# So I am not sure I am cut out to be a sailor...



## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Hi all,

Just thought I would share my 'process' so far and just see if there is anything I am missing.

I was never a sailor at any point but had been out on a few boats as rail meat. I was getting quite bored of working and was trying to think of something to do that would keep me and my wife busy while not having to be pinned down at the corporate grind. We have amassed a reasonable enough amount of money such that I don't think going to work just because you can't think of anything better to do is a great way to live.

At some point I stumbled across the Bumfuzzles and their round the world travels and was inspired by the idea. At that point I started to think about how it could work out for my wife and I and started researching. I looked into the pros and cons of cruising life, bought books (even for the wife), worked on the idea, dreamed about boats and not being at work etc etc.

The wife liked the idea as it was pitched - something that would keep us busy, would have us seeing exotic locales etc etc. It would give me freedom from the monotony of the corporate grind as well as getting away from the crowds. It would give her a built in social network at each new harbor. The idea seemed perfect.

So we went and took a competent crew course down in Australia at the Whitsunday Islands. I figured it would be a good place to learn as well as easy and beautiful - highlighting all the good stuff. It was a full on week of learning and we were successful enough. Catch is, we didn't really get any kind of a relaxing trip with all the objectives.

That was fine though - it enabled us to rent again; this time freeing us up to take out a 38 foot catamaran. I all along thought cats would be the way to go and that first course kind of confirmed us for both of us.

Anyway, trip two sees the wife and I alone taking out a 38 foot catamaran. We hired a half day sail guide to refresh us and then it was up to us.

Well, thats where things started to get a bit wonky. In the first two minutes, my wife loses her hat overboard never to be seen again (on our first raising of the main). I find for the whole trip that sleeping at night is very difficult as I worry about anchors dragging, water leaking or funny noises. The windlass causes us all kinds of problems; one day jamming, one day jamming so badly I have to go in and disassemble part of it. The lazy jacks break. The tools for fixing things were rusty and barely able to help. We decide to move anchor and in the process forget about the tender and shred the painter, kill and engine for a bit and then manage to retrieve the dingy. We motor sail through an inter island channel that proves hair raising. We get our first mooring boy of the trip and then are inundated with backpacker boats that night and the following morning. We try to anchor in sand for a break pre returning to base and it won't hold so end up motor sailing all the way back in large waves. Every night the lack of air con has me in a small pool of sweat sleeping on what feel like wet blankets. Instead of waves lulling you to sleep they made noise or got larger over the course of the evening becoming uncomfortable (or making me think we must be draggin). We were not great sailors - at one point rushing a decision resulted in a headsail flapping free and a rope whacking my thumb like a hammer. The house batteries died in harbor forcing us to change sides for the night due to the alarm (and not knowing how to turn it off). I mean, rough going to be honest at pretty much every step of the way.

We did enjoy one night where we had a whole bay to ourselves and cooked up lobster on the bbq. The weather was nice. Sitting out in the evening and watching the stars with a nice bottle of wine was great. The quiet when the wind was not around was great. The 'idea' we both agreed was ideal; freedom, fairly inexpensive, interesting places, interesting people etc etc. The reality though, well, I dunno.

So, with that all said I am wondering what the rest of you think. We are both not sure where to go from here. I still like the idea but I now know there are a lot of things that I just did not enjoy. Yes, we were able to fix things as they arose but I didn't expect literally something to be every day if not more. I just really am not sure its for either of us.

Thoughts?

Regards.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

You're only problem is lack of experience, and knowledge. After 20+ years of sailing my own boats, and a lot of cruising. I am still a novice, and learning constantly.

If you think this is what you want to do. You need to buy a small daysailor, and sail the paint off her bottom. The mistakes newbies make. Is that act as if it's like driving a car. Bless the Bumfuzzles for making it, but it's rare for a newbie to have everything go their way. Most newbies get your experience. That doesn't mean at sometime you can't enjoy the bliss cruising can bring. Just hang in there, and get some sailing time in..........*i2f*


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

Man that sucks sounds like boats are not for you, why dont you try RV's.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Sounds to me like you just got the normal first season snafus all in a week or two.. on a boat that wasn't yours and perhaps was not as well maintained as it should have been.

A 38' cat's a lot of boat for a newbie when things go badly. I like I2fs recommendations... start smaller, get a firm grip on the basics and transfer those skills to something bigger down the road.

Working through the night time worries? forget it.. in some shape or form they'll always be there, you just get used to noises that are normal, deal with expected problems better down the road, etc. Whatever you do don't start using earplugs... that 'bump' in the night might one day save your lives..


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Heh, speaking of rv's - I did a five week 10,000 mile road trip this past summer and loved it. In that whole trip I had Mr. Lube do an oil change; very much the opposite of my daily experience on a boat. There are a lot of things to not like about that kind of life as well of course but its a bit off topic.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*If the lack of AC really bugs you... yeah, move on.*

Every other problem was preventable with experience or a familiar boat.

The lack of AC in warm climates - that is part of the course, and if you don't like it, don't go tropical. Go Maine or BC. But there will always be some discomfort.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Those posting above that suggest your problems would dimenish with experience and familiarity with your own equipment are correct. The only point I would contest is the advise to stay out of the tropics to best adapt to the stresses of temperatures. Records show the harshest summer temperatures are typically in the areas from 25 to 35 degrees of latitude, while the tropics rarely experience these same discomforts. Many people thrive aboard vessels in the trade wind easterlies between 10 & 20 degrees of latitude with days in the eighties (fahrenheit) while those in the mid-latitudes are in the high nineties. We, more often, take another choice and cruise to Maine for the summers and keep to the lower latitudes in the winter. We've lived aboard and cruised for four decades and maintenance keeps me alert, but not awake at night. Once your know your boat and the cycles of need, the great majority of maintenance will be preventative and not an emergency. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Do you golf? I used to, but don't really anymore (any good day for golfing is a good day for sailing). Anyway, golf is a very frustrating game. You sit there staring at this little ball that's not moving. No one is yelling at you. No one is hitting you while you try to strike the ball. No one is trying to throw the ball past you while you swing the club. Nope, the ball just sits there, everyone is quiet, and you can take all the time you need. Yet, you never can get the d*mn thing to go where you want. You spend 90% of your time very frustrated, cursing under your breath, wondering why you decided to "waste" an afternoon like this, and spend lots of money for the privilege to boot!

Why do I raise this in response to your question? Because invariably, there is one shot during every round of golf that you remember because you hit it exactly right. Everything feels perfect, your swing was smooth and easy, the sound of the club head striking the ball is exactly the same as the sound you hear when the pros do it, the rest of your group applauds, and it brings a serene smile over your face. It's called a "Golf Shot." And it's THAT shot that stays in your mind and keeps you coming back to the links, even though you shot a 138. Well, in your situation, keep picturing that one evening you had with the calm winds/seas, lobster on the barbie, nice wine, stars shining bright, and your beautiful wife next to you. That was your Golf Shot. And that's the experience that should keep you coming back, because once you start to get experience, YOUR boat is set up the way you want and properly maintained, there will be many more of those Golf Shot evenings than the ones where you shank the ball into the rough.

