# Looking at a Hunter 27 for first Sailboat



## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Looking for our first Sailboat. Sailing newbs, interested in something in the 26-29ft range. Will be using for daysailing, weekends and some longer trips. Mostly sailing in the San Juans and maybe some trips up around Vancouver Island, Desolation Sound etc. Figure its a boat to learn on so looking for something under 10k if possible. 

Have looked at several boats so far, Catalina 27s, Cal 27, Ericson 27, Santana 27, Oday27, an S2 8.0 and a few others as well. Been all over Craigslist and Yachtworld, etc. Choices are a bit slim here in the Northwest, or I should say boats that don't scare me anyway.

Have found a very clean Hunter 27, I believe a 77 or 78 model. It is actuall the first boat we looked at. Has an yanmar 8hp diesel engine, very nice looking sails, very clean inside and out. Anyway was just wondering peoples experience with the Hunter 27 of this vintage. Like I said we are new to sailing and this will be our first boat, so we don't really need anything fancy or capable of bluewater sailing. I figure at this price range we should just find the boat in the best possible shape that meets our needs. But at the same time we really don't want a dog to sail either.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

I might take a second look at the Hunter. I have experience with a sailboat that had an outboard, and it was a real pain. Lots of cavitation. I would never buy a small boat with an outboard again - ever.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I agree. And in the summer BC waters are very often windless, leading to many engine hours.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Yeah we found 2 very nice looking boats with outboards and think we might not be happy with that issue. On the one hand they are relatively inexpensive to replace or work on it seems, but it just seems they would be problematic in any kind of swell or chop when you might want them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sounds like you have a good strategy worked out. Be sure to have a professional third party look at the boat you are about to buy. Most will be prettied up for sale, so you want to know there aren't any hidden issues that could easily remove half or all of your investment (wet core, engine). Even if you just want to enjoy it, as is, you could have a hard time selling her yourself later. Welcome aboard. First boat is very exciting!


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

We had a dockmate with a Hunter 27. It was a great boat for him, and performed very well. He had it I think for at least 10 years before moving up to a Hunter 34. Personally, I think it would make a great first boat. Having the diesel will also be good for keeping the batteries up if you take trips, which it appears is part of your plans.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

*Lots of Choices*



aeronca said:


> Looking for our first Sailboat. Sailing newbs, interested in something in the 26-29ft range. Will be using for daysailing, weekends and some longer trips. Mostly sailing in the San Juans and maybe some trips up around Vancouver Island, Desolation Sound etc. Figure its a boat to learn on so looking for something under 10k if possible.
> 
> Have looked at several boats so far, Catalina 27s, Cal 27, Ericson 27, Santana 27, Oday27, an S2 8.0 and a few others as well. Been all over Craigslist and Yachtworld, etc. Choices are a bit slim here in the Northwest, or I should say boats that don't scare me anyway.
> 
> Have found a very clean Hunter 27, I believe a 77 or 78 model. It is actually the first boat we looked at. Has an yanmar 8hp diesel engine, very nice looking sails, very clean inside and out. Anyway was just wondering peoples experience with the Hunter 27 of this vintage. Like I said we are new to sailing and this will be our first boat, so we don't really need anything fancy or capable of bluewater sailing. I figure at this price range we should just find the boat in the best possible shape that meets our needs. But at the same time we really don't want a dog to sail either.


Given your list, as stated, you omit any acknowledgement that all these boat are _unequal_ in sailing ability and original design and construction.
Admittedly, after several decades, present condition is really really important, but, still, they were and are not equal choices.

Speed-wise, under sail, you would put the Hunter 27 and the O'Day well under the others. They also suffered from cut-rate engineering and construction back in the day. OTOH, the S-27 and the Cal 27 would be a lot faster. The Ericson has very good sailing manners, and a _far stronger_ hull-to-deck joint than any other on your list, altho the S2 might come close.
For pure sailing, the Cat 27 would be another good choice, albeit with an upgrade to the later-design rudder From Booth up in BC.

