# Winter Covers?



## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Hi all!

I've been busy working and trying to get out sailing before the season comes to an end, so I haven't been able to troll too much.

Anyway, as we're getting into Fall, I'm thinking about winter covers, sadly enough. On our old boat we had a Fairclough cover, and it was great. Now, with the new boat, it's time to figure out what we're going to do.

It's about $1500 to shrink wrap and remove each year.

Fairclough wants $6500 to build a new cover for us, and they charge about $1300 to install, remove and store each year. So, notwithstanding the thought that paying upfront for a cloth cover saves you money in the long run, that's not really right, at least not with the Fairclough setup (you could theoretically install, remove and store the cover yourself, but that's not really practical for us, and frankly, few people do that).

The Canvas Store in Huntington, NY will build a boom-tent type cover for $4400. That one actually would be less expensive over the long run because I would deploy, remove and store it myself. But, it doesn't provide as much coverage and there is no standing on the deck when it's deployed.

Nothing's easy and there always are trade offs.

Anyone know of a good winter cover that doesn't cost nearly $7,000 to build? And if anyone has any good ideas, don't be shy.

DG


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## lynn1120 (Jan 30, 2008)

*I have been looking too*

Hi Dan

I have some of the same issues-- I am going to try out a cover from Lohmann sails in BC Cda. I have nothing to do with the Co but the simple two piece-- no buidling of a winter structure appealed to me

Looks like I won't rec'v until Mid Nov-- so set up, while simple could be tricky at -20C ..

I can let you know later how it goes
L


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My boat is in my brother's back yard for now. I got disgusted with the lousy tarps available, so I tried an alternative. I went to Home Depot and got a roll of Tyvek and some Tyvek tape. I joined panels of the stuff with the tape by overlapping each side by 2" and taping the panels together on both sides. Attachment points were made by taking a 3' length of tape and applying it to both sides with about 6" of the doubled tape extending off the edge of the tarp. I just wadded this tape up and tied a line to it with a buntline hitch. This only two weeks old, but it looks promising so far, as I haven't seen anything move, and we've had quite a bit of wind lately. According to DuPont's info, Tyvek maintains 50% of its strength after 2 years in the sun. The 9' by 100' roll was right at $100, the tape was something like $14. The tarps I was using cost $50 and lasted 4 or 5 months. You could cover a whole lotta boat with a 900 square foot roll. Might be worth a shot.


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## ambianceack (Aug 27, 2006)

We used Quinte Canvas Manufacturing in Kingston Ontario. 1-800-268-4186 or email at [email protected]. We have a 34'sabre. Overall I am very satisfied with the cover. It comes with an aluminum frame that is color coded and relatively easy to install. We are going into our fourth winter and it has held up. I can install or take down in an afternoon. Time includes storing or removing from the basement. I have easily put the cover on and off by myself but it is far easier and more efficient with my wife. The cost for the entire system was 2562.00 (US dollars). The cover was shipped common carrier to Nantucket, Massachusetts. It is far better than shrink wrap, especially with landfill space or finding a recycle center that will take shrink shreds.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Here's an idea that is inexpensive and reusable. The cover itself is easily replaceable at your local blue tarp supplier!
boat cover, winterizing, tarp, blue cover


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I got a cover for a powerboat from these folks. It was reasonably priced, and has held up quite well. They're in Burlington NJ and worth a try.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

danielgoldberg said:


> Hi all!
> The Canvas Store in Huntington, NY will build a boom-tent type cover for $4400.
> DG


*

Please use extreme caution when dealing with these guys!* *The old adage "you get what you pay for" can be very true with canvas products!*

*Buyer Beware "The Canvas Store" (LINK)

Buyer Beware Part 2 "The Canvas Store" (LINK)

An this (LINK)

And this (LINK)*


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## hazmat17 (Sep 27, 2007)

Mom & Dad have a fairclough for their Freedom 38. It takes Dad & me ~ 2 hours boatside to set it up & get it covered. It goes even faster with a third set of hands. From a long term cost & environmental perspective, it is the best choice. You do need some storage space at home for the framing materials. If you are unable or unwilling to do the manual labor part - hire a couple teenagers (perhaps some of the local dockhands / launch drivers) - even at $50 each you're money ahead.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

*Boom tent cover*










If it helps, here is a pic of my boom tent. It can be extended to cover the entire boat but serves little purpose to my mind to do that.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think I'd avoid the Canvas Store in Huntington, NY... they remind me far too much of Peter Kennedy Yacht Services in Annapolis, MD.

BTW, if you need custom electrical work done in Annapolis, *DO NOT USE Peter Kennedy or his company*. Here's why I say it. *LINK*, *LINK*, *LINK*


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## ronbo1 (Feb 17, 2007)

Sorry for problems some have had but I've had a Canvas Store cover for the last 4 years. I had to have it recut as it didn't fit properly over the arch since my 44' sailboat is a semi-custom design.

