# Full Circle



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Glad to be here. 
After buying my first 15' boat in the 1970s, I followed the normal path of going larger (and smaller) over the years. My last was a S&S designed Hughes 40 that my wife and I cruised and lived aboard.
That was 30 years ago and large boats are out of my system. I miss sailing and the most fun I had was with my smallest boats. I picked up a 14' flush decked 14' American Fiberglass T42 that I'll be modifying for Atlantic open bay use over the winter. 
I hope to be on the water again next spring.
Bruce


----------



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Cool boat! Is that a pop up cabin? 

I have a Petrel 12 I built a boom tent, and galley box for solo cruising.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

That sounds like an interesting project. The boat appears to be a T for 2 Micro Tonner. Its pretty wild to see a 14 footer with a bow-rail and solid life lines. She was designed during the short period when the IOR gave a big credit for centerboards and a bunch of dagger board boats showed up in major races. I did not realize that the T for2 actually had been built with bilgeboards. I wonder if the boards were the same as those on the Aquacat. 

Have you sailed the boat yet? The design looks like it would be a bit of a handful having such as narrow waterline beam, no ballast, a generous sail plan and no way to hike out. 

Jeff


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Interesting boat, you gotta report back how she sails.


----------



## blew1000 (Aug 18, 2013)

In the yacht club where I learned to sail 55 years ago, they had a cartoon on the wall, went something like this: Guy standing next to a daysailer says to the guy next to the 22-footer, "I'm interested in stepping up -- any chance you're interested in selling?" The next boat over, maybe 35', guy is saying to the 45'-footer "I hear you got a new boat, interested in selling?" Then there's a monster boat, loaded with all the goodies, captain is saying to guy on the dock, "I'm thinking of selling and going back to a dinghy, have some fun!" My childhood club is long gone (they got tired of dredging and let the harbor silt up, tore down the building). I tried to track down the cartoon, and found one guy who remembered it, but no one knows what happened to it.


----------



## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

NEW DACRON MAINSAIL - boat parts - by owner - marine sale


MADE FOR A: T FOUR TWO MICRO-TONER A 14 FOOT SAILBOAT MADE ON THE EAST COAST 17' LUFF, 18' LEECH,...



seattle.craigslist.org





No personal interest - just saw this when browsing stuff for my boat.


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Arcb said:


> Cool boat! Is that a pop up cabin?
> 
> I have a Petrel 12 I built a boom tent, and galley box for solo cruising.


It came with the original canvas enclosure but I won't be using it. I intend to use it for day sailing only.


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Arcb said:


> Cool boat! Is that a pop up cabin?
> 
> I have a Petrel 12 I built a boom tent, and galley box for solo cruising.


They had a canvas tent that fit between the open hatches. Cruising is not my intent so the space below deck will be used to store sails and gear. I was attracted by the flush deck.


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Jeff_H said:


> That sounds like an interesting project. The boat appears to be a T for 2 Micro Tonner. Its pretty wild to see a 14 footer with a bow-rail and solid life lines. She was designed during the short period when the IOR gave a big credit for centerboards and a bunch of dagger board boats showed up in major races. I did not realize that the T for2 actually had been built with bilgeboards. I wonder if the boards were the same as those on the Aquacat.
> 
> Have you sailed the boat yet? The design looks like it would be a bit of a handful having such as narrow waterline beam, no ballast, a generous sail plan and no way to hike out.
> 
> Jeff





Jeff_H said:


> That sounds like an interesting project. The boat appears to be a T for 2 Micro Tonner. Its pretty wild to see a 14 footer with a bow-rail and solid life lines. She was designed during the short period when the IOR gave a big credit for centerboards and a bunch of dagger board boats showed up in major races. I did not realize that the T for2 actually had been built with bilgeboards. I wonder if the boards were the same as those on the Aquacat.
> 
> Have you sailed the boat yet? The design looks like it would be a bit of a handful having such as narrow waterline beam, no ballast, a generous sail plan and no way to hike out.
> 
> Jeff


Hi Jeff. I'm not certain about this but I think the logic for the teardrop design might have been to move the major horizontal portion of the underbody rearward to create lift. The current America's Cup boats are using the same idea, albeit quite differently design wise. How this works on a boat with a 13' waterline remains to be seen.
My research indicates American Fiberglass added 175 lbs. of sand ballast between the daggerboards. The boat's factory capsize ratio is close to 3 so the sand will need to be replaced with something heavier for local sailing in the bays around Hilton Head and St. Helena islands. 
I also enjoy the challenge of rough weather sailing so ballast, standing rigging and deck hardware all need to be assessed.
I plan to try the boat out in calm conditions before making any modifications as soon as the State says my hull numbers are OK and I get the 2hp motor looked at. I'll report back with any tracking or tenderness issues.


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

danvon said:


> NEW DACRON MAINSAIL - boat parts - by owner - marine sale
> 
> 
> MADE FOR A: T FOUR TWO MICRO-TONER A 14 FOOT SAILBOAT MADE ON THE EAST COAST 17' LUFF, 18' LEECH,...
> ...


