# Hunter declares Chpt 11 BK



## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Luhrs Marine Group files for bankruptcy protection | MilitaryFeed.com

another sad day for the industry


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

What they need is a "bailout!!"


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

From the article it sounds like the powerboat brands are the ones in trouble and that the Hunter brand is actually doing pretty good. Hopefully it works out that they continue on.


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## Tbrad (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah tell them to ask Obama to give 'em some money from his stash!


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Warranties are jeopardized by any bankruptcy filing. Hunter owners and buyers beware! If the assets are sold the warranties usually become worthless in a Chapter 11. Hunter owners should consult counsel.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

That sucks. 

I guess it is the survival of the fittest. Either you adapt and evolve, or perish. Like the seas, the new world has no mercy. Our country can't manufacture any more. It is a dangerous time we are in.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Another one down. It seems like the fastest way to go broke is to build boats. A lot of good boat builders have gone bust, and we are still sailing their legacies.


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Copy of the actual filing by the parent company of Luhrs, Morgan Industries.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

With the dissemination on the middle class over the last 30 years, there will be no one to buy products of a by-gone era. As one company after another denigrates because we can no longer afford the luxury of pastimes and barely keep the family feed and/or a roof over our heads because politicians and wall street greed, corruption and mismanagement by the CEO's/board of directors, the standard of living as we know it is fading into the sunset. 
The boating market has been soft with prices falling on used boats like falling stars from the heavens. Power boaters no longer able to afford the expense of afternoon on the bodies of water with family and friends. We can only dream now by watching "Reality TV" or better yet dream scape during our solitude inside oneself. 
The Hunter bankruptcy and others to follow is not like the the 80's during the "Luxury Tax". People back than still had good jobs and money was available. Today's times money is not there, very tight and personal bankruptcy are at a high time for all but most important, job and especially good paying jobs are being dismantle one by one to Walmart standards. 
In my marina at least 2 boats are being repossessed each week. What used to be a 5 year wait list, now a slip can be had any day. For us sailors there are desperate attempts to get the young interested in the sport. Look around and one can see the futurity of it all. Attendance is down everywhere one looks. Yacht clubs doing things to attract new members. 
After Hunter, I know that Caliber and Valiant have closed their doors, heard that IP, Pacific Seacraft are barely keeping the doors open. American manufacturing in serious trouble. 
I hope the future I paint is wrong Dead wrong. One can only hope the sun will once again rise in this great sport.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

CapnBilll said:


> Another one down. It seems like the fastest way to go broke is to build boats. A lot of good boat builders have gone bust, and we are still sailing their legacies.


If they are good boat builders, why people don't buy their boats.

I am just sayin'


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

The middle class has been disseminated? Where to?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

rockDAWG said:


> If they are good boat builders, why people don't buy their boats.
> 
> I am just sayin'


The best builders aren't always the best businessmen.

Unfortunately the reverse is also true.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

rbrasi said:


> The middle class has been disseminated? Where to?


I think she meant decimated


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

It seems their persistant eye toward value with the veneered bulkheads, cored hulls, etc turned out to be a false economy. It's a bummer because even though there was a focus on cheaper/more efficient building, it still seemed they were beginning to gain some momentum in recovering from the quality issues of the past decades.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

rockDAWG said:


> That sucks.
> 
> I guess it is the survival of the fittest. Either you adapt and evolve, or perish. Like the seas, the new world has no mercy. Our country can't manufacture any more. It is a dangerous time we are in.


Really? I work at a manufacturing company! Yep we export to China... we CAN compete.. and I have to tell you the company I work for has full paid medical, profit sharing, and 401k.

The problem, frankly is the "old way of doing business" doesn't work anymore. Our company is 30 years old... we've just doubled the size of our company (again) during a recession (because it's cheaper to do so then).

