# Delaware Bay/River Upper Chesapeake get together September?



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Thread update September 14, 2010; 
-Sailnet Delware Bay/River and Upper Chesapeake get together will be Saturday September 18, 2010 at Chesapeake City Anchorage Basin/Engineers Cove
-*Potluck Picnic 3:30 PM Saturday September 18, 2010 at picnic area east end of basin Rhythm is providing gas grill, if coming by road join us at the picnic.*
-Then 7:30 PM Saturday September 18, 2010 CHESAPEAKE INN RESTAURANT on the deck for drinks, dessert and appetizers.

-Basin dredge is complete including entrance, water depth 10' MLLW
-Free anchorage in basin
-Free (24hr limit) slips

So far;
Rhythmdoctor 2+
Chef2sail
WWilson 2
RockDawg
DeniseO30
Ulladh 20ft double ender red sunbrella on headsail

Colin


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

YES! you beat me to it!


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Can I drive to Chesapeake City instead?


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise, you organized the last one, I will do this one.
Rock, sail, swim, walk, fly, drive,... any mode of transportation.

We can leave the date open to just September until there is more interest.

The location may be either Delaware City or Chesapeake City, depending which end of the C&D dominates.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

cool with me ! Although I really like Essington!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

I would like to get folks within a one day sail raduis of the C&D, but Essington will be the default if only Delware River folks participate.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey feel free to join us this Saturday at the Maryland Yacht Club at 6 PM for a meeting of the Sailnetters from the upper and central Chesapeake. Over 40 people and 10 boats comming already. Some more by land.

dave


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh and Denise,

Lori and I are very interested. We'll definitely be there unless a kid's school commitment makes it totally impossible. And even it that prevents sailing down for the weekend, we'd probably be able to drive down for dinner.

If you're looking to encourage sailing in, then Sept. 4-5 (Labor Day weekend) or Sept. 18-19 have the most favorable tides for those of us who are upriver. You know how it works - every other weekend favors going downstream.

I'd love to use this as a target for our first overnight.

Have either of you stayed in Delaware City before? My friend at work says crime can be a problem there, but not sure whether they've improved in recent years. I have some Boat Show coupons for Crabby Dick's, so maybe we'll ride down and check the area out. Summit North might be another alternative in addition to Chesapeake City.

chef2sail - If it's not too late, we're going to think about driving down for dinner Saturday. I need to take some time to read through your other thread to find out what's involved. That one got in "under my radar" because it's buried so deep in the sub-forums.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Would be great to have you rhythm,,,its about 1 hr and a half from the Del Memorial Bridge to the club

Dave


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Geeze Chef it got past me too! I'm having a dock party at my boat tomorrow with a few lady friends. GRR at myself


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

We wandered down to Delaware City over the weekend and checked out Crabby Dick's. Seemed OK - not fancy, but reasonable prices and good view of the Delaware from their outdoor deck. We ate on the deck and had such a nice time that we forgot to go inside to look around.

It looked like a sleepy little town. There was a wedding reception or other private event going on in the marina. My friend at work still talks about crime concerns, and said that the marina and boats kept there are very run down. I did not see that - the marina was redone a few years ago, and there were some gorgeous large sailboats there.

Ulladh and Denise - Do you have any experience getting in and out of the "old canal"? The chart shows 1-3 feet at the entrance:








A friend at my marina said he cannot even get his little runabout in there at low tide. But he's been pushing hard to get me to buy his used dinghy, and looks for every excuse he can. Sure enough, after his little lecture on the shallow water, he said, "You need to buy my dinghy to get in there."

OTOH, the ferry to Pea Patch island seems to run at all times of the day, so there must be some water there. (Maybe I could call the ferry and ask them if they have to restrict their operating times due to the tides.)

So have you guys taken your boats in there before? Do you have a GPS track that is proven to work? Obviously if we try to "ride the tide" downriver (and up the next day) we may be hitting that canal near low tide.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've never tried to get into Delaware City by boat. some of the guys in my YC always go there on the way to the Chessy.. it's a cute little town though.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey guys, any updated plans for this September? Maybe we'll be down to the high 80s by then!  

I've got my boom sitting in my house doing some DIY repairs. The front boom sheaves fell off their shaft last Sunday, causing me to lose my reef, outhaul, and topping lift all at the same time. I was in a hurry to get it fixed, but this weather has me taking my time.

But I'm looking to better days ahead, and hopefully our first cruise with you guys in September.


----------



## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

Would like to make it.
Sail up from Lewes is a bit of a haul, 
so if we can make it, will probably drive.

Dick


----------



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

We'll try to join you as well; by boat or car depending on the tides whichever weekend is chosen.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

I have been occupied with income generating tasks for the past few weeks and have only been on the water once in the past two weeks. 

The entrance to Delaware City has been dredged, not sure what the depth is but larger sailboats don't seem to have a problem.

Any preference for early or late September. I prefer late but I am open to suggestions.

Depending on weather I will sail down riding the ebb tide at least to Wilmington so my prefered Friday sail will be 
Friday 3rd departing Essington at 8:45am
Friday 17th departing Essington at 9:00am
October 1st departing Essington at 7:15am

This is just what is easy for me the other Fridays in September will be a departure before dawn, OK but not a preference.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Summit North Marina is very nice, I stayed there once. It has a great place to eat

Summit North Marina

Aqua * Sol Restaurant

I work in Newark, so DE City, Bear, Chesapeake City are my backyard.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Depending on participation from each end of the C&D canal;
Delware City if the Delware Bay prevails.
Chesapeake City if Chesapeake Bay prevails.
Summit North if it is a tie.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Ulladh said:


> Depending on participation from each end of the C&D canal;
> Delware City if the Delware Bay prevails.
> Chesapeake City if Chesapeake Bay prevails.
> Summit North if it is a tie.


I have no opinion of my own


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

The weekend of Oct. 1 will not work for me. Sept. 3 is Labor Day weekend - not a problem for me, but might be for others. Sept. 17 weekend is also OK.

Lori has to teach lab on Friday afternoons, and is not allowed to take time off from that, so if we come by boat it will have to be down on Saturday, back on Sunday (or Labor Day, if you pick that weekend). And that will only be if conditions are right, since we're not real experienced with adverse conditions. If we can't come by boat, we'll definitely come down for dinner Friday or Saturday.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Tentatively meet-up Saturday evening September 18.
Travel time Friday or Saturday

Alternate meet-up Sunday afternoon September 19.
Travel time Saturday.

Rhythm
We can depart Essington together Saturday morning, maybe an informal race to Delaware City. Motor allowed when in the shipping channel or if we find ourselves sailing backwards.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> We can depart Essington together Saturday morning, maybe an informal race to Delaware City. Motor allowed when in the shipping channel or if we find ourselves sailing backwards.


That's great! I hope conditions are good. We still have not overnighted on the boat, and Lori will be very reluctant if we have a hot, soupy night like we've had lately. But assuming we can make it, thanks for your offer to sail together. There's safety in numbers!

However, from what I've seen of your transom design, you'd have a significant advantage sailing backwards! :laugher So the offer to let me motor is definitely appreciated. Looking over the tide tables, we should be able to ride the tide down river that day. Departure time on Sunday may be tricky, though.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Sunday return is going to be a hard slog even if the wind is in favour.
Depart Delaware City at 1 hr before sunrise (should be twilight if not overcast), will give us at least 3 hrs with the tide to between Newcastle and Wilmington then maybe 1 hr of slack. Then it will be motor or motor sail against the tide the rest of the way.

I would rather not be in the section of the river between Newcastle and Delaware City in the dark. Travel in the water between Bulkhead Shoal and Delaware is navigation by depth sounder. Travel on the NJ side of Bulkhead Shoal is in the shipping channel with shallow water both sides and a series of turns.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Will try to join in September. Delaware City is our favorite (because we can fit in there) and good facilities with restaurant. Summit North has left us stuck in the mud one too many times to bite that hook ever again. Have never tried Chesapeake City, but have heard that the entrance to Engineer's Cove is shoal (<6')

If we are the only deep draft it is not worth deciding on our preferences, but FWIW there it is.

Any more on the dredge at Delaware City or better info on Chessapeake City would be appreciated.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Delaware City basin was scheduled for dredging this summer to be completed by September 1.

I have contacted Delaware City marina for current information and transient slip availability September 17 through 19.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Just checking in!

I finally had a chance to use my new (used) sails! woo hoo! it's like having a new boat! 

Dredging? ew. 

Wayne yes Chesapeake city is my fav place to stop. but you need to hug the city docks to get in. the cove is shallow but most boats don't have problems.

Doesn't look I"m going anywhere with my boat this season. Sigh..


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

I'll do my homework whether or not I can push my boat into the basin. I'd love to anchor in there if it is reasonably doable. I'm posting a vector and raster format chart of the basin.

Any comments on the accuracy of the stated depths inside? I have herd that there is a shoal bar across the entrance. That makes sense, given the current through the ditch. The charts seem to be "silent" on that rumor though. If anyone goes in, please post the entry depths and time of day, or state of tide. I'm not likely to try it before the event and a not anxious to have the Delaware Bay SailNet contingent "hooting and howling" at me stuck in the mud during the cocktail hour.









__________________________


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

The Chesapeake anchorage basin was schedule for dredge this summer. I don't know if it is complete.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Rhythm
> ...I would rather not be in the section of the river between Newcastle and Delaware City in the dark. Travel in the water between Bulkhead Shoal and Delaware is navigation by depth sounder. Travel on the NJ side of Bulkhead Shoal is in the shipping channel with shallow water both sides and a series of turns.


Well that got me checking out the chart to see what hazards lurk there. I agree that going out in the dark is to be avoided almost anywhere that has so much shipping traffic. But when I looked at Bulkhead Shoal Channel a little closer I was a little less intimidated. I'm used to staying in the "white water" sections on the NOAA charts just to be safe, and the white is very narrow there. But if you're willing to venture into the 6-18 foot depths there is quite a bit of tacking space between the underwater dike and the 2-foot-deep shoal once you're up toward Hamburg cove. And if we're lucky enough to get SW or even W winds, we could go up river with hardly any tacking at all. And since most of the shipping traffic goes east of the island, it should be relatively clear sailing.

Of course all of this is only as good as the accuracy of the charts (and my little Garmin GPS). Are there uncharted hazards that you are aware of?

