# Any ideas on this Hooka type dive compressor system?



## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
We are anchored in La Cruz Anchorage in Banderas Bay, Mexico and it is very active echo system. Every two weeks or sooner we need to clean our bottom; we have a 36' boat. admittedly we are in die need of a bottom job which we will get done in September (off season rates).









We have been using a dive tank and an old hooka yellow hose with a regulator that was given to us. We connected that to a stage one and then use a div tank on deck. We need to dinghy in the tank and take it for re-fill which is not easy every two weeks or so.









The problem is the dive tank air gets used up quickly. There is no solution for this that I am willing to do, like holding my breath etc.









You can see the dive tank up on the starboard side.
It could be the regulator on the yellow hose is a low pressure regulator for a hooka setup. About say 30 pis regulator and the tank is much higher so air is getting out even when we are not breathing. Any way this is not diving forum so I will skip all that and just say we want to get rid of the tank. But it is a money thing.
We have plenty of solar power on the boat so we would like to use a 12v compressor to supply endless amounts of air at a price we can afford, we are retired and on a small fixed income.









We have found one Hooka type setup we think may work fine. We could sell our current system here in Mexico where the prices are high for dive equipment to recover some of the costs.

This system can be had with a 35' hose, regulator and compressor. Uses 10 amps and is affordable. We can clean most of the bow are with a snorkel so 35' seems enough. We do the keel are and zincs and prop with the tank the rest we get with a snorkel.

So after all this does anyone have any experience with this system?

_ "*mask not included For those wanting to use a more conventional regulator a Promate regulator is included. 12v Hookah diving air compressor Power:120w 12V Weight: 9 lb *battery not included Lightweight aluminum with easy carry handle Uses our long life, oilless, efficient, DC motor designed for clean breathing. One of the advantages of this system is the low power draw of 10 amps of safe 12v DC current. With the average deep cycle marine battery you will have enough power for all day use. Also you can put the compressor and battery on a float and not be encumbered by the length of the hose. Satisfaction Guaranteed. Rated for 5 meters of depth. 25 ft (35 ft available add upgrade to cart) diving dedicated , food grade hookah hose, brass direct screw connection to air compressor Nose clip and ear plugs included. With this kit you will be swimming with the fishes! Please leave feedback and please tell your friends. International Customers give a minimum 6-10 business days for arrival."_The system seems like it should do the job we are wanting it for, cleaning the bottom of our boat.

12v Electric Hookah DIVING KIT WITH PROMATE REGULATOR
Thank you,
Chip


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

On the face of this, these things occur to me:

--What pressure tank are you using? I'm fat and don't have good breathing skills and I got probably 3-4 bottom cleanings out of my 3000lb tank
--Are there possibly leaks in the pressure gauge on your 1st stage there, or maybe elsewhere in your hose system? Is that regulator not hooked directly to the yellow (long) hose, so you have another possibility of a connection leakage?

My rig is a single 50' hose run directly from regulator to first stage. I have a tiny little gauge right there at the first stage, no hose and big gauge rig like that. 

If you change over to your suggested system, (I've never heard of 'promate,') you'll have to tote around either a battery of some sort or have some pretty long wires to get power to the compressor, yes?

I think Fstbottoms is here, he has had good suggestions for bottom cleaning rigs in the past, see if you can get him online


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

The 12-volt hookah system you linked to is really more of a pool toy than anything else. I suspect that it will be overtaxed, trying to deliver you a comfortable air supply while you are doing physical labor underwater.

BTW- hull cleaning without wearing a hood is probably not a good idea (as per your pic.)


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

Whatever happened to that post about using an 120vdc 'oil less' pancake compressor? Would that work for you here? Check the 'Gear & Maint' section? My 02.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

BTW- I did a quick Google search for the compressor in the "Diving USA" setup. I found the identical item all over ebay. It is a fish pond/aquarium pump and looks like it sells for about $70 new. The OP already has pretty much everything else he would be getting if he bought the complete Diving USA hookah, so why spend the additional $300 dollars?


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Multihullgirl said:


> --What pressure tank are you using? I'm fat and don't have good breathing skills and I got probably 3-4 bottom cleanings out of my 3000lb tank
> --Are there possibly leaks in the pressure gauge on your 1st stage there, or maybe elsewhere in your hose system? Is that regulator not hooked directly to the yellow (long) hose, so you have another possibility of a connection leakage?


 Our tank reads 2000 when it is full.

We had a first stage with
Line to dive vest
Line to regulator
Tank gauge

We left the tank gauge and removed the two others. Then we attached the yellow hose and plugged the other. That was it. 
Yes we may have leaks.

It is a money and convince thing. We can put the old system back together, regulator and dive vest hose and tank gauge with stage one and sell it and the tank. Then we can sell the yellow Hooka hose and regulator. That will give us some pesos for something else. Not a lot but a regular 12v dive system is 3 times what they want for this little system.

We go down 5 1\2 feet to the bottom of the boat and that is it. Not as deep as a pool. But then again the mention of working while under water and this pump not handling it is a concern.

Another issue is filling the tank south of Puerto Vallarta. Not likely or easy.
Although with 3-4 bottom cleanings the tank could take us to Hualtulco and back next cruising season after we get a bottom job.










OK why a hood? I wear cotton in my ears after getting a tiny crab in one of my ears a while back. It was a bugger to get out.
We just got out of the water and rinsed off a lot of little crabs from cleaning the water line, they like the bottom of the boat.
The water is clean and fairly clear. Some skates and other critters but they keep clear of my wife and I.
Chip


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Fstbttms said:


> BTW- I did a quick Google search for the compressor in the "Diving USA" setup. I found the identical item all over ebay. It is a fish pond/aquarium pump and looks like it sells for about $70 new. The OP already has pretty much everything else he would be getting if he bought the complete Diving USA hookah, so why spend the additional $300 dollars?


