# Cruising to Australia? Customs NAZIS here.



## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

G'day Guys
I just arrived home from my sailing club and read the item listed in the link below. If any of you are planning to come to my country, bring money, guns or lawyers because you might need them.
Dead set mate, I am ashamed to be an Australian after reading what MY BLOODY GOVERNMENT is doing to yacht people here.
Go into the link and look for the story on Custome Dept.
The link...
www.thecoastalpassage.com

Then click on ISSUES then CUSTOMS then click on BRUTAL CUSTOMS.

I know we should be aware that since Sept 11 things are no longer the same but I know of no place where terrorists came by yacht.

If you feel a little angry, tell the Australian Consulate wherever you are or tell MY govt. direct.
Google Australian Govt. and go to Federal Parliament and tell them what to do.
Fair winds to all
Jim.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would definitely avoid Australia on my voyages, just based on the three anecdotes in that posting. While I like most of the Aussies I've met, that, combined with a preponderance of highly venomous critters, like the funnel spider; nasty critters, like the cute, but not cuddly koala bear. Those customs officials that make most third world dictators look reasonable. I thought Australia was a civilized country, with democracy and a working legal system... it appears not.

Of course, once the various major ports realize how much business they're losing due to the draconian laws, I'm willing to bet that they're re-written to only apply to large commercial vessels.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

SD- The koala is not a "bear". Bears are mammals, koalas are marcupials.


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

T go back to school.
SD you forgot the best one - Box jelly fish.


I thought Australia was a civilized country, with democracy and a working legal system... it appears not.
Isnt bleeding every last cent out of every last person the mark of truelly civilized country? ;D


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

T34C said:


> SD- The koala is not a "bear". Bears are mammals, koalas are marcupials.


Yes, I know... but then again.... IIRC, Panda Bears aren't bears either.. they're more like giant racoons in many respects...

Most people do call them Koala Bears... at least that I know...and they are mammals...just not placental mammals... All marsupials are mammals...but not all mammals are marsupials. 

BTW it is Marsupials...

Box Jelly fish are nasty, but they have a smaller one that is almost as bad... and they have several species of snake, including a sea snake that are lethal. 



> *How Venomous Are Australian Snakes Really?
> 
> * When you look for information about Australian venomous snakes you read statements like these again and again:
> 
> ...


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

Like we are so much better 
http://www.keynoter.com/articles/2007/01/31/news/news06.txt

I like the quate on the Socahtoa's web site after the fact. Something along the lines of not being able to govern innocent people


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I would definitely avoid Australia on my voyages, just based on the three anecdotes in that posting. While I like most of the Aussies I've met, that, combined with a preponderance of highly venomous critters, like the funnel spider; nasty critters, like the cute, but not cuddly koala bear. Those customs officials that make most third world dictators look reasonable. I thought Australia was a civilized country, with democracy and a working legal system... it appears not.
> 
> Of course, once the various major ports realize how much business they're losing due to the draconian laws, I'm willing to bet that they're re-written to only apply to large commercial vessels.


SD,
I have to admit that I'm taking this one with a grain of salt right now.

While it is true that the current Australian government are a pack of ratbags (IMHO only of course) and our foreign minister in particular is a complete nutter with a penchant for fishnet stockings and high heels, I'm finding it a little hard to believe that this situation is as bad as it's being made out to be. I've seen posted elsewhere a letter from customs saying that the only restriction is that notice of entry must be given at least 96 hours prior to expected arrival and that there is no maximum for that notification. 
Now the only countries in the world that are within 96 hours sailing time from Australia would be New Guinea and parts of Indonesia. So on the face of it provided you notified Australian customs prior to departure for Australia you would be easily covered. 
I'm finding it a bit hard to fathom that at the time of checking out visa requirements the couple referred to weren't supplied with the information but then bureaucratic incompetence can not be overlooked. The penalty on the other hand seems totally out of proportion to the offence.
Regards
TD

Oh, and you forgot the Blue Ringed Octopus and yes Koalas are simply Koalas just as Pandas are simply Pandas.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

I seriously considered relocating to Australia. Then I discovered to my horror that I was categorized as "undesirable". Mwaaa!

I am too old (47) and my job (architect) is not on the list of "skill shortages". Oh, and one other thing- apparently I'm too white. I was told that if I were a "minority" I could apply for asylum. Yes, I was assured that as long I am not white (yuck, spew), my asylum application would be accepted.

Even if my skills DID meet their demands, they will not accept ANY white person of my age. Too damned old. Who wants a bunch of old people like me running around taking up space. Not me.<grin>

I suppose I could bribe someone. Grease a few palms. <grin>


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> I seriously considered relocating to Australia. Then I discovered to my horror that I was categorized as "undesirable".
> 
> I am too old (47) and my job (architect) is not on the list of "skill shortages". Oh, and one other thing- apparently I'm too white. I was told that if I were a "minority" I could apply for asylum. Yes, I was assured that as long I am not white (yuck, spew), my asylum application would be accepted.
> 
> ...


So shocked and appalled was I by your case that I've spoken with the cross dressing looney who is our foreign minister and he's asked me to put you straight.

We've studied the lay of the land and realise that not allowing an unemployable, aging old fart to come and live here was a mistake. In future we will have new regulations that state quite specifically the only people we will allow in must be ready and willing to go on the dole immediately they arrive and be within ten years of pensionable retirement age. You also need to guarantee to slug the Australian taxpayer with your medical bills, kids education expenses would also add to your appeal. Failure to become a burden on the Australian taxpayer will see you deported but that hardly seems likely now does it ?

BTW , there is a rumour running around the Australian Immigration Dept that the real reason you were rejected is that you are a complete dill but I find that pretty hard to believe.

ps - the suggestion that whites are discriminated against in Australia is utter crap and if you could find someone to sponsor you (essentially guaranteeing you a job) you would not have any major trouble. The big problem in reality is that the best place to find an architect in Australia is behind the bar at the local pub so why on earth would we want to import any more ?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

This from the Australian Cistoms and Immigration website. Does this sound all that draconian ? I think not.

*information for yachts travelling to australia - let us know you're coming*

The Master of a vessel arriving in Australia is required by law to give notice of impending arrival not later than 96 hours before arrival. Penalties may apply for failure to do so.
There are several agencies interested in your arrival - principally Customs, Quarantine and Immigration.
96 hours notice may be given by either;

Sending an email to [email protected]:
Sending a fax to +61 2 6275 6331;
Phoning Australian Customs National Communications Centre on telephone number +61 3 9244 8973
You will need to provide the following information

The name of your craft;
Your intended first port of arrival;
Your estimated arrival time;
Your last four ports;
The details of people on board including name, date of birth, nationality and passport number;
Details of any illness or disease recently encountered;
If you have any animals on board;
If you have any firearms on board.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> the suggestion that whites are discriminated against in Australia is utter crap...If you have a sponsor...


Really? I guess that explains why young Moslems are running wild in the streets. They all sponsor each other!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20535
http://www.vdare.com/francis/gang_rape.htm
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/racial_rape.htm
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21133150-5006784,00.html

Do you think these girls were discriminated against? Gosh no. Australia wouldn't do that!


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

tdw said:


> Does this sound all that draconian ? [/LIST]


No. It does sounds pretty clear. Too bad for the guy who didn't know, and shame on the folks who gave him wrong info if they did but these rules shouldn't stop anyone from visiting and getting bitten or stung, whichever their preference!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> Really? I guess that explains why young Moslems are running wild in the streets. They all sponsor each other!
> 
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20535
> http://www.vdare.com/francis/gang_rape.htm
> ...


What happened to those young girls was horrendous. 22 years jail was in my opinion far too short a prison term. I'd have locked the pricks away until hell freezes over but it does not show systematic discrimination against people with white skin by Australia, the Australian Government or Australians as a whole. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people like you who use what are in effect isolated incidences to promote their own racist agenda. Where the crimes of the ****ing KKK proof that all white Americans were a bunch of brain dead morons who got off on wearing their mummies bed clothes ? I don't think so.
So, those girls were savagely discriminated against by a bunch of mongrel dogs with not a trace of moral fibre amongst them but how , pray tell, did AUSTRALIA whose legal system saw the rapists put away for over 20 years do the discriminating ?


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people like you who use what are in effect isolated incidences to promote their own racist agenda.


FACT 1: Australian immigration laws DO NOT apply to non-whites.

FACT 2: Non whites can waltz right into Australia by claiming asylum. They need not be facing death or persecution. (In America they're placed on the dole, issued a driver's license, and shown to the voting booth.)

FACT 3: Non-whites who arrive in Australia by boat are welcomed like the prodigal son - given permanent residency. While white (yuck, spew) tourists who arrive by boat are descended upon by customs officials.

FACT 4: You are an incredibly sensitive, terminally politically correct, bleeding heart liberal. As with all liberals, you resort to name-calling at the drop of a hat. Any and all opposition to your liberal agenda is "racism". Notice how quickly you played that card. Maybe you should hold it in reserve - take it out later, like the Queen in a chess game. That would be a better tactic, comrade.

Power to the pimples!

_____

Monday, August 14, 2006
Australia PM withdraws bill restricting asylum seekers arriving by boat 
Jaime Jansen at 10:16 AM ET

Australian Prime Minister John Howard on Monday abandoned the proposed Migration Amendment (Designated Unauthorised Arrivals) Bill that would have required asylum seekers arriving by boat to be processed at offshore camps after it became apparent that the Senate would not approve the bill. Senator Judith Troeth, a member of the governing Liberal Party, voiced opposition to the bill and told Howard that she would vote against it. Howard's Liberal Party maintains only a one vote majority in the Senate, and Howard chose to withdraw the bill rather than face defeat.

Last week, the House of Representatives approved the bill by a measure of 78-62, but faced strong opposition from four MPs in the governing party. Critics of the bill have condemned Howard for catering to Indonesia to resolve a diplomatic dispute between the two countries that arose after Australia gave visas to more than 40 Indonesian asylum seekers from Indonesia's Papua province earlier this year. Shortly after Howard withdrew the bill, eight new asylum seekers arrived on Australian soil. The Indonesian government also warned that a flood of refugees would likely head towards Australia soon.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/08/australia-pm-withdraws-bill.php


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Fact 1. Wrong. Australian immigration laws apply (however unfairly) to all.
A boat person arriving without papers is treated exactly the same be they whatever skin colour or country of origin. Funnily enough however we don't seem to seeing too many white boat people.

Fact 2. Get your facts straight. Check out how many asylum seekers are in detention camps in this country. White ? I don't think so. The vast majority are either asian or middle eastern.

Fact 3. And you complain about name calling. Jaysus man, get a grip. Ever heard of the children overboard affair ? Not the way prodigal chldren are treated traditionally.

Fact 4. Incredibly sensitive eh ? Aren't you sweet. Somewhat predictable is the "bleedin heart liberal" line but then you probably say that to anyone who is politically to the left of Ghengis Khan. I must admit however that I'm unlikely to be buying any T-Shirts from the sites you seem to enjoy.

Pimples ? Carbuncles on the backside of humanity is more like it. Lance 'em and be done with it.

As for Wee Johnny's attempt to get his offshore internment camps up and running, how many white skinned people do you reckon would be held in one of those ? Hmmm ? Howard withdrew the bill cos he was gunna get rolled. It was a **** of a bill and it's passing will not be lamented. Probability is that it will be back on the agenda again when Howard thinks he can get it through the Senate. Even, as you pointed out, members of his own party did not support the thing. It's called democracy and he didn't have the numbers but to to suggest that bill was somehow discriminatory against whites is bollocks. It was aimed fairly and squarely at non whites and it did not have the support of the community at large. 

Eight new arrivals eh ? Now that's what I call a deluge. Holy **** we are going to be overrun by the buggers.

Reality is that Australia is far from perfect. There is without doubt too much bureacratic interference in our lives but I don't see that impinging on the freedoms of whites any more than it does on other ethnic groups.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> ...was categorized as "undesirable"...


I too was thinking of relocating to Australia a while back. But you didn't quite tell the whole story about the Australian rules. There is a whole checklist of attributes for which you get "points" if you wish to go as a "skilled immigrant". You get more points for being younger or having a skill set that is in short supply in Oz. There are other categories where the age limit doesn't apply.

I have to laugh at the comparison, as the USA has some of the toughest immigration requirements (for legal immigrants, that is) in the world. The process can be pretty demeaning as well! I remember going into my interview for an H1-B visa after months of waiting and bringing along a bound folder with supporting documentation that was at least 2 inches thick! And the Green Card application was even worse.


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

Capecodphyllis ...

Why do want to leave here and what, in your opinion, is the advantage of emigrating from the United States to Australia? Not interested in arguing, just understanding ...


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

Zanshin said:


> I too was thinking of relocating to Australia a while back. But you didn't quite tell the whole story about the Australian rules. There is a whole checklist of attributes...


I never got that far. I visited their immigration website and saw that my age and job skill did not meet with their requirements. It's too early to get serious about it. However, as I approach retirement, I will eventually relocate to a place with great diving and sailing. Australia is one possibility.

Trust me. I am not bitter or angry as the person above seems to think. My comments were entirely tongue-in-cheek. I believe the laws are perfectly reasonable. That being said, I can't help but notice the massive flood of unemployable non-white immigrants into Australia. Many of whom were previously wandering around Indonesia in Osama Bin Laden t-shirts.

I KNEW that if I dare mention the flood of non-white "asylum seekers" into Australia, and the massive crime wave and financial burden that has resulted, a knee-jerk bleeding heart liberal would go completely berserk. I was right.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

cockeyedbob said:


> Capecodphyllis ...
> 
> Why do want to leave here and what, in your opinion, is the advantage of emigrating from the United States to Australia? Not interested in arguing, just understanding ...


Well, I'm looking to retire early. So my criteria is based strictly on where I can have the most fun. I've been to Australia a half a dozen times, and had a blast, despite being worked over by the customs Nazis. Australia is great for sailing and scuba diving. And other outdoor activities. The people are generally fantastic. Also, I dream to have a ranch with about a dozen Border Collies - in a place with good year-round weather. That's hard to do in the states. Although I am quite well off financially, not even I can afford to buy a big ranch in Southern California, or any other place where the weather is great - just too expensive. By comparison, I could live like a god in Brazil or Argentina, and pretty well in Australia or New Zealand.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> I KNEW that if I dare mention the flood of non-white "asylum seekers" into Australia, and the massive crime wave and financial burden that has resulted, a knee-jerk bleeding heart liberal would go completely berserk. I was right.


In other words everything you said was a complete load of crap and having been caught out you now pretend it was all said in jest. You know , I do believe there are quite a few small population centres in Australia that have noted a shortage of local dimwits. You could be in there with a chance. I don't think that being a right wing reactionary old fart would disqualify you from useful employment as a village idiot.

