# U.S.-Bahamas, Crossing the Stream



## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Good morning,

My father and I have just completed leg 1 of our journey, taking our '98 Dufour 45 classic down the Chesapeake, through the ICW to Charleston, SC. We're taking a two weeks off to perform boat maintenance, plan, etc. 

Knowing that a north wind makes the Gulf Stream nearly unpassable I was thinking about taking the ICW further South in order to make days not suitable for crossing productive. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find many established routes south of Hilton Head, SC until Florida. Why does no one seem interested in crossing from say Savannah, Georgia? Are there good departure points between Charleston, SC and North Florida aiming for the Abacos? Any advice or experience that can be shared is greatly appreciated, if anyone has questions about our ICW experience I would be happy to share (although my knowledge is limited to one trip, albeit a very pleasant and successful one).


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

You'll be fighting the Gulfstream. Here is a recent thread that might shed some light - http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/104505-miami-bimini.html

Ralph


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

The further south you set off for the Bahamas the better. Miami to West End is an easy sail. Jacksonville to West End much harder because you are heading into the Stream.

Do not be seduced by straight lines. The easiest route from Charleston, and we have done it several times is:

Outside from Charleston to Jacksonville then close to shore down the Florida coast where there is a counter-current going south. If the weather is bad just stay in the ICW

Personally I would go as far as Lauderdale, many would recommend Riviera Beach, so that I rode the Stream to West End. 

Whatever you do you have to counter the minimum of 30-40 miles of northing that the Stream creates as you cross and it is much easier to make the corresponding southing on the Florida coast.

Going outside is really very benign and easier than the ICW providing you pick the right 2 day weather windows. If you jump off far north you will be out there long enough for a low to march off the coast and you are likely to be in some very nasty conditions. 

Good luck


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

So basically too much time fighting the Gulf attempting a crossing above Florida? We'd prefer to run 24 hours and have constant progress towards our destination, so I'd prefer not to cross from Florida over the bank, I'd rather start more north and aim for the East side of the Bahamas (Abacos). Does anyone attempt this type of crossing? A Florida crossing means another week in the ICW, which is totally possible, but less than preferable.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

*York Sailor*- Outside Charleston-Jacksonville to avoid the tide/ shoaling issues in Georgia? Crossing the Stream on that leg or hugging closer to shore? Why wouldn't you jump from Charleston straight to the Eastern islands of Bahamas? Too many weather concerns, too much time in the Stream? Is it simply not preferable, or does it border on not possible?


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

I am assuming that because you chose the ICW that you are not comfortable with being off-shore for several days in 40 knots of wind and 15-20 ft seas. 

We are too big for the ICW but we never used it when we had a smaller boat or did deliveries. If you draw 6ft Georgia can be difficult.

We came down from Charleston November last year and we went into Jacksonville for fuel and breakfast after a night of near gale force winds and seas. There we met a 4 man semi-pro crew that had bailed into Jacksonville after 4 days of being uncomfortable.

My wife loves being out in that stuff and we might go directly but it is not guaranteed to be benign.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

We did the ICW for multiple reasons, partially due to lack of experience on the ocean, but most importantly to save time. I can't say I'd be thrilled to be in seas of 15-20 feet and winds at 40 knots, but the boat is certainly capable, with the right crew I'd say there isn't much our boat couldn't handle. Since our crew is somewhat short on experience I want to make a crossing that is reasonably safe, and somewhat ease into it, but still challenging, adventurous, and enough to push my skills and comfort zone.

I feel we can get a reasonable forecast 4-5 days in advance, and would not attempt a crossing, especially such a long crossing, in North winds or similarly bad weather. The weather concern gets us back to the original question, would it be prudent to take the ICW down into Georgia and cross from there if we cannot start our crossing as initially planned from Hilton Head, SC? (is the initial plan even safe/ reasonable, or overly ambitious?)

Personally, I'm interested in a more ambitious crossing than Ft. Lauderdale to Bimini, but there is a fine line between ambition and stupidity. I'm trying to embark on a challenging journey, but still keep a reasonable level of safety. If a long leg from SC or Georgia is not safe I'll make alternate plans, but if it is just not as comfortable or easy as the shorter hop from FL I'll stick with my plans. Basically, your feedback seems to be that a long leg is a bit more difficult and risky, but not unreasonable or unsafe if properly planned, does that properly sum it up *Yorksailor*?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

DO NOT LEAVE FOR THE ABACOS FROM ANY FURTHER NORTH THAN FORT WORTH.

Evening departure from Fort Worth sees you at Memory Rock at about 10 am. cross the banks to Great Sale Cay and anchor catching up on sleep. 

There are umpteen threads on this. Basically No North in the forecast and turn back if you are getting beat up!


