# Buy used Catalina or Island Packet?



## saltypat (Oct 8, 2006)

It may sound crazy, but I have narrowed my boat choices down to a Catalina 30 or and IP31.

Does anyone have any idea of how much slower I might sailing in the IP, or how much less I could sail to windward? 

The IP is cutter rigged with a furling genoa *probably 135) and may have the centerboard. (Would there be any difference is sailing characteristics between the IP fixed keel and centerboard version?)

Also the Catalina is an early 1990s model with the wing keel, and the IP would be a 1984 or 85 vintage.

I sail on the Chesapeake Bay.

Thanks for any advice, much appreciated.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

I'll be hopefully buying a cat30 in the next yrear or two - cat 30's are rather slow - avg speed around 5-6 knots with a max of high 7 or 8 knots - hope the IP31 isn't slower than that.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Let's see, I have owned a Catalina 250, 320, 380, now a 400. Hmm, let me think a moment about how I would direct you...

Ahh, well, I made my decision: Catalina!!

HAHA

In all honesty, it is a sold boat. You are not going to win any races with either one of them unless you have one serious handicap (or just cheat and use your engine when no one is looking like I do). IP is a great boat. I have heard people knock them and for the life of me I do not understand why. I am sure Jeff will chime in with a lot more detail than I can (and would probably point you to the IP) but either boat is a good boat. They both have great owners groups, but I will say this: Think of the pride and friends you will have when you say:

"Hey, I got the same make ole' Cruising Dad has!!" Well, on second thought, if friendships mean anything to you, maybe you ought to consider the IP instead.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Look out I can see it coming, IP's get bashed quite a bit around these parts. (So does my boat, But I won't let that bother me)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pat...I take it you are not a racer...just don't want a pig...correct?
If so, I would say that youll see a speed difference of 1/4-1/2 knot on a reach and point a bit lower but there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way both boats are built and HOLD their value in favor of the IP. I've owned 2 Cats and loved them and think highly of the 30 as well...but the IP is the better built boat assuming they are both in good condition.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

On our dock, we are flanked by a Catalina 36 and an IP38 and I have sailed on both. I have also driven in a Chevy Celebrity station wagon and a Mercedes station wagon of similar vintage. Although a cliche' analogy, my experiences from both, formed interesting parallels.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TB,

Quit calling the IP a chevy, that is not nice! 

Cam,

You traitor! Next thing you will be saying is that Tayana makes a better boat than Catalina. Hmph.

(SMILE EVERYBODY)

Don't you worry. Jeff H will see this soon and he will take my side. Just you watch. Jeff?? Jeff! Tell them Catalina makes the fastest, most steady, safe boat in the world? Jeff? (He seems to have left the building or is nicely trying to decide what to say back to me)


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

ok, for more "blue" water look at the IP, for more "creature comfort and room" look at the Catalina.... 'Dad, my personal choice would be the Catalina 30.

So, fork over the schekles for either one, and go sailing willya?


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

One yardstick is to compare PHRF ratings for the boats. On the Chesapeake, the Cat 30 rates 177-189 depending on the rig and the keel, etc. Unfortunately, no one has filed for a PHRF rating for an IP-31 -- the closest is an IP-320, which ought to be faster than the 31. The 320 rates 231 on the bay. In short, the Catalina is much faster.

I once ran down an IP-38 in my old Pearson 27, going down wind in about 10 kts apparent. I was going from Solomons to Oxford. They looked quite surprised as I went by them because they were barely moving.

I'd buy the Catalina just because it has a winged keel!!! Love those wings!

You've picked two very different boats to compare. You need to decide what's important to you for the kind of sailing you want to do.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Chessy Bay has many active Catalina groups, and dealers too. The 30 is a solid, stable boat for the Bay. Check out how each boat is equiped too. Will you need to spend boat bucs upgrading? Just go sailing!!


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## saltypat (Oct 8, 2006)

*Comments helpful!*

HI,
Just read the postings-

They have all been helpful and wildly entertaining. 
Anyoner else care to voice an opinion?

