# Boat buying advice for 35''+ range



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Hi:

I''ve read the relevant posts for similar questions about boat buying advice. But I''d like some personal directed advice if possible.

I took a 3 day sailing course about 5 years ago aboard a Hunter 35. The course covered sailing basics, anchoring, man-overboard, etc. Because I never felt competent to "take it out by myself", I proceeded to do no further sailing ;-(

Now, 5 years later, I have 3 boys (ages 1,3,5), and am getting back into sailing. I''ve taken a few all day courses (J22 Refresher, J30 Qualification), and have hired a captain for instruction totalling about 16 hours of private instruction on the water (primarily J30). Let''s just say I''m like Starbuck--careful.

The goal is to become thoroughly competent myself in order to take my wife and boys out to enjoy safe and fun sailing.

We live in Chicago, and I''m interested in daysailing but also in crusing around the great lakes, perhaps for a week at a time.

I''m looking into buying a boat, and from what I''ve read, I need to be looking in the 35'' minimum range (3 boys, myself and wife). I''ve been aboard a Hunter 35, a J22 and J30 (racers), and a Beneteau 40.

I''m interested primarily in daysailing and crusing, not really racing. I''d like a "fast-enough" boat, but I''m MORE interested in a good comfortable (but not sluggish) sail rather than winning the Mac next year ;-)

As for budget, I can spend up to about $100K. Obviously, if I can find the "perfect for us" used boat for $40K, that would be better than spending $90K. I THINK I''d prefer a 1985 or later used boat, minimum length 33'' or 35'' preferably.

Any suggestions on boats that would likely make us very comfortable and happy? Someone once compared certain boats to cars ("a Freedom 35 is like a Mercedes, a Hunter 35 is a Ford Taurus"--I found that quite helpful ;-) BUT I don''t want to start a flame war here ;-)

Thanks in advance for what I expect will be excellent advice to someone quite ignorant of the whole topic.

Mark


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## henryvand (May 2, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

To a large degree boats like cars have evolved to provide greater interior space relative to overall length. Many older boats in the upper 30 ft range have less usable living space than current boats in the low 30 foot range. If you anticipate doing most of the handling yourself go for a more current design offering maximum space in a boat that you can manage single handed. I took delivery earlier this year on a new Beneteau 331 (34 FT) which I handle often without crew. The interior is spacious and with furling main and all lines located conveniently to the helm it fit the bill nicely at a price that I think offers pretty good value for money. Performance wise the Beneteaus tend to do fairly well. Catalina offers similar boats in this range. The Hunters I''ve encountered tend not to be as fast - they seem to trade off ease of sail handling for performance.


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## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Some of the more common sailboats manufactured in the US and a fun way to compared them to their "land based people movers":

Beneteau-Ford Taurus

C & C-Corvette

Catalina-Chevrolet Cavalier

Caliber-Volvo cars

Hunter-U-Haul Truck

Island Packet-Volvo Truck

J-Boats-Porsche

Sabre-BMW

Tartan-Jaguar

The term Mercedes, in my opinion, should be reserved for boats such as Hinckleys and Aldens. Feel free to "pile on" this response for your favorite Foreign built boats. Warning, don't say anything bad about the Halberg-Rassys!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

I own two of the cars mentioned here, and one of the boats. For what I pay in repair bills on my Volvo (which is now my 17 year old daughters car) I''ll be selling it soon and buying a Honda for her when she goes off to college. As far as my Porsche, ya its kinda expensive to keep around, but its worth every dime! Now my Catalina 30'' never breaks down, costs ver little to maintain and I get great pleasure sailing around the San Diego coastal areas. So maybe I should sell the Volvo & Porsche and buy a Cavalier!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Dear denr,

I really like your comparisons - except the Catalina. I''d liken them to basic Honda or Toyota sedans. They get the job done nicely, hold their value, and require little maintenance.

What would be the boating equivalent of a Miata?

Dave...


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## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Perhaps a Zodiac with a Honda 4 stroke 10 hp engine.


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## coffeejones (Jul 20, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

You may want to consider a 1985 or later Pearson 36.  Same layout as the Sabre with 2 private cabins, large head, nice galley and cockpit. Sails beautifully and really holds its value. Had mine for 2 years and sold for more than I paid or put into it. They''re in the 70-80 range.


