# Installing a Raymarine Wheelpilot (S-1 or X-5)



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

I and several other members recently ordered new Raymarine Wheelpilot's for our boats. Some folks got the S-1 unit at great close-out pricing from Sailnet, while others like me purchased the newer version (X-5).

The primary difference between the two units is that the newer X-5 has a feature called "Rate Gyro Sensor" that helps it anticipate the motion of the boat, without the need for a rudder position sensor. So the S-1 units have an additional installation step for the rudder position sensor.

I have not installed our Wheelpilot yet. It just arrived yesterday from the Sailnet store. And I likely won't get around to it until after spring commissioning.

But I invite anyone with installation experience, or that is in the process of installing one, to post tips, hints, etc, here in this thread so that we can all benefit from the collective experience.

Looking forward to spring!


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

ive got one also but will not install till the water gets soft


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

How did the installation go?

Do you know if it is possible to convert an S1 to an X5?
I think the main difference is the control head and the core pack?

edit: Actually mine is a mkII drive unit with rudder sensor but there is no core pack.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

matt2 said:


> How did the installation go?
> 
> Do you know if it is possible to convert an S1 to an X5?
> I think the main difference is the control head and the core pack?


Well,

I haven't completed much less begun the installation. It won't happen until sometime after spring commissioning. I was really hoping that someone who had completed the installation would post to this thread with useful tips before I tackle mine.

As for a conversion, my understanding is that you can swap an S-1 Corepack for an S-1G Corepack with Raymarine, which gets you the same rate-gyro stabilizer as X-5. Cost is uncertain, I was told "a few hiundred" by a Raymarine rep, but possibly as much as $400 (based on one report from another SailNet member.)


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## orientalnc2010 (Oct 4, 2007)

Hi John,
I just installed the S1 version on my 31, the rudder position indicator is a pain to install but with a bit of patience and some trial and error I got it done.
I did not have to build any sort of pad as the height of the sensor mounted upside down under the cockpit sole positions the rotating arm in the same plane as the tiller arm, this is not supposed to vary by more than 5%.
If you have rack and pinion steering be carefull when drilling the pedestal for the bracket that keeps the drive assembly stationary, the screws they send for this purpose are short enough so they do not hit the torque tube that is part of the rack. Also I have on a previous boat used the pedestal as the raceway for the motor cable, not so with rack and pinion. 
If you have single lever control it is on the starboard side of the ped, this is where the motor should sit in it's normal position, this is a problem. If you then attempt to rotate the motor to the port side of the ped and align the back of the drive ring slot with the stationary pin the motor sits too close to the compass and it goes crazy. ( Continued)


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## orientalnc2010 (Oct 4, 2007)

Continued
Solution was to make a new slot in the back of the drive ring to position the motor low on the port side away from the compass, seems to still cause the compass to deviate about 4 degrees. Drill two 3/8 holes and connect with a dremmel tool. I am thinking about adding some reinforcement around the new slot as the material is very thin.
Also if you have the S1 and mount the rudder indicator sensor upside down, as I did, then two wires will need to be swapped, looks like the blue and green but I still need to call Ray to verify.
The location of the smartpilot computer is interesting, I finally mounted mine in the wet locker and have fashioned a clear watertight cover for it. I tried the hanging locker put it just did not work out.
The electronic compass is under the port sette about 3 feet forward of the hot water heater, this was the closest to the centerline that I could position it.
If you have the S1 and decide to tie it into the seatalk bus and have a seperate feed for the other instruments (so you can use the WDS without the AP on) then you need to hook up the red wire for the seatalk at the computer terminals. Manual say not to but it is a typo. I don't know about the S1G.(built in gyro)
Other than that it's a piece of cake.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Steve,

These are just the sort of tips I was hoping to hear. Thanks!

I actually have the X-5 unit which lacks the rudder sensor. But it is good to know that you were able to mount yours without having to build a mount pad -- I had worried about that and so went with the newer X-5 package. Of course, we have a steering quadrant (wish we had your rack and pinion arrangement!) so we might not have been so lucky anyway.

Regarding the location of the corepack, I am curious as to why you were not able to install it in the hanging locker? Darn, that is where I had planned to put ours. 

In my case, I am actually replacing an existing (but defunct) ST4000 Wheelpilot. So most of the components are already in place (except the corepack, which didn't exist back then, it was all driven by the control head). We have dual-lever engine controls, and the existing motor is mounted on the starboard side of the pedestal. I'm hoping the new one will swap into that same place easily enough. But with my luck, there will be some surprises!

Thanks again!


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## negrini (Apr 2, 2008)

John, if you have the rudder sensor, keep it as you'll get an even beter response, and you'll also be able to see the angle on your display (good to check sails balance, for instance). Differently than the fluxgate sensor, in my experience, placing the corepack on a "motion prone" location will help your Gyro compute acceleration rates more efficiently, as those crystals will sense beter the motion allowing for yaw/axis correction.


