# "Marine" GFCI Outlet?



## SEMIJim

During the survey, our surveyor noted _Abracadabra's_ AC outlets in the galley and on one of the bulkheads separating the main cabin from the head had no GFCI protection. Naturally, he recommended adding GFCI protection, and advised that we needed a _marine_ GFCI outlet, not just the average GFCI outlet you'd pick up at Home Depot, or whatever.

So how do you identify these and where do you get them? Saw a GFCI outlet at WM, but the labeling was scant (looked like perhaps it'd been re-packaged?) and said nothing about "marine" on it. (It certainly had a "marine" price on it, tho .)

These outlets are the "modern"-looking, rectangular kind.

Thanks,
Jim


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## PBzeer

When I did the rewire of my AC wiring, my advisor, a liscensed marine electrican, told me to get a GFIC outlet from Home Depot. Which is what I have. You only need more than one if there are two different circuits for your outlets. Only the first in a circuit needs a GFIC outlet.


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## SanderO

Draw a little anchor symbol and a standard CFCI... and make sure you get the wiring done right.

hahahaha

jef
sv shiva


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## poopdeckpappy

I was told the same thing, one in the galley and one in the head and that household GFI's are fine


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## Pamlicotraveler

I doubt there is any difference. The point is to cut off the circuit quickly if you get shocked. Land use GFCI would probably be just as heavy duty as a boat GFCI since the whole purpose of them is to protect in wet areas. 

Also, if you protect the first outlet with GFCI the remaining outlets on the circuit are then protected. Not sure if the surveyor would have checked that or not...


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## SEMIJim

Thanks for the follow-ups.

I guess I should've explained as how I'm an electronics/computer geek, am comfortable working with residential wiring anything short of a primary circuit (mains coming into a residence), and know how GFCIs work .

It's not a question of heavy-duty-ness or any difference in circuit behaviour. Surveyor said something about the materials in a standard residential GFCI outlet not being suitable for marine use, due to the constant exposure to a more humid environment. This being true of wiring and most hardware, I thought, "Okay. Makes sense." (Then again: Plain ol' GFCI outlets get installed in bathrooms, laundry rooms, garages, outdoor outlet boxes...)

And yeah, I know about "daisy-chaining" GFCI outlets, too.

Jim


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## jackytdunaway

IMHO i think my hot steaming bathroom puts more hunidity in the air everytime i take a hot shower than will ever be in my boats cabin just because it sits over a body of water. i have never had my windows in the boat fog up like my mirror in my bath at home


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## sailingdog

I think one major difference is that the copper on the marine-grade GFCI outlets is tinned, on the terrestrial outlets it isn't IIRC. That little bit of solder spread out is why they charge you so much more.


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## SEMIJim

Well, since nobody seems to as concerned about marine-grade GFCI outlets as they are everything else being marine-grade, much less able to tell me how to identify one or where to obtain it, I guess I'll just buy a plain ol' GFCI at Home Depot and be done with it.

Two, actually. With new faceplates. The bits of the interior that aren't wood, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, are white. The outlets and faceplates that are in there now are "putty." Yuck.

Thanks, everybody, for your comments.

Jim


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## labatt

There's a BIG difference between Home Depot GFCI outlets and marine ones. The marine ones cost twice the price and are only sold by factory trained salespeople and must be installed by a licensed marine GFCI installer. I think they are running about half a boat unit per outlet these days


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## stevemac00

You probably only need one GFCI since you can daisy chain all outlets from the first one and then all outlets are protected. On my boat the first outlet is the head with the GFCI. If you have (or ever will have) an inverter some GFCI outlets will not work with a modified sine wave. Pass and Seymour will work on all but Leviton (usually quality equipment) will fail.


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## sailingdog

Actually, you'd need on for every AC circuit that has outlets on it. Most small sailboats don't have more than one or two circuits, but larger boats can easily up to a dozen circuits on them.



stevemac00 said:


> You probably only need one GFCI since you can daisy chain all outlets from the first one and then all outlets are protected. On my boat the first outlet is the head with the GFCI. If you have (or ever will have) an inverter some GFCI outlets will not work with a modified sine wave. Pass and Seymour will work on all but Leviton (usually quality equipment) will fail.


