# Liveaboard computing.



## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

What's worth getting/staying away from as far as computering on board? It's time to update my puter situation so may as well start planning for it. Go cheap laptop that's easy to replace? More expensive and durable that will last? Combo with laptop/tablet? Any usage/storage tips to extend its life?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

What are you going to be using it for? I am starting to look at laptops for myself as well. My sons just got really nice 15.6 inch laptops for $450 last Christmas. When they were looking the most important thing they were looking for was a discreet video chip. they actually have 2 video setups, one integrated one that is better for battery life and one that has better performance for games. (they are teenagers, so they play a lot of games) They have been happy with the battery life, and performance. They got Acer Aspire AS5742G-6426 but that model has been discontinued. If you are just doing basic stuff I think any of the core i3 should work, if you want to do an occasional game then you might want to look for one with a discreet video card option. They pretty much have become commodity items, about all the same quality. 

If all you do is surf the web, you might want to look at a tablet to add to a laptop, they are very convenient. Some are happy with them as the main device. 

Tips to extend it's life, keep it out of the rain! ;-) I don't see the expensive super rugged (Panasonic toughbook) lap tops being worth it. They are about 4 times the price of a decent laptop. I figure they may last longer, but I can replace mine 3 times and be ahead and likely have a much faster computer as the replacements will be newer an improved. Multiple backups are your friend.


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## Jetexas (Apr 3, 2012)

I've been running the Beta version of Win 8 on my old Lenovo netbook, and it actually runs much better than it ever did running Win 7 -- no lag with the touchscreen, etc. 

The upside, it has extremely good battery life. I'ts been really tough.

The downside, it's too slow for editing photos. The speakers stink, so you can't watch Netflix without headphones or external speakers. It has no optical drive, so you can't watch DVDs when you're stuck inside in the rain and have no Internet connection.

OpenCPN seems to run ok on even the slowest machines, though.

I also have a 15" Dell XPS with a Sandy Bridge and Core I7. Smoking machine, great build quality, but the battery lasts about an hour and half max. It cost way too much to chance getting wet, so it's rarely on the boat unless I'm doing work down there.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

We primarily use laptops (4 to the boat). I have never had any problems, ever, with laptops on board. THey are compact, dont use much power, and are now relatively inexpeisve. I own my company and bought a LOT of different brands. I was a Dell fan for a while, but am not pretty hooked to HP. I got a Pavillion g series I3 in the last many weeks and am overall pleased with it. Only thing I don't like is the screwy mouse pad but circument it by plugging in a external mouse and this one disconnects. I am typing off it right now.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

BTW, if you are going to spend, put the money in the memory versus a superfast processor (IMHO).

Brian


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## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

Yeah I meant to add 90% plus of what I do is web/email/MSOffice. Don't know much about chips, but was planning to go i5 instead of i3. Thought it might be better long term.


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## Jetexas (Apr 3, 2012)

utchuckd said:


> Yeah I meant to add 90% plus of what I do is web/email/MSOffice. Don't know much about chips, but was planning to go i5 instead of i3. Thought it might be better long term.


The Core i5 is essentially the same chip/speed as the old Quad Cores, just an updated design with a new socket and name, so you can't use the old chips in the new motherboards. They're plenty for most tasks.

The Core i3s are crap.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

Being liveaboard cruisers we buy one of the cheaper laptops sold at China-mart (wal-mart) incase something happens to it we would be able to return it any where we are.
We are at presant useing a Compaq Presario cq56 it seems to meet all our needs,E-mails,You-tube to see my son's bands videos and to get on this site.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not a solution for MSOffice, but our Ipad has fully replaced the laptop aboard. Built in 3G wireless access for when no wifi is available and a built in gps receiver to run nav software. Email and web surfing are great. Ridiculously easy to use and store.

Actually, I can read any MSOffice file sent to me, I just can't easily create one. I have not tried the apps that claim you can.

edit: I don't use them, but I've seen several external keyboards too.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

How big is the space you have to work with, and how much of that space do you want your computing solution to occupy and how much power do you want it to consume?

