# Dishwasher & washing machine



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Just wondered whether anyone has dishwasher and washing machine on their boat?

I notice my dishwasher uses hardly any water and gets everything very clean.

Likewise for modern washing machines.


Any thoughts on what the minimum size boat that could easily handle these two appliances. e.g. would 42' to 46' work in monohull?

Anyone have or seen a boat (monohull <46') with a dishwasher and a washing machine?

Any thoughts on what boats work work well these?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

The issue for most sailboats (and most boat sin general) is not just the power draw or water consumption, it is the space the items take up. Space is a premium. My boat is over 40 feet, and I could not find a place for it.

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I hate washing dishes and I like the shiny clean you get from a dishwasher, so my next boat will need to be large enough to fit one. I have noticed there are small size dishwashers which would be adequate and take up less space.

I don't need a second head so this spaces would be spare and would have all the plumbing.


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## Mimsy (Mar 22, 2009)

I hate washing dishes as well. A few years back I was living in a tiny 1910's bungalow that did not have a dishwasher. I had one of these and loved it-
★ Countertop Dishwasher SUPERSTORE - TOP Online Specialty Store - HERE ONLY! Largest selection of table top dishwashers at discount prices

Its not much use for large pots and pans and if you are trying to clean dishes for a party of 20 you will probably end up just doing them by hand rather than keep using for the 72 hours required to run enough cycles to get it all cleaned but for day to day light stuff they are great.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

bluesky2 said:


> I hate washing dishes and I like the shiny clean you get from a dishwasher, so my next boat will need to be large enough to fit one. I have noticed there are small size dishwashers which would be adequate and take up less space.
> 
> I don't need a second toilette so this spaces would be spare and would have all the plumbing.


Be aware that even the small ones will probably take a generator. The one referenced below took 10.4 amps. That is a lot of power and diesel just to keep from washing a few dishes. I am just saying, that's all. It would probably be fine at the marina though if you could find a counter to fit it


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Power Consumption*

I am looking at a Zanussi (Electrolux) ZSF 2420.

Normal cycle:
Water: 7 Litres
Washing time with drying: 94mins
Drying time: 13 mins
Energy: 0.8Kw (800 watts) 
Fuse:13amps
Vac: 230VAC/50Hz
Heating Element: 1000w
Power rating 1080w.

So 800watts/230V=3.4Amps for 1.5 hours = 5.2 amp hours

So 5.2 amp-hours and 7 litres of water seems pretty reasonable.

The size is fine for two people and can fit pots and pans etc.


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## damies (Jul 8, 2009)

well you have ignored inverter costs, but all up I would expect it to be less than 8 amp hours (I would have trouble believing an inverter would use 2.8AH for 1.5 hours use). Still seems reasonable to me. But I wouldn't bother with the dishwasher (don't even have one at home). Anyone got details on a washing machine? That would interest me if I was living aboard.

Can you use them with salt water and only use fresh for the final rinse? Also where does your washing water go? do you need a holding tank, how big?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes Damies, you are quite right re the inverter loss, but as you say still very reasonable.

I guess the dishwasher would have to be close to the galley and at about bench height to really work well.

A dishwasher is also a good tidy and secure place to store dirty dishes, i.e. better than the sink or a drying rack. There are quite a few dishwasher brands with small size dishwashers. Probably also need a very secure closing door, though it might be possible to modify most machines . 

Have not researched washing machines, but a front-loader (use a lot less water) combined with drier would probably work best (e.g. Philco maybe, but many other brands also). (Though only use the drier in a marina, the driers heat up a lot but does not need an exit vent, i.e. can be used in closed cabinet.)

Never heard of an automatic washing machine that uses salt water?

Yes you would need a grey water holding tank, as large as possible - say to hold 10 cycles, so 70 litres for the dishwsher and another one for the washing machine.


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## Gramp34 (Oct 5, 2006)

bluesky2 said:


> I am looking at a Zanussi (Electrolux) ZSF 2420.
> 
> Normal cycle:
> Water: 7 Litres
> ...


A couple things here. First, what they are calling "Energy" should probably be watt-hours or Kw-hours, which is the right unit for energy.

Since it has a 1000 W heating element, and a power rating of 1080 W (watts is a unit of power), its complete washing/drying cycle probably totals up 800 W-h of electrical energy.

Second, amp-hours is shorthand for energy usage from batteries at 12 volts, not 230. That 800 W-h at 12 v = 800/12 = 66.7 a-h. Xantrex gives an efficiency level of 85% for their Freedom inverters, so this would mean 78.4 a-h drawn from the batteries.

It's not insurmountable, but it might be cheaper overall to invest in a little Honda portable generator and use this to power the dishwasher directly. That'll save the need for a couple hundred extra a-h of battery bank, a big inverter, a big engine alternator and a couple extra hours of main engine use every dishwasher cycle. The little generator would also charge your batteries from regular house loads for less cost than running the engine, too boot.

