# Taser legality



## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

Wondering if anyone knows the general international legality of having a taser, or a taser stun wand on board? In the US most states do not consider even the taser guns a firearm, and I don't think the wands are considered a firearm anywhere in the US but I could be wrong


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

When you say "general international legality" which country are you actually asking/referring to, as laws vary greatly from one to the other?


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

Will be cruising Caribbean and then the Med. I tried to find specifics for some of the EU countries but have not found anything yet


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

As for Europe, you can generally say that no type of weapon, not just guns but even pepper sprays, are not allowed anywhere. Would certainly not recommend bringing anything here, and unless you plan to visit Portugal, which is a very peaceful country, you'd feel naked with a taser anyway.


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

When clearing in to eastern Caribbean island nations, the only questions related to weapons, or potential weapons, that I've been asked are "do you have firearm(s)?" and "do you have ammunition?" Besides firearms and ammo, Bermuda asks about flare guns, and the Bahamas ask about spear guns, I believe I recall. I have never been asked about Tasers, Mace, pepper spray, machetes, etc.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I'm sure there is no international law on the subject. Every nation that you visit will have it's own laws, so you'll have to check with every country that you intend to visit.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

In Australia tazers are prohibited as is mace and pepper sprays.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Robby Barlow said:


> As for Europe, you can generally say that no type of weapon, not just guns but even pepper sprays, are not allowed anywhere. Would certainly not recommend bringing anything here, and unless you plan to visit Portugal, which is a very peaceful country, you'd feel naked with a taser anyway.


So they are prohibited in Portugal alos....

We are indeed very peacefull, unlike Spain, where they still fight over territorial and ethnic issues and other things no one else understands....and any country allowin a guy with the Name of Rooby Barlow to circulate freely, is a NO GO country...

Basically they are less evolved Europeans.

Also when the wind blows from Spain, its wet, (rain), weak (less than 10 knots), inconstant (what else to expect, its Spain)....and smelly.....

The best thing about Spain??? The border into Portugal!!!


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Sorry, but I feel compelled to ask... Why on earth would you want to take a taser with you on your cruise??


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*All those*

Brazilian Pirates...


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

Copa, I assume the reason is obvious. I was actually boarded once while crewing on a delivery in the T&C. Man entered cabin at about 3am with a knife. After I split his head with a bat there was not only a mess but he was hurt pretty bad. The small taser wand is very easy to use, non-lethal, and leaves no permanent sequele. Although I have little pitty for the thief I would rather not inflict that kind of injury if at all possible. This thread was not posted to argue the merits of self defense as I could care if some choose to be defensless


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## papazulu (Jan 11, 2008)

Ortho, minus a gun, the best defensive weapon that you could use was what you did use.A bat ,a three foot lenth of angle iron, a cut down sharpened pipe are all better than your taser idea. the reason being tasers dont always work.Then you have an expensive piece of electronics in your hand.Then what do you say to the person ,oops. Sometimes tasers could work too well and you have a dead person on your boat. The more damage you can do to your thief without getting too close to him to do you bodily harm, the safer you will be. A three foot length of anything trumps him having a knife.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> Ortho, minus a gun, the best defensive weapon that you could use was what you did use.A bat ,a three foot lenth of angle iron, a cut down sharpened pipe are all better than your taser idea. the reason being tasers dont always work


I disagree. If Tasers weren't reliable, law enforcement would be getting rid of them, not buying more. As Tasers become more mainstream and recognized by the criminal element they are apt to have a beneficial influence over the scumbag without even being discharged.

At any rate Ortho, I don't know the answer to your question but I read a thread here earlier on the international law on carrying firearms. IIRC on the high seas you can carry whatever your home government allows but once you sail into another country you had to follow their rules. Unfortuneatly, not all countries trust their citizens to have the tools to protect themselves like the U.S. does.


