# Island Packet



## ESSCAPOD (Oct 6, 2000)

we are starting on the road to ownership of a preowned island packet 38'', probably around an 89 or 90. We have heard nothing but wonderful feedback so far and would appreciate any additional information that anyone might have.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi there,

not sure how to phrase this, but after looking at a bunch of boats, I decided against the IPs for various reasons. For one, they aren''t my kind of boat (too heavy). For another, I think they have gotten way too expensive for what they offer. If I was going for something along this line of boat, I''d check out Valiants, or maybe a used Lafitte 44. Or, check out Bob Perry''s website for the boat-buying advice service. 

...Chris


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Quoting from my comments comparing a Benteau 411 to the Island Packet:

"I have always thought that Island Packets are way over priced and way over sold; very often (but not always) to people who are entering the sport. (I base that comment on conversations that I have had with past and present Island Packet owners at boat shows. I am always amazed how many say that an IP was their first boat.) 

Island Packets have never made any sense at all for the way most of us use our boats on the U.S.Atlantic coast. They are not good as light to moderate air sailers (the predominant summer condition on the mid U.S. Atlantic Coast) and they don''t seem to be great heavy weather boats either. The 380 really lacks a lot of the key components that I would look for in an offshore cruiser (seaberths for instance). For that matter, I have never been all that impressed with the build quality of the Island Packets(but some people are) because of such items as iron ballast in concrete (recently changed to lead in polyester resin which is slightly better), or the post mounted rudder masquerading as a keel hung rudder with a rather flimsey strap at it''s bottom to mention a couple deal buster kind of issues. I do think some of their details are quite nice for liveaboard types. 

To me, it comes down to your goals for buying a sailboat (and people buy sailboats for a lot of reasons most of which are equally valid with each other). If you are just buying a boat to live on and you really do not care how well the boat sails or how much time you will spend motoring, then the Island Packet might work for you. 

But if you are buying a sailboat because you really want to sail well and want to be able to voyage from place to place driven on the force of the wind, then there are much better sailing boats out there for the same dollars. 

IP are designed around the idea (directly or indirectly) that there is merit to craming a lot of room and weight into a short hull. Based on my 37 years of sailing experience there is no excuse and no real advantage to that approach to yacht design other than perhaps a concern with slip fees. 

Island Packets seem to offer a lot room in a short package but what real good is that? None that I know of. 

When dealing with wind and wave, a finer hull actually does better. Nothing succeeds like length(read both the Fastnet and Sidney Hobart disaster reports). Stubby is wet and feel greater impacts from each wave. 

As I have said many times, weight in and of itself does nothing good for a boat. It does not make it strong, or stable, or comfortable in a seaway. It does not give a boat the ability to survive a big storm or an unexpected visit to the beach. 

Heavier boats, that are not carefully modeled, (and in my opinion the IP''s are not all that well modeled) require more sail area to drive their greater drag through the water. In my experience, this means more physical strength is required to sail them and as a result, if you try to sail them well, they wear you out sooner. 

Then there is motion at sea. There are two factors that lead to uncomfortable motion, roll angle and roll speed. Navy studies suggest that both have equal impact on the comfort of people onboard boats. IP salesmen make a strong point about its slow roll rate but from observation, they seem to roll through much wider roll angles than other boats around them. I have sailed up behind them and really studied them on windier days (you rarely see them sailing in normal conditions) and they are making lots of leeway and seemed to be heeled more acutely than other cruising boats around them. Looking at rudder angles and at the owner''s faces, they seem to be fighting for control when a true offshore boat should not be. 

I know that there are a fair number of IP''s out there cruising and that there are IP owners who like their boat. (Most people do like their boats.) I also know that a lot of these boats are sold to people with big dreams, some who never really learn to sail the boats or become prematurely convinced that sailing is a lot more difficult than it really is. To these people (and I have met quite a few of them) their Island Packet was a graveyard of dreams. As I have said before, from my observations, in the long run, I think you would be better off buying a trawler if you are going to cruise the U.S. Mid-Atlantic coast, than an IP since you will probably spend less time motoring."

