# Advice From Young Punks



## smackdaddy

Okay...so this whole "sailing advice" thing seems to be skewed toward lonely, bitter old dudes. There are certain things that this sorrowful demographic just won't (can't possibly) know.

So, when it comes to sailing in _cool new ways_, there is a great body of knowledge in the punks of CG2.

This is the thread for that. I'll start...


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## smackdaddy

In terms of sound quality, the Hero sucks. What's the best action HD cam out there that can actually grab good audio (not the tinny Hero sound, not the wind-blasted-killed-audio cam, etc.).

I've looked at everything from the Hero to the Ion. I need something better.


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## Classic30

smackdaddy said:


> Okay...so this whole "sailing advice" thing seems to be skewed toward* lonely, bitter old dudes.* There are certain things that this sorrowful demographic just won't (can't possibly) know.


Wow, Smack.. I've not heard you describe yourself like that before. Bad day at the office, huh?!?


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## smackdaddy

Classic30 said:


> Wow, Smack.. I've not heard you describe yourself like that before. Bad day at the office, huh?!?


Great day at the office, actually! I just made tens of thousands today! But who cares?

Let's just call it - reality.

When the ongoing conversation is continually about paper charts and wooden boats...I get very bored. _Very._

I'm much more interested in sailing in 2015+. Not 1750. I guess it's just the way I roll.

Any advice on the HDcam?


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## Classic30

smackdaddy said:


> Great day at the office, actually! I just made tens of thousands today! But who cares?
> 
> Let's just call it - reality.
> 
> When the ongoing conversation is continually about paper charts and wooden boats...I get very bored. _Very._
> 
> I'm much more interested in sailing in 2015+. Not 1750. I guess it's just the way I roll.


I know you're not the only one here like that.. each to their own, I say. 



smackdaddy said:


> Any advice on the HDcam?


Only that the GoPro Hero3+ Black seems to be the current pic of the bunch... but you're never going to get good non-wind-blown audio using the internal mic. It simply is not designed for that.

What you need to do is pick a camera with good video quality and an external mic connection, buy a good quality one with a windsock and mount it appropriately.

Just to prove I'm not completely the old 1750's fuddy-duddy you might think I am, here's a YT clip I found that might be of some help:


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## PaulinVictoria

You could record the audio track separately and then mix it back in during post-production. What kind of thing are you trying to record?


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## SailRedemption

Ultimate GoPro Mics: 




My GoPro Rig Setup - GoPro Tip #154:


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## Tenoch

Just a quick little rant here....I F'ING HATE GO-PROS! Sure I see the appeal of an HD camera that any 'radical' dude with little or no actual photography skills, or even the most rudimentary eye for composition, can strap to his skate board helmet, surfboard nose, or backstay, and show how 'extreme' he is through some f'd up fish-eye lens....oh, and why not throw in a sh*tty under-water sounding mic while your at it...since your just going to add some crappy sound track to it anyway....

If I sound like a lonely bitter old dude, so be it. But I work in television, and go-pros and their distorted #$&*@ shots are the bane of my existence.


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## paikea

Ah Tenoch, you don't sound at all a lonely bitter old dude. Of course it is frustrating to feel like your skills and knowledge are become obsolete.

I have to agree, for what smackdaddy needs, which is documenting a personal time and adventure, the GoPro might be his best option, which indeed can be combined with a separate mic and then put all together later. That is, *if* he needs a hands free camera. 
If not, there are other options, but these are not hands free (especially on a sailboat).


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## FirstCandC

We bought the 3+ and it is pretty neat. But it has taken this lonely bitter old dude a while to figure it out. I have a hard time getting the blue light to stop blinking. I spent an hour cursing at it last weekend. Apparently the wifi works even when the camera is off?
What ever happened to the old Polaroids?


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## capecodda

Smack, DUDE, I'm a lot older than you and have a GoPro. 

I get RADICAL OMG shots of sailing. Clamp it on the stern rail on a windy day. Watch it later and feel like you're there. Chest mount also way cool on the boat. Clamp it on a boat hook and drop it down to wave level. 

Yea, sound sucks...who needs sound...add some RAD TUNES!

Sail on DUDE!


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## capecodda

SO, here's one for old DUDEs with new tech.

My buddy can't get an internet connection from his boat. He puts his phone in a waterproof container, sets it up in hot spot mode, hoists it up on the main halyard. Up there, he gets a cell phone data connection which is relayed to everyone on deck. Happy day's all the dudes on deck surfing away.

SICK!


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## SVAuspicious

capecodda said:


> SO, here's one for old DUDEs with new tech.
> 
> My buddy can't get an internet connection from his boat. He puts his phone in a waterproof container, sets it up in hot spot mode, hoists it up on the main halyard. Up there, he gets a cell phone data connection which is relayed to everyone on deck. Happy day's all the dudes on deck surfing away.


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## KiteRider

Bitter old guy here,

Why do you want to film yourself getting lost when the GPS fails and hitting the dock when the bow thruster isn't working?

Just kidding, carry on with your gadgetry.


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted

Turn the wifi off button on lower left side looking at it, or leave it on and use your smart phone with the gopro app as your remote. Still learning mine as well


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## paikea

Good lord, what's with the "bitter old guys and dudes" all over this thread? 
I am starting to feel depressed. 

Come on, we need a chorus on "I am the strongest wisest dude on the parking lot"! 
And I forgot to mention that the parking lot was empty. 

(ok I probably lost you with that one, just another saying from my country)


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## Ajax_MD

I use a Polaroid XS100 action cam.

It's waterproof, doesn't need a "box" for protection. It's cylindrical in shape. It came with all the brackets, straps, bits and bobs you could need to mount it to nearly anything.

The mic is adequate, but I've noted that hardware noises like winches or the engine, transmit through the pulpit into the camera.

Decent battery life, I think it holds up to a 32GB memory chip.
I've recorded a lot of my racing footage, but I sail a 4ktsb, so it's not exactly "gripping stuff". I use technology, I singlehand a lot, I fly a symmetric kite by myself, so I'm busier than a one-legged man in an a## kicking contest. Like some others here, I've ventured into the Atlantic, alone. I guess that's not rad or extreme enough. I'm cynical sometimes, but not bitter.

I get that you are tired of talking to Westsail-sailing Luddites, but I'm not exactly sure what are you looking for? Maybe you need to buy a Moth and go foiling with the 20-something crowd?


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## ianjoub

On the racing motorcycles, we put a small piece of duct tape over the mic hole. It virtually eliminates the wind noise but sill allows audio capture.


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## Maine Sail

Call me old but I bought the top of the line GoPro last June, (2013) pulled it from the box, used it once and it has been sitting in my office, like a NordicTrac, collecting dust.... The user interface of that product SUCKS...

No real-time video display via my cell app? C'mon...... Christ sake I can Face Time with buddies in New Zealand and Manila and Phuket in real-time but my GoPro less than 3' away from my phone can't.....  The sound does suck too....

How about some instructions for us _old dudes_ who don't have the time to futz with getting the GoPro to work simply and intuitively....

Going back to knitting some baggy wrinkles and polishing my Sextant....


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## smackdaddy

KiteRider said:


> Bitter old guy here,
> 
> Why do you want to film yourself getting lost when the GPS fails and hitting the dock when the bow thruster isn't working?
> 
> Just kidding, carry on with your gadgetry.


Now that's funny.

This is what I love about SN. Just for kicks I started the same thread over on CF. Not a single reply.


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## FirstCandC

I became a bitter old dude at about the same time my transmission cable broke. 
As far as not having a preview mode, I agree COMPLETELY. We pair ours to an Ipad without a data plan, so that is indeed a problem.
The bad thing about the GoPro is by the time you buy all of the attachments and whatnot, you are out for a few more hundred bucks on an already expensive camera.


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## SVAuspicious

paikea said:


> Good lord, what's with the "bitter old guys and dudes" all over this thread?


Getting old doesn't make one bitter necessarily.

Some of us don't suffer fools gladly and that can be superficially confusing, for those prone to superficiality.


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## paikea

SVAuspicious said:


> Getting old doesn't make one bitter necessarily.


Of course not and it shouldn't! It was just getting sad that most that did reply on this thread would label themselves as such. 
I never like to see people putting themselves down. 
So for me, no such thing as "bitter old guy".


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## FirstCandC

I guess I should tell the loft not to put the giant middle finger on the new spinnaker.


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## SVAuspicious

FirstCandC said:


> I guess I should tell the loft not to put the giant middle finger on the new spinnaker.


That depends on whether you are at the front of the fleet or the rear ...


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## FirstCandC

SVAuspicious said:


> That depends on whether you are at the front of the fleet or the rear ...


Now THAT was funny!
In all seriousness, I am so old that I forgot what the thread was about, so I went back to find it on the front page and then I couldn't find it.

Going back to the young punks thing, you can have any label you want if you can fix an Atomic 4 in a cramped compartment while the sun beats down on your back, and the local wasps decide there is nothing better to do than look for a sweaty, grunting, cursing, bleeding mess. You earned it.


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## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> This is what I love about SN. Just for kicks I started the same thread over on CF. Not a single reply.


Yeah....too busy bashing us Hunter guys over there. Thanks for starting this thread. I've been thinking about a Go-Pro, or something, to use when we're cruising.

Ralph


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## krisscross

I don't think that Smack qualifies as a 'bitter old dude'. He is more like a bitter old dude wannabe. 

No GoPro camera on my boat. I like to keep things simple. When I see something really pretty out there I unwrap my triple bagged Nikon and take a few still shots. The rest just stays inside in my memory.


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## krazzz

If you can, wait for the GoPro 4. The specs are out of this world. I really want to get one just to do underwater inspections without getting cold and wet. haha.

This is probably the coolest thing I have seen done with a GoPro


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## smackdaddy

paikea said:


> Of course not and it shouldn't! It was just getting sad that most that did reply on this thread would label themselves as such.
> I never like to see people putting themselves down.
> So for me, no such thing as "bitter old guy".


Bingo! You're only as bitter and old as you make yourself out to be. That's why I never name any names. It's up to the posters to decide which side of it they are on.

I just want to hear from the young punks. They actually have some pretty cool ideas when it comes to new ways of doing things.

Sincerely,

BODW
(bitter old dude wannabe)

Heh-heh.


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## rbrasi

I'm in the 'Bitter/Old' category. 
To those of you having trouble with the Wifi on the Hero 3+:
Press the little button on the side of the camera opposite the USB jacks. Press it TWICE. That will give you the prehistoric LCD instructions on the tiny screen. Depress the power button to move the cursor over either 'off' or 'gopro app'. Press the shutter button to select.
Off turns it off, app gives you controls to, yes, view your picture live and also watch your existing files on your phone or tablet.
I use the Hero to see what I screwed up in the race last night. Otherwise, it's for the kids who like to share the cool things they do on the social media.

Edit: The app called RaceQS has a 3d recreation of your track and is in the beta testing stages of intertwining your Gorpo (or other camera) footage with the graphical representation, which looks really cool.

Also, I've used mine to fire my bottom cleaner. Just do it blind attached to a pole.


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## Brewgyver

Maine Sail said:


> (snip)
> No real-time video display via my cell app? C'mon...... Christ sake I can Face Time with buddies in New Zealand and Manila and Phuket in real-time but my GoPro less than 3' away from my phone can't..... ...


I connect to my Hero3 with my Android tablet, and it does do real time video display, and on my Samsung 10" tab, that video is stunning. What it won't do is playback the cam's recorded video via wireless. I understand how that could be more difficult, as most SD chips don't read as fast as they write. Hell, even that may already have been added, I need to check for updates for the app. Thanks for reminding me!


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## paikea

smackdaddy said:


> Bingo! You're only as bitter and old as you make yourself out to be. That's why I never name any names. It's up to the posters to decide which side of it they are on.
> 
> I just want to hear from the young punks. They actually have some pretty cool ideas when it comes to new ways of doing things.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> BODW
> (bitter old dude wannabe)
> 
> Heh-heh.


Granted, the elderly might not have the pretty cool ideas to new ways, but they surely have some pretty cool ideas to old ways we have no clue about either. Too many dying arts and crafts and skills out there.

I like to hear from both and blend them.

Sincerely,

HYPW
(happy young punkette wannabe)


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## krazzz

I am 35 years old and known as "The Kid" at my Yacht Club. I am the youngest boat owner there by at least 10-15 years. My wife is 29 and is by far the youngest member of the club. We don't mind being the kids. I know there is a wealth of knowledge there that I can learn from and hopefully I can teach them a thing or two too.


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## bljones

I am working on my drone driving skills, so i no longer have to take sailing selfies from a camera gorillapodded to the end of a boathook. I'm skipping the whole gopro step, because, sometimes, it's not all about you, but about the whole scene. There is more to life than a single POV.
Phantom 2 Vision - Your Flying Camera, Quadcopter Drone for Aerial Photography and Videography | DJI


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## smackdaddy

bljones said:


> I am working on my drone driving skills, so i no longer have to take sailing selfies from a camera gorillapodded to the end of a boathook. I'm skipping the whole gopro step, because, sometimes, it's not all about you, but about the whole scene. There is more to life than a single POV.
> Phantom 2 Vision - Your Flying Camera, Quadcopter Drone for Aerial Photography and Videography | DJI


+1.

Yeah, I'm all over the drone idea. Haven't done it yet, but have seen some insanely gorgeous video.

Have you seen DrakeP's stuff from Iceland? Wow.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Okay...so this whole "sailing advice" thing seems to be skewed toward lonely, bitter old dudes. There are certain things that this sorrowful demographic just won't (can't possibly) know.
> 
> So, when it comes to sailing in _cool new ways_, there is a great body of knowledge in *the punks of CG2.*


Uh-oh, this bitter member of the aforementioned Sorrowful Demographic is not sure what is meant by that 

Got a link, or something?



smackdaddy said:


> When the ongoing conversation is continually about paper charts and wooden boats...I get very bored. _Very._


Well, to each his own... I don't suppose anyone else around here might have become bored by the "Rallies Gone Wrong" thread yet, right? 

Presumably, the Paper Vs. E-Chart thing is now _settled_ in your view? Nothing further of any value to add to the discussion? Or, is how to sync a GoPro to a smartphone these days simply of greater importance? 

What do you suppose The Young Punks (or anyone else who has not yet been there, for that matter) would have to say about the advisability of cruising the coast of Labrador without paper charts?

There are a million places where one could very easily lose a boat up there... Made all the easier, when your e-charts feature 'gaps' in coverage such as this:










Venture up there without the _complete, most accurate, and up-to-date coverage_ that only the CHS paper afforded, well.... you'd better be sailing a Brent Boat, is all this Old Dude can say...


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## rbrasi

I have a bunch of great drone footage of my buddies stinkpot that I took while piloting off of the flybridge. Sadly, the footage is on a memory card, still in the Gopro, attached to the Phantom drone........under 180' of water in Lake Mead. 
My advice for over-the-water-piloting- disable the GPS function that returns to where you took off from if you are on a moving vehicle with the remote control.


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## Brewgyver

smackdaddy said:


> (snippage)
> Sincerely,
> 
> BODW
> (bitter old dude wannabe)
> 
> Heh-heh.


Smack, ya gotta work on that one. Ha! So, even an erstwhile negative sounding label can be improved or made worse, by using an acronym: So, a Bitter Old Lonely Dude can claim to be BOLD! At the same time, a Cynical Lonely Old Dude (Bubblehead?) is a CLOD. 

A few more (some are a stretch, I know). I know there are some here whose Significant Others don't enjoy sailing, hence those SailNeters are Single While ABoard, SWABs. Other would-be admirals still have a lot to learn, so they're Dames Aboard Vessel - In Training, or Davits, contrasted by the she-is-because-he-is type, or Woman Engaged in Navigation 'Cuzza Him... WENCH!

And, of course, there's the old stanby, Sailing A Long Time. 
uke


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## CapnSantiago

capecodda said:


> SO, here's one for old DUDEs with new tech.
> 
> My buddy can't get an internet connection from his boat. He puts his phone in a waterproof container, sets it up in hot spot mode, hoists it up on the main halyard. Up there, he gets a cell phone data connection which is relayed to everyone on deck.  Happy day's all the dudes on deck surfing away.
> 
> SICK!


Yea, this is one I've been trying to figure out. Please elaborate on the hotspot solution (I get cell phone reception). This is gonna eatup my data minutes though, right? FYI, I also use my cell for Pandora runes on the boat through my marine stereo (thought I was pretty smart just figuring that out), so I guess I can't rock my tunes and websurf?


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## CapnSantiago

SVAuspicious said:


>


Please elaborate on what this picture is...


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## smackdaddy

CapnSantiago said:


> Please elaborate on what this picture is...


I think it's this booster:

Mobile 3G | Store | Wilson Electronics


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## RainDog

smackdaddy said:


> I think it's this booster:
> 
> Mobile 3G | Store | Wilson Electronics


No LTE? Lame. I need to install one of these, but for sure need 4g.


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## paikea

Brewgyver said:


> or Woman Engaged in Navigation 'Cuzza Him... WENCH!


So every time I pick up the sextant and try to figure the damn thing out I am a WENCH? 
Oh my, I didn't know sailing was so much fun!


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## Minnewaska

I bought a GoPro for one reason only. To get an extra day on the boat. 

My wife had to fly out for business and needed to get back to the office first to get the company GoPro for something. I said, "If I buy one (at the nearest Best Buy), can we stay on the boat until tomorrow?" We had my sisters and their husbands along at the time. She said yes, so I did and am perfectly happy that it sits in the box. I have no plans to use it, although, I think I suggested we could use one.

Let's see some young punk pull that move off.


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## Maine Sail

RainDog said:


> No LTE? Lame. I need to install one of these, but for sure need 4g.


The only one that does it all and does 4G, is the Wilson Mobile 4G. This is an excellent product, and the only one like it. You would also need to order the Wilson marine antenna, some Wilson LMR 400 and the adapters. Always best to call Wilson and get the part number for everything you need, especially the adapters to go from "N" (LMR 400 cable) to "SMA" (amp end).. About $500 clams +/-...

If you can, the antenna performs best on the mast head but you _will_ require LMR 400 cable if running that far..... I regularly see gains in the -35 dBm range... Some times, where no 4G is even showing, and all I can see is 1X I can flip the amp on and get 4 bars of 4G. It has paid for itself about five times over....


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## splastiko

I was going too amateur with my gopro and shes sitting on the bottom somewhere...:hammer...Sealed up tight though, wonder what all was on that memory card??


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## SVAuspicious

paikea said:


> Granted, the elderly might not have the pretty cool ideas to new ways, but they surely have some pretty cool ideas to old ways we have no clue about either. Too many dying arts and crafts and skills out there.


More true than most people know. Electrical engineering curricula have been dominated by digital topics for many years. As long as 15 years ago clock speeds got so high that the printed circuit board traces started to act like transmission lines instead of pure conductors. Suddenly the value of analog electrical engineering (and a WHOLE bunch of old retired guys) increased significantly.



CapnSantiago said:


> Please elaborate on what this picture is...


It is a cellular amplifier that puts an antenna somewhere up high, increases the incoming signal, and retransmits it inside the boat. Outgoing signals from your phone are picked up inside the boat, amplified, and transmitted from up high.



RainDog said:


> No LTE? Lame. I need to install one of these, but for sure need 4g.





Maine Sail said:


> The only one that does it all and does 4G, is the Wilson Mobile 4G.


There you go. The challenge is making sure the LTE coverage meets your needs. There are lots of frequencies used by different carriers. The Mobile 4G is fine in the US, except for Clearwire, but fails in many other countries. All LTE is not the same.


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## Dave_E

Tenoch said:


> Just a quick little rant here....I F'ING HATE GO-PROS! Sure I see the appeal of an HD camera that any 'radical' dude with little or no actual photography skills, or even the most rudimentary eye for composition, can strap to his skate board helmet, surfboard nose, or backstay, and show how 'extreme' he is through some f'd up fish-eye lens....oh, and why not throw in a sh*tty under-water sounding mic while your at it...since your just going to add some crappy sound track to it anyway....
> 
> If I sound like a lonely bitter old dude, so be it. But I work in television, and go-pros and their distorted #$&*@ shots are the bane of my existence.


OK, I'm good with all that. What are your recomendations for us who are about to spend money on a system to document our nautical travels and adventures (above and below the waterline)?


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## emcentar

Youngish sailing punkette here.

Using your cell phone as a hot-spot will burn through your battery and your data plan quite quickly and should be considered a short run solution anywhere you can't leave the cell phone plugged in. Depending on your cellular plan, you might also easily consume your entire data for the month in a single afternoon.

For coastal sailors, consider getting something like a Verizon Jetpack with at least a 4G data plan. The connection is better, battery life longer, and more devices can connect without disruptions in service. You will still not want to stream Netflix for extended periods on the boat, but it will give you a solid wireless connection anywhere with 4G reception, which includes a lot of coastal sailing areas, and a slow but effective connection where there is only 3G. (If you want internet access off-shore, the options get fewer and much more expensive.)

As a backup to GPS, an Ipad with GPS and a navigation app is a good option for those whose navigation skills aren't up to navigating old school. (If you bought a iPad without GPS, get a GPS adaptor like Bad Elf. No internet connection required.)

I'm not an audio/video geek, but if I were interested in producing good quality sailing videos, I would scour the internet and find the folks that are posting high-quality sailing videos and see what setup they are using. I doubt it's GoPro, which I understand is pretty much for helmet jockeys who over-share on Facebook. (Ask me my real opinion.)

E.


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## CLOSECALL

Apparently there are very few young punks subscribing to this forum. Maybe they have more important things to do, like pursuing careers, raising families, or sailing.


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## Dave_E

Every time I see the word "punk" I go back to Mr. Callahan and smile. Probably warped my interpretation of the word "punk" for life. 

If any of you don't know who Mr. Callahan is... your young!


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## smackdaddy

emcentar said:


> Youngish sailing punkette here.
> 
> E.


Great feedback, thanks E.


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## rbrasi

http://www.timeart.co.uk/images/cache/dirty-harry-well-do-ya-punk--452-2000.jpg


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## JonEisberg

emcentar said:


> Youngish sailing punkette here.
> 
> ...
> 
> As a backup to GPS, an Ipad with GPS and a navigation app is a good option for those whose navigation skills aren't up to navigating old school. (If you bought a iPad without GPS, get a GPS adaptor like Bad Elf. No internet connection required.)


I salute you... _FINALLY_, 50 posts into this thread, a YP weighs in with some advice that actually has to do with _SAILING_...

)



emcentar said:


> I'm not an audio/video geek, but if I were interested in producing good quality sailing videos, I would scour the internet and find the folks that are posting high-quality sailing videos and see what setup they are using. *I doubt it's GoPro, which I understand is pretty much for helmet jockeys who over-share on Facebook. (Ask me my real opinion.)*
> 
> E.


One of my nephews has been on the Ski Patrol & Avalanche Control out a Mammoth Mountain for the past 5 years... Yeah, ask him for his real opinion about the "helmet jockeys", as well... 

He and his co-workers wouldn't be caught dead in one of these get-ups...


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## paikea

In the end smackdaddy, you need to decide also what is the "look" or "aspect" that your videos should express. 
The GoPro can give a large and exaggerated perspective/angle. This fits well when you want to emphasize adventure and equating all sort of dimensions and factors at play, if I can use that expression. 
When I photograph large buildings, or very large interiors, or when outdoors in nature trekking, I use more often an ultra wide angle lens on the camera, not only to try to stress the infinite dimensions, but to also add a distorted angle that just gives the photograph an artistic twist. 

