# Boat slip squatter



## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

Aloha all: I'm looking for a bit of advice after the tsunami that decimated Keehi and La Mariana on Oahu. After arriving @ La Mariana at my boat slip in the morning, I found my vessel intact and undamaged, albeit with six boats dogpiled against it. Guidance of one of the staffers was to throw lines and get clear once the next surge came through and cleared the boats out, which I did. Was able to get outside the channel, and then couldn't get back b/c the USCG shut down access. Found a temporary slip elsewhere, which I'll have to vacate Monday morning. 

Found out today that some random boat owner, whose A dock was destroyed, came into my slip, tied up, and left. I haven't spoken with him (although I stopped by today to try talk story with the guy); however, word from other people who were affected is that he's digging in his heels and will refuse to leave. 

Not wanting to be a dick w/o aloha and make the guy homeless, but he's potentially leaving me in a bind. I've paid up my rent through the month for the spot he's sitting in. Hoping to talk story and find a solution for him (tying off next to the boats @ the end of the pier, tying off to a mooring ball, etc.), but if the guy proves to be a choad, is there any legal recourse I can follow (e.g. contract with La Mariana has me assigned to the spot he's squatting in)? 

Advice = appreciated. Mahalo nui loa.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Speak with the dockmaster. In times of crisis, rules are hard to follow and triage will require the largest wrongs are fixed first. This is probably not going to be very high on the list, until the dogpile is dealt with. As I think about it, you are probably better off elsewhere, if you're secure, until the mess is cleaned up.


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks Minnewaska. The problem is that come Monday, I'll have to move my boat away from the temporary slip at a different Marina (which is occupying a space reserved for a fishing vessel, who's scheduled to return). I'm secure for another 24 hours, and after that....

Everyone in that particular (La Mariana) community has come together to help their fellow mariner out (e.g. we helped bail out my neighbor's boat and patch a softball-sized hole from where it took a hit from a corner dock). However, witnesses say this fella came in full bore < 30 minutes after we left, rammed the dock, tied off, then took off. In terms of etiquette in a time of crisis, this isn't what I'd call neighborly.


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## haffiman37 (Jun 4, 2004)

Goes under 'natural disaster', you may just have to live with it. this video from your place?
Make too much noise and the marina will probably ask you to find another place to more in the future!
YouTube - 2011 Tsunami Hawaii - La Mariana Damage
If so you may not be the only one having to drop the hook for some time!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Is there an open mooring ball available while you work this out with the dockmaster?


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

I'd suggest the same tactic as your squatter. Find a slip in the marina that has your money and put your boat in it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As I think further about it, most marina contracts have clauses that call all bets off in the event of a natural disaster.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

Sue him for theft of services.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Flybyknight said:


> Sue him for theft of services.


Doubting that will work. The surge damage in the marina probably voided their right to the slip.

The best way to deal with this is to be cooperative and one of the guys that the dockmaster wants to help first.


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## ingasguns (Nov 30, 2010)

i tend to agree... let the other guy be the "dick"


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Is it possoble to haul the boat onto the hard? I would assume the balance of the contract would cover it. Or is the travel lift toast?


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

As a very minimum, I would go on record by stating the facts and then asking politely in writing what they suggest that you do. Too often verbal agreements and understandings are not what both parties understand days later and this way the marina can not deny knowing about the situation. I would also find the name of the boat owner who occupies your slip and go on record there also.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

its my understanding that a boater can tie up to any dock,private or public if his vessel is in imediate danger but isn't allowed to leave the boat,but cooler heads here have made some sage sugestions,so i won't tell you what i would do uhuhuh


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Go to the dockmaster and ask where he wants you to go. That's what he's there for. You're paid up, your slip is unavailable so it's the marina's problem. If their docks are destroyed, then they may be able to work something out like putting you temporarily rafted to someone else.

This will work itself out. Once things calm down, the marina may move your squatter. It's their right, but under no circumstances should you touch the other boat.

Pay your next month's rent early to secure your rights in the marina.

Compared with what happened further west, this is a minor problem, thank god.

Aloha.


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback all. My take is that I won't cabbage someone else's spot, putting them in the same position that I'm in. I spoke with one of the two Mariana owners yesterday, and she seemed eager to help...but could only offer a vacant slip that was too narrow, and wouldn't fit the boat.

Considering our dock was the only one unaffected and undamaged, does this still mean our contract is potentially null/void as the rest of the marina was affected? Also: I understand that with disasters such as this, "all bets are off"...however, given a similar scenario where one house is destroyed and the other one isn't in a disaster, you can't simply move into the undamaged house and claim it as yours....you can potentially take shelter in it if you're in danger, but it's not an automatic inheritance of the property deed once the danger has passed.

