# San Juan 24 progress



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Hey guys, thought I would make a thread documenting the work going into my '75 San Juan 24.

My plans so far are:
-*clean, clean, clean*
-rip out all old wiring
-install new, clean, updated electronics and wiring
-refinish all brightwork
-reseal leaking chainplates
-rebed portlights
-lots of other stuff!

Here's the day I picked her up


























Interior (lots of work needed here):









notice the half-ass vinyl job:









wiring mess:









more:









nasty bilge:









Thanks for looking, I'll keep updating this as I go.

-Tip


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Some new goodies:


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Excellent....keep us posted.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Took some time and re-sealed my pesky chainplates. This is one of the few beefs I (and many others) have with Bruce Kirby's design. The port side was leaking pretty heavily. I went ahead and re-sealed the starboard chainplate also, as well as the toe rail drains (sorry no pics of that).

Getting rid of the all the old sealant (previous owner had ran a bead of sealant right on top the old stuff):









Gettin' there:









After I removed all remnants of old sealant, I cleaned thoroughly with some Interlux 202 solvent. Then I packed in some 3M 5200 to seal her up.

As I was cleaning, I realized I didn't have any more masking tape with me so its a little sloppier than I would have liked, but I can live with it:



















One more thing... thought I'd include a quick pic of the maiden sail a while ago (little over trimmed)


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Pretty boat.
One good thing about a San Juan 24 is there isn't much wiring to start with so it's not too hard of a job to rewire.
3M 5200 is not a good choice for anything you will ever want to remove and really shouldn't be used on a boat except possibly for hull/keel joints. It's adhesive properties are so strong that the gel coat will be pulled off when trying to remove it. Sikaflex 291 or 3M 4200 are better choices.


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Great thread. It's good to see such progress made on a sailboat.

I've never sail one, but she looks pretty sleek. I bet she goes to windward really well.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey tip, I just bought one of those BlueSea battery switches and am planning to wire two batteries up for overnight power. Have you found a good wiring diagram on SN or anywhere else for that?

Anyone else have one?

PS - Nice work on the chainplates dude!


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

mitiempo - thanks, and you're right. I actually used 4200 (green tube) - Looks like I got a little mixed up when I was writing that. 5200 would have been a bad choice for chainplates :laugher

brad - thanks, and yeah, she is a great heading upwind! ...but downwind is another story 

smackdaddy - I'd check first with the Blue Seas site. Here's a link to the manual to one of the switches:

http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/9001e_web_version.pdf


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Smacky-

Depends on which switch you bought. Some have three posts, others just four.



smackdaddy said:


> Hey tip, I just bought one of those BlueSea battery switches and am planning to wire two batteries up for overnight power. Have you found a good wiring diagram on SN or anywhere else for that?
> 
> Anyone else have one?
> 
> PS - Nice work on the chainplates dude!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

It's the BlueSea 6007 that I bought *HERE*.

It's got 3 posts - and the switch is the Off/1/2/1+2 config. The question I have regards wiring the negative terminals. Do I gang those across the 2 batteries - then go into the buss with single wire? Or what?

This is just a house bank. I have an OB so don't have to worry about a starting battery. I just need extended power for the lights, etc.

This electrical stuff is hard.

(PS - surely there's already a thread for this. I just haven't found it.)


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Just run a cable from one (-) battery post to the other (-) post. Then connect them to your ground buss, if you have one.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cool! Thanks tip!


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

No problem man. I'll be installing mine in a couple days, hopefully.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Well, I got some much needed cleaning done. I was holding off until I made sure the leaks were fixed, and they are! That's a load off my mind...

I also went through the wiring and tore out about 300' of wire. All of it was hacked up. Tons of "fixes" involving twisted wire and electrical tape. About half of the wires were actually serving no purpose at all - except making a big cluster fu**.

My "electronics" compartment *before*:









yuck:









Note the water in the bottom left, leaked from the port side chainplate:









And *after*:

lots of scrubbing with some Simple Green mixed 50/50:


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Wow Tip! Big difference. You're getting me inspired to clean some lazarettes this spring. (They are on my to-do list.) Noting beats before and after shots to show an accomplishment.

So Simple Green is the product to use?

-

Smack -- Why even use a switch, if it's just for your house bank? Batteries last a lot longer if they are only partially discharged. By switching your house load to one battery, you'll have 1 deeply discharged battery instead of 2 partially discharged batteries. Deep discharge=bad thing to do.

If you have two dissimilar batteries that were bought years apart, then I could see the reasoning. Or if one is Gel and the other Lead Acid, then OK. But if you got the batteries at the same time and they are similar, then return the switch or put it on eBay, and use the money elsewhere.

(If you just bought a battery, thinking you need the switch because you have 1 old battery and 1 new battery, return the switch and get a second new battery instead and recycle the old battery.)

