# GEORGE TOWN Help!



## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

NOt sure where I should be posting so apologies in advance.

Greetings and so, so happy to find this Forum!

Looking to cruise the Exumas starting next month. I am told Georgetown is a good spot to be around other cruisers and that this helps keep things cheap. I am hoping to stay 4-5 months.

Does anyone have any good (and realistic) tips on how to stay down there as long as possible as CHEAPLY as possible?

Needs: 
1. Cheap potable water (I try to catch as much as possible but do not want to rely solely on my rain catch). 
2. Ways to make money. 
3. Is this particular cruising community one that likes to barter? (For example, I clean the bottom of your boat in trade for food). 
4. How much can I rely on living off of the sea, wild berries, fruits etc.? 
5. Are there good, local "cheap eats" on land where you can get one big meal that can hold you over for a couple of days? 
Please share any and all tips, ideas etc. I am all ears. I am determined to make this journey a success regardless of my lack of financial resources.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would point out that working in the Bahamas, even for barter, would likely get you into trouble, especially if you step on the toes of local businesses. There are already several divers down there that clean hulls and charge relatively reasonable prices for it. 

As for water... there are some places where the water is free. However, I think having a watermaker makes a lot more sense. You don't say what size/make boat you're going to be doing this on. A hand-powered watermaker like the PowerSurvivor 35 or 40 would probably suffice for a single person. Both of those units can be also powered electrically, but that would require your boat to have some fairly significant passive recharging capability.

Living off the sea is not a great idea. While you can supplement your protein in your diet that way, a lot of the essential nutrients are likely to be missed without a decent supply of other foods. 

If you eat like the natives, you can often supply yourself for relatively little money compared to eating like the tourists. Simple foods, like rice, grains, beans, etc., are pretty cheap and keep a long time. Stocking up on rice, grains, beans and pasta before setting off might be a good idea.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

This is great info. Do you know where there are "Happy Hours"? Does anyone have a list? Is the food good and can one fill their tummy at one of these without being too obvious? Taht sounds like a good resource. A couple of years ago in the Keys we were able to do pretty good to save money for a couple days by stopping at bars and enjoying free nuts, popcorn, chips etc. One bar even did meatballs at their Happy Hour and that really made a positive difference. Also provided a good opportunity to freshen up in the washroom before heading back to the vessel.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

If you're going to be staying in a harbor (like Georgetown!) you should not be counting on a watermaker - they need very clean source water. But you can get cheap/free water in G'town, so no problem there. 

As Sailingdog says, cutting in on the local business folks can be problematic. You can barter with other cruisers, but probably not hull cleaning - water is so clear most folks can do their own. A skill (like refrigeration, diesel mechanic) is far more likely to be in demand. But, in my experience, its easier to trade for other boat maintenance tasks with other cruisers than for food. Food is pricey in the Bahamas, because everything needs to be imported. Bring what you'd want with you from the States - invest in a vacuum-packer; buy (cheese, for example) in huge blocks and shrink-wrap it yourself. Paper products are also really pricey, again, bring what you want from the States. In G'town you can find whatever you want, unlike some of the smaller islands of the exumas where it simply isn't available, but you'll pay for it. Do like Sailingdog says and plan to eat like a local if you want to keep your costs somewhat down.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I must first and foremostly thank you for this great and fantastic information. There is some very helpful data here. I definitely see myself heading for the Jumentos as part of my plan and maybe I can stretch this thing out even longer than I had imagined. I will be growing tomatoes and doing fresh sprouts on my boat. Last year I did 5 days of just rainwater and sprouts (alfalfa, mung bean, clover, radish, pea shoots) supplemented by a couple spoonfuls of canned tuna each day. I will also have a breadmaker on board. 

Are there any cruisers out there that have a list of the various Happy Hours and locations? If there is a good number I can potentially alternate which ones I attend, wear a hat one day, none the other, shades one day, no shades w/ baseball hat the next etc. 

I am getting pumped. I was also just turned onto a great book called: SPENDING NOTHING AND LIVING HIGH IN THE BAHAMAS by Ron Allen. There are some really great ideas in here. 

Some that stood out were: 
1. Finding things on remote beaches to trade and barter with - shells, bottles, old shoes, buttons. You would be surprised at the things you can find whilst beachcombing. 
2. When you find bottles they often have refreshing rainwater in them - an easy way to get necessary fluids into the system. 
3. Taking pieces of driftwood, coating them with Elmer's glue and decorating them with the smaller, pretty shells that one finds on remote beaches. Mr. Allen stated that they would trade these for food with other cruisers.


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## BGallinger (Oct 14, 2009)

Eyrka...is the water at Georgetown really so bad that a watermaker is redundant?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I am not seeing happy hour as a viable food source in the Bahamas


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BGallinger said:


> Eyrka...is the water at Georgetown really so bad that a watermaker is redundant?


Believe what Eryka meant is that you can get water free at georgetown, so the watermaker is redundant...not that the water there was so bad as to require one.

BTW, using a watermaker in a public, civilized harbor is one very good way to kill it quickly.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

A friend said the Piece of Plenty had Happy Hour 2-3 times a week and he was always able to get stuffed enough that he was not hungry for a day. He also said that as you hang out if you get friendly with folks and tell good jokes you can end up having 3-4 beers bought for you!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I also agree that going to happy hours to eat the free bar munchies is probably not a great way to go about this...



> Some that stood out were:
> 1. Finding things on remote beaches to trade and barter with - shells, bottles, old shoes, buttons. You would be surprised at the things you can find whilst beachcombing.


Most things you find on beaches won't be worth much unless you add value to them in some way. Sea glass is a perfect example... while, by itself it isn've very valuable, if you make it into items, like jewelry, you can often make a fairly significant profit on it.


> 2. When you find bottles they often have refreshing rainwater in them - an easy way to get necessary fluids into the system.


Personally, I think it is really quite stupid to drink anything out of a bottle you've found. You have no idea what the bottle has been used for, or what contaminants could be in it.



> 3. Taking pieces of driftwood, coating them with Elmer's glue and decorating them with the smaller, pretty shells that one finds on remote beaches. Mr. Allen stated that they would trade these for food with other cruisers.


This is an example of adding value, but I don't see that being all that valuable a way of making money. BTW, you need to be careful as some of the very pretty shells, particularly the cone shells, can contain a mollusk with a very nasty sting. While most are no worse than a bee sting, some can be potentially fatal. This is one species of cone shell below:


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

The friend that enjoys that Happy Hours also said that he is able to eat VERY WELL on whelks. He said they are all over Stocking Island and that no one takes advantage. He said last year he was able to harvest a bushel basket worth. Some he ate and about half he was able to trade with other cruisers after he prepared them for them. This got him homemade breads, a pie and some choice cuts of meat. He also said he spent a month in the Jumentos and spent NOTHING. Not a dime. He said there were lobsters conch and fish all over the place. Basically jump off the boat with your spear gun and you had an instant meal!


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Good thread!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just curious, but what kind of boat do you plan on cruising the Bahamas in?


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Here are some excerpts from the Ron Allen book - SPENDING NOTHING AND LIVING HIGHH IN THE BAHAMAS! Incredible stuff here and great ideas.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I have a 1976 Bristol Sloop Cruiser. LOA is 32' with a Draft of 3.5'.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Ant fellow cruiser brothers or sisters have any more tips for staying the EXumas / Exuma area for as long as possible with VERY LITTLE money?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, some of the things suggested in that book, like mooching food at happy hours, is the type of behavior that reflects poorly on all cruisers and makes them unwelcome in places. While I understand the desire to cruise for very little money-*if you have to mooch food at happy hour to feed yourself, maybe you should not be cruising at all. *

Vagrant-like behavior by one or two people tends to reflect poorly on the rest of the cruising community as a whole. There's cruising on a budget, and then there is being a boat-borne vagabond.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

My friend is a good guy and he said the bartender said hello to him everytime. He is a real funny guy that tells good jokes. They liked having him around and never had an issue. He said they also did not seem to mind him using the washroom to freshen up. The bartender saw him do it a couple times and made no comment. No one wants to make anyone look bad but if a place is having a happy hour and you make people happy then the house snacks are a nice perk.

