# Those little green Coleman propane bottles



## Edo Kazumichi (Apr 7, 2006)

I've got a Magma grill and an "offshore stove" both of which use those little green Coleman propane bottles. My questions:

1. Can these bottles be refilled or do you just pitch them when they're empty?

2. Are they widely available worldwide?

3. Couldn't a person plumb a line from the regular, refillable bottles into these two and thereby cut out the need for the little bottles?

4. Someone suggested to me the possibility of getting one of those grills that sit on top of the stove. Anyone have any experience with these?

5. The "offshore stove" is just a single burner with a two-axis gimbal. Do I really need such a thing? Isn't the galley stove sufficient for cooking underway?

Many thanks ahead of time!


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Edo Kazumichi said:


> I've got a Magma grill and an "offshore stove" both of which use those little green Coleman propane bottles. My questions:
> 
> 1. Can these bottles be refilled or do you just pitch them when they're empty? No, I think some places recycle them.
> 
> ...


Stupid site code, doesn't read my quote inserts and tells me the message is too short, go figure.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Edo, there are converters you can buy. Check hardware stores and BBQ sites online instead of marine stores. I was looking at them a while back, but don't remember the specifics. I believe they were around $100 or less.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Converter hose assembly - $18.97 from Amazon . . .


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Bingo! Thats right around $100, give or take.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Propane bottle refille kit.*

HarborFreight.com has the refill kits, Item # 45989-5RYA $19.99 I have one but have not used it yet, others that I have talked to say that they work great, hope this helps.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Personally, I wouldn't trust the notoriously leaky valves of disposable 14 & 16 oz propane bottles in the galley, let alone refilling them. That's not only illegal, but just begging for a disaster to happen.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Leaky valves?*

I have used them for years and have not had a leak. I remove the tank when Iam done with the stove. What about the buddy heaters that so many people use? I wounder if they leak? Campers have used them for years.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

My experience jft, differs greatly. We had a double 10lb cylinder propane locker on our last boat, but used the disp. bottles for the stern rail-mounted Magma - since the propane locker was midships and usually too much hassle to connect the hose.

We also removed the small bottles after each use. But the occasional unit developed a leak - not enough to make a loud hiss, but if placed close to your ear, there was a slight hisss. Our slipmate, who we cruised with regularly, kept his bottle attached to the Magma - said it's safer keeping the leaky bottles in open air than in his vented lazerette.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

As a clarification to post #7, in case you misconstrued my point, it is illegal to use ANY propane cylinder indoors - that includes the galley of a boat and a camper.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A lot of folks use the propane bottles without incident. And refill them, without incident. And use the converter hoses, again without incident.

However, as tblue notes the use of them may be illegal and this is because those throw-away bottles are uninspected, so they can rust out without your realizing it. Or, the little rubber ball (that's all it is) that seals the neck can misfit or leak. In both cases, you can wind up with an explosion. The fact that most folks get away with it "forever" doesn't mean it is safe. After all, the propane/natural gas industry tells you those are safe fuels--but a number of homes and businesses get in the news in the US every year when they blow up from gas leaks, one way or another. 

IF you choose to use them, you MUST either know that the gods love you, or treat them as potential bombs at all times. By all means use them, then shut, disconnect, secure, and stow them on the rail or someplace where they can't leak into the boat. A friend of mine was stowing a dozen of them on a 42' boat some time ago, for lantern fuel and other uses, and the propane sniffer in the bilge would go off at least twice a day--with no trace of a leak "sniffable" to either of us. But something was still leaking.

