# best foul weather gear for the money?



## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

I've been putting off getting some new foulies for awhile now, but due to the admiral's "home cookin'" my displacement is greater than in the past. What would you recomend with all things considered; eg: durability, comfort, functionality, style, and of course price. Hey, we're in a recession here.


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Gill Clearance Warehouse*

Kind of depends what you want but you just missed the Gill warehouse sale near Atlanta last weekend. Its good gear, and the closeout prices were apparently really good. My Dad picked up a set of off-shore level foulies for around 200 bucks, and a bunch of other stuff. Looks like they have a clearance center on their site. Might try here.

Gill Marine Closeouts

I'm not affiliated with Gill in any way, but do like their gear.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks Bruce. I'll take a gander at it.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

If price is a concern, take a look at what the commercial fishermen wear. Most wear Grundens and there are a few other brands represented as well. You can get an entire set for ~$130 and it will last you many times what the fancy yachtie stuff will. In addition, you will stay a lot drier unless you are really exerting yourself like in racing (gore-tex has a nasty habit of breathing both ways whereas rubber is impermeable). It will also dry a lot quicker.

I believe there was another thread on here recently about foul weather gear that you might be able to get some info from if you search for it.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Thank's klem. I've had a set of oil skins before, that may be what I get again in the end. I haven't been able to believe the whole waterproof/breathable thing just yet. I have a columbia parka that's "waterproof", but only until it saturates. After that, it may as well be cotton.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

West Marine when its on sale has OK stuff

BUT you sweat and get wet OR it leaks and you get wet if your doing any level of work


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I'm a big fan of Henri Lloyd and haven't been dissapointed yet. 









Musto would be my next choice, and then Gill. Gills have a durability problem, but replace anything that leaks, great customer service. Only problem is that if you're racing for 4 days, you spend 3 days wet and cold, then get to mail back your foulies and wait for a replacement.

You need to ask yourself what kind of sailing you do, do you go out when they're forecasting heavy rain? Are you on a "wet" boat? Do you sail something that requires a lot of movement or do you sit behind the wheel most of the time? Do you sail in 30* weather, or only when its above 60* and sunny? I wouldn't opt for the commercial fisherman stuff unless you sail in someplace that is very cold.

Find out what type of sailing you do. Then pick out what features you want in your gear. Then decide what manufactures offer those features and buy what you need. I could tell you a brand name, but it comes down to what you want in your gear.


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Gore Tex*

The "sweat from the inside" or "wet from the outside" is always the rub. If its waterproof, it usually won't breath, and vice versa. The only truly waterproof AND Breathable fabric that I have used (sailing, skiing, and biking/hiking) is Gore Tex. There are some other similar fabrics out there Im sure, but Gore is still the gold standard.

Unfortunately, gear made from it still costs a small fortune. Depends on needs/budget.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Thank's for the suggestions. I'm kind of a tight fisted guy, so it's either going to be the oil skins, or a set of gore-tex insulated from a military town's pawn shop. If you were ever in, you know that Joseph is quick to pawn the stuff that just stays in his duffel.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Where could we browse some of that fisherman's gear referred to earlier in this thread, I'd like to check that out but have no idea what I'm really looking for.


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## sarafinadh (Jun 16, 2009)

pricy but beautifully designed and made.
Home - Helly Hansen.com


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

wind_magic said:


> Where could we browse some of that fisherman's gear referred to earlier in this thread, I'd like to check that out but have no idea what I'm really looking for.


Nevermind, I found that Grundens site. 

Check it out ...










Now that's some foul weather gear. 

.. and like 120$us, can't beat that.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sarafinadh said:


> pricy but beautifully designed and made.
> Home - Helly Hansen.com


Oh that's great Sarafinadh, ... it's between the stylish I'm just a girl in the world Helly Hansen Sarafinadh choice ...










and the ... Me sail boat! Me catch FISH! Grundens choice ...


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

If you are in the northeast, the easiest place to buy Grundens is Hamilton marine. There are different weights of the stuff. The lightest weight stuff doesn't keep you as dry so I choose the next step up and it works incredibly well. There is heavier duty stuff if you plan to go fishing though.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

I've been looking at a set of calcutta oil skins. They're like $130.00 US. for tops and bottoms. Has anyone had a problem with them before? Bte, I do like the Helly Hansen name. They make awesome gear, but I try to spend more time sailing than working, so they're a little steep for my tight little fist.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Do people actually sail in that rubberized fisherman's rain gear? They look pretty ungainly and uncomfortable. No Velcro at the cuffs? How do you keep the water out? No fabric at the collar? How do you keep from rubbing your neck raw? No pockets to store glasses, hats, survival radio, etc? To each his own, I guess. I wear my foulies 20+ days a year so comfort and mobility is pretty important to me. At over a hundred dollars, they aren't that cheap either. Do you also wear the orange horse collar type PFD to cut down on expenses too?

