# Looks like they landed on their feet



## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

An update to the story about the young couple from Colorado whose boat sunk in Florida on the second day of their dream sail:

Couple whose dream boat sank finally set sail on 'new adventure'


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

Find it interesting that they are starting their 2nd voyage just as a tropical disturbance moves north into the Gulf - while not much now - anything in the Gulf can quickly gain strength and gain speed - they state they will be close to shore - but what happens if the weather goes down hill fast - they are 30 miles from the next port and the engine quits ( article states they had been working on it for weeks) - lots of entrances on the Gulf side of Florida but a lot of shoaling and some are tricky - they could be heading for another grounding - oh well - maybe second time they will find a benefactor with a new larger boat to donate.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Really bad timing regardless of whom they have along this time. The summer wind and storm pattern started early this year and the extended forecast is for daily squalls with electrical storms until at least mid August with only a scattering of days with a few hours of clear weather before noontime. The sailing forecast for the remainder of this week shows that after the clear hours this morning/early afternoon that sailing conditions are going to degrade steadily over the next few days. Yesterday we had to cancel the EScow event for the third week in a row now due to the weather here just a couple of miles North of the marina they are currently docked at.

Winds currently are only 8 mph over the peninsula however that usually means 14 to 16 mph on the Gulf with gusts to 20 mph or greater. Monday it was blowing a steady 20 mph with gusts to over 28 mph and not so great for inexperienced sailors heading out in areas with uncharted shifting shoals. Squalls yesterday were milder and less frequent however still prevented you from seeing much past the front bumper of your car stopping traffic when they passed.


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## drew1711 (May 22, 2004)

You guys both beat me to it. I was really empathetic when they lost the first boat but just groaned when I read this story. A tropical storm...


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## CarbonSink (Mar 12, 2010)

"We’re definitely more ready, but also more cautious because the worst that can happen has happened to us," she said.

Umm, no. A grounding and slow sinking at the harbor entrance is not the worst that can happen.

It's clearly on the 'Bad Things' list, but far from the worst.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

> As they prepared to shove off, Walsh told the Tampa Bay Times they were "keeping an eye" on the weather system rolling north in the Gulf of Mexico, which meteorologists gave a 40 percent chance of developing into a tropical depression or tropical storm over the next five days.


This beggars belief.

Utterly insane.

I haven't flicked up NOAA so don't know the projected track but if it's anywhere near them they are insane.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Not being able to afford marina fees is always a good reason to shove off despite any weather warnings. And I am glad to see they have a solid plan which includes bouncing around the Caribbean with definite stops in Cuba and Bahamas.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Shouldn't someone rescue the 3 dogs on board, they are the only innocents involved in this misguided "adventure", well I guess the pug ought to know better.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

I don't want to see them learn another lesson the hard way, they sound like nice enough folks. 

So please, weather Gods, give them a miss? But just enough wind and seas to give them a bit less cavalier attitude towards You??


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

I sincerely hope this isn't going to be the same story with the same ending. Do people have such large egos that they choose not to learn from other's mistakes? Is it just ignorance? Do they really believe they are special and some how the laws of nature don't apply to them. How do they plan on getting those dogs into another Country...assuming they make it to the East Coast of FL? WTF??? I'm usually not a very negative person...maybe I'm just jealous.... makes for an interesting story anyways...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coast-guard-searching-dad-teens-missing-off-florida/story?id=40036099

~doo 
~not.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Looks like the weather is okay for a while. 

3 dogs on board?? With 5 people, and 3 dogs that boat is going to be real small, real soon.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

scubadoo said:


> I sincerely hope this isn't going to be the same story with the same ending. Do people have such large egos that they choose not to learn from other's mistakes? Is it just ignorance? Do they really believe they are special and some how the laws of nature don't apply to them. How do they plan on getting those dogs into another Country...assuming they make it to the East Coast of FL? WTF??? I'm usually not a very negative person...maybe I'm just jealous.... makes for an interesting story anyways...
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/US/coast-guard-searching-dad-teens-missing-off-florida/story?id=40036099
> 
> ...


That storm was predicted and not a surprise event. Sunday it got so bad you could not stand on the floating dock where I was which was quite a bit North of where that storm came up from. Those folks unfortunately sailed right into the thick of it. Doesn't anyone check the weather on anything more than a fluffy opening screen iPhone app without clicking on the radar and satellite view and drilling down to the details?

For the GoFundMe Couple - There is a major storm heading toward the Keys right now and even if it does not become a hurricane it will still bring heavy seas, tropical rains, lightning and water spouts. The next few weeks are not good ones for rounding the Keys from the Florida West Coast on a crowded boat with a mostly green crew.

They received a free boat, got the cleanup of the old one done at a bargain price leaving them with many thousands of free GoFundMe dollars to deal with moving to another bargain mooring safe from the weather. The window of opportunity may be tight for quite a while for anything except for a well seasoned crew on a meticulously maintained boat.

It might be in their best interest to go back to their jobs in Tarpon Springs until the end of Hurricane Season and use some of their winnings to take a few advanced sailing courses. I hope they at least invested in a good DepthSounder/Chart Plotter for the new boat.

Perhaps their rush is to be in Miami for the SLV meet and greet event in June.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

> Formation chance through 5 days...high...*70 percent*.


Nothing wrong with that. Theres a 30% chance the weather wont kill them immediately.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

The current satellite photos shows a huge feeder band.
As they will be on the Dangerous Quadrant they will get storm force winds well in advance of the blob.
Whether it develops of not they will be in significant do-do unless they get ashore today.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I didn’t see a reference to 3 dogs, but even properly caring for one is difficult, when one has little to no money. Is that love the animal shows, or are they just a starving prisoner trying to suck up to their captor. Want to bet it’s malnurished. It’s funny how humans project an emotion or thought process to an animal. 

As for the weather. You can’t fix stupid. Thinking they’ve seen the worst was telling.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

This storm front with its torrential rains will probably extend from East Texas to Southern New Hampshire into the Memorial Day weekend and possibly then some. Its been impacting business at the Sailing Center for over a week now and is big, mean and slow. 

The six hour downpour from it this past Sunday brought 6 foot seas and almost 9 inches of rain in six hours with that just being the outer parts of the disturbance. 

Sailing into this storm front that has potentially already claimed a family sailing in the Gulf and is already threatening to shut down airports in some areas of the State is a really bad idea for these Newbies. 

Break deep and hit bottom slamming into one of our shifting shoals in heavy weather while hugging the coastline for safety and its game over in a heartbeat. Its sad to read about these things afterwards but even worse to see the potential train wreck leaving the station.


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## ImGary01 (Feb 8, 2018)

Future Darwin Award winners??? Finalists for sure.


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## travis.taylor (Oct 2, 2017)

This is what happens when people are allowed to NOT learn from their mistakes..

Without gofundme and the bleeding hearts that make the model work, these people would have been SOL
and might have taken the realities of this sort of lifestyle a little more seriously..

Kinda like when a 16 kid wrecks the brand new camaro that his parents bought him. Insurance covers the loss and the kid gets another new car and learns nothing of the consequences of his/her actions...


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

ImGary01 said:


> Future Darwin Award winners??? Finalists for sure.


I'm putting on some popcorn for these folks.


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## FLFrers36 (Feb 13, 2016)

They say that Einstein was a lousy sailor.These 2 are brilliant


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

If they haven't made a safe haven by now, it "Looks like they landed" right in the $hit again. Maybe different $hit, but $hit none the less. 
I wonder if they'll play their *get out of trouble free at the taxpayer's expense* card? Enquiring minds want to know....


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

People from Colorado tend to not be deep thinkers, I know because I operate a business here and depend upon people who are NOT from Colorado for employees. There is a reason that the pot legalization law was supported by a majority of the population, and this type of reasoning is a great example.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

Did these folks pay to clean up the mess left by their previous boat? I wish them well, but ... Don't set out into a storm!!


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Scotty C-M said:


> Did these folks pay to clean up the mess left by their previous boat? I wish them well, but ... Don't set out into a storm!!


They collected around $16,000 from the GoFundMe by the last count and then held out for a salver that was willing to do it for half price (around $3,000) however that took so long after they already collected double the full amount to salvage the boat (they had the required funds a few days after running aground) that it broke up so they potentially ended up with around $13,000 extra and a $1/free boat.

Don't wish them ill either however they do seem to have a knack for courting disaster.

If disaster comes again who or what will they blame this time? They claim now that they hit a submerged piling out in the entrance to the pass however no one that I have heard of, not even the Army Corp of Engineers who surveyed the site for hazards to navigation, has reported finding it.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Looks like by Sunday things will be snotty. Winds 30 gusting in to the 40's and waves 8ft with a 6 second period. Tropical storm west of Florida.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

If they hustle and can get from Tampa to the Keys quickly (which I sort of doubt given likely headwinds and inexperience), into the Gulf Stream and around to the east coast, they might be all right. But this system seems to have a big East side so who knows.

Were they too tall for the cross-Florida canal? If not, that would have been the less glamorous but smarter way to go, plenty of room for them in Stuart or Jensen Beach on the Atlantic end.

Are they in touch with anyone ashore so all us armchair admirals don't have to guess? Where are they right now? Is everything on the $1.00 boat still working okay?

This could be like Rimas or Reid Stowe for those of you who loiter over on Sailing Anarchy. Anyway, I hope not.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

They had a YouTube channel, iirc. How about Facebook, which is usually more current, assuming they are near land with a signal. I don’t have a Facebook account to check.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

This is the female's Instagram account that was listed in the article in the first post. Some info if you click on the photo with the crew on the boat.
https://www.instagram.com/nikkiwanderwalsh/


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

They will enjoy those 8 foot seas on a 6 second period.

