# Running a portable generator at an angle of heel



## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

After this disaster my family has decided to pool for a small portable generator, 1000w or so. We are choosing between the Honda 1000 and the Yamaha 1000, both selling for about $800 right now online. There are cheaper portable inverter type units, even one by Hyundai, but I believe in buying good quality that will last a long time and these are two brands I trust. I imagine finding parts for the honda in the long term will be easier, but the yamaha is slightly more fuel efficient at low loads.










*Does anyone have experience with operating either of these generators at an angle of heel?* I figure if we buy one it might as well double as a battery charger when I go out cruising, maybe even use it to run the tiny A/C fridge I have installed on my boat when on the hook.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

No way

First of all the Honda 100 is not worth it and wont run much. The 2000 is much better

Running the genrator while sailing would be dangerous IMHO. Gas, burns. exhaust just to name a few things and totally unecessary.

I have a Honda eu2000


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Where do you put your generator when running at anchor to make sure the exhaust doesn't get into the cabin?


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

As an aside, Honda and Yamaha have very different parts philosophies, or at least they did in their powersports divisions a few years ago. 

Honda parts are more expensive but that allows them to keep producing them for much longer after they become obsolete. Yamaha parts are less expensive but they will stop stocking them once demand falls beyond a certain point. 

Which approach is better depends on your perspective.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

I have a 2200 Honda powered inverter genny and only use it while on the hook or tied up in a slip. Can't use the shore power you have here as my stuff runns on 240v AC single phase. I would not use it while sailing as the oil in the sump would run to one side and leave the thing without lubrication. If you want a porta genny that you can use on the tilt, get a two stroke.

ATB

Michael


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## Cbarg (Aug 29, 2006)

I have a honda 2000eui that I use at anchor and offshore to charge battery's when the sailing is good on the overnight run's. The boat is center cockpit with the gen mounted and secured on the aft deck. It's been used for the last 6 years with no problem, better than running the big engine just to keep the battery's up.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Id suggest the Honda eu2000 for its history or reliability over any other offering.

Do careful price comparisons vs. multitudinous 'dealers', including internet sources, as the prices (and taxes, plus shipping) will make a BIG difference. 
A 2000w generator will 'run' most household 'load' such as heater, lighting, refrigerator .... but not all at the same time because of the 'starting torque' requirements of 'motors'. This leaves only well pumps and other 220v components/requirements not able to be supplied. 
The 1000w, simply doesnt have enough 'umpf' and the 2000w will be mostly 'above automatic idle'. You really dont want to be running such equipment 'flat out', as this 'kills them quick'.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Just to pile on:

Spend the extra green on the 2 kw Honda. We've got the eu200, and haven't regretted the purchase.

As for location, most of the time we run it hanging from one of our dinghy davits. That gets it out of the way, and I can lower it so that the exhaust is below our caprail (we've got about 5' of freeboard.) That takes care of the majority of the CO threat, and also lowers the (already) low running noise to an almost ignorable level.


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## mitchbrown (Jan 21, 2009)

I have an EU1000 and my dock neighbor has 2000. the 1000 is an excelent unit as well as is the 2000 the 1000 is much quiter than the 2000, probably half as much noise. It is much lighter and smaller and that may be an issue if you need to stow it onboard. Mine fits nicely in a lazeret. The one thing you should know about the inverter generators is they split the voltage between the neutral and hot wire so depending on what you plan to run you may need to modify the output. I can tell you how if you are interested.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

The 1000 weighs 27 lbs, and is small enough to pull in and out of my cockpit lazarettes easily (small 25' boat). The 2000 weighs double that, and must be bigger too. Doesn't cost much more though...

What can't I run with the 1000? Boat wise, I only really need to charge the batteries and possibly run the fridge, though even that I prob wouldn't bother with. I could even probably run a small 5000 but ac unit no?

House wise, the 1000 can power a fridge and some cfl lights couldn't it? Is it really that incapable?

Is 2000 watts really worth hauling all that extra weight and bulk?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Peter,

Overall, a 1000 would probably do what you want. If you want an AC unit of some sort to work, you would generally speaking, need at least a 2000W unit to run AC.

You could also get a 2000, 3000+ would be better, and us at your home duing outages too. I did that with a EB3500 I bought years ago. Went that big to power a land yacht, also my home. A double usage use in my case. So just as well to go bigger than smaller. The inverter gensets were not as in vogue as today.

Running one on an angle....depends upon "IF" the motor has a true oil pump. Along with how much oil and angle as to if the pump will pickup and mover the oil around the motor. If it is more of a splash circulating motor, ala older briggs motors. just about any angle will make it such that oil is not getting splashed thru out the motor. 

