# westsail and tayana



## sdwyer (Jun 20, 2002)

Hi everyone, I have been doing a lot of shopping around at different web sight, looking for westsails and tayanas. I have been looking at the westsail 32''s and the tayana 37''s. I know that these boats are both renouned world cruisers and that is the type of sailing i will be doing. The ones in my price range are mid to late 70 ''s model westsails and late 70''s to early 80''s tayanas. My price range is 50-60-thousand dollars. If any one could provide info, or comments or personal thoughts on these boats i would appreciate it!


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## thomasstone (Dec 21, 2001)

Excellent choices. I am on the same hunt for the same boats. I was planning on picking up a West this year,but decided I will keep my current boat for a couple more years.(bought a house ,etc.)I have seen plenty of WS in your price range pretty much outfitted for extended cruising(wind vanes,solar panels,etc.)Have you seen Bud Taplins site?I will probally go for the Tayana since I am waiting about two more years to purchase my new boat. I have seen a couple of Tayanas in that range but were in poor shape, although I met a guy a couple of months ago that had scored a Tayana for 50 k in excellent shape and who is since long gone on an extended cruise.Most of the Tayanas I have looked at have been in the 80k and up range.I am sure their are more deals out there , but for your price range you are better off with the WS.-thomas


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

To a great extent the Westsail 32''s and the Tayana 37''s "are both renouned world cruisers" of another era. They represent a snapshot of the ideal distance cruiser of the 1970''s. A lot has happened in yacht design since the 1970''s. That said, if you intend to sail in higher wind venues and speed is not important to you, and given your price range, these are reasonable choices. 

In almost all ways the Tayana 37 is a more versatile boat and all things being equal would be far an away a better choice. Of course in real life, all things are not necessarily going to be equal. 

The Tayana 37 at virtually the same displacement and beam as the Westsail 32, but with a snignificantly longer sailing length and taller rig should have a more comfortable motion is all conditions. With a significantly larger SA/D (14.4 vs 19.7), more ballast to displacement and a longer waterline length, the Tayana will sail faster and better in a much wider range of conditions. Obviously the Tayana offers a significantly larger interior and cockpit. 

One downside to both of these boats are that they were built with a very wide range of interior layouts and some were clearly optimized for living aboard and so lack many important features that are important for offshore cruising. You will want to find one that has been optimized for offshore cruising since you say that is what you will be doing.

Both boats (if found in your price range) are getting up in years and so the standing and running rigging is nearing the end of its useful lifespans. Engines are coming up on a rebuild and original sails would be pretty well shot. 

The Tayana''s typically have teak decks and in conversations with folks who have looked at older Tayana 37''s this can be a serious problem once water penetrates the glass over wood deck structure below. A detailed durvey by someone familiar with this type of problem is important as a new deck can run tens of thousands of dollars if the substructure is shot. Early Tayanas had black iron tanks and these have a comparatively short lifespan and may be ready for replacement. The early Tayanas had wooden spars and if not exceptionally well maintained these can be at the end of their useful lifespan.

Many of the Westsails were owner completed. The quality of the level of finish and the interior layouts vaires extremely widely. Deck hardware varies from way oversized to undersized dinghy hardware which on a boat of this sheer weight is like using jewelry hardware. Rudders at they are wood and are often hung on some cobled up set of pintles and gudgeons and are exposed to a lot of load as these boats can develop some very serious weather helm. 

Good hunting,
Jeff


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## sdwyer (Jun 20, 2002)

Thank you both for your insight I appreciate it. So would you say for my price range these would be good buys or is there other models out their that are newer and have the same qualities that i have missed? Or would i look at spending less and using the money left to fix up and outfit for offshore use? thank you -steve


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Judging from the brief description of your goals, your budget pretty much confines you to boats from the 1970''s perhaps with limityed examples into the very early 1980''s. Your taste seems to be toward heavy cruising types. With that in mind here are a couple additional posibilities:

Allied Princess 36:

Allied Seawind and Seawind II: The 30 foot Seawind was the first fiberglass boat to do a circumnavigate the world. Based on the H-28 these are quintessential offshore boats of their era. The 32 foot Seawind II was an updated and different design. 

Atkins Ingrids 38'';
These were a bigger version of the ''Eric'' the design on which the Westsail was based. These boats have been constructed by home builders and professionals alike (Alajuela being the best known but more expensive than your budget version.) These are wonderful boats of the type that seems to catch your imagination. 

Bristol 34

Camper & Nicholson 35 (Nicholson 35) and Camper Nicholson 32: Very venerable distance cruisers. 

Choey Lee Bermuda (or Offshore)30: these are an updated version of the H-28 and a solid old design. 

CSY 37''s (and CSY33s): Heavily constructed and nicely laid out boats that were originally intended for the charter trade but were a cult boat sold to private owners as well.

Halberg-Rassy Rasmus 35, 

Hughes Northstar 40 footers. These vary in name and price but are very nicely done boats.