If you look at the Laura Dekker's world circumnavigation documentary, she did that with a Sony Handycam, and her now world viewed documentary is fairly good from a quality perspective, considering the equipment and doing it herself, but especially it emanates a feeling of acute reality as opposed to something too... controlled. 
However, I am sure it took some pros putting it all together. 

That's where I fail big time, I have the GoPro, but sometimes I am just too busy to mount it, then to edit videos., I do too many things. So the time to "work it" is a factor too. In the end I just end up clicking the video on the camera, not the same thing, but at least I still "documented" some of the crazy moments.


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## Tenoch

Dave_E said:


> OK, I'm good with all that. What are your recomendations for us who are about to spend money on a system to document our nautical travels and adventures (above and below the waterline)?


My two big complaints with Go-Pros are the half-fish-eye distortion and the EXTREMELY crappy audio. I just bought a Sony HD Handycam that shoots great video. It's not perfect either, the interface with an Apple computer kinda sucks, and of course it's not water proof. But when I watch video I want it to be true 16x19, or wide screen, not like it was shot through a fun-house mirror.


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## rbrasi

Gopro has three settings for your view angle: narrow, which is equivalent of 16x9, medium, which is fairly wide and wide, which is fish eye territory. When sailing, I always use wide because it captures more of the area to provide more info on what I'm trying to learn. For aerials, I liked narrow, but it showed the vibration of the engines too much. For everything else, I pretty much use narrow.
Also, it's a $400 camera. You should not expect much, audio wise from it. Like someone else said here, record sound using an external device, and post synch them in edit.


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## smackdaddy

In my work, I've actually done a good deal of photography and video production work (and post) - mostly as a producer/director, but quite a bit of hands on as well. Everything from tilt-shift architectural photography to film-quality HD (Sony 900 Cinealtas) in multiple locations with cast and crew of up to 50 people.

I've also done a lot of post work with separate video and audio - and NO WAY do I want to do that for the kind of family doco stuff.

So paik, I totally see where you're coming from on the artistic side of things, and you're absolutely right. I'm just trying to find something that's really nice A/V quality for a sailing setting - without resorting to the RED.

BTW - paik - what's the boat in your avvy?


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## paikea

smackdaddy said:


> In my work, I've actually done a good deal of photography and video production work (and post) - mostly as a producer/director, but quite a bit of hands on as well. Everything from tilt-shift architectural photography to film-quality HD (Sony 900 Cinealtas) in multiple locations with cast and crew of up to 50 people.
> 
> I've also done a lot of post work with separate video and audio - and NO WAY do I want to do that for the kind of family doco stuff.
> 
> So paik, I totally see where you're coming from on the artistic side of things, and you're absolutely right. I'm just trying to find something that's really nice A/V quality for a sailing setting - without resorting to the RED.
> 
> BTW - paik - what's the boat in your avvy?


Gee, you seem to be the specialist here!

We all want to produce different things, for me personally, the artistic twist, or simply "a" twist, is important in pretty much anything that I do. Anything that I touch I like its outcome to be as much as possible with an artist twist, although the "artistic" terminology might be misleading because again its not about the physical result per se, but the experience of it overall, for me, and for others around me. I am a bit of a sucker for experiences, the defying and expansion of anything "common" and "normal". Maybe my own grown up Never-Never Land. 
So the GoPro could produce some interesting things in that regard.

Re the boat, that's a Laser. And embarrassingly for me to say, I was next to it , not on it.  Darn sharp things. There I just capsized it (ok, I didn't post these pictures  a bit of dignity self preservation here), managed to get it back upright, and was getting back on. 
I try to sail anything I can get my hands on as being advised here so often. Very excited as very soon I will go on a serious sailing course totally out there for 2 weeks full time, sleeping on the boat, and first time I do this. Excited and worried about the seasickness. Didn't get it yet on any boat I have been so far. But I did get it once on a scuba dive and that was not fun. So just like Angelina Jolie armed all the way to her thongs in Mr and Mrs Smith, I will arm myself in every possible corner with every possible cure out there.


----------



## smackdaddy

There are a million seasickness remedies. Bonine has worked pretty well for us.

Have fun out there! And bring back some video!!!!


----------



## GeorgeB

Kind of a major thread drift from GoPro's to calling up Ralph on the porcelain phone!


----------



## smackdaddy

Well - they nuked the entire thread over at CF. Good lord.


----------



## miatapaul

I think the lens is as lousy as the microphone but they do make some crisp but distorted looking video. That wide angle lens though is it's downfall to me. Sure it has settings for angle of view but it is still shot through a distortion prone wide angle lens, just cropped. It is not possible to make a good lens as wide as they try for what the camera costs, let along a camera lens combo. The original reason for the wide lens is that the way it is meant to be used, you cannot frame the shot so it tries to catch everything. But what you wind up with is too much in the shot. They work well in situations that you cannot frame the image, but will never take "good" images. I have seen some great surfing shots. Most of the sailing videos I have seen just try to get too much into the frame. Kite shots though can be amazing. 

I have a friend who has several quadro-copters and I would not try launching one from a boat. Perhaps if it floated.


----------



## Whitebread117

smackdaddy said:


> Well - they nuked the entire thread over at CF. Good lord.


Yes I lost an excellent half-lit dissertation post on that thread. Big brother is watching you....

Regarding GoPro, they've enjoyed market-leader status for 5 or 6 years now due to ease of use compared to their previous competition. Contour and a few of the other early runners have fallen off and GoPro (like Apple in the early 2000s) is king of the hill and gets many customers on name alone.

However the market is now ripe for a fresh approach to provide a more feature driven alternative. I don't think it will be long before there will be another (better) option - the market is too lucrative and the growth is exponential.

That being said, I just bought a nice Sony Handycam (720p 60fps, 10MP stills, decent optical zoom, low light capable) for peanuts because the non-ruggedized consumer video market is falling off a cliff. For screens under 50" the difference between 720p and 1080p is not visible to most humans. That'll get me by until the Android to GoPro's Apple comes along to shake up the action cam market.


----------



## smackdaddy

Whitebread117 said:


> Yes I lost an excellent half-lit dissertation post on that thread. Big brother is watching you....
> 
> Regarding GoPro, they've enjoyed market-leader status for 5 or 6 years now due to ease of use compared to their previous competition. Contour and a few of the other early runners have fallen off and GoPro (like Apple in the early 2000s) is king of the hill and gets many customers on name alone.
> 
> However the market is now ripe for a fresh approach to provide a more feature driven alternative. I don't think it will be long before there will be another (better) option - the market is too lucrative and the growth is exponential.
> 
> That being said, I just bought a nice Sony Handycam (720p 60fps, 10MP stills, decent optical zoom, low light capable) for peanuts because the non-ruggedized consumer video market is falling off a cliff. For screens under 50" the difference between 720p and 1080p is not visible to most humans. That'll get me by until the Android to GoPro's Apple comes along to shake up the action cam market.


Yeah - you seriously need to repost that explanation of CG2.0. It was perfect.

Welcome to SN dude. You'll like the place.


----------



## Whitebread117

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - you seriously need to repost that explanation of CG2.0. It was perfect.
> 
> Welcome to SN dude. You'll like the place.


If I could copy paste I would, but I can't get to it. And I can't remember exactly what I wrote - sleep deprivation (and a little bit of tequila) was a factor.

If you find it feel free to post it on my behalf, otherwise it's lost to the censors


----------



## SailRedemption

What exactly determines a young person to be a punk anyways? I'm young butt sure don't think I'm a punk.. At least not always haha! 

But, in regards to the GoPro. I think a lot of you are only making your judgment from use with the 1 or 2. The GoPro 3 is leaps and bounds better than the previous two. The audio is better, albeit not the best by any means, and the fisheye distortion has been reduced because they no longer use the same lens housing. The previous two were fisheye lens housings where the 3 is a flat lens(the dive housing if you want it for the early models). Plus, live feed from camera to your phone via app, no one is close to this yet in the arena. And professionals DO use GoPro cameras to shoot video, but like anything else it's all in post production. If an amateur were to shoot something with a Red camera(which last time I read about them were 20k)they would most probably still have crappy footage, though insane resolution, and mediocre audio. It's all in the video editing and post production, plus it's knowing how to use your equipment and it's limits. You don't buy a GoPro for its audio quality, you buy it for a full HD 1080p (and the top Model 4k) in a rugged and compact, light package that has more mounts than anyone else, can be made waterproof (anyone price a dive case for a regular camera, cost as much as the dslr itself). They take great video at incredible fps, all for less than $500. 

And another thing is the different types of modes it takes, stills, delayed stills, time-lapse, video. The files are in a format that isn't proprietary like some companies make you suffer with and can only use their terrible editing software unless you get a converter. 

I agree that every Tom Dick and Harry post raw footage online but you know what sailors post crap on here all the time too because believe it or not there are people who still enjoy and wait to watch and look at their stuff when they post it.


----------



## smackdaddy

If I'm gonna call the bitter old dudes bitter, I gotta call the young punks punks. It's only fair.


----------



## northoceanbeach

We could use more talk that's not geared to old people ranting about how you can't actually sail your boat...although I don't know how much I care about go pros. I have a rugged camera that I think takes good video and better pictures, with some zoom to the lens. I just don't want everything to be in fisheye, but it has it's place. 

One problem is I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or not, but it seems most places, particularly youtube, compress all you video to really poor resolution. I find youtube pretty unwatchable. My highest choice for viewing is 460? pixels. It just looks terrible.

I'm more of a fan of a good camera that takes good stills, then has video capability. But I don't really find sailing videos very exciting. It's hard to capture the feeling on a video. I've tried to show friends some and they were just bored. 

What happened at CF? What made the thread get nuked? Talk about crusty, at lest Sailnet has a mix of people. CF is pure bitter old guys. And Sailing Anarchy is too race and trash talk focussed for me.


----------



## smackdaddy

northoceanbeach said:


> We could use more talk that's not geared to old people ranting about how you can't actually sail your boat...


Over the years I found that most of the ranting old people were wrong. I actually could sail my boat. Maybe not perfectly - but I've got a couple thousand offshore miles behind me now - and I'm okay.

So don't let them get to you. Just sail. That's what I love about most of the punks in the New Generation thread. They don't need anyone to approve - they just do it.



northoceanbeach said:


> What happened at CF? What made the thread get nuked? Talk about crusty, at lest Sailnet has a mix of people. CF is pure bitter old guys. And Sailing Anarchy is too race and trash talk focussed for me.


No comment right now. I'm conversing with the mods over there about it. We'll see what happens.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> So don't let them get to you. Just sail. That's what I love about most of the punks in the New Generation thread. They don't need anyone to approve - they just do it.


You mean, like all those alleged newbs in the Salty Dawg Rally, where _"Just Do It"_ might as well be the rally's official motto?

Sorry, couldn't resist... )


----------



## MedSailor

Minnewaska said:


> I bought a GoPro for one reason only. To get an extra day on the boat.
> 
> My wife had to fly out for business and needed to get back to the office first to get the company GoPro for something. I said, "If I buy one (at the nearest Best Buy), can we stay on the boat until tomorrow?" We had my sisters and their husbands along at the time. She said yes, so I did and am perfectly happy that it sits in the box. I have no plans to use it, although, I think I suggested we could use one.
> 
> Let's see some young punk pull that move off.


Yeah you're probably right. The young set can't usually just drop that kind of coin to extend their sailin another day.

On the flip side the younger set usually aren't begging permission to stay out on the boat. They're more likely to be begging their hot g/f to use altoids again tonight.



Medsailor


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> You mean, like all those alleged newbs in the Salty Dawg Rally, where _"Just Do It"_ might as well be the rally's official motto?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist... )


Of course you couldn't. As I've always said, completely different kettle of hamsters. A cruising rally is pretty much the antithesis of what every young punk listed in that thread is doing, wouldn't you say?


----------



## TakeFive

So, a bunch of geezers arguing over cameras. How special! :laugher

(Disclosure - I didn't have time to read the whole thread. Maybe other topics have been whined about too.  )

I'm no young guy, but my son is. And this is what he and his friends want to sail:

Mach2 Foiling Moths - Home

Lots of videos on YouTube:


----------



## Whitebread117

Smackdaddy apparently coerced the fine folks at the CF Public Decency Dept to relent and un-nuke the thread. So as requested, a short explanation of what bitter old men would define as a "young punk", aka CG2.0.-





Allow me to clarify (at least as much as my CG1.5 brain allows). And I say that in all seriousness, I'm CG1.5. I'm 34 but use technology (all forms) heavily in my day to day life professionally, and moderately in my life personally. I look at things very differently than most folks only 5-7 years older than me, yet also different than those 5-10 years younger than me. Moore's law, etc, etc, conjecture, conjecture.

CG 2.0 is the group of sailers whom (as the examples mentioned) are in their 20s (though Delos is more of a made-my-money-and-living-the-good-life story than others) and may (like Delos) or may not (like most others) have access to a sizable "cruising kitty" and choose in turn to go young, go now, and worry about the money as needs arise.


CG2.0 has no significant memory of life without the internet. Perhaps they don't always need connection, but they know that any information they require is readily available once they see the wifi bars. Need motor repair? No problem, either we'll find a guy locally or we'll find wifi to google our way out of most of the diagnostic cost and just pay for the physical repair. Or better yet we'll do all the diagnostics and just pay for the machine shop work we can't do on board the boat.

CG2.0 also has little memory of true economic hardships, and they are the better for it (in my opinion). They were not born in the 70's during the oil crunch and 15% mortgage rates, and they did not own property during the late 2000's real estate bubble burst. However they watched friends and family feel the effects of the late 2000s bust and have a very pragmatic view of the "American Dream". *note - for those of you who are not American, I apologize. Forward funds to cover a 6 month tour of your wonderful country and I promise to edit this post to include your point of view. And I am quite sincere in that offer In the meantime since I currently cannot afford to leave the USA, you get the singular viewpoint."

CG2.0 is not a retiree looking for the good life aboard their sailboat while budgeting their retirement to afford the maximum enjoyment before old age forces them back on land for permanent retirement/hospice. Sorry if that's depressing but a significant portion of sailing cruisers fall in that category (more's the pity).

CG2.0 is a an individual (or even family) who is willing to give up the American (or replace with your country here) Dream of a house, 2 cars, and a timeshare at the beach. In return they are looking for a connection to a less materialistic life, experiences with down to earth people, and a reason for being that doesn't revolve around possessions.

That's enough of my neo-hippy rant. More importantly, what oil should I be using, what anchor is best, and are Hunters really the death traps that everyone claims them to be?





FWIW, trolling the Hunter lure is what caused a reaction from our own thread starter which angered the censorship dieties at CF


----------



## smackdaddy

Whitebread117 said:


> Smackdaddy apparently coerced the fine folks at the CF Public Decency Dept to relent and un-nuke the thread. So as requested, a short explanation of what bitter old men would define as a "young punk", aka CG2.0.-
> 
> Allow me to clarify (at least as much as my CG1.5 brain allows). And I say that in all seriousness, I'm CG1.5. I'm 34 but use technology (all forms) heavily in my day to day life professionally, and moderately in my life personally. I look at things very differently than most folks only 5-7 years older than me, yet also different than those 5-10 years younger than me. Moore's law, etc, etc, conjecture, conjecture.
> 
> CG 2.0 is the group of sailers whom (as the examples mentioned) are in their 20s (though Delos is more of a made-my-money-and-living-the-good-life story than others) and may (like Delos) or may not (like most others) have access to a sizable "cruising kitty" and choose in turn to go young, go now, and worry about the money as needs arise.
> 
> CG2.0 has no significant memory of life without the internet. Perhaps they don't always need connection, but they know that any information they require is readily available once they see the wifi bars. Need motor repair? No problem, either we'll find a guy locally or we'll find wifi to google our way out of most of the diagnostic cost and just pay for the physical repair. Or better yet we'll do all the diagnostics and just pay for the machine shop work we can't do on board the boat.
> 
> CG2.0 also has little memory of true economic hardships, and they are the better for it (in my opinion). They were not born in the 70's during the oil crunch and 15% mortgage rates, and they did not own property during the late 2000's real estate bubble burst. However they watched friends and family feel the effects of the late 2000s bust and have a very pragmatic view of the "American Dream". *note - for those of you who are not American, I apologize. Forward funds to cover a 6 month tour of your wonderful country and I promise to edit this post to include your point of view. And I am quite sincere in that offer In the meantime since I currently cannot afford to leave the USA, you get the singular viewpoint."
> 
> CG2.0 is not a retiree looking for the good life aboard their sailboat while budgeting their retirement to afford the maximum enjoyment before old age forces them back on land for permanent retirement/hospice. Sorry if that's depressing but a significant portion of sailing cruisers fall in that category (more's the pity).
> 
> CG2.0 is a an individual (or even family) who is willing to give up the American (or replace with your country here) Dream of a house, 2 cars, and a timeshare at the beach. In return they are looking for a connection to a less materialistic life, experiences with down to earth people, and a reason for being that doesn't revolve around possessions.
> 
> That's enough of my neo-hippy rant. More importantly, what oil should I be using, what anchor is best, and are Hunters really the death traps that everyone claims them to be?
> 
> FWIW, trolling the Hunter lure is what caused a reaction from our own thread starter which angered the censorship dieties at CF


Yeah, thanks a lot you bastard! It was my following shocking retort to your above salvo...



> Hunters rock. And anyone who says different is a moron...
> 
> When a Hunter 49 (S/V Sequitur) took an F10-11 storm off Cape Horn in stride with no real damage, that whole debate was snuffed.


...that blew panties up all over CF. You got off with nary a wrist slap, and I got called a troll by a freakin' mod via PM for defending my boat!

Apparently I should have used the term "honorable curmudgeon" instead of "moron".

Thanks a lot whitebread you young punk! Heh-heh.


----------



## TakeFive

Whitebread117 said:


> Smackdaddy apparently coerced the fine folks at the CF Public Decency Dept to relent and un-nuke the thread...


I dunno, the thread is locked. Do they have ANY sense of humor over at CF?



Whitebread117 said:


> ...are Hunters really the death traps that everyone claims them to be?


So let me get this straight. You intentionally post a moronic statement, for no purpose other than to inject some humor in a way that SD clearly would appreciate. He calls you a moron for making a moronic statement, clearly in jest once again. Just two guys poking a little fun at each other. Not only that, but SD deletes his post and re-posts without the offensive (but true) statement (or maybe Ms tight-ass moderator edited it out)....AND THEY STILL LOCKED THE THREAD?

No wonder that CF place is bland city.


----------



## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> I dunno, the thread is locked. Do they have ANY sense of humor over at CF?
> 
> So let me get this straight. You intentionally post a moronic statement, for no purpose other than to inject some humor in a way that SD clearly would appreciate. He calls you a moron for making a moronic statement, clearly in jest once again. Just two guys poking a little fun at each other. Not only that, but SD deletes his post and re-posts without the offensive (but true) statement....AND THEY STILL LOCKED THE THREAD?
> 
> No wonder that CF place is bland city.


Just to be fair, I didn't delete anything from my post. They did.

Honestly, I'd just rather them nuke the thing than do the Leave-and-Lock. It was actually becoming a good thread. Oh well. We can carry on here having fun as we usually do.


----------



## PeterJYC

Damn, you guys are old. 

I thought this would turn into a pick-up line thread.


----------



## smackdaddy

PeterJYC said:


> Damn, you guys are old.
> 
> I thought this would turn into a pick-up line thread.


"Hey there, sassy chick, you ever had a fine wrinkly bitter?"

Beat that punk.


----------



## PeterJYC

Haha.

Have not, smackdaddy but I bet that reminds you of prison.


----------



## smackdaddy

So do you sail?

(And for the 100th time, I'm not Surfesq.)


----------



## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> So, a bunch of geezers arguing over cameras. How special! :laugher
> 
> (Disclosure - I didn't have time to read the whole thread. Maybe other topics have been whined about too.  )
> 
> I'm no young guy, but my son is. And this is what he and his friends want to sail:
> 
> Mach2 Foiling Moths - Home
> 
> Lots of videos on YouTube:


I would definitely say this for the win. I honestly have a hunch that foiling cats are going to change a lot of things in terms of who's sailing (understanding that the Moth is not a cat - but still).


----------



## northoceanbeach

To clarify: why altoids? And what are CG's? Coast guard? That doesn't seem to fit. I'll go read the thread on cruisers forum.


----------



## MedSailor

northoceanbeach said:


> To clarify: why altoids? And what are CG's? Coast guard? That doesn't seem to fit. I'll go read the thread on cruisers forum.


Damn man! The old geezers we're supposed to ask that question! Oh well, when you cast bait you can't choose who bites. 

Now.... how do I answer this without getting banned?

Lets just say that Altoids, and the cool tingly sensation that they can give, can be used to add intetest to activities that involve the mouth. Activities that are famously more common among the young and saved for birthday's among the older set.

Medsailor


----------



## PeterJYC

Heck yeah baby, Smack.

Every weekend.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. I'm sure you do.

Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> Damn man! The old geezers we're supposed to ask that question! Oh well, when you cast bait you can't choose who bites.
> 
> Now.... how do I answer this without getting banned?
> 
> Lets just say that Altoids, and the cool tingly sensation that they can give, can be used to add intetest to activities that involve the mouth. Activities that are famously more common among the young and saved for birthday's among the older set.
> 
> Medsailor


On a sailboat correct? We must keep this on topic, you now.


----------



## northoceanbeach

Oh. Those things. I'm not a fan. I'm more of a backwoods adventurer if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? I can explain it. Is there an emoticon for a starfish? I'll have to look. It's very nautical so there should be. Altoids have no place in the woods.


----------



## SailRedemption

Oh goodness, you guys can skew off topic so far haha! 

Good grace, let's not hear about anything backwoods with starfish! I would rather watch hours of amateur GoPro videos with heinous audio quality. 

Does anyone have a favorite YouTube video about sailing with good audio and/or music? No instructionals please, something uplifting from the current state of conversation. Haha!


----------



## paikea

smackdaddy said:


> On a sailboat correct? We must keep this on topic, you now.


Of course he was talking about sailboats and sailing! 
Otherwise the last sentence would have been something like "attempted on birthdays for the older set".

... and I think I just reinvented the definition of getting myself in trouble.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
> You mean, like all those alleged newbs in the Salty Dawg Rally, where "Just Do It" might as well be the rally's official motto?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist... )
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you couldn't. As I've always said, completely different kettle of hamsters. A cruising rally is pretty much the antithesis of what every young punk listed in that thread is doing, wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...

Keep digging, dude... 

No, a cruising rally like the Caribbean 1500 - where "the experts... take the worry out of choosing the departure time" and make other important decisions for you - is antithetical to your young punk's style...

Sailing with the Salty Dawgs, however - where all decision/choices are the sole responsibility of the skipper, and the skipper alone - is in line with your "Just Do It" approach of your young punks...

And, at least one of your New Gen examples has sailed in a rally... Well, at least she _tried_ to... Teresa Carey was on the Saga 43 KINSHIP skippered by 1500 guru Rick Palm for the ARC a couple of years ago, until they abandoned the rally and returned to Las Palmas after 2 days...


----------



## smackdaddy

BoatyardBoy said:


> Oh goodness, you guys can skew off topic so far haha!
> 
> Good grace, let's not hear about anything backwoods with starfish! I would rather watch hours of amateur GoPro videos with heinous audio quality.
> 
> Does anyone have a favorite YouTube video about sailing with good audio and/or music? No instructionals please, something uplifting from the current state of conversation. Haha!


If you can't get uplifted by this, there is no hope:






Now that's living like a young punk. The advice? Learn to sail really well really fast so you can be invited on one of these trips.


----------



## SailRedemption

smackdaddy said:


> If you can't get uplifted by this, there is no hope:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's living like a young punk. The advice? Learn to sail really well really fast so you can be invited on one of these trips.