For $3000 it's a good value, it comes down to the toerail and doesn't cover the Awlgrip hull which could cause blisters.

There are several others at the marina who have one and are pleased. Steve comes down to the marina and takes measurements for unusual designs.

Ronbo


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

k1vsk,
where did you get the boom tent?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

k1vsk said:


> If it helps, here is a pic of my boom tent. It can be extended to cover the entire boat but serves little purpose to my mind to do that.


Clearly you have not experienced a North East winter with an uncovered boat.. Condensation is the enemy and you need to be covered up here! Trust me you don't want three feet of snow sitting directly on the deck..


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

Well for the last 16 years I have stored my boat outside on Long Is. NY. I have a boom tent similar to the k1vsk one. My last one was too rotten to repair after last winter, so Jack Wedekind of Port Jefferson, NY is building me a new one for (estimated) $1200. The boat being covered is a 1972 Allied Mistress 39 and the tent just covers the (center) cockpit area with the cabin to the main mast forward and the aft cabin to the mizzen covered.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Maine Sail said:


> Clearly you have not experienced a North East winter with an uncovered boat.. Condensation is the enemy and you need to be covered up here! Trust me you don't want three feet of snow sitting directly on the deck..


Why would anyone say something like that implying I don't know what I'm talking about?
I've lived in New England for 61 years (so far), most of which as a boater, so I am not "clear" how I can not "clearly" have any experience... Perhaps you can see the snow in the picture?

Back to the issue -

the boom tent shown has a connector to cover the deck fwd but with the dinghy there, the surface area remaining is negligible and in 40+ years (with various boats), so far, so good... no damage from condensation or anything else and, in this case, the deck (non skid) is Awlgrip, as is the topside, so I am particularly keen on proper covering.

As a practical matter, it is quite difficult to completely insulate a boat from moisture as thoroughly enclosing it so as to preclude ventilation only serves to promote condensation, both within the boat as well as it's exterior. The Awlgrip serves to complicate the equation as it is essential it has ventilation space.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

wchevron said:


> k1vsk,
> where did you get the boom tent?


Not sure if this helps but I had Doyle Sails make it - $1500 in 2001 for the main piece and a few hundred for the extension (I used only once). No clue what today's market would bear but it doesn't hurt to shop around. They are not that difficult to construct so the labor charge should still be reasonable and obviously the material is your choice.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

We almost bought a boat with a Fairclough cover -- am glad we didn't because of the complexity of set-up/take-down and the hassle of storing the framing.

We have a full winter cover that works in or out of the water, supported by the boom and halyards over the foredeck. We can walk around on deck under the cover, but up at the bow we have to stoop quite a bit. We have never had any issue with condensation.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

k1vk,
it wouldn't happen to be the doyle sails in e.g. rhode island?


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

wchevron said:


> k1vk,
> it wouldn't happen to be the doyle sails in e.g. rhode island?


Now that you ask, I looked in my boat files and it was Thurston (in RI)


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

thanks,
i just had them price a dodger for me.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Sorry K1...*



k1vsk said:


> Why would anyone say something like that implying I don't know what I'm talking about?
> I've lived in New England for 61 years (so far), most of which as a boater, so I am not "clear" how I can not "clearly" have any experience... Perhaps you can see the snow in the picture?
> 
> Back to the issue -
> ...


K1,

Sorry my bad. I should know by now never assume!! I'm such a schmuck.. I checked your profile and it did not list a location. I then clicked your photo and got an error message. It worked this time and I see you are from RI and I see the snow. When you said boom tent that is NOT what I envisioned. That is about a 70-80% cover! I pictured a 15-20% cover only over the cockpit and some of the cabin..

I guess there is a difference between Maine and RI weather. Up here with a dark green hull if you don't cover the decks the temp swings from day to night and the solar gain on a dark hull will create actual precipitation inside boats with snow on decks. I looked at an Ericson 38 three years ago that was a virtual science experiment and it was literally snowing inside in it's own micro environement. Annie Gray my broker had never seen it snow in a boat and I had not either. i have seen it snow in my tents during winter expiditions but that was my first experience with snow inside a boat.

She had over two and a halff feet of snow on decks at a constant 32f. The the sun would come up and heat the top sides warming the interior into the 40's or even 50's while the deck was still at 32 degrees.. To make a long story short it was for sale and this was the first year it was uncovered. By April, whe I looked at it, the boat and iterior wood work was severly damaged and water stained. The foam backed headliner was so saturated with condensation that it colapsed and blew out zipers in some areas...

Now I'm sure it did not help that the boat sat facing SE near the waters edge and saw early morning sun on the hull after very cold evening temps

You're boom tent covers a lot but and I'm sure works fine with the weateher you guys see. It is very rare to see a boat up here without full coverage but by the time you hit MA some actually sit uncovered.

Our 2005 Catalina 310 sat uncovered at Eastern Yacht Sales in Hingham and it did condensate when snow was on deck. Once we closed the deal I paid to have it covered for four months.

