# masts and rigging



## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

I have the opportunity to buy a hull for a 32 ft. ketch. It has no masts or rigging. I'd like some idea as to what I need so I can figure out if the cost of the hull is worth it. Can anyone help?


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Do you have any experience doing the work that you are needing to do? Who is the manufacturer of the hull? Can you Google them to find out more information on this "boat". I would run screaming for the exits as if my hair was on fire in regards to this. No one here or any other forum is going to be able to tell you everything you are going to need to do to get this thing on the water and able to sail. Does it have an engine? Does it run? You are going to need to buy sails and all kinds of other hardware. Unless you want to spend a whole bunch of money, time, and aggravation restoring something that probably shouldn't be restored, this is not a good idea. Find a complete boat and go sailing instead. Seriously, do that instead.


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

cb32863 said:


> Do you have any experience doing the work that you are needing to do? Who is the manufacturer of the hull? Can you Google them to find out more information on this "boat". I would run screaming for the exits as if my hair was on fire in regards to this. No one here or any other forum is going to be able to tell you everything you are going to need to do to get this thing on the water and able to sail. Does it have an engine? Does it run? You are going to need to buy sails and all kinds of other hardware. Unless you want to spend a whole bunch of money, time, and aggravation restoring something that probably shouldn't be restored, this is not a good idea. Find a complete boat and go sailing instead. Seriously, do that instead.


I have zero experience but i'm fairly handy. The hull is private build, estate sail and inexpensive. it has an new engine. I realize there's a lot to buy hence my question so I know what to buy and if it is financially viable. If I can do it within a certain $ value then I'll end up with a new boat and no one else's problems


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

The cost of two masts and all standing and running rigging and sails will be more than the boat is worth. Even if you get the hull for free. 

Let this one go.

Mark


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

colemj said:


> The cost of two masts and all standing and running rigging and sails will be more than the boat is worth. Even if you get the hull for free.
> 
> Let this one go.
> 
> Mark


so you imply that building a boat is not worth it?


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Yes. Getting a new rig is more than just finding some aluminum masts and rigging wire. The masts and booms need to be designed for the boat, the chainplate size and locations, and the running rigging runs. I just rerigged all of our standing rigging and running rigging, as well as bought new sails, so I understand the costs involved. It is unlikely a private build boat has enough intrinsic value, even if free, to be worth the money put into it in these areas. If you have to pay to move it and store it while refitting, then the costs are even greater. You can almost certainly find a good boat ready to sail for less.

However, I'm willing to entertain the notion that you found an exceptional design, built by a shipwright, and ready to go except for rigging and sails, for which the specifications are on the boat.

But to give you a ballpark, masts, booms, and rigging for a ketch that size is likely to be $20,000. Sails probably $6-10,000 for basic workable ones. Running rigging $1,000 for inexpensive stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers were 50% low when everything is finished.

Mark


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

colemj said:


> Yes. Getting a new rig is more than just finding some aluminum masts and rigging wire. The masts and booms need to be designed for the boat, the chainplate size and locations, and the running rigging runs. I just rerigged all of our standing rigging and running rigging, as well as bought new sails, so I understand the costs involved. It is unlikely a private build boat has enough intrinsic value, even if free, to be worth the money put into it in these areas. If you have to pay to move it and store it while refitting, then the costs are even greater. You can almost certainly find a good boat ready to sail for less.
> 
> However, I'm willing to entertain the notion that you found an exceptional design, built by a shipwright, and ready to go except for rigging and sails, for which the specifications are on the boat.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you for the information. It is near to what I was imagining but if the numbers are 50% low then your initial suggestion of running away is correct.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Used, ready to sail boats, always cost less than they would to build.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Are there plans to work from? If not you'd need to pay a naval architect or engineer to develop the plans for the rigging, too. At $200/hr that would add up fast for the two masts on a ketch. And then you'd have to source all the materials. For a boat that may or may not sail well -- we still don't know what the design is, or what it's made of. Ketches have gotten a lot less popular since the IOR rule supplanted the earlier CCA designs in the 1970's. How old is the design for this boat, and was it any good to begin with? Boatbuilders generally figure that a finished hull is about 1/3 of the cost and 1/3 the work of a completed boat. Is the interior done yet? It would be a shame to have to rip out joinery to install chainplates or other rigging, but having to build the interior could add a LOT to the timeline before launching. So far this project sounds really sketchy.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

As a boat builder I probably should say something...
It would have to be one special build to be worth anything at all. And still not worth fitting out. 
You're talking electrical systems plumbing systems, galley, creature comforts, navigation, steering, and much much more..

Is it a backyard wooden boat build there's uite a few steel backyard boats being built and abandoned also...
You can probably pick up a 32 +- endeavor Catalina Hunter, and a few others less than 25K


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

You want to buy the boat that the LAST guy put the money into getting ready.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

It all depends on the design of the boat and complexity of the rig. You could probably put together a rig for that boat for as little as $25,000 but it could also run $30-40,000. Then you need to buy sails for maybe $7-8,000 more. It better be a super boat to be worth doing. While its unlikely that you will find suitable components, if possible you might find a used rig that could be adapted, but even that won't be cheap.

Jeff


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## JohnBPrice (Aug 10, 2014)

If you WANT to refit an old boat, if you enjoy learning new skills, if you are willing to spend money on a hobby for fun, then yea, refitting an old boat can be a great idea. You cannot rationalize it as "worth the money" as a financial investment, but it can absolutely be worth it if you love doing it. 
You might be able to scavenge some masts off an otherwise wrecked boat (though you run the risk of deciding to refit THAT boat too!)