My approach will a.) query his intentions before responding. b.) be to offer to help relocate his boat, find a mooring ball, tie off with one of our neighbors, etc. c.) be kind, but be firm, in that I've paid for the undamaged slip and have a binding contract with me as the "renter". In the event that he takes a "finders keepers" approach, we'll have to either get the dockmaster to make the decision for us and/or rely on the long-timers @ the Marina to render assistance with resolving the situation.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

First and foremost, read your dockage contract carefully. There may not be a disaster clause, which would make the person sitting in your slip a trespasser. If this is the case, you can call the local police and have him evicted. As long as YOU pay the rent, and YOU are the legally contracted slip-holder, then YOU have the legal right to have that person evicted, arrested for trespassing, etc... I sincerely believe you have taken the easy approach to solving the matter, but if his boat is operable, and is not in any eminent danger, then he is required to vacate the premises of which you are the legal leaseholder.

A similar scenario would be if there was a bad storm in your neighborhood and someone's home is flooded, thereby causing them to evacuate. Lets assume that your home is situated on higher ground, well above the flood plain and unharmed. Now, if you were not home during the storm, and that family moved into your home, would they have squatters rights and not have to leave upon your return? Do you believe for a minute that you would have to abandon YOUR home because they happened to break in and decided to stick around because it's a nicer place? 

Good Luck,

Gary


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Seastrider- that sounds like the only viable plan to me, everyone needs to try and be as level headed as you are in a situation like that. Looks like the tight moorage situation in HI just got a lot worse. We kept our boat next door to you in Keehi when we bought her after having to move out of Ala Wai. La Mariana is a great restaurant, we ate there almost every night. Good luck to you.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

At the very least, the marina should credit your account for the days that you cannot use your slip because they won't remove the offender.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

actually i'm surprized your dockmaster/marina personal hasn't corected your situation,lol the more i think of it the more pissed i get,hopefully things will be set right soon


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

tow him out to an unused mooring ball and put your girl to bed


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, renting a slip is not the same as renting or owning a house.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

This is not Japan. This is not a natural disaster. Nobody is running around trying to save their families, their livelihoods, or their homes. Docks were damaged and apparently some scumbag transferred his problem to the original poster. I don't have any useful suggestions other than to pressure the marina staff to kick the jerk out. The fact that a catastrophe hit Japan doesn't excuse this type of behavior in Hawaii.

I hope something bad happens to the squatter but I'd advise against being the source of retribution.

Good luck,
Chris


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## southshoreS24 (Aug 31, 2009)

wouldn't this be the marina's issue/responsibility? They do charge for slips and assign them. this is some one in a slip who has not paid, so unless they have charged him or you have ok'd it then they should remove him. He should be treated as a transient who has not paid...aka removed.... 

I understand that there are times when safe harbor can be claimed but that time has passed. 

If your marina does nothing then at the least demand a refund for the days that you have not been able to return to your paid slip. once you start asking for money back they will most likely get their butts moving.


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

Seastrider said:


> However, witnesses say this fella came in full bore < 30 minutes after we left, rammed the dock, tied off, then took off. In terms of etiquette in a time of crisis, this isn't what I'd call neighborly.


Boy, I sure hope neither you nor anybody else here finds himself in your position again. I'm getting more ticked the more I read about this situation. I do believe the dockmaster and marina owners need to step up and take some kind of action. That's another thing you pay for when you pay for your slip.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Read your contract. If the dock master is not opposed, and the laws in your state permit, have him towed away at the owner's expense.


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## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

also while they are deciding on how to move, or leave the boat, tell your dockmaster that the marina will be responsible for all monies paid out till this is resolved, also if you are forced to put your boat where it can be damaged at your marina make sure they know that any damage done will also be at their expense.
It would be no different than you were out sailing and they rented your slip to a transient boater and you came home early. They can put you here for a day or two and then move you home, or put the other party somewhere else.
You are renting the slip which as the tennat makes you owner of the slip in question. If anyone asked the boatmaster who owns the boat in slip 23 B dock, would they say your name????
If so then you are the rightfull owner of the slip and thats it.
why look for ways to ease this fellas problem.
If he paid for a slip then he can tote a flag to be replaced to a new slip, but yours is occupied by your boat.

imho


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## haffiman37 (Jun 4, 2004)

Unfortunately neither you nor the marina may touch the boat without either police permit or a court order!
Before you know it, the owner may sue for whatever trumped up damages.
Put an ad in the local newspaper with pic and name of the boat, and ask the owner to immediately remove it.
That will even spread the words to other marinas what kind of guy it is!
Then get a lawyer and demand all costs covered.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

all i can say is wow. go pay your rent for the slip you had for the next few months and sign a yearly contract now. slips are about to get even more expensive than they are now. this also gives you paper work showing "ownership" of the slip.

then contact everyone who can do anything, harbor master, marina owner, uscg. then go put a note on the boat and send a letter to the owner of the boat, charging him standard daily slip rates, everyday until he leaves. if the rates are 50 bucks a day so be it. if he does not move the boat in a month file a lean on it. the daily slip rates alone should get him to move fast.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The interloper is the one behaving badly - he should have contacted the dockmaster, worked something out or at least stayed around to see what was what. 

He's essentially abandoned the boat in a place that is not his to use. I agree with those that suggest the marina move him out. His misfortune at the other marina does not give him the right to just take over somewhere else.

