# Cruising Catamarans Offshore



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In my search for a shoal draft boat with some offshore abilities (East Coast, possibly as far as Bermuda or Yucatan) I just realized I have been totally ignoring catamarans.
This is a type of craft about which I know absolutely nothing; I have never even sailed a cat.
So I am looking for any input. Boats I have looked at in my size/price range include older Gemini 30-32, Iroquois 30 (one of the better looking cats to my mind} Prout 31 and Catalac 30.
As I said, any response is appreciated, but I am most interested in a discussion of small cruising cats offshore.
Thanks all, Gary


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## henryvand (May 2, 2000)

you should try posting at www.themultihull.com


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## Mike_S (Dec 23, 2004)

While it may not be small (or innexpensive) you might have fun reading about Pat and Ali Schulte who are in the middle of a circumnavigation aboard their 2002 Wildcat 35MKII named Bumfuzzle (http://www.bumfuzzle.com). One of the nice things about their site is that they include their month by month budget.

I wonder what most people will think about them ... two 30-somethings that had never sailed before travel to Florida, buy a cat and learn to sail as they start their circumnavigation. Crazy? Or simply not "experienced" enough to be worried about all the bad things that could happen?

Cheers,
Mike


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

Mike, I''ve read a fair bit of BUMFUZZLE''s logs and even corresponded with them to praise their diligence in posting "unedited" monthly expenses for others to see, since this is always something other new cruising sailors wonder about.

However, I sure wouldn''t recommend BUMFUZZLE as a role model for how to approach cruising. My conclusions about their experiences to date are:
1. Youth really is wasted on the young.
2. To cruise with little apparent knowledge of or interest in geography, history and culture is a waste of good money and boat.
3. They have yet to learn much about sailing.

Best example of clueless introspection I can remember: They went from island to island in the SoPac, complaining that no islanders knew how to splice double-braid line. There was just no comprehension that THEY needed to bring some skills along with them, or that they looked like the dumbest of the folks on any island they visited since they had the line, they had the need, and they lacked the skills.

Jack


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

do yourself a big favour. 
go to the BVI''s rent a cat for a week and find out for yourself ... You gonna spen a couple thousand but you will thank me for it ...

Thorsten


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the replies. Multihull.com is a good lead and I''m just starting to explore the forum.
Thorsten, renting a cat was a real forehead-slapper, I''m going to follow up. However, BVI is a bit out of the question for awhile. We''re relocating from Alaska to Pamlico Sound in March. Any catamaran charters in North Carolina you know of?
Pax, Gary


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I confess my total ignorance about catamarans but...

Last summer I was cruising the West Coast of Spain, the weather was kind of ugly, for summertime, nothing special, 25 to 35 knots of wind and 3 or 4 meters waves. I entered the sheltered waters of a "Ria" to spend the night and finished grounded. My family (two of them badly seasick all day) wanted very badly a marina, to stay for some time, till the sea calmed dawn.
At dinner time, we have seen a cat sailing out of the marina. It was a nice cat, not one of those fat ugly things, but a 40ft (or more) sleek thing, with a full crew. I have made some comments, something like :"see, those guys don''t get seasick nor scared...They are going at night and you don''t want to go in the daylight".

Bad move...They capsized during the night...They were all rescued, but the boat was lost.

It took me almost one week to take my family out of that marina....

Garyp, have you considered the Southerly boats? They have a very good reserve stability, something that is not usual in that kind of boats, and can sit on a beach.

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

capsized ? wow that is almost impossible to do. Forget the racing cats or tri''s for a moment. 

That post needs a little more info, what kind of boat was it. What was the reason they capsized ? How many monhulls were lost in the same storm and sunk ..lol 

Thorsten


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Hi thorj30

I have already said that I know very little about cats.

Basically I can distinguish 4 types, the odd ones (home built) the big fat ones, the racing ones and the ones that look like cruiser/racers.

I like the ones that look like cruiser/ racers and it was one of those (around 40ft) that capsized that night.

That Cat was the only boat that had an accident.

It was not a storm, just a little bit rough, like 3 to 4 meters waves and 25 to 35 knots of wind.

I don''t know why they have capsized.

I found it strange that you think that cats are almost impossible to capsize.


I remember that in the 2002 "Route du Rhum" (transatlantic race) four 60ft cats capsized, (I know that they were race cats, but ocean going big race cats and by the way, none of the monohull capsized ) and they were skippered by some of the best sailors around. In fact could it be me or you, it made no difference, without sails , 60/70 knots of wind on the mast was all that was necessary to capsize them.

I remember to have read a story, some years ago in a French magazine, about one of the big fat ones that was lost near Crete (Med).
I remember it well because the sea conditions didn''t seem too severe to me (something like 40 to 60 knots winds with 5 to 6 meters waves). The crew was saved by a Cargo ship, and the story was told by a crew member.

In the August 2003 edition of "Yachting Monthly" you can read this story about the delivery trip of a 32ft Iroquois cat by two sailor instructors the owner of the boat and another crewman.

It was a coastal passage in somewhat protected waters, from Portsmouth to Cork.
The story is told by the head sailing instructor at an international Sailing school, the skipper of the boat:

"I''d undertaken delivery trips between the Solent and Cork before....The forecast was a force 6, possibly increasing to 7 during the night and then decreasing next morning.
...we made sure we were undercanvassed...we had 2 reefs in the main, two rools on the head sail and half centerboards down.
The wind was 22 but the waves were not more than 2 to 2ft6in in high. We were pointing apx. 55º to the breeze with a slightly free sheet...Sailing about 6 knots we were really enjoying ourselves.
...I was at the nav. station when I felt the hull lift. I stuck my head out of the hatchway and looked up - tom the helmsman was about 8ft above my head with the crew to leeward, virtually in the water. The boat went straight onto her side and inverted immediately ...
The helmsman told us he''d seen a "wall of water" under the windward hull just before the capsize...We were certainly not over-canvassed and the breeze was no more than 22 knots".



Thorj30, can you tell me why do you think that it is almost impossible to capsize a cruising cat?




Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

yes i can 
you take as example racing cats, 3 of them who capsized.. without any sails on them ???? who in the right mind would sail without ANY sails ..anyway.

than the story of the english fellow in a cat. with centerboards halfways down ... in a real blow you do not have the CB down as you cannot slip down the side of the waves, but dig in, the wave crest flipped them over.... Anyhow there are a lot of cats out there and I dont hear a lot of them capsizing ..... 

have you looked at an Iroquois ? That british design is way old and certainly not what the original poster would consider. 

Usually modern Cruisng cats are super safe, and being faster than monohulls they can take advantage of smaller weather windows and make safer long trips.

Of course some idiots will be able to do almost anything and even capsize a catamarane, you wrote that nobody else was going out. 

Your examples go back atil 02 ( racing cats ) how many mono hulls have sunk in the last 3 years ? And how many of the unfortunate sailors on them did not have the chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull ?

I stay to my word that multis are safe.

Thorsten 
wo sails a monohull...lol


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Thorj30 said:

"you take as example racing cats, 3 of them who capsized.. without any sails on them ???? who in the right mind would sail without ANY sails "



I say:

Not any racing cats, but 60ft ocean racer cats.

And it were not three that capsized, but four.

You really didn''t understand why they have capsized. They have capsized because the moment force produced by the wind hitting the mast was enough to capsize them, no matter what, even without waves. Of course if you carried any sail, you would just have capsized sooner. 
I have read an interview with one of the skippers involved (one of the French top professional racing sailors) where he explained clearly the situation that led to those inevitably capsizes.


Thorj30 said: 

... "the story of the English fellow in a cat. with centerboards halfways down ... in a real blow you do not have the CB down...Of course some idiots will be able to do almost anything and even capsize a catamaran..."


I say: 

Do you call 22Knots of wind a blow?

That was a crew of four, two of them were professional sail teachers and experienced delivery skippers. I can not find anything stupid in their actions, even with the centerboards. They were pointing at 55º with almost no waves (2ft) with “only”22 knots of wind in an undercanvassed boat with slightly free sheets…it looks alright to me...Why do you call them stupid? 


Thorj30 said:

"you wrote that nobody else was going out"


I say:

No I did not write such a thing, I have said:

"the weather was kind of ugly, for summertime, nothing special, 25 to 35 knots of wind and 3 or 4 meters waves. I entered the sheltered waters of a "Ria" to spend the night and finished grounded. My family (two of them badly seasick all day) wanted .... to stay for some time, till the sea calmed dawn.
....I have made some comments: "see, those guys don''t get seasick nor scared...They are going at night and you don''t want to go in the daylight".

This means, that for me the weather was alright and that I wanted to go out in the morning. My family (seasick) didn''t want and I have stayed “grounded” against my will. In fact, I was complaining about that to them when I saw the Cat. sail away.

It was August, there was plenty of sailboats out there, a lot of them cruising the Biscay bay (and the weather was worse up there), making their way to the Med 


Thorj30 said:

"how many mono hulls have sunk in the last 3 years ? “And how many of the unfortunate sailors on them did not have the chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull?”


I say:

I don''t know. Do you know how many Monohulls are out there for each cruising Cat? A lot, certainly.

That''s crazy! Who, except you (perhaps ) would want to "have the chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull ?"

If you go on an adequate monohull ocean going yacht you don''t get upside down for more than some seconds, even if capsized and in fact you do not have that dubious "chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull".

The Southerly 115 (the boat I have suggested) is a boat that can go where any cat. can go and has a LPS/AVS of around 160º with an almost inexistent negative stability (less than 0.1 GZ(m)). 
Not a chance of staying upside down on that boat for more than a very few seconds, being the more probable that after capsizing the boat would continue to roll and come immediately, on the other side, the right way up.


Finally, don’t get me wrong, I like fast cats (not the fat ones) even if I like more Tri, like the “Dragonflies or the Corsairs” for example, but in this case, speed has its tradeoffs and safety is one of them.

Of course, everything is relative and I am not saying that Catamarans are unsafe, I am only saying that generally to the same size, Monohulls are safer and that is vastly exaggerated to state that - (to capsize a cat) “is almost impossible to do.”


Paulo


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Cats do overturn, even cruising cats. My father''s boat was hit by the mast of a cruising cat that was overturned by a strong wind in the Bahamas while both boats were sitting on the anchor. 

Jeff


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

I want to give an anecdote that is probably irrelevant.

I recently arrived in Grand Cayman after sailing there from Aruba. I saw many wrecked boats but the one that impressed me most was a totally destroyed 38ft cat. This was a common, very popular production cat. Both bows had broken off and the hull was wide open on both sides with large strips of the hull torn away. What got my attention was how thin the hulls were. I looked at the paper thin hull and imagined the stresses the seas exert on them. I could not imagine how such a vessel could stay together for long - and indeed it didn''t...

To be honest many monohulls were also damaged, but not one monohull looked as thoroughly trashed as that cat, except one classic wooden boat that was smashed to splinters at its dock.

What does this mean? Absolutely nothing. Just impressed me, that''s all

M. Murphy


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## henryvand (May 2, 2000)

It''s funny how when people talk about monohulls they readily recognize that there are coastal cruisers, mid range cruisers, blue water boats, etc., but when they talk about catamarans suddenly they are all the same. It''s time to recognize that cats have come a long way in recent years and now you can select any number of catamarans suitable for what ever type of sailing you have in mind however as is the case with monohulls you will need to do your homework. Keep in mind you will not get much in the way of usefull, unbiased information from committed monohullers.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Regarding the Southerly: I looked into them on the net -- this is a very interesting boat. There seem to be very few in the US and even fewer within my budget, but I will continue to keep an eye out.
Really? An AVS of 160 degrees? Sounds almost miraculous! (of course with the lifting keel fully down)
I would like to hear of other, similar craft.
My requirements are: under $50K, shoal draft of 4''0" or less, minimum DWL 25"0", minimum displacement 10,000lbs, attractive to look at.
Fair winds all, Gary


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Gary 
I reread your post and your last answer. Lets say for 50 grand spending money you are better off with a monohull.

