# Reasons NOT to go Cruising



## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Laura and I have heard a lot of "I wish I could go cruising but..."

...the kids
...the grandkids
...my health
...my spouses health
...the mortgage
...my job
...my spouses job
...My dogs, horses, llamas etc.
...I am afraid of (Insert your phobia here - sharks, hurricanes, whatever)

My reason was that I didn't have enough money to buy the forty foot ketch that all the books and magazines had convinced me I needed...

...until a fellow we called "The Mad Scientist" called BS on me one day.
and made me see it for what it was: an excuse. Now I have been happily living aboard and cruising in my 27 foot sloop for 21 years.

So what other excuses have you heard, or made, and how would you overcome them?

What would you say is a legitimate reason to put it off, forgo cruising altogether, or swallow the anchor once one has gone for time.


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## bogdog (Sep 8, 2007)

heres to the "toos" (thats right I mean too). Too old, too young, too much money, too little time, too far, too,,,, etc etc etc. a bad case of the TOOs.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm afraid of not having an income, afraid that I won't be able to have an income while cruising, and afraid that I won't be able to start having an income again after the cruise is done.

My wife is not comfortable sailing on our current boat in the winter, and would not be comfortable for more than a few days at a time in the summer. So while we don't need a bigger boat, we need one with more stuff and stuff in better working order.

I guess those are my main reasons.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Who knows?...We moved aboard when we we're "young and in manure",- right out of the college apartment 39 years ago.


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## SailingWebGuy (May 5, 2010)

AdamLein said:


> I'm afraid of not having an income, afraid that I won't be able to have an income while cruising, and afraid that I won't be able to start having an income again after the cruise is done.


Those are m concerns as well.


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## DulceSuerna (May 19, 2010)

We have 4 greyhounds, our boat is not large enough and greyhounds overheat easily. While we do have dog sitters to allows us weekend and slightly longer trips, we have to wait at least 3-4 more years before we can move aboard. Of course we want a catamaran by then so it will be worth the wait. Income had been a concern Hopefully our rental property and our tree farm will provide enough to keep cruising, our plan 8 months out 4 months back for harvest and maintenance.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Just my opinion*

I think it comes down to this:

People want other things more than they want to go cruising.

They want creature comforts, a certain perceived level of safety (As if cruising is less safe than commuting on the freeway). They want pets that do not do well on a boat, like horses. They want to maintain existing social relationships, the prestige that their job gives them; There is an amazing equality among cruisers, regardless of material wealth. They may want constant connection to media - a news feed, for example. They may even be unable to give up a favorite soap opera.

Or they may simply be unable to break out of their comfort zone.

Lack of money may sound like a legitimate reason but, in my experience at least, if one really wants to go cruising, money issues are the easiest to overcome.

Health issues are a legitimate concern. You have to be in reasonably good health to go to sea. Having said that, I myself am a 62 year old disabled veteran. You do not have to be young or an athlete.

But that is just my opinion and not to be taken too seriously


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

When I come back from cruising I afraid of crossing streets.
I also can not drive a car above 40 mph.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I like what I do (can't call it a job - it's fun but doesn't pay much). I won't be able to do it while cruising. I couldn't even work successfully while living on land in a place that's only "slightly" remote and by all accounts still very much supplied with all features of civilization.

Plus - no one else in my family wants to, but that would not be a problem by itself


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Well put Vega. I think you have hit it on the head.......

I think more than ever it is harder to 'break away' from our modern society......and also too easy now to try and break away and find you have taken most it with you on your boat


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, for me, the money issue is there. I am a "brain labourer", in other words - I don't have a physical trade I can ply from port to port. It is hard to pick up the odd "electrical engineering" job or a quick "systems development" contract in ports up & down the Australian east coast let alone around the world. That said, it is not the decider.

The decider is that I have children, and frankly giving them every opportunity I can is far more important than my own freedom. They are learning to sail along with the wife & I, so should they choose to - they'll be able to pursue that. However, they are also being exposed to many other "land-locked" opportunities I could not provide them if we were cruising.

Honestly, I would probably tell someone where they could shove the idea that my kids are "an excuse" somewhere unpleasant. A 'choice' certainly, but an 'excuse'? No, I wouldn't say that.

That said, all my family knows (wife, kids, extended relations) that we plan to go cruising when the kids are old enough to look after themselves. I don't expect my kids to all go to university (hell, if none of them do and they're happy - I'm still pleased as punch). Yet, when they all get to that stage, we're off to enjoy the other half of our lives out on the ocean


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

chall03 said:


> .....and also too easy now to try and break away and find you have taken most it with you on your boat


Indeed. I do not understand it, but there it is.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't wish to limit myself. Right now I sail, canoe, go camping, snowmobile, snowshoe, work with a youth organization, and the list goes on. If I ever decide that cruising is what I want to do, then I will.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

To go cruising? 

First you must have a Boat


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

*there was this day in the Grenadines*

OK, here's a story.

I'm sailing for 2 weeks in the Grenadines. I need to (yea, I know beat me up on this ) check some email for work, so I look in the cruising guide and find this "internet cafe" listed. I run the dingy in, tie up, and walk into the place at approximately 2PM (1400 for you extreme nautical types).

The tattooed bar tender looks at me disdainfully to ask what I'll have. The long term cruising regulars are sitting at the bar, Nth round of rum drinks in hand, they glance up quickly, then go back watching their regular soaps on satellite TV. It was like a scene from the bar in Star Wars. It would take a lot to rattle this gang from their positions. I believe a ray gun fight between aliens would have barely caused a raised eyebrow . Feeling the chill of the moment, and the contrast from the warm Caribbean sun outside, I downloaded mail and left quickly.

We've spent as much as a whole summer on the boat. By the end of the summer we're ready to get off. In a few weeks, we're ready to go back out. When the New England winter ends, we are really excited to go cruising.

There are many long term cruise who don't end up in the bar from Star Wars , and we salute you . YMMV.

Live and let live. To each their own . All sailing is good.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

capecodda said:


> Live and let live. To each their own . All sailing is good.


Amen Brutha


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I do cruise, sometimes for weeks, but...

* There is more for me on dry land. Climbing, biking, snow skiing, hiking, and people.

* There is more for my kids on dry land. School (I have NEVER seen an individual that could home-school all classes effectively a the high school IB level--it would take a god and all of their time), stable friends, and my list too.

* There is nothing that we are trying to get away from. I am not stressed on dry land. My pace is what I want it to be. I have traveled extensively and this is where I want to live.

I make no excuses. I have what I believe are good reasons. Others can decide for themselves, but I do not see cruising as "living the dream." I am living my dream.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Cruising Means Going Somewhere*



capecodda said:


> There are many long term cruise who don't end up in the bar from Star Wars , and we salute you . YMMV.
> 
> Live and let live. To each their own . All sailing is good.


And there are quite a few "Cruisers" who do not do much cruising at all; except at the yacht club bar. We know people who self-identify as "Cruisers" that have not moved their boat in ten or even twenty years. They once sailed from point A to point B and are getting ready for the next leg. They just are not quite ready to depart yet. Their boat may be spotless and Bristol fashion or it may be piled with rusty bicycles, brown-spot surfboards and potted plants.

What is the difference between a sailor that has made one lap around the Pacific then nurtured a marine ecosystem on his keel in Honolulu for ten years and the couple that spends a few days, weeks or months at a time in port between long ocean passages for a lifetime or the young family that takes two or three weeks each year hopping from marina to marina in the San Juans? What about the software engineer that charters in the med for a month or does the Ha-ha every year; or even  the middle aged Latts and Atts subscriber who charters a forty footer and rents a pirate costume?

