# sailed once with my uncle



## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

other than that I know nothing but I'm a confident self-starter and with everything online DIY is seemingly easier than ever

I expect to catch a lot of flak for this but please try to focus your attention on the boat rather than my lack of experience

the worst thing that could happen would be selling it at a loss.

That aside, what does everyone think of this fixer upper?





































_*these other pics aren't so good* _


















































































*1963 Hall Russell & Co Ltd. Steel Ketch*

LOA: 88 ft 4 in
Beam: 21 ft 4 in
Maximum Draft: 11 ft 6 in

Engines: Dual Gardner Diesel Inboards

Shore power inlet - 220

1,400 gallon diesel capacity in the main tank plus two day tanks

*Asking..?* _*22,913 OBO*_


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Huh.


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

That's a project alright.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> *Huh.*


how bad does it look?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

That is a massive massive project to be undertaking. If you have hundreds of thousands of dollars ready to spend on it then you could get something cool at the end (but something that will be very expensive to maintain).

For the same price you could buy a much smaller boat but be sailing tomorrow.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> how bad does it look?


Have you ever been really hungry so you just pile food onto your plate thinking you can easily eat it all because you're so hungry but then you only get halfway through the food because you overestimated how hungry you really were and you end up throwing the rest away?

That's this boat.

In my opinion, if you don't know boats enough to see how much work and money this will take, this boat isn't for you.

If, on the other hand, you have unlimited piles of money and resources available and people who know steel boats and TIME, then go for it.


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

Run as fast and as far as you can unless you have a minimum $150K sitting around and can do the work yourself. Just to store it on the hard and do nothing with it would cost $6K+ a year. I can't even imagine what a slip would cost if you could find one. Once fixed up I would plan on a minimum of $35K a year in storage, slip, and maintenance.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

appreciate the replies folks, keep em comin


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> appreciate the replies folks, keep em comin


What are you expecting to hear?


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

Why does it break my heart to see this boat in such a poor condition. I can imagine its beauty before. If this boat could talk. 
Alas, as a newbie just like you, I second the other feedbacks, unless you actually have some emotional attachment to this boat, which would warrant in a sense the investment in time and money, I wonder what else could possibly be your advantage here. 
Also your experience does play a huge role here if this is a business decision, this would be a huge project even for a professional. Your experience or lack of it will cost you further. I doubt the investments will pay off. You also keep hearing all over about the weak market now from a seller's perspective. 
You simply have to weight the pro and cons.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

I wouldn't dock at a marina, I'd drop anchor wherever I could

I'm an aspiring liveaboard.

For me, this is house shopping.

I don't have 150k sitting around but I could definitely throw some money around

figure atleast 12k/yr

using the typical down-payment of a house as a measuring stick, 20% amounts to a mere 4500..


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> I...
> 
> I don't have 150k sitting around but I could definitely throw some money around
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I follow this, but math isn't my forte. It doesn't seem like your budget for the boat will be enough to keep up with the maintenance let alone get it back to where you could even think about having it insured or safe to live on.

It sounds like you're waiting for someone to encourage you to swan dive over this cliff. If that's the case, save yourself the time and just buy the boat, watch your DIY videos, and keep us (who think it's a really, really bad idea) updated on your progress so you can prove us wrong. We love a success story.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

That looks like a massive undertaking.

I'd have to ask myself the following before taking on a project of this scope:


Do you have had any experience working with anything related in marine environment (power boats, etc...) or is it just sailing that you are inexperienced with?

Do you have a pretty good skills in terms of working with steel, wiring, plumbing. Remember this is a marine environment not your house.

Will a long term project (years not months) stretch your finances or patients?

Do you have a place to work on this monster?

Do you have access/own all the different tools needed?

Those are the questions that come immediately to mind. I do not want to squash your dream, just trying to be semi-objective. Semi because I think it would be so cool to bring a boat like that back to pristine condition.

-Chris


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> *math isn't my forte*


I think I'd rather lose a 4500 dollar down payment than not try at all


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

150k would not even get you started with that boat, actually ship. If you get it restored for 500k you would be doing well.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> I think I'd rather lose a 4500 dollar down payment than not try at all


You found someone to finance this project? Go for it.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

killarney_sailor said:


> *150k would not even get you started with that boat, actually ship*


could you elaborate?

Where are you getting your numbers from? (no hostility)

I don't know what's wrong with her, not enough information provided imo


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

there's electric, plumbing, and steel work? other than that, it's just cosmetic right?


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> there's electric, plumbing, and steel work? other than that, it's just cosmetic right?


Yup, that's it. Knock yourself out.


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> I think I'd rather lose a 4500 dollar down payment than not try at all


Sounds like you already bought it. Have fun, and keep us updated on the progress and lots of photos!


