# Hurricane Irma - On the Hook



## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

Just looking for general advice. I'm watching the track of Hurricane Irma and hoping the current HP system strengthens and drives it south of the VA/NC Coast. Either way on Wednesday I'm putting my boat on the hook as a precaution (and also for the experience as it will only be the 2nd time Ive been on a mooring). Any advice on how to prepare the boat (and myself) would be helpful. 1986 289 Oday. Will be near the head of the Chesapeake near Aberdeen, MD
Thanks in advance.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Way too early to worry about it. 

If it does become a concern, here is what I have done for storm prep for my O'day 35:
Jib comes off.
Main gets secured to backstay, and wrapped with a dock line around sailcover.
Dodger comes off.
My single support Bimini stays in its cover.

On a slip, I have always doubled the lines and centered in the slip. My neighbor and I have worked in concert to keep our boats centered in the slip, and off of each other.


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

I strip everything, it all comes off and gets stowed below: 

- jib
- main
- halyards (replaced with messenger lines) 
- dodger
- bimini
- lifesling
- grill
- anchor
- man overboard pole 

full disclosure: I forgot the stow the MOB Pole during hurricane Matthew. Matthew stowed it for me ... just not where I wanted it stowed.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

BlueMax

Odd opinion here, but where is your boat usually stored??? The idea of putting the boat on the hook (Anchor???) or mooring..where there will be only one thing linking the boat to the point....I would and have, run the boat up the nearest creek, aground or close to it and tether it to the sides of the creek, using several lines to do so.. We have installed several boats "up the creek" over the years and have had significantly less damage than watching one dance on a mooring or anchor lead..or worse breaking loose and running wild.

Either way, remove anything that can be removed, sails, canvas, frames and even winch covers (seldom make it through a strong blow) and tie down the rest using multiple paths and lines. We even bring home electronics and high value things that can be removed.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

> I strip everything, it all comes off and gets stowed below:
> 
> - jib
> - main
> ...


The above is very good information, I would also add that if you are anchoring that you use the heaviest anchor that you can get your hands on and still be able to deploy.
Use lots of scope preferably with chain and a long bridle snubber, double up on chaffing gear (ie fire hose and the like) Try to position the boat where you will have the most protection from the strongest anticipated wind direction and where you are less likely to be dragged down upon by other boats that don't take the same level of precaution that you do. Of course once the wind goes above 100 mph it's pretty much just a crap shoot. This is my plan anyway. I've got a 65 lb. Mantus with 165' of 3/8" G4 chain and and a bridle made up of 35' of 7/8" three strand on each side which attaches to a chain bridle that goes around the bow cleats. The end of the chain is also attached to a single snubber that goes back to the primary winch and then to the stern cleat. All of the tackle on the boat is enclosed in two layers of fire hose, a 2/12" which is in a 5". There are others that disagree with this approach and they may be right but this is the choice that I made and I'm sticking to it.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Strip it bare! Tie on fenders or other means of keeping boats and floating objects off yours. They may also keep your boat above the waterline if it gets holed.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Watch this video of Cat 4 hurricane Harvey and then figure out what kind of ground tackle you think you'll need to handle these conditions...






My take? Take shelter and write off your boat.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Why not hope it stays out to sea instead of just hitting people other than you?

Mark (boat currently South of VA/NC)


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

Thanks. After reading this I may just center in the slip and double line. Appreciate the feedback. ?


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

contrarian said:


> > I strip everything, it all comes off and gets stowed below:
> >
> > - jib
> > - main
> ...


The firehose is something I've never really thought of but a good idea. Why would some disagree with this? Seems like a reasonable and appropriate method to mitigate some of the risk...


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

eherlihy said:


> Way too early to worry about it.
> 
> If it does become a concern, here is what I have done for storm prep for my O'day 35:
> Jib comes off.
> ...


All great advice and after reading your post will likely double line in the slip. Thanks so much. 
On another note, although I consider myself an intermediate sailor I had the great fortune of growing up in the Outer Banks and am an expert in not underestimating storms. ? Most folks out here watch them off the coast of Liberia and if it seems likely then we prepare 5-7 days out graduating our response as forecasts become more clear. When I was just a lad, my dad lost his boat during Hugo, so I'm surely dealing with some scar tissue there.


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

colemj said:


> Why not hope it stays out to sea instead of just hitting people other than you?
> 
> Mark (boat currently South of VA/NC)


Look, we all hope it stays out to sea and hits no one. Admittedly though, I am like most people and not so altruistic to say "God please spare others so they may ne'r endure hardship and instead reign your fury upon me and mine."


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

The upper reaches of Chesapeake Bay near Aberdeen offers a wide array of hurricane holes. Gunpowder River, specifically Seneca River's upper reaches, Gunpowder Cove Marina, Bush River Marina, and nearly a dozen other locations I can think of off the top of my head. If you intend to hang the boat on the hook, I wouldn't recommend it, of course this depends on the track of the storm and the wind velocity.

