# So... How big is a "blue water" boat?



## dieselboy (Aug 29, 2009)

Man, i have heard it all so far.. There is a guy i met who told be he sailed his 25' Hunter to Cuba! I think he figured out i though he was full of it so, he brought me a bunch of Pictures. Either he is REALLY good at photo chop or he did sail that thing from Houston to Cuba..
Any way while i dont think a 25' Hunter is "Blue water" what is?? WHY????

These are things i ponder while i look at these MASSIVE sail boats next to mine that seem to have been forgotten by their owners. I am always sad when i work on my boat because there are so many other " much nicer boats" around me that would and could be magnificent if some one just cared for them. 
I believe every boat has a soul and the neglect just pains me.

Anyway.. 
How big and why? are we looking for a particular draft? Dead weight?
A wider beam? 

Thanks to all of you for all your help and to put up with my stupid questions..


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## southshoreS24 (Aug 31, 2009)

i think to define some general guidelines as to what is a bluewater boat you have to define what is bluewater (not possible as each person has a different definition, so maybe just go with offshore more then, oh say 25miles?) and then what the boat has to be capable in those waters. 

any boat can be sailed anywhere with the right weather. there in lies the rub....


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## dieselboy (Aug 29, 2009)

Around here blue water means Well not murky brown/green water which is almost 15 miles out in the gulf of mexico where the wind is scary and the water rather deep.

How about.. I want to sail to St Croix what should i sail? would my 29 foot do it ? Or should i say would i want to do it... lol
I saw a chey truck with 55 gal drums make it from Cuba before that does not mean i want to try it. :laugher


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

Well, the first response is that there are a million posts on this and other forums about this same issue including one I posted about my Catalina 36. Try searching "blue water", that oughta do it. Basically though (and others may correct me), it has more to do with design and construction than it does with size. Pacific Seacraft makes (made) boats from 20-31 feet which are considered blue water capable while a Hunter 40+ may be questionable. Entire books have been written about favorable design elements such as sail area/displacement ratio, self-righting ability, etc. A VERY knowledgeable response to my "can I make my Catalina 36 blue water capable" thread brought up elements of construction. Basically, what happens to your light coastal crusier when it falls off a 30' wave or flips over. Will the tankage & cabinetry stay in place? Are they bonded to the hull or just screwed in? Stuff like that. Given 10 knots of wind & 2 foot seas, ANY boat can sail around the world. Many boats not designed or built to take the rigors of heavy weather have, by luck or good planning, made extensive voyages. But these are the exceptions rather than the rule. Generally, a boat which is designed and constructed for potentially heavy weather and which is of a manageable size for the intended crew makes a good blue water boat.

Mike


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Most would expect a bluewater boat to be able to perform well in harsh weather. With today's weather forecasting abilities we can expect to consistantly predict three safe weather days in the immediate future. Therefore, at ninety miles from Florida, a passage to Cuba would not require a bluewater vessel. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

I don't understand the question? "What is a blue water boat?" There simply is no such thing as a blue water boat. There are only blue water sailors. Millions of $ cannot buy a blue water boat, but a blue water sailor can sail a dingy across an ocean. Look at Capt. Bligh, he sailed an open lifeboat full of sailors across 1600 miles of open ocean. I could do it my self in a rubber raft, if I could remember what I was doing out here in the middle of the sea without my honey and where are my glasses? Now repeat after me; "It is not the size of the tool that counts. It is how well you use it" And I know where of I speak.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Webb Chiles is off again round the world in a Drascombe Lugger. OK he is a very experienced blue water sailor but it is an open boat somewhere around 20 feet long. 

Shane Acton made it round in a 18 foot Caprice plywood bilge keeler with no sailing knowledge to begin with AT ALL! He had not even had the mast up when he left from Cambridge. He learned as he went along.

The seamanship matters more than the boat IMHO.


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

I completely agree with TQA and Captn Fred. Its the boat and the sailor. Could someone make it across the Atlantic in a Hunter 25? If adequately modified and superbly skippered, of course. Could someone not make it to Catalina island on a Swan 45? Certainly, if he (or she) was an incompetent dodo. 
There is no hard and fast line, its a continuum and you have to gauge where the skipper and the boat fall along that.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

genieskip said:


> I completely agree with TQA and Captn Fred. Its the boat and the sailor. Could someone make it across the Atlantic in a Hunter 25? If adequately modified and superbly skippered, of course. Could someone not make it to Catalina island on a Swan 45? Certainly, if he (or she) was an incompetent dodo.
> There is no hard and fast line, its a continuum and you have to gauge where the skipper and the boat fall along that.