Respectfully
Jeff


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you like to sail then take a sail on a IP 38, a Erickson 38, a Tartan 40 CB and maybe a Catlina 380. Don''t listen to the IP brokers. They lie.

I would not have an IP if it were free as I like to sail.

MM


----------



## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

I have an IP 40 and will agree with one of the comments above--that an IP may not be suitable for midatlantic coastal cruising. I'll add that I would also rather have a C&C 99 than my IP for Key West Race Week.

However, I don't do either of these in my boat. I live aboard and cruise the E and W Caribbean full time. This past season, I was able to sail from Venezeula up and down the E Caribbean as far as Puerto Rico. I returned to Venezuela by making a passage South from St. Croix. 90% of the time this past season I was sailing and not motoring. Do I like to sail? I love to.

I have been cruising for the past 20 months. In this time I have seen far more IP owners out here than Catalinas, Ericksons, and Tartans combined. In addition to having a fine boat, you'll open the door to a group of passionate owners that will freely share their experience with their boats.

Some good friends of mine recently completed a clockwise circle of the Caribbean in their IP 38. The name of the vessel is S/V Good Hope. Do a search and you'll find their website.

Best Regards, 
ConchCruzer
S/V Eventyr IP40
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr


----------



## chuck711 (Dec 25, 2002)

*Apples And Oranges Full Keel Ocean Boats or Fin Keel Racers/Cruisers*

Put down your sailing magazines for a minute!

How do you compare Benteau ,Catalinas, Ericksons, and Tartans to an IP??

Do you think these Fin keel light boats can handle days out there with a serious Following sea and wind off your stern quarter? Lets not even get into a wing keel discussion.....You've never rocked rail to rail at anchor on a Benteau .

In the trades a heavy boat will beat any day a Light Displacement Fin Keel. They will be reefed down while a IP will be pushing Hull Speed.

All these boats can make the trip however you'll do it easiers on an IP.

In regards to a Valiant it came in dead last in the 2006 Newport Bermuda
Race........

By the way just a ex-cruiser who has a Fin keel light weight boat.

Esscapod has made a good choice an used IP 38 holds its price and is hard to find on the market.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A lot of whether the IP 38 is really the right boat for Esscapod has to do with what kind of sailing he is planning on doing. If he is mainly going to be *weekending on the local bay, or daysailing, the IP38 is probably not the right boat* for him.

If he is planning on* setting sail to see what lies beyond the sunset...then the IP38 might be a very good choice*. Before giving him advice on whether the boat is an appropriate choice, it might be good to hear from him and find out what his plans are.


----------



## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> Heavier boats, that are not carefully modeled, (and in my opinion the IP''s are not all that well modeled) require more sail area to drive their greater drag through the water. In my experience, this means more physical strength is required to sail them and as a result, if you try to sail them well, they wear you out sooner.
> 
> I have sailed up behind them and really studied them on windier days (you rarely see them sailing in normal conditions) and they are making lots of leeway and seemed to be heeled more acutely than other cruising boats around them. Looking at rudder angles and at the owner''s faces, they seem to be fighting for control when a true offshore boat should not be.
> 
> ...


Thought I'd interject a couple of "left coast" observations Jeff's Mid Altlantic
analyisis.

On the first quoted paragraph, I agree that heavier vessels require more sail area. Elsewhere I have stated that on full keel heavy designs that horsepower is the name of the game. This may or may not require more physical strenth to sail depending on, the vessels design and her purchase systems

Here, in light air San Diego I have not observed any IP's sailing well to windward either. In fact I had been able to sail over the top of a few of them in my old 1964 CCA S/S 30 foot full keeled centerboard design. (I no longer own the beloved "Athena"). At Jeffs comments on the wallowing of the vessels and especially of the discriptions of extreme rudder angles and helmsmens strained faces; I wonder if some of this might be attributed to a lack of experience in trim and sail selection?

Dewey


----------



## Sonofasonofasailor (Feb 22, 2006)

Before this thread really gets going I'd like to point out that it was started 6 years ago and the originator has likely made his decision.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jaime- You're ruining all the fun... I was seeing if any one else would notice someone dug up an old thread.


