# very close to going through with it... some last minute questions



## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

So, I heard from my bank today that I got a loan that will enable me to go through with my liveaboard plans on a Pearson 36 I've been looking at. I'll be living in Boston. I have a few questions that need answers before I can actually pull the trigger though...

1) How much does covering the boat in winter cost? I guess most people use shrinkwrap, but some make more elaborate canvas covers? Since I'll be living aboard, does that affect the cost, perhaps due to the addition of a door or somesuch? I'm assuming I'll keep the mast up all winter. Also, will this damage the boat? When I first saw it, it was under shrinkwrap and the shrinking seems to have bent a lifeline stanchion inwards. The current owner fixed that himself, he's apparently quite good at fiberglass work.

2) How much do anti-ice devices cost (to buy and to operate), and do you think I'll need them? I guess these are bubblers and others, I know nearly nothing about this.

3) Do you think I'll need a dinghy? I have a normal workweek job on land, so I think my sailing will be mainly daysails and weekend sails around the boston/cape cod area -- will I need it there? How much would a used dinghy and motor cost me?

4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?

5) Tax benefits -- I've been repeatedly told that I can treat the boat as my primary residence and deduct the interest on the loan from my income. Can anyone point me to an official document that says as much, and ideally would let me figure out just how much of an effect this would have on my taxes?

6) If I decide I hate living aboard, do you think I'll be able to get out without losing too much money? At least 10% would seem to be sunk at the start in brokers fees to sell the boat...

7) Is being able to sail a couple times a week for 6 months out of the year worth living in such a small space and paying (only slightly) more than I'm currently paying to rent an apartment? In short, am I insane?

I apologize for posting so many questions in one post, but I have a feeling it would be even more frowned upon for me to start that many threads at once. Any info or insights you can supply would be greatly appreciated! No doubt I'll be up all night tonight thinking of more questions I should ask, so there will probably be more.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

I can only help with 7)...just coming home to the boat is very relaxing to me...well worth it. The view changes, the motion is easy on the sleeping and no you are not insane. Even on those icy nights with a Corp laptop on each shoulder, worried that I would hit bottom before I gave up the Co gear...was not enough to enjoy the boat...and if the job goes away (like mine) you don't have a lease to tie you down...take the boat out for a few days/weeks, new job near or far you have the boat.

Best of luck....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

rmeador said:


> So, I heard from my bank today that I got a loan that will enable me to go through with my liveaboard plans on a Pearson 36 I've been looking at. I'll be living in Boston. I have a few questions that need answers before I can actually pull the trigger though...
> 
> 1) How much does covering the boat in winter cost? I guess most people use shrinkwrap, but some make more elaborate canvas covers? Since I'll be living aboard, does that affect the cost, perhaps due to the addition of a door or somesuch? I'm assuming I'll keep the mast up all winter. Also, will this damage the boat? When I first saw it, it was under shrinkwrap and the shrinking seems to have bent a lifeline stanchion inwards. The current owner fixed that himself, he's apparently quite good at fiberglass work.


The problem with the bent stanchions is pretty common when the boat is shrinkwrapped badly. A canvas cover makes more sense, since it is a long-term investment, rather than disposable.



> 2) How much do anti-ice devices cost (to buy and to operate), and do you think I'll need them? I guess these are bubblers and others, I know nearly nothing about this.


The anti-icing devices are usually provided by the marina if you're a winter liveaboard. You'd only have to provide them if you were wintering in a privately owned slip.



> 3) Do you think I'll need a dinghy? I have a normal workweek job on land, so I think my sailing will be mainly daysails and weekend sails around the boston/cape cod area -- will I need it there? How much would a used dinghy and motor cost me?


To get to some of the better places to visit, you'd want a dinghy. The price really depends on what you're looking for in a dinghy and outboard. Craigslist is a pretty good source for them.



> 4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?


It depends a lot on what the condition of the boat is, whether you do the work yourself or hire the yard to do it, and such. The big costs that might crop up are things like the standing rigging, engine and transmission, and the sails.



> 5) Tax benefits -- I've been repeatedly told that I can treat the boat as my primary residence and deduct the interest on the loan from my income. Can anyone point me to an official document that says as much, and ideally would let me figure out just how much of an effect this would have on my taxes?