While I somewhat agree with the above sentiment and I don't claim to be that bluewater sailor, I also believe there is only so much a "bluewater sailor" could do to keep a non-bluewater boat intact, should it encounter truly bad weather.

For me (perhaps a sea-chicken), a bluewater boat is defined as one that I would willingly be more than 2 days from a safe port aboard.

With todays forecasting, its relatively easy to accurately forecast 3 days ahead. Further out than that, it becomes increasingly difficult and I wouldn't want to be on a boat designed as a coastal cruiser without the ability to run for cover if the weather window was closing. I'd want something substantially more robust than the typical production cruiser if I was further offshore than that.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Capt.Fred said:


> I don't understand the question? "What is a blue water boat?" There simply is no such thing as a blue water boat. There are only blue water sailors. Millions of $ cannot buy a blue water boat, but a blue water sailor can sail a dingy across an ocean. Look at Capt. Bligh, he sailed an open lifeboat full of sailors across 1600 miles of open ocean. I could do it my self in a rubber raft, if I could remember what I was doing out here in the middle of the sea without my honey and where are my glasses? Now repeat after me; "It is not the size of the tool that counts. It is how well you use it" And I know where of I speak.


Capt Fred, I can agree with you about 50%. There are boats, like a Hunter 25, that are clearly not capable of enduring a storm at sea. I also know where of I speak, having been through two Force 10 storms and one hurricane at sea - a Hunter or Bayliner or open lifeboat or ..., would not have made it through, regardless of the sailors


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

How big a blue water boat is?? That depends on the size of your bathtub.

And how much you have upgraded you boat and your skills at survival on the big ponds.


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## Stiche (Oct 5, 2006)

DB-

A Hunter 25? Wow. I can get pretty close to that though. How about a Cal 25? There have been a few (at least) that have been modified and successfully circumnavigated the globe. I've heard one story of a guy who sailed a Cal 25 from San Diego to Hawaii in 21 days. 

I believe the most common modification was to the rudder, which won't make it without modification. Extra bulkheads, stringers, and strengthen the keel, and around the world you go. 

The Cal 25 is surprisingly strong and handles well...not sure that I'm up to the task in mine, but hey, my idea of a good time is sails up, beer in hand and my GPS pointed to nowhere!


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

*About this big . . .*



MikeinLA said:


> Basically, what happens to your light coastal crusier when it falls off a 30' wave or flips over. Will the tankage & cabinetry stay in place? Are they bonded to the hull or just screwed in?


Yep, I reckon that's a good synopsis. And I also agree with John. A good sailor can't stop a breaking 30ft wave from smashing the side of a weak boat in and no sailor is good enough to guarantee 100% avoidance of extreme conditions.

We are after all talking about open ocean and whilst I subscribe to the theory that the sea holds no malice, it can also be innocently brutal.


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

By golly some of you nice folks out there just don't get it. There is no majic bullet blue water boat. There is no nice warm cozy boat like your mom was to protect you. A blue water sailor would not take an unseaworthy boat to sea. However a blue water sailor could be pretty creative if he found a mangled derelict of a boat floating were he was swimming unintentionally at sea. After all that is why he is a blue water sailor. He has learned through the road of hard knocks to THINK out side the box! Amongst other honed instincts. Bless ya'll.


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

A Danish guy (Svend Billesbølle) did one and a half circumnavigation in an 18' Lynæs Senior (aka Midget class in the Netherlands, and Nordica-class in North America). Not to mention Serge Testa (12 foot)


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Capt.Fred said:


> By golly some of you nice folks out there just don't get it. There is no majic bullet blue water boat. There is no nice warm cozy boat like your mom was to protect you. A blue water sailor would not take an unseaworthy boat to sea. However a blue water sailor could be pretty creative if he found a mangled derelict of a boat floating were he was swimming unintentionally at sea. After all that is why he is a blue water sailor. He has learned through the road of hard knocks to THINK out side the box! Amongst other honed instincts. Bless ya'll.


