# Hand Bearing Compass Recommendations?



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Don't know as I _need_ a hand bearing compass, but it seems like it'd be a handy device to have on board. Problem is: Which are of good quality and accurate? How much do you have to spend to get a good one? I notice some are lit, for night time use. How do they keep the lighting circuit from inducing deviation? (Tho I imagine, if the lighting is via LED, maybe there wouldn't be enough current flow to induce appreciable deviation?)

Recommendations?

TIA,
Jim


----------



## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

I am very partial to the one originally made by Sestrel and now made by Sirs in England. It is called the Radiant and the ones I have use a beta light to illuminate the card. That’s a small capsule that glows in the dark so batteries or errors from a magnetic field are not a problem. One is mounted near the helm in a rubber holder and can be used as a backup steering compass and the other is mounted at the chart table in a very nice teak box with bronze hardware. It serves as my telltale while I am below.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have and use a Plastimo Iris 50, which is a hockey puck style handbearing compass.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> I have and use a Plastimo Iris 50, which is a hockey puck style handbearing compass.


Looks like you have to hold that one right up to your eye to use it? Will that work for somebody who needs, but does not normally wear or have upon his person, reading glasses? (Yeah, I'm being stubborn .)

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jim-

You'd be better off with the Plastimo 100... Bigger numbers, easier for the presbyopic sailors... 

Or, for just $995 more, you can get one eye LASIK surgery...


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Jim-
> 
> You'd be better off with the Plastimo 100... Bigger numbers, easier for the presbyopic sailors...


Hmmm... It's unclear to me how that's used as a hand bearing compass. I see no "sights."

What the world obviously needs is a hand bearing compass that allows one to "sight" on ones "target" and lock the compass' reading, so one can then position the compass such that the bearing can easily and conveniently be read.

Jim


----------



## US25 (Jul 20, 2007)

There is a Puck style like sailingdog mentioned on ebay. I just might have to bid..

Puck Style


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Jim,
The small boat sailor has a bit of a conundrum. If he can mount a pelorus, which resembles a compass or gyro repeater, he can take relative bearings. The pelorus may be gimballed, will be accurate to one degree, and has sights that are aimed at the object being observed. Offshore, it is valuable for taking azimuths of the sun. Where to mount it so as to have an unobstructed view of most quadrants is an issue as well. And, since the pelorus only gives you a relative bearing you must know exactly what course you are on as you take the bearing. It is not so bad with two people. The helmsman can just call out "mark" when he's right on course and the navigator, looking through the sights of the pelorus, notes the relative bearing at that instance.

Most of the hand bearing compasses are only graduated to five degrees accuracy and, given their size, that is about how accurate you'll be. Deviation is not generally a factor as you commonly use the compass away from metal objects. The pelorus does offer the potential for greater accuracy, if you can overcome the mounting issues.

I believe Valiente has a pelorus on his boat, he'll probably wander along through this thread before long and you can ask him how he likes it. Camaraderie, when he bought his Tayana, had pelorus stands that were installed port and starboard in the cockpit. He took the two pelorus' off and duct taped a GPS to each one. Averaging the two readings he gets usually puts him right at the wheel, but not always. (vbg)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Camaraderie, when he bought his Tayana, had pelorus stands that were installed port and starboard in the cockpit. He took the two pelorus' off and duct taped a GPS to each one. Averaging the two readings he gets usually puts him right at the wheel, but not always. (vbg)


ROFL... I thought he had GPS antenna mounted on the main mast and mizzen as well...so he'd have both the latitude and longitude of the boat averaged..


----------



## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Sailaway21,
I have a large pelorus and find it’s very useful for swinging ship and making my compass card but as a bearing instrument its not very useful nor is it as precise as the graduations would suggest. As you point out because it only takes a relative bearing you need the ships heading to get a bearing you can plot. If you are single-handed the boat usually doesn’t stay on course long enough to read the steering compass after you shot the bearing and before the boat has turned somewhat. Even if you sail with a crew most small boat crews will have a problem coordinating the use of a pelorus. 

