# Tartan 27 or Tartan 30



## Onrust (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey, all. I thought I'd reap the wisdom of the crowds as I narrow down my search for a sailboat. Basically, I'm looking for a versatile boat. I want something that I can single-hand in the Puget Sound for day and some overnight trips without too much hassle, but that can also be used offshore when time and my sailing ability allow.

After a lot of reading and visiting boats on the market, I've narrowed down my search to the Tartan 27 and the Tartan 30. Both boats have the beautiful lines of the classics from that era, but without a full keel. The headroom is decent for smaller boats, which is important to me (being over 6 ft). I especially like the versatility of both boats, that I could possibly use them in the Sound, and make decent speed, and also use them in blue water.

My difficulty is in deciding between the two. 

In the Tartan 30's favor is the longer LWL, which could result in greater speed. The 30 also has a roomier cabin, of course. Unlike the 27, there is no centerboard to worry about. If I do ever get offshore, the greater length may make for a slightly more comfortable ride.

On the other hand, a functional centerboard makes the 27 a versatile boat. The shorter length of the 27 (and the shorter mast) will reduce winter storage costs, which are exorbitant in Island. 

Forgive me for thinking out loud. I'm sure most of my conflicting ideas about these boats will be resolved as I see more 27s and 30s in person, as the condition of the particular 27 or 30 I end up purchasing will likely be the deciding factor anyway. But I figured it wouldn't hurt to solicit the opinions of sailors who have more experience with these two models.


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## lajimo (Sep 5, 2011)

The best way to tell is to sail both of them - in the current Market I bet you can get some owners to take you on a test sail if you explain you are serious and trying to narrow down. All else being equal of course the boat in the best condition wins.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

The Tartan 30 is twice the boat the 27 is. No comparison from any perspective. If you want a nice sailing, comfortable pocket cruiser a T30 is hard to beat. 
As to going to Bermuda, you and you preparation would be the major limiting factors, not whether the boat will continue to float.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

When are you planning to buy this boat?

Think carefully, and answer truthfully...

I strongly suggest that you buy the boat that you will use today, _today_.

Keep shopping for the boat that you will use tomorrow, while enjoying the boat that you buy today.

I too, dream of sailing off shore to distant lands in an ocean crossing capable vessel. However, I am not going without my wife, and she has never been in the open ocean, and it will take some sailing time to get here there. Also, to be honest, 95% of the sailing that I have done has been coastal cruising.

So, while the Passport 40, CS36T, Sabre 38, Tartan 40, and SeaWind 1160 (Oysters / Swans / etc.) all look great, I *BOUGHT* an O'day 35.


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## Onrust (Apr 22, 2012)

eherlihy said:


> When are you planning to buy this boat?
> 
> Think carefully, and answer truthfully...
> 
> ...


I just want to make myself clear. I'm not going to buy a boat and head out to Bermuda the next day. I'm not on a suicide mission. I've sailed for many years but still know that I need more experience before I go offshore. For me a Tartan 27 or 30 _is_ a compromise. The designs lend themselves to both types of sailing that I hope to do.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

The above post is correct, there is no comparison between the two. I've been on both. I say skip the later upgrade, and just buy the T30 now. Enjoy the extra room and easy engine access of the T30.


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

I agree also on buying the T30. It's a bigger nicer boat. And you are correct in buying the boat that is in the best shape for the money.


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## Onrust (Apr 22, 2012)

MarkCK said:


> I agree also on buying the T30. It's a bigger nicer boat. And you are correct in buying the boat that is in the best shape for the money.


I find myself slightly in favor of the T30 myself. I'm checking out another one this week, and if it looks good, will follow up with a survey. I'll let you all know how it works out.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I like your choices in potential boats. I'm not an impartial judge though since I own a T27.

We race our T27 against a T30 and often enough we get 1st place after PHRF correction. That said, not all T30's are the same. There is a tall mast version and a standard version and the boat we race against is the std. version. 
"The standard rig includes a fin keel with skeg hung rudder that draws 5' while the tall rig has an extra 3 feet of mast, 5'6" of draft and an extra 500 pounds of lead."
Source: TARTAN 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The T27 has a modified full keel that is 3'6" deep. I've heard it referred to as a full keel with a cutaway fore foot. This helps it track well on a course. It also makes it a bit slower to come about. The center board drops to 6' and allows one to move the CLR fore or aft which you can't do with a big fin keel like the T30 has.

