# So... I have sort of a situation



## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

My friend just got a 1984 McGregor 65.... For free.

This is the boat in question. He knows nothing about sailing. He wants my help moving it. I a decent sailor but A: I've never gone offshore, or even real coastal, B; I don't know much about navigating this area, C the condition of the boat is to be assumed dangerous. D I've never sailed a boat this big! And of course E the motor doesn't run!!!

So my friend who is kind of a dockhead (replace letter where appropriate ) has been picking up boats for a while and storing them trying to flip them etc, but he's just taken it to the next level. He's convinced he'll be able to keep it at anchor in biscuNe bay. Even at dinner key where no one would bother him I don't think he could find a spot for his 9' draft. At 70' mast height (maybe even higher clearance?) I don't think he can do the ICW at all so it's out into the big Atlantic and down to Miami!

Any thought? PrayerS! My best idea is to tow a life preserving dinghy, do what we can but be ready to jump ship!
Anyone want to help us out in any way? Is this at least a decent boat?
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1984-Macgregor-65-673137


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

That boat is a mess.. my advice is to run the other way. Don't get involved.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

From the linked ad: " 52 hp Yanmar diesel engine (currently not working)".

Wanna take a guess as to what else is not working? Several heads, hydraulic winches, anchor windlass for starters. New sails or even used sails for this beast will cost thousands of $$$$$.

This is kind of an odd (ugly) duck offering. MacGregor made their money by building cheaply made niche boats, mostly 26' or less in length. They made 24 of the basic M65 sloop until 1987 and 75 of the pilot house versions until 1995 MACGREGOR 65 PILOT HOUSE sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
you can look up the basic M65 sloop on that site too to see that they only made 24 of them.
They made just under 100 of those boats because they could only find fewer than 100 people stupid enough to buy a luxury sailboat from a niche, discount boat maker.
Please don't get me wrong on this either, I am not a MacGregor basher; there are many happy sailors that own the smaller models of boat from this company which are all 26' or less in length - some of these I have sailed on. The M65 is an anomaly, enigma, pipe dream, odd duck, perhaps desperate idea by MacGregor to grab more high end market share. Now if it were a Swann or Hinckley or some other upscale brand with many other large boats under their belts it might be actually worth something.
Full disclosure: I have never been aboard one but this one does sound like a heap of headaches if it is being offered for free. There are so many complex systems on a boat like that that could cost hundreds of thousands to fix. 
Fart Louderdale is not that far from Miami though, about 100 miles or more. If you could get the engine working and reliable and the anchor windlass and some electronics you could fairly easily motor it to Miami in a longish day. A 65' boat can cruise at a fairly good speed. It would also be nice to be able to raise some sail so make sure the hydraulic winches and sails are ok otherwise you are motoring all the way. I'm not advising that you do this, I'm just sayin'. 
I'm with Faster on this one: run far and fast.

<


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

CalebD said:


> From the linked ad: " 52 hp Yanmar diesel engine (currently not working)".
> 
> Wanna take a guess as to what else is not working? Several heads, hydraulic winches, anchor windlass for starters. New sails or even used sails for this beast will cost thousands of $$$$$.
> 
> ...





Faster said:


> That boat is a mess.. my advice is to run the other way. Don't get involved.


 Let's be clear here it's not my boat technically it's not even my friends boat until he puts it in his name it's not my problem either I'm just a Skipper a friend with a boating license is willing to help him move it I'm just wondering if it can be done And if I can do it without killing myself or syncing the boat, but then again even if I do whatever unfortunate but I'll get over it hopefully my friend will. it does have an emergency liferaft just in case thank you for your input


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

She'd make a fine restaurant. 

I say go for it.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

HMSVictory said:


> Let's be clear here it's not my boat technically it's not even my friends boat until he puts it in his name it's not my problem either I'm just a Skipper a friend with a boating license is willing to help him move it I'm just wondering if it can be done And if I can do it without killing myself or syncing the boat, but then again even if I do whatever unfortunate but I'll get over it hopefully my friend will. it does have an emergency liferaft just in case thank you for your input


Puh-leeze. You're both sounding a little loony and you've actually just answered your own question. Reread what you just wrote, then do what's right and advise your friend (as a friend and an experienced sailor should do) to quit this before something really stupid happens. The Coast Guard has enough things to do :eek


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Free is way to much for that piece. sailing a 60 footer with no engine that will be the most fun part.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

9 ft draft does not work in Biscayne Bay. My boat draws 7 ft 8in and even with local knowledge we touch bottom and ground, when anchored, at low tide. You would just be adding to the derelict boats in the Bay even if you could sail it through the channels into the Bay.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Is this a trick question? That vessel is not seaworthy. Do you know the condition of the sails and standing rigging you'll risk your life standing beneath? Has the included liferaft been appropriately maintained and recertified? Have you ever tried to fix a problem with jammed sails underway on a 70ft mast? (I have, ain't fun and I had a working motor and autopilot to keep us into the wind)

I'm willing to bet that hull needs $100k worth of work to make seaworthy. More to make it saleable. A dingy or liferaft as part of plan A about says it all. 

You're a good friend to even consider it, but fake a heart attack and get out of it.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Walk away. Soooo many issues here.

You will be a dockhead if you do this!


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Evidently these boats sail pretty fast. A friend of mine lost a Bermuda race to one of these many years back. Weird looking long and narrow. Anyway.

Given the description of the boat condition, I wouldn't care if it was a Swan, Hinckley, or and Oyster, I wouldn't put my paper on the line to move it from one mooring to another in the same mooring field. 

One good thought experiment before any delivery is to imagine yourself calling the CG when things go wrong.