True there's no "magic bullet" bluewater boat, but there are a slew of "don't go in harms way in them" boats and anyone who goes deep into the blue with them had better hope to be damn lucky. On the other hand, there are a large number of stoutly built boats that will see a good sailor through a blow.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

*Cuban Pacific Seacraft*

Here is a nice blue water boat makings its way in the opposite direction. From Cuba to the states.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Okay - c'mon. I'm with you guys on the light weight boat off a 30' wave scenario...to a point. But what "blue" boat out there is going to be just fine in a roll?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

These discussions always strike me as the sailing equivalent of the medieval "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" As has been said above, the answer depends:
· Your definition of "blue water"<O</O
· How good a sailor you are,<O</O
· How much risk you are willing to assume.<O</O
<O</O

Anecdotally, there are bunches of stories of this guy or that gal sailing the moral equivalent of a tea cup around the world. Does this mean that sailing a teacup around the world is a good idea? I don't think so. By the same token there is a recent phenomena that just plain baffles me where brand new, know-nothing sailors go off and buy 45/50 footers as their very first boat and plan to sail around the world. And before they've sailed a single serious passage, or gotten hammered by their first gut-wrencher of a storm, they swear that this is the smallest boat that is safe to sail around the world. <O</O
<O</O

To me, anyone seriously contemplating serious blue water sailing better have spent a bunch of time coastal cruising and getting to know almost reflexively how to sail out of any mess they get into. People would not do surgery or fly a plane without learning how to do so through a rigorous apprenticeship (by any other name). Yet they are perfectly comfortable setting off into the wild blue yonder on whatever plastic (or metal) fantastic they happen to justify owning. <O</O
<O</O

I understand that going voyaging always includes a bit of the Dirty Harry factor (as in "How lucky do you feel? Punk") But making a careful and thoughtful decision before getting your head handed to you on a silver platter seems to make a lot more sense than trying to wrestle your way out of hell in a leaky basket. It makes a lot more sense than wrestling against the huge forces of a big boat before you learn how to work with them. It makes a lot more sense than trying to survive in a boat that is the poster child for "how big is thy seas and how tiny is my boat". <O</O
<O</O

Almost any decent boat, with a touch of luck can make almost any passage that it can carry enough supplies to keep the skipper and crew alive, assuming that is that the worst does not happen. And experienced distance cruisers tell us that the worst rarely does happen. It's the lottery in reverse. 

<O</O
<O</O
And since you can't be certain that you won't be the one who won the negative lottery and in other words, you can't be certain that you won't have to be the one to prove that you really can claw off a lee shore in a full gale in a Lead Bobber 24, then you better pick the most suitable boat you can find and make every effort to make sure that boat is in good shape and that you know how to sail it.

<O</OPretty much all studies of marine disasters have shown that length matters (at least up to a point), more than any other parameter, in the likelihood that a boat will survive a bad storm. Robustness is important because no matter how long your boat started out it had better hold together and keep water out and the rig up. Stability counts because there are cases you need to be able to carry enough sail to keep sailing no matter how much wind you are in. And lastly you need to have enough displacement to carry all the supplies and gear that you need to carry to make the passage. 

<O</OWhich gets us back to the original question of how small a boat makes sense for offshore use. In a general sense, if you plan to do distance voyaging offshore, you need 2 ½ to 6 tons of displacement per person to carry enough stuff to keep them alive. If you go modern with your cruiser then you end up with an L/D somewhere less than 200 or if you go more traditional you end up with an L/D somewhere above 250. There is no excuse for an L/D any higher than 300. 
<O</OAnd those numbers get you to a minimum size distance cruiser. But of course, not every boat that goes offshore is actually going distance cruising. Many are doing a series of short hops no longer than a coastal cruiser might grapple with.

And that, of course that brings us back to the guy with the Hunter 25 who went to Cuba. If I remember right it is roughly 90 miles from Key West to the Cuban coast. In decent weather that is roughly 24 to 30 hours of sailing. If you can pick your weather window, it's not all that hard to make that leap on any half-way decently maintained and constructed boat, including a 25 foot Hunter. <O</O

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

Yes, but if you do all that stuff to a Cal 25, then it's no longer a Cal 25! You can't then say that a Cal 25 survived a circumnavigation.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nicely said...


Jeff_H said:


> These discussions always strike me as the sailing equivalent of the medieval "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" As has been said above, the answer depends:
> · Your definition of "blue water"<O</O
> · How good a sailor you are,<O</O
> · How much risk you are willing to assume.<O</O
> ...


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## MazeRat7 (Aug 20, 2009)

As I thought, size doesn't matter (even if my SO disagrees)

It's all about what you do with what you got....IMHO.
To quote a song... "It ain't the meat, its the motion that gets me hot"....
Translation: It ain't the boat, its you ability to make it sail that makes it hot.