Opinion: What needs to happen is government needs to get out of business. You ought to see the hoops we had to jump through for our "new buildings." Between, EPA, IRS, Government action committees, we had more politicals walking around than the average primary voting area in the inner city of a blue state! Now we're under the magnifying glass of all these agencies because we should not be making money! No problems in this country. Big business is evil you know.

Am betting building BOATS is considered second kin to making lithium batteries as far as the EPA thinks. Long live Hunter (and no I don't own one, but darnit, I hope they live forever, against all odds).


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

creedence623 said:


> It seems their persistant eye toward value with the veneered bulkheads, cored hulls, etc turned out to be a false economy. It's a bummer because even though there was a focus on cheaper/more efficient building, it still seemed they were beginning to gain some momentum in recovering from the quality issues of the past decades.


The sailboat group is holding its own. It's the power boat groups that have pulled the company under. Fuel costs have got to be killing that side of the industry.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

JimMcGee said:


> The sailboat group is holding its own. It's the power boat groups that have pulled the company under. Fuel costs have got to be killing that side of the industry.


Oh yeah....when you pull that big stinkpot up to the marina pump and it's $750+ to fill her up......


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

JoeDiver said:


> Oh yeah....when you pull that big stinkpot up to the marina pump and it's $750+ to fill her up......


Power boat guys *love it* when you tell them how you spent less on fuel for the season than they did warming up at the dock. 

Seriously I hope we turn the corner on this soon...


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

JimMcGee said:


> The sailboat group is holding its own. It's the power boat groups that have pulled the company under.


Oh, that's a completely different animal. I have no issue with that at all!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Just to clarify for Mel, you don't sell 6 figure new boats to the middle class. Never did. 

Upper middle at the least, even the mass affluent. Ironically, these folks are still working and have wealth. They just won't spend it on boats, with all the constant fear.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> What they need is a "bailout!!"


Luhrs boats ALWAYS needed a bailout!:laugher


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

Who is John Galt?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

WouldaShoulda said:


> What they need is a "bailout!!"


If the potential consequences were millions of unemployed and entire cities effectively being shut down, like in the automakers situation, I'd agree.

Since that's not the case, I'll just chalk your comment up to knee jerk political ideology.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

weinie said:


> Who is John Galt?


One of the biggest heroes of extreme right wingers - think Ayn Rand.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

jsaronson said:


> Warranties are jeopardized by any bankruptcy filing. Hunter owners and buyers beware! If the assets are sold the warranties usually become worthless in a Chapter 11. Hunter owners should consult counsel.


Like all guarantees, they are only as good as the guarantor.


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

“Our dealers, our dedicated employees, our products make up the Hunter brand and this action will allow us to continue.”

Sincerely hope they are right. I heard this 3 times before, C&C in '86 & '90, Hinterhoeller in '90 and they are both gone, along with so many others. Lot's of causes - change in personal priorities, virtual excitement like 'reality TV', change in spending priorities (count the cars in drive-thrus at meal time), fear of/lack of understanding of excitement, economy, continuing middle class erosion, rising material costs (oil?). BTW - glass boats don't rot like wood/rust like steel.

Hope they are right and avoid putting too many more quality craftsmen/women out of work.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> If they are good boat builders, why people don't buy their boats.
> 
> I am just sayin'


They don't buy them because they don't have reliable, well paid employment.

Back in the 80's when the corporations started the race to the bottom by cutting staff, compensation and benefits, I said it would result in them killing the golden goose because no-one would be able to afford their products.

Looks like I was right.

Of course the short sighted fools and criminals responsible for it are just fine, thank you, because they got their enormous share compensation and got out. They can afford fleets of mega yachts while the carnage they created only affects the rest of us peons.

Either that or it was Obama's fault.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

rbrasi said:


> The middle class has been disseminated? Where to?


Now don't denigrate her.  The vocabulary might be a bit lacking but she has the situation accurately scoped out.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

JimMcGee said:


> The sailboat group is holding its own. It's the power boat groups that have pulled the company under. Fuel costs have got to be killing that side of the industry.