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## orientalnc2010 (Oct 4, 2007)

JohnRPollard said:


> Steve,
> 
> These are just the sort of tips I was hoping to hear. Thanks!
> 
> ...


Hi John, 
I could have installed it in the hanging locker but IMHO it is too cramped, just trouble shooting the unit or even changing a fuse would be tough. The access in the wet locker is much easier and the cover solves the wet problem. There is no reason not to install it in the hanging locker other than that.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Seeing if any of the readers who bought the S-1 wheelpilot have made progress on the installation. Bought one and should get this week to start putting it in. Like everyone else looking for advice and hints. Thanks
Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I'd like to add something to this. S1G is the previous model that did include the rate gyro (it is essentially S1 with rate gyro functionality turned on). I have that core pack on my boat. 

Incidentally, from the documentation of S1G, though it is trying to be as foggy on the subject as possible, it really seems like it only uses rate gyro during the "learning" process but not in normal operation (I sure hope I am wrong on this, but thats what it seems like).


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I, too, am in the process of installing an S1, replacing a Raytheon ST4000+ whose drive ring more or less disintegrated.

Last night I installed the new drive ring, which btw looks a much more robust and better-engineered assembly than the old. Went very well, the holes you need to drill are well marked on the inside of the ring, make sure you chose holes with matched number pairs as best suits your spoke pattern. The ring self centers well esp when you "soap" the spokes as they suggest.

While attempting to drill the first hole on my cast aluminum rudder post arm (Edson link & lever steering) naturally the drill bit broke (bad working angle and medium access/long reach) so will have to try again tomorrow.

btw the only place the manual says not to connect the red Seatalk wire is if you're powering the Seatalk network from another source. If you've only got the ST6002 controller on Seatalk you must connect the red.

I was hoping that my old ST4000+ head unit would run the motor drive until I sorted out just how/where to mount the smartpilot and managed to get the rudder sensor in place (I will need a pad) but it did not seem to want to do that - strange, as I'd expect it's just another 12V drive and the old cable seemed to fit....

Since the new controller is a Seatalk device and the old was self contained, there's a fair bit of wire re-routing required now which involves pulling cables through the pedestal guard tubing - always fun.

So tomorrow's job is to prepare the steering sensor pad, and finalize the position of the smartpilot unit.(leaning toward high on a bulkhead at the foot of the aft berth) Debating on whether to re & re the flux gate.. nothing wrong with the old one.

The instruction set seems to be pretty complete, and I know from previous experience that the on-the-water setup is a bit time consuming, but hopefully all that goes well when the time comes.

From what I've seen so far this unit looks much better than the original ST4000.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

*S1 rudder indicator installation*

Hi all

Currently working on the boat to get ready to sail from Annapolis to Canada. Here is the "almost finished" mounting of the rudder indicator:

Autohelm Rudder indicator

Rik


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Wow -that's a lot of fabbing to make it come together. Making me wonder what I'm fixing to get into. Think this area must be the worst part. Once you get that the rest is tolerable. I'll found out next weekend when I get started... I'm sure I'll have a few questions.  
Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Looks pretty complicated. On my boat there was a mount for an old rudder angle indicator (for a previous Simrad autopilot). Essentially it was small round aluminum base with two welded tabs to bolt onto one of the rear berth wood support beams (it's right under a berth). The link itself went directly to the rudder "tiller arm" (same arm connects to the hydraulic ram). 

The new Raymarine indicator was slightly different so I had to drill a few holes in its base and also cut the arm down and reinstall the mounting ball. Still, the resulting construction is not so bad.

One thing I found useful is to remove the "return spring" from the indicator. For whatever reason Raymarine feels that the indicator needs to be hard on one side and difficult to move to the other  It puts a lot of pressure on the flimsy plastic ball caps they provide (and results in the indicator losing it's center occasionally). All it is is a metal U shaped spring under the rotating arm - pull it out and it moves freely and easily in both directions, removing any additional strain on the link. 