Tim


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Tim (Gramps34), 

you are absolutely right the normal cycle consumes 800 Watt-hours of energy over 1.5 hours. So this mean average power consumption of

800watt-hours/1.5hours=530watts.

So 530watts/12v ~ 45 amp draw.

For 1.5 hrs ~ 67.5ah and so 78 ah @ 85% efficiency.

On Eco it uses 630watt-hours (54mins), so 52.5ah @85%eff ~ 62ah

But yes, quite a lot of power to replace using an alternator, wind gen and solar. So probably need an APU or genset of some kind.

Yes it did seem too good to be true. The heating part of the cycle must consume a lot of power.

I think if guys did the washing up there would be more dishwashers on boats. In any case I think for long term live-aboard away from the marina it would be worthwhile. As would a washing machine.

So the question becomes what size boat and genset/ battery bank would be needed to comfortably generate enough energy (and water) to run this system?

I guess we could round up the required power consumption to include generating 7 litres of water as well as one run of the dishwasher a day to say 100 ah. 

A washing machine uses ~45 litres and 1000 watt-hours so 83 amp-hours.
So around 100 amp-hours.

So on average 200 ah every second day would require 100ah perday on top of other energy requirements.

So looks like running a genset or maybe the honda once a day for an hour would the only way to keep up with this sort of drain.

Thanks Tim, I forgot the constant in P=V I is the P.


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## LarryandSusanMacDonald (Apr 3, 2005)

Washing Machines? Dishwashers? On Sailboats? Lin and Larry Pardey would roll over in their graves and they're_ not even dead! _

Talk about high maintenance! Come on boys and girls, if you choose to live aboard a sailboat, or cruise aboard a sailboat, you've got to take the good with the bad. I do dishes, Saltwater Suzi does dishes. All automatic.

Clothes washer? Who needs clothes? Pair of jersey shorts and a t-shirt a day. Wash in a little water and ammonia and hang it out to dry. Good to go! Oh, alright, you have sheets and pillow cases and towels. You can do them the same way when you're cruising. And if you live aboard and work, well, drop them off at the laundromat on your way to work and pick them up on the way home. For the cost of a generator, a clothes washer / dryer and a dishwasher, and the cost of installation you can have and awful lot of laundry done for you and a lot fewer headaches in maintenance and money.

If you _really_ need that much, you need a Hatteras. They have bathtubs, too. And couches. And easy chairs. And carpets. And big screen TV's. And they only use 80 gallons an hour when traveling.

Sorry for the rant. But I really don't see that the problem is all that big, but the solution is probably worse than the problem. We've been living aboard and occasionally cruising for 12 years. And we have some amenities, like a TV and computer, a stereo, and a microwave, air conditioning (gawd, we love our air conditioning - especially on days like today - its 93 degrees tomorrow it's supposed to be 97.) We have a freezer (well, almost) and refrigerator, toaster and coffee maker, and most importantly, we're happy with what we've got.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

*http://www.compactappliance.com*

Washer Dryer Combo & Portable Washers - Haier & LG washer dryer combos on sale now

Medsailor


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## WheresTheBrakes (Sep 29, 2008)

I agree with LarryandSusanMacDonald...what else are you going to do other than goof around and read and swim etc.. is the 5 mins of "work" going to kill you ??

We travelled in a camper for almost 3 years and had a 12x12" sink, and very rarely ate out.. doing the dishes (both of them) was a part of the evening.. letting them airdry (!!!) was too, we put both plates and a couple of bowls away in the AM ! saved the 800 kwh of power for the computer and radio.. 

don't overthink it and KISS (keep it simple stupid) you won't even notice you're doing dishes !


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'll happily wash the dishes by hand just as long as I never have to listen to the Pardeys singing ever ever again. 

I'm with you guys, McDonalds . The day that a dishwasher becomes an indespensible piece of equipment on a boat is the day the we just give the lunatics the keys to the asylum and let them have at it.

I can understand the wanting , I'm as lazy as the next fella, but I cannot understand the need.

Mind you, our cruising is just me and the Wombette....maybe if we had a horde of ankle biters it might be a different story (and in cold wet climates a clothes dryer would be nice). mmmm...warm towels......whoops, sorry....need to whip over to SA and get a refresher course in HingTFU.....



LarryandSusanMacDonald said:


> Washing Machines? Dishwashers? On Sailboats? Lin and Larry Pardey would roll over in their graves and they're_ not even dead! _
> 
> Talk about high maintenance! Come on boys and girls, if you choose to live aboard a sailboat, or cruise aboard a sailboat, you've got to take the good with the bad. I do dishes, Saltwater Suzi does dishes. All automatic.
> 
> ...


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