Every cloud DOES have a silver lining I guess!


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

SloopJonB said:


> Every cloud DOES have a silver lining I guess!


It's a pretty dark cloud though.

A lot of good folks lost their jobs with Luhrs.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

JoeDiver said:


> Oh yeah....when you pull that big stinkpot up to the marina pump and it's $750+ to fill her up......


That would be a LITTLE stinkpot. The big ones, say 40' and up take more like $2K and up. The guy with the local gas dock has numerous customers who spend a grand a weekend on fuel, just with him.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

JimMcGee said:


> It's a pretty dark cloud though.
> 
> A lot of good folks lost their jobs with Luhrs.


I was speaking facetiously - I hate it when an old name goes under in any field. Watching the big name builders go down 20 years ago was hugely depressing. Thankfully we still have their boats with us and will for a long, long time, which fact is probably a big part of the current problem. If cars lasted like old glass boats, how many auto manufacturers would go under?

This situation resembles GM & Chrysler a bit - Hunter has to shed their counterparts to Oldsmobile, Saturn, Plymouth etc. to regain profitability.

I'm not a big fan of the boats Hunter builds but I admire their thoughtful design details immensely as well as their ability to give maximum value for their intended purpose.


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## steveg353 (Jun 17, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> If the potential consequences were millions of unemployed and entire cities effectively being shut down, like in the automakers situation, I'd agree.
> 
> Since that's not the case, I'll just chalk your comment up to knee jerk political ideology.


I thought the "bailout" statement was a pun.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Melrna said:


> With the dissemination on the middle class over the last 30 years, there will be no one to buy products of a by-gone era. As one company after another denigrates because we can no longer afford the luxury of pastimes and barely keep the family feed and/or a roof over our heads because politicians and wall street greed, corruption and mismanagement by the CEO's/board of directors, the standard of living as we know it is fading into the sunset.
> The boating market has been soft with prices falling on used boats like falling stars from the heavens. Power boaters no longer able to afford the expense of afternoon on the bodies of water with family and friends. We can only dream now by watching "Reality TV" or better yet dream scape during our solitude inside oneself.
> The Hunter bankruptcy and others to follow is not like the the 80's during the "Luxury Tax". People back than still had good jobs and money was available. Today's times money is not there, very tight and personal bankruptcy are at a high time for all but most important, job and especially good paying jobs are being dismantle one by one to Walmart standards.
> In my marina at least 2 boats are being repossessed each week. What used to be a 5 year wait list, now a slip can be had any day. For us sailors there are desperate attempts to get the young interested in the sport. Look around and one can see the futurity of it all. Attendance is down everywhere one looks. Yacht clubs doing things to attract new members.
> ...


I think you're spot on.

People my age are going crazy trying to find ways to explore and get out, but can't see any. I've met a few people making the move to sailboats, others to land vehicles etc. It requires a huge amount of sacrifice on the kind of income most people my age have today, not to mention that it is looked down on, borderline or considered outright illegal in many places.

Living aboard at a decent rate makes this possible to get into at my age, 5 and 10 year wait lists mean that most won't bother, those that 
do will often have kids or new paths by then. 
On top of that it's ignorance, I didn't know how cheaply I could get a boat. In corollary I didn't know how much it would cost me to own one.

I'm doing the liveaboard thing now, but that's only possible because I don't have to (yet) pay my student loans back, and I'll have my boat paid off when I graduate. After that I'll be paying the loans back for the next 25 years or so, so there goes the income for a boat. With my current job(very well paying with full time hours, best I've had in about 5 years).
I would have just enough for rent of a single room in a cruddy basement suite, food, cellphone/internet, and my student loan payments.

Slip rates here at the only slip with space are insane. 20$/ft+taxes+security deposit of 218$+insurance+regular surveys and rigging checks+haulout for survey etc. 
Electric only, sneak-a-board only.
Other than that I could go 3 hours up a river, but that is impractical too, with a two hour commute every day, then I'd need a vehicle etc, and it would mean that I could only sail when I had 4 or more days off in a row. Not likely in the next couple years...