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

BubbleheadMd said:


> *Yup, that's it. Knock yourself out *


try to keep it civil please..

it's not like I'm laying my money down, that's why I'm here asking questions

I've got a similar thread on another forum, trying to get as much input as possible

thing is my step father's a carpenter/electrician/mason/mechanic, plumber..

you get the idea-

and my brother's a diesel mechanic and into metal works

and I know I could get both of them to help me out

I'm just wondering where this 150-500k in restoration costs are coming from..


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil,

You're looking for affirmation, not advice. The majority of people who responded say it's more of a money pit than the average boat. Certainly more work.

If you still want to go ahead with it. Fine. If you don't want responses you don't want to hear, don't post in a forum where there are all sorts of opinions. 

Really, if your dad and your brother are your resources for getting it to where you can live on it, then THEY are the ones you need to talk to because it sounds like they will be doing the work. Everything else here is just noise.

If you had a specific question, such as "What kind of bottom paint should I use on a steel boat?" that's different. It's a directed question. Saying "what do you think" and then dribbling out information as the responses don't meet your needs is a waste of time you could be spending getting that boat back to her former glory.


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> I'm just wondering where this 150-500k in restoration costs are coming from..


It's coming from folks who have "been there, done that". It's called real world experience.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

That's not a "project" that's a career for you and the whole family, a 1400 gal. tank of fuel will be $5000, have you located and priced a 90' dock or yardspace ?
It's gonna cost as much as your down payment just to move it somewhere to work on it.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Preferable option A.. Put some money down on a nice condo, rent it cover the mortgage. Get a packsack and travel the world for a few years (maybe on others vessel like I did) When you return ,can sell the condo and buy a good dead boat .' Realistic' and 'dreams' are rarely found in the same sentence.


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## single2coil (Apr 12, 2014)

Let it Go>>>>>> You don't have enough runway left. There are better fixers than this. I know it is feeding your emotions and seems like you can do anything. But I have seen this before. You will be 90 years old before it is complete. Actually it will never be complete.
Enjoy your life, do not be beholding to a project like this. Sure you will get kudos for the project but they are empty.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

I hesitate to respond because I am pretty sure you are yanking our chain (good one!), but...

None of this matters. You say you plan on getting a loan for the purchase price. Never will happen. Settled.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Pupil, do you have a link to the ad for the boat? Is this a “Sandy” or “Katrina” boat? It looks like it was at least partially submerged at some point. The standards regarding plumbing and electrical are entirely different on boats. Your relative’s experience isn’t really “relative”. Look closely at the photos – there is a house toilet with a water tank! I can only imagine the hundreds of other things that are non-compliant with AYBC. I’m all for you following your dream, but I don’t think it is with this boat.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> *You're looking for affirmation, not advice*


untrue, I asked for an elaboration on the numbers-


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

Here is the ad for the boat

1963 Hall Russell & Co Ltd. Ketch Sail Boat For Sale -


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

GeorgeB said:


> * Look closely at the photos - there is a house toilet with a water tank! I can only imagine the hundreds of other things that are non-compliant with AYBC. is with this boat*


it's up in nova scotia, can't be from Katrina-

replacing a toilet doesn't sound difficult >_>

my step father's built 3 homes by hand..

and as mentioned earlier, marine is different but I don't know exactly

dry on land, supposed to be dry in a boat..

other than water-proofing everything

I'm really in the dark concerning this


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

Pupil, I can really understand your excitement and drive here. It would be a beautiful project, its a grand dream, and mostly its really beautiful when we can take a piece of junk and bring it back to its glory. We are artists at that moment! 
Your excitement though is also your downfall here because we are never subjective when we are so excited. Before you go down this road, play the devil's advocate. Don't look at what can go right and well, look at everything that can go wrong and bad. Do you have a backup plan for these situations?
I don't know much about boats and sailing, but I do know business. 
Break this down in stages: first you buy the boat, then you invest to fix it, then you have to maintain it. 
Lets even say for the sake of the argument that the first two stages are all done and good, you managed to fixed the boat, its all brand new. What then? 
Do you plan to sell it? Very hard to sell big boats and very much doubt the investment will pay off. 
Do you plan to make it your home? That will be a huge financial responsibility, way more than a house. It also constantly needs maintenance, way more than a house. 
Its also way more risky than a house from all sort of perspectives. Will you have a good enough steady income to keep up with such financial responsibilities? 
The question is not just about fixing it but what are your exact plans for after is all done? 
This is a huge project as I am sure, I hope at least, you know, this is a project that implies serious financial and time investments, and for that you absolutely need a business plan. You would be naïve to embark down this road without a clear business plan for the next, most probably 10 years. 
In simple terms this business plan implies a very clear and detailed assessment of the current status of the boat, of moving it and space allocation to fix it, a clear and detailed assessment on what you need to change, upgrade, refit, change etc in it. A clear assessment of the costs that the boat implies afterwards. Then simply do the maths. Money in, money out, that doesn't take quantum physics, knowledge, its pretty straight forward. And don't take into consideration just the money, time is money as well not to mention other factors. 
Making a business plan will help you assess things and especially bring you back to reality. If you cannot put together a business plan right now, then there you have your answer, no point going down this road. A business plan, no matter how annoying it might sound its your test if you are ready for such a project. 
Your family, the one that will help you, they wont help you for free, for a quick fix there and there maybe, but not for such a huge project, unless they own the boat as well, that also gets complicated when there are many owners. As they say in my country "family is family, but the cheese still costs money". Don't ever just depend on others that will do it for free or whatnot for such a project and certainly don't co-own unless you co-own with your wife, and then better don't divorce. 
You need to understand that once you go down this road, unless you can push through and go all the way, you will lose. So knowing that, what would be the point. 
Hope this helps.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Pupil,

