# Doyle "StackPack", Quantum version or other?



## NautiJo (Jan 2, 2011)

I would like to get some feedback on who makes the best mainsail handling package. 
I have read negative comments on the Doyle system. I spoke to a fellow at Quantum that says their system is superior.
Anyone have any experience with either of these systems or another one that I may not be aware of?
Thank you in advance for your comment(s),
Nauti Jo


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I do not like stack packs in general. Just use stowable lazy jacks and a real sail cover.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

What kind of boat do you have and what kind of sailing do you do?

I don't have lazy jacks or a stack-pack type system on my boat and I single hand all the time with (mostly) no problems. I am contemplating getting lazy jacks, though. I had a friend that put a stack pack on her boat and it sdeemed to me it was more work than it was worth.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

I have a Doyle stackpack and it works absolutely great. May be different if you are crossing an ocean but for what I do (daysail, weekends) it is perfect. Rather than messing with a cover, I zip it open and am ready to go.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

jackdale said:


> I do not like stack packs in general. Just use stowable lazy jacks and a real sail cover.


I'm thinking of adding a stack pack - I currently do not have a lazy jack system.

What is it about stack packs that you don't like?


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

We have a stack pack type cover and love it. We had stowable lazy jacks and a regular cover but for short sails it was a hassle so we would leave it on and just roll out the headsail (I know, lazy, but that's reality). Now I use the main all the time because it's so easy. I also like the fact that when cruising for several weeks we cover the main every time we drop the hook instead of leaving the cover off because we'll be sailing again the next day. I can't recommend which brand to get, I see a lot of Doyles out there. I let a local canvas guy convince me he could build a good stack pack but it didn't turn out very well. It works OK but there's a lot wrong with it too. I wouldn't have one for ocean crossings (stowable lazy jacks are the way to go) but for anything else I think they're great.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

The boat I am using for instruction frequently has a Quantum stack pack.

It has two lines on each side to adjust once the sail is up: one line to adjust the forward part of the pack and another to ease the lazy jacks. So much for doing everything for the cockpit.

When reefing the stack pack prevents me from seeing if the luff tack line is at the gooseneck and whether or not the leech line is taut.

The lazyjacks lines make raising the sail a PITA as you have to monitor the battens so that they do not get caught.

The seams have ripped on the stack pack.

The zipper has broken.

The line that is used on the zipper has failed. 

The last 3 I attribute to UV damage which cannot be helped. 

It is incredibility inconvenient.

BTW - covering the sail when at anchor is not a good idea. If I want to use my sail, I want it now. In addition there is little UV damage at night.

I have also used Doyle stack packs - did not like them either.

Another BTW - when was the last time you had a salesman recommend another company's product. 

I like a balanced boat; the first sail to go up the main. It is also the last to come down. 

The sail cover comes off the dock and goes back on at the dock. The main halyard goes on at the dock and comes off when back at the dock. That is prudent seamanship.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

I have a Dutchman system with a standard sail cover and love it for me. However. the Doyle system works and is definetely the easiest out there. That or variations of what they started. If you are a day sailor that does some short trips it is a great system that saves time at the beginning and end of the day. If you are a racer you don't want lazy jacks, Dutchman, or Doyle, you want to take those expensive sails off and care for them.


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## tweitz (Apr 5, 2007)

*Doyle "StackPack", Quantum version or other?*

I have a stack pack now, had a Dutchman on my prior boat. Neither is perfect or effortless, but both are pretty convenient. I much prefer a system of that kind that I can easily singlehanded than trying to deal with a sail falling all over the cockpit. I usually do need to go to the mast to get the main down all the way, but it is pretty helpful.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We havea Quantum full batten main, Strong Track system by Tides and EZjacks( not Lazy Jacks). No modifying cover, no extra holes in the sail . EZJacks are unde and pulled back t he mast when you raise the sail and can be deployed in less than 1 minute FROM the COCKPIt before dropping the sail. I o a fir amount of singlehanding on our C&C 35MKIII and its an easy and Safe way to owner the main.

Dave


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

flyingwelshman said:


> I'm thinking of adding a stack pack - I currently do not have a lazy jack system.
> 
> What is it about stack packs that you don't like?


