# Marking your Anchor Rode for Depth?



## backcreeksailor (Mar 9, 2009)

How many of you mark your anchor rode for depth? And what methods do you think work best both in daylight and after dark conditions?


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

both of mine are marked, the one that came with the boat has plastic tails every ten feet and they are numbered. the new one i bought has small line tied in to it at 25, 50 and 75 feet. i dont need the new one with numbers, its kind of obvious which one i am at. the first is hard to see at night unless i have my headlamp on.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cloth markers in the rope portion and cable ties in the chain portion.


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## backcreeksailor (Mar 9, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> Cloth markers in the rope portion and cable ties in the chain portion.


I've seen elsewhere on the net where people say that they mark their anchor chain. But unless you have an "all-chain" anchor line, why would you ever need to bother with marking the chain?

(In my case, I have a 30' boat and I bought a 30' chain to attach the rode to. So anytime I put the anchor out, the entire chain is always going to the bottom anyway).


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

Pieces of cloth in the chain - 1 for 10 meters. 2 for 20, 3 for thirty....
Starting over at 50 meters if I really had that much chain 
Chain only for the main anchor. Not because I need it for chafe protection but because of the shorter scope required.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

These work well for me, but then I only have 50' of chain


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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

Lots of cruising folk have longer lengths of chain than is always deployed, so marking the chain as well as the rope is necessary.

We use reinforced awning fabric, on both the chain and the rope. This is soft, easy on the gypsy, durable, and very easy to add and maintain.

Brighter colors are best, and a flashlight on the foredeck is necessary for nighttime use!

More, including photos, here:
www.rocna.com/kb/Counting_chain


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

T37Chef said:


>


I have the same setup


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have 60' of chain or so....but can anchor in as little ad 3' of water with no trouble...since my board up draft is 16"... so, marking the chain makes sense...


backcreeksailor said:


> I've seen elsewhere on the net where people say that they mark their anchor chain. But unless you have an "all-chain" anchor line, why would you ever need to bother with marking the chain?
> 
> (In my case, I have a 30' boat and I bought a 30' chain to attach the rode to. So anytime I put the anchor out, the entire chain is always going to the bottom anyway).


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

My main anchor is on 100 metres of chain, which I count from the cockpit with an AutoAnchor, a wonderful little New Zealand device.









As a back-up, I have the chain tagged with bright nylon strips: one at 20, two at 40, three at 60 and four at 80 metres. My three other rodes are also similarly marked.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*I generally just count the time on the drop if it is dark.*

Yes, I have marked the line, but since the windlass lowers at a known rate (~1.5 ft/second), I don't need to look at the numbers in the dark. I need 50'? Count to 33.

Just one more option.


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## Bilgewater (Jul 17, 2008)

I have 350' of chain and mark it with coloured wire ties every 25'. From 25' to 100' I use 1 wire tie every 25' of different colours. For 100' to 200' I use 2 ties a link apart of different colours and repeat this procedure. I made up a small colour coded laminated reference card that I have next to each of my controls. This system has worked very well for me.


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## Sarguy (Mar 2, 2009)

pdqaltair said:


> Yes, I have marked the line, but since the windlass lowers at a known rate (~1.5 ft/second), I don't need to look at the numbers in the dark. I need 50'? Count to 33.
> 
> Just one more option.


When I took the ASA 104 class last month, I let the anchor down (unmarked rode) and counted lengths of rode from the windlass to the roller, (about 3 feet) and figured 4 inches went by while I shifted my eyes back to the windlass, thus three lengths was about 10 ft. The instructor told me I had let out a LOT more rode than I thought, but the angle leaving the boat looked about right to me.

Since the rode wasn't marked, there was no way to tell, but I think a windlass with a known speed would be very accurate if you can count off seconds fairly accurately.

Almost a sailor - Bob


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

backcreeksailor said:


> I've seen elsewhere on the net where people say that they mark their anchor chain. But unless you have an "all-chain" anchor line, why would you ever need to bother with marking the chain?
> 
> (In my case, I have a 30' boat and I bought a 30' chain to attach the rode to. So anytime I put the anchor out, the entire chain is always going to the bottom anyway).


I have chain and line too. 200' of chain and 250' of line. Marking the chain and line rode is very helpfull in the deeper water we have around our Channel Islands.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

pdqaltair said:


> Yes, I have marked the line, but since the windlass lowers at a known rate (~1.5 ft/second), I don't need to look at the numbers in the dark. I need 50'? Count to 33.


Wait, somebody give me calculator, I'm confused  :laugher


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## capitanissa (Jun 7, 2009)

*Use Those Old T's*

years ago in Turkey I was given a bag of rags containing strips of t-shirt material in all colors. I have used them ever since as my chain markers and they last a long time.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I mark my chain with colored zip ties. The lengths are also written down on the inside of the chain locker hatch. I open this hatch each time, so I can watch the chain. My rope rode has eyes spliced in place every 25 feet after the chain ends.....i2f


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## josrulz (Oct 15, 2006)

T37Chef said:


> These work well for me, but then I only have 50' of chain


I have the same set-up, except 30 feet of chain, then 300 feet of rode. I really like the markers simply because I can make sure I have out the amount I intended to have out.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

josrulz said:


> I have the same set-up, except 30 feet of chain, then 300 feet of rode. I really like the markers simply because I can make sure I have out the amount I intended to have out.


Hey, was that you I saw heading North Sunday, maybe toward Fairlee Creek...a beautiful Sabre 34


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## ratCATcher (Jun 13, 2010)

*But what are they?*



poopdeckpappy said:


> I have the same setup[/QUOTE
> 
> These look interesting but what are they and where do you get them?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I am a year round liveaboard and anchor out most of the time. Paint lasts for 3 to 6 months although one night in a sandy anchorage with the boat moving around will remove it.

Zip ties work well get a variety of colours and use three at each station but take spares with you each time you raise anchor. They seem to last about 4 to 6 months.

The longest lasting markers I have found to be simple bits of string with knots. I use two at each station. 50 feet 100 feet and 150 feet. I have 200 feet of chain and then 200 feet of rode.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

*lots of rode*

I have 200 feet of chain backed with 200 feet of rode. I marked the chain with multiple zip ties on the chain every 30 feet. The wife just counts the number of times the ties show up as I let the chain out. The rode isn't marked as I've never felt the need to go beyond the chain.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

*A useful tip for those with a misspent youth.*

I was once told a great tip for marking chain that, although I have never used it, I thought was brilliant. Pick your unit of measurement (5 meters or 20 feet, perhaps) and then use paint or colored cable ties in the same sequence as the colored balls for snooker. (Red, Yellow, Green, Brown, Blue, Pink, Black). That way if you loose or miss a marker, you still know where you are. I was trying to think of a color sequence that more people would be familiar with but nothing came to mind. Any ideas??


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

I mark my main chain (1/2 inch X 28 fathom) every 2 fathoms with a 12 inch band of yellow paint.As my chart and sounder are metric and I can count by 2s I easily get 2 to 1 scope for setting my 80lb plow.After the rush I have time to adjust for conditions. For really deep water I use the#2 ; a 45lb plow with 5 fathom chain and 70 fathom 3/4 nylon braid . I guess with this one because I only use it in the middle of an inlet.Love my hydraulic Kubota.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I have my lode marked every 80'. This way I can count out an 8:1 scope easilly. 
If my sounder reads 20 feet of water, I let out 2 marks, 30 feet is 3 marks, 40 is 4 marks and so on.


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## sailor1950 (Dec 8, 2009)

I have marked mine at 50 and 70 giving me a 7 to 1 scope at 10 ft of water. and at 140 for 7 to 1 in 20 ft of water. Kiss principle


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

We use multi-colored paint: red at 20 feet (it's our warning, when bringing up the anchor, that we're about to break free of the bottom); yellow at 40 feet (generally good for a lunch hook); green for 60' and blue for 80' (depending on depth, this is often where we'll anchor for the night); and at 100' feet we go to rope rode which is marked with colored wire ties in the same sequence. Has worked for us for 10 years now...


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## Flight Risk - GWG (Jun 27, 2020)

We anchor in shallow water of 25 feet or less, in the Chesapeake Bay. We mark our anchor rode every 10 feet with three threes, red, yellow, then green. We never need more than 100 feet of line.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have tried everything. Nothing works well but best yet is florescent orange primer paint. We mark at every 25’. Use the same color. Zip ties fall off when they crack and hurt if you try to pop out pebbles. Inserts fall out. String gets growth and doesn’t last. Paint flacks off. We are all chain (200’) and use it all on occasion. When counting up to seven I don’t run out of fingers so don’t see any reason to use different markings.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I use colored small stuff tied to the 200' of chain
25' - 1 green (almost never use 25' of chain
50' - 2 green
75' - 1 green + 1 yellow
100' - 2 yellows
125' - 1 yellow + 1 red
150' - 2 red

The lines are 30" long and looped so there are 2 "tails" 15". Goes through windlass no problem. Inexpensive... easy to change.