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## papazulu (Jan 11, 2008)

Erps, you are correct. Law enforcement agencies are using them more and more. They are more politically correct than taking some one down Rodney King style. In perfect situations they are very effective . Both barbs have to touch and hopefully pierce the skin. If the perp has a heavy jacket on , the barbs wont penetrate. The police always have a very effective fall back weapon,their sidearm. I just think that I would not count on it as my only weapon if I was in foreign areas and did not want the hassle of carrying a gun.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Ray (Erps) knows what he is talking about. I'd go with what he has to say on the subject.

John


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

Thanks for the notes. I must say the one time I was faced with an intruder the bat was quick and definitive. My idea here is now I am cruising with my wife. She is a bit of a "hottie" so that introduces risks other than getting robbed. If she ends up locking herself in say the head and someone has got past me, a taser wand as one entered the head may be all she needs in those tight quarters.
Hope no one gets me wrong here. I am not a paranoid rambo wantabe, just looking at "reasonable" easy to carry and store defense items. My hope and belief is we will cruise careful and never be bothered by such people.
One guy I crewed for years ago had his own system when sailing in the Red Sea. If he noticed a boat on a intercept course at night he would fill a pump action water gun with gasoline. As the boat approached and got close his plan was to squirt the intruder with the gas from 20 yards out. If they fired a gun bad news for them. If they tried to board he stated he would light their boat. Don't know if he ever used the plan but interesting I thought


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

papazulu said:


> Sometimes tasers could work too well and you have a dead person on your boat.


Yeah but without a bullet hole or a gaping knife/bat wound on the corpse, you could always just say "Gee officer, I guess I just scared him to death..."


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

Hey maybe his crew needs the extra motivation to raise the mainsail


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Reminds me of the guy who wants a pistol for bear protection in the mountains. The salesman tells him that he'd better file the sight off. The guy asks why and the salesman tells him, "Then when the wounded bear takes the gun away and shoves it up your a** it won't hurt as much."

Gaz


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"If Tasers weren't reliable, law enforcement would be getting rid of them, not buying more. "
PD's like them because ANYTHING beats the press conference where folks ask "Well how come you shot the suspect?". But in a number of states there are controversies over tasers. A number of taser DEATHS in Florida, where they may be banned for further police use. Deaths on young and healthy people, not just eldsters. And some incidents where tasers haven't knocked people dow.
All in all they knock people down non-lethally more often than guns do...but "reliable and safe" might be going beyond what they are known to do.

And then again, the typical police shooting seems to involve at least 50 rounds being fired, with some 90% of them hitting something or someone besides the target. At least with the taser, you reduce collateral damage.


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

Typical thief is not a bear. Some people just don't get it. Having spent many years in the military I understand when clearly out-gunned and overpowered a change in tactics is required. I believe in common sense and have no interest in trying to be Mr. Macho. Simple tactics but greater than having nothing or no plan. If you think that is delusional (the bear) I could care less. We all make our own choices


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> Having spent many years in the military I understand when clearly out-gunned and overpowered a change in tactics is required


If you said I spent many years in law enforcement, for me your argument would hold more water. Saying I played solder with another solder who has my back, and another who has his, I just don't follow.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Tasers may be reliable for terrestrial use... but most police aren't storing them in a humid boat with humid, salt-laden air. Electronics are a bit less than reliable in a marine environment.  A baseball bat or piece of angle iron generally doesn't fail or short its batteries out... 



erps said:


> I disagree. If Tasers weren't reliable, law enforcement would be getting rid of them, not buying more. As Tasers become more mainstream and recognized by the criminal element they are apt to have a beneficial influence over the scumbag without even being discharged.
> 
> At any rate Ortho, I don't know the answer to your question but I read a thread here earlier on the international law on carrying firearms. IIRC on the high seas you can carry whatever your home government allows but once you sail into another country you had to follow their rules. Unfortuneatly, not all countries trust their citizens to have the tools to protect themselves like the U.S. does.


