# Safety on board when sailing alone



## jjarman123

I am a complete novice. I've never sailed but my brother is going to teach me all he knows which is quite a bit. He has been racing boats for umpteen years. My plan is when I retire to buy a sailboat and live aboard in the Caribbean. I'm doing all my research now as it is a good 12 years until I can retire unless I win the lottery or find some long lost relative who just left me their fortune, lol.

I will most likely be doing all this alone and I am good with that. I am very self-efficient and am not afraid to do all this on my own. My one concern is safety. I plan on having my pistol with me and really more than one. I am not sure what the laws are about guns but am looking at that.

My question is though is there any kind of security system for sailboats to let you know if someone came onboard while you were asleep. I got to thinking if nothing else I could rig up a motion detector in the companionway which would be pretty simple. 

Anyone heard of this kind of thing?


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## MarkofSeaLife

Motion detectors at every hardware store about $20.

Just because many local people in the Caribbean are black it doesn't mean you need a gun. 

You need a gun more in your own country than the Caribbean. 

Yes, you can sail by yourself unless you are a compete idiot. 

12 years is self imposed. Get off your fat bum and save more money now and retire in 5 years. I retired at 48 and it was the best decision I ever made.


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## midwesterner

Many Caribbean countries don't allow guns and you could be charged with smuggling an illegal weapon into the country. I would think that a motion sensing system will be set off often by movement of the boat. You could use a trip wire to trigger an alarm if someone tries to climb your swim ladder or come over your life lines.

Lots of people travel there with little incident. Some travel in travel groups for safety.

There is Caribbean sailor's group that shares info on safe places and problem places. They communicate with one another to plan trips together or anchoring together for safety.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/341518759227037/

There is also a website where sailors share incidents of theft, vandalism and piracy to alert other sailors to problem areas.

http://www.noonsite.com/General/Piracy


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## capta

There are literally hundreds of threads on the sailing sites on security aboard and I doubt there is one definitive answer, other than having any sort of firearm aboard a cruising boat is a very, very bad idea.
They sort of frown on visitors using firearms on their citizens, even if you think it was self defense, and you most certainly will go to prison.


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## RegisteredUser

Alert dog and sharp end of a lion fish spear...
Motion detectors do lights and also audio alarms.
I suggest not making this an over-riding concern.
If you aren't comfortable, just go somewhere else.
Would you leave your dinghy outboard out by the curb where you live now?


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## cloudwarmer

Joshua Slocum used tacks. :laugh Kids' jacks would be the equivalent. 

Wondering where you'd staying the Caribbean, and if you'd sail north for the summer. I'd thought to sail north next summer then winter down south somewhere. Now I'm rethinking it--getting tired of the humidity in the southeast.


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## jwing

Of all the safety-related considerations that are related to sailboat cruising, those that are resolved with having multiple firearms aboard are the least likely to occur. 

If you like to have guns nearby, be thankful that you live in the USA, and stay there.


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## Donna_F

jjarman123 said:


> ... I plan on having my pistol with me and really more than one. I am not sure what the laws are about guns but am looking at that....


"Novice but Stubborn" under your user name. Please don't let stubbornness about firearms in foreign countries land you in jail. Chances are it will and all your research will be for nothing. Our over-excitement to be able to carry a firearm (let alone a small arsenal), does not extend outside our borders.


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## RobGallagher

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you haven't traveled much. Just the notion of being permitted to take a handgun through customs is a dead giveaway. If you feel you need a gun to protect yourself when traveling it's probably best you stay at home. You will likely end up in foreign jail.

There will always be someone stronger or more heavily armed, if one can't use one's brain to keep oneself out of trouble....

This is not a flame.


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## albrazzi

Don't rush it, use the 12 years to gain water experience any way you can, whether its the boat you cruise on or not sometimes just getting what you think you want helps develop the one you want for later. Im not sure my current is my last. If you know what I mean.

Get creative with self defense follow the advice given.


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## jjarman123

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Motion detectors at every hardware store about $20.
> 
> Just because many local people in the Caribbean are black it doesn't mean you need a gun.
> 
> You need a gun more in your own country than the Caribbean.
> 
> Yes, you can sail by yourself unless you are a compete idiot.
> 
> 12 years is self imposed. Get off your fat bum and save more money now and retire in 5 years. I retired at 48 and it was the best decision I ever made.


Trying hard not to hear snippiness in your post.

Did I say anything about black people in my post? I don't think I did and actually when I picture someone sneaking on board I see a white male in his 30s for some reason.

I am not a paranoid type person but I am realistic. I carry my pistol all the time. You just never know. I am very careful, raised with guns.

I glad you were able to retire at 48. Even if I was able to retire right now I have family obligations I can't just up and abandon (my mother is 87 and needs me).


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## jjarman123

Thank you to the ones with the kind replies. I am a total novice and am in the planning stages. That is why I am asking questions. Of course I would check the laws of the countries I am near or visiting. I'm a paralegal. I know that stuff. 

Some good advice about the motion detectors and such. That is what I plan on doing.

As for the ones who were rude, said for me to just stay home, etc., why do you have to be ugly? If you can't give helpful advice then I suggest you stay off a message board.


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## midwesterner

Traveling with a dog, outside of the US can be a hassle. The Bahamas and British Virgin Islands, and other countries, require a pet import permit which includes an APHIS health certificate and a rabies titer blood test (It requires blood to be drawn and sent to one of the certified testing centers). Even the US Virgin Islands requires a certified health certificate and a 6 month current rabies vaccination. My state only requires a rabies vaccination every two years, so the USVI has more restrictive requirements. 

So, if you want to travel with a gun or a dog, it is easier to confine your cruising to the continental United States.


