# Do you use dinghy lights?



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Flame on. I have them, but I don't usually turn them on, particularly the white omni directional one, which illuminates inside the dinghy and destroys night vision.

The other night, I was riding back to our mooring after dinner in Edgartown Harbor. I mention the location for those familair with the fairly small harbor that is almost entirely surrounded by homes. It is a crystal clear night and I point out that you can see the outline of the Milky Way in the sky.

With your eyes even slightly adjusted, you can see all the boats from the light coming from the houses alone. Your mooring is going to be between the two shores, even a stinkpotter could figure that out. Granted, another may not see us well, but a collision is impossible to conceive and I do have a light if it was necessary to identify ourselves.

I ask because on our way to our mooring, there is another dinghy with all their lights and a search light on! The are scanning the harbor like they were searching for a lost baby. Naturally the sweep ends up repeatedly in my eyes, ruining my night vision. As they get closer and closer, they find the dastardly target they just knew was lurking in the dark. Us! The dinghy with no lights. Their search light focuses on us like an escaping prisoner at the tree line. I was trying to decide whether to put my hands up or open fire. We are on opposing parallel course passing about 100 ft apart! What the heck are they doing. I have to throttle back, wait for the inquisition to end, regain my night vision and proceed. 

The moral.... if you can't see at night, how about not dragging the rest of us down with you. However, I will bet you can see much better with zero light than some may think. In fact, youll be able to see more than just the focus of your search light beam. Old night combat trick was to look about 10 degrees away from what you're trying to see in the dark. Your peripheral sight is much better in the dark than straight on. Try it, you'll be surprised.

Next rant installment from this cruise.... Radio checks on ch 16.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Can't say I'll always use mine, particularly in a remote spot with no other traffic about... But in some areas - like South Florida, in particular - a failure to display proper lights, you're simply making yourself a target of a 'visit' from the water cops, and a guaranteed citation...

My stern Aqua Signal portable light is mounted on a pole set in a bracket on the transom, well above and behind my eye level, so presents no issue at all... Agreed, any light that seriously impairs your night vision, is likely to be more of a detriment...

Definitely worthwhile to be carrying a powerful handleld searchlight, if for no other reason to deter the annoying use of one by another vessel. A few seconds of a 2 million candlepower light trained directly at them usually does the trick...

Few things more aggravating than the practice of powerboats running around at night with their bow-mounted remote searchlights turned permanently on, and scanning all over the place... Searchlights can be like bow thrusters - most people use them WAY more than necessary... (grin)

You're absolutely right, few people really understand how effective their night vision can be, _if they'd only give it a chance..._ Hence, my objection to the current trend of mounting huge electronics arrays mounted at the helm, particularly when enclosed within something like a full-cockpit enclosure... The extent to which you're truly 'flying blind' can be astonishing...


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I always use mine as I have a friend with no leg, another friend with no toe and another whom I never met and now will never be able to untill I get to heaven.

I have two torches with glowing red handle on one and green on the other torch. 
A torch is good because one doesnt get the light in ones own eyes.

They are also good projectiles to chuck at loonines who shine spot lights!


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Your thread title is deceiving, I assummed at first you were referring to running lights, not spot light.

I have always had an issue with most smaller inflatables that they do not design a better way to mount running lights on these things. My old Avon nor my new Achilles have a way to mount a bow light cleanly. Sure you could glue something but it will look like crap so when we need a bow light some holds it there, until I can find a better way. I have even complained to both companies with no reply from either. Seems silly that they can't at the very least mold a holder for a small battery powered bow light?


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Shawn, totally agree. We have a couple of velcro strips on the bow which we can use for the red/green flashlight at night, and yet which won't be a problem when we have the dinghy upside down on deck for a passage. Someday those strips will also be able to mount our cannon...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I row, so do not display r/g running lights but I always carry a flashlight to warn off other boats. In busy harbors, the main problem is that some people go WAY too fast in their motorized dinks. Darting in between boats, up on plane, at 15-20 knots at night is inviting collision, *possibly with me!* +1 on the night vision.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

During our BVI charter, SunSail supplied the ACR C-light for nighttime dinghy use:



I guess they expected someone to hold it up like a torch (that's what we did). I didn't see any dinghy in BVI with full red/green/white nav lights. Of course, that's a different country, and I cannot vouch for its compliance with international or US COLREGs. Most people seemed to just take handheld flashlights (NOT high intensity floodlights) and shine them briefly at any nearby boats as a warning that "I am here."

In St. Thomas (Red Hook) a few years ago, I noticed some dinghies that had a little post on top of the outboard with a single fixture that showed red/green/white nav lights. Having the red/green on the motor has two problems - it's not on the bow, and driver/passengers would obscure anyone's view of the lights. But it's what they did.

I look forward to other answers here for what boats do in US waters (especially the Chesapeake). I've recently configured a little raft with motor mount and trolling motor for occasional use as a dinghy in protected waters. Someday we might want to go to a restaurant and return after dark, so I'm curious over what the COLREGs are, what people actually do, and what the authorities enforce.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Yep, we got some dingy running lights that we don't always deploy. We also sometimes have been know to run with scissors  

I think Colregs calls shinning a light in the other guys wheelhouse "embarrassing
the vessel" (rule 36). Always liked that phrase

You are sailing in our world. Yes VHF 16 can get pretty annoying with radio checks and "xxxx habormaster, we are the pretty white boat looking for a mooring for the evening" when xxxx is 50 miles away, and the caller is at 25 watts. At least we all know where the pretty white boat is staying tonight.

Enjoy our neighborhood Mini! At least the water is warm, and the SW'er has been blowing pretty darn nice!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I agree with T37Chef about lighting an inflatable. I would love to find a usable set of running lights for our inflatable, so we could be seen by others.
The reality, as mentioned above, is that the all around legal white light blinds the operator of the dink pretty significantly, whereas running w/ sailboat lights (red/green/stern only) is a much more intelligent set up for dinghy operation. You can be seen from any point, your direction is apparent and unless those seeing you and assume you are foiling on an AC 72, you are probably a dinghy.
Of course, when I commuted to work (12 noon to 10 PM) in Charleston in a my dinghy lit as above, I was pulled over by a water cop for improper lighting. "I couldn't see you" was his comment. "Funny, did you stop me because you are telepathic?" I wanted to reply, but didn't (I was older and wiser then). Explaining about the all around light blinding me (lots of crab buoys in Charleston Harbor) fell on deaf ears. No ticket, but a truly unpleasant experience.
Here in the West Indies the only place we have to worry about being legally lit (or carrying anchor, life jackets, etc.) is in the USVI, and it doesn't matter if you are a US boat or not, by the way. Every other country leaves these decisions in your hands and I suppose if you get hurt it will be your responsibility, too. 
All that being said, I would very much like to be, at the very least, lit with a red/green that was convenient. The engine mounted lights, as mentioned above, are often obscured by the occupants of the dink and usually get broken pretty quickly. Any non-mounted pole set up will vanish from your dink in a day or two unless you want to lug it around every time you go ashore.
We do all right presently, using a flashlight with a lit handle, but you can't even imagine the unlit dinghy traffic at night down here, in some of the most popular anchorages.
There are a lot of creative folks on this forum; how about someone coming up with an LED red/green set up that uses the 3 triple A battery cartridge or one A that we can put together from easily found parts and is small enough to put in my girlfriend's purse.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

T37Chef said:


> I have always had an issue with most smaller inflatables that they do not design a better way to mount running lights on these things. My old Avon nor my new Achilles have a way to mount a bow light cleanly. Sure you could glue something but it will look like crap so when we need a bow light some holds it there, until I can find a better way. I have even complained to both companies with no reply from either. Seems silly that they can't at the very least mold a holder for a small battery powered bow light?


I use an Aqua Signal bow light with a suction cup... of course, a suction cup is essentially worthless on any surface that is not absolutely clean, any amount of salt spray or dew will render it useless... And as I often have dinghy chaps on my tender anyway, I use a bridle of shock cord running to the bow handle, and the pair of attachment points for the spray cover/bow bag that works just fine...