The fact the pelorus card is in degrees doesn’t mean much if the difference in course between taking the bearing and reading the steering compass is greater then the graduations on the pelorus. At anchor its OK for checking to see if you have dragged but a good hand-bearing compass is able to do that also so I don’t see much need for a permanently mounted pelorus.

If you want to round a point by using a horizontal angle between landmarks after setting a minimum distance off I think you will find the sextant is better suited to this then taking two quick sights with a pelorus. No math and an obvious answer to the question are we too close to the point. The sextant also can measure vertical angles so rounding a point with a single landmark or headland of know height is practical and neither the hand-bearing compass or a pelorus can do that. I have a Heath sextant on board for this use so that my Cassens & Plath stays safely below and doesn’t get used by anyone except myself. Using a sextant this way is good practice and the crew will have an easier time learning to shoot celestial bodies with a sextant if they are already familiar with using one for coastal piloting.

The hand-bearing compass I use is heavy and has inertia so it’s easy to keep it stable. You use a prism to split your line of sight so you see a full view of the horizon and an image of the compass card at the same time. It also has a glazed strip on the handle so you can write down the bearings of each object and with my lack of memory nowadays that alone makes the Radiant worth the price. In harbor I write the anchor bearings on the handle and for the remainder of my stay I know if I am dragging anchor without referring to the chart or my deck log.

One way to get the best of both worlds and have a pelorus that gives you magnetic bearings would be to get a compass similar to the Sestrel Moore that has a sighting vane attachment. I am considering mounting one of them on my sea hood.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pelorus...isn't that some kind of dinasour. (G)


----------



## tommyt (Sep 21, 2002)

I have one of the cheap Davis handhelds on board and it is a piece of crap. Someone dropped it (yes, things do get dropped on board) and one of the plastic sights broke off. Now a tool for kids to play with! I would go with something that will do the job AND take a beating. 

If you have not already covered your binocular buy you can also get a set with a built in compass and cover both bases at once. I find a set one of the most used tools onboard.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I (sigh) agree with SD, on this one and recommend the Plastimo one.

To me its one of the best as you don't need glasses to look at, aproach it from your eye, aim, look thru magnifying glass built in. Submersible, water proof, shock proof, child proof get some velco and store it on the wall. Even comes with a string to attach it around the neck. And come in many colours.

Simple light efficient. And no you don't need glasses to see it and if you're short sighted works the same...where did you get that idea??


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Good post, Robert. I'd say you summed things up well. i'd throw ya some rep points but, apparently the system is not designed to reward people who know what they're talking about-won't let me do it.

A rarely found device, used on merchant ships, is the alidade. It substitutes for the bearing circle on the gyro repeater and has a telescope and an adjustable prism. It will bring that distant lighthouse up close as well as allow you to take an azimuth on a dim star. I liked them as a young man, when everybody else said they were for the old guys with bad eyes, now that I'm an old guy....


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> I (sigh) agree with SD, on this one and recommend the Plastimo one.


Very well.



Giulietta said:


> To me its one of the best as you don't need glasses to look at, aproach it from your eye, aim, look thru magnifying glass built in.


Ah, so you don't need to hold it right up to your eye to read it?



Giulietta said:


> Simple light efficient. And no you don't need glasses to see it and if you're short sighted works the same...where did you get that idea??


Well, "short-sighted" means being able to see well close up. I'm more like "medium-sighted" (probably from too many years looking at a computer screen over an arm's length away, and watching TV). I can see well at distances from about 1 meter, out to about... say somewhere around... 10 meters or so? For longer distances a mild corrective lense sharpens things up significantly. Under 1 meter or so, maybe 600cm, I need reading glasses. (As in: It's all a blur.)

As to where I got the idea that it had to be read close up: http://www.plastimousa.com/compass_iris.htm

Jim


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I have the crappy Davis one, as yet undropped, but I got this recently:
http://www.suunto.com/suunto/main/p...<>ast_id=1408474395903526&bmUID=1185143044422









It has a recording barometer that I use frequently, and a bearing compass that I have to use by eye because it needs to be at least 1.5 meters off my steel deck to work! However, by using other methods to compare, like "parking" off a known nav aid and comparing the angles on a paper chart, it appears that I can get within two to four degrees of accuracy, which is fine if it keeps me from having to go down into the pilothouse to check the more "official" binnacle compass and fluxgate.