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## scubadoo

just sharing my opinion for what it's worth....

I served 6 years in armed forces and members of my family belong to the NRA. I just don't see any scenario in where having a firearm on board a vessel in another Country ends successfully. If the intruder possesses a firearm, he has already made the decision to use it due to desperation. Unless you can disarm him with a single shot on a rocking boat, expect to see plenty of return fire. If the intruder is not in possession of a firearm there are many more safer, persuasive means of getting them off your boat other than brandishing a firearm in a foreign Country. You'll find many great counter tactics on this forum during your research.

Safe travels -


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## MarkofSeaLife

Just go cruising in the Caribbean like everyone else. 


What makes you need to look like Rambo when no one else does or needs to? 

Reality is the price of rum, not anything else. 


Mark


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## BillMoran

Man ... a lot of people getting snippy about the question.

The fact is that carrying a firearm on a boat these days is complicated and difficult. Laws change each time you change ports. As a foreigner, if you ever _use_ the weapon you're going to have a lot of trouble with the local authorities.

But there is a _really_ good reason _not_ to have a gun on board when you cruise. And I've heard this repeated over and over again by many, many experienced cruisers: 99.99% of the people who would board your boat with malicious intent can be scared off with a spotlight. Stories of people being shot because they came out of their cabin brandishing a gun and caused panic in the boarders are frequent. Stories of cruisers keeping watch in the cockpit in sketchy anchorages and the simple act of them shining a spotlight was enough to scare away suspicious persons are numerous. Stories of people spending totally safe, uneventful nights in anchorages are so frequently it would be impossible to count them.

Stories of anyone protecting themselves with a gun while on a sailboat are non-existent. I've never heard a single one. If you know of any stories of this tactic being useful in the last 20 years, I'd be interested to hear it.

So, the reason for not carrying a gun is simple statistics: The chances of you needing it are near zero. The chances that attempting to use it will make the situation worse are small, but existent. And the chances that it will actually protect you are so small that there are no recorded incidences of it. Add to that the likelihood that it will prevent you from entering certain harbors, and make entry complicated in many more ... well, it just doesn't seem practical.

An experienced captain explained his theory on why this is the case: Cruisers bring money to the local economy, so those economies have a vested interest in keeping cruisers coming in; and cruisers talk, so incidents of theft and violence spread and reduce money coming in to the local economy. This alone isn't enough to completely _stop_ crime in these areas, but criminals have learned that there are LOTS of boats to steal from. They want the easy, low-risk take. So any indication that the boat is keeping a watch, or that there will be any resistance and they just move on ... eventually they'll find a careless boater to steal from with no worries. They know that there's lots on deck they can steal without making enough noise to wake anyone, so they almost never go below decks. They know that cruisers have insurance, so a stolen MFD is likely to create a police report that the police don't have time to follow up on, and an insurance claim. But they know that if they go below decks, and if someone gets hurt, then the local police will have the motivation to track them down, as a story spreading about an assault will cause cruisers to stop spending money at their anchorage. Just a few stolen MFDs a week makes pretty good money on the black market, so they aren't terribly desperate to take any risks.

It _is_ unintuitive. At least it was to me. But the facts support the conclusion that carrying a guy while cruising just isn't worth it.

But, of course, you've brought one of the more controversial topics to this forum, so you're going to get heated answers. The fact that you're surprised by that is somewhat funny to me. You might as well start a pro-life vs. pro-choice debate -- it would be equally ponderous to me if you were surprised by the heated responses you got.


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## midwesterner

BillMoran said:


> Man ... a lot of people getting snippy about the question.
> 
> But, of course, you've brought one of the more controversial topics to this forum, so you're going to get heated answers. The fact that you're surprised by that is somewhat funny to me. You might as well start a pro-life vs. pro-choice debate -- it would be equally ponderous to me if you were surprised by the heated responses you got.


That's true, much of the rest of the world does not share our American frontier penchant for everybody being able to carry a loaded firearm around in our glove compartment or into Starbucks.


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## zeehag

i believe you will find travelling with weaponry a hassle--even worse than the dog. 
i travel mexico sola with only a cat for protection--hahahahaha donot need to lock doors and donot need to worry about my personal safety.
caribbean was same. 
if you are not comfortable in your own skin, stay home until you are so., is important. 
if you cannot trust folks enough to mix with em, stay home.
if you feel the |NEED to carry a weapon, stay home. 
once you get out into the cruising lifstyle, if that is actually what you willbe doing, you will learn much much more than you could imagine. 
if you donot make it out here, it will not matter. there is much to learn that is not learnable without wandering out into reality.


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## jjarman123

midwesterner said:


> Traveling with a dog, outside of the US can be a hassle. The Bahamas and British Virgin Islands, and other countries, require a pet import permit which includes an APHIS health certificate and a rabies titer blood test (It requires blood to be drawn and sent to one of the certified testing centers). Even the US Virgin Islands requires a certified health certificate and a 6 month current rabies vaccination. My state only requires a rabies vaccination every two years, so the USVI has more restrictive requirements.
> 
> So, if you want to travel with a gun or a dog, it is easier to confine your cruising to the continental United States.


I will be sailing with at least one dog. Can't imagine my life without one. But I can meet the requirements. My dogs are always up to date on shots and living in the south we do heartworm prevention year round already anyway.

Its funny what to some may seem a hassle but to others is no big deal. But thanks for the heads up. It is something I will be researching.


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## jjarman123

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Just go cruising in the Caribbean like everyone else.
> 
> What makes you need to look like Rambo when no one else does or needs to?
> 
> Reality is the price of rum, not anything else.
> 
> Mark


Ha. Its not like I am going to be sitting in the cockpit with a machine gun. If it is a big deal and a huge hassle or just downright illegal I won't have a gun. If I am allowed most likely it would be kept in a drawer or box somewhere below deck.