They are all part of the cruising culture. Perhaps I should have specified "Long-term cruising" in the initial post. "Long-term" meaning for a year or more.

The real reason I started this thread is that the other day yet another boater told me how "Lucky" we are to live the cruising life and how much he wished he could do it too.

We are not lucky and we did not get here by wishing. We set a goal, made a plan and executed it. Anyone can do it. The goal may be an open-ended long term sailing adventure, a single circumnavigation in a set time frame or a trailer-sailor camp-cruise on a local lake. The process is the same and it is all "Cruising"



pdqaltair said:


> I am living my dream.


And that's it in a nutshell


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

AdamLein said:


> I'm afraid of not having an income, afraid that I won't be able to have an income while cruising, and afraid that I won't be able to start having an income again after the cruise is done.


Those are my wife's concern, but not mine. I'm more concerned about dying before I get to do it.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

*Just do it and quit whinging says he laughing*

I agree that money issues are about the easiest to over come that hard ones are the social conditioning and ingrained paranoia implanted by the daily news telling people what they should be thinking. Once you cast off the lines and escape all that artificial muck things start changing quickly...well for most at least. There are always the ones on the "2 Years to do the World" tour. Who are not really there or here just in some limbo on a boat. Or the ones where he's along because she wants to and she's there because he wants to and both are wishing they were back with facebook or twitter or the latest soap opera. Then we see a lot who do nothing but complain about how bad things are here and how good they were "at home" ME I'm glad if those just go home and quite crying so I can get on enjoying paradise


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

Wow, theres a lot of angst out there on the high seas. I just cruise from the harbour as often and for as long as I can. Always planning but often delayed or postponed. Live and let live ain,t a bad moto.
Happy cruising


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

Cruising? Are we talking about forgoing all ties to the land and sailing off to horizons unknown. Yes, too expensive. I am not independently wealthy. I work hard for a living and enjoy the weekend and occasional week cruises up and down the Maine Coast. Does this make me less of a sailor, or simply more responsible? To cast off for a year of two to simply live out a fantasy? If I didn't have half a million in stocks and my house paid off, the only word to describe that is ludicrous. Some make the choice to buy a 40 footer and become live-aboards, marina allowing. Sure, I can see that. Live on the boat, work a couple of towns over? Sure sounds great. But to simply sail off? Irresponsible . . . unless you have the means. If you do, by all means, sail off. But keep in mind there are us poor cousins to the "real" sailors that must maintain a job, that can't go a year or two unemployed, that can't simply tie back and expect a job to be waiting for us, especially in todays economy. Maybe, just maybe, our dream is simply to sail . . . own a small sailboat and sail. To kick off all sense of reason and plunk down $5000 that we couldn't afford and sail. NO high tech trappings straight from Skippy's Yacht Service, no carbon fiber anything, simply a fiberglass hull, a few cushions and a love for sailing. Who has the greater love for sailing, the one who sails with little and sails as often as possible or the one with the floating house and all the conveniences? 

This thread smack of a little of "Let them eat cake."


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## omaho5 (Jun 5, 2008)

We gotta feed the wild life in Fall and Winter. Lots of deer. In Summer we '
must eat much to fatten up for winter so we can have energy to feed the wild life in F and W.
Sprintime...'tis a myth. Other than this we go sailing from late April till the ice starts forming n Nov.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

DonScribner said:


> This thread smack of a little of "Let them eat cake."


More like "Let them drink beer" :chaser

Seriously though. It is about priorities.

If your priorities list something like:

1. House
2. Car
3. Flatscreen TV
4. Another Car
5. Another Flatscreen
6. Latest high tech cell phone.
7. Latest fashionable clothes
8. Ski Vacation
...
42. Cruising in a boat someday

That is fine and you should allocate your resources accordingly.

Here are our priorities:
1. Each other
2. Good Health
3. Cruising
...
42. Horse farm in Vermont someday 

And we have allocated our resources according to plan.

As for the money involved, # 1 and 2 cost virtually nothing and we find that cruising over the past four years has cost a tiny fraction of what it cost to stay in one place and work. Even while living aboard, working costs more than cruising by a significant margin.

Because we have a plan, #42 will happen in due course. We are not wishing for it, we are working toward achieving the goal.

YMMV


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nicely said...


vega1860 said:


> More like "Let them drink beer" :chaser
> 
> *Seriously though. It is about priorities.
> 
> ...


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, as I said earlier, my priorities actually go:
*1.* My children (and their future opportunities)
*2.* My wife
*...*
*21-ish.* Pulling up anchor when the kids don't need us, for some time on the water alone with my wife.

Like yourself, we're working toward our future goals in ways that, we hope, don't impinge on the current ones.

For example, we take the kids out sailing every weekend - giving them the opportunity to take to the water should they desire without preventing them from access to other opportunities unavailable to the cruising lifestyle. At the same time, the wife/admiral and I are also getting more experience reading the wind, handling a sailboat, and talking like a pirate (cos that amuses me ).

The issue that seems to be ignored by the "pro-cruising" comments is that there is a false dichotomy involved. The people not drawing up anchor and sailing off into the wide blue yonder are characterised as having their priorities as


> *1. House
> 2. Car
> 3. Flatscreen TV...*


whereas the people cruising are characterised by:


> *1. Each other
> 2. Good Health
> 3. Cruising...*


The *only* reason I am not out on the water living my cruising dream is because my "_each other_" includes children that I wish to give every opportunity I can for their future. If I keep one foot onshore (with the job that entails), I can give my kids access to carpentry classes, computer graphics education, horse-riding lessons, drama/dance classes, etc *as well as* sailing experiences, camping, archery, fishing, etc.

The world isn't as black & white as some are implying, it is not an "excuse" to believe your kids might not want to follow *your* dreams (and so not giving them other opportunities hinders *theirs*), and it is insulting to characterise cruisers as being family people and non-cruisers as being materialistic.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

I've done the kids thing (been there done that), so I did my duty. I worked for over 35 years building a career that's no longer needed (construction), and I'm not about to start over again or welcome people to Walmart. I've done the nose to the gind stone gig long enough, and now it's time to do for me...to see what's on the other side of the mountain. There's no promise that if we do what's right there will be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but there is a promise that will be kept that one day there will be no more. I'm old enough now to be seriously thinking about my bucket list, because I know the longer I live the less time I have to live.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

Nice to see someone mentioned how much cheaper it is to live cruising than working. It's a little secret us old school boating people have known for years. The social economic traps are well constructed but they must allow escape vents. There are two types of cruising: the one where you try and continue living the same as before on the water and the one where you go I've had it to here and Im off to enjoy the world. If your in the second bunch it will not take long to realise how bad you had it when you thought you had it good. As for schools ... considering The US standing in global education you can plonk the kids in school in Portugal and they will be in a better system. Or go for class and try one of the French countries.. they have some very high standards. What it comes down to is you do it or you don't and all the whys etc really do not matter. Me? I hope you don't so I can continue to have all these great peaceful anchorages all to myself while you slave away to pay for Iraq and the Afghan fiascos.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

I think the important thing is the quality of life you start living when you are on the move. You stock up at the tax free ports on all the best imported goodies at less than the local generic stuff was costing in your old "Supersavercheapo" super market. You get veggies that were actually grown in dirt not a factory. Oh boy can I go on about that one. No idea what you pay for DVD movies but I pay $1.65. And smokes cost $1.12 a pack. Beers? Try $10.20 a case of 24 for Carlsberg or any of the better brands.We buy real Dutch cheese for cheaper than I bet you pay for those processed slices from Kraft.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

HVVega said:


> As for schools ... considering The US standing in global education you can plonk the kids in school in Portugal and they will be in a better system. Or go for class and try one of the French countries.. they have some very high standards.


