# Well my day really sucked.



## TSOJOURNER

Well ive been busy with alot of other stuff and haven't messed with my boat much over the last 2 months. The bulkhead issue was pretty much at the same spot that it was 2 months ago. Ive been anchored out in this nice little creek where i figured the boat was nice and safe. I check on it daily and have been out there once a week, but last night was not a good night for me, or my boat. We had a nasty little squall blow in last night, and im guessing it put my boat up close to the marsh, tide went out and she laid over. If it would have laid to the marsh, it would have been fine, but it went out to the creek.

2 Months ago when i put it there.









As she sits now. 

























Ive got a salvage plan already. I've got to pick up a 15,000gph gas powered pump in the morning. Im going to use the pump to wash the mud out from under the keel and try to get it up to a point where i can pump the water out and float it again. Then she comes to my house for a major refit.


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## PorFin

Man, what a heartbreaker! 

Best of luck with the recovery and rebuild.


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## mrwuffles

Man I really feel for ya that is not fun, good luck with it there is nothing worse than finding your boat not where you left it


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## TSOJOURNER

Ouch. Sorry to see that man.


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## badsanta

Best of luck.


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## TSOJOURNER

Yea i can see it from the bridge in the background of the last pic. I drove across this morning about 8:30 to take my granddad to the doctor and saw it. It's rough seeing it like that since we lived aboard it for 2 years. Ive been gathering parts and supplies for the refit, and now im damn glad i didn't have it all stored on the boat.


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## T37SOLARE

That really really sucks, so sorry to see this.


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## bubb2

So sad, my heart sinks for you!


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## chall03

My heart really sank when I saw this. She is a beautiful boat, I wish you the best of luck.


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## PBzeer

Tough break, best of luck. Makes my shorepower cord getting fried today seem like a nonevent.


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## craigtoo

You sir... need a drink.

Hop on over to the pub.... (see signature)

All the very best.. You'll get her back in shape in no time....!!!
(Go Tigers...Clemson that is..)


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## CalebD

Very disheartening. Sorry to hear about this. The Pearson's are nice boats.

This may not be the best time to ask but she was attached to a real mooring (mushroom anchor or equivalent) right?

It is a very nice boat so I hope the salvage goes smoothly.


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## craigtoo

Pearson makes a solid boat.

She'll be alright! Heck.. take some creative shots and pass it off as a BFS...!

beer
beer
beer


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## Maine Sail

That really sucks!

From July 2008



SVDistantStar said:


> Ok ive got 2 anchors out on my boat. Both are on 200' of line and 30' of 3/8''s chain with 30# bruces on each one. Ive got a max depth of about 35'. Both of my anchors are out, one up river and one down river. Both only have about 15-20' of line left on the boat. They hold great, untill the wind blows across the river, then im screwed.
> 
> My boat is a Pearson 36 weighing in at 13tons. All extra windage has been removed save for the boom and bimini. Any ideas to get it to stay put without an extra anchor, other than getting around to putting my mooring down.


Did you ever get around to putting down a real mooring? You have posts that go back to 2007 asking about adding a "real" mooring and have had quite a slew of anchors. Was your boat on anchor at the time or a mooring?

She's survived once she'll do it again!!


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## TSOJOURNER

She was at anchor. This was a hold over area until we were able to haul it out.


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## TSOJOURNER

Maine, you posted while i was typing. No i never got a real mooring down, and over the past few months ive had some real ****ty luck with things. She was down to having a single anchor large enough to hold her. Its been doing good in the creek there, but that little storm was un-expected for me last night. If i would have been keeping up with the weather, i would have been out there yesterday to see just how it was laying in the creek. This is my fault and i know it.


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## Maine Sail

SVDistantStar said:


> She was at anchor. This was a hold over area until we were able to haul it out.


What was the anchor? What size? What was the scope? Chain or chain to rope? What was the bottom?

This might be good info and data for folks with a boat your size who don't want to end up in the same situation. If we can't learn from mistakes we are bound to repeat them..

Were you on your Danforth, Bruce or Oceane??


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## craigtoo

We're here for ya. 

All the very best on the recovery. 

If you need someone to wade through the muck with you..or help on the clean out / repair .... gimme a shout.... I get down to SC pretty regular...

beer.


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## TSOJOURNER

It was on the 40# Oceane anchor, 30' of 3/8'' chain and about 40' of rope. The bottom is mud/sand mixture with some weeds. Its a shallow creek, only about 10' deep at low tide. I kept it on a bit of a short scope since the creek wasn't really wide. Its wide enough to keep the boat in, but too much scope would have put me in the same spot.

Craig, im going to be out there tomorrow afternoon. Im hoping to have her afloat by the end of the weekend. Already got crew for the weekend, thanks for the offer though.

Heres another picture. I opened the door just to peak inside and see what all was afloat. You can see that the settee and bulkhead are still out.


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## bestfriend

Ouch, so sorry my friend.


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## craigtoo

No sweat SV.

Good luck and let us know how she turns out ok?


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## sailingdog

Ouch... that really sucks. Good luck on getting everything done to get her refloated.


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## Omatako

Is it not amazing how much destruction goes on in a boat when it's not sitting upright?

I hope it's better than it looks. Good luck with the re-work


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## mgmhead

Sorry to learn of your problems and wish you well...MGM


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## seabreeze_97

Four letter word........rhymes with..........TRUCK!


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## scottyt

you might want to run a halyard to land to help it stand up. 

other ideas is to go get some truck tire inner tubes and lash them to the hull on the water side and inflate them, it might get it up out of the water faster. i also saw some pics years ago about some one who used sand bags around the back of a partially sunk crab boat so they could just use a pump to get it up higher. 6 inches of sand bags on the rail on the down side night help, its less you have to get to float up before you pump it out

other wise sorry to hear it, wish i was closer to come help


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## Bene505

So sorry to see that. What a heartache.

Best of luck getting her upright again and dried out.

What can we do to help?


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## chef2sail

Dam...my heart sumk. Best of luck Keep you chin up

Dave


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## jrd22

Rough break, I feel for you. Good luck on getting her floating again. Keep us posted.


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## camaraderie

Sorry for your trouble DS...good luck with the re-fit.


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## Naughtylus

Hmmm... In my experience, it's the idea of all that work which is often worse than the actual task!
Once you've climbed on board and made a start, things will go smoothly one thing at a time.
Good luck and glad you have some friends to help.


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## WheresTheBrakes

I OWE YOU A FAVOR..(you gave me a ride to shore the first time I launched Julianne) 
I CAN GET MY 18CC IN THE WATER ANYTIME TOMORROW i live less than a mile away, AND HELP YOU ANYWAY AT ALL .. 

Please give me a call .. PH# five three two nine one eight eight


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## labatt

That sucks big time. You should rename her "Phoenix" as I'm sure she'll rise again, better than ever.


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## STTnBama

Hate to see that happen to anyone or any boat..especially a pearson.


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## Valiente

Condolences...that is rough. I'm surprised the CG aren't on you for leaking fuel or something, unless you sealed vents and a few other things.


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## SimonV

That is just bad luck. good luck with the refit and keep us informed.


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## xort

chin up and good luck!


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## TSOJOURNER

DNR gave me a call less than 3-4 hours after i noticed it. Theres no fuel, sewage or anything at all on board. I had pretty much everything removed from the boat. About the only high dollar item left on board was the stove. 

WheresTheBrakes, i sent you a PM with my number. I sent that PM before i read the thread, yea i know who you are now. Ill give you a call later today if i don't hear from you.


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## TSOJOURNER

Just a little bit of info for anyone that hasn't see some of my old threads. This boat sunk 20 years ago in Hugo, so she's no virgin to being under water.


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## mccary

I am sure the worst is behind you. That would be seeing her on her side as you crossed the bridge. If it had been me I might have driven off the bridge. Wishing you all the best and I am sure you will have a detailed plan and stick to it, checking off each item one by one and sooner rather than later you will be done. The bright side is this happened just before a refit and not just after.


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## patrickrea

Good luck on the refloat. That was not a good thing to wake up to.


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## AjariBonten

Man, having been there; there is no way to effectively describe the pit-in-the-stomach feeling when you first see your boat in a bad lay.

My heart breaks for you.

Best of luck, and all of that


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## sailhog

DistantStar,
Man, my heart goes out to you... that really was a nasty storm that rolled through here Wednesday night. I woke up to this strange rumbling sound and couldn't figure out what it was. The dog was lodged between my wife and me, and shaking like a leaf. I got up, walked around the house for a while, and then saw a flicker of light through the trees to the west. That's when I realized that a thunderstorm was on its way... in mid-February... 

Hang in there, cap'n...


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## eMKay

If I were there, I wouldn't hesitate to offer my help. Good luck.


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## CBinRI

UGH. I wish you the best of luck with it. I have spent some time on a seventies era Pearson 36 and would suggest that it is worth the effort.


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## TSOJOURNER

Well things are coming together. I go to pick up the pump after i eat lunch(crab legs at that). Got WheresTheBrakes bringing out an 18ft centre console and a buddy of mine coming out. The plan right now is to use the pump to dig out around the keel so she can roll up onto her belly. We're also going to rig a block and tackle from the boat to some anchors set on shore and use that to help roll it. Its going to be a task, but its going to happen. Distant Star will float again soon.


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## craigtoo

Go for it SVD!

Good luck...be careful.


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## AllThumbs

Makes me want to cry dude. All the best.


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## imagine2frolic

I can't imagine the feeling in the stomache. Sounds like a good plan already. BEST WISHES in making her upright soon.....i2f


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## sailingfool

I guess I posted the following only last week - did you read it?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51432-silly-questions-rookie.html

"Leaving an anchored boat unattended has some risk...I've done it once or twice for a short period. You do it daily for a season, you need to ask yourself each day "Do you feel lucky today?".

Some day you'll go down there and find your boat on the shore. If you're lucky, it'll only cost a big bundle to get it off, if you are not lucky, she'll be a total loss."


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## craigtoo

sailingfool said:


> I guess I posted the following only last week - did you read it?
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51432-silly-questions-rookie.html
> 
> "Leaving an anchored boat unattended has some risk...I've done it once or twice for a short period. You do it daily for a season, you need to ask yourself each day "Do you feel lucky today?".
> 
> Some day you'll go down there and find your boat on the shore. If you're lucky, it'll only cost a big bundle to get it off, if you are not lucky, she'll be a total loss."


You didn't just "I-told-you-so!" a guy did you? 

geesh... I think he came here looking for support.


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## TomandKarens34

You have your work cut out for you, but It'll happen. Best of luck and hope it goes smooth !


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## CBinRI

sailingfool said:


> I guess I posted the following only last week - did you read it?
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51432-silly-questions-rookie.html
> 
> "Leaving an anchored boat unattended has some risk...I've done it once or twice for a short period. You do it daily for a season, you need to ask yourself each day "Do you feel lucky today?".
> 
> Some day you'll go down there and find your boat on the shore. If you're lucky, it'll only cost a big bundle to get it off, if you are not lucky, she'll be a total loss."


You must be very proud. Your compassion is overwhelming.


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## Faster

Serious bummer.... best of luck bringing her back!


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## mdidriksen

CBinRI said:


> You must be very proud. Your compassion is overwhelming.


Did you see his post before he edited it? This is the nice version . . .


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## craigtoo

mdidriksen said:


> Did you see his post before he edited it? This is the nice version . . .


CB's?

or Sailingfool's?


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## Valiente

Good grief...I think if you can't show up with hip waders, a shovel and a high-volume pump, it's probably best to keep the "lore of the sea" stuff to a minimum.


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## mdidriksen

craigtoo said:


> CB's?
> 
> or Sailingfool's?


SFs


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## Flybyknight

*That Almost Happened to Me*

SV,
My sincere sympathies. If I lived near by I would certainly offer to help.
The same thing almost happened to my Cape Dory 25, but I was fortunate to be able to muscle it off on the next high tide. Then I got serious.

Here is The Solution for Next Time:

"Three Point Mooring."

3 Deltas 120° apart, 20 feet deep in a mud bottom, each with 50 feet of chain, plus 75 feet of rope to a ring in a small killick. Then chain up to a mooring ball.

That set up allowed my boat to take a 40 knot blow with gusts to 60.

I sincerely hope that by now your boat is floating proud.

Dick


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## TSOJOURNER

Today is the day of the salvage mission. Im getting ready to head out the door to gather up a few more things, then its out onto the river. 

I have a pretty solid mooring planned for it after this, my back yard on stands.


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## bubb2

good luck to you!


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## TSOJOURNER

Best of luck SV, and if time permits, photos.


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## sailhog

Good luck, DistantStar. My heart goes out to you, Cap'n. Affordable slip space in Charleston is all but non-existent. The PO of my boat, who was based in Charleston, had it at the city marina where the waiting list was some three years...


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## jrd22

I really admire your attitude, no whining or sniveling, just get the job done. Refreshing. Best of luck to you, wish I was there to help.


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## eryka

SVDistantStar said:


> Today is the day of the salvage mission. Im getting ready to head out the door to gather up a few more things, then its out onto the river.
> 
> I have a pretty solid mooring planned for it after this, my back yard on stands.


Hope all goes well!


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## TSOJOURNER

No need to fuss, the worst has already happened. Yea, this really sucks, but **** happens. At least its in shallow water. This isn't the first boat ive salvaged, but it will be the last, i hope. Im waiting on the crew to arrive right now. Picked up the pump an hour or so ago. The first one was all wrong for what we needed. So now ive got this nice little honda and they even had a rig pretty much suited for what i need.


















Its a rig for digging holes for pilings. This thing should do the job just fine. And yes, i will be getting photos as it goes along.


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## craigtoo

God Bless, SVDS!

Go for it! You know you were always lookin' for a good reason to scrub every square inch of her! Well here ya go!


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## djodenda

Good Luck!

We're cheering for you!

David


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## josrulz

Wishing the best to SVDistantStar! I just can't imagine...


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## Rockter

Best wishes SV.

Take care there. That's a lot of weight there. Don't let her roll on to you or something.


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## TSOJOURNER

Well she's not up yet. The mud blasting rig doesn't seem to work as well as we figured it would. We did however get it to turn towards the marsh some more using a block and tackle system. Im working on plan B right now.


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## AllThumbs

That sucks man. I really hope she is afloat again soon.


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## Bene505

Sweet progress. Like David said, we're all cheering for you.


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## artbyjody

SVDistantStar said:


> Well she's not up yet. The mud blasting rig doesn't seem to work as well as we figured it would. We did however get it to turn towards the marsh some more using a block and tackle system. Im working on plan B right now.


Sorry about the whole fiasco - that truly sucks.

I am going to depart some wisdom from my 4X4 days because routinely we were out playing in mud and trying to un-lodge a mud stuck vehicle requires some additional considerations.

Mud blasting - will not work. The reason why is that mud is heavier than water and it will settle. Secondly when already in an over saturated condition all you are doing is allowing the vessel to sink further. This is bad for you because that list you have is just going to bury that rail even further.

You can not try to pull it out by trying to right it from the higher side. The reason is that the force of the mud and water now amassed against your keel creates a suction effect and further sinkens and sucks the boat down - ironically in the opposite direction you want to go.

My suggestion - find someone with a 30+ foot heavy displacement boat with a power winch. Position the boat behind and 30 degrees off of the angle it appears the boat came aground at. A combo usage of full power and the winch will allow you to slide backward and slice back through the already sliced up area the boat created when it went to its position.

Most importantly - lighten the boat up. Get rid of any water in the tanks, get rid of the mattresses, and anything else water soaken (remember water is like 6.45 lbs per gallon - and if your mattresses etc are soaked... )...And pump the boat dry. Before even attempting.

Post on Craigslist and SA as well... two power boats like a Carver 360 (they have huge twin engines)...if you use proper towing bridles - and you take in consideration my 30 degree off angle of incidence - you can overcome the suction effect that you are experiencing and in about 40 minutes free her...But, do not try any more of the blowing mud away as you are dealing with Carolina clay mud which has a tremendous friction co-efficient. The deep your boat falls in the harder it will be. You want to lift the boat up and out and back-wards at an off angle of where it went through...

Just my suggestion...take it for what it is - but having a stuck boat and a stuck 4X4 are par to the same because to get out its about the efforts of those pulling it out - not the object itself...

Good luck...


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## ecsimonson

Good luck and be safe getting her out of there. I keep having dreams of going to our boat and seeing a mast sticking out.


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## sailaway21

To follow up a bit on what Jody said...

You've got to strip that boat out of as much weight as possible. Your problem isn't so much water as it is lack of water...she really had to work herself to get where she's at and it's doubtful there's near enough water there to float her upright.

Cost is no doubt a factor and I'm sure inflatable airbags come dear. They'd be nice though.

What I'd recommend is the following. Get as much weight off her as possible and pump as much water out as you can, then seal all topside ingresses to the boat. Ideally, you'd fill below decks with inflated airbags but we've been through that...if you can afford it, do it. But seal all hatches and points of ingress as well as can be done. I'd then round up as many plastic 55 gallon drums as you can and make as large a raft as you can out of them. Then you'll need to fit a block and tackle through the center of your raft and attach that purchase to your keel. You may find it most effective to drill a hole right through the keel, near it's bottom, to make the attachment as you will not want it coming adrift. You may have one chance at this and the water depth is not going to let you reattach the purchase at that time.

At low tide you need to take as much of a strain as you can on your keel to raft purchase and then secure it. At the same time, secure more drums to the offshore side tight to gunwale. Hoprefully, when the tide comes in you'll then be able to refloat her and two her off. You may even find that you'll want to place weight on the mast head to immerse even more of the hull and thereby lift the keel more. You may have to wait until spring tide to do this, so as to get the maximum lift from the water.

Another wrinkle that is just a bit more complex but could be done if you have the right equipment and gear is to sink the drums on the keel side and then find a way to secure them to the keel, inflating them then while under water. Each drum would have to be fitted with a Schrader valve for inflation and a check valve for water exhaust.

Good luck, you're due for some.


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## dongreerps

When conventional thinking falis, it helps to step outside the box. I offer some suggestions in the spirit that even if none of them are practical they may stimulate someone to think of an original method that may work.

Early in WW II the Flying Tigers lost a plane in a river. Multiple attempts to raise her failed, and she was turned over to the Chinese. One stalk at a time they dove down, and placed bamboo stalks under the plane. Took several days and thousands of stalks, but the plane surfaced, and was eventually returned to service. 

We Americans always look for the quick solution, which seems not to be working here. It might be useful to think in terms of countless small flotation aids. If there is water in the cabin, could you replace the water with a thousand ping pong balls? 

How about diving into the flooded cabin with a big plastic bag and a can of foam, inflating the foam inside the bag, driving out the water?

Rather than trying to get the yacht upright, how about trying to float her out on her side. get a line around the keel/hull juncture, and around the bottom of the keel, and then start hooking flotation ballons to the lines. 

Mel Fischer hooks a chute with a 90 degree turn on the transum of his boats immediately behind the props, anchors over a wreck, and then turns on the engines. The downwash from the props soon washes away bottom sand and mud.

How about passing a web line around the bottom of the keel, and then using that as a tow line to "bump" her out gradually to deeper water?

If none of these make sense, perhaps they will at least break the circle thinking and allow an innovative approach.


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## sailingdog

You've been watching way too much Mythbusters... 


dongreerps said:


> When conventional thinking falis, it helps to step outside the box. I offer some suggestions in the spirit that even if none of them are practical they may stimulate someone to think of an original method that may work.
> 
> Early in WW II the Flying Tigers lost a plane in a river. Multiple attempts to raise her failed, and she was turned over to the Chinese. One stalk at a time they dove down, and placed bamboo stalks under the plane. Took several days and thousands of stalks, but the plane surfaced, and was eventually returned to service.
> 
> We Americans always look for the quick solution, which seems not to be working here. It might be useful to think in terms of countless small flotation aids. If there is water in the cabin, could you replace the water with a thousand ping pong balls?
> 
> How about diving into the flooded cabin with a big plastic bag and a can of foam, inflating the foam inside the bag, driving out the water?
> 
> Rather than trying to get the yacht upright, how about trying to float her out on her side. get a line around the keel/hull juncture, and around the bottom of the keel, and then start hooking flotation ballons to the lines.
> 
> Mel Fischer hooks a chute with a 90 degree turn on the transum of his boats immediately behind the props, anchors over a wreck, and then turns on the engines. The downwash from the props soon washes away bottom sand and mud.
> 
> How about passing a web line around the bottom of the keel, and then using that as a tow line to "bump" her out gradually to deeper water?
> 
> If none of these make sense, perhaps they will at least break the circle thinking and allow an innovative approach.


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## TSOJOURNER

I posted up my current plan in the other thread in Gear and Maintenance. 

Quick run down, stuff in cabin to displace water(air mattress, foam blocks, maybe even a keg or 2) 55 gallon drums attached to the low side at low tide for floatation at high tide and turn it around to face the marsh. 


I want to make a big note of one thing. There is NO oil, sewage or fuel spill. The boat has no motor, no fuel tank and the holding tank was empty. It was under going an in water refit that was on hold for a month or two. I repeat, there is NO oil or fuel spill.


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## SRsail

Thats a real drag man, best of luck on getting her out.


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## brianontheroad

*more good wishes :-/*

Good luck, sounds like you're doing a good job and it'll be loose soon I'm sure.....it'll be much easier to work on the refit at your place! Charleston's waterways just do not provide any holding....


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## justified

SVD First off my deepest sympathy and condolences to you.
Now my two cents.... What if you place a bridle from the starboard side for and aft over the cabin/cockpit then over the port rail and under the hull. then as you pull with the work boat it should help roll her up and out at the same time. you might also want to place a drum in the cockpit secured avter fillin with water the push the water out and fill with air to help float the stern and get as little hull touching the mud as possible....Ok maybe that was three cents.
lets know how its going
"Justified"


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## Bene505

After talking with him a couple hours ago, I have to report that he seems very level headed and had his wits about him. Not sure we'd all be so calm in a similar situation. We talked about his making an "A" frame and tying lines to the starboard cleats, pulling the boat upright SLOWLY to let the water drain out as you go, then waiting for the tide to come in. We talked about using multiple lines. This is an idea he had already thought of, and had talked over with a relative.

Some facts: He is using a come-along anchored with an anchor. The tide is 5 feet. The pictures at the beginning of this thread were taken at low tide. [Multiple A frames could be used, with multiple anchors and come-alongs.]

I worked up some graphics to show what we talked about. (Drawn with the bow toward you.)


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## bubb2

I saw a guy do the very thing you are recommending and snap the keel. This was in the soft mud of the Hudson River. Mud is not as forgiving as you my think. Just my 2 cents


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## Valiente

At least if there is a "best time" for such a thing to happen, it's when there is no fuel, engine or oil aboard.

Please keep us posting. Those of us who can't pull for you literally are pulling for you in spirit, because this is a rotten prospect for any sailor.


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## Bene505

I forgot to include the most important graphic in the series!


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## Capnblu

As a tool to help, thread an air hose fitting onto a 10' length of copper water pipe and blow air into the mud to help break the suction while attempting to refloat and empty the hull. I assume she will float at high tide. I see the hardest part being to get that rail above water, but that pump will do the trick. If you had a helper blowing air around the keel and hull every couple of feet, working back and forth, I think she will come unstuck smoothly.


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## Bene505

Capnblu said:


> As a tool to help, thread an air hose fitting onto a 10' length of copper water pipe and blow air into the mud to help break the suction while attempting to refloat and empty the hull. I assume she will float at high tide. I see the hardest part being to get that rail above water, but that pump will do the trick. If you had a helper blowing air around the keel and hull every couple of feet, working back and forth, I think she will come unstuck smoothly.


I made the same suggestion, only using water. (That's the hose and tube in the graphics.) Do you think that would work as well as air? He already has the water pump.