Shock horror headlines "flood of non white asylum seekers", "unemployable", "massive crime wave and financial burden" ? You very funny fella. Wouldn't recognise the truth if it slapped you in the face, but a very funny fella. None of that is actually true but then you are only joshing so we know not to take you seriously. Trust you ? Yeah right. I'd rather put my faith in Lord Downer of Bagdad.

Note - Australia has a rigid policy of accepting no more than 12,000 refugess in any one year. I believe these figues below are from 2004. I can't confirm that but they are definitely post 2002.

71 countries accept refugees and asylum seekers in some form or other 
Of the 71 Australia is ranked 32nd ;
On a per capita basis Australia is ranked 38th, slightly behind Kazakhstan, Guinea, Djibouti and Syria;
Of the 29 developed countries that accept refugees and asylum seekers Australia is ranked 14th. Per capita, the US takes twice as many refugees as Australia.
Oh yes and 11 out of 13,000 applicants were deported for bad character and only one for suspected links to a terrorist organisation.

Now if you will excuse me I need a cup of tea a bex and a good lie down. Foaming at the mouth , not to mention the blood loss from my poor old liberal cardio vascular system have quite done me in.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

*Massive Flood of Non-White Immigrants....*

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, murderous non-white immigrants are running wild in the streets of Sydney, while Asians are replacing white Australians as the new "professional elite". I could easily post another hundred "disaster" articles just like these, but that would be 'off topic' for this forum.

See articles below.

Yesireeeee, despite being a "dimwit", "right wing reactionary", "old fart" and the "village idiot" I can still read.

-- Phyllis

_____________________

Immigrant Gangsters' Hold on Sydney is Safe

Sydney Morning Herald - Editorial
December 22, 2005

For too long our politicians and police have turned their backs on a festering problem writes Miranda Devine.

FORGET Clover Moore as the Grinch of Sydney's Christmas. The "Lions of Lebanon" with their Glock pistols and Molotov cocktails have put her to shame this holy season. While the NSW police lock down entire beachfront suburbs, instruct stores to stop selling baseball bats, and apply the full force of the law to pasty-faced nerds with a taste for Nazi literature, they continue to cower from the real hardmen, the Lebanese criminal gangs of Sydney's south-west who have ruled the roost in this city for at least a decade and now number in their thousands.

So when parents and children attending Christmas carols on Monday night, December 12, at St Joseph the Worker Primary School in South Auburn were abused and spat on by "young men of Middle Eastern appearance", there were no police to protect them. Not even when the sounds of gunshots echoed inside the church, and parked cars were pumped full of bullets. "Police were called by a number of parents and the principal, but they were unable to attend because they were needed elsewhere," said Cardinal George Pell in a statement.

The police were busy that night - Sydney's mini Kristallnacht "night of the broken glass" - as carloads of men drove east from Lakemba and Punchbowl to systematically attack whole streets of parked cars with bats and machetes. Identified by police as being of the proverbial Middle-Eastern appearance - code for Lebanese Muslim, despite the fact many are second-generation Australians - they also stabbed a man, smashed a woman's head with a bat, attacked another woman in a pizza shop and a man who was putting out his rubbish.

They were extracting revenge for the riot the day before on Cronulla beach when a protest against continuing intimidation of beachgoers by thugs described as Lebanese turned ugly and drunken racists attacked passers-by suspected of being "Lebs".

The retaliation from the gangs of the south-west was a calculated show of strength, with victims reportedly being asked if they were "Australian" before being attacked. Over the next 24 hours another three churches in Sydney's south-west were attacked.

With police unable to guarantee safety, Holy Spirit College at Lakemba cancelled its carols service. Other schools in the south-west cancelled concerts and end-of-year presentations or hired security guards.

Thus the lead-up to Christmas this year has been notable for a rash of cancellations of traditional yuletide activities. The North Cronulla surf carnival was called off. As was the Bondi Surf Bathers Life Saving Club's annual Christmas cheer party, and a carols concert expected to draw 3000 people to Coogee beach.

Rather than a problem of race, religion or multiculturalism, Sydney is suffering from a longstanding crime problem. It is a textbook case of how soft policing and lenient magistrates embolden successive waves of criminals, infecting other people who might otherwise have been law-abiding.

The roots of the problem can be traced back to Telopea Street, Punchbowl, in 1998 when a Korean schoolboy, Edward Lee, 14, was stabbed to death because he went to the wrong house for a birthday party and looked at the wrong people in the wrong way. He didn't know that a notorious group of extended Lebanese-Muslim families, descended from the lawless hill tribes of Northern Lebanon, lived in Telopea Street.

When police arrived they were surrounded and intimidated by about 100 people. For two years they seemed incapable of solving the crime, despite at least 20 witnesses.

Lee's mother, Soobin, searching for clues to the death of her only child, went doorknocking in Telopea Street and the inhabitants laughed in her face. His father took to sleeping on top of his son's grave and weeping.

Eventually a youth, who was 15 at the time of the stabbing, was charged with Lee's killing. In 2003, the youth, who had said "f---ing Asian deserved it" after the stabbing, was sentenced to a maximum of 10 years in jail. His friend, now-jailed triple murderer Michael Kanaan, received a three-year sentence for being an accessory after the fact.

But Lee's killing had brought unwanted police attention to Telopea Street's criminal activities, which included drugs and car rebirthing rackets. Soon Lakemba police station was attacked with machine-gun fire, death threats were made to police on their radio network and a police car was shot at as it travelled down Telopea Street. Kanaan was acquitted this year of the attack on the police station, which prosecutors said was to teach police a lesson for "hassling Lebanese people". An alleged accomplice skipped bail and was arrested in Lebanon on terrorism charges. No one has been brought to justice over the attack.

The police commissioner of the time, Peter Ryan, talked tough and did little.

Seven years later, the police are still running scared.

Last week, Channel Seven reported it had obtained a police incident report instructing police officers to stay away from Punchbowl Park that Monday night, where a group of men were congregating before heading to Maroubra.

The report said "a direction was given to police about midnight not to enter the area and antagonise these persons".

The Police Minister, Carl Scully, told reporters he defended the decision not to confront the group. Superintendent John Richardson was quoted saying a car crew sent to Punchbowl Park, where 10 cars and 40 men had gathered, was "ordered to withdraw and observe from afar. There was no trouble and sending police in would only cause trouble."

Setting the example of an astonishing lack of nerve, the Premier, Morris Iemma, told Sydneysiders to stay away from the beach for safety and then cancelled his Christmas media reception which had been scheduled for last Wednesday night. He appeared in every media appearance like a rabbit frozen in the spotlight, perhaps frightened of alienating Lebanese Muslims in his electorate of Lakemba.

That Iemma's electorate is at war with former premier Bob Carr's former electorate of Maroubra is a handy synchronicity. It highlights the ALP's long-term culpability in creating the monster that is plaguing the city, its history of ethnic branch-stacking and "whatever it takes" tactics to shore up support in the heartland electorates of the south-west, its policy of spin and cover-up which is at last coming undone.

As one passenger last week told taxi driver Adrian Neylan, who has chronicled the violence on his weblog, "the gangs have won".

Indeed they have, but the recent display of official cowardice in the face of the criminal gangs of Sydney's south-west is just a taste of the way Sydney has been run for a decade.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...1135032077070.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

_____________________________________

Asian Invasion Displacing Aussie Elite -----------

The Changing Face of our Professional Elite

By Michael Duffy
Sydney Morning Herald
November 12, 2005

THE big change no one talks about is the growing success of people from Asian backgrounds in the professions. If present rates continue, they could form a majority of Australian professionals within a generation or two. Such an outcome would be unusual: perhaps the first time in history a nation's elite has invited another group to come in and replace it.

Asians are the first significant group of immigrants to this country to come from, or at least aspire urgently to enter, the middle class. They are far more successful in education than other Australians. For instance, in the 2004 HSC, about 350 of the top 1000 students had Asian surnames. As people of Asian background comprise about 7 per cent of the population, this means they did five times better as a group than other Australians. This success has been going on for more than a decade: in 1993, for example, the figure was 330.

I don't have figures for all pupils (there are almost no publicly available figures on any aspect of this subject) but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest this level of achievement is reflected in all HSC results and continues into university courses. An article in People and Place by Siew-ean Khoo and Bob Birrell looked at how many males aged 25 to 34 in 1996 had tertiary qualifications. For those with parents born in Australia it was 17.7 per cent, for China 48.8 per cent, and for India 31.3 per cent.

At university, many courses have well over 7 per cent Asian students. For example, one informed academic told me four years ago that about 50 per cent of entry level dentistry students and a quarter of medical students were from Asian backgrounds. The general pattern is that the numbers are highest in numerate subjects such as IT and accounting, and lower in courses such as law. Whatever the figures might be at the moment, they will increase, as more than 50 per cent of immigrants have come from Asia for many years now.

Many university students are full-fee foreign students, of whom there are more than 200,000. Between 30 and 40 per cent get visas on graduation. The Government has hardly increased the number of domestic university places since 1996, so these graduates are literally taking jobs that would once have gone to Australian citizens.

In 1998 foreign full-fee students comprised 34 per cent of all degree completions in IT and 32 per cent in the business/administration/economics field. Last year, 5267 visas were granted to foreign IT graduates at a time when 30 per cent of domestic graduates were having trouble finding work. Madness.

A recent report for CPA Australia said that in 2003-04, 47 per cent of all commencing students in accountancy came from overseas, mainly Asia. It also noted the estimate of IDP Australia (the universities-owned firm that sells Australian education abroad) that by 2025 there will be almost as many overseas students studying at Australian universities as there are local students today.

Does it matter if, say by 2030, people of Asian background make up 10 per cent of the general population but several times that of those in elite jobs? Opinions would vary if people were asked, but they're not. The nation is making this big change without any public discussion.

What is certain, though, is that many young Australians have been excluded from university over the past decade, due to the failure to increase domestic university places in line with the growing population.

Perhaps the reason there has been no public discussion of these changes (apart from fear of being called racist) is that those who contribute most to public debate have not yet been seriously affected by them.

There are, after all, far less than 7 per cent Asian faces in Parliament, the media, and the humanities and social science faculties of our universities. And those of us in these circles who are parents are (relatively) smart and wealthy enough to help our kids get into university, with a bit of luck.

It is interesting that the Prime Minister, once a critic of the rate of Asian immigration, is now presiding over what amounts to the demographic reconstruction of this country's elite, at the expense of the children of those once known as Howard's battlers. Strange behaviour from a self-declared conservative.

A recent report for CPA Australia said that in 2003-04, 47 per cent of all commencing students in accountancy came from overseas, mainly Asia. It also noted the estimate of IDP Australia (the universities-owned firm that sells Australian education abroad) that by 2025 there will be almost as many overseas students studying at Australian universities as there are local students today.

Does it matter if, say by 2030, people of Asian background make up 10 per cent of the general population but several times that of those in elite jobs? Opinions would vary if people were asked, but they're not. The nation is making this big change without any public discussion.

What is certain, though, is that many young Australians have been excluded from university over the past decade, due to the failure to increase domestic university places in line with the growing population.

Perhaps the reason there has been no public discussion of these changes (apart from fear of being called racist) is that those who contribute most to public debate have not yet been seriously affected by them.

There are, after all, far less than 7 per cent Asian faces in Parliament, the media, and the humanities and social science faculties of our universities. And those of us in these circles who are parents are (relatively) smart and wealthy enough to help our kids get into university, with a bit of luck.

It is interesting that the Prime Minister, once a critic of the rate of Asian immigration, is now presiding over what amounts to the demographic reconstruction of this country's elite, at the expense of the children of those once known as Howard's battlers. Strange behaviour from a self-declared conservative.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...fessional-elite/2005/11/11/1131578230428.html

THE RISE OF MIDDLE EASTERN CRIME IN AUSTRALIA

by retired NSW detective Tim Priest

Source:
Quadrant Magazine Society 
January 2004 - Volume XLVIII Number 1-2
http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581

I believe that the rise of Middle Eastern organised crime in Sydney will have an
impact on society unlike anything we have ever seen.

In the early 1980s, as a young detective I was attached to the Drug Squad at the
old CIB. I remember executing a search warrant at Croydon, where we found
nearly a pound of heroin. I know that now sounds very familiar; however, what
set this heroin apart was that it was Beaker Valley Heroin, markedly different
from any heroin I had seen. Number Four heroin from the golden triangle of
South East Asia is nearly always off white, almost pure diamorphine. This heroin
was almost brown.

But more remarkable were the occupants of the house. They were very
recent arrivals from Lebanon, and from the moment we entered the
premises, we wrestled and fought with the male occupants, were abused
and spat at by the women and children, and our search took five times
longer because of the impediments placed before us by the occupants,
including the women hiding heroin in baby nappies and on themselves
and refusing to be searched by policewomen because of religious beliefs.
We had never encountered these problems before.

As was the case in those days, we arrested every adult and teenager who had
hampered our search. When it came to court, they were represented by Legal
Aid, of course, who claimed that these people were innocent of the minor charges
of public disorder and hindering police, because they were recent arrivals from a
country where people have an historical hatred towards police, and that they also
had poor communications skills and that the police had not executed the warrant
in a manner that was acceptable to the Muslim occupants.

The magistrate, well known to police as one who convicted fewer than one in ten
offenders brought before him during his term at Burwood local court, threw the
matter out, siding with the occupants and condemning the police. I remember
thinking; thank heavens we don't run into many Lebanese drug dealers.

Lebanese family terrorises neighbourhood

In 1994 I was stationed at Redfern. A well known Lebanese family who lived not
far from the old Redfern Police Academy were terrorising the locals with random
assaults, drug dealing, robberies and violent anti-social behaviour. When some
young police from Redfern told me about them, curiosity got the better of me and
I asked them to show me the street they lived in.

Despite the misgivings of the young police, I eventually saw this family and the
presence they had in the immediate area. As we drove away in our marked police
car, a half brick bounced on the roof of the vehicle. The driver kept going.
I said, 'What are you doing, they've just hit the car with a house brick!" The
young constable said, "Oh, they always do that when we drive past."

The police were either too scared or too lazy to do anything about it. The damage
bill on police cars became costly and these street terrorists grew stronger and the
police became purely defensive. You see, the Police Royal Commission was about
to start and the police retreated inside themselves knowing that the judicial
system considered them easy targets. The police did not want to get hurt or
attract Internal Affairs complaints.

