# Freeing stuck valves, in water?



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Seems I saw a thread a while back on this, can't find it now. Seacocks haven't been maintained, or used much, frozen in the open position. Boat winters in water. Good ideas for freeing them up without damage?


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## drobarge (Mar 3, 2009)

I tried intently staring at them down in FL last spring and that really didn't do too much. So I can say with certainty that wont work.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Well

As i have broken off a few handles DONT fix anything your not prepared to have go worst case 










I in this far because of a small leak


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm not aware of a way to unstick a frozen "open" seacock safely, while remaining in the water. 

Somehow you need to get a rust/corrosion disolving solution into the valve, how you do this, without removing the attached hoses and clamps I don't know. Maybe someone else does? 

I would haul the boat even if it's for a short time, remove the hoses, loosen the valves, remove the stems, clean, lube and replace them. While you are at it, I'd check the hoses and replace the clamps.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Depends on which valves you have ...If you have these just loosen the nut opposite the Handel tap the tapered cones shaft lightly and she well free right up.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

If they are Maralon I wouldn't try much at all except the intense looking mentioned above .... since they are very cold and brittle now.
If they are bronze... I tried when I had a similar problem ..... some WD40 which may (if the shaft is frozen) or may not do any good from the inside, a bit of heat from an electric paint stripper gun, and some light tapping. Even that only got me limited movement which I fixed at next haul by spraying WD40 up into the valve from outside.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Derrick, they're probably stuck because you stared at them (that could freeze anything). 
Stillraining, thanks, one of them is exactly like that, I'll try. 
Stan, they're bronze, I'll try that too.
Tom, whatever that is it looks scary. I hope it's just a box of parts in your garage.


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## fourdegreesc (Nov 22, 2009)

1. Disconnect the hose that goes to the valve.
2. Hose clamp a piece of clear plastic hose in place and hang the other end from the overhead.
3. You can work on the valve and the water level will come up the tubing (if you ever need to know where the water line is outside this works too.
4. You may be able to remove the valve packing if it's packed (a lot of ball valves are not, which is why ball valves are insane for thru hulls). BUT if you get the valve free, you'll take water thru the valve assembly, seat, packing etc.

As for freeing valves these rules always apply:

1. Lube it.
2. Beat it.
3. Heat it.
4. Beat it while heating it.

Usually stuck valves will break free with some firm hammering on the housing, but a little propane heat goes a long way too. If the packing or seals inside are plastic (remember what I said about ball valves for thru hulls?) then heating it is a problem and contraindicated (I hate that word!).

If you take the safe route you will plug them from under the hull (or haul the boat). You can do it in snorkle gear with a standard wood plug from any chandlery (or from the glitter stores, West Marine, et. al.). No need to dive in a second time if you free it or not. A long handle screw driver or dowel down the tubing will push it out from topside.

If it's a copper-alloy fitting be careful about pouring corrosion inhibitor into it. Most are medium-strong acids and may take the copper out on the way. I'm not 100% sure of what corrosion would form on those valves anyway.

Valve exercise is one of the most important things to maintain. Despite what the AYBCWJblah blah blah says, GATE valves or other substantial valves are better for all hull penetrations. They can be maintained and lubed. Go on any Coast Guard inspected boat and try to find a ball valve on something important. It will never happen.

Be careful and good luck.

-dennis


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

The OP is in long island, I don't think he's jumping in the water anytime soon. 

Better work..fast..and have the right size hose....if you're going to pull one hose off and put another one on.....

I wouldn't be Banging on my seacock...while my boat is in the water..no matter how solid it seems.

If it doesn't loosen up with backing off a little on the nut and some light tapping...maybe some heat from a glue gun..I'd leave well enough alone..and catch it the next time you haul out....why risk making the situation worse?

Those Bungs have a lot of surface area...if they have been neglected for a long time...they'll need some lock-eeze ..stew..tap...more lock eeze...etc..
The bungs should be removed...cleaned with a lapping compound, lubricated and reinstalled......tapping out the bung with a wood block will keep the threads from getting buggered up...