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## NCC320

Another thing to consider:

After one of the hurricanes passed a few years back, a Hunter 340 that had anchored out and drug in the storm came to rest against a bulkhead sitting on it's keel (upright in this case). Tow Boat US got the job to refloat him. They brought in a twin screw power cruiser about 32 ft. long. This boat anchored with a large anchor and begain to back against the anchor and rode. The prop action washed away the bottom soil, making a hole. Then gradually, and slowly over several days, the boat just kept backing against the anchor and slowly fed out more rode. Consequently, the boat washed a channel. Eventually the channel was cut till it reached the stranded boat. Here, the power boat continued to do the same thing up close to the sailboat beam, but here, the power boat would maneuver port or starboard so that the wash was under the entire boat. Eventually, a hole was washed out under the boat and it settled into the hole/channel and was towed out with no additional damage due to the salvage operation. This was in NC.

A word of caution though, a NC ferry boat captain used more or less the same idea on the outer banks to cut a channel (unauthorized) to shore for a proposed school bus boat (the concept was caught in middle of a controversy with the environmental people in this case, and the ferry boat people saw a way to cut through all the bull and to get the job done). When all the rocks hit the ground, the head of the state ferry service, the captain, and several others lost their jobs, were fined, and I think one may have even gotten a jail sentence.

Not sure why it was ok for Tow Boat US but not for the ferry service, but it could have been the nature of the bottom was protected in one case but not in the other.

Good luck.


----------



## NCC320

Another idea which you might consider:

Locate and rent some inflatable bladders. I don't know where to get these, but marina operators who have experienced sunken boats before, probably could tell you where. Slip the bladders uninflated under the ends of the boat. The bigger and the more you have, the better it will be. Now, turn your attention to the boat. Seal the hatches as best you can and pump as much water out as you can - wedge rags, foam strips, use underwater putty, whatever combination works. Keep a pump going here because you aren't going to be able to seal it completely, but you want to get as much of the water inside out so you don't try to pick up the water inside the boat, plus eliminating water inside will help floatation forces. Secure the mast head down with an anchor and line to winch to help keep the keel from trying to dig into the mud. Now, start inflating the bladders. You want the bladders full at high tide. Hopefully she'll come off the bottom. (You could also consider that if somehow there was a hole or dirt was washed away from bottom partially, it would help break the suction as the bladders were filled). Have some sort of power boat standing by to tow you off once the suction breaks. You will have to gradually feed slack to anchor line to mast head, and maybe reposition the anchor periodically, but keep the boat heeled way over so that keel is not back in the mud. Bladders should be tied to boat so they don't slip out of place.

If you can't find bladders, then use some rope (polypropylene is cheap and might be adequate for this application to supplement nylon lines you have) and plastic drums. Tie the lines around the drums, fill them to sink so lines can be tight under the boat, then pump the water out of the drums (the drums and line harnesses will have to be tied securely and to the boat, otherwise, they are going to pop out of place). You'll have to have air ingress to the drums as you take the water out, so this will mean rigging fittings and hoses to the drums -- garden hoses and fittings from HD or Lowes. In filling bladders or drums, rotate the filling process around to fill all gradually so forces are evenly distributed.

I had a Navy instructor who was on a LST in Korea that was on the mudflats after a landing when extreme tides went out, and he said that the suction was so strong on the ship, that when the tide came in, the water came almost up to deck level before the forces broke the ship loose. You are likely to have the same thing here, and it's going to take a lot of lifting force to break that suction with the mud. Again, good luck.


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## Giulietta

Wow, SV...I am sorry about that..really..

Alex


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## scottyt

i still think plumber putty would stop the inflow of water. its sticks just fine to wet stuff, does not really harden so clean up should be easy. seal up everything under water then pump out thru the roof hatch. it might only take a few buckets of the stuff

Oatey at Lowe's: 14 oz. Plumber's Putty


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## tommays

I am sure someone can confirm but i believe a 55 gallon drum will float about 400 pounds


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## Joel73

I wish i had some advice for you and hate to see her like that. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## AdamLein

tommays: 55 gallons of water weighs over 450 lb, at 8.3 lb/gal.


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## jrd22

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble lifting her. In my former business we had to plug underground pipes to keep water out to work in them, etc. We rented inflatable plugs, they come in lot's of different sizes (4"- 48"+) and they might be useful for what you are trying. Don't know the name of anyone in your area, but a search for pipe plugs, or dewatering, or construction services might turn up something. The name of the place we used in Seattle area was Advanced Underground, maybe they could direct you to someone near you. They aren't too expensive to rent, but not really cheap either. Best of luck to you.


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## Whissell

The difference between and adventure and a disaster is all in how you view it....keep your chin up !

oldsailor


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## CrazyRu

Airbags are used for shipping. Cheap, disposable ones. Every warehouse or supply store should have them - it is sealed paper/plastic bag with a valve.
They used for securing a load in trailer or conteiner.


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## Flybyknight

I do not see any way of getting that boat into deep water except by having a BIG power boat lashed up tight against the sail boat and the back wash of the twin screws hosing a path to freedom.
IMHO

Dick


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## sailingfool

This resting place is starting to look more and more permanent. A nice boat is facing a sad fate.

I ask whether anyone knows if the state is likely to intervene here. I recall from a thread about a similar situation involving the loss of a Pearson Flyer on the Maine shoreline there were comments that the state would go after the owner for the cost of removal. What rules apply here, do they change much by state, or by shoreline versus inland?


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## NCC320

It is unlikely that the boat can be abandoned (in event that it comes to this). The state environmental people are likely to investigate the boat, have it removed, and seek out the owner so he can pay the bill and probably a fine. Here, there was a boat that was anchored out in the river, and was deemed by the authorities to be a hazard after it drug in a storm and endangered other boats and a bridge. Sea Tow was called in and now there is a $3K+ plus bill awaiting the owner.

Also, the quicker the owner gets this boat up, the better the chance he has of salvaging it. The longer it stays in the water, the more difficult and expensive it's going to be to clean it up. This may well be one of those situations, where rather than messing around to try to do the salvage on one's own, it would make more sense to get (and pay) for someone commercially (who has the correct salvage equipment and know how) to get the job done. It's unfortunate, by this is going to cost the owner either way. I assume there is no insurance on the boat, otherwise, the owner would have called the insurance company and they would already would have placed something in motion.

The owner can't walk away and in the end he is going to have to either get the boat up on his own or pay for someone else to do it. Sorry.


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## MSter

I initially posted this is a related thread found in the Gear and Maint forum. It seems more appropriate to repost in this forum/thread. Sorry for the repost but I think these are valid questions...

In situations like this, are there any concerns with salvage rights or piracy with someone swooping and and taking her right from underneath you? I can only assume you must be very carefull as to who you involve to raise her as well as how......Can something as simple as receiving a line from another boat call into question salvage ownership?


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## PalmettoSailor

sailingfool said:


> This resting place is starting to look more and more permanent. A nice boat is facing a sad fate.
> 
> I ask whether anyone knows if the state is likely to intervene here. I recall from a thread about a similar situation involving the loss of a Pearson Flyer on the Maine shoreline there were comments that the state would go after the owner for the cost of removal. What rules apply here, do they change much by state, or by shoreline versus inland?


Apparently SC lacks the marine resources to perfom that kind of enforcement even if they have laws like you suggest.

I was speaking to a charter Captain about a 40+ foot sailboat aground right in Georgetown, SC visable from the town docks. He told me someone abandoned the boat at anchor a year or more previously and it had at one point dragged down on some other anchored boats during a storm. The locals drug it back where it was, and reanchored it, but it broke free during a hurricane and grounded itself and there it sat.

I too would have thought the State would take action to remove such vessels and try to recoup costs from the owner but apparently not. Its probably a budget issue as there would be a lot of cost both in removing the vessel and disposing of it and in tracking down the owner and there is no guarantee they could recover the costs. It could be a case of slelective enforcement though if you're a State resident and they can track you down without much effort.


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## sailhog

You guys need to stick your I-told-you-so wanker talk in a pipe and smoke it. There's a lot of mud here in the low country. Boats get stuck all the time, and it's oftentimes a big pita to get them out. You'll probably be shocked to learn that local officials here are not retarded. I repeat: they are not retarded. They see this kind of thing every now and then and don't flip their wig as certain folks on this forum are inclined to do. Either offer a hand, encouragement, some advice... or mind your tongue.


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## bluwateronly

I hope you get through this. I can fully understand your feelings. I would probley be in the same sit if it were me, I don't have 5 grand in liquid to get the job done either. You need to understand that alot of guys and gals here have that kind of cash and really are not in the "same boat" as us sailors on a low budget. Keep trying everything you can to not lose your boat and I pray it works. We all here are on your side and wish you the best, just some don't come off that way, they mean well. Hang in there brother.


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## mccary

Have you contacted the insurance company? It seems to me the longer this goes on the closer it gets to a total loss claim. Perhaps they might be willing to step in to save themselves a buck or two...


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## KeelHaulin

sailingfool said:


> This resting place is starting to look more and more permanent. A nice boat is facing a sad fate.


Not so! If you look carefully at the pictures; two things come to mind. One is that at low tide; if the boat were floating she would be in about 3' of water and not nearly so laid over. If 5' of tide comes in daily; that means the boat would be sitting in about 7' of water and could easily be pulled free. All that needs to happen is the hull to get pumped out.

In addition; another careful look at the photos has me thinking that if the stern line is still taught; the stern is actually being pulled under by it. If he cuts the stern rhode it's possible that the bow will tip back down and the cockpit coaming will rise back up out of the water so it can more easily be pumped out.

I posted these comments in the thread on Gear/Maint but there was no reply.



MSter said:


> In situations like this, are there any concerns with salvage rights or piracy with someone swooping and and taking her right from underneath you?


Yes; there is. I'm not sure but once the boat is considered "abandoned" salvage rights can be claimed by the first person to recover it. I don't know what the criteria are for "abandonment" so I suggested to the owner that he set up camp on the shore to protect it from salvors and/or looters since it is close to shore and visible from a highway bridge. I was not trying to make him feel bad or anger him about it; it's just a suggestion to help him protect HIS boat from someone wishing to take advantage of his situation or a salvor thinking the boat was left there as a total loss. A laminated note taped to the hull claiming it as "his with all salvage rights" might also be a good idea to protect it from other salvors.


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## sailingfool

KeelHaulin said:


> ....
> 
> Yes; there is. I'm not sure but once the boat is considered "abandoned" salvage rights can be claimed by the first person to recover it. I don't know what the criteria are for "abandonment" so I suggested to the owner that he set up camp on the shore to protect it from salvors and/or looters since it is close to shore and visible from a highway bridge. I was not trying to make him feel bad or anger him about it; it's just a suggestion to help him protect HIS boat from someone wishing to take advantage of his situation or a salvor thinking the boat was left there as a total loss. A laminated note taped to the hull claiming it as "his with all salvage rights" might also be a good idea to protect it from other salvors.


You guys are delusional to think there is any boat value left in this situation - I made a post prior to this event that a boat left alone on anchor will result in either a major recovery bill or a total loss - I think the biggest concern here is to see that one doesn't suffer both of these consequences.


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## sailingdog

Considering that the OP is trying to do this on a very low-budget, I'd guess that there is no insurance involved.


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## BUSHORE

I'm on your side and wish you the best.

JP


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## Whissell

Good Morning Gentlemen:

I'd have to say, that if she were mine, I would somehow be making it very clear that she hasn't been abandoned and that the intent is to recover her, to avoid someone else claiming salvage rights. I'd be keeping a diary of daily attempts to recover her, whom I spoke to, whom I worked with etc...I'd have it clearly posted on her that she is not up for grabs in any fashion. 

Oldsailor


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## NCC320

Sailhog...

"you guys need to stick your I told you so wanker..."

You seem a bit bitter. Just what provokes such a entry as above? I noticed that while you posted twice on this thread, you didn't offer any real suggestions as to how to get the boat refloated, but you had no trouble trashing others' comments, including those who suggested that in the end the boat will have to be moved. The various posts, some with workable ideas and some that won't work, have been offered in a compasionate and helpful manner. And I don't see anyone except you making any remarks about your officials..wow.


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## Whissell

NCC320
Sir: Pull in you mainsail abit !

Not bitter at all. Entry was not an attack, it was ment as advice for covering his ____. Didn't offer any suggestions as don't know the laws of your country, but having been involved in a battle over a vessell, a daily diary was an invaluable tool when accounts needed to be reviewed. I'm not in anyway suggesting the vessel has to be moved, nor did I trash someone elses comments. My heart goes out to the gent who's vessel is in trouble. I've been sailing for 30yrs and would be the first to help a fellow sailor in any situation, including you should the need arrise. Is that not what this is all about, assisting others ? 

Oldsailor


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## NCC320

Whissell,

My previous post was not aimed at you...in fact, I agree with you as well as with a good many of the other posts here. My post was really aimed at Sailhog's last post.

Still, I'll do as you suggest and pull in the mainsail abit. Good sailing and I hope the owner of the grounded boat is successful in salvaging it.


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## SRsail

Man I was sure hoping that when I got back to this thread, I'm not on line much, that I would be reading some good news. I am really sorry to see you or anyone esle have to go thru this. I understand that money is a problem for you right now, but I think your going to have to get your hands on some, some how. The only thing I can think to do is get a small barge with a small crane and lift it while you pump out the water. Sorry I know thats not what you want to hear, and not much help if you cant get a hold of the money. Best of luck to ya, if I was any where near there I would try and lend a hand to help do what ever, even if it was just moral support.


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## KeelHaulin

Well all I can say is that regardless of if it is "worth" it to the owner to raise his sunken boat; it is the responsible thing to do and may in the long run save him from a wage garnishment for wreck removal or environmental fines. The best I can offer him is advice and moral support since I am on the west coast; regardless of what I think about the overall situation.

I have seen completely sunken boats in salt water re-floated and repaired. I have seen old tired boats completely gutted and restored to better than new, so if the owner wishes to restore this boat to it's former glory I see no reason why it can't be done. It's just a matter of money, and sweat equity.


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## sailortjk1

any updates from Distant Star?
We are all pulling for ya buddy.


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## TSOJOURNER

Ive just been staying off sailnet for the last week or so. I got the boat turned some more, but nothing else. Its been warm all weekend and the ******** have been out in full force, so i havent done anything to it this weekend. Im going out tomorrow at low tide and attach my 7 55 gallon drums to it how ever i can and then see what happens. If i can ever get it turned around, i can pump her. 

We are lined up to be hauled out once shes floating again. 

As far as salvage rights goes, ive got all my info posted on the boat along with a notice that its not abandoned. The local DNR knows me and they are in that area all the time, so if they see any boats other than my old jonboat tied up, they will question things. 

She will come back up somehow, im not leaving her out there to die. I already lost one boat before, and thats not going to happen again.


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## JohnRPollard

Hang in there. You'll get her back.


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## Bene505

Everyone is rooting for you. Good luck with it.


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## scottyt

okay as far as "attaching" the barrels. i would thread a rope under the hull tied like an inverted Y to each barrel ( like an anchor bridle on a cat ) and use a trucker hitch to tie it to the toe rail on the high side. this will allow you to pull them further down, using the hitch like a come along as the boat rises. i would also get some cheap ratchet straps from harbor freight and run them around the hull and the drums, you can extend them with old sheets and halyards to lock them in place. 
the idea being the inverted y will stop them from floating up to the low toe rail, and when the boat starts lifting you can pull them down more. then use the ratchet straps to make sure they dont slip off the front or the back.
if there is any wave action there you can use it to, as she starts lifting, if the waves are bouncing the hull/barrels you should be able to get one at a time a little deeper as she bounces

once she is off and floating you can tell sailing fool to


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## RanAweigh

We are all pulling for you. Keep at it.


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## KeelHaulin

SVDistantStar said:


> Im going out tomorrow at low tide and attach my 7 55 gallon drums to it how ever i can and then see what happens. If i can ever get it turned around, i can pump her.


If you can; rig the drums so that you can sink and then re-float them. The key to getting them to help lift the boat is to force them to displace as much water as possible. If you tie them on while floating alongside the boat you might not get enough displacement to help lift the hull.

To rig them to sink and re-float you would need to run a hose in from the lower port that can allow you to pump water out; and a vent line on the upper port to allow air to flow in. If the drums begin to crush in from the loading you may need to use compressed air to pressurize the air inside the drums.


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## MorganPaul

> She will come back up somehow, im not leaving her out there to die. I already lost one boat before, and thats not going to happen again.


Good luck man.
As others have said. Get the drums as deep as possible.
Get the boat as light as possible. Take off boom, doors anything to get her more buoyant.


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## djodenda

We're still on your side and cheering you on!

David


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## mgmhead

it is my hope that the next time I read this thread there will be wondreful news that Distant Star is afloat. Good luck and best wishes to you...MGM


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## KeelHaulin

MorganPaul said:


> Get the boat as light as possible. Take off boom, doors anything to get her more buoyant.


I think his troubles are more associated with the volume of water inside her. The doors and boom are negligible weight compared to the mass of the hull, keel, and water that is currently inside. As soon as he gets enough buoyant force with the drums to raise the stern the hull should be pumped out (removing the tons of water that will become trapped inside). Getting the water out will make all the difference.


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## NCC320

SVDistantStar,

Give it a try, but I don't think 7 drums will be enough to do the job. Someone indicated that a 55 gal drum of water is about 450 lbs. So 7 would give at a maximum 3150 lbs. of bouyant force. Your boat weighs about ~16,000 lbs. not counting the water inside. I think you are going to have to get the cabin sealed off and get that water pumped out. The original pictures seemed to be at low tide and it's hard to tell how much bouyancy you could create at high tide with the boat pumped out. Still give it a try. You might still have to keep her healed over even then to keep the keel out of the mud, as it looks like the winds drove her pretty far up on the shore.

We had another area boat that drug in a storm and went aground on its side like yours on a sand bottom. One of the small contractors that installs small bulkheads and piers got that one off by dragging it. They had a barge with spuds (anchoring poles) and a backhoe. It didn't take too long. At least contact a couple of those types of contractors to see what they would charge. It might not be as much as you expect and they would get the job done quickly...no harm in asking. If you do it with the contractors, make sure you have in writing exactly what it's going to cost you so there won't be any surprises.

Good luck.


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## KeelHaulin

Yes; ~3k lbs of bouyancy if the drums are fully submerged and air filled. The problem is getting them positioned and then emptied of water. 3k lbs of lifting force might be enough to get the stern section and cockpit coaming above the level of the water, which would then allow the hull to be pumped out. Once up and floating it would then just be a matter of dragging her off of the shore; and I agree that adding weight to the mast to induce heel might be a way of "lifting" the keel off the mud.


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## Capnblu

Wouldn't it be easy to screw plywood over the cockpit coaming, and pump out the water? If your boat was holed, wouldn't you try to stop the water from flooding back in before attempting to empty the water? That pump shown in the tender should do the trick. Break the suction of the mud with AIR. Adding water to mud, makes better mud. ever get you boot stuck in real mud? Can't get it out till what happens? (till ya get air in the area of suction) once she is floating, and you need to move into deeper water, PUMP AIR around the keel into the mud and winch yourself into deeper water. I hope this advice has been rendered useless already.


----------



## KeelHaulin

Capnblu said:


> Wouldn't it be easy to screw plywood over the cockpit coaming, and pump out the water? If your boat was holed, wouldn't you try to stop the water from flooding back in before attempting to empty the water?


Yes; I fully agree. Screwing a sheet of plywood across the cockpit is a great idea. Seems to me that most of the problem is due to the flooding/sunken state; not that she is in the shallows. 3ft at low tide + 5ft at high tide is 8ft of water that would be beneath the boat if she were buoyant.


----------



## twisty2

Damn I was hoping to com back to this thread and read some good news...


----------



## BUSHORE

Capnblu you right!

It's time for this next step, I'm to far away to help you physicaly but still with you.

Good luck!


----------



## sailingdog

Sorry Twisty, no update from either the boat owner or the guy helping out...


----------



## twisty2

sailingdog said:


> Sorry Twisty, no update from either the boat owner or the guy helping out...


Nope, but I saw a great vid using the barrel method the other day, I just wish I could remember where so I could post it. It worked pretty well after they got them positioned right.


----------



## lgherb

SVDistantStar,

I wanted to extend a note of support during this frustrating time for you. I have lurked on this thread from its start and pray that you are not giving up hope. Keep visioning that your vessel will soon be free of water in your cabin and once again buoyant. The sea may be laughing now, but keep the faith that the Distant Star will defy her once again.


----------



## Trilogy77

I guess in this case no news is not good news.


----------



## Bene505

I just called him and left a message. I'll let you know if I hear anything.


----------



## SimonV

Bump?????????


----------



## lbdavis

Distant Star,

Tell us you're too busy remodeling her to give us an update....


----------



## Faster

..still waiting for good news......


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## AlanBrown

Curiouser and curiouser.......

Wonder if this boat is one of the abandoned ones we've been reading about lately?


----------



## Capnblu

Maybe they are still trying to thin the mud, with water.


----------



## sailortjk1

Bump!

Distant Star, Distant Star;
This is Sailnet, come in please.

Anybody out there?

Does anybody have any news they can report?


----------



## sailingdog

Does anyone live near where his boat was that can run down and see if it is gone or still stuck???


----------



## Bene505

I left him another message on his cell phone, told him we are all pulling for him (or something like that).


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## WheresTheBrakes

It's still there.. 
I haven't been on Sailnet recently, but the rescue didn't go as planned..
We didn't have enough tide to try everyones ideas.. 
IMHO, although there was a weak STBD chainplate, we should have tried to use the mast as leverage.. but that hardly matters now..

She's finished..I believe stuck for good, our water is really dark colored because of all of the floating sediment from the big tidal shifts.. each tide probably deposits 5gals of mud inside the boat.. so it's not filled with water anymore, it's pluff mud..

On a more positive note, I've started to be alot more involved with CharlestonWaterkeeper.org and have been involved with the recent removal of 6 boats from Folly Beach, Boat Removal - a set on Flickr they used a hell of alot of brute force !!!
I also set up goodjujuart.com, to attempt to find private donors to purchase fine art photos to remove sunken boats in the creeks they frequent.. we'll see what happens.. ulitmately the boat owner is responsible for keeping the boat floating or out of the water, same as you have to feed a pet.

If you want to know where SVDistantStar is, go to Goodjujuart.com and click the find a dead boat link, and it's #2 Huge Sailboat.. the ones we pulled out were on the backside of Folly..


----------



## sailingdog

Damn... thanks for the update.


----------



## Boasun

When I was in Nam a few decades ago, I would pull PBRs off the beach with my boat by wrapping the tow line all the way around the PBR. The first time I did this we pulled the cleat completely off...


----------



## JohnRPollard

Yes, that's a serious bummer. Wish things had turned out differently. 

Don't be hard on yourself, S/V DistantStar. Sounds like you did everything you could to get her off the bank. 

Is there a new plan for the riverkeepers to remove her with their crane/barge?


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## Faster

Sad news..... our thoughts go to Distant Star.


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## RanAweigh

Faster said:


> Sad news..... our thoughts go to Distant Star.


Echo that sentiment.


----------



## sailortjk1

So sorry to hear that.


----------



## Bene505

Is all hope lost then? Or is he waiting for high tides come spring?

Seriously,do anyone know the difference in damage between 1 month and 6 months, if he gets it out? The bulkheads, settee and other wood parts already had to be replaced at 1 month, right? The fiberglass doesn't care that much whether it's 1 month of 6 months, right?


----------



## sailingfool

Someone who leaves his boat hanging on anchor for months at end, unattended, is not exactly a victim of bad luck when the boat is lost.

EDIT: leaving the hulk to settle, however, may be bad luck for some other boater, down the line.


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## brianontheroad

as someone who has met distant star and is aware of the situation from following this forum I can say sailingfool lives up to his name, the boat was minutes away from distant stars house specifically so he could check on it often ...he just fell victim to an unfortunate circumstance. Charleston's waterways provide poor anchorages, boats pull anchor here easily, I almost lost my boat in similar circumstances but was lucky that it drifted to a marina and the staff tied it up for me...I had adequate ground tackle but 40 + knots and strong opposing tide with a muddy bottom means tough holding. This was not negligence, just a case of bad luck ..... distant star was working hard on fixing up his boat on a regular basis, had lived aboard it on anchor for years previously but was now living on land with his family close by so to sailingfool -- to you I extend a middle finger in salute

my condolences distantstar.......no one wants to lose their boat, maybe the water keepers can help? cyrus who runs it is a good guy, maybe when they do their next pull they can help you get your hull back at least


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## chef2sail

So sorry to see this


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## RanAweigh

Sailingfool - Your comment was hurtful and most unnecessary.


