# Beneteau 311 vs Tartan 31



## DanBR (May 4, 2011)

I am looking at two boats and I wanted to hear everyones thoughts on the two boats. I know they are very different and i'm not comparing apples to apples but hear me out. 

I was set on the Tartan which was a late 80's Tartan 31. However I came across an early 2000's beneteau 311 and now I'm having a hard time choosing.

The Tartan is a much better boat but the beneteau is 15 years younger and after speaking with the owners I think I could get them at about the same price. The Beneteau owner is very motivated to sell otherwise they would not be in the same price range

They are both in very good condition for their years.

Is the Tartan really that much better that I can over look the 15 years? 

I am looking to mostly sail the east coast of Florida and the Bahamas a couple times a year. I might do some local club races from time to time also but nothing serious.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

I am in the same boat is you buying older or buying newer. I based on this statement you made



> I am looking to mostly sail the east coast of Florida and the Bahamas a couple times a year. I might do some local club races from time to time also but nothing serious.


I guess you will be happier with the French made boat. It is a buyer market, get what you want and leave the emotion at home. If not, just walk.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

On a 30 year old boat you have to make a lot of questions, for example: When was the rigging changed? (some say that should be changed every 10 years, some say more, but certainly a 30 year's old rigging is not fit anymore). The mast is the original? If so you have to look very carefully. Aluminum tend to turn brittle with time and to corrode on the links. The boat engine?....the freezer engine?...the pumps?, all rubber parts... last time the boat had an epoxy coat barrier...has the boat osmosis?, or absorbed water on the hull?

An old boat can be as new but that means that only the hull and the interior are the same. Almost all systems and other parts should have been replaced. Many that have old boats (or new for that matter) sail only occasionally and use the boat very little and just don't do an adequate maintenance other than visual.

Bottom point you need to know how much money you are going to need to put both boats to specs and probably you are going to need a lot more to do that in a 30 year old boat than in a 10 year old boat (that's why old boats cost less) but each case is a case 

Regards

Paulo


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

It may come down to the equipment that they come with and the condition of the equipment. if they are of equal price and you have to buy stuff for one then it is really a more expensive boat. thats to say if you need all that stuff. why is the Tartan a better boat? both of them can and have been used for your missions. is the older boat really in as good a shape as the newer one? for me it would be the Bene, it is newer better looking and a better layed out cockpit. in ten years it will be a 20 year old boat the Tartan will be 35 going on 40 though a good looking boat it will look very old by then


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

The master has spoken. 

I think I want an Elan 350


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

One thing that has not been mentioned is depreciation. I'm no expert, so I'm not saying I have the answers. But I have questions.

What will either boat be worth in 10 years with no major upgrades?

What will either boat be worth with a new engine/rigging?

How long do you plan on keeping the boat? I know that's a hard question to answer but I think it should be taken into consideration.

'72 My C&C 30 may, or may not have depreciated over the 11+ years I have owned her. If it did, it's no more than 10%. I could unload it at a 20% depreciation in a heart beat. The funny thing is that it's still worth 50% of the sticker price


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Go for the boat which better describes the kind of sailing you do... Bene..more creature comforts, wider salon and cockpit....Tartan..better made..better sailing over all...Fractionalk spreadrrs vs non.

The elctronics on the Bene are newer...maybe unless the Tartan has been constantly maintained and upgraded in which case many of the Tartan systems could actually be newer than the Bene.

I know this will get me in trouble

So heres the deleama...do I want the newer girl with the fat ass wide body for her size and stubby nose who looks like everybody else...or do I want the classy girl...who is a little older with more experience, better looker, takes care of herself and is more of an individual.

Dave


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## DanBR (May 4, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> Go for the boat which better describes the kind of sailing you do... Bene..more creature comforts, wider salon and cockpit....Tartan..better made..better sailing over all...Fractionalk spreadrrs vs non.
> 
> The elctronics on the Bene are newer...maybe unless the Tartan has been constantly maintained and upgraded in which case many of the Tartan systems could actually be newer than the Bene.
> 
> ...


Dave,

Haha I like the analogy. Forgive me for being ignorant but what is the difference between fractional spreaders and non? Which boat has which?


