# Average number of months for a sailboat to sell



## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Whadda ya think the average number of months a boat for sale sits as a listing before someone comes with cash? I'm looking for the next boat and have ID'd a few to look at prior to a survey. Wondering if time is on my side because I have so little of it. Don't get me wrong, once I own the boat it will be minutes from home and I can get plenty of sailing in.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

properly priced, decent boat, 2-4 months or less....most boats listed today.....6 months to never....

best of luck.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

It all depends on the make/model. A C&C at 15k may go a lot quicker than a Passport at 385k. 
If you have a boat in mind; go to sailboat listing and check when the sailboat was originally listed. This will give you a basic idea of the average length.
Please keep in mind the best deals will be snapped up. I recently was eyeballing a Catalina 22 with newer sails. I thought it was a good deal at $2500. It was; it sold in 2 months. Yet there are boats out there for well over a year.


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## CatMan22 (Apr 16, 2012)

I think a lot of it has to do with not only type of boat it is, but how the ad is written. I listed my Catalina 22 on a morning at 8:00 and had cash in hand at 4:00 that afternoon. I listed everything, good, bad and in between so there would be no surprises when looked at. I read ads then went and looked at boats and thought "this isn't even close to what the ad says" long story short most are still for sale, right now there is Hunter 25 and a J 24 being sold locally that the guy has been listing for over a year at the same price and he absolutely wont negotiate on them.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

You have an interesting dilemma. If you fall in love with a new boat, you're liable to take a bad offer on your old one. The pressure to sell could be especially intense if you put money on the new one before the old one is sold.

As my very wise wife once said, "_It's easy to spend money._" As one who's been in your position, I recommend stopping all searches until you've made a clean sale. Get the cash in hand and then look for a new boat. As my very wise mother told me "_There is always another bargain_". The women in my life are very wise. 

Without the pressure to sell, without self-induced deadlines you are free to concentrate on the financials. Only after selling our last boat did we begin a new search. It was very liberating to have a pocket full of cash, free to spend wherever I chose. It gave the broker quite an incentive as well.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Someone somewhere like at BUC probably has firm numbers for that. Personally, I've always said that if something is being properly/adequately marketed, and the price is realistic for the markets, it will be gone in 90 days or less. Six months, tops. 

Granted, a lot of folks want to buy in the spring rather than in the winter, but still if the price is right and the boat is being put out there...if it has been around for a full year, someone's not playing with a full deck.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

jppp said:


> Whadda ya think the average number of months a boat for sale sits as a listing before someone comes with cash? I'm looking for the next boat and have ID'd a few to look at prior to a survey. Wondering if time is on my side because I have so little of it. Don't get me wrong, once I own the boat it will be minutes from home and I can get plenty of sailing in.


What is the market like in your area? Are you seeing many boats on the market after the destruction of Trop. Storm Sandy?

Here in the mid-Atlantic, it still appears to be a buyer's market, with supply greater than demand. I browse Yachtworld occasionally for fun. Many sellers refuse to accept the new market reality, or perhaps can't afford to sell with the secured debt on their boat, so their boats are listed seemingly for years without selling. There are some great bargains out there.


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

I found a data somewhere, I don't remember the source, it's on internet, some broker's firm research, that in 2011 average selling time was 11 months.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

I've been watching the market for a couple years seriously I always watch a little. Their are boats on the market 3-4 years. One I negotiated on is down 30000 but still over market price and I have moved on to bigger better boats so no longer interested. Its a buyers market anyone who says it isn't is a broker (only some are clinging to this) or a boat owner. I sold mine last year kept dropping price until I found the true market. I had a 91 Tayana 47 under contract for $90000 this winter. We decided not to go through on it after consulting with Bob P. This boat sold within a few months because it was a decent buy. If priced right boats are selling but at CURRENT value not old overinflated prices. And more boat go on our list about every 2-3 weeks. No end in sight to supply. If you get a offer and CAN take it you should. I get calls from broker/owners wanting to sell at my offer price but we have moved on and no longer want those boats. Some of these were comprising boats because we would have been two boat owners. Now we are buying in a higher range.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