----------



## chall03

sailingfool said:


> Someone who leaves his boat hanging on anchor for months at end, unattended, is not exactly a victim of bad luck when the boat is lost.


IVE EDITED SUBSTANTIALLY MY ORIGINAL RESPONSE BELOW AS I WAS HEATED AND UNFAIR IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION, SORRY ITS BEEN A BAD DAY HERE AS WELL.

HOWEVER I WOULD STILL LIKE TO SAY

Sailingfool, it looks like you have been around here for a while and have posted quite a bit, I normally reserve some respect for guys like that.

I would ask however that you review and edit your above comments, in the context of this thread they are somewhat callous.


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## chall03

SD, I've edited that and alot else out, I was over the top.


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## sailingdog

Good enough... I understand SF's point of view... and he's a pretty good egg in general...


chall03 said:


> SD, I've edited that and alot else out, I was over the top.


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## MorganPaul

Did this guy ever get his boat free from the mud?


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## chall03

Basically no.


----------



## TSOJOURNER

*sucks*

yes, sorry to see that happen to your boat. I am a little confused how that happened. Was it because the tide went out farther than you thought it was going to go out?

Troy


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## WheresTheBrakes

the damn thing is now lying on it's side, 55ft of mast and shrouds about 6"
under the water at mid tide, in a creek that's popular with waterskiiers and tubers.. someone's going to get killed..I called DNR about it yesterday, there's not much else I can do..


----------



## modul8

Work Barge 55 x 18ft
spud barge for 2500 bucks in wilmington NC


----------



## KeelHaulin

WheresTheBrakes said:


> the damn thing is now lying on it's side, 55ft of mast and shrouds about 6"
> under the water at mid tide, in a creek that's popular with waterskiiers and tubers.. someone's going to get killed..I called DNR about it yesterday, there's not much else I can do..


That's a shame. I thought the owner was gung-ho about being responsible and salvaging the boat. Apparently not by the looks of things 

You might call DNR and reference this thread on sailnet so they can track down the owner and put him on a payment plan for the wreck removal. Also; if you have a small boat and a few extra bucks it would be a good idea to put some reflective tape on a red ball bouy (or any old fender) and tie it to the end of the mast. That might help warn other boaters to steer clear of the wreck. I agree that with mast/shrouds submerged it is a dangerous hazard and someone could very easily get hurt or worse if they ran over the mast. You have no obligation to do this; it's just a suggestion.


----------



## MorganPaul

> [That's a shame. I thought the owner was gung-ho about being responsible and salvaging the boat. Apparently not by the looks of things
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> I think he gave up on it early in the game.
Click to expand...


----------



## KeelHaulin

doghouseman said:


> I am a little confused how that happened. Was it because the tide went out farther than you thought it was going to go out?


The owner was "mooring" his boat on bow/stern anchor; and a wind/storm blew the boat from the side over to the shore. A bow/stern anchor arrangement is only safe when the wind is blowing parallel to the boat because a force from the side puts a huge amount of tension on the anchor rhodes; causing the anchors to drag.

So the wind caused the anchors to drag, the boat was pushed over into shallow water and when the tide went out the tension on the anchor rhode pulled the boat over so it was careened the wrong direction. When the tide returned it filled the hull rather than re-floating because it was lying at nearly 90 deg.


----------



## FishmanTx

Well, looks like another attempt at resurrection may take place this Saturday. Feral Cement from the cruiser forum is looking to raise the dead.


----------



## FishmanTx

Well, looks like another attempt at resurrection may take place this Saturday. Feral Cement from the cruiser forum is looking to raise the dead.

Same Ol' - I Want a Big, Cheap Boat - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


----------



## WheresTheBrakes

I talked to the Leiutenant at DNR and he said they were afraid to remove it in case the owner sued them .. which I think is crazy.. 

We did manage to get a hazard buoy put on it though ! I offered to do it for them, but they did it in the end.


----------



## EpicAdventure

Sad story continues.  

Any pics of it now?


----------



## scottyt

just for info, if the boat could be sealed up pretty well you could use a peri jet to dewater and desludge the boat thru a port. i dont know if these can be rented but i am sure you could find one.

i still think plumbers putty could seal the boat well enough. its 7 bucks here for 5 lbs, so the cost would be cheap and it would work under water


----------



## AllThumbs

I REALY hope she is raised and sails again...


----------



## SEMIJim

Looks like s/v Distant Star's owner has given up, and is giving her away to whomever can get her out of there: Free 36' sailboat (Stono River) (Charleston Craig's List)

So, as posted by FishmanTX, somebody's going to give it a go.

Here's wishing Feral Cement, his friends, and Distant Star luck!

While I'm at it: Will those of you who are doing so *please* stop referring to this boat as "it?" She's a "she," not an "it." A lady in distress. And y'all call yourselves sailors? 

Jim


----------



## Maine Sail

*Go Easy*

*Go easy*

Hey guys go easy on SailingFool. SVDistantStar knew he needed a proper mooring and discussed it on this forum before the sinking. The sad reality is that he never did build or buy his permanent mooring before the unfortunate sinking even though he knew he really needed one. He knew he was at risk and chose to take the risk, still sucks though.

Moorings are intended for long term moorage under all conditions anchors are generally designed, especially of the size and type SV was using, for short term use.

While SV did not have insurance many insurance companies will not insure boats left on anchors unattended for extended periods of time if there is a failure or dragging. Mine specifically requires a permanent mooring that is on line with local regs and to meet size and type requirements.

Perhaps SailingFool edited his post and it now reads less offensive but the reality is that SVDistantStar knew he needed a real mooring, came here and asked about it, and still did not get one before he had the unfortunate dragging. Anchors are not moorings and that is what I think SF's general gist is.

*SVDistantStar Mooring Thread (LINK)*


----------



## chall03

Yeah.

I guess the whole damn thing is just sad....From what I remember the original owner was a young guy who had some big dreams for this great looking boat.

You and SF are right in what you say, there is no mistake here, the owner's judgement calls combined with a good dose of bad luck led to this situation....I was just suggesting before that in the context of this thread it might of been like reminding your mate of the road rules after he totalled his Porsche by failing to give way..... 

It surprises me that it has taken this long to get someone to put up a hazard buoy, shouldn't the owner of under COLREGS all this time had up 3 black balls? ( Vessel NUC, at anchor) and lights if appropriate?


----------



## miatapaul

Truly is sad. I am looking for a boat in that range. Wish I nearer. Would lashing a few inflatable dinghies under it (un-inflated) and filling them? Just hoping it may help someone in the same situation. Once it is up, someone is going to have a lot of work to get it back on the water for sure.

I have to agree that the owner should be responsible to get it out of the water, and now that he seems to have given up it is OK to bash him, but when he was working on getting out of the water, that was just plain rude and uncalled for, akin to laughing at someone after they fell down.


----------



## lbdavis

I wish those guys all the luck in the world. They may need it. Here are some photos that were posted by a CF member here.

Sorry if I'm breaking rules here, Mods.


----------



## snider

*Winches*

Looks like somebody took the winches, those things were HUGE!!! Surprised nobody got that grill, those things are expensive!


----------



## sailingdog

winches are far more costly than any grill. A high-end BBQ grill might be $400.... a ST40 Lewmar winch is easily twice that.


snider said:


> Looks like somebody took the winches, those things were HUGE!!! Surprised nobody got that grill, those things are expensive!


----------



## MorganPaul

He just gave up on the dirty *****.

Same Ol' - I Want a Big, Cheap Boat - Page 4 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


----------



## MorganPaul

What a loss.


----------



## SEMIJim

MorganPaul said:


> He just gave up on the dirty *****.


I, for one, find this comment *infinitely* more offensive than the negative comments to the OP about his delinquency :hothead This poor boat ended-up as she did through no fault of her own 

Jim


----------



## CharlieCobra

No doubt..., crappy attempt at humor.


----------



## AllThumbs

Sad. I was hoping for good news. On the other hand, I doubt it can be salvaged by anyone for less than it's worth. Especially since it seems to be stripped of some of the more valuable parts. So sad. I feel really bad for the OP.

Eric


----------



## camaraderie

This boat is the OP's responsibility. This is his fault and he should be MADE to pay for the removal of the boat from the waterway as it is his negligence that put it on the hard and his continued negligence that has let it get this bad. 
THIS is what gives boaters a bad rap when the landlubbers vote on anchoring restrictions.


----------



## PalmettoSailor

I think its hilarious that guys think their still gonna go down there with jon boat and a beach ball and refoat a 15 thousand pound boat filled with Lord only knows how many pounds of pluff mud and water after months and months on the bottom. They couldn't lift the boat on the cheap days after it sank, and it sure hasn't gotten any easier. That thing is coming out there one of two ways, a crane barge or chainsawed into pieces. Sad, but the truth is I don't care anymore which it is, so long as its removed from the waters of my home state.


----------



## miatapaul

Makes me want to cry to see all that mud on such a beautiful lady. Perhaps it hurts more because I am trying to find my own mistress.

Paul, please call my wife a *****, but not a beautiful boat defenseless sailboat, perhaps a power boat if you have to.

By the way i am divorced so I call her that all the time!


----------



## sailingdog

I wish anyone trying to refloat her luck, but doubt their chances of success.


----------



## MorganPaul

SEMIJim said:


> I, for one, find this comment *infinitely* more offensive than the negative comments to the OP about his delinquency :hothead This poor boat ended-up as she did through no fault of her own
> 
> Jim


I do apologize for referring to her that way. I cracked one to many cans of cheap beer yesterday.
I looked at the pictures again this morning and was reminded how sad this truly is. She is still a beautiful boat under all of the mud.

Maybe by some miracle she can still be saved.

Paul


----------



## SEMIJim

MorganPaul said:


> I do apologize for referring to her that way.


Apology accepted, and thanks! 



MorganPaul said:


> I looked at the pictures again this morning and was reminded how sad this truly is.


We see derelict boats of all kinds around here all of the time. I recall a little day-sailer that was in the storage yard where our club stores cradles and jack stands in summertime. Wondered if anybody still cared about her. Next spring when we were storing again, whatever'd had been holding her propped-up on starboard had failed, and there she was: Just laying on her side on the ground . At that point I wished we didn't already have a sailboat, so I could rescue her.

I hate seeing boats treated badly--sail or power.



MorganPaul said:


> She is still a beautiful boat under all of the mud.


Perhaps because the first boat upon which I sailed was a Pearson (and a damn fine time we had, too): I have an affinity for them. Were I to hit the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably pay people really big bucks to refit and improve Abracadabra, rather than buy a new boat.



MorganPaul said:


> Maybe by some miracle she can still be saved.


That would be a terrific ending to this saga, but I must admit the situation doesn't look very promising 

Jim


----------



## sailingdog

SEMIJim said:


> Were I to hit the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably pay people really big bucks to refit and improve Abracadabra, rather than buy a new boat...


I think this is more true for many sailors than would be willing to admit it. While many of us dream of hitting the jackpot and the lavish yacht we'd buy with it... *most of us really don't want or need much more than the boat we already own and love.
*
Personally, if I hit MegaMillions or the Lotto, I wouldn't be looking for a different boat, but I'd be using the money as a cruising kitty and heading south this November.


----------



## thinwater

*Ideas, a little hope, and a lot of luck*

People --

I'm the guy trying to help Mark raise SVDS. The new pics from Wheresthebrakes showed her much lower in the water than Mark's pics, so the idea of pumping and lifting the low side to right her on the rising tide was abandoned. We are now looking at stuffing some REALLY BIG floats in the v-berth, main salon, and under the cockpit/lazarette area to float her at high tide. We have enough floatation to lift the boat, but there's no way to know how much mud, sand, and silt has found its way inside. Any guesses?

Better yet, any ideas on how to remove at least some of the mud while she's 2/3's under water at low tide? I have a diver, but we cannot go IN the salon under water. We can, however, reach in from the cockpit - will a trash pump pull enough mud with the water to make a difference? Turned around, will a 200 GPM pump stir up the mud sufficiently to suck it back out? Maybe two pumps, one going in, one going out? I figure we'll have about 2 - 3 hours of "clean-out" time before we have to stuff the bag inside and pump it up.

I am open to offers of help, whether labor, a work boat, a tow boat, a pump, another pump, and/or discounted dockage for 45 days when we float her. Everyone has been supportive of the effort to save her and to solve the problem and danger of this situation, so if you are close enough to assist, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks,

John


----------



## KeelHaulin

One thing I should mention is that you first need to secure the mast so it won't fall over as the boat rights. In reading a prior post over on CF it said the port shroud and spreader was removed so you don't have anything to hold the mast on that side. At minimum you would want a couple of halyards to hold that side; be sure and check that the headstay and backstay are still on it.

I can't tell you how much mud is in there or what it would take to get the mud out. If you put a pump in to stir it up you might just displace the mud to more remote locations where the flow is stagnant. It would probably be best if you could suck the mud out without stirring it up.

I think you will need a combination of floatation bags and water pump(s) to re-float her at this point. Looks like she has sunk into the mud quite a bit also; and the suction from the mud against the hull will be another issue. The boat may be pumped dry inside and it still could remain stuck to the bottom. You might need to pump water beneath the boat to blast away the mud if that happens.

Looks like the hatches (head, salon, v-berth) may have also been taken when the boat was up higher above water; you can tell from the recent photo that the companionway hatch cover, cockpit locker, and small port for the head have been removed. You will need to find a way to seal all of these off before you attempt to pump the boat dry.


----------



## farmboy

thinwater said:


> People --
> 
> Turned around, will a 200 GPM pump stir up the mud sufficiently to suck it back out? Maybe two pumps, one going in, one going out? I figure we'll have about 2 - 3 hours of "clean-out" time before we have to stuff the bag inside and pump it up.


Without really knowing you situation, this is what I'd try. I think you need the smallest flush hose possible (without hurting the pump) to create as much pressure as possible to really blast the mud out. Any water on top of the mud will dampen the force of the stream, so I would pump out as much water as possible and then blast away at the mud. Good luck. It's good to hear that you're still trying.


----------



## thinwater

*Please return your boat to the full upright position*

The mast is supposedly keel stepped, which is why it hasn't fallen out or over laying on it's side - if that won't loosen it up, I don't know what will. Frankly, I'm concerned about cabin top distortion from holding the mast unsupported for so long.

You might be right about the mud; maybe just rake it toward the pump intake with a hoe, or even stir up the muck with the grate on the end. Then clean the rags, etc. off the intake grate, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Let's see a show of hands from people who want to be a part of this - anyone?

John


----------



## KeelHaulin

The "step" on a keel stepped mast is simply a plate that has fingers up into the bottom of the mast about 1 inch. The plate is usually just lag screwed to the step an it is not designed to support a mast while lying on it's side or even while upright (where the shear loads would be lower). It's only there to help locate the mast properly on the mast step. If the mast lets go from the base it will be a real bugger to get it secured properly without a crane; so that's why I suggest stabilizing it before it falls out of the step or shears the tabs.

If I could help I would; but I'm in California so can only offer advice.


----------



## MorganPaul

> Let's see a show of hands from people who want to be a part of this - anyone?


I would help if I was closer (I am up in NY).

The mast and the lead ballast must be worth a few grand.


----------



## thinwater

*Good point.....*

....about the mast. If I can get her out before something else happens, the mast should stand. Once she's vertical, the weight ought to hold the step end in place for a short tow ride. Nonetheless, some sort of tie-off to the unsupported side is prudent.

John


----------



## artbyjody

I'd advise having two of those pumps at the ready. One dropped in blowing into the water to stir up the sediment (effectively hydro blasting) and the other to pump. That Carolina Mud is akin to concrete once it settles and raking it will be a an exhaustive effort. Once broken apart though and stirred in with the water you'll have some time to let the other pump do the work or if you stir it all up first then use both to pump out. Just a mindless suggestion and how I clean out my ponds....


----------



## sailingfool

FWIW, its odd the OP isn't offering the papers upfront to anybody who wants them, if he was on his game he'd sweeten the free papers with $1000 or two in advance to get someone else on the hook for the hulk. 

Looks to me like this thread has swung past the tragedy and now we get the farce.


----------



## NCC320

thinwater...

If you were to succeed in getting the boat floated, exactly what would you have? How many hours of work and how many dollars would you have to invest to make it usable as a sailboat? And if you were to take some of those dollars that you are going to need and look around in boatyards, wouldn't you find one that is much closer to being ready to sail? You would save on hours, probably on money, and be sailing sooner.

The boat needs to come up by someone, and there was a time early on when salvage probably made sense. But now?

If you really want to get it up, hire a crane, which is what should have been done in the first place. 

In any event, since you seem bound to try it, I wish you luck.


----------



## RanAweigh

sailingfool said:


> FWIW, its odd the OP isn't offering the papers upfront to anybody who wants them, if he was on his game he'd sweeten the free papers with $1000 or two in advance to get someone else on the hook for the hulk.
> 
> Looks to me like this thread has swung past the tragedy and now we get the farce.


When this first began I really felt sorry for the OP's loss. SailingFool, you were right all along. This has turned out to be a dereliction of responsibility!


----------



## SEMIJim

RanAweigh said:


> When this first began I really felt sorry for the OP's loss. SailingFool, you were right all along. This has turned out to be a dereliction of responsibility!


"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Dereliction it may be, but it may be the OP had little choice. From the thread over on CF, previously referenced:


> Im not having any second thoughts on the boat at all. Loosing my home of the last 3 years got to me enough that I'm done with boats. I can't afford to fix it up, or do anything with it right now anyway, hence the reason I'm giving it away.


Looks like the OP fell on financial hard times just as his boat was stricken.

Jim


----------



## camaraderie

He had a choice to begin with. That he chose not to heed the advice given resulted in this loss. The boat remains his responsibility regardless of his CURRENT ability to pay for its' disposal.


----------



## PalmettoSailor

camaraderie said:


> He had a choice to begin with. That he chose not to heed the advice given resulted in this loss. The boat remains his responsibility regardless of his CURRENT ability to pay for its' disposal.


Thats the sad truth. Its a case of compounding case of penny wise and pound foolish-ness.

The OP had a boat that was beyond his financial means to maintain, so instead of a slip or adequate mooring, he anchored the boat unattended in a tidal creek, putting it at risk.

Then when the the foreseeable result of the boat going aground then flooding happened, the money was not there to hire a powerful enough boat to tow her off and refloat her.

Now its likely the only chance of success is using a crane barge and the boat is probably scrap even so.

The owner should have either sold or given the boat (while it was something other than a liablity) to someone that could afford to adequately secure it or sucked it up financially and put the boat on the hard.


----------



## chall03

Let's remember that the OP was just a 23 year old who was wide eyed and full of dreams of cruising. 

Now If I had never made a mistake in judgement in my early twenties, never been guilty of stupidity and never arrogantly ignored other's advice, I too would be tempted to join in the righteous chorus. I however am lacking in such a qualification.

I bought my first boat at 23, knew it all and was going to cruise the world in my little 24 footer, if only I could work out how to start the outboard. 
7 years later and I look back and wish i could slap my 23 year old self.

However I look at the pictures of this poor guy's boat and all I can think is 'There but for the grace of God go I'.

Best of luck Thin Water.


----------



## St Anna

Yeah Chall. How many of us armchair cruisers have been hammered by bad weather - enough to have days of no sleep where the ability to make good clear judgement calls has diminished along with the available options. 

How many have been in situations where it could have been me or you being picked to pieces by armchair critics??

I could still star on this thread - give me some time....


----------



## bloodhunter

Well said Chall
I was 19 and probably was even more deficient in the judgment department than anyone here. I was just a whole helluva lot luckier. Actually there were four of us which probably exponentially decreased whatever sense we might have had. We set out into the Atlantic without once paying attention to the weather reports and got hit by one of the worst spring storms ever to hit the east cost. We survived -- because we had a very strong boat and were incredibly lucky. It could easily have been otherwise.
To paraphrase Shakespeare, DS made a grievous mistake -- and grievously has he paid for it. I'm sure that he's kicking himself 24-7 for the coulda,shoulda,woulda of the situation. I just hope he can put it behind him and has some smooth sailing, at least for a while. We should just let the poor guy alone


----------



## Wookie1974

view it as the perfect oppurtunity to redecorate....worked for me after my divorce! 

Wookie1974


----------



## PalmettoSailor

bloodhunter said:


> Well said Chall
> I was 19 and probably was even more deficient in the judgment department than anyone here. I was just a whole helluva lot luckier. Actually there were four of us which probably exponentially decreased whatever sense we might have had. We set out into the Atlantic without once paying attention to the weather reports and got hit by one of the worst spring storms ever to hit the east cost. We survived -- because we had a very strong boat and were incredibly lucky. It could easily have been otherwise.
> To paraphrase Shakespeare, DS made a grievous mistake -- and grievously has he paid for it. I'm sure that he's kicking himself 24-7 for the coulda,shoulda,woulda of the situation. I just hope he can put it behind him and has some smooth sailing, at least for a while. We should just let the poor guy alone


This is a BS arguement. This boat wasn't a victim of severe weather. It wasn't blown off a mooring in a hurricane and it wasn't left were it was due to emergency conditions. Those are things that could indeed happen to any of us.

What happened in this case was not any of that. This boat was put where it was put to save a buck, and it was not secure enough to handle even normal weather conditions. As owners we secure our boats to handle typical weather and take extra precautions when truly serious weather is predicted. This boat was put where even an average thunderstorm iwould put it in grave peril. Few of us would leave our boat in such conditions for more than a few hours, and only if we were close by and returning soon. If that was the case, I would have more sympathy but that is not the case. This boat was left in peril for days and weeks at at a time, becasue the owner could not afford to secure it properly. Now its on the bottom, and the owner has walked away.

Yes he lost his boat, but it appears that others have been left to pay the expense to clean up his mess.


----------



## camaraderie

Last time I checked 23 year olds make lots of errors of judgment. I certainly was no slouch! Last time I checked 23 year olds are accountable to the law as adults. The expense and removal of the boat are his responsibility NOT the taxpayers of South Carolina or Charleston. That is not giving him a hard time... that is saying yeah...you didn't listen and now you have to pay an even bigger price and you damn well don't have any right to my (tax) money to solve your problem nor do you have a right to walk away from the boat as you have done. 
May I remind all the apologists that derelict and abandoned boats are one big reason why landlubbers enact restrictive anchoring laws that affect us all.


----------



## knothead

Cam, You sound like an old fogie. Oh wait, you are an old fogie.


----------



## camaraderie

That I am! 
I do revel in my ability to contemplate my navel while you are hanging in the hot sun at the top of some mast however! Please continue your contributions to my social welfare for as long as possible!!


----------



## chall03

Cam I do take your point, and you are right. 

Maybe part of growing up is indeed learning how to have the balls to man-up and fix problems of your own creation....

Rightly or wrongly, I just can't can't help feeling sorry for the guy.....


----------



## camaraderie

chall03 said:


> Rightly or wrongly, I just can't can't help feeling sorry for the guy.....


Well ...I can agree with that too!


----------



## mallo

*Boats and Rocks, Don't go together!!*

Don't know if I should admit  to it but been there, got the t-shirt&#8230;. But got the boat back and after 18 Months of hard graft re-built her, now last survey said she is in better condition than she has been for many years&#8230;..




























That was a very bad day too&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - that's it! We obviously have a couple of epic BFS stories in here, judging by the above posts. So:

*mallo
bloodhunter*

Report to the BFS THREAD and tell us what the hell happened!

Holy crap!


----------



## mallo

Sorry smackdaddy, what is the BFS Thread?? (Excuse my ignorance)


----------



## painkiller

"Boat Freakin' Sunk"


----------



## smackdaddy

mallo - Big Freakin' Sails. Click in the link in my post above to get there. Obviously - this one didn't turn out so great for you. But it looks like a hell of a story.