Good luck,

Gary


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

scubadoo said:


> Strip it bare! Tie on fenders or other means of keeping boats and floating objects off yours. They may also keep your boat above the waterline if it gets holed.


Thanks for the advice on the extra fenders. Really hadn't thought of other boats and debris (or a hole). ??


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

travlin-easy said:


> The upper reaches of Chesapeake Bay near Aberdeen offers a wide array of hurricane holes. Gunpowder River, specifically Seneca River's upper reaches, Gunpowder Cove Marina, Bush River Marina, and nearly a dozen other locations I can think of off the top of my head. If you intend to hang the boat on the hook, I wouldn't recommend it, of course this depends on the track of the storm and the wind velocity.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Gary


I've looked at some of those spots and your input verifies my thinking. Particularity think Gunpowder Cove may be suitable as it is close and the locals have mentioned it. Appreciate the input. ?


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## Bluemax009 (Jul 4, 2017)

smackdaddy said:


> Watch this video of Cat 4 hurricane Harvey and then figure out what kind of ground tackle you think you'll need to handle these conditions...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> The upper reaches of Chesapeake Bay near Aberdeen offers a wide array of hurricane holes. Gunpowder River, specifically Seneca River's upper reaches, ...
> Gary


Do you mean Seneca CREEK? I actually looked at that, years ago, with the thought of using it as a hurricane hole. I discarded the idea because it is very densely populated. I would not know where to tie my boat to, the only solid structures I remember on the shores are pilings from people's docks or from a marina. I doubt they would let me tie my boat to that.

Or would that be accepted in a hurricane situation?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Bluemax009 said:


> I've looked at some of those spots and your input verifies my thinking. Particularity think Gunpowder Cove may be suitable as it is close and the locals have mentioned it. Appreciate the input. ?


Isn't Gunpowder Cove behind the railroad bridge? If yes, are you prepared to drop the mast?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Bluemax009 said:


> All great advice and after reading your post will likely double line in the slip. Thanks so much.
> On another note, although I consider myself an intermediate sailor I had the great fortune of growing up in the Outer Banks and am an expert in not underestimating storms. ? Most folks out here watch them off the coast of Liberia and if it seems likely then we prepare 5-7 days out graduating our response as forecasts become more clear. When I was just a lad, my dad lost his boat during Hugo, so I'm surely dealing with some scar tissue there.


The only danger here is if the marina slips fail...

Assuming that you have floating docks; look at the pilings that secure your docks. Are they secure and in good shape? (I have seen pilings at some marinas that you could wobble by pushing on them) Could a storm surge of 7 feet top the piling, and allow the dock to float away?

At my old marina I decided that the docks were secure enough for Irene and Sandy and weathered these storms without a scratch. During Irene I figured that the biggest danger to my boat was the ~30 foot Bristol across the fairway from me that had been secured with 3/8" dock line. Because I didn't want him blowing down on me, I secured HIS boat with 5/8" and 3/4" dock lines. I went back after the storm and retrieved my dock lines.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Bluemax009 said:


> The firehose is something I've never really thought of but a good idea. Why would some disagree with this? Seems like a reasonable and appropriate method to mitigate some of the risk...


I'm not an expert, but I'll pretend to be.

Firehose is commonly used for chafe protection, which is good. But it also provides insulation and prevents rainwater intrusion. Both of these are bad, because one mode of failure for the line is for individual fibers to heat up and effectively melt under friction. So insulation is a bad thing, and lack of rainwater prevents cooling and lubrication which could otherwise prevent failure.

There are tradeoffs to every approach - nothing is a complete guarantee.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

The most likely failure point for your mooring pendant is at the chock. Stretching and shock loads may build up heat in nylon pendants until the line melts. Waterproof chafing guards exacerbate the problem. The stretchiness of nylon reduces shock loads to a moored boat but the stretchiness is unacceptable between the deck cleat and the chocks. Eliminate the problem at the chocks by adding dyneema pendant extensions to your nylon pendants. They're not cheap but they work. https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/mooring-pendant-cyclone-endura-12-braid-44575.html


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Bluemax009 said:


> ?


Do you want to anchor in that? What kind of ground tackle will it take to stay secure in 150 mph gusts?

Your boat is not going to survive that unless there is a stupid crazy stroke of luck. It's that simple.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> Do you want to anchor in that? What kind of ground tackle will it take to stay secure in 150 mph gusts?
> 
> Your boat is not going to survive that unless there is a stupid crazy stroke of luck. It's that simple.


Very unlikely that gusts would be anywhere close to 150 mph up in Aberdeen, MD.

