# Help me build a windvane



## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

I have been looking for a windvane but i havent been able to find any used vanes under around 1500 or so so i have decided to build one myself does anyone know hopw i can go about doing it. like plans step by step instructionms materials etc or a website or book would be appresciated thanks oh and the boat is a contest 30 the original one with the doghouse so loa around 30 feet 6 inches without the bowsprit and displacement loaded around 10 000 pounds maybe a bit more long fin keel large heavy skeg mounted rudder its a masthead rig just if it helps to know its not fractional


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

I've seen plans online to build them out of PVC, perhaps you could make it work by using different material.

On review, the bookmark I have is no longer functional. 

Sorry.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's a book you can download free that explains all types of vane steering:
http://windpilot.com/n/pdf/bookeng.pdf

Look at the Norvane as well. It is well made, gets good reviews, and is not too far out of your budget. NORVANE Self-Steering Wind Vane. Stainless steel, servo-pendulum. Powerful, sturdy and reliable for sailboats 20' to 60'


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## LakeSuperiorGeezer (Oct 8, 2010)

Wind-Vane Self-Steering by Bill Belcher is out of print but used copies are available through Amazon for $40+ The book tells how to do it yourself.


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

thanks everyone i think ill get the book, and check out the one online too. Do you know what the difficulty levelin building is for somone with no real engineering or math backround would it be relativelly straightforward. and again thanks for the suggestions sounds like a good start.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

How is your machining ability, and access to tools? Got a lathe? Milling machine? Drill press? Access to raw materials? Metal casting ability? Bronze, stainless steel, UHMW? Can you tig weld? If not maybe you could find an old frozen Monitor, or Aries that would be easier to repair than re inventing the thing. I have all the tools, materials, and ability, I still bought a Hydrovane....


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

id say nonexistent i mean ive never worked with metal before, unless soldering electrical connections count, so im guessing thT MEns i ahould go the used route but what is the cheapest i could get a windvane for that i could repair, a few hundred i suppose, but where do these get old all ive seen is used monitors for upwards of 3 grand and i have about 1500 to budget max but in all honesty thts me stretching it if it were a few hundred id be much happier. as dor tools i could always rent them or borrow from a friend im oretty sure i know somone who might have them btw does it have to be made out of metal or could i mold one in fiberglass with hardwood coring


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Most monitors I have seen used as well as other brands for reasonable prices need re-building. 

You could certainly mold the rudder blade out of fiberglass but that is the easy part - it is the mechanism that is complicated and needs stainless or aluminum as well as smooth bearings. For any welding there are competent shops that can do that for you. Many home made vanes I have heard about take quite a bit of fiddling to get right.

Go through the book I linked to - it is very complete and explains all types of vane gear - decide what might be best for your boat and budget from that.


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Walt Murray's website | Mister Vee wind vane self steering


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

i actually breezed thru it yesterday and i got the impression that the mechanism for a vertical or a servo pendulum seems pretty simple although i di only skim it, if i do choose to rebuild one where can i find them im thinking maybe rebuilding a navik because they seem cheaper or one of those discontinued vanes from the 70s but the thing about that book is it didnt have as much on how to build it as how it worked but yes from the book i got that having a long shoal fin and a skeg mounted inboard rudder pretty much i can go with anything exceot a trim tab and im inclined to go towards either a vertical or a servo pendulum vane because they have better damping than a horizontal vane now from the looks of it all i have realy is a giant propeler type thing with a rudder on one end and a wind blade on the other that when it is pushed tugs on the tiller or have i got it wrong


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

how are the mister vanes and since they own navik what about a used navik vane


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

This may help explain how a servo-pendulum vane gear works. Generally accepted as the most efficient.
NORVANE Self-Steering Wind Vane. Stainless steel, servo-pendulum. Powerful, sturdy and reliable for sailboats 20' to 60'


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't think they own Navik - they are out of business. But they do supply parts they make for the Navik.

