# AMF Paceship Chance 32/28



## DistortedAxis (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm currently looking at purchasing an 1974 AMF Paceship Chance 32/28
Designed by Britton Chance

L.O.A. 32 ¾
L.W.L. 27'9''
Beam 10.0'
Displacment 12000lbs +/-
Headroom 6'3"
IOR 24.5 - 25.5
Full Keel
Draft 5'10'' (6-feet)

http://www.paceship.org/downloads/brochure-3228.pdf

I was hoping someone here could tell me about the build quality and longevity
of these boats. I really like the overall design and rigging layout of this boat. The top of the boat is low profile and easy to maneuver around because of it.

The current owner took the time to refit all the old equipment with new (to the boat) Garhauer equipment and Lewmar winches. The tracks are recessed all into the deck so there is no tripping. Included is a Sail inventory which is less than 2 years old. Tons of racing sails. Though I believe the sails to be pushed hard, they appear to be in good condition.

The interior is dated and needs refinishing. The electronics are the same - all functioning but dated. The current owner has had this boat for 12 years. He has raced it at his local club and won many races. The Atomic 4 appears in decent condition for a boat of its age. 70 hours showing on the meter. No idea if that's accurate.

I guess what impressed me the most was the ability sail upwind. I have never been on a boat that could do it so well.

My intentions are to use this as a family weekend sailer in Lake Michigan.

Does anyone have any experience with these boats or AMF Paceship company in general?


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## DistortedAxis (Jul 15, 2007)

No one?! 

C'mon - does anyone have any information for me? Im getting a survey on her next week.


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm sure someone would have chimed in by now if they had any direct experience.

Generally speaking, I'd have the surveyor take a good hard look at the standing rigging, given the boat's apparently intense racing history.


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## DistortedAxis (Jul 15, 2007)

*AMF Yes OR No? Need Some Help.*

Well, I had a survey done and everything seems sound. - very minor issues were found with the boat. Biggest was a broken motor mount. The guy said the rigging and hull were in great condition. Cored deck was good with no rot. Estimated value is at $19K.

I have talked the seller down to $10500. Any suggestions?

I'm really curious about the longevity of the AMF boats. Not a lot of info about them.

I'm looking for a 30ft boat around the $15-20K range Something for weekend cruising in lake Michigan in the Chicago area.


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## MacGyverRI (Nov 14, 2007)

I've got a 1977 Paceship PY26 and I think it will last another 30+ yrs. the way it's built. I also have a lot of experience working w/ fiberglass and this boat is built like a tank.

Chain plates are as solid as a rock, the floor/decks aren't soft. The weathered Gel Coat took a lot of rubbing but came back nice. The original stainless is in great shape after a good cleaning. Mast and rigging (1 strand on main halyard is frayed) are all good also. 

paceship.org would be a good ref. site also

p.s.
I have the in between boat, built in 1977 when it went from Paceship to AMF Paceship, this is info. from the website owner (Jay Moran) at paceship.org. I believe you have the Canadian built boat.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

DistortedAxis said:


> Well, I had a survey done and everything seems sound. - very minor issues were found with the boat. Biggest was a broken motor mount. The guy said the rigging and hull were in great condition. Cored deck was good with no rot. Estimated value is at $19K.
> 
> I have talked the seller down to $10500. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


To my eye, not the prettiest girl at the dance, but... she surveyed well, you have negotiated a favourable price to you, she's been around 34 years so I doubt she'll turn to dust anytime soon.

You are pleased with many aspects of this boat - go for it.


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

_"I'm currently looking at purchasing an 1974 AMF Paceship Chance 32/28
Designed by Britton Chance"

"I'm really curious about the longevity of the AMF boats. Not a lot of info about them."

_The boat would have been built by Paceship Yachts of Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia and not AMF. Paceship stopped building boats around 1976.


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

I almost bought the smaller Chance 29 version. It was very heavily built, and in great shape, for it's age. I wanted a diesel, and wheel steering, so I opted to look around. I do feel that yopu are getting alot of boat for the money. I know a 32/28 owner, who races religiously, and loves the boat. It is heavy, and certainly not fast in light winds - He told me that the Tanzer 22s will pass him in light winds, but as the wind picks up, they head for the docks , and he is out having a ball! I am from the Maritimes, and Paceships hold their value well here, as people know they were built very solid.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

As to longetivity, I concur with FASTER's comments, this is an experienced boat, another 30 years need be no harder on it then the last 30 years, if you give it suitable care.