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## tager

Sailingdog. It's an ALBIN VEGA 27. 
If you have a 36 outlets in there, there won't be room for much else!


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## sailingdog

No one said anything about 36 outlets but you...


tager said:


> Sailingdog. It's an ALBIN VEGA 27.
> If you have a 36 outlets in there, there won't be room for much else!


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## mitiempo

tager
The original poster has a Pearson 30. I think your threads are in a knot. 

36 outlets?


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## mitiempo

"Marine GFCI outlets are made by Hubbell and anyone can purchase and install them. Not sure of the price though.

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/catalogpages/Page-V33.pdf


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## eherlihy

I just bought a Leviton Weather Resistant GFCI at the local HD for ~$20..
Leviton differentiates the Weather Resistant from the non-weather resistant with the following features; 
Stainless steel strap and mounting screws. 
Stainless steel terminal screws with nickel plated steel nut plates.
Conformally(?) coated PC board to protect critical components from moisture.
The non-weather resistant use brass terminal screws, and presumably something other than stainless steel for the mounting clips.

For comparison, I looked up the Hubbell, and Marinco GFCI's. Prices range from 20-$26. Hubbell and Marinco claim to "meet the requirements of ABYC" (what ever that means).


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## rikhall

PBzeer said:


> When I did the rewire of my AC wiring, my advisor, a liscensed marine electrican, told me to get a GFIC outlet from Home Depot. Which is what I have. You only need more than one if there are two different circuits for your outlets. Only the first in a circuit needs a GFIC outlet.


I agree 100% here. I did the same at the advice of my (very expensive and thorough marine surveyor)

Rik


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## hellosailor

Leviton also, in my experience, brings in the cheapest possible grade from China, and brings customer service and warranty claims to a new low point. I'll never buy a Leviton product if there's another option to be found.

I've been totally unimpressed by the company. They aren't what they were 30 years ago.


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## sailingdog

If they're not conformally coating their regular GFCI's they're doing something wrong. Almost all GFCIs are used in environments that are hostile to electronics-high humidity, often with condensation-while not as hostile as a marine environment, but a well found boat isn't going to be all that much worse.

I'd also second what HS said, since that has been my experience as well.



eherlihy said:


> I just bought a Leviton Weather Resistant GFCI at the local HD for ~$20..
> Leviton differentiates the Weather Resistant from the non-weather resistant with the following features;
> Stainless steel strap and mounting screws.
> Stainless steel terminal screws with nickel plated steel nut plates.
> Conformally(?) coated PC board to protect critical components from moisture.
> The non-weather resistant use brass terminal screws, and presumably something other than stainless steel for the mounting clips.
> 
> For comparison, I looked up the Hubbell, and Marinco GFCI's. Prices range from 20-$26. Hubbell and Marinco claim to "meet the requirements of ABYC" (what ever that means).


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## donradclife

The boat had GFCI's, but when I installed a modified sine-wave inverter they didn't work on the inverter output, so I removed them. That was 17 years ago, and I have survived without a single shock. 

Anyone have recent experience with which GFCI's might or not work downstream of inverters??


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## sailingdog

don-

It'd help if you said which inverter you had installed. I have a Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter/charger installed and it works just fine with the hubbell GFCIs I installed down stream of it.


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## blt2ski

Don,

The gfci's you had may have thought the modified sine power was an issue, so they popped? I am assuming this is the issue you had, popping and shutting off? The issue may not have anything to do with the brand, but the type of inverter it is.

marty


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## sailingdog

Marty--

AFAIK, the Freedom is a modified Sine wave unit... I've used two different brand GFCIs with them, Hubbells on my boat and Levitons on a friend's boat.


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## mitiempo

GFCIs pop when there is a leakage of current. Individual circuit GFCIs will pop when there is a difference of 5 milliamps or more between hot and neutral. They should and do work with any inverter that is working properly. Sine wave or not it should make no difference. I would think there could have been a wiring issue, either in the output from the inverter or in the AC wiring to the outlets.