Note on foulie care: Rinsing them off with fresh water before the salt stains set in will keep them water repellant much longer. When they get really trashed, I'll soak them in the tub at home with woolite.



<O</O


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

They actualy aren't that bad. Wearing a hoodie or a fleece eleminates the rubbing problem, and the water stays out of the sleeves unless you have to raise your hand, but mine generaly are on the wheel and the sheets. As for pockets, I already have some sewn into my harness. And you actualy called me on the type one PFDs. I keep an inspection bag of em in the laz for getting boarded. Other than that, I generaly don't wear one. I do, however clip on to the jacklines when I'm singlehanding, or going forward when conditions warant. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a nice set of helly hansens or something, but it's only cold and rainy at the same time 5 or 10 days a year here, so I can't realy justify it to myself.


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## josrulz (Oct 15, 2006)

For whatever it's worth, Practical Sailor picked some of the Gill option(s) -- coastal sport, I believe, as a best buy. My wife has the Gill coastal sport for women, which we got her a few years ago. She really likes her foulies. I had Musto and liked it, and now have one of the Gill ocean options and they're very comfortable and dry.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Some of it depends, I'm sure, on what you call "foul weather" too. It's one thing to have to stop using the laptop in the cockpit because it is getting rain sprinkles on the screen and another thing entirely to be changing headsails with green water washing over you in a storm. Gortex is great for the light stuff, I use it camping, but if it is actually raining for a while Gortex isn't all its advertised to be, you will get wet. There's a lot to be said for a poncho when it is raining for a while.


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

I have a set of West Marine Explorer gear that is about 10 years old. Love it. Very comfortable breathable gear. I sailed mostly on San Francisco bay and offshore on wet boats (i.e. lots of spray). I would rate it as coastal gear but it is better than a lot of stuff that is rated as coastal. Relatively light weight that works great with fleece under it as it gets colder. Light rain has been fine. Actually it has never leaked but I have not tested it in pouring rain for long periods of time. I would not buy gear without trying it on, moving about and playing with all the pockets and Velcro. 

I will only buy gear now that is breathable and Gore Tex seems to be the best. The Musto stuff I have seen is very nice too and heavier duty. But ocean gear is not needed for coastal work.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

i use to be a climber, did volcanos in mexico and rainer, and a member of a couple of mountain search and rescue teams - i had an rei shell for years and used it for the first few sailing outings - when we started getting serious about a boat we went to defender (look it up on line) and got some top of the line pro rainer - i love mine but the admiral says hers is to heavy - we are now reshopping for a jacket for her and on the top of the list is west marines 3rd reef - i think for the price you can not beat it - we are not into the "hey look at me in my helly hanson or gill or super name brand" we want something that works and is reasonably priced - one of the sailing mags did a comparison on all of the foul weather gear and the 3rd reef was rated as acceptable - not the greatest but works - 
just my thoughts 
and yes i still have a 25 yo rei gortex shell that does not shed water very well anymore so i much prefer my prorainer and as for the bibs the pro rainer are the greatest - 
chuck patty and svsoulmates 
full time cruisers 
in a slip in brunswick ga for repairs


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## Snboard976 (Aug 10, 2008)

I had a West Marine explorer jacket and the water proof membrane separated from the shell after 3 seasons. I just picked up a Gill Atlantic Jacket that was last seasons model on clearance. It seems great, but I have owned it for only 3 weeks. I would try to avoid something that has that white waterproof membrane stuck on a nylon shell. Look for a last season model to get a good deal. There are lots of them at boat shows.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

It's amazing what good foul weather gear can do. Went sailing with a guy in Seattle on a C22 with heavy duty rain gear. We left in a pouring rain and went through sleet, hail, snow, and more rain over 6 hours. I had a good time! Never would have even considered going out at home.

Gary H. Lucas


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## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

I am into my 7th year wearing a set of Henri LLoyd TP2 fabric. They are comfortable and they *breathe*. I wouldn't settle for PVC coated fabric - you will be wet as can be from your own perspiration after a while. I have spent the night at the tiller during an all night race in pouring rain and I was warm and dry.

