# Life jackets for kids: rigid or inflatable?



## Dreamstimer

What's your experience, is an inflatable suitable for 3-4 years yo kids? My local dealer sells them only from 20kg up. I find the rigid ones to be uncomfortable, especially when is very hot outside. Am I wrong?


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## cormeum

We like the Mustang foam ones with the collar and strap. Only our older kids get inflatables.

I'd rqather not trust the life on a little kid to depending on an inflatable working- or a little panicked kid remembering to pull the cord.


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## JohnRPollard

Unless there's something new on the market, I'm not aware of any inflatable PFDs that are approved by the USCG for use with children. If there's something new, let us know with a link, please. [Previously, there was a hybrid system that combined foam with an inflatable bladder, but those did not remain on the market for very long and I haven't seen them available for 5+ years now, I think.]

Even if there were, I would stick with closed cell foam for kids. With kids, PFDs need to work flawlessly, without any worry about maintenance or whether the system will self-active or get punctured, etc.

I will echo the suggestion of the Mustang L'il Legends PFDs for kids. These are really the best out there. Very young kids will fuss at first, but get used to them after a while if parents remain firm. They need to be worn at all times when on dock or deck, whether underway or not. If you are consistent with the kids, they soon grasp how it works and it becomes second nature.


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## jackdale

In Canada 


> Inflatable PFDs are not made to
> be worn:
> • by anyone under 16 years old;
> • by anyone who weighs less than 36.3
> kg (80 lbs);
> • on a personal watercraft; or
> • for white-water paddling activities.
> Inflatable PFDs come in the following
> two styles:


They have good site for selecting child PFDs

Information about Lifejackets and PFDs from the Safe Boating Guide - Transport Canada


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## ottos

From the USCG Aux.Vessel Examiner's Manual:



> Inflatable PFDs that have NO INSTALLED BUOYANCY have been
> approved by the Coast Guard as an alternate recreational
> devices, FOR ADULTS ONLY.


I'm sure it's in a CFR somewhere 

I see that Landfall had a Sospenders hybrid for kids, but they are no longer available.


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## pdqaltair

Dreamstimer said:


> What's your experience, is an inflatable suitable for 3-4 years yo kids? My local dealer sells them only from 20kg up. I find the rigid ones to be uncomfortable, especially when is very hot outside. Am I wrong?


It always helps if you give more information on the header; location and boat type. Something to add for future posts.

__________________________

Don't listen to anything I say. I break safety rules when I percieve it is safe to and don't really care too much what some of the group thinks about this.

If you live somewhere really hot (Chesapeake Bay, Florida), then if you are going to put the kids in PFDs on a flat clam 100F day you should probably just stay home. It's cruel. We used PFDs some when my daugther was little, but we used a hybrid aproach: harness when conditions were calm to reasonable; in the cabin when rough; PFD when rough or cooler, with a harness too; PFD in small boats or in the water; LOTs of parental attention when small.

Sail Delmarva: Climbing Gear for Sailors; or Jacklines and Harnesses for the Unemployed There is a picture of my girl when she was tiny on a hot calm day, in a harness, playing in a bucket.

But if you listen to any of this, you're on your own. It isn't legal. I don't know you, your boat, the weather, or the waters. I'm just giving some options.
Sail Delmarva: Are You "Captain Safety?"

I've been climbing and sailing for 30 years. I am very attentive. I have also witnessed "safe" people with all of the right gear get dead because they lacked skills. Never a moments inattention, particularly with kids.


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## Dreamstimer

Sorry for not mentioning, I made a few other posts today. I'm in Romania, my trip will be in the Aegean, Cyclades. The temperature is supposed to be quite high (close to 100F at shore), so a rigid vest will be unpleasant for the kid. I don't want to make any compromise on safety either. 
Lalizas (Welcome to LALIZAS S.A., Immersion suit manufacturer) have mentioned inflatable are possible for kids above 20kg in weight. Considering it's a Greek company, I suppose standards are different but still, this should be EU compliant.
Cormeum, aren't the inflatables supposed to self-inflate at water contact? I realize you can't rely solely on these, but then the parent should be near. 
I will take a look at the Mustangs, but am really concerned about the discomfort in such heat. If you visited Greece you know what I'm talking about.


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## hellosailor

I would suggest there are no inflateable PFDs suitable for very young children. Children,by their nature, run into all kinds of things and don't think twice about it. Inflateable PFDs are easily damaged or punctured or triggered, and then they are worthless.