Well, being Aussie, that doesn't really apply to me. Our schools are actually pretty damned good. We're by no means the best in the world (or if we are, I despair for global education in general); but we are pretty good all things considered.

But it is not just schools I was talking about. It is not easy to continue lessons in horse-riding, carpentry, etc whilst travelling port-to-port. Possible, probably, but not easy. Not everything we teach our kids is "book learning", and there are some practical skills & sports not possible whilst out on the ocean blue.



> What it comes down to is you do it or you don't and all the whys etc really do not matter.


I agree with this, but one need not characterise those that don't as materialistic simply because they don't drop everything to pursue their dream. Being a parent is about giving your dreams a little time off so you can raise your kids to be able to fulfil their own.

I know, for example, at least one of my boys is not interested in being a sailor, at least not in the predictable future. Should I squash his dreams to pursue my own? Is not squashing a kids dreams "materialistic"?



> Me? I hope you don't so I can continue to have all these great peaceful anchorages all to myself while you slave away to pay for Iraq and the Afghan fiascos.


Whilst I would love to engage you on that subject (and I'm not a war-loving guy); this is not the forum for that. We have a political forum on SailNet where this kind of thing gets bashed around plenty. Join us sometime


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

DonScribner said:


> Cruising? Are we talking about forgoing all ties to the land and sailing off to horizons unknown. Yes, too expensive. I am not independently wealthy. I work hard for a living and enjoy the weekend and occasional week cruises up and down the Maine Coast. Does this make me less of a sailor, or simply more responsible? To cast off for a year of two to simply live out a fantasy? If I didn't have half a million in stocks and my house paid off, the only word to describe that is ludicrous. Some make the choice to buy a 40 footer and become live-aboards, marina allowing. Sure, I can see that. Live on the boat, work a couple of towns over? Sure sounds great. But to simply sail off? Irresponsible . . . unless you have the means. If you do, by all means, sail off. But keep in mind there are us poor cousins to the "real" sailors that must maintain a job, that can't go a year or two unemployed, that can't simply tie back and expect a job to be waiting for us, especially in todays economy. Maybe, just maybe, our dream is simply to sail . . . own a small sailboat and sail. To kick off all sense of reason and plunk down $5000 that we couldn't afford and sail. NO high tech trappings straight from Skippy's Yacht Service, no carbon fiber anything, simply a fiberglass hull, a few cushions and a love for sailing. Who has the greater love for sailing, the one who sails with little and sails as often as possible or the one with the floating house and all the conveniences?
> 
> This thread smack of a little of "Let them eat cake."


Hey guys I think you missed the point of what Vega was trying to say.......

No one on this thread is saying that if you haven't cut all ties and sailed off into the sunset forever you are not a real cruiser......of course that is not the case....

Vega IIRC was originally talking about a very specific group of folk, who do have the means, who have the ability and pretend it is what they do want, who say things like 'one day we wish we could do what your doing' but everyone know that they are really kidding themselves....

I also think there is another point here worth considering, and that is as my grandma used to say "nothing worth doing in life comes without some sacrifice"..........

The reality is that the guys like Vega who are fulltime cruisers have probably given up alot to be so.........they all have their own stories as well. Thet have left careers, eaten into their nest eggs, they probably don't see as much of family as they would like........I think to walk up to such people and say " oh wow we wish we could do that" is perhaps to cheapen the price they have payed......the sacrifices they have made.

There is no right or wrong here.........whatever works for you. Whatever you can do to get some fulfillment and satisfaction on the water...live and let live, and if we all bump into each other out there then lets break out some beer and celebrate the fact that there is different reasons and different stories that would find a bunch of folk all sat around the same campfire in any given anchorage.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

*Get out there and have some fun before its too late*

Hay I like you mate I have a feeling with enough tinies you and I could solves all the worlds problems - says he laughing. Good stuff if you do or if you don't is really up to you and what you want and never let an old muck sturer side track you


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow, we have all types here. I promise I won't be pompous/arrogant enough to tell others that they are "irresponsible" if they decide to cut ties and cruise full-time because it might point out my own inadequacies for not doing so.

That said, here are my two cents:

Money is the main issue. I am a semi-retired EE that now runs my wife's law practice. It would be difficult for either of us to be able to put into port and get a job for additional money. That and the fact that my wife's youngest is 14, so we have to wait a bit longer. We have already gotten rid of the home, furnishings and the storage with years of memorabilia, so we’re almost ready.

With how the economy has plummeted, we dissolved our retirement several years back when the things went south. The boat market was starting to soften then, and so we invested in our first starter boat. We're on our third and probably final now, and will be crossing off the balance of our excuses soon. We then plan to toss the lines off for the last time and, although visit frequently to the home port, will live aboard and cruise.

Also if this $600 billion dilution of our currency fouls things up even worse, as the experts seem to agree it will, the sailboat is a great refuge. About how many pounds of food do most of you cruisers keep aboard? Including rice, beans, canned goods, and other essentials, we probably have around 300 pounds aboard.

As for putting in to check emails; I agree that is something we would want to do. Also update blogs, etc. As far as the rustic bar that was described, when we sold our first boat and upgraded, we found a five-year waiting list for the size that we bought. It was only when we looked around Long Beach/San Pedro that we found some slips available. Now THAT is a rustic area. Lots of freighters and the lower-end live boards. The types I'm talking about live aboard more out of necessity than choice. You also have the old, gruff, sailor types that are generally a joy to chat with. They are usually very intent on teaching and telling stories and are not judgmental towards the noobs. There are also the fishermen, both commercial and private, that are great to get along with. I guess that with all this, we have been able to get along with just about anyone and would feel comfortable anywhere. You can find good and bad everywhere, but you can usually make things work in your favor.

Vega: Glad you started this thread. I also subscribe to you on YouTube and enjoy watching your progress and the daily routines.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

tomperanteau said:


> As for putting in to check emails; I agree that is something we would want to do. Also update blogs, etc.


This is, after all, the 21st century 



tomperanteau said:


> Vega: Glad you started this thread. I also subscribe to you on YouTube and enjoy watching your progress and the daily routines.


Glad you are enjoying the vids.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

Ha Ha too many Vega's in here Just goes to show the smart ones think alike, says he laughing. For the email we use Sailmail and it works great for us even on the most isolated islands where we work. As Vega commented "This is the 21st " and all that. Economy? Yeah it is in the dumps and likely to stay that way unless you were in the gang that robbed us all. In that case you're laughing. Just as a note we once did a set of lists - one side had "Land costs" and the other said "Boat. We listed everything we could think of that were expenses for both and then added them up. Amazingly enough the Boat was about 80% cheaper than the Land. Mind you we do not spend our lives in expensive country club marinas etc. But we do have a great life style and would not trade it for anything we have seen on land. In any case what counts is having fun on the water. For some of us it is our lives. For others it is a week-end pass time.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

You had me going there for a moment with the YouTube as we do not have one of those. We are on FB and Twitter though if you want to follow HVVega


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## Qomomoko (Jan 23, 2011)

I plan on not just wishing I would sail and liveaboard. I would say that 5 years ago I said to friends that I would like to live on a sailboat but it was more of a naive fantasy whim. At the time I would use most of the excuses listed on the original post. My lifestyle is now morphing into an independent individual withdrawn from mainstream society. I realize that it is almost impossible to say I want to live on a sailboat without having sailed. I feel that I am taking initiative to get my feet wet and eventually, if it turn out to be what I thought it was, take the plunge into the deep blue sea ( or the clear seas of the Caribbean).


