# Cruising ICW on low budget



## NoQuarter79 (Mar 12, 2014)

My fiance and I plan to start heading south on the ICW to the Keys late August/ beginning of September from the Chesapeake Bay. Our boat is very primitive: no running water, no stove or microwave, no shore power. We would like to make this trip as cheaply as humanly possible. We intend on gathering a few more books about the ICW, and we have traveled north on it, from Stuart, FL to Beaufort, SC. We're just on the lookout for free anchorage spots, maybe local farmers markets any other tidbits of information you may have.

On a different note: We are also planning on bringing our one year old cat who has never set foot on a boat. Does anyone have any experience with turning a house cat into a boat cat? 

Thanks everyone!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

If things get bad you can eat the cat.

Download Active Captain that has all the anchorages. Oooops... Do you have a computer? 

I don't know about your end of the world but here in Manhattan Farmers Markets are by far the most expensive places to shop. Lettuce was $12 per QUARTER pound. Thats $105 per Kg!!! (Stand on head to view photo)


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## NoQuarter79 (Mar 12, 2014)

Ahaha, I'm from West Virginia so I imagine the prices would be extremely different. We will probably have a tablet for this trip, but I'm sure you can get Active Captain on that too.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I did West Palm Beach to Washington DC without spending penny on marinas or moorings, just plan your daily runs to finish at anchorages.

Below West Palm anchorages are few and far between until Miami and it is difficult to find places that allow dinghy landing. There are some very active threads on this topic.

South of Miami it gets easier until you get to Key West. I think the only place to anchor nowadays is North of Wisteria Island but this needs confirmation as it is a while since I have been there. 

Good anchorages are being turned into mooring fields. 

NB expect visits from the 'potty police' in Florida, make sure you are in total compliance with the holding tank rules and other nitpicking CG stuff.

I found a bicycle to be essential as many services are well away from the waterfront. The bike allowed me to get to the supermarkets which were much cheaper than the waterfront markets. Look for shrimpers and fisherman selling their catch direct. 

I hope you enjoy it, I did.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

You don't mention your experience level, nor if you're looking at any kind of time frame to complete the trip. Both would be helpful in offering advice. I'll also add that anything I say here isn't meant to be discouraging or dismissive, but simply to make you aware of what lies ahead.

Once you reach Beaufort, NC, most of the trip can be done in one day or overnight hops outside (this presumes you're experienced enough for open water and have the means to get accurate weather reports). The less time you spend getting there (and under sail), the less you're going to spend.

While you can certainly sail on the ICW, in many places it's rather (to my mind) impractical to do so, and since you're in a 25' boat, I assume you have an outboard w/5gal tank, so motoring can get expensive. This is where time frame comes into play, as sailing can result in not many miles under the keel on the ICW. And then there's the question of reaching a suitable anchorage by dark. Basically, it comes down to a question of miles versus hours. Each day needs to be well planned, with multiple options for when you stop (you don't need to push it to the max everyday).

With your minimal systems, you're probably going to find yourself stopping at a marina about once a week (at least) for provisions, a real shower, and doing laundry. Especially if you're not used to living grungy. (Oh, and you should already be getting the cat acclimated to boat life)

You'll need a dinghy, a sunshower, and a place for extra fuel and water. You'll also want something (if you don't have it) to at least boil water. A table-top grill (propane or charcoal) would also be useful. Also, a handheld VHF for communicating with bridges while at the wheel is handy. I use chartbooks (atlas sized books of charts) rather than individual ones, as they contain a lot of pertinent info you don't find on just a chart.

If you have a laptop (and a means to charge it), Cruisers Net (when you're near wifi) is a good resource for up to date info.

Mostly though, you can do it as inexpensively as you're comfortable with.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

NoQuarter79 said:


> On a different note: We are also planning on bringing our one year old cat who has never set foot on a boat. Does anyone have any experience with turning a house cat into a boat cat?
> 
> Thanks everyone!


We've met a fair number of cruising cats. Maybe start with kitty overboard drills? Really, just depends on the cat. Some do well, others don't. If yours is super freaked out by a car ride, I'd leave the poor thing with a friend or family.






Maybe get some ideas here, too - http://baileyboatcat.com/

Ralph


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah, I think it depends on the cat. 

