# Loner or belonger



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just wondering what sailing groups folks belong to or are more people bowling alone?
Also wondering why people belong to the groups they do and the level of involvement?
Are yacht clubs now just a way to get a mooring?
Is OCC just a way to have a friendly face in a new harbor?
Or CCA just to do a race?
Boat US just for insurance?

You get the idea.

Have a glorious festivus!!!!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

We "belong" to Boat US and the SSCA. The on,y involvement we have is the yearly gam, which is excellent.

We are loners by nature.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

outbound said:


> Just wondering what sailing groups folks belong to or are more people *bowling* alone?
> Also wondering why people belong to the groups they do and the level of involvement?
> Are yacht clubs now just a way to get a mooring?
> Is OCC just a way to have a friendly face in a new harbor?
> ...


Not sure what bowling has to do with boating, Out ..

We belong to two 'yacht clubs' - both very low level 'un-hoity-toity' clubs. The first was our original local club where we lived before.. good facilities, very inexpensive moorage. Historically about 100 members and 60 or so boats (bigger now, it's grown a lot in the last decade) We've maintained associate member status since we've moved for nostalgic reasons mostly.

Squamish Yacht Club

The other is what is nowadays called a 'virtual' yacht club. The Gulf Yacht Club is a BC based association of cruising sailors now in its 50th year. This club is inexpensive to join - $100/year- and to qualify as a member you must have crossed Georgia Strait under sail, overnighted and returned at least once. We still have a few charter members living and participating. We have members scattered up and down the coast as well as some in WA state. Monthly meetings at the local Maritime Museum Sept thru June, and monthly rendezvous' on the water March through October. The club has no facilities, no obligations, no politics.

Gulf Yacht Club - Gulf Yacht Club, We are the friendliest sailing club in Vancouver , BC

Like many clubs we are aging.. and with such an aging group (at 60 we're among the youngest) it's very difficult to attract the younger set with children. I wonder if it can survive and/or rejuvenate itself in the next few years.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Faster there was a book using the decline of bowling leagues as an example of the decline of true in person social organizations and groups.
Similarly the decline of deep religious sentiments in our holidays was what was being alluded to in the signature.

Wonder if forums now are trying to serve the social network function yacht clubs used to do. 

I belonged to one yacht club in the past. It had a very strong youth program producing two gold metal Olympiads. In became uppified so we left along with many of the friends I met in that setting. I was invited to join another. It seemed membership was stick up your butt blue bloods and noveau riche wife swappers so we declined.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Bowling Alone

Bowling Alone.

I had picked that book for a reading group I belonged to.. couple funny things about it. First was everyone told me it was the worse book picked.. ever. Then they would admit they never read it.. to the point they didn't even read 50 pages. And granted it was a big book and a lot to swallow.

The other thing, In the next year, not a month went by where someone didn't point out that the book was cited in another discussion.

I read something on a parallel plane that one of the biggest demise of congress was when Newt Gingrich (I am not saying this to be political) told congress they should go home and talk to their constituents and not each other. The result (un intended consequence) was the congress men were not going to church together... playing softball with each other.. hanging out at the same clubs

And becoming more partisan.

I think this is true everywhere used to be you were a member of the Kiwanis or the Lions Club and it didn't matter if you were a sailboat guy or motor boat guy, you were just working for a common goal and you could see the good in folks you might otherwise not have much to do with.

I would like to think forums do what outbound suggest, but I see people arguing.. but I hope they often find more common bonds than differences (cough coughPirateFlags cough)


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

outbound said:


> ** snip }
> 
> I belonged to one yacht club in the past. It had a very strong youth program producing two gold metal Olympiads. In became uppified so we left along with many of the friends I met in that setting. I was invited to join another. It seemed membership was stick up your butt blue bloods and noveau riche wife swappers so we declined.


um.. does this said club.. check the color of your blood.. before the wife swapping??

..asking for a friend


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

My life experiences have always been outside the norm, whatever "normal" is. I work alone at home and prefer doing things on my own schedule, but I am very active in my yacht club and an active member of the Singlehanded Sailing Society; I am on a water polo team and a search and recovery dive team (well, we do dive solo); I'm a member of my county's community task force dealing with sea level rise; I also like to race with crew especially in our "party circuits" over the weekends, and I get together a few times a month with friends; occasionally I date, but the guys usually turn out a little too needy so they are soon sent packing. I'm surprised to not have heard about the Bowling Alone book. That looks like an interesting read, but frankly, I'm a bit surprised by its premise. Through Facebook, sailing forums, email, etc., I maintain connections these days around the world that were just not possible only a decade ago. Also, I rarely see people doing things by themselves, especially women, so maybe it's not that we're no longer joiners, but that the majority of people are becoming more and more sequestered within their own little packs whenever they have any spare time at all.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

As I'm sure is obvious - I'm desperate to belong.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

gamayun said:


> My life experiences have always been outside the norm, whatever "normal" is.
> 
> I work alone at home and prefer doing things on my own schedule, but I am very active in my yacht club and an active member of the Singlehanded Sailing Society; I am on a water polo team and a search and recovery dive team (well, we do dive solo); I'm a member of my county's community task force dealing with sea level rise; I also like to race with crew especially in our "party circuits" over the weekends, and I get together a few times a month with friends; occasionally I date, but the guys usually turn out a little too needy so they are soon sent packing. I'm surprised to not have heard about the Bowling Alone book. That looks like an interesting read, but frankly, I'm a bit surprised by its premise. Through Facebook, sailing forums, email, etc., I maintain connections these days around the world that were just not possible only a decade ago. Also, I rarely see people doing things by themselves, especially women, so maybe it's not that we're no longer joiners, but that the majority of people are becoming more and more sequestered within their own little packs whenever they have any spare time at all.


 Bowling Alone is not that interesting.. well the facts are, but the reading is stat after stat.

I have worked in 'people' jobs most of my life. So when I get time off I am the opposite of you.. I don't want to go to any place I have to say hello.... (well not completely) and I sort of thing certain professions play on that. If you didn't work alone, maybe you wouldn't be as social, but I am sure you would still work for the various causes you believe in.

I think.. it take it you are implying.. that the word 'joiner' has taken on a different meaning. In the 50's if you wanted to talk about sailing, you had to join a sailing club.. there was no other forum. Much the same way if you wanted to play poker, you had co-workers over on Thursday night.. now you can get both from the internet.

I don't know about you but there are several internet people who are my friends.. perhaps more so than people I see in person...


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

Anybody can sail with me - as long as they have their own boat and are going someplace else!


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## oceanbrew (Nov 5, 2014)

My two cents....I'm a person who if not doing a sport isn't interested in watching it. I signed up for the forums because I needed information regarding sailing, etc., when I bought a boat. I've sold the boat, after a year, not that I wanted to. And, I backed off the forums. I'm back because I've got sailboat fever after crewing on a offshore one day trip, and I'm thinking of another sailboat. I might join a sailing club soon if I cannot get another boat. Of course the club has rental boats. 

With regards to 'Loner or Belonger'...I'm 39 and I've spent sixteen years living abroad, and people get together regularly in other places to hangout and converse. Here social media has completely engulfed our society. Upon returning to the U.S. I see that people are driven to feel like they're 'having a blast', or something is wrong. People don't tend to just hangout any more. At least not from what I've seen (I could be wrong). That being said, the only thing to do 99% of the time while sailing is to hangout. Another issue is time. It seems that people have too much on their plate, and can only dedicate an hour or two to any given activity. So going for a 4-5 hr sail or club meetings is out of the question! And, one person I know compares sailboats to desert islands. 