These aren't ball valves..this is a tapered bung..

Gate Valves..for thru-hulls....no no ...not on any vessel of mine....
been there done that...


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

I say, spray paint the seacock to match the interior hull color, then repress all memory of it. 

You could ask the local boat yard if they would be willing to lift the boat up just past the thru-hull and let you work on it while suspended just above the water. A partial lift may be much less expensive than a full haul depending on the yard and whether they have their equipment readily in place.

Or . . . go to shallow water at high tide, wait for low tide so you're high and dry, work fast? Some people bottom paint their boats this way, right?


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## degreeoff (Oct 25, 2009)

Umm depending on how big the boat you could do waht I did on my c-27. I took the hose off, shoved a tapered plug in there, unscrewed it, shoved a tapered plug in there, ran to the store to get a new valve of non corrosive type and undid what I just stated above in reverse order. Now on hindsight if I had known what size valve I had there I would have had it ready to go and just done it all at once. Now a wee bit o water came in but thats what the bilge pump is for!!....LOL it worked and I didnt sink. I say screw the old valve (no pun) and just get a new one.

josh


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

For heat I might use boiling water, it does expand metal. I've also thought of using a mechanics wheel puller or press. That way I'm not levering against the hull.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Degree, mine don't unscrew. One of them has little nuts 90 degrees off the axis. What are they?


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

The little nut...(mine are screws)...are probably weep ports, or drains.

if your valve is like the one in Stillraining's picture, taking the nut out will expose the sidewall of the bung...you might be able to squirt some penetrating oil in there and let it work for awhile...

The previous owner of my boat, let all the spartan seacocks freeze in the open position too. I managed to get them all free over a few days letting the penetrating oil soak in for awhile...and then tapping...repeating the process.....

Spartan Marine Hardware Catalog

See the link for seacock maintanence


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## fourdegreesc (Nov 22, 2009)

Those are called quick hauls and I didn't think of that, but it's a great suggestion. Last one I had was $125, super cheap solution.

I've heard of people working on the bottom at low tide. You'd be hard pressed I would think to dry it up enough to paint the bottom though, at least according to the paint OEM specs.

As for jumping in, I hadn't looked at the OPs location. I'm from the south where we'd never give it a second thought, it's so routine here. But still, you're talking about two or three minutes in the water at most. If you have a decent wet suit you'd pull it off fine.

I thought bungs are emergency soft wood plugs. I've never heard the term applied to a valve, but I get the point. The OP didn't say it was one, but assuming that's true, they are not so bad to free up. Loosen the nut, as a previous posted suggested and tap tap tap.... You don't even need to take the nut off all the way. Of course you have to evaluate how hard to whack it. What will the support hold up to is a judgement call. Consider also backing up the valve itself with a second hammer. Place a heavy hammer against the valve housing and tap the nut (not the threads). The heavy hammer just adds weight to what would need to move before breaking the valve off.

Do the plastic ("marelon"?) valves get stuck? I wouldn't expect too much trouble from those.

But seriously, the best option is wait for the next haul or get yourself a quick haul. My last boat was plastic and the yard let me quick haul before a lunch break and I was able to drill out and replace all three thru-hull fittings all together.

Can you put a grease zerk on those valves? I don't know what the seating surface is like. Exercise is the answer though for sure.

As for gate style valves (we actually use globe valves for thru-hulls, but the same general arrangement), the benefits are clear enough to marine engineers and regulators (designers, American Bureau of Shipping, Coast Guard, etc.) to require them in certified or inspected vessels, whereas their detractor(s?) hasn't offered a single disadvantage. Completely rebuildable, packable...

Remember that it would take a long time to sink a boat while working on a valve. The main thing is you don't want it to fail while you're away or sleeping at anchor. How many folks reading have a bilge alarm? (here's a hint for you: make a cheap one by soldering a float switch into the TEST circuit on a $5 smoke detector).