The other cheap stove that some boaters use (with the same dangers) for occassional cooking is the butane stove sold in most oriental supermarkets and now some flea markets, about $20 for one burner in a box/case, uses a can (8oz? 12?) of butane than snaps and locks in. Cheaper and smaller than the propane rigs, not as hot and a little more expensive but if you only need it once in a while, i.e. to boil one pot for dinner and one pot for the kettle...That also works if you remember that fuel is, after all, designed to explode.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

We kept a stash of the "greenies" in our regular propane locker in zip lock bags to prevent corrosion. Unlike CD...we did not use them quickly and I often found empty bottles when it cam time to use one. I would never trust them indoors. 
I can't speak for world wide...but then neither is propane...or US propane fittings.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> My experience jft, differs greatly. We had a double 10lb cylinder propane locker on our last boat, but used the disp. bottles for the stern rail-mounted Magma - since the propane locker was midships and usually too much hassle to connect the hose.
> 
> We also removed the small bottles after each use. But the occasional unit developed a leak - not enough to make a loud hiss, but if placed close to your ear, there was a slight hisss. Our slipmate, who we cruised with regularly, kept his bottle attached to the Magma - said it's safer keeping the leaky bottles in open air than in his vented lazerette.


This is my approach: green Colemans on the stern rail Magma barbeque, and 20 lb. propane on deck feeding the Force 10 in the galley.

If we are going down the lake, I secure the bottle with shock cord. If the weather pipes up, I remove the bottle and put it in the footwell cockpit, as this has two 3-inch pipe scuppers going aft to the stern. If the weather is REALLY heavy, I remove the Magma off the rail.

The Colemans provide about 6-8 barbeque dinners, which is more than we typically have in a season. Running a separate line from the main propane tank would be awkward and potentially hazardous...it's really not worth it.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmm...I just realized that the bulkhead mounted "coffee cookers" use those propane bottles. Wouldn't they technically be illegal mounted inside a boat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

No, I wouldn't re-fill them... that's probably not too safe. 

No, you probably can't get them that easily outside of the USA.

Yes, you can get a low pressure adapter for the stoves or grills in many cases. 

I've used some of the "stovetop grills" and they're not bad...but they tend to fairly smokey and you're probably better off grilling outside the boat, rather than having the greasy smoke inside the boat. 

Yes, you probably do need to get a marine stove if you're planning on making any longer passages, where you might have to cook under sail. If you don't have a gimbaled stove, cooking can become very dangerous.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I'll second TrueBlue's experience with propane bottles leaking, particularly if removed from the appliance being used immediately after use or in cold weather. The neck on the bottle cools as the gas leaves and expands, which is the only explanation I have that correlates with my winter-time experience with the bottles always leaking. I use mine on a torch tip and so I leave it attached until the bottle warms up and then I seem to be able to get the seal to seat. I'd leave them attached to something with a more positive shut-off valve, like a grill, just to be safe. I'd also follow TB's advise of placing the bottle up to your ear to check for leaking; sometimes it's just the tiniest of hissing you'll hear.


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

I've been wanting to order the Magma gas bbq but is not sure the type of bottled gas it uses. Not much description about this. Where I live (Singapore) we do have small camping gas bottles (BLUE not green). Maybe its propane, may be butane. But di I suppose this camping gas bottle works for the Magma BBQ ?


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Lyn W. on this forum is British and has dealt with a variety of international gas fittings and types. Perhaps she can comment.


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## minggat (Jun 15, 2002)

Yes, many people reuse the disposable bottles. I made my own refiller device. Never used it, but I got it. The Harbor Freight one is a fair deal. I saw them advertised years ago someplace else for $14. I would have to agree about keeping the disposables and their hoses outside.


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## Detector (May 11, 2008)

*Minggat please reply off list*

Don,
Please email me off list mkelley2 AT adelphia dot net
Mike
Island Time
Island Packet 40
Los Angeles Harbor


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Sailaway's mention of a torch, and my "Oh duh!" recollection that I have a torch bottle to worry about as well, makes me wonder why no one sells a simple positive brass cap to screw onto the bottle as a security fitting?

Just a piece of (non-sparking!) bronze or brass rod, with the 1" female threads tapped into it, and a rubber sheet inside, so it could be screwed onto a gas bottle as a (reusable) "gas tight" cap. The same way that Schraeder valves use caps, and AC fill ports use caps, to make sure the valve isn't leaking.