If I were looking for a PHRF racer, I'd happily buy it, this boat sounds well-equipped and looks to have some character. Probably pretty squirrly under spinnaker, but stiff upwind is not a bad trade-off.

As you say you want a cruising boat, I suggest thinking twice about this particular boat. I always recommend to buy a boat that has been used the way you intend to use it: whether blue-water, coastal cruising, racing or daysailing...By following this advice you are likely to end up with the gear you want, not with a mess of stuff that's of little value to you. The 10 racing sails on a racer might not be worth to you what the one dacron crosscut 130% roller fuling jib you want to have, would be worth. If your boat doesn't have such a sail, you'd need to buy it and the gear, then give away 9 of the 10 racing sails for a song...

Just a thought, you might look at a few cruise-equipped Catalina 30s in the low-mid teens and figure out their value to you versus this particular choice, then buy what will work best for your use.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I had two (smaller) boats built by Paceship, and grew up knowing the boats. They are strong, seaworthy boats that sail nicely. I think you will be very happy with the boat. She is certainly more than capable of dealing with anything that you'll encounter on the Great Lakes.

The pre-AMF ones are better quality than the AMF units. I believe the boat was originally sold as the Galaxy 32, then adopted and built by Paceship. A bit hazy on this but the people on the Paceship site will be able to help.

Paceship's original build quality was well above the current production-yacht standards - equivalent to that of Bristol, CS, and others.


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## DistortedAxis (Jul 15, 2007)

MacGyverRI said:


> I've got a 1977 Paceship PY26 and I think it will last another 30+ yrs. the way it's built. I also have a lot of experience working w/ fiberglass and this boat is built like a tank.
> Chain plates are as solid as a rock, the floor/decks aren't soft. The weathered Gel Coat took a lot of rubbing but came back nice. The original stainless is in great shape after a good cleaning. Mast and rigging (1 strand on main halyard is frayed) are all good also.
> paceship.org would be a good ref. site also
> p.s.
> I have the in between boat, built in 1977 when it went from Paceship to AMF Paceship, this is info. from the website owner (Jay Moran) at paceship.org. I believe you have the Canadian built boat.


MacGyver,

Thanks for the input on the PY26. From what I have read, that is the most common of boats in the Paceship community. Hardly any complaints from their owners. I was only hoping that the build quality would carry over to the Chance 32-28.



Faster said:


> To my eye, not the prettiest girl at the dance, but... she surveyed well, you have negotiated a favourable price to you, she's been around 34 years so I doubt she'll turn to dust anytime soon.
> You are pleased with many aspects of this boat - go for it.


Faster,

To each their own. The simple flush deck design is great in my eyes. I've not had extensive sailing experience, but I feel the less cluttered the top deck is, the easier it will be for me to utilize the boat. Does dust float? Lol - Kidding&#8230;



Johnrb said:


> _"I'm currently looking at purchasing an 1974 AMF Paceship Chance 32/28
> Designed by Britton Chance"
> "I'm really curious about the longevity of the AMF boats. Not a lot of info about them."
> _The boat would have been built by Paceship Yachts of Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia and not AMF. Paceship stopped building boats around 1976.


John,

I wasn't aware of this - looks like I didn't do my homework as well as I had thought. But I see you are correct as this would not be an "AMF" but rather, just referred to as a "Paceship Chance 32-28." Thanks for the info. I was doing some more research. It seems the Britton Chance designed this bout to be a competitive IOR boat / cruiser. The design intention was to have on 28ft of the 32ft boat in the water. And in order to do the, the keel is closer to the front of the boat (or at least more so than most designs ive looking into - someone correct me if Im way out of line here?) and swept back. This to me would allow the boat to lay over nicely and pick up speed in a good blow while maintaining great stability from a design standpoint.



Northeaster said:


> I almost bought the smaller Chance 29 version. It was very heavily built, and in great shape, for it's age. I wanted a diesel, and wheel steering, so I opted to look around. I do feel that yopu are getting alot of boat for the money. I know a 32/28 owner, who races religiously, and loves the boat. It is heavy, and certainly not fast in light winds - He told me that the Tanzer 22s will pass him in light winds, but as the wind picks up, they head for the docks , and he is out having a ball! I am from the Maritimes, and Paceships hold their value well here, as people know they were built very solid.


