# What's your annual maintenance budget?



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I own a C27. And it always needs work. Now there's the "don't-have-to-do"s and the "have-to-do"s - so it's hard to nail down a real figure on what it takes to "maintain" my boat.

Then there's the "threshold" of what one considers "seaworthy". I typically day and weekend sail in this boat...on a lake...so that bar is pretty low for me. Were I taking her off-shore, I'd dump a lot more money into her.

As it is, I'd say I spend around $800/year on simply maintaining her.

But here's the deal... I'm planning on buying a larger boat in the next year or two (as I've been saying for the last year or so). And I'm trying to look at the various cost factors.

So, those of you who own a 37'-40' pimp-mobile...how much do you throw down annually in mtx costs?

I'm sure it will differ from cold to warm climates...salt to fresh...but this just might be an interesting thread.

Come on...get 'em out.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

1980, 34 Irwin Citation - if I don't put a grand in her a year, I get off really lucky. Two batteries today were $300.00

A few electronics were $350

Two little SS thingys today were $60 (If that's too technical a term for you Smack - just say so)

Like I said, about a grand a year. (plus storage, plus launch and un-launch, plus club dues . . .)

Rik (broke and loving it )


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

We've tracked every penny that we've spent on our boats starting in 1987. We used Quicken and have migrated to Moneydance.

When you talk maintenance, I assume that you are not including slip fees ($1800/yr), winter storage ($957), and insurance ($632). To that end, this year we've spent $2300 (including 50% deposit on a new mainsail - $1300). Last year we spent $5030 including a new genoa ($1400 - 50% paid in 2010) and lifelines ($778). Since the sails & lifelines are capital expenditures and not recurring, you may wish to deduct the cost as a spike. 

My maintenance costs may or may not be higher than others, I have high standards. It will be interesting to see what others report (if they're honest).


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

This is our third year with our Omega 36 sloop.

The first year was pretty cheap. (Maybe because I didn't know)

Last year was all new running rigging, bottom paint and a cylinder head. ($5K ish)

This year new radio and GPS (not a have to have thing but the old GPS quit working and I wanted a DSC radio with remote mic option)

It's looking like I need batteries now as well.


I used to own an airplane. It took 3-4 years to get it where I was happy with it so it was many thousand a year for a few years.

I was bragging on the boat last year about how it had been pretty cheap to maintain --- right after that I had to do the cylinder head. :laugher 

If nothing breaks this year shouldn't be so bad....have a few upgrades I want to do if things work out.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

many many thousands. Defender alone should be sending me free first class tickets somewhere nice. But instead they are being mean to me on the phone - which likely means other customers must spend even more, right?


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> I used to own an airplane. It took 3-4 years to get it where I was happy with it so it was many thousand a year for a few years.


Man, I hope that's our story. I keep telling myself that we're at the end of the list and then something pops up (standing rigging is 27 yrs old....). But the good news is that we're behind the spend curve so far this year.

BTW - These numbers are for maintenance that I perform. I do all my own work, so the cost would be much higher if I had someone

1. sand & paint the bottom
2. varnish the interior
3. perform routine engine maintenance
4. splice lines
5. wax the hull
6. replace the centerboard pendant & fix the cable housing
7. make cushions, sailcovers, etc
8. zero the compass

etc etc etc ... the list is endless :laugher


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Sabre...who did you wind up getting your sail from. I just got our first sail in with our new Quantum full batten main. They did a great job on it.

Dave


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

cost is proportional to length squared. Use is inversly proportional to length.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> I'm planning on buying a larger boat in the next year or two (as I've been saying for the last year or so). And I'm trying to look at the various cost factors.


Larger boat on Lake Travis or on the coast?

For my Catalina 27 on Travis I spent about $700 a year plus a few hundred for insurance. Pacific Seacraft 34 on the coast I am spending about $5000 a year plus $2000 for insurance.

Then again I am upgrading this for cruising, so it is not a fair comparison. Most of what I have spent money on is really more upgrades than maintenance.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

For our Islander Freeport 36 we've spent about $3,200.00 so far this year, but this includes a new bottom paint job and PSS. I'm guessing our end of year basic maintenance will be under $1,000.00 (including bottom cleaning), not including slip fees, insurance, and property taxes.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> Now there's the "don't-have-to-do"s and the "have-to-do"s - so it's hard to nail down a real figure on what it takes to "maintain" my boat.