James,
Down in the Richmond area, it's more of a buyer's market (that's why I went to Deltaville to get my boat), but up in the NJ/NY area, there's a lot of movement due to Sandy. When I was watching the NY/NJ market more actively, I saw nice boats that were priced appropriately for the market that were snapped up in no time. In 2010/2011, when I was looking for my first boat, I would agree with you, the market was very soft, and boats would regularly sit for at least a year. Even back in September/October of 2012 it wasn't that way around here. But now the better boats get picket up quickly (I had 2 of them that were either sold before I could get out to them, or where another person offered more).

To the OP, I don't think I'd play too many games, unless you're OK missing out on the boat (my budget was low enough that I HAD to be OK with this idea). The story I'm told, and my experience, is that good boats in the 28'+ range are getting picked up quickly. I'm not sure what size you're looking for, but if you find a good boat that you like, offer a fair price, or have a good, rational basis for the price you're offering, and if the seller isn't interested, be prepared to walk away. You can always take the "I know this is low, so I'll keep the offer open for 2-3 weeks, or until I find another boat" approach, too.


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## theonecalledtom (Jan 2, 2008)

CrazyRu said:


> I found a data somewhere, I don't remember the source, it's on internet, some broker's firm research, that in 2011 average selling time was 11 months.


I just sold one boat and bought another and I think the average last year was similar but brokers seemed to feel that business was picking up.

My boat went in a month, for the price I listed it at, which was very reasonable to get a quick sale and the boat was obviously not rotting. Most if not all boats I looked at I felt were at minimum 20% over value, had been sat on the market a while, and had a sad air of neglect, a couple were downright depressing.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

What a resource this site is. I thank you all for your insight. My situation is I don't have a boat that needs to be sold, but rather disposed of. I'm in the market for a r/c 30-35' 1980-'90. Hopefully one that can be sailed home within 4 weekends or so. I have contacted 3 owners/brokers to find out if the listed boat is still available. All three are. My next step is to go see them, but work prevents me at this time. I hate being the guy who keeps calling but not showing up. I guess if it sells by the time I'm ready, it wasn't meant to be. Should I also assume that if a listing over 6 months is still active it is priced too high?


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

jppp said:


> My next step is to go see them, but work prevents me at this time...


If they are out of your immediate local area, you may find help in the Boat Buying Assistance thread on this site. Various people have volunteered to go take an initial look at a boat in their area, to recommend whether it's worth your while to travel.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> Should I also assume that if a listing over 6 months is still active it is priced too high?


I think it's too broad a statement - if one drops the price low enough, any reasonably maintained boat will be bought. So we could extend the statement to say that any boat on the market longer than a week is priced too high. On the other hand, it could just mean that the right buyer hasn't found it yet for a variety of reasons not related to price. If a house is on the market for more than 6 months, is it priced too high? Not necessarily and there are a lot more home buyers than sailboat buyers.

As with home values, _recent_ comp sales are the most reliable judge of _current_ value.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

The average days on the market for a boat in 2012 was 298 days, that is the average. Some boats sell in one day others take years it all depends on market demand and proper pricing.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

When I sold my last boat, the average was 2 years.


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## theonecalledtom (Jan 2, 2008)

Sabreman said:


> As with home values, _recent_ comp sales are the most reliable judge of _current_ value.


If you can get your hands on this data (ask your broker) you'll be able to compare sale price with time on market and also estimate depreciation. Basic data doesn't give you boat condition but you can guess that from the sale price and speed of sale.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

My experience has been that "market" averages are pretty meaningless. Getting an average time for reasonably similar market segment boats would be useful - how long do Huntabenelinas stay unsold for example.

If you just look at the market as a whole, individual boats vary so much, so many have a very small target market and so forth that general averaging isn't very meaningful.

