# Sailing Resume Recommended for Chartering



## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Disregarding the question of formal coursework, when charter companies talk about reviewing a sailing resume, what are the sorts of standards they would have for letting you charter bareboat?

As my northeast sailing summer blissfully works its way through my system, I find myself daydreaming a bit, and wondered what kind of experience would be a prerequisite for charter companies for, say, a week in the BVI, or elsewhere anyone could recommend, for my little family unit on a boat in the mid-thirty foot range?

I don't want to get ahead of myself in terms of planning, but if it's an option in a few years, it'd be great to know...


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I've only chartered from two places, and they couldn't have been more different.

One is very strict and required a checkout sail with one of their captains, even if you have quite a bit of experience and/or ASA 104.

They other basically tossed me the keys and said "There's the Pacific Ocean, have fun!" without checking any of my qualifications.


I would call or email the charter company in question and see what they require. I get the feeling that a lot of them only require a valid credit card...


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

The big guys (I won't mention names) will assess you ON the spot based upon your uploaded "experience" to their website. Wanna get through the on the spot assessment? Come with "questions" that make sense...
Examples:
Starting the engine... key on (glow), wait for how long? then turn to crank... what is maximum crank time, before stop, wait x seconds and start again?
Ask scope questions on anchorage... pick a specific location you "might" have to anchor... If BVIs love to pick Trellis bay, the tidals there are interesting.
Ask proper hailing channel (VHF) to hail X marina if you decide to stop (most of the marinas ignore their own preferred channels, but its nice to know they say they listen to "X").
Generally if you acknowledge various systems on the boat, and ask questions that are relevent, they'll send you on your way.

I've got tons and tons of offshore time as crew, very little as skipper, they allowed me to take our a Leopard 39 (they are crazy), and very little of it is on hard paper... we brought it back in 1 piece... so now I guess they "trust" me. buwahahaha... 

But seriously be genuine, and I'd follow up with, the skippers they "may" assign you with, are freaking geniuses... the local knowledge they have is impressive, and their boat handling is unequaled. If you get "saddled" with one, how bad could it be? It'll likely only be until the first stop, after that you are usually given the helm. If you have to pay for a skipper for a bit, great, pick their brain, learn some tricks and by all means HAVE FUN, its a vacation after all! Don't forget that.


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## twoshoes (Aug 19, 2010)

Cue the Credit Card Captain video. It's always a face-palmer.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Minnesail said:


> ...
> I would call or email the charter company in question and see what they require. I get the feeling that a lot of them only require a valid credit card...


Good advice.
They don't want to refund cc charges but they need to meet insurance requirements.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I was wondering more in terms of what experience was sensible. I'm getting my feet (not) wet in my first cruising boat, though it's only 26', I wondered whether enough trips here in the northeast, overnights and longer days on my obstruction/current/tide/skinny water filled Hudson on my boat over a few years, and getting to where my wife/kid/self work well together would be a good enough answer for people in a sufficiently carefully chosen charter setting...

I'm in no big rush, again, just daydreaming a wee bit.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

IMO, you have enough challenges where you sail to be fine in the Virgins.
Charts, an awareness for weather, etc
You have current down pat...


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

I would agree that you probably already have an acceptable sailing resume for most charter companies. Some will still check you out if you and your resume don't seem to sync, but that might just be getting out of the base and not hitting anything. Others, it almost seems that if the limit on your CC is high enough you are good to go.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

I would agree that you probably alreaqdy have an acceptable sailing resume for most charter companies. Some will still check you out if you and your resume don't seem to sync, but that might just be getting out of the base and not hitting anything. Others, it almost seems that if the limit on your CC is high enough you are good to go.


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## jeremiahbltz2 (Mar 30, 2017)

Hi again!

I've just been writing down every time (more or less) I go sailing, noting down hours, whether or not I was in charge, type of boat, and anything unusual (overnight, anchoring, etc). No idea if that's what charter companies are looking for, but a few of the sailing schools I sent it to found it useful.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

My sense is that that's what you want documented, in case you ever got to 360 and wanted to get a commercial ticket.

Also, a good log makes your claimed experience more believable...

I think of that as the backing documentation for a "sailing resume." I could be mistaken, though...


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Minnesail said:


> I've only chartered from two places, and they couldn't have been more different.
> 
> One is very strict and required a checkout sail with one of their captains, even if you have quite a bit of experience and/or ASA 104.
> 
> ...


We've chartered from perhaps 8 different bases from New England, Florida, USVI, BVI, St Martin, & Antgua. Some of these were multiple charters from the same base over the years.

