# Portable Generators



## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

What do people think of the portable ~1000Watt portable generators? Does anyone use them while cruising?

It looks like the 1000W generators from Honeywell are on sale for ~$350. I was debating buying one to perhaps use on a sailboat someday...

Are there any concerns with making up a short shore power cord that could plug into one of these little generators. Obviously just for small jobs -- power tool here or there etc.? Certainly not running an AC unit or anything like that.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Gasoline Generators*

Here are some points on my experience with small generators (owned Honda 1000 from 97 -2007 and have been enjoying Honda 2000 since)

- Run them completely out of gas before storing below - decks - you may have to do some plumbing modifications if some gasoline remains in tank that cannot be drained by opening carburetor bleed screw

-I am currently using a coiled-up shore power cord (standard plug) for plug in and because of large gauge wire and 2000 watt generator I seem to be doing okay...had a short combo cord on my last boat for the Honda 1000

-consider the Honda 2000, it isn't much bigger than the 1000 and runs for around 8 hours on economy - it is much more difficult to trip than the old 1000 (when initial battery charging done you can run vacuum etc without disconnecting loads) and one guy was running a 5000 btu ac off his last summer

-I don't know anything about the honeywell but several boaters I know like the Honda - after owning different sets from yamaha, coleman etc,
the big thing I keep hearing is noise, we also thought paying a little more for a quality generator might make sense since we would primarily be using it in a marine environment (have heard that some bargain sets go bad after corrosion issues)

Good Luck,
Mark


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## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

Good points. What would you be running that would trip the 1000W?

Maybe this is a stupid question. Do you always keep your gasoline stored on deck?


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

Can you use a portable generator to charge your batteries via the shore power cable? Or just to power on board eletronics?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

One should be able to take a smaller genset and charge the batteries via the onshore cable. What you may find tho, is that smaller gensets like the Honda 1000W versions, is they only have a typical 3 plug 15W plug, and shore plugs are the 3 or 4 prong twist style. So some time of adapter will need to be done. If you get bigger gensets, ie 2000 wt or bigger, many times these will have the same plugs that one's std house cord would use. Along with, my cord is some 50' long, even if a portable had the proper plugs on it, I would probably make or buy a 10-20' long cord to use while the gen was running in the cockpit by the plug. In my case, a 10' cord would be plenty!

Just remember, a smaller genset ie a 1000W one, will not charge as fast as a larger one to a degree. This does depend upon your AC/DC charger in the boat. If that only charges at 800W, then your fine with a 1000W genset. if the onboard charger can do more, then a lower genset will take longer than a bigger genset.

Also, before buying a genset, figure out what you want to power. If a micro, you better have at least 2000W, an AC, figure a 3000W unit, some AC's can function with a 2000W, may can not. If you want to use a micro, wife's hair dryer and a drill, a 1000 will NOT work, and quite possile a 2000 may not either!

Marty

Marty


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## KindOfBlue (Nov 22, 2005)

My 3 stage charger would trip the 1000 watt generator, but my 2000 watt generator does fine. 

The carbon monoxide scares the crap out of me, so I use it as little as possible.


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

mbradl said:


> and one guy was running a 5000 btu ac off his last summer
> 
> Good Luck,
> Mark


Since it appears that some ACs won't run on the 2000, which is the one I plan to get, do you know which 5000 btu unit the guy was using?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

therapy23 said:


> Since it appears that some ACs won't run on the 2000, which is the one I plan to get, do you know which 5000 btu unit the guy was using?


What you want to do, if at this time you do NOT have an AC unit, is find out how much start up watts it needs, along with the how many watts it needs to run. The start up watts is usually what kills a gen set/ AC combo. The AC may run on say 1800 watts, but it needs 2200 to start the thing up, which kills the genset. Or in your case, do not buy a 2000 wt unit, get a 2500 or higher unit since you have neither at this time.

Then also look at watts needed, if you want to charge the batteries WITH the AC on, then you would need using my above figures. the 2200 to start the ac, or get the AC going at 1800, then hook up the charger that may need say 1200. Now you need a 3000wt genset.