Look at Brent's comment about 2 years for steel hardcore cruising boats - very limited market so you have to wait for the right person to come along.

Outdated racing boats also - you have to wait for just the right person - the "average" buyer is unlikely to be interested.

I also think the overall average would be pretty heavily affected by unrealistic vendors trying to sell near project boats for bristol prices. When I do an average of asking prices for a particular boat I'm looking at, I throw out the top & bottom prices before calculating the average. That tends to eliminate the dreamers and the real trash.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

BoatUS and NADA both have pricing data available, for free. NADA is great, because you don't have to interact with them. BoatUS's information may be more accurate, but you have to give them information (including your contact info) before they will send you the pricing.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

jimgo said:


> BoatUS and NADA both have pricing data available, for free. NADA is great, because you don't have to interact with them. BoatUS's information may be more accurate, but you have to give them information (including your contact info) before they will send you the pricing.


I have found that NADA values seem low, now if that is a more realistic value, or is it what the insurance companies want to pay out if there is a claim? I am not sure, but many boats I look at I take the printout and they mostly say the same thing, that number is way off. I walk, and the boat is still on the market.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Paul,
I heard the same thing from would-be sellers, and walked away too. Many private sellers don't have a rational basis for the price they use. Instead, it is based on emotional issues associated with the boat. They look at what a friends boat sold for 10 years ago, or what they paid for the Boat or the accessories on the boat, or what friends tell them their boat should be worth, but they don't use resources like NADA or BoatUS. Unfortunately, as with any realestate transaction, the price is what a willing buyer will pay. Either you set the price high and hope for that willing buyer who will pay that price, or you set the price at a more reasonable price and attract more buyers.

In the end, despite the protestations of sellers, the NADA and BoatUS numbers seem to be pretty accurate. I believe BoatUS actually gets their numbers from the insurance policies that they write and comes from the buyers as to what they paid for the boat. I think that puts BoatUS in the best position to be able to judge the market.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

This is a case where "average" is a meaningless number. If one foot is in a bucket of ice, and the other is in a bucket of boiling water, on "average" you are very comfortable.

Here in Florida, at least, there are boats that sell in weeks, and there are boats that have been on the market for years and years. It really depends on how realistically they are priced, and the fact is that a whole lot of sellers are unrealistic about what their boat is worth. Watch the market for a while, go out and actually look at a number of boats (because the photos in ads can be completely misleading), and pretty soon you will get an idea of what a realistic range is for the kind of boat that you want.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> Someone somewhere like at BUC probably has firm numbers for that. Personally, I've always said that if something is being properly/adequately marketed, and the price is realistic for the markets, it will be gone in 90 days or less. Six months, tops.
> 
> Granted, a lot of folks want to buy in the spring rather than in the winter, but still if the price is right and the boat is being put out there...if it has been around for a full year, someone's not playing with a full deck.


just a datapoint:

There is a Pearson 36-2 that has been listed in Yachtworld (with several different brokers and price reductions) since 2006! It's _still _listed, as of today!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Since 2006?
"Honey, I'm trying to sell the boat, honest I am."
"Hello, Guinness? I'd like to apply for the world record for longest running boat ad."

Or sometimes, apparently the broker forgets to take a listing down and it stays there like an abandoned fishing trap?

No wait, that's one of those fake ads placed by terrorists, or spies, so they can send emails back and forth without being obvious about it, right?

Or, an estate sale, where the court-appointed administrator keeps himself appointed and paid every year by saying "Well, we're trying to get full value for the assets but that boat just won't sell."

