# U.S. coast guard searching for ship near Bahamas



## krisscross

The U.S. Coast Guard said on Friday it was searching for a 735-foot cargo ship with 33 crew aboard reported to be caught in powerful Hurricane Joaquin near Crooked Island, Bahamas.

The container ship El Faro was en route to San Juan, Puerto Rico from Jacksonville, Florida when the Coast Guard received a satellite notification that the ship had lost propulsion and was listing heavily. The crew reported flooding had been contained.
U.S. coast guard searching for ship near Bahamas


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## MarkofSeaLife

I have its track and last position but can't upload it on this stupid phone 

Just can't understand what they were doing there in the first place.


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## CLucas

Last known position from Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions - AIS Marine Traffic...

Position Recorded on:
2015-10-01 04:01:13 (UTC)
Lat/Lon:
26.21038 / -76.3353
Speed/Course:
1.9 kn / 153°

Prayers for the crews' safety, and to Mark's point, what the heck were they doing there?


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## MarkofSeaLife

he vessel has 391 containers topside and 294 cars, trucks and trailers below deck. That cargo makes the listing problems even worse at sea,


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## krisscross

One reason for a course change might be the sea conditions. They have to take waves only in a certain way. If they had shifting cargo/leakage problem that would make even more sense. These ships are so seriously undermanned that any emergency quickly turns into a disaster.


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## JonEisberg

MarkofSeaLife said:


> he vessel has 391 containers topside and 294 cars, trucks and trailers below deck. That cargo makes the listing problems even worse at sea,


She's 40 years old, with open-top, non-self-launching lifeboats...

Not a good combination, I'm afraid...


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## blowinstink

Talk about a tough business. Marine traffic reports that she departed Jacksonville on the 29th @2100hrs -- basically sailing right into the teeth of the developing Joaquin (which intensified rapidly). They knew it was there -- they went anyway.


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## JimsCAL

MarkofSeaLife said:


> he vessel has 391 containers topside and 294 cars, trucks and trailers below deck. That cargo makes the listing problems even worse at sea,


Not correct Mark. This ship is operated by Tote which is a major experienced ship operator. I have not doubt a loading stability analysis was done and the ballast tanks filled as necessary. The Listing tells me that they may have lost some boxes overboard, not that there was a problem with the initial cargo loading.

FWIW I spent several years in my 20s as an engineering officer on container ships including some time on the same run this ship was on.


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## JonEisberg

blowinstink said:


> Talk about a tough business. Marine traffic reports that she departed Jacksonville on the 29th @2100hrs -- basically sailing right into the teeth of the developing Joaquin (which intensified rapidly). They knew it was there -- they went anyway.


On the other hand, the Old Bahama Channel route might have been a comparative cakewalk, on the fringes of least dangerous quadrant of the storm...

I can only assume they might have been banking on the storm starting to move off to the N sooner... Their reported proximity to Crooked Island makes me wonder whether they might have been attempting to run off to the Crooked Island Passage in an effort to gain the least dangerous quadrant, and the lee of Crooked and Acklins... And, who knows, they might have been fine, until the loss of power...

Fundamental rule of seamanship: Don't forget to ask yourself _"What If...???_


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze

No matter the cause this again illustrates the hazards of those who navigate the seas. My prayers go out to the ship and crew.


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## mbianka

What's puzzling is the lack of communication. They must of had multiple means not just a cruisers complement of VHF and a AIS. Hard to imagine them all going down at the same time. Most of the crew must have handhelds too. My class B AIS can send a distress message with the push of a button. I'm sure their class A unit can do the same only better. I'm hoping once the hurricane moves on they find them pretty quickly.