Besides, if I have to take to a liferaft, it's already attached!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jim-

It really depends on how far "medium" is...  I'm nearsighted and have no problems with it...


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Jim-
> 
> It really depends on how far "medium" is...  I'm nearsighted and have no problems with it...


Well, for reference: I have to hold _Boater's Bowditch_  17" (43cm) away to read its print clearly. It starts to blur, moved any closer. At half the distance it's probably unreadable for me.

Jim


----------



## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Not really Necessary*

Hello,

I have a hand bearing compass. I bought it in 2003 when I bought my first sailboat. I used it once then, and since then it has sat on the boat collecting dust.

I do my navigation / piloting with a GPS and my eye balls. Honestly, for the type of sailing I do (day sails, weekend and some longer, trips in the Long Island Sound) even GPS is overkill. I'm never more than 8 miles from shore, there are lots of bouys and other nav aids. You don't need a hand bearing compass when you can sail 200 yards from a bouy, and confirm that you are where you think you are on the chart.

I have two GPS's on board, a 5" color unit that runs off the ships electrical system, and a Garmin hand held that uses batteries. The GPS confirms that I am headed in the direction I want to go. If I am going somwhere, I will record my position on the chart with a pencil, including course, speed, and time.

How many of you actually USE your hand bearing compass today?

Barry


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Oh-Oh Barry....now you've gone and done it!! (G)


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

I think "necessary" is a matter of perspective. If you believe that navigating by GPS alone is and always will be sufficient, then no: You probably have no use for a hand bearing compass. But if you believe that being able to perform traditional DR and piloting is important, both of which require the ability to generate the occasional fix, then a hand bearing compass is pretty handy. Perhaps indepensible if your ship's compass is bulkhead-mounted, as is the case on most (?) tiller-operated small sail craft.

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well said SEMIJim...


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Well said SEMIJim...


Thanks 

So what do you think, SD: Will I be able to use that Plastimo Iris 50 having to hold it about a foot-and-a-half in front of me? In the pictures on Plastimo's site, it looks like they're holding it just about right up to their faces.

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jim-

best bet is to go to West Marine and try it out.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I was going to go GPS shopping but I got thinking about it. The way I figure it, with all the GPS units that Cam has on the s/v Automat, he'll not need nearly half of them once he goes a R/Ving. That's assuming he shells out the $9.87 for a Rand-McNally Road Atlas. I could probably get by just fine with the model he uses in the head. My needs are simple. I just need to know if I'm in s*** or deep s***. All I need to find out is whether that model will work with my existing paper charts or if I need the ones like Cam has, that come on a roll. (lol)


----------



## Maxo (May 29, 2007)

*Suunto Commander*

I have two hand bearing compasses on my boat - a Suunto Commander and a Silva KB20.

I really recommend the Suunto Commander - it is has large numbers, is well damped and stabilised and has a good mount. But most important it has a lock, so once you have taken the bearing you can lock the rose on the bearing for future reference. This is like a mechanical memory. Very very useful.

The Silva is a good and very, very accurate compass, but difficult to use in anger. It can take bearing to an accuracy of half a degree.

Maybe things are different in the US, but I cannot see how a GPS can replace a compass? A compass used properly is indispensable for prudent navigation.

Max, Cape Town, South Africa


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Jim-
> 
> best bet is to go to West Marine and try it out.


Thanks for the suggestion, but West Marine's price is high ($107 vs. an average of around $80 on-line), so I'd be unlikely to buy there. And I don't believe in using a store for examining a product when I know I'm not going to buy it there. (I find that often. Even in comparison to some local stores. Which is why I tend not to shop at West Marine.)

Perhaps I'll forgo this item until and unless I run across some other (local) sailors that have one-or-another of them. I guess there are some things that just can't be resolved on-line .

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Maxo said:


> I have two hand bearing compasses on my boat - a Suunto Commander and a Silva KB20.


Thanks for the suggestions, Maxo.

