# Lavac toilet questions



## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

HI.

I am in the process of replacing my old head. Based on some research, Lavac Popular (24V) seems to be the best bet, however I do have some questions about it. Any help is appreciated.

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1. Some say that it is not guest friendly. Why?

2. My old head did have a macerator, this way If I was pumping into the sea, the "hard stuff" came out in "small pieces". How is it with the Lavac? Is there some mechanism built in to break it up? Or else, is it feasible to build a macerator into the system?

3. Also worried about having to use the toilet brush to clean up after harder jobs. Do you ever have to do this? Asking because this would require two flushes and a waiting time of 2 minutes (at worst) between them which is not really user-friendly. (What I can think of is that the strength of the vacuum pull causes the flushing water to entirely clean of any mess)

4. Is there a way to add water to the toilet before the next job, if leaving it dry.

5. What is the power consumption of the 24V (or 12V) electric pump? How is it compared to other toilets?

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Thanks ,
tg


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm not a big fan of electric heads on boats. They tend to have more problems that you can avoid with the manual units. 

The biggest complaint I've seen with Lavacs, is that when you're seasick, you can't open the unit immediately after flushing it... making it tough on the person who is seasick, and on the person who has to clean up after them. 

From what I've seen the Lavac tends to break the "hard stuff" up in to smaller pieces due to the vacuum used to empty the bowl. 

Why would you want to add water to the toilet before the next job?? If that is the case, then you can always add it manually, using a cup from the head sink. 

My guess is that the power consumption is probably lower than that of other electric heads, having no macerator in the system. You can read the specs and that should say what the draw of the unit is.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I recently installed a lavac in my boat, with a gravity drain holding tank. When more than 3 miles out, all i have to do is turn a valve and the tank drains itself! They seem guest freindly to me, just different than some might be used to. The pump itself macerates the waste as it goes through it. Getting the water level in the bowl right tales some time, but it isn't any different than another toilet, although a tb would be nice, i don't have one yet. If for some reason the bowl doesn't fill right, I have found that just flushing it again works. The vacuum is very strong, the seat lid bends down quite a bit when you pump it (from all the suction). I will say this, I installed a Groco ball valve just before the water enters the toilet, after the vented loop, just incase. The water intake is looped above the waterline, with a siphon break. With these 2 safety features, my boat is much less likely to sink because of a toilet leak!
ON A SIDE NOTE; if you like windsports...go to youtube and type in extreme kite wing.....I can't wait for the snow!!!!!


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

I had intended to replace our head (pumps out, doesn't pump in) with a Lavac, until I read Jeff's comments, here.

As to maceration: I would imagine all pumps "macerate" to a degree. ISTM unlikely any of them chop things up as finely as a macerator.

Jim


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

*Lavac*

The lavac never failed us - it was a big improvement over the others we've had, and we have never had any problems with the two gaskets.
We use a manual Henderson pump not an electric, but a buddy of mine installed a Lavac with an electric and manual pump in series, which seems to work fine.
He actually installed the Lavac after trying ours - He's very thorough, so I'll spare you all the details


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## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

sailingdog:
-the electric option is a must, as this is a charter boat with guests already used to the electric pump in the old head ... i plan to install a manual backup though.
-as I read in forums, having water in the bin before the job makes it easier for the pump (and I suppose it makes the toilet cleaner)

southerncross:
-"getting the water level right takes some time" --- you mean I will have to experiment with the timer (electric) or the pump cycles (manual)? or with the size of the air-hole?
-the groco ball seems to be a good idea 

How about the cleanliness issue? Does the vacuum itself make the toilet spotless or do you need some brushing between two flushes?


SEMIJim:
-Jeff complains about the seals -> many others have used this toilet for long times without problems
-He also says something about the poor "wash down" which is almost an answer to my cleanliness issue
ANYONE ELSE HAVE EXPERIENCE ON THESE PROBLEMS?
(Thx, JomsViking ... replies are coming up so fast, I just cannot finish mine )

One more thing: There are times when you have to use "extreme amounts" of toilet paper ... Will it clog the system?

