# I am 26, and seriously considering moving aboard with my girlfriend. Any advice?



## jambone (Jun 15, 2012)

*I am 26, and seriously considering moving aboard. Any advice?*

I cannot afford a house right now, but would like to spend around 100,000 on a comfortable sailboat to live on Lake Ontario. Am currently looking at Beneteau's between 36' and 40'. Does not need to be a bluewater boat, as I will only be cruising lake Ontario, however, don't want a cheap flimsy boat. Will probably be looking between years 90's and early 2000's. Any advice? Does this boat sound okay? Thanks a lot.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

That's a decent budget for the size.. Beneteaus are quite nice, but in many cases the berths can be 'pushed out' to the ends of the boat, with V berths especially being pinched forward and not so comfortable for two. However many Benes now have athwartships aft doubles that work well.

However for $100K you can get a Catalina 36MKII - doubt you will find a nicer liveaboard layout for two, huge V berth plus a good aft double - you'll have your choice, great galley and very nice cockpit for summer cruising too. It allows you to easily host another couple of guests too..There's a nice 2001 available at our marina in Vancouver, asking $89K. For some the fact that Catalina uses lead in all their keels vs some Benes using iron is another common deciding factor.

Don't expect living aboard to end up being cheaper.. there are extra fees usually and unexpected issues that can factor in, do your due diligence and find out the real costs before jumping in. Of course if you're avoiding a $500K mortgage you'll have some free cash to pay those costs.. but it's not 'free', esp if it's a sanctioned liveaboard location as opposed to what some call 'sneakaboard' living...


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

What about the hard water this time of year? And then what a heating bill could look like!..Dale


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## jambone (Jun 15, 2012)

At our club right now there are several liveaboards year round. They use water bubblers and shrink wrap their decks. I believe most of them use electric heaters powered by the shore. I will definitely check out the MKII.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I don't understand the financial side. 
If you have a 100g to buy a boat it seems like that would make a good down payment on a house. If you have to borrow the money it probably will not work out due to live-aboard and insurance and repair issues.
If you have 100k but no income you will need to save a significant piece of your inheritance for lots and lots of expenses you may not have thought of yet.

You came to a sailing enthusiasts site but indicate you really would prefer a house.
Do you like sailboats or are you just looking for a cheap place to live.
If the latter a powerboat would give you more room a condo even more room.
Based on your brief question we don't have enough information to give you any useful advice.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Over the summer we bought a 2003 Bene 381 for around $75,000 including refit. So I think your budget is perfectly reasonable. But I have zero experience cruising in cold water, and have no idea the sutability of them for up north. I stop sailing when it gets below 50.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

Beneteau 36CC is an awesome liveaboard and well with in your budget. same hull as the 361 so it will sail well, as well as a decent aft berth for two, head one step away, and a nice salon, kitchen and you still have a vberth that will close off when either need a get away.

best of luck


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Do it while you can. Your plan is a reasonable adventure, without going overboard and attempting to sail around the world. When you want to move ashore, you can.

As far as living aboard over the winter, you'll need to be very mindful of having insulation on the boat, or it will condensate and mold can grow where you can't reach to clean it. Think about having a dehumidifier running 24/7. 

After than, snowy and icy docks are probably the next biggest hazard.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

My wife and I love our benny 361.
However, as a live aboard I would like a berth that TWO people can get in and out of comfortably and with out the elbow in the gut or the knee in the groin. 
Our aft berth is plenty big enough for two, but it is not easy for the person on the inside to get out of the berth with out making life miserable for their partner.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Have a look at a Nonsuch 33 or 36 for a very comfy liveaboard and cruiser in your price range. We had an Espar heater when we lived aboard in NYC for two winters. We were much happier with our heating situation than people with electric were.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

davidpm said:


> I don't understand the financial side.
> If you have a 100g to buy a boat it seems like that would make a good down payment on a house. If you have to borrow the money it probably will not work out due to live-aboard and insurance and repair issues.
> If you have 100k but no income you will need to save a significant piece of your inheritance for lots and lots of expenses you may not have thought of yet.
> 
> ...