I've got a netbook with a 10" screen, and a wireless keyboard for ease of input. I'm clumsy enough with a full size keyboard, let alone the liliputian facsimile on a netbook. Don't even get me started on thumbtyping on smartphones and touch-screen faux-keyboards on tablets. When I'm ranting, I want to be able to hear the keys wail in pain.
Stowed, the entire package is less than 18" x 8" x 2". It's fast enough.I'm running all of the usual business suspects- powerpoint, outlook, excel, word, publisher, a couple of photo editing programs and a crapload of CAD programs like Draftsight. All have functioned without fail, and my machine has never crashed on me. memory is adequate to store thousands of images and tens of thousands of pages of text, and with 16-32 gig thumbdrives now costing next to nothing, big storage now takes up less space than a deck of cards. If you're a gamer, or a content pirate, it's not gonna do what you want, but for an adult looking for a business solution it's been more than adequate.
Energy consumption is low, and screen size is adequate. If i had shorepower, or a dozen square feet of solar power, I might consider mounting a 20" monitor on the bulkhead, but this set-up has done the job for more than three years without fail, and with a total cost of under $300.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

If web/email/docs then really you don't need anything all that high end and usually lower end use less power. 

I work mainly on docs and the like plus need to read graphics files though I don't create my own. I'm now on an Acer 5750G running Windows 7 and I must say its a damn fine wee machine. I also used to be a Dell buyer but have been disappointed with their uality and service of late so went Acer and don't regret it. Overall though I do also like HP. 

On another level onetime SailNetter 'Omatako' who sadly has been absent for awhile put me onto the idea of used Windows XP machines. We have in our business a single program that amazingly enough is DOS based and so we need to keep a single XP machine for that application. As XP fades from the scene I've been buying up second hand machines for next to nothing and they will eventually end up on the boat as spares. For what we need they are more than adequate.

As for Windows 8 I have seen some concerns raised about its over reliance on this so called CLOUD thingy and that for sailors who may well be out of internet contact for long periods of time this may be a problem. I obviously do not know much about this stuff, only repeating what I read.

Andrew B


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

a PS to my previous post ..... on board, in the office and at home I use trackballs not mouse. Trackballs have never really taken off and for the life of me I do not understand why. 

Longterm I'd like a screen mount on a bracket above the chart table with a wirless keyboard and wireless trackball. For me with a tablet for the cockpit, perfection.

ab


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## BayWindRider (Jan 27, 2010)

I bet an iMac would be good if it didn't suck up so much power. You could mount it on the chart table or even the wall and use a wireless keyboard. Hmm...


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

I have an old Sony Vaio with a 17" screen....it runs Vista, which is incredibly clunky sometimes, but the computer has decent speed and memory, and since it has a built-in blu-ray player and the bigger screen it's what I use for watching movies or videos on the boat. I also use it for e-mail, surfing the net, and editing photos. Over the almost 5 years it's been on the boat I've never had a problem with it other than the fact that it runs Vista. Which sucks.

I have a GPS antenna that connects via the USB port but haven't found a chartplotting software that works on it very well yet....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Another advantage of the Ipad, is I can more easily bring it to shore and grab a wifi signal to download apps or large files or just read the paper in a coffee shop. Laptops are clunky for that.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Dan loves his ipad for its portability and battery life and ability to charge directly from 12V instead of going thru an inverter. But I don't think you could use that for your *only* computer; we have an inexpensive laptop in addition. (I won't recommend the particular Gateway I'm using because I'm not all that wow about it, power piggy that it is). I just buy cheap laptops, do lots of backups, and plan to replace every 3 or so years, as the technology changes and the harsh marine environment wears on them.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

tdw said:


> If web/email/docs then really you don't need anything all that high end and usually lower end use less power.
> 
> I work mainly on docs and the like plus need to read graphics files though I don't create my own. I'm now on an Acer 5750G running Windows 7 and I must say its a damn fine wee machine. I also used to be a Dell buyer but have been disappointed with their uality and service of late so went Acer and don't regret it. Overall though I do also like HP.
> 
> Andrew B


