# Whisker Pole Sticker Shock



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

I thought it would be handy to be able to pole out my headsail on light wind/downwind sailing days. That was until I saw how much a whisker pole costs:

Telescoping Whisker Pole

Are you kidding me?! $1275 for an aluminum tube?!?! Oh wait, no it's been marked down to a cool, thrifty $1,000. I could see a grand if it ws designed to survive atmospheric re-entry, was made of machined titanium or something, but good lord. I'm by no means a penny pincher, and actually enjoy spending money on the boat, but I don't think I can be convinced that there is a thousand dollars worth of value in an aluminum stick.

Oh, as I'm reading down the write-up..."_The system is simple, and makes the extension and retraction of poles quick and easy. And most amazing of all...the entire operation can be executed while being positioned at the mast. It is no longer necessary to go forward to adjust buttons of any kind - simply uncleat the line and extend or retract_"

So it's not an aluminum tube at all, its a tube with strings attached! Who do I make the check out to


----------



## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Good to hear these sentiments from another rational person. I am assuming we are rational? If not, folie à deux. I have been looking into a spinnaker for the boat, but the whisker pole prices have steered me toward assemetrical spinnaker research as a compromise.


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

I have a modest collection of nice watches, and I've noticed that each watch manufacturer has their own little story to justify why they're so expensive. 

Breitling: Used by aviators who demand absolute precision from their timepieces lest they fall from the sky due to some critical navigational error caused by a misguided trust in a lesser brand of watch.

Rolex: (this should ring true to everyone here) Used by the discerning yachtsman who demands the best performance from his/her timepice (they're never just called a watch by the way) so they can secure their position on the start line, and bring home the pickle dish.

Panerai: Used by Italian naval divers in WWII to conduct underwater demolition of submarines or something like that (I never bothered to wrap my head around the full story on that one)

Omega: Something about James Bond and the moon.

At the end of the day they're just watches, but their clever marketing and little back stories keep customers smiling as they walk out the door with their MASSIVELY overpriced precision timepieces. That brings me back to the whisker pole. There is no clever backstory, no emphasis on precision engineering, no real benefit other than the fact that it's an aluminum tube with some strings on it.

I've become calloused to the prices of most marine hardware and electronics, but I still can't swallow the justification on this one.


----------



## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

I agree with Creedance and for that reason have never had a whisker pole. In heavy air, who needs it. In light air, I have made do with a telescoping boat hook and the last time I needed one I tied the dinghy oars together and used a hose clamp to fasten hooks to either end from carabiners.


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

Frogwatch said:


> I agree with Creedance and for that reason have never had a whisker pole. In heavy air, who needs it. In light air, I have made do with a telescoping boat hook and the last time I needed one I tied the dinghy oars together and used a hose clamp to fasten hooks to either end from carabiners.


Nice workaround! I may have to put some time into working out something like that. Good call.


----------



## jdpmus (May 10, 2011)

There's a nice article in the May/June issue of Good Old Boat that shows you how to make your own whisker pole for about $50. I'm going to adapt the idea to use for awning poles.


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm with you man, 100%. I'm going to make mine from something, or get it at a swap meet. NOT GOING TO PAY that much for a %&$^ing aluminum tube.

See the "death by chopsticks" post (and the video!) here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/83829-physics-whisker-pole.html#post830648

MedSailor

PS Love your avatar, love the Murray. Life Aquatic was another gem.


----------



## billsull (Jul 8, 2007)

I also got sticker shock when I looked into spin/whisker poles. I didn't have the benefit of that GOB article, but I figured I could build my own for a lot less than Forespar so I ordered 2 aluminum tubes (2" and 3" diameter) from a local metal supplier and bought the Forespar end fittings from West Marine.

I saved some money, but there was a substantial hassle factor to be considered. First there was the 100 mile trip to pick up the tubes, then another 80 mile trip to drop them off at the anodizing shop and yet another to pick them up. In between I found out that the maximum length the shop could anodize was 12', so I ended up with shorter poles than optimum. After all was said and done, I ended up with two fixed length 12' poles that cost about $350 each. I still look longingly at the retractable ones that Forespar makes because it would be nice to have that extra couple of feet that I could get when they are extended.