You could attempt at making a gimble, similar to what your stove should have if you really needed to use something like this to charge batteries etc. You might also figure out how much power the charger needs too. 1000W may not be enough to charger your house bank in a reasonable amount of time too. 

At the end of the day, best to try and figure out how much power you need, give yourself 25-30% more, and get that sized unit. I can not even remember if a hair dryer or two can run on 1000W, I believe it can, so that would be bare bones minimum frankly. 

marty


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with Marty about the bigger is better in some ways. We acheived that by having two Honda eu2000 which you can run in paralell if we needsed something for the house. The One eu2000 is more than enough for our needs on the boat. We atually rarely use it with our type of sailing so far. Weekend sailing or the occasion one month sailing trip each summer. I primarily got it for cruising or small jobs aorund the house, and for the second one because of the frequent power outages in Maryland.

The key for the weekend sailor at a slip is a big enough battery bank as well as charging system. For the person on a mooring some of its similar, but i can see where someone might use a generator to charge also. Be mindfull however that the size of your bank and the way you charge it will still facxtor in here. Without passive charging getting past the 85% range may not be cost effective with engines/ generator.

Peter, how exactly do you plan on ccharing your batteries with the generator,,,direct or througha 3 stage charger. What is the capacity of your bank? what type of batteries?

Figuring energy systems on your boat piecemeal is not the best approach. You should have an overall plan even though you cant afford to institute it all at once because of cost. It will save you dollars in the long run.

Lastley if this is for your Hunter 25 I would caution you as others here have as to the dangers of CO2 and also the hazzard of carrying gasoline on board in compartments not made for hazzardous gases. Many including us use this type of generator very carefully away from our boats so we dont siphon CO2 into the vessel from either the hatches, or the effect of our dodgers creating a small pressure difference behibd the boat thus sucking the fumes back into our cabins through the cockpit. The gasoline danger is obvious. It is highly combustable and its fumes are usually what cause the problems. Most store it in either airtight compartments with drains like propane isoltaed from the rest of the boat or in our dinghys behind the boat. Storing the generator simply in a lzzarette could lead to a dangerous situatuion.

dave 
Dave


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I would really recommend the 2000 over the 1. I have both sizes, both yamaha, and frankly while the 1kw is nice, it has a hard time running many house appliances, it works a treat for the boat though. The 2kw does a much better job running standard house loads.

As an example, during our hurricane this year I had the 1kw (my brother has the 2). It was almost enough power to start a small window unit, but I wound up having to soft start the compressor by disconnecting the fan while the AC spun up. The 1 would also only run one appliance at a time (maybe some cfl lights too). 

On the 2kw I can start the window unit easily, and it can run either the TV or the fridge at the same time. The extra power really is handy.

As far as reliability. I have over 1,000 hours on the 1kw, and about 300 on the 2. Other than oil changes, and filter changes I have never had to do any maintenance in either of them. I actually got the 1 as a throw away, figuring it would be toast onboard in a year, but it's now 4 years old and running like a top.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While I don't use it on the boat, I have a Honda 1000 unit and find it incredibly useful. It is so quiet, that you can literally have it running between you and someone you are talking to without raising your voices. Seriously.

Bigger units are heavier and louder. You just have to size it for whatever you plan to use it for. The 1000w unit quiet handily ran the sump pump and refrigerator simultaneously after Sandy came through.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> I agree with Marty about the bigger is better in some ways. We acheived that by having two Honda eu2000 which you can run in paralell if we needsed something for the house. The One eu2000 is more than enough for our needs on the boat. We atually rarely use it with our type of sailing so far. Weekend sailing or the occasion one month sailing trip each summer. I primarily got it for cruising or small jobs aorund the house, and for the second one because of the frequent power outages in Maryland.
> 
> The key for the weekend sailor at a slip is a big enough battery bank as well as charging system. For the person on a mooring some of its similar, but i can see where someone might use a generator to charge also. Be mindfull however that the size of your bank and the way you charge it will still facxtor in here. Without passive charging getting past the 85% range may not be cost effective with engines/ generator.
> 
> ...


Dave I never thought of gas storage as a potential problem thanks for the heads up. My lazarettes are partially blocked off from the cabin, but nothing like airtight at all. I will smell gas in the cabin if I fill up my gas tank and spill some on the top of the tank. However it looks like hunter purpose built a shelf in the aft lazarette for the gas tank for the ob...

Realistically, how easily portable are the 2000 w units, and are they a practicable size for my small boat?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Peter,

Not sure if one can get a retro-fit kit, you may want to look into making the genset you do get an LP useage. You do lose some power using LP, I do not recall the amount, for discussion purposes, I am recalling around 10%, so the 2000s unit would produce around 1800w. 