 That's a good question. For say $100.00 USD with shipping and then a friend bring it down I could afford to make a mistake. 
A pond/aquarium pump does not sound very enticing 
And I guess I searched using the wrong search words!
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanDiegoChip said:


> OK why a hood? I wear cotton in my ears after getting a tiny crab in one of my ears a while back. It was a bugger to get out.


Why a hood? Because as you found out, the stuff you knock off the bottom of your boat can end up in your ears. And shoving something into your ear canal and then going diving is an equally bad idea.

This is basic stuff. Are you even certified?


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

The other reason for a hood is that you don't want, not only the critters, but the paint nasties, on you if you can help it. Summer I wear a 'Caribbean suit' and for winter I have a 5mm neoprene (thanks Santa)


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## Samuelmonosov (Mar 7, 2014)

Does anyone know of a tank fill compressor that would work in a sailboat? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Samuelmonosov said:


> Does anyone know of a tank fill compressor that would work in a sailboat?


Sure, they are common. Google Bauer Compressors.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

SanDiegoChip said:


> That's a good question. For say $100.00 USD with shipping and then a friend bring it down I could afford to make a mistake.
> A pond/aquarium pump does not sound very enticing
> And I guess I searched using the wrong search words!
> Thanks,
> Chip


Especially one with all that Chinese writing on it. I would be concerned about what was being pumped besides air. What makes up the impeller? Any lead in the plastic? Since it is for "aquarium" use it will not have much in the way of regulations. There was a thread a while ago about home made hookas. But i believe they were mainly 110 volt, not 12 volt. If I were getting a hooka I would want to make sure it could be used for more than just hull cleaning. I would want to be able to do some recreational hooka diving as well, so a 2 person one would be high on my list. But then you start running into some serious cost issues.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

miatapaul said:


> Especially one with all that Chinese writing on it.


I guarantee that when you start looking for bottom-of-the-line hookah rigs, the compressors are always going to be Chinese-made junk. High quality American-built compressors are not cheap. I personally would never use anything but.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Fstbttms said:


> I guarantee that when you start looking for bottom-of-the-line hookah rigs, the compressors are always going to be Chinese-made junk. High quality American-built compressors are not cheap. I personally would never use anything but.


And there is a difference between something that was brought in to make bubbles in a koi pond, and made to pump air to sustain human life. One would hope that a company selling it to support life would at least do some quality control on the stuff to make sure they are not pumping old waste oil, and toxins. I don't have anything against the Chinese manufacturing, but they have shown themselves to make material substitutions if you don't keep a close eye on them. Heck they make some fine boats, but I am sure they would not be so nice if they did not have someone watching over there shoulder.

Trouble is finding anything made here anymore.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

miatapaul said:


> And there is a difference between something that was brought in to make bubbles in a koi pond, and made to pump air to sustain human life.


The truth is that any commercially-available, recreational-level hookah is going to be based on an air compressor that was originally designed for another purpose, regardless of how much the compressor costs or where it was made.

That said, I wouldn't ever trust my lungs to the cheapest Chinese-made POS compressor I could find.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I cleaned bottoms in Hawaii for a couple years with an air compressor from Home Depot. I can't remember the name right now but it was just over 110$. I would recommend a longer hose.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> I cleaned bottoms in Hawaii for a couple years with an air compressor from Home Depot. I can't remember the name right now


Does oxygen deprivation cause memory loss


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Be careful about where your air intake is located, too....CO poisoning is a nasty thing under water.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Samuelmonosov said:


> Does anyone know of a tank fill compressor that would work in a sailboat?


 We have friends Mike and Holly on S\V Wanuskewin who have a 1995 Catalina 42 MKII with a dive compressor mounted on their deck. They are avid divers. I am just a button cleaner, our bottom only.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

northoceanbeach said:


> I cleaned bottoms in Hawaii for a couple years with an air compressor from Home Depot. I can't remember the name right now but it was just over 110$. I would recommend a longer hose.


We want to use 12v DC as a power source. We have plenty of solar and a 10 amp draw is not much. We have seen some bigger dive 12v compressors at 26 amps and that is too much. Our water maker draws 8 amps and we run it all day and still get 14.30 volts and the dump load from the solar makes us hot water.
We would not be adverse to 110 if we could sustain it with the inverter. We have a Honda EU 2000i generator but we do not want to break it out. We have had it for 3 years or more and have 10 hours on it. Some cloudy days in February . 
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanDiegoChip said:


> I am just a button cleaner, our bottom only.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Sounds to me like a dive compressor (and some dive classes) would be the best approach. Anyone tried something like this?
Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

jimgo said:


> Sounds to me like a dive compressor (and some dive classes) would be the best approach. Anyone tried something like this?
> Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor


1.- The Shoebox Compressor merely boosts the output of a primary compressor. It is not a stand-alone compressor.

2.- It does not provide breathing air. SCUBA compressors use a very high degree of filtration. This thing does not.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I just saw their comment about not using it for breathable air. Sorry!

http://shoeboxcompressor.com/FAQ-s/faqs.html


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I purchased a Deck Snorkel 3.5 years ago, and have been immensely happy with it. During the day, the solar panels keep up with the unit, so it doesn't even deplete the batteries. When I purchased this unit, there were 3 on the market and after a severe comparison, this one from BC, Canada, though a bit dearer, seemed to be the better built unit.
I wouldn't go back to a tank set up or scuba gear to clean or work on the boat, ever again. This set up needs no hydro, no big tanks to ding the boat, no filling station, very little maintenance and no time limit in the water.
My only suggestion would be to get a double rig. When I purchased mine, I couldn't imagine I'd ever have a sailing companion again, but now, we have to take turns using it for work or fun.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

No cruising friends with a dive compressor aboard? Geez a 3000 lb fill should get you ages at what say 8' of water? Are you a smoker? Obese? Way out of shape? Maybe spend the morning snorkeling/cleaning on it and build up your fitness level.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

aeventyr60 said:


> Geez a 3000 lb fill should get you ages at what say 8' of water? Are you a smoker? Obese? Way out of shape? Maybe spend the morning snorkeling/cleaning on it and build up your fitness level.


