# Croatia is The Place



## genoa

I wrote a post and it vanished  

anyway, croatia is the place to come to specially in may, june and september when there's no more crowd... a looooot to see - beautiful coast 1244 islands and rocks, numerous bays and coves... cultural and historical heritage - can't describe!... personal favorites Dubrovnik (overpriced, but you have to afford it), Trogir (small, packed, and astonishing) and Kornati's islands (beyond words)...
marinas are expensive (value for money questionable) but you can find exceptions; anchoring is quite a good option... 
swimming, snorkeling and diving like nowhere I've been to... 
winds can trick you in a sec,so be very careful especially in Velebt channel where gusts of Bora (NE wind) can make quite a show...


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## PCP

Yes I agree with you...but on the best anchorages you can not stay on anchor. You have to pick a buoy and even if they take your garbage away, you have to pay and a lot, for a buoy (20 to 27 euros for a 12m boat).

As you say, Marinas are expensive and the water (this summer in August, for 15 days) was cold, I mean, between 17º and 19º. Sure, you can find a nice of very interesting historic towns and little nice villages on the Islands but we have missed the turquoise waters and the sea temperature from the Balearic Islands, Sardinia and Corsica. on Croatia, even if the waters are clean they never get that color and on the other places I have mentioned I have always got sea water between 20 and 27º.

Regarding the Kornati Islands I don't agree with you (neither the guy that had charted the boat to me). They are without any vegetation, full of boats and they are not a match to the beauty of the Southern Islands, that are covered with deep green forests and Mediterranean flora.

Regarding the winds, that was perfect: No night wind (with one or two exceptions), weak wind on the morning and moderate wind the rest of the day.

Regards

Paulo


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## genoa

yes, I've heard about this July/ August and the weather... I've had perfect weather in May and June; air temp 27 - 35; sea temp. round 25. right now strong southern wind is keeping us in a marina in Mid Adriatic 
Kornatis are special because they are different... i loved it there... 
generally i like coratia because it's totally different from the destinations with tame landscape..


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## maxivalt

*croatia sea temperature*

In which part of adriatic sea water temperature was beetween 17 and 19º in august? 
Here are average temperatures of adriatic sea:










best regards


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## PCP

maxivalt said:


> In which part of adriatic sea water temperature was beetween 17 and 19º in august?
> Here are average temperatures of adriatic sea:
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> best regards


Thanks for that temperature chart. I am going to leave my boat in Croatia and have it as my sailing base for the season and that is useful. The only problem is that I am not the only one that finds that Croatia is a great place to sail, to live for some months and as base to explore the central med. There are lots of marinas but the berths are expensive and most of them are already full anyway.

Regards

Paulo


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## maxivalt

*Croacia*

I think that price of berths in Croatia is the same expensive like in rest of other mediteranen ports. Also...like elsewhere..in Croatia you can find more expensive ports and more economical ports.
Prices of Murter Hramina Port (near Kornati):










I don't think that berths in Sardinia o Corsica are much cheaper


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## Slayer

I don't necessarily believe everything I read, so I am not throwing this out as a fact, but only something I read. There is an article in the March issue of Crusising World, in an article written by Cap'n Fatty Goodlander, he writes about the advantages of cruisers wintering in Turkey. 

In the article he writes: "Croatia's skyrocketing costs and growing corruption make it far less yacht friendly." I don't know this to be true or not, but would be interested in other's comments.


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## PCP

I don't know about corruption but Croatia is probably the country that has more charter boats for m2 . This is one of the reasons that makes marinas expensive: Charter companies will pay almost anything to have a place. Contrary to Spain or Italy there are very few boats with Croatian flag that are not charter boats. I have been told that many Croatian have been forced to sell their own boats because they cannot afford the huge raise in price marinas.

Croatia is a lovely country but this kind of situation is creating some unbalances and as mostly sailors are charters I guess population looks at them and treats them as mass tourists, which they are 

Regards

Paulo


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## maxivalt

Slayer said:


> I don't necessarily believe everything I read, so I am not throwing this out as a fact, but only something I read. There is an article in the March issue of Crusising World, in an article written by Cap'n Fatty Goodlander, he writes about the advantages of cruisers wintering in Turkey.
> 
> In the article he writes: "Croatia's skyrocketing costs and growing corruption make it far less yacht friendly." I don't know this to be true or not, but would be interested in other's comments.


