# Drinkingwater while cruising?



## thebigblueroad (Apr 19, 2015)

Hello everybody!
Me and my girlfriend are planning to circumnavigate the globe, which includes a bit of planning. 

Anyhow, I am currently thinking about the water issue. I am currently thinking that 2x70L and a 200L watersack as a backup. What do people think about that? Is it enough? We will be crossing two big oceans and also try to avoid marinas and such to keep costs down.

I am also thinking about a watermaker as an additional backup. But I am also thinking that this will be used a bit of a last resort, not to generally filling the tanks, so the output can be minimal.

Do people have any recomendations of watermakers or drinkingwater solutions that they may have? What about a solar still?


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Drinking water is such a critical resource that I would rely on several different modes of collections. This is especially true if you'll be traveling to remote or low-development places. 

Primary (your water bladders/tanks) with a dockside fillup and filtering mechanism, secondary (a rainwater catchment system), tertiary (watermaker, but this is expensive and will break), and quaternary like a solar still or handheld watermaker to use in a survival situation (or when all others are broken/unavailable).


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

While people have made long passages with such small tankage it is unusual

I would never rely on a flexible bladder tank especially on a trade wind circumnavigation. The continuous rolling does them in with chafe pretty quickly. Days rather than weeks!

My current boat has 150 galls water tankage and this was the irreducible minimum on my checklist. The previous one had 500 galls and we showered crossing oceans.

I am a bit anti watermakers mostly because they seem to go wrong a lot. They also often require engine running which I abhor. 

Be ready to collect water when it rains. lips on the bimini with collection hoses. Bucket with a pipe connection in the bottom and a U shape cutout so it fits over the mast end of the boom.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't have one (yet), but I'm rather enamored with the 12v Spectra water makers. If you have wind and solar, you have water. Tankage as backup or to buy yourself repair time at sea. Bring spares.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Something to think about reducing use. interdependent tanks so they can't be cross connected and have one fault pull the other down. Only hand pumps, no electrical. Convenient salt water access for washing. Use a hand pump sprayer for a shower insetad of a pressure nozzle.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

We have a power survivor 35 ( came with the boat) if I was going o go for a new one I would look at either the cruise r/o system or a power survivor 80


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Personally - I wouldn't do a circ without a watermaker. They are crazy expensive. But good and plentiful water is pretty important to me.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

thebigblueroad said:


> Hello everybody!
> Me and my girlfriend are planning to circumnavigate the globe, which includes a bit of planning.
> 
> Anyhow, I am currently thinking about the water issue....


Are you inquiring about drinkable water (potable) as the title indicates or water management in general?
Two different things. You may have a large water tank but may not be potable... but good enough to cook, etc. Calculate how many gallons/liters you use for your daily needs and multiply by double the number of days you plan for the passage.

On my previous boat (30') I used to take three 5 gallons water bottles - the blue one you buy at supermarkets for drinking only, the water in the tank (100 gallons) was to cook, do dishes, and head sink. Showers only when it rained, otherwise baby wipes for personal hygiene.
Different people different needs....


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Get a water maker and have it the biggest you can afford. Work on running it at least every three days.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

And try one of these as well.

Rainwater is pure, distilled water evaporated by the sun | RainSnare

Yes you could make your own....we didn't. It's worth the price and you need to spend the time on the boat.


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

chall03 said:


> And try one of these as well.
> 
> Rainwater is pure, distilled water evaporated by the sun | RainSnare
> 
> Yes you could make your own....we didn't. It's worth the price and you need to spend the time on the boat.


AU$135 for a tarp and tubing. That's some nice work!


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

hellsop said:


> AU$135 for a tarp and tubing. That's some nice work!


Ours was $99AU which is $75US including postage. I saw one at a show and felt it was a pretty well designed little bit of tarp and tube.

Or like I said make your own.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

I would get one of these..