Ron Allen did months in the Bahamas on $300.00. I will be in the Exumas the second week of November. I plan on staying until mid-April. 

I am stocking:
50 pounds brown rice
50 pounds mix of red and brown lentils
50 pounds granola
100 Mason jars with pre-made meals - combination of meat and vegetables

I grow tomatoes and do alot of sprouting.

I will have $1,000.00 cold, hard US dollars.

I fish. I have a spear gun. I will harvest whelks, coconuts, guineps, sea grapes. I will network with locals and ask them where fruit trees are.

I KNOW I CAN DO THIS, DO IT CHEAP AND NOT OFFEND ANYONE.


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

Don't forget that a cruising permit for the Bahamas will cost you something like $300.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> ...He also said he spent a month in the Jumentos and spent NOTHING. Not a dime...


He's pulling your leg - the Jumentos are basically uninhabited - there's no where to spend money, nothing to spend it ON!

But I agree with Sailingdog - excessive cheapness will not endear you to the locals or make the cruisers that follow you welcome. The Bahamians are lovely people, generous and welcoming, but if you're planning to visit their country and take (fish, etc) but give nothing in return, ... well, that's quite an abuse of hospitality, what do you expect?


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Fishing permits? Non-Bahamians aren't permitted to take certain amounts, certain seasons, or with IIRC, spears.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> My friend is a good guy and he said the bartender said hello to him everytime. He is a real funny guy that tells good jokes. They liked having him around and never had an issue. He said they also did not seem to mind him using the washroom to freshen up. The bartender saw him do it a couple times and made no comment. No one wants to make anyone look bad but if a place is having a happy hour and you make people happy then the house snacks are a nice perk.
> 
> Ron Allen did months in the Bahamas on $300.00. I will be in the Exumas the second week of November. I plan on staying until mid-April.
> 
> ...


You'll be there FIVE months. That means you'll average 10 lbs of rice, lentils and granola per month, and 20 pre-made meals... though likely you'll eat the pre-made meals first... combined with the tomatoes and seafood, it sounds like you'll have enough food. A 1/3 lb. of rice, lentils and granola each per day is a fair amount of food. 

I wouldn't recommend taking all the fruit from the trees, as the locals probably harvest the fruit as well... and they're not your trees. 



> I will have $1,000.00 cold, hard US dollars.


You will be required to pay a $150 cruising permit fee. Since you're going to be there over three months, you'll need to purchase a fishing permit extension for another $150. This will leave you $700 for your five months there or abut $140 per month. 

Be aware that you are only allowed to use rod/reel or hawaiian sling-spear guns, fish traps, spears and nets are ILLEGAL, and using SCUBA gear to catch seafood of any sort is prohibited.

From Noonsite on the Bahamas:



> *Bag limits apply as follows:*
> 
> *Lobster or crawfish*: 10 tails per VESSEL at any time (closed season 1st April to 31st July). Egg bearing females are protected. Minimum size limits for Lobster and crawfish, 3 3/8 inch carapace length or 6 inch tail.
> 
> ...





> I KNOW I CAN DO THIS, DO IT CHEAP AND NOT OFFEND ANYONE.


I wasn't suggesting that you would offend anyone, but wanted to make sure you took care to not come across as a vagrant or vagabond. This would make it harder on all cruisers in general.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I will catch what I can eat. I am not a pig. I will also go on garbage patrol with my friend. He said that twice a week for four months he would pick up garbage in and around George Town. He said alot of people appreciated his efforts. I will join him when he gets there around Thanksgiving. We were also going to approach the local school to see if they wanted guest "teachers for the day" as he knows fluent Portugese and I am a graduate of the French Culinary Institute '01 in Classic Culinary Arts and Classic Pastry Arts. I am tired of the restaurant grind and just want to be an anonymous adventurer for awhile until I am ready to deal again with the rat race.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I appreciate all of the helpful and useful information. I also plan on doing some camping. If anyone will be down this season let me know. Just call FREEBOY on your VHF on Channel 16 and we will come up with a plan!


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Also, if any parents are looking for a night on the town I am available to babysit and cook in exchange for being able to eat and take the leftovers (you provide the food). FReddy on S/V Freeboy. I will be monitoring channels 16 and 68.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Quick question - where or how does one get rid of waste when at anchor in George Town?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi Free Boy

Check on the current rules before taking any Conch - I know that they had banned visiting boats from taking Conch.

If you are looking for a marketable skill the ability to use a sewing machine to repair sails biminis awinings etc is always in demand.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I do have a sewing machine. Invaluable when you need it. This board is really helping me out!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Over the side*



birdpepper said:


> Quick question - where or how does one get rid of waste when at anchor in George Town?


Unfortunately, most people just pump over the side which explains why the water quality is often pretty dubious. If you have a holding tank, you can head out to open sea when needed and dump there (if you have a pump to do so).

George Town was the only place we saw in the Bahamas that had free water. The library there is terrific, you can join for $4 I think it was and either take books out or trade for ones you already have. Try not to get stuck just in GT, there are lots of places nearby that are fun, not crowded and interesting.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Is there a Cruiser's Net?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

birdpepper said:


> I KNOW I CAN DO THIS, DO IT CHEAP AND NOT OFFEND ANYONE.


Alexander Supertramp thought the same thing.

Seriously, I admire and advocate the low-buck approach, but don't become "that guy"- the mooch, the sailor/tourist/hobo that everyone avoids simply because they don't want to be branded as guilty by association. "That guy" can poison the locals' impression of an entire community- how do you think the image of the "ugly american' came to be? It was because of "that guy"


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

I think your friend's good will may start to run out when he brings more people to mooch off of happy hour. Otherwise your jokes better be funnier than his.

I've lived on the cheap as a ski bum but that is a different environment. Others around might be trying to live frugally. When the free snacks and drinks dry up, happy hour can get expensive. If you want to live cheap try not drinking, period, the one or two drinks you may buy would be a day or twos worth of food. Even drinking on the boat is a luxury. Think what a boat repair could do to your budget. I've been to Georgetown, seems like it could get small very fast.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Deleted Personal attack on nationality in violation of Forum Rules- JH Moderator

But, I have encountered some very nice ones. I have money, I just want the challenge of surviving on a limited budget for as long as I can.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Yeah, birdpepper, I can see how you might be able to get by on your wit, sparkling personality and amiable laid -back charm.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I am sorry but it felt like you were making fun of me. I am a cool guy and I can make good food too!


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## Snboard976 (Aug 10, 2008)

Free water in Nassau with purchase of gas at the station in between the bridges. Stretch it to Georgetown where there is free water at the dinghy dock.

Make a spear for fishing (it is legal). Buy the mask, weight belt and fins. Big Conchs are also legal. Always troll a lure, we had more Mahi than we could eat in April.

There may be laws there, but I never saw them enforced. The one thing the Bahamas is not is Cheap.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Personal attack deleted- JH SailNet Moderator


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

I don't think he was making fun of you until this



bljones said:


> Yeah, birdpepper, I can see how you might be able to get by on your wit, sparkling personality and amiable laid -back charm.


:laugher

If you have the money why not spend it while down there? I met someone that watched the boat I sailed on when the owners were not around and did other projects as well for extra money, it seems like he struggled to get by. It is easier to cut out drinking and live frugally then spend what it takes to get by. If you've got some cooking skills, (Are you a Chef or a cook?) this seems like your strongest asset. Offer to prepare meals for people in the marina in exchange for meals or food. It may go farther than the standup routine during happy hour.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

birdpepper said:


> Deleted attack on nationality in violation of Forum RulesBut, I have encountered some very nice ones. I have money, I just want the challenge of surviving on a limited budget for as long as I can.