Regardless, I wouldn't trust ground tackle for an anchoring scenario.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Very unlikely that gusts would be anywhere close to 150 mph up in Aberdeen, MD.
> 
> Regardless, I wouldn't trust ground tackle for an anchoring scenario.


The thread is talking about Hurricane Irma. Even at Cat 1, a direct hit is going to be 80+ knots. I'm just trying to keep this conversation real. The "ride it out" mentality is ridiculous unless you're in a *true* "hurricane hole" *and nowhere near the eye*...even at Cat 1. Above that (90+ knots), all bets are off...regardless of where you're moored.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> The thread is talking about Hurricane Irma. Even at Cat 1, a direct hit is going to be 80+ knots. I'm just trying to keep this conversation real. The "ride it out" mentality is ridiculous unless you're in a *true* "hurricane hole" *and nowhere near the eye*...even at Cat 1. Above that (90+ knots), all bets are off...regardless of where you're moored.


OP explicitly referenced Aberdeen, which is 150 nm from the mouth of the Chesapeake, and about 70 nm inland "as the crow flies" from the nearest shore point at Cape May. So a "direct hit" of a hurricane is physically impossible because it needs to travel over so much land.

I'm not suggesting that he ride it out. But factually speaking, it is far more likely that Aberdeen would, at worst, see the remnants of the hurricane in the form of a tropical storm or tropical depression. There will be plenty of wind and rain, but not likely to be 90+ knots. And perhaps enough surge to float the docks right off their pilings, which is one reason that some do opt for moorings during these events.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> OP explicitly referenced Aberdeen, which is 150 nm from the mouth of the Chesapeake, and about 70 nm inland "as the crow flies" from the nearest shore point at Cape May. So a "direct hit" of a hurricane is physically impossible because it needs to travel over so much land.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that he ride it out. But factually speaking, it is far more likely that Aberdeen would, at worst, see the remnants of the hurricane in the form of a tropical storm or tropical depression. There will be plenty of wind and rain, but not likely to be 90+ knots. And perhaps enough surge to float the docks right off their pilings, which is one reason that some do opt for moorings during these events.


Then it's not a hurricane. So maybe we change the title of the thread?

Look, I'm just wanting to be crystal clear here...for safety's sake. You don't "ride out" a hurricane...especially on "the hook". And you *don't even expect your anchored boat to be okay* in such circumstances while you're in a shelter, even at Cat 1. *Period.*


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone ride out a hurricane in their boat. I do believe that one can give their boat a better chance of surviving the storm with some forethought and preparedness. Some of us don't have the luxury of having our boats hauled and strapped down to helical anchors on flat hard ground. In this area the yards are already reserved by the mega yacht power boats so us dinky winks have to fend for ourselves. As for me I have decided that anchoring out my boat ahead of the storm is better than staying at the marina where she is normally berthed. Also just to clarify, the nylon snubber isn't enclosed in the fire hose, the chain extender is what is within 2 layers of fire hose. I just couldn't think of any other way to prevent chafe. Will it stand up to 100 mph winds? maybe. Hurricane Camille had gusts over 200 mph and sent large working boats 2 miles inland... Yes Hurricanes are Bad A$$ but it don't mean you don't give em a rum fer der money. Did someone mention Bushwackers????


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Anchoring out in a hurricane is highly undesirable, but it has been done successfully. First, you must choose a location where the winds will not be at their max. The OP first says on the hook, implying an anchor, then says a mooring. Not sure which they meant.

A mooring must be rated for a storm and most are not. Of course, the idea of anchoring requires substantial and reliable ground tackle, along with attention/prevention over chafe. Your odds are indeed pretty bad with both.

Still, it's a last resort. While this couple takes several risks that I would not, you may find this hurricane prep and survival interesting.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Since the original poster stated that he will be on a mooring, he should remove his anchor from the bow roller and store it midship below. In my experience, abrasion of the pendants on the anchor is the second cause of failure in storms; only less common than chafing at the chocks.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

One additional thing to consider is not the hurricane itself of so much as the debris being washed down the Susquehanna. IIRC a couple of years ago a couple of boats were washed off the moorings after the hurricane by debris. We sat out Irene and Sandy in Delaware City and had significant debris through our marina. 

A large tree, or rogue dock, can entangle your hook and set her free.

Travlin-Easy will have a better informed opinion on this than I.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Do you mean Seneca CREEK? I actually looked at that, years ago, with the thought of using it as a hurricane hole. I discarded the idea because it is very densely populated. I would not know where to tie my boat to, the only solid structures I remember on the shores are pilings from people's docks or from a marina. I doubt they would let me tie my boat to that.
> 
> Or would that be accepted in a hurricane situation?


There is a marina at the very upper end of Seneca Creek, which is totally protected. Several private docks where you could likely get permission to hole up during a hurricane as well. I have a friend there that has a few open slips at his place.