Niagara 35:
These are nicely constructed Ellis designed, Hunterhoeller built distance cruisers. They have a bit of a wierd interior layout but one that makes sence in many ways.

Pearson 365 

Ontario 32: Well built boats that I believe began as the Niagara 32.

Rafiki 37''s: These are a slightly updated version of the Ingrids. 

I''m out of time,
good luck,
Jeff


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## Nereus32 (Jun 23, 2002)

I can''t speak of the Tayana, but as an owner of a Westsail 32, I can certainly speak in favor of my boat. It is tough, can take abuse, and is forgiving to amatures like my wife and I. We bought it for these reasons:


Big enough for my wife and I, yet small enough to single-hand easily.

The price was right.

It is over built and tought as nails - 1 inch of fiberglass in the keel! Find that in a newer boat.

Great support group - the Westsail Owners Association is very active and Bud Taplin, with his WorldCruiser Yacht Co. supplies any replacement part you need at reasonable prices. Not bad for a boat that''s been out of production for nearly 20 years.


In response to Jeff_H, Westsails don''t have wooden rudders and have solid pintles/goudgens and weather helm is greatly reduced by standing these boats up and sailing them with proper sail configurations.

I also wouldn''t shy away from a Westsail just because it was owner built. Westsail had good owner support and I have seen some beautiful kit boats. Many owners take a great deal of pride in their boats and some are better than others, so judge each on a boat by boat basis. For what you are looking to spend, you should be able to find a Westsail ready to go.


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## Konacoffee2 (Jul 16, 2002)

We were one of the original Westsail 32 kit builders finishing hull #163, or was it 136, in ''74-75. We sailed California, French Polynesia and ended up in Kona in ''77. The second owners did a lot more modifications and refurbishment and took the boat to Australia and most of the South Pacific Islands in the early ''90s. It''s now back in Kona and on its 4th owner. Its being used in what looks like a very successful day sailing operation. 

We lived aboard as we built and ended up with a modified dinette layout that was way better than the stock factory boats. We took advantage of every little nook and cranny to add a lot more usuable storage with a much nicer finish than the factory. We saw quite a number of boats that were under construction by their owners including Ference Mate''s. Most were very well finished though some were quite eccentric in their layouts. The Mate''s boat had an unusable galley in a seaway, for instance. It was a tribute to the finish carpenters that built the boat, however. Anyway, don''t shy away from a custom built Westsail, most were built with more thought, skill, and attention to detail than the factory boats. Do look carefully at how the layout works, however. If they strayed too far from the stock layout, they may not be practical for either cruising or living aboard.

Carefully the hulls of W32''s built after ''75 or so. Westsail was always in deep financial difficulty and did some pretty weird things when the vendors were hounding them for money. The early boats were laid up by Crystaliner, numbers under 300 or so, and were all very well done. Westsail started doing its own lay up later on and had a few boats that were screwed up. Don''t know if any of these boats are still out there. All lead ballast or the extra lead ballast and punchings option are good to have. The extra weight down low improves their sail carrying ability. I''ve seen at least one factory boat that had to have been way light on ballast as it floated 6 inches or more above its lines. Any problems should have made their presence very obvious by now, so a decent surveyor should pick up on any problems. Basically, severe negligence during construction not withstanding, the W32''s are so overbuilt they''ll sink anything, including California, that they run into.

With their 20,000# plus displacement and wide beam carried well forward and aft, they have the interior volume of a 40'' boat. Plenty of room for a couple to live on and cruise. When we moved off the boat after 4 years, the kitchen in our first house would not hold the galley equipment and supplies we carried off the boat. 

Even though the W32 has the nick name of the ''Wetsnail'', ours was a very fast boat. We averaged 120nm a day, through the water, for close to 10,000 miles. Those were sailing miles as we had less than 350 hours on the engine, mostly for battery charging, when we sold the boat after 10 years. We knew of no other boat within 10'' of her waterline that had a better average. One thing a W32 won''t do is beat into a chop, however. You simply cannot pinch these boats up. Crack off a bit and get boat speed up to 4 knots or more and they will sail the pants off most other boats in more than 10 knots of wind. If you are dumb enough to want to go hard on the wind, get in the habit of motor sailing. We could point up with the best IOR racer with the engine ticking over just above idle. From a close to a broad reach, there are very few boats that will stay with a W32. On one trip down from San Francisco to Newport Beach, we averaged over 140 nm a day with a best days run of 187nm. On a reach into Hawaii on the trip from the Marquesas, we covered 1,000 nm in 6 days. Of course, the first 1,000 miles took 12 days with light and fluky winds and sailing around in circles for a day in the ITC. 

The boats carry a pretty strong weather helm when they''ve got a bone in their teeth. We spent most of our time at sea with a single reef in the main and a staysail and yankee. The slot between the two headsails was very important as boat speed suffered when we were forced to drop the Yankee and sail under staysail and reefed main, alone. A roller furling Yankee, which we didn''t have, would probably allow you to balance out the foretriangle under all but the most severe conditions, however. We also carried a high cut reacher/drifter off a Morgan 35 for light air and broad reaching under more lively conditions. These four sails were a more than adequate inventory to drive the boat under all but storm conditions. A modern cruising spinnaker/reacher and a real genoa would be a nice sail combination to carry if you didn''t mind an extra sail bag or two lying around. 

