# Sea Delivery from SFO to PNW how feasible?



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Some of the boats for sale that most interest my wife and I are located in the San Francisco Bay area. I have quotes now for trucking the boats in question up to the Pacific Northwest (PNW) and the trucking costs are steep, but might be do-able. 

The other option is to go for a BFS, or perhaps a "Big Freakin' Motor-Sail" BFMS up the CA, OR and WA coast and bring her home myself. I can get the time off of work to do it, and even if it was monotonous motoring, I would still enjoy the trip. My concern is that this patch of water is renown to be quite unfriendly and the trip would be "uphill" ie, against the prevailing winds and currents.

Anyone with more experience in this area care to comment on this proposed trip? Dangerous? Unpleasant? Just fine at the right time of year?

EDIT: I should add that the boats in question would be pilothouse sailboats with large fuel tanks (150+ gal) with inside steering stations. 

MedSailor


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

Nothing about that trip would be monotonous, you should expect very steep waves, 30-40 knots of wind and 30' seas. Don't count on the forecast staying the same more than a few hours. Think JULY


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Think truck.

Or go way outside - like Hawaii.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

jackdale said:


> Think truck.
> 
> Or go way outside - like Hawaii.


Jack, I was hoping you would chime in.  Why truck? Is the trip unsafe, too much reliance on motoring?

MedSailor


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> Jack, I was hoping you would chime in.  Why truck? Is the trip unsafe, too much reliance on motoring?
> 
> MedSailor


I have not done the trip.

I have a couple of friends who tried it. With the current and wind against it you, the ride is not great. As well between Cape Mendicino and Gray's Harbor, there is no bail out spots available as the harbors have bars and get closed during bad weather.

Both friends trucked up to Seattle. They did have smaller boats: Yamaha 33 and Islander 34 ketch.

Another friend did crew on a boat that made it up. He said it one of the worst experiences he has had.

I have heard of folks that went way out and succeeded, but I have not spoken with them.

On the other hand, boats do come up to Victoria from Portland for the Swiftsure, Vic Maui and Van Isle 360 races.

You might succeed with a good long weather window.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I've made the trip many times some 40+ years ago on commercial salmon/crab boats of around 50 feet. If you had the time to do short hops from wx window to wx window, it probably wouldn't be too bad a trip, but on the top (north) end of each wx window, you'd better not be late, unless you'd like to hone your bar running skills. Running a West Coast bar in a gale is truly one of the most exciting and fantastic adventures any 15 year old kid could have, but for anyone who can actually die, not so much.
With a pilothouse and a well found boat with a very reliable engine, I really wouldn't have too many qualms about just buckling down and taking the beating, if I had to, but there's no telling what damage you might do to the boat or what problems might arise, such as dirt in the fuel tanks, etc. Take twice what you might think were plenty of fuel filters, on a trip like that, with a new (to you) boat, anyway! Also, have storm boards made for your pilot house windows, should you decide to make this trip.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think that would be my biggest misgiving - aside from the probable discomfort - doing such a trip on a new-to-you-as-yet-unproven-with-who-knows-what-gremlins-will-pop-up boat. A boat that's been for sale for a while is bound to have been to some extent neglected.


Maybe a good litmus test would be to find a seller willing to accompany you on the trip!


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## Donald_Crowhurst (Jan 13, 2014)

how big of a boat are we talking about?
I'd consider going up if the boat were seaworthy, over 40ft and I had all the time in the world. I'd consider trucking if time were any sort of factor.
If you are considering it because you will save money, dont be so sure you'll be saving that much. You could get laid up somewhere, have engine or rigging problems, flights, etc etc on the way up the coast.

A typical owner delivery goes something like this
Owner gets his buddies to help him deliver his boat.
boat leaves (insert name of any port on west coast) and heads north. 
Weather gets nasty at some point.
Owners buddies bail on him at first possible opportunity because they are all sick or think they are going to die.
Boat sits at dock until owner figures out new plan.

I personally know boats that have left Santa Cruz on their way to SF and returned days later saying that they only made it a few miles up the coast. The weather can be very unpredictable and hairy. On the other hand some boats have been able to squeak through by having an open calendar and being able to move quickly taking opportunity of weather windows.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

capta said:


> Running a West Coast bar in a gale is truly one of the most exciting and fantastic adventures any 15 year old kid could have, but for anyone who can actually die, not so much.


Awesome. I love this.  Ahhh... to be immortal again. 

I think I would only consider this trip if I was sure the boat had clean fuel tanks, a good engine and preferably a dual racor fuel setup. While I can get the time off, I don't have all summer off, and would want to arrange crew, which creates dates and schedules. Schedules and dates would be my biggest worry as they may not coincide with the weather windows...

MedSailor


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

How it was explained to me is the upper and lower altitude high pressure areas that make up the “Pacific High” weather phenomena sit on top of each other on the eastern edge of the zone creating a funneling effect and concentrating the northerly winds along the coast. I’ve seen this area labeled as “Hurricane Alley” or “Hurricane Gulch” on some charts. I have been told that the best time to make the run north is in the fall when the “High” isn’t so well formed and the prevailing winds are down. If you make it down to the Bay, perhaps we can get together a quaff a pint or two.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

If you're considering the water route, why not take along an experienced skipper who can watch for the right weather conditions and hit it hard when things are looking good? I can provide a name for you. He's not cheap, but he's done this trip before and is very thorough in sending check lists on things to cover before you leave. Let me know and I can PM his info to you.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

jackdale said:


> I have not done the trip.
> 
> *Another friend did crew on a boat that made it up. He said it one of the worst experiences he has had.*


Damn... I would go in a heart beat. Just want to have the experience. Ok, it may be worse than going the infamous Thorny Path.