Do a lot of hull cleaning, do ya?


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

northoceanbeach said:


> I cleaned bottoms in Hawaii for a couple years with an air compressor from Home Depot. I can't remember the name right now but it was just over 110$. I would recommend a longer hose.


Here is what was being used in Paradise Village Marina in Banderas Bay Mexico when we were there this last summer:
This equipment was used to clean our and other bottoms.









DeWalt with accumulator tank


















Juanito and our boat to the left.


















Thompson Compressor (I think used for nail guns)


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Fstbttms said:


>


 Thanks for your help on this. We will need some better WiFi to watch these videos.
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

The Thomas 1020 (in your second set of pix) was the hull cleaning industry standard for years. They went out of production for a couple of years and hookah makers and hull cleaners moved on to other compressors (the 1020 is available again, but is difficult to find and much more expensive than it used to be.) I now use the Thomas 1207.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

capta said:


> I purchased a Deck Snorkel 3.5 years ago


 Is this the Sea Breathe Model 130-D and 230-D deck units? If so they are quite expensive for us. Nice though! 
Thanks,
Chip


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Our plan here is this:

Check and fix any leaks from the dive tank to the regulator. 








We put this one on the yellow hose, it worked on the dive tank.
We switched out the regulator that came with the yellow hose to the one that came with the dive tank. I think the yellow hose regulator is rated for a lower psi and air is being forced out when I am not breathing it. Check for leaks at other places also.









I am not convinced it will not leak so we will stop at Vallarta UnderSea to have them check the fittings. We also picked up the re-filled dive tank today. 
Our beater car to the left.

If we can get 2-3 bottom cleanings from one dive tank then that will make life a lot easier for the rest of this cruising season.









This summer we will purchase the Resun MPQ906 DC Air Compressor Pump 12V unless we find even a better one of the same type. There are at least a few of these type of pumps available and this is so far the best I have found. Some are rated for more air and some are 6v, 12v and 24v.
The regulator that comes with the kit, along with the pump and hose is not really a regulator. It does not regulate the air flow. The air just goes through the regulator and if you do not breath it goes on out into the water.









You can get a less expensive kit with a snorkel with the yellow hose attached to the snorkel and it does the same thing. So once we get the pump we will connect a snorkel to our existing yellow hose and use it that way. This is not a problem as I have a C-Pap machine that I breath with at night because I have Sleep Apnea. The breathing machine acts the same way as the Resun MPQ906 DC Air Compressor Pump.I was tempted to use the C-Pap machine for the bottom cleaning but do not want to take the chance of messing it up.
So there you have the plan. I will let you know the final outcome just in case this all works out good - it may help others.
Thanks,
Chip


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Chip,

Yes, please keep us informed on your eventual decision.

Friends heard theres a good one in Home Depot, i think a similar price to the MPQ 906 but I dont know if its 12v or 110 v


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Here is what I expect the OP will find when he uses the aquarium pump- it will deliver an adequate air supply at or very near the surface, but once Chip starts exerting himself during a hull cleaning and moving up and down the hull, he will overbreathe the compressor. Deep breaths will simply demand more air than the little compressor can physically supply. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. If this unit was capable of providing a comfortable air supply for hull cleaners, we'd see hull cleaners using it. But we don't.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
We just left Vallarta UnderSea and Armando calibrated both of our regulators. The one originally on the yellow hose had a small leak. He corrected it and test the other. Both are now working perfect. Armando also gave us some O rings for the dive tank valve. We connected the stage one and the yellow hose with the other gear and tested the whole thing and found none.

The tank should be stamped with the pressure rating. In our case I think it may be 2400 because last time we got it filled the tank gauge read 2000 but it could have been somewhat higher as I did not look that good. I'll check that out again. We had just got it hydro'static inspected and filled.
Chip


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Chip-
You'll also find that tanks come in different sizes, widely different volumes, so "one tank" can be twice as much air as another tank, even at the same pressure. And some shops never seem to fill to the full pressure.
FWIW.


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## MarcHall (Jun 13, 2006)

A few points.

1. How long a tank will last is based on its volume not on its pressure.
I have the following tanks in my collection
6 cft tank that fills to 3000psi
80 cft tank that fills to 3000 psi
160 cft in a set of double tanks that fills to 3000.
260 cft in a set of doubles tanks that fills to just under 3500 psi.

The individual quoted a 3000 psi tank probably has an AL 80 cft tank
The original poster looks to have an old school 71.2 cft tank that 
has 71.2 cft when fill to 2475 psi. Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft.

2. Gas/Air consumption
It's all based on your surface consumption rate. Mine is around 0.4 cft/min.
When we plan on how much gas is needed for a recreational dive to deal with an out of air situation - shared gas we use 1.0 cft/min as usually beginners get excited when this happens. Cleaning the boat you are working hard. Cleaning the bottom of a boat with a worn-out bottom paint is going to need to scrub harder then one whose boat was recently painted. 
Gas consumption increases with depth as the ambient pressure increases with depth. At 33 feet the ambient pressure is twice what it is at the surface so your gas consumption is going to be twice your surface consumption.