GFCIs don't care about the quality of the current, just that hot and neutral have matching levels of current indicating no leakage.


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## blt2ski

Thanks for info. I was thinking the modified "could" have been the issue, but maybe it is not the issue, and could be as Brian pointed out, and miss wired something to the inverter or gfci, when the gfci was replace, the system worked. This makes sense too, as the inverter I am looking at getting is a modified, and has two built in GFCI's......

The only issue I ran into when I installed GFCI's in my boat the other day from HD per surveyor, is the wire size being bigger, did not fit in the holes on the back of the gfci, so I had to remove a strand or two. so far in 30 days, working as planned, got thru the insurance survey last week.....It would be nice to find them with bigger wire connectors for the marine grade wire! This is probably a different issue than OP etc brought up.

Marty


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## mitiempo

Marty
What size wire are you using?


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## blt2ski

Brian,

Not sure off the top of my head. I would have to go look to see what is in the boat, as I was using what was there. Probably 12, 14 at smallest would be my guess. 

Marty


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## mitiempo

The screws for wire attachment on AC outlets, GFI or standard, are not designed to be removable. And the hole insert is not my favorite. What I do is take a eye connector (left pic below) and cut a "V" out of it so the slot is a bit smaller than the size of the screw thread. It snaps on ans will not fall off. I'd post a pictire but me toolboxes are on a boat I'm working on. The other solution is to use the connector pictured below on the right. Available for any wire size. I use 14/3 for most AC wiring except 10/3 from inlet to panel.


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## eherlihy

The hole in the back of the GFCI is meant for use with SOLID wire only.


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## Maine Sail

mitiempo said:


> The screws for wire attachment on AC outlets, GFI or standard, are not designed to be removable. And the hole insert is not my favorite. What I do is take a eye connector (left pic below) and cut a "V" out of it so the slot is a bit smaller than the size of the screw thread. It snaps on ans will not fall off. I'd post a pictire but me toolboxes are on a boat I'm working on. The other solution is to use the connector pictured below on the right. Available for any wire size. I use 14/3 for most AC wiring except 10/3 from inlet to panel.


They will come out, and I still use rings, but captive spades are an option too.. I regularly remove the terminal screws & use rings. When you hit the resistance just keep going and they back right out. In over 15 years of doing this I have never had one strip out or not go back in. I personally dislike captive spade forks that much.. The ONLY problem with crimp connectors, which is the best option IMHO, is that you need a deeper outlet box than what most builders supply..


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## blt2ski

So that is the problem, I used a spot for solid vs multistrand...... I'll have to put that on the "FIX" list now.......not sure if that is a GRRRRR, or a "oh happy day"......more of a grrr frankly, but life goes on. I'll look into the possibility of using some o rings. 

Marty


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## rmeador

I have a Xantrex Freedom HF 1800 inverter/charger, which is a modified sine wave inverter, and the manual is very clear that some GFCIs will erroneously trip when running on a modified sine wave. They say to only use ones approved by them. They sent me a list of a handful of Hubbel part numbers that no longer exist, but the guy I talked to at Wesco found their new part numbers: GF15, GF20, GF82, GF83.


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## Maine Sail

rmeador said:


> I have a Xantrex Freedom HF 1800 inverter/charger, which is a modified sine wave inverter, and the manual is very clear that some GFCIs will erroneously trip when running on a modified sine wave. They say to only use ones approved by them. They sent me a list of a handful of Hubbel part numbers that no longer exist, but the guy I talked to at Wesco found their new part numbers: GF15, GF20, GF82, GF83.


Even the good Hubbel ones may still trip depending upon what you are running off the inverter. At idle they may do fine or with a purely resistive load but they don't always like variable speed motors like drills and such. Then again many variable speed motors & battery chargers for phones, drills etc. don''t like modified sine wave either.. Always fun....

Good meeting you the other day!


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## rmeador

I've never run anything off my inverter except my computer, so I've never had a problem. And that's all I intended it for... basically the boat is functioning as a giant uninterruptible power supply. I have heard some things don't like it however. It was good meeting you too!