Another observation is it seems that we're tired of 'clubs' as these have hierarchical structures, which probably reminds people of work environments or high school. Clubs are like high school reunions. People are in contact with each other online constantly. So there's no need to catch up with anyone.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Unfortunately the stats are true. Across the board membership in formal social groups which are not virtual continues to decline. I look at this site nearly daily regardless of where I am. But it is a very different experience than hanging out at a yacht club, gun club, social club, civic group, or church. 
I have some involvement in civic organizations but now most things are done via the net. A Go to Meeting gathering is a different beast than collecting in a room. Don't like what someone is posting just ignore. Very different when that person is in front of you physically. 
Sailing is not virtual. In involves a great deal of delayed gratification. You need to put in time but have little control of how that time is spent. The joys and mishaps are in the real world and out of your control. Most of the skills cannot be effectively taught in a virtual world. Admittedly, the you tube video is usually running when I do most maintenance or repairs. However, this is a very different experience than having someone on your boat walking you through it. At some point the mastery is gained by an epiphany. Watch a new sailor work a boat to windward through a sea. Suddenly they anticipate the headers and lifts. They flow over the crests. They have a visceral understanding gained by being there. 
Look at your kids. They are as passionate as we are about their diversions. But they are not open ended or unknown. They much more defined. Through the smartphone they pick a time, activity, and locale. Be it kite boarding, rock climbing, biking- whatever. Keel boat cruising is viewed as too open ended. 
All those who are not liveaboards "go to the boat". Sometimes you sail. Sometimes you do maintenance. Sometimes you just hang out if it's blowing dogs off their chains. The yacht club was like that. Open ended and social if you wanted that. To my kids, at least, that has little appeal.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Yacht clubs in my neighborhood are primarily bars with a diminishing membership of people who don't own or even like boats. Not that I'm opposed to bars.

We tend to build our own, that is, we've got friends who like to sail, fish, or hang out together on boats. Personally, I enjoy building a crew that likes to sail or offshore fish together. Single handing is fun for the solitude, but for me I'd go nuts after a bit, maybe bring along a soccer ball and give it a name or something.......


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I belong to SSCA and OCC. I'm really not much of a people person but I get a lot out of SSCA and do enjoy OCC. 

The only other "belonging" I engage in is the American Society of Naval Engineers and the Cosmos Club of Washington DC (which has reciprocity with NYYC interestingly enough) and the ARRL. 

The nice thing about most activities associated with boating organizations is that when I've had enough of people I can go back to the boat.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I am introverted, but I recognize the decline of social capital in the U.S. and I've been forcing myself to get involved, in order to help preserve and improve the things I care about.

For example, I live in a neighborhood that owns a tiny beach and a pair of docks. Back in the 50's when the neighborhood was created, a "beach club" or civic association was created in order to administer and maintain that area. These days, no one wants to volunteer for the civic association duties or work to maintain the area. I volunteered for a spot on the board and was elected president. That was two years ago and I'm still doing it.
We organize the neighborhood Halloween party for children, the spring clean-up and BBQ, we ensure that the facilities are safe and well maintained.

At the same time, I've observed that small sailing clubs on the Chesapeake are aging out as Faster indicated. I don't want these clubs to die because they'll be bought by developers and converted into housing. This reduces public access to the water which places even more pressure on the sport of sailing.

I joined the West River Sailing Club. I was immediately contacted and asked to be on the board to represent the racer/cruisers. I did that for 2015 with good results and improvements. I was just promoted to "fleet captain" for 2016 and now I'm managing the whole racing scene for the club. I also volunteer my labor by helping renovate our aging docks, ramps and moorings.
I nag all of my friends and associates to come see what we offer and try to enlist them to join the club.

On top of all of this, I've organized nearly 80 solo and double-handed sailors into the Chesapeake Shorthanded Sailing Society or "CHESSS". 

Now this is a funny club- I've organized 80 introverted people who sail alone, into a social club. That's got to be a valid definition of irony. Anyway, CHESSS focuses on safe, effective sailing techniques for handling boats alone or as a couple, as well as racing. In 2015, we've significantly boosted racing participation at events that were dying, which helps keep them going.
There appears to be a slow shift from expensive, fully crewed racing to solos, and husband-wife teams and pairs of sailing buddies.

I've done all of this as a guy who usually dislikes spending time around people, especially large groups. I may be changing my feelings about socialization. I've found the work to be very rewarding and people have been vocal and appreciative of my efforts.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Down to one club now. Just OCC. Story much like what others have posted. Due to highly emotionally charged nature of work requiring knowing more about people then you wouldn't generally care to know sailing was a relief. Social interactions non confrontational or emotionally charged and pleasant before setting out. Often if not on call or have family demands would sail east for a day then west for a day by myself. Going nowhere but to recharge and get centered dowsing on and off in the cockpit Due to family didn't happen often enough but when it did it was magic. 
But the club was an instrument for good in the harbor limiting the shenanigans of the Harbor Master concerning moorings ( eventually he was fired). Kept the zoning board under some control. Involving kids who would otherwise have no involvement with the water sailing and given a lifelong appreciation of NE coastal heritage.
Worthwhile for me to put in the hours of physical labor maintaining the docks and buildings although I rarely did the social functions. A recent visit back to club is what got me thinking to start this thread. As the clubs die out or become just another venue to conduct business who will speak for the waterfront? Is life a bit less full as we bowl alone?
Folks go on this site for information. Yes there is a sense of community but all politics are local as Tip said. So with just virtual communities we may end up with virtual waterfronts.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I'm a member of the Mt. Sinai Sailing Association (MSSA) and the Mt. Sinai Yacht Club (MSYC). The MSSA is made up of about 100 family's who are into, like REALLY into, sailing. Dues is very cheap, under $100 for the year. The club owns no property (not allowed to, according to the bylaws) and puts on lots and lots of events. We do racing, cruising, cookouts, and that sort of stuff. I joined the club to meet sailors and to try out racing. For a small group, they do a great job and it's a lot of fun. I recently joined the MSYC to take advantage of cheap winter storage (very cheap to store in the water, reasonable for out of water storage too). The MSYC has a nice clubhouse with a great bar and good restaurant too. The MSYC is probably 60-70% power boaters. The sailors are more laid back, the MSYC doesn't to any real racing or cruising.

Barry


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

I belong to a yacht club that has over 600 members, It is racing oriented and yes we do sail on a smallish lake but, we are out sailing, constantly. The people are awesome as everyone wants everyone else to well and we all share our "fast". We have a sailing center next door that host most of the area high school sailing teams. They also have sailing classes for kids starting at age 5. We also do adaptive sailing programs for those that are either physically or mentally challenged. On any given Thursday evening during the season we have 120 boats in 9 different fleets sailing two separate courses. We also have a branch called Apostle Islands Station that has races up on Lake Superior's Apostle Islands. People own and sail boats in both locations. Of course we aren't a bunch of blue bloods and we don't sail in salt but, I doubt you will find a bunch that has more passion for the sport. We just celebrated out 50th anniversary and we are going strong, growing the sport. Anyone, no experience necessary can come sit at the crew table, for free, and get a ride on a sailboat during a race. I think we are doing it right.

Our 50th Anniversary video.

This is what we look like on Thursdays form the air...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Awesome. Good to hear


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

If the yacht clubs and sailing clubs today want to stay relevant, then I believe they need to be more inclusive and sail/race more. Though the bar often generates the best bang for the buck for the revenue stream, it seems the days are gone when people sat around, chatting and drinking (too much). That atmosphere of old geezers making stupid, drunk comments is not conducive to keeping kids/young adults interested, and if you're not introducing the next generation to fun, outdoorsy things, then you might as well sell the club to the highest bidding developer. The old business model/traditions/stuck in the rut ways need to be banished from people's mindset. Alas, humans hate change, but if they don't, then the world is going to pass them by as they age. No way am I ever going to sit in a old folks' home reminiscing about the good old days. Tonight I'll think about the good old time I had today. Change is good. Change is inevitable.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't think it's enough to point a finger at a club and say "you're not introducing the next generation to sailing" or "insert other criticism here".

If you think the club is dying but has good potential, then you should join, get involved and lead the change you wish to see.
I do understand that you could find yourself against a brick wall of tone-deaf old folks who don't care about growing the club or saving the club. It's a calculated risk but it's better than doing nothing. It's real easy to sit in the cheap seats and lob criticism and it's one reason why nothing ever changes.

I'm 43 and I am among the youngest (but not *the* youngest) at my club. I'm very fortunate in that the older members of the club have been pretty open-minded about change, and any ideas that I put forth. Usually, I'll have a small kernel of an idea and they'll help me flesh it out into something that is really good.
The established members realize that membership has been on the decline, and the "self preservation gene" is kicking in. This means that they are listening and working to turn things around.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

For clubs to stay relevant they need to drop the funny hats, the ridiculous costumes, the silly titles, and the word _yacht_ from their name. For many people, the term _yacht club_ conjures up images of an exclusive, pompous, annoying (and even sexist and racist) elite class of people. Most 20- and 30-somethings these days are about as opposite as you can get from the traditional _yacht club_ member.

