# Woman Missing – A warning to Newbies.



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

For all of you who want to sail off into the sunset without any experience or proper training, and wonder why you get so much "advice" on this forum - here is a sobering example.

"A daring multi-millionairess is missing feared dead after she bought a yacht and sailed it away the same day despite warnings about her lack of experience."

Mary Unwin bought a Moody 31, a very capable boat. Despite a lack of experience and against the advice of others, she decided to sail it home. She is missing and wreckage has been found. 

Fears for missing millionairess, 65, who took out yacht on solo voyage despite warnings as wreckage is found off Cornish coast | Mail Online

Edit: Here's another link: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-19944635


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Tragic and always timely for this listserv...


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Man, that looks more like plane crash debris, than a boat. Maybe it was hit by another ship.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Geoff54 said:


> For all of you who want to sail off into the sunset without any experience or proper training...


Well, sounds like that was not quite the case here...



> Jayne Hobkirk, of Falmouth Yacht Brokers, said Mrs Unwin had appeared on Thursday with her husband and paid for the boat with a banker's draft.
> 
> "*She said she had a captain's ticket*, but it sounded like she hadn't done any sailing for many years," she said.
> 
> "I told her to get a refresher course, but that would normally take some days."


To me the key is to be overly conservative...especially when "starting out" in a new-to-you boat (trust me, I just blew up a catamaran - heh-heh). On top of that, singlehanding immediately ups the risk - regardless of experience and training.

It sounds more like a string of bad decisions rather than simply lack of experience or proper training.

Sad story.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

Barquito said:


> Man, that looks more like plane crash debris, than a boat. Maybe it was hit by another ship.


Considering she left at 6:30pm that may well be the case.


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## dmchose (Sep 5, 2003)

Conservative decision making, validating assumptions, three way communicating / closing the loop, Knowing when to STOP to think / ask and review best and safest maneuver are paramount at sea or any location that can produce harm to the living.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Well, sounds like that was not quite the case here...
> 
> To me the key is to be overly conservative...especially when "starting out" in a new-to-you boat (trust me, I just blew up a catamaran - heh-heh). On top of that, singlehanding immediately ups the risk - regardless of experience and training.
> 
> ...


I don't know Smack, I can think of several things that I was quite good at when I was younger that I would be totally incompetent at if I tried today. She said that she had a qualification that the broker didn't recognize and it sounds like everybody was warning her that she didn't have the experience. It was reported by the newspapers, so it must be right.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

So much of that story just doesn't make sense. A 65 year old woman buys a boat with her husband, then, despite warnings not to sail until she had some experience, sets sail at night through treacherous waters in stormy weather. Her husband drives home to await her arrival. 

Women are usually more cautious than men. And, as we age, we all become more cautious. I can maybe see the 61 year old husband saying, "I'll sail the boat back home. You drive back and meet me." But for the wife to say that? Very unusual. 

It seems more like a suicide mission.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

Barquito said:


> Man, that looks more like plane crash debris, than a boat. Maybe it was hit by another ship.


I'm going to stick up for ships just on general principle. Easy theory to put forward but often the explanation is something else.

120 miles, onshore wind out of the west at Force 5 (say 20 knots), seas 4-5 feet? Alone? Lots of ways to end up on that "treacherous" lee shore without a ship.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Geoff54 said:


> I don't know Smack, I can think of several things that I was quite good at when I was younger that I would be totally incompetent at if I tried today. She said that she had a qualification that the broker didn't recognize and it sounds like everybody was warning her that she didn't have the experience. It was reported by the newspapers, so it must be right.


Yeah, who knows what all the real details are? I just wanted to point out the claimed certification (UK guys can chime in on the training required for RYA certification at this level) - as it was apparently not a case of some newb "sailing off into the sunset without any experience or proper training".

These kinds of threads - as you've titled it - are intended to be cautionary tales for newbs to establish a certain point of view. But, that means, even more so, that the details really need to be right on. Otherwise, it feels more like fear-mongering than cautionary tale.

This just seems to be a much more complicated case than a complete newb throwing caution and common sense into the toilet and hoisting the sails.

In fact, it might be more a cautionary tale for the semi-trained-and-experienced guys to take some refresher courses (Safety at Sea, ASA Certs, etc.) and forego singlehanding.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Geoff54 said:


> For all of you who want to sail off into the sunset without any experience or proper training, and wonder why you get so much "advice" on this forum - here is a sobering example.


We will never know what happened and why she would do this to herself. But I respect her decision. She was 62, and she couldn't be that foolish. RIP.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JulieMor said:


> It seems more like a suicide mission.


I just don't want to say it myself.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Otherwise, it feels more like fear-mongering than cautionary tale.


Obviously, OP posted this meant no harm to anyone. I doubt it was fear mongering. But on the internet, there are plenty unintentional attitude towards others that "If I can't do it or I am unwilling to do that, you should not do that either". It makes the matter, when the receiving end fails to listen, they ganged up on him/her. Sadly, this happens every day on Sailnet.

Before I commit to become a sailor, I always though that sailors were the most friendly, open minded individuals with board shoulder and tolerance of diversity. I found it out that I was wrong. They don't like the ideas that are different from them, they don't like to share, they hates power boaters, and etc.

