# What's the Best Trailer Sailer Value?



## FlyingScot255

I sail on a 3 mile lake and a 35 mile lake in upstate NY. I'm selling my beloved vintage Flying Scot hull #255 for a new experience in overnight sailing. My priorities include: Under $6k, at least 6 knots, Swing or Shoal Keel, Trailer Sailer, Solo Rigging and Sailing, Used, but well kept, Minimal Maintenance. 

I'm considering the following 20-23'ers: Catalina, Precision, Starwind, Aquarius, Seaward, Rhodes, Sirius, Chrysler, Paceship, San Juan, Buccaneer, North American, or the lighter weight: Santana, Spindrift, Venture, US, Merit, Ensenada or Balboa, Freedom, Nimble, Compac. I'd consider the Kells 23 if I could find one -- only 200 built. 

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences that may help me make the right choice? (Please include any known common design flaws with any of the above.) Thanks for your help. -- Dean


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## pauljohnson1222

I have a Precision 23 on the Great Lakes. Great boat, fast, easy to rig, and made very well...


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## timebandit

I know I will take some heat for this but---
MacGregor 25 you might find for that price.
I'm into mine about $2,000.
Looked in storage yards and got it for 1500.

If I had my druthers I would opt for the 26S.
here is a vid.


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## kgs113

Hi Dean,
Good to see your post. I remember you from Whitney Point. I have the bright yellow Rebel. It will be on the market in the spring by the way. I'm currently working in Oneida and bought a Cal 25 on Oneida Lake last year. When the weather breaks I may be able to do some sniffing around the area up there. Drop me a line sometime. KGS one one three at Earthlink dot net.
Kevin


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## bljones

You can get a really good matilda 20 or 23 with trailer for under $6K if you shop north of the border. I have always liked the accomodations of the matilda over the smaller cats macgregors, etc.

Or how about a Tanzer? Good owner's group, good spares availability, good performance, good value.


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## eMKay

Precision 21, 23, Catalina 22, O'day 192 (mine's for sale O'day 222, O'day 23, these are my favorite modern trailerables, all easy to rig, all reasonably quick (have had my 192 to 7kts). 

I really like the Precisions as they are very well built, and STILL built so support is there, and they have foam cored decks so maintenance is easier. All the O'days I looked at were solidly built but suffer from some quality issues in the last year or so they were made (1989) mine is one of the last boats they made (wasn't even finished, was bought at bankruptcy auction) has several voids in the deck gelcoat, the hull seems fine though.


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## bljones

BTW, some good trailer sailer comparisons and reviews here:

1986 SBJ SAILBOAT SEA TRIALS, page 3


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## FlyingScot255

*Thanks*

Thanks for the input gang. I like the Precisions, but they may be a bit overpriced for my wallet. I've ruled out a Macgregor -- unless it's a 22' Venture. I'm undecided on how heavy or accommodating I want to go. If increased size and/or amenities means more challenges in single-handed rigging and sailing, then I think I'll opt for smaller. To eMKay: I hadn't heard of an O'day 192 until you posted your comment, but I would likely choose the foot longer 19'. To bljones: I found the Matilda interesting. Although, it would be rare to find one in really good shape, you had me reading all about it. To kgs113, I remember you and your Rebel on Whitney Point lake, and I will be in touch.


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## TSOJOURNER

_BTW, some good trailer sailer comparisons and reviews here:

1986 SBJ SAILBOAT SEA TRIALS, page 3_

Nice tip, the website itself is not very pretty but it's simple and it has some interesting stuff in there worth checking out.


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## N0NJY

I bought a 25' Venture for learning and training. We've yet to put it in the water, and it needed work, but we're going to be on some rather small lakes with it.

Not sure when you plan to get yours but I'll let you know how it sails when we get her in the water in April.


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## AlpineSailor

Check out the S2 6.9 It's a fast 22 footer, fractional rig, lead daggerboard keel (no banging), well built, easy to trailer, and will sail circles around most, if not all of the above mentioned boats. I sail an S2 6.7 which is an earlier, racier version of the same hull.


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## WouldaShoulda

Have you considered keeping the FS and parking it in the lot of a nice hotel while you "overnight??"


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## geraldartman

I had a Cat 22 for a 1st trailer boat. About $2K with trailer. Sailed it around the North Channel and home. What I liked was the user support. I knew literally nothing about sail being a power boater for years. The users had lots of info, upgrade ideas, parts locations etc. Lots of sailing advice, racing stuff etc. For any used boat, I think this is an important idea if you need lots of help.