As a Canadian, I'm not so sure that I would want to meet someone who insults an entire people after only meeting a few individuals!


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Chef. I was the Executive Chef at a restuarant in Southern France for a number of years and then New York City.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

birdpepper said:


> Chef. I was the Executive Chef at a restuarant in Southern France for a number of years and then New York City.


Sounds like your meal ticket then.

In the mean time I would suggest not insulting Canadians, they could be your meal ticket as well. Your reputation of cheap Canadians must come from the waiters you've worked with. [email protected] now i've done it.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Pardon me but I was attacked first and the Canadian in question also took a jab at Americans.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

jephotog said:


> Sounds like your meal ticket then.
> 
> In the mean time I would suggest not insulting Canadians, they could be your meal ticket as well. Your reputation of cheap Canadians must come from the waiters you've worked with. [email protected] now i've done it.


I'll forgive you  because the rest of your point is very well taken.

I also agree with the concern raised by many of the other posters. Poor behaviour or the perception that one is "mooching" can give all cruisers a bad reputation. Alas, if the OP is willing to insult all Canadians, I am not confident.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

birdpepper said:


> Pardon me but I was attacked first and the Canadian in question also took a jab at Americans.


So 2 wrongs make a right? 

The nice thing about cruising in BC is that I have had the pleasure of meeting many Americans. We've made lots of friends and have good memories. With that in mind, I won't tar all Americans with the same brush just because you are doing your best to live up to the stereotype of the "The Ugly American".


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

birdpepper said:


> the Canadian in question also took a jab at Americans.


 You need to read the book "Ugly American" that is what he was quoting. If you have been abroad and read the book you will understand. Its been a while but I remember it as more of a story of Americans waving the dollar not mooching them. Still I have been tempted to fly the Canadian flag while traveling.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Birdpepper-

It would be nice if you didn't insult BLJ or the other Canadians on the forum here. *He was just reinforcing my opinion that you DO NOT WANT TO BECOME THE PERSON SEEN AS A MOOCH... and it was beginning to sound an awful lot like you were headed that way.* Especially given the way you were talking about going to happy hours and wearing different outfits so as to not be as easily recognized... it leaves a foul taste. From your previous post, you said:



birdpepper said:


> ....*Are there any cruisers out there that have a list of the various Happy Hours and locations? If there is a good number I can potentially alternate which ones I attend, wear a hat one day, none the other, shades one day, no shades w/ baseball hat the next etc. *


That sounds like you're intending to be a mooch...why else would you feel the need to disguise yourself???

There is a stereotype of the "RUDE AMERICAN". I've seen it enough times to want to make sure I'm not taken as one. You might want to consider that free-loading off the happy hour bar snacks is really not a good way to go about getting your nutrition or making the locals happy. Bar snacks tend to be relatively unhealthy for you-high in sodium, often high in fats, and low in real nutritional value.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

SD, while your last post is a bit too long to quote, it says *exactly *what I was thinking.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sailjunkie said:


> SD, while your last post is a bit too long to quote, it says *exactly *what I was thinking.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Chef,

I agree that trying to make happy hour munchies a significant portion of your sustainance is not a great idea for all the reasons cited above.

One thought that occurred to me is to approach some of the bigger restaurants in GT, such as St Francis Resort and the pink hotel in town (the name of which escapes me at the moment). If your resume stands up (with all due respect) perhaps you could swap a special weekend for them with your own menu using locally available product for some boat provisions for you. You work directly with the locals and by using barter could well fly under the radar of local work permits.

My thinking and worth every penny you pay for it. *grin*

You might also schmooze with chefs on any big motor yachts that come through, swapping access to their food locker for cooking for the boat to give the chef a day off.

Clean up and dress nicely and you might eat better and cheaper than hitting the happy hours.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

These are all very good points and ones that I have already thought of. I will be traveling with full chef uniform if it can come into play and I will mention it to the local establishments- even if I am offering a free cooking course. It would be my way of giving back to the community that I will be staying in.

As previously stated, my goal is the challenge of getting out there and living on very little. Basically, living counter to the capitalistic system that I have been a part of. No Gucci loafers, $200.00 bottles of wine at dinner or $20,000.00 watches.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Who is going to be in the George Town area mid November to April? It would be great to make some friends now and get advice from George Town veterans so that I start out on the best possible footing.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

birdpepper,

You will not make friends in GT if you are perceived as a moocher. A few years ago a cruiser was banned from beach church because he was such a moocher. There are muffins etc. at beach church. At happy hours he would fill Tupperware tubs with the food that cruisers bring to share. He finally moved on. The cruising community is a very small world in GT, the word will spread quickly and moochers will not find any friends. Also any overt attempts at working will give you a bad rep as it affects all the cruisers who try very hard to support the local economy. I suggest that if you really want to do the Bahamas "on the cheap" that you stay away from GT or any of the settlements. Stick to the uninhabited spots and keep under the radar. Live on fish and conch, it can be done but don't freeload off the cruisers or locals.

Beach party on an uninhabited cay.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Vasco said:


> birdpepper,
> 
> You will not make friends in GT if you are perceived as a moocher. A few years ago a cruiser was banned from beach church because he was such a moocher. There are muffins etc. at beach church. At happy hours he would fill Tupperware tubs with the food that cruisers bring to share. He finally moved on. The cruising community is a very small world in GT, the word will spread quickly and moochers will not find any friends. Also any overt attempts at working will give you a bad rep as it affects all the cruisers who try very hard to support the local economy. I suggest that if you really want to do the Bahamas "on the cheap" that you stay away from GT or any of the settlements. Stick to the uninhabited spots and keep under the radar. Live on fish and conch, it can be done but don't freeload off the cruisers or locals.
> 
> Beach party on an uninhabited cay.


Thanks Vasco... always good to get more opinions on a controversial subject... and much along the lines of what I was thinking.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Last winter when I first got into Georgetown I was drinking at the Chat & Chill with some buddies. I was about to buy a round for our group when this young guy who was hanging around us figured he would "mooch" a free beer this way. The bartender, I can't remember his name now, knew better and didn't get him one. Another Cruiser who I had met explained to me that this "Moocher" had a reputation for doing just that. Most of the people I met in Gtown were fixed income/ low income folks and had little to no sympathy for the no income/no means people. This was probably because they are paying their own way. You only need to look at the prices in the market to understand that.


To high-lite this, I was amazed when I heard over the VHF a conversation where one boat was inviting the crew of another over for sundowners when the host tossed out this little gem " bring your own beer or bring your wallet".


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

So, Vasco, are you saying that all of the cruisers in George Town are benefitting the community? You do not even know me and you are throwing stones. I have stated a myriad of things that I plan on doing while there. Are you interested on going on garbage detail with me and my buddy twice a week? Are you willing to teach local folks / restaurants new cooking techniques? I have admitted that I am gathering information and educating myself. I have read many books on the area and have a few more to read. I am also signed up to take part in the Bahamas Tourism "People to People" program. I will not be going to the church on the beach and taking muffins or whatever else is consumed at Food church. I have detailed what I am bringing in tersm of food and feel that between those items, what I grow and what I will catch / pick / harvest /barter for that I will be able to sustain myself on a very limited budget. I hope I am wrong but I am feeling and/or sensing a bit of underlying elitism is many of these posts and am wondering how that is justified. It seems to me that I will not be the only one living on the cheap. It seems to ne that aside from the location and beauty of the area that it is frequented by ALOT of cheap people that pump the smallest amount possible into the local economy. The "Happy Hours" will still happen and the free food will be consumed en masse and in haste I am sure.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Brezzin said:


> To high-lite this, I was amazed when I heard over the VHF a conversation where one boat was inviting the crew of another over for sundowners when the host tossed out this little gem " bring your own beer or bring your wallet".


