# San Diego to Florida



## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

I am contemplating purchasing a 44' Irwin in San Diego and sailing it to it's new home in Florida. Which part of Florida hasn't been determined yet as employment options for a cop would determine that. My question is, how long would it take to make that sail? Taking some time along the way, so as not to have it be a marathon run. Utilize the canal and then probably go straight across to Florida rather than stay coastal. What time of year should be avoided for this little journey? Any help is appreciated.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

BD,

Ohhhh, that is a big question. I will tell you that a friend of mine who was faced with that found it to be CHEAPER to just use Dockwise (not to mention the time off). IF you are going to do it, you beter get moving before too long. You don't want to be in that part of the gulf about June/July on. August, September, October in the middle of the gulf is Russian Roulete. You could also check into shipping by truck. I would not see a problem moving a 44 Irwin by truck from California to Florida. You could consier dropping it in Houston to save a few bucks and sailing across from there. When you count in the cost of dieselm, provisioning, broken crap along the way - it may not be that much cheaper. 

I can't help you with the job, but if you elect to setle in SW Florida, let me know and I can give you some yards, etc and thougths there.

Good luck.

- CD


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

*Thanks*

Thanks, CruisingDad, for the input. For some reason my peabrain didn't even think of trucking it part way (Houston) then sailing from there. Kinda hate to take a new-to-me boat out of the states for a 'shakedown'. Kind of like the thought of having US amenities if I have problems. That would also make it easier to just sail up the US coast rather than cut across the gulf. Let me know if you hear of any police forces wanting to give lots of money away to new (to them) police! Thanks again for the input.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

BD,

I would guess the trucking to be around 5k to Texas, plus about a grand or so rigging and derigging (each). Count on about 7k-7500 if you do most of it yourself. Really rough guess, because fuel changes, etc. Dockwise will be exponentially more than that (20k+) in my opinion, but I am using an educated guess from quotes in the past on both trucking and sending by ship. However, the trip you are talking about through the ditch and back up should not be taken lightly and would be a "questionable seamanship" decision for a shakedown cruise. Even the coast of Texas and across is tough. 

THose are just my opinions. I would truck it at least to Texas, maybe all the way to Florida. The cost difference may/may not be more than a couple 2-3k. However, if you want to get the trip of a lifetime and have lots of time and money, be all means, take the ditch and across. Stop in the Baha/Mexico, Gutemala, Yucatan, and up the islands. Had another set of friends that were outfitted for just that and went up the Baha - 5 years later were still there and never went to the islands. Fell in love with the Mexican people there and the beauty. If anyone has spent much time down there, I will give their first names (as some of the finest people/cruisers I have ever met) Larry & Beth on a 49 Defever.

If you want more info on that, or anything, just let me know. Nice boat, the 44. Hope she serves you well.

Fair winds...

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think that trucking it to Texas and then sailing it along the GOM is an excellent idea... 

I also think that if you have the time, money and crew, taking some short trips down the California coast to get familiar with the boat and then bring her to Florida via the canal sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime. 

However, I don't think you should do that trip unless you can get adequate time and crew to do the passage right. Unfortunately, the time window on the trip will be closing somewhat soon... so if you want to do it that way, you'll have to really get moving on it.


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Regarding taking more time to make it the trip of a lifetime, that is kind of what we are thinking. To put more information into the mix, what my wife and I are planning on doing is circumnavigating. We were going to wait while we built the bankroll to go, but Idaho, where we live, is too dang far from ocean sailing. We are bareboat certified and have sailed off San Diego, and last year trailered our Catalina 25 to San Carlos, Mexico and sailed in the Sea of Cortez for a week. It only further pushed this dream from a desire into a necessity. So, we are thinking of buying the boat, moving to a coastal area where we can still work and earn the cruising bankroll, then get 'out there' in about 6 to 7 years. If we sailed from San Diego to Florida it would merely be the beginning of our circumnavigation. Then we could build experience while living in Florida, looked at Lighthouse Point (Police Dept is hiring), and become totally familiar with our boat before heading out. Sailing up and down the California coast a bit before heading down towards Mexico sounds like prudent advice. I wouldn't whine about spending some time at Catalina! We wouldn't need to move the boat immediately, so we could wait for the correct weather windows. It is just such a huge leap for us right now, to leave great jobs, our big house, and jump into the unknown. But it has to happen sometime....

Thanks for the input. Nice to 'talk' to like-minded people. Not many sailors in Idaho! Especially big-boat sailors....


