# lazy jacks



## Maineac38 (Jul 14, 2009)

We recently purchased a 1988 Irwin Citation 38. It turns out the main is simply too much for the two of us. I've been researching lazy jack systems, but can't settle on a make. There are so many positive and negative reviews. I'll take any suggestions. I'd like to make a purchase soon.

Thanks for your help!!!!

Michael


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

I would suggest that you make your own. There is nothing complicated about lazy jacks and you can save a lot of money by fabricating them yourself. 
I would also suggest that whatever you decide on, you have the kind that you can lower so that the sailcover can be used without having to be modified. Also, I have had good success installing lazy jack from a block hanging from the bottom of the lower spreaders. This is better than a cheek block attached to the mast in that it creates a vee that makes it easier to get the main sail headboard past.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Knothead is right on (he should be after all ) about the retractable capability of any system you choose or build. I also recommend the block from the spreader vs. the block on the mast...keeps the lines away which = less noise  

I went with this one FWIW: www. ezjax .com


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I like the system that combines lazy jacks and sail cover. My main is by no means too big to handle, but dumping into the cover contains it better than lazy jacks alone. This is a plus for me since I'm often doing it alone.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd second making your own... I wrote about the system I made for my boat on my *blog*.


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## osirissail (Oct 27, 2009)

I made my own "stackpacks/mackpack" sail cover/lazy jack system and saved a thousand bucks (I have a 50ft sailboat with 450sqft mainsail). The lazy jack system is built first and then you sew up two vertical long panels that will ride inside the lazy jacks (attached to each down-line to hold up the sides up) tall enough to cover the flaked sail. Actually the long panels are sort of triangular as the part at the end of the boom need not be as large as the part at the mast. I even sewed in a horizontal panel between the left and right side vertical panels that has a long zipper in it. I can zip up the "bag" and the mainsail is totally enclosed and protected from the sun's UV and rain and dirt.


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

I took the liberty of adapting saildog's picture (hope he doesn't mind) to add something I´ve fit to my lazyjack system after I experienced some difficulties in keeping it adjusted to a constant tension either while sailing or while at anchor with the boom raised:

I simply replaced a length of about 1 meter with shock cord!










This way I could discard the cleat system oftenly used to adjust lazy jack tension to the different situations.

I've seen to many guys forgetting to adjust their lazy jacks and either sailing with them over tensioned, thus interfeering with sail shape, or trying to put the sail down with the lazy jacks to loose and strugling to keep the sail on top of the boom...

In my boat the shock cord (which took a bit of experimentation to find the right length) does the trick for me, keeping the lazy jacks under just the right tension.

Regards!


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## osirissail (Oct 27, 2009)

- - Shock cord or the rubber spring cord will loose its elastic capabilities when the cord is exposed to sunlight. It takes a few months but eventually the rubber inside part relaxes and no longer has any stretch. This can be delayed by coating the outside cover of the cord with ordinary suntan lotion SPF 40 or the highest SPF value you can find. Then the cord will last double or more the length of time. But you need to renew the suntan lotion every month or two.


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

osirissail said:


> - - Shock cord or the rubber spring cord will loose its elastic capabilities when the cord is exposed to sunlight. It takes a few months but eventually the rubber inside part relaxes and no longer has any stretch. This can be delayed by coating the outside cover of the cord with ordinary suntan lotion SPF 40 or the highest SPF value you can find. Then the cord will last double or more the length of time. But you need to renew the suntan lotion every month or two.


Hey, that's a nice tip, altough sun lotion is a lot more expensive than 2m of shock cord 

I've also experienced the issue you describe but only after one year or so and, here in Portugal, the sun shines during most of the year.

Nevertheless everyone adopting the shock cord system should keep orissail advice in mind: Shock cord doesn't last forever! (like anything else on board)

Still I prefer to change it every once in a while than having to manually tigthen the lazy jack everytime I raise my boom... 

Regards!


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Lazy Jacks help you with the sails. Lazy Janes won't even do the dishes.   
But you should research the Lazy Jacks and make your own that will fit your boat.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm going contrarian here myself and am planning to purchase a integrated cover/lazy jack system from my boat. I'm most likely going with the MackPack, primarily due to it being about 1/2 as expensive as other similar systems I've seen. I really don't expect it to be a simple as the downsized models dispayed at the boat show, but so long as the sail stays off the deck, I won't mind having to go forward and tuck it away fully.

