# Non Pressure Alcohol Oven



## atrometer (Apr 7, 2006)

Does anyone have any experience COOKING with a non pressurized alcohol oven??


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## fcsob (Apr 28, 2007)

I bought one a year ago & it works well.Simple & easy to use.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Yea. They do work well. Safer than a pressurized alcohol stove and simpler than a propane or CNG sytem. While it's probably not as hot as propane - it still cooks food and boils water. 

If you're living aboard or cruising extensively, you may find re-filling the fuel to be a laborious task. A task that should not be done in the galley, btw...


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Can someone explain the differences in alcohol stoves for me? One of the boats we're looking at has what I think is a pressurized alcohol stove.

I understand the hazards of propane, but don't know the issues with alcohol or why non-pressurized is considered less hazardous than pressurized and how risky either really is in relation to propane. It seems CNG has few drawbacks other than availablity, but none of the boats currently on our list to check out are equipped with CNG.

Are there any pro's to a pressurized alcohol? I'm thinking if we do end up buying this particular boat that we'd set about to convert it to propane if at all possible, but would want to use it this season as is and we have to cook on board since we always spend long weekends when we use our boat.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Midlife,

Check out this old thread for starters.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cost, availability, simplicity, BTUs figure into a complex process where the sailor determines what is best for his/her needs.

If you want to give me call at (215) 796-2285 I'll be glad to share with you what I have learned from reading a hundred posts, checking out this issue in detail, and talking with everyone I could find with an opinion...and...like everything in life..everyone has an opinion on this issue.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Origo is the way to go with non-pressurized alcohol stoves, although it would have to be a damn modest boat for me to want to use alcohol again as a fuel.

The hazards with alcohol involve the skills of the operator, primarily. It's a two-stage process of pre-heating the burner with a pool of alcohol in order that the alcohol in the burner ring itself becomes a flammable vapour, which is what you actually cook with. Kerosene and diesel require the same treatment, and unfamiliarity with the process can involve a dramatic, if rarely injurious, "flare-up".

Propane is LOGICALLY more dangerous, having the potential to collect undetected in the bilges, but has greater BTU ratings, meaning more heat energy potential. The best fuels is probably the rarest: compressed natural gas. It has all the upsides of propane in terms of convenience, but it is lighter than air itself and wants to leave the boat out the nearest hatch or vent if released in error.

For me, the solution ended up being a propane 1-lb. cylinder on a Coleman "camp stove" (you could use "camp fuel" in a pressurized tank...it's also known as naphtha or "white gas"). Basically, I put a plank with anti-skid across the cockpit and cook under the bimini. It's no big deal, even in the rain.

The new boat has a lovely Force 10 three-burner rangetop with oven (we haven't even used the oven yet), and while it's very nice, I really have to put in a dorade with a reversible fan above the galley, as my wife tends to let things smoke a bit.

A final option is a gimballed bulkhead mount single burner of the "Seacook" type.










A brief adventure in Googleland brought a blog that covers the topic quite well:

http://knockaboutsloops.blogspot.com/2007/12/cooking-lighting-and-heating.html


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

There is a significant difference between pressurized and non-pressurized alcohol stoves. Some of it is good and some is bad. On the good side, pressurized stoves produce more heat than non-pressurized. That is about it. On the bad side:
Pressurized stoves require a better quality alcohol which is more expensive,
They are fussy to light and difficult to clean (compared to non Pressurized),
They are more expensive and have lots of moving parts requiring maintenance.

Both kinds of stove are very safe. The often noted problem with alcohol is you can't see the flame and that can be an issue. The fuel is very volatile so spills evaporate quickly. It can be extinguished with water. The fuel is sometimes hard to find and the stoves burn a lot. The smell of the burnt alcohol is annoying to some.

I have a non-pressurized alcohol stove as a secondary stove on my Dickenson Pacific (diesel stove) equipped boat. It is useful for quick jobs like coffee or tea on hot days. I would not like to rely on it for any length of time while cruising because it is slow and burns too much fuel.

