# Rigging jacklines



## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

So I'm doing lots of projects on my boat in preparation for a relaunch (hopefully) in April, because I'm scheduled to do a four-day sail in late April.

I likely will single-hand the four-day trip, so I want to rig jacklines - the boat has none right now.

I've read the several threads that I can find here on SailNet and also have done some Googling, so I've done a bunch of research and I think I'm arriving at an answer, but I figure what the heck? Why not start another thread on jacklines? 

But seriously, one thing I noted in my research is a whole discussion between running a jackline down the center of the deck versus two jacklines, one on each side deck.

I like the looks of the Wichard LyfSafe jackline kit, mostly because it's completely adjustable for length and looks to be very quick and easy to install.

So I'm leaning towards one jackline on each side deck, and when going forward, always go on the high (windward) side.

The other thing I have found very little discussion of is rigging a lifeline in the cockpit. I plan on putting a folding D ring in each end of the cockpit, at the centerline, and then rigging some kind of jackline between them. I might have to get something custom made to fit the length - either that or just tie a good knot or get some good hardware, of the sort used on the LyfSafe line.

I'd love to see pictures of what you've rigged as far as jacklines.

Thanks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I wrote a post about this very topic on my blog... you can read it *HERE*.

As for one or two, I would say rig one down each side of the boat. That way you can clip into the high side of the boat and don't have to unclip to make your way forward, the way you sometimes do with a single jackline run down the centerline.

I'm not a big fan of plastic hardware for jacklines, since the stuff generally degrades with UV exposure and there's little way to check it for damage short of testing it under load, and if it fails, you will probably be very unhappy then.  My favorite jackline setup is one that uses 1/4" or 5/16" dyneema or spectra single braid line inside 1" tubular webbing. The webbing prevents the jacklines from rolling underfoot, helps protect the line from chafe and UV, and makes the jacklines readily and easily identifiable at night.

The idea of adding folding padeyes to the cockpit as anchor points for a short cockpit jackline is a good one, but use the large folding padeyes, as the loads on a jackline can be quite high and the medium and small padeyes don't have a high enough BL generally. 


ilikerust said:


> So I'm doing lots of projects on my boat in preparation for a relaunch (hopefully) in April, because I'm scheduled to do a four-day sail in late April.
> 
> I likely will single-hand the four-day trip, so I want to rig jacklines - the boat has none right now.
> 
> ...


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Ditto what SD wrote. 

My preference, following Brion Toss' opinion, is always to use knots, rather than fittings where ever practical. I see no need to splice a shackle on the end of a line so as to attach it to a fitting when a buntline hitch or a round turn and two half hitches will suffice. I also do not like to buy things that I can make myself.


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

Best quote on the subject, which I found in a thread over at the Cruiser's Forum:



> Our rule of thumb is to only wear harnesses and clip on when we don't want to die, which is most of the time.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

ilikerust said:


> Best quote on the subject, which I found in a thread over at the Cruiser's Forum:


Which is why they should be permanently installed (our are) and factory installed, like seat belts. Actually, I do understand; they weren't always factory on cars.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

pdqaltair said:


> Which is why they should be permanently installed (our are) and* factory installed*, like seat belts. Actually, I do understand; they weren't always factory on cars.


I don't know, given the the horrendous deck ergonomics I see on many of today's boats, the builder is the LAST one I'd trust to devise a system configured to best keep me aboard&#8230; To carry on with your seat belt analogy, should we be expected to believe a manufacturer whose product performs miserably in crash tests, compensates for poor engineering and design by installing _really good seatbelts_? (grin)

On a boat the size of the original poster, I've really come to favor the use fixed tethers at the base of the mast, just long enough to clip onto before leaving the cockpit&#8230; I have 4 fixed tethers on my boat, 2 at the mast coming aft P & S, one on the foredeck, and one in the cockpit&#8230;

I have wire jacklines covered with webbing, as well&#8230; but since I've added the fixed tethers, I find myself rarely using them, the fixed tethers are so much more user friendly for me&#8230; Most importantly, once you get to the mast, you can easily shorten them by cleating them off at chest height, leaving both hands free. If I go forward, I can easily be double-tethered, and the one in the cockpit allows me to just reach the windvane, nothing more&#8230;

Of course, such a system becomes a bit more problematic on a larger boat, but on most boats under 40' or so, it should be pretty workable&#8230; The big advantage is that your point of attachment is always on the centerline of the boat as opposed to the side decks, and I find myself much more likely to use it in those marginal conditions when I wonder, "do I really need to clip on this time?" (grin)


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Although a noob, I normally rig two jacklines, one on either side; but I often wonder/consider, why not also have an additional loop around the mast? My lines mainly end at the mast (not led back to the cockpit), so it would seem logical to have a "jack loop" around the mast, as I often spend time up there.