What it boils down to is two people in their mid twenties together can afford to live on a 43 year old Alberg 30' at slightly higher cost than a much larger bedroom, and that's just the moorage! Nevermind insurance, operational costs, repairs, payments on the boat itself. Hell the survey+haulout to get the insurance to get a chance at a slip cost me more than a months rent (720+152+tax)
The only reason I can afford it is by incredible good fortune I landed a decent job with a take home pay of close to 15$/hr, my dad co-signed the loan, and I am going right back to living hand to mouth as I've been accustomed to over the last few years.

I could comfortably afford to live at anchor but they've pretty much taken that away too, unless I want to anchor completely exposed in an unsafe anchorage.
I've gone begging at just about every marina around, I'm clean, I take care of my space and my boat, I've got great work, and housing references etc.
I'm basically paying 3x as much as I was on rent, for the luxury of living in a lot less space, with no amenities, and having to sneak into my house.
Fortunately I like that sort of thing, and the sanity I regain from at least having the illusion I can leave when I like is worth it.

If they wanted to get another generation into sailing, they could easily make it happen, but they won't until it's too late.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

steveg353 said:


> I thought the "bailout" statement was a pun.


I missed it then - I guess I'm just an angry old fart.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SHNOOL said:


> Really? I work at a manufacturing company! Yep we export to China... we CAN compete.. and I have to tell you the company I work for has full paid medical, profit sharing, and 401k.
> 
> The problem, frankly is the "old way of doing business" doesn't work anymore. Our company is 30 years old... we've just doubled the size of our company (again) during a recession (because it's cheaper to do so then).
> 
> ...


Good for you.
I think you should share with us how your company doing so well under our current government. Let' the wealth.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jgbrown said:


> I think you're spot on.
> 
> If they wanted to get another generation into sailing, they could easily make it happen, but they won't until it's too late.


The problems we have here in Vancouver are almost all caused by the municipal level of government - too many hoops for any new marinas, no anchoring in False Creek, no liveaboards etc. etc. Add in Provincial and Federal environmental hoops and you have the current situation.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh great, Hunter is going to enter the "classic" defunct manufacturers field now. And I wasted money on this Pearson...

Seriously though, this might not be the end, just reorganization.

"Named after the U.S. bankruptcy code 11, Chapter 11 is a form of bankruptcy that involves a reorganization of a debtor's business affairs and assets. It is generally filed by corporations which require time to restructure their debts."

Warranties should be honored if the car industry is a model: Of Car Warranties and Chapter 11 - NYTimes.com


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Sad for sure. I hope Hunter is able to make a go of it after reorg. A free market system thrives when competition drives each other. This leaves only one mass production company left here in the good ole USA; Catalina (great boats, no dig on Cat). That just leaves fewer choices for us. In Europe there is a wide spectrum of boats representing the needs of the sailers who buy them. 

Maybe this will open a space in the market for one of the smaller vendors to step up. I have been in sales myself and if you see the market as a shrinking pie, then you will have nothing to eat. If you go looking for new customers, and sell them on why your product will change their life, the sky is the limit. I have seen many create a market by being aggressive, listening to customers and taking a new approach to a business that was seen as dead by the traditional voices. Back in the nineties, Apple was deemed dead by Business Week with a cover story "Death of an American Icon". Didn't really work out that way did it?

Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never Is, but always To be blest:
The soul, uneasy and confin'd from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.
-Alexander Pope


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## Guero (Dec 29, 2009)

rockDAWG said:


> If they are good boat builders, why people don't buy their boats.
> 
> I am just sayin'


That's pretty ignorant. A lot of the most respected boats are from companies who are no longer in business. I find it ironic, to see comments from people with boats from bankrupted companies actually make "puns" about this situation.

