# At Last! Definitive Self Defense for Sailors



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Having circumnavigated in the 70's, voyaging to some pretty "dangerous" places like the Sudan and SE Asia, I always felt comfortable with a 30.30 carbine and a double barrel 12 gauge w/ 00 buckshot for defense.
However, with the new breed of "pirate" attacking sailing boats with evil intent, those weapons seem of little value against a handful of aggressors armed w/ AK's in a very fast, maneuverable craft.
As a professional captain, I am very familiar with the laws regarding firearms where I've traveled. Quite simply; "war weapons" including the ancient M1 carbine amazingly, are a definitely NOT acceptable ANYWHERE. Pistols are frowned on by most countries and if reported, may need to be held ashore. 
Sporting weapons, on the other hand are not a huge problem anywhere. 
After many hours of web-searching, numerous emails to chemists (I was considering some sort of napalm like defense) I really had not found anything I thought would be of real value.
Last evening I received an email from a friend with this link; Dragons Breath in action 



This one MIGHT do the trick! Though they may be illegal in some places, with the shells secreted in a box of buckshot or whatever; they are pretty easy to hide, and they require only a single shot 12 gauge (I doubt that you'd need more than one shot if you delivered one of these on target). I'm impressed!
Any thoughts?


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Claymore fenders!

Down


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

I wish they'd have shown the shell. I like the whole flamethrower / napalm idea. If you get shipwrecked and have to start a fire using wet wood all would not be lost.

As far as defense, I wonder if we aren't overlooking the obvious? What about a high speed dinghy with 4 Nissan 5hp motors on the back? You could rig your sailboat for self destruct and escape on the dinghy. When the Somali pirates board your vessel it's curtains! I want one with a motion-detector timer. When the pirates enter the salon, the timer comes on and counts down in big digital letters... 3-2-1... just so they know their ass is grass before the fireball happens. Very Schwarzenneggar movie-esque, don't you think?

I don't know how you say, "Ga-aaha-aahh LET'S GET OWT UV EEEAAAHHHH!!! GAAA-AA-AAAH!" in Somali but I'm sure that's how it would go down. 

About the time it explodes you sit up in your high speed dinghy as it zips along undetected by the pirate mother ship. Don't look back though. You can't look as though fireballs are unexpected.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

capta said:


> Any thoughts?


Looks like a good way to set your boat on fire.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Fstbttms said:


> Looks like a good way to set your boat on fire.


I thought about that, but if they're coming alongside and you shove the shotgun outboard, you might get a few burns on the deck, but that seems preferable to the alternative. I played the video numerous times and the stuff that fell close to the muzzle appeared to extinguish pretty quickly even on grass?
Anyway you look at self defense on a small craft, it's going to be a very serious and potentially deadly situation and one's only chance for survival would be to totally incapacitate the bad guys immediately, as an AK can spit out an awful lot of lead pretty quickly. I for one am not going to limit my voyaging, within reason (I won't go near Venezuela right now!), because some assh*le wants to steal from us and take our lives.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

It looks like someone shot that round into a pile of fuel-soaked wood, and I suspect the impact on a boat wouldn't be as dramatic. Also, if the target boat was carrying guys with AKs...they just might respond by opening up on full automatic and ignore the sparkles.

A sporting shotgun, a conventional double-barrel, isn't going to do much against automatic weapons. Those guys KNOW you've only got two shots. And, they have a much longer range than you do. They can fall back to a hundred yards, where your shotgun is useless, and pick their targets at leisure.


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## dacap06 (Feb 2, 2008)

Great googly moogly! What is that stuff? White Phosphorus?


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

downeast450 said:


> Claymore fenders!
> 
> Down


Remember: "Front Toward Dock"


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah they are just incendiary rounds... they contain Phosphorus. The down side is that they burn from the end of the barrel to about 200-300 ft out. The pile of wood had to have fuel on it and the round is just used for ignition. On their own they will not start much on fire... Probably could set a fiberglass boat on fire though... and they are scary as hell when fired.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

OK - I've gotta ask - there seems to have been a lot of these "what's the best weapon to carry for self-defense against pirates" threads lately....is that because there is an actual increase in piracy in the areas most people cruise?