I have non-sailing friends who would laugh their a$$ off if I said _Hey wanna come check out my Yacht Club?_ But, when I say, wanna come by my marina, go for a sail, have a few beers.... I always have takers.


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## SeaDubya (Sep 5, 2015)

The sailing club options I have are basically yachtie dinner clubs now. Their calendars are full of activities...on land. 

I don't want to barbecue. I can do that anywhere/anytime, even on my aft deck if I wish. I want to go sailing and hang out with sailors! People my age are not going to be enticed to join a supper/rotary/bridge club. Too many people with their umbilical cords attached to the dock waiting for the wind to be 5kn or less to head out. 

Pair up an old salt with a young punk like me in a 30 knot breeze with a few feet of water rising into our sights. THEN we're talking about a good time hanging out and I can hear a bunch of awesome "this one time" stories! Otherwise what's the point?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> On top of all of this, I've organized nearly 80 solo and double-handed sailors into the Chesapeake Shorthanded Sailing Society or "CHESSS".


I forgot about CHESSS. I'm a member of that, although I have yet to make a race or a meeting.

I have sailed with BubbleheadMD and would again.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

This thread at times weaves close to asking "what personality type is better?" Well, I've seen nutters and happy people in both camps. I've seen folks worry themselves over which type they should be and which type others should be. I friends of both types and good folks I can't be around (the latter are all one way or the other).

Strike enough balance for your own comfort. The healthiest people are both and are comfortably introspective regarding their choices. 

---

"Joining" can also be greatly affected by family involvement. If the family shares interests, that is a "group." If I were single again I would have more interest in joining.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I find the BC coast anchorages in winter have a good collection of floating communities, where we try to help one another out and celebrate each others victories . No need for anything as organized and controlling as a yacht club here. We have our own communities,and sense of community. Friends any where I go.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Brent-Have found the same pretty much everywhere I go. Most people, let alone sailors, are good folks.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

There are two themes here; sailing clubs and bowling alone. 

I live in a small town in NY and I belong to a few community organizations and sit on a board or two from time to time, including my waterfront park board which includes some dock master duties. That said, I always find myself chafing at the bit and wishing I was free during those meetings. 


But by and large I am a sociable loner. I need the freedom and flexibility of doing my own thing. As for sailing,or sailing clubs- same thing; I am sociable on the docks and stop in the marina office to chat and socialize and I will share a beer and some stories on a neighbor's boat..but I am really all about untying and going out, usually with my wife and/or grown up kids. I spent years waiting at the dock for my friends to show up, usually by 2 pm, and I had to move on from that and just go. I went through a similar thing with motorcycles, I would ride with friends or groups who could only get together after endless delays and then had drama and hardly went anywhere so I just quit the groups and ride alone, or with one or another good friend. 

If I had to analyze it, I'd say with work and house work and everything else I just don't feel like wasting my time waiting for some organized group. The tide is running and it doesn't care, the wind is fickle around here...... I try to monitor the wind and tides and weather...when conditions are right, man......I just go. And I do like the solitude or intimacy of just going with one or two people, the quiet moments tacking across the bay with nothing much to say, or hear. So, ultimately I guess I'm a loner.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Sal- think you (and me ) are much like many sailors. Surprising how many sailors also ride. Some similarities-
Even on a poker run or group ride "you ride your own ride".
Even when buddy boating or a group cruise its the same.
Even on passage you take turns single handing the boat. Calling someone up when there's a need to go forward.
There is no question cruising with just the bride is best.

Still, give money to AMA. Wish there was a similar organization with no profit motives solely dedicated to sailors at large. We are a small enough group that divisions by area or type of sailing defuses the impact such a group would have.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I prefer to sail alone. The captain never argues with the crew.

I belong to one yacht club, The Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

outbound said:


> Unfortunately the stats are true. Across the board membership in formal social groups which are not virtual continues to decline. I look at this site nearly daily regardless of where I am. But it is a very different experience than hanging out at a yacht club, gun club, social club, civic group, or church.
> I have some involvement in civic organizations but now most things are done via the net. A Go to Meeting gathering is a different beast than collecting in a room. Don't like what someone is posting just ignore. Very different when that person is in front of you physically.
> Sailing is not virtual. In involves a great deal of delayed gratification. You need to put in time but have little control of how that time is spent. The joys and mishaps are in the real world and out of your control. Most of the skills cannot be effectively taught in a virtual world. Admittedly, the you tube video is usually running when I do most maintenance or repairs. However, this is a very different experience than having someone on your boat walking you through it. At some point the mastery is gained by an epiphany. Watch a new sailor work a boat to windward through a sea. Suddenly they anticipate the headers and lifts. They flow over the crests. They have a visceral understanding gained by being there.
> Look at your kids. They are as passionate as we are about their diversions. But they are not open ended or unknown. They much more defined. Through the smartphone they pick a time, activity, and locale. Be it kite boarding, rock climbing, biking- whatever. Keel boat cruising is viewed as too open ended.
> All those who are not liveaboards "go to the boat". Sometimes you sail. Sometimes you do maintenance. Sometimes you just hang out if it's blowing dogs off their chains. The yacht club was like that. Open ended and social if you wanted that. To my kids, at least, that has little appeal.


I am not sure what the problem is, or why the demise of formal social groups is unfortunate. It is what it is...

I am currently a member of a sailing club. I have been a member of the board, and have organized several cruises. I have dropped out of the club once in the last 8 years, and I am not planning to re-up this coming year either. My decision is based on what I get out of the club.

Through the club I have met some people that I really like, and hope that our friendship is not dependent on maintaining my membership. There are also some members that I find, er, difficult...

I joined the club to learn, and to offer to share what I know with members. Several of the "difficult" members have a "my way or the highway" approach on their vessels (which I am OK with) and ashore (which I am not OK with), and aboard other people's boats (which could be grounds for shortening a planned voyage). Many of the members of the club are not physically capable of handling themselves on a vessel, yet they still insist that they are capable, and I find that they become a liability. There are also members that I simply find that I don't like to be around.

I spend the winter out of the state where the club is based, and therefore do not have the opportunity to participate in the winter "learning" sessions, where members would pick a topic, and share what they know. In place of this, I read the forums because I am continually learning. Furthermore, I believe that my desire to share what I have learned is better channeled through teaching sailing (which I do year-round), and through SailNet. In SailNet, I can simply place the members that I prefer not to hang around on my "ignore list."

I suspect that the club will do fine without me, and that my sailing season will be fine either with, or without, the club.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

eherlihy said:


> I am not sure what the problem is, or why the demise of formal social groups is unfortunate. It is what it is...
> 
> I am currently a member of a sailing club. I have been a member of the board, and have organized several cruises. I have dropped out of the club once in the last 8 years, and I am not planning to re-up this coming year either. My decision is based on what I get out of the club.
> 
> ...


That said.. I would bet the club at time laments the number of sailors in the area and the lack of club members...

I serve on various work related and community committees and there seems to be fewer and fewer helps all the time.. this wasn't true 50 years.. People back then felt a need for civic duty.

I am sure it isn't that simple.. Like of both the wife and husband work (if together).. maybe they are divorce and don't have time... They feel playing on the internet is better.. who knows


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Loner

...and, why are you bothering me with this?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

titustiger27 said:


> That said.. I would bet the club at time laments the number of sailors in the area and the lack of club members...
> 
> I serve on various work related and community committees and there seems to be fewer and fewer helps all the time.. this wasn't true 50 years.. People back then felt a need for civic duty.
> 
> I am sure it isn't that simple.. Like of both the wife and husband work (if together).. maybe they are divorce and don't have time... They feel playing on the internet is better.. who knows


When I was on the board, I suggested that the club needed to define promote an actionable value proposition... That is, the club had to come up with a clear and concise reason for the club to exist, to rationalize why people (and in particular boat owners) should want to belong to the club, and to organize events in support of this reason.

Community committees exist for a reason; to clean up the park, to improve the schools. Once everyone is working toward a common goal you find that people of like minds who are working together will socialize.

