# P.Seacraft 37 or Valiant 37



## castoff (Jan 19, 2007)

Since my original post in January my wife and I have a short list of two boats, the Pacific Seacraft 37 and the Valiant 37. My wife may have a slight leaning towards the Valiant, I prefer the PS.

We would appreciate any observations relating to the two boats.

Also, does anyone know how much of an issue the aluminium fuel tanks are in the PS 37 and how easily any problems can be rectified.


----------



## castoff (Jan 19, 2007)

Thanks JRP


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Never, ever flush the aluminium fuel tanks with caustic soda to clean them.

It will not just clean them.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

My experience with aluminum diesel tanks is that they all leak sooner or later and it is NOT a big or expensive thing to replace them..unless you have to cut stuff out to get at them. This can be quite expensive! 
If tanks are quite old, then you might want to replace them before they leak or at least pressure test them to assure they are currently solid.


----------



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I had read somewhere that the tanks in Pacific Seacraft boats are typically very easily accessible. I've not read about access on the Valients. This is strictly "what I read somewhere", but I thought I'd throw it in.....

Fred


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I cannot speak to the changes at PS since the ownership change, but I will say that Valiant is alive and kicking - still making boats in Texas. Is that resource worth leaning toward the V? It would be for me.

I know the guys there if you want to PM me I will give you some resources to contact.

- CD


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

To my previous comments (quoted below, made in the "Offshore Cruiser" thread), I would add that the relative success of these two models could be a consideration. I don't know how many Valiant 37s were built, but PSC built something in the neighborhood of 300 Crealock 37s. You can usually find around 20 or so on the used market at any given time. By contrast, there are only a few Valiant 37/39s listed in Yachtworld.com right now. So I think you will have a grater selection, from the standpoint of age/price/condition, with the PSC Crealock 37.



JohnRPollard said:


> My preference would go to the Crealock 37, having now owned two Pacific Seacraft models. The build quality is very high. They are similar boats but there are obvious differences: You will appreciate the security of the raised bulwarks; and the wide, clear side-decks free of shroud penetrations; and the prop protected in an aperture within the skeg; and the at-the-ready anchor system; and the additional engine access through the removable cockpit floor; etc.
> 
> The bilge-mounted aluminum fuel tanks can suffer if in frequent contact with bilge water. However, replacing a PSC fuel tank is usually a relatively simple matter. In most instances, they designed and installed the tanks so they can be easily removed and swapped in the event replacement becomes necessary. It is not anything that should cause you concern. If you have to do it, pull the tank and bring it to a welding shop and have them replicate it. If you need suggestions for where to have this done, join Sailnet's PSC e-mail list-serve and there are owners there who can provide guidance.
> 
> Good luck to you.


----------



## Andyman (Jul 20, 2007)

Would the Valiant 37 be a candidate for a live aboard?


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Andyman said:


> Would the Valiant 37 be a candidate for a live aboard?


You can live aboard anything, just about. If the boat is simply for a liveabord, I think any Valiant is a poor choice.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

I thought the blister problems were confined to the 40s in one plant and certain years. I for one have forgotten the original post so what your specific wants were.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

NONE of the 37's had blister problems, only A FEW V40's were affected. 
I can get you s/n's of the 40's if you'd like. 
The 37's were built by Nordic, not Uniflite.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, IIRC, the Valiant 40s affected had used a fire-retardant resin in their layup. Believe it was in the early to mid 1970s.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

When I was boat shopping I came across a Valiant 40 with significant blistering. I think it was a mid 80s boat and I was told that was when they had those problems.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

here we go...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1342

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=72290

Between 1975 and 1979 Bill and Mary Black sailed hull number 107 around the world and were awarded the 
coveted Blue Water Medal by the Cruising Club of America. While the Valiant 40 is well proven as a cruising boat, with numerous circumnavigations to its credit, its record in short-handed distance races has cemented its reputation as an ocean going thoroughbred. In 1976 Francis Stokes' Moonshine acquitted herself well in the OSTAR, being the first monohull to finish the single-handed race from Plymouth England to Newport, RI. Stokes sailed Moonshine in the 1980 race as well and also won both legs of the Bermuda One-Two races in 1978. Dan Byrne, an inexperienced sailor, sailed hull number 101 in the inaugural 1982-83 B.O.C. Around the World Race. 
Mark Schrader's 1983 non-stop circumnavigation in Resourceful was the fastest ever at the time. 
More recently, Valiant 40s and 42s have faired well in events ranging from the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers to the 
Caribbean 1500 where it has won its class several times.

