# Electronic Auto Bilge Switches, yay or nay?



## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

What's been your experience with electronic bilge switches? I had bad luck with Witch Switch, and have a Johnson Ultima that works well so far. However I just read about some Ultima failures with the same symptom I experienced with the Witch Switch - sticking on. I recently needed one of the features of the Witch Switch and thought I would give it another try. My supplier told me he stopped carrying Witch Switch because they had issues, and they wouldn't warranty the product for more than a year. This guy would sell his mother for the right price, so they must have had a lot of "issues"! I'm aware of at least one SN member who has a Witch Switch and likes it. I like the concept (as opposed to float switches), however, I'm getting the idea the technology might not be ready for the marine environment. Thoughts?


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## JRA1968 (Apr 10, 2011)

As a marine mechanic for many years I like the (kiss) theory. As one of the most important items on any boat a bilge pump sgould be maintained as every other safety item if not more . Most people dont check there bilge at all let alone keep it clean . I would say 75% of all boats that have sunk have so because debris was lodged in the pump impeller. We have always used the 3rd wire type float pumps so that you can override the float with a manual switch when needed . Cheers and strong winds


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

yup bilge debris will eventually bite you on the a** and at the most unopportune time,i've yet to see a float switch that works everytime-all the time,almost every boat i've seen that the autobilge pump kicks on frequently sooner or later sinks,i don't like nor will i have anymore thru hulls than absolutely necessary and inspect those often,i keep my batteries off completely and no external power supply when i'm away,nothing is fool proof,everytime i approach my boat i'm relieved that its still floating


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Since float switches are relatively inexpensive I mount two on a pump.at different levels. If the first one don't get you, the second one will.Actually there are three in a row as the top one is alarm. Debris in the pump is another issue but SS wire mesh boxes help with that.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanks folks! But now....about those electronic bilge switches!


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

I installed one on my power boat a couple years ago. I constantly found the pump stuck on when I checked on the boat. I switched it back to a float after a few months of that.
Jim


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If you mean the electronic switches that are "no moving parts" and rely on water touching two contacts/rods to turn on the switch?

PS tested a batch of them years ago, and found that eventually oil in the bilge would cause them to fail. They don't jam, but contamination apparently causes them to either false or fail making them no better or worse in the long run.

If you need one bilge pump with one float switch, you need two bilge pumps with two float switches, because everything in the bilge eventually fails. Usually at an inconvenient time.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Yay. DEFINATELY Yay.

Trust me, I'm a recovering wooden boat owner. (hands shaking as he types)

This is the one you want. 








Whale Pumps Electric Field Sensor Switch WHA-BE9001 - Bilge Pumps And Accessories - JMSOnline.net Marine Supply and Boating Store

Also, do yourself a favor. ONLY buy Rule bilge pumps. They, well, "Rule." I went through several pumps in the 6 years I lived on my wooden boat. The two Rule pumps that came with the boat continued to function without a hitch despite the abuse I heaped on them. One of them was running dry for a week while I was out of town as an example.... This switch is the only one that lasted in my bilge as well.

MedSailor


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

We have one on the Womboat , I'm ashamed to admit I forget the brand. I throw a bit of water into the bilge every now and then just to make sure and on one occasion it failed to kick in. Pulled it out and wiped the scum off it. Thats now a routine measure. Its never stuck on. Secondary pump is float. Both have manual overide.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Like Fuzzy, I have two pumps. A small Rule Auto at the lowest point of the bilge, and a larger, float type, about half way up. It has worked well for me. As was also said, any piece of mechanical equipment is only as good as how well you maintain it.


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## lrclough (Dec 17, 2000)

*Two recent failures*

I have had 2 water witch bilge pump switches fail by sticking on during the past 3 months.

If I take up the floor boards and wipe off the contacts, the switch eventually turns off.

When I emailed the manufacturer, they replied:

"I don't know why, but it appears our switch will not work for you. It may
happen, but we do not hear about multiple switch failures in the same
installation. I have no answer. Sorry. What do you want us to do? Another switch will probably do the same thing."


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> Yay. DEFINATELY Yay.
> 
> Trust me, I'm a recovering wooden boat owner. (hands shaking as he types)
> 
> ...