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## jjarman123

BillMoran said:


> Man ... a lot of people getting snippy about the question.
> 
> The fact is that carrying a firearm on a boat these days is complicated and difficult. Laws change each time you change ports. As a foreigner, if you ever _use_ the weapon you're going to have a lot of trouble with the local authorities.
> 
> But there is a _really_ good reason _not_ to have a gun on board when you cruise. And I've heard this repeated over and over again by many, many experienced cruisers: 99.99% of the people who would board your boat with malicious intent can be scared off with a spotlight. Stories of people being shot because they came out of their cabin brandishing a gun and caused panic in the boarders are frequent. Stories of cruisers keeping watch in the cockpit in sketchy anchorages and the simple act of them shining a spotlight was enough to scare away suspicious persons are numerous. Stories of people spending totally safe, uneventful nights in anchorages are so frequently it would be impossible to count them.
> 
> Stories of anyone protecting themselves with a gun while on a sailboat are non-existent. I've never heard a single one. If you know of any stories of this tactic being useful in the last 20 years, I'd be interested to hear it.
> 
> So, the reason for not carrying a gun is simple statistics: The chances of you needing it are near zero. The chances that attempting to use it will make the situation worse are small, but existent. And the chances that it will actually protect you are so small that there are no recorded incidences of it. Add to that the likelihood that it will prevent you from entering certain harbors, and make entry complicated in many more ... well, it just doesn't seem practical.
> 
> An experienced captain explained his theory on why this is the case: Cruisers bring money to the local economy, so those economies have a vested interest in keeping cruisers coming in; and cruisers talk, so incidents of theft and violence spread and reduce money coming in to the local economy. This alone isn't enough to completely _stop_ crime in these areas, but criminals have learned that there are LOTS of boats to steal from. They want the easy, low-risk take. So any indication that the boat is keeping a watch, or that there will be any resistance and they just move on ... eventually they'll find a careless boater to steal from with no worries. They know that there's lots on deck they can steal without making enough noise to wake anyone, so they almost never go below decks. They know that cruisers have insurance, so a stolen MFD is likely to create a police report that the police don't have time to follow up on, and an insurance claim. But they know that if they go below decks, and if someone gets hurt, then the local police will have the motivation to track them down, as a story spreading about an assault will cause cruisers to stop spending money at their anchorage. Just a few stolen MFDs a week makes pretty good money on the black market, so they aren't terribly desperate to take any risks.
> 
> It _is_ unintuitive. At least it was to me. But the facts support the conclusion that carrying a guy while cruising just isn't worth it.
> 
> But, of course, you've brought one of the more controversial topics to this forum, so you're going to get heated answers. The fact that you're surprised by that is somewhat funny to me. You might as well start a pro-life vs. pro-choice debate -- it would be equally ponderous to me if you were surprised by the heated responses you got.


Some very good points. I came here to ask questions and get advice. I really did not expect to be attacked and called an idiot for wanting to sail alone. I don't think I am the first person to sail alone.

Having never sailed and especially having never sailed in the Caribbean I don't know the environment. I originally thought about buying a camper and doing that full time but now have seen the light and am going with a boat. In that regard I based my question about the gun on what I see in the camping world. I live in the south and yes most of us have at least one gun laying around. Most of us are raised with guns and are safe with guns. But we have guns in our homes for protection because it is needed. I live in the country out from a small town. Most people would think it is the picture of safety. But with the growing drug world we see more and more thefts and home invasions even in the "country".

But I see your points about safety onboard. The spotlight is just the thing I need to know about. I wonder if motion detectors would work. I guess if they are set up right.

But thank you for your advice.


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## jjarman123

midwesterner said:


> That's true, much of the rest of the world does not share our American frontier penchant for everybody being able to carry a loaded firearm around in our glove compartment or into Starbucks.


Made me smile. I wonder if people who have never been to the US or the southeast US think we all walk around with guns falling out of our pockets or purses? I do carry one routinely but it is legal in my state. I work in a not so safe area of town. I live in the country but am usually coming home to an empty house (except for 3 dogs). Now once I am inside God help someone trying to come in. They will either be torn to bits or licked to death. But it is a different culture and we are used to guns.


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## jjarman123

zeehag said:


> i believe you will find travelling with weaponry a hassle--even worse than the dog.
> i travel mexico sola with only a cat for protection--hahahahaha donot need to lock doors and donot need to worry about my personal safety.
> caribbean was same.
> if you are not comfortable in your own skin, stay home until you are so., is important.
> if you cannot trust folks enough to mix with em, stay home.
> if you feel the |NEED to carry a weapon, stay home.
> once you get out into the cruising lifstyle, if that is actually what you willbe doing, you will learn much much more than you could imagine.
> if you donot make it out here, it will not matter. there is much to learn that is not learnable without wandering out into reality.


Again, I am new to this. Never sailed. Never been to the Caribbean so I don't know how people act. I am basing my questions on what I am familiar with. But I thank you and the others for letting me know it really is safe and I won't need to worry about a gun. Plus if it is as big a hassle as everyone says then I won't bother with the gun.


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## midwesterner

jjarman123 said:


> I will be sailing with at least one dog. Can't imagine my life without one. But I can meet the requirements. My dogs are always up to date on shots and living in the south we do heartworm prevention year round already anyway.
> 
> Its funny what to some may seem a hassle but to others is no big deal. But thanks for the heads up. It is something I will be researching.