"CG, this is ....., we are hard aground and our mast is wrapped around a bridge. I figured without and engine and with all sorts of other stuff broken, and a draft that exceeds the chart, and an air draft that exceeds the bridges, we'd have no problems delivering it to..."

Sorry to pile on, but don't go!


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## captjcook (Sep 27, 2008)

Can't even get into Biscayne Bay through Government Cut, MacArthur is 65'. Entrance at No Name has draft issues. Towing is the only sane option...and, as others have said, run away!


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Making a comment to track this thread. I taught my grand kids there is no such thing as a free puppy. Pretty sure the same goes for boats. You got caller ID right?
When your friend calls, DON'T ANSWER! This has disaster written all over it.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Aw c'mon! This forum has gotten soooo booorrrring lately. Just when someone comes around with something interesting, all the naysayers shut him down. HMSVictory, you got this! And make sure to come back and tell us how it went.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The OP asked for thoughts and prayers. They know exactly how bad an idea this is. Folks that say go for it would presumably volunteer to accompany your dockhead friend on the trip. Let's see how serious they are.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

Aside from all that was already said, this looks like so much WORK. I groan when I get a dust bunny on my 30' boat. Docking and maneuvering seem like an adventure as well, then think about the liability. What if you hit someone's $1M yacht?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Well some people see problems others solutions.

Bad news the bottom will be foul but a diver can fix that in a morning. 

No engine is bad news. Assuming your friend wants to sell it eventually fixing/replacing the engine is something that has to be done. But even with a broke engine using a big RIB say 30 hp and a hip tow will get her out onto the ocean and back in at the other end. Tow the RIB on passage. Also it is your liferaft. 

Bad news 9 ft draft means the ICW is out. So you have to leave through one of the deep exits and sail to where you are going. 

Good news big Macs sail really well. So with some sails not necessarily the right ones but near will do you can get her moving and with a E wind she will be doing well. So you need to have a hard look at what sails are there and are they serviceable for a delivery. If not then Atlantic Sail Traders may have something near that will do. 

You would need to inspect the rigging before you leave. SO at least one member of the crew needs some rigging experience and needs to go up the mast and have a hard look at everything.

But it would be a pity just to move her to Biscayne bay and join the other derelicts. Bi Macs make nice cruising boats, just ask Mr Curly.


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## rnixon (May 7, 2013)

As a friend, I'd want to go over the boat closely with your friend, showing everything that is obviously wrong with it. Perhaps that will persuade them not to risk their life, and those of the people that will attempt to save them. If it is better than feared, then I would want the engine fixing and to study the charts to see if it is even feasible with that draft.

Free can be very tempting, but big boats take big money and even more when they've been let-go.

Roger


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

The advice from most on this forum, if you were looking to buy this boat would be NO WAY. That should probably be advice that you pass on to your friend. However, if he is going to take possession of the 'project', you should insist that is at least minimally seaworthy before you go anywhere. Once he starts looking at what it take$ to even get the thing to a safe moorage, he may walk away.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

A little internet sleuthing (and a slow day at work) and you can see that Zeus is quite some distance from the nearest inlet. https://goo.gl/maps/4vGzJbYniSv You can even see the boat in the aerial photos on the home's Zillow page. 2824 NE 35th St, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33306 | Zillow Google Earth's time lapse feature suggests the boat has been sitting there since 2005. My guess is that the home sold and the new owners aren't sailors ;-) Sure hope all those bridges are drawbridges! Don't give up HMSVictory. Rise to the challenge! I wanna read about this one.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Flee.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Have you considered just towing it to where he wants to keep the boat? In good weather that should not be a big deal.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

"Friends don't let friends do 'Free' boats"


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## PitApe (Feb 28, 2015)

Don't get too close to the event horizon.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Narrow beam.. fast she would be... sad end to another. OP.. don't run.. don't walk. find a new friend!


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Zeus was a dangerous wreck when she was here twenty years ago. If completely restored to boat show quality she will be worth exactly zero. Hilarious.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

You couldn't pay me enough to take that boat that far, in those waters, in her present condition, and I've made a pretty good living moving vessels of all sorts in dubious condition. Have him call Sea Tow or Boat US and have him recount the trip to you over a beer, afterwards.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

If your friend has a few $100,000 spare to fix it, they can afford to have it towed to the new location to work on, but it is not your boat and the trip would provide some colorful anecdotes.

What's the worst that could happen, you die or get really wet.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Calling Captain Gilligan....Professor Darwin has a new client


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Well here's her mother ship, tow er up to Philly maybe some of love will spill over to the baby! 
http://www.ssusc.org

Sent from my NS-P16AT08 using Tapatalk


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

HMSVictory said:


> My friend just got a 1984 McGregor 65.... For free.
> 
> This is the boat in question. He knows nothing about sailing. He wants my help moving it. I a decent sailor but A: I've never gone offshore, or even real coastal, B; I don't know much about navigating this area, C the condition of the boat is to be assumed dangerous. D I've never sailed a boat this big! And of course E the motor doesn't run!!!
> 
> ...


Disappointingly, because I could always do with a good laugh, the ad seems to have been taken down. Link no work.


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## JSL3 (Jun 6, 2007)

MarkSF said:


> Disappointingly, because I could always do with a good laugh, the ad seems to have been taken down. Link no work.


Cached version: 
Used 1984 Macgregor 65, Fort Lauderdale, Fl - 33306 - BoatTrader.com


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Hmmm, well, yes. Oh dear.

Suggest changing the ad to : New marine stove for sale, never used, comes with free boat. $200.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

MarkSF said:


> Hmmm, well, yes. Oh dear.
> 
> Suggest changing the ad to : New marine stove for sale, never used, comes with free boat. $200.


