[geary126]

Thanks Cruising Dad.

The funny thing is, after getting home and taking two showers, pretty much everybody I ran into knew about the hot water on the hose.

Old Navy Retail Clerk" Welcome to Old Navy! Hey, don't forget the hot water for that hose on the boat...

Okay, writer's embellishment, but this neighbor knew, my dad knew, my mom knew...and all got a laugh at the two hour wressling match I underwent...

 

[SailNet Archive]

I am surprised that everyone is telling you to the leave the waste line on. The last time I changed out a head, (about two years ago), I replaced all of the hoses with the stuff that is supposed to fight odors. Suprisingly it worked and did reduce the odors. As for getting the hoses on....(I can hear the jokes coming), I used a bit of Vaseline. It actually worked well. But the hot water thing sounds intriguing.

 

[Cruisingdad]

Hey Surf and G126,

I have not owned a 30, but from my recollection, access to get the hoses in/out is an absolute nightmare. That is why I recommended not cutting it/replacing... otherwise, replace all of them.

Surf (& all), remember us talking about the pros/con's of the typical production cruiser versus a... Valiant, for example. Catalina is guilty of (though they all do it I am convinced): Stamp, we made the hull. Stamp, the liner. Stamp, the wiring and hoses (head hose, in our example). Stamp, the furniture, top, etc. etc. The benefit of that methodology is you can make lots of boats quickly and thus vastly reduce costs.

Now, let me tell you how Valiant, for example, does it. Bam, hull. Furniture. Basic rigging. THEN, send in the plummers, the electricians, etc. This makes the boat longer in production and thus a more expensive vessel. I asked Valiant why they did this (before I knew better). They replied: "Because, if we put them all in after the fact, our theory is that the owner can get to them all should the need arise."

Well, G126, I bet you can attest to that.

 

[SailNet Archive]

CDad: You know, now that mention it, it was a ***** getting it up and out. On my hunter, the pump out line went through the back of a closet that was paneled over. The waste line had about 6 feet that went under that same closet to the bilge to the holding tank. Fortunately, I had an expansive vocubulary that suited the circumstances and allowed me to blow off some frustration.

 

[Cruisingdad]

And people wonder where the phrase, "Curse like a sailor" comes from. They obviously have not owned a boat.

I remember specifically after the electric head got jammed with a matchbox car (courtesy of my son), just standing there and staring at it: Pot full of s***, bowl 3/4 full and water sloshing around, and thinking to myself, "Lord, why oh why do you test me like this?"

Brings up a lesson learned (which thankfully I did plan ahead): If your only head is electric, carry a back up manual that can be easily retro'd. Otherwise, carry a nice bucket or go meet your neighbors.

 

[sailingdog]

From what I've seen, electric heads are more trouble than they're worth. Especially, the electric versions that were "upgraded" manual heads, where the major design change is adding a motor to a pump.

Funny how everyone seemed to know that trick after the fact... hindsight is usually 20/20.

 

[geary126]

Well, on the home stretch tonight. While you guys relive the glory of neurosurgeries past, so to speak, I'd sure appreciate some notes on the depth instrument thread I posted. Basically, what is best route for depth / speed?

Debating ST 40 multi ...but do I have to have haul out for transducers? See thread. Merci.

 

[geary126]

NEWS UPDATE: WORK DAY #2, GEARY STILL HELD HOSTAGE BY IRATE HEAD.

Went back with stove, makings for hot water. And then the makeshift "pan" leaked. Net net, took off waste lines, but still hosed.

Or hose-less.

How much heat is too much heat? I tried a hose on...got half-way. And then was stuck again. had to cut it off.

 

[foxglove]

Boiling water

Geary 126;

Just boil the water and leave the hose in it long enough for it to soften. Then put a plier down inside the hose and stretch it in all directions being careful not to leave excessive bumps that might leak later. Get it as round as possible. Slip it over the barbs and pour some hot water over it with some towels underneath to catch the water. Tighen the clamps while still hot.

About the depth instrument. Remember my trick of wearing polarized sun glasses to read it. (that was the problem, correct?). The glasses remove the glare. It might save you some money.

 

[geary126]

Held Hostage: The Head Chronicles (day 22)

I NEED HELP, FOLKS. HERE'S THE UPDATE.

Okay, so I finished the damn thing. And it leaks.

Here's the issue. The Thru Hull (output) is in a lousy spot. 4 inches above the fitting is glass and wood, the what holds the main settee cushions.

On the old hose, which I stupidly elected to replace, they managed to get about a 110° turn in the hose, tight radius, but I couldn't pull that off with the uber stiff white 1.5 inch ID hose from West. It kept kinking.

So, ultimately, I resorted to a 90° fitting. Thus, 2" hose to 90° fitting. (four clamps, total) 15" hose to t fitting, four more clamps.

Now, admittedly, when I came back to the boat with the 90° fitting, I did notice that the hose fit over it without the usual heat-300 lbs of pressure, skinned knuckles, swearing in front of the kid routine. In short, it was not a tight connection. But I figured, 2 hose clamps on each side...would do the trick.

Wrong. That's where the leak is.

Thus, my options are, get another 90° fitting, one that is tight. But on further reflection, I hate all these sections and clamps. Sketches me out.

What I'd rather do is find a hose that's flexible enough to make a tight bend, thus reducing section / clamp count.