There a new series of LED dinghy/emergency nav lights from NaviSafe, they look pretty slick... Unfortunately, looks like they don't make a dedicated bow light, but only a tricolor, so the white portion will kill your vision unless elevated... Pricey, naturally - but the only ones I know of that have been CG approved:

Defender.com Search Results: navisafe: Navigation Lights

A product line of mounts from Railblaza includes a mount that can be glued onto hypalon or PVC, and used in conjunction with such lights...

RAILBLAZA RIBPort with StarPort Multifunctional Mount


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

JonEisberg said:


> I use an Aqua Signal bow light with a suction cup... of course, a suction cup is essentially worthless on any surface that is not absolutely clean, any amount of salt spray or dew will render it useless... And as I often have dinghy chaps on my tender anyway, I use a bridle of shock cord running to the bow handle, and the pair of attachment points for the spray cover/bow bag that works just fine...
> 
> There a new series of LED dinghy/emergency nav lights from NaviSafe, they look pretty slick... Unfortunately, looks like they don't make a dedicated bow light, but only a tricolor, so the white portion will kill your vision unless elevated... Pricey, naturally - but the only ones I know of that have been CG approved:
> 
> ...


Those look pretty slick. I use the Aquasignal version of this type of setup -- i.e., permanent mount glued to the bow with a red/green light that goes in it. I might like this design better, as the Aquasignal one requires the use of a pin to hold the light in place. For the all around light, it mounts on a pole that clamps to the stern engine mount. It works pretty well although if you don't want to leave them on the dink you have to take them with you. Sort of like carrying two decent sized flashlights, and the all around light actually works pretty well for that purpose. They are LEDs, so last pretty long. They actually got a lot of use during the 12 days we had without power after Sandy -- as nightlights for the kids.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

I use these:
Clip on Boat Light Navigation LED Marine Sail Portable dingy Sea Kayak Zodiak JS | eBay

The clips will break, so I use velcro. They may or may not be legal, but they do show up well and are better than nothing.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Definitely worthwhile to be carrying a powerful handleld searchlight, if for no other reason to deter the annoying use of one by another vessel. A few seconds of a 2 million candlepower light trained directly at them usually does the trick.


Now, that's the kind of advice I was looking for.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Flame on. I have them, but I don't usually turn them on, particularly the white omni directional one, which illuminates inside the dinghy and destroys night vision.......





T37Chef said:


> Your thread title is deceiving, I assummed at first you were referring to running lights, not spot light.....?


I meant that I don't use running lights, which seemed to cause some yahoo to light me up, like a felon from a police helicopter with their spot light.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

If you don't use at least a white light that can be seen from 360-degrees while dinghying at night in Marathon, FL, you're in for a rude awakening - a hefty fine and no warnings. A lot of folks easily solved the light in the cockpit problem by mounting the light at the top of a 4-foot pole attached to the transom, and attaching a small, plastic dinner plate directly beneath the light. This prevented all the spillover light from entering the cockpit, thereby preserving your night vision. I should have taken a photo of that, but unfortunately, it's one of the many I didn't shoot.

Cheers,

Gary


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

travlineasy said:


> If you don't use at least a white light that can be seen from 360-degrees while dinghying at night in Marathon, FL, you're in for a rude awakening - a hefty fine and no warnings. A lot of folks easily solved the light in the cockpit problem by mounting the light at the top of a 4-foot pole attached to the transom, and attaching a small, plastic dinner plate directly beneath the light. This prevented all the spillover light from entering the cockpit, thereby preserving your night vision. I should have taken a photo of that, but unfortunately, it's one of the many I didn't shoot.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Is that true for unmotorized dinks in Marathon?


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Don't use them on the dink because I haven't been dinking after dark in a while but I got these for the Dovekie. From Attwood.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Flame on. I have them, but I don't usually turn them on, particularly the white omni directional one, which illuminates inside the dinghy and destroys night vision.
> 
> The other night, I was riding back to our mooring after dinner in Edgartown Harbor. I mention the location for those familair with the fairly small harbor that is almost entirely surrounded by homes. It is a crystal clear night and I point out that you can see the outline of the Milky Way in the sky.
> 
> ...


Funny

Sorry Minnie you caused the incident. You were traveling unsafe. If your own light blinds you either slow down, or put a plate below the light like we have.
( ours ) is attached to the stern on a strut 4 ft high with a plate under the light so it isn't blinding in the dinghy. We also have a R/G velcroed to the bow

You complain about the boat who lit you up even though you are clearly in the wrong running dark. He had his lights you don't. He can obviously hear another motor (yours) but doesn't know where it is. Doesn't want to run into it. How does he know its a dinghy? Maybe its a fishing boat running dark? Am I missing something here?

The point is not how well you can see in the dark. The point is that you ARE *seen* in the dark. Not just seen, but your lights identify your direction and if a collision is possible.

To me running dark is irresponsible and an unsafe practice and endangers your boat as well as others. It makes no difference its a dinghy and if I remember correctly you have a large dinghy with a large hp engine.

Arent you as a pilot of an aircraft are you required to have lights on at night in an aircraft flying? Are all aircraft required to or just jets?

I don't advocate those search lights either. However If I head a motor coming at me and I not see any lights I would light you up also. In todays age you lucky people don't think you are running and boarding their boats and don't have a shot gun loaded.


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## CaptTony (May 22, 2011)

Anyone who has spent any time in the service on the ground knows unaided night vision is better than a light, which ruins night vision and focuses vision in a narrow range. Having said that, rules are rules on lighting up the dinghy. You need at least a 360 degree white light.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Chef, should have known the likely source of the first flame I predicted at the beginning of my OP.

Seems you missed the description of precisely how lit the harbor is and how the offending boater was limiting, not improving their sight.

I will rest comfortably knowing that 90% of the dinghies around me have no running lights, but yours will be on.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

fryewe said:


> Don't use them on the dink because I haven't been dinking after dark in a while but I got these for the Dovekie. From Attwood.
> 
> View attachment 14830
> 
> ...


Exactly what we have.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i used to use em, then i left usa and sd bay, looked for them last year, but they were rotted out and no longer usable..lol they donot last long for the money ....
is much more pleasant here without the water nazis...
and do keep a good flashlight on ye at all times if gonna be out in a dink at night--
pangas come out of no where and is good if they know where ye are, so they wont hit you. 
as for finding ones own boat in darkness--is why gods made unique lighting for you to use as cockpit or anchor lighting so you appear as a different thing to hit than the neighbors....in a crowded anchorage it can make a lot of difference.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Chef, should have known the likely source of the first flame I predicted at the beginning of my OP.
> 
> Seems you missed the description of precisely how lit the harbor is and how the offending boater was limiting, not improving their sight.
> 
> I will rest comfortably knowing that 90% of the dinghies around me have no running lights, but yours will be on.


No one flamed you poor sir  just disagreed with you that's all.

I have anchored and also been to Edgartown. Not sure what your point is. I agreed with your comment and Captain Tony that you can see at night well without light

Again the purpose is to be seen by others. That's the safe thing to do. And yes mine will be on

I guess I need to ride with a 2,000,000 candlepower flashlight now in that area. Who knows what is speeding around in the dark Least I will spot it before it slices us in half:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

I once forget my light and was doing 15 knots in the dark with my excellent night vision and clearly moonlit water avoiding all obstacles with ease unitl I almost got T-Boned by ANOTHER dinghy going 20 knots + in the dark that did not see me 

BTW - airplanes ARE required to have running lights no matter what size. They used to just be the same as a boat, but it wa quickly discovered that fixed lights blend right in to ground lights and starlight, so a flashing light was added and then later on strobes.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Could we get some clarification on what the REQUIREMENTS are? Then let's separate that from the best practices that may go over and above the requirements - or choose to not meet them due to night vision or lax enforcement in certain areas.

My understanding is that in US waters, an unmotorized (rowing) dinghy only requires a flashlight, not a 360 degree white light nor a red/green bow light.

A motorized boat dinghy would require red/green bow light plus a 360 degree white light on the stern. Technically, a tricolor red/green/white light like sailboats use would not be sufficient because the white is neither 360 degrees nor at the stern.

Is that correct?

It could be argued that a rowing dinghy needs to be lighted more than a motorized boat, because it's not going to be able to get out of another boat's way. But that's not how I read the regs.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> I meant that I don't use running lights, which seemed to cause some yahoo to light me up, like a felon from a police helicopter with their spot light.


