# Does AC really care about growing the sport?



## Blewtooth (Nov 21, 2018)

The Prada Cup races we're all available on YouTube and I really enjoyed them.
Unbelievable technology and machines.
I thought they were really exciting.
I was really disappointed when I couldn't find a full race when the AC started only the highlights on YouTube and if you want to watch the full race you have to pay Hulu.
I have been disappointed in the past years with baseball as it seems they've sold everything to pay for View and it seems to me like they are hurting the sport by making it only available to the affluent and since sailboat racing always seemed to have the stigma of just Rich guys wearing Blazers and Topsiders I think it would be a lot more fun for Americans to see it popularized for the common Folk in the USA.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

It seems to depend on where you are. We have it on NBC Sports with our cable package but I don't think all systems have it. An equally big issue is that the Cup races with these super fast boats have generally not been interesting so far. Almost no lead changes - whoever wins the start is basically winning the race. And because of the way the boats come into the starting box there are very few pre-start manuevers. I suspect that is to keep the boats safely separated at the higher speeds but it does not make for exciting racing. Put that together with the lack of sail handling and you can almost stop watching the race after the start. 

The speed is very very impressive but a whole lot seems to have gotten sacrificed for it. I am not suggesting that we go back to gaff-rigged schooners, but a lot of the sailing seems to have gone out of this.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Very cool to see those boats sail at speed but not cool to see careful racing, they can't get to close. the boat are to fragile and can't sail in a range of conditions so it is boring after the start. like watching someone else playing a video game. boats are not close enough to stay in the same wind only inches away from each other. skippers know what happens if they get close and touch at that speed. and there are peoples lives and more important TV dollars a stake. when any racing is not close people will loose interest. they took all the physical aspects out of the sailing, never even see the trimer adjust a sail or even the grinder wipe the sweet off. have to wonder if those guys in the pit are even real people. all they ever show is the skipper moving the wheel back and forth a 1/4" and they call that sailing. Call it driving a boat with sails by computer control but don't call it Sailing


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## Chas H (Sep 6, 2013)

I am fascinated by the AC races and all of the technology involved. I would like to see more pre-start maneuvering, but I understand the safety factors considered. No, it's not like club racing on Thursday nights, but I enjoy the sophistication of the most esoteric race in the world, the Vendee Globe being a close second.
-CH


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Frankly, my dear, ..........


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

danvon said:


> you can almost stop watching the race after the start


Tell that to the crew of American Magic. 

I think the commercialization of the event has been to defray costs, not make money, so I don't think they care much about maximizing viewership. If 10 people would pay to watch it, rather than 100 watch it for free, they go the pay route. (I'm assuming) There has been more recent graphical coverage of the races that has been excellent, IMO. Good enough that a non-sailor could pick up what's going on, after watching a few races.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't care much about the AC. I don't race and never have. The AC seems to be a billionaire's game. Boats are so high tech what they do only relates to the rest of the sailing world because the event takes place on the water and wind is what makes the boats move and they seem to have the same rules of engagement that basic sailboat racing does.

It also seems that the amazing high tech these boats use is hardly impacting recreational sailing... aside from some electronics/software perhaps.

A fair amount of people seem to enjoy watching competition and races.... as it demands high skill and daring. 

Extreme stuff is "in"... but has little appeal to me. Things like this, high fashion etc... supposedly trickle down to the commoners and essentially are "for the elite". I don't expect to see foils on cruising boats in the foreseeable future... do you?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I doubt there will be foils on cruising boats, like the AC. There might be foils that provide some lift to reduce drag, rather than escape the water entirely, which would also necessitate a different hull design. Of course runabout tenders may have foils.

I'll bet their work with composites is informative too. 

The impact is not whether they exactly duplicate the features in the cruising or beer can racing world, but what they learn from pushing the limits, that informs other innovation. Anytime anything is built, it advances our understanding and reach.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I confess I'm watching, but I'm not sure I can stay with it. After the initial, wow, they are fast, look at the deck sweeping main, how bout the helmet guys ducking down in those little cubbies, wonder who's adjusting the foil, is that speed for real, what exactly is that hydraulic system they are charging up with the grinders and what is it connected to.....and apparent wind takes on a whole new meaning when your boat speed is 30 knots and the true wind is 8...

I find myself wishing for a strategic race. IMHO, except for the start, these boats turn the contest into a drag race. Win the start, unless the other guys boat breaks or they flub up big time, win the race. Hardly any tacking duels, not a lot of looking for pressure differences, boats that would break if they were put in the "real" ocean,.....I find myself walking away to do something else after one boat or another gets 100 Meters + on the other. I enjoy the start. Lots of strategy there. After that, don't flub up if you are winning, or hope the other guy flubs up if you aren't. Luckily the races are merciful short. 

I'm sure there's an audience for this, but I'd be more interested if it was slower and more strategic. Yea, I'm old...I liked the 12's. But I liked the Volvo too, seeing a tacking duel in Newport after 3000+ miles of racing to me was worth the effort to be there in person. Not as fast, but not slow either. 