4. Tank life
So lets assume with your workload you are breathing 2cft/min. Breathing the tank at the waterline your 65 cft tank should last if 30 mins if we leave a 5 cft reserve in the tank (good way to keep water out of the tank). At 33 feet your consumption would jump 4 cft/min and the tank would last 15 mins. So for the depths you are diving and work you are doing your 65 tank should last you somewhere between 15 and 30mins. An 80 cft tank (actually 77cft @ 3000 psi, but marketed as an 80 cft tank) with the 5 cft reserve would last between 18 and 36 mins.

5. Pressure in hose to second stage.
The purpose of the first stage that mounts to your tank is too reduce the pressure from tank pressure to something like 140 psi + ambient pressure.
You are keeping the tank at the surface so the ambient pressure is 14.7 psi or call it 15 so a total of 155 psi. Normally the first stage is carried on your back so the pressure in the hose increases at you descent. At the surface 155 psi, at 33 feet ~170 psi (140 psi + 2*15), at 99 feet ~200 psi (140 psi + 4*15psi). It might be cranked up a bit to better perform at depth since you are not taking the first stage with you to depth. 
The second stage is designed to reduce this intermediate pressure to ambient pressure at depth (~15 psi at the surface and ~30 psi at 33 feet). If its hard to breath at depth the first stage should have a way to adjust the pressure. The second stage may be adjusted to work at lower pressure

6. Air compressor to drive the second stage.
Ideally you are going to want a compressor that can supply gas at ~150 psi and a volume of around 4 cft/min. A small compressor may be able to supply the pressure but not the volume. You also want the compressor to put out clean dry air. Scuba compressors typically have filters. Oil in the compressor can result in Carbon Monoxide and oil in the air - things you want to avoid. Carbon Monoxide can kill you fairly quickly and oil will result in Lipoid pneumonia.

7. Scuba compressor
Sounds like its out of your budget. I have a couple of small high pressure scuba compressors. A Bauer Junior which pumps between 3 and 4 cft min. Assuming 3 cfg/min would take 20 mins of runtime to fill your scuba tank. My Rix 6A pumps at close to 6 cfg/min so it would take 10-12 mins to pump the same tank. Both came with gasoline powered engines to drive them the Rix was converted to a 110V AC motor. The Bauer sometimes lives in box in front of the mast on Crazy Fish. Its noisy and I try to run it when there is some decent wind blowing and neighbors are gone and the wife is off the boat. The wind helps to carry the noise and the exhaust gas from the gasoline motor away. When cruising I carried 2 85 cft tanks that would take an hour of runtime to fill both.

Due to the runtime to fill a tank, the noise level, etc I am normally not all that eager to fill the tanks of others who had scuba gear but not their own compressor.

The Bauer cost me something like $2500 a number of years. It was new, at the end of a boat show and they did not want to take it home so I got a deal. The Rix was bought used for $2000 if I remember correctly.

Regards
Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
Just put together the tank and hose etc checking for leaks at the boat.








No leaks but it looks like the red tide is coming in.
Why does our tank only read 19000?








It was just filled, should it not go to 2400 or more?
I do not see anywhere on the tank where it is stamped for pressure.
OK just saw the post about the tank size ect. 
"Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft."
I had this filled at the technical college in La Cruz so maybe that is why?
Instituto Tecnolologico De Bahia De Banderas
Thanks,
Chip


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## MarcHall (Jun 13, 2006)

Look at the stampings on the tank up near the neck.

You should see DOT (Dept of transportation) or ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission ??) stamped into it.

You should see 3AA stamped into it. (3AA stands for a steel tank)

You should see 2250 stamped into it if its a 71.2 cft tank
You might see 1800 stamped into if its a 60 cft tank.

Your pressure gauge may be off or the shop that filled it, fill it hot to rated pressure 2250 and its cooled downed to what it is reading now.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"has 71.2 cft when fill to 2475 psi. Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft."

Mark, are you referring to the "plus stamp" nonsense?

In the northeast, no dive shop or hydro shop will perform a "plus" hydro on a tank. And yet, the DOT has issued a public letter stating that any tank which was originally plus rated, can be plus rated indefinitely afterwards. All the shop has to do is perform the pressure (elasticity) test to the higher rating, and if the tank passes, restamp it with a new plus rating.

The shops are all full of FUD about "gee, it needs special equipment...it needs special tests...it's illegal..." but the DOT is the source of the regulations, and they're on record as saying the industry is full of crap. Apparently the cave-diving shops in Florida know better and WILL perform a plus hydro, if the tank qualifies, but they're the exception to the farce.

AFAIK that's got nothing to do with steel or aluminum, that's an industry-wide game being played on all plus-rated tanks.

And you'll find that the capacity of a tank does indeed depend on the VOLUME of the tank, not just the pressure. Tanks are sometimes measured in liters, of volume of water they can contain. (Not in the _US _SCUBA hobby, but the same tanks. ) If you have a tank that has twice as much _volume _as my tank, at the same pressure you'll have twice as much capacity. At 2000 psi, the _volume _will determine capacity, in one tank versus another. ANY tank should be capable of a 2000psi fill, that's barely above the 1800psi "low pressure" cut off.
That's all part of why a modern steel tank has a much higher capacity than an Alu80, which has a much thicker tank wall, which gives it a reduced volume despite a similar size. And very different buoyancy characteristics, again because the volume with "no" pressure changes buoyancy when the tank is empty.

Pressure and volume: Two sides, same coin. Pressure you can adjust, with the fill. Volume you can't, unless you pour cement into the tank.


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## MarcHall (Jun 13, 2006)

Yes I was referring to the + rating on the tank.
For a couple of years there was no hydro testing station that I could find in LA, Orange or San Diego county that would test for the + rating.

