# Hunter 28.5 versus Allmand 31



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

We looked at a few boats today, and saw two that were interesting. One was a 1985 Hunter 28.5 (NOT the 28, but the 28.5) that's in very nice shape for the price. The other is a 1982 Allmand 31 that's a bit of a project. The Allmand is leaking from a few windows, under the grab rails, around the mast, and at the chainplates, and bad enough that the owners a) took out the headliner throughout the boat, and b) have buckets/bowls under the leak points to catch the drips.

From talking to a few people at the marina, the Hunter seems like she's been well maintained. The Allmand may have been owned by folks who were in a bit over their heads. Not that I'm much better off!

So, a little about me - I have a family of 4, including 2 small kids, ages 7 and almost 5. The boys enjoyed sailing some last season, but what they really liked was a) hiding in the cabin to play video games, and b) swimming in the bay. Part of the reason that I think sailing wasn't that much fun was that our old C25's cockpit wasn't really conducive for them helping with the sailing. The cabin/coach roof stood too high, and they couldn't see in front of us at all, and standing on the seats would have made it very easy for them to fall overboard, so that wasn't allowed. I liked the H28.5 and Allmand's cockpits MUCH better than our C25 or the H27 that we saw today. I especially liked the lower profile to the H28.5's coach roof; I thought that would make it easier for the boys to see and be part of the experience. The Allmand's coach roof was higher, but the wider cockpit and space along the outside of the cockpit really made both my wife and me more comfortable with the idea of the boys being up on the seats. Another thing to keep in mind is that with kids of this age, one parent is typically "minding" the kids - so we're (I'm) frequently single-handing although I have company.

We're not a "blue water" family; we're likely to be bay sailers, and MAYBE coastal cruisers, but I doubt we'll take either of these boats farther north than NY City, and farther south than the circumnavigation of the Delaware/Chessepeake. We're mostly day sailers, with the occasional overnight, maybe a bit longer. We don't need blazingly fast - we need comfortable and stable.

So, with all of that in mind, if they were in about the same condition, which one is the better boat? Is the Allmand better built than the Hunter 28.5? Is the Hunter easier/better to sail? I've read mixed reviews about the 16HP Universal diesel in the Allmand; the 15HP Yanmar in the Hunter seems to get better reviews, but is one REALLY that much better than the other?

The Allmand needs work, and before we do anything we'll need to get a survey (probably get one for the Hunter, too), but she looks like she's a) sailable in her current form, and b) improvable in increments so that we're not shelling out massive amounts of money up front to get us sailing. On the other hand, the Hunter is 2-3x the price, but is essentially turn-key. In the end, though, I want a boat that we'll enjoy for several years, and that will be safe for us all. Any feedback to that end will be greatly appreciated!


- Jim


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

The Allmand is a considerably larger boat but with two little kids you won't have much time for working on it. Just maintaining a sound boat takes a lot of time - bringing a neglected one back takes a LOT of time.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Which bay are you talking about keeping it in Barnegat, Delaware, Raritan or the Chesapeake. Is the Hunter one of the older Cherubini designs? Can you post the listings here so we can look at the engines, sails, and accessories lists.

Dave


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Chef,
Probably Barnegat Bay. Here's the Hunter:

1985 Hunter sailboat for sale in New Jersey

And here's the Allmand:
1982 Allmand sailboat for sale in New Jersey

JonB, your point is well taken. The Allmand is in worse, but not a lot worse, condition than my C25 was. It will be a big time commitment, but it looks like it may be worth it in the end.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Chef, interestingly, the pictures of the Allmand are both deceptive and accurate. Looking closely, you can see that the head liner is gone, Nd you can see at least one pot that was used for the leaks.


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Jim-

Sounds like a no-brainer to me..but then again I'm partial to the Allmand as I was a former owner of one...

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1438

Where in the "Western Philly 'burbs" are you from?

Clay AA3JY
s/v 'Tango'
Cabo Rico 34


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm near Lansdale.

All the Allmand owners seem to say the same thing. Collectively, hunter owners aren't quite as strong advocates of their boats, though the 28.5 seems to be well liked.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I have always considered this Boat Review  by David Pascoe - Hunter 28 the most damning survey I ever read, because the scary criticisms all relate to the design and construction of the vessel, and not its condition.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I read that too. According to some of the 28.5 owners, the critiques don't apply to that boat, it is different from the 28.