A LOT of folks use the 2000w with land yachts, then link together, as at around 50-60 lbs iirc are easier to move than a single 3-4K unit in the low 100 lbs range. Yeah a 1000 at 25-30 lbs is easier yet........again, it depends upon how much power you need! Not sure if the 1K unit will tie together like the 2K units will to produce ~4Kw of power. If 50-60 lbs is too much for you to lift, but you need say 1500w of power at your max useage, then 2 -1K units tied together may be an option if you can do that.

If it were me, I would really try to find an lp operated genset, as at least then, while not CO free, compared to gas, very CO free, way less threat from fumes etc. I am sure there is an additional 200-500 cost.......but worth it imho!

Marty


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Having gas on board always increases danger of fire. Unfortunately, there seems to be no diesel as handy as those little Honda generators. I would love to have a small, secondary, fixed diesel generator but have never seen one that was not too heavy and large to be practical on a 35' boat. I would think Honda could answer the OP's question about running at an angle. It's a good question.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Be careful. Read this:

http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf

Carbon dioxide is heavier than hair and even if the generator is outside the CD can go inside the boat. I have been there and I can tell you that you don't fell a thing, you just lose your conscious and then die. That is why there is so many people that die with Carbon Dioxide.

Regards

Paulo


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> I will smell gas in the cabin if I fill up my gas tank and spill some on the top of the tank. However it looks like hunter purpose built a shelf in the aft lazarette for the gas tank for the ob...


Not a good thing. When that gas you spilled evaporates it goes where? If the lazzaette is not sealed and does not vent overboard, please dont use it. Thoise fumes may make there way to you biilge/ engine compartment/ cabin and a spark may set them off. Look at gasoline storage just like you would propane. Not an expert, but is gasoline may actually be more explosive. I am sure someone her will let us know?

Its the fumes from the gas which are explosive. Thats why older boats like my Islander 28 which had an atomic 4 had a blower which I ran for 2 minutes before starting it.

The eu2000 is not much larger than the 1000. It is light, compact and eeirely quiet and very efficient. 46 lbs

Honda EU1000iA Generator (1000W) - Steadypower.com

Honda EU2000iA Companion Generator (2000W) - Steadypower.com


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

smurphny said:


> Having gas on board always increases danger of fire. Unfortunately, there seems to be no diesel as handy as those little Honda generators. I would love to have a small, secondary, fixed diesel generator but have never seen one that was not too heavy and large to be practical on a 35' boat. I would think Honda could answer the OP's question about running at an angle. It's a good question.


I had the same problem and for someone that stays 3 months cruising and only goes to marinas four or five times during that time, electrical energy is really a problem.

After looking at all generators that are in the market I decided for upgrading the battery pack and improve the potential to create energy with an alternator. I guess that if you don't use AC you don't need one.

I did not went for a marine generator because they are more expensive (not much) than maximizing the system you have but most of all because it has an expensive maintenance and makes more noise than the boat engine (I am talking about the small ones, with one cylinder).

Regards

Paulo


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

When comparing generators and figuring whether it will do what is required, keep in mind that the advertised wattage is PEAK wattage not running wattage. The Honda 1000's running wattage is 900 and the 2000, strangely enough, has a running output of 1600 watts The 12v output is nowhere near double between the 1000 and 2000. Weird.
Here's a comparison:

http://powerequipment.honda.ca/compare/generators/eu1000ic


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## waterwks4me (Jan 16, 2010)

Get online and look up the Honda or Yamaha generators. I got my Honda 2000i for $830 with free shipping offered at the time. Well worth going up to the larger wattage. At anchor I run mine on the stern perch seat. Fits perfectly and is out of the way of the cockpit.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

bljones said:


> When comparing generators and figuring whether it will do what is required, keep in mind that the advertised wattage is PEAK wattage not running wattage. The Honda 1000's running wattage is 900 and the 2000, strangely enough, has a running output of 1600 watts The 12v output is nowhere near double between the 1000 and 2000. Weird.
> Here's a comparison:
> 
> http://powerequipment.honda.ca/compare/generators/eu1000ic


Cool site BL, interesting too that the dimensions of the 2000w unit are only about an inch larger on all sides, less of a difference than I would have thought. However 46 pounds, plus the weight of 4 gallons of gas, makes it quite a bit heavier...


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

waterwks4me said:


> Get online and look up the Honda or Yamaha generators. I got my Honda 2000i for $830 with free shipping offered at the time. Well worth going up to the larger wattage. At anchor I run mine on the stern perch seat. Fits perfectly and is out of the way of the cockpit.


Good idea, wish my boat had those they always look so comfy on other boats...

How practical is it to haul the 2000w unit in and out of storage? Is it too heavy to be practical in a way?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

peterchech said:


> Cool site BL, interesting too that the dimensions of the 2000w unit are only about an inch larger on all sides, less of a difference than I would have thought. However 46 pounds, plus the weight of 4 gallons of gas, makes it quite a bit heavier...