Yes! I saw that one! Made my mouth open for the whole video. Haha! Such a gorgeous boat, and all that GoPro footage, hahahaha


----------



## FirstCandC

Sailing Seafari Alberg 30 - YouTube


----------



## Whitebread117

Like the video, got to say those "young punks" were annoying. But the boat was cool.


----------



## Whitebread117

Got to say, video spoke more of "young punks with white collar connections" than just "young punks". However that's said from a point of jealousy so take that for what it's worth (nothing).

This is mostly a post so I can pad my count until I can link to useful things. I don't have to put up with these geezer rules at the geezer CF, btw......


----------



## Whitebread117

Only 5 more posts until I'm proven (by server rules) to not be a troll.....


----------



## RainDog

The ultimate proof that all Young Punks turn into Old Geezers: NME News Butthole Surfers drummer picks up 'Yard Of The Month' award in Austin neighbourhood | NME.COM


----------



## Whitebread117

Thank you for that insight, I'm officially a geezer and shopping for a retirement home now.


F*ck, what is the world coming to.....


----------



## Whitebread117

duplicate


----------



## Whitebread117

uh oh, someone has 10 posts. Heads up, links incoming


----------



## Whitebread117

OK, so someone requested video....

Not "young punks", but using drones which is most definitely anti sailing establishment (at least for now).....

2014 Heineken Regatta filmed by a Drone on Vimeo

Song is older. If you want to see best use of this song search Youtube for Jeb Corliss and/or "Grinding the Crack". He's an animal. However I like the song in this particular appliation.

Good video, good song: 2014 St Barths Bucket Filmed by a Drone on Vimeo
The Pigeon Vision folks are killing it, all of their stuff is good.....

And both songs still bring the win, overplayed or not....


----------



## smackdaddy

RainDog said:


> The ultimate proof that all Young Punks turn into Old Geezers: NME News Butthole Surfers drummer picks up 'Yard Of The Month' award in Austin neighbourhood | NME.COM


Now that's awesome. I hear the Black Flag bassist is now quite the Bingo aficionado.


----------



## sailvayu

Interesting thread and as an old geezer I cannot help but throw in my curmudgeonly thoughts. First Altiods....my girl friend loves those 

Ok back to cameras. I just got a Gopro a few months ago and I love it. But I see it as a secondary camera to add to video shot with a regular camera. The sound does suck but I do not think sound is important if you mix it with sound from the regular camera. The gopro clips should be layered in to make the video a bit more exciting. Videos shot with nothing but a gopro tend to look amateurish unless really well done.

I once talked to a video pro and he said sound is 70% of any video and I think he is right. The one thing I hate in most sailing videos is the wind noise. This will ruin a good video. That and cheesy sound tracks by stix and Christoffer Cross! I know most of us just do this for fun but try to reduce the wind noise with a hood or something it will make a huge difference and please find some creative background music. (Stick a little piece of foam over the mic will make a huge difference.)

Ok that is my curmudgeon rant for the day and if you want to watch my amateur videos and pick on me here you go https://www.youtube.com/user/Sailvayu


----------



## smackdaddy

sailva - not bad. Put some Knuckle Puck music on those vids and you'll be hootin' it!

(Actually, some great stuff that I can use for my projects. Thanks.)


----------



## sailvayu

Knuckle puck music? guess I am getting old, but not too old for the Altiods lol

And thanks for the compliment. You will notice I use a lapel mic in the newer videos. Got a wireless one on ebay cheap and it is the best thing I have done for decent sound at least when talking. (Or as my GF calls it running my mouth lol) My only problem is I have too many repair videos and not enough sailing ones 

Ok back to editing......now where did I put that Christoffer Cross album


----------



## GeorgeB

O.K. Guys, I don’t want to sound like an old geezer (I’m probably younger than Smack anyways) so can we thread drift back to GoPros? So, the GoPro 4 is predicted for either this October or next March, should I be waiting or is the “3” still a pretty good camera? And what makes the “black” better than the “silver”? Can anyone give a comparision?


----------



## sailvayu

I know nothing of the gopro 4 yet so cannot answer that one but the difference in the white silver and black is the video resolution black being best. Now time to research the 4


----------



## PBzeer

Once you have your raw video, you can do quite a bit with Windows free Live Movie Maker (7,8).
Adjust audio level from recording.
Mute audio from recording and add music.
Add captions and/or narration.
Trim and edit.
Change playback speed (requires splicing to just do portions at different speeds)
Add effects (particularly when making slideshows)

I do slideshows of my still pics, then add music. And though the following only has a few of my sailing pics, it's my best example of what you can do with this free program. (and yeah, it's a pop ballad, but it was part of a larger project)


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> O.K. Guys, I don't want to sound like an old geezer (I'm probably younger than Smack anyways) so can we thread drift back to GoPros? So, the GoPro 4 is predicted for either this October or next March, should I be waiting or is the "3" still a pretty good camera? And what makes the "black" better than the "silver"? Can anyone give a comparision?


Wait for the 4 if you can. Here is a comparison:






Sorry, I couldn't resist punking you with a goofy Dutch dude.

If it does have 4K as rumored, that's cool.


----------



## smackdaddy

Now that all these geezers are busy looking at cameras, next question for CG2.0:

*What advice would you give others your age on how to get started sailing? *

I remember when I first started looking into it - it seemed so freakin' complicated and scary...

-How do you make the boat go upwind? What if I can't do it?
-How will I ever remember the names of all this weird stuff?
-No way can I fix something if it breaks - way too complicated.
-What does "reefing" mean and when should I do it? And how do I do it?
-Way too many ropes.

...it just seemed so incredibly technical. And it is, in a way, but it's not really, it just takes some time a practice. And that's the most fun thing about it.

Did you feel the same - and how did you get around that?


----------



## PBzeer

As cliched as it sounds, one step at a time. And this is where books can be of benefit, to learn the mechanics of sailing. Once you have an understanding of the how to (and why), then you can apply it in practice. And don't get hung up on terminology, that will come with experience.


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## Sal Paradise

I think , being young and sailing with friends, I was always willing to just point the boat into the wind and put the sails up. I never had a boat that wouldn't naturally go forward in the wind. It was an adventure. This one step at a time crap was for old people, unless by steps you meant first buying expensive scotch and then bags of ice.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - I tend to agree. Like the whole "start in a dinghy" thing. No way. I at least wanted a boat big enough to sleep on and an icebox for the beer. Yeah, yeah, I know...you "get the feel for sailing properly" in a dinghy. But that's not cruising.

One of the young punks in the videos put it best for me saying that when they toured their first boat they thought it was the coolest "fort" they'd ever seen. THAT'S the idea I think, a really cool fort that can take you to far away places and not use much gas. That's magic.

"Proper sailing" is far secondary to that.


----------



## paikea

smackdaddy said:


> Now that all these geezers are busy looking at cameras, next question for CG2.0:
> 
> *What advice would you give others your age on how to get started sailing? *
> 
> I remember when I first started looking into it - it seemed so freakin' complicated and scary...
> 
> -How do you make the boat go upwind? What if I can't do it?
> -How will I ever remember the names of all this weird stuff?
> -No way can I fix something if it breaks - way too complicated.
> -What does "reefing" mean and when should I do it? And how do I do it?
> -Way too many ropes.
> 
> ...it just seemed so incredibly technical. And it is, in a way, but it's not really, it just takes some time a practice. And that's the most fun thing about it.
> 
> Did you feel the same - and how did you get around that?


Maybe my age doesn't fit in your category, but that's pretty much exactly what I feel now. I read a lot, literally all I read now is books about boats, about cruising, about sailing, about theory like navigation and sextant and weather and diesel engines and pretty much anything boat related, and reading this forum of course. Often I get lost in the terminology, especially for English not being my mother language. I went over the Chapman's full chapter on boat terminology one by one, patiently, because without it its like reading blindfolded. Yes, when people started talking here about reefing or rigging, I looked it up so that I can read and comprehend what's being written. Did I fully get it, surely not, but I got bits and pieces and next time when I am exposed to it, I already have some additional data to make sense of the next information. 
So all I do is read, and study, and just booked RYA theory classes that I need to combine with some practical classes, and now also relocating entirely to a location that will help me be exposed 24/7 to all sort of boats and gaining experience. 
The fact that it seems so complicated and alien doesn't scare me, the brain is like a big billion pieces puzzle. All I need is to put together bits and piece of it and form some partial images. Its the same when on a boat and I really freak out of certain things about it that feel uneasy or when sailing it, but that's only because the brain is not yet mapped for this. Its just a natural part of the process. Once I do it few times, and then a lot, it becomes second nature. 
Its sad how often people give up on a new thing just because the first time feels too complicated or too uneasy. But its just giving the brain time to remap with the new data and the new sensations. 
But it takes focus and determination.


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## PBzeer

No, it's not like buy a dinghy, then ...

It's as in face each challenge as it comes, one foot in front of the other.

I was 53 when I bought my first sailboat, a Mirage 5.5 (21'), and had only sailed a few times back in my teens. I didn't take any classes, or read anything, just bought the boat. By the end of that summer I'd gotten a Hunter 26, which I sailed around our 7 mi long inland lake for 2 more seasons. Then bought my current boat, in which I've been from Clear Lake, TX to Annapolis, MD, with all but one month as a singlehander.


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## capecodda

Sorry Smack, but little boats RULE in the HOOD.

Yea, yea, I can recite all that old geyser trash about how it's better to learn on something responsive where you can feel the wind, you'll develop the right instincts,...blah, blah, blah....I'm sure I've posted this comment someplace trying to correct some young punk's "why can't I start at CEO, I have no experience, but I majored in art and French literature so hire me now to run your Biotech company" attitude. Yea, and once and a while I give em credit for coming up with something entirely useless like the social networking thing and getting otherwise sensible old farts to pay huge multiples on their non-existent profits (BITTER, NOT!)

But, OMG, I'm in my 6th decade on this "ball of confusion" and we run Wednesday night beer cans in 420's, with a group all in the 5th and 6th decades. These little boats plane, got chutes, got trapeze, and tip over a lot. For the nanny society group, don't worry, a rescue boat is standing by, and often required as the old geysers can't right em. For the other side, don't worry, you're not paying for it unless you willing pay the yacht club dues.

So take that you young punks...we're ready to slam dunk you on starboard tack hollering STARBOARD with our protest flags flying, while you're still wondering is that your right hand or left, oh who cares, we don't write with a pencil anymore anyway

Oh, and Smack, thank you for this thread...I was getting board on the board if you know what I mean


----------



## smackdaddy

paikea said:


> Maybe my age doesn't fit in your category, but that's pretty much exactly what I feel now. I read a lot, literally all I read now is books about boats, about cruising, about sailing, about theory like navigation and sextant and weather and diesel engines and pretty much anything boat related, and reading this forum of course. Often I get lost in the terminology, especially for English not being my mother language. I went over the Chapman's full chapter on boat terminology one by one, patiently, because without it its like reading blindfolded. Yes, when people started talking here about reefing or rigging, I looked it up so that I can read and comprehend what's being written. Did I fully get it, surely not, but I got bits and pieces and next time when I am exposed to it, I already have some additional data to make sense of the next information.
> So all I do is read, and study, and just booked RYA theory classes that I need to combine with some practical classes, and now also relocating entirely to a location that will help me be exposed 24/7 to all sort of boats and gaining experience.
> The fact that it seems so complicated and alien doesn't scare me, the brain is like a big billion pieces puzzle. All I need is to put together bits and piece of it and form some partial images. Its the same when on a boat and I really freak out of certain things about it that feel uneasy or when sailing it, but that's only because the brain is not yet mapped for this. Its just a natural part of the process. Once I do it few times, and then a lot, it becomes second nature.
> Its sad how often people give up on a new thing just because the first time feels too complicated or too uneasy. But its just giving the brain time to remap with the new data and the new sensations.
> But it takes focus and determination.


I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. That's exactly how I approach things. And when I first came on SN, I'd only taken a couple of sailing lessons, so I had no idea what people were saying...topping lift?...cunningham?...VMG?...vang?

But honestly, the reading makes it far more intimidating than it actually is. That's what's so weird about it. You see a book like Chapman's and you think - no way. But if you can just get on a boat with someone that knows how to sail - you'll learn it in a few hours. Seriously. Sailing itself is not nearly as complicated as it seems when you're pouring through all the books. Sure, perfecting it will take the rest of your life - but sailing is easy.

PB is absolutely right in that regard. You don't have to know celestial navigation or how to bleed a diesel to get out there and sail the hell out of a boat.


----------



## paikea

smackdaddy said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. That's exactly how I approach things. And when I first came on SN, I'd only taken a couple of sailing lessons, so I had no idea what people were saying...topping lift?...cunningham?...VMG?...vang?
> 
> But honestly, the reading makes it far more intimidating than it actually is. That's what's so weird about it. You see a book like Chapman's and you think - no way. But if you can just get on a boat with someone that knows how to sail - you'll learn it in a few hours. Seriously. Sailing itself is not nearly as complicated as it seems when you're pouring through all the books. Sure, perfecting it will take the rest of your life - but sailing is easy.
> 
> PB is absolutely right in that regard. You don't have to know celestial navigation or how to bleed a diesel to get out there and sail the hell out of a boat.


I am sure everyone feels this way. Now the reading part, I also do a lot of reading because I cant do a lot of sailing right this moment. And one way or the other, when I set my mind to something I keep the focus and do what I can that gets me closer to the goal every single day. 
PB is indeed correct, the best way to learn is to get out there on a boat and although I can do my job from anywhere in the world, right now I am unfortunately in a location where I cant just get on a boat every evening or every weekend. So meanwhile I also study. I don't just read theory sailing books, I read several books in parallel, theory and then the other books written by sailors and their expeditions (ie right now is Bernard Moitessier), so I combine them and that makes it pleasurable (my photography cries these days, but it will have to wait till I get the ball rolling on sailing). 
True, one doesn't need navigation and engine theory and so much more to just sail a boat, but one needs it when planning to do long crossings at one point. Everything helps and I don't like to depend on things I could have easily learnt with a bit of discipline. 
Lots of sailing is also extremely crucial because in certain moments one doesn't have the luxury to think about their next steps and what to do in certain dangerous situations that easily turn into serious situations. Regardless how much theory I know, without that experience that gets imprinted in the brain the theory is useless. I want sailing to become an instinctual aspect. That means sailing a lot and sailing all sort of boats. 
It is indeed scary, but I always liked to see how far I can push my capabilities.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> PB is absolutely right in that regard. You don't have to know celestial navigation or how to bleed a diesel to get out there and sail the hell out of a boat.


Hmmm, I'd hardly put celestial navigation and knowing how to bleed your engine in the same category of required skills today...

Given the reliance upon their engines by many cruisers today, I might rate the ability to bleed your diesel right at the top of the list... 

OK, so maybe it should be #2... right behind understanding how to use the 'TRACK' mode on your autopilot, to automatically steer you to the next waypoint, while ensuring your XTE never exceeds the beam of the boat...


----------



## SVAuspicious

paikea said:


> Often I get lost in the terminology, especially for English not being my mother language.


You do not want to hear my feeble attempts at French or German (my French in particular seems to dramatically improve the abilities of French speakers to speak English).

The two most difficult language areas to translate in my experience are niche technical terms and food. Please feel free to ask, remembering that your English is better than some native English speakers (especially Americans *grin*) and the person answering may be incorrect.


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Hmmm, I'd hardly put celestial navigation and knowing how to bleed your engine in the same category of required skills today...
> 
> Given the reliance upon their engines by many cruisers today, I might rate the ability to bleed your diesel right at the top of the list...
> 
> OK, so maybe it should be #2... right behind understanding how to use the 'TRACK' mode on your autopilot, to automatically steer you to the next waypoint, while ensuring your XTE never exceeds the beam of the boat...


Autopilots are awesome - I'll give you that.


----------



## paikea

SVAuspicious said:


> You do not want to hear my feeble attempts at French or German (my French in particular seems to dramatically improve the abilities of French speakers to speak English).
> 
> The two most difficult language areas to translate in my experience are niche technical terms and food. Please feel free to ask, remembering that your English is better than some native English speakers (especially Americans *grin*) and the person answering may be incorrect.


You are always very kind and helpful Dave! Thank you for that. 
I am sure my English isn't perfect and still making mistakes, and thrive to improve it, hence when someone constructively corrects me I say a heartfelt "thank you" and make a note. I welcome these. 
But I also had plenty of people sometimes rudely pointing out the mistakes and then no matter how much I bit my tongue my answer still came out something like: "before criticizing, I would like first to see you spelling in my mother language or for that matter we can even try Japanese".

What I like about reading so much about boats now is that it really greatly improves my vocabulary. And I smile proudly when I see myself writing or speaking boat language. Its literally a new world for me.


----------



## paikea

JonEisberg said:


> Hmmm, I'd hardly put celestial navigation and knowing how to bleed your engine in the same category of required skills today...
> 
> Given the reliance upon their engines by many cruisers today, I might rate the ability to bleed your diesel right at the top of the list...
> 
> OK, so maybe it should be #2... right behind understanding how to use the 'TRACK' mode on your autopilot, to automatically steer you to the next waypoint, while ensuring your XTE never exceeds the beam of the boat...


The funny thing, the instructors I did some sailing courses so far were mentioning that its almost shocking for the basic, simple, common sense things that some people in some boats put out an SOS for, like "my engine is dead, what do I do?" (mind you, they were on sailboat). I would be embarrassed to do that. 
A bit of common sense goes a long way. 
I was once solo trekking in a remote location, and I meet a two brothers trekking together. We end up at a cross of mountains paths and we all decided to climb a small peak off the usual path, a little walk to it of about few miles, but were going to leave the heavy backpacks at that path cross. So there we go, and I look at them a bit shocked for not taking anything at all with them. I still took a small bag with my documents, with the map/compass, an emergency blanket, light, a little food, the PBL (!), etc. So many things can go wrong in these few miles in and out and the climb. You think, you try to be prepared. It doesn't take anything else but common sense.

It seems that happens a lot on a boating arena too. Unprepared people that not only risk their own life but also others.


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## PBzeer

Learning anything is a combination of different things. To ignore anything that adds to your knowledge base, is simply cheating yourself of a possible resource. That doesn't mean you have to have a Phd in sailing, just that the more you know, the better prepared you are.

I spent 7 months on my refit, before heading for the East Coast from TX .... the first time. After a week, I was back at Clear Lake. Because even though I'd put so much effort into getting the boat ready, I neglected to get me ready. So after 4 days of sitting, contemplating my comedy of errors, I turned around and went back.

In a way though, I was lucky, because it was one heck of a wake up call.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Now that all these geezers are busy looking at cameras, next question for CG2.0:
> 
> *What advice would you give others your age on how to get started sailing? *
> 
> I remember when I first started looking into it - it seemed so freakin' complicated and scary...
> 
> -How do you make the boat go upwind? What if I can't do it?
> -How will I ever remember the names of all this weird stuff?
> -No way can I fix something if it breaks - way too complicated.
> -What does "reefing" mean and when should I do it? And how do I do it?
> -Way too many ropes.
> 
> ...it just seemed so incredibly technical. And it is, in a way, but it's not really, it just takes some time a practice. And that's the most fun thing about it.
> 
> Did you feel the same - and how did you get around that?


I think a most excellent response to that might come from a guy who himself was a Young Punk 40 years ago...

Alvah Simon's piece in the current 40th Anniversary Issue of CRUISING WORLD, entitled "Back in the Day", is very well worth reading...

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Or, as Alvah so aptly addresses all the 'modernity' that defines the sailing lifestyles of so many today:

"The forwarder I go, the behinder I get..."


----------



## Minnesail

Sal Paradise said:


> buying expensive scotch and then bags of ice.


Dude, if it's expensive Scotch, don't go ruining it by putting it on ice!


----------



## SailRedemption

I thought this video was really cool








Minnesail said:


> Dude, if it's expensive Scotch, don't go ruining it by putting it on ice!


----------



## Whitebread117

BoatyardBoy said:


> I thought this video was really cool
> 
> Atlantic Crossing on a Superyacht. - YouTube
> 
> Anchorman - I love scotch - YouTube


I could have done with a bit more real time and a bit less time-lapse, but I was still cool with it until they threw the 55 gallon Texaco oil/fuel drum overboard. (Jump to 3:03 if you just want the relevant few seconds of the video)

W.T.F.

Your empty soup/vegetable can (in deep water), sure. But not a freakin petroleum drum. Even empty, there's still residue. We've got enough of that still floating around thanks to BP and Exxon, no excuse to be throwing that kind of trash over the side.


----------



## smackdaddy

Whitebread117 said:


> I could have done with a bit more real time and a bit less time-lapse, but I was still cool with it until they threw the 55 gallon Texaco oil/fuel drum overboard. (Jump to 3:03 if you just want the relevant few seconds of the video)
> 
> W.T.F.
> 
> Your empty soup/vegetable can (in deep water), sure. But not a freakin petroleum drum. Even empty, there's still residue. We've got enough of that still floating around thanks to BP and Exxon, no excuse to be throwing that kind of trash over the side.


I think they were just dolphin hunting. Needed more pâté.


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## Whitebread117

Odd, they didn't look Japanese to me


----------



## Minnesail

smackdaddy said:


> I think they were just dolphin hunting. Needed more pâté.


Dolphin is good. Tastes like spotted owl.


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## Whitebread117

Well I wouldn't know, you jerks haven't left enough spotted owls to feed the rest of us.


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## sailvayu

A bit ironic they put that shot in the middle of the dolphin footage.


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## smackdaddy

Oh sure, make fun.

Obviously you guys have never hunted dolphin with Texaco oil drums - an age old method of the ancient Visigoths. 

Do you know how freakin' hard it is to nail one of those cute suckers under sail????


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## Whitebread117

These young punks trying to pretend they are old school....I didn't see a single guy on the bow with a white beard and harpoon. Amateurs......


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## sailvayu

"Do you know how freakin' hard it is to nail one of those cute suckers under sail????"

About as hard as it is to reach an agreement about the Salty Dawg Rally in an online forum?


----------



## JonEisberg

Whitebread117 said:


> I could have done with a bit more real time and a bit less time-lapse, but I was still cool with it until they threw the 55 gallon Texaco oil/fuel drum overboard. (Jump to 3:03 if you just want the relevant few seconds of the video)
> 
> W.T.F.


Yeah, I was shocked by that, as well... Hard to imagine anyone would actually be stupid enough to include that in the vid, I simply assumed it might have had some other purpose? Mid-ocean MOB drill, or something? That one's really hard to fathom...

Anyway, interesting follow-up to their crossing... I wonder if the Young Punks were still in command when she was put on a reef in Antigua?

Ooops...












> Meanwhile last week a new 82 foot Swan, which left Finland at the same time as Andrew (Lytle) left there in a new 90 foot Swan, has been aground on one of the reefs here for 24 hours and has done itself a power of no good but could have been a lot worse...
> 
> Even the professionals can get it wrong. ONGHIARA has a mangled rudder,
> badly scratched hull and appears to have problems with her keel.
> 
> Oriole's Web Diary - Liming in Antigua


----------



## smackdaddy

Young Punks did that? Are you sure?



> The mate who was not in any way responsible for this error also comes from Newton Ferrers! Even the professionals can get it wrong.


----------



## jak3b

Whitebread117 said:


> Well I wouldn't know, you jerks haven't left enough spotted owls to feed the rest of us.


Its OK it all tastes like chicken anyhow.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Young Punks did that? Are you sure?


I have no idea, that's why I said _"I wonder"..._ 

However, I think it's safe to presume one or more of the crew featured in that video qualified as a "Professional" sailor... I don't think too many yachts worth several million dollars get sent across oceans without someone aboard the insurer regards as a "professional", and who holds some sort of license or endorsement...