ECHOTec. Marine Watermakers*- Belt Driven Watermakers*(Modular)

12 volt is ok but I would not use it as a primary source. You get 40 Gals an hour or more with a belt driven one. You would have to use 50 -100 amps to get the same quantity of water on a modern 12 volt system over a 5 to 6 hour period and the amp consumption is affected by water temp regardless of what you read so double the amp estimates. In my opinion you would have to recharge your batteries with the engine anyway so why not get the real deal and relax until your engine breaks down.  You could also get a portable one as a backup as well. Someone above mentioned running two systems. I would do the same.

I would think on an ocean crossing you would wana take the load off your batteries where possible and not add to their burden. They have other things to do.

You don't wana be doing sun and rain dances to get your water fix. Add up your estimated consumption and you will be surprised how much water you use. Even a shower is around 2.5 gallons per min. Cooking, dish washing, drinking, brushing your teeth etc. x 2. Your on 10 gallons a day per person minimum if you wana be comfortable. I do 10 gallons just drinking tea every day. ))


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> .....12 volt is ok but I would not use it as a primary source. You get 40 Gals an hour or more with a belt driven one. You would have to use 50 -100 amps to get the same quantity of water on a modern 12 volt system over a 5 to 6 hour period......


That's essentially correct. The Newport model of the Spectra publishes the ability to make 40 gallons in about 2.5 hrs at 63 amps total. I'm sure you're right, they're probably optimal conditions and one could expect higher amps and lower output by some margin.

However, 40 gallons should be days worth of water. Over that period, between wind and solar, the 63 amps should be easily replaced. The problem with a motor run pump is you can't make more diesel in the middle of the ocean.

This is the one I have my eye on.

http://www.spectrawatermakers.com/products/marine/newport-400-mkii/


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I've got a Spectra Newport aboard. It makes about 17 gallons an hour here in the very salty and warm Caribbean waters.

Apart from the survival necessity of having sufficient water aboard, I find that the water is at the absolute top of the list for things to have aboard when it comes to liveability. This season I've been aboard for over 2 months non-stop and haven't been to a dock since I left the yard. The previous seasons I was aboard 4 or more months without going to a dock and even helping other boats out with drinking water from the watermaker when we were in anchorages without anything ashore.

I've seen boats (often with a family aboard) that plan their passages and destinations around water access. Getting ashore with sufficient jerry cans to fill up tanks is a huge hassle, as is finding a dock and getting to it so that one can fill up on water. Water quality is always a big issue when trying a new source.

While a watermaker is indeed a big investment, in my opinion it is worth every penny for the cruising sailor.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

That spectra one does look like a nice one but I would attempt to run it with two pumps.. One from the engine and a pump from the battery via a two way valve. The belt driven pumps let you use your own 3rd party filter system so I don't think it would be hard to configure two pumps into one.

To put diesel consumption in perspective lets say you burn 1 gallon of diesel an hour(40-70HP motor) under load and are able to produce 60 gallons of water. That's roughly 6 days water supply(@ 10 gals per day) per person per .166 gallons of diesel per day.

So lets take a journey of 30 days to cross the Atlantic with "two" people then we need 600 gallons of water which has a diesel cost of 600/10 x .166 which is 9.96 gallons. Net off your original starting capacity and its less. 

Lets add a margin of error of 100% and it is still only 20 gallons if my maths is correct of diesel to be able to have the luxury of water on demand and as a near by-product of having to run up the alternator to charge the batteries because there is a lot of wasted energy when battery charging anyway. 

To me the principle source of energy for a water maker has to be the engine because it offers the best reliability/efficiency ratio. I have little knowledge of amp harvesting via hydro or wind power but a single standard solar panel(10 sq ft) is going to give at the very very best 5 amp in only the very very best of conditions. It just don't add up to me unless you live reliably in the sun and have a big area you can give over to more than one panel. To run a water maker that require massive pressure for 1 hour and that uses 60 amps would require 12 hours of perfect conditions to get those amps via one standard solar panel. That energy need could take 4 days to harvest or more in the real world so I am not sure water resource should be dependent on the whims of the weather. Maybe if it was a solo sailor it could be manageable but two people relying on green energy is a big ask of your alternative energy setup on a relatively small cruising boat. I have a big solar array on my roof west facing and its quite useless really and if I had not managed to get it installed via a subsidy from the government I would be very pissed off. I think there are solar cells that are very efficient but they are not available to joe public and are too delicate and expensive for a marine environment. 