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

> If we sailed from San Diego to Florida it would merely be the beginning of our circumnavigation. Then we could build experience while living in Florida,


 pretty much can guaratee if you make that trip you will be intimately familiar with your boat by the time you reach florida. I think between the baja and the western carib/gulf and tehuanapec-(sp) you could see just about every condition imaginable. that trip would give you more expieriance than living and sailing in florida for 10 years maybe more.

Matt


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Experience is good! I will take it in any fairly safe and sane way I can. Now, just to make it happen....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

BDkorth...the Irwin44 is NOT a bluewater boat. I owned one and then bought a bluewater boat. It is a fine coastal cruiser and a great liveaboard but if you REALLY are planning to cross oceans in her I must warn you off. You either need to raise your buget or get a smaller boat. Sorry for the bluntness but I want to get your attention!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> BDkorth...the Irwin44 is NOT a bluewater boat. I owned one and then bought a bluewater boat. It is a fine coastal cruiser and a great liveaboard but if you REALLY are planning to cross oceans in her I must warn you off. You either need to raise your buget or get a smaller boat. Sorry for the bluntness but I want to get your attention!!


You need to be careful Cam, you never know what sort of malcontent might rise to the bait ! 

From looking at the drawings and reading a couple of reviews (one notably by Perry) I was wondering why you say that ? I'm not disagreeing with you cos I've never been on board an Irwin let alone sailed one offshore but they LOOK as if they would make a fine offshore cruiser. Layout doesn't look too bad except for that stupid little table, underwater shape seems OK , so what was it that let the thing down ?

ps - not all Irwin 44s had the silly little table, some were quite usable.


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Cam, I saw that you had owned one and traded up, way up! I looked on your webpage and enjoyed your pictures. I was curious to see your response to TDW's questions. I am only able to 'look' for boats online as there aren't any boats larger than a 27', typically, here in Southern Idaho. I have been on an Irwin 43, but liked the idea of the swim platform on the stern of the 44. I know that typically about 90% of my time will be in port, so I am placing alot of my emphasis on interior space and layouts. I have heard of much smaller, and much lighter built boats (Catalina's) circumnavigating and have read if a person can wait for the correct weather windows and not operate on a strict schedule most voyages can be made fair weather, fairly predictably. Again, my experience is on the very slight side, so I certainly appreciate input, but cannot afford the most top of the line bullet proof boats out there, although I certainly wish I could. Searching for a safe boat, roomy space, wife likes a walk around berth (nice in port, sucks at sea), and have to be able to buy it before I expire, or the dream does....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Look...you can circumnavigate in a bathtub. The question is how much luck do you need. 
I LOVED MY Irwin44 and it was a great cruising boat for my 2.5 years up and down the east coast and through the Bahamas/Keys and West Cost of Florida. ...and the drop down platform was great for loading groceries on to from the dink or snorkeling. The speed under power on the ICW was great and she is a fine sailor as well...BUT...BUT ...BUT she was designed with just that in mind. The hull is not rigid enough and the layup not robust enough, etc. etc. to stand up to the POUNDING that takes place in the open ocean during a gale or worse. If it was I would not have spent 3x the money on my Tayana. You need to be at sea in a good gale for a couple of days to TRULY understand this and when you coastal cruise...you can avoid this issue by ducking into port when the weather gets stinky. When you are a week away from your nearest landfall...you need a boat that can take the punishment...the Irwin 44 AND MOST MASS PRODUCTION BOATS can't do it. You must decide what you want more...space and comfort and a boat that can take you a lot of nice places OR bluewater adventures and a cramped (but comfortable at sea) existence. On your budget you CANNOT have both unless you are prepared to put yourself at considerably more risk than most of us are comfortable with. Figure around $200K as a *sailaway* price for a mid-40' boat from the 80's that is both roomy per your requirements and ocean capable. (I'm thinking of Hylas44 or Peterson44 here).


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Cam,

Great points, I certainly appreciate them. Darn that whole weighing money and desire to go against getting the safest boat I can to go in.... The general construction of the boats is one thing I can't discern over the listings on the internet. Gonna either have to learn it from people, like you, with experience, or get to the coast where I can get on, and sail the boats to see the different qualities, and get a feel for the different amenities on the boats. Kinda hard to do apples to apples comparisons from here.

Again, thanks for the input.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback Cam. Hylas or Peterson , both lovely boats. 

Cheers

TD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

BD,

I just read this. I have to admit the same eyebrow went up when you talked about a circum on a Irwin. No offense, I like the boat too, but in my opinion, Cam is right. 

