# What do you actually need on a boat?



## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm a Canadian shopping for a winter getaway boat I will keep in Florida, spend a few months on every winter.
After looking at a million boats on Yachtworld and sailboatlistings, I have narrowed my range and I'm looking forward to finally start visiting boats next week. The forums here have been so useful, by the way, mostly for eliminating problem boats.
The process has got me thinking about what you need on a boat and what you don't need.
One of the things I like about sailing is the way it makes you engage with the physical world in a simpler way. I like that my boat isn't like my apartment. In my summer cruises in Canada, I don't mind hand-washing clothes, having cold showers. 
Partly because of maintenance requirements, I think I would prefer a boat with less gear. I don't want a microwave, air conditioning, a tv, mainsail furling, water maker, bow thrusters or an electric windlass. I hope to mostly anchor out, charge the batteries with solar panels, and don't want a bunch of power-hungry systems to worry about. I could live without refrigeration, a chart plotter and hot water, but I don't see too many boats without those things.
I can see from all the millions of ads I've looked at that not everybody shares my desire. Some boats are just crammed with gadgets. In some cases, I would guess the owners like fussing with gadgets as much as they like sailing, and good for them.
I don't mean to disdain those who like their systems, but want to learn if there are other sailors who see this as I do and have insights on what you actually need and what you don't.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

If i was sailing Florida and camping on a boat with little luxuries, I would get a small 20 to 30 foot trimaran. most don't have many systems, they have little draft to anchor in shoal places or beach to go a shore and will get you farther in a day to see more in a day. they can be store on a trailer out of the water and easy to move to new locations.


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

I've been sailing monohulls for decades though and have never been on a cat. They make me nervous.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I don't think it comes down to “insight” as much as if you don't have something you learn to do without it. Doesn't mean that life is better without it. There isn't anything on my boat that my life and enjoyment would be better without.

In the end if there are things on your boat that you would be happier without, just don't use it.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

PopeyeRideau said:


> I've been sailing monohulls for decades though and have never been on a cat. They make me nervous.


notice I did not say Cat i said Trimaran a different animal. you did not say what size you are looking for, single hand or with a crew. big boats are mostly for more people so more systems small boats are easier to single hand. lots of skinny water in florida


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

My boat is on the more simple side of life. But it is still very comfortable and easy to live on for long periods.

We don't have any of your list items (microwave, air conditioning, a tv, mainsail furling, water maker, bow thrusters or an electric windlass). We do have a manual windlass, a chartplotter (three in fact), and a fridge/freezer. And we have hot water on demand -- it's called a pot on the stove .

Far more importantly, we have a floating home that is comfortable and well equipped for long-duration independence. Large storage, big tanks, good anchoring gear (with the skills to use it), a composting head, and enough solar/wind to keep the batteries healthy. For entertainment we have our electronic gadgets to watch movies and check email (when connected). And we have a good dinghy, plus a couple of inflatable kayaks which come out when we're anchored in one place for a while.

One certainly doesn't need all the latest doodads and creature comforts to be comfortable and safe. Some people here get on just fine with far less stuff that I have (talk to Arcb for example). What _you_ need to feel comfortable and safe can really only be answered by you.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Not going to be able to anchor out for long if you need to get ice and a hot shower every couple of days, and pulling the anchor by hand on a bigger boat gets old in a hurry.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

As long as it floats you don't need anything first year.

Many buy the boat 'fit it out' then sail off and in a year realise they fitted it out with 90% codswallop. Expensive codswallop at that.

By buying a boat thats more similar to your Canadian sailing style you might be able to afford a bit bigger boat, or one thats a bit newer.

I've had my boat for 12 years living on it fulltime. The water heater only worked with the engine. So I bought a plastic bag solar water heater for $20. Great!! 
This year, after 12 years, I spent $1,000 on a new hot water heater I can now use at a dock. But docks are not on my plan for the next few years. Go figure!


So my advice is buy the boat you can. If it needs something you will know after your first year. Buy that bit of junk then. You'll save thousands


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Completely agree with Mark's wise words. Get a good, solid boat with all the basics, and then go out for a while and discover what you want and need. Ten cruisers or forum members will give you twelve different opinions on what you need. The best thing to do is go find out for yourself.



capttb said:


> Not going to be able to anchor out for long if you need to get ice and a hot shower every couple of days, and pulling the anchor by hand on a bigger boat gets old in a hurry.


Completely agree about the windlass for anything bigger than say a 32-footer. My previous 34-footer had no windlass, but I had a much younger back in those years. I appreciate my manual windlass.

One does not need a fridge or ice, but it certainly makes life more pleasant. Nice to have cold beer on hot days.

I've never owned a boat with a built in shower. I suppose I'd like it very much. We do just fine with a converted black bug sprayer. I used the bag for years, but prefer this approach because you can pressurize it, and it seems to get hotter, faster (similar to this one).


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

I don't mind cold showers. Spent three months in Mexico last winter and every place I stayed had cold water only. You don't mind it after a few days.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Hard to know how to answer this question as no two sailors see anything the same. Also, in my 20s, I felt substantially differently than I do today. Needs morph. 

If your mission is to be as minimalist as possible, I would start as light as possible and add as you go. 

Personally, there was no phase for me that ever thought having no refrigeration for more than a week was a good idea. 

Curious what you consider gadgets that are being fussed with.


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks! That looks like a good rig. I like the idea of a manual windlass. My thinking is that mechanical is better than electrical. Have been looking at mechanical coffee grinders, blenders, washing machines.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> So my advice is buy the boat you can. If it needs something you will know after your first year. Buy that bit of junk then. You'll save thousands


Thats the truth! Don't put things on your boat till you have spent time on it and you have said "wish I had X" multiple times


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

PopeyeRideau said:


> Thanks! That looks like a good rig. I like the idea of a manual windlass. My thinking is that mechanical is better than electrical. Have been looking at mechanical coffee grinders, blenders, washing machines.


Funny... I have owned manual coffee grinders, blenders and washing machines. Discovered buying ground coffee is easier on the boat (although not as good). I never really needed a blender, but do appreciate my manual food mixer. And my washing machine is still manual: a bucket and aerating plunger.

My approach to systems on my boat is to try and use either highly reliable ones (like chartplotters or radios), OR use one I can maintain and repair with my limited skills and capabilities. For me this often means leaning more to mechanical devices. Manual windlass, windvane, manual winches.

But I'm no luddite. I have plenty of electrical devices on board: lights, pumps, radar, depthsounder, chartplotter, electric tiller pilot, and yes a fridge/freezer.

I really think Mark is bang on: Get a sound boat with all the basic systems. Then get out and cruise for a while. You sound like you've already got experience cruising up here in Canada (Great Lakes?). Use that experience, and get some more, before making definitive decisions about what you think you need/want.


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks for your comments. I think we have similar philosophies about these things. I distrust unreliable electrical things, worry about them breaking. Had a look at your blog. I'd love to sail around Newfoundland, as you are doing. Must be great. I've opted for the Bahamas, though, so shouldn't complain.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Give Hereshoff’s “The Compleat Cruiser” a read. Our lack of shore power, AC, refrigeration, stereo system and hot water has not stopped us from exploring the coast and islands from New York, NY to Northeast Harbor, ME.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

PopeyeRideau said:


> I'm a Canadian shopping for a winter getaway boat I will keep in Florida, spend a few months on every winter.
> 
> After looking at a million boats on Yachtworld and sailboatlistings, I have narrowed my range and I'm looking forward to finally start visiting boats next week. The forums here have been so useful, by the way, mostly for eliminating problem boats.
> 
> ...


We got by for many years with just the basics, because our last boat was an old race boat. We had an ice box, and used a solar shower which worked so well that sometimes in the summer it got too hot to use. We didn't have a proper anchor locker or windlass, and as a result we avoided anchoring, which worked fine for us since we had so many dock cruising options.

Now we have a boat with a lot more systems, and we are feeling very spoiled!

We don't have a microwave, laundry, air conditioning, and a generator, nor would I want any of those things.

We do however, have heat, which we love, and have used a lot already. (Many people in hot climates feel the same about A/C, although that is a very power hungry feature compared to heat)

Refrigeration is something that we have wanted for a long time. We are tired of the constant quest for ice, the icebox volume taken up by blocks, the constant water in the icebox etc. If you plan on being on the boat for more than a few days at a time I think it is a luxury you would appreciate having.

We have an electric windlass that can also be manually operated. I don't know why you wouldn't want one. I certainly wouldn't enjoy manually grinding up 150ft of chain and an anchor every time now let alone as I get older.

When it comes to electronics we have a full suite....wind, speed, depth, chart plotter, autopilot, and vhf all networked together. Do we NEED that? Not really, but it sure is nice having all that data at my fingertips. We are just getting used to having autopilot....it is very useful when you want to leave the helm to make adjustments etc.