Ok, I think I got it now...you dont use running lights, not even a 360 white light on your motorized dingy at night but you are pissed that someone lite you up with their spot light?


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Rulz is rulz so you have to show a light (or lights). Sometimes it may make sense not to show a light - a well lit anchorage or perhaps in a remote anchorage where you are enjoying the moon - but legal it is not.

If you choose not to show lights in the wrong place you may find yourself starting a new thread about legalizing drugs after you're hassled by (fill in the agency) that uses their FLIR or night vision to spot you and wonder if your lights are out because you are hauling contraband.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I confess we do not use lights when rowing although yes we do carry a torch but always carry (lights that is) when motoring. I'm afraid that under power too much happens too quickly not to have lights. 

(calrification ... if rowing across a channel or in open water I'd have lights even when rowing but for shore to mooring not so.)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Last time I checked, running lights were required for all vessels, powered, sail or rowed. You may want to take a look at 




If you want specifics for each state, especially Florida, try rowing through Boot Key Harbor in January at night with no lights at all. Someone in a uniform will politely explain the law to you, chapter and verse, while he or she writes you a citation that will really piss you off. Same holds true with anchor lights. There were a lot of unhappy campers that thought because they were on a mooring ball they didn't need anchor lights - WRONG! Yep, they were cited as well.

Good luck on staying alive very long while running that dink at night with no lights.

Gary


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I just glanced around the dinghy dock. There are exactly 37 dinghies. I see running lights of any kind on 4.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you Coquina! These may be exactly what I am looking for and if I still have internet tomorrow (and I'm not too busy fending off the drag-fest) as Chantal passes by, I shall order some.
For our part, the point is not legality, but being seen, period. And if fortune continues to smile upon us we will never have to deal with the water nazis of Florida, Marathon in particularly, ever again.
Viva the freedom of self responsibility that being outside the US brings.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Whats exactly is your point Minnie? My running lights are not on the dingy when its hanging on the davits for reasons stated previously, f'in dingy manufactures apparently think like you and don't use running lights (until you get into the larger, faster dingies/tenders).

My all around white light and r/g bow light are in a dingy bag thats is kept in a locker on the mother ship until the dingy is deployed.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Capta, the lights regulations are International - not US. And, those regulations have been around for more than a century. Guess you just have been very fortunate in that someone has not run over your dink in the middle of the night, or someone in another country just don't care if you get run over and die.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> Last time I checked, running lights were required for all vessels, powered, sail or rowed. You may want to take a look at Navigation light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> If you want specifics for each state, especially Florida, try rowing through Boot Key Harbor in January at night with no lights at all. Someone in a uniform will politely explain the law to you, chapter and verse, while he or she writes you a citation that will really piss you off. Same holds true with anchor lights. There were a lot of unhappy campers that thought because they were on a mooring ball they didn't need anchor lights - WRONG! Yep, they were cited as well.
> 
> ...


Straying Off Topic I know but re the anchor light when moored and nav lights on a dinghy .... they are purely local regulations correct ?






See section re rowing boats and lights. According to the Colregs only a torch is required.

Now I don't see confirmation of this in the ColRegs but as far as I am aware if on a registered mooring no light is required nor is one required when anchored in a designated anchorage. Not to say don't light up just to be safe.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Not sure about rowed, but under power, the international regs apply, at least that's my interpretation. I could be wrong, though. My wife tells me that all the time. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> Not sure about rowed, but under power, the international regs apply, at least that's my interpretation. I could be wrong, though. My wife tells me that all the time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


You too eh ? Thing that really bugs me is that she of course is usually correct.

Actually though .... power under seven metres and max speed no more than seven knots must carry white light.

So despite what they say size really does matter. I guess she was right again.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> If you want specifics for each state, especially Florida, try rowing through Boot Key Harbor in January at night with no lights at all. Someone in a uniform will politely explain the law to you, chapter and verse, while he or she writes you a citation that will really piss you off. Same holds true with anchor lights. There were a lot of unhappy campers that thought because they were on a mooring ball they didn't need anchor lights - WRONG! Yep, they were cited as well.


Here's some further explanation of the confusing situation that exists in the Boot Key Harbor mooring field...

Cruiser's Net » Archive » Where Anchor Lights Are Required in The Florida Keys ? It May Surprise You


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

T37Chef said:


> Whats exactly is your point Minnie? My running lights are not on the dingy when its hanging on the davits for reasons stated previously, f'in dingy manufactures apparently think like you and don't use running lights (until you get into the larger, faster dingies/tenders).
> 
> My all around white light and r/g bow light are in a dingy bag thats is kept in a locker on the mother ship until the dingy is deployed.


I don't get what is so unclear to you. I mentioned dinghies witnessed at the transient dinghy dock, not on their davits.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Here's a clever solution to the problem of mounting bow/side lights... Not entirely copacetic, as they can be visible from points further aft than a legal sidelight should be, but still - certainly better than nothing...

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Life Gear LED Glow Sticks, a nav light solution for tenders?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

tdw said:


> Straying Off Topic I know but re the anchor light when moored and nav lights on a dinghy .... they are purely local regulations correct ?
> 
> [.


Not local, federal regs. Local can be even more strict;

Navigation Rules Online

Rule 23 - Power-driven Vessels Underway Return to the top of the page
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit (click on icon to see picture Power Driven Vessel Underway 50m or greater 
(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so;Power Driven Vessel Underway less than 50m
(iii) sidelights: and
(iv) a sternlight.

(b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in nondisplacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) Air Cushion Vessel in Displacement Mode of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light, where it can best be seen. Air Cushion Vessel in Nondisplacement Mode

[(c) A WIG craft only when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit a high intensity all-round flashing red light.]

(c | d) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights. Power Driven Vessel less than 12m

*[(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights.] Power Driven Vessel less than 7m* [(iii) the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light.]


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> I don't get what is so unclear to you. I mentioned dinghies witnessed at the transient dinghy dock, not on their davits.





> I will rest comfortably knowing that 90% of the dinghies around me have no running lights, but yours will be on. Minnewaska


Let me clarify for you Minnie,

I think understood Shawn's point was that most people do not leave the nav lights attached to their dinghies whether in davits or at the transient dock. They can be easily stolen, so the fact you don't see them doesn't mean they don't have them.

We store ours in a bag under the seat and use them only needed.


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

The COLREGS (section 23) state "A power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots (13 km/h; 8 mph) must be capable of showing a white light"

To me, this can be interpreted as "any powered boat under 7 metres not planing" and the description of the lights makes no mention to being both "all round" nor required to be "constantly lit". The sticking point obviously is that this clause implies that this technically doesn't apply to a vessel capable of exceeding a 7 knot limit (i.e. planing), even if it does not exceed that limit whilst travelling at night.

My tender can only exceed 7 knots if dropped out of an airplane, so my solution is to wear one of those LED headlamps that has red, green and white lights. I use the red light to retain night vision (and try not to look to the right whilst doing so lol) and I can switch on the white torch part if I see/hear another boat nearby or when approaching my own boat (so I can see what I'm doing!). I should note that where my boat is moored is so dark that on a cloudy moonless night with a bit of breeze causing haze that it is impossible to see a boat, white or otherwise, outside of about 10 metres so their is a definite advantage to retaining as much night vision as possible.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

No. Running lights on dinghys are for pussies.

Marathon soundsike a POS by the way. The water doesn't need excessive ticketing and enforcement. Another thread that makes me glad today I'm not in Florida.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Firstly, let me say that when a thread starts with "The Rules state . . . ." I just move on. When I need to read the rules I read the rules.

I have often thought about getting one of those caps the kids use to wear with a propeller on top and replace the propeller with a light. That way I could have an all-round white and preserve my night vision and still see things around me.

Or what about a light INSIDE the inflatable tubes - make the whole dink glow!! that'll scare the bejesus out of the midnight zoomers?

I agree with the sentiments that being able to see things coming at me, lit or unlit, is more important than others seeing me. So for me preservation of my night vision is prime. I have a dink that can get up a good turn of speed but at night I generally travel slowly. That gives me the ability to get out of the way of the things that are coming at me and also avoid things that are standing still. If I can see it, I can avoid it. If my night vision is destroyed by an all-round white in my dink then I probably won't avoid it. I don't know how to make that sound complicated. It's too simple.

