# Tayana 37: Coamings cut off - is this repairable?



## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

Looked at a Tayana 37 today. The current owner, in an attempt to fix a leak that according to him most Tayana's suffer from, cut off both cockpit coamings flush with the deck. This removed the mounting surface for the main whinches.
I wonder if this is repairable (to original aesthetics and strength) such that one would be able to rely on the winches staying in place in a blow.

Any suggestions and ideas on how to do such a repair from the astute membership will be appreciated.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh My Gawd!

Well this is I guess how it should look









Yes it can be restored. Question is.. the teak may cost more then the owner is "paying" you to take the boat of their hands. What where they thinking? Is all I can ask! What a mess! How badly do you want this boat? Did they save the boards and the glass they cut without thinking?

My guess; they were thinking they hated the cockpit so small and wanted it less confining.


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## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

On the positive side - this is the kind of boat I dream of, the price is pretty low (I think he understands the mess and subsequently dropped his price pretty low) and the boat is on the same lake I sail in.

The bad - he didnt keep the cut-off pieces - it sounds that it was cut into pieces to get it off - including the teak 

It was not that he wanted a bigger cockpit. Apperently Tayanas have a "standard" leak - water get into the coaming, into the core of the deck and then run into the boat interior where it drips out on the freezer lid.

I believe the owner really believed the only way to address the issue was through major surgery...


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Unless you are really into learning how to do this job, and develope the experiencxe as you go, get a good estimate on what it would take. My guess...to much. You may want to see what else he "fixed"'


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

Jesus H. Christ.... WTF was he thinking.... Thats like doing a Hysterectomy to cure a tooth ache. If you can fix it great, if a boat yard does the repair (reconstruct) your probably looking a several thousand dollars.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Easy repair. No point in using teak for the sides as it will be a paint finish. Teak for the top would be about 200 250 US$ per side. 

I think I would through bolt a couple of blocks to transfer the winch loads below but it would most likely be overkill. 

Might be good to talk to the designer. 

Paging Bob Perry.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Looking on the bright side, he cut them off neatly.  It is repairable. It might be worth buying an hour of Mr. Perry's time to get an idea of how best to repair this.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Some people shouldn't be allowed to buy tools. Seriously.


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## harmonic (Sep 10, 2013)

Not a hard fix just need a few carpentry and fibreglassing skills.Should be able to do it yourself for under a grand.Librarys a great place to start.


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## sailvayu (Feb 3, 2013)

Heres a thought, fabricate the replacements out of aluminum and then bolt them onto the deck. this would give the strength to hold the winches.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Definitely fixable, but WTF was he thinking?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I was thinking foam blocks shaped to be like the original coamings then glassed over. Yes you will need a pedestal for winch mounting. WTF is with the plywood????


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Looks like a good place to try C-flex or other type of pre made FG materials. 

A boxed in space can't breath, wood would rot.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I think this post should be re-named, 'WTF'. That is one of the stranger things I have seen done to a boat. Like others said, I would be really worried about other strange DIY projects on board.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Make a foam mould and make them separately and then glass them in place.

On another note: A Tayana 37 on a LAKE? 

There's more than one WTF were they thinking on this thread.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

The aluminium fabrication sounds like a good solution.Solves leaks, winch mounting and storage. A teak cap could make it look like it belongs. I'd build one out of light plywood for test look.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

It is fiberglass, everything is repairable.

I wonder how much water has been wicked into all of that exposed core. It could be a much bigger project than you expect.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

I hope to hell Bob Perry never sees this thread, it would most certainly break his heart.

The cockpit coaming adds significant 'stiffness' to the 'fanny area' and cockpit of a Ty37; plus that coaming prevents the cockpit from being flooded by a boarding/breaking, etc. windward (high) side waves. That this 'removal' now leaves a 90° 'notch' (significant structural stress riser) at the interface of the coach roof/cabin and cockpit area surely weakens the design. 
Sure its fixable but so to is walking away or running away and looking around for a boat that wasnt re-designed with a chain saw.

