# Sabre 34-2s vs Call 33-2



## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

I missed a chance to purchase the only available Sabre 34-2 CB in my price range and am now looking at a Cal 33. Both are mid to late 80's vintage. I'm looking for a respectable performance cruiser in the 32-35 foot range with draft less than 5 feet capable of going offshore. I would appreciate comments comparing these two boats or even suggestions on other boats meeting my criteria. Our immediate plans are to sail her from FL to Puerto Rico and then cruise Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. She would be moored in Puerto Rico. All else being equal, i prefer the sleek euro style such as you find with a Wauquiez. Basically, we're looking for a miniature Hood 38. Thanks
Pete


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

prroots said:


> I missed a chance to purchase the only available Sabre 34-2 CB in my price range and am now looking at a Cal 33. Both are mid to late 80's vintage. I'm looking for a respectable performance cruiser in the 32-35 foot range with draft less than 5 feet capable of going offshore. I would appreciate comments comparing these two boats or even suggestions on other boats meeting my criteria. Our immediate plans are to sail her from FL to Puerto Rico and then cruise Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. She would be moored in Puerto Rico. All else being equal, i prefer the sleek euro style such as you find with a Wauquiez. Basically, we're looking for a miniature Hood 38. Thanks
> Pete


I know Cal's are considered pretty good sailors, but don't know much else about them or their suitablity for handling your defintion of "offshore". If offshore is not much more than what's described in your immediate plans then "offshore" falls into what many would consider coastal crusing. If you plans are that passages would be 3-5 days duration and you could choose your weather window within your comfort level (which is likely to be well within the limits the boat) then a properly equipped Cal or Sabre will likely be a suitable choice.

You didn't mention your price range but if you have an affinity for Wauquiez and want a boat in the 33-35' range have you considered the Pretorian 35? Its built to a standard that most would consider a true bluewater Ocean crosser.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Cal made a great boat, but I would not consider it in the same class as a Sabre. The Sabre 34 is a great boat and I would wait until one became available. There is a reason why so few are available. 

This one looks good. With some work, could be really nice. Price is in line with most Sabres. BTW - If the price is a bit higher than your price range, keep in mind the the delta between your ideal price and the purchase price amortized over 10 or 15 years of ownership is miniscule. Sabres hold their value very very well.

1987 Sabre 34 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I'm not an expert and you didn't give a price range, but a few boats I think you should consider (it's easy for me to spend your money) are:

C&C Landfall 35
Tartan 33 or 34
CS 33

Good luck,
Barry


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I own a Cal 33-2 shoal draft. I also looked at the Sabre 34-2 when looking and am very happy with my choice. I found the quality of the two boats pretty comparable (sorry Sabreman). The Cal shoal version sails very well - goes to weather well and not tender at all. And no centerboard to deal with like the Sabre 34-2. I like the interior layout of the Cal better than the Sabre. Better engine access and a true double quarter berth with privacy curtain (no aft coffin!). Either would be suitable for what you propose. At 20+ years old, condition is everything. That should drive your choice.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

midlifesailor said:


> You didn't mention your price range but if you have an affinity for Wauquiez and want a boat in the 33-35' range have you considered the Pretorian 35? Its built to a standard that most would consider a true bluewater Ocean crosser.


Thanks. The only shoal draft Wauquiez of which I'm aware is the Hood 38. We're not prepared to give up on our shoal draft criteria much as we like the looks and quality construction of Wauquiez.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Sabreman said:


> The Sabre 34 is a great boat and I would wait until one became available. There is a reason why so few are available.
> 
> This one looks good. With some work, could be really nice. Price is in line with most Sabres.
> 
> 1987 Sabre 34 MKII Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


Thanks. We corresponded with the broker and unfortunately, it's a fixed keel with 6 foot draft.

Wait for one to become available you say. That hurts! We've even started considering the Sabre 36CB and 36WK. BTW, what's the difference between a Sabre 36 and 362; just curious since the 262's are well out of our price range. Also, would a Sabre 36 be as good as a Sabre 34-2 in most respects?
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

midlifesailor said:


> If offshore is not much more than what's described in your immediate plans then "offshore" falls into what many would consider coastal crusing. If you plans are that passages would be 3-5 days duration and you could choose your weather window within your comfort level (which is likely to be well within the limits the boat) then a properly equipped Cal or Sabre will likely be a suitable choice.