That little handheld GPS has been some of the best money I've spent. I look at it more than the depth sounder, because it shows me what's coming up instead of what's already under me.

And as far as the tide schedule, I'm finding that my own observations of the currents at the surface are consistently lagging the published schedules for Philly and Wanamaker Bridge by about 1.5-2 hours - enough so that I wrote my own customizable tide clock routine in Excel that I keep on my Blackberry. The depth sensors at Philly show that the tide peaks right at their predicted times, so the net flow of water is following the schedules. But I wonder if the surface water changes direction a little later, while the water near the bottom of the river changes direction earlier. Have you seen any hydrology studies on this? I recall reading about something like this happening on the Hudson. Bottom line, Sunday's predicted high tide of 1046 near Essington could lead to favorable currents as late as 1300 or so. But of course, we could have unfavorable currents heading out if the surface currents near Delaware City lag similarly.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Wayne! what's your draft? You didn't say. My O30 is 5ft I've never had a prob in the cove. just last year coming out at low tide I forgot to stay near the city seawall and got bogged down. You can tie up to the city docks too. first come first serve it's free, and they have a few free slips way back that are also free. but its not often they are empty. 

I would suggest a stern anchor in the cove too, the boats can swing quite a bit .


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Information from Delaware City Marina, transient slips are available for the weekend September 17 through 19.

The town dock offers limited visits with no services and no overnight dockage. 

Delaware City Marina has significant water depth, about 9 foot at MLLW and a 6' tide on top of that. The last reported depth at the entrance to the town basin near green day mark one was about 7' at MLLW. Since there is 6' of tide, the water depth increases about 1 foot every hour of a rising tide.

The town dock is being dredged now but progress is slow and there is NO overnight dockage available at the town dock. The town dock is not in service now as the gangway has been removed while the dredge crew works.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
I can't answer question on the hydrology of the river, just my observations.
The high amd low out of sync with the projections may be more to do with our strange slack tides.
At Essington I have observed slack tide lasting close to 3 hrs, or just 15 mins.
An occasional strange event is a 1 foot high tidal bore separating the flood tide from the ebb tide, usually starts near the Corinthian Yacht Club and breaks up near the abandoned Westinghouse sluice gate just up river from Anchorage Marina.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> ...The town dock is being dredged now but progress is slow and there is NO overnight dockage available at the town dock. The town dock is not in service now as the gangway has been removed while the dredge crew works.


Sounds pretty much like it was a month ago when I drove down to visit. The dredge boat was sinking, presumably because one of its pontoons had partially filled with water. As you pointed out, even when the town dock is operational, there are signs all over that overnight docking is prohibited. So the marina is the only option for overnight stays.

The only other complaint I have heard about Delaware City is odors from the nearby petrochemical plant when the wind is the wrong direction. Valero shut that plant down, but sold it recently, so I'm not sure if it's running again yet. Have you heard anything about that?


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

The Delaware City DE and Paulsboro NJ Valero Refineries was mothballed by Valero last year.
Petroplus a Dutch company took control of the Delaware City Refinery early this year and have been upgrading the facility.
I suspect if the wind is out of the north it will still smell even with upgrades.
The only dredged part of the bulkhead shoal channel is from the C&D entrance to the refinery dock.
From the refinery dock up river to Newcastle the channel and shoals are where the river wants them to be.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Ulladh said:


> Information from Delaware City Marina, transient slips are available for the weekend September 17 through 19.
> 
> The town dock offers limited visits with no services and no overnight dockage...


I have overnighted at Delaware City Marina a couple of times. I didn't even realize that there was a separate site, "Town Dock".

That said - the Delaware City Marina was quite nice, but $2.00 per foot as I recall. It is well back in the old canal and the canal width makes turning larger boats a task that requires some extra attention (though not difficult). The current can be a couple of knots so the bow-to-current orientation makes docking a little easier.

I will not "openly" challenge their 7-ft MLW claim, but it is not unusual for people driving shallow draft craft (or renting dock space) to report good deep water on approach. I go in on the half tide - favoring the green as advised and see ~7-ft even then. Once in the old canal depths range 9-14-ft. And of course there is no place to anchor inside.

Denise - my boat draws (every inch of) 6'2".

Ulladh - thanks for the research.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Delaware City town dock is in the basin at the entrance to the old lock gates. Free to tie up, but not overnight, and not open until the dredge is complete.

A few minutes walk to Crabby Dicks, very nice resturant in the old Delaware City Hotel, with a deck overlooking the seawall and Pea Patch Island.

Nearby the Three Forts Ferry, well worth the trip to Fort Delaware on Pea Patch Island. We took the ferry and visted Fort Delaware last year, I usually don't take re-enactors very well, but the group on Fort Delaware were excellent.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

The meet-up will be Saturday September 18 at Delaware City or Chesapeake City.

Post your preference and I will start to make arrangements after August 18.
Full vote if traveling by water, half vote if by land.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Ulla - dude, you guys should have a race on your GR course. You're getting lapped by those Maryland chumps!

Kick butt and take pics!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
I had a very relaxing backward sail this morning, my canoe stern gives the option of two bows, no wind but a gentle controled drift with the tide. As the tidal current builds and I surrender to the river, come about, then there was just enough appearent wind to create some directional control.
You just have to love this river.
Smack
I am devoting this coming week to a day with a breeze, I don't care if it is under 5 knots, and if I need to leave the slip at sunrise to get the right tide I will.
At this point I don't care what my course speed is, just complete the course. The forecast wind speed today was under 5 knots, but the tide was just right, I could have drift around the course at the speed I was going in about 6 hours.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh - We've been in VA all weekend visiting my son at Jamboree, so unable to sail. I was a little frustrated at missing some good sailing weather, but your description sounds like we picked a good weekend to miss.

We've been very lucky that aside from one calm day in April, we've never had a day when we could not sail both ways. We've always been able to make headway against the current, or planned our timing to change direction at the same time as the tide.

I'll have to study the GR rules, plan a course, and study the tide schedules. If I time the currents right I might be able to post a pretty impressive time. I know from our GPS traces that the currents can make our windward tacks look almost impossible - maybe around ±20°. I'll have to dig some of them up and post them, because they look pretty crazy.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

We were out there a few hours on Saturday. Was dead to almost no air at all. Fuel problems again, Had to basically sail back to the boat club. Sigh, never take free fuel from a friend. My new tank is contaminated big time. fortunately it is easy to remove, should take less then 2 hours out, clean and back in the boat.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
Will your boat be ready sail down to Delaware City this September, maybe we can time our sail to be in convoy near Commodore Barry.

My Saturday sail or more correctly drift, did have a few minutes of full sail as an Antonov Airlines huge air freighter came in to land, low and heavy. On Sunday I was doing carpentry work in the cabin when it departed slapping the boats around in the marina with its air wake.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Hope to get here ready by the middle of this week actually it's not difficult as it was when the old tank was in there.


----------



## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

*just a thought......*

I assume a "meet in the middle" of the Delaware Chesapeake canal will involve a couple days prep and sailing, a party, then a long sail or ride home - at least a two day commitment for most. 
How about two parties? The Delaware River sailors host a sail and dock party in Philadelphia, then the Chesapeake folks reciprocate with a raft up near Still Pond or someplace similar.
Everyone could experience the excitement of city sailing, Camden waterfront and Philadelphia attractions and time to meet new folks on the water, followed by the best of the northern Chesapeake - quiet, beauty, and some good crabs too.
There is great sailing at either end but the middle, from south of Essington to the far side of the canal can be pretty dismal, and if the wind isn't right almost unbearable. 
Getting sail folks to commit is like herding cats, I understand the prospect of doing it twice seems on the surface to be insane, but it may mean less time in the not so hot spots, and more time enjoying a party on a boat.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I'd be much more interested in Philadelphia or Still Pond or both than Chesapeake City or Delaware City.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'd be coming from pretty far north on the Delaware. May just drive depending on when and where. I still think Essington is a great location.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dfok said:


> ...How about two parties? The Delaware River sailors host a sail and dock party in Philadelphia, then the Chesapeake folks reciprocate with a raft up near Still Pond or someplace similar...


The only problem with your suggestion is that it was already done earlier this year. Denise hosted a get-together in Essington over Memorial Day weekend, and the Chesapeake guys hosted in Pasadena in June. A destination somewhere in the middle would be a nice next step.

If you read through this thread, you can see that Ulladh has already put some effort into checking this out. Ulladh and I are willing to endure the "dismal" sail down to the canal, and it's about the right distance for us for a one-night destination. So for this particular event, I support his efforts and hope nothing (weather, kids, etc.) comes up to prevent us from going.

I'm open to considering any other event that you want to host, but I'm not sure that sailing in Philadelphia is as great as you make it out to be. Personally, my wife and I enjoy daysailing from Essington to Commodore Barry bridge more than going up to Philly, and do it whenever the tidal currents are not prohibitive.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Never, ever, travel the river without going with the flow LOL 3 knts going against the flow, compared to 7-9 when running with. I've not sailed philly other then going through to get home which is another 6 hrs north of Philly. It's very very commercial and heavily traveled with ships, barges and oh.. there's ducs to duck when they break down.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Just saw this thread, sounds interesting...I am not sure what the date is though after reading the thread?


----------



## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

Kudos to Ulladh, Denise and anyone else trying to get people together - it is often a thankless and sometimes a hopeless task. My read was that September 18th was tentative as was the destination but if a plan is already in the works I think I covered it with "just a thought", which indeed is what it was.
As for hosting, I'm more a spur of the moment ( read disorganized) guy. I'd be delighted to host a day sail on my stretch of the bay almost anytime, just drop me a message or reply here.
Your a good man to go through the "dismal section"(twice) to get together with friends. May the tides be with you!


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've a ladies social group that I've been working on almost 3 yrs now I get lots of thanks! It can however, be very frustrating if one lets it get to them. I've always loved bringing people together.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I agree with Dfok. Thanks to those making the effort to herd cats, and put up with input from the peanut gallery.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Cheseapeke City option

Low on Saturday 18th September is at 2:35 at the C&D canal at Reedy Point, and 1:20 at Chesapeake City. So arriving from the Delware end at low slack or with the flood, and from Chesapeake end before low slack or with ebb.
Check your tide tables for optimal time to ride the tide.