Yeah, the weight is an issue. If iwas going to buy a generator, I think rather than buying a 2000, I'd buy 2 1000s that can be slaved together.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

PCP said:


> I had the same problem and for someone that stays 3 months cruising and only goes to marinas four or five times during that time, electrical energy is really a problem.
> 
> After looking at all generators that are in the market I decided for upgrading the battery pack and improve the potential to create energy with an alternator. I guess that if you don't use AC you don't need one.
> 
> ...


I looked into whether I could install a diesel generator somewhere and did find one or two that could be theoretically shoehorned in but they would have taken up too much space. I've gone to all solar panels (now have 200+watts) and if I have to run the engine once in a while, well so be it. I put in a large amperage alternator and a very low wattage refrig. system (smallest self-pumping Isotherm). I just don't like gasoline and row the dink rather than carting around gas cans and motors/dealing with registrations, etc.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Yeah, the weight is an issue. If iwas going to buy a generator, I think rather than buying a 2000, I'd buy 2 1000s that can be slaved together.


Not sure I would do that. 58 lbs vs 46, plus the footprint size is well over 1.5 times the single eu2000. Filling two generators doubles the spill possiblilites. And the kicker....the cost of two 1000 is $400 at least more than 1 eu2000.

The 42 lbs is really small and very menuverable and the wieght is really not much. Plenty of power also.

Dave


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Gander Mountain has the Honda EU2000i on sale for $999. So I think it would be worth the the extra money. I don't think there is much difference in size

EU2000i:
• Dimensions: 20.1"L x 11.4"W x 16.7"H
• Noise Level: 59 dB @ rated load, 53dB @ 1/4 load
• Dry Weight: 46.3 lbs.

EU1000i:
Dimensions: 17.7"L x 9.4"W x 15.0"H
• Noise Level: 59 dB @ rated load, 53dB @ 1/4 load
• Dry Weight: 29 lbs.


I wonder if the larger one would not charge the batteries quicker thus saving on fuel and noise. I also have heard of people having issues with the generators and some battery chargers. I believe the ones I have read about having issues are the older Xantrex, but I don't remember the models.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Peter, if you have a DC fridge, be very careful about powering it from one of these small gensets. The Honda expressly warns buyers that the 12vdc power is for battery charging only, it should not be used for electronics. Somewhere on the web, there are oscilloscope photos of the "dc" power output and it is nasty, the kind of thing that drives electronics mad. For battery charging, it is perfectly fine. For electronics--nuh-uh. Same thing applies to a lot of gensets, you'd want to use the AC power and run it through an inverter/charger. That's simply because they were designed as AC gensets with less expensive DC charing ability, rather than designed for clean DC power.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I hook mine into the shore power with an adaptor and use my three stage battery charger and it doesnt affect instruments or the dc fridge that way. Wd lower our dinghy and put in the dinghy let the painter out some and put it to the port or starboard side at the stern so ts directly behind the dodger and the CO wont get sucked in the cabin. Also we have a dedicated CO monitor on board.

If you were going to use an air con at anchor you would have to purchase a special load switch I beleive because of the start up amp o the air con. It can keep it running though as my friend uses it for that.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"and it doesnt affect instruments or the "
Proving what? Only that you can abuse electronics for a very long time without noticing any damage. However, they will take damage. Old studies (1970's) from the USAF indicate that discrete electronics, when properly chosen and used in properly engineered circuits, have a life expectancy of 100 years. ICs can last a thousand years, at which point the circuits in them electroplate themselves out of contact. And we pretty much all throw spikes and surges at all of our electronics regularly, and they keep on running.
But in the long run? It is still "dirty" power, and may be shortening the life or impacting the performance. From the laymen's point of view, that's impossible to tell. I trust the folks who make it, and the techs that have torn into it, when they tell me "this stuff is bad for your electronics". Of course I'm one of those curmudgeons who really doesn't WANT a new cell phone or TV or whatever every two years anyhow, I just want to dance with the one that brung me.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A bit of a hijack,

A couple of years back, I was in OshKosh at the Airventure fly-in. (largest fly-in general aviation show in the world, I believe. 10,000 planes fly in and hundreds of thousands of visitors)

The guy tied down next to us runs a hose from his wing fuel sump to the gas tank on his Honda generator and the thing runs 24/7 for a week. Yes, it was a bit scary.


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## waterwks4me (Jan 16, 2010)

peterchech said:


> Cool site BL, interesting too that the dimensions of the 2000w unit are only about an inch larger on all sides, less of a difference than I would have thought. However 46 pounds, plus the weight of 4 gallons of gas, makes it quite a bit heavier...


