# Which Sewing machine



## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Quite inexperienced and no idea what features, brands to seek out. I want to do mostly canvas covers, upholstery, maybe some sail work. etc. no idea what the future will bring but not looking to make it a career. I've looked at some Juki's and a Consew with no reverse. Told it will sew anything, but do I need reverse? Walking foot, I think I know what that is but not sure. Thanks for the thoughts. Looking at used right now.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

You'll want zig zag if you're doing sails.
IMO, you don't need a long arm unless doing production type work.
I think reverse is nice,


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Sounds like you are looking into industrial machines. 
Most any of the major brands such as Juki or Consew will be just fine.
I suggest finding a Japanese made machine instead of a newer Chinese one as they are typically much smoother to operate.
For canvas work you do want one with a compound walking foot and reverse.


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## Gladrags1 (Apr 9, 2003)

My wife has a Sailrite machine which has reverse, zig-zag, walking foot and sews through canvas, leather, etc. Sailrite makes 2 machines: one's red and the other is blue. The blue one has more features and is the one my wife sews with. She has upholstered our cushions (inside and out), remade our canvas dodger, made sail covers and bags and various more heavy duty jobs and likes the machine. 

Plus the company's service is second to none! They have videos showing you how to make anything from sail covers to sail bags to what ever.

I encourage you to consider the blue Sailrite machine which is made for them with their supervision over the manufacturing process. 

No, I don't work for the company. We are just satisfied customers.


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

For the price of a new Sailrite you can get a good used industrial machine. Locally, you can take the machine to a repair shop and have it completely gone through for $60. If you keep a machine on the boat in salt water, it will shortly turn to rust like all the rest of your tools. Otherwise if you are working on land and have room, I bought both an Adler 98 zigzag and a nice Juki used for the price of a new Sailrite but it took some waiting and watching CL. The Sailrite models are small and have a walking foot feed and zig-zag function but tend to go "out of time" which causes them to jam and their build quality vs a Juki is like comparing a moped to a Yamaha R1. 

Here is a list of machines to consider from the list I made while shopping years ago(not edited)-
Adler 91/98/Durkopp253/253/254/255/ 264/541*467* 
Pfaff 138/145
Juki LU-1508NH
Juki Lu-563 parts avail!!! Has large bobbin and reverse. 
Juki dnu-1541s
Adler 167, 267-373
Singer 211G 156 w reverse
Bernina 217n, pfaff 145 H4, ?H3, 545, Singer 111w155/6 w servo motor and speed reduction w table $500/211G156/Consew 206RB5 $1300 CP206R or 225, 226R, Juki 241 like National 300 or Nakajima 289L, Juki LU-562/563/Pfaff 145 H4, 1245 walking foot compound feed, Singer Featherweight, Viking Ruby, Pfaff 1471!!!
Singer 221 preww2, see acc, egyptian and chrome, cloth guide, orig Simanco bobbin, buttonholer to cover feed dogs or plate for this


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

Make sure you know what the difference is between a "heavy duty" machine and an industrial machine. Some of the above are heavy duty not industrial, you can find reviews on all of them.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

AdrenalineJunkie said:


> For the price of a new Sailrite you can get a good used industrial machine. Locally, you can take the machine to a repair shop and have it completely gone through for $60. If you keep a machine on the boat in salt water, it will shortly turn to rust like all the rest of your tools. Otherwise if you are working on land and have room, I bought both an Adler 98 zigzag and a nice Juki used for the price of a new Sailrite but it took some waiting and watching CL. The Sailrite models are small and have a walking foot feed and zig-zag function but tend to go "out of time" which causes them to jam and their build quality vs a Juki is like comparing a moped to a Yamaha R1.
> 
> Here is a list of machines to consider from the list I made while shopping years ago(not edited)-
> Adler 91/98/Durkopp253/253/254/255/ 264/541*467*
> ...


Sorry, but the bit about going out of time is complete crap.

I've put the machine through some tough jobs, including on one occasion hitting a metal zip so hard that the entire machine stopped dead with a huge bang, shot up in the air about a foot, breaking the needle, and chipping the scarf hook, but the timing stayed spot on.

