# the water in your tanks



## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

As one of my winter projects I removed a non-functioning foot pump for the sink in the head, took it home and disassembled it in preparation for a rebuild.

What I discovered disgusted me. The crud and slime that had accumulated on every internal surface of that pump convinced me that I would _never_ drink from the "potable" water system. It looked more like the bottom of a bowl of soup in a Japanese restaurant than drinking water. I don't care how much bleach I pump through it (or vodka, as some seem to prefer), there is no way I am going to drink that stuff without boiling it first.

You might want to disassemble one of your pumps in order to have a look...


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Our manual foot pump is for seawater, don't have any manmual pumps for drawing water from our 140 gal freshwater tank. We never drink any onboard water anyway - only used for bathing, cleaning, boiling. Every other consumption use comes from spring water gallons we store onboard.

I have to admit though, whenever I pump the foot lever after haulout to clear the line for winter storage, there is a very strong sulphur smell, with an overlying organic decay odor . . . from sea creatures which have died in the lines.


----------



## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

I remember an episode of Jacques Cousteau where they were exploring a large lake on the African continent. The explorers were using some water purification filters to get drinking water from the lake, explaining how bad the parasites were. Then the camera panned over to the shoreline and showed the local kids playing in the water and drinking straight from the lake.

I think our bodies can handle a lot more than our minds have been conditioned for and that if the water in your tanks hasn't made you sick before, you'll still be fine, even though it may never quite taste the same again.


----------



## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm not trying to be flippant, but if you didn't like what you saw in your foot pump, NEVER EVER go to a water treatment plant. Clean is a very relative term, you will always get gunk built up in areas where the flow channel for water is not perfectly smooth. Pumps are always gross, keeping on top of your maintenance and sanitizing your water system regularly will help slow the buildup but nothing can stop it. If the water has that nice slightly chlorinated smell when it comes out of the tap it should be just fine to drink. If it doesn't, add some chlorine to your system (around 12 drops per gallon if it is totally untreated). Just remember, it tastes ok now, but if you decide you want it really really clean and load up your water system with disinfectants and soaps and crap your water will taste like dawn dish soap forever! So, use, don't abuse those cleaning agents.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Generally, I don't use the "potable" water from my tanks for anything but washing. I carry bottled water for drinking and cooking purposes.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

a couple of drops of chlorine bleach in your tank on fillup (not the whole bottle) does wonders for bacteria. theres also a solution for purification of water upon filling your tank, cant remember the name offhand. my dock neighbor drinks straight out of his tank daily...oh yeah, did i mention he's 86 years old and healthy. but i'm with SD on the bottled stuff


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Great minds think alike.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

We cleaned the tanks and shock treated the lines in ours and had reasonably good water...but we always drank from bottles. We did use tank water for cooking and filtered it through a PUR water filter...it ran out a lot quicker than our municipal filter used to!! I wouldn't drink from any tank without a good filter system!!


----------



## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Oh heck, that's why we have teeth, to strain out the really big chunks.


----------



## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Have been drinking the water from our water tanks for the past 25 years. Our CS is 20 years old and the tanks and lines, all original, are fine. I've filled it from cisterns and wells over the years. Maybe I've been lucky but I've got enough stuff aboard without taking up good beer storage space with bottled water!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm... EWWW... Gross...


erps said:


> Oh heck, that's why we have teeth, to strain out the really big chunks.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

erps said:


> Oh heck, that's why we have teeth, to strain out the really big chunks.


we're talking about the water tank...not the holding tank

nice boat and video erps!


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I watched the city flush the fire hydrant in front of my house. Holy Sh*t. It was sandy brown for a while until it flowed clear. They said all pipes look like that. Glad I have a whole house filter plus extra filtration for drinking water.


----------



## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

OK, I really tried hard to keep quiet, but I can't I'm sorry so if you already have heard someone rant against bottled water, please just ignore this post.

First, go here:

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/water/bottled

This site does a good job of explaining the basic arguments against bottled water.