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## Silversailor (Jul 13, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Ditto on the post 1985 Pearson 36. I have sailed Pearsons for 9 years and they are solid, well built, good sailing boats. You should be able yo pick up a nicely equipped P-36, 1987-89 for $75-85K...or a late model P-38 (a P-38 with a scoop transom) for about $100K. Good luck!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

The analogy''s to cars don''t work for me. I wish I could use them but I don''t see many comparisons. I am amused however because I drive a Corvette and sail a C&C.

The question is what boat to get and I approve of boats in the 35 foot size or even bigger. Look at a C&C 40 if the draft is not a problem. It''s such a pretty boat and they sail so well.


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## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

I rest my case.


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## Frenzy (Jun 27, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

If your in Chicago the first thing you need is a slip or mooring. They can be hard to come by. Second go for proformance, nothing is as bad as spending 100K and having 10K boats zipping past you. Take a sail on a newer J/109, J/105, J/35.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

just in case you are interested I am selling my Hunter 35.5 (95). take a look at the ad on either the hunterowners.com site in the classified section or on boattraderonline.com. Asking 82K very well equipped but would consider offers.

Frank


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

just in case you are interested I am selling my Hunter 35.5 (95). take a look at the ad on either the hunterowners.com site in the classified section or on boattraderonline.com. Asking 82K very well equipped but would consider offers.

Frank


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## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Why buy the Hunter bath tub (piece of crap)when you could buy a real sailboat, my 1986 Sabre 34 for $85,000 and it is in Chicago already.


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## wwilson (Jul 7, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

wrt, "Why buy the Hunter bath tub..."
It is possible that many, maybe hundreds of, very satisfied Hunter owners read this message board. I suspect a few may have been offended. Is the remark based on hard first-hand evidence or was it simply good-natured hyperbole comparing it to your Sabre? I''ve sailed on Hunters and believe they are fine boats for their designed purpose. Realistically, few of us ever exceed that same designed purpose anyway! You may agree that there is always something "better", no matter what boat you own.

Respectfully,
Wayne


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

What do you think about a Santa cruz 52-63


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Just go out and buy a boat, before your kids don't want to hang out with dad any longer. Owning a boat is all about use. If I read you right, go get a Catalina 34 or 36, the cleanest latest model you can find. Find out how you use the boat and then trade in two years if you need to. That's the best thing about a Catalina they are the easiest boat to resale.


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## halyardz (Sep 2, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

Mark, you have received some good advice and some bad advice. In most cases, well intentioned I''m sure. Since this is your first major boat, I''d go with a smaller budget, as you suggested in the $40-50k range and figure $5k+ for fixup. You''ll have plenty of time to spend the other $50k. First see if the family likes it. Go with a well found boat that holds resale value.

With different needs, I researched for a year and purchased a Tartan 33 for well under 50k and am very happy indeed. My first boat was a 23.5 Beneteau...I then did quite a bit of island chartering etc.

I would be concerned about getting slip in your area...they can be scarce, expensive or both.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

I''m considering having a aurvey done an a 1979 O''Day 30 for possible purchase. I''m a first time sailboat buyer.. What kind of car would that be?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

*Boat buying advice for 35''''+ range*

If it''s in good condition, the Oday 30 comes out ahead of a Yugo in my book.

I''d like to suggest a Tartan 10 (see article in most recent Sailing World) to the originator of this string, or find out what he''s gotten. Great for daysailing, good racing potential, simple upkeep (even trailerable!), and minimum expense for a maximum of boat.


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## Bluesmoods (Jul 8, 2001)

If you are in Chicago, Make it a point to check out the Dufour 40._ (It is or was at Belmont Harbor)_ It has been cleaning up out there and has real nice accomodation, storage and so forth. They make a 34 as well that is priced about $160k or so.

I really don't know what the market is regarding used boats on Lake Michigan but if you can find a used Dufour. I would highly recommend consideration thereof.


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## GusMattos (Aug 24, 2006)

Denr said:


> Some of the more common sailboats manufactured in the US and a fun way to compared them to their "land based people movers":
> 
> Beneteau-Ford Taurus
> 
> ...