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

I have a bit of perspective that helps insofar as I have already lived aboard my Catalina 36 in a marina for a few years 20 years ago. I enjoyed it and am clear on the pluses & minuses. As for cruising, I fall in with some other posters in that I have a lot of different things in my life that I enjoy and sailing off would mean that I would lose those. I also possess a complete lack of curiosity and lack of interest in visiting faraway island cultures. However, my only son is now away at college and as he develops his own life, probably not where I am, my thoughts could change. I can sometimes see myself cruising the clear waters of the Caribbean, just island hopping around on a small simple boat like a PSC 31 (my favorite). We'll see. Luckily, I have no financial concerns, so it could just happen. I'm 58, I'd better figure this out soon. 

Mike


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## swimrdie46 (Mar 30, 2011)

BS filter needed.

I grew up sailing. I even spent my car fund on a 16' catamaran. I always said "when I retire, it will be on a 40' sailboat." Now at 36 I've started laying out a plan to semi-retire on a ~40'er with a tiny cushion of 50k in the bank. I'm a former US Navy helicopter electrician/rescue swimmer. I've worked on particle accelerators for 14yrs and have a heavy skill set in fixing all things broken, from TiG welding to electronics to sewing and I'm a master diver. And, I just don't see how I can cast off and go for it. When I started drawing up "the plan" I counted on still making 15-20k per year in various ports. But, most of what I've read points to that not coming close to possible. I'll have my wife and daughter with me and taking care of them is my #1. I really want to escape the race to buy crap I don't need but how the heck do I buy what I do need for the next 30yrs? How am I supposed to not just submit to the system?

Josh


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## limeyrock (Feb 24, 2011)

*'light' living*

*Swimrdie*, I don't know how in-depth you have looked with regards to research and budgeting but, while I am a novice to cruising, I am somewhat experienced in living cheap (or 'light' as I call it) by choice and otherwise, I offer this advice:

First, swallow your pride (if you have any). You'll never live cheap if you aren't willing to leap in a dumpster in front of your best friend because you reckon that [insert thing that you could use/sell/one-then-the-other] is probably serviceable and just needs a new [insert cheap part, easy bit of labour, simple cleaning]. If you are willing to do this, but your best friend now won't be seen with you, replace them with a better friend and preferably, one who will help you drag it out too. You can replace 'leap in a dumpster' with 'do a [filthy/low-pay/both] job' too. Making assumptions about your having a Navy background; I don't think you'd have a problem with this.

Second, assess whether your wife and daughter can do the same. You are no longer the primary bacon-bringer in the family unit, all must bring cured pork products as they can; If any one of the three of you isn't willing to mend, make do and contribute to the household, it's probably not going to work.

Don't start by figuring out your costs by taking your current costs and whittling down. Start from nothing and build them up on *bare* essentials. Carefully assess each item and categorise it by 'necessity', 'luxury', 'security'. Then decide on the level of 'security' and 'luxury' items you are comfortable with.

Replace as many things as you are comfortable with free or low-cost alternatives. For example Libraries have free books and internet as well as quiet thinking space. Buses are cheap but a reliable second hand bicycle can sometimes be had for free or nearly so, and will keep you fit too. Keep these things in mind while you assess your budget.

That said, don't count everything in terms of the money it costs you. Your skill set is broad and by the sounds of it, a lot of it is extremely useful. 'Price' things by how much they are worth to the seller, not how much they cost.

The most important thing to remember is not to listen to anyone like DonScribner about how irresponsible you are being by living your dream, you can easily identify these people; They use phrases like "in this economy" and "I work hard for a living". They usually have no idea what real responsibility is, they are following the 'American Dream' which by any other name would be a nightmare.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

*Somew skills are easy to market anywhere and after all what is safe these days?*

Where to start?I loved the guy who was just sooooo responsible to everything and everyone except himself! Needed a half million in STOCKS etc to take off and go live in the rest of the world. I can tell he did not have a half mil in stocks or even close when Bush & buddies crashed the stock markets a few years back. There are millions of people who lost everything they had worked for in that rip-off alone.

As to the 30 years from now what makes him feel that he is safe sitting in front of his computer in a rented ( or rented from the bank) house? Guys all that is just as false an image of real life as the one that says you have to have the boat 100% ready before you can go sailing.

Two posts up is a guy who I know would have no trouble in the world finding work that would not only pay very well but also pay tax free so he would get ALL that he earned rather than having to pay for the latest war to keep the arms manufacturers in business and the oil companies happy - read the last three at least.

I know for an absolute fact it is easier to live outside the US with all the comforts that really matter in life than in it. We live better, cheaper, and have a much happier life style. Once you get over the belief that the US is the greatest - read what ever you like - then you might start seeing that the rest of the world doesn't live badly at all, and on a lot less money.

As for work? We have never been short of things to do in the past can't remember how many years, but it has been a long long time. We bought Vega with money we earned in two years working outside America tax free. All legal all above board. Once you get into the bigger picture then it is actually much easier to make ends meet and have a lot of butter left over for your bread.

I could rant on for hours all based on my years of traveling the world but I think those who will are getting the idea. Those who will not - well - someone has to stay behind and pay all the debts that have been run up in our name, or at least they think they do. Won't be me though.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

swimrdie46 said:


> BS filter needed.
> 
> I grew up sailing. I even spent my car fund on a 16' catamaran. I always said "when I retire, it will be on a 40' sailboat." Now at 36 I've started laying out a plan to semi-retire on a ~40'er with a tiny cushion of 50k in the bank. I'm a former US Navy helicopter electrician/rescue swimmer. I've worked on particle accelerators for 14yrs and have a heavy skill set in fixing all things broken, from TiG welding to electronics to sewing and I'm a master diver. And, I just don't see how I can cast off and go for it. When I started drawing up "the plan" I counted on still making 15-20k per year in various ports. But, most of what I've read points to that not coming close to possible. I'll have my wife and daughter with me and taking care of them is my #1. I really want to escape the race to buy crap I don't need but how the heck do I buy what I do need for the next 30yrs? How am I supposed to not just submit to the system?
> 
> Josh


With that skill set, you don't think you can make a living on the move?? As a fellow Navy buddy, let me tell you that you _can!!_

Your welding and diving skills alone would ensure that you could pull in $20k per year in the various ports that you stop in. Trust me. If you buy a Sailrite heavy duty sewing machine and get some training in sailmaking, you could add sail repair to your repetoire.

Imagine pulling into a distant marina for a while, diving on hulls, mending sails, and performing welding and fabrication. Re-build the cruising kitty, and move on.

Your family is the anchor that concerns you. You don't want to accidentally punish your kids through your potential mistakes, and I understand that.


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

*Totally agree*

Well said even if I was thinking he could do 3 months with the oil companies doing under water wielding at 20K EURO a MONTH - one Euro is now about $1.35 US - then slide along till next year while also building the retirement fund, but your idea work just as well and is more "relaxed" life style. Just remember American business is not paying very well at all right now ( and that is before you consider the high cost of living, taxes, et al) so get out there where the real money is and have a great life at the same time.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Lol...Vega, the reason I laid out the plan for him that I did, is because he said he can weld, but I didn't get the impression that he can weld *under water* which is a totally different skillset.

I have a friend who's a hard-hat diver. He welds at nuclear power plants and the like. He makes an obscene amount of money. If Swimrdie has that skill, then yes, he can do it just as you say.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Swimr, I agree that with your skill set you should be able to sustain yourself ... be advised that you'll primarily be marketing (discreetly) to other cruisers; some other countries don't issue work permits that could take jobs away from locals. 