Call me stupid, call me a dinosaur, but I made sure that day that at least one
person in the group that threw the brick was arrested. I began by approaching
the group just as that magistrate had lectured me and the other police involved in
the Croydon search warrant. I simply asked who threw the brick. I was greeted
with abuse and threats. I then reverted to the old ways of policing. I grabbed the
nearest male and convinced him that it was he who had thrown the brick. His
brave mates did nothing. By the time we arrived at the police station, this young
fool had become compliant, apologetic and so afraid that he kept crying. You may
not agree with what I did, but I paraded this goose around the police station for
all the young police to see what they had become frightened of.

For some months after that, police routinely rounded up the family whenever it
was warranted. However, some years later, with a change of Police Commander
and the advent of duty officers under Peter Ryan, the family got back on top and
within months had murdered a young Australian man who had wandered into
their area drunk. They had set up a caravan where they sold drugs twenty four
hours a day. They tied up half the police station with Internal Affairs complaints
ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous, but under Peter Ryan, these
complaints were always treated seriously.

In effect, this family had taken control of Redfern. Senior police did their best to
limit police action against them, fearing an avalanche of IA complaints that would
count against the Commander at Peter Ryan's next Op Crime Review.

I hope the examples I have just used don't give the impression that I am a racist
or a bully. The point I want to make from the start is that policing has never been
rocket science. It is about human dynamics, street psychology, experience, a
little bit of theatre and a substantial quantity of common sense. Sure, forensics
and the advances of DNA, rapid fingerprint identification and electronic
eavesdropping have taken policing to a new level of sophistication, but ultimately,
when an offender is identified by whatever means, scientific or otherwise, it all
comes down to the interaction between the investigator and the offender during
the arrest and interview process. Violent and abusive offenders do not respect the
law or those who enforce it. But they do respect the old style cop who doesn't
take a backward step and can't be intimidated. When they encounter cops like
that, they fold quickly there is rarely much behind the veneer of bravado.
In 1996 with the arrival of Peter Ryan, and the continued public humiliation of the
New South Wales Police through the Wood Royal Commission, a chain of events
began that have affected the police so deeply and so completely that, as far as
ensuring community safety is concerned, I fear it will take at least a generation to
regain the lost ground.

The rise of Middle Eastern crime groups in NSW

It was about 1995 to 1996 that the emergence of Middle Eastern crime groups
was first observed in New South Wales. Before then they had been largely known
for individual acts of anti social behaviour and loose family structures involved in
heroin importation and supply as well as motor vehicle theft and conversion. The
one crime that did appear organised before this period was insurance fraud,
usually motor vehicle accidents and arson. Because these crimes were largely
victimless, they were dealt with by insurance companies and police involvement
was limited. But from these insurance scams, a generation of young criminals
emerged to, become engaged in more sophisticated crimes, such as extortion,
armed robbery, organised narcotics importation and supply, gun running,
organised factory and warehouse break ins, car theft and conversion on a
massive scale including the exporting of stolen luxury vehicles to Lebanon and
other Middle Eastern countries.

As the police began to gather and act on intelligence on these emerging Middle
Eastern gangs the first of the series of events took place. The New South Wales
Police was restructured under Peter Ryan. Crime Intelligence, the eyes and ears
of all police forces throughout the world, was dismantled overnight and a British
style intelligence unit was created. The formation of this unit and its factions has
been best described by Dr Richard Basham a library stocking outdated books. The
new Crime Intelligence and Information Section became completely reactive. It
received crime intelligence from the field and stored it. Almost no relevant
intelligence was ever dispensed to operational police from 1997 until I left in
2002. It was a disgrace.

One of the fundamental problems that arose out of the new intelligence structure
was that it no longer had a field capacity or a target development capacity. With
the old BCI there were field teams that were assigned to look into emerging
trends. Vietnamese, Romanian and Hong Kong Chinese groups were all targeted
after intelligence grew on their activities. When the alarm bells went off over
growing intelligence concerns about a new or current crime group, covert
operations were mounted.

Lebanese gangs intimidate police

When the Middle Eastern crime groups emerged in the mid to late 1990s no
alarms were set off. The Crime Intelligence unit was asleep. I know personally
that operational police in south west Sydney compiled enormous amounts of good
intelligence on the formation of Lebanese groups such as the Telopea Street Boys
and others in the Campsie, Lakemba, Fairfield and Punchbowl areas. The
inactivity could not have been because the intelligence reports weren't
interesting, because I have read many of them and from a policing perspective
they were damning. Many of the offenders that you now see in major criminal
trials or serving lengthy sentences in prison were identified back then.
But even more frustrating for operational police were the activities of this ethnic
crime group, activities that set it apart from almost all others bar the Cabramatta
5T. The Lebanese groups were ruthless, extremely violent, and they
intimidated not only innocent witnesses, but even the police that
attempted to arrest them.

As these crime groups encountered less resistance in terms of police operations
and enforcement, their power grew not only within their own communities, but
also all around Sydney except in Cabramatta, where their fear of the South East
Asian crime groups limited their forays. But the rest of Sydney became easy
pickings.

The second in the series of events began to take shape with Peter Ryan's
executive leadership team. Under Ryan's nose they began to carve up the New
South Wales Police and form little kingdoms where a senior police officer ruled
almost untouched by outside influence. They then appointed their own
commanders in the police stations. Almost all of them had little or no street
experience; but they in turn brought along their friends as duty officers, similarly
inexperienced. Some of the experience these police counted on their resumes
included stints at Human Resources, the Academy, the Police Band in one case,
the various cubby holes in Police Headquarters, almost no operational policing
experience yet they were tasked to lead. Never has the expression "the blind
leading the blind" been more appropriate.

The impact that this leadership team had on day today operational policing was
disastrous. In many of the key areas that were experiencing rapid rises in Middle
Eastern crime, these new leaders became more concerned with relations between
the police and ethnic minorities than with emerging violent crime. The power and
influence of the local religious and minority leaders cannot be overstated. Police
began to use selective law enforcement. They selected targets that were unlikely
to use their ethnic background and cultural beliefs to hinder police investigations
or arrests. It was mostly Anglo Saxons and Asians that were the targets, because
they were under represented by religious leaders and the media. They were soft
targets.

An example of the confrontations police nearly always experienced in Muslimdominated
areas when confronting even the most minor of crimes is an incident
that occurred in 2001 in Auburn. Two uniformed officers stopped a motor vehicle
containing three well known male offenders of Middle Eastern origin, on credible
information via the police radio that indicated that the occupants of the vehicle
had been involved in a series of break-and-enters. What occurred during the next
few hours can only he described as frightening.

When searching the vehicle and finding stolen property from the breakand-
enter, the police were physically threatened by the three occupants
of the car, including references to tracking down where the officers lived,
killing them and "****ing your girlfriends". The two officers were
intimidated to the point of retreating to their police car and calling for
urgent assistance.

When police back up arrived, the three occupants called their associates
via their mobile phones, which incidentally is the Middle Eastern radio
network used to communicate amongst gangs. Within minutes as many
as twenty associates arrived as well as another forty or so from the
street where they had been stopped. As further police cars arrived, the
Middle Eastern males became even more aggressive, throwing punches
at police, pushing police over onto the ground, threatening them with
violence and damaging police vehicles.

When the duty officer arrived, he immediately ordered all police back into their
vehicles and they retreated from the scene. The stolen property was not
recovered. No offender was arrested for assaulting police or damaging police
vehicles.

But the humiliation did not end there. The group of Middle Eastern males
then drove to the police station, where they intimidated the station staff,
damaged property and virtually held a suburban police station hostage.
The police were powerless. The duty officer ordered police not to
confront the offenders but to call for back up from nearby stations.
Eventually the offenders left of their own volition. No action was taken
against them.

In the minds of the local population, the police were cowards and the message
was, Lebs rule the streets. For a number of days, nothing was done to rectify this
total breakdown of law and order. To the senior police in the area, it was more
important to give the impression that local ethnic relations were never better. It
was also important to Peter Ryan that no bad news stories appeared that may
have given the impression that crime in any area was out of control. Had these
hoodlums been arrested they would have filed IA complaints immediately via their
Legal Aid lawyers and community leaders. To senior police, this was a cause for
concern at the next Op Crime Review.

So the incident was covered up until a few local veteran detectives found out
about it and decided to act. They went quietly to the addresses of the three main
offenders early one morning and took them away with a minimum of fuss and
charged them. Some order was restored, but not nearly enough.

By avoiding confrontations with these thugs, the police gave away the streets in
many of these areas in south-western Sydney. By putting in place inexperienced
senior police who had never copped the odd punch in the mouth or broken nose
in the line of duty, the police force hung the community and the local police out to
dry. Most of these duty officers had retreated to non-operational areas early in
their careers because they couldn't stomach the risks of front line policing. Yet
they put their hands up to take vital operational roles because the positions are
highly paid duty officers receive about $30,000 to $40,000 a year more than a
detective sergeant, which is ludicrous.

When I say that this type of policing was condoned and encouraged across wide
areas of New South Wales, I am not exaggerating. The problems in southwestern
Sydney are a direct result of covering up criminality because it went
against the script that Peter Ryan and his executive had continually pushed in the
media, day after day after day - that crime was on the decrease and Peter Ryan
was the world's best police commissioner.

In hundreds upon hundreds of incidents police have backed down to
Middle Eastern thugs and taken no action and allowed incidents to go
unpunished. Again I stress the unbelievable influence that local
politicians and religious leaders played in covering up the real state of
play in the south-west.

Spread of criminal gangs aided by incompetent police leadership

The third event was the reforming of Criminal Investigations into a centrallycontrolled
body called Crime Agencies. All the specialist crime squads were done
away with: Arson, Armed Robbery, Drugs, Organised Crime, Special Breaking,
Consorting, Vice, Gaming, Motor Vehicle Theft were wrapped up into one size fits
all. Ryan once boasted that by the time he finished retraining the New South
Wales Police, constables could investigate a traffic accident in the morning and a
homicide in the afternoon, a statement that summed up his Alice-in-Wonderland
policing theories. All the expertise and experience evaporated overnight.
It was as if the public hospitals had suddenly lost every surgeon and had GPs
perform major surgery. No matter how bright and dedicated these GPs were, they
would simply not have the expertise, the training and the experience to take
over. It would be a disaster. Well, that is what happened to criminal investigation
in this state. Crime Agencies was an unmitigated disaster. Yet those who
designed and ran this farce have gone on to highly paid government jobs.
The final straw for the New South Wales Police was the OCR 0p Crime Review,
which Peter Ryan and his executive team came up with. It was loosely based on
the groundbreaking Compstat program of the New York Police Department, the
brainchild of Commissioner William Bratton. The difference between Ryan's OCR
and the NYPD Compstat was that the NYPD model covered everything on the
criminal waterfront. The Ryan-inspired OCR had just six crimes. And those six
included domestic violence, random breath testing, theft, robbery, assaults and
motor vehicle theft - no drugs, organised crime, firearms, shootings, attempted
murders or homicides. The crimes that instil fear into the average citizen were
ignored, and with plenty of innovative answers as to why. The OCR focused police
attention on a limited number of crimes and allowed far more serious and deadly
crimes to get out of control.

So with a police force on the verge of bankruptcy, the Middle Eastern
crime problem was an explosion waiting to go off. I had observed the
beginnings of Asian organised crime whilst at the Drug Squad and later at the
National Crime Authority where I worked on two task forces, one of which was on
Chinese organised crime.

When I look back on the influence of Chinese organised crime in Australia, I see a
gradual but sustained trend, not one of high peaks in terms of activity or
incidents, but one of a well planned criminal enterprise that attracts little
attention. It's there but you can't always see it.

It probably took twenty years for the Chinese to become a dominant
force in crime in this city. But Middle Eastern crime has taken less than
ten years. So pervasive is their influence on organised crime that rival
ethnic groups, with the exception of the Asian gangs, have been
squeezed out or made extinct. The only other crime group to have survived
intact are the bikies, although the bikies these days have legitimised many of
their operations and now make as much money from legal means as they do
illegally. In many ways they have adopted US Mafia methods of legitimate
businesses shrouding their illegal operations.

With no organised crime function, no gang unit except for the South-East Asian
Strike Force, the New South Wales Police turned against every convention known
to Western policing in dealing with organised crime groups. In effect the Lebanese
crime gangs were handed the keys to Sydney.

Extortion and attacks on Australians

The most influential of the Middle Eastern crime groups are the Muslim
males of Telopea Street, Bankstown, known as the Telopea Street Boys.
They and their associates have been involved in numerous murders over
the past five years, many of them unprovoked fatal attacks on young
Australian men for no other reason than that they are "Skips", as they
call Australians.

They have been involved in all manner of crime on a scale we have never seen
before. Ram-raids on expensive stores in the city are epidemic. The theft of
expensive motor vehicles known as car-jacking is increasing at an alarming rate.
This crime involves gangs finding a luxury motor vehicle parked outside a
restaurant or hotel and watching until the occupants return to drive home. The
car is followed, the victims assaulted at gunpoint, and the vehicle stolen. The
vehicles are always around or above the $ 100,000 mark and are believed to be
taken to warehouses before being shipped interstate or to the Middle East.
Extortion on inner city nightclubs is largely unreported because of the dire
consequences of owners reporting these incidents to police. When I worked at
City Central Detectives just before I retired, I was involved in the initial
investigation of one brave nightclub owner in the inner city who did report this
crime. The Lebanese criminals were arrested after a sting operation. However, I
believe that after many violent threats the owner sold up and now lives interstate.
He once had a thriving business that for a nightclub ran a reputable
service, keeping out drugs, maintaining safety for patrons and co-operating with
the police.

The tactics used by the gang were simple. A large number of Middle Eastern
males would enter the club, upwards of twenty at a time. They would
outnumber the security staff and begin assaulting Australian male
patrons, sometimes stabbing them. The incident would be over in minutes
and the gang members would be long gone before police arrived. A few days
later, senior members of the gang, well dressed and business-like, would
approach the club owners and offer to provide protection from similar incidents
for around $2000 to $3000 a week. Many of the owners paid up and considered it
a necessary expense in keeping their business viable. If they didn't pay up, or
contacted the police, the gangs would wait some weeks, even months, before
returning to the nightclub and extracting a terrible revenge on the owners, who
would pay up or leave.

There is compelling intelligence that in one well-known entertainment
precinct in the city, nearly all the bars, nightclubs and hotels pay
protection money to Middle Eastern crime gangs.

What sets the Middle Eastern gangs apart from all other gangs is their propensity
to use violence at any time and for any reason. I thought I would never see the
level and type of violence that I saw with the South-East Asian gangs in
Cabramatta, particularly the 5T, the Four Aces and Madonna's Mob, which were a
breakaway from the old 5T. But the violence, although horrific, was almost always
local, that is within the Cabramatta area and almost always against fellow Asians.
As a result of that locally based violent crime it was relatively easy to identify the
culprits and break them up once we were given the resources after the police
revolt of 1999-2000.