If youre 'really' interested in this boat (and the typical Ty37 warts and pimples are not present - severely rotted chainplate knees, leaking stanchion (teak pedestal) bases which can cause considerable interior degradation to sole/bulkheads, etc. etc. etc. then Id suggest that you hire Bob Perry on a consulting (fee) basis for any such 'restoration'. Additionally, since the molds for the Ty37 are still located at the Tayana yards Id make the suggestion of having Bob Perry negotiate with Tayana for a 'partial' layup of 'just' the coaming area PLUS a goodly amount of adjacent area that can be 12:1 tapered to correctly structurally re-join with the remnants still there .... this would return the strength/structural considerations .... and you wouldnt risk doing a 'slop-job' that would prevent any 'resale' later on if desired. Learning how become a gelcoat 'artist' in such a restoration would be a big plus to keep the boat 'cherry'. I know of one or two boats of this 'family' that have been significantly modified (raised salon, etc. etc.) with Bob Perry being the 'guide' and they turned out even better than OEM. 
For myself to do such a job, Id be pretty damn sure that the 'rest of the boat' was close to near 'cherry shape' or somewhat 'restorable' before making such a commitment.

So, in summary, this boat is now 13 steps below a 'beater' and is going to consume a LOT of time restoring to prime condition at the cockpit area. There are still plenty of 'prime shape' and well maintained Ty37s still available - and which usually very VERY quickly are sold 'direct' from previous owners through the Tayana Owners Group (A google group), 'rarely' through brokerage. A LOT of 'prospective' Tayana owners lurk on the TOG group ... and usually instantly 'snap up' all the 'good ones' just as soon as they become available. 
Why buy an obvious and possibly expensive 'money pit', when there are plenty of 'good ones' around?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Im confused by some of the responses, while this looks catastrophic, thats clean cut surgery...

sometimes glass and wood combos are beyond repair...its not like he cut down the cockpit sideways or something

the aluminum mounts are a good idea...buy you also have some think outside the box options here...

a redesign of the coamings...bigger stronger coamings...smaller, etc...

glass work and ply if you want to stay simple, I would not go teak just for the cost concerns...

maybe its me but if your familiar with this kind of work this can be fixed for sure...

cheers


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## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

> The cockpit coaming adds significant 'stiffness' to the 'fanny area' and cockpit of a Ty37; plus that coaming prevents the cockpit from being flooded by a boarding/breaking, etc. windward (high) side waves. That this 'removal' now leaves a 90° 'notch' (significant structural stress riser) at the interface of the coach roof/cabin and cockpit area surely weakens the design.


RichH - I hate you...for sounding exactly like my conscience....

Thanks all for the replies. I have been toying with the Al/Stainless fabricated build-up idea that would be through-bolted with a backing plate to make sure the winches are secure, with FG over it to get the aesthetics back. I like also the idea of the C-flex with a smaller stainless or Al pedestal for the winches.

However, my main concern was the 90% "notch" Rich mentions - even if I get the winches secure by using a fab structure piece, I still would worry about later cracks at the joint - just imagine anyone of you looking to buy the boat in a few years seeing a crack run the length of the coaming...you'll do what I should - run!

I'm a sucker for these boats, and the fact that it's less than a mile from my marina (yeah, WTF does a Tayana 37 do on a lake...) When you add the price - probably south of 30K - it means serious temptation

Contrary to the photographic evidence, I'm convinced that the current owner is not a chainsaw wielding nutter - he genuinely believed he is starting off right - cut it off neat, build it up properly and his boat was good as rain again...
In the end, I think the scope of what he tackled only became evident after it was too late (by the way, it's not ply wood in the scars - he glassed over the open core with mat and west system to seal it till he got time to do the real job).
He definitely know what the result is - he is listing the boat for ~25K less than what he paid for her in 2010.

Although it breaks my heart, I will have to walk away from this one....*unless Mr Perry chimes in with a comment on the feasibility of getting two coamings from the yard*...


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

deniseO30 said:


> Looks like a good place to try C-flex or other type of pre made FG materials.
> 
> A boxed in space can't breath, wood would rot.


Yes their may be enough volume of air in their to create significant pressure when it gets hot.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Why not take advantage of the internal volume, install an access window on the inside face, and make them into cockpit cubbys? That's what they did on my Bristol. Or were they like that in the first place? Seems strange if they were not.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I see it Rich.
I'm in the WTF camp.