Yeah, I can reach the mast from the normal jack lines, but keeping close to the mast without wrapping my arms around it would also seem useful...


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## jnorten (Aug 18, 2009)

Sailrite has free instructions on their website for building your own jacklines:
Making your own Jackline Instructions

And of course, they sell the stuff to build it yourself.

Most recently the skipper I crewed for rigged one long line--cleated to the port side stern cleat. It laid on the side deck all the way up to the bow. You could clip in at the cockpit and walk clear to the bow without unclipping. At the bow, it somehow turned and then repeated the port side thing along the starboard side. You adjusted tension at the starboard side stern cleat.

He used a round cross-section line. However, I've also crewed on a boat that used webbing--which as already mentioned doesn't roll underfoot.

For the safety these lines afford, the inconvenience is minimal.

I've also simply run my tether around the mast and clipped both sides of my tether to my harness. Additionally, we've also clipped to a small line tied around the steering pedestal.


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

jnorten said:


> Additionally, we've also clipped to a small line tied around the steering pedestal.


I'm far from an expert, but in researching this for some time today, I found at least three different places that said not to use the steering pedestal as a hard point for a jackline or to tether to, because it's not designed to take the kind of strain involved in keeping a person from falling off the boat. They said that if you did fall, you could actually tear the pedestal out or damage it.

Just an observation and something to consider.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Murphy's Law will always make one line up the middle be on the wrong side of the mast for what you want to do. With two lines, you go to a 50% chance: much better odds. I would worry about using knots to attach them to the (very solid) hardware unless the ends were sewed as well. Pants held up with belts AND suspenders tend to stay up. We use wire, P&S, shackled to a D-ring in the deck forward and back to the toerails by the cockpit, aft.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

ilikerust said:


> I'd love to see pictures of what you've rigged as far as jacklines.


Below is what ours look like. We run one down each side of the deck, attached to the bow cleats at the bow and clipped to our perforated aluminum toe-rail toward the stern. We've found that adding a few twists in the jackline (if they're webbing) makes it easier to pick-up when trying to clip in. I'm also a fan of carrying two tether of different lengths so you have flexibility and security in terms how far you can move from the jackline to work.

Instead of adding a separate jackine in the cockpit, why not just add one or two strategically placed D-rings/padeyes that have backing plates for holding power? That way you can just clip your tether to the d-ring and have mobility in the cockpit without being able to be tossed over. Unless you have an abnormally large cockpit, I can't see why this would work and it would actually cut down on clutter. I plan to add one to my cockpit this spring so I don't have to clip to the highside toe rail when in the cockpit.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

kwaltersmi said:


> Below is what ours look like. We run one down each side of the deck, attached to the bow cleats at the bow and clipped to our perforated aluminum toe-rail toward the stern. We've found that adding a few twists in the jackline (if they're webbing) makes it easier to pick-up when trying to clip in. I'm also a fan of carrying two tether of different lengths so you have flexibility and security in terms how far you can move from the jackline to work.
> 
> Instead of adding a separate jackine in the cockpit, why not just add one or two strategically placed D-rings/padeyes that have backing plates for holding power? That way you can just clip your tether to the d-ring and have mobility in the cockpit without being able to be tossed over. Unless you have an abnormally large cockpit, I can't see why this would work and it would actually cut down on clutter. I plan to add one to my cockpit this spring so I don't have to clip to the highside toe rail when in the cockpit.


Nice set up. You might get a straighter run by attaching to the toe rail just forward of your spin pole.

Agree 100% on using pad eyes in the cockpit. I like one in each corner.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Does anyone have a pic of the pad eyes that are being suggested? Also, towards the front of the cockpit for them or the rear? One at the front and one at the rear?


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

cb32863 said:


> Does anyone have a pic of the pad eyes that are being suggested? Also, towards the front of the cockpit for them or the rear? One at the front and one at the rear?


There are some on this page. They need a backing plate to take the strain.

Stainless Steel Pad Eyes, A4 - 316 Marine Fixings

I mentioned earlier - I like one in each corner at least, maybe one just forward of the binnacle.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Here's what we do. Our set up is similar. Wichard shackles either to the forward mooring cleat or the foreguy pad eye. They are cleat hitched on the aft cleats. I prefer to lay the jack line flat as I find the "twists" to be more of tripping hazard than an aid in clipping in. The double tether is handy on the fore peak, but again, I find it to be a nuisance when in the cockpit. ISAF Cat2 requires a hard point to clip into before exiting the companionway. We installed a large folding padeye to satisfy this requirement which satisfies my local OYRA. I also run one (or sometimes two) jack lines down the cockpit, terminating them into a pair of folding padeyes using a water knot. I also have a dedicated hardpoint for the helmsman. This hard point can be a PITA to clip into, especially at night, but is real nice to brace your foot when the boat is heeling. My backing plates are SS where you can see them in living spaces and G2 where they aren't.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GeorgeB—

If you run the jacklines taut, then the twists are not a pain, the whistling and moaning the webbing makes when the wind blows across them is...and the twists prevent that. Pete Goss wrote in one of his books that he cut his jacklines because the noise from them was driving him crazy.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

When they're run inside the stays, do you walk down the cabin trunk then?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

GeorgeB said:


> I also have a dedicated hardpoint for the helmsman. This hard point can be a PITA to clip into, especially at night, but is real nice to brace your foot when the boat is heeling.