Peter, I believe the fuel measurement is in liters not gallons so that would be alot less fuel to add to the overall weight.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

hellosailor,

Since I am running the gen to the shorepower...which goes then to the AC side of my boat and the ac outlets/ breakers. One of the breakers allows mew to operate a mastervolt 3 step charger which then charges the batteries.

All my electronics and refrigeration are on the d/c side. running from the batteries. How can there be an effect? I can understamd a spike from the gen to anything I have plugged into the ac side, but how does it get through to the dc side?

Dave


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

My thinking behind two 1000 watt gennies is improved 12 volt output when linked over a 2k genny, redundancy and running flexibility- you only run what you need when you need it. Most times you'll only need to run a sub 1000 watt load, so why haul out a bigger, higher consumption generator than you need? as far as storage, build a couple of shelves into the usually underutilized cockpit lockers and stack 'em. It also gives one the ability to loan a generator if necessary.


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## Tanley (Aug 20, 2009)

We just went through the same decision process as you in preparation for Sandy. Bought it for the house but figured we can use it on the boat too. 

Went with the 2000. Side by side there's hardly a difference in footprint or noise between the 2. The 2000 is easily carried around with one hand (think of a really small carry on suit case). It's so portable that I find it more convenient to use around the house than running extension cords for outside projects. Already brought it to the yard to work on the boat too. 

Keep in mind that the initial current draw on your home fridge's compressor may make the 1000 choke. Got ours locally for $900. Good luck with your decision.


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## mitchbrown (Jan 21, 2009)

you people that are using either the 1000 or 2000 to run your onboard battery charger should take a look at the output of your charger It is probably pretty low since the input voltage on the AC side is only 65 volts. As i said in an earlier post the honda generators split the voltage between the neutral and hot leads and a mod is required to make things right. Its a simlpe matter of bonding the ground and neutral wire.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

My main concern with the 2000 besides weight is regarding fuel consumption. I'm guessing it uses double the fuel (100 cc motor vs 48 cc), yet only provides ~60% more power (1600 watts versus 900). Fuel was pretty scarce those days after Sandy...


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Peter,

Both the 1 and 2 kw have an Econ mode that slows down the engine when they are lightly loaded. When running the same loads on them they pretty much burn the same amount of fuel. As I remember it was around 5 gallons in 24 hours with the one, and close enough with the two that I couldn't tell the difference.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

Tanley said:


> The 2000 is easily carried around with one hand (think of a really small carry on suit case). It's so portable that I find it more convenient to use around the house than running extension cords for outside projects. Already brought it to the yard to work on the boat too.


Thanks for the firsthand experience Tanley! So maybe it's not as much a PITA as I had thought then, though it's a big difference between reaching into a lazarette and simply going into your garage...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Rather surprising no one has posed the question so far, so I'll give it a shot...

Why on earth would one want to completely spoil the exquisite pleasure of sailing a 25-footer in sufficient breeze to put her on a heel, by running one of those infernal things? (grin)

I forget, what sort of power do you have aboard your boat? Inboard, or outboard? The 1000 is actually a pretty inefficient way to charge batteries, after all...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Rather surprising no one has posed the question so far, so I'll give it a shot...
> 
> Why on earth would one want to completely spoil the exquisite pleasure of sailing a 25-footer in sufficient breeze to put her on a heel, by running one of those infernal things? (grin)
> 
> I forget, what sort of power do you have aboard your boat? Inboard, or outboard? The 1000 is actually a pretty inefficient way to charge batteries, after all...


I agree that I would rather not have an engine running while sailing.

However, why is 1000w any less efficient way of running the 110v chargers than anything else? Has to be more efficient than my genset and any engine driven alternator.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

My KIPOR 2600 has been working great in really BAD conditions 24/7




























As we on going on are 11th day it already does not owe me a penny


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## swampcreek (Feb 14, 2010)

blt2ski said:


> Peter,
> 
> Not sure if one can get a retro-fit kit, you may want to look into making the genset you do get an LP useage. You do lose some power using LP, I do not recall the amount, for discussion purposes, I am recalling around 10%, so the 2000s unit would produce around 1800w.
> 
> ...


Here you go! Propane conversion...THE ONLY WAY TO GO with generators!! I converted my 5500W Home Depot special and it works GREAT! A 30lb. bottle seems to last forever. I converted my Dad's little Coleman 3500 anfter years of fooling around with bad gas, clogged lines etc. My sister has it now since my Dad moved into his apartment we builrt him. A Honda 2K is on our goodie list as well (Might look into that Yamaha3000) when we get it there will be NO question...I will convert it right away to propane.

A and C Kit List kits


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Swamp I think thats a great idea since we already have propane aboard.