Racial attacks against young Australians

The Middle Eastern cycle of violence is not local. It can occur on the central coast,
around Cronulla, Bondi, Darling Harbour, Five Dock, Redfern, Paddington,
anywhere in Sydney. Unlike their Vietnamese counterparts, they roam the city
and are not confined to either Cabramatta or Chinatown. And even more
alarming is that the violence is directed mainly against young Australian
men and women. There is a clear and definite link between violent
attacks on our young men and women being racial as well as criminal.
Quite often when taking statements from young men attacked by groups
of Lebanese males around Darling Harbour, a common theme has been
the racially motivated violence against the victims simply because they
are Australian.

I wonder whether the inventors of the racial hatred laws introduced
during the golden years of multiculturalism ever took into account that
we, the silent majority, would be the target of racial violence and hatred.
I don't remember any charges being laid in conjunction with the gang rapes of
south-western Sydney in 2001, where race was clearly an issue and race was
used to humiliate the victims. But then, unbelievably, a publicly funded document
produced by the Anti Discrimination Board called "The Race for Headlines" was
circulated, and it sought not only to cover up race as a motive for the rapes, but
to criticise any accurate media reporting on this matter as racially biased. It
worries many operational police that organisations like the Anti-Discrimination
Board, the Privacy Council and the Civil Liberties Council have become
unaccountable and push agendas that don't represent the values that this great
country was built on.

The extent to which Middle Eastern crime gangs have moved into the drug market
is breathtaking. They are now the main suppliers of cocaine in this city and are
now developing markets in south eastern Queensland and Victoria. They are
major suppliers of heroin in and around the inner city, south-western Sydney and
western Sydney.

Many of you would have heard of the horrific problems in France with the
outbreak of unprecedented crimes amongst an estimated five million Muslim
immigrants. Middle Eastern males now make up 45,000 of the 90,000 inmates in
French prisons. There are no-go areas in Paris for police and citizens alike. The
rule of law has broken down so badly that when police went to one of these areas
recently to round up three Islamic terrorists, they went in armoured vehicles, with
heavy weaponry and over 1000 armed officers, just to arrest a few suspects. Why
did it need such numbers? Because the threat of terrorist reprisal was minimal
compared to the anticipated revolt by thousands of Middle Eastern and North
African residents who have no respect for the rule of law in France and consider
intrusions by police and authority a declaration of war.

The problems in Paris in Muslim communities are being replicated here in Sydney
at an alarming rate. Paris has seen an explosion of rapes committed by Middle
Eastern males on French women in the past fifteen years. The rapes are almost
identical to those in Sydney. They are not only committed for sexual
gratification but also with deep racial undertones along with threats of
violence and retribution. What is more alarming is the identical reaction by
some sections of the media and criminologists in France of downplaying the
significance of race as an issue and even ganging up on those people who try to
draw attention to the widening gulf between Middle Eastern youth and the rest of
French society.

That is what we are seeing here. The usual suspects come out of their institutions
and libraries to downplay and even cover up the growing problem of Middle
Eastern crime. Why? My opinion, for what it's worth is that these same social
engineers have attempted to redefine our society. They have experimented with
all manner of institutions, from prisons to mental institutions and recently to
policing.

Some of the problems we now see with policing are the result of Peter Ryan's
dream of restructuring and retraining police. The Police Academy was changed
from a police training college into a university teaching social sciences and very
little else. Constantly I would see young police emerge from the academy with a
view that as police officers they were counsellors, psychologists, marriage
guidance experts, social workers and advocates for social change. but with almost
no skills in street policing. Their training had placed not only them in danger, but
also their workmates and the community.

Policing is about enforcing the rule of law. It has never been about analysing
every offender for the root causes of crime. That is not our job. The police enforce
the law and protect the community regardless of race, colour or religion. What we
have seen in south-west Sydney is ethnic communities being policed selectively.
The implications for this are frightening when you look at Paris. They had
selective policing of a particular community, which as a result is now out of
control.

In February 2001 when I appeared before the Cabramatta inquiry, I gave
evidence which at the time was controversial and attracted the usual claque of
ratbags and lunatics from the ABC and their associates at the Sydney Morning
Herald as well as that fruit loop Mike Carton from 2UE. I said that this city is
going to be torn apart by gang warfare the likes of which we have never seen
before. In 2003 I was finally proven right, but I take no comfort from that.
However, the criticism I received was unprecedented. I was a nutter, a liar, a
racist, a disgruntled detective - but I was right.

Ethnic gangs aided and protected by multicultural industry

The critics still refuse to concede that we have a problem. They are still clinging
to the multicultural theme. To highlight the problems with Middle Eastern
communities in this city is to threaten to tear down the multicultural facade.
The amount of money spent on the multicultural industry beggars belief. It is a
lucrative and sustainable position for many. Governments pay huge money to
anything that bears the word multicultural. Indeed the police department, like
other government departments, spends vast amounts on multicultural issues,
multicultural jobs, multicultural consultancies, education packages, legal advice,
public relations and the rest. Having expended large amounts of money on
multiculturalism, they are hardly likely to criticise it. Those that feed off
multiculturalism are not likely to question it.

When I gave evidence to the Cabramatta inquiry, I risked my career and my
safety in coming forward. I did it because I had sworn an oath to protect the
community I served. That community was Cabramatta. Cabramatta is made up
almost entirely of residents born outside this country, mostly South East Asians,
and their children. But when I went forward and exposed the shame of
Cabramatta, the residents were not Asians in my eyes, but Australians no matter
where they came from. It was my duty to speak up for them and to protect them.
Race was never an issue. I have received many awards in my police career but
the ones I hold dearest are those I received from the Cabramatta community.
One old man who had spent seven years in refugee camps in South East Asia
before coming to Australia said the day he landed in Australia was like dying and
coming to heaven. Cabramatta was a community of ordinary people like that old
man, who recognised the problems of drugs and organised crime in their
community and spoke up and agitated for change. It was a slightly built
Vietnamese man named Thung Ngo who led the charge on behalf of a community
that had had enough of crime and forced a parliamentary inquiry into Cabramatta
which ultimately saved their community from destruction. Not once during that
inquiry did I hear any member of the Cabramatta community - apart from the
Anglo Saxon local member - complain that they were being racially discriminated
against because of the inquiry or its aftermath. They wanted change; they
wanted a safe law-abiding community. It was my duty to do everything I could to
honour my pledge to protect and to serve.

But I have not heard anything like that from the Middle Eastern community.
Initially the gang rapes were the fault of Australian culture, according to
one religious leader in the south west. I note that he has now softened his
stance and is calling for change among Middle Eastern youth. But they are just
words; there seem to be no Thung Ngos among them.

What is it that draws such defence for this community from certain sections of the
media? Why didn't they join in to defend the Asian community during the fallout
from the Cabramatta inquiry? And where are these apologists when it comes to
the plight of our first Australians, our indigenous peoples? Their cause is not
trendy enough, not global like the refugee or Islamic issues. Yet one of the most
depressing sights that has confronted me as a policeman is the shame of Redfern.
I first saw Everleigh Street some twenty two years ago, and nothing has changed
since. The atmosphere of sheer hopelessness and desperation still hangs around
the neck of every young Aborigine who lives in those ghettos, yet they hardly
ever rate a mention.

National threat

The Middle Eastern crime groups and their associates number in the
thousands, not the hundreds as the government and senior police would
have you believe. It is the biggest crime problem we have ever faced,
and it is growing.

Hardly a day goes past without some violent crime involving a "male of Middle
Eastern appearance", though I see lately that description is watered down now to
include "and/or Mediterranean appearance". To an operational policeman, there is
a noticeable difference between an Italian and a Lebanese male.
That these groups of males can roam a city and assault, rob and intimidate at will
can no longer be denied or excused. You need only to look at Paris and other
European countries that have had mass immigration from Middle Eastern
countries to see the sort of problems we can expect in years to come. My
prediction is that within ten years, Middle Eastern crime groups will
spread rapidly across Australia as they seek to expand their enterprises.
There will be no go areas in south western Sydney, just like Paris.
Only recently I have seen quotes from senior police and retired police who claim
that race is not the issue in organised crime. Those statements are stupid and
dangerous. Organised crime groups with the exception of the bikies are almost
always ethnically based - any experienced detective will tell you that. The days of
Anglo Saxon gangs are almost gone, with the exception of one or two local beach
gangs.

I also predict that there will be a dramatic rise in gang shootings as rival gangs
compete for turf and business. This will be done with almost complete disregard
for police attention, as they are well aware that the New South Wales Police has
to be rebuilt from the ground up. We have seen in the past three years the
phenomenon of drive-by shootings, Los Angeles style. Not only are the increasing
incidents a major cause of concern, but also the use of automatic weapons that
spray hundreds of rounds at their targets. This is virtually unprecedented in this
country.

In many ways, what we are seeing is the copying of Los Angeles gangs: the
Crips, the Bloods and others. The motor vehicles, the music, the dress codes, the
haircuts, the weaponry and the attitudes towards authority are almost identical.
These gangs in Los Angeles have been around for nearly thirty years and a
culture has grown around them. The culture surrounding the Middle Eastern
gangs is still in its infancy but the transition is not far away.
When William Bratton, the most innovative police commissioner of
modern times, took over as Los Angeles Police Chief recently, he declared
the gang problems there a national security problem, so serious that it
was beyond the resources of the state of California. There is a lesson for
us there, but we have to learn quickly, or this problem will overtake us.
The blame for the rise of the gangs in Los Angeles is being spread around -
politicians who refused to acknowledge that it was more than just an ethnic
brotherhood searching for their roots; police inaction because of political
constraints as well as incompetence; the civil liberties movement particularly
among the California superior courts that refused for decades to use lengthy
sentences as a deterrent to ethnic based crime on the basis that it discriminated
against minority groups. Whoever is to blame is now irrelevant, but they have left
a terrible legacy for the young generations of citizens of Los Angeles who have to
run the gauntlet of drug-crazed gangsters in the suburbs engaging in deadly
shoot outs and drive-bys nearly every day.

The similarities between the situation here, with the denial by the government of
the extent and the implications of Middle Eastern crime, and the early situation in
Los Angeles is frightening. What we saw with Cabramatta was the covering up of
a major problem by this government, who only acted when the game was up. It's
all about denial. If they can get away with covering up it saves them the worry of
making hard decisions and spending money on fixing problems that have been
allowed to fester for years. The rail system that Michael Costa now has to fix is
yet another example.

There is no investment in the future. It is about looking good day by day. The
Peter Ryan-style policing of day to day media spin is still present. No one seems
to have the courage to say that this is a problem that we need to fix before it gets
worse. The time when the Middle Eastern problem really takes root in this
city, the point from which there is no return, just like Los Angeles, is but
a few years away. The leaders of our government probably hope this will be
another government's fault and that they won't be around to see their legacy.
Maybe we should all buy a property in southern New Zealand.

If the biggest threat to our society is not addressed honestly and effectively
within the next two or three years it will take drastic action and enormous
resources to bring it under control - if that is even possible. The action we can
take now and the resources needed are a fraction of what it may cost in the
future. The potential cost in human terms is unimaginable.

There is also the serious possibility that some of these Middle Eastern
youth that are engaged in organised crime and have no regard for our
values and way of life may go a step further and engage in terrorist acts
against Australia. The ingredients are there already. It is but a small step
from urban terrorism to religious and political terrorism, as we have seen
with groups such as the IRA, where organised crime often became
interwoven with terrorism.

I do not want to paint a picture of gloom, but as a policeman I have seen the
destruction that gangs can wreak on innocent citizens who only want to live their
lives in peace. I just hope we can trust the people in government and the police
to ensure that we don't lose the values and the rights we have received from past
generations.

It is fitting that one day after Remembrance Day, when we look to what was
handed to us by the Second World War generation, probably the most
extraordinary generation of Australians in our short history, we should ask
ourselves: are we going to be remembered for handing a similar legacy to our
children and grandchildren, or are we going to be remembered as the generation
that did nothing about the scourge of gang violence and simply passed it on to.....


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> According to the Sydney Morning Herald, murderous non-white immigrants are running wild in the streets of Sydney, while Asians are replacing white Australians as the new "professional elite". I could easily post another hundred "disaster" articles just like these, but that would be 'off topic' for this forum.
> 
> See articles below.
> 
> ...


You really do need to do a bit of research on the people you are citing. Neither of those pieces are in fact EDITORIALS which are written by the editor and reflect the policy of the newspaper at large. OPINION pieces are written by hacks employed by said newspaper and are nothing more than the personal viewpoints of said columnists. Devine and Duffy are both far right wing political and cultural commentators both of whom are constantly being caught out making statements that play somewhat fast and easy with the truth. Let's be clear about this, no-one is running wild in the streets of Sydney, Asians are not replacing white Australians as the new professional elite. 
Last year there was a riot in a Sydney beachside suburb called Cronulla. There had been aggravation between groups of predominantly young men going on for some time. It is not unusual for surfers to have this proprietorial feeling towards the beach they surf, when I was young, in the fifties and sixties, (yes dear Phyllis I am not only an old fart but indeed an older fart than thee !) such violence was not only occuring but was much more common than it is today. We had the surfies and the skinheads, then the mods and the rockers. But Mad Miranda would have had trouble getting her knickers in a twist over those events cos they were all good anglo saxons going the biffo. The violence at Cronulla was started by white Australians and while the reprisals where just as uncalled for there was good and bad, right and wrong on both sides. Murderous ? Too much testosterone perhaps. Too much alcohol probably but murerous ? Nah, sorry. Mad Miranda ? You'll note that she even defends the Australian Nazi Party members who being the useless scum that they are are always ready for a brawl in defence of their so called "White Australia". Ok we may well have our differences but are you really prepared to side with someone who openly defends Nazis ? 
Duffy is simply a male equivalent of Devine, his arguments generally hold about as much water. His argument on this occasion is that because students of Asian background have been enjoying extremely high pass marks in our Univeristy entrance exams that is proof positive that Australia falling into the clutches of the yellow peril. To support that he cites a figure that says in 30 odd years we will start to see this happening. Let's be clear about this, these young kids are AUSTRALIANS. We are a mutli cultural society for good or bad. It doesn't matter that someones parents were born in China. If they were born here then they are Australian, no longer Chinese but Australian. For heavens sake , look at your own countries history. For the record the vast majority of ceos, politicians, general movers and shakers and indeed university students in Australia are still of Anglo Saxon or White European stock. No person of Asian or Middle Eastern background has yet to become Prime Minister of this country , indeed I am not aware of them even becoming members of of the national government cabinet and I tell you we have an odd lot in our various parliaments. 
I could pick both those articles apart paragraph by paragraph but I'm afraid I simply do not have either the time nor the inclination and for me it's beer o'clock.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

As I read the argument, capecodphyllis seems to be saying I am white and am not allowed in but you let in people who are not white, and look what problems it causes.