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## mitiempo

The Xantrex Freedom 30 manual recommends a Pass and Seymour GFCI and I have seen a recommendation in one of their manuals for a Leviton GFCI. There is apparently a document on their website listing ones they approve but I couldn't find it.


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## rmeador

mitiempo, the document no longer exists on their website. That's why I had to contact support to get the list (which was still out of date). I told them to update their site, but why would they listen to a customer?


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## mitiempo

Yes, their website did get worse recently.


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## TakeFive

rmeador said:


> I've never run anything off my inverter except my computer...


Not sure whether you have a desktop or laptop, but if it's the latter you really should not use an inverter. It wastes a lot of power to go DC-AC-DC. Better to just get a car adaptor to run off of 12v.


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## rmeador

It's a desktop, and desktop 12V power supplies are ridiculously expensive. When I build my new computer, I'm going to go with one of those "shoebox" form factor desktops, and hopefully I'll be able to get a 12V power supply for it. The inverter is less for use while out and about and more to guard against power failure while at the dock. It wasn't much more money than the plain charger, I needed a UPS for my existing computer, and I like the convenience of being able to use AC appliances whenever I want if I'm away from the dock (not that I ever have), so I went with it. I like gadgets too much, maybe.


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## Waltthesalt

I' bought the marine grade outlet. Consider what your insurane ompany might say if you had a problem and the GFCI didn't work. Electrics are a significant cause of boat fires. Given that you're probably only getting one the cost diferential isn't that much


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## Waltthesalt

Since you're probably only buying one go with the marine grade. This is safety equipment. Consider what your insurance company would say if you boat had an electrical fire an the home depot GFCI didn't work. Worse if someone was elecrocuted


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## sailingdog

Many of the smaller form factor cases can be setup with a 12VDC power supply, since many shops set them up for car computers.



rmeador said:


> It's a desktop, and desktop 12V power supplies are ridiculously expensive. When I build my new computer, I'm going to go with one of those "shoebox" form factor desktops, and hopefully I'll be able to get a 12V power supply for it. The inverter is less for use while out and about and more to guard against power failure while at the dock. It wasn't much more money than the plain charger, I needed a UPS for my existing computer, and I like the convenience of being able to use AC appliances whenever I want if I'm away from the dock (not that I ever have), so I went with it. I like gadgets too much, maybe.


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## GaryHLucas

Did you ever wonder HOW a GFCI works? It really is brilliant in it's simplicity. You put both the hot and the neutral through a current sensing coil. Under normal loads the hot current and the neutral current exactly cancel each other, so no current flows in the sensing coil. If the hot or the neutral goes to ground the currents are unbalanced and current flows in the sensing coil, tripping the GFCI.

There are big commercial versions required by code that work the exact same way to prevent very destructive faults on electrical services at 480VAC and 1000 amps and up. Those are typically set at about 200 amps though.

Gary H. Lucas



mitiempo said:


> GFCIs pop when there is a leakage of current. Individual circuit GFCIs will pop when there is a difference of 5 milliamps or more between hot and neutral. They should and do work with any inverter that is working properly. Sine wave or not it should make no difference. I would think there could have been a wiring issue, either in the output from the inverter or in the AC wiring to the outlets.
> 
> GFCIs don't care about the quality of the current, just that hot and neutral have matching levels of current indicating no leakage.


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## eherlihy

Waltthesalt said:


> Since you're probably only buying one go with the marine grade. This is safety equipment. Consider what your insurance company would say if you boat had an electrical fire an the home depot GFCI didn't work. Worse if someone was elecrocuted


Also; consider what they would say if they found out that you put it in yourself.

< It makes me glad that I spent the time to get certified... >


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## sailingdog

Actually, did you mean to say you were CERTIFIABLE??? :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher



eherlihy said:


> Also; consider what they would say if they found out that you put it in yourself.
> 
> < It makes me glad that I spent the time to get certified... >


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## TakeFive

rmeador said:


> ...I like gadgets too much, maybe.


I know that feeling!  And I'm just getting started with "pimping my ride." 

It sounds like you definitely know what you're doing, so my comments were directed at others who might see this thread, not you. I see too many others who want to get inverters for their laptops, so I try to let everyone know that it's really unnecessary.