But the original Valiant 40 does have its warts, or I should say, its blisters. 
According to Stan Dabney, who has owned hull number 108, Native Sun for 28 years, the well-known account of Valiants blistering because Uniflite switched to fire 
retardant resin, is only part of the story. Dabney claims that the blisters occurred when Uniflite switched to an inferior resin. "Like other builders, Uniflite was already using a fire retardant resin, but during the energy crunch in the mid '70s, some resin wasn't up to snuff." 
Dan Spurr, the former Editor of Practical Sailor, wrote in his book, Heart Of Glass, that the questionable resin had a trade name of Hetron. 
For a run of over 100 hulls, the Valiant 40's builders used inferior resin, leading to the need for substantial aftermarket repairs on those boats. 
The results of boats molded with this flawed resin were not pretty.
While some Valiant 40s were horribly scarred with deep, 
structural fiberglass blisters up to 10 inches in diameter and requiring relamination, others experienced cosmetic blemishes restricted to the gelcoat layer. 
Still, you should be aware that boats built between 1976 and 1981, or hull numbers 120 to 249 
all had some degree of osmotic blisters. 
As a result, a 1975 used Valiant 40 is often more valuable than a 1980 model. Worstell solved the problem for good in 1984 by switching to an isophthalic resin.

So does this mean you should avoid Valiant 40s built during this period? Absolutely not. 
Although most marine surveyors claim that only way to permanently fix a badly blistered boat is to 
completely peel the hull and re-fiberglass it, in most cases the blisters are simply unsightly. Blistered Valiant 40s are in some ways, one of the best values on the used boat market. 
And besides, by now many of older 40s have been properly repaired at some point.

Dabney, who today owns Offshore Atlantic Yachts in Riviera Beach, FL, notes the market is very healthy for used Valiant 40s. "We sell eight to 10 Valiant 40s a year, 
blister and non blister boats. They're a proven world cruiser that can be bought for a third the price of a new boat. If you have $100,000 to spend and want to sail around the world in a fast, safe, seakindly boat, an old Valiant 40 is hard to beat."


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Actually, as much as I really like the Valiant 37's, I had a friend here in Annapolis who had one that had blisters that extended from the top of the cabin top to the bottom of the keel. He did the repairs himself, sanding down through the gelcoat, and building up WEST System epoxy. Ultimately he sailed that boat most of the way around the world and much of the way back again. The last that I heard of Don, roughly 20 years after he took off, he and the Valiant 37 were still in Indonesia somewhere.

Esprit 37's (as the Valiant 37 model was called) could and did sometimes have blisters. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

I notice that in the first link CardiacPaul posted is a note by JeffH where he mentions seeing the blister problem in a 37 as well as the 40.

I once looked at a Valiant 32 from the late 70's-early 80's vintage that had also been "peeled" due to a problem with extreme blistering attributed to the fire-retardant resins. 

By now most of the "problem" Valiants have been corrected as best they can. Along the way somebody had to eat it big time.

In case anyone is browsing this old thread in months or years to come, the issue of catastrophic blistering being discussed here is restricted only to certain early vintage Valiants and does not pertain to the Valiant sailboats built in Texas.

Edit: Sorry, JeffH hadn't posted when I began typing.


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

P.S. This article seems to confirm that the resin problem extended beyond just the V40:

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/blister.asp


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

John, 
Uniflite "ate it big time" sealed class action deal. 

It was my understanding that Nordic (builder of the Esprit 37) was started by some of the Uniflite family management, that they did not use the same resin goo that caused the problems on the Uniflite boats. 
perhaps someone can get Dabney on the phone?


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

CardiacPaul,

I'll bet that sealed class action settlement would make an interesting read today. I wonder if it was sealed in perpetuity, and if some participant might be brave enough to post it? Anyway, long after that occured, I would ocassionally see Valiant's in boatyards getting peeled -- I can't imagine Uniflite was still paying those bills in the 1990s.

Also I thought I read somewhere that not all the 37s were built by Nordic (as the Esprit), but some were also built by Valiant/Uniflite. I won't swear to that, it's just one of those vague impressions stuck in my cobwebs.

Someone with a more vested interest than me will have to place that call...


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

That is right, our Valiant 37 Esprit was built by Uniflite. It has the blisters, but without them, we couldn't have afforded the boat.


----------