Yes, there are the detailed checkouts and the not-so detailed checkouts, so your best advice is to check with the charter company and have them email a resume form or download it from their website.

FWIW, I've never taken a sailing course and don't have a 50 ton captain's license, but I've owned boats for 46 years in tidal waters. This means I probably know how to navigate, handle sails, anchor, pick up moorings, and dock. Having a certificate isn't as important as having confidence in boat handling.

It sounds like the OP has the basics down and would find the BVI relaxing. As you move further south along the Caribbean islands, the conditions are more challenging that neophytes might like.

The comments about some charterers being more interested in your credit card ring true. On our first charter in the Virgins (many years ago), I couldn't believe the turn in procedure. "Any problems? Did you enjoy the week? Your taxi is waiting to take you to the airport/hotel." Within minutes we were in a taxi van with 2 other couples and had about 40 minutes to share stories--"what did you like/not like, where did you go, etc.". When we mentioned the marina at Spanish Town, Virgin Gorda, the reaction was priceless: "You docked the boat yourselves?" My guess is the other couples weren't very experienced, but got the boat back in one piece, so everyone was happy.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

We've chartered from Sunsail and from CYOA. Both in the Virgin Islands. Both requested a sailing CV.

Sunsail was OK with a lake-only sailor with a 22 footer from our club skippering his own 32-foot boat. Last year we went on our own and chartered from CYOA who wanted a skills demonstration under the guise of sailing around the basin and showing us the systems. I liked their method. It was stress free and he was able to see if I knew basic helm skills while he was at the mast showing John the various quirks of raising and lowering the sails. Every now and then he would tell me to head for a particular building, tell me to maintain for so long before changing to a specific heading, or tell me to go in reverse, or hold station. 

I imagine if I had hit one of the cruise ships I would have failed. We have no plans to charter with anyone other than CYOA in the future.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

CYOA also check sailing resumes - apparently one of their current owners sent a fake one around to various charter companies and CYOA were the only ones to reject him because it did not stack up. On the strength of that, he bought a boat and put it in charter with them knowing it would likely be better cared for than with the competition. 

Their approach seems not to demand a specific set of achievements, although I think they require ASA-104 or equivalent, but to make sure you can handle yourself and that you are able to enjoy the week without needing to call for help. I agree with Donna.


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## DavorL (Dec 26, 2017)

In Croatia, charter companies are not so strict about the requirements.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Just seeing this thread. I wonder if the OP booked anything this winter. I also wonder if the charter companies have lowered their standards (some were as low as they could get already), in the after math of the hurricane.

I've charted from several companies. From the big kahuna, The Moorings, to the little guy, CYOA and a couple in between. There are pros and cons to each, but I come down on preferring the little guy, especially since they base in STT. CYOA was the only one to do the "check ride" and there's really nothing to it. First, you're not trying out for a position on a Volvo Ocean Race boat and they know it. You never leave the harbor and it really is both an opportunity to check all the systems before you're far away. Sails up, tack, hold a course, basically show you know where the wind is and what some basic sailing helmsmanship means. Very basic, absolutely nothing to worry about.

I've gone there twice now. I was a little anxious on my first and being a new boat, you are not at your best. Didn't seem to matter. On my second trip, I got a very different staff member to do the checkride. The first time I went, the CYOA captain was sharp (in fact a poster here). On my second trip, it was pretty clear that I knew more about the boat I had only slept on for one night than the guy checking me out. He knew it too, but was pretty laid back about it, which was fine.

Obviously, we were cleared for both trips and really enjoyed them. They say, and I believe them, that being a small operator means it is much more difficult to send a chase boat. The big operations have chase boats stationed in remote reached of the VIs already. CYOA wants to know everything works, just as you should. They are the only bareboat company I've ever used where everything worked!

After I was back home, I heard from my first checkride skipper to see how it went and gently mentioned that we knew the boat better than the more recent checkout skipper. He said, because we had successfully been before, they were comfortable sending the new guy. Made sense.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I should add that at the end of the charter with CYOA they had someone dive to check the hull. The people who keep their boats in charter with them should feel good about that. Had the hull been damaged we would have been out our $1500 deposit. We had it returned. We asked if there are a lot of people who don't get there money back and were told "Yes."


