# Self employment in the boating world



## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

Hi. I'm curious if anyone has any experience working for themselves in the boat world. I want to find ways I can still make a decent living while I transition to living aboard, and maybe something I can do wherever I end up in the world. I can fix and repair just about anything and I'm not afraid of hard work. Just trying to brainstorm. Go! 🙂


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You can work over the Internet, wherever you can find access to it. However, you need to get a work permit to be employed anywhere outside your native country/union. That can be very difficult.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

A delivery captain is usually self-employed and rarely has trouble with local government work regulations. However, this does require some considerable sailing experience and leaving your boat when you are away on delivery.
Any time you are in a foreign country and desire to work there, as Minne said, you will be required to secure work permits, even if you are just helping other boaters on their boats. There are almost always local citizens to do that sort of work, so the consequences of taking their jobs can be quite severe. Some do make a living from the internet, but if one is not an internet entrepreneur before one sets sail, it's unlikely a serious income could be derived for some time, at least. 
Some write books and some do video logs, but I don't have any idea if either can actually support a cruiser.
Chartering is hardly a consistent income and it takes a lot of local knowledge, a nice well kept and comfortable boat that people are going to want to pay money to sail aboard, a really terrific cook and the understanding that there are no, none, zilch, nada weather windows when you are a charter boat. You are going to beat your boat up from time to time if you go into the charter business.
All in all, it is best if you have your finances in place before you leave and have a regular monthly income. I bought an annuity and I suppose some have figured out other financial instruments that allow them the freedom to cruise on a moderate monthly income.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

You may be underestimating just how much time you will be spending fixing and repairing your own boat.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Other than internet dependent activities the people I know doing this are semi retired from highly skilled occupations. Forensic accountants, engineers, trade and acquisition lawyers, medical or industrial R &D. Things like that. Interestly all are couples with both being skilled. Routine is one leaves to consult or with one staying with the boat going under a maintain/survalence contract. The boat may wander around and be left in different locales as one or both leaves to work for a limited time. They say biggest benefit is they are 100% in work mode or 100% in cruising mode. They say doing any other way you might as well be working full time.


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the responses. I had wondered about working over the internet, and thought about it in the past. Im not really sure how or what I could do to sustain myself from doing that. Some people out there are making pretty good money vlogging and such, but I don't see that being reliable until there is a large following or people donating on patreon etc. 

As far as being a delivery captain, that would be a possible idea. Currently though my sailing skills would not allow me to do that. In the future though I could see that. Although, once I am at the point I would feel comfortable delivering someones boat, I would probably want to just sail my own boat. Ive looked into it before though, and it seems like it could be a good money maker at 5-15k for a delivery. Are there any sort of licensing requirements to do such a thing?


My current occupation(animal research) is not something that I can do anywhere except exclusively at the facility I report to daily. As much as I like my career, it is not fulfilling and really holds me back from being able to do much of anything other than work and sleep. In the past I was a diesel mechanic, and I thought maybe that would be useful to boaters for diagnosing and repairing their engines. Or hull cleaning as a service. Hull cleaning seems like a good way to make a little money, but probably not a ton? Id be willing to do it though, I already have a lot of scuba equipment.

I am close to being at the point where I could have a steady enough income from investments to live on, but its hard to really know how much cash will be needed on a monthly basis. I could go right now and probably be ok, but I dont want to shoot myself in the foot and run out of money or anything after a few years.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I have a good friend, and fellow forum member that is a marine mechanic and delivery captain that lives on his houseboat in South Carolina. He also owns a 32-foot homemade sailboat that made several Atlantic crossings and has a full machine shop onboard, including a milling machine, 6-foot metal lathe, drill press, welder, etc... He can machine parts that are no longer available, which is a big plus for him. Between his mechanical work and deliveries, he is busy 7 days a week. He is still relatively young, early 50s and salting away as much money as possible so he can eventually retire and go sailing and fishing just for the fun of it. 

The last 30 years of my working life I was gainfully employed as a musician/singer/entertainer, which was the best job I ever had. I could work just about anywhere in the US, though I could have easily found employment in other nations, but the work permit fees for entertainers is insanely high. Unlike many entertainers, I did this full time, often 7 to 9 jobs a week, all holidays, summer and winter. 