Of course you haven't told us what size or age of boat you are looking for. It is very possible that most of the boats you look at will already have these things, because these days they are all pretty standard equipment. Just make sure that whatever systems your new boat comes with are functioning properly, then you can try them out, upgrade them if you like, or just don't use them if you don't.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We have a manual windlass. 90 ft chain plus 360 of 3 strand. Never any issues. Double action. Each pump 1 ft.
Never worry about it not working. No extra heavy wire or battery


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have lived with boats at pretty much all points in this spectrum. Will say this.
Taking a hot shower in a dedicated shower stall 500+ miles offshore is sybaritic. Especially if the prior days were tough going.
Not having soap residue on your dishes is nice. Rinsing off after a swim or snorkel is oh so nice. Have 200g but still needed to ration. Watermakers are life changing as is not worrying about the quality of the water you can pick up shore side. 
We have a flatscreen. It’s never used.
We have lots of speakers and a subwoofer. Totally changes your mood when working or just need a lift. Much nicer then even the best headphones. It’s used on occasion. 
Have all chain and commonly use 150-200 ft. Rarely use less than 100’. Windlass goes south I’m not moving until it’s fixed.
Have AC it’s rarely used. But to dry out the boat and make it possible to sleep in those rare high humidity no wind times it’s a blessing. We rarely are in slips. But unlike being at anchor it’s often windless, hot and muggy. AC changes that equation. 
Have hydronic heat with multiple zones. Again rarely used. But dramatically increases ability to do activity of daily living and therefore safety when in use.
Have frig freezer. This means independence from the shore for long times of us.

Cruising boats are domiciles. As said above for long term cruisers there’s the same list of comforts they want. There are many different approaches to achieve those wants. Differentiate wants from needs but realize needs are somewhat dependent upon cruising grounds. Water, food, cover, reasonable ambient temperature and humidity end up being needs not wants for the liveaboard lifestyle. Sure there are hardy souls that will tolerate a greater level of discomfort. But don’t romanticized it. It’s still discomfort.


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

These replies are great. Thank you all. Really enjoying these forums.
It's so useful when you're trying to figure out how make a big investment like this to learn from other people.
There are excellent arguments to be made for not buying a sailboat in Florida, but I've been daydreaming about it for a long time and I am going to do it.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

From a practical perspective, I think what you really need on a boat are; adequate sleeping arrangements, adequate cooking arrangements and adequate toilet facilities. In addition to that, the boat needs to be capable of navigating safely in your intended cruising area.

Each persons definition of adequate could vary considerably in each area. 

Given what you have described, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a trailer sailer that follows you down to Florida in the winter and follows you back to Canada for the summer. We take our time to trailer down in day light only. Split over 3 days, it's 7-8 hour days of trailering per day. 

Personally I think a lot of the best cruising in Florida benefits from a fairly shallow draft. Something like a trailerable trimaran gives you speed, shallow draft and pretty good stability. There are lots trailerable monohulls that could work too.

Trailering would eliminate a lot of the storage and maintenance issues associate with living a long distance from uour boat.


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

What you say is true, although I don't have a car or truck and hope to cross to the Bahamas and eventually go farther afield. I can see enormous advantages of trailer sailing, but I don't think it's for me.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

When searching for a cruising boat, tankage is important. How much water you can carry will change your experience. How much waste you can hold, without pumping out, will change your experience. Fuel impacts safety and range, despite the fact that a sailboat doesn't technically need a motor.

One thing I would never do without is a separate salt water faucet at the galley. Whether an electric pump or foot pump, it avoids use of potable water to wash dishes, until needing a slight rinse at the end. From the sounds of it, I'm doubting you'll have a water maker, so things to conserve water will be critical.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

If you don't have a tow vehicle, trailering doesn't make much sense considering the price of trucks and Vans. 

If thats the case, I would say it's worth your while to get some displacement under you. May as well go big enough to get some headroom, decent tanks, private head and an inboard deisel.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Arcb said:


> From a practical perspective, I think what you really need on a boat are; adequate sleeping arrangements, adequate cooking arrangements and adequate toilet facilities. In addition to that, the boat needs to be capable of navigating safely in your intended cruising area.
> 
> Each persons definition of adequate could vary considerably in each area.
> 
> .


I skipped through a lot but this post moved in the correct direction.

Once living on a boat it starts to be a "home." It needs to be comfortable for those days when you are sick and tired. It needs to have a "nest" quality.

We have simple boats. We found when looking for our bigger boat the berth took in a LOT of consideration. No climbing over one another to pee. We bought a rather inexpensive foam mattress that is wonderful.

You really, really need somewhere to get out of the relentless sun. And not into a solar oven. And you need ventilation. Dorades allow air w/o rain. Fans are really good. And really good bug screens. In short the boat needs to be a place of refuge, not a solitary confinement cell.

And along these lines, IMHO, in the tropics you "need" a decent cooler. Something capable of making ice. Because you NEED to stay hydrated and warm water just goes down hard sometimes.

Shower? No. We have tried several arrangements and my Wife finds the easiest is a 2-1/2 gallon bucket with a little 12V pump and a hose. Want warm water? Kettle. We use kerosene for cooking, less hassle than finding propane refills. But either is adequate, but have good tanks.

You need adequate water supplies. It's generally not a problem but the tanks need to be clean and functioning. Foot pumps work great and save water.

You need some amount of electrical storage for anchor lighting if nothing else. We find our fridge, which we think is a necessity, (also Cold drinks helps to lure onboard creatures of amorous desires) requires a good battery bank and recharging capability. This is probably the most onerous of all things on the list. Our Canadian boat does not have a fridge but the tropics would be killer without. We have 4 GC's in a 12VDC system. And also have substantial solar and wind. These things will be a challenge in a small boat. Without you need some charging capability, a Honda 2000/2200 will do nicely and provides 120VAC for tools and other charging needs.

And tools, lots of tools.

Good luck.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

M y usual comment.... the boat you should buy and the way you equip it will be driven by

your budget
how and where you sail
the boat's architecture

As Out writes your boat can be and often is intended as a home. As such you should include what you need to make it comfortable. I've lived on board in the tropics... no need for heat... and mostly in the north east USA where heat is almost mission critical in cool times of the year. I decided on diesel fired forced air for many reasons. 

I anchor whenever I possibly can... and avoid docks and slips. The idea is to be getting away.. from civilization, noise, etc. A boat for me is freedom, independence and being in nature. But it does include "technology" to do things. I use all chain and a vertical reversing windless with a remote cockpit switch. This facilitates single handed anchor work. Windlass was replaced once after 15 years. It's reliable. Tech means more electricity and a robust system... perhaps alter charging sources.

As I am not on docks 12v refer was not a good idea. What I discovered from using the boat before refer or windless is that I would typically motor in the morning to get off the anchor/mooring, raise the sail and even do a channel until I could sail. Why not use the engine for more than propulsion? So I do..., I get a lot of battery charging and power for an electric windlass... and of course hot water. Reverse in the evening when returning to port.

You should do an "energy budget"... compute your typical daily consumption... day and night.. and then how you can replace what you have used. This exercise led me to rather large maintenance free house bank.. separate small start, some solar to trickle charge the house, all LED lighting (over the years as this is relatively new)

I found large tanks are only an issue if you are on a long passage of anchored well off the beaten track. But most of the time fuel and water and food are available within a day's sail. I carry jerry cans for passage. I installed (now removed) a water maker which means you don't have to scrip on water. I am not doing passages now.

A robust below decks AP which is low power draw... and can work independent of GPS is not a bad idea. 

Nav electronics offers many fabulous possibilities for data and connectivity anywhere. It can be spendy... or you can go simple and certainly have redundancy. We have multiple screens / plotters... VHF and so forth.

You should carry an inventory of spares and the further off you wonder the more complete your spares (and tools) should be. I carry extra: coolant circulating pump, impellers, engine seals, belts, filters, oil, antifreeze, teleflex cables, gaskets, AP control head, windlass motor, oodles of screws, bolts, washers etc., shackles, blocks, rigging wire, anchor line... transducers for speed, depth. parts for AWI, bulbs, water pressure pumps, bilge pump, dink and OB stuff, sail repair stuff.. and so on. When I use a spare, I replace it. This takes up space and needs to be organized.

