# Everthing I know about outboards.



## meboater (May 4, 2008)

After an exhaustive search, for the right motor for my Tanzer 22, I have learned the following:


Tohatsu/nissan/merc seem to be the lightest.

Tohatsu Sailpro seems great on paper. Many T-22's are powered by 6hp two strokes, including mine. Real world experience with the Sail pro seems to indicate that at WOT they are buzzier and less powerful than an old two stroke. Pity.

That puts me into the 8+ category. The only high thrust setups seem to be Yamaha, but are expensive, and weigh in at over 100 lbs.

Tohatsu 8/9.8 are really the same engine, but the 8 has it's power limited.

Given that I want a charging system, I need to get an electric start. I can retrofit a rectifier, but it will cost more than a factory installed electric start and charging system.
So- I have a line on a new tohatsu 9.8 with electric start/charging for 1800. It is heavier than I want, and more engine than I need.

Any drawbacks to this setup? It uses more gas WOT than an 8hp, but I figure I'll reach hull speed well before that. In real world use, will it use more gas than an 8hp?

Any thoughts, or alternative suggestions greatly appreciated.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Sounds like you've done your homework and are hoping somebody here will know something you don't... barring somebody saying "DON'T BUY THAT MOTOR" I would just go for it.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

As you say,I don't think you need a 9.8 on a T22... the 8 horse would be plenty. Whether the "charging system" is truly effective would be nice to know.. electric start is hardly necessary for such a small engine otherwise.

btw, in the smaller sizes Tohatsu, Merc, Nissan etc are all built by Tohatsu - one interesting tidbit when we last bought an outboard is that Nissan offered twice the warranty.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Charging system is indeed unimpressive on the small motors. In principle my O/B has a 4A charging circuit and I actually don't have any idea whether it works or not. We use a portable A/C charger to keep the batteries topped up.


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## parttimesailor (Sep 18, 2006)

*Does the 8 HP sell for a lower price?*



meboater said:


> After an exhaustive search, for the right motor for my Tanzer 22, I have learned the following:
> 
> 
> Tohatsu/nissan/merc seem to be the lightest.
> ...


Seems like "same engine" at lower power might last longer?


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## meboater (May 4, 2008)

at 1800, it's a little cheaper than the 8hp. Assuming there are no drawbacks to the 9.8, I figure it's a decent deal. Higher resale, will push any boat I am likely to buy in the foreseeable future. Also, given that I figure I won't be running it full out, hopefully it won't be very stressed.

I do wonder: two identical boats, side by side, one running the 8hp, one running the 9.8, which uses more fuel?


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

My Quickstep came with an 8hp 2 stroke Yamaha. I replaced it with an 8hp 4 stroke Honda. The extra weight makes the stern sit low. It's not the end of the world, but if I had it to do again, weight would be more of a factor in my selection. Both the Yamaha and Honda indluded a charging circuit, but neither had electric start. The electric start seems like a nice feature, but adds yet more weight.


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## meboater (May 4, 2008)

I would love to find an 8hp two stroke with a charging circuit and manual start. Plenty of power, light. Just what I need. doesn't seem to exist.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I would just go with the 6hp tohatsu sail pro. It will vibrate, but it will get you to hull speed. I am pretty confident that a T22 does not take much to get moving. 

Interestingly the 4hp Tohatsu is the same engine as the 6hp with a different carb, shorter leg, no charging system, and a different prop. 

If you can, get the "elephant ear" prop from internet outboards. I have heard bad things about both internet outboards and online outboards, so take your pick!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would point out that what is more important than HP is having the right prop. Most of these outboards come with a prop that is better suited to moving a light aluminum jonboat at higher speeds rather than the higher power, lower speed prop a sailboat needs. 

Getting the right prop, so you can use the engine at WOT and have the power you need to keep the boat at "cruising" speed is essential. 