Now, Cam, you keep harping on something that isn't quite true as far as I can see from the posts:



camaraderie said:


> *He had a choice to begin with. That he chose not to heed the advice given resulted in this loss.* The boat remains his responsibility regardless of his CURRENT ability to pay for its' disposal.


and



camaraderie said:


> That is not giving him a hard time... that is saying yeah...*you didn't listen and now you have to pay an even bigger price and you damn well don't have any right to my (tax) money to solve your problem* nor do you have a right to walk away from the boat as you have done.


You make it sound like you and others were giving him all kinds of advice that he was outright ignoring. But, looking back at his posts and the responses he got - that wasn't quite the case:
1. He asks about anchoring techniques in a marina area he was moored in. 
2. Get's some feedback from Maine regarding needing more scope and weight - especially with having two boats on the system. (The one quoted herein).
3. Looks into some other mooring options (train wheels, etc.).
4. He moves the boat from that area to the creek and anchors.
5. Gets hit by Hanna. Loses a couple of anchors in succession, but the boat survives okay. 
6. Gets hit with a squall and loses the boat while it is on a single anchor.

So unless I'm missing it, where is all this advice he "ignores"? Especially yours?

I mean it sounds good to say this if you want to keep grave dancing. But you need to go back and look at the facts, dude. What am I missing?

I agree with you that it's not cool to leave the boat. But that's a different matter. My hunch is that he wasn't dripping with cash to salvage the thing. How much do you think it would take to do it right? How many thousands? What permits, etc. and costs would it take to cut it up or whatever in the water? The guy tried to do what we could from what I see. Then he walked. Again, understandable, but not cool.

So, principally, you're right on that score. BUT from what I see in the posts, you're way off on the "I told you so" crap.

Stop beating the guy up and stick with the facts. He screwed up. He admitted it. He lost his boat. What more do you want?


----------



## camaraderie

More bullcrap from the chief troll. 
1. I never said I told him anything. The only advice I ever gave him was on solar panels. Nice try spin-monkey.
2. Multiple people commented on his home-made 500 lb. mooring plan and told him to get a REAL mooring. That is the advice he ignored as he just stayed on his anchor....even after losing a couple of them. Here's the thread for anyone else to review:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/35418-how-make-decent-mooring.html

By the way troll-daddy... your boat has been recovered...it was hidden by the rubber ducky.


----------



## chall03

Pain, you crack me up.


----------



## PalmettoSailor

Does someone that puportedly lived on a boat for 2 years need to be told that leaving a boat for weeks at a time on a single anchor in a tidal creek is a bad idea? Really? 

Wasn't the solicitation of advice from strangers on the internet really just asking for valildation? I think in his heart he knew what he was doing was a bad idea, and if he could have afforded the boat he never would have done it.

He was just like the chick that wanted to cruise with dogs. Folks with experince cruising all gave reasons why it was a bad idea but the lady could not be disuaded. This guy knew the risk, he just wanted someone to say it would be ok. Then he wanted to find folks that would feel sorry for him which he seems to have done in spades. 

I don't feel sorry for him a bit. I feel sorry for whoever ends doing the work or paying the tab for pulling that boat out of there, whether it be my family's tax dollars (Brother, Sister and Niece within 40 miles of that boat) or a volunteer organization that works to protect our natural resources.


----------



## smackdaddy

camaraderie said:


> More bullcrap from the chief troll.
> 1. I never said I told him anything. The only advice I ever gave him was on solar panels. Nice try spin-monkey.
> 2. Multiple people commented on his home-made 500 lb. mooring plan and told him to get a REAL mooring. That is the advice he ignored as he just stayed on his anchor....even after losing a couple of them. Here's the thread for anyone else to review:
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/35418-how-make-decent-mooring.html
> 
> By the way troll-daddy... your boat has been recovered...it was hidden by the rubber ducky.


On point 1 - Cool, then don't hammer him. It's not your fight. That was my point.

On point 2 - I read the thread. Lot's of discussion about what a "REAL" mooring means. Granite? Concrete? I don't see "mulitple people" giving him the advice you're trying to imply. Maine says 500 pounds isn't enough. Others talk about all kinds of ways to do a homemade mooring. Environmental issues come up with the lead and he moves away from that. And then someone says to buy a mushroom anchor.

Dude, this doesn't require any spin. It only requires reading the posts. Sorry - no dice.

However, I do have to give you credit for the name-calling: 2 trolls, 1 monkey, and a duck. Impressive.

PS - Sounds like a joke..."2 trolls, a monkey and a duck walk into a bar..."


----------



## camaraderie

1 On your point one...screw you...I'll mess with anyone I think deserves it. Who made the Troll the keeper of the faith?

2. On your other points...people can see right through them if they read the thread as midlife just did. Just trolling as usual. 

3. On your PS...yes...you are a joke.


----------



## smackdaddy

midlifesailor said:


> I think in his heart he knew what he was doing was a bad idea, and if he could have afforded the boat he never would have done it.


You know Mid, I think you actually hit the heart of the issue. Money. Doing things on the cheap. Doing it yourself. And the gamble of "I'll do it as soon as I can afford it."

How many of us can "afford" to ALWAYS do it "right" every time? That's what I think people are responding to and seeing room for sympathy. Especially taking into account his age.

Of course, discussing this issue is a lot more thorny than just the mooring, anchoring and abandoning issue.


----------



## JT1019

Wow, this thread has gone to hell in a hand basket....

Can't we all get along and have civilized debates without throwing mud? Christ, the reason I came to SailNet was for the MATURITY of it’s members, unlike other forums that shall remain nameless. 

PLAY NICE!


----------



## bubb2

Not for nothing, I don't laws where the boat is, but in every state I ever lived in you just can't drop a mooring where ever you please in state waters without a permit from the DNR.


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## scottyt

well bubb not to argue, but maryland has no permits, its on a county bases, where i live they have no laws. i plan on putting in a mooring very soon, and all they can do is tax me on it as property. 

so worse case they try to hit me on taxes for a slip rental total and there are some slips with no facilities for 1800 a year. so even tax cant be much


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## bubb2

Scottyt, I left out the word "know" in my post above. In other states I had to file for permits for docks and a mooring. In I case it took about 6 months before I got the OK back from the state.

I am curious thou what does keep person from mooring a boat in the middle of a navigable creek?


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## peptobysmol

midlifesailor said:


> He was just like the chick that wanted to cruise with dogs.


This sounds like an interesting read. got a link?


----------



## cnc33voodoo

I feel bad for the boat because there are so many people out there who would have given this boat the treatment it needed and it fell in the hands of a moron.
Now the boat is a safety risk to anyone on those waters and where is he?
Broke, thats where.
The township should have it removed and scrapped as its a hazard, send him the bill and make an example out of him for future deliquants.
Do I feel sorry for him? not a bit.Thats what happens when you roll the dice.
For anyone feeling sorry for him, ask yourself, where is your boat right now?


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## joethecobbler

Well,well ,well 

Cars crash, Motorcycles wreck, planes go down, Boats ground,sink, get holed,turtle,loose Their rig etc. etc.
I"ve been sailing boating for over 35 years,fresh water and salt from St.Pete to LakeOntario. I've always had at least on boat not to include anything below 20' always a few more of those around (tenders,dinghy,etc.)
I think I've spent a total of about 9-11 months in a marina tide to a dock.
Crashed a 28' owens on the North shore of Senca Lake in NY about 15-18 years ago,350 chevy quite and wind drove it onto the rocks,bummer.(cut it up and drug it off the next day after the storm) Had a 195? 35' richardson sedan cruiser I put 2 winters of work into got bashed onto a dock piling and sank (another chainsaw and wrecker party) Finally decided sailing would be fun and haven't wrecked or sunk anything significant since (touch wood).
None of these boats would have been spared by paying a slip fee.
A slip doesn't guarantee (sic) the boat will not sink,burn,fall into disrepair,etc.
I've always anchored I'll continue to anchor, I like lying at anchor. It's nice. it is very traditional, an when done properly extremely safe and dependable.
I believe ships have anchored successfully for centuries, maybe longer !
I don't think anchoring was the issue in this case. I think (like most accidents) it was culmination of a series of events that led to the loss of this vessel and the subsiquent failed attempts at recovery. A true tradjedy for the vessel as well as her master. 
Read "slocum's" books. an accomplished world sailor. Had a couple of vessel losses. read other accounts of Famous and not so famous sailors, they too occasionally lost fine craft. Moitessier lost a couple. It happens, the more you sail the more you play the odds.
Don't hate me or make generalizations because of the methods I use in the navigation of my craft.just learn from it, good and bad, I like to think I learn more each time I'm aboard. I love boating,specifically sailing. 
When I hear the wind howl and note the strength and direction of the prevailing winds and I'm ashore , I get a knot in my stomach even after all these years. I don't feel the false security of a dockline or mooring ball keeps a boat afloat. It just makes it easier in some cases to refloat !
I see alot of Monday morning quarterbacks here on Sailnet. As I've stated in previous posts. Had I listened to all the "experts" I'd have spent the last few decades tied up next to them at the dock too afraid to venture out believing what I couldn't do and where I couldn't go. Fortunately I did otherwise.
Today I began loading my vessel in anticipation of another extended journey. Several trips out and back to the anchorage in the heavily laden 8 1/2' dinghy. I'll be casting off in the next week or so with the crew (woman,5 year old child, and 2 dogs-had 4 last time). Is the craft perfect ? hell no, then niether am I. could it all go bad? sure. is there risk and potential Danger? -Yup. 
I can't wait to go ! it's exilerating, it gives me a desire to live and get out of bed in the morning. 
One other thing, I'm dirt poor. always have been and probably always will be. I don't pretend otherwise. I scavenge the boatyard dumpsters and work at whatever is available to make my way. Sometimes Surf and turf in fine restaruants, sometimes hook and line ! Ah,variety the spice of life. 
When I die , I'll have as much money as all the other dead people, but will have done a whole lot of living. 
See you on the water- 
peace. (through superior fire power if necesary)


----------



## PalmettoSailor

peptobysmol said:


> This sounds like an interesting read. got a link?


You are sick, SICK!!.....I like that in a person.


----------



## St Anna

Yeah Joe,
Like Nike and I say - just do it. 

Be prepared- and sort out what needs to be sorted if and when it happens. 

Our 5 year old is now 14 and getting fairly useful on the boat. No dogs but ships cat. So similar story. Have fun. 
David


----------



## johnshasteen

sailingfool said:


> You guys are delusional to think there is any boat value left in this situation/quote]
> 
> Not neccessarily the case SailingFool. When Alica hit the Texas coast in the fall of 1979, she brought 42 inches of rain in 24 hours and pushed a 12 foot storm tide up as far as Kemah and Seabrook (50 miles north of the Gulf). Our boat, a 9-year old Columbia 28, rode up on her lines as far as she could, filled up with water and sunk in the slip.
> We pumped her out and refloated her in the slip, towed her to a ship yard where they cleaned her up, pickled the engine, washed the sails, replaced the cushions, the stove and electronics and we were off and running again.
> However, our biggest problem wasn't the boat - she was fine. We had 19 inches of water in the house.
> A couple of years later, we sold the Columbia for more than we paid for her and bought a nearly-new Bristol, which we still have and has endured every named storm to hit the Texas coast since.


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## sailortjk1

John,
Have you seen the photos? The boat in question has been laying on her side in a mud flat for several months. There is likely several tons of mud in her. Sinking at the slip and being raised in a matter of days is not the same thing.


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## JT1019

Lets be honest here, chances are the boat is trash. She is laying in a salty, muddy and hot pool of water. She is semi submerged and sinking quickly. She may or may not have been struck by other boats and she has already been invaded by scavengers. The bottom paint is failing or has failed, the standing rigging is failing and has, in some places, failed. Winches are missing, hatches are missing, she has no engine or sails or any other salvageable systems. If I were to render a guess the hull is covered with marine growth and blisters, the interior has hundreds if not thousands of pounds of mud and other crap stuck to it, the keel bolts are rusting, the mast/rigging is compromised, the gelcoat is shot, the rudder is bent, the running rigging is gone and she looks like something Poseidon threw-up! 

Honestly, she would be a great project for a father and son, or a grandfather and grandson but not for someone who does not have 3 years to put into a complete restoration. In the end the cost of the materials to rebuild her will far surpass the cost of the same boat in good condition from Yacht World but it will always be a salvage boat. Good luck and best wishes to anyone who would undertake a project like this. Personally I would advise anyone contemplating this undertaking to just invite all of his or her friend over, get naked in front of all of them in a cold shower, put on a blindfold and attempt to complete a rubix cube while one of his or her friends beats them over the head with a winch handle and another burns and flushes $100’s…it would be the same as rebuilding this boat.

The sad part is all of this could have been prevented with a little forward thinking, a bit more maturity and the ability to ask for help when the last owner was over his head. I’m not saying he is completely to blame, weather and wind had something to do with it but his lack of urgency and inability to focus on the catastrophic events at hand have left a gorgeous boat at the bottom of a swamp. Lets burry her with a little dignity and remember her as she was before this tragedy unfolded.


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## thedigitalforge

*A very sad story*

Very best of luck with the salvage and refit.


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## smackdaddy

JT1019 said:


> Personally I would advise anyone contemplating this undertaking to just invite all of her or her friend over, get naked in front of all of them in a cold shower, put on a blindfold and attempt to complete a rubix cube while one of his or her friends beats them over the head with a winch handle and another burns and flushes $100's&#8230;it would be the same as rebuilding this boat.


Were you at my last birthday party? Sounds eerily familiar.

As for the boat, I personally agree with you, it's gone. But remember there's always someone out there with a rubik's cube and some benjamins.

NOW PLAY NICE!


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## JT1019

No I missed your birthday party but I was describing every relationship I have ever been in!

I always play nice…well usually always...I do most of the time…ok never mind then.


----------



## JohnRPollard

midlifesailor said:


> He was just like the chick that wanted to cruise with dogs.





peptobysmol said:


> This sounds like an interesting read. got a link?


Here you go:

Cruising With Bull Dogs

A Sailnet classic...


----------



## smackdaddy

After you're finished with that one - you really need to read the epic SolarStik Thread too. Another classic. Even Dog almost got banned!


----------



## Capnblu

I don't know for sure, but it seems cameraderie doesn't seem to like Smacky. Or is he just playin? Hmmmm.


----------



## chall03

Dog banned????
I need to re read more of Solarstik.
I lost track of the going on's there after 800 posts or so.


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## artbyjody

Inside Edition had a segment tonite on abandoned boats, right there in Charleston. I could of sworn I saw his boat on the segment. Mount Pleasant (a suburb of Charleston) just passed a $5000 dollar fine + 30 days in Jail for abandoned boats, and now cracking down it with the plethora of ones left clogging the waterways...


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## camaraderie

Good for them! Thanks for the news. More places ought to do this as the threat of a fine worth more than a boat should serve to discourage others.


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## thinwater

*Abandoned Boats*

Jody --

Can you supply any links to the information you saw? Was it all on IE or is there a secondary source? Thanks!

John


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## bubb2

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/01boats.html?_r=1


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## sailaway21

Capnblu said:


> I don't know for sure, but it seems cameraderie doesn't seem to like Smacky. Or is he just playin? Hmmmm.


Smacky inadvertently wandered into a sailing thread. Usually he just critiques the motives of the other members but he seems to now think that his opinion on salvage, mooring procedures, and maintaining a boat on the cheap are of some relevance. He'll wander back to his bathtub to re-enact the fishing boat scene for the umpteenth time after awhile. And he's got another girl to save from the clutches of the AFOC's, as well. Lot's of work for a busy troll.


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## camaraderie

John...here's the discussion at the town council:
3.	Abandoned watercraft fine amount
Mr. Burdette stated that council needs to set the minimum/maximum fine for this ordinance. Mr. Burdette stated that State Law allows that the fine range from $1,000 to $5,000 but with the assessments that go along with the fines a $1000 fine becomes approximately a $2,000 fine and a $5,000 would be approximately $10,000.

Ms. Kirvin stated that she had also calculated the price of a $2,500 fine which would be mid-point and the total with all assessments and surcharges would be $5,242.50. Ms. Kirvin added the amount for a $1,000 fine would be $2,130.00.

Mr. Collins asked if we were identifying the boats and if we have any response from the owners.

Mr. Burdette stated that placards had been placed on the boats but there is a long waiting period and that we are still at that point. Mr. Burdette stated that no one has gone to court yet but it is only a matter of time.

Mr. Burdette stated that he recommends the minimum and maximum fine be set at $1,000. Mr. Burdette added that the $1,000 fine which turns into a $2,000 fine should get someone's attention.

Mr. Collins asked if this fine was to recoup costs involved in removing the boats or just a fine to someone not responding to removing the boats.

Mr. Burdette stated that this was a punishment and the money goes in the general fund of the Town just like any other fine does and our cost should be very minimal.

Chief Sewell stated that we are still in the placard process and have heard from two of the boat owners.

Mr. Burdette stated that once a $1,000 minimum fine is set it is still in the judge's discretion
to charge up to the $5,000 maximum fine.

Mr. Young asked for clarification from Ms. Kirvin as to whether we were setting the standard fine/bond amount, and if this would limit the Judge's authority at all.

Ms. Kirvin answered that it would be the bond amount that the officer will write at the top of the ticket and the minimum will be $1,000 so the total bond will be $2,130.00.

Mr. Young asked for clarification of what was being asked of the committee by way of a recommendation to Council.

Ms Kirvin stated she was asking to set the bond amount.

Ms. Stokes-Marshall asked if the cost factor involved from the notification to giving out of the fines is absorbed in the fine.

Mr. Burdette stated that this is not a cost recovery program that this is a fine and the money goes into the general fund. Mr. Burdette added that whatever it costs the Town to have a boat removed is what it costs the Town. Mr. Burdette added the boats can be salvaged or the boats will go to a land fill.

Mr. Young stated that there is a provision in the statute that the individual can ultimately responsible for all cost. He added that whether the Town can actually recover is an open question. Mr. Young reiterated that there is a separate provision to recover any costs if the owner of the boat can be identified, but the Town has to be prepared for the worst case scenario.

Mr. Collins moved to recommend to full council the minimum/maximum abandoned watercraft fine of $1,000. Mr. Gawrych seconded the motion. All present were in favor.

Mr. Collins asked Mr. Young to clarify if the judge has the ability to increase the fine to $5,000 even though the minimum is set at $1,000.

Mr. Young stated that he will look the statue over and come back with a clarification

Ms. Kirvin stated that the statue indicates that the fine is not less than $1,000 and no more than $5,000 and the bond amount would be the total amount including any assessments and surcharges that the ordinance allows for.

Mr. Young stated that the language is that committee is setting the "standard" fine/ bond amount, with the ultimate decision up to the Judge.

Mr. Collins stated that he did not want to tie the hand of the judges by limiting the maximum amount.

Ms. Kirvin stated the only limitation would be the $1,000 minimum as they would not be able to go any less than that.

Chief Sewell stated that setting a limit gives the officer some guidance one where to start the amount and paints everybody the same.
************
Source: The Town of Mount Pleasant Online Mount Pleasant, South Carolina

****************
Finally on 5/2 at the Mt. Pleasant Town Council:
"2. Abandoned watercraft fine amount.
Mr. Burdette stated, after much discussion, the Committee voted
that the fine/bond be $1000 and with assessments that would amount
to approximately $2,500. Mr. Burdette stated they have since
discussed this with our Judges and he asked Ms. Levica Kirvin to
present what the Judges propose.
Ms. Kirvin stated the Judges would like to see Council approve the
mid-range which would be $5,242.50. That amount would get
everyone's attention, and would allow them the discretion to go
lower or higher on the fine, up to $10,000 on a $5,000 fine.
Town Council Meeting
May 12, 2009
Page 19 of 25
19
Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked if the Judges were asking to set the
minimum fine at $2,500 and increase it to $5,000 with assessments.
Ms. Kirvin answered in the affirmative.
Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked if there was any discussion among
Council because this differs from what the Committee had
discussed.
*Mr. Santos moved to approve the judges' recommendation for the
$2,500.00 as a minimum fine with the extra assessments added that
amount to $5,242.50; motion seconded by Mr. Gawrych. Motion
carried unanimously.

Source: http://www.townofmountpleasant.com/downloads/MAY 12 2009 TC.pdf
*


----------



## WheresTheBrakes

Thanks for that Camraderie, I hadn't seen it before.. 
It's about time, and hopefully the municipaliites around MtP will do the same..


----------



## thinwater

*Clear as Charleston Mud*

Thanks for the info . Now, if I get understand correctly (long shot) the boat and owner would get a $2500 ticket, tied to the boat or delivered at home, whatever, which would increase over time to $5200? What is that time frame?

Or, is it a $2500 fine which sort of "automatically" becomes $5200 due to court costs, service fees, research expenses, etc.?

Thanks,

John


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## scottyt

i think the way to handle this, or one way. the state puts a sign on the boat, after 30 days the boat is free to whom ever wants it. now the new taker has to go thru DNR or who ever to contact the owner, and has the right to the boat after 30 days. the person claiming the boat should be able to reclaim any storage fees for the 30 days, with a max of say 500 bucks.

edit, basicly speeding up the process already in effect for abandoned boats or mechanic leans already on the books


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## joethecobbler

These SOUND like great ideas, "fine 'em, fine 'em big,etc,etc. " 
The reality is it's not that simple, at all. 
Abandoned vessel issues are not new. the only real effect to these types of "feel good" ordinances is alot of justification for the enforcement and judicial system's ever increasing budget.
As evidenced by the conversation of the town board posted by Cam. one person keeps asking where the money's going and repeatedly is told the "general Fund". If the issue is actually the waterways safety,navigation etc. etc. then the cash should be used for that.
Aside from the money grab. the reality is that the people abandoning their vessels most likely did/do so in a large part due to financial issues. if they were unable to deal w/ the boat themselves with all the different options available. Tell me how the courts or any concious person can expect to collect these 1000's and 1000's in fines? get real. Are perhaps you familiar with the term "blood from a stone?"
I would much rather see more organizations like waterkeeper or riverwatcher or whomever take an interest with actual results than yet more time and resource wasted on the "punishment" approach. 
Of course I favor a return on my investment rather than more feel good unfunded mandates, and red tape.
Look at successful waterfront communities and take their lead in methods used to prevent abandoned and derelict vessels before they become costly removal issues by comunities. 
More interest and self education of mariners and waterfront comunities .The remedies already at their dispose as well as good old self policing by all in the boating community would go alot further than the punishment approach.
One of the biggest issues with these vessels is determining ownership , Florida has taken a big step requiring all vessels on the water to be registered at all times.(can't believe it was otherwise) of course enforcing the laws are another issue, as there are several unregistered in my immediate area now, and they've been there a while. No doubt on the way to the bottom.
So much for more laws.
Derelict vessel in florida is a criminal offense. yet I've never read or know of anyone being prosecuted for it.


----------



## smackdaddy

+1 Joe. 

This thread, and some comments herein, has given me an idea for another discussion we should have about boat ownership.

I'll start that one tonight after I get back from the boat. Interesting stuff.


----------



## rallens

*the down and dirty*

Me and a friend went out and took a look at Distant Star yesterday. I found out about her when my boss told me about the craigslist ad.

I took pics but can't post them because I'm new to the site. 10 posts before you can posts links? So bare with me if I make several non-posts so I can get the pics out to all who are interested. In the mean time she looks pretty damn bad. But I'm still tempted. Probably because I'm a complete novice and have no idea what a mess I would be getting myself in to. Not so much the recovery, but the rebuild.

Supposedly someone else is going out next weekend to take a shot at getting her out of the mud. The good news, for that person, is she actually isn't full of mud like many have suggested on here, she's just laying in it. I swam all around her and felt around both under and inside her (wear skiing gloves) and the mud inside is negligible. I wish the perspective salvor luck. But if he fails to get her out I may take a shot at her myself. I'm almost more interested in the challenge of floating her again than what to do with her afterward. If anything I only live about 20 minutes away from where she lies and would be willing to lend a hand to any potential salvors. Just shoot me a message.

I'll post the pics as soon as I hit the 10 post mark.


----------



## rallens

here you go

Flickr: rallens' Photostream


----------



## MorganPaul

Thanx rallens for the update. 

All I can say is. She does not look good. I hope she gets floated soon.