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

*TQA*- Can you elaborate as to why you say do not leave from more North of Ft. Worth? Is it not possible, or just less enjoyable? I'm not interested in being conservative, just reasonably safe, so I don't want to deviate from my plans without clearly understand why my plans are misguided, if they are. While your advice my be sound I can't simply take your word for it.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...related/102885-sailing-ne-florida-abacos.html

Here is a similar thread where TQA, quite sensibly, argues as above, and I argue that it is possible to just go sailing and see what happens. However, my approach is not for the inexperienced which is why I suggested getting to Riviera Beach or even Lauderdale.

It is not possible to hug the edge of the stream as at Lake Worth the Stream is very close in. I stay within 4-500 yds of the beach, weather permitting.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

*Yorksailor*- That thread was very helpful, seems to me that a shorter hop, from Ft. Lauderdale or whereabouts is the much safer and more well traveled route. However, at this point I think we'll arrive in Charleston, head south through the ICW until we find a weather window we like and make the crossing as soon as we can, be it Hilton Head, Ft. Lauderdale or somewhere between.

I like the go sailing and see what happens attitude, anything that will happen will happen out there (Captain Ron is an integral family movie). I feel with reasonable planning and a well equipped boat it would be fine. From my previous understanding, and from what I'm hearing if weather is bad don't f**K with it, but if weather is good virtually any city would make a good departure. Certainly some departures are easier, and shorter crossings make weather predictions more reliable, but as long as conditions are good I should be as well. I understand Mother Nature will punish the unprepared and the overly confident, but this trip is supposed to be an adventure. I won't back down from a more challenging passage without just cause, but before attempting a more challenging passage I will make sure to prepare diligently. Thanks for the advice, smooth sailing guys.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm curious as to what response you were hoping for? It sounds like you have no intention of following the advice of those with more experience.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> *TQA*- Can you elaborate as to why you say do not leave from more North of Ft. Worth? Is it not possible, or just less enjoyable? I'm not interested in being conservative, just reasonably safe, so I don't want to deviate from my plans without clearly understand why my plans are misguided, if they are. While your advice my be sound I can't simply take your word for it.


Why it is simple the Gulf Stream is relentless. Every second you are in it you are being carried North at 4 knots in the center although it lessens at the edges.

The prevailing wind is E to SE.

So say you leave Charleston and Head for Walker Cay. Your track is a little S of SE. So the wind is more or less on the nose and the current is pretty close to being on the nose too.

What will your VMG [ velocity made good ] be do you think? This is assuming you are motoring into wind and current.

It is 400 miles roughly to Walker Cay. Do you have enough diesel?

My guess will be a minimum of 5 days with 7+ more likely.

Remember with every day you are out there the risk of encountering a fast developing cell which will turn the wind to the North increases. I cruised for 7 years in a bullet proof steel ketch. I got caught out in the stream south of Hatteras by such a cell. It is the ONLY time I had green water on the foredeck more or less all the time and ONLY time I had water building up in the cockpit and the ONLY time I worried about the boat breaking.

So stock up in the Publix at the North end of Lake Worth. WAIT FOR A GOOD WEATHER WINDOW light easterlies or south easterlies or anything from the south or south west. Be VERY CAUTIOUS about leaving in west winds as they are normally followed closely be a northerlies.

Have a pleasant overnight motor sail to Memory Rock


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

*DRFerron*- It is certainly not that I do not value others advice, but I will definitely be making my own decision, and the advice and resources from this thread are only a fraction of the decision making process. I wanted to hear why people do not typically make the crossing where I'm considering. If the reasons were significant, if there were risks or issues that could not be properly managed then I would reconsider my itinerary.

Although I'm planning on the road less traveled, my understanding is that my plans are not unreasonable, just more difficult, and with diligent planning and patience a longer crossing with more significant time in open water sounds possible. My intended route is certainly not the easiest or the safest, but if properly managed it, it sounds relatively safe and not overly difficult.

Basically, I wanted to hear if I was way off-base and missing something, and so far the answer seems to be no, I'm just ambitious and optimistic, but I see no reason not to shoot for a more challenging approach knowing I can always fall back to the suggested routes.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Oh yes one extra thing if you do make it to Walker Cay do not go swimming in the sea. Do not go in up to your waist or even your ankles without being very alert and on the look out for sharks.

Some idiots [ look like divers to me ] have been hand feeding bull sharks from the shore.

Any wonder there are regular shark attacks in the Bahamas. Like this one in August this year. Largo man at Tampa General after shark attack in Bahamas | Tampa Bay Times


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

*TQA*- That is a more thorough response and as such, much more helpful. I envision waiting for a S wind that matches the current (totally clear why you don't cross in a north wind), being able to cross the stream at a roughly 30-45 degree angle, with winds of a similar angle off the starboard side(very little tacking, hopefully little motoring). Our main diesel tank holds 56 gallons, which lasted 300+ miles in the ICW, and we'll have 25 gallons on deck as reserve, so I'm anticipating being able to motor for 400-450 miles without issue, so should be ok even if we do not use sails (and we will sail as much as possible).

While I'd be in the Stream longer than the perpendicular cross over from Ft. Lauderdale, I think it is possible, but I do see why it would be a more difficult trip. I also expect a 5-7 day trip from SC to Bahamas, but to get to Ft. Lauderdale from Charleston is at least 4-5 days in the ICW, certainly not a time saver, but certainly safer.

