# Cruising On A Cal 20



## willykunkle

After reading the article in Sailing MAgazine about K.P. Chin sailing to Hawaii on a Cal 20 I feel very inspired. I am planning on a trip from Portland, OR to Mexico and Central America this next summer on a Cal 20. Anybody done anything similar on a Cal 20 or other pocket cruiser??

I would encourage anybody to read the article!!


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## TSOJOURNER

Is there a reason that half the people here seem Hell-bent on trying to see the world via sailboat on $17.00 budgets? I really just don't get it, Kids. My advice is that blue water cruising and circumnavigating entails a boat of at least 30 feet, well built, a year to prep and practice on her, some well made gear, some research and a strict exercise program to adhere to. This "He did it on a Laser" crap is a recipe for possible disaster at the worst, but more probably at least utter disapointment most of the time. Just save up and buy the proper tool for the job. Like anything else.........


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## willykunkle

Read John Vigor's "20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere". He STRONGLY disagrees with you. Not everyone can afford a 50k+ for a boat. Maybe you're sick of young, capable people with big plans, personally I'm kinda getting sick of old elitist yuppies who think you need to be born rich to sail a boat.


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## TSOJOURNER

Willy,

I have been in contact with a guy who took a boat just like mine to the Bahamas. That doesn't make it a good idea and I don't plan to do it. It's nice to know that someone pushed the limits and got away with it. I understand why people do it. It sounds really exciting and I can imagine myself doing it and it is a fun little mental exercise. 

How much experience do you have? Are you talking about sneaking along the coast ducking into protected anchorages along the way?

Rick,

$17.00 ?!?! Aw man, I gotta save my allowance for three more weeks!


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## TSOJOURNER

willykunkle said:


> Read John Vigor's "20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere". He STRONGLY disagrees with you. Not everyone can afford a 50k+ for a boat. Maybe you're sick of young, capable people with big plans, personally I'm kinda getting sick of old elitist yuppies who think you need to be born rich to sail a boat.


Where did you get elitist yuppy? He didn't say you had to spend a lot of money on the boat, he just advised a larger one, some of which can be had for the right price, and some preparation, including a good exercise regimen...why the personal attack on someone trying to give good advice?


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## willykunkle

DJ-

Hey sorry about that, I didn't mean it to sound so hostile. It doesn't seem like Rick was really trying to give any advice, just belittle me and discourage me.


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## TSOJOURNER

willykunkle said:


> Read John Vigor's "20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere". He STRONGLY disagrees with you. Not everyone can afford a 50k+ for a boat. Maybe you're sick of young, capable people with big plans, personally I'm kinda getting sick of old elitist yuppies who think you need to be born rich to sail a boat.


It's just solid advice, Pal. Take it or leave it. And just because Vigor says you can doesn't mean crap. Because everyone knows that the boat (a good one at least) will usually fare better than the person driving it.

And 50K is the perfect number for people seriously considering off shore work. Ten K is not even remotely close.

BTW, are YOU capable? That's by far the most important question........

And trust me, Yuppie is the last thing I am. I'm the youngest 50 y/o kid you'll ever meet. I live in go-heads and shorts and listen to AFI and Linkin' Park. And I love to share my adventures with kids and give advice and encourage them when I can. Safely and wisely, that is--not foolishly. But hey, have at it. And next time your here in So Cal, catch the Cal 20 fleet at work when it's blowing 22. That may cure you of your unrealistic dreams..........


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## Tartan34C

RickLaPaz said:


> Is there a reason that half the people here seem Hell-bent on trying to see the world via sailboat on $17.00 budgets? I really just don't get it, Kids. My advice is that blue water cruising and circumnavigating entails a boat of at least 30 feet, well built, a year to prep and practice on her, some well made gear, some research and a strict exercise program to adhere to. This "He did it on a Laser" crap is a recipe for possible disaster at the worst, but more probably at least utter disapointment most of the time. Just save up and buy the proper tool for the job. Like anything else.........


After all these years I am very sorry to find out that I was only fooling myself when I did trans Atlantic trips on 22 footers, 27 footers 30 footers etc. At the time I thought I was having fun.

Willy,
A 20 foot Cal is a little light for my taste. You might have problems carrying enough provisions because carrying capacity and the boats displacement are related. The heaver the boat the more weight you can carry is a general rule. Also the smaller boat doesn't work to windward in any kind of a headwind so you need to be very careful about your choice of route. And the usual caveats about preparing both yourself and the boat.
Good luck and enjoy,
Robert Gainer


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## willykunkle

Arbarnhart-
I've grown up sailing with my dad. We've cruised the Columbia River, Puget Sound, and the San Juan/Gulf Islands very extensively. Yes, this will be my biggest trip to date, but I don't see any reason I wouldn't be capable of it. 

