# Dreaming and Planning



## rockdiver (Dec 20, 2016)

Hello everyone!

I just signed up for this forum this week. My name is Jeremy. I live in landlocked Nevada working in the gold mining industry as a geologist/GIS specialist. My family and I are all certified scuba divers. I love the idea of living on a sail boat with my family cruising from island to island diving and meeting people from all over the world. 

My plan right now is to pay off all debt (student loans) then save for the boat. I also need to figure out how to make a small income while out on the water to pay for expenses and save for larger repairs or maintenance. 

I also have no sailing experience so learning to sail is in the plan. Currently I am looking at mono hull center cockpit cruisers in the 48 to 55 ft range. I do not have a brand preference but through reading posts and watching a few youtube videos I have a list of wants and needs. 

well I will stop here. I hope to learn from everyone here. Because if have two teens I will be reading post about family cruising and the like. 

cheers,

Jeremy


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Hello Jeremy: welcome to Sailnet. I'm sure everyone here will be glad to give you their opinion on the boats you are considering, as well as advice on just about everything else (often even if you don't want it).

Since you are an experienced diver, I assume you've been on many boats and know that a 48-55 footer is a lot of boat; it's certainly a big boat to have as your first boat. Reading and researching is necessary, but IMHO, nothing beats actual experience in figuring out what is important to you and how you use your boat. Get on as many sailboats as possible and try them out before you choose.

Good luck.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Jeremy - 

Welcome aboard! If there are any local lakes, it would be a good idea to get a dinghy and learn to sail. I believe that you will learn the basics of sailing much faster on a small boat than on a large boat. You will still need to learn A LOT about sailing a big boat too (docking, anchoring...). You will also need to know how to operate and repair all the big boat systems (engine, refrigeration, head...). 

Remember: Read, Do, Repeat.


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## Foxyladycrew (Nov 30, 2016)

Jeremy

I suggest you purchase something like as Catalina 22--- with a tiller. You can single handle it around any lake, then put it on the trailer and drive home. You will spend about $ 3000.00 and as the above comments indicated -- you don't want to start with too much boat.
Get a few books to read on the concepts of sailing, then get a cruising guide for a place you may be familiar with or somewhere like the Florida Keys that will have good google earth pictures. The smaller boat allows you to become skilled while you work on the financial matters, the cruising guide coupled with google earth allows you to know one area in some depth-- most of the basic stuff applies to anywhere. You will be able to make a few bucks while cruising by: playing music, fixing other boats, scraping hulls, the big anchorages are like small towns, everyone there has skills, but few want to scrape their own boat.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Welcome.
I certainly hope you won't be learning to sail singlehanded if you have a wife and a couple of teens. It's a great deal more fun as a family adventure.
The only real way to gain confidence sailing is to SAIL. I recommend Royce's Sailing Illustrated as a basic primer. It covers just about everything one needs to know to safely handle a small craft, in a fun yet comprehensive format. No preachy tome here.


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## NHM527 (Nov 18, 2006)

Jeremy: Welcome.
A couple of thoughts about starting your project. First is to read. Second is to start following some sailing blogs. Third is to take sailing lessons and sail.

Books: Lin and Larry Pardy are the starting point for so many people. Lisa Copeland writes about sailing with family. These will lead you many other titles. Some cruising books are superb, others... well, they have useful information. Overall, you'll begin to learn from the folks who went out and did it.

Blogs: I follow maybe 20. Some that will get you started are by Annie Dike, havewindwilltravel and Kelly Waterhouse, kkmorea and the Nightingaletune's with seabiscuitblog. (They are all dot com) appliedsailing.blogspot may be helpful, too. Once you start, more links follow. There is a blog called womenandcruising that is chock full of links and articles including the big one: how much does it cost.

Lessons: Take learn to sail through advanced coastal cruising courses in a couple venues, BVI, New England, PNW, etc. Try a variety of boats. Each instructor will have something special to contribute.

Cruising is not very much about sailing. It is a lot about self sufficiency. But you have to know how to sail.

Don't forget to have fun! Norm


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I apologize that this was written for a different discussion, but hopefully it will prove helpful....

The dream of voyaging under sail can be a powerful one. There was a time when several times a month I would receive an email from someone who is considering doing just what you are proposing. I have watched literally dozens of folks go through this. Some are successful in getting 'out there', some discover that they really enjoy sailing and find that they really have no need to 'go out there’ deciding to sail in their local venues; some have discovered that the sailing life is just not for them, and others have not even gotten past the dreaming stage. 

From what I have seen, the most successful (especially when children are involved) have been the ones who have been somewhat systematic about going. There is a lot to learn before one can safely venture offshore. No one would assume that they could buy a jet airliner take a few lessons and be able to fly around the world. I think most rational people would expect to start with a small plane and work their way up. But for some reason people assume that they can just go out and buy a big boat, take a couple lessons, read a few books, and then go safely cruising.

While there are people who literally taken a few lessons, read a few books and went out cruising, those that were successful going that route are far more rare than those who have done some kind of apprenticeship. Learning to sail and learning to cruise involves a lot of knowledge and no matter how much you know, there will always be more to learn, but I suggest that you at least take the time to learn the basics, and that just about can’t happen if you buy ‘a big sailboat’ and move your family aboard. 

I find myself saying this a lot lately but here I go again. We all come to sailing with our own specific needs, our own specific goals and our own specific capabilities. The neat thing about sailing is that we all don’t have to agree that there is only one right way to go sailing. There is no more truth in expecting that there is one universally right answer about many aspects of sailing than there is in trying to prove that vanilla ice cream is universally better than strawberry ice cream. One area of sailing for which there is no one universally right answer involves the amount of knowledge one needs to go sailing. 