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## MikeGuyver (Dec 13, 2008)

I've made this tip twice in both directions. If you cannot wait till August-October, plan on taking it in short harbor hops with a close eye on weather. The bar entrances can get hairy even at slack tide but they are not so far apart that you can't plan 1-2 days between them. Going way out at this time of year only puts you in dangerous seas further from shore. Study Coast Pilot 7 and make sure you have good charts of each port. You will find cell coverage most of the way up but don't rely on it. If I am preparing for this trip I want the diesel tanks emptied, cleaned , inspected and refilled with NEW diesel .


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

I have two weeks off in August, that is the prime time to go. LMK


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

rockDAWG said:


> Damn... I would go in a heart beat. Just want to have the experience. Ok, it may be worse than going the infamous Thorny Path.


HAHA! Yes, I'll provide the sushi and video camera! 

Together we will create the most epic sailnet thread ever!!!

MedSailor


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

capta said:


> ----
> 
> Running a West Coast bar in a gale is truly one of the most exciting and fantastic adventures any 15 year old kid could have, but for anyone who can actually die, not so much.
> ----


Post of the month.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm going the opposite way than you. I'm going from anacortes to San Francisco. 

From what I have talked to people about my way is much easier but your way can be done. Especially in a big boat like that. Although it is supposed to be one of the potentially rougher voyages you can make in the mid latitudes. 

People are telling me there is a big shelf off the coast an in August if you stay 100 miles off the winds and seas that are 30+ near shore are a more manageable 20+ an the water is much warmer. 

There are a good few people on the cruisers forum that have done the trip. I mean one guy I was talking about lives in coos bay oregon. These people sail. It's doable. I think the consensus is just to stay 100 miles off and go. 

How much is a truck? I'm going to guess from pickup to drop off in anacortes $10000. Let me know what your plans are. I'll wave to you as we pass.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

We had three friends who tried to take a 44' boat from San Francisco to the PNW in April. They suffered through a miserable, cold, soggy, nasty, sick, wet, wild 36 hours before turning back, later re-doing the portlights and hatches (they learned the significance of opening ports that only dogged on the side opposite the hinge the hard way after everything in the boat got fire-hosed), and later changing plans to take the boat to Mexico for a year. It seems that a few days of a test sail out the Gate during active weather might do a lot to reality-test a planned delivery northward.
Second most dangerous item on a boat: Schedule. 
Most dangerous and failure-prone item on a boat: Nut that holds the steering wheel.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

What do you mean about the hatches. I'm confused, but think there is a lesson in there for me.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

As I recall (no guarantees!), our friend Dan had a Norseman 447 "Sophie" (I could be wrong about some details!), that had openable portlights/windows in the upper hull just a bit below the gunwales; these were hinged at the top and could be dogged with two dogs to seal the ports near the bottom corners. He had the boat for a year or more but likely had never sailed in extreme conditions for very long.

When they left San Francisco in the springtime, at a time that worked with his college son's schedule and another friend's availability [Warning: Schedule!!], they encountered strong winds and rough seas... I'm thinking on the order of 30 kts, 15' or higher combined swells and wind waves, short enough period to impart rather wild motion, lots of spray, bow going down deep into the water, one of the crew seasick and pretty much out of it for the count.

When the bow dove down into the waves, water would spurt into the boat through the top (hinge/undogged upper side) of the portlights/side hatches/small openable windows... when the hull was under water and stressed by motion, there was enough of a gap for a bit of water to shoot in at each dunking. That got just about everything inside the boat wet, including clothing, and was very nasty for crew morale and endurance. In other words, with wet foulies and clothes and no way to keep much of anything dry from the water spitting into the boat, they were rather literally hosed.

After maybe about 24-30 hours-ish of this sort of marvelous ride, they rapidly got to the point of having had quite enough fun and turned back to San Francisco. That's my recollection of the story told by one of the participants.

My takeaways... 
- you don't really know your boat until you've experienced it in relatively extreme conditions;
- shakedown trips need to have some "shake" in them; 
- maybe it isn't best to be short on crew and to challenge crew who are new to distance voyaging with a violent passage; 
- in rough stuff, dry clothing/foulies and a dry, warm sea berth are gold; 
- and schedules really are nasty, evil, vengeful, cursed beasties.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I havent done it but reseacrhed it a lot when I was in berkely, ca...my sister was in seattle at the time and thought It would be a cool trip

basically Im not a fan of hopping port to port unless you have a very big and reliable engine that can powerthrough a lot of this stuff

Im also a fan of staying off the coast...

I have always been told that the OREGON coast is the most dangerous or one of the most dangerous coast of north america...when it gets nasty its nasty and deadly so respect that.

I have also found out through some experience now that hopping port to port is almost never faster and certainly more expensive and tyring since you are doing so much more of everything...

anyways

good luck whatever you chose

It would be a great experience for me...wish I could add that to the list too!

peace


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

MedSailor said:


> HAHA! Yes, I'll provide the sushi and video camera!
> 
> Together we will create the most epic sailnet thread ever!!!
> 
> MedSailor



Hahaha... I should retire the name rockdawg and starting a new identity and learn to play nice and be a good lapdog. :laugher:laugher:laugher

Who know, if I kiss lot of asses I might become a moderator on Sailnet. Then I don't really have to go out sailing to gain experience.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Sailed that leg "Downhill" from Seattle to SFO. Not much fun.

Cruising Lealea Sailing the Pacific Coast


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> Hahaha... I should retire the name rockdawg and starting a new identity and learn to play nice and be a good lapdog.


Don't retire it. Embrace what happened and change it to RockDAWGSushi.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Rgscpat and Northoceanbeach

Excellent replies!!! Good info and I need to store it in my head.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

when one figures the prevailing current is to south, and prevailing winds are from nw to south, how does one configure comfort into this trip???
fly or put boat on truck.
they call it a bash. 
because is ALL uphill.
ye dont have to be stoopit to do it..some folks actually have a good passage with calm seas.....
even as far south as lost angeles, kali, the uphill bash is uncomfortable and wet. 
some folks like this. 
most dont.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

zeehag said:


> when one figures the prevailing current is to south, and prevailing winds are from nw to south, how does one configure comfort into this trip???
> fly or put boat on truck.
> they call it a bash.
> because is ALL uphill.
> ...


