# How old is too old for a wood boat?



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I am considering buying a boat planked in 1958. Pitchpine on Oak, Copper rivets. Seller claims the planking is "perfect." Is that too old for a wood boat? Let me know your experiences, because the price is right, and the boat looks beautiful and well maintained.


----------



## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

You don't buy a wood boat, you marry one. It is that type of commitment. Get a surveyor involved and one that knows wood boats.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Oh you poor smitten fool.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Depends...some old ones are still in good shape..

some are not..

here a few old woodys...


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I am not a certified surveyor of wooden boats but I would suggest that any wooden boat that has not been re-planked in 50 years is well overdue - no matter what kind of fasteners were used. 
As Bubb has suggested, this is not the kind of boat you just buy and sail off on; it is a boat that you marry - big time. 
If you like the wooden boat 'ethos' then go for it you crazy man! You will never be poorer or happier!
Enjoy.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I happen to know first hand a thing or two about wood boats. 
Here are some facts.
All traditionally built wood boots are in some stage of rotting. The only question is how far it has progressed.
A plank can look perfect and be beautiful but the fastener holding it to the rib may be almost gone. 
The plank may be fine and the fastener may be fine but the rib is hollowed out in a groove only visible from the plank side of the rib.
All older wood boats have to be refastened. When was yours last refastened. If never check the fasteners. There is a lot of dead wood in the stern and stem. It likes to rot there. It likes to rot in the bilge, especially around the keel boats.
The only way to survey a wood boat is to remove a plank.
I would recommend at least two. Make one of them a garboard plank.
No I'm not kidding. If the couple hundred dollars or lack of skill prevents you from removing the planks and replacing them you have no clue as to what you are getting involved in. Removing a plank and replacing it is the wood boat equivalent to changing the oil in your car. If the idea scares you, you are not ready for a wood boat. 
If the boat is old enough and you keep it long enough you will replace every stick of original wood.
You didn't mention the size. If it is 20' with everything visible you may be able to figure out what you are getting. If it is a 35' yacht you have to take some things apart to find out what is inside.
Wood can last for hundreds of years with little loss of strength as long as it is kept dry and protected from the sun. This is unfortunately not the environment of a boat.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

You did say rivets not nails so maybe your boat is small. If so you should be able to see most everything and the the risk is small too. I was commenting on larger wood boats.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It's not too old for a wooden boat, particularly if the boat hs been in salt water rather than fresh. They tend to last longer in salt water as long as they have not been through the Caribbean and acquired teredo worms.

You should expect to see some indication that repair work has been done to the boat.

You mention that the planking is pitch pine. This could indicate that the boat was built in the northeast and was not a luxury craft. It's not so common to see it used anymore - some is grown in Central America but it's not quite the same stuff as we grew here in North America.

Go look at the boat. If she is out of the water and there are slight gaps between the planks in some places do not be unduly alarmed, as they swell considerably when they get wet. They need to be caulked on a regular basis though and doing so is a bit of an art form as you need to get just the right amount of oakum or horsehair or whatever you choose to use into the seam.

When you are first looking, take a car key and press lightly on the wood to get an idea of the strength of it. Don't leave marks on the boat, but if the vendor has indicated that there is nothing wrong with the craft, and if a gentle push on your key manages to bury the key in one of the frames - don't feel too guilty about it. The vendor has not been honest. 

If you are going to buy and maintain a wooden boat, you need to be willing to invest a lot of time and patience. If you are willing to do so then it's great. The wooden boats are floating pieces of history and it's important that we preserve them properly and maintain their authenticity. But don't underestimate the amount of work that it takes to do that.

Realise that there is no such thing as a wooden boat that does not take on water to some extent. Usually it's not a big problem, but you're always going to have something in the bilges and pumps become more important.

Good Luck !


----------



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

So far everyone here has given you the good advice on wood boats . That having been covered , let me give you the bad advice . First let me make clear that I know next to nothing about boats compared to most in here . I did however buy a 40 foot cutter that's 76 years old last year & have been on the water since that day . Now she does have some issues , but given that I'm pushing 60 , I'm sure she'll outlast me . There are some intangibles in regards to wood boats though you want to know about . They have souls . I can't be more sincere when I tell you that . They will also speak to you & tell you what they want if you will listen . No one is more surprised then me to discover that . Everyone talks about the work & the bother . So what else are you going to do that's more spiritually uplifting in life ??? Why would you not be willing to give an old gal a little loving care that's willing to give so much back . Water in the bildge ?? Who care about a little water in the bildge . I find the sound of the bildge pump coming on every now & again comforting & reassuring . Someone above in this thread pointed out their historical value . That's true too . They do need to be preserved . My hope is to leave the Skipjack better then she came to me & when she goes to my son & I expect no less from him . Hell...pull her out of the water & go through her tapping the whole hull not looking towards finding " fault" but with a mind to identifying where you can give healing care . You say she looks good , well maintained , & the price is right ??? Say I do & let the marriage begin . Age is not an issue with a wood boat . Her care though is of paramount importance .


