# Chartplotter Vs Ipad Vs PC



## deandavis1 (Dec 1, 2009)

While I would love radar for now I cant afford it so I'm looking at my chartplotter options. I already own a PC and have a USB GPS head, but from what I can see the best option is to buy an iPad with Navionics HD. 

Given the three options the navigation ability seems to be there with each option so this is really based on value for money. Is my logic sound with the following:

1. Chartplotter (min $1500)
Pros - best in a marine environment, future radar, possible to get integrate with instruments and autopilot.
Con - Most expensive and technology changing.

2. PC (min $700)
Pro - cheapest option utilising existing hardware
Con - have to buy charts and program at almost the cost of other hardware options. Some NMEA integration with extra $400 hardware box. Daylight readability is average. Interface and physical set up the worst.

3. iPad (min $900)
Pro - I get the added benefit of owning/using an iPad. Navionics HD maps and low cost application. Great interface with future expansion. Some N2K interfacing later with things like iNavX (and hopefully Navionics future versions ;o) ). Other applications like Anchor alarm.

Con - Worried about it falling in the water. No future Radar integration. A little worried if it actually shows all the information required.

What do other people think?


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## oceanscapt (Aug 1, 2009)

The only choice as far as I'm concerned = PC


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

I think it may depend on what you are planning on doing. I don't know what you are sailing or where. The nicest thing IMO about a chartplotter is that it can usually be viewed from the cockpit without worrying about exposing a PC or iPad to the elements. Granted, a laptop or notebook PC can be had pretty cheap, particularly used so you may just look at that as a consumable item.

Do you want the chart plotter for planning, or for navigation while actually sailing?

Dave


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

You didn't say where you sail and what kind of sailing you do (day-sailing cruising racing). But as far as I am concerned there is no option for a first choice. I recommend a chart-plotter. They are weather proof and pretty hardened for sailing. The PC/iPad options make plenty of sense as a backup or a 2nd item. Neither is waterproof and really intended for a cockpit use. While they might be fine for a nice sunny afternoon, I wonder about how they would be in a squall etc. 

I sail the Chesapeake Bay and it has excellent wireless connection (my verizon cell works every place I have tried it, I don't know about ATT for the iPad).


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## patrickstickler (Dec 2, 2008)

deandavis1 said:


> 1. Chartplotter (min $1500)


Not sure how you come up with $1500 as a minimum (unless you are only considering e.g. 12" touch screen models, etc.) but you can get decent and perfectly workable 5" chartplotters for less than a third of that.

Quick look at amazon.com


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## CapTim (Aug 18, 2009)

Keep in mind that the IPad isn't a standalone machine.. you can't update it w/o plugging it into a real computer. So if you don't already have a PC/Mac that you can use to download/install updates into your Ipad, that option would be off the table.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

mccary said:


> .. I recommend a chart-plotter. They are weather proof and pretty hardened for sailing....


Sailing solo and coming to a unknown shore, try to plot a course to a nearby marina, while struggling with the boat on bad seas and high winds, with water flying all around. That's when you are going to need it most.

No way, a PC is a back up tool unless you have a crew with a guy inside doing the navigation and even so you should have a back up Pc because they tend to be very fragile machines on muscular and humid conditions.

Regards

Paulo


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## donradclife (May 19, 2007)

Chartplotter--$700 including charts

Netbook--$300, charts and program free, USB GPB $30, interface to NMEA $25.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Chartplotter, although we don't have one (yet) would be my first choice, with the PC as a alternative/back up. Chartplotter uses less power, is weather resistant, and easily interfaces with other electronics


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## SVlagniappe (Jun 22, 2008)

CapTim said:


> Keep in mind that the IPad isn't a standalone machine.. you can't update it w/o plugging it into a real computer. So if you don't already have a PC/Mac that you can use to download/install updates into your Ipad, that option would be off the table.