We have two cats and we used to take them both camping, but as one aged out of kittenhood she started to get scared by every little thing and would freak out. No more camping for her.

I would definitely try out the cat on the water as soon as possible. Some cats will adapt, other might never. Best of luck!


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

NoQuarter79 said:


> On a different note: We are also planning on bringing our one year old cat who has never set foot on a boat. Does anyone have any experience with turning a house cat into a boat cat? !


Your cat is still young, a little younger would have been better. XO (the Wonder Cat) has been on board for 5 years without problem. Things to look for:

1) Some cats get sick on boats. If your cat starts throwing up a lot you have the same problem as people who get seasick.
2) Expect your cat to "hunker down" when underway. A wrapped up blanket stuffed in a corner, or some provision so that he/she feels safe is important. Early on XO would retire to his carry case, he liked the feeling of security.
3) You will need to tether your cat any time you go near a dock. They will rapidly make a shore excursion if you don't
4) In the beginning it is useful to trail a towel overboard when you are at anchor. One they fall in once or twice they will stop falling in. If they like to jump in that is another story.
5) Discourage places where they can't get a grip. XO liked to climb up on the solar panels - they are glass - he would just skid across. A liberal application of water in a spray bottle dissuaded him of this activity.

To your other question, with the right weather and staying close to shore you can take a 25 foot boat outside. It will be much faster and a lot cheaper since you will not be burning fuel. You also don't need to go into an inlet every night. If the wind is from the NW, W, or SW you can just snuggle up to shore and anchor. If you drag you will drag away from the beach. But it is really easier with 2 people to just go 24/7 and get it over with. To those who disagree I would point to my friend who solo circumnavigated on a 29 foot boat. It was done all the time in the dark ages before everyone got rich and boats got big.

Fair winds and following seas :-


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I would leave the cat on shore. The smell of cat poop, pee, or (the horror!) cat puke on a 25 foot boat in the summer would gag a maggot. And you bet that it WILL happen.


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

heading south for hurricane season.??


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## jhwelch (May 9, 2015)

Pick up a copy of Skipper Bob's Anchorage Guide. It shows most of the anchorages and all the bridges and their schedules. I've seen a few small boats with outboard motors make this trip. In a lot of places the currents will slow you up, so plan for a normal days' run and also for a place to stop sooner if you find you are not making a lot of progress.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Some cats will go and hide on passage.

Others like to find a good high spot to watch the waves.

N.B. I had a reef in so it was blowing 20 knt +


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

A cat rigged boat?


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I don't know about your end of the world but here in Manhattan Farmers Markets are by far the most expensive places to shop. Lettuce was $12 per QUARTER pound. Thats $105 per Kg!!! (Stand on head to view photo)


Expensive, yes but it is organic


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## CVAT (Apr 29, 2012)

I've seen Cat ketches, is this the elusive Cat sloop?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

misfits said:


> Expensive, yes but it is organic


How do you know? You trust because some bloke sets up a table with "Organic" written on a piece of paper?

Or maybe: farmer is about to harvest his $50 per pound lettuce and a aphid storm flies over from next door and the farmer is going to lose his whole crop... Does he stand by his ethics and get his car repossessed or does he squirt his crop?

Mind you, does Trader Joe stand at the back door of his shop and test lettuce leaves all day?


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## saillife (Jun 25, 2006)

Just an FYI. I have no dog in this fight but a lot of people think organic means no pesticides........

"Organically grown" food is food grown and processed using no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides. Pesticides derived from natural sources (such as biological pesticides) may be used in producing organically grown food.

from 
Organic Farming | Agriculture | US EPA


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Does he stand by his ethics and get his car repossessed or does he squirt his crop?"
Mark, not to say we don't have our share of whores and thieves in the Colonies...and a long proud tradition of them...but it ain't quite as bad as some parts of the world.
There are inspectors, and labs, and a whole infrastructure that many places just don't have. Local labs and bureaucrats. And they DO go around and buy lettuce and put bits of the leaves in gas chromatographs and other expensive machines to see if there are pesticides and heavy metals in them.
If Mr. Farmer is caught being dishonest? Yeah, he's going to be banned from participating in any of those markets (you don't just show up, like you might at a village square) and he's going to have a discussion with the judge, who will probably wind up taking his car and barn anyway.