I can't speak for JackDale, but I agree with him about the stack packs in general. I've been crew on three offshore deliveries and a few other shorter hops on boats that had them and I'm not a fan.

It seemed like every single time we had to reef or strike the main, dealing with the stack pack was a pain. To get the sail settled into the pack, one had to stand on mast steps or winches so you could get high enough above the top of the stack pack to stuff the sail in. Not fun in any sort of conditions where you might actually have to shorten or strike your main. Similar problem in working the zipper across the top of the pack.

I just don't see the great advantage with these. Maybe for a small daysailor in protected water, but for any larger cruising boat, I think they create more problems than they solve.

What I use is a design for retractable lazy jacks that I found online several years ago, before I even had Argyle. Basically it's a simple system of lines, that are sized and connected such that it acts as a lazy jack system when deployed, but when retracted the lines all go taught against the boom and mast. There is a cheek-block up high and a pair of cam cleats near the goosneck on each side of the mast. The different sections of line are interconnected with rings and attached to the boom with eye-straps.

To set my main I take the sail cover off, raise the lazy jacks and then take all of the sail ties off the main. If I can't raise the main directly up wind for some reason, I can always lower the lazy jacks, let the sail spill on to the deck and raise it normally. Another advantage to a retractable system is that you don't need to put holes and extra zippers in your sail cover.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks Argyle & Jack. Guess I got some ponderin' to do....


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I think it comes down to what type of sailing you do. If you primarily do multi-day offshore sailing I wouldn't recommend a stack pack. If you daysail, or cruise and anchor most nights I think they're perfect. All the regular main covers I've had were a pain to deal with in one way or another and having lazy jacks make them even more of a pain. Unlike Jack and Argyle I have encountered no problems with raising, lowering or reefing the main with the stack pack. We have three reefs and full battens in our main and it's no more difficult to raise than with lazy jacks, you get used to it. If I need to drop the main in a hurry I just drop it into the bag and tidy up later, nothing could be easier. I leave the halyard attached when anchoring and I know I can have the main up faster with just having to unzip the zipper than if I had 4-5 sail ties to undo. Maybe my experience has been different but I can't find anything negative to say about them for the type of sailing we do.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I have a Doyle StackPak and have not experienced the problems other's seem to have. I also have the Strong Track. When dropping the Main it goes all the way down until there isn't enough weight on the halyard to pull it down any further (maybe a foot). After lowering, I make my way forward, pulling back on the flakes as I go and pulling up the zipper until I reach the mast and pull down the last little bit of sail and pull the zipper closed. Reefing is easy as well.

The only time I have a problem is if it's quite windy and I don't bother to adjust the lazy jack lines before heading out. Usually I don't bother with them, but if properly installed, it's not that hard to.

I have to admit that I was quite fortunate in having a Doyle loft in the area who did the complete installation of the sail, strong track and lazy jacks as part of the deal. Only thing I'd take over it would be In-Boom furling.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

PBzeer said:


> Only thing I'd take over it would be In-Boom furling.


Been there, done that, didn't like it.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

jackdale said:


> I like a balanced boat; the first sail to go up the main. It is also the last to come down.


So does a sail cover/stack pack change this? And how is a boat balanced with just a main up? Also there are far more compelling reasons for pulling the main down first and leaving a headsail up to last. If they are not known, I can help you.



jackdale said:


> The sail cover comes off the dock and goes back on at the dock. The main halyard goes on at the dock and comes off when back at the dock. That is prudent seamanship.


This is of course OK when you're headed for the dock each day but when you're out cruising, the sail will often be covered for extended periods while you're at anchor. With a stack pack the halyard can stay on and opening the zipper to hoist the main takes moments - the sail goes up in less than minute. If a sailor waits until that is too short a time then he is plain and simple not paying attention.

FWIW I have Doyle Stakpac with Harken batcars and I wouldn't change it for any other system. Just my personal experience.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> I think it comes down to what type of sailing you do. If you primarily do multi-day offshore sailing I wouldn't recommend a stack pack. If you daysail, or cruise and anchor most nights I think they're perfect. All the regular main covers I've had were a pain to deal with in one way or another and having lazy jacks make them even more of a pain-jrd222


Thats why we use the EZ Jack. no modifications needed to the sail cover at all. Only deployed when you are lowering the sail otherwise its along the lower boom and mast. They can also be deployed for the cockpit so no need to go on dck.