----------



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Well... the unfortunate twist of this tale is that the boat is sold. I inquired about the ad, and it was taken down without a response. C'est la vie... 

but 27 is a little big anyway


----------



## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

"how old is old enough for a wood boat?" I'd say if your thirty you're old enough to know better!


----------



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

haha....Captain Force....That's the funniest thing I've heard today .


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Wait, I'm 47, my wooden boat is 40, and we're going to sea in the spring.


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Kjango,
Points well made about the 'soul' of an older sailboat. I would add that 'classic plastic' boats also have a 'soul' but just not quite as deep as your 'Skipjack' with its period pieces. My 'classic plastic' Tartan 27' from 1967 requires work but a lot less then the equivalent sized wooden hulled boat from the same era. 
Your 'Skipjack' got you from the North East down to the Chessy and has proved herself both beautiful and functional. I am just going to guess that she has had all her planks re-fastened once in her lifetime. If not, that is something you should be looking into when you do haul out in the spring. Don't get me wrong, I love wooden boats but I get enough of a workout with my plastic hull (11 years younger then me) and all her systems and rigging that I am happy enough to just admire boats like yours (rather then own them). 
Classic lines of older boats just can't be beat in my book though.
Cheers.


----------



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Morning CalabD,
You know I'm not really an advocate either way regarding wood vs glass . I think maybe the trick for anyone is finding what suits them . I can't take any credit for being smart in that arena either . When I was in the middle of implementing my escape plan last year I had pretty much decided on a Southern Cross 31 . The Skipjack had been on my short list & for some reason I kept coming back to her . The critical mass deciding factor had nothing to do with glass vs wood . I got taken back to court for the 7th final settlement in the desolution of my now infamous 14 month marriage & half my buget disappeared under color of law 2 years after my divorce was " final " . Who knows how the Southern Cross would have worked out . I am not where I am today from being smart & calulating , but by the luck of circumstance . Having said that though , I think the Skipjack is a great fit . Interestingly enough I just got a call from the previous owner last week & he just bought a 31 foot Southern Cross . It's too funny really . He sold the Skipjack to appease his family who was pushing him out of the boat under the guise he was getting old & they were worried about him . Well...I guess they weren't appeased for long so the old guy just decided hell with em & bought another boat . Anyway....the boat he bought is in MD . so we sorta have a plan if I can make it to meet there in the Spring & sail both boats back to Onset together . He says I'll have to go slow so he can keep up . The guy is a prince among men so if I can make the trip I'll be proud to " go slow ". Anyway.....wood ....glass.....who cares.....the importent thing I think is to go with what speaks to you . Thanks for the kind sentiments you expressed in your post . Have a good one.....Jim


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I would like to second the importance of re-fastening the planks. Several years ago on the Chesapeake, there was a charter fishing boat(wooden) out of Point Lookout that was lost due to the planking opening up and several people were lost. The boat sank immediately. This was of course in late fall when the water temp was very cold and I believe that it was blowing a bit so it was choppy.


----------



## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

"There is but a plank between a sailor and eternity".
-Thomas Gibbons


----------



## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I would second much of what Kjango said. After a certain point buying a boat is not a logical decision. How many times times have you heard someone talk about how a boat "speaks to them"?

When you walk down the dock or dingy away from a mooring do you glance back over your shoulder for one last look? Are you content with what you see? Life is too short for ugly boats. 

As for fiberglass boats having souls - I think the soul comes from the experiences you share with her good and bad. You have to have busted knuckles in the bilge, cold spray in your face and beautiful days on the water first. Only then can she speak to you.

Jim McGee
94 C22 Island Time
95 C30 Goin' Coastal


----------



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks for worrying about me guys . Most people could care if I suck my next breath .....hahaha....Skipjack was re-fastened 2002 . Oh my God Jim....have you been watching me . I have a specific place on the pier where I pause for my " one last look "


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Copper rivets are the longest lasting fastening. The boat that started this thread has them.