----------



## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

I have access to a complete machine shop with CNC and even electroplating and anodizing so I have considered making my own telescoping line control whisker pole. However, it would be a waste to make just one so I considered the possibility of making many and selling them. Then you get to thinking about liability........
When you buy a pole, that is what you are paying for, liability insurance for Forespar.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

creedence623 said:


> Rolex: (this should ring true to everyone here) Used by the discerning yachtsman who demands the best performance from his/her timepice (they're never just called a watch by the way) so they can secure their position on the start line, and bring home the pickle dish


Rolex watches have to be one of the biggest nouveau riche sucker games going - like marketing a brand new 1955 Bentley as being superior to a contemporary car.

Clockwork mechanism? Spare me - a $30 digital keeps better time.


----------



## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

I have a good stand of bamboo that I'm thinking could be useful. Might not be as hardy as anodized aluminum but if it breaks I could throw it overboard and grab another when I get home.


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

MedSailor said:


> I'm with you man, 100%. I'm going to make mine from something, or get it at a swap meet. NOT GOING TO PAY that much for a %&$^ing aluminum tube.
> 
> See the "death by chopsticks" post (and the video!) here:
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/83829-physics-whisker-pole.html#post830648
> ...


That is an EPIC picture!!! How have I never seen that movie? I'm on a mission to track that one down now.


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Frogwatch said:


> I have access to a complete machine shop with CNC and even electroplating and anodizing so I have considered making my own telescoping line control whisker pole. However, it would be a waste to make just one so I considered the possibility of making many and selling them. Then you get to thinking about liability........
> When you buy a pole, that is what you are paying for, liability insurance for Forespar.


If you make me a pole I won't sue you. Promise. All this ligitiphobia makes me want to leave medicine sometimes. It pervades everything we do...

MedSailor


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

_The Life Aquatic With Steve Zissou _ Awesome movie. Kind of reminds me of _The Big Lebowski _but with Bill Murray.
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou (2004) - IMDb


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You can either find a used Whisker pole from somewhere or make on of your own for well under 1000 dollars. 
Marine prices for gear like that are just a bit stupid, IMHO.
You could make a non-adjustable pole for close to $100.

Edit to add: Who doesn't like Bill Murray?


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

MedSailor said:


> _The Life Aquatic With Steve Zissou _ Awesome movie. Kind of reminds me of _The Big Lebowski _but with Bill Murray.
> The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou (2004) - IMDb


How dare you compare this tripe with the Big Lebowski.uke

The Dude can hardly abide!!!!!


----------



## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

midlifesailor said:


> The Dude can hardly abide!!!!!


Plus, did you see that rug? It really did pull the room together!


----------



## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I paid around $30.00 for mine at a used boat parts store.

I made another one for about $50.00 by buying a telescoping anodized aluminum pole at a pool store, and 2replacement snap rings, and 2 stainless 1/4-20 bolts, and 2 locking nuts.

I paid $1000.00 for my boat.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

A wooden one can be made cheaply too. I built a wood mast for my dory a few years ago of spruce lathe strips.


----------



## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

1- a whisker pole is more complicated than an equivalent-strength spinnaker pole.
2- the compressive loads on a pole for a genny on a 39 foot boat are _huge_.
3- wood poles break, and the flailing jaged pieces or flying splinters can be very dangerous. Aluminum bends, but does not usually outright break off. Worse yet wood is, by comparison, heavy.

4- a proper (and useful) whisker pole length is waay long for deck storage, thus the need for an extendable version, and more complexity and cost.

5- Most of the real cost in any spinnaker pole is in the strong cast-end assemblies.

6- Anyone with normal mechanical skills can build a fixed-length spinnaker pole. You buy an annodized tube in the correct length and wall thickness, and look for ends in all the second-hand marine stores... or find a friend with a Port Supply (or equivalent other wholesale) account.

7- use a hand-swager(wrench tightened) for the trip lines and bridles.

_______
I have built two complete spinnaker poles and rebuilt the one on our present 34 footer, and I am not an engineer by training or experience.

and, 
8- Yup, the _Coen Brothers_ are THAT good!


9- and as for a watch, took it off when I retired and have never worn another... I figure that when it's time to go on watch someone will hollor at me... and they do!


----------



## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

olson34 said:


> 4- a proper (and useful) whisker pole length is waay long for deck storage, thus the need for an extendable version, and more complexity and cost.
> 
> _______


An easier method would be to make two half poles, and either a screw fitting like a cue stick, or a section slightly larger diameter pipe, and butt them with locking pins IE ------===------

I can buy a WHOLE lot of aluminum pipe for $1000.00


----------



## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

In this case it's worth talking to a local chandler and seeing what discount they'll give you. My local one was offering 40% off at the boat show.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

FYI - the aforementioned Good Old Boat $50 whisker pole is based on a Fiberglass/Aluminum telescoping paint roller pole. Stronger than aluminum, and telescoping....