New needle, smoothed the damage to the scarf hook with a file and sandpaper, and all was fine. Couldn't believe nothing had broken.


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

Here is the best post ever on comparing machines: The Vintage Singer Sewing Machine Blog: The Difference Between Domestic & Industrial Sewing Machines (or, How Not to Get Swindled on eBay & Craigslist)


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I had an experience with my Sailrite similar to MarkSF, and it bent a couple small parts. On request, the factory will provide information on how to repair it, including timing it if necessary (mine didn't need it) but I live near their home office, so I took it to them, they repaired it in about an hour, and only charged me about half of what I expected, and they were nice folks.

Mine has the optional heavy hand wheel, and it's incredibly powerful. The only drawback to these heavy duty and industrial machines is their weight. IIRC, mine weighs about 70 lbs, and I don't like to move it around if I can avoid it. I bought a light weight Brother home sewing machine that I use for light sewing jobs. It sews through 2-3 layers of Sunbrella, but I need the Sailrite to sew through 6-8 layers of heavy sailcloth.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Lazerbrains said:


> Sounds like you are looking into industrial machines.
> Most any of the major brands such as Juki or Consew will be just fine.
> I suggest finding a Japanese made machine instead of a newer Chinese one as they are typically much smoother to operate.
> For canvas work you do want one with a compound walking foot and reverse.


There's a local guy in business forever who has the Consew ($495) that has already told me what to look out for along those lines so this is good consistent advice. He also will give me opinions on used machines from other sources nice guy whether I buy from him or elsewhere. He will service of course so I need to get to know him anyway.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

AdrenalineJunkie said:


> Here is the best post ever on comparing machines: The Vintage Singer Sewing Machine Blog: The Difference Between Domestic & Industrial Sewing Machines (or, How Not to Get Swindled on eBay & Craigslist)


Thanks AJ, and for the previous posts. Im leaning towards something real heavy since I have no idea what I may end up doing. No looking for an onboard machine so weight is not an issue.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I own the Sailrite blue machine, LSZ-1, zigzag, walking foot, very heavy machine. Sewed a main, jib and cushions for the boat. I have two small complaints about the machine. It doesn't give you any warning when it is about to run out of bobbin thread and two, I find it a bit difficult to modulate my foot pressure to maintain a slow speed.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe give it a try barefoot..seriously.
Big toe action...


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

Great post here by Siamese.

Choosing a Domestic Sewing Machine


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I knew you guys wouldn't let me down. Anyone out there (forum) selling what I might be looking for.


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

In my experience people try to sell Sailrite machines for nearly what they cost new, would be a good buy at around $350 used but good luck with that as most people buy them and stick them in a closet unused after experiencing the rather steep learning curve "just in case." Skipper Jer, flip your Sailrite upside down and take a picture of the machinery and post it. We want to see if it looks like the industrial stuff by Singer, Consew, Juki et al which you can see in the article I posted. Of course I've seen it and it looks like a toy in comparison with amateurish castings and poor quality hardware. Seriously overpriced Chinese stuff. But good enough if you make one sail or a set of cushions. Not trying to diss Sailrite because I think they are a reputable company and buy supplies from them, but I speak from the experience of liquidating about 100 industrial machines from a furniture manufacturer and using this stuff in my business of restoring boats. 

There is little value in making your own sails outside of the knowledge gained, especially if you buy the supplies from Sailrite as you can buy a reputable brand new sail for nearly the same cost as the materials. Replacing cushions is another matter, as you can almost always reuse the foam which is the expensive bit.

Many industrial machines come with a clutch motor which makes the Sailrite seem easy to use at low speed in comparison- they are designed for 24/7 high speed production with an experienced operator, if you aren't planning on dedicating some time and effort to learning, be sure to get a servo motor. I didn't think it was that hard to learn but it was a while before I could make beautifully even French seams.


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

MarkSF said:


> Sorry, but the bit about going out of time is complete crap.
> 
> I've put the machine through some tough jobs, including on one occasion hitting a metal zip so hard that the entire machine stopped dead with a huge bang, shot up in the air about a foot, breaking the needle, and chipping the scarf hook, but the timing stayed spot on.
> 
> New needle, smoothed the damage to the scarf hook with a file and sandpaper, and all was fine. Couldn't believe nothing had broken.