Stick with it. Once you get in the groove, sailing will change your life. Forever.


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

I mention rv's because I consider my boat like an rv. I am probable your opposite I hate driving so I would never buy an rv. Sounds like you don't like boating. If you cant sleep well in a 38' cat because it moves to much do you realy think a smaller boat is more stable? I always like to say little boats Rock Better.


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## alwheeler98 (Oct 6, 2008)

Although I don't golf, I think danielgoldburg's analogy makes sense.

My husband and I both agree...a bad day of sailing just means, later on, you have a good story to tell.

PS You can buy hat clips, or just don't get too attached to your hats. Or when the hat goes over, use it as a man overboard drill


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

alwheeler98 said:


> ....PS You can buy hat clips, or just don't get too attached to your hats. Or *when the hat goes over, use it as a man overboard drill*


That's what we do, every time.... (and we do it fairly often  )


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Ducky,

You and your wife are trying to change the most personal comforts and habits in your lives, it doesn't happen all at once. I have made this suggestion to people before, try giving it up slowly and changing a little bit at a time instead of just doing it all at once. What do I mean ? Well, you knew you were going to be without air conditioning, so why did you use air conditioning at home this summer (you know you did!) ? You could have turned it off, right ? But you kept it on, because it is comfortable. Good news is that it can work out, if you live without air conditioning in the heat and learn to use the breezes, maybe a few solar powered fans, you can and do get used to it, after a while you don't even notice the heat unless it is an extraordinary day of record breaking temperatures, and those you sometimes just have to suffer through. Also, your comfort level stops being binary, you aren't just comfortable and not comfortable, there are shades of grey without air conditioning, you just learn to deal with it.

But the point is you don't learn to deal with it in a day, or a week. Like others have said, you have to give it a chance and gain experience. I would not recommend waiting until the last minute to make all the changes you want to make. As you have already found out, you don't want to just leave air conditioning, warm heat (in winter), having a car to go places, having fast food and meals cooked for you, having lots of space, all the water you can use including warm water, etc ... and suddenly be doing water conservation, living in a small area with each other, cooking food yourself, not having heat or air conditioning, and all the rest. It takes time to change things, it takes time for you to realize that when you don't have unlimited heat that you need fuzzy slippers to stay warm. You don't want to give it all up one day and totally change everything the next in one day, at least I didn't.

All that said, it'll never be as comfortable as a house. That's just how it is.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Uh, we did use the hat as a man overboard drill (we were under power). Well uh, the man overboard drowned as he was lost from sight shortly thereafter and then went under. Doh!

The catch is currently, neither of us would be dying to push for another vacation like that - it wasn't relaxing. One thing we got out of that vacation was the desire for a genuinely relaxing one so we booked up a beautiful house we know of down in southern Australia for next year for instance immediately upon our return. I don't think that is a good tiding I have to say.

I now know what is meant by the extreme highs and lows at least; the catch was on this trip there seemed to be more of the lows. I was proud of our ability to 'mcgiver' things back together and whatnot. I was not expecting to have to do anywhere near as much of it; on our competent crew course we had none of the issues with jamming windlasses or busted lazy jacks or batteries.

The other 'catch' is for us, we wouldn't want to get a smaller boat - it isn't practical around where we live and in a year if things went to plan we would have been thinking about 'the real deal'. For financial/tax reasons, we couldn't be somewhere nice/easy for a long time on end so would be getting dropped into the deep end fairly quickly - no learning on a 25 footer basically.

The other thing on that point I learned - if anything I would want slightly bigger if anything. I also learned that I really think if I had to do it today (which I wouldn't), I would not get any cat that was not like an Atlantic with the wheel in the center of the boat and a wheelhouse inside. It just felt downright dangerous getting around on deck; and the seas were only 2 meters as an estimate.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm speaking strictly from my experiences of "trying new things" and not my "vast" experiences sailing-

New things really worth doing rarely come easily to people who are just starting out. You have to work at it, and get good at it. As odd as this sounds, if you're GOOD at it, and still don't enjoy it (whatever "it" is), then it's not for you. That way you can discern why you really don't like doing something.

It seems to me that you kind of burdened yourself with additional problems-

You rented a boat, it wasn't yours, wasn't maintained to your standards, the boat was a big question mark in your head, so you were unable to relax and sleep well at night, and you spent time repairing stuff that you shouldn't have. Get your own boat, learn it, eat, sleep and live it. You're know everything about it, and you'll sleep well at night.

Physical discomfort-

Do you want to "Rule in Hell" or "Serve in Heaven"? That means, do you want to work your own boat, or hire a captain and be passengers so you can relax and not work the boat? People here have A/C and generators. It seems to me that if you can afford to liveaboard and cruise, you can afford an A/C unit to take the edge off.

Me, I'd rather "rule in hell". I'd rather own my own vessel (no matter how gnarly), be the owner and master. I want to work, get bruised and sore, and I want to endure a little discomfort. I want to be un-spoiled for a while.

I think that once you get that stuff straightened out, you'll know if you're a sailor or not.


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Of all the activities you can undertake, sailing is probably one of the most challenging ones. Not is there an awful lot to learn, but every time you leave the dock, you're pretty much on your own. If something breaks, you'll have to fix it. If you screw up, there's nobody to blame but yourself. Safety concerns will always occupy your mind. You'll start thinking about weather reports in a whole new way.

This being said, I commend you on your efforts to get training and experience. Without this you will never be able to determine if sailing/cruising is right for you.

As previously suggested, start off small. Pick up something inexpensive in the 25-30 ft. range and use the heck out of it. Once you've gained the confidence that can only come from experience, think about buying something larger. If you find out that sailing is not for you, sell the boat and move on. Believe it or not, not everyone is cut out to be a sailor, or an RV'er for that matter.

Good luck!


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe you aren't cut out for sailing.....there's no disgrace in that. There are other hobbies/adventures/sports/way of life for one to explore. And if you aren't cut out for sailing, it's good to know before you invest a lot of money in a boat.

Or, you might like sailing, but on a different scale....not everyone who enjoys sailing cruises the bluewater or islands. Find the portion you like.

And, as mentioned by others, many of the problems you encountered are just things that happen when one is new and inexperienced. And some aren't really problems...big deal on a hat blown off and lost. Clip it on next time. If you have researched it for a long time, but actually sailed just a short time, give the sailing aspect a little more time before you make your final decision.


