# Dry bilges



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

After some study of the issue, it seems there is simply a design flaw on our boat, where water that comes down the mast will remain in one flat section of the bilge and never reach the pump.

Since it's not a leak, I'm going to need to figure out how to pump it out of this flat space. It does not get deep enough for a traditional pump.

I looked at the Arid Bilge system, which is outrageously expensive.

I also looked at the Dry Bilge system, which I don't think will really pick up the last bit. Having even a 32nd inch of water sitting there is a problem.

Any home built recipes for fully drying out a bilge?

Its not a leak, so finding it is not the answer.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

The only thing that works 100% for me is shop vac and a sponge. Bilge pumps never pick up that last 1/2" of water at the bottom of the bilge in my experience. Will be interested to hear if there's a better solution!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Shop Vac, and, when I leave the boat, I open the bilge covers. Because I don't stay plugged in, I connect a 5 Watt solar panel to the circuit which powers the Camframo fans on low when the sun is out. Bilges stay dry.


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

Similar spot in my Pearson. I've been manually drying it out with a cheap fuel siphon. I think that any automatic solution would need to use a flat solid state bilge switch like a Water Witch. I'm also looking for bilges that can truly get that "final inch."


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

Float switch connected to the shop vac?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

What a outbuilding up the area with fiberglass so water can't pool there in the first place?

[EDIT]Wow...autocorrect can really mess thing up! That was supposed to say "What about building up the area with fiberglass...". If you slope the floor/bilge in that area, you could push the water into the other, deeper parts of the bilge[/EDIT].


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I can't block it off entirely, as the limbers are necessary to drain water in a catastrophic event. It's the constant 1/4" of water that sits that is the issue.

I do go on with a shop vac, but I was hoping for an automated solution. The Arid Bilge system just doesn't seem impossible to fabricate somehow.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Recently there was thread on small dehumidifiers. One identified drew six amps at 12v and remove 4 pints a day. If you connected the drain to a sink drain, sealed the boat, and could tolerate 1200W of electrical consumption, you'd probably have a very dry boat.

If you have tee swage terminals on your shrouds, install rubber plugs if you don't have them already. They make a big difference in the amount of water that gets down the mast.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I dry sailed my old boat (i.e., "moored" it on a trailer). There was an approximately 5/8" drain hole in _almost_ the lowest part of the bilge. To keep the last little bit of rainwater from just sitting in the bilge I took a length of cotton twine and laid it so it ran through the wet area of the bilge and then out the drain hole, with about a foot or so dangling under the boat. When it rained the the water would overflow out the drain hole and the twine would get saturated. It would then act as a siphon and draw the rest of the water out.

If you have a fairly deep bit of bilge near to your problem area try some version of the above string trick and see how it works. If it doesn't work you're only out a penny's worth of string an five or ten minutes of your time.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

My mast drains into shallow bilges areas that are isolated (no limber holes). I periodically check for water and then use a hose--same kind as used for my fresh water system--that is connected to my shower sump pump via a Y-valve. 

It isn't automated, but it works. There is no convenient way to run a hose to a drain in the head, so I live with the manual process. As the water goes down and the hose is sucking air, it is a simple matter to put your finger over the hose and lift it up high enough to drain the last bit of water in the hose. The remaining water in the slack bilge area can be wiped dry with a sponge or paper towel, but I let it air-dry.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SlowButSteady said:


> I dry sailed my old boat (i.e., "moored" it on a trailer). There was an approximately 5/8" drain hole in _almost_ the lowest part of the bilge. To keep the last little bit of rainwater from just sitting in the bilge I took a length of cotton twine and laid it so it ran through the wet area of the bilge and then out the drain hole, with about a foot or so dangling under the boat. When it rained the the water would overflow out the drain hole and the twine would get saturated. It would then act as a siphon and draw the rest of the water out.
> 
> If you have a fairly deep bit of bilge near to your problem area try some version of the above string trick and see how it works. If it doesn't work you're only out a penny's worth of string an five or ten minutes of your time.