Those switches are pretty much for people that have a house bank and an engine bank, IMHO, not your Smacktanic.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Bene - Simple Green is what I like, but there is probably better stuff out there.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Tip-

Love your boat. Very sleek, very clean. After looking at your photos, I just realized that my lazarette is raw, unpainted fiberglass. I'm going to paint it.


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

smack
You do need a switch to turn the bank off - just a simple on/off is fine.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

bubblehead - thanks. Make sure to research the proper prep methods when painting raw fiberglass.


----------



## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> The idea was to use the switch to go from one battery to the other as one draws down. For example, I'll use battery A during the day for the instruments, tunage, and margarita machines, then switch to battery B for cabin lights and anchor light at night. That kind of thing. Of course, that may be where I'm wrong.


That's not how you want to do it. The more power you use out of a battery, the harder it is on it. One at a time, you drain battery A half empty and have battery B full. Both at once and battery A and battery B are a quarter empty for the same usage. Your batteries will last a lot longer with the latter method.

You can try to switch back and forth to keep using both batteries equally. But this requires you keep track of your usage and manually switch. Do you have a good idea of how much power one hour of instruments use vs one hour of cabin lights? You're probably not going to split it very well. If you use both at once, and the two batteries are matched, your usage will automatically be split equally between the batteries.

Another thing is that the faster you draw power out of the battery, the less efficient it is. This matters most for high power things, like a blender. If you make one margarita on A and then another on B, it will drain your batteries more than if you made two margaritas using battery A+B.

You would have been fine with just a simpler on-off switch, which would be wired simpler and with less wire, but the switch you have is fine too. Just leave it set to 1+2. If somehow one battery goes bad, then you can set it to use just the other.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Not to sound like "that guy", but this topic sounds like it could really use it's own thread. There are many different ways to go with wiring up multiple battery banks, it all depends on the application, personal preference, etc, etc. 

I'd be glad to contribute my thoughts on Smackdaddy's quest for answers in a separate thread.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You're right - sorry tip.

I'll start a thread and pull my posts out of this one.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

no prob SD. I find that battery related topics draw a lot of strong, different opinions - so I suspect a new thread will be very useful to all of us.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Now that I got the lazarette all clean, I can finally start getting things moving. I was able to get my Blue Seas battery switch mounted up. It took me forever to decide on where to mount it, but I think I found the best place for it given my choices.

had to rig up the radio temporarily for some workin' tunes:









2" 5/8" hole saw:









depressing:









it fits!









stainless hardware:


















temporarily installed (it is straight, trust me - my camera was in macro mode, so lines seem bent, notice the blue battery label on the top)









backside:









got the battery, correct size box and new strap installed:









Now I'm ready to start wiring. I won't install the switch permanently until after I make my battery cables.


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

When I did mine (blue top group 31) I also added a hard-wired battery charger/maintainer that is 800ma and waterproof/epoxy excapsulated, and screwed right to the bulkhead. Optima is now spec-ing the CTEC units for thier batteries, and I've been testing on on the bench for a few weeks. So far I've found it will charge faster then the one I have as it is 3.3 amps at 14.7 volts but the maintaince seem the same at 13.30 volts. Not sure if it is worth replacing the one that is in the boat just yet.
Keep plugging away at it.
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Yeah I'm planning on getting a ProSport charger and hardwiring it in. My battery guy at work said Optimas will last quite a while, as long as you maintain and condition the charge. If you don't, they're ****ed.

I haven't heard of CTEK so I looked them up. I'm going to have to do some more research. Let me know what you find out, I want to get the best charger available.


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

THe CTEK has an "optima" setting built into the charger that must be selected and actually has an optima symbol on the charge position. When in the optima position, the charger output goes to 14.7 volts and 3.3 amps, and then drops to 13.30 volts and "pulses" 800 ma to maintain the charge. One thing I don't like is that the position must be selected every time power is supplied to the charge and my other charger does is automatic as it only has the 1 setting.
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

What model CTEK charger are you using? Which one would you recommend? I'm really looking into getting one now, they seem to be well engineered.


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

tip said:


> What model CTEK charger are you using? Which one would you recommend? I'm really looking into getting one now, they seem to be well engineered.


CTEK has 2 models that are for the Optimas. I'm testing the 3.3 amp model that retails for ~ $49.00 and they also have an 8.3 amp model that is ~ $110.00. So far I like the 3.3 amp unit as it is quite small in packageing and seems to charge the battey quickly. By design the Optima will absorb lots of current quickly, so the 8.3 amp model might be good unit also, but I never run mine down very far. I was on the boat most of the day today running the AM/FM, VHF, and sounder and when back at the dock, the voltage had fallen from 13.30 volts when I left, to 12.85 volts after several hours. After being plugged in for 30 minutes, my voltage was 13.10 volts, so recovery is good even with only 800 ma on tap. I do use a Link 10 type (the original "E" meter) to monitor my use and voltage. I haven't decided if the difference is enough to change from what I have to the CTEK yet, but it probably is.