The old simrad indicator also had ball bearings inside, whereas the new Raymarine thing is just a plastic arm stuck directly on the axis of the potentiometer. 41 ohm left, 41 ohm right - all for a measly $300 MSRP


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The fluxgate compass does this need to be centerlined.....was thinking of mounting down low on one of the bilge dividers.....or better off on a bulkhead somewhere.....figured needs to stay away from metal and batteries.....the directions are clear as muddy water for the most part. Start playing with it this weekend to see what I can do. Wondering if the cabling will be way short....the corepack and a spot right below some drawers in the vberth in the center and low out of the way to put that. Wondering if it will make it to the back. Thanks
Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

thisisus said:


> The fluxgate compass does this need to be centerlined.....was thinking of mounting down low on one of the bilge dividers.....or better off on a bulkhead somewhere.....figured needs to stay away from metal and batteries.....the directions are clear as muddy water for the most part. Start playing with it this weekend to see what I can do. Wondering if the cabling will be way short....the corepack and a spot right below some drawers in the vberth in the center and low out of the way to put that. Wondering if it will make it to the back. Thanks
> Thisisus
> Islander 32
> Mobile AL


The compass does not need to be on the centerline.. I've seen it installed and working in a compartment below a settee well to starboard. It does need to be vertically oriented. Also the computer/smart pilot can be mounted anywhere, as long as it too is vertical. Try to space things so that your flux gate reaches the smartpilot no problem, and the seatalk line from the controller reaches the smartpilot too. The rudder sensor cables and quite long as well so a central location for the smartpilot should enable a reasonable arrangement of all the rest.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

okay who wants to sell their new uninstalled s1 for 700, so they can upgrade to the x5. right now there is a 100 rebate on the x5, total cost for the change if some one did it would be 400 or so


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

S1 installation and calibration complete. Went well, no glitches and I'm pleased with the overall installation.

I have 20 or so feet of flux gate cable, and about the same amount of rudder sensor cable, as well as the original complete drive cable left over if anyone needs any of this. Yours for the asking....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well got it about half done I guess. The drive mounting on the wheel went easy enough and adding the pin went well. When putting the power cable onto the drive motor the plastic piece on the back of the drive just broke off...almost like that plastic casting was bad....trying to decide what to do on that...send it back I know how that will go....6 months from now may get another....have to think through and see if a way to glue it back on.  Got the gyro mounted and most of the cables ran to the smart box. Mounted the keypad in the spot where I have a windspeed pad that does not work. Intend to come back later and add a bigger pod and mount everything on it. Naturally once you start redoing that I find a bunch of $%&*^ wiring from the PO, so took awhile to rethread everything through the pedestal. Now just have to get the power source to the brains and then tackle the infamous rudder indicator....scouted some spots while hanging upside down getting wires pulled. Directions that come with it, must be a bunch of idiots who never tried to follow them and install one. 

Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

I might be installing one of these in the new boat.

I see on the Raymarine website it says "No rudder reference sensor required", but I see you guys posting about installing rudder position indicators.

Does that mean to sensor to show rudder position because it's done mechanically?

Thanks in advance.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

sailak said:


> I might be installing one of these in the new boat.
> 
> I see on the Raymarine website it says "No rudder reference sensor required", but I see you guys posting about installing rudder position indicators.
> 
> ...


Dale,

If you go back to my introductory post for this thread, I mentioned the primary differences between these two Raymarine Wheelpilot models. But briefly, the latest Wheelpilot, called the X-5, no longer requires a rudder position sensor. The previous model, called the S-1, DOES require a rudder position sensor.

The older S-1 version is still available from inventory, and is being sold at close-out prices here at the SailNet store (and elsewhere). So in this thread we have hints and tips from folks installing both the older S-1 and newer X-5 units. Aside from the rudder position sensor, the installation is nearly identical.

Thanks to everyone that has been sharing their installation experiences. Faster, glad yours went well and thanks for those tips. I still haven't begun my installation but I am glad to read all the good advice here.


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## bacampbe (Mar 17, 2009)

Am I correct in understanding that the X-5 cannot show rudder position on the controller display? I suppose it could infer position without directly reading it, but I don't know how accurate that would be.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*S1 Rudder sensor*

Well I've been staring at this and looked at others photos of the rudder sensor mounting....I can't figure this out or has not registered yet in my brain. My quadrant is sitting more toward the starboard side when rudder is centered. So when sitting there do I try and mount it 90 degrees to the side of the quadrant? Do you take the sensor arm and pull it to center to start to give room to move either way. Just staring and moving it around it seems like may not be enough swing room. Maybe I'm missing the obvious. Rik's looks like he mounted on the metal brace running above it all and added a center bar to mount the end to.....may be thinking to hard on this . Last piece to the install to get done. Any hints/tips/help appreciated 
Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I had real trouble getting the sensor to center (and stay centered) while the spring was in place - it pulls it to one side, then when everything is "adjusted" - it pushes too hard and skews the sensor. In my experience taking the spring out of the sensor arm helped centering it.

In essence int has to be in the middle when your rudder is in the middle, and move left and right accordingly with your rudder. As long as you get it roughly there, you can adjust the length of connecting rod to get within about 5 degrees. Less than that can be adjusted from the autopilot control. If it is "upside down" - i.e. moves left when rudder goes right, you can simply swap outgoing wires to get the correct result.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

so just try to find a center point in the quadrant as a starting point and find a spot for the sensor roughly 90 degrees off that? How does the spring come out? thanks
Thisisus


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't think you have to connect to the center of the quadrant. You can connect to wherever is convenient. The only requirement is that when your rudder is centered - the sensor is centered, and that sensor arm moves as the quadrant moves. 