Let's not get perjorative and state the obvious.

Australia used to have a white Australia policy.

Australians have an intense national pride, so do Americans to cite only one example.

It is not uncommon for nations or people for that matter to have difficulties relating to those of different cultures or races.

Equally it is not unusual for this to be reflected in newspaper commentary where not everything is very insightful or considered. Yes no-one condones rape or mob violence, but one group achieving disproportionate academic success - come on, good on them. It is hardly unusual in that migrants are usually more resourceful and determined, let alone that the parents often struggle for acceptance of their skills and abilities, so encourage their children.

It is not unusual for a country to experience some inter-cultural or social difficulties. France and England come to mind but perhaps sexism, racism and culturalism are fairly universal. 

If that makes me a bleeding heart liberal or whatever else supposedly perjorative term someone may care to throw up so be it.

I have noticed that people tend to respond strongly and emotionally to perceived attacks on either their country or themselves. Therefore I refrain from either.

However a country has the right to restrict entry as it wishes. Capecodphyllis may feel that Australia has suffered as a result of declining her entry, despite her apparent ability to read. Others may disagree. Who knows?


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

chris_gee said:


> As I read the argument, capecodphyllis seems to be saying I am white and am not allowed in but you let in people who are not white, and look what problems it causes.


That's exactly what I was saying. Very perceptive.



chris_gee said:


> Australia used to have a white Australia policy.


Evil white racism! How dare they give preferential treatment to their own people. We SURE don't have to worry about that anymore!



chris_gee said:


> Australians have an intense national pride, so do Americans to cite only one example.


Translation: Many Australians and Americans suffer from a disease called xenophobia.



chris_gee said:


> It is not uncommon for nations or people for that matter to have difficulties relating to those of different cultures or races.


Translation: It is not so bad being gang raped by Moslems. It's nothing but a cultural misunderstanding. As was 9-11.



chris_gee said:


> Equally it is not unusual for this to be reflected in newspaper commentary where not everything is very insightful or considered.


Translation: Some reporters are racist.



chris_gee said:


> Yes no-one condones rape or mob violence, but one group achieving disproportionate academic success - come on, good on them.


Translation: Native Australians should replace themselves with smarter Asians.



chris_gee said:


> It is not unusual for a country to experience some inter-cultural or social difficulties. France and England come to mind but perhaps sexism, racism and culturalism are fairly universal.


Translation: All of the problems are the result of white racism.



chris_gee said:


> If that makes me a bleeding heart liberal...


Yes it does.



chris_gee said:


> ...or whatever else supposedly perjorative term someone may care to throw up so be it.


Take note: Chris is blind to left-wing "perjorative" terms. (i.e. 'dimwit', 'village idiot')



chris_gee said:


> have noticed that people tend to respond strongly and emotionally to perceived attacks on either their country or themselves. Therefore I refrain from either.


Yes. Your attacks are much more subtle.



chris_gee said:


> Capecodphyllis may feel that Australia has suffered as a result of declining her entry.... Others may disagree.


Translation: I hate Cape Cod Phyllis but can't come out and say so. I cannot make the same mistake that TDW did - that is, express my liberal hate and rage - because that would reveal the utter hypocrisy of my philosophy in which tolerance is supposed the centerpiece. TDW spilled the beans - he made it obvious that the only kind of diversity we oppose is 'diversity of opinion'. That was a tactical error on the part of my fine comrade. Since we progressives have no real tolerance for people who disagree with us, the best strategy is to demonize Phyllis in a more subtle fashion. To attempt to ostracize and marginalize her. Then, if successful, others will take the bait and join in.

Post revolution we will arrange for Cape Cod Phyllis to be picked up by the thought police and taken to a gulag for re-education.

Power to the pimples!

Power to the pimples!










<grin>


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> I could pick both those articles apart paragraph by paragraph but I'm afraid I simply do not have...


I have no doubt.

Liberals always apply a method of analysis that automatically gives the answers they want. It's called 'Deconstruction', which essentially takes any text, removes all meaning from it, and re-inserts any meaning that best serves the revolution.

In TDW's world of Political Correctness certain groups are _a priori_ good - feminist women, (only feminist women, non-feminist women like myself are deemed not to exist) blacks (blacks who are not liberals are smeared as 'sell-outs' and 'Oreos'), Asians, homosexuals, etc. These groups are determined to be "victims," and therefore automatically good regardless of what any of them do. Similarly, white males are determined automatically to be evil, thereby becoming the equivalent of the "bourgeoisie" under communism.

Since reality contradicts liberal ideology, reality must be forbidden. It must become forbidden to acknowledge the reality of Australia's immigration disaster. People must be forced to live a lie, and since people are naturally reluctant to live a lie, since they naturally use their ears and eyes to look outside and say, "Wait a minute. This isn't true. I can see it isn't true," the power of the state must be put behind the demand to live a lie. That is why Political Correctness combined with liberal extremism and intolerance invariably creates a totalitarian state.

These people see themselves as a cultural and intellectual elite, and have, without consultation with voters, decided on certain social policies relating to immigration. They will allow no debate on these policies. Anybody raising the issues is howled down and savagely vilified. Muslim and Asian immigration levels have become "no-go" areas. The liberals defend their agenda with the fervour of religious fanatics.

Australia is in the throws of the greatest and direst transformation in its history. They are becoming an ideological state, a country with an official state ideology enforced by the power of the state. With the passage of Orwellian "hate speech" laws they now have people serving jail sentences for political thoughts. And peoplle like TDW are moving to expand that category ever further. The persecution of anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is a part of it - and it's exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it's coming to Australia. And native Australians don't recognize it because they call it Political Correctness and laugh it off. My message today is that it's not funny, it's here, it's growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that native Australians have ever defined as their freedom and their culture.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Phyllis,
Remember that I'm a bleeding heart liberal, we call 'em Chardonnay Socialists down her btw. Peace love happiness and all that. Not allowed to hate anyone, gets you drummed out of BHL club real quick. Errrrr but Miranda D ? Hmmm, now that's something I could not say I love. Nah, I don't hate her, never met her, maybe quite charming in her own way.....for a rabid rottweiller that is.  

Ok, so I've been a tad rude, tis true but really most of what you contend is exaggeration by the media. Yes there have been some outbreaks of racially motivated violence but not just by asians and arabs against whites. The reverse is as commonplace and nothing that has ever occurred in Australia comes close to the LA riots of a few years back.

Yes I'm a liberal (small L). I'm 55 years old, of anglo parentage (part english, part american, part irish), Australian born and parts of my family have been here since the early 19th century. I can honestly say that in my entire life I have never been discriminated against because of the colour of my skin. I count amongst my friends, acquaintances and employees whites of sundry persuasion and ethnicity, blacks (mainly indigenous Australian) but also a couple of Americans, asian and arab. Because I have seen over the years so much discrimination against other people because of their skin colour or gender it does get up my nose when someone tries to make out that Australia is somehow discriminatory against the one skin colour that has never suffered discrimination in this country. Well, that is unless you were Irish in the 19th century and then the English would have dumped on you big time.

You may be pissed off with your supposed rejection but if there was discrimination against you then it was ageist and perhaps careerist but not racist. 

ps - the White Australia policy was not aimed at simply keeping out non whites. It was predominantly aimed at keeping Australia anglo and to some extent non Catholic. It was dumped through the demands of an essentially , at the time, white Australian population.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> I have no doubt.
> 
> My message today is that it's not funny, it's here, it's growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that native Australians have ever defined as their freedom and their culture.


CCP,
You seem to have edited in the Quadrant article by Tim Priest after I'd already replied re Miranda and Duffy. Have you considered simply posting the links ? That post must have set some sort of record for the longest post in Sailnet history. By the way if you so love Quadrant I recommend my old mate Paddy McGuiness and you really should bone up on Piers Ackerman.

Really you can't expect me to comment on every line by a bunch of people for whom I have not the smallest shred of respect. As for your comment above I have systematically torn down every argument or spurious claim you have made yet you pick one throwaway line to quote. Sorry , not good enough but oh well once more into the breach dear friends.

Feminists, Asian, Blacks, Homosexuals. My answer is that in general I judge people by who they are not what they are. After all it's the bleedin' 'eart liberal fing to do. No wot I mean ? Nah, probably not. As I said in a previous rant you quote someone who espouses support for members of the Nazi Party. Maybe you should have added Jews to your list. Oh, as for hating white males ? Wrong yet again. Some of 'em I loath but once again not because they are white. What's more I must be about the only red hot commo, audi driving, company director, ceo in christendom but that's a cross I'll just have to bear. Now , what did I miss ? Oh yes, non feminist women don't exist. You wanker TD, you just spent half the day talking to yourself, that way lies madness my son. Wake up to yourself. So tomorrow, sell the boat, sell the car, sell the house, sell the shares, close down the business and distribute the wealth amongst the poor. Holy sheep **** Batman, you're not a commy you're Jesus Christ reincarnate.

By the way, what happened to everything you said being tongue in cheek ? Mefinks u wos tellin porkies !

Anyway, the floor is your's. Enough is enough. You can crap on with your fascist ideals from here to eternity if you so wish. From here on in , feminist or not, you are to this little brown wombat , ignored. Should have thought of that earlier on. Could have saved myself all that typing if I'd just left it at "dill" and be done with it.

Ps - **** it, the poor can go sod themself, I'm not selling the boat.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chris_gee said:


> However a country has the right to restrict entry as it wishes. Capecodphyllis may feel that Australia has suffered as a result of declining her entry, despite her apparent ability to read. Others may disagree. Who knows?


Chris, Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
Regards
TD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Capecodphyllis seems to be a bit peeved and irrational about Australia, and this is probably good evidence to their good judgement in not wanting her in their country. Any chance we can get this back off of politics, which belongs in FIGHT CLUB, and back on to sailing-related matters. 

Whether or not Australia discriminates against elderly caucasian women has little to do with their apparently draconian enforcement of a 96-hour minimum notice for clearance into the country.


----------



## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

Yeah, I got a sailing question. This chip on my shoulder, should I rig her as a sloop or a cutter? snicker ...


----------



## freddy4888 (Nov 16, 2006)

can't we all just get along and go sailing instead


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

Fer sure freddy! May I borrow your icebreaker?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Capecodphyllis seems to be a bit peeved and irrational about Australia, and this is probably good evidence to their good judgement in not wanting her in their country. Any chance we can get this back off of politics, which belongs in FIGHT CLUB, and back on to sailing-related matters.
> 
> Whether or not Australia discriminates against elderly caucasian women has little to do with their apparently draconian enforcement of a 96-hour minimum notice for clearance into the country.


Thoroughly agree and apologise to you all (Phyliss you are excused) for my ranting. Tend to get a bit hot under the collar sometimes. Suit of sackcloth and ashes has been donned and self flagellation will be the order of the day. WooHoo !! (I know, I'm a sick puppy) 

I still have some concern that the story that started this thread is a bit of a media beat up. We shall see.

Now, SD, the poor old dear is only 47 mate. Bit hard to call her elderly. Jaysus , from where I sit 47 is prime of life. Ahhhh, those were the good old days or so I'm told. Don't remember much past lunchtime anymore. Is that lovely young Kennedy fella still President ?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

cockeyedbob said:


> Yeah, I got a sailing question. This chip on my shoulder, should I rig her as a sloop or a cutter? snicker ...


Mine is rigged as a Cat Ketch. I call her a Freedom Fryer.


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> Chris, Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
> Regards
> TD


Oh my. Now you're feeling sorry for yourself!


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> Phyllis,
> Remember that I'm a bleeding heart liberal, we call 'em Chardonnay Socialists down her btw. Peace love happiness and all that. Not allowed to hate anyone, gets you drummed out of BHL club real quick.


Reeeally? Not allowed to hate anyone? Whodathunkit!


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> My answer is that in general I judge people by who they are not what they are. After all it's the bleedin' 'eart liberal fing to do. No wot I mean ? Nah, probably not.


Who are you to judge anyone? If you want open borders say so. But don't call those who disagree "racists". Have I tried to shut you up by smearing you? No, that's a tactic of the Left.



tdw said:


> As I said in a previous rant you quote someone who espouses support for members of the Nazi Party. Maybe you should have added Jews to your list.


My alleged hate for Jews and support for Nazism will come as a terrible shock to my Jewish mother. As far as a list, I don't have a list - that would be you - you're the one with the list. And it's a very long one, obviously.



tdw said:


> Oh, as for hating white males ? Wrong yet again.


If you were a Jew we'd call you a "self-hating Jew". Truly pathetic.



tdw said:


> Some of 'em I loath but once again not because they are white.


I understand. You loath lots of people. I get it. I get it!



tdw said:


> What's more I must be about the only red hot commo, audi driving, company director, ceo in christendom but that's a cross I'll just have to bear.


You're a CEO and a company director. Translation: I'm not as dumb as I sound.



tdw said:


> Now , what did I miss ? Oh yes, non feminist women don't exist. You wanker TD,


That pretty much sums it up, TD. You are a wanker.



tdw said:


> you just spent half the day talking to yourself, that way lies madness my son. Wake up to yourself. So tomorrow, sell the boat, sell the car, sell the house, sell the shares, close down the business and distribute the wealth amongst the poor. Holy sheep **** Batman, you're not a commy you're Jesus Christ reincarnate.


You're losing your mind. Did I do that?



tdw said:


> By the way, what happened to everything you said being tongue in cheek ? Mefinks u wos tellin porkies !


That all changed when the personal insults started flying in one direction - to the right.



tdw said:


> Anyway, the floor is your's. Enough is enough. You can crap on with your fascist ideals


Well well well. We finally get the evidence. The word "fascist" is only used by indoctrinated members of the The Party.. Thanks for confirming it, comrade. Now I understand why you are so damned angry. So furious. No one likes to be outed.



tdw said:


> from here to eternity if you so wish. From here on in , feminist or not, you are to this little brown wombat , ignored.


Typical reaction of the extreme Left. Smear and run for cover. Smear, smear, smear; run, run, run. Take cover you little baby.



tdw said:


> Should have thought of that earlier on. Could have saved myself all that typing if I'd just left it at "dill" and be done with it.


One last parting insult. You just can't help yourself. I understand. You are not in control of your emotions. I'm more a man than you are. How sad.



tdw said:


> Ps - **** it,


Please don't hang yourself. You might consider calling a suicide hotline.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

tdw said:


> Now, SD, the poor old dear is only 47 mate. Bit hard to call her elderly. Jaysus , from where I sit 47 is prime of life. Ahhhh, those were the good old days or so I'm told. Don't remember much past lunchtime anymore. Is that lovely young Kennedy fella still President ?