That he's not even there to try to make arrangements or work something out speaks volumes... I wonder how he'd be reacting right now had the OP done the same thing to him.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Seastrider said:


> Aloha all: I'm looking for a bit of advice after the tsunami that decimated Keehi and La Mariana on Oahu. After arriving @ La Mariana at my boat slip in the morning, I found my vessel intact and undamaged, albeit with six boats dogpiled against it. Guidance of one of the staffers was to throw lines and get clear once the next surge came through and cleared the boats out, which I did. Was able to get outside the channel, and then couldn't get back b/c the USCG shut down access. Found a temporary slip elsewhere, which I'll have to vacate Monday morning.
> 
> Found out today that some random boat owner, whose A dock was destroyed, came into my slip, tied up, and left. I haven't spoken with him (although I stopped by today to try talk story with the guy); however, word from other people who were affected is that he's digging in his heels and will refuse to leave.
> 
> ...


Decimated ? Decimated ? Please tell me I didn't just read that. Have you no sense of proportion whatsever ? A few boats are cast adrift. FFS ... thousands of people died in Japan this weekend and the pissant ripple that went through Hawaii is decimation. Poor babies could have scuffed their gelcoats. Unbelievable.

To boot, you are now whining about a guy who might, just might give you a problem with your slip. You havn't even talked to him yet. You are the kind of goose who if he doesn't have something to worry about would worry that he didn't have something worry about.

Give me a break.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

When I read this post, the phrases "dark of night" and "adrift" come to mind. Not sure why. Being more restrained, will the marina give you this guy's home address? I would drive to his home and confront him about it.

Mike


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Mike: LOL


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Having been in a simulaar situation myself after Hurricane Ike I have some sympathy for both parties. A few differences, When I put my boat into an empty slip I left my name and number. And when the original slip owner returned I moved my boat imediately when contacted. The marina I ws in was destroyed leaving a shortage of dock space. debris from the hurricane, (I.E. floating houses), made anchoring too risky. I was able to find a dock outside the affected area. But the space I was put in already had another boat. The harbormaster put me in a transient space until the other boat could be moved, (thats his job). 

The "squatter" smells like a lawyer. I can't think of anyone else that would behave like that. If you take any action that could be construed as illegal he is likely waiting for the chance to sue you, (pro bono?). The harbor master may also be aware of this? The squatter is likely betting that if you touch his boat he can sue. He probaly isn't as concerned about money as saving his boat, (he obviously doesn't care about yours). And He is betting any legal action will take weeks, and give him plenty of time to find another slip once the courts ordered notifications start arriving. 

I would have a good long talk with the harbormaster, and see what he recommends. And watch that slip. if that boat leaves for a second,... TAKE IT BACK.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

Be a real shame if one of his seacocks was left open and a hose broke....

(I'm kidding of course)


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

And what if all of his lines just happened to break free? That would be a sad thing.


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## wescarroll (Jan 9, 2005)

Do your due diligence, read your contract and understand it, make sure all accounts with the marina are current, don't break the law, show you are generally not "Dick" (I assume you already have, reading your posts). After having done all this, become a dick, be a pain in the ass, call them, write them, post here and any where you can, show up in person and ask why as often as possible, get angry in the presence of would be customers, be loud but not obnoxious. They will eventually deal with your problem. Good or bad I can't say, if bad keep it up.


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## haffiman37 (Jun 4, 2004)

Let us have a pick of 'the squatter'??


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## BBurg (Feb 16, 2009)

Was it a sailboat or a powerboat? If it's a powerboat he may not have tied it off correctly. Those guys don't know seamanship.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

My earlier post may have been a tad hasty ... . From what I am reading the effects of the Tsunami in Hawaii and the US were a bit nasty though nowhere near comparable to Japan.

I still reckon that until you speak with the so called squatter this is over reaction.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

I'd talk to the harbor master first. If you don't get much luck there, look up the registration number of the boat. With some internet skills, you can find a number and call him.


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## sctpc (Jun 23, 2008)

tdw said:


> Decimated ? Decimated ? Please tell me I didn't just read that. Have you no sense of proportion whatsever ? A few boats are cast adrift. FFS ... thousands of people died in Japan this weekend and the pissant ripple that went through Hawaii is decimation. Poor babies could have scuffed their gelcoats. Unbelievable.
> 
> To boot, you are now whining about a guy who might, just might give you a problem with your slip. You havn't even talked to him yet. You are the kind of goose who if he doesn't have something to worry about would worry that he didn't have something worry about.
> 
> Give me a break.


Thats a wombat for you Grumpy, How would you like it if you had yours nicked and had no ware to put you boat?


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

tdw said:


> My earlier post may have been a tad hasty ... . From what I am reading the effects of the Tsunami in Hawaii and the US were a bit nasty though nowhere near comparable to Japan.
> 
> I still reckon that until you speak with the so called squatter this is over reaction.


_______________________________________________________________
To all of those that provided helpful advice: thank you. It's sincerely appreciated.