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## bobmcgov

Finger Lakes? I learned to sail there, and it will have some bearing on your choice. For instance, of your listed boats I'd cross off the Bayliner/Buccs, the Balboa/E20, Chrysler, Nimbles,and the Compacs right off; summer winds in NY inland lakes are flukey and very light, and those boats will not move atall, atall. A quick, lively ride is choice: US, Sirius, San Juans, Catalinas, S2s, and Schock/Santanas hold down the lighter end.

Are you looking at overnights, or more extended camping? How many berths? Galley, or camp stove? How many people will you have in the cockpit? 

Next question: would you be thinking of occasional trips to the Great Lakes, Champlain, or the Eastern seaboard? Cuz then I'd probably cross off the Santanas and San Juans -- not keen in big square chop. The Sirius is outstanding, but getting one for under $6k is a big ask. Compacs would be fine. Precision and Merit excellent for either venue, but expensive and a bit overkill on a 3-mile lake!

Get a boat that points very well: beating up Seneca or Cayuga Lake (40 mi long, 1 mi wide) is hard work. OTOH, prevailing summer southerlies and the lakes' N-S direction means nice long spinnaker runs!

I hope to bring our SJ21 to the Finger Lakes some day -- it would be a marvelous sailing boat on those waters (with the genoa). But the interior verges on useless, the equal of a two-man tent. C22 is only 6" longer but massively bigger below.


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## CrazyRu

Skip Freedoms. I love them, however they are not light wind boats and they don't point well.


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## labatt

I'd also have to lean towards the Precisions. I used to have a Precision 23 and absolutely loved it - it handles great, performs and is comfortable. It's not as comfortable as a Hunter or Catalina of the same size, but I'd take its construction and handling any day. You can find some used at Precision Sailboats - For Sale


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## BRUCECUTCLIFFE

*Best Trailor-Sailor Value*

Dean: As another writer mentioned, the O'Day 23 would be an excellent choice and there should be a few around as the 23 was manufactered for about 8 years (between 1977 and 1985). I would stay away from the O'Day three digit models produced shortly before Lear Seigler shut down operations around 1988-89. The O'Day might be a Chevrolet of production boats however you do get a lot of boat for the money. Although you can trailor the O'Day 26, you would need a substantial truck and it would not be much fun!


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## DougMaass

*Boats to consider.*

I would consider a nice little catboat, such as a Compac or a Menger. They may not point quite as high as a sloop, but they come close. What the lose in pointing they make up for in ease of rigging, ease of handling, comfort, space, stability,and they fly off the wind.

If you don't mind a fixed keel, consider a J-22 (kinda Spartan below) or a Beneteau 235. They can still be trailered, but you need a steep ramp for launching and retrieving.

Doug Maass
Sleepy Hollow, NY


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## h2ojem

We have a Halman 20. Fixed keel, easy to single-hand, especially with the roller furling we installed. She is sturdy and so sweet!! You should be able to find one with trailer for under 6,000. J&J


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## ahld

*Flying Scot upgrade*

FS,
Another upstater and former Scot sailor here. We bought a Capri 22 and were very happy with it. After 10 years on Skaneateles we went to a 38 footer on Lake Ontario.

The Capri sails well, 2 guys can easily step the mast on the trailer. You can sleep on the boat and it has a great big cockpit. I'd suggest finding one with the race package and non-Catalina sails if you have a choice. Not as fast as a J-22 but a whole lot more comfortable inside. If you're planning to do a lot of overnights you might want to look at a pocket. Typically you give up performance for comfort with say a Precision, or Catalina 22.

Good luck!
Dave


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## frogman27

*6 knots?*

Just a couple thoughts, based on the standard calculation used, in order to get 6 knots you need at least 25 feet of waterline. Since length overall is usually longer than waterline you're probably looking at 27+/- feet to get that. There's only one trailerable I know of that's that long (the seaward 32rk), and it's way out of budget consideration. In the sizes you're talking about you get a boat with 4.5-5 knot abilities and you'll average 3.5 or so if you keep it lightly loaded. Pile on gear for a week, and you may not get that for an average. Remember the 5 knots is the theoretical hull speed. If your plan involves trips that require that speed to make them possible you might want to rethink. You won't get it from the boats you're talking about.