How much does your boat displace? The typical rule of thumb is 1 HP / 500 lbs. of boat or so. I doubt your boat is 5000 lbs, so 9.9 is probably too much HP for it.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Dog-

So how do we choose the right prop for our outboards? I have the Honda 9.9 4-stroke (yes, I know it's overkill, but it's new and came with the boat). I hope this isn't a hijack as the info may help the OP as well.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

You have to just look for a high Thrust Prop that fits your brand 

There will NOT be a lot of picks BUT i am sure they make it as i have seen it on a Honda at my marina


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd recommend trying a Pirahna Prop composite prop. They have a blade exchange program if you're not getting the performance you're looking for. You do need a tachometer to really do this right, as you need to see what the WOT RPMs are at...

Pick the wrong prop and you can easily over rev the engine, which is bad. Pick the wrong prop in the other direction, you can easily over prop the engine, limiting your WOT RPM to too low a speed and damage the engine by lugging it.

I would add a tach and see what your WOT RPMs are and what your SOG is and go from there. Ideally, the engine should be propped so that you're in the middle or slightly below the middle of the WOT recommended range, and that you're making hull speed at that point in time.



BubbleheadMd said:


> Dog-
> 
> So how do we choose the right prop for our outboards? I have the Honda 9.9 4-stroke (yes, I know it's overkill, but it's new and came with the boat). I hope this isn't a hijack as the info may help the OP as well.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Hm..ok. I have a dwell/tach that I should be able to connect. I'll need a GPS to get my speed though.


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## meboater (May 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> I would point out that what is more important than HP is having the right prop. Most of these outboards come with a prop that is better suited to moving a light aluminum jonboat at higher speeds rather than the higher power, lower speed prop a sailboat needs.
> 
> Getting the right prop, so you can use the engine at WOT and have the power you need to keep the boat at "cruising" speed is essential.
> 
> How much does your boat displace? The typical rule of thumb is 1 HP / 500 lbs. of boat or so. I doubt your boat is 5000 lbs, so 9.9 is probably too much HP for it.


The boat displaces 3100 pounds. We generally have it pretty heavily loaded with two of us and two dogs. We carry food, water, spares, tools, an extra gas can, etc.

I have On a 40 mile motoring day, we averaged better than 5 knots by GPS, not bad for a boat with a hull spped less than 6 knots.

I want to want the Sail pro. I don't get why it won't push my boat better than an old 2 stroke. I get that the power delivery is different, but it seems to me 6hp is 6hp. And, factor into acount the longer shaft, and the high thrust prop, it should push it better.

It's light, cheap, and has a charging system.

I am sure it would work for occasional use, and docking. We rarely day sail- much more frequently out for 1-7 nights. That often puts us in places we need to motor out of. Sometimes all day.

From what I have read those who have it consider it to push much less than a 6hp two stroke. While I have gotten by fine with that amount of power, I don't want to upgrade to less power.

Also- it is reported as having a lot of vibration. Unfortunately, I don't know whether that is compared to an old two stroke, or a new 2 cylinder 4 stroke.

I am trying to get out of buying an over sized, over priced motor, and started this thread in the hopes that somebody would have a great idea. Appreciate all the input.

HH


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

*Huh?*



tager said:


> I would just go with the 6hp tohatsu sail pro. It will vibrate, but it will get you to hull speed. I am pretty confident that a T22 does not take much to get moving.
> 
> Interestingly the 4hp Tohatsu is the same engine as the 6hp with a different carb, shorter leg, no charging system, and a different prop.
> 
> If you can, get the "elephant ear" prop from internet outboards. I have heard bad things about both internet outboards and online outboards, so take your pick!


What did you hear bad about us and where? Our record is 100% spotless with Tohatsu.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

sailingdog said:


> I would point out that what is more important than HP is having the right prop. Most of these outboards come with a prop that is better suited to moving a light aluminum jonboat at higher speeds rather than the higher power, lower speed prop a sailboat needs.
> 
> Getting the right prop, so you can use the engine at WOT and have the power you need to keep the boat at "cruising" speed is essential.
> 
> How much does your boat displace? The typical rule of thumb is 1 HP / 500 lbs. of boat or so. I doubt your boat is 5000 lbs, so 9.9 is probably too much HP for it.