To the decimated-doubters: a comparison discussion between what happened @ La Mariana vs. what's occurring in Japan isn't even worth broaching. I can only say that my thoughts/prayers go out to those that are dealing with realities infinitely more heartbreaking, gut wrenching, and life-changing than anything we're experiencing locally. However: seeing > 200 boats damaged + dozens sunk, I think the localized label remains appropriate, despite the differences in scale.

As for any suggestion that I may/may not have tried to contact the owner: I have. Repeatedly. First, with request for the dockmaster to pass along my contact information at her convenience (which she did), along with a non-confrontational note I left for the gentleman today with a) my number and email address b) a general statement that we needed to work together to resolve things, and that while I wanted back what was rightfully mine, I'd take time off of work to help him move his boat to another slip, temporary mooring ball, etc. Work with me, sez I, as we're all in this together.

The response? None. Silence. Nada. The dockmaster called me to say he received the note, but that he was refusing to move (his sailboat) until he was set up at an alternative location. Others ~ the Marina were pumping out boats, cleaning up rubbish, relocating crippled boats, talking story, and generally commiserating on what was, in reality, a lucky outcome. This guy was a no-show.

So, there you go. Frankly, a simple call on his end would have helped to alleviate some of the frustrations, and he had ample opportunities to do so.

At this point, I've been told there's another slip on the same dock being cleared for us to come in tomorrow (absentee-owner has given permission for me to do so), since this DB (fill in the label as you like) is still being difficult. In speaking with two other harbormasters around the state who came to visit the facility, they've assured me that I'd be within my rights to make noise, complain, and physically move his boat since he's occupying an undamaged space that he's not paying for. I'd like to take the high road, and avoid this. But I'm also not inclined to be anyones doormat, thanks.

BTW: two boats specifically ran the USCG blockade to SPECIFICALLY avoid falling into the situation that I'm currently in. Not saying it was smart or right, but I can understand why they did what they did.

SPECIFICALLY @ TDW: before you post any trite or useless remarks next time, you may want to do your homework FIRST before stooping to the lowest common denominator and armchair trolling for a negative emotional response. Unless you were here, you have no idea what we experienced on our end, no matter what the differences in scale are. Personally, I went through quite a bit, and nearly lost my boat and possibly my neck. Ever deal with a freight train pushing you in one direction and moving wall of water coming at you from the other direction when there's no wind to power your sails and your engine dies in the impact zone? I doubt it. And yes, that's no f-g joke friend.

Considering that this was the THIRD tsunami-related event I've been involved with in the last seven years (was on-the-ground in American Samoa in 2009, diving on/lift-bagging reef debris and searching for bodies outside of Amanave and Leone among other south shore villages; had one of my divers get sucked out to sea during the 2004 Thailand tsunami while on vacation, and survived by holding onto a floating mannequin), I suspect I have more on-the-ground experience with the physical and emotional aftereffects of tsunami-related "decimation" than you ever will.

And I hope it stays that way.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Glad you are going to have a place to tie up for now. It isn't clear whether this squatter is originally from a damaged pier at the same marina. If so, they may feel entitled to relief and expect the dockmaster to figure out what to do with them.


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

@ Minnewaska: you are correct. He was tied off @ the A dock @ La Mariana, which was obliterated. And I do think he's entitled to relief. But that shouldn't come at the expense of someone else's well-being and general etiquette. His lack of communication, given the opportunities, is telling.

Can I borrow one of your margaritas? Although I doubt you'd want it back...


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

The "squatter" smells like a lawyer....

Nope. Would you believe he's a psychologist???


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Seastrider said:


> @ Minnewaska: you are correct. He was tied off @ the A dock @ La Mariana, which was obliterated. And I do think he's entitled to relief. But that shouldn't come at the expense of someone else's well-being and general etiquette. His lack of communication, given the opportunities, is telling.
> 
> Can I borrow one of your margaritas? Although I doubt you'd want it back...


I always have a margarita to spare.

Your neighbor certainly hasn't handled this well. However, I can hear their conversation with the dockmaster. I paid you for a slip, so find me a slip. Sort of a stalemate, unfortunately. The dockmaster is stuck with having to set one of his paid customers adrift. No win.

Unfortunately, despite the rhetoric above that you own your specific slip, you do not. My own contract allows the marina to move us around as necessary, for any reason. Although, its never happened. You should check yours.

Remain reasonable and be the kind of customer they wish to have when this is all over. It sounds like dock space is going to have to be rationed and some customers will be asked to go elsewhere. Better that be the squatter.


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

Squatters in a marina are an interesting problem. The law is completely on their side and you DO NOT own your slip. It's on the harbor master and even he is limited in what he can do immediately and it didn't seem to be an emergency for them.

Long story short.

1. Squatter in my slip when I arrived from getting my bottom painted (arrival date was clearly communicated)
2. I get put in a slip too small for my boat
3. Harbor Master does nothing as he cannot contact squatter
4. Squatter (power boater), who is vacationing goes out for the day and I move back in.
5. You would think think this was resolved!
6. I go out for a sail days later and he is back in my slip!!
7. He finally goes home, solving the problem

This can happen to anyone at any marina. If you leave your slip and someone squats, you are SOL. That's all there is to it, you have no rights and if you are unhappy, you can go to another marina and they'll be happy to rent the slip to him!