There are apparently no local retailers that carry Suunto anything. Suunto _says_ Amazon does, but Amazon says it does not. At least not the Commander. Of the on-line retailers Suunto lists, other than Amazon, I recognize REI (with whom I've yet to do business), and that's about it. Google turns up nothing for the Silva KB20, but it does come up with a KB20 for Suunto.



Maxo said:


> The Silva is a good and very, very accurate compass, but difficult to use in anger. It can take bearing to an accuracy of half a degree.


"In anger?"



Maxo said:


> Maybe things are different in the US, but I cannot see how a GPS can replace a compass? A compass used properly is indispensable for prudent navigation.


No, nothing's different. It's simply a matter of personal preference.

Jim


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

BarryL said:


> How many of you actually USE your hand bearing compass today?
> 
> Barry


I use it occasionaly to entertain our guest's.
Hand it to them and ask them to take a bearing.
I play along and its good for about ten minutes, than it goes back on the nav desk where it sits.

I cruise Lake Michigan, all navigating is done with the Chartplotter.
My favorite thing to do is to set a go to on the plotter and have the auto pilot steer to the go to. Simple. Done.


----------



## Maxo (May 29, 2007)

Hi Jim

You are right, the KB20 is also Suunto - I was confused - that is what happens when I think about boats whilst I am supposed to be working!



SEMIJim said:


> There are apparently no local retailers that carry Suunto anything. Suunto _says_ Amazon does, but Amazon says it does not. At least not the Commander.
> 
> Jim


Have a look at http://www.suunto.com/suunto/main/p...<>ast_id=1408474395903524&bmUID=1182183535045

This is a really great compass and very easy to use. In the photo on the above website the compass is still attached to the mount. You lift it off the mount to use it. The red thing iis to lock the rose.



SEMIJim said:


> "In anger?"
> 
> Jim


I meant when things are tough - ie on a small boat with a bit of swell running.

In South Africa a sailing boat over 6 meters (20 feet) needs to have both a steering compass and a hand bearing compass to go to sea.

Regards

Max
Cape Town


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Maxo said:


> I meant when things are tough - ie on a small boat with a bit of swell running.


Okay. I thought perhaps that was what you meant 

Jim


----------



## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

*Binoculars with Built-in Compass*

I use binoculars with a built-in compass. It is very easy to find and identify objects and to shoot accurate bearings of them, and since the binoculars are always in the cockpit with me, so is my hand bearing compass.


----------



## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

The best hand bearing compass is the Autohelm personal compass now known as the Raytheon something or other. I've had one for twenty years and it still works. Only replaced the battery once too. You can take five or six bearings and recall them when you go below to plot. Amazing little thing, has a fluxgate compass in it. Here's one on E bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Raytheon-Z074-P...g-Compass_W0QQitemZ120144099452QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Hmmm... Well, binoculars with a built-in compass would certainly solve the focusing question, wouldn't they?  Then again: I kind of like the simplicity and light weight of Plastimo's Iris 50.

Decisions, decisions.

I suppose I should look into binocular/compass solutions. 

Until I reach a decision, I guess I'll have to rely on charts + GPS.

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

REI is a great place to buy from... they have very good customer service... especially if you are a co-op member. I've been a member for about 20 years.


----------



## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I have the autohelm and it is handy device. I use it below lay it against the fiddle on the nav station and it shows me the ship's heading because it is rectagular and not round like some other hand beathing compasses I have. With a fluxgate KVH I hardly use it as it is also connected to the plotter so that read the ships headind on the plotter and shows a heading line as well.

jef
sv shiva


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Vasco said:


> The best hand bearing compass is the Autohelm personal compass now known as the Raytheon something or other.


Thanks for the suggestion, Vasco. Looks interesting. (Tho that eBay seller's postitive rating of only 90 isn't encouraging.) Sure would be handy to be able to "point-and-shoot" multiple bearings rapidly. But I think, for my purposes, I'll stick with old-fashioned compass technology .

The idea, you see, is to be able to do DR and Piloting using "traditional," un-powered tools.

I think that Plastimo Iris 50 would fill the bill nicely. I just have to figure out whether I'll actually be able to use it.

