# Canadian Discharge laws



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I just read a post elsewhere regarding the waste rules for boats visiting Canada. Here is what the website, Visitor Information - Office of Boating Safety - Design, Equipment & Boating Safety - Marine Safety - Marine Transportation - Transport Canada , says:

*Sewage Restrictions*

*Help Keep Our Waterways Clean*
There are restrictions against pumping sewage into all waters with the province of Ontario and some interior lakes of British Columbia and Manitoba. In these areas, a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge must be visibly disconnected. Sewage may only be discharged at shore pump-out facilities.
*Portable Toilets*
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.
Sounds like composting toilets, like an Airhead, are illegal.

Also, sounds like a locked Y-valve is no longer acceptable. You need to pull the hose from the thru-hull?

Looks like I'll be keeping my tourist dollars in the US this summer. I'm not fighting with the head hoses and risk having to replace them. What do coastal cruisers in Canada who have a lectrasan or who want to go offshore three miles do?


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

On our boat, it would be even more complicated than that. Not only would we have to disconnect the hose going from the y-valve to the thru-hull for direct discharge, but the requirement that



> "No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above"


would mean that we'd have to eliminate our separate system that can discharge the contents of the holding tank overboard via a macerator pump and dedicated thru-hull.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

So, a potty chair on the dive platform is out heh?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Potentially, 2 heads means disconnecting 4 hoses.
I have 2 hoses I'll have to pull.
The aft head hose is the Trident 101 which slips on and off RELATIVELY easily. But I am putting Sealand odorsafe on the forward discharge line. That hose is much more difficult and the seacock is in a very difficult spot to reach. The hose cost me over $100. The other end is at the syphon loop behind cabinetry, also difficult to reach.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

These new restrictions are for landlocked waters, and as I understand it we barely avoided such measures on the outer coasts as well. 

There was a considerable movement afoot once the intended guidelines were released a couple of years ago.. the coastal requirements have been eased considerably. The original proposals would have meant that everyone cruising the BC coast would have had to go outside Vancouver Island to get enough distance from "any shore" to empty the holding tank. I think it's been eased to 3 or 5 miles now, allowing those cruising the inside passages to at least have a chance to be in compliance.

But I expect that there's more to come in this department.


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## Pogo-2 (Jan 3, 2006)

I go to Canada several times during the summer, so I've removed all piping and the Y valve associated with direct discharge of waste from my Newport 30. The question came up as to what would happen if everything just remained in the boat and the valves were just shut off. I was told the Canadians could inpound your boat, and you could be subject to a $5000.00 fine. Sorry I don't even want to find out the answer. Its not a big deal about getting pumped out, where we go in Canada if you stay at least for 2 days they will pump you out for free.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

fast
OK, I see the Ontario & interior water designation. I'm on the Great Lakes. Looks like I'll be skipping the trips to Canada. Way too much hassle with my setup.


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## winterbuoy (Apr 8, 2007)

If this is true then I would say that almost every boat at our club is in violation of this rule. That would be about 300 boats of every size. Also the boats at the club next to us would have problems as well as I have been aboard a few of them. Is this a new rule? I have never heard around the docks of anyone being hassled as long as the Y valve is closed to the overboard side. As long as it’s locked with a cable strap from what I’ve heard. If true, it’s the stupidest rule I’ve heard and just another attack on boaters. Where we are, in West Toronto, there is a huge treatment plant about 2 miles away. Every time there is a big rain storm this plant can’t handle the amount of water and raw sewage is discharged into Lake Ontario, like thousands of gallons, I’ve seen it happen many times and the smell is very bad. Now how many boats would have to discharge that amount I wonder from just one incident?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

That's typical of the lawmakers' knee jerk reaction to environmental pressures and that fact that "yachties" are an easy target.
Victoria BC also discharges vast amounts of marginally treated sewage at a time when these kinds of rules are coming down hard on the relatively small boaters' contribution to the problem.

I think the factor that allowed the coastal regs to be eased was the lack of pumpout facilities available.. I don't think anyone really has an objection to being environmentally responsible, but the tools to comply should be readily available, and at reasonable (or no) cost (other than the equipment on board)

There are (understandably) designated no-discharge zones in popular small coves and parks - and most people do respect these especially if there are shoreside biffies available.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I have never heard of this law and I am not in compliance with it as I have a diverter valve merely pointing at "tank". I am in Toronto. Everyone knows that the Great Lakes are "no discharge" (not that this stops cities with combined storm and sewer lines from overflowing during heavy rains to the fourth or fifth power in amounts of raw poo greater than that of every holding tank in the province), but I thought that our laws mirrored those of the States due to the "common waters" situation. Unlike some areas, there are pump-outs are almost every club and marina in the area.

Trust me, I am NOT undoing my head hoses. They'll have to pry my cold, dead hands off my Henderson pump first...which is not really the way I wanted to go out in the first place!