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I understand Europe and the Med are quite a bit more stringent than the Caribbean companies, but from what I've seen here, anyone can take anything up to and including a Lagoon or equivalent 52 with only the CC certification of competency. It can be pretty scary at times.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Just seeing this thread. I wonder if the OP booked anything this winter. I also wonder if the charter companies have lowered their standards (some were as low as they could get already), in the after math of the hurricane.
> 
> I've charted from several companies. From the big kahuna, The Moorings, to the little guy, CYOA and a couple in between. There are pros and cons to each, but I come down on preferring the little guy, especially since they base in STT. CYOA was the only one to do the "check ride" and there's really nothing to it. First, you're not trying out for a position on a Volvo Ocean Race boat and they know it. You never leave the harbor and it really is both an opportunity to check all the systems before you're far away. Sails up, tack, hold a course, basically show you know where the wind is and what some basic sailing helmsmanship means. Very basic, absolutely nothing to worry about.
> 
> ...


We, too, have migrated back to St. Thomas after chartering from bases in the USVI, BVI, St. Martin, Anguilla. Over the years we've done Moorings, TMM, CYC(way back!), Sunsail, and Island Yachts. We haven't done CYOA, as we are quite comfortable with Island Yachts, having chartered from them 8 times--anywhere from a 35' to a 46' yacht. They didn't do a checkride, but I will never forget my first checkout with Skip, one of the owners, who did not "skip" any detail. Never had an issue with damage or deposits, but got into the habit of diving on the boat at the first stop, underwater camera in hand, to document any discrepancies below the waterline--"just in case". Island Yachts is a small, family-run operation that does Island Packets exclusively for bareboat charters. Since they are also the Caribbean dealer for Island Packets, it is safe to assume they take good care of their fleet (maybe because they sold the boats?). We were OK'd to take their boats to Anegada, St. Croix, and the SVI, but were told they would not send a chase boat to these places. We never needed one, though.

We did require service in Antigua and St Martin, though and it was rather inconvenient having to lay over a day at Columbier, while a refrigeration mechanic was arranged, after we hiked over to Flamands to reach a phone because the VHF wasn't working. We lost half a day in Antigua to replace a house battery that could not hold up the anchor light overnight. Having the support was helpful, but not having to need it because the boat was properly maintained is infinitely better.

BTW, Our very first Caribbean charter, from CYC out of Benner Bay at the time, was a real eye-opener on the capabilities of some of the charter clientele. We shared a 45 minute taxi ride to the airport with 2 couples who had also just returned their yacht. While comparing notes, we mentioned how cheap the slip fee was at Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour. What impressed these folks wasn't the cost, but that we had docked the boat ourselves!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I think a lot of these people, good rez or not, are in a 'hurry' to go island and 'relax'.
They have their 6/7/10/13 whatever days to rid themselves of what they came from.
Vacation brain may not be wired just right...


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

I am not sure if this will help or not. We did a captained charter for our honeymoon from a certain organization. We then took ASA courses with them, then chartered from them. We have done all of our bare boat charters with them now, 5 totaling 34 days/nights. We have a relationship at this point. If we were to want to charter elsewhere, I would ask the new place to call our 'regular guys' for a reference.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

fallard said:


> We, too, have migrated back to St. Thomas after chartering from bases in the USVI, BVI, St. Martin, Anguilla. Over the years we've done Moorings, TMM, CYC(way back!), Sunsail, and Island Yachts. We haven't done CYOA, as we are quite comfortable with Island Yachts, having chartered from them 8 times--


I know you didn't ask and if you consider this a very rude post, I sincerely apologize in advance.
The Grenadines are by far and away the best sailing and some of the most interesting anchorages in the Antilles. Distances aren't any more than from Virgin Gorda to St.T., and the waters are much more like Anegada than Tortola or St Thomas. There are good restaurants, serving local food, in almost every anchorage and some anchorages even have lobster barbecues on the beach. There are still a few anchorages without houses, bars, electricity or road access.
I seriously doubt, after all your charters in the VI, that you would consider the Grenadines crowded, especially outside the holiday season. There are no real channels to cross down there and you are sailing across the wind, so no matter the weather, you are not going to have to take a pasting like you can beating up the Sir Francis Drake Channel.
Check out Doyle's Guide to the Windward Islands. We don't do bareboat and we are not looking for any more charters this season. I just wanted to give those who continually charter in the Leewards a head's up about the southern Windwards and the Grenadines.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> ....The Grenadines are by far and away the best sailing and some of the most interesting anchorages in the Antilles..


Great input. Who would you say are the top 3 bareboat companies and what's the best way to get to the island they are on.