Post a link to the ad.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> Pupil,
> 
> Saying "what do you think" and then dribbling out information as the responses don't meet your needs *is a waste of time you could be spending getting that boat back to her former glory.*


Not to mention, a waste of OUR time.

There are too many variables to enumerate, that could skew our estimates of what it would cost to restore that vessel. It's impossible to give you an accurate estimate based on some tiny thumbnail pics that you've posted on the internet.

As Donna says, you're looking for affirmation, not advice. Your kind pops into this forum often, and it's always the same story: "I want to do this. Tell me I'm right."

You're deaf to anything else. If you've got a family of talented tradesmen just waiting to pour their precious free time into that hulk, then why are you wasting your time talking to us? I wish my family was so generous.

I'm blind from all the dancing dollar signs when I look at that hulk.

- A typical repower of a single, 25hp diesel on a 35 foot boat is around $10,000. That thing has TWO, large engines. Engines so old that parts will be impossible to source. Gardner ceased production in the mid '90's. You're looking at 30 to $50,000 for two, new engines. (includes labor to adapt new engines to this vessel)

- $5,000 just to fuel it up, ONCE. Not including the day tanks.
- CSC Micron Extra bottom paint is $235/gallon. My 30' boat uses at least a gallon. That boat will use 4 gallons.
- Standing rigging- Miles of thick, expensive wire. Huge, expensive turnbuckles.
- Spars- Are they even safe to use? A crane would be expensive to remove and re-install them so that you can rehabilitate them.
- Running rigging- Miles of thick, expensive line.
- Electrical- Probably a spaghetti monster. Miles of marine grade wire to re-do it all. Hundreds of connectors, breaker boxes, switch panels and beyond.
- Generator- I'll bet there was a generator for hotel services. Probably DOA, and ancient. Parts unavailable. $5-7,000 for a new one?
- Instruments- Depth, wind, navigation, radar, speed. You should have AIS for a boat that large. That'll be several thousand dollars. I'm sure glad you can install all of that by yourself.
- Refrigeration? (food)
- Habitability? (bunks, upholstery, heating and cooling, etc)

That's scratching the surface. As they say, the devil is in the details. There will be plenty of gremlins I haven't mentioned, that will sap your restoration fund, and your resolve.

The fact that you expect forum members to give you an exact accounting ledger of restoration costs based on those crappy photos is pretty arrogant and my blood pressure is rising as I type this.

Bottom line:
The boat is crap. You're biting off way, way more than you and your family of tradesmen can chew. It's a black hole. The seller should be punched for asking $23k for it.

Help yourself, mate.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I've studied the pictures closely, and I don't see anything that a few trips to Home Depot and four or five weekends won't fix. If you don't get it, I will.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

GeorgeB said:


> Pupil,
> 
> Post a link to the ad.


Post #30.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

Don't let the armchair naysayer wimps dissuade you!!!! This is a fabulous opportunity for the first-time DIY sailor!!!! With your skills, you'll have that yacht fixed up in a couple of months of working evenings and weekends. If you start by October, you'll have it done by Christmas!!! That will give you plenty of time to sail her down to St. Barts for the February party season!!! With a boat like that in the harbor, you'll get more French gals you can handle!!! You'll need a much bigger motor yacht for the USA models and starlets, though.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Does that thing have a salvaged title? If you buy that boat, your step father will be chastising you between every mildew-soaked breath! Actually, it looks like pure mold in some of the pictures. He may walk off the job or even disown you completely. 