Those coamings were never very comfortable., I'm sure the owner can come up with something more ergonomic.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

bobperry said:


> I see it Rich.
> I'm in the WTF camp.
> 
> Those coamings were never very comfortable., I'm sure the owner can come up with something more ergonomic.


Hi Bob! I said earlier that the OP must of cut them away to "Make more room" It just doesn't make sense they would cut that much of the boat away just for a leak.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Hell, to 'make more room' his thigh bones must have been over 5 ft. long. Now its like sitting on the edge of a full sized ping pong table. Where do you put your back? ;-) 

I guess why Im against this is: to my way of thinking Bob Perry probably put in thousands of erasures on the line drawings so that the 'visual eye' would carry effortlessly from end to end of such a boat and ending to focus on that canoe stern, giving the visual design impression of a much longer boat. Its all a matter of taste, I suppose; but, this to me is like adding a garish metallic pointy-brassiere to the Mona Lisa, or removing a marble column from the Parthenon so one could add a telephone booth. *<:-o


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

deniseO30 said:


> Hi Bob! I said earlier that the OP must of cut them away to "Make more room" It just doesn't make sense they would cut that much of the boat away just for a leak.


Whatever his reasons were, he's still just a madman.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

No. Rich is correct. Again. With 601 Tayana 37's I'm pretty confident that the size of the cockpit is correct for that boat. But hell, I was 28 years old. I did improve my deck and cockpit designs over the years. It was most probably not done to "make more room". Maybe though,,,the guy came out of the NBA?


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I am in the camp that says, any boat has a value... it may be negative. If not, and you want a project, offer what you think it is worth (maybe a lot less than 30k for a hacked up boat on a lake).


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Oh pffftttt on all the naysayers!

Spin it around.

$25K below market gives you a lot of room to make repairs. Only you know if the repairs are within your skill set (remember the last guy *really* overestimated his abilities).

The guy knows he screwed up so you may even get it for a few dollars less -- after a good surveyor determines he didn't get creative with any other modifications. After all no one is knocking down his door for this boat.

So for the sake of argument say you get it for $30K under market value. You have a professional do the work for $5K so you know it's done correctly. Lets say you put another $2,500 into her in additional repairs to make her "right".

You now have a very nice boat, with your desired upgrades for $22,500 under market value -- and a good bar story to tell.

Doesn't sound so bad if you're up for it.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

I suggest making a very careful inspection of the boat (Don Casey wrote an excellent book on inspecting an ageing sailboat) as it looks pretty ropey in general in the pics, and who knows what other "maintenance" has been done, and to what standard. Estimate the costs of a refit/repair, and then double them. Does it still seem a bargain compared to a well-looked-after boat?


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

Hey, look on the bright side: at least it doesn't have teak decks & cockpit 

The coamings were a definite trouble spot for the first 100 or so T37's (mine's hull #91), and I'm in the process of making similar repairs to ours. I didn't hack ours up quite as badly as the boat you're looking at, but it is something that can be repaired if you have the inclination and the know-how. The teak caps are decorative and probably the least of your worries. The fiberglass sub-structure is the most important (and difficult) part of the repair. The hollow coamings were filled with mahogany blocking and plywood to add structure for through-bolting the winches and cleats, and when they leak the wood starts to rot (and you get that annoying leak onto the refer lid and countertop). Also, as in our case the cockpit scuppers can be a source of water leaking into the boat where the coach house meets the deck and the only real way to fix it is to tear in and do it right.




























Our coamings were laid up at the same height as the toe rails, then they glassed on an extension to raise the level an additional 3.5". I cut ours down to the original level, glassed in new scuppers, then built plywood forms to lay up the new fiberglass/epoxy coaming extensions (which I'm currently in the process of installing as I type this post).














































It's been a couple months of hard work every single evening and on weekends, and the wife and I are full time live-aboards. Add to that the fact that I'm doing all the work while my boat floats in our marina slip, and you can only imagine what a pain in the butt this has been. And I'm still not finished. But, we love our Tayana and it had to be done, and it's a worthwhile investment into a piece of cruising history. These boats have their problems, but if the rest of the boat you're looking at is fairly sound, then $30K doesn't seem like a bad price as long as you're handy with power tools. 

-Rich VanDusen
1977 Tayana 37 Hull #91
Ramble On
www.svrambleon.com


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I am amazed that Ta Yang built the coamings that way. They should have been an integral part of the deck "part" right out of the mold. The deck lines were drawn that way. It's a nasty repair job.