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## Waterrat

Its tough going when you are always on a schedule. There is a lot of pressure to maintain schedule. Around the 29th both the US and European weather models had Joaquin heading north up the US east coast. Not that the models are that accurate and hurricanes are notorious for not following what the models predict. Sounds like Jon might have nailed some of the thought process of the captain. They may have even thought of his what if but had a schedule to keep. Hard and dangerous business. Hard to judge from a cruiser/leisure sailors perspective. I really hope all souls survive.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Quite frankly, if the US navy can't spot a 700 foot ship 100kms from Florida's coast, and there's no comms at all then I think the ship is lost. Turned turtle and sank.

Sorry. But that's the only reasonable explanation. Isn't it?


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Quite frankly, if the US navy can't spot a 700 foot ship 100kms from Florida's coast, and there's no comms at all then I think the ship is lost. Turned turtle and sank.
> 
> Sorry. But that's the only reasonable explanation. Isn't it?


That is certainly a possibility. One thing I was looking at is some recent photos of the 40 year old ship. It looks odd like it is sagging in the middle. The stern section especially looks like it is tilting down toward amidships. Articles say it was refit in 2006? Was it lengthened? Maybe catastrophic weld failure? Might explain the initial leakage too. Though I hope we will get some good news if Joaquin gets out of the way


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## mbianka

Waterrat said:


> Its tough going when you are always on a schedule. There is a lot of pressure to maintain schedule. Around the 29th both the US and European weather models had Joaquin heading north up the US east coast. Not that the models are that accurate and hurricanes are notorious for not following what the models predict. Sounds like Jon might have nailed some of the thought process of the captain. They may have even thought of his what if but had a schedule to keep. Hard and dangerous business. Hard to judge from a cruiser/leisure sailors perspective. I really hope all souls survive.


Indeed another BOUNTY type decision that hopefully won't end as badly. I always think back to my younger days when I hear about things like this. It seemed I always got into the most trouble when I felt I was under a schedule i.e. limited vacation time, weekend etc... Once I got out of the "gotta, gotta" mindset it made for much more pleasant and less stressful/costly sailing.


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## krisscross

It is scary how many freighters are lost each year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_2014


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## mbianka

krisscross said:


> It is scary how many freighters are lost each year.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_2014


Joaquin grabbed another cargo ship on Thursday this one north of Haiti but, this had a happy ending: Twelve Rescued After Abandoning Ship North of Haiti During Hurricane Joaquin - gCaptain


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## MarkofSeaLife

mbianka said:


> It seemed I always got into the most trouble when I felt I was under a schedule i.e. limited vacation time, weekend etc... Once I got out of the "gotta, gotta" mindset it made for much more pleasant and less stressful/costly sailing.


Yes, crossing in front of a hurricane between a shore and the hurricane is crackers. And a 40 year old ship does.t have engi e trouble for the first time... I bet they have a problem record a mile long.

Just hope they are ok.

As for that design feature: was that common at that time?


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Yes, crossing in front of a hurricane between a shore and the hurricane is crackers. And a 40 year old ship does.t have engi e trouble for the first time... I bet they have a problem record a mile long.
> 
> Just hope they are ok.
> 
> As for that design feature: was that common at that time?


Not sure about the design but, it did look odd to me. Almost like the weight of superstructure was bending the hull downward. I do not recall ever noticing the tilted stern on other cargo ships. But, it maybe was the design of the times it was built. The look of it just jumped out at me. Maybe those with freighter experience here can shed some light on the design.


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## MarkofSeaLife

GCaptain update:


"Coast Guard search operations were suspended overnight and resumed at first light this morning.

Search and rescue assets deployed include three C130 aircraft, a USCG Helo helicopter, a Navy P-8 aircraft, the USCG Cutter Northland, USCG Cutter Resolute and a Navy ship. Three commercial tugs are also enroute to the search location, according to an update Saturday morning from TOTE Maritime."


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## MarkofSeaLife

The ship is a roro, roll on, roll off. So that may be why she looks like she does.

And, Mike, you were right, she was extended some years ago.

Info from gCaptain forum.

No trace yet, no debris.