Comfort underway and at anchor is important. You want a comfy sea berth for port and stbd tacks. lots of hand holds. decent head room, a cockpit you can lay down in with cushions not just hard surfaces, instruments visible from the whole cockpit, way to stow dink for passage, control lines led aft to cockpit. a dry (from sea spray and even rain) cockpit, a deck you can work and more about safely.

you get the idea... basic stuff. ;-)


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

S, as usual, raises the important salient points. He gives a thoughtful response. But there are multiple ways to skin the cat. Will present the other side of the coin.
We have both fresh and salty water foot pumps at the galley. We have both the choice of fresh or salt supply to the heads, wash down and cockpit shower. We have 200g of water. We never put any tanks on the rails except 1g of diesel to top up the racors and 1g of gas as a reserve for the dinghy engine tank.
Why?
Getting diesel from deck tanks into your below deck tanks is very difficult while on passage. Have seen my share bent stantions , have them get loose and cause deck spills. Ruins trim and puts a lot of weight up high. Enough to change AVS when multiple containers are lashed to a board. Rather you pick a boat designed for voyaging with adequate tankage.
Salt water is much more corrosive than fresh. Minerals precipitate in your hosing. Your fittings and fixtures foul and corrode. Replacing or cleaning out your sanitation hoses or changing duck valves is not a fun day. Sea life growth stinks. Especially when it dies and rots. RO water has no minerals in it to speak of. Our RO water comes out at less than 160ppm. Whatever is on the inside of the hoses leaches off if you flush enough so nothing but RO water is sitting inside the run. In the past when using salt head maintenance was a constant chore. Now it’s annual or longer to replace worn out duck valves or impellers. Finally the head have no smell. Downside is you need to include adequate minerals in your diet. You should avoid metal fittings in your run and use plastic. RO water can leach metal as well I’ve been told but have yet to see evidence of this in my experience.
Mark may feel different about this but in tropics fungus and minor skin infections are a potential issue. Daily fresh water showers does much to prevent this concern. Beyond sex being more fun with clean bodies, the easiest and fastest way to warm up is a hot shower and the contrapositive is true as well. Dramatically improves your disposition. Dishes, your hair and you get cleaner more easily with hot water. Having on demand hot water improves comfort.
We don’t eat any processed food if possible. The exception is breakfast bars as snacks while sailing or on night time watches. There’s a huge variation in what’s available at any given time in groceries throughout the Caribbean. So you stock up and freeze stuff frequently. Similarly baguettes go stale as you dinghy back home. Bake goods last longer wrapped in paper in a frig at 38F or frozen. Having a frig and freezer means you’re not eating starchy stuff (rice, spaghetti etc.), stuff out of cans but eating fresh food. We eat a lot of fresh fruit and veggies. They need to be washed in fresh water before consumption. Solar and wind are sufficient to run both Frigoboats with extra left over. We go weeks with no engine nor generator time.
Generators means independence from concern about windless cloudy or rainy days. Gen goes on. Everything gets charged including the tools. AC and electric element in the hot water goes on. The watermaker and vacuum goes on. We try to run the generator at least once a month for it’s health. But have had occasion when it was a blessing to have it.
In short either you’re comfortable and happy or existing and dealing with work arounds. I spec’d with a belt and suspenders attitude. If anything breaks I have a fallback in place. Foot pumps and pressure pumps. 3 ways to steer. 4 ways to navigate. 4 ways to make electricity and so forth. Think that’s a good attitude. You make one past. Don’t torture yourself.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> S, as usual, raises the important salient points. He gives a thoughtful response. But there are multiple ways to skin the cat. Will present the other side of the coin.
> We have both fresh and salty water foot pumps at the galley. We have both the choice of fresh or salt supply to the heads, wash down and cockpit shower. We have 200g of water. We never put any tanks on the rails except 1g of diesel to top up the racors and 1g of gas as a reserve for the dinghy engine tank.
> Why?
> Getting diesel from deck tanks into your below deck tanks is very difficult while on passage. Have seen my share bent stantions , have them get loose and cause deck spills. Ruins trim and puts a lot of weight up high. Enough to change AVS when multiple containers are lashed to a board. Rather you pick a boat designed for voyaging with adequate tankage.
> ...


Out as usual presents well reasoned strategies. Great wisdom in his posts! I especially like the use of more fresh water than salt. We do because where we sail we can top off our small tanks are not ever without water. I wouldn't say we waste it... but we don't cut back on showers and so forth. Getting water means a 5 - 10 min motor (one way) trip to a fuel dock. While we don't use a lot of fuel... we do need gas regularly. There is a boat way to do dishes... perfectly logical and saves water. Foot pumps in the galley is an excellent idea and we use the fresh water one frequently.

Daily use of the motor is part of our approach basically because we don't park and stay put for long periods. I shun gensets because of the noise and we're cool with using the diesel to do what many use a genset for.

I would also recommend a large a house bank as you can find space for and maintenance free batts. They will last longer because they are not constantly deep cycyled.... but only mildly (percentage wise) drawn down... and with constant trickle charge from a small solar array. Mine is 30 years old and going strong!

We're off the grid but close enough to it to avail ourselves of stuff... fresh food. For passage we get pre cooked meals freeze them fill up the box with them and eat our way down. Food strategy is driven by where and how you sail.

As I did one all motor passage from the Caribe to LIS one spring summer... I clearly needed to up the range with jerry jugs lashed on deck. I can add fuel quite easily and safely from the cockpit. Moving the 5 gallon jugs is the main hassle. But I am not doing this on a heel boat. If you are carrying sail... turn down wind and flatten the boat so you have a more stable platform to work. It only take a few minutes.

Finally use jack lines and clip on both in the cockpit and on deck when you are offshore at minimum. You really want to limit time out of the cockpit.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

S is spot on for his program.

My boat handling skills suck. Two weeks ago had to back into the slipway for a short haul. 25kts smack on port beam with gusts to thirty. Bow thruster worthless. Commercial craft going to their berths as we where the last haul of the day. Took me three trials but YEA didn’t touch anything. So hate going in for anything. Be it fuel, water or storage. Rather be able to wait for a nice spot and good conditions.

Most cruising boats don’t have deck fills near the cockpit. Usually they’re amidships. It’s pretty common to have a decent sea running but lousy wind so even with a funnel filling tanks can be interesting. Jerrycans are usually lashed to a board secured to the stantions. Stantions are not built to take the force of a boarding sea smashing into a 6-8’ of tank frontage. So they bend or break or base pulls out giving you a nasty leak which is real hard to fix. 

Our jack lines are ALWAYS rigged. We ALWAYS have our harnesses. Typical conditions are 15-20 g25 with 2-3 meters. Higher in compression zones. People talk about pfd. It’s the harness that counts. You need it to be able to use both hands and stay on the boat. SAR only counts in very limited circumstances. Think jacklines and harnesses are always important. Think there are many coastal situations where conditions justify their routine use. SF, windwards, Atlantic coast of France and Portugal etc. 

Too many boats need to stop in Bermuda. Waste time. Lose crew. Piss away money. Leave. Get there.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Taking on fuel, water, supplies and so is usually done at a fuel dock you come along side. Coming along side and getting off is a very very basic and important skill you need to nail early on. Learn how your boat stops with the engine... how the prop moves the stern and so on.

Unless it is quite windy I can turn the boat around in a very small space. Winds will make this much much harder add current and it a major challenge. Of course if you need to maneuver into a tight slip... you need these boat handling skills. Practice in light winds... in slack current and then with wind and current. Sometimes you may have to anchor off and wait more benign conditions.

Coming along and getting off you should be able to do with winds from any direction. There are simple ways to get your bow out by reversing with only a stern line which should be doubled back and tied off to a stern cleat you can reach from the helm. Stop forward motion with a line from the mid ship cleat. Once you got that you can take the bow and stern lines and finish the tie off.

You will most certainly be coming along side many many times in your travels. You may not be pulling into a slip or doing a med moor. 

First nail your anchoring technique... and then coming along side / getting off.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

AND, AND, AND read ...

Voyaging on a small income...Anne Hill

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B603S16/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Really a great read, as much philosophy about simple life and true values but also lots of great ideas for living small and simple.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

PopeyeRideau said:


> I've been sailing monohulls for decades.


I don't run permanent jack lines sailing coastal Florida, but what harm could it do 

I find sailing coastal Florida in the winter reasonably similar to sailing Lake Ontario in the summer. I would guess you could mostly keep doing what you have been doing, but be aware potable water is harder to find.

A couple of those big soft sided water bladders might help


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Don't confuse a "hassle" item/activity you would like to get rid of as being a "need", as those are "wants". Boats are normally full of stuff that fills the owners "wants" that aren't really close to be a "need"


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

Arcb said:


> I don't run permanent jack lines sailing coastal Florida, but what harm could it do
> 
> I find sailing coastal Florida in the winter reasonably similar to sailing Lake Ontario in the summer. I would guess you could mostly keep doing what you have been doing, but be aware potable water is harder to find.
> 
> A couple of those big soft sided water bladders might help


This is what has prompted me to put my Canadian boat on the market and buy one in Florida. Instead of sailing to Kingston or Montreal, I'll be able to sail to Havana or Georgetown.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Don L said:


> Don't confuse a "hassle" item/activity you would like to get rid of as being a "need", as those are "wants". Boats are normally full of stuff that fills the owners "wants" that aren't really close to be a "need"


Exactly. A lot of what people say are _needs_ are really just _wants_. What one really needs is much less than what most people fill their boats with.

Not that it's wrong, or one shouldn't fulfill _wants_ as well as _needs_, but often these two get conflated, especially as affluence rises.



PopeyeRideau said:


> This is what has prompted me to put my Canadian boat on the market and buy one in Florida. Instead of sailing to Kingston or Montreal, I'll be able to sail to Havana or Georgetown.


I missed what boat you currently have, and cruise, up here on the Great Lakes. What is it? Why can't you sail it down to Florida?


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## PopeyeRideau (Jun 28, 2011)

MikeOReilly said:


> Exactly. A lot of what people say are _needs_ are really just _wants_. What one really needs is much less than what most people fill their boats with.
> 
> Not that it's wrong, or one shouldn't fulfill _wants_ as well as _needs_, but often these two get conflated, especially as affluence rises.
> 
> I missed what boat you currently have, and cruise, up here on the Great Lakes. What is it? Why can't you sail it down to Florida?