In all seriousness, what if you started with a smaller project? Maybe an old Alberg 30 or Pearson Triton, etc. Sounds like you have some good free labor, which is a great asset. You can learn some things along the way, then learn to sail, find out which boat would be your ultimate boat, and maybe break even on the sale of your first boat.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

More info:

Aberdeen Ships | TYGER


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

this thread is quickly devolving into mockery

there have been some helpful replies though (those of you who got Likes)

Not looking for an affirmation-

was hoping to hear an elaboration of common restoration tasks and specifically the costs 

tied to them..


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

First, how old are you, next are you nuts (trying not to get banned) ? Now just from the boat, she is scrap that is why noone is rebuilding her. She is in Canada, you can not aford to have her moved to Mass. To work on her, best thing, Slam your head in the car door 12 times then find another project to spend your time and money.


This should have been a no brainer.............. (SACKTMS)


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

FirstCandC said:


> *it looks like pure mold in some of the pictures*
> 
> *In all seriousness, what if you started with a smaller project?*
> 
> *Sounds like you have some good free labor, which is a great asset* .


Mainly I'd ask for direction, not labor itself unless absolutely necessary, a smaller boat isn't out of the question, and as for the mold, that's the sort of useful opinion I'm seeking

how am I to know otherwise?


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Now here is a ringing endorsement - “Spotted afloat and for sale at Shelburne, Nova Scotia, Canada, August 2013.” And those Brits got a different word for everything. Is "terylene" British for Dacron?

I’m beginning to rethink this whole thing. Go for it Pupil! Nothing in the pictures that a little sweat and a couple of trips to Home Depot can’t fix! Keep posting on your progress, and thanks for playing “It’s still only Wednesday and there are two more days before I can go sailing again”.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

That boat will never see the water again. If you throw a dime at it, you are throwing it away. Period.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

When a boat broker says right up front that a boat is in poor shape, run away fast. the costs for this boat would be incredible. Someone suggested four gallons of bottom paint. I use four gallons on my 45' boat. This would be more like 15 or 20. Go to any marine equipment website and see how much rope, chain, and rigging wire for a boat of this size is per foot and then multiply by the length you need. I did a quick check for 5/8" hot dipped galvanized chain (probably Chinese crap of they would have said differently and you might need 3/4" for this monster) and it is $15 a foot. Two anchor rodes, say 300 feet for each and you are looking at $10,000 for the chain with the anchors and a huge windlass on top of that - say $25,000 for ground tackle. If you are using it all of the time the chain will have to be regalvanized every few years - $5000? Also each piece of chain will weigh about 1000 lbs. How do plan to move it around?

I bought a heavy-duty 45' boat in pretty good shape for a lot more than this boat is selling for and spent about $70,000 getting it already for long distance sailing. I think my $500k estimate is likely on the low side. No bank in its right mind would finance you for this purchase because they would have no security when things went bad. If I am wrong, buy the boat and have fun. Your estimates of costs of ownership are absurdly low but proof us all wrong.


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Are you moving to Canada or shipping the boat to Mass? If it's the latter, have you got a quote yet? Just something to think about.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

killarney_sailor said:


> When a boat broker says right up front that a boat is in poor shape, run away fast. the costs for this boat would be incredible. Someone suggested four gallons of bottom paint. I use four gallons on my 45' boat. This would be more like 15 or 20. Go to any marine equipment website and see how much rope, chain, and rigging wire for a boat of this size is per foot and then multiply by the length you need. I did a quick check for 5/8" hot dipped galvanized chain (probably Chinese crap of they would have said differently and you might need 3/4" for this monster) and it is $15 a foot. Two anchor rodes, say 300 feet for each and you are looking at $10,000 for the chain with the anchors and a huge windlass on top of that - say $25,000 for ground tackle. If you are using it all of the time the chain will have to be regalvanized every few years - $5000? Also each piece of chain will weigh about 1000 lbs. How do plan to move it around?
> 
> I bought a heavy-duty 45' boat in pretty good shape for a lot more than this boat is selling for and spent about $70,000 getting it already for long distance sailing. I think my $500k estimate is likely on the low side. No bank in its right mind would finance you for this purchase because they would have no security when things went bad. If I am wrong, buy the boat and have fun. Your estimates of costs of ownership are absurdly low but proof us all wrong.


Hey, don't go bringing "facts" into this. You're devolving the thread into a mockery. Provide some "useful information" like how to clean mold from the bulkheads.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

BubbleheadMd said:


> - A typical repower of a single, 25hp diesel on a 35 foot boat is around $10,000. That thing has TWO, large engines. Engines so old that parts will be impossible to source. Gardner ceased production in the mid '90's. You're looking at 30 to $50,000 for two, new engines. (includes labor to adapt new engines to this vessel)
> 
> - $5,000 just to fuel it up, ONCE. Not including the day tanks.
> - CSC Micron Extra bottom paint is $235/gallon. My 30' boat uses at least a gallon. That boat will use 4 gallons.
> ...


excluding everything else, this was helpful


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

killarney_sailor said:


> *Someone suggested four gallons of bottom paint. I use four gallons on my 45' boat. This would be more like 15 or 20
> 
> Go to any marine equipment website and see how much rope, chain, and rigging wire for a boat of this size is per foot and then multiply by the length you need.
> 
> ...


helpful-


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> ...
> 
> was hoping to hear an elaboration of common restoration tasks and specifically the costs
> 
> tied to them..