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## winterbuoy (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm not changing my setup either, they can P**S up a rope for all I care. Stupid is as Stupid does. ( or some thing like that) :laugher :laugher


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

Well!!!!!I am just utterly appalled at the attitude of so many people to polluting the waterways! I really enjoy being able to swim in clean water off the boat and get very annoyed by people who are too lazy or cheap to go to a pump.These very same people think nothing of spending a fortune buying fancy schmanzy electronic gear for their boat but thumb their nose at the environment.Shame on you!!!!!!
Ellinor


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Keldee said:


> Well!!!!!I am just utterly appalled at the attitude of so many people to polluting the waterways! I really enjoy being able to swim in clean water off the boat and get very annoyed by people who are too lazy or cheap to go to a pump.These very same people think nothing of spending a fortune buying fancy schmanzy electronic gear for their boat but thumb their nose at the environment.Shame on you!!!!!!
> Ellinor


You are way off base.

Nobody is promoting pumping overboard where they shouldn't.

They are ranting about stupid regulations that say they need to remove hoses; when a simple method of locknig a through-hull would suffice.


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

I was once next to a boat belonging to a lawyer from Cleveland Ohio on the Erie Barge Canal and he bragged that although he had a holding tank is remains in pristine condition as he diverts every pee and poop directly overboard .I hope he is not the norm amongst my American neihbours.
Ellinor


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

He's an idiot.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Keldee said:


> a lawyer


No Comment


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Here's the law:

DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE FROM PLEASURE BOATS

I think a locked diverter would be fine. The key phrase is 4(c)- "no other means"- if the diverter is permanently closed, then there is "no other means" to discharge waste other than a pump out.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I thought the nornmal practice was to close the thru-hull and remove the lever. That has always been accepted around my area. Maybe Canada is being stricter but I would think Val and the others would know best.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Keldee said:


> ... thumb their nose at the environment.


Last couple of times I went sailing, the environment had a go at killing me and my friends. First it broke my tiller and then it tried to freeze us to death. It did its best to keep me from getting home, and just as were getting close, it turned off the lights. And don't get me started about how it keeps trying to grow on my hull. Besides, the environment poops on my deck all the time... if you can't take it, environment, don't dish it out.

Look, I like clean water too. I love to swim! And I always save my precious poo for the hungry hungry pump out pumps. But the environment -- the more you pretend that you and the environment are buddy-buddy, the more likely it is to jump out from behind a bush and maul you.

Screw the environment!

p.s. Keldee that water you love to swim in? Fish piss in it.


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## winterbuoy (Apr 8, 2007)

Exactly, I would never discharge into the Lake, only a pig would do so. But I am getting very sick of boaters getting blamed for Lake pollution, especially sailboats. They pick on us because they are either stupid, envious or jealous, or all three. You can swim beside your boat at the dock? Now I'm envious! Moving up there!


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

It is definately the best place to be.I think it beats the Bahamas!Though wouldn't have missed going there either.What the name of your boat?When will you get here?


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## winterbuoy (Apr 8, 2007)

Trying to get boat ready for trip south, can't stand winter. I have been up to your area, took the ferry and bla bla bla quite nice but as far as I know, it still snows there.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailortjk1 said:


> I thought the nornmal practice was to close the thru-hull and remove the lever. That has always been accepted around my area. Maybe Canada is being stricter but I would think Val and the others would know best.


That's the trouble. We don't (OK, I don't and I edit a newsletter from which I get a lot of information on regulatory and safety issues around the Great Lakes), and this sounds draconian, not to mention stupid, to me.

If by "visibly disconnected", they mean "routed obviously to a holding tank and not overboard", then I am in compliance and there is no problem. But "visibly disconnected" to me sounds like "pull the hose off the barb leading outside and put a cork in said hose to keep the whiff going out the vent and not into the boat".

It's crazy anyway, given that it is nearly impossible to keep the bilges so spotless that any bilge discharge is crystal clean. Not to mention that running a sailboat's exhaust frequently leaves traces of sheen on the water.

I don't own a car, and I guarantee my boating activities in total are less polluting than 1/10th of the annual output of any car. My wife and I are pretty strict about even the paints and cleaners we use, whereas I see boat detailers powerwashing loads of soap foam into the water every year.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

bljones said:


> Here's the law:
> 
> DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE FROM PLEASURE BOATS
> 
> I think a locked diverter would be fine. The key phrase is 4(c)- "no other means"- if the diverter is permanently closed, then there is "no other means" to discharge waste other than a pump out.


(c) no means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned in clause (b);

BL
When you read the other post I made that comes from the Canadian govt. I would not count on a diverter valve being acceptable

"In these areas, a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge *must be visibly disconnected*"


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Keldee said:


> Well!!!!!I am just utterly appalled at the attitude of so many people to polluting the waterways! I really enjoy being able to swim in clean water off the boat and get very annoyed by people who are too lazy or cheap to go to a pump.These very same people think nothing of spending a fortune buying fancy schmanzy electronic gear for their boat but thumb their nose at the environment.Shame on you!!!!!!
> Ellinor


Ellinor, shame on you...Where did you read that I want to dump overboard?

This current regulation sounds like the regs on Lake Champlain between NY & Vermont. You WILL get fined if you have not physically disconnected all discharge hoses from the head system. They specifically state that locking out or removing the handle is insufficient to comply on Lake Champlain.