Worten Creek is a great hurricane hole, too. Space is limited at the marinas, but they are all very well protected.

Hope this helps,

Gary


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

hpeer said:


> One additional thing to consider is not the hurricane itself of so much as the debris being washed down the Susquehanna. IIRC a couple of years ago a couple of boats were washed off the moorings after the hurricane by debris. We sat out Irene and Sandy in Delaware City and had significant debris through our marina.
> 
> A large tree, or rogue dock, can entangle your hook and set her free.
> 
> Travlin-Easy will have a better informed opinion on this than I.


The volume of debris that washes down the Susquehanna varies substantially, but can include the roofs of homes. Most of the larger stuff has to pass through a series of bridges before it reaches the mouth of the river, thereby breaking it up quite a bit. However, several years ago, I forget which storm caused this, a part of a marina washed down the river with a dozen boats still tied to the floating docks. Ironically, only one boat was sunk in that event.

Good luck

Gary :cut_out_animated_em


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> There is a marina at the very upper end of Seneca Creek, which is totally protected. Several private docks where you could likely get permission to hole up during a hurricane as well. I have a friend there that has a few open slips at his place.
> 
> Worten Creek is a great hurricane hole, too. Space is limited at the marinas, but they are all very well protected.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know the marina (Beacon Light or something). Indeed, that would be a very protected location if one could get in for a big storm. But I could imagine that there would be a lot of demand for those slips.

And Worton would, indeed, be very protected, too. One issue there is that access after a big blow may not be easy. Even _without_ a storm, it is a long slog from Baltimore over the Bay Bridge (or over the top of the Bay, same time I would guess). But surely something to keep in mind!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

PredictWind is forecasting to hit Cape Lookout on friday, running outside of The Bahamas.
Keep an eye on her...


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

remember runoff carries things that can puncture hulls and result in loss of buoyancy.
i drop my booms and lash em to the boat in cat5 situations. helps reduce windage and stress on masts. 
try to be bow into the oncoming winds. i also keep all my chain and anchor forward of mainmast~~a buoyant bow is a wandering bow. weight will help keep her down not bouncy. double your snubbers. make em bridles also and long. 
if you must anchor do so as if you were an oil rig and donot be surprised if your well protected boat goes walkabout or finds underwater storage more comfortable


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

I hesitate to double up the dock lines because of chafe of lines rubbing against each other. The same problem with heat build up by using fire hoses. In the past I've been on fixed docks for TS and had numerous lines running from everywhere possible(never doubled up). Now I'm on a floating concrete dock with high metal pilings in a very protected marina. I'm wondering if it's best to snug up the lines to that floating dock vs leaving a little slack? 

Did survive one Cat one anchored on a single 35 lb CQR when the boat was brand new....will never do that again. Sometimes luck plays a role.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

Tight lines would prevent the boat from surging, but at the same time may prevent the boat from heeling which might be bad since heeling will take some pressure off the boat assuming masts from other boats do not interfere.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

best way to chafe your lines is snug em up good. let your boat move naturally--not much, just enough to not chafe. wind will push your boat over--will snap already snug lines. use pilings so when your cleats on dock snap as did mine in a cat 5, you will have protection from breakaway.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm not sure if attaching lines to pilings on a floating dock is a good idea since other problems may be introduced. One other note is that during an ice storm several winters ago with all sails removed and just the roller furling exposed. I saw the roller furler reach a natural frequency. It was wobbling all over the place and I have it set pretty tight like 20% of breaking strength via that folding rule method. I was able to get a couple lines around it and tie down to cleats to keep the wobble out. Just another consideration in high wind conditions. Did not see that in the cat 1 storm I was in, but that was the least of my concerns at the time.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

all we have is floating docks. i tie to pilings as a rule when i donot trust my docks and for cat 3, 4 and 5 canes. tying to piling CAN keep things together in the face of surges and dock cleat fail. btdt. weathered patricia with 3 pilings. ts jova with one and lidia with one. i recommend it for safety.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Used tires can be had free. If your dock isn't a jagged piece of junk where things can catch...maybe consider them if you think it's gonna hit hard.
The fender de rigueur in locks. 
You can also bumper/line the dock with them rather than the boat.

PW now has it right off but attached to the coast from just north of Wilmington all the way to RI...bullseye there.
It'll continue to change.

As said, piles are mucho more secure than cleats.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

zeehag said:


> all we have is floating docks. i tie to pilings as a rule when i donot trust my docks and for cat 3, 4 and 5 canes. tying to piling CAN keep things together in the face of surges and dock cleat fail. btdt. weathered patricia with 3 pilings. ts jova with one and lidia with one. i recommend it for safety.


Do you have the lines slide up and down the pilings with the water level?

If yes, how?

If not, how do you cope with the boat and dock moving with the water level and the lines not?