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## carmentiger (Dec 27, 2009)

*should I buy*

I'm looking at a full keel 8'9" (seems too big) 1946, 44' wooden sloop with a gas engine 4cylinder gray/marine............it's a beautiful boat that was last inspected 3 years ago and has not been sailed for 3 years
I sail newer boats but this one is beautiful/Talk me out of it or sell me on it/ Anything goes


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

carmentiger said:


> I'm looking at a full keel 8'9" (seems too big) 1946, 44' wooden sloop with a gas engine 4cylinder gray/marine............it's a beautiful boat that was last inspected 3 years ago and has not been sailed for 3 years
> I sail newer boats but this one is beautiful/Talk me out of it or sell me on it/ Anything goes


Welcome to Sailnet, Carmen....

I suggest you start your own thread with your situation and your questions... you'll get more direct responses without diverting the purpose of this original poster's thread.


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Carm,

A boat is a hole in the water you keep trying to fill with money.

An old, wooden boat makes a for a bigger hole. In fact, that giant sucking sound you'll hear won't be coming from the sails. It will be the money flying out of your wallet! 

If you're a rich man, with lots of money to throw away endlessly, go for it.

If you're like most of who were born without a trust fund, take a pass.

Just a humble opinion from someone who spent many weekends trying to keep a 40's era, wooden dive boat afloat and running.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

yellowwducky said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just thought I would share my 'process' so far and just see if there is anything I am missing.
> 
> ...


As I read this, I think your biggest error is unrealistic expectations. You took a week-long course, after which you thought you were qualified to charter a 38 foot catamaran. Maybe on paper, but -- there are folks who've been sailing all their lives that would not feel comfortable doing that.

Twenty five years ago, when I was getting started in sailing, I would not have considered doing what you did. I simply did not have the necessary experience. And while today I would not shy away from skippering a 38' catamaran, by the same token I would not expect to enjoy a purely relaxing vacation aboard any unfamiliar large boat in unfamiliar waters. There are simply too many unknowns in that equation -- unknown boat, unknown equipment, unknown waters.

And I have a fair bit of sailing experience. You have -- how much? Heck, Einstein was an avid sailor but despite many years of application by most accounts he never got particularly good at it. And you expected to relax?

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh -- I don't intend it that way. I just want to inject a dose of reality and realistic expectations. I encourage you to stick with it, but in a smaller boat that allows you to build necessary skills, those that will eventually give you the experience and confidence to take on larger sailing challenges.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*I think this time you answered your own question, fully.*



yellowwducky said:


> Uh, we did use the hat as a man overboard drill (we were under power). Well uh, the man overboard drowned as he was lost from sight shortly thereafter and then went under. Doh!
> 
> The catch is currently, neither of us would be dying to push for another vacation like that - it wasn't relaxing. One thing we got out of that vacation was the desire for a genuinely relaxing one so we booked up a beautiful house we know of down in southern Australia for next year for instance immediately upon our return. I don't think that is a good tiding I have to say.
> 
> ...


No, you are not cut out to be a sailor.

The primary reason is that you are not realistic and honest with yourself about either your abilities or your expectations. that is a very dangerous combination.

I am also not certain you will ever enjoy sailing, as the challenge is not important to you.

I would suggest an RV or small powerboat.

Am I snobbish? Perhaps. I have also tought mountaineering, and there is nothing more frightening than a beginner that is not honest with themselves. You jumped in with both feet when you were not ready, and never realized that that was the primary problem, even in retrospect.

(That you thought a jammed windlass or broken lazyjacks were problems is interesting; neither is needed in the first place. If you could not pick up the hat and lost sight of it is very bad. That no AC bugs you is funny, that other boaters crowding you bothered you is too bad, and dragging at anchor is dangerous - anchoring in sand is straightforward but you need to learn how. You actually did not have any problems.)


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

danielgoldberg said:


> Do you golf? I used to, but don't really anymore (any good day for golfing is a good day for sailing). Anyway, golf is a very frustrating game. You sit there staring at this little ball that's not moving. No one is yelling at you. No one is hitting you while you try to strike the ball. No one is trying to throw the ball past you while you swing the club. Nope, the ball just sits there, everyone is quiet, and you can take all the time you need. Yet, you never can get the d*mn thing to go where you want. You spend 90% of your time very frustrated, cursing under your breath, wondering why you decided to "waste" an afternoon like this, and spend lots of money for the privilege to boot!
> 
> Why do I raise this in response to your question? Because invariably, there is one shot during every round of golf that you remember because you hit it exactly right. Everything feels perfect, your swing was smooth and easy, the sound of the club head striking the ball is exactly the same as the sound you hear when the pros do it, the rest of your group applauds, and it brings a serene smile over your face. It's called a "Golf Shot." And it's THAT shot that stays in your mind and keeps you coming back to the links, even though you shot a 138. Well, in your situation, keep picturing that one evening you had with the calm winds/seas, lobster on the barbie, nice wine, stars shining bright, and your beautiful wife next to you. That was your Golf Shot. And that's the experience that should keep you coming back, because once you start to get experience, YOUR boat is set up the way you want and properly maintained, there will be many more of those Golf Shot evenings than the ones where you shank the ball into the rough.
> 
> Stick with it. Once you get in the groove, sailing will change your life. Forever.


Daniel.....That was an exceptional piece of literary prose....I just read it out loud to my whole family and they all agreed!

well done!!...Lets go shank a few together some day.....or we could just go Sailing!...


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

danielgoldberg said:


> Do you golf?............


It really is amazing how golf and sailing are alike in that manner. I suck just about equally at both, but am drawn to each in a way similar to the way you describe. It's that great chip out of the sand or the perfectly executed gybe, reading the green perfectly or reading the wind perfectly, the beautiful walk on the links with my uncle or the gorgeous sunset on the hook with my wife that keep me coming back. And improvements in my competence in either are measured in millimeters, not miles. With experience I not so much quit making stupid shots or doing stupid things as much as I increase the time in between doing them.


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## alwheeler98 (Oct 6, 2008)

yellowwducky said:


> Uh, we did use the hat as a man overboard drill (we were under power). Well uh, the man overboard drowned as he was lost from sight shortly thereafter and then went under. Doh!


Yeah...hats don't seem to have much of a survival instinct. We lost our first "man overboard" too.


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## Jovietal (Oct 12, 2006)

Having cruised I would say that there are a lot of days like you describe
We were struck by lightning our lives were spared but everything electronic was killed. Knowing your boat is a life long experience as long as you own it you will probably be rebuilding it or improving it....but that's the draw for some folks the challenge and then the reward...which is always sweeter when there is a challenge.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

pdqaltair said:


> No, you are not cut out to be a sailor.
> 
> If you could not pick up the hat and lost sight of it is very bad.......


BTW, Ducky, I don't pass pdqaltair's grade either. I have had HOBs lost and presumed drowned.  I hold out the faintest hope that they may have floated to safety and are living happily on someone else's head.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, I can address some incremental points - not in any particular order but as they come to mind.
Firstly, I don't think I quite 'jumped in with both feet' to the degree mentioned. We took a full week of course work onboard at 42 foot monohull. This is precisely the thing I have seen many mention here as mandatory (compared to people like the Bums who basically did an overnight passage out of sight of land as their first real experience). Clearly it isn’t the same as having 20 years experience before getting on a boat but its better than nothing and is the bare minimum we were comfortable with; you do have to start somewhere.