No need for a PC or a mac. You can download everything your need through the iPad. You'll need the 3G model. That said, mine's a backup to my chartplotter.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

I don't have the need at this point, but if I did I think that I would want to go with a mini/micro ATX/ITX PC in a sealed, fanless enclosure mounted below and run one or more waterproof USB touchscreens to the station(s) where I needed them.

Then I'd use what is my current primary solution, a handheld Garmin GPS that supports marine charts and NMEA input, as my backup.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Dedicated plotter*

Hey,

As mentioned, you didn't list any requirements for things like screen size, communication / out, sailing area, etc.

For me personally, there is no way I would use a device like an IPAD. Things like water sealing, screen visibility (direct sunlight, twilight, and total darkness), connectivity, power, etc. are all very important to me. At a minimum, I want my GPS connected to my VHF for DSC mayday type signaling. I don't believe the IPAD would meet my needs.

I don't know where you got your pricing information, but you are way off. You can get a basic GPS system, with 5" color screen and detailed charts for under $400 (Standard Horizon CP 180). If you want a unit that could be upgraded to display RADAR, SONAR, video, you can get one for under $750 (Lowrance HDS 5).

IMHO, for a plotter to be useful:

 it must be mounted at the helm (and waterproof)
It must run off of the boat's electrical system so the batteries won't be dead at an inopportune time
GPS data can is sent to the ship DSC VHF radio
Imaging arriving at a new port with a tricky approach including a number of different bouys, shoals, and marine traffic. You arrive after a fairly long sail, say 8-10 hours. There are commercial ferry's and fishing boats arriving and departing. It starts to rain. How are you going to use an IPAD in those circumstances? While I'm sure it can be done (of course it can be done with paper charts alone), I would be much more comfortable with a dedicated plotter mounted at the helm.

Barry


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Charts are free from the feds and you can get free nav software too. SeaClear & OpenCPN..... Still trying to figure out the added benefit of owning/using an iPad but, that's just me.... You can get a netbook or an older laptop and put free software on it, download the charts for free, and plug your GPS in via USB and there ya go. You can also get a glare shield for the laptop screen. As others have said though, a laptop is very particular about its operating environment... as would any other solution besides the dedicated chartplotter. Amazon also has a free download of Kindle for the PC.... My 2 cents....


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

cb32863 said:


> , a laptop is very particular about its operating environment... as would any other solution besides the dedicated chartplotter


A setup like I mentioned above would not be very particular. If you are careful about the way you do your peripheral connections it could be entirely submersible, in fact. You could put the cpu in the bilge to aid with cooling. ;-)


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## CapTim (Aug 18, 2009)

Can you download system updates to your ipad?


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

Until you are ready to make a decision on the radar I'd go with a handheld chartplotter. I picked up a garmin Oregon 400c at West Marine for $299 a few months back. It's preloaded with every US coastal chart. The preloaded units are the best deals IMHO.


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## deandavis1 (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks for everyone's reply. I picked up an iPad today. Haven't had time to play with it because of install on the autopilot. I should have said that most of my sailing will be on the east coast of Australia and all my covers are just about finished on top. So hopefully weather will not be a big problem.

I did plug it in to iTunes. I already had Navionics on my iphone so it loaded the low res version on the ipad right away and gave me a message that Navionics has just released a new program available at half price now.... no more information at the moment....

BTW the yacht is a cruiser 45DS Jeanneau new.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

iPad is not there yet, but I would not underestimate the potential of iPad. The third party applications and accessories will grow exponentially. iPad will certainly keep chart plotter manufactures on their toes.


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

Doesn't an iPad still use cell phone connectivity which only has a limit of about 2 miles from shore?


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

Even with the iPad, I'd get a real marine chart plotter. It doesn't have to be expensive. I've used a small Garmin for years and it is very good. A quick ebay search gave this as an example of something you can pick up used.

Dave


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Having a PC or chartplotter for planning a trip is great...if your intent is to use one as the primary tool to navigate your boat, then my opinion is you are likely to run aground. It is a wonderful benefit to have GPS that can confirm heading and distances, but if you plot your courses on it...well good luck.