Many people join yacht clubs only because they want cheaper moorings or slips than would be available at a marina. Over time, they usually become more involved with the club for other activities. However, I believe that if the discounted moorings or slips were taken away, membership would plummet, and many of these clubs would cease to exist.

The OP and I have kept our boats at the same marina (different docks) for at least the last 3 years, yet we've never actually met, other than through SailNet. I don't feel this is a problem; the opportunity just hasn't presented itself.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

eherlihy said:


> When I was on the board, I suggested that the club needed to define promote an actionable value proposition... That is, the club had to come up with a clear and concise reason for the club to exist, to rationalize why people (and in particular boat owners) should want to belong to the club, and to organize events in support of this reason.


I agree with this 100 percent. Many many times I have been in groups that wanted more volunteers... I have presented this in a different form.

In another life I worked for a chamber of commerce. We have a volunteer list of about 200 names, yet only had about 12 volunteers who would show up. I new many of the non participants why.. and there were two reasons...which were really kind of the same.

1) 'you didn't ask.'

2) "Last time I volunteered to be a course marshal and you had me do timing.. I hate the pressure of timing"

In other words we did a bad job of nurturing these volunteers.. but also they didn't have a clear and concise reason to help out.



eherlihy said:


> Community committees exist for a reason; to clean up the park, to improve the schools. Once everyone is working toward a common goal you find that people of like minds who are working together will socialize.


To me this is like the school performance.

Holiday concerts are typically lame and well attended

Performances with adults are often much better and not well attended..

Which comes down to not a common goal, but 'what is in it for me'



eherlihy said:


> Many people join yacht clubs only because they want cheaper moorings or slips than would be available at a marina. Over time, they usually become more involved with the club for other activities. However, I believe that if the discounted moorings or slips were taken away, membership would plummet, and many of these clubs would cease to exist.
> 
> The OP and I have kept our boats at the same marina (different docks) for at least the last 3 years, yet we've never actually met, other than through SailNet. I don't feel this is a problem; the opportunity just hasn't presented itself.


I've seen this in New York State.. where if you join a snowmobile club your registration is cheaper. The end you have clubs with lots of members.. and very low participation.. so much so that the town created a snowmobile event to attract people to the area.

The snowmobile club probably has 100 members, but it is impossible to get anyone to come and help out... But if you talk to the members... it is no less difficult than trying to get members to come to club functions.

In the end what I fear is we have become an iGeneration. It's a little 'i' with a big focus on self.


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## Northeric (May 1, 2014)

Loner, I'd never wanna be a member of any yacht club that would have me as a member.


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## bird song (Sep 26, 2015)

Loner


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Neither. Get plenty of socialization at work. Want my off time to be 'my' time. Spend it with those I choose to spend it with and how I want to do it. In the winter it's usually either family time or on skis (either with a friend, family or alone) or skates (although this has been harder to get to with a growing family). In the summer it's either on the water or somewhere else outside unless some other obligation gets in the way. I find that 'clubs' (sail, ski, social, etc.) tend to be ways to separate me from money that I could otherwise usually do for free somewhere else with similar amounts (or more) of enjoyment. I pay my dues to several professional organizations more for the 'expected' optics (extra letters behind my name) than any equivocal good they may do by lobbying with that money. That being said, I have spent copious time volunteering for what I consider good causes as well as lobbing money into them, and will probably be a charter member of a new sailing club that is starting up in our harbor in an attempt to support it and the local benefits it can bring. But I'm not my grandfather (who had 15 different places he 'belonged'- all with cheap booze), nor my father (who belonged to almost nothing unless it was for the benefit of his kids or was his 'night out' like softball or bowling league). I think, overall, that there are fewer 9-5 jobs that pay well and don't spill over, so there is less time to fill with these things. I know that my days are certainly longer with less free time than that and were this way even before I left the typical 'private sector' and went into medicine.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

outbound said:


> Faster there was a book using the decline of bowling leagues as an example of the decline of true in person social organizations and groups.
> Similarly the decline of deep religious sentiments in our holidays was what was being alluded to in the signature.
> 
> Wonder if forums now are trying to serve the social network function yacht clubs used to do.
> ...


Hold on they wife swap? I was never interested in a yacht club, but I am now!

Actually around me they all seem to go a long way to emphasize that they are "working clubs" and one goes so far as to refuse the term yacht and uses boat club. A few have fairly high fees to join, while others are quite low My biggest issue is I don't think I am going to be in the area too long, so I am not sure the "investment" (both financially and emotionally) is worth it. They do seem like a good way to meet like minded folks though.


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## ajoliver (Feb 23, 2007)

Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone" is an important book and a good read. It explains the social atomization that is now pervasive. 
I really value the 30 years I have put into our local sailing club - met some wonderful people, and had some adventures. 
I agree with those who say that, since the sport has been good to us, we have a duty to promote and share it with others. 
Our Club is pretty good at that, but we could do better. 
Another project . .


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

seaner97 said:


> Neither. *Get plenty of socialization at work. Want my off time to be 'my' time. * Spend it with those I choose to spend it with and how I want to do it. In the winter it's usually either family time or on skis (either with a friend, family or alone) or skates (although this has been harder to get to with a growing family). In the summer it's either on the water or somewhere else outside unless some other obligation gets in the way. I find that 'clubs' (sail, ski, social, etc.) tend to be ways to separate me from money that I could otherwise usually do for free somewhere else with similar amounts (or more) of enjoyment.
> 
> ** snip }


This pretty much fits me.. in fact the thing I like least about sailing is launching my boat, where I might have to talk to someone. Of course on any given day at the boat launches I go to there are 4 motor boaters and me...

:captain:


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

As Groucho said. "I wouldn't join any club which would have me".

Loner


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Perhaps the future is cruising clubs and cockpit get togethers.

I fly the OCC and SDR burgees. Whenever a fellow member dinghies by they are invited for a drink and snack and it seems always recipicated. 
Still struck by SSb or VHF nets. How friendly and helpful they are. Was particularly struck how the daily chat in Georgetown was to the common good. 
Think most sailors get high on the oneness that comes at sea when on deck alone and the sails set just right with a bone in the teeth of the bow.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

outbound said:


> Perhaps the future is cruising clubs and cockpit get togethers.
> 
> I fly the OCC and SDR burgees. Whenever a fellow member dinghies by they are invited for a drink and snack and it seems always recipicated.
> Still struck by SSb or VHF nets. How friendly and helpful they are. Was particularly struck how the daily chat in Georgetown was to the common good.
> Think most sailors get high on the oneness that comes at sea when on deck alone and the sails set just right with a bone in the teeth of the bow.


True long term cruisers may also be different in that when you're relatively isolated most of the time, you may crave more companionship than when you're inundated by it on land and seek the sea to avoid it for awhile. There are probably also those that are truly just antisocial. Those of us that go out to get away when we have time off are probably a different subset of sailor. I sail, partly, for similar reasons to why I kayak or backpack or snowshoe or ski.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Sean. Never thought about it that way. Merit in your comment.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Aristotle said there are three kinds of people.
1
Those who simply do what every one else is doing, no questions asked. They have lots of friends, because there are so many like them.
2
Those who question things, but who also do what everyone else does, because they don't want to stand out , and possibly be alone. They tend to have fewer friends, but less shallow friends.
3
Those who question everything, and make their own decisions, evidence based, regardless of what the crowd does. They are often alone, because those who think for themselves are so rare. They are responsible for most of the progress since the stone age. They value truth over simply blending in. 

I find that there is a great liveaboard cruising community here, who often come aboard to swap ideas and info on liveaboard problems and solutions. We drink hot coco, and swap ideas, late into the night. Great community to be part of, and contribute to..


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## H and E (Sep 11, 2011)

Lots of different folks here. I belong to one yacht club that is dying. I do not keep my boat there and a lot of the boats there are non use boats. I stay because I enjoy the active members that sail/race. I sail with a group on another lake, where I keep my boat, that is the remains of a non active yacht club. We race on weekends and sail every Wednesday evening just for fun. When I was an active pilot I belonged to a couple of groups, mostly because of the air show activities. However, when Motorcycling I found that I did not like group rides and ride alone to this day. I also sail solo quite a bit. I guess I like both areas at different times, depending on how I feel at the time. When I join a group I tend to become very active with them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

No true loner would join a forum to interact, let alone answer this question.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I guess we belong to the loner group. We've sailed the east coast of the US and continue to explore the NE coast. Those miles were covered as a family of four over 3 decades.

