# A wet bilge is MORE than just a nuisance !



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

The owner of this boat asked the yard to torque his keel bolts only there was NOTHING left to torque. Boat is mid 80's..!

These were originally 11/16 stainless bolts that has suffered from crevice corrosion and lost more than 30% of their diameter.

I often hear folks say a wet bilge is nothing more than odor and interior cabin moisture well, it is not and can mean much worse.

This is an expensive repair.. Do your best to keep your bilge dry, if possible, especially if you have an external lead keel..

IF YOUR KEEL BOLTS ARE LEAKING DO NOT JUST TORQUE THEM DROP THE KEEL AND FIX IT BEFORE YOU NEED ALL NEW BOLTS!

As our boats get older and older we WILL see more of this..!!


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

FRIGTHENING !! The thin part between the threads, is it due to metal loss or intended design ?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*No !*



trantor12020 said:


> FRIGTHENING !! The thin part between the threads, is it due to metal loss or intended design ?


The thin part is likely from crevice corrosion and is not intended.

Crevice corrosion occurs with stainless steel when water and a lack of oxygen are present. If the keel bolts leak they can rot out from crevice corrosion, in the keel stub, where you can't see them eroding. No oxygen and leaking bolts can cause this phenomenon.

Also, if an owner attempts to seal a leak by covering the bolts with an epoxy or sealant, with the good intent of saving them and stopping the leak, and they continue to leak, crevice corrosion can eat away the keel bolts, under the "protective coating", and out of site, until they disappear and whither away.

Keel bolts can leak from BOTH sides. Keeping a dry bilge will alert you to a leaking keel bolt, from the outside, and prevent crevice corrosion from the top side at least. The worst ting you can do to a known leaking keel bolt is to seal it off from the inside or torque it until it stops leaking into the boat. If it's leaking in from between the hull to keel joint you have only sealed in the water, that already leaked in, and have just exacerbated and made the potential for crevice corrosion worse..


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good reason for getting a catamaran.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Main:

About a month or so ago you posted pictures of your keel bolts with the comment " Not bad looking for a thirty year old boat" (Paraphrased) I almost replied " Ya but that dosent mean much, its what you cant see that you have to worry about" but I knew you knew that so I didnt say anything...

Mine also look brand new like yours ...but I wonder???

Someday I may peal my hull...If I do.. Im dropping the keel to find out.

Now the $1.98 question...How the heck does one install new bolts?


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## TxLnghrn (Apr 22, 2008)

*New Keel Bolts*

I have a recommendation from a well respected surveyor on for a similar, but less serious (hopefully)  issue on the 1987 Pearson 31-2 I just purchased. According to him the fix is to not replace the bolts, but to drill in new lag bolts to reinforce. Then of course acheive and maintain a dry bilge and seal all the bolts. 
Michael


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Stillraining said:


> Main:
> 
> About a month or so ago you posted pictures of your keel bolts with the comment " Not bad looking for a thirty year old boat" (Paraphrased) I almost replied " Ya but that dosent mean much, its what you cant see that you have to worry about" but I knew you knew that so I didnt say anything...
> 
> ...


But, I've removed the nuts, checked the threads and I know the keel to hull joint is bone dry and my keel bolts don't leak. My boat has been in the water for a couple of weeks and my bilge still has dust in it...

*Keel Bolt Replacement:*

The best, strongest and safest method of keel bolt replacement is done by Mars Metals and a few others. This is the description from Mars:

_ "The bolt replacement process goes through these general steps:

• The damaged bolts are identified when the keel arrives.
• The bolts are removed through one side of the keel. This is done with a great deal of skill with a torch taking 
the upper surface of the lead away. 
• The old bolt is used as a pattern for the production of the new bolt. Most keel bolts are J hooked or bent in 
some manner. 
• Once the old bolt is removed there is a "saddle" of lead remaining, creating the position for the new bolt to 
be held.
• The new bolt is fabricated from new matching material.
• The new bolt can even be welded back into the bolt cage right in the keel. 
• The new bolt is fused into place. Lead is melted back on top of the new bolt, fusing the original lead and 
the new lead, making the repair as strong as the original keel. 
• The entire surface of the keel is faired, both sides.
• The root cord is cleaned.
• The remaining original keel bolts are cleaned and readied for installation on the boat."