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Yeah, my old marina would get appoplexy at the thought of tying to a piling. 7' of tide normal. A small private tug came in one night and tied to the pilings and the dock cleats. Dock cleats went up with boat but the rope on pilings held the other side down. Made an unholy mess.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Do you have the lines slide up and down the pilings with the water level?
> 
> If yes, how?
> 
> If not, how do you cope with the boat and dock moving with the water level and the lines not?


TideMinders: freedom from line adjustment during storm surges, tidal changes and high-winds.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> TideMinders: freedom from line adjustment during storm surges, tidal changes and high-winds.


I know of them and I have my own home-made version that are in service for over 15 years by now (a great way to recycle car tires!). My question was whether Zeehag used that, and if yes how it worked.

For instance, pilings for floating docks are often steel girders with sharp edges, not the round pilings that tideminders are made for. Will the edges cut through the line exposed between the tideminder balls?


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

This is an interesting video riding out a hurricane on the hook. Sailing Uma explains pre and post prep in other videos. The most important part seems to be location location location.

You Tube





You Tube








"]Hurricane survival anchoring tactics (staying on your boat) - Sailing Uma [Step 54] - YouTube[/URL]


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Well anyone in the path of Irma who plans to ride it out on the hook should write their ID details and next of kin on their arm.

You do not mess with cat 4 storms.

Even if you can find a great hurricane hole in the mangroves do everything you can to secure the boat and then find shelter ashore.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Waterrat said:


> This is an interesting video riding out a hurricane on the hook. Sailing Uma explains pre and post prep in other videos. The most important part seems to be location location location.


He didn't ride out a hurricane. He rode out a tropical storm. The hurricane was ~100 miles west of him. His title is misleading to say the least. And it could be construed as dangerous if inexperienced people take him at "his word" and try the same thing in an *actual *Cat 4. That's an irresponsible video as far as I'm concerned.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

I think if people take Dan for his word then they should take in all of his words and not cherry pick. He had a well thought out plan and executed it successfully. The title may be misleading but pull up google news and you will see that there are a ton of misleading titles to articles and videos to get clicks. That is the nature of the beast. 

To say it was a tropical storm is quite misleading in and of itself. He was a approximately 100 miles from the center of the eye of Mathew Cat 4. Considering that a hurricane eye is usually at least 30 miles across and can be 3-4X that wide and given the predictability of a Cat 4 Hurricanes path my opinion is that for a title to a video he is accurate. Haven't you heard the saying close only counts for horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear bombs and hurricanes? Ok I maybe I have added the hurricanes. 

Just because you and I would make different choices given their same scenario does not mean there is not value to the info in the video. There is still a lot to learn from this video. Yes fools will be fools. This video is not going to prevent an idiot from being an idiot. I don't think Dan is an idiot. The USA nanny state would like to baby everyone and protect us all from everything. Millions of people live in hurricane/typhoon locations and survive the threat. As with Uma in the video location location location. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and accept the consequences of your actions. Please Smack don't try to protect me from info because I might use it incorrectly.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I don't really know what a nanny state is, but let me be more precise...

The winds/conditions he actually dealt with where he was anchored were tropical storm force - not hurricane force. For some perspective on that, Matthew was indeed a Cat 4 when it nicked Tiburon Peninsula of Haiti. This means that its maximum sustained windspeed was 130-156 mph - *at the eye wall*. Indeed, an anemometer at Antoine-Simon Airport in Les Cayes, about 20 miles east of Tiburon, measured a gust of 107 mph (172 km/h) before the station went offline.

But keep taking that out. Just ~25 miles east of Petit Goave where this dude was holed up, *gusts* in Port-au-Prince reached only 60 mph (97 km/h). That's tropical storm force.

For comparison, here's a look at Irma, also currently a Cat 4. You can see the wind gradient as it moves out from the eye wall...










You can see that at the eye wall you're getting up to 137 knots, but 70-80 miles out from that (in the northern teeth of the system) you're getting 60 knots, and on the back side you're getting 35 or less. And on the east side, where this dude was, it drops into the 50s within 60 or so miles of the eye (though Irma is moving west and Matthew was moving north).

Now factor in Petit Goave itself. There is no question that he made a very, very wise decision putting himself in that bay. As you can see by the map it is surrounded by land/mountains almost 270 degrees.










So it was *extremely* well protected from the hurricane which was, again, ~100 miles to the southwest/west. Kudos to him for making this call.

BUT, at 9:10 in the video, he mentions that the mountains "were doing their job reducing the recorded 120 knot winds by about half". Well, those 120 knot winds (Cat 4 strength) were certainly not happening at Petit Goave. They were happening ~100 miles to the west of him as Matthew marched north. And, again, just 25 miles to his east, the *highest recorded gust is only 60 mph*. Back to the image above.