True dat. We met a fellow sailor headed North from SFO to SEA when we both ducked into Eureka. That was as far as he got that year.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

and i forgot to mention, medsailor, that our boats take this trip better than most due to their shape and style.... if you do this, let me know how it goes.... shouldnt be horrid if you choose a benign weather window. 
we are not as wet as the performance appearance group boats.
i averaged 1.2 kts uphill where water wasnt so big..but i had injector pump problems i was not advised about by my alleged mechanic.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Hahaha... I should retire the name rockdawg and starting a new identity and learn to play nice and be a good lapdog. :laugher:laugher:laugher
> 
> Who know, if I kiss lot of asses I might become a moderator on Sailnet. Then I don't really have to go out sailing to gain experience.


Or if you really, really, really start kissing ass, you can continue to hop on other peoples boats to gain the experience that is a WHOLE lot different when it is actually your ass (and boat) on the line. And if you really want a thrill, try throwing your children on a boat and making a few passages when you are the captain and have their lives on the line in addition to your own. Of course, then you lose the option of hailing the United States Navy or USCG when you don't like the captain and want to get off.

Best you carry an EPIRB.

Brian


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

I am old school. Actually it is far more burden to sail with other's boat. I tend to more conservative when captaining others boat. Just like driving other brand new 911, you don't want to go crazy. But with my own car, what the heck, pedal to the metal.

As for putting my children on the boat, I have no problem. For all the voyages I have done so far, if I don't have the confidence to take the boat to reach her destination, I would not go with or without my Children

You think you know me by using your own set of values. But I am not your average "you". I am different from you. I don't kick out my children out when they reach 18 yo and I pay for their education as high as they want to go. I take care my own mother. I don't let her to rely on her social security. I am NOT an average American. 

I have sailed with so many captains and owners in the last 5 years, I go back to sail their boat for many time more. I have impeccable track records. No, you hardly know me. Please stop judging me and let me alone. 

Thank you.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

and yet another thread that goes way off the side

Im missiing something I guess...thought this was about taking a boat up to the pnw since boats are more plentiful and better priced in sfo...

still the best place on the west coast to get awesome deals on boats

peace


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> I am old school. Actually it is far more burden to sail with other's boat. I tend to more conservative when captaining others boat. Just like driving other brand new 911, you don't want to go crazy. But with my own car, what the heck, pedal to the metal.
> 
> As for putting my children on the boat, I have no problem. For all the voyages I have done so far, if I don't have the confidence to take the boat to reach her destination, I would not go with or without my Children
> 
> ...


Dawg, I have no problem with you. I honestly do not. I think you got a bum ride on that race and primarily blamed the captain/owner as I stated openly. I think you screwed up too... but I still held the captain primarily responsible (again, go read the thread).

However, you took an unwarranted shot at a moderator which I assume was not me since I have raised my children on the water and we know little else. I am a but miffed why you did that. Be that as it may...

I am glad to see you participating here again. I hope you continue to. But quite frankly, you have struck me as someone with a chip on his shoulder the second he came in. Hopefully we can let it drop now and move on?

Brian


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

rockDAWG said:


> I am old school. Actually it is far more burden to sail with other's boat. I tend to more conservative when captaining others boat. Just like driving other brand new 911, you don't want to go crazy. But with my own car, what the heck, pedal to the metal.
> 
> I have sailed with so many captains and owners in the last 5 years, I go back to sail their boat for many time more.
> 
> Thank you.


Dawg,

FWIW I agree with you on this. Even though I own my own boat, I continue to sail on other people's boats. In the process, I contrinue to learn how different sailors handle various situations. Plus the experience teaches me about how different boats behave and are rigged, and sometimes, it simply gives me an opportunity to give back to others in this sport which has given me so much over the years.

Jeff


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Dawg, I have no problem with you. I honestly do not. I think you got a bum ride on that race and primarily blamed the captain/owner as I stated openly. I think you screwed up too... but I still held the captain primarily responsible (again, go read the thread).
> 
> However, you took an unwarranted shot at a moderator which I assume was not me since I have raised my children on the water and we know little else. I am a but miffed why you did that. Be that as it may...
> 
> ...


I am so sick of tired that the people here think that one must has the own lousy boat in order to know how to sail. Frankly in the last five years, I have proved there are many ways to learn how to sail without your own boat. In fact I outsailed many of you who have their boat for years. I worked on more engines, boat system than most of you. In your post, again you use Dave's trolling technique to instigate and hit me under the belt. It is totally uncalled for. It is hurtful.

No I don't have chip on my shoulder, it is "YOUR statement" that hurts people like me. Any body who has met me and sailed with me have nothing but praise for my work. In my last crewing, the owner gives me all the responsibility to sail the boat from Jamaica to FLL and now take her to Annapolis. I take care of hiring crew and all repairs for him. FRC cost $1.8mm in 2006. I am sure the owner is a smart man and knows the character of people. I am doubtful you can match of my performance and records.

As a moderator, you have a high standard to hold up. But yet you use your power to insult me. Just like Donna, telling people that I was uneducated and don't not know how to write English.

I came in peace but you tried to knock me down again. You cast your first stone at me. What do you expect me to do? If you don't like me, kick me out of the forum or leave me alone.

I am old school. I don't cast the first stone. But don't expect me to roll over and play death.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Dawg, 

Seriously?!?

This gets soooo tiresome.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

gamayun said:


> Dawg,
> 
> Seriously?!?
> 
> This gets soooo tiresome.


Sorry Man, I am tired too, trust me. It sucks all the fun out sailing. But somehow they don't leave me alone. This time is the moderator.

I am flying down tomorrow to FLL and sail to Annapolis. Get her ready to sail up to Maine, Nova Scoita and Newfoundland. If I am luck enough sail to England.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MedSailor, try searching LATITUDE 38's archives... I seem to recall they ran an excellent feature a few years ago on harbor-hopping north to the PNW, by someone who had done the trip numerous times, and had even written a self-published Cruising Guide to the CA coast, and perhaps further north if memory serves...