If your decks are Awlgrip it's not a good idea to let snow sit directly on it. If you can, try to brush it off the foredecks. For short durations with dry outs in between you'll be fine..It's really much worse with deep snow as the hydraulic pressure from the weight of the snow can force moisture through teh paint causing blisters and bubles.

I was guessing you were from SC or somewher that never sees snow and you had a small boom tent..  Sorry for teh confusion.

P.S. You might consider updating your profile...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

k1vsk said:


> Now that you ask, I looked in my boat files and it was Thurston (in RI)


Neil Thurston does very good work!! He's one of the good guys..


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

he just priced a dodger for me about $2000 for dodger & new frame. is this reasonable. never bought a dodger before.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

wchevron said:


> he just priced a dodger for me about $2000 for dodger & new frame. is this reasonable. never bought a dodger before.


Can you give me the specs? It's hard to tell without knowing what he quoted as there are soooo many options with dodgers..


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

FWIW my boat's winter cover is a couple of large tarps over a frame made of EMT tubing (I'll probably use sched. 40 plastic tubes next). It ain't pretty but hopefully will keep the precipitation out (though I bought presumably heavy duty tarps online and they turned out to be kinda mediocre).


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Wow! I cannot imagine not covering the whole boat here in Michigan. I've done without and inevitably ended up with damage due to my negligence. The freeze thaw cycle will find any deficiencies in watertight integrity and make them into a more serious problem. I really don't want to get into the bone headed decision that led to my leaving the boat uncovered last year for a good portion of the winter. The money spent this spring was nothing as compared to the amount of time I spent for such laziness and stupidity. "Just a little rain" has a way of changing into "aw shucks" or maybe something a bit stronger. My hair hurts thinking about it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Brak-

Depending on where you live, it might be better to stick to the EMT, since the PVC Sched 40 pipe gets a bit brittle in cold temperatures in my experience.


brak said:


> FWIW my boat's winter cover is a couple of large tarps over a frame made of EMT tubing (I'll probably use sched. 40 plastic tubes next). It ain't pretty but hopefully will keep the precipitation out (though I bought presumably heavy duty tarps online and they turned out to be kinda mediocre).


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Brak-
> 
> Depending on where you live, it might be better to stick to the EMT, since the PVC Sched 40 pipe gets a bit brittle in cold temperatures in my experience.


I am on Chesapeake, it is not cold enough for that around here. I used 3/4" EMT previously but it is a bit tough to work with. I used 1/2" this year - easy to work with but not as sturdy.

Plus, with PVC there is a better variety of connectors - for example there is a 4 way socket, so I can easily make connections on top of arches for the forward-back rib, there are angles etc.

Anyway, I am not set on that - gotta go through this winter first.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh, so you don't have a real winter... just a bit of slightly cooler weather... 


brak said:


> I am on Chesapeake, it is not cold enough for that around here. I used 3/4" EMT previously but it is a bit tough to work with. I used 1/2" this year - easy to work with but not as sturdy.
> 
> Plus, with PVC there is a better variety of connectors - for example there is a 4 way socket, so I can easily make connections on top of arches for the forward-back rib, there are angles etc.
> 
> Anyway, I am not set on that - gotta go through this winter first.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Oh, so you don't have a real winter... just a bit of slightly cooler weather...


I know, I know. However - it occasionally gets frosty - my main concern is gelcoat. While in general in excellent shape (for 36 years old anyway) it does have cracks here and there - they are all tiny, but let the water get in there and freeze a few times, and it will be a much bigger problem. So - gotta cover anyway.

I am sure people up north have much more serious potential problems - I almost feel ashamed butting into this discussion


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Last year made a frame of 4" PVC for the ridge, supported by 2" PVC vertical struts, then high-pressure sprinkler hose for the ribs. Used four tarps to cover her. The tarps did not work well, so this year we're trying a pool cover on the recommendation of a fellow club-member.

Jim


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

boy at this expense you would think pulling the mast and using an indoor boatel might be cheaper. of course i am right by the inner harbor and my boat will be wet all winter, just a few sweepings to get the snow off. i might need to make 5 trips, and the harbor has not frozen but once in the last 50 years


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## CapeAnnBristol (Jul 28, 2008)

Is anyone able to post photos of their homemade pvc or emt structures? I'm planning to design and construct something along those lines and cover it with heavy duty tarps. Advise on good or bad online tarp vendors is also welcome.

Thanks


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

CapeAnnBristol said:


> Is anyone able to post photos of their homemade pvc or emt structures? I'm planning to design and construct something along those lines and cover it with heavy duty tarps. Advise on good or bad online tarp vendors is also welcome.
> 
> Thanks


I don't doubt that you can find tarps on-line but in most areas you'll find someone selling them inexpensively. In my case, there's a discount tool outlet nearby that also serves as "tarp and glove world". As mentioned above, swimming pool companies will be able to tell you where to get large sized visqueen although I think a tarp will work better. A local roofer would be able to provide you with information on where to get large tarps.