I've chartered from Horizon in BVI and know they are in St. Vincent as well. I thought they were a good operator, even though I wasn't a fan of the Bavaria I rented. I think there is one airline going from the US to StV, although, I think most have to fly into Barbados and then puddle jump over to StV.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Great input. Who would you say are the top 3 bareboat companies and what's the best way to get to the island they are on.
> 
> I've chartered from Horizon in BVI and know they are in St. Vincent as well. I thought they were a good operator, even though I wasn't a fan of the Bavaria I rented. I think there is one airline going from the US to StV, although, I think most have to fly into Barbados and then puddle jump over to StV.


I haven't bareboated and have no input from those who have down here, but I've noticed that "Sail Grenadines", located in Bequia, has some nice modern and apparently well kept boats. The larger companies probably have fleets in St Vincent (a safe area) and Grenada, but I would avoid sailing out of Grenada unless it is just way economically worth while. Many sail from Martinique, but that is a long, tough sail if the wind is up, as it is from St Lucia, and roughly 19 to 24 hours of travel each way to the Grenadines and back.
It's probably cheaper to fly directly to St. V. from the states. St V has just opened a new, very nice (again apparently, as I've not been there) international airport, so flying in should be easy. Then, if going on to Bequia, there is ferry service on *big* ferries, not lil tiny wet, rocking boats ($50.00 EC rt).


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

I second Capta's statement about the Grenadines...When we asked our 5 year-old grandson his favorite thing after a two week sailing vacation there he listed ten things!

Much better beam reach sailing than the Virgins. Our avatar is Moon Dancer going hard to windward in trying to get back to Tortola!

Never charted there, only on our own boat.

Phil


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

capta said:


> I know you didn't ask and if you consider this a very rude post, I sincerely apologize in advance.
> The Grenadines are by far and away the best sailing and some of the most interesting anchorages in the Antilles. Distances aren't any more than from Virgin Gorda to St.T., and the waters are much more like Anegada than Tortola or St Thomas. There are good restaurants, serving local food, in almost every anchorage and some anchorages even have lobster barbecues on the beach. There are still a few anchorages without houses, bars, electricity or road access.
> I seriously doubt, after all your charters in the VI, that you would consider the Grenadines crowded, especially outside the holiday season. There are no real channels to cross down there and you are sailing across the wind, so no matter the weather, you are not going to have to take a pasting like you can beating up the Sir Francis Drake Channel.
> Check out Doyle's Guide to the Windward Islands. We don't do bareboat and we are not looking for any more charters this season. I just wanted to give those who continually charter in the Leewards a head's up about the southern Windwards and the Grenadines.


Your input is appreciated and I can't figure on why an apology would be necessary for what is a helpful, informative post.

Anyway, we started out in the US & BVI and worked our way down to St Martin, including Anguilla & St Barths. We then went further south to Antigua. That's where we decided to return to the Virgins. We also chartered in SW Florida, but that was not as much fun as the Caribbean. 
When we were in Antigua, we encountered locals who were not happy campers and made us uncomfortable, like the 20-something who tried to splash us with his jet ski as we were dingying to shore in Deep Harbour. There were 2 other, minor incidents during the week by inconsiderate locals that made us feel uncomfortable. We are an older couple and don't need to travel to places where we don't feel secure. Looking at some of the reviews by cruisers further south, we considered that it would only get worse if we were to continue further south along the Antilles. We also were discouraged by the awkward travel arrangements to get to some of the more attractive islands.

So, we decided that we would return to the Virgins and take the "path less travelled" by the typical bareboater. That meant exploring more of the USVI, exploring Anegada (via rental car) exploring St Croix (also via rental car), and spending a week in the Spanish Virgins. Our intent is to have as relaxing a charter as possible, including staying ashore at the end of the charter at places like the Sugar Mill on Tortola. The BVI can get boring after 7 or 8 trips if you stick with the "sample itinerary", but revisiting places like The Baths can be relaxing, especially if you take a slip in Spanish town and taxi to the top of the Baths. Being somewhat familiar with the local scene provides for a different experience, such as having dinner at the Top of The Baths or Coco Maya. So far, we've probably spent about 110 days in Caribbean waters, with about 85 days or so in the collective Virgins.

We are getting older, however, to the point where bareboating is becoming more work and less play than it used to be, so it seems that we are edging to the bareboat exit. The Leewards are not in the cards for us.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SVGs reputation has been a beautiful place for wealthy yachties, but some tough crime problems for the locals. Several years ago, I remember reading about a severe rape problem (locals not tourists). Like most third world countries, I don't think you wander the unlit streets at night. I wouldn't/don't wander St Thomas' streets at night either! I think it's worth considering, the sailing sounds nice.