----------



## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Jaime- You're ruining all the fun... I was seeing if any one else would notice someone dug up an old thread.


It would appear that several old threads have been resuurected.

Dewey


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I actually like reading the old threads. For what its worth, (and its totally irrelevant at this point), I think IP's are excellent boats. They are comfortable, solid, extremely well built and sail well in all wind conditions. Sure you can argue that you only need a day sailor but if you can afford the Mercedes of boats, why not?


----------



## Sonofasonofasailor (Feb 22, 2006)

Just pointing it out Dan - have at it.
I thought it hilarious to debate comments from 6 years ago though.

I love some of the old threads thoug..."Suddenly Inherited a boat" is my fav so far.



sailingdog said:


> Jaime- You're ruining all the fun... I was seeing if any one else would notice someone dug up an old thread.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... and in some cases the old threads have been made irrelavant by advances in technology...  On one board I was on, forget which one, they had dug up an old LORAN thread... With the advent of cheap GPS units, LORAN is less than useful.


----------



## mikeronie (Jul 6, 2004)

I know this is an old thread however I must add my 2 cents worth. My first boat was a 1972 Ericson 32 current boat is an Island Packet 350. The only thing the Ericson had over the IP is it's light air ability. I am on the left coast and most of my sailing is to Catalina and back. At times there is light winds with calm seas but I have been in the San Pedro Channel many times when it was windy and rough. When it gets rough the IP has it all over the Ericson. 

As for speed, last Sunday on my return trip from Catalina we had 12 knots wind from 60 to 80 degrees freshing to 18 knots by mid channel with confused seas of 5 feet. We had full main, staysail and 130% jib up. Our boat speed ranged from a low of 6.2 knots to a high of 8.1 knots. The wife and I were comfortable. Had we been on our old Ericson it would have been an E ticket ride with a double reefed main and rolled in jib. BTH on the way home we passed an Alberg 35 and a Catalina 36 that left the Island 30 minutes ahead of us.

The one thing my IP lacks is upwind in light air. I have solved this by using a code 0 spinnaker. It works like a drifter in light air allowing me to point to 45 degrees. 
Mike IP350 #131
Aquila


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*hmmmm - veddy intadesting*

I enjoyed reading your post, Jeff H. It made me realize how much homework I have to do before I buy a boat. So since you sound like you know as much about sailing as anyone else around here, let me ask you this: (I'm a new member here and maybe not familiar with the proper protocol so I hope I'm not starting WWIII) but if I'm looking for a good all around sailboat in the 42 to 51 ft range with the best VALUE (good bang for the buck), where do you think Beneteau's stack up?


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

BayouElton... Where will you be sailing and what type of sailing do you plan to do. Living aboard, weekending etc?
On a scale of 1-10 in terms of construction the Bene's rank in the low digits...while for space and livability they rank high. They are generally pretty fast boats as well. Price is cheap compared to better built boats. They are most frequently compared to other mass production boats like Hunter, Catalina, Bavaria, Jeaneau.


----------



## windship (May 4, 2002)

Quote)I know this is an old thread however I must add my 2 cents worth. My first boat was a 1972 Ericson 32 current boat is an Island Packet 350. The only thing the Ericson had over the IP is it's light air ability.(unquote

Are you saying that your IP went to weather the as well as your Ericson did!!??

If you are reasonable, you all will find that Jeff is 100% correct. I used to be a heavy displacement, full keel, two stick man....I listened, did my homework and kept an open mind. My next boat will be the opposite of what I believed back then.


----------



## windship (May 4, 2002)

45 degrees to weather with the engine lit and in gear!
Island Packet's?? No thanks.