There were photos of someone's emt structure here last year...he was a tube bending whiz! I assume you've seen my earlier link to how to build a pvc structure. There's no reason that structure has to be mounted on deck either; you could build the base frame work on the ground.

Be sure to buy a pvc tubing cutter of the ratcheting scissors type...it'll make things go inestimably faster. And label the various tubes and fittings....no, you won't remember where they go a year from now. (g)

You might also want to have a grommet making kit on hand; that way you can add holes to your tarp where they're needed. You can get quite a few years out of a tarp if it's not flapping around.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

CapeAnnBristol said:


> Is anyone able to post photos of their homemade pvc or emt structures?


Here ya go: Index of /misc/sailboat/Abracadabra/Tarping

This year I'm going to add a strap length-wise along the ribs on each side and cargo netting between the ribs to reduce sag in the cover.



CapeAnnBristol said:


> I'm planning to design and construct something along those lines and cover it with heavy duty tarps.


Tried that last year, despite the many recommendations against it. It did not work out well. Oddly enough, for all the reasons I saw it anti-recommended 

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hamilton Marine has some pretty good tarps at reasonable prices...


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailaway21 said:


> As mentioned above, swimming pool companies will be able to tell you where to get large sized visqueen although I think a tarp will work better.


As I mentioned earlier: A fellow club-member has found swimming pool covers to work nicely. We just ordered one 40' by 16', "medium" duty, for $88. He uses super-balls, short pieces of line with loops at each end and adjustable bungee cords to hold it down. He uses those foam blocks shrink-wrappers use to keep the lines from chafing the hull. He puts a line all around just under the rub rail and keeps that tight with a bungee, to keep the wind from getting under it and blowing it out.



sailaway21 said:


> There were photos of someone's emt structure here last year...he was a tube bending whiz!


You're probably talking about TrueBlue. Here are the pictures: I designed and fabricated an EMT

And here's the thread, from last year, in which I found the link: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/37969-winter-cover-up.html



sailaway21 said:


> You might also want to have a grommet making kit on hand; that way you can add holes to your tarp where they're needed.


If you use grommets, make sure to duct-tape the inside, or they'll do Evil Things to your hull, no matter how well you think your tarp/lines are tightened. Ask me how I know . Plus, grommets are prone to ripping out.

Better to use the super-ball method or grip clips.

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SEMIJIm-

Good point about taping over the grommets...they can do a job on the hull finish if you don't, and again... *DON'T USE THE GROMMETS. They will tear out if you have the tarp tensioned properly. Use the superball and cord or grip clips... *


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

i used 1/2" emt last year to build a frame and bought some tarps from home depot. i used 3 tarps for my 30'er. one went from the stern to the mast on the port side, one from stern to mast on starboard, and one from mast to bow. with all the rigging, it wasn't a very tight fit around all the rigging but it probably kept out about 90% of the snow and worked pretty good.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

i used all the grommets on the tarps last year and didn't have a problem with any of them tearing out although there were some marks on the hull where they rubbed over the winter. those buffed out this spring but this year i'm going to cover them with something.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Uh, Jim? What are you placing the bungees through?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

CapeAnnBristol said:


> Is anyone able to post photos of their homemade pvc or emt structures? I'm planning to design and construct something along those lines and cover it with heavy duty tarps. Advise on good or bad online tarp vendors is also welcome.
> 
> Thanks


I have three words for you regarding a cover for the North Shore (I'm guessing Cape Ann, MA)..

Pitch, pitch and more pitch! It is the single most important thing one must to in high snow load areas. The cover must be able to dump or spill the snow or it will collapse. We see quite a few of the gourmet custom made covers collapse because they don't have enough pitch to spill the snow..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*This is especially the case with WET NEW ENGLAND SNOW. * The fluffy powdery stuff they get in Colorado isn't much of a problem, but the wet concrete like stuff we normally see in New England is a different story.



Maine Sail said:


> I have three words for you regarding a cover for the North Shore (I'm guessing Cape Ann, MA)..
> 
> Pitch, pitch and more pitch! It is the single most important thing one must to in high snow load areas. The cover must be able to dump or spill the snow or it will collapse. We see quite a few of the gourmet custom made covers collapse because they don't have enough pitch to spill the snow..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Photos may help..*

Notice the pitch and the lack of snow...








Just two boats away on the same day. Less pitch more snow.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailaway21 said:


> Uh, Jim? What are you placing the bungees through?


Not certain of what you mean. If you mean using the super-ball method: You make up short pieces of line with loops at each end. One end gathers tarp under the super-ball and the other end you use to hook the bungee. (I'm thinking maybe a buntline hitch for under the ball and a bowline for the bungee end?) The bungee hooks to opposing lines on each side of the boat. I'd make the lines long enough so the hooks were below the water-line, so you wouldn't have to worry about the bungee hooks marring your hull. Use the good-quality adjustable bungees from Home Depot or Lowe's. We used inexpensive bungee cords from Harbor Freight last year and they'd lost all their elasticity by mid-winter.