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Might like this beastie then.... KVH Datascope.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Might like this beastie then.... KVH Datascope.


LOL! Yes, interesting looking device. Bet it's got a price to match, too . (/me looks...) Hahaha! $311 to $350 via Froogle. I think I'll pass .

(Would be cool to have one, tho...)

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What do you mean? You have a budget??? LOL... don't we all... and got to get the admiral's approval in triplicate usually.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

What the hell is wrong with you???? (G)

I left you 3 days ago and you still haven't made up your mind???

Get the damn thingy you look thru, iot allows you to see fine, you can even look at it from above. I use it to see where the competition is....

JUST GET IT...and be done with...


BY THE WAY...you're now officially an AFOC!!!!! one that can't make up his mind...a rare breed (VBG)


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> What the hell is wrong with you???? (G)


I get that a lot. Can you believe it? 



Giulietta said:


> I left you 3 days ago and you still haven't made up your mind???


I was waiting for _somebody_ that has used one of these puppies to tell me "Yes, SEMIJim, you _can_ sight thru one of these and read the bearing with it 45 cm away from your eyes" or "No, SEMIJim, you have to have it right up to your eye, just like on Plastimo's web site." But SD won't commit and you... well, _you_ left me!



Giulietta said:


> Get the damn thingy you look thru, iot allows you to see fine, you can even look at it from above. I use it to see where the competition is....
> 
> JUST GET IT...and be done with...


Alright, alright already!



Giulietta said:


> BY THE WAY...you're now officially an AFOC!!!!! one that can't make up his mind...a rare breed (VBG)


Yay!

I think?

So whadda ya'll think, should I get it in blue, or yellow? (EBG)

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yellow... it is easier to spot when you drop it overboard.. IIRC, they float. Don't ask how I know, cause mine is blue.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Yellow... it is easier to spot when you drop it overboard.. IIRC, they float. Don't ask how I know, cause mine is blue.


shhhh! be vewy, vewy quiet. i'm hunting portagees


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... don't hunt portagees... they're not good to eat. 

BTW, the reason I know the Iris 50's float is I found a yellow one floating on Buzzards Bay, retrieved it and gave it to one of my crew.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> LOL... don't hunt portagees... they're not good to eat.


They don't appear to be biting, anyway 



sailingdog said:


> BTW, the reason I know the Iris 50's float is I found a yellow one floating on Buzzards Bay, retrieved it and gave it to one of my crew.


Well, Plastimo does claim they float . That's the reason I'd prefer the yellow--just in case. But the colour's not a show-stopper.

I figure on going over to a local West Marine, check one out and, if it works for me, asking if they'll deal a bit. I've found most stores are willing to move a bit on price if you approach them about it the right way. I don't mind paying a bit more and rewarding a local store with my business, for being local and having stock. Otherwise I guess I'll give Defender a call and find out what their returns policy is.

Jim


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Giu said...
 
" Get the damn thingy you look thru, idiot... allows you to see fine, you can even look at it from above*. I use it to see where the competition is...."

*Oh...so that's why the bearings on yours only go to 45 degrees relative!!
At least you never have to turn around to take a bearing!!


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

*Resolution!*

Y'all will no doubt be happy to know I _finally_ pulled the trigger on a Plastimo Iris 50 over at the West Marine near our boat a couple weeks ago. Datapoint: They matched Defender's price .

I have no problem reading it, either right up to my eye (even with my driving glasses on--which surprised me) or from above.

I haven't had an opportunity to use it for taking bearings on competitors or for taking bearings for plotting a position, yet, but I have found two uses for it: 1. Used it to verify the accuracy of the compass on a friends powerboat  (just on one bearing) and 2. Used it to locate a race course mark from the bearing indicated by my GPS .

Mildly amusing story: Wore it whilst crewing on a J36 during a race. We were talking about it when somebody half-jokingly demanded "So what's our bearing now?" I put it up to my eye, found a point on the boat I figured would give me a line parallel to the boats axis, took the bearing and called it out. The crew-member manning the mainsheet replied "When you called out that bearing, that was exactly what the ship's compass was reading." He almost seemed a bit surprised 

Thanks, everybody, for your comments.