Yes it would be cheaper to build my own lazyjacks, but I'd have to then pay to modify my current sail cover, so the total coast might be 30% or more of the MackPack. It also makes dropping the sail and securing the sail more of a single process which will likely save some time every time you sail.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

midlifesailor said:


> Yes it would be cheaper to build my own lazyjacks, but I'd have to then pay to modify my current sail cover, so the total coast might be 30% or more of the MackPack.


No, you wouldn't have to modify your sailcover if you make the lazyjacks retractable. See posts #2 and #3.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

knothead said:


> No, you wouldn't have to modify your sailcover if you make the lazyjacks retractable. See posts #2 and #3.


I will second that.

Retractable lazy jacks make it easier to raise the main. The battens do not foul and there is less likelihood that the main halyard gets fed the wrong way.

A separate sail cover allows you see the foot of your main when you you trim the outhaul.

A separate sail cover permits you to leave the cover off and the halyard on, tied through the foremost sail tie, when at anchor or on a mooring.

The only integrated sail cover I seen that I liked rolled up against the boom and stowed nicely.

My $.02.

Jack


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## MtHopeBay (Jul 10, 2008)

*what is retractable*

What is meant by retractable? Are lazyjacks usually a fixed rigging? My Balboa 24 came with lazyjacks and I was planning to remove them this winter so I'm following this thread with interest.

Mine look like Harken 252 for small boat but instead of a continuous control line that is fixed on one side of the boom, goes under the boom and is cleated on the other side, it has a seperate control line on each side of the boom, one end of which snaps to a pad eye on the aft half of the boom and the other end cleats on the forward end of the boom. They get removed and then tie off to cleats on the mast when not used.

They were of little use and usually got in the way when hoisting sail. I hadn't considered attaching them to blocks on the spreaders but now I will.
Mike


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

jackdale said:


> I will second that.
> 
> Retractable lazy jacks make it easier to raise the main. The battens do not foul and there is less likelihood that the main halyard gets fed the wrong way.
> 
> ...


Its a 4 or 5 step process then. Drop the sail, dress the flaking, tie sailties, retract the jacks, install cover (which you're not likely to do at anchor. Add a step at the start to tension the jacks if you retracted them while you were sailing. I don't see the big deal on leaving the halyard attached. If you had a Mack Pack or Similar you could still do that if you wanted.

The Mack Pack is one of the integrated covers that allows you to retract the jacks and roll the cover alongside the boom if you like, and I think even with it up, you'd be able to see the foot well enough to trim the outhaul. I have to go to the mast to trim the outhaul anyway, so I'd defintely be able to see what was going on on my boat. I can see were it might be an issue if your outhaul is lead aft and you didn't roll the cover up.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I attach the halyard at the dock and detach it when I return to the dock.

Jack


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## jbarros (Jul 30, 2002)

I'm curious if the boat I crew on is in the minority. It's an older Gozzard, sailed by a gentleman whom is the model of a civilized sailor I wish to become. Everything is done with the right knot, every item on the boat has a place, and stays there, (unlike any other boat I've ever sailed on) and he makes that dog of a boat sail like it's a racer. He also has lazy jacks, so that he can "single hand" when his family feels more like riding on a sail boat than crewing. I can't imagine he'd do something untowards, but I have to ask about other peoples take on his setup. 

On his boat, the Jacks stay forward, and are not connected to the boom at all, excepting right before he lowers sail. He'll lock off the wheel, go forward and connect the lazy jacks to the boom, and drop the sail. The sail then gets tied, and the sail cover goes on with the jacks still on. 

When we go out, the main comes up with the jacks still on, to prevent it from spilling off the boom, and then the jacks are removed from the boom and attached forward shortly after we commence sailing. It seems to work very well for him, and because the jacks are forward and tight when not in use, they're quiet and do not rub against the sail at all, excepting while raising or lowering, which I can't help but think is a lot better for the life of the sail than any system where they're constantly up. 

Is this not a standard way of doing things? 

