# advice on first boat



## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

hi, i'm looking for advice on my first boat, and would like some suggestion on the proper boat to get to learn the rope for a couple of year before to commit to something larger that will then include the family.


my only experience sailing is a spring break sail camp in france on a lake as a teenager (wich leads me here 20 years later) and plan on to take few ASA class in addition to you tube tutorial from here and there

i will be using the boat in and around gardiners bay long island , new-york

the amenities and cabin comfort offering of the boat are are secondary to me at this -point , but would rather have a great
learning vessel that that still allows me to do 100 plus miles trip in descent condition , and be appropripriate to sail trough moderately bad weather as well.

very exited to have join this community , thank you in advance for your suggestions


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Many sailing schools encourage their students to take the boats without an instructor for a day or more. I suggest that you enroll in a school, and take advantage of this. 

My first real sailing experience was with a club. I took my ASA courses through them, and then joined their club, which allowed me to use the boat any day after 10:am, and to reserve the boat for a week long cruise. Boats ranged from Pearson 26s to CAL 39s. I eventually grew tired of the way that the boats were kept (no one person owned them, so no one loved them) and so bought my first boat an O'day 35.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

What's the budget? You can do this on anything down to about $5,000 but could easily spend 20 times that or more.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

You will save a lot by joining a club as mentioned above.
Sail for a while first before deciding to actually own one...and all that comes with it.


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

thank you, Eherlihi, i don't know how i feel about taking someone else's boat out, i tihnck i would freak out twice more then if it was mine in top of all the other feeling i'll have. especailly on my first miles solo

something about this idea is just not for me,

i know i have to buy it make it my own and then sail it .

best.


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

hi stumble, my budget is about 60k max


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

So you want a starter boat, good sailer but not necessarily luxurious, and you want to be able to sail 100 miles a day; and the budget is 60K max.

I get that you want to buy your own boat rather than join a club; not the way I did it, but to each his own. As a starter boat, I would recommend getting something on the smaller side, say 22-26 feet. You learn a lot more about sailing with a smaller, tiller steered boat. The boat reacts more quickly and you can actually see and feel the results of your sail trim and steering much more easily. And for 60K, you could buy two new boats that size or maybe 10 used ones. If you intend to use the boat then move up, resale value should also be on your list. Go with a newer Catalina 22. There are about a zillion out there, choices are fulsome, prices are low, values are high. You cruise it (like camping on the water), race it, beat the hell out of it, then sell it for what you paid for it in a couple of years. Get a nice one with a trailer for less than 10K. 

the Catalina isn't your only choice. You could also look at the Catalina 25, the Oday 22, 222, 23 and 25. The Pearson 26 is another choice. You have many similar choices. About the only thing you can't get with your budget is a boat that will be able to sail 100 miles in a day. Assuming by "in a day" you mean about a 10 hour period. If you could crank an average speed of 5 knots over the course of 10 hours out of any production boat that size, you are doing quite well. Amazingly well. So adjust your expectations a bit, and enjoy.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

What mstern said.

Guy in my marina just bought his first boat, an old Ranger 22 in kinda rough but sound and sailable shape for $1,500. Its actually pretty quick. Small boats are more fun, and you'll learn more sailing them. Big boats damp out the inputs more. Plus, with a small boat you can cheaply stick an outboard on it and not have to deal with the tremendous expenses that very often go with an aging diesel inboard. Hell, you could even push one in and out of the slip with an electric trolling motor.

You can get back out of these boats for not much of a loss if your careful, and the knowledge you take with you will scale up to your next boat perfectly.


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## Heller Gregory (Jun 3, 2016)

I really liked chartering to figure out what kind of boat I wanted. It's good to learn on the 25' boats w/out much luxury. I thought I'd want a 31' boat max. Sure enough, the club got the boat I was looking @ & it was too small once I chartered it a few times. I didn't like it either. After chartering a bunch, I settled on my 39'er that I absolutely love!!


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

While i don't disagree that a Catalina 22, or some other small trailer sailor is a good way to learn, if you go the small boat route I would suggest a true daysailor, really whatever small one design class is raced locally. Even if you choose not to race it makes selling it in a couple of years easy so long as you have kept the maintenance up. 

If you want something to sail 100nm and spend weekends on it with your significant other then I would look for something in the low 30' range. Large enough to do more than camp, but still small enough to get a feel for the boat. In your price range a Beneteau 321 wouldbe the safe bet (easy to buy easy to sell), and older Pearson or Catalina in good condition would be high on my list, even a J-30 if it still had the interior (many were stripped out for racing) would be in your price range. 

the thing is small boat (<20' no keel) sailing teaches you different skills. You can feel how the boat reacts when you move forward an inch or two for instance. Loads are very light so you do them by hand, which also means you know when they start to load up, etc.