The shop use which opened a couple ago, "San Diego Divers" has been operating a hydro station from shortly after they opened and test all tanks capable of receiving a plus rating for a plus rating. 
A quality shop.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I figure they can't all be lying *stards engaged in a conspiracy. So it must be, that none of them want to spend the $125 for the "+" punch tool. Standard punch sets include the letters and numbers, but if you want to stamp a "+" then you have to special order the + punch as a custom punch and they're not something that's available off the shelf.

Or...could they all really be so dumb they just don't know how to put the extra pressure in the tank, and do the same math they do on every other test? Nah. Gotta be the cost of the punch, and the (horrors!) endless confusion that dive shops would have, offering and ordering two different kinds of hydro tests. So terribly difficult.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
Can anyone find this compressor on line?
12v compressor at eBay

I have looked a lot and can only come up with this one but the specs are not the same. There are different models and I think this is the biggest.

Specs:
VOLT DC12V

POWER 120W

PRESSURE 0.12MPa

OUTPUT 170L/min @ 13.5V

160L/min @ 12V

WEIGHT 3.9 kg

SIZE 253x138x151mm

I still can not decide between the DeWalt or this 12v.
Thanks,
Chip


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Odds are they both come form the same factory in Shenzhen, you might contact the seller on Ali. I still wouldn't be very comfortable about breathing from anything made in Shenzhen even if they said it was "breathing quality". All that means over there is that it won't kill you immediately.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I think one of the things most on here will agree with is that to take the cheapest route when you are choosing a breathing system, may not be the wisest way to go.
I've known a few "professional" divers who have paid with their health, if not life, for a tiny error in judgement.
Check out the real thing; safe, quality and convenient; https://www.seabreathe.com/


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Or any of these from Brownie's

Brownie's Third Lung Diving, Hookah Surface Supplied Air Systems |


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## rcontrera (Aug 4, 2006)

Somebody asked about scuba tank fill compressors and they start at about $3500 for gasoline engine driven models. And that Brownie's economy 12V hooka system starts at about $1500.

Either way you are dealing with systems that are designed for breathing air.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

rcontrera said:


> Somebody asked about scuba tank fill compressors and they start at about $3500 for gasoline engine driven models. And that Brownie's economy 12V hooka system starts at about $1500.
> 
> Either way you are dealing with systems that are designed for breathing air.


OK, once again, at the recreational level, *there are no compressors designed specifically to provide breathing air* in a hookah system. Every compressor in every hookah that you or I can buy has been repurposed from its original intended use. This includes every hookah from SeaBreathe, Air Line or Brownie's.

My guess is the cheap Chinese unit the OP is considering is probably safe to use. The only thing likely to be injured is the OP's wallet. I just don't see how (with a max delivery of 17 PSI) it can provide enough air to use comfortably. I know I wouldn't even be able to breathe thru mine if I dialed it down that low.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

FB is right, so one should be very careful of what they are putting in their lungs. 

There are some things that could kill you on the spot, although, unlikely at the shallow depths of hull cleaning. There are others that may kill you 30 years from now. This is not a good place for trial and error. Do it right, the way the pros do it. Or, at least the way the pros have done it successfully.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Another rediculous thread slamming anything made in China.


I do agree that the units will probably be designed for another purpose. As Is my Yanmar and other marine engines!


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## rcontrera (Aug 4, 2006)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Another rediculous thread slamming anything made in China.


Absolutely! I would venture a guess that most, if not all of the professional breathing air systems marketed in the US have Chinese components. Parker is one of the largest suppliers of breathing air hose and fittings we use in the diving industry and they have almost ALL their stuff made in China.



MarkofSeaLife said:


> I do agree that the units will probably be designed for another purpose. As Is my Yanmar and other marine engines!


My smallest high pressure air compressor for filling scuba tanks was originally designed for filling bottles used for starting-air for the Italian Air Force.

All that said, the key is getting a compressor ... ANY compressor ... that can supply the proper pressure and flow rate to push air through a breathing air grade filtration system. The crappier the compressor, the more filtration needed. The more filtration, the harder the compressor has to work to push through it so the bigger the compressor.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Mark-
"Another rediculous thread slamming anything made in China"
As anyone who has contracted with a Chinese business partner or vendor can tell you, and as every business publication has commented, there's a big difference between what might be made in China, and what is sold from China.

Time and time again, if something is exported directly from China (as that eBay compressor appears to be, from the broken Ynglish) there is no quality control and no assurance of what it actually is. The insulin scandal, the toxic toothpaste, are all examples of how it is considered normal, acceptable, and proper by the old school Chinese to treat the animals from the West. And I say "animals" literally, as the Chinese were taught for millennia that their were the Gods, the Emperor, and a strict division all the way down to the wide-eyed hairy barbarians of the Old World. Just as the Japanese were taught.

This is all history, culture, and fact. Dumping your garbage on the animals wasn't shameful, they were animals after all. 

Today the culture is arguably changing, but there are still many problems in China that are addressed only when a local partner (read: family) is in charge on site at all times. This is one reason why Chinese vendors have bought western companies (i.e. Volvo) instead of trying to build and export a market to the West. They know that a Chinese-native brand simply will not be trusted, even if Haier has proven that it can be otherwise. Arguably.

Wasn't it two years ago that there was a big toxic-milk-product scandal in China? And the man responsible for it was sentenced to death? It's so hard to keep track, while looking at the pictures of smog in Peking (Beijing, whatever it is this year) and brand new empty cities, some built with (oops) concrete that literally is falling apart. The Chinese don't have an exclusive on this stuff, but they just do it SO well.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

I brought a double hooka and I find that when I am using it by myself for cleaning the boat it has plenty of air. The system is quoting Compressor: 4 cfm and Operating pressure: 25 psi. Buying one designed for two people would solve the issue of running out of air, then you can take other people out to check out the coral. They may even help you scrub your boat! 

Attached is the link, though it may only be available in Oz.

