# Low friction rings for single-line reefing



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

I want to rig my main with single-line reefing for the first two reefing points.
My original thought was to put blocks on the sail at the reefing cringles. I wasn't to keen on the weight or aesthetics of that but I wanted to reduce the friction as much as possible.
These low-friction rings look as though they might do the trick:








Does anyone have experience with them? Would I see a noticeable difference between using these rings or just passing my reefing lines through the reefing cringles - these aren't grommets: they are stainless rings on either side of the sail?
Thanks in advance


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have never seen a single line reefing system which actually worked very well. There tends to be a lot of friction, much higher line loads, and an absurd amount of line to haul. I have actually removed single line reefing from a couple of my boats after not being able to get decent sail shape when reefed and not being able to get a reef in quickly enough. 

But if you have your heart set on single line reefing, then I would strongly suggest that you look at ways to reduce friction. While those rings are supposed to offer a lower friction than simple stainless steel rings, I would suggest that you would do better using small low friction blocks instead. I would also suggest using small diameter high modulus line, or the core of a high modulus line with its cover removed to further reduce friction. 

Jeff


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> I have never seen a single line reefing system which actually worked very well. There tends to be a lot of friction, much higher line loads, and an absurd amount of line to haul. I have actually removed single line reefing from a couple of my boats after not being able to get decent sail shape when reefed and not being able to get a reef in quickly enough.


Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have my heart set on the single-line system per se, it's just that I intend to single-hand a lot and would prefer to not have to leave the cockpit especially in conditions that would call for reefing. I thought that the single-line system would be 'safest' in that regard. Two lines would, I think, present the same challenges regarding sail shape and would require additional clutches.

The other alternative would be to have a line on the leach and hook the luff cringle onto the hook. This is how I have been reefing up to now, and, although a good sail shape can be achieved, there have been some interesting moments up at the mast.

I will be installing a stack-away (stack-pack) with lazy jacks this year (up to now I don't have lazy jacks) so this would eliminate the need to go on deck to tie down the sail when reefed.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

You could run both tack and clew reef lines aft individually, that would allow reefing from the cockpit but avoid the overly long single line ple of rope. That costs more in clutched, stoppers etc, but it's another idea...


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Faster said:


> You could run both tack and clew reef lines aft individually, that would allow reefing from the cockpit but avoid the overly long single line ple of rope. That costs more in clutched, stoppers etc, but it's another idea...


I agree, but I think you would still have the challenge of sail-shape that Jeff mentioned.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

flyingwelshman said:


> I agree, but I think you would still have the challenge of sail-shape that Jeff mentioned.


Actually, I think that's what Jeff H uses, you can individually adjust tack and clew and it should work just fine. I think Jeff's beef (on sail shape/settings) was not with the friction so much as the common tension on both tack and clew.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

my boat came with hooks....into cringles on the main...there is a high tech line used to a small very small winch almost all the way forward towards the gooseneck

im eager to try it out as its a similar thought process to what the op is suggesting if I dont like it Ill have to try something else out...

my boat also has lazy jacks...never have been a fan but what are the pros? im used to very simpe less lines mains...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Ron (Faster) is right. I use a two line reefing system for each reef. I have one line that is tied at the gooseneck, runs vertically up to the luff reef cringle and then back down to a turning block at the deck and then back to the cockpit. There is a second line which is tied around the boom, runs up through the leech reef cringle and then back aft to a turning block at the boom end, inside the boom to a block near the gooseneck then back down to a turning block at the deck and then back to the cockpit. 

On a boat like the Hunter 30 you should be able to use a simple cam cleat for the luff line since you tension the luff with the halyard and its winch. The leech will probably require a stopper and be led to a winch. 

This allows the luff to be tensioned independently of the foot of the sail. The luff line has almost no load on it when it is pulled in so it happens very quickly. The leech has a lot of load and requires some grinding, but there is a lot less line and friction involved.

Jeff


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

I suggest you read this article on "low friction" Low Friction Rings

I have used low friction rings in a cascade for my cunningham but I don't think that it is a good choice for a single line reef setup.

I have two line reef setup for all three reefs (Will only have reef three ready for use when we plan longer offshore crossings).

Two line reef works fine.
-Good control of sail shape
-Less rope in cockpit

My tack reef line is tied to the reef cringle, go through a block at the mast down to a turning block at deck level - no mechanical advantage.
Back to the winch/clutch.
Don't use much force to pull down the tack reef line (a better name anyone)

Here you can see
Tack reef line (Green&White) going through the block (This block ensures a good angle for the reef line)
Cunningham with the low friction rings 









The clew reef line go from the boom down to turning block at mast base.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I use single line reefing on my Pearson 28-2. I have an Antal low friction ring at the tack. The system works well for me.