My fellow club-member that does this uses about a half-dozen of these per side on his J36 and he claims that it keeps everything tight.

Jim


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## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Here in Northern NH,

I made a frame out of 1.5 inch PVC. I didn't glue anything, just used twine to lace it all together. Side walls were 45 degrees, plenty of room to move around underneath and survived marvelously through a big snow year. 

I can't yet post images or urls, but you should know what to do...

See:


picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/UnderCover



Preserved 
Alberg 30


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Welcome to the asylum PK...

These are the photos PK wanted to post.  Looks good, but I don't see the twine.


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## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks SailingDog!

If you look carefully, you can see the twine here
picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/StrippingToeRails#

We got so much snow last winter, and this cover turned out bombproof! 

One small change I made mid winter, was to eliminate the 5 inch wide flat spot at the ridge by loosening up the tarp, and slipping a length of 2 inch pvc the length of the ridge, over the frame and under the tarp. That gave it a real peak and it sloughed snow just great.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

So, are those PVC pipes cemented together or just held in place by twine???


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Wow, those are some tall covers. Of course that was a lot of snow in the photo - I don't think we ever had that much here. Still, I wonder about the windage of cover like that.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

brak said:


> Wow, those are some tall covers. Of course that was a lot of snow in the photo - I don't think we ever had that much here. Still, I wonder about the windage of cover like that.


My college apartment was smaller than that!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Nice work, PreservedKillick! I see you are one of those lucky sailors with two boats!? (I see another under the shed, don't I?)

Also, I like your call sign -- Killick certainly is a memorable character! 

Carry on.


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## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks Guys. 

No cement was used. I got a big spool of twine and just lashed it all together. I had 2 or three vertical columns in along the center, and I did stick a screw through the joint to hold the column in. 

I do admit that it is tall. I wanted to be able to move underneath. We started working on it through the winter. Lucky the boat sits in a protected spot with little high wind exposure. 

JohnRPollard the other boat in the shed is a Catalina 22. Having two boats sometimes is a blessing, and other times a curse. We had the 22 in the water this year while we worked on the Alberg. Next season the 22 will probably stay in the shed since I damn well get the Alberg in the water. I also have a Hobie 16 that calls out when the water warms up!


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## slokaj (Apr 5, 2007)

We are also thinking of using a PVC frame and tarps to cover our boat this winter. Last year was our first year with the boat (Newport 28, kept in north Chicago suburbs) and the previous owner said he had never covered it; however we did get snow in the cabin after a late blizzard, so this year we definitely want some sort of cover. We were thinking of building a frame with the ridgeline over the boom, attaching the base to the toe rail and using line or bungees running under the hull or attached to the cradle to hold the tarps down. I've seen the tarp clips that have been referred to, but what is the superball? Any advice is appreciated as we're new at this (our other boat was a trailer sailer that we kept in a garage over the winter). thanks


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

A super-ball is just a hard little ball that bounces like crazy. My wife found them in bags of 48 (IIRC) from some China something-or-other on-line discount store.

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

slokaj-

These are superballs.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Guys, not sure but I think slokaj was asking what is the purpose/use of the superball.

Does anyone have a photo of the superball and line in use with the cover?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I saw comments that shrinkwrap was $1500? For what, a 60' boat? I'm paying $550 for a 42' X 13' boat (in white) with a reputable shrink wrap guy. Includes a clear door.
The wrap is recycled in special bins every spring.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Shrinkwrapping costs are highly location specific. 


xort said:


> I saw comments that shrinkwrap was $1500? For what, a 60' boat? I'm paying $550 for a 42' X 13' boat (in white) with a reputable shrink wrap guy. Includes a clear door.
> The wrap is recycled in special bins every spring.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

1500 dollar shrink wrap  


I see yard people building many frames to support the shrink wrap this has to be a huge cost compared to giving them a boat ready to warp


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

PK, Great frame!!

For the horizontal pipes that are about 3 feet above the deck, did you have to do anything special to have them follow the curve of the rail? (Or did they have enough flexibility that you could curve them easily?)

Also, maybe I missed it, what did you cover it with? Was it somehting home grown or did you have a professional build you a tarp?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

tommays said:


> 1500 dollar shrink wrap
> 
> I see yard people building many frames to support the shrink wrap this has to be a huge cost compared to giving them a boat ready to warp


Not much cost really. Use the boom across the center of the boat, run a line down from the gooseneck to the bow pulpit as a ridge line and run a line down from the end of the boom to the stern as another ridgeline. No need for a big frame. If the boat is big, sometimes a vertical pole or two is used up at the bow for supporting the forward ridgeline. More line is ran from the ridgeline to the rails. All this line is cheap non stretch.
For me, I ran my whisker pole from the mast to the bow pulpit so I have a pole over 3/4 of the boat.