Nooooooooooo. That's not what you asked:



Pupil2Prodigy said:


> That aside, what does everyone think of this fixer upper?


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Also I'm sure it's in need of new sails. I'm taking a stab in the dark here but I'd guess at least $5,000 for a new main.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

One other thing to think about it the cost of transporting that boat (ship?) from Canada to the US. 

I spoke to someone who works for a logistical company and they recently quoted a grain silo move from Canada to Georgia to the tune of around $140k.

I'm pretty sure the gross tonnage of the boat is greater than a grain silo, although the distance may very. All this is provided you can move a boat that size across country (under bridges, etc...) to where you are going to work on it. If not, it may have to be moved via another boat and I'm fairly certain that that would be quite expensive.

Once again, not trying to be a nay sayer, but help with your decision making. 

-Chris


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Based on the costs provided, he should have enough data points to make an informed decision now.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> *Nooooooooooo. That's not what you asked *





krazzz said:


> *Run as fast and as far as you can unless you have a minimum $150K sitting around and can do the work yourself. Just to store it on the hard and do nothing with it would cost $6K+ a year. I can't even imagine what a slip would cost if you could find one. Once fixed up I would plan on a minimum of $35K a year in storage, slip, and maintenance*





killarney_sailor said:


> *150k would not even get you started with that boat, actually ship. If you get it restored for 500k you would be doing well*





Pupil2Prodigy said:


> *could you elaborate?
> 
> Where are you getting your numbers from? (no hostility)
> 
> I don't know what's wrong with her, not enough information provided imo*


?


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> Designed by Camper & Nicholsons Ltd. for Sir Myles Wyatt, Admiral of the Royal Ocean Racing Club.
> 
> In 1963, the owner Sir Myles Wyatt, also became a Chairman of the Burntisland Shipbuilding Group, which included Hall, Russell & Co. Ltd. He was also Admiral of the RORC and a member of the Royal Yacht Squadron.


The original owner was a Lord who OWNED the shipyard where it was built at 1963 prices, pretty deep pockets to replicate. There's probably people on this forum who could buy that boat out of their "petty cash" drawer and none would touch that boat if you paid them.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Actually, you might be able to make out on the deal. Part it out. It is 115 tons, "the hull is of mild steel and the deckhouse of marine quality aluminium. Main and mizzen masts are of aluminium and all standing rigging of stainless steel." That aluminum is worth a lot. The copper can be stripped out of the electrical system and sold by the pound. Anyone know what the keel might be made of? Do you know anyone with a crane?


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

Pupil - honestly that looks like they are selling it for scrap price. hoping a business will come in and tear it apart and melt it down.

I have a background in metal, machining, engine maint and now days engine design -- I am also regularly called a dreamer for some of my far fetched ideas. -- I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. 

where will you work on it? 80' is bigger than most places can handle.

12 thousand a year is not a big enough budget. read some posts here from guys with 40 ft boats and you'll see they spend that much easily just to maintain their boats

as mentioned getting it here from Canada very difficult and expensive. 

now for the one I haven't seen mentioned by anyone.......IF you got it finished, you can't sail it single handed. It would need a sizable crew to handle that large of a boat.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Is this one near you?
1936 Lindgren Shipyard Ketch 47 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
I don't know the owner or the boat. Just linked it because you picked a big boat.


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

2 hrs south of me, still a lot closer than the one in nova scotia though, lol-


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

that one looks cool.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Besides the fact, that the boat is dead, doesn't it require some kind for formal education in order to sail a boat of that size in the US?


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

I could be wrong but I don't think there is a size limitation in the US on recreational vessels. Full disclosure I'm not a lawyer, US Coast Guard member, nor an maritime expert. I just haven't read of such a thing.

-Chris


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

He started a thread in another forum where he was soliciting funds 15k to fix it up and then he would coast hop around Newfoundland to Greenland on to Iceland and the UK.

_Polite initial response from another forumite._


> You really need a reality check. 15k is not enough to get a boat of that size and apparent condition ready for a trans-atlantic voyage.
> It might get you a set of sails, if you have the masts to hang them on, but that is about it - no interior no welding, no tools, no safety equipment - add it all up then either post a true costing or drop your advert - anyone funding even a small part of your dream for the 30K target you set is wasting their money.