Fantastic way of putting some words my friend...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Rob...The O'Day would be an AMC Eagle...decent all purpose production quality boat but now on orphan!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Cabo Rico 38*

I'm new to the site so I have not yet figured out how to post a new message. At any rate I'm getting back into boating after 20 years and am looking for that perfect used boat. I plan to sail primarily up and down the East Coast as well as to the island. 90% of the time it will be just my wife and I and the remaining time it will be single handed or 2 couples. I'm looking for a well made cruising boat with good handling capabilities and comfort for 2. I seem to have gravitated to the Cabo Rico 38 and the Passport 40 for different reasons. Actually I've gravitated to the Cabo Rico and my wife to the Passport. Does anyone have experience with these boats they can share with me and any thoughts on the relative merits of each. Thanks.
Tom Shannon


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## harborman (Aug 12, 2006)

*new boat*

Looks like you have an afinity for J Boats. They are known for speed and stability. The series of cruisers built in the late 80"s, 32,35,37 and 40 can provide exciting sailing and good cruising accomodations. I have owned a 37 for the past 7 years and found it to be the best boat I have sailed ---ever. Good for cruising and club racing.
It is for sale now ( a bit far away for you) in RI.

I would stay where you have experience to start.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Look at the Hunter 37-cutter. It is ideal for your family and profile with 3 cabins and a separate shower. Cutter rig is easily single-handed and in another five years or so you will have more than enough crew.

I think the Uhaul analogy is weak. This John Cherubini design is one instance where Hunter got it right. Manufactured between 1981 and 1984 and available from $35K to $45k. More like the HumVee - but without the price tag.

Google 'Hunter 37-cutter"


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

mark,
i've read through a number of replies, and i am surprised that nobody has asked about your wife's experience on the water; whether you intend to take other folks out sailing with you; or do family/couples outings overnight.
i grew up taking family vacations,sailing the chesapeake bay on a columbia 26, and while 5 people on a 26 foot sailboat can get cramped (mom,dad and the three of us 15/11/7), we enjoyed the experience. all of us were seasoned sailors and each of us loved the sport (ok..mom tolerated it, but the rest of us loved sailing). bottom line quality over quantity (size).
while it appears your budget allows for a wide choice of sailboats, i caution against buying too much boat for your level of experience. practically speaking, docking a 30 foot boat on a calm day can be trying, but putting a 40 footer in a slip with only one additional pair of hands, with a 15 knot breeze (you'll be busy at the wheel..that leaves mrs. mark handling the lines) will be a learning experience, and as long as you handle stressful situations calmly, it will be lots of fun. screaming at the spouse and progeny is not allowed <vbg>
if i were in your position, i'd be looking at 34 sabres with a keel/cb config. the boats are exceptionally well built, has a roomy cockpit, coachroof mounted traveler (avoid cockpit travelers, especially those mounted right in front of the companionway,as inexperienced sailors might find themselves tangled up in them). 
having never sailed the great lakes, my rationale for k/cb boats is simple..you can go places a boat w/ a six foot draft can't.this is a huge plus for those of us that sail on the chesapeake.this may not matter on lake michigan, but shoal draft boats come in handy from time to time (run hard aground when the water temperature is about 45, you'll appreciate this feature.
if you absolutely have to have a 35+ boat, a tartan 37 will do nicely..and you can pick up one in great shape, early 80's vintage for about 75- 80k, same thing for sabres. you'll have a quality boat that is stable, fun to sail and reasonably fast. 
if you want a go-fast boat...J boats are the way to go, yet be prepared to give up some creature comforts (check with mrs mark on these). a C and C also gives speed, comfort and is a fun boat to sail. all the aformentioned boats hold their value.
good luck with your search.

sam 
S/V Sanctuary


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just discovered that my 2004 BMW has bottom blisters. I thought they resolved those problems back in the 90's. 

Seriously, it's useful to hear from people who have a breadth of knowledge of both cars and boats to provide us with rough ideas of boat quality and performance. Most of us here are just learning about boats but we all, unfortunately, have daily experience with cars.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> I just discovered that my 2004 BMW has bottom blisters.


And I just put new brakes on my 2002 Beneteau.


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## Rodz47 (Apr 2, 2006)

" .... a C and C also gives speed, comfort and is a fun boat to sail. all the aformentioned boats hold their value...."
with the exception that CandC has balsa core below the water line and I've just walked away from buying a boat that has delamination on 25sqft of hull - otherwise the boat was in pretty good shape. If you buy a boat of such vintage a good surveyor is a "must" for a corvette.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

*not because I am one....*

and no, I'm not jetting across the country to check out your latest "want to"  
but a survey is a really good idea. 
think of it this way... 
You probably grew up in a house. More than likely you've lived in a house at one time or another. You may have bought a house or two in the past. 
Would you ever buy a home without an inspection?

