# America's Cup opening races



## Minnewaska

I suppose I'm going to try to stream them from anchor this afternoon. Despite the advantage of keeping the races in the US, I find myself having to root against Oracle. Let the races go to NZ and we can get them back with another club. Hopefully, Ellison is banned in the meantime.

It doesn't seem like they are the commercial success they hoped either.....



> In fact, with fewer competitors than anticipated taking part in the preliminary racing this summer, the crowds at San Francisco's waterfront were significantly lighter than planned for and merited a reduced police presence, said Sergeant Dennis Toomer of the San Francisco Police Department.
> 
> "Because the boaters have scaled back, we've scaled back," he said. The crowds have been so light, he said, that "sometimes* it's hard to decide if people are out there for the America's Cup or for a walk."*


.


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## JulieMor

I guess Ellison found out there aren't as many billionaires as he thought willing to plunk down a few hundred mil or so just to see their yachts break into pieces. Whoda thunk?


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## overbored

I don't understand the negative about these all out race machines having some technical difficulties in a year old race class. Ever watch the indy 500, the FI, Reno air races or the ******* mud bogs. they all have break downs because they are pushing the limit. Even the 4 knot s**t boxes we sail had their problems in their day and still do. remember the 12 meter that broke in two in 15 knots of breeze. The Americas cup boats are always at the edge of the technology for the time. The boats are amazing and the people that had the vision that it could be done are some of the most amazing people on the plant. 
Root against your own team now thats the sprit


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## blt2ski

Personally, Not sure it is root against your own team, as it is root against someone that does not seem to want to play fair per say. I do hope the US retains the cup. But prefer it not to be Ellison! 

as far as break downs go. No different than the volvo 70's or equal in the round the world race(s). A few other class's that push the envelope per say do have break downs also. For many it is more of the high brow we are above you all attitude of one group.

Marty


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## JonEisberg

overbored said:


> Root against your own team now thats the sprit


Sorry, but the fact that Team Oracle is underwritten by a billionaire who happens to be an American isn't sufficient to make a syndicate headed by a Kiwi in Russell Coutts, and a boat skippered by an Aussie in Jimmy Spithill, qualify as "my team"... 

I'll be pulling for ETNZ all the way, sending the Cup back down to Auckland, and to a country where the general populace truly appreciates yachting, would seem to be the best chance to restore some sanity to the event, at this point...


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## azguy

As a kid growing up in Boston my family thought I was weird watching AC racing on ESPN and just loving it, this latest concoction of AC racing is just awful. I've yet to see one "exciting" race and there is no doubt Ellison is bad for the sport.

AC racing should be reasonable size mono-hulls IMHO....


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## poopdeckpappy

Ahh yeah, the AC, forgot about that.


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## capta

JonEisberg said:


> Sorry, but the fact that Team Oracle is underwritten by a billionaire who happens to be an American isn't sufficient to make a syndicate headed by a Kiwi in Russell Coutts, and a boat skippered by an Aussie in Jimmy Spithill, qualify as "my team"...
> I'll be pulling for ETNZ all the way, sending the Cup back down to Auckland, and to a country where the general populace truly appreciates yachting, would seem to be the best chance to restore some sanity to the event, at this point...


Well I guess there are just no Americans that can sail these boats? It's absolutely disgusting that these races have progressed to the point that you have few Americans on a boat representing the USA. I don't think a boat representing a country should be crewed by an international crew, but only crew members from that country. Hell, it's even the same in the Olympics these days.
I'm absolutely fascinated by these boats and would love an opportunity to sail one, but I guess I'm just not welcome, being an American!
First the rule changes that allow a boat to finish w/o the same crew it started with, then penalty points assessed if a boat hits a mark instead of the traditional re-rounding of the mark and now boats from Italy, Sweden and the US with few, if any, nationals aboard.
I have no problem with pushing the envelope, experimenting with designs that allow a sailing boat to reach speeds in excess of 50 mph in 18 knots of wind, but calling these internationally crewed boats representatives of a particular country is just ludicrous.
It really doesn't matter who wins, for anything other than the racing venue, the Kiwis and Aussies and Pomes are running all the boats, anyway. So we Americans who think we are "sailors" on this site should rethink that, as we obviously are not capable or qualified to call ourselves that, compared to the descendents of the British Empire. Once again, "Britannia rules the waves" even though we whipped their asses for more than half a century in the AC.


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## smurphny

Bring it back to Newport. The whole thing has somehow lost it's "class." I like the hi-tech but it has become a detached event since Dennis Connor lost the cup. I agree American boats should be manned by American citizens.


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## bobperry

I'll root for ORACLE.
Some one has too. I'll sit in the ORACLE section of the bleachers all by myself.

It's just a boat race in extremely interesting boats. A boat race.
I'll leave it to the really smart people to try and turn it into a complex international social /economic/political incident.


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## Omatako

overbored said:


> Root against your own team now thats the spirit


On the Oracle boat:

6 New Zealanders
6 Australians
2 British
4 Hollanders (maybe not anymore )
2 Americans

Root for your team? You actually don't have a team. Not nationally anyhow.