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> I have no idea, that's why I said _"I wonder"..._
> 
> However, I think it's safe to presume one or more of the crew featured in that video qualified as a "Professional" sailor... I don't think too many yachts worth several million dollars get sent across oceans without someone aboard the insurer regards as a "professional", and who holds some sort of license or endorsement...


Oh, I see. Crap stirrer.

Well, obviously, that's why you never trust professionals. Heh-heh.

Actually, their blog says this upon their arrival in Antigua:



> Land Ho!&#8230; after 13 days or so, we sight Antigua. The engine and generator cut out 20m before we made it to the dock. I'd call that just about perfect. *We spent new years partying in Antigua, but for now, the owners are on for almost 4 weeks. *Cruising around St Martin (Dutch/French), Anguilla (British), St Barts (French) and the British Virgin Islands (Polish).


Backpack Of Cowabunga » The Atlantic Crossing? Dolphins and Scategories

Likely the Old Geezer owners put her on the reef.

Because a few weeks later the Young Punks are on the boat in St. Martin then on from there (i.e. - not fired):

Backpack Of Cowabunga » The Leeward Islands? Antigua to BVI?s

Drum chucking aside - I like these Young Punks. They are livin' it BIG!


----------



## emcentar

paikea said:


> The funny thing, the instructors I did some sailing courses so far were mentioning that its almost shocking for the basic, simple, common sense things that some people in some boats put out an SOS for, like "my engine is dead, what do I do?" (mind you, they were on sailboat). I would be embarrassed to do that.


Well, I don't know about that. I sailed a Flying Scott with no engine for five years, and that was the only period of my sailing existence so far where I had to be repeatedly towed off the water. You aren't going anywhere if the wind dies, and oddly enough, my boss doesn't consider that a reasonable excuse for not showing up to work the next day.

When I got my Pearson last year the wind died on my first sail out and I went 'whoo-hoo!' and turned on the engine. Way cooler than begging someone to tow me home.

And then there's the obvious other reason - most marinas won't let you sail into your slip (for good reason, the punk who tried it in my fairway hit my boat and every boat between him and the bay) so can't go home except under engine power. So if you can't fix your engine out on the water, you need a tow home.

Edited to add: Re-reading your post, I realize you say SOS, not a less urgent call. Um, yeah, having your engine die is not typically an SOS situation, unless there are other dangerous circumstances involved.

E.


----------



## smackdaddy

Go the Cowabunga Young Punks!!!


----------



## Whitebread117

Tahiti to Tonga vid - one of the better I've seen recently.

Regarding the "young punks" theme of this thread, I want to take a minute to log a couple of thoughts that have been on my mind for the past few days:




Allow me to digress and speak of the "young punks" for a moment regarding an issue I see regularly on all the sailing/cruising boards (those geared toward mainstream sailors, conservative retirees, and anarchists alike). There are a number of folks out there who couldn't care less about "proper" sailing - I am one of them. As are a lot of the younger people who didn't grow up in the (dwindling) sailing environment.

I've seen a lot of advice regarding learning to sail that involves a progression of "buy a dinghy", "pay for classes", and then "charter for several years" before one is ready to sail by oneself. I find this to be total b.s.

Sailing isn't hard. I first learned to sail at age 8, in a canoe, with a 55 gallon contractor trash bag strung between two paddles. Who knew, throw a flat surface into the wind and you receive propulsion? Going other than dead downwind requires a shaped foil, but we (humans) have been doing that for about 7,000 years now so it's not exactly rocket science.

Sailing fast/well and getting the very most from your boat - yes a dinghy and some classes would be excellent. Using a cheap sailboat for free motive power to travel economically- that's easy. And that's how a lot of folks look at sailing.

I'm not a "young" punk anymore (34), but I'd proudly claim the "punk" label and I don't have years under my belt to qualify for "old" so I can relate to a lot of the younger folks. There's a lot of people out there who might have in the past done the cheap flight/backpacking route, but in the age of much more expensive airfare are looking at other options. Sailboats are a very good value on the miles-per-dollar-of-capital-investment scale (if you are willing to buy older-but-cared-for). Trading time for $, but if you strike airfare and lodging costs from the travel budget suddenly that one-time capital expenditure for a boat looks quite cheap. Honestly if we didn't have 2 kids the wife and I'd already be gone on a Pearson, Cape Dory, Southern Cross, Watkins, or some other sub 30' plastic fantastic. Since we've got 2 kids and a lovably retarded dog we can't part with, I've got about a year left of making bank to check out for the long term on a vessel that'll house 4 comfortably.

That being said, 5 knots vs 7 knots means nothing to me when I have no time constraints. Either way it's free transportation. I don't need the bleeding edge to get from A to B. If I could afford to fuel a largish motor yacht or (better yet) first class airfare to everywhere I want to see then I wouldn't bother with the sailboat. Since i can't, a sailboat is a travel enabler for those on a budget and as long as it gets to the destination without costing me a lot of money then we're all good.

I personally have a fair amount of knowledge about driving with single-minded purpose. Strafing apexes, heel/toe shifting, steering with the throttle, etc. None of those skills are needed to drive a car from point A to point B if your only interest is economical transportation. It's the same with boats, and I don't think that a lot of sailors understand that viewpoint. They choose to claim a lot of skill is required to throw a tarp in the wind and travel via harnessed thermal energy when in fact it's a very simple process unless you want absolute maximum efficiency.

That being said, I'll step off my soapbox. I've just had those thoughts accumulating for several days while perusing various sailing threads and this seemed like the right spot to vent.

Cheers 

Andrew


----------



## smackdaddy

+1, White. You absolutely nailed it.

I hadn't thought of this aspect...



Whitebread117 said:


> There's a lot of people out there who might have in the past done the cheap flight/backpacking route, but in the age of much more expensive airfare are looking at other options. Sailboats are a very good value on the miles-per-dollar-of-capital-investment scale (if you are willing to buy older-but-cared-for).
> 
> ...
> 
> Since i can't, a sailboat is a travel enabler for those on a budget and as long as it gets to the destination without costing me a lot of money then we're all good.


... but it makes perfect sense as to why we're seeing more younger people taking it up. That makes me happy.

Your post is exactly what this thread is all about. Thanks.


----------



## Bill-Rangatira

smackdaddy said:


> +1, White. You absolutely nailed it.
> 
> I hadn't thought of this aspect...
> 
> ... but it makes perfect sense as to why we're seeing more younger people taking it up. That makes me happy.
> 
> Your post is exactly what this thread is all about. Thanks.


+1 on your +1


----------



## JonEisberg

What's the difference between a yacht, and a _"Super Yacht" ?_

The size of the jerry jugs, perhaps?

What a pity, I would have thought 500 gallons or so in the main tanks would be sufficient to get a Swan 82 from Las Palmas to the Caribbean... Damn, looks like even the Young Punks are still as reliant upon diesel as the Old Breed...

)

(In fairness, I know it was a delivery, they're on a schedule, etc... Still, that's a sad sight aboard such an awesome sailing machine, at the start of a classic tradewinds passage )


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> What's the difference between a yacht, and a _"Super Yacht" ?_


You have a yacht. I have a Super Yacht. That's the difference...always.


----------



## Whitebread117

It's like this.....if you use correct noun in any situation, it stands alone.

"I own a car."
"I own a McMansion."
"I own a yacht."

If you are insecure, or feel the need to justify your purchase of a mediocre commodity, you put "super" in front of it.

"I own a super car."
"I own a super McMansion."
"I own a super yacht."

Right Smack?


----------



## smackdaddy

Whitebread117 said:


> It's like this.....if you use correct noun in any situation, it stands alone.
> 
> "I own a car."
> "I own a McMansion."
> "I own a yacht."
> 
> If you are insecure, or feel the need to justify your purchase of a mediocre commodity, you put "super" in front of it.
> 
> "I own a super car."
> "I own a super McMansion."
> "I own a super yacht."
> 
> Right Smack?


Exactly.

Wait....


----------



## SailRedemption

Yea when I first saw that barrel toss, I didn't know what to think. My first was some sort of buoy to sail about or drill. 

Oddly enough, I agree with White as well. I started out racing with a buddy after college and fell in love with it. 7 years out from there I bought my own boat, which is big for someone my age I guess but it was a good price and it's going to be my home. I haven't taken any ASA classes or have any sailing specific license, I do have a 2nd mate oceans unlimited with other things but that doesn't apply. I'm ready to shred some water when I get home from work and sail my boat as best I can and enjoy every minute of it! 

So maybe I am a young punk at 27 and skipped a few steps according to the older guys. Luckily, the older guys I sail with were happy I got the boat, now the club has another long distance boat haha!


----------



## PBzeer

> So maybe I am a young punk at 27 and skipped a few steps according to the older guys.


The only steps necessary are the one's you find necessary to operate your vessel in a safe and responsible manner.


----------



## DJR351

Whitebread117 said:


> It's like this.....if you use correct noun in any situation, it stands alone.
> 
> "I own a car."
> "I own a McMansion."
> "I own a yacht."
> 
> If you are insecure, or feel the need to justify your purchase of a mediocre commodity, you put "super" in front of it.
> 
> "I own a super car."
> "I own a super McMansion."
> "I own a super yacht."
> 
> Right Smack?


Super Yacht.....pfft!

A Mega Yacht for me please....


----------



## Andrew65

smackdaddy said:


> Go the Cowabunga Young Punks!!!


Smack,
From the bottom of my keel, thank you for the videos. It's fire for the soul in these pre-winter days living aboard to outfit up here in Norway for when I cut my docklines with the biggest smashing blow for all to hear.


----------



## smackdaddy

The "Ku-bunga" heard round the world, Andrew! Stay warm and focused, dude!


----------



## Andrew65

Don't worry, you'll hear it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Very cool video from a Young Punk back in the day. Engineless Triton 28 from Florida to China. Great series:


----------



## SavvySalt

Hopefully this isn't a repeat. I think Riley and Elayna of La Vagabonde merit mention in this thread:
















Not that I'm calling anybody a punk...


----------



## Slayer

Can't be true......they set out with just a small amount of experience and no ASA certification!!!!!  


Seriously, I applaud them. Having problems but seem to manage them well. I haven't looked to see if subscribing to follow them entails paying something, but if it's free I will follow their progress. I am certain they can teach me things, if not about sailing then about living life 

And theme music from High Plains Drifter!!


----------



## SavvySalt

I'm subscribed to their youtube channel, hasn't cost me anything yet


----------



## smackdaddy

vtp said:


> Hopefully this isn't a repeat. I think Riley and Elayna of La Vagabonde merit mention in this thread:
> 
> ...
> 
> Not that I'm calling anybody a punk...


I really like these punks. They are living it right. Did you see the "Russian Cocaine" thing? I gotta try that.

As for their boat though - I'm starting to be very wary about the Bene Cyclades rudder build quality. While I was slumming at CF, one of the cool Yard Guys there put up a video of another Cyclades (_Blue Pearl_) that had exactly the same problem and sunk...necessitating a rescue. It was ugly:











Now seeing this same issue on _La Vagabond_...something ain't right.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> As for their boat though - I'm starting to be very wary about the Bene Cyclades rudder build quality. While I was slumming at CF, one of the cool Yard Guys there put up a video of another Cyclades (_Blue Pearl_) that had exactly the same problem and sunk...necessitating a rescue. It was ugly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now seeing this same issue on _La Vagabond_...*something ain't right.*


You're joking, right?

The Beneteau Cyclades carries a Category A CE Rating... How could it possibly be anything other than _"built for and perfectly suited to bluewater cruising. Period."_

)


----------



## chall03

At least the fridge opens on both tacks. 

Worst trip of my life was delivering a Cyclades 43 from Sydney to the Whitsundays. Lightning strike and lost all electronics + engine.


----------



## Classic30

chall03 said:


> Worst trip of my life was delivering a Cyclades 43 from Sydney to the Whitsundays. Lightning strike and lost all electronics + engine.


You mean you actually had to *SAIL*?!???  

Oh, the horror of the thought..   :laugher :laugher


----------



## SailRN

I think it takes a while to become a bitter old dude, or are some people born that way?


----------



## aeventyr60

Classic30 said:


> You mean you actually had to *SAIL*?!???
> 
> Oh, the horror of the thought..   :laugher :laugher


Something the brown water guys down under occasionally have to do...:laugher


----------



## Sal Paradise

S/V Savor Grace said:


> I think it takes a while to become a bitter old dude, or are some people born that way?


It's generally a 20 year process , but some people are fast learners.


----------



## MedSailor

These young punks are teaching the older set how to use go-pros and youtube to make enough money to sail forever. Eat your heart out Lynn and Larry Pardey! What's the royalty on a sailing book these days? A couple dollars? These guys get $2,600 per video they upload. And uploading they are!

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/2498353-post88.html

MedSailor


----------



## TakeFive

MedSailor said:


> These young punks are teaching the older set how to use go-pros and youtube to make enough money to sail forever. Eat your heart out Lynn and Larry Pardey! What's the royalty on a sailing book these days? A couple dollars? These guys get $2,600 per video they upload. And uploading they are!
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/2498353-post88.html
> 
> MedSailor


Huh? Where did you see $2600/video?


----------



## MedSailor

TakeFive said:


> Huh? Where did you see $2600/video?


Support SV Delos Sailing creating an AMAZING round-the-world adventure!

Front and center on their main patreon page.

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> These young punks are teaching the older set how to use go-pros and youtube to make enough money to sail forever. Eat your heart out Lynn and Larry Pardey! What's the royalty on a sailing book these days? A couple dollars? These guys get $2,600 per video they upload. And uploading they are!
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/2498353-post88.html
> 
> MedSailor


THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how the young punks roll.

Awesome.

I see DrakeP is also on Patreon.


----------



## chall03

MedSailor said:


> These young punks are teaching the older set how to use go-pros and youtube to make enough money to sail forever.
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/2498353-post88.html
> 
> MedSailor


I am not sure $2600 will see you sailing forever on an Amel super maramu. In a lot of places you would be hard pressed to get change from that after a week in a marina.

It is still handy change nonetheless for doing something they enjoy. They are great videos, good on them.

Perhaps someone should let the Pardeys know the new mantra should be " go now, go large, GO PRO"


----------



## MedSailor

chall03 said:


> I am not sure $2600 will see you sailing forever on an Amel super maramu. In a lot of places you would be hard pressed to get change from that after a week in a marina.


Yeah, but they've put out quite a few videos since starting up with Patreon. Nearly one a week. That's over 100K/year.



chall03 said:


> Perhaps someone should let the Pardeys know the new mantra should be " go now, go large, GO PRO"


Awesome! Trademark this saying now before it's too late! :laugher

Med


----------



## chall03

MedSailor said:


> Awesome! Trademark this saying now before it's too late! :laugher
> 
> Med


Only after I sign up to Patreon and montize it in a vid. My selfie stick isn't going to pay for itself


----------



## aeventyr60

smackdaddy said:


> THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how the young punks roll.
> 
> Awesome.
> 
> I see DrakeP is also on Patreon.


The original young punk and the maybe the first go pro:


----------



## smackdaddy

aeventyr60 said:


> The original young punk and the maybe the first go pro:


Absofreakinlutely. The Young Punks have been leading the way for a very long time.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another bunch that are doing it up.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Absofreakinlutely. The Young Punks have been leading the way for a very long time.


I suppose for want of a GoPro, a guy like John Guzzwell might have made more of a peep than the proverbial tree falling in a forest...

)










Latitude 38 - Salute to John Guzzwell

Still, I think the lovely Nike has them all beat... After all, she hasn't even really gone anywhere, yet...

)


----------



## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> Still, I think the lovely Nike has them all beat... After all, she hasn't even really gone anywhere, yet...
> 
> )


I suspect she lost her sponsor.


----------



## chall03

JonEisberg said:


> Still, I think the lovely Nike has them all beat... After all, she hasn't even really gone anywhere, yet...
> 
> )


I think your right. Returning to the mantra of this thread one thing young punks can remind us of is the _why_ of cruising.

Nike captures this beautifully, it isn't about how many nautical miles she has rattled off, or having the perfect boat it is the realisation of the old saying that it is the _journey_ that is important.

Yesterday while going through some stuff I read something I wrote in my diary when I was 21 about wanting to sail the world. My naivety at the time amused me, but the optimism and enthusiasm in what I had written also took me back.

While I am glad I am a better sailor at 35 than I was at 21, I do want some of that optimism and some of that desire to just dive in head first again.


----------



## aeventyr60

A little bit of voyaging can certainly bring back that optimism. Voyaging may also prevent the onset of the bitter old dude syndrome as well. Seems to me that voyaging restores the enthusiasm of youth too. Go ahead, dive right in. Feet first may be a bit safer. Maybe even a giant stride entry.


----------



## JonEisberg

chall03 said:


> Yesterday while going through some stuff I read something I wrote in my diary when I was 21 about wanting to sail the world. My naivety at the time amused me, but the optimism and enthusiasm in what I had written also took me back.
> 
> While I am glad I am a better sailor at 35 than I was at 21, I do want some of that optimism and some of that desire to just dive in head first again.


Trust me, when you get to be my age, you'll look back at some of the stuff you wrote when you were 35, and....

)

BTW, congrats on the New Arrival, what a wonderful Christmas present... What a lucky boy, born into a family of sailors...


----------



## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> I suspect she lost her sponsor.


Nah, she'll be back...

Hell, I would have taken a break from all that crap long before she did...

)


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> I think your right. Returning to the mantra of this thread one thing young punks can remind us of is the _why_ of cruising.
> 
> Nike captures this beautifully, it isn't about how many nautical miles she has rattled off, or having the perfect boat it is the realisation of the old saying that it is the _journey_ that is important.
> 
> Yesterday while going through some stuff I read something I wrote in my diary when I was 21 about wanting to sail the world. My naivety at the time amused me, but the optimism and enthusiasm in what I had written also took me back.
> 
> While I am glad I am a better sailor at 35 than I was at 21, I do want some of that optimism and some of that desire to just dive in head first again.


Bingo.


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> I suppose for want of a GoPro, a guy like John Guzzwell might have made more of a peep than the proverbial tree falling in a forest...
> 
> )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latitude 38 - Salute to John Guzzwell
> 
> Still, I think the lovely Nike has them all beat... After all, she hasn't even really gone anywhere, yet...
> 
> )


I didn't know Andy Griffith was a sailor.

BTW - Was that a blue water boat?


----------



## casey1999

smackdaddy said:


> I didn't know Andy Griffith was a sailor.
> 
> BTW - Was that a blue water boat?


Interesting another thread talks of the boat- you can even get a free copy:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...2993-would-anyone-like-free-wooden-sloop.html

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/cit...ka/1045098739?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


----------



## smackdaddy

casey1999 said:


> Interesting another thread talks of the boat- you can even get a free copy:
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...2993-would-anyone-like-free-wooden-sloop.html
> 
> 21' Hand Built copy of Famous "TREKKA" | sailboats | City of Halifax | Kijiji


Aaakkk. Looks like at this point it would make a great coffee table - or storage shed.

At "Free" - it's still too expensive though.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> I didn't know Andy Griffith was a sailor.
> 
> BTW - Was that a blue water boat?


I'd say she probably qualifies, 'technically'... 

Excellent design pedigree from J. Laurent Giles... Superb construction by Guzzwell himself... She possesses many of the design _characteristics_ which determine the suitability for offshore sailing, and the fact that she successfully rode out a cyclone off the E coast of Australia seems further proof of that...

However, if you're asking if I would care to take her offshore myself, well... that's an entirely different question...


----------



## chall03

JonEisberg said:


> ....
> 
> )
> 
> BTW, congrats on the New Arrival, what a wonderful Christmas present... What a lucky boy, born into a family of sailors...


Thanks Jon.

A month old tomorrow. His first sail will be on Sunday.


----------



## chall03

JonEisberg said:


> I'd say she probably qualifies, 'technically'...
> 
> Excellent design pedigree from J. Laurent Giles... Superb construction by Guzzwell himself... She possesses many of the design _characteristics_ which determine the suitability for offshore sailing, and the fact that she successfully rode out a cyclone off the E coast of Australia seems further proof of that...
> 
> However, if you're asking if I would care to take her offshore myself, well... that's an entirely different question...


Where do you install the genset and water maker?


----------



## JonEisberg

chall03 said:


> Thanks Jon.
> 
> A month old tomorrow. His first sail will be on Sunday.


Well, you know what they say...

_"Pics, or it didn't happen..."_

)


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - I went ahead and bought a Go-Pro-style action camera:










It's this thing

Amazon.com : EKOO® E3 SJ4000 WIFI Wireless Waterproof HD 1080P Sports Action Video Camera with Mini LCD : Camera & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@61E-nYhjiSL

and it was $99.

It has builti-in WiFi so can be remotely controlled via an iPhone/iPad - and can also use those devices as a remote monitor. It also has a built-in LCD screen. So, it's pretty close in comparison to the new GoPro Hero 4...but at 1/3 the price. PLUS - you get TONS of accessories with this camera that would cost quite a bit more if you were buying them separately for the GPH4.










Now, in researching it, the picture quality _is_ a bit inferior to the GoPro's. But for what we're doing, I certainly didn't think it was inferior enough to justify the additional expense for the GPH4.






So, we'll start making some vids with this thing and see how it works out. Obviously, the next must-have is a drone. Oh yeah!!!!


----------



## SailRedemption

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I went ahead and bought a Go-Pro-style action camera:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's this thing
> 
> Amazon.com : EKOO® E3 SJ4000 WIFI Wireless Waterproof HD 1080P Sports Action Video Camera with Mini LCD : Camera & [email]Photo
> 
> and it was $99.
> 
> It has builti-in WiFi so can be remotely controlled via an iPhone/iPad - and can also use those devices as a remote monitor. It also has a built-in LCD screen. So, it's pretty close in comparison to the new GoPro Hero 4...but at 1/3 the price. PLUS - you get TONS of accessories with this camera that would cost quite a bit more if you were buying them separately for the GPH4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, in researching it, the picture quality _is_ a bit inferior to the GoPro's. But for what we're doing, I certainly didn't think it was inferior enough to justify the additional expense for the GPH4.
> 
> So, we'll start making some vids with this thing and see how it works out. Obviously, the next must-have is a drone. Oh yeah!!!!
> 
> Now, as I was researc


Oh nice! Put up a photos and videos when you get a chance.. Even just test videos of you being aimless haha

- Ronnie...on the geaux


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude - I'm always aimless!


----------



## Minnewaska

I have the goPro, but I really have little desire to film myself. Further, I have much better things to do with my time than spend the reported hours to edit it all into something barely tolerable to watch.


----------



## mbianka

Smack Daddy. On a recent cruise in the Spanish Virgins I entered the water with the housing for my Swan Freestyle video camera (1/2 price of the GoPro) partly opened. I was hoping to get it repaired. But, with the price of the Ekoo it might make more sense to buy it instead. Thanks for mentioning it. Now if I could only find a buyer for my Sony VX1000 DV Camera. Only paid something like $3,400 for it back in 1996.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> I have the goPro, but I really have little desire to film myself. Further, I have much better things to do with my time than spend the reported hours to edit it all into something barely tolerable to watch.


Then I'd say you need to become less boring, my friend! I find myself fascinating. Heh-heh.


----------



## smackdaddy

mbianka said:


> Smack Daddy. On a recent cruise in the Spanish Virgins I entered the water with the housing for my Swan Freestyle video camera (1/2 price of the GoPro) partly opened. I was hoping to get it repaired. But, with the price of the Ekoo it might make more sense to buy it instead. Thanks for mentioning it. Now if I could only find a buyer for my Sony VX1000 DV Camera. Only paid something like $3,400 for it back in 1996.


