# Bilge Ideas?



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I continue with the refit of my O'day 35.The next area that I am planning to tackle is the bilge. 

















I have a couple of things here that I would like to address, and would like input from the experts.

First, the bilge pump hose looks like CRAP and, it is preventing me from cleaning the bilge. I want to rip it out, clean the bilge, and replace the hose. I understand that the flow rate through the hose will dramatically improve with smooth walled hose. My thought is that I could use flexible (1¼") PVC for the entire run, instead of the marine bilge pump hose. 








It is cheaper (~$1.62/ft, versus marine grade 1-1/8" vinyl @ ~$2.50/ft.), and my guess is that it is at least as durable.

The first problem is that the barb on the bilge pump is 1-1/8". Why not 1", 1¼" or 1½"? I guess that this is a "marine" feature... Do I need to swap the pump, or should I just tighten down on the hose clamp?

The second issue, assuming that 1¼" PVC will work, is that the 1½" marine bilge hose allows a 2" minimum turn radius, while the flexible PVC has a 5" minimum radius. In those spots where I need a tight turn, I believe that I could simply use a schedule 40 sweep. 








Thoughts on this?

Third issue: there are several cables that run through the bilge; Co-ax for the VHF Antenna, Nav lights on the mast, the white cables that you see in the pic are two lengths of 14 gauge that run to the Vacuflush suction pump, and macerator.

I would like to re-route these through schedule 40 conduit. My thought is to run conduit through the upper area of the bilge. There area already at least two 1" holes in two of the stringers. There is one in the aft stringer, hidden in the upper picture by the raised sole, and another in the stringer under the forward edge of the table. My thought here is that I could widen the existing holes to 1¼" and to cut new holes through the stringers without holes. I would first assure that each of the holes lined up so that the conduit would run clearly fore and aft. Then, I would coat the edges of the holes with thickened epoxy, and then run sections of 1¼ conduit through the holes before the epoxy sets.

I do not believe that this would appreciably decrease the strength of the stringers (there are already holes in them), but it would neaten up the bilge, and secure the wires that have been flopping unsecured to date. Plus, I think that there might be enough room so that and future electrical modifications could run through this conduit too.

Thoughts?


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

I can't comment on the bilge hose, but would suggest you need to get those cables out of the bilge wherever possible, since PVC cable sheaths are not absolutely hydrocarbon resistant and the cables will corrode and fail eventually if left in the oily environment that is most boat's bilges.

Certainly run them in conduit, if you can, but to my mind, the best place for them to run is more likely the bottom of the settees than in the upper bilge. Can you do this??


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

For my bilge pump I used a marine hose that is ribbed outside and smooth inside. Very flexible but very tough. Not that expensive as I recall.

I agree with Hartley. Ideally get the wires you can out of the bilge. If you use a conduit drill multiple drain holes in it to drain the water that will probably get into it over time.


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## windyburr (Dec 9, 2007)

Regarding the bilge, not sure about your set-up but looks to me you have a long run from the pump to out. My solution was to find an industrial hose supplier that had a hose in the size I needed (inch and a quarter) but I also used two hoses, one half inch hose hooked up to a small bilge pump (500gpm)to minimize the back flow when the pump stops and the large bilge pump with the large diameter hose. I also had a real good look at alternative routes for the bilge hose to shorten the run as much as possible. Definitely keep the wires out of the bilge if possible. Without getting into too much fluid dynamics sharp bends-esp. 90 degrees are not a good idea, to be avoided as much as possible.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

eherlihy said:


> I continue with the refit of my O'day 35.The next area that I am planning to tackle is the bilge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just because the outside is ribbed, doesn't mean that interior is ribbed. Many vacuum resistant hoses will have a wire reinforcement that is visible on the exterior but be smooth-walled inside. How collapse resistant is that flexible PVC. Of course, it also depends on what type of pump and where the pump is located.

You would need to get an adapter to change the diameter using a short pigtail. However, be aware that such adapters generally restrict the inner diameter of the hose a bit and can become a source of clogs. Just clamping down on the hose isn't going to work very well and the setup will generally leak.