Having a good, reliable weather forecast sounds critical, without that my intended crossing is impossible. If I get a favorable 7 day forecast, trusting that the first 3-4 days are accurate (should be clear of stream after a few days, so N wind is less of a concern) then I think I can go for the harder crossing. If I do not get a great weather window I have no intention to force it, and will just ICW further S. If weather takes long enough to clear I will end up in Ft. Lauderdale and be making the safer cross anyway. Thanks for the advice, hopefully I don't seem overly stubborn, I just don't want to sacrifice my ambition unless absolutely necessary.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Gotcha, we plan on doing a lot of self-directed dives, but I was worried about scuba in the Bahamas with all the shark feeding they do. Part of why I want to take a road less traveled, dive sites will be more isolated and I'm less likely to find sharks habituated to divers having food.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

You might want to ignore the Fort Worth advice as that's in Texas! 

Fort Pierce, Fort Lauderdale and Lake Worth are all excellent inlets.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

Lake Worth is a good port of entry if returning from Bimini, btw. An easy walk to clear in at Homeland Security near Riviera Beach Marina.

We'll be leaving Brunswick, Ga. in a couple of weeks, and head there to cross to West End. Maybe we'll see you there (to the OP)?

Ralph
| sailing away with R & B


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Have you guys seen buoyweather.com I started clicking around today, seems to provide the required weather info exceptionally well.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Yorksailor said:


> The further south you set off for the Bahamas the better.





TQA said:


> DO NOT LEAVE FOR THE ABACOS FROM ANY FURTHER NORTH THAN FORT WORTH.


I know I'm one of few voices in the wilderness, but I would suggest that with a well-found boat and a decent crew, y'all are already WAY too far South.

On a Dufour 45 Norfolk to Marsh Harbour should be just over four days. Easy run. Some delivery skippers (including me) do owner-aboard jumps over. Many owners find that the cost of a ride-along skipper is less expensive than the fuel and other costs to run down the ICW to Florida before hopping across.

If you like the ICW, its many lovely places to stop, and the natural splendors it has to offer than that is great. If you just want to go to the Bahamas there is no need to drone down the waterway to reach your goal.

Someday I'll spend Thanksgiving in St. Marys GA. In the meantime, I'll leave Norfolk or Beaufort after the 1 Nov insurance date and make the Abacos (or Exumas) well before Thanksgiving. Some years I can do it twice. *grin*


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

I mean the ditch was fun in someways and has its purpose, but I'm after some open water. Seems there is definitely a wrong way to do things, but with proper route planning there are many routes and options. One more day of ICW to Beaufort/ Hilton Head, and if conditions are right its off to Abacos, if not more ICW until the weather is good and a window opens. Under good conditions it sounds fine to cross from anywhere between Cape Hatteras and Miami. Also, checking buoyweather.com, looks like there is a major lull in the Stream almost due East from Hilton Head, while the Stream up FL is much much stronger.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> I know I'm one of few voices in the wilderness, but I would suggest that with a well-found boat and a decent crew, y'all are already WAY too far South.
> 
> On a Dufour 45 Norfolk to Marsh Harbour should be just over four days.


Crikey, now I gotta start agreeing with you! 



I agree with Auspicious, Norfolk is a good jumping off place.
Last year I did the ICW and it was great becasue I am Australian and it was my touristy thing to do. But once done I dont need to do it again. I was doing about 50 nms per day and often times had to spend nights in marinas to fill the days in with motoring.

Going outside is only 675 nms, about 6 days and once outside the Gulf Stream you can see the current drops off a lot, and there's eddies. 
Just plugging away at it will be much quicker than the ICW and much cheaper.

Someone with local knowledge may be able to do the beach hopping thing inside the west wall of the Gulf Stream, but I dont think thats necessary.

the ICW is nice but its loooooong.

A 6 day cruise is over within a week.  Great maths eh?!


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## priscilla (Mar 20, 2000)

Where are you entering the Bahamas? The approach from the north is difficult, reefs and sandbanks. The Walkers cay channel is narrow and shallow and local knowledge is critical. . My boat draws 5' 4" and coming in thru Walkers Cay was touch and go...then its shallow all the way down to Sale Cay. You need really good weather...and you don't want to be north of the Bank in the dark. Sailnet people are giving you good advice!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Without some local assistance, it could be a mistake to try entering from the east into Walker's. Don't think I'd try it. The prevailing wind from the east could present a "rage" condition as you arrive.