I would rather sail to the best of my ability. I wound rather be taking her through the storm than watching the sunset at the dock. Sailing is safer than ever, let's have some fun.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

My secret-conspiracy-theory hope is that she wanted to stage her own death, in order to duck out of... whatever she wanted to duck out of. At this very moment, maybe she is sitting on a beach somewhere, with a fruity drink in one hand and her laptop in the other, reading SN and laughing.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I lived near there on that coast for two years and travelled the full length of it around to Portsmouth. It is one scary and treacherous place, worse in many ways than the west coast here. Tides second only to Fundy, extreme tide races, only tiny nooks in the cliffs for harbours and on & on. Sailing off the Oregon coast would be a reasonable facsimile. It's the absolute definition of a lee shore.

No place to screw around or take things lightly or you will quickly become a finalist in the Darwin awards.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

JulieMor said:


> It seems more like a suicide mission.


Something is fishy here. She's loaded. Hubby have someone take her out on the high seas? Terminal illness? Don't know really, but people w/ that kind of money don't buy boats 27 years old and only 31' and then do delivery sails in the dead of night alone.

They buy bigger boats that are newer and pay others to do the nasty deliveries for them while they wait in nice hotels for their new boat to arrive.

That story just doesn't make sense.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Barquito said:


> My secret-conspiracy-theory hope is that she wanted to stage her own death, in order to duck out of... whatever she wanted to duck out of. At this very moment, maybe she is sitting on a beach somewhere, with a fruity drink in one hand and her laptop in the other, reading SN and laughing.


After reading the side bar about her appearance on "pawn stars" does make it seem she was experiencing some financial issues. though she did get back together with her husband. though it is not normal to pawn stuff to buy an Aston Martin is it? She seemed a bit eccentric to say the least.

The boat seems to be an odd choice as well, as her history was of Aston Martins and big diamonds, a 31 foot Moody does not seem to be her style, a Swan might be more like it.

Very strange story.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Geoff54 said:


> For all of you who want to sail off into the sunset without any experience or proper training, and wonder why you get so much "advice" on this forum - here is a sobering example.
> 
> "A daring multi-millionairess is missing feared dead after she bought a yacht and sailed it away the same day despite warnings about her lack of experience."
> 
> ...


Have you guys watched the "Pawn King" video in that first link? Seems an unfortunate epilogue...

The last line is her saying "Since when do ladies want to wait for _anything_?"

What a weird story.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

Well, they've called off the search, so we may never know what happened. But shouldn't their be more debris on the shore if she got washed up? 

I agree, it such an odd story.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

They've found the boat now. Looks like she traveled about 15 miles or so from her start.

Missing Yachtswoman: Boat Found Off Cornwall | Orange UK


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, who knows what all the real details are? I just wanted to point out the claimed certification (UK guys can chime in on the training required for RYA certification at this level) - as it was apparently not a case of some newb "sailing off into the sunset without any experience or proper training".
> (snip)


As is all too frequently the case, it depends on which news you read, and who they quote. The owner of the yacht brokerage was quoted in The Mail:


> 'She told us she had a 'navy ticket', which didn't mean anything to us but which she said was some sort of qualification.


It was some other employee of the brokerage who used the words "captain's ticket".


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## urbanhermit (Nov 15, 2010)

Sounds more to do with this being a good premise for a TV movie than it does as a warning to new sailors.
So a 4 year kid turns the key on his moms car which he was sitting unattended, flips it into reverse like mom does and backs over a bank. is that a warning for new drivers or more of a story that makes you say wow?


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, who knows what all the real details are? I just wanted to point out the claimed certification (UK guys can chime in on the training required for RYA certification at this level) - as it was apparently not a case of some newb "sailing off into the sunset without any experience or proper training".
> 
> These kinds of threads - as you've titled it - are intended to be cautionary tales for newbs to establish a certain point of view. But, that means, even more so, that the details really need to be right on. Otherwise, it feels more like fear-mongering than cautionary tale.
> 
> ...


I have enough personal experience not to trust quotes in the press but she supposedly said that she had a "navy ticket" or a "captian's ticket" - as one of those "UK guys", I can tell you that there is no RYA qualification that matches either description.

I was out of sailing for ten years and was surprised how much I had forgotten and how much had changed when I came back. What's that chart notation mean again? what's that little DSC button for? wow, chartplotters are cool etc. etc.

I suspect she _was _some newb sailing off into the sunset without any experience or proper training ... that she had sailed a bit sometime in the distant past doesn't really count. We'll probably never know the details.

I didn't mean to be " fear-mongering" but if it scares one person into learning a little before setting out - great! You want to have the thread re-titled - go ahead. Maybe we can agree to differ on this one without arguing about it for three days


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

The wreck was found less than 15 nm from the starting point of Mousehole, very early of her voyage. Why there was no distress call via cell phone ?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Geoff54 said:


> Maybe we can agree to differ on this one without arguing about it for three days


How about 2 days, then? We've gotta get at least a little mileage out of it!

I take your point, G. You may be absolutely right about her "newbness". No offense intended. Whatever her actual experience was, it obviously wasn't enough to prevent some really bad and/or strange decisions.

As has been pointed out above, this whole thing just sounds really off. A small, relatively inexpensive boat, paid for with a bank draft, for a wealthy couple? A singlehanded passage at night in rough conditions against a treacherous lee shore - while the hubby drives home? The pawning, the recent remarrying, etc.

It will be an interesting story to follow.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> The wreck was found less than 15 nm from the starting point of Mousehole, very early of her voyage. Why there was no distress call via cell phone ?


Maybe a bit strange but there' a lot of rocks along that coast - things can happen pretty fast.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

BTW Where did "at night" come from? The reports seem to say that she sailed from Falmouth to Mousehole on Friday, which is trickly passage itself. Presumably she stayed in Mousehole Friday night (smart move) and left again on Saturday. Did I miss something?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Going by this statement:



> Steve Huxley, search and rescue manager at Falmouth Coastguard, said: "The woman departed Mousehole on Saturday evening on board her newly-purchased vessel.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

JulieMor said:


> I can maybe see the 61 year old husband saying, "I'll sail the boat back home. You drive back and meet me." But for the wife to say that? Very unusual.