We've made the passage direct from FL to Puerto Rico; It's about a 1000 nm as the crow flies and well beyond the ability to estimate a weather window. Of course we could do the trip via the Bahamas, T&C, and Dominican Republic which may be what you are referring to. We've done that before too, but with waiting for weather windows at each step one must figure on months not days to make the trip!
Pete


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> BTW, what's the difference between a Sabre 36 and 362


The 36 is an older model and the 362 is a more modern design. Similar to what they are now producing, only smaller. The difference came about after the company briefly went bankrupt sometime in the 1990's (ish). The new line has somewhat more powerful aft sections and more current styling. With that said, Sabre is known for a rather classic styling that to me, hold it's looks over time. if you contact Sabre, they can provide details.

The 36 is a very nice boat. We briefly considered one but at the time. There was only 1 available but it needed a lot of work. We were actually looking for a 34 but fell into our 38 through a wonderful broker at Annapolis Yacht Sales (Dan Nardo). In all my searches, I somehow missed our 38 (and a 34). I'd give Dan a call; AYC is a real class outfit and the brokerage fee is well worth it IMO. PM me if you desire details.

BTW - IMO, For the most part, the buyer seldom realizes the savings that they think that they are getting when making a private purchase. The seller isn't using a broker because they want to keep all or most of the money that they'd pay to a broker. It's so difficult to compare boat prices for boats due to age, condition, and equipment, that there is no way to really know if the seller is passing all or even some of the brokerage savings. I say this because I am really positive toward brokers except for small vessels, one designs, or large volume production boats (Catalina, Bene, etc).


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I would second Sabremans evaluation of Of Dan Nardo at AYS. He got us hooked up into our C&C 35 MKIII. Professional outfit and he truly works for you as the buyer.

Dave


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

Never noticed until reading this thread but the 34-2 looks almost exactly like the San Juan 34. The forward end of the house is a little taller on the Sabre and the ballast to displacement ration is lower but everything else is nearly identical. 

There were a few SJ-34's built with shallow draft in the Carolina plant.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Thanks a lot for all the feedback. We've had a slight change of direction; we call it plan B! We've decided that we will live aboard the boat that we're now searching for. This allows us to justify a larger and somewhat more expensive boat. For this reason our immediate focus is now on Sabre 36, 362, and 38-2 in either centerboard or wing keel configurations. We've never stepped aboard any of these boats and we've found none here in FL where we're presently hanging out. Prices of 36's are well within our original range whereas prices of 362's and 38-2 are substantially higher and about equal with the 362's being much newer. I'd appreciate any comments comparing these 3 different boats. The 362 has an amazing PHRF factor (compared to the other two) and we do like the sugar scoop for snorkeling and swimming in the warm Caribbean waters. I'm not sure how storage compares on the 362 vs 38-2 which becomes much more important when living aboard? Wonder which one would hold it's value the best? I suspect that all 3 have cored hulls? The other consideration is delivery to FL. We consider it pretty feasible for boats located in the Chesapeake area or further South. Our blood is a bit thin for boats further North!
Pete


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Obviously, I have strong opinions regarding the 38. :laugher

We have a Mk1 and it is awesome; I've expounded on it's characteristics through out SailNet. If you are living aboard, the 38 would be a better choice even if more expensive. Question - when you refer to 38-2, do you mean 382 or 38 Mk II? I can speak the to the 38 series and to a lesser extent, the 382.

Yes, our hull is cored. There was some discussion about a month ago on these threads regarding how much was cored. The construction schedule link that follows is from my owners manual and indicates that coring is from the waterline up. There was a conflicting information that seemed to indicate that it was throughout. Personally, I'm not worried about it at all. Just look for any damage to the hull below the waterline; your surveyor will also do moisture checks that will show any issues. While there are issues with other cored boats, I've never heard of any issues with Sabre's coring.

I have the full product catalog from circa 1990. PM me if you want me to scan and send you the 36 and 38 pages.

Construction Schedule: Sabre 38 Hull Schedule

Other 38 Mk I Photos: VICTORIA (and her mistress)


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Sabreman said:


> Obviously, I have strong opinions regarding the 38. :laugher
> 
> We have a Mk1 and it is awesome; I've expounded on it's characteristics through out SailNet. If you are living aboard, the 38 would be a better choice even if more expensive. Question - when you refer to 38-2, do you mean 382 or 38 Mk II? I can speak the to the 38 series and to a lesser extent, the 382.