And as I noted on another thread some months (maybe years) ago, don't wish for the rules to include nationality as a team requirement. If that happens the Cup will come to New Zealand and will never leave again. New Zealand could field 3 complete winning teams on any given day.

There is a problem that we're a little short on billionaires but then again, that hasn't been a major handicap for us thus-far.


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## LinekinBayCD

I'd love to see the Americas Cup raced in J Class boats like Endeavor and Shamrock. Modern materials would be allowed like carbon fiber for the mast and hull and Mylar sails. The size specks of the class would be required to be consistent with the old J class boats. Wood coach roofs and bronze hardware would be required on the deck.


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## CalypsoP35

azguy said:


> AC racing should be reasonable size mono-hulls IMHO....


I miss the 12 meters in Newport as well. However, the 12's were a bastardized version of the AC. The genesis of the AC was, I have a bad a**s boat come see if you can beat it.

80% of all sailing races involve reasonably sized mono-hulls. The AC is supposed to special. This is closer to the roots of the AC. See if you can make a boat faster than mine. The AC is about the boat, not the crew.

My jaw drops watching these boats go over 40kts. I still can't believe they can really do that.


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## obelisk

Wow, NZ is way faster upwind!


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## turban10

Wow, those boats are amazing to watch. 40+ knots and only the foils in the water. Just jaw-dropping. I called my wife down to watch some of the race and we were both amazed by what these boats can do. Heck, I get excited when we can get our boat up to 5 knots.


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## JulieMor

It looks like the penalties Oracle suffered will be their death knell. They _may_ have had a chance making up the two race deficit if they got to keep all their crew, but losing crew AND being penalized two races could just do them in. Legs 3 & 4 were dominated by the Kiwis! Not sure even the lost crew could make up for that.

7 to go for the Kiwis, 11 for Oracle. Oracle needs to pray for lighter winds.


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## rbrasi

I thought it was fascinating. I've never watched before, so it's all new to me. As Mr. Perry said, it's a boat race- and a hell of a cool one at that. I'm interested to know why, exactly, team Oracle fared so poorly and whether they can right the ship before it's too late.


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## kunkwriter

I read all these posts and wonder. Good book called Temple To The Wind talks about the designs (Herreshoff) of the late 1800s to the turn of the century, and the history and controversies of the America's Cup races. I'm hearing the exact same complaints today that they heard over a hundred years ago. People thought the designs were to radical and not traditional enough. People were upset that the crew (and captain) was not American. People felt it was too much about the wealthy robber barons funding the races. Seems to me the Race is turning out as traditional as it ever was.


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## Omatako

JulieMor said:


> It looks like the penalties Oracle suffered will be their death knell. They _may_ have had a chance making up the two race deficit if they got to keep all their crew, but losing crew AND being penalized two races could just do them in. Legs 3 & 4 were dominated by the Kiwis! Not sure even the lost crew could make up for that.
> 
> 7 to go for the Kiwis, 11 for Oracle. Oracle needs to pray for lighter winds.


Hey Julie, not for the sake of just being contrary but if the NZ boat wins race after race, the penalty of two races is less important than the loss of key crew personnel but then again, they were racing two identical boats with very similar performance side by side for months. How can they be short of skilled crew? Makes no sense to me.

The most telling thing from the first two races is that Oracle made a huge tactical blunder choosing to race their "slower" boat in favour of the "more stable" one. In this event it is clear that speed is everything. If you don't have speed, stability is moot.


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## JulieMor

In the first race things were fairly even regarding boat speed, that is until the wind kicked up during the 3rd leg, the upwind leg. Then the Kiwis started inching ahead. 

Jobson said the guy who replaced wing trimmer Dirk de Ridder was 21 years old and just wasn't doing the job, compared to de Ridder. I'm guessing Jobson felt the loss of de Ridder was part of the reason why Oracle lost so much ground on legs 3 & 4.

It appeared that as the wind increased, the Kiwi boat got noticeably more out of it than Oracle, while sailing upwind. How much of that could have been negated with de Ridder trimming the wing, I can't say. But if the winds are light, I think Oracle has a chance, though slim considering they need 11 wins before the Kiwis get 7. And that location wasn't chosen because it's known for light winds.


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## FSMike

bobperry said:


> I'll root for ORACLE.
> Some one has too. I'll sit in the ORACLE section of the bleachers all by myself.
> ---


You'll have me for company, Bob.
I was sitting in a bar where EVERYBODY else was only interested in the Georgia vs South Carolina football game.
Having no volume to hear the announcers, can anybody tell me what the problem was with Oracle's main?
I have to admit to being very amused at a gazillion dollar ultra high tech boat being repaired with what seemed to be black duct tape.


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## bobperry

Mike:
I can meet you in the bar tomorrow or you can come to my beach shack. We'll watch together. I didn't see the repair. The Indians (I live on the Tulalip Reservation) were pulling a beach seine net up onto the beach and I wanted to go see the salmon. 1,000 lbs. of salmon on the beach at your feet is a lot more fun than the America's Cup.

"What happens in the sweat lodge, stays in the sweat lodge."


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## SloopJonB

The speed of those boats is boggling. The TV graphics that look like they are actually in the water are very cool. The whole thing is so over the top it is indescribable.