Ideally you do both, race a small boat and cruise the larger one, andhave a blast doing both.


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

everyone seems to agree that handlng a small 22 is very good to learn (and fun) . .if i can steal one for cheap, i get to be on the water. learn from her until i grow out of it. sounds like a plan.

and i can keep looking around for a 30 footer in the same time ,since i did not brake the bank , no rush.


thank you for your valuable input. 

bon vent a tous !


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello and Welcome!

You will find a typical progression is to start small (18-22') then move to something bigger (around 30) and then something even bigger (35-40). Of course not everyone does this, but it makes sense. If you buy an older boat in good condition and keep it that way, you will get most of you money back when you sell.

My story:
Used to have a motorhome and did some camping on the north east with my family (wife and 3 young kids). In 2003, after wasting too much time in traffic trying to get back on Long Island after a weekend in PA we decided to give sailing a try. I did some research and in August bought an older Catalina 22. I spent around $3500 for the boat (and trailer) in ready to sail condition. We spent the rest of 2003 learning to sail and having a lot of fun. That first year we trailer sailed the boat - trailer the boat to the marina, rig it, launch it, sail it, recover, un rig and trailer home. Sailing was great, trailering stunk. In 2004 I got a mooring in Mt. Sinai harbor and that made sailing much more fun. We sailed that boat all spring 2004 and I was hooked. By June I (thought I) knew what I was doing and wanted a boat big enough to spend weekends on. The Catalina 22 had a small cabin that the kids (2. 5. 8 at the time) could nap, play, relax in, but was way too small to overnight on. So at the end of June I bought a Newport 28. This was a 'big boat' with inboard diesel, real marine head, pressure hot and cold water, galley, bunks for 5, wheel steering, roller furler, etc. We had a lot fun with that boat and sailed to Milford Ct, Northport NY, Mattituck, Bridgeport, etc. The Newport was great for a night or two, but too small for a week (which was my next plan). Sailed the Newport for 3 years and then bought an O'day 35 at the end of 2006. The 35 had plenty of space for 5 people for up to a week. We sailed that boat from NYC to Block Island and everywhere in between. For my use, a boat around 35' is the perfect size. Small enough to single hand, and maintain myself (mostly). Big enough for 4-6 people to get away for a few days. Capable of sailing in some bad weather, enough tankage, etc. In 2013 I sold the O'day and bought my current boat, a C&C 110. This boat will keep me happy until I retire. Then, with some luck, I will get something around 42' to spend a month or so aboard in places like Maine in summer or the carib in winter.

Some random thoughts:
Sailboats are slow! So a 100 mile trip in a boat is a LONG trip (especially for someone just starting). Gardiners bay in a FANTASTIC place to sail. There are so many places near by you could easily spend a few years and never be more than 100 miles from home.

You should check out the Peconic Bay Sailing Association
https://www.pbsa.us/

Where are you going to keep the boat? Make sure you get that done before you buy anything. Slip? Mooring? Trailer?

Don't get hung on any particular brand. Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, Jeanneau, O'day, Newport, Pearson, C&C, Tartan, Watkins, Precision, etc. - they are all MOSTLY the same. Some are better, some are worse. My suggestion is to start playing around on yachtworld and look at lots of pictures. Then ask more questions.

Have fund and good luck,
Barry



longislandrookie said:


> everyone seems to agree that handlng a small 22 is very good to learn (and fun) . .if i can steal one for cheap, i get to be on the water. learn from her until i grow out of it. sounds like a plan.
> 
> and i can keep looking around for a 30 footer in the same time ,since i did not brake the bank , no rush.
> 
> ...


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Moore 24 - Webb Chiles seems to like his "GANNET".

As someone suggested...you can get in and out of the slip with a trolling motor!

GANNET ? GANNET is a Moore 24, one of the first ultra-light displacement boats from Santa Cruz, California, where she was launched in 1979. 156 Moore 24s were built in the late 1970s and 1980s. GANNET is hull number 40.? I?d harbored vague thoughts a

Love for the Moore 24 | Cruising World


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I was going to suggest a Catalina 22 until I saw the $60k number. You could almost buy a C22 with the interest on $60k…..

It is a great boat to learn on. It's big enough to have a bit of that big boat feel, but small enough that you don't really need the winches and you can manhandle it around the dock.

I spend the night frequently on mine. When my wife joins me it starts to get a bit crowded, but it's doable. 

And I use a Minn Kota trolling motor as my auxiliary propulsion. Works great.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

longislandrookie said:


> everyone seems to agree that handlng a small 22 is very good to learn (and fun) . .if i can steal one for cheap, i get to be on the water. learn from her until i grow out of it. sounds like a plan.
> 
> and i can keep looking around for a 30 footer in the same time ,since i did not brake the bank , no rush.
> 
> ...


