# Mottle 33 Advice or thoughts on this aussie boat?



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Hi all, 

I am looking for some thoughts and advice on an Australian yacht the Mottle 33, sometimes also known as a naut 33. They were a centre cockpit mid 70's -early 80's Peter Cole designed boat.

Essentially my situation is that I am looking to do a mixture of coastal and blue water cruising. I am based in Sydney, so the plan would be up the east coast of Australia, then either the Pacific or up into Asia by way of Indonesia.

When I say 'Bluewater' I have no plans to circumnavigate by way of the Capes any time soon, or visit our arctic extremities. There would be a lot of island hopping, but also some not insignificant offshore passages.

There are likely to be 2-3 of us on the yacht, and we like the accomodation plan of the Mottle, they fit within our budget but I must admit we have no first hand experience with one.

thoughts?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sounds like a good little boat if you believe what was written about it *here*.

Not a bad looking boat either. No personal experience with the beast though.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thats what I thought as well. There were a few in charter fleets out here in in the 80's apparently which made me initially nervous about their bluewater abilities. Thanks Sailing Dog for the info and link.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

My little book indicates they were designed by Joe Adams. Other details include:

LOA 32ft 91/2"
beam 10ft 9"
draft 5ft 2"

Ilenart


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks, I think your right i've now seen info that suggests they were a Joe Adams design, Im not sure where I got Peter Cole from then!


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

I've sailed in club races around Moreton Bay on a mottle 33. fast and safe. The crew won the WAGS a few seasons ago (when I wasnt on the boat of course) The one in the pic I think is in Gladstone. 

We didn't choose a mottle to cruise in but they'd be perfect for the trip to TI / Darwin etc.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Anna, 

Thanks for the info.

We are in Sydney and the proposed cruise would be up the east coast, Queensland Islands, and then from Cairns across to the Louisaddes, then maybe the Solomons, before heading back to Sydney via Vanuatu/New Caledonia etc. 

Option two could be Darwin and then maybe on into Asia?? depends on time and money.

We are wondering now whether the Mottle might be too small for us, but they seem very capable and reasonably priced. 

Alternative we have looked at include:

Nantucket 33 ( more internal size than the mottle, slightly more expensive, arguably uglier and not as quick. Oh and THIS was the Peter Cole design)

Adams 40 Steel and also Centre Cockpit. 

Early/Mid 90's around 35-37ft production boat. (Beneteau or Catalina..)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Chall,
The Mottle 33 is essentially quite capable of doing what you want. At least one of them has done the full circle and for a relatively inexpensive primarily coastal cruising boat they are not a bad choice and are certainly a popular design of their time.
That said 33' feet is pretty small in anyones language for a centre cockpit and stowage space would be at a premium. Fuel and water capacity is not great. Aft cabin somewhat cramped.
Nonetheless their owners seem to love them.
There used to be a quite active owners association btw but I don't know if it still exists.
Personally if I was looking at something that size of that age I'd be having a look at things like Duncanson 34-35, S & S 34, Swanson 32-36, Young 34, Wright 10.6, Cole 35 and even one of ours, the Van De Stadt 34. Not many Catalinas of that age in Oz but you will find some older Beneteaus but they would be a fair bit more money. For sure if I was looking in that price range I'd want aft cockpit.


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

All Van destadt designs are great. I couldn't agree more. We had the 36' seal design. Fast, safe and tough. (Had to be). 

I know the nantucket also - but not as well. Quite tender in comparision and not as fast (smaller boat) but a top cruiser all the same. The Dunc could be a bit small for 3 people. I personally am not overly keen on bolt on 'bendy toys'. Downwind sailing, the design may trip up. Its great to hunt down your next boat and if it takes a year - so be it. You will know what you want. 

You may find the next step up could be a bit daunting, from a 27' to a cruiser - they have systems - plumbing/ elect etc and it takes a while to learn your boat. 

Incidentalyy, we are looking at the same carins/louisiades/vanuato/ home next year.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Awesome Anna! Well if we run into each other the first Sundowner is on me 

TDW I agree big step up in price from a Mottle to a mid 90's Beneteau. I guess that is our problem we are trying to figure out at this stage in our lives with varying factors how much money we should be pouring into a boat and what we will end up doing with said boat.

I guess I am very happy to do it in a Mottle if it means that we do actually _do_ it.

Cam and others have made some fairly good arguments however that you need to be honest about what is an acceptable comfort level for you, and we have spent some time onboard Beneteau's of late, and im ashamed to say that we found them to be fun to sail and well comfortable.

Had problems finding alot of Van de Stadt's for sale. 
On the S&S 34 despite their sensational pointing ability and proven sea kindliness, I have heard alot of cruiser's poo poo them as lacking storage and a practical cruising layout.