Frames are needed for tarps that weigh much more than shrinkwrap. As long as the slope is good, snow will not build up, weighing down the cover. Shrinkwrap is more slick than tarps and sheds the snow easier.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Dan-
I purchased a Fairclough cover last year and Fairclough installed it the first time. Because of the cost of having them put it up and take it down I opted to do it myself with the help of a friend. I'll be putting it back on next week. As you know having had one, the frame is a piece of cake to put up. But the cover on a 49 foot boat is unbelievably heavy even in two parts and I'm not getting any younger. I think next year I'll pay Fairclough. 
I do have a different take on the cover. I believe that it really takes care of the investment in the boat. When I go to sell the boat, the buyers will appreciate that investment and that I cared for the boat properly. Plus they get a really nice cover with the boat. I have no illusions about getting my 6,500.00 back when I sell but I believe that the cover is a definite a check in the plus column when a buyer compares it to another prospective boat.


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## slokaj (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry, what I meant to ask was how is the superball used in relation to the tarp cover (my fault, poorly worded question). Can anyone describe or provide pictures? Thanks for your help.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Brezzin said:


> ....But the cover on a 49 foot boat is unbelievably heavy even in two parts...


Good gravy! Ours is in 4 parts and they are heavy enough!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

wrap the tarp around the superball...then tie the rope or bungie cord around the tarp, trapping the superball in the tarp. This allows you to create tie off point anywhere along the tarp that will spread the load out fairly evenly and have a low likelihood of tearing out, unlike the POS grommets they normally come with.


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## jjns (Jul 8, 2007)

Last winter I was quoted $1500 for shrinking. Ended up building one with electrical conduit and HD white tarps. 20x30 over the bow and wrapped around the mast, 20x40 over the (supported) boom/bimini structure. meeting edges were rolled and stiched with 4in cable ties and reinforced with Tyvec tape. Foam pipe insulation was used over all hard points and along the bottom of the tarp to keep the grommets away. Blue plastic tarp repair grommets were found to be very useful as they do not pull out. The Tyvec tape was the only thing that stayed stuck below -20C. My one regret was not enough pitch and had to clear off the snow a few times. Both tarps and all seams survived the winter, was well ventilated and cost about $400.
New location has me shrink wrapped at $850 disposal/recycling incl. and no maintenance, easy choice.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

You have to have real good framing here as with the current weather we allways get WET heavy snow 

It never lasts long but is does not slide that well and seems to build a lot of weight compare to more normal snow


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## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Bene505 said:


> PK, Great frame!!
> 
> For the horizontal pipes that are about 3 feet above the deck, did you have to do anything special to have them follow the curve of the rail? (Or did they have enough flexibility that you could curve them easily?)
> 
> Also, maybe I missed it, what did you cover it with? Was it something home grown or did you have a professional build you a tarp?


Hi Bene505,

Nothing special, they just bent with the curve of the boat. They don't even need to be so high off of the deck, I purposefully made the vertical legs fairly tall since I planned on working underneath and wanted the room. The vertical legs are capped with a "t" fitting that rests on the deck and can be seen here:


















For the tarp, I just bought the cheapest 20x40 foot tarp I could find. Since boat is in my yard I figured I'd keep an eye on it for replacement if needed. It did fine.

When we painted the boat this spring, I added legs to each "bent" to get it off the deck, and covered the whole thing with translucent plastic. It's wobbly as heck, every other leg is tied back to trees with twine. I was hoping it would just get us through the painting, but it's still gong strong 7 months later. It sways a little with the wind, but has never failed. 









Soon I'll take the legs off so each bent rests on the deck again for the winter cover.

I didn't glue anything since I wanted to be able to take it all apart for easy summer storage, and also was able to check on it as I worked throughout the winter. I once had a vertical center post fall down, but never anything catastrophic. If I were to leave it for a long time, I might clue some of the fittings, but leave some dry to make disassembly easy.


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## wildone (Nov 18, 2008)

Hi JohnRPolard,
did you mention where you had your canvas cover made? It looks great. I just got a quote from Fairclough and was a little shocked at the price, plus I'm not too keen on the complex structure. Any tips?


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

wildone said:


> Hi JohnRPolard,
> did you mention where you had your canvas cover made? It looks great. I just got a quote from Fairclough and was a little shocked at the price, plus I'm not too keen on the complex structure. Any tips?


Hi,

I think I may have mentioned that the previous owner had the cover made, but it was brand new/never used when we bought the boat from him.

My recollection was that it came from Canvas Creations in Annapolis, but I recently checked their website and did not see any mention that they do winter covers. It was _definitely_ an Annapolis outfit -- but there are no labels on the cover itself to I.D. it.

I saw the receipt when we bought the boat -- it wasn't cheap either (in the neighborhood of $4K).