To get the spring out:
1) there is a pin (rolled thin metal tube really) that goes across the top of the head of the sensor, look for a small hole in it's side
2) push the pin out (use a nail or some such and push or knock on it - but carefully  )
3) once the pin is out, the arm/head will just come off - the spring is simply a piece of metal wire in U shape inside. 
4) Take it out, put the top back on the sensor and push the pin back in. 
If you decide at any point that the spring was good for anything - just reverse the process.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it....intend to go down Saturday and see what I can figure out. Let you know the outcome.

Thisisus
Mobile AL


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

brak said:


> I had real trouble getting the sensor to center (and stay centered) while the spring was in place - it pulls it to one side, then when everything is "adjusted" - it pushes too hard and skews the sensor. ....


Having just been through this, I have to think that if that little spring is "skewing" your sensor you have not installed it securely enough. The spring is there to eliminate/minimize backlash and lost motion from the connections between the quadrant/link/sensor arm.

With the rudder centered, your sensor should be set up so that the (centered) sensor arm is parallel to the imaginary line between your quadrant connection point and the center of the rudderpost. If necessary apply some tape to hold the sensor centered (there's an index mark on the casing and the arm) when you're aligning all of this. When centered ideally the link should be at 90 deg to both "arms".


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Faster said:


> Having just been through this, I have to think that if that little spring is "skewing" your sensor you have not installed it securely enough. The spring is there to eliminate/minimize backlash and lost motion from the connections between the quadrant/link/sensor arm.


I am sorry, but this does not make sense to me. If the sensor is securely connected to the quadrant through the ball/joint link, there is absolutely no way this spring can cause (or prevent) any motion of the sensor arm (because there is none, certainly no "backlash"). If you mean that there is a "backlash" of the rudder/steering quadrant - then I doubt the spring would help  . So no, I am quite sure that there can't be any reasonable use for this spring unless the link is not secure and there is play in the sensor arm somehow, which is exactly the opposite of what you suggested.

The fact is - other sensors, such as my previous Simrad sensor, have no spring and work just as well (better, actually, because Simrad sensor has metal arm and ball bearings that support it rather than a plastic arm simply stuck on top of the potentiometer. Unfortunately, Simrad sensor has a different resistance range and can't be used unmodified with Raymarine autopilot).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well I got the rudder sensor on today and everything works in the slip....next to sea trial and calibrate....the sensor required some creative engineering to say the least....will upload some photos of the finished product when I get a chance. Had to swap the wires out as it was reading backwards though it was not mounted upside down...makes a difference I guess if mounting on port or starboard sides...ended up mounting a wood plate in the quadrant and adding a bracket to that to take the rod. Mounted the sensor to the metal cable bracket. Downside crawling into the small space to work my knee hit a hose clamp with the end sticking out. May have to go have it stiched tomorrow if the butterflys don't work....watch out for those little odds and ends under there. :laugher 
Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

*S-1 Autopilot Rudder Sensor Install finally*

I also purchased an S-1 Wheel Autopilot last fall (at a discount) and I am just getting around to putting it in. I have spent a lot of time thinking about how to mount the rudder sensor(thats one excuse), as this seems to be the most difficult task of the installation. My 35' Holby Marine Clearwater has a swing keel and a lifting rudder. The rudder lifting mechanism is in a well behind the transom and access to the rudder quadrant is thru the aft Lazarette.









the first ugly task is to empty the Lazarrette!









The rudder arm comes thru the transom surrounded by a rubber boot. Attached to the rudder arm are the quadrants with cables that run thru a pulley system up to the wheel.










I felt drilling and tapping into the rudder arm was not a good idea due to difficult access and also because the sensor attach point needs to lie too close to the boot, as the rudder sensor has limited travel, so I could not move the attach point forward. The rudder pivot point is already nearly 2" on the outer side of the transom and the ideal attach point is only 5.5" forward of there. So I fabricated an adapter that would provide several functions.










There is a main section that is used to clamp the adapter to the rudder arm, an offset section where the rudder sensor attach pivot is mounted (to help get around the rubber boot) and a rubber boot deflector that would keep the boot off of the sensor attach arm.

The next ugly task was to shimmy down into the Lazzarette to attach the adapter to the rudder arm. I invited the Admiral to try the task, but she declined and offered only moral support in case I got stuck.

The actual sensor unit I mounted on a shelf off of the port bulkhead that separates the usefull part of the Lazzarette from the rudder quandrants.

After a couple of adjustments (fortunately I cut the rod too long instead of too short!) all seems to have come out ok. Here is the sensor attached to the rudder arm with rudder full over to Port.