Thanks for the feedback. I am referring to the 38 Mk2. My primary reference is:
http://www.sabreyachts.com/pdf/Years-Production.pdf

which lists 38 Mk1, 38 Mk2, and 386. Maybe I should also be considering the 38 Mk1. I see the PHRF factors for Mk1 and Mk2 are about the same. I just heard from two brokers concerning the 362's. Both reported serious deck crazing.
Pete


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

We have a Mk I, Hull 51 built in 1984.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback. We are planning to check out some Sabre 38 Mk1's and Mk2's. According to the Sabre online brochures there are some substantial layout differences between these two boats. The Mk1 layout seems to be the more traditional layout that I'm familiar with. Here are the brochures: 
http://www.sabreyachts.com/pdf/S38-Series-1.pdf
http://www.sabreyachts.com/pdf/S38-Series-2.pdf

Note: the Mk1 brochure shows two layouts; I am not considering the 'aft cabin' version of the Mk1. Based only of a study of the brochures it seems that the Mk2 has significantly enlarged the quarter berth and in the process taken space from below cockpit and perhaps the galley (compared to Mk1). The Mk2 is 10 inches longer and 10 inches wider so perhaps they have in some way compensated? Since we are a couple and prefer to sleep in the V-berth due to greater ventilation, this may not be a good trade-off? Also, we want to find space for 4 golf cart batteries and the area under cockpit aft of engine might be a possibility especially on the Mk1? Comments anyone?
Pete


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

prroots said:


> We've made the passage direct from FL to Puerto Rico; It's about a 1000 nm as the crow flies and well beyond the ability to estimate a weather window. Of course we could do the trip via the Bahamas, T&C, and Dominican Republic which may be what you are referring to. We've done that before too, but with waiting for weather windows at each step one must figure on months not days to make the trip!
> Pete


But how far from safe harbor at any given point? It seems there are ample places you could bail out along that route if there were weather issues or problems with the boat.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

midlifesailor said:


> But how far from safe harbor at any given point? It seems there are ample places you could bail out along that route if there were weather issues or problems with the boat.


Yes, that's true. Once while making a direct passage, we broke the forestay and turned downwind and made it safely to T&C to effect repairs. It turned out that there was no toggle at top of forestay and it fatigued in the athwartship direction. 
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

We contacted Dan Nardo at AYS as recommended above. He has recommended the Beneteau 411 or 400 as being an offshore performance cruiser with a draft of 4'-9". We had not previously considered Beneteau, but he sure made a strong case for her abilities offshore. He showed us examples of a 2001 Beneteau 411 and an older 400 here in Annapolis which were beautiful. Comments anyone?
Pete


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Say hi to Dan for us.  

I always liked Beneteau's styling. The fuller stern sections and greater interior volume should serve you well in a liveaboard situation. Beneteau's quality should serve your intended purpose


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Sabreman said:


> Say hi to Dan for us.
> 
> I always liked Beneteau's styling. The fuller stern sections and greater interior volume should serve you well in a liveaboard situation. Beneteau's quality should serve your intended purpose


Thanks sabreman. That means a lot coming from you! We were pretty much sold on the construction, but remain uncertain of her stability given it's light displacement and ballast relative to more conventional offshore cruising boats. Of course, we don't plan to cross oceans so perhaps, as you say, it's adequate for our planned usage. I would be very interested in hearing negatives of the Beneteau given that the salesman was most effective citing the benefits!
Pete


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> I would be very interested in hearing negatives of the Beneteau given that the salesman was most effective citing the benefits!


Where's Bene505 when you need him? :laugher


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Can anyone share the differences between Sabres and Beneteaus with respect to construction, seaworthiness, and ability to maintain value? Thanks
Pete


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## radiohead (Jan 3, 2011)

*sabre34 vs cal33*

I've also looked at the Sabre34II that Sabreman referenced and am wondering what "with some work could be very nice" would entail. I don't have a lot of time for maintenance and the boat pics in Yachtworld don't seem to me to indicate that the boat needs work


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

radio - I went back and looked at the boat again and from the relatively small photos, she looks nice. I see that the exterior covers look pretty good, but the shot is from a distance. The vang looks like a recent Garhauser addition - very nice. The interior lighting looks updated. The cushions look original, if so then they probably smell moldy. The floor looks pretty good, but I'd check around the mast to see if there were any of the drainage problems so common in this vintage Sabre.



> the boat pics in Yachtworld don't seem to me to indicate that the boat needs work


All boats of this vintage need work. I wish that it weren't so, but it is. I have no idea about the health of the engine, drive train, sails, etc. When we purchased Victoria in 2005, she was in pretty good condition but needed running rigging and a good cleaning. To date, the following is a list of what we've done to a boat in "good shape".