Thanks for the replies,
tg


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I have yet to experience any of the problems noted by Jeff H. Infact, i installed a new Raratin last summer in another boat. I have found the Lavac is much easier to use and hook up. They just redesigned the toilet, apparently to fix some of those trouble spots Jeff mentioned. The giant pump is what macerates the waste. The pumps are MUCH larger than those on other boats, and don't have any valves, so they won't clog. For me it comes down to safety, the lavac is the only toilet i know of that has the water intake vented above the water line. I'm sure youv'e had the experience of having your bowl get full while sailing, or the fear that someone didn't shut off the seacock when you leave the boat. With the Lavac there is much less to worry about. If you hook it up to a grvity drain system, life doesn't get any easier!!!
T, I meant the size of the air-hole, the kit comes with 2, deciding which one to use was all i meant. For me it took time to hook everything up and test. Mine is a manual system, i have never tried the electric one.


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

We'll keep 'em coming!
It has been my experience that the Lavac clogs less than others, it is really hard to clog a diapraghm pump as the Henderson. However the teenager managed to clog it recently with some cotton thingies for removing makeup - It took me 20 seconds to open the pump and remove the offending parts, although I did not enjoy, because there were also other things in there


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## 7Psych (Aug 28, 2007)

Am new to the "Head" thing as all of our other boats used porta-potties, none of which were ever used. Anyway, not to hi-jack this thread and now that we are on the subject, can one use "regular" toilet paper or do you need to purchase the marine paper? 
Thanks.........Dale


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

7Psych,

Just find a brand that dissolves relatively quickly when you put it in some water - you don't have to use it first


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## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies so far - You guys have been very helpful
...
Still waiting for answers on the ---brushing needed, or spotless after flush--- issue. 
What Im asking is: After laying the cable, closing the lid, pressing the button (or pumping like 10 times) can you just simply leave the room without checking the conditions in the bowl?

tg


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Lavac toliets have been rated #1 in all cruisers forums including SSCA guide to what works and don't. Not sure what Practical sailor has rated them. 
Now for the woman's touch keeping odors at bay and the bowl clean. I got this from one of the cruiser logs I read and it works. 
I use a combination of baking soda and vinegar. I hear some people use bleach to an excess when cleaning their toilets. Then they flush it all into the holding tank! Not a good idea. Often times the bleach mixes with the gunk, critters, and deodorizers already in the tank and that's a mix that will definitely produce that sickening sweet worse-than-a-skunk-on-fire odor that makes your hair stand on end. 
I clean my bowl and tank with vinegar and baking soda. It works to keep both smelling fresh. Right before and after a pump out I do the baking soda and vinegar thing. That combination will also 
clear your hoses of calcium buildup. A friend of mine use to take her hoses off and beat them on the docks to break up the calcium. Of course I told her anytime you go to the trouble of taking your hoses off... replace them! Ha! She was very happy to find out about what vinegar and baking soda can do for her problem. She thanks me to this day!
I use one of the little boxes of baking soda, the kind you would put in your refrigerator, and one quart of vinegar. Put 1/2 quart in the toilet and sprinkle the entire contents of the little box of baking soda over it. Then pour in the other 1/2 quart of the vinegar. It will fizz and bubble and churn... and that's what you want! Wait five minutes and pull the toilet handle once. Wait five minutes as it bubbles and well, you know... keep doing this with the handle every five minutes (longer doesn't hurt) until all the baking soda and vinegar are gone. This will serve to clear your pipes of gunk and calcium buildup. You can either have it pump overboard or into your holding tank (I prefer the holding tank because it keeps working in there too!). 
Vinegar and baking soda will also clear your sink drain and pipes. Close the thru-hull and use an 8th of the concoction above. It will let you know when it's done because it stops fizzing. Open the thru-hull and you're liable to hear the drain blowout as its released... no harm done. Follow that up with one teapot of boiling water. Your sink drains will smell clean and fresh. And it is all environmentally friendly!