Smack, you answered your own question--whatever it takes to maintain the boat. Like one of the other posters, I tend to be a bit picky.

Routine maintenance, i.e. engine oil changes, etc. aren't too much. However, in the 18 months since we bought the boat, we:

replaced the furling system.
replaced all of the standing rigging.
replaced the autohelm.
bought a new dinghy.
bought a new 4 stroke outboard.
Trust me, it adds up. On the upside, we won't be doing that every year. At the same time, it's a boat. There is always something.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Fulltime living aboard & cruising, we budget $5K-$6K per year including haulout & bottom paint every 2 years and dinghy/outboard maint. Some years we don't spend it all; Whatever's leftover from true maintenance goes into upgrades.

We do our own paint, teak, electrical, wood, and interior canvas, hire most electronics work and, in the Chesapeake, a diver every 4-6 weeks in season to scrub off the slime. In prettier waters we do it ourselves.

Edit: boat is 30 yrs old and 33 ft


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

If you consider that most of the gear on your boat has a 10 to 20 year lifespan on average, and you're keeping everything up in top shape, you may be spending 5 to 10% of the new replacement cost of your boat per year.

I would guess that I have probably been spending on the order of $10,000 per year on my 34 footer. Of course some of that is "upgrades" rather than maintenance, and I have been prepping my boat for serious offshore sailing, but then winter storage in my area for a boat my size runs around $2000 to $2500...

BOAT = break out another thousand!


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

The annual budget for our 2006 36' Beneteau on Lake Travis:

$3,780 Boat slip
$1,200 Haul and VC-17 bottom paint
$900 Insurance
$1,200 Everything else (we do our own engine maintenance)

$7,080 Total


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

sailak said:


> I used to own an airplane. It took 3-4 years to get it where I was happy with it so it was many thousand a year for a few years.
> .


I own a single engine, 4 seat airplane and our boat now. The expenses on my plane have been less (and far more predictable) than the boat the past couple of years if I include storage. The boat also requires a lot more in sweat equity, since FAA regulations strictly limit what maintenance an owner can do on his airplane without supervision by a certificated mechanic.

Last year, total expenses for the boat was $10k, about half of which is slip fee's and the taxes for moving to MD. We also did several expensive upgrades before we left Deltaville, since they would have been about 20-25% more where we are now. This year should be much, much less in the non storage category.

I could easily spend $25k more fixing things and installing common systems for cruising (Radar, Autopilot, wind generator, solar panels, replacing standing rigging, etc, etc)


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I've spent so much money on upgrades, that I have no idea what the simple "upkeep" costs were for the first year. I don't consider a slip "maintenance", but I do consider haul out and storage on the hard, maintenance.

I'll take a stab at it:

New main: $960
DC electrical overhaul: $200 (fuse block, assorted switches and bits)
Outboard maintenance: $100 (impeller, oil, filter, fuel pickup filter, paint)
Deck hardware re-bedding: $30.00 (3M products, fasteners)
New running rigging: $292 (sheets, halyards, mainsheet block)
New bilge pump & hose: $110
Assorted shackles and hardware: $75.00
___________________________________
Total: $1767

That was just to make my 42 year old boat safe and sailable after purchase. I'm a few thousand more into it for the spinnaker upgrade, the mast upgrades and various other ****e. Luckily, I was gifted some Barlow 23-2 winches, jib cars and someone is shipping me a decent 150% genoa for the cost of shipping. People have been very gracious in helping me out and I've done my best to pay it forward.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

RainDog said:


> Larger boat on Lake Travis or on the coast?
> 
> For my Catalina 27 on Travis I spent about $700 a year plus a few hundred for insurance. Pacific Seacraft 34 on the coast I am spending about $5000 a year plus $2000 for insurance.
> 
> Then again I am upgrading this for cruising, so it is not a fair comparison. Most of what I have spent money on is really more upgrades than maintenance.


For the coast. I'm following in your wake dude. Good to see you around Rain.

BTW, what marina are you in down south? I'll be leaving out of Watergate for a race coming up on the 4th.

