# If I buy this actual boat (1979 O'Day 28) what will yearly cost be?



## jmfell (Aug 4, 2010)

Hi All-

Although, I've been on boats for most of my life, I am just learning to actually sail and I would like to purchase my first boat. I'm looking for rough averages about what it would cost to own a boat. I have a budget of 10K for the initial purchase. I'm looking for a 27 - 30 sailboat that will be comfortable for weekend trips and still fun to sail. A few questions:

1) Pros and cons of this boat - 1979 O'Day 28 (boats.com/boat-details/O'day-Sloop/22246501)
2) Any other suggestions for sailboats?
3) If I bought that boat (or similar), what do you think would be a ballpark yearly average I would spend on storage and maintenance on a sailboat of this age?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. Great forum here!

-jf


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

You will spend as much as you have to spare, and no more.
Seriously.

I need more info. Where do you live? Do you plant to keep the boat in a marina in a slip, or on a mooring?


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

Welcome to the "New Sailors Club". 
1st, let me say, there will be quite a few people who will much more intelligent advice that I, but I'm throwing my $.02 in anyway.
First of all, 10k is a nice budget for a 1st sailboat budget and you should have a lot of options. Take your time, study, ask lots of questions and get as much assistance/advice that you can. A person can spend 10k and get a great deal, or the same person can spend the same amount and purchase a nightmare. You say this is your 1st boat to own, so it would be most advisable to make sure you get a 'survey' before you purchase anything. For a few hundred dollars, and 3rd party professional will inspect the boat from top to bottom and point out all the areas of concern and even give you a rough idea of what will be involved in the repair/upkeep. Second, revisit the 1st advice and get a survey before your purchase (lol). I can't stress that enough as many boats will look great on the surface to the untrained eye only to be found hiding a myriad of problems, some even fatal. And again, don't forget it's a buyer's market still. You're the one in control so if someone hits you with a , "Well, I've got 3 other people looking at, so you better hurry". Kindly nod, thank the person and move on!
As to the expected yearly maintainence costs, a lot of that is variable in that we don't know what you're expecting. For instance, can you do any or all of the repair work yourself or will you be using a "Yard" or professional for hire to do the routine and the repairs? Those are two entirely different figures with a large gap in them, keep in mind.
It's good to see that you at least know that there will definitely be an annual expense to owning this 1st one of yours. That's a nice start. But, since you said it's the 1st, keep in mind there's nothing wrong with going even smaller and less expensive while you learn to sail/own a boat/etc. and then take your time knowing what you like/dislike, want/don't want, must-have, can't-live-without, etc. Good luck and keep us informed of the process.
Oh, btw, the rule is simple; pics or it didn't happen!


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## jmfell (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, that was quick! I live near Boston, MA.

I've been doing a lot of research online (great info on this site). After researching and calling around this is where I think it's at, but I'd like to get more first hand experiences:

1) Slip at Boston Harbor Shipyard: $3,800/year
2) Mooring in Winthrop Harbor: $800 Intial Setup $350/year
3) Roundtrip Launch/Hauling/Winter Storage: $2000
4) Insurance: $200/year
4) General Maintenance: ????

Running Yearly Avg. (mooring): $2550 + maintenance
Running Yearly Avg. (slip): $6000 + maintenance 

Do those numbers seem in the ballpark? I'm a little foggy on what the avg. maintenance will cost for a boat of this age, but I actually look forward to working on the boat myself as much as I can in the off-season.

Thanks again!


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

*Some other expenses*

JF,

You've got a good handle on the starting points of cost-of-ownership.

There are going to be some incidentals, some of which will depend on the boat's current condition (that's the part about the survey again!)

Engine - inboard or outboard? It'll need regular servicing - oil and filter changes, plus new impeller, cutlass bearing for inboard, etc every so often. How has it been maintained?
Standing rigging - is it in good enough shape to last a good number of years? Eventually these things need replacement
Running rigging - same deal
Bottom condition - you'll need new paint at least every few years, better every year. You can save money by painting yourself. Marine paint is expensive!
Sails - they can last a long time if you use them gently and take good care of them, but eventually they wear out.

I'm sure people can add tons more to this list.

And then of course there's the stuff you hope the survey shows you're not going to have to worry about - the most important being water getting in around through hulls, chainplates, etc, keel bolt condition. If you discover waterlogged cored decks or something, things are going to get expensive fast! But if it's healthy now, careful maintenance should make sure it stays that way.

If your boat's really in good condition, none of this should add too much to your basic overhead of moor/slip, haul-in and -out and winter storage.


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## GMC (Sep 14, 2009)

*Winter*

If you store your boat in the water for the winter (wet), you might save about a thousand or more. They will pull boat in the spring, power wash bottom and change zincs (although they didn't have my zinc). I did this at Admiral Hill Marina in Chelsea last winter. You may want it out for other reasons, but that is an option.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While you can store your boat in the water for the winter, many insurance policies require that you haul it for the winter layup period. YMMV.


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## jmfell (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks for the great feedback. 

It looks like I have a lot to learn about maintaining a sailboat (wasn't even aware of 'zincs'). I plan to look at as many boats as I can over the next few months and continue my research. The summer and fall still have many great weeks left in which I'll focus on learning "how" to sail.