(Flood is current D to C, Ebb is current C to D)

Chesapeake City has a larger basin for anchoring and more options for slip or seawall. Chesapeake City has a larger selection of resturants and is more of a small town than Delaware Cities large village feel.

Timing for arrival on the 17th shifts about 1hr.

Saturday the 18th afternoon/evening get together produces a travel slot for Saturday morning and Sunday. The idle rich, retired with income, unemployed and underemployed always have the option to arrive early and depart late.

Delaware City is my preference but Chesapeake City works for me also, just more travel time motoring.

Based on responses I will make the location call on August 18.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Engineers cove at Ches City, it's always been called. I love to stay there when transiting to or from the bays Almost always live music coming from the inn, there's breakfast at the bakery up the hill, the crabs can be had at the "tap room" also up the hill,

[URL=http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.526587,-75.808711&spn=0.007481,0.021973&z=16&output=embed]http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.526587,-75.808711&spn=0.007481,0.021973&z=16&output=embed[/URL]
[SIZE=1][URL=http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.526587,-75.808711&spn=0.007481,0.021973&z=16&source=embed]View Larger Map[/URL][/SIZE]


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

And Delaware City Marina. I've not been there by boat yet.

[URL=http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.574099,-75.589475&spn=0.007476,0.013797&z=16&output=embed]http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.574099,-75.589475&spn=0.007476,0.013797&z=16&output=embed[/URL]
[SIZE=1][URL=http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.574099,-75.589475&spn=0.007476,0.013797&z=16&source=embed]View Larger Map[/URL][/SIZE]


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I can read the charts, and have read the pilots. Anyone with RECENT knowledge for getting 6 feet into Chesapeake City?


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I wasn't posting that stuff to get you angry S/V, Just my attempt to give others a bird's eye view 

I found this to add to Ulladh's post below 
MD: C & D Canal, Chesapeake City Anchorage, dredging

The dredge RICHMOND will be conducting dredging operations in the C & D Canal at Chesapeake City Anchorage Basin from 27 June until 20 August, 2010. Mariners are cautioned to stay clear of dredge, booster, floating (pontoon) and submerged pipelines, barges, derricks and operating wires associated with dredging and marine construction operations. Operators of vessels of all types should be aware that dredges and floating pipelines are held in place by cables, attached to anchors some distance away from the equipment. Buoys are attached to the anchors so that the anchors may be moved as the dredge advances and the location of the submerged pipelines are marked by buoys on each side of the
channel. Mariners are cautioned to strictly comply with the Inland Rules of the Road when approaching, passing and leaving the area of operations, and remain a safe distance away from the dredge, booster, buoys, cables, pipeline, barges, derricks, wires and related equipment.
Owners and lessees of fishnets, crabpots and other structures that may be in the vicinity and that may hinder the free navigation of attending vessels and equipment must be remove these from the area where tugs, tenderboats and other attendant equipment will be navigating. Dredging projects are usually conducted twenty-four (24) hours a day seven (7) days a week, all fishnets, crabpots and structures in the general area must be removed prior to commencement of any work. Chart: 12277.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Dredge work at Chesapeake City Anchorage Basin/Engineers Cove is scheduled to be completed by August 20


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I can't find anything about the depths they will be making. I do know it was always about 7 ft in most of the basin at low tide. I've seen some very very large boats is there too!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

From the Army Corp of Engineers contract solicitation:

"Maintenance dredging under this contract will be performed at various locations within the boundaries of the Chesapeake City Anchorage Basin. Dredging will be required to a depth of 10 feet below mean lower low water (MLLW) plus one-foot allowable over depth, with no side slopes delineated and/or paid for along all channel edges (box cut)."


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Cool! that is deep! all considered LOL


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> I wasn't posting that stuff to get you angry S/V, Just my attempt to give others a bird's eye view


I wasn't angry, and certainly not at you Denise. I wasn't responding to your photos at all - I like Google Earth and other sources of overhead imagery too. My apologies if my post wasn't clear as to my intent.

I saw the dredge on the Delaware side back in May when I last came through the canal.

The little harbor in Chesapeake City has historically had one heck of hump across the entrance. I was/am hoping someone has been through there and can report on the actual depths. When I went through in May there was a boat aground toward the west side of the entrance which used to be the deep bit. It doesn't make much difference how deep it is inside if we can't get in.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

I have to admit that Chesapeake City is a destination with more to offer than Delaware City including the option to anchor. I have only seen Chesapeake City from the bridge as I would go to crew in races on the Chesapeake.

Rhythm
A Saturday (18th Sept) morning departure from Essington (10:00 AM high tide) riding the ebb to Reedy Point then the flood to Chesapeake City will produce an arrival time late afternoon or early evening, maybe not optimal for a get together. A Friday departure would provide for a more relaxed time in Chesapeake City.
A Sunday return departing on ther canal ebb any time after 8:30 AM will require going against the ebb after Reedy Point probably all the way to low tide at 5:20 PM in Essington.
An alternate option for Saturday morning is to leave at sunrise 6:45 AM and just fight the flood for about 3hrs. Arrival time mid afternoon.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

There's a Tiki bar at the water front also. Not cheap of course but it's nice. there is almost always live music from the night club too. Water taxi though I've never used it. Back in the corner are I think 4 free slips. and the sea wall docks offer free tie up. there is water and some electric but we've never used it. Hard to get space late in the day evening and most will have to anchor, which is not a bad thing either now that it's dredged! We just may be able to raft up.. or the side by side tie up.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Rhythm
> A Saturday (18th Sept) morning departure from Essington (10:00 AM high tide) riding the ebb to Reedy Point then the flood to Chesapeake City will produce an arrival time late afternoon or early evening, maybe not optimal for a get together. A Friday departure would provide for a more relaxed time in Chesapeake City.
> A Sunday return departing on ther canal ebb any time after 8:30 AM will require going against the ebb after Reedy Point probably all the way to low tide at 5:20 PM in Essington.
> An alternate option for Saturday morning is to leave at sunrise 6:45 AM and just fight the flood for about 3hrs. Arrival time mid afternoon.


Unfortunately a Friday departure is simply impossible. Lori has to teach until 5 pm and there is absolutely no flexibility on that.

My chart plotter shows that Delaware City is about 24 nm, and Chesapeake City about 36 nm. Unfortunately that 50% increase in distance translates to almost double the travel time because we'll have to fight the tide part way.

I'm going to need to study up a little more before I comment further, and I'm out of time right now.

I agree that Chesapeake City is a more attractive destination, but just not sure it is doable by boat for us with our time constraints.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

I'm going in the basin right behind Auspicious!

When are ya planning to arrive Dave?

__________________________________
*Chesapeake City C&D Canal Tide*

*Friday, September 17, 2010*
12:53 AM EDT Low tide 0.81 Feet
1:14 AM EDT Moonset
6:46 AM EDT Sunrise
6:49 AM EDT High tide 3.21 Feet
1:28 PM EDT Low tide 0.55 Feet
4:10 PM EDT Moonrise
7:08 PM EDT Sunset
7:12 PM EDT High tide 3.14 Feet

*Saturday, September 18, 2010*
1:55 AM EDT Low tide 0.77 Feet
2:14 AM EDT Moonset
6:47 AM EDT Sunrise
7:47 AM EDT High tide 3.20 Feet
2:22 PM EDT Low tide 0.54 Feet
4:42 PM EDT Moonrise
7:07 PM EDT Sunset
8:08 PM EDT High tide 3.20 Feet

*Sunday, September 19, 2010*
2:49 AM EDT Low tide 0.70 Feet
3:14 AM EDT Moonset
6:48 AM EDT Sunrise
8:41 AM EDT High tide 3.23 Feet
3:10 PM EDT Low tide 0.51 Feet
5:10 PM EDT Moonrise
7:05 PM EDT Sunset
9:00 PM EDT High tide 3.28 Feet
__________________________________
*Chesapeake City Bridge C&D Canal Current
*
*Friday, September 17, 2010*
12:02 AM EDT Slack before flood
1:14 AM EDT Moonset
2:54 AM EDT Flood 1.98 Knots
6:46 AM EDT Sunrise
7:08 AM EDT Slack before ebb
8:48 AM EDT Ebb -0.83 Knots
11:43 AM EDT Slack before flood
2:51 PM EDT Flood 1.75 Knots
4:10 PM EDT Moonrise
5:45 PM EDT Slack before ebb
7:08 PM EDT Sunset
9:03 PM EDT Ebb -1.43 Knots

*Saturday, September 18, 2010*
12:56 AM EDT Slack before flood
2:14 AM EDT Moonset
3:46 AM EDT Flood 1.99 Knots
6:47 AM EDT Sunrise
7:56 AM EDT Slack before ebb
9:46 AM EDT Ebb -0.91 Knots
12:49 PM EDT Slack before flood
3:47 PM EDT Flood 1.78 Knots
4:42 PM EDT Moonrise
6:47 PM EDT Slack before ebb
7:07 PM EDT Sunset
9:57 PM EDT Ebb -1.41 Knots

*Sunday, September 19, 2010*
1:44 AM EDT Slack before flood
3:14 AM EDT Moonset
4:36 AM EDT Flood 2.01 Knots
6:47 AM EDT Sunrise
8:36 AM EDT Slack before ebb
10:38 AM EDT Ebb -1.01 Knots
1:49 PM EDT Slack before flood
4:41 PM EDT Flood 1.83 Knots
5:10 PM EDT Moonrise
7:05 PM EDT Sunset
7:47 PM EDT Slack before ebb
10:49 PM EDT Ebb -1.39 Knots


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

It's all very accessible by car too Rhythm! Last year on the way back in late June or was it early july. there was "canal day" with easy a couple hundred boats there 110* heat under my bimini that day..


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
My 20ft boat is slower than yours, but I can easily do 6kn SOG motor half throttle with the tide, I have done 9kn SOG with peek flow, but I am assuming 4kn under sail.
Against the peek tide at half throttle I will be about 3kn SOG
So 6 hr sail with the ebb tide to Reedy Point, 2 to 3 hr motor to Chesapeake City.
For planning I assume 10 hr travel time, 8 if I am really lucky, your boat travel time will probably be 8 hrs or less.


----------



## RForst (Aug 4, 2010)

*New guy*

Hi, will be docked in Delaware City later this month and would really like to get acquainted with other sailers. Count me in for a September get together.