It makes for a lot better spectating than the older boats but I'd like to see the races be a little more than a quick sprint around a short course. They should have to race out to the Farallones and back.


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## Minnewaska

What's the point, if you don't pick a team. Pick whoever you like.

So far so good. I'm just hoping to rid the sport of a virus.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Yes, the Kiwis have won this.

I did almost, almost, fall off the chair when they intervewed the skipper of Orical and I heard an Australian accent!

So its Kiwis Vs Ausies!? Well then how the hell have the Aussies got the slower boat? Wheres Uncle Hollywood with his 'candy'?

NZ will win. 52 seconds in the second heat will take some beating.



Omatako said:


> On the Oracle boat:
> 
> 6 New Zealanders
> 6 Australians
> 2 British
> 4 Hollanders (maybe not anymore )
> 2 Americans


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## emcentar

I have to give a plug for the YouTube America's Cup channel coverage. After giving up on finding a bar showing the race, we just watched it on our projector and it was just amazing watching the race on the 'big screen'. Can't compare it to the NBC coverage as I don't have a TV but I thought they did a great job.


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## capta

emcentar said:


> I have to give a plug for the YouTube America's Cup channel coverage. After giving up on finding a bar showing the race, we just watched it on our projector and it was just amazing watching the race on the 'big screen'. Can't compare it to the NBC coverage as I don't have a TV but I thought they did a great job.


Espn2 also covered the race, at least down here in Grenada. I found the commercials on NBC to be absolutely disgusting; with such short races, why couldn't they put the commercials before and after the races? Perhaps they broadcast the soaps well, but they should never be allowed to broadcast sailing again.


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## ScottUK

The first race was fantastic, especially after snore of the LV cup though I enjoyed the RBAC youth regatta. Too bad the last race was abandoned.

What the AC34 needs is another lap. 1 beat doesn't cut it as beating appears to have more passing opportunities.

The second race most likely should have gone to Oracle. ETNZ fouled them at the start it just unbelievable they were not penalised! One of the biggest things about match racing is the start. Now that appears to be taken away by the jury.



> I'll sit in the ORACLE section of the bleachers all by myself.


Maybe the reason you will be alone is becasuse your grumpy Bob.


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## Minnewaska

emcentar said:


> I have to give a plug for the YouTube America's Cup channel coverage. After giving up on finding a bar showing the race, we just watched it on our projector and it was just amazing watching the race on the 'big screen'. Can't compare it to the NBC coverage as I don't have a TV but I thought they did a great job.


I thought I was going to watch on NBC Sports iPad app, but couldn't connect. I had 2to 3 bars and intermittent 3G at anchor. YouTube worked great, although, it seemed to automatically degrade the quality to accommodate. I preferred that over buffering interruptions.

I wasn't sure youtube was going to work, as they claimed it would blocked in certain areas, during broadcast television segments. Pretty sure the first two races are the only ones that are going to be on broadcast TV, with the remainder on NBC Sports cable.

I may catch today's races on wifi back at the slip.

Go ETNZ!


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## Group9

I tried to watch it last night. It's interesting, but it's a funny kind of sailing.

I watched every twelve meter AC race since I was a teenager, most multiple times on the VCR.

I turned it off this time before I even saw who won. I just don't care.


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## JonEisberg

SloopJonB said:


> The speed of those boats is boggling. The TV graphics that look like they are actually in the water are very cool. The whole thing is so over the top it is indescribable.
> 
> It makes for a lot better spectating than the older boats but I'd like to see the races be a little more than a quick sprint around a short course. They should have to race out to the Farallones and back.


Sure, the sheer speed is impressive, no question... So is that of a top fuel dragster. And that seems to me what Ellison has done to the AC, transformed it from Grand Prix racing into the more uniquely American form of Drag Racing...

It's stunning to me how many of the elements of yacht racing have been _REMOVED_ by the use of these boats... Gone are so much of the _TACTICS_, and gone are so much of the crew work, particularly _SAIL HANDLING_...

The very short starting sequence, and the downwind starts are a joke... These boats are so ungainly, so unmaneuvarable at slow speeds, the fascinating pre-start chess match and delicate jockeying for an advantage that were unique to the AC are history... With these off the wind starts, gone is the possibility of the tactical choices of one end of the line seeming favored, the possibility of splitting tacks immediately, or even something as bold as attempting a port tack start... Instead, we have this drag race to the first mark, and whoever gets there first, it's game over...

But ultimately, it's the sheer speed of these boats which has removed so much of the interest in the actual sailing of these boats, for me... The fact that no matter what 'point of sail' they're on, they are virtually _always sailing close-hauled_ has largely removed the crew from the equation. Gone are the use of free-flying downwind sails, the majestic spinnaker sets, the amazing teamwork involved during a jibe, and the incredible tacking duels that gave the trailing boat a chance to force the leader into making a mistake... Pretty much the sole 'tactic' I see in these races is keeping the boat up on the foils during a jibe, the ability to do that alone seems to be the decider in these races that are nothing more than a procession after the drag race to the first mark... Has anyone actually been able to determine visually what the crew is actually doing on these boats, aside from running from side to side on the nets, and grinding winches?