I have a Ranger 33, which I like, but which I find cramped for longer than a week or so. No storage. Also, it would take me six weeks or so to take it down the Hudson, then down the ICW. Seems to make more sense to sell it and buy a boat that is already in Florida.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

PopeyeRideau said:


> I have a Ranger 33, which I like, but which I find cramped for longer than a week or so. No storage. Also, it would take me six weeks or so to take it down the Hudson, then down the ICW. Seems to make more sense to sell it and buy a boat that is already in Florida.


I don't know this boat at all. My previous boat was also 33-feet long (a Grampian 34). It had tons of storage space. It was less than ideal in a lot of ways, but in others was superior to the boat I currently have. The point being, all boats are a compromise; kinda gets back to what you _need_ vs what you _want_.

Of course, finding a boat that better suits your needs is a good reason to find a different boat, and I understand Florida is a good place to find one. But so are the Great Lakes.

I'm told the journey down the ICW and the canals can be quite enjoyable. I've not done it, but I can certainly see how it would be fun to do.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Elsewhere today we (once again) held forth on why DISPLACEMENT is a better measure of boat size than LOD/LOA. 

Ranger 33 LOA 33.17’ DISPLACEMENT 10,500#
Grampian LOD 33.58’ DISPLACEMENT 12,000#

LOA ratio 1.012. Within 2% points
Displacement ratio 1.14. 14% bigger


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## North Channel Sailor (Jan 15, 2017)

I get it. Being on the boat is the same for me. Getting back to basics but still being safe and comfortable. A basic but sound boat also means you aren't paying for someone else's outdated and worn out junk. My nice to have list would be a good sail inventory, adequate ground tackle, manual windlass and a wind vane. Necessities that are expensive to add if not included. Anything else you can find as you see the need but some basics like AIS, Inreach, GPS and some solar are not expensive these days.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

At the top of your list should be seaworthiness. Even dubbing around on the ICW it can get challenging at times and if you ever need/want to venture offshore, it's a whole different ballgame. There are many boats that are just not designed for anything but sitting at a dock. Many are seemingly designed around costly docksitting "amenities." Look at stability ratings, capsize ratios, etc. The foo foo stuff is not very important unless you can get there safely: seaworthy boat, reliable diesel power, radar, chartplotter, sails and gear you can handle.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

About sea handling, sorta.

Well, for the ICW and other close waters, I’d be looking at the impermeability of the hull forward to heavy steel objects: aids to navigation and pilings and such. I’m not the first nor last to wack a bouy at hull speed. But I’m steel and now have a slight new curve and story line. Another guy I saw do it poked a foot long hole abut 4” wide just above the waterline. And elsewhere recently another fellow admitted to doing the same. So I’m betting it’s fairly common. 

But also add the ability to take to the ground. IMHO I don’t want any boat that can’t take an occasional grounding without needing an immediate haul and inspection for keel and hull damage. I know that some folks will defend against this, and it’s fine for guys who are racing in known waters and on passages. But for poking around and cruising slow in thin waters, it’s gonna happen. And hard sometimes. 

Then there was the guy (I heard about) in Annapolis who snagged something with his anchor. Trying to pick the anchor up with his windlass it ripped out of the deck and joined the anchor. Heard from a friend of the boater. 

I don’t think that it is too hard to find, but it will likely be an older, slower, full keeler.

But this may be diverging from the point of the thread. Don’t know what the OP is looking for in advice.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I am of the 'go simple' mindset for a variety of reasons. Minimally I need a comfortable berth, a good reliable stove, plenty of water tankage, a legal head, low amperage running lights and cabin lights, a reliable engine with a large enough alternator and battery bank that I can meet all of my electrical needs in a half hour to an hour of run time per day, a good compass, a nav kit, lead line, binoculars, and good charts. 

But the key words are 'minimally' and 'need'. I would want a good galley sink, lots of storage, enough tools to repair almost every thing on board, good sails and sail handling gear, a chart plotter, knotmeter, wind instrumens, a windvane steering, an autopilot depth sounder, vhf radio, good ventilation, a dinghy or kayaks to get ashore. 

I don't need or want refrigeration or a windlass. As a vegetarian I can get by without refrigeration. It is certainly less comfortable but doable. 

As far as the windlass, I use the winches in the cockpit to grind in the rope portion of the anchor rode. Once the end of the chain is on deck I have a pair of 40 foot lines with a chain hook that put on a winch I to haul up the rest of the chain from the cockpit.

If I lived onboard I would want a good 110 volt electrical system. I might add a diesel heater for winter and a small cheap portable AC unit for summer. I might even add a small cheap refrigerator.

I suppose if I had bigger boat than my current 38 footer I would not be able to get away with keeping it this simple, but that's a large part of why I don't want a bigger boat than I currently own.

As others have said, I also suggest that you read Anne Hill's book.

Jeff


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Jeff
I'm curious about your anchor retrieval. If I am picturing this correctly your anchor line and then chain are being dragged the length of the deck. Am I understanding the procedure?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Interesting choice about your cockpit "windlass". Not sure which 38-footer you own, but my 36'9" boat certainly has room for a manual windlass at the bow.

One "simple" thing I really like about our boat's current setup is our virtual self-sufficiency in electricity. My solar and wind keeps the batteries topped up almost all the time, with no need to run the big diesel or even the backup gas generator. I can sit all summer and never start the engine (and did two seasons ago).

One thing I think is pretty important is a decent galley and good food storage space. If you're going to live frugally then you need a good place to prepare meals. And you need good, accessible space to store food. 

I don't think a fridge is necessary, but it certainly makes life easier. It's not just to maintain some perishables foods, nor only to keep the beer/wine cold (although this is nice ). It helps with leftover, and when you get handed that big cod or extra moose. Without the fridge we'd have to say no to so much free food!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Whats with the avoidance of a windlass? My back loves my windlass. It does take 30 minutes of maintenance time each year, so isn't for slackers.


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## Gerenuk (Jan 2, 2020)

Hot showers for me. Though I can live without it on the boat, it would be miserable for me.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

paulinnanaimo said:


> Jeff
> I'm curious about your anchor retrieval. If I am picturing this correctly your anchor line and then chain are being dragged the length of the deck. Am I understanding the procedure?





Don L said:


> Whats with the avoidance of a windlass? My back loves my windlass. It does take 30 minutes of maintenance time each year, so isn't for slackers.


To put my comments in context, they are are framed mainly at answering my read on the title question of this thread, "what is the least that is needed to go cruising for long periods of time?" Its something that I have considered for a very long time, pretty much since I searched for and bought my current boat a a couple decades ago. At that time I had planned to retire and sail my boat to Europe and spend time exploring the continent using Synergy as a home base. I have spent a lot of time experimenting with her deck plan and equipment and trying to determine what I need to add to the boat and what I don't need aboard. A windlass started out on the original list of 'needs', but did not make the final list of things that I even wanted aboard.

In order to explain, I will start with a little background. To begin, I single-hand a lot, and have adopted systems that are short-hander friendly. My boat is pretty light for a 38 footer, weighing in at around 10,600 lbs. which is only a few hundred pounds more than a 32 foot Pearson Vanguard for example. While I readily acknowledge that my boat definitely has a lot more windage than the Vanguard, in my mind I would never think of adding a windlass to a Vanguard and so would not expect to add one to my boat.

But this decision was also borne out of experimentation as well. When I bought my boat there was a winch on the cabin top located just aft and to port of the mast. I kept that winch in place to use with the anchor, and as a way of testing the need for a windlass. I only used it only a few times in the 16 years that it was on the deck before I removed it when I was painting the decks and elected not to reinstall it.

The reason that I have not needed to use that winch (even though it was sitting right there on the deck and plainly was convenient to use) mostly comes from being pretty old school on how I do things. In winds under about 12-15 knots, I can generally get the boat moving forward by simply pulling on the anchor line, once the boat is moving forward, it does not take much to keep her moving and so its pretty much a hand over hand of a lightly loaded line. In winds between 15 and 20 knots, I can take advantage of the sway of the boat kiting in the wind. Each time that the boat kites, the anchor rode slackens enough to bring in 10-15 feet of line under little to no pressure. So it becomes a simple matter of taking in line when it is not actually under much load and timing the last hard pull of each swing, so it brings the bow head to wind sooner and starts the next swing and line gathering.

I break out the anchor by setting up the rode very tightly when the rode is vertical by sweating up the line as tight as I can and allowing the vertical pull to break the anchor out of the bottom. This does not always happen instantly, so I typically cleat off and use the time to clean off the decks and rode with a bucket on a line and soft bristle scrub brush.

The few times that I needed to use a winch to raise the hook has been in winds that were over 20 knots, and/or I was in a crowded anchorage. One of the first times that I used a winch to bring up the anchor, I chose to run it back to the primary winch in the cockpit. I had decided that I wanted to be near the helm and throttle in case the anchor broke loose suddenly. But I found that the primary winch could bring in a lot more line in a hurry than the smaller deck mounted winch and I was in a better body position to grind in the line when it loaded up.