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## JimsCAL

mbianka said:


> Not sure about the design but, it did look odd to me. Almost like the weight of superstructure was bending the hull downward. I do not recall ever noticing the tilted stern on other cargo ships. But, it maybe was the design of the times it was built. The look of it just jumped out at me. Maybe those with freighter experience here can shed some light on the design.


Wow, internet spectulation gone wild! Here's some facts. This ship is classed by ABS. That means the design is checked by them and the ship must undergo periodic surveys of the hull, machinery systems, etc. to remain insured. Conjecture that the hull is sagging due to the weight of the superstructure is just silly. This ship was lengthened about 90 feet in 1993 a very common modification. I suspect that's what you are seeing. Here's the current ABS record for the El Faro.
ABS Record


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## mbianka

JimsCAL said:


> Wow, internet spectulation gone wild! Here's some facts. This ship is classed by ABS. That means the design is checked by them and the ship must undergo periodic surveys of the hull, machinery systems, etc. to remain insured. Conjecture that the hull is sagging due to the weight of the superstructure is just silly. This ship was lengthened about 90 feet in 1993 a very common modification. I suspect that's what you are seeing. Here's the current ABS record for the El Faro.
> ABS Record


Never assumed it was sagging because of the weight of the super structure. It just had that appearance because of the way the aft section tilted forward.


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## JonEisberg

MarkofSeaLife said:


> The ship is a roro, roll on, roll off. So that may be why she looks like she does.
> 
> And, Mike, you were right, she was extended some years ago.


A poster on gCaptain who sailed on her 20 years ago, when she was in service as the NORTHERN LIGHTS making the PNW to Alaska run, described her as "the best heavy weather ship I have ever sailed on..."

I'm a bit perplexed that she keeps getting referred to in various reports as a roll-on/roll-off vessel... While it's true she was carrying vehicles belowdecks, she certainly doesn't appear very similar to what most would consider to be a 'typical' modern ro/ro ship, with their massive transom loading doors, and incredibly boxy design...


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## mikel1

Anybody see the f-book/tube video of one of those ships in a storm? They had a camera on deck and inside looking down a long hallway . . . The flexing was unbelievable . . . . Scary as hell . . . They said it was "normal". Wow.


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## sugarbird

That's a car carrier you have pictured, not a cargo RoRo vessel (which is designed primarily to carry cargo trailers). El Faro and her sisterships were designed as RoRo ships about 40 years ago and have sailed many, many safe and swift miles under load. None of us know the whys and wherefores, but it would seem at this point to be another poor choice/wrong decision to try to sneak around a hurricane based on a projected path, and then getting caught when the storm takes a different course than expected. Still hoping for a miraculous recovery, but every hour the USCG doesn't report spotting a 730' ship the worse it looks.


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## JimsCAL

Here's an interesting story about the ship when it was called the Northern Lights.
http://www.ndtahq.com/images/pdf/northernlights.pdf

This all brings back memories of my time as an engineering officer on cargo ships during the Vietnam War. We carried full ship loads of munitions (500lb bombs, napalm) into various ports in South Vietnam. A classmate of mine on a similar ship during the same period lost his life when the ship he was on sank after the cargo shifted in heavy weather.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Life ring found 70nms north of last reported position.
Reference given is USCG via Fox News via gCaptain.com forum.

Some think this is good news... I think it devastating news but I don't know the actual conditions in the search area. Also must remember if a life ring gets airborne or rolls on its edge, it cod get along way from the ship or other debris.


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## krisscross

The water is still fairly warm in that area. Maybe there are some survivors, but the ship is most likely down below.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Official: Life Ring Found

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...argo-ship-caught-in-hurricane-joaquin-unknown

Unofficial: from the bridge house of the ship.
From gCaptain.

By the way, for those that don't know gCaptain is a very good professional mariners forum. Obviously has the vagaries of the internet, but often has people with personal information when it comes to ships.

Mark


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## Group9

They found a life ring, but they can't find a cargo ship? That doesn't sound very good.