Yeah, the speed of these boats is impressive, alright... And the races so far about as interesting to me as a drag race, and over just about as quickly... I'm thinking there is a very strong possibility that, barring some sort of gear failure/breakdown, we'll make it through an entire AC series without seeing a single race that has not been decided in the first 45 seconds, and that stupid drag race to the first jibing mark...


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## Minnewaska

Naturally, the shoreside crowds were big for race 1. I will be curious to see what happens in the coming races. I'm also curious what viewership ratings look like. Given they've managed to divide the sailing community themselves, I doubt they drew in many new viewers.

As I watched yesterday, I was trying to put myself in the shoes of a non-sailor. Having no idea what a tack, jibe, rights, downwind, etc, even are, it would be impossible to get into the race. I even heard the announcer analyze VMG, using the acronym, not describing the point in plain English. In most sports, you can quickly grasp whom is winning and scoring points.

A non-sailor sees the big boats up on foils. Oooooo, ahhhhhh. Then you're lost, particularly as they head n different directions, until the finish line, which you don't even know is coming until they tell you.


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## ScottUK

Jon

I agree with most of your points concerning sail handling and tactics. However in the first race there were lead changes on the beat and Oracle lost due to a tactical decision on the beat. As I said in another post that the race should add at least another lap so they could go to windward where it appears some movement either way can occur. It might also help if they had different courses instead of W/L (L/W in this case) with a hook at the start and a hook at the finish.


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## JulieMor

What I don't like about the AC 34 is the fact Ellison made it so expensive to participate it took competitors, that would have normally considered entering, out of the game.

OTOH... 

I loved the 12s. The Js are breathtaking. But I understand the idea of getting the rest of the world interested in the America's Cup. Before the first American loss, the Cup was hardly a blip on the sports scene. And for a while, its fan base and press coverage jumped after that loss. But then it dropped again. So I get Ellison trying to stir up a fan base but there are so many obstacles in accomplishing this.

In an attempt to increase the fan base, golf introduced "stadium golf" where one or more holes on a course were surrounded with stands and the typically quiet crowd was allowed to cheer, hoot and holler. A lot of golf fans hated this, but it's still here, though used sparingly.

But stadium sailing won't work. Will they try to build stands on the Golden Gate Bridge? I can't see how they could get the fans closer unless they set up a floating stadium. Think of all the problems that would introduce.

But I agree, sailing terminology needs to be well explained or you'll lose the non-sailors quickly. To their credit, NBC did have some text boxes pop up but there was no way they could have done that for all the sailing terminology used by the announcers during the race, and still allow the viewer time to watch the race.

I think this will be a one and done for the AC 72s. But if the boats used in the next Cup can't amaze the fans in some other way, the new fans will walk. And if Oracle keeps losing decisively, the new fans will start vanishing before the series is over.


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## smurphny

AC or any of the major yacht races will never be mass market spectator sports, nor should they be. Trying to market these events like ipods (or some gadget made by Oracle) is somehow out of place.


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## blt2ski

Oracle HAD the lead.......oh well, not sure which boat they are using today, but lost decisively in #3!

Marty


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## RTB

...and won race 4. Pretty good racing today. Actually, somewhat exciting to watch.

Ralph
Water view at low tide | sailing away with R & B


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## Omatako

Minnewaska said:


> As I watched yesterday, I was trying to put myself in the shoes of a non-sailor. Having no idea what a tack, jibe, rights, downwind, etc, even are, it would be impossible to get into the race. I even heard the announcer analyze VMG, using the acronym, not describing the point in plain English.
> 
> A non-sailor sees the big boats up on foils. Oooooo, ahhhhhh. Then you're lost, particularly as they head n different directions, until the finish line, which you don't even know is coming until they tell you.


Actually this is no different to any other yacht race and actually the older AC's had much more of this than the AC34. And it is really no different to me watching baseball or grid iron football - I have no idea of the rules and don't much care so I don't watch it. Every sport has it's knowledgeable followers and the also-watched. I never hear the commentators in a grid iron match explaining the rules - you either know them or you don't.



Minnewaska said:


> In most sports, you can quickly grasp whom is winning and scoring points.


Watching the scoreboard and knowing who is winning is not as good as watching the game and knowing who is winning.

I know hindsight is a perfect science but having watched races 3 and 4 today, this is full-on match racing at 40 knots - it is nail-biting stuff at least for me it is. And if Spithill continues to meddle with Barker's start process, Oracle are right back in this.

ETNZ took 39 seconds off Oracle on an upwind leg in race 3 and nothing in race 4 and Oracle won so things are evolving. I reckon this event is going to improve with every race. It's not over till it's over.


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## Minnewaska

Omatako said:


> ..... it is really no different to me watching baseball or grid iron football....


I don't agree. While one may not know the rules, seeing someone run around the bases and score at home plate or catch a pass and run toward the goal line is learned in seconds, just by watching. This also can repeat over and over again. I'm not suggesting one would enjoy it, just that they would get the basic idea. Watching the AC34, one wouldn't even know where the finish line is, let alone who is winning most of the time.



> It's not over till it's over.


I'll give you that, although, I hope ETNZ keeps it up.