I'm not saying its a requirement on a 16 ft hobie, or nice 4000.00 trailer sailer, but a wise man once told me, only bet as much as you can afford to lose.

Horror stories abound, no need to go into them here. Suffice it to say, there are far more boats purchaced without surveys than with, and thats ok by me, I'm busy enough, thank you. But it just plain boggles my mind when someone lays out 100k for a hole in the water that you throw money into and decides to not fork over... oh, less than 600.00 for a competent inspection. (operative word, competent)

Ok, so you've been on the water 30 years, your parents have gills, you're able to surf the 'net at gigahoochie speed, you've got reams of specs and piles of research, you're a CG 100 tonner pilot, and your toes are webbed.

Are you able to look at your dream with an unbiased eye?

There are good and bad surveyors in this business, just like brokers, sell-it-yourselfer, marinas, and boats. The "accreditations" a surveyor has is but one of the factors. (There are some very interesting "insider information" stories there as well) For example, one sanctioning organization requires a person to work in "the biz" under another, like an apprentice for a period of years, and do "x" number of surveys over a period of time.... However, if you make a substantial "remuneration" to the body, you too can be a member of the lofty club as soon as the check clears.

(besides you're probably going to need one for insurance or banking issues.)

ok, time for church, I need to switch to decaf.


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## paulmcquillan (Jan 4, 2002)

If you are buying a boat over 10 years old, then I'd also suggest setting aside 25% to 40% of the purchase price for the refit. I'm pretty picky, but that's where ours ended up.

Sometimes you can get a boat that someone else has just put through a refit -- although then the question becomes "did they do the work in a seaman-like manner to specs you can accept."

I'll second or third the opinions recommending the vairous C&C (and Tartan) designs.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Here's a question...I've always sort of thought of Tartan and Sabre as pretty similar quality boats and targeted at the same customer. I rarely see Sabre mentioned here as a choice but Tartan is all the time. Neither of these brands have particular interest to me but I wonder if this is an oversight or if Sabre is no longer producing the same quality boat? Anyone know?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would always recomend the Hinckley pilot, which aside from being hugely expensive, is a great boat, and is a blast to sail. They are absolutely beautiful, which helps to make up for the fact that they are dead slow. But they can sleep up to 6, and are great family boats.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*It's a 5 year old thread.*

Surprised no one mentioned that the original post is 5 years old. Chances are this fellow bought his boat and is sailing his brains out. Let's hope so.

Cam -- as for your comment about the lack of mention of Sabres, my first thought when reading the post was "Sabre 34!" You are most correct that Sabres aren't mentioned nearly enough, and I'm not sure why either. Perhaps it's because Denr sails a Sabre 34??????????? Judging by what I see at the boat show every year, Sabre's quality hasn't slipped an inch.

I'm very happy with my Pearson btw. Also an under-appreciated boat on here.


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## S/VNirvana (Jan 2, 2004)

I don't know if this is still relevant; but I have a Pearson 36 for sale, 1973 upgraded since we purchased it.

Sonny,
s/v SKYLARK, P-36
Branford, CT


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

SailorMitch said:


> Cam -- as for your comment about the lack of mention of Sabres, my first thought when reading the post was "Sabre 34!" You are most correct that Sabres aren't mentioned nearly enough, and I'm not sure why either. Perhaps it's because Denr sails a Sabre 34??????????? Judging by what I see at the boat show every year, Sabre's quality hasn't slipped an inch.
> 
> I'm very happy with my Pearson btw. Also an under-appreciated boat on here.


It's interesting to see the size of the internet groups behind each brand. On yahoo groups for instance Columbia has 1,366 members, Tartan has 400 members, Sabre has 230 members and Pearson has only 167 members. It may be that you hear more about the Tartans because the Tartan group is a more vocal group then the Sabre group. Does this mean that the Tartans are sitting around and talking while the Sabres are out sailing?

In the marina where I winter store I see a lot more Catalinas and Sabres then Tartans so why do your hear more from the smaller groups? Who joins these groups and for that matter why do people post in a venue like this? (said with tongue firmly in cheek)
All the best,
Robert Gainer
Tartan 34C


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