# *Thinking* about a bigger, better boat



## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

We've had our Pearson 28-2 for 5 years, and she's been great for day sailing and a little cruising on the Chesapeake. Yet we're thinking of moving to something larger. My wife and I day sail together, but she leaves the cruising to me and any friends I can entice because she finds overnighting on the 28-2 to be the equivalent of "camping." 

I didn't get this at first because I backpack, and the boat accommodations seemed luxurious by comparison. A roof! Mattresses! Hot water! Seats! Lights! But I can now see it through her eyes, and she sees Ice Box! Cramped quarters! Climbing up to the V berth! Old foam mattresses! No stowage! Alcohol stove!

So we're sort of looking. Basically, we want a boat that is still fun to day sail on the light-wind Chesapeake, has a shoal keel or centerboard (say under 5 ft) so we don't have to sweat every anchorage, two cabins and some room so we can take another couple along on 2 to 5 day trips.

More specifically:
* Under $100K
* Prefer to stay under say 38 feet
* No keel stepped masts (I like a dry bilge!)
* No fixer uppers--Happy to maintain and upgrade, but I brought the 28-2 back from the dead. I don't want to do that this time.
* Would prefer something 10 years old or less (or ferociously maintained!)
* No Volvo engines
* No Hunters--No offense! But I hate the limitations of the severly swept back spreaders of the B&R rig! I can just tolerate the slightly swept back spreaders I've got.

When I look on YW, I seem to have gotten us down to Beneteau and Catalina, which is fine, but I'm open to suggestions--or nasty comments if you must


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

They don't fit your 10 years or less criteria, but I've sort of found that center cockpits are very nice. 
Irwin, Morgan etc.. There are a lot that are indeed ferociously maintained. 
I know a Irwin 43 CC for 99k.

My Irwin 38 went for considerably less than your budget. 
https://plus.google.com/photos/113695558945801304480/albums/5782954583751916769/5784118534036416418


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Boy! Howdy... does that "back-packing" comment ring true. More than all the luxuries of home-away-from-home. Literally, "cabin" camping vs tent/tarp/blue sky camping.
AFA suggestions....
I looked using the beam as a preset requirement. Wide beam equals more room!  sailboatdata.com and go thru the list using beam as selector. As the list rolls down, scan beam and when one comes up at or beyond yer tick point, check the other specs..like length/draft requirements. After while, you'll be able to visually sort pretty quick

Beam-ey mebbe not to fast; but cruising is meant ta be slow and easy; isn't it?


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Arf check out the Catlaina 36-38s Nice nice layouts


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Yep, for that dollar and that year range, you will be looking at a production boat. I have sailed and like the Catalina 36. Reasonably fast and fun to sail. The 34 can be a better performer but I like the comfort of the 36 better. A bene Oceanis series is also worth looking at. Honestly, if you don't mind the tighter beam, I really like the first series. However, I would not want to cruise on one. The c36 is a boat I would take cruising. 

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I owned and cruised on a c38. Only prob is they are not as good performers. They are more comfortable than the 36. Mine was a 2001 c380. I would look at that too.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

It's funny Tom because the first half of your email read like my search when going from my previous boat to the 28-2. It's got so much storage space and is so much more comfortable than my Catalina 25 was (and we still enjoyed cruising on that). I guess that is why it's three foot itis.

I'm curious to see what you end up with and hope you enjoy the search.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

Alex W said:


> It's funny Tom because the first half of your email read like my search when going from my previous boat to the 28-2. It's got so much storage space and is so much more comfortable than my Catalina 25 was (and we still enjoyed cruising on that). I guess that is why it's three foot itis.


I guess I got eleven foot itis. I went from cruising in a Catalina 25 to cruising in a Catalina 36.

Be prepared, you cannot go back, at least I cannot. Camping is a good comparison. Last summer I solo'd to South Manitou Island in Lake Michigan. I explored the island and the beaches on a cold rainy fall day, as did a few of the island campers. The island is only open to backpack campers and offers primitive sites only. When I got back to my boat I took a hot shower, changed into warm clothes, turned on the stereo, opened a bottle of wine, and then started dinner. All the time I thought of the others on the beach who were crawling into their nylon tents in their wet gear, probably to have dinner on protein bars or else fight the rain and mosquitoes with their tiny back pack stove. I've been camping. Sailing is better.

I think the Catalina 34 is about as nice as the 36, unless you actually plan to use the stern cabin for more than storage. Cabin is pretty similar, but the cabin seems small in the 34. Anything 34 or above is going to seem like a palace compared to what you've been in.

