# Sailing to Catalina Island



## arthursteingart (Oct 20, 2011)

I am wondering how hard it is to sail to Catalina island on a montgomery 17. I've been lake sailing for 6 years with no real training other than books and experience. I would have a working radio and auto tiller with a huge compass on deck as well. I am well equipped with sails and am comfortable with my little boat overall. I would leave from long beach and head to Catalina island the city if Avalon, than down to Laguna beach around the 4th of July. 

Should I do this trip or is Ocean sailing something not to fool with even in good weather?


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

a ~30 mile ocean passage on virtually open Pacific on a 17 foot trailer sailor....*ooph* not my idea of fun. Especially with a background in lake sailing where there are no ocean swells and surf. I guess some M17s have made impressive passages, but they've been significantly upgraded. Good little boat, but doubt its designed to handle the open ocean like a hardier vessel. 

I'm sure its been done by many a yachtsman, hell I've seen videos on YouTube of people making hte passage from Miami to Bimini on jet-skis. But please, if you do this trip, have a means of bailing your boat (strong bilge pumps), lots of ocean worthy pfds, a EPIRB or PLB at a minimum, a well running tuned outboard engine, and file a float plan with friends and family. Also, most importantly, please choose a good weather window.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

it is doable in that boat. In July the wind will be good for the sail. mostly it depends on your experiance. the sea between long beach and cat lsland is called Hurricane Gulch for a reason. it is the ocean so it can get big weather but most of the time it is a very good place to sail. in the afternoon the chop can be a bit much for small boats. I would think you might want to do some daysailing off the coast of long beach to see if you are ready for the ocean before heading to Catalina. for first timers I suggest starting out early and motoring until the wind picks up. in the moring it will be flat water and you will get halfway before the wind comes up. most days this will be up wind to the island. the trip home is the fun one, usually broad reach with following seas.


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## arthursteingart (Oct 20, 2011)

I forgot to mention I just bought an 8 HP four-stroke Johnson with no hours on it. This will aid in my safe trip to Catalina. I also have manual and electric bailers. 

I'm also worried about getting accurate bearings to avalon on a compass and how do i take current into account or is that mute due to the auto tiller?


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## wmjr (Mar 1, 2000)

Be very sure to have confidence in predicted wave size and wind and do not go if it will be too rough. Practice sailing to San Pedro and back inside the breakwater and then outside several times then practice using the compass on a trip to Redondo Beach and back. If you are comfortable with your compass by then you will be fine for the trip to Catalina. In July it will be easy to see when you are 6 or 7 miles out. (In Winter you might see it clearly when you leave.)

Got a radio?

John
PSC 31 #28
San Pedro, CA


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## arthursteingart (Oct 20, 2011)

Yes, i have a great onboard radio. Thank you for the advise so far. I am wondering the usual direction of the wind durning that time of year.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

arthursteingart said:


> I'm also worried about getting accurate bearings to avalon on a compass and how do i take current into account or is that mute due to the auto tiller?


This sounds like a good reason to do some shorter coastal trips to see how your boat handles those conditions. Practice some dead reckoning. Sail out a few miles and then back on a reciprocal heading (original heading + 180°). See how far off you are. If you have a way of finding out the current for the time of day you were sailing, subtract that out. What's left is your boat's leeway.

You'll also get a chance to see how well your tiller pilot steers your boat in the swells.

When sailing upwind to the island, you will need to manually take into account both current and leeway. All your tiller pilot will do for you is try to maintain a constant magnetic compass heading.

I haven't sailed in California but I have gone out on small boats in Hawai'i and Mexico, and the difference between morning and afternoon conditions can be quite surprising.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

Here you go.... A couple of videos showing that you're probably quite alright to do this in your Monty.

Outrigger Canoe Sailing - Channel Islands - Running Furled in Gale - YouTube

Outrigger Canoe Sailing - Channel Islands - Full Sail Downwind - YouTube!

This fellow also has many other noteworthy videos, and some of his stuff can be found on instructables.com. If you do a search for Tim Anderson on the instructables website you will find plenty of interesting things.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

PaulfromNWOnt said:


> Here you go.... A couple of videos showing that you're probably quite alright to do this in your Monty.


Cool videos. However, minor differences:

- downwind vs. upwind

- high form stability of outrigger, vs. probably low form stability of the Monty.

Personally I think the OP is probably fine to go once he has some familiarity with the conditions he'll encounter.


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## n0w0rries (May 17, 2009)

I think a GPS should be pretty high up on your needed safety gear list. They are so cheap now-a-days that if you can't afford it, you certainly can't afford drinks in Avalon. Even if you're a great navigator, nothing will save you faster than being able to communicate an accurate location to rescuers. Most days visibility can be pretty bad, and you'll spend most of your channel crossing not being able to see land at all.

Prevailing conditions would be the wind blowing from the island, so you'll be beating all the way there. A lot of locals leave early and motor over, and then sail back. The wind usually picks up in the afternoon, blowing 10-20 knots, with gusts to 25 knots. The swell is usually on your beam.

If you end up anchoring you'll need lots of ground tackle. The island falls off very steep. Being small you might get to squeeze in, but Avalon is always crowded.

It would be an easy sail to Laguna from Avalon. 

A guy who races with our club sailed his Cal 20 from MDR to Isthmus, but that's a beam reach the whole way.

Also keep in mind you will be traversing shipping lanes.