The W32 will not balance out and self steer except going to windward so a competent pendulum servo self steering vane is a must. Nick, our Aries vane, sailed the boat in all but ghosting conditions. Can''t say enough good things about Nick Franklin and the Aries. A monitor or other vane would probably work just as well if the boat you find doesn''t already have a vane. A one armed autopilot would have been nice for powering. Without one, it was an excuse not to turn the engine on. 

A W32 is easy for a single hander to maneuver. With my 4''10, 85 pound wife as crew, we sailed into and out of practically every anchorage and harbor that we came to. The only time I felt the least intimidated was when we got hit by a sudden 40knots rounding Point Conception with the Reacher and full main up. Let the main off, set the self steering vane for a close reach and fought the Reacher down. The reacher was a real handful as the wind was so strong, it would actually fully hoist the sail up the stay if I didn''t physically haul it down. Hauled up the staysail which was already hanked on after fighting the Reacher into its bag. Then went aft and double reefed the main and we were back under control. Of course, as soon as all this was done with great drama, the wind dropped to 5 knots never to come back again. 

We had a 2 cylinder Volvo MD2 engine that was the definition of simplicity. Easily hand cranked after the dynamo fell off, dead reliable and extremely economical at a becalmed 5 knots. It was all the powerplant we needed. For most people, it wasn''t enough power, though. Delivered two Westsails, one with the MD3 Volvo and the other with a Perkins 4-108. Both were much more maneuverable in reverse and more pleasant under power. The idiot owner of the Perkins powered W32 actually stopped the boat in its tracks when he lost control under full sail in an unexpected Santa Anna in Newport Harbor. The MD2 with a two bladed prop, told you I''m a sailor, was a bear in reverse. It Would not back to the left, if memory serves me right, with any rev''s on the engine. When going in reverse, the drill was to rev up the engine to build up some speed to get steerage, then drop the engine to idle and put the tiller hard over to turn. I ended up backing all the way out to the main channel from our slip at the marina more than once when the wind and tight surroundings wouldn''t let us turn the way we needed to.

As has been mentioned, most W32''s are no longer ingenue''s. Look for replacement of all the standing rigging unless they were rigged with Norseman or similar terminals. The bowsprits and boomkins are prone to rot if not looked after. Carefully inspect these. Stay away from the teak deck option. I personally saw one boat built without any caulk under the teak. Don''t know why anyone would want to put a 1,000+ screw holes into a perfectly water proof fiberglass deck, in any case. 

For the money, there is no faster, safer, comfortable, good looking cruising boat available. They are a downright steal at $50,000 with good equipment inventory. Replacement cost would probably be over $150,000 in todays dollars. The W32 is not a racing boat, however. If spinning on a dime, throwing up a spinnaker and surfing at 20 knots are your thing, you''ll hate a W32. The W32 is like driving a 300d Mercedes, not a 300sl gull wing.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
''Faerie'' now ''Honu''


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I know this is 2 full months after the fact, but I just had to respond to Peter Ogilvie''s letter. How fortunate you are to have this nice, substantial essay to work from - if you are contemplating a Westsail 32. I too, own a W 32 (hull # 724 - with excellent ''glass lay up). The Owner''s Association is indeed very active, and there is always someone with an answer to your questions and solutions to your problems. I went the route of buying a boat with much "cosmetic" work to do (funny - there is always structural stuff involved with cosmetic restoration - nature of a boat, I guess). We saved lots on the initial cost, will have about enough money in her to have bought one "ready to circumnavigate", but she''ll be exactly what we want - for around $50,000 after the dust settles. I''m happy.
Ed Pullen
S/V Kibitka, Winchester Bay, OR


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## sdwyer (Jun 20, 2002)

This message is to EDPULLEN if you check this again i was wondering if you were going to the Rendezvous this labor day weekend in oak harbor, washington? I live in washington and was thinking about going to check out the boats and would be interested in meeting and talking with you.
my email is above if you are let me know or post something up here.


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## sdwyer (Jun 20, 2002)

i wanted to thank you all for the insight you have had it has been very helpful. thank you very much. hopefully i will see some of the owners at the westsail rendezvous this weekend.


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## BuffaloWings (Oct 3, 2002)

There was a very nice article in Practical
Sailor a few years ago which probably best
sums up the difference between these two boats. It starts something like: ''Not
long after the Westsail 32 came lumbering onto the scene .... ''. It then proceeded to describe Perry innovative idea that a boat could be safe and fun to sail, even without a gale blowing.  But it really is hard to
beat a WetSnail for storage and comfort. But 
the owners I know do a lot of motoring. The Tayana 37, on the other hand, can even keep
old around the buoys racers happy.


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