Neat trick, may try that over the winter too. Unfortunately, the only way to route the string now would be back through the place where the water enters.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Hudsonian said:


> Recently there was thread on small dehumidifiers. One identified drew six amps at 12v and remove 4 pints a day. If you connected the drain to a sink drain, sealed the boat, and could tolerate 1200W of electrical consumption, you'd probably have a very dry boat.
> 
> If you have tee swage terminals on your shrouds, install rubber plugs if you don't have them already. They make a big difference in the amount of water that gets down the mast.


Thanks for the idea, but we have a furling main, so there is a 60 foot slot about an inch wide that's letting the water in.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

fallard said:


> ... connected to my shower sump pump via a Y-valve. ....


Clever idea and I'm not opposed to installing an additional pump for this job. All I need to do is get the water to the bilge with the bilge pump. Manually switched would be better than nothing, but I'm even thinking of a timer, as long as the pump can run dry.

I think the trick here is going to be the pickup. The Arid Bilge pickup looks interesting and I would think it could be replicated. Not sure.


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

Is there a height difference that would allow a wick to work? Sort of like a syphon, if you set a wick into the water and drape it up and over whatever the obstacle in the way of draining is, then place the other end lower it will transport water.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Silvio said:


> Is there a height difference that would allow a wick to work? Sort of like a syphon, if you set a wick into the water and drape it up and over whatever the obstacle in the way of draining is, then place the other end lower it will transport water.


Yes, the actual deep bilge with the pump is lower by a few inches. However, the wick would have to climb about 2 ft over a stringer. That should theoretically work, but would it restart if all dried out for a few days?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

make a sump situation with a pump and collector. or find a way to block the grooves--the most ridiculous thing i have seen in sail boat design is that stoopit track to allow water into boat ....i am so glad i have wood masts and no routing for incoming water ---i have to salt fresh water to make it not be a rotting event....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've been wondering if I wrapped the mast step in those high absorbant chamois, if I could head it off. They would have to be removed frequently, but I wouldn't mind if I had to swap them out weekly, or so.

However, I would say that a gallon or two collects after a storm. Not sure how much they hold. It would be silly to use a dozen of them.

No way I would trade a little water in the bilge for a wooden mast.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

I always thought that the majority of the water came in through the stuffing box until this last year when the boat was on the hard and I saw how much water was coming down that keel steped mast. I do have caulking in the mast slot to block the water from reaching the bilge so that leaves the slots in the mast where the internal halyards exit. Not sure if more water is coming from the top of the mast or from those exit points near deck level. I'll be trying to block off some of those lower points to see if it helps.


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## robwilk37 (Apr 13, 2010)

just another reason not to have a furling mast along with fluting, poor battonless shape even worse when reefed, expensive blah blah blah...

but that doesnt help you now. ive seen masts filled with foam to a level above the deck and drain holes drilled there. depends on how the wiring gets out of the mast to the rest of the boat though. or you could fab an aluminum plug/plate to do the same thing, tricky installing it though but its been done before. riggers have all kinds if tricks for working inside masts. of course pulling the rig just to fix this minor design flaw might be too much.

glad im deck stepped...


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## 67Therapy (Nov 30, 2009)

Do you run your air conditioner with regularity? I've been thinking of putting a venturi on the air conditioning outflow line to suck up condensation in the AC pan (like the Mermaid system). Since this is a very minimal amount of water, I was thinking something around the size of aquarium tubing that terminated in a small sponge. Your picture above seems a similar type idea. Haven't installed it yet, but the venturi that I think will work is a Mazzei 684 or 584.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

67Therapy said:


> Do you run your air conditioner with regularity? I've been thinking of putting a venturi on the air conditioning outflow line to suck up condensation in the AC pan (like the Mermaid system). Since this is a very minimal amount of water, I was thinking something around the size of aquarium tubing that terminated in a small sponge. Your picture above seems a similar type idea. Haven't installed it yet, but the venturi that I think will work is a Mazzei 684 or 584.


That's a really interesting idea.


