# Toying with an idea (stern perch seats)



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I really like the idea of stern perch seats (catbird seats), but my stern rail is only a single rail, it sits kind of high, and the way the rail curves around the cockpit at the corner means I'd basically be making a loveseat on each corner, not a single chair.

Here's what my transom looks like:


Rather than having the seat sit up high, on top of the rail, I was thinking of suspending it below the rail. Here's my idea:



I was thinking of using something like this as the "hinge":
Rail Mount Hinge

And something like this as the O-ring:
New Stainless Steel O Rings 1-1/2"

I did the drawing yesterday, and then, as I thought about it more, I realized that I could/should put feet on the bottom of the chair to help take some of the strain off the stern rail.

So, aside from the very wise advice (which will probably be heeded in this case) to not make changes to your boat the first year, what are your thoughts?


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

Rather than suspend it from the pulpit, why not lay a board diagonally across the cockpit combing in the quarter? I did that on my boat: took a 3/4" mahogany board about 18" long, attached 4 long bolts to the plank in positions that would keep allow me to drop the board over the combing and they would hold the board in place. Put pieces of tygon tubing over the bolts so they wouldn't scratch the glass. Move it from one side to the other as needed or get rid of it entirely when not wanted.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

My concern with your plan is that, looking at how the stern rail itself is mounted, with the seat being essentially cantilevered inboard of the two sternrail mounting pads, you will definitely need some a support leg to take the weight.
So, if you have to add one leg, might as well add three. mount it directly to the coaming with 90 degree rail fittings:









installed to the coaming and the seat bottom, and stainless tube as your coaming mount legs, with a stainless tube leg tipped with a rubber foot as your third, inboard, leg. Add some padding to the rail as a backrest, and you're good to go. You can make your legs as tall as you want, and with the right height and seat shape access to the stern cleats is not compromised.


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

From the 'pic's', it 'looks' as if the 'lifeboat' davit's are in the way?


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Make yourself a one leg milking stool such as pictured below with a rubber tipped "toe" and nice padded seat and a lanyard to keep the thing from going adrift when it's not needed. You can position it wherever convenient. BTDT


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

svHyLyte said:


> Make yourself a one leg milking stool such as pictured below with a rubber tipped "toe" and nice padded seat and a lanyard to keep the thing from going adrift when it's not needed. You can position it wherever convenient. BTDT


Just make sure you keep it right side up when sitting.


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## dockbumdan (Feb 19, 2011)

Sternperch makes a rail kit with adds the second lower rail. Then you can make your own seat/cushion. here's the link. you can surely make the rail yourself http://www.zarcor.com/products/sternperch/railKit.php:rolleyes:


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

The idea of a leg for support is nice to take load off one the suspension and the rail. Give it a swing-away hinge on the top and a rubber cap on the bottom and you'd look really professional.

I want to get some when I have the extra money. I was on a new Hunter once and they were awesome to sit on, up high and with a good perspective.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I think i know want you want as i would like some to

But my older boat also has a narrow stern and they seem to me more common on newer boats which carry the beam all the way aft and have 3 or 4 more feet to spare in that area as i go from 9 feet to less than 5 feet at the stern


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback! At this point, it's all conjecture. I need to actually get some time aboard and see whether I even need them, and then how I'd actually go about it. But the ideas are very helpful. Thanks again!


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

I've been on several boats with the stern perch type of seats. Mostly they were one of those things that looks like a good idea, but turns out to be almost completely unused in practice. The one exception was a boat where the winches for the headsail sheets were positioned such that the stern perch was the perfect place to man the sheets while having a good view of the headsail. If the latter will not be the case on your boat, then I would think long and hard about whether or not the seats are really worth it.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Don,
That's a good point, thank you. My thinking, though, was that the seats wouldn't so much be for me, but for my kids. I have two boys, 7 and almost 5, and those would be fun places for them to sit. They would be able to see better from there, which hopefully will make sailing even more fun for them. I've heard that those seats can be some of the wettest on the boat; I think my boys might actually enjoy that!

I still need to actually get out and USE the boat before I make any changes; just kicking around ideas. I like the concept of just adding rail mounts and giving the seat proper support from below. That avoids any weight issues with the stern rail in case I or another adult want to sit up there. I had toyed with having the chair have feet, I don't know why I didn't think to just have the thing permanently mounted. I guess part of it was that, with the suspended version, you could easily lift it out of the way if you needed to get in there to work on something.

I don't think Zarcor's solution that uses the single bar will work on my boat, at least not without being intrusive. The span between the supports for the pulpit is too long, and I think the support bar would cut across the cockpit. 

Another idea might be to add additional vertical supports to the stern rail. That would give me more comfort if I hang an outboard off that bracket you see in the picture, allow the weight of any person(s) in the stern seats to be further distributed, and give me at least a little more safety. Hmmm...more to think about.

Thanks again everyone!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Jim, 
I think you'll need to add additional support
My Gemini had folding bow seats. Consider that too. 
You can see it below - it folds upwards out of the way, simple starboard seat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Of those that I know have pushpit seats, they are rarely used and only for passengers. I've not personally seen a set up where they are a useful deck position. 

Its hard to tell from the pic, but I also wonder if they will end up being in the way of moving around the cockpit, docking, etc. That would be a real downer if they aren't used either. If you're thinking of your kids using them, think about that being a much more exposed location for falling overboard than being down in the cockpit.

As an interim solution, put some pipe insulation around the pushpit tubing and make a sunbrella cover for it. That will make it much more comfortable to sit on the coaming and lean against it. 

See how the ergonomics of the cockpit work out and then modify as you see fit.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Jim, I'd be concerned about anything that intrudes on your space behind the wheel.