Suggestions, please!

 

[sailingdog]

Is this the raw water input or the head waste output line? If it is the waste output line, then you really don't want any sharp bends or elbows in it. as those make it far more likely to plug up. That is something you really want to avoid. Tight bends in hoses are basically a really bad idea in a sewage line, as the sharp bends tend to catch waste and such, and also make the line more likely to retain fluids, leading to hose permeation and boat stench.

Elbows are still more likely than straight sections to clog, but a solid elbow, beats a tight bend in a hose hands down.

 

[camaraderie]

I don't see anything wrong with a 90 degree bend in the pipe to your holding tank.A 90 degree plastic pipe will not collapse or cause problems like a hose will. It seems so me that you just need to get the right size and a tight fit. If it is very close, I would try a little silicon on the fitting before clamping the hose. There should be no pressure in the system so that might get your leak fixed if you just leave it set up for 24 hours before using. Has worked for me in the past. Of course...if you overfill the system and you do pressurized it...the sxxt could hit the settee!

 

[geary126]

This is all about the Waste Output...over the side. There's a T, with one hose to the holding tank. The thru hull , output, requires the sharp turn.

Right now, I have this white bulletproof West Marine sanitation hose...and it keeps kinking, every time I try the turn.

Thus, the retreat to the 90° poly elbow...with sanitation hose in and out.

 

[MikeinLA]

OK, I am now very afraid. In the aft cabin of my Cat 36 at this very moment sits a new Jabsco head and 9 feet of that white 8 bloody dollar a foot hose, ready for Wednesday when I plan to replace everything from the input line to the output thru hull. It all started with a leaky pump handle on the head. I was ready to buy a re-build kit, but the kit was 65 bucks and the whole head was $ 139, so I went for it. I figured it was a good idea to replace the hoses while I'm at it, so you and I are in the same boat (sorry). I've put in heads & changed macerator and other pumps before. It's just one of those nasty jobs that hopefully doesn't come up too often. Incidentally, you should try getting to and replacing the freshwater pump on a Cat 36 if you want a truly religious experience. By way of trying to help, I can make 2 suggestions. First, I always use a hair drier to soften the hose. I find that by the time the hose comes out of the boiling water and is cool enough to touch, it isn't stretchy anymore. Plus, the boiling water works on a free piece of hose, but if you're working on that last connection, with everything else connected, you can't get that last end into a pan of water. The hair drier can be applied right at the fitting and can often be used to soften the hose along the run to get a little bend into it. Second, since you mentioned an angle problem, I got this nifty new Jabsco diverter valve and the 2 ends (to holding tank & overboard) rotate to allow for a better fit. Not sure if this is your problem, but thought I'd throw it in just in case. By the time I get to mine, you'll be sipping a frosty feeling very proud of yourself. I'll be sure to relate my tale to give you a good laugh. Oh, and be sure to check the vent line from the top of your holding tank to the vent hole in the stanchion. These get plugged up relatively easily and a blocked vent will pressurize the system which is not a good thing. Have fun & good luck,

Mike

 

[sailingdog]

Oh, and be sure to check the vent line from the top of your holding tank to the vent hole in the stanchion. These get plugged up relatively easily and a blocked vent will pressurize the system which is not a good thing. Have fun & good luck,

Mike, you're the master of understatement.

 

[foxglove]

Last resort

I too had problems with the overboard discharge hose leaking. I pulled the hose off, plugged and shut off the waste thru-hull and went sailing. I sail in an area where overboard discharge is prohibited anyway so it all goes into the tank.

When, and if ever, I get to the sea, I'll redo the whole thing. But if you are pissing away (chuckles?) your weekends on the project, run it to the tank and go sailing.

 

[carlosthedog]

Inserting a 90

Soon I will go the same routine of replacing the hoses. I recently spent 3 hours rebuilding the head and spent $70 for the kit. And it still smells. I could of bought a new head for $150 and completed the job in under an hour. Oh well! now I know how to rebuild a head.

Back to your problem. The white no odor hose looks a lot like spaflex and I wonder if you could simply use a PVC 90 and glue the thing on? Has anyone else tried this?

 

[camaraderie]

Carlos...would never glue the hose on. When it comes time to remove it...and there will come a time to remove it...trust me!...you don't want it stuck on there too well! Recommend silicon putty...sticks, waterproof and comes off without too much effort.

 

[MikeinLA]

Well, the hard part's done! I got all the 1 1/2" Odorsafe hoses cut, fitted and clamped today. I swear if I ever meet Mr. Shields, I will take my left over piece of hose and beat him to death with it. What a pain it is to work with! I must say that I have improved the system though. The old Y valve was just hanging there buried under the settee by the holding tank. Instead of a Y, the new Jabsco diverter has the 2 "out" tubes able to run in a straight line side by side. I drilled another 2" hole in the bulkhead and was able to mount the diverter behind the head with both hoses running through the bulkhead. Now I can just reach down behind the head to change the flow and if there is ever a problem with the valve, I'll be able to detect it quicker and easier. I'm very pleased with this set-up. Changing the holding tank inlet to a 90 elbow gave me a mere 9" run from the Y valve to the tank on a level run. Now I just have to hook up the 3/4' hoses and vents and I'm done. Paging Mr. Shields.......

Mike

 

[sailingdog]

congrats... and I've sent a telegram to mr. shields, telling him to run.