Good luck in your quest,

Gary


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

Now that's pretty cool. I have essentially a full shop worth of tools, I didn't think I would have room to bring that much aboard though. Where does your friend store everything? That sounds really practical as a way to make money while traveling. I would want to bring as many tools as I could anyway. I'm sure everywhere has a few boats in need of a little work. I'd love to see some pictures of that boat if you had some 🙂


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Earning a decent income takes time. However your income needs may go way down if you live off the grid on a sailboat. Work that you produce and then convey using email is an option. You could write for a magazine... your could even write your own book if you can get a proposal accepted by a publisher. You can do things like graphic design on a PC... CAD drafting. If you do the mechanic thing you need to get the word out somehow and likely so doing will get noticed by the local authorities faster than it does by boaters sailing in with mechanical problems. And these sorts of jobs make demands on your time. Diver scrubbing bottoms? Day trader? With a permit you could work at a local business such as a restaurant, bar or for a local marine business. Unless you job thrives when you are off the grid living on a boat... this is a steep hill to climb. The go fund me, vlogging approach seems a good match for this but the market is getting saturated and most sailors are not buying they are living what vloggers are selling.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Brandon Davis said:


> Now that's pretty cool. I have essentially a full shop worth of tools, I didn't think I would have room to bring that much aboard though. Where does your friend store everything? That sounds really practical as a way to make money while traveling. ...


I know him as well. He is a retired ME and built his boat around his tools. There is very little actual living space.

In a situation like his, you have to be wary of pissing off the locals by coming in and taking away jobs. He has a niche in machining and can do it on the spot. Even in my home port where there are lots of boat services, that's something that has to be done outside of the community.

Good luck with your research.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Brandon, it was only him and his pet cat aboard the boat, therefore, he had just a small berthing area and very small galley. After he got married, he moved aboard his wife's 50-foot house boat, then added a bit more machinery to the sailboat. He is now thinking about adding a room to the back end of the houseboat and moving his machinery there, then selling the sailboat.

One thing he discovered was that if he were going to work on someone's boat in a marina, many of the marinas wanted 10 percent of the proceeds - which I consider a real rip-off. Many of the best mechanics I know will not work in marinas that charge this ridiculous fee. Something to consider. 

Good luck,

Gary


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

As a former ex-pat and currently a part-time one - working officially in another country can be an issue without the right visa - also would not try to pimp yourself out to do work easily done by locals - at the local wage - they won't take too kindly - my advise - take a look at whats new in boating - its all computer driven ( much like cars) get to know how to fix integrated electronics - how to trouble shoot networks - target more powerboats - sail-boaters are generally too cheap - the money to be made is in the high end boats - what happens when someones integrated entertainment system breaks down on his Mega 88 and all the captains young amigas are disappointed his music machine will be down for the big party that night - the locals may not be able to fix the network like they fix a diesel.


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Brandon Davis said:


> Now that's pretty cool. I have essentially a full shop worth of tools, I didn't think I would have room to bring that much aboard though. Where does your friend store everything? That sounds really practical as a way to make money while traveling. I would want to bring as many tools as I could anyway. I'm sure everywhere has a few boats in need of a little work. I'd love to see some pictures of that boat if you had some 🙂


There are DIY guys doing pretty will on youtube and patreon.com. I'd be tempted to pay a buck or 2 a month for good videos of repairs on a sailboat


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Brandon Davis said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses. I had wondered about working over the internet, and thought about it in the past. Im not really sure how or what I could do to sustain myself from doing that. Some people out there are making pretty good money vlogging and such, but I don't see that being reliable until there is a large following or people donating on patreon etc.
> 
> As far as being a delivery captain, that would be a possible idea. Currently though my sailing skills would not allow me to do that. In the future though I could see that. Although, once I am at the point I would feel comfortable delivering someones boat, I would probably want to just sail my own boat. Ive looked into it before though, and it seems like it could be a good money maker at 5-15k for a delivery. Are there any sort of licensing requirements to do such a thing?
> 
> ...


You don't need a license, but it helps.

Pleasure yacht deliveries often don't require any license at all, but as soon as their is any commercial element to the delivery, licensing and inspection gets more complicated and the pay generally gets better too.

The licensing system you chose to go with will depend on your nationality as well as where you hope to work.