It is pretty simple in some senses to figure out how big a genset you need, others, you get screwed up by forgetting things like start up watts, and only look at running watts!

Hence when I bought a genset for my RV trailer back in 92, I bought a 3500 wt version. I could, and still do run most of my house when it was not in use with the RV. It is WAY to big to put on my boat, but, things to think about none the less.

marty


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Gensets & AC*

Marty makes some good points, the guy I saw last summer was using a 5000 BTU window unit hung in his companionway (I think he bought it from a brandsmart). I have heard the 2000 will not do a 6000 BTU unit and you might consider checking around to places that sell both Honda generators and AC units (Shell lumber in Miami) for advice from folks who have customers using the units for a week or two after a hurricane. Honda makes a harness where you can connect 2 generators together to double the rating. If you are thinking of doing a full - on Marine installation for your AC, I know Dometic has some low -draw staged start -up units that can run on smaller generators.

I have a diesel auxillary engine below deck on a sailboat and I keep my gasoline for the outboard and generator on deck - safest practice as gasoline vapors are heavier than air and can settle into a bilge forming a potentially explosive situation. Things may be different on boats powered with a main gasoline engine(s) where a good deal of ventilation (big blowers etc) are built into their design.

As far as 1000w to 2000w comparisons go I think the footprint for the 2000 is roughly the same as the 1000 with just a few additional inches and pounds for weight. These things sip gasoline so if you don't mind the expense of a few more ounces a day and another $200 for purchasing then get the 2000 - we full-time cruise and it is soooo nice to charge batteries / make ice / surf internet or watch TV without worrying about "tripping" a small generator. We loved our old Honda 1000 (there wasn't a "suitcase 2000 when we bought the 1000), but I don't understand how they are still able to sell them after the 2000 has come out. If the space you are planning to keep the generator is so tight that you have to go 1000 then get it and plan plan plan your power management otherwise live fat - be happy.....given the choice between a free 1000 and a retail cost 2000 I will take the 2000 every time.

Cheers,
Mark


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## peikenberry (Apr 26, 2000)

Frankly I have always recommended against using a portable genset on a boat. Rather than write an essay here, here is the link to an article I wrote on this. Portable Generators Pro and Con.


> Let me say right up front, that I do not and have not ever recommended using portable generators on boats. I personally believe it is not wise to do so. I think the safety issues outweigh the convenience. However, people are doing it. I have talked to
> knowledgeable boat owners and marine professionals who think it is safe to use them. There are two sides to the issue. Hopefully the following information will help you decide for yourself.​


 http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf


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## KindOfBlue (Nov 22, 2005)

peikenberry said:


> Keep the cord out of the water. Do
> not touch the generator or cords if you are wet, have wet hands, have bare feet, or if the
> equipment is wet. Never handle live electric cords or equipment with bare feet.http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf


I guess running my generator in the dinghy (floating about 20 feet downwind) when I am on my mooring isn't a good idea.


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## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

As always, I'm amazed by the wealth of knowledge here on sailnet. Thanks for all the replies. I definitely learned a lot.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Generator Noise*

It really depends on what type of cruising you are going to do. Most people swinging on the hook find the noise from generators very distasteful. A lot of cruisers even have issues with noisy wind generators. Personally, one of the main draws to sailing over owning a power boat is the peace and serenity one gets from sailing.

If you need a generator to power your air conditioner, or TV, or microwave, or ..., why not stay home and enjoy all of the comforts. An alternative would be to use a quiet wind generator or solar panels.

Of course generators can have their uses on board for temporary chores, but please don't spoil the serenity of my peaceful sunsets. That's why I cruise.


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## sahara (Dec 15, 2006)

I just love someone who anchors or moors upwind from me, sticks a portable generator on their stern scoop, fires the noisy, stinky thing up while we're having a glass of wine in the cockpit, and jumps in their dinghy to go ashore for dinner, leaving that sucker running. 

Running a portable genset on deck in the evening is exactly the same as running around on a jetski all night.