Just noticed this response. Some people are lucky with their machines. But it is a TOY, and much more competent machines can and will go out of time and the Sailrite is legendary for this. You cruise, so you are stuck with a light weight portable. For that purpose, the Sailrite is perfect.

This is what an industrial machine looks like: notice the motor is bigger than your entire Sailrite, not to mention the itty bitty throat on your machine which would drive me insane repairing a shirt sleeve.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

AdrenalineJunkie said:


> ...Of course I've seen it and it looks like a toy in comparison with amateurish castings and poor quality hardware. Seriously overpriced Chinese stuff.......


Just a suggestion...

Switch to a finer grit.
That course grit...doesn't live a pleasant finish.


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

Very first website I searched, which reiterates what I have said. I'm not sure Mark even knows what "timing" is, but I am aware he is opinionated even when uninformed. I'm not talking about adjusting the thread tension, this is where you have to adjust the machine so that the needle and hook arrive at the correct place at the correct time and it is a bit complicated for a nonprofessional. Hitting something hard with the needle will often throw a lightweight machine out of timing, the industrials usually just break the needle but can also be thrown out of timing. Again, Honda Civic vs Mack Truck- both have different purposes and silly to claim a Civic can do what a Mack can over the long haul.

http://www.briontoss.com/spartalk/showthread.php?p=774

Also discussed is the cheesy, wimpy feed mechanism of the Sailrite.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Jaysus! How much does that industrial machine weigh, and where would you put it if you don't have a bench built for that purpose? Do those come in portable models? They must be very expensive, and that's ok if you use them in your business, to produce income for you, and especially if you can deduct them as a business expense, but most of us aren't professionals. I usually carry my Sailrite in my car and set it up on a picnic table. Can you do that with those? Do they have a carrying case? Could you set it up on your salon table?

I thought about buying a second-hand one like that but decided that an industrial user would probably use it until it was worn out. Why would I want to spend a lot of money on a worn out machine? 

When you buy a Sailrite, you get both a written owner's manual and a CD, both of which teach you everything you need to know about how to operate it, and you get a warranty when you buy it new.

Why would you buy a used Mack truck if what you really need is a new Honda Civic to drive your sweetie to the yacht club?


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Sep 23, 2012)

Apparently you didn't read my posts. If you have a tiny room in your home or a garage these machines fit, and many come with a 120V motor instead of a 220V. I paid $750 for the Juki, an awesome lifetime machine and $250 for the Adler zigzag which can sew through thick rugs all day, which is what it was used for at a sewing factory, I bought it from the owner's son. Or you can buy a Sailrite. Your choice. Or you can read through hundreds of hours of crap about machines and look at CL every day for years and be really informed on your own. Jeez. 

I stand by my statements and do not think they are hyperbole, simply my observations. I would have and did buy the machines for personal use before using them in my business. Along with two heavy duty classic home machines which can't sew through diddly and can't use a needle big enough to use appropriately sized thread. 

Disclaimer: I don't need anybody's business and could care less about the personality crap.


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## FloridaBoy (May 4, 2014)

Yes, Nothin wrong with a Sailrite. I have the LZ1, the blue one. Works great. She's about 3 yrs old. Sewed a lot of cushions and all kinds of stuff. Never had a problem. The OP said he wasn't going to make a career out of it. You can order one and have it in a few days, get the heavy wheel and do sew barefoot, it works, gives you more control. Or you could spend all your time looking on CL for a wore out machine that sewed rugs for the last 5 yrs. It's your choice... LOL!!! Kevin


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

I sew for a living. IMHO Adrenalinejunkie's statements, although a bit abrasive, are correct.
I have sewed on industrials built in the 1930's that are still going strong and are hardly "wore out" - that is the difference between industrials and a glorified home machine such as a sailrite..
Sailrite is a good machine for occasional use and repair, especially if space is a consideration. 
The Sailrite machine, however, has many deficiencies compared to an actual industrial machine such as tiny bobbins, weak motor power, can't handle heavy thread, and a tiny throat under the arm. The Sailrite is overpriced in relation to it's build quality, level of performance, and when compared to superior industrial machines in the same price range. It's singular asset is that it is portable, and that can be reason enough to own one. But to claim it is at the same level or superior to a good industrial is just silly talk.