I didn't call her elderly...but any conclusions you jump to are your own fault. 

BTW, all elderly means is "advanced in years". And to me... 47 is a bit elderly...  as I'm still in my 30s...


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> Ok, so I've been a tad rude,


My, you're kind to yourself. Too bad you can't extend that sentiment to those who question you in any way. That makes you a "thought Nazi".



tdw said:


> tis true but really most of what you contend is exaggeration by the media.


Most, but not all? That's quite an admission. That must have hurt.



tdw said:


> Yes there have been some outbreaks of racially motivated violence but not just by asians and arabs against whites. The reverse is as commonplace and nothing that has ever occurred in Australia comes close to the LA riots of a few years back.


I agree.



tdw said:


> Yes I'm a liberal (small L). I'm 55 years old, of anglo parentage (part english, part american, part irish), Australian born and parts of my family have been here since the early 19th century.


Are we supposed to be impressed that you are 100 percent, certified white? Now who's the racist?



tdw said:


> I can honestly say that in my entire life I have never been discriminated against because of the colour of my skin.


Well. That settles it. You haven't been corn-holed by a gang of Moslems. Lucky you.



tdw said:


> I count amongst my friends, acquaintances and employees whites of sundry persuasion and ethnicity, blacks (mainly indigenous Australian) but also a couple of Americans, asian and arab.


Well then. That makes you an expert on "minorities". Let me guess. One takes out your trash. One cuts your lawn. One wipes your baby's ass. One scrubs the barnacles off your boat, while another drives you to work. That's mighty white of you. No wonder you feel so guilty about "white racism".



tdw said:


> Because I have seen over the years so much discrimination against other people because of their skin colour or gender


Here comes the violin. You're heart is bleeding for the victims of white racism. You're heart is not bleeding for the hundreds of Australian girls gang-raped by the "downtroddened Moslems".



tdw said:


> You may be pissed off with your supposed rejection but if there was discrimination against you then it was ageist and perhaps careerist but not racist.


I have expressed my opinion. You hate my opinion, and, strangely, twist the argument into me being pissed off. That's called projection. I love Australia. And I'll visited my many friends there whenever I want. Regardless of how you feel about it.



tdw said:


> ps - the White Australia policy was not aimed at simply keeping out non whites. It was predominantly aimed at keeping Australia anglo and to some extent non Catholic. It was dumped through the demands of an essentially , at the time, white Australian population.


Deconstruction. You can't help it.


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Capecodphyllis seems to be a bit peeved and irrational about Australia, and this is probably good evidence to their good judgement in not wanting her in their country. Any chance we can get this back off of politics, which belongs in FIGHT CLUB, and back on to sailing-related matters.
> 
> Whether or not Australia discriminates against elderly caucasian women has little to do with their apparently draconian enforcement of a 96-hour minimum notice for clearance into the country.


Sailing Dog and TDW say that I am not wanted in Australia. And that's a good thing.

Hmmmm. Really? Australia doesn't want me? That's a good thing?

More nasty, liberal hate. No one can hate like a liberal.


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> ...tend to get a bit hot under the collar sometimes. ... (I know, I'm a sick puppy)


Thanks for admitting it.



tdw said:


> Now, SD, the poor old dear is only 47 mate. Bit hard to call her elderly.


That's right. Keep it up. Smear, smear, smear.

I enjoy communicating with hate-filled neo-Marxists like TDW, whose insouciance, ignorance and arrogance delude them into believing that they are saying something good and true, when in fact all they are doing is palavering the Party Line. Yaaawn. Which isn't really a line so much as it is a technique -- smear, smear, smear -- which is the very best way of keeping folks from asking whether the people they are smearing are telling the TRUTH. Yes, TDW walks in the footsteps of that great statesman Vlad-the-Impaler Lenin, who specifically formulated this strategy. And let's face it -- Lenin was a smart guy. In fact, he was so good that Hitler patterned his very regime after Lenin's. Betcha didn't know that, didja TDW?

So what is the bee in L'il TDW's bonnet that has caused him to light into me with his admitted diatribe about 'racists' and 'fascists' and other slurs that he would never in a million years use against the higgeldy minorities of the rising tide of illegal, often sickly hordes that have reduced once-great cities like Sydney into crime-infested Third-World outposts?

The answer is L'il TDW is not concerned about Australia -- not concerned about the crime or the evaporation of the culture -- rather TDW is upset that someone wants to SPEAK about it, and in fact wants to make a case -- and a very good case can be made, I assure you -- that the blame should be laid right at the feet of people like TDW.

What L'il TDW is, then, is a monkey on a chain, chattering on and on about matters of which he either knows nothing or cares nothing, handing out his ignorance to passers-by and getting a little pat-on-the-back in return. Maybe a better way to put it is to say that L'il TDW is a whore -- a sort of male gigolo who gets paid for screwing native Australians.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I didn't call her elderly...but any conclusions you jump to are your own fault.
> 
> BTW, all elderly means is "advanced in years". And to me... 47 is a bit elderly...  as I'm still in my 30s...


Now if only I was advanced in wisdom as much as years.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

capecodphyllis said:


> Sailing Dog and TDW say that I am not wanted in Australia. And that's a good thing.
> 
> Hmmmm. Really? Australia doesn't want me? That's a good thing?
> 
> More nasty, liberal hate. No one can hate like a liberal.


*You said you weren't wanted in Australia*...and your incessant ranting seems to justify their decision. Also, I never said it was a good thing... I merely stated that it seemed to be good judgement on the part of the Aussies, given your rather irrational writings here.

I am merely stating facts and making observations...*any inferences of hate are your own...not mine.*


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> *You said you weren't wanted in Australia*...and your incessant ranting seems to justify their decision. Also, I never said it was a good thing... I merely stated that it seemed to be good judgement on the part of the Aussies, given your rather irrational writings here.
> 
> I am merely stating facts and making observations...*any inferences of hate are your own...not mine.*


You are upset because I will not do what _you_ would do in my place - that is, lay down like a dog, belly up, in the face of a vicious personal attack.

I don't roll over, rover.

(Notice that TDWs incessant ranting cannot be detected by Sailing Dogs radar.)


----------



## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> your incessant ranting seems to justify their decision. I merely stated that it seemed to be good judgement on the part of the Aussies, given your rather irrational writings here.


Smear, smear, smear.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

ccp- 

I don't get upset at the actions of raving lunatics... Your ranting on this thread has been quite excessive... TDW's responses have been pretty funny... especially given the reaction they get from you... 

You're the one foaming at the mouth... I was just observing that your attacks on the Australian government and country as a whole seem to be out of spite, since they wouldn't accept you as a candidate for immigration.


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## Morgan3820 (Dec 21, 2006)

What ever ya'll do to visiting yachts, it is betterthan what the US government does to visiting yachts(indiginous yachts for that matter). And heaven help you if you just came from Cuba. I think that we all need to remember that most people from both countries are kind and helpful and are generally embarrased by their governments behavior. 
For the record I think 'Strines are great and would love to come visit but could you do something about all of those people killing critters first. Are your rabbits venomous too?


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> ccp-
> 
> I don't get upset at the actions of raving lunatics... Your ranting on this thread has been quite excessive... TDW's responses have been pretty funny... especially given the reaction they get from you...
> 
> You're the one foaming at the mouth... I was just observing that your attacks on the Australian government and country as a whole seem to be out of spite, since they wouldn't accept you as a candidate for immigration.


You are very upset. Tell the truth. You're hands were shaking and your face was flush with rage as you piddled the above on your keyboard.

Of course, you have it exactly backwards, dog. TDW was and still is foaming at the mouth with rabid rage. His replies were as vicious and personal as they could possibly have been. The admitted wanker called me every name in the book.

You apply the same technique (i.e. raving lunatic).

Smear and hide.


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## ccam (Dec 17, 2006)

Why did Australia vote to ban all of their firearms back in the 80's or 90's? Are there problems/attitudes now a result?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

OK...Phyllis/SD and TDW...you've all got your shots in and this is deteriorating into just name calling. Call it even and walk away.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> OK...Phyllis/SD and TDW...you've all got your shots in and this is deteriorating into just name calling. Call it even and walk away.


Aw gee mister. Don't be such a spoilsport. Anyway, she started it. I wos jist sitten ear mindin me own bizness when she came in and started ittin me. and she nicked me icecream. Snot fair. Never get ta have no fun anymore. Wots more if she says I started it she is fibbin. A big boy did it and ran away. I sawd him.

(Cool Cam - Plug had already been pulled.)


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

So that's what they mean when they say "don't feed the animals"! Wow! Most people just get depressed in winter.
Back to the topic though, What's the rule for reporting in to American Customs and Immigration? 48hrs? Or is that just for commercial traffic?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

yotphix said:


> So that's what they mean when they say "don't feed the animals"! Wow! Most people just get depressed in winter.
> Back to the topic though, What's the rule for reporting in to American Customs and Immigration? 48hrs? Or is that just for commercial traffic?


I had a look at US Customs yesterday to see what the story was and there doesn't actually appear to be any time limit at all. You rock on up, make sure you are in an entry port and say G'Day or Howdy Doodie or some such. Maybe I missed the 48hr reference.


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Now that I think about it it only applies to larger vessels or commercial or something like that. I think I read a story in reference to luxury charter yachts.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

yotphix said:


> So that's what they mean when they say "don't feed the animals"! Wow! Most people just get depressed in winter.


I don't think that Sailing Dog is REALLY an animal. That's just what he calls himself.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

tdw said:


> Aw gee mister. Don't be such a spoilsport. Anyway, she started it. I wos jist sitten ear mindin me own bizness when she came in and started ittin me. and she nicked me icecream. Snot fair. Never get ta have no fun anymore. Wots more if she says I started it she is fibbin. A big boy did it and ran away. I sawd him.
> 
> (Cool Cam - Plug had already been pulled.)


Yeah. Cool Cam. Really cool, Cam.

Seems that TD is lookin' for a shoulder to cry on. Waaaaa waaa waaa. "That animal hurt my feeeeelins. Everyone pleaaase feel sorreee for me, waaa waaa -- I've been offended by that animal. Please hold my hand."


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

ccam said:


> Why did Australia vote to ban all of their firearms back in the 80's or 90's? Are there problems/attitudes now a result?


What? You're not absolutely sure that banning handguns is good? Better not mention that. Some of the others won't like it. You're likely to be attacked as a "fascist".

On the other hand, this may be an opportunity for a certain sailor to chime in with some more name-calling. He can't get enough.

Please, no more rants about guns being banned! <grin>


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## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

Hey, hey guys.
SETTLE DOWN PLEASE>>>
When I first made this post it was to voice my complaint about the way WE in Australia were treating the arrival of yachtspeople coming to our shores for a bit of R&R.
I wanted you to contact the Australian Consulate or Embassies in your own countries and make a complaint about it and try to have a few things changed.
Dead set mate!
So far I have not put a single word in because I have been away but now I feel I must before we all go to war against each other.

Australia is no more racist than any other place. 
We all live in ghettos except that some ghettos are better than others. We all have neighbours that cause problems.
BIG DEAL.

Can we get back to COMPLAINING to people who just might be able to do something about it.
I feel this legistation was aimed at commercial vessels and not at yachts.(Any Aussie politicians reading this, here is a way out for you to right this wrong)

Can we try to get this repealed so we can all go on and enjoy what we do best. Sailing, good company and a drink or two at the end of the day.

Regards
JIM.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hi Jim,
Yeah , well, it did get ever so slightly out of hand for a while there didn't it ? Not to mention ever so slightly off topic. "Ever so slightly" as in the iceberg only ever so slightly sank the Titanic.  Anyway, it's all done and dusted now. 

I've said it before in this thread but I'm still concerned about this whole issue. While the 96 hour period seems somewhat draconian something doesn't quite ring true in the story about the yacht mentioned. Maybe it is bureaucracy gone mad, maybe it is incompetence in the Australian Customs Department, maybe the magistrate who heard the case had a rotten hangover and a grudge against the dutch, I don't know but something still seems a bit odd. Wish I could see the transcripts.

Cheers

TDW


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

Here's the problem as I see it. Although the laws are part it, it's more an issue of the people who enforce the visitor rules.

As a former U.S. military officer, I can assure you that there is a personality type known as the "Authoritarian". The Authoritarian worships authority and has certain psychological needs that must be met, or they go bonkers. 

1. They need higher-ups to tell them what to think and do. (Incapable of independent thought.)

2. They need praise from the authority figures that they worship, as well as the public.

3. They deeply resent people of a lesser rank (cruisers) who question them, and often become violent.

Many customs officials are Authoritarians. Although that doesn't make them bad people, one must keep a sharp eye out.

Example: 

Here's comes Johnny Authoritarian to greet you as you arrive in Australian waters. He jumps onto your boat as if it were his own, and begins to bark orders. It doesn't take much to piss Johnny off, so just smile. Remember - anything can set him off. 

If you gush with admiration and apply praise, Johnny will be pacified, so apply all of the praise that your stomach can endure. Whatever you do, don't be sarcastic, or 'diss' Johnny, that will just cause things to spiral out of control -- he may invent infractions, which higher-ups (judges, etc.) will accept as fact. After all, calling a law enforcement officer a liar can be a career-ending act.

This same strategy should be applied when dealing with the California Highway Patrol, and certain other people in positions of authority.

Also consider the frustration. These customs officers are given so many contradictory instructions on how to handle visitors - there is so much politics involved - it's a wonder that they can function at all. And they are most likely overworked. Certainly under-appreciated. At least in their own minds.


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Oh no!.....Here we go....


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

yotphix said:


> Oh no!.....Here we go....


Oh no we don't !!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I know I've been a tad sceptical about this topic. I'd only looked at the Polish couples tale of woe prior to last evening when I had a good read of all the horror stories re Australian customs. There is still a niggling feeling in the back of my mind that someone is grinding axes but if half of those stories are true then Queensland seems to be living up to it's reputation as the Deep North. 

But is it just Queensland ? Perhaps. I don't see any of these reports coming from incidents occuring in NSW or the NT. Is that purely by chance ? Possibly but Queensland officialdom has a reputation for heavy handedness going back many years even though Queenslanders themselves are by and large an easygoing mob. 