*
Here is a more detailed description:* _*Keel Bolt Replacement

*Anything other than completely installing new J-bolts is a band-aid at best. I should know I used a band-aid approach on one of my old boats and would never, ever consider doing it again!! This was before I, or my boat yard, knew of the Mars Metal process for replacing keel bolts..


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## TxLnghrn (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks for the response Halekai. The surveyor did mention the Mars method as well as another method that involved cutting a window through the keel, running a rod and tying new bolts to it. But he felt that with the limited corrosion on my bolts (three out of ten showing any damage). that the lag bolts providing some extra support would be more than sufficient, for my style of cruising.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Stainless typically is an awful material when it gets starved of oxygen and chlorides (from seawater) are present.
Give me an encapsulated keel every time, made from lead, encapsulated in GRP.
That way there are no keel bolts.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Are you talking about deck stepped masts? It would seem impossible to keep the bilge dry with a keel stepped mast. Too many holes in the mast that will let rain water in. Maybe not a lot but some will get in.

I also have 2 aircons that dump condensate into the bilge. Any easy ways to keep that out?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Xort..*

I too have a keel stepped mast but I created a mast sump or mast catch basin. My mast sump is separated from the rest of the bilge and I drain after a rain or fog. Yes I get water down my mast but usually not much more than a quart after a good rain. You are right that there is no way to seal off the mast but you can catch it if you're creative.

As for your AC you can use a condensate pump and discharge the condensate overboard instead of into the bilge.

If I'm not mistaken though I thought you were on the lakes. While crevice corrosion does occur in fresh water it is reportedly somewhat less aggressive.

Having been through a keel re-set and keel bolt replacement due to a leaking keel to hull joint that resulted in severe crevice corrosion I now take keeping my bilge dry a lot more seriously...

Even back in 1998 it ran me huge money and I did a large chunk of the labor myself...

Believe me, I bought my boat last spring, and it took me all summer to isolate every leak, whether fresh or salt water and put an end to them. I had a couple of annoying ones that took a while to find but I finally did.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There are so many other reasons to keep your bilge as dry as possible... osmosis, galvanic corrosion between the mast step and keel-stepped mast foot, keel bolts, etc...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

All good reasons for an encapsulated keel!


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I have a lead encapsulated keel!

And I'm in fesh water, for now!

But I still want a dry bilge.

Halekai, thanks for the answer. Is there something specific you're referring to when you mention 'condensate pump'?

I have been eyeballing my mast step and considering blocking off that area to create a sump. The forward A/C drains there too. Thinking of putting a shower sump type pump there. Only thing to figure out is where to drain it. The forward head is nearby. One thing I'm puzzled by is that the forward sink drain seems to go straight down to the hull. Wouldn't water back up there? I expected the sink drain to go through the topsides of the hull.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

xort said:


> I have been eyeballing my mast step and considering blocking off that area to create a sump. The forward A/C drains there too. Thinking of putting a shower sump type pump there. Only thing to figure out is where to drain it. The forward head is nearby. One thing I'm puzzled by is that the forward sink drain seems to go straight down to the hull. Wouldn't water back up there? I expected the sink drain to go through the topsides of the hull.


Yeah, all you need is a shower pump or a small bilge pump and float switch. The AC could possibly drain into the same sump as the mast and you could then Y into your bilge discharge hose or sink drain. I always close my seacocks so the sink drain is not a place I'd drain a sump to..


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> But, I've removed the nuts, checked the threads and I know the keel to hull joint is bone dry and my keel bolts don't leak. My boat has been in the water for a couple of weeks and my bilge still has dust in it.....


Thanks for the info Main...I figured as much as far as melting in new bolts...
One thing though you say you took off your nuts and (washers) to inspect them...But clearly the crevice corrosion in your photos is past the hull and in the space between hull and keel..do you feel confidant that your inspection revealed all that much and there are no issues beyond what you can see?...I thought of backing mine off too but then wondered if it would really be of any real indication?...I know there is a process to x-ray chain plates within the hull and was wondering if this was a viable x-ray inspection process as well for our keel bolts?

Again appreciate all you contribute to this forum.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

X-raying the hull/keel join and lead are kind of mutually exclusive. 


Stillraining said:


> Thanks for the info Main...I figured as much as far as melting in new bolts...
> One thing though you say you took off your nuts and (washers) to inspect them...But clearly the crevice corrosion in your photos is past the hull and in the space between hull and keel..do you feel confidant that your inspection revealed all that much and there are no issues beyond what you can see?...I thought of backing mine off too but then wondered if it would really be of any real indication?...I know there is a process to x-ray chain plates within the hull and was wondering if this was a viable x-ray inspection process as well for our keel bolts?
> 
> Again appreciate all you contribute to this forum.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> X-raying the hull/keel join and lead are kind of mutually exclusive.