The Dickenson Pacific, now that's a stove, especially right now here in the PNW.

Gaz


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have used Origo Stoves for the past 20 years. I have also used Propane stoves before and during this period as well. I have also done a lot of research on this topic. The above posts include some erroneous informationn that I would like to clarify. I strongly believe that non-pressure alcohol is the way to go for coastal cruising in the US (and as I understand it, Europe) where alcohol is readily available and cheap. But more specifically....
<O
First of all on heat output. In looking at the published heat output of various stoves, an Origo type non-pressurized alcohol burner has approximately the same heat output as the standard propane burner. I say that because heat output for various propane burners vary with manufacturer between 10% less to 5% more than the Origo. That said, three and four burner propane stoves often have a single high output burner and that burner puts out 15% to 25% more heat than the Origo or Standard propane burner. <O</O
<O</O

As compared to a pressurized alcohol stove, non-pressurized alcohol burners do not need priming. You simply light them. The non-pressurized burners put out roughly 15-to 25% more heat than the pressurized burners (again depending on manufacturer.) 

<OI typically use less than a gallon of alcohol per season (including some use of the alcohol for cleaning parts and repair prep). I buy the alcohol at a normal hardware store $7 to $10 per gallon, which figures pretty competitively with the 11 lb propane tank that I would go through roughly each season. 

<OThere are tricks that make non-pressurized alcohol easier to use. I bought a ½ liter container at a camping store that is made to backpack white Gasoline. That bottle has a little pour spout that makes filling the burner very easy even when bouncing about. I use a long snout butane lighter like you would use to light a barbecue grill. 

<OI consider non-pressurized alcohol the only way to go from a safety standpoint. There seems to be a general sense that most on this forum would not feel safe with a boat that had a gasoline engine. Yet in my lifetime the only sailboats that I personally known that had explosions were diesel powered with propane stoves that had something go wrong. I have spent way too many hours trying to track down propane gas leaks to feel safe with them. Boats with gasoline engines have bilge blowers, explosion proof electrical systems, and standard operation procedures intended to prevent explosion. Few propane equipped boats have any of these. 

<OMuch is made of the fact that alcohol flames are less visible than propane stoves. In my experience the only time that you can't see the flame is when the sun is shining right down the burner. Otherwise, there is a flame spreader that is over the burner and the flame spreader casts a shadow that makes the bottom of the flame very easy to see. 

Respectfully,
<O
Jeff</O


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Jeff_H said:


> I have used Origo Stoves for the past 20 years. I have...


However, alcohol stoves produce more moisture content and therefore ventilation is a core issue... something to be aware of...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

In either case, be careful with alcohol, since the flames are close to invisible. 

One fairly common mistake is trying to re-fill the cans on an non-pressurized alcohol stove before the cans are fully cooled down... and that often results in a nasty fire. 

BTW, water is not a very good way to put out an alcohol fire, since if the water doesn't successfully douse the alcohol flames, it can cause them to pour down into the bilge and make the situation worse... This was reported in the BoatUS book, Seaworthy, as a common cause of galley fires. Also, if you look at the MSDS for denatured alcohol, it recommends using non-water fire extinguishers on alcohol fires.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Valiente said:


> Origo is the way to go with non-pressurized alcohol stoves, although it would have to be a damn modest boat for me to want to use alcohol again as a fuel.
> 
> The hazards with alcohol involve the skills of the operator, primarily. It's a two-stage process of pre-heating the burner with a pool of alcohol in order that the alcohol in the burner ring itself becomes a flammable vapour, which is what you actually cook with. Kerosene and diesel require the same treatment, and unfamiliarity with the process can involve a dramatic, if rarely injurious, "flare-up".
> 
> ...