Yes, but only if the loan uses the boat as the collateral for the loan. Typically, this type of loan is called a marine mortgage for obvious reasons. Also, the boat has to have a permanently installed head and galley-no camping stoves, no porta-potties. If the interest payments on the boat are $4000 and you're in the 28% tax bracket, you'd effectively save about .28 * $4000 or about $1120 per year. You'd want to talk to an accountant that is versed in tax law regarding this.



> 6) If I decide I hate living aboard, do you think I'll be able to get out without losing too much money? At least 10% would seem to be sunk at the start in brokers fees to sell the boat...


Again, this depends on the market, how much you pay for the boat, what shape the boat is in, time of year, etc. For instance, if you buy a boat that is overpriced for what you're buying, chances are very likely you'll take a serious hit selling it.



> 7) Is being able to sail a couple times a week for 6 months out of the year worth living in such a small space and paying (only slightly) more than I'm currently paying to rent an apartment? In short, am I insane?


Given what the real estate and apartment rental prices are in the Boston area, it is probably far less expensive to liveaboard than it would be to live in an apartment and have a boat in a slip. The increase in slip fees, for living aboard, is far less than the rent for an apartment or house in the Boston area.



> I apologize for posting so many questions in one post, but I have a feeling it would be even more frowned upon for me to start that many threads at once. Any info or insights you can supply would be greatly appreciated! No doubt I'll be up all night tonight thinking of more questions I should ask, so there will probably be more.


The best place to liveaboard is probably the Constitution Marina in Charlestown, Mass. It has a fairly decent liveaboard community that has had notable sailors like Webb Chiles as members. It isn't very far from downtown Boston via water shuttle. It isn't far from public transportation either.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks for the info thus far. SD, you pretty much answered everything. I realize that some of the answers will be rather nebulous. Maybe someone with a Pearson 36 will come along and tell me of their maintenance costs and such. Also, I'm already thinking Constitution Marina is probably the place to be, but it's a little pricey in the summer... the nearby Shipyard Quarters is cheaper, but it might be worth the extra money to stay at Constitution. And you're certainly right that it would cost less than having an apartment plus a boat!


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Regarding maintenance costs. Like SD said, it depends on the condition of the boat--and on how much you can do yourself. But don't completely dismiss the estimates you've heard. A Pearson 36 is what, 20 to 25 years old? Lots of parts are nearing the end of their service life at that point. Oil changes are pretty much the least of it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

IIRC, Shipyard is much farther from stores and decent public transportation. I'm going to guess that you probably won't have a car when you're in Boston, since parking one there is rather expensive. If that is the case, you'll want to be as close to public transportation as possible. 

Also, the liveaboard community there will make life aboard a lot nicer.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You asked a lot of good questions and got good answers. Since you opened the door for what really amounts to a matter of opinion on whether living aboard make one insane, I will offer my experience.

I live aboard, each and every weekend from Fri night to Mon morning. Its been a great experience and test of what our retirement plan might be to live aboard for six months out of each year. We hope to snow bird and use the boat to sail to and live aboard at one end, while maintaining a house at the other. Haven't which is in the north or south yet.

Here is my take on living aboard. Sailboats are completely incompatible with deadlines. In fact, the entire marine culture and infrastructure is incompatible with deadlines. Everything is harder and more likely to be interrupted by something mechanical or weather related to keep a firm schedule. When we don't have somewhere we have to be, we absolutely love it and deal with whatever comes. Monday mornings are notably different. Getting showered, fed and ready to go back to the office, putting on a suit and tie, having to leave even though you notice something you wish you could deal with now (eg. unexpected water in bildge, chafing on docklines), are all multiple times more difficult and frustrating than comparable issues at home. 

I couldn't imagine going to work every day from the boat, but I can easily imagine being retired aboard. We love everything else about it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Minnewaska-

I'd point out if you were actually living aboard full time, there would be far more chances for you to notice and remedy things like docklines chafing than you have weekending aboard as you do. *Living aboard full-time and weekending aboard regularly can NOT be compared to each other. * They're totally different things.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Minnewaska-
> 
> I'd point out if you were actually living aboard full time, there would be far more chances for you to notice and remedy things like docklines chafing than you have weekending aboard as you do. *Living aboard full-time and weekending aboard regularly can NOT be compared to each other. * They're totally different things.