Ya Dog, I knew about the lead issue but was thinking of coming at it from an angel that might get the space above the lead and below the hull.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It really depends on where the hull-keel join is then... in many boats there wouldn't have clearance above to get the xray machine head in there.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Keel bolts can be in weird places. For example, keel wings on my old Beneteau (back 10 years ago or so) were apparently attached using bolts to the main keel part. One day we hit underwater rock - and then found on the next haul out that the wings were gone. Looks like they were sheared off by the power of impact - but bolts were probably not in great shape by then. This was an expensive insurance repair job.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Another reason I really like my Everdur bronze keel bolts.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

I know I'm dredging up an old post, but this is the closest thread I've seen to my current question and I have a possible answer for a question posed earlier in the thread.

First my question. what do people do to remove the last bit of water the bilge pump won't remove? I've seen the combination boat hook/manual pump but at around $50 it seems a rather expensive option. Anybody have any ideas to quickly remove that last bit of water? I have a traditional stuffing box, keel stepped mast and AC dumping condensate into the bilge, but want to try to keep it as dry as I can, and hope there is something a bit quicker and easeir than using a turkey baster.

Secondly, to the person asking about how to keep AC condensate out of the bilge a ventrui valve might be an option. Its basically a venturi placed in the AC outflow line then plumbed into the condensate tray. The flow of water throught the cooling pump will suction the condensate out of the drain pan keeping the water out of the bilge.

How a Mazzei® Injector Works - Mazzei Injector Corp

People on the C36 forum have reported good success with a 584 and 684 and I plan to install one while the boat is hauled to reduce the amount of water finding its way into the bilge.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A big sponge is usually pretty effective.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sham Wow!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cam-

What percentage commission do you get???


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Cam-
> 
> What percentage commission do you get???


Did I miss the 2 for 1 special...I want one.......Im serious


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cam, you just made it to the hit list in my house. I hate that freaking ad. 


Now on to the keel bolts. I had an idea awile back to take some PVC pipe just a bit bigger than the keel bolts/nuts and put it around the bolt sticking about 6-8'' up into the bilge. Figure out some way to seal the bottom of the pipes and then pour about 3-4'' of epoxy into the bilge. Put caps on the pipes and you now have dry bolts even if the bilge gets wet. Also you can tell just what bolt is leaking if you have a leak. 

Sound like a good idea?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

This thread is giving me a headache.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Distant Star...I think you need Mighty Putty for that project!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Cam...Your a spamer....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Now that is just unfair Still...perhaps you're feeling left out? Here's some space age technology for you to help you stop dropping stuff in your wet bilge! Perhaps now, you'll recognize my links as simply a service I am trying to provide to my fellow sailors who constantly struggle with so many problems.

Tool Band-it


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

midlifesailor said:


> First my question. what do people do to remove the last bit of water the bilge pump won't remove? I've seen the combination boat hook/manual pump but at around $50 it seems a rather expensive option. Anybody have any ideas to quickly remove that last bit of water? I have a traditional stuffing box, keel stepped mast and AC dumping condensate into the bilge, but want to try to keep it as dry as I can, and hope there is something a bit quicker and easeir than using a turkey baster.


 I generally keep two 'tools' on the boat, a small wetvac, and a hair dryer, the wet vac is usefull for many other things, as a blower it will start charcoal very quickly, and inflates air mattresses and kids inflatable toys, helps speed drying of wet clothes etc if you vacuum the water out. For pillows and cushions, put them in a plastic bag and tape the neck of the bag around the nozzle, it'll collapse the bag and suck the water out. They can't realy be beat for cleaning and drying out a boat. Also gets air moving in the boat to air it out fast if you put the hose on the exhaust and stick it through a port
The hair dryer will help start carbed engnes in cold weather, warm the carb and the engine starts easily, usefull anywhere you want warm air quickly.

Granted, for most you need AC power, but while I haven't tried them, I'v seen a few that are made for DC use.

Ken.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

It's made in Germany...They always make the best stuff...You hear what I'm tellin' ya'!!

Maybe my boat(s) are/were strange but there is a point before a sponge or even a GASP! Sham-Wow would be the tool of choice.

