# 150,000 Boat



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Ok, my friends, I will lean on you a bit. My pops & mom (Gentlebreeze) are boat searching. They are going cruising with us. I think most of the folks here know our locale: Fl first, head down south to the islands, etc. He may buy it immediately like I did and drop it in Texoma for outfitting, then ship back offshore. Or, we may just leave it in Texas. It is just him and mom (and the grandkids as much as we can rub them off!!).

We will possibly/likely Live aboard in SW Fl to keep building up the cruising kitty... whether I can take a day or a year is still up for discussion, but every month they (mom and dad) and me and the kids LA, that is another month-2 months cruising. 

SO, 150k. Used boat. What would you buy if you were them? Dad likes the Catalina 350 (he has great taste... hahah), but I am not married to Catalina and since those are the only boats I have ever really owned and cruised, I will not speak out of turn on the others.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks for your help...

- CD

PS My mom dad are our best friends (Kris & mine)... so please be nice!!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Hey Mr. CD²...don't buy a Catalina....please Sir...buy a boat....

Halberg Rassy...there's a nice boat...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I like HR's. It is one of Kris' favorite boats, not in the top 5 for me. But at 150k, how old will that tub be??


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

before making any suggestions, how fit are your parents?? And how much experience sailing do they have?? 

The reason I ask is handling a larger sailboat is still fairly demanding physically, and even if you're part of a couple, you're often effectively single-handing the boat. But you already know this.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD...its your dad, and I'm not joking....its a Hallber Rassy...even if initially they spend a litle more, say...20.000 more...they will save that..

How??

If they bought a catalina, sooner or later they would spend those 20.000 on some usless stuff that would break...they will almost maintain boat value, and THEIR SAFETY AT THAT AGE...Catalinas may be nice, but a HR much smoother on an old timer...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Good questions SD:

Mom and dad are fit, but pops had a back surgery about 9 months ago. massive pulling, etc, would be tough. He owns a cabinet maker shop right now, so he is always pulling and lifting sheets of plywood (3/4"... not light).

Mom is fit too. 

As far as the sailing experience, not a lot. Mom and dad have obviously gone out with us many times. Dad took the sailing classes recently. Mom has little/none. He will be learning from scratch (other than what the class has taught him and what he has learned with me). On the positive side, we will be with them every step of the way - so they have a step up over many others.

Did that help?

- CD


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD...YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

If it was my Dad...I wouldn't think twice..and he still sail around you!!!ehehehehe


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu,

Like this?

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

This is way too weird CD . . . that HR is owned by our dockmates. TrueBlue's on the port side-2 boats down. Nice young Scandinavian family - they didn't tell me they were selling.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/6/1/8/8/1618899_9.jpg?1162504827000


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

That's the one of the two I showed you above..yes that is a good boat for them.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yup... that does help...

A HR 34 would be a really nice boat for them... solid too...and easier to handle in the heavy stuff than a Catalina IMHO. The sails are a good deal smaller than the Catalina 350-592 sq. ft, vs 730 sq. ft. or thereabouts.

A 2001 Hallberg Rassy 34 is listing for $179,000 in Connecticut, so I'd bet you could get it for about $150-160,000. That isn't too bad... just old enough that you've taken all of the depreciation out of the picture..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think my listing from boats.com is the same boat as Giu was talking about.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD...The boat is known to TB jump on it NOW::::::::::::::::::::::::


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TB didn't say they took good care of their boat... if he does, that's a point in the boat's favor.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks Giu. I know you are being honest!! I will show them to Pops. Any other boats you like?

TB,

That is wierd! Probably the dock neighbors scared them off (just kidding). What other boats would you suggest? Do you have any thoughts?

- CD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TB,

WOuld you reccomend a Nauticat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Nauticats are really nice.. I like the Nauticat 331, it is a very pretty and very solid boat. I don't think TB would disagree.. but his opinion may be biased in this matter just a bit.

I also like the Nauticat 351, which is a more traditional sailboat, than the 331. If that's a bit too pricey, then go with the Nauticat 321... which is a bit smaller, and also quite nice..

The Nauticats that are available used are mostly in the $90,000 range and are about 20 years old though. Most are Nauticat 33 motorsailors, rather than the more traditional sailboats.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Other Choices*

I think the Catalina 350 is generally a good choice for a new boater - they shouldn't have many maintenance issues to deal with, and it's reasonable quality for the money. They don't sound like they're good candidates for a HR - they going to be crossing oceans soon? I would think the positive boat characteristics of the HR would not be a good tradeoff for maintenance hasells and less space, not mention living with a tiller!