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## mbianka

No EPIRB signal sent could mean things went from bad to worse very fast. Though it would seem to make sense to have at least one breakaway water activated EPIRB somewhere outside on the bridge deck. In case a ship goes down before anyone can activate a manual one. Would have be real helpful in a situation like this. I traveled on a freighter back 2005 as a passenger and am not sure if I saw one outside the bridge or not. I thought there might have been something there but, it was a long time ago and the memory fades.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Mike, an EPIRB signal was received by the USCG but it was one, isolated epirb signal. (There needs to be better clarification on what 'first' signal means, the one with just carrier wave or the first with GPS.)

That was when the ship was first in distress onThursday . No signal since Thursday.


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## MastUndSchotbruch

JimsCAL said:


> Here's an interesting story about the ship when it was called the Norhern Lights.
> http://www.ndtahq.com/images/pdf/northernlights.pdf
> 
> This all brings back memories of my time as an engineering officer on cargo ships during the Vietnam War. We carried full ship loads of munitions (500lb bombs, napalm) in various ports in South Vietnam. A classmate of mine on a similar ship during the same period lost his life when the ship he was on sank after the cargo shifted in heavy weather.


Thank you for posting the link.

I hope the crew is safe though it does not look good.


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Mike, an EPIRB signal was received by the USCG but it was one, isolated epirb signal. (There needs to be better clarification on what 'first' signal means, the one with just carrier wave or the first with GPS.)
> 
> That was when the ship was first in distress onThursday . No signal since Thursday.


Yeah that's a strange thing why it would stop transmitting or if it was a real EPIRB not some other type of signaling device. If they did activate an EPIRB I doubt they would have turned it off. Especially if all there other comms were non functioning. As I posted earlier another cargo ship north of Haiti the same day had all their crew rescued after taking to the life rafts. The mystery of what happened to El Faro is very puzzling. Still hoping for the best outcome. Hopefully today will bring some better news.

As for the life ring being found. I tip my hat to the U.S. Coast Guard searchers who spotted the life ring as coming from the El Faro. Must have good optics and good eyes to do that! I know I probably could never do it.
Real pros IMO.


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## MarkofSeaLife

EPIRBs can't transmit through a few hundred feet of water.


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> EPIRBs can't transmit through a few hundred feet of water.


Indeed but, jeez you would think an 800 foot commercial cargo ship would have at least one with a hydro static release. Maybe a life raft or two if it's not too much to ask. Hell I bet some cruisers even have them on their boats. A modern day 800 foot cargo ship should not just disappear for three days with only life ring left on the surface.


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## guitarguy56

Hope she is found... hope the crew are fine and in a lifeboat which has not been located yet. 

She foundered in very deep waters as shown in the map... so if so it will be some time before she is located in the depths of the Bahamas,


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## MarkofSeaLife

Interesting bit: (unconfirmed officially)

"3 life rings , life jacket and a container were found floating . The tug couldn't get a container number to verify it was of the El faro"

Only one life ring was confirmed from El Faro. So the others could be, or could have just been gloating out there.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Bad news: oil slick found.
USCG release: http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/2607474/


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## Capt Len

Float release EPIRB s often get caught up and under a quickly capsizing vessel. So does crew and life boats.


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Bad news: oil slick found.
> USCG release: Update 4: Coast Guard searching for missing container ship caught in Hurricane Joaquin


Damn! So sad for the families of the missing mariners.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Certainly is, Mike.
USCG have identified a 225 square mile debris area. So if the life ring was 70mms from the last position 225 sq miles would be 4nms x 70nms 
And that is kinda what one would expect in 2 days of 100 knot winds.

In modern disaster management some suggest they hold out hope for far longer than hope is possible. I think its to placate the media and families that a search won't be called off prematurely. (Remember Nina and the Malaysian aircraft lost off Australia which they are still searching for... or they were till a bit of wing washed up on Rodriguez island a few weeks ago.)