The T30 would be my choice if I was looking for a 30' boat. The engine access on the T30 is wonderful. I'd bet that the cabin interior seems twice the size of my T27.

Perhaps for obvious reasons I like the look of the T27 better then the T30. The T27 sails wonderfully even with the center board all the way up. The shallower draft is nice for coastal cruising and being able to get into skinny water places.

Recently launched:


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Caleb, I'm embarrassed to admit that I was soundly beaten by a beautifully restored T-27 in this Wednesday's evening race. I don't mean corrected over, I mean beaten boat for boat. 

It was a very light air night, and the skipper of that boat is definitely skilled. I'll pass along some photos if I can get some.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Bubbles,
It is a rare race day that we beat the competition over the finish line boat for boat. 
There was one light wind race we sailed in when our center board was stuck in the up position. Normally we play with the damn thing, raising it on downwind and reaches and lowering it for upwind legs. That race we couldn't fiddle with it and ended up in 1st place. Learned something that day. We race on a river with almost 2 knots of current and sometimes the extra slippage or leeway can be an advantage over deeper keeled boats.
Another of our top competitors is a 90+ year old captain who sails a Ranger 23' with his sons. I'll be damned if that old silver fox does not find a way to beat us outright half of the time. Our boats have the same PHRF so it is always an interesting finish. 
It goes to show that it is not always the boat's design but more likely the captain and his/her tactics that gets them across the finish line first.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

Not sure how far along you are on choosing one boat over another...
but since I have a friend that has owned both the S&S Tartan 30 and a S&S Yankee 30, it might be worth noting that he liked them both as offshore boats -- both for racing and cruising.

They have quite a bit in common - general look, seaworthiness, and design. You might want to consider both rather than only the Tartan.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

CalebD said:


> Bubbles,
> It is a rare race day that we beat the competition over the finish line boat for boat.
> There was one light wind race we sailed in when our center board was stuck in the up position. Normally we play with the damn thing, raising it on downwind and reaches and lowering it for upwind legs. That race we couldn't fiddle with it and ended up in 1st place. Learned something that day. We race on a river with almost 2 knots of current and sometimes the extra slippage or leeway can be an advantage over deeper keeled boats.
> Another of our top competitors is a 90+ year old captain who sails a Ranger 23' with his sons. I'll be damned if that old silver fox does not find a way to beat us outright half of the time. Our boats have the same PHRF so it is always an interesting finish.
> *It goes to show that it is not always the boat's design but more likely the captain and his/her tactics that gets them across the finish line first*.


Definitely. On the 2nd to last leg, we were overtaking the T-27. I whispered to my crew that I wanted to take him on the outside and give him the gas, rather than go below and get in his foul air.

Without even looking back, I guess he heard the hiss of water against my hull and once we were overlapping him, he began luffing us up. He drove me too far away from my desired course, so I gave up and dove below him, but by then it was too late.

The final leg was downwind in 5kts or less. From there, we simply maintained our relative positions.

I'm going to see if I can scround a whisker pole from Bacon Sails this week. It definitely would have helped.


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## 75Tartan30 (Dec 23, 2011)

I researched both extensively while searching for my boat and came to the same conclusion as most. The T-30 is the better choice by far.


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

Like most posters I agree the T30 is a good choice. I have a T30 but have not sailed a T27. As already mentioned the T30, Yankee 30 and S&S 30 are almost identical boats.

One consideration relates to offshore sailing. The boat is very sturdy, but the cockpit is big, the scuppers are small and there is no bridgedeck. Adding or enlarging the scuppers and glassing in the lower part of the companionway would not be too big a job and would be a good idea to avoid downflooding if you get swamped.