This is not unusual although I have never heard of it being put so bluntly. The convention on visiting other boats is to *always* bring your own drinks. That's why you see all those cooler bags. You usually ask if you should bring a small dish of something too. This is because provisions are limited on a boat, not because cruisers are cheap. Usually you don't have to tell others to "bring their own". Most know the convention and follow it.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

birdpepper,

Just some friendly advice. Cruisers come from the whole spectrum of society. In the Bahamas we all get along, from the Oyster owner to the young couple in a Grampian 26. When we are out cruising we are all essentially "in the same boat". We rely on each other and everyone helps everyone else. There is no pecking order as to what one did in one's working life, actually a diesel mechanic is worth ten brain surgeons in the cruising community.  There is no "elitism". For one who has not been there you seem to have a fixed view of what's out there. Lighten up, go cruising.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Vasco said:


> This is not unusual although I have never heard of it being put so bluntly. The convention on visiting other boats is to *always* bring your own drinks. That's why you see all those cooler bags. You usually ask if you should bring a small dish of something too. This is because provisions are limited on a boat, not because cruisers are cheap. Usually you don't have to tell others to "bring their own". Most know the convention and follow it.


I completely agree that it's SOP to bring your own. Thats why I was stunned when I heard it put that way.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Thank you Vasco. You seem like a pretty good guy that means well. 

What is the best way to offload waste (food and human)? I want to be respectful and know the lay of the land before I am there. Will you be down soon Vasco? And yes, I know that if I were invited to another boat that I wsould bring an appetizer and my own beverage. I did forget to mention that although I might not be spending alot of money or leaving with alot but I will be stocked up with wine. I am bringing 10 cases from cellar. I also home brew and make a wicked ale.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

birdpepper,

They now have a pump-out boat in GT. So far it's schedule has been spotty. The cost is about $10. There is a dumpster on the Government dock for garbage. No charge for this. Water is available at the dinghy dock. This is RO water and paid for by Exuma Market, the spot where most of the cruisers buy their provisions. I'll be there January or February. I start my winter cruising in December and take my time getting south.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Please report back as you go along. I'm interested in how you do with the tomato. I'll be surprised if it survives. I've been able to keep a few herbs and an orchid going but not much else. Anything at all salt-sensitive doesn't do well.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Any news on the new moorings they plan on putting in? Do you think those will be mandatory?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

The moorings are in. They put a few in Hole 1. That's about it. They are not mandatory and you can anchor anywhere you want except in the main shipping channel.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

GREAT information. Man, this is helpful. Thank you Vasco. As I am by myself I do not see myself having an over abundance of non-organic waste. And, let's face it, we all do a few #1's whilst swimming / snorkeling / hunting and even sometimes a #2 in the bush or in water depending on distance from dinghy, land or vessel!  or uke


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

What about oil? Or do I just keep that on the boat?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Take it home with you.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Was that serious or another elitist outburst?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Freeboy,

I may be a moderator, but I am also a member so am allowed an opinion too. I am generally more cautious with my opinions as I am a mod... but sometimes not so much. I fear this may be the not so much.

As liveaboards & cruisers, we have struggled and sacrificed a lot to make our lives what they are. Granted, I could have (and maybe should have) bought a cheaper boat or done other things more frugally. My mistakes. But they are my mistakes and I have lived with them and paid for them. 

I am not alone. THere are a lot of people that have really sacrificed a lot in their lives to get to where they are. Like myself, they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Cruising was a dream they saved every penny for and sacrificed a large home for, or nice cars, or a more comfortable retirement (or retirement savings).

I read your post. And if I have misinterpreted it, please correct me. But I have read through it a couple of times and still come to the same conclusion: that you are trying to make a life of cruising at the expense of others good will. And that's not right.

I am certainly not suggesting that you (or anyone) need go to the Bahamas, Keys/S Florida, or carrib and stay at every marina and buy at every bar. Pfft. I don't and would not. That would take the enjoyment out of it. But that you have suggested taking 10 cases of wine while snipping food off the open bar and other cruiser festivities, and taking jobs away from bahamians (that are very impoverished, by the way)... well, that whole thing stinks. That is why they have very strict labor laws in the Bahamas, to prevent just that sort of thing. Same for other countries, including ours. 

Put the cash (for gawd's sakes, more than $1000) together and go over there and be frugal but not thoughtless and give more to the culture than you take. Enjoy the scenery and the people and pay your way as you go. If you want to give of your time as a chef, do it without pay and to help out the community and expect nothing in return and ask for nothing. 

Go cruising and doing it cheaply is one thing. Being cheap is another. 

My opinions,

Brian


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> Was that serious or another elitist outburst?


Geez. I thought I was sensitive.

Yes - take your oil home with you. There is one place in the Exumas that will take used oil to mix with diesel to stretch their own fuel for electricity. There are a couple of places in Nassau that will take it for recycling. Other than those there are no facilities to dispose of oil, fuel, or antifreeze. You brought it in so you take it out.

The way you lash out at people who give you good information, regardless of how brief, and your predatory approach to taking from others (like harvesting happy hour) is quite offputting.

If you really were an Executive Chef you should understand the economics of bringing customers in and the expectations of civil behavior by customers.

I'll be pleased to not share an anchorage with you until you check your attitude at the door.

Auspicious out.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Where is the video about S/V Pestilence? It was just posted a day or two ago. Quite parallel to this thread at the moment.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

birdpepper,

I've put you on my ignore list. It seems you don't have any capacity for polite discourse.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I have stated in my posts that this is nota long termthing for me. I just wanta break and the challenge. I have the wine so why not bring it???? I had some ideas and thoughts in the beginning and now they are changing.

Here is my new mindset/outlook:

 I am going to bring alot more than $1K. Besides, I have an ATM card.
 I am going to still do garbage pickup around town twicea week with my buddy.
 I am still going to offer my culinary skills to locals that are interested in their homes and/or businesses. To raise the bar I will also offer to pick up one family a week and bring them to my vessel for a home cooked chef's dinner.
 I will NOT pump any waste whatsoever into the local waters. I will gladly pay for pump out and a mooring. In fact, I would have it no other way. If, for some reason the pump out boat's schedule seems erratic I will pull my hook and get out in the high seas an release waste responsibly.
 I will go on land and drink with the locals and others gladly paying for my drink.
 I will buy provisions at the local markets. Besides, the thought of living on sprouts, brown rice, lentils and whatever I procure from the sea is no longer interesting. Hell, I am young still. I want to have fun. I do not want to live like a pennypinching tight ass. 
 I like to Dive so I will go out with the local dive shop Dive Exuma and gladly pay their rate.
 I will eat at least two meals on land a week (maybe more) at the local establishments.

Now, my goal is to show that I am going to be the CRUISER that everyone remembers, thinks is the coolest and has the most fun. By the time I am done they are going to start kicking out the cheap bums that squat! 

NOW I AM ON A REAL MISSION.

CARPE DIEM!!!!!!!!!!


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Sounds good man!

This is the problem with forums, it's difficult to express intent fully. So much is lost when trying to converse through written word sometimes.

We will be down in Moe Hill this x-mas, maybe we'll cross paths! I'll keep an eye out for Freeboy!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> I have stated in my posts that this is nota long termthing for me. I just wanta break and the challenge. I have the wine so why not bring it???? I had some ideas and thoughts in the beginning and now they are changing.
> 
> Here is my new mindset/outlook:
> 
> ...


That certainly seems a better plan and more realistic than the other one.

Brian


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Vasco said:


> birdpepper,
> 
> I've put you on my ignore list. It seems you don't have any capacity for polite discourse.


Vasco, take it easy man! Jeez, you Canadians!


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> Now, my goal is to show that I am going to be the CRUISER that everyone remembers, thinks is the coolest and has the most fun. By the time I am done they are going to start kicking out the cheap bums that squat!
> 
> NOW I AM ON A REAL MISSION.
> 
> CARPE DIEM!!!!!!!!!!