The worry I'd have is that the 350 is a basic boat, and not very big - I'd think it'd get pretty small quickly just for a couple, let alone to include grandkids too - you run the risk of having the whole gang always on YOUR boat.

My advice is to get something bigger, but well equipped for coastal cruising and liveaboard. My favorite might be a Bristol 38.8 such as YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale= or YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale=

Note the equipment on these boats - put one off the listings next to a typical Catalina 350, cross off everyhting in common on the listings, then see how stuff is left on the Bristol. Not to mention that the Bristol 38.8 is simply gorgeous..

I guess it comes down to drive a brand new Chevy or drive a slightly older, well maintanted Mercedes...what would work best for them.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Bristols are beautiful boats too... he's just looking for suggestions, so we're giving him some ideas.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CD and all,
Couple of points from an old fart who may be a few years behind CD's parents but catching up fast.

Berths.....We bought Raven after a few years away from boat ownership. Used the same parameters I would have used 20 years ago when we went toe dipping again. Didn't realise how much flexibility I'd lost. Raven has a very similar layout to that HR34. At my age getting in and out of a V-Berth double and/or quarterberth is not easy particularly when another body is already present. It's quite funny really, I can climb to the top of the mast, no problem, but twisting and turning to get in an out of a berth , can be done but not top of the Wombat hit parade. 

Head...size and shape thereof. 

Conclusion.....while we will probably cruise Raven up the coast of Oz and some offshore islands I'd not be all that happy if we had to make her our home for a number of years. Now I find myself judging boats by criteria that I thought unimportant a few years back, notably is there a nice double berth I/we can get in and out of easily, is the galley a seriously workable food preparation area, can you swing a cat in the head ?

Result of all this is that we're looking pretty seriously at going centre cockpit even though I have always preferred the sailing and aesthetics of aft cockpits. With the exception of some of Perry's designs there are very few aft cockpit boats with a seriously workable aft cabin and/or pullman style berth. Under 40' it's hard to find a v-berth that has enough width up front to sleep with your feet aft. 

I really like HRs, would own one in a flash if I could afford it but the 40' centre cockpits are a tad on the expensive side. I'm not going to suggest alternatives to the HR as we are looking more to European boats if we can't find what we want in Oz or NZ and I'm not really up to scratch on all the yankee boats.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Cd....not HR but also very good

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Soory CD, I just took a dinner break - wife had me grill the boneless chicken breasts she's had marinating in the frig since last night, in extra virgin olive oil, rosemary, garlic, basil & more stuff - which evades me for the moment. 

Man was that tasty - charcoal grilled, then sliced & placed over a fresh mix of spring greens with my homemade balsamic vinegarete, calamata olives, feta, sliced green onions and fresh toasted croutons. Topping it off with a few glasses of Kendal Jackson Special Reserve Chardonnay.

About that Halberg Rassy 34 - very nice looking boat, but I haven't seen the interior - natural teak decks and Selden deck equipment almost identical to what's on my boat. Personally though, I prefer wheel steering - this has a tiller and a saildrive. The cockpit on HRs are typically small, this couple has two young children aged about 3 & 4. They didn't socialize with others, due to the language barrier. We tried once but my Dutch is very poor and his english even worse.

They must have had a mooring in Newport, since the boat was rarely there - unless they cruised extensively. When they were there, they never seemed comfortable hanging at the marina and kept to themselves during the end of season dock party. I also never saw them clean the boat - says a lot for maintenance routines.

The boat was stored on the hard all winter, but if it's launched within the upcoming weeks, I'll give it a close inspection for you. If interested, I'll even call the broker for a tour - and PM the info. Let me know.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Soory CD, I just took a dinner break - wife had me grill the boneless chicken breasts she's had marinating in the frig since last night, in extra virgin olive oil, rosemary, garlic, basil & more stuff - which evades me for the moment.
> 
> Man was that tasty - charcoal grilled, then sliced & placed over a fresh mix of spring greens with my homemade balsamic vinegarete, calamata olives, feta, sliced green onions and fresh toasted croutons. Topping it off with a few glasses of Kendal Jackson Special Reserve Chardonnay.