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## JulieMor

RTB said:


> ...and won race 4. Pretty good racing today. Actually, somewhat exciting to watch.
> 
> Ralph
> Water view at low tide | sailing away with R & B


Maybe my memory isn't as good as it once was (okay, not maybe...) but I'm remembering Jobson saying yesterday that once the winds picked up the Kiwis surged ahead, especially on the 3rd leg. But in race 4, the wind was 20+ and Oracle pulled out a close win. Even more telling was the fact this was the first race where Oracle didn't get creamed on the 3rd leg, the only upwind leg.

So maybe Team Oracle needs big winds to win. Where is Jobson when you need him?


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## Omatako

Minnewaska said:


> I don't agree. While one may not know the rules, seeing someone run around the bases and score at home plate or catch a pass and run toward the goal line is learned in seconds, just by watching. This also can repeat over and over again. I'm not suggesting one would enjoy it, just that they would get the basic idea. Watching the AC34, one wouldn't even know where the finish line is, let alone who is winning most of the time.


From the shoreside, the boats come from the left, they head over to the right, they go round a mark then they come back and on the left side they go around another mark and they come back and then they round the last mark and head for the finish line. Rules aside, that's not really complicated. If as a spectator one doesn't know which side the finish line is then it's probably best that one watches grid-iron.

Oh, and the boat in front is generally the one that's winning. 

On TV (and the big screens on the shoreside) the graphic overlays could not be better. They start with a full description of the course, where the boats have to go and then following the boats, they show the real-time distance between the boats, which one is in front, where the next mark is, the boundaries, they're reasonably idiot proof. You get none of that when watching baseball or grid-iron. For the uninitiated, to know what VMG is is like me knowing why the fellow crouching behind the batter points two or three fingers at his three-piece-suite.

Seriously, the sport of sailing is technical - if you don't have the interest then it's gonna be confusing - you only need to watch a game of Union rugby to understand how confusing it can get. I think the AC organisers have gone more than one extra mile to make it enjoyable for the non-sailor.


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## Faster

I do think the broadcasts are well done.. The technical issues are addressed nicely, certainly the 'buzz' of speed is evident, the level of engineering and skill needed here is at a whole other level.

But for me, in the monohull days we could watch, dream, and see the relevance of what the racers are doing to what we mere mortals were doing in our own boats. Even if that relevance wasn't really there, things 'looked' similar enough that we could totally relate. And I get that non sailors probably would never get hooked on that venue, whereas they might now with this new generation.

But what happens if someone gets all wound up to get into sailing and then finds out the real deal for most of us is NOTHING like what they watched on TV...

The short prestart, lack of sail handling and sail changes are key things that I think sailors will miss with these big cats.


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## Omatako

Faster said:


> The short prestart, lack of sail handling and sail changes are key things that I think sailors will miss with these big cats.


Yep, have to agree with that. One of the commentators on TV called them "slave boats" - the only three people who have anything intelligent to contribute are the helmsman, the mainsail trimmer and the tactician - the rest of the crew are just grunts providing hydraulic pressure to the control systems. 

Or so it appears, they'll probably be offended by that statement.

But going around that top mark and accelerating from 18 to 40 knots in three seconds or so must be something to experience.


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## sailjunkie

Faster said:


> I do think the broadcasts are well done.. The technical issues are addressed nicely, certainly the 'buzz' of speed is evident, the level of engineering and skill needed here is at a whole other level.
> 
> But for me, in the monohull days we could watch, dream, and see the relevance of what the racers are doing to what we mere mortals were doing in our own boats. Even if that relevance wasn't really there, things 'looked' similar enough that we could totally relate. And I get that non sailors probably would never get hooked on that venue, whereas they might now with this new generation.
> 
> But what happens if someone gets all wound up to get into sailing and then finds out the real deal for most of us is NOTHING like what they watched on TV...
> 
> The short prestart, lack of sail handling and sail changes are key things that I think sailors will miss with these big cats.


Excellent points.

After reading this thread last night, I swore I would have nothing to do with watching it. Ended up watching it anyway.

While speeds of 40 knots are breath taking; and the excitement was there. The sailors who I know (even the racers) don't need crash helmets. As you suggested, we can all "relate" to what was done with the mono hulls, even if it was beyond our budget.

I also wonder how non-sailors find the TV coverage? My wife and I both sail, so we had a general understanding of what was happening. However, we are cruisers and didn't always "get" the racing terms. Wonder how non-sailors found that?

I don't particularly care who wins. Team Oracle would be a US fan favourite. However, if the Kiwis win, we all know that the cup will be going where it is hugely appreciated.

Meanwhile, many thanks for a fun thread.


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## DrB

*Enjoy, but could be better.*

I must say, while I did watch the older AC on the TV, frankly, I thought they were "boring" from a casual observer view point. Way off shore, minimal "fans", some tech, but ho hum unless you were really into it.

While I not a big fan of the "cats", the speed and acceleration is awesome. The close proximity to fans is very cool. The tech on TV is great.