G. J.


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## steve77 (Aug 5, 2010)

I went from a 1966 Pearson Triton (28 ft) to an '86 Catalina 34 this past fall. While I haven't had a chance to sail on the C34 yet the room down below is really impressive. I've seen ads for C34's that are older than 10 years, but are very well taken care of. And you can get them for a lot less than $100K. C36's too.

The first C34's (like mine) had deck stepped masts, then they made keel stepped masts an option (I think in '87) and a lot of the ones I've seen are keel stepped. Then at some point I think they went back to all deck stepped masts. You could still probably get one of those later ones for under $100K.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Interesting that the C34 has come up with a few of you. That was my first focus and still a contender. It was fading for me because I thought they were all keel stepped, but if I'm hearing correctly, there should be some deck stepped C34s out there? Is that true for the C36 too, anyone know?

I threw the under $100K out there so as not to miss any possibilities, but truth be told, I'd rather stay under $80K.


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## SawWhet (Mar 1, 2008)

We went from a Tanzer 26' to a 1997 Beneteau 321,cery large ft cabin,propane stove with oven,added refrigeration to ice box,My wife and I love the boat


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Alex W said:


> It's funny Tom because the first half of your email read like my search when going from my previous boat to the 28-2. It's got so much storage space and is so much more comfortable than my Catalina 25 was (and we still enjoyed cruising on that). I guess that is why it's three foot itis.


I still think the P28-2 is quite a boat, Alex--it does it all nicely. The cabin is really attractive, we both like the aft head, and my friends have used the aft cabin without complaint!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The MKII C 34s are deck stepped, the MKIs are keelstepped except the first few hull #s. The 36s are all keel stepped I believe.. which is too bad because I think overall the layout, and esp the galley, of the 36 trumps the 34 in all other areas.

With your 10 year age limit you'll be looking mainly at MkII versions.. on the 34 the primary advantages are the mast step and the larger cockpit/aft cabin and reduced exterior teak (usually drop boards only). An early to mid 2000s model should be well do-able at $100K or less.


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## steve77 (Aug 5, 2010)

arf, if you haven't already by all means check out the owners' organization websites for the C34 and C36. Lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people there.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I am a past measurer for the Catalina C34 International Owners Association so feel free to ask any specific questions you like. The C34 actually started out as a deck stepped mast. Went to keel stepped for a few years and then back to deck stepped. The boat had been in production for over twenty years (over 1,500 built) so there are many different combinations of engines etc. All the boats used the same (underwater) hull mold and both the “sugar scoops” and “classic sterns” conform to the same one design rule. On the west coast, boats newer than 2000 can still command a price in excess of $100k. I am sure that you can find an older MkII or Mk1½ boat easily within your price range. Understandably, the condition and what kind of gear added on will determine the ultimate price. My year 2000 boat draws 5’ 8” and has a standard keel. The shoal keel will get you to under 5’ but your ability to point is reduced by a good 5*. Both the C34 and 36 share practically all the same equipment (MkII boats) so it will be personal preference which one you will ultimately decide on. We all love our own boats dearly, but I can state a fact, that there isn’t a C36 I’ve come across that I couldn’t out sail. The C34IA.org is an excellent source of information as is the C36 owners association.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks for the ideas!

Chuckles, I took a look at an Irwin 38 CC on YW--nice. I think that's a keel stepped mast tho. I'll take a look at the Morgan too.

Brian, pretty much every time I see a Bene First on YW in the mid-Atlantic, it's been raced, usually with nice deep draft too. I get the feeling that not many of these are used as performance cruisers. Maybe I haven't looked enough. But the Bene 331, 343 are on my list. Glad to hear you are happy with your 321, SawWhet. I'd love to hear more.

Steve77 and GeorgeB, I've spent a fair amount of time lurking around the C34 site. The level of support there is awesome and confidence inspiring --a big mark in the C34's favor. I guess I'll know more when I get us on some of these boats, but right now I'd favor the 34 over the 36 for the performance. We're already giving up something with the shoal keel. 

I think in the end, we will still do more day sailing than cruising, or at least as much, so I'll always care about performance, that is, sailing feel, I guess. And of course I realize that makes for compromises.

BTW, Faster, you read my mind regarding exterior teak! I don't need it. I love aluminum toe rails and can't understand why Bene has gone back to teak toe rails and cabin top hand rails.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I went through a very similar process in 2006. I had a Newport 28 that we (my family of 5) been day sailing and using on overnight trips. The 28 was great for day sails but was too small for anything more than 1 night. My budget was significantly less than yours (under $35K) but the rest was comparable. I ended up with an O'day 35, which has been great.