Doesn't Moore's Law suck sometimes?


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Then I'd say you need to become less boring, my friend! I find myself fascinating. Heh-heh.


Oh no! Once Smack gets started.... this will be the inevitable result. 









MedSailor


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Doesn't Moore's Law suck sometimes?


YES..... and no. 










MedSailor


----------



## casey1999

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I went ahead and bought a Go-Pro-style action camera:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's this thing
> 
> Amazon.com : EKOO® E3 SJ4000 WIFI Wireless Waterproof HD 1080P Sports Action Video Camera with Mini LCD : Camera & Photo
> 
> and it was $99.
> It has builti-in WiFi so can be remotely controlled via an iPhone/iPad - and can also use those devices as a remote monitor. It also has a built-in LCD screen. So, it's pretty close in comparison to the new GoPro Hero 4...but at 1/3 the price. PLUS - you get TONS of accessories with this camera that would cost quite a bit more if you were buying them separately for the GPH4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, in researching it, the picture quality _is_ a bit inferior to the GoPro's. But for what we're doing, I certainly didn't think it was inferior enough to justify the additional expense for the GPH4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, we'll start making some vids with this thing and see how it works out. Obviously, the next must-have is a drone. Oh yeah!!!!


Are not folks getting fed up with all the gro pro, selfies everybody's a hero bs? I read where a private jet crash last year in co was due to pilot playing with a freakin go pro taking selfies. Too many people into themselves just filling up data center storage memory


----------



## smackdaddy

casey1999 said:


> Are not folks getting fed up with all the gro pro, selfies everybody's a hero bs? I read where a private jet crash last year in co was due to pilot playing with a freakin go pro taking selfies. Too many people into themselves just filling up data center storage memory


If you're fed up, don't watch the movies. Simple really.

Oh - and your post just took up 320 bytes in the "data center storage memory". Text-based selfie?


----------



## ianjoub

Go pro selfies!


----------



## JonEisberg

ianjoub said:


> Go pro selfies!


If I'm gonna watch something on YouTube for 5 minutes, I prefer those where something actually _HAPPENS_... ;-)

Not sure you have to be a skier to appreciate this one...


----------



## casey1999

smackdaddy said:


> If you're fed up, don't watch the movies. Simple really.
> 
> Oh - and your post just took up 320 bytes in the "data center storage memory". Text-based selfie?


I do not watch the selfies. Just don't like driving around the island with all the tourist hanging their gopros out the window on a selfie stick tacking pictures of themselves driving and making themselves a hero in their own minds, and nearly running into me head on as they fix their hair.
Example:





or pick up at Min 3:43:





As far as data center storage, I own stock in a data storage company, so make money of all the heroes out there. So vid on boys and girls...


----------



## Texas_Cruising

I have literally read this whole Thread. First of all I am 56 and actually new to sailing. Long story as to why it took so long to purchase my first boat, let's just say Uncle Sam took up most of my life. Anyhow when my wife and I have gone out sailing I mounted the Go Pro to the rails just starboard as to record the entire boat. After a day of sailing I watched the video that was recorded. Surprisingly I found several mistakes that we had made and some things we could have done more efficient especially in our Tacks. So for us we never leave the marina without the Go Pro turned on and actually have a backup just in case. So when all is said and done the new technology can help in other ways that just trying to impress everyone with you day of sailing..


----------



## Capt Len

Jeeez, I wandered under sail for 2 and a half years and didn't use up a roll of 26 snaps in a mini browny .Never in the world of adventure has there been such an epic ,unrecorded walkabout lost to history. Heroic boastful selfies must be the way to go today as they seem to have value and meaning .Too late for this luddite with old values.


----------



## casey1999

Texas_Cruising said:


> I have literally read this whole Thread. First of all I am 56 and actually new to sailing. Long story as to why it took so long to purchase my first boat, let's just say Uncle Sam took up most of my life. Anyhow when my wife and I have gone out sailing I mounted the Go Pro to the rails just starboard as to record the entire boat. After a day of sailing I watched the video that was recorded. Surprisingly I found several mistakes that we had made and some things we could have done more efficient especially in our Tacks. So for us we never leave the marina without the Go Pro turned on and actually have a backup just in case. So when all is said and done the new technology can help in other ways that just trying to impress everyone with you day of sailing..


Ok me and the wife took your advice. We strapped a go-pro to the headboard just before we hit the sack. In the morning we reviewed the footage. And, yea, surprisingly I found several mistakes that we had made and some things we could have done more efficiently. And now we are heros and will never go to bed, or fool around without the Go-Pro catching all the actions, but most importantly- the mistakes. I plan to purchase a back-up cam just in case the first want falls off the headboard. You are right, this technology can help mankind in many ways. Wonder how we managed to survive for the last million years without Go-Pros?


----------



## Classic30

casey1999 said:


> Ok me and the wife took your advice. We strapped a go-pro to the headboard just before we hit the sack. In the morning we reviewed the footage. And, yea, surprisingly I found several mistakes that we had made and some things we could have done more efficiently. And now we are heros and will never go to bed, or fool around without the Go-Pro catching all the actions, but most importantly- the mistakes. I plan to purchase a back-up cam just in case the first want falls off the headboard. You are right, this technology can help mankind in many ways.  Wonder how we managed to survive for the last million years without Go-Pros?


I, for one, REALLY hope you're not serious..


----------



## rbyham

I am in the group that has found the gopro disappoitning. After all the hype maybe my expectations had just become unrealistic. From sound to proprietary connector to lack of streamed view to my phone, all I find to be happy with is that the footage looks good enough. Check out a few frames taken from underwater footage. Anyone think I need a new prop?


----------



## Minnesail

Ah, the GoPro.

I was recently at an indoor waterpark in the Wisconsin Dells. One day in the wave pool I saw not one but TWO guys wearing GoPros on their heads. 

Um, dudes. Anything that happens in a wave pool is not considered *extreme* enough to warrant capturing with a head-mounted GoPro. Also you look like total tools.


----------



## casey1999

Classic30 said:


> I, for one, REALLY hope you're not serious..


Totally serious. Last I checked the vid had gone viral on utube...


----------



## casey1999

The thing I don't get about all this gopro, utube, film your life thing is that do you really need all that documentation of yourself and what your did? Even the so called famous and VIPs in this world are not all that important, let alone us common folks. From my childhood my parents probably have about 20 pics of my sisters and me- most are black and white. But that is all I need. A few pics of my sisters and me. I don't really need hours of high def vid to remember the good times we had.


----------



## Minnewaska

Just used a go pro for the first time on sailing vacation. Took a bunch of random 5sec to 60sec vids. 

Had no idea what I was doing really. When home, I strung them all together into one big video, using Windows Movie Maker. I'm sure there are better tools, but that's what was on my PC already. Took about 20 minutes of playing around to figure it out. I selected a format, then trimmed out a bunch, added a music track and imported a bunch of scrolling pictures to fill the time at the end of the song. For a rank amateur, I thought it came out pretty good. Total time invested, including learning what I was doing, was about 2 hours. 

The neat part is that our entire trip is documented in about a 5 min video that everyone has liked to watch. Scrolling all the pics off your phone for 30 mins is horrible to do to family and friends. 

I'm converted.


----------



## SloopJonB

It was bad enough back in the day when people brought out their home movies at family gatherings - now they're going on the freakin' web for the whole world to be excruciatingly bored by?

People, get over yourselves - your lives are not that interesting.

Well, maybe that camera on the headboard of the bed.......


----------



## casey1999

Maybe there is hope:

Selfie stick bans go into effect at French, UK attractions - WRBL

Selfie stick bans go into effect at French, UK attractions
By GREG KELLER
Associated Press 
PARIS (AP) - "Selfie sticks" have now been banned at a French palace and a British museum, joining a growing list of global tourist attractions to take such measures.

The devices are used to improve snapshots, but critics say they are obnoxious and potentially dangerous. Officials at Palace of Versailles outside Paris, and Britain's National Gallery in London, announced the bans Wednesday, saying they need to protect artworks and other visitors.

Other places that have put limits on the selfie-stick craze:

___

FRANCE

Unlike Versailles, the Louvre and Centre Georges Pompidou art museums have not banned selfie sticks - yet. The Pompidou - the contemporary art museum whose exterior of colorful tubes and scaffolding looks like a building turned inside out - is studying what, if anything, needs to be done about the phenomenon, Le Monde reported.

Musee d'Orsay, which houses an Impressionist art collection, bans not just selfie sticks, but any photography whatsoever.

___

ITALY

Rome's Colosseum banned selfie sticks last month as a security measure, both for the objects on exhibit inside and for the 16,000 daily visitors to the 2,000-year-old monument.

"The twirling around of hundreds of sticks can become unwittingly dangerous," Colosseum spokesman Christiano Brughitta said.

Two American tourists were arrested last week after carving their names into the Colosseum's wall - and then taking a photo with a selfie stick.

___

UNITED STATES

The Smithsonian museums in Washington banned selfie sticks last week. Cameras and pictures are still allowed, but selfie sticks, tripods and monopods are not. Smithsonian officials say this is a preventative measure to protect visitors and museum objects.

Other U.S. museums that ban selfie sticks include the Art Institute of Chicago, the Detroit Institute of Arts, and New York's Museum of Modern Art and the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

___

AUSTRIA

Vienna's Albertina, one of the city's top art museums, prohibits selfie sticks. Museum spokeswoman Sarah Wulbrandt says visitors must check-in the sticks before entering.

___

BRITAIN

Besides the National Gallery, some English soccer teams have banned the selfie stick from their stadiums.

The National Portrait Gallery, adjacent to the National Gallery, says the sticks are allowed, but "anything that may prove disruptive is reviewed on an ongoing basis." The British Museum is "currently reviewing" its selfie-stick policy.

Some art-lovers praised the idea of a ban.

"If you go into an exhibition, surely the purpose is to see what is on show and not to take umpteen photographs of yourself?" said Bill Doig, a retired doctor visiting the National Portrait Gallery.

___

BRAZIL

Soccer stadiums in the South American country have also banned selfie sticks because of their potential use as weapons in fights between rival fans, police say. Selfie sticks were also banned from Brazil's recent Carnival parades in Rio de Janeiro.


----------



## TakeFive

Nobody makes you watch.


----------



## Capt Len

Slight drift,... Is selfie obssesion boring or just lame.?


----------



## casey1999

TakeFive said:


> Nobody makes you watch.


Thank God...


----------



## casey1999

Capt Len said:


> Slight drift,... Is selfie obssesion boring or just lame.?


All of the above. Met a Fenchman who said "why take a picture of my self, I know what I look like.


----------



## TakeFive

casey1999 said:


> Thank God...


I just don't see any harm in these videos, especially sailing videos. You take a vacation, you take some videos so you can relive the experience, you edit it down and post it on the web so others can see it also. Some of the videos get a lot of hits because there are lots of people who are curious what it's like to be on a sailboat. Arguably, there are lots more people curious about sailing than there are people who have actually sailed. So it's a pretty good topic to share publicly.

I can't tell you how many times we've re-watched the video from our BVI charter. It never fails to put us in a relaxed state. I rarely share anything on YouTube, preferring to limit sharing to friends on Facebook. But our sailing videos, most of which are pretty mundane and un-exotic locations on the Delaware River, get dozens of likes and favorable comments. Apparently our friends enjoy them. And who wouldn't? Many people think sailing is cool, even if they would panic as soon as a boat actually started to heel.

So I think it's fine for people to post. If they get no hits, they'll get the message and stop doing it. But nobody makes you watch.


----------



## casey1999

TakeFive said:


> I just don't see any harm in these videos, especially sailing videos. You take a vacation, you take some videos so you can relive the experience, you edit it down and post it on the web so others can see it also. Some of the videos get a lot of hits because there are lots of people who are curious what it's like to be on a sailboat. Arguably, there are lots more people curious about sailing than there are people who have actually sailed. So it's a pretty good topic to share publicly.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times we've re-watched the video from our BVI charter. It never fails to put us in a relaxed state. I rarely share anything on YouTube, preferring to limit sharing to friends on Facebook. But our sailing videos, most of which are pretty mundane and un-exotic locations on the Delaware River, get dozens of likes and favorable comments. Apparently our friends enjoy them. And who wouldn't? Many people think sailing is cool, even if they would panic as soon as a boat actually started to heel.
> 
> So I think it's fine for people to post. If they get no hits, they'll get the message and stop doing it. But nobody makes you watch.


A lot of these videos are kind of like Holiday news letters (luckily it seems these news letters have dropped out of favor in the last few years). The holiday news letter is usually filled with how great their job is, how well there kids are doing in college, or how great all there kids or grand kids are, how great the new house is. Nothing is said about the job lay offs or the kid on drugs, or the kid that failed a grade.

But yea, we are not forced to watch youtube, and me, I've stopped.


----------



## TakeFive

casey1999 said:


> A lot of these videos are kind of like Holiday news letters (luckily it seems these news letters have dropped out of favor in the last few years)....


I guess I won't add you to my Christmas list for the holiday newsletters that I've been sending for the last 30 years. :laugher

The couple times I tried to discontinue the letter, I got notes back from people asking, "Where's your letter???"


----------



## SloopJonB

Yours must have been exceptional - don't take that response as the norm. In most cases the response to its absence would have been a heartfelt "Thank God!"


----------



## SailRedemption

rbyham said:


> I am in the group that has found the gopro disappoitning. After all the hype maybe my expectations had just become unrealistic. From sound to proprietary connector to lack of streamed view to my phone, all I find to be happy with is that the footage looks good enough. Check out a few frames taken from underwater footage. Anyone think I need a new prop?


What proprietary connector? It's a micro USB.

And they do stream video to your phone, keep up with the times old man! 

The shots look like your in some heavy slime/algae water! So green! Haha

- Ronnie...on the geaux


----------



## SailRedemption

TakeFive said:


> I just don't see any harm in these videos, especially sailing videos. You take a vacation, you take some videos so you can relive the experience, you edit it down and post it on the web so others can see it also. Some of the videos get a lot of hits because there are lots of people who are curious what it's like to be on a sailboat. Arguably, there are lots more people curious about sailing than there are people who have actually sailed. So it's a pretty good topic to share publicly.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times we've re-watched the video from our BVI charter. It never fails to put us in a relaxed state. I rarely share anything on YouTube, preferring to limit sharing to friends on Facebook. But our sailing videos, most of which are pretty mundane and un-exotic locations on the Delaware River, get dozens of likes and favorable comments. Apparently our friends enjoy them. And who wouldn't? Many people think sailing is cool, even if they would panic as soon as a boat actually started to heel.
> 
> So I think it's fine for people to post. If they get no hits, they'll get the message and stop doing it. But nobody makes you watch.


I'm agree. Some people who have a computer but either don't have the money or access to sailing, those who can't afford to go to exotic places for vacation due to a number of reasons, or people who are related to or are close friends with the people making the videos may really enjoy the videos. Especially if they are well done! Family and friends may like to keep up with these people and if pictures tell a thousand words then a video tells more! Who are you to say they are dumb for doing it, it sounds a bit childish to put someone down for making videos of their experiences.

I for one make videos of races and experiences of sailing and traveling and my family and friends enjoy watching them. Most of the time people try to share experiences by showing pictures on their phones or tablets,and that to me isn't enjoyable but if it's all they have I'm still glad and happy for them and their experiences.

Clearly you guys aren't "Learning from young punks" and are still ornery, grumpy old farts.



- Ronnie...on the geaux


----------



## Minnewaska

There are a few selfie-style youtube channels that I keep up with. DrakeParagon and WickedSalty as examples. Drake is just about to document getting to Newport, but it doesn't seem he's staying long. WickedSalty just reminds me of being their age. Not that they are all that hard core, nor did I venture that far, when I was their age. But it would have been the adventure of a lifetime to have taken their trip at their age. I think its fun to watch.

Ironically, I don't think I really care if the production quality is all that good. Some are getting very professional. Of course, they can be so bad, they are hard to watch, with fast panning or very choppy, poor transitions. But, I'm not sure the extreme production effort pays off, if they're not going out for public sale. There is just a minimum bar to get over.

Paragon's videos are almost two years delayed in production, if I'm not mistaken. Salty's are about 2 months. I think I prefer the latter, as much as I like them both.

For most of these cruising selfie producers, I bet they are really a way to stay connected with friends and family, while you are away for an extended period. You can show them all that you're well and it gives an opportunity to stay connected with comments, etc. That's a pretty good development in cruising, when it wasn't that long ago that you left and weren't heard from again for a couple of years.


----------



## casey1999

TakeFive said:


> I guess I won't add you to my Christmas list for the holiday newsletters that I've been sending for the last 30 years. :laugher
> 
> The couple times I tried to discontinue the letter, I got notes back from people asking, "Where's your letter???"


Yes, in a way I do miss the holiday news letters I used to get. It was nice to hear about all the happy, smiley folks out there. It was nice to know others lived a much better life than I did. I am just hoping they told the entire story, because sometimes, a few months after the news letter, I would hear about the bitter devorces and child custody battles their children faced. If people are going to write a news letter, or post a utube, at least tell the whole story.


----------



## casey1999

Minnewaska said:


> That's a pretty good development in cruising, when it wasn't that long ago that you left and weren't heard from again for a couple of years.


I thought that was the reason to cast off the lines and go cruising?


----------



## Minnewaska

casey1999 said:


> I thought that was the reason to cast off the lines and go cruising?


No way, not for me.

Just last week, when aboard our bareboat off St John, we had this conversation. When we get there on a more permanent basis, albeit seasonal, we would spend 30 mins each morning sending out "when are you coming" notes. 

We share our cruising life with many people already. There is almost never a weekend all season in New England that we don't have family or friends aboard. Most really pressure us to find time for them again. We would love for them to join us around the planet, as good fortune will hopefully allow one day. No reason to disconnect, we would rather taunt them to come and showing video of how nice it is, just may help.


----------



## casey1999

How times have changed:
Around Alone | Lapham?s Quarterly

On February 6, Bernard Moitessier sailed past the Horn, but unlike Knox-Johnston, he could not find an end to his journey. Somewhere beyond the Falkland Islands, Moitessier made a decision. "Leaving from Plymouth and returning to Plymouth now seems like leaving from nowhere to go nowhere," he wrote. Although he was still trailing Knox-Johnston, he would almost certainly post the faster time, thereby earning the cash prize, and had a good chance of passing Suhaili on the homestretch to take the Golden Globe trophy as well. But he would not sail back to Britain, reunite with his wife and stepchildren, accept his prize and celebrity-he would keep going. Aboard his "little red and white planet made of space, pure air, stars, clouds and freedom," he found peace, and peace was the one thing Moitessier would not sacrifice. In Cape Town, on March 18, he used a slingshot to deliver a canister to a passing tanker. It contained a message for the Sunday Times:

My intention is to continue the voyage, still nonstop, toward the Pacific Islands, where there is plenty of sun and more peace than in Europe. Please do not think I am trying to break a record. Record is a very stupid word at sea. I am continuing nonstop because I am happy at sea, and perhaps because I want to save my soul.


----------



## Whitebread117

I for one would (and do) choose to watch those "look at me with my gopro" videos over anything on television every time, no question. Far more honest and real than the fake drama "reality" or canned sitcom formula junk that passes for modern tv programming.

Production quality doesn't have to be awesome as long as long as content is engaging- something that TV and movie studios have forgotten and at least some of the "young punks" understand.

You may view it as annoying narcicism from the "look at me" generation, but some of us view it as more entertaining than anything the professionals are putting out.


----------



## mbianka

casey1999 said:


> Yes, in a way I do miss the holiday news letters I used to get. It was nice to hear about all the happy, smiley folks out there. It was nice to know others lived a much better life than I did. I am just hoping they told the entire story, because sometimes, a few months after the news letter, I would hear about the bitter devorces and child custody battles their children faced. If people are going to write a news letter, or post a utube, at least tell the whole story.


Social Media like Facebook has kind of taken over the holiday newsletters for many. Certainly the younger crowd has embraced it. Though even many of my high school classmates I graduated with forty years ago also post on it these days. Though I can do without all the pictures of grandchildren that many post. Likewise cat and dog videos are also skipped over by me. In terms of a life it's a little more current than the end of year letters. I even had an acquaintance announce that his wife had left him on Facebook. On the positive side it saves paper and the cost of stamps for those who send out those end of year letters.


----------



## casey1999

mbianka said:


> Social Media like Facebook has kind of taken over the holiday newsletters for many. Certainly the younger crowd has embraced it. Though even many of my high school classmates I graduated with forty years ago also post on it these days. Though I can do without all the pictures of grandchildren that many post. Likewise cat and dog videos are also skipped over by me. In terms of a life it's a little more current than the end of year letters. I even had an acquaintance announce that his wife had left him on Facebook. On the positive side it saves paper and the cost of stamps for those who send out those end of year letters.


Agree. I never got into the face book thing. In fact I am trying to get out of this entire social media thing- maybe I should just ditch sn...


----------



## TakeFive

Minnewaska said:


> There are a few selfie-style youtube channels that I keep up with. DrakeParagon and WickedSalty as examples. Drake is just about to document getting to Newport, but it doesn't seem he's staying long. WickedSalty just reminds me of being their age. Not that they are all that hard core, nor did I venture that far, when I was their age. But it would have been the adventure of a lifetime to have taken their trip at their age. I think its fun to watch...


I agree completely. Drake comes across as such a genuine guy who loves his boat, is fascinated with all the little things he sees on his boat and elsewhere, has an ordinary girlfriend who puts him in his place when he deserves it, etc. Just the kind of couple that you'd like to pal around with on their boat - which is sort of what you're doing, just virtually.

WickedSalty is doing all the stuff I wish I had done at that age. I was in too much of a hurry to go to grad school and join the rat race. I could have done so much back in the early '80s, since I owned a business that was very profitable with minimal effort. I should have bought a boat and headed out, but I went straight to grad school instead. No regrets, as long as I pull the trigger on retirement before I'm too old to have fun. One more kid to get through college first.

I watched all of Nike's WhiteSpot videos as they came out last year, and they were enjoyable. But I am starting to feel like I'm being "played," with her increasing pleads for money. She bills herself as a making a "solo sailing documentary," but it sure seems like she picked up a steady boyfriend at some point last year. Nothing wrong with that, except she seems to do her best to hide him off-camera, lest she lose the voyeur crowd. It's not as genuine as I thought it was. She should come clean and bill her videos as "exploits of a cruising couple."

I've watched a few of the Delos videos, but they're a little too hot and slick for my tastes. It seems less about sailing and more about getting the girls drunk enough to strip off their bikinis. Not surprisingly, those videos have close to half a million hits. If that's what they want to do, maybe they should go all the way like these guys:


----------



## SloopJonB

casey1999 said:


> he would not sail back to Britain, reunite with his wife and stepchildren,


And there we have the essential problem with admiring a man like Moitessier.

Much easier to abandon his family and responsibilities and sail off to the South Seas.


----------



## Capt Len

Then there are selfies like the films by Irving Jonhson of his adventures around the Horn back in the day. Proven by the test of time and criteec. It's possible that some value may be found in the virtual mountain of today's crap but I bet the real interest is similar to a scatologist and his favourite personal offering. Not to defend Bernard but when I hung with him in Papeete ,my thought was you do what you got to do .His opinions ,I think, had changed over the years ,but the world is made of your decisions and maybe selfies will prove to be a way to keep score of the past.


----------



## casey1999

SloopJonB said:


> And there we have the essential problem with admiring a man like Moitessier.
> 
> Much easier to abandon his family and responsibilities and sail off to the South Seas.