A seven year listing, there's got to be a story behind it. Is that the one in Groton, or Winthrop Harbor? If you believe the listings, they're both gorgeous. And flawless.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Easy story, the boat was overpriced in 06 the dumbass broker kept telling him it takes time. Then the economy takes a dive and they reduce the price. Then the boat market falls more and it's still over priced. Still for sale because the price drop has not caught up with the market drop. The market is bad check out the Kaufman 46 in Michigan $39000 and no Body is interested. No interest in that boat just a example.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

Easy story continued, I'm a dumbass broker, client walks in and insists his 1979 Catalina 30 is worth 30K because he upgraded the bottom paint 20 years ago, wont listen to reason so I list it, 4 years later he has spread the news that I'm the worst broker in town. I sell properly priced boats in 2-6 months, on the same note I have boats I haven't shown in years. When a client walks in I ask if they want to sell their boat or hang a pretty picture on my wall. Its all so easy. FYI Boats are selling our last listed boat went into contract in 1 day.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

ctl, you and I both know you can't compare a Kaufman46 to a Pearson anything in terms of market and sales.

The Pearsons, all of them, are well-known, popular, in demand all over the country. The Kaufman? What, some oddball name semi-custom racer that no one has ever heard of? Old racers aren't competitive with new ones, so yeah, there's no resale market for them to racers. And usually they don't convert well to cruising. That Kaufman is also going to be a problem to transport, as it is wide enough to require wide-load permits if it goes by truck. With two mini-cockpits, you can't entertain and the six or eight foot wide steering wheel isn't going to make that any easier. The six feet wasted in the radical reverse transom also means the boat is really a 40'er with two tiny cockpits, there goes there cruising market entirely. And unless she has a wall full of trophies and a racing record to go with them? Right, no resale value in an old oddball racer at all. At the right price, in the right condition, she'd be a pretty toy for someone but that's still got ODDBALL written all over it.

The Kaufman? An oddball that has to be pushed. The Pearson? There are people out there every day looking for them. Big difference.

Which is not to say the Kaufman isn't a pretty boat, just that it is NOT a commodity-grade one, in any usual way.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Didn't say all brokers I have friends in the field. And yes your story is probably the more common one. Sorry if you took it as all. Yes boats priced right are selling .Stevens 47 list $89000 sold $60000.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Google Kaufman not really a unknown. But yes it is a narrow market boat. The draft is killing it here.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

OK - I'll share some more of what I know, but not everything. I don't want to embarrass the seller, or the broker (any more than I have). It is neither of the boats that you mention (but you're close).

From what I understand, the owner received an unsolicited offer from a buyer in 2005. The offer was too good to walk away from, and the owner agreed to the asking price. The boat was hauled for a survey, and something happened to kill the deal.

When I first learned of this particular boat, in 2007, the price was roughly 170% of comparable boats, and it had been listed with a broker for almost 9 months (at least as far as I could tell - the trick is; when you see a boat listed in Yachtworld, click the "Print This Boat" link, and it will show you when the boat was listed AT THE CURRENT PRICE). Because I really wanted a Pearson 36-2 I followed this boat until I bought my O'day 35 in 2010.

Over the years I have watched as other boats have sold, or dropped in price. While this boat has also dropped in price it has never been at the low end of the price spectrum (or even the middle) for this model. I believe that the buyer priced it too high to begin with, and thereby scared away all of the potential buyers when he first listed it. Since then, they have been chasing the bottom of the market.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Those were the only two showing in YW, so either the boat has finally sold, or it is not being listed as a 36-2.

ctl-
In the larger world, again? Maybe racers know Kaufman, but racers don't want an old less-than-spectacular race boat. In the larger world? "George Kaufman" oh, right, you must mean Kaufman and Hart, the Broadway composers ! Rings the wrong bell, doesn't it? (G)

By definition, it WILL sell, it the price is right (as defined by the marketplace) and if anyone knows it is for sale. Marketplace for an obsoleted purpose-built boat? Well, the Navy _scraps _a lot of those, too.

Such a shame, it is a pretty boat.

I was shown an aluminum 36 some years ago, also semi-custom, almost flush decked, tiny "pit" of a cockpit. All it needed was to tear off the _entire _deck, rebuild it with a conventional cabin and cockpit and...Right, a total killer.