Hey, we need a gas stove. Maybe someone will sail the boat down here and drop it off.


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

gamayun said:


> HMSVictory said:
> 
> 
> > Let's be clear here it's not my boat technically it's not even my friends boat until he puts it in his name it's not my problem either I'm just a Skipper a friend with a boating license is willing to help him move it I'm just wondering if it can be done And if I can do it without killing myself or syncing the boat, but then again even if I do whatever unfortunate but I'll get over it hopefully my friend will. it does have an emergency liferaft just in case thank you for your input
> ...


I guess it was implied that I already did that. He's not the type of person to listen to reason when it's something like this. I'm not sure how many of us really are though. He also doesn't listen to advice that sounds like negativity or being a chicken. And that is al I've been able to get trough to him despite warnings of environmental fines and all the other usual posts from this forum.
The situation is that he'll do it with or without me or anyone else


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

Problem is I'd love to see what happens if/when it moves! Has the makings of a great bar story.


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

krisscross said:


> Have you considered just towing it to where he wants to keep the boat? In good weather that should not be a big deal.


Of course that is basically te plan


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

Update : I did not help him, but someone else did, only to let go of te tow rope in the ft Lauderdale river amidst 100 million dollar yachts and haul ass home. Apparently the boat drifted towards multi million dollar homes until they put out all anchors, only one of which worked







anda_face: They left the boat there and returned to Miami to get another boat. Asked me to help again...

I Drove the tow boat from ft Lauderdale after giving the guy another substantial dose of te typical cowardly sail net type BS(run away, it's over your head , your a silly man who should just be a good little boy and get a catalina 25 efc). He didn't take it of course. Just past port Everglades where the boat should have been seen rising high into the sky, it was not. Rounding the bend it appeared and this is what we saw, it is worse than it looks , it was impaled on a boat lift. Retrospectively I regret doing what most of the people said. Now, this is a much bigger problem.


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

aloof said:


> Zeus was a dangerous wreck when she was here twenty years ago. If completely restored to boat show quality she will be worth exactly zero. Hilarious.


So you know Zeus?


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

So, you are saying that somebody agreed to tow him and, while under tow, untied the tow line and motored away abandoning him and leaving him adrift? Was that an alleged "friend" or somebody he paid?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I thought I might find a local news story about this, but was surprised not to. Ironically, there are online references to S/V Zeus, from a decade ago, that refer to her then as a mold infested, bastardized, hulk. Your friend seems to have more bravado than brains.

I suppose, for soap opera reasons, I'm also interested in how a tow ship just drops a line and takes off. The idea of dropping multiple anchors doesn't make any sense either, they would just foul each other.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Another irresponsible jackass giving sailboaters a bad name.

Did your friend get a title search done to make sure he is actually getting ownership? Did he check for mechanics liens?

This WILL become an ever bigger mess.
Stupid is as stupid does


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

"Retrospectively I regret doing what most of the people said. Now, this is a much bigger problem. "

Not your problem at all, I would never have agreed to go back with him.
I bet there is a whole lot more as to why the first tow got "dropped".
Most everybody gave you good advice - Don't get involved!
As far as your buddy, he reminds me of a perfect saying for this case - "Could be broke and still have more money than brains!"
You warned him and he didn't listen. I'd leave him to deal with the mess all on his own. Might actually learn something if you don't clean up for him.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.



HMSVictory said:


> Update : I did not help him, but someone else did...I Drove the tow boat from ft Lauderdale...


You say you did not help him, but you drove the tow boat for him?



HMSVictory said:


> ...after giving the guy another substantial dose of te typical cowardly sail net type BS(run away, it's over your head , your a silly man who should just be a good little boy and get a catalina 25 efc)...Retrospectively I regret doing what most of the people said. Now, this is a much bigger problem.


You claim that this forum's level-headed advice to walk away was BS, but retrospectively you regret doing what you did? But you didn't to what "most of the people said," because you didn't walk away.

From what I see here, this is a mess that you helped create. Good luck getting out of it.

This kind of stuff gives sailors a bad name.


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## WheresTheBrakes (Sep 29, 2008)

Looking at that pic, I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up costing 30-40k by the time the lift is repaired and the hull is hauled off/salvaged. Spoiler alert : If it stays in the water on an anchor, it's going to happen again.

That's a pretty expensive trip down to Ft. Lauderdale !


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

I've always liked the stories that start out with... "I have this Friend"...

Right up there with..." Hold my beer and watch this "...


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Is anyone left wondering why Florida recently passed the no anchor law for certain areas? 
This episode will just add gas to the fire to expand the no anchor law.
Why do we even offer advice in situations like this? Maybe because we (I know I do) enjoy watching a train wreck as along as no one is harmed.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

This whole thing is a crock of sheet ,. Hey HMS V, Be a friend a tell us the REAL STORY!


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't believe a single word this guy says.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

There could be more (or less) than shear stupidity.going on. Reminds me of our local nemesis ' Captain' Ron Cook, who for an under the table fee will take the papers of large derelict vessels which then mysteriously sink or burn or just run ashore.From Oregon to the tip of Vancouver Island there are hulks with his name on them. Makes a resonable living apparently, sort of a niche market of skills. Personally ,I bet this isn't the case in Florida because these boys ain't bright enough.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

aww... the link doesnt work for me. it is gone??



* correction - google cached it. Wow!! Amazing, and it must have been some boat in its day. Now its just a nightmare. What a shame!







*** ughh!! edt - bad situation. WTF is wrong with people???


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

read back a bit.. it's been "saved" on a boat lift about 1/5 it's size


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
> 
> You claim that this forum's level-headed advice to walk away was BS, but retrospectively you regret doing what you did? But you didn't to what "most of the people said," because you didn't walk away.
> 
> ...


