# Practical Sailor has deaf ears



## endoit (Jun 20, 2010)

Has this happened to any other member? I extended my subscription in January of 2012 for 2 years at $36+ with one of the numerous promos send to my house. As usual I documented the subscription expiration so I would not pay before January 2014 as these companies hit you early for more money. My magazines stopped coming after the November 2012 issue. Today I received an email to reniew at $39+ for 2 years and I realized that I was shorted. I called both 800 telephone numbers listed in the publication and was told that my subscription was only for 1 year. I advised each of the two subscription specialist that this did not make any sense considering current 2 year subscription cost. I was told by one to jump on the promotion promptly as this is a deal that will not last and by other to fax him a copy of the little stub that came with the old promo for review and correction. Sooo unless I am willing to look through my 2012 IRS folders to take a chance that it is there I am out of luck. Wondering if I am the only one so lucky?


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Strange thing about practical sailor is that you sign up for subscription, then a few months later they send out subscription renewal letters (that does not indicate the date of your current subscription expiration). Then if you look into it you still have 6 months remaining on your subscription. There subscription service is definitely jacked up.

Sorry to say I recently did not renew my subscription. Two reasons: first the jacked up subscription service and second the articles started to go more towards the big boat day sailor than to my needs.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

They did the same thing to me, and in fact most magazines do the same thing. I now keep detailed records, so I don't get screwed. 

Practical Sailor, while good information, was simply not worth the cash.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I don't respond to any magazine subscription request that arrives via regular mail. At least five of the numerous magazines I subscribe to have notified subscribers of scam renewal requests being mailed by companies that have nothing at all to do with the magazines. They print letters and official looking return envelopes that contain the magazine logo and it is hard to tell the difference.


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## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

I subscribed I the web site, never received a copy. Called and finally got an answer. Can access the website but still no copies. 
Ultimately I gave up, not worth the aggravation.


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

Hope PS is listening!


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

This was the other thing that turned me off to Practical Sailor. They did several articles on chain plate materials. One article on the use of titanium and another on the use of stainless steel. The titanium arcticle was all pro on using titanium and the stainless arcticle was all pro on stainless is ok as long as you do inspections, but then other articles from Practical Sailor says stainless can fail without warning, even after a good visual inspection.

So which way is it boys? I look to Practical Sailor as the expert and they are giving conflicting advice. I even wrote a letter to the editor, but never got a response.

In the end I will be replacing all my chain plates with silicon bronze, I think it is better than either stainless or titanium, but a metal Practical Sailor never mentioned in their articles.


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## juggleandhope (Jun 4, 2012)

gift subscription to a brother-in-law apparently never arrived at all.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I really wanted to like PS, but let me subscription go. It was starting to seem like they were stretching for material. 

I really like the idea that a group is doing independant product testing, but I've also followed there recommendation and was not happy with the product. That has never happened with consumer reports, in my experience.


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## Tanley (Aug 20, 2009)

Do you mean "deaf" ears?


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> I really wanted to like PS, but let me subscription go. It was starting to seem like they were stretching for material.
> 
> I really like the idea that a group is doing independant product testing, but I've also followed there recommendation and was not happy with the product. That has never happened with consumer reports, in my experience.


Ditto. Especially when my own test results contradicted theirs. Also sent a letter with no response. This was about 8 years ago.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I subscribed, got a bill, paid it for a year's subsription, and only got two copies. Live and learn.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I gave up my 8+ year subscription last year due to a few factors. The main push came from PS's incessant email bombardment for services and crap I didn't want. After fighting to get off their damn lists (and getting no responses) I let my subscription lapse.

Too bad, b/c I did appreciate the magazine. I love the model of subscription-based magazines. I used a number of articles as the basis for research (old journalist here, so never trust one source), but their really crappy circulation & customer service finally pushed me away.