----------



## sailhog

Nice work, Rallens. So what does one do with such a boat once she's floated?


----------



## thinwater

*After me, you're first in line*

Rallens, everyone --

I have been in contact with the owner for a couple of weeks and we have resolved all of the issues so that I can attempt to raise her. It won't be next weekend (tides are all wrong) but rather the 15th. I have my diver lined up, my float bags, and some labor and services to assist if the stars align, distant or otherwise.

I'm glad to hear she's not full of mud, but it may be settled in places that can't be seen or felt from the cockpit. Still, it sounds better than most of us imagined.

You, and everyone else on this list who can make it, are welcome to come out and help or just cheer for us (and her). It has taken quite a bit of organization just to get the pieces (people, supplies, and equipment) in place, but I'm pretty sure she's coming out of there on the rising tide 10/15/09. I'll be posting here in the days leading up to the resurrection.

John


----------



## rallens

That's good to hear. Just out of curiosity where did you get your lift bags? I was looking into renting them from

Rental Tools Online - Specialty Tools and ROVs for Hazardous Locations, Underwater, and Emergency Services.

or buying them from

http://www.proliftbags.com/index.html

But after seeing the shape she was in in person my budget for recovery shrank.

There are a lot of ideas and opinions in this thread about how to get her out on the cheap. The reality of the situation is without professional lift bags (or a tugboat or crane) it's gonna be a lot of work to get her out.

So here's my two cents or what I had planed for my recovery attempt. I'm not sure if you've seen her in person or not but it sounds like you have all your ducks in a row and you will be raising her on the 15th. So I hope my advice is of some use.

I planned on renting or buying four 6,600 lb lift bags. I figured with double the weight of the boat in lift capacity she'd have to float. Your biggest obstacle is going to be getting the straps under the hull to attach the starboard side lift bags to. You said you have a diver so that should help a lot in that task. The mud is fairly soft and pushing the straps under the hull may work. Or starting them from each end and using a come along to pull them towards the center. I had planed of placing two straps under the hull one in front and one behind the keel. And running two straps along the length of the keel to attach the two bags on each side together (to keep them from slipping out of position).

After swimming around Distant Star for about an hour yesterday I came to the conclusion (if I got the chance to float her) that I would place straps as mentioned above, attach the bags, and float her in her current position i.e. on her side. Tow her into deeper water where the weight of the keel should do its job. Once in deeper water if the weight of the keel is not enough to straighten her out you should be able to get her vertical with a little help from your friends. Then fire up the old trash pump, and in a few minutes she'll be floating on her own. I addition to the lift bags I also considering filling the cabin with various things to increase the overall buoyancy. One thing I thought might work would be bunnage bags

Home - Dunnage Air Bags

There pretty cheap but I never got around to finding a local supplier and testing them to see how tough they are.

Anyway, I wish you luck and I hope my two cents were of some use.

p.s. let me know what time you'll be out there I may be able to muster a few good men to come help you out.


----------



## artbyjody

thinwater said:


> Jody --
> 
> Can you supply any links to the information you saw? Was it all on IE or is there a secondary source? Thanks!
> 
> John


It was on Entertainment tonite or whatever rag on on NBC that does it (just google it.. between CBS and NBC the story is there I am sure it was Inside Edition" though Friday Aug 1st.... It was interesting as they ran stories before but never with govt officials, and I grew up In SC..in that area


----------



## JohnRPollard

Thanks for the photos, rallens. (The 10-post requirement is one of our anti-spam features).

It's clear from the photos that the boat has experienced some serious structural damage (e.g. chainplate ripping up through deck). So anyone considering a salvage should be aware that it's not going to be "simply" a matter of re-floating and re-fitting this boat. Major repairs and replacements are in the queue as well.

Why do you suppose the owner is giving it away?

Even free, this boat is no bargain. Sail-away boats, on trailers or floating in slips, with working engines, can be found for a fraction of the amount that will be spent rescuing and restoring this boat. (I know someone who bought his sail-away Tartan 27, on a road-worthy trailer, for $1 -- yes, one dollar).

A professional (someone in the business of not losing money) would charge a tidy sum for this salvage, even if they were offered the hulk in the bargain. Likewise, any novice accepting the responsibility for salvage and removal should be charging for their efforts.

Normally I would recommend that you take title of the vessel before expending effort or funds at salvaging it -- but in this case I would advise caution about assuming legal responsibility ahead of schedule. The notice secured to the end of the mast (in rallens' photos) will become the problem of whomever owns the vessel. As will any fines for environmental remediation that might be assessed as a result of the sinking or the salvage (fuel spills?)



rallens said:


> ....I planned on renting or buying four 6,600 lb lift bags. I figured with double the weight of the boat in lift capacity she'd have to float.


I think you need to re-confirm those weight estimates.

Best of luck!!


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## bubb2

Rallens, I know you didn't ask but I am going to add my comments. Your photo 1938 shows the rig compromised. You need to get that rig off that boat BEFORE you try to right her or float her. That mast could easily buckle or snap being unsupported on the port side. One good roll of the boat would be all it would take.


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## smackdaddy

John, a couple of questions:

1. Any ideas on the rough cost of a pro salvage on this thing? Are we talking $5K-10K? More?

2. Also, what could an owner do, on his own, on the cheap, to remedy the situation? Chainsaw it to pieces at low tide? Haul the pieces to the dump?

I'm just curious what a real solution here is for an owner if they don't have the money to pay for a salvage or serious hauling operation. For example, it seems that for this boat you're talking hauling whatever you chop up across the water, then to a truck at the nearest road Then to the dump or landfill. Then what environment issues are you facing when you do this? What permits do you need?

It looks like any way you try it - it's going to be very expensive.


----------



## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> John, a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Any ideas on the rough cost of a pro salvage on this thing? Are we talking $5K-10K? More?
> 
> 2. Also, what could an owner do, on his own, on the cheap, to remedy the situation? Chainsaw it to pieces at low tide? Haul the pieces to the dump?
> 
> I'm just curious what a real solution here is for an owner if they don't have the money to pay for a salvage or serious hauling operation. For example, it seems that for this boat you're talking hauling whatever you chop up across the water, then to a truck at the nearest road Then to the dump or landfill. Then what environment issues are you facing when you do this? What permits do you need?
> 
> It looks like any way you try it - it's going to be very expensive.


Smack,

I really couldn't even venture what it would cost to salvage this boat. My very general knowledge about costs of salvaging comes from reading insurance reports (Seaworthy, etc) on the costs of salvaging boats that were fully insured. My impression is that those costs are partly situational (location, risk, difficulty, etc) but almost universally fairly steep. Hence the frequent admonition to clarify that a situation is NOT a salvage when requesting towing assistance.

But if I had to guess, I think your figure of $5-10K for a professional salvage is in the ballpark. For that fee you'd get more than just a refloating of the vessel. A professional salvor would obtain any necessary permits and employ measures (encircling with petroleum absorbent booms, etc) to mitigate environmental damage.

But beyond the salvor's fees, there would be other costs. Once the vessel is refloated, it will need to be immediately towed, hauled, blocked, and stored. There are other cost uncertainties too. Who knows, if there are fines assessed against the vessel, it may be "impounded" until those fines are paid.

Absent the resources to pay for salvage or execute it himself, what is an owner to do? Good question. I don't have an answer. Personal bankruptcy?

For those lacking the resources to self-insure, this certainly would be a cautionary example in favor of maintaining at a minimum liability and salvage insurance, even on boats with minimal market value.


----------



## bloodhunter

Smack,
There you've asked what IMHO is the main relevant questions. How much will a salvage operatkion cost and what can an owner do if they don't have the money to effect a salvage or removal. 
Fining someone who can't afford to salavage the boat seems a waste of effort and resources (taxpayer money).
The other question is specific to this particular problem. If the boat is refloated then what. Assuming the hull is not damaged beyond repair, it looks like the boat will have to be completely rebuilt inside and out. Even for a person who has all the skills and tools necessary and a place to do the rebuilding, this still has got to cost a lot more than buying a similar boat in decent condition from a broker and that doesn't count the labor involved. 
Doesn't seem to be any good answer as to what to do.


----------



## camaraderie

So poor people should not be subject to fines when they break the law? 
Novel concept. 
The THREAT of fines causes behavior change. I'm sure a payment plan can be worked out with the courts/municipalities as needed in individual circumstances. 
I agree with your comments on the boat. The only sensible result will be chain saws and a crusher. 
You're right...there is NO good answer but personal responsibility rather than public responsibility is the BETTER answer.


----------



## chandlerman

camaraderie said:


> You're right...there is NO good answer but personal responsibility rather than public responsibility is the BETTER answer.


I'm with Cam. This is about ensuring that people own their responsibilities, which includes (especially) when things go wrong. To many boat owners are effectively under-capitalized and don't even realize it.

The key here is that the economics of the enforcement regimen must be sound, and then people *must be aware of them*. To whit:
1) It must be cheaper to carry salvage insurance then salvage a boat yourself. I trust the insurance actuaries to generally do a good job measuring & valuing this risk transfer onto themselves.
2) It must be cheaper to arrange salvage of the boat yourself than to leave it to the state.

#2 is where the current system seems to fail--if it costs $10,000 to salvage a boat sitting on mud, plus the overhead cost of managing the people and processes to provide it through the government, then the fine should cover that and would therefore reasonably meet requirement #2. It sounds like the fines being discussed are pretty minimal as compared (wasnt it something like $5,000? Probably needs to be 5x that!), which means that #2 will not produce the desired behavior on the part of negligent boat owners.

One of the theories behind government is that "regulations exist to ensure that externalities are put back onto their creators." This regulation would fail to do so. If people abuse the system (take the fine and walk away), then that becomes Moral Hazard (taking a risk, then letting the government bail you out afterwards when things go wrong), which is even worse.


----------



## bloodhunter

camaraderie said:


> So poor people should not be subject to fines when they break the law?
> Novel concept.
> The THREAT of fines causes behavior change. I'm sure a payment plan can be worked out with the courts/municipalities as needed in individual circumstances.
> I agree with your comments on the boat. The only sensible result will be chain saws and a crusher.
> You're right...there is NO good answer but personal responsibility rather than public responsibility is the BETTER answer.


 Cam,
I agree that personal responsibility is better than public responsibility but what is nice is theory does not necessarily work in practice. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that it often costs more to collect from people who don't have money than is ever collected. Payment plans, again you have the problem and costs of getting payments plus the costs of administering the plan. May if you don't pay you're in contempt of court and can be jailed -- I don't know... 
Maybe manadatory insurance as the do on autos with no sale or transfer of title allowed without proof of insurance. I'm not real happy with that and not at all sure it would work but the state does have a real interest in the issue.


----------



## PalmettoSailor

bloodhunter said:


> Cam,
> I agree that personal responsibility is better than public responsibility but what is nice is theory does not necessarily work in practice. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that it often costs more to collect from people who don't have money than is ever collected. Payment plans, again you have the problem and costs of getting payments plus the costs of administering the plan. May if you don't pay you're in contempt of court and can be jailed -- I don't know...
> Maybe manadatory insurance as the do on autos with no sale or transfer of title allowed without proof of insurance. I'm not real happy with that and not at all sure it would work but the state does have a real interest in the issue.


The point being missed is the fine is just the fine. The owner should also be held responsible for the cost of the removal over and above the fine. Garnish wages for the next 20 years if need be, but the cost should be borne by the individual.


----------



## smackdaddy

You guys are right. The fine does nothing to remedy the situation. It might act as some level of deterrent - but the boat is still there just like many, many others in the same situation.

It's a cost/risk/benefit analysis that everyone, rich and poor, live by. Fines won't be able to fix that.


----------



## thinwater

*One at a time....*

I won't know for sure if this boat is too far gone until she's out of the muck and the stick points up. My last boat (Ranger 33) hit a bridge (before I got her) and had a 6' tear in the cockpit and side deck. After the repair (including reattachment of a mis-matched rig), she sailed great, didn't leak (not there, anyway), and never gave me any real problems. The overriding reason I think there may still be a chance at saving this boat - it's a Pearson! The hull won't be a problem, and if the cabin top and side decks aren't rotted away, she'll be a gutted hull asking for a rebuild. But I won't know for sure 'til I raise her. And besides, it's an interesting engineering question.

I don't expect to solve the abandoned boat problem or settle the arguement about the best way to motivate/punish owners. I expect to raise this one and see if she has life left in her.

John


----------



## rallens

That's what I'm talking about John! Exactly what I was thinking. She's worth getting out of the mud regardless of your intentions afterward (scrap or rebuild). 

Just out of curiosity does anybody on here know if the keel on a Pearson is lead or iron? 

Hopefully you worked out a deal with the previous owner (don't want name drop, he's taken enough heat on here) to get the sails, motor, and whatever else he had in storage when she sank. 

I'm a complete novice (never owned a boat) and have likewise chosen to leave Distant Star to someone with more experience. You say the word John and I (and hopefully some other friends) will be there to lend you a hand. 

Robert


----------



## TSOJOURNER

> Someone who leaves his boat hanging on anchor for months at end, unattended, is not exactly a victim of bad luck when the boat is lost.
> 
> EDIT: leaving the hulk to settle, however, may be bad luck for some other boater, down the line.
> __________________


What wonderfully helpful comment you've made. It's certainly an indication of a compassionate, caring individual able to appreciate the constraints others face in their lives; and cognisant of the reality that not everyone is able to complete all of the tasks they wish they could each day.

One can only hope that when a misfortune of similar magnitude befalls you - as it will - (sooner or later we all have to deal with some major mistakes we've made); that you are the recipient of a multitude of equally thoughtful and supportive wishes.

Sincerely,


----------



## mallo

Well someone I know was very lucky&#8230;..










They went aground, were rescued off the boat, tide went out, had lunch, tide returned, went back aboard and floated off again!!!! I suppose it can happen to anyone, I know of three other similar instances two of them along the same line as the original poster&#8230;.. it can happen.

P.S. Smack I will tell the other story when I make some time to type it up, I am currently trying to get out sailing!!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Then go sailing dude! That's the only way BFS's happen anyway!

Have a good one dude.


----------



## thinwater

*What's in a name?*

Didja notice the name of the boat on the rocks?

S. V. Knight Star

If you are considering using the word "star" somewhere in the name of your boat, you might want to rethink your choice. These boats seem to have an affinity for dirt.

John


----------



## TSOJOURNER

thinwater said:


> If you are considering using the word "star" somewhere in the name of your boat, you might want to rethink your choice. These boats seem to have an affinity for dirt.


Oooh, the Titanic was another "star" ship (White Star Line). Maybe you're on to something.


----------



## chandlerman

thinwater said:


> If you are considering using the word "star" somewhere in the name of your boat, you might want to rethink your choice.


Hmm...a previous name of my boat was "Four Star" and I can still faintly read the name on the transom when it's not covered in spider webs.


----------



## AllThumbs

So, I guess she is still sunk huh?


----------



## casioqv

AllThumbs said:


> So, I guess she is still sunk huh?


Sounds like it, but it sounds like people are still planning to raise it? Man, I sure hope that happens!

It sounds like it's an unusually difficult job, since the OP seems to be fairly skilled/experienced at raising sunken sailboats, yet wasn't able to make it work.

Too bad I live so far away, as I'd really like to give it a try myself. My "plan" would involve wrapping ropes around the stern and bow of the boat, and then tying lots of cheap department store inflatable toys to the outside of the hull at low tide. I would also add several large anchors out in deep water, to keep the boat from drifting back into shore. This should float just off the bottom.


----------



## thinwater

*Still sunk, still scrappin'*

Yeah, she's sideways, but I'm still in the game, swingin' as hard as I can. I have contacted some people who are as concerned about the fate of this boat, and the dozens like her that litter the creeks around Charleston, as anyone but with an important difference - they understand that no one will do for free what a salvage company would charge $3000 - $5000 for, and that with just a little bit of help something good for all of the low country can happen. I am working hard to make it happen this weekend; I'll be sure to post here when the good news is delivered.

John


----------



## casioqv

thinwater said:


> Yeah, she's sideways, but I'm still in the game, swingin' as hard as I can.


I'm really looking forward to hearing how it goes!


----------



## CBinRI

mallo said:


> Well someone I know was very lucky&#8230;..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They went aground, were rescued off the boat, tide went out, had lunch, tide returned, went back aboard and floated off again!!!! I suppose it can happen to anyone, I know of three other similar instances two of them along the same line as the original poster&#8230;.. it can happen.
> 
> P.S. Smack I will tell the other story when I make some time to type it up, I am currently trying to get out sailing!!!!!


That's one helluva tide!


----------



## thinwater

*OMG, it's BAAAaaack!*

The resurrection of S. V. Distant Star is ON AGAIN! I have gotten a couple of contributions in equipment and she comes up this Saturday 8/29. Meet at Limehouse Landing at 0800 (low tide is 1100) we'll be out at the boat by 0900. If anyone has or can get a trash pump, please let me know either here or by PM. A couple of boats would be terrific. If we have too many people at once, we work in shifts. I'd rather have helpers and not want 'em, than to want 'em and not have 'em!

Remember, this won't be a 2 hour project. I'm thinking we spend 2 hours stuffing floats inside and an hour making sure we have as many as we need where we need them. By then, it's noon already and the tide is rising. I suspect she''l start to come off the bottom around 3, floating at 4, pumped by 5. THEN we have to tow her.

If you can't come out 'til 12 or 2 or 4, fine, help when and how you can. And bring an appropriate PFD - I don't have time to duct tape a bag to each guy who bumps his head. Wear water shoes or ratty sneakers, and bring gloves - she's a slimy mess and will get worse as soon as we start dripping water on her.

I know, it sounds like fun. Who's in?

John


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## cnc33voodoo

Bring chainsaws.


----------



## thinwater

*Plan ahaed and check your plan for errors..........*

I wouldn't leave home without a trash pump in the truck, but if I have 3 people saying they can bring one, and I believe that they will be there, I might change my stance. I have had a generous donation of more than a dozen mattress sized bags which should be enough to stand DS on her keel, and I have back-ups for additional flotation if needed. Also, I have accepted a couple of offers for boats to get there and do the actual work.

I hope for the best and plan for the worst. I believe that people are basically good and basically lazy, and I have a lifetime of victories and disappointments to prove my point either way.

I will be there Sat a.m., with at LEAST one trash pump - you?

John


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## sailingfool

cnc33voodoo said:


> Bring chainsaws.


I disagree, a depth charge is needed.


----------



## MMR

*You forgot*

Video camera.

Even better, web cam


----------



## mallo

CBinRI said:


> That's one helluva tide!


HI CBinRI
Yes it is one helluva tide, we can get on a spring tide 40ft rise and fall!!
it makes for interesting sailing..... On Friday we were off one of our headlands near to us, we were sailing along at 4.5Kts whilst covering 11Kts over the ground, you have to get the tides right&#8230;.


----------



## mallo

thinwater said:


> The resurrection of S. V. Distant Star is ON AGAIN! I have gotten a couple of contributions in equipment and she comes up this Saturday 8/29. Meet at Limehouse Landing at 0800 (low tide is 1100) we'll be out at the boat by 0900. If anyone has or can get a trash pump, please let me know either here or by PM. A couple of boats would be terrific. If we have too many people at once, we work in shifts. I'd rather have helpers and not want 'em, than to want 'em and not have 'em!
> 
> Remember, this won't be a 2 hour project. I'm thinking we spend 2 hours stuffing floats inside and an hour making sure we have as many as we need where we need them. By then, it's noon already and the tide is rising. I suspect she''l start to come off the bottom around 3, floating at 4, pumped by 5. THEN we have to tow her.
> 
> If you can't come out 'til 12 or 2 or 4, fine, help when and how you can. And bring an appropriate PFD - I don't have time to duct tape a bag to each guy who bumps his head. Wear water shoes or ratty sneakers, and bring gloves - she's a slimy mess and will get worse as soon as we start dripping water on her.
> 
> I know, it sounds like fun. Who's in?
> 
> John


Hi John
Just something to watch out for, depending on how much you stuff floatation gear inside and how the deck to hull joint is made be careful that you don't split the hull/deck joint and end up with the two separate parts, and a mast in the middle of it all, it might be better to remove the mast first and take that weight and hassle out of the equation, how is the deck to hull joint made? Is it deck stepped or a keel steeped mast (deck stepped may help) don't forget the deck is designed to take the weight of people, water and the mast (if deck stepped) not the lift of the air bags!!!
I wish you luck and would be there if I could, sorry but I can't&#8230;..


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## Capnblu

You can fill the boat with as much crap as you want, your idea is flawed. seal all of the openings that are under water, pump the water out. It will float. See my previous posts for your solution.


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## thinwater

*Ingredients for success*

Everyone --

I'm about 72 hours away from raising this boat and so far I have 2 people (counting me) and zero boats to go there. If anyone can help out, please let me know ASAP. Thanks.

As far as ripping the top off, yes, it is a risk. I will spread the bags out so that the load (lift) is spread out as much as possible. Mast is keel stepped, so it passes through the deck, making removal a bit harder IMO.

The whole point is to get it vertical so that it can be pumped. I don't need to lift it out of the water by the cabin top, just get the gunwales even with the water. We will plug every hole we can find when the tide is out.

If you're in the area, you don't want to miss this show!

John


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## thinwater

*Danny dodger*

It looks like 'Danny' will miss the coast and be off Cape Hatteras by midnight Friday. Plan on hot and humid, a typical Charleston forecast which you can use today, tomorrow, Sunday, Monday, etc.

John


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## boofus

this thread needs more pictures... success or fail you need to post an honest pictorial of your efforts

better yet someone needs to be covertly snapping away, because you're right it will be quite a show


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## JagsBch

Capnblu said:


> You can fill the boat with as much crap as you want, your idea is flawed. seal all of the openings that are under water, pump the water out. It will float. See my previous posts for your solution.


It really is that simple, generator, sump pump, and an anchor wrapped around your wench and set across the bank to help pull you off during high tide.


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## KismetP362

*Good luck, here is what I would do...*

Hope it works out for you.

I have some experience with this and your biggest challenge is going to be breaking the suction on the bottom, especially if the keel has oozed into the mud very far. Here is my take:

Bring with you: Trash pump, 12ea plastic 55gal drum (no lid), 2ea scuba tanks with hose, friend with beefy motor boat.

Step 1) On a falling tide, grab her bow and spin her around so the bow is pointed out to sea. Any old ocean going powerboat with some good HP will do.

NOTE: Step 1 is only good if she will spin. If she's stuck, well, get her to spin some how. Also, take a look at how she is sitting after spun. You may not have to do much more.

Step 2) Let the tide fall, when low, use a rented Pump (big one) to get as much water out as you can. Use some hefty line to make a cradle under the hull, Remember to lash them to each other fore and aft of the keel as well so they don't slip off. Attach the 55 Gal drums on the low side of the boat. I (about 4 inches down from the top, poke/drill a hole and use this as an attachment point) Then spend the remaining hours mucking out the mud and whatever else you want to do inside to lose weight.

Step 3) Let the tide come in. As the barrels get wet, try your best to keep them upright so they don't fill ALL the way up with water. As each barrel takes some weight, walk/wade around and put as much air in as each will take when it spills out your done. This should get her standing upright. From there it should be cake.

Here is why I think the way I do:

1 each 55 gallon drum will displace approximately 440 pounds in fresh water.
One 55 gallon drum holds 7.5 -ish Cubic feet of air.
One scuba tank holds 77 Cubic feet of air.

So, your 12 rigged Drums will be able to lift about 5200 pounds. That's almost half your total displacement.

However, all bets are off if there is suction to break. Then, well, you'll just have to get creative. Wish I was there with you.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow - very cool site Kismet! Looks like you're definitely the go-to-guy for this kind of advice!

Great job on your boat.


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## KismetP362

Thanks, the salvage thing is fun but dealing with the constant problems above and beyond the normal boat stuff is a huge pain.


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## smackdaddy

Kis - have you seen the "Free Albin-Vega" thread. You might be able to give some great insight on that issue in that thread...if you haven't already.


----------



## chandlerman

KismetP362 said:


> Thanks, the salvage thing is fun but dealing with the constant problems above and beyond the normal boat stuff is a huge pain.