My major complaint is the races are too short (time). I think that only one upwind leg (at least in races 1 and 2) is bad. Also a "down wind" start is a bad decision IMO. Hopefully they mix it up a little for the latter races (upwind start, upwind finish, two upwind legs, etc). They also should either add length to the legs, or have them do additional legs. Races should be in the 40-45 minute range. Time between races should be 15-20 min, not 1/2 h. Enough time for the guys to rehydrate, add some calories, do some quick repairs/adjustments, strategize, physically recover.

Understanding that TV needs commercials, have most of them , and the longer ones between races, along with post-race quick review. During race, commercial free from 2-min before start till 2 minute after start, then 30 sec commercial, show rounding at each mark, commercial free for upwind leg. (time the up wind leg, so it takes no longer than 12 min) Commercial after windward gate cleared by both boats, through a few 30 second commercials during downwind legs, etc.

I do miss the sail changes. If there was a way to get the speed, "longer" spectator friendly races, with sail changes, that would be the best of both worlds. Even if the boats were much slower, but still quick (15-20 kt range), I think fans would still go for it.
think


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## JulieMor

Wherever one might be on the whole issue, it's hard to say the fourth race wasn't exciting. FINALLY, Oracle was in the race. And any landlubber watching had to know it was close all the way. But those same people had to be wondering why Oracle still needs one more win to get to _ZERO_.


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## aprilsails

I've been watching the coverage after the fact on the AC Youtube channel and I have to say it's really nice watching without commercials. The graphics and display is very well done and I find it's pretty straightforward as long as you watch the pre-race summary.

These first four races have been infinitely more exciting than the LV series. I also really enjoyed watching the Red Bull youth teams zipping around with far more boats on the course.

I'm up in Canada and there has been no news coverage of this event. My Dad had a hard time finding it live yesterday and he has a full sports package on satellite here. For all that their banking on increasing viewership I have a feeling this is a non-event everywhere other than in the US, NZ, Aus, and UK, where the sailing culture is stronger.

I have to say that I am impressed that the Prada Italy team stuck around for 2 weeks after the LV series to 'play' with NZ. Good sportsmanship on their part and good training for everyone.


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## rikhall

sailjunkie said:


> The sailors who I know (even the racers) don't need crash helmets.


Right - and how many of the racers you know need to carry *mini SCUBA tanks* - lol

If I was forty years younger and in a condition to crew one of those machines, I'd want everything those guys are wearing / carrying and more!

Fun stuff.

Rik


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## Minnewaska

aprilsails said:


> ......The graphics and display is very well done and I find it's pretty straightforward as long as you watch the pre-race summary.....


I admit that I didn't watch the full pre-race summary for race 1, as I was messing with getting it streaming, while out at anchor. By the time I got going, it must have passed.

I did see it for races 3-4. Well done.

However, I stand by thinking that non-sailors would still have a very tough time following during the race. When one team tacks or jibes and the other doesn't, it must look like two different races. Then at the gates, they make different turns. Its also difficult to visualize where they actually are on the course, unlike most sports. Whether football, baseball, soccer, etc, you can take it all in. Even race car driving is simpler, as the leaders don't head off in different directions. The graphics that show their actual separation down the course are very good, but still must be confusing to many.

I'm not suggesting it needs to make sense. However, I thought they were going for a wider audience and doubt it's worked. I hope we hear one way or the other.


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## weinie

If you are watching the races on the internet instead of a 60 inch HD TV, you really can't appreciate how far advanced these boats have become!

I was watching the LV races online, but last nite, I watched the ACs that I DVR'ed on my TV. Wow!


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## emcentar

weinie said:


> If you are watching the races on the internet instead of a 60 inch HD TV, you really can't appreciate how far advanced these boats have become!


Eh, hem. I was watching the AC on the internet too - on a computer plugged into a home projector system which broadcasts a picture that is the size of my living room wall.*










*Honestly, I don't know why everyone hasn't done this yet. I unhooked myself from cable after a four month battle with Comcast back in 2006, and bought my first projector. I upgraded last year to an even better projector (a good projector is still cheaper than a large flat screen TV). Every year more and more television shows and sports are available online. And it's so much cheaper. When I first cut the cord back in 2006 there were real costs (and real savings) but every year it just seems more and more puzzling how the cable companies expect to stay in business with everyone paying through the nose for content that is mostly available online for much less.

**That picture isn't me, or my exact setup, by the way.


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## Waymar83

As usual lots of opinions...

I have to say I was not interested in the pre-race hype nor the LV series. I was also luke warm to watching even race highlights. But, I joined a friend and we watched the opening two races. I was hooked. These are high tech racing machines with one objective: To win the series according to the rules as written. You may not like the rules but the boats and the crews are incredible. Most of us will never sail in these (most of us are monohull sailors with a streak of romanticism with wet dreams at 7 knots) but you have to admit, you cannot beat a catamaran for speed. There is lots of tactics, grunt work, team coordination, intimidation... Sounds like sailing to me and ....in this case, just like in F1, you have a bunch of mercinaries.

As a Canadian, I don't care who wins . I want an entertaining and long series. I was on edge all of Race 4...for a sailing race...... Pretty successful entertainment in my books. I also watched Races 3,4 on Youtube (I don't have cable): Apple TV linked to the net on my 46" with a bose soundsystem. I was a happy camper.