It does mean dragging the rode (or the line on the chain hook) down the deck to the cockpit. If the rode is clean, I simply grind it in until the chain is at the anchor roller. Then I stop and carefully deploy the chain hook, stow the rope part of the rode so it is free to run if need be, and begin bringing in the chain. I typically only grind the chain back to the shrouds which means that it drags across roughly 12-14 feet of foredeck. The line lead actually holds the chain above the deck, so the part under load is not actually being dragged across the deck.

When the rode is muddy I typically haul in about 12-16 feet (12 feet on deck from the roller to shrouds and 4 feet vertically from the bow roller to the water line) at a time. I pause and the scrub the line and deck and then haul in the next 12-18 feet until its all on board.

I also have had the experience of both motorized and manual windlasses failing at critical times and having to get the hook up some other way.

But obviously my approach is harder work than simply standing on the bow, a toe on a button, manning the hose from the wash down pump with nozzle in hand. (I don't have a wash down pump either.) It may also be harder than simply pumping a handle on a manual windlass. So why do I, as a nearly 70 year man with a questionable back and knees, do this? Because I can and want to. For me, a big part of sailing is the physical and the mental discipline of being able to jiu-jitsu and MacGyver whatever needs to be done.

This applies to more than the windlass. I often will sail onto the anchor or off of the anchor, or into (and less often out of) my slip without running the engine. Last summer I took a new sailor out with me for a sail, and went back into the slip without starting the engine. Afterward he asked, "That is a lot of work, Why the heck would you do that?" In my answer I acknowledged that it required perfect timing, working very quickly, a lot of strength to drag the boat to a halt and spin her and reverse direction using the lines so she is backed stern to in the slip. But to me, it is all a part of a self-imposed ethic of being able to voyage by the wind using the minimum mechanical assists.

From my perspective, it is similar to a story I heard when I was researching my boat. I spoke with a fellow who owned a sistership to my boat. He had owned her in South Africa and had sailed her to Annapolis (and eventually to New England, back through the Caribbean, motored through the Panama Canal, and sailed up to Vancouver mostly single-hand. He left on the first leg from Cape Town South Africa to the Caribbean at the same day that a friend left on a fully crewed 50 foot ketch. He arrived in the Caribbean having used less than the approximately 12 gallons of fuel in the main fuel tank. (He had a bladder and jerry cans that he never touched). The Ketch arrived two weeks later having drained most of its fuel motoring in lighter conditions. Neither approach is inherently better or worse than the other. But for me, I know that I would have preferred the admittedly less comfortable approach that the sistership's captain chose.

I readily admit that it would be easy to argue that I am perhaps endangering myself, my boat, or adjacent boats by not relying on mechanical assists. It easily can be argued that if my boat was larger, or heavier, or harder to get underway, or less maneuverable, I could not do the things that I do with her. It can be easily be argued that if I was not in good physical shape I could not do these things, and that certainly not everyone is so lucky. So I am extremely grateful that I was given the genes, and have been lucky enough to live a life where I have been able to stay in good physical shape (at least for my age), but I also know that I can't do what I could 10 years ago and in years to come won't always be able to do what I can do today. It can be easily argued that being able to do as much as possible without a mechanical assist appeals to me, but probably does not appeal to many people besides me. And because of, or perhaps despite all of the above, anything that I have said should be taken with a grain of salt and only applied as it appeals to each specific reader.

In other words, my responses should be seen in the context of my own, one person's opinion attempting to answer this thread's title question of "What do you actually need on a boat?" For me, that answer is that I need and want less than some other folks need or want. And to me a windlass is just one more thing to buy, maintain and repair. Your mileage may vary and probably will.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> To put my comments in context, they are are framed mainly at answering my read on the title question of this thread, "what is the least that is needed to go cruising for long periods of time?" Its something that I have considered for a very long time, pretty much since I searched for and bought my current boat a a couple decades ago. At that time I planned to retire and sail my boat to Europe and spend time exploring the continent using Synergy as a home base. I have spent a lot of time experimenting with her deck plan and equipment and trying to determine what I need to add to the boat and what I don't need aboard. A windlass started on the original list of needs, but did not make the final list of things that I even wanted aboard.
> 
> In order to explain, I will start with a little background. To begin, I single-hand a lot, and have adopted systems that are short-hander friendly. My boat is pretty light for a 38 footer, weighing in at around 10,600 lbs. which is only a few hundred pounds more than a 32 foot Pearson Vanguard for example. While I readily acknowledge that my boat definitely has a lot more windage than the Vanguard, in my mind I would never think of adding a windlass to a Vanguard and so would not expect to add one to my boat.
> 
> ...


Jeff,

Great explaination of your technique for raising the anchor sans windlass. 
For those reading it, it could serve as their plan B if the windlass failed.

You are very humble about your sailing ability and genes. I have seen first hand how technically well you handle Synergy. We all could take some first hand lessons with you on our own boats.

Just a note: I have a mechanical windlass which has NEVER failed in any way in 28 years of use. I like it's simplicity. I usually sail with my wife. It has been very easy to teach her the operating systems and procedures on Haleakula so one I have a partner and two she could handle the boat should I become incapacitated or need more assistance as I age.

I think trying to get her to learn your way of singlehand pulling the anchor might be very intimidating to her. I remember when we practiced sailing into the slip once. Her comment was if it get to that anchor and call for assistance even though we had no issues sailing in.

I applaud your figuring out a great procedure which works for you and your sailing profile. ?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Considering that an electric windlass would blow my available wattage, I have considered a manual windlass. The main problem I see with either manual or powered is that they seem very slow. There are many times when you need to up anchor swiftly in crowded or narrow spots in order to make a quick turn. I cannot imagine waiting for a windlass to slowly wind up the chain. I use a 3/8" all chain rode and have always managed to retrieve the anchor with no problem. I've often said that not being able to retrieve the ground tackle by hand will be my signal to get out of sailing. It's also a good workout in the morning! When single-handed, my usual procedure is to slowly start the boat idling toward where the anchor is set, get her out of gear, run forward, take up slack, repeat as necessary until the anchor breaks free. Once free, it is VERY quick to get it up and tied down. Getting the anchor DOWN is also very quick and I can actually feel when the anchor sets. I have seen many failed attempts at people trying to anchor with electric windlasses because they cannot tell where the heck the anchor is with the thing slowly moving toward the bottom. When you drop it by hand, you can tell immediately, exactly what the anchor is doing, even the type bottom, whether it is laying correctly, etc. A rope rode is even better when it comes to feeling the anchor but I find chain with snubber to be more secure.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

No judgement on my part Jeff, I was just curious. When I was first diagnosed with 'bad bones' I over reacted and in trying to protect my back we tried the winch technique much like you describe. It made a real mess of the deck and so we made a long soft cloth that velcroed to the lip of the anchor locker. This actually worked pretty well, the line and chain slid over the towel. It worked much easier with both of us involved. It wasn't long before I realized my back wasn't made of glass and I went back to hauling the anchor by hand at the bow. 
I respect your desire to sail simply, we do so ourselves.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks Jeff, I have no doubt your technique works well for you. But you have an extraordinary boat, and more importantly, are exceptionally skilled. I am no where near your equal, and my boat is three times the displacement. I know I can haul up my rode/anchor using either the mast winches or the mains, but my manual windlass is much easier, and much faster.



smurphny said:


> Considering that an electric windlass would blow my available wattage, I have considered a manual windlass. The main problem I see with either manual or powered is that they seem very slow. There are many times when you need to up anchor swiftly in crowded or narrow spots in order to make a quick turn. I cannot imagine waiting for a windlass to slowly wind up the chain.


Smurphny, clearly you are a lot stronger than I. There is no way I can manually haul up my all-chain rode/anchor (3/8" with my 55# anchor) faster than I can use my windlass -- at least not anchored at any depth. And in a decade of cruising with my manual windlass, where I anchor out most of the time in various challenging conditions, I have never been in a situation which I could not manage.

I say this, not to say you are wrong in your approach -- not at all. I just offer this as my experience with my manual windlass. And like Chef, I have had exactly zero problems with this windlass. I do almost nothing to maintain it -- literally just throw sea water over it on the rare occasions it needs a cleaning. It is original to my 43-year-old boat and just keeps working.

Oh, and you'll appreciate how anchoring is still very tactile with a manual windlass. It is easy to feel what the anchor and rode is doing, while either setting or retrieving. It's one of the reasons I prefer manuals over electrics.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Im sure its a size thing. Ive pulled up my 60# anchor plus the 20’ of chain when it got to 1:1. That was a lot for an old fat man heart attack survivor to do by himself (windlass never breaks if there are crew around). So from that i can say that windlass ISN’T a need as i did it, but ..........


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

@Jeff_H

This was a brilliant post. Thank you for sharing this. It abundantly clear that you are not only a thoughtful and knowledgeable sailor but a wise one and a considerate one. I honor and respect your approach.