Val,

I have an Origo stove and have no problems, I slide open the burner and set a match to it and it's burning. The oven is a little tougher because the base has to be swung out to lite.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I keep hearing that alcohol puts out more moisture than propane, but even in early or late winter cruising, I have not observed an abundance of humidity with the catalyzed alcohol burners on the Origo except of course when I am boiling water. I think that moisture may have been more of a problem with pressurized alcohol stoves since I do remember moisture and smell problems with the Kenyon and Homestrands of my youth. I still have an old Homestrand that I have used for cooking when the power has gone out. 

Jeff


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Propane is my preferred fuel, but I have to concede that it produces a fair bit of moisture as a byproduct of combustion. Generally not a problem for cooking, but as a heater fuel you want to be sure to exhaust it from the boat. In that respect at least I doubt there's any advantage over alcohol.

A quick search shows we've bludgeoned this topic more than a few times. Seems everyone has their respective bias for stove fuel, and for some reason the debate is joined anytime someone asks about alcohol stoves/ovens. Here are a couple more threads that might be worth perusing:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36107&highlight=alcohol+propane

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21807&highlight=alcohol+propane

If the boat you purchase has an alcohol stove, my advice would be to use it for a season or two and see how you like it. There will be plenty of other upgrades vying for your "boat units", so if you're comfortable with the alcohol stove you may just decide that converting to propane is not your highest priority.


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## SailMonkey (Feb 6, 2006)

Another thread on Alcohol Stoves? Well I've read it all, and cooked a lot with our pressure-alcohol stove (and oven). It came with the boat. Using it is not difficult, but you need to learn how. It's exactly the same principle as a backpacking stove that uses white-fuel.

It has other issues that make me want to replace it. What I really want to do is TRY out a Origo NP first hand. I'm just not sure how to get in front of one. Maybe a rep will be at _Strictly Sail Chicago_ and can give us a demo...?

The comment that I will never understand is that you 'cannot see' the flame. Eh? So I've included a photo taken of my 30 year old pressure-alcohol stove with a burner on medium flame. CAN YOU SEE IT?


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

SailMonkey said:


> CAN YOU SEE IT?


I don't see it.


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## SailMonkey (Feb 6, 2006)

I don't either! It was there, then it was gone.... ? 








can you see it now?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, you can see alcohol flames... but if the cabin is brightly lit, say by sunlight coming in the companionway, the flames will be very, very difficult to see, and often aren't detected until other things are burning from them.


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## atrometer (Apr 7, 2006)

No one seemed to mention the OVEN and temperature control???


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Oh. Fine point, OP. (blush). I have no experience with a NP alcohol *OVEN* at all. I'll be stepping out of this thread now.

I'll be over here if you need me!


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

We had a boat with an alcohol oven. It was very slow, had no tempo control but wasn't hot enough to burn anything anyway. Basically it was good for reheating stuff.

Gaz


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I must start by saying that I am a vegetarian and so I use the oven pretty rarely. Based on my experience the Origo oven is a mixed bag. 

It comes with a built-in thermometer and is pretty easy to regulate, but it is not self-regulating in the same way that a shoreside oven would be. In other words, you can't simply set a temperature and have the oven heat to that temperature and hold it. The procedure is to run the burner at full flame until the temperature approaches where you want it and then slowly turn down the heat until it holds steady where you want it. 

My sense is that Origo takes longer to preheat than a shoreside oven, but I am not sure how it compares to a propane oven, which I seem to recall is not all that fast to heat up either. 

Jeff


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

SailMonkey said:


> I don't either! It was there, then it was gone.... ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*YES, YES* I see the light.halaloha.


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## b135802 (Jan 21, 2009)

*good quality fuel availability?*

Hello!

I've used Origo's non preassurized alcohol hubs in Sweden, and cruicing the Baltic Sea, and my experiences are only positive - no hassels with tube connections, valves, etc (as with gas) and no smoke from the burner (as with kerosene).

Around here, a fuel called Origonol is available in most hardwear stores. Do anyone have the experiance of cruicing Caribbean, African, Polynesian or Asian waters - what kind of fuel is available? Can good quality alcoholic fuels be found everywhere?

Regards
Andreas


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