Maybe 60-somethings are coming from a different era.... Today, among my early 30-something peers, this wouldn't turn any heads (assuming wife did in fact have the proper skills and experience).


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Going by this statement:


Missed that! So she sailed to Mousehole on Friday and then didn't leave until Saturday evening. I was about to say that would be strange indeed, but Mousehole is a drying harbor so, if she missed the early morning tide, she would have to wait until late afternoon to be able to leave. Penzance (just North of Mousehole) shows high tide on Saturday at 5:08 pm. Maybe foolish but not so strange.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

caberg said:


> Maybe 60-somethings are coming from a different era.... Today, among my early 30-something peers, this wouldn't turn any heads (assuming wife did in fact have the proper skills and experience).


Ehhh, not sure about this on my end...

However I know plenty of men, older and younger, who would do bone headed things like this without thinking twice (a few are actually friends who I am contemplating buying a life insurance policy on), the type who know all there is to know about pretty much everything. The type who tell you that if they hit a little squall they don't need reef points they can just start the motor and get away from that lee shore, and besides they are good swimmers even without PFD's 

She paid 31,000 POUNDS for a 30 year old, 31' monohull? Isn't that like 45,000 bucks? Sounds like a scheme of some sort to me...


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

May be she purposely ran into the rock at high speed. There must be some underlying reasons she did that. It is so beyond stupid. 

They should call the Scotland Yard.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Geoff54 said:


> Missed that! So she sailed to Mousehole on Friday and then didn't leave until Saturday evening. I was about to say that would be strange indeed, but Mousehole is a drying harbor so, if she missed the early morning tide, she would have to wait until late afternoon to be able to leave. Penzance (just North of Mousehole) shows high tide on Saturday at 5:08 pm. Maybe foolish but not so strange.


How many nm is it from Mousehole to Bideford? How many hours would it take for a "normal" passage?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

miatapaul said:


> She seemed a bit eccentric to say the least.


Hey, it's England - they *define* the term.

There have been several similar, albeit less tragic, stories in the British yachting press this year. People with little or no experience buying boats and immediately leaving to sail them home. Ending up on the rocks just outside the harbour, dismasted and engineless within a few miles and so forth. The others I read about were all rescued by that remarkable British RNLI.

When you consider that London lies at the latitude of Prince Rupert or southern Alaska, it might give you some idea of the weather & sailing conditions these people are dealing with so casually.


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## Bradhamlet (Nov 8, 2002)

Could have just fell overboard, it happens and the results are usually bad
Brad 
Lancer 36


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

peterchech said:


> She paid 31,000 POUNDS for a 30 year old, 31' monohull? Isn't that like 45,000 bucks? Sounds like a scheme of some sort to me...


Check out prices in Blighty - it wasn't at all out of line for a decent Moody.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> How many nm is it from Mousehole to Bideford? How many hours would it take for a "normal" passage?


'Don't know Bideford but about 90. Once you round Lands End (she already had) and assuming the reported Westerly force 5, you'd want to be well off-shore and you'd expect a fast broad reach for most of the way. But there are rocky outcrops, including off Sennen Cove, and if you stayed close in, on a lee shore and were a bit off track... at night ...


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> Check out prices in Blighty - it wasn't at all out of line for a decent Moody.


+1. 
Until Hanse bought them, Moody hulls were built by by Marine Projects, who build super yachts and then fitted out by Moody. Good quality boats that retain their value. Not quite a Hinckley, but close. (BTW I'm currently shopping for a 425 so I'm a little biased).


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

Ninefingers said:


> They've found the boat now. Looks like she traveled about 15 miles or so from her start.
> 
> Missing Yachtswoman: Boat Found Off Cornwall | Orange UK


The wreckage likely IS hers, but it's by no means definite. If you read the linked article, there's really no more info than there was with the previous piece about "wreckage" being found. I did note that the photos from earlier show a bit of upholstery that seems to match the pre-sale interior photo.

I don't think there's really any mystery here, just somebody biting off more tan they could chew. Happens all the time with motorcycles and sports cars, and sometimes the nimrods live to learn the lesson. Sometimes they don't.
"Sometimes you eat the bar..."


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Man the trouble I could have got into if I had been able to simply buy aboat and head out in my youth, instead of having to take a while to save the money, learning all the while before heading out. However some one of such obesity, could have problems staying aboard, with such low, yachtie, flimsey lifelines, as the ones shown.


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## oysterman23 (Jul 22, 2011)

I just finished scanning all the news on her ....must agree with Smack and others that there is much more to this than has been written thus far.

..without saying anything about her state of mind she did not appear physically conditioned and without some serious time learning the boat and the rig and reef lines and scads of other things it is hard to imagine a person ten years younger being anything but severely taxed by the challenges of soloing an unfamiliar boat off that coast in the weather they were having. If she needed to attend to anything forward...she'd need to be able to set the autopilot one or two basics like that go bad and it's mission critical in a heartbeat. Anyway I hope the wreckage turns out not to be her boat and she is found alive.....


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

peterchech said:


> Ehhh, not sure about this on my end...
> 
> However I know plenty of men, older and younger, who would do bone headed things like this without thinking twice (a few are actually friends who I am contemplating buying a life insurance policy on), the type who know all there is to know about pretty much everything. The type who tell you that if they hit a little squall they don't need reef points they can just start the motor and get away from that lee shore, and besides they are good swimmers even without PFD's


Wasn't saying there aren't dumb risk takers out there. And anyway, as noted, this story seems to have more to it.