_Not so polite response from me after he disclosed his passage plan._


> You sir are either a troll or a very very dangerous fool.
> 
> Coastal hopping via Newfoundland Greenland and Iceland? Words fail me. For a start cue the rerun of the Titanic. That is a route you attempt as a VERY experienced Captain.


_After seeing the ad for the boat_


> " Vessel is in poor condition".
> 
> Broker speak for we only just got her out of the water before she sank, most things are seized or broken. The few things still working are museum pieces and the last spare parts were made in the 80s.
> 
> Ballpark figure for a cheapskate, minimalist refit £1 million to 2 million That will fix the hull, specialist job to do those big shaped plates on an English wheel. New standing rigging and running rigging and a basic engine service.


_His attempts to get people to give him money continued._


> Collecting funds under the premise described by the original poster must be close to obtaining money by false pretenses.
> 
> It is always a shame to see a boat at the end of it's days especially one with a history.
> 
> But I suspect that it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore it properly.


_A final thought about that boats eventual end._


> Mind if you wait a year the yard will probably pay you to remove it.
> 
> Then 25 - 30 tons lead ballast with lead at 50 cents a lb Thats $28000 + to start.
> 
> ...


Troll ? Impracticable dreamer ? Darwin Award Candidate ? You choose.

MODERATOR NOTE - Pupil and the fellow TQA refers to are not one and the same. An honest mistake on TQA's part but a mistake nonetheless. I am not deleting the post however as the advice given is quite relevent though the criticism should be aimed at the other bloke not Pupil. (tdw)


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

OUCH. But he did do a smart thing by starting up here on Wednesday. Will the weekend ever get here? It is supposed to be NICE!


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

TQA said:


> *He started a thread in another forum where he was soliciting funds 15k to fix it up and then he would coast hop around Newfoundland to Greenland on to Iceland and the UK*


reporting you for lying, not sure if that's an offense here but it shouldn't be tolerated


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

There's lying on the internet?


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

link the thread you're talking about, I've only made this 1 thread and here: *sailed once with my uncle*


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

GeorgeB said:


> *There's lying on the internet? *


I believe this falls under harassment which is against forum policy


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

@tdw @dsavlin


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> link the thread you're talking about, I've only made this 1 thread and here: *sailed once with my uncle*


It took 10 seconds to find the thread:
My Gofundme Project to restore a 88ft 1963 twin screw steel ketch


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

obvious troll is obvious

I didn't expect to find immature people in this community

really am surprised


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> reporting you for lying, not sure if that's an offense here but it shouldn't be tolerated


:laugher:laugher:laugher
I know a Nigerian fella that would be happy to fund your project if you could help him with a little problem cashing a check ?


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

*"floating family home"*
besides the fact that, that's not me, I don't have a wife or kids..


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

capttb said:


> :laugher:laugher:laugher
> I know a Nigerian fella that would be happy to fund your project if you could help him with a little problem cashing a check ?


Nigerian fella? Hell, the dude's a prince! He has more than enough money!!!


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## Pupil2Prodigy (Sep 10, 2014)

I've done what I can in reporting the harassment, going to step out for awhile. bbl-


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Maybe not, but you have an uncle.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> *"floating family home"*
> besides the fact that, that's not me, I don't have a wife or kids..


If that isn't you, that means you have competition. You better get on this quick or the other guy is going to snatch this up. Sure, his gofundme project hasn't attracted any donors, but £0 is more that you will be able to get when you go for a loan, so he has the jump on you either way. I hope you are on the phone right now putting in an offer before its too late.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

We'll all stand by to be chastised by the internet authorities for our crimes against your dignity.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

I've done the math. It will cost you $378,663.87 to get the boat is sailable condition. 


People only give you sh*t because this is a project that should not, can not, and WILL NOT be done. Good fodder for all of us, but seriously bro, find another boat.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> I've done what I can in reporting the harassment, going to step out for awhile. bbl-


Pupil how much credence do you expect your complaints to get, when you come here as a newbie and within a few hours begin calling a somewhat long term member (who has helped many others in the past) a liar. Then you go on to say others are harassing you.

relax, breathe in a few times. You came here and asked folks' opinions. by your first post, you knew you were going to get some shenanigans. that is part of the fun of the internet.

Looking at your signature, you are "afraid" that if you don't venture on this boat you won't gain the treasure of owning it.

the phrase "nothing ventured, nothing gained" is a very true sentiment ... to a point. you have to keep reality in mind.

so your goal could be to first learn to sail, than buy a small boat, than move on to a larger project that could still be singlehanded.

there are people on this site from all walks of life, and with an unimaginable amount of experience in sailing and refurbishing boats. they will help you in any way they can, but you have to know which "future treasure" is worth the venture. part of knowing that is listening to people's opinions. even though some were sarcastic, you knew what they meant right?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Pupil2Prodigy said:


> this thread is quickly devolving into mockery
> 
> there have been some helpful replies though (those of you who got Likes)
> 
> ...