You would've been "the cruiser that everyone remembers" with your first plan too, but for the wrong reason. The current approach sounds much, much better. Enjoy.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

I started with an idea and thanks to information recieved here and a couple thyings I figured out I think I have a better plan. On Christmas I am going to buy 50 presents, have them wrapped and put on a Santa Claus outfit and walk through the village. The first 50 kids that come to me will get a neat wrapped gift from my sack! I will come up witth more ideas. Now, I feel I am on the right path. Why prove taht I can be cheap when I do not need to.

SPREAD THE WEALTH CRUISERS. SPEND MONEY AT THE LOCAL BUSINESSES. DO NOIT BE CHEAP AND RESPECT THE ENVIRONMENT!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

birdpepper said:


> I started with an idea and thanks to information recieved here and a couple thyings I figured out I think I have a better plan. On Christmas I am going to buy 50 presents, have them wrapped and put on a Santa Claus outfit and walk through the village. The first 50 kids that come to me will get a neat wrapped gift from my sack! I will come up witth more ideas. Now, I feel I am on the right path. Why prove taht I can be cheap when I do not need to.
> 
> SPREAD THE WEALTH CRUISERS. SPEND MONEY AT THE LOCAL BUSINESSES. DO NOIT BE CHEAP AND RESPECT THE ENVIRONMENT!


So where are you sailing her down from? Are you in Annapolis or where? Where's the boat? Sounds like you are going to have fun.

Brian


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Your credibility continues to decline. Sorry buddy. Don't believe you. I don't think you are a chef, I don't think you own a boat, and I don't think anyone will ever see you in the Bahamas. I do think you are 16 years old.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Insults - again. Some of you folks are over sensitive. I guess I will just be a guy with a boat having a good time and I am fine with that!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

birdpepper said:


> ...I guess I will just be a guy with a boat having a good time and I am fine with that!


Birdpepper,

Where abouts do you sail now? What is your planned route for getting to the Bahamas?

You may be able to cheap-out in the Bahamas, but you have to get there first.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> Birdpepper,
> 
> Where abouts do you sail now? What is your planned route for getting to the Bahamas?
> 
> You may be able to cheap-out in the Bahamas, but you have to get there first.


No Answer? Must be time to take out the trash or brush his teeth.

Brian


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Wow, this thread stopped abruptly?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

LandLocked66c said:


> Wow, this thread stopped abruptly?


I figured my work here was done once he saw the potential errors of his ways and repented, so I put away my "ghost of cruisers past" costume.

Either that or he lost interest after compiling the long list of what it takes to become the "coolest cruiser ever".


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

> No Answer? Must be time to take out the trash or brush his teeth.
> 
> Brian


Wow! Not just your quote above, but this whole thread. Wow!!!!


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## exumabahamas (Oct 22, 2010)

Dearest Bird Pepper or S/V FREE BOY.......you need to take the very nice advice of your fellow cruisers! I myself will report you to Immigrations / Police, CID / or Customs....you can pull your life style ways in the USA, but don't ever try pulling it in GGT....It is against the law in the Bahamas to sell, barter, or trade goods or services for any personal gains....this is also stamped in your passport when you clear Immigrations!.
PS..We have Bahamian people that sweep the streets in GGT, pick up garbage and we have garbage trucks, big ones.......don't join your older man friend with the beard on the bridge to pick up trash!
PPSS.....If you come to GGT change the name of your boat....
Thank you for your time.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Oh, snap!


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

LOLZ! How awesome is that! LMAO


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## hasuehounds (Jun 27, 2008)

*cheap,ha not exumas*

Hi
We pass thru gtown each winter. There is little work there. I do know your cruising permt doesn't allow u to sell or render services for payment. There is a very large well connected cruisers community. can't say on living off the land,don't think that's possible,the locals don't even grow their own food,everything comes by mail boat..cheap rate also aren't there either.average cheap meal is $15 at peace n plenty. Water is free at dingy dock behind market,bring. Jerk cans .like all the Bahamas gtowns come on hard times,the. Bank n airp9rt are the bigger employers,again only local. I suggest u find a crusing guide unless ur well provisioned n have a few bucks to buy things u didn't bring ur not going to have a easy time. Or cheap time..
Go to the abacos. The nothern Bahamas u might have better luck w/work,bartering and so on ...
Btw how are ur going to manage the crusing permit fee,it'd $150 for boats under 40feet,$300 for those over 40ft
Yes they do check.

Nothing now a days is cheap or free on a boat
Sorry,
Kathleen
Sv legacy



birdpepper said:


> NOt sure where I should be posting so apologies in advance.
> 
> Greetings and so, so happy to find this Forum!
> 
> ...


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

SVAuspicious said:


> I'll be pleased to not share an anchorage with you until you check your attitude at the door.


That makes two of us.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

LandLocked66c said:


> Vasco, take it easy man! Jeez, you Canadians!


Why don't you lay off the generalizations?

I've already called out Birdpepper over the same thing. From what I've seen of the Canadians on this forum, we don't tar all Americans with the same brush.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

sailjunkie said:


> Why don't you lay off the generalizations?
> 
> I've already called out Birdpepper over the same thing. From what I've seen of the Canadians on this forum, we don't tar all Americans with the same brush.


Mark, I'm pretty sure that LL66c was being very tongue-in-cheek given the earlier (moderated and edited) exchange in this thread.. as goofy as these emoticons can be, they do help indicate the tone/intent... he was kidding.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

Faster said:


> Mark, I'm pretty sure that LL66c was being very tongue-in-cheek given the earlier (moderated and edited) exchange in this thread.. as goofy as these emoticons can be, they do help indicate the tone/intent... he was kidding.


You might be right, and if so, then my bad.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

sailjunkie said:


> You might be right, and if so, then my bad.


Yes, just playing...


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Here is an update folks. I just returned from 8 days in Georgetown as I wanted to research where I will be based out of for five months. All of the locals were very helpful as it pertained to my questions. I had a long conversation with the Harbour Master, a Mr. Elvis Ferguson. I have reserved a mooring right off of an area called "Volleyball Beach". The local markets "Exuma Markets" and "Shop Rite" were well stocked. John Marshall Liquors had everything you could need along with high end champagne, wines and single malt scotches. Another liquor store just outside of the main part of town called BGS also had a very solid selection (John Marshall and BGS have the same owners). The Peace and Plenty hotel is closed but re-opening December 7th. I had very good local meals at: Eddy's Edgewater, Cheater's, Santana's (on Little Exuma), Bamboo Bistrot, Charlie's at Fish Fry, Augusta Bay and Arlene's food truck. Also, the "Deli" behind the Shell Station had greaty local dishes. There was a cruiser on S/V Wind Minstrel who was supposedly "kicked out" of the Bahamas due to some new legal loophole in Canadian visas. 

In speaking with many of the locals there is a very STRONG movement to go after any cruisers that "pump out" in the harbour. Elvis was very serious on this matter. So, if you do find yourself in Georgetown this season do not pump out unless you want a night in the local jail on top of a fine and the possible taking of your vessel. "KB" at the proprietor of Chat and Chill was also not happy with cruisers that pump out. He said it has hurt his business because less people want to swim in the water around his beachfront bar/grill. He also said he is tired of the cheap cruisers that do not spend any money even though they smuggle cocktails onto his beach in their own containers. He seems very fed up so the "hobo" / "squatting" approach does not seem welcome any longer in this area. 

I also donated $500.00 to one of the local "Junkanoo" teams called "THE MUSICAL YOUTHS". I had beers with their Captain, he took me to their costume shack and I felt like it would be the right thing to do. The economy is tough down there right now. I guess the Four Seasons Resort became an all inclusive Sandals and these people do not leave the Sandals compound (thus, no benefit to the local businesses).