I would not say anything is easy. Sometimes people do things to keep their sanity.


----------



## smackdaddy

This is turning into a great thread.

Moitessier was at once admirable and pathetic. I guess we all are to some degree, eh?


----------



## SloopJonB

Probably, but to me deserting your family is inexcusable - on par with Schettino falling into the lifeboat.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> .....Moitessier was at once admirable and pathetic.....


I'm laughing at myself for even suggesting this. My wife diagnoses about every other person that behaves abnormally, with clinical depression. I roll my eyes, saying some people are just jerks.

However, in Moitessier's case, it would stand to reason there was some psychopathology involved.

I will acknowledge this, to my wife's credit. I've known many people, who have done some extraordinary stunts or acts, who truly lacked some mental stability. The success of their stunt or act has overshadowed that abnormality. If they had failed, history would have recorded them in the same unstable group that said "hold my beer and watch this......"


----------



## sailvayu

Ahhh I thought anyone who owned or messed around in boats "truly lacked some mental stability."


----------



## casey1999

SloopJonB said:


> Probably, but to me deserting your family is inexcusable - on par with Schettino falling into the lifeboat.


Not only did Moitessier desert his wife, but apparently Moitessier and his wife had earlier deserted their children- so I guess it was a family thing...

From:





"With the money from his book, he commissioned a 39' steel ketch which he named Joshua, in honour of Joshua Slocum, the first person to sail around the world solo. Finally he and Françoise left Marseille in October 1963, leaving her three children in boarding schools. After wintering in Casablanca they sailed first to the Canaries, then to Trinidad, and through the Panama Canal to the Galapagos Islands. After two years of spending time in each of these places they arrived at Tahiti, but realised that they were running out of time and that there was just eight months left to return to their children. So Moitessier proposed sailing Joshua home not via the Indian Ocean and Suez Canal, as originally planned, but eastwise, via the quickest route, including a passage about the much feared Cape Horn. Upon their arrival in France, at Easter, 1966, they had, without intending it, completed the longest nonstop passage by a yacht in history-14216 nautical miles, over 126 days, a world record which brought him immediate recognition throughout the world yachting community.[2]"


----------



## sailvayu

I guess it has to be considered the time and culture. I do not think it was uncommon for parents to send their children off to boarding schools for years at a time back then in Europe. I am not saying it was right just more excepted. 
Of course one could look at the other end of the spectrum with Eric and Charlotte taking their young children to sea with them. 
But that is a hornets nest I will just lightly poke and run like hell from lol.


----------



## SloopJonB

sailvayu said:


> Ahhh I thought anyone who owned or messed around in boats "truly lacked some mental stability."


You were right.


----------



## casey1999

sailvayu said:


> I guess it has to be considered the time and culture. I do not think it was uncommon for parents to send their children off to boarding schools for years at a time back then in Europe. I am not saying it was right just more excepted.
> Of course one could look at the other end of the spectrum with Eric and Charlotte taking their young children to sea with them.
> But that is a hornets nest I will just lightly poke and run like hell from lol.


Agree. This whole thing about how to raise kids or relationships with spouse or partners is complex. Most of us try to do our best, but in the eyes of others, we fail. But did we really fail? Probably not- it just is what is. I try to raise my own kids in the best environment I can provide, but sometimes I think they might do better to go live with a family in a third world country to see how most kids are raised- then they might really learn something that will help them succeed in life. Whatever succeed means...


----------



## SloopJonB

To know if you brung yer kids up proper, you have to look at them as adults.

Are they literate, are they happy and do they live up to their responsibilities? If yes to all then you did it right.

Moitessier's parent only got 67% (assuming he was happy).


----------



## casey1999

SloopJonB said:


> To know if you brung yer kids up proper, you have to look at them as adults.
> 
> Are they literate, are they happy and do they live up to their responsibilities? If yes to all then you did it right.
> 
> Moitessier's parent only got 67% (assuming he was happy).


Remember, it takes a village to raise a child...


----------



## SloopJonB

casey1999 said:


> Remember, it takes a village to raise a child...


uke


----------



## norsearayder

Bernard M is my hero,as for wives and children if you don't take them with you ,then they r left behind,duh as for continuing to Tahiti rather than going back to EU to claim his prizes, if you don't understand this act then read it again ! I do not look to Bernard M for spousal advice but rather the pure essence of loog distance cruising...norsearayder


----------



## bblument

casey1999 said:


> Remember, it takes a village to raise a child...


Only if the child doesn't have good parents. Good parents are FAR more preferable.

Just my opinion. Of course, my opinion is based on working with thousands of children from all walks of life over 32 years. I wish "the village" had kept their "hands" off my own children.

Barry


----------



## SloopJonB

norsearayder said:


> Bernard M is my hero,as for wives and children if you don't take them with you ,then they r left behind,duh as for continuing to Tahiti rather than going back to EU to claim his prizes, if you don't understand this act then read it again ! I do not look to Bernard M for spousal advice but rather the pure essence of loog distance cruising...norsearayder


No one was talking about the prizes, they were talking about his wife & children.

Skipping the prizes - fine, people do that for many reasons. Skipping out on his family for his own selfish reasons? Unacceptable and contemptible.

Just because he was an accomplished sailor doesn't make him admirable.


----------



## norsearayder

I don't think they were his biological children,and the wife was just one of a long line of women attracted to this man! Ya can't live with them all at the same time!he took his current wife you speak of with him for THE LONG WAY and left the children to boarding school and sister of wife,hardly irresponsible... His sailing g set the tone for a generation, I think many people use their children,all the way to graduate school,as an excuse not to venture more than 10 miles offshore


----------



## SloopJonB

norsearayder said:


> left the children to boarding school and sister of wife,hardly irresponsible...


So as long as you don't just leave then to their own devices you are a responsible parent?

Sure hope you don't have any kids.


----------



## TakeFive

norsearayder said:


> I think many people use their children,all the way to graduate school,as an excuse not to venture more than 10 miles offshore


Wow. Just wow. I'm speechless.


----------



## Classic30

TakeFive said:


> norsearayder said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think many people use their children,all the way to graduate school,as an excuse not to venture more than 10 miles offshore
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just wow. I'm speechless.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'd take that further and say many people I know use their children as an excuse, as stupid as it is, to never get into sailing at all.


----------



## Minnewaska

I got my kids into sailing. They are all jonesing to know the boat is back in the water.


----------



## Mort_Todtman

I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I thing we're being had. There's something too perfect about Riley and Elayna. I'm waitig for the big reveal.


----------



## smackdaddy

Mort_Todtman said:


> I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I thing we're being had. There's something too perfect about Riley and Elayna. I'm waitig for the big reveal.


Heh-heh. You mean a Charlie Sheen undoing in the works?


----------



## smackdaddy

Here is a great video from Brian on S/V Delos explaining how they got into it...


----------



## smackdaddy

More Young Punks out there givin' it a rippa!


----------



## UPHILL

Alaskagraphy (https://alaskagraphy.wordpress.com/) seems to be missing and or deleted.

Bummer I liked there stuff a bunch. Anyone know where they went?


----------



## dilligaf0220

UPHILL said:


> Alaskagraphy seems to be missing and or deleted.
> 
> Bummer I liked there stuff a bunch. Anyone know where they went?


The haters won.
Too bad they had to delete everything though, their vids were great but their blog had a bunch of stuff that didn't make Youtube.

Too bad, they were getting pretty good and their trips were epic.


----------



## smackdaddy

What what the hating all about? And why did they give a damn?


----------



## dilligaf0220

smackdaddy said:


> What what the hating all about? And why did they give a damn?


They shot a black bear. In Alaska. And turned it into hamburger. Several actually over the three seasons of vids.

Oh noes, the Interwebs gasped collectively & wrung their hands. Especially in England, they lost their collective ****e over that.

Too bad, they were getting almost too good at self documenting their boating travels, so much they were even poking fun at their own filming & editing skills.

"Yes, we do script everything. In fact, these aren't mountains & glaciers behind us, it's all green screen..."

I could see wanting to stop, just wish they delete everything.


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh. I have no problem with shooting pretty much anything if you're eating it. That's how they were living up there...just like has been done for eons...despite the British.


----------



## Minnesail

There are a lot of black bear. As long as they had the proper license shoot all that's legal.

Now if they were shooting endangered lions from game preserves that'd be a different thing.


----------



## dilligaf0220

Minnesail said:


> There are a lot of black bear. As long as they had the proper license shoot all that's legal.
> 
> Now if they were shooting endangered lions from game preserves that'd be a different thing.


Really? Somehow a dentist from Minnesota bagging a lion in Zimbabwe on a boxed hunt equates to shooting a black bear how again?

Winnie The Pooh was Canadian btw...and we need to shoot more of those overpopulated honey loving 400lb raccoons. Never had a bear burger, but a slow roasted bear butt was like venison pulled pork.


----------



## Minnesail

It doesn't equate at all! I specifically said "that'd be a different thing."

And I agree with you about shooting more, I said they should all that it is legal to shoot.

Good for them for hunting for their own sustenance. It's a shame people got in a tizzy about it, if that is what happened.


----------



## smackdaddy

The lion thing was douchebaggery. The bear thing was dinner.

Completely different kettle of victuals.


----------



## MarkSF

I had this explained to me while on safari in South Africa. All the animals you see in an African game reserve have a price - there's essentially an official price list. They are traded between parks, even between parks and zoos. You can shoot any animal in a reserve, as long as you pay the replacement price, and get the required permits etc. I think that's what our dentist friend assumed was going on. In this case they shot an older lion that was going to die soon, anyway. The difference is that hunted animals normally get a quick death, as opposed to a long, slow, painful, lingering one (I understand it went wrong in this case, and the animal took two days to die). Culling older animals allows replacement with new, young ones. Some people might not like this system, but that is how it works. 

Now, if you were to question the motives of someone who wants to kill a rare, magnificent animal just for sport, not for food, I would be in agreement with you. I'd certainly be looking for another dentist!


----------



## TakeFive

MarkSF said:


> ...Culling older animals allows replacement with new, young ones. Some people might not like this system, but that is how it works...


It sounds like he wasn't that old, since he had a pride of young cubs. And the preserve manager is saying that the other males will kill the cubs, which could wipe out the gene lineage for the rare black mane that was so admired.

I'm not sure it's as simple as you make it sound. In this case, it sounds like playing with mother nature will have some negative unintended consequences...all so this douchebag can get his jollies.


----------



## MarkSF

Yes I agree. But I think most people might assume that a reserve means a place where animals are protected. This isn't the case, in a private reserve it means that they are managed.


----------



## smackdaddy

MarkSF said:


> Yes I agree. But I think most people might assume that a reserve means a place where animals are protected. This isn't the case, in a private reserve it means that they are managed.


Which typically means they are "trained" to go and hang out where the hunting blinds are.

It's like deer hunting here in Texas (and likely elsewhere). You put a feeder in a clearing that automatically drops corn at dawn and dusk every day. Then you go out during the season, climb up in the blind, and "hunt" these trained, corn-eating deer while drinking your Lone Star. I don't mind real hunting, but that's ridiculous.


----------



## ultraclyde

I'd certainly feel better about the whole situation if the dentist was force fed the lion. Even now.


maybe even MORE now.....


----------



## robert sailor

smackdaddy said:


> Which typically means they are "trained" to go and hang out where the hunting blinds are.
> 
> It's like deer hunting here in Texas (and likely elsewhere). You put a feeder in a clearing that automatically drops corn at dawn and dusk every day. Then you go out during the season, climb up in the blind, and "hunt" these trained, corn-eating deer while drinking your Lone Star. I don't mind real hunting, but that's ridiculous.


Depends on your view of what "real hunting" means. Having said that there are more deer in North America today than when Chris Columbus dropped in for a visit. Certainly not going to run out of deer!


----------



## smackdaddy

robert sailor said:


> Depends on your view of what "real hunting" means. Having said that there are more deer in North America today than when Chris Columbus dropped in for a visit. Certainly not going to run out of deer!


Well, I don't know how many deer were here when CC hit the beach - but I understand what you're saying.

We have a family ranch in west Texas that we lease for deer hunting - so I'm familiar with the various issues. I'm just saying I have very little respect for this type of "hunting". At least have the courage to call it "culling" or "population control" or "shooting fish in a barrel" or, better yet, "lame effort".

It's definitely not "hunting". Otherwise, your average American dentist couldn't do it.


----------



## bigdogandy

smackdaddy said:


> Then you go out during the season, climb up in the blind, and "hunt" these trained, corn-eating deer while drinking your Lone Star. I don't mind real hunting, but that's ridiculous.


I agree....that's not hunting, that's shopping. Kind of like going to the seafood counter at Publix and asking the clerk to throw you a fish so you can say you caught it.


----------



## travlin-easy

What the Hell does this have to do with what the young punks advise about sailing? C'mon guys - give it a break. The damned lion got more press than selling aborted baby parts by the bleeding heart liberal press.

Gary


----------



## smackdaddy

A couple of young punks who were sailing around Alaska got smacked down for shooting a bear. So it counts.


----------



## seaner97

Don't argue w a lawyer, even if they're wrong they'll never admit it. It's why we have judges.


----------



## robert sailor

smackdaddy said:


> Well, I don't know how many deer were here when CC hit the beach - but I understand what you're saying.
> 
> We have a family ranch in west Texas that we lease for deer hunting - so I'm familiar with the various issues. I'm just saying I have very little respect for this type of "hunting". At least have the courage to call it "culling" or "population control" or "shooting fish in a barrel" or, better yet, "lame effort".
> 
> It's definitely not "hunting". Otherwise, your average American dentist couldn't do it.


No, baiting is not hunting in my view either. It is illegal to bait wild game in Canada except for black bear in a couple of provinces and I don't even agree with that. My Father was a Game Warden when I was a kid and the view was that if you don't plan on eating it, don't kill it and when you do make sure the shot is placed so that the animal never suffers.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another set of Young Punks to follow:


----------



## smackdaddy

More young punks doin' it up!!!






Very, very interesting.

I love all these Young Punks!!! Go sailing!


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - I've watched the whole Uma series...

These Punks are killing me.

Why the HELL do you want to put your life into a basket-case of a boat...especially when you don't _really_ know what you're doing?

I'm an ex-architect and I can understand your mentality. But you are begging for an ass-whoopin'.

Please, Florida, somebody talk some sense. Did you see that keel wobble?


----------



## aeventyr60

Exactly, don't buy a couch...A captains chair with a Gin & Tonic will do me just right, sitting in an exotic anchorage of course.:captain:


----------



## mbianka

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I've watched the whole Uma series...
> 
> These Punks are killing me.
> 
> Why the HELL do you want to put your life into a basket-case of a boat...especially when you don't _really_ know what you're doing?
> 
> I'm an ex-architect and I can understand your mentality. But you are begging for an ass-whoopin'.
> 
> Please, Florida, somebody talk some sense. Did you see that keel wobble?


Agree. Definitely got to love their tenacity. They appear to have a little more money compared to some others just starting out at their age. So they can afford to make some mistakes. Scary the survey did not pick up on the keel damage. Even scarier is them using foam board for the replacement stringers. I'm no structural materials engineer but, that looks like an accident waiting to happen. Though maybe they know something about foam board's structural strength than my feeling.


----------



## dilligaf0220

The strength in a cored composite doesn't really come from the core...so I'll give'em a pass on that.
But that brings up another thing that irks me about the YouTube generation, hand anyone a Mac & GoPro and suddenly they're an applauded expert. 

There was one vid I stumbled across where a 20 something was producing a How-To series on buying his first boat. He's tapping away on the hull & deck with a screwdriver, talking about checking for rotten cores...problem was the boat he was on had a solid glass hull & deck.

SailingSimplicity always rubbed me that way as well.


----------



## smackdaddy

mbianka said:


> They appear to have a little more money compared to some others just starting out at their age. So they can afford to make some mistakes.


I agree that they do seem to have some money. So their first mistake was the biggest conceivable one you can make - buying a "cheap" boat that is a freakin' basket-case.


----------



## sailvayu

I have to agree with dilligaf0220 I do not understand why buying a boat makes some folks instant experts, sort of like staying at a Holiday Inn. I see this all the time on Youtube and blogs in one blog the wife said her husband would never do any electrical work at home but was rewiring the boat and in their blog giving advice on how to do it! In others I see the people bill themselves as "world travelers" but have only sailed the east coast to the carib or never left the med and these folks are telling others how to sail the world. Oh well seems if you are young or can put up a fancy web site with neat graphics that is all you need. That said there are some good blogs and videos, I have always liked Yacht teleport and Drakes stuff (although his new stuff is a bit slow) because these folks are just showing what they did and not trying to be "experts" The younger generation also has a bit of an instant gratification attitude and do not seem willing to take the time to learn what they should. Maybe it is just the old bastard in me that has me feel like that lol. (hope I am not too old to climb down off the soap box lol)


----------



## smackdaddy

I've watched a few of your videos Wayne. They are awesome. Seriously. 

Two I remember being very useful to me were the radar cable pull through the mast and the steering system maintenance. Great stuff - from an actual expert. Keep them coming.


----------



## Sal Paradise

smackdaddy said:


> Why the HELL do you want to put your life into a basket-case of a boat...especially when you don't _really_ know what you're doing?
> 
> I'm an ex-architect and I can understand your mentality. But you are begging for an ass-whoopin'.


Really? I'm an architect, just trying to survive 5 more years in this crazy buisness until I can become an " ex-architect "


----------



## smackdaddy

Sal Paradise said:


> Really? I'm an architect, just trying to survive 5 more years in this crazy buisness until I can become an " ex-architect "


Hang in there - it's a good day when it happens. Actually, I was only in it for 4 years after school. I pretty quickly realized it wasn't where I needed to be.

However, I still think Architecture school is just about the best possible education there is.


----------



## krisscross

My son in law graduated with a BS in Architecture. He has been working in food industry ever since.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Ha! He is probably better off. I graduated from Pratt and promptly started my job loading trucks on the midnight shift. 

But did eventully get a career and a license. I do okay...but its a terrible buisness for us small fry type architects.

Architecture school is hard, I'm not so sure it's good - for anything.


----------



## Sea&Stars

Ah Hemm ... Back on topic , here's my favorite young punks ...






and BTW wanna see a middle aged man screwing on a sailboat...






Yea the soundtrack does sound like it belongs in a porno....

Be sure to click subscribe!


----------



## krisscross

Yes, at least he gets free food at work. 
He is starting his MS in Social Work this month. Better job prospects.
I think thin new crop of young punks has it pretty hard.


----------



## miatapaul

My youngest is thinking about Architecture, but I am lucky he has realized he does not have the portfolio to get into one of the schools he is thinking about. He is thinking double major of Architecture and Acting from an Ivy League college, that sounds like a good use of about $300,000! Well what do I know I was a Philosophy major, though not from an Ivy.


----------



## smackdaddy

Sea&Stars said:


> Ah Hemm ... Back on topic , here's my favorite young punks ...







Agreed. Thanks for pointing them out. Good stuff...








Sea&Stars said:


> ...and BTW wanna see a middle aged man screwing on a sailboat...


Absolutely not. No way I'm clicking on that link.


----------



## miatapaul

smackdaddy said:


> More young punks doin' it up!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very, very interesting.
> 
> I love all these Young Punks!!! Go sailing!





smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I've watched the whole Uma series...
> 
> These Punks are killing me.
> 
> Why the HELL do you want to put your life into a basket-case of a boat...especially when you don't _really_ know what you're doing?
> 
> I'm an ex-architect and I can understand your mentality. But you are begging for an ass-whoopin'.
> 
> Please, Florida, somebody talk some sense. Did you see that keel wobble?


I think they seemed to have bought a boat based on a survey, without even seeing the boat. Not a good idea, especially an old boat. Though I have to say the Pearson 36 is a nice boat but one without a working motor, that has NO value let alone the keel damage, so I hope they did not pay much for it. They are going to try to do an electric set up, will keep an eye on that one as there goals seem a bit unrealistic. They really should get there money back from the surveyor, unless it was a survey from the previous owners. The way the floor was hacked up it obvious that the previous owners knew it was an issue.

Though they seem like a nice couple, oh to be young, dumb, idealistic and in love. Shame they will likely come crashing down into reality.


----------



## krisscross

miatapaul said:


> Though they seem like a nice couple, oh to be young, dumb, idealistic and in love. Shame they will likely come crashing down into reality.


We all have to learn our own way. These days I catch myself looking at people like I look at boats: "no good engine, soft deck, baggy sails, too wide transom... uh, scrap 'em!" :|


----------



## Minnesail

krisscross said:


> We all have to learn our own way. These days I catch myself looking at people like I look at boats: "no good engine, soft deck, baggy sails, too wide transom... uh, scrap 'em!" :|


I dunno. I kinda like a wide transom.


----------



## alanr77

First, I'll contribute:

Sail Panache | Strutting across the Pacific

Then, I'll comment:

I used to watch a lot of the video's and blogs of these young people doing this. I still do to some extent. But, being honest with you people, they started to make me feel bad about what I've done in life. I chose a career path and the career landed me in Germany at 18 so I guess I did do something fun and it allowed me to travel and do a lot of different things. But at the same time I was grounded and had to live within a very strict set of rules and guidelines. I used this time to go to college, do the family thing and checked off the list of things that our society tells us we need to do. Experience buying a new car, experience buying a new house, experience getting married, experience becoming a father and so on and so on and so on. Yet, I look at these people with envy. Can I and will I do all of this now? You bet your a$$. But, at the same time, age has made me a lot less freelance than I was at 20. At 20 it was much easier for me to live in the moment and enjoy the uncertainty of whats happening tomorrow. Now, age and a little experience has made me more cautious and I think things through before just setting off. I don't know if I am articulating this properly but I think many will agree that the experience is not the same. Reckless abandon is only fun when you aren't thinking about how reckless it is. In a way, the innocence is lost once you become "self aware" of your own mortality. Did I make the right choices in life? In general, society would say yes. I did what everyone else did and what the majority of people will continue to do. But these people were stronger than that. These people decided now was a better time and that they would sort things out as it happens. These experiences will change their lives and the person they become will be a very different person than who they would be if they followed the well beaten path. I applaud them and I hope that anyone contemplating doing what they do; use their example and do it. But, as others have pointed out, this "young punk" thing is not new at all. My original "young punk" that I admired and used for inspiration was James Baldwin of Atom fame. Atom Voyages - Home His was the first that I came across and I still go back and read it to this day.

Now I am hardly old, being 38 I'm right at that point where you can identify and empathize with the older crowd and yet still grasp with a white knuckled death grip the ideals of youth. And with that I have found that age only starts to be your identity when you dig your heels in and stop progressing with the world around you. It's only then that the person becomes the "bitter old man". Our world has become increasingly social and it's the norm now to share your world with others. I have found that if you embrace it and get out there with the younger generation it's a helluva lot of fun and you don't feel left behind because you remain part of the scene. Stay relevant. The online world allows you to do so from the comfort of your old couch while sitting in your ****** tightys. Just make sure your webcam is off.


----------



## smackdaddy

alanr77 said:


> Yet, I look at these people with envy. Can I and will I do all of this now? You bet your a$$. But, at the same time, age has made me a lot less freelance than I was at 20.
> 
> *Reckless abandon is only fun when you aren't thinking about how reckless it is. In a way, the innocence is lost once you become "self aware" of your own mortality. *
> 
> Did I make the right choices in life? In general, society would say yes. I did what everyone else did and what the majority of people will continue to do. *But these people were stronger than that. *


I think you're making some very, very good points. But I don't think these young people were/are "stronger" - they're just "free lance" as you say. Their calculus is just different - less complete - more "reckless".