If he is in Toronto I can understand thinking 100,000 is cheap. I don't understand Canadian real estate prices, they seem un-sustainably high. I watch some of the Canadian home shows and think $750,000 for that? I would not want to be buying real estate in Canada right now.



jambone said:


> Sorry, let me add a little more. Eventually, yes we would like a house, but we'd like to take 6 or 7 years and liveaboard and cruise the lakes. I am fairly handy and would do many repairs on my own. We would take out a loan to finance the boat, but hopefully pay it off within 7 years, then, we would either sell and use that money towards a house, or continue living aboard. I already sail a 29' Bayfield and love it, and would like to try living aboard for awhile but the 29' cannot support us happily aboard.


I think the Bayfield should work for a while, I say just move aboard, it is not like you will likely be able to just sell it quickly anyway. They are pretty spacious boats for the size. Lots of people living on less, and you have it already.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

You're able to get a $100,000 loan for a sailboat made in the 90s and they're okay with you living on it? Wow. I think your hardest part of the plan is over.

A slip for a longer boat, and liveaboard fees, and maintenance & repairs, and if your significant-other will require a storage facility for off-season clothes, those are all costs that take a fair sized dent out of whatever income you have. 

It's very rewarding though, if you can work it all out. I'd suggest buying a well-known boat whose manufacturer is still in business (Catalina, benetaeu, etc)


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Jambone : I've lived aboard near Toronto for 15 years. It can be done comfortably and with little more expense than the usual docking/club fee's but ..... its becoming more difficult and a few places are talking about getting rid of existing liveaboards. With two liveaboard boat fires in the last week and three drowings last winter its becoming a high profile issue. Make sure you have a place for winter before you spend that 100k.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

boatpoker said:


> Jambone : I've lived aboard near Toronto for 15 years. It can be done comfortably and with little more expense than the usual docking/club fee's but ..... its becoming more difficult and a few places are talking about getting rid of existing liveaboards. With two liveaboard boat fires in the last week and three drowings last winter its becoming a high profile issue. Make sure you have a place for winter before you spend that 100k.


well if he gets kicked out just head down the Erie canal and start a new adventure!


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> well if he gets kicked out just head down the Erie canal and start a new adventure!


I spent all of August in your wonderful canal system. He should be so lucky.

I posted a little article on my site ....

Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

jambone said:


> We cannot afford a house right now, but would like to spend around 100,000 on a comfortable sailboat to live on... Any advice?...


Yes, get married with a prenup or have a partnership agreement drawn up. If you are ready to live together on a small boat, you are ready to make a commitment. If not, you should rent a house together and buy a cheap boat, or only one owns the boat and the other pays rent, so the eventual break up will go smoothly.

I advise marriage. Marriage will likely improve your relationship and you in the process. If your girlfriend is about your age, she deserves clarity, too. Piss or get off the pot. The clock is ticking. If the two of you are not sure about each other and you have already known each other for a year or more, you should probably break up and look for someone more suitable. Life is short.

In fact, while I appreciate your wanderlust, you are already 26, so you might want to buy a house instead, concentrate on your career, and buy a boat with your savings when you are ready.

You can't be Peter Pan forever...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

When I got married at 26, it ended at 39. Stay on the pot and piss as long as you like.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd double check the finances, considering that the boat will lose value over time. Unless you have a short (equals high payment) mortgage, what you owe will match what the boat is worth. You may not have any value when you sell the boat to get a down payment on a house.

Coupled with this is the timing. Your money doesn't come out of the boat until you sell it, which will get in the way when you find a house you love for a good price. The house seller isn't going to wait 3 to 9 months while you sell the boat.

Other than that, I love the idea.

People sense change the most. (A hand in warm water will start to not notice the temperature.) Start with a smaller boat and quickly move up to bigger. It will seem like quite a treat, and be a happy time.

