# Low buck bow thruster??



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I was thnking so I decided to ask here. Has anyone used a remote control electric trolling motor as a bow thruster? Im thinking it would be a great thing for close quarters maneuvering. Of course it would have to be kept coverd at the dock to avoid thousands of stupid comments.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, here's your first stupid comment. 

Do you have one of those plastic water filled anchors too?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Instead of the trolling motor, try "getting a wife", put her on the bow and let her tend the lines. Just think of marraige like an old boat: fun and exciting in the beginning but a lot of maintenance to keep it up!!!

(On second thought, maybe the the troller idea would be cheaper).

To answer your question, It would have to be one hell of a troller to push the bow of a sailing vessel. If you have a very small boat, maybe... but any boat of any size and displacement does not move really easy. Just my thoughts. I will say that my boat on a beam wind takes every ounce of energy I can muster (and often my wifes) to pull over the bow. A friend of mine with a high-end thruster on his taswell cannot get his to move in much more than about 12-15. My boat displaces about 25,000 lbs, I guess, with our junk on it (only 500 lbs without all our junk, HAHA).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, unlike a bass boat, which is what most trolling motors are designed for, a sailboat has a lot more underwater profile as a general rule.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

I have seem this question asked before elsewhere - presumably by you?
Guess you didn't like those answers but suspect you'll get the same comments here, if not worse.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Somehow, I just can't visualize an outboard/bow-thruster jury-rigged to my bow, considering the 5'-2" distance from toe rail to waterline.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Why not try a blender or a mixer?? While you're at it, prepare a few margarittas, to drink after docking!!!


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## Irwin32 (Jul 1, 2001)

In theory it should work for a 30 footer, but why bother? It is a lot easier to put a bow line ashore and pull.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

I think compressed air is the way to go, something like the air brakes on an 18-wheeler.

Small holes in the hull, big push, big bubbles, scare the hell outta the fish!

Also, with good air pressure you could hook up a real air horn, just to let folks know that the village idiot -- oops, marina idiot -- is trying his hand at docking....again


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

I use a leaf blower on my boat. The engine is small, although a little loud, especially when submerging the blowing end in water to make the turns. The reason I use it instead of the trolling motor is that I have found it more useful in dead air. I can just blow in the sails and find that it moves the boat along rather nicely. It also works for cleanup in the cabin.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

How about a JATO???

Check it here how it works!!
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

k1vsk said:


> I have seem this question asked before elsewhere - presumably by you?
> Guess you didn't like those answers but suspect you'll get the same comments here, if not worse.


Not me but thanks for your great reply...

Some of the motors have 60" shafts and well over 100lbs of thrust, about like a small BT. It's pushing the bow where there is little keel. Im sure someone has tried it, somewhere.

Man you people don't like to think outside the box...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0036409018350a&navCount=2&podId=0036409&parentId=cat400009&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=MainCatcat21276-cat400009&catalogCode=IG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat400009&hasJS=true

http://www.thrusters.com/thrusters/dcthrusters.html
So the real bow thruster is 24 volt and the ******* bow thruster is 36 volt. Anyone know how to convert foot lbs to HP?


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

Hello wildcard:

Who knew you would get such abuse.

I think that some may be overestimating the thrust needed to move the bow laterally. A little thrust _applied continuously_ is what is wanted. Even in large vessels, bow thrusters generally don't develop a lot of horsepower, and an electric trolling motor that will produce 100 pounds of thrust could be quite effective, depending on the boat.

There are two problems; (1)mounting and (2) stowing when not in service.

If all else fails, you can put one of those little swivel seats that they put in bass boats on your foredeck and fish!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Now thats a damn fine idea! A casting platform.
I tried putting my wife on the bow with a paddle, not such a great idea, never arm the crew.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

http://www.max-power.com/product/compact.htm

This costs just a few hundred more and will do the job


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Plus haul out plus install plus another hole in the hull plus is't for more flat bottomed boats.....I can't believe how short sighted some people are. OK, yes I can.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

btrayfors:

"I think compressed air is the way to go, something like the air brakes on an 18-wheeler.
Small holes in the hull, big push, big bubbles, scare the hell outta the fish"

Actually, that's not really a bad idea, rather than boring great horrible holes in the bow, all that's needed is a couple of maybe 3/4 inch holes with appropriate fittings connected with high pressure hoses to a high pressure compressor. HHHHmmmmmmmm.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Not that I would ever install a bow thruster, I believe that (except for those that have to dock with high currents/winds and those that have to fit a 45' boat on a tight 30' slip), if you can't "park" your boat, maybe you shuldn't be "driving" it, and a smaller boat would be better.