In looking back on those memorable sails that were mostly seasonal, we didn't have time for clubs. Keeping a boat sailing(and working full time), raising a family, making the large blocks of time available to spend together sailing, took effort.

We have a lovely unpretentious 'Boat Club' in our harbor(base of the white spar/flag pole). We're often tempted to join it - and the members, many of which are friends. Like other local clubs, they're invested in children's sailing programs-an immensely valuable community service(our kids sailed in these programs).

For many seasons, we've waved at the members sharing drinks, barbecue's and good times, as we left the docks for a weekend or weeks - or returned from the same to unload a family or four and their 'stuff'.

Likely we will join it, 'one day', we keep telling ourselves, when we have more time. I'd like to see it stay active.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

caberg said:


> For clubs to stay relevant they need to drop the funny hats, the ridiculous costumes, the silly titles, and the word _yacht_ from their name. For many people, the term _yacht club_ conjures up images of an exclusive, pompous, annoying (and even sexist and racist) elite class of people. Most 20- and 30-somethings these days are about as opposite as you can get from the traditional _yacht club_ member.
> 
> I have non-sailing friends who would laugh their a$$ off if I said _Hey wanna come check out my Yacht Club?_ But, when I say, wanna come by my marina, go for a sail, have a few beers.... I always have takers.


I've been trying to craft a polite and reasoned response to this, but I suspect anything I say will fall on deaf ears. I'll make a half-hearted attempt anyway:

"Sailing" is very old. "Yachting" or sailing for recreation is actually a much younger activity, having its roots in working vessels racing each other on rare holidays. When recreational sailing and racing established itself as a regular sport or activity, it was mostly the wealthy that did it. Regular folks didn't take it up as a pastime until the explosion of the middle class and the availability of affordable, fiberglass boats.

Still, yacht clubs have a bit of history and tradition. Many of those traditions are linked to mariner's traditions and some are linked to national naval traditions. Sexism and racism is bad, but most of these traditions aren't racist or sexist. Now we have an opportunity to include other races and genders in observing these long standing traditions.

The term "yacht" does carry a major negative connotation in the U.S. but not elsewhere. It's simply a term for a recreational boat, even very small boats.

I'm guessing that you've never really been to a club as a guest or member. Even the most uptight clubs don't wear blazers and admiral's caps on a daily basis. Usually it's just the board members, and they wear them twice per year for the bi-annual meetings.
The rest of the time, people wear the same casual clothes as anyone else who goes sailing.

AYC, which is 130 years old had 3 decks before it burned. The top deck was the most formal, requiring a jacket for dinner. The second deck was more casual and the third deck was pretty much the "tiki bar". You could be as uptight or as casual as you like.

No, I don't ask people if they'd like to visit my "yacht club". I just call it the "club" and I sell it to them based on the cool fleet of shared boats that we have, the good racing, the low cost, and the great people that we have. Our beach cat, Flying Scot and Albacore sailors are highly skilled and fun as hell to be around.
We're not an elitist bunch of a$$holes laughing and rubbing hundred dollar bills all over ourselves while our trophy wives look on. (I borrowed that line from someone else, it was too funny not to)

Yeah, I wear a jacket and tie twice per year- once at Flag Raising Day, which is a party where we kick off the new season and once at the annual meeting where the board gives an account of itself to the members. I view the jacket and tie as an expression that I take my responsibility to you the member, seriously. I want to spend your annual dues in a responsible way and provide the best organized, most fun racing and sailing possible. It's also a link to some past traditions that weren't necessarily bad. Sorry if that makes me an elitist a$$hole that doesn't know how to have fun.

I'm familiar with the grumpy old white people that you are stereotyping, and guess what? They're aging out. Instead of letting clubs die out of spite, maybe it's time for younger people to step in and run them. Here's another "guess what?" for you- It *is* possible to have a fun, cool club that still honors some past traditions. "Fun" isn't necessarily contradictory to putting on a set of clean, unstained clothes, and shoes that aren't flip-flops once a year.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Tom
Beautiful picture. Especially like four wood and just two glass in the foreground.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

TomMaine said:


> I guess we belong to the loner group. We've sailed the east coast of the US and continue to explore the NE coast. Those miles were covered as a family of four over 3 decades.
> 
> In looking back on those memorable sails that were mostly seasonal, we didn't have time for clubs. Keeping a boat sailing(and working full time), raising a family, making the large blocks of time available to spend together sailing, took effort.
> 
> ...


Tom,

Your sailing venue is so gorgeous. It's a shame your season is so short. It is my keenest ambition to sail to Maine in the near future.

Your story reminds me of this guy:


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The only people that don't like yacht clubs are the same people that would have never liked them in any generation. No problem. Whether our kids generation has the disposable income to spend on them is a different question. The average smart phone family plan and cable bill is higher than most yacht club dues. This generation chooses to spend money elsewhere, not necessarily rejecting clubs as undesirable. 

However, all yacht clubs are different, having different personalities, different amenities, different activities. Some are simply social, some focus on racing, some are no more than a co-op marina. No way to cast a brush across them all. 

As for them dying out. I seriously doubt it. Relatively speaking, there aren't that many anyway. I supposed the weaker of the species many not make it, that's nothing new either. When I was at AYC a couple of months back, it was packed wall to wall. I think they'll do just fine (as they rebuild).


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Minnew-

You're right, clubs won't die completely. The weaker, less exclusive, less expensive ones will die and the expensive, exclusive ones will remain.
The land from the dead clubs will be bought by developers and the public will lose even more access to the water. Recreational water activities will slowly become the domain of only the wealthy.

You're also right in that (right now) clubs run the gamut from paper clubs, to casual sailing clubs, to exclusive yacht clubs, to co-op marinas. That's good, but these less exclusive clubs need to thrive and survive if middle class folks are going to have any access to the water. Yes, I understand that these aren't "public" clubs in the sense that they aren't free to all, and paid for by taxes. They are still private clubs but like you said, their annual dues are the cost of a smartphone plan and within the reach of most folks. My county in Maryland, has the most coastline of any Maryland county and the least amount of public water access. It's a freaking tragedy.

I really do laugh at some of my middle class, dirt-bound acquaintances who sneer at sailing as the purview of the wealthy yet many of these people thought nothing of dropping $16,000 on a new, Harley-Davidson Wide Glide, and promptly ripping off the perfectly good chrome bits and spending a few thousand more "customizing" a brand new bike. I can't afford to do that. 

My boat cost $4k, my slip is $500/year, and my club membership is $600/year. The club is optional, and could be discarded as an expense.
It would take me 10 *years* in ownership and membership costs to rack up an equivalent expenditure.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Tom,
> 
> _Your sailing venue is so gorgeous. It's a shame your season is so short. It is my keenest ambition to sail to Maine in the near future.
> 
> ...


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

caberg said:


> For clubs to stay relevant they need to drop the funny hats, the ridiculous costumes, the silly titles, and the word _yacht_ from their name. For many people, the term _yacht club_ conjures up images of an exclusive, pompous, annoying (and even sexist and racist) elite class of people. Most 20- and 30-somethings these days are about as opposite as you can get from the traditional _yacht club_ member.
> 
> I have non-sailing friends who would laugh their a$$ off if I said _Hey wanna come check out my Yacht Club?_ But, when I say, wanna come by my marina, go for a sail, have a few beers.... I always have takers.


Rich was polite and reasonable. I will be clear.

The belief that everyone should feel the same you that you do is bigotry.


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## DHusk (Sep 17, 2013)

I guess I'm a loner, though I prefer independent. I have served on the local school board, when my kids were in school. Belonged to AOPA, when I was an active pilot. And, I joined SailNet when I got interested in sailing. In other words, I join groups which serve my self-interest. I've learned a lot following the threads on this forum.

On the other hand, I avoid most organized groups. Most of my family are Masons. I respect the group, been to a number of installations when I was a kid and my father was going through the various offices. All the rituals were a bit much for me. Didn't last long in Boy Scouts, either. 