That part of the Gulf is still shallow, isn't it? Do harbors become inaccessible in those seas?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

JimsCAL said:


> This is the female's Instagram account that was listed in the article in the first post. Some info if you click on the photo with the crew on the boat.
> https://www.instagram.com/nikkiwanderwalsh/


Posted 14 hours ago Marco Island

Where's that?

Is that safe?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Posted 14 hours ago Marco Island
> 
> Where's that?
> 
> Is that safe?


It's about 70 miles north of the Keys on the west coast of FL.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> It's about 70 miles north of the Keys on the west coast of FL.


I was anchored there 3 nights 2 weeks ago waiting for an easterly to pass...cape romano/george beach.
Zero protection from the south.
Little shark river is a days run.
Iirc...will be 12-20 depths across to keys.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

Best if they stay there. A few days and the weather should pass. I hope the words, "don't push your luck" pass through their conscious thought process.

https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick...&map_x=154&map_y=244&x=154&y=244#.WwhTveSWy1s


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JimsCAL said:


> This is the female's Instagram account that was listed in the article in the first post. Some info if you click on the photo with the crew on the boat.
> https://www.instagram.com/nikkiwanderwalsh/


Maybe the boat should have been renamed the SS Minnow......sure looks like the Gilligans Island crew


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Marco is a good place to stay put. There is a population centre their with marine services, fuel docks, grocery stores. Their are marked channels through the mangroves they can weather a storm in provided their draft is reasonable.

After Marco, their is mostly wilderness until they reach the keys.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

My wild guess is that they are very antsy to get going on their dream.
They get noaa on radio and weather via cell if very close.
But i suspect they dont yet know how weather will affect them...little experience.

Once you get into the ring....it can be hard to get out before the 12th round bell.

I wish them well. They will be tired for sure and beat up a tad...and starting to learn more. It takes time


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Minnewaska said:


> It's about 70 miles north of the Keys on the west coast of FL.


This is whats at Marco Island as of 10PM today and what they would have been sailing into if they left earlier today.

The preamble to that passed earlier here in Tampa at around 3:30 PM with some pretty heavy lightning and it was very intense at times. I just barely made it removing a broken clutch cable from my car and almost did not get the top up in time it came in so fast and furious going from clear and sunny to a tropical downpour in a few heartbeats. The replacement part will be in tomorrow at around noon however by then it may be too foul to work outside on the car never mind be out sailing in the Gulf. South of here will already be well into the thick of things.

That Pedrick 36 is a fixed keel boat that draws 5.67 feet of water and has a mast about 46 feet above the deck. Not the best candidate for the Lake Okeechobee waterway or really any of our shallow bays and intercoastals.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1972


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## elliowb (Jun 8, 2015)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> This beggars belief.
> 
> Utterly insane.
> 
> I haven't flicked up NOAA so don't know the projected track but if it's anywhere near them they are insane.


But they're only "scurrying the coast" (whatever the heck that means, must be one of them thar nautical terms that they didn't teach us at the Maritime Academy). They'll be just fine. :eek

-- Bill
Belle Voile
PSC 34


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm posting this wishing them the best of luck. At least they are out there living their dream and they do share the voyage a little bit. From instagram:

"Today was hell, staying with 3 dogs and 5 people on a small space can get out of control! 
We are all finally in agreement to be grateful for being able to shower in a marina today in Marco island! You definitely get crusty when you spend days at sea! "


I didn't see Alberto coming, but I definately saw this.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Sal Paradise said:


> We are all finally in agreement to be grateful for being able to shower in a marina today in Marco island!


Well, there goes half their cruising budget! MI is definitely *not* the cheapest place to hang out waiting out the weather.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Look at the latest hurricane centre wind predictions.

I said they would be in the Dangerous Quadrant... But look at HOW Dangerous that Quadrant is compared to the other side. In fact the whole NHC chart looks total BS because the center is in clear weather! 
All the bad weather is far to the right of the center. Crazy. The NHC should make this more obvious.

So the west coast of Florida is going to get a real good touch up, by the looks.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

capta said:


> Well, there goes half their cruising budget! MI is definitely *not* the cheapest place to hang out waiting out the weather.


Guessing they will stay there for another 5 days or so.
Im in marathon and short blasts hit off and on.
Outer effects of this storm...not in its direct path.

Forecasted to calm down this area Thu coming week. Very little real sun for almost 2 weeks.

Eau de wet dog will grow old fast.
No way 5 can live on that boat...with or without the pups.
Expect exits...


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

She made her first YouTube video. I watched it. Nice looking boat, but leaking diesel into bilge and fairly rough looking teak decks.

I'm thinking maybe the Dad knows what he is doing. I see some good decisions. Fix major problems. Hide at marina in Marco for weather to pass, expensive, but probably smart.

Pure vagabond, she cried for the camera for 20 seconds for potential patreons. I didnt see anything unsafe though.

They are staying at lots of bling Marina's, but that might just be a function of where they are.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

There are non bling marinas there...afaik.
Crying.....not bad...but need to plan and tailor it properly.
Gotta grab their hearts/wallets
Dont over do it....


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

At the Center we were discussing Marco Island as an anchorage for an almost 6 foot draft fixed keel vessel in a storm and in most places the chances of bouncing off the bottom are pretty high especially with the extra weight of all the passengers, dogs and provisions sitting her lower in the water and making her break deeper when underway. Yes much more expensive too in the upscale Marco resort area then if they had stayed put in St Pete or gone back to the marina in Tarpon Springs to work and get more experience with the new boat.

At the Center today we cranked up our floating docks and pulled all our boats off the water and into their pens. We even took the fast deployment rescue boats off their lifts and put them on trailers in the yard. The last squall hit the floating docks too hard so when it got calm enough today we pulled them up. The steady winds predicted the last time I looked will be around 45 mph or so at the height of the storm (that prediction changes by the minute it seems, going up and down but the predictions will get more steady the closer it approaches) and we will be getting winds coming in onshore from the leading edge so wave action and tidal surges should be more severe on the West Coast of Florida than the East Coast of Texas especially since the bulk of the water vapor is more concentrated on the East side of this misshapen storm.

Windsurfers are loving it however its been a bummer for those attending the regattas scheduled this weekend. A real disappointment for many considering all the months of preparation they put in for them. Today and Sunday Davis Island has the Schools Out Regatta scheduled and yesterday was the 100 mile Tampa to Ft Myers Annual Race followed up by their Memorial Day event on Monday. We'll have to see how that plays out. Have been too busy to check in to see how the coaches attending those events are doing.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Just watched their "Can I get on with my sailing life?" video and saw kids using a pressure washer barefoot and spraying each other down with it. Stains from long standing leaks in the top of the salon, bad decking, etc, etc making the boat appear like its requires long overdue maintenance and has many potential issues from the lack of it that need to be addressed immediately. Did they pull this one out of the water and inspect the hull or what? On a boat in that rough shape that's been sitting neglected as long as that one has it needs to be pulled out and the keel, rudder, every seacock, through hull, chain plate and so on needs to be inspected along with the area around them sounded for core issues. I did not see a blue water offshore cruise ready boat by any means but just another example of a potential landfill boat that's been neglected for way too long. Yes at one time it was probably a pretty nice boat but...

Perhaps I am too critical after seeing way too many of these neglected boats lately but this one does not appear to be really ready to leave the dock to cruise the harbor yet never mind put out in the Gulf, sail the Keys and head out to the Islands. 

How much does a free or $1 boat really cost? They really need to break out another thousand quite a few more times on this one as far as I am concerned if they are going to use it for more than a floating apartment permanently moored to a dock.

Sorry but I did not see a whole lot of good preparation here.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SeaStar58 said:


> Perhaps I am too critical after seeing way too many of these neglected boats lately but this one does not appear to be really ready to leave the dock to cruise the harbor yet never mind put out in the Gulf, sail the Keys and head out to the Islands.
> 
> How much does a free or $1 boat really cost? They really need to break out another thousand quite a few more times on this one as far as I am concerned if they are going to use it for more than a floating apartment permanently moored to a dock.
> 
> Sorry but I did not see a whole lot of good preparation here.





SeaStar58 said:


> Sorry but I did not see a whole lot of good preparation here.


What do you mean? In the video she was so proud (thanks to the father) they final figured out how the water system works even after having the boat for a while. Yeah they are ready for the Bahamas. Though being stressed out and crying before they've left the dock is not a good omen.  Wait until she finds out that the air conditioner won't work unless they are at a marina. Usually a lot of dreamers might last two years cruising. I'm thinking two months might be it for this gal. We'll see.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

SeaStar58 said:


> Marco Island as an anchorage for an almost 6 foot draft fixed keel vessel in a storm and in most places the chances of bouncing off the bottom are pretty high


I anchored a 72' shrimp trawler w/an 8' draft in Marco (near the bridge) for quite a while w/o any problems at all. Well,that's not exactly true; I had lotsa problems with the local snobs who didn't like seeing my shrimp boat anchored within their sight. But that's another story.
However, that was some years back and I can't say if the area has shoaled enough to make anchoring a vessel w/a 6' draft difficult.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

> "We're definitely more ready, but also more cautious because the worst that can happen has happened to us,"


THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN???? This statement alone proves that they have no clue. Classic "don't know what they don't know" dilemma.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I cut through Marco to avoid taking a beating off Cape Romano this winter (15-20 knot NE, 16' boat). The way I remember it is there are basically two distinct Anchorage/marina areas. 

One to the North and one to the South. I am guessing they are in the marina in the river/channel to the north. About $80/night for a slip. I think there is plenty of water in that area for 6' draft.

The one I took was to the South. Sketchy bar crossing, I clipped bottom several times with 3' rudders and nearly capsized when a rudder kicked up and we broached in the surf. I think that area would be less suitable for a 35' sailboat. 

