# Looking at a 1972 Morgan 27'



## kpdii (Jul 30, 2008)

This week I found a 1972 Morgan 27' for sale at a local lake. I went
to look at the boat today and was hoping to get some opinions from
people familiar with the boat.

My impressions of the boat is that it was solid, but dirty. The
interior had seen better days, but was dry and did not have any musty
smells. It was last out of the water a year and a half ago, and the
bottom was cleaned and their was no blistering. The teak is very dry
and needs lots of attention and a couple of the lines need replacing.
Most of he work I could see doesn't concern, me, but I wanted to make
sure that I wasn't missing something. The issues I questions were

1. The head is still the original that dumps directly into the water.
The owner tells me this setup is illegal (at least in Texas lakes)
How difficult is it to retrofit a portapotty?

2. He has removed the folding table, v berth door and fresh water
tank (lighting for racing). Is there any challenge in reinstalling
any of these?

3. There is a slight "soft" spot under the floor in the area between
the head and sink. According to the owner, it is simple to replace a
rib if needed to fix this. Is that accurate?

4. The original Mercury 9.9hp outboard is off the boat due to poor
running. He was told parts are no longer available and didn't try to
fix it. The price reflects no working motor, but he will include it
if I want it free. I am good with motors, but if I can't get the
parts, I would need to buy an motor. Are parts available? If not,
what would an estimated cost of a used motor be, the owner estimated
$500.

I have pictures, but they were too large to upload

Thanks


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

*re the motor*

I can't speak to your questions regarding the boat but I have to believe you can get parts for the engine.
We were able to find parts for a 1967 Johnson 2hp outboard at our local "small town" automotive parts store!
I can't believe that finding parts for a 9.9 Mercury would be any harder.
Hope it all works out!


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

kpdii said:


> This week I found a 1972 Morgan 27' for sale at a local lake. I went
> to look at the boat today ......It was last out of the water a year and a half ago, and the
> bottom was cleaned and their was no blistering. ....


Is this hearsay, or have you seen the bottom with your own eyes? Certainly take anything anyone tells about condition with with a big grain of salt. To quote the Great Communicator "trust but verify".


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While I'm not familiar with the boat I would like to respond. 


kpdii said:


> This week I found a 1972 Morgan 27' for sale at a local lake. I went
> to look at the boat today and was hoping to get some opinions from
> people familiar with the boat.
> 
> ...


It usually isn't difficult to retrofit a porta-potty, but you might consider keeping the current head and adding a holding tank instead, which might be simpler. Raritan makes a small holding tank that fits around the base of the head itself.



> 2. He has removed the folding table, v berth door and fresh water
> tank (lighting for racing). Is there any challenge in reinstalling
> any of these?


It depends on how he removed them and whether he changed anything that is required for re-installing them after they were removed or not.



> 3. There is a slight "soft" spot under the floor in the area between
> the head and sink. According to the owner, it is simple to replace a
> rib if needed to fix this. Is that accurate?


This isn't good. Soft spots are generally a sign of bigger problems. Sounds like there was a water leak or standing water for a period of time in that area of the boat.



> 4. The original Mercury 9.9hp outboard is off the boat due to poor
> running. He was told parts are no longer available and didn't try to
> fix it. The price reflects no working motor, but he will include it
> if I want it free. I am good with motors, but if I can't get the
> ...


If the outboard is a two-stroke, it may well be fixable.

BTW, you should probably read the post in my signature. Once you get to 10 posts, you should be able to link to the photos after uploading them to a photo sharing website like Flickr.com or photobucket.com. I've described how to do that in the post in my sig.


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## lsusailing (Sep 9, 2006)

There are parts and amazing mechanics out there that can fix old 2 cycles, they run foreever. My 1974 9.9 outboard was as reliable as any diesel out there and easy for shadetree mechanics to fix for a few bucks.

Head; I had an old Ericson with the same problem. You can, if you like, rip the whole thing out, cap the thru hull and screw down a small portable head that you can buy for 89 bucks. You can go a long time before emptying it out with no smell if you use chemicals . Just a thought if you want a short term solution while you deal with other items


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

We have a 30' 77 Morgan OI and we're very happy w it. It won't win races but its well built. I would stick w the original head and add a holding tank w a 2 way valve. Then you can use the tank and if you get on the ocean you can use the sea dump.


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## jstv4man (Nov 19, 2004)

I know the boat you're referring to. I looked at it also. While the things you brought up are certainly concerns, my biggest one was that there is evidence that the shrouds had been overtightened at some point. There are flat spots on the hull at the sides in that area, and the fiberglass there is like a trampoline. Look at the boat head-on & you'll clearly see the flat spots I'm referring to. Then walk to that location & push on the hull. Otherwise, most of the hardware is there & although dirty, could be restored. The price is low, so it just depends on whether you're up for a large project. I would also say that all or almost all the running rigging needs replacement. Just reply back to this thread if you have more questions. I'll answer them as I can.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I raced on these boats back in the late 1970's/early 1980's. The Morgan 27 was part of a series of IOR oriented boats that Morgan tooled up in the early 1970's. They were a very mixed bag. First of all they were flawed as cruisers in that the IOR rule beating measures produced a boat that was compromised in terms of accommodations, sail plan proportions, ease of handling, seaworthiness and to a lesser extent motion comfort. 