> The second issue, assuming that 1¼" PVC will work, is that the 1½" marine bilge hose allows a 2" minimum turn radius, while the flexible PVC has a 5" minimum radius. In those spots where I need a tight turn, I believe that I could simply use a schedule 40 sweep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd stick with all hose and run it continuously if you can. Additional joins and piece all become another place for leaks and failure.



> Third issue: there are several cables that run through the bilge; Co-ax for the VHF Antenna, Nav lights on the mast, the white cables that you see in the pic are two lengths of 14 gauge that run to the Vacuflush suction pump, and macerator.
> 
> I would like to re-route these through schedule 40 conduit. My thought is to run conduit through the upper area of the bilge. There area already at least two 1" holes in two of the stringers. There is one in the aft stringer, hidden in the upper picture by the raised sole, and another in the stringer under the forward edge of the table. My thought here is that I could widen the existing holes to 1¼" and to cut new holes through the stringers without holes. I would first assure that each of the holes lined up so that the conduit would run clearly fore and aft. Then, I would coat the edges of the holes with thickened epoxy, and then run sections of 1¼ conduit through the holes before the epoxy sets.
> 
> ...


Get it out of the bilge if at all possible. You should never run wiring in the bilge if it can be avoided.  Also, drilling holes through stringers and floors is best to be avoided when ever possible.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> How collapse resistant is that flexible PVC. Of course, it also depends on what type of pump and where the pump is located.


This is the flexible schedule 40 PVC. It's is vacuum rated for 28" of Hg (381", or, *31.8 feet* of water), and has a working PSI of 65, with a burst pressure of 200 @ 68ºF. This should be _more _than adequate for the manual pump, which is in the cockpit. The smaller of the two ribbed hoses that you see in my pictures above is for the electric pump, and the larger is for the manual pump.

The electric bilge pump is in the bilge (surprise!). 








- Shown here before I bought the boat, and before the keel bolts were replaced.



sailingdog said:


> You would need to get an adapter to change the diameter using a short pigtail. However, be aware that such adapters generally restrict the inner diameter of the hose a bit and can become a source of clogs. Just clamping down on the hose isn't going to work very well and the setup will generally leak.


I am actually considering using a smaller diameter hose for intake of the manual pump.I would step it up to 1½" hose just before the pump. Assuming that I don't change the manual pump, decreasing the diameter of the hose would increase the velocity of the water flowing through the hose, and increase the amount of room that I would have to work in the bilge.

If I _increase_ the diameter of the hose from the electric bilge pump, from 1-1/8 to 1½, I would expect that I would also decrease the likely hood of obstruction. I guess that I will also need to change the size of the through hull.



sailingdog said:


> I'd stick with all hose and run it continuously if you can. Additional joins and piece all become another place for leaks and failure.


Again, this is schedule 40 PVC. I have never had an issue with joints breaking, assuming that they are primed and cemented properly.

However, I think that I could change the routing of the hose, and not need them. Both hoses run down the center of the bilge, until they reach the engine bulkhead. There they turn 90º to starboard for about a foot, then they turn 90º and run aft toward the transom under the rear quarter berth. The electric bilge pump's hose runs directly out the transom, and the manual pump's hose rises to the cockpit, where it connects to the pump.

Regarding the cable runs:
Agreed... I don't like cables in the bilge at all, but there are some cables that must run into the bilge; like the (keel stepped) mast wiring (VHF & nav. lights) and the bilge pump wiring. Bangor Punta put the current holes in the stringers 24 years ago.

Why were the other wires snaked through the bilge, you ask? Because, I believe that the PO paid a yard to install a vacuflush head. The yard ran the wire the easiest and fastest way that they could (cheap, shoddy workmanship - by "professionals").


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## engele (Nov 26, 2006)

I would not use joints if you can help it (elbows and diameter adapters), if you do it will mean that you have another point of failure. If it works why change it? I would get the wires mounted as high as possible for now, and consider moving them out of the bilge later.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

engele said:


> If it works why change it?