That said, I never venture south of Long Island Sound, and rarely south of Maine, so may have different sensibilities. If you're in Florida, maybe everybody does it and it's considered OK. To me, running the engine or genset after 5:00PM to charge batteries is very poor manners. No kidding.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

sahara said:


> I just love someone who anchors or moors upwind from me, sticks a portable generator on their stern scoop, fires the noisy, stinky thing up while we're having a glass of wine in the cockpit, and jumps in their dinghy to go ashore for dinner, leaving that sucker running.
> 
> Running a portable genset on deck in the evening is exactly the same as running around on a jetski all night.
> 
> That said, I never venture south of Long Island Sound, and rarely south of Maine, so may have different sensibilities. If you're in Florida, maybe everybody does it and it's considered OK. To me, running the engine or genset after 5:00PM to charge batteries is very poor manners. No kidding.


Agreed!
In Newport two summers ago, two powerboats on nearby moorings did exactly that. They both put them up on their forward deck, started them, and then left the boat.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

here is one for ya, fells point maryland, very near to me. has dock, as in the old transport ship day type that is free to tie to. its a semi tourist area, with bars and places to eat. 

so i go to fells point to tie up for the weekend, and what pulls in, a house boat, you know the boxes on a hull. they tie and for the whole weekend they have their genny running, the whole weekend 2 am and all. the sad part is they keep the boat less than a mile away, why come over


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I like my Honda 1000 watt.

I do use mine on the boat so long as there is a little breeze, enough to keep the boat pointed into the wind. I put the generator on the very back of the boat with the exhaust pointed aft so that any air movement just carries the exhaust off the back of the boat and away without any threat of getting it in the cabin. I also close the cabin door when running the generator, and I only run it when I am doing something, I never go to sleep while the generator is running, for example. Usually when I am running the generator I am also using power to do something anyway.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> What you want to do, if at this time you do NOT have an AC unit, is find out how much start up watts it needs, along with the how many watts it needs to run. The start up watts is usually what kills a gen set/ AC combo. The AC may run on say 1800 watts, but it needs 2200 to start the thing up, which kills the genset. Or in your case, do not buy a 2000 wt unit, get a 2500 or higher unit since you have neither at this time.


This is correct. My 12,000 BTU Marine Air heat pump/AC, along with the 115 VAC "March pump" that circulates sea water through it, eats 17-18 amps at "kickoff", which is pushing my Honda 2000 to the limit...i.e. it may not work. I have yet to actually try this in real life, but knowing that it's an issue will save time and experimentation.

But another aspect to the Hondas that is less well known to me is whether or not the ability to "gang" them together via what? some sort of thick Y-connector? will yield twice the amperage (equivalent to a 4,000 w output).

This is enough to run a 16,000 BTU unit plus a power tool, as far as I can tell, but I don't know if anyone's tried it.

On a certain level, it makes more sense to have _two _identical 42 pound, 2000 watt portable gensets and a "combiner cord" going into your 30 A shore power receptacle than it does to have a single, 80-100 pound 3000W genset.

One factor is maintenance, another is that they are each others' backup for everything but kicking off the AC, and a third is that most battery chargers will accept their full output, meaning you can supply most battery banks with a much reduced run-time. Fourth, you could run power tools on deck AND vacuum the boat without drawing on the inverter simply by using them as 13 amp AC power supply at anchor.

Lastly, lugging and stowing two Honda EU2000s is going to be easier than lugging and stowing a single, larger genset.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

peikenberry said:


> Frankly I have always recommended against using a portable genset on a boat. Rather than write an essay here, here is the link to an article I wrote on this. Portable Generators Pro and Con.  http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf


I understand the issues entirely, having owned and operated an Atomic 4 safely for 10 years (motoring downwind, the blower is your friend!), but if you accept that wind direction, operating on deck, proper ventilation, closing off the cabin when in use, storage, CO detectors and so on are key, then I think the pros outweigh the cons. EDIT: Having read the paper, I have to comment that yes, some of those scenarios are pretty scary. My use would be on a steel deck (on a pad that was fireproof, electrically insulating and sonically deadening) and fully ventilated to the open air in calm or near-calm conditions, and with proper measures taken to close off that end of the boat from fumes.