Forgetting all the oddities of this story, I was simply responding to the blanket statement that it is "unusual" for wife to sail the boat home while husband takes the car. That just does not raise any red flags for me, but again, maybe it's an age thing.


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

No body yet? Huh.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

So basically an elderly woman in moderate to poor physical condition with practically no sailing experience took a boat she had never sailed before offshore single-handed in foul-weather and is now missing?

I am sorry but Darwin has theories regarding people like this.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Harborless said:


> So basically an elderly woman


Hey! What's with this "elderly" bit? She was only 4 years older than me.

Damned kids got no respect.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I think there was a zombie in the forward anchor locker in hibernation. They do that in order to conserve energy. Once the boat left the dock and started rocking the zombie woke up hungry, left the anchor locker and proceeded to dine in the cockpit. Now no one
is left to handle the boat and it runs up on the rocks. That is my theory.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I guess she should have invited Seaboy to come along...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-buying-big-boat-but-i-have-never-sailed.html


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

caberg said:


> Wasn't saying there aren't dumb risk takers out there. And anyway, as noted, this story seems to have more to it.
> 
> Forgetting all the oddities of this story, I was simply responding to the blanket statement that it is "unusual" for wife to sail the boat home while husband takes the car. That just does not raise any red flags for me, but again, maybe it's an age thing.


I personally wouldn't let MY wife attempt this. I can hire a driver to move the car for 20quid, and at least come along so she has someone to go forward in case it is needed.

Personaly I wouldn't have even attempted this myself without a couple of experienced hired crew. (maybe another captain along as backup). This is the time of year you can get pounded up there.


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

I've been following the story, it stinks from top to bottom, what new/inexperienced sailor would head out at dark in a storm..????


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

This isn't about inexperience at all. I think this story comes down two three possibilities. 1. Murder, 2. Suicide, or 3. Life insurance fraud... My money is on the third.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

IronSpinnaker said:


> This isn't about inexperience at all. I think this story comes down two three possibilities. 1. Murder, 2. Suicide, or 3. Life insurance fraud... My money is on the third.


There are other possibilities, ZOMBIE ATTACK, parasite invaded her brain and
took control, alien abduction, she fell over board while peeing. Any number of
events could account for her disappearance.


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## SayGudday (Jan 5, 2011)

Sad.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Captainmeme said:


> There are other possibilities, ZOMBIE ATTACK, parasite invaded her brain and
> took control, alien abduction, she fell over board while peeing. Any number of
> events could account for her disappearance.


This is in bad taste.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

CBinRI said:


> This is in bad taste.


Which scenario is in bad taste? I didn't say she was a candidate for a Darwin award which I see you didn't comment on that, or accuse her of fraud or stupidity, or bad judgement. Granted the alien and zombie scenario is far fetched and even next to impossible but peeing over board then having your boat get hit by a rouge wave is very possible. We don't know what happened and yes it is very sad that this lady has possibly lost her life.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

If I was in that woman's place and my newly remarried spouse says, "Okay honey. If you want to take the boat back all alone, I'll let you. In the meantime, I'll take the car back and wait for you there. Be sure to call when you get in! Bye!"

The first thing I'd do is divorce the guy... again!

I can't imagine letting anyone you love and care about head out alone, at night, in rough weather, on a new boat neither of you know anything about to sail a treacherous coast. 

And to make that trip alone, you would either have to be drunk and so furious at your spouse you can't see straight or mentally unstable and married to someone who doesn't want you around anymore. Two people let this happen, the wife and the husband. They can't both be out of their minds. One of them had to know what she was getting into.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

The husband said that his wife was an experienced sailor and she had an expert to give her a refreshing course before leaving the dock . He dismissed that she is dead.

More from here:









Nevertheless, he has good taste, nice Porsche. 









Fears for 'Pawn Stars' millionairess, 65, who disappeared on new yacht's solo maiden voyage - just eight days after marrying same man for the second time | Mail Online


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

I thought I read the husband was 61?

And shouldn't there have been an EPIRB on board?


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> If I was in that woman's place and my newly remarried spouse says, "Okay honey. If you want to take the boat back all alone, I'll let you. In the meantime, I'll take the car back and wait for you there. Be sure to call when you get in! Bye!"
> 
> The first thing I'd do is divorce the guy... again!
> 
> ...


Whoa! That's a bit heavy. There is a world of difference between counseling against doing something and trying to stop someone. I have an ambition to do something that the admiral thinks is crazy and dangerous but she would never dream of trying to stop me, anymore than I would try to actually prevent her from doing something, no matter what my opinion. Trying to stop someone only results in conflict and resentment.

Having said that, no one here knows what took place between them - but the conjecture is rife.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

For the records, my wife never stops me. In fact I have hall passes and I can do anything I want.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Geoff54 said:


> Trying to stop someone only results in conflict and resentment.


...and, sometimes, in death.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> ...and, sometimes, in death.


We are all on a one way ticket


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Perhaps she had a heart attack.