We were smart about a couple things – we went back to the same place we did our coursework so the area was familiar and our boat, length wise at least, was actually smaller (and as small as we could charter in length). Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying we are Whitsunday Island vets but we did know about which way the tides would go, which way the wind was going to be coming from, where we were going to go (having been to the spots before) etc. So it wasn’t just a lark and showing up and taking out a ‘big’ boat and not knowing anything. That course experience looking back at it now went very smoothly; partly of course because we had an instructor on board but also because ‘things’ were not causing issues. Unsurprisingly, our charter was not as smooth – although some of that was the boat.

Now I also admit our ‘things’ were not deal breakers – we did ‘fix’ the lazy jacks, we did sort windlass issues. These things just made things less enjoyable – raising and lowering the main became a pain for instance and the windlass made it difficult to raise anchor (not to mention steer over the chain as my wife had to watch the windlass locker more than the front of the boat). We did survive and we didn’t damage the boat after all so we must have done a few things right. It really did add an ‘edge’ though to the experience.

For us, the issues were not related to the size of the boat at all as I mentioned. It was a very comfortable size to be honest and being a cat it was very maneuverable (get in position to drop/ using the engines to set anchors/ get up on the chain when raising it was easy actually). It would have been worse on a monohull in my opinion (maneuvering with one engine would be a bigger pain). I also don’t believe being on a 10 foot smaller boat would have improved the experience, it might have just made yanking up a mainsail a bit simpler due to a smaller mass of material. I would have still been nervous about dragging overnight. I likely would have made the same mistake and got my finger smacked by a rope – we never did that again by the way!
We were very realistic in our expectations – we knew we didn’t have a lot of experience and were very careful and cautious sailing and anchoring. In a way, I think that is part of the reason why I was so uncomfortable in the evenings – because I was so worried about being safe. This was good as it had me checking our position all the time but bad in that I was getting minimal sleep at night making for a very tired sailor by the end of the week.

I believe that was part of the reason why we just motor sailed it in on the last day – I was tired and just couldn’t be bothered. The day before I was enjoying the sailing but the wife had gotten stressed about that channel passage and we stopped early for her peace of mind. The only reason we had gone through that channel was because we needed to get the boat parked by 445pm otherwise we would have had a much more leisurely sail. In this case, the charter experience puts pressure on you in a way that wouldn’t exist if you just had your own boat. Something one should think about before chartering; there is incremental stresses you don't otherwise have.

So to reiterate again, the pluses were we were able to fix things, we didn’t damage anything, we could navigate, anchor (one exception where we just didn’t want to bother at that point to try again), we could moor, we could live/cook. I didn’t expect to have as many issues as we did although I know that boats will always have issues. It was surprising though to have none on our lessons but something each day on our charter. It felt good getting things fixed but at the same time it was a pain in the backside – maybe that’s where we goofed expecting a smooth and easy trip like the course and hence had expectations for smoother than ‘normal’. Dunno.

What we learned:
38 foot is a good size although at bit bigger would likely feel safer.
If we had a boat, it would have another winch and they would be slightly larger and we would be looking for something without a steering position at the side
Things go wrong and you need to get them sorted
We need more experience sailing or chartering
Navigation is pretty straightforward
There are numerous sacrifices to comfort; air con, no water, dodgy fridges
There are numerous pluses as well.
We don’t really know if its for us; even having been back and thought about things. Aspects still seem very very appealing (freedom, friends, learning things) while others seem daunting (thinking about dragging or 30 foot waves for instance).

Thanks to all for feedback. Some good points have been made. That said I still don’t agree that one has to start in a dingy, then get a laser, then get a small sloop, then get a slightly larger ketch, then get a slightly larger cat, then get a slightly larger tri, then finally maybe after 25 years one would be ‘able’ to get a 38 foot cat to actually go sailing. Its financial suicide to be doing all that buying and selling of boats. I look at what I have learned (and admit it is only scratching the surface) and if anything I don’t see how sailing a 25 foot xyz would aid me in any way vs going out again on that very same 38 footer.

There is definitely a subset of the sailing community that is very negative towards anyone sailing without having learned how to do absolutely everything (stitch their own sails, arc weld, celestial nav theory course, morse code learning etc etc etc etc etc etc) before ever stepping foot on a boat. Its simply not realistic. I have one friend who insists that to sail around the world one would have to travel with a spare mast and engine on board; uh sure, and why not just tow a whole spare boat and have an escape helicopter too! Being conservative is good, but sometimes one can take it a bit too far.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

yellowwducky said:


> why not just tow a whole spare boat and have an escape helicopter too! Being conservative is good, but sometimes one can take it a bit too far.


Yep that 's what my wife would need all right...


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Ducky,

Great, honest response!

Yes, there is an "elite" segment of the sailing community that tends to look down their noses at newbies. Unfortunately, whenever you pose questions on boards like this, some folks just can't wait to denigrate you and make light of your concerns. I suspect that some of these folks have never sailed out of the sight of land. IMHO.

To my way of thinking, the primary purpose of boating/cruising is to have a good time. Why would anyone set out to have a bad time? If you decide to motor sail all day, who cares? If you have trouble sleeping while anchored out, welcome to the club. Most of us feel the same way, especially when there is wind and tide to contend with. The only thing you need concern yourself with are having a good time, safely. 

Finally, do what feels right for you, not the "experts".


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Great answer Ducky.

Based on what you've said, I really think you'll have an easier time of it (mentally and physically) if you just have your own boat vs. chartering.

You'll maintain it, you'll know it's condition and you'll rest easier at night. You won't be rushed to "get the rental back in time".

Many of the experienced people here say: "A schedule is the first broken item on a sailboat". If you have your own boat (whatever the size), you're on your terms, and not some charter company.

Good luck, whatever you do.


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## degreeoff (Oct 25, 2009)

Here I go ....beating the horse though its long dead........

Keep going, don't give in. If you golf like me you will find alot hell of a lot more shots that keep you coming back with sailing than with golf!

Every single time I take the boat out I have at least 1 "good shot moment" so dont throw in the towel just yet!

I also support the idea of a boat of your own thats is 30 ft.....its not too big and will have most home style comforts for a long weekend. Sail the paint off it if you have that much time and do some solo work skipper, it'll teach you lots.....

Last bit of advice would be go mono hull....smoother boats IMHO...but that is what it is....

God I love sailing.

Josh (on the hard) 2x's


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I don't see anything wrong with learning morse code, welding, sewing sails, etc.