As far as the Gulf Stream goes, it varies in speed considerably. This has to be figured on a current basis (no pun). It's not always running at 4 knots and only runs max right in the center (which also needs to be checked as to position). On Passage Weather today, for instance, current adjacent to Ft. Pierce is running quite slow:http://www.passageweather.com/maps/florida/rtofs/024.png 
so if setting out the actual current needs to be figured and not some rule of thumb about how fast the Stream runs.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

priscilla said:


> Where are you entering the Bahamas? The approach from the north is difficult, reefs and sandbanks. The Walkers cay channel is narrow and shallow and local knowledge is critical. . My boat draws 5' 4" and coming in thru Walkers Cay was touch and go...then its shallow all the way down to Sale Cay. You need really good weather...and you don't want to be north of the Bank in the dark. Sailnet people are giving you good advice!


I cross the Gulf Stream from Norfolk at 135T head East of the Bahamas and enter the Sea of Abaco through North Man O' War Cut. If weather is bad I stand off or go another day and enter in Nassau. I don't see anything like shallow water until into the inlet. Easy peasy.

Auspicious draws 6' and I've done it on boats to 7' plus.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

The OP is a novice. Encouraging him to do things that are better suited for experienced sailors is irresponsible and reckless.
Some people seem to be full of bad advice.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> I cross the Gulf Stream from Norfolk at 135T head East of the Bahamas and enter the Sea of Abaco through North Man O' War Cut. If weather is bad I stand off or go another day and enter in Nassau. I don't see anything like shallow water until into the inlet. Easy peasy.


As he says North Man o War cut is easy peasy. 30 feet deep in the cut and .8 of a NM INSIDE the island before it gets down to 15 feet.
You can ring and ask for conditions on the VHF.
If theres a big swell from the North try North Bar Channel, which is tucked in, and 13nm south.

Certainly not irrisponsable or reckless.

Mark


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

xort said:


> The OP is a novice. Encouraging him to do things that are better suited for experienced sailors is irresponsible and reckless.
> Some people seem to be full of bad advice.


Please note that I earlier suggested anyone with concerns about the offshore hop to the Bahamas take along a delivery skipper or other experienced sailor. The costs can be balanced against the fuel, food, and marina expenses you DON'T incur motoring down the ICW.

I do owner-aboard deliveries regularly. I have colleagues who do the same that I would be happy to refer anyone to if I'm booked or if anyone feels my counsel is self-serving.

Granted I have a warped sense of humor but I enjoy meeting up with people in the Bahamas who I saw in Norfolk or Hampton and have just arrived a month after I did. *grin*


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys, much of it is sound. In particular, all advice about weather, and approaches to avoid will be heeded, I don't think there is one right way to do any passage, but there are certainly wrong ways.

The Bahamas is only our first destination around Cuba. From there we are going for Turks-DR-Jamaica-Caymans-Cozumel-Florida. Bahamas as currently planned would be the longest leg, being a 5-6 day passage, while most of the other hops should be 2-3 days of 24 hour cruising.

Also, what may be lost is that I am approaching this trip with a significant amount of flexibility. I certainly intend to make a passage from SC-Bahamas, but if we arrive in Charleston facing 2 weeks of North Wind, I'll be spending that time down the ICW to FL. While I may not be superbly experienced, there is only one way to become an experienced sailor. Proper planning and reasonable precaution will ensure the experience does not come at a great cost. Also, there have been tens of thousands of dollars invested into the boat, including new rigging (lines, checked & cleaned sails), new Raymarine e120 nav. equipment, new high capacity alternator, feathering prop, etc. 

Significant planning has been made for this trip, and I feel pretty well prepared, the baot couldn't be more prepared. I wanted to know why my plans were different than most, and if I should reconsider. So far it seems my plans are not out of reach, but I should have serious respect for weather and be prepared to alter plans as need, it seems flexibility would be judicious. As far as I can tell, in the right conditions a passage from SC-Bahamas is feasible and enjoyable, but in the wrong conditions it is miserable and potentially deadly. 

Does anyone have a good understanding of the Blake Spur, and what happens with currents around there? Right now, assuming I get a good 4-5 day weather window, the activity around the Spur makes me think the leg has to be due East from Hilton Head above* the Spur, then S/SW to Abacos. Can anyone share insight on the currents/ conditions around the Spur, and whether/why it sound be avoided?


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

Ambitious
I'm not quit understanding your logic and thought process on your trip over to the Bahamas. I have not done the trip over as of yet , hoping to make it there early next spring on a return delivery back north from Key West. However I have done lots of planning and reading. Question: why spend 4-5 days in the ICW when it is only 2.5 days from Charleston to Lake Worth and that's hugging the coast where there is little n. current. It will also gets you and your crew more experience with passages. And then you would have a very safe and pleasant jump over to the West End from Lake Worth. 
Question: since this is the beginning of a much longer adventure why not take the advice of those whom have made trip many times safely in the past. Isn't the whole idea here to make it as safe and enjoyable as possible so that you may continue the rest of your journey?
I very much envy you and your adventure and hope to do the same someday, but non of us want to hear of your demise only the greatness of your trip- Pictures included.