My physical challenges came on rather suddenly... almost like an accident. It hardly matters... but although I was not operating with the same physical strength an senses... I was operating a boat I have owned for 35 years and sailed in all over the place in every imaginable condition. Having the capabilities allowed me to do this... mostly single handed and short handed. I learned my boat very well.

I made a conscious decision to use mechanical assists such as AP and windlass. Shiva came to me new with a plaited nylon rode and a CQR. I anchored for several years manually. I was middle aged and strong. But it was hard work. Shiva is 16,000 without all the junk I have added... and she has high freeboard which makes are restless at anchor. I use a steadying sail to calm her down. Because of the windage hauling the anchor can be a strain. It's not the weight of the tackle but the force of the wind on the hull. Unless the boat is making way... I am pulling the boat to the anchor into the breeze.

My decision was informed by the fact that in most cases I am anchored relatively near other boats and at time it too close and beyond my control. I felt I needed a fast way to retrieve, escape or reset the anchor. And this has happened over the years.

My first ground tackle upgrade was to add a manual windlass. It was OK... but a but slow. If I can't get some way on toward the hook it takes a long time to get the anchor up. I was also concerned about chafe on the rode related to the metal bits at the bow below the deck... a problem in wide yawing.

When I decided to cruise the Caribe I fitted an vertical electric windless and went to all chain. The weight of the chain (catenary) will help making way to the hook. But I still need to be in a fairly narrow anchor to wind the chain in. When the angle is OK I press the button and take out the catenary boat moves with decent speed toward the hook until the wind pushed her bow off. I wait until she aligns again and press the up button making more way to the hook.

I fitted some brushed between the cheeks of the bow roller fitting. It knocks off most of the mud. If I use a hose only clean chain enters the anchor locker. LIS is muddy.

When I get close to the anchor the chain is at a steep angle and comes up very quickly. The boats momentum will usually make the boat pass over the hook and break it out. I can see the chain then begin to come up very fast with no resistance. The wind will push the bow off. If I am close to other boats I do the break out from a cockpit switch. Motor is on and transmission in neutral. I set the controls up so I can steer with the AP dial, operate the engine and raise the windlass from a good perch in the cockpit so I can observe the anchor and the close boats. AP is engaged and course set to the anchor location... so it will steer back a bit in the puffs.

I've got this down pretty well and am comfortable with setting and raising the anchor. It's not a chore. I am not tired as I was without a windlass or even with a manual one. Now with knee and back and balance problems anchoring manually is a non starter. I don't expect my body to get stronger but my anchoring technique is hardly impacted. It's second nature to me, And the electric makes it pretty quick in most cases and to me that's a good thing even a safe thing when among other boats.

Picking up a mooring is actually more difficult for me than anchoring... if there is any wind because I need to get the bow close the the mooring, go forward and pull it up and secure the loop without over running it or being blown off. When I have someone at the bow I can get the bow where it needs to be from the cockpit. Alone can be a problem. But it's not a problem to figure out where to drop the hook... let the boat come slowly to the spot and release the anchor even from the cockpit. When the wind catches the bow one side or the other I can see the stern respond as the anchor sets. Chain is marked and I not the depth and lay out the scope I need. If the boat is yawing back and forth the hook is likely set. If not the boat turns a beam to the wind and is pushed dragging not setting the anchor.

I don't how other boats behave when anchoring. I know how mine does. I know when the anchor is set, when it breaks out and so on.

I have have to replace the electric windlass one time in 30 years. I have had no failures until the gears started sounding funky. So I replaced it in 2010 after 20 years of reliable service.

As I am not going back to a hank on head genny... I am not returning to manual anchoring. I don't think my practice makes me lazy... it makes me smart. But sure... mechanical and electrical things will fail at some point.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I don't need anything .................................. well maybe this lamp


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Don L said:


> I don't need anything .................................. well maybe this lamp


And this ashtray, the remote control, and the chair, and the matches. And that's all I need.

:wink


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

MikeOReilly said:


> Thanks Jeff, I have no doubt your technique works well for you. But you have an extraordinary boat, and more importantly, are exceptionally skilled. I am no where near your equal, and my boat is three times the displacement. I know I can haul up my rode/anchor using either the mast winches or the mains, but my manual windlass is much easier, and much faster.
> 
> Smurphny, clearly you are a lot stronger than I. There is no way I can manually haul up my all-chain rode/anchor (3/8" with my 55# anchor) faster than I can use my windlass -- at least not anchored at any depth. And in a decade of cruising with my manual windlass, where I anchor out most of the time in various challenging conditions, I have never been in a situation which I could not manage.
> 
> ...


I would like to try a manual windlass under real conditions. My only doubt is about the speed on both sides-getting stuck in low gear when I need to get the thing up on deck in a hurry. Can you free-drop your manual windlass and then tension by hand? I guess what I'm asking is : can you disengage to either drop or lift by hand when needed? Don't want to go off point here but I guess choice of anchoring gear falls under the "What do I need" category.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

smurphny said:


> I would like to try a manual windlass under real conditions. My only doubt is about the speed on both sides-getting stuck in low gear when I need to get the thing up on deck in a hurry. Can you free-drop your manual windlass and then tension by hand? I guess what I'm asking is : can you disengage to either drop or lift by hand when needed? Don't want to go off point here but I guess choice of anchoring gear falls under the "What do I need" category.


Yes. No problem with mine (ABI/Plath bronze), and I think the SL Seatiger 555 is the same. Just disengage the clutch from the gypsy and she freewheels. This is how I lower the anchor, except I can feather it with the clutch handle. This allows me to feel how the anchor is setting up.

And you can certainly go fully hands-on if you want to haul up by hand. No problem. I sometimes do this if I really want to sprint, but I can only do it for a short time.

My windlass is not fast by electric standards, but I've never yet been in a situation where the slower speed was a critical difference.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I agree it's likely a weight thing. I lived on and coastally cruised first an 8600 pound 30 footer, then a 24000 pound 35 footer. Almost immediately I regretted selling the nimble 30 footer for the system heavy 35, but I did get several years of enjoyment from the bigger boat before I decided to downsize again.

Any way, if I was one or perhaps 2 people looking to liveaboard and cruise coastally like the OP described, something like my old Grampian 30 would be high on my list, although it would likely be a bit newer and have a deisel engine rather than the atomic 4.

The boat didn't have a windlas of any description and certainly didn't need one either. No autopilot, but she balanced well enough she didn't really need one either. She was light and nimble enough to be sailed in and out of dock when the engine acted up, but she was also big enough to take some weather on the chin. Big enough interior with standing headroom, decent forward cabin, nice salon, private head. Single burner alcohol stove as well as a propane bbq. Roller furling headsail and main (the old crank boom style). Only manual pump fresh water. Hot water came from putting a pot on the stove.

Navigation was simple. The only items aside from the starter running off the 12 volt system were VHF, lights and stereo. Navigation was from a monochrome GPS and paper charts. 

However, this was a few years back and I would do things a bit differently now. I would add solar. I would upgrade VHF to a AIS receive model and navigation would likely be with a tablet instead of paper.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

smurphny said:


> I would like to try a manual windlass under real conditions. My only doubt is about the speed on both sides-getting stuck in low gear when I need to get the thing up on deck in a hurry. Can you free-drop your manual windlass and then tension by hand? I guess what I'm asking is : can you disengage to either drop or lift by hand when needed? Don't want to go off point here but I guess choice of anchoring gear falls under the "What do I need" category.


Yes our manual free fails

As far as uptake, it takes about 1 ft in on each arc.....

Since my wife motors forward slowly or I pull forward the first part of raising the anchor, you can just put the rode down the hawse pipe by hand if you want. I usually do that till I get to the 90 ft of chain I have then it's 90 pumps. Less if you have less chain.

We have SL Hyspeed 550 manual windlass

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...&biw=1194&bih=790&dpr=2#imgrc=0e2QVwHVdGk1BM:






https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=540964

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/product/MUIMVM650H.html

http://www.fujiyachts.net/manuals/S-L Hyspeed Windlass.pdf

You can pull the boat forward with it, but that's not necessary.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

This thread is making simple stuff too complex.

Right what i need on my boat is bread. Tomorrow it may be cheese, or .... rum.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Just pedal your way to winn dixie and back
Solved


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

MikeOReilly said:


> My windlass is not fast by electric standards, but I've never yet been in a situation where the slower speed was a critical difference.


That day may come. It did for me.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

boatpoker said:


> That day may come. It did for me.


It may, but then a lot of things "may" come to pass :wink.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

RegisteredUser said:


> Just pedal your way to winn dixie and back
> Solved


Dangerous, almost got run down a week ago. Why cant the cruising fairy just bring to me, along with some ice cream?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Thank you to those above who were complimentary about my posts, my boat, and sailing abilities. I readily acknowledge that to the extent that there is anything exceptional about my boat, sailing abilities, or personal preferences, should be used to filter the relevance of my comments to anyone else reading my posts. 

These types of discussions provide useful information on a range of topics such as personal preferences of individual members, personal capabilities and limitations, equipage, reliably and utilization methods of equipment, factors used to select a particular boat to buy, and so on.