The hell you are....with that dinner????

Keep it warm, I'm on my way...I'll check the HR for you...

TB...get my seat ready....I'm on my way


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Cd....not HR but also very good
> 
> YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


Hi Gui,

Moody's are fine boats. Maybe a notch below HR, Nautor, Armel and Oyster but that is reflected in the buckazoids. While I don't expect to be seriously shopping this year the Moody 425 is currently at the top of my wish list. That is the wish list that has some degree of reality attached to it. Personally I adore Armels but whoa nelly the price.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

CD- I think mid-90's Caliber 40's and Island Packets in the 36-38' range would be nice comfortable boats for them and in the price range.


TDW...do you really like Amels? They are superb boats but the design choices for the small stuff and the inability to change anything to your preference on a 600-700K boat has always turned me off.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

The problem I see with Amel, is the price (way too much for what it is), what Cam mentioned, and they're real real ugly...sorry.


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

CD,
Im biased but the caliber is realy a solid boat.
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

CD look at there web site for construction details.Caliber Yachts Official Home Page
They are a small 40, 39 on deck they handle more like a 35 and thier 35 is a nice boat also. Roller furling will make it easier on Mom and Pop.
support is awsome even on second hand boats. they are built in largo fl just outside St Pete.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CD-

Still need more suggestions?? Or are you ready to tell CD Sr. what he should be looking for???


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

Here is one more with a lot of gear. Lrc It has the BIG TANKS.
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Passport 40?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Knowing my weakness for the 'China Clippers'... I have been looking at this one. Too much boat? Are they going to live aboard?

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

Cheers,
Andrew


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This might be a bit big, but they are set up with electric everythings and apparently fairly easy for a couple to handle. You would be able to row over with your laundry and do it on their boat... 

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Looking- That's a bit big for two seniors to sail by themselves, don'tcha think.

Sailormann- A bit big and a bit ugly...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I know... but it IS beautiful!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Looking said:


> I know... but it IS beautiful!


 You're hopeless...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> The problem I see with Amel, is the price (way too much for what it is), what Cam mentioned, and they're real real ugly...sorry.


Gui and Cam

Have to admit I do like the Amels. I'd never consider buying one new so the no changes bit (which I didn't know about btw) is not such an issue. Perhaps this says something about me but I don't find them ugly. Slightly quirky perhaps but hey, they are Italian after all. Trust they hold together better than you average Italian Auto !!.

In reality of course I would never consider buying any Amel, new or used , because of the dollars. Also , I'd have to admit that it's the larger Amels that catch my eye and they are really too much boat for what I need or want.

I guess that if it really came down to decision time and I had the bucks I'd almost certainly go Oyster, budget wise Moody. HR and possibly Nauticat who I inadvertently left off the previous list, would be definite possibilities. There are also a couple of Kiwi boats of interest and we had been considering Salar or Carbineer but my feeling is that they are getting a bit too old. Salar and Carbineer are both Laurent Giles designs and most of them were built by Moody. There are a couple of old Swans that appeal but at this stage I think we are committed to centre cockpit, despite my misgivings.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> You're hopeless...


Yes he is but one has to dream my dear SD. 

'owever, 52' with that fitout for $139,000 ? Does that add up ? Something there I don't know about.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

tdw said:


> Yes he is but one has to dream my dear SD.
> 
> 'owever, 52' with that fitout for $139,000 ? Does that add up ? Something there I don't know about.


The owner isn't saying would be my guess...  Soft decks, bad rig, something is probably wrong...


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

sailingdog said:


> The owner isn't saying would be my guess...  Soft decks, bad rig, something is probably wrong...


Anybody out there have first hand knowledge?
Looking, you know any thing more than what is in the Yacht World listing?
Its a Crealock Design, Thats a plus right? If she got a favorable survey, I would think she would be worth a second look.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

If I understand things 'aright, what we have is two novice sailors, though they will be buddying with an experienced pair. They'll be island hopping and coastal cruising. Probably spending considerable time on the hook.

Some of the boats that come to mind, outside of hi-volume production boats (and ones already mentioned) would be the Irwin 37, Pearson 365, Whitby 42 (though that's pushing it on size IMHO).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Considering that CD's folks are getting on in age... anything over 40' is really pushing it. Something in the mid 30' range would make much more sense... especially if you think about them having the grandchildren aboard. Many times they'll effectively be singlehanding whatever boat they get, at least until the grandkids are old enough to crew responsibly.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Sorry guys, I saw the 52 footer and started thinking about myself. I thought Dad had enough advise already.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Hence my comment on the Whitby. 