That said, a McGregor is probably not a bad choice, but you'll have a hunt to find one in your price range. If you can find one it adds the advantage of higher speeds under power so greatly increases your cruising range and the water ballast makes them really easy to tow.

I've sailed a Hunter 22 and liked it. It's simple, with a shallow draft, and might be a good choice for you. The accomodations are simple, but reasonable for one or two.

I wouldn't worry too much about a few feet of length. It won't make the difference in your ability to handle the boat, and in some ways a larger boat is a little easier to handle because it's more stable and you have more deck space to work on.

Anyway, good luck. I hope you find the right boat.


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## bljones

frogman27 said:


> There's only one trailerable I know of that's that long (the seaward 32rk), and it's way out of budget consideration.


There's also the Clipper Marine 32, billed as trailerable, (which it is), but not a boat that is quick and simple to rig once off the trailer. you're not going to be merrily sailing off into the sunset within minutes of arriving at the launch ramp.


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## sailstoo

*trailer sailer*

If you're looking for some performance and are willing to do some work trhere's a Harmony 22 on eBay with trailer that I'm sure can be picked up for the right pricde. Nice new sailbags also (don't know what's in 'em).


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## bobmcgov

frogman27 said:


> Just a couple thoughts, based on the standard calculation used, in order to get 6 knots you need at least 25 feet of waterline. Since length overall is usually longer than waterline you're probably looking at 27+/- feet to get that. There's only one trailerable I know of that's that long (the seaward 32rk), and it's way out of budget consideration. In the sizes you're talking about you get a boat with 4.5-5 knot abilities and you'll average 3.5 or so if you keep it lightly loaded.


Short threadjack: the theoretical hull speed calculations are pretty good yardsticks for large, pure displacement vessels. But smaller, lighter boats can and frequently do exceed hull speeds; think of them as semi-displacement hulls, or semi-planing hulls if you prefer. Here's an example: our SJ21 has a waterline length of only 17.5ft, yet it regularly pushes 7 kts on the GPS without surfing and on most points of sail. From a GPS log (and Garmin rounds down):

277	6/15/2008 11:27:06 AM 4703 ft 176 ft	0:00:19	5 kt	240° true	N42 31.635 W105 00.272
278	6/15/2008 11:27:25 AM 4711 ft 144 ft	0:00:15	6 kt	241° true	N42 31.620 W105 00.306
279	6/15/2008 11:27:40 AM 4720 ft 210 ft	0:00:22	6 kt	240° true	N42 31.609 W105 00.334
280	6/15/2008 11:28:02 AM 4727 ft 200 ft	0:00:21	6 kt	236° true	N42 31.592 W105 00.375
281	6/15/2008 11:28:23 AM 4735 ft 191 ft	0:00:19	6 kt	239° true	N42 31.573 W105 00.412
282	6/15/2008 11:28:42 AM 4744 ft 50 ft	0:00:05	6 kt	235° true	N42 31.557 W105 00.448
283	6/15/2008 11:28:47 AM 4747 ft 234 ft	0:00:24	6 kt	235° true	N42 31.552 W105 00.457
284	6/15/2008 11:29:11 AM 4755 ft 194 ft	0:00:20	6 kt	239° true	N42 31.530 W105 00.500
285	6/15/2008 11:29:31 AM 4761 ft 197 ft	0:00:21	6 kt	231° true	N42 31.514 W105 00.537
286	6/15/2008 11:29:52 AM 4764 ft 183 ft	0:00:20	5 kt	224° true	N42 31.493 W105 00.571
287	6/15/2008 11:30:12 AM 4764 ft 96 ft	0:00:16	4 kt	203° true	N42 31.472 W105 00.599
288	6/15/2008 11:30:28 AM 4764 ft 128 ft	0:00:17	4 kt	74° true	N42 31.457 W105 00.607
289	6/15/2008 11:30:45 AM 4768 ft 139 ft	0:00:16	5 kt	80° true	N42 31.463 W105 00.580
290	6/15/2008 11:31:01 AM 4766 ft 204 ft	0:00:20	6 kt	63° true	N42 31.467 W105 00.549
291	6/15/2008 11:31:21 AM 4766 ft 178 ft	0:00:18	6 kt	35° true	N42 31.482 W105 00.509