----------



## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

:laugher Nah, I haven't been watching. I just know what I do.

They say you have to be nuts to own a sailboat. 

I own two. 'nuf said.

Jim


----------



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Since I've bought my wood boat I've learned quite a bit about what's needed to maintain it & I think also about what would make it better . So far nothing has surprised me & nothing about having a wood boat has been offensive to my sensibilities in the least . Even tasks that I imagine to be onerous to others have thus far seemed very worthwhile to me . I'm still in search of the down side to this endeavor .


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well said...


JimMcGee said:


> As for fiberglass boats having souls - *I think the soul comes from the experiences you share with her good and bad. You have to have busted knuckles in the bilge, cold spray in your face and beautiful days on the water first. Only then can she speak to you.*
> 
> Jim McGee
> 94 C22 Island Time
> 95 C30 Goin' Coastal


----------



## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

kjango said:


> Anyway.....wood ....glass.....who cares.....the important thing I think is to go with what speaks to you .


Great advice! While I would not touch a wooden boat with a ten foot steel pole, they can be beautiful and serve the right masters well. One man's wine might just be another man's vinegar or vice versa...


----------



## captsuz (May 13, 2008)

..having grown up before the mast of several classic wooden boats, lying atop the sails in the v-berth listening to her breathe through the pounding waves (something I've never heard in a FG boat), I affirm that a "woodie" does speak to a young girl's soul~ and even though a technical boat responds with power and agility, I somehow will not ever shake the grace and connection to the lines and feel of a wooden beauty.


----------



## siberian (Mar 16, 2008)

ehmanta said:


> I would like to second the importance of re-fastening the planks. Several years ago on the Chesapeake, there was a charter fishing boat(wooden) out of Point Lookout that was lost due to the planking opening up and several people were lost. The boat sank immediately. This was of course in late fall when the water temp was very cold and I believe that it was blowing a bit so it was choppy.


Ain't that a bucket of seawater in the face. Given that to be so, I'm wanting to re-fasten a previously iron fastened 36' trawler, perhaps avoiding the same fate. I'm looking for 2500 #14-#18x2.5" HD galvanized 'cut-thread' (slot headed wood screws). I need a source and I'm having NO luck! I think hen's teeth are easier to find. Don't want SS or silicon bronze and don't want boat nails. Does anyone in the sailnet community have any leads? Suppliers with old stock perhaps.. Much appreciated in advance.


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Oh Joy has Everdur fasteners. It's kind of a moot point considering she was C-flexed shortly afterward. There's nothing quite like a woodie. I personally wouldn't use galvanized screws since the zinc can get leached out of them by electrolysis.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

siberion:
Maybe you could galvanize yourself Why Galvanize?
but other than cost or wanting to be traditional why not just use SS.


----------



## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

siberian and the group...

If you have insurance, or require insurance, be sure to check with them before you spend tons of money on fasteners, having them installed - only to find out that you can no longer get insurance.

A year or so back was involved with a redo, where the insurance company required a specific fastener...monel in this case...

Just hate to see you spend tons of $$ and time, to be disappointed. Even the best zinc/galvanized available today, will only last a few years...

dave


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Hamilton Marine has them. Search "galv wood screw". Check Jamestown Distributors too.
The Woodenboat Forum is a great source for this kind of info.


----------



## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

Wander on over to the WoodenBoat Forum. WoodenBoat Publications, WoodenBoat Magazine, Professional BoatBuilder Magazine, Small Boats Magazine and Getting Started in Boats. click on FORUM.

Lots of VERY good help there.

WHOA! all I did is type the woodenboat link and all THAT extra stuff showed up!


----------



## siberian (Mar 16, 2008)

*HD galvenized 'cut-thread' supplier found.*

In case anyone else needs such a fastener, Admiral Ship Supply :: Port Townsend Source for Wooden Boat Parts and Supplies, Oakum, Caulk Cotton, Sealant, Fasteners, Bronz Fasteners, Abrasives, Mar-X-ite, Epoxy, Marine Paint and more! in Port Townsend can supply them.


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Lotsa good suppliers in PT, especially for wooden boats.


----------



## siberian (Mar 16, 2008)

*fastener source*

Wooden Boat's 'Planking & Fastening' by Peter Spectre will explain in detail why you should choose a particular fastener over another.. Very informative. 
If you've an iron fastened boat and are in the market for HD cut-thread galvanized screws (a rare animal indeed) contact 'Standard Fasteners' in New Bedford Maine. From what I've found, they have good prices.


----------