I think that most suspect that the offender can be towed and impounded, ticketed or other such measure but there appears to be no remedy for squatters. Longer term, they can be forced out (including towing) but in the short term - you're on your own. Touch their boat and you will find the law squarely behind them!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Been there doen that come home in the dark and rain after a distance race on the J24 and find a boat on my mooring a few harsh words and they left 

And of corse came back and dumped trash on my boat 

At least in Northport my name is on the ball and the operator would move the boat pretty fast as there very down on people not paying for short term stays


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

HeartsContent said:


> I think that most suspect that the offender can be towed and impounded, ticketed or other such measure but there appears to be no remedy for squatters. Longer term, they can be forced out (including towing) but in the short term - you're on your own. Touch their boat and you will find the law squarely behind them!


I wonder if this holds true if you squat in a police boat slip. Anyone want to test it out?


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

story of a run in= boat a has a slip belonging to vendor[slip was given to boat a because he does alot of bisness with vendor.]boat b ties up in the then vacant slip[both a & b are commercial lobster boats with big hp]boat a returns to dock.sternman gets ready to help with docking,capt says sit back down ill handle this.capt of boat a jockeys his rig around until he can wedge inbetween bow of boat b & float.he then gives full throttle and snaps,cuts all lines from b boat to dock,trusting boat b out into harbor.capt boat a then calls the offending boat b on his cell and tells b boat that his boat is heading out with the tide and if he wants he can come down an discuss the issue!!!! of course the guy never showed up.no law was ever called it was not needed


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Seastrider said:


> The "squatter" smells like a lawyer....
> 
> Nope. Would you believe he's a psychologist???


Tell him how this makes you feel? 

You attempted to work things out with him directly so now you must go through the harbormaster. Consider how they have dealt with this and if you don't like it, find another marina (if that's an option). That's the basic business-customer relationship.
It's a small community we are in so you don't want to be an ass. It'll come back around and get you. Do consider what the harbormaster is currently having to juggle. We often forget we're not the only customers.


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## timangiel (Sep 8, 2006)

I am impressed how the original poster tried to handle it, he is obviously a nicer person than I, and has set a good example for others. I hope everything works out for him.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Speak to the dockmaster and seek a reasonable solution. If that fails, let the other guy know that YOU have the contract, YOU are the leaseholder, and I'll bet that Hawaii has laws against trespassing just like every other state.

Usually, if someone ties up to your empty berth, that would be fourth-degree trespassing resulting in a ticket or summons. But once they have been formally warned and asked to remove the trespass, and refused to do so, it can escalate into felony first-degree trespass with substantial criminal fines and penalties.

Let me say again, I have no idea how Hawaian law runs on this, you'll need to ask--and then READ UP THE CODES to confirm it. You may need to swear out an arrest warrant against the owner, AND against the vessel, because yes, under maritime law one does literally arrest the vessel and nail a claim to the mast.

Let the guy know, you sympathize but he's TRESPASSING and if he expects to do that without penalty...he may wind up with his boat seized and his ass before a magistrate after a night in jail.

There's no "Mister Nice Guy" to be needed or expected. Letting him tie up alongside or behind you, that would be nice. Letting him effectively throw you out and take your property? Nah, that's totally inappropriate.

Let him know, you've already asked nicely, ONCE. That's more than you are obligated to do, and now it is time to put away the carrot, and take out the stick. On the bright side...You might wind up owning his boat!

PS-The dockmaster and marina probably have some legal obligations here too. Aren't they supposed to maintain the security of the marina and eject trespassers? Aren't they obligated to make the slip you pay them for, available to you? If they make _you _go after the invader...they're a part of the problem.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

After reading this a few times, HS has the right idea for how to go after the fellow. ALong with as mentioned, be polite to the marina staff etc. You are ALL in this together. Sounds like others are all trying to help ea other where and if they can, this owner is always the one that is a PITA> (he feels) he deserves more than others, for what ever reason. 

Sounds like you need to buy one of the other slip owner/renters a bottle of wine or equal for allowing you there slip on a temp basis etc. Best I can say is keep smiling, as noted, while what you have gone thru is bad, compared to others.....not so bad!

marty


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Seastrider said:


> _______________________________________________________________
> 
> SPECIFICALLY @ TDW: before you post any trite or useless remarks next time, you may want to do your homework FIRST before stooping to the lowest common denominator and armchair trolling for a negative emotional response. Unless you were here, you have no idea what we experienced on our end, no matter what the differences in scale are. Personally, I went through quite a bit, and nearly lost my boat and possibly my neck. Ever deal with a freight train pushing you in one direction and moving wall of water coming at you from the other direction when there's no wind to power your sails and your engine dies in the impact zone?  I doubt it. And yes, that's no f-g joke friend.
> 
> ...


May be the case you went through a bad time, may also be the case that you have more experience with Tsunamis etc etc but quite frankly your OP just got up my nose and I responded .. albeit .. as I admitted in my second post a little hastily.

Such it is.