I don't think you understand. I also am a dog lover and take my dog everywhere and keep current on all shots. A dog just places a few limitations. A certification of up-to-date shots is not enough. You have to have a titer test that verifies that the dog responded to the rabies vaccine. This titer test is not done at your local vet clinic.

There are countries where your dog would be confiscated and placed in a quarantine kennel for 3 to 6 months at your expense. (Some let you visit your dog).

I read a good bit about cruising with my dog and concluded that it would limit my destinations enough that I might consider leaving my dog behind. Many island countries have no rabies, and never have. The US is considered a country with high rabies activity. Some rabies free countries really don't want our pets there. The risk is just too great, so they make it very undesirable for us to bring our pets.

There are people who cruise with their dogs, but it creates some challenges.

One site with good info is:

http://www.pettravel.com/passports_rabies_free_countries.cfm


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## BillMoran

jjarman123 said:


> Some very good points. I came here to ask questions and get advice. I really did not expect to be attacked and called an idiot for wanting to sail alone. I don't think I am the first person to sail alone.
> 
> Having never sailed and especially having never sailed in the Caribbean I don't know the environment. I originally thought about buying a camper and doing that full time but now have seen the light and am going with a boat. In that regard I based my question about the gun on what I see in the camping world. I live in the south and yes most of us have at least one gun laying around. Most of us are raised with guns and are safe with guns. But we have guns in our homes for protection because it is needed. I live in the country out from a small town. Most people would think it is the picture of safety. But with the growing drug world we see more and more thefts and home invasions even in the "country".
> 
> But I see your points about safety onboard. The spotlight is just the thing I need to know about. I wonder if motion detectors would work. I guess if they are set up right.
> 
> But thank you for your advice.


I didn't notice anyone calling you an idiot for wanting to sail alone. Seemed like most people were calling the desire to carry a gun stupid, but I might have missed something.

Sailing alone is a whole other topic. Pretty sure most people would consider sailing alone foolish. I do, and this is coming from a guy who intends to do just that. It's incredibly foolish. It's difficult. It's exhausting. In my case it's either be foolish or do nothing, so I choose to be foolish.

In the end, it's your call. But educate yourself so you know what you're getting in to. Imagine multiple days without more than 45 minutes of sleep at a time. Imagine that when things go sideways there's nobody but you to fix them. Etc.

But even that doesn't really cover it. There are lots of different "types" of cruising you can do. Island hopping in the Caribbean is very different from an ocean crossing. If you're just getting started, don't let a few people getting pissy worry you. Lot's of people run out and do stupid things and get themselves and others killed -- don't be one of those. Do your research. Find some more experienced boats to crew on. Join a club and learn all you can. You'll be fine.


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## zeehag

carryi9ng weaponry into many nations is prison sentence. not a great idea. not all nations are usa. does not make you an idiot, just a curious human for asking before leaving, unlike those finding selves in prison for just that issue. 
dog--hell i bring cats with me. is not a big deal-- is hoops through which to jump is all, and difficult in some locales. preplanning works. 
sailing alone--just donot stand to pee over side without your tether being short enough to prevent your falling overboard. 
make your cockpit comfy for passages and have a great time.


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## hellosailor

jj-
Unless you want to spend a lot of time making lists of places you can't go, forget the firearms and the dog. Or any pets. Guns, especially pistols, are getting banned in more and more places every year, and what you learn now may well change next year. Same thing with animals really. Quarantines can be casual (Yah mon, just keep it on de boat, wink wink) or if you find that you're forced to detour for storm damage...Now it is 90 days in a quarantine kennel at five-star resort prices.
Guns, even flare guns, can be kept in bonded storage onboard, sometimes, along with precisely counted rounds of ammunition. At other times, you need to check them in--and may find they've been mysteriously used and not cleaned when you go to check them out. (As per a published article by a respected author a few years ago.)
There are MANY options that a web search or a visit to some alarm suppliers, including RV suppliers, can turn up for you. Heat sensors (IR), motion sensors (ultrasonic), webcams that optically detect motion and intruders, pressure mats for the floor, capacitive touch sensors that can tell when someone touches your stanchions or lifelines...there are a lot of uncommon but conventional security sensors that will be legal anywhere.

Add a "GDMF Loud Alarm" and strobes, manually triggered, to your mast, and the intruder will probably begone before you can pick up a radio to call for help.

Similarly, some forum members have taken the incredibly sensible approach of using a heavy grating to block off the companionway, instead of leaving it open. For that matter, I suppose a steel or aluminum boat (both can be problems in the tropics) would also be a high-security option.

And there are "weapons" ranging from a spray bottle with fresh ammonia, to an extra fire extinguisher, that are all conventional and legal--but they'll stock an attacker long enough for you to take firmer action. 
And really, any martial arts studio should be able to teach you the basics of self defense. There are a number of lethal blows that require very little skill or confrontation. For that matter, even the NRA hosts regular "Don't Be A Victim" classes in UNarmed self defense, especially for women.

Why look for problems, like regulated guns, when there are so many other options that can do the job for you? Including, of course "Just don't go there." If someplace is on the State Department's warning list? Go elsewhere.


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## midwesterner

jjarman123 said:


> Made me smile. I wonder if people who have never been to the US or the southeast US think we all walk around with guns falling out of our pockets or purses? I do carry one routinely but it is legal in my state. I work in a not so safe area of town. I live in the country but am usually coming home to an empty house (except for 3 dogs). Now once I am inside God help someone trying to come in. They will either be torn to bits or licked to death. But it is a different culture and we are used to guns.


It is legal in our state as well. For a number of years we had, what I thought, was a perfectly reasonable Conceal and Carry law. It required people to apply for their C&C permit and to take a firearms safety class. It was stuff I had to study to get my rifle shooting merit badge in boy scouts, but was oriented toward hand guns. The course also covered the law, how to notify an officer of your concealed weapon during a traffic stop, and standards for when you can discharge your weapon. It was designed to hold C&C holders to some standard of safety like police officers.