Jeff


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Regarding Don's desire for ice cream, if you have refrigeration that can produce ice, there are small hand cranked (or motorized) ice cream makers that work very well. I have had hand cranked ice cream that was made with dehydrated fruit and irradiated cream that was as good as or better than store bought ice cream.

Where there is a will, there's way even if it's via rocky road with strawberries thrown. 

Jeff


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Get a soda stream and you can make an ice cream float


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> Regarding Don's desire for ice cream, if you have refrigeration that can produce ice, there are small hand cranked (or motorized) ice cream makers that work very well. I have had hand cranked ice cream that was made with dehydrated fruit and irradiated cream that was as good as or better than store bought ice cream.
> 
> Where there is a will, there's way even if it's via rocky road with strawberries thrown.
> 
> Jeff


We have a large Alder Barbor evaporator on our Super Cold Machine specifically for vertical ice cube tray making. The past two years since I bought one of the Ninja blenders we often plug it in the inverter and make great blended ice fruit drinks after a hot day on the Chessie or even underway with guests. Am looking for a small hand held sorbet/ ice cream maker to increase the variety. Anyone have a recommendation?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

An ice cream maker! On a 40’ sailboat?

Where do you store that? In the panty or in the wine cellar? Where do get enough ice to use it?

Sound like fresh root beer floats on Jeff and Arcb boats.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

:grin 
Kinda ironic that a thread entitled "What do you actually need on a boat?" has now moved onto discussion about ice cream makers. No one _needs_ an ice cream maker -- not on land and certainly not on a boat.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> :grin
> Kinda ironic that a thread entitled "What do you actually need on a boat?" has now moved onto discussion about ice cream makers. No one _needs_ an ice cream maker -- not on land and certainly not on a boat.


Spend a summer in July on the Chesapeake, while not a necessity......why not

Some of the small ones I'm researching are manual and the only think which goes in the evaporator is the ss metal drum. Should fit in my evaporator easily. Only makes a pint at a time, but might be a great alternative to the ice fruit smoothies the ninja makes.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Spend a summer in July on the Chesapeake, while not a necessity......why not...


I'm sure would be great. Heck, I loves me cold beer, and that's not "needed" either.

Just sayin' how funny it is that a thread asking about what one actually needs has evolved into a discussion about ice cream makers. We're definitely into "first world problem" territory :wink.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

For us ice cream is a big deal. Although our freezer makes everything else rock hard it has trouble with ice cream. Ours is a water cooled dual frigiboat set up. Water temperatures are quite warm down here and we like having the compressors shut off as frequently as possible. No issue with the frig set at 38F but unless we let the freezer go up to a setting of 22 to 24F it won’t shut off. 
When the freezer is chock full we can keep ice cream and bring the temp down to even as low as 12F. When it’s more than half empty we get ice cream slush. What’s strange is everything else stays rock hard frozen. My suspicion is ice cream is a complex emulsion and veggies, meat or other stuff freezes at a higher temperature. Even 24 is enough. 
Have gotten partial to nutmeg ice cream. That with hot fudge and whip cream is yummy. Good excuse to leave the boat.
Have been told to add air coolers to the water coolers on the frigoboats. Expensive. So wonder if anyone has done this and is it worthwhile. Ice cream is a want not need.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> For us ice cream is a big deal. Although our freezer makes everything else rock hard it has trouble with ice cream. Ours is a water cooled dual frigiboat set up. Water temperatures are quite warm down here and we like having the compressors shut off as frequently as possible. No issue with the frig set at 38F but unless we let the freezer go up to a setting of 22 to 24F it won't shut off.
> When the freezer is chock full we can keep ice cream and bring the temp down to even as low as 12F. When it's more than half empty we get ice cream slush. What's strange is everything else stays rock hard frozen. My suspicion is ice cream is a complex emulsion and veggies, meat or other stuff freezes at a higher temperature. Even 24 is enough.
> Have gotten partial to nutmeg ice cream. That with hot fudge and whip cream is yummy. Good excuse to leave the boat.
> Have been told to add air coolers to the water coolers on the frigoboats. Expensive. So wonder if anyone has done this and is it worthwhile. Ice cream is a want not need.


Ice cream storage needs zero degrees. Tempered for serving at 10-15 degrees.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> I'm sure would be great. Heck, I loves me cold beer, and that's not "needed" either.
> 
> Just sayin' how funny it is that a thread asking about what one actually needs has evolved into a discussion about ice cream makers. We're definitely into "first world problem" territory :wink.


As some said in u tube thread ...2017 sailor


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## Jim_W (Jul 27, 2014)

I usually sail to Oxford for ice cream


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jim_W said:


> I usually sail to Oxford for ice cream


Me too great ice cream parlour there


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## Gerenuk (Jan 2, 2020)

> Whats with the avoidance of a windlass? My back loves my windlass. It does take 30 minutes of maintenance time each year, so isn't for slackers.


It really isn't for slackers indeed.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

hales57357 said:


> There are few aspects about living on a boat:
> 
> Cost of living
> Living simply
> ...


I like it because it forces a certainly frugality. Small space, less places to fill with unnecessary junk. Less in general.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

MikeOReilly said:


> I like it because it forces a certainly frugality. Small space, less places to fill with unnecessary junk. Less in general.


Less to FIX!!!

I've quite enough already thank you. :crying


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

hpeer said:


> Less to FIX!!!
> 
> I've quite enough already thank you. :crying


You have got to be kidding! Ive lived on my boat now 41 months and there are a lot more boat fixing than there ever was house fixing.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Don L said:


> You have got to be kidding! Ive lived on my boat now 41 months and there are a lot more boat fixing than there ever was house fixing.


I think this is exactly Hpeer's point (although he can speak for himself, of course). The simpler the boat, the less to fix. Maybe you need a simpler boat .

Or perhaps more accurately, it depends on which house, and which boat.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MikeOReilly said:


> I think this is exactly Hpeer's point (although he can speak for himself, of course). The simpler the boat, the less to fix. Maybe you need a simpler boat .
> 
> Or perhaps more accurately, it depends on which house, and which boat.


Been down the "what makes a boat simple" rabbit hole. It doesn't exist except in the mind of posters.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Don,

“Simple” maybe “No.”. 

But simpler? Sure.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have to agree that simpler is often in the mind of the beholder, but I also have to agree that within reason the simpler the boat, the easier it is maintain. 

In my mind, there is always a balancing act between reducing maintenance through reducing the size of the boat and the amount and complexity of equipment, vs. diminishing the ease of operations and comfort of the boat. I tend towards the simpler and more spartan since I am not a big fan of maintenance in large part because I do a lot of it myself and tend to be too strapped for cash to pay others to do it for me. I lean towards expending more physical effort to sail, and using mechanical devices to increase mechanical advantage, over motorized and electronic devices, all of which seem to have ridiculously short lives. I purposely bought a boat with a displacement in a range that I knew that I could physically manhandle. I have kept the gear pretty simple as in no refrigeration, no windlass, No dodger, bimini or other deck canvas, no inverter, computer or TV, and so on. 
That is not to say that my boat's sail shaping gear is all that simple. More or less Synergy is rigged as single-handed race boat and as a short-handed cruising boat. That means there are some powerful winches and the deck gear is never simple. 

In the end, I often say that we all make boat decisions based on what we cherish and fear most. In my case I cherish most maximizing my time spent sailing vs maintenance, performance across a broad range of conditions, seaworthiness, and ease of handling, and fear most boats with poor sailing capabilities, hard boats to sail, and unreliable boats more than anything else. Your mileage may vary......

Jeff


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Ever notice the more one uses their boat, the less repair it needs? 

As far as general maintenance compared to a house, I suppose it depends on the level of care one applies to their boat or house. I certainly know houses that aren’t well maintained and perhaps that’s because it’s less life threatening. Houses don’t sink. 

In the end, I’d much rather work on my boat than on my house. I fix something aboard and can’t wait to use it. Replace the furnace or roof at home and it does nothing for me.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> ...In the end, I often say that *we all make boat decisions based on what we cherish and fear most*.


That's a beautiful summation line Jeff. I'm going to try and remember it. Thanks


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

> Ever notice the more one uses their boat, the less repair it needs?


Yes it is because there are millions of short/little repairs over a longer period of time, rather than lots of major repairs from sitting and neglect.

I am heartened to hear Jeff describe his way of sailing, anchoring and addressing things. I attempt to use my boat as a single-handers boat frequently. I too loathe complex systems and faulty equipment. I'm still getting used to "Freedom," but my intentions are to learn to sail her into, out of the slip and to know how to deal with her when she becomes fickle and will not start motor (with hopes she'll not ever have that issue).

I also dug out her emergency tiller and spent some time seeing how she sets up and how hard she is to steer that way. Its manageable but one should know what they are up against. We had to use the e-tiller twice on Dad's US27 on Barnegat, both times we improved our response to diagnosis and implementation. In fact our second time using the e-tiller we barely luffed up from the time the steering cable jumped the sheave till the tiller was in place and boat was under control (good thing too because we were on the edge of the channel).

I wondered about dealing with the anchor solo on "Freedom," so I am going to have to play with some options. She has a manual windlass on her, and I'll have to see what will work best for me.