If Cap'n Fatty sailing only where is no coruption....I'm wonder where he sailing? 
Also...I would like to know where he was found information about "growing coruption" in Croatia 
Google
Anyway...how coruption can affect some stranger who sailing on his boat miles away from coast?


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## PCP

maxivalt said:


> If Cap'n Fatty sailing only where is no coruption....I'm wonder where he sailing?
> Also...I would like to know where he was found information about "growing coruption" in Croatia
> Google
> Anyway...how coruption can affect some stranger who sailing on his boat miles away from coast?


Well, I did not knew that

The country is ranking 70 and that is pretty bad:
Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.

On this site you have some Croats explaining it:

Visit Croatia - Politicians

maxivalt are you a Croate?

I wonder about the number of negative answers I got from dozens of marinas about an annual contract has something to do with it? I mean prices are fixed but If I pay higher will I have a place? I noticed that they are very slow to give answers and the answers are not always very clear...Humm!!


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## maxivalt

PCP said:


> Well, I did not knew that
> 
> The country is ranking 70 and that is pretty bad:
> Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.
> 
> On this site you have some Croats explaining it:
> 
> Visit Croatia - Politicians
> 
> maxivalt are you a Croate?
> 
> I wonder about the number of negative answers I got from dozens of marinas about an annual contract has something to do with it? I mean prices are fixed but If I pay higher will I have a place? I noticed that they are very slow to give answers and the answers are not always very clear...Humm!!


Articles (links) you publish are 6 years old (year 2005)  
Here is 2010 corruption index:
Corruption index 2010 from Transparency International: find out how each country compares | News | guardian.co.uk
If we compare it with 2005 corruption index:
Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.
we can conclude that corruption in Croatia is decreasing and, also,
we can conclude that corruption in United States are growing (2005 ranked 17, in 2010 ranked 22).
so, do NOT go sailing in United States becouse corruption there is growing 

How nonsensical conclusion..isn't it?

Yes...I'm Croatian.
Can you tell me to which Croatian marinas did you send requests?


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## PCP

maxivalt said:


> Articles (links) you publish are 6 years old (year 2005)
> Here is 2010 corruption index:
> Corruption index 2010 from Transparency International: find out how each country compares | News | guardian.co.uk
> If we compare it with 2005 corruption index:
> Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.
> we can conclude that corruption in Croatia is decreasing and, also,
> we can conclude that corruption in United States are growing (2005 ranked 17, in 2010 ranked 22).
> so, do NOT go sailing in United States becouse corruption there is growing
> 
> How nonsensical conclusion..isn't it?
> 
> Yes...I'm Croatian.
> Can you tell me to which Croatian marinas did you send requests?


It makes no sense to compare the US index on corruption with the Croatian one. On those tables countries are classified from 10 (no corruption) to 0 (absolute corruption.

US had scored in 2005-7.6 in 2008 7.3 in 2009 7.5 in 2010 7.1. It is normal some yearly divergence but the country had scored well, always above 7 and the variation is not significant.

Croatia had scored 3.4 in 2005, 4.4 in 2008, 4.1 in 2009, 4.1 in 2010. It scored around 4 and if we cannot say that the corruption is increasing we can say that the figures are pretty bad and that don't show a significant improvement.

Regarding Croatia, I have liked the country and its population to the point as to chose the place to live some months in a year, and I have said that I have not noticed corruption, but then I was not in a situation where I could have noticed it. Regarding you being a Croat I think that given the nature of your posts you should have said that in first place. Nobody is "neutral" about its own country and that's only natural .

I have contacted about 12 big marinas and some have taken 8 days for giving an answer. I find it odd. A big marina has a permanent staff and they should now pretty well if they have annual places available or not. And then this is not the only "odd" thing: For instance the Dubrovick marina (an ACI marina and that means they have different prices but the same rules for all, rules that are available in their site) when I have asked for a place 6 month in the water and 6 month out of the water offered me an annual place with the boat out of water because they had no available places in the water. Ok, than I have asked for a winter 6 month place for the boat out of the water, one modality that is contemplated in the ACI marinas papers and documents:

*Dubrovnik Marina price list - Storage on land: Note: semi-annual (winter season) contract can be concluded in the period from October till April.