Better to put them in "waterski" type vests that are more comfy, and available in bright colors with their favorite heros or cartoon characters on them. At least you KNOW that will still work, no matter what the kids get into.


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## Dreamstimer

@pdqaltair, read your blog, very impressive setup (and explanation) for the harness. You raise a few very good points. Will keep them in mind but considering I'll be chartering, installing such equipment will be impossible or very time consuming. And being new to this, I'd rather trust the life jacket, at least until I will make my own educated guess.


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## Dreamstimer

At what age do you all think an inflatable would be Ok? My older one is 8 years, I assume she will be ok with that.
Don't tell me you all wear rigid jackets. Btw, Pdqaltair aside, do you all wear your lifejackets all the time? Honestly... 

Thanks, I'm glad to be here (first day)!


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## cormeum

hellosailor said:


> I would suggest there are no inflateable PFDs suitable for very young children. Children,by their nature, run into all kinds of things and don't think twice about it. Inflateable PFDs are easily damaged or punctured or triggered, and then they are worthless.
> 
> Better to put them in "waterski" type vests that are more comfy, and available in bright colors with their favorite heros or cartoon characters on them. At least you KNOW that will still work, no matter what the kids get into.


the only (and big) problem with ski vests is they won't turn the kid face up. necessary for little kids.


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## jackdale

Dreamstimer said:


> At what age do you all think an inflatable would be Ok? My older one is 8 years, I assume she will be ok with that.


It may vary from country to country - in Canada 16 years old.



> Don't tell me you all wear rigid jackets. Btw, Pdqaltair aside, do you all wear your lifejackets all the time? Honestly...
> 
> Thanks, I'm glad to be here (first day)!


I wear an inflatable underway at all times. It does not count unless you are wearing it.


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## JohnRPollard

Dreamstimer said:


> Sorry for not mentioning, I made a few other posts today. I'm in Romania, my trip will be in the Aegean, Cyclades. The temperature is supposed to be quite high (close to 100F at shore), so a rigid vest will be unpleasant for the kid. I don't want to make any compromise on safety either.
> Lalizas (Welcome to LALIZAS S.A., Immersion suit manufacturer) have mentioned inflatable are possible for kids above 20kg in weight. Considering it's a Greek company, I suppose standards are different but still, this should be EU compliant.
> Cormeum, aren't the inflatables supposed to self-inflate at water contact? I realize you can't rely solely on these, but then the parent should be near.
> I will take a look at the Mustangs, but am really concerned about the discomfort in such heat. *If you visited Greece you know what I'm talking about.*


I have sailed a bit in Greece -- along the mainland, the Peloponnese, through the Dodecanes, Cyclades, the Ionian coast, etc. That was a particularly hot summer, when it hit 49 C in Athens. Out in the islands, the Meltemi was blowing and it was fairly chilly on the boat while underway - we wore layers.

If you are going during the time of year when the Meltemi will be blowing, your kids will appreciate the warmth of the standard PFDs.

As others mentioned, in North America inflatables are not approved for use for children under 16 years of age. So we don't have any on the market here. I took a look at the one you mentioned ( Child's Inflatable PFD ), and indeed it seems that europeans have more choices on these than North Americans do.

I still prefer the fail-safe foam jackets for kids, but if it's a choice between no pfd and these inflatables -- definitely go with the inflatables. And if you do go with the inflatables for your kids -- it would be great if you could report back and let us know how it worked out. Hopefully, you'll have no cause to inflate them, but it would be nice to hear about comfort/practicality, etc. 

Have fun!


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## pdqaltair

Dreamstimer said:


> At what age do you all think an inflatable would be Ok? My older one is 8 years, I assume she will be ok with that.
> Don't tell me you all wear rigid jackets. Btw, Pdqaltair aside, do you all wear your lifejackets all the time? Honestly...
> 
> Thanks, I'm glad to be here (first day)!


A single jackline can be rigged in minutes using a spring line from front cleat to aft (this is what you do when delivering a boat that is ill equipped--been there). We're not talking Southern Ocean here, and the kids would not be on deck in the rough. In fact, if it is rough you'll need the jacklines.

It's cold here in Maryland now. PFD every time in the tender and the harness goes on before I leave the dock (I am forced to sail single-handed in cool weather it seems). I'm not a fool; I tailor my precautions to the situation and cold water kills.


