# Here goes... can you help me with the short list for my next boat?



## OrangeCrush (Jun 17, 2015)

Hello all,

I just sold my first boat, a 1978 Pearson 26, and I've started saving up for a bigger and more seaworthy cruising sailboat. I've read a lot of posts like this (and seen some people get torn to shreds), but I'm hoping to explain my criteria and budget and see if you can help me critique my list and overall approach. I'm still in the 'vow of poverty' stage of this process and it will be at least a year, probably two, before I'm ready to start looking at specific boats. But of course that hasn't stopped me from obsessing over my options.

What I'm going to use it for: 

I'm a middle school teacher in NYC with two months off every summer that I use to go sailing. I've sailed my Pearson 26 up the coast of New England and into the Bay of Fundy four out of the last five years. I've been joined by up to four friends so space on the P26 was absurdly tight. We're used to close quarters but we definitely need more space and a much more seaworthy vessel. Maybe more than 4 people would join me in the future if we had the room. I plan on going back up to Maine on a regular basis and well beyond to places like Nova Scotia, the Gulf of St. Lawrence, Newfoundland, maybe even Labrador and Greenland someday. I could also see sailing south to the Caribbean, over to Bermuda, and pretty much any other place we can get to from New York and back in two and a half months. Apart from summers, in 14 years I can retire and I plan on living aboard and sailing around the world, probably as a small family or with a few friends but also for some stretches by myself. Even though it's far away, I'd like my next boat to be capable of serving this purpose as well. I want a boat that can safely take me pretty much anywhere, and I have a particular affinity for cold and remote locations. I know that every trip will involve its own preparations, and I'm well aware that being offshore ready depends more on me than on the type of boat I have. I will be diligent about all my planning, but I want the boat herself to have proven and unassailable bluewater credentials as well. In other words, if I'm ready for Cape Horn someday but I have doubts about my vessel it would be a big disappointment.

What I'm looking for in a boat:
-Around 35 to 40 feet in length. 
-Heavy, definitely over 15,000lbs displacement and preferably closer to 20,000lbs
-Full keel w/ cutaway, or if not full then at least an extremely robust hull with encapsulated ballast and a well protected rudder/prop. 
-Cutter rig strongly preferred, but a sloop could do if I rigged a solent stay for a place to put a storm jib. I don't really want a ketch but I'm not ruling it out completely.
-I'm willing to sacrifice speed for comfort and safety but something at least relatively fun to sail and not terribly slow would be a huge plus. 
-Not fussy about cabin layout but I think decent motor access is crucial. 
-I'm not afraid of maintenance but I'd prefer simplicity over complex systems in general

My budget:

I'm hoping to spend about 50k-60k on the initial purchase of the boat. At this price I'd like the boat to be more or less ready for coastal cruising, and it absolutely needs to be structurally sound, but it wouldn't have to be completely bluewater ready. I could take time and make more upgrades little by little. If I found that the best boats were still a little out of my reach at that price, I could wait another year and save more, and buy something closer to the 75k range, or just keep looking until I found a really good deal. I'm willing to be patient in order to get a boat that will keep my satisfied for decades, maybe for life.

Here is my list so far, with a thought or two about each one:

*Tayana 37* (a little pricey but perhaps my favorite, especially one with a fiberglass deck)
*Cabo Rico 38* (maybe hard to find in my price range in good enough shape)
*Cape Dory 36* (fits my criteria perfectly but perhaps a little overpriced compared to the Alberg 37, others)
*Kaiser Gale Force 34* (seems amazing but barely any out there to choose from)
*Baba 35* (not sure if it's a good enough value for the size)
*Southern Cross 35 or 38 *(not a full keel but strong and good performance, although maybe the 38 is too expensive)
*Cabot 36* (overall build quality concerns)
*Pacific Seacraft 34* (great boat but a little small for the price)
*PSC Crealock 37* (probably too pricey)
*Bristol 39/40* (lots to choose from but cutters are harder to find)
*Alberg 37* (good value, maybe a little tight below decks and tender)
*Morgan 382/383/384* (good price point but concerns about overall quality and keel/hull strength)

Hopefully you can see some thread of continuity in what I'm looking for and what I want to do with it. I'd be eager to hear if you think any good boats are missing from the list, or that any boats should be moved to the top, or about any that should be taken off completely. I'm also curious to see if you think my budget is realistic, especially given the context of a very patient search process.