I'm not antisocial. I always enjoyed the informal hanger gatherings at the airport. I've spent many ours talking to sailors at marinas. Have a great time with my family, including the in-laws. I suppose if my wife and I manage to get out on the water, we will enjoy sitting in a protected bay with other cruisers, enjoying a sundowner. But I never expect to join a yacht club.

I'm just not a joiner.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I like the term "independent".


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Brent Swain said:


> Aristotle said there are three kinds of people.
> 1
> Those who simply do what every one else is doing, no questions asked. They have lots of friends, because there are so many like them.
> 2
> ...


I like Aristotle (and Plato), but some things have progressed in the subsequent 2500 years. The personality assessments that put letters on your personality type are far more accurate and granular than this, and remove the value statements that were made by Aristotle- probably because he was justifying why he had no friends, not necessarily because he was accurate.


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## XSrcing (Aug 22, 2015)

I spend 12 hours, 5 days a week dealing with the general public, and mostly only when they are having problems with their vehicles. So I deal with a lot of unhappy people who think I'm there to rob them. Kind of jades my view of people. I generally don't like them.

Being said I have a small group of very close friends, most of which either live or work on boats. Through them I have met several people in the local yacht club and I've found it really isn't as pretentious as people make it out to be and I, at 32, will be no where close to the youngest member (of those who joined, not who's parents joined). I fully plan on joining and getting involved. It looks like a lot of fun for my family.

It's also right next door to my favorite bar.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

SVAuspicious said:


> Rich was polite and reasonable. I will be clear.
> 
> The belief that everyone should feel the same you that you do is bigotry.


I'm not sure who Rich is, and I am pretty sure that I was just called a bigot for my personal assessment of Yacht Clubs in the modern day. Interesting.

Anyway, I don't care if people feel the same as me. I'm only sharing my own observations based on my peer group of late 20s and 30-somethings. And, yes, I have visited many different clubs, raced from clubs, had bbqs at clubs, helped friends launch at clubs. I've never been a member, and don't care to be, but I have nothing against the many good, decent folks who are members at clubs. However, you are wearing blinders if you fail to see that "Yacht Clubs" are viewed in a negative light by a whole lot of younger people these days -- maybe entirely without merit, but it is what it is.

Heck, you don't have to look too far to find satirical references to the uppity elitist Yacht Club member.



Right or wrong, is not really the point. It's the image of the Yacht Club that needs to change in order to attract the next generation.

Take a look at various Yacht Club websites from all over the country, and you'll see that many are stuck in a past that appeals to today's younger generation about as much as Bushwood Country Club.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

For you folks who deal with customer service, or deal with people all day, I totally understand your desire for "alone time".


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

caberg said:


> For clubs to stay relevant they need to drop the funny hats, the ridiculous costumes, the silly titles, and the word _yacht_ from their name. For many people, the term _yacht club_ conjures up images of an exclusive, pompous, annoying (and even sexist and racist) elite class of people. Most 20- and 30-somethings these days are about as opposite as you can get from the traditional _yacht club_ member.
> 
> I have non-sailing friends who would laugh their a$$ off if I said _Hey wanna come check out my Yacht Club?_ But, when I say, wanna come by my marina, go for a sail, have a few beers.... I always have takers.


Guess you didn't read my post earlier in this thread..... couldn't be farther from the truth...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

20 somethings and 30 somethings didn't join yacht clubs, when I was that age either. That doesn't mean that the current batch won't, as they too get more settled financially. I'm not buying that this entire generation thinks of them as uppity, any more than hippies may have in the 60s.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I really like sailing with others, but I also enjoy being by myself a lot.

Because of this, I stick to being single, with occasional sailing trips with good friends.

I'd like to join a local yacht club but the dues are out of my price range, esp as I just hit the 'over 30' bracket


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

alctel said:


> I really like sailing with others, but I also enjoy being by myself a lot.
> 
> Because of this, I stick to being single, with occasional sailing trips with good friends.
> 
> I'd like to join a local yacht club but the dues are out of my price range, esp as I just hit the 'over 30' bracket


I never joined any when I was young and now I'm not young they all want a lot more to join because Im older. Why do they charge so much more if you are over 40. obviously they don't want me to join


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

That's a new one on me. My club has a demarcation of 18 years old, but not 30 or 40.

If these clubs are struggling with membership, they really need to revisit those policies.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The financial reality of club membership, compared to past generations, is an issue. 

The cost of autos and housing has far outpaced wages. That's not entirely due to inflation, it's because houses are bigger, with central air, and cars are fancier, with electric everything and leather seats. Combine that with smartphone plans, cable TV bills and XM radio subscriptions, that past generations didn't pay at all, and these next generations will take longer to find they have excess disposable income. Worse, if they put their kids through college.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> The financial reality of club membership, compared to past generations, is an issue.
> 
> The cost of autos and housing has far outpaced wages. That's not entirely due to inflation, it's because houses are bigger, with central air, and cars are fancier, with electric everything and leather seats. Combine that with smartphone plans, cable TV bills and XM radio subscriptions, that past generations didn't pay at all, and these next generations will take longer to find they have excess disposable income. Worse, if they put their kids through college.


All true, but assuming we're discussing why people with boats don't join yacht clubs as much anymore, I can't see that cost is the issue. At least around here (Conn.), yacht clubs are way less expensive than marinas. However, they often require the members to pitch in and work (launching/hauling boats, landscaping, etc.); and they seem to have a somewhat "mandatory" social aspect to them too (participation in monthly dinners, the yearly cruise). Seems to me that the time commitment may be standing in the way as much as anything.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Time is a good point too. However, I don't see everyone that owns a boat as having unlimited resources. Club membership is still an optional expenditure and you need the surplus for it.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

My club is "DIY". I didn't have time until my kids grew up. Now I do, so here I am.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

If you actually do want to bowl at your YC and you live near Boston then the Cottage Park Yacht Club in Winthrop is for you.

CPYC has 4 authentic candlepin bowling lanes. Now I know that some will say that is not real bowling but it is a NE thing.

Cottage Park Yacht Club - Landing Page


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## amateursailor (Dec 30, 2015)

We love to sail with others and also by ourselves. Its nice for a change once in a while.


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## amateursailor (Dec 30, 2015)

Its nice for both.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> Time is a good point too. However, I don't see everyone that owns a boat as having unlimited resources. Club membership is still an optional expenditure and you need the surplus for it.


Money is of course a limited resource. My point was not that people have unlimited funds available for boating; just that yacht clubs (at least around here) are cheaper than marinas, and if money were the deciding factor, yacht clubs should be more popular. I doubt the reasons for declining membership are simple or even consistent across the different regions of the USA; I'm just thinking that cost isn't the driving factor (again, at least here).

I'd love to be a member of the Branford Yacht Club; it's got a great location with easy access to Long Island Sound, and the facilities look great. But it's not easy to join; you need to be sponsored by a current member (and I don't really know anyone there anymore). And on top of that, dock space is at a premium. New members have to be moored for a minimum number of years before they become eligible for a slip. And I need a slip; as accommodating as the Admiral is, I don't think she'd want to go out on the boat as much if we had to row there. There are other clubs nearby, where it would be relatively easy to join, but they have drawbacks (no slips, no clubhouse, less desireable location, etc.); on top of that, we just spent our first summer at a full service Brewer's marina. About 50% more expensive than our previous barebones place, but really nice: pool, bar/restaurant, picnic tables, grills, attentive staff, chandlery, maintenance services. I think it will take a lot to move us from there.

Anyway, happy new year to all!


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## Sea&Stars (Jul 22, 2015)

:chaser
I managed to find a sailing club in the middle of Kentucky, USA. Cave Run Sailing Association - Home 
It's a rather robust organization that I found invaluable in learning how to sail. Although I'm in the refit mode with my boat, I've had plenty of opportunities to get on the water with others who are eager to take a novice under their wing. Don't know if that would be so easy to do without others who channeled their passion to form a club. My hats off to the Commodores and others who are able to make sailing clubs a reality.