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## chall03

pdqaltair said:


> A single jackline can be rigged in minutes using a spring line from front cleat to aft (this is what you do when delivering a boat that is ill equipped--been there). We're not talking Southern Ocean here, and the kids would not be on deck in the rough. In fact, if it is rough you'll need the jacklines.
> 
> It's cold here in Maryland now. PFD every time in the tender and the harness goes on before I leave the dock (I am forced to sail single-handed in cool weather it seems). I'm not a fool; I tailor my precautions to the situation and cold water kills.


I really coudln't agree more with your general approach.....

The benefit of modern sailing is all this helpful information, advise and regulation.....the problem with modern sailing is all this helpful information, advise and regulation   

Yes of course we all have to be legal, but more importantly common sense surely should dictate that we all think carefully about what we believe to be safe or not on any given day on our vessels.

Here in Australia I find at times I act far more conservatively than regulations require.......but then at other times I may be more relaxed than the regulations allow.

See that is the problem with regulations and law......they can't think for themselves, they can't look out the window and use their experience and instincts to make decisions.

I can, and I will continue to be the LAST say when it comes to deciding matters related to the safety of my family.

So my advice is forget what is legal, acceptable, popular or common............

Instead do your research.....imagine the imaginable, which is losing a loved one overboard....Check the inflatable's kids PFD's out and try them on......weigh the pros and cons....work out what your protocol will be for when everyone will/will not be wearing a PFD and to what degree comfort will play a factor in enforcing this......

......and then make a decision....

it will be the right decision/a good decision as it will be your decision, not what some bureaucrat thinks.

To answer your other question about people's real practice.....my wife and I are experienced sailors and we generally wear our 'full kit' when offshore in most conditions. Our full kit consists of PFD/Harness combo's with lights/whistles and PLB's.

There are times when we won't wear this offshore, if conditions are placid and we are both together in the cockpit, we may not...........but our instincts are strong and if one of us goes below, normally the other will immediately kit up and clip on.

Inshore we generally don't wear our kits at all......however we have a lifesling, inflatable danbouy(patented aussie design), and throwing bag at the ready.

We play a game with each other......we have an older worn life-buoy with a big moustache and pretty eyes drawn on called Fred. Regularly and randomly we like to throw Fred overboard when the other person is not paying attention at all and this thereby constitutes a man overboard.

To date Fred has always been back onboard within a few minutes.

However I have to reiterate that when offshore we are of the belief that prevention is far better than cure. We were both taught by offshore racing types who bashed into us that a man overboard offshore is a dead man.


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## fallard

I have an 8 yr old grandson who wears a waterski-type PFD when we go sailing and he doesn't complain, because he knows it's not a negotiable issue. If you are really concerned in an open water situation, a tether is a good idea, but I' avoid round jacklines--except as a last resort--because they will roll underfoot and could send you flying. Flat nylon webbing seems to be the standard here.


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## Tnd

JohnRPollard said:


> Unless there's something new on the market, I'm not aware of any inflatable PFDs that are approved by the USCG for use with children. I


Agree!


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## pdqaltair

fallard said:


> I have an 8 yr old grandson who wears a waterski-type PFD when we go sailing and he doesn't complain, because he knows it's not a negotiable issue. If you are really concerned in an open water situation, a tether is a good idea, but I' avoid round jacklines--except as a last resort--because they will roll underfoot and could send you flying. Flat nylon webbing seems to be the standard here.


Agreed. However, I was dirrecting my comments to the OP:
* It's a charter. Rope is what he will have. Actually, it can work very well if you are able to route it carefully; this is boat specific. When it works, it is easier to handle than webbing. Another reason people like webbing is that it is not vissually confused with running rigging (lazy jib sheets etc.), which is a very valid point.
* It's very hot there, not like CT. There are many places where a full PFD is not just hot, it's courting heat stroke. I'm not saying you don't wear a PFD; I'm saying there is more to think about, since heatstroke is a very real danger in small children. I too have sailed in very hot areas.


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## hellosailor

USCG approval is all well and good--but it is not always relevant. When I bought my PFD there was no such thing as USCG approval for inflateable PFDs, at all, for anyone. There were (and are) other approvals overseas and I continue to wear one that has gotten excellent tests and reviews in water--but has never been submitted for US approval at all.