Totally agree! I think of weekending; marina living aboard; and cruising as stages on a continuum. Weekending on the boat (then, presumably, going back to a house or apartment) - you don't have to address questions like where do you do your laundry? Which possessions are you going to keep? At the same time, living aboard at a marina and going to work is totally different than cruising. Living aboard at a marina is more like living in a very small condo. You are still in one place and have all the shoreside conveniences - a place to get your mail and park your car, nearly unlimited water and power compared to what you'd have while cruising and being totally reliant on boat systems.

That said, it's a fabulous life! Been living aboard fulltime for 8 years and would not voluntarily go back to land.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

rmeador said:


> 4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?


Believe it! We've found that number to be pretty good - actually, we use 5-10% of the value of an equivalent *new *boat, and we're both quite handy and have done most of the work on our boat ourselves. Your list of questions implies you're relatively new at this, so any maintenance you need will be either done by a professional or you'll need to factor in trial-and-error processes. Every "random thing"on a boat that may break will be more expensive to fix than the same thing on land if for no other reason than the materials need to be resistant to corrosion - seawater is tough on metals, stainless costs more than the lightweight generic stuff from Home Depot. Also remember that in a house if you get a leak and don't fix it right away, the worst that can happen is that your furniture gets wet. If you live on a boat and get a leak and don't fix it right away, your home may sink - big difference!

Re your #7 - no you're not crazy, just inspired. Living aboard is great.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm very handy, so I think I'll be able to all but the most serious maintenance myself. I am an electrical engineer, so I should be able to handle all the electrical stuff (I'm even considering building some of my own electronics). I know a fair amount about mechanical systems, so I think I'll be able to all non-serious engine maintenance. I should be able to handle plumbing and carpentry. The only thing that really worries me is fiberglass work, since I have very little experience with that.

I know parts for boats are expensive, but I don't see why I'm going to be buying them very often. I know sometimes I'll have a major failure and have to shell out some boatbucks, but shouldn't that be a fairly rare occurrence? I'm assuming I won't be needing new sails once a month, or a complete engine rebuild once a year...

10% of a new boat like this would probably be $15k. That's about my entire yearly budget for loan, slip fees, etc and maintenance combined. You seriously think I'll be spending as much or more on maintenance as I will on just owning it? Maybe I can't afford this. I keep hearing there are some people who live on a boat to save money, how can that be possible if I potentially can't do it on my very nice salary?


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

rmeador said:


> 10% of a new boat like this would probably be $15k. That's about my entire yearly budget for loan, slip fees, etc and maintenance combined. You seriously think I'll be spending as much or more on maintenance as I will on just owning it? Maybe I can't afford this. I keep hearing there are some people who live on a boat to save money, how can that be possible if I potentially can't do it on my very nice salary?


I think it just depends on you.

If you're one of those people who have to fix every little scratch on deck then it can really cost you, especially if you're paying someone else to do the work. But if you're like many and think that scratch just adds a little character then you might pay for the important stuff (rigging, sails, etc ..) and let the little stuff wait until the next refit. So really you are the only person who can answer that question - if one of your electronic devices breaks, are you going to replace it ? DIY or pay someone to do it ? Immediately or wait until there's a sale ? You get the idea.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Addition to my last post ..

It's really another "need" vs. "want" discussion.

Being a sailboat you "need" a hull/deck, rigging/sails, and a rudder.

Most people also consider an engine a "need", but for some that is a "want".

Most people also consider some amount of safety gear and ground tackle a "need".

Everything else is optional.

So at a minimum you are going to have to keep the hull in reasonable shape to be safe, do some painting, either pay for sail repairs or be able to repair them yourself, make sure your rigging stays in good repair, and keep the rudder in good shape. Then you've got safety gear to deal with and an engine if you want one, beyond that it's all about what you think is important for your boat.