I'm working on a netbook-based chartplotter system for fair-weather use at the helm (described on another thread), but unfortunately the netbook runs off of 18-19v, so a simple 12v adapter will not work. Since you seem knowledgeable, maybe you can answer a lingering question about this. I have a real nice Compaq car adapter that puts out 90w @ 19v and is plug compatible with the Netbook, but the Netbook actually only needs about 19w to run. Do you happen to know whether a less oversized charger would be more efficient, or do these adapters draw only as much power as needed to drive the computer? I'd like to know whether to just go with what I have, or look for a lower amperage adapter that puts out 18-19 volts.


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## mitiempo

The laptop will use just the power it needs. Just like plugging a 100 watt (1 amp) bulb into a 15 amp outlet. But if charging the battery the laptop will use more current.


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## eherlihy

The 90W power adapter has the capability of putting out up to 90W with out a problem. If you draw 20W, you have 70W of reserve capacity. If you draw 200W out of the same adapter, you'll let the magic smoke out and it won't work anymore...


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## eherlihy

... and yes I AM certifiable! - Just ask my wife.


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## sailingdog

eherlihy said:


> ... and yes I AM certifiable! - Just ask my wife.


No need...I've met you... and it was self evident...  :laugher


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## blt2ski

I'm helpless according to my wife......or was it hopeless....

anyway, nice to know the modified sine inverter "could" be the issue for the one a page or two back blowing the gfci's. I was wondering if the spike, low pike low...... of the inverter might cause an issue.

Marty


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## rmeador

RhythmDoctor said:


> I'm working on a netbook-based chartplotter system for fair-weather use at the helm (described on another thread), but unfortunately the netbook runs off of 18-19v, so a simple 12v adapter will not work. Since you seem knowledgeable, maybe you can answer a lingering question about this. I have a real nice Compaq car adapter that puts out 90w @ 19v and is plug compatible with the Netbook, but the Netbook actually only needs about 19w to run. Do you happen to know whether a less oversized charger would be more efficient, or do these adapters draw only as much power as needed to drive the computer? I'd like to know whether to just go with what I have, or look for a lower amperage adapter that puts out 18-19 volts.


I like to think I'm knowledgeable, since I have a degree in electrical and computer engineering  As others have said, if the netbook only draws 19W, it won't use the full 90W the adapter is capable of sourcing. But, the efficiency is not constant, it's a curve that varies with load. On most switching regulators, which this adapter almost certainly is (and inverters are a type of switching regulator, so it applies to them too), they are very inefficient at near 0 draw and near their maximum draw, with peak efficiency somewhere in the middle. Peak efficiency on a switching regulator can be 90% or perhaps even better. For your purposes, I'd say just go with the adapter you have, getting another one isn't going to save you much power.


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## mitiempo

I know this thread is a bit stale but I came across the list of Xantrex approved GFCI's.

From the Xantrex XM1800 manual:


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## eherlihy

*BOTH *Leviton models above are obsolete and have been discontinued.

The Hubbell GFR5252 is still available for ~$25


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## mitiempo

Good to know.


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## reinell190

It is my understanding that there is a big difference. Household GFCI's are not ignition protected meaning it were to trip it could cause a spark.


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## hellosailor

Leviton: Cheapest possible product, zero customer support. On my list of vendors to be avoided at all costs.


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## bob2

SEMIJim said:


> During the survey, our surveyor noted _Abracadabra's_ AC outlets in the galley and on one of the bulkheads separating the main cabin from the head had no GFCI protection. Naturally, he recommended adding GFCI protection, and advised that we needed a _marine_ GFCI outlet, not just the average GFCI outlet you'd pick up at Home Depot, or whatever.
> 
> So how do you identify these and where do you get them? Saw a GFCI outlet at WM, but the labeling was scant (looked like perhaps it'd been re-packaged?) and said nothing about "marine" on it. (It certainly had a "marine" price on it, tho .)
> 
> These outlets are the "modern"-looking, rectangular kind.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim


We have a 1982 Tollycraft Yacht and cannot locate the GFCI, where would it be located? Thank you. Bob


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## bob2

1982 Tollycraft Yacht and cannot locate the GFCI, where would it be located? Thank you. Bob


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## hellosailor

"1982"
Bob, on a 1982 boat I doubt you will find a GFCI. They were about as common as LED lighting fixtures in 1982. Hell, in 1982 you probably wouldn't find simple primary fuses on the battery bank, either.
If someone retrofitted it, it might be either in the AC distribution panel, or within a few feet of the AC shorepower connector in the hull.