Northeaster,

For the longest time I wanted wheel steering, and thought I wanted a Diesel engine. However I have come to the conclusion that on a 32 ft boat, I honestly don't need the wheel steering. Plus it takes up so much room on a boat. And for my price range (Read: under $15K) I have determined that any diesel I find will need extensive work to make it right - or at least it seems this way with what I have been looking at over the past 2 years. I agree, the boat is sluggish in light winds. I found this out on the sea trial. Hey the boat will be relocated to Chicago and that's where wind will always blow right? 



sailingfool said:


> As to longetivity, I concur with FASTER's comments, this is an experienced boat, another 30 years need be no harder on it then the last 30 years, if you give it suitable care.
> 
> If I were looking for a PHRF racer, I'd happily buy it, this boat sounds well-equipped and looks to have some character. Probably pretty squirrely under spinnaker, but stiff upwind is not a bad trade-off.
> As you say you want a cruising boat, I suggest thinking twice about this particular boat. I always recommend to buy a boat that has been used the way you intend to use it: whether blue-water, coastal cruising, racing or daysailing...By following this advice you are likely to end up with the gear you want, not with a mess of stuff that's of little value to you. The 10 racing sails on a racer might not be worth to you what the one dacron crosscut 130% roller fuling jib you want to have, would be worth. If your boat doesn't have such a sail, you'd need to buy it and the gear, then give away 9 of the 10 racing sails for a song...
> Just a thought, you might look at a few cruise-equipped Catalina 30s in the low-mid teens and figure out their value to you versus this particular choice, then buy what will work best for your use.


Sailingfool,

For The Record: My intentions with this boat are not to race her. Not to say that I won't ever as I could get the bug to do so, but the whole point of the sailboat purchase is for weekend cruising in the great lakes and short-handed sailing. No so much to the extremes of living aboard either. Just comfortable enough for a couple to get away.

I am curious however as to why you think this boat would be "squirrelly" as you say, under spinnaker? Forgive my ignorance if there is something that screams that -- that obviously from the boat. just curious? 
To be honest, as far as thinking twice - I have over and over again. I passed on this boat a few months ago because at first I had thought it wasn't what I wanted. I really wanted a Catalina 34 or an Endeavour 32 - but in reality all the Catalina's I have looked at have been quite ragged this year. I have spent enough on surveys in the past two years to put a down payment on a good boat! Everything else, I felt was not worthy of purchase. Not to mention, at the time, the market was still flooded with all the damaged boats from the hurricanes the years prior. The endeavors all seem way out of my price range.

I heed your advice on buying a boat that was used for what you intend to use it for. That is excellent advice to any boat buyer. Yes, this boat was raced. And yes, the sails included with the boat are mostly for racing and not cruising, but the so called delivery sails that are also included are in very good condition according to survey and are more than ideal for cruising. The roller furling is something I will more than likely have to add on to this boat.

Do you think I could re-sell the racing sails? What is the used market like for Dacron Racing sails?

Thanks for the input.



Sailormann said:


> I had two (smaller) boats built by Paceship, and grew up knowing the boats. They are strong, seaworthy boats that sail nicely. I think you will be very happy with the boat. She is certainly more than capable of dealing with anything that you'll encounter on the Great Lakes.
> The pre-AMF ones are better quality than the AMF units. I believe the boat was originally sold as the Galaxy 32, then adopted and built by Paceship. A bit hazy on this but the people on the Paceship site will be able to help.
> Paceship's original build quality was well above the current production-yacht standards - equivalent to that of Bristol, CS, and others.


Sailormann,

Thanks for the info as well! It's appreciated.


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

DistortedAxis:

My girlfriend and I visited New Brunswick and Nova Scotia in late summer 1976. We traveled along the south shore visiting Chester, Lunenburg, Mahone Bay, etc. We decided to visit the Paceship factory in Mahone Bay but when we drove up to the address - no boats in sight but lots of pipes. We spoke with a worker who stated the company had stopped building boats and concentrated on building pipes (GRP I assume) for the Cape Breton heavy water projects. Nothing like the smell of government pork (as in pork barrel).


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I am reaonably familiar with the Brit Chance designed AMF Chance 32. These are very early IOR designs. Chance had an idea that extremely low stability would result in a good rating relative to sailing speed and that low stability would be achieved with a narrow beam and pinched ends. The result was a boat that was competitive under the first IOR rule but which was not a very good all around sailor, being tender making heavy air performance somewhat limited, and being heavy and having a lot of wetted surface hurting light air performance. It also inherently was not much of a cruising boat, with a cramped interior and limited load carrying capacity. 