It isn't all trust, there are mechanisms and agencies and private organizations that are all spread too thin, but they are out there blending in with the crowds.

And over in Long Island City, there's at least one big "organic farm" hiding on some warehouse roofs. And at least one restaurant in Brooklyn growing their own greens the same way. So one never knows.

If you really want to find out...buy one of those expensive lettuces, and have some of it tested. Used to be, a case of beer and a visit to any university lab (plenty of those in NYC) could get you a fast informal test, too.(G)


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> How do you know? You trust because some bloke sets up a table with "Organic" written on a piece of paper?


This is extremely off topic but it played into my organic post cause it brought back a memory I had forgotten about..

When we had the farm we had a dozen customers from the city that would come up to NH a couple of times a year to purchase free range pork & broilers from us. One couple was up picking up their order & I had a load of firewood in the dump truck scheduled for delivery. The client asked if I sold firewood, I replied yup & it's even organic

She about fell over, ran out to her husband saying they have organic firewood, can we buy some?

Here's your sign


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, technically...if it came from trees that were grown in pesticide-free soil, and no pesticides were applied to the trees...it probably would qualify as organic.

Folks can afford to drive six or eight hours to pick up their groceries...more power to 'em.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

First and foremost, ALL pesticides are biodegradable - it's required by federal law. Of course so is plutonium, but it takes about 70,000 years before it's no longer dangerous. And, just because someone is using cow or horse poop to fertilize their crops, doesn't make it safe. There have been many, many studies about this and dozens of articles published on the subject - take the time to read them - it's a real eye opener for those that sing the praises of organic grown foods. 

Good luck,

Gary


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## CVAT (Apr 29, 2012)

Being an nontraditional student at a University(read old dude on campus) I found it interesting when a fellow classmate proudly claimed she had given up all non-organic food. I laughed,she asked why. I asked what food she had eaten previously was inorganic? She replied most of it, again I laughed, she asked why? I simply stated that she must be a medical wonder to survive 20 years eating mostly inorganic, she looked confused, I told her to look up the definition of organic, inorganic, and non-organic, in a dictionary not on google, and preferably one with paper pages.

The next day she stopped me and accused me of pulling her leg the previous day, feigning innocence I said would I do that?

Mind you we are both students of the engineering college here at the university. So it not like I was picking on a drama major,not that being a drama major implies that you are less intelligent, more to the fact that since she is a engineering student and has had to take numerous math and science classes she should know better.

Thomas


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm getting confused 

Is the ICW organic?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> I'm getting confused
> 
> Is the ICW organic?


Only if you're burning bio-diesel...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

No, the ICW is entirely man-made and therefore not organic.

Plutonium is entirely natural and therefore organic. As is cyanide, which is present in apple seeds. A half cup of them should contain enough to kill you, but they're organic.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

The ICW doesn't have anything to do with organic. Plutonium is organic, but has nothing to do with the defined requirements for organic. Apple seeds may be organic, but most aren't.

Organic has defined meaning far as food goes. Natural food means, well nothing really.

I bet finding a McDonald's and eating off the value menu to have a meaningful item for cruising the ICW on a low budget. But it definitely isn't organic.

Other than McDonald's this has nothing to do with the thread.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Organic does not mean the same thing as natural. Plutonium is natural in the sense that it is a product of the splitting of uranium atoms, but organic means that it comes from living things - plants and animals. The latter meaning, referring to food products produced without the use of inorganic chemicals (fertilizers and pesticides), is just a secondary meaning of the word. English is an imprecise language in many ways.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Gotta love it when you hear an advertisement on the radio for sheets made with Organic Cotton. They claim that it is softer than non-organic cotton, and this justifies the $300 to $ 1,000 price tag for bedding sets. Holy $hit - it's a bed set, two sheets and two pillow cases - big whoop! I'll stay with my $29 non-organic cotton bed set - I sleep just fine on the Vee berth. Oh, and I have a great pillow that is made from synthetic down - best damned pillow I've ever slept upon. 

Keep in mind that if it were not for certain herbicides, pesticides, preservatives, and medical drugs, human lifespan would likely be about what it was in the stone ages - 25 years. It's like George Carlin once said during a standup skit about natural and organic foods, "Dog $hit is natural - just ain't real tasty!"