Some of my friends with the Stack Packs have noted the following problems.

Increased sailing around at anchor due to the extra height of the material when the sail is
down and covered
Some of their booms are high so it has been difficult for them to reach the zipper to close
the pack
Some of them report that they have long booms extending over their dodger and bimini 
and have a hard time reachimng the zipper to close them
Extra fabric at the foot of the sail flapping around
Chafe from the stack packs lazy jacks runbbing the sail as they are always deployed like
regular lazy jacks vs EZ Jacks.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

chef2sail said:


> Some of their booms are high so it has been difficult for them to reach the zipper to close the pack
> 
> Some of them report that they have long booms extending over their dodger and bimini and have a hard time reaching the zipper to close them


Both these zipper problems are easy solved by a small turn block at the mast and another at the end of the boom with a continuous line connected to the zipper pull tab. That way the zipper can be opened or closed effortlessly from either end.



chef2sail said:


> Extra fabric at the foot of the sail flapping around


Not sure I understand this - if the cords supporting the stack pack are correctly tensioned there is no flapping canvas - at least not on mine. The stack pack has two solid fibre rods along the top edges to keep the bag "stiff"



chef2sail said:


> Chafe from the stack packs lazy jacks rubbing the sail as they are always deployed like regular lazy jacks vs EZ Jacks.


As above. The cords don't really move at all relative to the sail once everything is set up and if the leeward cords are slightly loose they don't chafe the sail. They need in any case to be freed up slightly to prevent poor sail shape.

The one thing that I won't deny is that the bag being continually up does effect the set of (and air flow over) the main ever so slightly and if I were racing I may have a different opinion. The disadvantage I suffer from loss of boat speed while "cruising" is really insignificant.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, just saying.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Just reporting what friends with the stack packs have mentioned as their problems.

I have seen them sail around in the anchorage a little more than most of the other boats myself.'

That being said they are easier to pack your sail up for the day.

Dave


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Just reporting what friends with the stack packs have mentioned as their problems.
> 
> I have seen them sail around in the anchorage a little more than most of the other boats myself.'
> 
> Dave


I haven't noticed that with my stackpack.

And it makes no sense to me. Since the center of effort of the additional surface is behind the mast, it should _decrease_ the tendency to sail at anchor, not increase it.

There is a reason you rig the anchor riding sail as far aft as possible...


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

My current boat came with a Dutchman system and I have become a fan. Basically its as if it wasn't there when raising and lowering the sail other than the main is guided right onto the boom when lowering. And in three years of use, I've had no issues with the system. Yes its more expensive than lazy jacks, but its worth it in my opinion.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

My StackPak (Doyle) has a membrane that runs the length of the foot that pulls the bag tight against the sail when it is raised. Not optimal for racing, but fine for cruising.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Omatako said:


> So does a sail cover/stack pack change this? And how is a boat balanced with just a main up? Also there are far more compelling reasons for pulling the main down first and leaving a headsail up to last. If they are not known, I can help you.


That was in response to post that that indicated that they sail with the foresail only.



> This is of course OK when you're headed for the dock each day but when you're out cruising, the sail will often be covered for extended periods while you're at anchor. With a stack pack the halyard can stay on and opening the zipper to hoist the main takes moments - the sail goes up in less than minute. If a sailor waits until that is too short a time then he is plain and simple not paying attention.


If you read my post about the issues I have had with various stack packs you would be aware of my concerns.

I do not use a sail cover at anchor. I like to tie the halyard off with the foremost sail tie.



> FWIW I have Doyle Stakpac with Harken batcars and I wouldn't change it for any other system. Just my personal experience.


And experience is what most of us use to form our opinions.