Note the boot is held at bay by the angled part of the adapter.

Here with the rudder at midpoint.










And with the rudder to Starboard:










I did not remove the return spring in the rudder sensor body. I was concerned that the I would not be able to reinsert the pin that holds the head of the sensor on to the body, as it seems short and internal with no easy access. It was a pain working with the rudder sensor with the spring, but managable.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Capnron,

That is some fine handiwork. Clever idea and very nice machining of the adapter.


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

*S-1 Autopilot Install*

Thanks,
I went thru several iterations on paper and cardboard, trying to figure out a simple but effective solution. This seemed to be the best as much of the work was done in a workshop, not down in the lazzarette! 
(I'd like to say I did it all with just a file, but in truth I used a hacksaw, drill, hammer and vice as well)

I continued the installation today by mounting the rate gyro. My instrument rate gyro is in the hanging locker (B&G electronics), but that is too far forward for the cable to reach back to where I want to mount the computer box (back top side of aft quarter berth). So I mounted this rate gyro to a bulkhead in the bottom of a pocket behind the salon seat cushions where we normal store soft items like paper towels and storage bags. It is about a foot above the waterline at midship and about 4 feet off the centerline. The installation instructions are pretty sketchy in terms of what is important for its location. Just avoid far aft and forward and any magnetic interference. I am hoping this location will work and welcome any suggestions regarding its location.

I would like to say I am getting close to being done, but I have to go back to work and it will be a few weeks before I get back to the boat again.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi All
Looking for some clues/ideas of what I'm doing wrong.....took a week off and was looking forward to playing with my new autopilot. Did all the setups at the dock as the manual says. Took it out and did the circle dance for the compass and it calibrated fine (3 degrees variance) and adjusted as the manual says. Now go running in a straight line with the autopilot turned on and runs in a line for about 30-45 seconds and then just turns hard to port sometimes or hard to starboard sometimes. When it jumps over the drive keeps trying to turn. I had set the rudder like it said to 5 degrees less than what the unit display showed. I've gone through and reset everything twice to no avail. The rudder damper I believe it shows about hunting (book is on the boat) I adjusted up and down the line and same results. If you start running and just try to go up or down 1 degree on the key pads dont get a response. The +/- 10 does after a few seconds. Both worked sitting at the dock when I first tried. Wondering any answers or ideas before I break down and ask Raymarine. Just hoping something simple....would have come in handy after motoring home in a dead calm yesterday for 7 hours....any ideas appreciated 

Thisisus
Islander 32
Mobile AL


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The behaviour sounds like the motor drive leads are reversed.. this creates a positive feedback situation, and will not occur until the pilot actually makes it's first real correction. Kinda fits with your symptoms... IIRC the instructions do say not to worry about the polarity until you've proved this part out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks Faster - after you said that went reading back the manuals and do see a place where mentions that same solution. Probably be the weekend before I get a chance to try that out. Let you know how it goes. Appreciate the feedback

Thisisus
Mobile AL


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

thisisus did u get her running corectly,i have the same problem,let me know how u made out


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks Faster - went down this weekend and tried reversing the motor drive and worked fine. Took her out and played with it and ended up adjusting the trim a little and she settled down and did fine. Not sure why that would occur. Checked my original wires and they appeared correct....but hey it works now. So give it a shot and see what happens. I'll probably have to fine tune it to the boat a bit but so far so good:laugher 
Thisisus
Islander 32 
Mobile AL


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

thisisus, thanks for the info.after you switched the leeds did you go ahead with the sea trial learn function ? thanks ray


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

Has anyone got a new SpX-5 working yet? How is it??

Thinking about buying one in next week or so.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

thisisus said:


> Thanks Faster - went down this weekend and tried reversing the motor drive and worked fine. Not sure why that would occur. Checked my original wires and they appeared correct....but hey it works now.


The reason it behaves that way is that if the motor turns the wrong way for your setup then the "correction" makes things worse, so it "corrects" again, worse still, and so on. A classic sign of incorrect control action is for the unit to "peg" to one extreme or the other. This applies to any control scheme be it an autopilot or an industrial controller for automation.

You should be fine now once you set your gain and response levels correctly for your boat - keep in mind you may want to adjust your rudder gain to different numbers if you're motoring in calm vs sailing in a bit of lump.


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## PAUL06 (Jun 21, 2009)

Looking to purchase an X-5. can anyone tell me what the drive wheel diameter is. Thanks.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Right down to the wire for our leaving on our pending trip to Mystic and Block Island and points along the LI Sound I finished the last of my projects this year and installed the new X-M autopilot. 

Installation was easy and very straightforward. And guess what...it even worked correctly the first time. That is a first, No muttering..no cursing...nothing but smiles.

Calibrated it at the dock and will do the circle dance the next time out.