On a different note....... There are several SJ-24's in my marina and I took a look at the transom on them, you are kinda screwed on a swim ladder off the stern if you are running an outboard. Looks like your only hope is a portable ladder off the side.
Best of luck
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

3.3 amps is a very small charger. Even a flooded battery will accept 20 amps in bulk mode (between 50% and 80% SOC) assuming an 80 A/H battery. If your battery is at 50% the 3.3 amp charger will take 6 hours to take it to 80%. A 10 amp charger, which is still pretty small, will do this in 2 hours. After 80% all batteries will accept less current.


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Here's the email I got from Optima customer support:



Optima guy said:


> Hello
> 
> We do not "Officially" endorse specific maintainer/chargers yet we will supply information about devices that our customers and staff have used and liked. Here are a couple:
> 
> ...


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> 3.3 amps is a very small charger. Even a flooded battery will accept 20 amps in bulk mode (between 50% and 80% SOC) assuming an 80 A/H battery. If your battery is at 50% the 3.3 amp charger will take 6 hours to take it to 80%. A 10 amp charger, which is still pretty small, will do this in 2 hours. After 80% all batteries will accept less current.


3.3 amps is a small charger, but we are not talking about T105's and a multi-battery house bank. A single battery in a day cruiser with small current demands and a typical small outboard with no charging, other then when the boat is in a slip. I used 12.1 amp hours saturday, which brought my battery voltage down to 12.90 volts from a starting point of 13.30 volts. After restoring shorepower, my "E" meter showed a recovery to 13.10 volts in the ~20 minutes that I spent securing what I had out on the boat. And that was with the 800 ma charger on board.
Best of luck
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## Imperial88 (Aug 2, 2009)

a fellow SJ24! mine is on the hard getting a renovation on the bottom. Check this out... can you say...Barnacle? ahh hahahaha! don't call me names yet... i have owned the boat for 4 months...and yes i knew what i was getting into...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey, look a reef... oh, wait, that's upside down for a reef... I think there's a boat hidden in there someplace.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Looks fast imp!


----------



## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Imperial88 said:


> a fellow SJ24! mine is on the hard getting a renovation on the bottom. Check this out... can you say...Barnacle? ahh hahahaha! don't call me names yet... i have owned the boat for 4 months...and yes i knew what i was getting into...


damn dude. I'm gonna be doing my bottom sometime soon, so I'm gonna have a lot of questions. Are you doing it yourself? Keep us updated!


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

Tip;
I just ordered the CTEK 8 amp charger to play with at my shop, so I will have both to test out in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know what I think. It appears the the 8 amp unit has some functions that are geared more to flooded batteries, but we will see. I'm going to make a mount for the 3.3 amp unit and try it in my boat also to see if there is much difference over what I have now. Other then recovery time, I don't see much difference yet, but the "pulsed" maitinence voltage is supposed to reduce sulfation.

No wind on the boat is still better then a day off the boat.

Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## Imperial88 (Aug 2, 2009)

Well... the process started with a big scrapper, something resembling a garden hoe straightened out. Next it was dual orbital sanders with 60 grit paper...say 25 + papers... gloves, long sleeve, long pant, hat, mask, goggles and i still managed to die a little...haha My buddy and i did it over the course of a couple Wednesdays off.

cut and scrapped out blisters with a Philips head screwdriver let it sit for days until later patching the blister... boat has been sitting for about 3 weeks.. tomorrow i'm planing on rolling the sealer/primer onto it.


----------



## 75R20 (Jun 20, 2008)

Well I swapped chargers out on my boat today. What I see so far is this. The charger that I had was an 800 ma output waterproof unit that is ~2 years old. It does a good job of keeping the battery topped up. The CTEK 3300 when connected and turned to the Optima setting brought the battery up to 14.7 volts in a matter of minutes from the 13.30 volts that it was at before starting the charger. It then kicked off and the battery voltage started to drop as expected. I thing I did notice was that my "E" meter showed the positive charge from the CTEK charger. The "E" meter had not previously showed charging with the 800 ma charger. I'll monitor the voltage over the next few weeks and see what it does. It has showed me that what I had was working well, but the CTEK "might" be slightly better. We'll see.
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------



## colb218 (Jul 7, 2009)

Looks great so far! I am sharing a SJ24 with a buddy and your post has inspired me!

We got it for free March of 2010 and so far have really only tackled the 'must dos' like a new main halyard, outboard overhaul, new tiller. I did throw a working CD Player onboard, but other than that we have been pretty stagnant of late. I think I will use my day off on Friday for some good old fashion scrubbing! 

Subscribed for future progress. Any write up on the electrical system would be great!


----------