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## captflood (Jan 1, 2011)

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS :- As a lot of you have already stated there is more to this than we know at this moument. This area is not the place to sail a boat you are unfamilar with and by yourself, at night, in bad weather. CONDOLANCES TO ALL INVOLVED. And thanks to search and rescue teams Sterrling work as usual. The plotting amongst us all reminds me of the canoeist two years ago faked his own death, and a old TV. program The rise and fall of Reginald Perrin. Conjecture all lets hope all is revialed the truth will out . AS ALWAYS GO SAFE.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Geoff54 said:


> Whoa! That's a bit heavy. There is a world of difference between counseling against doing something and trying to stop someone. I have an ambition to do something that the admiral thinks is crazy and dangerous but she would never dream of trying to stop me, anymore than I would try to actually prevent her from doing something, no matter what my opinion. Trying to stop someone only results in conflict and resentment.
> 
> Having said that, no one here knows what took place between them - but the conjecture is rife.


Not at all heavy. If he loved her he would not have allowed her to go alone. He had to have enough sense to know it was very dangerous, unless of course it was all part of a plan.



rockDAWG said:


> For the records, my wife never stops me. In fact I have hall passes and I can do anything I want.


I guess you have a big life insurance policy! I bet she makes sure it is paid up.



JulieMor said:


> ...and, sometimes, in death.


Yes true. I still think she is sitting on a beach somewhere. Just have a boat come pick her up from the boat and let it drift into the lee shore. All I can think of is Milton from Office Space sitting on the beach threatening to burn down the hotel because he did not like his drink...


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

miatapaul said:


> Not at all heavy. If he loved her he would not have allowed her to go alone.


Wow! Someone else who thinks they have the right to control the actions (stupid or otherwise) of another person. If my wife wanted to sail off by herself I'd ask if I could go with her but it's not my place to insist or forbid. She's my partner, not my property.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Geoff54 said:


> Wow! Someone else who thinks they have the right to control the actions (stupid or otherwise) of another person. If my wife wanted to sail off by herself I'd ask if I could go with her but it's not my place to insist or forbid. She's my partner, not my property.


Forbid maybe not, but insist, definitely - your wife is not your *partner* unless you are in business together - that's just yuppie P/C nonsense. She's your *wife* and as such is part of you, as you are part of her - if you love each other anyway.

Over a trip like that, I'd get insistent with a ROOMMATE or a co-worker or someone in the marina, let alone my wife.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> Forbid maybe not, but insist, definitely - your wife is not your *partner* unless you are in business together - that's just yuppie P/C nonsense. She's your *wife* and as such is part of you, as you are part of her - if you love each other anyway.
> 
> Over a trip like that, I'd get insistent with a ROOMMATE or a co-worker or someone in the marina, let alone my wife.


I was going to ignore this but I really resent being called a yuppie :hothead and rarely have I made an effort to be P/C. I guess you like the old love, honour and OBEY!!

I have a wonderful relationship in which neither person feels the need to impose anything on the other. I feel I have a duty to provide counsel and then support her decisions and I know she feels the same. The need to control someone is inadequacy not love.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

from yachting monthly--
Wreckage could be missing yachtswoman's boat
Mon, 15 Oct 2012 Dick Durham



Moody wreckage identified by Coastguard

The wreckage of a sailing boat, believed to be that of a missing solo yachtswoman has been found by Coastguards in Sennen Cove, Cornwall, but there is no sign of a body.

Millionairess Ona Mary Unwin, 65, bought Seagair, a Moody 31 with a banker's draft for £32,000 last Thursday.

She planned to sail from Mousehole in Cornwall to her home in Bideford, North Devon and set off on Saturday against advice by the agency who sold the boat, Falmouth Yacht Brokers, not to make the trip on her own.

Relatives in Bideford raised the alarm on Sunday after she failed to appear.

Jayne Hobkirk, of Falmouth Yacht Brokers, said Mrs Unwin had a 'captain's ticket', but deduced she hadn't done any sailing for many years.

Lifeboats from Penlee, Sennen and St Ives and helicopters from RAF Culdrose searched the area.

Mrs Unwin, 65, had remarried her millionaire husband Carol, 61, just days before he bought her the second-hand 31ft yacht with a banker's draft on Thursday.

A Coastguard spokesman told YM: 'We have been using photographs of the boat and have identified it as a Moody from some wrecked piece of the cockpit.' Soft furnishings from the wreck have also been recovered.

The search continues.


sad, yes


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Geoff54 said:


> I was going to ignore this but I really resent being called a yuppie :hothead and rarely have I made an effort to be P/C. I guess you like the old love, honour and OBEY!!
> 
> I have a wonderful relationship in which neither person feels the need to impose anything on the other. I feel I have a duty to provide counsel and then support her decisions and I know she feels the same. The need to control someone is inadequacy not love.


My apologies Geoff - I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you. That term "partner" is a bit of a red flag to my bull. I perceive it as an indication of some degree of a lack of commitment to ones spouse. A wife rates a different term describing her relationship to you than the guy you run a hardware store with or share a boat with.

And no, I don't believe in "obey" - read my post again. That doesn't mean I'm just going to say "Okay dear, your decision, have a nice time" if she plans on doing something I know to be extraordinarily hazardous or foolhardy.

In a case like the one under discussion, I'd go with her or insist someone else with adequate experience go.

If she wanted to go hangliding, I'd insist she get some instruction, not just go along with her buying one and jumping off somewhere high.

To me that's the difference between being a couple in a marriage and two people living together or POSSLQ's as the Canadian government terms them (persons of the opposite sex sharing living quarters).