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## Rezz (Oct 12, 2012)

So where is this Tayana?


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

bobperry said:


> I am amazed that Ta Yang built the coamings that way. They should have been an integral part of the deck "part" right out of the mold. The deck lines were drawn that way. It's a nasty repair job.


I think Ta Yang changed the deck molds shortly after mine was laid up. I've seen pictures of newer boats (hull #'s in the low 100's) that the owners have cut open the coamings for storage bins. Eventually, the coaming storage bins came installed from the factory. I wanted to cut storage bins into ours but it just wasn't feasible with the plywood/glass sandwich construction half way up the walls. At this point, I just want to be done with this project so I can go sailing again...


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

The value on a boat with that sort of damage would be about $10,000.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Well, that settled that!!


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## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

Rich, It looks like you are the expert at this. Want to take on another one...

Thanks everyone for their input and ideas.

I love the Tayanas, and the price for the boat isactually pretty good considering the condition of the rest of the boat, but work schedule at this time does not allow me to take on this level of project - I decided to walk away.

Not sure if the boat is still available, but it is on Lake Lanier north of Atlanta. If anyone else is interested, PM me and I'll put you in touch with the owner.

Pete


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

afrinus said:


> Rich, It looks like you are the expert at this. Want to take on another one...
> 
> Pete


Hey Pete, not sure if I'm an expert or not, but I'm learning a lot about how these boats were built as I go along through my personal re-fit. 

Honestly, I don't think those coamings are anywhere near a $10K repair as other folks have stated (unless you're a sucker for paying boat yard prices). We've gone through and re-wired, re-plumbed, re-bedded all the hardware, re-moved teak decks, new Corian counter tops in the galley and head, peeled off all the Cetol on the teak trim, etc., and I don't think we're in it for $10K yet. Still need to build a new bowsprit and replace (and relocate to outboard) all the chain plates next year, but I'm doing all the work myself, so my labor is "free" 

If you really want a T37, there's plenty of "better ones" listed on Yachtworld. You may pay a bit more, but that comes with the territory. My wife and I live aboard ours, and we're currently in the process of tuning her up for an extended cruise around the world in about 2 years&#8230; We got her for a good price knowing full-well what we were getting into as far as a "project boat" goes.

Finding the "right boat" for you and how/where you like to sail is a personal choice. You can only learn just so-much from the internet, and, as with opinions and a-holes, there's plenty of boats available to suit your needs.


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

*Dr. Shaffhausen,,,,call for Dr. Emil Shaffhausen.*



bobperry said:


> I am amazed that Ta Yang built the coamings that way. They should have been an integral part of the deck "part" right out of the mold. The deck lines were drawn that way.


Hey Bob, I found a '75 T37 on Yachtworld that was build with the "low coamings" straight out of the mold. Notice how the teak cap is at the same level as the toe rail? I'm wondering what the hull # is, and how many of them they build before Ta Yang started "scabbing on" the raised extension that mine came with ('77 #91), and when did they decide to change the molds to incorporate the raised coamings as a 1-piece unit?


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

This might be too late, but Rich has done the hard work building the forms for the coaming extensions, and the owner of the boat for sale has done the messy job of removing the old rotted ones. If the original poster is still interested perhaps he could get Rich to pop out another set of new coamings from his molds. I am unsure if the fit is correct, but if so a reasonable payment to Rich for time and materials might get the boat fixed with what looks to be a good quailty set of parts in a reasonable amount of time.


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

baboon said:


> This might be too late, but Rich has done the hard work building the forms for the coaming extensions, and the owner of the boat for sale has done the messy job of removing the old rotted ones. If the original poster is still interested perhaps he could get Rich to pop out another set of new coamings from his molds. I am unsure if the fit is correct, but if so a reasonable payment to Rich for time and materials might get the boat fixed with what looks to be a good quailty set of parts in a reasonable amount of time.


Sorry, too late. Those forms were a one-off design based on my own personal dimensions. I've already stripped them down, pulled all the screws, and tossed the plywood in the garbage. In fact (I can't figure it out my self), the starboard coaming ended up being about 3/4" longer than the port side. They both fit my boat, but they're both different.