Typical anchoring range ius the :"yellow" rage - 75 - 100' easiest to see and remm







mber


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We used the colored inserts, which are silly expensive. I think something like $2 or maybe $3 each. I place four of them at every 50 ft, for 300 ft of chain. We lose a few per season, while anchoring almost every weekend. Have friends who claimed to lose them all in one season. Our chain is 1/2” and it’s possible they like larger chain better. I’d probably prefer to paint a 3 ft section of chain, every 50 ft, but it’s too hard to find a good day to do it on the dock.

I use different colors at each interval and have a decoding label on the windlass remote to identify. It’s not that we can’t count, but occasionally a set will pass unnoticed. I’ve tried alternating the marks by 90 degrees on adjacent links, but think that causes more to fall out. Best to keep them all in the same plane and insure the next set is on the same plane. If you’re looking down from the top, but they are on the side, it’s not impossible to miss them. More than once, we thought they all fell out, only to learn we didn’t see them.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Have painted marks for many years. Have to re-paint every few. Works fine. Last couple of seasons went to coloured zip ties. Jury is still out. Have to replace them as they break off, but my system involves multiple ties for each major mark, so losing a few is not that big a deal. I replace them as I notice they're gone.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It just occurred to me that a few cans of various colors of spray paint might actually be more expensive than the number of inserts I lose over a few years. Perhaps that’s their pricing strategy. Although, the inserts are more expensive to initially install, if you use several at each interval. I suppose, if you already have left over paint, or can store it successfully, the paint is cheap. I find the cans rust, nozzels clog, etc, when sitting around for several years.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

small line... I use 2mm... cheap... nothing to break... easily visible from a distance. System is easy to remember,,, YELLOW is the anchoring lengths yellow yellow is 100' out.

KISS


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

We have never had paint last on a chain for more than a year, and usually much less. If it is touching bottom, it is gone in no time. We tried the inserts, but found they all turned brown the first time we anchored in mud, and they were difficult to see without intently focusing on them (particularly once they turned brown).

Zip ties have worked great for us. The trick to making them last is to tie them around the intersection of two adjoining chain links, and not around a single link. This way, they are not subject to the gypsy jaws, and much less subject to rubbing on the bottom. Don't zip them too tight, though, because the links need to articulate.

I find there is no use of starting marking shorter than 50' because there is no practical reason for us to do so - even in the 5-7' depths we like to anchor in. Since our windlass is 15' from the bow roller, which is 8' above the water, when the 50' mark is coming off the gypsy, the chain out is ~25'.

We use white and black ties, starting with black. One tie at 50', two at 75', three at 100', four at 125' - then start again with white: one at 150', two at 175', etc. So the black marks the first 150', and the white the second 150'. The multiple ties are spaced out a few links so they are apparent. Even in the dark, one can hold their hand over the chain and feel the ties brush past (we use 8" ties).

Mark


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

colemj said:


> Zip ties have worked great for us. The trick to making them last is to tie them around the intersection of two adjoining chain links, and not around a single link. This way, they are not subject to the gypsy jaws, and much less subject to rubbing on the bottom. Don't zip them too tight, though, because the links need to articulate.


Cool tip about how to place the zip ties Mark. I'll have to try that when (or if) I ever become a sailor again.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I have 25 feet of chain and 200 feet of nylon megaplait. No marks are needed on the chain. I marked the nylon rode every 30 feet with ½" of whipping. My first mark is at 30 feet on the megaplait (therefore 55 feet). Second mark is at 60 feet of megaplait (therefore 85 feet). Third is at 90 feet (therefore 115 feet)...

Rather than add the freeboard, as I am required to I teach in ASA 103, I simply lower the rode until the mark is at the surface of the water. I do factor in the charted depth and add to it the tide to calculate the required scope.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

colemj said:


> ...We tried the inserts, but found they all turned brown the first time we anchored in mud,


This is true, but some colors are worse than others. We have the advantage of flushing the chain locker with fresh water each weekend we anchor. Full time cruising or living in a mooring is likely different, unless rinsed with a raw water washdown on the way in.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> ....Rather than add the freeboard, as I am required to I teach in ASA 103, I simply lower the rode until the mark is at the surface of the water.


Isn't the freeboard subject to the same multiple, as the depth, for the geometry to work?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I only do anchoring in protected coves, so I have mostly nylon rode. An all-chain setup would require an entirely new windlass (gypsy not available for my discontinued windlass model). The only models available now would require major surgery to my anchor locker. So my anchoring tackle is largely designed around my current capstan-only windlass.

My chain is too short to bother marking, so I mark my nylon rode. I have a band of black paint every 10' and two rows of silver every 50'. I'm looking for something better, since the paint is losing contrast and there's no "code" to uniquely identify the length if I happen to miscount as I pay it out.

I'm thinking of colored zip ties, so I could create a "code" by the color combinations. However, I'm concerned that the square latching ends might tear up my hands if I pay it out bare-handed (as I often do). What is others' experience with zip ties on nylon? I frequently let it out barehanded because I'm often in a hurry to get the anchor dropped. I usually use gloves to pull the rode in manually (in calm weather) until the chain and anchor start to resist, then use the electric windlass once I need to dislodge the anchor from the bottom. I'll use the windlass more extensively if in a heavy breeze and singlehanded, and/or need to get things pulled in as quickly as possible.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Why not just thread some colored line at appropriate distances through the rope? I wouldn't use zip ties. 

Mark


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

colemj said:


> Why not just thread some colored line at appropriate distances through the rope? I wouldn't use zip ties.
> 
> Mark


Speaking intuitively here, I'm concerned that line, thread, or anything porous will discolor over time due to sitting on the muddy bottoms we have. I hose off my rode periodically, but it still discolors over time. Mud will not impregnate in zip ties, so they'll retain their color with a quick rinse. (Obviously, UV will do a number over time, but that would be several years since I don't anchor every day.) But I am very concerned about the sharp ends of the zip ties, since they could be a laceration hazard if I forget to put on gloves.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Isn't the freeboard subject to the same multiple, as the depth, for the geometry to work?


yes it is, and it over complicates the process. Instead I figure out the depth of the WATER at high tide, multiply by desired scope, let out this amount of rode and measure the rode at the water line, not at the bow roller.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> I only do anchoring in protected coves, so I have mostly nylon rode. An all-chain setup would require an entirely new windlass (gypsy not available for my discontinued windlass model). The only models available now would require major surgery to my anchor locker. So my anchoring tackle is largely designed around my current capstan-only windlass.
> 
> My chain is too short to bother marking, so I mark my nylon rode. I have a band of black paint every 10' and two rows of silver every 50'. I'm looking for something better, since the paint is losing contrast and there's no "code" to uniquely identify the length if I happen to miscount as I pay it out.
> 
> I'm thinking of colored zip ties, so I could create a "code" by the color combinations. However, I'm concerned that the square latching ends might tear up my hands if I pay it out bare-handed (as I often do). What is others' experience with zip ties on nylon? I frequently let it out barehanded because I'm often in a hurry to get the anchor dropped. I usually use gloves to pull the rode in manually (in calm weather) until the chain and anchor start to resist, then use the electric windlass once I need to dislodge the anchor from the bottom. I'll use the windlass more extensively if in a heavy breeze and singlehanded, and/or need to get things pulled in as quickly as possible.


Use whipping, and place a whip at every desired interval (usually 30'). Place two whips at the second, and every other second interval. Done! It won't wear off, and it won't tear up your hands. In my experience, color is not important. I can clearly see the whipping on my rode when I reach it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> yes it is, and it over complicates the process. Instead I figure out the depth of the WATER at high tide, multiply by desired scope, let out this amount of rode and measure the rode at the water line, not at the bow roller.


Scratching my head. Why is adding the freeboard before multiplyIng any harder than accounting for high tide?

If I'm following your method, lets say you're anchoring in 10 ft of water, at high tide, with a 4 ft freeboard. You want 5 to 1 scope. The ASA math is 14 x 5 or 70 ft of rode from the bow roller. It sound like you multiply the 10 by 5 and then put the 50 ft marker at the waterline. Are you saying this naturally puts 20 ft of rode from the roller to the waterline? Does this method require being backed down on the rode, for it to work? Maybe true with rope (I have to do the geometry), but I really doubt that works with chain catenary.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Nope. The ASA method would require 10'(d) + 4'(h) * 5 According to ASA scope ratio should be 7 The formula that ASA states in the textbook is: *d + h x 7* - Reference Coastal Cruising Made Easy page 109. Actually ASA's formula is written incorrectly. It should be "*(d + h) x 7*". (Remember basic algebra order of operations: PEMDAS!)

Using your scope of 5:1, I can QUICKLY calculate 10 * 5 in my head, 14 * 5 - not so quick. Using ASA's scope of 7:1 it is, again, quick 10 x 7 = 70 vs (10 + 4) x 7 = 98.