Because; 
it looks like crap
I have the time
I want it to be reliable
I want it to be serviceable

Here is an example of how this affects reliability. Shortly after I brought the boat to her new home, SD and I were working on the mast wiring. I remembered that when motoring her the steaming light went out. I discovered that the spade connector had vibrated loose, thus extinguishing the light. I figured that spade connectors, even with the nylon covers, lying in the bilge was the wrong way to make the connection, so I cut 6" from the end of the wire off and stripped it to put a watertight connector on. The wire here was badly corroded. So I stripped another 6" back. Still corroded. Then I stripped a foot back from the end (running out of slack in the wire now) and it was _still _corroded.:hothead

By now I was out of slack and I decided that the entire cable needed to be replaced.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

And he did, with adhesive-lined heat shrink single-crimp terminals and proper marine-grade wiring. 



eherlihy said:


> Because;
> it looks like crap
> I have the time
> I want it to be reliable
> ...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*Update:*

The hose that you see in the pix above has been re-deployed to the marina's dumpster. I was on the fence about replacing this until the electric bilge pump hose (smaller of the two) cracked about where it passes under the manual pump's hose as I was moving it to better access the wires.

I replaced the 1-1/8" hose with 1" Flexible PVC hose that you see above - although I bought it at Lowes for $2.60/foot. I used a butane torch 
- my new favorite tool 
works great on heat shrink tubing
can be used to increase the flexibility of Flexible PVC hose
aids in the removal of chain plates bedded in 4200
and browns the top of cremè brûléé beautifully 
- to heat the PVC and allow me to stretch it over the fittings at the pump, and the vacuum break. The new 1½" hose was also purchased at Lowes, for $3.44/foot. (I'll gladly pay $2 for a $1 item that I need when I need it.)

I _AM_ using the PVC joints that I illustrated above. I discovered that there is already a coupling at the manual bilge pump which reduces the useful inner diameter at the coupling to less than 1½" than the hose. If there is going to be a restriction, it is going to be at this coupling, or in the pump. Because this coupling has been there for 20+ years, and preformed acceptably, I will run the risk of adding two more components, neither of which will decrease the inner diameter to less than 1½".

Most of the wiring is now out of the bilge, and runs through the stringers (as they should have been in the first place). The 16 gauge wiring to the mast base has been replaced with marine grade 14/5 conductor (I now have a spare to run a strobe if I ever want to), and the connections have all been properly made with adhesive -lined heat shrink. The 16 gauge wiring to the bilge pump has been replaced with marine grade 14/3. I have installed a Auto/Manual Bilge Pump switch, with an indicator light and 10A fuse, after the 15A breaker.

The exception is the cable between the depth transducer, and the knot log. I can't remove these cables without opening up the binnacle, and I'm not in the mood to try that right now. I would like to keep this a managable project.

While everything is open, I plan to replace the co-ax, however, because it too looks like crap, the sheathing has become brittle, and I suspect that there is some corrosion in there.

Finally, I scrubbed the bilge with bilge cleaner and a brush, but still had nasty looking stains... Finally, figuring that I had nothing to loose, I tried some Acetone and water on a rag. What a difference! While the paint doesn't look new, it looks a LOT better than what you see above.

Progress!!


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## RosaViento (Apr 4, 2011)

Has anyone here used CPVC (Chlorinated Polyvinl Chloride) yet in any of their salt or freshwater installations ? Been researching it for my freshwater system and been cosidering useing it for even my bilge pumps. Just wondering has anyone else had any expieriences with it ? Works well with Quick connect fittings and has flexible qualities as well. Rateings seem good.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

RosaViento said:


> Has anyone here used CPVC (Chlorinated Polyvinl Chloride) yet in any of their salt or freshwater installations ? Been researching it for my freshwater system and been cosidering useing it for even my bilge pumps. Just wondering has anyone else had any expieriences with it ? Works well with Quick connect fittings and has flexible qualities as well. Rateings seem good.


That is what I believe that I used for my bilge. I am comfortable with it in this application, as it is resistant to most chemicals that may find their way into the bilge (salts & hydrocarbons). I'm not sure about using it as a fresh water supply though. It is pricy (see my earlier post).

I am using Clear Polyvinyl Chloride tubing as freshwater fill, and freshwater supply lines. This is also spendy... the 1½" Clear cost me over $5/foot


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Glad you're progressing..... but

:worthless:


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Tomorrow I'll bring the camera - I promise...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If you drill holes in the stringers to pass the conduit or cable through, the ruleo fthumb is to make the hjoles not more than 1/3 the width of the stringer, and to center it edge to edge. This produces the least weakening of the stringer.