Gotta love George Carlin,

Gary


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

killarney_sailor said:


> Organic does not mean the same thing as natural. Plutonium is natural in the sense that it is a product of the splitting of uranium atoms, but organic means that it comes from living things - plants and animals. The latter meaning, referring to food products produced without the use of inorganic chemicals (fertilizers and pesticides), is just a secondary meaning of the word. English is an imprecise language in many ways.


Language is an imprecise language


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Smurf, my wife and I were talking about that tonight - the English language. For some strange reason, man has never really been able to communicate with the female of the species very well. Same holds true for lots of other things. Sometimes I wonder how we survived this long, eating all those nasty chemicals. Then, you look at the history of things and come to the stark realization that without those chemicals we would not even be alive. Think about it!

All the best,

Gary


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Talk about thread drift.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

It would seem that eating "organic" food would not be consistent with cruising the ICW on a low budget. However, eating inorganic food seems like an oxymoron. Does anyone see a dilemma here?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Words are so often used to manipulate the listener/reader that the actual meaning is undecipherable. Poetry comes close to expressing real intended meaning. Even scientific publications are "yellowed" by the goals of the researcher. Think Bill Clinton when considering the misleading use of words. Politicians and lawyers (one in the same) manipulate words as a profession. So, "organic" has essentially NO meaning to me. It has about the same truth in it as "global warming."


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^And the wind is free to boot.


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## NoQuarter79 (Mar 12, 2014)

Well our plans have been foiled anyways. I guess we'll wait until next spring so something else can go wrong and all my hopes and dreams can be crushed again, like they were this time, for the second year running. Thanks anyways guys, even though this thread had nothing to do with cruising the ICW on a low budget.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

NoQuarter79 said:


> Well our plans have been foiled anyways. I guess we'll wait until next spring so something else can go wrong and all my hopes and dreams can be crushed again, like they were this time, for the second year running. Thanks anyways guys, even though this thread had nothing to do with cruising the ICW on a low budget.


Well, if you still want to go, I can pick you up on my way down the bay in October. I'll probably be stopping somewhere around the mouth of the Rappahannock and holing up near White Stone Bridge for a night before heading down to Hampton, where I'll drop my son off.

All the best,

Gary


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## NoQuarter79 (Mar 12, 2014)

As much as we appreciate that, Gary, we are currently in WV, and I'm not sure you'll be coming through there, haha. We had to come back to WV in the winter of 2013 because we couldn't make it south yet and it was too cold to live aboard, and ever since then every time we try to get back **** happens and keeps us stuck here. Pardon my language, but I am really starting to lose hope, and becoming depressed working as a cashier for $8 an hour trying to work towards our goals. It's an impossible task when you're working for minimum wage. ($8/hr is minimum wage in WV)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Oh well, I guess I'll have to accept the offer of those 2 hot honeys that want to ride with me to the Florida Keys.

Good luck, and I hope you get to make the trip one day in the not too distant future,

Gary


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

travlineasy said:


> Oh well, I guess I'll have to accept the offer of those 2 hot honeys that want to ride with me to the Florida Keys.
> 
> Gary


Hey Gary! Please tell them if they need a hot shower I have one waiting for them in West Palm Beach! ....ok, on a serious note, I have an extra guest room and shower if needed as you pass by Singer Island! I'll even buy the drinks!

Best,
doo


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Just might take you up on that shower and drinks.  If ya see on old codger on the ICW with a couple hotties and sippin a Green Coconut Margaretta in the cockpit of a wide assed old Morgan 33 OI, you'll know I made it! 

All the best,

Gary


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Those in the dark ages / middle ages ate nothing but (what we now call) 'organic' foods .... and had an average lifespan of 40-45 years. The problem was that there simply wasnt enough of it to sustain the population; hence, the quite valid reason for modern day 'chemical/GMO food'.


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## WharfRat (Aug 4, 2015)

A while back there was reference here to an obscure little book called _Gunkholing the Ditch_ which sounds exactly what you intended. Not sure how you might find a copy though.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

travlineasy said:


> Just might take you up on that shower and drinks.  If ya see on old codger on the ICW with a couple hotties and sippin a Green Coconut Margaretta in the cockpit of a wide assed old Morgan 33 OI, you'll know I made it!
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Gary


lol....I'll keep a lookout! Give me a shout on the radio....i usually keep it on in the evenings to listen to port traffic.


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