Sorry I can't recall more details, but I recall the guy really seemed to know his stuff...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

gamayun said:


> Dawg,
> 
> Seriously?!?
> 
> This gets soooo tiresome.


Oh man , ain't that the truth. More bloody whining than in a lost dawgs home. Tedious to say the least.

What I find amazing is the number of these numbats who wander around moaning about how us moderators are constantly picking on them, poor wee innocent cherubs that they are, yet even more amazing those same evil wicked nasty power mad *** moderators don't simply throw them off the site.

We've even had an instance in the past few weeks where one of these whiners straight faced lied in claiming that he had been threatened with being banned.

I'm beginning to think that some people simply have a desire for martydom.

*** please insert your own particular neurotic claim ... tea party hating US bashers is quite popular I believe.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

For what it's worth, I never called rockD uneducated. After he dissed everyone who doesn't have a college education I replied that there are many, many people who are in trade, the military, etc. doing very well without going to college and not the drain on society that he claimed they were. What he's probably referring to is how I also pointed out that his post extolling his own college education was so riddled with typos and bad grammar that I thought it was good that he had a secretary.

If that makes me a troll, so be it.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> I am so sick of tired that the people here think that one must has the own lousy boat in order to know how to sail. Frankly in the last five years, I have proved there are many ways to learn how to sail without your own boat. In fact I outsailed many of you who have their boat for years. I worked on more engines, boat system than most of you. In your post, again you use Dave's trolling technique to instigate and hit me under the belt. It is totally uncalled for. It is hurtful.
> 
> No I don't have chip on my shoulder, it is "YOUR statement" that hurts people like me. Any body who has met me and sailed with me have nothing but praise for my work. In my last crewing, the owner gives me all the responsibility to sail the boat from Jamaica to FLL and now take her to Annapolis. I take care of hiring crew and all repairs for him. FRC cost $1.8mm in 2006. I am sure the owner is a smart man and knows the character of people. I am doubtful you can match of my performance and records.
> 
> ...


I think I'll let Spike Africa say it for me; "Any IDIOT can make a boat go,"
Counting miles at sea does not mean you are a competent mariner. I'm certain I know sea cooks with more miles at sea than you have, but at least, they do not think themselves knowledgeable enough to run a vessel.
As for having an owner who lets you run his gazillion dollar boat, well, there a lot of owners out there who have lost their boats because they chose the wrong captain.
I am truly surprised, with all your miles at sea, that you have yet to be humbled by her.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Not that I mod on here, but time to delete the OLD bickering and continue with what the thread should be about, sailing up the west/left coast of the US, be it good or bad.......

Just a person that mods on two other forums opinion.......not that my opinion smells any better than a wombat opinion, will leave the wombet out of this here disCUSSion as the mrs might not like knowing her opinion can smell like the rest of us! 

Thank you

Marty


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Good people, I know this is dragging the thread off topic but given RD's complaints I figure its best to address the matter here. 

Firstly it is my belief that the disagreement between DRF and RD occurred before Donna became a moderator. If true, and I believe I am correct in saying that, then it is monumentally unfair for you RD to complain about a moderator picking on you when they were not at the time a moderator. 

Secondly I have had the odd run in with RD in PRWG. Suffice it to say that we are poles apart on matters political and probably a whole lot of other areas as well. I don't believe I have ever banned RD but obviously enough if I did then it was only a short term holiday. Be that as it may disagreements over PRWG should not carry over into the Sailing Forums and I certainly do not believe I have ever harried RD in one of the Sailing forums, other than e.g in this thread where he is insistant on carrying on about moderator interference when there was in fact no interference at all. It was RD who bought up the subject yet when challenged on his claims he goes and gets all sulky on us. FFS.

Dawg. I reckon you are probably an Anarchist so do as any good Anarchist should and HTFU. 

People can and do disagree vehemently about religion and politics yet can still be on good terms. In the real world SailNetter Classic30 and I are mates. He's a good bloke and we can spend plenty of time in each other's company despite the fact that I am a left leaning atheist and he and his good lady wife are right leaning Christians. Get us onto the subject of religion or politics and we'll fight like cats and dogs but on the subject of sailing no worries. (well other than that he has this strange fixation with worm food.)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

As is often the case you are quite correct Marty. End of Off Topic discussion in this thread. If anyone wants to kick off a "lets give a moderator a damn good thrashing" thread then please do so .... but in OT methinks.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

DRFerron said:


> For what it's worth, I never called rockD uneducated. After he dissed everyone who doesn't have a college education I replied that there are many, many people who are in trade, the military, etc. doing very well without going to college and not the drain on society that he claimed they were. What he's probably referring to is how I also pointed out that his post extolling his own college education was so riddled with typos and bad grammar that I thought it was good that he had a secretary.
> 
> If that makes me a troll, so be it.


I'm always amused by people who are snobbish about college degrees. There is a huge difference between intelligence and schooling. Some of the dumbest people I have ever known had full on thermometers after their names.

If you doubt this, get to know some of the faculty at a university - especially the ones who have never left the August Halls, going from student to T/A to prof without once stepping into the real world.

An uncle of mine owned an extremely successful engineering firm. I once asked him if he hired PhD. engineers. His answer? "Hell no, they spend so much time telling you how smart they are that they never get much done."


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Med, I'm sorry this thread went so far afield. To the extent that my attempt at a joke early on contributed to that, I am sorry. I hope it will get back on topic now - I was enjoying reading about your planning. It sounds like a heck of a trip, and one that I'm surprised by. I thought the Pacific got its name because it was peaceful; apparently the NW region of the Pacific isn't aware of its name.

