# Avoid teak decks, but love a Passport?



## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Greetings all and thanks very much for the continuing advice.

I've been grinding through boat walk throughs and trying to narrow things down, but running into a dilemma. I have two strong absolutes in my search: No teak decks and must have 6'3 headroom. I'd really like a modified fin keel/skeg rudder plan, but may have to live with a modified full keel. I don't want to be over $100K total equipped, but edging up to a $150K limit. Beyond that I get pretty reasonable. 

But here is the dilemma ... The Passport would be beautiful, but seems to only exist with teak decks (and pricey, but hey, it's beautiful). The Valiant is only about 6'1" headroom if I recall right (please correct me if you know better). The Pacific Seacraft is also shorter than 6'3" I think. Checked on a Pearson 424, but ultimately not real comfortable with it as a multiyear bluewater boat. I like Tayana 37's, but they are also just a bit short and a modified full keel and would have to find the pullman berth.

So the question: Can anyone suggest a boat similar to any or all of the above (esp. the Passport) that does not cost $250K, has a modified fin keel/skeg, 6'3" headroom, and capable of safely wandering where I choose? I suppose I could just buy the Passport and rip off the teak, but boy that seems like a lot of money for a boat to just start tearing it apart.

I just know me and that means I'm going to run aground, probably someplace remote. I'll be going slow, but I'll see some little hole someplace and try to squeeze in ... hence, no spade rudder.

Thanks again for any assistance!


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## STTnBama (Jan 20, 2009)

What was it that you didn't like about the Pearson 424? Just curious.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

How long a boat are you looking for?? Getting a fully equipped 40' bluewater boat for only $100k in good condition is going to be tough. Even with a budget of $150,000, you're probably going to have very few choices. 

If that is all you can afford, you might have to re-think your choice of boats.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Why would you feel you immediately needed to expend the money to remove the teak decks if there was no evidence of a problem? A lot of folks, myself included, steer away from teak decks because they are a potential problem. However, if the boat that looked to be the best fit for my needs in every other way had teak decks, I would not rule the boat out just on that basis. Lots of high end boats have teak decks of similar construction to the Passport. You may eventually have to incur the expense to remove or replace the teak, but you could possibly complete your bluewater sailing and sell the boat a never have an issue with the decks.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

We've got a Passport 40 with teak decks. We're going to keep them until they start creating leaks in the cabin, and then we'll rip them out and probably replace them with fiberglass. Many Passport 40 owners have already done this. Don't let the teak decks dissuade you from a boat you love - our P40 is an incredible vessel. If you are adamant about this and can't find a P40 with glass decks, check out the Caliber LRC - very similar style and quality.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Fraser 41 is comparable to the Passport in configuration and size. I don't know the ceiling height, but I'm 6-1 and I don't touch it. Many were a kit boat, so interior quality varies.

Labatt. Does yours have the head all the way forward? if so how is that working out for you? We ruled out one Passport out of 3 or 4 that we looked at because the head was in the bow, and I just didn't think that would work in rough seas.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

We have the v-berth forward model for the exact reason you mention. We couldn't see using a forward head in big seas. Even using the head just aft of the berth (in our configuration) is interesting at times. Just remember this rule - real sailors sit. Our Passport also had a head in the aft cabin but we removed it for extra storage. It would have been the best one to use in heavier seas.


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## Snboard976 (Aug 10, 2008)

Caliber 40 ( I don't think the LRC version is worth the extra 75k) the regular Caliber 40 or 38 (which is the same boat without the swim platform) fits the price, headroom 6'5" and bluewater requirements, but it is a modified full keel.

Whitby 42, some might argue that it is not a true bluewater boat, but it seems heavily built to me. They fit price, headroom (6'6"), not sure about the keel. 

Southern Cross 39, very well built with passage making in mind. Fits all requirements. The headroom is 6'3" or 6'4".

Cabo Rico 38: no personal experience with this boat, but is suppose to have excellent build quality and be beautiful.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We recently spent a week on a friends' Passport 40, forward berth layout and found it to be a very nice boat indeed. It does have the teak decks, but as others have indicated I think that's something to be dealt with if or when it becomes an issue.

