# 1973 23ft venture MacGregor



## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Hello,

Could you give me your opinion on what I should pay for this boat? Below is the link. We stopped by and took a look at it. The trailer was just painted but a bit rusty. Its a bit warn as well overall but we don't have much money and are wanting to get on the water after 12 yrs of dreaming. Thank you for your help. Also, any thoughts on this models quality?

MacGregor Venture 23


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

They should give it to you. And you should refuse.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

I kind of have to agree... there are a number of boats of this vintage that were both better built and designed. Find a Cal 20 or 25, a Santana 22, a Ranger 23, an older J-22, etc... You might find a Tanzer 22 which will be a better boat. Sometimes cheap is just cheap. It looks like a nice trailerable idea, but it's not going to impress you at all with it's sailing performance performance.


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Hahaha. Can you elaborate?


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

The Venture's on the very bottom of quality. There has been much discussion on this site and elsewhere with regard to the merits of sailing a poorly built boat. There's no definite answer as to whether you should do it.

I've owned my share of older fiberglass boats. They all need work...repair and upkeep. I'd much rather spend my time working on a boat that was built properly instead of one that was built to be the cheapest possible. 

I guess it comes down to my taking sailing very seriously...the manufacturer ought to be as serious about building. Venture wasn't.


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Thank you Siamese that was really helpful.


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## sh009 (Mar 13, 2010)

I am new to the site and sailing so I am just starting to learn. My first question as an inexperienced sailor looking at the pictures of the boat would be, how much would it cost to dispose of it?

To my eye the motor might be of value but the rest looks fairly bad. Some amount (a lot?) of work would be involved before you could sail it. Not a problem if you can and want to do the work, but it doesn't look in shape to sail this weekend if that is your goal.

I have to agree with Siamese, unless its free I would pass, and if free my inexperienced self would want it surveyed. The cost of a survey may be less than the cost of disposal.

It will be interesting what other on this site with experience have to say.


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

I used to sail a Venture 24 by MacGregor. Macs were designed as an entry level boat to get families started. They were great for that but were generally built very light and didn't have many frills. Mine was over canvassed, under ballasted and had no provisions for reefing. The rigging was just one step above hardware store quality.

So the first thing I did was add a bigger rig, optimized the keel and rudder, beefed up the hull and deck where it counted. It weighed 2300lbs, had ~500lbs of ballast, over 300sqft of sail. It would make 10-11knots on a broad reach with 10knots of wind but that boat just about put my wife off of sailing forever... 

Catalinas, SanJuans, Santanas etc were all in the same class but built much better. In this economy you should be able to find a pretty decent trailer sailer that won't need a ton of work for cheap. I recently bought a Cal25 with trailer for 1k.


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## sailor50 (Aug 26, 2009)

Ventures are VERY TENDER! You will scare your family and guests and find yourself sailing solo or not sailing at all


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## Silverstreak01 (Oct 13, 2009)

u's guys, really keep us MacGregor owners laughing:laugher


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

SJ34 said:


> It would make 10-11knots on a broad reach with 10knots of wind


Not to be offensive, but if this were possibly true (and waterline physics says it isn't unless you're planing) your boat would easily sail faster than pretty much every non-planing boat built under 40+' in the past, well... forever.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Silverstreak01 said:


> u's guys, really keep us MacGregor owners laughing:laugher


Personally I don't have an issue with any boat maker. If a particular boat gets you on the water, you enjoy sailing it, it suits your venue and goals, etc... that's pretty much what it's all about.


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Thank you all for the feedback. I have thus expanded my search and found some other makes and models that might have better reputations. They include the 23 Kells, 22 tanzer, 22 Oday and 22 Catalina. The links are below if you want to take a look and let me know your thoughts. Thanks again.

For Sale 23' Kels Sailboat
Sailboat O-Day 22
Catalina 22 Sailboat. Complete.
1972 Tanzer 22 sailboat for sale in New York


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I would say the biggest issue is the trailer rust looks a bit beyond a coat of paint 

The cracked hull areas in one picture are of concern as to how much of the boat is affected by this


In looking at the other boats i can see your trying to start of with a low cost boat BUT you have to keep in mind that

"The cost of the Repiar has nothing to do with the cost of the boat "


While your labor can resolve a lot of things parts still cost money


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

puddinlegs said:


> Not to be offensive, but if this were possibly true (and waterline physics says it isn't unless you're planing) your boat would easily sail faster than pretty much every non-planing boat built under 40+' in the past, well... forever.