But here's my personal version. I am a fifth generation civil engineer with a background in water and wastewater treatment. From an engineering standpoint, the requirements and testing required for tap water are bordering on insanity and only getting more strict. Currently in Michigan, we are technically "depolluting" the water that comes out of our wastewater treatment plant. It is so clean it could be turned around looped back into the system and recycled, but we don't like to hear that we are drinking our own waste so it doesn't happen. The regulations are so strict in fact that in some cases the regulations for tap water actually exceed the limitations of detection!!!!! Whereas in many of these same chemicals regulation is non-existent in the bottled water industry.

When people put filters on their tap systems they are actually making the water worse for them. Most communities put flouride and other treatments into their water that are incredibly helpful for your body.

And the worst part of it all is I just filled up my gas tank for $3.30 a gallon!!! and guess what, in many cases that is still cheaper than bottled water. If you got the same water for yourself from a tap it would cost you somewhere on the order of about $0.0001 or less per gallon, for a better product.

Ok, that's my rant. Really sorry for those of you who have heard this/considered and accepted it or rejected it before.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

rennisaint-

There's a big difference from the water that comes out of the tap from a major municipal water system, and the water that comes out of the tap on a small sailboat, that may have been sitting in a tank for a few weeks, or longer. Bottled water is a far better bet in terms of being safely potable.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Also...foreign water ain't US water...take a swig in the DR if ya don't believe me...I guarantee that within 24 hours you will! (g)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cam-

Tell us how you know... 


camaraderie said:


> Also...foreign water ain't US water...take a swig in the DR if ya don't believe me...I guarantee that within 24 hours you will! (g)


----------



## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

IMHO a water storage system was put there for a reason and if you aren't using it because you can't take the time to do proper maintenance by adding disinfectant occasionally, you may as well motor because you can't be bothered to fix or maintain your shredded sails. But again, I am a civil engineer so this gets me all riled up, I can understand people taking water systems for granted and it being easier to use bottled water. But then why not rip out your tanks and get more storage?


----------



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

I'll go with Vasco.

I have taken water from rain tanks in Madagascar, municipal water in Mozambique, the Seychelles, mountian stream water from Bora Bora. I even took some water from an old ship that was anchored for a longish time in Rarotonga.

We have habitually used it for washing, bathing, drinking, cooking, everything. The only "pollution" we have ever had is from a bad O ring that got salt water into my deck fitting and turned the tank into brine. We have never had a sick person on our boat, from "bad" water or any other reason.

Now you can say we've been lucky but after two or more decades of this stuff, how lucky can you get?

We had a maid when we lived in Africa who (by choice) ate food that we would never touch and she maintined that the reason it never made her ill was because she and all of her tribe had over the years built antibodies that protected them. They ate gross stuff and never got sick.

The same goes for water. I reckon the longer one protects himself from the possibility of sickness from water, the more prone he becomes to negative reaction.

The only place we never took water on was in Nuku Hiva (Marquesas) where we bowed to local knowledge that said don't touch it. The other thing that we often do is use a water purifier tablet or fluid like Miltons or some other form of bleach. We've never used chlorine.

We live by the old rule "if it don't smell or taste right, don't drink it". The fact is that if the local people drink it and recommend it, it'll not kill you.

Cheers (excuse the pun)
Andre


----------



## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Water bottles on a cruise of more than a day or two are impractical. Use a little bleach and a seagull water filter for drinking. 

If your water smells like rotten eggs you have a problem with sulfur bacteria, but it probably won't hurt you. But sulfur bacteria produces a slime and can promote the growth of other bacteria, so I would drain the tanks and use more bleach and then drain again.


----------



## fcsob (Apr 28, 2007)

We use pool chlorine to shock our tank. No linguring after taste. We also installed a GE hone water filter,taste fine.


----------



## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

Just a note concerning Bleach or Chlorine in your tanks.. If you have a watermaker, with a back flush system, you'll destroy the membrain in a second..
I service and sell SPECTRA water systems and the new units have a flush system built into them, Instead of pickling the system, it flushes every week or so.. And bleach or Chlorine added into the tanks, will cost you money...........
We also for drinking water, fill 2, of the 6 gallon plastic jugs set aside for that purpose.....