One word of caution about your setup shown...

You really don't want to use the sort of tether clip shown with a rigid padeye like that... It's possible for the hook to become situated in such a way that a force on the tether can cause it to open... Here's a pic that illustrates how easily this can happen - personally, I wouldn't use this sort of hook on a tether in any case...










Either switch to a double action safety hook like those from Wichard or Gibb, or run a Spectra loup through the padeye, and hook onto that instead...


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> One word of caution about your setup shown...
> 
> You really don't want to use the sort of tether clip shown with a rigid padeye like that... It's possible for the hook to become situated in such a way that a force on the tether can cause it to open... Here's a pic that illustrates how easily this can happen - personally, I wouldn't use this sort of hook on a tether in any case...
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree. I had one of those clips come off a jackline as I was moving forward in the middle of the night in the middle of the Pacific. Needless to say, I developed an instance bias. I would not even use one on the Spectra loop.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I wouldn't do the 'stand up' pad eyes in the cockpit or where they can be tripped over. You can use these








No need for a jackline IN the cockpit, just a pad eye at the companionway so you can clip in before leaving the cabin. Clip in, climb out. Climb in, unclip. Then add another so the driver can clip in.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Good questions/comments.

Taut with twists – I still like them flat (call me anal retentive). I have never really had a problem with them vibrating and flat is really, really important in a confined space like my cockpit. I will make them taught in harbor before I leave, and in the case of the water knot, there isn’t a practical way of re-tying them once underway. I do not like to pre wet-pre stretch them I believe that that will weaken them over time. Besides half the time we come in after dark and I usually wait until the next morning to take them down and by that time they have shrunk back to their original length.

Routing the jack lines inside the stays - Yes, you wind up scampering over the coach roof/sides, but I don’t find that much of a problem. If they were outside, you would have a problem squeezing between the shrouds and Genoa clew/sheet. Besides, most of the time I (or my crew) only go as far as the mast anyway (reef, adjust Cunningham, outhaul). Also, I like the more secure feeling you get on the leward side when doing things like adjusting the leech line, strop straps or preventer when the boom is extended past the toe rail. I also require my watch captains (as well as myself) to “walk the boat” before they take over at shift change so having a clean run on both sides is important. 

<OTethers – What? That tether is state of the art Wichard – from about twenty years ago! Remember those days before fancy double action clips and elastic liners? Brings up a good point. Tethers, harnesses, PFDs, etc. are personal gear and if you show up on a boat without yours – you get to use the “boat’s” gear which usually means a cast-off from years ago. 

<OI like a centerline cockpit jack line as it makes it easier to move around people without always having to unclip and re-clip. This is especially useful at night time shift changes for the driver when two guys are manouvering around in a space intended only for one and trying to unclip and clip into that single pad eye at the same time. I started out with the diamond pad eye and later went to the center line jack line and I can tell you from personal experience, it is a whole lot better.

<ONotes on the photos – These shots were from a series of a couple hundred I took as part of a rig survey Biron Toss did for me. As I was going up and down the mast a bunch and concentrating on my more important rigging issues, I didn’t spend too much effort in staging the jack line photos. I used the old Wichard tether as it was the only one that dangled somewhat straight as I was mainly concerned about the distance of the diamond pad eye to the helm and not so much as using it as a teaching aid. 

<OThe one, unasked question – Get lime yellow webbing. At night under red lighting, the red looks like blue and the blue blends into the darkness. You want a color that contrasts to everything else you have on deck. My orange are OK during the day, but for night I’d prefer lime. You can get your local sail maker to make jack lines for less than you buy them at West and you get them in the color and size you want.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GeorgeB said:


> <o><o><o><o>The one, unasked question - Get lime yellow webbing. At night under red lighting, the red looks like blue and the blue blends into the darkness. You want a color that contrasts to everything else you have on deck. My orange are OK during the day, but for night I'd prefer lime. You can get your local sail maker to make jack lines for less than you buy them at West and you get them in the color and size you want.


Chartreuse, safety orange, lime green, and reflective stripe webbing are also available. All are excellent choices and quite visible. 
</o></o></o></o>


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

The Wichard LyfSafe jackline is reflective. In the instructions for installation and use, it recommends wearing a headlamp at night, which will light up the jackline. 