Nice cottage industry for someone with a lathe...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, most propane devices can use butane and vice versa with little trouble. The main problem is if you have a CNG device, since CNG has very different characteristics from LPG, Propane or Butane. Be aware that LPG is often a mix of propane and butane.


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## Edo Kazumichi (Apr 7, 2006)

Wow. I had no idea that little green bottles were such a popular topic. Many thanks to all of you. I've decided that they're more trouble then they are worth .

Thanks!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you are an occasional sailor, Coleman disposable bottles provide 6-8 barby meals. Remember the word disposable! And keep 'em outside the boat, either stored in a proper vented propane locker or on the rail attached to the grill. If you live aboard or manage to spend a LOT of time on the boat, the short hose adapter TB showed above can be attached to a 5 or 10 pound refillable bottle, with a good shutoff valve, available in the gas grill section of your home center store (like Home Depot or Lowe's.) (I got mine from Bass Pro Shop) This smaller bottle can then be suspended from the rail in a canvas bag. Saves the need to run a gas line from a midship propane locker! One can also get an aluminum propane bottle, 5 lb capacity, from West Marine for only about 6 times what my painted steel 5 pounder cost! And since the propane refillers insist that the tank is only good for 10 years before inspection and re-certification, if the steel one lasts 3 years you're money ahead!


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

RAGTIMEDON said:


> If you live aboard or manage to spend a LOT of time on the boat, the short hose adapter TB showed above can be attached to a 5 or 10 pound refillable bottle,


Insignificant nit-pick point, but the 2 standard, refillable propane cylinder size options are, 10 lb & 20 lb, not 5 lb & 10 lb.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

RAGTIMEDON said:


> If you are an occasional sailor, Coleman disposable bottles provide 6-8 barby meals. Remember the word disposable! And keep 'em outside the boat, either stored in a proper vented propane locker or on the rail attached to the grill. If you live aboard or manage to spend a LOT of time on the boat, the short hose adapter TB showed above can be attached to a 5 or 10 pound refillable bottle, with a good shutoff valve, available in the gas grill section of your home center store (like Home Depot or Lowe's.) (I got mine from Bass Pro Shop) This smaller bottle can then be suspended from the rail in a canvas bag. Saves the need to run a gas line from a midship propane locker! One can also get an aluminum propane bottle, 5 lb capacity, from West Marine for only about 6 times what my painted steel 5 pounder cost! And since the propane refillers insist that the tank is only good for 10 years before inspection and re-certification, if the steel one lasts 3 years you're money ahead!


DANG!!! I missed a great thread. Oh well. I knew I shouldn't have gone to the boat and should just stay on sailnet.

At any rate, the above advice is sound. If you grill al lot, those little green bottles get expensive. But I still keep some around because I can take one of my grills to shore for shoreside cookouts.

Cruising, etc... just go get the freaking hose from Homedepot or Lowes. Why would you want to haul around all those little green things? Can you imagine the Jamican's face when you take him a sack full of little green bottles and tell him you want them all refilled??? HEHE! Er hmm, it would go something like: "Eh, mon. You one cheap Bast***. I ain't refillin all them little jugs mon. You fly back to the states and go to Walmart. It be cheaper." HEHE!

You guys crack me up.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

actually- four common sizes- 5, 10, and 20 lb tanks are usually for bbq grills and such, and 30 lb. which is generally used for forklifts and such for steel tanks.. Aluminum tanks are usually 6 lb. and 11 lb. Fiberglass tanks are usually 10, 20 and 30 lb. BTW, the 30 lb. tanks shouldn't be used with bbq grills as a general rule, since they don't have a restrictor to prevent liquid propane from getting out of the tank to the device. Liquid propane getting into a grill is a bad thing.