The crusing cats which I would consider using in the area you plan to sail would be over 100 grand more like 150.000 ... ouch.

As you can see there are especially Mono hullers who HATE Multis with all what is worth.....lol 

Trick is if those folks have actually sailed BOTH ..lol... But again for your budget you are better off looking for a older Mono. ( and than later buy a fat)

Thorsten


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

This is crazy.Of course cats capsize any boat can capsize.The problem with cats is that you must be on top of things constantly.Ocean conditions can change rapidly and cats are very forgiving but only to a point.When things get out of control like they can do on any boat in bad weather ,it just happens faster.The only real drawback is what you do after a capsize should this unfortunate event happen.


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## henryvand (May 2, 2000)

Gary - If you want input on possible monohulls you should probably start a new thread so the heading matches the topic.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thorsten
Thanks for the courtesy of a further reply.
I have located a few cats under 50K that seemed like possibilities. Mostly Geminis and a ''77 Prout 31 that looks attractive, with centerboards and inboard diesel. I believe centerboards to be highly desirable, both for seaworthiness (boards up, or at least the leeward board for lying ahull) and weatherliness (boards down). The outboard on Geminis not so. I gather that the Gemini is considered a near shore craft, altho a few have made ocean passages. I know any lucky fool sometimes manages a voyage in an unsuitable boat, but I wonder just how unsuitable a Gemini really is? 
I can''t find much about the Prout at all. The rig with its far aft mast intrigues. It seems like reefed down the main would act like a mizzen for heaving to or lying at anchor. But I really don''t know anything about build quality of either boat.
Pax, Gary


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## henryvand (May 2, 2000)

You can get some pretty good info on both boats as well as a pretty good overview of the catamaran world from Charles Kantor''s book Cruising in Catamarans. You can buy it on line and I think you will find it a real help in evaluating your options.
For low priced catamarans you should keep an eye on 2hulls.com for sale By Owner section.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

garyp, 

Lifting keel boats are more expensive than fixed keel boats and $50k is not much for an ocean going boat.

The less expensive lifting keel that I know is the Feeling. It is made by Kirie and even if the 36 (new for around 150k euros) is a Class A boat (European Classified as Ocean going) I would not call him an ocean going yacht.

http://www.kirie.com/# 

Regarding cats, I find this sailnet article fair and interesting:

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=jkrets006


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

No Problem Gary 
You probably read in my answers that I really like Cats... and that I know that some people hate them ( for whatever reason) 

I am NOT an all knowing expert... by far not. I did a lot of reading on cats as I eventually will own one and go cruising with it, around the same areas as you are planning... the big dream, a lot of us all have. 

I am also highly allergic to people who come up with standards like Euro A qualification and Loyds stuff and so forth. Also allergic of people who come up with fancy formulas about righting moment and comfort equaisons... Thats my own opinion and not up to discussion anyhow. 

As far as Gemini, I looked at a couple and was not at all impressed with the quality of built. I think if you can see shortcomings than the rest ( which you cannot see ) aint so much better. Of course face it, its considerable cheaper than some of the french ones. 

Prout. For a while I loved them, being a little over engineered in the rigging ( lots of stays ) and the fact that you can do mainsail changes ( reefing ) and stuff from the cockpit. But they are also slap happy ( low freeboard between the hulls ) and they are heavy. Heavy means slow. I dont want a multi when it is slow ... Motor with that saildrive thingy didnt impress me either . 

WHat I liked : PDQ 36 Classic. Yes the CLassic with two outboards in a hole. You can lift them out of the water completly, they dont weight a ton, are easy repaired and so forth ...there used to be one for sale with all pink headliner and all interieour... went real LOW for around 100 grand. Almost bought it, but than real live kicked in and college for daughter was more important. 

Also I like the 35 and 37 Fountain pajots , these are tanks.. but sail refreshingly fast. 

Problem is with Multis more than Monos that people STUFF them full with all kinds of stuff. There is sooooo much room to do that. However due to the lower initial weight of a multi adding 2000 lbs of STUFF will mean you just added 25 % of the total weight. ( JUST FOR KICKS it alwasy depends on the boat, keep calm , it can be 27 or 23 % , who cares ) In a 30000 lbs mono hull the 2000 lbs dissapear ( again calm... its JUST an example ) 

Money no object I would get a 42 footer with dagger boards and go-fast carbon rig 
lotsa sail area and so forth ... will never happen.....

than again I might find one of those upside down multis floating around...there seem to be many......lol ( YES I should keep my mouth shut ) 

There are many cats around, and more and more coming. Email the guys at 2 hulls or Cheaspeake Catamarane center. Both are good people to deal with. 

Corsair 28 is a FAST alternative, Centercockpit version is ugly and there is NO room on the boat. Also you will be racing all the time ( which is fun ) Super fast boat which needs a strong hand. Expensive as them suckers dont loose value. 

Thorsten


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## bombayduck (Dec 14, 2004)

Check out the Catalac8m. I lived aboard for over a year and cruised to the Bahamas. Nice cruiser 27 ft by 13''10" beam with about 28" draft and 7,000 lbs displacement. It has one outboard that steers with the rudders. I averaged 5 knots for 10,000 miles both sail and motor out cruising. Not a fast boat but a great cruiser with lots of room and built really strong. I once lost a throttle cable when I was nosing into a slip and could not put it in reverse and hit the dock HARD. The result? Two V shaped holes in the dock where the bows hit! No damage to the boat but a minor scratch. Mine cost 27K and I put about 7K more in upgrades to get her out cruising. Had a blast. I know several others who have been living aboard and cruising on these boats for years. The 9m is bigger with a different layout. AND there has not be one documented case of a capsize. I sold her and got back most of my money too. (I built my own cat with the money so I''m a catamaran guy)

Hope this helps on your search

Brad


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here is my thought on the subject... I have never sailed a cat other than a small Hobie in Mexico, but you should consider what kind of sailing will you be doing?? Most cats are made to be floating condos, plenty of room, big decks and cabins for enjoyment and sitting at anchor. Will they capsize, sure they will, but so will a monohull. The reason a mono will stay up is a lot of lead at the bottom that cat does not have but that same weight makes the mono slower. If I was ocean crossing, I would go mono hull,if I was hopping around the Carribean from island to island that are in line of sight or just about it, with a lot of sitting at anchor enjoying a cool drink, then a cat might be the one.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

After reading this:

http://www.rina.org.uk/rfiles/IJSCT/Discuss/deakin.pdf

I can say that I understand Catamarans stability better.