I'm leaning towards the LyfSafe, as it comes in a convenient kit and it looks like a pretty good setup.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I've been searching for some reflective jackline material but can't seem to find any that aren't already pre-made or the only have a breaking strength of 3000 lbs. Any leads on where to find this material?


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## Dulcitea (Jan 15, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> On a boat the size of the original poster, I've really come to favor the use fixed tethers at the base of the mast, just long enough to clip onto before leaving the cockpit&#8230; I have 4 fixed tethers on my boat, 2 at the mast coming aft P & S, one on the foredeck, and one in the cockpit&#8230;
> 
> I have wire jacklines covered with webbing, as well&#8230; but since I've added the fixed tethers, I find myself rarely using them, the fixed tethers are so much more user friendly for me&#8230; Most importantly, once you get to the mast, you can easily shorten them by cleating them off at chest height, leaving both hands free. If I go forward, I can easily be double-tethered, and the one in the cockpit allows me to just reach the windvane, nothing more&#8230;
> 
> Of course, such a system becomes a bit more problematic on a larger boat, but on most boats under 40' or so, it should be pretty workable&#8230; The big advantage is that your point of attachment is always on the centerline of the boat as opposed to the side decks, and I find myself much more likely to use it in those marginal conditions when I wonder, "do I really need to clip on this time?" (grin)


Great idea for the small cruiser! I have jacklines on either side of my boat but I don't think they are safe. I need one hand to keep the teather moving along the jackline. I am always getting snagged on something. Can you tell me how you attach the teathers to the mast and foredeck? I was thinking of adding padeyes like I have in the cockpit.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

For ultimate safety for cockpit jacklines .... best is to locate the lines so that you 'clip-in' while still inside the companionway.

Other - Whichever method, either two or one in the center, consider to NOT pull the lines taught but leave some slack. Leaving the jacklines a bit slack will automatically (by trigonometry and by applying loads perpendicularly to a 'tight' rope/wire) puts less load on the 'terminal ends' and the system will have a much higher 'factor of safety'.

For you with math ability ... when you apply load perpendicularly to a 'taught' line, the reaction load in the terminal ends is the perpendicularly applied load divided by the sine of the deflection angle. Dividing by small deflection angles (taught line) result in forces approaching 'infinity'; the more slack the 'line' the larger the deflection angle (dividing by larger sin value); hence, lesser reaction loads in the 'terminals'.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

RichH said:


> For ultimate safety for cockpit jacklines .... best is to locate the lines so that you 'clip-in' while still inside the companionway.
> 
> Other - Whichever method, either two or one in the center, consider to NOT pull the lines taught but leave some slack. Leaving the jacklines a bit slack will automatically (by trigonometry and by applying loads perpendicularly to a 'tight' rope/wire) puts less load on the 'terminal ends' and the system will have a much higher 'factor of safety'.
> 
> For you with math ability ... when you apply load perpendicularly to a 'taught' line, the reaction load in the terminal ends is the perpendicularly applied load divided by the sine of the deflection angle. Dividing by small deflection angles (taught line) result in forces approaching 'infinity'; the more slack the 'line' the larger the deflection angle (dividing by larger sin value); hence, lesser reaction loads in the 'terminals'.


I posted this some time ago, expanding on with what you are saying, I think.

Sail Delmarva: Sample Calculations for Jackline Stress and Energy Absorption

Actually, one thing that puzzles me a bit is that there is NO shock absorption when a person falls against a hard point (u-bolt rather than jackline), which can take the forces right off the map. Both OSHA and climbing tethers incorporate a simple shock absorption devise that is be both more useful and far more protective than the "overload" indicators we are now seeing on sailing tethers. All they do is inform you that you have visited the danger zone, not make it safer.

Yates SCREAMERS

Once overloaded, the activation is obvious.

A simple matter of sewing. No one who has ever fallen even a short distance against a hard point will climb without them. For sailing, the required shock absorption would be less.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Are we fooling ourselves about jacklines and tethers. The illustrations posted and the general consensus is that jacklines are rigged along the main deck inboard as much as possible. That is usually less than 2ft from edge of boat in most cases. Tethers come in either single or double tether configuration. One tether is typically 6 ft. long, and if there is a second tether, it is typically 3 ft. long. The Sail Delmarva calculation indicated that the jackline will stretch (deflect) about 2.5 ft. when a 200 lb. man falls. Now, if this man is on the high side and falls towards the low side, the 6 ft. tether will stop him from going overboard on low side provided the boat is 10.5 ft. wide at that point. If he was on low side when he fell, or if on the high side, when he falls from high side into water on that side, he will be dangling about 6.5 ft. over the side. The jackline will recover some but not all of the 2.5 delection after the impact. Most mid size sailboats have a freeboard of about 3-4 ft., so the man is overboard in the water and being dragged along at maybe 5 kts. What are his chances of getting back on board, especially if single handing? If he was using the 3 ft. tether, he is a bit better off, but still in big trouble. Most tether arrangements have a quick release at the harness, so he can either be dragged along, or detach, in which case, he is no better off than if he had not clipped in.