What say you all on steel Adams designs?? Adams 35/40 seem to range anywhere between 65-110k depending on condition.....


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Adams never designed a dog. All good designs. How are they built is a different question. Steelies are great if they never had (except staining) any rust. If it is hidden or recently painted over, you are in for a never ending tail chase. Round hulled steelies also may not be as honest as multi chines. 

Steelies are tough, but then so is a GRP made in 70's or 80's. They werent sure as to how strong glass was, so were made extra strong. Younger boats are thin. If the rigging needs to be tightened, something is moving.

You'll find your boat and it will suit your family. 

Keep a coldy. Its a small world.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

A very hard decision to make. In the light of day our decision to buy a 34'er as a toe back in the water after some years without a boat was both right and wrong. It was made however on the basis that if we realised that we had lost the desire then the financial downside would not be great and a smaller boat was good to relearn skills, particularly with a partner who had little sailing experience.

The VDS 34 is a great little boat. We love her and I would sail her anywhere. Quite good tankage. We rerigged her standing and running so confident in all that. Acceptable galley, very comfortable saloon offering two good sea berths. Aft quarter berth used more as a shed than a berth. 

Steel may be great for strength but it does require continual maintenance and buying a non professionally built steel boat can be a minefield. Thankfully ours was built to strict VDS quality standards.

OTOH, we have realised that at our age 34' is simply too small. She is a bit tight for general stowage. For cruising max crew two unless you are seriously compatible with the third person.

Our plan at the moment is to go 40' plus but not much plus.

In general I would probably not buy another steel boat. Ours has no major rust problems but there are always small dings to take care off and keeping the rust streaks off the hull is a right pain in the arse unless you are very anal about that kind of stuff. OTOH, second hand steel represents excellent value for money.

That said Adams (and his colleague Graham Radford) designed some truely great boats. Hey an Adams cement boat , The Floating Footpath, Helsal, took line honours in the Sydney Hobart and you will not find too many club fleets in Australia without a goodly selection of Adams/Radford designs. They have cruised the world, raced round the buoys and still can make an honest showing down the coast to Hobart. The Adams 40 (aka Naut 40 and Bluewater 40) are absolute rippers. Find a good one and you will not be disappointed.

Ref the S & S 34....compared to Beneteaus...yep they are cramped. I am not so averse to Bennys as some although the newer they are, the flimsier they seem to become. Then again when it was first released the S&S 34 was a racer..albeit cruiser racer....took outright in the Syd Hob one year....and were probably sneered at for being too lightweight. They have circled (John Sanders Perie Banou) and like many smaller cruiser racers can be tight on for tankage. Same applies to the venerable Dunc 35 and later 34. When we bought Raven I was originally pushing for a Dunc 37 aft cockpit. She was a beauty but with an interior layout that not many couples could live with. 

BTW...if you havn't already done so.....go and look......if you are judging interior space by pics on YachtHub then you are about to find out that the camera does in fact lie and lies like a politician on the hustings.

Good Luck

ps - my comments re centre cockpit stand but I do note that the VDS Seal, being flush deck all the way aft has a more spacious aft cabin than most sub 40' centre cockpits. Find good Seal and you have found a good boat. There was one for sale up Pittwater way late last year. If I can find it I'll send you the contact details.


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## RMCA (Mar 25, 2009)

Hi Guys,

I'm brand new to this forum and after reading this decided to sign up to say thanks, there is some really interesting information here!

I've been researching 34-38ft yachts for over a year and have struggled to get much solid info on common Aussie built yachts. My interests reflect those of others here - I'm after a used yacht that is well-built for ocean crossing, but limited by budget to sub $100K Oz, knowing fit out will gobble up a chunk of the savings. I'm willing to compromise on quite a few features I want, in order to get a rock-solid construction, especially in the quality of fibreglass construction in the hull and deck.

Its pretty easy to get good info on North-American built yachts (eg. "20 affordable sailboats to take you anywhere", and forum-based offshore yacht lists, etc.), but obviously there's many more options on the market here in Oz that are rarely discussed online. I'm currently working on my own surveying skills but it helps big time to hear names of quality boats like the ones mentioned above.

My small list to date of yacht designs that are often available on the Australian market and that seem well-built for offshore work only includes S&S, Duncanson, Van De Stadt, and Cole. From this thread it sounds like I should add Adams and a couple others!

I have two questions if anyone is interested:

1. Is anyone aware of a web-based list of well-built Aussie cruising yachts like the Mottle that are suiltable for offshore sailing? especially ones which are commonly found on the used-boat market here in Oz. If not, as a brand new forum member I'm a little nervous suggesting a new thread is started listing offshore-suitable Australian yachts (like the yacht builder list on this forum). Anyone interested?  I'm willing to help out with the little I know.