That's what paper charts are good for, and necessary for. There are several threads on the board started by former boat-owners who attempted to navigate their boats only by their GPS...maybe the high end chartplotters can substitute for paper...I personally haven't used them.


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## donradclife (May 19, 2007)

Sigh--You still get the occasional Neanderthal who thinks that they will never make a mistake plotting on a paper chart in a narrow channel after being up 36 hours straight in heavy weather. They also like to carry around 500 pounds of paper at $100/lb.


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

As I type this, I'm looking in the left margin of this page, and there's a Standard CP1801 5" color screen chartplotter for $394.10. 

I've seen the apps for the ipad/iphone, and they're amazing. I don't think I'd rely on one as a primary tool, but as a backup, they would be awesome. The ipad has a gps driven moving map display with composite radar overaly. Not sure how accurate for navigation, but a cool weather tool.


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## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

I have a Furuno GP37 for a GPS and use the nmea 0183 output to a toughbook pc running seaclear as my primary navigation device. It works great! As someon mentioned above, it is just as easy to make a mistake plotting a course using a paper chart as it is when using a GPS chartplotter.
Does anyone really use only paper charts and sextant anymore?


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

CapTim said:


> Keep in mind that the IPad isn't a standalone machine.. you can't update it w/o plugging it into a real computer. So if you don't already have a PC/Mac that you can use to download/install updates into your Ipad, that option would be off the table.


Not sure where you get that idea. You do need wifi access or a data plan but you don't need to physically connect to anything to get updates on an iPad.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

remetau said:


> Doesn't an iPad still use cell phone connectivity which only has a limit of about 2 miles from shore?


The 3G versions have a GPS chipset that can display position w/o cell service/data plan. It does suck that the mapping that comes with the iPad will not display a position UNLESS you have a data plan.

I have an aviation chart app, that displays, position heading, speed and altitude on my iPad with no expensive data plan, but the road map app that came on the iPad can't do the same. That's BS.

I bought the iPad as an Electronic Flight Bag solution for my aviation activities. Its much cheaper and easier to keep up to date approach plates electronically. So far, I'm pretty happy with the iPad in that role. I haven't yet started to consider how it might be of use on the boat, but I heartily agree that its unlikely an iPad will ever equal the nav capablities of a dedicated, weather proofed chart plotter mounted at the helm. If the iPad finds a place on the boat it will be because of its other capablities and as a back up to the helm mounted chartplotter and possilby even the antique handheld aviation GPS I've wired into the AIS radio for position data.

If you sail in an area with good cell coverage, weather info on the iPad might be worth the cost of the data plan, depending on how you use your boat.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

deandavis1 said:


> BTW the yacht is a cruiser 45DS Jeanneau new.


You bought a "45DS Jeanneau new" and can't afford a plotter? Is there something wrong with this picture?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd have to agree with JiffyLube... you can afford a $$$$ 45DS Jeanneau NEW but aren't willing to pony up the $1000 for a decent chartplotter that will be more reliable, more likely to survive and easier to use than either the iPad or the PC, especially given that you want to get RADAR in the future.

Neither the iPad or the PC are going to be all that useful when it comes to getting radar... picking the right chartplotter will effectively reduce the cost of buying the RADAR system, since you'll have a major component of it to begin with-the multifunction display. 

*BTW, IMHO, most of the people who say they can use a PC or an iPad as a chartplotter are looking to try and justify spending the money on the iPad or PC....and want to use the excuse that it can double as a chartplotter as one of their justifications.* Neither the PC or the iPad, unless you're getting a ruggedized PC laptop like a Toughbook, is going to work in or survive the conditions on a small sailboat as a dedicated marine chartplotter or multifunction display. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.



deandavis1 said:


> Thanks for everyone's reply. I picked up an iPad today. Haven't had time to play with it because of install on the autopilot. I should have said that most of my sailing will be on the east coast of Australia and all my covers are just about finished on top. So hopefully weather will not be a big problem.
> 
> I did plug it in to iTunes. I already had Navionics on my iphone so it loaded the low res version on the ipad right away and gave me a message that Navionics has just released a new program available at half price now.... no more information at the moment....
> 
> BTW the yacht is a cruiser 45DS Jeanneau new.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Anyone who relies solely on electronics, and sails without DR skills and the paper, CALIBRATED COMPASS, stop watch and other tools necessary for DR is eventually in for a RUDE awakening someday.