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

In the old, pre-Internet, pre-Arpanet days I actually had binders full of PS. They were the only magazine that came 3-holed punched to encourage saving. I too have recently decided to blow them off. I got 2 issues in the mail over the last year and just got my second renewal notice. I will not even take to time to let them know that I don't want them anymore because they have become such a PITA to contact.

I also thought that I was going to have access to online issues. If that ever happened I will be damned if I can find any link taking me to where they are archived.

PS may have good research methods but their customer service and marketing sucks. I don't think they care.

Isn't some poster here on Sailnet a big time PS testor?


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> I don't respond to any magazine subscription request that arrives via regular mail. At least five of the numerous magazines I subscribe to have notified subscribers of scam renewal requests being mailed by companies that have nothing at all to do with the magazines. They print letters and official looking return envelopes that contain the magazine logo and it is hard to tell the difference.


Long before there were Nigerian email frauds there were the "invoices in the guise of solicitations" frauds.

USPS and Canada Post Corporation regulations ban the mailing of "invoices in the guise of solicitations". The direct marketing associations in both countries would kick out any member who mailed these phony invoices.

Prosecution is unfortunately rare...by the time someone complains and the authorities investigate the perpetrator has packed up and absconded with the money.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

i_amcdn said:


> In the old, pre-Internet, pre-Arpanet days I actually had binders full of PS. They were the only magazine that came 3-holed punched to encourage saving. I too have recently decided to blow them off. I got 2 issues in the mail over the last year and just got my second renewal notice. I will not even take to time to let them know that I don't want them anymore because they have become such a PITA to contact.
> 
> I also thought that I was going to have access to online issues. If that ever happened I will be damned if I can find any link taking me to where they are archived.
> 
> ...


I subscribed for a year several years ago when they had a deal for around $10. I have thought that I might subscribe again, and I think there including "full access" to the past issues is what I want. I understand they used to do quite good boat reviews and that might be helpful in my search. Your experience is making me think twice.

I also am not sure how many issues they put out in a year. They have a deal now for a years subscription and it lists 7 issues, but if you opt for the digital format it is 12 issues?!? not sure what is up with that. And there web page looks to have been designed 20 years ago. Not that I think it needs to be pretty, but there are a bunch of drop down menus where it is not helpful.

I really like Good Old Boat but I normally get it at the local West Marine, I understand I would save a few dollars by subscribing, but it gives me a reason to head to the marine supply. (remember I am still boat shopping so I don't yet have a NEED to go there yet)


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

endoit said:


> Has this happened to any other member? I extended my subscription in January of 2012 for 2 years at $36+ with one of the numerous promos send to my house. As usual I documented the subscription expiration so I would not pay before January 2014 as these companies hit you early for more money. My magazines stopped coming after the November 2012 issue. Today I received an email to reniew at $39+ for 2 years and I realized that I was shorted. I called both 800 telephone numbers listed in the publication and was told that my subscription was only for 1 year. I advised each of the two subscription specialist that this did not make any sense considering current 2 year subscription cost. I was told by one to jump on the promotion promptly as this is a deal that will not last and by other to fax him a copy of the little stub that came with the old promo for review and correction. Sooo unless I am willing to look through my 2012 IRS folders to take a chance that it is there I am out of luck. Wondering if I am the only one so lucky?


I have had this happen with numerous magazines recently. I have decided that at this time I will be forgoing any further subscriptions to any of them. Recently it was Field and Stream. Sent me a nice almost nasty, letter demanding payment for a subscription I ordered. Checked my bank records, sure enough they had been payed over a month prior. they of course said they had not. recieved two magazines of that sub.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

miatapaul said:


> I subscribed for a year several years ago when they had a deal for around $10. I have thought that I might subscribe again, and I think there including "full access" to the past issues is what I want. I understand they used to do quite good boat reviews and that might be helpful in my search. Your experience is making me think twice.
> 
> I also am not sure how many issues they put out in a year. They have a deal now for a years subscription and it lists 7 issues, but if you opt for the digital format it is 12 issues?!? not sure what is up with that. And there web page looks to have been designed 20 years ago. Not that I think it needs to be pretty, but there are a bunch of drop down menus where it is not helpful.