Dennis


----------



## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

The Beneteau First 42 from the mid to late eighties is a great boat, IMHO, if you can find one tha thas been maintained. Frers design, higher build quality than many other Beneteaus, fairly stiff and fast. Personally, I would only consider the lead keel and not the iron one but that is open to debate.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I saw your article asking about the Island Packets, I read some of the comments above and would not agree that because they are heavy that they are bad. It really depends on your goals. I own an Island Packet 370, which is just shy of 38 feet long. We race this boat and it does great! The weight is 21000 pounds and she is a cutter rig. Because of the cutter rig, which every IP can have, there is room for quite a large sail plan. I have noticed that ours does very well in light air, for example it could be 8 knonts of wind and we sail at 4 to 5 knots in that light air. Another advantage of this boat in a race is alot of fin keels with less ballast have to reef their boats and we can keep going with 20 knots and full sail up including the staysail!!! If you are going to live on a boat the Island Packet is like a floating home, no joke it is very well laid out. The full keel also provides one with comfort in heavy seas as well as light ones. I am a dealer for Island Packet as well as Catalina boats


----------



## awayocean (Oct 12, 2004)

Just deliver 440,VERY GOOD BLUE WATER BOAT.18-20 knots of wind 7-9 knots boat speed,full main and geny,comfortable ride.........................NIIIICE and easy for sailing.


----------



## mikeronie (Jul 6, 2004)

Windship:
My old Ericson 32 would point closer to the wind and sail faster in light air than my IP however when the wind kicks up to 15 knots or so close hauled with 5+ foot seas the ride was uncomfortable. With the IP I don't point as high but the ride is much more comfortable, I would gladly give up a few degrees of pointing for comfort. With the Ericson my wife would get sea sick quite often. With the IP she has not had a bit of it even in 35 to 40 knot winds and 15 foot seas. As I stated in light air I can fly my code 0 and point higher than I can with the 130% jib and go faster. For a few of us out there that are getting on in years and don't like to be beat up on the water I looked for a boat that woud be more comfortable. I found that in the IP. The only thing I would like more than my IP 350 would be a larger IP. BTH I do not work for any boat company or dealer.

Mike IP350 #131
Aquila


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*We race this boat and it does great!*



bikeboyjosh said:


> I saw your article asking about the Island Packets, I read some of the comments above and would not agree that because they are heavy that they are bad. It really depends on your goals. I own an Island Packet 370, which is just shy of 38 feet long. We race this boat and it does great! The weight is 21000 pounds and she is a cutter rig. Because of the cutter rig, which every IP can have, there is room for quite a large sail plan. I have noticed that ours does very well in light air, for example it could be 8 knonts of wind and we sail at 4 to 5 knots in that light air. Another advantage of this boat in a race is alot of fin keels with less ballast have to reef their boats and we can keep going with 20 knots and full sail up including the staysail!!! If you are going to live on a boat the Island Packet is like a floating home, no joke it is very well laid out. The full keel also provides one with comfort in heavy seas as well as light ones. I am a dealer for Island Packet as well as Catalina boats


Josh,
Wow, sounds great. It's amazing that such a heavy, blunt form can perform. Moving 21,000 pounds at 5 knotes in little breeze almost seems to defy some law of physics. I had this old notion that the IPs were really slugs, so it's interesting to hear that they can actually move! I can see why you're enthused, aside from also being a dealer. Any chance you could post a link or two to the race results, its always interesting to see what the competition is.


----------



## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Maybe it does well because of the handicaps.

Here are the PHRF handicaps for Island Packets in New England:

ISLAND PACKET 26-2 252
ISLAND PACKET 27 234
ISLAND PACKET 29 204
ISLAND PACKET 320 198
ISLAND PACKET 35 186
ISLAND PACKET 38 168
ISLAND PACKET 40 156
ISLAND PACKET 420 141
ISLAND PACKET 45 126

By comparison, a Valiant 42 cutter rates 123, a Catalina 42 96, and a 1960's design Cal 40...120.

Bill


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

btrayfors said:


> Maybe it does well because of the handicaps.
> 
> Here are the PHRF handicaps for Island Packets in New England:
> 
> ...


Bill,

My personal experience is that slow boats (boats with a lot of time credit for their length) seem to very rarely race to their albiet slow ratings. I am unsure why this would be true - it just is. It could be that handicappers just don't give enough extra time to boats that basically lag the performance envelop, maybe there's subconcious discrimination. But more likely its because sailers who race care about performance and therefore simply don't buy slow or clunky boats. (Perhaps this post needs to go to Fight Club for Sailors?)....