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, one of the major reasons I prefer bottled water is the fact that several four-gallon bottles are much harder to contaminate all at once than a large single tank. Having separate sources of water can be very important if one gets contaminated. 

I don't have a problem with taking on water from water supplies of known quality.... or spot-treating water that may be slightly questionable. However, most potable water systems on smaller boats need to be used on a very regular basis or they'll start to grow slime inside them. 

One thing that can help is pre-filtering the water. I've used a Brita-type filter to pre-filter the water before bottling it, and the water stays pretty clean for a long time.

As Randy points out, Chlorine is a bad thing if you have an RO watermaker.


----------



## trecksail (Dec 2, 2004)

*water*

I'll admit that it's been a while since I can rember drinking much tap water. In my teens, I did a stint with the local water department. Digging out and installing new piping. I'm sorry to have to ruin anyones day, but, you can go and dig up any water pipe in any town and there will be a half inch of scum lining the entire interior surface.

Now, even worse news. There are websites that will show you how water is bottled and compare it's contents to tap. There is basically no difference and in some cases tap is found to be "cleaner".

Now even worse news. Go to any major "distribution center", warehouse or whatever that supplies 99% of the food for your local grocery stores. I've been there as well. There can not be more than a few places in the entire world which could contain such nightmarish quantities of vermin.

It all looks pretty on the grocery cooler, with the nice little fine mist hissing down on it every few minutes. But if you really think about it, they would have to use massive amounts of poison in the warehouses that all that produce is shipping through, which is not real high on the epa's rating system.

Even worse, for many packaged food products, the fda has written maximum limitations for vermin excrement and body parts.

Eating dirt and worms as kids may be the only reason our antibodies have allowed us to live as long as we have. We like to believe we are living in a technologically advanced sterile world, but the reality is we are not. It's all window dressing.


----------



## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

*Seagull Filters?*

I've always used the water tanks for showering, washing dishes, etc and used bottled water for drinking, but I've not yet cruised past the Bahamas. For extended cruising, how good are the Seagull Filters? Have any of you had good experience with them? They are a bit pricey, but if they're good enough, it'd be nice to do away with the bottled water and use the space for other stores.


----------



## leecarlson (May 13, 2006)

*Aqua Salveo*

Does anyone have any experience with a product called Aqua Salveo, from South Africa? It's supposed to do everything bleach does, and more, to clean out water systems, while being totally non-toxic and harmless to tanks, lines, pumps, etc.

Found out about it from a South African Crusing website, called Cruising Connections. Figure those South African boys & girls know a thing or two about sailing. They have a whole page on the stuff, which they sell.

Unfortunately, since I'm a newbie with fewer than 10 posts, Sailnet doesn't allow me to include web addresses, but you can Google both Aqua Salveo and Cruising Connections and find their websites.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, and it also will make you deck shine and the non-skid sticky... right... It's snake oil for cruising sailors. Generally, most things that are strong enough to disinfect drinking water is going to be somewhat caustic or toxic in some way. Iodine is, Hydrogen Peroxide is, Chlorine bleach most definitely is.

The people who make it have also spammed sailnet with their product website previously...so I'd be careful about saying much about it... they have a pretty bad rep on this site at this point in time.

In fact, the reason you can't post a link until you have ten posts is an anti-spamming feature that was setup to prevent fly-by spamming with web links, and it seems to be working quite nicely.



leecarlson said:


> Does anyone have any experience with a product called Aqua Salveo, from South Africa? It's supposed to do everything bleach does, and more, to clean out water systems, while being totally non-toxic and harmless to tanks, lines, pumps, etc.
> 
> Found out about it from a South African Crusing website, called Cruising Connections. Figure those South African boys & girls know a thing or two about sailing. They have a whole page on the stuff, which they sell.
> 
> Unfortunately, since I'm a newbie with fewer than 10 posts, Sailnet doesn't allow me to include web addresses, but you can Google both Aqua Salveo and Cruising Connections and find their websites.


