# Aft Cockpit vs Center Cockpit



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, I'm sure that this thread will not bring out any strongly held opinions or anything......

I'd like to have some general thoughts on the merits/disadvantages of the center cockpit design. And answers to some questions that might be a little bit ignorant........

We are considering weekending for a few years leading to liveaboard. Certainly long term coastal, and likely some limited blue water (Bermuda?)

Here are a few thoughts based on very limited experience.

Pluses of Center Cockpit:

Big Aft Owners Cabin (usually)
Visibility?????

Questions / Dis-Advantages:
How does a CC clear shipped water?
Is there an emergency tiller option on a CC boat? (where?????)
Proximity of master cabin to cockpit (noise, privacy, etc.)
getting aboard (versus an open transom, etc.)

Thoughts:
Certainly I don't like CC's on smaller boats from an appearance point of view.
If I were to consider a Pilot-House boat I don;t care for Aft Cockpit versions.
If it's good enough for a Hallberg-Rassey ..........(I REALLY like them)

I was reading ads in Sail magazine (I know not exactly an unbiased opinion) for sailboats and one ad I was reading made reference to something like this "....without the dis-advantages of a center cockpit......" That raised the obvious question ... "What disadvantages ????"

Thanks,
Fred


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Ajari...there are other threads on this so you might do a search for more but...

Advantages:
1. Huge aft cabin & PRIVACY
2. All around visibility...easier close quarters handling due to mid-ship position.
3. Ability to fully enclose cockpit without loss of visibility. 
4. aft deck space for storage of bycyicles, life refts etc. without impairing visibiity or access to foredeck. 
5. Dryer as it is harder to get pooped by a wave into the cockpit and since you are also higher. 
6. Easier motion in the cockpit since you are not hobby horsing at the end of the boat.

Disadvantages:
1.Less on deck locker space due to use of space below deck for aft cabin. 
2. Harder to dock since you cannot reach from the wheel to a piling. 
3. Ugly condo look if not done right...generally over 40' is required. Excess windage on some boats.
4. Sometimes poor ventilation in master cabin if blocked by cockpit.
To answer your other questions:

1. Cockpit is drained by scuppers and hoses led down through the hulljust like most aft cockpit boats . More and bigger is better. 
2. There is usually an emegency tiller fitting through the aft deck plate above the quadrant and a 2 piece emergency tiller that fits this opening and then runs forward. Sometimes it is quite klunky!! I like to think of my blow deck autopilot as my emergency tiller since it can steer the boat if the wheel system fails...and my real emergency tiller is my 3rd backup.
3. Cockpit noise has never been a problem...you still have a v-berth as a choice anyway.
4. Getting aboard is not an issue unique to CC boats...our BEST boat for getting aboard was our Irwin 44CC which had a motorized drop-down dive [latform which was great for off loading heavy stuff like groceries or laundry from the dink. 

Having owned both types of boats, I am a confirmed CC guy for living aboard especially since I am tall and the aft cabin lets me stretch out.


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## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

Got to dis-agree with the "easy motion" Mentioned in the prior reply and I'm not sure what is ment by "Hobby Horsing". I've sailed both a center cockpit and rear. My 42 is a rear cockpit. 
I found that If you're going to get seasick, you'll do it in a center cockpit. I've sailed many miles and never got a touch of the sickness UNTIL I sailed a center cockpit. If you're in any type of wave action where the boat is rocking around, as sailing down wind, wing on wing.
Your on top of the boat and swinging from side to side. In a rear cockpit, you're setting just a few inches above the water and the movement is minamized at the waterline.The boat is rolling around you.
The experance I had was in the delivering of a Choy Lee 65 foot center cockpit... The cockpit was about 10 feet above the waterline and whenever the boat rocked from side to side, I was swinging from atop the boat.. It was like being in the fly bridge of a powerboat.
I'm sure there are advantages of a center cockpit but after I hailed over the side a couple times, I did'nt care about the advantages...