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm with sloop on this, she's my wife, not some schmuck I couldn't care less about. She does not have to obey me, but she would not be making that trip. I'd deal with the consequences including divorce afterwards.
That does not mean that I think anything sinister is going on here. Sometimes people get through life being self absorbed, over confident and using ******** to get what they want. The little background there is seems to point in that direction. They get by on other people's kindness and luck. But sometimes there is nobody around to be kind,and sometimes there luck runs out.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> My apologies Geoff - I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you. That term "partner" is a bit of a red flag to my bull. I perceive it as an indication of some degree of a lack of commitment to ones spouse. A wife rates a different term describing her relationship to you than the guy you run a hardware store with or share a boat with.
> 
> And no, I don't believe in "obey" - read my post again. That doesn't mean I'm just going to say "Okay dear, your decision, have a nice time" if she plans on doing something I know to be extraordinarily hazardous or foolhardy.
> 
> ...


No need to apologize (well, except for calling me a yuppie  ) - no reason we should agree as long as it's kept reasonably civil.

Just as "partner" is a bit of a red flag to you, terms like "insist" are a red flag to me. I've never liked being told what I can or can't do and I wouldn't try to that to anyone else. I'll counsel, persuade, entreat but never insist. The good think about meeting the right person late in life is that you've already made the mistakes before  .

BTW - looking at the pictures, I have a sneaking suspicion which one was the dominant partner in that relationship.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

chamonix said:


> She does not have to obey me, but she would not be making that trip.


You do see the contradiction here, right?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Forbid maybe not, but insist, definitely - your wife is not your partner unless you are in business together - that's just yuppie P/C nonsense. She's your wife and as such is part of you, as you are part of her - if you love each other anyway-SloopJohnB


Nothing is absolute

My wife and I are equals in every sence of the word. I beleive she has the right to determione her own fate, what to do with her body, etc.

Remember in the instance of the Carribean 1500 a couple years ago where it *appeared *that the wife pleaded with her husband to get to shore because of many days of seasickness. It cost people their lives when he did head in

In the instance however when we are on a boat together, and I am the captain. I will FORBID her to do something which puts my life or anyone other than her own in danger. Not thats she ever would challenege me with that on the line but I would in that case FORBID it

Just saying


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

Geoff54 said:


> You do see the contradiction here, right?


I saw the contradiction when I wrote it. I guess my point is that some situations are hazardous enough to contradict the norm. If it makes you feel any better I would expect my wife to stop me from doing something foolish, and she would expect me to "obey".


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

This discussion over husband, wife, controlling, etc., took form when JulieMor suggested it would have been OK for husband to embark on this voyage, but not wife:



> I can maybe see the 61 year old husband saying, "I'll sail the boat back home. You drive back and meet me." But for the wife to say that? Very unusual.


This struck me as an odd thing for a woman to say, but anyway, I know plenty of very capable women who would be just as likely to "sail the boat back home" as their husband, partner or whomever.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> I know plenty of very capable women who would be just as likely to "sail the boat back home" as their husband, partner or whomever.
> Like -Caberg


Yes me too

Something is rotten in Denmark with this whole story. It may take a while for it to totally unfold

Dave


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Well, looks like we have ****** one for "As the Sails Set" - a weekly soap opera about the loves and lives of single handed sailors. A good team of writers could milk this out for a whole season.

Those astericks are for transcript without the tran. Why was this censored?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

You know my zombie theory isn't that far fetched. In place of a zombie we put in a hired hit man. I'm not accusing anyone. Anyone see the movie series Bourne? The killer hides 
out on a yacht he knows that the target will purchase. Once the boat is out to sea, the killer leaves his hiding place and proceeds to his target. I won't say what happens but I could see this scenario playing out in this case.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Captainmeme said:


> You know my zombie theory isn't that far fetched. In place of a zombie we put in a hired hit man. I'm not accusing anyone. Anyone see the movie series Bourne? The killer hides
> out on a yacht he knows that the target will purchase. Once the boat is out to sea, the killer leaves his hiding place and proceeds to his target. I won't say what happens but I could see this scenario playing out in this case.


Dude, you have quite a fertile (or maybe fever-fueled) imagination.

*"YachtBourne Zombie Hitmen: A Retrospective.*"
A new Meme by CM.​
It seems this is the leading warning to newbies to emerge from this thread.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
> For the records, my wife never stops me. In fact I have hall passes and I can do anything I want.





miatapaul said:


> I guess you have a big life insurance policy! I bet she makes sure it is paid up.


Hahah.... Indeed, she has faithfully been paying the invoices annually for my $1.5 MM life insurance.

All kidding aside, After more than 30 years marriage I have earned her trust over and over again. I beleive that it is my attention to details, thorough and unemotional thought processes, and putting family first that she is comfortable with my decisions. Sometimes, I wish she would challenge my decision more, becasue it put a lot more burden on me.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

caberg said:


> This discussion over husband, wife, controlling, etc., took form when JulieMor suggested it would have been OK for husband to embark on this voyage, but not wife


You misinterpreted what I said. What I was saying is for a man to embark on that kind of voyage alone is far more common than for a woman to do so, when neither has any real sailing experience and especially when the woman is 65. Men do a lot of crazy things. You only need to watch one of those "amazing video" shows to know that.

I can guarantee you if my husband was about to do something like that and I had even the slightest idea how dangerous it was, I would certainly voice my disapproval. I wouldn't care if we argued or became angry with each other. It's his life and well being that would matter most to me. We can always kiss and makeup but you can't bring someone back from the dead. And if he insisted on going, I would go with him, not wish him well and say, "See you later!"


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

chamonix said:


> I'm with sloop on this, she's my wife, not some schmuck I couldn't care less about. She does not have to obey me, but she would not be making that trip. I'd deal with the consequences including divorce afterwards.


So you'd tie her up and stuff her in a closet or something?

Quit thumping your chest. 

Apparently she has some experience. It's more likely she had a stroke or a heart attack.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> My wife and I are equals in every sence of the word. I beleive she has the right to determione her own fate, what to do with her body, etc.