Dave


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## eckpet (Nov 9, 2006)

I have now installed and finally got working an X5 wheel pilot for my 33ft Gladiateur. 
While the install was indeed easy and straightforward (although the wiring runs are a laborious slog for me) I was having no luck in getting the unit to work properly.
I spent over 60mins total waiting on the phone for tech support and got nowhere. It was only when I tried for the fourth time but instead went through the operator and complained that I was able to speak to someone after 10 minutes (!).
You should know that the autopilot team are (seemingly) overwhelmed at the moment...
I explained my problem - boat failing the autolearn, and bizzare turns on auto. The tech support guy tells me I have the motor wires around the wrong way. I tell him that I had double-checked at install and checked a third time as I tried to troubleshoot by myself.
Then he tells me that they never know which way the coil is wound and the installation guide only has a fifty per cent chance of being correct!!
So if you're reading this and saying "hey that's the problem I was having" then just swap the motor cables even if you know that they conform to spec... 

I'm pleased to report that the unit is now working, and is performing very well. My boat is 11,000 pounds, and probably 13,500 laden. Today was a strong wind day (20+ knots, double reef etc) with a strong swell and whitecaps brought on by wind and tide.
The X5 held her very nicely and tracked well. I have more to do in fine tuning, but am very pleased so far.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

I finished my installation a couple weeks ago. No problems encountered other than needing to swap the wires to the drive motor as others have had to do. They should probably just make them the same color....ya got a 50% chance of getting it right. <G>


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

*S-1 Wheel Pilot*

I also found I had to reverse the motor wires, even though I had originally connected them as the installation manual indicated. I am making progress, but slowly as we only get down to the boat every couple of months.










I removed the wheel (what I thought would be scary was not so bad a little release agent on the lock nut and it all slid right off - thank you PO for good maintenance) and mounted the wheel pilot, all went without a hitch.

I did a temporary wiring and fired up the system for a dock check and initial setup. That all went well with the noted exception of having to reverse the motor wires. This was obvious as the wheel turned the wrong way from the indication on the controller. My rudder sensor seems to be working fine as the setup adjustment was only 2 bars (9 allowed).

I plan to mount the control unit in the vacant pod on the left side of the pedistal, previously it only held the mike for the radio. I still need to route the wires down thru the pedistal and I have to figure out how to keep them from interferring with the steering chain. I think I will look for some tubing to contain the new wires, all the previous wires are tied off and I am not sure I can access them without removing the pedistal and I would rather not do that.

Hopefully I will get to this next trip and be able to do the next steps in the autopilot installation.


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## billsull (Jul 8, 2007)

I spent my summer vacation installing an X-5 wheelpilot (among other things). My Allied Seawind 30 has a rack and pinion steering system. Raymarine makes a bulkhead mount kit for those without a pedastal but it wasn't designed for my particular situation with a reversed wheel on the end of a 12" shaft. I ended up fabricating an extension to support the pedastal bracket using 1" stainless tubing, some rail fittings and a piece of starboard. I used the pin that comes with the bulkhead mount kit because it has a flat base. I don't think I can post inline pics yet, but I have some photos out on picasaweb: Picasa Web Albums - billsull - Patience - 20...


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## Mandelbrot (Jul 15, 2009)

I installed the wheel x5 this spring. Had the same problem with reversed wiring to the motor. Everything else went well. The unit works well under motor, sail or motor sailing. We've sailed for 4 hours without any adjustments.

However when crossing Lake Ontario a few weeks back, the autopilot decided to turn the boat around. Now it can't keep its heading. I've re-calibrated the unit, checked all the wiring and even moved the fluxgate compass. Same problem.

I am waiting on the Canadian Raymarine dealer to get back to me. I think I must have a faulty fluxgate compass or course computer.

Update - The Raymarine distributor (CMC Electronics) updated the course computer software and had me do a system reset. The compass still won't calibrate. We are now trying a new course computer. The distributor has been good to deal with.

Update July 26, 2009 - I installed the new course computer and 2.5 circles of the sailboat, the compass recalibrate with a deviation of 2 degrees. Everything works as advertised. Of interest, I had to reverse the motor control wires, which put them back to their original state. My sense is that Raymarine knew they had a bad batch of cards. They replaced my computer without question. I would recommend the X5 over the older S1 since you don't have to install a rudder sensor.


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## HIPAR (Sep 8, 2006)

I just installed my X5. Had a devil of a time with the individual tasks .. pulling cables, drilling through stainless steel, cutting the 3.5 inch hole for the control panel, wiring to the distribution panel ... The standing joke is if I charged myself the boat yard hourly rate it would be a million dollar job. 

Others who use X5s insisted that I was being to critical. My dock neighbor mentioned that I wasn't going to the moon with that thing.