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

When we owned our Allmand..we replaced the headliner as well. The hardest part was removing all the glue and remaining foam which appears in the pixs that has been done... I think my wife still has pixs of our original project.

Just a little side note.. We sold all Allmand for more then what we paid for it..but then again we put a lot into it..


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Clay, can you point me to your pics? Would love to see your Allmand.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Huge difference between 28.5 and 28. 28.5 is preferred. First I am not a huge Hunter fan as their build quality is not there except in Cherubini designs. Modern ones appeal to people who place high priority to accommodations and set up inside. They have a defiantly following and get people into sailing ar a good price pont so they occupy and important section of he market. The 28.5 head is draconian small. Sit in it and close the door. Get your tp before you sit or you are sh..t out of luck. I am not a fan of the cabin set up with the small forepeak. The B&G rig will give you trouble going downwind in setting te main against the spreaders. Ok light wind bat. Good for Barnegat Bat but will get te crap kinked out of it in higher winds. All mand 30 s abetted boat in size, weight, beam and sailing ability.

Te choice comes own to how it was treated and weather te issues can be addressed easily. 

Be Very careful buying any boat tat was in Sandys path that it wasn't damaged by the storm

Dave


----------



## kb3pwc (May 26, 2009)

Hello, Jim.

I see my husband joined in your discussion on the Allmand Sailboats. They used to have a web page but it no longer seems fully functional (Allmand Sail Dedicated to bringing Allmand owners together). The gentleman who was the moderator was named Hank Green and if you go to the site, you may have better luck than I in getting it to function. The Allmand 31 is a delight for gunk holing. Shallow draft, roomy cockpit with an aft cabin...

It appears from the photos of the boat you were looking at that the overhead foam rubber and its associated fabric has been removed. That is a HUGE job. We then insulated our vessel using the pink foam boards that can be cut with a knife and glued to the hull. We then covered that with the pierced vinyl and I sewed the cover to fit the hull. Then we had a finish carpenter do strips to cover the tack strips so the finished product was pretty professional.

What you bring up is that the vessel is leaking....Any boat that has water intrusion from the deck and port holes is surely getting saturation into the balsa core. We had one spot up on the bow where we did have that happen at the anchor chain pipe. It took all sorts of long tools to reach back into the layers of glass where the core was degrading. For us we were lucky since we could take glass strips soaked in resin and pack it back into the space back to the good core. The normal repair for saturated core is to remove the deck and redo it. That should set off all sorts of bells in your head. A dry boat is a very good thing.

My statement is that a cheap boat can cost you more in the long run. If you like the look of the Allmand, do look at others offered for sale. Do visit other sales sites and I will bet you will find others for sale. We have never purchased the first of any vessel we looked at. Visit other boats listed when you find the style you like. Boats can vary greatly from boat to boat not only in the attention owners have paid to care but also to the equipment they have added. It still seems like a buyers market. Use it to your advantage. Trust me....there will always be another vessel.

Good luck to you and your family.

Leslie

s/v Tango, Cabo Rico 34
Lankford Bay Marina
Chester River, MD


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Leslie,
Thanks for the detailed feedback! Do you have pictures of the headliner install process, or at least before and after pictures of it? Do you remember what you paid in materials?

Your comments about the leaks are exactly what my concerns were, too. I think I may take another trip out there this coming weekend and bring my father along, focusing on the potential problem areas. If it still seems to pass muster, then maybe we'll see about a survey. Believe me, I'm ready to walk away if she's scary - I've seen many other "value priced" boats that scared me. I'm reasonably handy, but I want something I can sail in the spring, not a 3-4 year project. When we bought our C25, I must have looked at 10-15 boats in person, and close to 50-100 online. Most of the ones I visited were too much of a project, even for me. The Allmand seems like a borderline case.

Chef, thanks for the reply about the comparitive strengths/weaknesses of the boats. We're more "comfort" sailers, so we're probably right in Hunter's target market. But I'm concerned enough about safety to want something that will be good if an unexpected storm pops up. Granted, on Barnegat bay, we could practically walk to safety if the boat sank. But still, as I said in the original post, I'd like a boat that I can take out in the ocean if/when the mood strikes me and know we're likely to be safe.


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Unfortunately Leslie's pix are no longer available...