Rudy


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> It's all very accessible by car too Rhythm! Last year on the way back in late June or was it early july. there was "canal day" with easy a couple hundred boats there 110* heat under my bimini that day..


Canal days debauchery is legendary. Check out the online videos -- but not while at work!!!

I might try to scrape up a substitute 1st mate for a Friday trip down (if Ulladh is interested in going Friday), then have Lori meet us Friday night. I'll have to see. And as I said before, thweshort drive down by car will always be possible as a fallback.

Ulladh - Thanks for doing my homework for me.  I'll look over the numbers when I get home.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

wwilson said:


> I'm going in the basin right behind Auspicious!
> 
> When are ya planning to arrive Dave?


I'm still trying to get current information on the hump at the entrance. No point in slugging up there only to do big circles in the canal.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> ...My 20ft boat is slower than yours...


Heheh, you haven't seen me pilot a boat yet.  We did manage to sail backwards yesterday. Left around 2 and made some progress downriver against the slowly accelerating flood current, making it almost to the casino. The winds died down for a few minutes and we looked over at the big ship docked next to us and we were going backwards. My plan was to sail until we couldn't make headway, so we turned around at that point. It felt very weird coming about with zero SOG (but positive SOW).


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

SVAuspicious said:


> I'm still trying to get current information on the hump at the entrance. No point in slugging up there only to do big circles in the canal.


TowBoat US Member? I don't know if the local Capt. gets pissy over a phone call or not - but fwiw: TowBoatU.S. Chesapeake City: Chesapeake City, MD /410-885-5988

I've called once - no answer.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I'll try also. Thanks.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Sailnet Delware Bay/River and Upper Chesapeake will be Saturday September 18, 2010 at Chesapeake City Anchorage Basin/Engineers Cove.

Open question; depth of bar at basin entrance?

I will be departing Essington 9:00am Friday 17th and ride the ebb most of the way to Reedy Point, then ride the flood in the canal to Chesapeake City.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Ulladh,

Shall we bring a dish of something to share? Or should we plan on using one of the restaurants? Do you think that the get-together will be on land, or rafted boats?

Seems as if I recall a park with tables in the proximity of the basin, from a car trip many years ago. Anybody know if you can you drink a beer in there?

Sorry to burden with more detail, but you have shown yourself to be a pretty good organizer of the event to date. Anyway...some more to consider & confuse!


----------



## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

*depth of bar*

I often find the depth of the bar varies, Chesapeake City probably follows the "standard deviation". At the beginning of the night generally the bar is somewhere above waist high. With liberal application of rum it takes on a swell consistent with a boat in a reasonable wind ( and has been known to induce nausea in those less seasoned at dealing with bars). Watch your head, that sucker can come up pretty quick - sometimes two to three feet - and without warning.
Worst case scenario ( a knockdown) the bar sometimes rises 4-5 feet in an instant, in which case you are what we call "grounded" or more nautically "run aground".
In case of grounding an immediate PFD and bucket are a good idea - get to a safe corner and wait for daylight to best assess the situation.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> ...I will be departing Essington 9:00am Friday 17th and ride the ebb most of the way to Reedy Point, then ride the flood in the canal to Chesapeake City.


I had not realized that a flood tide causes the current to run east-to-west in the canal. That really helps us getting there if we time it right! But tides for the return on Sunday look awful. You had suggested leaving Del. City an hour before sunrise - what do you suggest for leaving Chesapeake City?

My sailing friend at work lives in Chesapeake City right on the north side of the canal. We've been talking about getting him out on my boat someday, so he's checking into whether he could take Friday 17th off and bring the boat down with me. Lori could drive his car down to meet us, and he can drive home after I treat him for dinner.

Denise - Are you going to try to come down Friday with Ulladh and (hopefully) me?

As for food, my boat has a reputably bad ice chest (which I've never used), so anything I bring might not last from Friday morning until Saturday evening. A restaurant might be best, or I'd be happy to chip in for burgers, chicken, or other grill food if someone has a better ice box and a gas grill.

I don't have a dinghy (yet) since I'm just a daysailer, so if slips are not available and we have to anchor, I would appreciate someone ferrying Lori in from land and to restaurants. Should we take a tally of who has dinghies?


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

There's a water taxi just call em up the come get you! Unless they stop that service in Sept. Not sure if I'm coming by boat yet! it's a long haul from Bristol!

RD you really need to use the tides coming and going out the Delaware side of the C & D I try to time leaving C city about 2 hours before dead low. this way you ride down and out the canal. Then with luck, you ride the tide back north. 
Year before I did not heed the tides and it took forever to get there! 

ps: the my new tank is BACK! in my boat. New filter, new fiter funnel for filling too. 5 gals of fresh diesel,got her running tonight! Sweltering heat out there! omg! 

Lesson learned: 
don't EVER use free fuel from someone that was changing out their tank. I did a major OOPS! Thought I'd get by, but 6 R24T racor cartridges and a year later ($30 a pop) there was still lots of water and rust flakes to cause problems.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh,

As far as departure time on Sunday, here are Pea Patch Island tides:

09/19/2010 Sun 03:23AM LDT 0.6 L 09:08AM LDT 5.8 H 03:28PM LDT 0.6 L 09:30PM LDT 6.3 H 

Leaving a couple hours before low tide in the morning would be insane!

How about leaving a little after noon, which gives us a boost out of the canal, fight the dwindling ebb in the river for a short while, then get a boost upriver with the flood? With some luck we would not be sailing in the dark until north of the Commodore Barry Bridge, which are pretty familiar waters with lots of space outside the channel on the Pennsylvania side.

That leaves enough relaxing time on Sunday morning that we could delay departure until Saturday if conditions were threatening on Friday.


----------



## 2redtrek (Nov 7, 2006)

*Engineers Cove*

I was aground in Engineers Cove at the city dock in mid June,I need 4 foot of water and it did not matter where at the entrance we went the water was too thin,also the locals told us that the 4 free slips in the rear of cove had less than 2 foot of water,hopefully thing have been addressed.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
OK with noon or late morning Sunday departure. Commodore Barry or even Marcus Hook to Essington after sunset is outside the main channel with a lot of light spill from the PA side. Just make a mental note of the new rip-rap at Commodore Barry as we go down river.

Dredge
We may have to wait until the dredge is complete later this month for good information on the entrance to the basin (I will contact town dock later this month for latest information, the dockmaster is currenty reporting a hump at the middle of the entrance).

Preliminary Events Schedule, weather dependent;
Friday night; meet at resturant/bar with deck
Saturday late afternoon through sunset; picnic (I will check with Town Hall for location)
Sunday morning; breakfast at resturant with deck.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Since slack water doesn't coincide with extremes of tide trying to work out currents from tide tables is unnecessarily hard.

NOAA has great tide tables online. I cut and paste relevant information into a document and print it to take along.

See Tidal Current Tables . The site has many more current stations listed than you'll find in Eldridge or such. Watch the directions of ebb and flood at the top of each location page so you don't have to worry about which direction counts as what in the canal.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

From Dock Master at Chesapeake City;
The basin has been dredged. The depth in the entrance at low mean water is 10' Enjoy your stay.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Auspicious
Thanks for the link, time to do some more study.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

there's the answer I needed! time to shop for a new boat! BIGGER! LOL not really.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

My friend who lives in Chesapeake City is likely to be able to join me for the trip down on Friday. He knows all these places and the people that run them pretty well, and has some opinions about the quality of restaurants/facilities and the business practices of the owners. He says getting a transient slip at Chesapeake Inn will be virtually impossible. He said if he were planning it he would go to Summit North due to better facilities, restaurant, and better management of the marina. It's also closer to the middle of the canal. The only downside is no anchoring there - we'd all need to get slips.

Was there a reason we knocked Summit North out of consideration?


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

the cove is free "parking" is the best reason. I've heard summit has a shallow entry also. (imho) sailors can survive without paying fees to park for one night.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

The 10 foot depth at entrance was the answer that I needed. Thanks for the research once again Ulladh and 1st hand experience report 2redtrek.

Once say, 6-8 boats arrive, is there a reasonably good chance there will be room in the anchorage *in 8-ft depths* for at least two of us? I'd hate to get "waved off" because the next stop for me would be Reedy Island for the night. Pardon me but, Ugh!

That was me - from personal, 1st hand experience offering the shallow water pox on Summit North Marina. That said - there is no reason for a Chesapeake deep draft boat to nix a Delaware SailNetters location. We could join you for the next one, if SNM is the best choice.

You CAN get in SNM on the tide, but will set at list in the mud almost half of your stay if you draw 6' or more. Each time I pass I radio and ask the approach depth and add another 6" of draft to my requirements. They inevitably say "plenty of water - hail us once inside for slip assignment". I am now 7'6" deep. I think they mean "plenty of water" in the x & y dimension - not so much in z.

Dave I will plan to arrive Friday about 6:00 pm to maximize the tide and hit pretty close to slack water before ebb at the bar. We anchor at 39°21.93' x 75°58.69' in Turner Cove of the Sassafras R. the night prior if interested in a raft-up.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

I should be arriving late afternoon Friday and will anchor.

Perhaps shallower draft boats, I draw 4ft, should do a loop of the basin and select an anchorage clear of the deeper sections of the basin. The dredge contract for the basin called for 10' MLLW with 1' overcut.

Chesapeake City is free anchorage, no dinghy dock fee, and more intersesting stuff to do within walking distance than Delaware City or Summit North.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I don't think it will be a problem even with 10 boats. When we pulled in last year during the height of Canal Day on a Saturday the CG started to wave us off but I explained we HAD to anchor for repairs. (really needed fuel filter changed again) they let us in. I don't think Sept will be a prob. 

A stern anchor may be a good idea in the cove too.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

wwilson said:


> I think _current_, unlike _wind_, is defined by the direction of its flow, not the direction to its source - correct? If so, it is the Chesapeake that floods the canal -isn't it? Seems to be in contradiction of something said earlier in this thread...





RhythmDoctor said:


> I had not realized that a flood tide causes the current to run east-to-west in the canal...


If what you are referring to is this comment that I made, it was based on observations of OpenCPN's directional arrows showing the direction and magnitude of the current, not based on any misunderstanding of someone's words. It appears from that software that if the Delaware River is in flood current, then the current through the canal is going from the Delaware to the Chesapeake. If the Delaware is in ebb, then the opposite is true.