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

RubberDucky
You've learned one of the most important lessons of sailing -- the worst thing you can do is try to keep a schedule. Boats and even lives have been lost because people decided that they had to have the boat at a certain place at a certain time come hell or high water.
But enough of that. I happen to agree with you about not working your way up from dinghies to larger and larger boats. Most of us went that route but that's beuase we started very young and worked our way up. One thing I've found -- things happen slower on larger boats, gives you more time to react.
It doesn't seem like what happened to you was all that terrible. The broken lazyjacks -- actually never heard of that happening before -- just meant you had to head into the wind to raise or lower the main. The windlass would be a pain. But as has been pointed out these are not the kind of things that should have happened on a well-maintained charter boat.
Air conditioning, you'll have to decide whether you can do without.
Anchoring, you need practice that's all. 
As for not getting any sleep. I think if you ask around you'll find that most sailors will wake instantly at any unusual motion or noise. The thing is that nmost of us know our boats well enough that we only awake to something unusual. 
But the big question is one only yuou and your wife can answer. When you look inside yourselves is sailing what you really want to do? You need to answer that before redo you life. Maybe a couple more charters.
Anyway good luck


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## PJo (Dec 30, 2008)

Yellowwducky, not to worry. The 1st year (or season) has an incredible learning curve, I know because my husband and I just finished our first. What the corporate world doesn't teach you is patience and with sailing patience and the ability to constantly arise to whatever occasion is always foremost. Once you begin to meet more sailors, it becomes easier, too. If you love relaxing after a long day of working on your boat and enjoying meals with friends and your wife, then continue your new journey. There are no instant answers, patience is key. Your hands will never be idol and your heart will never be empty. The sea and your travels will give you wonderful stories to tell. My first boat is a 35' and everyone tells me that it's entirely too big for my first boat, but after taking the Coast Guard Sailing Fundamentals class, I took her out and each day we're out, we learn, I cry and we get up and do it again. I've met some wonderful people, and my husband, normally a solitary man has found kinship in fellow sailors. We just won 1st place in the Marina del Rey Christmas Boat Parade and celebrating 1 year of owning our boat. I've been where you're sitting and, trust me on this, you'll regret giving up before you've even started your journey. Wishing you fair winds and following seas.


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## sarafinadh (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi Ducky.

We are somewhat in your situation.One rusty, moderately experienced bay sailor and one railmeat considering cruising. 

We have bought a pocket cruiser to learn on for a few years. We are not sure that full time will be for us but we are working towards it and learning.

The thing that struck me about your post is it just sounds as if you neither of you had much fun. For us it boils down to that.

When I have been out on classes with training going on, under pressure and trying to remember everything I need to do, when we have been trying to sail our boat and things have gone wrong and been challenging to some degree or other, when we get back to the dock I can't WAIT to take her out again, fix the issues that caused or became challenges and try again. I even enjoy the challenges and figuring out how to deal with the *problems*.

I am not hearing that from you. It sounds like those challenges were just a pain in the ass for you, not a part of the process. And that makes me think maybe this isn't for you.

Life is not a dress rehearsal and you only get to do it once. Do the stuff that makes you happy when ever possible!

Kudos for giving it a try and maybe it is something that you can learn to love, but maybe not. Maybe there is sonething else that will make you happy!


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## PJo (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Sara, I believe you're reply was intended for Yellowwducky but came to me and not certain how to tell you to connect to the original message from Yellowwducky. 

All the best on the seas,
Pamela


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sarafinadh said:


> Life is not a dress rehearsal and you only get to do it once. Do the stuff that makes you happy when ever possible!


+1 Saraf.


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## sarafinadh (Jun 16, 2009)

PJo said:


> Hi Sara, I believe you're reply was intended for Yellowwducky but came to me and not certain how to tell you to connect to the original message from Yellowwducky.
> 
> All the best on the seas,
> Pamela


Hi Pam, you are running into a feature on the forum. When you post to a thread, as you did earlier, you are automatically subscribed to the thread. When ever anyone posts again to that thread you will get a notice in your email with the new post and a link back to the thread. This allows users to stay up to date on threads that are active and of interest to them. There is also a feature that allows you to unsubscribe from a thread you no longer wish to get updates on.

When you replied to what you thought was an email from me to you you were actually posting again to the thread. (You may know this already ; -)

Above the first post is a button called thread tools. under it in a drop down in an unsubscribe option for those threads you don't want to follow. This will stop the emails coming to your mail box.

Regards,
Sara


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Cruising is not for you*

Hello,

IMHO, cruising is not for you. Don't feel bad, it's not for most people.

I love sailing and go as often as I can. But I have no desire to live on a boat and cruise around. I love to sail for a few hours, a weekend here and there, and a week or two. Longer than a week does not appeal to me at all.

Living on a boat is difficult! The thing moves all the time, it never stops, it's never quiet (well during a calm it is but that doesn't last). Things that are simple on land are difficult on the water. Things like buying groceries and getting them stowed, taking a shower, even getting on and off the boat can be a challenge.

And things on a boat break much more often than things on land. If you think that a broken windlass and lazy jacks cause problems, just wait until the engine doesn't start or the sails won't furl or the autopilot dies. Those are serious problems.

No offense, but I would suggest a difference activity. If you enjoy sailing then get a small boat, say 16-20' and day sail.

Good luck,
Barry


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Well, certainly you've discovered Sailnet is one heck of a resource. I'm not surprised that some have responded that maybe sailing's not for you. That may or not may true.

Or, it's just that sailing on the level you're considering is not for you. I've been sailing since the 70's and I often dreamed of ful-timing it, or going on long cruises, etc. Trouble is, I have too many interests that require living in a conventional house.

I'm entirely satisfied with having our Catalina 309 in a slip 15 minutes from my home here in Muskegon, Michigan. I sail whenever I want. Day, afternoon, couple weeks...whatever. It's easy to keep up with the maintenance (expensive, but easy). Basically, we're able to bite off as much as we want to chew with regard to our sailing experiences. 

I'm suggesting that instead of going "all in" on it, consider a 30 (ish) footer in a slip that you can easily access, where you can get to some nice sailng reasonably quickly. Furthermore, don't rule out the Great Lakes. You can't sail all year, but the weather is moderate, there's no salt in the water, nothing in the water that wants to bite you, and no tides to deal with. And the cruising is incredible. And just about everywhere you go, the natives speak English.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Good prose... but off course, I think.*



Stillraining said:


> Daniel.....That was an exceptional piece of literary prose....I just read it out loud to my whole family and they all agreed!
> 
> well done!!...Lets go shank a few together some day.....or we could just go Sailing!...


What he enjoyed was actually a club house dinner, not the game of golf, just as an anchorage in a tourist area is not sailing. It is the clubhouse view.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

pdqaltair said:


> What he enjoyed was actually a club house dinner, not the game of golf, just as an anchorage in a tourist area is not sailing. It is the clubhouse view.