When I first subscribed, I did the same thing- got the 7 issue special, but they don't really tell you when the 7 issues ends, they immediately start sending renewal notices, seems like I would get one every two weeks, even after I renewed. And the renewal notices do not tell you your subscription expiration date- would be so easy to do.

When I did have my subscription, I read every mag they had on-line in the archives section, and I think they had every mag they ever published, so that was interesting.


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## GMFL (Jun 9, 2010)

casey1999 said:


> seems like I would get one every two weeks, even after I renewed. And the renewal notices do not tell you your subscription expiration date- would be so easy to do.


I get this too with all subs it seems lately. Hate those "don't miss an issue, your subscription is ending soon."

However, look on the mailing label for the mag you are getting. It usually is printed on there when (or what issue) the subscription ends. My PS says Nov. 2013 and I've been getting "hurry up and renew" letters for months now.

Most likely I'll keep ignoring those letters until Feb 2014 comes around and I'll realize I hadn't received an issue in a while. You'd think those - too frequent - letters would be detrimental to their goal?


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

As it seems with most companies today, their marketing division is probably contracted out. And the contract probably has some kind of bonus paid to the marketing company based on number of subscriptions sold. The marketers do not always have the best interest of the company in mind.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

The online archives are definitely worth having - but I had to jump through multiple hoops to get access. I don't know if I'll be renewing. 

Now Good Old Boat, can't say enough good things about them.


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## juggleandhope (Jun 4, 2012)

ordered the "recommended" icom m24, partly because PS mentioned there'd be one less part to lose. but in order to charge it you have to take off the on/off knob and a thin gasket, insert the charging cable and then (however many hours later) find the 2 little plastic pieces and put it all back together. this will prevent loss of crucial parts?


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## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

I know this is an old thread but I recently subscribed and cannot get online access. The 800 number is useless and no one seems home at customer service. Terrible.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Missingyou said:


> I know this is an old thread but I recently subscribed and cannot get online access. The 800 number is useless and no one seems home at customer service. Terrible.


I think I had issues getting access, don't think I really did anything other than kept trying to access it. Yes the CS seems very sub par, but it is a small staff so I guess that is the issue, they don't have enough staff to have customer device, and the company they pay to do it is not doing it correctly.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As a former subscriber, I get frequent and routine email solicitations. I'm going to "unsubscribe" next time.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Too bad, I was a long term subscriber too and eventually stopped for the reasons outlined in this thread.


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

I had a snail mail reminder a week ago. It went directly into our blue recycle bin.

Is there not a PS tester here on Sailnet? It is hard to understand how the PS owners could ignore so many complaints. They must have deep pockets.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I too was a long time subscriber and supporter of PS. My enthusiasm waned a few years ago, first with the increasing barrage of "RENEW NOW!" notices I started to get long before my current subscription had expired. Accessing online resources was never easy, and getting support was impossible. But the kicker was a sudden onslaught of spam from them a couple of years ago. I used all their online tools to stop the flood. No luck. I tried personal emails. No go. I finally had to get belligerent, and sent notes to the editorial address. This finally got results, but sadly too late. They'd already lost me.

It's unfortunate b/c I found their articles very helpful, especially when I was starting out as a boat owner. I really support the principle of removing advertising pressure from mags like this, but I feel they either went through some sort of corporate change, or perhaps the finances started to get too tight. Whatever happened, it certainly chased me away.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

i_amcdn said:


> I had a snail mail reminder a week ago. It went directly into our blue recycle bin.
> 
> Is there not a PS tester here on Sailnet? It is hard to understand how the PS owners could ignore so many complaints. They must have deep pockets.