I too find myself returning to the USVI/BVI because it's so easy and familiar. There are many flights to STT and it's closer. That does make a quick, one week, mid-winter vacation easier and more relaxing in a way. You could theoretically avoid the beat up the channel, if you choose destinations across it each day. But I never seem to. I've beat into 35kt winds to get to North Sound from Norman. Arrived in the mooring field, and the boat next to us asked if we were nuts. 

We've had other couples with us a couple of times, who have never been before. It does mean a repeat of some of the standards, but it is fun to see others experience it for the first time. On our last trip, we went to Foxy's three times on the same day! Ever notice they play the same dated music that was wailing at college frat parties, when we were kids? Yea, it sets the mood. 

This is our year off. We'll see what next winter brings, but it won't surprise me if we just default to what's quick and easy and we know like the back of our hand. All the couples that have come before, want to come again, plus a few more that sail with us aboard our boat. It's a challenge to pick who to bring. That's a nice problem to have.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Off Topic kinda... The idea of term charter doesn't appeal to me because sailing has always been on my own boat... it's not JUST sailing and it's not JUST a great location... both of which have inherent appeal.

So the options for me/us is to sail to the beautiful places we know are out there... or have our boat delivered or shipped and fly there and sail for weeks or months (if we can). Having done the 2 weeks or so ocean passages which were thrilling, fun, frightening, and boring getting there is not as interesting to me as BEING there.

I suppose the economics is the driving factor. What is return shipping to and from the Caribbean from New England? What would hiring a delivery crew these days be for the same? On the plus side all the winter storage costs are not there. Flying to and from is the same as chartering... so that doesn't enter the equation. And of course you don't lose the 4 weeks getting back and forth.

Thoughts?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

SanderO said:


> Off Topic kinda... The idea of term charter doesn't appeal to me because sailing has always been on my own boat... it's not JUST sailing and it's not JUST a great location... both of which have inherent appeal.
> 
> So the options for me/us is to sail to the beautiful places we know are out there... or have our boat delivered or shipped and fly there and sail for weeks or months (if we can). Having done the 2 weeks or so ocean passages which were thrilling, fun, frightening, and boring getting there is not as interesting to me as BEING there.
> 
> ...


I think the greatest plus to term charter is that you are exploring an area with an experienced guide who can help you get the most out of your experience. It could also be pleasant not to worry about provisioning, cooking and navigating the boat in a strange area, not that navigating the Caribbean is the least bit difficult. If the VI is the kindergarten of sailing, then the rest of the eastern Antilles is grammar school.
For instance, we love to do bus roulette, go to the bus station, close our eyes, and pick a bus to go on for the day. We have a ball, and the locals try their very best to tell us of their island. But when we take a tour with a cab driver, we see and hear things that we completely missed on the exact same road, on the bus.
I do not believe that in general, security on any of the islands is a great concern. It is hugely blown out of proportion for some strange reason, and just like in your home town, there are places it is best not to wander in, day or night, these days. The exception being that we avoid the hurricane aftermath areas up island, and all but the Young Island anchorage in St. Vincent. I have never heard of any problems for hotel guests in St. V., however.
In point of fact, Charlotte Amalie and St Croix are probably two of the most dangerous areas in all of the Caribbean. There have been numerous nights when anchored in Long Bay, that I've heard a fusillade of gun shots coming from the town. I'm much more concerned about having the boat hit by a stray shot there, than any intentional crime down island.
There are a goodly number of charter boats that work the NE in summer and the Antilles in winter. They slog back and forth each year and there is no way that those trips do not take a serious toll on boat and gear. Chartering is hard enough on a boat, considering that one has no weather windows and must move in even the roughest weather.
It would make a great deal more sense to ship a boat back and forth, especially considering that the boat could be painted on at least one of these trips on a ship. I did winters in the Carib and summers in the Med for a few years, but that is a young captains game, if one is sailing anything under 100 feet.
At my age, I'm considering storing our boat for a month and flying to the Med to do a few bareboat charters, rather than doing two more TransAts, much to my wife's disappointment, I must say. However, much of that thinking is because of the Schengen regulations.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

SanderO said:


> Off Topic kinda... The idea of term charter doesn't appeal to me because sailing has always been on my own boat... it's not JUST sailing and it's not JUST a great location... both of which have inherent appeal.
> 
> So the options for me/us is to sail to the beautiful places we know are out there... or have our boat delivered or shipped and fly there and sail for weeks or months (if we can). Having done the 2 weeks or so ocean passages which were thrilling, fun, frightening, and boring getting there is not as interesting to me as BEING there.
> 
> ...


