# Blue Water Cruiser



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My boyfriend and I are looking to purchase a yacht to go blue water crusing in. We hope to spend no more than $100000 and so have been looking at Beneteau36CC''s or Bavarias. Does anyone out there have any experience of either of sailing either of these yachts long distance? or can anyone suggest viable alternatives?


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## Keyne (Aug 28, 2001)

Check out a Hallberg Rassy 35 or 36 (Used). They make great blue water cruisers.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

One thing I would suggest as well.. if you have a strict $100k budget. Make sure you buy a boat for about $50k. It could cost you another $50k to get out and cruising, given all of the maintenence and etc. that is involved. You may need to upgrade your sail inventory, replace/overhaul the diesel, repaint the bottom/topsides, replace or rework the wood, replace the stove, etc.. Make SURE you know what is necessary before you buy. Marine outfitting can cost a bundle.

At the very least, don''t go any higher than $75k, as $25k is a small safety margin on a used boat purchase.

And make sure you hire an independant surveyor who has no affiliation to the broker before you buy.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Neither of these are boat that I would normally think of as ''blue water'' boats. They are both high production models with trade-offs aimed at a price conscious market.

There are Beneteau models that I would be comfortable taking offshore but the 36CC is not one of those models. This is a model that appears to be aimed at coastal cruising rather than offshore voyaging under sail. The first clue comes if you look at the layout of the 36 CC. There is not a single real seaberth on board. They come standard with a roller furling mainsail which to me is another clue that this is not intended as an offshore boat. (You just about can''t rig a storm trisail on a roller furler mast.)It si very hard to do a proper offshore yacht with a center cockpit in a length shorter 40 feet.

I was very curious about the Bavarias myself. The Bavarias had gotten a lot of ink. As a result I spent a fair amount of time going over a couple different models. I found the Bavarias very disappointing in many ways but was especially disappointed at the build quality (which I expected to be on a scale with Dehler but its wasn''t) and with the detailing and build quality. I see these as pretty much on the par with the big three boats; Beneteau, Hunter, or Catalina and maybe a smidge below. 

I agree with the earlier suggestion that you set aside approximately 20-30% of your boat buying budget for repairs, upgrades and fitting out of a boat that you intend to take offshore. There are plenty of good boats out there within your budget. 

Good luck
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeff, can you suggest boats in the 38-40ft range, 1980 or newer, under $80K that would be suitable for cruising and bluewater "capable"? I am not seeing many at all. Do you see any listed on YW now in our region?

Regards,
John


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Well I guess the answer depends on what you consider a boat suitable for cruising and bluewater "capable". (I know we have exchanged email but I am drawing a blank at the moment so I am assuming that you are on the Chesapeake.) There does not seem to be as many boats out there as there was last year at this time, but what is out there represents a pretty wide range of choices. Here are some of the boats that I saw on YW:


Farr 38asking $49,000)
At the performance end of your posibilities is a sistership of the Farr 38 (Farr 11.6) that I just bought. This boat is in Annapolis and neat boat with a lot of gear BUT this particular one is a crudely finished and would need some work to bring her up to yacht condition. She just cruised in this summer from South Africa on her own bottom with the Owner doing the leg from Cape Town to the Vigin Islands single handed. He averaged 175 miles a day for the fist 10 days and 150 mile days for the whole trip including the Duldrums. She''s a bit of a project but essentially a good boat. 

C&C 40 (In Connecticutt $79,900)
A little down in speed and ease of sailing from the Farr but a nice solid boat capable of good performance. Beautiful boats to look at and nice boats to sail. Some had a very yacht like interior while others were stripped out racers. 

C&C Landfall 38 ($77,900)
These were good all around boats. They probably are not as fast, sturdy or attractive as the C&C 40 but OK boats. 

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 40 (79,500)
I am not sure what to say on this one. They are held in pretty high regards. I don''t like the teak decks and I am not a big fan of Pedrick''s work during this period.

Morgan Brewer 38 (382) ($40,000 -$55000)
These are certainly venerable boats. They sail reasonably well and good looking boats but are not good in light air. They are safe bets in the cruising department. 

If you want to get extreme in the serious no-hold-barred cruising boat department, there is a green Steel Hulled Colvin Schooner at Jabin''s Eastport Yard (second street) that looks to be a go anywhere boat. 

Also at that end of the scale is a 39 foot Colin Archer Ketch for $79,900

At the risk of starting a food fight, I would also include the Cheribini designed Hunter 37 (1981-1985)($38,000 to $48000). These are really pretty good boats. I would put them on a par with the Morgan 38''s but they are way cheaper. 

Just a couple suggestions.
Good luck
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jeff, thanks for the suggestions, they are all good ones. Will have to check out the Colvin online. And, great to hear from you. We have chatted about the Morgan 382, which I have thought about in the past. 

Your choices were on my long list, but I am discounting the C&C''s because they are balsa cored. I may revisit this, because they are such good boats. I think the 40 has too deep a draft though. I still like the Morgan, but have just not been too impressed with the cabin joinery. 

I was thinking the Cheoy Lee Pedrick and am looking at it on Friday. I was wondering if you were going to include the O''Day 40 (very comfy but coastal only? and cored as well) or an Endeavour 40 (slow but nice below, heavy and perhaps stable?). 

And... the Jeanneau 40. Not bad all around. Some people like them, others put them with Hunters. (I know there is another thread on Jeanneau''s here).

???


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

There are 2 Oday 40''s. One is an aft cabin sloop and the other is a sistership (of sorts) of the Jeaneau 40. I have not been a big fan of either of the O''Day 40''s. The aft cabin design is a simple boat that had a lot of popularity. I have never sailed on one but have seen them under sail and never been impressed with their sailing ability. My recollection of the interior were a little plastic-y. 