First, I'll confess that unless it's something fairly critical, I'm more of the, "I can fix it, or I can sail...it'll still be broken next week." type of sailor, so my hat is off to you for doing it right. Maybe my boat will be the one in your next photo series as a result, but I

Can I ask you a few questions about your adventure?

First, how long was Kismet underwater? And would you guesstimate that it's been significantly more break-fix/small stuff than the average boat? Did you do things like replace the wiring throughout during the refit?

I don't know that I would ever take on a salvage boat myself--I barely have enough time for the non-salvage one I already own--but it's definitely an interesting topic.

Finally, I thank you for documenting and photographing things on the Web for all of us to enjoy.


----------



## thinwater

*Whatever floats my boat!*

Kismet, all:

Thanks for the pointers. I will print out some of this information so that I can refer to it on the fly. The anecdotal evidence suggests that mud is not as big a concern as first thought. The bottom is not solid muck but more a mat of logs and branches with muck in between. The keel is not buried, more like sitting on the bottom.

It may be possible to pump out more water than comes in, to float her straight away, but that might be complicated by water coming from places we cannot reach - broken ports, drains and thru-hulls, and even the main hatch/companionway being half under water at low tide. If we can just close the doors and windows and pump, GREAT, but I suspect that if it were that easy, it would have been done already.

Instead, I think I need to fill as much of the cabin, v-berth, and lazzarette areas as possible with float bags (if I had a cradle to use these bags outside, I would), pump them up and let the rising tide float her upright. With the 6000 lb keel, if I can produce about 6000 lb of flotation above the keel, she should at least take on the familiar keel down/mast up aspect. However, the cabin top is about 2 or 3 feet above the gunwales, so filling the cabin may RIGHT her, but it will be the bags in the v-berth and under the cockpit that will LIFT her to the point where we can pump faster than the water comes in through the holes we couldn't find or plug.

If it appears that there is suction holding her sideways, twisting on the hull with a couple of tons of lift ought to break her free. Also, we have some 55 gallon drums (steel) that I plan to join with 2 x 4's positioned at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock on the ends to create a frame around the cylinder(s). This gives us something to tie to (ever tried to tie off a drum?) and a longer moment of flotation leverage (one end has to go down 4 feet to flip it, instead of 18 inches), sort of like a pontoon. This CAN be tied to the hull to lift the entire boat by a cradle strap. Also, I can trap a few bags in the framework between the drums to add lift.

So, that's the plan, though other techniques may come into play. If you are near Charleston and want to help, or even just watch and take pictures, please by all means, come join us. Be a hero and bring a boat and a pump.

John


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## smackdaddy

C'mon John! We're pulling for ye!

Float that baby!!!!


----------



## thinwater

*Offer to trade?*

Thanks, Smack. No, I'll give you 20 "atta boy's" and "you can DO it's" for one guy with a jon boat Saturday morning, and 10 for a trash pump. In lieu of "atta boy's" you can substitute an equal number of beers.

John


----------



## KismetP362

*the joys of salvage.*



chandlerman said:


> First, I'll confess that unless it's something fairly critical, I'm more of the, "I can fix it, or I can sail...it'll still be broken next week." type of sailor, so my hat is off to you for doing it right. Maybe my boat will be the one in your next photo series as a result, but I
> 
> Can I ask you a few questions about your adventure?
> 
> First, how long was Kismet underwater? And would you guesstimate that it's been significantly more break-fix/small stuff than the average boat? Did you do things like replace the wiring throughout during the refit?
> 
> I don't know that I would ever take on a salvage boat myself--I barely have enough time for the non-salvage one I already own--but it's definitely an interesting topic.
> 
> Finally, I thank you for documenting and photographing things on the Web for all of us to enjoy.


chandlerman: I have the same Sail VS. Fix = Sail thing going on. Where I get all my time is that I live in Maine and if you want you're "boating fix", you better have a list of projects to work on while she's out of the water. That's where the website got started.. It was a monster TO DO LIST that got away from me.

She was underwater for 3 days. The wiring was toast where there was current.. Mainly the battery terminals on both the battery end and the switch. The breakers were all toast and most of the large gauge wire was toast. The big problem is that moisture wicks up into braided wire. Not usually a problem unless submerged. Other than that, it was mostly consmetics to repair.

As to more problems than the usual, YES and no. a lot more projects and living with things broken or not how I want them. For instance, all of the engine gauges were trashed, it only had idiot lights anyway so I installed a (salvage from another boat) panel with VDO gauges. Now I need to figure out the senders for the engine.. still not there.

Underwater, Varnish will gell up but when dried off it will ooze back into shape (Flat-ish) as long as it wasn't touched while gooey. That's where this picture was fun, the marks you see on the wood are from my [email protected]$$ swimming around in the boat while she was under.
















just takes some 5F5 and varnish. A bit of time and a whole lot of vodka. What more do you really need in life?

I just got back from Qatar about an hour ago and I'm waiting to hear what happened with this salvage. Probably underway as I type. I can't wait to see pic's. Good luck guys.


----------



## thinwater

*Trouble in River City*

OK, my borrowed boat had 4 flat tires on the way here, and by the time Mark and I found another one to borrow/rent, we didn't have much time. Also, the gas cylinders I brought only pump up about 2 bags each - we got 4 inflated, abour 1/4 of what I want.

If anyone in the Charleston area has a small gas powered compressor (construction site type), please post here ASAP. Cylinders of compressed air (divers tank?) would work also, if it can be hooked to a regular air line or has a barbed outlet to clamp a hose to. This is do-able but I'm gonna need some back-up while I'm out of my home territory.

Thanks,

John


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## poopdeckpappy

Kismet, I was checking out your website, is Erin & Bruno ( Love machine 5 ) Friends or Family ?? They were slipped a couple down from me until I moved. btw it's Erin & Bruno +1 now


----------



## KismetP362

Erin is my sister. Erin, Bruno and Dieago are family. We went to their wedding in france and shortly after they sailed back over to San Dieago. (via texas for an overland route because the price of the cannal has skyrocketed) 

Yup, We're a boating family. I was on my parents boat last night installing his radar and tweeking his electrical system.


----------



## chandlerman

KismetP362 said:


> Yup, We're a boating family. I was on my parents boat last night installing his radar and tweeking his electrical system.


You're lucky. I grew up in a Car Freak family and was the black sheep who never cared about them except as essential transportation growing up in the 'burbs.

Now, I live in The City and own a sailboat instead of a car, a much better waste of my money  .


----------



## poopdeckpappy

KismetP362 said:


> Erin is my sister. Erin, Bruno and Dieago are family..


Right on, never spoke much with Bruno, but spoke often with Erin and Dieago's a cutie, We wish them the best


----------



## thinwater

*Lessons learned*

The rescue on the Stono was a "learning experience" if somewhat less successful than I had hoped. The tide doesn't stay low for very long, so loading and filling the air bags has to be done quickly. Looking at it philosophically, even if we hadn't had to find a boat, and even if the tide had been lower longer, we didn't have enough bottled air to pump up more bags, so we were at a dead end anyway.

On the bright side, I ran into a sailing pal this afternoon and he totally wants to be part of this. Bonus round: he has a Boston Whaler 19 and likes Charleston. Looks like in two weeks I'll head down there and take another stab at it. Anyone who wants to join in, let me know now as volunteer slots are strictly limited!

John


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## KismetP362

If the whaler is big enough, you may want to look at a (HomeDepot Rented) Generator running a rented air compressor. For that matter you can do some research and see how big a GPH 110V pump you can get. 

On a more important note: do you have any pictures to post from your attempt?


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## thinwater

*Air pumps, water pumps*

No, we didn't get any pictures - two guys rushing to beat a rising, ripping tide doesn't leave much time to document the event. And it is my opinion that photos are not more important than results, though it might be nice to share the experience.

We could have rented a gas powered compressor, but they only put out about 10 cfm. Now, with the air stored in the tank, we might be able to blow up a bag every minute (about what it was taking us with the bottled gas) but it seemed like a heavy, expensive, noisy way to do things. I did have a gas powered 180 gpm water pump in the car if we had righted her.

John


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## TSOJOURNER

*Photoshop?*

Come on, how could it balance like that?


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## NCC320

Thinwater,

As you found out this weekend, your window to do what you want is limited. Having multiple inflatable bags but only air to blow up two tells lots about your chances for success and the planning/preparation you have done. If you have any chance of pulling this off, you need to do some very exacting preparation. Think every step out in detail, and for each step of the way, have a detailed alternate to get around that problem if it doesn't work. Write down and review again and again the plans. Make sure you have every piece of equipment you need on hand in advance. Check each one out to make sure it works, and that it will do what you want. Couple up every component to make sure some missing or incompatible fitting is not going to sabotage your plans. If you need tow boats, or labor, make sure that you have firm commitments to be there. Just putting out an appeal is not likely to do it. Know exactly how you will attach gear to the boat so as not to damage it more. Bring more line than you think you will use...too much is not a problem, too little is. Same with inflation bags, drums,etc. and make sure you have a powerful tow boat....a jon boat and small engine in't going to cut it. From the pictures, my guess is that you have about a 10-15% chance of pulling this off, so you've got to do everything possible to make the effort work. 

I, for one, can't imagine why you are doing this, since you're likely to spend far more on this boat to get it usable than if you bought one that is already afloat or in a storage yard. In any case, good luck, but please do the advance preparation.


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## TSOJOURNER

Don't listen to these guys. Just go out there with some friends, a cooler of beer, maybe some rope or something with some random air tools, and just wing it.


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## smackdaddy

I agree with bpot - have fun with it. As a matter of fact, how many kegs would you have to float to get this baby up? Just keep stuffing the empties into the cabin. Now THAT could be a party! I bet your turnout would improve dramatically! 

And it would be freakin' epic to hear of a filthy Pearson 36 found adrift 5 miles off shore with 25 muddy salvagers passed out on her decks.

Keep at it dude!


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## JomsViking

ROFL :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher



cardiacpaul said:


> Hey, I know of an Albin Vega not too far from you...


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## NCC320

Thinwater,

A couple of additinal thoughts you may want to consider:

What is the depth of the water at low tide and at high tide on the days you will be working. To get maximum working time, you should start your work as early as possible, ie. at maximum tide or before. Do what you can then, as the water ebbs, more of the boat will be exposed and the more you can do. This gives a working window of 12 hrs. before the next high tide. It miight mean working at some odd hours.

The boat is on it's side. Unless the water at high tide is approximatelly 10 ft., she is unlikely to come upright. Tlhis boat is full of water and even if your air bags are enough the float the hull, keep in mind that she is not going to be on her waterline, but more likely with decks awash or near awash. That means the keel is going to stay on the bottom even then if the water is less than 10 ft. (assuming 5 ft draft + 3-4 ft. freeboard). And all this assumes no real suction has built up between the mud and hull (somewhat unlikely).

Those hatches and any other openings are going to overwhelm your pump if you are not careful. Every open hatch or other opening needs a piece of plywood securely screwed down. These won't be water tight, but they will limit the inflow. Later, filling the holes in the fiberglass will be a small issue.

Since the water is not likely to be deep enough even at high tide to float her upright, you are going to need to keep her heeled way over. The normal way to do this is to have a boat or large anchor with a line to the masthead to keep it heeled on her side. But this is going to put lots of forces on the rig and boat. I recall that the shrouds had questionable attachment points in the beginning, so some sort of temporary rigging (low stretch -not nylon, maybe steel cable) lines around the keel and over the sides ?) is going to need to be rigged. How will you keep her heeled over?

If she is aground, the outboard is not going to have enough power to pull her off, so you have to have her floating. Otherwise, the outboard is just going to churn water. I watched this happen in our creek a few weeks ago as someone tried to pull a grounded boat (that was just barely grounded and largely floating). It didn't work. On the other hand, last year there was another sail boat that broke loose in a storm and went amost completely out of the normal water levels onto the shore. A pier construction contractor took his pile driver barge and pulled that boat off and refloated it. The difference was that the barge has two spuds (steel pilings) that the operator drove into the bottom first. Now there was something to pull against. If you really want the sunken boat, perhaps you might contact some of the contractors in that area with that kind of equipment to help you. Between the air bags, pumps, and the barge with spuds, you might get her off. It'll cost something, so determine this in advance, but it might be the cheapest way.

As I said before, from an economic standpoint, I don't see why you are doing this, but in any event, good luck and hope the above is useful as you refine your plans and rehearse how you are going to attempt to do it.


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## sailortjk1

If it was an easy task or one that the unprofessional could handle, it would have been done by now. I applaud the effort but I am skeptical of the outcome.


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## thinwater

*By the numbers....*

First of all, if it was easy, it would have been done already.

Second, if it was cheap, it would have been done already.

Third, I had someone committed to bringing a boat, but he hit some hiway debris and blew truck and trailer tires, couldn't make it. I found out about this at 2230 Friday evening, with an 0800 Saturday start planned.

I imagine that if I had started knocking on doors at 2300 Friday, I would have had better chances of being shot than finding a boat for the next day. So I got up nice and early and scoped out the area, talking with the few people conscious at 0700 on a weekend. By 9:30, I had located a boat to rent, close to the target.

You don't think that's a trick? Drive to a marina 4 hours from where you live, on the outskirts of the populated area, and give it a shot.

Mark drove the skiff to the landing and we loaded it and got to the sunken boat about 10:30, a couple of hours later than planned. We worked on stuffing the bags into the cabin and got four (not two) of them inflated before the rising tide stopped us at the same time we ran out of bottled air.

I appreciate the practical tips - really I do - but this boat is missing most of her hatches and is on her side 50% under water (that would put the lower rail almost 6 feet down) at low tide (range is about 5 feet), with her keel on the high side and her mast pointed toward the deep water. With 9 or 10 feet of total water, I still plan to right her with floats, and pump her out if the rails come to water level. If not, I'll drag her as close to shore as possible, lean her toward land, and pump her out when the tide falls again.

Would I have turned down back-up boats? No way, but that wasn't an option. No boat = no time to work. The limited volume of compressed air in the bottles was a surprise (thought I had plenty, even overkill), one that I will overcome. The distance is a problem that can't be solved, and I have to work with the tides that nature offers.

Or I could just say 'screw it' and go play. There are plenty of exits off this road --

1) Why bother?
2) Too far.
3) Too dirty
4) Too difficult
5) Too risky
6) Boat didn't arrive.
7) Ran out of air.
8) Cut hands on barnacles
9) Spent $$$ for gas, motel, food, pump, etc.
10) <fill in YOUR best reason here>

Oh, and my personal favorite,

11) No help from anyone except Mark, including all of those who are fond of pointing out that it is his problem to solve and there are too many boats in the marshes and someone oughta do something about this and the owners should be fined and we need a tougher law and DNR needs to do their job and...............

........if anyone wants to help, I plan on another attempt, with better tides, more air, and (I damn sure hope) a boat to use all day from sun-up to sundown. September 12, 13 I think; check back for more info.

John


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## smackdaddy

thinwater said:


> Oh, and my personal favorite,
> 
> 11) No help from anyone except Mark, including all of those who are fond of pointing out that it is his problem to solve and there are too many boats in the marshes and someone oughta do something about this and the owners should be fined and we need a tougher law and DNR needs to do their job and...............


That's the truth. Hang in there John and Mark. It would be truly cool to see you guys pull this off. At least you're giving it a good go.


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## Valiente

I can't believe this thread is still running.

Did Distant Star ever post again about the abandonment of his boat?

As for the posters attempting to salvage her, good luck. That, skill, patience, and money should cover the rest.


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## smackdaddy

Val, I took from Thin's post above that Mark IS Distant Star and is helping with the salvage. If so, that's pretty cool.


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## Capnblu

Thin, with all due respect, do you not see the fatal flaw in your plan? Your inflated bags will not force any water out, or displace it. Go buy yourself a new robertson screw driver (square drive if you are American), and a box of screws and some plywood, cover any openings that are under water, and throw a pump inside and remove the water. The boat will float. fixing the few holes where you screwed the plywood down will be a minor repair compared to the rest of this. Lift bags are only going to help if they are placed UNDER the hull securely in deep enough water to have an effect. Inside the hull, they will merely sit on top of the existing water, and not displace enough water to ever get DS vertical, unless the tide comes up 20'. even then the deck will probably fail, and down she would go again.


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## mallo

*Lifting*

Hi Thinwater

I am saying this without visiting the site so please go gentle, having been involved in lifting our boat, I don't think you have enough rise and fall of tide to do what you are trying to do.

I would go along the lines of Capnblu and others, and try and block the openings off, I would cut some plywood blanks 2" bigger than the hole you want to block and with some threaded bar and a strong back fit them they don't necessarily need to be 100% water tight, but the dryer the better.

You can fit several strong backs where you have bigger holes, but the pressure of the water trying to enter the hull will hold the ply on harder, and then at low water fire up the trash pump(s) and pump her out (it might take more than one) the hull needs to be in one piece without any other holes and sea cocks closed.

You may have to block off the companion way to get her to float upright, you may have to open up another way in?

As has been said before bags will only work if they are fitted low enough to generate lift, they are for boats that are deeply under water see the photo (our boat), the cockpit was still under 6ft of water even with the bags&#8230;.










I also saw a local boat sink by the same manor, (i.e. keel lifted, past 90deg and boat sank due to cockpit filling and companion way), she was in much deeper water, but they bagged her again the cockpit was well below the sea level, the original plan was to put her against the Quay on a falling tide, they didn't make it (she was so low in the water) so she dried out, they managed to re-float her on the incoming tide, whilst pumping he out got her upright, and towed home.

You could fit the ply patches the days leading up to the big tide, just leaving the last ones to fit on the day (having tested they fit), then the day you want to go for it just fit the last hatches an pump like mad, use her natural buoyancy to lift her, you may need to attach the bags to the keel to lift part of this at the same time, and/or pull her with a powerful heavy boat.

Good luck I wish I could help more but are along away from you&#8230;.


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## smackdaddy

Mallo! You're killing me!! You've got great pics and everything!!!

What the hell happened? That is freaking amazing!


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## scottyt

thinwater dont forget the stretchyness of nylon line. use it to your advantage.

go out 200 feet from the boat and set a large danforth anchor. then run 3/4 or 5/8 line to the boat. use a come along to pull and stretch the line, and i mean like 2000 lbs of force with the come along. then as the various waves and tides come in the line will try to pull the boat straight away from shore. the line will do the work with out you even being there, you might need to tighten it a few times over a few days. this uses the stretch of the line and any tides to help you out.


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## timebandit

Thinwater

Not much to add but if your using compressed air tanks you might think about renting a couple of large co2 tanks from a welding supply .

Way more air? than hi pressure air tanks.


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## mallo

*Off topic sorry*

Hi Smackdaddy
Sorry I didn't mean to kill you!!!! , I have stared typing the accident up, it was about and 24 month project to get the boat back, to strip her, repair her, paint her and re-build her, inc re-wire, re-plumb etc.
I have loads of photos, some of nothing in the boat!!!!!
Unfortunately my mother died of cancer 6 Months prior to this happening, my farther and myself (we are a very close family) were very very upset at loosing first a close family member, then our second love and joy, the boat in such a short time&#8230;.
He was very depressed for a while, but getting the boat back and working on her to re-build her was good, it kept both of us busy for a while!! Everyone around us were brilliant and supportive, and we got through it.
We now have a 70 year old boat in near mint condition, in fact the surveyor said in his final report that the boat was now in better condition than when she was built, he meant the painting systems etc.
I am about 1/3 of the way through writing it up, but I have been away sailing (hope to go for another week next week) and I am currently trying to catch up with work before I go sailing again .
Best wishes to all


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## thinwater

*Boat Rescue? Maybe, if....*

I have been planning on going to Charleston this Friday to make another attempt at raising Distant Star, but I'm back in a familiar rut - I don't have a work boat to reach the subject boat! Does anyone in Charleston have or have access to a small skiff or jon boat that I can use this weekend? I plan to start a daybreak Sat. 'cause high tide is 9:44 a.m.

Without it, I am, like SVDS, dead in the water. Any takers, helpers, volunteers?

Thanks,

John


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## smackdaddy

mallo said:


> Hi Smackdaddy
> Sorry I didn't mean to kill you!!!! , I have stared typing the accident up, it was about and 24 month project to get the boat back, to strip her, repair her, paint her and re-build her, inc re-wire, re-plumb etc.
> I have loads of photos, some of nothing in the boat!!!!!
> Unfortunately my mother died of cancer 6 Months prior to this happening, my farther and myself (we are a very close family) were very very upset at loosing first a close family member, then our second love and joy, the boat in such a short time&#8230;.
> He was very depressed for a while, but getting the boat back and working on her to re-build her was good, it kept both of us busy for a while!! Everyone around us were brilliant and supportive, and we got through it.
> We now have a 70 year old boat in near mint condition, in fact the surveyor said in his final report that the boat was now in better condition than when she was built, he meant the painting systems etc.
> I am about 1/3 of the way through writing it up, but I have been away sailing (hope to go for another week next week) and I am currently trying to catch up with work before I go sailing again .
> Best wishes to all


No worries Mallo. It just looks like such an incredible story.

More importantly - I'm terribly sorry for your loss. That's devastating. I lost my mother to cancer when I was 14. It's great that you guys had such an all-consuming project to put yourselves into - and one that had such a special payoff as this.

Thanks for the update dude. I'll be patient - sort of.


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## mallo

Hi Smackdaddy

Sorry to hear about your Mum too, it is not a nice experience to go through, especially for you so young.

It was good in some ways to have the project of re-building the boat; it was a great day when she was craned in over the Quay side and onto the hard, and then waiting for the tide to come back in for her to float&#8230;.

I am off sailing for a couple of weeks, from tomorrow so wont be around, but will leave you with one last photo, its one of the inside (from forward looking aft), having stripped everything out, sandblasted and painted with five coats of epoxy.

Just to keep you interested Smack


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## MorganPaul

> Just to keep you interested Smack


Good. Keep torturing Smack  .

It's gonna be a hell of a story when you finish writing it up.

Happy sailing man.


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## thinwater

*Can you hear me?*

Is there anyone in the Charleston area who has or can use a small boat this Saturday to try again to raise Distant Star? High tide is 9:44 a.m. so I can't start my day looking for a boat.

Anyone?

Thanks,

John


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## boofus

Not to be total jerk, 
But if you cant raise the resources to float the thing, how are you going to finance the rebuild? I say this because of my own experience dumping many many thousands into a "project" boat, only to stand back and wonder where the money went, and scared to death of how much more it is going to take to get to where I want to be. I easily spent a grand on epoxy and glass just to plug a couple old throughulls, rebuild my engine bed and do a little re-tabbing.... There was a thread recently about bright eyed, optimistic cheap-boat "suckers", and I couldn't agree more, because I fell for it myself. There is a blinding stupor that falls over people as they are consumed with their dreams. Save up buy a boat that is in good shape and go sailing....


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## MorganPaul

> Not to be total jerk,
> But if you cant raise the resources to float the thing, how are you going to finance the rebuild?


You are not a jerk. This is a really good point. I think this talk of getting her out of the mud is a pipe dream.


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## thinwater

*No arguement here....*

Boofus --

That post doesn't make you a jerk, total or partial. I am pretty sure that the P-36 is beyond reasonable repair. The reason I continue to pursue this salvage has several parts: 1) if I can't raise and repair, maybe I can use some of the parts when I do find a better starting point, 2) if I sell a few of the parts that I don't need, it might help me get to a better starting point, 3) I am curious about what it takes to raise a vessel in this situation, and 4) I agreed to try to raise her, and I am not the sort to abandon anything at the first obstacle. Besides, there is a veritable chorus of people singing the "Charleston Harbor Sunken Sailboat Blues" - I know the words and I'm trying to learn the tune.

Now, if what I wanted was a skiff, I'd find one. That would negate the notion of raising a sailboat and then what would you have to read about? Ultimately, if I raise a bad sailboat, I'm closer to a good one.

Now about that skiff.....

John


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## AdamLein

I don't think I would buy the parts off this boat. Maybe the anchor? Maybe some bronze stuff?