That said the stern seats are some of the most used seats on our boat. My wife is always there when she's not behind the wheel and guests seem to gravitate to them. In my avatar pic you can actually see my wife in the stern seat and how it cantilevers off the stern outside the cockpit.

Sail her for a bit to figure out if you want stern seats. If you do, consider having a metal fabricator make you a new stern rail that moves the seats backward out of the cockpit and is designed to carry the weight of people sitting there (it might not always be the kids). After all you don't want to come off a big wake and have the stern rail collapse while someone is sitting there.

Here's a pic of our factory setup. BTW, how are you making out with your trans?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Jim,
I've been coveting those stern perch seats ever since I first saw them. I'm afraid of what the fabricator would charge for the rails, but it's probably a good idea to price it out. In the end, it would probably look better and be more functional than anything I can DIY. Plus, the idea of pushing them back farther, so they hang out over the transom, is a good one. That would get the seat, and the passenger in it, farther out of the way. I'll just have to make sure it doesn't hit the davvit.

Minne, your point about it being an esposed position is a very good one. That was one of the reasons I thought adding three additional, vertical supports to the rail would be good. It would help close off that space a bit, making it harder for them to fall through. I'd probably also put netting or something up there, too, for additional safety. I know not to rely on the netting, but still, it's better to have it than to not, IMHO.

Chuck, I like the hinged idea. I'll have to noodle on that some more. If I can put a hinged/folding support leg on the seat, that would allow it to flip up out of the way, thereby addressing Minne and Jim's concerns, while avoiding the cost of fabing a new rail.

In the end, I'll have to price out everything, and look at how it would work functionally, before I do anything. If the cost of doing something (properly) with the existing rail approaches the cost of just having a new rail created, then I'd probably go in that direction. I want to split the rail already, anyway, to make it easier to get on an off the boat via the stern ladder.

Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming! I really appreciate all the feedback.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

jimgo said:


> I have two boys, 7 and almost 5, and those would be fun places for them to sit.


Your boys must be unusual. Reminds me of something a friend told me years ago...

"When my son was little," she said, "we were so excited when he first learned how to walk and how to talk. Now that he's 5 years old, I just wish he would sit down and shut up."


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Here are a few other pictures of the transom area. Sorry, when I took them I wasn't taking the pics with this thread in mind! Most were also taken before the boat was mine, so please excuse the mess!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

denverd0n said:


> Your boys must be unusual. Reminds me of something a friend told me years ago...
> 
> "When my son was little," she said, "we were so excited when he first learned how to walk and how to talk. Now that he's 5 years old, I just wish he would sit down and shut up."


LOL...they do have their days, but I really enjoy my kids. They are both very smart, and they each see things differently from each other, and from us, so I like having them around and hearing their thoughts. I travel 4-6 weeks out of the year for work, plus I wind up working late some nights, and have stuff to do around the house (as does everyone). As a result, I don't get to spend as much quality time with them as I'd like, especially while they are still young. Once they are teens, my opinion may change, and I may look for a job that allows me to travel more!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Jim, sorry, I forgot to reply to your question about the status of the boat. She's still at the marina. They hope to have an estimate of the cost to disassemble (and thus determine whether there is an insurance claim here) by next week. Of course, that's what they said last week, too. But at least they aren't charging me storage fees! And I know they are busy; it's frustrating, but understandable. The marina has said many times that I am welcome to come down and make myself at home while the boat is there. I'm leery to do too much, though; if she's going to be totaled, I don't want to expend any additional energy or cost on her. So, for now I'm focusing on further rehabbing the Albacore that's in my driveway.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

jimgo said:


> Jim, sorry, I forgot to reply to your question about the status of the boat. She's still at the marina. They hope to have an estimate of the cost to disassemble (and thus determine whether there is an insurance claim here) by next week. Of course, that's what they said last week, too. But at least they aren't charging me storage fees! And I know they are busy; it's frustrating, but understandable. The marina has said many times that I am welcome to come down and make myself at home while the boat is there. I'm leery to do too much, though; if she's going to be totaled, I don't want to expend any additional energy or cost on her. So, for now I'm focusing on further rehabbing the Albacore that's in my driveway.


A couple of thoughts come to mind. If she's totaled, nothing says you can't buy her back from the insurance company after you're paid off and do the work yourself. She appears to be a solid boat worth saving.

Also you're a bit north of Annapolis if I remember correctly (though not sure how far north). There have got to be some local fabricators there who could give you an estimate on something like this. I can't imagine you'd be the first to ask.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

As for keeping the boys in their seats - you've never heard of duct tape?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

We're currently in Rock Hall. There probably will be places in that area where I could get an estimate. I think I want to wait and play with the boat first, though, before I sink any more money into her.

To your point about totaling, yes, I agree. My wife and I will have to discuss how to proceed.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Canvas shops have the equip to bend ss piping. You may check there for comparative pricing to an ss fabricator. Something tells me the canvas shop would be less expensive, since they deal with piping every day, but don't know that.

From the looks of the pic, however, I don't really see much advantage to do this. Unless you bump out the pushpit, you're just elevating the passenger a few inches above the current cockpit seat. Will the boom come into play? I think fabricating good cushions and backrests is the way to go. JMO.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Canvas shops have the equip to bend ss piping.


Excellent recommendation, thank you! There's one at the new marina, if we ever get there; I'll start with them if I go forward.



Minnewaska said:


> From the looks of the pic, however, I don't really see much advantage to do this. Unless you bump out the pushpit, you're just elevating the passenger a few inches above the current cockpit seat. Will the boom come into play? I think fabricating good cushions and backrests is the way to go. JMO.


That's why I want to spend more time aboard before I make any commitments. I think the seat would wind up being at least 8" above the cockpit seats, and probably closer to a foot. But I need to get back aboard to figure that out.


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