----------



## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

All drinking water should be cool, clear, crisp in taste and at least 80 proof.


----------



## leecarlson (May 13, 2006)

I wasn't planning on promoting the product, just wanted to give the website so others might be able to read about it and weigh in on whether the product's claims sounded reasonable or not. 

I'm well aware of the traditional treatment for growth in water tanks (chlorine shock treatment), but I was recently captain of a yacht whose owner had a very expensive/fancy pool at his estate with a German system that used careful PH monitoring and state-of-the-art non-chlorine chemicals to eliminate micro-organisms, and it was much more pleasant than a chlorine pool, so I thought perhaps there might be new advances in water treatment that are better than the old chlorine shock treatment. I've seen other products that claim to kill growth through metal ionization (such as Aqua Salveo) or other chemicals, such as Starbrite Water Conditioner which uses Glutaraldehyde. (Plastimo has Puriclean, but I can't seem to find a Materials Data Sheet on the product that says what it uses). As far as I know, however, metal ionization treatment usually requires an active electric current and water recycling system, at least in pools.

Of course, the best thing are probably the Seagull filters, but they are expensive (to say the least), and without cleaning the tanks, the growth will continue and clog the filters more quickly anyway....


----------



## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

I didn't want to start a new thread, but this past week-end I drained and cleaned both of my water tanks and thought I would pass along something that wasn't mentioned in this one. In order to get as much water as possible out of the tanks, I used a wet vac to clear out the bottom. It also sucked up most of the crud that was lingeringing in the tanks. After repeatedly filling and draining a gallon or so of clean water, I was able to get almost all of the crud out and the water was clear and didn't smell. After filling the tanks, I added the water purifying tablets, but I still bring gallon jugs of tap water on board for drinking. Its just nice to have relatively clean water for everyhting else. Next year I may use a small power washer (water only) to clean the insides even more thoroughly.


----------



## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

*Seagull Filter*



micksbuddy said:


> I've always used the water tanks for showering, washing dishes, etc and used bottled water for drinking, but I've not yet cruised past the Bahamas. For extended cruising, how good are the Seagull Filters? Have any of you had good experience with them? They are a bit pricey, but if they're good enough, it'd be nice to do away with the bottled water and use the space for other stores.


I always drank the tank water on Billy Ruff'n, but the women in the family (who outnumber me 3 to 1) refused. So, we always took along a large quantity of bottled water --- UNTIL --- I got the SeaGull IV filter and we did blind taste testing. The women, unable to tell the difference, finally relented and we've done away with bottled water. The filters are expensive (~$70), but they will process +/- 1000 gal or so and can last more than one season if they're cared for in the off-season (ask SeaGull for instructions).

One other issue to consider: SeaGull says the filter requires about 25# of pressure, if I remember correctly. I had an old fresh water pressure pump that would come on at 5# and shut down at around 20 psi. I ended up replacing the pump with one of the new variable speed pumps that will deliver 40-50 psi. It works like a champ, but on passages water consumption becomes an issue because the pressure is so high.

My guess is the SeaGull filter will work OK with less than 25 psi, especially if all you're using it for is drinking water, it will just take longer to fill the glass.


----------



## dwightgry (Dec 5, 2007)

primerate84 said:


> I didn't want to start a new thread, but this past week-end I drained and cleaned both of my water tanks and thought I would pass along something that wasn't mentioned in this one. In order to get as much water as possible out of the tanks, I used a wet vac to clear out the bottom. It also sucked up most of the crud that was lingeringing in the tanks. After repeatedly filling and draining a gallon or so of clean water, I was able to get almost all of the crud out and the water was clear and didn't smell. After filling the tanks, I added the water purifying tablets, but I still bring gallon jugs of tap water on board for drinking. Its just nice to have relatively clean water for everyhting else. Next year I may use a small power washer (water only) to clean the insides even more thoroughly.