Rig wise this was the height of the huge jib/small mainsail sail plan, which is the opposite of ideal for a cruising boat or for shorthanding. These rigs depended on very large sail inventories and frequent sail changes and were generally less forgiving than more modern proportioned rigs.

I have quite a lot of experience with Paceships, starting with a 1964 Eastwind and going from there. The earliest Paceships were pure junk. By the late 1960's and early 1970's they really improved a lot, but by the AMF buy-in, the quality had begun top slip again, and basic workmanship was on the shoddy side, with poorly slurried in cabin soles and liners, crude electrical installations, and less than wonderfully thought through details. 

I also want to correct one mistatement above, There is no relationship between the Brit Chance designed AMF Chance 32 and the Bill Tripp designed Galaxy 32. The Galaxy 32 was one of the first fiberglass cruising boats put into production. It was an extremely advanced design for its day in almost all ways and remains one of my favorite CCA era boats, if not one of my favorite boats of this size. It is an extremely different design than the AMF Chance 32. 

Chance designed a series of similar boats for other builders including the Plastrend Chance 32, Chesapeake Custom 32 (not to be mistaken for the Rhodes designed Chesapeake 32) and Allied Chance 30/30. In my experience the Allied was by far the best of the series in terms of build quality and design and was the most suitable as a cruising boat. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Checked out the Paceship 32. The boat was the Bill Tripp Galaxy 32. It was produced by Paceship from 1968 to 1974. Chance 28/32 is a different boat. Produced by Paceship from 1972 to 1974, and subsequently by AMF.


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*!963 Galaxy 32 Bll Tripp design.*

Cur r en tly on ebay, no bids 17 hours to go.


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## Paceshipguy (Aug 10, 2009)

Just thought I would clear up a Sailormann's comment: "The pre-AMF ones are better quality than the AMF units." Actually, there is little difference between the the "pre-AMF" boats and in fact only two boats were aquired and marketed by AMF; the PY23 and PY26 - not the 32/28 BTW.

Indeed, all the fiberglass continued to be made in Nova Scotia throughout AMF's production runs and the primary AMF changes on the 26 was a slotted aluminum toerail (great for hanging sheaves and bumpers etc) which replaced the near useless teak rail and an L-shapped galley (which was a lot easier to cook over). So net-net, AMF did nothing but improve these already successful models.

BTW, That is not to say that if AMF had more than time (before they closed shop on Paceship and a gaggle of other fine boats in their stable at the time) they would not have tried to "value engineer" these Paceship boats .

There are little things I might grouse about on the various boats but having been on a lot of Paceships, the hallmark of well designed, solidly built sailing craft lives on in all of those I have seen. By and large one could do far worse than Paceship.

Jay
TPW


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

It's funny, but just this weekend a Paceship Chance 32 motored past me. I had not seen one up close in years. I was stunned by what an ugly duckling they really are. They are strangely proportioned from every angle, narrow and tall, with a strange humped deck design and almost no side decks, plumb ended, with the tiny mainsail- big genoa rig proportions of that era. I later was out kayaking and had to go by for a closer look. All I can say is "What was Brit Chance thinking?' 

I was really surprised that earlier in the post there was mention that Paceship had built the Tripp designed Galaxy 32 from 1972 to 1974. I had never heard of that before. The original Galaxy's went out of production at some point in the mid- 1960s so I have to wonder how the molds ended up in Canada in the 1970's. 

That is really wild. Live and learn....

Jeff


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## Paceshipguy (Aug 10, 2009)

*Chance 32/28 and the Galaxy/P32*

Jeff_H - Ugly? "What was Brit Chance thinking?' Dunno, I think it was a boat for a purpose and toward that end and with a typical PHRF around 160 it's still reasonably competitive in her size range. I would agree with an earlier post I noticed that you made that it is not a boat for everyone and it takes some experience to handle her for sure.

On the Galaxy, actually Paceship bought the design (and molds etc) from American Boatbulders Company in RI around 1961 or so (along with it came GW McVay and his Falcon when that firm closed). It became the "P32". We can confirm only that the last boat we know of is a 1973 version. Our archeology indicates a move in the mid to late 60's away from "traditionally designed" boats and to those that hinted at the more modern powerful hulls that characterized the racers of the day (IOR, Americas Cup etc) as well as family cruisers. So, the Galaxy/P32 died. We think about 62 were made but we only know where about nine of them are right now. Hopefully this helps set the record straight.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I did some online homework on the Galaxy 32 last evening and I was surprised to learn that sure enough the Galaxy had far more lives than I ever would have guessed. I had once heard that at one point Pearson or Clint Pearson had considered buying the molds when American Boatbuilders closed. I had no idea about Paceship before yesterday. 