In the end it will come down to the individual boats that are available when I'm ready to buy, which is why I think developing a good list is important. But I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on my overall approach. I'm torn between the idea of reaching for the absolute nicest type of boat I can afford, even if it were not cosmetically perfect or fully equipped (but again, definitely structurally sound), since I will have the time to make improvements after I buy it. I'm thinking things like the Tayana 37 and the Cabo Rico 38 fall into this category, boats that might be just out of reach but maybe worth reaching a little farther for.

Alternatively, I could buy something a little farther from the top of my 'wish list' that was better equipped/upgraded and in better overall and cosmetic shape. Boats like the Morgan 38, Bristol 39/40 or Alberg 37 might serve for this approach. This second strategy seems more practical and could save me money/time in the long run, but I might be less likely to get something that I'm really in love with.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated as to how to approach this process, what factors to focus on, and how to decide when it's still time to keep saving up versus time to just pull the trigger and buy something.

Thanks a lot!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Well OrangeCrush, I commend you on your list, but be prepared to hear from those who will tell you your list is wrong-headed, and stuck in the 1970s/80s.

To your list I'd add the Valiants (40/42 & 37), the Fast Passage 39, and perhaps the Tartan 37. Of course I'd also add my own personal favourite: the Rafiki-37 (can you guess why it's my favourite ). There's a nice article on these boats by John Kretschmer here on Sailnet: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat-articles/19539-through-cracks.html. There's also a semi-active thread here: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...3-rafiki-37-owners-out-there.html#post2850697. They are rare, but not impossible to find.

This site: Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org has a nice list of boats that will appeal to you as well.

I hesitate to offer life advice about whether you should buy THE boat now, or wait until you're closer to retirement. After all, 14 years is a long time, and lots will change with boats and you. Usually its wisest to buy the boat that you need now, and for the relatively immediate future. But all the boats on your list would be good for your stated short-term plans.

As far as some specifics, I assume you already know this stuff, but boats on your list are well built, but will be older. Decks will have to be examine for water intrusion, standing rigging, engine, thru-hulls ... pretty much everything outside of the physical structure of the boats will have needed to have been maintained well and/or replaced. Many on your list have teak decks. I love ours, but it is a source of potential problems.


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

Do not look at the price. Cape George fits your description.


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## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

If you prefer colder climates, I would also stay away from a boat with teak decks. Everyone knows the term "leaky teaky." Leaky teaky in the summer will mean cracked decks in the winter, then more leaks the next summer. I'm sure you've thought on this too, but in a colder climate, I'd look for a boat that has enough room for a decent wood stove. And the wood stove I got would definitely have enough room on top (with a sea rail) to boil water, make a soup, etc. Along the main cabin bulkhead, next to the dinette is usually the place for the stove, unless you have an unusual layout.

I agree with Mike, 14 years is a long time, and a lot can change between now and then. If it were me, and it's not, I would buy the boat that suited me now and several years from now, also as Mike mentioned is smart. It doesn't take long to move your stuff off one boat and onto the next. Several hours, maybe a half day if you've got lots of stuff. 

Also, I'm a fan of "making a boat yours"... that is, buying a boat that somewhat suits you and making it just the way you want it. Though it can take a lot of time, and all projects seem to take at least twice as long as you think they will. If you suck at planning time, like me, anyways. If the hull is right, everything else can be worked with. Bulkheads can be tabbed in more and thicker, overhead deck stringers can be built in, fairing strips can be installed along the hull to take insulation underneath, then covered with some nice tongue and groove boards, etc. If you have time, don't shy away from the work. Aside from saving yourself a lot of money, you learn a lot. Which can't be given a reasonable price.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I just sold my first boat, a 1978 Pearson 26, and I've started saving up for a bigger and more seaworthy cruising sailboat. I've read a lot of posts like this (and seen some people get torn to shreds), but I'm hoping to explain my criteria and budget and see if you can help me critique my list and overall approach. I'm still in the 'vow of poverty' stage of this process and it will be at least a year, probably two, before I'm ready to start looking at specific boats. But of course that hasn't stopped me from obsessing over my options.
> 
> ...