I think that most of the skills needed to take care of the real "needs" can be learned - fiberglass, wood, and basic metal work (depending on hull material), rigging, sail repair (sewing), etc, but even if you DIY you still have material costs, and there are some things such as rigging where you may simply have to pay someone to do some things.

What does all that mean in terms of cost ? I don't think anyone can say. Anywhere from "used a friend's cherry picker to raise the mast for free" to "paid mega-yacht's inc. to buff a mirror finish into the paint".


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" I've been repeatedly told that I can treat the boat as my primary residence and deduct the interest on the loan from my income. Can anyone point me to an official document that says as much,"
there's only one source for official tax information:
Internal Revenue Service
although they've also got a toll-free number and sometimes that's faster.

The IRS has ALL of their publications online and as far as they are concerned, the primary mortgage interest on any residence (house, boat, yurt, whathaveyou) is tax deductible, it doesn't matter if it floats or sits on a concrete foundation. Look that up directly with them. IIRC there is one major caveat, that your lender MUST issue the correct document signifying that it is a mortgage, secured by the title to the "residence". The IRS will tell you exactly what they want.
However, the loaner may not be willing to issue a loan to a liveaboard. That varies from firm to firm.
As for the net effect on your income taxes...Either go online to a free tax filing web site, or get tax software (state and federal) even if it is last year's version, and just run the numbers. All the software will prompt you for mortgage interest, run it with and without and you'll see the difference. 
Since most loans consist of "mainly interest, very little principal" at the start, and the balance shifts to "very little interest, mainly principal" as they age, that figure is also going to change over time.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

The only other iirc code worth mentioning (i am no tax professional) that the vessel must have all the accomodations of a home.... ie galley head etc, but you are probably well equipped in this regard, just something worth noting


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

As for maintenance costs; a lot has been said in different posts already, but in an attempt at summary, I'll add my own 2 cents. For me, $15,000 a year on 'maintenance' is an extremely large number. There is nothing on that boat, in my opinion, that you can't learn how to do yourself. Having said that, if you notice a problem today, but decided to put off fixing it until next winter, then the cost to repair may have doubled or more by then. I'm sure you see where I'm going. Most people, when figuring the 10% rule, I think are including the 'wish list' as well and factoring in paying professional fees. The cost to replace your lifelines could vary anywhere from several hundred dollars, paid to a marina professional, to $50.00 buying the parts on sale and going it yourself. You're talking about a difference of several hundred percent in every little job. Owning a home on land is almost the same with a portion of the homeowner population budgeting 10% for maintenance when I haven't spent $500.00 in the past 18 months. Everything is relevant.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

if you are buying the boat from a marina (i did), i made pretty good pals with the sales guy, who brokers a lot of boats and does a lot of work on them. I cant speak for all, but this guy has been an invaluable resource of help/info/part begging etc... might be good to buddy up, as i have yet to have had to pay any marina mechs and they are very expensive. Some of the work i have been a bit flummoxed by ive gotten great advice here, and if you think through your circle of friends you probably know someone adept at about every aspect of repair who can be bribed to help with a little beer and some time on the water. good luck, if you want her i hope you get her.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

You might put up what you think your boat-owning budget will be to get more useful comments. Also what amenities would work for you - will you expect shore power, refrig, shower, heat...these all make a boat more expensive.

I don't think you would find living aboard significantly less than the cost of a studio rental. Annual slip fees in downtown Boston will get you half way there to start. Boat stuff is more expensive than you can yet imagine, even if you throw in lots of your time at no cost. Get specific and be realistic.

That said, living on a boat could be a cool lifestyle, I may try it myself..


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

sailingfools cost breakdown makes a lot of sense, but i would point out most boats oh..28' or less may require a fair bit of crouching around. my 30' has 6 4 headroom and has adequate space for one living comfortably.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

rmeador said:


> 4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?
> 
> 6) If I decide I hate living aboard, do you think I'll be able to get out without losing too much money? At least 10% would seem to be sunk at the start in brokers fees to sell the boat...
> 
> 7) Is being able to sail a couple times a week for 6 months out of the year worth living in such a small space and paying (only slightly) more than I'm currently paying to rent an apartment? In short, am I insane?