I'm sure some would say 12 meters, that's like watching a turtle race, but I'd rather watch turtles than rabbits, if the outcome if obvious after the first few hops .


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> I doubt there will be foils on cruising boats, like the AC. There might be foils that provide some lift to reduce drag, rather than escape the water entirely, which would also necessitate a different hull design. Of course runabout tenders may have foils.
> 
> I'll bet their work with composites is informative too.
> 
> The impact is not whether they exactly duplicate the features in the cruising or beer can racing world, but what they learn from pushing the limits, that informs other innovation. Anytime anything is built, it advances our understanding and reach.


I don't doubt that material technology is advanced by the designers of AC boats. And I don't doubt that electronic technology is advanced. I think both of these do have trickle down to the recreational/cruising market.

++++

I have lived through some remarkable changes/development in technology as it relates to boating... the type I would be sailing.

I can also say that for me it seems to be approaching a point of diminishing returns. So... as far as useful "information" ... I am all for more precise local environmental data... wind, depth, speed and so on.. I have boat speed to .01 precision... I can't even imagine how I would benefit from .001. precision.

I do see even better "displays" coming from tech and that would be useful. How about eyeglasses which displayed the data on THEM and no on the instrument displays? Of course formatted by an app on your smart phone. I would love that...

I see better fabric and sails coming from this... can we afford it though?

Sailing seems to be a good balance between skill and technology. AC does nothing for "skill" as I see it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> How about eyeglasses which displayed the data on THEM and no on the instrument displays?


The real cool trick here would be synthetic vision through the sails themselves. Wouldn't be too tough, with cameras on the mast and deck. A little geometry and one's glasses could display the view on the other side of the sails. I think someone recently gave this a try, if not for sailboats specifically. It's all coming.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

If the main data ... was semi transparent on your glasses... it would be very handy for hand steering and trimming... and when you are below decks you would be able see the conditions as well.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

Tell that to the crew of American Magic. 

I did say "almost."


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## MoonBeamEstate (Jan 1, 2021)

danvon said:


> Put that together with the lack of sail handling and you can almost stop watching the race after the start.
> 
> The speed is very very impressive but a whole lot seems to have gotten sacrificed for it. I am not suggesting that we go back to gaff-rigged schooners, but a lot of the sailing seems to have gone out of this.


My exact thought, I watched on YouTube and It was usually over after the start. Does not seem to be as true now with the run for the cup. Could have just be the boat match up in the elimination rounds.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

MoonBeamEstate said:


> My exact thought, I watched on YouTube and It was usually over after the start. Does not seem to be as true now with the run for the cup. Could have just be the boat match up in the elimination rounds.


I can recall plenty of old-school AC races that were the same. Most of the time one boat is faster than the other. That will never change in a development class like the AC. If you want true match racing where it all comes down to crew work and tactics, the only way you are going to get that is if the boats are identical one-design. There is plenty of that kind of racing out there, it just isn't high profile like the AC is.

I watched most of the Prada Cup and America's cup racing and I quite enjoyed it. There was still plenty of traditional racing tactics at play. The prestarts were exciting, the close crossings were interesting, there was plenty of discussion over whether to cover or cross, protect the favored side, lee-bow or loose cover etc. Unfortunately some of the more interesting on board communication was drowned out by the inane chatter of the commentators. They are extremely fast boats, but there are still plenty of traditional yacht racing elements at play.

As to what the AC contributes to sailing, I think aside from the obvious technological developments that will trickle down to mainstream racing, it also raises the profile of sailing among non-sailors. I can guarantee you there were more non sailors watching these boats than ever watched the old 12s crawl around the course. The speed is thrilling to watch even if you don't understand the nuances. With the 12 meters it was all about the nuances, hence it was mostly watched by enthusiasts.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


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## Explorer (Oct 22, 2014)

Much of the AC technology will take generations to filter down, a lot of it probably won't filter down ever. Some of it is a refinement of existing concepts. Some of the modelling will be in the hands of naval architects quite soon,

Foils are already appearing on production racing yachts. eg Beneteau Figaro. Beneteau Figaro 3 | Beneteau Yachts | Flagstaff Marine Australia

You can buy foiling kits for lasers. FOILSZ - Laser Dinghy Foiling Kit

From memory foiling on sailing boats started in the moth class in Australia, but then that might be that I didn't know what was happening elsewhere in the world, "Initially Ian Ward in Sydney, Australia developed the first centerline foiling Moth which demonstrated that sailing on centerboard and rudder foils alone was feasible. " Wikipedia, Sailing hydrofoil

Personally, I will watch some of the PC and AC for free, but not pay for it.


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## DougH (Aug 9, 2020)

Explorer said:


> Much of the AC technology will take generations to filter down, a lot of it probably won't filter down ever. Some of it is a refinement of existing concepts. Some of the modelling will be in the hands of naval architects quite soon,
> 
> Personally, I will watch some of the PC and AC for free, but not pay for it.


You might want to watch the 2007 AC, 7 races all free to watch on YouTube. about 27 minutes per race. I just did and found it to be the best white knuckle match racing I have ever seen. I may watch it all again, it was so entertaining. The races were definitely not "over at the start".

-Doug


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