However, if you have personal observations that contradict this, please let me know, since open source software is known to have a occasional bug.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Doctor,

I deleted my own post apparently not soon enough. I stand corrected.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

wwilson said:


> Doctor,
> 
> I deleted my own post apparently not soon enough. I stand corrected.


Hey, no problem! I look forward to meeting you and helping to kedge your boat off the hump! 

I got your message through email, and started typing the response before you had deleted it. I would not have bothered to respond if I had seen you delete it first.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks Ulladh for the information from the CC dockmaster. Lovely.

Wayne, I've got a bunch of things on my plate between now and then and will plan when we get closer. Sassafrass would be nice -- I've staged in Worton Creek and Still Pond but not the river.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RhythmDoctor said:


> ...It appears from that software that if the Delaware River is in flood current, then the current through the canal is going from the Delaware to the Chesapeake. If the Delaware is in ebb, then the opposite is true.
> 
> However, if you have personal observations that contradict this, please let me know, since open source software is known to have a occasional bug.


Wayne - I meant it when I said this, I was not being facetious. These programs can have interesting bugs.

I just got home from work and found this odd chart sitting on my computer:









Unless there's a huge river running out of the middle of the canal, there must be a little bug in OpenCPN's prediction algorithm for currents in the canal. In the chemical engineering profession, we'd say this violates the continuity equation for incompressible fluids.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Your program may not be wrong.
High tide at Chesapeake City is about 45min before high tide at Reedy Point, the ebb may start at CC before flood has finished at RP. So direction of flow at Summit Bridge and at St Georges may be as predicted by the program.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Rhythm
> Your program may not be wrong.
> High tide at Chesapeake City is about 45min before high tide at Reedy Point, the ebb may start at CC before flood has finished at RP. So direction of flow at Summit Bridge and at St Georges may be as predicted by the program.


Yes, I'm definitely still learning.  Someone PM'ed me the same thing. It could make for some interesting turbulence!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Just be aware that tide predictions represent a probability based on historical data and moon/sun position. Wind can pile up water in the upper Chesapeake, and low or high pressure in and off the Delaware bay will have an effect on high and low tides and current speed. Local conditions; narrows, shoals, obstructions,.. will produce local variations on predictions for the area in general.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Guys.. maybe, could yall be over thinking this trip this a tad?


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
You are right, it is just a long day sail, not the Northwest Passage.
I took my daugher and two friends out for a sunrise sail this morning, not enough wind to go against the current but enough for easy sailing with the current. Sunrise on the river is spectacular.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

It's almost always a "motor all the way" type a trip when ever going north or south on the river. 

Today was a rare day for us! Nice 10-15 (guessing) winds from the east! we were sailing well deployed and leaning about 15-20 degrees. and there wasn't much weather helm either. I was very pleased with the new used sails for my boat! even got to close haul the main and jib a few times! It was hot though.. sweltering again like it's been for weeks. This was late in the day. the winds started building about 3 pm


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Just bumping the thread.
Out for a sail this morning, slalom cans and nuns (if you can call two cans and a nun a slalom) off Eddystone and Chester.
Out on slack at low and return on the flood. Low 90's F with 5kn breeze, clocked 4.5 kn SOG before the flood increased. Windward return but with the flood.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Getting together information for availability of picinic pavilion/area for September 18.

So far interest from;
RhythmDoctor
RockDawg
Denise
Chef2Sail
FlybyKnight
Eryka
WWilson
DFok
SVAuspicious
T37Chef
RForst
2RedTrek

Let me know approximate numbers for the picnic, including anyone arriving by land.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Ulladh said:


> Let me know approximate numbers for the picnic, including anyone arriving by land.


Two by sea, s/v Virginia Dare. Thanks for the coordination Ulladh!


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

*Sorry to miss it*

We're going to pass on this one, but look forward to seeing all the pics!!! Y'all have fun now


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh - Sorry about the delayed response. We've been at Lake Wallenpaupack all week, sailing the Phantom plus one afternoon on a friend's Catalina 250.

I really hope to come by boat on Friday, departing about the same time as you. I'll have to confirm that I have a 1st mate, because I'm not ready to single-hand yet. Count on Lori and me for the picnic. There is a chance my youngest son will join us, but that will depend on a whole lot of factors that we will not learn about until he starts school in September.


----------



## gershel (Feb 4, 2001)

RhythmDoctor said:


> If what you are referring to is this comment that I made, it was based on observations of OpenCPN's directional arrows showing the direction and magnitude of the current, not based on any misunderstanding of someone's words. It appears from that software that if the Delaware River is in flood current, then the current through the canal is going from the Delaware to the Chesapeake. If the Delaware is in ebb, then the opposite is true.
> 
> However, if you have personal observations that contradict this, please let me know, since open source software is known to have a occasional bug.


When I come up Delaware Bay to the Chesapeke, I try to time it so that I get to the C&D a little after the flood ends, so that I'll have a fair current heading west on the canal.
Marc


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Update

Potluck Picnic 3:30 PM Saturday September 18, 2010 location when I get a better guestimate on numbers.

7:30 PM Saturday September 18, 2010 CHESAPEAKE INN RESTAURANT after sunset on the deck.

Post on this thread or send me a PM if you will be there, including numbers and if by boat.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We will make it by evening on Saturday. Its a Good 6 hours from Baltimore.

Dave


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Chef2sail, see you Saturday September 18th evening.

I will post updates on the First Post

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-upper-chesapeake-get-together-september.html


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Plan A: Leave Friday a little after 9 and try to catch up with Ulladh. This depends on my friend's availability, and there is a possibility of his cancellation at the last minute, in which case...

Plan B: Leave Saturday about the same time, arrive too late for the picnic.

I haven't sailed the C250 for over 2 weeks. Coming home from the Grand Canyon tomorrow. Last week I was doing stuff like this in the Phantom:


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Ulladh said:


> Chef2sail, see you Saturday September 18th evening.
> 
> I will post updates on the 1st thread post.


Ulladh---Click on the Post# and paste that URL back in your current post in the standard fashion.

First Post

It saves the pain of navigation for your hopelessly lazy listeners - or me anyway!


----------



## Missinglink (Dec 4, 2005)

I am at Cape May and would like any info on the best tide to travel up the bay to the C&D, I am asuming just after high. I Sail a Hunter 31.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Missing
Depart Cape May an hour or two before low tide to ride the flood, or at slack in the Cape May Canal.

September 17th;
Cape May Ferry Terminal low tide 10:39 AM
Artificial Island high tide 7:09 PM
Reedy Point high tide 7:44 PM
So ride the tide for about 9 hours to Reedy Point.

Maybe overnight at Delaware City or behind the Reedy Island shoal then ride the next flood tide through the C&D early the next morning. 
September 18, Reedy Point low tide 2:32 AM and high 8:13 AM.
Or just motor through on Friday night, sunset at 7:08 PM, but the canal is fully lighted.

Assume for planning purposes motoring all the way from Cape May, then time under sail will be an added bonus.

The Hunter 31 if weather cooperates should make Reedy Point under 10 hours.

Cape May to Delaware City is two days for me with an overnight at Cohansey Creek.

Tide Location Selection for New Jersey
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/613951-post1.html


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

NOAA has current tables that make the difference between the current cycle and the tidal cycle very clear. As Ulladh noted you will have a faster trip if you ride the flood up Deleware Bay.

Check the current tables. Since there are limits to the speed-through-water you can maintain in your 31 you should plan to leave Cape May about half-way, or a little earlier, between slack-before-flood and flood. You will have a boost of 1 to 3 knots from Cape May all the way through the canal to Worton Creek in as little as 10 hours. Cape May to Chesapeake City should be around 6 hours.

The offset between currents and tides varies from place to place based on the volume of upstream water so there is no good rule of thumb that works everywhere. A lot of local knowledge helps, but the NOAA current tables are better yet and have so many current stations that you can lay in a real good plan.

I bucked the current from Annapolis to the mouth of the Deleware Bay back in May -- 23 hours. Laying over in Cape Henlopen and getting some rest coming back, riding with the current, I made it to Annapolis in under 16 hours. That's a big deal.

Forgot the link: Tidal Current Tables


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

"*Cape May to Chesapeake City should be around 6 hours. *"

I did a double take reading that SVA!


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> "*Cape May to Chesapeake City should be around 6 hours. *"
> 
> I did a double take reading that SVA!


That's about how long it took me in a heavy 40' sloop last May from Cape Henlopen inside the inner breakwater to CC. We were anchor down in Worton Creek by 4, starting from Cape Henlopen sometime between 6 and 7. The current boost is a really good thing, and a bigger deal in DE Bay than in the C&D.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

someday...


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Cape May to Reedy Point with the right weather and tidal current is doable in 5 or 6 hrs.
Approx 50nm @ 5 kn = 10hrs (my hull speed with no curent assist)
Approx 50nm @ 10kn = 5hrs (8kn hull speed + 2kn current assist)

Yesturday I was bobbing around on the river at 1.5 kn SOG with less than 5mph breeze at slack and 3 kn with the flood tide. The tidal current can make a huge difference.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have a similar experience as Auspicious. We ride the delaqare to Cape May at least twice a year. The tide makes all the difference. Comming back is always easier do to the elongated rising tide from Cape may to the canal.

Dave


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Yesturday I was bobbing around on the river at 1.5 kn SOG with less than 5mph breeze at slack and 3 kn with the flood tide. The tidal current can make a huge difference.


You should have waited a few hours. The breeze picked up a bit in the evening. We went out around 6:15 and had a gentle but very steady breeze. Beating at 6 kn with the current going down river. Running at 1 kn or less against the current, so we motored back after watching the gorgeous sunset.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

I was on the river between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM seeking wind. The usauly stronger breeze outside the island shadow at Darby Creek and off the airport did not appear. 

Local conditions on the river and bay trump predictions.

I replaced all my wiring, have a new electric panel, installed a salvaged solar panel, so for the first time in 3 years I have reliable nav lights. Ready for some evening sailing.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey, just checking in again about our get-together in 2 weeks.

Lori and I were in Delaware yesterday, so we headed down to the canal to check out Chesapeake City. There is very limited parking in the town, which prevented us from getting out and walking around. Chesapeake Inn has valet parking only ($3), so that's an option if you're driving down for dinner. There is also a municipal parking lot on the edge of town, from which you can walk the several blocks to the waterfront. We just did a driving tour because it was almost sunset and it was getting chilly, and we were not planning to go there for dinner. The restaurant looked rather high-end (but I think they have a deck that is more casual). There were numerous other casual eateries in the town. There were also lots of galleries and other points of interest - definitely a nice destination.