Ironically, I read that as he regrets taking the cowardly advice of sailnet naysayers, thereby allowing this to happen instead of being a real Captain Ron and " getting her out there" in other words, he regrets taking good advice to stay way and wishes he went down with the ship.


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## HMSVictory (Mar 14, 2016)

Sal Paradise said:


> TakeFive said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
> ...


r u really all too thick not to realize that the guy only sank the ship because he had no one to tow him and didn't know an anchor from his ass(many of you might not) all he needed was someone there who knew what they are doing. And I have been sailing since I was a kid, and I live on a boat.ive owned maybe 4 or 5, I have a captains license and to tow a boat from port Everglades to government cut with more than double the original yanmar HP is no big deal. If anyone on here would be afraid to do it for lack of skills I'd call you a joke of a sailor


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

So, HMS Victory, I'm curious, why did the first person who towed him abandoned him abruptly?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

HMSVictory said:


> r u really all too thick not to realize that the guy only sank the ship because he had no one to tow him and didn't know an anchor from his ass(many of you might not) all he needed was someone there who knew what they are doing. And I have been sailing since I was a kid, and I live on a boat.ive owned maybe 4 or 5, I have a captains license and to tow a boat from port Everglades to government cut with more than double the original yanmar HP is no big deal. If anyone on here would be afraid to do it for lack of skills I'd call you a joke of a sailor


You had me at "r u".

I love you.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

The owner sank it? Last I saw was a picture of it hard aground and against a dock.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

So sorry " captain " I must have thought you were a poster called 
" sailingnewb" who got banned and his thread deleted about his sunken sailboat in Florida awhile back.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Victory and his buddy are further proof that Darwin's entire theory was wrong, otherwise these types of people would have been long extinct.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

HMSVictory said:


> r u really all too thick not to realize that the guy only sank the ship because he had no one to tow him and didn't know an anchor from his ass(many of you might not) all he needed was someone there who knew what they are doing. And I have been sailing since I was a kid, and I live on a boat.ive owned maybe 4 or 5, I have a captains license and to tow a boat from port Everglades to government cut with more than double the original yanmar HP is no big deal. If anyone on here would be afraid to do it for lack of skills I'd call you a joke of a sailor


Your rudeness is uncalled for.


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

Is Victory going to leave now before we find out the end of the story? I've really been enjoying the saga.


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## Fau (May 13, 2012)

Yes. This has been quite a saga!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

We were all trolled enough to make to 3 pages where he finally insults us all not just a few

Sent from my NS-P16AT08 using Tapatalk


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

deniseO30 said:


> We were all trolled enough to make to 3 pages where he finally insults us all not just a few


But we don't know the ending. I'm not going to get all bent out and lose the rest of the story. This was just plain fun!


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

HMSVictory said:


> r u really all too thick not to realize that the guy only sank the ship because he had no one to tow him and didn't know an anchor from his ass(many of you might not) all he needed was someone there who knew what they are doing. And I have been sailing since I was a kid, and I live on a boat.ive owned maybe 4 or 5, I have a captains license and to tow a boat from port Everglades to government cut with more than double the original yanmar HP is no big deal. If anyone on here would be afraid to do it for lack of skills I'd call you a joke of a sailor


I don't think you can blame people on an online forum for some guy taking a completely wrecked derelict boat, trying to tow it somewhere where it wouldn't fit and then his tow boat dumping the line leaving him to drift away?


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

HMSVictory said:


> r u really all too thick not to realize that the guy only sank the ship because he had no one to tow him and didn't know an anchor from his ass(many of you might not) all he needed was someone there who knew what they are doing. And I have been sailing since I was a kid, and I live on a boat.ive owned maybe 4 or 5, I have a captains license and to tow a boat from port Everglades to government cut with more than double the original yanmar HP is no big deal. If anyone on here would be afraid to do it for lack of skills I'd call you a joke of a sailor


The only "thick" " joke" here are the people involved with that derelict scow.


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

Time to put this one to bed, doubt he will be back around.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Squidd said:


> Right up there with..." Hold my beer and watch this "...


I saw it in a cartoon once, and I'm pretty sure it'll work!


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

Tanski said:


> Time to put this one to bed, doubt he will be back around.


Where is Harvey when you need him for the other side of the story? Problem is that if he sunk it, and the water isn't hundreds of feet deep, then the USCG will get involved and make him bring it back up at outrageous cost due to it being a danger to shipping.

I knew someone locally who took a prospective buyer out for a trial sail. The dude said he knew the area, but apparently he lied. He got the boat too close to Bald Rock Ledge in Frenchman's Bay and not only did he run aground but he put a huge gash in the Fiberglas hull and it sank in 70 feet of water. The USCG said it was a hazard to the shipping lanes and needed to be removed. Why it would be in the shipping lanes is beyond me since the shipping lanes wouldn't be close to the rock, but perhaps the tide could move it. Luckily he had insurance to pay for the raising. The buyer decided not to buy the boat after having been rescued off the rock.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Zarathu said:


> Where is Harvey when you need him for the other side of the story? Problem is that if he sunk it, and the water isn't hundreds of feet deep, then the USCG will get involved and make him bring it back up at outrageous cost due to it being a danger to shipping.
> 
> I knew someone locally who took a prospective buyer out for a trial sail. The dude said he knew the area, but apparently he lied. He got the boat too close to Bald Rock Ledge in Frenchman's Bay and not only did he run aground but he put a huge gash in the Fiberglas hull and it sank in 70 feet of water. The USCG said it was a hazard to the shipping lanes and needed to be removed. Why it would be in the shipping lanes is beyond me since the shipping lanes wouldn't be close to the rock, but perhaps the tide could move it. Luckily he had insurance to pay for the raising. The buyer decided not to buy the boat after having been rescued off the rock.