All ACI marinas opened all year round that offer the possibilities of storage on land according to availability in the period from October 1st till April 30th offer storage on land for 6 months. The Contract for period of 6 months can be concluded starting from October 1st with the expiration deadline on April 30th. Upon request this type of Contract can be concluded after October 31st but the expiration deadline remains April 30th.
The price of semi-annual (winter season) storage on land is half the cost of annual storage on land in each ACI marina increased by 10%.*

Adriatic Croatia International Club // aci-club.hr

Well, after all they don't have it . So they have an year long annual place on land but don't have one just for the winter? Since in the summer is the time where there are more land berths available (they are even less expensive) It seems obviously to me that if they have one for all year they will have one for the winter. It seems also clear to me that they don't want to rent that place by the price they advertise on the ACI site. That means they don't go by the book, that they have the place and that this is a question of money. So I have to pay more than what they have on the papers. How much more, to whom?

Regards

Paulo


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## maxivalt

*Croacia*

Today I was read one of capt'n fatty stories and find out that he can't differentiate between gredee and corrupted.
Fatty Goodlander, S/V Wild Card - Corruption & Bribery in the Suez Canal
so...in the future I'll not taking his opinion so serious 
I don't think that money can solve your problem....find berth in Dubrovnik is imposible...
What about marinas in north Dalmatia?...to far from central mediterranean or?
:::: MARINA HRAMINA ::::
Marina Tribunj
....
Also, what about montenegro port?
It's 32 miles from Dubrovnik
More expensive than in Croatia can't be 
Don't ask me about coruption there because I don't have any idea 
http://www.portomontenegro.com/pdf/vision.pdf


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## Tnd

maxivalt said:


> Also, what about montenegro port?
> It's 32 miles from Dubrovnik
> More expensive than in Croatia can't be
> Don't ask me about coruption there because I don't have any idea
> http://www.portomontenegro.com/pdf/vision.pdf


It's not much cheaper too. Prices are from 30-35euro per day for small boats. But that is lowest price that you can get. At least, it was like that last year. In Croatia is not much more expensive, you can find berth from 40Euro.


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## PCP

Tnd said:


> It's not much cheaper too. Prices are from 30-35euro per day for small boats. But that is lowest price that you can get. At least, it was like that last year. In Croatia is not much more expensive, you can find berth from 40Euro.


Yes I have checked for a 41ft boat it will cost about 5000€ a year but the boat would have to be all the time in the water. They don't offer winter on land, summer on the water, they don't have the space for the land berths. That's about the same that most big marinas in Croatia, perhaps slightly less.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

maxivalt said:


> ..
> What about marinas in north Dalmatia?...to far from central mediterranean or?
> :::: MARINA HRAMINA ::::
> Marina Tribunj
> ...


Thanks,I had already tried those two. They say they don't have annual places .

I guess that with so many little arbors and so many sheltered places it will be possible to find a less expensive berth but probably those places don't have internet sites and should be really hard to find

I have find already some places with berths, but they are not what I call at a good price

Regarding prices in Corsica and Sardinia they are about the same but I could find a shipyard on Sardinia where I could let my 36ft boat for 2500€/year (secured) and this seems quite impossible to get in Croatia.

Regards

Paulo


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## maxivalt

*Croacia*

2500 euros all year berth...sound so gooood...anyway...if you need any information about some Croatian port (marina)...I don't have any problem to call them and, speaking Croatian, find more relevant information. 
Just send a questions and port name of your interest.
Right now i'm living in Marbella..so if you, also, need some information about berth in Marbella or Puerto Banus..here I'am


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## spa667

Hey, ive been to croatia last summer.it was amazing and in comparison to US its relatively cheap.


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## PCP

maxivalt said:


> 2500 euros all year berth...sound so gooood...anyway...if you need any information about some Croatian port (marina)...I don't have any problem to call them and, speaking Croatian, find more relevant information.
> Just send a questions and port name of your interest.
> Right now i'm living in Marbella..so if you, also, need some information about berth in Marbella or Puerto Banus..here I'am


Thanks for your offer . They speak English, at least the big ones. I am very close to finish a deal. When I do I tell you where

I know Porto Bonus, that is a very expensive marina and not a very nice one in what regards sailboats, Just huge luxury power boats. Do you know that in a luxury marina like that, with shops from Gucci, Versace, Dior, Coco Chanel, Louis Vuitton and lots of Ferraris on the streets they have disgusting toilets and baths? It seems that the guys on the big motor boats don't use then and they don't care

I had been there once when I was going to the Ballearic Islands duo sailing the boat, me and my daughter. He made it non stop from the west coast of Portugal and where both in need of a good meal and that was the only marina that had places. Bad choice, the marina was very expensive and the price of a meal on a nearby restaurant was just incredible and the quality lousy. I love Spain, but that is a place to avoid

Regards

Paulo


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