Regards,
Brad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

jambone said:


> ....As for marrying the girlfriend, ca'mon! I can drag that out a little while longer!....


Would it surprise you to learn that James is a divorce lawyer? Needs inventory. :laugher


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

> I am 26, and seriously considering moving aboard with my girlfriend. *Any advice*?


Yes... Leave the GF on shore.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Definitely go for it. I managed to stay free until 30. I was/am fiercely independent. Unfortunately/fortunately I met a woman with my same sense of independence and adventure.

We now happily live aboard our boat in Portland, Maine. We did the house thing, almost bought a marina and then went through our mid life crisis. We had a few close friends our age pass away and it made us realize there could be a bus out there with our names on it. So we have been living on our Caliber for 2 1/2 years preparing her and our cruising kitty to go long term cruising.

We love our 12v diesel hydronic heating system. The boat is very evenly heated and very comfy. I am sitting in shorts and T-shirt right now while typing this. It is in the 20s outside. We can use it at anchor so it greatly extends our cruising range from April to December.

Saving by getting an older boat is not bad as long as the boat does not need a complete refit. We went a little smaller and newer as we had a good idea what we wanted after owning a Pearson 28 and an Ericson 35.


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## mdi (Jan 15, 2009)

Bene505 said:


> I'd double check the finances, considering that the boat will lose value over time.


You do need to understand how marketable the boat you purchase will be when you are ready to sell - buying a house or trading up for another boat, whatever. Some designs hold their value longer than others, multihulls tend to be those types. However they are going to cost more to berth.

Good Luck


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd like to add another point... diesel heat.

I spend time on the boat on weekends in the winter, doing cleaning, repairs, upgrades, whatever. I find myself wishing for a diesel heater. I think if I lived aboard, I'd definitely get one. And it would be the kind that sucks in flue-warmed air through an extra tube-in-the-flue, then exhaust goes out the normal part of the flue. Then there's no moisture build-up from exhaust gasses going into the boat.

Interior heat slowly pumps moisture - from cooking, showering, breathing, etc. -- out of the boat. (The warmed air absorbes extra moisture, and as that warmed air flows out a vent or cowling, out goes the moisture.)

Being cozy and warm has a lot of value. And women seems especially fond of it.

Regards,
Brad


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

jambone said:


> Thanks for all the advice though guys, this has been very informative and has helped shape my decision making process.


Good luck. At your age I lived aboard a 22' O'Day with my wife. So I've got nothing to say.
I was very skinny in those days.

A couple more data points before you pull the switch.
Check on rules for loans and insurance when it come to live-aboard.

If you have a dirt side address you can use, sometimes those rules can be bent but often there are issues if your lender or insurer knows you plan on living aboard.

I'm sure you got pre-approved already but as you go for an older boat the lenders will require collateral other than the boat.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I understand the heat issue, 
but I have to ask, what do you plan on doing about fresh water? 
There is a local marina here that bubbles the docks as well and they invite live-aboard but I always wondered what they did for water.
Certainly you have to winterize your systems even with heat on board.
And what about the head?
Are you going to use the shore facilities every time? 
Even if you could use your head, how are you going to pump it?
I can't imagine having to bundle up and walk through snow and ice just to use the head or take a shower.
Maybe you will have to keep a bucket on board for emergencies.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I visited one liveaboard community that has a fresh water line running below the ice. I believe it had a T connector going to each boat. Not sure how it got above the water and into each boat. Perhaps up over the side and with it always slightly on? Perhaps through a through hull and into a sink drain?

Regards,
Brad


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

We have a hose run from the dock house that is capped on both ends and submerged. We pull up both ends and fill the tanks. Many live aboards here share the hoses and tee of at their boat. With 175 gal capacity we do not fill very often.