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## mitiempo

reinell190 said:


> It is my understanding that there is a big difference. Household GFCI's are not ignition protected meaning it were to trip it could cause a spark.


Marinco does not state that their GFCI's are ignition protected. As far as I can tell they are the same as a household GFCI with the exception of the price. I have installed many over the years on customer's boats as well as my own. I use standard GFCI's from Home Depot or other outlets.


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## mitiempo

bob2 said:


> 1982 Tollycraft Yacht and cannot locate the GFCI, where would it be located? Thank you. Bob


You may have GFCI's installed for various AC outlets. Certainly not likely to be factory installed.


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## albrazzi

Keep in mind receptacles can be fed through a GFCI and downstream outlets will be protected by the one. They need to be wired correctly so DYI beware. If you find one trip it and test the others. Remember Electricity is not a hobby. I wouldn't expect any GFCI would be ignition protected, the nature of the receptacle itself precludes that.


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## Maine Sail

Just be sure that when buying GFCI's they meet UL 943... This does not require them to be a "marine" GFCI but does mean you're not buying a bottom of the barrel cheap GFCI either and you're buying a decent "class A" GFCI..

Look for a "WR" rated UL 943 GFCI and you'll be doing okay but not all Class A GFCI's are "quality" in terms of standing up in the marine environment... I also use WR UL 943 GFCI's at home (Legrand) and they outlast the cheapies by about 10:1.

Hubbell & Legrand/Pass & Seymour make UL 943 GFCI's that I know to hold up pretty well in the marine environment. Leviton & others make them also. Leviton, at my local wholesaler, has the nickname_ Levicrap_ so be aware of that. The do make good stuff but also a lot of really cheap Home Depot grade stuff too.

It can be a bit tough to find a good quality WR UL 943/Class A GFCI at other than an electrical supply house, but they can be found.. I often use the Hubbell GF5252MWA which is white and stocked at one of my local electrical wholesalers. They are a decent GFCI for the money and hold up better than what you will find at a home center..

Be aware that Marinco simply sticks a Leviton GFCI into a Marinco box, calls it "marine", and charges you 4X the real going rate.... This identical GFCI can be had at Home Depot and is marginal at best...:doh:

Now if you really want a good quality "marine duty" GFCI spend the money on a hospital grade GFCI such as the Hubbell GFR8200WTR (the 20A version is the 8300). These are WR rated (tamper-proof too) but nickel plated internally to resist corrosion. This is what I have on my own boat. Grab your ankles though because a hospital spec GFCI will run you about $90.00..... I grabbed mine in the scratch & dent bin at my local wholesaler for $20.00 each because I knew what they were....:doh: The Legrand hospital GFCI is great too and slightly less money depending on which model.

Good quality GFCI's, that tend to last longer on boats, come from Legrand/Pass & Seymour & Hubbell. It has been my experience that they out last the others in the marine world. Cooper Industries does okay too..


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## hellosailor

Maine-
" at home (Legrand) and they outlast the cheapies by about 10:1. "
How often do you use the hairdryer while in the shower? Or what exactly IS it that you do, that burns out GFCI's in home use? I can't recall one every needing to be replaced, I'm sure eventually the do, but 10:1 would seem to imply you've burned out at least ten in home use??

Gotta agree about Leviton, their customer service/warranty department is as bad as it gets. They go beyond "cheap" into the realm of hucksters and travelers. (And I don't mean the marine kind.)