And of course you'd want to epoxy paint all the bare surfaces, including the new holes.

I suspect that reducing the size of the intake hose was a mistake, that will just be seen as an input restriction by the pump. It can't increase velocity since that's already maximized by the fixed speed of the pump motor, all you can do is reduce that speed by choking off the intake. Still...It's done now. And smooth beats corrugated by a huge amount.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

As promised;

Before:









After:









Bilge pump, VHF, and mast wiring upgraded, and cleaned up and NOT running through the bilge;









New raw water seacock and backing block - a-la Maine Sail;









Hinged electrical panel (I still need to neaten the wires up behind it);









M25 engine before;









Now, with new alternator, new alternator bracket, new wiring, temperature sender in T-stat housing (removed T fitting), new water pump, rebuilt raw water 
pump, new hoses, hot water heater connected to bypass circuit (all the wires still need to be loomed and tie-wrapped);


















New Engine Schematic;








NOTE: To anyone following in my footsteps; the Alt Field wire, shown here as red with green heat shrink on the ends must be *REMOVED*. I found this out the hard way. Apparently it carries high AC amperage, enough to melt the 14g wire. After I cleaned up the mess, and replaced the other wires that it shorted, I can tell you that IT IS NOT NEEDED. The alternator self excites, the tach works perfectly (verified with an optical tach), the output voltage at 2500 RPM is 14.7V.

New Clear Polyvinyl Chloride freshwater fill, and vent lines;


















New bilge pump switch and fuel gauge;


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Also replaced all the tank vents with these;









100% 316 Stainless


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Looks good. I had that corrugated bilge pump hose on my boat as well. But they laid it in the bilge and then glassed the liner in so it was almost a permanent item though rotten. I removed it by putting lock pliers on it and pulling it out as it unraveled - took a while. I am envious of a deep bilge. My sump over the keel bolts, the deepest part, is about 7" deep.

I replaced the fuel fill and vent lines when I replaced the fuel tank. The vent was corroded so it had to go too. It was high up on the transom and there was only about 2 1/2" between the transom and the aft part of the cockpit well. They installed it before the deck went on. I cut a hole and covered it with a waterproof access plate.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Looking good. I've often wondered though, about replacing the raw water pump cover with a piece of 1/4" tempered glass instead. Fast way to make sure the impeller is all there, should cost too much to have a glazier cut it, drill it, temper it.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Good thing you did that alternator bracket up grade. By the looks of that silver colored gear case it already broke it once.. Looking good!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*Forensic boat mechanics*



Maine Sail said:


> Good thing you did that alternator bracket up grade. By the looks of that silver colored gear case it already broke it once.. Looking good!


Thank you!

I suspect that the bracket held up, but the timing case cover cracked, and leaked oil into the bilge, thus the oil stain visible in the before pic. The boat sat for a while and the oil, or what ever the PO used to try to clean it, attacked the original bilge pump hoses, and made them brittle, thus they cracked when I tried to move them out of the way while pulling the cables.

The yard that did the repair replaced the timing case cover in 2007 (treated the symptom), but they did not replace the bracket (address the problem). The alternator bracket has been a well known and publicized issue with the Universal M25 engine since 1998 (at least). Perhaps they viewed not doing the repair as an investment in the opportunity to preform work in the future?

There have been several other "stories" that she has told me while I've worked on her this winter. 
The alternator output that went to the instrument panel presumably for the non-existent ammeter
The 5/8" hose on the ½" barb addressed by cranking extra tight on the hose clamp
The nasty - externally sticky - PVC Freshwater hose, also attacked by the oil, or mystery cleaner
The one backing block for the chainplate, accessible through the head locker, that only had one nut (and some 5200) holding it in place (You can read about that here.)
The Seward S700 _aluminum_ water heater installed on a boat without a galvanic isolator on the shore power connection... (I have addressed this)
I could go on... 

I have come to the conclusion that the guy that owned her before me racked up a big account with that yard which claims that they


> have set the highest standards in the industry for amenities and services


 and they proceeded to do shoddy workmanship and, in general, screw several things up.

You would have loved to see the back of the electrical panel pictured above... My first discovery is that the AC neutral was run to the engine block. This would have been interesting if I ever connected to a reverse polarity dock box.