I verify that the mark is at the waterline while I have the person at the helm backing down on the anchor. I also verify that the anchor is not dragging during this step in the anchoring process.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

TakeFive said:


> Speaking intuitively here, I'm concerned that line, thread, or anything porous will discolor over time due to sitting on the muddy bottoms we have. I hose off my rode periodically, but it still discolors over time. Mud will not impregnate in zip ties, so they'll retain their color with a quick rinse. (Obviously, UV will do a number over time, but that would be several years since I don't anchor every day.) But I am very concerned about the sharp ends of the zip ties, since they could be a laceration hazard if I forget to put on gloves.


That's probably true about discoloring. How about ribbons of colored nylon or polyester? Long ago I had rope rode marked with strips of yellow plastic coated material with numbers on them that inserted into the line and stuck out either side. These worked well and didn't discolor. I don't know if they still sell these, but you might look to see.

Mark


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> Nope. The ASA method would require 10'(d) + 4'(h) * 5


Since it's raining and I need a break from projects, I'm needlessly intrigued. That is the formula I used above. 14 x 5. What's nope?



> According to ASA scope ratio should be 7


For rope, I understand. I was only showing the math, not specifying a scope.



> Using your scope of 5:1, I can QUICKLY calculate 10 * 5 in my head, 14 * 5 - not so quick. Using ASA's scope of 7:1 it is, again, quick 10 x 7 = 70 vs (10 + 4) x 7 = 98.


Back to scratching my head. What if you are anchored in an odd depth of water? If you're in 16 ft of water, 7 x 20, from the bow roller, is easier than 7 x 16. Or 13 feet of water, where neither 13 x 7, nor 17 x 7 are round.



> I verify that the mark is at the waterline while I have the person at the helm backing down on the anchor. I also verify that the anchor is not dragging during this step in the anchoring process.


Do you just intuitively know when the extra 28 ft has payed out? I suppose too much is better than too little.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

You're going to have to take a lesson with me to find out.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I decided that I'll just wrap colored electrical tape to mark my rode. I'll set up color the code based on the wavelength of light for each color, which I'll easily remember (blue-green-yellow-red-black). I was having difficulty finding multicolor telltale ribbons, colored cording, colored whipping thread, or anything similar at a reasonable price, since I was having to buy ridiculous quantities of each color. Also, my white whipping thread is turning gray due to mildew after a year on my new traveller line, so it would not be visible on the rode either:












eherlihy said:


> Nope. The ASA method would require 10'(d) + 4'(h) * 5 According to ASA scope ratio should be 7 The formula that ASA states in the textbook is: *d + h x 7* - Reference Coastal Cruising Made Easy page 109. Actually ASA's formula is written incorrectly. It should be "*(d + h) x 7*". (Remember basic algebra order of operations: PEMDAS!)
> 
> Using your scope of 5:1, I can QUICKLY calculate 10 * 5 in my head, 14 * 5 - not so quick. Using ASA's scope of 7:1 it is, again, quick 10 x 7 = 70 vs (10 + 4) x 7 = 98.
> 
> I verify that the mark is at the waterline while I have the person at the helm backing down on the anchor. I also verify that the anchor is not dragging during this step in the anchoring process.


First, you've admitted that the textbook has a typo. Everyone knows that the water depth and freeboard at the bow both need to be multiplied by the same scope factor. Adding the two together before multiplying makes the calculation easier, not harder. Either way you do it, there are going to be certain depths where the numbers happen to be easy, and others where it takes a little thought. I don't think cherry-picking numbers to make them easy to calculate is realistic.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

eherlihy said:


> yes it is, and it over complicates the process. Instead I figure out the depth of the WATER at high tide, multiply by desired scope, let out this amount of rode and measure the rode at the water line, not at the bow roller.


Your method requires securing the rode, backing down, checking the marker position under tension, and repeating as required. Otherwise the rode will not be at its shallowest angle. Or you could guess at the tension, based on the wind at the moment, which introduces an error.

Surely adding "3" to a small integer before figuring your scope is easier.

I've written many articles and a book on anchoring. Determining optimum scope for setting vs. spending the night, and with variations on ground tackle and conditions is complicated. But the math is dead simple.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

pdqaltair said:


> Your method requires securing the rode, backing down, checking the marker position under tension, and repeating as required. Otherwise the rode will not be at its shallowest angle. Or you could guess at the tension, based on the wind at the moment, which introduces an error.
> 
> Surely adding "3" to a small integer before figuring your scope is easier.
> 
> ...


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

TakeFive said:


> View attachment 136119


I'd be surprised if this stuck on the rode for any reasonable length of time. I've got this exact pack of tape that I use as my cheap electrical tape for non-important stuff like temporarily dead-ending a live wire, marking lines in chases, etc, and it doesn't even stick well doing that.

What about a colorful cheap vinyl tablecloth or similar? Cut it into strips. Find one with several different colors in its pattern and Bob's your uncle. Could probably find one in a dollar store.

Just did a quick google - something like this: Freeman Vinyl Tablecloth

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

As someone who anchors hundreds of times each year in just about every bottom and surface conditions for the past 12yrs (and dozens of times/year for the previous 25yrs), all I can say is you guys make way too much out of anchoring.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I did a google for the vinyl markers I used to use and they still make them: Anchor Rode Marker Set

Dirt cheap, and they work very well. The downside is you are stuck to their depth lengths.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

colemj said:


> I did a google for the vinyl markers I used to use and they still make them: Anchor Rode Marker Set
> 
> Dirt cheap, and they work very well. The downside is you are stuck to their depth lengths.
> 
> Mark


One length of anchor rope that came with my boat has/had this.
So simple its scary. Yep, cheap
Ive been chopping away at it for snubbers...
Thats the way to go with any rope other than dbl braid

Im going to try your ziptie trick.
Agree that paint is a waste...changed to counting forearm lengths...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I want it every 10'. I typically anchor in about 10' of water, sometimes crowded anchorages where I want to know exactly what I have out.

I've used black vinyl electrical tape to mark dock lines and they've always held up. That was better quality 3M stuff, so maybe that's different. But I'm not going to spend $25 for several colors of 3M tape (or for a tablecloth). I'll try a few wraps of the tape that I bought, and try something else if it doesn't work. I used to work in the adhesive business and know that they use non-water soluble rubber adhesive, so immersion in water should not cause a problem.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RegisteredUser said:


> Ive been chopping away at it for snubbers...
> Thats the way to go with any rope other than dbl braid


I've always heard that nylon twist rope offers better stretch for docking and anchoring applications, at the expense of chafe resistance. Ultimately it's a decision of what balance of properties you need. I'm committed to rode instead of chain for my anchoring, but willing to consider other ropes. I've never heard of using double braid for anchoring because of the lower stretch. Have you seen recommendations for double braid over twist for anchoring?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> I've always heard that nylon twist rope offers better stretch for docking and anchoring applications, at the expense of chafe resistance. Ultimately it's a decision of what balance of properties you need. I'm committed to rode instead of chain for my anchoring, but willing to consider other ropes. I've never heard of using double braid for anchoring because of the lower stretch. Have you seen recommendations for double braid over twist for anchoring?


Ive just seen it offered for anchoring. Maybe some people like it because its pretty..dunno.
When youre bored, also check 8 plait nylon and 12 strand nylon.
The stretch properties and strength of nylon, even when wet, make it gold3n for docklines and anchor rode.
I would be interested in seeing some long term tests. I believe over time and use, you can suck much of the stretch out of the rope and it hardens. I am getting this only from seeing used rope.
I plan to change my snubber after a year. Last storm 2 months or so ago popped 1 of the 3 strands. Subber was 14 months in use.

Love me some rope...


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Colors aren't going to help in the dark. We have pieces of marlin tied into the lay of the line for every boatlength of anchor line. One at one length, two at two, etc. Keeps us from having to count too high, or from losing track too easily. (Imagine markers every foot, and having to count them to be sure you were "on target".) We usually anchor in about 20' of water, so 7x 20' is 140'. With our loa at 36', that means about four or five boat lengths of line.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> I've always heard that nylon twist rope offers better stretch for docking and anchoring applications, at the expense of chafe resistance....


Actually, 3-strand is more chafe resistant (I've tested them side-by-side in the lab).

The advantages of double braid are flexibility and knotting... although it is more complex to splice and the splice is less robust in some ways.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I've used 3-strand, DB, and climbing rope for anchoring:

3-strand gives better grip with gloves or combination gypsy.
3-strand wears longer and resists cutting better.
DB and climbing rope knot better... but 3-strand is easier to splice, particularly to chain.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

paulk said:


> Colors aren't going to help in the dark. We have pieces of marlin tied into the lay of the line for every boatlength of anchor line...


Since you brought it up, how do you see yours in the dark?