Look in the May / June issue, page 41 for a complete bill of materials.


----------



## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

olson34 said:


> 1- a whisker pole is more complicated than an equivalent-strength spinnaker pole.
> 2- the compressive loads on a pole for a genny on a 39 foot boat are _huge_.


Am I confused? I thought a whisker pole was to hold out the jib when sailing wing and wing. I can do that with careful helm control, but to relax I simply made my own, never considered buying one.

If the job can be done with nothing holding the jib, why should there be excessive strain on the pole?

I made a fixed size out of a fiberglass rod, cut my "fittings" in the forest. I only used what was on hand, because I was in a rush to go somewhere on a light wind day. Total cost, zero cents. I don't bother with it when there is real wind, but works great in light airs. For some reason it fit my genny and my jib.


----------



## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

skygazer said:


> Am I confused? I thought a whisker pole was to hold out the jib when sailing wing and wing. I can do that with careful helm control, but to relax I simply made my own, never considered buying one.
> If the job can be done with nothing holding the jib, why should there be excessive strain on the pole?
> 
> I made a fixed size out of a fiberglass rod, cut my "fittings" in the forest. I only used what was on hand, because I was in a rush to go somewhere on a light wind day. Total cost, zero cents. I don't bother with it when there is real wind, but works great in light airs. For some reason it fit my genny and my jib.


You are not confused. Note that there is quite a bit of force required to really get the clew out _far enough_ to do some good. This is a lot further out, i.e. projecting its full area, than the sail will set when the sheet is pulling it back in towards the deck turning block. Then, as the wind moves forward a bit, the extra length is _really_ needed to set the sail as it goes 10 or 20 or 30 degrees forward from the "right angle" point when it was dead down wind.

We used to race in white sails class in a 20 foot keel boat and we used a telescoping pole. When we would get to the point where we could not reach because the genny was still blanketed too much by the main it had to remain poled out on the other side with the pole forwards quite a ways. Took the fullest allowable extension.

I seem to recall that this thread was started to reference a Ben. 39. That's a LOT of head sail area. Heck the spinnaker pole for that boat would be about a 4" OD. 
Big gear. Big boat. Big $$. You're in the big leagues.


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

olson34 said:


> I seem to recall that this thread was started to reference a Ben. 39. That's a LOT of head sail area. Heck the spinnaker pole for that boat would be about a 4" OD.
> Big gear. Big boat. Big $$. You're in the big leagues.


Oh, I fully embrace the big boat/bigs bucks thing. My wife would contend I embrace it a little too fully. I'll cut a check for big insurance premiums, big slip fees, big transient slip fees, big shiny electronics and other associated wifferdills, but I remain unconvinced there is a thousand dollars worth of value in a 'telescoping' tube made out of anything less exotic than titanium or carbon fiber.

I like the suggestions of making one, and am glad my rant turned into a useful source for people looking for ideas on how to do that. I may play around with a couple of those ideas while keeping my eye out for one of those 40% off specials someone mentioned earlier. I think $600 is justifiable.

EDIT TO ADD: Look at this 40' telescoping monstrosity http://heavensenttv.com/store/Anten...annel-Master?zenid=jvf1h3f4qkbble5p03cp9j6js3 I really can't see how a whisker pole costs 10 TIMES what this thing is going for. (Granted different purposes, different materials, but I think some parallels can still be drawn).


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

SloopJonB said:


> Rolex watches have to be one of the biggest nouveau riche sucker games going - like marketing a brand new 1955 Bentley as being superior to a contemporary car.
> 
> Clockwork mechanism? Spare me - a $30 digital keeps better time.


Exactly! Why whould ANYONE aspire to a Herreschoff when they could have a Beneteau!


----------



## CorvetteGuy (Jun 4, 2011)

Home Depot, carry several different lengths of fiberglass paint rollers, extending out to 15 feet +, with a little MgGivoring one could make a functionial whisker pole. just a little heavier than aluminium though.


----------



## Lflowers230 (Jan 7, 2012)

I have a whisker pole that I'll trade you for one of your Rolex's.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Think the pole is expensive?
Wait until you find out what it costs to ship it to you.


----------



## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

All good points.
I was indeed fortunate that when I built a pole or two, there was an metals/aluminum warehouse within five miles of my house where I could select an alum. alloy tube blank and bring it home on my vehicle top. They were not anodized so I had to paint them, too.