Here's a good explanation of Navik from Scanmar, who used to sell it - they make the Monitor.
http://www.selfsteer.com/products/navik/index.php


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

maybe its a little more complicated than i thought so the idea is if it veers of course the wind pushes against the paddle which turns the gear which in turn both turnes the tiller and adjusts the trim tab...hmm it does sound rather difficult to design myself would i save anymoney designing by hand vs repairing a frozen up one anyways if not or not dsignificant then i might as welll search for a frozenn navik it seems small and simple enough to be cheap but strong enough to be reliable but where can i look for one i checked craigslist and kijiji and the chandelry where i live wont actually sell anything usefull although if u ever feel the need to have a 14 inch chartplotter they do have those and my boat lives rather in the middle of nowhere atm so no good chandlery or consignemtn store there either and i checked ebay too


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## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

Hey

Below is a forum dedicated to the topic, windvanes and the building of them;
Cruising Sailor • View forum - Windvane Forum

Walt's site is very worth-while, sadly he passed away several years ago so the site is an archive, not an on-going/regularly updated site of his work.

Good luck.

John


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

With a Servo pendulum vane, the airvane is set when you are on course. As the boat moves off course the airvane pivots down to one side or the other. When this happens the paddle in the water turns and the force of the boat's movement against the paddle swings it to one side or the other, creating the force to bring the boat back on course with the lines to the tiller.


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

oh ok so pretty much the lines are attached to the in water part of the gear, which is in turn connected by a gear to the airfoil, that makes sense so how does that compare to the vertical vane and why is it better like for example a hasler according to theat book is a vertical vae and it looks simmilar except without the gear thing


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

and oh ill be sure to check that forum out


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## micheck (Sep 29, 2010)

Might also look at John Letcher's "Self-Steering for Sailing Craft" - long out of print but I got one from Amazon's used books; he covers the engineering part and shows many simple ways to accomplish self-steering including wind vanes


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The early Hasler vanes were vertical pivot on the vane. Most like the Monitor, Norvane, and many others use a horizontal pivot which is more sensitive in light winds and the vane can be smaller as a result. Here is a picture of a Norvane on a 28' Triton and while you can't see the entire unit you can see that the wind blade is quite small but it is very effective in lighter winds. Below it is a distance shot of the same vane on a CT34.


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

oh ok so vertical pivot is a bad idea then i figured i once saw one and it was relatively cheap but maybe not if illl be hand steering most of theime except in moderate storms then, and the light winds thing is very important for my boat because she is very very slooow only having sailed her twice i can even figure that one out when there are 25- 30 knots of wind i fly the 150 genoa and full main and only then does she reach her hull speed but as for where to find a windvane where do u suggest provided i do wanna get the cheapest one i can even if it requires some fixing


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The windvane forum linked to earlier is one choice. Join and post what you are looking for.

Also Craigs List, but look far and wide as it is unlikely you will find one close to you. Any marine consignment shop in a sailing city should be checked as well.


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

im located in toronto so plenty of ports along the shore here it would be nice to be able to get one with mounting brackets for my boat over here so i dont have to steer byu hand all the way from georgian bay but i have checked craigslist but ill check all along the great lakes and the eastern provinces and i shall check that forum im not looking to buy this moment but id like a sense of where to buy when i have the money for it but thanks for the ideas ill check around here to see if anyones selling one


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

found a navik for 600 bucks and a aries for 500 which one should i go for


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

If the Aries is complete and in good shape I would lean that way. Aries used several different metals and there is the possible risk of corrosion from that. Also, no matter what you buy you will need to make or modify mounts.

If you want it to bring the boat from GeorgIan Bay I would suggest an electric autopilot. There will be lots of motoring to do and it would be nice not to stuck on the tiller too much.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I can vouch for the Norvane. Bought one new and installed a couple of years ago. It works well as long as the helm is balanced. The principles of how it operates are pretty straightforward but there is obviously a LOT of engineering involved to make something like this actually work reliably and not fall apart in short order. The tuning of them is pretty fine and they take a lot of constant stress when working. There are a many things I'd attempt to build from scratch...this isn't one of them. By the time you bought all the s.s., pillow blocks, bushings, etc. there probably would not be much in the way of savings. To me this is too essential a piece of gear to experiment with. Good luck building one. Please do some follow up posts to let us know how it works out.