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## Maine Sail

hellosailor said:


> Maine-
> " at home (Legrand) and they outlast the cheapies by about 10:1. "
> How often do you use the hairdryer while in the shower? Or what exactly IS it that you do, that burns out GFCI's in home use? I can't recall one every needing to be replaced, I'm sure eventually the do, but 10:1 would seem to imply you've burned out at least ten in home use??
> 
> Gotta agree about Leviton, their customer service/warranty department is as bad as it gets. They go beyond "cheap" into the realm of hucksters and travelers. (And I don't mean the marine kind.)


We live about 100' from the Atlantic Ocean so perhaps the humidity has something to do with it, plus I am including all the ones I have to replace on boats as well. I find the cheap GFCI's just don't last at home or on boats. Course unlike most I have a tool, the Ideal Sure Test, that tests the performance of them in mS of trip time and applies over 6mA to test trip leakage point. I think many would be surprised at how many GFCI's, especially on boats, don't trip even at upwards of 7.5mA.....

I had a 10 pack a friend gave me of Leviton GFCI's within three years all of them had failed, at home, in the kitchen, bathrooms & deck / outside outlets. I replaced that lot of Leviton with Legrand and all of them are still going strong.


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## mitiempo

I remember reading a survey a while ago that stated that almost 20% of land based GFCI's in homes had failed - some open, some closed.


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## albrazzi

mitiempo said:


> I remember reading a survey a while ago that stated that almost 20% of land based GFCI's in homes had failed - some open, some closed.


That's scary and not Fail "Safe" that's the worst part.


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## Hudsonian

Marine GFCI outlets are available through ebay and Amazon. The associated product descriptions identify how they differ from ordinary gfci outlets.


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## hellosailor

So are these failures being found by folks like MS going out and testing them, while they apparently were in working order?

Or have they just gone belly-up while no one was around, leaving a dead outlet?

Or, worst of all, have they failed by allowing someone to get electrocuted?


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## transmitterdan

If you have one it will be one of the actual wall outlets. They look the same as the ones at home. I never heard of a "marine GFCI". The ones found at the local hardware store seem to work ok.


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## br3nt

I use a circuit tester that has an easy push button GFCI tester. Worth it's weight in gold to me. 

That said, what's more important is... Marine quality is vague, is it blue water or coastal quality?!?


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## mitiempo

Hudsonian said:


> Marine GFCI outlets are available through ebay and Amazon. The associated product descriptions identify how they differ from ordinary gfci outlets.


Kindly supply a link.


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## SVAuspicious

hellosailor said:


> So are these failures being found by folks like MS going out and testing them, while they apparently were in working order?


In my experience, a bit limited in this regard, GFCI failures on outlets and breakers cause a trip that will not reset. That may not be the only failure mode but it is the only one I have seen.


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## Minnewaska

SVAuspicious said:


> In my experience, a bit limited in this regard, GFCI failures on outlets and breakers cause a trip that will not reset. That may not be the only failure mode but it is the only one I have seen.


I have three GFCI circuits aboard and one trips routinely. It will reset, but it trips again, within a day or so, under no load. I was just leaving it tripped, at the end of the season, as I worried about a short. However, I've found nothing wrong, no corrosion, nothing. Perhaps it's just the receptacle that went bad, so I'm going to try to swap it out.

Is anyone aware of whether the Marinco GFCI has truly been marinized, tinned, or whatever? I read somewhere that a fella purchased one and it said Leviton on the back. If it's a $40 repackage of a $10 receptacle, that would be bad.


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## albrazzi

Hudsonian said:


> Marine GFCI outlets are available through ebay and Amazon. The associated product descriptions identify how they differ from ordinary gfci outlets.


There's nothing special there, its recognized for Marine use but the same one you would use anywhere. Like Maine said use good quality items.


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## albrazzi

Minnewaska said:


> I have three GFCI circuits aboard and one trips routinely. It will reset, but it trips again, within a day or so, under no load. I was just leaving it tripped, at the end of the season, as I worried about a short. However, I've found nothing wrong, no corrosion, nothing. Perhaps it's just the receptacle that went bad, so I'm going to try to swap it out.
> 
> Is anyone aware of whether the Marinco GFCI has truly been marinized, tinned, or whatever? I read somewhere that a fella purchased one and it said Leviton on the back. If it's a $40 repackage of a $10 receptacle, that would be bad.