Yea, they are basically all the same now. Often made in the same contract factories. How many LCD producers are there out there? Not that many I venture to guess. Certainly Dell does not make them. So you go by specs that you require for the tasks you intend to do, then if you need support look into that, then finally price. I normally get what ever there is a good deal on, as they are basically all the same low quality. There may be a few differences like track-pads, but nothing that would be a deal killer for me. I would love to go with a Mac Book Pro, but I just can't justify the cost and don't like Apple's way of closing the OS. I do mostly photo editing and am really wondering if I can find a laptop I will be happy with. I may just wind up making 12 volt pc and use a bulkhead mounted monitor for photo editing, and movies and stick to an android tablet for the rest of my tasks. The new Google nexus 7 looks to be the bomb, and if it will run Navionics should be the bees knee especially for $199 to $249.


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## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

I have a netbook that for now is mostly used for checking my twitter feed and surfing while plopped on the couch in front of the tv. The battery life on it is crap, so I wouldn't mind moving on to a tablet for most of that stuff. Most of my files (except my tunes) are on dropbox so I'm not a huge memory hog, so maybe a low to mid range laptop and tablet?


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## joelsanda (Aug 7, 2011)

utchuckd said:


> What's worth getting/staying away from as far as computering on board? It's time to update my puter situation so may as well start planning for it. Go cheap laptop that's easy to replace? More expensive and durable that will last? Combo with laptop/tablet? Any usage/storage tips to extend its life?


One thing you should be aware of are moisture sensors and how computer manufacturers are adding more of these each year. Moisture sensors that have been tripped, of course, void any warranty. Apple, for example, has increased the moisture sensors on the MacBook Pro from eight to _ten_!

I'd go with a tablet that has minimal inputs if you can get by with that. In particular the iPad - that thing is sealed _real_ well and has only two inputs:

Power/sync cable
Headphone
There are also two buttons - the middle bottom one for the Home screen and top power button. When you look at how many places moisture can enter a laptop it's like comparing a storm door to a screen door. Additionally, there are 'waterproof' covers for the iPad that surround the access ports, but still enabling access to the Power and Home buttons.

I don't own my sailboat yet, but I do sail on the club boats where I live. I have no problem tossing my iPad in my daypack. Incidental water exposure from an indirect splash isn't a concern with that, and of course it can be hooked up to a GPS or used to play some music


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Just to throw it out there: I am planning to build a oil cooled PC into an area of the boat yet to be decided, likely under wherever I decide I like to sleep the most.
Advantages are: hardware is totally protected from water/salt/corrosion, in a sealed oil bath except for power supply and hard drive.
Disadvantage is that warranty coverage is of course null and void.
A friend of mine and I had an oil PC in a rubbermaid tub for years, basically just filled the tub with oil, pulled the fans off the video card and motherboard and dropped it in.
It was amazing how warm it made the bed it was under at night, it was like an oil filled heater but getting double the usage since it was doing the computing as well, and the oil would slowly release heat over the evening.
I'll likely do it in an otter box or similar. 

Otherwise I like a mid range laptop, enough power for photo edits, but low battery consumtion. Acer timelines aren't bad.

For power supply for anything not macintosh I'd go with the iGo charger.
AC or 12v DC in, laptop power and one USB power port out. Survived over 15, 000 km in a motorcycle tank bag charging a laptop on the bike last year so fine for a boat.


EDIT: LCD quality varies hugely, especially in the lower end. Often low end stuff is actually higher power consumption than the high end stuff tailored to long batt life. 

Moisture sensors are the devil. Cell phones are getting even worse now, my neighbors phone quit from the moisture in the air, when it tripped it actually stops the phone working. NOT NICE.


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## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

How do you all handle backups? External HD? Cloud/on-line services?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

utchuckd said:


> How do you all handle backups? External HD? Cloud/on-line services?


I have two external HDs. I alternate between them for backups and keep at least one off the boat.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

utchuckd said:


> How do you all handle backups? External HD? Cloud/on-line services?