Never been offshore, hope to one day. Doesn't matter really to me today. What I know is there are a bunch of folks on this board doing today what I can only dream about. Maybe when I retire in 15 years, I'll get me that "blue water" boat.. whatever that is. But until then, I plan to learn, sail, ask for advice (something that is not natural for an engineer), and have a great time. 

Guess the Systems Engineer in me is showing, I could care less about one specific detail, but more about how the total system works (crew, boat, weather, etc).

Just my $0.02 discounted however you like....

Peace,
MZr7


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Capt.Fred said:


> However a blue water sailor could be pretty creative if he found a mangled derelict of a boat floating were he was swimming unintentionally at sea. After all that is why he is a blue water sailor.


If your theory is correct, where is the boat that caused the above sailor to find himself unintentionally swimming in the sea? 

Sorry, I don't subscribe to your belief that a rrrreaaaaaaaalllly good sailor can sail through any weather in any boat. There waw a boat called Moquini in Southern Africa that was new, state of the art (or so it was believed) and 6 *very* experienced sailors all died on her, disappeared without a trace

Jeff, you wrapped this up pretty well. If the OP doesn't get from your post what he wanted then he'll never get it. Thanks


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Stiche said:


> A Hunter 25? Wow. I can get pretty close to that though. How about a Cal 25? There have been a few (at least) that have been modified and successfully circumnavigated the globe. I've heard one story of a guy who sailed a Cal 25 from San Diego to Hawaii in 21 days.


How about a Cal 20? A Cal 20 took 2'nd place in Division D of the Singlehanded Trans-Pac (SF to Hawaii) last year; followed by a Dana 24, International Folkboat, and a Pearson Electra 22 (*). BUT, the winner of that division in a Custom Wylie 27 had to abandon when beating back to SF and got caught up in a clear air gale. It was a really bad storm and Skip Allan did the right thing by ditching; as there are conditions where almost ANY boat less than 75+ feet could be overcome by.

*All of the boats that sail in the Trans-Pac are heavily modified to allow for the stresses of racing in blue-water conditions.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Moquini's captain and crew most likely died when Moquini lost her keel and flipped.


Omatako said:


> If your theory is correct, where is the boat that caused the above sailor to find himself unintentionally swimming in the sea?
> 
> Sorry, I don't subscribe to your belief that a rrrreaaaaaaaalllly good sailor can sail through any weather in any boat. There waw a boat called Moquini in Southern Africa that was new, state of the art (or so it was believed) and 6 *very* experienced sailors all died on her, disappeared without a trace
> 
> Jeff, you wrapped this up pretty well. If the OP doesn't get from your post what he wanted then he'll never get it. Thanks


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

KeelHaulin said:


> How about a Cal 20? A Cal 20 took 2'nd place in Division D of the Singlehanded Trans-Pac (SF to Hawaii) last year; followed by a Dana 24, International Folkboat, and a Pearson Electra 22 (*). BUT, the winner of that division in a Custom Wylie 27 had to abandon when beating back to SF and got caught up in a clear air gale. It was a really bad storm and Skip Allan did the right thing by ditching; as there are conditions where almost ANY boat less than 75+ feet could be overcome by.
> 
> *All of the boats that sail in the Trans-Pac are heavily modified to allow for the stresses of racing in blue-water conditions.


What modifications were made to the Catalina 36 that did it? Looked pretty stock to me.

For me that's an example of getting lucky. The weather was decent for the race and the crew didn't have to find out if a C36 was up to the kind of relentless pounding that caused another crew to abandon their boat on the way home. Had the weather on the way to Hawaii been that bad, it might have been a different story.


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## Stiche (Oct 5, 2006)

mgiguere said:


> Yes, but if you do all that stuff to a Cal 25, then it's no longer a Cal 25! You can't then say that a Cal 25 survived a circumnavigation.


That sounds like a challenge!

Now...where'd I put that EPIRB...


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

midlifesailor said:


> What modifications were made to the Catalina 36 that did it? Looked pretty stock to me.
> 
> For me that's an example of getting lucky. The weather was decent for the race and the crew didn't have to find out if a C36 was up to the kind of relentless pounding that caused another crew to abandon their boat on the way home.


I don't know what modifications were made to any of these boats; but usually they go through and make upgrades to many of the systems like tanks, deck hardware, running rigging, batteries installed correctly/safely, thru-hulls with proper seacocks, etc. In some cases they strengthen bulkheads and put in heavier chainplates, heavier standing rigging and hull reinforcement. I don't see what difference it makes in terms of if the boat was classified as a Cal 20 or whatever; the hull form remains the same and all of the added equipment is assurance that the boat is up to the task of sailing across an ocean. I'm not sure what production boat you would buy that is blue-water ready aside from a Valiant or another cruiser that is specifically made to be an ocean cruiser.