I stopped into a marina gas dock, bought a 12 case of water, 2 salami sandwiches and 2 ice cream sandwiches, $48...

However, if one were to enter that same south channel from the South and East of Cape Romano, I think it might be a good, safe free Anchorage.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

capta said:


> I anchored a 72' shrimp trawler w/an 8' draft in Marco (near the bridge) for quite a while w/o any problems at all. Well,that's not exactly true; I had lotsa problems with the local snobs who didn't like seeing my shrimp boat anchored within their sight. But that's another story.
> However, that was some years back and I can't say if the area has shoaled enough to make anchoring a vessel w/a 6' draft difficult.


Near the bridge in fair weather your 8 foot draft shrimp boat would probably be fine however an overloaded poorly maintained sailboat in potential 35 mph winds with gusts to 60 in an anchorage where most marinas are more likely 8 to 12 feet deep well that's another story. We're unfortunately are not talking about well seasoned sailors or highly responsible far sighted thinkers here.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Arcb said:


> I cut through Marco to avoid taking a beating off Cape Romano this winter (15-20 knot NE, 16' boat). The way I remember it is there are basically two distinct Anchorage/marina areas.
> 
> One to the North and one to the South. I am guessing they are in the marina in the river/channel to the north. About $80/night for a slip. I think there is plenty of water in that area for 6' draft.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct about the Goodland area of Marco. When I ran the Yacht Tennis Club marina on the NE side of the island, that Goodland area was mostly inhabited by drug smugglers and the channel was unmarked and treacherous. Perhaps today the "shanty town" has been replaced by more stranger friendly inhabitants and the area cleaned up some, but I can't see it ever becoming the sort of snobby "gated community" that MI town was.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

mbianka said:


> What do you mean? In the video she was so proud (thanks to the father) they final figured out how the water system works even after having the boat for a while. Yeah they are ready for the Bahamas. Though being stressed out and crying before they've left the dock is not a good omen.  Wait until she finds out that the air conditioner won't work unless they are at a marina. Usually a lot of dreamers might last two years cruising. I'm thinking two months might be it for this gal. We'll see.


And they fixed what broke and started flooding the cockpit with water on the first marina cruise, obviously it was just a odd failure and not a systemic problem with how poorly maintained the boat is. Yes indeed and now that they found the switch to turn the water plus put an AC duct for a roll about through the deck their ready for whatever the deep blue throws at them. Don't be concerned about breathing in those white and black mold spores in the salon either. For the Doctor that sold it to them for $1 it could have been the second happiest day of his life as a boat owner unloading all that maintenance on someone else without having to pay someone to take it away.

I hope the next failure or other bit of drama happens at the dock where assistance is close by and not far offshore.

Meanwhile until that rough splintery deck is repaired don't walk barefoot on it anymore. Think they have a tetanus shot or two in their med kit?


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I hope these kids wind up being the Lin and Larry Pardey or Fatty and Caroline Goodlander of the future and prove all you naysayers wrong. At least they are out there giving it a shot. What's the point of belittling them? They are inexperienced... so what. So am I. Not once have I sailed the Southern Ocean. My nads aren't that big.... are yours ? Just because they grew up in a different era with a different set of constructs doesn't make them wrong. Oh, they set up a Go Fund Me account, boo hoo... they'll never learn the proper lesson. Give me a break. Mark Zuckerberg came up with face book, if we're so damn smart why didn't we come up with it? Point being that these kids took advantage of something that was available to them. That's what humans do. Nothing inherently wrong with it.
Even if they don't succeed they will be the better for giving it a try. Once again I manage to succumb to a contrarian point of view.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I dont see people here belittling them


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

contrarian said:


> I hope these kids wind up being the Lin and Larry Pardey or Fatty and Caroline Goodlander of the future and prove all you naysayers wrong. At least they are out there giving it a shot. What's the point of belittling them? They are inexperienced... so what. So am I. Not once have I sailed the Southern Ocean. My nads aren't that big.... are yours ? Just because they grew up in a different era with a different set of constructs doesn't make them wrong. Oh, they set up a Go Fund Me account, boo hoo... they'll never learn the proper lesson. Give me a break. Mark Zuckerberg came up with face book, if we're so damn smart why didn't we come up with it? Point being that these kids took advantage of something that was available to them. That's what humans do. Nothing inherently wrong with it.
> Even if they don't succeed they will be the better for giving it a try. Once again I manage to succumb to a contrarian point of view.


People still need to know some basics before selling everything and heading off. Pointing out their inexperience and errors may help others who have similar dreams of selling everything and heading out. You don't need to be in the southern ocean to die on a boat when things go south. Seen numerous cases even in Long Island Sound where inexperience ended in deaths. You've got to know your boat and if you are traveling under a severe budget you better be able to repair a lot of things yourself. Like them finding out how the boat's water system worked, where the pump was located was a revelation on their second boat. Next it was on to bilge pump!
I was even disappointed in the latest Wicked Salty episode a couple who I admired for their get up an go attitude. They made it to Bahamas and back. Yeah, they made some mistakes along the way but, they made their goal. Then they sold that boat and boat for a bigger one. Unfortunately that boat sunk because of a loose hose clamp. That had to be a tough learning experience for them. But, should be a red flag to those who think that just because the boat is floating does not mean things will not fail suddenly if you don't check simple things like hoses on seacocks. They bought another boat and had a water and smoke condition while underway recently. Fellow did not seem to know that the salt water injection elbow failed. I thought he would have had more experience of boat systems after having done the Bahamas trip. This couple seems to know even less and is less prepared IMO. I doubt they will ever be on par with Lin and Larry Pardy.

BTW FYI Zuckerberg was sued for stealing the Facebook idea and paid out tens of millions of dollars in settlement costs.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

People pressure washing each other and hop, skip, patching their now second landfill boat together with hopes of sailing out in Blue Water is just a recipe for disaster. 

Quite a big difference between those that did their homework and put a solid business plan into effect to what these guys are doing. Its like watching a slow motion train wreck at times or seeing a child just out of arms reach about to dart out in front of a moving bus. Tears at the heart of any parent here. When you see the parents assisting them in sailing off into a known storm on a boat that is anything but seaworthy overloaded with that menagerie of dogs and people just adds to the potential for this to turn into a group Darwin Event. They were very fortunate the last time when they went down in the evening at feeding time and a bull shark did not take one of them. The sharks are at times lined up like stacks of cord wood along the sand bars surrounding those channels outside the inter-coastal.

That boat needs a lot more work to safely make the trip that they are intending through the Keys and up the East Coast never mind the Islands and Points South. It needs a lot of work just to make the decks safe to walk on from what I saw when I paused the fast jerky video that they last posted of the boat "Ready to Go".

If they make it, sheer luck may be the only factor at play, not methodically doing the right thing and following best practice.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I have a real bad feeling in my gut about this one. The encouragement (and $$$) that they get from non-sailors could lead to a real tragedy. This could be a huge trainwreck playing out right before our eyes.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

mbianka said:


> I doubt they will ever be on par with Lin and Larry Pardy.


Don't put Lyn and Larry Pardy on a pedestal they should not be on!!!!!!!!

They made some stupid mistakes they will admit and do admit in every book but were too lazy or stupid to ever fix in their cruising lives!

I often write about 'sailing in the correct season'. I got it from the Pardy's! They were the ones who in their first book said how important it was. And then in that book broke the rule and were badly dusted up by it and could have died.

But moronically stupid they make the same statement and then did the same stupid, unsafe error in their next book. How dumb can you be?

And then in their last voyage book, decades later, they consciously made the same fricken mistake! The book was about going from Chile to Seattle to go to a wedding... and they missed every correct weather period to said and again nearly died.

Look at all these 'revered' crusisers and you will see people who do some things dumber than you would ever do... or that you would learn from. Hiscocks included.

Cruising is just not that difficult. But people still make mistakes.

The current couples Instagram posts have EXCLUDED one thing: A watch on the weather with this current storm. Don't you think these idiots might mention it and shwo they are learning something?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I just don't get why so many feel Lyn and Larry Pardy are the goddess and god of cruising (America’s first couple of cruising!). Could it just be a generational thing?
They had a tiny, cramped, uncomfortable boat that a child could fend off a dock and which they moved easily with a sculling oar when there was no wind. It must have been a real challenge to find enough storage for the provisions for their longer voyages and they must have been incredibly uncomfortable voyages at that.
Can you even imagine how unpleasant it would have been to be shut in below, in that tiny little home, when it rained incessantly for 4 or 5 days? I really wonder how well they got along at times like those. Perhaps that was their strong suit. Perhaps their relationship was strong enough that even in the most unpleasant times they remained in good spirits and good friends and that showed through in their publications.
But for most of us, with our boat homes filled with lots of mechanical aids, their stories of a simpler, smaller cruising stories are just that, stories of a life we do not wish to emulate.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

capta said:


> I just don't get why so many feel Lyn and Larry Pardy are the goddess and god of cruising (America's first couple of cruising!). Could it just be a generational thing?
> They had a tiny, cramped, uncomfortable boat that a child could fend off a dock and which they moved easily with a sculling oar when there was no wind. It must have been a real challenge to find enough storage for the provisions for their longer voyages and they must have been incredibly uncomfortable voyages at that.
> Can you even imagine how unpleasant it would have been to be shut in below, in that tiny little home, when it rained incessantly for 4 or 5 days? I really wonder how well they got along at times like those. Perhaps that was their strong suit. Perhaps their relationship was strong enough that even in the most unpleasant times they remained in good spirits and good friends and that showed through in their publications.
> But for most of us, with our boat homes filled with lots of mechanical aids, their stories of a simpler, smaller cruising stories are just that, stories of a life we do not wish to emulate.