So, I'm not cherry picking - he's just exaggerating. And that's dangerous if people are taking him seriously about "successfully anchoring in and riding out a Cat 4 hurricane".

If you watch the video, the highest *gusts* he mentions is an estimated 60/70/80 knots (he apparently doesn't have a wind speed indicator). Judging by the video, I'd probably spot him 50-60 knots, *maybe* an occasional 70. But again, this is still below Cat 1...and fits with what was recorded just to the east of him in Port-au-Prince.

So no, *he did not ride out a hurricane at anchor*. He was relatively near one and he definitely experienced tropical storm conditions from those outer bands in a very well protected anchorage. No question. And as he showed, his technique for doing so was very good (raise a glass to Mantus). So, yes, that's worth learning.

But if his claimed "recorded 120 knot winds" were actually where he was, even with the mountains, not only would his dodger be in the jungle in a heartbeat...so would his boat.

So, he should have been a bit more honest/accurate in the video. Because people are now using it as justification. And that's not good. Who knows, *he* may think he actually weathered a real Cat 4 hurricane and will now try it again (he'd been talking about his "hurricane plan" for a long time before this).

I'm still hoping and praying their DIY keel doesn't fall off.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Now showing it will hit the Out Islands, go right over Grand Bahama and bullseye Titusville...then inland.
Keeps changing...


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## Van_Isle (Jan 10, 2014)

Here's an interesting write-up on riding out Hugo at anchor (and not!):

Hurricane Hugo


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

Aint going to do nothing way up there. Probably beat up the Keys and south FL.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've only rode out a single hurricane and not because I wanted to, but because I had to - it was part of the job. The US Navy usually gets their larger ships, carriers, cruisers, destroyers, out of port if a hurricane is approaching that port, and rides out the storm offshore. It was 1958, if I remember correctly, we were part of a presidential guard ship, which is a string of ships across the ocean to prevent Air Force One from being shot down while en-route to Geneva for the Geneva Convention. I was stationed aboard the USS Newport News, we were in the North Atlantic, I don't remember what the winds were, but the waves crashed over the ship's bow with such intensity and force that on day two of the storm, a 3-inch 50mm dual mount was completely ripped off the bow. The mount probably tips the scales at several tons, but that wave picked up up just as if it were not welded to the main deck and tossed it over the side. Live ammo bounced down the deck, slamming into other gun mounts and superstructure, but not, fortunately, detonated.

I was scared to death, the waves were estimated at nearly 75-feet and the ship split several hull seams. We spent the next three months in the ship yards in Portsmouth, VA putting the ship back together. Fortunately, we never went through another hurricane during the ensuing three years I served on that ship, and when I was discharged, I vowed I would never ride out another hurricane, or even a nasty noreaster. Just a dumb thing to do.

Play it safe,

Gary


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

The new forecasts show that my boat could be in real trouble from Irma. She's on the hard in the Ft. Myers area. We'll see.


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

Riverside Marina


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Some videos to show why you don't really want to ride out a Hurricane on board:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: SCENES FROM HURRICANE IRENE


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Now showing over top of VIs, over Andros...landing at Homestead (remember Andrew...)


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

In '91 I was on my way to ME and was anchored in Nantucket Sound... When I saw Bob brewing down south I tried to get the boat hauled. No luck... they were setting up for the Classic Opera Cup race... Next I thought the Boat Basin would be safe... It had no floating docks and a stout sea wall to protect from easterly swells. No luck... booked. I was wait listed. There were a few no shows. I got the location west of the last long pier which they had a mega yacht on... and to the south of my slip there was another mega yacht. I tied off keeping the boat well off the east pier and the pilings and waited ashore with friends. I was in the lee of 2 mega yachts... one to the East and one to the South. Perfect!

YIKES.... there were dinghies flying into the Boat Basin from the anchorage.... and some small sailboats broke their moorings and pounded against the mega yacht on my East. I fought my way onto the dock in the fury of the storm to check my lines.... Everything was OK and there was no wind in the lee of the two mega yachts! After the storm... I continued around the Cape to Maine.

I got lucky...


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

My Pearson 26 rode out Mathew on a home made mooring in Cocoa Florida last year - a crazy dude on a close by boat who stayed on his boat through the hurricane registered 100 knot gusts . But the key was the wind direction , where the boat was the strongest gusts were from the southwest - my boat is very protected from the south through north - however if the wind would have been that strong from the Southeast - might have been a different outcome - long fetch on the Intracoastal to the SE.
I would strip everything and take everything of value off the boat. I had 3 large (27lb) danforths out with 1/2 inch chain - 2 coming to a swivel - plus I had the standard boat anchor out, so basically I had 4 rodes coming to my cleats - figured if any chafed through - another would hold - also had chafe protection. Looks like I may have to do the same in 3 days or so. 
Those anchors are so buried in the muck - they are never coming back up.

