# Racing my C&C 32, have a question about mast track.



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

The bubble heads before me decided a forward bimini was WAY more important than sail size/shape, and moved the boom up (about 12 inches).
This forced them to cut a new sail slug groove into the mast.

Anyway, since I could not stand losing that 12 inches of sail area the entire length of the boom, I moved it back. I basically fudged the slot closed with two slabs of aluminum rivited into place, but the slot is not smooth and slugs don't traverse it well.

I have recently been diagnosed with RA, and I just don't have the hand strength anymore to struggle with raising/lowering the mainsail, and I am just getting into racing this boat well (its smoking the courses around here even in light air). 

Anyway, I was thinking strong track or sail track for the mainsail. Can anyone tell me if it makes sense on a 32 footer to do something like this. all I really want is a smooth slot for the sail slugs to ride in.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I am sorry to hear about your R.A. I know that can be seriously painful.

I understand that a lot of people really like the Strong Track system. I am somewhat agnostic about Strong Track on a less than 40 or so footer.

I had considered putting strong track on Synergy when I bought a new mainsail a little less than 10 years ago, and so sailed on a couple boats with the system before deciding it didn't make enough of a difference to be worth bothering with. Then I found out how expensive it was and was glad I had already decided it was off the table.

I get that this may not be the best answer since the right decision for you is a balance of your C&C having a much smaller mainsail than my boat, but I also don't know how much of a problem your RA is, and so whether the track would change how uncomfortable raising your mainsail will be.

I had a similar problem with the height of the slot in Synergy since the previous owners only had racing mainsails with bolt ropes. When I added slugs to Synergy's mainsail I made covers for the slot using pieces of aluminum angle. I cut one leg of the angle so it extended into the slot enough to be flush with the inside (i.e. forward) face of the mast groove. Then I filed the top and bottom edge of the angles to a near knife edge where it sits against the mast at the and bottom. I needed to bend the long leg of the angle to the radius of the mast so it lays flat against the mast. Finally, I bolted it on so I can remove the slugs through the existing slot.

I works well most of the time, but occasionally a slug will snag and I have to grind the winch to get it to pop free.

EDIT: Here is a picture. Hopefully, it is worth the 1000 words above.. I will note that they took less than a couple hours to fabricate and perfect. I will also note that is my old mainsail and before the mast was painted.

Jeff


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Sounds like you need to talk with a mobile aluminum welder to see if the slot you have can't be smoothed out better. He will have the knowhow and tools to figure out a solution. While a Strongtrack will certainly work, it seems like overkill on a boat this size.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

We put a Tides track on our J/92 last year. Much bigger main than the 32. Our goal was to lower the stack height. It works great and I can hoist the main without a winch handle. Also reefing is easier since sail drops even when not on the wind Highly recommended


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

I have a Harken mast track system on my 33. It's super nice to use but I am glad that the previous owners paid for it. Zero friction on the main either up or down.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

we have a Strong track on our first 30 looked at them all but liked the price and it works great. shorter stack height then any other. harken and antal the stack would have been 16" higher


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Thank you all for the info. The main on the 32 definitely IS small which is why I ask.

Maybe I did ask the wrong question. Is there a better way to smooth out that slot.

So you guys can help better I need a better picture. I'll see if I can update thread when I get one.

I can say the original slot was cut out of both sides of the slot, this one was deeper/wider but only one side. I took a stack of two flat pieces of aluminum, one overlaps the hole the other exactly fits the hole, but unfortunately not the inside curve.

The slot is uneven enough that the square slugs have gotten stuck and broken while hoisting (my bad under winch help). Round slugs seem better, but jam as well. I finally gave up and set a stop above the slot and one below so that I can hoist smooth enough without dealing with it.

I will add the masthead sheaves are likely shot, and helping to make hoisting tougher.

Finally my RA flare right now is taking much of my grip so I'm doing most things with mechanical assistance just to keep what grip I have left. I refuse to stop sailing, and sailing solo as frequently as possible. I'm trying to stay ahead of possible deterioration of my strength hopefully for only short periods. Safety being of course my first objective. I just started my medicine regimen so I'm looking at 3 to 4 months before I get some function back. Regardless I've really only been slowed by this about 3 months, and still managed a fleet 1st, and combined fleet 2nd, so I'm going quietly 

Let's table this till I can get close up of the botched slot. Maybe add sheave replace for next mast top trip, which I guess will not be me now.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

DominikSC said:


> do you guys actually do sailing races???
> That's awesome!!!


Um - yeah, sometimes it even almost fair  Mixed fleet racing is like allowing corvettes and volkwagon beetles in the same race then attempting to apply a number to the difference in performance in all conditions. Its about as successful too.. Still fun though.

Sorry I never got another shot of the slot on the mast.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I am looking through this old thread I started, and realized I never updated the group.
I should have read (and should have known better to read more closely) Jeff's post. I think filing down the edges a bit might have helped!