One of the reasons Sailing is still popular, to a certain extent, is because of companies like Hunter and Beneteau, which many of you guys like to bash. I'm pretty sure Hunter will survive this crisis.

I currently have a deposit on a Hunter 410 2002, waiting for survey on wednesday, will not hesitate to give the balance once the surveyor gives me the thumb up. I also have a 1975 Aloha 34, with 2 inches thick hull for you guys, and a 155 genoa so you can practice your muscles, and a nice deep fin keel and skeg rudder that make backing off a pain in the ass in thigh marinas. Enjoy it (PS, Aloha bankrupted as well)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I too suspect that the Hunter brand will rise from the ashes. It may be spun off or simply shed some of its debt, but there seems to be enough demand in its niche to keep it alive.

Whether warranties are honored is touchy. For a brand to survive, they typically don't want the tarnish of having voided those, even if they were guaranteed by a prior owner or pre-BK. Hard to sell a new boat, if buyers recall a time when warranties vanished, but they will forget a BK (auto makers, Harley Davidson, etc). That is where the economics will decide Hunter's fate. Is the ongoing cash flow worth paying the past liabilities?


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> If they are good boat builders, why people don't buy their boats.


Good boats aren't necessarily in everyone's price range, good builders aren't necessarily good businessmen, and the US economy is in the [email protected] Just sayin' 

And that's as far as I'll go politically speaking. There's a separate forum for that.

On Hunter's bankruptcy, I honestly think it's a shame. Believe it or not, it was a Hunter 45DS that convinced my wife a life at sea would be desirable. As she learnt more about what one desires in a blue water boat and she heard about the quality issues, she started looking at other builders & models. However, it was that boat that transformed my love of sailing into a husband and wife plan for the future.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Melrna said:


> With the dissemination on the middle class over the last 30 years, there will be no one to buy products of a by-gone era. As one company after another denigrates because we can no longer afford the luxury of pastimes and barely keep the family feed and/or a roof over our heads because politicians and wall street greed, corruption and mismanagement by the CEO's/board of directors, the standard of living as we know it is fading into the sunset.
> The boating market has been soft with prices falling on used boats like falling stars from the heavens. Power boaters no longer able to afford the expense of afternoon on the bodies of water with family and friends. We can only dream now by watching "Reality TV" or better yet dream scape during our solitude inside oneself.
> The Hunter bankruptcy and others to follow is not like the the 80's during the "Luxury Tax". People back than still had good jobs and money was available. Today's times money is not there, very tight and personal bankruptcy are at a high time for all but most important, job and especially good paying jobs are being dismantle one by one to Walmart standards.
> In my marina at least 2 boats are being repossessed each week. What used to be a 5 year wait list, now a slip can be had any day. For us sailors there are desperate attempts to get the young interested in the sport. Look around and one can see the futurity of it all. Attendance is down everywhere one looks. Yacht clubs doing things to attract new members.
> ...


Very insightful, Mel. You are kind of a good example of what should be done: Posession of a higher education, and a high tech, well paying, important job.

Instead, people are looking for the easy out, with the quickest pay-off that only benefits themselves in the near term. Younger people want to be the next Kardashian, the next "Jackass", or the next video game legend.

My father used to warn me as a kid: "You'd better get your grades straight. You can't make a living playing video games." Sadly, now you can. The problem with that, is that it contributes nothing to the national well-being and future prosperity. As someone earlier said, people now watch reality TV instead of _doing_ reality-TV worthy deeds.


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## VetMike (Mar 5, 2011)

Sad. I wonder how many folks will now be unemployed.


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## VetMike (Mar 5, 2011)

So right. My nephews spend 6 to 8 hours a night playing on-line games, often of a sort that is more violent then the combat I've seen. Obesity is a major health issue and our jobs are leaving. Maybe now is the time to sail off into the sundset.


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## g0twind (Oct 5, 2010)

I wish the best for Hunter as it was a Hunter 14 that really got me into sailing...