So if there is a rule that says I MUST have an all-round white in my dink, I'm afraid I'm going to break it. You don't have to worry about seeing me, I'll see you.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

I hit someone doing EXACTLY as you describe. They were in a black inflatable with no lights on a dark night. No damage was done because I was going about 5 knots. They could not look everywhere at once. A little farther out and I would have been doing 35 knots and they would be dead.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Coquina said:


> ...A little farther out and I would have been doing 35 knots and they would be dead.


Doing 35 knots at nighttime is presumptive negligence, IMO. No excuse for it, no matter how much artificial light you or others have. What if you hit a log at that speed?


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Logs are my problem. If you have no lights, that can end up being YOUR problem.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

funny thing--one night i was dinghying home from a job i had in san diego bay , and i ran over a deadhead in my way...didnt know what it was until the engine flipped up then down,.... hhmmm....dark as inside a cow and ...ok....no damage, just ran over it...good thing the engines are designed to do just that---and the dink didnt seem to mind one bit--was just a weird speed bump in the dark---0100, actually.....

oh yeah--in sd bay, if you wish to go without dink lights, 0100 is perfect, as nazis of water have coffee from 2200-0300 or so every night..lol ...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

OMG, I returned in the dead of night again and could actually see my boat from shore. no one requires a spotnlight, nor ru ning lights on the target vessel to see at night. When they blast thier spot light, they ruin theirs and others night vision for nothing. 

That yahoo the other night started well on the other side of the harbor. It clearly wouldn't have mattered if we had running lights on. They were on the hunt for every moored boat along the way and every dinghy, running lights or not. The moored balls aren't lit either, by the way. 

Lest anyone failed to notice, I said I do have lights for the dink, which is an 11 ft RIB with 18 hp motor. Bigger than some, but not among the larger units with built in lights. I've never measured, but I suspect it is capable of doing more than 7 knots. At night, we never are close. I would use lights in low viz conditions. My beef is where running lights are doing more harm than good and with yahoos sweeping a spot light around.

Based on the actual comings and goings at the transient dinghy dock last evening, it seems 90% of dinks aren't using lights and I've not heard of anyone ever being cited. I suppose someone may have had them squirreled away somewhere that I couldn't see them, but it not buying that was many that intended to use them. I have them squirreled away, but most dinks don't have anywhere to hide anything. A bag under the seat for security, now that's funny. I saw many underway and it was the fractional minority using running lights. Seems they couldn't find their own bag, if they had one. Thankfully, no one with a spot light last night. Again, clear skies and you could see boats from a few hundred yards away.

I will bet I'm ahead of most by having PFDs for everyone, an anchor, paddle and distress signals. When not in cell range, I bring a handheld too. But, the lights on a clear bright night are dumb.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

My running lights do NOT shine any light in your eyes nor illuminate the inside of the boat and only cost $15 

Something even cheaper we used to do was use a $4 solar garden light. They have a spike fitting on the bottom you can stick in a piece of PVC pipe and hold or bungee on to the boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Glow sticks and dull garden lights make more sense.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Naturally, my whole point is contradictory to the regs. I'm not mistaken about that.

However, on the ColRegs, I find two things interesting.

First, it says an all-around white light. I see nothing about its illumination and its the degree of illumination that I have a beef with. So, a dull white light that could hardly be seen would seemingly comply. Regulations are never written with complete foresight into what is safe and what is not.

More interesting is the requirement to _exhibit sidelights, if practicable_. For those that have installed mounts and have them in a bag under your seat, I suppose they have become practicable and you become obligated to use them and insure the batteries are never dead. I prefer to be able to use my discretion.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> OMG, I returned in the dead of night again and could actually see my boat from shore. no one requires a spotnlight, nor ru ning lights on the target vessel to see at night. When they blast thier spot light, they ruin theirs and others night vision for nothing.
> 
> That yahoo the other night started well on the other side of the harbor. It clearly wouldn't have mattered if we had running lights on. They were on the hunt for every moored boat along the way and every dinghy, running lights or not. The moored balls aren't lit either, by the way.
> 
> ...


Still trying to stubbronly prove your right.

What is dumb here is your continued ridiculing of those who follow the procedures of safety.

You whine when I am sarcastic to you, but have no problem posting something dripping with it. I have never ever heard you admit you are wrong about anything, but we have gotten used to that

Fact- You are clearly breaking the law here. 
Fact- You are clearly arrogant about it and continue to try and justify it
Fact- You beleive you know better than the law and most others and beleive
you are superior to orthers in judgement and knowledge
Fact- *A newbie or one uninformed should not follow your example or take 
your advice in this as it CLEARLY becomes a safety issue for others
as well as you[/B
Fact- I doubt you are ahead of most having a PFS for everyone, an anchor
a paddle, distress signals and ahandheld. We carry that and even wear 
our PFDs ( required on our dinghy). For you to make that statement shows
your feelings of superiority of others
Fact- You stated you have running lights on the boat, why not even just
light up the red and green, That wont affect your night vision. 
Arrogance that why.

You started the thread whining about someone lighting you up on a parallel course when you were running dark. Almost everyone who has posted here can understand why that happened. Arrogant superior you is still clueless as to why as eveidenced by your reaction and running dark again.

Just follow the law and the rules. Make it safe for the rest of us. I dont want to run into you in the dark unlit when you dont have to be that way and it is illegal to be that way.

Your MO is to follow with a personal attack on me, when I disagree with you. Will we be disappointed?*


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Fact. Chef, you just went on my ignore list. Only the second ever. Feel free to do the same.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Fact. Chef, you just went on my ignore list. Only the second ever. Feel free to do the same.


Finally..I wont have to endure your arrogant replies. I will continue to not put you on my ignore list as occasionally you come up with some good thoughts and ideas which are appropriate for me to ponder or use.

Run dark....Run deep....just run away


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I agree with chef2sail/Dave here. Minniwaska, seems you're so caught up in your desire to prove you were right and the dude shining the light all over the place was wrong you are doing a fine job of making yourself sound like a complete moron IMO. 

I am done debating the stupidity of this whole argument with you, it is just so freaking frustrating when a poster as active as you post something so ridiculous (IMO).


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## jimkyle99 (Mar 20, 2013)

I know this is going to make me sound like a ***** but for those of you arguing about the rules - buy a copy of the Navigation Rules (West Marine $10) and read Part C.
For those of you arguing about whether you should follow the rules or not - That's why god made lawyers and insurance companies.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimkyle99 said:


> I know this is going to make me sound like a ***** but for those of you arguing about the rules - buy a copy of the Navigation Rules (West Marine $10) and read Part C.
> For those of you arguing about whether you should follow the rules or not - That's why god made lawyers and insurance companies.


Jimkyle99

I will repost the link which I provided I think back on page 3 of this thread which included the pamphlet you bought at West Marine. These are the
complete rules

Navigation Rules Online

I am assuming you are referring to Part c section 20



> The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.


If installed* PROPERTLY* navigation lights should not impair visability, Certainlky there is no argument for the red/ green one at all. It is the *REPSONSIBILITY* of the boater to install properly and it is easily possible to do. It just takes the willingness to comply and be safe for others.

In addition I will refer you to section 23Dii again



> [(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights.]


Hopefully what you bought at West Marine has the complete set of rules.

In this case the OP refuses to comply with the obvious rules making it unsafe for his fellow boaters. Because of that he was "lit up" by a spotlight of an approaching dinghy to find t where he was and avoid a collision. Had the OP had the sense to have navigation lights lit, the dinghy which lit him up wouldn't have shined his light in his eyes, as he 1- knew where he was and the direction he was traveling and 2- knew that he would have blinded him


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Maybe you shouldn't be going 35 at night in an area where there are dinghys. I'm sure if you hit and kill someone even if they are not using lights you are going to have a big problem.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Verbal fisticuffs over...dinghy lights??!!


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Doubt it. Kind of like running around on I-95 in a dark outfit with a black skimask at night, no one would be surprised if you get run over. If you just HAVE to have a small black boat at night with no lights, at least stay in the 6 MPH zone 



northoceanbeach said:


> Maybe you shouldn't be going 35 at night in an area where there are dinghys. I'm sure if you hit and kill someone even if they are not using lights you are going to have a big problem.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It's exactly like being on I95. Good analogy. I stand corrected. 