On a broad reach-run in 10-12 knots of breeze and in the right sea state it would out run most boats up to mid 40 footers. At 13 knots it would bury the mast in the water and below 10 knots it was limited to hull speed. Do the math Puddlin, 300 sqft of sail area and 2300lbs displacement. The 24 also had a hull that was conducive to surfing if you could keep it upright.

No offense to MacGregor owners, I loved that boat and only sold it because I had to. Just stating the facts in my earlier comments.


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## BONESDILLIGAF (Mar 12, 2010)

I have a Venture 21,
is it the best boat out there? absolutely not.
I bought it on the cheap, but the boat was sailing, and sound.
All I needed to do (personal choice really) was throw a coat of paint on it, and freshen up the bright-work.
Now i am not a trailer sailor, I keep it in the water on a lake. 
I am an inexperienced sailor, so this is my starter boat.

If I had a choice, I think I would have bought a slightly bigger boat instead, maybe something with a larger cabin and head. Truth is I am mostly single handing the boat, with only my puppy for company because of the boat's size.

I can honestly tell you from my experience limited as it is, that you really need to look at the space on deck if this will be for a family. I can fit 4 people, but it is uncomfortable for long periods. A 23' in a bit larger, but just keep in mind that no one wants to be in the cabin...lol

I hope that helps you a bit. The people on here are really helpful, and there is a thread where people are volunteering their time to actually help buyers check out prospective boats. I am looking for a new boat as well, I want to move to sailing the Hudson river next.

I have been looking here Sailboat Listings - sailboats for sale

there is a few boats on there in your price range.

here is one... 1979 ODAY sailboat for sale in Rhode Island

good luck

~BONES~


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

A Newport 23 (aka Venture 23, aka Venture of Newport 23, aka Mcgregor Venture 23, aka... you get the idea) isn't a bad little boat. A cutter rig, decent accomodation, low cost. Tender? I dunno. A member here, Heinzir, has had some real adventures in his, and would probably be happy to give you some first hand info. Send him a pm.

Slideshow of pictures, photos, and videos, from webshots

Regarding the boat in your link, what is the asking price?


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

SJ34 said:


> On a broad reach-run in 10-12 knots of breeze and in the right sea state it would out run most boats up to mid 40 footers. At 13 knots it would bury the mast in the water and below 10 knots it was limited to hull speed. Do the math Puddlin, 300 sqft of sail area and 2300lbs displacement. The 24 also had a hull that was conducive to surfing if you could keep it upright.
> 
> No offense to MacGregor owners, I loved that boat and only sold it because I had to. Just stating the facts in my earlier comments.


Let me copy and past my own post, the important part bolded for your pleasure! :

and waterline physics says it isn't *unless you're planing*

Done 17 kts in a Moore 24 (2050lbs, 123 sf main + 397 sf spin....) surfing. Large waves, 25 kts of breeze. Not 10 kts. Let's just say I'm still skeptical of your claim. But enough highjacking for the both of us. I think the OP found some good ideas that might be more worth his while.


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

So just to be clear the most of you feel the MacGregor is a bottom of the line, poorly made/rigged boat? Is it like the ford of boats (though I know this has changed a bit over the years)?


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

no... more like the AMC of boats. That said, there's a mint Gremlin in the neighborhood that still oddly cool.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*MacGregor = Hobby Starter kit*



luvoceanlife said:


> So just to be clear the most of you feel the MacGregor is a bottom of the line, poorly made/rigged boat? Is it like the ford of boats (though I know this has changed a bit over the years)?