There are lots of boats out there that would meet your needs. Do you care more about performance or comfort? Do you want something that's great for day sailing and Ok for week long cruises or the other way around? 

I love my 35' boat when we're on board for a long weekend. I don't love it so much when I am sanding the bottom, cleaning the hull, paying for winter storage, etc. Then I think 'why wasn't I happy with a 28' boat?' 

If it's just the two of you, I would try real hard to stay under 35'. If you like convenience more than performance, the Beneteau Oceanus boats would be great. You could look at the 323, 331, 343, etc. Most have roller furling mains and all the comforts below. As previously mentioned the Catalina 34 would meet your needs. Most have traditional mains and will sail better than the Beneteaus. I'm surprised no one mentioned the Catalina 320. Those are pretty nice too. Lastly there are few Jenneau models that would work. I find them 'prettier' than the Beneteau boats. 

Too bad you don't like hunter boats. The late model 33 sounds like it was designed for your requirements.

Good luck,
Barry


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Tom,

Your post very much mirrors where the Admiral and I are. She is 2 years away from retirement. She loves our camping life and is not reluctant to "camp" on our I-28. We both look forward to enough space to stay aboard as long as it appeals. We, too are looking for next. I rebuilt our current boat and she wants to park it so we have it to return to when we tire of living aboard. We have the space. It isn't a priority for me but that is who the Admiral is. Lucky me.

I do understand the advantages of a performance cruiser. We are still open to other options. Age is not as critical for us. One boat we are starting to look more closely at is the Camper and Nicholson 35. ??? We may decide to purchase our boat in Europe, spend some time there and sail home. It is getting exciting. A couple of years isn't far off. No time to loose.

Down


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

BarryL said:


> Do you care more about performance or comfort? Do you want something that's great for day sailing and Ok for week long cruises or the other way around?


I lean more toward the great for day sailing, OK for week long cruises. Of course that "OK" level is determined by my wife. 



BarryL said:


> If it's just the two of you, I would try real hard to stay under 35'.


That's really the plan. I threw out the larger length to accommodate any older, less chunky boats someone may want to suggest.

Re: Beneteaus & Catalinas
Those are the Bene models I have in mind, though I would try hard to find one without the furling main. I'll look into the Cat 320.

A question to those who have sailed both: IYHO, is say the C34 shoal a better performer than say the B331 or B 343 shoal? IIRC, the Bene's are lighter--thought they might go better in light wind.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

arf145 said:


> I.....
> Those are the Bene models I have in mind, though I would try hard to find one without the furling main. I'll look into the Cat 320.
> .


We were sort-of-shopping last spring, and the C320 was on our list.. from my point of view mostly for the nicer looking rig and appendages, and open spacious cockpit. It has a lot of the features (cockpit, deck step, no teak, etc) that you need to go to a MKII 34 or 36 to get. I also liked the galley better than the C34. However the storage options are reduced and the main cabin feels quite a bit smaller. Also the access to the V berth is really narrow.. a large person would have difficulty getting in and out, unlike the 34 and 36 which have very large, roomy comfortable Vs. The aft cabins are probably a wash, esp compared to the MKII 34/36.

With Bene's I've sailed a 321 (2007) with furling main.. it actually went OK, it was a deep keel version. I'd have preferred a standard main but that's very hard to find in that vintage. I've been quite impressed with the sailing ability and ruggedness of the First 36.7 and have put over 1K nm on one in the Caribbean. Storage is a bit of an issue.. I will say the B361 has a monstrous icebox/reefer that my wife quite salivates over, but we both find the cruising benes of that vintage a bit 'vanilla' somehow...

Though I kind of hate to say it, we really liked the layout and setup of the Hunter 355 Legend (91-94) best of all of them. Frac rig, decent cockpit (but smaller than the Cats) arguably a better layout below and arguably 'sexier' looking but of course that's subjective. The biggest knock for me on the h355 is the rarity of a deep keel version - not an issue for you...


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Faster said:


> Though I kind of hate to say it, we really liked the layout and setup of the Hunter 355 Legend (91-94) best of all of them. Frac rig, decent cockpit (but smaller than the Cats) arguably a better layout below and arguably 'sexier' looking but of course that's subjective. The biggest knock for me on the h355 is the rarity of a deep keel version - not an issue for you...