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... glad to help.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Might like this beastie then.... KVH Datascope.


Ohhh Doggie!
I don't know how I missed this one (actually I do, I was broke) but in the process of buying a $90 VHF that I really do need (the 6 channels my old one get's work fine, but..) I saw this little baby on sale for $321 which is a slight mark-down from just expensive.AZIMUTH DATASCOPE 01-0162 Shop.Sailnet.com - sailing resources, shopping, sail, blogs

I've got to have one of those and I'll bet you do too. If somebody will send me about $200 I'll pay you back when I get ahead or you can borrow it all winter.

Actually, if it's a quality product, it is well worth the money for it's capabilities. Be sure to go to the manufacturer's web-site to read the review of it by Practical Sailor.

A nice touch by sailnet of including all the manufacturer's web-sites with each product too. I'd given up paging through their catalog-this means I now have no excuse and will probably remain broke.


----------



## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

BarryL said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a hand bearing compass. I bought it in 2003 when I bought my first sailboat. I used it once then, and since then it has sat on the boat collecting dust.
> 
> ...


I'm with Barry. I have always had a hand bearing compass onboard but I can't remember using it ever except to show how they work. I normally use a GPS to take fixes. If I want to work fast I put in a known point as a waypoint and just get the range and bearing to it from the GPA and plot that with a compass and parallel rule. I find it quicker and easier than plotting lat and longs. If I really wanted to visually fix I would prefer to use horizontal sextant angles and a three arm protractor. I have found the hand bearing compasses to be almost impossible to use. For risk of collision I use relative bearings. I won't throw the compass overboard yet but it sure doesn't see much use.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

What happened to semi jim haven't seen him in months.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Plumper,
Check out the KVH Datascope and you might rethink the efficacy of horizontal sextant angles! It's an alidade for the boater!

Free,
I know. I'll bet he's back in the spring or when the weather breaks anyway. Probably has a life or something.


----------



## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

sailaway21 said:


> Plumper,
> Check out the KVH Datascope and you might rethink the efficacy of horizontal sextant angles! It's an alidade for the boater!


I bought a Datascope a couple years ago to use on the sail training ship to teach fixing. It was next to useless. It required constant fiddling to get ranges. It was slewed by any ferrous metal anywhere near it. The optics were poor and pushing the right buttons was a chore while looking through the sight. It was very unpopular with the trainees. I don't recommend it. Even a plain old bearing compass worked better.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Plumper,
Thanks for the info on it. Real world experiences count the most. Practical Sailor liked it though they're going to do an evaluation of it versus stabilized binoculars some time in the future. Their review is here: http://www.kvh.com/inthenews/pdf/PS0208_compass.pdf


----------



## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I agree with their assessment. It was accurate when calibrated and it is expensive. We found that it needed calibrating quite often and calibrating it was quite challenging on a moving deck. It seemed that once calibrated it was good to go provided you didn't move to a different spot to take your bearings. Of course we were using it on a steel hulled boat and that may have made things more challenging for it. For the price, I would rather have a couple of the other ones and a set of binoculars.


----------



## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

A lot of you are relying on the GPS. I've three of them go belly up on me. So I do practice the "OLD" way of doing the business of navigating. Besides that I do challenge myself in getting a better fix Then any electronic piece of equipment. Plus I work hard to pass on those skills to my students also. 
Have seen to many "Captains" who rely totally on the GPS and if that unit breaks down, they are royally screwed because they have forgotten what they have learned to acquire their licenses. And I just laugh   

Just to add: For those of you who are only doing day sailing in lakes, bays & sounds; the primary navigation tool is the MK 1 eyeball. Which is good enough in those areas or on the bayous, ICW & Rivers in most cases.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Boasun said:


> A lot of you are relying on the GPS. I've three of them go belly up on me. So I do practice the "OLD" way of doing the business of navigating. Besides that I do challenge myself in getting a better fix Then any electronic piece of equipment. Plus I work hard to pass on those skills to my students also.
> Have seen to many "Captains" who rely totally on the GPS and if that unit breaks down, they are royally screwed because they have forgotten what they have learned to acquire their licenses. And I just laugh


WELL MADE POINT....