OK, lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
In the 23'-27' range most of the sailboats are fairly similar in construction and rigging (with a few exceptions of course), they are basically entry level pocket cruisers, and are built to be affordable to the first time buyer. MacGregor just happens to have cornered the market in this niche, so there is no shortage of them. If you check the factory site you will see they are contructed cookie cutter production line style. This cuts back on manufacturing costs and makes the boat affordable. They are not intended for heavy bluewater use but rather inland lake or protected coastal waters. The light construction and cookie cutter fabrication earns them a bad rep but never the less they are popular and get folks out there on the water for their first time.
I bought a 2003 26M MacGregor brand spanking new in 2003 but I have had to spend almost the boats original value to finish building my hobby starter kit boat and add all the extra finishing touches, like electronics and extra rigging and sails and everything else you can think of. Still the boat gets me all over the Puget Sound, San Juans & Gulf Islands and the Georgia Strait, so it is sturdy enough for my venue. It may not be blue water but the Georgia Strait can get pretty snotty & ugly when Mother Nature throws a tantrum. MacGregors are what they are but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are bottom of the barrel because they sell every boat that is manufactured and they build two or more per day, people _*are*_ buying them.


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## DropTop (May 7, 2009)

$200

I came up with that because the engine is probably worth $700, and it'll cost you $500 to dispose of the hull


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

Luvoceanlife, how is the search for a sailboat going?


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## luvoceanlife (Jan 25, 2010)

Thank you for asking. Its going pretty well. So far I'm figuring out what I don't want to buy. Also, a spouse of one of my coworkers has been mentoring me and provides sound advice. Thus far I've been considering hte Mac 25, 26S ansd 26D. Not sure how I feel about the water ballast so I'm still thinking on it. Also was considering the Cat22, Hunter 23 and Oday 222. I will first need to save more money for the right boat. That has been one of my first lesson. The other thing I am going to stick with is the year the boat was built. I think I'd like to go 1985 to the present for what I'm looking for. So that is where I am. Have you been able to get out much yet?


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

I have friends who have the 25 and 26. The 26 has pretty decent performance and is very roomy but I just can't get my head around intentionally flooding a boat.
The 25 is also a decent boat but the keel needs work. My 24 had a swing keel that was an excellent starting point for the mods I made. It was encapsulated iron (not so great) but had a nice bulb'ish shape to start with. The 25 has a pretty cobby hunk of iron. It can be modified if you're handy with epoxy.

We were able to sail to Scorpion Cove at Santa Cruz Island for the Memorial Day Holiday. The bottom there is very soft sand and we made three attempts to set a hook. The wind shifted 180 degrees 4 times on Sunday and wrapped the chain around the anchore in a pretty nice snarl. I reset that evening with bow and stern anchors for a solid set the rest of the weekend. Weather was mid 70's all weekend with enough breeze to keep the brine flies away.

Had a little drama sunday when a small powerboat drifted into us while I was cooking dinner below. He was dragging an 8lbs fishermans anchor and a 5gal. bucket of cement on about 20' of rode in 20' of water. He was drifting out to sea when his anchor snagged our rode and used it as a zip line to our bow. There was nobody on board the powerboat so I had to go ashore and find the owners. They were camping .5 mile inland, completely oblivious. Their neighbors knew who I was looking for because they had been having trouble anchoring all day. Their Sevylore pool floaty was flat so they commandeered an unattended kayake to get to the boat. 

The next morning they were tied up to the Park Service buoy.


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## Windpower (Jan 25, 2017)

Silverstreak01 said:


> u's guys, really keep us MacGregor owners laughing:laugher


Was wondering if Silverstreak01 is still on here and/or if there are any other MacGregor owners on this forum?


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Windpower said:


> Was wondering if Silverstreak01 is still on here and/or if there are any other MacGregor owners on this forum?


Silverstreak hasn't posted on Sailnet in 3 years. I doubt you will be hearing from him.


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## Silverstreak01 (Oct 13, 2009)

Well now, just because I'm not posting doesn't mean I'm not lurking. :laugh


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Silverstreak01 said:


> Well now, just because I'm not posting doesn't mean I'm not lurking. :laugh


Glad to see you still here.


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## Azzarac (Sep 30, 2011)

Windpower said:


> Was wondering if Silverstreak01 is still on here and/or if there are any other MacGregor owners on this forum?


Hey Windpower. '97 X Macgregor sailor reporting in.


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