I'm going sailing today but I can't get out of the bay I'm in. I guess it's rush hour. Bumper to bumper out there or fender to fender. 

If you are going fast you need to be able to see whether it has a light on it or not. A callous group on here sometimes. Some very entitled people. Care more about who's right and wrong and not about hitting or killing someone. No room for error with alot of you.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

THE WAY I SEE IT. A DINGY IS A BOAT. if you are going to use it at night buy the running and stern light required by most small boats and use them. you are the one in the dingy that the other bigger boat will be running over because you chose to use some lighting that the idiot in the big boat is not use to seeing. don't use a flash light and shine it in his eyes and expect him to see that it is coming from you in your dingy.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

except for two years where I lived in Pa, I have been at the shore all my life and around boats for most of that time. With how I see most boaters operate, they would be lucky I do not have a dink lit up like Close encounters of the 3rd kind. I simply do not trust anybody out on the water


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

You know where boats can legally run on plane and where they can't. You know you are legally requied to have lights after sunset. So......you tell me if it is a good idea to be in an area with a lot of boats coming and going on plane after dark in a black boat with no lights?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

T37Chef said:


> I agree with chef2sail/Dave here. Minniwaska, seems you're so caught up in your desire to prove you were right and the dude shining the light all over the place was wrong you are doing a fine job of making yourself sound like a complete moron IMO.
> 
> I am done debating the stupidity of this whole argument with you, it is just so freaking frustrating when a poster as active as you post something so ridiculous (IMO).


Needless to say, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I don't recall calling anyone here names.

Just to be abundantly clear, the boater that set me off on this was shining up every single thing in the harbor: moored boats, mooring balls, nav aids, etc.

It would have made no difference if I had running lights, everything was being painted, therefore, ruining everyone's night vision. That was the point of this thread. If you find it ridiculous and me a moron, so be it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As a slight thread drift, I also checked the transient dock again for evidence of PFDs. I didn't do an exact count this time, but there are several dozen dinghies. Giving credit for any bag or compartment that might be capable of carrying a PFD as having one inside, I would say about half do.

This I find substantially more important than using running lights on a clear night in a lit harbor.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

*PFD in dingy*

We don't store our mustang pfd in a bag in the dinghy, we wear them while aboard. A dinghy flipping or swamping would happen to quickly.

We always have a traveling bag we take with ashore and they are small and lightweight enough to carry with us. Not leaving PFD costing a couple hundred apiece for someone to take when we aren't present.

Using the argument you don't see the pfds when walking the dock so people don't have them or use them is not a good observation to draw the conclusions you reached imho.

It's my observation that a great percentage of people wear their pfds when operating their dinghy. Certainly at night in a dark harbor with cold water in Edgartown wearing a pfd in a dinghy not just having it stored aboard would seem the prudent safe thing to do.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> Capta, the lights regulations are International - not US. And, those regulations have been around for more than a century. Guess you just have been very fortunate in that someone has not run over your dink in the middle of the night, or someone in another country just don't care if you get run over and die.
> Good Luck,
> Gary


As I said originally, I would love to have a proper set of running lights for a tiller operated inflatable.
Of course the rules are international, I'm not an idiot, but if those legal lights destroy MY visibility then they are of no use to ME!
I would much rather run dark with excellent visibility than be lit legally and be running blind.
So the intelligent option is to run red/green bow and a white stern as a sailboat does, giving the operator good visibility and other boats a pretty good idea of where you are and where you are heading, legal or not. 
What is wrong with that? I hope YOUR choice is not to run blind, legally.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

The lights I linked to a bit earlier do as you say, they do not shine IN the boat. I have the white one velcroed on the back side of the engine. I've got a construction project going with PVC piple and waterproof LED strips, but for now the $15 lights do the job.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I saw a very smart man once in a dinghy who first appeared to be a total idiot. Imagine my surprise to see this guy with his normal green/red bow light that did not disturb his night vision and instead of the all-round white on a pole where he could be impaired by the light; he was wearing a bicycle helmet with his white battery light fixed on a short staff atop his head. He was the tallest thing in his dinghy and where ever he looked the light was not in his view. He also had placed a black painted CD disk on the staff just under the light that blocked the light from shining down around him. When I first saw him getting in his dinghy, I thought he was "in costume", but the result as he motored away was brilliant!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

capta said:


> As I said originally, I would love to have a proper set of running lights for a tiller operated inflatable.
> Of course the rules are international, I'm not an idiot, but if those legal lights destroy MY visibility then they are of no use to ME!
> I would much rather run dark with excellent visibility than be lit legally and be running blind.
> So the intelligent option is to run red/green bow and a white stern as a sailboat does, giving the operator good visibility and other boats a pretty good idea of where you are and where you are heading, legal or not.
> What is wrong with that? I hope YOUR choice is not to run blind, legally.


Perfect choice....exactly what we do. R?G on the bow on a suctiuon cup/ Velcro and an elevated white light on a pole attached to the transom board .We put a plate ( metal placed right below the white light on the stern ( on an elevated clamped on 4 ft pole) so there is no danger of being night blinded.

We are easily seen without blinding ourselves or anyone else


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

We used an AquaSignal all-around light on our 5 HP, 10 foot dink until it was stolen. The stick was only two feet high and the light not strong enough to really impact night vision. We always use a light as the Oakland Estuary is busy even at night and we hate to get run over while returning from the club. We always wear life vests because we often cross pretty open waters, do the occasional surf landing and also dink in the Delta where the San Joaquin Sheriff’s Department has a zero tolerance for boaters in general. We cable lock the PFDs to the dink with a cable through the D-rings or just take them with us in a boat bag or knapsack.

My two pet peeves are kayakers in the Estuary that think their little glow sticks tied to thier bow or stern are actually visible from all angles and the fact that they tend to loiter at marina entrances (I’ve come real close to cutting one in half). Besides, the standard is an all-around WHITE light, not glo worm green. The second one is people who turn on their mast head strobe so they can locate their boat in larger anchorages. Get a couple of them doing it and it is like being in a disco for the rest of us who are actually trying to get some sleep.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Bilge.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Coquina said:


> I hit someone doing EXACTLY as you describe. They were in a black inflatable with no lights on a dark night. No damage was done because I was going about 5 knots. They could not look everywhere at once. A little farther out and I would have been doing 35 knots and they would be dead.


Mmmmm . . .

So there's a difference in being unlit and being camouflaged. If you have a black dink and are wearing black clothes and a black balaclava and all of that on a dark night then it's time to pay real attention. I bet they had a Mercury outboard as well.

How many other boats were coming at them when you hit them? "They" implies there was more one person on the black dink. At 5 knots you wouldn't really suddenly happen on them, a casual scan would have picked up another boat approaching. Sounds like they were smoking something other than cigarettes.

Sorry, not picking, just amused.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Verbal fisticuffs over...dinghy lights??!!


As dear old Marty (blt2ski) would say "who'd a thunk it ?" .


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

That's actually pretty funny when you put it like that. 

This picture is how I feel about dinghy lights.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Buy a pie plates, mount it below the white light. That will cut the glare down into the boat and leave it showing all around. Might cost you two bucks.

Of course in MA waters, you may have state rules as well as COLREGS to conform to. And a lot of inflateables can break 7 knots, so there's that question as well. Either way, the big question is whether you are concerned with either safety or the cost of citations, and if you are, then the choices are fairly simple.

As to the guy with the searchlight, COLREGS section 129.a.3 is very clear on that. After the first pass of the searchlight, you're allowed to SHOOT IT OUT in the interest of preserving your might vision, which is essential to national security. A varmint rifle is good for that. Remember, section 129.a.4 also specifies that you're only allowed three shots, so make sure to practice.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> ...As to the guy with the searchlight, COLREGS section 129.a.3 is very clear on that. After the first pass of the searchlight, you're allowed to SHOOT IT OUT in the interest of preserving your might vision, which is essential to national security. A varmint rifle is good for that. Remember, section 129.a.4 also specifies that you're only allowed three shots, so make sure to practice.


Why not just use a shotgun? That'll guarantee you take that sucker out.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A shotgun means...You're an urban liberal Democrat who's ever actually met a firearm in real life, have you? There's a reason snipers don't use shotguns, and it ain't the cost of the shell.