WC the bow thruster I was *kindly* showing you is for any boat (mine happens to be flatt from bow to stern, but that model can be installed even i V shaped hulls), because it is installed facing down and the cutout actually works as a lid (covers the whole), and is retractable.

Another reason I don't have one is weight in the front, don't need it....

As for installing it is pretty easy, and the whole thing costs less than one might think. I posted the link because you posted the link with the price, so I was showing that your idea (not discussing if its good or bad) costs almos the same as the real thing.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The desire for a bow thruster has nothing to do with the NEED for a BT. I have run some big boats through some small holes many times without problems with no BT. I asked a simple question, Has anyone done this and I get a bunch of smartassed answers from people that are unable to think on there own. I imagine the first guy to make a cement boat got the same sort of comments.


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## feetup (Sep 19, 2006)

*cheap push*

Wildcard
You might be on to something here.

I have noticed in any thread where the topic of bow thrusters comes up there is a lot of negative comment. There seems to be some sort of "Real sailors don't do bow thrusters" mentality. There was a thread a while back asking about the topic and the poster was promptly acussed of being handicapped. Turns out he had suffered a stroke and had difficulty with brute force docking manouvers, prompting apologies all around. 
I can understand your reluctance to toss a couple of grand or more at the chandler then the same again at the boat yard just to have two ruddy big holes poked in your hull, and extra batteries, and wires the size of a horses' leg, and finding out the thing is drawing way too much current because it is the home of an entire colony of a particularly tenacious marine growth. 
I can also see a few problems with the trolling motor approach but most of them centered around what to do with the thing when you are not actually using it, and in the case of my boat, where to mount the thing, my foredeck being crowded already.
I am getting the feeling you are not talking about a 40+ footer, that would be just silly, and you don't sound silly. 
The idea of using a tractor type of propulsion for sliding into the slip is interesting as opposed to the usual pusher arrangment. Look what they are doing with Tug boats lately. Docking with the conventional system wherein directional control astern is is only available with a little too much sternway (unless you count propwalk which almost always seems to be in the wrong direction for the space and approach available) always seems to me to be like trying to perfect an art with enormous handicaps. I do watch openmouthed when I see it done sweetly but my blood pressure always goes up a bit when I see a pannel of judges on the dock during my approach.
I say go for it. There are a few complexities all right, but if it was done well it could be really slick. I imagine a neat clean bracket that fits up under the anchor rollers. If you have a self bailing anchor locker you could even separate the 'head' of the unit from the shaft/drive assy. and have everything but the drive swivel 90 deg. and retract into the locker alongside the hull out of the way. With 360 degree swiveling you could use it to get quite fancy in your manouvering, if there was't too much wind or current, and used merely as a thruster I'm sure that 100 lbs. of thrust would do a lot of good. I would be surprised if many people could pull more than 50 lbs. horizontally.
Incidentally, I believe that the thrust they are referring to in the specs you gave the address for is measured in pounds, not in foot pounds. Thrust measuments are simply push (or pull) and are measured in pounds, ounces, grams, kilograms, tonnes etc. Foot pounds (newton/meters etc.) are measures of thrust at a distance from center, ie. torque or twist. Horsepower is a measure of torque times revolutions over a unit of time which is, in it's pure form, the ability to achieve a certain amount of work in a certain amount of time. Crossing thrust over to HP. is fairly complex since there are so many variables such as the medium you are thrusting in, the efficiency of the machine (prop, jetdrive, wheel etc.) there are tables but they are only approx. It would be better to compare by power consumed or watts, (volts X amps). Watts are directly transferrable to HP. 1 HP = 745.6999 Watts.

Let us know how you do, this does have possibilities if done well.

fair thrusting to ya'
Feetup


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you for one of the few intelligent replys. It's a full keel 35 footer that does not like to turn to port in either direction. Electric motors can be found that have a long cradle for lack of a beter term. You just flip them up and they go down and lock in place. They can also be run by IR remote saving the extra wiring. I think it would fit nicely along the toe rail with a cover to avoid the afore mentioned comments.
Id just like to know if anyone has done it and how it worked?
Lack of ability? Hey, I have one motor why not two? Im not good enough to do it without any power nor are most so why fight it?