Just raising the question. I have jacklines, lifejacket/harnesses, and tethers on my boat, so it's not that I'm opposed to this gear.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

We'll never be completely safe on a boat untill we grow fins and gills. Just like a seatbelt, it's added safety, not fullproof. 

I'd rather be dragging beside the boat single handing than be left behind while my boat sails off into the distance.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

*Center jacklines*



NCC320 said:


> Are we fooling ourselves about jacklines and tethers. The illustrations posted and the general consensus is that jacklines are rigged along the main deck inboard as much as possible. That is usually less than 2ft from edge of boat in most cases. Tethers come in either single or double tether configuration. One tether is typically 6 ft. long, and if there is a second tether, it is typically 3 ft. long. The Sail Delmarva calculation indicated that the jackline will stretch (deflect) about 2.5 ft. when a 200 lb. man falls. Now, if this man is on the high side and falls towards the low side, the 6 ft. tether will stop him from going overboard on low side provided the boat is 10.5 ft. wide at that point. If he was on low side when he fell, or if on the high side, when he falls from high side into water on that side, he will be dangling about 6.5 ft. over the side. The jackline will recover some but not all of the 2.5 delection after the impact. Most mid size sailboats have a freeboard of about 3-4 ft., so the man is overboard in the water and being dragged along at maybe 5 kts. What are his chances of getting back on board, especially if single handing? If he was using the 3 ft. tether, he is a bit better off, but still in big trouble. Most tether arrangements have a quick release at the harness, so he can either be dragged along, or detach, in which case, he is no better off than if he had not clipped in.
> 
> Just raising the question. I have jacklines, lifejacket/harnesses, and tethers on my boat, so it's not that I'm opposed to this gear.


Precisely. That is why I rig jacklines in the center of the boat. I go from the cabin top (actually the traveller) to the mast, from there to the bow cleat. This also means that each segment (traveller to mast, mast to bow cleat) is only half a long as one long line would be along the side decks, which means it deflects a lot less under load.

Only disadvantage is that I have to unclip at the mast if I go all the way f'ward. Small price to pay.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

+1 on being able to clip in while still in the cabin before coming on deck.










Here you can see a Wichard double-action clip on a U-bolt just below the companionway sill, with the tether leading over the sill into the cabin. Once below, the user can unclip their tether from their harness and they are free to move about the cabin.

You can also see the yellow webbing jackline running up the leeward deck.

At the aft end they terminate with a cow-hitch like so:










This is well forward of the transom.

The forward ends are belayed onto my side bow cleats:










We put twists into the webbing when rigging them so that it is relatively easy to get the hook onto them. If they lay totally flat on the deck, you might need two hands -- one to lift the webbing off the deck -- in order to clip on. Especially if they are wet. The twists don't cause any problem when stepping on the webbing -- it flattens under foot and doesn't roll.

Finally, depending on the materials your jacklines are made of, I would argue that they should NOT be permanently rigged. You should take them up whenever the boat is going to be left idle for any period of time, for example, otherwise the material will degrade with exposure to the sun's UV.


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## Dulcitea (Jan 15, 2010)

I agree with NCC320 _for my circumstances_. On my very narrow beamed boat jacklines seem pretty worthless. When I go forward I need one hand just to keep the teather from snagging. I'd rather have two hands available for holding on. In addition, there is no way I would be able to get back on the boat if I were dumped over on the end of a teather. (I have tried.) If I absolutely had to die, I would rather have some time to bargin with God, say goodbye to the world, and finally and hopefully accept my fate with a semblance of dignity and peace---wishful thinking?---then to be drowned by my boat and become trolling bait.

In a blow I stay in the cockpit or down below. Once the genoa has blown out because I was to scared to go forward. (I've since tried to rig the boat to forestall that.) Besides the headsail I can't think of other reasons why one would need to go past the mast in high winds and waves. Maybe the anchor coming lose on the bow roller and banging up the boat? Anything else?


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

As far as running the jacklines up the side deck versus up the middle, I would argue that I want to rig things in such a way as to minimize as much as possible the number of times I need to unclip and reclip in order to move about the boat. A double tether is good in that you can clip the second tether before unclipping the first, but the more you're messing around with your clips, the less you are concentrating on holding on and attending to the task that needed attending to.

Really, I would give a higher priority to making sure you have excellent hand-holds, great non-skid, and good toe-holds, and to developing your own agility and "technique" for moving about in a seaway.