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

*Update*

All: preliminary indications are that we'll be doing a swap this evening. Again, my thanks go out to those that provided possible solutions, be it through high or low roads.

Dockmaster, who made things happen while juggling much higher priorities than my minor dilemma (in the grand scheme of things), will be getting a cold bottle of Ballast Point "Victory-at-Sea" and a handful of home-baked goods (peach/black-rum crumb cobbler) prepped last night if things go according to plan....


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Well, that was a big letdown!

I was expecting to read how you put on your heaviest boots and went down to visit your new friend where you promptly stomped his on spectacles and then kicked him in the testicles.

Oh well. You did give the rasberries to a moderator, not all is lost.:laugher

See y'all in another 3 months.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

This reminds me of my apartment when I was younger. I had two assigned spaces with my apartment number on them. Every night someone used one of them because I had only one car. Then I'd work late and I'd have no space and have to park a few blocks away. The next time this happened I parked directly behind the offenders and went to bed. The next morning there was a knock at the door and a guy asked me to move my car, which I did. Word got out I guess, no one ever parked in either of my spaces again!

I often think of this about handicapped spaces. You have a handicap and the plate to match. A handicap space is taken by someone without a plate. You just park behind them, and now they are "handicapped" I'll bet no cop would ticket you or ask you to move your vehicle.

Gary H. Lucas


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## Seastrider (Mar 13, 2011)

Well, the squatter stopped squatting....to be temporarily replaced by another, which we found occupying the slip when we pulled up this evening! I started practicing my best impression of a GWB-slipper thrower, but it wasn't necessary. A bit of conversation, assistance with a side-tie for the gent nearby, a drink with the harbormaster, and we were back @ home, none the less for wear. Verbal boots will stay dusty this time around...


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

wow,i feel almost as relieved as you must be,surely your eligible for sainthood,no doubt you handled the situation in the best manner possible,my hats off to you.lol now i can return to being my loveable and amiable self


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Congrats to the OP. With an entire pier destroyed, the marina is going to have to send some tenants packing when next months rent is due. In the midst of a crisis like this, I would send the uncooperative looking for another home. Seems like that will be the squatter. It could have been the OP if he had taken some of the advice given here.


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## michigancruisers (Sep 12, 2008)

*blockade?*



Seastrider;
BTW: two boats specifically ran the USCG blockade to SPECIFICALLY avoid falling into the situation that I'm currently in. Not saying it was smart or right said:


> Seastrider, Can you please expand on this? The CG was preventing people from putting to sea that were trying to avoid getting hit by the Tsunami in shallow water?
> 
> Thanks


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## haffiman37 (Jun 4, 2004)

michigancruisers said:


> Seastrider, Can you please expand on this? The CG was preventing people from putting to sea that were trying to avoid getting hit by the Tsunami in shallow water?
> 
> Thanks


I understood it as the CG was trying to stop boats from re-entering INTO the marina and not those getting out of the marina.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

Minnewaska said:


> Congrats to the OP. With an entire pier destroyed, the marina is going to have to send some tenants packing when next months rent is due. In the midst of a crisis like this, I would send the uncooperative looking for another home. Seems like that will be the squatter. It could have been the OP if he had taken some of the advice given here.


no doubt your right however an as*ho** will always be just that until someone shows them the error of their ways


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Though a "small" tsunami it was still pretty damn nasty...at least to the marina.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

That hurt to watch that video.


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## IslanderGuy (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks for posting that smack. I have watched a few videos from different marinas, but none really seemed to capture what happened very well. This is very educational to see what can happen in a marina from even a relatively small tsunami, so far from the main location of the event that caused it.


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## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

To the OP

"This too shall pass"
Congrats on taking the high road, It may take some time but I suspect you will get this all sorted out and earn some credit with the marina and fellow boat owners while doing so. Word tends to get around in a marina, who are the good guys and who are not. I suspect in the long run you and the squatter will get what you both deserve. 

smackdaddy, that was painful to watch, very painful.

John


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

Seastrider said:


> The "squatter" smells like a lawyer....
> 
> Nope. Would you believe he's a psychologist???


My first thought was if you knew his name, you could find were his office was, you could squat in his parking space with a big sign on your car explaining what type of person he was. I'm sure that would have gotten interesting.


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## sctpc (Jun 23, 2008)

Daveinet said:


> My first thought was if you knew his name, you could find were his office was, you could squat in his parking space with a big sign on your car explaining what type of person he was. I'm sure that would have gotten interesting.


Haha I did that with a realestate Agent who lied about the previous owners rubbish would be removed the day of settlement, two months later it was still there the agent said tough so I painted a sign 3mt X 1200 stating he lied about it, Two hours later there CEO was on my door asking me to take it down I said I wanted $200 for a skip which he promptly gave as long as the sign was pulled down there and then.

embarrassment is a great was to change peoples priority's sometimes. :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

You should see them scrambling when a TV news crew shows up with the cameras and mics running. 

Gary


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

*My 2 cents*

First, your real "beef" should be with the marina management. In reality, they have breached their contract that the two of you signed. Since we (the people on this forum) haven't viewed that contact, we are speculating as to the exact terms of said contract.