TrueBlue said:


> Insignificant nit-pick point, but the 2 standard, refillable propane cylinder size options are, 10 lb & 20 lb, not 5 lb & 10 lb.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Had a 5lb alum. cylinder on a portable grill back in the late 70's - early 80s . . . tossed it since I couldn't get it refilled anywhere. I don't think it's standard today and not many cruisers keep that size onboard.


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

I love my 5 and 10 pound refillable cylinders for the boats magma, BBQ picnics, the beach, camping etc. A great size for portability. As someone who has worked in the propane industy, a jury rig is no place for a propane rig! Get the adapter hose and a refillable cylinder which will pay for itself quickly.


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## cnc33voodoo (May 15, 2008)

bushrat said:


> I love my 5 and 10 pound refillable cylinders for the boats magma, BBQ picnics, the beach, camping etc. A great size for portability. As someone who has worked in the propane industy, a jury rig is no place for a propane rig! Get the adapter hose and a refillable cylinder which will pay for itself quickly.


just a question-where did you get the tanks,i just went to ct,home depot,lowes this past weekend and cant find them.my next stop is a bbq store but they generally have bigger tanks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

True value hardware stores often have the 5 lb. propane tanks in stock. You can also buy them on-line.


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

I have seen them at canadian tire. Superior Propane may or may not have it in stock but they can order them.


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

By the way these smaller sized refillable cylinders can safely be refilled useing the proper fittings and a hose from say a regular 20lb one. This makes your propane purchases very economical. Some places have a flat rate per pound but you are often paying more per lb to fill a smaller cylinder.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

When I was younger and dumber I had the little greenies inside the storage area in my little Oday 20(which wasn't sealed off from the cabin) until my dad went sailing with me and saw the little greenies where the shouldn't have been. He pointed out on the label where it said not to store them inside and that they are not to be refilled. I then got to go swiming against my will for being a dumb dumb gum gum. Good thing the water wasn't freezing cause it was a long swim back to the dock.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Better a long cold swim back to the dock than you turn yourself into boat confetti later... I bet you haven't forgotten that lesson, and won't make that mistake again.


Islander30Bahama said:


> When I was younger and dumber I had the little greenies inside the storage area in my little Oday 20(which wasn't sealed off from the cabin) until my dad went sailing with me and saw the little greenies where the shouldn't have been. He pointed out on the label where it said not to store them inside and that they are not to be refilled. I then got to go swiming against my will for being a dumb dumb gum gum. Good thing the water wasn't freezing cause it was a long swim back to the dock.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> Better a long cold swim back to the dock than you turn yourself into boat confetti later... I bet you haven't forgotten that lesson, and won't make that mistake again.


Damn skippy SD That is one lesson that will never be forgotten. On the new boat I plan on building an aluminum airtight container here at work to store the large 20lb bottle that I will use for the galley as well as the bbq. Probably install propane detectors inside it and in the bilge as well. I recently saw a boat on craigslist that had a propane explosion in it was not a pretty sight.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*Shouldn't be air tight...should have a drain overboard for the any propane gas that leaks to drain out. *If it is airtight, it could be come an explosion hazard.


Islander30Bahama said:


> Damn skippy SD That is one lesson that will never be forgotten. On the new boat I plan on building an aluminum airtight container here at work to store the large 20lb bottle that I will use for the galley as well as the bbq. Probably install propane detectors inside it and in the bilge as well. I recently saw a boat on craigslist that had a propane explosion in it was not a pretty sight.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

So one small vent line to the top of the container ran up mounted on the outer side of the (gunwhale? the raised part of the cockpit where the sheet winches are?) then one out of the bottom to the stern to keep air circulating through to prevent any build up of explosive gases? Then place one propane sniffing sensor in the bottom of the cockpit storage then one in the bilge in the salon somewhere to be totally safe? I want it to be totally safe cause its my baby and will be my home this fall. 

Thanks SD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just remember the drain for the propane should be as low as possible in the locker, since propane is heavier than air, and should not have any bends in the drain line that might trap water and prevent the drain line from functioning properly.


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