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

I just have to say that when I first posted my question starting this thread, I was concerned that the reaction might be "oh, not another jackline thread...". Which is why I first spent some time searching for old posts on the topic to see what already had been said on the subject. 

I'm very glad to be able to say this has been a very valuable discussion for me - lots of excellent photos, explanations, ideas, pros and cons, etc. 

Very helpful! Thanks so much and keep it coming.


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## Toucanook (Jan 15, 2011)

I do two jacklines, one on either side of the mast, down the center of the boat. Both are flat straps, not line, which can roll under your feet and cause mayhem thereby. They clip to a fat Wichard folding padeye in the cockpit and terminate on the bowsprit. The harness has two lanyards so that I can clip onto the second jackline before disconnecting the first. Both are six feet, so there's no way I can go overboard further than deck level. I think the analogue to seat belts is appropriate.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> Both are six feet, so there's no way I can go overboard further than deck level.


Except maybe at the bow?


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## Toucanook (Jan 15, 2011)

I've checked it out and I can still get back aboard no problem.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

NCC320 said:


> Are we fooling ourselves about jacklines and tethers. The illustrations posted and the general consensus is that jacklines are rigged along the main deck inboard as much as possible. That is usually less than 2ft from edge of boat in most cases. .....<SNIP>.


You make a very valid point.
My _preference_ is to have the jacklines as close as possible to the centerline (one per each side), plus a tether that has multiple connection points - thus able to lengthen or shorten the 'effective' length of the teather.

Since my jacklines (tubular webbing) are nylon and therefore somewhat stretchy (dampens impact) and are not 'taught' between their ends ..... my usual is that the jackline is 'raised to me' (very short tether position) rather than using a typical long tether and taught jackline. (I used to do mountain rescue, so the slack jacklines to me are 'de rigueur', 'old hat'.)

I use the Wichard double-action 'safety' hooks on my tether - two 'motions' to open as I dont want the extra time to unscrew the 'gate' of a locking carabiner. http://www.wichard.com/fiche-A|WICHARD|7005-0203010101000000-ME.html (available through Sailnet store). 
On the mountain you usually have time to unlock a carabiner, not always so on a boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL...mine are rigged outboard of the shrouds, and are over five feet from the edge of the boat, since the boat is 18' wide.  Also, the fact that my boat only heels about 10˚ most of the time helps.



RichH said:


> You make a very valid point.
> My _preference_ is to have the jacklines as close as possible to the centerline (one per each side), plus a tether that has multiple connection points - thus able to lengthen or shorten the 'effective' length of the teather.
> 
> Since my jacklines (tubular webbing) are nylon and therefore somewhat stretchy (dampens impact) and are not 'taught' between their ends ..... my usual is that the jackline is 'raised to me' (very short tether position) rather than using a typical long tether and taught jackline. (I used to do mountain rescue, so the slack jacklines to me are 'de rigueur', 'old hat'.)
> ...


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

dog --- you're 'cheating'. :-o


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

RichH said:


> dog --- you're 'cheating'. :-o


Who me? :laugher :laugher   What are you talking about?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

NCC320 said:


> Are we fooling ourselves about jacklines and tethers.


I couldn't agree more&#8230;

Lots of good info passed on here, of course. But one thing that always strikes me about these sorts of discussions, is our tendency to focus on _gear_, and _equipment_&#8230; That's the trend among today's sailors, a surefire winner today in the sailing industry is any product with the word "Life", or "save" in its name&#8230; Every glossy sailing rag has their annual SAFETY issue flogging the latest personal EPIRBs, or whatever. But, when was the last time you saw an article dedicated to the psychology, or physiology, of moving around a boat safely? It's incredible, how quick we seem to forget that the most important piece of gear keeping us on the boat resides right between our ears&#8230;

Now, I'm far away from the mainstream of cyber-sailors in my thoughts on this subject, I realize&#8230; (grin) People should always do what works best for them, of course. But whenever I hear talk of "always", or "never", I wonder if sometimes it betrays a lack of situational awareness, and making judgments based on each individual situation, and perhaps an over-reliance on gear to keep us safe&#8230;

I do a lot of singlehanded sailing, and most of my time offshore is spent solo&#8230; And yet, in benign situations, I'm often comfortable leaving the cockpit without a harness, even at night&#8230; Many here would think that's foolish, they may even be right&#8230;(grin) Sure, sometimes it's sheer laziness, but that's the reality of how I sail&#8230; Hell, when the time comes if I don't think I can make it to my mast and back without falling overboard on a perfect night in benign conditions, with the moon or my spreader lights ablaze, I probably have no business being out there to begin with&#8230;