Don't Buy It!
Sailingdog is absolutely correct, 8+ hp is way way too much hp, but hp is not the problem, it's the weight. Heavy astern is SLOW.
My Cape Dory 25 weighs 4000# With an 8 hp Honda I get hull speed (gps)
at less than 1/2 throttle, and any more throttle pushes the boat deeper in the water.
You need a 4-6 hp long shaft with a 6" pitch. I repeat: 6" pitch.
Dick


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I recently sailed on an Antrim 27 that had a Tohatsu. It had a higher pitch sound to it than my Honda but it was smaller, lighter and really moved the boat.

I really think I'd like to step down to something just a little smaller because I can't lock the Honda in the "up" position because it's too big.

What I can't figure out is how to make an honest swap with someone, so that I get a GOOD, slightly used, running engine for my boat. My luck is so poor, that I'll trade away my nearly-new Honda for a junker that repeatedly breaks down.


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## Canuckster (Feb 15, 2010)

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents for all its worth. I have a 7.5 Tanzer with a Mercury 9.8 ( or 9.9, can't remember ? ) 2 stroke long shaft with electric start with the stock prop. I never run it @ WOT, as the difference half throttle 4 knots to WOT being 5-6 knots , but the fuel economy goes WAY WAY down at WOT. I usually have 4 deep cycle batteries on board, so the 20 minutes or so it takes to get out into the lake, the actual motor charging the batteries is minimal at best. Hope this helps !


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## JimB517 (Feb 12, 2003)

*Tohatsu 9.8 on Catalina 25*

I have the Tohatsu 9.8 XXL shaft electric start on my Catalina 25. I got the 7 inch pitch prop. This motor has been flawless for 2 years. I have at times motored for 15 hours in one day. I get around 10 nmpg at 5 knots. Charging circuit works good and I'm pretty much independant of shore power with that and a couple of solar panels. I have probably 300 hours on the motor with zero problems.

I had the Honda 8 before and this motor is quieter, better mpg, more reliable (the Honda was always fouling the idle jet).

Love the electric start. Love the XXL shaft.

It is very heavy, though.

Usually cruise at 5 knots with the throttle just above idle.

My friend has the Mercury 6 HP Long shaft on his Cat 25. Works well, the shorter shaft is an issue and the motor vibrates more.


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## meboater (May 4, 2008)

TohatsuGuru said:


> What did you hear bad about us and where? Our record is 100% spotless with Tohatsu.


Hey tohatsuguru- since you're monitoring this thread; 1st off, I have no problem ordering from you guys.

Any chance you could give your thoughts on the Sailpro? On paper, it looks perfect. Most T-22's are powered in that range. With a rated displacement of 3100 lbs, the 1/500 formula isn't far off. I assume it acconts for a certain amount of fudge factor like a heavy cruising load, or passengers. My concern is that the only user reports I have seen aren't great. While some have said they like the motor, they haven't really said how they use them- for example, just through the mooring field, or for hours at a time when there is no wind.

Any thoughts on how this motor might compare to a 1996 short shaft 2 stroke johnson? How about noise and vibration?

I really appreciate people's input here. $1500-$2000 is a pretty big outlay for me. I just want to do it right.


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## CGMojo (Jul 6, 2007)

*Huh?*

Did I just read, "short shaft, two stroke johnson?"!!!!!!!


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

One to 500 is the minimum we recommend rather than a set guideline for perfect power. In fact, the only negative user report was from Scott(Audeojude) who was using the 6 on a load that exceeded 3000 lbs...Hence his issue with the engine reaching it's rated hp. When he purchased that 6(from another dealer) it came with a higher pitched propeller. The "pig" propeller was not available for sale in the U.S.(except through us) so he ended up wasting a lot of effort trying to fix an engine that wasn't broken. At last report, he was satisfied, though not thrilled with the engine. 

Personally I like the 6, if it is utilized for what it is intended. Boats up to 25' and under 3000 lbs. I like it even better when that load is under 2500 lbs as the closer you get to 3000 the more likely you are to be in a situation that a single cylinder 6 can't handle. People also tend to forget about the windage that a hull can have, which can also work against a small engine. So, I would tell you that you really should go with a two cylinder, 6-9.9, in any brand, as a first choice. A 6 Sail Pro will work for you, but there will be times where you will wish you had more. 