I would use green energy as augmentation but not rely on it beyond a normal water tank. If I could not replenish a water store after a 30% drop against anticipated normal need with a fast water maker I would regard the situation as an emergency and use the green stuff as an added emergency rationed resource.

Maybe some one could introduce the energy output of hydro and wind and allow the numbers to make more sense or correct the ones I have provided but I would reserve solar for my usb charger and not much else.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Dock water goes through prefilter (2micron) then into tanks. All water out of tanks goes through whole boat filter (model B2-3M). A couple of 1 g jugs are kept in frig. They are filtered when filled via the Sawyer handheld system.
With two Kycera panels and two D400s expect never need to turn on engine or generator to power Ventura 150 Spectra DC system filling two independent 100g water tanks. A bit simpler than the Newport but will add on the silver system and automatic flush so no pickling. Main issue I see is not when you use the watermaker on passage but rather when you don't use the watermaker at anchor.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

outbound said:


> Dock water goes through prefilter (2micron) then into tanks. All water out of tanks goes through whole boat filter (model B2-3M). A couple of 1 g jugs are kept in frig. They are filtered when filled via the Sawyer handheld system.
> With two Kycera panels and two D400s expect never need to turn on engine or generator to power Ventura 150 Spectra DC system filling two independent 100g water tanks. A bit simpler than the Newport but will add on the silver system and automatic flush so no pickling. Main issue I see is not when you use the watermaker on passage but rather when you don't use the watermaker at anchor.


yeh. Those D400's look like they can wack out a load.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> That spectra one does look like a nice one but I would attempt to run it with two pumps.. One from the engine and a pump from the battery via a two way valve. The belt driven pumps let you use your own 3rd party filter system so I don't think it would be hard to configure two pumps into one.
> 
> To put diesel consumption in perspective lets say you burn 1 gallon of diesel an hour(40-70HP motor) under load and are able to produce 60 gallons of water. That's roughly 6 days water supply(@ 10 gals per day) per person per .166 gallons of diesel per day.
> 
> ...


Thread jack 
If you are having that poor of performance out of the array on your home I would be looking into having all the electrical connections checked.
Something is really wrong. 
Next what is a standard panel? On our Spencer we have 2 100 watt monocristiline panels which provide more than enough power for us and they are only 40 inches x 26 inches so just over 7 sq ft each they fit quite nicely on the dodger. On a cloudy rainny day like today they still produce between 6 and 7 amps for charging. You multiply that by 8 hours good daylight and we get between 48 and 52 ah of charging and when its sunny we like last Monday we got well over 100 ah worth of power ( batteries are always full before noon ). YMMV . Running the water maker in the afternoon hours does not require battery power as long as the sun is above the horizon.


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## Yofy (Aug 15, 2007)

Watermakers are great but the biggest problem we see with them (besides electrical draw, and maintenance) is that people rely on them and don't learn to conserve their water. 

A cruising sailor who plans to cross oceans needs to learn to conserve water. And for any sailor who is new to living aboard it isn't always something that comes naturally.

We've sailed with crew who blatantly refused to use seawater to wash dishes or who insisted on showering even when they were instructed not to. In our opinion, foot pumps are a must, learning to use a cup of water to brush your teeth, a wet washcloth to wash your face and or body, washing dishes with seawater and collecting rainwater will save gallons of water on any voyage. 

Manny and Robyn


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Yofu has got it right. He alludes to water 101. For instance I'm preparing boat for passage home. 4 people total. 1500m. All goes well 8-14d.
20g in individual gallon jugs. Survival supply if it hits the fan. Still in life raft.
200g in two tanks.
Pressure water turned off until crew shown to be water aware.
Salt and fresh water pumps in galley sinks.
Finger rinse plastic can left in one galley sink.
If done right should allow two wet and rinse showers person. Determine if shower allowed on day 4 and day eight.
Large supply of baby wipes.
However for longer passages or more crew a water maker makes the world smell sweet. There is nothing to compare to a nice shower in the middle of the ocean to reinvigorate you during passage.