Not to turn this into a Pardy thread, or to wander too far off topic, but I get why people idolized them and others like them, even these two "interesting" folks the OP linked. You are exactly right Capta, uncomfortable small vessel, easily argued as well undersized for what they were doing (the Pardy's), but they did do it so hats off to them. What draws people to them and others like it is how attainable the life seems. It's a small cheap boat and the average Joe or Jane Sailor sees what they are doing and thinks "I can do that too". It's a whole other debate if that's right or wrong, but it's undeniable: seeing someone venture the globe in something other than a million dollar boat is incredibly enticing.

I found myself early on feeling that same excitement with some youtube channels I followed. They had a boat "I" could easily own, they had skills "comparable" or sometimes "worse" than my own, and they were doing it, therefore I CAN DO IT. Every channel or blog I follow generally has people in financial positions I can relate to (money-wise and ship-wise). I don't follow anyone in a brand new Oyster because I know I'll never be the owner of one of those, and it's no different than watching billionaires on super yachts, just not my jam.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Guyfromthenorth said:


> I don't follow anyone in a brand new Oyster because I know I'll never be the owner of one of those, and it's no different than watching billionaires on super yachts, just not my jam.


And the folks in million dollar Oysters can't be bothered with youtube videos to make $100.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

ianjoub said:


> And the folks in million dollar Oysters can't be bothered with youtube videos to make $100.


Mostly true, the one obvious exception would be Vagabond. Started off in an attainable boat, ended up in a million dollar cat. No longer interesting for me, but good for them.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Guyfromthenorth said:


> It's a small cheap boat


One point I would like to make. According to the inflation calculator, that $38,000 dollar "cheap" boat (1983) is about $94,000 today.
Perhaps not realizing this is why we see so many threads by folks thinking they can get into a nice cruising boat for under 50k, on these forums.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

capta said:


> One point I would like to make. According to the inflation calculator, that $38,000 dollar "cheap" boat (1983) is about $94,000 today.
> Perhaps not realizing this is why we see so many threads by folks thinking they can get into a nice cruising boat for under 50k, on these forums.


I'm guessing that's a "new then" "new now" price? I agree Capta, in theory if someone bought new comparable boats it's totally not "cheap". I was looking at well cared for 34ft boats earlier this month in the 30-50k range, a new 34ft at the boatshow I saw last year in Toronto was 385k. When I say "cheap" I mean peoples IMPRESSION of cheap. They see someone sailing a sub 30ft boat on the ocean and then see -similar- boats for sale under 20k and that's where the inspiration comes from. Again, not saying any of it is right, but I think that's why people get held on pedestals, because their accomplishments appear attainable.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I think a few people kind of miss the mark on the philosophy of go small, go simple go now and buy the smallest boat that will suit your needs. The folks who lost their keel after a slow grounding in sand might be those folks. The advantage of going smaller is you should be able to get a nicer, safer, better equipped boat for the same money as a bigger, older worse equipped boat. The maintenance on this particular $1 boat, might represent a greater cost than if the couple had bought a much newer and better equipped but smaller boat with their GoFundMe winnings.

I would guess folks have been messing around with boats, ever since there have been boats, but they've only been doing it in popular culture for about 150 years that I know of. The first one I know of was John MacGregor, who published "1000 miles in a Rob Roy Canoe" in 1866. His boat was a 15'/80 lb sailboat/canoe highbrid that could sleep one in the bilge. He cruised the heck out of Europe and North Africa in his sailing canoes of his own designs.

MacGregor was a wealthy patent lawyer and could have afforded a much bigger boat, but that wasn't the kind of cruising experience he wanted. He wanted to be one with nature, so he chose a boat design that would get him closest to it with the least amount of hassle.

It seems ever since, some folks have preferred bigger boats, some folks have preferred smaller boats (okay, can't get much smaller than a Rob Roy Canoe), some folks prefer a boat some where in the middle, and some folks just kind of wing it.


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## travis.taylor (Oct 2, 2017)

capta said:


> One point I would like to make. According to the inflation calculator, that $38,000 dollar "cheap" boat (1983) is about $94,000 today.
> Perhaps not realizing this is why we see so many threads by folks thinking they can get into a nice cruising boat for under 50k, on these forums.


But it _is_ perfectly possible to get a nice cruising boat for under 50k, isn't it? I'd say so as long as one is content in looking for something about 35' and down. The smaller a boat you can live with, the nicer you're going to make out in my opinion.

For example, $50k USD can buy you an older but mostly turn-key Dana 24.
A Dana 24 is a hell of a boat, arguably one of the nicest truly small boats one could buy. Would I want to live on one with a partner for 20 years? No.
Would I take it on a double handed 3-4 year circumnavigation? *In a heartbeat!*

I actually hope to see myself in a Cape Dory 25D in about 5 years. When that time comes, I should be able to find one ready to go and cherry for well under $30k..

Remember that different people have different lifestyles and different needs.

I'm fond of the Pardy's not because of the "small" (everything is relative, afterall..) size of their boat, but because they built it themselves and did a *fantastic * job. Then they took it all over the effing place with hardly any of the modern creature comforts that many people deem necessary these days. I'd venture to say that few boats that cost even 5 times as much as the Pardys' see even half the NMs.. Seems an admirable way to live one's life to me...


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The blow down to the the Keys for them will end sooner than what was previously forecasted.
They should be moving again soon.

My guess is they will have a 1 month burn in period...maybe get a blinking light...have another blinker 3 months in....6 months will determine what is actually liveable/workable with crew and pets.

I wish them well.


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## drew1711 (May 22, 2004)

"_Two people were killed as subtropical storm Alberto's strong surf, powerful wind gusts and heavy rains tore across the Gulf of Mexico coast and swamped the Southeast, officials and forecasters said Monday.
Alberto, the first named storm of the hurricane season, made landfall on Florida's Panhandle on Monday afternoon, washing out the unofficial start of summer.
In Polk County, North Carolina, two television journalists were killed when a tree fell on their vehicle, state Trooper Rico Stephens said. Their station, NBC affiliate WYFF of Greenville, South Carolina, identified them as anchor Mike McCormick and photographer Aaron Smeltzer."_

This is "on topic." I hope everyone else is OK.

Here is an honest accounting of the refit of a Bristol 29.9, a great boat. This couple bought their Bristol for fifteen grand and now have $70,000 into it.

https://adventuresontheclub.com/maintenance-and-improvements-2/

Go simple, go now!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

drew1711 said:


> "_Here is an honest accounting of the refit of a Bristol 29.9, a great boat. This couple bought their Bristol for fifteen grand and now have $70,000 into it.
> Go simple, go now!_


_
I wonder what a Bristol 29.9 in Bristol condition would have cost them when they paid the 15 g's? Surely not much over half that 70 grand, and they could have been sailing all that time?_


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Guyfromthenorth said:


> Mostly true, the one obvious exception would be Vagabond. Started off in an attainable boat, ended up in a million dollar cat. No longer interesting for me, but good for them.


I thought the lad on Vagabond worked industriously as a welder on offshore oil rigs for years and saved up something to the tune of a quarter of a million dollars to finance his first boat and then that was not enough to keep things going for very long. If I recall they were about to go under financially when Outramere made them the offer. The first boat he bought cash up front with money left in the bank would not have been attainable to most people in the USA where only a relatively small 4.3% earn over $200,000 a year and only about 16% earn $100,000 to $199,999 per year while Joe Average usually earns less than $50,000 per year according to the most recent figures. Most working folks would not view a $95,000 boat as attainable as it would take a lifetime of scrimping, sacrificing and saving to get there.

Wonder once the boat is signed over to them permanently after the 5 years if they will be able to keep it going if/when the sponsorship ends. Hopefully they are saving and investing while things are going pretty good as 5 years can pass very quickly.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Your figures seem way off base by what I've seen most cruisers sailing and spending as their annual budget. Obviously, I don't ask them how much they paid for their boat, but a general idea of boat prices is available on Yachtworld.com.
It's pretty easy to estimate their cruising budget as well, if you spend some time around them, and I'd say the majority seem to be spending between 20 and 25k annually.
I can't see how anyone in even your 16% bracket can end up there, unless they were genius investors, considering the costs of living while working toward their retirement to a boat. Many still have a home and a car or two back home which they must also support, at what cost I have no idea. Never mind the air fare of flying back and forth several times a year.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The YouTube vid income still amazes me. SLV was in a real slump, after getting the new Outremer, but have begun to grow again. They’re at $11k per vid. No way they were running short of funds, prior to the new boat. SVDelos is now in the lead, among sailing vids, at $14k per vid. In their last Q&A, they flirted with the idea of building a customer expedition boat. Wow.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> The YouTube vid income still amazes me. SLV was in a real slump, after getting the new Outremer, but have begun to grow again. They're at $11k per vid. No way they were running short of funds, prior to the new boat. SVDelos is now in the lead, among sailing vids, at $14k per vid. In their last Q&A, they flirted with the idea of building a customer expedition boat. Wow.


Yeah they are talking about doing some Arctic sailing. Personally only ice I want to see is in a boat drink glass.
Maybe they are running out of "paradise" after all these years. Developing a case of "Cruise Blues".


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

capta said:


> I wonder what a Bristol 29.9 in Bristol condition would have cost them when they paid the 15 g's? Surely not much over half that 70 grand, and they could have been sailing all that time?


I'm the owner of that particular Bristol 29.9. One thing to keep in mind is that over 1/3 of the 70K is tied up in the new engine and installation. The total also includes virtually every cost, including things like chart books. I thought it might be helpful for others who are trying to ballpark potential costs for doing a complete refit on a boat. We certainly could have done it for less, particularly if we had decided to keep the original Yanmar YSB 12, but we made a conscious decision with every purchase knowing that someday when we sell we won't get anything close to what we've put into it. That's o.k. with us, and at least now we know her inside and out. Whenever we start to have heart palpitations over what we've spent, we tell ourselves that with the exception of the hull and a few other items, everything else is new, and we couldn't buy a new 30 foot boat for anywhere close to that. Hey, whatever lets us sleep at night, right? 