Damn Tommays. My heart goes out to you.


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## THEFRENCHA (Jan 26, 2003)

Reading posts re: gasoline generators I always wonder why anyone would spend so much money for a Honda or whatever famous brand .Bought a 1kw at Harborfreight for $90.00 about 5 years ago and this thing works fine! Always start and no rust


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

hang in there tommays!!!


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

For starting a 16k BTU air conditioner with a Honda 2000, you will want to use what is called a "Soft Start" device. It's an electrical module that you wire between the generator's output and the air conditioner's input. Think of it as a valve that opens slowly to control the amount of current it allows to the air conditioner while the compressor is starting to turn.

When you start an electrical load, such as a motor, the starting current shoots up pretty high and then gradually ramps down to the full load current that the device requires to run. This is called "in-rush" current. As people above have already mentioned, the electrical name plate on your air conditioner lists how many Amps it draws. That is the current draw when it is up and running. The Amps will be a lot higher as it starts up.

What a Soft Start does is choke that startup current down and stretch it over a longer period of time, such that the inrush current is kept to a controllable level. The device will take a little longer to get up to full current, meaning the motor will turn a little slowly at first.

The ramp up time is rather quick- it's not really that noticeable. We are talking a few seconds here. But a Soft Start will keep you from tripping breakers or knocking the generator off line when you start the air conditioner.

A Soft Start is sized based on the voltage and rated current of the load device (your air conditioner) that will be connected to it.

Here's an example of a soft start: (you want a "single phase" unit)

Single Phase HVAC Compressor Soft Start
Carlo Gavazzi RSBS Series | Energy Efficient Products | Marshall Wolf Automation, Inc.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

We have power again as of 8:30 PM  Still gotta wait in gs lines BUT even thats getting a bit better 

I was merely inconvenienced while perhaps not Katrina level folks around here on the south shore have really lost EVERYTHING


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Glad you're back on Tom. My brother has his boat over in Bayshore. He came out of it with no damage but people I know in Stony Brook STILL have no power. What a screw up for LILCO!


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I agree that I would rather not have an engine running while sailing.
> 
> However, why is 1000w any less efficient way of running the 110v chargers than anything else? Has to be more efficient than my genset and any engine driven alternator.


Well, not sure what sort of power he has, or charging system, etc...

But, if memory serves, the 1000 only puts out something like 8 amps in the 12v direct charge mode...

If I try to use my 1000 using my 1000w inverter/battery charger which normally charges at around 50 amps max, I have to reconfigure the "Power Share" function to a much lower setting, down to around 20-25 amps for the Honda to be able to run it... So, at that point, my engine's alternator will offer a much higher charging rate...

As you say, the Honda 1000 is a great little tool, but I consider it to be little more than an emergency back-up, I just don't think it makes sense as a means to charge batteries on a cruising boat on a routine basis...

I'll admit, it has come in handy over the last 10 days or so... Not this morning, however, didn't seem necessary to run my refrigerator for awhile today - leaving the fridge open inside my house probably would have worked just as well... (grin)


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Damn JOn...looks like a Christmas shot...we got furries here abnd were spared


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Honda 1000 8 amp per hour
Honda 2000 13.3 amp per hour

Electramax alternator 80 amo. 60 amps per hour


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Honda 1000 8 amp per hour
> Honda 2000 13.3 amp per hour
> 
> Electramax alternator 80 amo. 60 amps per hour


Aren't those a little misleading, as one is at 12v and the other at 110v?

Amps x volts = watts


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I used to deliver this boat to Central America and back every year with this old guy who had a little honda " suit case" gen mounted on deck infront of his mast in a ply wood box. He needed it to make coffee with his electric perculator and make breakfast in his microwave. When the boat would heel too much to port, it would'nt run because of the oil censor cut off thing. We would have to run down wind to flatten the boat out so he could make coffee. One year he was proud becuase he figured out how to get that censor out and it would stop cutting off when the boat rolled. I alway's thought the set up was silly, but to each his own. My wife had a gen like that on her ranger 26 when we where dating. It was great at anchor, She kept it on the cockpit floor when useing it. On eco throttle you could'nt hear till you where right up next to the boat, we used it to watch movies. ( before every one had lap tops.) Never had a fume problem and gas is kept on most boats anyway's for outboards, so that was not an issue.


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

As I recall these Honda generators have an oil leveling sensor..tip to far and the engine will cut off. A safety feature if the generator inadvertently tips over..


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

honda 2000, but it wont run at an angle--while sailing, why do ye need a generator to run>?????

i was very disappointed in th 1000, so i traded it when i first bought it , for a 2000, and i still have that 2000, now, 10 yrs later. it still runs and still charges and is still quiet.....