I've done both. I blew off the traditional path after graduating with a degree in architecture and went into the Peace Corp for 2 years in my 20s. Then I came back and went very much into the mainstream by starting a business - and I've been doing that for years now.

It's not about "strength" to me, it's about doing what really interests you - and not having to have every single ramification defined before you do it.

As you say, I agree that it gets harder to do this as you get older - and that's a good thing, I think. But THAT in itself takes strength when you decide to do it anyway...even when the equation doesn't make total sense. That's what convinced me to start our trip to the Carib.

So, I too admire the Young Punks. But I also admire the Old Punks who are out there doing this thing we all love.

The water is just as clear, the turtles and dolphins just as awe-inspiring, etc.


----------



## scubadoo

krisscross said:


> My son in law graduated with a BS in Architecture. He has been working in food industry ever since.


If he'd like to work in his field, please have him contact me! We have offices all over the world and are in serious need of young talent.

PS. I'm hoping to be an x-architect one day myself!


----------



## krisscross

scubadoo said:


> If he'd like to work in his field, please have him contact me! We have offices all over the world and are in serious need of young talent.
> 
> PS. I'm hoping to be an x-architect one day myself!


Thanks! PM on it's way to you.


----------



## Sal Paradise

alanr77 said:


> First, I'll contribute:
> 
> Sail Panache | Strutting across the Pacific
> 
> Then, I'll comment:
> 
> I used to watch a lot of the video's and blogs of these young people doing this. I still do to some extent. But, being honest with you people, they started to make me feel bad about what I've done in life. I chose a career path and the career.. But at the same time I was grounded and had to live within a very strict set of rules and guidelines. I used this time to go to college, do the family thing and checked off the list of things that our society tells us we need to do. Did I make the right choices in life? In general, society would say yes. I did what everyone else did and what the majority of people will continue to do. But these people were stronger than that. These people decided now was a better time and that they would sort things out as it happens. .....
> 
> Now I am hardly old, being 38 I'm right at that point where you can identify and empathize with the older crowd ......


No, - first off - beautiful blog! Fantastic pictures. I will check it further.

I'm 50 and I really really really did what everyone else did, married, career,kids - I dont have a blog like that!!!! I think you did allright.


----------



## alanr77

whoa!!! Sal: that's not my blog. They were just in line with Smack's young punk thread. I said contribute as in share what I had found. Give credit where credit is due.


----------



## Sea&Stars

Oh here's another couple that seem to be getting younger by the day ... Must be the lifestyle...






The cat's a genius, for a cat. 
Enjoy

Sea&Stars


----------



## aeventyr60

^Jaime & Liz were at the boat yard here in Satun, Thailand, always a lot of laughs with these folks. They also have a section of "interview with cruisers" an interesting take on the cruising life.

followtheboat - tales (not just) from the high seas


----------



## RTB

I just finished reading this on Kindle - Living on Island Time, All the Time: Sailing and the Pursuit of Happiness, Kristen Miller - [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@514E3BXYuOL

Written with a younger (under 30) viewpoint than I'm used to. I'd definitely recommend it to the up and coming Young Punks, because of the writer's perspective. Their blog is still up, but their cruising ended a while back - The Log of Whisper

Ralph


----------



## bob77903

RTB said:


> I'd definitely recommend it
> 
> Ralph


Only young punks can recommend on this thread, you need to start a Senior Citizen Thread so you can post that stuff....lol

Oh, my bad, my post belongs on the fight club thread:devil


----------



## RTB

Don't you need to look for a couple of LH thread nuts or something? :laugh

Ralph


----------



## bob77903

RTB said:


> Don't you need to look for a couple of LH thread nuts or something? :laugh
> 
> Ralph


I found them in you and Smack.....:grin


----------



## RTB

Funny! But I think smack got cross-threaded along the way somewhere. But, as a fellow Hunter owner, I got to give him some cred. I'm sure his boys will straighten him out sooner or later, but might take some time. 

Ralph


----------



## Capt Len

The numbers stamped on a whitworth wrench can be misleading when judging the nuts needed for the job. Cross threading is a different and common issue.


----------



## Sea&Stars

OK, here's a bump to get back on topic and address aerial photography and what it will take. I don't think these guys are sailors but they have a wealth of info relevant to using go pros and multi-copters.






Be sure to visit their web site it has tons of in depth info.


----------



## JonEisberg

Whitebread117 said:


> Originally Posted by BoatyardBoy
> I thought this video was really cool
> 
> Atlantic Crossing on a Superyacht. - YouTube
> 
> Anchorman - I love scotch - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> I could have done with a bit more real time and a bit less time-lapse, but I was still cool with it until they threw the 55 gallon Texaco oil/fuel drum overboard. (Jump to 3:03 if you just want the relevant few seconds of the video)
> 
> W.T.F.
> 
> Your empty soup/vegetable can (in deep water), sure. But not a freakin petroleum drum. Even empty, there's still residue. We've got enough of that still floating around thanks to BP and Exxon, no excuse to be throwing that kind of trash over the side.
Click to expand...

Ooops, those Young Punks have been shamed into taking that video down from YouTube, the result of a thread someone started over on Cruiser's Forum...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/dumping-empty-fuel-barrels-in-the-ocean-151664.html

Just add them to the list of Donald Trump's _LOSERS_, I guess, meekly bowing to the pressure of Political Correctness like that...

;-)


----------



## smackdaddy

You do realize it's the Gray-Hair Skipper making the Young Punk Crew help him toss the barrel?


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> You do realize it's the Gray-Hair Skipper making the Young Punk Crew help him toss the barrel?


Yeah, but it was the Young Punks who were the ones stupid enough to include that in their video, and post it on YouTube...

;-)


----------



## smackdaddy

Maybe they wanted to out the guy? Worked.


----------



## dilligaf0220

Dumping diesel barrels in the middle of the Atlantic bugs me less than your average CF geriatric running the genny on their Island Packet all damn night so they can run their A/C.

Now eating the juvenile Marlin...HANG'EM FROM THE YARDARM!


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Maybe they wanted to out the guy? Worked.


I think that's quite a stretch... Why did they delete the video, and the relevant post from their blog, in that case?

The explanation from "drum thrower" over on CF was that they were compelled to dump it, due to the risk of having it on deck during the forecast of a period of 30-40 knot winds, and 20-30 foot seas...

Too bad no footage of anything remotely approaching 'Heavy Weather Sailing' made the final cut, might have been pretty cool to see a "Superyacht" dealing with such conditions, no?

Couldn't take the chance of getting a Go-Pro wet, I suppose...

;-)


----------



## geekatlrg

I don’t think grey hair is part of the cowabunga young punk group I believe he was the captain and young punks were the crew. 
Why else would they edit it in to the middle of dolphins or did they really chuck it while a pod of dolphins were swimming with the boat? 
Either way I think the response posted on CF is nothing but a cute story. The blog never spoke of this weather event and as narcissist as the young punks are they would have embellished a storm of that order to anyone that would listen. 

Credit for the shame should go to r/sailing on reddit not CF they got the ball rolling.

get off my lawn!!


----------



## Omatako

geekatlrg said:


> The blog never spoke of this weather event and as narcissist as the young punks are they would have embellished a storm of that order to anyone that would listen.


I think they almost certainly embelished the "storm" if Jon's comment has it's roots in the report/blog.

"The explanation from "drum thrower" over on CF was that they were compelled to dump it, due to the risk of having it on deck during the forecast of a period of 30-40 knot winds, and 20-30 foot seas..."

AFAIK 30-40 knots only just qualifies as a gale, not a storm and I have yet to see a gale generate 20-30ft seas.

But most young punks probably still have to experience a "storm" so exaggeration is probably a realistic reaction to a moderate weather event.

Anyway the last thing you would want is to damage a superyacht - rather ditch the drum and let it damage someone else's boat/property


----------



## dilligaf0220

The Cowabunga crew did end up leaving the world of superyachts & Texaco drums behind, bought a cat in Trinidad and sailed it back to Brisbane. So they're more than X-Games wannabe's who's never seen weather.

I'm just slightly disappointed in them, after all the blather about being rum drinking hard asses and several jabs at nanny state fun police mentality of their native Oz...they delete videos & slink off from CF with a limp wrist & sore arse. Buncha puff's.


----------



## smackdaddy

dilligaf0220 said:


> The Cowabunga crew did end up leaving the world of superyachts & Texaco drums behind, bought a cat in Trinidad and sailed it back to Brisbane. So they're more than X-Games wannabe's who's never seen weather.
> 
> I'm just slightly disappointed in them, after all the blather about being rum drinking hard asses and several jabs at nanny state fun police mentality of their native Oz...they delete videos & slink off from CF with a limp wrist & sore arse. Buncha puff's.


Man, if *CF* can give one a sore arse - one's got very, very little cowabunga in his/her blood.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey! Another couple of Young Punks out there doin' it up!


----------



## smackdaddy

And here's another Young Punk doin' it up!!!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsLbpeAg0c__xcEh0QbcUKg


----------



## travlin-easy

Neat video!

Gary


----------



## Minnesail

I got to watch some young punks tear it up last week.

I organized a group of 46 people on seven boats for a Lake Superior cruise. Part of my job as organizer is to assign crew to boats. I try to take into account age, personality, experience, and who are friends with each other.

As a result of this there was one boat that was definitely young punks, and one boat that was definitely old goats.

The young punks had limited big boat experience, in fact it was the skipper's first charter after his ASA 103/104.

The old goats were mostly boat owners, with decades of big and small boat racing.

The young punks were on a 20-year-old Catalina 36.

The old goats were on a 6-year-old Jeanneau 44.

On our first day out we had to tack up a channel and the young punks pointed higher and sailed faster than the old goats, just marching past them.

(I watched from a Beneteau 39 that was well behind them. I got a late start. It's not a race. I had a green crew. Leave me alone!)

Do you think the young punks were graceful in their victory? Oh no! There were derisive limericks told over the VHF, and later the bonfire. Around 3am someone even stole the old goats' flag…..


----------



## smackdaddy

Go The Young Punks!!!!


----------



## UPHILL

Here is one I found the other day.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKDwgs8H6vi10knucheCpZA

I swear the captain sounds like a airline pilot,,:laugh


----------



## chall03

A really inspiring short film about a family of young punks who have spent 10 years sailing around the world on a 34' wooden boat. Wow.






There blog is cool too.

http://www.vixensvoyage.com

What a great reminder to keep it simple.


----------



## smackdaddy

I posted video from this Young Punk couple a few weeks ago. They have a 1972 Pearson 36, the keel of which was literally about to fall off. You can see the beginning of their discovery and repair here (around 5:00):






I made a comment on their Youtube channel because what they're doing appears to only be external patching - not fixing the real structural problem which is significant.

Then after doing all the above work, they just found a huge failing area in the aft end of the keel stub (at around 1:20) - and, yet again, they appear to only patch the exterior (I don't think they've EVER dropped the keel):






You can see that he seems convinced that because he can no longer wobble the keel with his arms - that it's fine. What blows my mind is that these kids are fresh out of architecture school - and seem to have no concept of the loads that will really be applied to that joint underway.

I'm no nautical architect - nor am I a professional glass-man, but I am an ex-architect, and I'm really, really nervous for these kids. If that keel fails offshore which seems very likely to me - they're done.

They are apparently at a marina somewhere in Ft. Pierce, FL. If some SNer is in that area - go meet them and see what's up with that boat.


----------



## chall03

I reckon there are three potential big fun stoppers on a boat. Loss of Keel, Loss of Rudder and loss of the Standing Rig.

My keel is integral( Although that is no guarantee of problem free) My rudder was just rebuilt and my rigging is 4 years old and inspected yearly and/or before any major offshore trip.

These guys do scare me. I agree Smack they seem a little clueless.


----------



## Don L

chall03 said:


> I reckon there are three potential big fun stoppers on a boat. Loss of Keel, Loss of Rudder and loss of the Standing Rig.


Flooding, fire, weather .............. things much more liikely to happen.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Smack - you are right, that is scary. If the keel was designed to transfer load via internal bolts, you cannot just re-route the loads through some fiberglass on the exterior. No way. That is a sure way to get a large crack.


----------



## chall03

Don - I think you kind of missed my point...but I will play.

Fire- yeah sure but basic safety precautions and simple systems mitigate the risk fairly easily. 

Flooding- I think you will find keel or rudder loss both can flood a boat quite quickly and catastrophically. Most other causes are both treatable and preventable.

Weather- Well..... Wind nor wave is not something that directly sinks a vessel, it may uncover weaknesses in that lead to its demise however.

For me( so yes this is subjective) I reckon the big three things I want to know are right on a boat are stil rudder, keel, and rig. 

Now if we are playing a game of list exhaustively everything that can go wrong on a boat then sure we can keep going.....


----------



## MedSailor

That keel wiggle is going to give me nightmares. Wow...

MedSailor


----------



## downeast450

A glimpse of The Principle of Natural Selection, TCB.

Down


----------



## MedSailor

downeast450 said:


> A glimpse of The Principle of Natural Selection, TCB.
> 
> Down


After having survived my 4.5 month trip of sailing on my 1959 custom 31ft wooden boat, I no longer believe in Darwin. :wink

MedSailor


----------



## downeast450

Successfully ducking bullets doesn't negate the selection theory. It proves it.

Down


----------



## Classic30

smackdaddy said:


> I posted video from this Young Punk couple a few weeks ago. They have a 1972 Pearson 36, the keel of which was literally about to fall off. You can see the beginning of their discovery and repair here (around 5:00):


Thanks for posting that, Smack. After watching it I am REALLY glad I don't own a plastic boat!! :eek


----------



## smackdaddy

I REALLY hope someone knowledgeable in the area finds them. I made a comment for this latest video on their Youtube page begging them to have that keel professionally inspected. If you have a YT account, go add yours on to mine. I don't want to see something bad happen to these guys.


----------



## smackdaddy

Bob posted this video in another thread. Another Young Punk out there rippin it - in one of Bob's boats!!






http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4JqcqrGmFBWH6glXlrLEeQ/videos


----------



## smackdaddy

I really believe that there is a renaissance building in the broader culture for sailing. This article in the high-fashion magazine W illustrates this:

Architect Greg Lynn Designs a Sailboat | W Magazine










The dude is an architect who's sailed all his life - and I love this quote (though it will piss a lot of people off):



> The sleek, elegantly futuristic aesthetic underscores just how outmoded boat design has generally become. "In architecture, we don't even use words like 'cabin' and 'salon' anymore. It's low-hanging fruit to do something good in that industry."


Thoughts?


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> The dude is an architect who's sailed all his life - and I love this quote (though it will piss a lot of people off):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sleek, elegantly futuristic aesthetic underscores just how outmoded boat design has generally become. "In architecture, we don't even use words like 'cabin' and 'salon' anymore. *It's low-hanging fruit to do something good in that industry.*"
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
Click to expand...

That bolded part sure makes him sound like an arrogant little pri_k, to me... ;-)

Gotta love the irony of a guy who derides the use of terms like "cabin", and "salon", and yet...



> ...Using materials like glass fiber, foam, and epoxy, however, Lynn was able to fabricate a *kitchen*, three sleeping berths, a *bathroom*, and what he generously describes as a *"lounge"*...


Certainly seems fitting his boat is featured in a _Fashion Magazine_, alright...

;-)


----------



## seaner97

As long as he prices his boats in the upper range, he'll do ok. They pay real sailors to do the work for them.


----------



## mbianka

“In architecture, we don’t even use words like ‘cabin’ and ‘salon’ anymore."

Hmmm. He might be an "architect" but, he's he does not seem to be a marine architect. Sounds like he designed the interior and the other fellow Fred (the Yacht Designer) made sure it would not break apart.


----------



## robert sailor

The man is silly and doesn't know any better. Certain professions have a language on to themselves that they use to communicate with others. In aviation we know what someone means when they say cockpit or cabin. In sailing we say sheets or halyards and galleys and heads. Our Architect friend is trying to impress someone, not sure who? Lol


----------



## seaner97

He's just doing what he does. Make something look cool to his eye regardless of functionality. Someone (probably lots of someones) will buy it.


----------



## XSrcing

I just turned 32 and got my first boat just a few months ago. It's a training boat for the wife and I as we both want something bigger when our baby boy is no longer a baby. I say that as the 10 month old porker is already wearing 2-3 year old clothes. End game is to retire on a boat and call Squalicum Harbor home port as we sail off to wherever we desire. Until then, I don't mind playing Skipper on the weekends and annoying people like Bob Perry and Maine Sail with countless questions.

As for GoPro's, I have a Hero3+ Black and my only gripe is the battery life.


----------



## travlin-easy

One of the things young punks can do is pee over the side and not get the boat wet. When you get old you end up peeing on your shoes, thus the invention of plastic urinals.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## Sal Paradise

smackdaddy said:


> I really believe that there is a renaissance building in the broader culture for sailing. This article in the high-fashion magazine W illustrates this:
> 
> Architect Greg Lynn Designs a Sailboat | W Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dude is an architect who's sailed all his life - and I love this quote (though it will piss a lot of people off):
> 
> Thoughts?


The guy is talented, I have seen his work.... very talented..... no doubt but architects know -the real talent he has is networking and jumping into other peoples projects. More power to him, sailing with Frank Gehry and a contractor. You couldn't drag me on board.

I'd rather go sailing with the stoners who live on the Crealock 34 a few slips over, and some drunk chicks we met while getting beer at the 7-Eleven .


----------



## travlin-easy




----------



## bobperry

XS:
You never annoy me. I enjoy answering questions when I can.


----------



## Sea&Stars

OK another couple we can expect great things from ...


----------



## smackdaddy

Awesome! What an incredibly nice boat. I'm now following.

Thanks Sea.

Go The Young Punks!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Here is a blog for their previous adventures...

Turf to Surf | Travel and Sailing Blog


----------



## mbianka

Young couple head out across the North Sea in a 19 foot sailboat. Especially love the beginning and end of the video.


----------



## smackdaddy

Go the Guido!!






https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDJIgr5AVMYuQnS_eugSvlA/videos


----------



## MedSailor

Merry Christmas!







PS anyone know what the soundtrack is?


----------



## casey1999

MedSailor said:


> PS anyone know what the soundtrack is?


http://www.ofmonstersandmen.com/
Band is "Of Monsters and Men" from Iceland, Song is "Dirty Paws"- now touring US and the world and be in Hawaii April 17th- I'll be there...


----------



## Mark1948

I just love watching the guys with gopros on snowboards do face plants. It truly is a lasting memory of _____.


----------



## smackdaddy

These Young Punks are great...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV2qERQTaNHbI9lzMjAhslg


----------



## XSrcing

Been following them for a few weeks now. Good stuff.


----------



## northernsquirrel

I think this thread really qualifies as metaphor. I think old and bitter is where there has been hardship without sufficient redemption or play. Young or punk- What is really going on is a beginner's mind.I think it's zen. I truly appreciate every day and whatever I do just because it is new. Kiteboarding at 52. kiteskiing. Sailing the macgregor so far over the rail is wet and the rudder loses steering authority. I know it's not fast or efficient, but man is it fun. And i'm giggling. 

Yes, I've had some down days, seen some pretty horrible things happen. Lost some friends. Came pretty close several times. One in particular made me really evaluate what is truly important. Ever since then (age26), I do try to live my life to the fullest. Duty called first, but now as I said to the missus, Babe, we gotta go play. And we shall. BVI charter, our boat will be the dancing boat- typically Michael Franti, Black Uhuru, Johnny Clegg and Juluka, etc. And every day that you open yourself up to the unknown, the mysterious, that is truly punk mind. What I love is young punk mind, and if you open your mind to a little bit of what the punk mind sees, you may find yourself transported to a better place, free of old and bitter.


----------



## smackdaddy

Even more Young Punks out doing it:






This seems to be an out and out trend.


----------



## mbianka

smackdaddy said:


> Even more Young Punks out doing it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seems to be an out and out trend.


Interesting watching the transport. Would love to know the backstory how these young punks could afford a brand new Foutine Pajot Cat? When I was their age I was tooling around with my fifteen year old 24 foot Bristol 24. I'm not jealous I had some great memories with that old Bristol. Plus it was paid for.  I think for most young folks starting out this way would be a no go. Would be interesting to see how they make out with a brand new boat.


----------



## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> .....Would love to know the backstory how these young punks could afford a brand new Foutine Pajot Cat?........I think for most young folks starting out this way would be a no go.......


I often wonder where the money comes from, not just in young cruisers, but even the middle aged that seem to cruise for many years on end. I can get my head around saving enough or stumbling on enough for the one or two year bucket list cruise, but the pre-retirement lifestyle conversions are the mysteries to me. I can only think of the following......


Some had good jobs and saved a few bucks, then live as frugally as possible.

Some seem to be able to work aboard, but very few professions are practical, nor do many of these stories seem to have employment involved.

Some inherited or were gifted enough to live on, but I've never heard it acknowledged, if so.

Some skip on expenses such as medical care/insurance and retirement savings, when young. (I just hope they don't become indigent and the responsibility of others when they age)

Some are supplementing their resources by asking for money in their videos. The rarest few have sponsors.

I also wonder about their family dynamics. While you see kids aboard occasionally, most are kidless. I often wonder how close they are, on average, to other family? Do they need or desire to visit siblings, parents, etc, on holidays or otherwise? My long term plan involves being able to fly home from anywhere in the world at least 3 or 4 times per year and to offer to send plane tickets to the kids to come visit with us at least once per year. To be fair, I don't expect to be cruising permanently, rather for a few years, then do the 6 mo away and 6 mo in New England annually. Still, I plan to fly home over holidays.

I do wish we knew more about how the cruising lifestyle is funded. Many dream about it. Many say, just do it. But I wonder if the inspirational stories are repeatable, if you don't fit or desire to be in one of the above. Are there others?

I think only those that are actually doing it can provide valid input, rather than those, like me, that speculate. One's financial circumstances are typically considered very private, so I don't expect too much of an expose here.


----------



## smackdaddy

mbianka said:


> Interesting watching the transport. Would love to know the backstory how these young punks could afford a brand new Foutine Pajot Cat? When I was their age I was tooling around with my fifteen year old 24 foot Bristol 24. I'm not jealous I had some great memories with that old Bristol. Plus it was paid for.  I think for most young folks starting out this way would be a no go. Would be interesting to see how they make out with a brand new boat.


My very strong hunch for "Starry Horizons"...tech.

In the case of "Cheeky Monkey" - she apparently started a very successful ESL school in NY and expanded it internationally. All this after being a Peace Corps Volunteer (one of my peeps). She then sold the school and he sold whatever business he was running and they went sailing. Good on 'em.


----------



## mbianka

smackdaddy said:


> My very strong hunch for "Starry Horizons"...tech.
> 
> In the case of "Cheeky Monkey" - she apparently started a very successful ESL school in NY and expanded it internationally. All this after being a Peace Corps Volunteer (one of my peeps). She then sold the school and he sold whatever business he was running and they went sailing. Good on 'em.


Yeah Internet tech money can be a fast way to bring in the big bucks if you are lucky enough to be at the right company at the right time. Of course it's had it's boom and bust cycle too.

Starting your own business can also be a good way too. If the business is successful and you don't have to be there 24/7 and/or can sell it before it consumes you. I always advise young people to think about starting their own business or at least start investing when they are young. I wish I had. Though I worked at a corporation where an opportunity came along where I could stop working at 45 full time. I still needed to do freelance work but, my wants and needs were/are simple. Doubt if opportunities like that are available in today's workplace too often.

The fellow on Delious was in tech he decided to get out and go now. Then stop and go back to work when the money runs out.

The Wicked Salty punk worked his ass off after college waiting tables/hospitality saved up enough to buy his boat and then took off. Gotta love that gumption!