I had no problem swinging the compass and setting the heading but, like many here, the boat tuned into a circle when I went to auto mode. Switching the motor wires immediately solved the problem with excellent steering. Autolearn took about eight steps to pass. Somehow, I think it worked better before autolearn calibration.

There's a plastic cap on the end of the drive motor where the power connector is mounted. It fell off. I tried to put it back on but it keeps slipping off .. the flange that goes into the tube doesn't seem to be long enough to hold it on and the O-Ring forces it off so I used electrical tape to hold it in place. None of the other X5 owners have this problem.

I don't have much experience using my X5 but have no reason to believe that it will not serve well.

--- CaptChas


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Finishing S-1 Autopilot install*

It is almost complete. All I have to do is decide do I want to cut the network wires to length or just bundle them up.

Last trip to the boat (in July) I mounted the wheel controls and temporally wired everything up to see that it all turns on and works.

This trip I ran the wires thru the wheel pedestal down to where I will mount the controller. I ran the wires thru an old piece of plastic hose so the wires would not get caught in the steering chain (there did not seem a way to tie them to the existing wires without removing the pedestal so this seemed sufficient).

I mounted the computer at the upper end of the Aft port berth.










The wires are still in disarray as stated (the last thing to deal with). The wire on the right side comes from the compass that I mounted outboard in the salon area. The other wires come down from the wheel, thru the binnacle, into the engine compartment and then back up to the controller. I also have to reroute the wire from the rudder sensor which currently comes in thru the aft port.










I epoxied (3M 5200) a narrow piece of marine plywood to the inside of the berth topsides (other side of cockpit topsides) and screwed the computer to this. It should be out of the way and dry there but easily accessible if you crawl in head first.

I mounted the Autopilot control box at the wheel in the port side Edson Pod (it used to hold the mike for the radio, so it was underused, but I do have to find a spot for the mike now).










The computer power line runs back to the main panel, where there happened to be a spare circuit breaker (don't know what I will do for the next need). I guess I could eventually wire this into the instruments breaker, but for testing purposes I will use the spare for now. Once the autopilot is powered on the least power usage mode is standby, I am not sure if you can turn it off from the controller, yet?

The one last connection (which I think is important) is the RF ground from the computer to a good solid ground. I used #14 size braided wire ( so that the circumference is around 4 mm as stated in the manual) and ran it directly to a negative terminal on the battery bank. I originally did not have this connected and I noticed some strangeness with my other instruments, so I hooked this up before the sea trial.

The dock and sea trial all went smoothly and the autopilot works, but I need to tune the parameters. I may present more on this in another thread on my first Solo Sail.

cheers


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

CapnRon47 said:


> I mounted the computer at the upper end of the Aft port berth.


Huh..exactly where I mounted ours too...



CapnRon47 said:


> ....., I am not sure if you can turn it off from the controller, yet?


... press and hold the upper left (disp) button several seconds until it turns off. Not sure, though, if that actually powers down the course computer, or just the controller. I'd guess the latter.

btw - all of you saying you "installed the motor wires according...." and then had to swap wires to make it work, the instructions say that polarity is not important and is determined later during calibration and setup.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

JohnRPollard said:


> Dale,
> 
> If you go back to my introductory post for this thread, I mentioned the primary differences between these two Raymarine Wheelpilot models. But briefly, the latest Wheelpilot, called the X-5, no longer requires a rudder position sensor. The previous model, called the S-1, DOES require a rudder position sensor.


I installed a ST4000+ MkII and the rudder sensor would have been a major pain so I skipped it. I had called RM and a tech told it would work OK without it. I tracks very well in compass mode and wind mode (ST60 instruments with seatalk) After about 30 minutes it will start to wander and overcorrect without the mizzen up.. However, if I balance the helm with the mizzen before I engage, it works really well. Maybe would be better with the RS, but I never leave it unattended anyway. We call it "lunch mode."

The ST4000 was rated at max 18k lbs laden. The max rate on the X-5 is lower at 16.5k lbs. I am about 21k lbs laden. Next time I'll get the X-10 (saving now).


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## expossum (Jul 1, 2009)

*smartpilot x5*

orientalnc 2010
Am in the process of installing a Smartpilot x 5. Hit a problem in that the clutch lever hits the engine instrument panel/box of my Catalina 31. Whilst others being confronted with the same problem have lowered the instrument box I thought I could take a shortcut by just adding another slot (which accommodates the bracket that keeps the motor stationary) in the drive ring about 2" port of the one provided by Raymarine. The latter have not answered my query re this as yet (due to current holidays) and I was pleasantly surprised to see your post stating that you apparently had done so.

Could you please let me know if this had no 'ill effects' you know of? Would very much appreciate it.