Then, for some reason, or state lawmakers thought that this was restrictive and passed an unrestricted C&C law that allows anybody to carry a concealed wepon, no permit or gun safety class required. I really didn't see what was wrong with the old system. I would be very nervous to be a law enforcement officer in my state.

Our community has a biking safety class for kids to learn to ride their bike safely to school. My kids got an auto insurance discount for taking a drivers ed course. At my job we take CPR training and a course to show us how to use the portable difibrilator device. At work we have four hours of training on fire response where the fire department lights a large pan of gas on fire and lets each person practice using an ABC fire extinguisher to put the fire out.

I'm grateful for the firearms safety training that I have had in my life and I don't understand why some people object to such training and view it as some limitation to our rights.

I know some people who carry guns who really don't know what they are doing.


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## hellosailor

Mid-
If folks were required to read the state and federal constitutions, and pass a reading comprehension test, before they were allowed to vote, would they get upset? Same same with firearms laws, even though most US citizens have no idea that both state and federal militia service is largely compulsory, and a condition of citizenship.

These are the same folks who were polled by some Harvard researchers around 1969. They were read a section of the Constitution and asked "What is this from?" and IIRC the leading answer was "Das Capital" (Karl Marx.)

My pistol will never fall out of my pocket, I keep it safely in my sporran.(G)


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## jjarman123

midwesterner said:


> I don't think you understand. I also am a dog lover and take my dog everywhere and keep current on all shots. A dog just places a few limitations. A certification of up-to-date shots is not enough. You have to have a titer test that verifies that the dog responded to the rabies vaccine. This titer test is not done at your local vet clinic.
> 
> There are countries where your dog would be confiscated and placed in a quarantine kennel for 3 to 6 months at your expense. (Some let you visit your dog).
> 
> I read a good bit about cruising with my dog and concluded that it would limit my destinations enough that I might consider leaving my dog behind. Many island countries have no rabies, and never have. The US is considered a country with high rabies activity. Some rabies free countries really don't want our pets there. The risk is just too great, so they make it very undesirable for us to bring our pets.
> 
> There are people who cruise with their dogs, but it creates some challenges.
> 
> One site with good info is:
> 
> Rabies Free Countries - Pet Travel


Thanks for the advice. Yes, I know about the titer test and it is only done in 2 places in the US so it takes a few weeks to get back. I've researched the first few places I may go and so far no big problems meeting a dog requirement. The only additional things I need beyond what I already do is the titer and the form signed by a USDA vet. Those are not big deals to me and well worth it.

I plan to research any country I go to prior to going and making sure I am all good with their laws. If it is something I can't get done I won't go there.


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## snokid

Funny I have a CC but hardly ever carry.... I don't lock my cars, house etc.... I live in the city...right now my keys are in my car out in the driveway...

Having a gun onboard is the last thing I would want/need...

so you are sleeping and someone breaks in, I guess it's happened, so grab your glock 17 and shoot him all that noise now the boat that has his friends come onboard with ak47's well at least you got 1 of them before you are a lead dumpster...

same thing this time you are unarmed hey what are you doing here? give me what you got old man. go ahead and take my rum just leave me a little to drink to calm me down after you leave. OK man sounds fair have a good night 

lol somewhat silly but in reality not really....

if you are in the v-berth you are pretty much a sitting duck, nowhere to go....

I drove truck for a lot of years, people texting killed so many people way more than the drunks by the way. Driving at night that high up I would say 80-90% of the drivers are playing with their phones.... Roads are way more likely to get you killed than some bandit!!!!

Bob


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## gamayun

I was thinking this thread might be about keeping on the boat while you singlehand, how to manage night/day watches alone, being able to do things using 3:1 purchase even if you don't have upper body strength. I seriously wasn't expecting it to be about needing to shoot it out with someone. I haven't read the posts, but have spent quite a bit of time on many of the Caribbean Islands, and I can tell ya, you're much safer there than many places in the US.

Do bad things happen to good people; yeah, no doubt, but overall, your fear is mostly misplaced. I live in Oakland, on a boat with homeless in abundance, a pot dispensary across the street, and lots of crime, but it was at my previous marina in San Francisco where I had to step around a dead body to get to my gate, had multiple broken windows in my car, and had to duck whenSF PD tried to shoot someone in pursuit who had stolen their police van. I think once you get out there you'll see the world is not such a scary place, even as a single woman. Just talk to any young European woman. They often spend their gap years traipsing all over the world by themselves. I think much of our fear is a cultural dogma that nearly paralyzes most Americans from travel except for "all inclusive" resorts. Shame, really...

[Post Script - I see you're from the South. I was raised there, too (and I'm a single female), but my mom was from France and dad was from Texas so I can relate to the fear, but not to the reality. I suggest you get out there a bit before you worry too much about it at this stage.]


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## SanderO

I have never even thought a moment about personal safety on my boat now going on 32 years... in NE, Caribean and even Spain.... The only theft I had was at the boat yard in Greenport during winter storage and someone stole my reefing lines!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dink was stolen in RI... that's it.

I see no need to lock the boat.... it's on a mooring... or anchor.

Can't speak for marinas... don't stay there and would never...

I do lock the dink at the town dock..

Safety is more about capability to deal with the loads, the navigation, weather and the other idiots boaters out there... just as on the road. Wifey is from the Bronx and very suspect and paranoid.


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## BillMoran

It did occur to me after this thread dragged on a bit, that my greatest safety concerns are the weather and falling asleep during watch at night. While there are certainly humans that pose threat, none of them scare me as much as the possibility that I'll accidentally get myself into a nasty storm that's more than I can handle.