:svoilier:


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Sea&Stars said:


> :chaser
> I managed to find a sailing club in the middle of Kentucky, USA. Cave Run Sailing Association - Home
> It's a rather robust organization that I found invaluable in learning how to sail. Although I'm in the refit mode with my boat, I've had plenty of opportunities to get on the water with others who are eager to take a novice under their wing. Don't know if that would be so easy to do without others who channeled their passion to form a club. My hats off to the Commodores and others who are able to make sailing clubs a reality.
> 
> :svoilier:


the fact that 'Cave' was in the name.. I thought it was one of those joke sites

There used to be a fake marina on Lake Superior that let people join for $10, so you could get a free slip (honored by other marinas)

That said, nice that people helped you out


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## Lockjaw (Sep 21, 2016)

*Attracting new members: how not to do it*



gamayun said:


> If the yacht clubs and sailing clubs today want to stay relevant, then I believe they need to be more inclusive and sail/race more. Though the bar often generates the best bang for the buck for the revenue stream, it seems the days are gone when people sat around, chatting and drinking (too much).


Here is an example of the snobby, exclusive attitude that gamayun and many other people find objectionable.

The club's policy statement starts off well ("We are delighted to welcome new members&#8230;. It is a strongly held belief here that New Members bring new ideas, new skills and new contacts on both the sailing and social sides. This Club is all about progress and improving on a successful past"), but the truth soon emerges.


> You may have heard that the Club is exclusive, and to a degree it is in that anyone joining needs to be recommended on a personal basis by current members. However, the Club's friendly atmosphere is created by this six-degrees of separation, in that every new member proposed by another member is then introduced to their friends and fellow members at the Club. New members are encouraged to have an interest in the sea and nautical affairs, but there is no obligation to be a sailor.


In other words, it's all about 'who you know' rather than 'what you know' (or do). Sad.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

*Re: Attracting new members: how not to do it*



Lockjaw said:


> Here is an example of the snobby, exclusive attitude that gamayun and many other people find objectionable.
> 
> The club's policy statement starts off well ("We are delighted to welcome new members&#8230;. It is a strongly held belief here that New Members bring new ideas, new skills and new contacts on both the sailing and social sides. This Club is all about progress and improving on a successful past"), but the truth soon emerges.In other words, it's all about 'who you know' rather than 'what you know' (or do). Sad.


Many clubs have a similar written policy. If that puts you off then don't join.

However, I think you missed this part, "Should lack of personal contact with our 
membership be an obstacle, and you are thinking about becoming a member, the secretariat and Membership Committee will do all they can to facilitate the joining process".

I once joined a YC exactly that way without knowing anyone. It worked out fine.

To each his own.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've come and gone from quite a few clubs over the years, from yacht to golf to country to sportsman. Loved some, hated others. I am currently a social member at a country club and full member of a sportsmens club. 

All had the above policy of needing a sponsor. I've joined some, without knowing anyone, even though it was a requirement. Let's face it, they are really saying they want to know if you'll fit in. Just give the president, commodore or who ever a call. If they don't think you will, why would you want to hang there anyway. I hated some, even after they determined I was a good fit and I joined. Common interest in activity was really the filter, not wealth or snot factor. For example, if the country club is overly focused on golf and you prefer the pool and tennis, you may not chemic well. There are social yacht clubs and racing yacht clubs. Which are you? That's really the filter.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Private clubs (yachtie or otherwise) are just that, but they run the gamut from "anyone is welcome" (which is what Island Yacht Club and Half Moon Bay Yacht Club are like here in the San Francisco Bay area) to "you need a lot of money and come highly recommended from another rich member." I think we can all provide examples of the latter. There's a club for anyone really, but not everyone is going to fit in at every club. You just have to do your due diligence and try them out, if they allow that. Most clubs need new members and will figure out a way to bring you in, especially if you make some initial effort or have a talent/skill that would be particularly helpful to them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

gamayun said:


> .......... "you need a lot of money and come highly recommended from another rich member.".


That can be true, but still you don't really need to know a current member, if you contact leadership. Resources should an issue for both the club and the prospect. I know a golf club that wanted new greens installed and voted to assess every member $20,000 to do it. No payment schedule, no option. Naturally, they only want members who can do that, without batting an eye. As a member, you sure wouldn't want to be there, if you couldn't.

Ironically, many of the most exclusive clubs have some of the lowest dues. That's often because they don't have to borrow money, they just assess the membership for everything they need. Devoted members themselves often donate to help their clubs, like when JP Morgan donated the property in NYC for the NY Yacht Club. A member who didn't have those kind of resources could quickly find they have a hard time playing along with their new friends. Imagine being at the bar, with your new friends. Everyone is sauced up a bit, had a great day and someone says.... hey, let's all go to Greece this weekend and charter this nice 250ft yacht palace I know. Who's Gulfstream should we take over?


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## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

My philosophy, after many years trying to be a "joiner" when I am not suited for it, it to follow Groucho Marx and Ernest Gann.
Groucho:" I don't want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member"
Ernie:' I want a boat that drinks six, eats four, sleeps two." 
And while I don't necessarily think Sartre was right, he was not necessarily wrong.
Jean-Paul:"Hell is other people."
Of course he said it in French, which leads to the Grey Poupon question from that other thread


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I've been both a member and employee at a bunch of different clubs, both sailing and shooting being the types I have been involved with. I find they vary immensely from one to the next. I have come to the conclusion that traditional Yacht Clubs aren't really my thing.

I've recently discovered a new type of club called a "Messabout". These social organisations aren't really yacht clubs, because they have no dues or real estate, but are collections of folks who are mostly interested in small boat sailing and design. They load their boats onto trailers, or the tops of their cars, or somehow reach a common destination; picnic, cruise, exchange ideas, sometimes it's a pub night. Pretty cool. Weird thing is, the ones I'm familiar with can be tough to find as they have no property, no marketing, no outward facing internet presence. The only way to join, is to meet a member, usually out on the water (or more likely at a dock) get chatting about boats, and if the guy thinks you or your ideas are cool, he says, "you should join us on our next messabout". Boom, club joined.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Arcb said:


> I've been both a member and employee at a bunch of different clubs, both sailing and shooting being the types I have been involved with. I find they vary immensely from one to the next. I have come to the conclusion that traditional Yacht Clubs aren't really my thing.
> 
> I've recently discovered a new type of club called a "Messabout". These social organisations aren't really yacht clubs, because they have no dues or real estate, but are collections of folks who are mostly interested in small boat sailing and design. They load their boats onto trailers, or the tops of their cars, or somehow reach a common destination; picnic, cruise, exchange ideas, sometimes it's a pub night. Pretty cool. Weird thing is, the ones I'm familiar with can be tough to find as they have no property, no marketing, no outward facing internet presence. The only way to join, is to meet a member, usually out on the water (or more likely at a dock) get chatting about boats, and if the guy thinks you or your ideas are cool, he says, "you should join us on our next messabout". Boom, club joined.


That sounds pretty neat. Small boat, "paper" club. Ok, you say they have no outward facing web presence, so no website. Do they use Meetup or Facebook, or nothing at all? If it's truly a case of you have to stumble upon a member in real life, it almost sounds like the Free Masons. lol.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I guess they do have a web site but I don't know how you'd find out about it if you didn't meet a member. They don't need to generate revenue because there are no facilities to maintain, nor are they profit driven, so they aren't really looking for members like other clubs. When I first discovered one, a member literally handed me a business card with a couple of internet links on it and his personal email address and phone number. It was a pretty big thing too, maybe 100 or more boats.

And yes, pretty cool, mostly small to very small boats, but some pretty knowledgeable sailors (some power boaters and paddlers/rowers as well)


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> Imagine being at the bar, with your new friends. Everyone is sauced up a bit, had a great day and someone says.... hey, let's all go to Greece this weekend and charter this nice 250ft yacht palace I know. Who's Gulfstream should we take over?


I HATE when that happens.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

For awhile lived in an affluent town ( duxbury ma). Due to cost went halfies on a boat with a member of that town's yacht club. I was member of another's town yacht club which instead of using the club to make deals, run local politics, wife swap, play golf ( yes the yacht club owned a golf course) and network was just into sailing. That town was plymouth and that club produced several Olympic medalists. Unlike duxbury with its requirements of two sponsors and holding a party at your house before being deemed acceptable plymouth was just interested in what boat I had, what kind of sailing I did and if I could help out on the waterfront and the kids sailing program. 
Several times my boat partner and I would sail into a harbor and appeal for a curtesy mooring from another towns club. There was an occasion we flew the duxbury burgee and we were refused but if we flew the plymouth burgee there was never an issue.
Think there is push back to the snotty clubs. You need know why you're joining a club. Not infrequently with the yacht clubs in my area it has nothing to do with sailing.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Old thread and I didn't read it all so in case this isn't already posted, good news for those near Boston. Cottage Park Yacht Club in Winthrop actually has bowling lanes!