Too expensive. I did a little googling and found people shipping smaller sailboats from Carribean to Med for around $30k and up , and mentions of shipping a boat from Florida to the VI for about $20k. One way.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Sal Paradise said:


> Too expensive. I did a little googling and found people shipping smaller sailboats from Carribean to Med for around $30k and up , and mentions of shipping a boat from Florida to the VI for about $20k. One way.


I've heard that prices are about half that, and considering the wear and tear on the boat, crew expenses and insurance, I'd not consider it all that expensive.


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## jeremiahbltz2 (Mar 30, 2017)

FWIW, my first (and to date only) charter was as crew with some racing buddies in the Windward Islands. 2 weeks St Vincent to Grenada. Great sail, plenty of breeze. We did a one-way, apparently the trip back can be less fun depending on the trades. We took decent precautions (clearing everything from the cockpit and locking everything at night). Sailing was pretty great, but also there were definitely people trying to scam us. Not sure how much that happens in the BVIs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Had a dock neighbor a few years ago that shipped his Hinckley Bermuda 40 from the VIs, when he moved back to the states. I thought he said $20k, one way. It made a bit more sense for him, because he packed his entire personal contents inside the boat. The shipping company charges by the square foot, not the pound. Imagine what it would have cost him to move the contents of his house alone. 

IIRC, there is some variability in pricing. Time of year. Deck hauled, vs sail on. I think there are others, but I've not done it.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Pay to have it motored if you don't want it sailed.
Maybe the comfort of transport hand off with insurance justifies the cost...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

jeremiahbltz2 said:


> but also there were definitely people trying to scam us. Not sure how much that happens in the BVIs.


I'm a little confused by this comment. You were sailing in one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere, SVG, and what you might consider a scam, might have been the locals' attempts to earn a living. We live and sail almost exclusively in the SVG and we see no indication of scamming of any sort.
Sure, the boat boys are trying to get a few bucks off the tourists; the same is true in any city in the US. Really, what is ec$20.00 ($7 and change US) to help you onto a mooring? A lobster dinner (one of the best available *anywhere* in the West Indies) on the beach in the Tobago Cays is around us$42.00pp, but had you considered that every single thing to make that dinner possible had to be brought up from Mayreau or Union Island on a small, outboard powered boat? Want a T-shirt or bag of ice in the National Marine Sanctuary way out there, away from the nearest store? It's gonna cost you, but nobody is pointing a gun at your head and forcing you to buy from them. ec$10.00 (us$3.72) a head park fees? Yeah, that certainly *IS* a scam, isn't it? Have you visited a US national park lately?
I think you are being extremely unfair to those down there trying to help the yachties have a good time and earn a living at the same time. Oh, by the way, have you compared the fees imposed by the BVI government to visit their fair islands, versus those of the SVG? Now that's certainly a scam! A very expensive one at that!


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Sal Paradise said:


> Too expensive. I did a little googling and found people shipping smaller sailboats from Carribean to Med for around $30k and up , and mentions of shipping a boat from Florida to the VI for about $20k. One way.


What about a delivery crew? Can't be 20K from NE to Caribe. Let's say it's 2 weeks and you pay $1,000 week each for crew of 4 and return airfare etc.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

capta said:


> Oh, by the way, have you compared the fees imposed by the BVI government to visit their fair islands, versus those of the SVG? Now that's certainly a scam! A very expensive one at that!


FWIW, whatever fees might be charged by the BVI are already incorporated in your charter fee. when you charter from a BVI base. I don't recall any kind of breakout in the charter invoice.

However, when you charter from the USVI and head over to the BVI, you have to check into customs where you are assessed a number of fees based on the number of days you will be in BVI waters. When we last did that in 2016 the charges for the 4 days we spent in the BVI were:
Other Ports--- $10.00
Customs Services-- $7.00
Cruising Permits-- $72.00
Vessel Licence-- $25.00
National Parks Trust--$70.00
Total-- $184.00

When you check in with a charter boat from the USVI, you can check out at the same time. If you are cruising, you'll have to make another visit to Customs on your way out.

There is no charge when you make the mandatory check in at US Customs (typically Cruz Bay) on your way back to St. Thomas unless you tie up at the customs pier. (Better to pick up a mooring on the other side of Lind Pt and dinghy in.)