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

my last post here as so often happens people just go off on personal attacks. Freesail should have spent some time in Nam with me before saying something so so stupid. He has no idea of my combat time and in what situations. No police officer (as a police officer) has ever faced what I have one on one or any other way. That was not the point of the question and I had no interest in defending my simple question of taser legality. If you want a new thread about self protection, combat, weapons, personal training, the ability and experience to kill or be killed, bring it on freesail. Oh, wait, until you get shot down in an enemy jungle and spend several weeks as the hunted fighting your way our then we will talk, otherwise I will just go on making my own personal protection desicsions


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

orthomartin said:


> my last post here as so often happens people just go off on personal attacks. Freesail should have spent some time in Nam with me before saying something so so stupid. He has no idea of my combat time and in what situations. No police officer (as a police officer) has ever faced what I have one on one or any other way. That was not the point of the question and I had no interest in defending my simple question of taser legality. If you want a new thread about self protection, combat, weapons, personal training, the ability and experience to kill or be killed, bring it on freesail. Oh, wait, until you get shot down in an enemy jungle and spend several weeks as the hunted fighting your way our then we will talk, otherwise I will just go on making my own personal protection desicsions


Dude, I thought the taser was for your wife, locked in the head who is a hotie ? Did I touch a nerve ? You know knowing of what I have or have not done.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Freesail99 said:


> Dude, I thought the taser was for your wife, locked in the head who is a hotie ? Did I touch a nerve ? You know knowing of what I have or have not done.


I was going to simply suggest laying off the mushrooms....


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Orthomartin,

you were in Vietnam?? Wow...I respect you, as I know some people really suffered there. 

Please don't go anywhere, ok?
we enjoy you here.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Ortho... Great question.

Up Here in Alaska Lot of us hunt and fish from our boats , needless to say , have long guns and pistols with us . Moose an bear its just too cool!

In Alaska one just needs a state drivers licence to carry consealed,
wiyh all the different laws in the US . can I keep my hunting rifles with me or will I need to put them in storage to cruise ?

And Thanks for serving.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

A gentle reminder that we are all friends here...

- CD
Moderator


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

My response to Freelsail was overkill (so to speak) so my apologies to all. Simple text can easily be misinterpreted. I agree, all friends here


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

My bear story was a joke, an old joke actually. A Tasar, or any other weapon carried for use against humans, would get you in jail here. Armed people with short tempers can do a lot of damage when they start losing an argument or miss the joke.

Gaz


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

orthomartin said:


> My response to Freelsail was overkill (so to speak) so my apologies to all. Simple text can easily be misinterpreted. I agree, all friends here


no problem, and thank you for your service.

Dad was in Vietnam. You can see a pic of him here (the Tayana thread). 3 purple hearts, 1 bronze star of valor, my sister named after a helicopter that saved his life, and a lot of other medals and stories he will never tell. He would probably get upset me writing it, but I will anyways. Tough time, and thank you.

- CD


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Your sister is named Huey??


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Your sister is named Huey??


HAHA! That was funny!!!! Better Huey than Chinook, I guess!!

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Taser*

I would suggest written correspondence to the embassies of the countries to which you intend to travel. At least you would have something in black and white to show the authorities when they drag you off to jail. Please ensure that you have copies of all that material with a friend back in the states for corroboration.

Good luck.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I dunno, CD, she sounds pretty lucky not to have been called "Jolly Green Giant".<G>


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> But in a number of states there are controversies over tasers. A number of taser DEATHS in Florida, where they may be banned for further police use. Deaths on young and healthy people, not just eldsters


From one of several studies on Tasers:

"None of the autopsy reports ruled or suggested that the Taser was a primary cause of any death."

http://www.taser.com/research/statistics/Documents/Madison WI TASER Report 2 05.pdf



> And then again, the typical police shooting seems to involve at least 50 rounds being fired, with some 90% of them hitting something or someone besides the target. At least with the taser, you reduce collateral damage.