One good thing - I have a sunk boat to the SE of me - with the mast sticking out of the water - hopefully it will deflect any boats breaking loose and heading down my way - the anchorage is a mixed sort of boats - about 15 - half are in good shape and taken care of - the other half have one anchor out and look mostly abandoned - dumb luck got them through the last storm


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## Movingrightalong... (Apr 14, 2017)

sailforlife said:


> Aint going to do nothing way up there. Probably beat up the Keys and south FL.


That's increasingly what it is looking like. We're tracking it on the Introducing Irma thread in the weather sub forum.

Good luck everyone.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

ok boys and girls.
what did i say earlier about prepping for a what??? heeeeres irma, cat 5 and intensifying. i hope you are all ready and hunkered. 
south west fla.. oopsy. smacky i hope your boat is safe. same with all in ft myers and vicinity. could be a busy week. 
fla is already been declared state of emergency


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks Zee. I've asked the yard to strap her down and remove the solar panels. All the canvas has already been stripped and stowed. So I've done what I can. It's up to Irma now.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks Zee. I've asked the yard to strap her down and remove the solar panels. All the canvas has already been stripped and stowed. So I've done what I can. It's up to Irma now.


Other than making sure the insurance premium is paid, not much left to do. Good luck!


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

hold fast and be safe and goodluck and whatever else ye say before a monster slams the area. check in when this beastie leaves you. pix also. yeah i am a sicko-- i love storm pix.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

contrarian said:


> The above is very good information, I would also add that if you are anchoring that you use the heaviest anchor that you can get your hands on and still be able to deploy.
> Use lots of scope preferably with chain and a long bridle snubber, double up on chaffing gear (ie fire hose and the like) Try to position the boat where you will have the most protection from the strongest anticipated wind direction and where you are less likely to be dragged down upon by other boats that don't take the same level of precaution that you do. Of course once the wind goes above 100 mph it's pretty much just a crap shoot. This is my plan anyway. I've got a 65 lb. Mantus with 165' of 3/8" G4 chain and and a bridle made up of 35' of 7/8" three strand on each side which attaches to a chain bridle that goes around the bow cleats. The end of the chain is also attached to a single snubber that goes back to the primary winch and then to the stern cleat. All of the tackle on the boat is enclosed in two layers of fire hose, a 2/12" which is in a 5". There are others that disagree with this approach and they may be right but this is the choice that I made and I'm sticking to it.


I'd worry that 2 layers of fire hose will insulate and cause the line to melt/weaken during all the anticipated flexing. Any reason why you don't use one layer?

EDIT -- After reading more of the thread, I see others mentioned melting already. I had snubber melt partly. that was back when I used garden hose, for a short period of time. It is something to worry about. Nowadays I wrap a huge cotton beach towel around the snubber (or anchor line) and wrap a separate light line around each end (and the middle). Wrapping the light line around the towel several times and tying it tight prevents it from slipping off. Wet cotton is not a good insulator. Yes, it eventually rubs through the many layers of towel, but that takes a long time. Someone had the idea of spacing in a length of chain at the end of the anchor line. That would really prevent chafing the best.

Regards,
Brad


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Hudsonian said:


> Eliminate the problem at the chocks by adding dyneema pendant extensions to your nylon pendants. They're not cheap but they work. https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/mooring-pendant-cyclone-endura-12-braid-44575.html


Bingo!

I have two secondary custom-made Dyneema 1" mooring pendants that get added to my un-equal length Yale Maxi-Moor pendants. I also run an additional primary pendant, of shorter length, made of Yale Maxi-Moor line, that takes the primary storm load. If this should fail then Dynema #1 comes into play, if Dyneema #1 should fail I then have Dyneema #2. If the storm last that long I don't want to be within 250 miles of this coast...:smile I also use Chafe-Pro chafe gear..

Please be aware that when connecting "eye to eye" there is a rcorrect way and an incorrect way. Nearly 80% of the _eye to eye_ connections I see for storm prep are done incorrectly.

This is the correct method:









Oh and the best protection for bad storms in to ensure that you insurance is paid and in-effect.


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## Deina (Aug 28, 2017)

> when connecting "eye to eye" there is a correct way and an incorrect way


I'll agree that this is the correct way, but I can't imagine any other way to do it.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Maine Sail said:


> Bingo!
> 
> I have two secondary custom-made Dyneema 1" mooring pendants that get added to my un-equal length Yale Maxi-Moor pendants. I also run an additional primary pendant, of shorter length, made of Yale Maxi-Moor line, that takes the primary storm load. If this should fail then Dynema #1 comes into play, if Dyneema #1 should fail I then have Dyneema #2. If the storm last that long I don't want to be within 250 miles of this coast...:smile I also use Chafe-Pro chafe gear..
> 
> ...