I would also agree with other posters that an outboard on a bracket is awful on a high transom on any boat that big. IIRC, only the E-27 and Sant 27 came with transom cut-outs for a stock outboard, and that makes a big difference. Yes, the old Cat 27 did come with a cutout version, but even back in the 80's it was not a good fit for the modern four-strokes coming into vogue.

BTW, you ought to put the 80's Beneteau First 26 on your list. A couple we know bought one for cruising and it's both fast and comfortable.

Happy shopping,
LB


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

olson34 said:


> BTW, you ought to put the 80's Beneteau First 26 on your list. A couple we know bought one for cruising and it's both fast and comfortable.
> 
> Happy shopping,
> LB


I would agree with this. In look at boats over the years, this is one of the boats that appealed to me.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Oh! I almost forgot about the Pacific Seacraft 24. If I were a single man and did not want for a larger boat, this would be at the top of my list. This has got to be one of the biggest little boats on the market. And the quality seems to be really high.


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## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

Hello, google, offshore in hunter 27; good news. I used to be against hunters till I had 1979 H27 next to me in slip and saw 2 other hunters, 1978.
....Take a look at below. He is surveyor. Especially look at Catalina 27. 
BoatUS.com: Boat Reviews by Jack Hornor, N.A.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Olson34 is spot on - what you need to consider is sailing and build quality. The Hunter 27 from that era is low in both. 

Look at a Santana 525 - they have a big active fleet in BC and your area. Well made 25 footer which can handle heavy air.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

olson34 said:


> Given your list, as stated, you omit any acknowledgement that all these boat are _unequal_ in sailing ability and original design and construction.
> Admittedly, after several decades, present condition is really really important, but, still, they were and are not equal choices.
> 
> Speed-wise, under sail, you would put the Hunter 27 and the O'Day well under the others. They also suffered from cut-rate engineering and construction back in the day. OTOH, the S-27 and the Cal 27 would be a lot faster. The Ericson has very good sailing manners, and a _far stronger_ hull-to-deck joint than any other on your list, altho the S2 might come close.
> ...


Well being very new to sailing we really have no ideal about which boat is better than another. I have been trying to educate myself by reading what I can online, (here and elsewhere)and posting this message .

It appears to me that the Ericson 27 and Cal 27 would be the best bets for sure. However, one is a bit rough and one has an outboard. Although the owner of the Ericson did say it was not a great light air sailor.

The Catalina 27 (which I would have thought would not have been a lot different, quality wise from the the Hunter) had to my eyes a rather lot of rot in the bulkheads.

The Santana looked neat to me but again needed a bit of work and had an outboard. The Oday27 had a few things that worried me as well.

The Hunter 27 is very clean, I mean clean everywhere, no signs of leaks (yeah I know there will be some but every boat I have looked at had signs of water damage to bulkheads and the Hunters bulkheads look like new.) the motor was clean, behind the storage cabinets and under settee was clean, the deck seems solid, the sails are like new, has a good dodger, bottom is recent etc, etc.

So , yeah it seems from what I can learn there are better boats than Hunter 27s, but this seems a nice example in our price range so I would like to know what is bad about a Hunter 27,(and yes I know a Pacific Seacraft would be much nicer but I can't find one for under 10k  ) Just want to know how bad is a Hunter 27, handling, is it really built so much worse or worse sailing than a Catalina 27 or S2 etc.

So anyway good and bad about a Hunter 27? Is the hull really made of Paper Mache, and do angels lose there wings everytime someone buys one etc. Or are they not bad considering the intended useage and price range? 
I'm not stuck on this boat its just seems like its in good shape and we have seen some in horrible shape. (Although we found a C&C27 that I hear is a much nicer class of boat, but I think its more than a bit above our price range). Again thanks for all the replies.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

tomperanteau said:


> Oh! I almost forgot about the Pacific Seacraft 24. If I were a single man and did not want for a larger boat, this would be at the top of my list. This has got to be one of the biggest little boats on the market. And the quality seems to be really high.