I'd bet sailers who are knowledgeable racers would much rather try to get 120 out of a Cal 40, than 126 out of an IP 45.


----------



## tainoyosoy (Jul 5, 2008)

THis thread may be 6 years old, but I'm finding the information useful as I'm considering purchasing a 1999 350 IP. My other consideration is a 2008 35 Catalina. We are new to sailing and want to buy a boat that will allow us to in the future sail to FLorida and the Carribeans. We currently have a motor boat and use it in the Chesapeake Bay. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

tainoyosoy said:


> THis thread may be 6 years old, but I'm finding the information useful as I'm considering purchasing a 1999 350 IP. My other consideration is a 2008 35 Catalina. We are new to sailing and want to buy a boat that will allow us to in the future sail to FLorida and the Carribeans. We currently have a motor boat and use it in the Chesapeake Bay. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


Buy the IP and don't listen to anyone but your heart (the IP isn't for everyone anymore than any boat is the boat for everyman - but it may be the boat for you, just like my Bristol is the boat for me, not everyone) If you aren't going to race around the bouys or putz around in some light air bay (that of course doesn't include SF Bay or Corpus Christi Bay where the winds blow all the time), then stay away from the fin keel/spade rudder boats - they are not as forgiving as you might want in a real blow at sea (they go to wind nicely, but are not well suited to spend hours running before a big storm - and if you sail offshore for long periods of time, you will run into bad weather) - and they tend to draw more water, so you're a bit more limited in gunkholing in the Carribean. The full keel or cutaway forefoot/skeg hung rudder boats may be slower, but they will serve you better when things really aren't going your way offshore and they draw less water when you want to get way up into that senic cove in the islands - a nice big keel and protected rudder is also more comforting when you scrape across a reef head in the beautiful turquoise water (don't get caught doing that, the local authorities take a dim view of altering the local terrain).


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

My knock against IPs is that they are lousy sailing boats, too heavy with short masts. Realize the problem with a slow sailing boat is not just you take longer to get somewhere, but you end up powering a lot because in light to average winds the IPs don't move. Other peopel can have other opinions, but I stick with what I know...as I enjhoy sailing my boat here and there, most IPS I see are under pwoer, it is in frequent to one sailing. Just my experience. The Catalina would be a better for your intended use.

I'd rather buy a nice trawler than an IP...then you wouldn't have all that rigging cluttering up the accomodations.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If you plan to continue to sail on the Chesapeake, I can't imagine a worse choice than an Island Packet. They are next to useless as sailboat in the prevailing light winds of the Chesapeake Bay. Essentially, in our prevailing summer light winds or even in our moderate breezes of spring and fall, they are a motor boat with a mast. But also in the changeable conditions of our summers, and light air punctuated by thunderstorms, with thier high drag hulls and the large overlapping sails that it takes to sail in even moderate conditions, they are slow to shift gears and so don't do well when you suddenly have to deal with a blow. 

The other issue is the vulnerability of their rudders. The Bay has a lot of shallow areas, and dispite the IP's long keel their rudders are still post-hung spade rudders. But unlike most boats that are properly designed with a post hung spade rudder, their rudders are as deep as their keels and therefore expecially prone to damage in a grounding. 

I think that John Shasteen has given you a good historical viewpoint albiet one that is quite dated, on long keels and attached rudder design, but one that does not actually apply in the case of the IP's, nor with the better designed fin keel/spade rudder, or fin keel/ skeg hung rudder coastal cruisers, which also a very adequate for cruising the Bahamas and Carribbean. 

I am always concerned when I see someone trying to choose between something like the IP350 and a Cat 35. These are such extremely different boats that I respectfully suggest that you should take more time and try to get more experience in sailing. Sail on as many boats of as many types as you can. Your plans do not require anything all that special, but you will want a boat with adequate carrying capacities, comfortable motion, reasonable light and heavy air capabilities, and good ease of handling, a mixture that neither boat offers. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

IP owners seem to be very loyal. My thought is that in that price point, you can get something well-built that will perform a lot better (Tartan or Sabre, e.g.). And about the racing, I don't do a ton of racing but I don't recall any IPs doing all that well.