Ilenart

PowerSnorkel | Powerdive


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
We found our solution.
After watching this video I decide the 12v system was just to rinky dink.

_I do not see how to embed a video in this post so here is the URL._






DeWalt 
150 PSI 2.6 SCFM compressor. 
Supports two divers and is used by some of the crews cleaning bottoms on the docks for a living.









A friend who was a professional diver cleaning boat bottoms bought the Harbor Freight 6 gal model and is happy with it. Another cruiser friend tried the 2 gal model but it did not give enough air.

A cruiser tried a friends Airline system on his 40' + sail boat with a full keel and a 6' draft. He said he is over weight and smokes. He said he was scrapping with a wide scrapper and was breathing hard but the Airline could not keep up so he was looking for a compressor like the ones described here. So the success rates vary but we tried our DeWalt and it works for us great.

We here in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico do not have a "Harbor Freight".

So we thought at Home Depot in Puerto Vallarta we could get the Porter-Cable 6-Gal. 150 psi Oil-Free Pancake Compressor but what were we thinking! No way, at least not now.









They may have had them at one time but not now. They could be dis-continued as I think the DeWalt one we bought could be. We do not see the DeWalt one on the DeWalt web site now. So we left Home Depot and went to a tool store. They sold some of the "Trooper" brand items but had no "Pancake Compressor" types. Then off to Bucerias to another tool store who said they do not carry the Porter-Cable 6-Gal. 150 psi Oil-Free Pancake Compressor any more. That their DeWalt 6 gal is over 4000 pesos (well over $300.00 USD) and to get it at Home Depot in Puerto Vallarta but he would have the water traps in next week. OK back to Puerto Vallarta and a stop at Cosco but no luck so then to Home Depot and pony up for the DeWalt 6 gal Pancake Compressor. Home Depot had another brand a "Husky" but we did not like it. There were too many parts exposed and it was taller making it hard for us to store. We paid about twice as much by the time we got the DeWalt out of Home Depot but we consider it money well spent. Actually it was about $100.00 USD over the non-sale price of the Porter-Cable 6-Gal. 150 psi Oil-Free Pancake Compressor. Things are just not easy here in Mexico when trying to buy a specific brand or model no matter what the store. Add in the language barrier as we speak limited Spanish. Debbie does speak some Spanish now but still it is hard to get the point across. We think we can run the DeWalt on the inverter and eliminate the Honda EU 2000i generator. The DeWalt draws 10 amps.









We will clean out the hanging locker soon so this compressor sit in here nicely.









So we went out and purchased a DeWalt compressor at Home Depot. Fits in our forward hanging locker which is really a storage locker as our close are rolled up as they are not cotton, they are a light breathing easy dry non wrinkle fabric.

We had gone o the tool store in Bucerias, Mexico and ordered a water separator or water trap and then went back this week and they forgot to order it. He said that his friend at another sore in Mezcales had what we wanted (he called him) so we drover there but guess what. He did not. 









So we had him order the one that we liked, this one. It will be in, in yet one more week but the bottom can not wait that long or it will get real hard to clean so we got a temp one for now. We went back to pick it up and now they say they can not get just the single you need to buy the double so we will keep looking 









We did find a simple one that will get us by at an paint store with some more looking. We also picked up some nice air fittings that will not rust.









We also picked up some SS scrubber pads for cleaning the water line. At dinner with Danny and Debra on S\V Cyclades they told us these SS pads do a real nice job on the tough spots along the water line. We tried these or my wife did the water line and used these. Got all the grass and green and poo from macerating off the boat at the water line. They worked great.









Had to go to a truck brake hydraulic shop and get a 1\4" fitting crimped on the old Hooka hose to connect to the water trap or water separator. We also saw single air line fittings there of all types.









Then we attached the water trap and we good to go diving!









We used the DeWalt with the Honda EU 2000I generator and I was down cleaning the boat just over two hours. It was great having unlimited air! Got a real premium job done.









We set the PSI to 90 and this worked for air delivery to our 5' 6" draft or more because our water line is under water  We have abut a 40' hose.
Thanks,
Chip


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

I would concider where I would place the generator in relation to the compresser , not that you end up with exhaust in the compresser!.....Dale


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Compressed CO will kill you quickly.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

SanDiegoChip said:


> We think we can run the DeWalt on the inverter and eliminate the Honda EU 2000i generator. The DeWalt draws 10 amps.
> Chip


Not for long. It requires about 100 amps DC to make 10 amps AC with an inverter.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

1.- Your inexpensive pneumatic fittings guaranteed to corrode and freeze-up in short order, especially since they will live 24/7/365 in a salt air environment. 

2.- The plastic water trap is the first thing that will break, IMHO. It should not be a fixed attachment point for the air hose. In fact, you really do not need it at all. 

3.- As previously mentioned, the gas-powered generator should be as far from the compressor as possible. Either that, or you need to mount an air intake snorkle on the compressor.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

SanDiegoChip said:


> Hi,
> We found our solution.
> After watching this video I decide the 12v system was just to rinky dink.
> 
> ...


the guy in the video says it is good for 5 meters, yet when the guy put his head under water you can hear the pump start to strain, I think he meant to say 5 centimeters....

Or are those Australian meters shorter than the rest of the world???

OH and Please be safe, move that geny away from the compressor. We want to to be able to make posts in the future!