Frankly pdqaltair, in this little golf analogy, you are to me coming off as the club member looking down his nose at the poor fella playing on the municipal course. You're saying, if he is not a member of my club, he's not really playing golf. Pretty narrow view, IMHO.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*My apologies. It wasn't meant to be taken that way.*



Izzy1414 said:


> Frankly pdqaltair, in this little golf analogy, you are to me coming off as the club member looking down his nose at the poor fella playing on the municipal course. You're saying, if he is not a member of my club, he's not really playing golf. Pretty narrow view, IMHO.


I'm not club player, I assure you. I've hit under hundred, just, and then quit. Never belonged to a club, and only played one when invited. Not my game.

I've never owned a new boat. I've never paid another man to make a repair or to maintain my boat, not in 25 years. I stay in a $100/month marina.

What I meant is that enjoying a relaxing anchorage may be nice, but it is not sailing. A "golf shot" is played on the course, not after the 18th green. If you only enjoy a good dinner after the game, you are not a golfer and you are not enjoying the game.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm just sayin', Ducky was in the club house, *after a round of golf*. Granted, his ratio of golf shots to shanks was low, but hey, he was out there hittin' the ball. Everybody grumbles a bit at the 19th hole after a bad round. Doesn't mean that some schmo who thinks he's got Tiger's game should tell him he's not golfin'.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Ducky- seems to me that you have a pretty realistic handle on your experience. The dream is usually a lot different than reality. I would think that giving it another try, since you are still wondering about it, on a boat similar to what you envision buying would be time and money well spent. Check the boat out well to avoid a recurrence of the problems you had with the first and perhaps go for two weeks so you can actually do some relaxing. If you come back and you aren't in love with it, move on to something you both enjoy more. Hope it works out for you, good luck.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

My hunch is we are going to have to give it another go - expecting not smooth like we had but maybe getting somewhere in between that and the smoothness of the instruction sail.

I still think it 'in theory' is dang near a perfect combination and the wife agrees it is/was a great idea. We both knew it would be a steep curve. We both knew how boats would be having done the course (small bathrooms, crappy fridges, running an engine to get hot water and charge batteries etc etc). I didn't expect to get thrown so much by anchoring and the wife didn't expect to get stressed as much (and stay that way afterwards). Neither of us was expecting to be sailing in QE2 comfort. We were fine and excited initially but the gear issues definitely raised some doubts early which kinda stuck with us afterwards for the rest of the trip. Throw incremental (albeit minor in the grand scheme of things) issues into the mix and as noobs I think it just started to weigh on us.

I still remember coming in to get the lazyjacks looked at (we were going by the marina anyway) and opting to stay the evening. It would be nice to recharge and regroup and thats what we decided that evening. What can go wrong in the marina after all so rest up and relax and get out at it again. Well, thats the night that the battery died and the alarm went off at 3am. I mean, it was really feeling like the boat was cursed I tell you. And an fyi, the reason it died was a new staff member unfamiliar with the boat had left the inverter/fridge/water heater on via the shore panel selector - this meant the trickle charger couldn't keep up even plugged into shore power and hence 3am dead batteries.

Some things to think about thats for sure. I am glad we are not alone in having issues like these - I don't think many are quite so willing to admit them though!


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

I agree with JRP that the most significant problem underlying everything else was unrealistic expectations. The wish to have a relaxing vacation this way was probably not going to happen. I think you were expecting more of a cruise ship vacation in the sense of wanting to relax and enjoy being on the water and not having to deal with problems, instead of the much more likely sailing "adventure" that would naturally come of the approach you took. If you decide to continue sailing however, you did get some very valuable experience that could go a long way to making future adventures more enjoyable. Lesson #122 - you handled the first 121 really well  - don't expect relaxation, expect adventure.

I think some of us are saying that sailing may not be for you because you seem so disappointed in the outcome you had, while many of us have experienced similar outcomes many times over and still love sailing. Why do we still love sailing after all this "hardship"? In part, as JRP said, we may have worked up a little more gradually to this type of experience, but also we don’t expect outings like this to always be relaxing especially at first. We enjoy the challenges and learning and working around problems whatever may come, and being out in nature even if it's uncomfortable at times. Then, once we've understood much more about all that is involved, we're in a much better position to put together that relaxing vacation on the water. We know better how to set things up in a way that limits hassles similar to those you're referring to, or instead we've learned not to care about some of these problems. We bring a hat clip along, maybe we have A/C on the boat now if we really care about that, we know how to manage anchor dragging issues, etc. etc. We also know that things don't always go as planned, so we're not so disappointed when they don’t. 

The course you took was a really good idea and it clearly contributed to the level of success you did have, and it minimized what could have been more serious risks. Also, your methodical approach can serve you very well in sailing. The problem is only that you should not have thought of the course as being sufficient for you to jump right to your end goal of having a relaxing sailing vacation. Ya gotta pay your dues a little more. Otherwise, you'll probably need to consider a "hybrid approach" of some kind, such as bringing along a more experienced friend, sailing in a more protected area, etc., or go with another approach altogether (e.g., the cruise ship approach). 

If you have a good understanding of what sailing is and what it is not, it can be extremely rewarding. If you view the challenges and overcoming these problems as part of the fun, in addition to being out on the water, than it probably is for you. If you think of these as ruining your enjoyment, then it may not be for you. As stated earlier, if you get your own boat, you'll be spending a lot of money on it, so it should be something you have your heart in.


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

Hey Duck I might have missed it but in your post you never mention likeing sailing ( putting up the sails and powering you boat with the wind). When I took a weekend course I fell in love with sailing. Soon after that I bought a boat and sailed it some 30 nm miles home ( we hit land lost a day and it sleeted on us over night). Believe it or not we still had a great time and every other time we go out its great. Yes things go wrong one time my brother's $ 60.00 fishing pole whent over and he tried to blame his son. I just started to laughing when he was yelling at his son then he started to laughing. Sailing is hard, not sure if it is anything like golf ( I do play golf ). In golf when I dont sink my putt it cost a stoke in sailing when I sink a 36' boat its priceless. If you still need to buy a boat because in theory it works then you should go down to a Marina like Pdq is at and take a look at all the boats that where other peoples "Dreams" and are now there " Nightmares ". One ladys nightmare sank last week in her slip will cost over $ 15,000.00 to salvage she had no insurance. I never played a round of golf where I thought I could lose $15,000.00 but I dont gamble. Well maybe I do gamble I did buy a boat. 
Good luck I believe you did the right thing you gave it a try now decide if you are going to force it or pull up the anchor and move on.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Agreed. I don't have Tiger's game...*



Izzy1414 said:


> I'm just sayin', Ducky was in the club house, *after a round of golf*. Granted, his ratio of golf shots to shanks was low, but hey, he was out there hittin' the ball. Everybody grumbles a bit at the 19th hole after a bad round. Doesn't mean that some schmo who thinks he's got Tiger's game should tell him he's not golfin'.


but I enjoy the struggle for its own sake. That is golf, and that is sailing.