4)... yes. 10% is the low end of accurate for the first couple of years. Some random things that break aren't too expensive to fix, others are surprisingly so. Craigslist and Ebay can really help offset costs, and many chandleries will have a new boat owner's discount. It's a good idea to walk around one before hand to get a grip on prices of things like appropriately sized dock lines, fenders, propane hoses, bilge pumps, running rigging, winch handles, and the like. Here's one: Bottom paint is about $200 a gallon, and you're looking at about 2 +/- to do yours... that's not rollers, tarp, haul out costs, bottom prep, etc..., that's just the paint. Then there's cabin heat to look at. You can change the oil, but can you replace a throttle cable? Trouble shoot the electrical system? The good thing is most people can do it... it's the time on task that's a problem for most.

Those sails you mention, for a boat the size of a P36, you'll be looking at at least $3000 for a Main and $2500-$2800 for an overlapping jib. These are pretty lowball. You can easily spend much more.

6) Depends on the boat. If you buy one that isn't in particularly good shape and commonly available, chances are you'll loose in the deal. No garantees about liking the whole live aboard thing. All boats are small compared to even a smallish apartment.

7) It might be the better part of valor to just sail for a year or so, do some longer passages, a little racing, daysailing, etc... and see if it really feels like you're ready to go. Having thought about it for a bit longer and having sailed a number of boats, you'll have a better idea of what you can and can't live with or on. In the end, the best deal would be to live aboard and have relatives/family in the area that would let you borrow or rent a room if you really needed to be off the boat for awhile to deal with an unanticipated medical condition. Having access to a shop would also be a huge bonus!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"The only other iirc code worth mentioning (i am no tax professional) that the vessel must have all the accomodations of a home.... "
Mick, the IRS code doesn't mention the word "home". The question is whether it is a "residence" and in order to meet that criteria, the only accomodations required are a bunk, galley, and head. As specified in the IRS code. (And of course, you've got to be living there.)
If you have a huge McMansion built, and there's no kitchen or bathroom in it? Right, you don't get the deduction for that either, even if there are six bedrooms!


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

and _that_ is why im no tax professional.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It's a Pearson 36 IIRC from the OP



sailingfool said:


> You might put up what you think your boat-owning budget will be to get more useful comments. Also what size and type of vessel would work for you - the costs for a 40 coastal cruiser will run five times those of a P26 with OB. Will you expect shore power, refrig, shower, heat...these all make a boat more expensive.
> 
> I don't think you would find living aboard significantly less than the cost of a studio rental. Annual slip fees in downtown Boston will get you half way there to start. Boat stuff is more expensive than you can yet imagine, even if you throw in lots of your time at no cost. Get specific and be realistic.
> 
> That said, living on a boat could be a cool lifestyle, I may try it myself..


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## seaduced8104 (May 1, 2009)

I have a friend who lives aboard a boat and have spoken with him many times as i have almost done it a couple of times. The issue as has been stated many times is the expense to hire a professional, so you will learn to do most repairs yourself. Many systens on a boat were not meant to be used every day all year and will require frequent serivcing to run smoothly. The head will need rebuild (50-75 dollars) each year. Or you could replace for 150-200 each year. Every other year you will want to change head hose as odors will drive you nuts(25.00 per foot). You will need to maintain storage unit for tools-extra supplies and winter or summer clothes will be in there also. Living aboard a boat you will undoubatably leave items in the open instead of stowing everything making it harder for you to go day sailing or weekending. My friend finds that it is to much work to stowe everything for an evening cruise and the boat actually leaves the dock less than when he maintained two places. Water hoses freeze in the winter and often you need to hand carry jugs of water and dump into tanks because even if left running the hoses freeze. The dock will be slipery when there is frost or mist and the question is not if but when you will fall in. How will you get yourself back up onto the dock in 20 degree weather and no one around and no ladder to climb at the dock. At the end of the day, I say it sound like fun thourh go for it. 

Michael


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

a lot of marinas have showers/bathrooms etc which can mitigate some of the 'overusage' due to living aboard. ive used my head once in the past year...