Projects

..an interesting perspective from a Sailnet moderator..

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/359-allmand-31-a.html

..who's never owned one..


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I read that thread a while ago. I tend not to trust overly negative posts from non-owners. For all I know, the person at the helm of the Allmand was someone like me, who would have a hard time getting a sunfish to move in light air because I'm still learning.


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Joan (Trisail) from that post bought our boat. The Allmand can be seen at Spring Cove marina in Rock Hall,Md.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks! I'll have to see if she has any pictures on here.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jim,

I kept an Islander 28 on Barnegat for 6 years . You get good onshore afternoon winds there. Stayed in Dillons Creek Marina. The hunter bathroom is ridiculously small if you are looking for comfort. Also the lack of V berth seperate from setees wil make it feel cramped. Also you mention buying a boat to take in the ocean, hunter vs Allmamd = Allmand all the way. Also Barnegat Inlet in the afternoon, are you serious trying to come in a an 18 hp 2 cylinder. Rethink that. That inlet s one of the most dangerous with breaking waves across it as well as a 4 knott current.

Understand I come in the inlet unless poor conditions on my trip to and from the Chesapeake every year o the LI Sound. I ave done Barnegat over 100 time. You don't want o. Be underpowered through it. It's a very dangerous inlet.

Dave


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks. I've asked the listing marina if I could speak with the owners. I'd like to know what issues they know of before I she'll out the cash for an inspection/survey. I saw something that suggested they tried to sell her before, about 2 years ago. I know she has been available since at least May, and I don't think she splashed at all this past season.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

She didnt get damaged in Sandy right?


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the reminder. The marina said no, no damage from Sandy.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

For posterity purposes, thre's a good review of the Allmand at Classic Plastic: Allmand 31 | Cruising World


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Goes to show that not only a Sailnet moderator has a negative opinion but is reaffirmed that there is no listing of an Allmand in the 'Boat Builders' subforum of Sailnet...


----------



## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Check out this link Hunter 28.5 Lots of info on the 28.5. The 28.5 was one of the better hull shapes produced by Hunter. The 2GMF20 Yanmar engines in these boats is bullet proof and has reasonably priced replacement parts.

Negatives but not show stoppers are the iron keel and some of yhe build quality. Very nice boat for coastal cruising, club racing. I have raced against 28.5s 28.5s for 15 years and they move well in light air.

There used to be an Allmand 31 where I docked. Large boat for a 31. Owner had a lot maintenance issues. He complained that the boat did't sail all that well but it was nice at the dock. The universal diesel kept giving him fits.

In the same price range you might look at the C&C 29-2, A couple of steps above in quality from either of these boats. Priced in the same range. One of the members of this board just put his up for sale last week in the Chesapeake. Nice boat. Sailboat 1984 C&C 29 Mark II


----------



## Ifishli (Oct 2, 2006)

I have an Allmand 31 love the boat, She has her issues as most older boats but is generally solidly constructed, do check for rudder post shelf rot. deck core around mast and hatches and ports. and the headliner you cant miss. 
As most will say a boat is a series of compromises for us we needed a large cabin with all the comforts of home for 2 adults and 3 kids 15, 8, and 6, I think we spent 45 nights on the boat in this year its like a beach house with sails. The room is great. The lower the draft the better for our area ( south shore of long island NY) the 31 is 3' -10" which takes priority over pointing ability, we did not need a racer ether ( got a Thistle for that) I have heard of former Allmand owners that sold there boats for bigger or faster or newer that later regretted getting rid of the boat. BTW the Allmand group site is https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/Allmand.
Gary.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks Gary!


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I had a chance to visit the Allmand with the owner. I saw corrosion on the chain plates, and a possibly damaged bulkhead where one of the chain plates attached, plus other problems, some of which were noted above. I researched repair costs for some of the bigger stuff I saw, subtracted the costs from the NADA value, and made an offer that was about 7% above that result. The owner was less than pleased with the offer, so I walked away. It's a shame, because it would have been a nice boat for us. In the meantime, the Hunter has sold. So, now I am back at square 1. There is a lot of crap out there right now, and stuff that's way outside my budget. I haven't really seen anything that's "close" that meets my needs/requirements. So, I am thinking of sitting out this season, and maybe adding my expected slip fees to the "pot" so I will have more to play with next fall.

Thank you all very much for the help and support!


----------