> [EDIT 5/8/2011] - Because, like many of us, I don't do this day in and day out, the above paragraph has continued to bother me since I typed it. I've looked several places and found seemingly contradictory information on whether either the *AC GROUND* or the *AC NEUTRAL* should be tied to either the boat's DC Negative or bonding circuits. Because I took the course, got the certificate, and was still confused, I thought that I would try to help the reader out by sharing my conclusion. My hope is that this will help someone else that may still be confused: TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, BASED ON INCOMPLETE RESEARCH (I'm not Faust);
> THE AC NEUTRAL (white wire) *SHOULD NOT BE* TIED TO THE BOAT'S DC NEGATIVE OR BONDING CIRCUIT.
> THE AC GROUND (the green wire) *SHOULD BE* TIED TO THE BOAT'S DC NEGATIVE OR BONDING CIRCUIT.
> For more on the dangers, read this story.
> ...


Second, when who-ever-it-was, ran out of connections for negative leads on the DC bus, they put one of these







on a 12" piece of 12 gauge wire. Then they stripped the other end, and *SOLDERED* the negative leads from five different circuits onto this piece of wire. For safety, they then wrapped the abomination in electrical tape (the cover up). There were two of these...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> Looking good. I've often wondered though, about replacing the raw water pump cover with a piece of 1/4" tempered glass instead. Fast way to make sure the impeller is all there, should cost too much to have a glazier cut it, drill it, temper it.


Interesting idea!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Ok, gotta ask.. where/how did you get the 90 degree bend hoses for the water pump to thermostat and from stat to manifold? Love your boat!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Thanks Denise!

RE Hoses: 
302086	HOSE,ELBOW	$32.37
302150	ELBOW 1 HOSE x 7/8 HOSE 90	$43.23
32924 ELBOW 3/4 NPT x 7/8 HOSE $28.24
HW-28 7/8" Hardwall Water Hose $6.90
36838 NIPPLE 3/4 NPT x 7/8 HOSE $42.90


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Thanks E! Oh My Gawd.. no wonder no one replaces them! I knew Torrenson was high.. but.. then.. they have the parts don't they? my 2 cylinder 5416 needs em eventually. 

Yes Lovely boats those Odays


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

eherlihy said:


> There have been several other "stories" that she has told me while I've worked on her this winter.
> The alternator output that went to the instrument panel presumably for the non-existent ammeter


Most every Universal from this era had this horrible set up but luckily many have been converted or upgraded..



eherlihy said:


> The 5/8" hose on the ½" barb addressed by cranking extra tight on the hose clamp


See that one a lot more than you'd want to believe..



eherlihy said:


> The nasty - externally sticky - PVC Freshwater hose, also attacked by the oil, or mystery cleaner


PEX baby!!!



eherlihy said:


> The one backing block for the chainplate, accessible through the head locker, that only had one nut (and some 5200) holding it in place (You can read about that here.)


Where was your surveyor?



eherlihy said:


> The Seward S700 _aluminum_ water heater installed on a boat without a galvanic isolator on the shore power connection... (I have addressed this)


Sadly there are thousands of boat without GI's on-board.



eherlihy said:


> Second, when who-ever-it-was, ran out of connections for negative leads on the DC bus, they put one of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One boat I am currently working on had nearly all the crimp connectors put on with pliers and almost every wire on-board was 16GA or smaller. Nearly every crimp comes off with just the smallest tug. Also found signs where the "smoke monster" had been let out of the cage and left tracks... There are a lot of scary situations out there. I find it amazing more boats don't sink or catch fire..

All we can do is try and correct the problems as best we can and make them better than before..


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Maine Sail said:


> ....... There are a lot of scary situations out there. I find it amazing more boats don't sink or catch fire..


I've heard that some insurance companies are giving credit for the new 'SmartPlug' shore power connector (costs $150) for this very reason. Do you know if this is true?

SmartPlug Systems - Shore Power Products and Accessories


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes it is true. Not sure of the company name but at least one is giving a healthy discount - $100 if I recall. I have installed a few of the Smartplugs, all on wooden boats where the previous inlet burned. 