This one had the full U shaped dinette, which provides a bit more seating than Labatt's version.... but all around they are beautiful, solid boats that look good and handle nicely in a breeze (but not so good in close quarters under power.....)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You can find Tayana 42s without teak decks but they have a full keel. I agree with the advice on teak decks, if they are in good shape it would not scare me away. A good surveyor can check them out for you. The passport is an excellent boat.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies.

The teak decks may be something I have just become overly concerned about. I like the look (who wouldn't), but since I'm looking at boats that are at least 20 years old, I don't want to run into underlayment replacement problems. My other concern is the result of wanting to use the boat primarily in the tropics and I've read the teak decking gets very hot. It does seem like I could find one with the teak already removed - but so far no luck on that front. My timeline still allows me a couple years to search though.

Sailingdog, I agree the P40 may be pushing the budget limit, but I'm curious if everyone else feels that budget is unrealistic in general? In truth, I am trying to work out some of the variables involved and that is how the P40 snuck in - I used to think I'd buy a cheaper boat and bring it up to the task and then sell it at the end. The P40 has me now thinking the wiser move may be to buy a better boat and spend the same $$$ bringing it up to speed, but recoup at least as much of the of the initial purchase price at the end of the cruise. If boat "A" can be bought for $60k and I put $60K into it, sail, then resell for $40K; am I really any further ahead than buying a well-kept Boat "B" for $140, putting the same $60K into it and reselling at the end for $120? If my logic turns out to be accurate, the same real money provides a better boat, more enjoyable cruise, and possibly greater safety. Any thoughts?

As for re-thinking in general, I may be totally wrong, but I think I should be able to find something in the 37' - 40' range for that target cost. I like, and see listings for, Tayana 37s generally in the $80K range. Assuming $40K in refit costs puts me about $120K. I'm seeing some Valiant 40's now listed about $100K range. With $50K refit that still puts me at $150K. Am I way off? FWIW, I would prefer a 37 or maybe a 38, but it seems tough enough to find enough headroom that I may have to go up to 40 or even 42.

As for the P424, the one I looked at wasn't bad, but even the broker (who liked them) felt they would leak a good bit over time. He felt they were a great open ocean layout, but when I explained I'd be using it at least five years and wanted to have the option to cross oceans, he started recommending other boats - that he did not have in inventory. My research on the internet seems to indicate they are borderline for the use from a wear and tear standpoint. I read about shelves (which are used to strengthen the hull) coming apart, bulkheads separating, oil-canning, etc. I'm open to contrary opinions - they certainly hit the price point nicely and I like the layout.

I plan to check out the Tayana 42s and Cabo Ricos (expensive), just haven't found one local yet to nose around on. I'll add the Calibers and Southern Cross 39 to my search. 

I am by nature frugal (please read: cheap) and my need for all the bells and whistles is pretty basic. OTOH I confess to leaning toward the position of saying it's better to pay your money up front and have the right sailing machine/home so you can enjoy the actual experience and stay on the hook, than save a few dollars and want for a comfortable place to sleep and live for several years. That, and I screwed up and let the Admiral see a Passport in person this week. 

As always, I welcome your input.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I would second the Tayana 42.

Brian


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

FWIW - issues with teak decks can be repaired. The overhead being too low is forever.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Regarding the price, we bought a Cal 2-46 in good condition for under a $100,000. I have been working on getting the boat ready for cruising and most of the repairs I am doing are in the hundereds of dollars not thousands. These are excellent boats for the money and are a blue water capable boat. The headroom is just 6 foot 3 at the cabin crown. The entrance to the v-berth is low and might be a problem. No teak decks. Modify full keel with a skeg rudder.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Just wanted to round out the forum. The Caliber looks great, I've checked out several online and hope to get to see one for real in the next few weeks. Also checking out the Passport 37 after everyone urged me to not worry so much about teak decks.

I especially appreciate the point that I can live with teak better than a short roof.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

You might look at the Bristol 41, they have 6'5" headroom and are a lovely boat in your price range. I be;lieve most of them are keel/centerboards, and there should be some keels around. The centerboard has a lot to say for itself relative to cruising...