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## GufShoz (Dec 5, 2001)

As an older sailor, I had difficulty lowering and bagging the main on my Hunter 29.5; especially, if there was any wind. And since I didn't take the boat out very often when there wasn't any wind...well, you get it. Anyway, a few years ago we did a BVI charter and the boat had a stack pack. So did most of the other charter boats. I decided adding one to my own boat would improve the language I used when handling my main. After some internet research, I chose the Mack Pack from Mack Sails. My son and I did the installation according to the DVD instructions. About a two hour job, and my life is so much simpler. I love it. I haven't noticed any adverse effects from the size of the pack. It's almost twice as tall as a furled, bagged sail. As to not bagging a sail while at anchor, unzipping the pack takes much less time than removing sail-ties.


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## Jetrunek (Aug 13, 2021)

jrd22 said:


> We have a stack pack type cover and love it. We had stowable lazy jacks and a regular cover but for short sails it was a hassle so we would leave it on and just roll out the headsail (I know, lazy, but that's reality). Now I use the main all the time because it's so easy. I also like the fact that when cruising for several weeks we cover the main every time we drop the hook instead of leaving the cover off because we'll be sailing again the next day. I can't recommend which brand to get, I see a lot of Doyles out there. I let a local canvas guy convince me he could build a good stack pack but it didn't turn out very well. It works OK but there's a lot wrong with it too. I wouldn't have one for ocean crossings (stowable lazy jacks are the way to go) but for anything else I think they're great.


We just installed a new Doyle Stackpack (our boat's moored in Salem, MA Harbor). When hoisting main first time, sail battens snagged on lazy jacks at each intersection. (It dropped nicely into cover at end. What to do to avoid snagging sail battens on hoist?


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Jetrunek said:


> We just installed a new Doyle Stackpack (our boat's moored in Salem, MA Harbor). When hoisting main first time, sail battens snagged on lazy jacks at each intersection. (It dropped nicely into cover at end. What to do to avoid snagging sail battens on hoist?


Hoisting a main with lazy jacks, you need to see that the first two battens don't hang up under the lazy jacks, once those two are clear of the lazy jacks, you can hoist away as usual. See about 3:00 in


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Jetrunek said:


> We just installed a new Doyle Stackpack (our boat's moored in Salem, MA Harbor). When hoisting main first time, sail battens snagged on lazy jacks at each intersection. (It dropped nicely into cover at end. What to do to avoid snagging sail battens on hoist?


The key is to turn the boat head to wind before hoisting. On our boat the top 2 battens can potentially hang up on the lazy jacks, but it is easy to avoid with a little care.

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## Jetrunek (Aug 13, 2021)

sailingfool said:


> Hoisting a main with lazy jacks, you need to see that the first two battens don't hang up under the lazy jacks, once those two are clear of the lazy jacks, you can hoist away as usual. See about 3:00 in


Thank you. We're just learning to deal with lazy jacks and Stackpack cover when hoisting sail.


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## Jetrunek (Aug 13, 2021)

We would benefit from guidelines for tuning lazy jacks on a Doyle Stackpack cover. Our lazy jacks seem to be taking strain of supporting boom. Installation instructions say topping lift should carry the boom load.


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## DanM1 (Oct 4, 2017)

I had a Doyle "cradle cover" installed last year. Installed by Doyle. They set the Jack length and I never touch them. Works great. Just have to head into wind, release main sheet, and haul relatively slowly (not super slow) watching the first couple of battens. Not hard or complicated.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Jetrunek said:


> We would benefit from guidelines for tuning lazy jacks on a Doyle Stackpack cover. Our lazy jacks seem to be taking strain of supporting boom. Installation instructions say topping lift should carry the boom load.


As yuou want the34 topping lift to carry the boom when the sail is lowered, you should set the lazy jacks so, when the main is lowered, the lazy jacks are just not quite tight...


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

jrd22 said:


> I think it comes down to what type of sailing you do. If you primarily do multi-day offshore sailing I wouldn't recommend a stack pack. If you daysail, or cruise and anchor most nights I think they're perfect. All the regular main covers I've had were a pain to deal with in one way or another and having lazy jacks make them even more of a pain.