GPS has led to many a fatal error in judgement due to improper use, lack of updating paper charts and plain failure to look out the bloody window, but it is still worth it.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Lastly, lugging and stowing two Honda EU2000s is going to be easier than lugging and stowing a single, larger genset.


And one acts as a spare for the second - you just reminded me of one of the reasons why I bought the 1000 watt instead of the 2000 watt, because 2x 1000 watt generators works the same way, you can gang them.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sahara said:


> To me, running the engine or genset after 5:00PM to charge batteries is very poor manners. No kidding.


I would no more do this nor leave the boat with, say, a running propane barbeque. This is the place where poor etiquette intersects poor safety awareness. I don't even let an outboard run at dock if I'm tied up and dash into the club for a pee!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Val,

Putting 2 2000W gensets together is "VERY COMMON" in the land yacht RV area of life. many do this because as mentioned, you have a spare per say, along with you can run one when you are doing lite things, and run two when you need to run the AC, battery charger, hair dryer etc. Along with typically, a 2-2000W units are less weight than say my Honda EB3500 at 125-135 lbs. BUT, even if mine went south today, for how and where I use my genset, I would replace it with a EB3500, OR since I see Honda has inverter units in the 3-4000w range with the handles and wheels to cart them around like mine, I would look at one of those. Being as mine usually is setup on a contruction site for when I need power and it is not availible, or running the house. For my boat, I would look at a 1000 or a 2000E EU series personally. I would figure that out based on my battery charger, as that is my biggest power user, other than spouses hair dryer etc. Even that is not needed on the boat, as we do not have a shower! So she can use the HD in the marina's womens room!

If you need more info on how to hook up 2 Honda's, I know a couple that do that, and can get the info, but reality is, ANY Honda dealer should be able to set you up with a snap of there fingers.

Good luck on what you choose.
Marty


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## peikenberry (Apr 26, 2000)

Valiente;

What you said is why, in what I wrote, I left it pretty much up to the individual to decide. I admire your fortitude in surviving with an Atomic 4. That engine is an amazing survivor. There are about 20,000 still in service out of the more than 40,000 made around 30 years ago. As you said though, you have to know it's limitations. I have investigated a few fires on boats that had Atomic 4's. It was almost always due to lack of service or substituing auto parts for marine.

I have written to ABYC about the portable generator issue. What I asked for is simply a statement in the manuals about the dangers involved in using them in a marine environment and precautions that should be taken. I'll probably never see it though. The industry is rather reluctant to include that. 

The issue is one of education and prudence. If you want to see why just set yourself up a google or yahoo news alert on carbon monoxide. Every day several people die from CO poisoning and a significant portion is from using portable gnerators improperly.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks, Marty. I have one EU2000 already with which I'm quite pleased; what I did not immediately consider is that I would want a second one to solve the very few onboard problems the first one didn't cover!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

peikenberry said:


> Valiente;
> 
> What you said is why, in what I wrote, I left it pretty much up to the individual to decide. I admire your fortitude in surviving with an Atomic 4. That engine is an amazing survivor. There are about 20,000 still in service out of the more than 40,000 made around 30 years ago. As you said though, you have to know it's limitations. I have investigated a few fires on boats that had Atomic 4's. It was almost always due to lack of service or substituing auto parts for marine


I replaced the entirety of the fuel, vent and exhaust system in 2005, including going to a Vetus waterlock instead of the stupid and rusty Onan waterlift, and she runs very well. Gas doesn't bother me, because I respect it and I sniff the "carb side" and give the engine a wipe on occasion. I also have a fuel line shutoff I can work with a boat hook if I was ever facing a burning block.

The beauty of the Atomic 4, besides its mechanical simplicity and reliability, is that a low-compression gas engine is by its very nature a better choice for the typical recreational sailor in my view. I have run the engine 18 hours since 2006 (although I ran it about 40 in 2005 when we cruised her after a rebuild). Lawnmowers get more hours. Consequently, if you're going to run a cold engine for 15 minutes until you've got the main up, you want an engine that will run to 165-175F in that quarter-hour, so that oil runs freely, rings seat, and every part gets lubed. Do that with a diesel, and you prematurely age it and foul or wear various components.