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Yeah they are just incendiary rounds... they contain Phosphorus. The down side is that they burn from the end of the barrel to about 200-300 ft out. The pile of wood had to have fuel on it and the round is just used for ignition. On their own they will not start much on fire... Probably could set a fiberglass boat on fire though... and they are scary as hell when fired.


This looks interesting also:

Delta Force | 12 GA. Exploder

"Make my day, do you feel lucky, punk?"

Sorry, have to go take my medications.

Paul T


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

dabnis said:


> This looks interesting also:
> 
> Delta Force | 12 GA. Exploder


Those are also called "bird bombs". They are used to scare pigeons off of bridges and such.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

I think if you took a bunch of those loads and interspersed them with buckshot and loaded them in a Street Sweeper you could convince most pirates to change occupations.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

flyingwelshman said:


> Remember: "Front Toward Dock"


Labeled:

*"Morituri te salutamus"*

Down


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

FSMike said:


> I think if you took a bunch of those loads and interspersed them with buckshot and loaded them in a Street Sweeper you could convince most pirates to change occupations.


No, they would just shake their heads in disbelief as you attempt stop the magnesium in the round from burning its way through your skin.

Those rounds are not meant to be shot by an autoloader. If you are lucky, the backpressure won't be sufficient to cycle the mechanism. If you are unlucky, then the round will be ejected. But since they burn for up to 2 seconds the incendiary shell will still be burning when ejected and will most certainly do the shooter damage.

We tested these types of rounds years ago and despite being a great party gag I wouldn't dream of using it aboard a ship. One couldn't use it in an enclosed or partially enclosed space and thus one would turn a powerful firearm into an expensive metal club.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bigdogandy said:


> OK - I've gotta ask - there seems to have been a lot of these "what's the best weapon to carry for self-defense against pirates" threads lately....is that because there is an actual increase in piracy in the areas most people cruise?


Ironically, worldwide, is just the opposite.

Report: Sea piracy drops to lowest level in four years - CNN.com

Areas that most people cruise have none, such as New England.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

bigdogandy said:


> OK - I've gotta ask - there seems to have been a lot of these "what's the best weapon to carry for self-defense against pirates" threads lately....is that because there is an actual increase in piracy in the areas most people cruise?


*Welcome to the new SailNet!*


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> Ironically, worldwide, is just the opposite.
> 
> Report: Sea piracy drops to lowest level in four years - CNN.com
> 
> Areas that most people cruise have none, such as New England.


Don't bring facts into the discussion, it would spoil all the fun for the would-be Rambos. When you are actually out cruising there are lots of things to worry about, pirates are so far down the list as to be non-existent. A prediction, piracy is so much in decline in the Western Indian Ocean that circumnavigations will routinely be going the Red Sea route within three years, although having gone the Cape route if someone asked I would suggest coming this way.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> > Originally Posted by bigdogandy View Post
> > OK - I've gotta ask - there seems to have been a lot of these "what's the best weapon to carry for self-defense against pirates" threads lately....is that because there is an actual increase in piracy in the areas most people cruise?
> 
> 
> ...


While piracy worldwide - primarily against merchant shipping - may be on the decline, there have definitely been some incidents within the past year or so in areas before considered to be relatively safe, that should give cruisers pause... The recent attacks in Belize, and Bocas del Toro, are just two such examples...

Cruisers will simply have to modify their notion of what constitutes "Paradise", it seems to me...

Although there might not be a palm tree in sight, I'll chose the sort of place where a stranger might inform you that the keys are always left in that pickup truck over there, if you should want to borrow it to make a run to the general store a couple of miles down the road, over a place like present-day Honduras, every single time...


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't even get me started on the "Pirates of the Great Salt Lake"....!!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

bigdogandy said:


> OK - I've gotta ask - there seems to have been a lot of these "what's the best weapon to carry for self-defense against pirates" threads lately....is that because there is an actual increase in piracy in the areas most people cruise?