We walk the dog every morning regardless so stopping off at the shower is easy. Our boat is 50 ft. from the dock house so using the shore toilet is not a big deal. Obviously you go right before bed and try to make it through the night. You can always pee in a bucket and empty it in the morning if needed.


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## Waterdawg43 (Oct 13, 2012)

sailortjk1 said:


> I understand the heat issue,
> but I have to ask, what do you plan on doing about fresh water?
> There is a local marina here that bubbles the docks as well and they invite live-aboard but I always wondered what they did for water.
> Certainly you have to winterize your systems even with heat on board.
> ...


That is EXACTLY what they do at the marinas I am looking at. Showers and Head are not used on the boat at all from October through May (April if I'm lucky).

Fresh water is available when ever its not freezing out.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

sailortjk1 said:


> I understand the heat issue,
> but I have to ask, what do you plan on doing about fresh water?
> There is a local marina here that bubbles the docks as well and they invite live-aboard but I always wondered what they did for water.
> Certainly you have to winterize your systems even with heat on board.
> ...


Normally they have "water parties" where they bring out water hoses and fill tanks before it freezes. As long as you keep it over 32 you don't have winterize. There are also portable pump outs, but that is the hardest as lots of places don't offer it. Showering can be a cause of a lot of moisture so people often plan their morning to shower on the way out or after the gym. Not to bad but hey it is not for everyone. And thank goodness otherwise there would be no room.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

my advice,... don't get her pregnant,... then what everyone else said...


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## Waterdawg43 (Oct 13, 2012)

treilley said:


> We love our 12v diesel hydronic heating system. The boat is very evenly heated and very comfy. I am sitting in shorts and T-shirt right now while typing this. It is in the 20s outside. We can use it at anchor so it greatly extends our cruising range from April to December.


What kind of system do you have? Details please...lot's of details.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

RealST said:


> What kind of system do you have? Details please...lot's of details.


Here is my write-up on the installation.

Diesel Hydronic Heater Installation


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## Arjen (Jan 18, 2012)

jambone said:


> Sorry, let me add a little more. Eventually, yes we would like a house, but we'd like to take 6 or 7 years and liveaboard and cruise the lakes. I am fairly handy and would do many repairs on my own. We would take out a loan to finance the boat, but hopefully pay it off within 7 years, then, we would either sell and use that money towards a house, or continue living aboard. I already sail a 29' Bayfield and love it, and would like to try living aboard for awhile but the 29' cannot support us happily aboard.


Boats are like cars. They cost money to maintain and still lose value regardless. 
The only way for a boat to not lose value is to buy one that has already lost all value. 
And thats what i would do probably if i were you. Buy one for 20k, use your handiness to upgrade it to your liking. Meanwhile save money for your house in 7 years while gaining interest on your savings instead of paying interest on your loan. 
Old boats are not at all flimsy or anything. Their interior probably just looks a bit less fancy.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

RealST said:


> What kind of system do you have? Details please...lot's of details.


I have an espar D4 forced air diesel. Also toasty warm!


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## mdi (Jan 15, 2009)

Arjen said:


> Boats are like cars. They cost money to maintain and still lose value regardless.
> The only way for a boat to not lose value is to buy one that has already lost all value.
> And thats what i would do probably if i were you. Buy one for 20k, use your handiness to upgrade it to your liking. Meanwhile save money for your house in 7 years while gaining interest on your savings instead of paying interest on your loan.
> Old boats are not at all flimsy or anything. Their interior probably just looks a bit less fancy.


The market is right for this kind of thinking. I don't necessarily agree with the dollar value suggested but the logic is good, right boat - could work out very nicely. You could break even, if you do not count the interest you would have earned had the money been in the bank. Again it goes back to knowing
which boat(s) will be marketable when the time comes to sell along with this notion.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

mdi said:


> T if you do not count the interest you would have earned had the money been in the bank.


you mean that whopping .4% banks are currently paying on 2 year CDs.....

I would rather have the use of the boat, for the $200- $400 a year you would get in interest


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