----------



## donradclife (May 19, 2007)

I just came through the Cap Cod Canal and sailed up to Provincetown for the 4th of July. When I exited the canal, we had 5-8 knots of wind on the nose for the 20 mile passage, so we started sailing. There was an IP right behind me, who ended up unfurling his staysail, but motored the whole way.

It took us 5 hours to tack our way up to P-town, and the IP probably got in an hour before us, but I had an enjoyable day. If the IP's motor had failed, it would probably still be out there.

We have a Beneteau First 456, which is a joy to sail and and has a PHRF rating of 60. We have taken it around the world, and it has come through a lot of heavy weather without problems or damage.

Buy whatever boat you fall in love with, and you will be happy wth her, but if you would prefer motoring to sailing, buy the IP.


----------



## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

I respectfully disagree with everything that JeffH has stated about Island Packets. Everyone has an opinion. Here's how I've developed mine, so you can judge how much weight to give it.

Boats that I've sailed: Beneteau, Sabre, Ericson, Pearson, Bayfield, Comet (36' Italian sloop), ODay, Columbia, Moody, and Island Packet. I've owned an Island Packet 380 for six years. Four of those years, we lived on the Chesapeake Bay and cruised it extensively. We've also made several offshore passages between the Chesapeake to/from Bermuda and to/from the Caribbean. We've cruised up and down the Lesser Antilles numerous times. I've even run aground two or three times!

I've sailed about 12,000 nm on my IP 380 in every condition up to Force 9. All of it was either single-handing in the Bay and the Caribbean (my wife doesn't want to sail the boat), or standing single watches with crew offshore. My longest watch was 11 hours in continuous squalls up to 50 kts, and confused, steep waves in the Gulf Stream. I'm 63 years old, in average condition. The boat is a joy to sail, comfortable, dry, and definitely does not "wear me out". Quite the contrary. The all roller-furling cutter rig allows me to set the perfect amount of sail, and adjust it easily from the cockpit, in any conditions. In light air, I have a cruising spinnaker. Fun sailing 5 kts in 7-8 kts of wind! Passage times to the Caribbean from Virginia (1,400 nm) have been 8.8 days and 9.8 days, not too shabby. We were first in class and seventh overall in the 2004 Caribbean 1500, beating several larger boats on elapsed time, including a Saga 43.

I do agree with Jeff on one thing. If you're deciding between an Island Packet and a Catalina, you haven't really thought this through. Get some more sailing experience on each of them, including some cruising, if you can.


----------



## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

> I respectfully disagree with everything that JeffH has stated about Island Packets.


Same here but he helped to sell me on Island Packets. I think his posts deserve a review by anyone considering an IP. No need to read them all as the same themes are reoccurring, themes which may or may not be top considerations for the individuals next purchase.

From a certain perspective I suspect they are correct but not for me. I can tell by his concerns that we do very different sailing in very different conditions as a result we would not agree on what is correct or better when it comes to sailboats.

I know many think there are correct answers when it comes to sailboat design and there are in the big picture (keel is better than no keel) but I have learned from past experience that the Zen of an activity does not come from using the best, latest or most expensive machinery. There is a beauty that can be experienced from a "perfect" machine but that is not always the best goal to have, it can be frustrating and expensive.

It is something I learned from decades of motorcycling. Only a motorcyclist might understand but I see many parallels. The perfect motorcycle is by definition light, fast and responsive. A machine that enables the rider and motorcycle to become one unit executing technically perfect maneuvers, a machine that challenges and rewards the rider who has superior riding ability. To that end there are certain specifications and combinations of specifications that are better than others and there are some that are simply wrong and no motorcycle should be built with those specs.

Or so I thought for decades.