Since the OP lives "at large" (?) there much be a source of tubing very close to him.


Sidebar: _everyone_: please put your sailing or home location into your site bio or sig line. 
It helps everyone else trying to help you with answers... answers that are often regionally-oriented.

LB


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

olson34 said:


> All good points.
> I was indeed fortunate that when I built a pole or two, there was an metals/aluminum warehouse within five miles of my house where I could select an alum. alloy tube blank and bring it home on my vehicle top. They were not anodized so I had to paint them, too.
> 
> Since the OP lives "at large" (?) there much be a source of tubing very close to him.
> ...


I'm sent to a number of countries overseas OFTEN for work so to say I'm in Tampa is misleading 9 months out of the year, and beyond that, I really like to control what personal information I put on the internet. I'm sure with enough research, some of it is out there, and for that reason I'm not a big facebooker, or twitterer, etc. BUT I do like to talk about boats, even if the answers aren't regionally apropos.



bljones said:


> Think the pole is expensive?
> Wait until you find out what it costs to ship it to you.


I guess if they figure you're willing to pay out the a$$ for a whisker pole you can't possibly mind getting fleeced for shipping!!!



Lflowers230 said:


> I have a whisker pole that I'll trade you for one of your Rolex's.


I've never actually been a Rolex man, NO OFFENSE INTENDED TO ANY ROLEX OWNERS, I kind of prefer the lesser-known 'nice' watches. ANYWAY, I digress.

I can say, these poles are approaching the price of a used Breightling (which incidentally take 6 months to make and test, have something in the order of 220 hand assembled moving parts, and let's not forget the rediculous marketing-inspired backstories to make them that much more desireable). Crazy stuff. In any case, there have been a load of good suggestions on making wisker poles for a lot less than 1x Boat Unit, and I thank everyone for the replies!


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

olson34 said:


> Sidebar: _everyone_: please put your sailing or home location into your site bio or sig line.
> It helps everyone else trying to help you with answers... answers that are often regionally-oriented.LB


+1 or 2 on that.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

creedence623 said:


> Omega: Something about James Bond and the moon.


Their ad campaign after the Moon astronauts wore them was great - "Also available on Earth".


----------



## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> Their ad campaign after the Moon astronauts wore them was great - "Also available on Earth".


I bought a brand new "moon" Speedmaster for myself on my 18th birthday. It worked for about three years and then stopped keeping time... Omega wanted $950 to fix some issue it had. I now have a quartz Suunto that I like a lot more.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

funjohnson said:


> I bought a brand new "moon" Speedmaster for myself on my 18th birthday. It worked for about three years and then stopped keeping time... Omega wanted $950 to fix some issue it had. I now have a quartz Suunto that I like a lot more.


A clockwork watch might as well be steam driven it is so obsolete. I have a matched set of Seth Thomas clock & barometer - really beautiful, high quality stuff but the clock is clockwork and doesn't keep time as well as a $10 battery job. Plus you have to wind the damn thing every few days.


----------



## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

SloopJonB said:


> A clockwork watch might as well be steam driven it is so obsolete. I have a matched set of Seth Thomas clock & barometer - really beautiful, high quality stuff but the clock is clockwork and doesn't keep time as well as a $10 battery job. Plus you have to wind the damn thing every few days.


Don't be rediculous. Just *try *replacing a watch battery while re-entering earth's atmosphere from the moon. 

If there's any corporate representation from West Marine in here, take note. A little B.S. backstory for some of your products could go a long way in making them seem worth the money.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Wish I had gotten in on this earlier. The PO of my boat installed a _carbon fiber_ whisker pole mounted to the mast with one of those crank down gismos. I've used it exactly twice. Its a PITA, particularly as we have diagonals that extend somewhat fore of the mast.

I think its just there to look cool. I should probably leave a storm trysail flying on its halyard at the dock as well. This way I will look like I can handle anything, while I sit in the cockpit enjoying a sundowner. I intend to remove it one day and sell it to fully fund my retirement. The only fly in the ointment is who in the world would buy it.

As far as Breitlings go, is there a pilot out there that actually owns one? Cracks me up.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

p.s. Aqautic life is a classic:

Bill Murray...... "Do we issue a Glock to the interns?"