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Since the resistance of water at zero speed is virtually zero, it takes almost no thrust to actually move a boat of any size. What you can't get with a small motor is acceleration and speed. As soon as the boat starts to move the resistance goes way up. However consider this. Most people would have a VERY hard time pushing with a100 lbs of force against a piling. Now imagine that you could do that, and do it continuously too. I think the reality is that even a small trolling motor will spin a 40 foot boat around a whole lot quicker than you might think! All of the issues come down to how to mount the thing. You only need to mount it sideways, and use forward and reverse if you just want to steer. It doesn't have to be centered either. So if you had a permanent stainless bracket with a wedge slot on one side of the bow, and a plug for the unit on deck, you could reach over the side and drop the motor into the bracket and plug it in when you needed it.


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

Good reply but the threads 2 years old.


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

RXBOT said:


> Good reply but the threads 2 years old.


That may be true, but if he had not revived this thread, I would have never seen it. This was pretty funny stuff.
DD


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## luhtag (Mar 5, 2003)

I know it's an old thread but I couldn't resist. 

The low buck bow thruster is a great idea. All the ***** responses on this thread are typical. I doubt these folks would have the stuff to speak openly the same way at a bar. The vision of a lying prostitute getting pimp-smacked comes to mind. 

I know everyone on this forum is the best boat handler ever created by God. Even God could not dock a boat better. In fact I'm sure all of you could dock an 80 footer under sail in a hurricane from the v-berth using nothing but your telekinetic powers while you make love to one of your super model concubines. 

The idea of using a trolling motor as an occasional bow thruster has a lot of merit. These motors can produce a 100 pounds of thrust which is plenty to assist the bow of any 50 footer. I've helped dock an 80 footer using a dinghy with a 20 lb. thrust Minn Kota and it did just fine. A little slow but it was better than nothing. So the whole not strong enough argument is simply incorrect. And I would never let some dock kid or marina guy push on my boat with a skiff. 

My rag boat is 50 feet and has a 65 hp auxiliary. Go ahead with the snippy comments, it is what it is. Reliable and very efficient. But it's not a Titan when maneuvering in confined quarters with a running current and high winds in an unfamiliar marina. A quick attach trolling motor on the bow would make things much more relaxed. All it would have to do is hold the bow. Not spin the boat. 

Now before any of you experts tell me how easily it would be for you to dock your boat in a class 3 rapid during a tornado, let me say that I've never had an incident docking my boat. With the pulpit, anchors, and davits, I'm looking at about 57ft overall. It can obviously be done, but what harm is there in having an effective and cheap alternative to cutting a huge hole in your boat? Much of my sailing is 600 plus miles offshore. The last thing anyone needs is another hole in their hull especially at the cost of $9000 grand or more. I can afford it, but I have my principles. And my last concern is impressing the meathead in the slip next to me. I've got nothing to prove. 

Over the years I've had to sail some boats in and out of marinas. I've come in and backed my boat into a slip entirely under sail, single handed. I've raced competitively since I was 7. I hold an unlimited Masters license, unlimited towing license, first class pilotage, every unlicensed deck endorsement the federal government has, and I've been Captain of a 580 foot petroleum tanker for over 15 years. I've literally spent more of my life on water than on land and I've got millions of miles under the keel, not thousands. Oh yeah, I've also docked a boat in a hurricane, multiple times. 

Point being, who cares about your silly skills. The Op was asking a simple question about his idea. I stumbled upon this post because I was looking for a similar solution. For around a thousand bucks, I can quickly attach a trolling motor near the bow to help back into a foreign slip. What could be more relaxing. I'd rather keep a hand free for my beer or my super model's rear than have to back and fill like a maniac. Done that. 

The Kota wouldn't have to extend off the stem as an eye sore. It could simply be attached farther aft, along side, as long as the thrust was deeper than the hull. A remote foot pedal from the cockpit would suffice as a control, and when your boat is all fast, disconnect the whole thing and chuck it in a locker. Easy money. The setup need not be an ugly behemoth. If the paint matched the hull it'd hardly be noticeable. 

If I can't find a suitable option for this idea then I'll be talking to an engineer. I bet West Marine would be interested in my marketing ideas.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Do you always walk in with guns blazing? I've seen some angry people in my life and have seen many thousands of "opening" letters in places like this forum Yours is pretty awful.

BTW, Jeanneau (and others) already have your system out there for those that can afford it. Usually that is people who own 50ft boats.

So even my idea of a a 6 nozzle joy stick system with a jet pump is moot.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

yes, if i had a 50+ boat I could afford to take lessons from someone without a chip on his shoulder.


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## luhtag (Mar 5, 2003)

That looks like a lot of fun but it's still puts unecessary holes in the hull. 