Thanks...hadn't seen that one from Whale. Not to go off topic, but this thread gives a different perspective about Rule pumps. It always amazes me how starkly opinions can differ!
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/79830-rule-mate-2000-bilge-pump-sticking.html


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

lrclough said:


> I have had 2 water witch bilge pump switches fail by sticking on during the past 3 months.
> 
> If I take up the floor boards and wipe off the contacts, the switch eventually turns off.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what both my switches did (the first and it's warranty replacement). What a lame response! What does the multiple failure comment even mean? What to do? How about - Make a product that actually does what you claim it does?? Especially when failure could cost a boat! Funny thing is - Witch Switch claims they have a Coast Guard endorsement. Wonder how much they paid for that.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> If you mean the electronic switches that are "no moving parts" and rely on water touching two contacts/rods to turn on the switch?


Good point. Actually, I would be interested in any automatic bilge switch that is not the conventional float switch. I.e., the ones that rely on air pressure.


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## meuritt (Aug 25, 2008)

I have a Water Witch, won't shut off, will be going back to float switches.


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## PS94063 (Nov 26, 2014)

I've had so much trouble with my Whale Electronic Bilge Switch #BE9003 and have had to replace it 4 times. What am I doing wrong? It's for my shower. I contacted Whale asking if any cleaning products I use on/in my shower might cause the problem and they told me NO! Anyway, I temporarily I have a Rule float switch I'm using but it doesn't remove the hair (ick) etc. that the Whale Electronic one does. All input is most welcome...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Ironically, I found an absolutely fantastic bilge cleaner just this past season. Tuf Enuf Bilge Cleaner. 

However, I swear it destroyed two float switches and possibly the diaphragm in my bilge pump. The later is potentially a coincidence, as the pump is 10 years old, but I'm convinced it got into the hinge of the switch, which would stick on. Both switches were new. The cleaner does an incredibly good job of breaking down gunk, but then I think it made it's way into the hinge. I would clean it out and get the switch to work again, but I never trusted it, so replaced it twice. 

I will continue to use this bilge cleaner, but it needs to be rinsed out well. As it has a bacteria to break down gunk, I would leave it for the weekend. Smells like oranges by the way and I would know it has finished its job by the time I could no longer smell orange.

I finally went with the Johnson Pumps version of the solid state electronic switch and it's worked so far. We'll see how it fairs under antifreeze all winter. I did buy the above Whale switch as a backup. Keeping the contacts clean is mandatory routine maintenance. I'm in my bilge often enough, so that isn't too inconvenient.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

One boat back we had electronic switches in shower sumps. I don't remember the brand but they had 2 contacts on the exterior that measured something (capacitance, resistance?). They came with the boat that was early 90's vintage. They were unreliable unless cleaned often. Scum on the contacts would sometimes make them stick on. Maybe there are new ones that are better, but it would seem to me than any electrical measurement of the characteristics of water might be subject to being fooled by contamination. I'm not sure of this, would be great to hear from someone who knows this to be a fact or not.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The instructions that come with the switch do say you must wipe the contacts down periodically. I would think a soapy, dead skin, hairy shower sump would contaminate the switch much more often than the average bilge.

For what it's worth, I prefer a manual on/off switch for a shower sump.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Had a float switch for years but, it failed unexpectedly. Took it apart and found internal corrosion from water intrusion was the problem. Looked great on the outside though. Switched to a Water Witch and is working well though I needed to adjust height to prevent cycling from back flow when it shut off. Never had a problem with it sticking on though. Thinking I may add a float switch in parallel with it as extra protection. Always good to have a backup.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Any time I've seen a test of float switches, the electronic ones seem to come out worst because they find new and clever ways to fail. 

The only system I would have faith in, would be a magnet on the float, and a sealed reed switch on the pump circuit. As long as the float can move, that's immune to environmental problems. No, I don't know who is making them or if anyone is making them, but a $5 toilet float tube and the magnet parts are all you would need to DIY with any pump. And those "donut" floats are pretty hard to jam.(G)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've had countless switches fail. Multiple times in the same season even. Failures where they won't come on have almost always been early after launch, after winter freezing. Otherwise, mid season has mostly been failure to shut back off. Just my experience.

On my current boat, the air conditioners drain to the bilge, so it's common for me to hear them cycle ever 10-15 mins at the dock. While rough on the pumps, it's actually a reassurance that all is working.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I have been using the blue Sure Bail float switches for more than 25 years and I can't remember when one failed. They have a nifty way of checking their operation with your fingers, not water (great in a dry bilge) and they have a cage around the float that seems to do it's job perfectly. They seem impervious to oil, fuel and any chemicals I've ever had in a bilge, and no electrolysis or corrosion. 
I've tried electronic ones, air operated ones, those that test for water every few minutes, and not one comes close to the reliability and simplicity of these switches, or the value, as they may be the cheapest on the market.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> I have been using the blue Sure Bail float switches for more than 25 years and I can't remember when one failed.