Comparing Catamarans with Monohulls, Catamarans are much less prone to be capsized by a wave, but on the other hand they can be capsized by excessive wind, an impossible thing with a modern monohull.

Catamarans are also easier to pitch pole being the main risk factor (to capsize) the conditions where you can find big waves (heel)associated with strong or gustier winds.

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

whats up Paulo 

give us the real reasons you dislike cats so much .....

quote : 
capsized by excessive wind, an impossible thing with a modern monohull.
quote end 

I have no comment .... 
Are you trying to sell a monohull or what?

Thor


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Hi thor

I don''t dislike cats (only the fat ugly ones).
Fact is that three years ago I was even considering buying a Tri, one of those fast things that flirt with 20 knots of speed. I didn''t buy it cause it was a lot more expensive and marina costs were 1,5 higher. It was also a bit small for the family.

I posted the link to that paper because it is a superb study in catamaran stability, I have learned a lot with it and I thought It would be nice to share it.

And Thor, obviously it is impossible to capsize a modern cruiser monohull sail boat only by wind force (no waves). All of them have an AVS of more than 110º,most of them between 120 and 130 and a downflooding angle superior to 100º.

The boat can lie flat on the hull (90º) driven by wind force, but at this position the wind is not making any force on the sails (passing over them), so the boat will rise up again without capsizing.

Paulo


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

UNfortuantely in the real world, it is seldom a matter of "just" anything.
Witness the recent Sydney to Hobart race. Where one of the best monohulls in the world got all the way capsized (stayed that way for four days) and abbandoned, and eventually very expensively salvaged.

They are a cat.0 boat, abolsutely all the bells and whisteles and design specs for maximum safety in offshore racing. But they hit a sunfish with their keel at about 15 knots. Kept sailing for about 12 more hours with not a problem in the world...Until they tacked.

Sure, righting stability is important, but in the end, there is a wide pantheon of things waiting in the wings to surprise you and show you that what you had designed against ever happening actually can.

Sasha


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

windforce with no waves .... 

Thats Ice Sailing buddy and those babies indeed tip over once in a while ..lol

all way to many numbers Paulo, real life aint numbers, but situations mother nature throws at us, no engineer with all the numbers in hand will survirve the little quircks real life can dish out for us.
The model in the 10 year old test or is it 20 years old ? I forgot? has quite a sailplan on it, couldnt find the "numbers" of that anywhere. but I have to admit , got a little sleepy after a while reading it. 

I have no clue what the stability factor or whatever is of my boat. I know if it blows the boat will lean, if its leaning to much i need to put a reef in and change headsails , if it doesnt lean the reef comes out and something big needs to be attached to the pointy end

You can check it for me , its a j30 .... probably dangerous as hell ...lol 

lotsa fun though 

Thorsten


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

If you build something that has the greatest stability upside down it will always try to get there.Your job as the sailor is to try and stop it.I think that is all Paulo is trying to say.I do not even classify a boat that stays capsized in a storm without being holed a sailboat to begin with.Like I have said before comparing F1 racing cars to actual cars people drive is not a comparison.They have all the cutting edge technology but don`t hit a shopping cart in the parking lot,or you will be out of the race.


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## bombayduck (Dec 14, 2004)

Dman:
Yes the greatest stability of a catamaran may be upside down but the greatest stability of a monohull is resting on the bottom of the ocean! I think that cruising catamarans capsise about the same frequency that monohulls sink, given a equal number of boats in any sample. Most of the catamarans capsizes have been racing designed boats pushing the limits. Rarely does a cruising designed catamaran capsize. 
Brad


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

"I think that cruising catamarans capsize about the same frequency that monohulls sink" "rarely does a cruising designed catamaran capsize" I got it now ,monohulls do not sink because cruising cats do not capsize.Nice job.All I said was the greatest stability in a cat design, any cat design is upside down Period.Where you get your statistics with regards to capsize and sinking I would like you to post them so everyone would be more knowledgeable.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Brad:
Thanks for the post regarding the Catalac 8M. Thats exactly the sort of input I was looking for with the original post, hands on info about older, smaller cruising cats.
Did you live aboard by your self or with others? What is the storage situation and how would you rate the head and galley? What about sailing ability? 7,000 seems pretty hefty for a 27 ft cat. Did you sail to the Bahamas once or several times? Given the boat is in top shape, would you sail her to Bermuda?
I knew there was animosity between multis and monos, but I had no idea how much! Aesthetically I lean toward monohulls from the 30''s thru the 60''s because that''s my personal history, but I believe in having an open mind.
The best book on the subject I have found is "Multihull Seamanship" by Michael McMullen. I recommend it to anyone who has participated in this thread.
Gary


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## bombayduck (Dec 14, 2004)

GaryP

I lived aboard by myself but had various crew on my trips. It got a little crowded but in nice weather there was lots of room to lounge on deck to get that seperation that one needs in close quarters living. This catamaran, catalac8m, is not known for it''s windward ability. Still, I would tack through about 100 degrees. The head and galley were roomy with lots of storage. I did not sail this boat offshore other than to the Bahamas once and back but this particular boat had been cruised throughout the Carribean by a couple and being made in England, had been sailed across the Atlantic.
I would sail this boat to bermuda but would carry a parachute sea anchor to ride out a storm. My boat had a 10 foot dia. one but I had to use it.
I don''t have solid stats on the number of capsizes vs sinkings. No one does. These stats are just not available. If someone does I would be more than willing to change my opinion. My comments are based on my being involved in the sailing community and sailing on both monos and cats for the last 16 years. I have owned monos too. Just different strokes for different folks. Not better or worse, just different.
Another boat that you should look into is the Iriquois 30 by sailcraft. This catamaran has great windward ability with two center boards, but less room inside.It was designed as a racer cruiser. I saw several in the Bahamas. It can be had on the used boat market for about 25K.
Brad


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## bombayduck (Dec 14, 2004)

Correction: I did NOT have to use the parachute anchor.