But like Maine posted, there are all kinds of issues that make you wonder why there wasn't a previous fire.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Faster said:


> I've heard that some insurance companies are giving credit for the new 'SmartPlug' shore power connector (costs $150) for this very reason. Do you know if this is true?
> 
> SmartPlug Systems - Shore Power Products and Accessories


It's sad these companies don't inspect the rest of the system.. While shore power plugs are historically rather problematic much if it is not the fault of the plug. When Buffy & Skippy toss the line on their new Sea Ray 380 and pull away with the shore power cord still attached it's not always the fault of the receptacle, especially when they return and plug it back in after having just ripped it out by it's roots..

Shore power receptacles are the least of the worries on many boats. I have seen two boats in the last month with AC / White and AC /Green tied together on-board the boat. The Smart Plug won't fix that.. Perhaps the owner would be better off with the power not actually getting to the boat in the first place with wiring like that, so a good old failure prone shore power plug might actually be better in some situations....

How about a $150.00 credit for installing an ELCI, or fusing your battery bank or using the correct wire gauges for the loads, or having your AC & DC systems wired to some semblance of a standard.?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I was surprised at the insurance discount as well, with the other problems on many boats. I too have come across ground and neutral joined on the boat.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> If you drill holes in the stringers to pass the conduit or cable through, the ruleo fthumb is to make the hjoles not more than 1/3 the width of the stringer, and to center it edge to edge. This produces the least weakening of the stringer.
> 
> And of course you'd want to epoxy paint all the bare surfaces, including the new holes.
> 
> I suspect that reducing the size of the intake hose was a mistake, that will just be seen as an input restriction by the pump. It can't increase velocity since that's already maximized by the fixed speed of the pump motor, all you can do is reduce that speed by choking off the intake. Still...It's done now. And smooth beats corrugated by a huge amount.


Not sure that I completely follow the logic RE putting holes in the stringer (which I didn't do). It seems to me that if the hole is (horizontally) centered in the stringer, that this is the area where the stringer is already under the most stress. It would make more sense to put the hole off to one side or the other.

Also, "reducing the size of the intake hose?" To which hose are you referring?

I reduced the ID of the output of the electric bilge hose by 1/8", but replaced corrugated with smooth hose. The Vacuum break in this hose is a barb fitting, near the transom. The barb reduces the effective ID of the hose by (probably) ¼".

If you are referring to the raw water system, I replaced a ½" through hull with a strainer (and barnacles) with a 3/4" through hull. This connects to a 3/4" line which goes into the Grocko (bronze) strainer. Exiting the strainer is a ½" line that goes to the raw water pump, which has always had ½" fittings, although the hose _was_ 5/8". From the pump the hose goes to the heat exchanger which has a ½" fitting, for both input, and output. Finally, a ½" hose runs from the H/X to the exhaust elbow (although I must confess that I have not checked this fitting size, or replaced this hose). This circuit is now substantially "cleaned up" by running 3/4 to the strainer, and consistently ½" after the strainer. All the hoses now match their respective barb connectors.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*More progress...*

Because this is where most of my refit pictures have landed, I thought that I could share some more...

More Bilge;

The sink drain seacock:
Before: - Yes that is painted marine plywood used as a backing plate 









After:









Prop shaft (which concerns me)

In the bilge;

















Under water;








Looks like the Zinc has precipitated out from galvanic corrosion...
The Prop looks OK though...


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think a new stuffing box and shaft might be in your future. 

Sink drain seacock looks good!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> I think a new stuffing box and shaft might be in your future.


I _*hope*_ to get another year out of both. The refit is eating me alive... but then again it's a BOAT - Break Out Another Thousand$$$....

Thanks!!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If it isn't leaking profusely and doesn't fall apart in your hands it should last another year. It looks like it has already lasted a few decades so what's another year?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Note that based on further reading that I will once again be DISCONNECTING the through hulls from the bonding circuit. 

Also note the edit that I made to post #21.


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## Tanley (Aug 20, 2009)

Wow, the seacocks and backing plates look great, BUT, I don't think you have the procedure down yet.

I know a guy with a Cal 28-2 that might let you replace all of his to better hone your skills...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Follow up to my earlier edit


> THE AC NEUTRAL (white wire) SHOULD NOT BE TIED TO THE BOAT'S DC NEGATIVE OR BONDING CIRCUIT.
> THE AC GROUND (the green wire) SHOULD BE TIED TO THE BOAT'S DC NEGATIVE OR BONDING CIRCUIT.