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

I can only agree Lavac toliets are fool proof, as far as using the brush on the skiddies with the manual flush only do a half flush this will empty the bowl, use brush then full flush no probs we did have a rule that men must be girls or pray. {sit on, or kneel before the head, never stand}


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Another toliet to possible consider is the Groco-K model. I have heard nothing but great things about it as well. A little pricey but so is the Lavac. 
http://www.groco.net/images/toilets/Toilets_KSeries.html

I agree with Simon as far as sitting or praying infront of the throne to do one's business. After they clean up the mess a few times most guys get the intent.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lavac doesn't like to promulgate this but one of the bigger problems occurs when non-sailing guests are aboard. Frequently, being unused to the motion of a boat underway, they will attempt to take care of everything while they are sitting down, rather than off-balance standing up.

This includes pumping vigorously while they are seated, in an effort to ensure that their host is not subject to any unpleasant surprises when it comes time for their turn at the facility.

As the Lavac operates on the vacuum principle, and as a large segment of the population grows somewhat corpulent in their advancing years, when the pumping action sucks the air out of the bowl, the pumpee finds their flabby nether regions establish a perfect seal around the rim, and they are unable to rise.

As the initial panic sets in, their first instinct is to grasp at anything handy for support in an attempt to wrench themselves free, however, as the handiest thing is usually the pump handle itself, their energies only serve to worsen an already dire situaton

The less self-conscious amongst them (usually the men), can be expected to call for help at this point, and the skipper and remaining crew are usually able to combine their strength and pull the unfortunate excretor free of the contraption. However, the more modest men and most of the ladies, will usually try to free themselves quietly in order to avoid shame and exposure.

All manner of things are tried. Disassembling the head with a nail file, further filling the bowl to lessen the vacuum pressure, tearing away the flesh on the thigh to attempt to free it, all to no avail.

In particularly egregious cases, the vacuum has become so strong that pacemakers, false teeth, breast implants and other sundries have been sucked clear through the victim to end up trapped just above the outlet valve.

A careful perusal of the British insurance annals will reveal hundreds of claims for the replacement of such items, tucked in amongst yard bills for labour costs "6 hours - head maintenance and repair". The British, personifying discretion as they do, have developed a process to defray these charges.

Whilst the less subtle insurers would probably just add a rider to policies such as "Power Crapper Protection", Lavac prefers a behind-the-scenes approach. For every head installed on a boat, Lavac submits a premium to the Lloyds "names", that is, the individuals whose personal wealth is the guarantee of Lloyds solvency. This is why Lavac heads are so costly. The apparatus itself could profitably be made and sold for under $100.00 US, the insurance preimums per unit however, require that an extra $300.00 to $400.00 be tacked on to the price in order to ensure that the marine insurance industry of the British Isles does not go bankrupt.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sailormann, I never thought of that. As I have a Lavac head, I think putting some signs up in the head, may be the prudent thing to do.


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

SailorMann,

I use the same method when congested - Just stop before the cranium caves in..


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## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

ROFL 


 Even a bigger problem with electric pumps, where you just can't stop pumping.


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## kmclarke (Aug 19, 2006)

I have two Lavac heads . Only one is plumbed to a holding tank , so we use that one when in no discharge areas, but it seems to fill up way too quickly. In one to one and a half days the 30 gal tank is full. Obviously we are pumping too long but it takes that long for the bowl to clean. I mean the water not the skiddies. The odor in both heads is very strong if we don't flush as long . I am considering replacing them with a different toilet. Mine are electric.
Kevin


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JomsViking said:


> SailorMann,
> 
> I use the same method when congested - Just stop before the cranium caves in..


Joms-

What does that say about what you have for brains???


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Joms-
> 
> What does that say about what you have for brains???


Hey Dog, it was a thread about VACUUM HEADS, sort of had my name on it? 

SailorMann, I still have a picture of a BIG man stuck on a Lavac screaming for help in my head - it really wasn't nice of you to put it there!