However, as soon as the thought occurs to me "OK, moron, perhaps NOW would be a good time to clip on a tether&#8230;" of course I will do so&#8230; And, whenever I leave the cockpit, I always try to imagine to the best of my ability to do so, that the perimeter of my deck represents the edge of a thousand foot cliff, and my lifelines are charged with 600 volts of electricity&#8230; I cannot stand to see any crew I'm sailing with to so much as TOUCH a lifeline, that's an indication they're not moving around on deck properly or comfortably&#8230;

I often see cruisers moving around their boats in marinas or anchorages in such an ungainly fashion, I shudder to imagine some of them leaving their cockpit on a dirty night offshore&#8230; It's a sad reality, no amount of tethers or jacklines are gonna compensate for the way some people move on a boat&#8230;

Not to mention, of course, how difficult it is to move about on so many of today's designs, to begin with&#8230; Then, once cruisers start lining the rails with jerry jugs of diesel or all manner of crap some are compelled to drag along these days, safe movement on deck becomes even more of a challenge&#8230; Best not get me started on THAT particular rant&#8230; (grin)

Anyway, my point is that staying aboard your boat is something that has to do with decisions, routines, mindsets, a degree of agility and fitness, and a sort of innate 6th sense made and perfected long before one clips a safety tether onto a jackline&#8230; For anyone planning to sail offshore, it should inform the choice of your boat to begin with. And yet, given some of the boats people are heading out in these days, and the manner in which their decks are cluttered with all manner of hazards, safe movement outside of the cockpit seems little more than an afterthought for many&#8230;


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Well put.

I snicker when I see jacklines but no toe rail or handholds.

Inattention is always the scary thing. Just seeing the jacklines makes me think, even when I'm not clipped in, and that is worthwhile too, for me.

I've done plenty of mountain rock and ice climbing without ropes. I concentrate. The reason I am critical of weak jacklines or poorly thought out systems is that they can give a false sense of safety, which is intolerable.


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## hal58 (Feb 9, 2011)

I'd definitely install two lines and I'd practice hooking on and off in the dark!


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Dulcitea said:


> Great idea for the small cruiser! I have jacklines on either side of my boat but I don't think they are safe. I need one hand to keep the teather moving along the jackline. I am always getting snagged on something. Can you tell me how you attach the teathers to the mast and foredeck? I was thinking of adding padeyes like I have in the cockpit.


I have a few strong points at the base of the mast that I run the fixed tethers from&#8230; But, you could simply tie yours off around the base of the mast, lacking a dedicated mounting point. On the foredeck, I tie mine into the deck fitting for my staysail, and run the hook back to the base of the mast&#8230; You might consider using climbing rope, it has a bit more "give" than most marine ropes, and it holds knots and resists abrasion well&#8230;

Again, I highly recommend this setup for boats of moderate size&#8230; In regards to my post above, and my habit of often going forward without a harness, I will say that I find myself doing so less often since I've adapted this setup&#8230; Especially when singlehanding, and when being in the successive 20-minute catnap routine&#8230; I find it WAY more practical and comfortable to sleep in a harness alone, than one with a tether attached, or to have to keep removing it and putting it back on&#8230; Again, this is what works for me, it's an inexpensive solution, and a bit easier to de-rig and stow once in port than most jackline arrangements, but your mileage may vary, of course&#8230;

One other suggestion for those using jacklines - I found slipping a couple of stainless rings onto each of mine made them much more user-friendly - easier to clip onto than a jackline laying on deck, and they run back and forth more effortlessly and with fewer hang-ups than with a tether attached directly to the jackline&#8230;


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

JonEisberg said:


> Lots of good info passed on here, of course. But one thing that always strikes me about these sorts of discussions, is our tendency to focus on _gear_, and _equipment_&#8230; .... But, when was the last time you saw an article dedicated to the psychology, or physiology, of moving around a boat safely? It's incredible, how quick we seem to forget that the most important piece of gear keeping us on the boat resides right between our ears&#8230;


As usual, Jon and I are on the same page.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*tether can get you back aboard*



Dulcitea said:


> ...In addition, there is no way I would be able to get back on the boat if I were dumped over on the end of a teather. (I have tried.) ... ?


A friend's adult son went overboard (lee side) at the end of a tether on a passage from NYC to Bermuda (Moody 345). He was only over briefly before a wave threw him back on board with only a variety of scrapes and scratches. You do not have to climb back in many circumstances.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

catamount said:


> Finally, depending on the materials your jacklines are made of, I would argue that they should NOT be permanently rigged. You should take them up whenever the boat is going to be left idle for any period of time, for example, otherwise the material will degrade with exposure to the sun's UV.


An alternative to rigging and then taking up your jacklines before and after each trip is simply to buy new ones every year. (This tip from Andrew Evans' new web book on Singlehanded Sailing, available here: http://www.sfbaysss.org/tipsbook)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

catamount said:


> Finally, depending on the materials your jacklines are made of, I would argue that they should NOT be permanently rigged. You should take them up whenever the boat is going to be left idle for any period of time, for example, otherwise the material will degrade with exposure to the sun's UV.