I agree, mid 30's would probably be best.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hey everybody, great advice and thanks for all the thoughts. I am only here for a second, but wanted to say I appreciate it. As many of you know, I am fairly knowledgeable on sailboats (albeit biased) and often miss some. I apprecaite all the suggestions. Heading to TB's for dinner...

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, we haven't even talked about some catamarans..  Most of the trimarans are going to be too tight space wise... but a 35' cat would be very nice...  Hmmm... are my multihull biases showing...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don't blame you for heading to TB's.. tonight's menu sounded good to me...


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Actually Dawg, I thought about cats, but thought they might be a bit pricey given the budget.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailortjk1 said:


> Sorry guys, I saw the 52 footer and started thinking about myself. I thought Dad had enough advise already.


Crealock design a definate plus. I haven't looked into it any further as yet... Going from Florida to the PNW (Vancouver, BC) would be very expensive. And I agree with Dog... something a bit hincky here... not sure what, but I'm thinking soft decks as well. Look at the other Farringtons listed on YachtWorld:
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## Waymar83 (Jun 5, 2006)

> Gui and Cam
> 
> Have to admit I do like the Amels. I'd never consider buying one new so the no changes bit (which I didn't know about btw) is not such an issue. Perhaps this says something about me but I don't find them ugly. Slightly quirky perhaps but hey, they are Italian after all. Trust they hold together better than you average Italian Auto !!.
> 
> ...


Hey TD,

Sorry to disappoint but the Amel is "French" ... I only know this because the previous owner of our Attalia moved up to a "Super Maramu" (spanking new!), he went over several times during the construction... Really good quality but yeah everything is electric...

How are these boats on performance....?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, quite a few cats and tris to pick from. See here.
That'd give the grand kids a lot more room to roam around in... same with the cabin layout .. since most cats are a three cabin layout... lots of room.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Waymar83 said:


> Hey TD,
> 
> Sorry to disappoint but the Amel is "French" ... I only know this because the previous owner of our Attalia moved up to a "Super Maramu" (spanking new!), he went over several times during the construction... Really good quality but yeah everything is electric...
> 
> How are these boats on performance....?


That explains why I, Giu, and a few others don't like 'em...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> The owner isn't saying would be my guess...  Soft decks, bad rig, something is probably wrong...


My guess is the rig. She is as was mentioned by K1 a Crealock design which should mean brick outhouse. Deck is one piece fibreglass , not cored apparently, which is nice and should be indestructable. Nothing mentioned about effed donk, interior looks to be in reasonable condition apart from needing constant varnishing, so maybe just maybe like a few of Crealocks designs she sails like a barge. Schooner rig won't help but probably quite respectable off the wind.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> That explains why I, Giu, and a few others don't like 'em...


Definitely not my day. Funny, I always thought they were Italian. Hmm, think I'll file under "Citroen". Wonderful concept shame about the execution.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Have you seen any of those Hondas that look like Citroens?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PBzeer said:


> Have you seen any of those Hondas that look like Citroens?


No, not seen it. Don't think it's an Australian release, but given my batting average today I'd reckon I could be wrong.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> The Nauticats are really nice.. I like the Nauticat 331, it is a very pretty and very solid boat. *I don't think TB would disagree.. but his opinion may be biased in this matter just a bit.*
> 
> I also like the Nauticat 351, which is a more traditional sailboat, than the 331. If that's a bit too pricey, then go with the Nauticat 321... which is a bit smaller, and also quite nice..
> 
> The Nauticats that are available used are mostly in the $90,000 range and are about 20 years old though. Most are Nauticat 33 motorsailors, rather than the more traditional sailboats.


No SD, I wouldn't disagree with the selection . . . . The 321 is the smallest sloop, with the older NC33 and current NC331 being the smallest pilothouse ketch rigs - designed for motorsailing but respectable under sails only. The models go all the way up to the 515.

We're fifty-something, very healthy and not considering retirement until a few more years. Regardless, I really appreciate the minimal efforts to sail this boat and I singlehand regularly.

I like the boat for it's looks, build quality, solid fiberglass decks (w/teak overlay) two helm stations, pilothouse, ease of sailing with the ketch rig, interior accommodations and ability to motorsail at 9 knots. The motoring range is over 800 miles.