I will say that my business was appreciated and I feel that I have made some legitimate friends and acquaintances. They appreciated my questions and research. 

I also met Principal Rolle from the Anglican School. I am shipping down a couple old PC's that I do not need as the school is in need.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Also, I was told that the "Cruiser's Net" which takes place every morning at 8am EST on Channel 68 will be heavily monitored along with side channel banter to see which vessels are bartering, exchanging services etc. It seems with the economy having really suffered in Georgetown the last 2 years that they are now cracking down on things that they gave alot of leniancy to.

Back to radio, Channel 16 is for local businesses. Most people monitor Channels 16 and 68. Alot of the cab drivers use Channel 14.

For fuel, hail "Sugar One" at Exuma Docking Services (or just boat over there).

You can also get fuel at Minns Water Sports located under the bridge as you go into Lake Victoria which is also referred to as "The Pond". There is free water at the Dinghy Dock behind Exuma Markets.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

ROUTE:

Miami to Bimini across to the Berry Islands down past Nassau and stright shot down the Exuma cays to Georgetown.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

The pump out boat is owned and run by Mr. Smith. It will be very active and visible this season. He launches off of the boat ramp across from Eddy's in Lake Victoria and then goes out into the harbour. I do not recall the pricing but it sounded reasonable to me. For the real cheap cruisers they might want to find another location this year. There are also locals that feel that there should be a minimal fee for garbage removal. Right now I am told that it is free. The person that filled me in on garbage said to me, "Look. You have 300+ boats here and everyday they are putting garbage in the dumpster. It is alot of garbage and helps fill the landfill. Everyone on land has to pay for garbage removal so they should too."


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## swiftbreeze (Oct 26, 2010)

Birdpepper,
I am coming from a completely neutral standpoint here, so please take no offense to my following suggestions.

It seems that some of what you said two weeks ago was, at best, 'lost in translation'. As a vote of confidence, I recommend posting a picture of your flight stub, as well as a picture of Bahamas passport stamp.

--
I don't want to start a battle on proving whether he took the trip, but these two simple photos would sure help *me* feel a little more confident.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Here is the stamp. I do not have a flight stub as I flew private from Florida.


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## swiftbreeze (Oct 26, 2010)

The image is valid.

--

birdpepper, enjoy Volleyball Beach.

good luck & fair winds!


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

What do you need to feel confident about? I went there, got real information, learned alot about expectations and local's feelings. In a nutshell, it is very apparent to me that cheap, free loading, polluting cruisers are not going to be very welcome. But, cruisers that add value, abide by the rules and spend money will be embraced with open arms. After learning the ropes I will absolutely report any cruiser that I hear of pumping their waste in the harbour, bringing their own booze onto Volleyball Beach etc. I am not going to hide behind some "Cruiser Code of Ethics" and turn a blind eye.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Who is coming to George Town November - April? Please list name of vessel and current location.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for the current info, bird.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

You are most welcome. It was a good trip and I am happy that I made it happen. The information that I acquired coupled with the goodwill generated and relationships made will pay dividends. I am sure of it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Fun thread.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I think the problem here is lack of knowledge, or what use to be lack of knowledge. You have went from some off the wall ideas. To a much better understanding of what it will take to cruise. As some posted it is most likely going to cost to just get there.

I myself am not a Georgetown kind of person. I like to be among less people. Although I did enjoy and meet wonderful people while there. We used Georgetown to drop off ,meet, and drop off again family.

Although even in Georgetown you can getaway. We had a fantastic walk over to the windward side of Stocking Island. We used the dink also to get away. Getting down just south of the anchorage to some exploring.

I would take all of Vasco's knowledge. I think he's an honorable mayor, or something  . His knowledge, is huge of the situation there. You will have to admit. You did not put yourself in a good light. I am sure you will understand more completely once you get there. BEST WISHES in enjoying the Bahamas. I miss them dearly.

I also believe the fishing permit comes with the cruising permit, but you have to ask for it. I spent over 4 seasons sailing in, and out of the Bahamas. Most of my gallery pics are the Bahamas. Do not be in a rush to get there. Once you leave Nassau there's tons to see, and do well before Georgetown, and past Georgetown too.........*i2f*


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

Thank you very much for sharing IMAGINE.

I am curious that more people are not chyiming in. I wonder if they will be bypassing George Town this year with the new rules that are being bandied about? Are some cruisers looking for a "cheaper" anchorage? Or, are many taking a season off due to the economy?

It would be great if some George Town "vets" chimed in!


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Not every one on here cruises. Could check Cruisers Forum for that.... Some of us are just lowly lake sailors who's season is now over.....


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

We weren't at all interested on Georgetown, favoring smaller islands. To be honest, G-town is great if you want to meet other cruisers. If all we wanted to do is meet other cruisers we would have stayed in Vero Beach. We headed for some of the smaller keys (cays) in the Exumas, and then the Out Islands, to meet more Bahamians.


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## birdpepper (Oct 20, 2010)

El Bumpo.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

birdpepper said:


> El Bumpo.


We'll be down there dec. 20th through the 29th. Maybe we'll bring a present for you...


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## trubahamian (Nov 11, 2010)

> He said they also did not seem to mind him using the washroom to freshen up. The bartender saw him do it a couple times and made no comment. No one wants to make anyone look bad but if a place is having a happy hour and you make people happy then the house snacks are a nice perk.


Maybe he seemed like he did not mind because we are a polite and tolerant people,but that is rude man. Trust me,that type of behaviour does not make anyone look good.


```
[QUOTE]I fish. I have a spear gun. I will harvest whelks, coconuts, guineps, sea grapes. I will network with locals and ask them where fruit trees are[/QUOTE]
```
.

Spear guns are illegal in our Bahamasland and seagrapes are off season right now.Fruit trees are rare in the wild you know.Most all of them are on someone's property,you may find an errant tree here or there,but don't count on it.


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## Lehder (Nov 11, 2010)

This is making me sick. These cruisers think they can come down to George Town every year and take over. They walk around the town in the middle of the road like they own it. If you are in your boat in the harbour they always think that THEY have the right of way. Most of the time when they go under the bridge into the Pond they are just going to get free water at Exuma markets and minimal provisions. They clog the radio waves with their bartering and trading. They will spend all day on the radio to organize a "taxi share" if they need to go to the airport. Just pay the $30.00! You do not need to be on the radio for 4 hours to round up 2-3 more bodies to save $20.00. The cab drivers know what you are up to and when you are sharing that $30 rate will become $50 or $60. The majority have attitudes and act as if they own the place. They own nothing! They are squatters at best going out of their way to spend the least amount of money as possible which does little to positively impact the local economy. We are fed up with the sewage being pumped into the harbour at night and we are fed up with the attitudes compounded by their cheap nature. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO VISIT THIS COUNTRY THEN STAY WHEREVER YOU CAME FROM.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm actually digging the feedback from people that are there...like Lehder. It's really good hearing their side of the story - and I can totally see the point.

Keep it coming folks. It's good learning.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm happy for anyone that chooses to live a minimalist lifestyle, temporarily or permanently. I reject them doing it at my expense.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm happy for anyone that chooses to live a minimalist lifestyle, temporarily or permanently. I reject them doing it at my expense.


I think this is exactly the difference between "frugal" and "cheap." If you want to do without things that's fine, but if you want them - but just don't want to *pay* for them - that's a whole different ugly case.

Nicely stated, Minn!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

So pepper - here's what I don't get: You started off wanting to bum booze and peanuts at HHs with wit and charm, pick up garbage, eat rice and beans and seagrapes, dump your poo in the lagoon, just to make $1,000 go for an eternity.

BUT, you then flew down there on a private plane to talk to the locals?