Don't be discouraged. Forget that whole circum thing until you have rally put some time in on the water. I am here to say again: People get lost in the islands and baha. There is more to see in this hemisphere than you can do in a lifetime. I am not "against" people that want to circum, just don't underestimate what is on this side of the pond. If you have not lived on a boat and your offshore experience is limited, then take my advice: Get something that you will be comfortable on. A good liveaboard that will get you around the islands and "Coastal" cruising. Until you have weathered a few good storms offshore, you have no idea what you are getting into. It is ugly!!! Forget the whole weather window thing. Many of your offshore jaunts will be measured in weeks, not days. 

Don't give up on the dream. Get out of Iowa and get down to the coast. Find a nice boat to live on and get out there and start enjoying the life. A year living aboard and cruising will give you a nice inclination whether you want to circumnavigate - or reaffirm that listening to Marley off the coast of St. Lucia will be juuuusssstt fine.

My thoughts. If I can help, let me know.

- CD


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

CruisingDad,

Yes, that is what I have heard, to buy the boat and liveaboard her for a few years before casting off and disappearing over the horizon for good. The move to Florida won't happen until the boat is purchased, so the experience, except for chartering, will stagnate until then. The dilemma we have at this time is that a boat that is comfortable and affordable for living aboard does not always a true blue-water boat make. Trust me, the dream won't die off, not without life making a drastic intervention of some unfortunate fate. Just get a little impatient wanting to at least be coastal now, but don't want to get into a boat that I later have to try to sell in order to get my cruising boat. Let me know if you need crew in the future, I would love to get some more experience!

Thanks again


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Not a problem. I will say too that Florida is a great place to shop for boats. Real estate is out of sight (as is slippage) but rents are still pretty cheap. What about moving down there, getting a job, an apartment, then searching for a boat from there? If by some chance you cannot get what you want, then Maryland and Texas are just a short plane ride away. 

Just thoughts. Best to you. Fair winds. 

- CD


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

BD...you know that chances are something greater than 95% that you will NOT circumnavigate. I would suggest getting that big coastal cruiser and doing some sailing and exploring as far as it will take you. You could probably spend 5 or more years full time cruising the East Coast, Bahamas, Caribe...Eastern and Western and more time through the canal and Mexico and Baja and the West Coast...all in a boat that will coast you 1/3-1/2 the price of a similar sized bluewater boat. If after doing all that, you still have bluewater dreams...you won't lose that much on a well maintained older boat. Just another alternative to the bigger vs. blue-water dilemma.


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Cam, 

I will be glad to fill that 5%. Better than 1%! I have found some Petersons for approximately the same price as the Irwin 44, just hadn't ever stepped foot on one. It is sound advice to get a boat that can do it all rather than one that may hold me back at a later date. I am not going to buy a boat figuring on the failure of my circumnavigation dreams. I never have accomplished much when I make my decisions planning on not achieving my true goals. Never have been much of a second place is good enough kind of guy. However, I certainly could see that there are many beautiful and enjoyable places to go without crossing the pond. Hope to one day fill that little 5% void you spoke of, though. Nice thing about odds like that would be empty anchorages!

CruisingDad,

Simply living down there would help fuel the flames some. Couple that with living near a sailing community and having a close proximity to the boats for shopping and comparison purposes and one can certainly see benefits to relocating for the purpose of establishing myself while searching for the boat. Nice thing, rent, month to month... So used to a mortgage I don't tend to think outside that box. Thanks for the idea and feedback.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

*why buy on the west coast*

bdkorth -- i do not understand the need to buy on the west coast - in fla there are boats for sale as well as in north and south carolina - and let's not forget the caribbean - that would save you the sailing time and the cost - 
by the way are you plan on living aboard down here? if so you should begin to get your name on any waiting list as they may be quite long
chuck and soulmates


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

BD...go for it. Didn't mean to discourage you...only to try to give you some other options. You can send me a PM when you cross the Atlanitc! 
Second thing...if you've found a KP44 close in price to an Irwin 44 there is something wrong with it or someone stupid selling it...be sure you know which!!


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## bdkorth (Jun 4, 2002)

Cam,

That gave me a good chuckle first thing in the morning on a Friday! Yes, good to differentiate between them being stupid, or me being stupid...

Chuck,

I have been looking more on the west coast because it is more accessible to me for driving down to look at a boat. Florida or anyplace out there I am currently looking at airfare and travelling to areas unfamiliar to me. I have spent some time, with the Marine Corps, in the San Diego area, so I am familiar with it. I have begun shopping the Florida area at this point. A few Petersons out there of interest..... Now I just have to figure out why they are priced the way they are.... The slip issue is yet to be tackled. What type of wait have you typically experienced?