My current plan is going to be a combination of all of the above. I have a PC that will be staying with my X wife's and it has a bunch of redundant drives. I will backup over the network to that pc, to local external HDDs (one located in my car one on boat) and will back up to various cloud services. Most of my music is already backed up on Google Music but they have a limit of 20,000 songs, I have an account with skydrive with 25 gig for a variety of files, and may go with a commercial account for cloud photo backup as I have close to a terabyte of images. That is the problem with the newer cameras, they produce huge files. It is a pain keeping track with so many sources, but it spreads the risk. If I go commercial cloud service I will likely do a scheduled complete system backup scheduled when I have good Ethernet connection when visiting my kids.


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

It is amazing how radically things change in the laptop world. Two years ago salesmen and repair men were all touting HP. Now most repairmen are suggesting anything but HP or Dell. My experience with HP service under warranty has very aggravating. It took 29 days for HP to acknowledge I owned an HP laptop whose screen failed 22 days after purchase. 
Staples service has been excellent. They are always gracious, there is a store in nearly every decent sized town. Most important the repair guys are also salesmen. It seems important to them to build a happy relationship so you will be back for your next purchase. AND they ALL speak ENGLISH. 
Not being a geek the following needs to be carefully considered. On two occasions we have had major problems with desktop units. The telephone service was pleasant, and both problems were solved quickly - in about the time I spend on the telephone automated systems at HP.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

dongreerps said:


> It is amazing how radically things change in the laptop world. Two years ago salesmen and repair men were all touting HP. Now most repairmen are suggesting anything but HP or Dell. My experience with HP service under warranty has very aggravating. It took 29 days for HP to acknowledge I owned an HP laptop whose screen failed 22 days after purchase.
> Staples service has been excellent. They are always gracious, there is a store in nearly every decent sized town. Most important the repair guys are also salesmen. It seems important to them to build a happy relationship so you will be back for your next purchase. AND they ALL speak ENGLISH.
> Not being a geek the following needs to be carefully considered. On two occasions we have had major problems with desktop units. The telephone service was pleasant, and both problems were solved quickly - in about the time I spend on the telephone automated systems at HP.


Most of them are made in the same factories so there really is not much difference between the brands, more difference in after sales service. They basically are all now contract made, by the lowest bidder in China. I was talking to one of my IBM repair techs (we are a reseller of IBM and other brands of Point of Sale hardware) at work. He was lamenting the old days when a system would not ship without at least 48 hours of burn in time, and there was actually quality control checks. But if IBM was making lap tops here in the US to there old standards they would likely start at $3000 and no one would by them. But they would out last there usefulness.

Funny how what goes around comes around. We were bought out by another company and they are closing the call center in the Philippines because our help desk in New York is actually cheaper per call and has a much higher satisfaction rate.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Dell do seem to have lost it customer service wise. Our last two PCs and last notebook were Dell, latest two notebooks are Acer and I'm pretty happy with them. 

Tablet land is my next destination. Not sure which way to leap, maybe Acer again. Was going Samsung but keep hearing not so good things.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

tdw said:


> Dell do seem to have lost it customer service wise. Our last two PCs and last notebook were Dell, latest two notebooks are Acer and I'm pretty happy with them.
> 
> Tablet land is my next destination. Not sure which way to leap, maybe Acer again. Was going Samsung but keep hearing not so good things.


I can't wait to get one of these:

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_7_8GB?id=nexus_7_8gb

Made for Google by Asus.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

I own a couple of Asus netbooks. One is Linux (which I use for movies because it has better sound). The other one is used for internet, movies sometimes, and I'm using Polar Navy navigation software with a GPS puck (Win XP) as a backup for the Garmin 441s. I use stick drives for holding movies, data, and music. 

Now that I have an iPhone 4S, I'll probably be using it more than the netbooks. Need to get a cig lighter charger to use on the boat. Eventually, I'll get a solar charger to use with the phone and the netbooks. Possibly next week.


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