Albanach
Australia


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## sarabee (Jun 5, 2007)

I am baffled by all the different Raytheon/Raymarine Wheel Pilot Systems. I have an old AH4000 that is failing, and I am wondering about all the "newer" Wheel Pilot systems out there. In any of these, is the actual "Motor" more powerful than the older models? My boat is a 1973 Tartan 41, which weighs in at 17,850. I want to make sure the next model I get (AH4000ST, 4000MK2, S1, SX?????) is robust enough for my big girl. Or should I be going with a linear drive unit?

Thanks guys!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sarabee—

All of the Raymarine WHEELPILOTS use the same wheel drive, and it is a badly engineered POS IMHO.

For your boat, I would recommend an under-deck autopilot with a linear drive that will be more reliable and better able to handle the loads your boat can generate.


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## scraph (Oct 19, 2009)

redcobra said:


> However, if I balance the helm with the mizzen before I engage, it works really well. Maybe would be better with the RS, but I never leave it unattended anyway.


Not to be a smart-a** but it is generally good sailing practice to balance the boat with sails. It is especially recommended to balance the sails best you can when operating on autopilot. Even if autopilot can compensate with the rudder for poor sail balance ... it will require substantially more wattage to do so.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

expossum said:


> orientalnc 2010
> Am in the process of installing a Smartpilot x 5. Hit a problem in that the clutch lever hits the engine instrument panel/box of my Catalina 31. Whilst others being confronted with the same problem have lowered the instrument box I thought I could take a shortcut by just adding another slot (which accommodates the bracket that keeps the motor stationary) in the drive ring about 2" port of the one provided by Raymarine. The latter have not answered my query re this as yet (due to current holidays) and I was pleasantly surprised to see your post stating that you apparently had done so.
> 
> Could you please let me know if this had no 'ill effects' you know of? Would very much appreciate it.
> ...


Roll the clutch to the opposite side..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> Sarabee-
> 
> All of the Raymarine WHEELPILOTS use the same wheel drive, and it is a badly engineered POS IMHO.
> 
> For your boat, I would recommend an under-deck autopilot with a linear drive that will be more reliable and better able to handle the loads your boat can generate.


Jeez I probably have a combined 10K+ NM on RM wheel pilots and have never once had a failure. Had them on a C-30, C-310, C-36 and my current CS-36. I think much of the troubles are due to a failure to read the installation instructions, improper alignment, improper set up of the course computer and, god forbid, balance the sail trim... 

Our current boat is over 2k more displacement than the unit can supposedly handle and she has nearly 3k mi and again no signs of failure what so ever. Dial them in, balance your sail trim and they work quite well for what they are. Mine was temporary on this boat but until I kill it a below deck drive will have to wait. Honestly thought it would be dead by year two... Still going.......

The WP can tide you over until you can do the below deck unit. The course computer and control head are the same. If you kill the wheel drive portion, which is nearly free if you buy the kit, just buy the below deck unit at that point. If you are going new though, on a Ericson 41, a below deck unit makes sense especially if you are killing the older models. The new models are slightly more robust but not by much.

I installed a ST 4000+ MK II nearly 8 years ago on a Sabre 362 with the plan that when the boat was hauled we would do the glass work needed to install the below deck portion. It is still going strong as of last week when I sailed on her and used it. For a boat within their realm they do okay for an in-expensive piece of gear.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Had Raymarine out to boat yesterday to quote for supply and installation.

Now...our log has long gone to god and our depth sounder is a bit flakey so I'm thinking to junk them both and replace with a Raymarine ST60 TriData. 

Old gear is ancient Navico that is fully surface mountable but the Raymarine gear needs to be partly (at least) recessed. Ergo I need to fit some kind of box. What have any of you lot done ? Pics would be good...he said hopefully...

Any other suggestions gratefully received.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

In installing an X5 the instructions say to mount controller "min 0.8m (2'6")" from compass. 

Presuming most would mount controller on steering binnacle and have compass there also, what gives ?


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## bacampbe (Mar 17, 2009)

tdw said:


> In installing an X5 the instructions say to mount controller "min 0.8m (2'6")" from compass.
> 
> Presuming most would mount controller on steering binnacle and have compass there also, what gives ?


With my S-1 controller, C80, and wind instruments on the binnacle, the binnacle compass is useless. I've been meaning to see of there is a way to recalibrate it. I really wish these companies wouuld think more about magnetic shielding.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I must confess that I use our GPS compass more than the main magnetic though I fully intend to have the main compass re swung once this install is complete.


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## douwefokkema (Jan 25, 2011)

I have installed the X-5 a year ago and I am really disappointed about the performance on waves. Through the gyro sensor the unit reacts heavily on rolling of the yacht, resulting in a pumping motion of the rudder. See video (comparison with old Navico / Simrad) . For video see YouTube - Raymarine X-5 vs Navico TP30 Comparison watch?v=czikxpzYjVI (sorry, not allowed to post a url)


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