I haven't seen sailing instruction mentioned, but it seems like a popular second career for retired folks.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

JoCoSailor said:


> There are DIY guys doing pretty will on youtube and patreon.com. I'd be tempted to pay a buck or 2 a month for good videos of repairs on a sailboat


Here is your chance to put your money to good use.

https://www.boatworkstoday.com/

This guy makes great videos on boat repairs. He just announced this week his intention to commit full time to making these videos. Before this he was fixing others people's boats and making videos, working 70+ hours/week.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Brandon Davis said:


> I am close to being at the point where I could have a steady enough income from investments to live on, but its hard to really know how much cash will be needed on a monthly basis. I could go right now and probably be ok, but I dont want to shoot myself in the foot and run out of money or anything after a few years.


There is a guy here that posts his monthly budget in a 40 foot boat. He averages about $3k/month in expenses, significantly cheaper than it cost me to live on land.

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gene...0-month-24-expenses-cruising-living-boat.html


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

I figured that he must have cleared out just about everything to make room for all the tools. That is still pretty cool though. 

As for working in other countries without a visa, it seems a bit ironic considering the situation here(California).

Doing boat deliveries does seem like a great way to make a living. Sailing, traveling, and getting paid to do it. Whats not to love? It does seem like deliveries might burn me out on doing something I love though.

I appreciate the input from everyone. It is nice to see and hear other peoples perspectives on things.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Brandon Davis said:


> ...Doing boat deliveries does seem like a great way to make a living. Sailing, traveling, and getting paid to do it. Whats not to love? It does seem like deliveries might burn me out on doing something I love though...


You need to talk to more delivery captains. (I'm licensed, but have close to zero direct experience. But I've talked to real captains.) A significant number of delivery boats (perhaps a majority) are in poor shape and not safe for the journey planned. Of course, you don't find this out until you show up, because the new owner has told you it's "bristol". You'll find yourself confronted with giving up the job and paying for a flight back home (on short notice, so $$$$, and what it will do to your reputation as a "quitter"), spending days/weeks doing/coordinating the needed repairs at the site, or risking your life and hoping for the best. You may have TowBoat insurance, but you have to pay for the more expensive professional version because the recreational insurance is only good when the owner is present on the boat. And if you're offshore, a tow boat may be out of reach. And don't forget professional liability insurance, etc.

Previously you said your sailing skills needed improving. But recognize that delivering sailboats is a small part of the market. There are lots of powerboats out there to deliver. If you get a captain's license, you'll note that sailing skills are not even covered in the training. 95% of the OUPV and Master students want to run fishing charters, and in my experience many of those openly worried about how they were going to pass the drug screen.


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

TakeFive said:


> You need to talk to more delivery captains. (I'm licensed, but have close to zero direct experience. But I've talked to real captains.) A significant number of delivery boats (perhaps a majority) are in poor shape and not safe for the journey planned. Of course, you don't find this out until you show up, because the new owner has told you it's "bristol". You'll find yourself confronted with giving up the job and paying for a flight back home (on short notice, so $$$$, and what it will do to your reputation as a "quitter"), spending days/weeks doing/coordinating the needed repairs at the site, or risking your life and hoping for the best. You may have TowBoat insurance, but you have to pay for the more expensive professional version because the recreational insurance is only good when the owner is present on the boat. And if you're offshore, a tow boat may be out of reach. And don't forget professional liability insurance, etc.
> 
> Previously you said your sailing skills needed improving. But recognize that delivering sailboats is a small part of the market. There are lots of powerboats out there to deliver. If you get a captain's license, you'll note that sailing skills are not even covered in the training. 95% of the OUPV and Master students want to run fishing charters, and in my experience many of those openly worried about how they were going to pass the drug screen.


Good points. Were you recently licensed? Just curious if there was a reason you have not dove in to any deliveries.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I am sure there are lots of different ways to approach the delivery thing. There was a while when deliveries accounted for around maybe 10% of my annual income. It was definitely mostly power boats, sailboats were uncommon for me.

I didn't deal with unknown owners at all. I dealt with maybe 4 or 5 known charter companies. Sure, there were times when you had to light a bit of a fire to get some gear and had to push back on weather, but if you avoid dealing directly with pleasure craft owners, it cuts down on the BS mentioned above.

I often teamed up with a couple of guys that I knew I could count on. My brother was my partner and would ride as engineer, I had a buddy that sometimes rode as deck hand and another skipper I worked with if the vessels tonnage exceeded the limit on my license.