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

SanderO said:


> What about a delivery crew? Can't be 20K from NE to Caribe. Let's say it's 2 weeks and you pay $1,000 week each for crew of 4 and return airfare etc.


25 years ago you might have gotten a quality delivery captain for a grand a week. I was getting between 200 to 250 a day on some deliveries. Today you might be able to get a crew member for a grand, I don't know. Deliveries are jobs, not cruises, and a good skipper is going to want professional crew members aboard, not folks looking to learn or hitch a ride. They cost money.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> What about a delivery crew? Can't be 20K from NE to Caribe. Let's say it's 2 weeks and you pay $1,000 week each for crew of 4 and return airfare etc.


A truly capable offshore skipper around here would get $400-$450 per day. It goes down from there for the mate and crew. It is possible to get much less expensive crew that is looking for offshore sea time, if you're interested in taking the chance on inexperienced crew. However, consider the skipper could be the one to become disabled.

Airfare can't be a 60 day in advance discounted fare, it's closer to last min pricing. Provisions for two or more weeks. There may be a delayed departure, so a meal to two ashore. All the deliveries I've paid for had a per diem meal allowance and it was up to them. However, for a big delivery like this a nice meal ashore, after arrival is a nice thing to do. Maybe a raft or satellite rental. Could be a couple of days at the destination to wait for a flight. I think a gratuity is in order, if all goes well. It all adds up fast.

I know you can work it to get the cost down dramatically. However, I think you begin to take your chances with much less qualified and much less reliable crew. The good crews will be sure to make themselves available each year for the passages that pay full rate. Several of the guys I know that do this make 75% of the same deliveries every Fall and Spring. A budget deal may get bumped of have less well known crew.

The other way to keep cost down is to pay professional crew to accompany the owner. I think you really only need 3 capable crew for a safe passage. Watches are 4 on 8 off. The owner wouldn't really need to do anything other than remain on standby to fill in for disabled crew. Personally, I couldn't do that and would want a watch. Could even get paid crew down to one or two.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> A truly capable offshore skipper around here would get $400-$450 per day. It goes down from there for the mate and crew. It is possible to get much less expensive crew that is looking for offshore sea time, if you're interested in taking the chance on inexperienced crew. However, consider the skipper could be the one to become disabled.
> 
> Airfare can't be a 60 day in advance discounted fare, it's closer to last min pricing. Provisions for two or more weeks. There may be a delayed departure, so a meal to two ashore. All the deliveries I've paid for had a per diem meal allowance and it was up to them. However, for a big delivery like this a nice meal ashore, after arrival is a nice thing to do. Maybe a raft or satellite rental. Could be a couple of days at the destination to wait for a flight. I think a gratuity is in order, if all goes well. It all adds up fast.
> 
> ...


I don't know what the per diem rate of a delivery skipper is. Of course one wants a competent crew. And it's sailing so tight schedule are out the door. I haven't done the math and am aware of all the ancillary expenses. I've done deliveries to and from the Caribbean and on to Brazil from NE. When I was living in the Caribe I met a fair number of good sailors who live aboard say in Antigua and would welcome the "job".... and there are sailors who are competent who will do it for the experience... ie it's not their means living and would take a few hundred dollars a day I would guess. For example my friend JeffG who was in the Coasties, ran the Dering Harbor Yacht Club, was also Harbor Master in Greenport was free after the "season" and sailed with me as crew once or twice. Of course I paid him... and his air fare. If you are in a yacht club you might also find crew/captain who know how to sail but sail locally and would do the passage. This approach is not using a commercial delivery service... which I assume exist. I can't see the OAL cost of being more than 10K but that's a guess.

Also, I had planned to take the boat down but it was cancelled for a number of reasons.. but I had assembled good crew who only expected food and air fare... So if I can arrange people like them... and pay a captain it's gotta be doable. A crew of 4 is fine... 3 works fine too.

Then consider that if I don't go I can continue to work... So my clock is ticking as I bill hrly and I can earn and pay for the delivery as opposed to not work and lose the income.

I think the paid crew is economically possibly and sensible... and not as expensive as it may appear. But I haven't run and the numbers...

I am sure shipping is too expensive.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You can definitely put together a less expensive crew, if you know the right qualified people, they are working part time and less expensively. These systems can get very stressful, because their jobs, families, etc are more likely to get in the way than a crew that does this for a living. But it can work.

It's smart math to consider what you might earn, if you work instead of do the delivery. Not many folks will clear $5-$10k per week, after tax, to break even on the idea. However, defraying some of the expense may make sense. 