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## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

Just got this reply:

"The Lavac won't clog (or never has) but it doesn't do a very good job of rinsing the sides of the bowl (especially of toilet tissue). If one has good direction aim while seated this isn’t a problem. A second flush, often preceded by a directional rinse shot from the shower hose is frequently needed."
- Carl @ ssca.org

How about this ? ... Does not seem to be very convenient to flush/wait 2mins/flush again (especially if I dont have a shower in the head)
Any positive/negative experience with this?


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

I guess that depends on how much paper You're using - never had a problem with that. Btw I don't have to wait 2 minutes, but only 5-10 seconds because there's no valve in the intake, but merely a hole which I put my finger over while pumping. There's seldom anything on the sides - Except for once when we were drinking heavily the day before, and NO, you don't wanna know!


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## tgeewe (May 27, 2005)

LOL - you are right ... don't wanna know


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

JomsViking said:


> The lavac never failed us - it was a big improvement over the others we've had, and we have never had any problems with the two gaskets.
> We use a manual Henderson pump not an electric, but a buddy of mine installed a Lavac with an electric and manual pump in series, which seems to work fine.
> He actually installed the Lavac after trying ours - He's very thorough, so I'll spare you all the details


We have the Lavac with the Henderson pump, and everyone loves it. You are wise to buy some spares before a long trip, because they are subject to eventual wear, but the principle is so obviously superior to any manual head of my acquaintance (Jabsco, Brydon, Par) that I wouldn't change it. The only manual I'd heard of with the same reputation is the Wilcox-Crittenden. Another benefit is that you can easily "T" in a one-way valve and hose pickup to have a manual sump pump for an in-head shower. I'm not saying I wouldn't have a small electric sump pump, but I'm the sort of guy who wants non-electrical alternatives...I altered my foot pump in my old boat's head to drain the mast sump because electric pumps didn't fit and I was tired of taking out a litre or two via sponge and bucket.

I don't think electricity has any place near the crapper in salt air...sorry, I'm just not that lazy or squeamish.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

kmclarke said:


> I have two Lavac heads . Only one is plumbed to a holding tank , so we use that one when in no discharge areas, but it seems to fill up way too quickly. In one to one and a half days the 30 gal tank is full. Obviously we are pumping too long but it takes that long for the bowl to clean. I mean the water not the skiddies. The odor in both heads is very strong if we don't flush as long . I am considering replacing them with a different toilet. Mine are electric.
> Kevin


Something is wrong with your installation. You have a partial hose clog, or worn seals at the pump, or worn gaskets, or a plugged vent. I don't need to pump 1/3 of that to accomplish my tasks.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Most sailors on this thread (Jeff's referred-to comments included) who report "user friendly" issues with Lavac marine toilets (installed with the Henderson pump) are either not using them correctly, or lack the necessity of a nearby hand shower.

We have two Lavacs onboard our Nauticat and It's obvious to me that Nauticat yachts knows the proper use of these English built heads. This is evidenced by the installation of a hand shower adjacent to every head they commissioned a yacht with.

Our process is as follows:

After evacuating _liquid_ body waste, whether squatting, standing or otherwise, there are never any worries about flushing . . . close the gasketed cover lid over the seat and pump 6 to 8 times. This empties the bowl within 3 or 4 pumps and then sucks seawater up to the bowl from the through hull, to about 2-3" deep. The amount of standing water can be adjusted by the siphon vent. You cannot open the cover lid for 1 to 2 minutes due to the vacuum. But guaranteed . . . the contents will be clear seawater.

Solid matter requires a different process. After defecating, or the oral ejection of undigested food matter, first use the hand shower to rinse the sides of the bowl with fresh water. Then, with the cover lid OPEN - operate the Henderson pump handle 2 or 3 times - or until the bowl's contents disappear from view. Repeat this step until everything is clear. At this point, skid marks can be wiped clean using the adjacent TB brush, additional spray treatments - or by using a wad of TP.