Thanks  

-- James


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

We have a pretty big main (22' foot, 48' luff) I can fully recommend the "Dutchman". I've never seen any lazyjacks system work as easily.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

jbarros said:


> I'm curious if the boat I crew on is in the minority. It's an older Gozzard, sailed by a gentleman whom is the model of a civilized sailor I wish to become. Everything is done with the right knot, every item on the boat has a place, and stays there, (unlike any other boat I've ever sailed on) and he makes that dog of a boat sail like it's a racer. He also has lazy jacks, so that he can "single hand" when his family feels more like riding on a sail boat than crewing. I can't imagine he'd do something untowards, but I have to ask about other peoples take on his setup.
> 
> On his boat, the Jacks stay forward, and are not connected to the boom at all, excepting right before he lowers sail. He'll lock off the wheel, go forward and connect the lazy jacks to the boom, and drop the sail. The sail then gets tied, and the sail cover goes on with the jacks still on.
> 
> ...


It sounds very clean, and seaman like. I bet he doesn't cuss at crew either . Maybe he can adopt me? .......*i2f*


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## DropTop (May 7, 2009)

When I bought my boat this past spring, it had a fixed lazy jack system on it that the main was always catching on when going up, and messing up sail shape. That only lasted a few weeks before I made a new set of lazy jacks.

I installed 2 Fairlead V-Cleats (one for port side, one for starboard side lazy jack) on the forward side of the mast. Up from those run the "lazy jack halyards" using 1/4" 3 strand line to blocks on the mast (I would have preferred the spreaders, but the blocks were already there from the previous set). The 3 strand gives a nice degree of stretch which is quite usefull in proper tensioning of the line.

After the line goes through the blocks it runs down to another block. 

Running through that block is a 3/16" braided low-stretch nylon line attached to the boom about a foot from the gooseneck on one end, and contains a block on the other end of it. 

The line that goes through that block (also 3/16") has both ends fixed to the boom about equal spacing down the boom (for larger sails, the first adjustable line would be duplicated as many times as necessary until only the final 2 points are fixed.)

The setup on the port side is an exact mirror of the starboard side

With this setup whenever I don't need them up, I release the line at the V-Cleat and pull the lazy jacks down and forward, and hook them under the reefing hook at the gooseneck (you can install a hook of some sort on the mast in front of the gooseneck if you don't have reefing hooks on each side). then I pull the line tight at the V-Cleat and secure it in. 

I've never had problems with raising or lowering sine adopting this setup, and it only takes seconds to put up or take down the lazy jacks, and everything is self adjusting with tension at the cleat so they don't hang slack when up or down. When I install a rigid vang next spring, I won't have to adjust anything on the lazy jacks either.

I think I spent less then $100 for everything involved, and it only took a few hours to complete. I'm VERY happy with the system as it is.

P.S. I tried to attach a little diagram but every time I try to attach a file to the post, it fails.


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## dbruce85 (Aug 17, 2007)

Here is a link for a DIY Lazy Jack system.
I only wish I had seen it a couple years ago when I had my mast down
DIY EZ-Jax


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I put my fixed end on the spreaders about 10 in out and the adjustable end on the boom. (a smaller boat than yours) I also used round sailmakers thimbles for the eyes that the lower legs go thru. You don't want a sharp edge there that could chafe the sails. I've only heard bad things about running the adjusting lined intreior to the boom.


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## starlightventure (Apr 26, 2009)

*Rope Trick*

Ok, but how do you make the fancy braided loops in the rope ends that the steel rings are in ?


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

starlightventure said:


> Ok, but how do you make the fancy braided loops in the rope ends that the steel rings are in ?


New England Ropes - Splicing Guide


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## osirissail (Oct 27, 2009)

dbruce85 said:


> Here is a link for a DIY Lazy Jack system.
> I only wish I had seen it a couple years ago when I had my mast down
> DIY EZ-Jax


- - It depends upon the length of your boom as to whether you need two, three or 4 lines terminating at the boom. You want enough "capture" lines at the boom to contain the sail on the boom and not allow it to fall between the lnes off the boom. 
- - I would suggest though that you substitute the littlest blocks from Schaeffer or others - for the "rings." As you sail and use the system the "rings" will chafe through the other lines. The little blocks will allow the lines to move as necessary without any chafing.


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## jmolan (Sep 5, 2009)

1/4" or 3/16" SK-75 (Dyneema, Spectra, Amsteel) is plenty slick enough you can eliminate the hard eyes or blocks in the lazy Jack system. Just a soft eye, made with a very simple double tuck brummell splice. It is one of the "soft solutions" that the super strong, super slick ropes can address.

I have just "built" a new topping lift from the same material. I used a new style eye for the block. Eliminate moving parts. This is the kind of tech. stuff that cruisers can use, most of it cam down through the race world.... 