No, it's over, it's done, the boat is toast. You don't want it. Don't upon specifics why, there are too many why's.

Unless you have a good reason why you DO want it, maybe I'm missing that part. You should tell us, then maybe people will have a better understanding.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Where's Mr. Bubs' dead horse when we need it?

I think we have piled on more than enough. If Pupil hasn't gotten the message by now, he deserves the boat. 

Let's move on, shall we?


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

Tenoch said:


> I've done the math. It will cost you $378,663.87 to get the boat is sailable condition.
> 
> People only give you sh*t because this is a project that should not, can not, and WILL NOT be done. Good fodder for all of us, but seriously bro, find another boat.


obviously you forgot that the hardware had to be stainless and 1/2" bolts aren't gonna do it. gonna have to bump that number up a little. LOL


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

In before the lock!


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

firstcandc said:


> in before the lock!


lol


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

DRFerron said:


> Where's Mr. Bubs' dead horse when we need it?


Here ya go, Donna:










Also I like how NOB tossed his pearls of wisdom in here. (read: Said the Pot to the Kettle).

And also, in B4 lock


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Donna, you’re no fun! It’s still just after noon here on the left coast and we still have two more days until the weekend. My new VPC sheets came in yesterday and I’m itching to go sailing! North, are you going to EYC this afternoon for the Mexico cruising laws/regulations seminar?

I googled Miles Wyatt and found that he was a pretty interesting guy. He ran British United Airways in addition to his other interests. Sadly, he died in 1968, so he only enjoyed his yacht for five years. From the looks of the photo of inside the pilot house, this motor sailor must have been quite a looker in its day. 

Maybe there is still hope for Pupil and his project. If only we can get him in touch with Brent Swain?


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

GeorgeB said:


> ...
> 
> Maybe there is still hope for Pupil and his project.


Huh.

I do find it amusing that he wanted Andrew to come to his rescue.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

I think he is missing a great opportunity here. Just think how many brentboats he could make out of that thing once he chopped it up.


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## Bob142 (May 27, 2012)

No one mentioned an ultra sound test for thickness of the hull...or that in 64 they were still using a lot of asbestos that would need removed to sell for the scrap valve...


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Interesting the comment about raising money for repairs and such.

My boat is 27' long and I expect it to cost $25k to do the work I want to do. And, it's already in pretty good condition. All the little stuff really adds up quickly.

I think a lot of the comments here were pretty well constructive to bring some reality into the mix. People already talk about projects costing (at least) twice as expected and take three times as long to do.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Bob142 said:


> No one mentioned an ultra sound test for thickness of the hull...or that in 64 they were still using a lot of asbestos that would need removed to sell for the scrap valve...


Good call Bob. Asbestos could cause a significant rise in cost due to the specific requirements for removal and disposal.

-Chris


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

clip68 said:


> Good call Bob. Asbestos could cause a significant rise in cost due to the specific requirements for removal and disposal.
> 
> -Chris


Clip, just put it in a black 35 gal trash bag, and in the dumpster it goes.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Of course, this being British built who knows what the building practices were (I used to own an Austin Healy so I’m familiar with the concept of “what were they thinking?”). Asbestos absorbs water pretty readily so my assumption is it isn’t throughout the boat. Most likely it’s in the lagging around the exhaust elbows. Because it is diesel powered, I wouldn’t imagine there are any steam lines running through the boat. However, the steel could have been primed with red lead so there is that whole issue.

I’m still going with the Brent Swain solution – he has those back woods skills (like making an arc welder out of a lawnmower engine, a high output alternator and an old transformer) that will come in handy in the rebuilding process. Heck, Brent probably could shoot a moose and feed the work crew for the entire project!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

So.. just to clarify, it would seem that Pupil and the 'Gofundme' dude are not the same person... An easy mis-assumption to make; hard to believe more than one person would be tempted by that yawning money-pit of a project....


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Bob142 said:


> or that in 64 they were still using a lot of asbestos that would need removed to sell for the scrap valve...


I think you hit the nail on the head. It will take thousands of dollars to make it safe to scrap. My guess is that the hull is not sound enough to be dragged to India or one of the other places they stand bare footed on the rusting steel and cut them up. Between the lead paint asbestos, likely 10 year old sludge in the fuel tanks it will cost more to scrap it than the scrap value.

On the plus side My guess is that they will take the $4500 for it, but they likely will require a few years in advance in yard fees as well. your 12,000 a year to spend on it will just about keep the bottom painted, if you do the work yourself.