Thanks

Brad


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Here is a story for everyone interested: I just got called last week by Fort Myers Yacht Basin. My slip is ready. Got on the waiting list THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

For what ever its worth. 
This whole slip thing is really getting bad in FL. that being said when we got our boat. we started calling around and every one was saying there would be 
at least a year wait. one day not long after all the phone calls we decided to just drive around to the different marinas and have a look. the first one we stopped at and spoke to the owners face to face and told them what we were looking for miraculasly just happened to have one available. A week earlier it was a 18 month wait. the contusion I jumped to at that point was It,s better to stay off the phone and just go in person to find a slip.

Matt


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

bdkorth said:


> Cam, I saw that you had owned one and traded up, way up! I looked on your webpage and enjoyed your pictures. I was curious to see your response to TDW's questions. I am only able to 'look' for boats online as there aren't any boats larger than a 27', typically, here in Southern Idaho. I have been on an Irwin 43, but liked the idea of the swim platform on the stern of the 44. I know that typically about 90% of my time will be in port, so I am placing alot of my emphasis on interior space and layouts. I have heard of much smaller, and much lighter built boats (Catalina's) circumnavigating and have read if a person can wait for the correct weather windows and not operate on a strict schedule most voyages can be made fair weather, fairly predictably. Again, my experience is on the very slight side, so I certainly appreciate input, but cannot afford the most top of the line bullet proof boats out there, although I certainly wish I could. Searching for a safe boat, roomy space, wife likes a walk around berth (nice in port, sucks at sea), and have to be able to buy it before I expire, or the dream does....


You don't need a top of the line bullet proof boat out there. You need a boat that has been designed from the get go for off shore work NOT dockside entertaining.

I can't shout this loud enough. IF you intend to sail offshore, DO NOT make your boat buying decision based on the boats interior volume, swim platform, wine rack location or other items that are designed to sell boats. Base your decision on the boats hull/deck construction, hull shape, ability to heave to in a big blow, comfort in a seaway(not at the dock). Before you leave on the big adventure go out in 30+kts, 10-15 seas and learn to heave to, shorten sail and find the boats comfort zone. No matter much weather info you have you will encounter heavy weather. Be prepared and know what it feels like and how to handle it. Learn to navigate WITHOUT GPS. Get paper charts and learn to use them. And above all, when the **** hits the fan, learn that it's searoom you want, not closing the coast. Buy and read until it's ingrained, this John Vigor book. http://www.amazon.com/Seaworthy-Offshore-Sailboat-Essential-Features/dp/007137616X

Here's another John Vigor book you should read,
http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Small-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837323
In it he lists 20 small boats, some not much more than 1/2 the length of yours, and every one is much more capable for off shore work. Size has little to do with sea worthiness.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

We just finished a 2-year trip from Vancouver BC to Costa Rica. From there, we got on a Dockwise barge and got the boat to Florida lickety-split.

We did that trip after owning the boat for 5 years, and about 5,000 miles of cruising from Toronto down the ICW, and in the Pacific Northwest. [I hate to admit it, but we did all that _without_ any overnight sailing! Our first overnight was on the Pacific, southbound along the Washington coast.]

I would _not_ recommend heading into Central America with an unproven boat and inexperienced crew.

The problem isn't "seaworthiness". The weather forecasts are pretty reliable, and harbors are mostly 1-2 days apart. If you pick your seasons (after hurricane season ends in October, before "rainy season" which starts in May) and your days, the weather isn't a big concern.

The problem is getting the boat fixed when it breaks -- and it _will_ break!!! Your skills have to be up to the task, and you need an idea of what's _likely_ to break, so you can stock spares. Mexico doesn't have many cruising boats, and Central America has, basically, none.

So there are few marinas, few diesel mechanics, few fiberglass workers, few stainless-steel welders.

I'd truck it to Florida if it can be trucked. There, it's easy to get experience _safely_, with lots of backup services.

Then -- when you know the boat and yourselves -- it's time to take off.

Another alternative would be to spend a year or so in Mexico, enjoying Mexico and getting to know the boat (and yourselves). You'd have to get down the Baja peninsula to Mazatlan (perhaps with the Baja Ha-Ha). From there to Acapulco, you'll be in settled country with fine sailing.

The trip from the Panama Canal to Florida is basically an upwind bash, against Caribbean trade winds and waves. That's what decided us to use Dockwise to get from Costa Rica to Florida.

Charles

PS -- You should get a copy of Cornell's "World Cruising Routes". It is invaluable for this kind of planning.


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