There has to be an easy solution. I like the jet idea, either air or water. It just seems in this day and age of high technology there'd ne a quick and inexpensive solution for a makeshift bow thruster. 

I once saw a guy using a large RC tugboat to pull himself around the marina in a dinghy. Maybe he was on to something.


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## irmedic (Aug 13, 2010)

We had a Sirius 28 in harbour with a very neat bow thruster. The guy was a machinist, and setup a v shaped rail that fixed to the bow on two sides. He then led a line aft to raise and lower it in the water when needed. He also had it on a remote control to move him with ease. For a nearly 80 year old sailor it kept him on the water for a few more years.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

IRMedic, it would be neat to see. Do you have any pictures?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

one of the cast of characters around here did exactly this, on his 30' Doral Prestancia. I'll get some pics tomorrow.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> Do you always walk in with guns blazing? I've seen some angry people in my life and have seen many thousands of "opening" letters in places like this forum Yours is pretty awful.
> 
> BTW, Jeanneau (and others) already have your system out there for those that can afford it. Usually that is people who own 50ft boats.
> 
> So even my idea of a a 6 nozzle joy stick system with a jet pump is moot.


I have to disagree. I felt that luhtag made very reasonable points and that many of the snappy replies to the original post were inappropriate.

Using a trolling motor as a bow thruster is something I have thought about myself (independently of this thread which I was not aware of) and I think there is potential in it. It's not a slam dunk (otherwise everybody would have one) but I see no harm in discussing the problems with this approach, and how to potentially overcome them. I thought that is what Sailnet is about.

For those that disagree, make your point politely. Telling us about your superior docking skills or suggesting marriage counseling is not a useful contribution.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

luhtag said:


> All the ***** responses on this thread are typical. I doubt these folks would have the stuff to speak openly the same way at a bar. The vision of a lying prostitute getting pimp-smacked comes to mind.


Wow! I don't think I have ever read an angrier, more combative, or more derogatory, first post in the nearly thirty years I've been participating in online forums (yes, going clear back to the days of usenet).


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

You need one of these puppies mounted on a swivel on your bow.

Southeast Asian Long Tail outboard.

[URL="


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## irmedic (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm still looking for the drop down bow thruster, here's a low buck stern thruster I found though:

Stern Thruster - Great Lakes Fisherman


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

irmedic, thanks for that. Attaching to the stern seems to be easier than the bow. I wonder if, at the very least, a stern thruster could help compensate for prop walk.


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

That is one way to revive a dead thread...insult people:laugher

That'll get you friends


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## trkarl (Aug 11, 2013)

Personally, I'm intrigued by the idea. However, this option:


wildcard said:


> They can also be run by IR remote saving the extra wiring.


...would be a bad one because IR is easily swamped out by the sun. Maybe he meant a RF remote which would be a great addition.


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## lowtide (Mar 23, 2008)

denverd0n said:


> Wow! I don't think I have ever read an angrier, more combative, or more derogatory, first post in the nearly thirty years I've been participating in online forums (yes, going clear back to the days of usenet).


And the only posts in *10 years* signed up!

I have less than 50 in 5 years,but wow!

When Luhtag breaks the silence look out!

'


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

luhtag said:


> I know it's an old thread but I couldn't resist.
> 
> The low buck bow thruster is a great idea. All the ***** responses on this thread are typical. I doubt these folks would have the stuff to speak openly the same way at a bar. The vision of a lying prostitute getting pimp-smacked comes to mind.
> 
> ...


For your second post in 10 years - I'd say that was very well stated my good man. Carry on!


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

I find myself ignoring sailnet more and more but I couldn't resist commenting on the content of this tread. As i see the issue, the best concept for handy manoeuvring would be two of those easily maintained units recommended by Kellysails (long tails from Thailand) Mounted bow and stern and tethered together, connected with steering ropes to a centrally mounted vertical shafted steering wheel out of a bus .This would facilitate docking and negate any need for development of boat handling skills . Which is probably good because as used in Thailand ,there is no reverse. This small oversight requires the addition of Hundystad pitchable props controlled by a second bus steering wheel for finessing the docking experience The rig as i describe it is so elegant there would be no need of hiding it in a locker after use.and may well be emulated by fellow boaters. Good ideas often are.


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

Pamlicotraveler said:


> I use a leaf blower on my boat. The engine is small, although a little loud, especially when submerging the blowing end in water to make the turns. The reason I use it instead of the trolling motor is that I have found it more useful in dead air. I can just blow in the sails and find that it moves the boat along rather nicely. It also works for cleanup in the cabin.