My reefing line is Amsteel, which is a lot more slippery than a double braid. It is also smaller and lighter for what that is worth. I think that the Amsteel reefing line made a bigger difference than the Antal ring, but both helped.

I used to run it through both cringles, but added the Antal ring to the tack cringle last year. I made a "dogbone" that has a stainless ring on one side of the cringle and the Antal ring on the other side. The Antal ring noticably reduced friction compared to running the reefing line through the cringle. Running the reefing line up and down on one side of the sail avoids crushing the sail against then boom when it is reefed. This was causing noticeable chafe on my main.

If I know that I am going to reef at the dock I can use the reefing hook and use the reefing line only for the clew.

My boat has a fairly small ~175sqft main sail. I can see why two line reefing might work better on a larger main sail as the loads go up.

Here is an image of the ring in use:










I don't like how this setup is trying to pull the padeye out of the mast, or that the line slides through there. I keep meaning to experiment with an alternative routing at that point.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have single line on first two reefs and double on third. Built boat and main to accommodate. Have blocks sewn into sail. Using dyneema/spectra lines. Deck set ups have minimal angles for bends and good blocks. Jeff is right you need to do everything possible to decrease friction. But with Dutchman I can hoist,reef and strike myself without leaving the cockpit. Unlike in boom I can go to a reach or stay on a beat trim the jib ease the main sheet reef and resume course without need to wake anyone. On single line reefs can shape a bit with halyard tension and not pulling reef way tight. More so then I would get from in boom. Have power on all winches but grind the last few inches when worrying about over tensioning.
Spaghetti is longer but less lines. Dump under hard dodger so non issue. Everything runs through clutches so winches left free. ( usually leave main sheet on winch with clutch open).
Don't like in boom.if you lose halyard whole sail pores on deck and would be uncontrollable for me.
Don't like in mast.have had jams and too much excitement.
So far single on first two and double on third has been just fine.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

thats kind of what I have liked and done too

good stuff


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Here's a simple solution for less friction in reef cringles, both single line and double line systems: Goïot roller reefing insert cringles http://www.goiot.com/pdf/p48a.pdf


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

This is a very interesting discussion, as I installed a two line-per-reef system last year.

The tack lines go up to a Gargauer block attached to the tack, then back down and back to the cockpit. This gives a 2:1 purchase at the tack. This works great with very little friction.

The clew lines just go through the clew eye, and there is more friction than I'd like. I tried a block there, but you could no longer pull the clew down far enough. A block with its associated piece of line attaching it to the clew, was too long overall.

I wonder if these low friction eyes would work instead?

Edit : just saw the Gioits, very cool


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

RichH, do you have experience with the Goiot roller cringles? I have seen adds for them over the years and have been intrigued but would like to get a testimonial before I pull the trigger. I have been pretty happy with the single line reefing set up on my 34. My biggest point of friction has been the (reefing) tack cringles. (Not so much a problem on the clew reefing cringles). I have tried the micro block and ring thing but the block has a nasty habit of flipping over and twisting the reefing line resulting in a heck of a lot more friction. The Goiot cringle, if it works, would be a perfect solution to my friction problem.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

My main has single line reefing with special blocks that get sewn right to the sail. Low fiction and works great.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

It seems, at least on my setup, that to get the mainsail fairly flat requires the ability to pull the clew right down to the boom. So only a block fixed right to the sail would work.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

MarkSF: You can make the dogbone quite short and achieve that with an Antal low friction ring. I'm using a longer soft shackle for my dogbone because that gives me the ability to also hook the stainless side onto the reefing hook.

The typical way to do these dogbones is with a piece of sewn webbing. Look at a high quality sail and you'll probably see them on there.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Yes the tack has a webbing dogbone, with rings on each end. I simply attached the block to the ring. The length of the webbing is not an issue at the tack. 

But at the clew it would be - I really need to get the clew right down to the boom.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

MarkSF said:


> This is a very interesting discussion, as I installed a two line-per-reef system last year.
> 
> The tack lines go up to a Gargauer block attached to the tack, then back down and back to the cockpit. This gives a 2:1 purchase at the tack. This works great with very little friction.
> 
> ...


My clew line go through the eye like this, don't think that using low friction rings would help much here.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

If you replaced one of the stainless rings on the dogbone with a low friction ring you would be able to get the clew right down to the boom. With a smaller sized ring you might be about 5-10mm lower than using the cringle itself. However you wouldn't crush the sail with the reefing line. The clew reef should be pulled pretty far back to flatten the sail so a lot of that 5-10mm would be horizontal, not vertical.