Yeah like I was saying above they are very nice looking. Me and my future boat partner were walking the dock with his daughter and we found 2 within 3 slips of each other and we all three said what kind is that lets look for one of those. Then we saw the prices they bring, but yeah at least to my untrained eye they look like a beautiful boat.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think the Cherubini designed Hunters were some of their best as far as design anyway. As far as sailing speed, the difference between the boats mentioned would not be that great.

Build quality? From what I have heard better than some of the more recent Hunters.

HUNTER 27 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Thanks Brian, was just over in Victoria a few days ago, I'm on San Juan, I fly charter flights into Victoria every week of so. Or Sidney I should say.
Yeah I read conflicting things on the hunters, some say there the worst of the worst, some say not so bad, some say better than Catalinas, some say the Cheribuni designed ones were good sailing boats and better built than later models, some say not.
The opinions from around here that I get are they are alright but no one has experience with this particular type (27). So I thought I might try on here as there certainly seems to be an abundance of knowledge on Sailnet. 
Thanks
What is that boat in your post? Is that yours, looks nice.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Canadian Sailcraft 27 - another good choice and there are a few around as well.

Maybe a bit over your budget though.

1980 Canadian Sailcraft CS 27 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

CS 27 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

I believe that Brian sails a CS 27, a fast Ray Wall design. Well built and good sailing rep. and with a cruising interior.
Just not too many around our side of the continent.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Probably not too many in Washington but they can be found in many marinas near Victoria.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Very nice looking boat, went and looked up a few on Yachtworld. 2 of them in BC here, one for 16k and one for 18k, hmm.... quit telling me about these nice boats. I have to keep repeating to myself,quit looking at boats over my budget


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

While they are over your budget, 2 things to keep in mind.

One, they sell for less than asking. Maybe 20% less at a guess. 

Two, the less you spend on a boat, the more upgrades it may need, for reliability, safety, and convenience. Things like 30 year old rigging, old wiring that might need replacing or upgrading. Not to mention things like soft decks and other problems.


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## delite (Nov 2, 2009)

We have a 1984 Catalina 27 (dinette model with aft galley) with a 9.9 Yamaha outboard on it and use it exactly as the OP plans. My biggest complaint would be insufficient power to make it through some of the rapids at tide change (Vancouver second narrows for example). The Yamaha engine has been very reliable as has the boat with no significant problems and minimal annual maintenance costs. The boat handles well and is a good boat to learn on and is easy to single hand. Likely to have to replace standing rigging soon and just did running rigging this spring for under $400.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> While they are over your budget, 2 things to keep in mind.
> 
> One, they sell for less than asking. Maybe 20% less at a guess.
> 
> Two, the less you spend on a boat, the more upgrades it may need, for reliability, safety, and convenience. Things like 30 year old rigging, old wiring that might need replacing or upgrading. Not to mention things like soft decks and other problems.


Yeah, I'm already trying to figure such things into the equation, which is what keeps bringing me back to the Hunter. The asking price is 9900. and in this price range it looks to need the least stuff to make it ready to go. Now this is just with seeing it with my not so trained eye. I keep thinking there must be some issue with it that I'm not seeing. (we will have it looked at/surveyed by someone).

So thats why this boat is interesting to us. We have looked at quit a few boats so far and what we see in general is once below 9-10k the boats are pretty rough and by the time you repair/replace things your up into the price range of a nicer boat. Of course I figure any boat you buy will require some additional money put into it. So while looking at one of those CS27s seems awful tempting, I'm thinking even at maybe being able to get one at a bit less than asking price, we will still put a bit more into it.