With my 52 HP Westerbeke in my bigger boat, I motorsail at 1,500 RPM just to get the engine thoroughly warm, because I like to think I know what diesels prefer (start them, run them to a typical RPM, and let them run for hours until they get hot and happy).

Just to avoid a derail, while I would be interested in some future 45 lbs. 2000 W _diesel _genset, which would simplify the fuels carried and the economy of diesel, fire safety, etc., I would face the same problem: even a diesel genset won't like being turned on and off several times a day as one moves around the boat's deck, say. So gas gensets, used carefully, have that attribute that diesel, typically, do not.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Valiente said:


> With my 52 HP Westerbeke in my bigger boat, I motorsail at 1,500 RPM just to get the engine thoroughly warm, because I like to think I know what diesels prefer (start them, run them to a typical RPM, and let them run for hours until they get hot and happy).


I never understood this argument that running a diesel for short periods of time wears it out prematurely. To run an engine a long amount of time it first has to run a short amount of time, right ? So what does it matter if you just cut it off early instead of continuing to let it run and get warm and happy ?

SHORT TIME = wear
SHORT TIME + MORE TIME = long time, less wear ??????


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

We've had some informative discussions about this same topic in the past. Here are a few threads that I quickly dug up:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/37720-honda-portable-gen-set-question-3.html

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/38841-portable-generator-vs-genset.html

I haven't read PEikenberry's article, but we are of the same mind on this subject. In one or both of the threads above I cited the relevant USCG and ABYC guidance that strongly recommend against the use of portable gasoline gensets aboard recreational vessels.

Be careful!


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## peikenberry (Apr 26, 2000)

The recommedation for not running diesels for short periods is because when cold, diesels produce a lot of soot and acids that accumulate in the lubricants. When they are allow to get up to normal temps they burn those off and produce far less soot. Over a short life, that is a few years, it really makes no difference. But over the long run (no pun intended) of many years, it can shorten the time between rebuilds. But diesels are generally so much more reliable and need so much less mantenance than a gas engine that it really doesn't make a lot of difference. 

Actually a diesel is happiest running without ever stopping, just keep feeding it fuel and lubricant. Some of the diesel engines that power aids to navigation for the USCG have been running almost continuously for ten or more years. I have heard anecdotal claims of 20 years for diesels in the artic that power oil company equipment.

John, thanks for your support.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Peikenberry answered this perfectly, Wind Magic. I would only add that diesels burn hotter and under greater compression pressures than little gas engines like the Atomic 4 (ideal cylinder pressure of 95-115 PSI, if I remember correctly). They also tend to be heavier built, CC for CC. A short run will not heat the block equally entirely throughout the block, and as it's been explained to me, uneven heating can lead not only to the contamination issue mentioned above, but to microscopic fracturing of the metals due to uneven expansion and contraction. A diesel brought slowly to operating temperature and then kept there could indeed be expected to run for years. 

Sailboat auxiliaries are kept off 95% of the time, run briefly, and then sit in a cold bilge again for a week. From what I know of the thermodynamics involved (a diesel is after all, a sort of elaborate kettle or a bolted together bomb), the way in which we typically run our auxiliaries is not ideal. I run my Atomic 4 for a couple of minutes before departure, mainly to confirm I haven't got spider goop in the vent (it will slow and stall as the weak fuel pump is overwhelmed by the vacuum in the tank). My diesel goes on for 15 minutes before I leave, and I try to avoid sudden throttle changes until I read a nice warm block temperature. Racers, on the other hand, are always late for the start line, and fire up their diesels as the last crew jumps on and then belt out to the course at seven knots for 10 minutes, and then shut off the engine. 150 minutes later, they repeat the exercise and then park the boat for six days in a basin with 10C water.

Which sounds better?


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## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

Back on the topic of generators, does anyone know anything about some of the off brand "suitcase" gensets?