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Another Caliber 40 Vote*

Very similar to the Passport 40's but no teak deck. My parents are in the process of buying a Caliber 40 to go cruising on for a few years. Ive crawled around on a lot of these boats with my dad and am extremely impressed with the quality. Top shelf inside and out. Many of the boats on the markets are equipped and ready to cruise with very little re-fit needed. Well made, designed, and solid.
You can find one within your budget if you obviously dont mind buying one that is a little older. As mentioned earlier, the C38 and 40 are the same boat, but the latter has a swim platform/scoop. I believe this change was made around 1992. The keel/rudder design should be to your liking.
Also, Whiles its a true purpose built blue water boat, its not an Old Shoe, especially above 10 knots wind.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Have you considered having 4" removed from your shins?

This is one of the few subjects upon which I relish my 5'7" stature.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Still liking the Passports and Calibers - hope to find a Caliber to check out soon - they look nice on the net anyway. The Bristol 41 looks nice, I assume you mean the Center Cockpit?

How much does the shin-ectomy cost? Might be cheaper ...


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

We looked very carefully at Calibers, lovely boat with a few (big) negatives:

1. Small galley with limited storage- we like to cook

2. Nav station behind the galley (on the port side)

3. Quarter berth only good for anorexic people

They need to build a Caliber 42....

Buy a Passport - sexier looks and a Perry designed galley that is superb. Probably faster too.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Hmmm ... good to know about the limited galley. We like to cook, as well. I like the look of the Caliber, but have yet to actually get on one. Does the Passport 40 compare well, or are you referring to the Passport 41/42?

Anyone ever read anything about adding the swim step to a 38?

I got on another Valiant 40 the other day and confirmed my earlier observations of them ... nice boat with tiny berths and a skosch too short. Headroom maybe 6'2 and berth less than 6'.

The Passport has a slightly better PHRF rating and points a bit higher from what I've read.


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

Yes - the Passport 40's galley is fantastic, large with lots of storage. Best galley I have seen in a 38'-42' boat. I have got a Catalina 400 which has got a pretty good and large galley but I still prefer the Passport 40 Galley ( a friend of mine owns a Passport 40 so I am familiar with the boat)


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

We agree... the galley, among other things, is a great aspect of the P40. BTW - if you can find a Passport 41, they are a Passport 40 with a "sugar scoop"ish transom - identical in all other ways. There's an active Passport mailing list at Passport Owners | Google Groups


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

labatt said:


> We agree... the galley, among other things, is a great aspect of the P40. BTW - if you can find a Passport 41, they are a Passport 40 with a "sugar scoop"ish transom - identical in all other ways. There's an active Passport mailing list at Passport Owners | Google Groups


Yeah, but the P40 transom is very pretty, the P41 less so IMHO...


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## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

What's a ballpark figure for having teak decking removed and replaced with fiberglass on 40 footer?


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Depends on where you go... in the US, it's very expensive, ranging from $25k-$60k. I've heard many recommendations to go to Mexico or the Dominican Republic to get your decks redone. Another Passport 40 owner had their decks redone in Mexico for about $15k.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

I know this is a few months later, but I always feel there should be follow-ups on these posts for folks like me who are researching ...

I've checked out the Passport 40 and Tayana 42 with center cockpit - no luck yet finding an aft cockpit Tayana or Caliber to get on, but have a chance to check out a Caliber new on the market this weekend.

My research has found the Tayana 42 is a very nice boat, sells about $20 - $30k less than the Passport according to BUC values assuming similar condition, equipment, etc. They are both just a hair more than 6'3" interiors. The Tayana center cockpit fails on the height for me in the cockpit - the boom comes across at about 5'10". This seems both dangerous and inconvenient (bimini would have to fit under) for me to deal with at 6'3". The PHRF ratings put the Passort 40 (141) fastest, Caliber 38 (150) a few seconds behind that (with slightly less pointing ability), and the Tayana supposedly a 150 rating but that probably thanks to much more sail area. None of them are rocket ships.

The Tayana and Passport both have beautiful interiors though.

As for the original point of the thread ... leaning toward just living with the teak decks if I have to. It's all about trade-offs and the Caliber may or may not fit the bill. I'll try to update if I get more info from visiting a Caliber.