Yes, there's still a slim chance one of the lifeboats was launched with the 15 degree list (which is a lot for a ship) and we can hope its in the debris field. But such a slim chance after today's good weather for searching aircraft.


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## krisscross

Bahamas search for lost US ship finds debris but no answers


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## JonEisberg

The news from the CG press conference this morning is very bleak...

Lifeboat found, "heavily damaged"...

A "handful" of survival suits found, "unidentifiable human remains" found inside one of them...


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## JonEisberg

sugarbird said:


> That's a car carrier you have pictured, not a cargo RoRo vessel (which is designed primarily to carry cargo trailers). El Faro and her sisterships were designed as RoRo ships about 40 years ago and have sailed many, many safe and swift miles under load.


Thanks for that correction...

A poster on gCaptain served on LURLINE of the Matson Line, a near sister to EL FARO... He suspects that the side loading ramp might have been stove in or compromised, but in the pics I've seen of the ship, the exact location or height of such a door or ramp is not immediately apparent to me...


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## barnacle billy

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/u...c=edit_na_20151005&nlid=60182079&ref=cta&_r=0


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## mbianka

JonEisberg said:


> The news from the CG press conference this morning is very bleak...
> 
> Lifeboat found, "heavily damaged"...
> 
> A "handful" of survival suits found, "unidentifiable human remains" found inside one of them...


Well at least one of the crew had time to get into a "survival suit" but, sadly did not make it. Sobering to think that even after donning a "survival suit" in 85 degree F water the chances of survival may still only be 50/50. Still hoping maybe others of the crew had better luck and might be found soon. Saw a report they had about 46 suits on board and so far have spotted about half of them.


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## krisscross

Very sobering. These were all highly skilled and well trained mariners.


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## mbianka

krisscross said:


> Very sobering. These were all highly skilled and well trained mariners.


Indeed, when I did my freighter trip ten years ago we also participated in emergency drills as passengers. This included getting into a survival suit. Also got into the Life Boat (enclosed) they did not drop it though. In one port they actually deployed it as part of a drill with several crew members inside. I imagine the El Faro crew probably also went through the similar drills every week.


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## MarkofSeaLife

CG says ship has sink.

Remains in survival suit "unidentifiable" and (?nearby?) life boat may suggest that lifeboat bashing on the side of the ship while being launched.

Can you swim in a survival suit?
When we body surf we dive under the waves. With boyancy you are at the mercy of the white water and the crashing wave.

Such a terrible tragedy.

I know on forums people get shotty when we discuss why things happen but why do mariners, ships, sailboats etc often fail the first laws of boats: 
weather is stronger than you;
Don't get on a lee shore
get sea room 
What are you going to do of propulsion quits when abusing the above 3 rules?


Bounty could have stayed in port. El Faro could have stayed in port OR diverted through New Providence Channel OR gone up the Peuroto Rican Trench south of the Bahamas.

Another similarity, both very experienced captains on old ships.

By the way, the shipping company keeps saying it wasn't the captains fault it was the weather's fault. What thoughts?


Mark


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## Don L

MarkofSeaLife said:


> By the way, the shipping company keeps saying it wasn't the captains fault it was the weather's fault. What thoughts?


The weather was just the bullet, but one shouldn't go running across the shooting range.

I bet this is another classic case of a schedule overriding the right choice.


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## tweitz

The report from the shipping company was that the captain planned on avoiding the storm but the ship experienced engine problems ad could not get out of the way.


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## MarkofSeaLife

The Captain of the Bounty planned to avoid hurricane Sandy too....


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## krisscross

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Remains in survival suit "unidentifiable" and (?nearby?) life boat may suggest that lifeboat bashing on the side of the ship while being launched.


 or shark attack?