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## propellanttech (Oct 20, 2012)

mitchbrown said:


> you people that are using either the 1000 or 2000 to run your onboard battery charger should take a look at the output of your charger It is probably pretty low since the input voltage on the AC side is only 65 volts. As i said in an earlier post the honda generators split the voltage between the neutral and hot leads and a mod is required to make things right. Its a simlpe matter of bonding the ground and neutral wire.


I would love to see a wiring diagram to this you speak. I'm planning to use a Honda 2000 and was going to wire it to the shore power connection.

You can PM me if you wish. I think I have enough posts to see it.

James L


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

I have a 2,000 watt unit and it carries most of the house if you start the refrig and freezer separately. IIRC, I think the operator's manual says that if the oil level gets low it will shut itself off, which it may do when heeling?

Paul T


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> I would love to see a wiring diagram to this you speak. I'm planning to use a Honda 2000 and was going to wire it to the shore power connection- propelllantech.


Simple solution

There are a number of different models of the Honda 2000. Some of them actually come with a 30 amp plu which you can just run your shore power cord in. We have the eu2000 which doen not so we have a simple 2 foot Marinco adaptor cord which runs from the 110 outlet on the genrator to the shorepower cord.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

propellanttech said:


> I would love to see a wiring diagram to this you speak. I'm planning to use a Honda 2000 and was going to wire it to the shore power connection.
> 
> You can PM me if you wish. I think I have enough posts to see it.
> 
> James L


Simple ; CHARLES 30 AMP TO 15 AMP 125 VOLT STRAIGHT ADAPTER YELLOW - A3015S - - CHARLES - TheNerds.net

shop around, they come cheaper.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I got mine at Bacons....cheapest place...


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## onestepcsy37 (Jan 13, 2008)

i think you should go with the honda 1000. i can't imagine any kind of big loads you would have on a hunter 25 with a small battery bank. if you truly need the additonal power the 2000 is not much more expensive but then where do you store it on a 25 foot boat?

we have a 37 foot cruiser with 550 amps of battery. i bought the 1000. it fits neatly in the lazarette (after i run it out of gas). it's big enough to run my 35 amp charger with power to spare - think i could easily run a 40 amp charger. at anchor for long periods we used to run it every other day for two hours. now with a solar panel it's every three days. i can also run power tools when i need them, which is almost never. 

on a small boat you need to think small.....


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> > Originally Posted by chef2sail
> > Honda 1000 8 amp per hour
> > Honda 2000 13.3 amp per hour
> >
> ...


I don't know, those all sound like 12V numbers, to me...



zeehag said:


> honda 2000, but it wont run at an angle--while sailing, why do ye need a generator to run>?????
> 
> i was very disappointed in th 1000, so i traded it when i first bought it , for a 2000, and i still have that 2000, now, 10 yrs later. it still runs and still charges and is still quiet.....


Funny, how the only people who seem to think these things are "quiet", or "virtually silent", are those that use them? Definitely, a 'not minding the smell of one's own farts' sort of deal, seems to me... (grin)

I passed thru the Great Bridge Lock last night, arriving at Atlantic Yacht Basin just before midnight... At the free dock before the GB Bridge, there was a catamaran with what appeared to be a Honda 2000 running on deck... Despite the ambient road traffic noise, and the sound of my own engine, I first heard that thing from a considerable distance off...

Despite all the plentiful breeze and solar available, I've become resigned to the fact that these things have infested the Bahamas... They're simply just another reason for my preference to get off the beaten track... But when I see them being run in places like Northeast Harbor on Mt. Desert, or Lake Sylvia in Lauderdale, I really have to wonder at the lack of consideration on display...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Honda 1000 8 amp per hour
Honda 2000 13.3 amp per hour"

Misleading? No more so than "knots per hour". When you see "amps per hour" that's an immediate tipoff that something has gang aglay. In both cases the "per hour" is simply wrong.

"...The Honda EU1000i has a maximum of 1000 watts/8.3 amps @ 120V. It is super quiet, 53-59 dBA"
" The EU2000i, lightweight generator which produces 2000 watts/16.7 amps @ 120V of maximum power. It is super quiet, 53-59 dbA"

I know people who have been clocked at 76db talking on the phone. Folks who refuse to believe they are shouting because they have signifcant hearing loss and somehow think that they have to shout to be heard because of it. Is 59dbA quiet, out on the water? Hellno. Quieter than many gensets? Could be.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

chef2sail said:


> Honda 1000 8 amp per hour
> Honda 2000 13.3 amp per hour


Chef,

I believe what you are referring to are the AC amp load capabilities for sustained use. Converted to DC you can get a heck of a lot more than 8 Ah's or 13.3Ah's out of a Honda 1000 or 2000.. There is a difference between saying "amps" and "ah's" or "amps per hour"..