If you can find one used (or really if you can't) a Seascape 18 would be very, very high on my list. Fantastic boats, decent price, and much more comfortable than something like the Catalina 22 to sail. With just enough cabin to sleep on if you choose. It also has a lifting keel so trailoring it is a piece of cake.


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## chip (Oct 23, 2008)

I wish I had a $60,000 budget for my third boat. 

I started out on a Catalina 22 also, and thought that it was just about perfect for me. I'm not sure how protected Gardiners Bay is though...it looks somewhat exposed, but I've never been there. Catalina 22's get increasingly less fun as wave heights build. I guess all boats do, but the C22 gets exciting quickly in any kind of sea. I'd talk to the locals about what they started out with to get an idea of the proper scale for your home waters.


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## chip (Oct 23, 2008)

Stumble said:


> a Seascape 18 would be very, very high on my list. Fantastic boats, decent price, and much more comfortable than something like the Catalina 22 to sail.


I think our ideas of comfort are very different. How are you supposed to make daiquiris when you're hiking out?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

If I wanted a learner boat I could cover some miles on, imight consider something with a keel. 

Something like a shark will be forgiving to learn on, okay for an over night for just you, and will be fun to race for years to come and still have $57000 left over when your bigger boat happens along.

Or you could go with something even smaller like suggested above.

Small boat sailing is fun.

Edit:. I'm not sure I agree a progression from small boat to big boat is any kind of logical progression, I think owning the best boat/boats for your needs/wants at any given time is a sensible progression.

However, I do agree it makes sense to learn on a smaller boat before going out and purchasing a large boat.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

scubadoo said:


> Moore 24 - Webb Chiles seems to like his "GANNET".
> 
> .....


Not sure that Webb Chiles is the right paradigm for most of us.. He sailed most of the way around the world solo on an 18 foot open yawl... 
DRASCOMBE LUGGER sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

hi there is a lots of 22 for less hen 5 k , but they are 30 years old, now do i have to expect to put a lots of money into them before going sailing , becuas eif tha tis the case then i may as well buy sometihng newer, justnot sure what is the life spam of a rig and the different hardware ect

also the they seems to all have outboard engine n this size range , so in this case how do i power and the few electronics on board. and recharge battery? 

thank you


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

here's some evening browsing for you... quite a selection between your broad criteria of a starter in the 22 foot range to mid 30s, all under your overall budget.

You'll see that you can spend pretty big $$$ on a pretty small boat, depending.
(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale

Yes, most small boats will be outboard powered. Many outboards have somewhat marginal charging circuits so it depends on the loads you expect to use. Solar has made great advances in recent years, and esp if you don't plan to support an actual fridge it may meet your needs much of the time.

All boats will need something done to bring them back. With small boats it will always cost less.

Nevertheless the search above (to 35 feet and $50K usd) gives you plenty to think about.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I haven't read the responses. I will when I can find some time. Having said that I offer the following:

Gardiner's Bay is a super place to sail. Lucky you! I sailed the region for more than 2 decades.

If you have a $60 K budget you don't need to get something small. You can get a tricked out ocean going 36' which you can single hand. If you are interested I can give you the lead. PM me or send me an email to jsandero at gee male dot calm 

My first and only boat was a 36' and I learned to sail in the waters you mention. I did this in mid life with no experience whatsoever. If I did it you can. I've sailed solo to and from the Caribe and all the way to Brazil.

Go for it!


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

thank you Sandero, i'll send you an email and we'll arrange for a sail in the bay once i'm set up
best.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Where on Gardiner's Bay? North fork, south fork, Shelter Island? 
Sag Harbor, 3 Mile Harbor, Montauk, Coecles Harbor, Greenport?
Really nice clean salt water there; great for sailing, swimming (in season) and fishing.
It can get a little bouncy there if the wind is up but you will figure it out.

And yes, boats under about 25' in length will mostly have outboard motors/propulsion.


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## longislandrookie (Feb 14, 2017)

hi Caleb , will be in east hampton,
really looking foward to those bouncy waves.


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## brett737cap (Dec 25, 2013)

My initial sailing experience was the ASA basic and advanced keelboat and bareboat charter courses. Before that I had never sailed. I caught the bug quick though and after completing the courses I initially bought a used Catalina 25 for $4500 on Craigslist. It was a great boat to learn on and gain experience, but I wouldn't take it out in very rough weather. I sailed it for about 2 years and then went up to a Morgan 41 Out Island. The Morgan was a great 2nd boat. Though many knock its sailing abilities (its no racer) it was heavy and had a gentle motion in high seas, it was easy to sail, and very forgiving. And it had a great cabin.... lots of room and very comfortable.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

You can get some very steep seas with a strong wind and counter current in the bay. Both the ebb and flood max have string currents. But on a typical SW it a reach between 3 mile harbor and big light... that's a delight!


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