Peter


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Justified,
A cruise hugging the coast down from Hilton Head to Lake Worth, Lauderdale, etc. is not a bad idea, but I have not sufficiently researched that alternative. I know the ICW would generally work, although there are depth/ tide concerns in Georgia, and bridge concerns in FL. Neither concern is major, but they could slow us down (we were making roughly 75 statue miles a day Norfolk-Charleston) The condition of the ICW in Georgia is partially why we've looked into a SC-Bahamas passage. 

Based on research, the current seems to be very tight to shore in South Florida. I think Charleston, SC-Jacksonville, FL could be done outside the ICW, but without crossing the Stream. I'd think after Jacksonville we'd be pretty much restricted to ICW until we wanted to make the crossing. Regardless, it is an option that should be considered. I would say this approach, or simply ICW to the West End crossing is just as, if not more likely than a Charleston-Abacos passage. Reality is the weather is most likely unfavorable, so instead of holding out in Charleston waiting for a window that may never come, I would make progress south, likely going so far as to make the more traditional passage from Lauderale-Bimini-Abacos the only option.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Why would you be restricted to the ICW south of Jax?

I'm new to this, so forgive the ignorance of my question, but if your goal is to gain offshore experience while still staying safe, wouldn't it make sense to stay within 3-5 miles offshore (or more if you prefer and the current isn't too bad in opposition) and sail straight through for a few days? That give you the experience you want while still keeping you close for an easy rescue should issues arise. Personally, I'd want that as my shake-down for boat and crew before trying to cross the ICW head-on. Clearly, if you're only doing 75 miles a day, you aren't sailing 24 hours a day. If you haven't done that already, how can you be sure you're all really up for the task?

I'm also surprised that you're only making 75 statute miles a day. My 31 did better than that on our trip.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Jimgo,

We did 75 miles doing roughly 6 knots @2500rpm. When I say in a day, days were typically 7a-5p. I think we could run offshore, but inside of the Gulf Stream from SC to Jacksonville, FL. After Jacksonville, the Stream starts pressing very close to shore, so I envision fighting the current too much if trying an offshore leg from say Jacksonville to Ft. Lauderdale, although I have not tried so I speak from research and hypothesis, not experience.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Jimgo,

We ran typically from 7a-5p down the ICW, going about 6 knots @2500rpm. I do believe we could have ran 6a-6p and gotten +75 mi in a day, maybe even 100 mi with favorable currents or running the motor harder. We had planned of 50mi/day, so 75 was plenty good.

We could certainly do an offshore run from SC to Jacksonville, FL and stay inside the Gulf Stream. In fact, it looks like there is a counter-current running right off the coast in that stretch (this info. comes from buoyweather.com, but passageweather.com is a good free resource). After Jacksonville the Stream gets closer to shore, so I'm not sure you could run down the coast beyond there without fighting current the whole way. My research suggests after Jacksonville we'd want to go back inside to say Lauderdale, but I don't have experience in those waters so I can't say for sure. I'd imagine other members of the Forum would be of greater assistance with that question.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My father and I have just completed leg 1 of our journey, taking our '98 Dufour 45 classic down the Chesapeake, through the ICW to Charleston, SC.


How was that part of the trip? We had planned to make it up to the Chesapeake, but gave up and stayed in Georgia for this hurricane season. It was July when we got here, and afternoon thunderstorms were nasty. The Georgia ICW seems pretty challenging, even considering that we did the ditch from Galveston, Tx, to Pensacola, Fl.

There are some problem areas to watch as you get closer here, if you continue on the ditch southward. I'd go outside from Hilton Head down to Jacksonville, if the weather is ok. You can also come in here at St. Simons (a good inlet, but long) if you want a short break. There is a good anchorage near Morningside Marina, where we stayed, at anchor, a few nights.

There is some skinny water at low tide near Jekyll Island (on the ICW), so beware. The only place we had a problem was just south of Fernandina (Saw Pit Creek?). Check out Active Captain, or I can look it up for you. We had a problem with a 5' draft, but it was low tide. One other is just south of Matanzas Inlet. Follow the markers near shore! Bottom line-the Florida ICW is NOT maintained very well as you get closer to Georgia. Farther south is fine.

Anyway, have a safe trip, which ever way you go.

I'd love to just leave from here, Brunswick Georgia, and head to the Abacos like other's suggested. BUT....we don't have an autopilot, so it's too hard on us (my wife and I) over 60's crew. Plus, you need a longer weather window. We use http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/hilton_head_island, passage weather, and http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/AM/470.html. I also download gribs on UGRIB (free).

Ralph


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

To the original question -
You have a couple issues here which I don't think have been adequately addressed yet. First, from Cape Hatteras in NC to Palm Beach in FL, the coast falls away to the west. That means that any Bahamas bound trip leaving south of Beaufort NC (but north of Palm Beach), will have to cover additional miles to the east. 

Charleston might be the best example of a bad departure point. Yes, you are further south than Beaufort, but you are much further west. In addition, at WPB and at Beaufort, the GS is rather compact and close to shore. Compact means that you can get across it (and out of the associated dangers) quicker. Closer to shore means that when you set out you will have a better understanding of what the conditions in the GS will be when you get there. At Charleston the GS is far offshore and not at all compact (narrow). That means you are covering additional ground with a less foreseeable weather for the most volatile part of the trip and the duration of the time in the stream may be significantly longer. Those are some of the major offshore to the Bahamas points for consideration. 