Good advice. My boat came through Hurricane Irene intact and on station. In Hurrican Sandy I found it a 1000 feet across the harbor still attached to it's mooring but, thankfully undamaged. I plan to extend my mooring pendant if another storm threatens.

On that Dyneema Eye attachment photo it sure looks like it could still slip off the main pendant. Is it only friction that keeps them attached? Maybe I'm missing something.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

As mentioned earlier, the nylon portion of my snubber is not encased in firehose. I have what I call a snubber extender made of chain that is in the 2 layers of fire hose except where it attaches to the cleats. Same as what others are using dynemma for. I think my anchor roller assembly would cut the dynemma as well. I think the weak point in my set up is the cleats themselves.


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## Lakepapa (Jul 21, 2015)

Eye looks like it's just about ready to pass over the BVI. God help them.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't mean to pick nits here, but the OP talked about "getting a mooring" and also mentioned "the hook."

Is it a mooring or is this a question about anchoring out?

My boat is on the river here on a 250 pound mushroom anchor with more than a few pounds of heavy chain etc... my anchor sure as heck isn't as stout as my mooring is.

Is this about mooring out or anchoring out, then?

Either way, sitting in a boat during a proper hurricane sounds dubious, regardless, but I was trying to be clear.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

'Nuff said.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

St. Martin?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

From what I understand it's Tortola - east of Road Town.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

That would account for all the cats.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Yikes. Wow.

Despite the expense, hopefully just damage to possessions, and nobody hurt in that whole pile.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Incidentally, that is one of the "best hurricane holes" in all of the Virgin Islands, with a *massive* mooring system for the charter fleets. Compare what you see in that pic to that Uma video.

Who's going to ride out one of these again?


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## VIEXILE (Jan 10, 2001)

Here's a nice before and after of Irma and Paraquita Bay, Tortola, the local "hurricane hole." Good luck with anyone that thinks you can "ride it out." 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/905493723190059008
Whoops, didn't see the whole thread, just some comment that "anchoring out in a hurricane has been done successfully" and it pissed me off. My apologies.

And it is just east of Road Town in Paraquita Bay. All charterboats.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The self righteousness from the fairly inexperienced is getting tiring. The OP is about leaving their boat on anchor or a mooring in Maryland, where no one expects a Cat 5 hurricane. No one has suggested it's a gimme or one's best option. However, get in the right protected hurricane hole and/or just far enough from they eye and you won't see hurricane strength winds in MD, which is exactly the correlation to the Uma video. Still, you better be well prepped for very high winds.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've resided in Maryland most of my life, never saw a cat 5 here, but we have had some winds over 100 MPH when struck by canes many years ago. The worst damage came with Agnes, mainly in the form of flooding. Agnes almost wiped out Port Deposit, Havre De Grace and Perryville. And, if Conowingo Dam would have went, the surge would have went all the way to Baltimore. I have some photos of the flooding in my archives, but too lazy to scan them into digital format. I was at Conowingo Dam when an engineering company was setting explosives to blow out a portion of the dam in order to save it from total destruction. Fortunately, It held up. When I shot the photos for a local newspaper, the entire dam was shaking violently as water actually flowed over US Route 1, which is 10 feet above the top of the spillways.

My boat has survived 2 hurricanes, the last of which submerged the entire marina. The boat did fine, but I was a nervous wreck watching it in the slip and hoping the lines were long enough to tolerate the rise in river level, which was about 12 feet.

Gary


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

travlin-easy said:


> I've resided in Maryland most of my life, never saw a cat 5 here, but we have had some winds over 100 MPH when struck by canes many years ago...


I agree with you Gary that when it comes to Irma, and judging by the forecasting models and those pics of Tortola I posted, Maryland is probably a pretty damn good place to be (apart from some potentially nasty surge in the Chessie). That's why the title of this thread is a little whacked. But it's also why the Uma video I (and Waterrat) posted earlier is so problematic. The Uma dude *wasn't* in Hurricane Matthew (despite the title), just like Maryland won't be in Hurricane Irma in all likelihood. The Uma dude even said in the opening of that video that his plan was for the "worst case scenario" - which he *didn't* face like those in Tiburon/Tortola/Barbuda/etc. faced. So that video, like the sentiment behind the title of this thread, is extremely misleading - and really should be dismissed as such in my refreshingly humble opinion.

The point in any scenario is to be as far away and protected from any hurricane as you can be. The best thing for Irma would probably be to anchor in Idaho. I really wish my boat was there now. I hope I'm blessed with your luck.

But I can absolutely guarantee one thing - *NO ONE will do "Hurricane Irma - On the Hook" and live to tell about it* - at least not until its dregs are in West Virginia.

Where are you now, BTW?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

See any similarities in the eastern cloud formations?



















Eddie Munch called it.


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## Charles88 (Sep 8, 2017)

The greatest hurricane ever recorded... that is kinda scary.


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