The aft cockpit Oday 40 is a issue with me. They were a reasonable attempt at a performance cruiser. They had a nice workable layout and seemed to be reasonablly well thought out. That said their hull and rig design were heavily negatively influenced by the IOR rule and as such reduced their appeal to me. They are very similar boats to the Jeanneau Sun Fizz 40 which used the same hull tooling. 

Jeanneaus are hard boats to classify. They always seem to not as well constucted as Beneteaus (or Hunters and Catalinas for that matter) My exposure to these boast have been less than positive. Yet, that said Jeanneaus seem to have a strong following and I know that people have done a lot of distance cruising in these boats. 

My Mother had a brand new Endeavor 40. She basically liked the boat as a live-aboard and island cruiser. During the time that they owned the boat there were a fairly large amount of what I would classify as build quality issues. I thought that the deck hardware was undersized and poorly laid out. They sail reasonably well in winds over 12 knots and less than 20 kts. I thought they had a really uncomfortable motion. Still these were a lot of boat for the money. If I remember right they were designed by the same Johnson that went on to design the Island Packets.

Good hunting.
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, I took a quick look at Yachtworld''s (http://www.yachtworld.com) used sail section, with just ''sail'' and ''80,000'' dollars as the top limit, there were 6782 records. Oof.

In just a glance over these entries, though, I saw a few promising items..a steel cutter.. a benetteau(sic)... etc. The 40-45 foot range boats look in good shape. Big price ranges too.

It may be too many choices, but you could start there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

JH - you were right about the O''Day and I do think the Endeavour 40 is far too sluggish.

The Cheoy Lee was interesting, nicely built and nicely laid out. The gelcoat looked like it was worn out and cracking though ... the owner had simply painted over much of it. The owner also just dabbed some 5200 on the tops of some screws on the toerail, probably in an effort to stop a leak. Not good. And the teak decks... nice ...but .... you just know you will have to write a big check some day. 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Will have to see the Jeanneau 40 and C&C 38L and see if they grab me. Mostly likely not though.

Have you seen an Albin Nimbus 42? Nice lines.

BTW, if you are wandering around Annap tonight, there is a terrific Union 36 tied up in Ego Alley. It has just come out of a yard where she was ''gripped and had the deck done (using the original teak). Gorgeous. Had a nice chat with the owner. 

Regards,


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

John

this is a bit off from the sloops you''ve been looking at, but friends of mine have just spent 59 days sailng this summer on their 1986 Freedom Cat Ketch. They went from Oyster Bay, NY to Block Island; Nantucket; Martha''s Vineyard etc...

I met them in Block Island for the Freedom Rendezvous and got to race on a Freedom Cat Schooner. We took first in our division. Both the Ketch and Schooner have Pearson designed hulls and are very fast, easy to sail and very manageable in heavy air.

I recently had an opportunity to sail the Cat Ketch in 20+ knot winds on the north shore of LI and was absolutely amazed at how well balanced the boat is. We had both the mizzen and main up with single reefs and we flew. When the puffs came, we just heeled another 2 degrees and kept sailing straight ahead. Their was rarely a tendency to round up.

They are selling the boat for $83,000 (Buc and Nada show values of $89k to $92K). This boat is in truly Bristol condition, inside outside and underwater. I would definitley classify this boat as blue water capable.

If you''re interested, contact me at [email protected] and I''ll get you more information.

Captain Ron


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

One minor point, neither Freedom was designed by either of the Pearson brothers.The schooner was actually designed by Ron Holland, the ketches (depending on which model) was designed by either Gary Hoyt or Halsey Hereschoff. 

Jeff


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

Another minor point: the Pearson''s were cousins, and the confusion may be that Everett''s Tillotson-Pearson Co. (now TPI) at one time made the Freedom line of boats, but no more.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It is encouraging to see that there are still Americans with a 100k budget
at this time of economic crisis.
Whatever it is consider yourself lucky to be in the position to choose, however there is a big problem with the choices.
when you invite everyone to get in on your act, you just plain loose control of your emotions.
You are going to be soleley responsible for the choice of vessel you make, and in the end, your boyfriend will probably will have to scratch his head when the time comes to write the check.
Hell enjoy the ride, go and look and stop worrying so much about perfection, it just plain does not exist.
You will in the end buy what you are destined to buy regardless of all this retoric, just make the decision overcome your fear and plunge.
If you mess up, the first time you will just have to do it agian. Sailing is fun, don't take the pleasure out of buying your boat because you decide to be knitpicker.
Plunge!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

brendita
"It is encouraging to see that there are still Americans with a 100k budget at this time of economic crisis."

Maybe not - you replied to a post 8 years old.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> Maybe not - you replied to a post 8 years old.


:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## snader (Sep 10, 2010)

I have a Catalina 320 and been lots of times in 15-20 feet seas in the coast of Chile. Winds above 30knots. I always felt safe. I know plenty of things can go wrong but hey, after all, it is part of sailing. I am confident enough that will make an offshore passage in march with 5 other boats. It will be a "controlled" situation. The thing that worries me more is the draining of the cockpit and the big companionway door. I am definitely will do some work there. Being alone offshore for long periods of time...not sure.


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## teddier1 (Apr 8, 2008)

My wife and I have sailed a 2001 Bavaria 37 on lake erie for 4 years and have been very happy with the boat. Several of our friends own Beneteaus and the quality of the build on the Bavaria seems superior especially the interior wood work. We recently purchased a CAL 49 and will be moving onto it in SC in 18 months. The Bavaria can be seen on 

Commercial Link to advertisement by member with less that required # of posts removed.


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