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## mbianka

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I know on forums people get shotty when we discuss why things happen but why do mariners, ships, sailboats etc often fail the first laws of boats:
> weather is stronger than you;
> Don't get on a lee shore
> get sea room
> What are you going to do of propulsion quits when abusing the above 3 rules?
> 
> By the way, the shipping company keeps saying it wasn't the captains fault it was the weather's fault. What thoughts?
> 
> Mark


There's a quote from Robert Green Ingersoll that I think of often when things look like they may not be favorable for my plans. It goes:

_"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences."
_
It is always sobering reminder when I think I may want to push off but, things may not the most favorable. I think it applies in this case too. The Captain may have thought he could squeeze by the Hurricane when things were running normally on his ship. He was an experienced Captain and probably saw his share of bad weather, knew his ship could handle it when things were running normally. He probably was right. But, he did not factor a loss of propulsion when starting out from Tampa. I understand they had two boilers on board but, were only operating with one. When that shutdown it pretty much doomed the ship. Which brings me to another adage I try to incorporate when I cruise which is "Always have a backup" or at least mull over some "what if scenarios". Looks there were not enough options and not enough time on El Faro once things went bad.


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## MedSailor

MarkofSeaLife said:


> By the way, the shipping company keeps saying it wasn't the captains fault it was the weather's fault. What thoughts?
> 
> Mark


I would think this kind of public statement is for the benefit of the insurance lawyers. "act of God" is likely a better position for the company than "pilot error."

MedSailor


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## miatapaul

krisscross said:


> It is scary how many freighters are lost each year.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_2014


All I can say is WOW I had no idea. I figured there was a few a year not anywhere near that many. Of course there are a lot more ships out there than one ever really thinks about.


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## guitarguy56

Here is the list of the crew members who lost their lives on the sinking of El Faro... Please give a minute of silence for these sailors and fellow seamen/seawomen.

Louis Champa -- Palm Coast, Florida
Roosevelt Clark -- Jacksonville, Florida
Sylvester Crawford Jr. -- Lawrenceville, Georgia
Michael Davidson -- Windham, Maine
Brookie Davis -- Jacksonville, Florida
Keith Griffin -- Fort Myers, Florida
Frank Hamm -- Jacksonville, Florida
Joe Hargrove -- Orange Park, Florida
Carey Hatch -- Jacksonville, Florida
Michael Holland -- North Wilton, Maine
Jack Jackson -- Jacksonville, Florida
Jackie Jones, Jr. -- Jacksonville, Florida
Lonnie Jordan -- Jacksonville, Florida
Piotr Krause -- Poland
Mitchell Kuflik -- Brooklyn, New York
Roan Lightfoot -- Jacksonville Beach, Florida
Jeffrey Mathias -- Kingston, Massachusetts
Dylan Meklin -- Rockland, Maine
Marcin Nita -- Poland
Jan Podgorski -- Poland
James Porter -- Jacksonville, Florida
Richard Pusatere -- Virginia Beach, Virginia
Theodore Quammie -- Jacksonville, Florida
Danielle Randolph -- Rockland, Massachusetts
Jeremie Riehm -- Camden, Delaware
Lashawn Rivera -- Jacksonville, Florida
Howard Schoenly -- Cape Coral, Florida
Steven Shultz -- Roan Mountain, Tennessee
German Solar-Cortes -- Orlando, Florida
Anthony Thomas -- Jacksonville, Florida
Andrzej Truszkowski -- Poland
Mariette Wright -- St. Augustine, Florida
Rafal Zdobych -- Poland

Our deepest condolences... RIP


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## Minnewaska

At first, I thought this sounded awfully familiar to the Bounty's disaster. Still, it's a tragedy. However, in this case, the vessel was sound and I understand the Captain radioed ahead and was given a passable report, by another ship. 

It lost propulsion, which is undoubtedly what ultimately took them down. Of course, they could have stayed in port or diverted too. As things cooked up, they would have had some options, if the screw was still turning.

I want to know more about "losing propulsion". Was there only one motor and shaft?


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## JimMcGee

Minnewaska said:


> I want to know more about "losing propulsion". Was there only one motor and shaft?


The first reports I heard talked about a breached hatch and down flooding that caused a loss of power.