One tip -- Henri Lloyd makes a trouser style called a salopette. It is fantastic. The shoulders are neoprene so it fits beautifully without any straps digging into your shoulders. I bought mine in Europe but just recently I have seen the salopette advertised here. IMHO it is worth looking for.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

There seems to be a dominant opinion that weather gear is only worn when it's cold. Wearing fleecies and stuff to stop chafe and so on indicates that when you're cold, you wear foul weather gear.

I have sailed in the tropics when it has rained fit to bust and blown swathes of salt water across the decks for hours on end. It's warm but it's wet and salty as hell. And then I want something that is comfortable and not like a sauna.

I bought Helly Hansen before they used Gore-tex and that stuff I can only wear when its really cold else I perspire like billy-o. When I first started using it I thought it was leaking. I found out in time tha all the "water" on the inside starter there!!

In warmer climes I have a fully breathable set of Lalizas and they're comfy and I don't perspire (a lot).

But for me, the best weather gear one can buy is that which you can live in for 8 to 10 hours without dying of the heat and at the same time staying completely dry. What is that worth? Well each person has to decide for himself.

The "Deadliest Catch" rubber-coated stuff pictured in posts above has no place on my boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Not a big fan of Helly Hansen, as two of their jackets I've owned had the waterproof lining flake apart in less than a year.


sarafinadh said:


> pricy but beautifully designed and made.
> Home - Helly Hansen.com


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Pyacht.com was having a Gill Closeout sale; you might check to see if they have any of the OS series foulies left.

I bought the OS3's on closeout a couple of years ago and it's good for what we do (sailing SF Bay); but I am not sitting on a rail catching spray or sailing in heavy rain. Mostly I wear the pants for a windproof layer that also sheds water; and my Ronstan fleece jacket with windproof/waterproof membrane is good enough for most days. At ~220 for a set of waterproof Gill foulies I think they are an excellent price for mid-range foulies.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

So the admiral took it upon herself to solve my foulie delema. She got me a set of Henri Lloyd ocean explorer's, and for as much as she paid for them, I hope they have an ssb shore station somewhere so that if they leak, I can call and one of their employees can come hold an unbrella over me to keep me dry. They sure look nice and I said thank you, but $1100.00 seems like a lot to stay dry. I kind of feel bad that she spent that much money on me. Oh well, I guess I've got to dig deep for Christmas now, eh?


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

You will NOT be sorry! But she totally set you up for xmas now. Better have something good for her!


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

She so did it on purpose. She's been after me to get her a labradoodle (lab-poodle mix) for like 4 months now. Looks like she's got me cornered into getting one now.


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## Brucerobs (Mar 12, 2007)

*Congrats*

Closehauled, Problem solved. You are on the hook big time for Christmas this year. A very nice gift, indeed.

All this talk of foulies makes me want to put mine on and go sail in the cold rain we've been having for the past three days.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I thought about getting some linseed oil and possible some beeswax and maybe trying to make some oilskin just to see how it turns out. From what I've read over the years it seems like just putting some linseed oil on to some cotton that has a tight weave yields a relatively waterproof fabric, and melting beeswax into that with a bit of pine tar makes something truely waterproof, and even breathable ? Haven't ever tried it and I have never owned any actual oilskins.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Brucerobs- Thanks for the congrats. we have had rain for a few days here too. Where do you sail out of?

Wind_magic- What we have always refered to as oilskins is rubber or pvc over canvas. The old school linseed oil/beeswax/pine tar sounds like a fun project to see how they did it back in the day. I'd love to hear how they turn out.


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

We sail on the Chesapeake Bay, mouth of the Patapsco River. Hoping to get on the water a few more times but getting ready to haul out for the winter, unfortunately. We've had a bit of a warm spell lately so I shouldn't complain too much.


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

I think y'all get a lot of the same weather as we do. It's supposed to be super nice on saturday here like 62 and sunny, but only like 10-15kt. I'll probobly go anyways though. I'm heading to st. Augustine next month. I'm sure the new foulies will get some use, at least during the first few days.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

closehauled14 said:


> Wind_magic- What we have always refered to as oilskins is rubber or pvc over canvas. The old school linseed oil/beeswax/pine tar sounds like a fun project to see how they did it back in the day. I'd love to hear how they turn out.


The hardest part would be finding the materials. All of those things are such basic materials, raw linseed oil (not "boiled") is just the oil they squeeze out of linseeds, bees make bees wax, and pine tar is the pitch that comes out of pine wood when it is heated in a charcoal kind of process. 100 years ago you could get any of those materials anywhere. But where would you get them these days ? Not exactly a Home Depot kind of product! You'd almost have to special order them now.