Wax Hull
Oil/filter & fuel filter service
Lube winches.
Lube rudder shaft
Bottom paint 
Replace Battery Charger
Replace interior lights
Replace AM/FM w/ CD/AM/FM
Replace GPS/ remove Loran
Remove screen from diesel fuel line
Replace wing nuts w/ aircraft nuts on batteries
Rebuild steps
Zero Compass
Replace mainsail cover, wheel cover, winch covers, bimini cover
Install leather wheel cover
Service Masthead lights
Repair bulkhead in anchor well
Install stainless air vents
Replace running rigging
PSS shaft seal
1" diameter shaft x 48" length 
Cutlass bearing (1 3/8")
Knotmeter paddle wheel replacement 
Replace cabin light for Vberth w/Anti-corrosion 
Repair port fwd lower chainplate & associated cabinetry
Fill hole in leading edge of keel 
Overhaul port side through-hulls. Work all others.
Repair centerboard pendant (Port Kinsale)
new bilge pump switch. 
R/R check valve
Install vented loopfor auto bilge pump
Install bronze A/C discharge thru hull fitting.
Replace clinometer
Install soap & toothbrush holders
New o-rings for depth sounder & knowmeter
install hatch holders on lazarette hatches
Refrubish genoa
Replace starter solenoid
Build new Vberth, Qtr berth, & spacer cushions
New engine tachometer
Fix F/W system. Bypass accumulator, bypass H/W heater.
Purchase & install new radio & home speakers
reapir rotted anchor well bulkhead
Rebuild F/W pump
Refinish cabin sole
Repair fordeck light
Finish interior w/ urethane
Certified water hose & fittings for A/C sea water intake
Build new Bimini
Repair stbd upper lifeline stern rail fitting
Paint hatch frame white/ new gasketing
Replace Raw Water pump
New cushion foam
Replace engine raw water pump
Repair galley delta faucet
Refurbish Wind Guage/ Knotmeter
Replace Fresh Water pump
Strip Bottom, fair keel.
new 7:1 vang
new VHF radio
Fix anchor well wood strip. Replace w/ painted pressure treated wood 
Repaint waterline & sheer stripe (Port Kinsale/MM) 
Repair Refrigerator
New Lifelines
New-ish biradial 145% genoa/new lufftape
high gloss varnish interior window frames, overhead trim
new VHF handheld
strip/refinish cockpit teak
Rebuild pressure water pump
New genoa
LED masthead & Stern lights
Strip Bottom Paint/fair keel
Dodger
Bimini
life ring
lantern
NAV software & GPS
NAV charts
Cowl (2 - 4" round)
Cowl (4 - 4" low profile)
swivel reading light (brass)
running rigging
Leather Cover for wheel


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## boomvangdc (Oct 28, 2010)

prroots,

I was going to recommend this article (What Is The Best Racing Boat And Cruising Boat For Under $50,000? | Daily Sailing News from North American Sailor but it looks like you've moved on to bigger things. You might check in with the author of this blog (How To Buy A Used Sailboat - Step 4 Finding YOUR Boat - Messing About In Sailboats) who recently purchased a Sabre and wrote up a detailed series on his process for buying the boat. (He was looking at the 38 MK1 and MK2).

There are a ton of Beneteaus down in Caribbean waters - they are comfortable and reasonably well-made and because they are so popular, you may find it easier to get parts. Don't think they sail as well as the Sabre, though, and if you are planning on keeping it long-term I think the Sabre materials are higher quality.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

boomvangdc said:


> prroots,
> 
> I was going to recommend this article (What Is The Best Racing Boat And Cruising Boat For Under $50,000? | Daily Sailing News from North American Sailor but it looks like you've moved on to bigger things. You might check in with the author of this blog (How To Buy A Used Sailboat - Step 4 Finding YOUR Boat - Messing About In Sailboats) who recently purchased a Sabre and wrote up a detailed series on his process for buying the boat. (He was looking at the 38 MK1 and MK2).
> 
> There are a ton of Beneteaus down in Caribbean waters - they are comfortable and reasonably well-made and because they are so popular, you may find it easier to get parts. Don't think they sail as well as the Sabre, though, and if you are planning on keeping it long-term I think the Sabre materials are higher quality.


Thanks for the reply. We've also seen lots of Beneteaus in the Caribbean. The ones coming out of charter are mostly the 3 cabin version; we wanted the 2 cabin. Also, we wanted the shoal draft version and many are deep draft. I'm sure the Sabres are better constructed, but for the same money we'd be into a much older Sabre and probably need to invest more to get her ready for cruising. Also this time around our boat will be used to a greater degree than before as a floating condo. Finally, we decided to live aboard which explains our move up from a smaller Sabre to a much larger Beneteau, the 411. Hopefully, we'll be happy with this boat; she has been little used, but lots of corrosion in electrical systems due to sitting idle at dock for more than 3 years.
Pete


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