I just lost FOUR GPS's, VHF, RADAR, EPIRB, NAV Lights AND my NAV COMPUTER etc. etc. on and on in a split second lightning strike three weeks ago. FOur or five members of my club were all perplexed how I was out sailing the next day? _"Didn't you loose your electronics?" _, _"Yes, but I don't need them to go sailing."_

Because I still know my DR / paper plotting I was still able to sail for the last three weeks including fog.. Sailing without traditional back up is simply un-wise..

That being said I would NEVER rely on my computer or iPad for navigation purposes. I own four dedicated chart plotters, one at the nav station, one at the helm and two plotting hand held units. Plotters are by a long shot more reliable. Wish I could say the same for my computers & phone. If I had a dime for each time they failed me I'd be retired and YES I do own BOTH Mac's and PC's and neither are imune from failure, freeze ups and hiccups. Actually my MAcbook Pro has been a huge POS so much so that I fought buying my wife an iPad. The iPad is a TOY not a device to be depended on for navigation IME...


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## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

Agree that no paper chart *backup* is a foolish thing to do.......... and sailing in the fog without radar is a bit foolhardy too


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm not advocating relying solely on electronics... 



Maine Sail said:


> Anyone who relies solely on electronics, and sails without DR skills and the paper, CALIBRATED COMPASS, stop watch and other tools necessary for DR is eventually in for a RUDE awakening someday.
> 
> I just lost FOUR GPS's, VHF, RADAR, EPIRB, NAV Lights AND my NAV COMPUTER etc. etc. on and on in a split second lightning strike three weeks ago. FOur or five members of my club were all perplexed how I was out sailing the next day? _"Didn't you loose your electronics?" _, _"Yes, but I don't need them to go sailing."_
> 
> ...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

GBurton said:


> and sailing in the fog without radar is a bit foolhardy too


Yep if you purposely set out in the fog and choose not to have it. In Maine you can set out on a perfectly sunny day and then become engulfed. Happens all the time.

This was a bank that followed me in a few weeks ago. The move quite fast..









20 minutes later same view, same camera:









That is why I have radar. Of course gear breaks, as mine did, so you need to be well prepared to survive without it. A good radar reflector reflector, fog horn and vhf can go a long way to helping you stay safe in the fog. On the other side of the coin are the HIGH percentage of recreational boaters who own a radar to "look salty" but have about zero clue about how to actually operate it. Might as well not have radar if you are going to have a false sense of security.

Was once on the vessel of a "salty" guy, full keeler, baggy wrinkles and all, who had tuned out the "clutter" which just happened to include" ISLANDS. I properly tuned his radar then he bitched the screen was to cluttered to tell what was what. "um see those moving targets, those are boats." "But there's so many?".....

Of course I put on thousands of miles in the fog well before plotters and the availability of affordable recreational marine radar as many did. If we were to stop boating in Maine every time a fog threatened us it would be about a two day season..

Edit:

Woke up to a beautifully sunny day, typed this, made oatmeal for my daughter, and looked out the window to a massive FOG BANK that moved in in about 20 minutes. Glad the radar is fixed as I am on my way to go sailing...


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## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

Have fun!


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## l_lym (Aug 15, 2004)

I like the discussion of PC (or Ipad) vs. chart plotter. Being used to a plotter and then sailing with a friend who uses a PC I'm frustrated when on watch to need to go below for a quick check. At the same time the bigger screen and using a mouse rather than multi function buttons makes the planning process a whole lot easier.

(Also bored with the discussion of electronics vs. paper as both clearly have their place in today's world)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

For planning purposes, where the 24x7 reliability isn't as much of an issue, a PC makes perfect sense. But for cockpit use, especially in heavy weather, a Chartplotter in the cockpit is far better than an iPad or PC.