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## aeventyr60

Since your departure is so far off..What are you going to do in the meantime to develop the skills necessary to cruise?

Think you should go out a buy a small caltalina, 22 with a pop top. Plenty of places for you to gunkhole around in. Bring your dogs, guns and lots of beer. Plenty of spots for you to get far away. Maybe some good duck hunting and bass fishing where nobody else gets to go....

Think you could get a nice little boat for the cost of a good Sig Sauer P226..


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## outbound

I am a US citizen. I hunt and shoot at the range when home. I spend 8 months a year cruising. The guns stay home in a safe or with shooting friends. 
There are innumerable spaces on a sailboat to hide valuables. There is nothing on my decks. My dinghy is not marked T/T "anything " so no one can look at a dinghy dock and know I'm off the boat.
Pragmatic fears cruising alone ( have done this for months on end when wife is back in the States).
Getting hurt or sick. Who takes care of the boat?. If acute illness or injury how do you get help?
Having dinghy stolen while you're on the boat. How do you get back to land to deal with it?
Need repair or to go up the mast requiring two people. Who do you use?
Solutions-
Get the best locking system for your dinghy you can. It's this theft that's the major concern. Raise your dinghy before sleep.
Join a cruising group like OCC or Salty Dawgs. You'll have a friend in every harbor.
Get active on the ssb and vhf cruising nets. Make friends and help others. It's fun and increases your security if things go wrong.
Use common sense. I like getting truly off the grid and on anchor. I'll find folks to buddy boat with so I can do this safely by myself. I pay attention to noonsite and what other cruisers tell me. There are so many beautiful places there is no reason to expose yourself to high crime places or islands.
Lastly fall in love. It improves your life😁


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## krisscross

jjarman123 said:


> My question is though is there any kind of security system for sailboats to let you know if someone came onboard while you were asleep. I got to thinking if nothing else I could rig up a motion detector in the companionway which would be pretty simple.


Since you plan to keep a dog on board, that would work very well as an intruder alert. I would trust it more than any kind of electronic motion detector on a constantly moving boat.
I sense that you like to have a weapon handy so that you can even out the odds between you and a potential attacker. I can definitely relate to that. I have raised 2 daughters and taught them how to defend themselves using guns and other weapons. As others have mentioned, having firearms outside US is a major hassle. But there are other things that can be used as a weapon, like proper flare guns, spear fishing gear, knives, bows, and so on. You do not need to feel defenseless when you are on a boat. 
And yet, in the grand scheme of things, the most dangerous things you will face as a solo sailor will not come from other folks being up to no good. Bad weather, navigation hazards, lack of sleep, gear malfunctions, errors in judgement, falling overboard - are far more likely to kill you than other people. So go sailing and start developing survival skills as soon as possible, because it takes time to get comfortable and be able to handle what the reality throws at you. Don't get discouraged, it's a great plan.


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## superslomo

You could travel with your dog within the US, but I'd suggest leaving the gun off the boat if you are going to make port in other states. Your license isn't going to be accepted everywhere, at which point even in this country it's a potential weapons charge.

In other countries, the rules are far more strict, more complicated, and the need people here perceive for being armed is just completely alien. In Germany, I can't even carry my Benchmade, because they prohibit a knife which can be opened with only one hand.


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## redfishnc

Well I guess I'll throw out another slightly varied view. Things have changed. Opioids have changed the landscape. I have owned guns forever and I am not a young man. I have always had guns locked in safe in garage. People ask me what gun do I have in the house I answer a nightstick and a big maglight by the door. It use to be if someone was home you were probably in good shape. Burglars usually avoid occupied homes. They may steal from your car or garage but they wouldn't come into an occupied house. Those rules are changing rapidly. Lives are no longer valuable. It is sad. This fall when I cruise the US waterway there will be a dog and there may be a shotgun on my boat (definitely not viewed the same as a handgun). I want to anchor out. I want to feel safe. I haven't brought it in the house and haven't decided about the boat. We are no longer living in the world we grew up in. The decision is not an easy one. Just sayin', things have changed. Everyone has to decide for themselves...


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## Arcb

Jjarman, I think it's been well covered that most countries don't appreciate foreigners wandering around their streets armed with hand guns, so I'm not going to go into that.

However, if you are still concerned with security, there is an international guideline created by the International Maritime Organisation. The name of the document is the International Ship and Port Security Code. The ISPS code is focused entirely on commercial vessels, however, many of the concepts contained in the code can be adapted to a yacht. Might be worth some research if the topic is of interest to you.

Some of the concepts that are encouraged include, communications equipment to call for help, lighting and signage as a deterrent, conducting drills and maintaining situational awareness, alarm systems, speed etc. 

In terms of an alarm system, I think you'd find a door and window sensor alarm will work better on a boat than a motion sensor. Those are the style where there are two contacts that are normally closed and an alarm is triggered when a door is opened and the circuit is broken. One set of contacts on each hatch would not be a difficult install. If you like gadgets, you could connect bilge and sewage level sensor and smoke detector alarms to the same system.

In terms of weapons, I've travelled a decent amount in out of the way developing nations, and my greatest concern has always been stray/wild dogs. For that reason, I will sometimes carry a stick or a trekking pole and a few stones in my pocket if I think I might be in an area where dogs could be an issue.


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## superslomo

I'd be a bit concerned about firing guns in a crowded anchorage or marina... you might find that what you're defending yourself against eventually isn't an intruder, but is a negligent homicide charge when you kill the person sleeping on deck on the boat 50 yards away on a hot night. Whether the gun is legal or not, it's fair to consider the unintended consequences of self-defense, which won't protect you from injuring or killing someone you DIDN'T mean to shoot.