This is why I put the question to the braintrust here! I thought all Hunters had the B&R. That is a nice looking boat, for sure. The 37.5 too. I could ding it for what looks to be a keel stepped mast, I guess. Which makes me ask: Am I being too picky on that issue? How do those who have these handle the rainwater that makes its way in, or is that not that common?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

arf,

Maybe also consider some of the more performance oriented boats like the Sabre 34/36 or The C&C 35 like we have or the CS36 like Mainesail has. a liitle slower but also nice the Tartan 34 or 37.

They are very comfortable as cruising boats but are a lttle more performance oriented tha Catalinas and Bennes.

They also have the traditional lines like your Peason had

The problem is the deck stepped mast. Is that a deal breaker. We have a virtually dry bilge as we have a dripless shaft.

Dave


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

arf145 said:


> This is why I put the question to the braintrust here! I thought all Hunters had the B&R. That is a nice looking boat, for sure. The 37.5 too. I could ding it for what looks to be a keel stepped mast, I guess. Which makes me ask: Am I being too picky on that issue? How do those who have these handle the rainwater that makes its way in, or is that not that common?


Both the 355 and the 375 are deck stepped.. so no worries there. The whole deck/keel issue can be overblown. But truth is even with well sealed partners at the deck, a dripless shaft seal, etc, you are still likely to get water down the inside of the mast, esp when windy and raining, through halyard slots, tang fittings, etc. A deck stepped mast does avoid that and is attractive from that point of view.

It's a manageable issue, (ie keel stepped) so if you find a boat you love otherwise I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand (btw, all Cat 36s, even MKIIs, are keel stepped unlike the others)


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I don't think there is any real significant advantage or disadvantage of deck stepped vs. keep stepped mast. Yes, a keel stepped mast is more likely to let rain water enter the boat, either through the mast or where the mast passes through the partners. However, a good mast boot will most most / all of the water. On the plus side, the keel stepped mast is probably stronger than deck stepped. It is also way easier to get the wiring from the mast into the boat (no connectors going through the deck). You don't need a compression post inside the boat.

My mast is keep stepped. I used to get a lot of water inside after a rain. Then I did a proper job of installed the mast boot and I also used some mast boot tape. Now I get very little (like a few drips) water inside after a rain storm. 

Regarding some other boat suggestions, the Hunter Legend models (33.5, 35.5, 37.5) are pretty nice but they are getting old now. The last models were made in 1995 or so, so they are now approaching 20 years old. Personally, that doesn't bother me, but you stated you wanted boats that were more like 10 years old. Lastly, those boats do have a B+R rig with swept back spreaders. They still have a backstay and don't use the arch like newer models, but you still can't ease the main all the way out b/c it will hit the spreaders.

Barry


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

BarryL said:


> Lastly, those boats (Hunter Legends) do have a B+R rig with swept back spreaders. They still have a backstay and don't use the arch like newer models, but you still can't ease the main all the way out b/c it will hit the spreaders.
> 
> Barry


Just a point of clarification..

The rigs on the 33.5/35.5/37.5/40.5 Legend series are not really B&R rigs. B&R rigs are characterized primarily by the "X' pattern of shrouds and long, severely swept spreaders. The older h40 had a masthead version of the B&R also with a standard backstay..

The 89 - 95 Legends have regular uppers and lowers, *slightly swept* spreaders and a standard backstay. Once Hunter went to the "6" series (336, etc) the backstay disappeared, the spreader sweep got extreme and the B&R's "X" shrouds reappeared.

Swept spreaders can interfere with the main on a dead run but it's not all that big a deal (our boat is similar in that regard) We generally avoid running DDW in any case..


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> I don't think there is any real significant advantage or disadvantage of deck stepped vs. keep stepped mast. Yes, a keel stepped mast is more likely to let rain water enter the boat, either through the mast or where the mast passes through the partners. However, a good mast boot will most most / all of the water. On the plus side, the keel stepped mast is probably stronger than deck stepped. It is also way easier to get the wiring from the mast into the boat (no connectors going through the deck). You don't need a compression post inside the boat.


The structural advantages of the KS mast seem a wash to me. And no offense, but those plus points seem a little dubious. Sure, once you put a mast-sized hole in your deck it's easier to get wires through, and yes, you don't need a compression post because you've got a much bigger post-like mast running through your cabin. Like saying chopping off your hand has removed the need for a glove.  But it does sound like the water thing--which was my only consideration--may be less than I thought. I might put that question out on the board separately.