2. Are you aware of any common 34-40ft Oz-built cruising yachts from the 70s-90s that look the part for offshore sailing (eg. aren't obvious coastal cruising designs) but were often poorly built? Eg. A 'Here's some one's to avoid list' ! Custom Ferros probably go without saying.

Cheers..


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks Anna and TDW.

We have gone a looked at some boats, but your right probably not enough. Our problem is that any of these boats look positively spacious compared to our current yacht, but we know that living aboard for a period of time will make having appropriate storage and space to move very important.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Hey welcome RMCA! 

Looks like your in a similar yacht hunting situation to me.

My only advice would be to be honest about whether you truly need a true indestructable bluewater 'old shoe' type boat. We thought we did initially, then we looked at our cruising plans realistically and realised that a well built coastal cruiser capable of some bluewater hopping around the Pacific or Asia was more what we actually needed.
There would be nothing worse than buying a boat capable of rounding the capes, and finding yourself sat in the Whitsundays on a heavy totally inappropriate 'old shoe' boat.

I say good idea on a thread listing well built Aussie yachts.


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## RMCA (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks, good point, yes I favour going for a lighter design if possible. 

As far as my own plans go we've been making preparations for a big trip for 4 years now: from Bris, up and across the top, then Indian Ocean down to Cape Town, up across the Atlantic to the eastern Carribean then back across to the Med to finish up. Flexible with plans but that's our very rough outline at this stage. Lots of cruising before but never taken a couple of years off to do something so long like this. We are paying much attention to seasonal planning so don't expect to get caught out in 40kt+ conditions but obviously want to allow for it (been caught out in a gale before, nice piece of mind knowing the boat is stronger than you). Hence our interest in a very well-built boat.

It seems to be a good time to buy at the moment, to the point I actually feel sorry for boat owners who feel forced to sell at a low price. Good for us buyers though!
I think a review of common used Aussie boats would be a great resource for many..


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

If your plans include crossing the Indian Ocean then yes a true solid bluewater capable boat what have to be on the cards. You can't do that passage in a weather window!

Best of luck with the hunt


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

We are constantly looking at ways to improve the site and I'm hoping that we can upgrade the Boat builders Row. Stay tuned. Maybe we can add a section on Oz boats.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

While we are on a roll, can I chuck another boat into the hat for thoughts and opinion?

The Martzcraft 35. I think it was based on a Bruce Roberts design initially. 
It is another Centre Cockpit design.
TDW Is a cramped aft cabin your main reason for being opposed to Centre Cockpit designs of this size?


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## mottleman (Jun 15, 2009)

Try here for Mottle 33 answers ... 200 members and 62 mottle 33's registered

groups.yahoo.com/group/Mottle33

cheers
John


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks Mottleman I definitely will, I didn't know such a group existed. I am looking at a lot of boats at the moment but seem to keep coming back to to the Mottle.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Some good information in that group John thankyou again.

Just out of curiousity alone, do you know of anyone who has taken a Mottle further than just coastal cruising??


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## Mottle (Jan 14, 2017)

8 years after a thread another post.
Because people might be looking at a Mottle 33 and come across these posts, l thought l might add an owners perspective.
I bought Willi Will 2 in Emu Park QLD about 15 months ago and sailed down solo to Tasmania in 5 weeks.
I had previously built a Roberts steel 34 and sailed solo across the Bight in winter. 
l say that because after sailing the Mottle the Roberts is just a piece of s#%t.
I can't believe how stable and a joy to sail these boats are when the wing picks up.
So far have had the boat surfing to 12 knots (chart plotter) down the outside of Fraser with only pole out Genoa thru the night (gusting 36knots).
Across Bass Straight gusting 32knts, again l couldn't believe how well it sailed with breaking beam seas just North of Flinders Is, were the sea comes up from 2000M to 50M. Here l expected to see some water come into the cockpit, as l would watch the boat roll down into a trough and the braking wave was just about to jump into the boat and she would lift her beam and take it on the side.
l haven't sailed on any flasher type boats but if the Beneteau or the likes can keep up with that best of luck to them.
Mottle 33 $12-50K, Beneteau 34 $180k+, I don't think you can buy a better boat for the dollars.
That said if you have the money and want something flasher go for, but l haven't read any stories of how amazed people are about there plastic fantastic's when the wind really starts to blow and how great they handled the seas (not talking about gusting 30-40 knts, l mean a real blow)
I still haven't had the Mottle in what l have had in the Roberts, but believe in would handle it way better and put on a lot more miles while doing it.
GO THE MOTTLE 33.
Kevin


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