What's the original motivation here?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Lehder said:


> This is making me sick. These cruisers think they can come down to George Town every year and take over. They walk around the town in the middle of the road like they own it. If you are in your boat in the harbour they always think that THEY have the right of way. Most of the time when they go under the bridge into the Pond they are just going to get free water at Exuma markets and minimal provisions. They clog the radio waves with their bartering and trading. They will spend all day on the radio to organize a "taxi share" if they need to go to the airport. Just pay the $30.00! You do not need to be on the radio for 4 hours to round up 2-3 more bodies to save $20.00. The cab drivers know what you are up to and when you are sharing that $30 rate will become $50 or $60. The majority have attitudes and act as if they own the place. They own nothing! They are squatters at best going out of their way to spend the least amount of money as possible which does little to positively impact the local economy. We are fed up with the sewage being pumped into the harbour at night and we are fed up with the attitudes compounded by their cheap nature. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO VISIT THIS COUNTRY THEN STAY WHEREVER YOU CAME FROM.





birdpepper said:


> What do you need to feel confident about? I went there, got real information, learned alot about expectations and local's feelings. In a nutshell, it is very apparent to me that cheap, free loading, polluting cruisers are not going to be very welcome. But, cruisers that add value, abide by the rules and spend money will be embraced with open arms. After learning the ropes I will absolutely report any cruiser that I hear of pumping their waste in the harbour, bringing their own booze onto Volleyball Beach etc. I am not going to hide behind some "Cruiser Code of Ethics" and turn a blind eye.


My dear Birdpepper and Lehder,

I have never really understood the whole troll thing. I have also never understood sock puppets. It's kinda like when kids in grade school would run around trying to make each other pass out or thumping ears of someone else because they thought it was funny. Humor at the expense of someone else has never been funny to me.

The internet is a wonderful thing. It allows us to speak to many people around the world almost instanteneously. It also allows us to share ideas and thoughts and ask for help. That is what these boards are about - helping one another. You may think it is a joke and a way to laugh (all by yourself) at the expense of others, but many of us here are professionals and passionate about sailing and cruising and use this board as a way to give back and help others to make their experience safe and fun. We make the assumption that the person asking really wants/needs help.

Many of the people that read these forums, yourself not included, have a genuine interest in helping others and learning something. NOW READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY: Many people reading this will trust that the person giving them information is being honest and they will follow this information to its end. A sailboat can be VERY dangerous, especially when she hits the open sea. Heck - people drowned in lakes. But unlike other forums (lets say maybe something in the record business), bad information and guidance can kill someone here. I would hope that anyone reading any suggestions on Sailnet or any other sailing forum would verify the information and make sure it is correct before acting upon it. However, there are some people that never meet a stranger and cannot imagine someone willfully trying to deceive them. THey are the ones I worry about.

I have your IP's. I am debating whether to not only ban you, but also block your entire IP from being able to view this site (that would mean anyone and everyone is banned... not just you... and at your home). I am also considering turning these IP's over to the Blacklist where you will becmoe marked as a known Spammer to all (ALL... not just ours) the boards and internet sites. Have fun getting Google to remove that one.

I think you need to come clean and you owe the board an apology. Depending on how clean you come, will depend on my actions.

I already told you that you were on a razor thin line with me and you would not get a second chance. You ignored that. Now live up to the consequences. Where we go from here is up to you.

Brian


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## trubahamian (Nov 11, 2010)

Lehder said:


> This is making me sick. These cruisers think they can come down to George Town every year and take over. They walk around the town in the middle of the road like they own it. If you are in your boat in the harbour they always think that THEY have the right of way. Most of the time when they go under the bridge into the Pond they are just going to get free water at Exuma markets and minimal provisions. They clog the radio waves with their bartering and trading. They will spend all day on the radio to organize a "taxi share" if they need to go to the airport. Just pay the $30.00! You do not need to be on the radio for 4 hours to round up 2-3 more bodies to save $20.00. The cab drivers know what you are up to and when you are sharing that $30 rate will become $50 or $60. The majority have attitudes and act as if they own the place. They own nothing! They are squatters at best going out of their way to spend the least amount of money as possible which does little to positively impact the local economy. We are fed up with the sewage being pumped into the harbour at night and we are fed up with the attitudes compounded by their cheap nature. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO VISIT THIS COUNTRY THEN STAY WHEREVER YOU CAME FROM.


As a Bahamian and a lifetime yacht Captain, both power and sail,but mostly sportfishing I understand your frustrations with cruisers that abuse all sense of good manners.Some do so right to the point of being down right dirty to look at and are obnoxious to smell and listen to. Fortunately most of the people I have met in the boating world, "power and sail" are not this way.

What I am trying to point out to you is please do not paint all cruisers with a broad brush. Most are as sensible,kind and helpful as could be so please keep it in mind wen your rant should be directed at a few........not all.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad said:


> However, there are some people that never meet a stranger and cannot imagine someone willfully trying to deceive them. THey are the ones I worry about.


Does that describe me or what?

Man, you mods are good! Nice work CD!

(BTW what's this "record business" of which you speak?)


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

trubahamian said:


> As Bahamian and a lifetime yacht Captain, both power and sail,but mostly sportfishing I understand your frustrations with cruisers that abuse all sense of good manners.Some do so right to the point of being down right dirty to look at and are obnoxious bth to smell and listen to. Fortunately most of the people I have met in the boating world, "power and sail" are not this way.
> 
> What I am trying to point out to you is please do not paint all cruisers with a broad brush. Most are as sensible,kind and helpful as could be so please keep iti in mind wen your rant should be directed at a few........not all.


That poster is a sock puppet for Birdpooper. That means they are one in the same. Please read the beginning of this thread and you will realize that this whole thing has been nothing but an attempt by that poster to stir up trouble. Before I slam the lid closed on him and his persona(s), I would like to see his response. But do not take ANYTHING either of them have said as anything but an attempt to stir up trouble here. And I have met some jerks in cruising, but most are very nice people and really care. Most of them are professionals (or were in previous lives) and treat people with respect - especially Bahamians which have a wonderful reputation as being especially kind and thoughtful. That is why we go there as cruisers and that is why I plan on being there shortly.

Maybe I will see you there!??

All the best,

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> (BTW what's this "record business" of which you speak?)


That is veiled discussion between me and Birdpooper. I think he will get the hint.

Brian


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Oh, snap!


Look, I detest trolls as much as the next guy. But even with the trollery, this thread has had some great discussion...people have made some great points...we've learned some things...and it's been pretty fun.

AND it has provided a platform for the above hilarity....which now seems even more apropos. (Nice work bl.)

I love this place.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Look, I detest trolls as much as the next guy. But even with the trollery, this thread has had some great discussion...people have made some great points...we've learned some things...and it's been pretty fun.
> 
> AND it has provided a platform for the above hilarity....which now seems even more apropos. (Nice work bl.)
> 
> I love this place.


Yes - I agree. That was why I left it up. I had hoped he would not do anything dumb again, and I did warn him, but so be it. Truth is that I think he really does have an interest in all of this and it is not all bait and switch.

Brian


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## trubahamian (Nov 11, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> That poster is a sock puppet for Birdpooper. That means they are one in the same. Please read the beginning of this thread and you will realize that this whole thing has been nothing but an attempt by that poster to stir up trouble. Before I slam the lid closed on him and his persona(s), I would like to see his response. But do not take ANYTHING either of them have said as anything but an attempt to stir up trouble here. And I have met some jerks in cruising, but most are very nice people and really care. Most of them are professionals (or were in previous lives) and treat people with respect - especially Bahamians which have a wonderful reputation as being especially kind and thoughtful. That is why we go there as cruisers and that is why I plan on being there shortly.
> 
> Maybe I will see you there!??
> 
> ...


If you come to Hopetown we just may run into one another. Mabbe tip a few aye?

It seems you have this situation well in hand and know it for what it is.I am a lifelong sailor of all types of boats and I will always defend our lifestyle wen it is slammed like that. Good luck and enjoy your stay in our sweet Bahamasland.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

trubahamian said:


> If you come to Hopetown we just may run into one another. Mabbe tip a few aye?
> 
> It seems you have this situation well in hand and know it for what it is.I am a lifelong sailor of all types of boats and I will always defend our lifestyle wen it is slammed like that. Good luck and enjoy your stay in our sweet Bahamasland.