I am indeed trying to move to a newer boat, but I'm also trying to keep an open mind. The "newer" desire is partly about design, etc. and also about trying to get a boat before water has gotten through the deck fittings, sun has had it's way with the gelcoat, and PO's have had less time to make questionable repairs, etc.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

As dear old Dad told me- "If you're even THINKING about a bigger boat, go and completely wash and wax the one you have first, and then decide how much bigger you really want." )


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> Maybe also consider some of the more performance oriented boats like the Sabre 34/36 or The C&C 35 like we have or the CS36 like Mainesail has. a little slower but also nice the Tartan 34 or 37.
> .
> .
> The problem is the deck stepped mast. Is that a deal breaker.


Good ones, Dave. I have stalked the CS on YW in the past because MaineSail liked his so much. Not many of them in this neck of the woods, but I see that some do have a shoal keel. And I've looked at C&Cs--I like a lot about them, but generally they're going to have only a quarter berth aft, true? Was hoping to take a couple of guests out with us.

But I'm bending on the KS vs. DS mast.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

jrd22 said:


> As dear old Dad told me- "If you're even THINKING about a bigger boat, go and completely wash and wax the one you have first, and then decide how much bigger you really want." )


Not fair. Way too realistic!  Especially considering the shape I was in the last time I washed/compounded/polished/waxed my 28 footer. But see, I was hoping I could avoid a couple of those middle steps if I go with a newer boat with less beat-upon gelcoat. And then boatyard fairies will scrape and paint the bottom, and ...


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> As dear old Dad told me- "If you're even THINKING about a bigger boat, go and completely wash and wax the one you have first, and then decide how much bigger you really want." )


OMG, I'd have to go back to my Lido 14 if required to wash and wax myself. It got to be like painting the Golden Gate Bridge, by the time I finished it was time to start again.
I have an '02 C320 and it would certainly suit the purposes of the OP, the door to the forepeak is ridiculous narrow as Faster said earlier.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm not sure that newer is the key to less beat up, just having good prior owners is. I've owned two boats that were about the same age (1984 Catalina 25 and 1986 Pearson 28-2). The Pearson was better loved in the last decade and the gelcoat is in way better condition. The Catalina is structurally really good (and has no leaks, I just checked the bilge with the new owner after a month of heavy rain here), but the gelcoat is more oxidized and picks up mildew a lot more easily.

It sounds like your 28-2 has required a lot more work than mine does. I've needed to rebed a couple of deck fittings, but overall it is in good shape and better shape than some newer boats that I've seen.

I wondered if you'd considered the bigger brothers to your current boat like a Pearson 36-2? 

My 28-2 has a clogged mast drain (so clogged that fixing it will require taking the mast down), so I know how much water comes down the mast. I currently have it getting wicked down into a pot that I keep on the table next to the support post. In a week of heavy rain about half a cup gets into there. This doesn't seem like a huge amount to have come in and get pumped out of the bilge, but it does mean you wouldn't have a completely dry bilge.

The only larger boat that I've sailed is a Catalina 36. I was impressed with the space and layout, but can't really compare how it would sail compared to other large boats. It felt a lot bigger and heavier than the 28-2, but it's been a while.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The Pearson 36-2 probably would be a good fit .. decent cockpit and practical layout. Friends with one have had to redo all the ports - they had some real leakers. But it's a big, brawny boat with a fair bit of space and a decent aft cabin.

One of our 'must haves' last time around was two decent doubles _*without*_ having to make/break a convertible dinette. This left a lot of boats off the list, but fortunately nowadays a decent aft double is pretty common.. the V berths are hit and miss.. some pushed so far forward there's not really room for two sets of feet (esp the late 80s 30-32 foot Beneteaus, for example)

The most common nowadays is the athwartship aft berth (Bene, Hunter and Catalina). For coastal cruising and few overnight passages I think that's fine. Ours is not and with some mid-berth leecloths could probably be a decent seaberth if necessary.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

I have no doubt that those 36-2 ports were set the same way as the 28-2 and they can be real leakers indeed. Last season I replaced two of them on the stbd side, and the rotted wood panel that surrounded them. That same leakage also caused some rot down in some more woodwork and in the sole as well. They're on my list!

I share your two decent doubles criterion. The newer production models do make this more likely since most seem to carry their width well aft.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

arf145 said:


> I share your two decent doubles criterion. The newer production models do make this more likely since most seem to carry their width well aft.


Yes.. true.. Oddly, our boat is a mid 80s "IOR skinny butt" special and we actually have a very good aft double.. a rare find.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Possibly even rarer, our little (relatively) P28-2 has an aft double with room to stand with the door closed. You have to watch your footing though, as the standing area partly slopes up following the shape of hull.


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## earlylight (Dec 20, 2012)

My suggestion is to purchase the boat you can afford and then just go sailing.