Still deciding,

Saltypat


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

From what I understand, the choice is really up to what kind of sailing you plan on doing more of. The Cat30 is better suited to coastal sailing, racing, and daysailing than the IP31. The IP31 is better suited to bluewater passages. Speed seems to be an issue for you...which would lead me to believe you'll be much happier with the Cat30, rather than the slower IP31. One is a fin or wing keel boat, the other is a a full keel or keelstub/centerboard boat.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I haven't had much experience with IPs, but it was consistent with everything I heard about them. I chartered an IP 31 once and had mostly light air. After shaking and baking until I couldn't stand it anymore, I gave up trying to sail it, and motored most of the time. 

I have sailed C30s a little, and have raced against them. IMHO, the Catalina 30 would be a much better choice for sailing on the Chesapeake. Between the IP 31 and the C30, the tall rig C30 would probably be my first choice for the Bay, because it's increased sail area keeps the boat going in light air. When the wind pipes up, you'll naturally need to reef the tall rig a little sooner than the standard rig, but most of the time, you'll be glad you have the extra sail area.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that the C30 doesn't sail well. I think it's probably because they are often sailed by people who cruise with their families. If they ever race the boat, they aren't likely to prep it very well for racing, and they often lack racing experience. I've often thought that a good racing sailor with a well prepped C30, with a tall rig and fin keel could have a lot of fun racing it on the Bay, and I don't think it would be difficult to sail it better than it's rating. From what I've seen, the C30 sails as well as most cruising boats of it's era.

Continuing the Chevy analogy, traditionally, there has always a strong market for a nice, used Chevy, when you want to sell it.

These are two boats built to a price point and built to a purpose, and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum. The IP is more expensively, built, and the Catalina is not. The IP is more heavily built, and can stand up to more wind and bigger seas, and the Catalina is not. The IP will serve you better in the conditions for which it is designed, and the same is true of the Catalina. IMHO, the Catalina is more appropriate for the Bay. Personally, I just don't see the logic in buying a boat that is over-built for your intended purposes.


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## Bluewater4us (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok I'll give another opinion... not!!!! Go with the catalina. I had and learned on a 25 and now I am in a 36 and I love it. My buddy has a 36 and he loves it. What else is therjoy ite to really say. Put the money down on the Catalina and enjoy it


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I looked at both Island Packets and Cat's very recently (we ended up with a Passport). They are two different boats. 

As everyone has said, IP's are bluewater boats, much more solid and will stand up to a 40+ knot blow. They will track much better over long distances due to their full keels. They will pound through 10 foot waves and you won't have to worry about tabs breaking loose or hull flex. They are a bluewater boat. They won't point as high, they won't sail as fast, and they will be very difficult to steer in reverse (once again, full keel). They can carry a lot more sail before you have to reef.

The Catalina has a larger dealer support network, more websites that will tell you how to modify them, lots of specialized parts available specifically for the manufacturer, but will also be much more tender in higher winds and heavy seas. I know which boat I'd rather be in though. They will also be roomier and better for entertaining, and most likely your non-sailing friends will be much more impressed with the look of a Catalina interior vs. an older IP. The quality of the standing rigging and the construction will be lower on a Catalina.

One other consideration - if you are only looking to have the boat for a few years and will then be looking to upgrade, consider how easy the boat will be to sell. On inland lakes, it will be more difficult to sell an IP than a Catalina. The IP will hold its value for far longer than a Catalina.

Personally, I'd pick the IP any day over the Catalina (for me), but we may have two completely different lists of requirements in a boat.


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## chuck711 (Dec 25, 2002)

*Apples and Oranges. Full Keel or Fin Keel*

This is very easy!

If you are going to cruise buy a IP. Full keel Great cruising boat.
Tough to get in and out of marinas hard to turn in a short turning circle.
Heavier construction and cost more. A 31 IP is pretty small boat.

Catalina. Has a shorter keel length. Easy to turn in a short distance.
Great day sailor. A lot cheaper construction however is priced as such.

If going with a " Fin " Keel design look at other more quality built boats.
Tarton,Contessa or my favorite Cal.

We traveled 8000 nm on a Cal 33 from Detroit to Trinidad then back to NC.

cl[email protected]


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

On the Chesapeake Bay speed and windward performance really make a big difference in the range that is comfortable to cover in a weekend. In rough terms 30 seconds a mile is a huge difference in range, which on the Chesapeake translates to perhaps a couple dozen more anchorage options on any given weekend and an easier time going wherever you chose to go. A little bit more speed makes a really big difference on a longer cruise or some of the longer point to point legs on the southern Bay. 