Tempest's suggestion to leave well enough alone is probably the best advice, but I know I could never follow it myself. It would bug me too much to know it wasn't right. Nevertheless the smartest thing would be to lanyard a bung to the valve, make sure the hose attached to it is good, or consider installing another valve upstream from it in the hose. Messing with it could cascade into disaster.

Good luck again!


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## JVallely (Jan 17, 2009)

I hate to sound discouraging, but I had the same problem and tried many of the above sensible tricks without success. The PO had neglected them and 3 bronze ball-type thru-hulls were locked open.
Propane was out at the time because of the fire hazard and plastic seals. Boiling water barely got them warm--too much thermal mass plus full of the ocean. A heat gun got them warmer but didn't work for me. So I doubled up on the clamps, put wood plugs in just in case and thought pure thoughts for the next few weeks.
Once hauled out for the season, repeated dousings with a solvent worked over time. A solvent means PB Blaster or equivalent--not WD-40. The latter is a great water displacement ('WD') formula for drying your spark plug wires. It's not meant to be a solvent. It's basically kerosene--not anybody's first choice of rust-busters. (I use PB Blaster on rusted farm machinery & old cars.)
So I'd just hold my nose and have it hauled. Make sure you have a selection of big-a**ed monkey wrenches on hand, along with pipe cheaters & propane--you'll need them.
Good luck.
John V.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Well in that case here this should help you out understanding what you have..IMHO best valve ever made. I tore all mine down when I had the boat on the hard the first time and gave them a good R&R.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Stillraining.....yup.. I think I've seen that before!!....


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Well, don't sue me if I try the simple solutions before hauling.
My favorite penetrating oil is Kroil. I once disassembled a shaft coupling that was featureless by spraying it all winter with Kroil. In the spring it came apart as if new.


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## mike dryver (May 13, 2006)

Wanderingstar do have the type seacock shown or does yours have a bronze small t-handle opposite the shut off. if it does your valves are made of rubber and you only need to loosen small t-handle then work main handle to loosen. ours are from1979 and had not been serviced for about 15 yrs. all i did was what i just said and with a little effort they all came loose. after when boat was hauled i took the valves apart and lubed with non-petroleum grease. have worked flawlessly since then (5yrs) just lube when hauled. note when you get them moving water will come in the boat and you will see a bunch of crud in it. you won't get a lot of water just a little flow


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

I'd try the simple solutions before hauling as well, but I'd make sure I mitigate the risks with this job somehow so as not to sink the boat in the process if things don't go quite as planned. 

There are risk associated with some of the cheaper approaches mentioned above. For example, if you break the seacock mounting to the boat by unintentionally using too much manpower (or if the mounting isn't top notch to begin with - e.g., screws were used instead of thru-bolts), or if you use a heat gun, and the heat travels through the bronze and melts away whatever was used as a bedding compound and water starts coming into the boat, how are you going to stop it? Do you have a contingency plan ready to go?

Maybe nothing will go wrong at all, and then you can tell us you told us so, and recommend it for everyone else in this predicament. Only problem is, it may not go so well in every case out there. You could be lucky, but generally the prepared have a tendancy to be lucky more often, right?

If you can just wait until your next haul, that might be the cheapest and safest way forward.

If I *had* to take care of this now and didn't want to pay to lift the boat, I might ask the boatyard guys to be on standbye with the hoist just in case, and do the work in the hauling slip during yard business hours.

Whatever you choose, good luck and please keep us posted on how it goes.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Mike, thanks. Two of my valves are Grocos as you describe. One closed after I figured out the locking handle (there was a little tag with directions, but I had to tear it off to read it). The other is still stuck. 
The other stuck valve is a tapered plug exactly like those shown above.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

OK, I got them. First some WD40 (only spray oil on board), later Liquid Wrench, (what was in the car), then tapping with a 12oz hammer. The all bronze one I heated with a butane torch (on board). It moved well after that. The Groco with the rubber ball yielded to hammer taps on the handle. Thank you all.


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