Secondly, the "Squatter" is, no doubt, trying to secure your slip. The real problem is the marina can't rent the slip to both of you. It's not your fault his dock was destroyed. He needs to be proactive in finding a safe location for his boat. However, you have to realize the marina also has a contract with him...which they are going to have to breach. This is the marina's problem and not yours.

So, what I'd do is go to the marina management, with money in hand, ready to pay the slip rental on "my slip" for the next several months. I'd explain to them I'd really like to give them the money...except that I'm unable to use the slip due to a boat illegally parked there. And, could they please contact the owner because I HAVE TO MOVE MY BOAT IMMEDIATELY.

Under no circumstances would I touch the other boat except to place a note on it stating to immediately contact the marina office, but really the marina management should do that.

Read the contract carefully...

Skipper,
J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

...if that doesn't work I'll bet you wish you had SCUBA gear and an underwater drill...


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

I realize this is all over now, but this did bring up some curious questions about the laws regarding moving someone else's boat. I curious where I can do more reading/research on that subject. 
I would like to understand the difference between a boat and a car - meaning if my car is parked on a private lot, it is towed and I pay a whole bunch of money to get it back. Kind of thinking of the instants of the power boater referred to in the middle of the thread. Seems like the marina should be able to impound the boat or have it impounded. 

Also just curious of jurisdiction. Does the marina actually own the waterway or just the land? Is it possible for the marina to own the waterway as well? Does the marina typically pay the state for using/profiting from the waterway?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Zero, one of us is misreading the facts as posted. You're saying the squatter has paid the marina, contracted with the marina. The OP never said that. The OP said HE himself has paid for the slip and the squatter is just that--a squatter who has come in and tied up without paying anyone.

As to who owns what...you'd have to find out Hawaiian law and title relevant. The waters, the right to navigation in transit of navigable waters (defined as those with passage to the ocean) are generally federally reserved to the public under USCG control. The *bottomlands* under the water are sometimes privately owned, sometimes publicly, depending on title going back before the US was formed, on war bond sales as recently as WW2, and other issues. You can't presume anything about the ownership without seeing the actual title, or the local laws.

Doesn't matter much, because if you've rented a slip (warehouse, garage space, other "storage" area) you generally stand as the owner, unless your contract says otherwise. Can the OP sink the squatter? Of course not. But I'd bet he sure could have him dragged into court and given a very expensive time there. (Which it sounds like the squatter is just begging for.)

Nice if it can all be worked out among gentlemen...but of course, squatters AREN'T gentlemen, some of them are outright thugs and bullies.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Zero, one of us is misreading the facts as posted. You're saying the squatter has paid the marina, contracted with the marina. The OP never said that.


The OP did say the squatter was tied off to the destroyed dock A in the same marina. I suppose he didn't clarify that he paid to be there, but its certainly more likely that he did.



> ......Doesn't matter much, because if you've rented a slip (warehouse, garage space, other "storage" area) you generally stand as the owner, unless your contract says otherwise.......


Where does it say this in the law?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minnewaska, "Where does it say this in the law?" that will depend on the venue you are in. There are usually commercial lease and residency and tenancy rules. There are property ownership rules. And there are contracts, among things a lease of a place may be "net" "net net" or "net net net" with each of those prases refering specifically to which of the parties is responsible for how much of everything. If I lease an apartment and the fuller brush man refuses to leave, I have the right to have him removed and arrested as a trespasser. I don't need to ask the property owner, becuase tose rights pass on to me as the tenant. Sometimes in contract, sometimes in one of many legal sections.
Hawaii? Don't know but I'd expect that since Hawaii ollows a most unique common law that has no relation to the ones in the mainland, things will be the same yet different.
I had a little problem once with an insurer who recovered my car and stowed it at any auction yard, intending to sell (steal) it out from under me. The boss said sorry, they brought it here, they have to release it, you have to speak to them. I said sorry, that's titled property and I'm the title holder and this here is my certificate of title. The State Police Barracks is five miles down the road, either you release the titled property to the title holder immediately, or I'll be back with the troopers and you can explain it to them while they're cuffing you up.
Ah, gee....maybe we can release it to you...

All this stuff varies from town to town and state to state, not to mention country, but the bottom line is that it is all documented, and these days most of it is online. (Which is much eaisier than finding and gaining admission to a law library.) And the laws pretty much always say the same thing in the US: If someone is on property that *you* have the rights to, and they don't, that's trespassing and it usually escalates from 1st degree to fourth degree at which point someone is going to get a rude awakening.

I was brought up the old fashioned way: If it doesn't belong to me and doesn't say "WELCOME ******!" I don't tie up to it unless I really MUST.

OTOH if I see strangers in the cockpit, I feel fine about pumping 'em full of Everclear and dragooning them for passage at sea. Ah, the fine old traditions must be honored!

There's all sorts of musty old law books that slowly are making it onto the internet. Some--like the chartering papers of the US National Guard program--go back to 1903 and STILL are only available in repository libraries, or the library of congress, and have never made it online. Most of your city adminstrative code (which would affect liens) and criminal code (tresspass) should be available at any repository library.