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## wsmurdoch (Jan 23, 2007)

I own three sailboats; a 14' Flying Fish bought in 1975, a Tanzer 22 bought in 1981, and a Pacific Seacraft 34 bought in 2004. For those sailboats I own four sewing machines; a 1950s Japanese knockoff of a Singer class 15 given to me by my mother-in-law, a Viking 6430 given to me by my stepmother, a Singer15-91 inherited from the same stepmother, and a Sailrite Sailmaker (Brother TZ1-B652) that I bought on ebay.

The Japanese class 15 has repaired the Flying Fish sails and sewn sail covers, sail bags, tiller covers, and a complete set of new cushions for the Tanzer. It has sewed many carrier bags, curtains, and other small items. It did all the jobs, but it struggled. Before I learned to time it myself, the mechanic at the sewing shop told me that it "was a piece of junk, but it would last forever, could always be repaired, and for a simple straight stitch would beat any new plastic machine."

My stepmother took her Viking to a sewing machine shop when it started skipping stitches. They told her the head was cracked and that she needed to buy a new computer controlled Viking. She reverted to using her old Singer 91 (which she actually liked better for household sewing) and gave me the Viking. I blew the thread dust out of it, did a little oiling of the "permanently oiled" machine, and used it for years. (I've never found the "crack".) The Viking's two speed drive was a plus for sewing through heavy cloth and slowed things down giving me better control of my sewing. The free arm was not needed, but I have both the small metal plate that makes it into a flat bed machine and a folding table made especially for the machine that gives me a larger work area. Unfortunately, it is really a dressmaking machine, and I broke a part of the upper thread take-up mechanism sewing with heavy thread one day while making a carrier bag. I got a lecture about abusing the sewing machine from the sewing shop mechanic, then bought the parts myself, and fixed it myself. I still use it occasionally for its fancy stitches, especially its triple stitch zig zag. It is easily portable.

The Sailrite Sailmaker is in an industrial base and was offered on ebay "for local pickup only" at a fantastic minimum bid. While I was 300 miles away, I was the only bidder, and it was half way between my house and my next section hike on the Appalachian Trail. I got it for a song and picked it up on my next hiking trip. Before the Ultrafeed, the Sailmaker was for 25 years Sailrite's top-of-the-line machine selling for $1999.95 plus $335.00 for the industrial stand. While it does not have the walking foot of the Ultrafeed, its largest feed dogs are 7/8 of an inch wide, and it pulls like a horse. It can stitch a 12mm wide zig zag compared to the 6mm for the Ultrafeed, and it has a 9x4.5 inch underarm space compared to the Ultrafeed's 7x4.5. Best of all, even though it is a used machine, I still have Sailrite's support. I have used it to re-stitch sails, replace foresail sun covers, make mainsail covers, make a bimini, make winch covers, sew draperies for the living room, bind carpeting&#8230; The whole story of my taming of the machine is in this post:
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - Taming a Sailrite Sailmaker Industrial Sewing Machine .

The Singer 91 makes a beautiful straight stitch, and while not a heavy as the Sailmaker, will handle 90% of the straight stitch jobs. It is in a small sewing table and makes a very nice night stand in our guest bedroom while the Sailmaker is huge, horrible, and hard to hide.

My advice is to sit still, dream a little, wait till a machine comes along, and no matter what it is, grab it. Nothing is perfect. Then, when the next comes along, grab it too. Finally, learn to repair the machine yourself. Read sewing books. You can't go badly wrong, and if you've paid nearly nothing for the machine, you have lost nearly nothing in getting it.