They're still in production in Finland after over 30 years. Unfortunately though, sales were discontinued in the US during the late '80s recession. So, the '80s era boats and older, are what you may expect to see on the market. The boats were reintroduced here again, but I think sales may be down due to the Euro exchange rate.

A new base model 331 will set you back over $350k US - but as SD mentioned, a 20 year old boat can be had for 90k + -. I'm the third owner of mine, a 1986 model, which was always stored indoors for the winter and used lightly. She's in great condition and has many new upgrades. I was able to negotiate ours substantially down in price in 2004 (very motivated sellers  ) and after a hefty downpayment have built up considerable equity . . . typically rare with boats, unheard of if buying new. These wonderful boats are excellent vessels for both cruising families or retirement couples.

Nauticat Yachts Oy


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

SD...

Please tell your Dad...that to him....I'll sell my boat....I'll even throw in a few lesons so he can sinlgle hand her..... man will he piss you off....  

I'll include a free 2 weeks stay at my house...

Think positive...when they start getting old, and they start to do the "nothing" fights...think how good he will feel with 2 wheels!!!

Easy acess transom...wonderfull for Med moorings.










Side doors with low freeboard...










Rides "the wave"....










Brand new BOOM, (on order) and boom monkey can be included for a small fee... (we can get 2 or 3)










Spacious deck and EXTRA LARGE cockpit










Classy interior...3 cabins, 2 heads fully equiped galley










And guaranteed to take him wherever he goes pretty fast... 

WWII airplane fighting helmet provided, with anti mosquito gogles!!!

ihihihihh


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Beautiful ride Giu . . . but you've heard that before. 

How much $$$$$ in US dollars? I suspect it may be just a little over CD's parent's budget of 150k.

If I was to move into another Nauticat, The NC385 has a nice layout:


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TB-

I don't think there are any NC385's on the used market yet... not in the US anyways... and new, they're a bit out of the budget range...  Nauticats don't seem to come on the market very often, which speaks very well for the boats as a whole.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Yea, I know SD, but I can still dream can't I ? Even if it will always be just that.


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## SailinJay (Dec 6, 2002)

CD--

I'm getting into this thread a bit late. I didn't even look at e-mail yesterday as I was down on the boat cleaning it thoroughly after launching a week ago. 

I have a 2003 C-350, which I bought new (I previously posted on that in another thread). The only bow to convenience and age that I made when I bought my 350 was an electric winch, mounted on the cabin top on the starboard side, for raising the main. I was not going to get it, but my wife insisted.

I will be 60 in August. I do not consider myself old at all. I do as much work as I can on my boat. This year, on the hard, I sanded and cleaned the hull, and applied two coats of paint. Then I washed and waxed the topsides. I always reinstall the sails myself (without benefit of the winch) each year.

I think the 350 is a good boat. They are approaching Hull No. 500 after introducing the model in January 2002. There are a number of used boats available, including two in Texas. One is a 2004 at Lake Texoma with an asking price of $157,500, and the other is a 2003 in Denison, TX, with an asking price of $129,000. There are currently five boats for sale in Florida.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Yea, I know SD, but I can still dream can't I ? Even if it will always be just that.


Permission granted.. dream away...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

All,

Thank you.

First of all on the 350, I know that has been where he has been leaning. With my knowledge of Catalina (and bias) it is not suprising. However, there are obviously other boats I do not have as depth of knowledge about. That was why I wanted to post that here. I know many of you have personal preferences, one way or another, which makes for good information on an educated purchase.

I will give you mine, dad's, Kris' (my wife), and mom's thoughts a best as I can on each boat:

*Catalina 350*: Pops has been talking to everyone he can about the 350. I have heard many positive reviews. Many people are using them beyond what might have been considered their "design point", including Bermuda and many out islands. The negatives are its ability to point and some refrigeration issues. I can help him with the latter, but its inability to point close is just a factor of the design. I am personally concerned about the price of these boats compared to other boats on the market (used). I like Catalinas and am a Catalina fan... but these boats are not cheap. On the positive side I know how Catalinas "work" and will be a hell of a resource for him. On the negative side, I feel he will take a hit on the boat when he goes to sale... unless the New boat market continues to climb out of control as it has the last few years. Used boats, especially some of the older vintages, are VERY undervalued right now. As has been discussed before, that seems to be changing and the Used boat market it picking up quickly. How can it not?