My other passion is mountaineering, and the struggle is everything - you must enjoy the process or the risk would rapidly lose its appeal and you would scare yourself to death. Perhaps that has shaped my views.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Is sailing for you, and yours? Only you can answer that question. You are not willing to admit you jumped in with both feet before you were ready, but it's the honest truth.

There's nothing wrong with being bold, but you will need to admit to yourself that you bit off more than you could chew. Sailing is not rocket science, but it can kill you. I look at it more as an art form. 20+ yrs of owning my own boats, and still there is so much to learn.

I have single-handed from S.F. Ca. to Cabo, and back. I sailed at least once a week on S.F. Bay, and many times 4 times a week for 10 years. I have put over 10k miles on my cat in the first 3 years of owning it, and still things go wrong. With sailing things will always go wrong. You will need to learn to get satisfaction with making it right.

Familiarity with a vessel is extremely important. Knowing it inside, and out can not be dismissed. Your story is told countless times. There are harbors full of broken dreams, and disappointment. Typing that, you also need to understand in the next berth are boats that completely fulfill dreams. Sailing is not always a slick magazine cover. There's trying times involved, and scraped knuckles. It's just part of it!

It's the satisfaction of overcoming problems that is the reward for some. Some it is the journey while others it is the destination. For me it's all the above, and more. BEST WISHES in whatever direction you choose. Just remember you need to crawl before you can run. It's just the way life is!.......*i2f*


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

pdqaltair said:


> but I enjoy the struggle for its own sake. That is golf, and that is sailing.
> 
> My other passion is mountaineering, and the struggle is everything - you must enjoy the process or the risk would rapidly lose its appeal and you would scare yourself to death. Perhaps that has shaped my views.


Exactly. That was my thought as I read Ducky's original post ....... whether he and his wife had the passion to keep drawing them back. To me, the answer to his question doesn't have as much to do with unrealistic expectations or being unprepared as it does whether they actually enjoy overcoming the challenges that sailing present. For the record, I agreed with your comments until you started to imply that he was being dangerous, dishonest, and "very bad". I know you were just making an honest assessment and that is what he asked for ....... it just came off as a little elitist to me. It is only my opinion though. You see, I believe that as has been stated by others, there is all kinds of sailing and all kinds of sailors and that sitting on the hook watching the sunset is just as much a part of sailing as raising the mainsail.


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

Izzy1414 said:


> To me, the answer to his question doesn't have as much to do with unrealistic expectations or being unprepared as it does whether they actually enjoy overcoming the challenges that sailing present.


Izzy - These are not inconsistent concepts. We're saying the experience would have been more enjoyable if the going in expectation was more oriented toward "adventure" and problem solving rather than relaxation. Also, with greater preparation (experience), there's less stress since problems are more easily managed. If one has the right expectations going in and still goes forward, the experience is more likely to be considered rewarding instead of an ordeal. The difference between an adventure and an ordeal is your attitude and your perception of the experience.

Lapworth - Excellent point! At some point you'll know if you love sailing for its own sake. There's something special about driving a boat under wind power alone. You either get this or you don't. If ya don't, there's no use pretending, it's too costly.

I2F - Well said.

Yellowducky - Getting a break from the corporate grind - here here! One way or another I wish you success! Work to live if you have to, but don't live to work, yes?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just love it when people start arguing about the metaphor.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Seriously, as I read through this, I'm not so sure the expectations were far off. Ducky, apart from the comfort issues, it sounds like your biggest complaints were with the problems on the boat. The expectation underlying chartering a boat is that it is well-taken care of and ready to go...that you're not going to be having to fix a bunch of crap, but will be able to enjoy sailing and hanging out in beautiful places. Is that unrealistic, really? I don't think so.

It sounds like you got a crappy boat, and it sounds like the staff was pretty crappy as well. That's not a good charter experience no matter how you cut it.

I think a lot of the advice above comes from boat OWNERS - who have the full expectation that we have to put A LOT of continual work into the boat to keep it in good shape. That's a given. As a charterer - that's not your responsibility. And your expectations are perfectly in line with that.

Maybe you should research a bit and find a great charter company with great boats and a great reputation. Split your trip up a bit where you can hang out at the marina off and on and enjoy the boat's air-conditioning, hot-water, etc. Then venture out on day trips or overnighters to a great anchorage. This way you can ease into things and be confident in the boat and the attention you'll get from the staff.

Then when you get to the 19th hole, you'll know you've run the steeplechase as well as any hai-lai player could possibly hope for in the NFL post season. Heck, you might even get to the World Cup and sail right through to the Stanley Cup!


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Hehe, nice one smackdaddy,

Yes, you are probably right to at least some degree. Having been on a course charter with no issues on the boat at all I was likely expecting a few but not a lot of problems. That said, no, the staff were great and helpful and very quick to get things done so there was no problem with the charter company really. A dodgy winch and a lazyjack rope that broke is probably not unreasonable (well, to be honest, I would expect ropes to be top notch on a boat but things happen right).

Looking back I am still trying to figure it out as well as considering everyone's feedback. I really didn't feel the boat was in any way too big. I expected some niggles but got more than I expected, ok enough I guess. I should have known the heat was going to bother me but I never sleep in what is effectively outside conditions (all hatches open) so the dampness of the sheets was definitely 'ugh'; air con as heavy and inefficient as it is would solve that. The fridge was not a top opener type which meant you never really had particularly cold bevvies but that was just due to the fridge type - if I had my own boat it would be a top loader.

Basically, the issues would all be resolveable I think but I really think we will have to do another trip to get a feel for whether we really want to deal with issues. The payoff is 'known' already - those lobsters on the bbq with wine and a sunset were divine (as it was on our trainer course as well). It would be infinitely cheaper to buy a nice suv, throw a pop up tent on the roof and do a massive roadtrip and camp out everywhere and have no where near the issues. Maybe being a land lubber for all my life just makes me take for granted that stuff generally works. Dunno.


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## SSBN506 (Apr 18, 2008)

The fact you posted with you question to me shows you still have the itch to sail. The big question I would ask myself is “do I love the idea of sailing, or do I love actually sailing”. It sounds like you have the right idea to give it another shot. 
For me I never really found sailing relaxing in the sitting on the beach at a resort in Cuba sort of way.(not suggesting you were expecting that either) I found it relaxing in the “I am on my island and I am responsible for it and it requires my undivided attention almost all the time.” That is what makes me forget about the real world and is what I was looking for. I am involved with the boat and have no time to worry about anything ells. 
Just my experience


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Ducky said:


> Maybe being a land lubber for all my life just makes me take for granted that stuff generally works. Dunno.


FWIW...Stuff should/*will* generally work on a boat as well..


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

ssbbn506 thats what I am talking about. Duck are you just trying to live on a boat or do you want to sail ? You could just buy a house boat.