Good answers in here fellas. Keep 'em coming.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I haven't laid it out in a spreadsheet, but scanning the numbers it appears that the costs are remarkably similar for the 34'-ish range. About $5000. 

chef - I don't want to go off on a tangent but I'll answer your question regarding sails. The genoa came new from Bacons so that means that it's an offshore construction like Doyle, Quantum, Neil Pryde, etc. We'd purchased a used North NorLam sail the previous fall that delaminated and molded-out. So at my request, they applied the purchase price to a new sail. VERY good customer service. We went in a new direction for the main. It's coming from Evolution in Easton, MD. It's locally built by sail fanatics. Should be on the boat by Wednesday.


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

I TRY and not think about it, just whatever it takes, I KNOW the wife doesn't want to think about it. Ya gotta pay to play!


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Should I include the $6700 "use tax" the state took when I bought the boat last year?


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Hi Smack,

the answer to your question is how long is a piece of string!. A lot depends on the age and state of the boat / equipment. My last yacht was a bit bigger than what your looking at (45ft) and was around 30 years old. This was upgrading the yacht for specific coastal trips (300NM trip in 2007 and 800 NM trip in 2009) to areas fairly exposed with little support if things go wrong. These number are Oz $ which nowdays is pretty similar to US$.

These numbers look pretty similiar to my latest yacht (34ft), apart from the new engine in the new yacht which blew a whole in the budget.  This is also keeping the boats at a pretty high standard, ie a lot of the additions went into safety gear that came accross to the new yacht. I also do the majority of maintenance / work myself, the maintenance and haulout costs would be a fair bit higher if you had to pay for labour.

Ilenart

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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Here is my anticipated budget for my 2008 Benetea 343. I try and use the boat for 100-150 engine hours a year.

Boat note - $9000 a year
"Regulatory" Fes (tags, customs decals, permits) - $500 a year
Routine haulout & bottom job (18-24 months) - $1500
Fuel - $300 a year (we motorsail to the Bahamas)
Major haulout service (every 5 years) - $4000
New running rigging (every 3 years) - $800
"The Head" (joker vales, service kits, bad pumps, anti odor solvents) - $200 a year
Professional Compound/Wax (every other year) - $500
Wash/wax (self - every month) - $100
Upgrades (Radar, AIS, inverters, etc) - $2000 a year
Insurance - $2000 a year
Boat slip - $0 (kept behind my house)
Sail care/repair - $600-800 every 2 years
Engine preventative maintenance - $300 a year (oil changes, impellers, etc)
Periodic Engine Deep Maintenance - $1000 (every 3 years)
"Breakage" - Anywhere from $500 to $1000 a year
New sails - $5000 every 5 years
New standing rigging - $8000 every 10 years

If I were to "annualize" boat ownership, it would be around $20,000 a year. *WELL* worth the cost for the memories and fun we have on the boat. We do 1-2 long cruises (1 week each), 3 major regattas, 5 summer beercans, and about 3-4 weekends aboard. If were to charter a boat for that level of usage, it would well exceed $20k a year. I suspect what helps me out is that I dont pay for moorage/dockage at all.

*edit* Forgot opportunity cost of our down payment. We put $25,000 down. At today's Risk Free Rate of Returns (1%)...thats another $250-$300 a year in "expense".


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

My "budget" is more like NightOwl, I was just afraid to mention it, Crikey a week in Avalon is, well you don't really want to know.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Smack, the answer is really about how much work you can do yourself. A new-to-you boat will have more costs initially as you're straightening things out/upgrading/replacing... figure at a minimum, 10-20% of the cost of the boat. Maintenance not including things like sails or major work, around 8 - 10% of the cost of your boat, more for larger boats or boats that are being raced competitively.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

JiffyLube said:


> For our Islander Freeport 36 we've spent about $3,200.00 so far this year, but this includes a new bottom paint job and PSS. I'm guessing our end of year basic maintenance will be under $1,000.00 (including bottom cleaning), not including slip fees, insurance, and property taxes.


What is the cost for property tax? 
One thing nice about Hawaii- no property tax, no tax when buying a used boat and $20 per year boat registration fee.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

puddinlegs said:


> Smack, the answer is really about how much work you can do yourself. A new-to-you boat will have more costs initially as you're straightening things out/upgrading/replacing... figure at a minimum, 10-20% of the cost of the boat. Maintenance not including things like sails or major work, around 8 - 10% of the cost of your boat, more for larger boats or boats that are being raced competitively.