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Cam, that was pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking. Like most people who ask the "what do you think about" sort of questions, I've probably made up my mind and am just looking for validation....... 

I agree with the more/bigger scuppers issue; coming from commercial fishing I am used to 8 or 10, 6"x12" clearing ports on deck (and REALLY needing them)

I don't think the in-cockpit storage issue would be a huge one for me. To be honest most lazarettes I've seen seem too wimpy, and potential sea-anchors if (when) the cockpit gets flooded. I'm really a "stow for sea" kind of guy.

The reality of spending more time on the hook than on passages makes the large master cabin a huge plus for me and the mate. 

Being of a "high-latitude" attitude, ease of enclosing of the cockpit might be a really nice bonus I'd really not thought about.

Thanks again, now to put together mi "wish-list" of characteristics, eliminate the ones that are mutually exclusive, and narrow down the search.....


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

RandyonR3 said:


> ....... never got a touch of the sickness UNTIL I sailed a center cockpit......... In a rear cockpit, you're setting just a few inches above the water and the movement is minamized at the waterline.The boat is rolling around you.............but after I hailed over the side a couple times, I did'nt care about the advantages...


Good points, all. I will definitley (sp?) take those into consideration.

I won't be buying before I've had a chance to sail in both types, I'm sure. Something else to be self-aware of......

Thanks, Fred


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Randy....true on some CC's and not on others...like most things, it all depends on the boat in question.


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## paul77 (Jul 5, 2007)

We recently went through this decision, and ended up buying a center cockpit. We were drawn towards center cockpit from the mind of having a cockpit enclosure, as our intentions are year round sailing in the puget sound. Many people do enclosures with aft cockpits as well, though aesthetically and functionally they don't work for me (at least in beamy modern designs). Once my fiance saw the aft cabin you get, there was pretty much no going back.

The other downside, my good friend with a beneteau 423 keeps reminding me of, is the reduced size of the salon area. This of course depends on perspective, as many will point out the giant salon could become a hazard if you are offshore. 

Depends a lot on the size of boats you are considering.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

My wife and I lived on aft cabin sailboats for 13 years and now on a center-cockpit sailboat for 23 years. I agree with all those comments from Camaraderie, but I would add that, though the "hobby-horse" action fore & aft rock would be greater with the aft cockpit, the port-starboard roll of the centercockpit can be troublesome if the cockpit is too high by design. Our main reason to switch to the center-cockpit came with a bigger boat and a need for space for our growing children. Ours was not a walk through layout so we were able to actually suggest to our children, "Go to your room" ! 'take care & joy, Aythya crew


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

On the seasick:
We rent a 45CC on the bay and love it. The wife has never been sick on it. We rent aft cocpits when the CC is not available and she does get sick occasionally when it's rough. I can testify to the hobby horse on a 26 footer - I know, not applicable here, but our 26 will almost eject you at times.


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## SailorPam (Sep 18, 2007)

We find we're drawn more to CC's also as we pursue our quest for a liveaboard. I appreciate the info here. I can see the potential for side to side hobby horsing on some of the "wedding cake" high-profile boats, but there are some with lower profiles that feel comfortable. I too like the central position of the helm, but a friend mentioned that he thought it may make it more difficult to read the trim on the main from that position. Any input from the cc sailors out there?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Repent ye sinners.

This way leads to the expressway to hell. 

Find an easier topic to discuss, you know like Arab v Jew , or Gore v Sailaway and PB. Abortion ? Conscription ? The Iraq war. Simple issues that won't get anyone upset. 



Seriously, if you have a significant other of the womanly persuasion you are going to like centre cockpits no matter what. Get over it. Only the unmarried like aft cockpits. Sailing ability and aesthetics do not come into it. 

You should know the ultimate golden rule of male longevity. You don't argue with a women you graciously accept her point of view as your own.