I would not say that these boats got lucky in their race to HI; I'd say it was more of an un-lucky situation that Wildflower (the overall winner of the '08 Singlehanded TP) needed to be abandoned. The conditions that Skip Allan encountered were exceedingly rare for that time of year; and if it had happened during the race many racers would have aborted and sailed to safer waters like Los Angeles or west to the high pressure. Unfortunately Skip was trying to sail into it instead of running away; and he thought he would sail out of the heavy weather but instead was traveling deeper into the heavy wind. Fatigue played a role and after taking a continuous pounding for 3 days in 30ft seas and no end in sight you start to lose faith that you will make it out alive. When he abandoned the boat was still seaworthy; it was not the boat that let him down, it was his inner faith that he would make landfall in it (and I don't think that was an un-wise decision given the circumstances).



> Had the weather on the way to Hawaii been that bad, it might have been a different story.


Well, that's true of ANY race on ANY size of boat; as the sea is way more powerful than almost any boat on the ocean. Look at the Volvo Ocean Race; last year the 70ft boats were pummeled on their beat to China and many boats had to abort and go to Taiwan for repairs (including replacement of a hull section on Erricson 3). There are many examples of races that turned into disasters including loss of boats and life due to either wind conditions that were sudden or wind conditions that were not properly interpreted.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> Moquini's captain and crew most likely died when Moquini lost her keel and flipped.


I don't believe there is any remaining question about that.

The point I'm making is that it doesn't really matter how much sailing skill is on board - when the boat is bad, the boat is bad and people are going to die.


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

My understanding was that one of the deciding factors in Skip's decision to abandon the boat was that he was in a position to be rescued. If he had continued on the conditions for his rescuers may have deteriorated to the point where their safety would have been in jeopardy. I believe I read this here on sailnet.

michael


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

How big is a bluewater boat?








Bigger than a breadbox, but not by much.
Or this one:


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

Dear Thesnort, I like your style, I rest my case. Thank you,
Capt.Fred,

Addenda: I again stress that a blue water sailor would not take a non sea worthy boat to sea. However, here's a true fable; A little kid carefully removed the handle off a tiny plastic spoon. He then inserted the sharpened stub of the handle just slightly forward (toward the narrow end) of mid center into his dad's wine bottle cork. He then inserted lengthwise a single edge SS razor into the opposite side of the cork. He made sure the razor had that slight rake and the spoon's convex side pointed toward the narrow end of the cork. He dipped the whole sea worthy boat into his dad's bottom paint. Let it dry, christened it Cheap Red and set it off to sea from a beautiful white sandy beach on Gulf Coast of Alabama. On its journey with the current and storms it washed ashore a few time, but changing winds set it off again with no reported damage. Cheap Red was last noted by a megatanker flexing and taking on water off the South East side of the Cape Of good Hope. We shall hear further about Cheap Red. It just goes to show you that some boats are even stronger than their crew. but are aimless without a crew.
Toodle doo.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

doubleeboy said:


> My understanding was that one of the deciding factors in Skip's decision to abandon the boat was that he was in a position to be rescued. If he had continued on the conditions for his rescuers may have deteriorated to the point where their safety would have been in jeopardy. I believe I read this here on sailnet.


Yes, in fact the USCG would not come out to rescue due to weather conditions and they had their hands full with coastal pleasure boaters in distress. The cargo ship that picked him up was traveling south to Los Angeles and it was either go aboard the ship or wave as it went by; with the weather deteriorating further than the existing 30-40' seas. He had one chance to board the ship and he was lucky to have made it aboard from the way the story sounded. The safety of the crew who helped him board were in jeapordy; and they did an amazing job given that they are not trained for that type of rescue operation.

I wonder how many of those sub 4' boats have actually made it across the pond. How many were never heard from again? I mean if you can only take on 3 buckets of water, then *ploop* the boat sinks; what then??!! No liferaft? Do they at least carry a belly-boat and fins in case the "mother ship" goes down??!! :laugher


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

People, please free your minds from the box. Please try! A 4' tub might be a carbon fiber surplus gun turret from an Israeli tank turned upside down, fitted with some ballast, a carbon fibre stick and a SS rudder. there isn't a coral reef or a bullet for that matter that could bother him. Iv'e seen the likes of those little boat contraptions. sitting in a volcanic hot spring up the Rio Dulce, Guatemala. The Cap'n was stringing his guitar to a fair damsel singing his tune. Ain't no lie! Mr. KeelHaulin are you saying that even a lifeboat should have a lifeboat. Most full keel small sailboats are far stronger than any life boat or liferaft. They just need some modifications. I could go on forever, but it is probably pointless. Also as a newbie, maybe I should just learn, which I have already from sailnet and keep my experiences to myself. And folks don't let a day go by without doing some little thing toward your dream no matter how small or you will always be just a goingtobe.