Previously, customs was always pretty active up north as it is the obvious coast to land smuggled goods, primarily dope of course. Border protection is now seemingly more important than drugs but anyone who could be mistaken for an (ageing) hippy is still presumably public enemy number one. One could also suspect that with the mongol hoards not seeming all that interested in actually invading Oz there are a few too many customs goons out there with too much time on their hands.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Passing on Information*

*Sailor Jim has asked me to post this information thinking I knew what I was doing. For some reason my ability to post attachments has gone out the window so I'm doing a cut and paste from Jims email. Following this will be another post with more information which was a letter to Bob Norson from a retired barrister.*
*I'm more than happy to help out here but I do stress that this is information I'm passing on and I'm not neccessarily in agreement with it all. Nor, for that matter am I disagreeing with any of the content.*

*"From:* Bob Norson [mailto:email address edited out by tdw] 
*Sent:* Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:22 AM
*To:* Jim H (sailorjim99)
*Subject:* Re: check sailnet

greetings jim

Good on you for trying to keep the mob on topic. Forums seem to be a poor place at times to bring up a serious subject. You are tougher than me! I think a lot of people that would like to chat are being chased out by the more aggresive culture on some of them. I love company but I posted a brief message on another forum to alert sailors about the customs issue and I got flamed hard! I figured out who it was and doesn't surprise me that the individulal attacked me but still, I got a lot on my mind and don't need the stress of duking it out with a nutter. Actually I was thinking of starting a forum of my own. With rules of engagement that might lure back those who like debate but like me, prefer to avoid the name calling and persoanl attacks... entertaining as they can be to some but the fact is the loudest wins but that don't make them right! Course... I watch question time and see where people get it....

on my way south in day or two to interview the american couple that just got slammed by customs... they are out about $50,000 so far, thier retirement wrecked and future uncertain. The closer you get to these people the more it becomes impossible to take the freak shows that support the government on this just because they love to be contrary....

I atttach a letter from a retired barrister/ solicitior

Cheers Mate!

Bob"


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Passing on Information (Part Two)*

This is a cut and paste of letter to Bob Norson from Chris Ayers of Lady Lonsdale. Again this is posted on behalf of SailorJim99

"Brutal Customs ­ A Real and Present Danger to the Yachting Community

I read with concern the articles "Brutal Customs" or "like old Communist Russia" published in TCP #23 2007. The threat posed to overseas yachtspeople as well as local cruising folk is serious and represents a profound abuse of human rights and freedom of travel. My short advice to overseas visitors is, ­ Give Australia a miss. Go somewhere else and tell the government­ that"s "where the bloody hell we are"! Take your foreign currency to administratively friendlier places. 

Unlike the police, who, usually in my experience, respect the law they enforce and are trained professionals with an understanding of criminal law and of civil rights, Customs and AQIS personnel tend to be largely amateurs with ostensibly enormous power but little knowledge of the actual law they attempt to enforce. They are, in my experience having worked with the APS, basically public servants, transferred often from other Australian Public Service departments with little understanding of the complexities of international law, criminal law and maritime law and in these days of tight budgets given minimal training. Of course, those that handle the vessels are required to have the appropriate maritime certificates of competence but from what I have seen their competence in actual boat handling leaves a little to be desired.

However, make no mistake they have the power to board, seize property, detain and question people without the legal niceties required by the police. Treat them with caution and great suspicion.

The 96 hour rule requiring notice of entry is both impractical and unworkable. In any other environment, commonsense would see it as an absurdity. But the Australian Customs and AQIS are strangers to commonsense. The Magistrates before whom "offenders" are forced to appear are also limited in their knowledge of the legal complexities posed by this branch of the law (they have to deal with everything from drunk-driving to DVA's and now international law?), and unless the defendant is represented by a legal expert in maritime law and administrative procedure, the chances of the facts being properly determined by the law are limited and the bellicose voice of the prosecution will prevail. No, justice is not done nor even considered.

In a perfect world, common law rules of natural justice clearly state that a person cannot be denied a right to know the case against them (Kanda v Government of the Federation of Malaya [1962] AC 322), that they have a right a fair hearing (Russel; v Duke of Norfolk [1949] 1 All ER 109), that any law that is so absurd that it cannot be reasonably complied with by a reasonable person is a breach of natural justice (Associated Provincial Picture Houses Ltd v Wednesbury Corporation [1948] 1 KB 223) and finally a person cannot be expected to comply with a law that cannot be reasonably and practically complied with (Cooper v Wansworth Board of Works (1863) 14 CBNS 180). But all these nicely reasoned decisions may be overturned by statute law. Then there are international rights, such as the Articles under the Declaration of Human Rights. But these have to be imported into domestic law where they readily acquire exemptions giving the state supreme power. We are not in a perfect world I regret to say. And not in a just world.

So what do you do? Avoid confrontation where possible. Keep out of Australia ­ after all, that¹s the message of the 96 hour rule. If not, then collect your own evidence. Write down everything said. If possible tape record all conversations (mobile phones can be used to do this) and photograph what you can. Although I can't advocate it and wouldn¹t dream for a moment of suggesting it, the use of a hidden miniature digital camera linked by Bluetooth to your laptop sending an email directly to a third party recipient, might do the trick. As to the admissibility in court of such evidence?­ Well, stranger things happen. Remember the authorities have all the power, the force and the implied threat of violence. You are alone with them on the boat with no witnesses and they know that. To have a chance of defending yourself, you simply must have a record, ­your own record ­ of what happened. Pad and paper are the safest. They are also the most obvious. Often these interrogators feel threatened by you writing everything down. They may threaten severe penalties if you continue to write down what they say. Then they will say it is not necessary, you will be given a copy of everything&#8230; oh yeah. And what about an interpreter if English is a second language to you? These guys are not cops ­ they see no limit to their power. But never be deceived by the "laid-back" or "good-cop-bad-cop" posturing your interrogators may adopt. They are not paying a social call. Admit nothing and deny everything. Trust no-one. Trust anyone in uniform even less. Finally, contact the consulate or embassy of your country of origin. Ask them for legal assistance.

But safest of all is to stay away. There are plenty of friendlier cruising areas still around in this world. They need your cash more than Australia it seems.

Chris Ayres
Lady Lonsdale"


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

I think all this matter is not entirely clear. I have spent a little time looking at it but cannot claim to have looked at every aspect.

According to the Australian Customs website, 96 hours notice of arrival is required by phone, fax or e-mail. It no longer says less than 10 days. Seemingly this applies from June 2006. However a master is only required to give 48 hours notice according to the same site, and the person in charge of a yacht is deemed to be master.

However Infringement notice guidelines under a CEO instrument of approval dated 15 June 2006 specifically state notice more than 10 days before is an offence.

However it says a defence is 3.2.6 a mistaken belief as to the facts, where that mistaken belief is reasonable, and a reasonable effort has been made to comply.

In one case the couple reportedly enquired at an Australian consulate, and were given outdated information saying that in addition to fax or e-mail they could give notice by VHF 48 hours before. They elected to do this option but took it as reporting literally 48 hours before. However they were out of range even were this option available. That would appear a defence.

In the Sohcahtoa case they relied on an out of date guidebook saying they had to give three hours notice by VHF which they did.

In the third case they also believed that they had to give at least 3 hours notice by vhf and contacted them twice 12 and 8 hours before. As their passage had been 13 days from NZ they would have been unable to comply with the 10 day rule. 

Another yacht learned of the requirements on passage and had another yacht send the details by e-mail but unfortunately omitted the passport numbers. While he was warned and had to pay duty on his boat having been to Australia before he appears not to have been told this was refundable if the boat left within a year.

The ten day issue aside and whether this still applies and is in the law or has been changed, in at least one case a reasonable effort had been made to comply. However a check on entry requirements would seem prudent in any case as obviously requirements change. Obviously visa are a factor.

Further there was some talk of proof of an e-mail having been sent was required, not just a copy which could be faked but a copy sent to oneself so it could be independently verified. In the Customs small print there seems to be a requirement for signature verification on the e-mail but this may only apply to cargo – I didn’t check that detail.

The advice on dealing with bureaucrats in whatever country seems sound. It is worth remembering that in each case Customs would have been advised by the clearing country, and I believe the vessel would have been monitored by satellite. Therefore it is not a case of a totally unknown vessel arriving. Nor as in the case of the Rainbow Warrior of enemy agents arriving on a yacht having made an unauthorized landfall.

Of interest is that NZ has the similar rules of at least 48 hours notice. While the act says in a form of notification approved in writing by the CEO the site says by fax or e-mail, using the forms provided. It also requires notice to MAF. Information packs are available at various centres through the Pacific Islands or on-line.

This is lengthy but it seemed desirable to try to put the incidents in perspective.


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## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

*Thanks to tdw*

Thank-you tdw for posting that info for me. One day I am going to learn this here new fangled contraption that replaced pen and paper.

I will keep this post updated as things progress.
My main ***** is that this is JUST NOT AUSTRALIAN.
This is not the way to treat people who took a decision to come here and have a visit.

Fair winds to you all
JIm.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I don't think you'll find many on here who think it is the people of any particular country that are responsible for the negative impressions that sometimes arise in dealing with the various and often, illogical seeming, regulations and their attendant bureaucracies, that they encounter. I think you'll find that in most countries that the people who administer the regulations, that too often are formulated by politicans pandering for votes, without any real knowledge of their ultimate effect, are decent folks, put in a position (as said above) that they aren't really qualified for. So while we may get a negative impression of the government of a country, it isn't necessarily what we think of the people of that country.

No dramas mate, it happens everywhere to one extent or another.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Generally, the actions of a government should be separated from the actions of the people or citizens of the given country, unless it can be clearly and undeniably proven that those same citizens are directly responsible for the actions the government has taken. 

For instance, Bush's War on Fundamentalism is not something that all Americans approve of... in fact, it can be questioned whether he was even legitimately elected in 2000 or re-elected in 2004, given the peculiarities of both those elections. 

That said, I am glad that my friends abroad don't tar me with the brush of being a Bush supporter and responsible for the violations of human rights and terrorist like actions committed by his administration.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

SD...as an "outsider" I can tell you that generally in most of the World, (few exceptions) people tend to like the Americans, and can live with them without a problem..even in Muslim countries..and specially Europe.

Its the Government of the USA that is sometimes "unliked" (when it is and where it is)...and most people know about it...of course you allways get the idiots (who doesn't have idiots??) that tend to mix things that become "dangerous"...but generally speaking American population is liked. We know you don't have a choice, and that every 4 or 8 years you get a "new" star.....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> SD...as an "outsider" I can tell you that generally in most of the World, (few exceptions) people tend to like the Americans, and can live with them without a problem..even in Muslim countries..and specially Europe.
> 
> Its the Government of the USA that is sometimes "unliked" (when it is and where it is)...and most people know about it...of course you allways get the idiots (who doesn't have idiots??) that tend to mix things that become "dangerous"...but generally speaking American population is liked. We know you don't have a choice, and that every 4 or 8 years you get a "new" star.....


And I thank God every day that the idiot in office can't be re-elected again. I don't think our country's international reputation, goodwill, and economy would be able to stand it.

Unfortunately, whomever is elected next will have to clean up the international quagmire that is left from Bush's War on Fundamentalism. GWB said he wanted to make the world safer for Americans, but I don't believe that is the case. His War on Fundamentalism has made Americans far greater targets than ever before.

Couple that with his lousy, short-sighted and plain stupid implementation of RFID-equipped passports that have had their encryption algorithm already compromised and can be read from about 30' away with the proper equipment...means it could be much easier for terrorists to identify and target Americans. The equipment needed to read the RFID tags from that distance is relatively cheap and widely available now.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> And I thank God every day that the idiot in office can't be re-elected again. I don't think our country's international reputation, goodwill, and economy would be able to stand it.
> 
> Unfortunately, whomever is elected next will have to clean up the international quagmire that is left from Bush's War on Fundamentalism. GWB said he wanted to make the world safer for Americans, but I don't believe that is the case. His War on Fundamentalism has made Americans far greater targets than ever before.
> 
> Couple that with his lousy, short-sighted and plain stupid implementation of RFID-equipped passports that have had their encryption algorithm already compromised and can be read from about 30' away with the proper equipment...means it could be much easier for terrorists to identify and target Americans. The equipment needed to read the RFID tags from that distance is relatively cheap and widely available now.


SD, I normally stay away from Politics and thereafter discussions here, however, please allow me to share a personnal opinion...that is also widely shared here, too....

I don't think you guys have had a good President since Roosevelt...and believe it or not...President Reagan was percieved as one of the best recent ones....you name it....they all had or did something....what makes you think it will change when President George W. Bush will leave???

As we say here...Democrats have BAD IDEAS....Republicans have NO IDEAS.....it will be just another one....

I had the opportunity to see the last Kerry Vs Bush battle...and I don't think one or the other has it...you know....its just like here...we don't vote the guy in....we vote the guy that's there OUT!!!!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, as presidents go, Clinton wasn't as bad as most make him out to be. His problems were mostly personal, and the Republicans took a witch hunt about financial malfeasance in an investment that happened 10 years before he became president and expanded the scope on it, until they could catch him for perjuring himself about an incident that was purely personal in nature, and understandable to lie about... Having an affair is really no business of anyones, except for the husband, the wife, and the third party involved. 

Compare that to the very clearly illegal and unconstitutional actions of the sitting president... our dictator-in-chief... with his warrantless wiretaps, and conveniently using the threat of terrorism to promote his politcal agenda... which I think is morally reprehensible. 

Jimmy Carter, while not a roaring success as a sitting President, did a lot more good for a lot more people than most of our presidents have managed after they left office. Habitat For Humanity and many of the other things Carter has been involved in have bettered the world in many ways. 

I think Reagan's clearest major legacy was the huge deficits that he left this country with... He presided over the end of the Cold War, but I think that he actually had little to do with it... as the Soviet Union was well on its way to collapsing on its own. He was popular, but this was the same guy who appeared in movies partnered with a chimpanzee...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Dawg...I think you live in an alternate universe from me. I'm not even going to begin to argue with you as it is pointless...we view the same history through very different filters. Your statements simply amaze me. Thank god the rest of the country aint so far gone or we'd really be down the tubes.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

cam - amen!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Interesting exchanges in here... having an opinion is fine but if you aren't willing to fight for your beliefs then you don't really matter much where I come from. Phyllis, will you marry me?  I freely give you my admiration for courage shown in the face of so much "opposition". Facts are of course anathema to Libs and that will never change. It always amazes me that the most virulent liberals have rarely sacrificed anything for anyone. Great education (albeit conveyed in the sacred halls of liberal academia)  Living large (nice expensive sailboats and other toys) Insulated (probably are not typing from Watts or Cabrini Green). In any case we can always agree to disagree. The so called multicultural revolution will in all likelyhood have the same effect on the established "Empires" as they always have. I think there are many of us that really would rather it didn't happen on our watch. Personally I don't believe any of us has a so called right to go anywhere we want and make our own rules. When in Rome.. If there are problem areas in the world that make them in any way unfriendly to us, I don't go there. In any case, We can start a separate thread for political observations. I do have a serious vice to confess though I do love a good fight  
Regards,
Red
USA Ret


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Loewe - you can always pop over to the Interesting thread <G>


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Looks like we are getting two of the forbidden three covered pretty well.....where is the sex thread?  On Customs side of the house, we get a lot of international traffic here and they often ask us what they are supposed to do. I give them the telephone numbers and they are off and running. The Customs folks come by once a year to show their new staff where we are and to grab a bite at the restaurant. Pretty high intensity operation. Sleep well America! 