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Winter sailing*

Charles, the weekend does look nice here as well.

My recently-retired parents have a boat that is currently in Jacksonville so I'm planning to do some sailing from FL this winter as well. Not sure where they are headed next but it will be warmer and sunnier than Maryland this time of year. We have some property near your home port, and Ive spent a couple of vacation weeks on Oak Island. Southport is a nice place.


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## RonRelyea (Nov 18, 2009)

*For GoreTex past its prime*

If you have goreTex that's lost its water repelency, there's a product called ReviveX that I've used that works pretty well ....

ReviveX® Soft Shell Water Repellent


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Wind_magic- you can get bees wax at specialty hair shops and sometimes at organic farmers markets. As for the linseed oil and the pine tar, I'm not so sure. 

Brucerobs- I hope that you get to enjoy a warm and fun winter. I actualy live on the island, but the boat stays across the bridge in southport. It's a good thing that you like to sail when you visit, because there isn't much else to do here. It is nice and peaceful though.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Have fun getting pine tar and linseed oil off of your deck and cockpit seats wind magic. While it "works"; it really is not what you would want aboard a modern sailboat. Understand that when this type of technology was used; sailors were not willing participants and had to do whatever they could to survive the cold/wet conditions. While it may have worked better than no protection; I'm sure it was miserable living/working in those conditions (by our standards today). Good luck doing it; but be aware that it might not be the best thing for your decks.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

KeelHaulin said:


> Have fun getting pine tar and linseed oil off of your deck and cockpit seats wind magic. While it "works"; it really is not what you would want aboard a modern sailboat. Understand that when this type of technology was used; sailors were not willing participants and had to do whatever they could to survive the cold/wet conditions. While it may have worked better than no protection; I'm sure it was miserable living/working in those conditions (by our standards today). Good luck doing it; but be aware that it might not be the best thing for your decks.


Thanks for the concern, but I wasn't even talking about actually using it for foul weather gear, but I can see how you could make that mistake since I did post the thought in this thread. In my post I just said I wanted to try it out and see if it really is waterproof, I mean like a small piece of cloth just to see. 

That said, are you sure it is as messy as you think ? From my reading it sounds like the mixture gets absorbed by the material and eventually dries, that it ends up being a heavier version of the cloth. This is still used, as I understand it, on horse riding gear. I really don't know much about it myself, I've never even seen cloth waterproofed in this way before.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Followup, I kind of wonder if the use of linseed oil, etc, for waterproofing really went out because it was so horrible and messy or if it was just inconvenient. It certainly wouldn't be the first time we started using something that wasn't quite as good simply because it is more convenient - a lot of the food I eat illustrates the point well.  There are a lot of things in the modern world that aren't nearly as good as the thing it replaced, they are instead just cheaper to manufacture, easier to make and sometimes use, and all the rest. Did old style oilskins really go out of favor because they were not as good as the new stuff ? Or did people just not like the maintenance that was involved and they decided they'd rather have PVC and Goretex instead of having to reapply the coating periodically ? This kind of waterproofing was used for a very long time, at least hundreds of years, you'd think they would have made quite an art out of it in that amount of time.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

You can still buy products like Sno-Seal; which works in a similar way. The problem is that it does not let moisture out so you end up cold/wet anyway from your own sweat. When I was a kid we used Sno-Seal to waterproof gloves for snowboarding and it did keep water out; but eventually the glove lining would freeze from internal sweat moisture and your fingers would get cold anyway.

I don't know first-hand how messy it is but pine pitch is nasty stuff. Linseed oil is not fun to work with either; many wood decking/siding preservatives still use it as a main ingredient. I don't think I would want to wear either of these as clothing even if it is less sticky and smelly when dry.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I've been doing a little more reading and I found that there are companies outside North America still making real oilskins. Instead of calling them that they call it "tin cloth" or "waxed cotton", but it is the same thing, you still renew the waterproofing every season or so, and more often on the cuffs and seams (according to one site). Sharp looking clothing too, not at all like the jolly rancher/skittles look that they force us to adopt in Goretex, which I have never liked.

Here is a reasonable example of some of this clothing, Filson website


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I found an old picture of the first Goretex foul weather gear ever created. The style has changed slightly in the last decade or so, but the colors are still basically the same.










Edit - Here is the picture GeorgeB posted, tell me that isn't the same stuff ...


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Man, those oil skins aint too shabby lookin'. I bet they're pretty warm too. I wander how waterproof they realy are?


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