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## wildone (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for checking anyway I think I know Canvas Creations in Annapolis. Heard lots of good things about it when I spent 4 months in Annapolis this spring. But pricey. 
In that case I think I'll just go with shrinkwrapping, although I hate the waste of plastic and have heard that it can cause small blisters where it touches the gelcoat. Do you know if this is true?


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

wildone said:


> Hi JohnRPolard,
> did you mention where you had your canvas cover made? It looks great. I just got a quote from Fairclough and was a little shocked at the price, plus I'm not too keen on the complex structure. Any tips?


Actually the frame is real easy to put up. It took my wife an I about 90 min to put ours up including the wood. Not complicated at all.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Unless you're really strapped for time, there's no reason to pay the pros $1500 for shrink wrap every year. I've had good luck doing it myself. Three years ago I bought the heat gun, gloves and tape tightening tool, etc -- with the cover, tape and other consumables for that year it all came to about $750 or so. This year I bought the plastic and tape I needed for about $300. (Boat - 47 ft x 15 ft.) I use Dr. Shrink (Dr-Shrink.com - International Shrinkwrap Supplier , Wrap Anything! ).

I will admit that it takes a bit of practice to get it right, but if you're careful and follow instructions well you can probably manage it. It's easier if you have one or two people to help and small boats are easier than big ones. I'd be happy to share lessons learned -- send me a PM.


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## wildone (Nov 18, 2008)

thanks for the advice billyruffn. I don't know if I dare do the shrink wrapping myself this year. I've heard from a few people that building a framework with Home Depot PVC pipes is quite simple, and then you can either have the homemade frame shrinkwrapped (making it considerably cheaper) or else cover the structure yourself with tarps or Home Depot 6 mil construction sheeting.
Unless anybody has any warnings about this plan (then please tell me), this one seems to make most sense to me so far.


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## jjns (Jul 8, 2007)

Wildone 
6mil may not be enough, it isn't just snow you have to worry about. I had many small tears over the winter caused by falling icicles from the mast/rigging, pointy things falling 20-30ft can do a lot of damage, at least the tarps have a weave that helps stop a tear, plastic sheeting will not. Repairs are easy enough with tyvec tape, only thing I found that would adhere to a cold tarp.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

I actually had forgotten I made this post, and I'm stunned at the number of responses. I guess it's the time of year to talk about winter covers.

I also have to say I'm surprised at this post, and the threads to which it is linked. I guess I'm not "surprised," because these things exist all over the place on the Internet, so "disappointed" might be a better word.

Folks, when dealing with someone's business you need to be careful, and it is downright reckless to condemn a longtime family owned business because one guy posted in detail his view of a particular dispute. I'm not saying that he's right or he's wrong. It reads like he did not have a good experience, and maybe The Canvas Store could have handled it better, but to foster and affirmatively perpetuate the notion that this business is run by a bunch of fraudsters is reckless. I know of no business, NO BUSINESS, that doesn't have dissatisfied customers, and even for good reason. No business gets it right every time.

The Canvas Store in fact is a very reputable company. They have made thousands upon thousands of canvas products, shipped them all over the place, and as far as I can tell they have very few detracters. Again, I'm sure this one guy was dissatisfied, and maybe even correctly so. But that leads to the conclusion, at most, that The Canvas Store did not get it right this time, not that they never get it right, commit fraud, should be reported to the better business bureau, criminally prosecuted, run out of town, lynched, beaten with a wet noodle, etc. Get hold of yourselves.

I have had a fair bit of experience with a number of canvas and sail makers over the years. Certainly not more than anyone else, but enough to consider myself as having experience in the area and the basis for an opinion. My experience with The Canvas Store certainly has been anecdotal, but I'll tell you, The Canvas Store has been pretty much at the top of the list so far for quality, attention to detail, customer service, and timeliness (and price, which is not a plus). They built an entire suite of custom canvas for us, including dodger, bimini, connector piece, cockpit cushions, and full enclosure. And we had them deviate from their normal product in a couple of significant areas. They came to the boat to take measurements, the came back to do the install, they came back to make adjustments, they came back to correct a couple of things that were not exactly right, and they did it all in a matter of weeks. When we had a problem with how the bimini was laying while out on our cruise, they came to the boat, took the bimini, fixed it, brought it back, and reinstalled it. In a day! And with a smile and great attitude to boot.

As for quality, the final product is awesome. We have owned the boat only a few months, but we've gotten more compliments on our canvas than we got for the entire time we owned our last boat (6 years). Again, I'm not saying this other guy is wrong or that TCS didn't screw up his canvas (I really have no way of knowing one way or the other), but think twice before you set about helping to destroy a family business.

MS, no disrespect at all, and sorry if this reads like a rant. I'm sure you were just spreading the word in an effort to help unsuspecting consumers. I just find this kind of witch-hunt thing scary, particularly when it's directed at a small family business.