Thanks for the response!

Willy


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## Freesail99

Rick, so I now know I'm not cool, cause I have no idea what go-heads are, lol


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## sailingdog

Just because others have done it... doesn't necessarily mean it is a good idea. A 20' sailboat is awfully small...and a Cal 20 is awfully lightly built for a trans-oceanic crossing. In the 20' range, you might look at Pacific Seacraft Flickas, which are probably a lot more suitable. 

Also, it would depend a lot on your experience... if you're very experienced, you might be able to make that voyage on a SeaSprite 22 or something similar... but you'd really have to know the boat, keep a good eye on the weather and be prepared to take your lumps when you get out there.


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## TSOJOURNER

Willy,

What about my second question:

_Are you talking about sneaking along the coast ducking into protected anchorages along the way?_

I would have a completely different opinion of that than a blue water cruise. In a few rare cases, a small boat can actually be preferable (some long stretches with inlets that are too shallow for large boats). But, some of the hairiest water around is inlets with tidal currents and skirting shore lines means there are always nearby shallows and/or rocks to get blown into in a storm. So, while I would have a different opinion, I have to admit I am not sure what it is. Also, I am not one of the more experienced sailors - this is more thinking out loud and repeating what I have read.


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## willykunkle

arbarnhart said:


> Willy,
> 
> What about my second question:
> 
> _Are you talking about sneaking along the coast ducking into protected anchorages along the way?_


Yes sir, I was planning on just heading up the coast, not too far from shore.


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## JimHawkins

*Willy - go the other way!*



RickLaPaz said:


> Is there a reason that half the people here seem Hell-bent on trying to see the world via sailboat on $17.00 budgets? I really just don't get it, Kids. My advice is that blue water cruising and circumnavigating entails a boat of at least 30 feet...


Hey Willy,
I've got a great idea for you. Instead of going west past Hawaii and through the Suez to get to get to Mexico and Central America, you could just heads south. It's true you'd have to go past California, but don't worry, it seems the people there don't pay any attention to what you say anyway.


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## TSOJOURNER

Freesail99 said:


> Rick, so I now know I'm not cool, cause I have no idea what go-heads are, lol


*
"In the beginning, there were Go-heads, and they were da kine................"*


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## willykunkle

JimHawkins said:


> Hey Willy,
> I've got a great idea for you. Instead of going west past Hawaii and through the Suez to get to get to Mexico and Central America, you could just heads south. It's true you'd have to go past California, but don't worry, it seems the people there don't pay any attention to what you say anyway.


Hey Jim!!

Yeah that's what I was planning on. I think people are getting the wrong idea of what I was suggesting. I'm not planning a trans-pacific trip circumnavigating the earth to get to Mexico. It's directly due south of Oregon!

Thanks for the help!


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## TSOJOURNER

Well, you two sure showed me right there. WTF was I ever thinking? The weather and the north-west coast of California is absolutely perfectly made for a Cal 20. That's why there are so many charter companies in Coos Bay.....


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## sailingdog

Even doing a coastal voyage down the west coast of the USA is going to be problematic in a Cal 20. Some of the worst stretches of water you can run into are along that way, with few ports of refuge and in many cases a bad lee shore situation... so heading out is often the best option... and in a Cal 20, I doubt you would be able to do that. 

In some ways, a trans-oceanic voyage can be less dangerous, since you tend to have fewer things you can run into, as well as fewer lee shore type obstacles in your way. One friend of mine has pointed out that the most dangerous part of a long voyage is generally the start and finish, as you leave and approach land. Boats do fine when they have water under them... less well when they have land to hit.


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## willykunkle

Sailingdog-

Hmmm that's definitely something to think about. I'll just have to do plenty of research.


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## TSOJOURNER

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi...r=Cape Dory&view_records=1&sb=date&so=descend

http://www.marinesource.com/boat_sales/pacific_seacraft_sloop_6410470.html


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## dogsailors

willyknuckle I am sure that the san juans could keep you busy for some time, make your focus smaller to begin with so that you can get a better grasp on what exactly you want to look for in a larger boat as well as the bare nessisities you will need.As far as ssmall boats go anyone who sailed around the world in a boat under 26 feet bought it brand new. Cal also made the 29-9 which a gentleman just recently sailed around the world in I believe it was a 60s model. Check out ready for sea by Tor Pinney. It has a great bare minimum list.I know for a fact you can buy a cal 34 for $10,000 bucks and some would dare to say take it anywhere.