(damn that sounds might sextist for a BHL don't it ? )

Then again you could be so lucky to be aligned with the wonderful Ms Wombat who is adamant that she will not have a centre cockpit cos they just don't look right under mid 40' and that's getting bigger than we want. Gotta love that woman.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*he thought it may make it more difficult to read the trim on the main from that position.

*Cruising sailboats have biminis and dodgers. Tough to see the mainsail in either case but it is a good idea to build in a window in the top of the bimini so you can take a look. No difference between cc & aft in this regard in my opinion.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

On the larger aft cockpits the stern (master) becomes much more pleasing. Small boats, they are tight and the master will get pushed forward to the V.

I like CC's... but I agree that the rocking on a CC seems much more dramatic. Still, for a liveabord, it sure does give you a lot of space in the master. 

I also think, as a generality, you will get a much nicer cockpit on a aft cockpit. THis is where you spend a CONSIDERABLE amount of your time when LA/Cruising. Many CC's are too short for me to lay out in comfortably.

Just some of my thoughts. I also believe a aft cockpit will get rid of a boarding sea MUCH quicker than a center. But that is really a rare occurence. And as a CC, you will take a boarding sea less often.

- CD


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

We haven't had problems checking the main from the helm of a 45CC Morgan. We haven't sailed a huge number of different type boats but it's the most all around comfortable boat I've been on. The cockpit is roomy and great for a lot of friends to enjoy the sail together.


Not a disagreement CD, I didn't see your post before I pulled the trigger. I'm just speaking from my experience with one CC. There are a few very different models out there.

By the way, Click on the armadillio into my profile. That's the Morgan. See the window Cam mentioned? My wife commented on how much I used it. It works just fine.


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## FELTON (Dec 24, 2000)

I always get sick in center cockpit


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## FELTON (Dec 24, 2000)

Less storage on deck with center cockpit


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

Size is important! Smaller CC boats (less than 40+ ft ) look like wedding cakes. Movement apparent in cockpit can be more significant in CC boats. Weight placement may be the most important factor in this movement. My last boat, a 44CC, had the fuel tank under the aft berth and this boat had a pronounced "hobby horse" motion. My current boat, also a CC boat, has all tankage under the main cabin floor and has no "hobby horse" motion. This boat also has the CC pushed way aft of the mast and this also probably decreases the apparent motion.


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## jimmalkin (Jun 1, 2004)

Like the Missus Wombat, my Pri-Mate, (maybe because we lived in Sydney for 12 years) liked the aft cockpit. Her views - the forward cabin was spacious enough, the lazarette and cockpit seat lockers gave me a place to put boat stuff that she didn't want stuffed in the cabin and interior lockers and she wanted a less "divided" layout below. Odd, don't you think, that she didn't consider that I prefer the look of ac's rather than cc's?


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## wakked1 (Apr 26, 2007)

Motion wise, I suspect CC can be less prone to pitching (being closer to the midpoint of the boat, mast and keel) but significantly more prone to rolling (being generally higher). After spending some 40 hours rolling down the coast recently, I vote for minimizing rolling.


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## JohnF261 (Sep 21, 2006)

*Center Cockpit*

I bought my CC for the room below. I liked the aft cabin because at the time I was envisioning spending weekends with the admiral in some secluded gunkhole on the Chesapeake (it is a shoal draft). But the first weekend on the boat she discovered that spiders like sailing also. She HATES spiders. She told she would never be able to sleep knowing that spiders are aboard. So as it turns out, we spend more time in the cockpit daysailing  than cruising and using the cabin. It makes a nice storage area. I do like the visibility, and the high freeboard. The boat handles well, feels stable, and we stay high and dry. However if you enjoy the feel of sailing heeled over with spray on your face and a rail in the water get the aft cockpit. Bottom line, aft cabin for sailing and center cockpit for cruising. My two cents.