We all have our own practices and needs. I have never dropped anchor in the dark, and if I did I would use my deck light and/or head mounted lamp. I want color coded marks every 10 feet because I want to be able to tell when I'm approaching the chain/rode splice and starting to lift my chain out of the mud (1:1 scope). Then I go fix breakfast and afterwards resume raising my anchor with my mud-free chain. So much easier than having to hose the mud off the chain!


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

pdqaltair said:


> I've used 3-strand, DB, and climbing rope for anchoring:
> 
> 3-strand gives better grip with gloves or combination gypsy.
> 3-strand wears longer and resists cutting better.
> DB and climbing rope knot better... but 3-strand is easier to splice, particularly to chain.


I'm interested in your opinion on splicing directly from rode to chain (no thimble or shackle) with a 5-6-7 tapered splice. I've done this over the past year so that it passes through my roller more easily, according to the WestMarine video shown below. I know that the tight bend of the strands around the chain causes some loss of strength and potential for chafe, so I check its condition thoroughly every time I use it. It passes through my roller SO MUCH better, and can even go around my capstan without taking a chunk out of the adjacent fiberglass if I end up in a situation where I can't pull the chain by hand. (I try to avoid pulling the chain around the capstan because over time it would take off chunks off chrome). Just in case, I've spliced a thimble into the other end of my rode so I can switch to it immediately if the inspection of the direct chain splice reveals issues.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> Since you brought it up, how do you see yours in the dark?
> 
> We all have our own practices and needs. I have never dropped anchor in the dark, and if I did I would use my deck light and/or head mounted lamp. I want color coded marks every 10 feet because I want to be able to tell when I'm approaching the chain/rode splice and starting to lift my chain out of the mud (1:1 scope). Then I go fix breakfast and afterwards resume raising my anchor with my mud-free chain. So much easier than having to hose the mud off the chain!
> 
> ...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> this won't work if there is any wind (1:1 scope)


It works fine in a protected cove (smooth water) up to about 10 kt of wind. Higher than that, and the chain doesn't sit on the bottom anyway, so it comes up clean without having to pause at low scope. With marks every 10', I can tell as I pull it up whether it's sitting on the bottom.


chef2sail said:


> My line rode has marks easily placed between rope strands. My original set still looks new after 15 years. Cost me a whole $5


I'd buy it if it had marks every 10 feet. Since I'm usually anchored in <15 feet of water, I almost never put out more than 100' of rode.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> I'm interested in your opinion on splicing directly from rode to chain (no thimble or shackle) with a 5-6-7 tapered splice. I've done this over the past year so that it passes through my roller more easily, according to the WestMarine video shown below. I know that the tight bend of the strands around the chain causes some loss of strength and potential for chafe, so I check its condition thoroughly every time I use it. It passes through my roller SO MUCH better, and can even go around my capstan without taking a chunk out of the adjacent fiberglass if I end up in a situation where I can't pull the chain by hand. (I try to avoid pulling the chain around the capstan because over time it would take off chunks off chrome). Just in case, I've spliced a thimble into the other end of my rode so I can switch to it immediately if the inspection of the direct chain splice reveals issues.


a. No loss in srength for two reasons. First, there are 2 legs carrying the load around an eye or link, so 50% loss is acceptable. Second, because you have unlaid the rope, the effective diameter is now similar to the link diameter. Rope-to-chain short splices test at nearly 100% min BS.
b. Wear. There is no chafe because there is no movment. It is easier for the chain to flex at the next eye. The chain is basically locked into the splice.

I even splice to chain when there is no windlass. Easier on the hands, one less failure point, and easier down the hawse pipe, if there is one.

As for splicing to chain, when the rode goes through a vertical windlass, I like the Irony Splice. Strong and feeds like it isn't even there. But harder to learn. Be careful to keep the tensions even.
Irony Splice


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

pdqaltair said:


> Your method requires securing the rode, backing down, checking the marker position under tension, and repeating as required. Otherwise the rode will not be at its shallowest angle. Or you could guess at the tension, based on the wind at the moment, which introduces an error.
> 
> Surely adding "3" to a small integer before figuring your scope is easier.
> 
> I've written many articles and a book on anchoring. Determining optimum scope for setting vs. spending the night, and with variations on ground tackle and conditions is complicated. But the math is dead simple.


I would HOPE that everyone that anchors secures the rode, backs down and looks at the rode, as well as ensuring that the boat isn't moving! And that they do this as often as necessary to ensure that the vessel is secure.

I have taught anchoring hundreds of times, on many different boats including: Bristol 19, Pearson Ensign, Colgate 26, Pearson 303, Hunter 33, O'day 35, Hunter 36, Cherubini-Hunter 37, Fountaine Pajot 38, Hunter 41, Hunter 43, and Caliber 40. Frankly, I don't know what the actual freeboard measurement is for _any _of them. The best I can do is guess, and my guess ranges from 1 foot to 5 feet on different boats. I *believe* that the freeboard on my boat, the O'day 35, is 4 feet, but I have never measured it.

Occasionally, I have had students (whom I consider to be OCD) that want *precise *numbers for everything. It was in response to this that I began to show students how to anchor by figuring the maximum depth (charted depth + tidal range) multiplying by desired scope (with rope/chain 3:1 for lunch, 5:1 for longer, 7:1 overnight) and measuring the rode where the waterline and the rode meet. I also teach them the (corrected, because the book is wrong) ASA method because there are several ASA 103 test questions on the subject.

I will continue to do what I do, and you do what you do. Let's leave it at that.

Back on topic: I use whipping to mark the rode every 30 feet.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

So, E, what do you do, if the estimated rode to get the mark to the surface is wrong, once you’ve backed down? Easy to let more out, I suppose. Harder to bring it back in, do you bother, if too much? If you don’t actually have a rode mark at the exact rode length, how do you even know at all? What is it you tell your students to look for at the surface?

Our windlass drops 1.5 ft of chain per second. We can count and get super close. Normally, however, I just go up to the next 50 ft mark at the bow roller. Part of our math requires considering the 50 ft snubber that will go in, after we’ve preliminarily set the hook too.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

eherlihy said:


> I would HOPE that everyone that anchors secures the rode, backs down
> 
> Back on topic: I use whipping to mark the rode every 30 feet.


We *NEVER *back down on our anchor when setting it unless we are Med mooring or if there is no wind at all. We let the boat set the anchor, which it seems to do without fail every time. For the first year we had the Rocna we dove on it almost every time we set it and found it rarely moved more than one anchor length before setting.
I have watched literally hundreds of boats plow the bay bottoms in perfect sand bays by backing down and tearing their anchors out of a set, time after time. 
We use colored paint every 25' after the first 50 on our chain and cloth every 50 feet on our #2 of 1" braided nylon rode. Our #2 is basically a heavy weather set up and we probably wouldn't use less than 300' if deploying it, so the 50' marks seem fine.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Minne - You're gonna make me teach the lesson - aren't you.
First - figure out ho much rode you think that you will need.​Second - find the spot (there's more to this), stop the boat, and lower the anchor.​Third - allow anchor rode to pay out (don't just dump it in a pile) as the boat is blown backwards, or while motoring in reverse idle. With rope rode a turn should be made around a cleat.​Fourth - when the scope reaches what you think is 3:1 stop paying out line (snub the rode against the cleat) and the boat should snap into line with the anchor rode. The engine should still be in idle. This is your initial set, and it can confirm or refute that there is good holding. If you are stopping for lunch in the cockpit, go to step 7.​Fifth - if you are happy with the initial set then pay out more rode to your desired scope (see previous post).​Sixth - When the desired scope is out (or when you think you are close) back down on the anchor (gradually increase to 50% throttle) to set it. Verify the scope that you have by looking at the mark where it meets the water (adjust as needed), and verify that the boat is not moving backward.​Seventh - shut down the motor and relax.​
Without marks at every foot, you have to estimate ±15 feet... it's the best I can do. The OCD students could mark their rode every foot I suppose.

The Hunter 41, 43 the Fountain Pajot 38, and the Caliber had electric windlasses. I have no idea what the chainfall rate is for any of them. Every other boat uses a two arm windlass.

I have a Rocna on my boat, one boat that I teach on has a Spade, a couple of the boats have Deltas, most have Danforths (or knockoffs).


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> It works fine in a protected cove (smooth water) up to about 10 kt of wind. Higher than that, and the chain doesn't sit on the bottom anyway, so it comes up clean without having to pause at low scope. With marks every 10', I can tell as I pull it up whether it's sitting on the bottom.
> 
> I'd buy it if it had marks every 10 feet. Since I'm usually anchored in <15 feet of water, I almost never put out more than 100' of rode.