I have looked at a C&C 27 here where the asking price is another 50% above the hunter and while the boat maybe 50% more boat, it is in much rougher shape/has an Atomic 4, needs this and that, etc etc. So now we are significantly over our budget. And yes I realize that with a budget this low the pickings are slim, hence asking about a hunter


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*'80 H27 Owner*

I own a 1980 H27 and Have had it for 5 years, and it's been a great boat. I sail on the Chesapeake, and use the boat regularly for day sails, overnights, and occasionally race it on Wednesday nights. The Cherubini designed Hunters are solid boats, sail as well as their peers (Catalina, ODay, Ericson, etc). Based on your intended usage, and that it's your first boat, it would serve you well. It is not a blue water cruiser, nor is it racy, but a good all around classic plastic, coastal cruiser. 
As you look at boats in this price range and vintage, I think condition becomes possibly the most important variable. I'd buy an older, well maintained boat, over a newer, neglected one any day. In general, boats don't hold up well to neglect. Its a 30 yr old boat, there will be issues with it. Unless you want to spend your free time rebuilding a boat, find one that has been well maintained, upgraded, and used regularly. You will find Hunter, Catalina, Ericson, Beneteau's from that era all reasonably similar. What sets them apart is how well they are maintained. 
Get it surveyed unless you are willing to gamble on a large repair bill later (yes its expensive but can save you money down the road), make sure the major/expensive things are sound (hull, deck, rigging, motor). The Yanmar Diesel mentioned is much better than the Renault motor that many came with. 
The H27 would be worthy of consideration if it checks out on inspection. I have also sailed, and owned a Catalina 27 and found it very similar in its sailing manners, speed, feel, and build. They are both decent boats, very common, and have a good resale market when you are ready to get a bigger one.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Hunter from a design/build perspective. Condition is really the issue. And you like the boat.

Rather than spend money on a survey first, do a pre-survey to confirm condition.
Buy or borrow a good moisture meter - a lot less expensive than a survey. 
Understanding the Moisture Meter / Electrophysics CT-33 Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
In addition to helping before purchase it is handy to have during ownership for regular checks.

Have you looked at this link? http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/48177-boat-inspection-trip-tips.html

Other questions - How old is the rigging? Has the boat been upgraded over the years or is it close to original as far as electronics and other items? A boat that is kept up to date by the owner may be one where things are looked after better than one that is clean but original. Engine maintenance log and receipts are other items to ask about.

Hope this helps.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Brucerobs2 said:


> I own a 1980 H27 and Have had it for 5 years, and it's been a great boat. I sail on the Chesapeake, and use the boat regularly for day sails, overnights, and occasionally race it on Wednesday nights. The Cherubini designed Hunters are solid boats, sail as well as their peers (Catalina, ODay, Ericson, etc). Based on your intended usage, and that it's your first boat, it would serve you well. It is not a blue water cruiser, nor is it racy, but a good all around classic plastic, coastal cruiser.
> As you look at boats in this price range and vintage, I think condition becomes possibly the most important variable. I'd buy an older, well maintained boat, over a newer, neglected one any day. In general, boats don't hold up well to neglect. Its a 30 yr old boat, there will be issues with it. Unless you want to spend your free time rebuilding a boat, find one that has been well maintained, upgraded, and used regularly. You will find Hunter, Catalina, Ericson, Beneteau's from that era all reasonably similar. What sets them apart is how well they are maintained.
> Get it surveyed unless you are willing to gamble on a large repair bill later (yes its expensive but can save you money down the road), make sure the major/expensive things are sound (hull, deck, rigging, motor). The Yanmar Diesel mentioned is much better than the Renault motor that many came with.
> The H27 would be worthy of consideration if it checks out on inspection. I have also sailed, and owned a Catalina 27 and found it very similar in its sailing manners, speed, feel, and build. They are both decent boats, very common, and have a good resale market when you are ready to get a bigger one.