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## mf70 (Nov 6, 2014)

Ask the Donfeng Volvo racers about supplying 100% of water needs via a watermaker!


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

newhaul said:


> Thread jack
> If you are having that poor of performance out of the array on your home I would be looking into having all the electrical connections checked.
> Something is really wrong.
> Next what is a standard panel? On our Spencer we have 2 100 watt monocristiline panels which provide more than enough power for us and they are only 40 inches x 26 inches so just over 7 sq ft each they fit quite nicely on the dodger. On a cloudy rainny day like today they still produce between 6 and 7 amps for charging. You multiply that by 8 hours good daylight and we get between 48 and 52 ah of charging and when its sunny we like last Monday we got well over 100 ah worth of power ( batteries are always full before noon ). YMMV . Running the water maker in the afternoon hours does not require battery power as long as the sun is above the horizon.


If you get between 6 and 7 on a cloudy day then you must have some super duper tech in your solar panels. Standard is around 13% efficiency I think. Top end that they use for space craft is about 40%


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Yofy said:


> Watermakers are great but the biggest problem we see with them (besides electrical draw, and maintenance) is that people rely on them and don't learn to conserve their water.
> 
> A cruising sailor who plans to cross oceans needs to learn to conserve water. And for any sailor who is new to living aboard it isn't always something that comes naturally.
> 
> ...


If you are on a small boat with limited water storage then sure you need to conserve but if you have a water maker the dynamic changes. Conservation becomes less of a priority between stops surely. Using a cup of water to brush your teeth makes sense but to restrict showering seems a bit mean. That's what the water maker is there for.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

outbound said:


> Yofu has got it right. He alludes to water 101. For instance I'm preparing boat for passage home. 4 people total. 1500m. All goes well 8-14d.
> 20g in individual gallon jugs. Survival supply if it hits the fan. Still in life raft.
> 200g in two tanks.
> Pressure water turned off until crew shown to be water aware.
> ...


200 gallons for 4 people for 14 days = 3.5 gallons / person / day

Is that about the math you're using?


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

outbound said:


> Yofu has got it right. He alludes to water 101. For instance I'm preparing boat for passage home. 4 people total. 1500m. All goes well 8-14d.
> 20g in individual gallon jugs. Survival supply if it hits the fan. Still in life raft.
> 200g in two tanks.
> Pressure water turned off until crew shown to be water aware.
> ...


Why would you have a lovely comfortable outbound 46 and not plumb in a water maker? Go on Outbound... Flash the cash and have a splash.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The boat is plumbed and wired for the spectra. It gets installed this summer/fall. Surprisingly its absence has been a total non issue in the Caribbean cruising with the wife. Even rinsing off on the sugar scoop after every dip. Only consesion has been to flip the head switches to salt not fresh flush. On trip down took two showers and had 40g left in the tanks. Similarly no need in the north east. In fact there are many places in both locales where running a water maker might be unwise. I just want it installed before doing western Caribbean and South Pacific. From what I understand they do poorly if not run. Pickling is not the same as a new membrane. Hence intentionally will continue to defer until a reasonable need exists.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> If you get between 6 and 7 on a cloudy day then you must have some super duper tech in your solar panels. Standard is around 13% efficiency I think. Top end that they use for space craft is about 40%


I don't know the efeciency numbers of the 2 100 watt panels I just know what my fluke says ( my batteries are charged daily by noon and that's good enough for me.). Today with the drizzle they were at 8.2 amp output average. YMMV


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Trying to make us jealous Outbound with your talk of the Caribbean? Your succeeding!