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## FSMike

bobperry said:


> --- The Indians (I live on the Tulalip Reservation) were pulling a beach seine net up onto the beach and I wanted to go see the salmon. 1,000 lbs. of salmon on the beach at your feet is a lot more fun than the America's Cup.
> 
> "What happens in the sweat lodge, stays in the sweat lodge."


Hey Bob -
Did you get a salmon for dinner? Or is that the kind of thing that stays in the sweat lodge?
Anyway, at least Oracle won one. It was starting to look like Barker owned Spithill.
We shall see.


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## SchockT

Well, I was a bit concerned that this AC would be another mismatch where one team dominates, but now that we know Oracle can win a race, my interest is renewed.

The boats are nothing short of amazing, and I think even non-sailors would find them exciting to watch even if they don't understand all the subtleties of match racing. If they are interested in the details the media does a great job of illustrating and explaining what is going on in the race. At least there is the spectacle of speed to keep the average viewer watching, which is more than the old monohulls did. With those boats there was nothing to appeal to anyone but sailors. Even I found them a bit boring. If it wasn't for my interest in the boat handling and tactics I would never have watched them.

What I would like to see is a fleet race with those beasts! Now THAT would be exciting!


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## PalmettoSailor

SchockT said:


> Well, I was a bit concerned that this AC would be another mismatch where one team dominates, but now that we know Oracle can win a race, my interest is renewed.
> 
> The boats are nothing short of amazing, and I think even non-sailors would find them exciting to watch even if they don't understand all the subtleties of match racing. If they are interested in the details the media does a great job of illustrating and explaining what is going on in the race. At least there is the spectacle of speed to keep the average viewer watching, which is more than the old monohulls did. With those boats there was nothing to appeal to anyone but sailors. Even I found them a bit boring. If it wasn't for my interest in the boat handling and tactics I would never have watched them.
> 
> What I would like to see is a fleet race with those beasts! Now THAT would be exciting!


I think the AC like it or not has absolutely gotten the attention of some non-sailors. I've had lots of non-sailors ask me if I'd seen those "big sailboats" racing on TV as soon as they learned I sailed. These folks didn't know anything about sailing but those boats and that racing format caught their attention and interest.

That can't be all bad, even if it has as much to do with the kind of sailing I do as a moon walk.


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## Minnewaska

I wasn't able to see Race 5 today and was hoping to watch the replay before reading about it. For some reason, the replay is blocked to the US on YouTube at 7:15pm EDT. Race is long over, I ended up reading about it. Sounded like a real beat down on Oracle, who then took a pass on Race 6. Excellent.


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## SchockT

PalmettoSailor said:


> I think the AC like it or not has absolutely gotten the attention of some non-sailors. I've had lots of non-sailors ask me if I'd seen those "big sailboats" racing on TV as soon as they learned I sailed. These folks didn't know anything about sailing but those boats and that racing format caught their attention and interest.
> 
> That can't be all bad, even if it has as much to do with the kind of sailing I do as a moon walk.


I do wish the commentators would stop referring to the course as "the Track" and the support crew as the "Pit Crew"! The last thing we want is the attention of NASCAR fans!


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## JulieMor

Minnewaska said:


> I wasn't able to see Race 5 today and was hoping to watch the replay before reading about it. For some reason, the replay is blocked to the US on YouTube at 7:15pm EDT. Race is long over, I ended up reading about it. Sounded like a real beat down on Oracle, who then took a pass on Race 6. Excellent.


You probably know by now Oracle got _CREAMED_ on the 3rd leg, their nemesis. And you also probably know the foiling tack needs to go back to R&D for lots more work. The Oracle team looked stunned.


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## Minnewaska

JulieMor said:


> You probably know by now Oracle got _CREAMED_ on the 3rd leg, their nemesis. And you also probably know the foiling tack needs to go back to R&D for lots more work. The Oracle team looked stunned.


The YouTube replay finally loaded at 10pm EDT, so I did eventually see it. I've seen the previous races live, but was hoping to catch most on replay now, before I read the outcome. If they are all going to be delayed for 6 hrs, that's probably not going to work.

Yes, creamed is well put. It was both the poor tack and poor tactics. They should have jibed, protected the lead and just waited for ETNZ to tack first. Maybe there were just worried that ETNZ had a faster boat upwind, so they doubled down and lost the bet.


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## ScottUK

I agree the rounding did have an air of desperation. It appeared, if the graphics depict reality, that, further on, when both boats were on a port tack ETNZ was just outside of the tide line while Oracle was beating into the current. I think that could have had quite an impact.

I also thought Ken Reid was more insightful then the rest of the presenters that have called the races.


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## Omatako

So I think it has now become clear that the Oracle boat being a tad faster off the wind (if that can be truly used as a sailing term, they're never really off the wind) is not going to cut it against a boat that is significantly faster upwind.

Only great sailing and excellent tactics are going to do it but I believe OTUSA has neither. By "firing" Kostecki they now have Ben Ainslee as tactician but he seems to be a little out of sorts with Spithill. These guys have to be totally in sync.

The Barker/Davies relationship is so close it has been said that they finish each other's sentences. That's going to be hard to beat.