Besides, one round for a varmint rifle is way way cheaper than one shotgun shell. "Bullets" are _expensive_. Always have been. That's why the Chinese firing squads always sent a bill to the family of the "executee".


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I'll let you guys continue debating best practices. But it does seem that the USCG's minimum requirement for dinghies at less than 7 knots is just a 360° white light, especially for an inflatable upon which mounting the red/green lights could be deemed un-"practicable." Many of you are complaining of the 360° lights interfering with night vision, and you have proposed using plates to reduce the glare inside the boat.

As I mentioned awhile back, one highly portable, inexpensive light that would seem to meet the bare minimum requirements is this one, which Sunsail provided for their BVI dinghies:

​
As I recall from when I used that light, its lens focuses a very intense ring of light on a flat plane, resulting in minimal (but some) bleed into the boat. This strong directionality also focuses the intensity in a very narrow band, so that its somewhat dim light will still be viewed from a significant distance even though it does not consume a lot of battery power. When we used this light in BVI, night vision was not an issue because there was always so much stray light around from land, so I did not really get a good test of the light's bleed.

I have two emergency strobes mounted inside our inflatable PFDs right now, and I've been wanting to get a third emergency light for our "guest" inflatable PFD. The above light is just $10-11 at Defender and Amazon and is very skinny and easy to store, so I think I'm going to pick it up for the PFD. If I ever unexpectedly have to use the dinghy at night, I'll have this handy to satisfy the minimum requirement.

If I ever plan ahead of time to use the dinghy at night, I would purchase a red/green light and figure out how to velcro it onto the bow. But I'm not going to spend the money for that until I have a specific plan to use it, since I'm mostly just a daysailor.












hellosailor said:


> ...You're an urban liberal Democrat...


Thank you for the compliment.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> As a slight thread drift, I also checked the transient dock again for evidence of PFDs. I didn't do an exact count this time, but there are several dozen dinghies. Giving credit for any bag or compartment that might be capable of carrying a PFD as having one inside, I would say about half do.
> 
> This I find substantially more important than using running lights on a clear night in a lit harbor.


this may be do to the fact that many take their 
pfd with them because the inflatable ones tend to grow legs if left in a dingy


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

overbored said:


> this may be do to the fact that many take their
> pfd with them because the inflatable ones tend to grow legs if left in a dingy


I hope you're right. Although, I've yet to see anyone walking in or out with any, nor a large enough bag. Most people have nothing with them but their flip flops.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Wrap up......... (I'm killing time until we get favorable current this afternoon)

I scanned the thread to tally where all are on this. Not perfect, but I included those that supported the idea of no blinding lights and those that liked the OP as being favorable. I counted those that blistered the sacrilege, called me names, or simply quoted the regulation, with no stated opinion on the point of the OP, as unfavorable. 

I tried not to count any poster twice.

Favorable 15
Unfavorable 13

Pretty good conversation as I see it.

There were also 2 that were so neutral I couldn't tell and 3 thread drifts. The undecided, as it were, could very well make it a tie.

Survey and thread is now complete.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

why dont you guys just go out and shoot the offenders.....like her einmexico--one i shard pressed to find any gringos using running lights on dinks. 
many will use bright ftw lights, and those i want to shoot... they play light up every boat in darkness and cannot seem to find their own boat for some reason. 
seems pangeros dont need lights to see others well in darkness.. why not shoot them also.....
get real, folks. 
dont let yourselves get run over by bigger stuff than you. at least take a flashlight to show you are there when being almost run over by someone larger than yourselfish selves.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Part of the issue here is the commercial products for lighting dinghies tend to be not very good and not very durable at best. I'll post my LED contructions when I get a chance.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Coquina said:


> Part of the issue here is the commercial products for lighting dinghies tend to be not very good and not very durable at best. I'll post my LED contructions when I get a chance.


I don't know, I've enjoyed superb service from these portable lights from Aqua Signal over the years, they've never missed a beat...

by comparison, the ones I've see from Attwood and Innovative Lighting seem a bit less robust, or waterproof...

Like anything else going in a tender, always helps to keep them cleaned and protected from the elements as much as possible, remove the batteries when stowed long term, etc...


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> I don't know, I've enjoyed superb service from these portable lights from Aqua Signal over the years, they've never missed a beat...
> 
> by comparison, the ones I've see from Attwood and Innovative Lighting seem a bit less robust, or waterproof...
> 
> Like anything else going in a tender, always helps to keep them cleaned and protected from the elements as much as possible, remove the batteries when stowed long term, etc...


We have those. One is at the bottom of the lake at Edgartown. After that, I put a lanyard on them. The suction cup onto the top of the engine only works for X minutes, where X is not a large number.

The other ones we have are all rusty inside where the contacts are. Been meaning to clean them up -- maybe some On&Off will remove the rust -- and apply dialectric grease. We just don't seem to need them that much, and I haven't found the time to tinker with them.

Lesson learned: remove batteries as Jon said. Also apply dialectric grease to help prevent rusting innards.

Does anyone know if hypalon glue will work on velcro loop patches? Our registration (soft) plate came off the port side and the dinghy's a bit ugly there now. (Port side registration is now roped on, fore and aft.) So I need to get some of the (expensive!) glue again anyway.

Regards,
Brad


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## lowtide (Mar 23, 2008)

These are pretty awesome, mine came with a used achilles I bought. Scroll down to NavLights.










They are easy on/off, simple and bright. The all around white comes with a 160 degree shield, to keep light out of the boat.

Everything breaks down to less than 8" long (I don't have the long flagpole, just the short mount) and will fit in a small bag.

I am not affiliated, of course.

'


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

For clarification, I did not call you a moron, I said "making yourself sound like a complete moron". I believe there is a difference, nonetheless you interpreted that I did, my apologies to you Minnewaska.

I understand your frustration, but don't believe one should run dark in the circumstance you described.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Wrap up......... (I'm killing time until we get favorable current this afternoon)
> 
> I scanned the thread to tally where all are on this. Not perfect, but I included those that supported the idea of no blinding lights and those that liked the OP as being favorable. I counted those that blistered the sacrilege, called me names, or simply quoted the regulation, with no stated opinion on the point of the OP, as unfavorable.
> 
> ...


creative math.

The fact is I count at least 19 of the posters agreed with following the laws and the regulations and either have or employ some type of lighting on their dinghy s. Many of the products are imperfect as we have discussed, and their attachment as well as their unwanted illumination without modifications are necessary. Thanks to all who opted their modifications of their set ups to remain compliant.

As Take5 asked for, the regulations are stated that you must have some type do lighting, in the dark, at the very minimal a white 360. That's a fact. The regulation has been posted twice for everyone to puruse. If it shines it your eyes, modify it as others have posted how to do.

I really don't want to continue posting on this topic, but will as my fear is that someone new to boating will come along and read this thread and feel is ok to run their dinghy dark in a harbor without proper illuminative navigation lights to be seen and that it is a common approved practice to do that. it is against the safe boating tegulations we all should abide by. The unfortunate disagreement comes because the OP arrogantly continues to defend his illegal practice.

To run dark in a dark harbor is irresponsible to others, and illegal as well. To pick and choose which regulations to follow on personal " feelings or beliefs" and endanger others is callous disregard for authority and other boaters.

A boat whether a dinghy or a ship at night should not be run dark.....that's common sense. Even one anchored has a light on.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Bene505 said:


> Does anyone know if hypalon glue will work on velcro loop patches? Our registration (soft) plate came off the port side and the dinghy's a bit ugly there now. (Port side registration is now roped on, fore and aft.) So I need to get some of the (expensive!) glue again anyway.
> 
> Regards,
> Brad


I wouldn't bother with velcro, it doesn't do very well when subject to UV over time...

As mentioned earlier, I mount my bow light using the suction cup mount, but securing it with a three-way 'bridle' of sorts from solid elastomer cord... One 'leg' attaches to the lifting handle forward, the other 2 run aft and to each side to points on the bow storage bag... it's a very secure setup, and has the additional advantage of working even when the dinghy chaps are in place... Sorry I don't have a pic handy, but surely you must have some attachment points somewhere up forward to run shock cord to?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

T37Chef said:


> For clarification, I did not call you a moron, I said "making yourself sound like a complete moron". I believe there is a difference, nonetheless you interpreted that I did, my apologies to you Minnewaska.
> 
> I understand your frustration, but don't believe one should run dark in the circumstance you described.