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

newhaul said:


> I don't know the efeciency numbers of the 2 100 watt panels I just know what my fluke says ( my batteries are charged daily by noon and that's good enough for me.). Today with the drizzle they were at 8.2 amp output average. YMMV


When I quoted efficiency it was in response to your question as to what is standard. I was referring to a normal tech based solar cell. Sure you will get 8 amps from 2 x 100 watt panels. Think your cell circuit will be about 17 volts so maxed in the sun you will get 100/17 which is 5 something amps each but if you have cloud cover surprised you get anything near a combined 8.2 That video shows less than an amp from a 75 watt panel in cloud cover or low sun and that's my experience also. You will be losing another 20% in the charge process as well don't forget.

I don't know what amps you consume a day but it sounds very light and I am guessing you are moored and not running auto pilot but the best you could harvest would be 8hrs(wishful) x 11amps(wishful) less 20% which is 65 - 70 amp hours. Under way on a voyage think it would need complimenting if you were running fridge/freezer, power autopilot and water maker, etc... What is your amp consumption per day? Sounds to me if you are fully charged up by noon with out any other energy input other than solar then you are using 20 - 30 - amps per night only and managing to get by on less than 10 per hour during the day. That's pretty good.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Currently most of our cruising is in the pnw anchoring at night so minimal running light use and an led anchor light also a technautics refer runs in wee hours of the morning using about 13 ah and all led house lights use less than 2 ah at night the afternoon run of the fridge and water maker are fully supported by the solar panels rarely use the auto pilot and when on a passage usually use the storm sail to tiller steering setup uses no power grew up camping in tents and trailers so I'm no stranger to conserving its just a way of life for me and mine.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

newhaul said:


> Currently most of our cruising is in the pnw anchoring at night so minimal running light use and an led anchor light also a technautics refer runs in wee hours of the morning using about 13 ah and all led house lights use less than 2 ah at night the afternoon run of the fridge and water maker are fully supported by the solar panels rarely use the auto pilot and when on a passage usually use the storm sail to tiller steering setup uses no power grew up camping in tents and trailers so I'm no stranger to conserving its just a way of life for me and mine.


Do me a favour please newhaul if you could.. Check your amp production in the morning if you can. Would be very interested to know what it is. If some one asked me to guess your production from your rig on perfect days of clear sky and max sun I would have estimated at 2 hours x 10amps, 4 hours x 6 amps, 2 hours x 4 amps and either side of 8 hours not much which by mid day would be approx 26 amps fed back less charge loss and in total I would have said 55 ish with charging loss bringing it to around 45 or basically one battery but based on your consumption seems you still fit within those numbers. What is your bat capacity? 200 - 300 amp hours?


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

OK will try to remember to get some numbers for you our battery as stated earlier is a single bank of 2x6 golf cart batteries with a 185 ah rating. Here is one that amazed me when I checked the other day think was last Monday at solar noon with no shading the meter showed 13.2 amps comming out of the panels at 14.2 volts batteries were fully charged by then but refer was running. At around 5 pm that same day the panels were still showing just over 8 amps. At home marina for a couple weeks however have not used battery charger in 2 months.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

I wana live where you live newhaul!


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> I wana live where you live newhaul!


Paul you do live close to where I live you are about 135 miles south on I5 from me dads boat is at Foss harbor marina in tacoma . Here is the link to the panel bundle I put on his boat 200 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panel Complete Kit for RV's, Boats and Off-Grid


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## thebigblueroad (Apr 19, 2015)

Wow! Great responses.

It sounds like I am going to have to rethink abit about the watermaker. I could add more tanks. But I am starting to understand the advantages of the watermaker.

What do people say about buying a used one? Is it possible to service it and be satisfied with the result? Or do we have to buy a new one? 

/Peter


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I supposed used could work, but they are finicky beasts and you'll never quite know if it's you or the used equip, if not working properly.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Used water makers go for a song out here, folks upgrading and getting rid of gear they can't or won't maintain, question in remote spot is being able to get the parts to make it work. Since your still home ported, why don't you figure out what it takes to make it yourself, it's not exactly rocket science. Actually if you can't figure out how to make one at home, you may just find it a bit more difficult to make the 6K work at sea.