Puddinlegs makes a great point.
I just got a good old boat and I'm putting every cent I can scrape up into her.
1. cost 2800.00
2. registration 240.00
3. outboard bracket and mounting 150.00
4. new sheets and halyards 200.00
5. Hard Dingy 250.00
6. New VHF 150.00
7. Boat slip 240.00 a month + 15 extra for electric if I want it.

next is Sea cocks and maybe thru hulls replaced I have to dive on them to see.

Still have to add

New head
rebuild Volvo Penta motor
rewire entire boat add batteries and solar panels.
bottom paint, Varnish topside, and deck paint
New rigging
Outboard
ETC ETC ETC.......

There is something to be said about getting a boat into the shape you want it. I want a boat capable of the open sea. I don't need fancy electronics as much as good solar panels and battery bank. Stowage is more important then radar or AIS to me. 
Another thing is where you get your things at. Search around for deals because they are out there.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You can't make me look this up. I won't do it.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> You can't make me look this up. I won't do it.


Ya That's probably the best thing!

Smack look what you've done. Now everyone is gonna see how much t really costs to get out there. We haven't even talked about food,fuel,insurance,etc... for trips.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Personally I don't agree with 5-10% of the cost of the boat for budgetary estimates. Slip fees don't take into account boat purchase price, not does bottom painting, new GPS, etc. Perhaps for a new boat....definitely not for a more 'mature' model!

Anyway, My typical annual bill is around $6.5K. About $1500 per year is 'basic' maintenance. However, I maintain multiple "buckets" to build a budget:

1) Short-term: Regular month-to-month maintenance. (I include slip fees and power. in this budget - around $5K total) 
2) Medium-term: Bottom painting, insurance, taxes - 1-3 year costs. (around $1.5k)
3) Oh sh*t fund: This is to cover longer-term expenses and problems which will hit you every few years. For example standing rigging can last 5-10 years. As catamount said, most of the electronics, sails etc has a ~10 year lifespan. So I tuck away around $750 a year in case...and it is darned tempting to dip into it...maybe when I have, say, a 4K float I'll do that.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

When I owned the C-27, not counting the slip rent and winter storage fee, the cost was next to nothing. I seriously doubt that I spent more than $50 a month and that was for fuel. The insurance was just $105 a year, and I only had to paint the bottom one time during the entire 5 years I owned the boat. The only relevant expense I could find was the replacement of the fore and back stays, which totaled out to $600 to have them replaced.

When the Morgan 33 O.I. is out of the boat yard and back home at the marina I'll be applying topside paint--new non-skid and cockpit paint. Might get up to $300 for this, but that should be about it for the year unless I decide to go with the new radar system. The Radar, however, would not be a maintenance expense--just a new, safety feature.

Cheers,

Gary


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> You can't make me look this up. I won't do it.


Minne - you open that spreadsheet this instant mister.

paul - I really like the OSF (#3 on your list). I now have a good title for that line item in my own budget.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Dang, I was having a pretty good morning until I saw this thread. Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to actually "know" how much the boat is costing you each year? 
It usually takes whatever the IRS leaves me, that's as close as I can come to an actual dollar amount.

I've always liked this quote in regard to boat costs, not sure who said it, "I've spent most of my money on women and boats, the rest I've just wasted".


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Waltthesalt said:


> cost is proportional to length squared. Use is inversly proportional to length.


The use you give a boat has nothing to length unless you mean to put it in and out of the marina . But when I sail I don't return home for a long time so the problem does not equate to all and there are certainly a lot of guys like me. However if you sail away for weeks or months you need a boat with some autonomy and there it goes your theory regarding size.

I would purpose another one: Cost of maintenance is proportional to length, age and your will to improve the boat and the money you have.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

jrd22 said:


> .. Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to actually "know" how much the boat is costing you each year?
> ...


I thought exactly the same. Once I had made the counts and the conclusion was that is was cheaper to charter a brand new boat for more than a month each year. No, I don't plan to charter boats for long but I will never make those counts again. They are quite depressing

Regards

Paulo


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

PCP said:


> I thought exactly the same. Once I had made the counts and the conclusion was that is was cheaper to charter a brand new boat for more than a month each year. No, I don't plan to charter boats for long but I will never make those counts again. They are quite depressing
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Yeah, now I'm depressed too.

A dockmate once told me to expect 15% of purchase price every year for operting expense. We could debate the number, but prehaps that's a healthy way to view it.