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Yes, the actual deep bilge with the pump is lower by a few inches. However, the wick would have to climb about 2 ft over a stringer. That should theoretically work, but would it restart if all dried out for a few days?


I would give it a try. Only just now saw that SlowbutSteady had the same idea. I start as simply as I can with these problems and increase complexity as needed. A wick is cheap, disposable, and has no moving parts. 
If it dries out and re-wets it should begin the process on its own, it is basically capillary action if it works at all.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Minnie, in reading through this thread again, I realize you are right, this is a major design flaw and will lead to the boat being unsafe. You should immediately stop using the boat and ship it to me. I'm sorry, but since I am taking on this kind of liability, I will have to insist that you pay the shipping. I will then ensure the boat is properly "disposed of".


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Jim, thanks for the offer. I'm going to wrestle it a bit longer, but if it gets the best of me, you can have her.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

67Therapy said:


> ....Haven't installed it yet, but the venturi that I think will work is a Mazzei 684 or 584.


The more I think about it, the more I'm liking this idea. The AC probably runs enough to keep it dry. I can't readily tell the difference between these two. Is there a significant difference, I'm not seeing?

A follow on thought is to perhaps buy the Arid Bilge pickups and attach them to a venturi. Anyone know where to find them online?


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## CatalinaRob (Jun 25, 2010)

I get about an inch of rain water in my bilge every month - I can't seem to determine the source and its fresh water. My bilge pump can't get the last of it out so I use a suction pump like this. I just pump it into a small bucket but you can easily install one of these in a permanent manner.

12v Marine Utility Water Pump


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minne, the wick should restart itself and certainly would be cheap enough to try.

I had a friend with a Beneteau25 (?) that had a similar problem. His solution was to buy the cheapest paper towels in the store and leave one roll standing up in the damp spot. When he came onboard he'd just toss it if it was soaked.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I will give the wick a try too. Why not. Cool idea. Just have to find some cloth line.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Hardware store: Cotton clothesline.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

That should be easy. Thanks.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I just remembered that it used to help to set a sponge on the end of the twine/wick/siphon that was in the bilge. It kept the twine from moving around (and/or falling out of the bottom of the boat), and it seemed to drive the whole siphoning process to completion a bit better than without the sponge. Also, if I recall correctly, I used pretty heavy twine; probably closer to the cotton clothesline that others have mentioned than kitchen/butcher's twine.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

even if the wick didn't pull water into the lower part of the bilge, it would help to dry it out. The water being pulled up into the wick would have more surface area to the air, and would evaporate quicker


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I have seen a chamois cloth (or Sham-wow) used for this purpose. This kind of cloth allows amazing capillary action with water. The starting and ending points would need to be secured somehow.


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## 67Therapy (Nov 30, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> I can't readily tell the difference between these two. Is there a significant difference, I'm not seeing?


I couldn't tell the difference between the venturi's...on the Mazzei site they have the tech specs, but it's a bit beyond my reading comprehension level...

I stumbled on the the idea from this thread: sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/32519-ac-condensate-drainage.html {You have to put in the 3W's in front of sailnet there all by yourself because I don't have enough posts yet to post links...sorry}

There are a couple other of other ideas in that thread that might work for your situ, but they aren't quite so Sham-wowzing as the ideas in this thread....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Hadn't seen the link. Turns out the Mermaid condensator is a kit that essentially does this. $170 at defender, but the venturi were $80 or $90 alone and I have to source tubing, filters, etc. Still, I'm thinking the Arid Bilge pickup is the trick. I can not find where to buy those online at all.


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## n8kraft (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm a fan of using diapers to get water out of hard to reach parts of the bilge. I've got a baby on the boat so there are plenty of diapers available and they're super absorbant. You could even use the velcro to secure it around the base of the mast.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Real diapers, bad memories.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

n8kraft said:


> I'm a fan of using diapers to get water out of hard to reach parts of the bilge. I've got a baby on the boat so there are plenty of diapers available and they're super absorbant. You could even use the velcro to secure it around the base of the mast.


why do I have images of a mast in diapers now?


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