Then of course Lin and Larry Pardy were a team. Larry built the boats Lin wrote the articles and books to fund their lifestyle. A great read about how that worked is Lin's book BULL CANYON.


----------



## smackdaddy

And another...


----------



## colemj

Minnewaska said:


> I often wonder where the money comes from, not just in young cruisers, but even the middle aged that seem to cruise for many years on end. I can get my head around saving enough or stumbling on enough for the one or two year bucket list cruise, but the pre-retirement lifestyle conversions are the mysteries to me. I can only think of the following......
> 
> 
> Some had good jobs and saved a few bucks, then live as frugally as possible.
> 
> Some seem to be able to work aboard, but very few professions are practical, nor do many of these stories seem to have employment involved.
> 
> Some inherited or were gifted enough to live on, but I've never heard it acknowledged, if so.
> 
> Some skip on expenses such as medical care/insurance and retirement savings, when young. (I just hope they don't become indigent and the responsibility of others when they age)
> 
> Some are supplementing their resources by asking for money in their videos. The rarest few have sponsors.
> 
> I also wonder about their family dynamics. While you see kids aboard occasionally, most are kidless. I often wonder how close they are, on average, to other family? Do they need or desire to visit siblings, parents, etc, on holidays or otherwise? My long term plan involves being able to fly home from anywhere in the world at least 3 or 4 times per year and to offer to send plane tickets to the kids to come visit with us at least once per year. To be fair, I don't expect to be cruising permanently, rather for a few years, then do the 6 mo away and 6 mo in New England annually. Still, I plan to fly home over holidays.
> 
> I do wish we knew more about how the cruising lifestyle is funded. Many dream about it. Many say, just do it. But I wonder if the inspirational stories are repeatable, if you don't fit or desire to be in one of the above. Are there others?
> 
> I think only those that are actually doing it can provide valid input, rather than those, like me, that speculate. One's financial circumstances are typically considered very private, so I don't expect too much of an expose here.


I think you hit most of the points. Our story is that we left full time cruising when we were 45 (me) and 40 (Michele). While not young punks, we find ourselves among the youngest out here. Salient points:

* We had decent salary jobs with good medical benefits and 401k match.
* We drove 10-20yr old cars, lived in a small inexpensive older house, and have no children. We weren't consumer-oriented, so not much money sunk in entertainment systems and chasing other similar stuff. We did not feel "entitled" to regular expensive vacations.
* We focused on funding retirement plans to the max, so if things go pear shaped in the mean time, we have some safety net later on.
* The rest of our money we saved and invested - the cruising goal was always foremost on our minds.

We don't spend holidays with family (we don't even own the clothing or shoes anymore which would allow this!), But we do visit them most every summer. This is one of our largest cruising expenses.

The 6 on, 6 off thing is very common, but more expensive. The reality is that very, very few cruising grounds are truly year round ones. Almost always, one is "hiding" somewhere for a couple of months waiting out the "bad" season. In the Caribbean, this is typically summer, and is when we visit family. We have also begun to use this time to explore inland and other places not accessible by boat.

The most important thing one can do before setting out cruising is to succinctly define what they want to accomplish and how they want to live. It sounds like you are doing well in this regards.

You would be shocked at the number of new retirees who only have an unexamined and unrealistic view of a Club Med cruising lifestyle and rush out headlong in search of it - only to be very disappointed and unhappy (and usually broke within a short time). I'm guessing 50% setting out fit this - we can spot them across a room.

Mark


----------



## robert sailor

Mark,
Generally your observations are pretty legit. I might add that while you are indeed one of the younger cruisers, 30 years ago you would have been one of the older ones..crazy eh! People who set out cruising are often disallusioned with the whole scene. Boat costs can run to as high as 50% of your total budget if you are a real longtime voyager and certainly a lot less if you hang around in one general area but generally many cruisers have not set realistic long term budgets. Good on you and your wife for good planning and not getting caught up in the consumerism society that we all live in these days. Most of the cruisers we have met have been business owners and that has allowed them the flexibility to make a lot of choices. We also ran our own business for years and have the budget to hang out as long as we want to. There are 2 commodities that rule, time and money. Money can be made and we always know what we have in the bank so that makes time the most important as we never know how much we have and we can't make more when we run out. Good post by the way.


----------



## Sea&Stars

Yet another couple of punks on the run...


----------



## bob77903

I notice several young cruising couples doing the Patreon thing. Is that the secret? Have someone else pay for it. How do I get people to send me money, never mind, I wasn't brought up that way.


----------



## 2Gringos

bob77903 said:


> How do I get people to send me money, ....


I was going to say become a televangelist or democrat, but never mind. I see you're in South Texas. Nothing I can teach you about either.


----------



## outbound

Think the majority are 55-70 y. o. 's. Yes, see a few young couples but they seem the exception. This view is probably biased as being in this age group they are my peer group so live similar lives and cruise in similar ways.
Most still keep some dirt dwelling. Be it an apartment, condo, in law or smaller house. Most have drawn equity from a larger or more expensive dwelling to fund their cruising. Due to seasons and family they occupy that abode for a few months. They still use the boat then but not full time. During that time they take care of the chores of life. Most are fully retired with perhaps a occasional consulting or other gig. 
Given this most have planned for this for decades. Net worth multiples of outstanding debt. They may have debt but can pay off all debt at any moment. Some have no debt service but this number fell in response to Feds keeping rates down in recent years. They have been frugal and wise with their money. Don't piss it away. Having lived through multiple bull/bear markets they are fully diversified in multiple markets and alternative investments. This allows less volitility but less return. Still it allows solid financial planning. The general mentality is risk adversive.
With financial planner budgets are regularly reviewed from quick book downloads or the like. Given a good financial planner and accountant and personal lawyer the whole thing is basically on autopilot needing just monthly downloads and telephone calls. 
However, this requires work and planning. The cruisers I know come from all walks of life. Wage slaves, small business owners, professionals, trust fund babies. The universal trait is they play chess not checkers with their lives. Cruising has been a long term goal. Has been planned for decades. The future mechanics and expenses thought though. Those who get a golden parachute then go to a boat show then buy a boat then take off have more difficulties. 
Have met successful cruisers who started with no boating experience. However, even those were playing chess. They had planned. Choice was were they going to bop around the world on a plane or their own boat. Were they going to have several houses to suit the seasons or a boat and pied a terre. 
This thinking is done at all strata. Have cruising friends who were single income retired school teacher couple from Arkansas, union plumber from Boston, docs, print shop owner, general contractor, Brahmin blue bloods etc. takes work to develop the cruising kitty. Takes work to maintain it.


----------



## mbianka

bob77903 said:


> I notice several young cruising couples doing the Patreon thing. Is that the secret? Have someone else pay for it. How do I get people to send me money, never mind, I wasn't brought up that way.


As long as they just ask and don't put a gun to someones head I see no issue. Better than panhandling on the streets IMO. I will throw a few bucks at a few who strike my fancy over the winter. Though my main focus is funding the Captain Mike Fund for Living.


----------



## mbianka

outbound said:


> Think the majority are 55-70 y. o. 's. Yes, see a few young couples but they seem the exception. This view is probably biased as being in this age group they are my peer group so live similar lives and cruise in similar ways.


I agree that most fit into this category. Though I sometimes wonder about two young punks on two different boats I met in New York waters while cruising late October 2012. Two single fellows in their 20's and early 30's who bought boats with limited sailing experience. One I met at 79th Street and the other in Port Washington. Their stories were similar. They quit work to follow "the dream". Wanted to do it now before marriage kids etc...got in the way. They were both heading south. This was just a few days before Hurricane Sandy hit. I sometimes wonder how far they got?


----------



## ChristinaM

We've met 2 young couples who bought boats in Florida with no sailing experience. I think they each hired a captain for the Gulf Stream crossing. One did a 1 1/2 year cruise and made it to the BVIs & back. The other's been out for a few years and just started working as crew on a charter boat in the BVIs after a summer in Grenada. Not the approach we took but they're both happy with their choices.


----------



## smackdaddy

And even more Young Punks taking the plunge...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgAW5P0Xf4iOBAr4PSQ9oRQ/videos


----------



## snaggletooth

smackdaddy said:


> And even more Young Punks taking the plunge...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgAW5P0Xf4iOBAr4PSQ9oRQ/videos


Sorrey Smackey,

Coudente do holle thing, voise is greatteng on me.

Snaggs


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh, you must have not had it full screen. She sounds like Morgan Freeman when it's full screen.


----------



## mbianka

smackdaddy said:


> Oh, you must have not had it full screen. She sounds like Morgan Freeman when it's full screen.


Hmm they are doing the Pateron thing before they even get a boat! At least others like Drake Paragon and Wicked Salty had more skin in the game before they asked for some green.


----------



## smackdaddy

I'm really amazed at the number of Young Punk sailors I'm coming across. Here's another...

https://www.youtube.com/user/ellordo1/videos


----------



## Sea&Stars

Makes me wonder is this indicative of a renaissance in sailing or that sailors have always wanted to share their passion and this is just a new venue. In the past the filter of publishers kept the number that actually got to share their stories down to a select few. With YouTube there is no filter, whoever wants to can start a channel and post a video. In most cases they will likely fade. 
Here's another couple that seemed to loose steam only to come roaring back recently:


----------



## mbianka

Here is another one. Young up and coming Litigation Lawyer decides she is not enjoying life. Shucks it all and decides to go sailing. Writes about it and has a Vlog learning Boat Maintenace 101 as they go:


----------



## Sea&Stars

Yea this is a healthy trend, check these two from Sweden. Love the boat too...


----------



## snaggletooth

smackdaddy said:


> Oh, you must have not had it full screen. She sounds like Morgan Freeman when it's full screen.


Didente help, sorrey.


----------



## gigamanx

Sea&Stars said:


> Yea this is a healthy trend, check these two from Sweden. Love the boat too...


You're not kidding... gorgeous boat. 1987 Beason 40 is what their website says.

https://ransailing.wordpress.com/om/


----------



## Sal Paradise

I did a search for this youtube channel and I dont think you have mentioned it. Very good and I am subscribed.


----------



## Sea&Stars

More youngsters from Sweden ...


----------



## smackdaddy

This one was hard to watch...


----------



## midwesterner

Ok, relating back to the original post nearly a year and 8 months ago, what are the current recommendations on rugged video equipment? There is now a GoPro 4 Silver, and I imagine there might be other options now, as well. What would people recommend for recording my summer sailing adventures?


----------



## neoxaero

The GoPro is still the king of the the "Action Sports Cams". There have been a few other players in the market but none have come close to the ruggedness or quality of the GoPro camera. The plethora of mounts and accessories it's a hard package to beat. Most of the people doing the vlogs are using GoPros in addition to a hand held camera for shots that a wide angle lens doesn't work for. I've looked in to the JVC line of ruggedized cameras that are supposed to be water/drop/dust proof. 

There are solid options available but it depends on your needs/desires. My wife and I are in the process of getting our financial house in order before we buy our boat next year. A friend of mine is a CPYB so I've been taking advantage of that friendship to look at a _lot_ of boats that probably won't be on the market when we are ready to pull the trigger (unless I absolutely fall in love with something). I've been filming all of the boats we've looked at and am saving the footage for the Youtube channel I've registered. 

The reality is that a lot of people are making good money by providing entertainment for other people. One of the (semi) recent services to spring up is Twitch.TV. People are getting paid to play video games while other people watch them play. You obviously have to have the right personality and provide and entertaining experience for the viewers but the ones doing it are making a good living. 
A friend of mine does "Moto Vlogs" where he basically rides around on his motorcycle and acts like a fool. Wheelies, random offroading, riding on sidewalks etc.... It's his full time job and he makes more money per year than I do by a good stretch. Between Youtube ad revenue and Paetron he's pulling in a solid 80k+/yr. Not a bad deal considering he just rides around on his motorcycle 2-3 days a week and edits videos for a couple of other days.


----------



## RooDog

midwesterner said:


> Ok, relating back to the original post nearly a year and 8 months ago, what are the current recommendations on rugged video equipment? There is now a GoPro 4 Silver, and I imagine there might be other options now, as well. What would people recommend for recording my summer sailing adventures?


Check out cameras from Contour and Drift These are the best available GoPro alternatives and are in a great value for the money.


----------



## smackdaddy

This is one of my favorite Young Punk couples. Their videos are always extremely well-done.

What camera is this guy using for his aerials? Amazing quality...


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another duo of punks livin' the life!!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKzcVZX2xM_kiOFWuGg-Phw/videos


----------



## Paul-Arr

neoxaero said:


> ...My wife and I are in the process of getting our financial house in order before we buy our boat next year. A friend of mine is a CPYB so I've been taking advantage of that friendship to look at a _lot_ of boats that probably won't be on the market when we are ready to pull the trigger (unless I absolutely fall in love with something). I've been filming all of the boats we've looked at and am saving the footage for the Youtube channel I've registered...


Can't PM until I have a higher post count ... It seems like my wife and I are in similar situation. Would love to connect to your YouTube channel and maybe even your CPYB friend eventually. Are you going to the September yacht show in Kemah?

- Young Punk c/o 2018/2019


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## smackdaddy

The old farts around here will cringe at this one. But if you watch enough of the episodes you'll see what I mean.

These Young Punks are definitely not following the norms, but I SO admire their drive and dream. That's rocket fuel. Go the Amateurs!


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## RTB

Not sure if these guys have been mentioned, but plenty of nice camera work on their vids -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTDSzyDu3A#t=78.6467187


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## colemj

The problem with young punks is that they are always so energetic and attractive and unjaded.

Damn them. Damn them all.

Mark


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## robert sailor

It's too bad that there are fewer young punks out here. Back in the day the game was played with young punks leading the charge with a few older couples mixed in. Now it's become a retirement lifestyle rather than an adventure. Young punks always have a very fresh view of the world, boundless energy and some old fashion risk taking. It would be nice to see more younger people cruising but now unfortunately it's down to just a few and the rest of the sailors are middle age or old fats.


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## amwbox

robert sailor said:


> It's too bad that there are fewer young punks out here. Back in the day the game was played with young punks leading the charge with a few older couples mixed in. Now it's become a retirement lifestyle rather than an adventure. Young punks always have a very fresh view of the world, boundless energy and some old fashion risk taking. It would be nice to see more younger people cruising but now unfortunately it's down to just a few and the rest of the sailors are middle age or old fats.


Buried under student debt. Much harder to get going in life than it used to be.


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## Sailingloser

Reply to Smackdaddy regarding SV Zero on page 40! Man this forum has more rules than a junior high dance! 
Yep! Cool young punks! Restored a wooden 1974 build Hudson Force 50! Christian also sailed her solo from Hawaii to Alaska and spent 20 plus days solo sailing her around Alaska and even docking her on an iceberg that recently fell of one of the glaciers! Not to bad for a young punk! 
he wanted to stay longer but US customs revolked his Visa and made him leave the US within 30 days. Like he wanted to sail a wooden boat in Alaska during the winter. Canada treated him much more kindly when he arrived!


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## Sailingloser

Sea&Stars - i hope you got to watch more recent videos of RAN Sailing. Yes the custom "one-off" aluminum Beason 40 is sweet! I'd suggest watching the meet the crew video and the 3 part mini series of Johan's nearly 2 year sailing trip in 2006 from Sweden to Antarctica and back in 2006. Amazing footage of sailing from Sweden, down south america, to Antarctica and taking the Shackleton passage to South Georgia Island back to Brazil and then Sweden!

DAMN! THOSE YOUNG PUNK SAILORS that can sail a small fiberglass sailboat with no radar from Sweden, to Cape Horn and then spend 4 plus months sailing from Cape Horn to Antartica, Saint George Island and then north to Brazil without any support and only seeing 1 other boat and then back to Sweden! Crazy thing is the closest to death they came was on the way home when they were almost beaten to death in Brazil. Just watching and listening to when they hit a massive storm down south while trying to head north with the drogue will give you goose bumps!


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## amwbox

Sailingloser said:


> Reply to Smackdaddy regarding SV Zero on page 40! Man this forum has more rules than a junior high dance!
> Yep! Cool young punks! Restored a wooden 1974 build Hudson Force 50! Christian also sailed her solo from Hawaii to Alaska and spent 20 plus days solo sailing her around Alaska and even docking her on an iceberg that recently fell of one of the glaciers! Not to bad for a young punk!
> he wanted to stay longer but US customs revolked his Visa and made him leave the US within 30 days. Like he wanted to sail a wooden boat in Alaska during the winter. Canada treated him much more kindly when he arrived!


Pretty sure his visa had actually expired. He thought that the time on it didn't count when he was on passage in international waters, apparently? But visas have dates on them. So...the confusion is?

That said, he claims to have been treated badly by the customs and immigration guys, and given their fanaticism over imaginary threats (This is _ALASKA_, you self important morons! And this guy is German! Why would he want to sneak into a ******* portion of the US if he could live somewhere like Germany?!) I don't doubt it. An expired visa was probably the most interesting thing they'd seen in years.

Also, that Hudson is fiberglass.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze

Personally I miss the conversation Smack brought here, but there are a lot of tender souls who do not like to expose their core beliefs or do not feel confident enough in themselves to post cogent arguments to support their beliefs. It makes me think that the line from the song "Deteriorata" made by the Second City TV guys in the early 70's was just ahead of its time. It stated "A walk through the ocean of most men's souls would scarcely get your feet wet" and I believe that is an accurate description of a majority of the world's population today. Pretty sad.


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## smackdaddy

Sailingloser said:


> Reply to Smackdaddy regarding SV Zero on page 40! Man this forum has more rules than a junior high dance!
> Yep! Cool young punks! Restored a wooden 1974 build Hudson Force 50! Christian also sailed her solo from Hawaii to Alaska and spent 20 plus days solo sailing her around Alaska and even docking her on an iceberg that recently fell of one of the glaciers! Not to bad for a young punk!
> he wanted to stay longer but US customs revolked his Visa and made him leave the US within 30 days. Like he wanted to sail a wooden boat in Alaska during the winter. Canada treated him much more kindly when he arrived!


Yeah I've been following Christian on Zero for a long time. Seriously one of the legendary Young Punks. And he seems like a great, great guy.

Great video series.


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## nolatom

Hey, Smack, good to hear from you.


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## smackdaddy

Here's a great one from the Delos crew interviewing some Young Punks from San Francisco.

Bob Perry gets a mention!






Boyah!


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## TakeFive

I've really gotten to like these two. Very down to earth and resourceful. Watch a few episodes and see if they grow on you.






It looks like they already have a year of video "in the can" so I would expect them to be selective enough for some interesting material. This genre has become very over-saturated, so it will be interesting to see how well they compete with the T&A stuff. IMO she is really gorgeous, but seems to have too much self-respect to go around flaunting herself like those other vloggers. And she seems to be a very equal participant in all the boat projects that they are doing. That has me rooting for them.


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## mbianka

TakeFive said:


> I've really gotten to like these two. Very down to earth and resourceful. Watch a few episodes and see if they grow on you.
> 
> It looks like they already have a year of video "in the can" so I would expect them to be selective enough for some interesting material. This genre has become very over-saturated, so it will be interesting to see how well they compete with the T&A stuff. IMO she is really gorgeous, but seems to have too much self-respect to go around flaunting herself like those other vloggers. And she seems to be a very equal participant in all the boat projects that they are doing. That has me rooting for them.


Look like a nice couple. But, I don't think I'll follow them full time. I've already seen enough of this is us finding our boat videos already. Their pets are a little irritating to me too. From the title of the VLog it sounds as if those dogs are the ones who came up with this idea of cruising the world. Expect to see a lot of "cute" cutaways of the pooches sleeping on cushions and life jackets. Then I'll be thinking about them taking the mutts to shore to Sh!t on someone elses land or beach maybe disturbing the local wildlife in the process. It's a pet peeve of mine. Pun intended!  Traveling the world on a sailboat is great but, take only pictures and leave the pets behind to have minimal impact.


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## sailforlife

smackdaddy said:


> Great day at the office, actually! I just made tens of thousands today! But who cares?
> 
> Let's just call it - reality.
> 
> When the ongoing conversation is continually about paper charts and wooden boats...I get very bored. _Very._
> 
> I'm much more interested in sailing in 2015+. Not 1750. I guess it's just the way I roll.
> 
> Any advice on the HDcam?


10S OF THOUSANDS TODAY! **** what do you do I'm broke need all the advice I can get! :ship-captain::ship-captain:


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## TakeFive

mbianka said:


> Look like a nice couple. But, I don't think I'll follow them full time. I've already seen enough of this is us finding our boat videos already. Their pets are a little irritating to me too. From the title of the VLog it sounds as if those dogs are the ones who came up with this idea of cruising the world. Expect to see a lot of "cute" cutaways of the pooches sleeping on cushions and life jackets. Then I'll be thinking about them taking the mutts to shore to Sh!t on someone elses land or beach maybe disturbing the local wildlife in the process. It's a pet peeve of mine. Pun intended!  Traveling the world on a sailboat is great but, take only pictures and leave the pets behind to have minimal impact.


I haven't had time to follow anyone full time for the last year or so. It's always hit-and-miss for me these days. We have a new puppy, so I was looking forward to seeing how they deal with that in a way that's friendly to the locals and the environment. Also wondering how they'll deal with checking into other countries with pets. They may be in for unpleasant surprises. But they seem very smart and earnest, not the type that I'd expect to leave crap behind. Whatever waste the pets put out will be a tiny fraction of what they generate, and I would expect it will end up in the same holding tank, and dumped in the same pump-out station or ocean. Their footprint isn't increased much by the accompanying paw prints (puns intended).


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## mbianka

TakeFive said:


> I haven't had time to follow anyone full time for the last year or so. It's always hit-and-miss for me these days. We have a new puppy, so I was looking forward to seeing how they deal with that in a way that's friendly to the locals and the environment. Also wondering how they'll deal with checking into other countries with pets. They may be in for unpleasant surprises. But they seem very smart and earnest, not the type that I'd expect to leave crap behind. Whatever waste the pets put out will be a tiny fraction of what they generate, and I would expect it will end up in the same holding tank, and dumped in the same pump-out station or ocean. Their footprint isn't increased much by the accompanying paw prints (puns intended).


Don't get me wrong I really do like dogs and cats. I just would never have one as for me they start to limit some of the serendipity of life. Such as last minute travel ideas. On a boat they can be more problematic for some of the reasons you mentioned. Plus the need to carry extra provisions for them. My gal will not do a charter on a boat with pets. They can be tripping hazards and the chance of lying down in a flea infested bunk is not too enticing. Though my real bugaboo was one night while enjoying the evening solitude of the harbor a solo sailor dropped anchor near me. He quickly deployed his dingy and headed into town to find a bar or two. I was stuck listening to his dog alternately bark and wail the rest of the evening until he returned.:frown


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## TakeFive

mbianka said:


> Don't get me wrong I really do like dogs and cats. I just would never have one as for me they start to limit some of the serendipity of life. Such as last minute travel ideas. On a boat they can be more problematic for some of the reasons you mentioned. Plus the need to carry extra provisions for them...


I agree fully. Our dog died two years ago, and we brought her along for a few daysails, but she was NOT a boat dog (partly because boating came too late in life for her). When she passed away we were very sad, but also ready to be dog-free for awhile so we could have more freedom on the boat. My daughter overruled that a couple months ago and went and got a puppy. I'm already seeing scenarios where our boating (and traveling) freedom is hindered next season, and perhaps for years to come. I'm not at all sure that she can handle the dog all by herself for a whole week while we're out sailing. This is not what I signed up for, and really hoping that the over-energetic puppy phase ends before too long. I'm happy to help my daughter by taking the dog for a weekend here and there, so long as he's well trained to behave on the boat.


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