Cheers mate. We can't all agree on everything. I consider it behind us and we'll move on. Doubt that will be the case for some others.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

While we are sharing... I secretly sit in my dinghy at the dock at night, with the lights off, making various engine noises.

Regards,
Brad


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Don't laugh...

I sometimes wear a headlamp (360 degree white light) on top of my head using the strap as a chin strap. Yes, I rearrange the strap so I'm wearing it as a regular headlamp as I approach the dock so no one sees me .

Of course I concur that the ColRegs under 7 meters, under 7 knots, need only an all around white light or, if practical also side lights.

What would make sense is to permit one to use a 67.5 degree stern light and side lights on a small vessel so that one would maintain night vision...but that would make sense and we cannot expect the government to start making sense.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> I wouldn't bother with velcro, it doesn't do very well when subject to UV...


Then I could make an oversized hook-side cover to protect the part glued to the dinghy. At least it will stay in place.

Regards,
Brad


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

I had a sailboat stern light on my runabout I coudl switch on in place of the 360 degree light. It was not "legal", but usually the last mile home was 6 knots weaving around a ton of unlit moored boats. I figured the increased viz was worth the "risk" of being mistaken for a sailboat. I never ran on plane that way.



RobGallagher said:


> Don't laugh...
> 
> I sometimes wear a headlamp (360 degree white light) on top of my head using the strap as a chin strap. Yes, I rearrange the strap so I'm wearing it as a regular headlamp as I approach the dock so no one sees me .
> 
> ...


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I realize that while we all have differences of opinion about what is a safety priority, we're all on sailnet because we care to take the time to discuss how to improve. I think dinghy lights are a low priority, but I'm in a different location so alot of you seem to be in Maryland. Maybe it's more crowded and rowdy there and they are more important. 

I've got oars anyways. I don't have to legally have a light.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

northoceanbeach said:


> I realize that while we all have differences of opinion about what is a safety priority, we're all on sailnet because we care to take the time to discuss how to improve. I think dinghy lights are a low priority, but I'm in a different location so alot of you seem to be in Maryland. Maybe it's more crowded and rowdy there and they are more important.
> 
> I've got oars anyways. I don't have to legally have a light.


At least one oar anyway


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Lol? One oar?


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## Neosec (Jun 25, 2013)

TakeFive said:


> Doing 35 knots at nighttime is presumptive negligence, IMO. No excuse for it, no matter how much artificial light you or others have. What if you hit a log at that speed?


Does anyone make solar powered Red/Green and white light kits I can put on logs as I see them... Just to be safe.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I thought you needed a flashlight when using a row boat at night.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbb (engine noises)

Regards,
Brad


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Coupla strings of LED rope lights, and make people wonder how the tiny cruise liner got in so close?


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Bene505 said:


> I thought you needed a flashlight when using a row boat at night.
> 
> bbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbb (engine noises)
> 
> ...


You do.

Rule 25(d)(ii)


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> I realize that while we all have differences of opinion about what is a safety priority, we're all on sailnet because we care to take the time to discuss how to improve. I think dinghy lights are a low priority, but I'm in a different location so alot of you seem to be in Maryland. Maybe it's more crowded and rowdy there and they are more important.
> 
> I've got oars anyways. I don't have to legally have a light.


Yes you do. A flashlight will suffice.

Rule 25(d)(ii)

A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The less maneuverable rowing dinghy, which would be more difficult to move out of the way, requires less lighting.

Regulations are not synonymous with safety.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> The less maneuverable rowing dinghy, which would be more difficult to move out of the way, requires less lighting.
> 
> Regulations are not synonymous with safety.


It's dangerous to advocate not following regulations which all others do. Regulations standardize how we operate our boats, so we can predict others reactions and provide conformity so we are all on the same page. Imagine if some decided to install green lights on the starboard and red on the port, some decided to run dark and others decided to run according to the regulations.

It really is a safety issue. Someone who refuses to follow regulations makes it unsafe for the rest of us. If you don't agree with the regulation lobby to change it.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Good old fashioned common sense surely comes into it, albeit not in a legal sense. 

Personally I think its simply silly to motor at speed, no matter what size of craft, without lights. Equally so to row across a channel unlit. Nevertheless rowing or motoring slowly from shore through a field of anchored or moored boats doesn't seem to pose a major risk presuming you have a light handy in case of the unexpected.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> ...Imagine if some decided to install green lights on the starboard and red on the port...and others decided to run according to the regulations...


Dave - You better go check your lights!!! All the rest of us ACTUALLY DO have green on starboard and red on port. :hammer


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

By the way, there is a good reason why red is on port, and it's how I remember which side is which.

Two boats under power approach each other at a 90 degree angle. If you're on one of these boats and you see the one to your starboard, he is the stand-on vessel and you give way. At night, you would see this vessel's red light (red means stop), and you would know it's approaching you by the relative position of the red and white lights. In order for you to see his red light, it has to be on his port side.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> Dave - You better go check your lights!!! All the rest of us ACTUALLY DO have green on starboard and red on port. :hammer


Rick,,,,,that's why I used the word some and not all. Of course I know where my lights are, I follow the regulations. Suppose only some did.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Tonight while coming into harbor, I saw a little green light very low in the water, straight ahead. Red turned to green and I saw the white all around light. A dink with 4 adults was making it's way from one marina to another.

Was a pleasure to see and we had (at our slow speed) plenty of time to alter course a bit to port. They were hugging the docks a bit, no sense trying to go to starboard. They were doing it right. The red/green light was held by a passenger facing forward on the bench seat.

No life jackets being worn, but I'd bet they had them aboard.

Regards,
Brad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Pretty foggy night here last night. Lights would have been a good idea.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Bumping an oldy, but goody. If this is the first post you read, you should go read the OP for context.

So, I return to the scene of the crime. Edgartown harbor again. This time, I'm returning to the boat at night, but rather than being crystal clear, it's pretty foggy. We're also not navigating back through the harbor, but out to the Chappaquiddick anchorage. 

So I say, what the heck, dig out the white light. As I leave the dinghy dock, several others are coming and going. I note that way less than half have dinghy lights. 

As I make my way past the Chappaquiddick ferry, it gets much darker. The inner harbor (in the opposite direction) is lined with lit boats and houses and impossible for anyone with above a 50 IQ to get lost. But out here, it's hard to see shore. Although, you can see the lights from all the mega yachts in the distance at anchor (none fit in the harbor). Amazing sight really, it was like a lit city!

Sure enough, I swear the same yo yo is patrolling the harbor with their search light as last year. You can see the huge sword of a beam slicing randomly through the fog in the distance. Whipping back and forth and even up in the air. Maybe they thought a meteor was coming? Then, sure enough, as they got closer, they lit us up like an escaped prisoner again.

I'm already partially impaired by the bloody white light on my dink, which obviously made no difference, now they see to it that I can't see a freaking thing. Next time, I charge the offender with a combat knife and take to their inflatable.


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## Delta-T (Oct 8, 2013)

You do know you are in the middle of and area the President is going to be vacationing in a few days? Clinton is also supposed to be on the island at the same time too. This could account for all the mega yachts and heightened security.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> ...Sure enough, I swear the same yo yo is patrolling the harbor with their search light as last year. You can see the huge sword of a beam slicing randomly through the fog in the distance. Whipping back and forth and even up in the air. Maybe they thought a meteor was coming? Then, sure enough, as they got closer, they lit us up like an escaped prisoner again.
> 
> I'm already partially impaired by the bloody white light on my dink, which obviously made no difference, now they see to it that I can't see a freaking thing. Next time, I charge the offender with a combat knife and take to their inflatable.


If you have a handheld VHF, maybe you could try hailing him on the radio and let him know that he's causing night blindness. My guess is that he has no clue what a problem he is causing.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Delta-T said:


> You do know you are in the middle of and area the President is going to be vacationing in a few days? Clinton is also supposed to be on the island at the same time too. This could account for all the mega yachts and heightened security.


I believe Obama arrives this weekend, although, the family may be here already. Many of the Mega yachts had a racing sailboat rafted to their side. There must be a race going on.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> If you have a handheld VHF, maybe you could try hailing him on the radio and let him know that he's causing night blindness. My guess is that he has no clue what a problem he is causing.