Since the primary purpose of any sail cover is to protect your sail from UV damage, there's nothing to be gained by covering your sail for the night when coastal cruising if you plan to leave the next day. If you primarily sail for long periods in a row (rare) then there's no advantage to a stack pack and it can make reefing more troublesome. So I guess that leaves occasional day sailing when they're very handy.
I've always liked retractable lazy jacks and a very simple sail cover that's easy to put on and take off. Other than esthetics no need to have zippers or wrap around the mast. Just a lanyard around the mast to keep it from sliding aft is all that's needed. Then another lanyard to fasten to the aft end of the boom so the center of the cover is pulled taut, with ties about every 2' along the bottom. Quick and easy on/off, the sail is UV protected, and since the front is open, air can flow through so it doesn't stay wet long after a rain.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

A standard removable sail cover makes the most sense. If you need to "control your sail" a Dutchman works well... but it does require sail modification,


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

jtsailjt said:


> Since the primary purpose of any sail cover is to protect your sail from UV damage, there's nothing to be gained by covering your sail for the night when coastal cruising if you plan to leave the next day. If you primarily sail for long periods in a row (rare) then there's no advantage to a stack pack and it can make reefing more troublesome. So I guess that leaves occasional day sailing when they're very handy.
> I've always liked retractable lazy jacks and a very simple sail cover that's easy to put on and take off. Other than esthetics no need to have zippers or wrap around the mast. Just a lanyard around the mast to keep it from sliding aft is all that's needed. Then another lanyard to fasten to the aft end of the boom so the center of the cover is pulled taut, with ties about every 2' along the bottom. Quick and easy on/off, the sail is UV protected, and since the front is open, air can flow through so it doesn't stay wet long after a rain.


When we are cruising our sail is covered whenever we are at anchor. We are often in an anchorage for multiple days, but even if we were leaving the next day, we still tidy up after the day of sailing. Anything else just looks sloppy. It is rare to see a boat in the anchorage that doesn't have their boat properly "squared away" in anchorages.

A Stack pack makes dropping and covering the sail easy. Drop the sail, straighten it out a bit, and zip it up. Done. It makes reefing even easier because it catches and contains the excess sail so there is no need to Lash it down.

We love our stack pack!

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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

I guess it’s a question of aesthetic taste because I don’t think a lowered mainsail looks sloppy or not squared away. To me it looks like someone is aboard and plans to go sailing tomorrow and if neatly flaked it really looks good. But I do think that all the various versions of the stack packs look sort of sloppy underway. Instead of a crisp outline of the sail shape all along the boom there’s sort of a floppy, uneven, canvas border. I do think they look fine with the sail lowered and the top zipped up, but underway, it’s just something extra flopping around up there and it can’t be doing anything good for the flow of air around the bottom few feet of sail.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Aesthetics are somewhat personal... despite the fact that most can agree on when something is beautiful.
I find things like (most) biminis unattractive and do not improve the aesthetics of a yacht. Same with stack pack.. it only detracts from the lines of a boat.

And of course the aesthetics of sail boats have evolved over the years. We train our eyes to accept and then embrace the new.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

jtsailjt said:


> I guess it's a question of aesthetic taste ..But I do think that all the various versions of the stack packs look sort of sloppy underway. Instead of a crisp outline of the sail shape all along the boom there's sort of a floppy, uneven, canvas border...


I'm a big fan of a stackpack on a cruising sailboat as they have convenience benefits similar to those of a furling jib. I do agree to the cosmetic disconnect when the main is up, should I have the opportunity to buy a stackpack system I think I would go with one of the white or off- white Sunbrella fabrics for that reason.

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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this long thread is the height of the boom and the difficulty of putting on a traditional main cover if it's high. My boom is easy to get to and I don't view putting on the cover as a big chore. I have been on boats that was not true. On boats like that, solutions like a furling main or a Stackpack start to look better.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

jtsailjt said:


> I guess it's a question of aesthetic taste because I don't think a lowered mainsail looks sloppy or not squared away. To me it looks like someone is aboard and plans to go sailing tomorrow and if neatly flaked it really looks good. But I do think that all the various versions of the stack packs look sort of sloppy underway. Instead of a crisp outline of the sail shape all along the boom there's sort of a floppy, uneven, canvas border. I do think they look fine with the sail lowered and the top zipped up, but underway, it's just something extra flopping around up there and it can't be doing anything good for the flow of air around the bottom few feet of sail.