My skills are not honed like Jeff's but I endeavor to get there in a measured fashion.

I've only owned keelboats 22-26 feet of my own, but I've not hesitated to sail any of them into/out of their slip or anchor.

I believe it is our requirement as boaters that we attempt to prepare ourselves for any possible hardship, in as best a manner we can, obviously within reasonable margins of safety.

Ironic that nobody spent a lot of time on safety gear, except jacklines.
Safety harness, jacklines, requisite PFDs...
A way to heat things up
A way to get or carry drinkables
A way to communicate VHF or SSB, EPIRB
Charts? (navigation is good, but physical charts are sometimes a great backup to have, or at least have multiple electronic backups)
Some kind of dink, inflatable, kayak - way ashore
For me it requires a swim/boarding ladder. Nothing worse than trying to get aboard a boat bouncing in a chop (and a way to retrieve that boarding ladder from the water). 
Obviously coming off the boat is task number 1, especially under way, but when at anchor, or anchoring, or adjusting anchor its almost MORE likely you'll have issue, and if you are solo it can be a game changer if you cannot get back aboard. A swim/boarding ladder is safety equipment to me.

Most of this is moot to me, I'm just on a lake, I can flag down the nearest bass fisherman. It would still stink going for a swim in Jan.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

I have gone from a very simple boat with few systems, to a bigger, more well appointed boat with a lot more systems. I like having the refrigeration, heating system and full suite of electronics. I am looking forward to modifying and upgrading the systems on Azura to suit our cruising needs as we approach retirement. I am a mechanical tradesman so I enjoy fixing things, but we did buy a newer boat in good shape so there is very little to repair so far. When we are not away on the boat it is my man-cave, and I like to spend time tinkering and getting to know her. At this point there isn't much to do, so I end up hanging out listening to music and drinking rum! Once we are retired and the boat ages I expect there will be plenty of little projects to keep me out of trouble.

Having said all that, I am glad we were able to get a newer boat. The idea of getting an older boat with a lot of systems that may or may not have been maintained properly is a little more daunting.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm boating!

I've brought my cockpit table home to re varnish it.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

It's gusting to 35 knots outside my window... great day for boating! ;-)


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

SHNOOL said:


> Safety harness, jacklines, requisite PFDs...
> A way to heat things up
> A way to get or carry drinkables
> A way to communicate VHF or SSB, EPIRB
> ...


You just summed up my boat. After 9 years, I've added virtually nothing to this list that I didn't immediately return.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

You need:

Dark rum
Ginger beer
Limes
Ice


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Weaned myself off beer many moons ago
Once you douse rum with lime/lemon or other the preceived grade..color, matters naught
No diff between $ and $$$
My experience...


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Fyi - ginger beer isn’t really beer

But if you put the ingredients together you get something


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

RegisteredUser said:


> Weaned myself off beer many moons ago
> 
> Once you douse rum with lime/lemon or other the preceived grade..color, matters naught
> 
> ...


I like a nice cold rum cocktail in summer, but I also carry a nice bottle of sipping rum on board, and enjoy it neat, or with a splash of water.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## Capt Mark (Feb 4, 2020)

Money


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

SchockT said:


> I like a nice cold rum cocktail in summer, but I also carry a nice bottle of sipping rum on board, and enjoy it neat, or with a splash of water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


We came across a rum distillery in Brunswick, GA that makes a fantastic sipping rum from their own plantation-grown sugarcane. Prices definitely make it into a rum that you sip, in small quantitiies, on special occasions.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

If you're keeping the boat in Florida and simple is ok then a trailerable boat may be worth considering. Lower cost storage less hurricane risk. One thing that adds up the equipment is safety gear. U.S. Sailing has standards for different levels of sail e.g. close in shore, off shore etc. When I rebuilt my boat this was a major item, far bigger than I had expected.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Don L said:


> Fyi - ginger beer isn't really beer
> 
> But if you put the ingredients together you get something


You have never experienced Crabbies Ginger Beer

"Crabbies on ice, it's nice."

Heaven an on Earth!!!!! :grin

It's a very old traditional British beer.

https://www.crabbiesgingerbeer.com/en/


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

Great thread, chock full of information. This has really given me some "food for thought" as my lady and I pursue our next vessel.


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## Interlude (Jun 16, 2016)

We are so not near as experienced as many on this forum and our tastes run to the"less is more" side of things but as you can see by our signature we have a 31 foot boat and given her pedigree came with the basics in good order. Other than a few upgrades/replacement projects we sail her as is. I can say with a lot of conviction that the most important item you should have on your boat is YOU! The big thing is just do it. The more there is YOU aboard the more you will know what else is necessary or not necessary. Have fun!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

hpeer said:


> You have never experienced Crabbies Ginger Beer
> 
> "Crabbies on ice, it's nice."
> 
> ...


ice? You have ice?

What life of luxury


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Not luxury, necessity! 

Actually, come to think of it, I haven’t seen any Crabbies here in Antigua. I must not be looking hard enough.


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## Interlude (Jun 16, 2016)

Just need to cruise in Alaska. Plenty of ice!


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## Dolby (Nov 10, 2009)

MikeOReilly said:


> Completely agree with Mark's wise words. Get a good, solid boat with all the basics, and then go out for a while and discover what you want and need. Ten cruisers or forum members will give you twelve different opinions on what you need. The best thing to do is go find out for yourself.
> 
> Completely agree about the windlass for anything bigger than say a 32-footer. My previous 34-footer had no windlass, but I had a much younger back in those years. I appreciate my manual windlass.
> 
> ...


This is genius!!! Pure genius, I always hated the bags but never found another solution....6000miles cruising with a bag, and now you! Thanks!


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## merryweather (Jul 30, 2008)

MikeOReilly said:


> My boat is on the more simple side of life. But it is still very comfortable and easy to live on for long periods.


No Rafikis listed on Yachtworld. As an owner of a Rafiki, do you know a good site where used Rafiki's are primarily listed?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I'll weight in on this thread with no correct answer to the OP.

What we need on a boat is a decision informed by many inputs and those inputs may change over time as circumstances change. Expense is a key consideration. More gear, means more complexity and that means more maintenance and expenses and that's time you're not sailing or kicking back.

First and foremost is how/where you sail. A day sailor or a club racers that is used for several hrs and is not used as a "home" has very different needs from a weekender cruiser one lives aboard.... and again for a passage making long distance cruiser. There are no hard lines and many boats can meet multiple needs but not optimized for all of them.

If you cruise you'll likely need decent ground tackle. Windless is key and electric is easiest to use. Size of boat will inform this decision.... as well as your age & strength.

If you are single or short handling the boat this too will inform the decision as to what size, rig and sail plan.

A fair amount of boats are equipped with bunks so they can be slept over night on. If you intend to spend evenings and time on board not sailing... issues of comfort for living inform your decisions.

For example some are fine with a cooler and bring ice to keep food and drinks cold. Others want to step up to refrigeration... and even a freezer if they are living aboard. Lots of options for keeping things cold.

Heat can be another need largely related to where and when you sail and are aboard.

Then need for comfort will drive decisions as well... interior and cockpit size, accommodations, stowage. Showering is a normal need. There are simple inexpensive and more complex solutions.

Cooking likewise can mean you can prepare any sort of meal or eat simple like ramen and sandwiches.

A tricked out comfortable boat which has everything is working order is easier to use/sail than the simple one without all the upgrades.

Bigger the boat, the larger the forces sailing... the more to maintain and clean... and so on. It's also a faster boat (LWL) and gets you there sooner. But all gear is more spendy and berthing/mooring will be as well... and the engine will consume more fuel. Finally how many are typically using the boat? More people need more space.

++++

I choose:
Mid 30s OAL
SAD ratio low 20s
full galley
separate nav desk
large comfy cockpit
good head room
shower
pressure water
water heater

robust ground tackle w/ electric windlass
roller furling head sail, full batten main w/ Dutchmen (milwaukee w/ winch bit to raise main)
larger winches added secondaries and one at mast.
line stoppers all control lines led to cockpit

I added because I "needed":
forced air heat
engine drive refer/frzr
auto pilot (below decks)
MFD w/ radar, AIS and radios VHF, SSB
larger batt bank
high output alternator
solar for trickle charging
demountable crane for lift OB
cockpit cushions
LED lamping

I sailed to and from Caribe and lived aboard for 4 yrs
Cruise LIS to ME, spend week ends aboad on mooring.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Dolby said:


> This is genius!!! Pure genius, I always hated the bags but never found another solution....6000miles cruising with a bag, and now you! Thanks!


Glad to help Dolby. I too used those bags for many years, and they do work. But this is leaps and bounds better. Only downside is it is a rigid container, so doesn't store as easily. But I love how you can just set it up and pressurize it anywhere. And it seems to heat up, and retain its warmth, better.



merryweather said:


> No Rafikis listed on Yachtworld. As an owner of a Rafiki, do you know a good site where used Rafiki's are primarily listed?


Hi Merry, they only made about 50 of these boats, so they are fairly rare. But they do come up occasionally. I do know they are more common on the North American west coast, so you might want to focus your search over there.


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