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
Thanks for the input. We will move the compresser away from the generator for saftey. I will be going under again this next week to replace the shaft zinc. My first time replacing a zinc!
Guess the inverter option is not going to work at 100 amps for 10 amps AC. Will give it a shot to see what happens and keep an eye on the Link 2000 
Not sure about the water trap. All the divers I have seen at both Paradise Village Marina and La Cruz Marina use them so I figured it best to follow suit.
Thanks,
Chip


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

SanDiegoChip said:


> Hi,
> Not sure about the water trap. All the divers I have seen at both Paradise Village Marina and La Cruz Marina use them so I figured it best to follow suit.
> Thanks,
> Chip


They may be running compressors that came with the separator already attached. Personally, I think I'd need one, too, but certainly Fstbottoms' knowledge and experience should be respected. I still think I'd run the compressor up to shutoff, remove the regulator, and crack open the line, with the airstream aimed at a cool piece of aluminum or glass, to see how much condensate carries over.
And I'll second Mitiempo's advice about trying to run that compressor on the inverter. Depending on the total capacity of your battery bank, and the discharge rating (battery type dependent), it could definitely shorten the life cycle. Many inverters will simply shut down from the big inductive spike.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Chip-
I may simply be inept, or cursed with poorly cast zincs, but I've found that if you want them to get on tight and STAY on, you (or at least me!) need to use two mauls or sledges, or whatever. One to back up the backside, the other to pound on the front side. If you just try to "hit" one side to ensure it is fully seated on the shaft, that tends to just shake loose the one on the other side, and there's a limit to how much torque you want to put on the hex keys.
Having the second maul, having the mass to back up the back side, makes it much easier for me.
FWIW.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> Chip-
> I may simply be inept, or cursed with poorly cast zincs, but I've found that if you want them to get on tight and STAY on, you (or at least me!) need to use two mauls or sledges, or whatever. One to back up the backside, the other to pound on the front side. If you just try to "hit" one side to ensure it is fully seated on the shaft, that tends to just shake loose the one on the other side, and there's a limit to how much torque you want to put on the hex keys.
> Having the second maul, having the mass to back up the back side, makes it much easier for me.
> FWIW.


I'm flabbergasted by your difficulty of getting shaft zincs to set. I do not understand why you would have so much trouble with this unless, and I am NOT trying to be argumentative here, you are using the wrong size. I can't remember, and granted I may be in the first(?) stages of "old timer's disease", ever having trouble getting a zinc to set or stay on for it's usable lifetime, without even one maul. Tighten it, give it a whack with a hammer and forget it.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanDiegoChip said:


> All the divers I have seen at both Paradise Village Marina and La Cruz Marina use them so I figured it best to follow suit.
> Thanks,
> Chip


I have many thousands of hours of hull cleaning under my belt and have never used or felt the need for a water trap. Plus, the way you have it set up just seems like the hose will stress the plastic housing to the breaking point.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> Chip-
> I may simply be inept, or cursed with poorly cast zincs, but I've found that if you want them to get on tight and STAY on, you (or at least me!) need to use two mauls or sledges, or whatever. One to back up the backside, the other to pound on the front side. If you just try to "hit" one side to ensure it is fully seated on the shaft, that tends to just shake loose the one on the other side, and there's a limit to how much torque you want to put on the hex keys.
> Having the second maul, having the mass to back up the back side, makes it much easier for me.
> FWIW.


I have installed hundreds (if not thousands) of anodes. Have never used a backup maul, nor ever heard of another diver doing so.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Damfino, maybe it was just a batch of cheap off-size zincs. Or a metric/vs/imperial "not quite same" thing.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Zincs are marked for size. 1" is 1" and 25mm is 25mm - but they are not the same, just close.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Fstbttms

I have Volvo S120 saildrives. My port collar-zinc keeps throwing off. Stbd is fine. Last time we installed it, boat was out of water, so husband cleaned threads with tap and used loctite on the threads. There may have been residual crap in the threads, but do you have any other tips to suggest to keep these damn things on? I have seen discussions elsewhere, but I'd be curious to hear your POV


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Multihullgirl said:


> Fstbttms
> 
> I have Volvo S120 saildrives. My port collar-zinc keeps throwing off. Stbd is fine. Last time we installed it, boat was out of water, so husband cleaned threads with tap and used loctite on the threads. There may have been residual crap in the threads, but do you have any other tips to suggest to keep these damn things on? I have seen discussions elsewhere, but I'd be curious to hear your POV


It can be an issue, I suppose. I don't actually install a lot of the single-piece ring anodes on sail drives, because they tend to last a long time but also because it requires pulling the prop and that makes it expensive to have me do it. But when I do, I use an underwater Loctite (248, I think). It's the only one that cures underwater. Other than that, I've got nothing for you.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,








Water traps on a dock divers setup. This DeWalt was a divers (Ernesto) in La Cruz marina. We came in for a half day to get the bottom cleaned.





He the Honda EU 2000i is running and the DeWalt is running to fill the accumulator tank. This was the first time running for the DeWAlt and the drain for the tank was open at the bottom so the air was hissing out. I realized this just after the video and shut it.
We will run the dock cord to the Honda EU 2000i and then put the DeWalt in the cockpit and run the hose out through the stern steps. That way the compressor will be far away from the genset. We will just leave the dock chord on the life lines. It works for sailing that way.

Running the DeWalt off the inverter may just be a bad idea and we will skip it. The thing is we do not need the Honda EU 2000i for any other reason but bottom cleaning. That means we need to leave up on deck for 8 months of the year for just bottom cleaning. 
The other 4 months we need it for cloudy days etc. Oh well it is what it is I guess.
The water trap is all metal going through and has a plastic outer housing. We are still trying to get a better one.









There are water traps on this system also you just do not see them. The are out more on the hoses.

Here in Mexico all the bottom cleaners I have seen use water traps. Do not know why and maybe they do not either?









