# Catalina 22 good starter or waste of money



## LakeMi (Aug 29, 2013)

Ok so after reading what everyone has said to me I am thinking about going smaller for a few years. I do really want a bigger boat but I'm not sure about myself and My sailing abilities. I looked at a few cat 22 on line and they look like they could do what I want. Something to day sail and stay on for a few weekend and maybe a week long trip in the summer. I looked into how much they weigh and I think the van can pull it. I also looked into dry storage at a marina and leave the mast up and only use the van to launch it. That way I can go by myself to.  But my big worry is that I won't have enough nice weather on Lake Michigan to use it. Not sure how it would do in 2-4' waves that are out the more times then not.

I guess if someone can tell me how it handles waves and if 2-5 people 3 of them being kids could fit on a cat 22?

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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Pick a good weather window and it will be fine. You will not want to spend time in Lake Michigan 4 footers, they are just to short cycle for comfort in most mid size boats.

I have friends that have a C22 on the Wi coast. They love the boat, and mostly day sail. When they take a trip they do a night on the boat and then a night in a hotel/motel. Better balance for both of them. They take one to two of their grand kids with them, but it is definetely camping out and day sailing to their slip only. Entertaining the kids in very little space is tough.

You have gone from a C25 to a C27 and now back to a C22 in the matter of a few days. I think that you need to go look at some boats that are not pictures on the internet, and then maybe make a decision.You seem to be running in circles from powerboat, to mooring/slip, from C25 to C27 etc..You are doing a lot of work and dreaming with little or no reality as yet. Go get the reality......it is YOURS, not ours, that matters.

Go the www.bbyc.com and charter the C25 they have in their fleet. A couple of days on it with your wife and kids will probably answer some questions for all of you.


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## LakeMi (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks I had not found that one yet.

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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I share the concern about your lack of direction in your boat search. You need to go look at as many boats as you can.

I would never do an overnight on a Catalina 22, especially with 3 kids. A whole week is impossible to imagine. Way too tight. A C25 would be tight also, but might work for a night or two.

You don't need to have one boat to do it all. You could buy a small boat for daysailing, and for the one week a year you want to cruise, charter a larger boat and do it in comfort. (That's what I decided to do.) If you do the math, you'll probably find that the money you save by buying a smaller boat (purchase price, storage, maintenance) can pay for the charter. Owning a boat still costs money, but a smaller boat is significantly less. Cost goes up exponentially with size - not just purchase price, but storage and maintenance.

You seem to want to have a trailerable boat, and you have limited towing capacity. I don't know what your budget is, but one boat you have not mentioned is the Catalina 250 water ballast. There are many here who will stick their noses up at a water ballast, and they do have some maintenance and performance issues, but it would maximize your boat size in a package that is a little easier to tow. The C250WB does have significantly less headroom than the wing keel version, though, so you need to get in one and see if you feel claustrophobic.

But the key thing is to go look at boats now. The idea to try day rentals would be an excellent way to get really familiar with a few of them.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I think a lot of people start out with "plans" to sail the high seas, and underestimate the power of a good day sail. I've noted that many people buy these truly beautiful cruisers, but then don't get the time for the "big sail," and due to the size of the boat and lack of crew, don't get out as much as they otherwise would in a small boat.

I appreciate the want to get the kids involved (or the spouse), but sailing sadly isn't always enjoyed by all. I'd say start small, with plans to day sail. Set yourself up so that sailing it isn't 2 hours of work on each end (trailer sailing can be like that), try a slipped boat, so that you can hop on and get sailing in a few minutes. Do this as close to home as you can.. so you can get more tiller time... After a season or two, you can decide if everyone likes it, and what size boat you REALLY need... A Catalina 22 is an awesome starter (as is the Cat 25 honestly), these are good reliable choices that'll hold their value decently so if you decide on a smaller or bigger boat later, unloading it should be easy... slip it, and get out there, and get that tiller time.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm kind of wondering the same thing. In a few years I'd like to get a 30+ foot boat but my wife says a new basement and a new garage have to come before a boat, and she's right. There are a lot of Catalina 22 for sale, it seems like that might be a good way to get a feel for maintenance and get lots of sails in, and for big boat experience I could charter a couple times a year. Does that make sense?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SHNOOL said:


> I think a lot of people start out with "plans" to sail the high seas, and underestimate the power of a good day sail. I've noted that many people buy these truly beautiful cruisers, but then don't get the time for the "big sail," and due to the size of the boat and lack of crew, don't get out as much as they otherwise would in a small boat.
> 
> I appreciate the want to get the kids involved (or the spouse), but sailing sadly isn't always enjoyed by all. I'd say start small, with plans to day sail. Set yourself up so that sailing it isn't 2 hours of work on each end (trailer sailing can be like that), try a slipped boat, so that you can hop on and get sailing in a few minutes. Do this as close to home as you can.. so you can get more tiller time... After a season or two, you can decide if everyone likes it, and what size boat you REALLY need... A Catalina 22 is an awesome starter (as is the Cat 25 honestly), these are good reliable choices that'll hold their value decently so if you decide on a smaller or bigger boat later, unloading it should be easy... slip it, and get out there, and get that tiller time.