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## steve77 (Aug 5, 2010)

arf145 said:


> Possibly even rarer, our little (relatively) P28-2 has an aft double with room to stand with the door closed. You have to watch your footing though, as the standing area partly slopes up following the shape of hull.


This is the kind of aft cabin I dream about:

http://www.buy-a-boat.com/images/Catalina400_aftstrm.jpg


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

That vessel whose pic you chose is kinda like the Bentley of boats. Faster than a America's cup boat, more luxurious than a hinkley. Plus, the tech editor for that yacht is the worlds best looking and smartest sailor. 

You have earned very high reps in my book. Please make sure to mention this yacht to my fellow moderators at every opportunity. No matter their comments on public, secretly they all are jealous. 

Brian


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## steve77 (Aug 5, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> That vessel whose pic you chose is kinda like the Bentley of boats. Faster than a America's cup boat, more luxurious than a hinkley. Plus, the tech editor for that yacht is the worlds best looking and smartest sailor.
> 
> You have earned very high reps in my book. Please make sure to mention this yacht to my fellow moderators at every opportunity. No matter their comments on public, secretly they all are jealous.
> 
> Brian


Ok wait a second... I think there's something fishy going on here!

(just checked your profile. so ok seriously, that seems like pretty close to an ideal boat for me)


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Cruisingdad said:


> ...
> 
> You have earned very high reps in my book. Please make sure to mention this yacht to my fellow moderators at every opportunity. No matter their comments on public, secretly they all are jealous.
> 
> Brian


Don't mind Brian. He's still on some heavy meds from his close encounter with a cleat.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

steve77 said:


> This is the kind of aft cabin I dream about:
> 
> http://www.buy-a-boat.com/images/Catalina400_aftstrm.jpg


Ahem... This is my thread and if anyone should be sucking up to the good looking, charismatic, talented, and altruistic bunch who are the moderators here, it's me. I choose to stay above that kind of thing however.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

arf145 said:


> Ahem... This is my thread and if anyone should be sucking up to the good looking, charismatic, talented, and altruistic bunch who are the moderators here, it's me. I choose to stay above that kind of thing however.


Just remember... in the case of one certain, currently gloating, sunfried moderator it's 'Allegedly good looking'....


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Hah! You all had me going on the keel-stepped mast leakage being no big deal, and then I read the current thread on water intrusions on KS masts (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/95444-rain-water-entering-bilge-thru-mast.html), and it sounds like a big deal to me. Not sink-your-boat big deal, of course, but we all work hard to stop water intrusion from ports and hatches and all, it's seems weird to give this one a free ride.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

arf145 said:


> Hah! You all had me going on the keel-stepped mast leakage being no big deal, and then I read the current thread on water intrusions on KS masts (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/95444-rain-water-entering-bilge-thru-mast.html), and it sounds like a big deal to me. Not sink-your-boat big deal, of course, but we all work hard to stop water intrusion from ports and hatches and all, it's seems weird to give this one a free ride.


Ahhh... but the difference is the mast water goes into the bilge, to a sump and away... port leaks, chainplate leaks, etc damage structure, stain woodwork and cause structural issues long term... big difference!


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Benny 361.

And I call BS on Brian.


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## shanedennis (Feb 10, 2012)

Stop thinking like a guy and start thinking like a girl. . The goal is to get your wife on the boat, right? Men like practical things. Girls like pretty things. Girls like dressing pretty and they like it when someone tells them they have a pretty boat. 

Sailing is always going to be a little like campinh. All things being equal girls much prefer to "camp" on a classic cruiser than yesterday's production boat.

We paid under $100k for our PSC 34. My wife fell in love with it soon as we stepped aboard. When I saw her eyes I knew we had found the right boat.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

You know, this thread was going really well until the original poster came in and got it back on topic. Thanks a lot...

Brian


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

My apologies. Now, back to business. Which moderator looks best in a swim suit?


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Sure, traditional spouses like pretty things, but they also like practicality in the things that they use and spend lots of time with. It's only logical for someone who enjoys cooking to be more concerned about the galley layout and function than some other features.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Wasn't quite sure if shanedennis was joking or not--he's using a rather broad brush to paint a picture of what women want. My wife would rather have a boat she liked the look of than one that someone else admired, and she likes modern styling overall. Luckily, I do too.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

arf145 said:


> When I look on YW, I seem to have gotten us down to Beneteau and Catalina, which is fine, but I'm open to suggestions--or nasty comments if you must


HAHA! That's funny. When I was reading you post (before I got to the above quoted section) I thought "man this guy is looking for a Benniteau or Catalina." I don't add Hunters to this list because I don't like them and wouldn't recommend them to anyone. The Benetaus and Catalinas I would recommend with some reservations.