Unfortunately I think it the actions of a desperate company. Seems the magazine is getting thinner as far as real reviews. They don't do as many boat reviews, and that I would think would be the cheapest and easiest thing to do. Call up a local dealer, introduce yourself and I can't imagine they would not offer to take you out. Used boat reviews would be easier, who would not like to have there boat reviewed? I think it is good to do very through reviews like the bottom paint, on the other hand last month's review of AIS receivers was useless. Basically said yup, they both turn on, both good units, this one is slightly better than that one on one thing, this one better at that at another. But both are recommended. Seems if they contacted the manufacturer they should be been able to get several. And if you recommend both equally then you really don't have a review, but an advertisement.

It worries me as it only leaves Good Old Boat as a useful publication. While I love reading that, it really does not do any comparisons between products.

I agree to that PS seems to spam way to much. If they have not figured out that they are not going to be able to compete with Amazon and other on line retailers on books, then they are truly lost. The only way to make money selling things on line is if you have an advantage on price, provide superior service or sell something no one else does. There spam does none of that.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Haven't subscribed to PS in a long time, partly because even the mag staff have been known to concede that the subscription folks, who are apparently all a separate location and operation, can be a nightmare to deal with. There's a Doctor Suess riff about _not _liking green eggs with my ham, Sam, or some such that seems to come to mind.

Postcards and deals and funny math and odd timing...Maybe the PS mag staff need to do a review of aggressive subscription departments, huh?

What I've noticed in recent years is magazines that add a "postage and handling" fee onto their subscription offers. OK, postage, extra, huh? So I guess I can skip that by picking up my magazines in person? Or, no, wait, didn't the definition of "subscription" used to mean "we'll _send _that to you" ?

I know it is hard to make a buck writing or publishing these days, but some folks are just pushing it more than a little too hard. Like the ebook sellers, who complain about how expensive it is to print and ship and store and destroy unsold paper books, but somehow, they often discount the ebooks less than 10%? Oh, look, there's a hand in my pocket! Kindly offering to pick it!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> I know it is hard to make a buck writing or publishing these days, but some folks are just pushing it more than a little too hard. Like the ebook sellers, who complain about how expensive it is to print and ship and store and destroy unsold paper books, but somehow, they often discount the ebooks less than 10%? Oh, look, there's a hand in my pocket! Kindly offering to pick it!


Yes, especially when the "ebook" is just a collection of old articles. So if you are a subscriber it is nothing new, and even if you are a subscriber, you can read the info on line so no reason to buy it separate. I got there two volume "guide to buying a sailboat" for three dollars off amazon. It is from the 1980's but that is when most of the info is applicable to my search, but had I been a regular subscriber and payed full price I would have been upset but for $3 it is worth having in the bathroom to read.


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## hriehl1 (Aug 8, 2007)

While I will concede that Practical Sailor's email solicitations to buy what are esentially aggregated reprints is a PITA, I still find they offer good value. I have learned a great deal reading PS over the years. 

While their product tests won't always get it right, they apply a whole lot more rigor than I ever could. In the long run over many purchases spending a lot of dough, I feel they've steered me pretty well and certainly earned their keep.

That their website gives access to all issues back to 1998 is BIG. One could take the time to download and save all PDFs and have a nice portable research library. Use their current website Search function to list the issues where a particular topic was discussed and read all germane articles at your leisure.

And while I too am a fan of Good Old Boat, they lay on the schmaltzy "we are family" bit pretty thick. But they too earn their keep.

They way I look at it... if either saves me even a couple hours shopping, or planning a repair or upgrade... or steers me to a competent but less-expensive product, it has paid for itself for the year. Both meet that criteria.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I quit reading PS 35 years ago when they wrote a piece on the Valiant 32 claiming it was a "coastal cruiser". If ever there was an overbuilt boat it was the Valiant 32.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I subscribed once (never renewed) several years ago. I found it less useful than I had hoped, mostly because it focused on boats and gear that were not for me. They lost me completely when they reviewed knives, the least expensive of which was over $100. Not in my lifetime. I also found the writing dry, dry dry. Consumer Reports shows time and again that this type of publication can have a personality and still provide a serious service.