The Goiot insert mentioned earlier would let you get even lower.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

I dont have experience with the Goïot reefing cringles. I dont think I need them as my double line systems are fairly friction free ... or maybe my reefing technique is different than most.

I use 'slippery hand' reefing control lines and never have had a problem with friction during reefing, either when reefing from the mast or cockpit. I use all 'extra large' sewn-in rings with pressed brass eyelit liners in the rings. My practice is to reef my main when 'unloaded' (maybe just a wee bit of wind pressure in the leech to keep the sail 'quiet' and non-shaking) and in the shadow of a _drawing_ jib/genoa (on a close to high reach), and that prevents/lessens 'flogging' which I deem as the major cause of reefline friction (and knots).

As JeffH began to describe, the 'downside' of single line reefing systems (also applies to in-mast furling), to me, usually promotes a 'mismatch' of sail shape for the conditions / seastate. Such systems automatically tend to make a reefed sail into something approaching a board-flat piece of plywood ... all the camber/draft stretched out and with no way to adjust where the all important location of exactly where the '_point of maximum draft_' occurs. For punching into waves when going upwind you need POWER as from a _well cambered_ and _well drafted_ mainsail ... even a reefed or deep reefed sail. The act of reefing does reduce heeling but my question is: why do you want a FLAT shape (clew pulled to max. tension) that only generates speed but little power - power to 'punch'? With a single line reefing system if you loosen up on the clew cringle to obtain more draft (more power), the luff will correspondingly loosen which causes the 'point of max. draft' to move aft in the sail - hello 'weather helm'. If you overtighten (pulling BOTH luff and foot) youre left with a flat 'speed shape' which is only good in flat water and small waves and your forward progress in BIG waves 'goes to hell'. 
A double line reefing system allows you to independently select the correct sail 'edge' tensions for the present conditions and allows a means to control 'helm pressure'.

FWIW - For long distance cruising and when going 'upwind' into waves, I usually prefer to go directly into a deeper reef; but with a 'well powered up' shape by correctly easing the clew tension. Downwind and not sailing aerodynamically, the only important issue is the amount of 'sail area' exposed. 
For me reefing is only to do two things - keep the boat from skidding off to leeward because of excess heel and to prevent the boat from going past the speed of where 'death wobbles' occur.

Rx - Single line reefing, to me, does too many things all at the same time ... and you may not want some of these effects. 
Double line reefing systems allow 'flexibility' to meet the needs of the present conditions.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

RichH said:


> Rx - Single line reefing, to me, does too many things all at the same time ... and you may not want some of these effects.
> Double line reefing systems allow 'flexibility' to meet the needs of the present conditions.


Thank you and everybody who has contributed to this thread.

I think I have gone off the idea of single-line reefing and am now planning on the two-line approach.

I needed to buy and install new clutch and organizer anyway so now I will get them with additional capacity.

I'm going to the Boat Show tomorrow so buy shares in Garhauer....


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Ain't it grand when someone actually weighs advice and makes a decision rather than simply looking for validation? 

Good on ya, FWM!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have the same set up as Tim r. It works great.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> Thank you and everybody who has contributed to this thread.
> 
> I think I have gone off the idea of single-line reefing and am now planning on the two-line approach.
> 
> ...


I have a 4 way Garhauer clutch but it gets a little confusing with 4 reefing lines... might be best to have two two-ways, one for each reef

One point I'd like to make is that reefing systems with lines going back to the cockpit go wrong : you have a lot of components. So I left all the hardware in for the old reefing system, the hook at the tack, the cleats on the boom, so I can always reef the old fashioned way. I had to do this recently, as the 1st reef tack line came away from the mast. Just nipped forward and attached the tack to the hook instead.

Likewise if a block for the clew system fails, I just cleat the line at the boom instead.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

EPILOGUE

Clew outhaul tension, whether for a 'full up' or _reefed_ mainsail sets the amount of camber / draft. The general rule is FLAT sail for 'light winds' and flat water and full drafted for moderate winds and _bigger_ waves. FLAT is a 'speed' shape, well-drafted is a 'power' shape - high gear, low gear.

The real question is HOW TO CORRECTLY SET THE AMOUNT OF DRAFT (and with disregard of wholly _non-intuitive_ aerodynamics)
• In 'normal' conditions (typically less than 15kts.), and after attaining a reasonably perfect set/shape of your mainsail via its tell-tales, etc., go close-hauled and then ..... *simply adjust the amount of draft by outhaul tension until you get the MAXIMUM output reading on your SPEEDO* (or maximum VMG to be more precise). 
This will *automatically* correct for various wind/wave conditions, as you cant get any better than 'optimum'.