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

Some comments:

1) Most marina slip contracts have a provision that the Harbor Master can place you where it works for him - not you. You are assigned a slip and it is not unheard of to have that assignment changed to fit in a bigger boat. You have the right to cancel, if moved, but then you're out of the marina and that guy is in your slip either way. 

2) Trespassing - You do not own the slip, you are paying to keep your boat at the marina (see #1).

3) Even if you slip is destroyed, if you decide not to pay, you will lose your slip in the marina and most have a waiting list. Withholding funds is an idle threat in most marinas, they may even laugh. 

I agree that a squatter, in any situation, is low life and a nuisance that knows there is little you can do about it and the Harbor Master is limited also. They'll leave when it works for them and they usually do leave.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Hmmmm! Things must be different in Florida than here in the frozen wilds of Maryland. I just read my contract, and nothing you posted was in it. My Contract has 31 clauses in it, including short term vacancy, parking, etc.. It essentially says you rent the slip and it's yours. If you want someone else in your slip, you must first contact the Marina Office and obtain permission--something like subletting an apartment. And, the marina cannot move your boat without your express permission--even for winter storage. 

Gary


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I have no idea how it works in Hawaii, but here, in California, marinas are specifically exempt from the laws and regulations (or many of them anyway) involving residential leases. I suspect that this particular case would hinge primarily upon the language of the slip holder(s) contract(s).

However, all this real doesn't matter all that much anymore. The problem has been resolved, the tsunamis are history, and Hawaii still has just about the most perfect sunsets imaginable. So, why don't we just let sleeping dogs lie and worry about real issues?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I looked it up. Hawaii's definition of 2nd degree Trespassing does transfer the right to the lessee to make the "reasonable warning or request to leave". It must be in writing.

However, they will defend themselves as being reasonable to take a few days to relocate after a natural disaster and I'm certain would prevail.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I'm glad this worked out. And I guess we all learned something. I for one learned there is no such thing as a "small" tsunami. It is not without cause that tsunami's are the most feared of mother natures actions.


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

I did end up finding the answer to my question - at least for in IL where I am located. Apparently my original suspicions were correct for IL. don't know what HA or CA law is, but one would expect the laws to be somewhat similar. 


> 45/3C-3. Removal of watercraft
> Whenever a watercraft is abandoned on any body of
> water in this State for 24 hours or more, its removal by a
> towing service may be authorized by a law enforcement
> ...


So at least in IL, one could have had the boat towed, based on the fact that it was unattended and was impeding navigation - specifically your navigation that you had a right to. I would be surprised of other states did not have similar laws to manage such situations.

I only post this for future reference as this post has been resolved, but for someone who may run into the a similar situation later on.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Daveinet said:


> ...So at least in IL, one could have had the boat towed, based on the fact that it was unattended and was impeding navigation - specifically your navigation that you had a right to...


I think that it's a huge stretch to claim that a boat that is occupying someone else's slip is "impeding navigation." Not sure I'd want to be defending that one in court! 

Also someone has to pay the tow boat, and/or the place where you put the boat - I'm sure they'd all want cash on the spot. Lotsa luck getting reimbursed for those charges.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, yes and no. Laws can't always be read in the common tongue, they have their own definitions. Any good technical editor or literay commentator could footnote the hell out of 'em to clear them up'

"45/3C-3. Removal of watercraft
Whenever a watercraft is abandoned [def: cast loose, dumped, left unattended AND secured, neither anchored nor tied] on any body of
water in this State for 24 hours or more, its removal by a
towing service may be authorized by a law enforcement
agency having jurisdiction.

When an abandoned, unattended [note abandoned and unattended are here confirmed as two separate states], wrecked, burned or
partially dismantled watercraft is creating a traffic or navi-
gational hazard because of its position in relation to the
waterway or because its physical appearance is impeding
traffic or navigation, [sorry, occupying your parking spot ois not a hazard to navigation and traffic in the waterway, its just a blasted inconvenience to you] its immediate removal from the
waterway by a towing service may be authorized by a law
enforcement agency having jurisdiction. "

So if you read the law critically, none of it would apply to the situation of finding a squatter secured in your berth.

Of course, I've always felt that anything in my boots or bed MUST be MINE and as my dog taught me years ago, anyone who wakes you up to play, must play be YOUR RULES.

"Well, Officer, I thought it was a little odd, but I checked the numbers and it was in my berth, so I figured it must be my boat. I lost it to some fellas in a poker game, up the coast last night."

Works for me!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It would also be hard to suggest the squatter abandoned his boat, when he was a paying tenant of the same marina.


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## Lavatube (Mar 24, 2010)

*La Mariana*

Hey, you found my youtube video.  
La Mariana is still pretty messed up. They're jockeying boats around trying to straighten B dock apparently.


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## geehaw (Jun 9, 2010)

Here they have docking for 680 boats. During salmon fishing season they had over 800 boats. (talk about docking anxiety). They do what they have to do to accommodate. There are ways to accommodate they just have to want to They need to try to do something for you you paid for the slip. IMHO Greg


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