We only work on her during the offseason here in Connecticut, sailing during the summer. The plan was to continue working at our jobs before retiring and leaving this fall (I'm 49, Mr. cthoops is 58). Mr. cthoops had to unexpectedly stop working early when he almost died over the Christmas holidays and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. We thought the dream would be on hold indefinitely, but fortunately he is steadily improving and we have a very understanding cardiologist who has said that if he continues to do well this summer, we should leave this fall anyway. Now we're even more glad that we decided to stick with a smaller boat, because I can easily single hand her if needed. We are looking forward to cutting the dock lines on September 6th barring any health setbacks. Fingers crossed.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I would guess folks have been messing around with boats, ever since there have been boats, but they've only been doing it in popular culture for about 150 years that I know of. The first one I know of was John MacGregor, who published "1000 miles in a Rob Roy Canoe" in 1866. His boat was a 15'/80 lb sailboat/canoe highbrid that could sleep one in the bilge. He cruised the heck out of Europe and North Africa in his sailing canoes of his own designs.
> 
> MacGregor was a wealthy patent lawyer and could have afforded a much bigger boat, but that wasn't the kind of cruising experience he wanted. He wanted to be one with nature, so he chose a boat design that would get him closest to it with the least amount of hassle.


You can find the canoe he used to cruise the Jordan River in the Daniel Rowing Centre in Tel Aviv - I only know that because that's where you take your written tests for CG licenses here.

Boy that is not a lot of boat. Didn't realize he slept on that one. He was "cruising" through deadly malarial swamps.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

capta said:


> Your figures seem way off base by what I've seen most cruisers sailing and spending as their annual budget. Obviously, I don't ask them how much they paid for their boat, but a general idea of boat prices is available on Yachtworld.com.
> It's pretty easy to estimate their cruising budget as well, if you spend some time around them, and I'd say the majority seem to be spending between 20 and 25k annually.
> I can't see how anyone in even your 16% bracket can end up there, unless they were genius investors, considering the costs of living while working toward their retirement to a boat. Many still have a home and a car or two back home which they must also support, at what cost I have no idea. Never mind the air fare of flying back and forth several times a year.


So the attainable boat is only attainable to a portion of the 4.3% and therefore not really attainable except to a very select few. I thought the figures from the 2018 US Wage Report made it pretty evident that the $95,000 boat really was not attainable by very many people. Perhaps that is why so many are giving them away for a $1 or just walking away and letting them sink at the mooring.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Minnewaska said:


> The YouTube vid income still amazes me. SLV was in a real slump, after getting the new Outremer, but have begun to grow again. They're at $11k per vid. No way they were running short of funds, prior to the new boat. SVDelos is now in the lead, among sailing vids, at $14k per vid. In their last Q&A, they flirted with the idea of building a customer expedition boat. Wow.


They had put the old boat up on the hard and had flown back to Australia almost out of funds and were about to go belly up so were seeking jobs to get money saved up to start again when they got the offer is what I recall from the piece they did explaining how/why they got the new boat and were able to afford it. Are you saying that was just fake drama?

Its a 5 year 2 fifteen minute videos a month deal.


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## archimedes (May 14, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> The YouTube vid income still amazes me. SLV was in a real slump, after getting the new Outremer, but have begun to grow again. They're at $11k per vid. No way they were running short of funds, prior to the new boat. SVDelos is now in the lead, among sailing vids, at $14k per vid. In their last Q&A, they flirted with the idea of building a customer expedition boat. Wow.


I was wondering where these numbers come from. Not disputing them, just wondering how you arrived at them. That's some pretty nice coin.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

zedboy said:


> Boy that is not a lot of boat. Didn't realize he slept on that one. He was "cruising" through deadly malarial swamps.


Robert Louis Stevenson's cruising sailboat of choice was also a Rob Roy sailing canoe. I suspect he could have afforded a bigger yacht if he had wanted to, but I don't think that was really the point for him. The same as he elected to take a single donkey with him for his mountain expeditions rather than a team of Porter's.

Some folks get lots of satisfaction from the independence offered by a smaller boat and you don't need to be one of SeaStars less than 4.3% to own one either.

irateraft:


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

cthoops said:


> I'm the owner of that particular Bristol 29.9. One thing to keep in mind is that over 1/3 of the 70K is tied up in the new engine and installation. The total also includes virtually every cost, including things like chart books. I thought it might be helpful for others who are trying to ballpark potential costs for doing a complete refit on a boat. We certainly could have done it for less, particularly if we had decided to keep the original Yanmar YSB 12, but we made a conscious decision with every purchase knowing that someday when we sell we won't get anything close to what we've put into it. That's o.k. with us, and at least now we know her inside and out. Whenever we start to have heart palpitations over what we've spent, we tell ourselves that with the exception of the hull and a few other items, everything else is new, and we couldn't buy a new 30 foot boat for anywhere close to that. Hey, whatever lets us sleep at night, right?
> 
> We only work on her during the offseason here in Connecticut, sailing during the summer. The plan was to continue working at our jobs before retiring and leaving this fall (I'm 49, Mr. cthoops is 58). Mr. cthoops had to unexpectedly stop working early when he almost died over the Christmas holidays and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. We thought the dream would be on hold indefinitely, but fortunately he is steadily improving and we have a very understanding cardiologist who has said that if he continues to do well this summer, we should leave this fall anyway. Now we're even more glad that we decided to stick with a smaller boat, because I can easily single hand her if needed. We are looking forward to cutting the dock lines on September 6th barring any health setbacks. Fingers crossed.


I wish you both good sailing and health.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Yeah they are talking about doing some Arctic sailing. Personally only ice I want to see is in a boat drink glass.
> Maybe they are running out of "paradise" after all these years. Developing a case of "Cruise Blues".


Seems they simply like to be off the beaten path, which is no doubt why I watch. They laid the boat up in Grenada for this entire coming hurricane season, but mentioned there are some out of the way places in the Caribbean they may visit next winter, having mentioned Haiti and Cuba among them.

Since Karen joined in New Zealand, she never saw the South Pacific, so they also mentioned redoing that for her. Although, rather than transit the Panama Canal, they talked about going south around the Horn and spending time in Patagonia. Then the Pacific, and up the East Coast of Asia. Perhaps along that route, they'll get the expedition boat. If not for the Horn, then for the Northern Arctic. Seems a long, long way off.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SeaStar58 said:


> They had put the old boat up on the hard and had flown back to Australia almost out of funds and were about to go belly up so were seeking jobs to get money saved up to start again when they got the offer is what I recall from the piece they did explaining how/why they got the new boat and were able to afford it. Are you saying that was just fake drama?
> 
> Its a 5 year 2 fifteen minute videos a month deal.


Not the way I remember it. The old LaVag went up for sale on the hard, after they made the deal for the Outremer. They were bringing in some good Patreon/Youtube revenue by then, which is what attracted Outremer to make a deal for the exposure. As I recall, they are technically leasing the new boat from Outremer, in exchange for some undisclosed portion of their video proceeds.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

archimedes said:


> I was wondering where these numbers come from. Not disputing them, just wondering how you arrived at them. That's some pretty nice coin.


You can either lookup their Patreon page or another site, called Graphtreon, shows both current and historic volumes and dollars.

The only issue with both is they don't disclose which subscribers have limited their monthly contributions. IOW, you may pledge $5 per vid, but have a $10 monthly limit, so you can't get hit every day. Therefore, you can't necessarily multiply the per vid amount by the total number of vids they make. Nevertheless, it's real money.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SeaStar58 said:


> So the attainable boat is only attainable to a portion of the 4.3% and therefore not really attainable except to a very select few. I thought the figures from the 2018 US Wage Report made it pretty evident that the $95,000 boat really was not attainable by very many people. Perhaps that is why so many are giving them away for a $1 or just walking away and letting them sink at the mooring.


Nobody is giving away $95,000 boats for $1. The vast majority of $1 boats have negative value. Inexperienced newbs, like the original subjects of this thread, may _think_ they're getting a $95,000 boat for $1, but they're not, as they will learn when they inevitably run out of money and abandon their boat. They may wish they didn't leave an electronic trail on YouTube.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> Seems they simply like to be off the beaten path, which is no doubt why I watch. They laid the boat up in Grenada for this entire coming hurricane season, but mentioned there are some out of the way places in the Caribbean they may visit next winter, having mentioned Haiti and Cuba among them.
> 
> Since Karen joined in New Zealand, she never saw the South Pacific, so they also mentioned redoing that for her. Although, rather than transit the Panama Canal, they talked about going south around the Horn and spending time in Patagonia. Then the Pacific, and up the East Coast of Asia. Perhaps along that route, they'll get the expedition boat. If not for the Horn, then for the Northern Arctic. Seems a long, long way off.


It's interesting that they do take a break from being on the boat from time to time. Something that those who are in the dream planing mode might want to make note of. I actually like putting the boat to bed every winter and enjoy the spring outfitting routine. I use the winter to think about projects I want to do on board in the spring. I've noticed that since I've done a lot of cruising in my local waters I feel no need to hurry getting the boat launched these days. There is no place I need to see with my boat. Of course the cold wet spring might have had something to do with it too.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

They have a youtube channel. The last 2 minutes of this have some interesting content.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sal Paradise said:


> They have a youtube channel. The last 2 minutes of this have some interesting content.....


Self-exploitative youtube drama syndrome.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mbianka said:


> It's interesting that they do take a break from being on the boat from time to time.....