Thanks Brucerobs, I was hoping someone with a Hunter 27 would respond, although like airplanes we all love the one we own  , but I'm very happy to hear your comments, I had wondered how they compared to Catalina 27s. Anything specific to check for in the Hunter? It has the small Yanmar and some have said it is a bit noisy. I think its an 8hp is that a bit underpowered? I am getting a complete spec sheet so that may give me some more insight into things. Thanks much for the reply.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

My Yanmar is 8hp as well, YSE8. Not the best engine for pushing into a choppy sea but adequate for normal use. Sailboats had smaller engines 30 years ago than they do now.
All small diesels are fairly noisy - all the more reason to sail. If there is no sound absorbent lining to the engine compartment it can be added.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the Hunter from a design/build perspective. Condition is really the issue. And you like the boat.
> 
> Rather than spend money on a survey first, do a pre-survey to confirm condition.
> Buy or borrow a good moisture meter - a lot less expensive than a survey.
> ...


Yes very much so. I have read the boat inspection tips, as well as some about using or not using a moisture meter. Seems like it would be worth it to me.
Basically we have been in the tire kicking stage, looking at what is out there in our price range to see what size we might like and just what boats in this end of the market look like. We are now hoping to narrow down the search to 2-4 boats and take a closer look to see if we think its worth going to survey. 
I now think I can at least spot the extremes of condition some of these boats are in, and I am aware that even nice looking boats can have major problems. But just in the last 2 weeks it seems I can spot sort of a trend. If I spot an interesting boat at a very appealing price I almost immediately think there must be something wrong with it , because of some of these deals we have seen, where it sounded very interesting, we went and looked and there are things that are just obvious even to me,(rotted bulkheads in and around chainplates, very rusted looking keel bolts, etc) So now I am very skeptical of boats that sound like a good deal. Part of the problem is of course living here on the island and getting over to the mainland is not as easy as if I were living in Seattle. So we go to quite the effort to line up several boats to look at each time we get off island, and unfortunately those we have made the most effort and time to get too have been duds.
Anyway I do appreciate all the advice it is a lot of help.
Thanks again, Brian, Olson34, Brucerobs, delite


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Good/Bad*

As you have seen, in the price range you are looking, there are many more bad boats than good. You found a promising one in this Hunter27, so keep looking so you have a comparison. 
Things to look out for on the H27 include :
rotten compression post at base of mast. If it has it, there will be a very noticeable depression around the mast step, and lots of cracking. Its repairable, but i'd Keep looking, if you see it.
Leaks around deck hardware, mast, and soft spots on deck, particularly where the stays and shrouds attach. The rigging does not have use chain plates, which I don't particularly like, but it's fine worked for 30+ Yrs.
Check the rudder for delam of outer skin. Can indicate interior damage. Its easily repairable but critical.
Check keel bolts, and the stringers for evidence of hard groundings, improper blocking.
Motor: The one cylinder diesel motors are definitely more clunky and loud, but I have soundproofing around mine (repowered by PO with Yanmar 1gm10) and it's manageable. The 2cylinder's are smoother/quieter but you'll be hard pressed to find on on a 27 footer. 10 hp is adequate to hit 6k in flat water, slower in the chop. Still preferable to an Outboard. They are very durable if maintained.
So, you can find good boats in this price range, but as you have seen, it'll take time and you'll see a lot of crappy boats. I looked at tons of Catalinas, C&C's, Hunters, bene's, etc. Good luck in the hunt, take your time, and have fun. The right boat will find you.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

Thanks Brucerobs, thats just the kind of info I'm looking for. I have also found something interesting over on Vancouver Island, any one familiar with whats involved in buying a Canadian boat. Its used and Canadian made. Maybe I should start new thread. (I ll search first for previous posts I guess)
Thanks


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

What boat on Vancouver Island?

No duty but local taxes would apply.


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## aeronca (May 17, 2011)

There is a CS 27 that sounds to good to be true, may go check it out. I sent you a PM.


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