On the east edge of the basin, adjacent to a public boat ramp (with parking available) and the Army Corps of Engineers museum/base, there is a picnic area with 5-6 heavily weathered tables. I marked it with an "x" below:










I know Ulladh was planning to look into reserving a picnic location. This could be a good option, though it was not clear who manages that property. My guess is that it is part of the Army Corps property, since they are in charge of the boat ramp.

There were many boats anchored, and I saw the water taxi picking people up and dropping them off. I just called the marina and they said the water taxi is free(!) and will be operating in two weeks. Slips must be reserved and cost $2.75/ft on weekends. With the free water taxi I am definitely interested in anchoring out, and I am hoping someone is willing to raft.

One reason I may need to raft is I just discovered that my anchor light is out. It was working a couple months ago, and has not been used since, so I assume there's a faulty contact. I've traced the continuity, and it's definitely not at ground level - it's probably at the top of the mast. Although I have several things that I would like to work on at the masthead, I am not going to be able to get to it in the next two weeks. So I will either need to hoist a lantern up on the halyard or (preferably) raft with someone who has a working anchor light. (You'll be happy to know that I have a couple of 15" diameter fenders.)

By the way, we had a fantastic sail today riding the tide up to the Ben Franklin Bridge and back. Over the 7 hours we encountered a wide variety of conditions, so it was a good warm-up run for the trip down the river.

We also might want to collect some email addresses and cell phone numbers for attendees as a backup just in case SailNet goes down as the date approaches. I had been unable to access this site for the last few days.

By the way, I just noticed that the live music Saturday night is by "Big Package", and R&B/funk horn band. Their trombone player is an old friend of mine. (Most of you probably don't know that I'm a trumpet player.)


----------



## ffiill (Jul 15, 2010)

If you have never read them read Captain John Smiths books-this was his home territory in the early 1600s


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

This for the Marina.. the City harbor master's phone number I can't find for some reason. Maybe the marina can help with the number for him.

Marina | Chesapeake Inn

For more info please call (410) 885-2040 and ask for Andy. there is free tie up on the seawall docks and the city slips but you need to get there early in the day. Now that dredging is done?

Marina Rates
Transient Slip Rates
One Day $2.25 per ft Weekday, $2.75 per ft weekend
Weekly $0.95 per ft In-season, $0.75 per ft Off-season
Monthly $0.75 per ft In-season, $0.65 per ft Off-season
Holiday Weekends $3.25 per foot
Seasonal Slip Rates
27' and under - $2,700
28'-33' - $3,000
34'-39' - $3,300
*Includes electricity and water


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi Denise. I hope we'll get to see you there. Are you driving down? (Or maybe even coming by boat?)


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Don't know yet  sorry. there's like 5 things going on that weekend.. arrrg. decisions decisions!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

September 18 is approaching fast, hope see you all at Chesapeake City.
Potluck picnic at the picnic area at east end of the basin 3:00 PM, then get together Chesapeake Inn deck at 7:30 PM.

Great sailing weather after Earl passed, but as usual I have to work, and when I don't have work the breeze dies.

Rhythm
I use a Coleman lantern for an anchor light, turn up when I leave the boat to make it easy to find when returning to the boat in the dark. Turn down when on the boat with just enough light to be seen but not on display. Hang it off one of the shrouds using a spare halyard.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Gad, I'd love to come down in my boat! Most likely wont though, sigh. I'll feel guilty if I don't come to Chesapeake city since the idea of "Delaware River Sailors" was my idea initially!. I'll be there most likely! 

Things going on that very same day... ARRRG.. a crab fest, a birthday party, a "doo ***" night here where I live in Bristol PA, a ACB boat show on Barney bay, geeze.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Ulladh, 
As I'm too lazy to re-read all the thread.. what be the plans on the food, and set up for the picnic? who's playing chef... what to bring... who's dancing on the tables...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Shouldn't Chef2sail be playing chef... given his dayjob??


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
Your dancing, anybody want to donate a spinnaker pole for Denise to make it more interesting.
Potluck picnic, everybody is the chef. 
My contribution will be spanish tortilla, and paper plates.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Sailboatie ugly? LOL


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Saildog...just an FYI....my day job is not being a Chef...that would be T37chef..


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

SD is a slow learner, don't pay much attention to him, really. LMAO


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yeaah I see that...Looks like my wife isb working the weekend of the CBay and Delaware get together so we probably will not get there.

dave


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> ...I use a Coleman lantern for an anchor light, turn up when I leave the boat to make it easy to find when returning to the boat in the dark. Turn down when on the boat with just enough light to be seen but not on display. Hang it off one of the shrouds using a spare halyard.


OK, naive question here. Is this an electric or propane lantern? I had always assumed that the latter would be too hazardous (general flammability, heat melts the halyard, etc.). But just thought I'd ask if your experience is that it works fine.

For the time being, I purchased a small Coleman LED that seems to have the right balance of brightness and battery life. I could raise that up the shroud if needed, but still would be interested in rafting with someone.

We still have never dropped anchor before, so we might "put on a show" for all of you. I have a 13 lb. Danforth-type as primary and an 8 lb. Danforth that I could use for the stern if needed.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Coleman fuel (white gas), snap shackle around the shroud and lantern handle and haul to about my shoulder height.

The shackle is about 8" above the top of the lantern, if no breeze the shackle is warm to touch but not hot. 

Never really had it turned up high for long, a short length of light chain may be smarter, handle to snap shackle. Thanks Rhythm for prompting second thoughts.

I also use a coleman 2 burner camp stove in the cockpit, some day I tell myself I will install a Wallas stove/heater but that is more than $1,000. The stove has been in use camping and on the boat for more than 20 years.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've a force 10, 2 burner and oven unit in the galley, never used the oven.. the boat itself is an oven in the summer! On the other hand the little Magma grille has seen lots of use


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Practice anchoring off Little Tinicum, just watch your depth sounder, close to the island at low tide the depth can change from 9 to 2 ft in less than a dinghy length. Holding is stinky sticky, black/green/grey mud on north side, gravel/sand on south side facing the shipping channel, east and west ends are just too shallow, mud to west and gravel/sand to east.
Chesapeake City will be mud.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Gotta go out of town tomorrow, rain forecast for Sunday, so probably will not get a chance to practice anchoring. I have an anchor alarm in case I have to anchor alone, so you guys should be safe with me around.

BTW, I did finally get a name decal installed this week, so I'll be easy to recognize.

Are you still going down Fri.? Hope we can catch up to you, since low tide at Reedy Pt is ~1:30 IIRC.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

You can anchor with a brick in the cove  it's very slow water. Unless your by the little creek that comes in the back near the picnic tables.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey Ulladh, are you still targeting departure at 9:00 Friday? My friend has to drive up from his home in Chespeake City, and I think we'll be able to get out shortly after that, so we should have you in sight for the trip down.

What are your plans for dinner that night? Lori won't get down until around 8:00, so it will be just the two of us before then. Are you up for a late dinner after she arrives? By the way, my youngest son has a Boy Scout camping trip that weekend, so it will just be Lori and me.

After looking over the current predictions for Pea Patch Island, we are considering a very early departure Sunday morning. Peak flood is 0806, so if we left in the dark around 5:00 we should be able to hit it, even with fighting the current in the canal. (4 kt average gets us there by 0800.) Any thoughts on this?

In glancing over the responses, it sounds like you, me, and WWilson are the only ones coming by boat so far. Any others thinking about it? It will be great to get as many as possible for dinner Saturday, even if by land.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
Departing Essington Friday about 9:00AM at slack, and ride the ebb.
Arrive Chesapeake City late afternoon Friday, dinner at 8.

Depart Chesapeake City about 9:00AM at slack and ride the ebb to Reedy Point, Sunday morning, then against the ebb to about Wilmington, then ride the flood to arrive Essington before sunset.
The return trip will be against the tide for at least half the time, current in the canal is stronger than the river.

Forecast for Friday is overcast chance of showers, Saturday and Sunday clear high in upper 70's F, upper 50's F lower 60's F overnight.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

As much as I want to come by boat I'll be driving down


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> As much as I want to come by boat I'll be driving down


Just glad you can join us!


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'd feel awful guilty! it was my original idea to form up this "Delaware River Sailors" LOL


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

So hey.. they done dredging yet? Suggestion also.. up the hill is the "Tap Room" seafood eatery and bar. Maybe less expensive then the marina's bar prices. if you don't mind brown paper on the tables.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

May I suggest an earlier start to the picnic? If we "feed" at 3:30 and go to dinner at 7:30 the overlap is going to squelch the appetite a bit.

Is the potluck fare to be snacks? May we bring beer to the park? Sometimes that can be an issue.

Also - is there anything planned for Friday evening? We are planning to be anchored (or stuck in the mud) by 6:00 p.m.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> So hey.. they done dredging yet? Suggestion also.. up the hill is the "Tap Room" seafood eatery and bar. Maybe less expensive then the marina's bar prices. if you don't mind brown paper on the tables.


Bayard House is our favorite restaurant. I don't mind to go there (just sayin') But picnic or potluck is fine with me. I can ask the boss to make a crab dish for the occasion (crab imperial or garlic crabs).

When are we meeting on sat? I hope i will be back from Annapolis.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Potluck picnic 3:30PM Saturday at picnic area east end of basin.

Then get together 7:30PM Saturday at Chesapeake Inn deck. The deck because it is easy to find and visible from the basin.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh - Wayne's concern about the close timing of the picnic vs. the dinner is a valid one. I thought the 3:30 picnic was to accommodate late arrivals by boat, but it sounds like all 3 boats are arriving Friday. So we could do the picnic earlier Saturday, unless you know of other boats or land-based visitors arriving Saturday after 3, or the picnic grounds are not available earlier, or some other logistical issue that I'm not aware of.

I'll adjust my picnic food plans (lunch entree vs. snack food) based on the time of the picnic. Just let me know what you think is best. But I'd be fine with a lunchtime picnic instead.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm for real food and real outdoor cooking.. was only thinking a few drinks later in the evening. Just sayin....


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

bump


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> I'm for real food and real outdoor cooking.. was only thinking a few drinks later in the evening. Just sayin....


