# Morgan 27



## larsfis (Jan 11, 2003)

Any opinions on the Morgan 27 for coastal sailing in S. Florida?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I assume that you are referring to the 1970''s era Morgan 27 which was an early IOR race boat. I raced these when I lived in Savannah in the late 1970''s. Depending on where in S. Florida you are living, at 4''6" draft these may have a little too deep draft to be convenient. 

In a general sense these were good sailing raceboats for their day. They were reasonably fast upwind. Their day was short lived. By the mid-1970''s small boats like the J-24, Kirby 25, Capri 25 was pointing race boats in a different direction and the Morgan 27''s became pretty obsolete as race boats. 

As cruisers there were two models, one very stripped out and the other with a decent interior for a race boat of that era. They had a number of options which included a deep and shallow keel option (most were shallow), outboard or inboard, and a tall rig and standard rig. The standard rig would not be the best option for S Florida as they are undercanvassed in the lighter winds that are so common down there. Neither would the outboard which was hard to keep in the water in the short chop found on the Atlantic Coastal inlets. 

Because of the large genoas and spinackers they required a larger crew than you would normally expect on a boat this size. We typicially raced with 7 or 8 on board, partially to keep the boat on its feet in a breeze but partially to have enough people to run the boat. That is a very big racing crew for a boat this size (compared to a Laser 28, for example, which we normally raced with 5 or 6) These were boats that were at their best in a narrow wind range between 10 and 14 knots or so. After 15 knots they tended to get over-powered and became a real handful. Typicial of boats that depend on large headsails and small mainsails, these boats were sailed with a huge sail inventory for a boat this size carrying 5 or 6 headsails but due to the primitive sail handling gear we typcically sailed with whatever we started the race with. Perhaps with modern sails and sail handling gear you can make more frequent sail changes to reduce the amount that you are being over- or under- powered.

The 27''s were not all that well built. The ones that I raced would flex terribly at the shroud attachment points when beating in heavy air. There was a later factory fix, and the early boats were often retro fitted with knees to brace the topsides and deck. There were also keel attachment problems. The heavily swept back keel was a real pain in the butt when these boats ran aground because they had a lot of leverage against the keel bolts and the keel attachment was not all that well engineered. Some of the raceboat 27''s that I was on, had also beefed up the keel connection structure either before or after needing to do so. 

It is really hard to say what I would recommend on these boats today. I enjoyed sailing on them when they were new and competitive. They had begun life as racers and there is nothing more obsolete than an obsolete racer. BUT still and all, some had nice interiors and offered a lot of boat for the money. They had a lot of build quality issues but these should either have been corrected or be very obvious in a survey. 

Good luck,
Jeff


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## larsfis (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks for your insight, Jeff. 

I had hoped the M27 was an answer to my prayers. Fast, standing headroom in the 26''- 29'' range. But alas, any boat that needs so many to sail is questionable, not to mention your many other exceptions - especially build quality.

The last thought on my waning interest in the M27 is cockpit size. It''s tiny! Short and narrow, I guess everyone was meant to be sitting on the rail all day long. No thanks.

Jeff, about your comment on the outboard engine and Atlantic Coastal inlets; would not not recommend an outboard motor at all on a sailboat in S. Florida?

Thanks again,
Lars.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

To some extent it depends on where you are sailing in Florida and what you want to do with the boat. I had Outboard powered boats in the Miami area and they were OK. Further north or out in the Gulfstream things get very bumpy and I was not pleased with how outboards worked in the short chop. St. Augustine inlet in particular can be tough to get into and trying to slip in can really require an engine you can count on. 

But while I personally do not like outboards for that area, there are many people who do and get by with them. 

Jeff


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## BigApple (Apr 19, 2010)

I currently race a Morgan 27 in Galveston Bay and have some very good results. In 20-25 knots we do even better.
With a little tender care and new sales the boat goes to weather in 12-18 knots as well as any boat in the fleet. I think that you were a little premature in writting the boat off. A month ago we raced against a 28 boast fleet and with 109's, 105's, J-80's and J-24's the winning boat in the spin class was a J-24. Over a 22 mile course and her giving me 24 seconds a mile we finished 10 seconds behind them on elapsed time. You do the math.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

There was a later 27 designed by Morgan. Built by Chrysler then TMI- Nice boat if fixed up. Here is a picture of one currently for sale.