Prices seem to vary a good bit, but BUC would tend to indicate in today's market a decent Tayana 42 will go for maybe $100K, a Passport 40 $120K, and a Caliber seems to go along with the Passport with maybe a bit more pricey - LRC version is way more than I care to spend. I know it all varies by region, condition, seller's circumstances, etc., but the point of this post is to report what I've observed in a few months of research. Yes, there is a beautiful, heavily customized P-40 listed for over $200k here in Seattle and I've been on it, but it has dropped about 25% and still sits at the dock. A Tayana 42 here I've also been on has dropped $25k and still sits at the dock ... now at $115K. If you are in the market and want more info on either, PM me and I'll fill you in but both seem to be potentially good boats for the right buyer. We would likely have put an offer in on the Tayana if it weren't for my concerns with the boom height.

I'd like to buy in the next year, but I still have three years before I actually head out. I'm still curious about the notion that any of these boats can't be bought and outfitted for $150K, but that may be my inexperience talking. That, and this has definately turned into a buyer's market.

Any observations are welcome and still very open to other boat suggestions. I must be getting closer to actually buying as I keep hearing that I'll know the right boat when I see it and feel it, and the Passport 40 is clearly the boat that has hit me that way so far.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

We paid considderably more for the Tayana 42 than 100kish. I think our final settle was 140ish - and that may have ben a steal. It was an 88/89 model. Aft cockpit.

I find BUC very missleading. Soldboats.com is a better ballpark. 

I really like the Passports too - jus tmaking an observation.

- CD


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I agree with CD...there are lots of cheaply priced Tayanas out there with BIG problems just waiting for "adoption". If you want a good one it will run you significantly more than 100k. 
Call a broker...get the list of sales in the last year or so from soldboats.com and pick the most expensive price. That is likely close to what a good T42 will sell for...or just a bit below it given the worsening economic climate.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

One boat that is not mention is a Morgan I/O.. Bluewater and the headroom you need along with the price you are looking for. While not my favorite boat there a many that have cruised the world. I would look for a late model 1980's boat. There are certain models that would fit your needs but I am not familiar with them. I am sure the experts here would chime in.


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## Elzaar (Aug 18, 2005)

Wow, just throwing out some prices got the thread going again. 

I appreciate any and all input. Cruisingdad, I am curious when you bought your boat at $140K? Did it have any major problems at that price? I readily admit that looking at a few boats is a total crapshoot for trying to set value in any market - probably moreso than ever in today's economy. I've been nosing around boats for a few years now and I'd say there is a striking difference in broker attitudes here in Seattle since the economic downturn began. Pre-economy problems brokers would confidently assure me how the boat was worth asking and was a "steal." Now I generally find that within 15 minutes of serious discussion (including discovering I have a solid job and intent to buy) the price begins dropping all on it's own - usually by tens of thousands. I wouldn't claim that is the case on all boats - I'm sure much depends on how interested the seller is in moving the boat - but the only constant I know in every case is me.

In doing research on BUC and Soldboat.com I found that they are both based on reported sale prices - so I would think the one should be relatively as accurate as the other. Soldboat.com seems to only include broker-reported sales to Yachtworld while BUC is based on all sales, which may very likely drive down the BUC average since non-broker sales will generally be cheaper. I suggest also that for those willing to walk docks, etc., BUC may potentially be more accurate overall as it would include a larger sample-size.

Having said all of that, I should also clarify something I should have included with the latest post now under discussion ... I expect to put at least 30 - 40% addiitional into any boat I plan to sail away in - so the values I posted are for average condition ... the Tayana I suspect I could get for around $100K already has about $30K work I know I would have to do/get done. My mental ball park budget would have a completed value of $140 - $150K. 

Please don't take any of this reply to be argumentative. I really appreciate the input and I fully recognize that I can only guesstimate most of this stuff based on research and limited exposure. The only way to really know will of course be when I make an offer, buy a boat, and discover all the unknown work awaiting me. But I do have to temper the welcome advice by factoring in the current economic climate, my own patience and negotiating skills, and whatever I can learn by talking to people and walking docks.

Melrna - thanks for suggesting the Morgan. I'll check it out further. It seems like I've looked into the Morgans before, but I can't recall why I ended up dropping it. I'll go look into it some more.

Time for me to run, but please give any feedback you can. It is appreciated.


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