The compass is not there for use, but as a reliable usefull back up when all the electronic crap fails....and I don't care how many years you sailed, how many seas you crossed, how expereinced you are and how many people you taught...one day you will need it..believe me.

I have a hand compass too, and use it to take bearings on other boats, only for that....

But I am happy to know that once my GPS goes, I have it there...albeit the weight...


----------



## XTR (Feb 28, 2007)

I like my Weems & Plath hockey puck.


----------



## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

My favorite is the compass built into my binocs. Since getting them my other hand bearing compass is a backup. I just wish my stabilized binocs had a built in compass.


----------



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

SEMIJim said:


> What the world obviously needs is a hand bearing compass that allows one to "sight" on ones "target" and lock the compass' reading, so one can then position the compass such that the bearing can easily and conveniently be read.


I have an old Suunto that I got used and have had for over ten years. I wouldn't swap it for anything else I've seen. It looks like this:









It has a trigger that, when pulled, locks the card as the sight is taken and holds it for as long as is needed. The card, when exposed to light, retains it's own luminesence for quite a time (30 minutes) and is easy to read at night.

It fits on a bracket on the bulkhead at the chart table which holds it facing exactly forward so it doubles as a steering compass. I made a second bracket and mounted it in my cabin so that when I'm nervous of the watch-keeper, I can easily check the heading from my bunk.

There may be newer models available from Suunto with locking cards, give them a try.

Andre

Aw heck, I've just realised how old this thread is . . . . SEMIjim probably doesn't need this anymore


----------



## billyg (Jun 1, 2000)

For a sighting compass, hand held, with the ability to vary the sights and lock down the compass bearing/needle, use as a reflecting mirror as well as a sextant--there is one and only one - Brunton Geologist compass- available in bearings or azimuth readings.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SEMIJim said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, Maxo.
> 
> There are apparently no local retailers that carry Suunto anything. Suunto _says_ Amazon does, but Amazon says it does not. At least not the Commander. Of the on-line retailers Suunto lists, other than Amazon, I recognize REI (with whom I've yet to do business), and that's about it. Google turns up nothing for the Silva KB20, but it does come up with a KB20 for Suunto.
> 
> ...


REI is an excellent store with quality equipment and reasonable prices.  If you shop there, don't make the same mistake I did, JOIN! I figured I would be there just for a few bike accessories so didn't bother.  Next thing I know I'm back and back again.  If I had joined in the first place I would have saved way more than the membership price.  Now I find they are the best price around for the 2 person kayak I want.  Now there is a compass worth and eyeball, I've just gotta join. BTW it is an employee owned company, you work there, your an owner. Nice concept!

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Checked REIs web site. They don't have the Commander or Binocs w/ compass.

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

sailaway21 said:


> Probably has a life or something.


You mean there is life other than Sail Net.


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

> SEMIjim probably doesn't need this anymore


Regardless, I thought you had good info.


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

And, It looks like it is still available.

Suunto - Home - SUUNTO COMMANDER - Marine Compasses


----------



## acgardiner (Apr 7, 2008)

*KVH Datascope? Forget It*

I bought a KVH Datascope several years ago and within three years some parts of the LCD characters started to drop out of the picture. When I called the product support line (after the warranty had expired) I was told it would be cheaper to buy a new one than repair it. Combine that with the ludicrous requirement to calibrate in eight directions and I say find something else!


----------



## kiprichard (Aug 1, 2007)

Had one - sold it! I use the one in the binnoculars. Way easier.


----------



## Chetco (May 24, 2010)

*Look INTO This*



SEMIJim said:


> Hmmm... It's unclear to me how that's used as a hand bearing compass. I see no "sights."
> 
> What the world obviously needs is a hand bearing compass that allows one to "sight" on ones "target" and lock the compass' reading, so one can then position the compass such that the bearing can easily and conveniently be read.
> 
> Jim


Jim:
Take a look at KVH's Data-Scope. That is exactly what you are suggesting. You hold the unit up to your eye, push a button and the compass bearing is right there. You know the old saying, "becareful of what you ask for!

Be well,
Bruce


----------