Sure do. Not a bad idea, but I would eat my hat if they were monitoring or could hear the hail over the dink motor.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Was in Egotown for a shot time yesterday, looks like the NYYC was in. Not very cool getting blinded like that.


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## jfdubu (Jul 18, 2002)

Interesting and timely topic. For the first time my dingy is properly registered. I did this because I plan on using it a lot more for back an forth from anchor to shore on BI and Newport. I just bought bow lights. The last thing I want is to give "officials" a reason to stop me after a night of "fun" on the island.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

tdw said:


> > Originally Posted by DRFerron
> > Verbal fisticuffs over...dinghy lights??!!
> 
> 
> As dear old Marty (blt2ski) would say "who'd a thunk it ?" .


Just be glad that they're not weighing in on sailing braless...

I think that we need another SolarStik thread.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I think this is relevant to this discussion. "Vessels under oars" would include the dinghy.

The USCG is changing the inland rules to align with COLREGS. From the Final Rule dated 2 July 2014 (opens the PDF). I added the italics.

4. Lighting and Bells
We received two comments regarding
our _proposed change to allow the
optional display of an all-round white
light by sailing vessels less than 7
meters in length and vessels under oars
in § 83.25(d)(i) and (ii). _ One commenter
agreed and noted that many of these
vessels lack an installed electrical
system and that the option to display an
all-round white light would provide an
additional level of flexibility to boaters.

We agree that boating and navigational
safety would only improve with this
optional lighting arrangement. The other
commenter, however, thought this
proposed change was contradictory,
confusing, and potentially dangerous.
He contended that a constant white light
with accompanying sidelights is
universally recognized as the navigation
lights of a power-driven vessel, and that
§ 83.23(d) specifically authorizes this
combination for power-driven vessels of
less than 12 meters in length. As an
alternative, he recommended that we
create a new signal utilizing alternately
flashing red and green lights in keeping
with the optional red over green
masthead lights authorized for sailing
vessels in § 83.25(c) or prescribe that the
white light displayed by these small
sailing vessels or vessels under oars be
flashing at a frequency of 120 flashes or
more per minute (in accordance with
the definition of a flashing light in
§ 83.21(f)). The Coast Guard agrees that
a white light with sidelights is
universally recognized as the navigation
light of a power-driven vessel, but
asserts that this rule would not allow
these small sailing vessels or vessels
under oars to be construed as power-
driven vessels because it provides that
a single white light would be displayed,
not red and green sidelights.

Secondly, we disagree with this
comment because, as the Navigation
Safety Advisory Council (NAVSAC) and
the National Boating Safety Advisory
Council (NBSAC) recommend, the
proposed change provides these smaller
vessels flexibility to enhance safety and
visibility. We also disagree with the
commenter's assertion that the proposed
lighting option is unsafe; providing
these vessels with the ability to be better
seen would only enhance navigational
safety. The optional fixed white light we
propose is presented in the COLREGS
for vessels of less than 7 meters in
length whose maximum speed is less
than 7 knots. The Coast Guard believes
that application of the all-round white
light in the international rules is
complementary to this application
proposed by NAVSAC for the Inland
Navigational Rules. We believe that the
optional all-round white light proposed
in the NPRM as recommended by
NAVSAC and NBSAC provides
increased safety over the existing rule
which specified that a vessel meeting
the criteria was not required to be
lighted but may show a fixed white light
(white hand torch) which ''shall be
exhibited in sufficient time to prevent
collision'' (see 33 CFR 83.25(d)(i)).

(and it continues)


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

It annoys the crap out of me that dingy manufactures haven't come into the 21st century and found a way to use LED bow lights permanently mounted on their smaller boats. 

I have a Achilles, love it, but for $3000 I should get a $20 bow light run by two AA batteries don't ya think??? WTH 

I resort to duct tape for the bow light...classy right


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Geez

We are known to use the old 'go-cup' technique. A translucent (not clear) drink cup over a flashlight









But then we got fancy and got a LUCI which is a solar powered folding light:









If you drop the LUCI it floats!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I have tried a number of things over the 12 years I have been a liveaboard and a head torch works for me.

Cheap as chips.

I don't get blinded.

I can easily light up whatever I want. 

My fancy LED one died so I am back on my reserve but one that switches from one LED to five then twelve is good.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

How about one of these?










With a clear/white lens, of course...


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

if CruisingDad had been wearing that he might not have given himself a concussions too! Two for one!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

...and the siren _could _count as "some other means of making an efficient [sound] signal." (rule 33)


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

+1 on a l.e.d. hiking type headlamp. They are useful for all sorts of things on a boat. One of the major functions of any dink light, perhaps THE major function is making light to let you find your keys and get into the cabin after a night of carousing about town. It also helps you determine if you are on the right boat:laugher


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

JonEisberg said:


> Can't say I'll always use mine, particularly in a remote spot with no other traffic about... But in some areas - like South Florida, in particular - a failure to display proper lights, you're simply making yourself a target of a 'visit' from the water cops, and a guaranteed citation...


... be aware that the FWC is now checking the mandated height above the water/boat for the all-around white light on dinghies. If I remember correctly it must be 48 (?) inches above the dink's stern, definitely not the typical 'stuck to the top of an OB with a suction cup'. There were lots of BS public meetings with the FWC in the keys last winter over draconian and overzealous enforcement. The sum of those meetings was: there is no excuse for not anally following each and every boating law no matter how inane or not widely published. Such is just the typical 'revenue grab'.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Next time you break an oar in the dark or run out of gas and are hanging to a bouy or better yet drifting with the tide and wind for off shore islands or even better hanging to the upturned dink in 7 degree water just be thankful you didn't get suckered for the revenue grab.


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## Oldboyracer (Oct 12, 2013)

I live aboard , but have to go to work at 5 am so I use a suction cup mounted light on a 20 litre bucket at the bow of my inflatable . Also a stern light on a pole . That way I can be seen in the dark while motoring to the boat ramp , should have saved my money and got a bag of rocks to throw at the fishos leaving the ramp at that time , they are to busy playing with chart plotters and fishing gear or cups of coffee to actually look where they are going . At least I can count on one or two days of the week to have an exciting start .


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I have had both the Aqua Signal series 23 navigation lights for my dinghy since 2011 (white and bi-color). 








I kept them aboard the boat on a dry shelf with the batteries removed when not in use. I found the all-around white light most useful as a flashlight on occasion (probably got 2 hours use) and probably used the bi-color light twice for less than 15 minutes TOTAL. At the end of last season (5 years) the white light was getting dim, and the bicolor light didn't work at all, so I replaced the 4 AA batteries the other day. No change in operation...

Flashlights that don't work, and empty staplers, are two of my pet peeves, so I investigated. If possible, I had hope that I could repair. If not, well they weren't working anyway...

I traced the problem down to the switch, which is mounted in the rubber encased body of the light. I had to tear the light apart, but here is what I discovered; it seems that the lights are water resistant, not waterproof. Any moisture that can get into the body of the light will eventually make its way to the switch, and corrode the contacts of the switch. There is a small hollow rivet which provides a path for the moisture to get here, and it will eventually corrode the contacts. I believe that they have a 2 star rating at Jamestown Distributors.

If any of you depend on these lights, I suggest that you inject Boeshield into the rivet hole under the switch at least annually.

In the meantime, I have two LED lights, and two lenses, one clear, and the other bicolored that are of no use to me.

To replace these, I will probably go with this;


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

eherlihy said:


> To replace these, I will probably go with this;


We tried using those as emergency bow lights last summer on a Maui - Vancouver passage. We lost two of them even after we wire-tied them to to pulpit. The lower case remained; the light was gone.

They might do for a coastal trip, but they are not suitable for offshore, IMHO.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

jackdale said:


> We tried using those as emergency bow lights last summer on a Maui - Vancouver passage. We lost two of them even after we wire-tied them to to pulpit. The lower case remained; the light was gone.
> 
> They might do for a coastal trip, but they are not suitable for offshore, IMHO.


Thanks Jack, but you do realize that this thread is about *dinghy *lights? 
If you're taking your dink from Maui to Vancouver, you're a better (crazier) sailor than me...irateraft:


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