A local yacht club is trying to restore a 32 foot wooden boat from the 1970's and the estimates (with mostly volunteer labor) is about $400,000. That does not even include much in the way of systems as it has no running water, a composting head.

The other boat (wooden) you posted looks like you might be able to keep it up with about 30,000 a year. What you really need to look at is an old fiberglass boat. Not as romantic but will get you out on the water. You might be able to even find a decent 27-33 foot boat. It should be able to be maintained within your budget. Why would a single guy want a boat that big anyway? You need the smallest boat you can comfortably fit into. I have 4 kids from 15 and up to the thirties and plan on living aboard and being able to have them over often and I am only looking in the mid thirties.


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## DGA (Jul 24, 2014)

I have little sailing experience but much in life as far as large projects go. Having completed a 20 year project of my own design, I can say that my thoughts about anything this large are, the project is like climbing a tall ladder. Many people just see the top rung and only think of that last grab. But to climb that ladder you HAVE to like each rung, and treat each one as it's own project, and enjoy each one. Break it down into a rung at a time, and forget about the last top one, or the project will overwhelm you in a short time. You HAVE to enjoy the climb or you will never make it. Me, I would love to take it on, but it would be another ten year ladder climb I think.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

DGA said:


> I have little sailing experience but much in life as far as large projects go. Having completed a 20 year project of my own design, I can say that my thoughts about anything this large are, the project is like climbing a tall ladder. Many people just see the top rung and only think of that last grab. But to climb that ladder you HAVE to like each rung, and treat each one as it's own project, and enjoy each one. Break it down into a rung at a time, and forget about the last top one, or the project will overwhelm you in a short time. You HAVE to enjoy the climb or you will never make it. Me, I would love to take it on, but it would be another ten year ladder climb I think.


Except this ladder would extend into a deep, deep, hole.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Siamese said:


> Except this ladder would extend into a deep, deep, hole.


and you had to break the rungs as you went down, and had no way to climb back out when you were out of money/energy/time/life/what not else. Because a project like this has no end to it. More like a hamster wheel than a ladder.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Huh.
> 
> I do find it amusing that he wanted Andrew to come to his rescue.


... and why might I ask ? I think i'll have to report you for implying sarcasm, you dragon woman you.

Pupil .... I was going to join that ravening pack nipping at your fetlocks but then I thought ... hey think of the post count. We could up our Alexa rating by many a point. This could make up for the sad demise of the Steel Boat thread.

Then I went back to "this is effing demented".

Thankfully he seems to have decided on other options. One can but hope.


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

killarney_sailor said:


> 150k would not even get you started with that boat, actually ship. If you get it restored for 500k you would be doing well.


That's the ballpark I was thinking as well. As a project with the resources to hire some labor, that's a million-dollar yacht AFTER you put about $600,000 into it. A couple hours per evening part-timing it probably wouldn't even keep it from further deterioration.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I suspect it might be a million dollar yacht after you put $1.5 million into it. The half million estimate was to get it functional at a fairly minimal level.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Well. There's 11 pages of my life I'll never get back.
Buy it, it'll be fun.


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## HUGOSALT (Jun 15, 2004)

Disappointed in the negativity expressed in this thread, 
would much rather we focus on trying to contribute to the ultimate
success of OP's undertaking by using our collective expertise.
It is in that spirit I recommend we pool our knowledge and
endorse proper sized anchor/ground tackle for subject vessel!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

HUGOSALT said:


> Disappointed in the negativity expressed in this thread,
> would much rather we focus on trying to contribute to the ultimate
> success of OP's undertaking by using our collective expertise.
> It is in that spirit I recommend we pool our knowledge and
> endorse proper sized anchor/ground tackle for subject vessel!


You bad!!! Bad Hugo!!


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I once told a guy "I've got to write your annual Performance Evaluation Report soon so it COULDN'T hurt you to treat me with the respect appropriate to my exulted position as CCIC" (Chief Chump In Charge).
His reply "The only way you COULD hurt me with that report is if you roll it up and poke me in the eye."
He was twice my age and size, So that part about reporting us brought tears to my eyes....


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## Clarks Hill Windbag (Mar 27, 2014)

Heck yeah!!! Get a tug and some strong pumps, drag 'er down to Rock City and two for one it!


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Wow, didn't expect to see this thread this morning! It is turning epic- references to ground tackle, Brent Swain, and even an Office Space anime! The only thing missing is a heated granite countertops argument.
Kind of reminds me of the ultimate country western song. "I was drunk, the day my Momma got out of prison..."


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

she got run over by a dammed ol' train.....LOL


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

It occurred to me last night that you would eventually be needing a crew of at least 4 or 5. If I'm still able to walk, and have my own teeth when you get to that stage, how much do you think you will pay?

-Chris


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