As you get further south and are considering an overnight jump to the Bahamas from Florida, the issues have been more clearly discussed already (the need to work against a fast moving portion of the GS). Hope that helps some. Do a search and find some of the GS charts online and you'll get an idea of where it runs (distance from shore) and how fast and how compact it is in various locations. Combine that with an understanding of the way the US east coast falls off and you'll have a better sense of the different routes and the conventional wisdom.
-M


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## saldrich (Oct 10, 2013)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> My father and I have just completed leg 1 of our journey, taking our '98 Dufour 45 classic down the Chesapeake, through the ICW to Charleston, SC.


Great job!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

In case you haven't seen this, I thought I'd pass it along:

The Gulf Stream

It seems that some of the links there aren't working, most likely due to the government shut-down.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Charleston to Fernandina is an easy overnight. From there the inlets are not class A until Canaveral except Jax. There's potential for issues on arriving at these inlets. Local knowledge is important. 

we've run the Fl icw with a 5'6" draft and 62' mast without incident. It is a long way out around Canaveral along the coast. It has always been easier to keep pushing on down the ditch once you are in N Fl.

But if you're looking for adventure...


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

RTB said:


> How was that part of the trip? We had planned to make it up to the Chesapeake, but gave up and stayed in Georgia for this hurricane season. It was July when we got here, and afternoon thunderstorms were nasty. The Georgia ICW seems pretty challenging, even considering that we did the ditch from Galveston, Tx, to Pensacola, Fl.
> 
> Ralph


 The ICW from Charleston-Norfolk was quiet pleasant, and no serious issues to report. The fixed bridge in Isle of Palms was clearing 63' feet at high tide, so we drug our VHF antenna on the top. There were a few inlets that were challenging in NC, with Little River inlet being the most south bound one of note, the trick is to run the mainland side of any channel going past an inlet, the ocean side fills in faster. We did nearly get stuck in an inlet channel, watched my depth gauge plummet from 10-5' in seconds, backed straight back up the channel and made it through with relative easy hugging the mainland side.
The rock pile in Myrtle Beach was quite a narrow squeeze, would have been a bad time to pass anyone, but we cleared fine. I believe the worst stretch is 349-352, regardless stay in the middle of the channel and you should be fine, we cleared with a 6' draft and went through on a rising tide.
On a positive note I saw way more dolphins than I expected. Starting 25 miles north of Norfolk, all the way into the city with a sighting every 15-30 minutes. Had a few sightings in NC, with the closest encounters being in Cape Fear, NC (we made eye contact). Dolphins all over SC, sometimes miles inland into the marshland. The last day, Georgetown to Charleston so many dolphins in the marsh, then again at the marina in Charleston watched a guy swim right past the dock in the evening going upstream, woke up the next morning and he swam right by again going downstream.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for the info. We'll try to get an earlier start next year, and finally make it up that way.

Ralph
| sailing away with R & B


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Anyone have experience doing an offshore leg from Hilton Head, SC to Jacksonville, FL? In current conditions the Gulf Stream is far enough offshore there to run inside of it, probably on a counter current. Does a North wind create problems for being offshore if you're not on the Gulf Stream?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> Anyone have experience doing an offshore leg from Hilton Head, SC to Jacksonville, FL? In current conditions the Gulf Stream is far enough offshore there to run inside of it, probably on a counter current. Does a North wind create problems for being offshore if you're not on the Gulf Stream?


You'll be well inside the GS. Current seems to be variable inside, sometimes against you, sometimes with depending on where you are but not very strong. Check Sailing Weather - Marine Weather Forecasts for Sailors and Adventurers - PassageWeather

This time of the year NW/N winds become more frequent. If in the GS they can be dangerous.


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## Wappoo (Apr 30, 2012)

We live in Charleston and have made the trip south to the Bahamas for over 15 years. There are many ways to do it, even north of Lake Worth. The last several years we have crossed from Ft. Pierce, usually in a dying northerly once the seas have calmed down. Leave at dawn and at dusk you are on the Bank. If you keep moving in protected waters to MH, you will have made all of your easting so you can sail down island to where ever....staging to do this trip in Vero provides endless provisioning possibilities in addition to the wonderful cruising community. 
We have also crossed from Lake Worth to Lucaya and Miami to Nassau (will never go there again) but got stuck there for several weeks due to strong NE's...doing it before Christmas is usually easier. If Diana Nyad can swim across the Gulf Stream, I am sure you will have no problems in a 45' boat, just pick your day.
Chas-south....we usually do the ICW to Beaufort and then jump out to St. Mary's or St. Augustine but check on the Inlet before makiing that trip...Chas. to St. Mary's is also easy.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> Anyone have experience doing an offshore leg from Hilton Head, SC to Jacksonville, FL? In current conditions the Gulf Stream is far enough offshore there to run inside of it, probably on a counter current. Does a North wind create problems for being offshore if you're not on the Gulf Stream?