Maybe I'll just spring for the combo boat hook pump thingy at the boat show this year to suction out that last 1/2" of water before I hit it with my Sham-wow.

Ken,
Thanks for the idea. I have a mini wet-dry shop vac on board, but my wife might throw a fit if I used it to vaccum water out of the bilge, but I may give it a try though.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

midlifesailor said:


> my wife might throw a fit if I used it to vaccum water out of the bilge, but I may give it a try though.


Just make sure you don't have any gasoline (or gas) floating on the water when you suck it out. These vacuums react very badly with gasoline/gas and are likely to light up your life (amongst other things)


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

(Ya, I know it's an old thread...)

I thought that I should share a couple of pictures that Illustrate this point.

One of the boats I was looking at had "some" moisture in the bilge (actually, most). The owner periodically pumped it out, or let the bilge pump handle it. I'll tell you now that I eventually bought this boat, and will live with the consequences.

When I went to look at the boat, with the intent of purchasing, here is what the bilge looked like (unfortunately it still looks a lot like this today):









and here are the keel bolts;
























Not too bad - or so I thought...

I eventually made an offer on this boat, and when it went to survey here is what the keel looked like; 
Pre powerwash;









Post powerwash;









Something struck me as odd about the keel, and the way that it sat in relation to the hull... After much insistence to the surveyor, and the broker, and the owner, and the yard manager, the surveyor checked it out...

Sure enough, the keel was loose, and the bottom would move about ¼" from side to side. Not a lot, but enough to kill the deal.

The owner faced with this prospect wisely decided to repair the problem and go from there. He had the keel dropped, and here is what we saw;

























































Four of the seven bolts were TOAST

The owner paid over $9500 to have this situation addressed by the yard.

The yard sent the keel out to I Broomfield & Son in Providence, RI. I asked them about their procedure, and this is what they said;


> When replacing keel bolts, we melt the lead around the bolt, remove the old
> bolt (which is usually 304 SS), and replace it with a new bolt (316SS). The
> lead is replaced and the keel is faired and painted around the area. The
> cost is ~$500.00 per bolt. Depending upon the time of year, the number of
> ...


The yard reattached the keel by first bedding it in 5200 [EDIT: I now believe it is 4200 (or something similar)], and then lowering the boat onto the keel. Then they wrapped the keel in fiberglass & epoxy, and refaired the keel. Here is a pic AFTER the fix;









Wet bilge = BAD


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

What kind of a boat was it? $9500 sounds like it might be half the price


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I didn't get an itemized bill but;
Keel bolts: $500 * 7 = ~$3500
Dropping and rebedding the keel (4500lbs) plus 60 miles (round trip) for the keel: ~$6300

Sounds about right...


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## SailingWebGuy (May 5, 2010)

Wow...this thread scares me. The keel bolts on mine are so badly corroded away that some could pierce a barefoot if someone stepped on them. I've asked around quite a bit and was told that I could drill into the keel from the bilge and insert 18" SS lag bolts and torque them down to 150 lbs.

Has anyone ever done the repair with lag bolts? What are you thoughts?


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

SailingWebGuy said:


> I've asked around quite a bit and was told that I could drill into the keel from the bilge and insert 18" SS lag bolts and torque them down to 150 lbs.
> 
> Has anyone ever done the repair with lag bolts? What are you thoughts?


I would recommend against bandaid solutions to something as critical as the keel. Take the boat to a good yard and let them fix it properly. Remember, the keel isn't likely to fall off on a sunny day with a gentle breeze. It will probably fail when the boat (and crew) is being stressed. Loosing the keel could spoil your entire day.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Bad idea... much better to farm the work out and have the keel bolts replaced properly.



SailingWebGuy said:


> Wow...this thread scares me. The keel bolts on mine are so badly corroded away that some could pierce a barefoot if someone stepped on them. I've asked around quite a bit and was told that I could drill into the keel from the bilge and insert 18" SS lag bolts and torque them down to 150 lbs.
> 
> Has anyone ever done the repair with lag bolts? What are you thoughts?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Without micro-analysis, etc. these bolts look like classic 'fretting corrosion' ... where the motion of the parts continually by frictional abrasion remove the surface corrosion resistant layer ... and therefore corrosion is accelerated. If this was the more common 'crevice corrosion' I'd expect that those affected bolts would have 'cleaved -through' long ago. 