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## SaltyMonkey (May 13, 2010)

Maine Sail speaks the absolute truth, and we're talking minutes. One time, I went down into the cabin to chart a plot into an anchorage and came out a minute later and it was totally fogged in. Lucky, I was charting a bearing and was able to manouver in. Another similar experience - went forward to adjust a headsail, turned around and was in fog.

I didn't have radar in that boat. I intended to always carry radar on my next one.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

I have radar overlay on our plotter, but adjusting the radar through software menus is a hassle. I think I would much rather have a stand alone radar, with knobs and switches for making the adjustments...like we used to adjust our old TV's. Another thing I don't like on overlay radar is, you can't adjust the opacity level of the overlay...it's fixed from the factory.


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## rlawton (Jul 6, 2005)

*I used an iPad with Navionics software as a chartplotter*

and was very impressed. I also had paper charts and a Garmin 76CX for backup. This was in the North Channel of Lake Huron so navigation was not really a challenge.

The only problem I encountered was the iPad shuts down in sunlight (overheats), so I had to sit it in my cabin on sunny days. I sail a Com-pac Horizon Cat (20 foot) and have the 3G version with the built-in GPS while another cruiser had the wifi only version, which required him to "jailbreak" the iPad to use a bluetooth GPS.


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## hobbits (Jul 18, 2010)

im kinda having the same problem w/chartplotters,pc,gps.i found a chartplotter/gps by lowrance for $700.00 at enlund marine the other day that has a radar plug in for later use.problem w/enlund marine is they dont post much and no prices as not allowed to but you can call the one in charleston oregon and ask for kim(its a guy)and he is their tech guy who can walk you thru this.he,s very good.541-888-6723.good luck my friend.


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## gpenn (Jul 25, 2010)

I was curious about this very subject.


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## gpenn (Jul 25, 2010)

NM the site won't link the website properly.


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## hobbits (Jul 18, 2010)

*gps chartplotters*

it seems boaters marine supply.com has some resonable prices.


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## dnoiseux (Oct 17, 2010)

*iPad waterproof case*

Just to let those of you that would chose an iPad or iPad2 but that are worried about the device not being waterproof, there are waterproof hard cases available.

Dan Noiseux


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## deandavis1 (Dec 1, 2009)

Here is an update a year after my initial post and after having the yacht for a year and about 8,000 km sailing.

1. The iPad as a chart plotter with navionics has been the best purchase ever. Only equal to the Autopilot.
2. I have never had a single problem with water and the device even in a storm but my cockpit area is well covered. I think this is the single most important point that the decision to use one should depend on the cockpit area.
3. I have never had a single problem with loss of GPS signal even in the worst storm I have been in.
4. The usability of the software with the touch screen and pinch to zoom i think is much better than navigating with keys.
5. My paper charts got wet when I accidentally left a window open and stuck together.
6. The most important thing missing for me is a radar which really requires a proprietary MFD. While I have really missed this and it has made some crossings hard I am so glad I have waited and will most likely get a small HDS screen and 3G radar. The only use of this will be for Radar.
7. The added advantage of the iPad is:
a. it controls all the music through an airport express
b. the weather forecasts with wind patterns etc have been excellent
c. through google earth the ability to navigate close to reefs (in the Whitsundays) has enabled me to get into areas I would not have been able to do.

In summary if you have a relatively inclosed cockpit and can hold off on Radar get an iPad. If not get a MFD and Ipad.

BTW the Navionics running on an Android is no where near as polished.

Hope this helps.


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## Doc Holiday (Jun 29, 2011)

Chartplotter...checkout Ebay..


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

deandavis1 said:


> Hope this helps.


It does, thanks. I have a chartplotter, but it would be nice to use an ipad for planning and backup. I have paper charts of course, but I do like redundancy (not to mention a good excuse to get an ipad on the boat).


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## ToppDogg (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks for the follow up.


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