On our last cruise, we budgeted $2500/month, and that was generous - the only month we came close to spending that much was the time we had the outboard rebuilt THREE TIMES due to ethanol in the fuel. So if you've managed to save up $50K by age 36, you're certainly frugal enough to make it work ... whatever timing you choose.


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## limeyrock (Feb 24, 2011)

*It comes down to how you measure quality of life.*



HVVega said:


> Words


Amen.

There are a lot of frustrated, angry, depressed people out there who by Consumerist standards have fantastic 'quality of life'. They get paid a lot of money working for a 'reputable' company (doing a job they hate), they have a big, beautiful house (on loan from the bank, which they never enjoy because they're working 6 days a week to keep it), they eat expensive ready-prepared food (expensive because of the preparation, marketing and packaging, not the ingredients). They're working incredibly hard and investing a big portion of their life to accruing all the things we are told will make everything good. Still not happy? your [house/TV/Car/Boat] isn't big enough, work harder, get a bigger one.

The idea is that at some point in the future, when everything is paid off you can kick back and enjoy the fruits of your labour. It sounds like a great plan, and it's one that worked for previous generations. The problem is that these days all the processed, pre-packaged food and the stressful job you hate has probably deteriorated your health to the point that you'll die an early death from any number of health problems. If you haven't reached the 'end-zone' by this point the legacy you leave for your children or loved ones could be a burden.

When these frustrated people look (usually down their noses) at an independent person living a 'light' life, the immediate presumption is that they will be unhappy, because the superficial signs of 'quality of life' are absent. When the person turns out to be happier than them, sometimes magnitudes so, a common presumption at this point is that they must be, in some way cheating the system. They must be a rich waster or at least lucky, that's what you need to live happily right?*

The truth is the self-employed or self-sufficient people, be they live-aboards, homesteaders, crofters, etc have set themselves a much more sane and reasonable target; To live efficiently, to own what's theirs, to live well and to owe no other. That's real responsibility right there. There is no working/living divide, they are often one and the same.

*Of course there are these people, there are marinas full of them. There is more than one way to escape the rat race and I bear no ill feelings towards any fellow escapee. The wasteful ones even help to keep the dumpsters stocked with treasure.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Nicely articulated, limeyrock


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## HVVega (Dec 12, 2010)

*Oh well I knew I was doing something wrong*

There are a lot of frustrated, angry, depressed people out there who by Consumerist standards have fantastic 'quality of life'.And all this time we were happy - when living on land - to be in a place where we lived in a beach house wiyh a gardner, house boy, cook, driver and a the like eating fresh veggies from the local farms and fish the fishermen brought round several times a week. And all that time we should have been chasing money or rather more debt I should say... as few people really see any money these days. To think we do not have the latest IWhatever or a new phone that gives change in 38 curencies! The world is lost to us! Now we live at sea most of the time traveling between some of the worlds loveliest plaseson a 119 year old boat. To think all these years we could have been building up more and more debt and paying higher and higher taxes! I should cry at what we missed if I wasn't laughing so hard. On anchor off a tax free tropical island in South East Asia. Just do it! If you can make it in the US you can most likely make it anywhere.


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## swimrdie46 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Hijacker*

Sorry if I hijacked the thread. Thanks guys for the reassuring perspectives. I was most worried by the need to work covertly or the red tape of work visas. I would feel a lot better if I could just hoist an advertising flag. Unfortunately I'm not a hardhat diver. And, I would have to assume that underwater welding is a much different skill. I haven't met any underwater welders that can weld very well on dry land. My wife is a writer and my little girl is home schooled so we are already disconnecting from the system a little bit at a time. But, it looks like I will be weekending it on my little 27' O'Day for another year or so until my $ cushion is a little bigger.


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## limeyrock (Feb 24, 2011)

HVVega said:


> And all this time we were happy - when living on land - to be in a place where we lived in a beach house wiyh a gardner, house boy, cook, driver and a the like eating fresh veggies from the local farms and fish the fishermen brought round several times a week.


Reminds me of when I lived in Uganda, I was living out of a rucksack staying in everything from mud huts on the Sudan border to beautiful houses on the shore of lake Victoria. The NGO I was with had a rented house just out of Kampala with a Gardner, Guard, Housemaid. Amazing avocados, fresh Tilapia straight out the lake. Yet some of my colleagues could think of nothing but how we didn't have satelite TV or air conditioning or broadband, and spent their downtime drinking in the ex-pat dive bars.

I spent my spare time building a mountain bike out of scrap parts from the local bicycle yard, and then I rode it all over Kampala. In my spare afternoons I talked to the staff in the evenings and they told me about everything from local superstition to the benefits of Guinea fowl over chickens. I borrowed a dirt bike some evenings and taught myself to ride a motorbike.

A lot of people just can't separate Happiness and Luxury, can't see the real value of things. I call this living in abject luxury.

EDIT:
swimrdie, you haven't hijacked anything, your questions and concerns are bang on topic. God luck and good speed my friend.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

You didn't hijack it. You are an interesting example of how it can be done, and it was pertinent and worth discussing. You have the skillset, now just investigate how to navigate with/around the work-visa issue so you can work legally.

It's great that your wife has a skill and a job that doesn't require her to be chained in a fabric covered cubicle. That's 50% of the battle!


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I've heard both sides, one says you cannot make ANY money outside of your own country, and others that say you can make a fair amount doing odd jobs. Which is it?? It has been my experience that some one with a rare skill, like welding, or computer repair can often get small jobs outside of major cities , (where these services are common), like in small isolated communities where getting something fixed means a long trip to the "BIG" city. I recently got a free stay in a hotel (several hundred dollar value), by showing the manager how to download an antivirus, and setup a firewall. If you are resourceful you can make it happen.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

I would like to point out to HVVega, who I assume is a US citizen, that you are liable for US taxes no matter where in the world you generate the income. So I have to question the 'tax free' remark.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

ScottUK said:


> I would like to point out to HVVega, who I assume is a US citizen, that you are liable for US taxes no matter where in the world you generate the income. So I have to question the 'tax free' remark.


Only if our criminal government finds out so they can skim their take.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Regardless you do have to file a return every year if you are a US citizen but are a resident of another country and earn your income in that country. The US is one of the few countries in the world that does this. In my opinion this amounts to double taxation. I have paid taxes in the US from income generated from other countries for years now even though I have not set foot in the US for many years. Though the US has tax treaties with these other countries where citizens from other countries pay US taxes on income generated in the US (fair enough) they do not have to pay taxes to their home country. However in these treaties the language states that US citizens are still liable for US taxes. 

I believe in my case the tax burden on the income generated from other countries (I don't have income from the States other than from savings and mutual funds) would be less if the income were generated in the US. Now that is implicitly unfair!


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## swimrdie46 (Mar 30, 2011)

The tax issue is getting worse this year. I travel all over the US, Europe, Middle East and Africa for work and for 2011 I will have to pay income tax in the US as well as the country I visit. Trust me, I'm all for working under the radar.


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## SoulVoyage (May 9, 2010)

BentSailor said:


> .....
> The *only* reason I am not out on the water living my cruising dream is because my "_each other_" includes children that I wish to give every opportunity I can for their future. If I keep one foot onshore (with the job that entails), I can give my kids access to carpentry classes, computer graphics education, horse-riding lessons, drama/dance classes, etc *as well as* sailing experiences, camping, archery, fishing, etc.


I could NOT disagree more.

Many, many of the families I've met that have decided to take their kids cruising have ended up with some of the most well-rounded, creative, sociable, fun-loving kids I have ever seen.

The reason?