Sounds like there are a lot of the Hondas out there. But I have also come across a few that a significantly less in price. Such as:
All Power America Portable Generator &#151; 2000 Surge Watts, 1650 Rated Watts, Model# APG3010 | 1,000 - 4,999 Watts | Northern Tool + Equipment $330

The honda seem to go for around $750 used to >$1000 new.

The noise spec does appear to be worse. The one above is 68 dB. The honda is 53 to 59 dB. That's more than 3X quiter, which is fairly significant. Funny how the price is almost exactly proportional to the different in sound emission!


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

EpicAdventure said:


> Back on the topic of generators, does anyone know anything about some of the off brand "suitcase" gensets?
> 
> Sounds like there are a lot of the Hondas out there. But I have also come across a few that a significantly less in price. Such as:
> All Power America Portable Generator - 2000 Surge Watts, 1650 Rated Watts, Model# APG3010 | 1,000 - 4,999 Watts | Northern Tool + Equipment $330
> ...


I have been reading up on multiple forums for a number of years. I will probably be in the market for a small generator soon and it will be a Honda for sure.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

One thing to think about, re the off brands. I'm sure it is as true today, as it was in 92 when I bought my EB3500 Honda. Some of the charging electronics are not as good as what goes into the Honda's. If you put a Volt meter to the off brand, the Volts, altho it might be the Amps or watts, will vary below and above 12V by 2 maybe even 3 volts. Where as the Honda would not vary but by .1Volts, and one can run a computer with it, where as you can not with an offbrand. 

My dad used to work for a regional telephone company, and they Used Honda's or equal for critical electronics when the main power grid shut down, but on the trucks when they needed portable power for tools, they had off brands. 

My .02 on this. I will not say that Honda is the only genset with these tighter specs on the power output, I believe yamaha and some others are the same way, BUT it is worth trying to figure out what type of power you want.

marty


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

EpicAdventure said:


> The noise spec does appear to be worse. The one above is 68 dB. The honda is 53 to 59 dB. That's more than 3X quiter, which is fairly significant. Funny how the price is almost exactly proportional to the different in sound emission!


The Honda EU1000i is much more quiet than my larger off-brand generator, but then that isn't saying much, the bigger generator is a BEAST! I think the advertising for the EU1000i might be a little bit misleading to some people who don't have anything to compare to because it's not exactly a soothing sound, it isn't like a big cat purring or something, it's still an annoying generator!


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

6 yrs ago i swore i would never use a genny on my boat-----5 yrs ago i got a honda 1000eu----hated it--the song varied tooo much at idle--i traded it and some more money for a 2000eu honda and loved it until the thing stuck a valve --then i bought a briggs and stratton 3250--hate it---waaaaay tooo noisey----fixed the honda and now am thinking of saving allllllll my extra dollars for another one---they survive mistreatment and abuse and they are able to charge my boats' systems efficiently without the rabid noise problem---i always point into wind --unless current overtakes the wind speed---but the sound factor is such i can charge until late into night without bothering anyone else but myself--oh--i keep it on my cockpit on the lazarette-aimed astern---ran around in my dink to see how far it can be heard---honda--only as far as my own mooring lines----briggsy-----alllll the way to the other side of the moooring field!!!!! honda and yamaha and the big names are excellent---the off brands have made in china on them and last only 3 months-----honda rules!!!--ps--i have neither tv nor airconditioning---neither is needed on board a boat having flow - thru ventilation.....(my 2 cents)


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

I just bought a Honda EU2000i which I have not yet used and have a related question;

what do you use to connect it to the shore power inlet on the boat?

I was thinking of using one of my 25' shore power cords and one of these adapters;

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|49758|299260|319692&id=140049

Would that work? Any better methods?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

before my battery charger died on my formosa i connected it with my shore power cord and an adapter----worked fine--now i need to save for another charger .... lol ... i believe your combination will work--if it plugs into the machine and the boat , ya got it!!!!---ps--the combo didnt burn out the charger---it was an oooolllldddd one and got wet in the winter from a deck leak in my leaky teaky, go figger...lol.....should work for a long time on yours----


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