Respectfully,



Maine Sail said:


> *
> 
> Please use extreme caution when dealing with these guys!* *The old adage "you get what you pay for" can be very true with canvas products!*
> 
> ...


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

I installed our new cover on SOLARE today.










All in all I think it came out well, a good investment in protecting the boat as well as preserving the woodwork.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

T37SOLARE said:


> I installed our new cover on SOLARE today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


does your boat have bad gas?

sitting by itself with no buddies near by it looks pretty lonely 

Nice cover rig


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

xort said:


> does your boat have bad gas?
> 
> sitting by itself with no buddies near by it looks pretty lonely


Well actually we have a understanding at the marina that my brother and I get to keep our boats together and for some reason they always put him in a very protected and prominent location. Just this year he decided to stop for a soda blast spa treatment before they move him next to me 










Oh, and he has a Canvas Store cover that he just hates....


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> *Please use extreme caution when dealing with these guys!* *The old adage "you get what you pay for" can be very true with canvas products!*
> 
> *Buyer Beware "The Canvas Store" (LINK)*
> 
> ...


Does anybody know if Tim from detroit ever collected his money? The threads are pretty old and are closed...


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

What about one of those canvas garage like things get one rv size 2-car it could fit a good size boat probably and youll have room to work on the hull and up on deck....just a thought


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Not really workable. Most of those aren't high enough to fit a boat underneath. A boat up on stands is often close to 12' high or so. Also, many aren't long enough to fit over a boat, since most are less than 20' long, and most boats would be longer than that.


mrwuffles said:


> What about one of those canvas garage like things get one rv size 2-car it could fit a good size boat probably and youll have room to work on the hull and up on deck....just a thought


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

OK I bought about 400 feet of PVC pipe and some of those blue tarps (40x30, 20x30, some smaller ones too). I bought connectors of all shapes and sizes, including many 45 degree connectors, since I'm planning a special design. The goal is a reusable structure an inexpensive tarps that get replaced every year. Second goal is to have an inner, secondary cover over a few haches that I'll leave open all winter for ventilation.

If anyone wants to enjoy a large-scale tinker-toy project in the next few weeks, let me know.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Post photos...


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, I plan to take pictures.

I have to wait until the boat is on the hard first. Meanwhile, I plan to take all the little peices and put them on the boat, so I don't have to haul them up later. The 10 foot pipes I'll do once she's pulled. There's no point trying to get them all to the far end of a long dock with a small dock cart. After she's pulled, I'll just lean them up against the hull and grab them from above.

Oh and I saved the 24 empty one-gallon antifreeze containers for use as weights once they are filled with water.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I cheated in making the framework for my boat. The Telstar 28 has a mast raising system that lowers the mast and leaves it sitting about a foot above the deck. I built plywood beams that sit on the mast and then used 2x4's to connect the tops of the vertical beams as a ridgepole.  Then I threw a big tarp over the whole thing.  There are three pairs of ratchet straps acting as guys to hold the ridgepole on center.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

I finally got some pix of our winter cover from the Canvas Store. Enjoy/criticize, whatever your preference.










And another:


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## ronbo1 (Feb 17, 2007)

I wrote back in October to say I too was pleased with The Canvas Store cover. Price was reasonable at $3000 for a 44'. It comes down to the caprail and attaches securely to the stanchions. Great for in water storage as you don't have to run lines under the hull, though I do when it's on the hard.

However for those still looking for a cover at this late date, I recently met Carl Pellegrini of seacanvas who was at my marina. There are two of his covers on boats and he was building two more. High quality and they cost about 3.5K for a 45'.

While it's similar to The Canvas Store cover Carl takes meticulous measurements to get a good fit the first time. 
He's located in New Jersey. No financial connections.

Ronbo


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

otaga05 said:


> I just got through building a similar frame out of PVC about a week ago. I used three way Y's for the peak so that I had a vertical to support the load as well as rafters to the side. I then put a T on the stem of the Y at right angles and attached a ridge pole between the uprights. I solved the problem of diagonal bracing by using four guy ropes going back down to the stantion bases from the top of each frame. The frames were 3-4 feet apart. I used heavier tarps though, the blue ones are cheaper, but they usually shred in a couple of seasons. I was very pleased with the result, with the dodger down you can move around on the deck quite easily, and all hatches etc. are easy to get to. I uploaded a photo to my gallery in case you would like to take a look. Good luck, and don't breath the fumes from the PVC cement!
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/photogallery/showphoto.php/photo/5275/cat/500/ppuser/129165


otega,

Nice construction you've done. How is it working out?

I'm planning on 1.5 inch PVC for the ridge pole, then 1" PCV coming down from it every 5 feet. They connect using a T that is 1.5 inches at the ends and 1" at the middle.

I'm also thinking about building-in an overhang, king of like the number "4", wjere the slanted part of the 4 keeps slanting up to the ridge pole. This is to keep the rain off the deck and allow ventilation.

Regards


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