Well I guess he would have been given a pretty good discount!


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

My wife's friends father was willing to give me a free boat. My wife ACTUALLY wanted it. Overall, it was too bad but I tried to explain to her that a "free" boat, even in working condition is never free. Add an engine, bottom paint, new rigging and slip fees and bam! 8k that was supposedly "free". Oh, did I mention, we already have a boat?


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## oysterman23 (Jul 22, 2011)

I received a free boat when I least expected it and fortunately had the skills and time to bring her back to shape. But as all have said it aint free period and rarely are they given without reason! Beware those unspoken reasons. I was lucky he had too much on his hands another boat dock fees etc etc...She hadnt sold (dirty and unkempt!) Several hundred hours later she's shipshape and prettier each season but it aint done yet!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

You don't have a situation. Your friend doesn't either, if he hasn't taken ownership yet. So far your dockhead buddy is picking up used boats and storing them. Trying to sell them isn't the same as selling them. Run like hell.
Nothing is free.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Its pathetic that we read this crap. 

People are sailing around the world right now, a poster here hundreds of miles off shore had to make a critical decision to run from a storm. Everyday sailors are putting their boats in all over the east coast . 

These idiots can't tow a boat a few miles down a canal without holing it, damaging someones dock and boat and abandoning the whole mess for the CG to remove.

Eight pages.. really... stupid.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Pity some of these guys don't get some sponsors .Spreading the company name far and wide to a gullible audience with such an exciting tale of common interest has got to be cost effective advertising regardless of outcome. Maybe common sense and sense of humour are not in sync. Either way ,it would be good to get a local update on the screw up (the rest of the story)


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## WheresTheBrakes (Sep 29, 2008)

It looks like theres an active member in Ft Lauderdale, Alex Garcia.. I'll try sending him a message and see if he'll jump in and report from the bridge


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

At what point did his lousy judgment become your problem? If he was an addict rather than an impulsive dreamer, people might call you co-dependent. Maybe your best course would be to let him make his own mistakes and learn what he will from them--but it would be a disservice to help him to make them.
I don't mean to sound so blunt, but you asked.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Wait a sec, Vallely, He tells us he's a licenced captain, owned boats and even lived aboard.Thinks he's got oodles of knoledge . Asking others for opinions was obviously a mistake for a mariner such as he is. He probably will read this so I keep the grammar and spelling at his level of comprehension to allow him to feel as if he done nothing wrong and stuff.


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## SV Siren (Mar 8, 2013)

I got this off the Sailboat Swap Shop Page of facepoo posted one hour ago, last names with held..

This mess of a saga continues....

‎Daniel XXXXX‎ to Sailboat Swap Shop
..
The hulk of zuess: free to the fool who will take her! This 65 foot macgregor wreck , all 10klbs of scrap ballast and a dozen winches can all be yours ... Well what's left of the keel after the c bend that us!!! Give me a call! We might even pay you!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=502221329988634&set=pcb.805382629598077&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=502221403321960&set=pcb.805382629598077&type=3&theater

Comments
Paul XXXXX You guys actually tried to move that? What happened? I'll have to check on sailnet later.

Daniel XXXXX Actually I refused, warned the new owner of environmental fines etc... And alas, the one towing it had a fight with the wife, zipped home abandoning his charge in the middle of fort Lauderdale's busiest part of ICW... The boat beached on the state attorneys boat lift, impaling it through the side, and today the salvage company refused to move it for less than double their quote. Enter marine cop division were there including the mayor of Fort Lauderdale , and they slapped a good ol derelict sticker on her, nay! Two stickers for good measure!

Marc XXXXX 'Tis a tale of a hapless ship.

Paul XXXXX Ouch. A shame in many respects, a decent if a bit odd boat. The winches etc should be worth a decent whack at least.

Ray XXXXXXXX and making friends for sailors every where

Ray XXXXXX, Paul XXXXX you should find out what kind of fines they are going to stick on that boat first .

Daniel XXXXX, Ray XXXXXXXX The fines will not be associated with the boat what nonsense

Paul XXXXX I have absolutely no interest in the boat!

Alexander XXXXXXX Where is she located and is this a titled deal?

Ray XXXXXXXX, Daniel XXXXX , if that boat leaks fuel into the water the boat owner is not going to be charged ? then why am i carrying insurance for that


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

The Paul is me, shame to see the boat where she is, but not exactly a surprise ending one way or another.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Paul, sad for the boat but yes but, who gets the bills? Is what I wonder. At least 3 were responsible.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I wonder if the title ever changed hands? The old owner could be on the hook for some of this.

Crashed into the state attorney's dock! This will not help the cruising boats fight against anchoring bans.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

And yet somehow we all seem to be drawn towards these old fashioned train wrecks. This one had "Bad Idea" written all over it from the get go.
Add in that it is in the state of Florida so stuff like this happens every day, almost.


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## Salty Mike (Nov 3, 2015)

So what sank her?


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)




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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

So.... she's now stuck in the middle of the channel? And so now, the municipal and state powers and federal powers that be are fighting to see who has jurisdiction to force somebody to pay for this mess?

Is this the circumstance now? Just trying to make sense of it. 

Stupid sailor follies are so much fun. And they wouldn't be this much fun if all of us hadn't done many things out on the water which also resulted in difficult and even bad things happening. 

After all, the water doesn't like us. it doesn't care for us land animals, and it does everything it can to screw around with us.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

CalebD said:


> And yet somehow we all seem to be drawn towards these old fashioned train wrecks.