I kept a fairly tight leash on the unknowns. Wouldn't take a job if there were too many unknowns, wasn't worth it to me.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> .....don't forget professional liability insurance, etc.......


Of the several delivery Captains I know, none carry any professional insurance. It shocked me, when I first learned of it. One does have the owner sign a contract, acknowledging this fact and confirm the owner has coverage. The rest take their chances and I think that's common. Wrong, but common.

All but one guy I know, only do deliveries to supplement income, not to make a living. It's a great way to put a few more bucks in the can, add to one's retirement or raise play money. It's a very tough way to make a living and pay all your bills with it.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Brandon Davis said:


> Good points. Were you recently licensed? Just curious if there was a reason you have not dove in to any deliveries.


I was licensed 18 months ago. Don't assume that I haven't done any deliveries.

I got the license because I had some training money from a severance package that I had to spend fast before a deadline, and there's no faster way to spend money than boat stuff. Diesel repair, OUPV, Master, endorsements, and a week of ASA106 in the Caribbean, all paid for by my former employer. (Yoohoo!!!!) They even offered to pay for scuba certification, but I opted for the ASA106 instead, and that consumed my training budget. The people in HR were THRILLED to hear of someone spending the money on something so FUN!!!

I found another great day gig real fast, and I'm having fun with that, so the captain license isn't getting much use. Maybe later, though after I'm done working full time I'd likely do part time consulting in my field of specialty instead.


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

Arcb said:


> HiAside fromas a freelance skipper/delivery skipper I did some marine consulting for a few years. Mostly writing so I could do it on board/internet.
> 
> I wrote safety and security procedure manuals for charter operators and small passenger operators as well as wrote and delivered training material.
> 
> Although I could do most (80%) of my work from the boat web, the reality is you have to show up for meetings and physically be on clients boats and deliver training in person. Plus, I worked a solid 40 hours a week, so although it was consistent with a live aboard lifestyle, it wasn't consistent with a constantly travelings lifestyle. I needed a base of operations and generally had to keep my boat within a couple hundred miles of that base.


This sounds very logical and realistic.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

The OP says he can fix just about anything. In my experience, those types of people can make good money anywhere in the U.S. It doesn't have to be literally on a boat. In my marina, everyone makes money in the outside world, except for some scrappy liveaboard guys and one liveaboard couple. 


The scrappy liveaboard guys seems to be always on their phones, and wasting as much time as they possibly can. I don't mind them always hanging around, but it seems to me that they are young and strong and could just make money in construction or something else nearby and come back to the marina at night. The couple are in a really old boat and they just seem determined to be off the grid and living cheaply with solar and bicycles. They never sail. And that's cool with me. I like being in a funky crazy marina with a bit of Margaritaville thrown in. 


To take a good mechanic/ worker and recommend him become a videoblogger seems unrealistic. One thing different about the sailing videobloggers is that to succeed they really need a hot girl. That's not the case with other types of channels such as motorcycling. If the idea is to be under the radar in a foreign country, sure... internet might help. But in the US, just pick up a hammer or a wrench and do something with your abilities and make $20/ hr and go back to the boat afterwards. If you really want to be involved in the sailboat scene and you are at a big year round sailing destination, then - mechanic away.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sal Paradise said:


> .....One thing different about the sailing videobloggers is that to succeed they really need a hot girl.....


I'm not convinced, just as we know it's not part of the recipe in other genres. It's true that the top few have attractive crew, but they were also the very earliest adopters, by luck. Neither SLV nor Delos saw this coming, they stumbled into the opportunity and, when they recognized it, they ran with it.

Sex always helps sell, but I think there is more to it and that's not the reason for success in the sailing genre. It's a niche market and the early adopters took most of it, making it hard for others to break in. Some others are indeed trying to use sexual innuendo to get a foothold.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

TakeFive said:


> The people in HR were THRILLED to hear of someone spending the money on something so FUN!!!.


30 years ago I worked for Patagonia clothing. They had a employee education allowance. People were taking accounting or language classes and the like. The company had a line of sailing gear. I proposed they pay for my ASA 103/104 class and they approved.

It was psyched at the time but not nearly as impressive as all the free education you got.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> All but one guy I know, only do deliveries to supplement income, not to make a living. It's a great way to put a few more bucks in the can, add to one's retirement or raise play money. It's a very tough way to make a living and pay all your bills with it.