I do know that if I didn't deeply enjoy and was not compitent with a lot of DIY I would sweat it more. I haven't used a yard or mechanic in 25 years of sailing, though as I age that will change, I'm sure. There is a difference between knowing how and having the joints to do it!

I also know that I have owned 3 boats--all in goo shape when I bought them--and I have sold them for more than I paid, so depriciation, at least, is nil.

As others have said, sailling is a pricless investment in mental health and in my case, the health of my mariage.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

pdqaltair said:


> Yeah, now I'm depressed too.
> 
> A dockmate once told me to expect 15% of purchase price every year for operting expense. We could debate the number, but prehaps that's a healthy way to view it.
> 
> ...


Well, you make me fell a lot better

I never have spent 15% of the purchase price in maintenance for year and that includes an expensive marina, insurance and upgrading the boat. But you pay less with a new boat. Probably that number is valid with an used boat with some years.

Regarding working on the boat, I used to do that with my first boat and I love it. But I could not have done that with my last boat. that way I could not have afford it.

I earn more money than a mechanic and if I went to work on my boat I could not have paid it

I guess that on the next one I will have no need to work so much and I will have time to take care of it

Regards

Paulo


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

casey1999 said:


> What is the cost for property tax?
> One thing nice about Hawaii- no property tax, no tax when buying a used boat and $20 per year boat registration fee.


Last year we paid $279.00, and it's been going down every year.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

I'm like some other posters, I know what I have spent but I can't really seperate maintenance from upgrade. When a radar gos tits-up is the replacement upgrade or maintenance?

But just to put a number on it, I have spent NZ$28k on my boat in 3.5 years, mostly upgrades.

As a friend once said of his fishing gear - my continuing nightmare is that when I die my wife sells stuff off the boat for what I told her I paid for it. Damn, someone's in for a serious bargain.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Omatako said:


> When a radar gos tits-up is the replacement upgrade or maintenance?


In Accountant speak (yep that's my background  ) maintenance is when you repair something, where an upgrade is when you replace the whole unit. Some people may argue that if you replace something "like for like" you can call it a repair, however this is mostly a tax driven arguement. For my purposes when I changing electronics most of the gear is smaller, more powerful, etc so I would call replacing a radar an upgrade.

To break up maintenance between small routine stuff, which happens every year with the big stuff, which happens occassionally, I track routine maintenance separately from major mainteance. Major maintenance items I have hit includes replacing exhaust manifold, repairing a water pump, hydraulic steering repairs, etc.

Ilenart


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Minne - you open that spreadsheet this instant mister........


Smack, I don't even keep one. This information is so insidious that I keep it a secret from myself too.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

To me, maintenance means keeping the boat in a seaworthy condition suitable for it's intended use. Replacing blown out sails with new ones, replacing worn out halyards or sheets with new ones, replacing a irreparable broken radar set with a new one, renewing your bottom paint, or the replacement of your standing rigging after it's run it's life, all qualify as maintenance. It is all these things, _averaged over time,_ that come out annually to the 5% to 15% of the new replacement cost of your boat, _not_ the purchase price of your boat (unless you purchased your boat new).

Upgrading, to me, means replacing perfectly serviceable items with new ones, or adding additional equipment, in order to get new functionality that you did not previously enjoy.

Finally, we have to separate out operating costs, like slip fees, insurance, interest on the boat loan, fuel, etc.... which are not really part of "maintenance." These costs are _in addition_ to the 5% to 15% per-year figure noted above.

I suspect most of us would rather not think about the 20-year refit costs (because they are huge!) and the amortization of those, maybe because we don't expect to own our boats that long, but they are real....


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## Rick486 (Sep 14, 2010)

It's not so much the money as it is sitting here tied up in my slip in 50 degree weather with a chilly northeast breeze. And the long range weather forecasts show nothing better as far as the eye can see. Memorial Day looks like a complete washout once again. This is the part of yacht ownership that really, really sucks.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

As an early poster said, "how long is a piece of string?"

Value of my time. Well, skilled labor goes $75/hr which would require me to earn ~ $110/hr before taxes. I do OK, but not that OK. But the argument also presents logical fallacy, assuming I take time off to do the work, and would rather watch TV or read the paper than tinker' I'm a very skilled tinker. It's rewarding to learning something new and I'm an engineer by trade.