Now, for some reason that I forget, I signed up for a PS email newsletter. I thought I would be getting at least some editorial content, but its really just been ads for PS and whatever they happen to be humping this month (free shipping on books as it turns out). I'm still hoping that the newsletter will actually provide something of value in return for my attention to their ads.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I share your annoyances with over-aggressive emails, but am a little more forgiving. It's very tough being in the publishing industry today, especially on a topic as specialized as sailboats. I think it's good to have them around.

When they put their entire back issue history online the subscription became far more useful to me. While I could capture it for future reading, I'll probably continue to subscribe to have it handy, and to support their valuable efforts.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

When I go into some marine stores that sell the rag, I see months of back issues still on the shelf. Meanwhile, the other rags only have recent month issues. Heck, even the british rags are newer and gone before the PS rags of a month or three ago. I have to admit, too much like CR to me, have not felt that rag is worth the funds or reviews either. 

Just me!

marty

........a Valient 32 a coastal cruiser?!?!?! probably said the same thing about a westsail......or CR can not recommend pickups, as they ride to rough! the ones they review have SOFT suspensions. they should take a ride in my navistar dumptruck!LOLOL


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## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

I finally got a response to one of my Customer Service requests today! Yee hah!


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

I swear I get crap from them every week about signing up again.

Their "boat reviews" are fairly mediocre and the articles are really meh. I really subscribed for access to the boat reviews, but I realized soon after they weren't as good as info found for free online. I'm pretty sure I am signed up for 2 years, I guess I won't hold my breath that they will continue coming, but I don't care that much TBH.

As for Good Old Boat, I've found it really useful, I just wish it was monthly and that they had better back access to articles. Having to order a physical copy of an old edition is an antiquated idea, I wish they had them all on their website like PS. At the same time, if it keeps them in business, so be it. I'd rather that than the current situation we have with PS.

Along the same lines, I wish someone would do more blunt boat reviews. I've yet to see a boat review that wasn't somewhat passive aggressive about a boat sucking. Let's face it, there are crappy boats out there and mediocre boats with substantial restrictions (or even good boats with still substantial restrictions). I wish some of these reviews would be more bold about what sucks and what doesn't.



bobperry said:


> I quit reading PS 35 years ago when they wrote a piece on the Valiant 32 claiming it was a "coastal cruiser". If ever there was an overbuilt boat it was the Valiant 32.


But it has a skeg hung rudder! Couldn't possibly be used outside of a river. Sheesh, n00b.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

a. No ad revenue.

b. Few conventional mags will ever say anything negative about the product of an advertiser or potential future advertiser. Every vendor is one or the other.

c. Some topics are inherently loaded with personal preference. Pick-ups, for example. For a work truck I care about power and durability, for a salesman's vehicle I might be guided by salesman preference, and for a family vehicle the wife will have input. Best for who? I'm sure there are many sailors that consider anything under 40 feet a coastal cruiser.

d. Most articles involve testing. Though there are always limits to what is tested (all lab work involves stating the limits and details of a test), testing always takes longer than writing a bit of fluff about how to anchor or some cove. Perhaps 50 times longer.

e. Lamentably, articles are cut for length. Much testing and result detail never makes it because of concern that it will be "too dry."

----

Room for improvement? Write a letter to the editor. I have written to many mags and you would be surprised how often they make some change.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Shinook said:


> As for Good Old Boat, I've found it really useful, I just wish it was monthly and that they had better back access to articles. Having to order a physical copy of an old edition is an antiquated idea, I wish they had them all on their website like PS. At the same time, if it keeps them in business, so be it. I'd rather that than the current situation we have with PS.