The operation is determined by wind on the vane. Vane is adjusted to be balanced upright in the apparent wind with helm on a course. When vane is pushed over because boat gets at an angle to wind, off the course, the vane turns the rack and pinion type gear which turns the rudder at an angle to the current. The rudder shaft with a pivot point at deck level pivots back and forth moving the control lines attached at the top of this rudder arm. So the force of the water on the rudder is what moves the lines which are attached to the wheel (drum) or tiller.


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

I built a prototype based on the Walt Murray designs, and you can see all (edit: some of) the moving parts via this link: DIY self steering wind vane for sailboat - YouTube.

Looking back on it I'm embarrassed by the flimsy build quality. The hinge that twists the oar in the water broke as soon as I reached the Sound. I'm nearly finished building the Mark-II, which is sturdier built using pipes-within-pipes rather than the whole PVC-and-wood-platform-with-little-hardware-bits-setup. If it works as well as I hope, I'll post some design specs. There's a lot of "ingenuity" (read: hopeful engineering) in it though, so we'll see.

Good luck!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think a boat like yours would self-steer pretty easily so long as you can balance the sails wel. The 'cheapest' way to steer would be using the sheet to tiller methods described in Letcher's book mentioned earlier. All you need are a couple of small blocks, a bit of line and some bungee material or better, some surgical tubing. The basic principle is that you transmit pull from a bight you take in a sheet to the tiller. He suggest one method when on the wind (using the jibsheet as I remember) and a different one (using the mainsheet) when off the wind. I had some success with this method on a Hughes 22 which was a pretty squirelly little boat to steer.l


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Offshore sailing along the usually travelled routes is mostly downwind, certainly not beating. Self steering downwind without a vane is tougher to accomplish.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

In using the Norvane, have found that the most difficult point of sail for this gizmo is on a dead run with light wind. It reacts well when close hauled or on a beam reach but gets increasingly more difficult to adjust as the wind gets abaft of beam.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

How is the Norvane downwind in stronger winds? At what apparent wind does it improve going downwind?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

The Norvane works well in strong winds as long as the helm is balanced and the wind is not too gusty. It is best when well offshore, away from changing wind conditions. In a steady wind, it is a real pleasure to be able to get away from the wheel. The thing will steer for hours on end. The effects of shore on wind direction and intensity happen too quickly for the vane to deal with. It needs to be adjusted if the wind direction changes to maintain the same course. It cannot correct enough to overpower gust-caused windward helm. It will try its best but just cannot turn the wheel enough to deal with this. I have arranged the wheel lines so that they can be immediately released when this happens. It is not as efficient as a good autopilot which will correct immediately but requires no power drain.

With a following sea, I would estimate that it is really not very useful below 5 knots but I have not done that much serious experimentation with it to see if I can improve its performance in those conditions. Also, a following sea causes the boat to slew around a bit coming down the backsides of waves and this complicates its mission. The apparent wind is often close to 0 when going downwind below 10 knots so there is really not much wind for the vane to detect. Once the wind gets to blowing faster than the boat can go, it is more effective.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks.
I am considering a Norvane for my tiller steered CS27. It seems a good fit as it looks well designed and engineered. Also its weight is much less than a Monitor which I think is a better choice for a smaller boat like mine. The price is a bit less as well.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Price was surely a factor in choosing the Norvane. It was considerably cheaper than some of the others but had good reviews from folks who had one. The casting work is solid stainless and there are no major weaknesses or corrosion points that I can see. I did have to build a longer main tube mount but that was no big deal. Norvane had all the specs for my boat so there was no guesswork. Everything fit well. These ARE heavy and put quite a lot of additional weight in a bad place, cantilevered out over the stern as they are. Keeping the bow down/mast raked forward a bit is desirable in these full keel/large overhang hulls so an equal weight needs to be distributed forward to trim the ship.

The reason for the longer main tube mount was that the counterweight wound up hitting the rail with the standard mount they sent. I could have raised the whole thing or extended the main mount which is the way I went. This something to think about when planning the mounting and cutting the tubes to length.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think most windvanes require a custom mount on many boats. My boat is a fin keel design with an outboard rudder so I have to plan around that. I don't expect to have to rake the mast forward. While it is weight in really the wrong place it is necessary and the Norvane weighs a lot less than many vanes.


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