But where's the "We" in that? My wife and I regard ourselves as two 1/2's of a whole, not two completely separate and individual people - that's for dating.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Captainmeme said:


> You know my zombie theory isn't that far fetched. In place of a zombie we put in a hired hit man. I'm not accusing anyone. Anyone see the movie series Bourne? The killer hides
> out on a yacht he knows that the target will purchase. Once the boat is out to sea, the killer leaves his hiding place and proceeds to his target. I won't say what happens but I could see this scenario playing out in this case.


A killer hiding for hours on a 30 footer?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> We can always kiss and makeup


Well known as one of the best parts of marriage.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just want to say that Meme's zombie theories are far, far, far more enjoyable than the politically charged drivel as to what constitutes a more perfect union between plump old chicks and dudes.

Take it to PRWG. Yeesh.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

chamonix said:


> I'm with sloop on this, she's my wife, not some schmuck I couldn't care less about. She does not have to obey me, but she would not be making that trip. I'd deal with the consequences including divorce afterwards.


Well, you really must love her to make that sacrifice.

If an argument is based on one spouse wanting to sail into eel-infested waters, all alone, in the dark of night, directly into a storm, along rocky shoals and the other wanting their spouse to live another day results in divorce... Maybe someone has their priorities a bit skewed.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JulieMor said:


> We can always kiss and makeup


Yes, the make up sex is the best.


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

Sublime said:


> So you'd tie her up and stuff her in a closet or something?
> 
> Quit thumping your chest.
> 
> Apparently she has some experience. It's more likely she had a stroke or a heart attack.


Ooh, a little face thing. Okay! Okay! I,ll stop thumping my chest. My chest was getting sore anyway.


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

sailingfool said:


> I guess she should have invited Seaboy to come along...
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-buying-big-boat-but-i-have-never-sailed.html


LOL! Good one! :laugher :laugher :laugher

Hitting that shore (or any of the many offshore rocks), that Ferro boat wouldn't have fared any better.


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> This isn't about inexperience at all. I think this story comes down two three possibilities. 1. Murder, 2. Suicide, or 3. Life insurance fraud... My money is on the third.


Seems to be quite a few people on this thread that hear hooves and immediately think "Zebras!"


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by chef2sail
> My wife and I are equals in every sence of the word. I beleive she has the right to determione her own fate, what to do with her body, etc.
> 
> But where's the "We" in that? My wife and I regard ourselves as two 1/2's of a whole, not two completely separate and individual people - that's for dating.
> Like - SloopJohnB


John, thats condescending and I know you probably didnt mean it that way. It is not for dating

WE are equals and equally bonded. I do not have the right to tell her what to do with her body whether we are married or not. If my wife was very ill and wanted to die I would say thats her choioce. I dont have the right to keep her alive against her wishes.
It has nothing to do with the WE

If she got pregnant again ( shes 60 know so that doubtfull) but if she did I nor any state entity has the right to foce her to come to term with that baby. Her body is hers and no amount of WE changes that.

Dave


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

It's quite possible that the husband doesn't have the slightest clue how potentially dangerous this trip was. I would venture to say that MOST average non-sailors wouldn't, either.

People do stupid, dangerous things all the time. Every time they get away with it makes them more likely to repeat that behavior. Sooner or later, it bites them in the ass. 

I only have to drive about 3 miles on the freeway on my way from home to work, and back, and on average I'll see at LEAST one person texting or emailing on their phone while driving (I have a 4x4 truck, great vantage point to see people doing stupid, dangerous things). And this less than ten miles from the site of a head on train collision four years ago that killed 25 people - caused by the the engineer of the commuter train texting.

It doesn't take hit men, or insurance fraud, or zombies. Just the "it won't happen to me" attitude.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> I just want to say that Meme's zombie theories are far, far, far more enjoyable than the politically charged drivel as to what constitutes a more perfect union between plump old chicks and dudes.
> 
> Take it to PRWG. Yeesh.


I don't mind you calling me a "dude" by my sweetie is not a "plump old chick"


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## millerandy (Oct 17, 2011)

An interesting take from someone who apparently knew the couple well. I can't post the link to Canal World Discussion Forums, but here's the post:

"I am fed uip with reading fictional accounts of Oona Mary Unwin and her husband Carol.
Carol Unwin inherited his money and is not a property developer.
He had a very bad motor racing accident at the age of 21 and has been mentally and physically damaged since then.
Mary Unwin married him purely for his money which she then proceeded to spend.
He asked for a divorce which went through in 2011.
He remarried her on the 5th October and she bought the yacht on the 11th October continuing her habit of spending his money.
She always thought she knew everything and noone else knew anything.
He was totally under her spell and believed her every word.
Even when she told him she was an expert sailor.
Carol has balance problems and his speech is slurred.
She was always very self centred and head strong.
That is the truth.
I was reluctantly his best man at their first wedding.
Do not believe what you read in the newspapers."


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

millerandy said:


> An interesting take from someone who apparently knew the couple well. I can't post the link to Canal World Discussion Forums, but here's the post:
> 
> "I am fed up with reading fictional accounts of Oona Mary Unwin and her husband Carol. Carol Unwin inherited his money and is not a property developer. He had a very bad motor racing accident at the age of 21 and has been mentally and physically damaged since then. Mary Unwin married him purely for his money which she then proceeded to spend. He asked for a divorce which went through in 2011. He remarried her on the 5th October and she bought the yacht on the 11th October continuing her habit of spending his money. She always thought she knew everything and no one else knew anything. He was totally under her spell and believed her every word. Even when she told him she was an expert sailor. Carol has balance problems and his speech is slurred. She was always very self centred and head strong. That is the truth.
> 
> I was reluctantly his best man at their first wedding. Do not believe what you read in the newspapers."​


If the foregoing is remotely correct, a certain poetic justice may have been served up, eh?