Thanks. This boat came with 2 sets of sails. A spinaker might be nice tho😁


----------



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Cool, should be a fun day sailer.

I found a couple of brochures on line after you posted that got my interest. Very interesting design. Apparently intended as a 14 ft racer cruiser.

I have attached a couple of screen shots of the brochures. Designed with a double berth, head and galley.

No doubt the purpose of the bilge boards was to make the double berth possible. By moving the boards outboard, it eliminates the centreboard trunk and vastly improves usable space in the accommodations.


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Arcb said:


> Cool, should be a fun day sailer.
> 
> I found a couple of brochures on line after you posted that got my interest. Very interesting design. Apparently intended as a 14 ft racer cruiser.
> 
> ...


I am beginning to understand how this forum works... scrolling through the ads seems to be the way to not get lost. 
Arcb, your description seems to be right on about the layout. They advertised the dinette, head and galley but I have no idea where they would have put it all. The ads show the head in the cockpit and mentioned that it can be stowed below when sailing but I think all that stuff was wishful thinking. There is room to lay down but that's about all. My CAD drawing of the interior shows the room inside. The hatches on the forward bulkhead and the center of the sole are those I plan to add. Ballast is between the two wooden hatch covers and the rectangular hatch is large enough to clear out the sand and place and move around lead blocks.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

LeftAngle said:


> Hi Jeff. I'm not certain about this but I think the logic for the teardrop design might have been to move the major horizontal portion of the underbody rearward to create lift. The current America's Cup boats are using the same idea, albeit quite differently design wise. How this works on a boat with a 13' waterline remains to be seen.
> My research indicates American Fiberglass added 175 lbs. of sand ballast between the daggerboards. The boat's factory capsize ratio is close to 3 so the sand will need to be replaced with something heavier for local sailing in the bays around Hilton Head and St. Helena islands.
> I also enjoy the challenge of rough weather sailing so ballast, standing rigging and deck hardware all need to be assessed.
> I plan to try the boat out in calm conditions before making any modifications as soon as the State says my hull numbers are OK and I get the 2hp motor looked at. I'll report back with any tracking or tenderness issues.


The hull form on the T for 2 is a typical IOR era rule beater hull form. The 'Ton' in 'Micro Tonner' (and in Quarter-Tonner referred to in the brochure) were rating brackets within the IOR Rule. The IOR rating rule was a measurement rule used in the 1970's through the early 1990's. Typical of most measurement rules, boats designed to the beat the rule typically had hull forms and rigs that were distorted to make the boat appear to perform worse than they actually did in real life. Since the IOR rule tended to over penalize stability, IOR boats tended to be light on ballast and form stability. The short period during which this boat was designed was also a period that gave an major advantage to centerboard boats and so there were a flurry of centerboard IOR boats built, before the rule was changed making them obsolete as race boats.

Probably the most famous and successful of these IOR centerboard boats (and the ones that got the rule changed) was Mr. JumpA and her sisterships. They were outrageously fast but real handfuls in a breeze.

Mr. JumpA [Dagger board down]
]

Mr. JumpA racing

[]
Mr. JumpA racing under chute 
,

Mr. JumpA keel retracted 
,
Hull form wise, IOR hulls are the antithesis of a hull form intended to "move the major horizontal portion of the underbody rearward to create lift." The measurement pointsdriven pinched ends on IOR hull forms forced them into being very much displacement type hulls with very little bearing aft. In order to support the weight of two adults in a 14 foot boat, the center of buoyancy is pretty far aft. but there would be very little to no dynamic lift.

I would suggest that you be very careful when you start sailing the boat since there is a lot of sail area for its weight and apparent stability, and unlike most dinghies, the stern rails will prevent you from being able to hike out and keep her on her feet. I will note that the hull form is so shallow that lead ballast in that hatch probably won't add much in the way of stability.

Jeff


----------



## LeftAngle (Nov 8, 2020)

Jeff_H said:


> The hull form on the T for 2 is a typical IOR era rule beater hull form. The 'Ton' in 'Micro Tonner' (and in Quarter-Tonner referred to in the brochure) were rating brackets within the IOR Rule. The IOR rating rule was a measurement rule used in the 1970's through the early 1990's. Typical of most measurement rules, boats designed to the beat the rule typically had hull forms and rigs that were distorted to make the boat appear to perform worse than they actually did in real life. Since the IOR rule tended to over penalize stability, IOR boats tended to be light on ballast and form stability. The short period during which this boat was designed was also a period that gave an major advantage to centerboard boats and so there were a flurry of centerboard IOR boats built, before the rule was changed making them obsolete as race boats.
> 
> Probably the most famous and successful of these IOR centerboard boats (and the ones that got the rule changed) was Mr. JumpA and her sisterships. They were outrageously fast but real handfuls in a breeze.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that information Jeff. That's a lot of data I need to ingest. I know the boat will be tender and the PO never took it out in anything but light weather. I will certainly be overly cautious until I know its attributes. 
Bruce


----------