Cruising kids get used to devising their OWN forms of entertainment. I knew one family who's kids made their own barbie dolls and GI-Joes. The outside world becomes their fort....not some computer screen. This adds to their creativity. They take the time to do artwork and writing aboard.

Far from being social outcasts, I think cruising kids are actually MORE sociable than their landed peers. Most cruising families tend to anchor or travel with other cruising families. This becomes a social network far more REAL than Facebook. Boat gets to a new anchorage, what's the first thing the kids do? Get in the dinghy to scope out if there are any other kids their age. Most kids are naturally sociable (far more than most adults), it's when they sit in front of a computer or TV 6 and 7 hours a day, "socializing" w/ kids they've never even met, that they become less sociable.

And Home-schooled (or boat-schooled) kids are some of the brightest, most educated kids I've met. Often boats with kids will share their educational times with other boat-kids, to become a sort of floating classroom.

I know of cruising families who stay a month or two in certain ports so that their kids CAN take dancing classes and horse-riding lessons.

Sure...there will always be the kids who feel they are being "dragged along against their will". They're called TEENS. You have to deal with those creatures whether you're in a house OR on a boat.

Far from your strange view of thinking that kids will somehow be 'losing out' by being taken cruising.....from what I've seen...the kids would be losing out by NOT going cruising.

Everyone's got different opinions, though....those are just my own.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

SoulVoyage said:


> Everyone's got different opinions, though....those are just my own.


-_laugh_- Nice way to put it. I think, though, that you focused on the social and (academic) educational aspects and left out the other things I try making available to my children.

One of my boys is into choir, drama, and dance. He also happens to be the most interested in sailing funnily enough. I've talked to a few cruisers (admittedly, not many as I don't know more than a handful) and getting him to drama & dance classes (let alone finding a choir that will accept him for short-stays outside church) is immensely difficult.

Another of my boys is a "man's man". Very much into learning wood-working & metal-working, horse-riding, sports camps, etc. Again, things that I cannot easily provide for him whilst cruising.

I've two other children that would probably benefit much more from cruising without missing much. One of them is the stereotype you characterise today's land-locked children by (but no different to what I was like at that age to be honest), and so would benefit alot from being forced to engage the world in other ways. The other is too young to have generated interests outside the family that would be missed.

The thing about family though is that you need to balance the needs of all the members as much as possible. Whilst two of my kids would benefit more from cruising (in my opinion), the other two would have to give up their passions. Whilst I am not worried (at all) by missing visits to/from extended family, my wife is routinely made to feel guilty because we moved two hours away from them.

If I'd been able to get started earlier (back before my children had grown roots), it might be a different story. I, however, must deal with my children as they are rather than as I wish they might be. I love them too much to do otherwise


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Not quite sure what this thread is about - people do what they do either because they want to, or because they think they have to. In either case, its their business, not mine. It's great for forum members to offer additional information, but I get the sense that BentSailor is feeling defensive about his choices. 

But what do I know? When we left we had no dependent children or dependent parents, no cat, no dog, not even houseplants.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Yeah, I'll admit I am a little defensive when it comes to choices I make as father of my children and the reasons for them. Hell, I'm a defensive person by nature - just more so when it comes to those I take care of (hint: never bag out my wife, I'm really not a nice person after that  ).

I apologise if I came across as onerous or aggressive. The OP asked the reason for my not going cruising and I felt, perhaps unreasonably so, somewhat defensive when someone decided to tell me I was wrong about my reasons (with me reading into it an implication I was denying my children a better life). I'm very sensitive about my immediate family and will take a step back next time before responding.

Apologies to anyone I spoilt the thread for.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Bent, I'm chuckling quietly at you! There you go, apoligizing again. I meant exactly the opposite; my gripe is not at you, it is at anyone beating on you for your choice. You explained - once - that in the situation that is your life, with the information you have about the players, that this is the best option. Others provided what might be relevant information that maybe you hadn't considered. You considered it, then decided your original choice was still the best. Nothing there you have done needs defending. 

FWIW, some "friends" have chided us for not cruising further, since we're so free. Thanx, but my interests lie elsewhere. I don't want to be a great sailor, I want to have a great life, while sailing.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

swimrdie46 said:


> The tax issue is getting worse this year. I travel all over the US, Europe, Middle East and Africa for work and for 2011 I will have to pay income tax in the US as well as the country I visit. Trust me, I'm all for working under the radar.


Form 2555 and 1117 are your friends.

I've worked abroad for almost all my adult life, in Israel and now in Canada. Never paid a US penny on what I earned in either place (granted, at least in Israel the taxes were way higher than the US rate would've been).

Talk to your accountant.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

WnW said "I don't want to be a great sailor, I want to have a great life, while sailing."
Very well said.
This thread has made me think about why we aren't off cruising in exotic locations, we have the time and resources to do so. Bottom line is that I don't have a burning desire to live aboard year round, and we have some of the best cruising grounds in the world right out our front door, IMHO. I'll be lucky to have explored 10% of the area between Seattle and Juneau before I'm ready to give up boating, and when it's too cold and wet here, there are always boats in warm tropical locations available for charter (so I'm told, no first hand experience). I do have a major ocean crossing on my bucket list (I just want that experience), haven't decided where or when yet though. I guess I'm just really happy where I'm at.
There is also the grandson factor involved )


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanx jrd - hey, I thought the Chesapeake was supposed to be "some of the best cruising grounds in the world" (at least that's what the advertising claims). If you're ever out this way, you're invited aboard and we'll test it out.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

CrazyRu said:


> When I come back from cruising I afraid of crossing streets.
> I also can not drive a car above 40 mph.


LOL - too true! Worse, I rented a car whose speedometer was in metric - so I'd be doing "50" in town ... and it felt like I was just driving way too fast, as it would be if I were driving at 50 MPH in town ... until I realized 50 kph was really only 30 mph ...


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## Merit25lovers (Mar 30, 2011)

...although the dog loves it, there's no way we'll get the cats on the boat....


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

*Success story*

We plan on departing in 14 months on the Ha Ha. 
We have been outfitting our new old boat for 2 years. 
We had a Catalina 30 for 5 years.

It all started for us when I went sailing with a work buddy. Then decide to take sailing lessions. I loved it. I then thought I was real good after Sabot, Holder and cataermaeran lessions. I took my wife out one winter after noon and turtled the holder. She does not swim well or see well without glases. I will not get into all the gory details.

I was looking for a retirement plan. Not having a lot of money the sailing dream seems the way to go. I had worked on tugs and in the merchant marine in Boston as a young man so am familiar with commercial boating. Not so for my wife.
It took a year to convince her to go sailing again. She sugested this time we took keel boat sailing lessons together. It was a great idea for lots of reasons.

Next I sold the Harley and bought the Catalina 30. Another mistake. I did not counsel with her. For the first year the boat sailed us. My wife hung in there. I read all the books, magazines etc I could on what not to do to get her to come along. It paied off.
Example:
Don NOT make it like camping!
NO yelling!
Have a nice toilet ! May seems strange to some but it is important to my wife.
Curtin's for privacy etc ect. Some things I do admit I never thought mattered!
We have done this and much more.
For some years we had some hard times with the decision to retire (her to quit her job) and then to retire on a boat. My wife is 12 years younger than me and was worried what would happen to her if I crooked? What about if she needed to return to the work place, what about her SS etc. We eventually worked theses out. Went to a counselor (work benefit) etc.

Next was deciding to sell the Catalina 30 and get a bigger boat. We together searched and decide on a boat, took a couple of years . When we found the boat we liked we talked about it and then we bought it. That was what I should have done before.
It took a while but it has worked out.
We were taking the other day and she mentioned that we should move onto the boat!. We are and at the end of this month. Giving everthing in our little house to our doughter, good timeing as she is moving from roomates to her own appartment.