When assured that nothing else remains - THEN close the cover lid and pump 4 or 5 times (longer depending upon total mass of evacuation) and rest assured the bowl will be clean for the next use.

We have a 140 gal fresh water tank, so this method presents no tankage hardship.


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

I put in a new lavac manual this spring. A couple of points:

- The flange that holds the cover and lid to the bowl is a piece of plastic, that does not want to stay tight, and if it loosens, will cause the lid and cover to slide off.

- Re: the vacuum issues - Even if you had a seal problem, you can always flush the contents from the bowl, then add water, and flush that down too. The vacuum only serves to draw more water into the bowl, as it pulls out everything else. I have a small vacuum leak, that I haven't fixed yet, at the bowl water inlet (connector, not hose / clamp - checked those already)
However I can still flush, and pour some water in and flush again. 

- I do feel it takes alot more water than they claim to flush, if you want to ensure your lines (and Y-valve) are clean.

- It has been clogged a couple of times, and the users claimed they didn't put much paper down, etc. It eventually went through, after leaving it sit for a while, and trying again - Part of the reason I paid 2 or 3 times the price of a cheaper brand was so this would NOT happen. Not confidence inspiring though, wondering if you are going to break the pump, and have sh#t everywhere. 

Question to the lavac users: Did you guys install a vented loop on teh inlet side, or just use the little lavac valve??
I put a vented loop valve in to prevent unwanted siphon action (sinking the boat) - Lavac says not to use a vented loop, but instead to cut a small hole in your inlet hose, and put their valve in (which I can no longer find)- The size of the hole determines how much water enters bowl after flushing. Although I have suction, it never fills the bowl with water. I don't know if it is the air leak at the back, the different valve, or both.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

> Question to the lavac users: Did you guys install a vented loop on teh inlet side, or just use the little lavac valve??


Northeaster,
Both of my Lavacs are as installed by the boat builder and have the Lavac valve installed at the upper end of the vented loop.

The valve is a very low-tech, red plastic tube-like plug which was inserted into a hole punched into the hose. A pin hole at the exposed flange section of the valve on our forward head wasn't large enough - resulting in seawater drawn into the bowl to about the mid-point. I inserted a hot needle into the hole to open it up a bit. Now we get a smaller amount - roughly 2-3 inches deep.

Both our Lavacs perform flawlessly and would never consider replacement with anything else. However, the first time our daughter joined us for a 2 week cruise to the Vineyard, oblivious to my instructions and the plaque-card I made above the head, copious amounts of TP were used . . resulting in a valve clog. Fortunately it occured during the sail back to Newport and we did have a back-up head. The valve cleared out easily enough by removing the access cover on the Henderson pump.

The only other problem we've had was a cracked cover - resulting from a pump-out event with the lid closed and the Y-valve not getting diverted before the holding tank pump-out. I learned the hard way, after paying $150.00 for a new cover lid.



> Although I have suction, it never fills the bowl with water. I don't know if it is the air leak at the back, the different valve, or both.


If there are no cracks in the lid, then I would suspect either a seat or lid gasket may be defective. Easy fix.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Everything True Blue says rings...true blue...

The Lavacs require a slightly greater understanding of how "used water" gets pushed uphill, and yes, guests have to understand the drill (which is really just two parts, after all), but the results are superior to the undersized, sticky, leaky and just simply poorly built alternative manual heads.

Of course, it is helpful not to have people aboard in the first place too dim to grasp how to pump a head. It is also helpful not to be inhibited in outlining exactly how much toilet paper is customary. Sailors should never mince words when it comes to holes in the boat.

I would suggest this is an easy thread-closer: Either you like them and know how to keep them functioning, or you don't. Good luck and good day.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, old thread but subject works....kind of. 

Lavac head, manual, outlet through H Mk V to a vented loop. Worked beautifully but started dribbling through the vent. Put in a new one last weekend and now the bloody thing whistles when you pump. Damned annoying. I guess I can just keep trying new caps but anyone have any ideas ?

ps - on the general subject I wouldn't use anything else.


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