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## ronspiker (Jun 27, 2001)

Chapter 11 is just reorganization Chapter 13 is the one were they are actually liquidated. Warranties should still be safe. Part of the reorg could be splitting of the Sail operations from the Motor operations. Don't panic yet.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I suspect the sailboat side, at least, will carry on. Fan or not, there's no denying that they have got a lot of people into sailing.

Should they eventually fall out of sight, while the demise of any major employer/supplier is always on the sad side, the reality is I think the large majority of us are sailing boats whose builders are long out of business...


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## Saltonsails (Apr 24, 2012)

From what I've read it sounds like people are buying their sailboats and continuing to do so. Hunter Marine based in Florida, is doing well, just not well enough to support the entire company. 

Honestly though, I wouldn't just sit idly by and watch to see what happens. If I'd made a deposit on a new boat, I would get some legal advice.

Personally I hope/believe Hunter will survive any restructuring. If orders and back orders are what they say, it should. If the company is split apart and sold off as separate entities, the sailboat division should do well.

This is however, my layman's take on the whole thing. Just ask my wife how good my "Vision" is with the stock market.......

Love the look of Hunter.


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## GMC (Sep 14, 2009)

ronspiker said:


> Chapter 11 is just reorganization Chapter 13 is the one were they are actually liquidated. Warranties should still be safe. Part of the reorg could be splitting of the Sail operations from the Motor operations. Don't panic yet.


Chapter 11 and 13 are reorganizations (11, typically used for businesses and 13 for individuals). Chapter 7 business and individuals) is the one that leads to a total discharge of debt without reorganization.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I hope the best for Hunter, they certainly gave the most boat for the buck and delivered a decent entry level boat line that got people interested in the sport.....A lot of other builders can't say that. My mother had a Hunter 30 and used it here on the Chesapeake and it was just fine for them. 
I suppose this means that Gemini catamarans are in jeopardy as well since Hunter bought our Performance Cruising a couple of years ago.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

WDS123 said:


> Luhrs Marine Group files for bankruptcy protection | MilitaryFeed.com
> 
> another sad day for the industry


It seems to me that Hunter is holding on:

*Florida-based Hunter Marine, the sailboat builder, has never shut down production, Peterson said, and continues to be up and running. Only one person remains at the powerboat companies, and he's on the Hunter payroll, Peterson confirmed.
.....
Peterson said Hunter has secured interim financing from Bank of America to stay in operation....
....
As for Hunter, Peterson said, "Our orders are fairly strong right now. I think things are going fairly well [for Hunter]. We could certainly pay for ourselves on an ongoing basis, but we could not pay for the whole group on an ongoing basis."....

"Our backlog of orders is more than reasonable and remarkably higher than the last two years. Our Hunter dealers can count on us to continue to aggressively market our boats worldwide as well as continue our RD projects uninterrupted. Hunter's boats, customers and dealers will be supported, as in the past," Peterson added. "Our dealers, our dedicated employees, our products make up the Hunter brand and this action will allow us to continue."

*

For once it was the powerboats that went bankrupt

It seems for me that can be good for Hunter. A profitable company has always buyers and if someone is going to buy it probably is going to inject money and modernize it making it more competitive and profitable. Maybe it is this time I will see a Hunter designed by Farr, German Frers, Soto Acerbal or JK, all great American naval Architects that design European cruising boats. Well Farr is not American but lives and works in America for so many time that I guess that we can consider him naturalized.

Regards

Paulo


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Paulo, both Germán Frers and Javier Soto Acebal are Argentine, not American.... And if by "JK" you mean Juan Kouyoumdjian, then he's also Argentine (a student of Frers). It's quite amazing how Argentina excels in naval engineering and design.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sequitur is a Hunter 49 that is more than half way around two continents right now. Not exactly entry level.


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## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

I don't think that any 49 foot boat would be considered entry level... but Hunter does target the more value oriented customer. It's not a dig at thier quality or construction, but it is what they aim to do and they do it very well.