*Hallberg-Rassy*: As I have said before, this is one of the best made boats I have been on. Kris liked it better than the Hylas 54 (HR we saw was a 48), I liked the Hylas better... but point is that it is a well made, true, solid boat that will maintain its value for years to come. However, it is small down below. The 34 is a tiller (a no-go). It has a slant-back transom versus platform... and I think that is a tough pill to get down (on/off the boat & dink, swimming, etc). I have not been on a 34, but the pictures of the V look tight. I am trying to imagine mom and pops crawling over each other in the middle of the night to get out of that. Not to mention, you take 2 dogs, 2 g-kids, and 4 adults on that boat... and you will be sitting in each others laps. The HR is an awesome boat and a great reccomendation, but the reality of it is that it is too small and uncomfortable for their intended use. Once you jump in the 40's, those boats are quite nice... but you ain't getting into that for 150k... especailly at todays exchange rate!!

*Moodys*: I think the Moodys are awesome, well-made boats. I have been on them but never sailed them/cruised them. They have a fine following and for good reason. However, many of the Moodys are pretty high priced/foot. This is a liveaboard boat and pops is approaching 60. He will need space to move around and settle in. If we could find one in that $ range, I would push him for it. I wonder though if most of the Moodys that would have equal space will be in that $ range. And if so, why? Some of the ones I saw on Yachtworld loked like they were rode hard and put up wet.

*Caliber*: I think the Caliber is one of the most undervalued boats on the market. It was one of those boats I went on with low expectations and was pleasantly suprised with. They do not seem to spend a bunch on advertising, instead leaning on word of mouth. If I am not mistaken, weren't the old Gulfstars built at that facility before the Calibers? I do not know that Caliber has the same build quality as a Moody, but built better than many boats. My concerns for this boat are the transom (not a platform transom), making on/off tender more difficult, the Nav station (I thought it was awkwardly placed and small for a boat of that caliber... no pun intended), and the pullman berths. I know many people prefer a pullman, but as the "older" people have to get up several times a night to check the... water, one person will always be crawling over the other. I question a pullman's practicality as a live aboard/cruiser.

*Nauticat *- I wonder if this boat will not get ruled out simply due to its availability in the US. Looks like a nice boat, but I know little about them and have never been on one.

*Gulfstar *(gulp)- I actually like those old boats. I have been on several. I doubt they sail very well. I doubt they motor very well. However, the space and comfort aboard is better than any of the other boats mentioned. Tom Neale raised his family on one, and the value of a good Gulfstar has pretty much leveled out. Dad's concern, rightfully so, is the age of these boats will force him into a lot of repairs and maintenance. Every boat is maintenance, but this old of a boat will be more so. To throw someone that has not spent a lot of time on a boat as a liveaboard/cruiser is a steep learning curve. TO throw them on a boat AND a crash course on repairs and systems is a whole lot more. He has also shown some concern over the cost of operation (having to run the diesel to get from A-B) as the boat will be no fun under 15+ kts. I told him that I dissagree that it will not be that high of a cost in diesel, but he is right... it won't sail well.

All boats are trade-offs, aren't they? I know I have been the Sailnet designated Catalina Man, but I appreciate and like many other boats too. All the reccomendations have been good and I apprecaite everyones time and effort. Thanks again...

- CD

PS Giu, you already thinking about selling your boat!?? Wow. Well, since you are back in the market for a boat, let me make a suggestion: Dufour 38. It has won many races, needs very little modification, and between you and me, I know a guy that knows a guy that said it is a....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CD-

You're welcome, and keep us posted on what CD Sr. decides to do...


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Giu, you already thinking about selling your boat!?? Wow. Well, since you are back in the market for a boat, let me make a suggestion: Dufour 38. It has won many races, needs very little modification, and between you and me, I know a guy that knows a guy that said it is a....


nope...I said..I would sell it to your Dad, and him alone....

Why you may ask???

I forsee a long long long time to decide what boat he wants...to end up buying a Catalina in the end...you're there, talking to him...enough said   Its denail...where I come from...but Oprah calls it "empowerment" 

So my boat will safely being mine for many many years..in fact its not mine....I'm just holding it for my kids...they will sell her if they want...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

So, Giu, does that mean you will not be buyng the Dufour 38??