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Even a boat that surveys fine will have issues. As posted earlier if the boat has been used weekends and 2 weeks a year for a holiday when everything is used daily issues will crop up. Head and pumps just aren't generally built for daily use. The water supply hoses will most likely need replacing. As posted annual haulouts are expensive, paint plus in/out charge, time on shore charge and powerwash. Many yards will not let you do your own work ashore, some will. The weekend sailor does not usually realize what maintenance is until he's living aboard full time. The drip from the port when it rains is a lot less of an issue for one who sails weekends (sunny ones) than the liveaboard who sits beside it nightly, rain or shine. I don't know of a boat that is insulated for winter living from the factory. After all, the weekend sailor doesn't need it. Even with a full cover in a Boston winter the colder outside (especially with a breeze) the more condensation inside. Heat is one item most weekend users need little of. This can renge from $1000 for a bulkhead furnace to several thousand more for an Espar built-in or similar. To insulate properly you need access to the hull,deck, and overhead as well. I'd bet the 10% for maintenance will be exceeded in the first year or so.
But I've lived aboard sailboats for about 14 years and wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Minnewaska-
> 
> I'd point out if you were actually living aboard full time, there would be far more chances for you to notice and remedy things like docklines chafing than you have weekending aboard as you do. *Living aboard full-time and weekending aboard regularly can NOT be compared to each other. * They're totally different things.


Since I haven't done it full time, I will have to take your word for it. Assume you have. Although, how much more "awake and daylight" time does someone going to work Mon-Fri have aboard than I do from Fri afternoon to Mon morning? Nevertheless, I may have used a poor example. The point I was trying to make is that there are far more serious issues on boats than at home. Having to walk away, if one is identified, and go to work sounds very hard to me. Living aboard without a job is very different and enjoyable.

Also, showering and throwing on a pair of shorts and t-shirt is about the same at home and on the boat. Showering and putting on a suit and tie is extraordinarily harder on the boat. Maybe just me. Maybe a job you go to in shorts and t-shirt would be okay.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

Seaduced and miti

your suggestions about heads and hoses is way off the mark...good hose will last years, and you don't need to rebuild or replace the head every other year...repairs yes...And unless you are buying one of the cheapest heads out there, it will be a fair amount more than $200.

Many boat systems actually work "better" when used more often and on a regular basis. Sitting is the worst enemy of those systems. Proper winterization and maintenance will keep things working.

If you are a slob or a poor housekeeper at home, you will likely be on the boat. Most liveaboards are neither...

You may want to try it one day, so you actually know what the challenges are.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

Well, you've given me a lot of food for thought and assuaged some of my fears. I think I'm going to put an offer on the boat.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

kd3pc
Yes, head hoses will last years, but most older boats could use new fresh water lines if you are going to be drinking tank water regularly. The basic Jabsco on most boats from the factory, even expensive boats, is not exactly durable long term. The best solution is never to put paper in them. Last week I helped unclog a Vacuflush that had was jammed with paper. I've rebuilt one liveaboard's electric head twice in the last year, between buildup in the hoses and hair around the macerator blades they also have their issues. Personally I have a manual Lavac and it is as maintenance free as any head I've ever seen or owned. 
Yes regular use is good for many systems, but all aren't built for long term use unless upgraded from standard quality. I make a pretty good living fixing other people's systems and see all kinds of issues. Yes proper maintenance goes a long way but many don't think of it until something plugs or stops working. If the boat is purchased new and proper maintenance is carried out there would be few issues but if you buy an older boat that isn't always the case.
Try what? I've lived aboard full time for years.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A good way to get rid of a bad/cheap head on a boat is to replace most of it with a Raritan PHC or PHII LBA unit...which is everything but the bowl. You attach your existing bowl to the LBA and essentially get a brand new head for about $125 less than a new Raritan would cost you. It's a very good deal.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

If I was going to replace the head (or do significant maintenance on it), I'd probably replace the whole thing with a pressure fresh water head. It seems like it would be both easier to use and have less smell. Living aboard in a marina, the water usage isn't terribly important.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If you ever plan on doing extended cruises, I'd recommend, highly recommend, not getting a head that flushes with fresh water only. Fresh water is a commodity that is very difficult to get a hold of in many cruising areas.


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