Yes that is the downside of stackpacks for sure. I thought that aspect was really going to bother me, but I have gotten used to it. Having said that, it is fairly easy to make a stackpack and lazyjacks retractable. The canvas can be rolled up and strapped to the boom and the lazy jacks stowed against the mast. Of course that adds an extra couple of steps when it is time to drop the sail or reef, but it does mitigate the aesthetic and airflow concerns. My lazy jacks are becoming a bit weathered, and when I replace them I will likely make that conversion.

Certainly biminis and dodgers disrupt the lines of a boat, but sometimes that is a tradeoff worth making. My boat has very sleek lines without all the canvas, but the canvas makes the boat so much more comfortable that it is worth the trade off. We have spent long days sailing in the blazing sun, yet we arrive at the anchorage feeling cool and comfortable. Other boats in the anchorage arrive and then have to set up whatever boom tent arrangement they have devised in order to give themselves the much needed shade at anchor. Those boom tents and tarps aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing!

It is easier to be an aesthetic "purist" when you are just daysailing, but when you are spending days or weeks on the boat you start to appreciate the things that make it simpler and more comfortable, regardless of aesthetics.

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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

After seven years with no lazy jacks and a traditional mainsail cover I upgraded to a stack pack system with strong track and lazy jacks (made by Chesapeake Sailmakers) this season and so far I love it. Since a lot of our sailing is day sails on the bay, it's a wonderful convenience. With a partially battened sail we take some care getting the first third of the sail up, but no issues. And getting the main down is just a breeze, no clinging to the cabin top and boom to flake the main and tie it up.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I must have an untrained eye..... To me most boats that I like look _better_ with a dodger and bimini especially when they have a connector between the two. 70 summers in Florida may have something to do with that though.👿👿👿👿👿👿👿


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

contrarian said:


> I must have an untrained eye..... To me most boats that I like look _better_ with a dodger and bimini especially when they have a connector between the two. 70 summers in Florida may have something to do with that though.👿👿👿👿👿👿👿


post a pic of a great looking sailboat please


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

Great looking sailboat......... to me.
Keep in mind that I believe that aesthetics is simply a construct of perception.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm with contrarian on this: shade is beautiful, and the longer I own a boat in a southern climate the more I long for one of those bimini-dodger-connection setups. Instead, I have bimini and some carefully arranged beach towels at anchor


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

contrarian said:


> Great looking sailboat......... to me.
> Keep in mind that I believe that aesthetics is simply a construct of perception.


I like shade too and I've certainly seen worse looking dodger/bimini's but it doesn't look like you can check the trim of either sail from either helm position. So how do you sail it?


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

contrarian said:


> I must have an untrained eye..... To me most boats that I like look _better_ with a dodger and bimini especially when they have a connector between the two. 70 summers in Florida may have something to do with that though.???????


I've come around to that way of thinking too after numerous visits to various dermatologists over the years. But I hate not being able to see the sails from the helm so they've got to have a window in the bimini so I can see. I just went so far as to have a hard top made to replace my bimini and besides wanting to climb up on it to reach my boom, a primary reason for getting was so I could have a hatch I can actually see through or open on hot days.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

jtsailjt said:


> but it doesn't look like you can check the trim of either sail from either helm position. So how do you sail it?


You rely on your other senses other than sight. You learn to feel the wind and let the boats feel tell you what she needs.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

jtsailjt said:


> I like shade too and I've certainly seen worse looking dodger/bimini's but it doesn't look like you can check the trim of either sail from either helm position. So how do you sail it?


On my bimini there are windows above the helm positions so you can see mainsail trim, and the upper luff of the spinnaker. Our connector between the bimini and the dodger is clear so you can see through it. Both the bimini windows and the connector have sunbrella covers to protect them from uv and provide more shade. We prefer to sail without the connector piece but if it is raining it is nice to have as the cockpit stays fairly dry.

Visibility isn't perfect, but everything has trade offs.

The the stack pack is not all that intrusive. I don't really even notice it anymore...maybe because the bimini blocks my view of it!
















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