If you bring a grill I will bring meat


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Picnic at 3:30 leaves time to look around town. 
Adding a grill for the picnic would be nice, more food options.

My thinking on the get together at Chesapeake Inn deck is similar to Denise, drinks and appetizers.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Ok, that takes it to 3:40 LOL 

Darn shame Shaffer's is never going to be "the place" to go anymore.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Those of you staying overnight, up the hill is the "bakery" great breakfast place. If you need marine parts "collies" is nearby, the owner was so nice last year. he actually hand carried a racor filter to me on the dock while rowed over in the dingy. A feat equal to knights of old in my book!

Collies Marine Supply


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I have a portable gas grill that is free-standing (not attached to the boat), so I'll provide that. I'll also bring some marinated chicken to supplement rockDAWG's stuff.

Good point about the 3:30 picnic allowing time to look around town. Let's take our time and extend the picnic into a full dinner, then go to Chesapeake Inn for dessert/appetizers/drinks afterwards. Maybe that was the plan all along and I was too dense to realize.

Ulladh - You may want to edit the original post to make it clear to people that if they're driving down for dinner they should come to the picnic at 3:30.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> Darn shame Shaffer's is never going to be "the place" to go anymore.


My jazz band (the Rhythm Doctors, hence the userid) used to play at Schaffer's all the time. I miss that place.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Found some interesting yet rather old posts about the place here Schaefer's Canal House? - Topix

If yall had a larger boat I'd ask that we meet you in Essington and crew with you on the way  Logistics could be difficult though.

Hey.. are there live aboards down at your marina Rhythm?


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
Anchorage Marina, where Rhythm is, has liveaboards all year. Water is off when below freezing overnight, bathooms, shower and laundry is locked but open with marina pass card.

Essington does not freeze over, but drifting chunk ice can be a problem, liveaboards move to inner fairway slips for protection.

I have keep my boat over winter in water at Anchorage and sailed to 1st week of December and start again mid-March.

Fox's Grove Marina hauls in the floating docks early November after getting damage a few years ago from chunk ice broken up by the coal barges off Eddystone.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

A tad more south would be fitting I suppose.. just in Georgetown MD the winters seem somewhat less severe.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> A tad more south would be fitting I suppose.. just in Georgetown MD the winters seem somewhat less severe.


I'd be careful about that:










This was in Georgetown Yacht Basin. OTOH, there was no ice damage in Essington last winter.

You might recall my thread on this subject where I was taken to task for accidentally saying that "only power boats" were affected:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...06-boats-destroyed-marina-roof-collapses.html

The linked articles are gone. But are some other pictures of the destruction:

Maryland Marina Cover Slips Roof Collapse - BAYLINER® OWNERS' CLUB


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Damn that is a nice marina too. Snow load.. a force oft forgotten. but not many sailboats are under cover .


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

February 2008 at Essington


Cell phone image, blowing snow and about 4" snow ontop of ice on floating dock.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I have a portable gas grill that is free-standing (not attached to the boat), so I'll provide that. I'll also bring some marinated chicken to supplement rockDAWG's stuff.
> 
> Good point about the 3:30 picnic allowing time to look around town. Let's take our time and extend the picnic into a full dinner, then go to Chesapeake Inn for dessert/appetizers/drinks afterwards. Maybe that was the plan all along and I was too dense to realize.


OK, I can bring meat for BBQ and a TBD appetizer dish. Can I have a head count for people who attending the picnic. Are there dietary restriction fro anyone, please let me know. If I have to order the genetic-engineering Kosher pork, I need to order it soon. It take a few days get here. .

I prefer skip dinner, unless we move the picnic to an earlier time. Either case, I will not able to stay long for the dessert and drinks. I have curfew on Sat nite.
*
In the spirit of this social gathering event and the goodwill of the original poster, I need to retract and step back from my original statement. The PC statement should read this way:

For those who have any dietary restriction due to religion belief and life style practices such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Cao Dai, vegetarian, or Ceefoodism, please let me know, I will do my best to find something you can enjoy. You do need to let me know ASAP.

I hope the above will do and bring this back on track. Should you have other demand, please bring this offline and PM me. I apologize to the OP and all other fellow sailors.*


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Pretty offensive, krass, sarcastic and sterotyped STATEMENT,,,your genetic engineer pork comment.especially in light of the Saturday the day of the picnic being Yom Kippur the holiest day of the Jewish year. Some of actually treasure each others diversity instead of making fun of it

Maybe there is a reason why you need to sail alone. I will pray for your uneducated, prejudiced soul while in synagogue that day.

Dave

Dave


----------



## gershel (Feb 4, 2001)

I don't think he meant it that way. But I wish it could have been on a different day, so that I could attend. I'll probably be through there Tues.-Wed though, for a 3-4 week cruise on the bay.
Marc


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Pretty offensive, krass, sarcastic and sterotyped STATEMENT,,,your genetic engineer pork comment.especially in light of the Saturday the day of the picnic being Yom Kippur the holiest day of the Jewish year. Some of actually treasure each others diversity instead of making fun of it
> 
> Maybe there is a reason why you need to sail alone. I will pray for your uneducated, prejudiced soul while in synagogue that day.
> 
> ...


This is the battle that I do not need to win. I apologize for mentioning the phase "Genetic Engineering Kosher Pork" (although it has a tremendous marketing value, like veggie burger). It was very insensitive of me. However, one thing I can't agree with you is one can be prejudice regardless of one's education.

I appreciate you pray for my soul in synagogue, but no need. I am a scientist and don't believe in creation theory. I do like to study various religions for their philological value.

Peace on earth. I hope you are cool with this and be happy again.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Agreed education has nothing to do with prejudice. All is good. Thank you for responding.

Dave


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Now that is how gentlemen handle disagreements.

On diet retrictions; I desire red meat, pork and sugar, but avoid for health reasons. I am an omnivore but regret it the next day. OK with chicken and seafood, but for a brief moment of time will be in heaven with a bloody red rare steak.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Sushi... mmmmmm with wasabi of course


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Delaware Bay salties.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> Sushi... mmmmmm with wasabi of course


Sushi..... hmmm way overrated.  Oooop, I am in hot water if Micki Matsumoto reads this.

No sushi from me. I will not have enough time to get Sushi grade fishy since I have a 24 h sailing marathon to run on Friday. I will show up like a zombie with Wawa coffee in both hands.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Ulladh said:


> for a brief moment of time will be in heaven with a bloody red rare steak.


YEAH........ I need to talk :laugher

Studies showed, A rare steak produces less Kcal than a well done steak. Now we can have the 24 oz instead of 16 oz.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

rockDAWG said:


> ...Studies showed, A rare steak produces less Kcal than a well done steak...


I do not understand how this could be possible. As parts of the steak burn, calories are consumed, releasing off-gases into the air and grease and oils into the grill. A well done steak thus provides less fuel to your body than rare steak. You statement is like saying that a partially burned log has more energy value than an unburned one.

Do you have a citation for these studies?

Back on topic, here's a nice recent (post-dredging) review for the place that we're heading to. Hopefully the basin has not silted in yet.  :

Waterway Guide Discussion Board • View topic - Chesapeake City


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Just got this in my email today. This is what we would have enjoyed/endured if we had stuck with our original plan at Delaware City. No regrets, though:


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Hello captains. I am not able to make tomorrow afterall. I am still on my way to St Mary city. Just about passing Point no point now with tail wind of 10 to 12 kn with sog of 4 kn. Will sail thru tonite back to Annapolis by 5 pm. 
IPhone will due soon. 
Everyone have fun


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

rockDAWG said:


> Hello captains. I am not able to make tomorrow afterall...


Hmmm...I just saw this.

Ulladh and I arrived lasst night
, and are at the City dock. I think I saw Wayne's boat anchored.

I still have the grill that was going to cook rockDAWG's meats. If anyone coming by car wants burgers or other grilled food, bring it and I can cook it.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

BTW, I do have 6 marinated chicken breasts, so we probably do not need more meat. But I've got the grill if someone wants burgers or hot dogs instead.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Late input sorry.. doubt anyone will see this.. We are bringing dessert!


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Just got back from Synagogue. Would have liked to have met everyone.Have fun.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> Late input sorry.. doubt anyone will see this.. We are bringing dessert!


Denise - I hope you get this on a cell phone or sumthin. We had to move because of a wedding in the picnic area. We're next to Kilby's ice cream on the watefront, near Pell Gardens. Hope you find us. Ulladh & I are both docked at the free city dock.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

We made it! but got real stuck in traffic and got there late. I forgot bring Ulladh's phone number too.. We had fun just the same and sat at the tiki bar had pizza and beer as the band played.. I've never seen it so busy! 

enjoy your sleep over!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey everyone, we're home. I woke up early so we snuck out at 4:45 to catch the peak current on the canal. (I hope our motor didn't wake you, Ulladh!) We did 8 knots through the canal and were at Reedy Point by 6:15. But it was chilly! Almost no breeze (and noticeably warmer) on the river, so we motored up with a little assist from the mainsail. Once again currents were very friendly as we easily did 6.5-7 knots the whole way, and into the slip at 10 am. Much quicker than I ever expected.

It was great meeting Wayne and Sally and seeing Ulladh again. Denise - You were right under our noses and we couldn't find you! We were in a section where they weren't serving food, so if you had pizza it sounds like you were in a different area from us.

For those who missed it, I hope to meet you all in the future. Chesapeake City is a nice meeting point, even though the slog through the canal is very long is you're fighting the current (as we did on Friday).


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Really my fault for not bringing a phone number with me. duh.. (no blond jokes please!) 

Now you know the true meaning of "go with the flow"  

So hey, did you get a good close and personal view of a barge and tug on the canal? 


Anyway, lets start planning a winter get together! 

November?


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Hope you all have fun. I am sorry to miss you all. 

After a non-stop 32 hrs sailing, got back to Annapolis at around 5 p.m. yesterday safe and sound but a bit tired. I battled 20 to 25 stiff wind at midnite just off St. Mary River and the Bay alone. At 6 am the steering cable broke and put another spin on this trip. I had fun and great experience to have. 

Now I guess we will have the BBQ pork and garlic crab/crab cake for the next few days.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I forgot to mention a huge thank you to Ulladh for setting up our get-together, and for enduring all 19 pages of unsolicited advice on how to do it better.  It's always hit-and-miss with these things, but fortunately we had an enthusiastic core group that managed to show up - and even find each other! (Then there was Denise's group that showed up but didn't manage to find us.)