Tagish is for sale. Just do a search under Tagish. Just finished a circumnavigation. Well insulated and very well built and equipped. Ideal for your proposed uses. New sails in Hawaii for the final trip home.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Any boat of 30 feet up is going to feel huge after that Pearson 26. Most of what you describe is coastal cruising. And I'm not sure heading to the Caribbean in hurricane season is the smartest idea. Personally I would look for a bigger coastal cruiser for your summer excursions and then get that retirement boat when the time comes. Remember that in the summer here in the northeast, lighter winds are more common than gales. I would prefer to have a boat that would perform in those conditions than some of the heavy cruisers you list.


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## OrangeCrush (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks for the input so far. Good point about Hurricane Season, Jim; I threw in the Caribbean as an option but you're right it's probably not the best choice. Also thanks for the tip about the teak and the stove in cold weather, Tbone. In my searches I've seen only a couple of boats with wood stoves. How does a diesel heater measure up in your opinion? 

As for the question of buying a boat for now versus buying THE boat, fourteen years actually doesn't seem so far away. I've had the Pearson for eight years now, and in retrospect it was pretty close to the perfect boat for me when I bought it. Even so, I probably 'outgrew' it after the first 2 or 3 years, but I had already invested enough money and time equipping it for my purposes that I felt compelled to keep it longer and sail it more ambitiously than what probably made sense. And as you might guess I am not getting a return on the money I invested. I'd like to avoid this pattern on the next boat by thinking a little farther ahead. 

It seems like many of the qualities I'll want in a boat for circumnavigation are the same that would serve me well around the North Atlantic. Even though Newfoundland is technically coastal sailing, those are definitely demanding waters and they can get rough quick, even in August. Without a lot of support around for pleasure boaters, a full keel would have a much better chance of surviving an encounter with some rocks or ice and allow me to make it back to the safety of a port. Plus I plan on doing some offshore passages between the coastal destinations. I think if I got a heavy and safe boat in solid shape, I could gradually improve my own offshore sailing skills while upgrading the boat gradually so that when the time finally came, both of us would be ready.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Here ya go! 1972 Morgan Out Island 41 sailboat for sale in Massachusetts

Good luck,

Gary


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Most non urban, full time liveaboards around BC, eventually graduate to a wood stove. You will find very few without a good woodstove. The beaches here are piled high with fuel, free for the taking, any time. 
In over 40 years of living aboard , mostly in BC, I have found that my current stove ,11 inches wide, by 12 inches high, by 18 inches long is minimum size. It is very important that it be airtight, so you can absolutely control the burn rate, and turn it off any time, even when full of wood ,by simply shutting down the air intake.
Insulation, lots of it, is also very important where you plan to cruise. Any place you see condensation requires the adding of more insulation. Stock plastic boats come with an abysmal lack of insulation.
A wheelhouse and inside steering will be a huge advantage where you plan to cruise.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Pearson 365? Countess? Both might fit the bill. Or listen to smackers and get a hunter 40. ?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

A CSY 37 fits the bill. 

Strongly built. Roomy because of the Flush deck layout. Excellent tankage.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Find a good broker and go and look at boats. Lots of boats, lot of _different_ boats.

When I bought my second boat I was absolutely convinced what type of boat I wanted.

I had the good fortune though of meeting a patient and decent broker, who took me through a range of different boats and designs and explained the pros and cons. By the end of the process I ended up buying a boat quite different to what I had originally _thought_ I wanted.

Not saying you don't know what your doing, just that you don't get too many chances to go boat shopping so take your time and look around. You may buy a Hunter


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## nolesailor (Oct 29, 2009)

I am 20+ years away from retirement, so take this advice with that thought in mind...but...I would agree with others that suggested buying a boat for your immediate needs and then buying the retirement boat at that time. The boats you listed I would imagine are pretty old...late '70s/80s. A 1985 boat is already 30 years old. Add 14 years until retirement (44 years) and then cruising for a number of years (maybe 10?) and you're looking at a boat that is pushing 55-60 years old. A boat from the '70s would be even older. That strikes me as a pretty old boat to be cruising the oceans in, although I'm sure it is being done as we speak. 

I'll be in a similar situation in a couple of years...looking to move to a larger boat as our daughter gets older...our plan (who knows if it will work out) for our next boat is to buy a larger coastal cruiser we can keep until retirement and then look for the retirement boat...


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Are you absolutely not going to consider anything above or below 35-40 ?


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