# How come noone loves the smaller Cheoy Lees?



## mkrautha (Jul 11, 2003)

I am currently boat shopping. I've noticed that few people seem to really like the Cheoy Lee offshore cadet, nor the Frisco Flyer. Why is that? They are both folkboat based designs with the addition of more headroom and in the case of the cadet, a couple extra feet. From a quick glance at the numbers they seem to compare with other seaworthy small boats. Moreover, asthetically they look great. Is there something I'm missing or are they just not common, hence a general lack of opinion?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*How come noone loves the smaller Cheoy Lees?

*Because of the work! These are basically 40 year old bots now and loaded with a lot of wood. Most have long gone to seed with rot and leaks BUT there are a few gems around and they are classic beauties and solid boats.


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## mkrautha (Jul 11, 2003)

*Cheoy lees*

I see. Something to think about I suppose.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Actually, in my mind, while build quality was quite poor, the real problem is that the Frisco Fliers are too loosely based on the Folkboats. The Folkboats were considerably lighter and had considerably more, and higher density ballast. The result is that the Folkboats were a lot more stable and could carry sail longer. Also the Fliers were masthead rigs and so a little harder to handle all around and less forgiving in changeable conditions (a folkboat strong point). 

The Newel Cadets (and Offshore Cadets) really bear little resemblance to a Folkboat above or below the waterline. The Folkboats had nearly full length keels with outboard rudders. The Cadets had sharply cut away forefoots and raked rudder posts making them closer to a fin keel with attached rudder. Again, Folkboats were fractional rigs with the sail's feet close to the deck, the Newels were masthead with a high mainsail foot.

My folkboat was extremely well balanced and was an absolute pleasure to sail. She was also reasonably quick for what she was. Great little boats all around so much so that she is certainly one of my favorite boats out of the over a dozen that I have owned. The Cheoy Lees in question really don't have the same virtues. 

Jeff


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## mkrautha (Jul 11, 2003)

*Folkboat vs Cheoy Lee cadet and flyer*



Jeff_H said:


> Actually, in my mind, while build quality was quite poor, the real problem is that the Frisco Fliers are too loosely based on the Folkboats. The Folkboats were considerably lighter and had considerably more, and higher density ballast. The result is that the Folkboats were a lot more stable and could carry sail longer. Also the Fliers were masthead rigs and so a little harder to handle all around and less forgiving in changeable conditions (a folkboat strong point).
> 
> The Newel Cadets (and Offshore Cadets) really bear little resemblance to a Folkboat above or below the waterline. The Folkboats had nearly full length keels with outboard rudders. The Cadets had sharply cut away forefoots and raked rudder posts making them closer to a fin keel with attached rudder. Again, Folkboats were fractional rigs with the sail's feet close to the deck, the Newels were masthead with a high mainsail foot.
> 
> ...


I dunno Jeff. I am sure you are more informed than I. But according to the contessa 26 website's description of the Alberg 30, the folkboat and the contessa 26, they all have, "a long keel cut away at the forward end and a steeply raked rudder shaft attached to the keel." Apparently, just like the Cadet...

http://www.co26.com/about/


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Alberg 30 and the Newell Cadet are more closely related designs to each other, with very short waterlines and a sharply cut away forefoot below the waterline. Their inboard rudders allowed the aft end of the keel to be cut away as well. The Folkboat and the Contessa 26 had keel hung outboard rudders that were hung on a rudder post that was an extension of their transom. To counterbalance the deadwood portions of their keels aft the leading edge of their keels were also quite far forward as compared to the profile of either a Newell Cadet or Alberg 30. Neither the Newell or the Alberg track worth a darn while the Folkboat or Contessa 26 (essentially a folkboat hull with a masthead rig and larger house) will sail themselves forever. 

Jeff


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey Jeff...Your post on the Folkboat brought back some fond memories. Never owned one but had a friend that did. We went out on the bay one day in 10-15 knots and he pointed her on course and balanced things out and we sailed for 1.5 hours on course without touching the tiller once! Now that is balance...what a great design.


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