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## willykunkle

Thanks Rick!

I hear those little Cape Dory's are great. 

P.S. I;ve seen AFI 6 times!


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## willykunkle

dogsailors said:


> willyknuckle I am sure that the san juans could keep you busy for some time, make your focus smaller to begin with so that you can get a better grasp on what exactly you want to look for in a larger boat as well as the bare nessisities you will need.As far as ssmall boats go anyone who sailed around the world in a boat under 26 feet bought it brand new. Cal also made the 29-9 which a gentleman just recently sailed around the world in I believe it was a 60s model. Check out ready for sea by Tor Pinney. It has a great bare minimum list.I know for a fact you can buy a cal 34 for $10,000 bucks and some would dare to say take it anywhere.


i'll check that cal 34 out. thanks!


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## TSOJOURNER

willykunkle said:


> Thanks Rick!
> 
> P.S. *I;ve seen AFI 6 times*!


What are you, some sort of little kid with a boat addiction?..........


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## willykunkle

RickLaPaz said:


> What are you, some sort of little kid with a boat addiction?..........


ha! well not far off...


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## dogsailors

you could always fly out to the east coast buy any old boat and take it to mexico via the intercoastal waterway. we used to sail a san juan 21 that i picked up for $2000 everywhere in the ditch, it runs from the hudson river to mex. and key west is on the way.


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## TSOJOURNER

Here's an interesting montage of when things go unwell.

(And no, I not trying to scare anyone, this just showed up on another board and the photography is quite good)..........

http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sailH/index.asp

Clicky on the first pic and it should go to full screen slide show mode. Very impressive photage...


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## willykunkle

whoa that is scary!


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## camaraderie

Willy...I think you need a better sea boat...like the cape dory's...not necessarily bigger...for the trip you are planning. Unlike the East Coast there is nowhere to duck in on your section of coast when the weather gets nasty AND you will be battling currents against you. 
Another thought is to buy your boat in CAL and avoid the worst of the trip that way...get used to the boat at sea on the way to Mex and then make your "ocean" decisions from there. It is easier sailing TO oregon than from Oregon!


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## TSOJOURNER

If there are any Alberg 22's around your area they are decent sea boats that are not too expensive...


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## byrondv

dogsailors said:


> As far as ssmall boats go anyone who sailed around the world in a boat under 26 feet bought it brand new.


Really? You sure?


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## sailingdog

Well, Tania Aebi did buy her boat new. Webb Chiles, IIRC, bought his Drascombe Lugger new as well... but I don't think that is true of everyone who has circumnavigated in a boat less than 27' long though.


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## sailaway21

While he did not circumnavigate, I'm fairly certain HM's Captain Bligh did not have a new long boat. I'm not really at all sure that he did that much of a thorough preperation for his voyage either. I'm reasonably sure he was a damn fine seaman.

One might look up William B. Trescott's video on "How to Equip a Trailer-Sailer for Serious Cruising". Crossed the Atlantic in his and cruised all over Europe. On the way back he got a brief ride on the back of a sperm whale. Practical Sailor had a nice review of he and the video. His gel-coat looked decidely pitted, he didn't have a solar-stix, and so I presume his boat was not new. (g)


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## sailingdog

Captain Bligh didn't exactly have a choice in which vessels he could take...


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## Tartan34C

sailingdog said:


> Captain Bligh didn't exactly have a choice in which vessels he could take...


I thought you were going to say he didn't have a light displacement fin keel boat.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

A believer that when young go small go now.


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## sailingdog

ROFLMAO... that too... 


Tartan34C said:


> I thought you were going to say he didn't have a light displacement fin keel boat.
> All the best,
> Robert Gainer
> 
> A believer that when young go small go now.


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## Jim H

I co-own and rebuilt a Cal 20 on the Columbia, and it's a great boat, but I agree that there's better offshore choices that might add significant amounts of safety for not much more cost. 

Just a couple of weeks ago, my brother scored a Bristol 24 on Portland's Craigslist for $1,000. It's solid overall, with some work needed, but I don't think his overall costs will be more than $3-4k to have a safe and ready boat. 

I also met a Cal 25 owner who took it annually off-shore out of the Columbia River and up to Puget Sound and back. As you know, Cal 25s can show up for $1-2k as well.

Good luck!

Jim H


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## TSOJOURNER

Rick,
So wearing shower curtains is all the rage these days with the Linkin Park crowd?


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## TSOJOURNER

Bardo said:


> Rick,
> So wearing shower curtains is all the rage these days with the Linkin Park crowd?