I have enough trouble as it is keeping my _dry_ boat in sellable condition.



thinwater said:


> The reason I continue to pursue this salvage has several parts: 1) if I can't raise and repair, maybe I can use some of the parts when I do find a better starting point, 2) if I sell a few of the parts that I don't need, it might help me get to a better starting point,


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## weephee

Hi John. Were you successful in getting a work boat for this weekend. If I didn't live so far away, I would be there to help. Canada is 18 hours away. I think what you are trying to do is admirable and even with all the critics you keep trying. I wish you the best of luck. Please don't give up and please keep us posted. Not everyone thinks you're wasting your time. Good luck
Larry


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## cnc33voodoo

AdamLein said:


> I don't think I would buy the parts off this boat. Maybe the anchor? Maybe some bronze stuff?
> 
> I have enough trouble as it is keeping my _dry_ boat in sellable condition.


You do realise this boat was at anchor before it sunk right?.

Thinwater, As much as I wish you luck on this pointless mission, I think we will see the titanic raised before this boat.
The fact is, if you dont have the money to raise this boat professionally than you surely dont have the cash do do anything with it once you get it up.
Anything you get from salvage will not cover the costs you will accumulate getting it out and storing it.
Once you strip it what are you going to do with the rest of it?
Do you know the costs involved in the disposal?
The only thing getting this boat out of the mud will do is get the bonehead owner out of trouble and you into it.
I dont see a single reward other than saying you did it in this situation.
I would like to know what you plan do, if you have a plan, once its up?
Has the original owner given you the title for the boat?
Are you sure he ever had the title?
The last owner was a dreamer and didnt understand the responsibility involved in owning a 36 foot sailboat and look what happened.
Please dont follow in his footsteps.
You should put your efforts into a boat that isnt sunk and with your determination you will have a nice boat sooner.


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## Boasun

The poor man's method of refloating a boat... This is a simple method.
Go to a truckstop and get a couple dozen trucktire innerTubes. 
Place the tubes in the appropriate spaces and inflate. This will displace the water in that space and lighten your vessel.
After you have refloated your vessel and got it on the hard for repairs... you can take those innerTubes and go to ski areas and rent them out to people who want to go tubing down snow covered mountain sides. 
Thus you will recoup the money you spent buying those tubes in the first place. 

Any questions??


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## Pilot11

bump! Any report from this weekend?


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## thinwater

*Still there*

Nothing got done this weekend because I didn't have a boat to reach the sinker. I have plans to try again in 2 weeks, when the tides are right enough, but I'm dependent on my pal with the Boston Whaler. Don't wait for an invitation - let me know if you can and will help on Saturday the 26th.

John


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## artbyjody

thinwater said:


> Boofus --
> 
> That post doesn't make you a jerk, total or partial. I am pretty sure that the P-36 is beyond reasonable repair. The reason I continue to pursue this salvage has several parts: 1) if I can't raise and repair, maybe I can use some of the parts when I do find a better starting point, 2) if I sell a few of the parts that I don't need, it might help me get to a better starting point, 3) I am curious about what it takes to raise a vessel in this situation, and 4) I agreed to try to raise her, and I am not the sort to abandon anything at the first obstacle. Besides, there is a veritable chorus of people singing the "Charleston Harbor Sunken Sailboat Blues" - I know the words and I'm trying to learn the tune.
> 
> Now, if what I wanted was a skiff, I'd find one. That would negate the notion of raising a sailboat and then what would you have to read about? Ultimately, if I raise a bad sailboat, I'm closer to a good one.
> 
> Now about that skiff.....
> 
> John


Give it up.. it is a lost cause..


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## tager

Ignore the naysayers. Do it for yourself. It can be done. It is not complicated. Just pump the water out of it. It will still be a boat! It will take a lot of work to make it perfect, but it won't take a lot of work to make it sail! It won't even be all that expensive. 

Here's one more reason to raise the boat from the dead. It is the respectful thing to do to nature. 

Why create the waste? Why support the throwaway culture? You could just haul it out and go sell it or sink it or scrap it. It would be awful to the earth though. I think buying new boats is unconscionable when there are boats lke this that need to be revived. Bugger all the voodoo economics lectures.


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## KeelHaulin

tager said:


> It will take a lot of work to make it perfect, but it won't take a lot of work to make it sail! It won't even be all that expensive.
> 
> Here's one more reason to raise the boat from the dead. It is the respectful thing to do to nature. It would be awful to the earth though. I think buying new boats is unconscionable when there are boats lke this that need to be revived. Bugger all the voodoo economics lectures.


Sorry, but it will take much more than a little work to make that stinking hulk that's full of mud float; let alone sail.

I hate to tell you this but all things have a lifespan whether it is a person or a car or a boat. You can keep throwing money at an old car until you are spending more than a monthly payment on a new one (and you can't find parts anymore); or you can send it to the scrap yard and get a new one. It makes little difference to "nature" what you do; because the earth is the mother of all recycling machines. I'm much more concerned about the CO2 levels (fossil fuels) and the long term effects than I am about old sunken boats that -could- be restored.

If it were not for all of the new boats that were made; we who own used boats would not be able to afford them. Somebody had to have bought it new; so it makes little difference if you were the first time buyer or the 10'th owner (aside from the amount you paid and the amount of maintenance you will pay).

Marinas in my area send several boats a month (each) to the wrecking yard; and these boats are floating, not sunken mud filled wrecks. Why are they doing this? Because there is little interest in restoring old boats that need more work and money than they are valued at so they can't even give them away.

I hope DBW gets it hauled out or at least the mast removed before someone else hits it and gets injured. I could care less what happens to the hull if it is not blocking the waterway.


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## cnc33voodoo

tager said:


> Ignore the naysayers. Do it for yourself. It can be done. It is not complicated. Just pump the water out of it. It will still be a boat! It will take a lot of work to make it perfect, but it won't take a lot of work to make it sail! It won't even be all that expensive.
> 
> Here's one more reason to raise the boat from the dead. It is the respectful thing to do to nature.
> 
> Why create the waste? Why support the throwaway culture? You could just haul it out and go sell it or sink it or scrap it. It would be awful to the earth though. I think buying new boats is unconscionable when there are boats lke this that need to be revived. Bugger all the voodoo economics lectures.


From reading a couple of your "thrift" lectures I doubt anyone should take advise from someone who does all their marine shopping at home depot, walmart or the scrapyard.


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## casioqv

cnc33voodoo said:


> From reading a couple of your "thrift" lectures I doubt anyone should take advise from someone who does all their marine shopping at home depot, walmart or the scrapyard.


Why ignore his advice just because he's found lower cost sources of materials? I think Tager's "thrift lectures" are some of the best information I've seen on this forum. Especially the idea of DIY galvanized rigging- which is cheaper, safer, and longer lasting than stainless steel standing rigging although messier and higher maintenance.

Common sense, craftsmanship skills, and some basic raw materials that can be obtained for free or very cheap are all one needs to build or maintain a sailboat. Expensive new stuff is a nice luxury for those who can afford it, but are unnecessary to people who have more time than money, and want to go sailing anyways.


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## casioqv

KeelHaulin said:


> You can keep throwing money at an old car until you are spending more than a monthly payment on a new one (and you can't find parts anymore)


I can't think of a realistic scenario where buying a new car would be cheaper than maintaining an old car yourself. I spend about $1000/year on parts maintaining my 1987 Mercedes 190D Turbo, because it's such a rare car that all of the parts are super expensive and have to be shipped from Germany one at a time (they only made about 1000 of these, and only for one year). I can't imagine a car exists with more expensive parts- perhaps a 30s rolls royce or something? The cheapest new car- a Huyndai accent for example would have monthly payments of at least $200/month. My other car- an old Volvo wagon costs that much per year to maintain.

An old sailboat is even easier, because all of the parts are fairly generic. There's hardly a part on an old fiberglass sailboat where you couldn't adapt a used part from a scrapped boat of another brand for nearly free.

Just last month, I saw an abandoned 25 foot boat that was being towed in by a sheriff, and he let me pull all of the hardware I wanted for free, as spares for my C22.


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## bubb2

casioqv said:


> Especially the idea of DIY galvanized rigging- which is cheaper, safer, and longer lasting than stainless steel standing rigging although messier and higher maintenance.


Avoid galvanized wire. It is less expensive than stainless steel, but it's weaker and stretches more. When the galvanizing inevitably wears off, your wire will rust.


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## casioqv

bubb2 said:


> Avoid galvanized wire. It is less expensive than stainless steel, but it's weaker and stretches more. When the galvanizing inevitably wears off, your wire will rust.


Stainless wire will eventually fail from chloride stress corrosion cracking- without warning, and in as little as 10 years of use depending on conditions (salinity, temperature, tension). Galvanized wire will last MUCH longer, and will not fail without significant visual warning (broken strands and rust). If maintained with a rustproof coating such as linseed oil or lanolin it will last almost indefinitely.

It's only slightly weaker than stainless wire, and can probably be used in the same size/weight under the same conditions- because it's more likely to maintain it's full rated strength over it's lifetime.

Nevertheless, I'll still use stainless wire on my boat. It only costs about $150 for enough 316 stainless wire to re-rig my C22, and it won't make a mess, and causes less chafe.


----------



## weephee

*Well My Day Really Sucked*

Has anyone heard whether the boat was salvaged or just what happened. I think last week was supposed to be the time for another try.


----------



## WheresTheBrakes

*still there*

well.. it's still here.. looked last night and it hasn't moved an inch...

does anyone have a stick of dynamite ??

That's probably the quickest way..


----------



## Bene505

Here's a boat that you wouldn't have to raise:



> FREE Sailboat/Sloop 27' Hunter 1979 - $587 (West Sayvile, NY)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: 2009-10-30, 11:45AM EDT
> Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> PERFECT GREAT SOUTH BAY SAILBOAT!!! Hurry before boat is blocked in by winter storage and I have to pay another winter storage fee!!!! "Moondance" Dry docked for almost a decade, however prior to that there was not one thing wrong with her and she was in perfect working order. You could say she was a casualty of 9/11. Now she needs TLC and probably a new engine because she is filled with rain water due to the shrink wrap being ripped . The perfect Great South Bay boat in that she only draws 4 ft. Fiberglass, 9 ft. beam, sleeps 5, full galley, sails like new. Check out what this boat is going for on the internet. It is literally a steal for someone with the time to buff her back to like new!! The only thing you have to invest is an engine overhaul, or possibly a new one. You can most likely keep her where she is by paying the winter storage in this reputable Full Service Marina. No liens, title is free and clear! I just have to let her go and hope someone else can enjoy her! This is a great opportunity for the right person. Please contact ASAP.
> 
> Location: West Sayvile, NY
> it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PostingID: 1444227620


----------



## KeelHaulin

Hmm... Boat full of water with engine siezed, in a location where the water would have most likely frozen during the last winter. Sounds like a chainsaw is too good for that hull(k) also; and the owner just wants to be free and clear of her...


----------



## Stumpie

midlifesailor said:


> He was just like the chick that wanted to cruise with dogs. Folks with experince cruising all gave reasons why it was a bad idea but the lady could not be disuaded.


Can you post a link to that thread? Thanks.


----------



## Lookin4Freedom

Here you are:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising-liveaboard-forum/29867-cruising-bull-dogs.html

What a sad story. Reading about this after the fact I read thru pages and pages waiting for the happy ending. There isn't one. I will say it is interesting this boat is receiving so much attention, when there are so many abandoned boats around charleston -- some which are probably in better shape; maybe even floating


----------



## Stumpie

So what on earth happened here? Has the story been posted?



mallo said:


>


----------



## primerate84

Does that boat have a self-bailing cockpit?


----------



## JohnRPollard

Stumpie said:


> So what on earth happened here? Has the story been posted?


As far as I know, we haven't heard it yet. Mallo promised to give us the full story when he gets back. Can't remember where he went, but he said he'd come back with the story. Stay tuned.


----------



## jaschrumpf

Stumpie said:


> So what on earth happened here? Has the story been posted?


It looks to me like the students from the Durmstrang Institute are arriving for the next installment of the Triwizard Tournament.


----------



## Stillraining

I believe this is the Puddle boat rescue story..Its a good one if it is.


----------



## smackdaddy

Stumpie said:


> So what on earth happened here? Has the story been posted?


Stumps - Mallo is a very cool dude, and he and his dad saved that boat...believe it or not!

He's promised to post the story in the BFS thread. I'll keep hounding him. It's got to be the best BFS story ever...aside from the flying catamaran.

I keep telling everyone SN has the gnarliest sailors in the world!


----------



## eherlihy

Phew - I just stumbled onto this thread, and read all 10 pages of it...

It seems that SV Distant Star is *still* in Charleston, after almost 2 years. I understand that the owner is broke, and cannot afford to raise her. My heart went out to him and his initial resolve to raise the vessel. Unfortunately, he has since chosen to walk away, causing a hazard to navigation and an eyesore. Cam is correct on his assertion that derelect boats lead to anchoring restrictions.

I don't mean to be harsh, but walking away from a problem that you helped create should neither be condoned, nor tolerated. It seems to me that the best course of action is for the authorities in SC to help him clean up this mess. He should be issued a DNR chainsaw, some supervision from the local state police or sheriff's office (which ever is most appropriate) and have someone from the SC DNR move a dump truck as close as possible to the vessel's current location. If this means putting the truck on a barge, so be it. 

The owner should have to pay a reasonable fee for the hourly use of the saw, truck, and barge. He should then be instructed to get the vessel, and her contents, into the truck in the most efficient manner possible. He should be allowed to call his friends, family, or solicit volunteers from SailNet. However as of XXXX hrs on DD/MM/YYYY the clock starts ticking, and he is responsible for the costs. Ignore this order and go to jail.


----------



## knothead

eherlihy said:


> I don't mean to be harsh, but walking away from a problem that you helped create should neither be condoned, not tolerated.


I agree! Now someone should remind all those countless men who walk away from their marriages and children every day. 

Lets keep things in perspective.


----------



## eherlihy

knothead said:


> I agree! Now someone should remind all those countless men who walk away from their marriages and children every day.
> 
> Lets keep things in perspective.


 Alimony & Child Support are frequently used by the courts in the US to address these issues. Also, it is my understanding is that these can be awarded to either men or women.


----------



## knothead

eherlihy said:


> Alimony & Child Support are frequently used by the courts in the US to address these issues.


Deadbeat dads. "*A July 25 Justice Department study reveals that 6.9 million people - one in 34 adults - were on probation, parole or incarcerated in 2003."

FOXNews.com - In Defense of 'Deadbeat' Dads - Opinion
*


----------



## Stillraining

Hmmm...lets see...one big piece of FG in an estuary compare to millions of shards of FG in and estuary...Hmmm...which one do I want...


----------



## artbyjody

I sent some emails as I grew up there and there is currently a nonprofit that does remove those derelicts... This whole scenario is wrong for all the wrong reasons. But going on two years there is nothing of value left... lets be honest it is a hazard.. end of story.


----------



## eherlihy

*Is this off topic, or is it me?*

  Please remind me what deadbeat dads have to do with SV Distant Star?

  ...And, could I assume that this would apply to women that walk out on their families as well?


----------



## knothead

I'm not sure how much of a navigational hazard it is but I will agree that it is a big piece of litter. 
It'll be removed and indirectly we will all be paying for it. 

My point is only that in the grand scale, the children of those 6.9 million deadbeat dads (and that is only counting the ones that are in jail) are going to be a much bigger problem and cost society much more than a big hunk of mud filled fiberglass sitting in three feet of water.


----------



## knothead

eherlihy said:


> Please remind me what deadbeat dads have to do with SV Distant Star?
> 
> ...And, could I assume that this would apply to women that walk out on their families as well?


No it's not off topic. Where the hell is that fuzzy rodent anyway? 

I was just responding to your "walking away from a problem that you helped create should neither be condoned, not tolerate" statement. Which seemed to me to be rather harsh. 
And yes, the deadbeat moms are just as bad.

So sue me.


----------



## CalebD

You can both report to the forecastle to be flogged.
Does that help?
"The punishment will continue until morale improves."


----------



## knothead

CalebD said:


> You can both report to the forecastle to be flogged.
> Does that help?
> "The punishment will continue until morale improves."


Oh bite me.


----------



## eherlihy

Stillraining said:


> Hmmm...lets see...one big piece of FG in an estuary compare to millions of shards of FG in and estuary...Hmmm...which one do I want...


Which poses a bigger hazard? The half sunken boat in a navigable estuary, or the millions of shards?

It has been done before - and this was on a beach in the Bahamas:

















- Article Credit: Kari Pugh published at MadMariner.com

My thought is that by holding the owner responsible, and HAVING HIM do the actual removal, as traumatizing as it might be, would send a clear message to everybody that boat ownership is a serious ONGOING responsibility. When things go south, you can't walk away from this responsibility, and you can't give it away on Craigslist.

This boat was pushed ashore after a storm, not a hurricane. For him to not have adequate ground tackle because he couldn't afford it, means that he could not afford the boat. A more responsible thing for him to have done is to realize this, and either sell or give her away while she was still afloat.


----------



## CBinRI

knothead said:


> I agree! Now someone should remind all those countless men who walk away from their marriages and children every day.
> 
> Lets keep things in perspective.


This attempt at deflection misses the mark. Irresponsible parenting may be a worse offense against humanity but it is wholly irrelevant to this issue. Would you consider it to be relevant if a corporate polluter told us he couldn't afford to clean up the oil behind his factory? Apples and oranges.


----------



## Boasun

Post 381 should go in the Trivia file and not here. 
By the way: Each one of those idiots made the decision to go bad. Parenting really had nothing to do with it....

Now is the Distant Star going to be refloated, become a navigational land mark or be made into small fiber-glass splinters??


----------



## eherlihy

CBinRI said:


> This attempt at deflection misses the mark. Irresponsible parenting may be a worse offense against humanity but it is wholly irrelevant to this issue. Would you consider it to be relevant if a corporate polluter told us he couldn't afford to clean up the oil behind his factory? Apples and oranges.




To be fair; I _think_ that he took issue with my statement "ignore this [court] order and go to jail." I believe that his argument is that there are already too many people in jail. For some reason he settled on deadbeat dads to illustrate his point.

His argument, however, didn't hold water for me either. Without the possibility of more severe consequences (escalation) I don't think that any of our laws, or even social mores, would be enforceable; why should anyone pay taxes? why register your boat? why obey traffic laws? why follow rules, why be civilized?

I don't mean to put words in KH's mouth. Please feel free to set me straight.

I _almost_ replied with; "OK, then execute him." but, I thought that might be too harsh... Maybe sending the offender on a solo circumnavigation on a sunfish with 2 pitbulls would be a more appropriate escalation? - whatever...

On the plus side, I have taken this occasion to learn how to use the "Ignore List" feature of SailNet!


----------



## Stillraining

Boasun said:


> Now is the Distant Star going to be refloated, become a navigational land mark or be made into small fiber-glass splinters??


Agreed...and as I earlier posted ..I sure hope its not a chain saw at sea kind of thing Bad idea)...what a mess that would be..

Winching it out of the mud with a barge will be expensive but I'm in the camp of its the responsibility of the Owner to pay the freight...its one of the potential "costs" of "livin the free life' so many want to be water dwellers aspire to...That's where the Dead beat dad rabbit trail trail started from.

SVDS had good intentions and I wish him no ill..but he needs to clean up his mess...I hope the authorities see to it in this case...My suggestion to the heroic gentlemen trying to re-float this thing is to run before it becomes you the authorities are after instead.


----------



## Cruisingdad

First of all, we are all friends here guys. I understand why knot posted what he did and I understand your points too. 

However, I cannot (and neither can the other mods) go around deleting every thread that goes off topic. Crap - we would never sleep around here. I guess just consider it one of those small irritations of a forum.

My opinions - and all of you can bite TDW if you don't like it (just get a rabbies shot first)!!

HEHE!

Brian


----------



## JohnRPollard

eherlihy said:


> ...
> 
> On the plus side, I have taken this occasion to learn how to use the "Ignore List" feature of SailNet!


Hi,

Not sure who you're referring to, but if it was Knothead you'll be missing out on some of the best advice on standing and running rigging that Sailnet has to offer.

Sometimes we misinterpret or misread what others have posted -- I may even have done so here -- so offering the benefit of the doubt is a nice gesture.


----------



## Cruisingdad

JohnRPollard said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure who you're referring to, but if it was Knothead you'll be missing out on some of the best advice on standing and running rigging that Sailnet has to offer.


Exactly - I taught Knot everything he knows!!! He's gotta be knowedgeable!!!

HEHE!

Brian


----------



## Stillraining

eherlihy said:


> Which poses a bigger hazard? The half sunken boat in a navigable estuary, or the millions of shards?
> 
> It has been done before - and this was on a beach in the Bahamas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Article Credit: Kari Pugh published at MadMariner.com
> 
> My thought is that by holding the owner responsible, and HAVING HIM do the actual removal, as traumatizing as it might be, would send a clear message to everybody that boat ownership is a serious ONGOING responsibility. When things go south, you can't walk away from this responsibility, and you can't give it away on Craigslist.
> 
> This boat was pushed ashore after a storm, not a hurricane. For him to not have adequate ground tackle because he couldn't afford it, means that he could not afford the boat. A more responsible thing for him to have done is to realize this, and either sell or give her away while she was still afloat.


I completely missed this post...and I agree 100% with putting the responcibility where it belongs.

Well all I can say is as an excavation contractor and all the BS I have to go through working to keep a little stinking muddy water from entering a storm system that may or may not end up in a salmon stream...I sure am surprised at this acceptable way of boat removal...The Bahamas ?..well its there country they make the rules..A 4600 Manatawalk crane though could have slung that thing 100' in any direction..In one piece.


----------



## JohnRPollard

Cruisingdad said:


> Exactly - I taught Knot everything he knows!!! He's gotta be knowedgeable!!!
> 
> HEHE!
> 
> Brian


Sure, about grills maybe. But this is a _sailing_ website.

When you learn to sail, come on back and report in.


----------



## Stillraining

JohnRPollard said:


> Sure, about grills maybe. But this is a _sailing_ website.
> 
> When you learn to sail, come on back and report in.


Now that's FUNNY!!:laugher


----------



## Cruisingdad

JohnRPollard said:


> Sure, about grills maybe. But this is a _sailing_ website.
> 
> When you learn to sail, come on back and report in.


It's got a motor... who needs to sai!???

Brian


----------



## JohnRPollard

Cruisingdad said:


> It's got a motor... who needs to sai!???
> 
> Brian


I hear you. We keep our covers on so the sails won't get dirty or worn out.


----------



## Stillraining

I just turned mine into a land yacht...bought a video projector and show sailing movies on on that big white boat yard wall in front of me.

Were off to Tahiti Tonight...eat your hearts out.


----------



## bubb2

Stillraining said:


> I just turned mine into a land yacht...bought a video projector and show sailing movies on on that big white boat yard wall in front of me.
> 
> Were off to Tahiti Tonight...eat your hearts out.


:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher 
Thanks for the laugh!
I can see you in the cockpit, cooler along side, on your Pacific "journey."


----------



## Cruisingdad

bubb2 said:


> :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher
> Thanks for the laugh!
> I can see you in the cockpit, cooler along side, on your Pacific "journey."


But the question is whether he watches those movies with his lifejacket on!?? Does he throw cold salt water on himself every 3 minutes? Stub his toe every once in a while? Take a little Ipecac? Sleep wrapped around the compression post?

Otherwise, he is just pretending... HEHE!

Brian


----------



## KeelHaulin

Does he adjust the stands so the boat is heeling??


----------



## tdw

Cruisingdad said:


> But the question is whether he watches those movies with his lifejacket on!?? Does he throw cold salt water on himself every 3 minutes? Stub his toe every once in a while? Take a little Ipecac? Sleep wrapped around the compression post?
> 
> Otherwise, he is just pretending... HEHE!
> 
> Brian


I'm pretty sure that Mrs Raining and the Stillettes happily fulfill that role. I'd reckon they'd even hit him over the head with a stand in boom every now and then.


----------



## knothead

Well, I admit that my little comparison (a sore subject for me) fell short of the mark and I apologize for dragging this thread off topic. I sorta thought it had already strayed there.