That sounds like a gross exageration to me.

From: http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/ForceScience/articles/117909/

With LAC shootings involving only one officer, an average of 3.59 police rounds were fired. When 2 officers got involved, the average jumped to 4.98 rounds and with 3 officers or more to 6.48.

Tasers are a tool that pretty much delivers as advertised. I'm sure Ortho did his homework in tool selection. BTW, that was an interesting idea on using gasoline in a supersoaker.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Taser*

I would not recommend a taser under those conditions. I have thirty plus years of experience in the world of security and terrorism, and I believe that your use of the taser would simply result in more harm than good. At best, you would only disable one adversary. In the most likely scenario, you would face a boat load of desperate, angry armed men who would be REALLY pissed off if you zapped one of their group with your little taser. With all due respect to the taser, I think it best suited for one on one confrontations.

If you want to play hard ball, you might rig a scuba tank or two into a five gallon gas tank. You could spray your adversary with the gas, and "light their fire".. Work up the hardware carefully, and practice a few times. You won't get a second chance to get it right. Remember, your enemy will probably outnumber you and may have superior weaponry, such as AK 47 and RPG ordnance. Your principal advantage would be the element of surprise. If you are not physically and mentally prepared to kill every one of them, don't even think about any approach other than surrender.

If you are questioned by authorities before or afterwards, it is easy to explain the presence of scuba gear and gas tanks on a boat.

Good luck.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Hey CD..now I know why your name is Two Dogs Screwing...your Dad and his naming his kids after things he saw...

That makes sense!!!


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

This is getting hilarious. Where are you thinking of cruising, Khandahar? You can't be serious. On the other hand your improvised flame thrower might make great cocktail chatter on the docks. Imagine the shock and awe of fellow cruisers. They'll all want to sail in your flotilla.

Gaz


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*taser*

If we are just talking U.S., I would recommend a nice 12 ga. pump shotgun. Clean the piece regularly, and practice, practice, practice. "Sure, officer, that is for duck hunting!" When your opponent sees that iron, and hears the "clunk-chunk" when you chamber a round, he is going to become very polite. Maybe even change his agenda. Taser is not the answer; neither is pepper spray.

It really is a shame that we have to speak of such things, but our society dictates that we must take reasonable action to protect ourselves. Just for the record, I don't advocate taking ordnance on board, but if you are going to play the game, make sure you are on the winning team.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Taser*

I was thinking of hooking up one of these for my next cruise off Sudan...Did you see where a bunch of the locals in a motor launch attacked a huge "Love Boat"? The bad guys were driven off by high tech toys not available to the average sailor....but not until after they hit the ship with RPG rounds.... Our average gentle reader would probably not have to endure such conditions in a cruise in the Maritimes, Georgian Bay, or the San Juans....Heavens, though; I don't know what to expect if the Canadians don't do better in the next olympic hockey games. Mr. Cherry may incite the fans to untold levels of violence.


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## papazulu (Jan 11, 2008)

Guys , good points all. Most Police involved shootings involve distances of approx. 10 feet. between perp and cop. On a boat the distances are going to be that or less. Iwould not want a perp to get that close with or without a knife. And having to rely on only a taser which has one or two shots and may or may not work or be effective. Personally the Wife and I carry a 20 guage front break stainless shotgun.Easy for the wife to shoot,load and unload


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

This is pretty interesting...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/050406_firelauncher.htm








Wouldn't want to be the guy firing this! Check out additional pix on the link!