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## thebigblueroad (Apr 19, 2015)

SVTatia said:


> Are you inquiring about drinkable water (potable) as the title indicates or water management in general?
> Two different things. You may have a large water tank but may not be potable... but good enough to cook, etc. Calculate how many gallons/liters you use for your daily needs and multiply by double the number of days you plan for the passage.
> 
> On my previous boat (30') I used to take three 5 gallons water bottles - the blue one you buy at supermarkets for drinking only, the water in the tank (100 gallons) was to cook, do dishes, and head sink. Showers only when it rained, otherwise baby wipes for personal hygiene.
> Different people different needs....


I had over simplified the general thought. After reading through the whole thread I have realized that I need to figure out not just how much water to bring, but also how it will be used and how to save. Seawater showers, that someone mentioned might not be a bad idea.

Also rain collection need to be considered.

I need to rethink the whole water thing, start with a design and figure out the uses and requirements after that.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Rain snare looks interesting. Handy size.

We have a HUGE canopy, cockpit tent made to catch rain water. We haven't used it yet. I'm sure it will work well, but it would be less than quick to set up. On the other hand, it does double duty by shading the cockpit, and much of the cabin.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

thebigblueroad said:


> I had over simplified the general thought. After reading through the whole thread I have realized that I need to figure out not just how much water to bring, but also how it will be used and how to save. Seawater showers, that someone mentioned might not be a bad idea.
> 
> Also rain collection need to be considered.
> 
> I need to rethink the whole water thing, start with a design and figure out the uses and requirements after that.


This is the part about spending time on a boat, actually living on one and sailing and cruising to determine your needs. One's needs at sea could be hardly determined in an Ikea furnished abode. Seawater showers are going to be a fact of life on a small boat. A real bummer for most dirt dwellers. But it's the reality out here. damn, taking a swim and using saltwater to clean with a one liter rinse, not too difficult. Are you really up to it? As far as design goes, don't over think it...


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

I think if you have the option of adding more tankage for water, so much the better. The trade off is that you have to fill those tanks somehow. This will mean lugging jerry cans at times. It should be easy to rig up a system to catch rain. Here in the tropics I can fill my 500 liter water tank with a good afternoon downpour, otherwise I make a habit of always coming back to the boat from shore with 20 liters of water in a collapsable water jug (not really a chore). I never run out of water. A watermaker may be a solution for some, but they do break down and the membrane has to be pickled after a few days if you don't use it. It can be a problem if you often leave the boat for a few days at a time to travel ashore. I like the idea of simple systems and find that big tanks, catching rain water and sometimes lugging jerry cans works for me. I wouldn't want the added complications and energy use of a watermaker. That said, traveling to places with little rainfall or lack of available water might make me think twice about this...


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

In your shore side life are you participating in an active outdoor lifestyle? Hiking, back packing, geo caching, camping, sea kaying, some cross country ski adventures?How much water are you using in these ventures? Bet it is not to much different then you will use on a boat, sans showering and other ablution activities. Might be good for you to fill a 20 litre jug and see how long you can make it last, better results then spreadsheet planning


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## rdw (Jan 14, 2010)

Any body know where to buy what I would need to attach a garden hose to my sun shad awning to direct water into fill caps.
rdw


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Sew in a funnel at the low point. Attach a line to hold it own. Go buy a plastic funnel that is a push fit into funnel and in turn pushes into your garden hose. No need to clever with disconnects but that is an option. 

Also you need a bucket cutaway to fit under the boom at the gooseneck. A spigot in the bottom and hose to lead to the water inlet. At least 3/4 and 1 inch is better. A 5 minute squall can easily give you a 100 gallons. You may need to raise the end of the boom slightly using the topping lift to maximise flow.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Unless u are in a tropical monsoon area I have not had success with water catchers. Too much dust builds up between showers and flushes into your tanks.