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## DanBR (May 4, 2011)

PCP said:


> On a 30 year old boat you have to make a lot of questions, for example: When was the rigging changed? (some say that should be changed every 10 years, some say more, but certainly a 30 year's old rigging is not fit anymore). The mast is the original? If so you have to look very carefully. Aluminum tend to turn brittle with time and to corrode on the links. The boat engine?....the freezer engine?...the pumps?, all rubber parts... last time the boat had an epoxy coat barrier...has the boat osmosis?, or absorbed water on the hull?
> 
> An old boat can be as new but that means that only the hull and the interior are the same. Almost all systems and other parts should have been replaced. Many that have old boats (or new for that matter) sail only occasionally and use the boat very little and just don't do an adequate maintenance other than visual.
> 
> ...


Paulo,

I think I am going to go with the newer boat, but if that offer falls through here are the results on a lot of the questions you addressed
.
The Tartan 31 is in very good condition as far as the hull, interior, cosmetically, and I've been told there have never been any blisters. The negative part is that it has original sails and mast. The standing rigging was replaced 12 years ago and the running rigging is very stiff. The bottom was painted 18 months ago.

I know I will have to replace the sails. What will that cost?

Do I have to replace the mast? How much is that?

Do I have to replace the standing rigging that was replaced 12 years ago. If so, How much is that?

How much is it to replace the running rigging?

How much is the bottom painting?


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Surveyor, surveyor, surveyor.....after you decide which boat pulls at you.

You certainly should not need a new mast...if you do run away!

Standing rigging, they are about the same age on both based on your statements. Really depends on use and care more than age. Many boats still have the same standing rigging 20 or more years later, but it gets costly when it has to be replaced.

20 plus year old sails will need to be replaced if you want performance. The 10 year old sails might be in the same condition as the 20 plus year old sails dependent on use. Some people replace sails every two years because they race and work them hard. Some wait 10 years, and some obviously never replace them based on the Tartan you are looking at. Sails will cost you from under $5,000 to over $15,000 dependent on what you choose.

You will find that boats are a very nice hole to pour your money into. The most important thing is that you find a hole(boat) you really like before you start pouring, because you are most likely not going to get much of it back when and if you sell.

Whatever you do: HAVE IT SURVEYED!!!!!!


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

tomandchris said:


> Surveyor, surveyor, surveyor.....after you decide which boat pulls at you.
> 
> You certainly should not need a new mast...if you do run away!
> 
> ...


Unless it is obvious to you that the tartan mast shows signs of corrosion, or the standing rigging has problems in any of the boats, have them surveyed.

Here you have a simple proceeding to find yourself if the boat has problems on the mast or on the running rigging. If in doubt look for a surveyor:

BoatUS.com - Seaworthy Magazine

Sailboat Rig Problems - J. Stormer

And how about the engine? The tartan has still the old one?

Regards

Paulo


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

On the Tartan expect to 100% replace the entire rig, including spars.

Plus engine overhaul 


Price those 2 costs


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

WDSchock said:


> On the Tartan expect to 100% replace the entire rig, including spars.
> 
> Plus engine overhaul
> 
> Price those 2 costs


Replace the spars? May I ask why?


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Decide which boat makes your heart happy and then make your decision. I would not assume anything until you look closely at the boat, make your decision, and then offer and survey. You can then re-negotiate based on the survey if it brings up anything critical.

A 20 something boat with original sails has probably not been sailed hard so let a surveyor ( a good one!) tell you what you are looking at. None of us has seen the boat and anything said is an assumption. You don't make purchase decisions on assumptions! Just make certain that you have money in the kitty to fix what your surveyor tells you plus a back up for the unexpected.

Good Luck!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I doubt the mast and boom would need replacing unless damaged. Especially if the boat was not raced hard. The rigging at 12 years is a maybe, depending on condition.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

The reason behind thinking the spars will need to be replaced:

After 30 years, every single connection on the rig is going to be suspect. The spars maybe ALU but the fittings will be SS. The mast head, mast step, and every single rivet/screw will all be sources of galvanic action. 

I am speculating the last time the rig was throughly checked was 12 years ago when the shrouds were replaced.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

We went through a similar decision making process deciding between a 1988 Sabre and a 2001 Beneteau. We ended up buying the Beneteau. Sometimes we wonder if we made the right decision, but the jury is still out. Here are some of the negatives we've discovered about the Beneteau:

A grid is used instead of conventional construction and you can't inspect the hull beneath the grid. Also water tends to collect under the grid and the limber holes are not well placed to allow the water to drain to the sump with bilge pump
 In 5 foot plus seas the bow tends to slam down off of waves making a huge noise with very large shock
 One cannot safely walk through salon while underway since there are no handholds along the centerline (or close to it)
 No lee cloths
 Terrible access to wiring for adding things and/or replacing existing (corroded) wires
 Very large cockpit with insufficient handholds
The positives are:

Much newer boat with good spars and standing rigging
Much more space for entertaining
Nice swim platform (sugar scoop)
Basically, the Beneteau is not optimized for making offshore passages, but is very nice for entertaining at the dock (or coastal sailing). The opposite would be true of Sabre. Therefore, it all comes down to how you plan to use the boat. Since we are now getting older and plan to spend more time at marinas, we do not necessarily regret our decision.
Pete


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

I personally would go with the Beneteau since its a decade and a half newer and I just love the way they look both inside and out. It has that bling, bling kind of style when you pull up to a dock, if you know what I mean


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## jbrendel (May 30, 2011)

*311 owner*

I may be bias and I have never sailed a Tartan. However, I just purchased an 01 Beneteau 311 with lazy jack system and solid Keel. The thing is fast and stable. It virtually sails itself, with just the right amount of windward helm. I don't know who is telling you that the Tartan is a better boat. What is the PHRF on the Tartan? The Beneteau is 141 which makes it very competitive for its class. I really like the full toe rail and the aft rail seats on the 311. I would only buy a boat with a Yanmar diesel I don't trust the other brands. I added another battery under the sink to handle the nav equipment and refrigerator compressor more effectively. I would go with the Beneteau.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

It depends on what you plan on doing with the boat. If you're a weekend sailor with an entertainment budget, buy the Benneteau. 

Beneteaus are very pretty, Tartans are a much better built boat. If it were me, I'd examine the spreader mast connection on the Tartan then note the engine hours. If less than 5000 hours and the spreader mast connections show no corrosion, and all other things were even, I'd make an offer on the Tartan less what new 1 x19 wire and staylocks would cost to replace the standing rigging.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I thnk the OP should just keep looking for a boat! All the newer verse older, high production vers lower production (there're both production boats) etc etc is just fine and good things to think of.

But it in the end if you are doing all this it means neither boat talks to your heart. Listen to your heart some!


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

DanBR said:


> Paulo,
> 
> I think I am going to go with the newer boat, but if that offer falls through here are the results on a lot of the questions you addressed
> .
> ...


If you are newish to sailing and are asking all these questions I'm gonna start by asking you one; Why are you sure the sails need replacing? The surveyor will look at them and give you some advice at the survey (or you can pull them out and go over them yourself. If they are "OK" but should be replaced soon, just sail the boat with them for a month or two while you get used to your new boat. I'd rather FUBAR an old sail while getting to know my boat than a brand spanking new one. You may even find that the old sails fit your needs for a year or two, or three...

The price of sails varies. You can probably replace them for less than $4000 if you shop around or get creative, maybe as low as $3000. There are reasonable ways to save money if you are not going to race or go offshore.

Only a survey can tell you for sure if you need to replace the mast. The odds of that being the case are very low. If you where to walk the boat yards and look for 30 year old Tartans with new masts, you would be hard pressed to find one and if you did it I"m willing to bet it was because of a catastrophic accident rather than wear and tear.

Your surveyor will tell you all about the rigging and what, if anything needs to be replaced. The standing rigging on my C&C 30 passed the survey at 30 yrs old. I replaced it anyway. Find a local rigger that people at your yard trust. Some of these guys race/sail with their customers so they build relationships. That's the kind of guy you want working on your boat.

If running rigging passes the survey but it's "about time" for an upgrade, this is something you don't need to do all at once. Halyards are easier to do if the mast is down, but, most anything can be done as needed.

Advice on bottom paint would be to buy the best you can find. Wait for a sale if you can. The more you spend, the less work you have to do at haul out.

I'm ass u ming you are not going off shore and you don't mind doing some of the work yourself. If the boat is to be "yard maintained" then all bets are off as to pricing. If you are planning on sailing across oceans then throw out all of the above advice and plan on upgrading everything.


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## fscottnich (Aug 18, 2007)

I'm unfamiliar with the Tartan, but I bought a new French-built 1999 Bene 311 in '99. It had the Yanmar 2GM20, a 2 cylinder which my son and I renamed Yammermar. The boat sailed beautifully, looked great, was well maintained, handled lots of rough seas on Chesapeake Bay, including one brief bout with 50+knots, but motored horribly. I had to have the engine overhauled twice, once for blown rings, the second for a broken crankshaft. Shortly after buying it (less than a year later), I wished I had bought a bigger boat. Buy the biggest damn boat you can possibly afford. In 2008, I bought a new 393. Watch us on youtube at Nicholsquarters.


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