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have a german flare gun with an insert. I have never used the insert.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree with the thought that a tazer is not the way to go.
Remember.. You are probably dealing with a person or more likely persons that do this for a "living".
The best alternative is to not go where this can happen to you.
You and your tazer against 3 or 4 probably armed men who have surprised you at night by boarding your boat is probably not going to have the result you wanted.
Get a four legged alarm system. A good dog sleeping on deck would give you advance warning and most amateur thieves would probably reconsider.
If a pro wants you or your wife or your boat and valuables, they will just shoot / knife you and take what they want. Remeber that the value system that most of us have does not apply, especially when you have a 100K boat and the thief made $100.00 last month if that.
A ball bat is a great equalizer one on one but it can also be like the old joke about taking a knife to a gun fight.
Flip side:
Personally if I was sailing in an area where I was worried, Me and Smith and Wesson would be ready for an intruder. The lump under the pillow can be reassuring. I would rather have to go to jail or court than be pushing up daisies.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Your Pogo quote is very apropos.

Gaz


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Ray, most cops never fire their weapon during their service. In fact, it it wasn't for the annual firearms training many of them have to do, many of them would never fire it. The problem is...many of them unload the entire weapon, somewhat in haste, at the same time as their friends on the scene. OK, 50 is an exaggeration. Last year I heard about three cops who chased a perp out of a bar at 3AM, fired 37 shots and managed only to hit him in the leg a couple of times. Still, they missed him 90% of the time.
Collateral damage is a real issue, and a very good reason not to use flammables below decks in a boat, too. Gasoline will dissolve a super-soaker, it is a great solvent and they are just plastics glued together. Ooopsie, it will all slag down into the bilge rather quickly.
A dog, a taser...two guys with machetes who are very comfortable with using them, and you're just going to piss them off if you don't STOP them completely the first time around.
That's why some of us would argue carrying a gun. Not pulling it unless you plan to use it, and if you have to use it, putting the intruder down hard and fast. A little hard on the intruder, sure, but the safest way to end that problem and protect yourself. Hey, it was their choice. 
I'd be more concerned about the damned local gendarmes getting upset about the gun and body, than about the former criminal.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Erps-

I'd take the report on Taser lethality with a big grain of salt, given who sponsored that particular study...


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You could have bare wire life lines that are hooked up to an electric fence charger. 
Just think of the zap the perp would get. Especially if one of his feet is in the wet bilge of his small pirogue. 
Watched a cousin piddle on a fence one time. He found out real fast that it was an electric fence.  Nothing like learning from other's mistakes.  
Just remember when the power is on... or you will  know how a perp would feel. Better yet, go to a farm and touch an electric fence  and decide for yourself as to whether it would be a good deterrent or not.


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

The question wasn't whether a Taser is a good method of self defense, but rather if it was legal or not! 
I think, if you're gonna shoot/kill somebody, there's no better place than a boat to do it, as you can easily chuck the dead body overboard and be rid off it. 
But then again, easy disposal of the 'dead weight' doesn't make it more legal or acceptable. But then again I live in Europe!


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

I still can't figure out how my old boat would offer any protection or why it would be illegal:  http://www.tasar.org.uk/


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

For me personally, a Taser most likely will not be in my list of cruising equipment when we shove off. That said, the OP sounds like he was interested in one for his situation. They are a tool that have been in service now for a while and for the most part, they work as advertised.



> Ray, most cops never fire their weapon during their service. In fact, it it wasn't for the annual firearms training many of them have to do, many of them would never fire it. The problem is...many of them unload the entire weapon, somewhat in haste, at the same time as their friends on the scene. *OK, 50 is an exaggeration*.


HelloSailor, I'm in my 23rd year in law enforcement and I'm a firearms instructor. I thought one of your statements earlier was an exaggeration and I said so.



> I'd take the report on Taser lethality with a big grain of salt, given who sponsored that particular study...


Sailingdog, departments in our area require the officer to take a hit from a taser themselves as part of the qualification process. They are safe and their big selling point is that officer and suspect injuries go down when they are used over other "less than lethal" tools. Officer candidates are getting harder and harder to come by. Not good business to be shooting your officers with dangerous weapons.