Remember when we anchor at home it's like you 10 -15 ft of water .
So in 10 ft of water.....4 feet of freeboard equals 14 ft. 7:1 scope equals 98 ft out. Pretty simple. 90 ft of chain and 10 ft of rode. Easy to figure out In our case. Very rarely do I need an EXACT measurement. Being too microscopic and needing 10 ft intervals is over examination IMHO.

so you are lucky as most of your sailing is here in the Chessie which has minimal tide change therefore you never have to compensate for the 5-9 ft tide changes on the LI Sound or up north. Nor do you Often anchor in a reversible current like the Delaware. Again away from the Chesapeake that can be commonplace.

you could drive yourself batty with trying to figure this out to microscopically. In my 40 years or so in sailing in many different areas having 25 ft deliniations has always been adequate.

in terms of letting the water rinse off the mud by doing a 1:1 scope, you must be 1- anchoring in creeks with non sticky mud and 2- our anchor and chain is a Rocna ( I think you have a similar Mantus) , and the phenomena these anchors exhibit is usually a shovelful of thick mud in the spade which requires either a good wash down system or some other Rube Goldberg way to get the mud off the anchor. The newer wash down systems generate powerful sprads making this an easy Instal and usage. Most people once they invest in an anchor wash down are suprised how well they work, and would never go back to any other technique.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think when using any of the nextgen anchors Capta is right. We drop and drift back. If no wind then engine at lowest rpm. We like to leave the engine in neutral for awhile so the oil pump and cooling system is working as the turbo cools off. Depending on the bottom may go in reverse at 1600 rpm for awhile. But this isn’t to set the anchor but rather to check the set.
Find Rocna and the like do much better if not backed down on hard. This is especially true in loose mud where they don’t perform as well as a simple danforth or fortress. Given we’re mostly in the Caribbean where it’s easy to see the bottom over time I know this is true. I’ve ruin a good set by backing down more than once so stopped doing it.
Our common practice is to anchor then put the boat to bed and launch the dinghy. Then leave to clear. When leaving the boat follow the chain out to the anchor. Upon returning find the anchor again. Do the same every time we leave and return to the boat as long as we are in that anchorage. Also check the anchor whenever fins go on or use the chain to pull myself down. It’s amazing how much the anchor continues to bury over time and how long that time is. Days not minutes.
Its clear you want just a wee bit of the roll bar or no roll bar to show. Then it will reset nearly immediately with a dramatic wind or current shift. It’s also clear this family of anchors do much better the longer they’re left alone and work their way in. Given people are routinely using 5:1 or even 3:1 in tight quarters a hard backdown doesn’t help. The angle to too much. They don’t dig - just pull out and maybe reset when you stop with the high rpms.
I was taught what Ed teaches. It was definitely true for my prior anchors but firmly believe not true for the current generation of anchors. I gave up on the traditional teaching some years ago


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> Minne - You're gonna make me teach the lesson - aren't you.
> First - figure out ho much rode you think that you will need.​Second - find the spot (there's more to this), stop the boat, and lower the anchor.​Third - allow anchor rode to pay out (don't just dump it in a pile) as the boat is blown backwards, or while motoring in reverse idle. With rope rode a turn should be made around a cleat.​Fourth - when the scope reaches what you think is 3:1 stop paying out line (snub the rode against the cleat) and the boat should snap into line with the anchor rode. The engine should still be in idle. This is your initial set, and it can confirm or refute that there is good holding. If you are stopping for lunch in the ****pit, go to step 7.​Fifth - if you are happy with the initial set then pay out more rode to your desired scope (see previous post).​Sixth - When the desired scope is out (or when you think you are close) back down on the anchor (gradually increase to 50% throttle) to set it. Verify the scope that you have by looking at the mark where it meets the water (adjust as needed), and verify that the boat is not moving backward.​Seventh - shut down the motor and relax.​
> Without marks at every foot, you have to estimate ±15 feet... it's the best I can do. The OCD students could mark their rode every foot I suppose.
> 
> ...


I was not taught how to anchor in my learn to sail course in the mid 80s. I read a book which I think was called Anchoring in All Bottoms... and then taught myself from experience.

I began serious anchoring in 91 when I moved aboard and sailed to the Windwards where I was anchored every day for 4 years. I had upgraded to 200' of 5/16 chain an a reversing vertical windlass. I kept my 36# CQR. I marked my chain as previously noted.

I discovered was has been a VERY reliable anchoring technique. I haven't dragged since then.

The KEY is that my snubber has a rubber mooring compensator with 3 coils. After survey and selection of my spot.... I deploy the desired scope.... rounded to the closest 25' mark on the chain. the mark is at the roller. I then hook on the snubber at the roller and hold the bitter end of the snubber using the windlass drum as a turning point to the cleat. Next I lower more chain which pulls the snubber with it. When the compensator is above the water level and visible I tie it off. Then I let more chain out and the snubber is now taking all the anchor load.

What will happen in there is some wind as is typical.... the wind will push the bow and it is not longer weather cocked. Wind pushes at the increased area of the boat. Here is the TELL:

If the coils on the mooring compensator untwist... this tell me that the tension in the rode has INCREASED. The tension will not increase in a dragging anchor. The MORE the coils untwist.... the greater the tension and this is a unambiguous sign that the anchor has properly set.

When the wind is light I back down and observe the uncoiling of the line around the compensator. No uncoiling means the anchor has not set.

Finally I lift the chain up so the line fits into the grove in the bow roller with the chain laying on top.

Compensator is the tell.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have a wash down. It’s wonderful on the chain. On the Rocna find once you’re away from other boats just leaving it in the water and going in reverse gets even the most tenacious mud off.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Had one of those S. It broke. At that time also switched out to always using two snubbers and increasing the size (strength) of my snubbers. Seems snubber failure is a not uncommon reason for catastrophe .
Believe snubbers should be run directly to both bow cleats not through a roller except in unusual circumstance.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> Had one of those S. It broke. At that time also switched out to always using two snubbers and increasing the size (strength) of my snubbers. Seems snubber failure is a not uncommon reason for catastrophe .
> Believe snubbers should be run directly to both bow cleats not through a roller except in unusual circumstance.


A compensator parting leaves just the nylon rope for the snubber... for me it's 3/4".  I never had compesator break nor a snubber.

I use the bow roller lead because it's fair and no chafing.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I almost always back down on my Rocna to ensure it is both set and dug in. In some substrates like soft mud, loose sand, or weedy bottoms, it is better to let it settle for a while. But I still try and dig it in with the engine unless the wind is really blowing hard already.

My view is that letting the conditions dig in the anchor is fine as long as wind/current directions remain constant. But if you've got the potential for shifting forces, I would much rather know the anchor is dug in, rather than leave it to uncontrolled forces.

I do this by slowly paying out rode, allowing the boat's momentum to set the anchor. Once we're out to around 4:1 I'll slowly start revering on the engine. Low RPMs first. If it holds, then slowly build to full cruising RPMs, which for us is around 1900. If it doesn't hold, or starts to slip, then ease off and add more rode.

This technique has never failed me with the Rocna. Once it holds it has never disengaged or dragged. And we do anchor in some challenging areas at times.

BTW, the reset tests conducted by Steve Goodwin (Panope) shows that the Rocna struggles at resetting once it is dissengaged from the bottom. Once it has dug in it crabs around on a reset, but if it's not dug in, it can disengage and not reset.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> Minne - You're gonna make me teach the lesson - aren't you.


Not really. Already know how to anchor. 

I'm trying to connect with why you like math at the waterline better, while still estimating.



> Without marks at every foot, you have to estimate ±15 feet... it's the best I can do.


This is all I was asking. Whatever works for you. For me, the math at the roller is pretty simple. You're already adding the remaining tidal range, before multiplying, so I don't follow why adding a few more feet for freeboard matters. But, it works for you, that's all that really matters.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Interesting use of those rubber snubber things Sander. I think I get it, and it makes sense, although I certainly don't do it that way. 

I don't deploy my snubbers till after the anchor is set and dug in. I work with the chain until I'm confident I've got a good hold. Only then do I deploy the subbers. Then they are deployed in a bridle, with each leg going through the bow chocks to stout bow cleats.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Being too microscopic and needing 10 ft intervals is over examination IMHO....you could drive yourself batty with trying to figure this out to microscopically...In my 40 years or so in sailing in many different areas having 25 ft deliniations has always been adequate.


Good for you, but not good for me. I like having my marks every 10' near the chain splice so I can know when I'm starting to pull the chain off the mud. I've had my rode marked this way with paint for 4 years, and my mental acuity has not suffered. However, it does seem to drive you a little batty. 



chef2sail said:


> ...the phenomena these anchors exhibit is usually a shovelful of thick mud in the spade which requires either a good wash down system or some other Rube Goldberg way to get the mud off the anchor.


I've used washdown systems on charter boats and my friend's Mason 44 which she lent me in summer of 2015. It's much simpler to have my wife slowly drive the boat out of the anchorage while I dangle the anchor just under the water. The mud is gone in less than a minute, then I just pull it up through the roller - less time than it would take me to go down below to flip a circuit breaker for a washdown system. I guess that makes me a rube. 