You'll notice by doing this 'watch the SPEEDO' when setting the outhaul that the amount of draft will be flattish (hihg gear) for those 'light and flukey' days, and for when at full design windstrength (about 15kts.); and quite full drafted between 10-15kts. You'll also note that 'the higher the waves' the more amount of draft will be needed (power setting or 2nd gear). Setting the amount of draft by watching the speedo is quick and easy. If the wind/wave conditions change during the day, simply readjust!!!!! 
You'll also notice over time that since the sail is set for 'optimum' draft you wont be surprised as much by sudden 'power-ups'. .... and no 'aerodynamics' required!!!!

To put this another way, your outhaul is equivalent to the gear shift on the transmission on a car ... and you dont want to always driving around in 'low' or 2nd gear unless of course youre going up a steep hill.

FWIW - I think a 6:1 or 8:1 outhaul system is the minimum.

;-)


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Perhaps the most common source of high friction in single line systems is line twist inside the boom (take a flashlight and look). This can practically lock it up.

Though it seems obvious that disassembly is required, the actual cure is generally to unwind the line coming from the winch. The aft line can't actually twist (both ends are secured) but the winch line often goes through a train of blocks that put a 1/16 turns on it every time it's used. This can be done simply enough in most cases, where the line exists the boom near the mast.

Take a look. I'm not saying that it is a good design or that I like them. But if you've got one,might as well understand it. If you can't pull in 90% of the line by hand, something is twisted or rigged wrong.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Agree with RichH but would point out as wind speed increases generally want a flatter sail to maintain the winds attachment to the sail and prevent loss of laminar flow. Also need to pay attention to where point of maximum draft is. Generally move this forward by halyard not out haul tension. Guess it depends on the boat and sails as with Dacron things stretch more. Seems with my current main I pretty much have the shape the sailmaker gave me.Mines moderate displacement so in a seaway even going upwind we are faster with a flat main, reefed if necessary with traveler down when it blows. Seems more important to keep the boat level then " powered up". Guess you just need to get out there and play.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think one of the causes for friction is having a block inside the boom like in the Schaffer system. If line goes from boom to clew to boom through boom up to tack down to low friction eye near gooseneck to deck to cockpit is best. It's easy to get twist out. If halyard is marked can drop near end point of reef and pull in single line by hand using winch for last little bit. Like pulling in reef as halyard is eased so nothing catches.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Jeff_H said:


> I have never seen a single line reefing system which actually worked very well. There tends to be a lot of friction, much higher line loads, and an absurd amount of line to haul. I have actually removed single line reefing from a couple of my boats after not being able to get decent sail shape when reefed and not being able to get a reef in quickly enough.
> .....
> 
> Jeff


Jeff, I use single line reefing since almost it appeared as an option on new boats more than 12 years ago. They evolved a lot in what regards the force needed and efficiency but I agree that two lines, or the old system whih only a line work better.

One of the biggest advantages of modern rigs is the ability to reef without going out of the cockpit and that translates in a much safer sailing specially in small boats (less than 50ft) and difficult weather. You can do it from the cockpit with two lines for each reef but that would translate in 6 blocks on the mast and 6 blockers on the cockpit and a huge number of lines. That is not practical.

Regarding sail shape, after many years of use I think the trick is to control the reefing lines with the high of the boom (trough a top lifting), I mean having the boom high when you reef and then putting him on the normal position given shape to the sail.

Also in what regards friction there has been a big evolution and on my actual boat you can reef by hand only using the winch to the last adjustment and not always needed.

Of course, if you sail with a crew you can always use the old system and go forward to pull down the sail till the reefing point and hook it while someone is letting it down and then have a single line to adjust the back of the sail, but for that you need a crew and have to leave the cockpit.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

flyingwelshman said:


> I want to rig my main with single-line reefing for the first two reefing points.
> My original thought was to put blocks on the sail at the reefing cringles. I wasn't to keen on the weight or aesthetics of that but I wanted to reduce the friction as much as possible.


I don't know the size of your boat. If not bigger than 36ft Goiot has this net solution:










If bigger and that is my case, I don't think it will work. I needed several blocks for a 12mm line (for the sail) and that Goiot system is too small. In the Dusseldorf boat show I went searching for a light small one and I get lucky. After passing for some very nice but incredibly expensive light blocks with a textile connection (225 euros each) I found out a manufacturer that makes a block not very different in size from this:










and for up to 12mm line with a textile connection. I am going to command three directly from the guy that was on the boat show (manufacturer). The price was 80 euros each but he said he could do a better price. If you are interested pm me and I will send you the contact.

Regards

Paulo


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