If this is fretting corrosion, then a simple yearly re-torquing of those bolts would have prevented this.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

SailingWebGuy said:


> Wow...this thread scares me. The keel bolts on mine are so badly corroded away that some could pierce a barefoot if someone stepped on them. I've asked around quite a bit and was told that I could drill into the keel from the bilge and insert 18" SS lag bolts and torque them down to 150 lbs.
> 
> Has anyone ever done the repair with lag bolts? What are you thoughts?


I agree with the others - BAD IDEA.

Note by looking carefully at the pictures that the area adjacent to the keel bolts is filled with foam. It looks like polyisocyanurate, but it really does not matter...

The point is that without dropping the keel, we would never have appreciated the extent of the damage, OR known where the lead came to the top of the keel.

If the PO had taken your approach, they could have drilled holes through the bottom of the keel stub, and lagged into FOAM.

You'd look like this:


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

RichH said:


> If this is fretting corrosion, then a simple yearly re-torquing of those bolts would have prevented this.


Getting at the forward bolt will be a problem. I believe that it is directly under the mast step. I will have to get a socket deep enough (~6"), AND short enough so that the socket and wrench will fit under the step (~10")... Oh yes, then I will have to find enough room to turn the wrench... I believe that these are 1½" bolts.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Here is a pic of another keel bolt on a newer boat which I did NOT buy.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

billyruffn said:


> I would recommend against bandaid solutions to something as critical as the keel. Take the boat to a good yard and let them fix it properly. Remember, the keel isn't likely to fall off on a sunny day with a gentle breeze. It will probably fail when the boat (and crew) is being stressed. Loosing the keel could spoil your entire day.


Ditto, a boat near me lost it's keel, and a bunch of people died. It turtled and sank like a rock.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong, but can this be the same website, that, only about a week ago, had some deep fin keel devotee telling us how wonderful they are and how utterly superior they were compared to the long keel concept?

Long keels, you know, with the keel encased in GRP and with no keel bolts?

Inherently inferior to that modern stuff, apparently.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Newer stuff is ALWAYS better!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Rockter said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but can this be the same website, that, only about a week ago, had some deep fin keel devotee telling us how wonderful they are and how utterly superior they were compared to the long keel concept?
> 
> Long keels, you know, with the keel encased in GRP and with no keel bolts?
> 
> Inherently inferior to that modern stuff, apparently.


News flash: Fin keels can also come as encapsulated ballast with no bolts. Mine is.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Rockter said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but can this be the same website, that, only about a week ago, had some deep fin keel devotee telling us how wonderful they are and how utterly superior they were compared to the long keel concept?
> 
> Long keels, you know, with the keel encased in GRP and with no keel bolts?
> 
> Inherently inferior to that modern stuff, apparently.


Some shorter keels are fully encapsulated without bolts too, like all the later Bristols (like mine)


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## dsmauney (Feb 29, 2000)

Something I noticed in all the great pictures and the one slightly effected bolt I had is that the corrosion is where the keel nuts are. Mine was at the level of the lock nut. Not down in the hole where the bottom of the bilge is. In fact in the worse case corrosion is at the location of the primary nut and the lock nut. This means that periodic removal of the nuts on the hard as Maine suggest for inspection would work. It also fits Rich C fretting corrosion idea. For that anti-seize after inspection and retorquing makes since. Of course not to mention keep the bilge dry and the seal in tack. 
Just thoughts. 

Goodwinds
DaveM


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Stillraining said:


> Now the $1.98 question...How the heck does one install new bolts?


Buy a boat with an iron keel.  They are an easy replacement because they are studs drilled & tapped into the iron, not cast in place with J bends like in a lead keel.

If you have a lead keel, bring $$$ to the boatyard.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Since a fin keel and it's bolts was the death of my wooden boat, I am very VERY happy that my current boat has an encapsulated lead keel. It's part of the boat, not just bolted on. It was a feature I was looking for specifically after my prior nightmare. 

MedSailor


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## steel (Sep 1, 2010)

Couldn't you weld on more stainless in those places where the bolts were corroded away? Then grind it almost round with a flap disk sander and re-thread it. Hopefully the stainless wouldn't become sensitized and lose it's corrosion resistance. Maybe putting on some kind of paint or filling the whole area up with silicone would help?


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

How about filling the volume with waterproof grease?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

A voice in the wilderness...perhaps.

My bilges have ALWAYS been wet. And, believe it or not, there are some advantages.