The score for ETNZ is now 6 wins to 1 loss. It is hard to conceptualise this going any other way.


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## JulieMor

Unless they pull out some sort of miracle to cure their overwhelming inferiority sailing upwind, Oracle doesn't stand a chance. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is over Sunday.


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## overbored

maybe the it's not the boat. change the crew to an All American crew. One that knows how to Sail a Cat and how to Match Race. Spithill can write a book on how not to defend your lead. He was so excited that he won a start that he forgot that there was only two boats in the race.


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## PaulinVictoria

I'm quite looking forward to seeing them racing off NZ next time, just surprised it's taken this long for the US to finally run out of ideas on how to ensure they win


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## SchockT

overbored said:


> maybe the it's not the boat. change the crew to an All American crew. One that knows how to Sail a Cat and how to Match Race. Spithill can write a book on how not to defend your lead. He was so excited that he won a start that he forgot that there was only two boats in the race.


Well let's hope that when the Kiwis get the deed they make a nationality rule! Go ahead and send an All American crew down to compete against All Kiwi and All Aussie teams. Be careful what you wish for though, because the All Americans might find it a humbling experience! Do you think it was an accident that so many of the Oracle team are from New Zealand and Oz?


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## Omatako

overbored said:


> maybe the it's not the boat. change the crew to an All American crew.


So you see, you should never had said that,

With Kostecki gone and Ainslee on the boat there's only 1 American aboard.

And the irony of that is the boat is way faster


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## Omatako

JulieMor said:


> Unless they pull out some sort of miracle to cure their overwhelming inferiority sailing upwind, Oracle doesn't stand a chance. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is over Sunday.


The miracle is out there and winning races.

Where did they get that extra up-wind speed from? Some legs of the last race they were doing 34 knots upwind, fully foiling.

And now we're down to real match racing.

It's not over til it's over,


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## JulieMor

In the first race Oracle won the winds were high. And Oracle did well on the 3rd leg. The next two races won by Oracle saw close to the max winds and Oracle won handily. The last race yesterday the winds dropped a bit and ETNZ won.

I don't know for sure it's just the winds and I don't know where the split lies if it is, but so far Oracle hasn't won a race when the winds weren't blowing hard (relative to the max.)


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## Minnewaska

ETNZ was ahead, at least, when the race was scrubbed on Sat for high winds.

Still, this has been a more interesting series than I expected. I still think that seeing sailors in body armor and helmets is silly, but there is enough competitiveness to make this worth watching.


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## SchockT

JulieMor said:


> In the first race Oracle won the winds were high. And Oracle did well on the 3rd leg. The next two races won by Oracle saw close to the max winds and Oracle won handily. The last race yesterday the winds dropped a bit and ETNZ won.
> 
> I don't know for sure it's just the winds and I don't know where the split lies if it is, but so far Oracle hasn't won a race when the winds weren't blowing hard (relative to the max.)


I think you are right. The pundits have said all along that Oracle is faster in more breeze. They have done some mods to their boat recently, and it would be really interesting to see if they are still competitive in the lighter stuff.

Imagine if it got REALLY light and they found themselves without a sprit to fly a code zero!


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## Omatako

SchockT said:


> Imagine if it got REALLY light and they found themselves without a sprit to fly a code zero!


You better believe they can re-install the bowsprit in less time than it needs to reach the next start line. They almost certainly are not getting enough advantage from removing it to warrant the risk of a light air race without a code zero.

As Julie said, the wind speed in the SF Bay are pretty rock solid predictable -they are very unlikely to change that significantly during one race. I would be astonished to find a code zero stowed on board along with it's continuous line furler. That's an awful lot of weight to schlep along just in case. The sail bag is probably about as big as a family sedan.


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## delite

Yesterdays races were cancelled due to the wind direction being 20-30 degrees off the preferred direction rather than windspeed being too high. When I sail the wind is often coming from a less than ideal direction but I go anyway. Seems to me this is supposed to be a test of sailing ability and to me that means dealing with less than ideal conditions. I am not a racer so can someone please explain the logic of this to me. Would it have made it impossible to complete a race within the allotted 40 minutes?


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## Minnewaska

delite said:


> .....When I sail the wind is often coming from a less than ideal direction but I go anyway. Seems to me this is supposed to be a test of sailing ability and to me that means dealing with less than ideal conditions. I am not a racer so can someone please explain the logic of this to me.....


Exactly the opposite. They only want wind that comes up and down the course, requiring tacking and jibing. They don't want ideal wind where both boats just reach up and down. It is supposed to be a test of skill.


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## Minnewaska

Great racing today for OTUSA. Wow. They simply outraced ETNZ, no other way to describe it.


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## delite

Thanks Minne I knew I had to be missing something


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## Faster

Minnewaska said:


> Great racing today for OTUSA. Wow. They simply outraced ETNZ, no other way to describe it.


Indeed... it's getting as lopsided as the earlier races when ETNZ was doing a similar job... It's getting more interesting.


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## Omatako

Faster said:


> Indeed... it's getting as lopsided as the earlier races when ETNZ was doing a similar job... It's getting more interesting.


Spithill said on TV a day or so ago "This is a long way from over".

He is proving that statement to be correct.


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