How goes the search for a hauler? Or did you decide to go the water route? I know that when we bought our boat (smaller, much less expensive than yours!) we contemplated having it trucked versus sailing it. I ran into logistical issues because the boat was about 2 hours from any airport or train station (Deltaville, VA), and nobody would rent a car one way. We wound up hiring a captain to deliver her part way (near Annapolis), and then did the rest of the trip ourselves (with time out for repairs that made themselves necessary when the captain had her). We paid about $1000 for the captain for 3 days, including his transportation costs. I think the rest of the trip cost me about $400, not including the cost of my time off. So, all told, let's ballpark it at $1500 (including meal and transportation costs for the "crew"). I never looked into the actual cost to have her hauled that far, but I'm pretty sure it was at least double what I actually paid. I learned a lot about the boat, and my abilities (or lack thereof), on that short trip.

Of course, we got lucky. We had a perfect weather window (well, not quite, we motored into a rain storm the first day, and into headwinds the second day, but it wasn't THAT bad either day), and we didn't get pinned down at a marina for a week or two. If we had, the costs would have gone up significantly, and would have started to approach the cost of the haul. I think if I were planning a trip like yours, I'd probably pull some historical weather info for the past 3-4 years (at least) for the months I was considering, this way I could start to get a sense of how long the weather windows typically last, and how far apart they typically are. Then I'd figure out how far I could go during each window, and plot that on the map/chart. I'd then factor in the cost of a transient slip at each of those stopping points for however long the gaps were between weather windows, plus an extra few days. I'd also look at the cost of schlepping myself and my crew back and forth however many times it took to get me "home". Then I'd compare that to how much it costs to trailer the boat. If it's close (I'll leave it up to you to decide what "close" means) then I'd hire the trailer. Yes, it would be great to do a shakedown cruise. But I saw first-hand what can happen the first few days with a new boat. Trust me, you'd rather have her break down at/near home than 4-6 hours (or more) away. Plus, even if she IS in pristine condition, you'll get the chance to use your vacation time to enjoy her, rather than testing her, and your, limits. At least that's my humble opinion.

Again, I'm looking forward to hearing how this progresses.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jim, 

The issue from what I can see, not having done this, is safe marina's are few and far between up the left coast vs the right coast. If you are under 65', from what I can tell, one can motor all the way up the coast without being in the true Atlantic ocean! 

We've got miles of rock, make that old dried lava for the most part that is 1-200' high in many areas along the coast. If you lose it, you're screwed! Then throw in what the columbia can do even 30-50 miles off shore from its current, along with waves going against said current..... Will swag 50% of the washington coast is a National park or equal where there is not much habitation, other than some Puffin's that local ski area's like to not allow......never seen a real puffin smoke, but they do not allow them on the hills.....

But I digress......

I would truck, or get the floating boat to haul it up from LA to Vancouver Island as some friend of mine did. They bought a 54' Hampton Trawler, cost was about the same to get it up here, be it truck, hire a captain or motor themselves, or have the floating boat bring it up. They choose the float boat, as it worked out in there favor for many reasons shapes and forms. BUT< it has to go from the US to another country, hence why it drops things off north of Victoria on the island. I'm recalling the cost being around 10-12K for this rig to get up here.

marty


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

People want to be moderators ? I thought it was like going to the bathroom during a meeting and returning to discover you've been "elected" chairman.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Why don't you give Dudley transport a call and get a quote? I bet a Red Hook it's cheaper then sailing it back to the PNW.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

I believe there is a guy here on Sailnet, Charlie Cobra, who has written about doing this as a delivery captain. You should try contacting him.

I lived in Oregon for 3 years and consider the entire coastline to be one of the more inhospitable ones to sail along in all the U.S. There are only a handful of places to bail out, and most of those you wouldn't want to come near with any sort of swell. In a blow you really have no options but to remain at sea. I'd never want to do anything more than an out and back daysail in good conditions on the OR coast.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Mary, thanks for the feedback. You can see my ignorance of the NW Pacific coast. I've day sailed out of the LA area a few times, and that's it.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

There's a reason it's called "The Graveyard of the Pacific".


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A small sampling:

Olympic Coast - Shipwreck Map


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

I was considering doing exactly what you are planning last year.
I ended up finding the boat I wanted in Portland rather than California.
I sailed it up myself. with my son. it was a great trip but very tiring with just 2 crew sailing into the wind all the way up the coast.

From California up the coast is certainly possible.

The hardest bit was all the travelling up and down to get the boat ready. 
Don't listen to all the nay sayers who would have you believe there are sea monsters and dragons. 

Be prepared for a trip to windward against strong 20 to 30 knot winds. a lot of motering


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks again all for the thoughts so far. Mods, if you need this space to air some laundry, go right ahead. All are welcome. We can work around you. 

Here is my thought process so far.

The quote for trucking the boat is $5,500. If I have them pull the sticks at SFO that'd be another 2k or so. Up here, where I could help more with the rigging, maybe only $500 to put the sticks back on. That's 8K to bring the boat up, or about 10% of the expected purchase price.

Costs of motoring it up myself (I'd be lucky to sail much if any of the route) would be about 250gal of diesel, plus renting a car to come down to the boat with crew, care and feeding of crew, marina fees on the way, and incidentals.

Hard to estimate what the cost of all that would be, but I'd say it could be as little as 2K or really high if I have a bad experience with my new boat like Jimgo did and get stranded (thanks for the reminder).

Part of me wants to do the trip for the experience, and part of me would like to do it to save money. Uncomfortable is relative, and with the wife and kid safely at home, and only hardcore types brought aboard, I wouldn't have to worry about other's comfort as I do with the family. We're also talking fully enclosed pilothouse boats here with Webasto heaters, so it's not exactly like standing on deck of a Volvo Challenge boat...

Hiring a captain to do the trip doesn't make any sense to me. They're about $400/day plus expenses. Figure 10 days, plus fuel food and expenses, most will want at least one more crew $150/day and now we're looking at all the cost of trucking AND all the wear and tear of a trip. Bringing a captain along with me as crew has no appeal.