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## bombayduck (Dec 14, 2004)

Another boat that you might be interested in is the Prout Snowgoose 35. It''s an old design but built strongly. Again, similar to the catalac8m but 35 foot long. They can be had on the market for around 50K. Most has a inboard diesel in a nacel with a outboard leg that raises up (same as on the current Gemini) The leg can be a maintenance problem and some have scrapped the diesel and leg altogether and added a Yamaha 25 high thrust or similar OB. These older cats (catalac, Prout, Iroquois) have depreciated to their lowest points and are actually starting to appreciate in value. 

Brad


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

I thought some here might find it interesting to learn that Tony Smith, builder of the Gemini cat and now a smaller Tel-Star tri, sailed with his son and another gent from New Jersey to Southampton, England non-stop in a new Gemini not too long ago, and has produced a video which played all day, each day at the London Boat Show. The heavy winds and seas they encountered (3 gales) were quite fascinating to watch from the cockpit of the Gemini, and it was disgustingly good fun to see the crew in their shirtsleeves behind the cockpit enclosure, and the crowds seemed to enjoy it. Anyone interested might want to contact them and see if the video is available as a sales promotional, or for rent.

Jack


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Brad,
Thanks for some good leads. I''ll to track down some of these craft in person.
The mono/multi decision is a knotty one. Good sailing,
Gary


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

if you are worried about a monohull sinking look at ETAPS (foam-filled, unsinkable; certified).

Also, for cats, I''d check out the new DOLPHINs from Brazil. Seem like a good value for the money.


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

Since no one here claims to be a naval architect I will quote a very experienced one with reguards to real offshore vessels. "Think of the people advertising yachts for offshore use,both multihulls and monohulls,which can not only be rolled by wave action but often can be capsized by wind alone.Since the owners of these vessels will be aboard them when they are lost(thus unlikely to complain)and the builders have already made their profits,where is the incentive toward seaworthiness?I am not known for my multihull designs,although I have done them.One reason is that when people ask for a quote and say that they want to use the vessel offshore I always ask them to acknowledge that the vessel is inherently unseaworthy""needless to say most people prefer to be lied to and ignore the risks they are taking" The word offshore means anywhere in the world.The reason we have so many different boats is that there are many different uses.It is where they are used,the term offshore applies.I wouldn`t even classify most cruise ships offshore vessels although they take them there.I have seen 800 foot container ships come into port after a storm with steel containers smashed in on top of the deck.Just one container is the size of most of our boats.I am talking about a deck that towers over the top of your mast and containers piled 6 high.You only think you know what offshore is all about.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Hi dman

I agree with that naval architect (tell me his name please) to what he says about monohulls, but regarding multihulls I find him a little farfetched.

A good ocean going multihull to be capsized by a wave offers a resistance 2 times bigger than a monohull of the same size, but of course, when capsized it will stay capsized. 

Multihulls can be capsized by excessive wind on the sails and because of that they require a lot more experience, good sense and seamanship to be safe at sea, in comparison with a good ocean going monohull.

Of course, as your Architect says: "needless to say most people prefer to be lied to and ignore the risks they are taking. The word offshore means anywhere in the world. The reason we have so many different boats is that there are many different uses. It is where they are used, the term offshore applies. I wouldn’t even classify most cruise ships offshore vessels although they take them there."

But I think this applies as much to multihulls as to monohulls. An ocean going monohull, if capsized will right itself up in less than a minute, but I have to say that the vast majority that are out there doing passages will not do that. Yes, most of them will right themselves up, but they will take between 3 and 5 minutes, and that will be too much for the ones that are not inside the boat.

What should be important is that every buyer should have full information on the stability and safety characteristics of the boat they are interested in and the fact is that they don''t. 

Ocean going boats are very expensive boats, so, like that Architect says, "people prefer to be lied" and buy that beautiful boat with nice interiors instead of buying by the same money a 15 year old ocean going boat and there is nothing wrong with that except if they intend to use that "nice boat" as a bluewater boat.

For the ones that think I am crazy, let me tell you what the RYA (Royal Yacht Association, probably the oldest and one of the most respected names in Yachting) is concerned with the matter:

"Just as it is mandatory for the fuel consumption of all new cars to be published so the RYA believes that stability information should also be available to a buyer of a boat."

Although you might think that I don’t like multihulls, I have to say that one of the boats that I have visited in the Dusseldorf boat show was the Dragonfly (a fast trimaran) and I have even talked with the (very enthusiastic) guys of the shipyard about a sail trial (perhaps in spring) on the Dragonfly 1200.

I guess that if I could, I would be very tempted to have one.
The boat can point to the wind like a monohull and it is twice faster. She has the interior space of a 32ft (and I can live with that) but because she can do passages in half the time, she only needs half the carrying capacity. 

Azores in three or four days, an Atlantic passage in a week or so, would expand a lot my cruising grounds and I would love that, not to mention the fun.

I believe that sailed with good sense, it is a safe boat, at least enough for me, and I take safety very seriously.

The only thing I really don’t like in that boat is the price. It costs 350 000 euros, without taxes and options. I guess that the final price will be around 500 000 Euros, and I can not afford that...but that boat makes me wonder...

Take a look at the site and see the panoramic view.

http://www.dragonfly.dk/


Paulo


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

Paulo check out his website macnaughtongroup.com Really great guy that has time to help sailors.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Dman, it looks like you like classical boats.

Take a look at this one (and see the movie).

http://www.marieholm.nl/uk/zeiljacht1.html

I can assure you that in reality it is even nicer.

well I am a strange guy, I like this one as much as I like the Dragonfly, of course, for completely different reasons. LOL

The AVS of this one is 180º, LOL, and you can not imagine how cosy and beatiful her interior is.