There is over a minute a mile difference in speed between these boats. While ratings aren't everything, that is a huge difference in speed and in this case this difference is even far more significant that it might otherwise seem. 

The Chesapeake is known for its predominantly light winds. Light to medium air performance can make a huge difference in the number of days that you can actually sail vs having to motor here. Boats like the Island Packet, which have worse than terrible light to medium air performance, are reduced to being little more trawlers with a mast for much of the sailing season, motoring from place to place, or not going out at all on otherwise decent, but light sailing weather. 

Additionally, the IP 31 cutters were a pain in the butt to tack, stopping in their tracks on each tack, with the genoa trapped backwinded against the jibstay. One of the nice things about the Chesapeake is its comparatively wide rivers that are fun to sail up and down. But all too often this means a fairly long beat and a fairly long run, neither of which is the IP 31's strong suit, and with the IP's difficult tacking, a bunch of nice sailing opportunities would be lost. 

The Centerboard version of the IP should offer better upwind and downwind sailing capabilities but not that much better. 

But as I read your original post, the one thing that struck me is that these are such diametrically different boats, (other than offering a lot of room for a given sailing length) being nearly the opposite in every way possible, that I could not imagine how you ended up trying to decide between just these two boats. It might be helpful if you explained how you came down to a decision between just these two models, a choice that does seem a little crazy.

Respectfully,

Jeff


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Jeff...you said
*On the Chesapeake Bay speed and windward performance really make a big difference in the range that is comfortable to cover in a weekend. In rough terms 30 seconds a mile is a huge difference in range,

*I am at a loss to understand how you come to this conclusion. If we use a 50 mile trip (i.e. TWICE the widest point of the bay)...we end up with the slower boat coming in 1/2 hour later than the faster boat. 
I don't see how this would make any difference to the average weekend cruiser. 
No doubt light air performance is worse too...but my own observation after 22 years in the bay is that when then wind drops to 5-10...the iron genny's come on regardless of the brand for most weekend cruisers (as distinct from performance oriented sailors who wouldn't be considering either boat.)
As I previously said...I am a fan of both boats and you correctly point out that the IP is slower...but the IP has advantages in heavier weather, sail plan (cutter/self-tending rig), build quality,interior joinery and resale. I can understand exactly how "salty" is thinking and why with no other plans than bay sailing he might be conflicted in his choice.


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## saltypat (Oct 8, 2006)

Hi,
I want to thank you all for your input. It has been a big help. I especially enjoyed the speed discussions and now know what a PHRF rating means (looked it up)....

I am putting an offer on a sailboat after the new year, and it happens to be neither Catalina or IP.
Best wishes for the holidays, Pat


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pat...Just as long as it is not a McGregor! (REALLY - just kidding guys...it was too easy to resist!)


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*And the answer is.....?*



saltypat said:


> Hi,
> I want to thank you all for your input. It has been a big help. I especially enjoyed the speed discussions and now know what a PHRF rating means (looked it up)....
> 
> I am putting an offer on a sailboat after the new year, and it happens to be neither Catalina or IP.
> Best wishes for the holidays, Pat


Pat,

Care to enlighten us on your decision? We promise to be kind. Besides, we do want to know! Otherwise we will have to make something up.

Fair winds in your purchase journey.


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## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

Just one word.....TRAWLER


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

Denr said:


> Just one word.....TRAWLER


Den -- But he said he wasn't buying an IP!


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## saltypat (Oct 8, 2006)

Here's the story- I went off to look at a few more boats, and happened to accidentally see again the first boat I looked at in October, a Morgan 32, 1985 (I had no intention of looking at it again). I decided I am going to make an offer after the holidays (office closed now), and hopefully we can agree on price and it has a good survey. I first rejected it because of conditions which are fixable (needs interior cushions, sails, bimini, teak refinishing, etc.).... I happen to like the boat as I once owned a Morgan 38...The 32 should as fast as a Catalina 30, it is as sure-footed walking the decks as an Island Packet, and it has a traditional look. 
Now only say nice things about my choice, as I am a grandmother who is looking forward to sailing again after more than 10 years without a sailboat of my own...
Happy Holidays, Pat


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