Strikes me that this will be their longest. They also talked about a 6 months aboard, 3 months ashore as a long term program. Interesting. One has to wonder if either of the brothers ties the knot or has a kid, or both. That would change the game.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> The YouTube vid income still amazes me. SLV was in a real slump, after getting the new Outremer, but have begun to grow again. They're at $11k per vid. No way they were running short of funds, prior to the new boat. SVDelos is now in the lead, among sailing vids, at $14k per vid. In their last Q&A, they flirted with the idea of building a customer expedition boat. Wow.


I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't understand Youtube. How does anyone get that kind of money from posting a video on there?
It's not something I want to do, but I'm curious.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Different strokes for differen folks. I like making the odd youtube video, and sometimes they even get watched. However, if I ever filmed my wife at an emotionally challenging time, I am certain i would receive a field colonoscopy with my own camera equipment, tripod and all.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

capta said:


> I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't understand Youtube. How does anyone get that kind of money from posting a video on there?
> It's not something I want to do, but I'm curious.


It's much harder these days to make money on You Tube since they changed the rules last year. You need 1,000 subscribers (people who are alerted when you post a new video) and I think 4,000 views. That is the minimum before YT will allow you to have ads run before and during your video. Giving you a few pennies in revenue. More lucrative is to set up a Patron account where people throw you a buck or two or more when you post a new video. Which is where La Vagabound and S/V Delos get most of their revenue these days.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't understand Youtube. How does anyone get that kind of money from posting a video on there?
> It's not something I want to do, but I'm curious.


The real money is in Patreon, as mentioned. The marketing is fascinating. At first, I objected to the solicited handout and still feel that way, for some of the producers. However, svDelos is making professional quality programming, just like a weekly TV show. They charge nothing, but they ask for donors. They provide certain benefits for being a donor, depending on level. Low level donors get to see episodes, before they become publicly available. They all set up various level that earn t-shirts or other swag. I've heard of high level donors having direct access to the crew on email or other.

To date, I've not subscribed via Patreon to any channel. I did order a Delos tshirt.

I do wonder if it will last, but I think it could be the new era of paying for programming. $200/mo for cable that I rarely watch and hate what's on when I do, has got to go.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

TakeFive said:


> Nobody is giving away $95,000 boats for $1. The vast majority of $1 boats have negative value. Inexperienced newbs, like the original subjects of this thread, may _think_ they're getting a $95,000 boat for $1, but they're not, as they will learn when they inevitably run out of money and abandon their boat. They may wish they didn't leave an electronic trail on YouTube.


Not until they can't sell them for so long that the can't afford or just simply get behind with the upkeep and let them get into a negative value state of disrepair. Too many of what "Use to be" nice boats such as the 36 foot Pedrick (current NADA Retail book value of about $40,000 to $55,000 and original list price of about $120,000) sold to this couple for $1 are only offered this way to be rid of them before they sink at the dock without having to pay someone to tow them away.

You regularly see boats priced at or above what the owners need to get out from under upside down loans only to see the boats depreciating in value since they can't afford the upkeep and the asking prices keep dropping until they are being offered at half the original asking or even Lower/$1/Free. Too many times they just walk away which is why here in Florida they made it a Felony to abandon a boat.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> I do wonder if it will last, but I think it could be the new era of paying for programming. $200/mo for cable that I rarely watch and hate what's on when I do, has got to go.


Cut the cable and got rid of TV years ago. On the boat I enjoy climbing into the bunk with a good book. On land I watch various You Tube videos before turning out the light. Some sailing related, how to videos and some just for fun. One guilty pleasure channel I check out is the Hydraulic Channel. Guy in Norway with a 100 ton hydraulic press just crushes everyday objects and materials. Mostly watch for fun but, saw that a block of carbon fiber would make a pretty good backing plate on board:


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Minnewaska said:


> Not the way I remember it. The old LaVag went up for sale on the hard, after they made the deal for the Outremer. They were bringing in some good Patreon/Youtube revenue by then, which is what attracted Outremer to make a deal for the exposure. As I recall, they are technically leasing the new boat from Outremer, in exchange for some undisclosed portion of their video proceeds.


Riley did see an Outramere while out and about and sent the CEO an email that turned into the current situation since the CEO had already been following them and liked what they were doing. He did post an explanation of the deal that went beyond what was disclosed in the news interview and its a kind of modified lease to own deal requiring 2 videos a month for 5 years plus they get a discount on supplies and support. They were very lucky with how things turned out though and despite Elana making vids for her Mum and then posting them on YouTube the Benetau was costing a lot to keep sailing and was not really long term sustainable for them. He started with $250,000 and even with the video income it was not really sustainable, perhaps if he had not held out for so long not initially wanting Elana to post the videos on YouTube he would not have depleted his savings so quickly and been able to keep it going without the Outramere deal. I forget if the full details were on their blog or other site however its not there on the YouTube channel. Its been some time since I looked into this and I did not bookmark it since its only trivia.

Beyond the Patreon money and Outramere deal the meet and greets with their fans which could go for $50 to $100 or so a seat are icing on the cake.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

mbianka said:


> Cut the cable and got rid of TV years ago. On the boat I enjoy climbing into the bunk with a good book. On land I watch various You Tube videos before turning out the light. Some sailing related, how to videos and some just for fun. One guilty pleasure channel I check out is the Hydraulic Channel. Guy in Norway with a 100 ton hydraulic press just crushes everyday objects and materials. Mostly watch for fun but, saw that a block of carbon fiber would make a pretty good backing plate on board:


I sometimes like the unusual barbecue videos.

How about the Syracuse University Lava Barbecue:





Could pour that into a mold to make a hull?

Or unusual Molten Metal Art:





Keep that final picture in mind next time you step on an ant hill in your yard.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

mbianka said:


> It's much harder these days to make money on You Tube since they changed the rules last year. You need 1,000 subscribers (people who are alerted when you post a new video) and I think 4,000 views.


Damnit, I have a video on youtube with 70k views, WHERE IS MY MONEY???????


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SeaStar58 said:


> ......They were very lucky with how things turned out though and despite Elana making vids for her Mum and then posting them on YouTube the Benetau was costing a lot to keep sailing and was not really long term sustainable for them........


I'll take your word for the chronology, as you seem to have more info than most.

However, this part is what doesn't make sense to me. If you look at Graphtreon, they were pulling in $5k per video, even two years ago. I'm pretty sure the Outremer deal was inside that timeframe. It's hard to imagine how one would struggle maintaining a Bene and keeping a cruising lifestyle on that kind of income. I'm not saying it's flush, assuming one is paying taxes, insurance, etc, but it should be more than sufficient. For that matter, why would Outremer take the chance on the lease, to be paid from video revenue, if they weren't already raking it in.

In any event, I found it interesting that SLV took a slide right after getting the brand new Cat. I think it became less authentic and they became a bit more full of themselves. I really disliked the vid, where they snuck aboard early, despite being told not to. Unseamanlike, I guess. I also found the Med to be less interesting than the islands. Now that they're out and back to their old style of cruising, volume is picking up again.

https://graphtreon.com/creator/LaVagabonde


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Minnewaska said:


> I'll take your word for the chronology, as you seem to have more info than most.
> 
> However, this part is what doesn't make sense to me. If you look at Graphtreon, they were pulling in $5k per video, even two years ago. I'm pretty sure the Outremer deal was inside that timeframe. It's hard to imagine how one would struggle maintaining a Bene and keeping a cruising lifestyle on that kind of income. I'm not saying it's flush, assuming one is paying taxes, insurance, etc, but it should be more than sufficient. For that matter, why would Outremer take the chance on the lease, to be paid from video revenue, if they weren't already raking it in.
> 
> ...


I dug a bit deeper in after I saw them while researching my boat but that was a while ago and I was more interested in the type of people they were than anything else. Yes they did have to find a good balance after the Outramere deal to not just allow their channel to become a long running Outramere Commercial. Currently they appear to be paying it forward when they can and are delaying their departure from Barbuda to do some volunteer work to help the locals recovering from Irma.

Some dirty politics could be in play there in Barbuda that may allow some that appeared to be philanthropic folks trying to help actually take the ceded land on the island as their own at no charge leaving the inhabitants in the process of rebuilding no longer owning their own homes however that's well beyond the scope of this topic. Hopefully with the world aware and watching it won't go down that way.


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

Talked with a sail vlogger. He was making $1 for every 2,600 views on Youtube. Just as an insight into the dollar amount made via youtube.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

SeaStar58 said:


> . He started with $250,000 and even with the video income it was not really sustainable,


I watch these cruising YT videos on occasion but not enough to discern the boats and crew apart.

I read about how you can afford to cruise comfortably for about $3k/month. How does one start with $250,000, have a video income stream and it not be sustainable?


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

dwedeking said:


> Talked with a sail vlogger. He was making $1 for every 2,600 views on Youtube. Just as an insight into the dollar amount made via youtube.


He'd need 260,000 views a day to gross $36,500 a year that way to somewhat make a living as an independent videotographer.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

dwedeking said:


> Talked with a sail vlogger. He was making $1 for every 2,600 views on Youtube. Just as an insight into the dollar amount made via youtube.


I definitely believe that figure, but it varies widely depending on what ads are sold on the channel and the amount of interaction.

I'm not making any money at all right now because I don't have 1000 subscribers, but before YouTube put that obstacle in place I was getting about $3/1000 views.

Basically enough to keep me in memory chips, tripods and gaffer tape (I get about 15000 views/month).


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

jephotog said:


> I watch these cruising YT videos on occasion but not enough to discern the boats and crew apart.
> 
> I read about how you can afford to cruise comfortably for about $3k/month. How does one start with $250,000, have a video income stream and it not be sustainable?