I always go to the Isthmus, we usually motor across early. One time we got a late start and the wind was already blowing, and we made it across on one long beautiful tack. Our friends showed up later with wide eyes and said it was nasty out there, wind was right out of the island now.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I sailed there a few days ago from MDR- the previous post is right- one long tack. I don't know how it will be from LB. The mooring at Ishmus Harbor cost $32 for one night. That was on a Sunday night. I imagine Avalon will be more costly, and I've heard it is extremely crowded on the 4th and you have to reserve a spot, unless you are anchoring somewhere. Also bring a kayak or dinghy as the water taxi is $5 per person per trip.


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## GMFL (Jun 9, 2010)

The sail from Long beach shouldn't be too much different than from MDR once they round the Palos Verdes point. You should still be on a reach, maybe a close reach but not dead into the wind for sure. Obviously it depends, but that time a year it's pretty consistent.

Also, just FYI, Laguna doesn't have a harbor. IF that is what you would need, try Newport or Dana Point. Newport has a nice fireworks show on the Forth, I'm sure DP does too.

Most likely you won't get a mooring at Avalon around the Forth, you might have more luck at the Isthmus.

BTW, Magnetic course to the ISTHMUS from Los Angeles Light is 204 deg.


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## glassdad (Feb 21, 2009)

You won't get a mooring in Avalon on July 4th. The moorings are private and the city rents them out if the owner is not using them. But, every mooring is either loaned to a friend or taken by boats that arrive earlier in the week. Plan on anchoring in 50' to 100' of water. Yes that is close in.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Very doable - by extra experienced sailors.


1) practice sailing in Long Beach inside the breakwater then

2) Practice sailing outside the breakwater then

3) sail Long Beach to Newport Harbor and then back then 

4) sail Long Beach to MDR then


This post can not go into the major safety items you need to have on board when going in an open small boat in the Ocean, but imagine the boat swamps and you are in 58 degree water for 4 hours.


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## arthursteingart (Oct 20, 2011)

I plan on anchoring outside Laguna 300 yards from the beach. Ive heard from locals it's legal. Do you know anything about it?


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## GMFL (Jun 9, 2010)

arthursteingart said:


> I plan on anchoring outside Laguna 300 yards from the beach. Ive heard from locals it's legal. Do you know anything about it?


I don't know if it's legal or not but don't know why one would want to. Laguna is not very protected and, of course this area is a windward shore.

A popular spot to anchor out during the day is Emerald Bay (I think, I'll double check) which is between Newport and Laguna. Again, not sure if it's legal overnight, still not very protected though.

I know you can anchor off Newport just south of the jetties (actually it's Corona Del Mar) You can stay there for 24 hours I believe as long as someone is on the boat. But if you're in Newport, might as well stay in the bay at the anchorage for free, I think they let you stay for five days.


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## rigbee (Sep 27, 2008)

If your up to it then I'm sure the Monty is. If Robert Manry in Tinkerbelle can do the Atlantic, then proper preparation and experience will get you there in a Monty.
Best of luck!


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## Lothario (Sep 18, 2012)

Prevailing conditions would be the wind blowing from the island, so you'll be beating all the way there. A lot of locals leave early and motor over, and then sail back. The wind usually picks up in the afternoon, blowing 10-20 knots, with gusts to 25 knots. The swell is usually on your beam.

Hi, I thought prevailing winds was nw to the island from long beach, so it would seem to be a pretty easy run going there..


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## meteuz (May 13, 2010)

I think 8HP might be a bit too much engine for the M17. I see most people using 4-5HP. Extra HP does not get you more speed with sailboats, but could hurt sailing performance. You generally don't want to weight down the ends of a boat.

There is no question that the M17 is up to the challenge. The question is are you? With 6 years of experience, I would say that you should be ready. It might be a bit outside your comfort zone, but that is how to grow. It is definitely not suicidal. Make sure you are comfortable reefing, and reef early.


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## ericb760 (Apr 11, 2012)

I'd skip Avalon altogether, especially on a holiday weekend. You'll likely not get a bouy unless you have *VERY GOOD*connections, so you'll be herded in to the "bullpen" adjacent to the harbor where you'l be exposed to weather 24/7, and your little boat will get continually tossed by larger boat wakes. I'd stick with Two Harbors and areas adjacent to it. There are several small coves North of there that offer some protection. As stated, the best plan is to go early, like three days early.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Considering that this thread is over two years old and the Original Poster (aka "OP") hasn't reappeared anywhere on SailNet since he started the thread, he either made it, or didn't, by this time, eh?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

overbored said:


> it is doable in that boat. In July the wind will be good for the sail. mostly it depends on your experiance. the sea between long beach and cat lsland is called Hurricane Gulch for a reason. it is the ocean so it can get big weather but most of the time it is a very good place to sail. in the afternoon the chop can be a bit much for small boats. I would think you might want to do some daysailing off the coast of long beach to see if you are ready for the ocean before heading to Catalina. for first timers I suggest starting out early and motoring until the wind picks up. in the moring it will be flat water and you will get halfway before the wind comes up. most days this will be up wind to the island. the trip home is the fun one, usually broad reach with following seas.


hurricane gulch is a section of port of lost angels between angels gate and the punta in san pedro on which the ports o call stores are on. not the channel between catalina and lost angels. that is called san pedro or santa barbara channel depending on whether you go to the island from ventura or from long beach.
it isnt such a bad trip unless you have sudden weather, or unless you are not provisioned well. 
i have done that crossing many times..flat water, disastrous water and in between. it is not to be taken lightly , but, it is also fun sailing in good conditions.
watch your weather window and have fun.


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## ericb760 (Apr 11, 2012)

svHyLyte said:


> Considering that this thread is over two years old and the Original Poster (aka "OP") hasn't reappeared anywhere on SailNet since he started the thread, he either made it, or didn't, by this time, eh?


Doh! I often forget to look at the date of the original thread.


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