The Johnson would be a bad choice due to it being a short shaft and 15 years old. In it's day it was a great engine, but anything over ten years old does not meet the requirement of dependable power. That crosses every brand and model line. Lot's of individual exceptions to that...But, that is the reason they are exceptions Current engines I would look at would be the Yamaha 6/8 and the Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury 8/9.8/9.9. I prefer the Tohatsu, but I am self serving


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## meboater (May 4, 2008)

I appreciate the input. I guess I I wasn't clear about the Johnson 6hp; I wasn't suggesting I buy one- I have one. It is the only outboard I have owned, so it is my benchmark.

HH


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

I would keep the Johnson as a spare, but the rest still holds true...Too short and too old


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## Canuckster (Feb 15, 2010)

A "short shaft " ? A friend of mine HAD one, got caught in a major storm, and spent 20 hours getting bashed around as the motor was out of the water 75 % of the time due to waves . I think he now uses it to power his blender and makes drinks ! LOL


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## GulfTriton (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a Pearson Triton with a Tohatsu Sail Pro 6hp and I love it. My boat fully loaded weighs in around 9000lbs and the Sail Pro will push me around at 5 knots easily at half throttle. Most peoples dissatisfaction with small horsepower outboards stems from the fact that they are motoring when they should be sailing. I would have to say that 6hp outboards are becoming the standard for the Pearson Triton.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I know this is an older thread that has just popped back up - but a word of warning if you go for a Tohatsu. We have a 20HP Tohatsu and love it, BUT finding a dealer for repairs and finding parts like zincs has proven to be difficult. If you buy a Tohatsu make sure you know if there's an authorized service center near you in case of a warranty repair - and if you buy a zinc, buy three. While I like our engine, I wish I had spent the extra few bucks on a Honda 20HP - lighter, and far more dealers and part accessibility.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

BubbleheadMd said:


> I really think I'd like to step down to something just a little smaller because I can't lock the Honda in the "up" position because it's too big.
> 
> What I can't figure out is how to make an honest swap with someone, so that I get a GOOD, slightly used, running engine for my boat. (


Hey Bubblehead...I know this is a year old post from a resurrected thread, but if you're still in the same boat (so to speak) I need to trade up for more power. I have a great little Yamaha 5HP 2 stroker on my C25....it's a great motor, lightweight and runs like a champ....but I need just a little more oompfh. If you're serious about trading that Honda 9.9.....


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## SailorMan500 (Nov 13, 2011)

*Tohatsu SailPro*

I have used a SailPro 6 for three seasons on my Hunter 23.5. Hullspeed easily achieved, reliable, good fuel consumption and it tops up house-battery when motoring from Blaine WA to San Juans. Only complaint: steer-damping thumbscrew not adequate to hold course at low speed.
Since some cretin stole it from my garage I am now looking to replace with same.


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## SailorMan500 (Nov 13, 2011)

*Tohatsu SailPro*

I have used a SailPro 6 for three seasons on my Hunter 23.5. Hullspeed easily achieved, reliable, good fuel consumption and it tops up house-battery when motoring from Blaine WA to San Juans. Only complaint: steer-damping thumbscrew not adequate to hold course at low speed.
Since some cretin stole it from my garage I am now looking to replace with same.


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

We now have a steering lock mechanism available as an option on the 4/5/6 frame.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

meboater said:


> I would love to find an 8hp two stroke with a charging circuit and manual start. Plenty of power, light. Just what I need. doesn't seem to exist.


I have an 8 hp 2 stroke Johnson, high thrust prop, with the extra long shaft and a charging circuit.
Starts easy and runs like a dream.
$ 550. in lower Delaware


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## paulpangrazzi (Dec 26, 2011)

Flybyknight, is the motor still avail?


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## Kielanders (Dec 8, 2011)

I can't speak to your application or expected fuel consumption, but we have a Nissan/Tohatsu TLDI 40HP on one of our skiffs at our cabin. I love the engine, it has really performed flawlessly the past 5 years, and very easy to maintain.


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

.....


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## INMA (Sep 13, 2011)

I have a Mariner 5 which is a rebadged Tohatsu.

The steering friction device stopped working so I pulled the pivot apart and regreased the friction shoe and thumb screw. It worked perfectly once some grease was added manually to the friction area.


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