" We must sail sometimes with the wind and sometime against it but sail we must and not drift or lie at anchor " 

Something like that by Oliver Wendell Homes


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

If we were going to do it, we would be doing it to sail - as in sailing even the grizzled vets would give you credit for. Because of tax issues, we couldn't stay in places like Australia/New Zealand/Canada and end up as 'deemed residents' so would be using a boat as a mobile platform to get around. Heck, you can't just stay in xyz caribbean country either so a boat would definitely need to be mobile should we go down this route down the road.


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## SSBN506 (Apr 18, 2008)

Have you looked at any of the modern trawlers as an option? It sounds like you like sailboats but if you decide a sailboat isn't for you a trawler may be a way to stay on the water. Neville Trawlers - Home


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Then when you get to the 19th hole, you'll know you've run the steeplechase as well as any hai-lai player could possibly hope for in the NFL post season. Heck, you might even get to the World Cup and sail right through to the Stanley Cup!


Now there's an elitist's analogy if I ever saw one! Only a true blue blood would leave the inner city kids out.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Izzy1414 said:


> Now there's an elitist's analogy if I ever saw one! Only a true blue blood would leave the inner city kids out.


You mean there are actually KIDS IN THERE? Lord have mercy. I had no idea.

I'll have to have my hot Swedish chauffeur, Ula, drive me in sometime for a look see...and a blintz.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

SSBN506 said:


> Have you looked at any of the modern trawlers as an option? It sounds like you like sailboats but if you decide a sailboat isn't for you a trawler may be a way to stay on the water. Neville Trawlers - Home


Yeah, or motor/sailors or any number of options. RVs were mentioned, but having owned those as well as a boat, I know that stuff is always happenning with them as well. No matter what the toy, there are challenges to overcome.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> I'll have to have my hot Swedish chauffeur, Ula, drive me in sometime for a look see...and a blintz.


Poor, poor Smacky, you've only got the one? Elsa and Erika (the twins) drive me. Elsa is better at the wheel of the rolls while Erika excels at the helm. Of course both do so while looking exceptionally good in their swim suits.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Stillraining said:


> Daniel.....That was an exceptional piece of literary prose....I just read it out loud to my whole family and they all agreed!
> 
> well done!!...Lets go shank a few together some day.....or we could just go Sailing!...


Thanks so much Rainy! Would love to hit some balls off the foredeck into the ocean with ya!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

No divots allowed I presume?


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## BoxedUp (Nov 22, 2006)

*My $.02*

Interesting reading and here's my contribution:

Ducky, I commend you and your wife for trying something new and different. I once opened a fortune cookie and inside it was written "You'll never know unless you try".

Cruising as a lifestyle is very different than cruising for a vacation and maybe one would suit you better than the other.

As mentioned in previous posts, there is no substitute for hands on experience when you take command of a vessel. I was hooked on boating from an early age when I was a guest on my Uncle's boats (all power boats, BTW). When he sold his last boat, there was a lengthy gap between that time and when I bought my own little 19' cuddy cabin. In between, the passion for being on the water was such that I joined the USCG Aux to gain as much hands on knowledge as I could without owning a boat myself and that experience was priceless. The Coast Guard motto, Semper Paratus, meaning "Always Ready", became my motto as well. After the 19' got too small and the kids grew too big, was another time when I was off the water. As Michael Corleone said, "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in", I took up an interest in sailing and took ASA courses that gave me the foundation for sailing skills. I would rent daysailers but then I found Offshore Passage Opportunities at a Strictly Sail show which offered their members the opportunity to crew on larger boats. Again, the knowledge and experience I gained was priceless.

All of this experience prepared me for the day when we bareboat chartered a 39' sloop in the BVI. I was the captain and my now 2 grown boys were my crew and my wife did what she does best and made dinner reservations...

That was the best vacation we ever had and was also the best medicine for attitude adjustments. When sailing, there's no room in the brain for anything other than what is at hand and that gives you the opportunity to clear the head and feel very refreshed at the end of the week. We'll be returning the end of May for another charter and I've been thinking about this trip from the last time we pulled back into base. It's a good alternative to owning your own boat, which is the ultimate goal for *me*.

Which brings me to the most important point....you have to do what's best for you. Let your head rule over your heart because when there's life and property at risk, you need to make the right judgment call.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks for that Boxed up. In the interim I have not given up. We wil see about another trip. Maybe we are just charter people, who knows. I will be getting a lot of travel in mind you - I just bought a roof top tent for my suv for getting around North America. Not sailing but its fun in a different way.


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## BoxedUp (Nov 22, 2006)

yellowwducky said:


> I just bought a roof top tent for my suv for getting around North America. Not sailing but its fun in a different way.


It can be....keep the tent up and trim it to be on a beam reach going down I-80....


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Ducky, do you want us to talk you into it, or talk you out of it?
Your answer is your answer.


(Read this post in your best Christopher Walken voice.  )


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

I noticed that this is an old discussion, but it appeared when I came on to check out new discussions. 
I'm not sure why. I wonder what happened to the original poster, and if he ever tried sailing again.

We started out much the same way he did, but I moved up in boat size much more gradually. I took my week-long bareboat Skippers course in Vancouver Canada on a hunter 31. I then did charters of a Catalina 30, Endeavor 32, Catalina 22, and Catalina 34.


My trips were all mostly very pleasant and without many problems. It sounds like you had the misfortune of experiencing 20 trips worth of problems in one trip.

The experience you gain over time will improve success and enjoyment of your trips. There are a few things I have learned on several Charters. I make sure I bring along a small multi tool so that I know that I have a good working pair of needle-nose pliers, knife and screwdriver.

The chartplotters have and anchor monitoring feature. You can set that at night and leave the chartplotter on to check whenever you get up to go to the bathroom. It will not respond to the boat swaying in an arc at anchor, but if you move out of that arc, it will sound an alarm to let you know that you are dragging anchor.

I've lost two good sailing hats, and now make sure I have the chin strap firmly attached. And I have 3 spare inexpensive sun hats, just in case.

Create safety and procedural checklists in your head. Even write them down if you need to, like a PreFlight checklist card for pilots. It should include "Check Stern to make sure all lines are clear before starting engine".

Develop a practice of diligence in watching the weather, checking frequent weather reports over the VHF, and err on the side of risking too little sail out, rather than being caught with high winds and too much sail.

Get a good tablet or iPad and pay for the Navionics navigation app to have backup, and to have an anchor alarm right next to you in your bunk.

Truck stops sell a nice selection of 12 volt powered fans of different sizes. Buy a couple of your own to toss in your suitcase to have some air moving.


It gets better if you go back to the same place a few times and request a boat you've used before and are used to. It will also get better when you have your own boat and can know what maintenance it has had.

Traveling on land in an RV comes with its own headaches. I know plenty of people who have had flat tires, broken axles, seized wheel bearings, and overheated radiators while traveling with their camper or RV.

The majority of my nights out have been more like your one good night.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Cool thread dredge. I wanna know if he retired from sailing, um 10 years ago. If forum activity is any indicator, probably.


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