----------



## Cruisingdad

knothead said:


> Well, I admit that my little comparison (a sore subject for me) fell short of the mark and I apologize for dragging this thread off topic. I sorta thought it had already strayed there.


Yeah. Bad on you. I _never_ stray off topic.

By the way, you guys seen any good movies lately?

HEHE!

Brian

PS Dont take it personal, Knotty.


----------



## Bene505

eherlihy said:


> Which poses a bigger hazard? The half sunken boat in a navigable estuary, or the millions of shards?
> 
> It has been done before - and this was on a beach in the Bahamas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Article Credit: Kari Pugh published at MadMariner.com
> 
> My thought is that by holding the owner responsible, and HAVING HIM do the actual removal, as traumatizing as it might be, would send a clear message to everybody that boat ownership is a serious ONGOING responsibility. When things go south, you can't walk away from this responsibility, and you can't give it away on Craigslist.
> 
> This boat was pushed ashore after a storm, not a hurricane. For him to not have adequate ground tackle because he couldn't afford it, means that he could not afford the boat. A more responsible thing for him to have done is to realize this, and either sell or give her away while she was still afloat.


If they had taken the electronics off, they cold have sold them and paid for the backhoe for the day. Besides the obvious shame of the lost boat, is all the good parts that are being destroyed. As one who is "saving up" for a chart plotter, I can say that it's a shame.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## KeelHaulin

You know, many of you guys with galvanized chain and a galvanized swivel should check that cotter pin holding the shear pin on the swivel. I checked mine before a recent overnight trip and found the cotter pin had nearly rusted away. I don't know if they use a mild steel pin or galvanized for the stock pin; but it sure was not anything close to the corrosion resistance of a stainless pin.

I still can't understand why this swivel design does not use a threaded pin so you can sieze the pin to the shackle with stainless wire.


----------



## mintcakekeith

dont understand what the above post has to do with derelect boats but SSand galv together is a big no no.


----------



## AndrewMac

I'm new to sailnet and was wondering how everyone would deal with the winter months, when so many boats are pulled.....now I know: everyone loses their minds....or is this the normal state around here? Actually, don't answer that.


----------



## JohnRPollard

AndrewMac said:


> I'm new to sailnet and was wondering how everyone would deal with the winter months, when so many boats are pulled.....now I know: everyone loses their minds....or is this the normal state around here? Actually, don't answer that.


You ain't seen nothing yet!! We're just ramping up here....


----------



## bubb2

mintcakekeith said:


> dont understand what the above post has to do with derelect boats but SSand galv together is a big no no.


It was a boat that broke free from it's anchor and grounded that started this thread.


----------



## KeelHaulin

mintcakekeith said:


> dont understand what the above post has to do with derelect boats but SSand galv together is a big no no.


So you would not want to do something silly like putting a zinc collar on a stainless prop shaft??

My point was that a stainless cotter pin would be better than anything that is prone to rusting so quickly like a mild steel pin or a galvanized steel pin which has had the zinc plating flake off. An anchor arrangement is only as strong as it's weakest link; and the cotter pin is a weak link in a swivel design. I can't understand why these are not made with a threaded pin which can be siezed with wire.


----------



## denby

AndrewMac said:


> I'm new to sailnet and was wondering how everyone would deal with the winter months, when so many boats are pulled.....now I know:* everyone loses their minds..*..or is this the normal state around here? Actually, don't answer that.


Hey, be careful now, I resemble that remark. 
Welcome to the insane asylum.


----------



## AE28

Anyone know the current status of the boat in the original post?
Thanks,
Paul


----------



## sailingdog

Sunk and trashed and currently littering the environment and posing a serious hazard to local boaters AFAIK.


----------



## smackdaddy

This thread is one of the Hall-of-Fame bummers. SVDSRIP.


----------



## sailhog

That boat is stuck in my neck of the woods... and I have to say.... 

There is no way in hell anyone is going to get that boat out of that mud on that tidal river without a combination of massive trash pumps and floats. All of this seat-of-the-pants stuff is a complete and total waste of time and energy. Come in at low tide, wade through the mud, secure the floats, evadcuate the cabin, and somehow keep the water from pouring over the cockpit combings on the rising tide. Even then it may just sit there, stuck in the mud, as they say. I hate be a downer about it, but that's the reality.

Maybe the best thing to do at this point is to go in at low tide with an aceytlene torch, cut the mast and standing rigging so that they're no longer a navigational hazzard, and leave her be.


----------



## artbyjody

So almost a year... from what I remember new boat purchased this one still a hazzard....?


----------



## smackdaddy

Jody! Baby! Wazzap?


----------



## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Jody! Baby! Wazzap?


Been awhile eh?xoxo:laugher


----------



## puddinlegs

Did you get your boat back up and running Jody? Hope to see you guys out on the Sound again soon!


----------



## artbyjody

puddinlegs said:


> Did you get your boat back up and running Jody? Hope to see you guys out on the Sound again soon!


Just doing some live aboard renovations now ... we'll be back in full force come March...


----------



## weephee

Does anyone know what eventually happened to this sailboat. Did it get removed or is it still laying on its side in the river.


----------



## doubleeboy

weephee said:


> Does anyone know what eventually happened to this sailboat. Did it get removed or is it still laying on its side in the river.


Bump! Darn good question. My bet is nothing happened but I am a continent away, so just guessing.

michael


----------



## WheresTheBrakes

Well believe it or not, 
IT'S BEEN REMOVED !

I have no idea who paid for it, or exactly what happened.. I have a buddy that was fishing and said he saw some guys in big skiffs come out at low tide and strap a bunch of IBC (1000 liter) containers to the outside and cut the mast and standing rigging off.. when the tide came up they slowly dragged it to a nearby island, and cut her up with sawsalls and chainsaws and stack the pieces on the skiffs..

I didn't see them but sure would have loved to.. I'm pleased it's out of the water though !!


----------



## SEMIJim

What a sad and inglorious end for what was once a beautiful, proud boat 

Jim


----------



## sailingfool

Maybe there's a lesson here, or not.

Should one say "Hey, coulda happened to anybody" or go with "Don't leave your boat on anchor un-attended for weeks on end..."?


----------



## trisstan87

Well if you take a look, you have almost 50,000 views for your post. Out of those 50K I am sure almost are are sympathetic and wishing you the best. It must be heart breaking to go out to see your beloved boat only to get there and see her like that.. I am not one for drinking heavy or condoning such actions but I would have found the bottom of a few bottles had that been me. Good luck.


----------



## KeelHaulin

Glad to see it's finally out of there and not a hazard to navigation anymore. With all of the discussion here about how to raise the boat; it's good to hear that someone that knew what they were doing finally got the job done. If they had come along earlier it would have been salvage-able; but at this point 1.5 years after it sank there was little reason to do anything but cut the hull up and haul it away.

Did they just let the mast and rig go to the bottom? Maybe so since it would not be much of a nav hazard down there in the mud. What about the keel? Did they just let that lie also?


----------



## sailingdog

The keel is probably the only bit that is really worth anything at this point in time. I hope the salvagers got the keel and sold it...


----------



## PalmettoSailor

*I hate to say I told you so....*



midlifesailor said:


> snip... That thing is coming out there one of two ways, a crane barge or chainsawed into pieces. Sad, but the truth is I don't care anymore which it is, so long as its removed from the waters of my home state.


Sad end to a sad story.


----------



## merc2dogs

So they used pretty much the same method to move her as several people recommended?


----------



## eherlihy

merc2dogs said:


> So they used pretty much the same method to move her as several people recommended?


Except that the term "they" probably does not include the owner of the vessel.


----------



## CaptainMicktheSaltySailor

*Fyi/ftr*



trisstan87 said:


> Well if you take a look, you have almost 50,000 views for your post. Out of those 50K I am sure almost are are sympathetic and wishing you the best. It must be heart breaking to go out to see your beloved boat only to get there and see her like that.. I am not one for drinking heavy or condoning such actions but I would have found the bottom of a few bottles had that been me. Good luck.


Sorry, but going home, drowning Your sorrows with alchohol and not getting off Your fanny and DOING SOMETHING, any thing, EVERY THING you can to save Your boat, right there, right then....is THE recipe for disaster.

I am in the salvage and restoration business; know about 250 others also in the business across the country. We'll GO, we'll SAVE YOUR BOAT if You simply ask, we prefer it if You can pay us, we will gladly accept the boat for salvage if not, or take payments with a lien on Your Title while You keep the vessel and deal with the damage(s).

I contributed to this thread far more than once and it led several people to believe/think/suspect that I may have been, or been responsible for, the folks who showed up and 'did the nasty'. All I wanted was the bow rail, it was a nico marine high quality aftermarket product that would have fit our 'keeper' Pearson P39 nicely. For the record, it wasn't me, I never would have left the mast or any portion of the rig or winches. After having received thousands of dollars over the years for restored winches that were under salt water for years (and even almost a decade in one case), as well as the mast being several hundred pounds of if nothing else scrap aluminum (at $0.65 a lb), the sale of it alone would offset fuel costs for the trip. Salvage Vessels are viewed like cars rolling in to the scrap yard...value of the parts remaining that are, or can be made to be again, serviceable, as well as value of the remaining sum of non-reuseable parts for recycling. Then You factor the 'downside'...a trailerload of fiberglass pieces, literally 'tons 'o crap', which has to be disposed of. That COSTS money. The projected assets have to outweigh the liabilities, w/sufficient profit to pay employees, cover all costs and still 'make a buck'(or 2). On a previous planned out venture to head that way (Charleston) to raise, relocate and canabalize the vessel in question, just N. of Jacksonville & prior leaving the state we ran over a 1/4th remaining piece of a big rig's brake drum on I95 trashing 3 tires on passenger side of truck and 2 tires on the dually (9'x24') trailer.
Tab by getting back home at sunrise the following morning?
$1200.+
Karma? Maybe...I could have (and did) had the brand new bow rail sought, fabricated in top shelf fashion for far less. Pearson (Bill Shaw) built some awesome vessels, yes it's sad that there's 1 less of them now, however, we were looking at doing the same thing, nearly a year ago. When I get 5 flat destroyed, practically brand new tires in less than 1 second and people watch their life flash before their eyes at 75mph (w/5 blowouts at once)...I call that a sign from GOD.
When I get those signs, I pay attention/listen. After that escapade, this boat was off limits to my business.
Since several have inquired, no, I/we weren't the folks that showed up and made it a big pile in a few hours. It Is on occasion, what I do...just not this one.
-mick


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## trisstan87

Of course I would not have walked to the boat, observed it half sunk, and say, "oh woe is me, my poor boat. Well nothing to do now but head to the liquor store." I would have probably had my heart sink, stand in that pose with that look people have when they JUST realized something really bad has happened and they aren't sure how to react yet, rushed into a flurry of activity, half-way through said activities feel really low and depressed as I look around at the damage, get back to work and set the boat where at least no MORE damage will get done for the day, THEN, and only then, would I have gone to the liquor store. You see, it's a process


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## Gene Smith

*Lost Pearson*

'Kinda makes that slip rental look reasonable now-


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## sailingdog

Just curious, how did you contribute to this thread more than once, when you currently only have TWO POSTS to your credit.  Also, I would point out , that as a salvor, you need to comply with the Marine Industry Special Interest Disclosure rules as posted in the Boat Buying forum.



CaptainMicktheSaltySailor said:


> Sorry, but going home, drowning Your sorrows with alchohol and not getting off Your fanny and DOING SOMETHING, any thing, EVERY THING you can to save Your boat, right there, right then....is THE recipe for disaster.
> 
> I am in the salvage and restoration business; know about 250 others also in the business across the country. We'll GO, we'll SAVE YOUR BOAT if You simply ask, we prefer it if You can pay us, we will gladly accept the boat for salvage if not, or take payments with a lien on Your Title while You keep the vessel and deal with the damage(s).
> 
> I contributed to this thread far more than once and it led several people to believe/think/suspect that I may have been, or been responsible for, the folks who showed up and 'did the nasty'. All I wanted was the bow rail, it was a nico marine high quality aftermarket product that would have fit our 'keeper' Pearson P39 nicely. For the record, it wasn't me, I never would have left the mast or any portion of the rig or winches. After having received thousands of dollars over the years for restored winches that were under salt water for years (and even almost a decade in one case), as well as the mast being several hundred pounds of if nothing else scrap aluminum (at $0.65 a lb), the sale of it alone would offset fuel costs for the trip. Salvage Vessels are viewed like cars rolling in to the scrap yard...value of the parts remaining that are, or can be made to be again, serviceable, as well as value of the remaining sum of non-reuseable parts for recycling. Then You factor the 'downside'...a trailerload of fiberglass pieces, literally 'tons 'o crap', which has to be disposed of. That COSTS money. The projected assets have to outweigh the liabilities, w/sufficient profit to pay employees, cover all costs and still 'make a buck'(or 2). On a previous planned out venture to head that way (Charleston) to raise, relocate and canabalize the vessel in question, just N. of Jacksonville & prior leaving the state we ran over a 1/4th remaining piece of a big rig's brake drum on I95 trashing 3 tires on passenger side of truck and 2 tires on the dually (9'x24') trailer.
> Tab by getting back home at sunrise the following morning?
> $1200.+
> Karma? Maybe...I could have (and did) had the brand new bow rail sought, fabricated in top shelf fashion for far less. Pearson (Bill Shaw) built some awesome vessels, yes it's sad that there's 1 less of them now, however, we were looking at doing the same thing, nearly a year ago. When I get 5 flat destroyed, practically brand new tires in less than 1 second and people watch their life flash before their eyes at 75mph (w/5 blowouts at once)...I call that a sign from GOD.
> When I get those signs, I pay attention/listen. After that escapade, this boat was off limits to my business.
> Since several have inquired, no, I/we weren't the folks that showed up and made it a big pile in a few hours. It Is on occasion, what I do...just not this one.
> -mick


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## merc2dogs

Don't know him, as you say only two posts so far, may be an alt. 
But in this incarnation, the only mention of being in the salvage business is in the above post, no contact info/phone number etc, nothing mentioned in his profile either, so I'd say there's no conflict anywhere.
He doesn't have name address and contact info in his sig.

Not like other posts I've seen with blatant sales pitches.


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## sailingdog

I'd point out that having multiple identities on this forum is a banning offense... and since he said he has posted multiple times in this thread previously, either he is LYING or HE HAS MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS. The bulk of people with multiple accounts are typically up to no good as we've seen here in the past.


merc2dogs said:


> Don't know him, as you say only two posts so far, may be an alt.
> But in this incarnation, the only mention of being in the salvage business is in the above post, no contact info/phone number etc, nothing mentioned in his profile either, so I'd say there's no conflict anywhere.
> He doesn't have name address and contact info in his sig.
> 
> Not like other posts I've seen with blatant sales pitches.


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## steel

*This looks easy! My method should have her floating again in a couple days of work!* Okay I'm not really that sure. Just trying to get everyone's attention.

What you need

1) A place to attach a cable on the ground which can hold a few thousand pounds. This can be a big metal stake hammered in to the ground at an angle facing away from the boat, a heavy truck or a distant tree.

2) A long 1/4" steel cable (1/4" has 1300 lb working load - test is much higher) or equally strong rope which can reach from the boat to the place on the ground to secure it. And 4 1/4" steel cable clamps.

3) a 2ft long 4x4 piece of wood with two screws in it next to each other securing a metal bracket to the side in the middle. The cable goes under the bracket which holds the board to the cable.

4) A 10 - 20ft long 4x4 wooden board (or any other long thing which can support over 2000 pounds) with a flat piece on the end to keep it from sinking in to the ground and a groove cut in the top for the cable to go through.

5) A winch Search results for: 'winch'

********

6) A small boat with mud removing stuff. A water pump to pump the water and mud out, and another pump with a pressure sprayer to loosen up all the mud in the boat, ensure there is plenty of water for the mud to mix with and to spray off the mud which plugs the water intake of the other pump. And of course some shovels and buckets too.

********
If she can't be floated out:

7) Sillicone tubes and gun.

8) Enough cable to go across the river to secure to the other side, or a boat to tow. This may also be needed if the boat falls over on port side by accident.

*Now here starts the fun part.*
Loop one end of the cable around the bottom of the mast and secure with two cable clamps and tighten the bolts well. Bring the cable up over the port side and on to land and secure the other end to the winch. Secure the winch to whatever there is that can hold a few thousand pounds -- a tree or truck or stake. You may need to use both cables at the same time to have enough strength. The short 4x4 board is to keep the cable from cutting through the fiberglass on the side. Put the board under the cable up at the edge of the boat and secure it to the cable with a bracket or one of those U shaped nail things. That long 10 - 20 ft post may help to elivate the cable as close to the boat as can be done. Erect the post on land or in the water exactly under the cable so the cable is pushed up in the air. This will direct the direction of pull on the boat so that hopefully it will be pulled up more than sideways so it will lift up more easily and won't want to slide and push itself down further in the mud. *Now start the winch. Be careful to not pull the boat so much that she falls over to port. She just needs to be pulled up enough so that no more water and mud gets in and the mud can be cleaned out easily.*

With the mud cleaned up and water out with the boat pulled most of the way upright it is time to wait for high tide. At high tide she should stay upright on her own. The she can be towed out or a rope can be run across the river from the bow. Pulling her out from the stern will risk damaging the rudder won't it?

If there is not enough water at high tide for the boat to stay upright enough to keep water out on her own then this gets much harder. With the boat upright using the cable all hatches and any vents need to be closed and plugged. Use the sillicone to seal up the companionway door so no water can get in when she lays on her side with water half way covering the companionway. Now attach the cable to the bow and get ready to pull with the winch on the other side of the river or from a powerful boat. Disconnect the cable holding her upright and start pulling! Hopefully she'll be partially floating.

I can't wait for all the comments about why this won't work! I enjoyed thinking it all up even if it is completely stupid for whatever reason I might soon find out 



sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that having multiple identities on this forum is a banning offense... and since he said he has posted multiple times in this thread previously, either he is LYING or HE HAS MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS. The bulk of people with multiple accounts are typically up to no good as we've seen here in the past.


I hate having rules which can't be enforced.  What good does it do to ban someone who admits to having two accounts? All you're doing is punishing someone for being honest. Then they just come back with a 3rd account (and they don't tell anybody that time!). The people who don't say they have multiple accounts are the ones who cause trouble. There's no way to really ever catch people who have multiple accounts unless they are just lazy and do everything from a single Internet connection without trying to hide.


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## RumPirate

I come across this thread from a link in another thread.

I read through 44 pages in the hope that 'Distant Star' would actually be saved.

To now discover that she was cut up with sawsalls and chainsaws is very saddening and disappointing. As another poster wrote, it is a sorry and inglorious end for what was once a beautiful, proud boat. 

Commiserations to the Original Poster.


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## smackdaddy

RumPirate said:


> Commiserations to the Original Poster.


+1.


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## billyruffn

*OK, loosing your boat sucks, but.....*

....some things are worse!


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## smackdaddy

br, you have a way of putting everything into perspective.


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## artbyjody

Could of been worse, someone could of been cut up by the chainsaw in the destruction.... still a pity...but for anyone not familiar with the Piedmont area (SC) and the delta (Charleston being one) - it is 80% clay...


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## centaursailor

billyruffn said:


> ....some things are worse!


Like Smackdaddy says but what about the poor fekin bull. 
Hes not there just showing off:hothead 
Not so safe killing dumb creatures this time:laugher .


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## PeterSailer

Those picture are very hard to look at... especially when they are the first you see in the morning.
Send us a few pics after/during the refit, i'm sure she's gonna be beautiful again


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## CaptainMicktheSaltySailor

*ASS-U-Ming can be embarrassing.*



sailingdog said:


> Just curious, how did you contribute to this thread more than once, when you currently only have TWO POSTS to your credit.  Also, I would point out , that as a salvor, you need to comply with the Marine Industry Special Interest Disclosure rules as posted in the Boat Buying forum.


Pretty Simple 'dawg'...I made a mistake;
Got word (though a phone call, back then) that DS was being 'chopped up' and they wanted to know if it was me. It wasn't.
As for the 'multiple posts' comment, I had here (heaven forbid!) confused w/the cruisers forums, where we had a similarly lengthed thread regarding the same vessel, in the same 'rescue' scenarios, discussed by HUNDREDS of posters. I had communicated with the owner (and still do, via email) directly, via phone, and email, we'd planned a trip for a full moon low tide, and nearly DIED trying to get there in a timely fashion from the Nature Coast of Florida. Like I said in that posting...message sent and received (FROM GOD, IN TECHNICOLOR...Make that "CINEMASCOPE") clear as crystal...wasn't meant to be. Spending a weekend (you probably have no clue what manual labor in a boat yard, w/a 30 cu.yd. dumpster that You're filling with 150lb sections of FG hull all day and all night long is like, going 24 hrs a day until the task is done...in my case, in this sitrep as originally planned for the whopping compensation of a 'free bow pulpit rail' (where my biz wouldn't take on this proposition for less than $10k, EVER), and helping a guy out in some pretty dire straits. For this You Hypothize that I and my company(s) are some sort of crooks? Here's hoping You never need to call a salvor. Here's further hoping that You learn to bite Your tongue regarding FURTHER, FOLLOW UP "Hypothication" about that which You know nothing, and speculation beyond "well, I guess Maybe He Made a Mistake?"


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## CaptainMicktheSaltySailor

*My Goodness, SailorDog is our 'watchdog'?*



sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that having multiple identities on this forum is a banning offense... and since he said he has posted multiple times in this thread previously, either he is LYING or HE HAS MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS. The bulk of people with multiple accounts are typically up to no good as we've seen here in the past.


uke 
Dog, 
1-here's a thought process for You...Perhaps as in Maybe, Just Maybe, I Made a Mistake? John Downing (SV DS's OWNER) asked me to LOOK at the pictures in THIS Thread here, with a thread that he'd started at Cruisers Forums. I did. I actually NEVER Posted to THIS Thread, here, Prior to making the mistake of coming BACK here after being contacted by folks who'd read the other thread, at the OTHER Site, and contacted me (by both phone and email) to see if it was Our Company doing the salvage job...it was not; all I was trying to do was confirm that, for anybody who cared. NOT taking credit for that, which we weren't responsible for; go figure. A 'cut&paste' from another website does NOT a "Liar" make.

2-The VAST Majority of the folks 'here' (who aren't even "here", and apparently only were, ONCE) who have 'multiple accounts', either forgot their user name, or password (OR BOTH) and creating a new acct. was the easiest (or ONLY) answer. I don't THINK I have multiple accounts, if so, it was never intended; nor would I believe it to be the case for THOUSANDS of 'folks' w/user names that have NEver, EVer posted here and only visited ONCE...say 7 YEARS Ago? Scroll through the membership rolls sometime...just pick a letter and realize how ludicrous that statement of typically 'nafarious intentions' becomes?

3-I was 'migrated' here when SN BOUGHT the membership lists and discussion boards on a Pearson Owners Mailing List in '05; suggesting that unadulterated 'capitalist' plugging of one's business is equally ludicrous in that:
A-it simply never happened (by this poster), and 
B-the box that I type in is SURROUNDED by ADVERTISEMENTS that PAY FOR THIS SITE in the owners hopeful goal of SELLING THINGS and Services (read=Making MONEY)!

4-Perhaps You would be further "more well informed" of the discussion boards rules if You read #1; You know, the part about PERSONAL ATTACKS?
I consider my reputation flawless. Having it sullied by someone in an anonymous fashion is dispicable; being called a LIAR is in anyone here's definition I'm fairly confident...a "personal attack". I'm a pure, unadulterated capitalist, employer of people who have JOBS and pay taxes; heck they even SPEND that money that's left over after all those taxes....maybe even spend some of it, right here?! I DID Make a mistake, in haste, in not being terribly interested in spending an inordinately excessive amount of time with a posting (either here or CF), so I cut & pasted that which had been posted there to get off the 'phone calls and emails' inbound list of folks up and down the east coast of the USofA who thought I/We/My business might be involved. For that, and 1/2, of 1 sentence You choose to be judge, jury and executioner. 
'nuff said

 
-Mick


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## carl762

Hate to say it, but you're wasting your breath. SD left this site and won't be back, from what I hear.


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