JohnEisberg, thanks for the obscure reference to the Latitude 38 article. I did find Mr. George M. Benson and his book Cruising the Northwest Coast (which is on order) before your post, but it is great advice all the same. He apparently challenges the conventional wisdom that there are no ports over here and he took his Coronodo 25 and sailed it from LA to the PNW over 48 days and stayed overnight in 21 different spots. I look forward to seeing what he has to say...

One of my biggest concerns is the schedule. I will only be able to get so much time off, and the more people you invite, the more schedules you have to honor. If I end up with too tight a schedule, bad things could happen. One option that may be appealing is to go for it, and if I don't make it all the way, hire a captain to finish the trip.

Chuck (Vega 1860) nice to see you back here. It's been a while since I've checked in on your youtube channel. I'll have to go back there. I vividly remember you getting stuck in the Straits of Juan de Fuca for a while hove to in a gale and also getting stuck on the Cali coast.... I may need to re-watch those videos for a reality check. Pancakes... I'm craving pancakes too.... 

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Today's Oregon Coast weather forecast. Looks good to me...

PZZ250-255-270-275-052245-
COASTAL WATERS FROM CAPE SHOALWATER WA TO CASCADE HEAD OR OUT
10 NM-COASTAL WATERS FROM CASCADE HEAD TO FLORENCE OR OUT 10 NM-
WATERS FROM CAPE SHOALWATER WA TO CASCADE HEAD OR FROM 10 TO
60 NM-WATERS FROM CASCADE HEAD TO FLORENCE OR FROM 10 TO 60 NM-
845 AM PDT SAT APR 5 2014

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY FOR WINDS IN EFFECT UNTIL 7 PM PDT THIS
EVENING...

TODAY
S WIND 20 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 4 FT. W SWELL 8 FT AT
11 SECONDS. RAIN.

TONIGHT
SW WIND 10 TO 15 KT WITH GUSTS TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES
3 FT. W SWELL 7 FT AT 11 SECONDS. RAIN LIKELY IN THE EVENING...
THEN CHANCE OF SHOWERS AFTER MIDNIGHT.

SUN
SW WIND 5 KT...BACKING TO S IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES
2 FT. W SWELL 7 FT AT 11 SECONDS. CHANCE OF SHOWERS IN THE
MORNING.

SUN NIGHT
SW WIND 5 TO 10 KT WITH GUSTS TO 15 KT... BECOMING
SE AFTER MIDNIGHT. WIND WAVES 2 FT. W SWELL 5 FT AT 11 SECONDS.
SECONDARY SWELL W 5 FT.

MON
SE WIND 5 KT...VEERING TO SW TO 5 KT IN THE AFTERNOON.
WIND WAVES 1 FT. W SWELL 6 FT AT 13 SECONDS. SECONDARY SWELL W
5 FT.

MON NIGHT
W WIND 5 TO 10 KT...BACKING TO S WITH GUSTS TO
15 KT AFTER MIDNIGHT. WIND WAVES 2 FT. W SWELL 7 FT AT
15 SECONDS.

TUE
SW WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 3 FT. W SWELL 7 FT.

WED
N WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 3 FT. W SWELL 7 FT.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

MedSailor said:


> Costs of motoring it up myself (I'd be lucky to sail much if any of the route) would be about 250gal of diesel, plus renting a car to come down to the boat with crew, care and feeding of crew, marina fees on the way, and incidentals.
> MedSailor


Seems like you have a pretty good handle on this trip, but I would suggest that you at least double your expected fuel consumption. Pounding into head seas is not economical, fuel wise.
As for "care and feeding of crew" as a retired delivery skipper, I would suggest you work from a fixed figure of dollars per person, per day on food and drink. 
If you were to say $25.00 per day per person for a crew of 4, then you could estimate that cost pretty closely for a ten day voyage at a grand. Doing so, you could eliminate the extravagant specialty items some people expect when someone else is paying for food, because it's out of budget, you could explain. If not, then I'll have caviar, Dom Pérignon (because Coke has too much caffeine) and fois gras every day at 16:00, sharp, please captain.
I hope you have a really great trip.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

FWIW, an old family friend built a Maple Leaf 42 from a hull and deck, then he and his wife sailed it from Vancouver to Mexico and back.

They harbour hopped the trip back and he said it was no problem.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

July through mid September. We fished the boat below out of San Francisco. Routinely got the "stuffing" kicked out of us. Made four round trips, SF to Victoria on a Destroyer Escort, got the "Stuffing" kicked out of us. 

If you go, suggest you have LOTS of time & harbor hop.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Med, I see your boat is listed on YW. 

Have you picked a successor?

If so, what is it?


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> Med, I see your boat is listed on YW.
> 
> Have you picked a successor?
> 
> If so, what is it?


Thanks for letting me know. I spoke to my broker a couple hours ago and he didn't say anything about the add being up. Must be freshly minted! I'll have to go over there and see it, as I haven't seen the add myself yet.

Here she is: Medsailor's boat for sale She sure cleaned up nice. Almost don't want to sell her now. I'm at least going to have to take her out for a couple more sails while she's in such pristine condition!

Well as for a sucessor, there WERE 2 strong candidates in SFO that we were going to go look at 1 week from today. One of them sold this week after being on the market for 2 years. I just found out a couple hours ago as we were trying to make an appointment to see her.  For now, the contenders will remain close to the vest lest I jinx something!

MedSailor


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## MikeGuyver (Dec 13, 2008)

This is not an area to be trifled with. If you NEED to move a boat through this part of the world be VERY cautious. If you think you want to move your boat through this area, especially in winter, TRUCK it, or wait a few months, our Coast Guard has enough to worry about without a bunch of "Sunday Sailors" risking their lives to save a couple bucks .Pay attention to weather. This is not where the "yachties" come to play. This is where people are killed every year because they are just too damn stupid or arrogant to understand how dangerous it really is. Pull your head out of your ass and wake up.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

MikeGuyver said:


> This is not an area to be trifled with. If you NEED to move a boat through this part of the world be VERY cautious. If you think you want to move your boat through this area, especially in winter, TRUCK it, or wait a few months, our Coast Guard has enough to worry about without a bunch of "Sunday Sailors" risking their lives to save a couple bucks .Pay attention to weather. This is not where the "yachties" come to play. This is where people are killed every year because they are just too damn stupid or arrogant to understand how dangerous it really is. Pull your head out of your ass and wake up.