I've had them fail at home like that. They can and do go bad, at least its failing OFF. They're just another maintenance item, probably not more wet a location than the average Bathroom at home but I recently had to put one in the cockpit storage locker for a charger, I'm sure its not an ideal place for it but I use them outside at home with a weather tite cover and get 15 years so far. I think that's pretty good.


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## Maine Sail

Minnewaska said:


> Is anyone aware of whether the Marinco GFCI has truly been marinized, tinned, or whatever? I read somewhere that a fella purchased one and it said Leviton on the back. If it's a $40 repackage of a $10 receptacle, that would be bad.


Marinco is simply repackaging the entry level _contractor spec grade_ Leviton N7599 GFCI. The strap & yoke are galvanized steel, internal contacts/wipes are bare brass, wire clamps are bare brass, mounting screws are plated steel and they are not even a water WR or tamper resistant TR GFCI.

I can buy the identical GFCI locally, in a Leviton box, for about $8.75, but I would not...:wink

BTW This is a statement from Leviton regarding "marine grade".

*"Unfortunately, Leviton does not currently offer ABYC-certified or marine-grade GFCIs. If there's anything else I can help you with, please let me know."*

Still does not stop Marinco & marine chandlers from marketing or passing this off as a "marine" product that deserves a "marine" premium......:eek

FWIW the ABYC does not _require_ a "marine grade" GFCI. However, as a boat owner, you can do far better than paying $40.00+ dollars for a GFCI that can be had for $8.00 - $12.00.

If you want a true quality GFCI, that will stand up in the marine environment, look for a hospital grade GFCI with plated internals and externals.

If I have time later I can upload some pics of the Marinco 1591-I which is nothing more than a Leviton N7599-I in a Marinco package....

Marine grade my a$$...........


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## Ajax_MD

On my boat, I just didn't see the point in daisy-chaining receptacles (GFCI or otherwise). If I've got 3, 15 amp receptacles on a 15 amp breaker, that means I can only use one or two of them at a time before I'm at my max safe load...unless I'm doing some very low draw activities like charging iPads or cell phones, then I suppose I could use all 3 at once on a single breaker.

I have 3 receptacles and I put them all on their own 15 amp breaker so that they ALL have 12 continuous amps to work with. I couldn't even operate a 1600w heater and a microwave oven on a single 15 amp breaker. Hell, even then I'm pushing the limits of my 30 amp mains breaker.

Daisy-chaining makes more sense in a dirt-bound home where you have a lot more wall space, more receptacles and a breaker panel with 30 breakers on it where you can make many shorter chains.


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## Minnewaska

Found hospital grade receptacles from Leviton are only about $12. What is wrong with Marinco!

Unfortunately, I've forgotten whether mine are 15 or 20 amps. This is why I need to liveaboard!


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## miatapaul

Minnewaska said:


> Found hospital grade receptacles from Leviton are only about $12. What is wrong with Marinco!
> 
> Unfortunately, I've forgotten whether mine are 15 or 20 amps. This is why I need to liveaboard!


are those GFCI? that sounds too low. I found water resistant for $18 and is likely what i will use as they are not Levitron. They are from Lowes, so locally available.

Perhaps we need to do a group buy? Wonder if any are made in the US. Otherwise they may all be from the same place.


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## Maine Sail

Minnewaska said:


> Found hospital grade receptacles from Leviton are only about $12. What is wrong with Marinco!
> 
> Unfortunately, I've forgotten whether mine are 15 or 20 amps. This is why I need to liveaboard!


There are differing grades of "hospital" even within a brand. You won't find nickel plated wipes/contacts etc. in a $12.00 hospital grade GFCI. In the marine environment I find the nickel plated wipes to make the biggest difference. Also the Hubbell GFCI I use is rated to work at 95% RH.....

If you find a high humidity rated GFCI with nickel plated contacts do please send me the link....!!

Decent hospital grade GFCI's using plated contacts, wipes etc. usually start in the $30.00 - $40.00 range and go up from there....

I look more at the physical construction and humidity specs for use on boats...


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