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## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

Just speculation on my part, but would guess that Hunter is using chapter 11 protection to restructure the power boat part of the business out of the equation. If so, then this move will help Hunter in the long run.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

copacabana said:


> Paulo, both Germán Frers and Javier Soto Acebal are Argentine, not American.... And if by "JK" you mean Juan Kouyoumdjian, then he's also Argentine (a student of Frers). It's quite amazing how Argentina excels in naval engineering and design.


???They are Americans, meaning from America, not from the United States of America. Argentina is a part of America as well as Brasil.

Regards

Paulo


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

PCP said:


> ???They are Americans, meaning from America, not from the United States of America. Argentina is a part of America as well as Brasil.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


I've never known an Argentinean to refer to themselves as an American and I'm related to one. South American maybe.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

PCP said:


> ???They are Americans, meaning from America, not from the United States of America. Argentina is a part of America as well as Brasil.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


As long as USAians don't call themselves Canadians, we are OK with them calling themselves Americans.

To be legit, they would have to name their country the United States of the Some of the Americas.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's the United States of America, not Americas. Are there other united states in America somewhere?


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> It's the United States of America, not Americas. Are there other united states in America somewhere?


Check the edit. 

Canada is actually a bunch of united colonies as well. We just called ourselves provinces instead of states.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

BTW - back on topic.

I too will miss Hunters if they cannot get back on their feet.

I have sailed Alohas, CSs, Coopers, etc. and quite enjoyed them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Check the edit.
> 
> Canada is actually a bunch of united colonies as well. We just called ourselves provinces instead of states.


Feel free to rename your country from an Indian word for village to the United Provinces of America. 

United is a stretch for a country with two languages and having been up close and personal with French Canadians, I wouldn't describe them as united with the rest of you.

You started it....


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Back to Hunters and Luhrs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Deal


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Come to think of it, I have skippered a Mainship 40. The bow and stern thrusters made docking effortless.


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## andresi (Jun 19, 2010)

we compete in a world market place where govts own half the business and dictate salaries,and subsudies cost, is that what we believe to be fair and free enterprise no are lives are being compromised daily, when do we fight for what we believe in ,the time has come.


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## Guero (Dec 29, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Feel free to rename your country from an Indian word for village to the United Provinces of America.
> 
> United is a stretch for a country with two languages and having been up close and personal with French Canadians, I wouldn't describe them as united with the rest of you.
> 
> You started it....


You might want to go to sailing anarchy forum with that kind of stuff, they love talking about sailing while on land.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

andresi said:


> we compete in a world market place where govts own half the business and dictate salaries,and subsudies cost, is that what we believe to be fair and free enterprise no are lives are being compromised daily, when do we fight for what we believe in ,the time has come.


What are you suggesting? Going to war with China to save Hunter perhaps?

I'm unaware of any government owned yacht manufacturers, anywhere in the world. Your statement that "govts own half the business" needs a bit of backing. It certainly isn't true of any democratic country I'm familiar with.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> I've never known an Argentinean to refer to themselves as an American and I'm related to one. South American maybe.


An European perspective maybe You guys are all Americans, ones North Americans others Central Americans and others South-Americans. Not any disrespect meant, just a fact.

Regards

Paulo


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> Sequitur is a Hunter 49 that is more than half way around two continents right now. Not exactly entry level.