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

chamonix said:


> I'm with sloop on this, she's my wife, not some schmuck I couldn't care less about. She does not have to obey me, but she would not be making that trip. I'd deal with the consequences including divorce afterwards.
> That does not mean that I think anything sinister is going on here. Sometimes people get through life being self absorbed, over confident and using ******** to get what they want. The little background there is seems to point in that direction. They get by on other people's kindness and luck. But sometimes there is nobody around to be kind,and sometimes there luck runs out.


Might be a bit premature but TAADAA.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

svHyLyte said:


> If the foregoing is remotely correct, a certain poetic justice may have been served up, eh?


Particularly if he had her insured.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

West Morning News
Thursday, October 18, 2012

_Wreckage of a yacht washed up across a long stretch of West Cornwall has been positively identified as belonging to a millionaire lone yachtswoman.

"One piece of the wreckage had an identification number from which we were able to confirm the name of the yacht.

"The spread of the wreckage was very large, from just south of Land's End to Godrevy and Hayle."

Emergency services called off the search operation on Tuesday and it is believed there is no chance for Mrs Unwin, known as Mary, to have survived._

It's still possible they could find the body. When I was 12 I has the misfortune of finding the body of a sailor who had been lost overboard two months prior. But that was in Lake Michigan.

Moral of the story: Know your limits.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Debris field:

Well, maybe she did nothing wrong and just got hit by a big meteorite.

File under "sh|t happens".


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## steel (Sep 1, 2010)

I think there is a possibility that she is just fine and her trip went according to plan. The ship that picked her up would have then rammed her abandoned boat. edit: or let it drift in to the lee shore as was mentioned before. When people get rich, it only increases their desire to get richer.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I think, like it matters, the police would investigate the life insurance angle first. Looks really bad to pull a million dollar policy one day and have the insured disappear the next.

My new theory, arrived at after some liquid lubrication, is this. The jilted girl friend of the remarried husband has her real boy friend do the deed. The plan hatched by the two, jilted girl friend and her boy friend was to have the jilted girl friend marry the remarried husband, whack him for the estate, then the girl friend and the boy friend live happily ever after. But the missing wife threw a monkey wrench in that plan by remarrying the husband. Now with the wife gone the original plan can be executed. 

I still like zombie in the forward locker scenario but that is a bit unrealistic. My new scenario is realistic and has been done many times throughout history.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Captainmeme said:


> I think, like it matters, the police would investigate the life insurance angle first. Looks really bad to pull a million dollar policy one day and have the insured disappear the next.
> 
> My new theory, arrived at after some liquid lubrication, is this. The jilted girl friend of the remarried husband has her real boy friend do the deed. The plan hatched by the two, jilted girl friend and her boy friend was to have the jilted girl friend marry the remarried husband, whack him for the estate, then the girl friend and the boy friend live happily ever after. But the missing wife threw a monkey wrench in that plan by remarrying the husband. Now with the wife gone the original plan can be executed.
> 
> I still like zombie in the forward locker scenario but that is a bit unrealistic. My new scenario is realistic and has been done many times throughout history.


By the look of it the husband is a zombie.

Basically to prove fraud they have to find her alive, if she hides out well enough, they won't find her. But given her likeness for a flashy lifestyle I imagine they will find her if it is fraud.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

So she took the boat out into eel-infested waters. When she was far enough out, she jumped overboard. The eels began to screech and...


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Oh, bummer, the seven year rule...*

I am not implying that this is a case of insurance fraud by any means and I still view this whole situation as a tragedy for the families.

In regard to the suggestion she might have faked her death - faking your death on a boat is not such a great idea.

There is a common law rule that a missing person is not presumed dead for seven years, unless the circumstantial evidence leads to the inescapable conclusion of death.

I am not sure what the rule is in England, but in many states, it's so sorry, no insurance money for seven years...

There was a man recently in the U.S. who at least tried crashing his private plane to fake his death (a much more sure thing than being missing off a boat). The investigators determined it was a fake and he was subsequently found, arrested and convicted.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Oh, bummer, the seven year rule...*



jameswilson29 said:


> I am not implying that this is a case of insurance fraud by any means and I still view this whole situation as a tragedy for the families.
> 
> In regard to the suggestion she might have faked her death - faking your death on a boat is not such a great idea.
> 
> ...


I think finding the scraps of a wrecked boat on the Cornish coast would qualify as "inescapable conclusion of death."


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

*Re: Oh, bummer, the seven year rule...*



jameswilson29 said:


> I am not implying that this is a case of insurance fraud by any means and I still view this whole situation as a tragedy for the families.
> 
> In regard to the suggestion she might have faked her death - faking your death on a boat is not such a great idea.
> 
> ...


Oh I agree that there is no evidence of fraud, but the actions are so out of character of someone in sound mind that it is what makes one think of it.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

There are better ways to commit insurance fraud, ones in which you have a good chance of actually surviving. If she was an experienced sailor she would have known the risks. The whole thing defies logic.

But people can do very strange things. I read about two guys who decided to fake an accident. They got drunk, staged a motorcycle accident, then one of the guys proceeded to try to chop off his foot off with a hatchet. He said it hurt so bad he had to get even drunker.  They got caught. Hatchet guy had his foot amputated (they couldn't save it) then they both went to jail. You just never know.


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