You don't see that every day.


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## Knot Again (Apr 26, 2016)

It was a rather interesting 9 pages!


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

I was in Tampa this weekend and had 4 hours to burn between the time we got back into town and the time we needed to be at the airport. We drove along the Tampa side of the bay and spotted what appeared to be a real nice restaurant on the bay. We wound around the road to get there only to find it was the Tampa Yacht Club for "Members Only" according to the sign. However, it was a beautiful day (high 80's) and we found a great restaurant (Hatricks) and really enjoyed the water and the boats. Appreciate what you can and ignore the morons.....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> .....Appreciate what you can and ignore the morons.....


Not sure who you are referring to as a moron in your story? The Yacht Club members who funded a private restaurant? I don't see that as any different than not being able to walk into any private water front home and have cocktails on their deck. The YC was just paid for by a couple hundred individuals. They may actually be morons, but I didn't catch why in your post.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

Minne: I was referring to the post #89 comments but you can apply that shoe to wherever it fits.Why does it seem that you are either very defensive or easily offended?

The location and view from the second floor of the Tampa Yacht Club would be incredible. If anything, I was jealous.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Before anyone labels all YCs with the same brush, knock on their door next time before you make grand judgements against them and ask if they will allow you to look around as a guest/prospective member. Just sayin' that not all YCs treat visiting sailors the same...of course, the receptivity of the hosts may depend on the attitudes of the visitors.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

gamayun said:


> If the yacht clubs and sailing clubs today want to stay relevant, then I believe they need to be more inclusive and sail/race more. Though the bar often generates the best bang for the buck for the revenue stream, it seems the days are gone when people sat around, chatting and drinking (too much). That atmosphere of old geezers making stupid, drunk comments is not conducive to keeping kids/young adults interested, and if you're not introducing the next generation to fun, outdoorsy things, then you might as well sell the club to the highest bidding developer. The old business model/traditions/stuck in the rut ways need to be banished from people's mindset. Alas, humans hate change, but if they don't, then the world is going to pass them by as they age. No way am I ever going to sit in a old folks' home reminiscing about the good old days. Tonight I'll think about the good old time I had today. Change is good. Change is inevitable.


So what would that look like exactly, that would attract young people today, if they don't care to go sailing real slow? What would a modern "yacht club" for this generation look like? Would you have to find a way to run off all of the sailboat owners to make room for their speed boats? Would you have to have wakeboard, and flyboard rentals and lessons? How many docks would you have to devote to wave runners and jet skis?
Are young people learning to sail?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Minne: I was referring to the post #89 comments but you can apply that shoe to wherever it fits.Why does it seem that you are either very defensive or easily offended?
> 
> The location and view from the second floor of the Tampa Yacht Club would be incredible. If anything, I was jealous.


No idea how to answer your question, Rock. Pretty sure you weren't referring to me, nor do I belong to a YC. I don't feel offended, nor defensive. Seems that's on you.

I asked who you were calling moron and still don't follow, even with your post reference. Fine by me, if you prefer not to clarify.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^I think the morons are the guys that never visited a yacht club. They couldn't be bothered to rock up and introduce themselves as visiting sailors..Nor could they ask to have a meal and visit the club..maybe a drink perhaps? Sorry, never been turned down anywhere. Usually there is someone who will "sponsor" you for a day. Give it a try! Your a sailor right?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

To A’s point, I’ve rented slip space and mooring balls at several Yacht Clubs. Not a reciprocal thing, as I have no YC membership. Some flat out have reservation sites, others you need to ask nicely.

I’ve never really felt like I was in the right place, however. It’s like everyone knows each other but you. Not awesome, but not a problem.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

Minne: I will be as plain as possible, My moron reference was in regard to this section of Outbound's post:
Unlike duxbury with its requirements of two sponsors and holding a party at your house before being deemed acceptable plymouth was just interested in what boat I had, what kind of sailing I did and if I could help out on the waterfront and the kids sailing program.
Several times my boat partner and I would sail into a harbor and appeal for a curtesy mooring from another towns club. There was an occasion we flew the duxbury burgee and we were refused but if we flew the plymouth burgee there was never an issue.
Think there is push back to the snotty clubs. You need know why you're joining a club. Not infrequently with the yacht clubs in my area it has nothing to do with sailing. 

If you ever have questions as to what my intentions are just ask, I am not sensitive at all. Owning a business makes you the responsible party for everything your employees do as well as the unrealistic expectations of the customers.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Minne: I will be as plain as possible, My moron reference was in regard to this section of Outbound's post:


Got it now. You said post 89, that was post 88. So, if I'm following, you are saying the members of snotty clubs that are there predominantly for social reasons are morons.

Could be true. For me, it takes more than seeing the members only sign to know.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Would note my post as referenced above is historical correct. However, to my understanding that club has evolved to place more emphasis on family activities. That club owns a golf course and that is a major attraction for some. On the other hand Plymouth continues to have a day camp for all kids in the area. Not just members. The emphasis is to get kids, any kids, involved in the sport. That club has produced several Olympic medalists in sailing. 
I tried to get membership at Barrington in order to get access to the mooring field and get out of spending time in a marina. We’re in RI during the summer but try to be out of the US the rest of the time.I was unsuccessful so my only memberships remain OCC and SDR. Guess I’m not much of a belonger. Very much enjoy dinner or a few drinks with another cruising couple or a few hours helping another boat but not much for meetings or formal functions. Like OCC/SDR as they have lectures and symposiums where you actually learn something with the socializing coming in second.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> Rocky Mountain Breeze said:
> 
> 
> > Minne: I will be as plain as possible, My moron reference was in regard to this section of Outbound's post:
> ...


Girls, girls, stop fighting. You're both pretty.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

midwesterner said:


> Girls, girls, stop fighting. You're both pretty.


Fight? Doesn't feel like a fight to me anyway.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

We moored our boat at the marina next to the yacht club for years before someone suggested that they were not a bunch of 'Yachties'.
We decided to give it a try. Most members are pretty regular people, like us.
Many members volunteer to do maintenance and so on which keeps moorage rates about one half of the rates at surrounding marinas.
We are the only place for kids to learn to sail and there is assistance available for those who can't afford it.
There are social activities for those who like that type of thing.
Reciprocal moorage at over 100 clubs is available.
A pretty good racing program exists.

We have a modest bar for the members. This is a non profit volunteer organization and so, no, the hundreds of people that stroll along the sea walkway are not invited in. They are welcome to a tour of the facilities if interested in joining.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

midwesterner said:


> So what would that look like exactly, that would attract young people today, if they don't care to go sailing real slow? What would a modern "yacht club" for this generation look like? Would you have to find a way to run off all of the sailboat owners to make room for their speed boats? Would you have to have wakeboard, and flyboard rentals and lessons? How many docks would you have to devote to wave runners and jet skis?
> Are young people learning to sail?


Young people are learning to sail in droves at my former club in Half Moon Bay. I realize that's a data point of one, but what I've seen here is: find a fun and hip youth instructor, get some FJs or other nimble boats for the teenagers, build some Optis for the youngest, then make it an inviting place where the dads and moms can enjoy a beer or glass of wine while their kids sail in circles. That's one way anyway. Yes, SUPs are kinda necessary, too. Times. They are a'changing, but that's what happens to life when it goes sailing by :kiss


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

gamayun said:


> Young people are learning to sail in droves at my former club in Half Moon Bay........ Yes, SUPs are kinda necessary, too. Times. They are a'changing,....


Well that is very good to know. I'm currently landlocked here in the Midwest. We do have a Sailing Club at a nearby lake. Oh, and by the way, what is SUP?


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

midwesterner said:


> Well that is very good to know. I'm currently landlocked here in the Midwest. We do have a Sailing Club at a nearby lake. Oh, and by the way, what is SUP?


Presumably, "Stand Up Paddleboard". All the rage these days as a great "core" workout.


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