This is what the back of the electrical panel now looks like;
*DC Negative Bus​*








Most of the wiring that I ran uses yellow for negative. Much of the earlier wiring (before me) was Ancor stranded, tinned, and in good shape, but used black for negative. Some examples are the wires running to the Macerator, Vacuflush Vacuum Generator, and the Nav station. The wire for the Bilge pump uses black for negative, because I couldn't find 3 strand cable with yellow.

*AC Ground and AC Neutral​*









*DC Breaker Panel​*








One of the fuses goes to the holding tank monitor system. The other (heavier) one goes to the propane solenoid switch.

*1 Both 2 Off switch, AC Breaker and Reverse Polarity Alarm​*









Note that the Bilge Pump is connected to Battery 1 which can be seen under one of the rubber terminal post guards.

The rats nest of wires that are stuffed into the bottom of the compartment allow me some additional play in case I ever need some slack. The wiring is *FAR *neater than it ever was before, and I decided I can live with it. Realize that when I bought the boat _everything_ was attached to the panel, which was screwed in place. If I ever want to cut the wire ties, and redo all the crimps (at about $1 each) for strictly aesthetic reasons, that will be my project.

Tanley, PM me if you want some help / advice.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

EH, a minor nit-pick here..

I'd suggest you somehow separate your AC wiring (including neutral and grounds) from the DC side as much as possible - to prevent inadvertent cross-connection (and subsequent equipment damage) from chafe.

Ways this is normally done is by using separate ducting (marked "AC only") or spiral conduit. Possible?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I agree with Hartley, all AC should be separate from DC and covered as well. ABYC agrees.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Thanks Guys!

Looking for constructive feedback is why I posted the pix. 

Again, realize that when she was built, everything was mounted - without any covers - to the panel which is now hinged. What is pictured above is far better (more access-able, tinned, heat shrink & crimped ring terminals) than what O'day did at the factory.

To separate AC from DC, I envision a clear plastic cover over the AC Neutral and Ground. I'm thinking of re-purposing a Tupperware container. To separate the AC Hot, a black plastic cover over everything up to the Battery switch.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> To separate AC from DC, I envision a clear plastic cover over the AC Neutral and Ground. I'm thinking of re-purposing a Tupperware container. To separate the AC Hot, a black plastic cover over everything up to the Battery switch.


Sounds fine to me - but make sure you don't seal it all up too tight, you need air gaps for ventilation and clear labelling. The wiring can get kind of hot if it's under a big load (inverters, heaters being the main culprits)..


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is how the panels were covered on a Pacific Seacraft.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> Here is how the panels were covered on a Pacific Seacraft.


Very pretty! ..although, in the hands of Joe Average Boatie, I can't see that acrylic panel staying there very long. 

IMHO, it would have been far better - and safer - if there was a separate acrylic section (with a 90 degree bend in it dividing the DC from the AC) for the AC only, even if that meant having nothing covering the DC breakers at all... Most people are reluctant to remove covers over something clearly marked "Caution: 110V AC!" unless they really have to, whereas 12VDC seems fair game.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Hartley

I agree. Blue Seas makes covers that are specifically designed to cover the AC panels or the AC section of an AC/Dc panel. Or one can be easily made.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I like the acrylic too!

I am thinking of a piece of dark acrylic over the 110V section, and a clear piece over the 12V section... and  neatening up the rats nest a little more (more zip ties).

Talk about thread drift... The title of this thread is "Bilge Ideas"


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> I continue with the refit of my O'day 35.The next area that I am planning to tackle is the bilge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Christian Williams post here http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/265721-dc-panel-revision-ericson-38-a.html had me look this old post up again, and I thought that I should show anyone interested how it all turned out.

Here is the current state of that bilge;

























The smooth walled PVC pool hose has worked like a champ!
I used 1" smooth walled hose in place of the 1-1/8" corrugated bilge hose, and it handles the (infrequent) requirement to pump out my bilge with no problem.

I did not run the conduit, as I had wanted, but have settled on moving *all* the wiring from the bilge, and run it through the stringers.

Finally, the PVC fittings worked perfectly.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Cool. Thanks for the update.


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