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I just noticed, on e-Bay, a post for a mast, boom, and some standing rigging for $600,000. I think it was off a pretty big boat.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

danvon said:


> You want to buy the boat that the LAST guy put the money into getting ready.


A thousand times this. 

Didn't you say in your last post you wanted to cut the lines and start cruising? What you need is good used boat that suits your planned sailing waters and was recently completely refit by the last owner, who did excellent work. The further you move from those parameters the longer you will be living on land, working on your boat in a boat yard, getting older and older and still not sailing. Leave these multi-year project boats to the young folks with lots of time and no money!* Get out on the water!

(*This particular boat project is worse than usual because it will cost you both time and money, probably more money than you would spend on a perfectly good used boat you can sail tomorrow.)


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

paulk said:


> Are there plans to work from? If not you'd need to pay a naval architect or engineer to develop the plans for the rigging, too. At $200/hr that would add up fast for the two masts on a ketch. And then you'd have to source all the materials. For a boat that may or may not sail well -- we still don't know what the design is, or what it's made of. Ketches have gotten a lot less popular since the IOR rule supplanted the earlier CCA designs in the 1970's. How old is the design for this boat, and was it any good to begin with? Boatbuilders generally figure that a finished hull is about 1/3 of the cost and 1/3 the work of a completed boat. Is the interior done yet? It would be a shame to have to rip out joinery to install chainplates or other rigging, but having to build the interior could add a LOT to the timeline before launching. So far this project sounds really sketchy.


steel hull, Mason design and waiting on the plans


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Dr. Ian said:


> steel hull, Mason design and waiting on the plans


Run Forest run!


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

JohnBPrice said:


> If you WANT to refit an old boat, if you enjoy learning new skills, if you are willing to spend money on a hobby for fun, then yea, refitting an old boat can be a great idea. You cannot rationalize it as "worth the money" as a financial investment, but it can absolutely be worth it if you love doing it.
> You might be able to scavenge some masts off an otherwise wrecked boat (though you run the risk of deciding to refit THAT boat too!)


It would be a new boat as it has never gotten wet. The consensus seems to be that I forget it but as your post suggests people refit old boats, and learn new skills. I would think that fitting a new boat (for intents and purposes) would be less problematic. Of course, I do nothing until convinced either way.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Well it comes down to this;
Do you want ou to spend whatever time you have refitting, working a boat in the hopes to someday you have a boat to sail OR do start sailing a boat that you can slowly fit out and improve for your own purposes...


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Dr. Ian said:


> It would be a new boat as it has never gotten wet. The consensus seems to be that I forget it but as your post suggests people refit old boats, and learn new skills. I would think that fitting a new boat (for intents and purposes) would be less problematic. Of course, I do nothing until convinced either way.


the boat is only new to you. it has been around for a while and if systems are not used they will need to be redone sooner then you think. for one person to fit out a boat it will take ten years and if you pay for help it will lesson the time but the cost will be more then you could buy a good boat for and you would save 5 to 10 years.


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## JohnBPrice (Aug 10, 2014)

Dr. Ian said:


> It would be a new boat as it has never gotten wet. The consensus seems to be that I forget it but as your post suggests people refit old boats, and learn new skills. I would think that fitting a new boat (for intents and purposes) would be less problematic. Of course, I do nothing until convinced either way.


There are lots of people who restore old boats or build their own. On YouTube you can find a bunch of them. Just to start, Sail Life, Sampson Boat Co, Acorn to Arabella, SV Seeker, etc, etc. They do it because they enjoy it. It is not the easiest, cheapest, fastest, or best way to get sailing, but some odd people actually enjoy restoring boats, cars, planes, antiques. I have done boats, cars, antiques, tools, ... I have not done planes (though some of my friends have). 

On the plus side, a boat you have restored with your own blood, sweat, and tears will have far more meaning to you than one you simply bought. BTW, buying a brand new boat is not cost effective either. As many people here have said, the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get sailing is to buy a used boat in good condition.


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## Dr. Ian (Nov 11, 2021)

JohnBPrice said:


> There are lots of people who restore old boats or build their own. On YouTube you can find a bunch of them. Just to start, Sail Life, Sampson Boat Co, Acorn to Arabella, SV Seeker, etc, etc. They do it because they enjoy it. It is not the easiest, cheapest, fastest, or best way to get sailing, but some odd people actually enjoy restoring boats, cars, planes, antiques. I have done boats, cars, antiques, tools, ... I have not done planes (though some of my friends have).
> 
> On the plus side, a boat you have restored with your own blood, sweat, and tears will have far more meaning to you than one you simply bought. BTW, buying a brand new boat is not cost effective either. As many people here have said, the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get sailing is to buy a used boat in good condition.


Nice post thank you and everyone else for the encouragement or discouragement as in most cases. If I was 20 even 10 years younger I would be one of those odd people. Give me the tools and I will build it. (that was something like a quotation from someone I don't recall whom). I am still looking at used boats because as most say sailing is the goal not construction. Nonetheless, for this winter (we can get ugly winters where I am) I'm exploring all options. The mast and rigging post started as curiosity on my part. I did not expect such interest so again to you and all thank you.


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## Lanealoha (Mar 5, 2017)

Oh don't worry, you'll still get to throw plenty of time and money away in an odd fashion even on a 'good' used boat that is ready to sail......


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