So, are you on your way yet? A boat came in here today. I met them on the sidewalk, and asked where they had come from. Charleston was the answer. They had some wind for awhile, but motored for the last 12 hours, but it was nice out there. I think the migration has begun?

Ralph
| sailing away with R & B


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

We do Charleston to Fernandina in one easy overnight. HH will be shorter. North wind can be nice if strong enough to sail. Light north with swells from east maybe not.
Passageweather gives wave predictions.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

We have yet to begin, left the boat in Charleston for two weeks so we could return to our dreaded work lives. Also getting some things fixed/ added to the boat prior to the crossing. We'll start leg 2 10/30.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

If I wanted to run 24 hours a day from Hilton Head, SC to say Jacksonville or St. Augustine how feasible would that be? I certainly wouldn't run the ICW at night due to numerous crab pots, fish trap areas, unlit channel marks and related navigational hazards. Will I find similar issues with an onside run SC-FL? What are some of the best ways to mitigate these risks on a budget? With the right combination of charts, spotlights, AIS is a 24/7 run as described reasonably safe, or do I need an infrared/ night vision system to substantially mitigate risk?


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> If I wanted to run 24 hours a day from Hilton Head, SC to say Jacksonville or St. Augustine how feasible would that be? I certainly wouldn't run the ICW at night due to numerous crab pots, fish trap areas, unlit channel marks and related navigational hazards. Will I find similar issues with an onside run SC-FL? What are some of the best ways to mitigate these risks on a budget? With the right combination of charts, spotlights, AIS is a 24/7 run as described reasonably safe, or do I need an infrared/ night vision system to substantially mitigate risk?


I've noticed a trend in your posts...an over-reliance on gizmos and doodads. I was the same way, convinced that all the electronic goodies would help me automate my boat to a point where these passages are easy.

After owning my boat for 5 years, here's what I've learned. *NOTHING* beats sound, rested crew and good ol' Eyeball Mark I.

Rather than focus on AIS, Radar, charts, plotters (all of which are a constant source of breakage and maintenance for me now that I've installed them), focus on finding good sound crew...and making sure there are ENOUGH of you aboard so that you're able to take proper rest and do shifts that are reasonable.

The electronics *help*...but they cannot supplant good rested experienced crew aboard.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

We have a crew of 3, and plan on working with a 3 man rotation, where each member is primarily responsible for 8 hours, and assists another 8 hours, with then 8 more hours for sleep. I'd like to take Hilton Head to Jacksonville/ St. Augustine to test how our rotation will work. Then take a day or two of ICW running south to get closer to a better passage and to rest. This leg skips the worst stretch of ICW through Georgia and provides an opportunity to test how our crew and shift schedule will work.

The issue I face is how many navigational hazards will I face being offshore, but inside the Stream from SC-FL. I know there are far too many unmarked hazards (crab pots, unlit poles) to comfortably do an ICW run over night, but will I face similar issues 10-20 miles offshore? If you had any insight into this particular passage offshore from SC-FL regarding any points that are relevant to navigation (unlit buoys, unmarked obstructions, etc), that would be of great assistance, as charts and maps only tell a partial story. Like everything else on the water there is no substitute for experience and local knowledge, so I'm after insight beyond what I can research myself. I've viewed charts, so I have some understanding of the passage and I cannot see why I shouldn't be able to run at night in that stretch of water. If I am missing something regarding this particular stretch of ocean please share. Otherwise, happy travels.


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

Ambitious
I think you are pushing your crew with that watch schedule, might be ok for a day or two any longer and you will have fatigue setting in. you might want to try something like 3hr helm, 3hr assist, 3hr sleep or in 4hr blocks. that way the same person won't have the overnight watch all the time. That is the schedule we use when transporting with a 3 or 4 person crew and it seems to work out.
Also remind your crew that even thou the sun is out _never ever pass up a chance to sleep _. 
We will be headed south on Persistance - Person 36 on Nov.1 from Westbrook Ct
Peter


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I think you're starting to hit on a good plan. As Peter (Justified) said, I'm not sure you want an 8-hour schedule. 3-4 hours is about the max, really, unless you're going with a much looser definition of being "on duty".


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

I could see why you'd want to shorten the schedules, as we rotated every hour or two at the helm while on the ICW, due to the associated fatigue. However, assuming we get the right schedule together that fits our crew, a 48 hour continuous hall from HH, SC to North Florida is feasible and relatively safe? There are no significant crabbing areas, or other navigational hazards that wouldn't show on a chart or GPS that need to be planned for, or maybe avoided? While fatigue is a concern I feel it would be much better to find out hey our plan for 24-72 hours of continuous sailing is rubbish between SC-FL, rather than between Abacos-Provo. Sounds like fatigue is the greatest concern, but what are some others? We did do some pre-dawn mornings on the ICW, most notably leaving Georgetown, SC and while mentally taxing we were only an hour or so before sunrise, a full night of sailing is a much greater commitment, so I want to make sure it's reasonable. 8-12 hours of what I experienced in the mornings leaving Georgetown and other places would be too much, I literally need a more open ocean relatively free of potential snags and hazards or night time travel is not worth it, so am I correct to believe I have that SC-North Florida?