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> before making any suggestions, how fit are your parents?? And how much experience sailing do they have??
> 
> The reason I ask is handling a larger sailboat is still fairly demanding physically, and even if you're part of a couple, you're often effectively single-handing the boat. But you already know this.


Yes, very good point. If they are fit, but would rather island hop than liveaboard, they could get a smaller bigger boat (35-38 feet) that was a good sailer but was easier to handle and had more amenities. Forget visitors or extra bunks...if you visit each other, you can just raft up!

I'll read to the end of the thread now...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Cd....not HR but also very good
> 
> YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


That Moody 38 center cockpit would hit the sweet spot for a fit couple in their 60s, I would think. Roomy, but not dangerously so, and with tons of visibility and ease of access you get with a CC.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

CD - are they planning on doing any cruising without you? Like a few years down the road when they have more experience? If so, I would think an ICW friendly boat would be another consideration. (draft, mast height)

Also, at the risk of inciting mayhem, the Hunter 36 (latest version) should perhaps be considered. Main reason being, with a fractional rig, you aren't fighting a big genny.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Looking said:


> Knowing my weakness for the 'China Clippers'... I have been looking at this one. Too much boat? Are they going to live aboard?
> 
> YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
> 
> ...


Wow...that's a beauty! There must be a fatal flaw somewhere, though, because that's far too little for that much boat...hurricane damage? A hard grounding? Engine flooded and near death?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PB,

My guess is that if anything, they will quit before we will. Just my guess... but who knows, they make go where wh haven't. Their experience is so small it is hard to tell. I think they are looking into a few years? 

As far as ICW, it all depends. There are few boats with the space of, say, a 350 that will work on the ICW of SW Fl, but most will work elsewhere. Did that make sense??? 

- CD


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

CD - certainly makes as much sense as anything else you say 

Given what you've said throughout, and that they are leaning to a 350 anyway, seems that is the way to go, IMHO. There's some great boats that have been mentioned, but in a way, I think they are more suited to someone who knows they want to be out there for quite a while. With the 350, I think it would be sufficent for what you've indicated. It would also be a boat they could keep on a lake here in Texas, should they decide on it as a "summer cottage".


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## belliegirl2 (Sep 9, 2004)

*how about waiquez*

Either a pretorian or a hood 38

Look like the perfect sailing boat. 
Easy to handle. Within budget, handle any weather.

Nice looking as well


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I told you...this is ending exactly where i said it would....

a lot of posts, a lot of boats thrown around....and they will end up buying exactly what they had in mind in the first post...a catalina....(or Cd had in mind)....<G>


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Big surprise... that CD Sr. has been brainwashed by the Cult of Catalina...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta,

I was just lurking around reading and saw the pics you posted. What kind of boat is that - she is a beauty?


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Oh man, here we go. 
You had to ask didn't you Sailh. Now we'll never get him to stop. 
Wait , I'm sure more pictures are coming you're way. LOL
Not to worry G, I never get tired of seeing pictures of your boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Also, if you are talking production boats, then what about the others?

Hunter 36 actually kind of nice and actually sail pretty darn well
Beneteau 361 or 381 (or the newer versions of those)
Delphia 37 (seems to be good value)
Hanse 371 (although exchange rate probably hurts)

If they want something more sturdy, what about Pacific Seacraft 34 about 10 years old? I would probably buy the Caliber 35 over that though because of cost.

If it were me, for grandparents, I would look at the Gemini 105. You can have one almost new with that budget and seem to be good value, easy stable platform, lots of room, etc.

I am sure with those suggestions I have opened some kind of hornets nest...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Sailh,

If I am not mistraken, Giu's boat is a Dufour 38 with some modifications (right Giu)?? But between you and me, it does not go to weather, is boom-boomed, and attracts the strangest looking fish you ever heard of. Not to mention, it was beaten by a Catalina 400 in a race recently (look back at the pics).

As far as your suggestions on other boats, I know most of those boats pretty well and appreciate the input.

PBeezer,

It is not my decision on the boat. He really likes the 350, and it has been written up well. *I am the one pushing for him to look at other boats*, not the other way around. No doubt that will suprise many people here. However, that is what we did!!! We settled on the 400 because it was the best boat for us (well, somewhat), but we did look around for a while at many other options. I just want to make sure he does the same thing.