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## Minnesail

redfishnc said:


> Well I guess I'll throw out another slightly varied view. Things have changed. Opioids have changed the landscape...





redfishnc said:


> ...We are no longer living in the world we grew up in. The decision is not an easy one. Just sayin', things have changed.


It is not the world we grew up in, it is a much safer world. At least the US is.



















Murder and violent crime rates peaked in 1992 and are now about half of what they were then.

In the last two years there has been a small uptick (not shown in the graphs) but the rates are still historically very low; even with the uptick they're lower than 2010.

Politicians and pundits are fond of cherry-picking data by taking one area or city (Chicago, for instance) and then claiming that the whole nation in a crime wave. They get loud cheers and high ratings, but they are wrong. We are not in a crime wave.

(This is not to say there are not localized areas with very high crime, or that opioids are not a problem. Don't do drugs, always exercise caution, etc.)


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## midwesterner

I was going to say, every older generation feels that crime is worse than in their "good old days". 

I know that, in my town, our home burglary and shooting rate are greater than it was 50 years ago,.........but the population has doubled in the past 50 years. 

I took to the highway in 1972 hitchhiking, in search of the "real America". My dad begged me not to do it. He noted that he hitchhiked some, during the war years of the 1940's, but he said that times had changed and that it was not safe like it was in his day. He pointed out that there were things in the 70's that were game changers. There were drugged out people high on PCP, Qualudes, heroin, LSD and, the demon weed, Marijuana. Over the next ten years I hitchhiked over 55,000 miles. I hitched from St. Louis to Baltimore and back twice. I hitched from St. Louis to Memphis several times and from St. Louis to Rockford Illinois. I hitched from St. Louis to Sacramento and from Sacramento to Redding and then down to Barstow. I never had any bad experience and I was often invited to stay with people I met. I never carried a weapon. 

My father had predicted that I wouldn't be able to get far because, since the times had become so dangerous, nobody would be willing to pick up hitchhikers, like they did in his day. He said, "Nobody is going to want to pick you up in this day and age. It's just too risky. There is no way I would ever pick up a hitchhiker."

After my first trip to Baltimore, I called my parents to tell them that I had made it safely with only five rides. On the way back, I met a young couple from Sweden who were travelling across the US for their first time here. I took them home and put them up at my parent's house. After that, my dad started picking up hitchhikers who reminded him of me because he hated the idea of his son being left on the road without a ride. He often told me of the interesting young people he met.

But then, that was in the good old days. ;-)


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## aeventyr60

The greatest danger I face as a cruiser is getting hit by a texting driver while I ride my bike around Penang...


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## Movingrightalong...

midwesterner said:


> I'm grateful for the firearms safety training that I have had in my life and I don't understand why some people object to such training and view it as some limitation to our rights.


What are your thoughts in having to take a speech safety course before you are allowed to post on Sailnet or a voting safety course before you can go to the ballot box?

As for the OP, I think you will find that keeping a secured firearm on a US flagged vessel vs carrying it in a foreign country are two different matters. Whether or not you need to one depends. I surely wouldn't cruise anywhere near Africa or Venezuela without some firepower on board.


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## midwesterner

Movingrightalong... said:


> What are your thoughts in having to take a speech safety course before you are allowed to post on Sailnet or a voting safety course before you can go to the ballot box?
> 
> As for the OP, I think you will find that keeping a secured firearm on a US flagged vessel vs carrying it in a foreign country are two different matters. Whether or not you need to one depends. I surely wouldn't cruise anywhere near Africa or Venezuela without some firepower on board.


I don't have any objection to drivers education or making people take a drivers test to get a license. Automobiles are dangerous.

I was looking at guns in a pawn shop the other day. There were some young guys in there looking at bargain priced handguns who seemed like clueless idiots. It scared me to think they can carry a gun. And, in our state, they can carry it conceled. The shoppers included a couple of guys who had brought their girlfriends, who were getting absolutely giddy about the thought of buying their first gun. They couldn't decide between the pink one or the blue one.

There are some people who should not drive, and some who should not be allowed to carry a gun around in public. I have some in my family.

One of my nitwit nephews announced the other day that he wants to buy a gun. He has seen some cool ones that he can buy with his next paycheck at the pawn shop for under $250. He has never shown any interest before and his parents know nothing. He held his first pistol in his hand, ever, a week ago, at the pawn shop. I asked him why he wants to buy a gun and he said, "cause I'm twenty-one now, and I can". I asked what he needs it for and he said that he thought that it would be cool to have one and show it off to his friends. I asked him if he intends to keep it loaded and he said, "I dunno, probably".

I offered to take him to the pistol range with my gun and teach him basic safety skills, or I told him where he could take a class, if he prefers to learn from a professional. He said he didn't want to "bother with that kind of stuff" he just wants a gun to play with. I told him that, if he buys a gun without taking some safety training, he will not be allowed to bring it in my home or on my property.

We had a perfectly good Conceal and Carry law in our state that required a brief safety course that included some education about when you can legally use your gun. Our new governor signed a law allowing ANYBODY to carry a conceled weapon. We now have people brandishing guns in road rage encounters. Back in July we had a young punk pull out a pistol in a local nightclub and shoot a warning shot into the ceiling when some other bar patrons laughed at him when he got turned down by a girl. The only thing that was illegal about his actions was discharging a weapon in town, without just cause. But then he was unaware of the law. He had just heard, at the pawn shop, that it was perfectly legal for him to carry it conceled, for his protection. He said that he felt threatened when people laughed at him.