Though the commercial shipping in the Indian Ocean may be a bit safer (or better defended?) "piracy" against yachts is definitely on the increase. In some areas of Central America there has been an increase in crimes against cruisers. Some of these have been in areas that one might pass through to get to another destination, not necessarily where one wants to cruise. Venezuela is plain dangerous to visit in any way, but for yachts it's really stupid. We've many friends who have had to give up going there in the hurricane season, even though for many years it was a favorite. 
But even here in Bequia, an island that depends primarily on yacht tourism, there was a yacht owner shot this year aboard his boat and many more break-ins while folks were ashore for dinner.
Being boarded while underway is a situation that I want to have a defense for, and with the Dragon Breath perhaps if I got one shot in the attacker's boat at close range and on them (hopefully including the gas cans), we might sustain some damage, but we'd be alive and no longer under siege.
I do not know if this little 12 gauge shell would do the job, but it appears to be a viable option. It definitely will not work in any auto gun; not enough pressure to co*k the gun. One or two (double barrel) shots is all you'd get and if the attackers are not instantly incapacitated, well, I guess we can all imagine that outcome.
Things are changing and it's unfortunate, but true. This is our life, full time voyaging, and I'm damned well going to live it without worrying a great deal about what might happen. But, just as so many of you new to cruising have plans for this and that, and back up plans for those, I don't see the harm in searching for a fairly intelligent, effective and non-illegal form of self protection.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Zanshin -
Thanks for the info.


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## SayGudday (Jan 5, 2011)

Interesting. I'd like to play around with one for a while. Not sure it'd be my first choice but I could be swayed.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Yeah they are just incendiary rounds... they contain Phosphorus. The down side is that they burn from the end of the barrel to about 200-300 ft out. The pile of wood had to have fuel on it and the round is just used for ignition. On their own they will not start much on fire... Probably could set a fiberglass boat on fire though... and they are scary as hell when fired.


1+ all for show. its just a flare gun round.


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## MacGyverRI (Nov 14, 2007)

FYI, it's not a Flare, it's payload is Magnesium and makes it an "Incendiary" round. Made from mixed small and larger pieces. The lg. pieces will do the major fire damage and the sm. pieces help light them up in the barrel which is why NO Semi-Auto guns (gas port for the action) should ever use them.

Magnesium doesn't go out easily and will burn under water. Fire depts. dread Magnesium fires because they can't use Water. But, it's much safer than any Phosphorous Shell or Flare to store.

From Wiki; *Magnesium is capable of reducing water to highly flammable hydrogen gas and as a result, water cannot be used to extinguish magnesium fires; the hydrogen gas produced will only intensify the fire.*

Magnesium also reacts with carbon dioxide to form magnesium oxide and carbon:
hence, carbon dioxide fire extinguishers cannot be used for extinguishing magnesium fires either.

Sand or a Dry Chem. extinguisher are the only things that will put it out (if it's much larger pieces of Mag.)

If you were to shoot them at a Boat attacking you and even a few of the pieces burn through into the Bilge, that Boat is basically gone!! 

HTH!


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

SayGudday said:


> Interesting. I'd like to play around with one for a while. Not sure it'd be my first choice but I could be swayed.


SayGudday, you're won't find them in California, and it you find them elsewhere, don't bring them here. They fall into a prohibited class of weapons AND/OR ammo, under the Dangerwous Weapons Control Act, and are a FELONY to posess in this state (and likely many others - check local laws before purchasing).

If you have a double barrel shotgun, stick to 00, 0 or #4 Buckshot. Dosage and application: 1. Fire from available cover 2. Duck and reload 3. Repeat as needed


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

1 1/2 inch distress rocket flares would be more effective, and people are looking to give away outdated ones.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

I was always partial to short fused sticks of dynamite.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Fstbttms said:


> Looks like a good way to set your boat on fire.


That could effectively stop a pirate attack I think.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, if one is going to try dealing with it that way...perhaps better to learn to chug Everclear and then BREATH FIRE at them.

Do a proper Samoan fire dance (apologies to the Samoans among us, I know that's the wrong name for it) and then exhale a stream of the good stuff. I think even dedicated pirates would stop to applaude and perhaps throw coins before thanking you for the show.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

It is too bad you are required to turn in your weapons upon completion of four-years active duty. As a previous 0351 I can say with certainty that all you need is an M-16 with an attachment for a 204 and some HE rounds to go with it. Or incendiar- just make sure you dont hit the boat.

While were at it I could call a few buddies over to set up their 240 Golf and Bravo on the Bow and stern, respectivley.


Right now I only have a Flare gun and a fight not flight mentality. As much as I would like to include my SMAW I dont think a re-loadable bazooka is safe for any boat. Just my 2 cents.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

I am reminded of the patrol boat from apocalypse now--- what a mind trip movie.


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