In the end, I don't think many boaters would apply the logic or we probably wouldn't own the boat at all. You either feel like going or you don't is the more likely filter.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> You can definitely put together a less expensive crew, if you know the right qualified people, they are working part time and less expensively. These systems can get very stressful, because their jobs, families, etc are more likely to get in the way than a crew that does this for a living. But it can work.
> 
> It's smart math to consider what you might earn, if you work instead of do the delivery. Not many folks will clear $5-$10k per week, after tax, to break even on the idea. However, defraying some of the expense may make sense.
> 
> In the end, I don't think many boaters would apply the logic or we probably wouldn't own the boat at all. You either feel like going or you don't is the more likely filter.


Minni, I have done this passage plenty of times. Do me it's not something I would look forward to as some... it's a chore. I prefer to cruise... No I do not expect a zero sum game by working... But if I work yes I can defray some of the expenses. The people who want to crew... may seek ocean experience or simply a free passage to the Caribe where they might want to work... or a vacation... or they have a seasonal job and have the time in the fall do make some money. It may not be easy to find crew and it will likely not be a person with a 9-5 and a family... but there are people who can and would do such a "job"/passage.

Having my boat safely moored or anchored in the Caribe as opposed to being winter stored is another cost issue. Winter storage is not hard to know... keeping the boat down in the Islands with someone watching when we are not there is another expense.

Many here would pay for a charter... so why would some offer to pay something to "sail" on Shiva. I am not trying to make this a business... but faced with the choice of a bare boat charter on a "blank" boat... vs sailing with a "friend" on Shiva down there... I think some would be willing to toss in something for "expenses" and so on.

This is also about SHARING an asset which I happen to own. Sharing essentially means not buying into the boat... but participating in defraying the costs of operating it and getting to and from the Caribe. I suppose this is also a sort of social experience... sailing with friends or even sailors down there who you or I sail with up here.

I am just rambling here but I think this sort of approach to what to do with the boat in the off season is worth considering.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> The other way to keep cost down is to pay professional crew to accompany the owner.


LOL
I used to charge a surcharge if the owner wanted to go on the delivery. Too often they wanted to turn it into a cruise, stopping here or there and taking a day or two to sight see, since they wouldn't be going that way again. I've had a few ask me to do something I felt wasn't the best choice, but wasn't serious enough to deny and put up with the resulting bad vibes. It has never been catastrophic, but normally it doesn't work out well for the boat or crew. 
During the ICW delivery season, we usually had deliveries scheduled with just a day or two in between, so we really couldn't afford to take longer than the allotted time. Of course, many of these were biannual deliveries on gold plated sportfishing boats, so breakdowns were rare. 5 days from Lauderdale to the NY area, a day to fly back and off again. What fun. A few of these cruised at 35 knots, but none cruised at less than 20. 
Delivering the retired bareboats from the VI to Lauderdale was a completely different kettle of fish. No owner *EVER* asked to accompany us on those trips, lol.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Capta...... I saw the surcharge for having the owner aboard coming!  probably justified, but it’s not really uncommon. However, owners are more likely to remain the skipper and pay for crew. 

SanderO..... I once made an arrangement with an old friend (he’s passed) that was a delivery skipper. He was going to get my boat to the Caribbean on his dime and back again. Whether he grabbed free rail meat or paid crew was up to him. But he did have plenty of friends that may have taken him up on the following. He would get to live aboard our boat in the Caribbean all winter. I would only pay for the slip. He had to vacate the boat for about three separate weeks, so I could use it. He loved the idea, but we never got around to doing it. Of course, I would never make this arrangement with someone I didn’t know well.


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## jeremiahbltz2 (Mar 30, 2017)

@capta, I don't want to get into this with you. I have been to places both far scammier and far more desperate than the windward isles. Our skipper was a repeat visitor. I mean, hell, I live in New York, I know a scam when I see one. What you describe are not scams, and we happily paid for all of them. (Okay, not having pennants on the moorings so that you pay someone to help is a little scammy, but not really.) For the kind of person who likes their all-inclusives and cruise ships and the like, there is a risk of getting hustled. I mean, no big deal, you're out $20 or whatever, but it bothers some people. Nobody on the boat minded and I'd be happy to go back, but it's a different sort of environment than many people are use to.


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## JoeDunn (Oct 27, 2017)

Its cold outside, I'm going to you tube to escape....perhaps I'll crank some Jimmy Buffet on the stereo...


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