I could not post photo's, so I attached them to the top URL below.


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## osirissail (Oct 27, 2009)

- - I built my lazy jack system from Home Depot 1/4" nylon line $5 plus Schaeffer blocks @$14 each. Depending upon how big your boom is you can use the 2, 3, or 4 lines system which meands 4, 6, or 8 blocks. The little Schaeffers and the line all added up to about $100 plus or minus 30 bucks. My system has been in active use in the Caribbean sun for 10 years and still works fine. The commercial kits sold in boat stores start around $200 and go up to about $450 for the really big systems. It was another $100 for cloth and zipper to make the "bag" system for covering the sail. Of course, I did all the work and sewing myself with saved about $1,000 or enough to buy a Sailrite sewing machine which then enabled me to sew up bimini, hatch covers, awnings, and dozens of other canvas projects saving me mega thousands of dollars. You will have to learn how to do the stuff, but Sailrite has excellent guide books and instructional videos or you can get a book or two to read up on how to do it.


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## firehoser75 (Nov 21, 2006)

*Lazy Jacks are Easy and they Work*

I have a simple lazy jack system on my boat. Just prior to raising the main, I slacken the lazy jacks and pull all of the legs forward to the mast where I "hook" them behind a cleat on the mast. I also take the slack out of the lines so that there is no slapping of loose lines on either the boom or mast. At that time I remove the sail ties as my wife starts to raise the sail. As soon as the last tie is off, I take over the "hard part" or finish raising to the top of the mast. 
In this way, the jacks are not in the way to ever catch a batten, and have NO effect on sail trim on any point of sail. 
Just prior to lowering the sail, I go forward to the mast to "reposition" and tighten the lazy jacks to catch the sail as it falls. After the sail ties are applied, I then put the sail cover on to protect the sail from the elements (read UV). The lazy jacks stay in place with the cover.
It does involve a (little) bit more work (tightening and loosening the lazy jacks), but it sure makes for easy sail handling (even in relatively big winds)!!

Hope this helps,
Tom


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## Maineac38 (Jul 14, 2009)

Sailing Dog!

Hey, dude! I read your description, on your blog, and I saw the drawing. Would it be imposing to ask you to post a couple of pix of the system? It would really help me out. Where are all the blocks? What size line? Does you main hang up on the jacks going up or downI''ve got a million questions. Sorry... Yours is a 238 ft boat. Ours is 38 ft. Does scaling it up create any unique challenges? Our main is big and hard to handle, even for two. And we've attempted flaking the main with several experienced sailors, on different events. I guess I'm looking for as much info as I can get. I dont' want to start drilling holes, untill I'm sure I've got it right.

Thanks, in advance, for any more advice you might offer.

Michael


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Mike-

When I get down to the boat this weekend, I'll take some photos of the setup. I'd point out that I only have TWO blocks, which are located on the mast, and that the lazyjacks themselves are using stainless steel rigging rings.

As for what size line... I think it is a 3/16" line... and the main sail doesn't hang up on it at all, since I retract the lazy jacks once the mainsail is furled. 

Scaling the system up isn't a big deal... the idea for mine came off a Cross 34 trimaran 20+ years ago.

Any other questions, let me know.



Maineac38 said:


> Sailing Dog!
> 
> Hey, dude! I read your description, on your blog, and I saw the drawing. Would it be imposing to ask you to post a couple of pix of the system? It would really help me out. Where are all the blocks? What size line? Does you main hang up on the jacks going up or downI''ve got a million questions. Sorry... Yours is a 238 ft boat. Ours is 38 ft. Does scaling it up create any unique challenges? Our main is big and hard to handle, even for two. And we've attempted flaking the main with several experienced sailors, on different events. I guess I'm looking for as much info as I can get. I dont' want to start drilling holes, untill I'm sure I've got it right.
> 
> ...


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

I bought the Harken system on sale for about $225 a couple of years back, and if I had to do it over again, I would make my own (although the Harken system works fine). It really isn't that complicated and you can use materials of your own choice.


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## starlightventure (Apr 26, 2009)

*Lazy Jacks*

Ok midlifesailor, 
thank you for your advise. I was thinking of just doing the loop rope trick with no hardware, other than the ones on the boom, and maybe ties on the mast. I have just downed two bottles of full sail amber bear and I would highly recommend that to anyone.


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