There is a PHRF handicapper's report on the changes that Paceship made to modernize the keel and skeg, (Although the original bulb keel was way ahead of its time, its just that no one knew that yet.) It also mentioned that Metalmast Marine somehow ended up with the molds and once again modernized the keel and rudder. I vaguely remember seeing one of those for sale but did not recognize it as a Galaxy at the time but in hindsight that was exactly what I had been looking at. The PHRF Measurer went on to mention a Galaxy that had its counter shortened so that it was only a 29 footer when the mod's were complete. That would have been a cool boat to own. 

In stock form these were fast and reasonably easily handled boats across as wide windspeed range as any boat that size of that era. The Paceship improvements would seemingly only improve the boat further. With base ratings around 168-180 they were extraodinarily fast for an early 1960's 32 footer (at least as compared to ratings on similar era or even slightly later designs such as the Alberg [email protected] 228 ,Bristol 32 @228, Peason Vanguard @ 222, or Luders 33 @198 for example) . 

In any event, the Galaxy's still have a very warm spot in my heart. They really were good all around boats, especially for that era. 

With regards to the Chance design, boats like these were very cranky to sail except in perfect conditions. When I rhetorically asked, "What was Brit Chance thinking?" I was thinking that Chance came through S&S at a time when S&S still preached moderation. There is nothing moderate about the Chance 32/28 and that lack of moderation would make this a very hard boat to race under any rule, let alone PHRF. But more to the point, IOR had a reputation for producing boats that were disposable, one-trick ponies, whose usefulness would end with each rule rewrite. While you can argue that is a little extreme, a boat like the 32/20 would seemingly be the poster child for that arguement. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

very interesting discussion. While I have no specific experience with the 32/28 I have owned McVay Minuette, Paceship P23 and my brother a Paceship PY26. Have also been on board a friend's Eastwind (or was it Westwind - they look very similar) and have seen numerous Bluejackets, PY23, P29 Northwind, etc... all over Nova Scotia.

The Minuette we sailed from 1979 until 1990. It was a 19 foot full keel (or as Jeff would say long fin keel) daysailor designed by George McVay based on a smaller version of the popular Bluenose 23 foot sloop designed by William Roue. The Minuette was solidly built and fun to sail but slow. Overall I would say the build quality was high.

In 1999 after a number of years away we purchased a 25 year old 1974 C&C designed Paceship P23. Once again the hull and rig seemed very solidly built as seems to be a quality on all the Nova Scotia built boats from this period. The electrical was as Jeff had hinted very primitive. The fuse panel such as it is was in the cockpit locker and by the middle of our first year of ownership all circuits had stopped functioning due to corrosion on the fuse holders .... easily fixed but annoying. This also was a fun boat and I would eagerly recommend to anyone as a good starter boat. Although now 35 years old ...

My brother purchased a PY26 of similar vintage approx 2002. The boat seemed solidly built again and the fit and finish were very good for boats of that era from my limited knowledge. This may have been Paceship's finest boat.

Other notable Paceships were the Blue Jacket which was an outstanding day sailor and a great adult learn to sail boat.

My perceptions of Paceships built in Nova Scotia is that the hulls and rigs tended to be sturdily built like many other boats designed and built in the late 60s and early seventies. The 32/28 seems a very different breed of boat than most built by Paceship at the time and much larger. In some ways its high freeboard reminds me of the C&C Mega 30 - a bit odd but the interior looks fine for a 1974 boat. It would be very interesting to sail on one of these boats - but I would hate to pay for the headsails with its large foretriangle!

I will be following this thread with interest.

Mike


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I owned the Grampian Marine Classic 22, which was one of a number of versions of the C&C 22, which included the slightly stretched Bluejacket 23. It was a wonderful boat. One of the nicest daysailors of that era. Of course to me, as a kid, she was a very luxurious overnighter. 

A friend of mine keeps a PY 26 at my dock. I think these are basically very nice designs. Build quality is a mixed bag although some of the problems could be a combination of maintenance issues rather than simply design/build issues. 

Jeff


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