Answer..... "I think they share one"


----------



## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

FYI Good Old Boat has an article on making a cheap whisker pole in this month's edition. I just got it last night and saw it from skimming it over. It may have been a PVC pipe.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Prices on all this stuff, including blocks, rigging, etc. is exorbitant. You either have to be rich or handy to own a sailboat. I made a whisker pole from a pc. of 2-1/2" X 1/4" 6061 T6 aluminum tubing bought from an online metal dealer then fabricated/welded up my own s.s. spring-loaded ends based on standard pole-end designs. It is every bit as good and, in fact, more rugged than the $2000 variety. Made it non-telescoping, just shy of J-length, although making a sliding pole would be no problem if you want adjustable capability. I may yet do that. Materials: some s.s. flat stock, tubing and round stock for the spring pins, alum tubing, some scrap foam for floatation, 2 springs. Cost: around $250. Satisfaction about avoiding being bent over-PRICELESS.


----------



## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> A clockwork watch might as well be steam driven it is so obsolete. I have a matched set of Seth Thomas clock & barometer - really beautiful, high quality stuff but the clock is clockwork and doesn't keep time as well as a $10 battery job. Plus you have to wind the damn thing every few days.


The amazing part of the entire episode is that I was able to sell the broken Omega on eBay (fully disclosed the issue) for only about $300 less than I paid for it 10 years before.

Maybe whisker poles will appreciate too!


----------



## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> A clockwork watch might as well be steam driven it is so obsolete. I have a matched set of Seth Thomas clock & barometer - really beautiful, high quality stuff but the clock is clockwork and doesn't keep time as well as a $10 battery job. Plus you have to wind the damn thing every few days.


I picked my Tissot up for $400, it'll never need a battery, and it is accurate enough. It gains about 1s a day, so I put it back a minute once a month so it is always within 30s of the true time. The average accuracy over a month is within 15s of the true time. How much more accuracy do you need? Nothing I do day to day requires timing to closer than a minute.

If we're going to talk about technological anachronisms, I'd better sell my Bristol right now and get a new Beneteau.

A mechanical watch is more about the intrinsic beauty of fine engineering. Not to mention that the true cost of ownership of anything is depreciation. You can buy a used Omega and sell it in 10 or 20 years time for what you paid for it.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

MarkSF said:


> I picked my Tissot up for $400, it'll never need a battery, and it is accurate enough. It gains about 1s a day, so I put it back a minute once a month so it is always within 30s of the true time. The average accuracy over a month is within 15s of the true time. How much more accuracy do you need? Nothing I do day to day requires timing to closer than a minute.
> 
> If we're going to talk about technological anachronisms, I'd better sell my Bristol right now and get a new Beneteau.
> 
> A mechanical watch is more about the intrinsic beauty of fine engineering. Not to mention that the true cost of ownership of anything is depreciation. You can buy a used Omega and sell it in 10 or 20 years time for what you paid for it.


I fully appreciate fine engineering, probably more than most, but if I'm paying a HUGE premium for something, it better work AT LEAST as well as cheaper alternatives. Would you pay Porsche prices for a car that didn't perform as well as a Chevy, just because it was nicely turned out? By the way, I can guarantee that Tissot will have a lot more shop time for repairs & adjusting over it's life than the time needed for batteries in a digital. I'm old enough to have had mostly clockwork watches - some quite expensive ones, so I know whereof I speak.

Would you also prefer an old, high quality sextant over a good GPS? 20 mile accuracy at best compared to 20 feet all the time, at night, in fog or overcast?

I can understand what drives collectors of old, high quality timepieces, I'm not about to sell my Seth Thomas set. What I hold in disdain are the suckers who pay $20K for a new Rolex, think they've bought "the best" and make a big deal of the sweep second hand. That is nothing but a nouveau riche status game played by fools - the same kind of people who pay $thousands for a bottle of wine and try to convince others that it is "better".

There's two born every minute.


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Bought mine a length of 1 1/2 inch sch 40 aluminium pipe , in a scrapyard for $1 a pound. Works well on my 31 for several Pacific crossings, and 28 years of full time cruising. . I use 2 inch sch 40 aluminiumn for the 36 footers , No problems.


----------



## Lusty Slogger (Jun 30, 2012)

I saw an article regarding building your own whisker pole. I don't know if it were in GOB or not but it suggested using those extendable handles for painting. I don't know if they would work on a larger boat but I sail a 16 foot Sunbird and those do seem strong enough for that. I bought a 8 foot extendable handle for $25.00 (you can get them down to $15.00 at Lowes but those are thin and spindly looking) I bought hardware (a hook for the mast, a threaded bolt for the sail) and a piece of plastic tubing for the threaded bolt. Total cost less than $30.00 and an hour's worth of work. For me it works fine.

Thanks


----------