Paulo


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

Paulo,Now that`s what I`m talking about.Very nice boat,a functional piece of art.Pride in craftsmanship everywhere.In my opinion a great boat to paint should also be a great boat to sail.I grew up around ocean going vessels that looked odd to inland guys but they just have the look that reminds me of saltwater.Even an old tug does it for me.When it comes to water it is all cruise for me,just being out there and enjoying nature.Like the old ketches too ,more strings to play with.Sailing is my meditation,got to sign out here getting too pumped up with my rambling on.


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## jasonedu (Feb 3, 2005)

Everything is a tradeoff when it comes to choosing a boat - there is no right or wrong.

multihull float, monohulls sink. personally id prefer to be with an upturned cat then a monohull at the bottom of the ocean.

the other thing noone has touched on here is speed, meaning less time spent at sea. You can give me the safest monohull in the world and its extra stability is not going to make up for the fact that it will probably be out on the ocean for up to 30% longer. check out the timings for the latest ARC and youll notice a cruising outremer up there with the racing monohulls. 

Speed also gives you more options when trying to avoid rough weather. Another important safety feature imho.

i also feel a lot better being able to live a normal life on a cat then spending my life at 30 degrees. Leaves the crew in a much better state when its needed.

yeah you can overload a cat and this can be dangerous. You need to buy the boat to fit your payload.

This sums it up for me. classic video:

http://www.gunboat.info/video/safari.html


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Gunboat 62...I love that boat.

Carbon/Kevlar, exclusive( 3 or 4 built ), fast and save.

For the ones that want to know more about that boat you can read a test in the February 2005 edition of "Yachting World".

They don''t publish the price, but you can rent one in the US (max 6 people) for $16.500 a week (that gives you an idea).

They say also that all the boats sold are crewed by professionals.

In the Gunboat site they define the boat as: 
“Unrelated to charter yachts and floating condominiums, she is a pure catamaran spirit, designed and built for demanding sailors who expect nothing but the best"

It seems that they don''t like the type of catamarans widely used in charter, the ones they call floating condos.

I don''t like them either (I call them Fatcats and in my opinion they are not very good sailing boats) but I am very interested in one of the Gunboat new projects, a Gunboat 37, even if it will probably be too expensive.

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Gary, I hope this is more like what you want to hear. We''ve had a Gemini 3000 for four years and absolutely love it! It is wonderful to cruise on, comfortable, roomy and reasonably fast. We''ve been to the Bahamas, around The Keys and up the west coast of Florida. I can''t answer the "some offshore abilities" question, I don''t have enough experience. I do know of a 3000 that''s gone from The Keys to Beleze safely. I''ll finish with a quote from the multihulls group by Chuck Kanter:
"So far in my career I have surveyed well over 100 Gemini. Some so old they do not have hard tops, some so new they have not yet lost that "new boat" smell. I have seen owners abuse them in the most outrageous manor. I have seen them so loaded with equipment and gear they have practically no underdeck clearance. I have seen them with the watertight compartments filled to the brim because the forth, fifth or sixth owner had not a clue they were even there! I have been called on divorce cases, sinkings, strandings, collisions, repossessions, insurance surveys, etc. What I would like to add to this thread is the remarkable strength I have found in the boats. Yes, from time to time I sure find quality control issues. Yes, the finish is not up to fancy standards. Would I "recommend" this boat for an Atlantic crossing? NO!
Would I sail one across myself? IN A HEARTBEAT!"

Tom 
PS I always get a chuckle out of the "monohulls are safer offshore because they can recover from a 100 something degree knockdown and right themselves." Yeah, if completely prepared, no open companion way, haches, vents, lockers.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks, Tom, for the Gemini report. This re-enforces positive opinions I have encountered regarding Gemini build quality. Now all I need to do is wangle a ride.
On another note: do you sail with a dog? and have you taught the dog to relieve itself while aboard?
Thanks, Gary


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

2 labs actually and no they don''t like going on board. We''ve only done one long trip with them along. We went up the west coast of Florida. With boards and rudders up the Gemini will motor in 2 feet of water so we''d just find a beach and give the dogs a break.


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## jackstee (Feb 21, 2005)

Hi Guy''s. 
Got to get in on this.
Ex RN, tought and raced dingies from childhood.
Last boat ( always had something) Trident 24,drop keel. Built in 50''s, same age as me.
First owner sailed to South Africa, I bought here in Abu Dhabi in 87 and took here to Turkey. A brillant boat,she was capable of anything.
But, the other half liked being on her,liked when we got to the destination, cotpit table up, cheese & bickies,wine and Dire Straights.
Me, just love sailing, 30 plus degrees,foot on opposite cotpit seat pure bliss.

So we spent 3 years building a cat.
Then contract ended , cat in one country, us allong way away, in another.

Now back on line after a few difficult years luve to spend half an hour now and again searching Heavenly Twins and reading about happy owners.
Got to get me one


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## jackstee (Feb 21, 2005)

Hi again
Sorry lost the plot.
sailed some small cats, as well as the one we built ( for one day ).
Capsized during my first race, typical blunder for monohull sailer. Creaming along and got a gust, let the main out and headed into the wind. WRONG. This speeds you up and digs the lee hull into the water. Over you go.

Learn a couple of sailing rulls about cats before you buy one.

PS.
The Heavenly Tins are a great small cat.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

garyp, that is an interesting article about catamarans design:

"Evaluating a cruising catamaran"
on http://www.sailbuyersguide.com/articles/boatpages/EvaluatingACruisingCatamaran.cfm


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Paulo: Your 2002 Route du Rhum statements were not correct. I don''t know why no one noticed. The multihulls that crashed were all ORMA 60''s, trimarans designed to sail on one ama with the main hull out of the water at over 30 knots, singlehanded. To compare them to cruising cats is ... well, you get the picture. Lots of monos failed to finish that race as well, dismastings and lots of broken boats. There are enough misconceptions out there about cruising cats that we don''t need to add any more. 
Tom


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I have said:

"I remember that in the 2002 "Route du Rhum" (transatlantic race) four 60ft cats capsized, (I know that they were race cats, but ocean going big race cats and by the way, none of the monohull capsized ) and they were skippered by some of the best sailors around. In fact could it be me or you, it made no difference, without sails , 60/70 knots of wind on the mast was all that was necessary to capsize them."