You're not going offshore right? Good. Then they are recommended for you.

I've been aboard many of each brand and sailed both quite a few times. I've raced a catalina 30 for over 10 years and they actually sail pretty well. In "general" I would say that the benetaus sail a little bit better, especially in light wind, and the catalinas are a little more stout. The catalinas "feel" bigger inside but the Benetaus actually use the space a little better.

I would advise taking your wife below several of each make and see which one she likes. You'll likely be happy with either, but if she isn't happy, you'll be sailing alone again. I bought the boat I have now based on the fact that my wife (then girlfriend) fell in love with it. I might have picked a slightly different (and smaller) boat, but it was WELL within what I could really like and she fell in love with it. Now she's a willing crew and we're both happy.

Good luck shopping!

MedSailor


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> I would advise taking your wife below several of each make and see which one she likes. You'll likely be happy with either, but if she isn't happy, you'll be sailing alone again. I bought the boat I have now based on the fact that my wife (then girlfriend) fell in love with it. I might have picked a slightly different (and smaller) boat, but it was WELL within what I could really like and she fell in love with it. Now she's a willing crew and we're both happy.
> 
> Good luck shopping!


Thanks MedSailor. That is the next step for sure. Actually we have been aboard the Bene 34 and Cat 355 (or whatever it is) at the Annapolis show, and she much prefers the Bene, and that seems to hold true for their models over the last 10 - 12 years or so, where we'd be looking. And at some point we will need to sail one of these contenders!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Just for the record, the Irwin 38 CC is not keel stepped, that's a compression post you see in the pictures of the salon.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

I just thought I'd update this thread. I went from thinking to doing, and the winner was a 2000 Beneteau 331 in very nice condition--furling main but with standard keel (5' 5"). We sailed her home to Tracy's Landing from Annapolis on Saturday. Actually, we did more motoring than sailing, as we didn't get going until after noon, when the wind got very flaky. What sailing we did however, felt good, and we're looking forward to getting her out there as soon as possible.

Now, I have an _excellent _Pearson 28-2 for sale...!


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

arf145 said:


> I just thought I'd update this thread. I went from thinking to doing, and the winner was a 2000 Beneteau 331 in very nice condition--furling main but with standard keel (5' 5").


Nice choice!!! I tell you, nobody knows how to make the most of space, while preserving performance like Beneteau. I hadn't seen this model but I love the layout and I bet she sails well (though I wonder why the keel isn't a little deeper).

Enjoy the boat!

MedSailor


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Congrats Tom! 

I've never seen one of these in person, but based on the line drawing on sailboatdata it looks like a boat with a similar (but much larger of course) interior to your Pearson 28-2. I hope it gives you many years of great service, and that someone good buys your current boat.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

arf145 said:


> I just thought I'd update this thread. I went from thinking to doing, and the winner was a 2000 Beneteau 331 in very nice condition--furling main but with standard keel (5' 5"). We sailed her home to Tracy's Landing from Annapolis on Saturday. Actually, we did more motoring than sailing, as we didn't get going until after noon, when the wind got very flaky. What sailing we did however, felt good, and we're looking forward to getting her out there as soon as possible.
> 
> Now, I have an _excellent _Pearson 28-2 for sale...!


Wow a fleet owner...Congratulations, hope you downsize your collection soon.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> Nice choice!!! I tell you, nobody knows how to make the most of space, while preserving performance like Beneteau. I hadn't seen this model but I love the layout and I bet she sails well (though I wonder why the keel isn't a little deeper).
> 
> Enjoy the boat!


Thanks MedSailor!

But, you Pacific Northwesters! No appreciation for the thin film of water we sail on in parts of the Chesapeake  The shoal keel that you see 90% of the used Beneteaus with around here is a foot shallower. The deeper keel was one of this boats attractions to me--better sailing--but also a source of a little worry--running aground. I'll be very nervous the first time we go into Knapps Narrows (a small waterway that splits the Tighlman Island pennisula).


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Alex W said:


> Congrats Tom!
> 
> I've never seen one of these in person, but based on the line drawing on sailboatdata it looks like a boat with a similar (but much larger of course) interior to your Pearson 28-2. I hope it gives you many years of great service, and that someone good buys your current boat.


Thanks Alex! You hit the nail on the head regarding the interior. We liked the interior on the 28-2 and were very happy to find something similar, if bigger. We love the aft head and aft cabin. She's got a little more galley space because the aft cabin door is on the other side.