But regardless I think I have corrected the problem The issue appears to be the types of slugs on my sail. I had the slugs that were square, and the sail slot is rounded. I replaced most of the slugs on my sail to rounded slugs and the issue has all but gone away. It helps that I finally got my RA mostly under control (stupid thing like being able to make a fist again - and you know mostly able to walk too).

Anyway I posted this update in case someone else has the same issue. The slot in the mas is nearly round inside, so the flat slugs were a high friction point as well.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Glad you found a simple and relatively inexpensive solution!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Since I last weighed in on this, I have had a new mainsail made. The sail loft recommended Allslip sail slugs which are low friction slugs that come in all the typical profiles. They do seem to make a difference. 

We also used a different connection (rod and ball joint) between the full length battens ends and the slugs that reduces 'jamming', a problem I don't think that I experienced. 

In researching the Allslip slugs, it also appears that Ronstan has introduced a line of low friction slugs as well. 

Those might be the next approach to consider if you still have friction issues. 

Jeff


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## Den (11 mo ago)

A roller mounted to easy the entry angle. Tapering the edge gives it a cutting edge, dremel tool no worries. 
Track


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Den said:


> A roller mounted to easy the entry angle. Tapering the edge gives it a cutting edge, dremel tool no worries.
> Track


Can you explain what that is intended to mean? This is a boat with slugs in a mast groove. It does not have a bolt rope or a track so I don't follow this at all. 

Jeff


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

SHNOOL said:


> I am looking through this old thread I started, and realized I never updated the group.
> I should have read (and should have known better to read more closely) Jeff's post. I think filing down the edges a bit might have helped!
> 
> But regardless I think I have corrected the problem The issue appears to be the types of slugs on my sail. I had the slugs that were square, and the sail slot is rounded. I replaced most of the slugs on my sail to rounded slugs and the issue has all but gone away. It helps that I finally got my RA mostly under control (stupid thing like being able to make a fist again - and you know mostly able to walk too).
> ...


I believe my slides are similar but the "trapped" section is not a round "rod" shape but a square rod w/ easy edges. I suppose it would have more surface contact with the back of the slot groove and more friction. Would I notice a change in friction if I used the rounded rod type?
Main is heavy and hoist is long and I never was able to raise it myself higher than 10' from the top. Always had to do the last 10' with a winch. Now I do the entire hoist with a Milwaukee with a winch bit.... but I can see the friction IS a problem... even for Millie. 440SF main, 4 full battens, heavy dacron.


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## Den (11 mo ago)

So we have a mounting plate to put this in 😁


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## Den (11 mo ago)

You could design a 3D print a nice silver ASA cover to stop rain from washing on the bearings or entering the mast.


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## Den (11 mo ago)

I don’t know how wel I’ve explained that is a quick sketch without knowing dimensions but rather than creating drag and sharp edges a Long U of aluminum. Could be from an extrusion say 5/8” width. Drill press two parallel hole to fit the right size nylon pulley to suit your rope. The “U” should fit the pulley with a 1/16 for thin nylon washers. They act as bearing guards and friction reduction. Stainless bolts with resin lock nuts and again nylon washers. 
Weld the U on the bracket
Hold the pulley with a loop of rope line up bolt so you don’t compress the aluminum U. 
So the s pulley should relieve any hang up or resistance. 
I doodled up a cover in plastic 2 way tape over as a hood.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Den.
The way my boat, and most properly engineered boats are set up, the halyard never touches the exit slot. So adding a sheave that the halyard rides over would increase friction rather than reduce friction. Also bending a line through two sheaves would also multiply friction over a geometry where the halyard only contacts a single sheave. If a sheave is necessary the geometry should be designed so the halyard is deflected the very minimum from a straight line and only lightly hits one sheave at a time. 

What you have sketched would be a worst of all worlds assuring that the line makes 2 almost 90 degree turns, remaining in hard contact with both sheaves. Ideally, if sheaves are even needed, the sheaves should be smaller in proportion to the line diameter and offset so the lower sheave was deeper into the mast and the upper sheave further out of the mast. I would also be concerned about using a plastic sheave at a highly loaded location like a mainsail halyard. 

Respectfully,

Jeff


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## Den (11 mo ago)

My bad Wrong thread 😁


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## Den (11 mo ago)

The sleeve is just a cover does not come in contact


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I got lost quite a while ago but glad my ancient thread generates interest.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Den said:


> The sleeve is just a cover does not come in contact


The bigger concern is not whether the sleeve comes in contact with the halyard. The friction multiplier is whether the halyard comes in contact with and is deflected by the sheaves. 

Jeff


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## Den (11 mo ago)

To the proper topic, doh. Anytime you weld T6 aluminum you reduce the area strength by as much as 40%
I spend many years selling 45 foot aluminum street lighting poles. No welds the base was mechanically attached to maintain strength it’s reason for being. 
I’ve never priced a mast but I’ve watched a couple being built. The actual extrusion with a decent margin $450.00. If I could replace the mast rather than welded patches i would. 
I think we should look through our boat lockers and find him a 2 speed electric in the mean time.


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