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

So I live in Beaufort, SC.
I want to do my first overnight singled handed sail this fall. I was thinking of going out the Port Royal sound at dark and heading out into the darkness " well maybe a bright moon lit knight" then back. Do you see any trouble in this for my first trip? I am knot sure how far the Gulf stream is from the coast. i sure dont want to find it the hard way. I will be in my 30 C&C MK1 with a 16 hp dependable Yanmar diesel. I have a good chart plotter and know the area well. I have sailed this area all summer and some last fall. 
let me know what you think.

https://activecaptain.com/X.php


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

ambitious/rubbish said:


> I could see why you'd want to shorten the schedules, as we rotated every hour or two at the helm while on the ICW, due to the associated fatigue. However, assuming we get the right schedule together that fits our crew, a 48 hour continuous hall from HH, SC to North Florida is feasible and relatively safe? There are no significant crabbing areas, or other navigational hazards that wouldn't show on a chart or GPS that need to be planned for, or maybe avoided? While fatigue is a concern I feel it would be much better to find out hey our plan for 24-72 hours of continuous sailing is rubbish between SC-FL, rather than between Abacos-Provo. Sounds like fatigue is the greatest concern, but what are some others? We did do some pre-dawn mornings on the ICW, most notably leaving Georgetown, SC and while mentally taxing we were only an hour or so before sunrise, a full night of sailing is a much greater commitment, so I want to make sure it's reasonable. 8-12 hours of what I experienced in the mornings leaving Georgetown and other places would be too much, I literally need a more open ocean relatively free of potential snags and hazards or night time travel is not worth it, so am I correct to believe I have that SC-North Florida?


Where are you coming up with 48 hours? In a 45' boat you ought to be able to do the entire Charleston to JAX in well under amount of time. Port Royal Sound (Hilton Head) is significantly closer (50NM less?) -- maybe a 24/hr run tops. If you want to go offshore to test the crew and save some time on the ICW, I'd head out from Charleston. You'll still be inside the gulf stream. The rhumb line from Charleston to JAX is under 200 NM. I don't understand the big concern about uncharted stuff out there. If you get 10-15 miles off before you head south (maybe the 10 fathom line?) and keep an active watch, you should be fine. I've only done it 2x so I am hardly the expert, but I'd study the charts (know your distances / times fall off points -- get the Dodge SE USA Inlets book as a backup) pick your weather window and go. Do you have the Maptech Norfolk to Florida Chartkit? This trip (leaving either from Port Royal or Charleston) is pretty easy to set up with that Chartkit. Leaving Charleston may even be easier simply because the coast falls away more and you get it out of your way.
-M


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

Well the thought is one day ICW Charleston- Hilton Head to recapture our sea-legs (and to see how the 70 year old grandfather will do). Then I'd like to go outside from HH to Jax or St. Augustine and run 24/7. My father doesn't want to run through the night while outside, which I think is a terrible mistake. He is concerned about bumping into things during the night, so I basically want to know if his concerns are grounded in reality. I think we'd be fine, it should be way more open than the times we ran in the ICW at dark, and I really want to make time. Concerns are things like in Georgetown where there was an unlit unmarked pole in the middle of the channel, which we nearly ran into in the pre-dawn darkness. I'd think I wouldn't have those issues offshore, but we really do not want someone with a spotlight to have to sit on the bow and scan for crabpots all night.


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## ambitious/rubbish (Jun 20, 2013)

and 48 hours is only a conservative guess. I think it was 180 miles, so probably closer to 36 hours.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Anything is possible but not probable if you run offshore overnight.

My wife and I double hand outside from Charleston to Fernandina every spring and fall with no problem.
I would skip entering St Augustine, it isn't a class A inlet like St Marys, St Johns.

We like having radar and AIS.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

There are no crab pots in the ocean. Radar is almost essential running at night to pick up buoys and to monitor large ships. There are quite a few private offshore buoys, fish sanctuary buoys, and structures with no lights (like the Frying Pan Shoals platform). Radar gives you a clear picture of what's around you. I almost always pick things up on Radar well before seeing them at night, especially if there is no moonlight to help and it's rough. Charleston to The St. John River is an easy, straightforward ocean passage. Just be mindful of the warships and LARGE container ships entering the St. John. As far as hitting stuff at night, IMO the chances are pretty small. There does not seem to be lot of flotsam. If there were a flood or something and rivers were spitting out tree trunks, I'd begin to worry about it. Sailing by the stars at night is wonderful.

One thing about electronic charts to be aware of is that you need to check all the layers because some unlit buoys will not show up on all the different scale layers of the same area. One layer will show them, the next....gone!


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