Varying experiences with float switches is interesting. I went to look at the Sure Bail switch and found numerous horrible reviews. I trust your experience was better, it just seems no switch treats all boaters the same.

I once replaced my Rule float switch that failed, with a Rule Super Float Switch. It said it was Super and they charged me more for it! I literally found it stuck in the on position about a week later. Second replacement Super switch did the same thing, stuck on after a few weeks.



> They have a nifty way of checking their operation with your fingers


The electronic swithces from both Johnson Pumps and Whale can be checked with your fingers as well. You put one over each sensor and the pump circuit will close.

A nice reported feature is that oil/diesel isn't supposed to activate the electronic switch like it would a float switch.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I have had one of these in my bilge for the past 4 years with ZERO problems.









The guy that taught my marine electrical class recommended it, as he had used them in his commercial business (fishing boats, ferries, etc.), and never had a failure.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

eherlihy said:


> I have had one of these in my bilge for the past 4 years with ZERO problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are these the same as the aqualarm switches?

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|51|2234242&id=744053


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

BoatyardBoy said:


> Are these the same as the aqualarm switches?
> 
> Aqualarm Smart Bilge Pump Switch with Alarm


No. The USS has a built in 30A relay. The aqualarm is rated at 20A. There may be other differences too...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Nice to see two companies have finally marinized the toilet tank float.(G)


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

eherlihy said:


> I have had one of these in my bilge for the past 4 years with ZERO problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1 for this product...6 years, no problems.


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## hopcar (Jul 6, 2013)

There are two types of electronic bilge switches with no moving parts. The first type has two contacts that rely on the conductivity of the water to trigger the switch. The Water Witch is an example of this type. The other type relies on "field effect" to sense the water.
I have no idea what field effect is but Whale, Jabsco and Johnson all have pumps that use it. I think it makes use of a Flux Gate Capacitor to sense the water.

"_The only system I would have faith in, would be a magnet on the float, and a sealed reed switch on the pump circuit." _

That describes the Ultra Switch, the Aqualarm Switch and the Wema bilge switch. Wema also makes tank level senders using that idea.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

switches and more switches. 
I am using two float types, one higher then the other connected to the worlds most reliable pump, PAR 34600 diaphragm type, two of them.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> On my current boat, the air conditioners drain to the bilge, so it's common for me to hear them cycle ever 10-15 mins at the dock. While rough on the pumps, it's actually a reassurance that all is working.


something is wrong there. Either you have the worlds smallest bilge, or your AC's are throwing off 60 gallons an hour of condensate?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

UnionPacific said:


> ....the worlds most reliable pump, PAR 34600 diaphragm type, two of them.


Reliable probably, but expensive and relatively low volume. Rule 2000 pumps are reliable as well and pump 3 times the volume for less than 25% of the price.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

eherlihy said:


> I have had one of these in my bilge for the past 4 years with ZERO problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bingo!!

Unfortunately the bilge switches I liked most were discontinued because boaters were simply not willing to pay for a quality switch.. Today the Ultra Safety Switch is about as good as it gets... They are very reliable but the form factor is a bit awkward...


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

mitiempo said:


> Reliable probably, but expensive and relatively low volume. Rule 2000 pumps are reliable as well and pump 3 times the volume for less than 25% of the price.


the diaphragm does not suffer the same head issue as the centrifugal pump.
So its 600 GPH. it would take about a rule 2000 to move the same amount of water.
More expensive? you bet. But its a pump you buy to use for 20 years, not 2-4 years. Everyone I have spoken to has used the rule, all with failures between 6 months, and 2-3 years. far from reliable. Of course I will be buying a 4000GPH, and an 8000GPH portable for emergencies.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

UnionPacific said:


> something is wrong there. Either you have the worlds smallest bilge, or your AC's are throwing off 60 gallons an hour of condensate?


Very wide bilge, so there is a formed lower bilge, where the bilge pickups and switches are located. I bet it holds about a quart of water. The advantage is not having stagnant water sit for long and stink. Does cycle the pump more frequently.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

MedSailor said:


> Yay. DEFINATELY Yay.
> 
> Trust me, I'm a recovering wooden boat owner. (hands shaking as he types)
> 
> ...


I had two just failed. Both less than one year old.


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## norahs arc (Jan 23, 2013)

Re electronic bilge pump switches.
Had one once - got old fashioned one again.
Nuff said


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