I go into a fuel dock and fill up.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

All the rainwater from the forward 2/3 of this boat runs back inside the toerails. The tank fills are nearby. A dish towel rolled up makes a little dam. The deck is kept clean and the first few minutes of rain are skipped. Works great here in equatorial paradise. The port take is used for drinking water so we take extra care with its water. The starboard is for showers and cleaning it gets less care, watemaker output, shore water, chlorine, etc.

We never pickle the water maker. Sometimes we flush it with fresh water. It doesn't make any difference in performance. The first bit of stinky output goes overboard. No problem.


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## BMLipiec (Feb 3, 2009)

When we outfitted our boat for extended cruising I wrestled with this same issue for a year and did a ton of research. Water maker or not? Miserly amp/low output or big amp/high output? A/C or D/C? I also wanted as simple and reliable as possible. BTW, this is all just my opinion, and what I ultimately did.

The first answer was easy, my wife, The Admiral, said it was non-negotiable. Which is also the only thing she has demanded for the boat. Ok then, what to buy? 

I initially leaned towards 12 volt systems that would run on solar power. But two things bothered me - running the pump for HOURS to get anything usable and most of these WMs have proprietary parts and special pumps to make them efficient. 

One thing nobody mentions is that in order to keep the expensive filters in good shape, you need to back flush them with fresh water every time you make water. How much? Depends on the brand but it seems most say between 2-3 gallons. So if my WM only makes a few gallons an hour, I have to run it an extra hour just to have enough water to back flush. Second, the more complicated the system, the more likely you will have problems. Specialty pumps and computer chips, no thanks.

A/C systems. The best 12 volt systems produce less than half of what an A/C system can. Spectra, a well regarded system, puts out 6-8 gals/hr. A/C systems on the other hand do 20-30 gals/hr. BUT, you need a generator to power it. An inverter can run it but will drain a battery bank pretty quickly. Solar and wind cannot keep up with it, and I wanted self reliance for all of my essential systems. I would have to rely solely on a generator. I went back and forth for months until I had an epiphany - a WM is NOT essential. Sailors have been circling the globe without watermakers forever. I have friends who are cruising Mexico and the South Pacific, where water is not always available or clean without a WM. They have been doing it for years. They are also better sailors than I could ever be.

So, if it is not essential, then I can do without it if/when it breaks. I chose to go with the Cruise RO watermaker (30 gals/hr model), and here is why. First, I can fill my two 35 gal tanks in just over two hours. Back flushing 3-5 gals afterwards is not an issue. We use less than 20 gals in 4 days when conserving and need run the watermaker for only an hour each time. The Honda generator (that I already owned) can charge my batteries or laptops and make water at the same time. The system has no proprietary parts, and is completely modular. Manual operation - no computers. Owners seem to be extremely happy with it, and customer service has been exceptional. I installed it myself and the owners were readily available when I had questions.

I have also come to realize that I do have a back up with the 2000 watt inverter we have. I can't fill my tanks without depleting my batteries, but I can run it for 15 min in an emergency, and still make 7-8 gals. Solar could keep up with that if I did that every other day. I haven't measured the amp draw this way though. Plus when on passage, we conserve water as if we do not have a WM.

Another thing no one talks about is the necessity to make water every 3-4 days (with a back flush) to keep algea and other critters from growing in the filters. So you are a slave to firing the thing up a couple of times per week. Some of the fancy systems have automatic backflushing, but you are relying on technology again. That being said, I know people with the Spectra who love it.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Next time the boat comes out of the water is very likely a Ventura 150 Spectra goes in.
1.It hasn't rained to any significance in over a month in the Caribbean. As said first multiple galleons would be needed to flush Sahara dust off the boat before filling tanks so rain catching not viable. Light air but good sun. Getting about 17a/h out of renewables for ~10h/d. 
2.Current Spectra allows automatic usage and Au facilitated sterilization. Electronics have improved to point of very low failure rate.
3. The big issue is to have as much water storage as possible. We have 200g. That way can wait until solar panels and D400s have topped of the 1020ah of AGMs capacity. Wait for sunny and windy period. Then run the WM for 6-8h bringing down the batteries well above any level of concern. So can bring down water by 50-100g depending on circumstance. Then make water for a few days. 
If you don't have sufficient tankage you don't have flexibility in when and where to make water. If you do have sufficient tankage you have much greater flexibility as:
Odds are you will have to run engine within time water becomes an issue so belt driven or A.C. systems work.
You will have topped your batteries and have a period of sunny/windy days so D.C. systems will work.
One would note water is $0.15-0.25/g You can buy a lot of water before you reach the cost of an WM.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