20 year re-fit. I don't see that. My last boat I owned for 18 years, through to it's 30th birthday. The 20 year refit items simply happened along the way, including re-power, new power systems, Awlgrip, and rigging. Letting them build-up is a choice.

50% of upgrades are to suit new owner's tastes.

____________________________


How much does a car cost. The gov. says $0.51/mile. That would cover a Hummer. Much depends on the driver's choices.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

20-year refit -- I just used that time line based on the typical lifespan of standing rigging. Of course one can spread the projects out over time, but the point is that over the long term all of those projects -- even the re-power, etc... -- should be considered part of maintenance.


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## auaus (Oct 6, 2009)

RainDog said:


> Larger boat on Lake Travis or on the coast?
> 
> For my Catalina 27 on Travis I spent about $700 a year plus a few hundred for insurance. Pacific Seacraft 34 on the coast I am spending about $5000 a year plus $2000 for insurance.
> 
> Then again I am upgrading this for cruising, so it is not a fair comparison. Most of what I have spent money on is really more upgrades than maintenance.


What an incredible coincidence!

I have 27' Helms on Lake Murray, SC and
34' Creekmore in Charleston, SC which I upgrading/restoring for cruising.
Smaller one costs me $150/mo for the slip
plus minor repairs.
On the bigger one I spent last year $12k on upgrades + $400/mo for the slip+$700 plus insurance + 700 hours of hard labor.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

I can not imagine the annual maintenance with a 37 to 40ft considering how expensive just my 22ft costs. I had it just over one year and bought it in great condition. So far I had spent over $1000 and after a couple days ago, add another $650 in for a new rudder soon. Not to mention I will need a haul out soon to do a few things. It adds up quick and this is what I think about which makes me say I just want to stay with my 22ft or get at most something in the higher 20ft range. Thats all I really need.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

pdqaltair said:


> Value of my time. Well, skilled labor goes $75/hr which would require me to earn ~ $110/hr before taxes.


As a person with a long back ground in construction, I've never understood how workers in the boat maintenance business can charge $75 to $100 per hour. Unless they are the employers of the workers that have to cover their labor taxes and profit, I just can't see how those average blue collar workers like myself can justify those rates. I understand that to get proficient in something it takes a lot of repetitive practice, but it's not like their doing rocket science. That's $600 to $800 for an 8 hour day! Who makes that kind of money working with their hands?


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Depends on where you are. I've heard reports of a welder working in NW Oz earning A$400,000 a year at the moment. Works out around A$110 per hour (working 2 weeks on 2 off & 12 hour days x 6)

Ilenart


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

catamount said:


> It is all these things, _averaged over time,_ that come out annually to the 5% to 15% of the new replacement cost of your boat, _not_ the purchase price of your boat (unless you purchased your boat new).


I've heard this 5 to 15% figure quite often. So let's average that at 10%. I can accept that while I'm getting my boat ready for a cruise and I have a salary coming in.

Even then I have spent NZ$28k (US$21k)in 3.5 years, that's only 2.3% of the new replacement cost of my boat. That includes a new house bank, new fridge units, a new Xantrex mains battery charger, complete new Raymarine instrumentation, a Xantrex battery monitor, serious main engine rehabilitation, 90% of a genset paid for, the list is extensive. Still only 2.3% of replacement.

For me to contemplate $35k a year for maintenance while cruising!?!??

Nobody could ever afford to cruise at that ratio unless they have a small boat because they really want a small boat. If their boat is worth $10K it's normally because they haven't got the money to go bigger. For that sailor $1000 a year is probably a lot of money. A $100k boat means $10k pa. and so on.

If that is true then all those ordinary sailors like me that haven't sold a Microsoft or won a lottery in the recent past can forget about cruising.

We (my family) have done passages of assorted distances (some 10000 nm some 3000 nm) in assorted boats and in our experience I reckon that I can cruise all-up for $2k a month including *everything* other than air fares home. The ratio extolled requires 1.5 times that for maintenance alone.

With the greatest respect, I don't believe that there are many people cruising at that level. Maybe dock-bound sailors on salaries but not cruising. Those that are are very lucky to have such an income.