The typical taser uses aren't the stories that make the news though. Take some nut under the influence of drugs who is non-compliant, fights the police, gets subdued with a taser, restrained and put in the back of the cruiser and then he quits breathing or his heart stops. These types of deaths happen. From what I've learned, it's not the taser. The same deaths were occuring in cases where the suspect was swarmed and subdued.

And regarding your previous comment about them not being reliable in a marine environment, I don't know the answer to that one off the top of my head. Washington is known for our rain/drizzel and the fellows who carry them here don't have them wrapped up in a waterproof bag. If that is a real problem and the OP still is leaning in that direction he could certainly store it in a reasonably priced pelican case.

The OP was concerned about getting an intruder off the boat without injuring him. He addressed a specific circumstance and chose a good tool for that circumstance. From the background he gave on himself, I would trust his judgement on applying the right tool for the particular set of circumstances.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Boasun said:


> You could have bare wire life lines that are hooked up to an electric fence charger.
> Just think of the zap the perp would get. Especially if one of his feet is in the wet bilge of his small pirogue.
> Watched a cousin piddle on a fence one time. He found out real fast that it was an electric fence.  Nothing like learning from other's mistakes.
> Just remember when the power is on... or you will  know how a perp would feel. Better yet, go to a farm and touch an electric fence  and decide for yourself as to whether it would be a good deterrent or not.


Would this actually work ? I once designed a 12v lighting system that used exposed cable to carry the current and by mistake the wire supplied for the prototype was stainless. Stainless is such a poor conductor of electricity that over a 2.5 metre run the voltage dropped from 14 to 2.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Wombat, there's a big difference between voltage losses in a 12VDC system and voltage losses in a 20,000-50,000 VAC system as an electric livestock fence uses.

And, at least in several states in the US, the courts have ruled that you can't electrocute car thieves, burglars, and other trespassers. They'll own you and the boat if you rig a charge. And if you don't kill them, odds are you'll piss them off and they'll sink the boat before they realize they can quickly own it. (I don't agree with it, but that's the laws here.)


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

If you post signs in several know languages that are in your area may keep the Gendarmes off of your back. 
What we need to do is check with the local District Attorney on this.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Boasun said:


> You could have bare wire life lines that are hooked up to an electric fence charger.
> Just think of the zap the perp would get. Especially if one of his feet is in the wet bilge of his small pirogue.
> Watched a cousin piddle on a fence one time. He found out real fast that it was an electric fence.  Nothing like learning from other's mistakes.
> Just remember when the power is on... or you will  know how a perp would feel. Better yet, go to a farm and touch an electric fence  and decide for yourself as to whether it would be a good deterrent or not.


I think the issue would be most likely the owner of such that writes his own Darwin award because they are too plastered from a night at the local marina bar and kinda forget such protection is activated....Then the one time a storm hits and the marina folks are trying to keep your boat proper and ... its just not a wise idea for the "electric fence"....There are better ways to limit and prevent access into a boat - if a thief wants in they will find the way...Most kids trying to "score" will not spend hours on end trying to get in....

A taser seems to be all the rage ...but 9/10 most are caught unaware and without constant immediate threat...usually out of range as a protection device...


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

I think the gasoline ideas would work. I know if I were boarding someones boat and they set their selves on fire, I would sure leave in a hurry.
DD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*cruising defensive weapons*

My husband wants to get a paintball gun. They can hurt and leave evidence on the perp. And legal everywhere.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

If you're thinkin' a paint ball gun, might check to see if those pepperspray balls are compatible. They hurt, they shut the perp's eyes and you could pitch them over the side if it looked the authorities were going to get involved. (the pepper balls, not the perps)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hitting an armed intruder with a paintball is a good way to get hurt or killed. Escalation is generally a bad idea. If you can't prevent them from boarding the boat...then you've basically lost.


captainlin said:


> My husband wants to get a paintball gun. They can hurt and leave evidence on the perp. And legal everywhere.


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