This was (for us) a totally unexpected project this summer. I ordered a new mainsheet traveler from Garhauer that I planned to install this year and it still sits in my work shop because I'm dealing with *this* big mess. Fiberglass & epoxy&#8230; Ughhhhhhh!!

So goes the joy of old boat ownership...


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

Not to toot my own horn  and sorry for the derail, but I finally managed to get my cockpit nearly back in shape, so it is definitely possible. I hope someone will manage to restore that old Tayana back to it's original cruising glory. It's really a shame to see a boat rotting away in it's slip.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

I was going to ask you on the group. Did you fiberglass over wood, or starboard?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Outstanding job, congrats on your craftsmanship !!!! I especially like the way you enlarged the corner coaming scuppers. New sail locker and propane locker lids, too!!!!


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Nice job Geeker.


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## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

Very nice. Looks very professional.


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## thereefgeek (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks guys. It hasn't been an easy four month project by any means, but I'm learning a lot about glass, epoxy, and fillers 
The locker lids are glass over plywood and poplar. The old teak over ply lids were shot, and we were pulling up the cockpit teak anyway. 
The new scupper tubes were a big improvement, and now we can hose out the cockpit without flooding the galley countertop.
Next big step after paint is Kiwigrip non-skid.

My only major dilemma now this giant cockpit. Should I reinstall the steering pedestal or switch to a tiller?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

The rudder config. - unbalanced barn door pintle hung rudder - will need a tiller arm that will absolutely dominate that cockpit. Such an 'unbalanced' rudder needs the mechanical advantage of wheel steering to help steer, especially for when the boat is up to speed and you need a quick/fast hard-over helm. 
Its much better to be tucked up under a dodger steering with a tiller than being dumped upon while at the wheel position; but, with such a long tiller needed on this boat (IMO), youll be able to steer while sitting in the 'head'. 

FWIW - the Ty37 can be 'helm balanced' perfectly to near dead-fish neutral (all by proper sail 'shaping' and not any change of rig, etc.), and the mechanical advantage of the wheel configuration really isnt needed with the rare exception of 'crash' turns at higher speeds. The only disadvantage (with a well balanced helm) to the wheel steering on a Ty37 is that its a PITA to sit high on the coaming top (to properly watch the all the sails) and be 'pushing away' the top of the wheel - very tiring. Ive many times thought about to 'reverse' the 'turn of the wheel' rotation so it more acts like a proper tiller (properly pulling the top of the wheel towards you when steering from the side the wheel ... instead of bus-driver steering). 

FWIW - the Ty37 will easily go to ~neutral helm pressure by raking the mast 'straight up' and applying hard main halyard tension (to bring the point at which the max. draft occurs to be 'more forward' in the mainsail. Most 'plain vanilla - stock' mainsails for this boat have their max. draft occurring too far aft ... so, if when constructing a new main consider to get the designer to set the point of max. draft to occur 'much' more forward than 'normal' (@ 30% instead of 40%); also too, have the boltrope 'pre-load' set up with less tension (1" of pre-load for every 12ft. of luff length , instead of every 10ft.) -- such will also develop a 'flatter' and longer leech profile/shape in the main which is good for better speed in 'flat' water, etc.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I like to eavesdrop when you guys talk about my boats.

I agree with Rich on this. He's a smart sailor cookie. A tiller would work and I'm a real tiler fan but not on this boat.


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## Tavison (Mar 4, 2016)

Well add a new sucker to this list. I'm getting it surveyed on Friday. A surveyor and some yard workers got it to the point of roughing out the coamings and started to fair one of them. Not made out of molds because there was nothing to mold with I guess. The rear fairs in pretty well, but the front has about an inch gap between it and the cabin. I'm not sure what they planned here. and the front is cutoff straight so it's further where the cabin rounds. I've got coldmold and wooden boat experience so this shouldn't be all that bad. I still haven't heard a definitive answer on how structural this was meant to be. Sounds like Bob intended it to be but the yard didn't do that. 

I'll follow up with some photos that are a more reasonable size for posting. 

By the way, Bob Perry, I used to work at the Shilshole West Marine and we met a number of times. My Seattle boat is a Bruce Roberts. It would be nice to add one of yours to my collection.


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## Tavison (Mar 4, 2016)

Here's some images of what they did.


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