Giu,

Think Formossa... think suns sets... slow down... cold drink in the islands... Jimmy Buffet singing (in Portugese, of course)... deep breath...

You will come around!!!

- CD


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailh34 said:


> Giulietta,
> 
> I was just lurking around reading and saw the pics you posted. What kind of boat is that - she is a beauty?


Ahhh.... I see a man with great taste here, a rare thing today...indeed.... 

Please ignore sailortkj...he's from a cold part of the US...has "frozenus testiculos" disease....

That boat is the new *European designed Catalina 42 Super Fast *(a prototype hidden from the US while on tests) built by Benetau with jeanneau materials and Dufour 38 "unmodified" parts....  

The new secret weapon of the US... still in tests...see here...link.

Available to the US market soon...

You can also go to my blog (thanks Cam) and read about her...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I did suggest a multihull, and we know that CD secretly wants one.... so if his father got one, he'd have one to play with... i even posted a link to some that are in the price range he's looking at.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SD,

I OWN MULTIHULLS... My sailboat, the dink, a couple of floats... that is 4 right there... or is that what you meant?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is the answer right here - Freshwater boat - as much room as your average 38 footer, beautifully built and faster than CD's Catalina...PLUS it is affordable and they hold their value.....
Perfect for light offshore work...seaworthy enough for anything, but I remember reading an account of a gentleman who had sailed long distances in the South Pacific, apparently had chafe issues with the sail...so I guess if Bora Bora is in the plan then you'd need to pack a spare sail...

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> SD,
> 
> I OWN MULTIHULLS... My sailboat, the dink, a couple of floats... that is 4 right there... or is that what you meant?


CD-

We know what you really want is one of these: LINK


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## GentleBreeze (Aug 17, 2006)

*Thanks for the insight*

Want to thank all including you too SD for all the personal thoughts on boats that might fit my needs.

I have much to learn, but have a good start with all your inputs. Many decisions have to be made in the next year, and some of them will be tough.

Leaving the big city life, (big house and all) will be a big change for both the wife and myself. I want to get it as right as possible the first time, and all of your comments help in that decision.

Please keep the comments flowing. And SD, thanks for getting it started!

GB


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

The Nonsuch 33 is *vast* below...you really have to see it to believe it. The catboat rig is conceivably easier to handle, too, as long as you have a really good reefing system and a tendency toward caution.

Good pick...and not an obvious one, but logical.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SD,

A gunboat??? No thanks.

Val,

I cannot get over the lines on a Nonsuch. Then again, I am not buying it...

- CD


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

CD- Not sure if you saw this one. Nice fresh water Tartan 3800. Home port is near my home.

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks T,

I saw a few different ones but have not looked closely. I do not think Dad has ever seen a Tartan. I will throw it out to him.

- CD


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Actually, the Gemini 105 might just be a good choice for them. We have a couple living on one here, along with two good sized dogs.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

CD- Might be worth a look. I was throwing it out not just because it is a Tartan (Makers of the greatest boats on the planet!! ), but also because of location. I would be happy to go have a look if your dad has any interest.

PB- Can we please not restart the 2 dogs on a boat issue again?????!!!! <g>


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

T - If I could buy new, I'd get a T 3400. Would have suggested it, but they are too new to find used, and almost impossible to get without a long wait.

As far as inciting the dogs, if there's a thread, it's always a possiblity


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

PB- You can get one now, but at a premium. 
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

(I actually like the 3700 a LOT more. Same layout but works better in the bigger space.)


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I thought I would revive "this old thread" and see whats up for the parents. So, Cd, what have you got planned for gentlebreeze?
Man, I gotta go to bed. I know I am up too late when the Aussies lights go green.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

BF,

Look at the IP versus Caliber thread, just below. Dad wrote that.

- CD


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## CatalinaFan (May 15, 2007)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ftid=0&ps=30&man=hylas&slim=quick&searchtype=


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## CatalinaFan (May 15, 2007)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...g%2Fcache%2Fboats_for_sale_qs.jsp&searchtype=


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## sailusvi (May 3, 2005)

looks like a very nice "one owner" boat. Those "one owners" are hard to find this old. 


****referring to the post above. I am not allowed to post a link until I have 10 posts


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

sailusvi, that's an antispam thing.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailusvi-

That prevents the one-post wonders from posting link spam...


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## sailusvi (May 3, 2005)

I better start postin' and stop readin'


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