If you've ever seen video taken of a US president in trnasit on one of the "Marine One" helicopters? Even back in the 80's, they were wearing inflateable PFDs. That's right, even the President of the United States was issued a PFD that was NOT USCG APPROVED. Because the USCG sadly lagged behind the times, and wasn't accepting the good stuff at all.

Nice if it is approved, _not _necessarily meaningful if it isn't.

More of an issue that kids sometimes play rough--and wouldn't be aware of puncturing a PFD.


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## JohnRPollard

hellosailor said:


> ..
> 
> More of an issue that kids sometimes play rough--and wouldn't be aware of puncturing a PFD.


That's definitely a consideration and, again, an argument for the fail-safe foam pfd for kids.

As far as USCG approval goes, the issue is not so much whether the pfd is effective or not, but more to do with compliance. Most states (and, where the state does not, the USCG) require children younger than a certain age to wear a USCG certified pfd while underway.

Obviously not a primary consideration for folks operating outside of U.S. jurisdiction, although the Canadian regs seem to mirror very closely the U.S.


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## boltnbrew

Our 12 year old does not have an inflatable yet, but that is ok because we also use hers as a kayak paddle jacket.


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## boltnbrew

If it were an auto- inflate, we would be buying a lot of cartridges!


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## lowcountrylisa

We live on the coast of South Carolina and do a lot of sailing and power boating with our three and four year old children. When sailing on hot calm days inshore, we have great luck with the following puddle jumper vest for our four year old.

Amazon.com: Stearns Kids' Puddle Jumper Deluxe Life Jacket: Sports & Outdoors

If the weather is bad or the conditions are rough, we use a rigid mustang vest or a neoprene ski type vest with leg strap and neck support.

Our kids are required to wear life vests whenever on dock or boat no matter the conditions. Every now and then you get some whining, but the rule is "no vest, no go." That pretty much nips it in the bud.

Best advice I can give is to put them in the life vest and let them swim and play. Throw them in the pool and see how both respond. A child going overboard will be scared. You need to make sure the vest works as advertised, that the four year old can right themselves if the vest does not have a neck support, and that the child will not fall out of the vest if it has no leg strap.

Have fun!


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## rikhall

Dreamstimer said:


> Don't tell me you all wear rigid jackets. Btw, Pdqaltair aside, do you all wear your lifejackets all the time? Honestly...
> !


When our grand kids are on board Linda and I both wear our PFDs any time we are not below decks. *All the time*. The safety rules that apply to the six year old and eight year old apply to us.

Now, that said, if they are not on board we wear our Mustang inflatables most of the time.

Rik


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## rikhall

hellosailor said:


> That's right, even the President of the United States was issued a PFD that was NOT USCG APPROVED.


The two Mustang Auto inflates that Linda and I wear are not approved in Canada because we happen to have bought them in the USA.

In addition, in Canada, an inflatable PFD is NOT considered as a PFD unless it is being worn. So, four people on board, four inflatable PFDs on the table in the cockpit - no other PFDs on board, if you get stopped you are liable for about $800.00 in fines.

We wear ours almost all the time, but we also have some cheap "legal" PFDs below to satisfy any overly zealous law enforcement persons. But, I have yet to have a marine law enforcement person ask "Can you take that PFD off and show me where it says "Approved in Canada", please."

All that I have encountered on both sides of the border have been polite, professional and pleasant to deal with.

Rik


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## MarshB

Go for rigid. Children around 4 year old are very playful, inflatable are not suitable at this ages for kids.


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## CapnBilll

I'm in Texas, we have 100+ temps starting in the next few weeks and ending in the fall. 

My kids always wear at least a waterskiing type PFD, (full torso, slim body contoured, bright colored). Grownups also wear a PFD, (I don't use inflatables). 

The youngest get a retaining strap, they are allowed to upgrade when they demonstrate a high level of swimming ability. 

Also younger kids are tethered to an adult. I like this better than tethering to a boat. 1. safer 2. they don't feel like a tethered pet. 3. less likely to try to detach themselves. 4. Less likely to be accidently forgotten, when grownups move to galley. 5. that one adult is responsible for child tethered to them, instead of group, ("I though someone else was watching?")

If they get hot? Thats what iced drinks are for....well that and the cockpit shower, or a good dunking.


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## goboatingnow

my kids wore foam PFDs up to about 4-5. then they were good swimmers. Then we switched them to auto inflatables sized for kids. We wear our auto inflatables nearly always. of course for swimming and that we used a buoyancy aid.


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