I'm talking about 17 years experience as a liveaboard....always had water in the bilge and NEVER had any problems, including blistering or delaminating or....you name it, as a result. I'm talking about 22 additional years on my present boat. Never had any evident problems...no blistering, no delamination, etc.

That's a total of 39 user years of experience, in both fresh and salt water.

BUT...and it's a big BUT....neither of these boats had a bolt-on keel. The first was a houseboat with no keel. The second is a sailboat with an encapsulated IRON keel.

The advantages? 

1. Gives your bilge pump switches and pumps a nice workout...you know they're working as they should and you tend to maintain them more diligently; 

2. You don't worry about the little stuff: a drip-drip-drip from the stuffing box, a bit of rain water finding it's way below, a down-the-mast leak, an A/C condensate or icebox drain into the bilge or....whatever. These are very minor things and not a concern if you have chronically wet bilges;

3. A little water slushing around with a bit of bilge cleaner added occasionally and pumped out periodically tends to keep the dirt and dust down (and who wants dusty bilges, anyway?); and

4. Wet bilges are great if you have a fathometer transducer mounted INSIDE the hull....always in a bit of water!

If you have a wood boat and are in salt water, the salt water helps to "pickle" the wood in the bilges....a good thing, generally.

Guess what, folks? Fiberglass boats, as well as wood, aluminum, steel, and ferrocement boats, are actually MEANT TO BE IMMERSED IN WATER. That's what a boat is designed for!

Only a bit of tongue-in-cheek here....some boats are just fine with water in the bilge  

But, admittedly, if I had a boat with keel bolts I'd be much more concerned about water in the bilge!

Bill


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## mike27' (May 6, 2012)

I have a Coranado with a slow leak coming in from where the rudder goes through the hull what can I do? is there a way to fix it in the water?

Mike


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

mike27' said:


> I have a Coranado with a slow leak coming in from where the rudder goes through the hull what can I do? is there a way to fix it in the water?
> 
> Mike


Yes. The rudder likely has a bearing that is packed with flax impregnated string. This is called a stuffing glad or stuffing box. Since it's leaking it may just need tightening, or it might need replacement of the stuffing material.

If you look at the fitting, odds are you have 2 collars that you can attach a wrench to. They should be tight against each other right now so that they're locked in place.

You can try tightening it by using TWO wrenches and twisting them opposite each other. Once the lock nut is freed (usually the top one) you can tighten down on the bottom collar and see if the leak stops. If the leak stops, and you can still turn your rudder without binding, go ahead and tighten down the top nut against the bottom one and you're all done.

If you do the above and it doesn't fix the leak you need to replace the packing. Lucky for you packing is cheap and it _can_ be done in the water but before you try it make sure you've got someone aboard who's done it before to show you.

Google or search sailnet for "repacking a rudder gland" and you might get something better with pictures. Good luck!

MedSailor


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## mike27' (May 6, 2012)

Thank you so much I'll work on it this week and I think I have the same problem by the drive shaft, make sense?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

mike27' said:


> Thank you so much I'll work on it this week and I think I have the same problem by the drive shaft, make sense?


Exactly - both are glands or stuffing boxes - they perform exactly the same function but the adjustment of the one on your drive shaft is more critical because of the speed it runs at.

A rudder gland can simply be adjusted until you feel the drag in the tiller, then back off slightly before tightening the locknut.

A shaft log must be carefully tightened until it drips just slightly when running - a drip every few seconds. Any tighter and it will dry out and burn up your shaft.


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## mike27' (May 6, 2012)

I do have a bit of "give " in the tiller will the stiffing box fix that too?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

mike27' said:


> I do have a bit of "give " in the tiller will the stiffing box fix that too?


Possibly but not likely - that's probably worn bearings.


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## dsmauney (Feb 29, 2000)

By what I saw on my keel when I dropped it and what Ed H and Maine Sail show in their great pictures the corrosion loss is inside the nuts above the bilge floor. The thickness of the bilge floor being indicated by the white 5200 on the threads. What this means of course is that the bolts can be inspected by removing the nuts while on the hard. Am I missing something here?

Good Winds
DaveM


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Dave,

I believe that removing and then re-torquing the keel bolts you would not only be able to inspect the bolts for signs of corrosion, but you would allow oxygen to reach the metal, thus enabling the stainless to develop the film that protects it.

The challenge is getting those big-honkin' bolts off, and on again, within the tight confines of the bilge...


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