But just in case I ever need a little washdown, I still have this portable system that I put together for my prior boat:


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> in terms of letting the water rinse off the mud


In our case sand, except for FdF Martinique. I guess we're fortunate that the trades blow hard enough that the bow dips under the waves a whole lot when crossing the channels. In other words, we let Neptune do that job. lol


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> Interesting use of those rubber snubber things Sander. I think I get it, and it makes sense, although I certainly don't do it that way.
> 
> I don't deploy my snubbers till after the anchor is set and dug in. I work with the chain until I'm confident I've got a good hold. Only then do I deploy the subbers. Then they are deployed in a bridle, with each leg going through the bow chocks to stout bow cleats.


The snubber becomes the stretchy part of the chain rode. If the anchor is not set it is hard to hell at times... unless you are backing down and the chain pulls taught and straightens. Otherwise it is really not set. When the anchor sets... the forces on the boat pull on the chain and on the anchor. The chain catanary will lift if it is set... if it's not set it will not lift. My system SHOWS tension increase (forces) when the coils unwind.... and more tension as the wind or current increases. Dragging does not develop MORE force.... it just pushes the boat and drags the anchor.

Lets say the anchor is not set and you reverse.... The catenary MAY lift, the chain straighten but it's not digging in or holding. The unwinding... stretching of the compensator is the TELL on force in the rode.

How do YOU know when your anchor is set and you can then deploy a snubber?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

SanderO said:


> The snubber becomes the stretchy part of the chain ride. If the anchor is not set it is hard to hell at times... unless you are backing down and the chain pulls taught and straightens. Otherwise it is really not set. When the anchor sets... the forces on the boat pull on the chain and on the anchor. The chain catenary will lift if it is set... if it's not set it will not lift. My system SHOWS tension increase (forces) when the coils unwind.... and more tension as the wind or current increases. Dragging does not develop MORE force.... it just pushes the boat and drags the anchor.
> 
> Lets say the anchor is not set and you reverse.... The catenary MAY lift, the chain straighten but it's not digging in or holding. The unwinding... stretching of the compensator is the TELL on force in the rode.
> 
> How do YOU know when your anchor is set and you can then deploy a snubber?


We just don't put that much energy into anchoring. We put out our normal 3:1 scope, put on the snub and go about our business cleaning up the boat after the sail or put down the ladder for guests to swim. Is there something about the bottoms you generally anchor in that require so much attention?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

SanderO said:


> I was not taught how to anchor in my learn to sail course in the mid 80s. I read a book which I think was called Anchoring in All Bottoms... and then taught myself from experience.
> 
> I began serious anchoring in 91 when I moved aboard and sailed to the Windwards where I was anchored every day for 4 years. I had upgraded to 200' of 5/16 chain an a reversing vertical windlass. I kept my 36# CQR. I marked my chain as previously noted.
> 
> ...


Seems like a great system.

Only disadvantage (other than the slightly added complexity) is that it is more difficult to change the length of the snubber. But maybe that is less needed since you have most of the elasticity needed in the rubber?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

SanderO said:


> A compensator parting leaves just the nylon rope for the snubber... for me it's 3/4". I never had compesator break nor a snubber.


I did have a compensator break, not on a snubber but on a dockline in a storm. It was oversized, too.

Still have them on all my breast and sternlines. MUCH less load on the hardware and the lines.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> I did have a compensator break, not on a snubber but on a dockline in a storm. It was oversized, too.
> 
> Still have them on all my breast and sternlines. MUCH less load on the hardware and the lines.


I use an EPDM snubber my port stern dockline, which is only about 2.5' long attached to a cleat on a floating finger pier. I'm concerned that such a short dock line will not have enough stretch, and in a storm the dock and boat may bob at different frequencies causing a cleat to get pulled out from the sudden jerk loads. So the rubber gives the short line some "give" to protect the cleats from jerk loads. All my other dock lines are long enough that they have enough stretch IMO.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

capta said:


> We just don't put that much energy into anchoring. We put out our normal 3:1 scope, put on the snub and go about our business cleaning up the boat after the sail or put down the ladder for guests to swim. Is there something about the bottoms you generally anchor in that require so much attention?


Right..... I lay our the chain... attach the snubber... let out more chain so the snubber is taking the load and go about my biz... because 99% of the time everything is routine.... anchor sets. done.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Seems like a great system.
> 
> Only disadvantage (other than the slightly added complexity) is that it is more difficult to change the length of the snubber. But maybe that is less needed since you have most of the elasticity needed in the rubber?


The snubber is a few feet from the chain hook and the line is about 30' long so if I wanted to I could let 25' of nylon and the rest chain... but the snubber would be invisible and submerged.

I have a bullet float near the end of the snubber line in case I drop it.... so I can retrieve it.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Here's some more fuel for this discussion


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Bold declarative statements that include "never", "not on my boat", or "always" are fraugth with peril. I've sailed a lot of places on a lot of boats, and with regard to anchoring, there are a LOT of variables.

Case in point. I sail out of a brown water port in the Chesapeake Bya, where the bottom type is often not identified. You can't see it; visibility is VERY seldom more than 5 feet and only 2-3 feet in summer. Much of the year it is too cold to dive, and just finding the anchor in cold deep water isn't easy. Within 2 miles the bottom can be:

Bottomless ooze, like thick water.
Good mud
Perfect fine sand
That same sand, only 3 inches thick, over hardpan
Smooth rock with some jointing
Oyster shell
Dense weed
You need to feel the initial set to get some clue as to the bottom type. Good luck not backing the anchor down; if you are in the thin sand over hard pan you will only figure that out when it blows in the night. If you are luck, you will notice the rode rise and fall when setting on the smooth rock. Or you will find out when the wind shifts and the anchor un-hooks.

Other places, I'm sure it's just mud or sand, the weather is settled, and I just drop the hook.

Just sayin', be careful about any hard rules. Just a few days ago I was reintroduced to that horrible jointed rock area (good fishing, through!).


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

SanderO said:


> The snubber becomes the stretchy part of the chain ride. If the anchor is not set it is hard to hell at times... unless you are backing down and the chain pulls taught and straightens. Otherwise it is really not set. When the anchor sets... the forces on the boat pull on the chain and on the anchor. The chain catenary will lift if it is set... if it's not set it will not lift. My system SHOWS tension increase (forces) when the coils unwind.... and more tension as the wind or current increases. Dragging does not develop MORE force.... it just pushes the boat and drags the anchor.
> 
> Lets say the anchor is not set and you reverse.... The catenary MAY lift, the chain straighten but it's not digging in or holding. The unwinding... stretching of the compensator is the TELL on force in the rode.
> 
> How do YOU know when your anchor is set and you can then deploy a snubber?


The chain cannot go tight if the anchor is not holding, so it's quite easy to see visually. We never settle for less than bar-hard chain. If I can't achieve that I re-anchor.

In addition to the visuals I find anchoring to be a tactile experience. I can feel the chain to tell if the anchor is stationary, or if it's moving along. I can also tell much about the bottom this way.

And of course, there are transits to take to see if you're shifting position.

I understand your system. It's interesting. Might be a good one to use for inexperienced folk.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I just put my bare foot on the anchor chain as the anchor is setting. I can tell exactly what bottom type and how well we are set in it this way. Can tell sandy mud from jello mud from silty mud. Hard pack from rubble. Can even tell the length taken to fully set the anchor. Might just be experience. Might just be sensitive feet. But it never fails to be correct.

Mark


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

colemj said:


> I just put my bare foot on the anchor chain as the anchor is setting. I can tell exactly what bottom type and how well we are set in it this way. Can tell sandy mud from jello mud from silty mud. Hard pack from rubble. Can even tell the length taken to fully set the anchor. Might just be experience. Might just be sensitive feet. But it never fails to be correct.
> 
> Mark


Yup, foot or hand can reveal much about what is going on at the anchor. It's how I've done it for the the last two decades.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