To keep the social fabric we will cruise Central America Pacific side no further than Ecuador. Our daughter lives in CA as we do. We will not be too far for a flight to meet each other. My wife has never lived out side California.
I mentioned about my wife being a reluctant cruiser and she said "Not any more "!
So for us it was the whole retirement issue, and the complete change of life issue and it has not been easy but it has worked out and we are together and happy.
My wife is currently taking Spanish classes at SDSU and so I am also learning some Spanish defcto 

We decide we wanted a nice safe and comfortable boat for costal cursing . We chose a boat that does not require much climbing around. Has easy access from the stern from the dingy. Three steps to the salon. We chose this instead of a wraparound queen bed on a CC. We are re-upholstering it, have re-powered it, installed a house hold size Vacuflush toilet, nice Kolar shower equipment, new anchor windlass and bow rollers etc. All the work we have done together. No microwave no oil lamps (LED's) and we chose a 1978 36' Islander Freeport sail boat.

For instance we had a 50 hp Perkins that ran with 1000 hours on it. We chose to repower and it took a lot of thought. But for us, me at 64, I need to be think of being 70 and keeping us as a couple. I do not want to be chasing parts another country. We replaced everything in the engine room. If I was 30-40 years old maybe we would have gone with the Perkins. Just another choice. 
So I know there are the toilet wars and anchor wars and many other but for us this is what is working.
We are lucky that we do have some choices and can afford some of them. That is part of the reason for the 36' boat.
Hope this helps someone as they sure helped me with the tips on how to treat your mate on a boat, understand their fears, communicate etc. Also my wife is as good as me at sail trim, taking the helm etc. I am also taking over the cooking on the boat as she likes some "blue" jobs and I like cooking a "pink" job. We now have no color codes for these 
This is a success story even if for some reason we never leave the dock!
We love each other and are happy and fairley healthy, and ask for no more. 
Thanks for listing,
Chip


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

For some folks it is just too difficult, too uncomfortable, too many sacrifices, too many complications, too many obligations, roots too deep in one place; any of a thousand things.

For us it was simple. It is just the way we live: On a boat. Now here. Tomorrow somewhere else.


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## onTheBayChrisJ (Dec 23, 2007)

I'm afraid once I leave, I'll never come back.... actually, "all things have their time" and for me, this time is coming. I've been preping my wife for a couple of years now and it isn't if, its when.
Chris


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

swimrdie46 said:


> The tax issue is getting worse this year. I travel all over the US, Europe, Middle East and Africa for work and for 2011 I will have to pay income tax in the US as well as the country I visit. Trust me, I'm all for working under the radar.


I don't consider what we might do as "working under the table". I won't go into the whole Unconstitutionality of wage taxes, or whether or not the tax law was properly ratified, as the information is all over. What I will say, is that if you don't believe that wage taxes are legal and you choose not to pay them, you already pay TONS of taxes on the goods you buy.

Remember the loaf of bread argument about how many taxes are on a loaf of bread? Our tax rate not including income tax is probably somewhere between 80 and 90%, all inclusive. And then consider that every time you buy a used car or boat, you are again paying taxes on an item that has already had tax paid on it. Figure that one out.

So I'm with you on your ideals, just perhaps not your semantics.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Personally I don't need a reason to head out, just a good excuse. We're getting close, too. One or two more big cases and we'll have a bit of a nest egg built up. The wife can always practice certain areas of law from the boat, and we can skip up and down the California coast as needed.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

We shall have to get together for a beer Tom.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

vega1860 said:


> We shall have to get together for a beer Tom.


Sounds good. let me know when you're in my neck of the waters.

On a separate note, I bought a nice little oil lamp:


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## Fill52 (Apr 15, 2011)

DulceSuerna said:


> We have 4 greyhounds, our boat is not large enough and greyhounds overheat easily. While we do have dog sitters to allows us weekend and slightly longer trips, we have to wait at least 3-4 more years before we can move aboard. Of course we want a catamaran by then so it will be worth the wait. Income had been a concern Hopefully our rental property and our tree farm will provide enough to keep cruising, our plan 8 months out 4 months back for harvest and maintenance.


Hi. I have similar financial position, but suitable size cat can be built on partnership base much cheapper than average.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

wingNwing said:


> But what do I know? When we left we had no dependent children or dependent parents, no cat, no dog, not even houseplants.


And now? You have all of the above? :laugher

I would be interested to hear more about your cruising budget; where you were cruising, how much you spent on what. 
I'm looking at retiring in 2-4 years max. and my son will be off to college so....


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## Fill52 (Apr 15, 2011)

sailordave said:


> And now? You have all of the above? :laugher
> 
> I would be interested to hear more about your cruising budget; where you were cruising, how much you spent on what.
> I'm looking at retiring in 2-4 years max. and my son will be off to college so....


I'm not cruising yet, but going to do it in same 2-3 yers time. I have 50' catamaran hules and bridge custom made and planning to finish in by myself. However, if I do it alone it should take a more time and money than I can afford. But a small team can share the budget and make a 2-3 catamaran copies dramaticaly cheapper than I can myself.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

sailordave said:


> And now? You have all of the above? :laugher
> 
> I would be interested to hear more about your cruising budget; where you were cruising, how much you spent on what.
> I'm looking at retiring in 2-4 years max. and my son will be off to college so....


Hi Dave, our cruising area was/is US east coast & Bahamas. We budgeted $2500/month, which we never spent. As well as I could remember, it broke down approximately as $500 maintenance, $150 boat insurnace, $200 communications (2 cell phones, internet, mail-forwarding service), $400 food, $100 booze  . The other $1000 or so was combined fuel, marinas, and shoreside entertainment. The months we were really pushing hard to get south, we could spend $400-$500 on diesel alone, OTOH, we didn't spend a lot of time seeking entertainment during those times, we were just too tired. This is a 33-foot boat, paid off, and health insurance for not included in the budget.

We still have no parents, kids, cat, or dog. However, we seem to have acquired houseplants in the form of a complete marine ecosystem growing on the hull below the waterline. Ugh.


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## severnmd (May 29, 2011)

This thread has me chomping at the bit to improve my new sailing skills ( less than a 2 weeks) and learn to handle a larger boat. I want to get out there and cruise for awhile!!!!


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

wingNwing said:


> Hi Dave, our cruising area was/is US east coast & Bahamas. We budgeted $2500/month, which we never spent. As well as I could remember, it broke down approximately as $500 maintenance, $150 boat insurnace, $200 communications (2 cell phones, internet, mail-forwarding service), $400 food, $100 booze  .


$100 on booze a month? Teetotalers!


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

severnmd said:


> This thread has me chomping at the bit to improve my new sailing skills ( less than a 2 weeks) and learn to handle a larger boat. I want to get out there and cruise for awhile!!!!


Uh oh. You've been bit.


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## dangwood (Jun 18, 2011)

well spoke vega!.......I agree.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

rbrasi said:


> $100 on booze a month? Teetotalers!


Nope, just knowing where to shop ... a fifth of Cruzan rum only costs about $4 in the USVI.


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## cbtucker (Jun 21, 2011)

Count me as one of those dirt bound dwellers desperately wanting to live the sailing life! My kids are off to college or will be in a year. Single guy, with only himself to please. However it is amazing what you realize when thinking about simplifying your life to prepare for a different life. Trying to get out from under all of our modern "benefits" is a chore. Getting rid of credit card balances built up living a "better" life. Although in my case it also was the result of a divorce, and then a lay off resulting in a year of unemployment. Now trying to right that ship (hmm - pun much?) is taking some time and effort. I like what was said earlier about not trying to reduce things in your life, but make your plan from the ground up. Starting from the essentials about what you actually need to live. It really does open your eyes as to what is necessary to really LIVE - not maintain a life - but really live! I look forward to a simpler life - i do believe it will be a far more rewarding life (challenging yes - but that in my opinion also can be rewarding!).