I'll post some pictures when I take some good ones.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

SimonV said:


> Wow a fleet owner...Congratulations, hope you downsize your collection soon.


Thanks SimonV! I updated my signature to show my hopefully short-lived fleet. The admiral of my navy has ordered a fleet reduction ASAP--in fact she wanted it done beforehand, but then I would have been facing the summer boatless


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

With a difference of 5.5 to 4.5 in draft.....not sure that is worth it! I'd take teh 5.5 too! I have 5.5 in my 28' boat with no real issues. There are afew places here in the salish sea that I would be in trouble, then again, one would be in trouble with less draft if they are not carefull to! 

You probably got the better sailing machine, with a few more worries about depth, but probably not enough to really worry about frankly! I'd prefer 6-6.5 on aboat tha size..........

Enjoy the boat!

marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I think I'd like a 6' draft on my 28' boat too, but understand why people like shoal draft in the Chesapeake (even though it really doesn't matter in Puget Sound). 

One look at the depth charts for the areas around Neavitt, MD, or St Michaels, MD realizing that the numbers are feet (not fathoms as they are over here) will make you realize that it is a very shallow place. I picked those locations because I have family there, not for any other reason. It looks like I'd have to get 1000' from my families waterfront house to even get 2' of depth.

Where 300' of anchor rode is common around here (Seattle) they must often use 50' or less.


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## JSL3 (Jun 6, 2007)

arf145 said:


> I just thought I'd update this thread. I went from thinking to doing, and the winner was a 2000 Beneteau 331 in very nice condition--furling main but with standard keel (5' 5"). We sailed her home to Tracy's Landing from Annapolis on Saturday. Actually, we did more motoring than sailing, as we didn't get going until after noon, when the wind got very flaky. What sailing we did however, felt good, and we're looking forward to getting her out there as soon as possible.
> 
> Now, I have an _excellent _Pearson 28-2 for sale...!


Congrats Tom!
I can't wait to see the new addition!

BTW, I was out on Saturday in the area of Thomas Point Light. Must have crossed wakes at some point.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks Jim! No doubt we were close there. I was the one inadvertently getting in the way of some of the racers in the last of three regattas that were apparently put on to celebrate our new boat


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Beneteuas and Catalinas are flimsy crap. Older designs are far better put together, and more seaworthy.


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## peoples1234 (Jul 17, 2010)

Brent Swain said:


> Beneteuas and Catalinas are flimsy crap. Older designs are far better put together, and more seaworthy.


You sure hit a home run with that post 

:laugher


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Brent Swain said:


> Beneteuas and Catalinas are flimsy crap. Older designs are far better put together, and more seaworthy.


Yes, Brent, I was going to take into consideration the huge number of Beneteaus and Catalinas that must have broken up and foundered on the Chesapeake in recent years, but somehow these cases have all been kept quiet. I'll take my chances.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Brent Swain said:


> Beneteuas and Catalinas are flimsy crap. Older designs are far better put together, and more seaworthy.


Don't take offense. It's Brent's way of saying "Congratulations on your new boat!" 

You're not going offshore, so why tote around all the extra weight of the heavier older boats?

MedSailor


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats Tom,

Glad you found a good fit for you and your wife. More room will make a big difference. Now maybe well see you at the Rondevous one of these years.

The 5.5 will only be a problem in the Kent and Knapps Narrows, but they can be circumvented and circumnavigated if necessary. You will have better performance.

Good luck with her.

Dave


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> The 5.5 will only be a problem in the Kent and Knapps Narrows, but they can be circumvented and circumnavigated if necessary. You will have better performance.


Thanks Dave! I'm hoping not to have to go around Knapps Narrows all the time--we use it frequently to get to the Choptank, our closest stomping grounds. The Narrows itself and even the eastern side isn't the problem, but the west side entrance, from say Red #4 through the next 50 yards, is. I think it will be doable, but maybe not at low tide.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Where are the pictures? This thread has taken a turn that basically demands pictures.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Right you are. Here's a couple.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Congrats, she is a beautiful boat!


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

How can they possibly stuff that second photo into the boat in the first photo?

Amazing! 

MedSailor


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> How can they possibly stuff that second photo into the boat in the first photo?
> 
> Amazing!
> 
> MedSailor


Thanks all! Good one, MedSailor. And you can't even see the game room, sauna, and small bowling alley!  Honestly though, I was shooting down at her a foot and a half below the dock and probably knocked off some freeboard.


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