My first motorcycle was a Harley Davidson, a project bike that I never did get to ride but one that left a bit of a soft spot for H-D's. I never owned another because H-D's are simply wrong. They are way too heavy, handle like tractors, dragging bits and pieces through every corner, heck some do not even have suspensions as modern bikes know them and they are slow. Agonizingly slow with large underpowered lumps of air cooled metal for engines. Just how wrong was clearly shown to me one dyno day when I was getting a baseline for my new stock motorcycle. My buddies H-D with more $ in engine work than my total purchase had 100ft/lbs of torque, 60% more displacement and 30% less power and it still handled like an H-D.

Why would anyone buy an H-D or the numerous knock-offs? Yet many did and it was clear to me that they enjoyed motorcycling as much as I even if it took them an extra hour or two to catch up at the end of the day.

Slowly over the years I learned that riding is not about the bike but the whole experience. People like H-D's for many reasons, most of which will not show up in a list of technical specs. I also learned that the "technically" inferior bike is often the superior bike for a given task or person. The Zen or pinnacle of motorcycling can be experienced, is more often experienced, on a "lesser" motorcycle.

The correct motorcycle is the one the rider likes, damn the specs! "It" isn't about the motorcycle. "It" is about the ride. I suspect the same holds true for Sailing.

So while IPs to not spec out as well as the latest racing designs they are superior in so many ways that they will remain popular for a long time to come.


----------



## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

I would keep an eye on your chainplates IP owners, their sealant anyway. And those considering an IP should have them carefully inspected. I was looking strongly at a '85, 31'er five years ago and found the PO had a chainplate failure on the starboard side. Instead of a proper repair, he had someone mount the plate outboard. I got an estimate of $4k for cabinet removal plus the cost of the chain plates. (one side) 

These things are totally imbedded (glassed) into the hull with no way of removal or inspecting without major dismantling of the cabinetwork. If there is any water intrusion into those chainplate wells, you'll have big problems and will not know it....well, 'til something breaks. I'm not sure how one is supposed to inspect the chainplates other than x-ray vision. Hopefully, IP doesn't do that any more with later models.

Also, to my eye, IP's have the thinnest full keel I've ever seen on a boat. It just seems like a poor trade off of strength to all that wetted surface as opposed to more traditional full keeled boats (and me likes full keels ). Otherwise, they look like very well laid out quality boats and they are quite PROUD of them too.$$$$ . BTW, I passed on that boat and never looked at another IP.

Bob


----------



## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

I never bought a H-D, to each his own.

EDIT: BTW the only inspection the IP chainplates need can be done each year when they are resealed or inspected as per the owner manual recommendation.


----------



## Remittance (Feb 21, 2011)

Old thread, I realize, but I came across it and feel compelled to weigh in since I've owned both a Catalina and now an Island Packet 350. Keeping the engine off in light air is the challenge for an IP, but we have mastered it with a few simple steps. First of all, you must have good sails (I use laminate sails and replace often), a gennaker and a whisker pole. Second, learn your downwind rigs - dual headsail, gennaker/headsail, wing-and-wing genoa/staysail, wing-and-wing genoa/main. With those tools, my IP will do 50% of wind speed down to 5 kts of true wind on any point of sail, and will tack through 100 degrees when hand steered. It won't win races, but I'm not a racer. I'm a cruiser. I can leave from Myrtle Beach and cross the 400 nm to the Bahamas in 3.5 days, cruise in comfort with 4'3" of draft and return home on less than a tank of fuel. There is a reason IP owners are so fanatical; these are great boats for a sailing couple that will take you and all your stuff safely and comfortably around the world. That's why Caribbean anchorages are filled with them.


----------



## SeaQuinn (Jul 31, 2012)

All I can add is that in Boats as in all else you most often get what you pay for....there are reasons why IP's keep such a high resale value and are so in demand. Talk to owners and check out the owners websites and blogs. See what happens when IP owners sell their boats and buy another boat.....usually another IP. 

They are not for everyone, but for those of us whose needs they serve perfectly, they are the right boat for us!


----------



## gonesail (Mar 17, 2006)

hphoen said:


> If you're deciding between an Island Packet and a Catalina, you haven't really thought this through. Get some more sailing experience on each of them, including some cruising, if you can.


that still sounds right to me  would like to hear some updated info on the IP 38 and 40 .. am looking for reasons to own one. thanks.


----------