This has been very much my experience as well. From what I have seen, deliveries are very seasonal in nature. All but one of my deliveries that I can think of were taking boats to yards for upgrades or repairs early or late season. Mostly in cold weather.

The one exception was getting a boat back to its home port after the skipper had been picked up on drug charges and in reality the first mate sailed her back and I was just there for my license (as the mates license didnt cover the voyage).


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Something else I thought of for deliveries and similar. One need not necessarily be the skipper or even much of a sailor to be of value. A good mechanic is often a very welcome member of a boat crew and in my experience can be fairly well paid as well.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

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Arcb said:


> Something else I thought of for deliveries and similar. One need not necessarily be the skipper or even much of a sailor to be of value. A good mechanic is often a very welcome member of a boat crew and in my experience can be fairly well paid as well.


Mechanical, elec....have tools, will travel.
For sure.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Most cruisers I know can do basic electrical, diesel, plumbing and carpentry. It's HVAC that is the shortcoming and I think that equipment can be easily carried aboard. No doubt a cruiser will pay for cold or frozen food and cold beer. Still, I don't think one can make a living doing so in a foreign country. You'd be in high demand on Chagos.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> Most cruisers I know can do basic electrical, diesel, plumbing and carpentry....


That has been my experience. And many of them hate to part with money, for the same reason the OP wants to make some. The other problem is the shear VOLUME of tools, materials, and parts required for any paying job.

And if the local diesel mechanics get wind, you better hoist sail fast. Buying parts more than once or twice will get a little suspicious.

I've also learned that writing about repairs and projects is more time consuming than it sounds. Not only is there the writing and editing time, the documentation and photography can be a real drag. Any job takes 3 times as long, because you have to pretty up the background, tend to lighting, and stop at critical moments. Often you need to find a helper just for the photos. Sometimes you get to do things twice because the photos are poor. Argh.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

pdqaltair said:


> Sometimes you get to do things twice because the photos are poor. Argh.


At least you have an excuse for having to do something twice...

Mark


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

At this stage of life, or what little life I have left, I really don't give a damned what repairs cost. I can no longer do most of them, so if someone that can is willing to crawl into those cramped spaces to make the repairs, I'll be more than happy to pay them. 

Good luck in your endeavors,

Gary


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

Thanks for the responses everyone. Ive been out of town and didn't have a chance to check on here for a while. I'd have to agree the hot girl thing will help the videoblog take off. There are lots of them out there now, and only a few real big ones, so I think the first movers on the scene were the ones able to really make it pay. I have considered trying to start the video blog, but its really just not me. I have some cameras and stuff but I rarely use them. The idea seems awesome, but also I am very unphotogenic, haha.


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## Brandon Davis (Jul 19, 2015)

Sal Paradise said:


> The OP says he can fix just about anything. In my experience, those types of people can make good money anywhere in the U.S. It doesn't have to be literally on a boat. In my marina, everyone makes money in the outside world, except for some scrappy liveaboard guys and one liveaboard couple.
> 
> The scrappy liveaboard guys seems to be always on their phones, and wasting as much time as they possibly can. I don't mind them always hanging around, but it seems to me that they are young and strong and could just make money in construction or something else nearby and come back to the marina at night. The couple are in a really old boat and they just seem determined to be off the grid and living cheaply with solar and bicycles. They never sail. And that's cool with me. I like being in a funky crazy marina with a bit of Margaritaville thrown in.
> 
> To take a good mechanic/ worker and recommend him become a videoblogger seems unrealistic. One thing different about the sailing videobloggers is that to succeed they really need a hot girl. That's not the case with other types of channels such as motorcycling. If the idea is to be under the radar in a foreign country, sure... internet might help. But in the US, just pick up a hammer or a wrench and do something with your abilities and make $20/ hr and go back to the boat afterwards. If you really want to be involved in the sailboat scene and you are at a big year round sailing destination, then - mechanic away.


You are right. I could probably make money anywhere if I really needed to. Ideally I could do it while travelling. That's the real goal for me. It seems to be a tough one. I might just have to fall back to dividend investing or something similar which has worked out well in the past. I could probably become one of your scrappy liveaboard people too and just hang out on my phone all day and drink margaritas. That doesnt sound half bad


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