Nice one! Maybe I'll run that by the kids and see if they can start the a new trend. This being L.A. and all..............

(Now go back and look at the GO-HEADS portrayed on said curtain---And bonus points to whoever can first tell me why they were named that.)


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## copacabana

Go-Heads? I thought they were called flip-flops!


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## belliegirl2

Buy the cal 20 in long beach or other so cal marina and sail from there to mexico. Ive sailed from long beach to mexico and its a pretty easy trip from there, my parents stopped me and a buddy from sailing his hobie 16 to mexico from there when we were 15.


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## kwaltersmi

What was the helmsman thinking taking the boat between the south tower and the shoreline in that kind of a break? Sticking between the towers on the GGB would have been much safer and very well may have avoided the incident. Even in nasty weather, there is rarely a break under the middle of the bridge due to the extreme currents and deep water. I've been in some nasty big swells off of Bonita Point and Diablo Point in an 18 footer and made it in under the middle just fine. This looks like mostly human error and bad judgement.



RickLaPaz said:


> Here's an interesting montage of when things go unwell.
> 
> (And no, I not trying to scare anyone, this just showed up on another board and the photography is quite good)..........
> 
> http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sailH/index.asp
> 
> Clicky on the first pic and it should go to full screen slide show mode. Very impressive photage...


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## kwaltersmi

Have you seen the rescue from that incident? Now here's something to fear under the GGB:










Gotta love photoshop!


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## sailaway21

As usual Mr. Ganier brings up an excellent point. Captain Bligh sailed his longboat because it was the only boat he had. I suspect Robert crossed the Atlantic in his boat for much the same reason. There are countless threads here devoted to the ideal cruising boat, if not the ideal deep sea boat. I suspect that many young people do not feel that they have the time, money, and certainly not the patience to acquire that lightly used Swan and end up saying, "screw it, this is what I got, I'm going".

I believe there was a post not that long back about someone in the Caribbean watching for a break in the weather, when a 24 footer sailed into harbor. Inquiring on where the young German (?) man had come from he received the reply, "Africa". Inquiring further as to how he'd gotten here, the young man replied, "I headed west". I may be off in the details but I think it illustrates Mr. Ganier's point quite well; "go small, go young, go now".


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## sailaway21

Extra credit?
I actually call them "go-aheads" and the reason is that you can't back up in flip-flops, you can only walk forward or go ahead.


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## TSOJOURNER

sailaway21 said:


> Extra credit?
> I actually call them "go-aheads" and the reason is that you can't back up in flip-flops, you can only walk forward or go ahead.


Nicely done, Sir.

_"Tell us what our contestant has won, Johnny"............_


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## sailaway21

Please don't tell me it's a copy of, "Grilling with the Cruising Dad".


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## TSOJOURNER

sailaway21 said:


> Please don't tell me it's a copy of, "Grilling with the Cruising Dad".


Haven't heard of that one, but if you like to cook, try this oldie but goody. My fave for cruising--and at home......

And no, I'm not gonna send you a copy on my peso.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TERENCE-JANERIC...goryZ378QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


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## Tartan34C

sailaway21 said:


> Captain Bligh sailed his longboat because it was the only boat he had. I suspect Robert crossed the Atlantic in his boat for much the same reason. There are countless threads here devoted to the ideal cruising boat, if not the ideal deep sea boat. I suspect that many young people do not feel that they have the time, money, and certainly not the patience to acquire that lightly used Swan and end up saying, "screw it, this is what I got, I'm going".


As a teenager I did a lot of sailing in a 22 foot Sea Sprite daysailor. When I was getting ready to do my first trans-Atlantic in 1974 I arranged sponsorship and had a Sea Sprite weekender built for the trip. That trip and the deals that made it possible started to come together in 1971 when I was only 18. She was not quite a stock boat but close to it. I had decided that sailing was what I wanted to do and turning my trips into sponsored events was the way I paid for everything. It was clear to me that if I did the conventional thing and worked first and then sailed after retirement I would be, as I am today old and tired when I started doing long distance sailing so I wanted to sail first and then retire from the world of professional sailing into a sailing related job and settle down. I never quite got the settle down part right but I did get into the boat design/build/repair business.