The plan right now is Marsh, but we may try and get south to GT. Heading to the Keys next week and will spend some time in Boot Key. Have you been there? It is pretty too. LOTS of cruisers and nice folks.

Brian


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## Lehder (Nov 11, 2010)

Good points Brian.

The goal was to get real discussion going between the "good" cruisers and the "bad" ones. We do have a problem in Georgetown with the "pump and dump" situation. The local economy needs help and we need visitors that add value.

I think the issue has explained itself now and valid points have been made that have allowed people to become aware of some very real issues along with some very caring and considerate cruisers sharing good information.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Lehder said:


> Good points Brian.
> 
> The goal was to get real discussion going between the "good" cruisers and the "bad" ones. We do have a problem in Georgetown with the "pump and dump" situation. The local economy needs help and we need visitors that add value.
> 
> I think the issue has explained itself now and valid points have been made that have allowed people to become aware of some very real issues along with some very caring and considerate cruisers sharing good information.


Yeah, but if you're carrying both sides of the conversation (e.g. - playing the good and the bad roles) - it's kind of lame dude. State your opinion and stand by it - without the sockpuppetry. In other words...man up.

Are you really Bird's sock?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Been going to the Bahamas nearly every winter since 1990. Have only met one bad mooching cruiser and the community took care of him. Trolls should be banned. Cruisingdad, if you see "Breathless" , B393 (I'll be in the Bahamas sometime in the new year) give me a shout.


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## SOLARWIND (Feb 27, 2009)

Gypsies and scroungers are not welcome in the Bahamas and are usually told to leave. Fishing without a licence, selling products or services will get you in a lot of trouble, your boat confiscated and maybe jail time or have to pay money as penalty.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Vasco said:


> Been going to the Bahamas nearly every winter since 1990. Have only met one bad mooching cruiser and the community took care of him. Trolls should be banned. Cruisingdad, if you see "Breathless" , B393 (I'll be in the Bahamas sometime in the new year) give me a shout.


You got it! Before I head there I will probably see if I can round up a few sailnetters to meet up with!! That would be fun!

Brian


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

What _is_ it about this place that attracts sockpuppets? This guy, and "Holly Marie"... it's wierd.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

BubbleheadMd said:


> What _is_ it about this place that attracts sockpuppets? This guy, and "Holly Marie"... it's wierd.


Dude, this place has WAY, WAY fewer socks than SA! Over there you never have any idea who you're talking to. Of course, I'm pretty sure it's not against the forum rules at SA as it is here - so it's just more aggressively jumped on here.

Anyway, drive bys are always fun.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, but if you're carrying both sides of the conversation (e.g. - playing the good and the bad roles) - it's kind of lame dude. State your opinion and stand by it - without the sockpuppetry. In other words...man up.
> 
> Are you really Bird's sock?


Smack,

Of course he is the BirdCrap's sockpuppet. Same IP address for posts from both of them.

This wanker has no opinion worth listening to. All he is trying to do is presumably improve the view from his holiday home. He has one agenda, self interest. In the words of my old friend Dylan Winter "the man is a complete twassock" *.

*....Urban Dictionary: twassock


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

:thewave: 

That's funny using the detective method, nice! Same IP address ... lol


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

Dang, what is it with this place lately?  It's usually such a nice....tranquil....er - place... 

CD deserves an extra lump of coal in his stocking this Christmas.  Maybe one for tdw too.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I shall add "twassock" to my vocabulary henceforth.

My dear Mr. Birdpecker/Lehderhosen...you are henceforth marked as a flaming TWASSOCK!

Man, that felt good.


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## DulceSuerna (May 19, 2010)

No sock puppet here (though made one as a kid, we were that poor lol) I am curious though about some of what was discussed here with disregard to the bs going on. My curiosity resides in the area of "trading services for gain" and things considered similar to this. If someone is in need of a mechanic for an unexpected repair. Should I be afraid to offer up help in other countries for fear of someone feeling I am "taking food from locals mouths"? Just an example but the list could include injuries, repairs, etc dunno not too creative atm. Or is it acceptable as I commonly hear that a diesel mechanic is worth 10 surgeons etc so if I was hoping that at some point in the future to utilize my skill or experience ( or anyone elses for that matter) would it be too risky to do so, unless there is just no other alternative?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

RTB said:


> Dang, what is it with this place lately?  It's usually such a nice....tranquil....er - place...
> 
> CD deserves an extra lump of coal in his stocking this Christmas.  Maybe one for tdw too.


lump of coal is about all a grumpy old bastard like me is going to get.... but I'll take whatever is on offer. 

Its funny isn't it ? Couple of times in the past few weeks a "gee its a bit quiet on the complaints front isn't it ? Everyone is being so well behaved. " message has gone round the Mod Squad top secret message service.

Should've kept our traps shut.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

DulceSuerna said:


> No sock puppet here (though made one as a kid, we were that poor lol) I am curious though about some of what was discussed here with disregard to the bs going on. My curiosity resides in the area of "trading services for gain" and things considered similar to this. If someone is in need of a mechanic for an unexpected repair. Should I be afraid to offer up help in other countries for fear of someone feeling I am "taking food from locals mouths"? Just an example but the list could include injuries, repairs, etc dunno not too creative atm. Or is it acceptable as I commonly hear that a diesel mechanic is worth 10 surgeons etc so if I was hoping that at some point in the future to utilize my skill or experience ( or anyone elses for that matter) would it be too risky to do so, unless there is just no other alternative?


There's no problem with helping fellow cruisers or even shoreside folks with problems. Just don't do it for money or barter. Cruisers are always helping each other out.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

CD, if you say that Birdpooper is not a troll, I respect you enough to take your word for it. That said, when I look at this thread plus comments on other threads here, he seems to be looking for a fight.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

sailjunkie said:


> CD, if you say that Birdpooper is not a troll, I respect you enough to take your word for it. That said, when I look at this thread plus comments on other threads here, he seems to be looking for a fight.


Did I say he was not a troll? Certainly a Sock Puppet. I guess it all depends on what your definition of troll is... but he was most certainly here to make trouble and did it in a very non-transparent way.

Brian


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Nice job CD!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

For what it is worth, I have not seen any evidence that HollyMari was a troll. From everything that I have seen it would appear that she was mostly what she said she was, an 17 year old thinking of taking up the cruising life. Call me gullible. 

And also for what it was worth, the only provable accusation against HMA appears to be that she chose the source of her avatar poorly. If that were against forum rules there would be a lot of folks who would be sent packing. 

Jeff


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> For what it is worth, I have not seen any evidence that HollyMari was a troll. From everything that I have seen it would appear that she was mostly what she said she was, an 17 year old thinking of taking up the cruising life. Call me gullible.
> 
> And also for what it was worth, the only provable accusation against HMA appears to be that she chose the source of her avatar poorly. If that were against forum rules there would be a lot of folks who would be sent packing.
> 
> Jeff


Hey Jeff, not sure if you were referencing the above thread, but we were talking about Birdpepper, not HollyMari.

Brian


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Brian, 

There had been a mention of HollyMari as a troll in Post 133 which is why I responded. 
Jeff


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

On the basis that 

Trollish behaviour is tedious.

Sock Puppetry is offensive and tedious.

Twassocks are offensive tedious and without redeeming feature

We've banned their arses. 

(wombat endulges itself in general feeling of wellbeing from both doing good and exercising my authoritie.....)


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

tdw said:


> ...............
> 
> We've banned their arses.
> 
> (wombat endulges itself in general feeling of wellbeing from both doing good and exercising my authoritie.....)


And there was much rejoicing......... yeaaaaaaa..........


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