I agree fully. We looked for 6 months at boats up to 36', thinking we needed one boat "to do it all." In the end, we realized that we mainly wanted to daysail, and a large boat would be much more work to maintain and a pain to take out for a couple hours. We also decided we'd sail more with the boat 12 minutes away, and a smaller, nimbler boat would tack more easily in the river. We've chartered larger boats for a couple weeks, but our own boat is also large enough for two of us to spend several days, so we've done that too.

I also agree 100% with finding a slip or mooring for the boat. You will not sail if you need to launch and haul out every time - especially with impatient kids waiting. But a trailerable boat would allow for offseason storage in your yard, if you prefer. But first look into boatyard storage options. I found a place that stores my boat in the offseason for $300 (plus $150 club dues) - and that includes haulout and launch. Rather than buy a trailer, I bought 5 boat stands for $120 each. The stands are much easier to store (they nest and fit in my shed), but every bit as effective for storing the boat in the winter as a trailer - as long as you can find an inexpensive yard (hint: join a boat club).


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnesail said:


> I'm kind of wondering the same thing. In a few years I'd like to get a 30+ foot boat but my wife says a new basement and a new garage have to come before a boat, and she's right. There are a lot of Catalina 22 for sale, it seems like that might be a good way to get a feel for maintenance and get lots of sails in, and for big boat experience I could charter a couple times a year. Does that make sense?


A LOT of sense. The C22 has a very long, roomy cockpit for daysails. [EDIT: Please verify this yourself. I might be thinking of the Capri 22, which has a really long cockpit, and might be more suitable for seating 5.] One other consideration, though, is that if you truly want to go out for a whole day, an enclosed head may be nice. My wife's insistence on that, and my general desire to have a roomy cabin to escape the sun and/or do occasional overnights, made the 25 footer the smallest we could go.

But the 22-25 foot sloop does get you the general feel of a true keelboat. You'll gain enough experience that chartering in the 30-40 foot range is an easy adjustment.


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## chip (Oct 23, 2008)

I love my Catalina 22. It's a surprisingly tough little boat, although I think 4' waves would get old real quick and I wouldn't personally try sleeping 5 on mine (unless you're all under 3' tall). I do think it's a great way to get out there, do some daysails on calmer days, maybe take a skeleton crew out for a weekend, and get better at sailing.

I keep mine at a marina on a trailer with the rig up, which is cheaper than a slip, kinder to the keel lifting hardware than a slip or mooring (particularly in salt water), and makes it so that I don't need to step and unstep the mast each time we sail. There are people out there who put their masts up and down all the time and have systems worked out to make it less annoying, but it was never something I wanted to get particularly good at. I don't know if that's an option in your area, but it's worked great for us.

I've never weighed my boat, but I imagine that the boat plus trailer plus junk is probably conservatively around 4000-4500 lbs. My truck is rated for 5000 and pulls it fine, although the vast majority of our towing takes place in the 30' between the ramp and our parking spot.

We've been out in some nasty stuff, and we weekend whenever we can, although it's just the two of us and even that's somewhat cozy. We're thinking of upgrading to extend our range, but we've gotten more than 4 great years out of ours and don't regret any of it.

I haven't been following your whole story, so I'm not making a recommendation one way or the other, but that's my deal with the 22. I have all of my boating activities since day 1 cataloged in my boat log if you want specifics:

Welcome | Sailing Fortuitous


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I think the 25 is a good compromise and a fun boat to sail. The pop top version will give you a bit more headroom if you get stuck down below in the rain for an afternoon.

YMMV


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

I just sold my C22 and miss it a lot. It is a fantastic first boat and I also had it on Lake MI. The boat is perfect for day sailing but spending a night would be cramped for any more than 2 people. It is a tough little boat and will handle more than you are willing go through. I had it out in 25 knot winds with a reefed main only and it just ate it up. Exciting but exhausting. It really does well in 8-15 knot winds. Also, on the weight. It comes in at 2,800 lbs for an empty boat and my trailer weighed about 400 lbs. Trailered like a dream.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

We have a Cat 22. Came from power boats to some small dingys then a partnership on a H31, and then the Cat.