You buy a near to $100,000 used boat, pay $XX,000 for provisions/rigging/sails/tender/etc, have the maintenance done, break you neck spending some months in a foreign hospital living out of pocket (big chunk of change even if you do have insurance), have a few other incidents requiring a visit to the ER, fix things that break on the boat while your learning to sail and go through too much of the rest of your working capital before starting the income stream. Playing catch up afterwards costs more and takes longer.

$250,000 really isn't as much as it use to be so kids in their early 20's tired of working for a living thinking they can sail off around the world on a few hundred dollars or less like those this topic is really based upon is pretty naive.

Just because some have been able to keep it down to $3,000 a month there is no guarantee that a series of unfortunate events won't make that impossible for some or possibly many.

One of the fastest ways to loose money is to buy a boat. Even faster way to loose money can be by building boats where its not uncommon to invest ten million dollars or more and after all the profits and losses are counted end up with less than one million dollars.


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

SeaStar58 said:


> He'd need 260,000 views a day to gross $36,500 a year that way to somewhat make a living as an independent videotographer.


I don't think you can look at all of these revenue streams as independently being a means of supporting yourself. I'm working on building a number of micro-income streams like this that together would supplement my savings while at the same time not requiring I be wired in all the time but unless I catch lightening in a bottle I'm not counting on them to being a replacement for the type of income you'd see from a land based US job (and I won't need that type of budget anyways).

In Delos's recent Q&A session they stated they were looking at ways to diversify their income as they are now largely dependent upon the Patreon business model and that system.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Self-exploitative youtube drama syndrome.


You think so? I mean - of course the whole self exploitative thing is cultural now... but her fear and tears seemed real. And she did sink a boat. So I can see some type of anxiety.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sal Paradise said:


> You think so? I mean - of course the whole self exploitative thing is cultural now... but her fear and tears seemed real. And she did sink a boat. So I can see some type of anxiety.


I'll bet she was genuinely anxious. I think the drama was poured on for the camera. I mean, who grabs a camera and points it in their own face, when distraught. It was mostly show.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Sal Paradise said:


> You think so? I mean - of course the whole self exploitative thing is cultural now... but her fear and tears seemed real. And she did sink a boat. So I can see some type of anxiety.


There might be some genuine anxiety, but

Making YouTube videos is maybe 10% set up, 5% filming and %85 editing. If you don't want to include something in a video, you don't.

There is no way for a crying scene to find its way into a YouTube video, unless the creator decides they want a crying scene in their video.

For whatever reason, she wanted her viewers to see her crying.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Arcb said:


> There might be some genuine anxiety, but
> 
> Making YouTube videos is maybe 10% set up, 5% filming and %85 editing. If you don't want to include something in a video, you don't.
> 
> ...


For every day of sailing there is usually 5 days of post production work from taking raw video through edit to final upload. Try uploading a 15 to 30 minute HD Video from a remote location on borrowed WiFi or a Mobile HotSpot and see how much of a single day that can take even with a good connection.

Yes they wanted the crying and fast forwarded or rapidly swept the camera on things they wanted to keep you guessing about but kept in to prevent the run time from being too short.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Ok, I will leave the youtube analysis to you experts. I can only imagine my wife if we ever had an incident. I'd have to post about her reaction on the God and Sailing thread.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sal Paradise said:


> Ok, I will leave the youtube analysis to you experts. I can only imagine my wife if we ever had an incident. I'd have to post about her reaction on the God and Sailing thread.


Would she grab a camera, film her own reaction, then spend a day editing it into a video? That's really the point here, not the reaction itself.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

SeaStar58 said:


> break you neck spending some months in a foreign hospital living out of pocket (big chunk of change even if you do have insurance)


I did not see any hospital episodes but now totally understand. I guess that is why I love/hated the videos. I watched them with a huge streak of jealousy, to be able to travel the world by sailboat with a young and beautiful crew, my own age on awesome adventures. It reminds me of my early life motto' "retirement is wasted on the old." 
I also watched with a bit of dread, yelling "don't do that", "you can break your neck", "do you know how far away the closest hospital is?" I had no idea how they were funding the trip. I thought they all were or at least one of them was a Trustafarian. Now if I watch the video I will be yelling "Don't do that, you'll run out of money or break your neck."


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

I guess that you could consider me old and I definitely do not think that retirement is being wasted on me...I'm making pretty good use of it.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

paulinnanaimo said:


> I guess that you could consider me old and I definitely do not think that retirement is being wasted on me...I'm making pretty good use of it.


Yes, but imagine you been through it all and are now retired, have the finances, and wisdom you have now but the body of yourself at 25. If the 22 year old self could take out a loan from your 70 year old self to semi-retire for a few years when you could really, really take advantage of it.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

jephotog said:


> If the 22 year old self could take out a loan from your 70 year old self to semi-retire for a few years when you could really, really take advantage of it.


The percentage of folks who would live long enough to pay that bill would be minuscule :lol:


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

ianjoub said:


> The percentage of folks who would live long enough to pay that bill would be minuscule :lol:


Wouldn't you forgive that loan? Come on it was well invested irrelevant of the ROI.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

ianjoub said:


> The percentage of folks who would live long enough to pay that bill would be minuscule :lol:


Huh? A 22 year old gives up entry level wages for a few years to experience the world, then starts working at 25. That could be paid back, especially if living modestly, and if student debt isn't huge. He enters the workforce with some interesting stuff on his resume that could allow it to float to the top of the pile.

Not everyone needs to buy a 68 foot Oyster to have a good time.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

jephotog said:


> I did not see any hospital episodes but now totally understand. I guess that is why I love/hated the videos. I watched them with a huge streak of jealousy, to be able to travel the world by sailboat with a young and beautiful crew, my own age on awesome adventures. It reminds me of my early life motto' "retirement is wasted on the old."
> I also watched with a bit of dread, yelling "don't do that", "you can break your neck", "do you know how far away the closest hospital is?" I had no idea how they were funding the trip. I thought they all were or at least one of them was a Trustafarian. Now if I watch the video I will be yelling "Don't do that, you'll run out of money or break your neck."


It seems he kept that fairly low key and only brought it up recently when he took a spill hitting his head on a helm station seat causing it to flair up again for a few weeks putting him completely off his feet for the first several days after the fall. The fear was that he fractured the fused area or one of the plates came loose in his neck when he did that. I can only imagine what the trip to the ER and scans on that one cost him. He holds back much of the bad so his/their parents aren't hearing it via social media before he can contact them personally after he has gotten a handle on things.

Imagine a mother worrying because her son is paralyzed on a sailboat halfway across an ocean past the point of no return days from assistance potentially with an injury that should be treated immediately so it does not lead to a crippling disability or worse. Do you let Mom and Dad know right away and make them sweat it out or wait a bit (days/weeks) until you can get to an ER and be checked out? Many parents if they heard up front would already be arranging a life flight to bring you home and telling you to end that foolish sailboat fantasy before it kills you.

He appears to be realizing the injuries are stacking up and that he's not as young as he used to be. Sad day if you get to the "If it don't hurt it don't work" stage of life and your still in your 30's or 40's.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

TakeFive said:


> Huh? A 22 year old gives up entry level wages for a few years to experience the world, then starts working at 25. That could be paid back, especially if living modestly, and if student debt isn't huge. He enters the workforce with some interesting stuff on his resume that could allow it to float to the top of the pile.
> 
> Not everyone needs to buy a 68 foot Oyster to have a good time.


What a great idea!

We could make debt slaves out of all of our youth, without the pretense of college and 'education'. Government (taxpayer) back them just like student loans. We could make these loans with no forgiveness available, no bankruptcy could touch it, debt slaves forever!

Sign me up. I'll start lending my own money. Does 28% apr sound reasonable?


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

SeaStar58 said:


> Sad day if you get to the "If it don't hurt it don't work" stage of life and your still in your 30's or 40's.


Are you kidding? I am 48 and it seems I have been there for a few years now. It probably became the norm for me around 43 or 44.

Are there really people in their 40's who don't wake up sore every day? Maybe it is my own fault for not taking drugs. I do know people who take Alleve or Ibuprofen several times per day, every day. I have to be almost dead to take _one_.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

ianjoub said:


> What a great idea!
> 
> We could make debt slaves out of all of our youth, without the pretense of college and 'education'. Government (taxpayer) back them just like student loans. We could make these loans with no forgiveness available, no bankruptcy could touch it, debt slaves forever!
> 
> Sign me up. I'll start lending my own money. Does 28% apr sound reasonable?


Now you're getting ridiculous. This is your suggestion, certainly not mine.

I was just calling BS on your notion that a 22 year old who takes a few years off to "semi-retire" (i.e., work part time) would leave him/her with massive debts that only a minuscule minority could ever pay back over their entire lifetime. That's ridiculous exaggeration.


----------



## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

jephotog said:


> Yes, but imagine you been through it all and are now retired, have the finances, and wisdom you have now but the body of yourself at 25. If the 22 year old self could take out a loan from your 70 year old self to semi-retire for a few years when you could really, really take advantage of it.





ianjoub said:


> The percentage of folks who would live long enough to pay that bill would be minuscule :lol:





ianjoub said:


> What a great idea!
> 
> We could make debt slaves out of all of our youth, without the pretense of college and 'education'. Government (taxpayer) back them just like student loans. We could make these loans with no forgiveness available, no bankruptcy could touch it, debt slaves forever!
> 
> Sign me up. I'll start lending my own money. Does 28% apr sound reasonable?





TakeFive said:


> Now you're getting ridiculous. This is your suggestion, certainly not mine.
> 
> I was just calling BS on your notion that a 22 year old who takes a few years off to "semi-retire" (i.e., work part time) would leave him/her with massive debts that only a minuscule minority could ever pay back over their entire lifetime. That's ridiculous exaggeration.


It was a tongue in cheek comment as to how youth tends to party. 'Free' money would induce them to party even harder. We would lose a few of them before they had a chance to pay it back.