Ain't that the truth? It's like a wreck on the side of the highway, and everybody has to slow WAAAAY down, so that they can take a good, long gawk at it!


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

denverd0n said:


> Ain't that the truth? It's like a wreck on the side of the highway, and everybody has to slow WAAAAY down, so that they can take a good, long gawk at it!


Yeah...even some guy changing a tire will slow the traffic line to a halt and turn a regular day to bumper to bumper traffic.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Okay, one of my pet peeves...

Everywhere you go, of course, people will slow down to look at an accident on the side of the road. Florida, however, is the only place I have ever lived where an accident on the SOUTHBOUND side of the highway will result in a longer backup on the NORTHBOUND side than it does on the SOUTHBOUND side. Yes, that's right, people slow down SO MUCH, just to gawk at the accident--remember, they're on the other side of a divided highway, so absolutely no real reason to slow down--that I have seen 5+ miles of backups for an accident on the OTHER side of the highway, when the backup on the side where the accident was only stretched a couple of miles!

Honest to God, no exaggeration, I have seen a person come to a full stop, blocking an interstate highway lane for several seconds, just so they could take a good, long gawk at an accident on the other side of the median. The stupidity of it just boggles the mind.


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## UsCa (Jun 8, 2016)

I would say your friend has a dream to fix her up. if he has the time a Money it would be a nice boat to Cruise on The beam is a bit small for such a Large boat But after reading all the post most of you were quite rude. All he was asking is what if could this be done. My thought's are with a Mast that is 70 feet high and is in Danger of hitting some on the way out Why not Just Remove the Mast tie it on the side and Hire a Tow boat to transport it to it's new place of moorage to me it look like it was not taken care of at all. But it would be very possible to get it down there it seams to float. Yes in seeing the pic's it looks like it drifted into shallow water on ran aground and the tide came in and before it righted took on water. But YES I do feel that in Capable hands this boat would make it but I would not try to sail her at all. YES TOWING it with the Mast removed would work I would make sure it would steer of Coarse but with a Good tow boat and a strong Cable or an 1 to 2 inch tow rope It would be possible to make the trip. This Guy has a Dream Everything it Possible if It is thought out Correctly and Planned perfectly Don't Bash the Guy for having a Dream if fixed this Boat would be a Very Nice Ocean Cruiser it has done it before as long as the hull is intact things can be fixed it might take him 20 years but if he has a Good spot on the hard with no fees there are Plenty of Old boats in worse shape that he could gather parts from. If I had the time and the funds to take on a Project of that Caliber and Especially a Place to store it with no cost it could be Done and Restored to a fully capable sailing vessel once again I actually Applaud this Gentleman whom was only asking if it could be sailed down Of Coarse it couldn't be But not one of you even Suggested that with the Mast removed it would make it I'm Sure with no Problems I don't know what the Water is like there but I would defiantly Check it Draft and find a Time and a Tide that would take it to a Coarse that would allow a Successful Tow If You Do take on this ADVENTURE Please be careful and Just Tow it where it need to GO and Please Do Remove the Mast so it doesn't hit anything and Most of all Plan Everything very Carefully and you should have a Successful Trip I wish you the Best of Luck and would Love to here more about what You decided to do. But Go For it! and Do It SAFELY


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^After you watch the paint dry, watch the grass grow and collect your pension check while arguing about the rights of boats to anchor, what else might there be to do in Florida? I gues you could tune in to fox news for your daily dose of soft porn...


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## svGabriel (Jul 3, 2012)

UsCa said:


> I would say your friend has a dream to fix her up. if he has the time a Money it would be a nice boat to Cruise on The beam is a bit small for such a Large boat But after reading all the post most of you were quite rude. All he was asking is what if could this be done. My thought's are with a Mast that is 70 feet high and is in Danger of hitting some on the way out Why not Just Remove the Mast tie it on the side and Hire a Tow boat to transport it to it's new place of moorage to me it look like it was not taken care of at all. But it would be very possible to get it down there it seams to float. Yes in seeing the pic's it looks like it drifted into shallow water on ran aground and the tide came in and before it righted took on water. But YES I do feel that in Capable hands this boat would make it but I would not try to sail her at all. YES TOWING it with the Mast removed would work I would make sure it would steer of Coarse but with a Good tow boat and a strong Cable or an 1 to 2 inch tow rope It would be possible to make the trip. This Guy has a Dream Everything it Possible if It is thought out Correctly and Planned perfectly Don't Bash the Guy for having a Dream if fixed this Boat would be a Very Nice Ocean Cruiser it has done it before as long as the hull is intact things can be fixed it might take him 20 years but if he has a Good spot on the hard with no fees there are Plenty of Old boats in worse shape that he could gather parts from. If I had the time and the funds to take on a Project of that Caliber and Especially a Place to store it with no cost it could be Done and Restored to a fully capable sailing vessel once again I actually Applaud this Gentleman whom was only asking if it could be sailed down Of Coarse it couldn't be But not one of you even Suggested that with the Mast removed it would make it I'm Sure with no Problems I don't know what the Water is like there but I would defiantly Check it Draft and find a Time and a Tide that would take it to a Coarse that would allow a Successful Tow If You Do take on this ADVENTURE Please be careful and Just Tow it where it need to GO and Please Do Remove the Mast so it doesn't hit anything and Most of all Plan Everything very Carefully and you should have a Successful Trip I wish you the Best of Luck and would Love to here more about what You decided to do. But Go For it! and Do It SAFELY


uhh...you might want to re-read the thread a little closer. The friend did "go for it" and "it" failed spectacularly.The boat did not take on water from a rising tide...it is impaled on a boat lift (belonging to Floirda state attorney no less). So in hindsight, I'd say it looks like everyone here who said run away turned out to be spot on in their advice.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^ A big day for internet advice on sailnet...Just can't cure stupid can we?