Regards,
Red


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> SD, I normally stay away from Politics and thereafter discussions here, however, please allow me to share a personnal opinion...that is also widely shared here, too....
> 
> I don't think you guys have had a good President since Roosevelt...and I had the opportunity to see the last Kerry Vs Bush battle...and I don't think one or the other has it...you know....its just like here...we don't vote the guy in....we vote the guy that's there OUT!!!!!


Hey Gui,
My policy on talking politics is to solemnly swear never to do so then plant my foot in my mouth, yabber on for a while and for an encore shoot off my own foot. Works for me. 

So in the spirit of getting into trouble, mate, I'd have to pretty much agree with you re the US Presidents post Roosevelt. I'm not sure about Eisenhower, was a bit young to be taking much interest but the rest of 'em you wouldn't feed to your cat, with the possible exception of Clinton. What's interesting is how some Presidents achieved more on the world stage while others were more inclined towards domestic issues.

People of my political bent (rabid commo, tree hugger, bleeding heart liberal, chardonnay socilalist) are more than happy to take the piss when it comes to Reagan, surely the dopiest President ever, yet it cannot be denied that it was on his watch that the USSR collapsed and the Berlin wall came down. His administration has to get some credit for that, it was a great achievement. Nixon was probably the evilest son of a ***** ever to (dis)grace the oval office yet his visit to China was a defining moment in Sino-US relations. Kennedy, probably the most loved of all post war Presidents doesn't seem to have left any lasting legacy while Johnson, Ford, Carter, Bushes Sr and Jr, seem to have no real redeeming value and make you wonder how such mediocrity ever got to be President of the USA.

That said , can any of us non USAians , suggest that our countries are doing any better ? I hear the sound of silence. I can clearly detect the din of one hand clapping. Exactly. The sad reality is that anyone who actually can get to the top of that particular ladder has to be a deeply flawed individual and probably not worth feeding. Thing is no one gives a flying **** if the Australian PM is a meally mouthed, two bit little tosspot who makes political assasination seem like a good idea. El Presidente de Estados Unidas however just happens to be the face infront of the power behind the greatest nation in the history of this poor benighted planet.

I think it was Zaphod Beeblebrox who said that anyone who actually wanted to be a politician should automatically be banned from ever running for office, or words to that effect. Truer words were never spoken.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

TD 

When I first started reading your last post I thought about the Hitchhikers Guide, and the ruler of the universe and his cat. I'm glad you brought up Zaphod.

Charlie


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There is another scifi book, called Freehold, by Michael Williamson. It has some radical theories on government. The first is that you have to pay to become a governing member...and that you donate all of your worldly wealth to become one of the ruling class. It also takes free market theory and applies it to government in a completely novel way.

I think there is something very wrong when Congress is voting themselves pay raises, while cutting taxes for the rich and spending money like it is coming off of the trees like autumn leaves. I don't know of any normal job where you can give yourself a pay raise.

I also agree that anyone who wants power really should be disqualified from having it... Generally, the people who don't want the power are better choices than the people actively seeking it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, for real political reform, make the salary part of the platform, with it listed next to the name on the ballot. Then you can make a decision on how much you're willing to pay for what.

ANd then make the politicians retirement plan S.S. That would get the S.S. problems solved also.

That's enough politics for me. Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.

Charlie


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Werebeagle that is a brilliant idea! Or maybe just leave the spot blank and each person could write in a suggestion and they could be averaged. Chances are most people would be offering something like what they personally bring home so political office would end up providing very average pay.
On second thought that might just increase incentive for bribe taking.


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

Loewe said:


> Phyllis, will you marry me?  I freely give you my admiration for courage shown in the face of so much "opposition". Facts are of course anathema to Libs and that will never change.


Thanks, Red. Sorry, already married... with 5 kids. 2 in Iraq.

The way I see it, the seductiveness of liberalism is that the great majority of its positions represent what is right taken to a wrong extreme.

In race, liberals are right to think that men should be equal before the law, but wrong to think they are equal in intelligence, behavior, racial characteristics or in any other substantive way. In gender matters, liberals are right to assert that women should not be chained to hearth and home, but wrong to think that women can be just like men or that most women would be happy in a role other than that dictated by 'anatomy is destiny'. In sexuality, liberals are right that sex does not have to be rigidly limited to marriage, but wrong to think that sex is merely another form of recreation such as picnics or quoits. In homosexuality, liberals are right to assert that there is no argument about taste, and that there is no reason to regulate the behavior of consenting adults in private; but wrong to assert that homosexuality is equal in social desirability to heterosexuality, that homosexuals are fit for familial relationships such as marriage and child-raising, or that homosexuals belong as scoutmasters, soldiers, teachers or the like. In short, by being half-right, liberalism has been worse than completely wrong, because what came before -- no matter how mistaken in some cosmic sense -- had at least passed the test of time, while liberalism has not only failed every test to which it has been subject, but is on the verge of leaving the world's greatest civilization in ruins.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

As the Brits would say..... Jolly good show Phyllis!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Phyllis are you quite certain you won't reconsider?  Interesting comment on Ike TDW, in his inaugural address he made an noteworthy remark, "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." We are very nearly there. When I was teaching I used to tell my kids that politicians in general are like boyfriends, they will tell you anything they think you want to hear, to get what they want.  BTW, thank all of you Veterans and families of Veterans, you are the reason we are able to enjoy this exchange.

Regards,
Red


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Phyllis...QUOITS??? Where did that come from!!?? <g>

Dawg... *cutting taxes for the rich ... *again you are dead wrong. 
""Though tax cuts for the rich were bigger than those for other groups, the wealthiest families paid a bigger share of total taxes.....
The top 1% of income earners paid about 36.7% of federal income taxes." The top 20% of income earners paid 67.1% of all federal taxes. By contrast, families in the bottom 40% of income earners, incomes below $36,300, typically paid no federal income tax and received money back from the government." NYTIMES Jan 8,2007









Just cause the tax RATE for the rich has gone down...doesn't mean they are paying less. The booming economy has resulted in MUCH MORE TAX $$'s going into the US Treasury and the actual share of the "RICH" in total taxes paid is higher than before the cuts. You liberal class bashers would have us all ground down to equal incomes with big daddy government in charge of the distribution of the diminishing returns from a sputtering economy where no one had any incentive to work harder. You scream about unfair tax rates when the top 25% pay 83% of all taxes...the only way to reduce taxes on the bottom 40% would be to GIVE them money since they don't pay any!!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

lol Cam within the sacred halls of academia that is called the "ability to pay" principle of taxation. Obviously a Democratic idea 

Regards,
Red


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The real danger is that when the bottom 51% pay no taxes...they'll just keep voting themselves raises!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

[RANT]
Yes, but that is just federal income taxes. Many of the more wealthy people I know have very little taxable income... most of it is in the form of capital gains, which are taxed less.

Also, many of the common taxes act as regressive taxes... It isn't a problem to be buying gasoline at $2.00 a gallon if you make $50,000+ a year, but if you make $20,000 it takes a significantly higher chunk of your budget to do so. Then again, most of the wealthy people will be driving newer cars that are often more fuel efficient and so the disparity can grow even larger. Most sales taxes are regressive in nature.

Part of the problem is that Congress doesn't identify itself with the bulk of the American people. How many of the people in Congress would qualify as merely middle-income? Probably none.

I notice in the facts you're quoting that 84% of federal income tax is paid by the top 25% of income earners. My question is this-what is the comparative amount of money earned by that same 25% compared with the other 75%. I am willing to bet that the top 25% of income earners make on average, more than four times what the bottom 75% do-if this is the case, then that is not actually a valuable statistic to be quoting as it would just be showing parity. If the top 25% makes more than four times what the bottom 75% do... then it shows an imbalance in their favor.

One other point... the higher the income, the more help they have in avoiding taxes... either through assistance-CPAs and Attorneys; through philanthropy; more advanced tax sheltering capabilities-funds, foundations, corporations and trusts; and by having less income-based financial revenue.

Also, the gains by the wealthy in a booming economy are generally far greater in proportion than those of the less well off. If you have $300 to invest, then a 10% increase is all of $30... however if you $300,000 to invest, the same increase is $30,000 and you will generally pay far less in fees as a percentage of your investment than will the less well off individual.

As for Congress... we should make the responsible for passing the laws we care about and doing so efficiently... with performance reviews and have the politicians competitively bid to serve. Political office shouldn't be a high-paying job, and shouldn't come with any benefits that the basic American public lack.

What about criminals in the United States. In most cases, convicts have a better standard of living than most of the working poor-they have room, board, cable or satellite TV in many cases, health club-type facilities, access to education, health care, and yet they have chosen to break the laws of this country and opt out of contributing to society. This needs to change too... In most cases, all our prisons have ended up doing is creating a smarter, stronger, healthier criminal when they do get out. [/RANT]


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey dawg...CAPITAL GAINS ARE INCLUDED in federal income tax. The gain rate lowering is the biggest factor in investment in business and the economy which is what is producing the huge economic expansion since their implementation. *The lowered rate is WHY "Rich People" are paying more in taxes than before the cuts*. Why would I lend money to a risky business if my gains were going to be taxed at 36%??? DUH?? by the way...that money I have to invest is money i EARNED and already paid my 36% on. Tax me twice at that rate and I'll just keep it under my pillow or in safe investments that don't get taxed till I cash out after retirement at a lower rate. 
If you don't like regressive taxes then let's go to the FAIR TAX. Oh right...that will be really popular with liberals. 
http://www.fairtax.org/fairtax/about.htm
You might have to actually pay for something instead of getting it for free. IF YOU ARE ABOVE THE POVERTY LEVEL AND CAN WORK why is it your right to have ANYTHING I HAVE EARNED?

WHO SAYS EVERYONE HAS TO GAIN AT THE SAME RATE? That is not the principle of a free economy.

The real criminals are not in jail. They're out making promises about how the government will take care of you if they're elected in 2008.


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## sidiag (Jul 5, 2003)

Just read thru this entire thread in one sitting.

I would like to add this thought. . .

This must be the best/worst case of thread drift I have seen
on this forumn. (fight club v2)

good day


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SIDIAG, I agree that a discussion about clearance into Australia has degenerated to the 12th degree! Now, back to cruising to Australia. After reading the RELEVANT threads on this site, I went to Noonsite.com to check on the entry regulations to Australia. What I found on Noonsite and this forum convinced me to avoid Australia. I have had two friends who immigrated there. One was an attorney who represented the airline pilot's association for Quantas and the other was an expert in radio programing talk shows. The consensus was: the Australian women are beautiful and the government socialist nanny state sucks, of course, this was viewed from the perspective of gun-toting Texans. The most helpful skill to import to Australia is the ability to negotiate the bureaucracy. I simply don't have the patience.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

werebeagle said:


> TD
> 
> When I first started reading your last post I thought about the Hitchhikers Guide, and the ruler of the universe and his cat. I'm glad you brought up Zaphod.
> 
> Charlie


Without doubt my favourite character in the book(s). He can rule my universe anytime he feels like it.


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## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

*Hi Sidiag*

G'day sidag.

How right you are.

I posted this because I thought most of these so called "CRUISERS" would want to have something to discuss about cruising.
I think it was a little over their heads.
OR as we say in Australia, off to the keeper.

Just goes to show you that if one has expectations, one will surely have dissapointments.

This post has bought out a lot of bored voters who obviously did not vote for the powers they have installed.
Musta been someone else who voted.

And Bush reckons he has problems. Put these guys on the payroll and problem solved.

JIm.


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

I think these topics are always going to drift because wether your aussie,american, or kiwi and on and on people are tiered of watching their personal freedoms evaperate so some bare-ass-ter lawyer can make more money. It really agravates sailors because they see the ocean as the last great free territory on earth. the dream of voyaging around to new and exotic places gets jepordized when the ugly beurocratic monster surfaces and you realize there is no escape. IT"S THE TOTAL PERSPECTIVE VORTEX.
I have not seen anything that will keep me from stopping to see a kangaroo and a koala bear and god forbid a wombat or a tazmainian devil or a duck bill platapus. there are just to many things I want to see in Austraila to just skip it. Ill jump through the hoops. when the time comes. wish I didn't have too but if thats how it is then thats how it is. Hell how many people are not cruising to different places because their insurance company tells them not to? So y'all tell the bobbies and barresters an customs nazis that Ill be along here in the next four or five years. will put some tofu on the barby (wont be able to kill shrimp by then) and blow the froth off a few. 
Matt
PS you don't think they'll out law beer by then do ya?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailorjim99 said:


> G'day sidag.
> 
> How right you are.
> 
> ...


As one of those most guilty of hijacking this thread I have to concur.

May be a good idea to split the thread twixt the warmers and the politicos ? Now let's see, the warmers were here first, so in the spirit of the European settlement of both Oz and US, they can bugger off cos the politicos will make better use of the available space. 

In truth at least climate change effects all mariners so it's a relevent topic. The politicos should be banished to "off topic" where we/they belong.

So, that's sorted now what was all that palaver about ending hunger , pollution and bringing on an era of world peace ? Piece of cake.

ps - Love that expression "thread drift".


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## capecodphyllis (Dec 7, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Phyllis...QUOITS??? Where did that come from!!?? <g>


It's a stupid lawn game in which a donut-like disc is thrown over a spike. Horseshoe pitching became the poor man's version of quoits using leftover horseshoes instead of the real thing. There are a number of excellent dirty jokes about the once popular game. However, they are all off-topic. Darn.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the warning. Australiajust got dump from my plans. When *paperwork* is a *criminal* offence you dont want to go there.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

yes...yes..yes...a true gem...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> yes...yes..yes...a true gem...


This thread should be a sticky....to serve as a warning to those who would come after us.....

Mind you I really should correct that last post of mine.....Zapphod was not the coolest frood in the H'sGTTG the Man Who Rules the Universe is.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

capecodphyllis said:


> I never got that far. I visited their immigration website and saw that my age and job skill did not meet with their requirements.


CCP, Australia has 'free universal health care'. If they give you a residency permit you're eligible for free health care while you're there. Naturally, they don't want a bunch of old retirees taking up residence just as their health care costs are heading through the roof. It's not fair to the tax paying public (and let me tell you, they pay taxes big time in Oz. Australia makes the US look like a tax haven.)

(Just wanted to see if we could bend the thread off onto another controversial issue that has nothing to do with sailing).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Billy-

CCP is banned and as such will have trouble replying.


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