And that is all true.

They are big ocean racing cats, 60ft ORMA boats. ORMA means "Ocean Racing Multihulls Association". 

A racing cat is much more stable comparing with a cruising cat.

They only go with "the main hull out of the water " if they run too much sail. 
In that storm they carried very little sail or no sail at all.

About the performance (and safety) of the multihulls against monohulls in very bad weather conditions, like in that race, some more facts:

from cruising world magazine:

"Here’s a partial list of the damage report for the 2002 Rhum race: Fifteen of the 18 trimarans in the event retired because of capsize, collision, a dismasting, or because they simply started to break apart."

That race begun with 59 boats , 33 monohulls and 26 multihulls. 
Monohulls (33) retired from the race 11.
Multihulls (26) retired from the race 18.


"Kingfisher Devours Cats - Who says Two Hulls Are Better Than One?"

http://www.caribbeanracing.com/artman/publish/article_168.shtml


and dogboater... I do like fast cats, but things are what they are...

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

3 nice pictures of how these boats are sailed.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/nigel_irens.htm

The ORMA 60 rules don''t specify tris but beam is unlimited so tris take better advantage of this than cats. They are absolutely the formula one of sailboats, no comparison to a passenger vessel is possible. Cruising catamarans almost without exception have very conservative rigs. There just aren''t a lot of examples out there of cruising catamarans getting knocked over. There are over 800 Gemini built, sailing millions of miles and I''m only aware of 2 stories of people sailing them over. I''m sure there are more but it doesn''t happen very often. Read Chuck Kanter''s latest book, it pretty well destroys the myth of capsizing a cruising catamaran. During the 1979 Fastnet disaster 2 Prout cats were shadowing the fleet, not allowed to enter. Both were fine with one skipper calling it merely "ghastly weather for sailing". 
JMHO, Tom


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Tom said:


"There just aren''t a lot of examples out there of cruising catamarans getting knocked over. There are over 800 Gemini built, sailing millions of miles and I''m only aware of 2 stories of people sailing them over. I''m sure there are more but it doesn''t happen very often."


I agree with you. 

Of course it is also true that there are not a lot of examples of ocean going monohulls being knocked over. And that is also true that a multihull capsized stays capsized and a true ocean monohull will not stay capsized.

All is relative, and I believe that the Gemini are good cats with a good safety margin.

Do you know the Seawind cat? I also like that one. They say the boat can make 40º to the wind. I would like to see that. If it is true, it is really impressive.

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Unlike Bumfuzzle here''s a site done by a couple of sailors on a Seawind 1000:
http://www.instantweb.com/s/siudzinski/

As to how well the Seawind points, I can''t answer that. As a general rule cats with fixed keels like the Seawind don''t sail as high as a boat with dagger or center boards. While cruising I have yet to be passed by a similar sized monohull on any point of sail. Those that have passed me in light air were all motor sailing. I am aware that there are lots of fast 30'' monos out ther that could blow by me, just not those cruising which is what we''re talking about. On the down side (for my boat at least) really beating is not fun. It''ll pound pretty good, slow down and speed up quickly and in general make you pay attention to all the stuff that you normally don''t stow. Since you have to stow everything on a mono no matter what I guess you wouldn''t have stuff flying around.
Paulo, you''ve changed the definition again, now it''s "true ocean monohull" to survive a knock down. I still maintain that there are lots of monos out there that wouldn''t survive or recover from a knockdown. And a fair number that sink very quickly. All it takes is a failed thruhull, stuffing box, hit something and get holed. Thousands of pounds trying to pull the boat under scares me soooo much more than capsizing my boat that I can''t put it in words.
Hope this is''t taken as a rant but jmho on affordable cats doing a little offshore work.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Tom, I am not a fundamentalist and I have already said that I like fast Cats. I entered this discussion when somebody had said that "it was almost impossible to capsize a cruising cat" and what I have said has to do with this statement that I have considered vastly exaggerated.

I was curious to see if you are right about the incidence rate of capsizing accidents between monos and cats (of course you have to considerer a correction factor, because there are many monohulls to each cat). 

I have made a quick search on the net (only last years), using the key words "capsized, rescue and sailboat” to see what happened.

About monohulls, the ones that capsized, or stayed capsized were dinghies( not considering racing ones that capsized when they lost the keel).

On the other hand, I have found plenty of notices that have made its way to the press about capsized cruising cats (not considering racing ones). And, opposing your personal risk assessment, there are a lot more rescues due to capsizing than the ones due to collision, or sinking, even if they also are reported.

Most of the notices are from 2004. I guess that old news are wiped out of the net, otherwise I would find a lot more regarding other years. Take a look:

http://piersystem.com/external/index.cfm?cid=443&fuseaction=EXTERNAL.docview&documentID=55660

http://www.torresen.com/sailing/content_archives/000827.php

http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/FirstPage/article5.htm

http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/FirstPage/article5.htm

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-dops_pr_newsroom-press-releases-release.htm?mcga_news_id=2189&month=4&year=2003

I believe that ocean cats have a good safety margin, but I consider also that ocean monohulls are safer.

Main difference (in my opinion) is that an ocean monohull can take a lot more "errors" made by the skipper and need a lot less attention. The boat can take care of himself (almost) no matter what. With a Cat you have to pay a lot more attention to the wind, to the sail the boat carries, regarding the wind. It is not only the speed that is bigger; everything happens a lot faster in a cat, including capsizing.

Tom, I hope that you don''t think I don''t like cats (I intend to take a test sail in a Dragonfly this spring, and for that I have to travel 6000kms), or even that I dislike cats. 

I believe in a fair evaluation of sailboats and I believe that there is not a perfect sailing boat, but a right boat to each sailor, and they can be and are very different boats.

I love diversity.

Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

it IS almost impossible to capsize a cruising cat. 



from your 5 examples above collected from 3 years around the whole world .... 

example 1. ok great lakes are tricky ...

eaxample 2 another great lakes THIS WAS A RACE , again Paulo you seem to deliberately scare people with racing incidents ...

example 3 and 4 are the same incident on a booze cruise catamarane in hawaii ...

example 5 ... well maybe 

From your 5 examples I can only view 2 as being valid for comparison .... 

Now you have enough time on your hands to find the other 2 incidents in the last 5 years .. when you done I will spend 10 minutes to find 50 sunken monohulls ....



it IS almost impossible to capsize a cruising cat. 

Thor


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

Never say never. It has happened, and (unfortunately) it will happen again.

Since there are far more monohulls than there are cats, one would expect to find more monos capsized and sunk than cats. That proves nothing.

Monos get knocked down more often than sailors like to admit, but they usually come back at least once. The same isn''t true for cats.

~ Happy trails and sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Eric The Red sailed his 18'' junk rigged homebuilt mono hull across the Atlantic several times. What does that mean? Using examples of boats crossing oceans is a bogus way to prove anything.

Do calculations on windage and see what speeds will kite your multihull and what those same winds do to a monohull. Think about waves that have whitecaps big enough to throw any 50'' boat on it''s beam ends like a pingpong ball. Which boat type will survive being continually pounded with whitecap lips 6'' thick or being tossed on beam ends without capsize or damage. I''ve seen waves like that from the deck of freighters off the east coast USA and they DO exist in ocean sailing. The question is can you stay out of this weather?


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Thor, I can not resist. lol!

Here are some more:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/Loy/USNI.html

http://www.hawaiiocean.com/HOI_Archives/HOI_2000-06/#Casulaties

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Rescues/8_5_00.htm

http://abc.net.au/nt/news/200502/s1306679.htm

http://www.amsa.gov.au/about_amsa/Media_releases/2002/2002_jun_3.asp

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw105968_20041020.htm

They include sinking catamarans, all cruiser boats.

I also would like to quote a well known (and responsible) cruiser catamaran manufacturer (good cats) who says in his advertising, to help people choose the right sail boat, about multihull safety:



"Capsize is rare with well sailed cruising multihulls...The important factor, as with a car, is that the degree of risk is up to the driver/skipper. Drive or sail too fast for the conditions and the risk of a crash is higher. The decision is yours. It is not taken away from you by a heavy keel below, making it impossible to go fast. Nobody seriously suggests weighing ...a sailboat ... to limit performance, just because a few may not have the skill or maturity to sail a fast type of craft safely. 

Thus, like a car, a multihull has the capability of very high speeds when desired, and the risk factor can consequently be higher.

In general, the risk factor will only begin to increase when boat speed exceeds 15 knots while reaching, or about 8 knots to windward. 

Capsize thus must always be considered as a possibility, even if a remote one, and be prepared for. In this regard, there should be a special safety compartment that is accessible from both above and below for storing safety gear that will be immediately available if capsized."




I would say this is common sense and that was precisely what I meant when I said in a previous post:


"Main difference (in my opinion) is that an ocean monohull can take a lot more "errors" made by the skipper and need a lot less attention. The boat can take care of himself (almost) no matter what. With a Cat you have to pay a lot more attention to the wind, to the sail the boat carries, regarding the wind. It is not only the speed that is bigger; everything happens a lot faster in a cat, including capsizing."


Paulo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Paulo, You can laugh out loud if you want to but your examples are worthless. First we were talking about small CRUISING catamarans for limited offshore use. Not one of your links has any info on what the boat is or what they were doing at the time. As to monos being more forgiving, if you''re in conditions that could put you or your vessel in danger, you better be paying attention. If I''m trying to go fast in conditions that I should be thinking about reefing, I''m really paying attention. Yes, you could probably capsize any cat, but if you''re in a situation where that could happen you better be aware of it or you don''t belong out there! General rule of thumb, cats reef for the lulls, monos reef for the puffs. The naysayers out there all seem to feel that cruising cats flip like a Hobie 16. The Gemini 105 is reported to right itself from 85 degrees, and I believe my 3000 is close to that. We went out fishing in the Gulf Stream on a day of small craft advisories (6~10'' seas) as much to see how the boat liked it as to fish. We saw a few sport fishermen (50'' Vikings) out getting the crap beat out of them. Motorsailing with a small jib only, about 40 degrees to the wind. Very comfortable, nobody sick. My wife has a nice dolphin on so I roll up the jib, slow down and am watching the other poles, My friend is on the stern with the gaff, in the excitement of the moment I get beam too, look over my wife''s shoulder at a breaking about 10 footer. Before I could say anyting to anyone we simply rolled right over it. No one else even noticed! I gained a lot of respect for the seaworthiness of my little boat that day. Another story and then I''m done. Last May We went from Key Largo to Boca Grand on Floridas west coast, about 210 miles. All of April and May 2004 blew like stink out of the east, no one fished, people I know blew out sails, nasty 15~30 seemed like forever. Every mono we saw was motoring or motorsailing with reefed sails. All the cats we saw were sailing. Second day out is a broadreach, reefed main and genny. We''re doing 8~10 kts comfortably in a short steep 4 foot chop. I had to steer as the auto pilot couldn''t keep up and all I could think about was what a handfull a mono would be in these conditions, one broach after another. Four days later we''re headed back beating into the same conditions and pass 2 groups of 25~35 foot monos all motorong or motorsailing in the same conditions we were sailing in while my wife read and our labs slept. We listened to them talking about how horrible it was out and that they''d given up on crossing the stream. Cruising on a cat is so superior to a mono there''s no comparison. I''ll trade the slight possibility of capsize for the comfort, safety and seaworthyness of a cat anyday. Now if the US just had more used boats to pick from.


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

Billpjr I guess no one has an answer to your question.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

dman,

Multihulls go faster. In theory they can spend less time in bad weather. In real life, just like Bumfuzzle''s experience (which is major typical and not an exception), they don''t point well enough in anything but silky smooth seas to make the trip shorter.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

dman,

Multihulls go faster. In theory they can spend less time in bad weather. In real life, just like Bumfuzzle''s experience (which is major typical and not an exception), they don''t point well enough in anything but silky smooth seas to make the trip shorter.


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