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## UsCa (Jun 8, 2016)

svGabriel said:


> uhh...you might want to re-read the thread a little closer. The friend did "go for it" and "it" failed spectacularly.The boat did not take on water from a rising tide...it is impaled on a boat lift (belonging to Floirda state attorney no less). So in hindsight, I'd say it looks like everyone here who said run away turned out to be spot on in their advice.


I guess I didn't read it carefully And thought the pics were a while ago I am sorry for my Ignorance but I thought if he was to remove the mast he would make it Sorry for any Ignorance on my Part It was early when reading I had to have missed the most important part of the Story MY Bad and I'm Sorry if I offended any one


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

This is all great, but what's happening with the boat?


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

midwesterner said:


> This is all great, but what's happening with the boat?


Didn't it sink? And aren't the USCG, the Mayors office, the EPA, the FBI, and the Veteran's Administration fighting about whose fault it is and what to do about it?


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I can't believe that someone would chuck off a tow line to a boat and let it drift because 'he had a fight with his wife'

christ


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

alctel said:


> I can't believe that someone would chuck off a tow line to a boat and let it drift because 'he had a fight with his wife'


I'm sure there's more to that story.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

alctel said:


> I can't believe that someone would chuck off a tow line to a boat and let it drift because 'he had a fight with his wife'
> 
> christ


No kidding. I hope that it wasn't someone he considered a friend.

Any fight I have with my wife can usually wait long enough that I think that I could get the other boat to a safe anchorage. (Unless she's leaving me and taking my car and my dog).


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Hey, did anybody hear about that guy who got a 65 foot junk sailboat with a dead motor who talked a friend into helping him tow it down the Florida ICW then didn't anchor it properly and had it drift into the dock of the Florida State Attorney poking a hole in the hull and taking on water lodging it in place?


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I want to know more about the guy towing him and the argument with his wife


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

alctel said:


> I want to know more about the guy towing him and the argument with his wife


Good luck with that. The OP's not talking anymore, and when he does its to accuse us of trolling him.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

alctel said:


> I want to know more about the guy towing him and the argument with his wife


She left a cake out in the rain, and she's accusing *him* of never being able to find the recipe again.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

The political commentary was deleted. If you want to engage, you can do it in the off off topic section created for it.


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## Aloha27 (Oct 5, 2004)

Late to the party but all I can hear is "The Benny Hill Theme"


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

I unsubscribed but I couldn't help coming back for another look.
I guess it's true, everybody loves to watch a trainwreck.

I was not disappointed :devil


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Donna_F said:


> The political commentary was deleted. If you want to engage, you can do it in the off off topic section created for it.


A little sensitive are we.


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

albrazzi said:


> A little sensitive are we.


I agree with moderation. As it was my commentary, I agree that it really belonged somewhere else.


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## gptyk (Mar 20, 2013)

Minnesail said:


> She left a cake out in the rain, and she's accusing *him* of never being able to find the recipe again.


I don't think that I can take it.

It took so long to bake it.

......

I want to know why the tow was dropped. Got to be a story there.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

albrazzi said:


> A little sensitive are we.


Sensitive? There is a sub-forum for those who can't avoid turning everything into a political screed. Keep it where it belongs and no one will have anything to be sensitive about.

But, yeah. I specifically avoid the politics sub-forum. I come here to read about sailing. I am not interested in anyone's political crap, no matter which side of the aisle they might favor. So keep it where it belongs!


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

The fight with the wife and the tow being dropped are probably related to a bounced check for said tow and the wife admonishing the husband for taking the job without the funds clearing first. This is just conjecture on my part.


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## Aloha27 (Oct 5, 2004)

A little reminiscent of the stubborn kid and the 1939 Angleman ketch "Sea Witch" a couple of years ago.
Good times.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

It's a shame. But be that as it may, I'll bet that John Q. Public (that's you and me) are going to be footing the bill to take care of this environmental mess.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

This thread is probably dead, but you can kill some more time and get a few laughs by reading the comments on that FB page that was linked earlier. Someone actually said this:
"Raise her, take everything out that's removable, washer down and you may be able to repower, and new wiring and have a good start to a great project...."


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

gptyk said:


> I want to know why the tow was dropped. Got to be a story there.


 Maybe she was sinking and the tow captain did not want a part in it.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Donna_F said:


> The political commentary was deleted. If you want to engage, you can do it in the off off topic section created for it.


You didnt get it all.
Clean up in isle 5 please


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

The boat is now on CL for $33k , claims it's worth 3 times that - good luck to next dreamer


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

lying privilege?

1985 Macgregor 65 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

ear:
1985
Length:
65'
Engine/Fuel Type:
/

Located In:
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Hull Material:
Fiberglass
YW#:
78490-2975741

Current Price:
US$ 33,500

65' McGregor sailboat in Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Water/keel/hull damage to be determined. Photos, specs, and additional info coming soon.

Photo shown is sistership, not actual boat.

Selling as salvage as is where is.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

That vessel is worth the used value of it's salvageable parts, less the cost to dispose of the remainder. Likely a negative number. 

Could be sucker born every minute, that just has to have a 65 footer (they can't actually afford).


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

So its still on the channel floor under water?


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Zarathu said:


> So its still on the channel floor under water?


on face book it's showing a pic of it still sunk.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

deniseO30 said:


> Selling as salvage as is where is.


He is asking $33k+ for a sunken hulk!?! Whatever it is that he is on, I think I want some the next time I am feeling bad.