I wonder if there's a boating equivalent of Jay Leno's garage, a place where obsoleted boats can hang out and be admired?


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Along the same lines, there are many old IOR raceboats that are no longer competitive as racers nor easily handled as cruisers, without some extensive modifications, lingering on Yachtworld for fairly low prices, along with some unrealistic seller.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Its not about "that' boat. OK your a Pearson guy P 36's on sailboat lists great lakes to east coast take your pick mid $20000. Point being the boat market is flooded. Pick about any type of boat.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

I wish the market was flooded but its not. For those of us seeking high quality boats there is very little to choose from. The market is flooded with cheap unwanted junk though.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes lots of junk to wade through.


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

I planned for a year and sold in less then a week - yikes. The boat was very clean and very well taken care of. I was serious about selling and the first buyer was serious about buying and had done his homework. We both walked away happy.

It's amazing how many dirty, smelly and poorly maintained boats are out there. 

I would say the market is saturated with less than desirable boats and the good ones sell fast. Honestly, the brokers have really been pretty dead on for price of sale and length of time to sell.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Those were the only two showing in YW, so either the boat has finally sold, or it is not being listed as a 36-2.


There at least 6 36-2's listed as a 36, but any after 85 would be a mark 2.

I have been looking at Pearsons as well! ;-)


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Check sailboat lists for 36-2 Pearson's one on there is a one owner always fresh water boat. I think it was $45000 in Chicago.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> Those were the only two showing in YW, so either the boat has finally sold, or it is not being listed as a 36-2.


Check your settings for the search... There is a Pearson 38, and about 6 Pearson 36-2s Criteria should be Pearson 36-38' 1985-1991


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> It's amazing how many dirty, smelly and poorly maintained boats are out there.


I've seen boats that look like the owners just walked off after a weekend partying, sheets on the bunks, food in the refridge rotting, smelly books. Ick.

There is a Cabo Rico 38 just sitting in the slip across us. Its' been for sale for _years_. Every storm beats her up a little more, the canvas shreds a little more. I almost tried to convince my wife to let me buy it to save her... but then I came to my senses.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

jimgo said:


> Paul,
> I heard the same thing from would-be sellers, and walked away too. Many private sellers don't have a rational basis for the price they use. Instead, it is based on emotional issues associated with the boat. They look at what a friends boat sold for 10 years ago, or what they paid for the Boat or the accessories on the boat, or what friends tell them their boat should be worth, but they don't use resources like NADA or BoatUS. Unfortunately, as with any realestate transaction, the price is what a willing buyer will pay. Either you set the price high and hope for that willing buyer who will pay that price, or you set the price at a more reasonable price and attract more buyers.
> 
> In the end, despite the protestations of sellers, the NADA and BoatUS numbers seem to be pretty accurate. I believe BoatUS actually gets their numbers from the insurance policies that they write and comes from the buyers as to what they paid for the boat. I think that puts BoatUS in the best position to be able to judge the market.


One boat I want to look at BoatUS lists it as $33,676.00, but NADA is at 23,000 kind of a big difference. I know what side I prefer!


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## n8kraft (Dec 31, 2009)

I listed my boat and sold it in less than a week on craigslist. I had three buyers lined up for showings on Saturday and the boat was sold by 0830. Catalina 27, $5000 in May 2012 in San Diego. The boat was presentation ready and priced to sell.


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## katsailor (Jan 6, 2013)

n8kraft said:


> I listed my boat and sold it in less than a week on craigslist. I had three buyers lined up for showings on Saturday and the boat was sold by 0830. Catalina 27, $5000 in May 2012 in San Diego. The boat was presentation ready and priced to sell.


Reasonably priced to sell, bristol condition and not a project.  Not like a bunch of over-priced ill maintained stuff you have wade through out there. Most of the time $5000 is the asking price for the hull.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

barefootnavigator said:


> ...client walks in and insists his 1979 Catalina 30 is worth 30K because he upgraded the bottom paint 20 years ago, wont listen to reason so I list it, 4 years later he has spread the news that I'm the worst broker in town.