I just got my digital Nov/Dec copy, and I see they are offering just what you ask for Shinook. Take a look here: AudioSeaStories.com



pdqaltair said:


> a. No ad revenue.
> 
> b. Few conventional mags will ever say anything negative about the product of an advertiser or potential future advertiser. Every vendor is one or the other.
> 
> c. Some topics are inherently loaded with personal preference...


I agree with everything you say pdqaltair. Unfortunately for me, and many others posting here, it wasn't the content, but the attitude (for lack of a better term) that turned me away. Their constant badgering for renewals, their complete unresponsiveness around their website issues, and finally their incessant spamming, are the main reasons I stopped subscribing.


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## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

I've been a subscriber for the last few years, and have found customer service to be quick and helpful. That being said, there are numerous 3rd party subscription scams out there. I'm not 100% sure how it works, but I am very careful to only subscribe on the mag's website. There is way too much junk mail, I do not like to encourage it. Given the condition of the print publication industry, I do not purchase multi-year subscriptions. Having a magazine cease publishing 1 year into a 3 year subscription is no fun. This year my renewal was $72.00/year instead of the 36/yr. I did not renew. After a month or two they offered a $36.00 subscription, which I took. But in general, keeping track of magazine subscriptions has become a PITA.


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## tglaude (Dec 17, 2014)

I found Practical Sailor to be the Bermuda Triangle of magazine subscription payments ...


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I read them in the library.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Some of the editorial staff used to diplomatically say "We've got nothing to do with that [subscription] department."

It is so good to know nothing has changed.

They'll now auto-renew your subscription for you, even if you have specifically selected NOT to auto-renew. I guess no one remembers how AOL got in trouble for doing things like that.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

They lost me last this year. Received in mail cut price sub deal, went on line to renew only to find out that I couldn't renew on line and get the deal. I had to write back to them. Silly really cos I havn't used snail mail (other than Xmas and BDay cards) in years.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

They aren't the only ones. I got a "twist my arm please!" deal from National Geographic, all of ten or twelve bucks for a year, plus a bonus. Great! But the credit card would automatically be renewed, and I didn't want to mail a check, so I went to the supplied URL to subscribe online.

And found the online offers totally different and way more expensive, of course.

Sent in the paper offer with a check (since that can't be automatically rebilled) and they bushed me again, sending an invoice for $3.95 shipping and handling. Which I'd swear was not on the original offer, I can read well enough if no one is trying to hide things.

Took three weeks of email arguments (they take a week to respond to email, despite the "48 hours" they claim) before they would cancel the subscription and give me a refund of my money. And of course, they sent 3 magazines, reflecting three months, in a two-week period. Hmmm....

I have to say the "usual" sailing mags are absolute angels compared to what so much of the magazine business has become.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

You guys think PS is bad, you ought to see XM radio's subscription service... Not a bad service if you get it at the discount, but they auto-renew at 5 months, not 6, not 12.. .and the price is almost triple.

I think what you are seeing is a way to exploit otherwise busy people. The shrewd buyer notices and calls them out on it... the average busy person misses it and then wonders why the heck the bill is so high.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

XM radio...poor guys. When you can put a thousand albums in high quality audio on a $50 USB stick these days...I guess they'll have to make money servicing the sports and talk show fans, huh?


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I went to re-up my Sports Illustrated subscription on line (best rate available), and found out that the only offer they had on line was with an automatic renewal. I called subscription services and spoke with a woman who tried to convince me that as soon as I hit "send" on the order, she would see it and she would cancel the auto renewal. I didn't like that and we went round and round. She finally sent me to a supervisor who said he would manually take my credit card info so I didn't get the auto renewal. Gave me a better rate too.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

I have to say to credit PS that I have not seen an email from them since June 12th when my subscription expired. Could be that I marked it spam, I don't remember. Perhaps they got the hint. Funny thing about there "archive" books is you are paying for the archive of the same material they make available free to subscribers. And yes I will not do "automatic renewal." They always seem to hit your account at the worst time.


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