Movingrightalong, if you are a sensible, capable and responsible gun owner, these people who aren't should concern you. They give the rest of us a bad name, and they are dangerous.

I think that gun safety is a little different than free speech.


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## mbianka

Once helped a friend drive to college. I still have fond memories of me hitchhiking back from St. Louis MO back to Long Island in 1976.


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## midwesterner

Movingrightalong... said:


> What are your thoughts in having to take a speech safety course before you are allowed to post on Sailnet or a voting safety course before you can go to the ballot box?
> 
> As for the OP, I think you will find that keeping a secured firearm on a US flagged vessel vs carrying it in a foreign country are two different matters. Whether or not you need to one depends. I surely wouldn't cruise anywhere near Africa or Venezuela without some firepower on board.


I ride motorcycles and I feel the same way about those. I got my first bike when I was 16 and I knew nothing. I learned motorcycle defensive driving by trial and error over years. Then, when I was older, and started touring, I read motorcycle magazines to learn safety and defensive driving strategies. I was dangerous until I was about twenty and actually learned to ride safely. I had a few close calls, due to errors by other drivers, and it is by shear luck that I survived. I know some kids from youth who did not. One nineteen year old friend lost his right leg to a car driver who ran a red light. I now believe my parents were naive fiools to have let me have a bike at 16, with no more training than I had.

Both of my kids talked about getting motorcycles or scooters when they were teens. I forbade it because neither of them are very attentive drivers. They both balked at allowing me to teach them defensive driving strategies. They thought it was hypocritical of me to deny them one, when I own two. I offered to teach them to ride, saying that my instruction program would start in the car, to review defensive driving strategies.

They both balked at that. They think that they can just get on a bike and ride, and it will be safe. When my son turned 18 he announced that he may buy a motorcycle and that I couldn't stop him then. He still lived with us and I told him he wouldn't be able to ever park it at home because, if he ever brought it on our property, I would disable it until he agreed to learn to ride it safely.


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## outbound

Different places are different.
Have cousin lives in Montana. Real risk of cougars eating your child at the bus stop. Have no issue with moms having a 1911 in the glove compartment.
Was brought up in Manhattan. Don't want halfwits having conceal/carry there. No issue with Sullivan law.
Libertarian in basic view. Do what you want but don't place me at risk without my prior consent. 
BTW a fire extinguisher in the face is a decent deterrent and legal on a boat everywhere.


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## hellosailor

Aside from the fast $25 (more in distant places I'll bet) that it would cost to replace the used extinguisher, which is cheaper than recharging it, have you ever fired one off in a confined space? 

That British yachting magazine that sometimes posts videos while they are rolling over a hull or cutting holes in it or doing hands-on mayhem, also posted one of an extinguisher being used below deck.

It creates a maelstrom of yellow powder that gets in YOUR eyes, hair, teeth, lungs, just as much as the other guy. And that yellow powder also corrodes the hell out of electrical circuits and appliances, like your stove. And is a bear to clean up.

If you've got no other choices, sure. But you do not want to "plan" for firing off a powder extinguisher below deck. Or upwind at all.

There are better and cheaper things you can put in a spray bottle or buy in a pressurized can. Heck, even a can of spray paint will do. "Just look for the guy with the purple face. Although a plain $2 can of cheap hair spray is even easier to clean up. And a can of wasp spray can reach out over 20 feet from you.


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## outbound

Thanks for the above ideas. My thinking was every one has or should have a fire extinguisher in every sleeping compartment, galley and engine room. One is is always close to hand. Between getting hurt and cleaning up a mess I would take cleaning up a mess. Admittedly this is a last resort so agree with you but as the propellant comes out its at a freezing temperature so the one who's face it's aimed at will be quite disabled . My personal plan is different but not shared for the trolls nor do I want to share in order to preserve the novelty. In terms of spray cans bear repellent seems to get good reviews. Surprisingly wasp spray doesn't.


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## hellosailor

" Between getting hurt and cleaning up a mess I would take cleaning up a mess. Admittedly this is a last resort so agree with you but as the propellant comes out its at a freezing temperature"
Next time I use one (we drill with them often) I'll have to stick a hand in there. I've never noticed anything "freezing" about them, they are NOT CO2 extinguishers. Even with the larger dry powder extinguishers, I've never noticed any cold or received any warning about that. 
Instead...we are cautioned to wear eye and mouth (filter) protection because that damned yellow powder is going to get in everything and everyone, and it is not good stuff. Respiratory and eye irritant. If you think cleaning it up is easy...you haven't had to do so yet. You will find it penetrates places where you are sure it couldn't get, and it just keeps coming back after you've cleaned it "all" out.
You really need to USE one, to appreciate the stuff. Personally I prefer CO2 or water, but even a "freezing" CO2 spray is easily batted away with an arm. With yellow powder, your attacker will remain on an equal par with you: Both blind in the dust fog. And the attack continues.

"not shared for the trolls" Yes. I hate filling out paperwork. When I was racing we had a simple motto on the boat: "If you leave no survivors, you don't waste any time with the protest committee."

I wonder if that works outside the racing circuit too?


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## Siamese

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Motion detectors at every hardware store about $20.
> 
> Just because many local people in the Caribbean are black it doesn't mean you need a gun.
> 
> You need a gun more in your own country than the Caribbean.
> 
> Yes, you can sail by yourself unless you are a compete idiot.
> 
> 12 years is self imposed. Get off your fat bum and save more money now and retire in 5 years. I retired at 48 and it was the best decision I ever made.


Whoa...back up the truck. The OP didn't say anything about black people. Are you thinking that Caribbean black people are more prone to violence than other races residing there?


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## sailforlife

There is going to be a sailboat fire sale after this hurricane. Good time to buy!!:captain:


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