What I don't get is why a broker would even take a listing like that. You know it's not going to sell. Which means that you know you're not going to make any money on it. Why waste your time?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

That's easy, d0n. You can't get a sale unless you get the customer in the door. If you've got the contract with the seller, no one else does. So you take both off the market and when things are slow you can adjust them down. Or not waste much time on it. Have you ever noticed many brokers didn't waste any time finding out details? "Here's the listing, have a nice day."

I'm not saying that's the best way to do it, just that it is done that way quite often.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

hellosailor said:


> So you take both off the market and when things are slow you can adjust them down.


I suppose I can understand that. But then, it seems to me like it doesn't take too many like the above, where the seller ends up bad-mouthing the broker all over town, to make it not worth the occasional, eventual sale.

I guess what I'm thinking of is the real estate brokers office that I worked in a couple of summers, back when I was a kid. I know that he would refuse to list houses if the owner was not realistic about a price. Said it wasn't worth his time, and that it made him look bad if he carried a bunch of houses that never sold. I would think the same would apply to boat brokers, but maybe they don't think of it the same.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> I suppose I can understand that. But then, it seems to me like it doesn't take too many like the above, where the seller ends up bad-mouthing the broker all over town, to make it not worth the occasional, eventual sale.
> 
> I guess what I'm thinking of is the real estate brokers office that I worked in a couple of summers, back when I was a kid. I know that he would refuse to list houses if the owner was not realistic about a price. Said it wasn't worth his time, and that it made him look bad if he carried a bunch of houses that never sold. I would think the same would apply to boat brokers, but maybe they don't think of it the same.


This is the smart thing to do. Some brokers like to fill up a page so it looks like they have lots of listings even though the sellers are not realistic or serious about selling. I wanted to look at one boat and it was a 4 hour drive away but could not make it before the end of the season. The seller said "it is off the market for the winter." The boat was for sale for several more years. Obviously the wife had said "you better sell that boat," and his response was "I am trying honey, but the market is slow" meanwhile enjoying all the sailing he wanted to. I think the broker was OK because when someone called about that boat he had you in the door and he could take you around to other boats, saying "he is not very serious about selling his boat, but this guy with this other boat is very motivated..."

As long as both parties are OK with the deal. Of course some sellers want to sell but either owe too much or think the boat is worth way more than it is. They really need a serious sit down, and have someone say to them, "the only way this boat will sell is if you are willing to take less than $X and if not then I will have to remove/not take your listing."


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It may have already been said, but a $5000-$10000 dollar boat, in good shape, probably sells much quicker than a 30000-$100000 boat.

Maybe than once you get to the really expensive ones, they sell a little quicker.

You have the rich, that have the money, the poor that have passion, and the middle class that has bills.


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## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

As one that's been in the market I'll say that all the listings of unmaintained boats in poor condition and of unreasonable owners' asking prices makes it tough to pare down what is a good asking price or offer for a boat.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Both boats, same year and make that I'm looking at are asking almost double the nada guide. I don't want to insult anyone. But that just lowered my first offer. I understand its a dance between buyer and seller. They gotta say yes before you buy the flowers.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

denverd0n said:


> I suppose I can understand that. But then, it seems to me like it doesn't take too many like the above, where the seller ends up bad-mouthing the broker all over town, to make it not worth the occasional, eventual sale.
> 
> I guess what I'm thinking of is the real estate brokers office that I worked in a couple of summers, back when I was a kid. I know that he would refuse to list houses if the owner was not realistic about a price. Said it wasn't worth his time, and that it made him look bad if he carried a bunch of houses that never sold. I would think the same would apply to boat brokers, but maybe they don't think of it the same.


It's the same with boats. There is a local broker that will list boats with absurd prices and they sit. I have had people ask me if he ever sells anything, which he does but the sitters do create that impression.


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