JMHO again


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

FWIW, I like the 5% figure rather than 10 or 15%, and yes you can certainly cruise for quite awhile without investing this much in maintenance, but at the end of that period (let's say a multi-year circumnavigation?), your boat will probably be pretty tired and you'll likely need to undertake a significant refit before heading out again (new sails, new running rigging, new this, new that, refresh the non-skid on the decks, etc, etc...). This 5% figure is for the long-term (like 20 years long term) average, keeping the boat in good seaworthy condition, ready to go out again at the end of those 20 years.

Your mileage may vary.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

So smack let's have some meaningful information from my part to you even if this numbers are only true for Portugal and maybe to Spain even if there are a big difference in prices in the west coast and the South coast of both countries.

For an almost new 36ft:

Insurance (all things covered) - 1000€

Marina for year - From 1500€ to 5500€ (depending from the place)

Engines (outboard included) : annual, with new filters, new oil including column, new rubber piece for the cooling system and new zincs - 250 €

Taking the boat out of the water, let it be out in the sun for a month to dry out (space rent), antifouling, put it in the water again (traveler lift) - 1000€.

And that's it for a new boat for 8 years or so. Than (on an older boat) you will need new sails, new seals for the sail drive, some time later new running rigging, new electronics, some years later standing rigging, with 20 or 25 years a new mast and many things you have to change in an old boat. In a 30 years the only thing remaining will be the hull.

Forgot about all safety equipment that has to be changed from time to time and the price for the 3 year revision of the safety material 

But this is for a boat in tip top condition ready to do offshore work. If you just sail at the weekends and don't go far or with bad weather you can have the luxury to break things and replace them when they break. Not a big problem and much much cheaper. If you sail offshore you would not want to have broken things in the middle of the Ocean or in bad weather .

I believe that is the factor that costs more in a boat, I mean the type of sailing you want to do with it and I think that has to do with your question and the answer is: Yes having a boat ready and safe for offshore work is much more expensive than to have a boat fit for week end sailing and small coastal cruises with fair weather.

Regards

Paulo


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## talbot (Jul 18, 2000)

*34 year old Dufour 31 Maintance*

Doing all my own work
$2-3000 a year on average repairs and upgrades.
$1600 launch/haul/store at our home
$1000 mooring/membership/taxes.
hrs of labor.....ridiculous! too embarrassed to say.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*O'day 35*

OK Smack,

I bought the boat last October, and motored her from where the PO kept her to where I will be keeping her. Total distance traveled by sail: 0 nautical miles. Total distance traveled: 7 nautical miles. I've done all my own work, because I've been spending a lot of time correcting what the "professionals" did.

Here is my analysis to date (numbers are rounded to nearest $25)

*Winter storage* $2000 
Storage Jacks & Blocking $1400
Shrink Wrap $600​
*Maintenance, refit & repair* $8,500
Surveys $1200
Coolant water pump (replace w/ Kubota Tractor equivalent) $100
Alternator Mounting Bracket upgrade $200
15A Battery Charger $150
Graphics (new name) $100
90A Alternator $225
Heat Exchanger Zincs, end cap & gaskets $100
Parts to Rebuild Sea Water Pump $200
Deck Fill Caps $50
Fuel Gauge $25
Echo Charger $125
Fuel Filters $50
Loos Gauge $75
Screens and Gaskets for ports $100
Genoa Track Cleats $100
Anchor and Rode $500
Replace lenses in two Deck Hatches $825
Sunbrella covers for hatches $125
Fiberglass Supplies (resin, hardner, thickner, gloves, etc) $150
Electrical supplies (Wire, Crimps, etc) $400
Turnbuckles $225
Galvanic Isolator $225
Throttle & Transmission levers $100
Bilge, Fresh water and Engine Hoses & Clamps $800
Handrails $350
Misc Paint & Supplies $150
Bottom Paint & supplies $300
Acrylic Drop Board Supplies $125
Hatch Screen & Shades $400
Bilge pump & Switch $250
Cleaners. Polishes & Pads $425
Polisher $200
LED Lights (Cabin/Reading/Anchor) $350
Fire Extinguisher $25​
*Tender* $1550
Tender $800
Motor for Tender $750​
*Summer Slip* $4,000

Next year should be less (I hope!).

Feel free to check my math....