I would be up for something in November, though only by car, since my boat will be hauled by then. One possibility might be the new Riverwinds Restaurant in New Jersey - it would give us a chance to scout out their cove for a possible anchorage rendezvous next year on the Delaware:

Fine Dining - ..::The RIver Winds Restaurant::..


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Great meeting every one, how about a spring meet up?

Friday was perfect sailing weather 5 hrs Essington to Reedy Point, but poor time for the C&D produced a 4 hr slog fighting the barge wakes.

Left Sunday 6:00AM on the C&D ebb, got to Delware City at 8:30 AM for fuel (no fuel at Chesapeake City and no grocery store). Relaxing at the Delaware City Marina then on the river again at 9:30 AM.

Motored all the way to Essington and at the slip at 4:00 PM.

I will post photo's later.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Click for larger image;



Chesapeake City from the bridge



Anchorage



Town dock, Ulladh and Take Five



Sunrise departure on the C&D



Delaware City



Fort Delaware on Pea Patch Island



Catamaran sailor off Wilmington


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

so, how'd you get fuel Collin? Nice pictures!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Sorry we missed you Denise, we where at the section of the Tiki Bar over looking the town dock.

Got fuel at Delaware City fuel dock. It opens at 9:00 AM so I had time to relax at talk with the folks at the marina.

My 3 gallon tank was down to one gallon, not enough for comfort, filled the tank and arrived at Essington motoring all the way at 4.5 to 2.5 knots against the ebb with one gallon to spare.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I was bummed a little but it was fun hanging out there I love the place.. so many people there too! 

I like ricks' Idea! for the Nov. get together.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

November get together, Essington?
Its Ricks turn to organize.
The deck may be a bit chilly.

Colin


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

ever notice that Jersey seems to have the better coves and such? Everything is so damn silted in though.


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Just back from the Delaware Rendezvous. Glad to have met Collin, Rick and Lori and Jack of s/v _Dionysus_. Will post some more pics of the event that we took.










The Chesapeake City Bridge the 1st encountered eastbound.










Some pictures of Chesapeake City...




























SailNet crews at the picnic

The Boats...










_Take Five_ at the Town Dock










_Ulladh_ at the Town Dock










_Virginia Dare_ lying at anchor in 16' depth in Engineer's Cove. (For other deep draft boats - we saw no less than 12.5' on entry over the newly dredged entrance.)










_Dionysus_ lying at anchor in Engineer's Cove (a sister ship to VA Dare) Jack, her skipper has single handed her from Portland Oregon to Newport, RI and back down to the Chesapeake again...










The Chesapeake & Delaware Canal with Engineer's Cove shown on the right side.










The C&D Canal from Chesapeake City Bridge.










The container ship _Atlantic Impala_ passes westward through the C&D Canal, just prior to our exit from Engineer's Cove (happy to be in back of the beast!)










Homebound - westward - Sunday morning on the flood tide.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

interesting dodger/companionway tent on Take Five


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> interesting dodger/companionway tent on Take Five


It's a pretty nice option that makes it feel like a much larger boat.

Normal headroom in the boat is about 5'8", but with the pop-top up you get about 7' over the entire floor behind the dinette. The screened windows have roll-down Eisenglass in case of rain. With a screen under the front hatch, you get excellent ventilation through the cabin with no bugs.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

So hey? was the trip good Rick? But I told you not to go against the flow! (happened to me 2 yrs ago LOL) Gawd, that's a slog pushing against 3-5 knots the wrong way! And you didn't even need to drop the hook! 

I love watching boats trying to enter the cove when they aren't aware of how the current will sweep them past the entrance. "there goes another"!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> So hey? was the trip good Rick? But I told you not to go against the flow! (happened to me 2 yrs ago LOL) Gawd, that's a slog pushing against 3-5 knots the wrong way!


The trip was great! As Colin said, conditions were perfect for the sail down.

In the future I'm going to pay a lot more attention to NOAA's current tables, and not so much to the tides. Everyone says that the canal flows to the west on flood, but it's not that simple. I think there's a pretty significant time lag vs. the Delaware's flood. (For example, IIRC Reedy Point low tide was around 13:40 on Friday, but slack on the canal not until ~17:30.) I figured that out for the trip back and timed it just right. I wish I had given Colin some of my gas before I left, but I've done so little motoring - and was uncertain how many hours it would take - that I really did not know what my gas economy would be like. I have a lot better idea about that now.

Colin - Did you notice whether the town dock in Delaware City was open yet? I might be tempted to try a daysail down there for lunch if the weather and currents are perfect one weekend.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

No problem Rick

I wanted to stop at Delaware City anyway to check the actual dredge depth.

The dredge channel at the entrance to the old canal is very narrow. I came through close to high tide and and was getting between 7 and 15 ft on the sounder as I came in from Red 6A on a direct line to the Green daymark at the entrance. The entrance could use more than one day marker. On exit I took a line center of old canal and parallel to the ferry dock to the refinery dredge channel 35ft+ depth then turned to Red 6A and saw not less than 12ft on the sounder as I exited.

I would suggest for entering Delaware City stay in the refinery channel past Red 6A until you have a visual range into the old canal and stay centered on the canal as you enter, keep an eye on your sounder the entire way.

The partialy sunk dredge boat is still sitting in the town dock basin, and no boats at town dock. The government dock was in use (official use only), and marine police boats were at the ferry dock.

I stopped at the marina fuel dock for about an hour, and could have stayed longer. Cannot say for sure but I get the impression that if there is space you only pay if overnighting.

I did not hit the peak ebb tide until Cherry Island Flats, boat motor speed dropped from 4.5 to 2.5 until past Chester Island the I was back to 4.5 my normal motor speed close to slack.

Going slow along Cherry Island flats I noticed the edge (25ft riseing to 12ft)is well defined with a line of crab trap floats green can to green can. I hugged the edge of the flats to reduce travel distance.

DELAWARE CITY MARINA - WELCOME!

Current in refinery channel


----------



## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

Colin & Rick,

This is cruel after reading your slogs on the Delaware, but:










We rode that at least half way down the bay to Annapolis, before the Chesapeake brought a brutal 0.4 knot foul current to the bow. (under power)


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Anything less than 1 knot current I call slack tide.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

after a few years now I just don't even think of trying to go against the flow.. the ships, barges and tugs use the flow, so it's just good sense to use it for sailboats 

Last year coming back from the bay in when we reached Riverside area we were motor sailing with the flow doing about 9 mph. According to the handheld gps I have. I loved that!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> after a few years now I just don't even think of trying to go against the flow.. the ships, barges and tugs use the flow, so it's just good sense to use it for sailboats
> 
> Last year coming back from the bay in when we reached Riverside area we were motor sailing with the flow doing about 9 mph. According to the handheld gps I have. I loved that!


Most of what we do is daysailing with restricted hours due to work schedules. When we can turn around at slack water to go both ways with the current, we do that. But sometimes the timing will not allow that, and I try to beat with the current and run/reach against it if the wind is right. For example, yesterday evening was gorgeous, so I headed to the boat straight from work and Lori (who was dying to sail since we motored all day Sunday) met me there. We sailed from 5-7 pm, but slack water wasn't until around 7:30. So we beat downriver at 5 knots with the current, and ran/reached back against the slowing current at around 3.5 knots. So it can be done with planning and a little luck.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh sorry, I was meaning when traveling the river. my bad.. of course for day and evenings it's not a big issue. sometimes it's fun sailing without any headway.. (good to do some fishing I'd guess)


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Sailing without headway is what I do best.

But sometimes not a good place to be close the shipping channel.

A few years ago when I still had my leaky stinky Volvo inboard, I was sailing with minimal headway under the Commodore Barry main span with a tug/barge behind me. No problem I thought, turn the motor on and get out of the way. Motor turns over, no start, try again, nothing. Wake from the tug/barge has the potential to push me against the bridge pier.

A quick 180 and I am going in a controled drift with the current clear of the channel.

Rick when we left Essington on friday I was about to go under the Commodore Barry and a tug-tow-barge was approaching, I changed coures to go under the span between bridge pier and Chester fishing pier rather than be between the barge and bridge rip-rap.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> ...Rick when we left Essington on friday I was about to go under the Commodore Barry and a tug-tow-barge was approaching, I changed coures to go under the span between bridge pier and Chester fishing pier rather than be between the barge and bridge rip-rap...


I noticed that you stayed out of the main span. I just assumed you were trying to get a pic of the soccer stadium. From where I was I could not see that the barge was that close to you.

I went through the main span, but the wind died right as I was approaching and the current pushed me right toward the warning bouy. It made for a few nervous moments:


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Did not get a good photo of the stadium on Friday, better shot on Sunday.
The City of Chester is looking for a marina developer for the cove just down river from the stadium (currently sheet pile three sides but completly silted up at low tide).
I have a design team lined-up but no developer.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RhythmDoctor said:


> ...I would be up for something in November, though only by car, since my boat will be hauled by then. One possibility might be the new Riverwinds Restaurant in New Jersey - it would give us a chance to scout out their cove for a possible anchorage rendezvous next year on the Delaware:
> Fine Dining - ..::The River Winds Restaurant::..


We got in an unexpected sail today. With one forecast showing 35 mph gusts, I woke up assuming we would be landlocked. We headed down to the boat expecting things to be more than we'd want to handle, but found a pleasantly gentle breeze. So we grabbed hoagies at Wawa and headed out.

I finally got up the nerve to pull into the cove at Riverwinds. It might be a nice point for a Delaware River rendezvous. Colin and Denise - what are your drafts again? We went in at about MLLW+3', and found a minimum of about 8 feet at the entrance. So it might be a little tough for Denise getting in at low tide - hopefully she could time it for more water. Once inside we had about 11-12 feet at our mooring ball. (Note that my transducer is about 1' below the waterline.) It was a nice day, and there were about 4 boats when we entered, and about 12 boats - most of them rafted - when we left. One catch is that there is no marina or dock - you need to dinghy in to use their nice restaurant, beach, and walking paths. There were several people swimming, though I would not do that. It's an easy 1 hour sail from Essington, and could be easily reached from Bristol in a day. A bunch of powerboaters in my marina head over there for overnight anchorages.


----------