Some people really are completely clueless, aren't they?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

denverd0n said:


> He is asking $33k+ for a sunken hulk!?! Whatever it is that he is on, I think I want some the next time I am feeling bad.
> 
> Some people really are completely clueless, aren't they?


He started this adventure dumb as a rock and apparently he is still very much like that now.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

That's probably the salvage Quote he got. That's just to float it. Just reading between the lines here.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

albrazzi said:


> That's probably the salvage Quote he got. That's just to float it. Just reading between the lines here.


Or the environmental fines he's facing...


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Squidd said:


> Or the environmental fines he's facing...


Yea either way, he got it for free and someone's going to pay to get to the same point? Long shot getting longer..


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> lying privilege?
> 
> 1985 Macgregor 65 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> 
> ...


That listing agent calls himself a "Licensed Yacht and Ship Salesman" just the act of listing this seems to me a violation of any kind of ethics, given he is trying sell something that will never float again. Seems he could well loose his "license" if there is any kind of review board.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Hmm...A brightly colored sinking old hulk of dubious fame appeals to a few morons who think it might be bought as-is and then be made great again is receiving a huuge amount of unwarranted free exposure on multiple popular internet sites.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> That listing agent calls himself a "Licensed Yacht and Ship Salesman" just the act of listing this seems to me a violation of any kind of ethics, given he is trying sell something that will never float again. Seems he could well loose his "license" if there is any kind of review board.


I don't see why. He isn't making any representations that aren't true. The broker doesn't decide whether or not to sell the boat. The owner wants it sold, has set a price on it, and has contracted with a broker to list it. My guess would be that the broker thinks the owner is just as bat-crap crazy as we all do, but there's nothing unethical about posting a listing on a boat for sale.

Now, if the broker starts lying about the condition of the boat, or the terms of the sale, then that's a different matter. But just listing a boat that no one in their right mind would buy? Nothing unethical about that.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> I don't see why. He isn't making any representations that aren't true. The broker doesn't decide whether or not to sell the boat. The owner wants it sold, has set a price on it, and has contracted with a broker to list it. My guess would be that the broker thinks the owner is just as bat-crap crazy as we all do, but there's nothing unethical about posting a listing on a boat for sale.
> 
> Now, if the broker starts lying about the condition of the boat, or the terms of the sale, then that's a different matter. But just listing a boat that no one in their right mind would buy? Nothing unethical about that.


Well his listing is missing quite a few KNOWN things, like the fact that the boat is sunk. Also listing a boat for sale at thousands times it's value is at the very least unprofessional, but certainly is can be viewed as unethical. Since he is representing himself as an expert one would should be able to believe that his listing is somewhat based on reality and trust that the price is in line. At the very least it is making him look to be a broker that would sell anything for a buck. A respectable broker would say I don't want to be associated with that [email protected]


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## RobDahlgren (May 21, 2016)

I kept wondering what kind of person just tosses the tow rope and motors away. It's hard to imagine a friend or a payed tow boat doing that, but even if I happened upon a sailor I'd never met in trouble I would never do this.

There is only one explanation; The tow boat operator found out his wife was having an affair, with the guy on the McG!


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## McSlash (Jul 14, 2017)

Sorry about opening an old thread, but I just saw this, and registered so I could post. I was the Primary Driver on this boat for 1-1/2 years when it was racing San Francisco Bay.
And yes, I had to deal with MacGregor Bashers there and then as well. 
In 1990 the boat had been heavily modified . . . people are talking here about the 9' draft, hell it had a 9' rudder when I drove it. The keel had been replaced with a 12' blade with a torpedo at the bottom.
Most significantly, the rig had been replaced with much taller, bendy, fractional rig.
My own 26 footer could have fit on Zeus' foredeck.
I joined the crew just before the 1991 SF to Catalina race . . . I think, I am old and retired now, and that was a long time ago.
That was the 25 race - for 25 hours it blew 25kts or higher in 25' seas. Yeah. It was also the only time I drove a Sailboat at 25kts!
We completed the nearly 400 mile race in just under 36 hours, one hour off the record at the time.
During the 25 hour blow, out of a crew of 9, there were only three of us who could handle the boat . . . Drive till you can't, sleep, wake up and drive again.
There were also four Coast Guard Rescues that night, it was a blow.
You know, on a 40' boat, surfing in high seas, you avoid running into the wave ahead, for fear of stalling and spinning out, on Zeus, I used the bow running lights to follow the hollow in the trough. Accelerating upon acceleration, watching the knotmeter climb above 20, watching the rooster tail soaking the boom, listening to what sounded like a combination of fire hoses and tympani, I punched into back the leading wave. I watched from the helm as the boat past through the wave 3' - 4' of water rolling down the deck. I can't imagine what it sounded like below, but the owner rushed up the companionway ladder just in time to have the wave break over his head and pour into the cabin. He turned and glared at me, then looked at the knotmeter, going back up from 22.75kt, turned back to me shaking his head, saying, "You're Reckless", and went back below.
So, you can trash MacGregor65s all you want, all I'll say is, "how fast is your boat?"
And I'll wipe away a tear, when I see the end of a Great Boat.
Rick McCamy


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

McSlash said:


> Sorry about opening an old thread, but I just saw this, and registered so I could post. I was the Primary Driver on this boat for 1-1/2 years when it was racing San Francisco Bay.
> And yes, I had to deal with MacGregor Bashers there and then as well.
> In 1990 the boat had been heavily modified . . . people are talking here about the 9' draft, hell it had a 9' rudder when I drove it. The keel had been replaced with a 12' blade with a torpedo at the bottom.
> Most significantly, the rig had been replaced with much taller, bendy, fractional rig.
> ...


Oh hell yeah!!


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