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## BigApple (Apr 19, 2010)

Nice boat! I almost purchased one several years ago out of Tampa. Do you know what they are asking for the boat?


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

The Morgan designed Chrysler 27 owner is asking $23,500. Boat is a one owner 1981 sailed exclusively in freshwater. Engineer owner is fastidious. He completely rebuilt the boat about 10 years ago and has improved various systems. Boat has a perfect white Awlgrip finish. Boat was originally designed to race MORC and still is a brilliant performer rating 159 in PHRF. Interior is fitted out for cruising and is spotless and very nicely done. 

I would have bought the boat last year if it had been for sale. Basically, this boat is like new. Boat is used for double handed Wednesday night racing and not much else.


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a '72 model Morgan 27 and like it very much. My outboard bracket is an OMC model and allows me to lower the engine (longshaft) which keeps it in the water very well. In fact, with the bracket in the up position during a Noreaster in VA I only had the prop come out twice, then only after the boat had rolled quite a lot in the 70mph gusts.
All in all, it may not be the newest or fastest boat out there but for 4k with a great running outboard, new interior and a bunch of new sails I'm not one to complain. 
Regards
M Trimmier
Port Royal SC


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

If the price is right and is it well-equpped and in good condition...it might be a good boat...the Morgan 27 is a wider and heavier boat than the popular Catalina 27 (standard rig). It is also about 4 knots faster. It's not quite as safe from a stabilty point of view..buts it's numbers are close to the catalina in that dept. and also it motion comfort rating is close to the more narrow and easier motion of the Catalina. Sail calc pro or other performance comparison websites can help you compare important ratio numbers for things like speed,sail area, displacement, motion comfort,etc and I highly recommend taking a look at a site like this and comparing the boats you know already against one's you may not know about...these sites usually have stats on 1000's of boats...old and new. Good luck...Morgan is my first name so I might be biased but those boats have a good reputation for a reason...Charlie Morgan was probably no fool and made many decent boats that were usually very roomy and fairly fast....though not always the most stable.... though certainly no less so than most of that era.


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

I had a Cat27 and the amount of room below is very impressive compared to my Morgan. Different origins I suppose. Having said that I really liked the Catalina and only sold it because a good friend of mine wanted to get into sailing and have a place to stay while visiting on weekends.
We just got a Pearson 26' mostly for the outboard as mine gave up the ghost. Both the Catalina and Pearson have/had rusty keel nuts but that's never been a problem on my Morgan. Always wondered about that...
Regards
INFIDEL


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

At a listed 6.6 knots...the Morgan 27 beats the Cat 27 tall rig too..and has to be one of the fastest 27-foot mono-hulls ever built...sure you could find a new "spaceship pancake" built today that can top that speed by a half knot maybe more but how much wallet do you have.?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

souljour
The "hull speed" you are referring to is not a result of anything like good design but only a function of waterline length. Using the formula 1.34 x sq root of waterline length a barge with a 25' waterline is faster than both the Morgan 27 and my CS 27. The formula doesn't take into account the lengthening of the waterline length when heeled, the fact that many modern boats can sail at higher speed/length ratios than 1.34, and boats that are able to plane given the right conditions.
I'm not saying it is not a good boat, just that the "hull speed" published is a bit meaningless.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

souljour2000 said:


> At a listed 6.6 knots...the Morgan 27 beats the Cat 27 tall rig too..and has to be one of the fastest 27-foot mono-hulls ever built...sure you could find a new "spaceship pancake" built today that can top that speed by a half knot maybe more but how much wallet do you have.?


Guess you've never met an Express 27 (vintage mid 80's), santa cruz 27 (late 70's) et al. Look at a general PHRF rating list for boats in the same general size range for a very general performance comparative. Like another poster says, th. hull speed has nothing to do with much that tells us anything about a particular boat, other than how long the water line is. Sorry for piling on. 

That said, the M27 is a nice good old boat for sure.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

How many of you last 5 or so posters noticed the original post was from 2003! about 8 yrs or so ago!