Dyneema/Spectra are far more UV-resistant than plain nylon or dacron webbing, so if you need/want to leave jacklines rigged, go with a spectra/dyneema jackline with tubular webbing over it to prevent it from rolling and protect it from chafe.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

killarney_sailor said:


> A friend's adult son went overboard (lee side) at the end of a tether on a passage from NYC to Bermuda (Moody 345). He was only over briefly before a wave threw him back on board with only a variety of scrapes and scratches. You do not have to climb back in many circumstances.


Good plan....

I submit again, that most of us are kidding ourselves on this issue. I'm not suggesting that jacklines and harnesses shouldn't be used. If you fall or are tossed across broad areas of the deck, the jacklines will keep you on board, but if you fall off on the same side as you are hooked on or from the bow where the boat is narrow, particularily if you go under the lifeline, you are going over the side and will be dragged along. Being dragged in rough weather at 5 knots means you are likely to die. If you go over top of the lifeline, you are in a better position as long as the lifeline or stanchions don't fail since you will be held closer to the deck. If you have a crew and they see you go over, they probably can get you back on board, possibly before you die. Singlehanding....you are not likely to make it. Each boat rigs jacklines and harness tethers a little different, but most seem to favor jacklines down either side deck, coupled with 6 ft. primary tethers. Typical boats on this list have 3-4 ft. freeboard and there will be some stretch in the jackline. Remember that the harness attachment is on the upper part of your body, so the lower part is dangling below this point. If you really want to know how secure your system is, go out on a calm, no wind day (with someone to assist you in getting back on board) and experiment in seeing how many different directions that you could go overboard. Then do it, and see if you can get yourself back on board. From several locations.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong. The test suggested above with your particular system will tell the truth, and might lead you to change or modify your arrangement.

In this discussion, I've seen only one mention of life line netting (I don't have it, but I don't go off shore in rough weather). A good rugged netting would appear to be a big assist to keeping a person on board. So would a bulwark or significicant tow rail, but your boat either has these or it doesn't. Any thoughts on why netting is not generally seen or mentioned? Also, on the tether, a 3 ft. tether around the jackline and clipped back into the harness would give only 1 1/2 ft. effective tether, which given the attachment point to the harness would keep one on board, but should allow a crouch approach in moving up or down the deck, while holding onto lifeline on one side and handrails or other hard grab points as you move along the deck on the other. In such a case, you are less likely to loose your balance and if you do, the tether is now short enough to keep you on board, in theory. Any thoughts or comments on this?


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

NCC 320 said:


> Any thoughts on why netting is not generally seen or mentioned?


I think due mostly to aesthetics. People don't like the way it looks.

I rarely see it - and usually only on boats that look like they've just come in from across the ocean. For hacks like me, banging around the Bay, it just seems unnecessary. And 99.8% of the time, it probably is. Like a spare tire, a fire extinguisher, good medical insurance, or a reliable firearm, it's that fraction of a percent of the time that you actually really need it that's the kicker.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

A lacing (or very coarse netting, if you will) from lifeline to toerail is often found on the first one or two segments back from the bow on race boats, in order to help contain headsails during sail changes. I suppose they might also help keep the bowman on board, too.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that the lifelines on most sailboats are too low and are pretty much just a reminder that you're getting close to the edge of the boat, rather than something that will keep you aboard. On many boats, the lifelines are positioned almost perfectly to trip you into the water rather than catch you if you're a taller sailor.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I think that most racers just interlace the lifelines up to the first (and sometimes second stanchion) rather than stringing netting. It is pretty invisable from even pretty moderate distances. (see Kwaltersmi’s photo in message #11 and mine in #15). About the furthest I’ve ever been from a boat was doing bow work during a Duxbury Reef race. I was on my knees, tee’ng up a reacher for a peel at the weather mark when the boat took a lurch and I went sliding. My legs, up to about my waist went over. The lower life line and toe rail “caught” my bunched up jacket and PFD while I held on to the fore guy like grim death. The afterguard was not amused as me flopping around the forepeak like a fish was upsetting the weight trim on the boat. Such is the life of a (sometime) bow man.

My wife wants a new dodger this spring which is accelerating some re-rigging work I was planning to do. I’ll take pictures and start a new thread on Tuesday. But, to get you guys started, I’m planing on re-routing my boom vang and traveller lines and will need to calculate the potential loads on the lines, turning blocks and cleats. My mainsail is 240 square feet and I do sail in wind speeds in the mid forties on occasion.<O


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## Mommsen (May 19, 2015)

RANDOM POST, SORRY...
(just joined and need 10 posts to see the pictures in the thread concerning rigging jacklines...)


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