By 'party' I mean also taking more risk than 'responsible' people choose to take, not just the 'partying' part.

At any rate, no need to loan money for this. Young folks can work 60-70 hrs. per week for 6 months per year, save, then spend 6 months having fun and adventures, rinse, repeat for a few years, then settle down.

It is a lost concept: work and save, then spend. One doesn't need to work for 40 years and save. One can do it in short spurts as I indicated above. I have done it before, though I have chosen a different path now.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

TakeFive said:


> Huh? A 22 year old gives up entry level wages for a few years to experience the world, then starts working at 25.


I did not settle down and get a real job until I was in my 30s. I joke about being retired young because I had as many as 5 jobs at one time, some paid well others gave me a benefit like a ski pass or spend a day on a river. In the offseason I was unemployed and went on a kayak road trip or travelled to Mexico. In terms of the way we partied and traveled it was somewhat like retirement at a time that your body was young and you could take advantage of the freedom.

My ski bum friends are now in their 50s, some are broke wondering how real retirement will look. Some of them are also millionaires. Not because they ever made a bunch of money but because they learned to live a lean lifestyle and kept those values when they started working harder and make smart investments. They are in their 50s and still prefer to camp in their truck versus staying in a hotel. I have gotten soft in my old age and have started to stay in hotels but only because my wife makes me.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

ianjoub said:


> Are you kidding? I am 48 and it seems I have been there for a few years now. It probably became the norm for me around 43 or 44.
> 
> Are there really people in their 40's who don't wake up sore every day? Maybe it is my own fault for not taking drugs. I do know people who take Alleve or Ibuprofen several times per day, every day. I have to be almost dead to take _one_.


I had a bad ladder accident and suffered a crippling injury with almost instant uptake of degenerative bone disease however I flushed all the pain killers and went through pain hardening toughing it out instead. It was not until I reached my 60's though that I reached the onset of "If it don't hurt it don't work".

To be fair moving to the area on the North West side of Tampa Bay where the barometer is more stable than Northern Massachusetts has probably helped.

Guess they just don't make young people like they used to.

BTW: Ibuprofen causes internal and external ulcers. My Father-in-Law died suddenly and the autopsy showed it was due to ulcers in his heart and kidneys from the high dosages of prescription Ibuprofen his rheumatologist was giving him. The heart ulcers are what killed him the night he died however if he had survived that he was just a short ways from dying of kidney failure anyways with the root cause being Ibuprofen. I had dumped mine because I was getting miserable skin ulcers from them and didn't want to wait and find out what they were doing internally leaving me only narcotics which I also flushed. They can also ulcerate the stomach, duodenum, intestines, bladder, urethra, lungs, eyes, spleen, pancreas, tongue, liver, brain, etc.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Dam mit I wish I could follow these threads but you done lost me once again.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

ianjoub said:


> What a great idea!
> 
> We could make debt slaves out of all of our youth, without the pretense of college and 'education'. Government (taxpayer) back them just like student loans. We could make these loans with no forgiveness available, no bankruptcy could touch it, debt slaves forever!
> 
> Sign me up. I'll start lending my own money. Does 28% apr sound reasonable?


See, I know you meant that as sarcastic, but when I was a young man I had a funky theory that since old people seemed to enjoy working so much that retirement should be between 20 and 40 (funded by the previous generation) and then you just work until you're dead. Now that I am of an age to be a funder rather than a fundee the idea holds less attraction but looking back at my 20s, I still don't think it was the worst idea in the world. :smile

Of course being human, we'd find a way to screw it up so that it wouldn't work anyway.

Oh, and btw, (insert some arbitrary number) percent of us are "debt slaves forever" anyway. Why not admire the few who can carpe the diem no matter how they do it.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

I am happy for the folks who can seize the day. I just do not care to fund them.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

ianjoub said:


> I am happy for the folks who can seize the day. I just do not care to fund them.


This whole patreon and sponsorship thing is similar to what my ski bum friends that made it in the past. If you were really good at what you did you got sponsored. That meant free gear, travel expenses to competitions, helicopter rides to the top of a mountain or river. Few got rich doing it but they were so good at playing they were paid to do it and had to work less and play more which was the measure of success to us back then.

The difference today is the key to gaining success in support is to have a compelling story, be photogenic or pathetic enough story, if you can make an interesting video you can get sponsored. I have no interest in contributing to a video making crew, no matter how much fun or strife they are having. If your website or videos teach me something, I am more inclined to contribute. I would be willing to contribute to someone crying over a sick animal, than a woman crying because she sunk her boat.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

jephotog said:


> ...I would be willing to contribute to someone crying over a sick animal, than a woman crying because she sunk her boat.


Hard to have too much sympathy for those first world problems. I'm still amazed that they were able to raise as much as they did. It would be interesting to know what percentage of their contributions came from non-sailors. Something tells me that sailors see right through their story.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

This isn't directed at you TakeFive, or anyone here. Its more a general observation about the world; many people who have a hard time thinking critically about the issues of our time suddenly become keenly analytical when it comes to donating money. The cause itself could be good or bad. But I find a lot of critics of donating who then don't really seem to think critically about much else.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I checked their Instagram. Looks like they made it to Key West. I guess they modified their plans to work and headed to Marathon.

Expensive places to party; Tampa, Key West, Marathon.

Should be fun as long as the cash holds out.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I checked their Instagram. Looks like they made it to Key West. I guess they modified their plans to work and headed to Marathon.
> 
> Expensive places to party; Tampa, Key West, Marathon.
> 
> Should be fun as long as the cash holds out.


Mooring or anchorage will run approx $240 month...dinghy access, fresh water $.05 gal, wifi, weekly pumpout, working spaces inside...etc.
its not a bad deal. They are trying to control the harbor and keep it clean. A couple a dozen derelicts still around after the last storm...cleaned most of them out.
Key thing in Marathon is dinghy access....none free.

Rates will be just north of $300 starting Oct.


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## TimMarks (Jun 2, 2018)

Looks like the remaining cash is in jeopardy....

>>we actually need our boat hauled out there! Our shaft just broke! Can you recommend a good honest one? We literally just had a new one put on a month ago by the worst marine service ever.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

TimMarks said:


> Looks like the remaining cash is in jeopardy....
> 
> >>we actually need our boat hauled out there! Our shaft just broke! Can you recommend a good honest one? We literally just had a new one put on a month ago by the worst marine service ever.


Maybe Marathon Boat Yard...different than Marathon Marina....but both do haul outs and repairs.
giggle them...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A broken shaft on a free boat. No kidding.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Sal Paradise said:


> This isn't directed at you TakeFive, or anyone here. Its more a general observation about the world; many people who have a hard time thinking critically about the issues of our time suddenly become keenly analytical when it comes to donating money. The cause itself could be good or bad. But I find a lot of critics of donating who then don't really seem to think critically about much else.


I don't take it personally at all. But your observation makes it all the more surprising that they raised as much money as they did.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

TimMarks said:


> Looks like the remaining cash is in jeopardy....
> 
> >>we actually need our boat hauled out there! Our shaft just broke! Can you recommend a good honest one? We literally just had a new one put on a month ago by the worst marine service ever.


If they keep going for bargain basement deals for the cheapest possible service then they are going to continually get cut rate services done by the least competent repair techs. They already had to replace the shaft once and now after a few days of actual use their having to replace it again speaks to a bigger problem.

That boat needed and still needs months of going over on the hard before being put back on the water.

They are sailing in the wrong direction and really should have sailed a bit north to a less affluent area where they could have better afforded to get the boat seaworthy. Then again the worked on the previous boats hull for something like a year on the hard in Tarpon Springs and still didn't get it right.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Got a chuckle on the latest from Instagram. Would kind of irk me if I donated to the gofundme, but I didn't, so I find it mostly amusing:

"In this picture I'm all smiles, but today is a different story. 
Every single time I drink alcohol my hangovers last the whole next day and I regret it, drinking is NOT worth that to me. On Cinco de mayo I told myself I wanted to go a year with no drinking. But the last couple of days everyone around me was drunk every day and I hated being called "boring" and i was tired of dealing with drunk people so I decided to just join in. I'm really trying to be the best me I can be, and last night was a setback. 
All I can do is forgive myself and move on."


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Got a chuckle on the latest from Instagram. Would kind of irk me if I donated to the gofundme, but I didn't, so I find it mostly amusing:
> 
> "In this picture I'm all smiles, but today is a different story.
> Every single time I drink alcohol my hangovers last the whole next day and I regret it, drinking is NOT worth that to me. On Cinco de mayo I told myself I wanted to go a year with no drinking. But the last couple of days everyone around me was drunk every day and I hated being called "boring" and i was tired of dealing with drunk people so I decided to just join in. I'm really trying to be the best me I can be, and last night was a setback.
> All I can do is forgive myself and move on. Please send more money"


Fixed it for her.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Arcb said:


> Got a chuckle on the latest from Instagram. Would kind of irk me if I donated to the gofundme, but I didn't, so I find it mostly amusing:
> 
> "In this picture I'm all smiles, but today is a different story.
> Every single time I drink alcohol my hangovers last the whole next day and I regret it, drinking is NOT worth that to me. On Cinco de mayo I told myself I wanted to go a year with no drinking. But the last couple of days everyone around me was drunk every day and I hated being called "boring" and i was tired of dealing with drunk people so I decided to just join in. I'm really trying to be the best me I can be, and last night was a setback.
> All I can do is forgive myself and move on."


Hope those don't include the ones making the boat seaworthy!

Grew up in a Sicilian family. While drinking was tolerated, drunkenness was not! Folks singular whit and intelligent conversations make the event fun and if its boring unless everyone gets drunk then you really need to get new friends.

Makes you wonder if the need to stay sober while on the job is the part of the "Rat Race" that they are trying to escape from...


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