Anyway, there is an M27 that cleans a lot of folks clocks in the 190-220 phrf bracket with the wind pipes up! hate that boat.....

Marty


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## kellyglick (Feb 1, 2011)

What can you tell me about a 1981 TMI Morgan 27? I need information on how to determine whether the rigging is properly tuned. I bought the boat used and don't have much information on it.


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## kellyglick (Feb 1, 2011)

What can you tell me about how to check the proper tuning of the stays on a 1981 TMI Morgan 27??


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

ok, hi guys, was wondering, lots of cons on the morgan for racing, what about for a guy that jsut wants to do some sailing weekends on the lake? located what i think is a great deal on a '72 morgan 27


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

The Morgan 27 will hold it's own as a racer. As stated previously, installation of some reinforcing knees under the shroud plates is a very common and simple repair to control the buckling issue...


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

thx, the one I bought had already had this installed, she's coming along nicely, replacing halyards late this afternoon, may ahve the sails up tonite or tomorrow am! woohoo!


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

Good luck trying to get that grin off of your face! :0)


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

With due respect to Jeff, you have to realize that he's never given an IOR era boat a fair review. Bear in mind that sail technology in the 1970's was primitive by today's standards, and yes, sailmakers sold rags for every possible wind contingency. It was pretty silly. For your purposes, if you plan to race, you need exactly no more or no less sails than any typical PHRF race boat and less if you're going the non-flying sails route. Talk to local racers and sailmakers and see what they carry or what's commonly used in your area. There are too many old IOR boats sailed (and well sailed at that!) in this area that prove Jeff wrong on a weekly basis.  Priorities are a good main, a good all purpose #1 (150-155'ish... 180's are long dead), a #3 (105'ish), and a .6 or .75 oz 'runner' spinnaker. That's 4 sails. Chances are you already have them. Keep the bottom clean, and don't let Jeff's old posts scare you away.


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

anyone have an idea on location of HIN on a 73 morgan 27?


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

Look inside the hull in the L/R corner IIRC..... L/R of the vessel I mean! :0)


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

Inside the hull? translate "L/R corner IIRC" pls...if I'm bein stoopid, jsut tell me....lol


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

anyone have hull number references as to the year most likely built? she's hull no 61.


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

can't say how much i appreciate your feedback, haven't been able to find a lot of info online about the M27's, seems most sites and groups are more geared to the OI morgans...Got the Jib halyard spliced onto a new cable this afternoon, so we ran up all 6 headsails in the inventory and found them all to be in primo condition, was quite a relief...lol crewing in races tomorrow, hope maybe we get the main halyard and cable replaced tomorrow and hoist the main for an inspection. According to the survey, its supposed to be in goo/xlnt condition, jsut hoping I agree with that assessment....have a good weekend, fair winds to you.


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

Hey Dude,
Internet speak: IIRC= "if I recall correctly"
If you are standing behind the boat looking at the L side of the stern the surface I speak of is on the inside of the stern just below the chainplate (thing the mast cable is hooked to) Get in the boat and open the lazarette (that cockpit seat that opens on the left side) and stick your face down in there and look to the rear; You should see the numbers cast into the hull though i do not know which serial numbers correlate to which model years. If you like you can get me at mrtrimmier at yeahhoo dot cohm.... I have some ads and factory papers a I can send you! :0)
Mike


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

@Morgan27, thx buddy, the 'iirc' is a new one on me...lol checked her out after race committee duty yesterday, found no stamps/engravings/markings of any kind inside the lazarette on the stern. Someone had mentioned to me that perhaps she had jsut been titled with an incorrect yr of manufacture, think that's possible true?


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## Morgan27 (Jan 16, 2009)

Oh BTW, my hull is 176 and she's a '72 model. What does your title say???


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## thatguynatl (May 22, 2011)

she was titled in NC as a 1973, but her hull no is 61, confirmed by the matching sail numbers....


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## rbloom (Nov 24, 2016)

Hello,

I am looking for a rudder for a Morgan M27.

If anyone knows where I can get one, please contact me.

Thanks,

Bob Bloom
Cape Cod - Mass
Cell: (248) 722-0262


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