Can you use an electric blower off the inverter, or do you have to have gas? I don't like gas onboard because it's dangerous.


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## drsutton (Aug 6, 2013)

The easiest and simplest solution is a spring line attach to the stern. Hauling in line causes the bow to rotate in the opposite direction.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

I like the bow thruster I put in my boat. I negated the need to the big cables to run it by putting a 130 Ah battery close to it and just run cables for charging it there. I got it cheap from a boat yard in the UK when I built my boat and like it a lot. 








It has 160 + lbs of thrust and helps with the handling in tight spaces as I do not have crew to hand a paddle to.

ATB

Michael


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

luhtag said:


> ........In fact I'm sure all of you could dock an 80 footer under sail in a hurricane from the v-berth using nothing but your telekinetic powers while you make love to one of your super model concubines.
> 
> .........


From this moment forward, I won't feel like I've earned my stripes until I pull this off.

A real keeper!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)




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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm speechless. Even a good stinkpotter jab would seem inadequate.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

wildcard said:


> I was thnking so I decided to ask here. Has anyone used a remote control electric trolling motor as a bow thruster? Im thinking it would be a great thing for close quarters maneuvering. Of course it would have to be kept coverd at the dock to avoid thousands of stupid comments.


...so you have decided to come here to get Your thousand?

Ok, here goes one for ya. Tie Your kid off the bow With a pair of flippers on and then toss candy to the side you want him or her to swim to pull Your bow around.


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## JoeLena (May 14, 2012)

Pamlicotraveler said:


> I use a leaf blower on my boat.


How long is the extension cord on that thang?


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## __floater__ (Nov 14, 2014)

BOOM!



bljones said:


>


I think luhtag simply stated what many of us thought when we read the first few pages of replies to the OP's question.
Frankly I was surprised how harsh some of the replies were. Not at all what I expected from a place which I thought existed to help sailors.
Turns out all the smart-a**es have egg on their faces. Perfect.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

bljones said:


>





__floater__ said:


> BOOM!
> 
> I think luhtag simply stated what many of us thought when we read the first few pages of replies to the OP's question.
> Frankly I was surprised how harsh some of the replies were. Not at all what I expected from a place which I thought existed to help sailors.
> Turns out all the smart-a**es have egg on their faces. Perfect.


Just because it was done means it was a good idea. This guy spent a LOT of money putting a temporary motor into a permanent install. Heck he drilled holes in the hull to run the electric thorough. This guy gets an F in hack engineering, every one knows it should have had a battery on the foredeck with household solid wire running down to it and alligator clips instead of a switch. This guy put way to much effort into this. Heck this likely cost just as much as a proper install would have cost.


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## __floater__ (Nov 14, 2014)

Somebody's mad.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Not mad just hate to see stupid waste of money.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Actually, that setup isn't bad, as long as it is considered only as a Sacrificial Stem. Saves much Fiberglass repair resulting from bad docking, or from overtaking a Sailboat in a most inappropriate manner.

My Beneteau has the twin Rudder setup, so I don't have propwash to play with.
Well then, blip the throttle, try to get some sternway, and then attempt any directional control. Propwalk is so much fun, when you have ten feet of beam in eleven feet of berth. The previous owner had simply installed dock rollers. I could see the slight gelcoat grunge lines.


I learned the Spring line trick a long time ago, but I learned that it was better to start any Bumpy Boating adventures Bow first, which means swapping Bow for Stern either after the last trip, or before the next trip, or sometime in between, just by using the docklines. I hardly ever fall in.

An Electric stern thruster would be just dandy, because I can hang the damn thing off of the folding swim ladder, and pull it up when not needed. I'll tell people that it is a Kelp Cutter.

The trick is this: You have forward and reverse thrust, and angle. About Angle: not 90 Degrees CW, but some angle that not only prevents slamming Portly into the dock, but that also, with the main prop, generates a combined Vector Force that pulls the stern out cleanly. Maybe 80 Degrees. This would need some experimentation.
Attaching it should be easy: some Research Grade Velcro, (Yes, there is such stuff. They used it on the Space Shuttle. We used it for securing LN and LHe plumbing. Very strong stuff.), and run the cables right to the Starting Battery about 2 Meters inboard. I can use the hole previously drilled for the LORAN Antenna; it's unlikely to ever see any use otherwise.
And it is easily detachable for dinghier reasons.

Now, I can see one big problem here: What to call it. "Propulseur d'Irlande" seems appropriate, and if it doesn't work out, I can always blame the British. All that I would have to mention is "Seagull..."

Erindipity


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