I don't know if later reports confirmed this. The "facts" tend to evolve in these types of accidents...


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## mbianka

JimMcGee said:


> The first reports I heard talked about a breached hatch and down flooding that caused a loss of power.
> 
> I don't know if later reports confirmed this. The "facts" tend to evolve in these types of accidents...


I am still bothered by how the decks seem to tilt down toward the the super structure. Especially the aft end of the ship. I keep thinking the torrential rains experienced in the Hurricane pouring down on the deck and collecting against the superstructure might be the cause of the flooding if some hatch came undone or was opened and unable to be closed because of the force of the water against it. I guess a look with an ROV would be able to confirm if any hatches were open or missing when the ship went down.


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## JonEisberg

Looks like EL FARO was not the only vessel and crew lost recently after sailing in close proximity to a tropical storm...

A brand-new Beneteau Oceanis 60, and her crew of 5, has disappeared on a delivery from Hong Kong to the Phillipines, after meeting with a typhoon the skipper initially believed would "fizzle out", according to this report...

http://www.sail-world.com/Hong-Kong-yacht-missing-on-South-China-Sea-delivery/139011


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## JimsCAL

Minnewaska said:


> A
> It lost propulsion, which is undoubtedly what ultimately took them down. Of course, they could have stayed in port or diverted too. As things cooked up, they would have had some options, if the screw was still turning.
> 
> I want to know more about "losing propulsion". Was there only one motor and shaft?


This was a steam ship. Propulsion plant is two boilers, a pair of steam turbines (high pressure and low pressure, a single reduction gear, and a single shaft and propeller. I spent four years of my life operating plants exactly like that.

While pure speculation on my part, I suspect they lost power, then due to rolling, lost some boxes overboard and some hatch covers came loose. At that point, it was only a matter of time before she was done for.


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## inshallamiami

Excellent article:

We Won't Learn Anything: What Sank El Faro and What Didn't - gCaptain


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## MarkofSeaLife

Brilliant article!
Mario really is excellent. You w/o Remember his great work on the Bounty inquiry.

And in this article he doesn't mince words...
"Phil Greene of Tote Maritime made the further assertion that the ship losing power is what ultimately led to the tragedy. This was more evidence of a culture of flawed risk management at Tote. Ships lose power all the time; they don?t sink because of it. Losing power is a possibility that ship owners and operators are supposed to have a written plan for. In fact, it?s the law. "


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## Group9

JonEisberg said:


> Looks like EL FARO was not the only vessel and crew lost recently after sailing in close proximity to a tropical storm...
> 
> A brand-new Beneteau Oceanis 60, and her crew of 5, has disappeared on a delivery from Hong Kong to the Phillipines, after meeting with a typhoon the skipper initially believed would "fizzle out", according to this report...
> 
> Sail World - Hong Kong yacht missing on South China Sea delivery


Sometimes, I think you just have to have actually been in a hurricane to know how bad they are. I remember going through my first one (a Cat 3 on land) and finding out that it was much, much, worse than anything I had imagined.


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## Minnewaska

There is a great book by Ed Viesturs, No Shortcuts to the Top. He's the most accomplished American mountain climber and turned back from his first summit attempt on Everest when just a few hundred feet away (he has since summitted Everest something like 7 times). He had reached what he knew was the safe time of day to begin his descent. 

The premise of the book is how one knows the safe decisions they should make, when sitting in the comfort of their living room. Those that climb safely are the ones that make those same decisions, when actually faced with the situation. 

The concept applies to all endeavors that require risk management. Great read.


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## krisscross

US Merchant Marine companies are all struggling to stay alive in the face of stiff competition from foreign companies, especially Russian cargo fleet. In this environment decisions are often made that push the envelope in order to save the bottom line. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a huge factor in this this tragedy.


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## hpeer

Perhaps not. This is a Jones Act route. IIRC any route between US ports MUST be done by a US flag vessel with a US crew. 

Can someone more in the know confirm or deny that?


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