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## Warren M. (Jun 3, 2006)

Both are very good boats, depending on individual condition as both may be somewhat long in the tooth. I'd go for the T30 for all the reasons mentioned by other posters plus one more: the T27 has a cross member under the mast that I always bumped my head on.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I have a cousin with a 1976 T-30 and a friend with a T-27. The 27 will definitely feel small compared to the 30 but is still a viable offshore boat properly equiped. The 30 will be a more responsive, faster boat and perhaps mroe fun. One thing to consider is the tankage. Both were originally equiped with the Atomic 4, but as an option on the 30, a UNiversal diesel was offered. There are two layout for the 30, one with a mid-ship galley on the starboard and the other with an aft galley. My cousin has the midship version and it's OK, but I think I personally like the aft version.
Just like most S&S designed boats of that era, both will heel to a point, settle in then start Smokin'

Oh, by the way, I just rebuilt my cousin's rudder which the inner metal tabbing broke (corroded) away from the rudder post, so this may be an issue to look for. I fabricated the new skeleton out of a better grade stainless than what Tartan used.


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## Onrust (Apr 22, 2012)

I thought I'd check in with an update. Since I lasted posted, I visited a few more Tartans in my area. I saw a 27 today that was being offered for a low price, but had a lot of issues. Parts of the deck were bouncy and would need a recore and the cabin would need a good amount of work to bring it up to date. I could sail it this season with the deck as is, but it is something that I'd have to have taken care of. I've heard recoring isn't the most difficult job in the world, but I really lack the experience in fiberglass work to feel comfortable tackling it myself.

Anyway, I'm still looking for boats, and now leaning more towards the 27 than I had been before.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

After 10 years of co-owning a T27 in the NY area all I can say is that it is a great boat. It sails great, looks great, turns heads and the shoal draft is nearly perfect for the LI Sound or Chessy areas. It was built like a Cadillac in it's day but is a much older lady now. 
Our T27 has taught me a lot about boat maintenance. This past winter we replaced the entire drive train on our boat with a new SS shaft, hose, Cutless bearing and whatnot. I now know how to debug an Atomic 4 engine and get it running and tuned.
I haven't had to tackle the one soft spot we have on our deck yet. It seems to be a perennial problem with these older boats where hardware was installed and not properly bedded or re-bedded but the decks can get a bit soft. Several T27 owners have undertaken this project (not me) and have photos of their projects on our T27Owners Yahoo group: T27Owners : Tartan 27 Owners Yahoo Group 
if you are interested.
A T27 will cost you only marginally less then a T30 to finance yearly but you will likely make up for that with projects you want/need or should do. Once the projects are done it is just a slightly cheaper but prettier boat - I find that the projects are never done though.


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## Ltwud (May 10, 2012)

We sail the same waters as I will have my 24' in the sound this summer as I look for a 27-30' boat. What changed my dream for an off shore boat was going on a delivery of a 40' from the sound to Astoria over Memorial weekend. It was rougher than I had dreamed and even though the weather could have been much worse it wasn't just a little more intense than the sound... It was the way more intense and it cured me of PNW offshore dreams. I'm going to do the sound and then head up north to the inside passage next year. Off shore in Washington/Oregon makes the Caribbean seem like kindergarten. We arguably have some of the best summer sailing in the country here in protected waters but with the intense tides and roughed shorelines I think wise Washington sailers first use an airplane before getting on the boat to enjoy blue water


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Onrust said:


> Hey, all. I thought I'd reap the wisdom of the crowds as I narrow down my search for a sailboat. Basically, I'm looking for a versatile boat. I want something that I can single-hand in the Puget Sound for day and some overnight trips without too much hassle, but that can also be used offshore when time and my sailing ability allow.
> 
> After a lot of reading and visiting boats on the market, I've narrowed down my search to the Tartan 27 and the Tartan 30. Both boats have the beautiful lines of the classics from that era, but without a full keel. The headroom is decent for smaller boats, which is important to me (being over 6 ft). I especially like the versatility of both boats, that I could possibly use them in the Sound, and make decent speed, and also use them in blue water.
> 
> ...


I am not a big fan of centerboards unless you really need one. A fixed keel will help you point higher and give you better performance. I think you will be very happy to have the longer waterline of the 30.


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