But I'm not totally clear with the Canadian reg, so I thought I'd ask here. That's what this board is for.


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

OK OK maybe I did go overboard!I do tend to rant and rave when I get on a hobby horse.Hubby and I are a bit fanatical about it all.
An example:- we were stuck in the Tonawanda area during the oct snowstorm a couple of years ago and needed to empty the holding tank before getting the boat trucked back to Canada.All Marinas we could get to with 5ft draft had pump outs closed down.Found open but too shallow for us So, we tied to the gas dock pumped our holding tank out with a gusher bucket by bucket full and carried it in driving sleet 1/4 mile to the porta pot discharge toilet.How about that for dedication guys!!!


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

Winterbuoy
What do you mean"guite nice" it is just gorgeous.!!!??


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## winterbuoy (Apr 8, 2007)

This is a bit off topic but as you well know, anything above Hwy #7 is " Up North". Have been all over Ontario as I was raised in Toronto, that being said it is God's country up there and I love it in the summer. We are currently living in east TN at the foot of the Great Smoky Mountains and the boat is in Toronto as we live aboard there in the summer. I have to tell you this, if you've never been down to this area, it gives Ontario a run for the money and it truly is beautiful here. Americans are blessed with this fine country. And I guess you thought all Torontonians think the world stops at Woodbridge!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

xort said:


> (c) no means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned in clause (b);
> 
> BL
> When you read the other post I made that comes from the Canadian govt. I would not count on a diverter valve being acceptable
> ...


Tied and tagged or handle removed would meet the letter of the law, and, more importantly, the application of the law, at least by our local marinas. If there is no visible means to open a valve, and/or all means to open a valve are visibly disabled, then the valve is for all intents and purposes disconnected. This law has been on the books since last year, and I have not heard of a US boater getting fined or refused entry into any of our local marinas.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I thought all the regs on the great lakes were the same by international treaty. i know there are plenty of boats back and forth across Lake Ontario and I never heard of anyone pulling hoses. But maybe I just dont know.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> o, we tied to the gas dock pumped our holding tank out with a gusher bucket by bucket full and carried it in driving sleet 1/4 mile to the porta pot discharge toilet.How about that for dedication guys!!!


I admire that dedication. Two boats ago, we removed the marine head and installed a portapotty with a holding tank with around five gallon capacity. In B.C. Canada, I'd walk that thing up to the public restroom and carefully dump it down the toilet. I'm pretty sure it went down a long pipe back into the bay. But I slept good at night.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

35 years of cruising each and all of the Great Lakes and no one on the Canadian side has ever asked to see my waste system .... never even been boarded in Canadian waters. We don't have much enforcement of anything on the water up here. 
I have been boarded and inspected in Minnesota, Illiinois, Michigan, Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Virginia, North Carlona, Sout Carolina, Georgia and too damn frequently in Florida


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I haven't been boarded, but I've been "pulled over" twice around Toronto Harbour in my Zodiac. They seemed disappointed when I whipped out a bailer, a heaving line, some flares, a GPS, a VHF, the proper PFD, my 1999 PCOC card, a Harbour Licence...

Hey, just because I _look _like a Hells Angel....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

All you need is a diverter valve that is clearly marked to indicate the holding tank routing and the overboard routing. Locking your valve in the holding tank position constitutes "visibly disconnecting" the means of overboard discharge.

When the diverter valve is set to the holding tank position, the head is no longer connected to the overboard discharge - hence it is "disconnected". You can see that is it disconnected because the labels on the y valve indicate the direction of flow - so you have indeed "visibly disconnected" the overboard discharge.

So don't panic - there is no reason to start ripping out your thru-hulls in order to go cruising Georgian Bay.


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

Has anyone yet mentioned that the city of Victoria - the CAPITOL of British Columbia, dumps its seware RAW, into Juan de Fuca Strait?
So, if you pump your boat out in Victoria, it will probably go into the municipal sewage system but come straight back as raw sewage into the ocean.
Go figure...

M Murphy


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

Here is a quote from:

Facts Victoria Sewage Alliance

"Victoria pumps 130 million litres of raw sewage daily into waters just off Victoria's harbour. It is pumped into our pristine ocean through two one-meter wide pipes 60 and 65 meters under the surface by twin 1000 horsepower motors. 
*Don't currents in the Strait dilute the sewage rapidly? *

Contrary to what we've been told, the currents near the outfalls do not carry the sewage out into the Pacific; the net current at the outfall depths is east into Georgia Strait. Further, because currents change direction with the ebb and flow of the tide, a lot of the sewage either stays nearby or flows back into Georgia Strait. Also, dilution does not get rid of what's in sewage (organics, pathogens like hepatitis, heavy metals or chemicals) and therefore it doesn't prevent the long-term damage to the environment, or the waste of the energy and mineral resources carried by sewage".


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## Hobos (Jan 12, 2008)

I agree with Sailormann. As a precaution I also take the handle of the discharge valve and throw in the bottom of my tool kit.


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