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## skipmac (Oct 31, 2007)

*And engine access*

One advantage to the CC design I have not yet seen mentioned is engine access. My last CC boat the cockpit floor would lift out exposing the whole engine room. Made any engine work much less unpleasant to have full light and fresh air. Just had to make sure no one stepped into the cockpit while the floors were up. I did install latches under the removeable section in case of knockdown or worse so we would not lose the floor and flood the boat.

After owning the boat several years we had a mechanical problem that required pulling the engine out of the boat while down island. Did not even have to haul to do the job. We pulled up to the commercial dock and had a small crane lift it straight up out of the boat.

On a day to day basis as a liveaboard the biggest advantage to me was a private aft cabin. I just have not seen any boats under 45' or so that had a good arrangement for a private owner's stateroom except the forepeak (aka sail locker and roughest ride in the house when sailing up wind). The motion in the center cockpit never bothered me.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Good point Skipmac...mine had 360 degree access as well...you are right that such good access is rarely found on aft cockpit boats of the same size. 
Welcome aboard!


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Well, you also have the other way to approach engine work. My engine is in the center of the cabin so I can work on it while sitting down in comfort without worrying about the weather outside or the lack of access. 

But my biggest objection to center cockpit boats is the fact that a lot of things are happing behind you. In an aft cockpit boat you can see almost everything from sail trim to crew working on deck without worrying about something happing unnoticed behind you. Of course just my opinion for what it’s worth and your mileage may vary.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

This was a big factor for me, as well. Unfortunately, the aluminum roof to the steel pilothouse means I'll be doing more unscrewing this week than a dyslexic porn star, but at the end of it, I'll just put a hook on the lifting eye and up and out comes the engine, and down into the bed of the pickup for an exam and possible rebuild.

In the meantime, with an empty engine bay, I will replace water tanks, install dual filters, paint everything half a dozen times, and install new mounts, couplers, exhaust system and batteries, all while standing up...

I winterized the old aft cockpit boat today as the new "custodian" needed to see it done, and hunched over the engine with a dissembled set of companionway stairs behind me, I realized I like the 360 degree access very much now.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Robert, I would agree with you in some designs, but I have an "inside" helm in the pilothouse, and a "sailing" helm on the aft deck with perfect visibility and a very modest cockpit that is more a footwell, but which has two 3-inch scuppers running down and aft to the transom. Both helms run on the same hydraulic steering system, and I have the ability to disconnect that in favour of a tiller that can run on blocks to a windvane. Typically, I start sails from the pilothouse and then switch to the sailing helm when we switch off the engine and start sailing. The addition of a hard bimini over the sailing helm (plus a throttle/shifter on the binnacle, currently absent) will encourage us to stay out of the pilothouse entirely unless the weather is truly appalling.


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

In many ways Valiente you have the best of both worlds. But with the weather and temperature you have in your neighborhood (Toronto) you need the inside steering station don’t you. One of the first things I did when I got my Tartan was to remove the dodger and bimini because I want unobstructed lines of sight in all directions.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Tartan34C said:


> In many ways Valiente you have the best of both worlds. But with the weather and temperature you have in your neighborhood (Toronto) you need the inside steering station don't you.


Not really, Robert: We typically launch at the end of April and haul at the end of October, and we don't usually see weather that requires more than a Gore-tex rain suit. The pilothouse is more the "command centre" when under power, because I have the plotter/compass/radio in there, but I still typically open the forward glass windscreen to hear what's going on forward. My wife will usually keep a watch on deck, or I will if she's steering, but until I get a helm seat, she's a little too short to steer from the pilothouse safely!

When I install a second throttle/shifter, I'll carry a handheld VHF and GPS (if needed) at the "sailing helm" and I can't see that I'll spend as much time in the pilothouse. We transit under sail exclusively from the deck.

Where I suspect the pilothouse will come into its own is in night passages/dawn, when I might wish to motor (and thereby keep well-lit) during calms and the pilothouse is considerably warmer than "outside". This will be particularly true when I need to observe radar.


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