As race boats these were hard boats to sail well and in many ways were quickly made obsolete by the mid-1970's boats coming out of the MORC rule such as the Lindenberg 26, J-24, Capri 25. Kirby 25, Soverel 30, and so on. These MORC derived boats performed well on all points of sail and in a wide range of windspeeds, where as the Morgan 27 only performed well in narrow range of conditions and points of sail. Comparatively speaking the Morgan 27's were pretty good in moderate conditions going upwind and dead down wind (when there was enough wind to go dead downwind) but did poorly in light air and in heavier conditions, and did poorly on a reach or in conditions where surfing was possible. 
<O</O
In a general sense, these were difficult boats to sail well, they quickly lost speed and did not have the acceleration to get it back again quickly. They were a little tender and tended to wipe in a gust. For a 27 footer they needed large sail inventories to be competitive. The one that I raced had a mainsail, light #1, AP#1, #2, #3, 90% Blade, Star cut Spinnaker, radial cut spinnaker, and spinnaker staysail. To keep the boat up to speed and manageable we made frequent sail changes. (Today's better sailcloth may allow you to eliminate the light #1). 
<O</O
Build quality wise, these were pretty poorly built boats. The keel to hull joint was quite vulnerable due to the rake of the 'shark fin' type keel, as was the hull on either side of the keel which would flex when the boat was pushed hard upwind in a chop. Similarly the shroud attachment point was quite vulnerable. I sailed on several of these boats and in heavy air the hull would oil can at the shrouds as the shrouds pulled the windward side of the boat inward. You could actually audibly hear the topsides pop back into place when you tacked the boats in a breeze. 
<O</O
As a result of these known conditions, at least in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







<ST1Savannah</st1:City>, where I sailed these boats, there were standard fixes for the problem. At least on the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1Savannah</st1:City> boats, the keel was dropped off and the bilge reinforced and larger transverse frames added. Some of the boats had the trailing edges of their keels extended to improve stability and increase the bearing area of the keel on the hull. Similarly longitudinal and transverse frames were added to the topsides in the area of the shrouds. 
<O</O
Of course if you are looking at one of these boats that has not had the remedial work done on it, and its been sailed hard all of these years, I would be very concerned with fatigue in these critical areas of the boat. 

Adding a potable water tank, and a holding tank for the head should not be all that difficult. depending on how the vee berth was removed it should not be hard to add back. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Seems to me that Jeff just saved you several years of heartache and several thousand dollars.
Let the beasty go.


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## kpdii (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks for your input everyone, especially Jeff and JSTV. I went back and looked a the boat again last night, and saw exactly what JSTV saw. I have been in contact with several members of the Morgan 27 owners group, and they have mentioned many of the issues, and fixes that Jeff brought up. 

After looking at a couple of dozen points that the Morgan guys have brought up, I am still interested in the boat, but moving very cautiously. 

We aren't looking to race, but more a family boat for playing with. I contacted two certified surveyors today, and if I move forward, it is likely that I will have the boat taken out and survey contingent on buying. Because of $$$ I would like to do a "floating restoration" so I can fix things over time.

Sailingdog I have a my flickr link, it has about 40 pictures of the boat. 

The work in and of it self doesn't scare me, and as JSTV said, the price is realitivly low, but I haven't discussed price outside of what he is asking. The real question is do I feel my car guy skills will translate into a project I am willing to tackle based on what comes back on the survey.

JSTV, while I have you, know anything about the Corinthian Yatch Club sailing classes? My wife is new to this, and that sounds like a great price to get her a foundation to work on whatever boat we get. Also, have you seen any others about that size I should look at? I looked at a Chrysler 26 at Colling County (awful) and a MacGregor 25 that I thought was too small for what we want (occasional weekend overnights for my wife and girls)


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## jstv4man (Nov 19, 2004)

While I'm not familiar with the sailing classes you're referring to on a first-hand basis, I do know that club. They're a good bunch of folks, and there are some very knowledgeable sailors there. I certainly don't think that would be a bad place to start.
I don't know if it's still there, but a couple of weeks ago, Inland Sailing located @ the same marina the Morgan is, had a Pearson 26 listed. It's a little more expensive than the Morgan, but still a pretty good deal on a much more solid boat. It could use some updating in some key areas, but needs no big projects. Talk to Todd @ that shop. He'll steer you straight.
If that boat is already sold, just check the usual places: Craigslist, Sailing Texas.com, and go to the local marinas & look @ their bulletin boards. Take your time & be selective. The right boat at the right price will come along.


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## kpdii (Jul 30, 2008)

jstv4man said:


> I don't know if it's still there, but a couple of weeks ago, Inland Sailing located @ the same marina the Morgan is, had a Pearson 26 listed. It's a little more expensive than the Morgan, but still a pretty good deal on a much more solid boat. It could use some updating in some key areas, but needs no big projects. Talk to Todd @ that shop. He'll steer you straight.


Thanks for the tip about the Pearson, its a little more $ than I can do right now, but I have Inland keeping an eye open for me now so that was a fruitful call.


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## fheidlbe (Dec 28, 2008)

*the mysterious Morgan*

The posts about the Morgan 27 were from July 2008, however I looked at the very same boat a couple of days ago (Dec 2008). So, you all decided, not to buy it. I found the same problems you mentioned, and more:
underneath the port settee in the main cabin, on the bottom of the storage space, there are wood panels that look rotten from water impact. I fear that this moisture can go from there into the structure that holds the keel. Is that possible, or are these wood panels just the floor?
In other words, does this rotten wood have a structural impact, or is
it a mere cosmetic problem?
The mast base, by the way, looks also rotten because water was leaking
in through the deck, along the mast.
I would be interested to hear about the mentioned problem, and why you all did NOT buy the boat.


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