Been there, done that. Tell us in a few weeks how clean the tanks still are. Mine just returned to the growth inside. Perhaps a bit more rigorous cleaning regimen is in order. I like the idea of a small pressure washer, tho.


----------



## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

I was at the boat this past week-end and although the water was still clear, the "tank odor" was back. Next year I think I'll try the vodka rinse before filling.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

prime...did you do the shock treatment with bleach per above? It will work!


----------



## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

No I didn't do the bleach, but I will try it when I have to refill later in the summer. If I remember reading another thread about bleach, I thought it was bad to allow into the holding tank, but I could drain it into a pail from one of the sinks and intercept it before it gets to the holding tank.


----------



## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

For drinking/coffe-making water from Paloma's water tanks, I ran a second water line (I put in a Y) and ran the second line to a foot pump at the galley sink (the primary water line goes through the pressure water system) then up through a standard home refrigerator icemaker in-line filter, then to a separate bar sink type faucett. All the filtered water we need. I change the in-line filter once a year, at the same time I clean out both water tanks.


----------



## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Why don't the tanks come with a way to open them on the bottom with a bottom that slopes towards the opening so that you can just drain all the junk out of it ? Or is it just me, maybe that's a stupid question.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Prime...sorry...thought you were talking about potable water from your post #30. Bleach does not belong in holding tanks or system. 
If you have tank odor from your holding tanks...the likely culprit is the hoses rather than the tanks. Replace them with the best stuff you can buy.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cam-

I think Prim is talking about the potable water tank, at least initially, since he would be draining it at the sinks... the holding tank better not be plumbed into the sink faucets. 

Prime-

On 99% of the boats, the water from the sinks drain overboard, via an above water through-hull, not into the holding tank. Generally, the only thing that drains into a holding tank is the HEAD. BTW, some boats are plumbed so that you can flush the head using the contents of a sink, which makes winterizing it much simpler. 

Wind—

draining the tank wouldn't really help all that much, since the gunk is usually growing on the walls of the tanks and inside the hoses, not floating in the water.


----------



## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

SD-The PO removed the hose that drains the sinks overboard and capped the throughhull. He then diverted the sink drains into the holding tank-why, I don't know. I discovered it when we needed to pump out frequently our first year. I plan on reconnecting the sinks to the throughhull this fall. In any case, I will be trying some additional methods next spring to really clean the water tanks.

Thanks for your comments, though.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That was really dumb of him.... BTW, I did say 99%... your boat is in the 1%. 


primerate84 said:


> SD-The PO removed the hose that drains the sinks overboard and capped the throughhull. He then diverted the sink drains into the holding tank-why, I don't know. I discovered it when we needed to pump out frequently our first year. I plan on reconnecting the sinks to the throughhull this fall. In any case, I will be trying some additional methods next spring to really clean the water tanks.
> 
> Thanks for your comments, though.


----------



## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

*Sink drains, above or below the waterline?*

I was looking at a boat recently that appeared to have the sink drains plumbed to below-the-waterline thru hulls. Is that common, and is it a bad thing? I'm used to drains going to above-the-waterline thru hulls as SD mentioned. Just curious.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Not generally a good idea, since the hose becomes a siphon risk if the hose breaks loose at the sink bottom. You're really better off having the sink drain through-hulls above the water line by at least six inches. If they're closer to the waterline than six inches, they really need a seacock in them IMHO.


micksbuddy said:


> I was looking at a boat recently that appeared to have the sink drains plumbed to below-the-waterline thru hulls. Is that common, and is it a bad thing? I'm used to drains going to above-the-waterline thru hulls as SD mentioned. Just curious.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*water systems*

SD:
How do you do a bleach shock treatment to the water tank? I keep seeing it mentioned but have not heard how to perform it.

My water system was formerly fine last fall, but who knows when I set sail this summer.

Thanks.

Astoria
S/V Doodles
C&C 27


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

From another website, from the guru of the Marine Head... Peggy Hall.



> *Peggie Hall has the 8 ounce solution*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------