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## bletso (Oct 17, 2013)

Lazerbrains - Agree the Sailrite has really small bobbins. I have an LZ1. It is a nice machine for what it is designed for and I do use it; occasionally. If I had had access to a heavier machine at the time, I would have preferred to buy access time rather than buy the LZ-1. Sailrite's support docs are a plus, but you don't have to buy a machine to get them.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Lazerbrains said:


> I sew for a living. IMHO Adrenalinejunkie's statements, although a bit abrasive, are correct.
> I have sewed on industrials built in the 1930's that are still going strong and are hardly "wore out" - that is the difference between industrials and a glorified home machine such as a sailrite..
> Sailrite is a good machine for occasional use and repair, especially if space is a consideration.
> The Sailrite machine, however, has many deficiencies compared to an actual industrial machine such as tiny bobbins, weak motor power, can't handle heavy thread, and a tiny throat under the arm. The Sailrite is overpriced in relation to it's build quality, level of performance, and when compared to superior industrial machines in the same price range. It's singular asset is that it is portable, and that can be reason enough to own one. But to claim it is at the same level or superior to a good industrial is just silly talk.


Lazer, what your opinion on the Consew I mentioned earlier. Im checking for a model number its from a reputable dealer in my area and its a real workhorse, it looks like it will sew just about anything, more than I need maybe but I appreciate well built stuff so I don't want to cheap out. No reverse how big a deal is that for canvas work I doubt Ill be building dodgers but cushions and sail covers zippers etc.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

AdrenalineJunkie said:


> Very first website I searched, which reiterates what I have said. I'm not sure Mark even knows what "timing" is, but I am aware he is opinionated even when uninformed. I'm not talking about adjusting the thread tension, this is where you have to adjust the machine so that the needle and hook arrive at the correct place at the correct time and it is a bit complicated for a nonprofessional. Hitting something hard with the needle will often throw a lightweight machine out of timing, the industrials usually just break the needle but can also be thrown out of timing. Again, Honda Civic vs Mack Truck- both have different purposes and silly to claim a Civic can do what a Mack can over the long haul.
> 
> Why NOT buy a Sailrite Sewing Machine? - SparTalk
> 
> Also discussed is the cheesy, wimpy feed mechanism of the Sailrite.


You see plenty of threads out there discussing the machine, and a lot of misinformation, but I can assure you of one thing : the people who actually own the machines are very happy with them. I am one of them. So my opinion is based on personal experience. What's your's based on, some threads you found on the Interweb?

Do you actually have any personal experience of the LSZ1? Have you looked inside one yourself?

To answer some of your points in no particular order :

The internal castings on the mk ii are much better quality than they used to be. The pics you see are of early machines, where the castings were not very good. A lot of comments tend to confuse clones like the Consew, and the LSZ1. They are not the same in terms of quality. 
No-one who has lifted an LSZ1 would describe it as lightweight. It's very heavy & extremely sturdy.
The machine will go through 6 to 8 layers of leather. How much bigger does the motor need to be? It is heavily geared down. The main tradeoff with the smaller motor is lower top stitch speed as a result of the gearing, not power. Also a direct drive motor on the big machines gives better control.
The bobbins are indeed too small.
The machine has a walking foot, but not needle. It still works very well with multiple layers of sunbrella and sailcloth.


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

albrazzi said:


> Lazer, what your opinion on the Consew I mentioned earlier. Im checking for a model number its from a reputable dealer in my area and its a real workhorse, it looks like it will sew just about anything, more than I need maybe but I appreciate well built stuff so I don't want to cheap out. No reverse how big a deal is that for canvas work I doubt Ill be building dodgers but cushions and sail covers zippers etc.


Hard to say not knowing what model, but generally Consew makes good stuff. Their newer China stuff is not as smooth as the old Japanese ones. For canvas, you want walking foot, large bobbin, and yes, reverse. You can do it without reverse, but it is a pain - most machines have reverse so hold out for one that does.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Lazerbrains said:


> Hard to say not knowing what model, but generally Consew makes good stuff. Their newer China stuff is not as smooth as the old Japanese ones. For canvas, you want walking foot, large bobbin, and yes, reverse. You can do it without reverse, but it is a pain - most machines have reverse so hold out for one that does.


Its a 225, maybe the reverse is why it sells for less than the others I've researched. Clearly there is a learning curve I'm pretty low on, so I probably will chill for a while. Right now they are all just sewing machines to me, no pattern other than price as to features and ability. Keep em coming guys, I will update when I buy.


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

I heard SINGER makes nice machines ! :svoilier::svoilier:


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