# using 3M marine premium filler



## muskoka.sailor (Jul 28, 2011)

anybody used 3M marine filler from Canadian tire? I need to fill some rivet and old hardware holes on the deck of my DS20 and wondered if that would be approriate. Maybe I should use a better quality filler/resin?


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Darn fine stuff. I used it below waterline. Its under 5 coats barrier and 4 coats bottom though.
On deck I defer to the experts


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

My go to for this type of stuff is West Systems resin, and silica balloons as a thickner. I don't know anything about the 3M stuff, but I know the west systems will work.


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## fiberglass1 (Nov 16, 2009)

3M Premium is a vinylester based product and needs to be catalyzed accurately to get optimal results. In small quantities this is next to impossible. When the mix is wrong you can get incomplete cures and/or excessive shrinking over time. Why not go with an epoxy mix, like Stumble mentions? Cheaper, better bond, more accurate mix (with pumps) and very little shrinkage.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

If the 3M is vinelester I really wouldn't recommend it. Vinelester has a bad habit of refusing to bond to things unless the prep work is done perfectly. This is difficult enough for new parts, but is next to impossible for things that have already been cured.

Get a small package of epoxy. It lasts forever and is just too useful around boats not to have.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

MarineTex for me. It comes in a white version which is great for filling holes on deck.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Mark,

MarineTex is a very low quality, very high priced two part epoxy. West systems plus filler plus dye will do the same job at a fraction of the price, and a whole lot more as well.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

You're the first person I've heard say it's low quality. Which of it's properties is below par then?

If I want to repair a couple of screw holes, it is much cheaper and more convenient than mixing West Systems epoxy, hardener, filler, and dye.

On the other hand if I was doing a more major repair involving fibreglass I'd mix up some of my West Systems.

Horses for courses.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

...........................West systems 205 vs Marine Tex

Compression yield. 11,400psi...........8,700psi
Tensile strength.......7,900psi.......... 4,000psi
Cost.......................$40/qt.............$120/qt. (the difference gets worse as the quantities get smaller)

Plus you can control the thickness of West, it can be put into syringes to inject in small holes, change the fillers to make everything from faring compound to structual glue.

Sorry for all the periods, I needed them to get things to line up right.


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## muskoka.sailor (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the comments. I've done a little research and you guys are absolutely right, West Sytems is by far one of the best, and a little cheaper than that 3M stuff I was considering. I'll be picking some West System products up for sure....


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Next time I need to make a repair I'll try my WS 205. I've been using that for bigger repairs and the MarineTex for small holes. Next time I'll try the 205 though if it's that much stronger. Perfect timing, as the MarineTex just ran out, while I've got two big bottles of 205 left.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

muskoka, watch out! West epoxy is highly addictive. If you are not careful, you will find yourself building dinghies, davits, tables....


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I would add that while I like West Systems, there are other suppliers for high quality epoxy available at cheaper prices. The primary advantage of West Systems is availability, and the number of hardeners, thickeners, and tools all confirmed to work well together. But West Systems is not the cheapest.

For amounts less than a gallon it probably isn't worth worrying about, but if you are building a dinghy, some of the other manufacturers make high quality alternatives at lower costs.


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## muskoka.sailor (Jul 28, 2011)

Haha bljones! I was told by a clerk at west marine it's highly user friendly. First time ever using epoxy and doing fiberglass work, so....that's good!


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Stumble said:


> ...........................West systems 205 vs Marine Tex
> 
> Compression yield. 11,400psi.".........8,700psi
> Tensile strength.......7,900psi.......... 4,000psi
> ...


For what it's worth marine tex markets itself as being flexible and targeted at hull repair. I have no idea how effective it is at this but that would be a consideration for some applications.

And yes, simply being white can save some time if your filling holes in your white deck.


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

I find Marine Tex or even JB Weld is good for little patch jobs when mixing up a batch of West takes more time than slopping a little Marine Tex in the hole.
One piece of advice with the West system-- don't try to save a few bucks by not buying the pumps.
The pumps make measuring (very critical with epoxies) easy and mess-free and allow you to mix small as well as large amounts accurately. You'll save more money buying the pumps than you will when you throw away mis-mixed batches.
I use JB Kwik to cover the bottom hole when filling thru deck holes with epoxy to protect the coring- works better than tape to keep the epoxy mix from running thru the bottom hole and dries in 15 minutes so it doesn't slow down the process.


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## fiberglass1 (Nov 16, 2009)

msmith makes a very good point about the pumps. 3MPremium, Marine Tex, and all the other "box store" stuff is only as good as the mix ratio, which is extremely difficult to control in small quantities. WEST, or any of the other pump based mixes are right on every time. And once you're familiar with how much you can do around the house, on the car, fixing the chicken coup, the overall versatility of epoxies, you'll always have some around. And..... you can gel coat over WEST with the correct procedure..... don't do it with Marine Tex.


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## mbsl98 (Sep 10, 2010)

My new favorite friend for filling holes and all sorts of jobs needing small quantities of epoxy is the West Six10 in a cartridge. Just squeeze the bit you want and it comes out pre-mixed and ready to apply, while the rest of the tube stays unmixed and ready to put back on the shelf for an indefinite time. They come as a cartridge with a mixing nozzle that is not reusable, and inside the cartridge there are two separate chambers. The nozzles are also sold in separate packs for around a buck a piece. The nozzle is a fancy little mixer that forces the two parts to mix well on the way out. If you want just a small amount and don't need a nozzle to get it where you want it, you can squeeze out the right amounts of both parts onto a piece of scrap and just mix it with a finger, etc. so not wasting a nozzle.It is real West Sytem stuff, but I'd be interested t hear if folks have concerns with it, now that I have used it a dozen times. see it at West Marine's link:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50218&subdeptNum=50219&classNum=50225


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I haven't used the six10, but it looks like an interesting product. Personally I like being able to control the thickness but it does look like it would make fillets a lot easier.

The concern I would have with hole filling though, is that ideally you use a pretty runny epoxy. So that it will flow to fill any gouges or depressions. The thinner it is, the better the flow, and the thinner it will remain as localized wood absorbes some of the epoxy. Thick epoxy tends to just plug the bottom and the top, without really filling all the small gaps. At least unless you put it under vaccume, or preassure, which for small holes is pretty crazy. 

I do like Msmith's idea of using JB weld to plug the bottom holes instead of tape. I haven't seen that done before, but I think I am going to have to try it the next time I need to bed winches or hardware down.


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## muskoka.sailor (Jul 28, 2011)

I confess I did not buy the pumps the first time I went to West Marine.....Had to go back and get them, 110 km away the next weekend after I learned what a fool I was for not spending 16 bucks on them.....garrr! Oh well, got them now!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

To quote hans and franz- "listen to me now, but pay attention to me later..."


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Sorry for the drive, but those pumps are the trick to the whole system 

The upside is they can be swapped from can to can, so you only need to buy a 205 pump once, and each hardner pump once. I tend to keep the slow, and a fast harder on hand so I can switch which hardner based upon how patient I am feeling. 

Just remember the process... Resin then hardner, mix well, then thickener, then coloring.


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