The 1000 watt or (8.3A) and 2000 watts or (16.7A) are not continuous duty ratings for these generators. One of those "read the fine print" deals manufacturers get you with... For the EU1000 it's rated at 900W AC (7.5A) and for the EU2000 it is rated at 1600W AC (8.3A) continuous duty.. I know my EU2000 will shut down on over temp running 7.9A - 8.0A continuous so I suspect the 8.3A is a best case scenario +/-...



chef2sail said:


> Electramax alternator 80 amo. 60 amps per hour


The Electromaax is already rated in DC current and when hot your 80A unit can likely pump out 60A all day long. If you run it for an hour at 60A you have replaced 60Ah's to your bank. It is an 80A rated unit not 80Ah rated... I know, confusing......

Off an EU2000 you can run upwards of an 80A AC charger, depending upon how efficient it is. This would give you 80Ah's if you ran it for an hour but it wold be an 80A charger....

What ever you do don't use the DC output on these to try and charge batteries. They are as useless as tits on a bull... If you are going to run one of these, and create the sound pollution, you might as well maximize the DC charging by installing the largest AC powered battery charger the generator can handle.....


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Gottch Maine,

I wasnt splaining myself very well. When I use the eu2000 I have to charge I ws only see 8 amps my Victron ...when I ran it through my shorepower and used my Mastervolt carger I saw 60 amp charge on the Victron. Usually at 2700 rpm ogn the enhine I am seeing 60 amp in on thre Victorn when the battery banks are depleted past the 85% mark.

Do these values make sense? Are they OK?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

chef2sail said:


> Gottch Maine,
> 
> I wasnt splaining myself very well. When I use the eu2000 I have to charge I ws only see 8 amps my Victron ...when I ran it through my shorepower and used my Mastervolt carger I saw 60 amp charge on the Victron. Usually at 2700 rpm ogn the enhine I am seeing 60 amp in on thre Victorn when the battery banks are depleted past the 85% mark.
> 
> Do these values make sense? Are they OK?


Dave,

Are you running the Mastervolt battery charger off the Honda and only seeing 8A or are you using the generators 12V output to charge and seeng 8A?

Your Honda should easily drive your Mastervolt charger to it's full rated output..


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I connect the Honda via adaptor to the shorepower inlet on my boat. Mastervolt charger is connected to AC side of the Blue Sea Panel so yes I see 60 amp at bulk.

The 8 amp rating was from the Honda literature and must come from the generators 12 volt outlet which I rarely use at all.

dave


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> I connect the Honda via adaptor to the shorepower inlet on my boat. Mastervolt charger is connected to AC side of the Blue Sea Panel so yes I see 60 amp at bulk.
> 
> The 8 amp rating was from the Honda literature and must come from the generators 12 volt outlet which I rarely use at all.
> 
> dave


Chef,

The 8amp output of the Honda is at 110v, not 12v. Roughly speaking, it would be capable of 10 times the amps at 12v. amps x volts = watts.

Essentially, your battery charger is making this switch.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Chef,
> 
> The 8amp output of the Honda is at 110v, not 12v. Roughly speaking, it would be capable of 10 times the amps at 12v. amps x volts = watts.
> 
> Essentially, your battery charger is making this switch.


To the best of my recollection, on my 1000, the 8 amp figure refers to the 12v output through an accessory plug with clips that can be attached to a battery's terminals... But that voltage is only minimally above 12v - nothing close to the 14+ volts either my alternator or battery charger will put out, and completely unfiltered/unregulated... Seems only useful for "jump-starting" a dead battery, to me - that's my primary reason for having one aboard, at any rate...

That's why I suggested in my initial post -and why others like Maine Sail have concurred - that such generators are a very inefficient means of charging batteries, without the use of a separate 110v charger... The OP appears to have lost interest in this issue, however... (grin)


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

JonEisberg said:


> To the best of my recollection, on my 1000, the 8 amp figure refers to the 12v output through an accessory plug with clips that can be attached to a battery's terminals... But that voltage is only minimally above 12v - nothing close to the 14+ volts either my alternator or battery charger will put out, and completely unfiltered/unregulated... Seems only useful for "jump-starting" a dead battery, to me - that's my primary reason for having one aboard, at any rate...
> 
> That's why I suggested in my initial post -and why others like Maine Sail have concurred - that such generators are a very inefficient means of charging batteries, without the use of a separate 110v charger... The OP appears to have lost interest in this issue, however... (grin)


Both the EU1000 and the EU2000 have a 12V / 8A DC output. This output is utterly useless for charging compared to using the AC side of the generator.

It is far more efficient to use the EU series generators to power an on-board battery charger, unless of course your on-board charger is 10A.......


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