I don't understand where most people get the impression that small boat sailing is tough or dangerous. At one time long distance cruising in decked sailing canoes was normal and trips of over a thousand miles were not uncommon. The British still have a yearly trip from England to Iceland by kayak. There is a class of 17 foot boats that used to race trans Atlantic on a regular basis and of course a lot of small boats are out there doing long trips without any fanfare at all and most of you just don't hear of them. Sometimes I think the most vocal opponents of small boat voyaging are the people with the least experience with or knowledge about the subject. I have cruised in boats as small as 13 feet and most of my long trips were done on boats without engines or electrical systems. In fact my first crossing was on a boat that was a real sailboat and she didn't have an engine. And let's not get started on the subject of GPS instead of sextant. Today you don't need to know a third of what you needed to know before modern gear and GPS became popular. Long distance sailing has become safer and simpler then ever before. And in a strange twist I think that may spell the end of long distance sailing was we know it today. As more people try it without proper preparations and using larger boats that they can't handle in an emergency the governments have taken notice and started to think about regulation because of the increase in accidents and problems that go with inexperience and ignorance offshore.

Is a Cal 20 suitable for the trip this gentleman is considering? If you have decided to base your plans on a light displacement boat the Cal 20 is an excellent choice for offshore work. She can be made ready with a minimum amount of work and I think if you do your homework and prepare properly you will have a great time. Not my style in boats but still a great choice. Each boat is different and requires a plan written for the trip/boat combination. I like to sail in CCA style boats but have enough experience in light boats to understand the attraction they have for some people. A light boat requires a different mindset for stores and storm tactics and definitely will not be able to sail on the same routes that a heaver boat could sail. But there are no problems about the Cal 20 and the trip this man is considering that good planning couldn't overcome.

After everything is said and done as far as the boat goes the biggest question becomes one about the person himself. Some people don't ever get comfortable in a small boat and some find that being alone and out of sight of land is not as much fun as they expected. Small boat sailing isn't for everyone and that's fine. Build up to it and make sure you really want to do it before committing to a long trip you might not enjoy. But as someone else said, go small go now, and I think he was right because you are young and capable only once and having money and larger boats comes with age. And age dulls the sense of adventure and kills the spirit. I have never regretted for a moment the sailing I did as a kid but would not do any of it today. I sail a Tartan 34C now and want a dry warm bunk these days.
Good luck and all the best,
Robert Gainer


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## TSOJOURNER

Very nice, Mr. Gainer. You took the 612 words right out of my mouth............


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## TSOJOURNER

sailaway21 said:


> As usual Mr. Ganier brings up an excellent point. Captain Bligh sailed his longboat because it was the only boat he had. I suspect Robert crossed the Atlantic in his boat for much the same reason. There are countless threads here devoted to the ideal cruising boat, if not the ideal deep sea boat. I suspect that many young people do not feel that they have the time, money, and certainly not the patience to acquire that lightly used Swan and end up saying, "screw it, this is what I got, I'm going".


That is pretty much the story with the guy I contacted who crossed over to the Bahamas in a boat just like mine. He didn't even have it exactly; someone loaned it to him. It was available and he didn't run into anything he could not handle. That doesn't make it a wise choice; another boat would have given him a wider margin of safety with respect to what he could handle. But he didn't purchase a boat, so his choice was yes or no. Our young friend who started this thread has more choices.


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## willykunkle

Mr. Gainer you've hit the nail directly on the head. GO SMALL, GO YOUNG, GO NOW. I don't have much money, but I have lot of drive and ambition. I don't need a lot of food or sleep, I just need to go.

My trip will be very well researched and planned, this is why I've given myself almost a year to do so (which is a very long time for someone my age!). 

Some of you may think I'm foolish, but how else will I learn, except by just doing it?

Thanks to everybody on here for all the encouragement, as well as the challenging replies!


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## cockeyedbob

Willy

Bet your one of those folks who drive 'round town.

Ya give no thought to jousting with another, closing at 80+ mph, passing with 6' clearance, trusting they ain't drunk, yackin' on the phone, figurin' the GPS, slappin' the kids, lightin' the ***, changin' the station, eatin', spillin' the coffee, or fiddlin' wit da willie ... just to get somewhere ya probably didn't need to go in the first place. That's nuts!

Go ... have a bail-out plan and look at the bright side. It's less expensive to cut up and haul a 20 footer off the beach than a 40 footer. If yer dead, just think of all the taxes you're gonna get outta payin', and, best of all, no Hillary forever!


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## campuscab

I am going to take mine next year from Miami to the Bahamas. I figure after a year of sailing on the great lakes i should be able to handle it no problem. You should not have to be rich to enjoy sailing. I could have bought a bigger boat and I am sure I will. The boat can handle the trip. The reason is the adventure, and accomplishment. It us just being different. So I,think training and outfitting are the key. I have done many dangerous things in my life safely. The trick is being prepared for the worst and plan for the best.


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