Really? Is that how I'm coming across? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you haven't read the whole thread here. I'm not talking about going in the winter. 

All this "thar be dragons talk" reminds me of what I've heard about the west coast of Vancouver island. Been offshore out there twice for a couple days each time. Each time it was a milk pond, and it was the middle of summer. Can it get nasty up there too? Sure, I believe that, but can it be placid? Yup, I've seen it.

MedSailor


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

oshitthe dragonbs opnly come out in el niño yrears and the monsters are the rest of the time. geez, guys.. there be a monster inloch ness... good grief.
weather windows happen . gods love sailboats..... eiyther to eat or to use as pawn in this chess game of life, if thar is how ye feel..llordy dont leave.... lol...
worst coast, left coaest, lee shore madness, uphill bash..wtf....is a wet wild ride. if you have a sailor friend who has made ocean passages, bring that soul with ye.... harbor hop. 
make plans inclusive of ALL the ports and harbbors on the way. there are many .. if some have breaking seas at entrance, either wait them out, or become the next halleluja picture going into morro bay on a surf mission....
so rockdawg cannot write. neither can i. rodlmffao...
i cannot typo, so there....
but5, with a decent weather window the bickering and arguing wiill stop and decent sailing may just happen.
or you may have to motor the entire way. it is either killer heavy or dead calm out in pacific.... not many in betweeens...
just research and go. 
remember it is uphill on a lee shore. no problem. stay out 60 miles for less chop. 
go. have fun and research the weather for a couple weeks before going so you see what you have ahead of ye.

the rest of ye..hshadddap and read his fun trip,,,or mayhem..whichever the seadogs grant the sailor. err, seagods....


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

When discussing this plan with potential crew, the issue of running at night came up. My original thought was that yes, we should run at night as to make the most ground in as short a time as possible and to minimize exposure to weather. Also, there is a schedule, (bad thing) and I can't take 3 months to do the trip, so this being a delivery, I was thinking go go go....

The objection came from the point (and a good one at that) that there is a lot of floating debris in our part of the world. 40ft long longs 1ft in diameter are common, and I've clocked on on my Formosa 41 at full speed (with no damage) before. The boat in question doesn't have a prop in an apeture and has a modified fin "cruising keel" and a strong hull. I don't fear a hull breach from hitting something, but folding over a prop blade is possible.

Anchoring each night seems to be to add a considerable amount of time to the trip. It's not as though you can just pull over an stop anywhere on the coast so you have to pick your anchorages and you may arrive early thus cutting short your daylight running hours. Also going inland and back out to sea each day, weighing the anchor etc would all add up quickly I would think.

What do you think of the idea of just running slower at night. Continuing to make good speed north, but reducing the potential for damage if something is hit? 

MedSailor


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Wouldn't a prop spinning at 1000 RPM or so still get a lot of damage? That is, isn't the damage likely to be from the spinning of the prop, not the speed of the vessel? If you hit a log and it wrecks the transmission or part of the engine, what then?

Yes, the rest of the boat is likely to sustain less damage. But if your concern was the prop, I'm not sure that slowing down would do a whole lot for you.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

jimgo said:


> Wouldn't a prop spinning at 1000 RPM or so still get a lot of damage? That is, isn't the damage likely to be from the spinning of the prop, not the speed of the vessel? If you hit a log and it wrecks the transmission or part of the engine, what then?
> 
> Yes, the rest of the boat is likely to sustain less damage. But if your concern was the prop, I'm not sure that slowing down would do a whole lot for you.


My line of thinking is that if you hit something floaty at a slow speed, you brush it aside and doesn't contact the prop. If you hit something at high speed, your chances of forcing it down under the boat, and hitting the prop are higher.

If you imagine hitting a log at 1 knot, you can imagine how the log wouldn't go under the boat but would be pushed aside. If you hit it at 7 knots, it might go under.

Of course one knot is more like heaving-to under motor, so picking the right speed would be critical for this to work.

MedSailor


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

MedSailor said:


> What do you think of the idea of just running slower at night. Continuing to make good speed north, but reducing the potential for damage if something is hit?
> 
> MedSailor


Having sailed through a lot of junk in the water, we always reduce sail at night. While we have never made that particular trip (Northward), and would not do so by choice, we would make it in one offshore jump.

The easy sailing route is via Hawaii and around the edge of the High with fair winds pretty much all the way. Too bad you don't have three months for the trip. We sailed from SFO to Sitka AK that way in 2012 but stopped for a season in Hawaii. 

It is nice to take your time.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

MedSailor said:


> When discussing this plan with potential crew, the issue of running at night came up. My original thought was that yes, we should run at night as to make the most ground in as short a time as possible and to minimize exposure to weather. Also, there is a schedule, (bad thing) and I can't take 3 months to do the trip, so this being a delivery, I was thinking go go go....
> 
> The objection came from the point (and a good one at that) that there is a lot of floating debris in our part of the world. 40ft long longs 1ft in diameter are common, and I've clocked on on my Formosa 41 at full speed (with no damage) before. The boat in question doesn't have a prop in an apeture and has a modified fin "cruising keel" and a strong hull. I don't fear a hull breach from hitting something, but folding over a prop blade is possible.
> 
> ...


Honestly, getting close enough to the coast to anchor each night, on that coast, is just insanity (please, I mean no offense). I wouldn't consider making that northbound trip at under 20 miles offshore these days (with electronic navigation available) and more like 40, in case of an emergency. Losing power there would be hours for help to arrive, before you were in danger.
There certainly are a lot of logs and what not up in the Seattle area, but not so much offshore to worry about. In anything but a flat calm, you just aren't likely to see an obstruction floating just under the surface, like a log does, even in daylight. The trash from Japan is also of some concern, but if you are going to make this trip, you just have to trust to your good luck, if you have some. Fill the black box to the very top, before you go and squeeze a bit more in there as you travel.
There are no great captains who do not have good luck that accompanies them.