Shows the bottom of our boat.
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

The water traps the local divers are using has a sturdy metal top to which the air hose is connected. Yours does not, it is a plastic body and eventually you are going to pull your air hose at an angle to the water trap and break that plastic body. _(Edit: Having read your previous post more closely, I see yours has some metal construction. If the plastic does not bear any structural stress, it may work OK.)_

I do not use a compressor that has an accumulator tank and never have (another piece of uneccessary hardware, IMHO.) Maybe water condenses in the tank and then gets blown into the hose and that's why the locals use them. I guarantee the guy using the little Thomas 1020 (in the green crate) doesn't need it. I used that same model myself for about 17 years without a water trap and without the need for one.


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## hopcar (Jul 6, 2013)

Chip, my first thought when watching your video is that generator is way too close to the compressor. I'd be afraid of pumping carbon monoxide down to the diver. Looks very dangerous to me. Get them as far apart as you can.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
Well the Thomas compressor is way more $$ than the DeWalt and your lucky to have one. We are on a single SS income. Remember we are not pro divers. Just want to clean the bottom. This system worked great and cruisers with the Harbor Freight model seem happy enough with them also. I have said that we are looking for a better water trap but it takes time in Mexico to find the stuff and even to get ashore etc. I figure better to have it than not because we see others with them. It is not expensive. We can always remove it. The other water trap in the picture we posted is much sturdier and we can mount it different.

As I said we will move the DeWalt away from the compressor, that was good feed back.









Picture of our bottom with the stern steps dropped down into the water.

















Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanDiegoChip said:


> Remember we are not pro divers. Just want to clean the bottom.


Understood. I'm just saying that more parts you add to the system, the more likely it is that one of them will fail or otherwise cause a problem. No accumulator tank means no associated plumbing, gauges, shutoff valves, water traps etc. Less to go wrong means greater reliability.


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

Chip, the water separator in the pic of Ernesto's rig is horizontal, which is just goofy - needs to be vertical, with the bowl down and drain at the bottom. I suppose they may just be running them the way they got them, as compressors used for pneumatic tools should always have separators. I imagine excessive moisture would not do the regulator any good, either. Entrained moisture can carry other contaminates with it, which can block pilot orifices and prevent diaphragms from seating correctly.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
For us, using the compressor with the accumulator tank works good. We do not use the system but a couple hours every two weeks, if that. We are going down to clean the bottom this coming weekend and the bottom looks like it is staying cleaner because of our good job last time. It should not take as long to clean the bottom this time. It is time to replace the shaft zinc and that will be a first for me.

When we get a bottom job this summer the time will be even less. The accumulator tank saves both the Honda EU 200I from running at a higher speed all the time I am under water or on the surface talking, or getting ready to go in the water or just not breathing through the regulator etc. The compressor also is working less because it just shuts off. The noise is also reduce.

Once the compressor reaches 150 PSI in the accumulator tank the compressor shuts off starts again at 120 PSI. This in turn ramps down the Honda EU 2000I to echo mode, meaning it is running at it's lowest speed, fairly quiet and not using as much gas. We need to dingy out everything which also means gas so this helps on the schleping.

This works out for us and with the drain on the bottom of the accumulator tank the system should last us quite a long time. It was also fitting our budget

We know of a boat for sale in the La Cruz marina that has the 12 v hooks system. I was thinking of asking if he would sell it but at even half price it would be too many pesos for us.










It is also very nice to be in control of our boat bottom, zincs, keel cooler for the refer and through hole strainers etc. 
The fun factor is there too, staying down as long as we like.

Now we are going to try to use this system to clean our anchor chain while it is in the ocean. Debbie my wife will operate the windless and pull it up say 6' at a time and I will try cleaning that section in the water on so on. We have been doing this on deck and it is messy and not that easy. I imagine we can not get all the growth off but possibly the heavy stuff.
Thanks,
Chip


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

SanDiegoChip said:


> Now we are going to try to use this system to clean our anchor chain while it is in the ocean. Debbie my wife will operate the windless and pull it up say 6' at a time and I will try cleaning that section in the water on so on. We have been doing this on deck and it is messy and not that easy. I imagine we can not get all the growth off but possibly the heavy stuff.
> Thanks,
> Chip


You need an anchor chain brush. 3 heavy duty brushes held in a "U" shape on the end of a pole. I can't find a pic but easy to make. Clean the chain as it comes up from on deck quite easily.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Hi,
























So we just replaced this 1 1\4 shaft zinc. First time and it went well. A month or more ago we went into the La Cruz marina and got the bottom cleaned. At that time the diver said to replace this zinc the next time the bottom was cleaned. This has now been about a month and a half. We think this does not look too bad and are wondering now since we clean the bottom ourselves if we could not have left it on for longer. I thought it was good to go till about a third left?
Any help on this?

Also we want to get our prop real nice and cleaned. We got all the grass and barnacles off but there is still black stuff and brown stuff we cannot wire brush off or scrape off. Can we use some wet and dry sand paper say about #220 grit and sand the prop clean? Any adverse effects?
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

That could've stayed on for longer. I use two criteria when replacing zincs- 1.- is it 50% depleted? 2.- Are the screws exposed?

Try stainless steel wool on the prop.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks for the zinc help.
So if it is 50% or over gone replace it or the screws are showing. 
I did try that but it did not help, I will try again then go for the fine grit sand paper?
Chip


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Any reason why an old zinc couldn't just be bolted onto a wire and turned into a guppy for dockside use?


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanDiegoChip said:


> I will try again then go for the fine grit sand paper?


Couldn't hurt.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

OK my wife Debbie corrected me. We used the SS scrubbing pad on the water line and it worked great. I tried it on the prop and it worked lousy. 
We will get some steel wool and try it out on the prop.
Thanks,
Chip


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> Any reason why an old zinc couldn't just be bolted onto a wire and turned into a guppy for dockside use?


No, except a depleted zinc isn't going to provide much (if any) protection. Why not use a new one, if you were going to go that route? Is five or ten bucks too much to spend?


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