But agree with never say never in life not just anchoring. 
we bought three of those compensators. Used two on dock lines a bigger one for the snubber. That one cracked and failed where the hole for the line to enter is. As with anything I looked at it carefully before using. Failure occurred within weeks of installation during the night as repetitive line squalls went through. Nothing too bad 35 rare to,40-45. Think once the thing is fully loaded it bends where that bit attaches to the main body of it so is subject to failure due to point loading.
The less acute the angle the less you hobbyhorse when it gets stinky in an anchorage. Some even move their snubber down to the waterline bolt on the bow if they have one. Going over the roller both increases the angle and puts the attachment as far forward as possible. At least on my boat both increase hobbyhorsing. 
I want the most snubber out I can reasonably put and still see the mantus hook or trucker hitches. That way each little bit of it doesn’t have to stretch much to absorb shock loads. I want two so if one fails I don’t stress the windlass. Also loading on each is decreased. Know about the event some years ago when multiple boats were lost in an anchorage off the west coast of Mexico as snubbers failed. Sudden loading and boats dragged or the cam in the windlass failed. Experienced a minor event locally on a prior boat. Due to the forecast anchored off the beach in Marion as anchorage was full. Several others did the same. Blew a consistent 40 for a few hours. Fortunately it was during the morning so you could watch things. Saw a snubber on a neighbor fail. Saw all the rode let out and the boat go aground. We left that late afternoon as the canal was favorable so didn’t see the conclusion. But he was still aground when we left. So I believe in two very beefy snubbers and their being as long as possible. If I know it’s going to be really snotty I might even rig a third and run it over the roller as a fail safe. May also use the roller to change angle of attack to minimize sailing at anchor on occasion. But the go to is two snubbers lead to the bow cleats.
Anchoring is a chore. For many they won’t see weather at anchor so there’s no reason for overkill. Some will or can’t predict with confidence if they will. In that case it isn’t overkill at all to take every precaution. Didn’t mean to imply that I never backdown. I do whenever I have any concern about the set. I’ve even backed down a day or two after anchoring if I have concern. But still think a strong initial backdown can be counterproductive in many occasions.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> But agree with never say never in life not just anchoring.
> we bought three of those compensators. Used two on dock lines a bigger one for the snubber. That one cracked and failed where the hole for the line to enter is. As with anything I looked at it carefully before using. Failure occurred within weeks of installation during the night as repetitive line squalls went through. Nothing too bad 35 rare to,40-45. Think once the thing is fully loaded it bends where that bit attaches to the main body of it so is subject to failure due to point loading.
> The less acute the angle the less you hobbyhorse when it gets stinky in an anchorage. Some even move their snubber down to the waterline bolt on the bow if they have one. Going over the roller both increases the angle and puts the attachment as far forward as possible. At least on my boat both increase hobbyhorsing.
> I want the most snubber out I can reasonably put and still see the mantus hook or trucker hitches. That way each little bit of it doesn't have to stretch much to absorb shock loads. I want two so if one fails I don't stress the windlass. Also loading on each is decreased. Know about the event some years ago when multiple boats were lost in an anchorage off the west coast of Mexico as snubbers failed. Sudden loading and boats dragged or the cam in the windlass failed. Experienced a minor event locally on a prior boat. Due to the forecast anchored off the beach in Marion as anchorage was full. Several others did the same. Blew a consistent 40 for a few hours. Fortunately it was during the morning so you could watch things. Saw a snubber on a neighbor fail. Saw all the rode let out and the boat go aground. We left that late afternoon as the canal was favorable so didn't see the conclusion. But he was still aground when we left. So I believe in two very beefy snubbers and their being as long as possible. If I know it's going to be really snotty I might even rig a third and run it over the roller as a fail safe. May also use the roller to change angle of attack to minimize sailing at anchor on occasion. But the go to is two snubbers lead to the bow cleats.
> Anchoring is a chore. For many they won't see weather at anchor so there's no reason for overkill. Some will or can't predict with confidence if they will. In that case it isn't overkill at all to take every precaution. Didn't mean to imply that I never backdown. I do whenever I have any concern about the set. I've even backed down a day or two after anchoring if I have concern. But still think a strong initial backdown can be counterproductive in many occasions.


Serious storm conditions are a whole other matter... and require storm gear... no different that sailing. Marking chain and use of a snubber for normal conditions is a different matter... your basic every day anchoring approach.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

S love you like a brother and apologize for being nit picking but a storm still means 48-55kts sustained to me. In many places you don’t know what’s coming up. T-storms in Florida or even repetitive line squalls in Maine during the fall. Or just hours/days of fresh breeze with the occasional gust down in the islands. Don’t consider any of that storm. Do think in many places you anchor in open large bays with episodic considerable wind at times. Can’t say about this year but last year it was real common to have enough chop, at times, to make getting in the dinghy interesting. Lots of places get a good wind going for a few hours in the morning as the land thermal adds into the trades. Every place gets good and gusty as a WAVE passes by. So think being conservative is worthwhile. Especially in your cruising area. We were anchored on the NY side of L.I. Sound some years ago. A pop up came through. Lasted less than 1/2 h. Not predicted. Clocked one gust at 57. You never know. So agree on a daily basis makes sense to leave storm gear in the locker. But your routine protocol should be able to stand up to a line squall or tstorm.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

In many areas, afternoon and evening thunderstorms are a given, with winds commonly reaching 40 knots and occasionally reaching 70 knots. Been there many times. They may pop-up, relatively unpredicted, sometimes long after you are asleep. The wind was only 5 knots when you bedded down, and 3:1 with no set was OK. It won't be in 60 knots in soft mud. Better to anchor for 60 knots than have to get up at 1am in a hail storm half naked.

Would I do this in the spring of fall? No. We don't get thunderstorms in those seasons, only predicted heavy weather.

Do I worry about coral cutting the rope? Nope, no coral.

Do I worry about swinging into others at longer scope? Nope, very few anchorages are that crowded and the water is often so shallow that long scope is not that far.

The point is that areas are different. I suspect all of the posters are correct within their expereince.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

My view is that my standard anchoring should cover winds up to about 60 knots. And by this I mean my standard bower anchor, rode system, and anchoring technique. Beyond 60 may call for different tools and techniques.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

pdqaltair said:


> The wind was only 5 knots when you bedded down, and 3:1 with no set was OK. It won't be in 60 knots in soft mud. Better to anchor for 60 knots than have to get up at 1am in a hail storm half naked.


I can't honestly ever remember a hail storm here in the Caribbean, but we certainly get plenty of vicious squalls. Two nights ago we had one in Grenada with 75 mph winds recorded.
We have yet (about 5 years on the anchor 350 nights a year) to have 3:1 with all chain and a 30', 1" three strand nylon snub fail to hold the boat in the 60 knot squalls we've had since we bought the Rocna.
I don't worry about our boat dragging, though I must admit I do worry about some boats that are anchored to windward of us in these squalls.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Been using 5:1 with. Rocna one step up from recommded. Knock on wood ok to date after 7 years down in the islands. Not so much when in the chessie, block island or Maine. Have learned in Block and Chessie to NOT back down until anchor has sat for hours. Then check set before you bed down. Think it takes hours in those kind of spots for the anchor to settle through the loose soupy mud. Up to Maine back down after a few minutes of settling. Its common for there to be rock ledge under a few inches of dirt so you think you have a good set but you don't. Want to know that right off so I can move before turning the engine off.

PDQ is right

The point is that areas are different. I suspect all of the posters are correct within their expereince.

Would add your experience is limited to the spots you dropped in the past. I mean spots as different areas of the same anchorage may have very different characteristics. We keep our breadcrumbs for this reason as well as others. We put our experience in the log and will go back to check it if we don't remember. If we've never been there before look at what others have done and may go 5-7:1 if nervous about things. With the Rocna and similar don't think you gain anything extending the ratio past that.

Would be interested if anyone knows of testing to confirm what's the best ratio for these kind of anchors.

► Show Full Signature
Writing


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> S love you like a brother and apologize for being nit picking but a storm still means 48-55kts sustained to me. In many places you don't know what's coming up. T-storms in Florida or even repetitive line squalls in Maine during the fall. Or just hours/days of fresh breeze with the occasional gust down in the islands. Don't consider any of that storm. Do think in many places you anchor in open large bays with episodic considerable wind at times. Can't say about this year but last year it was real common to have enough chop, at times, to make getting in the dinghy interesting. Lots of places get a good wind going for a few hours in the morning as the land thermal adds into the trades. Every place gets good and gusty as a WAVE passes by. So think being conservative is worthwhile. Especially in your cruising area. We were anchored on the NY side of L.I. Sound some years ago. A pop up came through. Lasted less than 1/2 h. Not predicted. Clocked one gust at 57. You never know. So agree on a daily basis makes sense to leave storm gear in the locker. But your routine protocol should be able to stand up to a line squall or tstorm.


Fortunately I have managed to dodge these crazy blows while at anchor. I've been moored through a hurricane or two and had gear fail but the boat had security lines and dragged the mooring but survived.

If I had time... I would add a 2nd anchor to my rode let out more scope... add more scope to the snubber and add a 2nd "security snubber" (looser then 1st snubber) . Yes you never know when a mirco burst weather event will blast through. It may makes sense if you have warning to up anchor and deal with it at sea with plenty of sea room. Seas do kick up but if you have room to run with them it's not as bad as riding them on an anchor. I don't think it makes sense to use a "storm anchoring" strategy for day to day sailing. But it does make sense to have a strategy to deal with these events.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

capta said:


> I can't honestly ever remember a hail storm here in the Caribbean, but we certainly get plenty of vicious squalls. Two nights ago we had one in Grenada with 75 mph winds recorded.
> We have yet (about 5 years on the anchor 350 nights a year) to have 3:1 with all chain and a 30', 1" three strand nylon snub fail to hold the boat in the 60 knot squalls we've had since we bought the Rocna.
> I don't worry about our boat dragging, though I must admit I do worry about some boats that are anchored to windward of us in these squalls.