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## TerryBradley (Feb 28, 2006)

Made the trip down the coast from Bremerton to San Diego on the CVN Stennis. I remember passing the Columbia River outlet. Can't say how far offshore we were but in that area the sea really rocked the boat! I can only imagine what it would be like in a small craft.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Experienced people have told me the Columbia still affects the sea state more than 100 miles offshore.


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## Rover33 (Mar 10, 2013)

If you must do this trip on a schedule, reconsider.

We used to sail out of Coos Bay, Oregon, and our boat is currently in Wrangell, Alaska. When we both worked, and had schedules to keep, we got into some nasty weather moving up and down the Oregon and Washington coasts. When we retired, and no longer had a schedule, it was much easier.

We have met a number of circumnavigators who said that the weather off the northwest coast was the worst of their entire voyage.

Given the time to wait for good weather windows, it can be pretty straightforward, though it is always cold.


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## Freedom007 (May 18, 2012)

I have made this trip multiple times. Boats have been 29 ft to 41 ft. Not counting the 6 times I have taken my 32 ft boat up. I would not recommend going up before mid May as the the weather is still too unpredictable. Prevailing winds are from the s to sw till then or early June so you can get a good push. However you might run into a storm from the north that can make it very rough. The folks that do the swift sure head up early May and nearly all ways get a bit of a beating. The Bar crossings are really not that bad in good weather but in bad there is NO crossing them. Coast guard will tell you not to try it and they will not come to rescue you if you attempt against their advise. I have gone up the close route and as far out as 150 NM. It can be a fun trip.


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## Freedom007 (May 18, 2012)

Wanted to add also I have been caught off the wash coast twice in horrendous storms. Stayed off shore far enough to lay ahull and just hang on. 50 knt sustained winds an 15-18 ft seas. Worst part was not being able to make coffee !!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Trucks on the I5 are your friend.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> Trucks on the I5 are your friend.


I dunno, friends that charge that much to hang out with you are more like an entourage.

Trucks are seriously being considered. It also depends on what price I can get and when the deal can close, and how much of a window I can get. Some kind of schedule must be a factor because I can't retire yet (darn!). I can try and make the window really big and at the right time of year though.

Medsailor


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

If you are considering a schedule to deliver it on its own bottom, remember that a calendar is the most dangerous thing on any boat.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Med, I'll admit to looking at this too hard, but is there a halfway point that might work? Sail it part way so you get the adventure you want, then truck it the rest of the way. Maybe stop in Eureka, Crescent City, or Coos Bay and have it trucked from there?


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

jimgo said:


> Med, I'll admit to looking at this too hard, but is there a halfway point that might work? Sail it part way so you get the adventure you want, then truck it the rest of the way. Maybe stop in Eureka, Crescent City, or Coos Bay and have it trucked from there?


Actually yes, that is plan B. What I think I can arrange is about 14-18 days off in a row. I can bring 2 competent crew who are retired (no calendars). It's a 48hr run, by my guesstimate to crescent city and probably just over that much to grays harbor. Both would be good bail out points to either come back another day and continue the delivery, or to hire a skipper to finish it for me. Or, have a truck pick it up part of the way.

I'd like to think that I can get lucky enough to have one or more 2 day weather windows in a 2-2.5 week period. We'll see....

MedSailor


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> When discussing this plan with potential crew, the issue of running at night came up. My original thought was that yes, we should run at night as to make the most ground in as short a time as possible and to minimize exposure to weather. Also, there is a schedule, (bad thing) and I can't take 3 months to do the trip, so this being a delivery, I was thinking go go go....
> 
> The objection came from the point (and a good one at that) that there is a lot of floating debris in our part of the world. 40ft long longs 1ft in diameter are common, and I've clocked on on my Formosa 41 at full speed (with no damage) before. The boat in question doesn't have a prop in an apeture and has a modified fin "cruising keel" and a strong hull. I don't fear a hull breach from hitting something, but folding over a prop blade is possible.
> 
> ...


Depending on how far off shore you plan to go, I believe there is a lot of ship & barge traffic, north & south bound. Radar & AiS would help but my experience of running at night out of San Francisco, in the boat below, without either, was scary at best. One night we were pre-occupied with very rough conditions and were nearly run down. If the ship saw us, they didn't care, no whistle, nothing.

Tanker Owners Admit Evidence Indicates Ship Hit Fishing Boat - Los Angeles Times

Even in daylight, they can close on you very quickly.

Paul T


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I still vote sail it. 

If you do it partway, once you're in crescent city or wherever, you won't want to bail. 
also, it will not save you any money to have a truck come to crescent city or eureka. That in the trucking boonies. There are a lot of trucking companies that do boats that go between the Bay Area and Seattle. I have talke to some. Between those two points you're right where they are and on major interstates. It's a straight shot. To get them to come over some crazy back road into crescent city is going to cost a hefty premium, if you're going to truck. Truck from the Bay Area. 

If you don't want to sail it up, spend a couple weeks cruising down to Monterey and back, or go up the Sacramento River delta and enjoy the warm dry weather. It will be fun to try a new cruising ground in relative safety before going back to the familiar pnw.


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## Mycroft (Sep 27, 2013)

When I bought my 43ft double-ender last September in SFO, sailing her up was not an option for a number of reasons.

As a side benefit of having the sticks off, it gave an opportunity to give consideration to more easily replace nav lights with LED, sensors with NMEA2k, and radar. Just something to consider. In our case we also took the opportunity to replace the chainplates and standing rigging.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Welcome to SailNet, Mycroft.


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## Mycroft (Sep 27, 2013)

Thank you Donna.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Med,

If you sail/motor it up, let us know how it went, maybe some pictures?

Paul T


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