Good luck to everybody living the life (be it weekend sailors or live aboard sailors)! I hope to join you one day!


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## Lin and Larry (Oct 22, 2002)

*Don't wait, there will never be a perfect time to go*

We're getting ready to visit three boatshows in the US in Sept/Oct and I am reading a few forums to learn what potential cruisers are concerned about. Seems nothing has changed since Larry and I set out with $5000 in the bank, a wonderful little 24'4"sail boat and a dream. Everyone back then gave us reasons we shouldn't take off. Everyone said we needed a bigger boat, bigger budget, more equipment, more money. My folks said I was throwing away my chance at a decent career. (Larry didn't get the same as he was already a professional sailor but his folks said he should settle down and start a business and go cruising when he retired.) None of these turned out to be true and we built a life around cruising for over 40 years. Still love sailing too.

Real reasons not to go, you aren't restless. You love the life you are leading. Even then, a year or two of cruising could add to the life you already have.

One thing I can say is, don't put it off too long. Age does become a factor - very few couples can guarentee that one or the other will not suffer from some sort of health problem after they reach 60 or beyond. Very few over 67 have the energy or agility to handle every situation you might encounter (like setting out an extra anchor when it is blowing 50 knots in a rough anchorage.) If you get out cruising earlier you will have the skills, knowledge and confidence to keep going as age affects you.

hope to see some of you in Port Townsend, Newport or Annapolis.
Lin Pardey
Sailing Blog | Nautical Book Authors | Lin & Larry Pardey


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Lin and Larry said:


> One thing I can say is, don't put it off too long. Age does become a factor - very few couples can guarentee that one or the other will not suffer from some sort of health problem after they reach 60 or beyond. Very few over 67 have the energy or agility to handle every situation you might encounter (like setting out an extra anchor when it is blowing 50 knots in a rough anchorage.) If you get out cruising earlier you will have the skills, knowledge and confidence to keep going as age affects you.
> 
> hope to see some of you in Port Townsend, Newport or Annapolis.
> Lin Pardey
> Sailing Blog | Nautical Book Authors | Lin & Larry Pardey


 Can I second this. I took a chance when I was 42 sold up everything. put my career on hold and went cruising for 7 years. Best decision I ever made. Now I am retired [ again ] at age 64 and on my forever boat. However if I did not have the experience built up from the first sojurn aboard I doubt if I would have had the bottle to do it.

As the Pardeys say "Go small, go simple, go now" but do go now, Carpe Diem


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

My wife loves her farm. I love my wife. If I went I'd have to go alone, and I don't want to go that bad.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

As my wife always says, get rid of the woman and keep the boat.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

tomperanteau said:


> As my wife always says, get rid of the woman and keep the boat.


I thought about that, but I was ten years single between the first wife and this one. Probably should have left then, but I didn't. And I hated the loneliness.
Could have sold my 40 acres and raggedy shack, probably bought a tolerable if scruffy cruiser, found a companion somewhere around salt water, but I didn't have the vision. I grew up dead in the center of North America and didn't really see the option until I read about cruising, and by then I was already getting pretty long in the tooth.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

junkrig said:


> by then I was already getting pretty long in the tooth.


I hear ya, and the wife and I getting a bit long, too. We're almost in a rush to get everything ready, and are close to 80% there. House, furniture, one car, storage, all bills and creditors, GONE. The boat is ready at a moment's notice, well-stocked with a lot of dried and canned goods.

We're 50/50 between our boat and our office now. Hopefully we'll get out of here within a year or so. If the economy really tanks, much sooner.

You could still live aboard if you are close to a lake or move close to an ocean.


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## montenido (May 14, 2008)

Hi everybody. I think this is one of the most thought-provoking threads that I have read here on SN. Wow, really good reasons to go now, and equally good reasons not to go yet. I sometimes think about living on my boat while teathered to the dirt. I would have to wait a couple of years for my sons to complete HS. But then, who knows? I am working on my wife. For now, I can see starting with some long charters in the Caribbean, maybe a month or more. If that went well, we could go for longer, perhaps in another tropical area to see what suits us.
BTW, we just returned from a 10-day bareboat in the BVIs aboard a big cat. What a blast. So like most of you, I do feel the pull. I'm beginning to work towards cutting the strings. I agree with much that has been stated here; namely that we spend too much money, time and energy aquiring "things" that have no meaning. My kids went to elementary school in Malibu. Believe me, I know what make believe is like. 
Anyway, thanks for the great opinions, encouragement, and logic. You are all living your dreams.

Cheers, Bill


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## 24seven365 (Aug 13, 2011)

just do it.....stop thinking so much


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

24seven365 said:


> just do it.....stop thinking so much


Sounds like something in a dare, something I heard as a 10-year old in relation to playing baseball in the street when there was a perfectly good sandlot down the street.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Fair enough*



junkrig said:


> My wife loves her farm. I love my wife. If I went I'd have to go alone, and I don't want to go that bad.


Fair enough. We worked out a compromise. As Lin and Larry (Not sure which one is actually posting) mentioned, old age eventually kicks in. When I start thinking I am too old for any more extended sea voyages, we'll put the boat in the half-acre pond in the pasture and build a dock for it, then live aboard while we build the barn. Of course, I was already living aboard when we met so Laura knew the score from the start. So did I and I promised her she could have her horses. That's why we bought the forty acres when we got married.

Sail now, farm later.


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, you have solved the income part that stops most.

BTW, thanks for your service!



vega1860 said:


> I think it comes down to this:
> 
> Health issues are a legitimate concern. You have to be in reasonably good health to go to sea. Having said that, I myself am a 62 year old disabled veteran. You do not have to be young or an athlete.
> 
> But that is just my opinion and not to be taken too seriously


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

When you do get out there there are days when Mango Madness strikes.


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## Jane.Joy (Aug 17, 2011)

*choosing a life*

My husband and I are in the process of selling our "stuff," buying a boat, and beginning a nomadic life. The hard part was breaking free of the INERTIA. Posters on this thread have made different decisions about how/where/when to sail. But, we are all testing the waters and feeling the freedom that comes with CHOOSING - lucky us.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Great choice! You may get to some exotic places and see these guys. Deep up a river in Indonesian Borneo. Camp Leakey, Orangutun Rehabilition Center.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

HeartsContent said:


> Well, you have solved the income part that stops most.


FYI, I did not retire from the military. My disability compensation almost covers two draft beers a day so it does not really solve the problem.

The point I was trying to make is that you do not need to be a young, perfect physical specimen to enjoy the cruising life.



> BTW, thanks for your service!


You are quite welcome.


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## Netteypatch (Apr 11, 2008)

I've had a 'forced' career change, which may actually be the best thing that ever happened to me! Working hard, long hours, more stress than any one person needed....mortgage, car loans, etc...

Now, the job is gone, but so is the stress, the need for the 'reliable car'; the house is going up for sale, and I'm now working in carpentry. As the boat is 'bought-and-paid-for', I'm moving back onboard (I had livedaboard from 1998-2003), and find myself excited at the prospect of returning to a life of more managable, real-life stressors (is the anchor set?, when was the last oil change?,....you know the routine).

Seven years of university, umpteen tens-of-thousands of dollars on education, and the circle has come back around.....!


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