I don't know about Lake Michigan, but the Cat 22 is sort of the "do it all" light trainer sailboat. If you want to tow it with a mini van , take 5 people day sailing, sleep on it once or twice and learn something about sailing, its just about the only boat for you. We love ours and we do all of the above.Its a pain to rig but not as bad as a bigger boat. So we keep ours in a slip. Again, it fits a certain compromise. YMMV. But a waster of money? No sir.

The main problem in rough water is just trying to keep the little propeller on our egg beater in the water. Sleeping on it? Certainly possible, there is room but its nothing you would want to cruise on. Think throwing yourself down on the bunk and sleeping at a dock.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

It's a much more involved process to day sail a Catalina 25... than a Catalina 22... 

The Catalina 25 will weather those 4 foot waves better, but it'll still be a pounding (for the crew/skipper, either boat would be fine).

Another person put up about "dry storage." Yep if you can store MAST up that's quicker too, than rigging each time. I don't think i'd want to do that with the Catalina 25, but the 22, definitely!

My last suggestion to you, is to go look at these boats, and take the fam with you, see what they think!


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

The first sailboat we got was a Cal 20. Very nice boat to daysail and seaworthy too. At least one has sailed transatlantic!
We did an overnight cruise on that boat with 4 of us and she was sold soon after. NFW is a boat that size going to be much good for cruising. I would strongly suggest the OP take enough sailing classes to be able to charter a 30+ foot boat and daysail the hell out of the Cat 22 for now. He will soon know what he wants to do after that.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I went through a very similar process. I started off looking for a 12-15' boat. Then my wife said we should get something with a cabin so our kids could hide from the sun/rain. They don't make a lot of boats that size with cabins. So then I moved up to a 20-22', because anything bigger just seemed too big. I scoured Craigslist ads for almost 2 months trying to find something in my price range. I finally found a guy with a Rhodes 22 who was willing to let it go for what I was able to pay. We got aboard, and I had a heck of a time figuring out how 4 of us were going to fit aboard it given my kids age and temperment at the time (they were 5 and 3). Until I got aboard that Rhodes, I had no idea a 22 was actually as small as it was. I went to look at a Venture 21 and a Catalina 22, and was left with the same impression. To me, the cockpit would be tight for us all, and there was no way the 4 of us were going to fit in any of those boats comfortably for any length of time. We were ONLY going to be daysailing, and we would never overnight. As a practical matter, with my kids, I knew they would want to overnight even if my wife decided not to come along. So, I started expanding my search to include 25's. I got aboard the Catalina 25 and was amazed at the difference 3 feet made to the way the boat felt. The cockpit felt bigger (not a HUGE amount, but bigger), and the cabin - wow. We'd still be "camping" while aboard, but it certainly was do-able. We had the traditional layout (not the dinette), and I could easily see converting the settee into a queen-size bed for my wife and me. Then our boys could sleep in the vee berth, and we could use the quarterberth for storage. We lost the boat before that could actually become a reality, but as a practical matter, with some careful stowage, it could have been done. I even think that you could squeeze a kid into the quarterberth just fine, so all 5 of you could fit without being on top of each other.

In the end, the choice is yours (obviously). If you go too small, though, you may never get comfortable enough to begin to enjoy the boat (you'll all be on top of each other), and you may get scared off from boating. You can pick up a decent 22 or 25 for $1,000-$4,000 (the 22 with a trailer, the 25 without in this price range), and should be able to sell it in a year for about what you paid for it. If you can rent a 22 or 25, that's a good way to get your feet wet and to try out a boat of a particular size, but the only REAL way to know how you'll use the boat, and how much you'll use it, is to dive in.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

I went down this road myself. I can only share my own experiences.

I began sailing Capri 16.5s (club boats) and had an absolute blast. When it came time to buy a boat I was torn exactly as you are. I looked at nothing but 25s but found a Morgan 22 that was just too good to pass up. It was the right boat for me. As time went on it was still the right boat 95% of the time.

My usual outing was a daysail with two adults and two kids. In the heat of summer the cabin is ridiculously hot, so don't plan on anyone hanging out down below. 

95% of the time we spent sailing it was on daysails and evening sunset sails. On a 22 you aren't going anywhere fast so daysailing (less than 5 hours) is bay sailing for me. A 22 is a dream to learn singlehanding on. I singlehanded mine offshore even in rough seas and moderately bad weather. Sure, you have to be a glutton for punishment but the boat can handle anything you can. That little Morgan was built like a tank and seas of 5-7ft were not a problem if the period wasn't too short.