You were not anchored in soupy mud either. The holding capacity could easily be 5x less.

My point was that situations vary and advice for one location may not translate to another location. I am sure you are right, for your boat, in your region, with your ground tackle.

For example, I typically anchor in ~ 5 feet of water (current boat and last cruising cat--same numbers). 3:1 would mean 24 feet of rode. Rediculous. No catenary starting at about 15 knots. Heck, my bridle is 18 feet. In fact, I never anchor with less than 50 feet out, and not with less than 75 feet if any wind is expected. It's just not stable. I also have to be mindful of wave exposure in such shallows. But since this would leave you aground, this is not a part of your figuring. Which is fine.

It just depends.

---

As for the original question (how to mark a rode), I tried many types of markers but settled on paint 15 years ago. It works better for me. The idea of feeling to markers in the dark is (a) quaint in this day of headlamps, and (b) a good way to loose a finger. Markers either fall out, are cut off by the gypsy, or are obscured by mud in the links. Bands every 25 feet--if you are OCD then estimate between them. On the otherhand, I've never had much trouble just going by eyeball or time. The rode angle will make it pretty obvious when it comes tight.

Paint is easy if you drape the chain across an open box top. You can do it right on deck, no mess, and when it's dry, throw the box away.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

pdqaltair said:


> I tried many types of markers but settled on paint 15 years ago. It works better for me.


Likely because you anchor mostly in mud and soft bottoms. We found anchoring in sand and crushed coral can remove paint in days.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We’re in sand and crushed coral and use paint like P. Anytime we go on the hard drop all the chain for a good wash and inspection. Then paint where necessary. Have found if the chain is really clean and you use gavi paint or rustoleum get a full 12m. Found a weird orange metal prep paint in Bequia hardware store and bought several.good to go for awhile. Found any regular spray paint just doesn’t work. 
Unless it’s pitch dark just the moon is sufficient light. Hate headlamps. It’s obvious where you painted even if some is worn away. That hasn’t been an issue. 
different strokes for different folks.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

colemj said:


> Likely because you anchor mostly in mud and soft bottoms. We found anchoring in sand and crushed coral can remove paint in days.
> 
> Mark


Another plus for 3:1 anchoring; not dragging gobs of chain across the bottom and rubbing off the marks and the crumby galvanizing they use these days. So far it appears as though we'll get more than 3 times the use out of this chain than the previous two lengths we bought and used more than 3:1 scope.
About the only place we have soft mud is FdF anchorage in Martinique. It's a pretty small anchorage and at 7:1 you'd be pretty unpopular. Anchoring well outside the group leaves you at the mercy of the ferry wakes, but if you must have your 7:1, that's where you are going to end up. I honestly can't remember what scope we used last time we were there, but I can only use enough to fit in the hole I choose between boats.
3:1 was pretty standard with all chain in the '60s and most used Danforths. As new anchors came out I guess they required more scope to hold. My genuine CQR certainly did. The Bruce wasn't even designed as a short term yacht anchor, but to hold oil rigs and the like over long term use. 
I often have a lot more trouble getting the Rocna unset if I don't want to power it out, than getting it to set. It holds amazingly well at 1:1 or 1.5:1, (when bringing it up in a strong breeze, after being well set) though I'd never anchor on that scope. In an emergency, the Rocna did hold us as long as was necessary at 1.5:1, which surprised the heck out of me, and saved our a$$es, but I certainly wouldn't count on that again.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

capta said:


> Another plus for 3:1 anchoring; not dragging gobs of chain across the bottom and rubbing off the marks and the crumby galvanizing they use these days.


Reminds me of this story from a few years ago. It was a CQR anchor...


TakeFive said:


> No question that all-chain rode is more secure. But in calm conditions that chain will sit on the mud bottom and be a big mess to clean up. About a year ago we were in Eastern Bay returning from St. Michaels to Galesville in my friend's Mason 44. A fast moving thunderstorm was heading across the Bay from the west, so after making radio contact with a couple other boats who had local knowledge we followed them and ducked in behind Kent Point off of Romancoke, near where Dave anchored this weekend. The storm appeared to be coming in fast so we had to drop the hook without taking a lot of time to find a shallow spot. We were in 24' of water, so had to put out 200' of chain. As fate would have it, the storm broke up and never blew us at all. This meant that about 170' of chain was sitting on the mud bottom. It took us over an hour to hose off the whole chain as it came in, about 5' at a time.


What I didn't mention was that by the time we had finally hosed off all that mud-caked chain, ANOTHER storm was moving across Chesapeake.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I’ve done 3:1 in the places Capta refers to. Would add Marigot in St.Lucia and St Anne in Martinique to his list. Still don't like the way it resets. Will go with a Spade if my current Rocna doesn’t last as long as me. 
Capta do you think more scope would improve performance should a blow come up? Or the angle is actually better at 3:1 and more scope would cause holding power to decrease? Do note it continues to slide in further and further as time goes on. Very noticeable in hard pack. 
Its a goof to wander around in the dinghy when in clear water. You end up amazed more folks don’t drag. Common to see the entire anchor and a pile of chain.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

colemj said:


> Likely because you anchor mostly in mud and soft bottoms. We found anchoring in sand and crushed coral can remove paint in days.
> 
> Mark


Exactly. Different areas, different long splices.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Capta, What depth water do you typically anchor in?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound said:


> Capta do you think more scope would improve performance should a blow come up? Or the angle is actually better at 3:1 and more scope would cause holding power to decrease?


I don't think holding power would decrease with more scope, but I have found that the boat rides on the anchor much more comfortably on the shorter scope. We also don't hear the chain dragging along the bottom as we used to with more scope. We seem to swing less and surge on the anchor less.
I agree with whoever above who said that day to day anchoring should be suitable for 60 knots of wind, and so far as I said above, it's been years of anchoring almost every night with some pretty intense squalls without any problems on 3:1.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> Been using 5:1 with. Rocna one step up from recommded. Knock on wood ok to date after 7 years down in the islands. Not so much when in the chessie, block island or Maine. Have learned in Block and Chessie to NOT back down until anchor has sat for hours. Then check set before you bed down. Think it takes hours in those kind of spots for the anchor to settle through the loose soupy mud. Up to Maine back down after a few minutes of settling. Its common for there to be rock ledge under a few inches of dirt so you think you have a good set but you don't. Want to know that right off so I can move before turning the engine off.
> 
> PDQ is right
> 
> ...


Our experience is the same as yours.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

T37Chef said:


> These work well for me, but then I only have 50' of chain


quite recently was a thread on markings and type of paint used, if you remember it could you direct me to that thread?
thanks


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Best paint for rode markings?


What is the best type of spray paint to use to make length markings on an anchor rode? We have 100 feet of galvanized chain and 150 ft. of nylon plait. I want to mark at 50' intervals, so one or two marks will be on the chain, and two or three will be on the line. Does anyone have any...




www.sailnet.com


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

T37Chef said:


> Best paint for rode markings?
> 
> 
> What is the best type of spray paint to use to make length markings on an anchor rode? We have 100 feet of galvanized chain and 150 ft. of nylon plait. I want to mark at 50' intervals, so one or two marks will be on the chain, and two or three will be on the line. Does anyone have any...
> ...





T37Chef said:


> Best paint for rode markings?
> 
> 
> What is the best type of spray paint to use to make length markings on an anchor rode? We have 100 feet of galvanized chain and 150 ft. of nylon plait. I want to mark at 50' intervals, so one or two marks will be on the chain, and two or three will be on the line. Does anyone have any...
> ...


========================================
found the answer on other site
disregard my question
thank you


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## Sanders300DA (6 mo ago)

Geoff54 said:


> *A useful tip for those with a misspent youth.*
> 
> I was once told a great tip for marking chain that, although I have never used it, I thought was brilliant. Pick your unit of measurement (5 meters or 20 feet, perhaps) and then use paint or colored cable ties in the same sequence as the colored balls for snooker. (Red, Yellow, Green, Brown, Blue, Pink, Black). That way if you loose or miss a marker, you still know where you are. I was trying to think of a color sequence that more people would be familiar with but nothing came to mind. Any ideas??


Perhaps the colors of the rainbow are more intuitive and easier to remember the mnemonic "roy g biv"? ROYGBIV = Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue(cyan), Indigo (dark blue), Violet (purple), and add Black for the eighth. At 25 foot spacing, that's 200 foot of rode marked.


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## Sanders300DA (6 mo ago)

I've always preferred a method that used different colors, in case I miss counting a mark or 2, if distracted. With different colors, no counting is required... but we all have our own preference.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Mine are 10 meters apart.
Rub Your Balls, With Grease. 
Red
Yellow
Blue
White
Green.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

My system:


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

We stopped marking at 25' and begin at 50' because we always have more than 25' out and 50' seems to be the minimum even when we are in shallow water. 

Mark


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