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

If we weren't spending all that money on the boat, I can guess where our ladies would be redirecting it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow - this thread is turning into a gold mine! Thanks for all the replies. This really helps in understanding what you're getting into.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Every year will be different, because you are at times replacing big items. I don't keep track of what is spent. I have spent what ever it took, and at times I have spent as little as possible. If I were to keep track it might depress me......lololol......*i2f*


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

imagine2frolic said:


> Every year will be different, because you are at times replacing big items. I don't keep track of what is spent. I have spent what ever it took, and at times I have spent as little as possible. If I were to keep track it might depress me......lololol......*i2f*


Good point i2. Ignorance can indeed be bliss. Trust me, I've always been pretty blissful.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

PCP said:


> Taking the boat out of the water, let it be out in the sun for a month to dry out (space rent), antifouling, put it in the water again (traveler lift) - 1000€.


A month??!!??
To "dry out"???!!!???
Every year??!!??


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

It will cost you as much as you want to spend 
You could neglect certain cosmetic things, but make sure you maintain the important critical items like standing rigging etc....

I've had "Tortuga's Lie" for 16 years and it seemed like I was in West Marine dropping $500-$1000each visit....for the first few years. Once I finished upgrading the systems and getting the boat looking like I want, the expenditures have slowed quite a bit and now, I am getting to the long-term "wish List" items that aren't necessary, but make life a lot better on board, like refrigeration....... I would say that I spend maybe $1500/yr just on maintenence now, but it was much greater earlier.

P.S. I do my own work on everything.....


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## jfdubu (Jul 18, 2002)

Annual budget, I've owed my boat (J28) for 8 years. Each year I prepare a project list and priortize it as #1, must do to be safe and reliable, #2 annual should do maintenance, small upgrades, #3 bigger upgrades, things to keep the admiral happy.

As an example changing the empeller on the cooling pump and replacing zincs, priority #1, new cushions for the cabin, #3.

Soup to nuts, (total annual boat cost) I target a budget of about $300/month. For the most part I can live within that. Major upgrades, cushions, new sails are budgeted seperately.

I do 99% of the work myself. The 1% was when I had to call a deisal mech because I didn't know any better. Now I do.

John


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

catamount said:


> FWIW, I like the 5% figure rather than 10 or 15%,


Not harping on, just an observation.

Buy a new boat $350000

Do ZERO maintenance other than fixing little things

Save 15% of replacement cost pa for 3.5 years $183750 (not counting interest)

After 3.5 years sell used boat for $166750 nett (should be a walk in the park)

Net benefit of saving and sale price $350500

Buy a new boat every 3.5 years and use the $500 profit to pay for the little things that break on the next new boat

At that level who would want to do maintenance

Sort of blows the concept of a 20-year refit a little out of the window.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Smack,

It depends on the boat, the age, the condition, how fastidious the you are as a owner, how handy you are as a owner and what you want to do with the boat 

We have spent roughly 15K on the boat since we bought her 4 months ago to prepare her for coastal cruising.

However her previous owner was of the school of thought that if she is still floating then she is 'well maintained'. 

I also find with boats that $1000 spent well now will save you $3000 next year.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

Omatako said:


> I'm like some other posters, I know what I have spent but I can't really seperate maintenance from upgrade. When a radar gos tits-up is the replacement upgrade or maintenance?
> 
> But just to put a number on it, I have spent NZ$28k on my boat in 3.5 years, mostly upgrades.
> 
> As a friend once said of his fishing gear - my continuing nightmare is that when I die my wife sells stuff off the boat for what I told her I paid for it. Damn, someone's in for a serious bargain.


You have no choice but to replace it if it has failed therefore it is maintenance even though you might replace it with a better item because technology has changed and improved.

So in a nutshell.
Items you replace because they are broken or worn out is maintenance!
Items you replace that are not broken or worn out are upgrades!

According to the UK business tax laws.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, my boat has a couple of engines, but that aside it's comparable. I keep a maintenance spreadsheet which I started the day I bought the boat. Surprisingly, over 6 years the annual expenses are steady at around $1500 per year. This is strictly maintenance. 

As mentioned above, slip fees, insurance and registration fees are not included in this figure.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

TropicCat said:


> Well, my boat has a couple of engines, but that aside it's comparable. I keep a maintenance spreadsheet which I started the day I bought the boat. Surprisingly, over 6 years the annual expenses are steady at around $1500 per year. This is strictly maintenance.
> 
> As mentioned above, slip fees, insurance and registration fees are not included in this figure.


That's a good figure seeing that prices have not stayed stationary over 6 years. They reckon that prices either double in 10 years or you only get half of what you got before.


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