We fell below theoretical hull speed once, but that was a tack. That's why I endorse smaller, lighter boats on little inland lakes; they sail like dinghies, keeping the fun factor high while ownership costs stay low, and they are dead simple to plop in the next lake over when you get sick of this one. /threadjack


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## alecs123

If you're are ok with fin keels I may suggest a Merit 25. I own one and it's fairly trailerable (came from Corpus Christi to Valle de Bravo in Mexico, and from there to the Pacific coast -Vallarta and Acapulco). We take about one hour to rig again, the accomodations are good, nothing fancy but the V berth is as spacious as 30 footers. 6 Knots? of course! we make 6-7 regularly on our little lake, on the ocean we made 12 on a run downwind. Within your budget, the problem I think is to find one up there in northeast.


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## BobJames

*Catalina 22 - the best choice*

Find a mid 80s Catalina 22. Parts and support easily available. Boat handles heavy air and light air, roomy cockpit - that's where you spend most of your time. Get one with a pop-top and the cabin is OK for a week's cruise. You can't go wrong with a Catalina 22.


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## JimMcGee

*Catalina 22 - great cruiser in this size range*

My first boat was a Catalina 22 and I like it so much I kept it when I got my 30.

There are lots of them around in your price range and the pop top would make overnighting easier, though I day sail mine. The majority are swing keels, but I prefer the shoal draft wing keel. It's not as desirable for racing but you eliminate the maintenance issues of the swinger and you'll never notice the difference when cruising.

Check out "Chip Ahoy" Homeport for just about any maintenance/upgrade question on the C22. You can often find a boat in your area by posting on Chip's email list. Also check out Catalina 22 Home Page.

One important thing is parts availability. Catalina still makes the 22 and Catalina Direct sells just about any part you'd need for the boat. Catalina Direct: Welcome to Catalina Direct Online

. Subscribe to Chips mailing list and you'll have a built in tech support site for any project. You can't put a price on that.

Jim McGee


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## lkuhn

The Rhodes19 is the Mariner19 and I think was the O'Day19 (for only a couple of years). Theoretical hull speed is less than 6 knots.

The Rhodes22 is an incredible boat but it is unlikely that you'll find a one in your price range. 

Its LWL is 20' which would give it a theoretical hull speed of 5.99 knots.

It's not the easiest boat to trailer, rig, and launch. It has 9 stays and when you raise the mast you are also raising 300 square feet of sail (uses a mast raising system). With motor and gear you'll be towing about 4,000 lbs. Its trailer has an extension tongue but can still be a problem at some ramps. Most people only trailer it in and out for the season or for an occasional vacation trip, as opposed to everytime they go sailing.

I don't want to discourage you from buying a Rhodes22. I looked at most of the boats on your list and bought the Rhodes. It's perfect for my needs but may not be for yours.

Good luck!


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## FlyingScot255

*Finally Bought the Right TS*

Well, I finally bought the trailer sailer that's right for me. Although, there were about 6 finalists, I went with the one that has a lot of popularity, support info and parts swap sites -- the Catalina 22. I found a good price on a well-kept 1979 C-22. Thanks for your help gang.


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## Jimsy

Careful. Malwarebytes says that SEA TRIALS page has Trojans.


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## mfourn20

I've got a Catalina 22. It's my first boat other than a dinghy. I like it for what it is. I keep it on a mooring though and wouldn't want to deal with stepping the mast every time I want to use it. Having the ability to trailer it for the off season is awesome though. I don't own a truck, just rent a uhaul pickup and tow it how. It sure takes a lot of cost out of storage, and makes working on the boat very easy since it's in the back yard vs at a boat yard.

Mine was tired when I bought it and I've dumped tons of money into it making it as like new (within reason) as I can for a 1985. I've rebuilt just about everything.

Some of the issues with mine were:

Keel was rusty/flakey but with no major issues. I dropped it, had it sandblasted, immeadiately epoxy coated it, faired it. It's been great ever since with no rust 3 seasons in, and on a mooring in salt water. I replaced all keel hanging/raising gear

I replaced the keel weldments

I had stress cracking in the hull at the keel weldments, I ground out the cracks, fiberglassed and it's been great since

Scuppers are undersized / clog easily

Ripped out the whole electrical system & replaced

new lifelines

new standing rigging


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## SHNOOL

Best trailer sailor value is an S2 7.9, outboard, daggerboard model, as long as there isn't any wet coring.

It sails well, its big(ish), and is built like a tank.

What did I win?


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