My W/M philosophy is the opposite of BMLipiec above. Nothing wrong about their thinking, but consider mine. As we two use, luxuriously, about 20 gallons per day I would like a system that makes 20 gallons per day. One or two gallons per hour. The system would be small and light. Probably inexpensive. I wouldn't need as much heavy tankage. It could run 24 hours per day, or while the sun shines. It would never need flushing. The tank would always be full. It would be reliable as it does not rely on generators, engine run pressure pumps, a multitude of valving and plumbing and fancy automatic controls.

The problem is that nobody makes one.

I presently have a Village Marine 8 gph unit. It must be the worst W/M ever designed. However, I n storage, from the previous boat, I have a Spectra Ventura. It may be the closest match to my needs. I'm thinking I can run it intermittently 24/7, every few hours, to avoid the costly fresh water flushing.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

They do however make one that produces 40 gpd the power survivor 40E
Products - Katadyn Products Inc.


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## foojin (Apr 30, 2014)

On a singlehanded North Pacific crossing from Japan I had 200 litres (50 US gallons) in the main tanks and 40 litres (10 gal) emergency in a Vancouver 27. 

I was prepared to collect water. Friends who had sailed the same route the year before had collected tons of water. Two days out, it rained, but I didn't bother trying to collect it, figuring I would have lots of chances. That was the last time I could have collected water in a crossing that took 72 days. I had lots of contrary wind.

Anyway, I had about 20 litres (five gallons) of water left when I got to Victoria. I'd like to have a water maker next time I do something like that. I can't help but wonder what I would do if the rigging failed and I lost communications in a storm.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

In the tropics most squalls only last a few minutes. In that time you close the hatches, romove the cockpit cushions, rinse the salt, bird poop off the deck, open your filler port.... the rain stops.

Because nature invented the 24 Hour clock this is 50% likely to happen when you are in bed having a shag.

After catching water for a season you wonder why you water tastes like a bird rookery and looks like flat ginger ale with floaties... uke


Have fun!


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

* "Because nature invented the 24 Hour clock this is 50% likely to happen when you are in bed having a shag."*

We just continued the activities on the foredeck...a bit of soap and shampoo, a loofa and all was wonderful..part of our nocturnal cruising the tropics kinda fun stuff, under the stars, a full moon perhaps, maybe a violent squall perhaps? Truly XXX rated.


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## Caribbeachbum (Feb 23, 2014)

Non-skid will make you long for an ordinary rug burn...


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Kiwi Grip not to bad on yer backsides...forget the knees and elbow stuff, i prefer to look at the stars........


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## dave22q (Jun 1, 2011)

340L is not much. about 75 days worth, I question any ocean passage unless you have a good solar powered water maker with spares, a rain collection system and a manual pump to access tank water without power.. in most populated areas you do not pay expensive marina fees to buy fuel, water and provisions. for isolated areas you must carry sufficient supplies of everything.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

The long distance water issue goes like this here. One departs with full water and a working watermaker (and the whatever powers it). It is assumed that no rain water will be available. Many a cruise and adventure has come to no good for a surprising lack of rain, even here in the rainiest part of the world. Water use can be liberal so long as the watermaker runs, or it rains. The tanks are not allowed to fall below some computed level. This level changes during the crossing. Not much water is needed while close to ports with water. Much more out in the middle. Less if downwind in the reliable trade winds, more if doldrums are known to occur along the route. So if water production suddenly ceases the usage can switch to a much more conservative style. Something to think about, compute, during those many quiet days at sea.


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