For some, all they need or want to know about sailing is just enough knowledge to safely leave the slip sail where they want and get back safely. There is nothing inherently wrong with that approach. But for others, like myself, there is much more to sailing than simply developing a rudimentary knowledge of sailing basics. If you fall into that camp, it is next to impossible to learn to sail really well on a boat as large as the one in question. 

While I am in no way suggesting that this makes sense for everyone, for those who really want to learn to sail well, I strongly suggest that they start out owning a used 23 to 27 foot, responsive, light-weight, tiller steered, fin keel/spade rudder (ideally fractionally rigged) sloop (or if they are athletically inclined then a dinghy.) Boats like these provide the kind of feedback that is so necessary to teach a newcomer how to really sail well. Boats like these have small enough loads on lines and the helm that you and your children can all participate and learn together. Being able to learn and participate, the children will be more engaged and less likely to be bored and feel kidnapped. 

By sailing well, I mean understanding the nuances of boat handling and sail trim in a way that cannot be learned on a larger boat. Used small boats generally hold their values quite well so that after a year or even few years or so of learning, you should be able to get most of your money out of the small boat and move on to a bigger boat actually knowing something about which specific desirable characteristics of a boat appeal to you as an experienced sailor rather than the preferences of some stranger on some Internet discussion group.

From the advice that you have already gotten you can tell that there may not be a consensus on the right way to learn to sail or voyage.In any event, I think that the right idea includes lots of reading and taking at least basic sailing lessons. If I were in your shoes, I would sit down and put together a list of all of the things that I would want to know before I set off voyaging such as:
•	Boat handling,
•	Boat husbandry, repair and maintenance
•	Diesel maintenance and repair
•	First aid
•	Financial management from offshore
•	Home education methods
•	Heavy weather tactics
•	Legal restrictions on leaving and entering foreign countries
•	Navigation, (Celestial, dead reckoning and electronic) 
•	Provisioning
•	Radio operators license exam requirements
•	Safe and dangerous fish
•	Sail trim
•	Survival skills 
•	Etc………..

Once I had what I thought was a complete list, I would set up a schedule to try to develop those areas of skill that I was currently lacking. As much as possible I would try to involve all those involved in as many of those aspects as each is capable of understanding. This process could take as little as a year, but more often takes two to three years. The process itself can be very rewarding and can build the kind of family bonds that are required to be cast away on that oh so small island that a boat underway represents. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## rockdiver (Dec 20, 2016)

Thank you everyone for responding.

I plan on doing a lot of reading and taking sailing courses when I can. I appreciated the feedback and there were things mentioned I have not considered which is why I joined this forum. 

Jeff,

I like your idea of making a list of subject we need to learn because a dream with out a plan is just a dream! 
until next time keep sailing and be safe everyone!

Jeremy


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Nevada is a great place to learn about owning your own boat!!
Just go to a Casino and chuck money on the table.
You will leave wiser.


:laugh


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## Foxyladycrew (Nov 30, 2016)

MARKOFSEALIFE,

Tell us a little about boating on lake powell, my wife wants to rent a houseboat there for a month.. or two..

FOXYLADYCREW


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Foxyladycrew said:


> MARKOFSEALIFE,
> 
> Tell us a little about boating on lake powell, my wife wants to rent a houseboat there for a month.. or two..
> 
> FOXYLADYCREW


Me tell you about boating on Lake Powell?
Well you be come to the right person!

Lake Powell is a dream oasis fringed with palm trees, soft clear water lapping white sandy beaches and idyllic coral reefs with multiple colored fish jumping sometimes so high they land in the Nevada desert proper. But don't fear as a Golf Cart is on FRD (Fish Retrival Duty).

I can safely say no one knows the pleasures of Lake Powell, Nevada if they have never been.

:grin


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Me tell you about boating on Lake Powell?
> Well you be come to the right person!
> 
> Lake Powell is a dream oasis fringed with palm trees, soft clear water lapping white sandy beaches and idyllic coral reefs with multiple colored fish jumping sometimes so high they land in the Nevada desert proper. But don't fear as a Golf Cart is on FRD (Fish Retrival Duty).
> ...


Spent most of my spring breaks in lake Powell during my twisted youth....beer, chicks doobies,music, debauchery... water skiing, BBQ, too much fun to be had there. It may be hazardous to your health too.


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## Foxyladycrew (Nov 30, 2016)

MarkofSeaLife,

Just a couple of questions about lake powell:
we will do some web searching, but in Your Opinion....
What time of the year is best, what are the places to see, etc.
My wife and I have talked about having a summer here and there on different boats and bodies of water
We are selling our Beneteau 352, 3 motorcycles, 9 guitars and so much stuff-- when we are free of it we will have so many places to go.

Foxy lady crew Cape Coral FL


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## Foxyladycrew (Nov 30, 2016)

Have sold my sailing vessel---- 
please give me some advice how to remove myself from Sailnet.

John & Laurie
crew of The Foxy Lady (now sold)


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Foxy ,don't hold out for getting away from SN let alone for advice on how to get away from the very source of the affliction. Proven brain damage occurs in at least some 27% of posters .The actual percentage is still under consideration as some preexisting damage may skew the study. Only a cold turkey approach has any chance of success and just walking up to strangers and asking to use their smart phone for a minute only degrades the slow process of healing as torn synapses untangle. If you do relapse, make sure the GPS feature is off. There are suited men with sun glasses watching for you.


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