The first boat I'm going to look at is this 1979 O'Day 28 (boats.com/boat-details/O'day-Sloop/22246501).

Pros and cons based on pics and listing? Anything jump out about this particular boat I should know about before I go and take a look?

Thanks!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd recommend you read the *Boat Inspection Trip Tips* thread I started, as it will help you determine whether any boats you look at are even worth going forward on, saving you the price of a survey on boats that aren't worth looking at further.


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## jmfell (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks Sailingdog - great thread!


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## pfell (Aug 6, 2010)

*buy a whaler you ding-a-ling*

buy a whaler you ding-a-ling. :laugher :laugher


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

pfell said:


> buy a whaler you ding-a-ling. :laugher :laugher


I'll make some popcorn.

:laugher :laugher :laugher

BTW, I'm not personally familiar with the O'day 28, but I've spoken with several owners who really, really love theirs.

The haulout/storage/splash number seems high, but maybe that's normal for the Northeast? Would you carry insurance? (Does your intended marina require insurance? Replacement, or liability only?)

Engine condition is an obvious red flag: a 1979 engine might be good for another decade, or it might be ready to croak tomorrow. That's a $6000 difference, if professionally installed. Can you even get a replacement for it? (Strange: the listing says diesel, but the description says gasoline.) Saildrives are cool but titchy and it seems like they corrode quickly. One thing to inspect closely is the age and condition of the standing & running rigging. Changing one of those items out is fine, but doing both in the same year can hurt. The ad says new standing in 2005, so you should be okay there. Running rigging on this boat shouldn't be too bad, and old sails can be nursed a year or two.

You should be able to buy a copy of the 2009 survey for much less than having a new one done; if it is by a reputable party, you could use it (along with a knowledgeable friend) to make your decision. I'd at least insist on a demonstration the engine works before buying.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Sounds like you have a good idea of what the annual costs could come to. There may be a more modestly priced 'sailing club' (not a yacht club but a working club) somewhere around your area that you could join. Our yearly fees for summer mooring and winter storage comes to around $1500/year before maintenance costs.
If there is something like this in your area SailingDog will know about it.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Based on 20 years of owning on boat of similar size and age in the Northeast, figure $1000 per year for maintenance parts and supplies (bottom paint, engine filters and oil, etc.). That assumes you do all the work yourself and does not include major projects like replacing sails or rebuilding the engine. Your price for insurance seems low and cost for winter storage seems high. My annual costs for summer mooring, winter storage, insurance, and routine maintenace for a 30 footer on Long Island ran about $5000 per year.


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## endoit (Jun 20, 2010)

My experiance was much different when I recently purchased a Bristol 35.5. The $700 survey did not reveal quite a fiew issues pertaining to the systems on board and I had to upgrade many systems to bring them up to current standards. I found boat yards and rigging companies to under estimate the cost of repairs especialy when someone is new to sailing. I thought I did my homework but there is far more that I didnt know. The 2 day 2 dedicated marine employee estimate plus running rigging replacement turned out to be a 2.5 month ordeal. I am still enjoying the early sailing part and going out today to learn some more.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

*Hmmm... Idonno...*

A plus: a friend of mine has a nice ODay 28 in our yacht club and cruises it with his family -- wife and two small boys. They have a great time.
It sails well enough (define that as you will) and is roomy enough for them, and they are on a budget...).

A big minus:
(quoted from the on line ad)
" ENGINE & MECHANICAL : Single 1979 OMC gas inboard, 15 hp, Model 15SNG sail drive, 2 cylinder, RWC. OMC Sail Drive 2:1 reduction gear. "

Those two-stroke OMC powerheads mated to a sail drive were only popular with builders saving a production buck when they were new. They did not get better with age, imho.
You would get the fuel-thirsty habits and smoke of a two stroke combined with the corrosion-potential of an alum. saildrive.

It might be well-maintained and work as well as it was designed to work when new... but on a used boat this level of recorded Preventative Maintenance would be rather unusual although not impossible.

Nice little boat in many ways, but do not pay too much for it, and have an engine and drive system survey done for sure. Remember that someday when you sell it, quite a percentage of prospective purchasers will _not_ consider any sailboat with a gas engine.

Sidebar: wheel steering on such a small cruiser is quite a silly affectation, but otoh perhaps the original owner did take care of the overall maintenance better than average, having paid a ton of money for options like that. Perhaps?


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## ChuckA (Dec 28, 2008)

I put a deposit on a late 70's O'Day 28 last fall, but never got as far as the survey. The boat looked very nice aesthetically, and was offered in the $6K range with about a 10-12 year old Yanmar diesel that had gotten very little use, so it seemed like a bargain; but when I did a more detailed inspection, I found substantial cracks in the tabbing that would have required some major structural work. When I showed the owner photos of the cracks, he offered to lower the price by $1k, but when I declined he refunded my deposit without argument. Look for stress cracks in the deck, especially near the anchor compartment, and other vertical bulkheads, then look at the tabbing nearby. This stuff is fixable, but it takes a lot of time and effort (or expense). I ended up with a '75 Pearson 28-1 for a little more money, and am very happy with the boat.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Jmfell.. ck the rudder for blistering and or large areas of swelling from freeze and thaw cycles. It's repairable, Oday's have very large rudders easy to remove, (well not easy, but not difficult) good winter project. 