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Amen, Capt. Fred.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Just read a lot from people who've done long cuises. The Seven Seas Sailing Association is a great resource for that info. What's "blue water" seems to be getting bigger with time. 30 ft used to be the leinght marina planners used now it's closer to 40ft. Ted Brewer writes great comparisons of boats in Good Old Boat which bring out Sail area/displacement ratios, righting moment and the things that matter in boat performance
The market for racing performance has driven production to fin keels. Older approaches like the CCA rating resulted in full keels that were slower but were easier in a seaway. Just look at the Flicka.. a full keeled boat at 20ft LWL that's probablly more sea kindly than a finn keel at half again the leinght. Folkboats like Jester are famous for long voyages. A cutaway forefoot like my old Hallberg Rassey appear to be a good comprimise of a keel cruiser
I think that an an avenue worth exploring for a serious blue water cruiser are the boats built in Tiawan and marketed here. They're heavly built to cruising designs,


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think most have missed part of the original question. "how big?" Assuming a sturdy hull, rig, and systems and a skipper that knows what he or she is doing how big is workable - certainly not the 4' boats pictured earlier. It depends what you want to take with you - air conditioning, washer/dryers, electric this and that require a certain size boat - and budget. My minimums are no conversion from sleeping to living like some put up with on a weekender, room to store everything in its place and keep it there, a good galley that works at sea not just tied to the dock, a reliable inboard diesel however small to enter harbor and generate a few amps for convenience, a chart table although this is less critical now than in the past, the ability to load supplies for the intended trip without ruining her sailing abilities which should be good and the ability to stand upright when putting my pants on. In my case 27'. 
Brian


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

I have followed this thread, albeit not too closely . I think most people are saying that a safe,sturdy, fast and proven hull is the way to go. 

I do know that you can get into some seas where you wish you were in a bigger boat, no matter what you are in. I have also met people who have cruised for years and never bumped into anything stronger than 20kn (or so they say) In the old days, there were many odd looking, home built things that went everywhere. Now, the salemen push the fantastic plastic things. Are they better?

However, it is great to see people wishing to cruise. It is an art and a lifestyle we have to keep alive for the next gen.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, here is a link to an awesome blue water story for those with an interest in such things! Squantum Yacht Club Home Page - www.squantumyc.org
Yes-it's a Thunderbird......all 26 feet.....
Enjoy!


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

If this is okay with you then I think you have a blue water boat.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

wind_magic
Exactly what is that? The water looks relatively flat between the boat and the land in the background as seen in the left centre of the picture. And the camera lens is a bit wet. Now this one...
Brian


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> wind_magic
> Exactly what is that? The water looks relatively flat between the boat and the land in the background as seen in the left centre of the picture. And the camera lens is a bit wet. Now this one...
> Brian


No Brian, that's nothing, you have to really be able to handle the big waves to call it a blue water boat, just look at those waves!


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Nicely put JeffH...I think you should make that post a sticky


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> And that, of course that brings us back to the guy with the Hunter 25 who went to Cuba. If I remember right it is roughly 90 miles from Key West to the Cuban coast. In decent weather that is roughly 24 to 30 hours of sailing. If you can pick your weather window, it's not all that hard to make that leap on any half-way decently maintained and constructed boat, including a 25 foot Hunter. <O</O
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jeff


People sail in the opposite direction from Cuba to Florida on a lot less!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

wind_magic
Doesn't there have to be someone on the boat?
Brian


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It can get pretty rough out there!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

This guy's chowing down before the next storm hits!


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> This guy's chowing down before the next storm hits!


Please note: a Blue Water Boat is big enough to carry all of your provisions and needs, while you are crossing one of the big ponds on this planet. 
The above will only be on a small lake.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

After two Force 10 storms (48 hours in the first and 36 hours in the second - both having winds 50-60, gusting higher and seas 28-30ft) and many lesser storms in Paloma, I'm comfortable with her 30 feet on deck size. A smaller boat would have been problematic and a much larger boat would have been too much to handle.


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