Sorry if my post is misleading, I said that they provide a decent entry level boat, BUT.....I did not expand on the rest of their line.......However, the part where they deliver the most boat for the buck still applies
Hunter builds boats from 15 to 50 feet with an emphasis on entry level boats.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Now I understand Paulo! It's just that in English the word "American" always means USAian . In Brazil USAians are called "norteamericanos", which is even more confusing because Canadians also think of themselves as "North Americans". Brazilians don't call themselves Americans, nor do Argentines. In fact, we now think of ourselves as "Mercosul". Confusing enough?? Anyway, I suppose we also lump all of you guys together as "Europeans" ... But it still stands that Argentina has terrific nautical engineers and designers and seem to have an influence world-wide far in excess of their small population.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

Interesting: if you do a search for their major creditors it's all financing and business services - not nuts and bolts or boat bits. Don't know enough about Chap11 filing to know if that's the norm or not.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

It's a shame about Hunter, but not a surprise given the economy. When real estate values plummet and unemployment soars, the toys are the first thing to go. Seriously, have you priced a new boat lately? It would take someone with a very large savings account or immense job confidence to sign on for a new boat these days. Unfortunately there are a lot less folks in that position today. Add in fuel costs for power boaters and it's like the final nail in the coffin. I hope they survive, their interiors are very nice.

Mike


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## anthemj24 (Aug 24, 2011)

I know this is probably heretical to say here, but is it really so horrible that fewer people will be boating? I actually enjoy having more of the water to myself. Younger people today seem to be more interested in lower overhead sports like kayaking, hiking, rafting, mountain biking, etc. I say let them, I can still sail and have more space to do it in. Owning a large boat is a huge commitment and expense for what is largely a seasonal activity. Maybe people are just making a judgement call that they would rather spend less, work less, and go kayaking or biking rather than sailing or water skiing. I would encourage them to do that, not discourage them. 

As far as the doom and gloom about the economy and middle class, we are in a different world than 20 or 30 years ago. In fact it is so different that I am not sure there are any metrics accurate enough to compare the standards of living. Globalization has put downward pressure on salaries of some professions to be sure, however there has also been somewhat of a revolution in everything we spend money on. There are tons of things we would have had to spend money on in the past, which are absolutely free today. That is a trend which is likely to continue. A bigger free economy is a far greater equalizer of opportunity than stone age industrial jobs at a steel plant, mill, or car company. For those who can only see the dark clouds overhead, I really feel bad for you. One day history will look back at this as one of the greatest times of opportunity, and instead of appreciate the very special moment of history we are occupying, instead spent it bemoaning the fact that it is now hard to get a crappy job doing miserable work that pays well.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

Luckily we live in The Age Of Fiberglass. Plenty of boats to go around - some are old and in need a bit of work, but then that just separates the men from the boys (or the women from the girls, as the case may be).


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

anthemj24 said:


> I know this is probably heretical to say here, but is it really so horrible that fewer people will be boating? I actually enjoy having more of the water to myself.


This is similar thinking to the people who live in the housing developments being built near me on former farmland, after they get _their_ house, complain about the loss of open space and farmland when the farmer down the road wants to sell _his_ land to a developer so that he can enjoy his retirement.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

anthemj24 said:


> is it really so horrible that fewer people will be boating?


A while ago I started reading about all the people dumping their boats due to the economy, so I decided to shop around for a new slip. I found vacancies at every marina in Marina del Rey and was able to negotiate my monthly slip rent down from $ 680 to $ 525. Not bad.

Mike


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## anthemj24 (Aug 24, 2011)

DRFerron said:


> This is similar thinking to the people who live in the housing developments being built near me on former farmland, after they get _their_ house, complain about the loss of open space and farmland when the farmer down the road wants to sell _his_ land to a developer so that he can enjoy his retirement.


I don't know that it is quite like that. If people are out on the water, I don't spend my time complaining about them. They have every right to use the water, just as I do. I just don't see what is so bad about it being less crowded out there.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

anthemj24 said:


> I don't know that it is quite like that. If people are out on the water, I don't spend my time complaining about them. They have every right to use the water, just as I do. I just don't see what is so bad about it being less crowded out there.


Marina owners will be feeling squeezed. Fewer power boats out there means lower fuel sales, less revenue from their repair shops and less revenue from slip rentals.

If the double whammy of high fuel prices and a stagnant economy stay in place I'd expect to see some marinas close as well.

Less crowded is nice for a quiet saturday sail, but not so great for the industry as a whole.


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