So, when was the 22 footer not a great choice? Long sails. The seats in the cockpit are small and they are low. It was very hard to get comfortable with nothing to rest my back against. Since the seats were so low I'd be sitting on a throw cushion or two, which made the seat nearly the height of the combing. Seat height is no issue at all when you are scooting around in the bay and tacking a lot. On long trips (overnighters) it becomes a source of serious discomfort.

Working on the boat is tough in a small cabin. People talk about headroom, and that is a real concern. You will find, however, that most 25s aren't a huge step up in cabin room and you still can't stand up. Every boat look palacial online. When you go see the boat in person, the cabin of a 25' gets put into perspective. A 25' is a van. A 22' foot boat is a station wagon.

So, where do you draw the line?

A boat enters true "comfort dimensions" around 30ft in my experience. That is not even a legitimate comparison to a 22 footer. It's like deciding you need more headroom in your Nissan so you go out and buy a Kenworth tractor trailor. Two entirely different vehicles designed for two entirely different things, at entirely different purchase and maintenance price points.

So, for me, the 30 footer would have been the cat's meow on overnight trips and long sails- the difference between a road trip in a Smart Car vs. a Cadillac El Dorado. 

The reality is those overnighters happened about every three months or so. With the little 22 I could go sailing in the next hour because I wanted to. Maintenance was as basic as basic gets, both in cost and in scale and because there just isn't that much boat to maintain.

The amount of use I got from my 22' for the paltry amount of money I spent made it a total no-brainer. *and it still seemed like all I did was spend money* Multiply that feeling by thousands of dollars and that's how big-boat maintenance would feel. Being able to single hand the boat, even manhandle it (which will never happen on a larger boat) was a tremendous positive. 

But don't kid yourself. Small is small, regardless of the other positives which come with a small boat.

Only you can weigh the value (and price) of comfort over the benefits of a smaller, simpler, and easier to sail boat.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

Throwing my hat in here, smaller equals simpler, simpler equals more sailing time. 

I've been all over the board on boats, owning boats from 16 feet to 35 ft. As much as I loved my 35 foot boat, I sailed my 16 and 22 foot boats a lot more. What it comes down to is how the boat is going to be used. This point has been well made in this thread. So, some serious reality versus the dream thinking time is in order. 

As for the Catalina 22, I've never owned one, but the loyalty of it's owners speaks volumes for the boat. There is good reason this boat has been in production for so long. This thread tells you why.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I started with a Catalina 22, called a Jaguar 22 in the UK. Sailed mine all over the west coast of Scotland and the Adriatic as far as Albania. Towed it with a Citroen CX 2 litre.

Handled wind and waves just fine. Reef early! Big cockpit. OK for one person to cruise on in minimalist style. OK for two for a weekend. 

I had a lot of good times with mine and it taught me a lot.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

TQA, you were supposed to say that you still have the 22 tucked inside your 44 as your dinghy.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

jimgo said:


> TQA, you were supposed to say that you still have the 22 tucked inside your 44 as your dinghy.


No she had to go to help fund the purchase of my first serious cruising boat.

I wonder if Lucy Lockett is still around today.


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

Since I now have one I can say I enjoy my C-22. Almost everyone has recommended going to a club or rental and try the boat for a day. I was able to spend a night on one alone before I made my mind up. I was able to try several sailboats out. Clubs will help you find what is used in you area. The Catalina-22 is everyplace like a sunfish that is a huge statement. Almost everyone likes to help out. You will be the one that will have to make the choice, your first act as skipper. 
You will need to look at your comfort level and budget. Take your time making your decision. Buy a boat you can afford to sail and maintain or rent in a location that you dream about. 
Kind Regards, Lou


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

LakeMI Let us know what you decide and your view. It is nice to see the outcome. So many times the op seems to vanish 
Thanks in advance, Lou


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

I think that C22's are great boats, depending on what you want to use them for. That said, my eyebrows went up when I read that the OP plans to cruise with five people.

The sailing co-op that we belonged to had a great selection of boats, ranging from 20 to 27 feet. The smaller boats were great for day sailing, and some folks even went cruising in them. That said, my wife and I have found that our 30' boat meets our needs nicely.

Before you buy a boat, you may want to ask yourself:


What type of sailing do you want to do? e.g. day sailing, cruising or racing?
How many people are going to go with you, and what are their ages? Kids will want some private space.
What is your budget for a boat?
Once you have answered those questions, you should have a much better idea of what type of boat will meet your needs.


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