Is it wheel or tiller steering? It may have an encapsulated keel, if so get it checked for weepage when it's out of the water. You may also have blistering at the water line, not a big problem if you plan to do barrier coat eventually.


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## Pamsboat (May 6, 2009)

Another bit of information to think about. I bought a 32' sailboat that is a "Fix me Up" or "This Old Boat" category. I bought the boat a year ago and looked forward to the projects until it was time to upgrade the head! I re-plumbed the whole system. New toilet and new hoses. It was a nightmare! I bought a Jacobs head, and the suggested size hoses. I installed the whole new system only to discover the Jacobs marine toilet leaks with 1 1/2" HOSE. When I tried to return the toilet to West Marine, the store manager suggested that I do some creative plumbing. Instead I took a piece of 1 1/2" hose, tried it on the floor model toilets until I found a toilet that it fit snuggle to.

I envisioned upgrading the deck with a product called FlexiTeek. but the money I budgetted for the project had to be redirected to an engine problem. It seems the engine would not turn over in the spring. It was not the battery. I called in a diesel mechanic, he got the motor running for $750. however after we launched the boat and started to motor away from the dock the engine light went on. The engine was overheating! The wind was steady 20 to 30 knots on our nose but we sailed to our mooring. 

With the help of an older friend I fixed the cooling problem in the engine. Another $140 in parts for a new raw water strainer. 

My fix me up boat is 25 years old. It is taking me two to three times as much time as I planned for each project. The bottom line is be mindful of your time, engery, and resources before you commit to a boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Pamsboat said:


> Another bit of information to think about. I bought a 32' sailboat that is a "Fix me Up" or "This Old Boat" category. I bought the boat a year ago and looked forward to the projects until it was time to upgrade the head! I re-plumbed the whole system. New toilet and new hoses. It was a nightmare! I bought a Jacobs head, and the suggested size hoses. I installed the whole new system only to discover the Jacobs marine toilet leaks with 1 1/2" HOSE. When I tried to return the toilet to West Marine, the store manager suggested that I do some creative plumbing. Instead I took a piece of 1 1/2" hose, tried it on the floor model toilets until I found a toilet that it fit snuggle to.


Probably would have been best off ordering a Raritan PHII or PHC LBA kit. This would have effectively given you the most reliable manual head available for under $500.



> I envisioned upgrading the deck with a product called FlexiTeek. but the money I budgetted for the project had to be redirected to an engine problem. It seems the engine would not turn over in the spring. It was not the battery. I called in a diesel mechanic, he got the motor running for $750. however after we launched the boat and started to motor away from the dock the engine light went on. The engine was overheating! The wind was steady 20 to 30 knots on our nose but we sailed to our mooring.
> 
> With the help of an older friend I fixed the cooling problem in the engine. Another $140 in parts for a new raw water strainer.


Essential systems take priority over "cosmetic" repairs IMHO. 



> My fix me up boat is 25 years old. It is taking me two to three times as much time as I planned for each project. The bottom line is be mindful of your time, engery, and resources before you commit to a boat.


Triple the time and money on any given project, and expect each to lead to at least one unexpected project as a result...  Welcome to the world of boat ownership... BOAT=Break Out Another Thousand...


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## DesivoDelta (Apr 3, 2009)

Hi, 

I my suggestion would be to NEGOTIATE and negotiate hard. If your budget is 10K and the boat is 9.5K, you’re only leaving yourself with a $500.00 cushion. Personally, I think that’s too little to cover immediate incidental charges. Throw the seller an offer of 7.5K and then slowly work up. Use Sailingdog’s thread on inspection tips and work over every inch of the ship.

There is nothing wrong with driving a hard bargain. I for one don’t respect people the pay MSRP without at least inquiring about getting a discount. Your money and time are very important. Don’t just give both away.

Other than that, I would suggest hauling in out till next season. The storage will be cheaper. The insurance will be cheaper. Plus, regardless of how clean/cared for the boat is, you will need to make repairs and replacements. Just make sure you negotiate a good price with the yard as it’s “between seasons”. Don’t get charged double in slip and winter storage fees.

Best of luck!!! I hope she work out for you. Just remember, as the new owner, you’ll be taking on the joy and costs of ownership. Every penny you save on fees, is a penny you can put to sailing!


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## Pamsboat (May 6, 2009)

*Boston Area Yacht Clubs?*

Hi,

I am wondering if you have considered joining a local yacht club? I was a member of Cottage Park Yacht Club in Winthrop. When we joined in the 1990's the inciniation fees and dus were not that expensive. Most of the members owned boats in the 25' to 35' range.

Because we moved to the South Shore my husband joined Squantum Yacht Club in Quincy. The dues are around $500. The club offers launch service. All the boats are kept on moorings. Again most of the members have boats about the size of yours. Many of us do our own repairs.

Pam


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