# Rustoleum on keel -- Any Reason Why Not??



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

*I applied Interlux 2000e to a EXTREMELY THOROUGHLY de-rusted section and rust is already bleeding through after a few weeks on the hard.* That approach doesn't seem to work. Granted it was just one coat right now, but it doesn't get much wetness there under the boat while she's on land.

Any issues with using Rustoleum on an iron keel. Specifically, the hardware store manager recommended "Rust Restorer". It goes on white and dries black.

Is there any problem using Rust Restorer?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Most paint is NOT under-water happy 

It has rained so MUCH ? and clean iron will rust in salt-air in about 15 minutes


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## saildork (Feb 20, 2007)

The rust restorer works. Several companies make versions of it. It chemically bonds with the rust and can then be painted or faired with fairing compound before applying epoxy, bottom coat, etc. If your coverage is complete, you will have no more rust issues unless you ding the keel, thus compromising the integrity of the barrier.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Skip the Rustoleum..if you are getting boat dvice at the local hardware store...that's a big mistake, even the Sailnet advice is better than a hardware store.

Strip the keel completely, finishing with a wire wheel that leaves it completely bright white. Immediately brush on a coat of West epoxy. Following instructions, apply at least four more coats. Fill and fair with epoxy/microballons to your hearts content. Apply bottm paint. I you do the prep properly, you will never need to do it again. 

Or at least it worked on my Beneteau...


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## dgr (Apr 13, 2008)

sailingfool said:


> ...even the Sailnet advice is better than a hardware store.


you forgot, "sometimes."


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Note that I did an INCREDIBLY good job of taking all rust of the front of the keel. I took golf ball sized chunks out with a grinder. We are talking incredible here. I took off more keel than the rust will do in 20 years. And then I got rust showing through the 2-part barrier coat.

I simply can't get 100% of the rust out without sandblasting, and that isn't going to happen this year. And sandblasting still would not have gotten those rusty areas that were 1/4 inch into the keel and around corners within the keel itself

So I'm a little put off on the 2-part epoxy methods. I clearly need something that goes over the not-completely rust-free, but still shiny metal over 98% of the surface.

I actualy put the Rust Restorer on yesterday. I can wire brush it off if needed, but at least it isn't sitting on the hard rusting right now. IN fact, I'm htinking of wire brushing it all off except for inside the pits and then using the Interlux method of 2-part Yellow metal etcher, followed by barrier coat.

There has got to be a better way. If Barrier coat (Interlux 2000e) sticks to the Rust Restorer, then that might be the best solution.

Any help greatly appreciated.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

saildork said:


> The rust restorer works. Several companies make versions of it. It chemically bonds with the rust and can then be painted or faired with fairing compound before applying epoxy, bottom coat, etc. If your coverage is complete, you will have no more rust issues unless you ding the keel, thus compromising the integrity of the barrier.


saildork,

Have you tried this method? How think did you put on the Rust Restorer?

Regards


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Bene,
I seem to recall a certain someone, whose name rhymes with Sway, advising you to apply Ospho to that keel when stripped. Ospho is the commercial grade "rust restorer" containing phosphoric acid and you'll recognize it by it's mildew green color. It dries black after it has neutralized the rust.

The advise above, about the application of epoxy immediately after stripping is correct, particularly in a humid, salt air environment. Rust never sleeps, heck, it never even cat-naps!


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I am redoing the cast iron keel on my Etap 26 right now. I had a prior experinece with a Catalina 22 keel where the epoxy resin wouldn't cure because of internal moisture in the iron. I would up heating it for a week, then it cured.

This time I got a guy to sand blast the keel. Of course he didn't call me about doing it until it was done, and it started pouring rain. So even though it was indoors it rusted all to hell overnight. I heated the whole 1500 lb keel up to about 300 degrees using a propane weed burner with 500,000 BTUs. It took about 3 hours to heat up, and it was supposed get a light sandblast again, but it rained some more. So I am hoping it gets blasted again tomorrow, and I'll reheat it, then paint while it is still nice and warm. Hopefully that will do the trick.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

If you're using regular epoxy, I think any steel primer would be better. We used a variety of primers in the USCG. I don't think any of them were epoxy. Of course, that was 22 years ago.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Note that I'm looking at Rust Reformer. (Not Rust Restorer as originally posted.)

The web site says "Not for immersion use".

Sway- I have a question into the Ospo people to see if theirs is for immersion use. That may be the way to go.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Bene,
The ospo is used to get rid of the rust that is there and than it is removed. It is not a coating to protect from getting rust and it is not left on after it has done its job. I could be wrong, but that is the way I understand it.

If your getting rust coming through your first coat of Interprotect, that means you did not get it all out in the first place. The cast Iron keel is very porous and the rust is deep in there. You have to get it all out or no matter what you put over it, it will continue to rust from the inside out.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

bene if you go to home depot they sell a concrete etch that is just phoso acid, not a paint. if you dilute it 2 to 3 to one ( water/acid ) it will convert the rust and etch the surface. this will allow paint to stick well, as well as put a thin iron phosphate coating that will help resist rusting and can be put under water as it is not a paint

basicly it is in the firearm world called parkerizing, it will bubble when you apply it. i would get a cheap garden sprayer and spray it on, with several applications over and hour. make sure you stand up wind, due to the smell. 
"edit" when done appling rinse it off, not grind or wire brush just lots of water. it might flash rust a little, but that wont hurt it it should wipe and sand off when preping for interprotect


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## saildork (Feb 20, 2007)

Bene,

The actual product I used for the keel was Jasco 'Prep & Primer.' This product converts the rust from ferrous iron to iron phosphate. You can apply it with a brush to new metal or to rusted metal.

Another product that works real well is Loctite 'Extend.' Use this product on lightly rusted iron. I have used this on exposed metal on my trailer and other rusted objects that are open to the environment. It does not work on shiny metal...only on rusted metal. I have only seen this product in spray cans, but I understand it is available in a brush-on liquid as well.

A third product I've heard of is called 'Rust Mort.' I've never seen this stuff, but I understand it works like the others do.

I have no direct experience with the Rustoleum product, but it sounds like the same sort of primer as those above. I'm afraid my previous post sounded as if I had used the Rustoleum product. Sorry about that. 

After using the Jasco product on the keel, I used fairing compound to fill and fair the keel. Following that, I laid a piece of fiberglass cloth along the leading and bottom edges of the keel, wetted out with epoxy. I then put several coats of 2-part epoxy (I used West Systems) on the keel, followed by my antifouling.

I have observed no rust yet on the keel, nor has any rust appeared on the trailer parts that I coated with the 'Extend.' I got the idea to use these products from a video that Catalina produced on refinishing the swing keel of the C22. The gentleman who demonstrates the process on the video sails his boat in the Great Salt Lake...many time saltier than the ocean. So I figured if this stuff worked on his keel, it will work on mine. 

Hope this helps.

Pat


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

sailortjk1 said:


> Bene,
> The ospo is used to get rid of the rust that is there and than it is removed. It is not a coating to protect from getting rust and it is not left on after it has done its job. I could be wrong, but that is the way I understand it.
> 
> If your getting rust coming through your first coat of Interprotect, that means you did not get it all out in the first place. The cast Iron keel is very porous and the rust is deep in there. You have to get it all out or no matter what you put over it, it will continue to rust from the inside out.


Note there was no rust on the part that bled through. It was a very humid day, however, when it was sealed.

There have got to be many 1000s of people that have touched up rust spots on their keel...


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Straight West System epoxy will stick better than Interprotect, be more water resistant and is much harder. Interprotect is easy to work and apply at a performance price. The staight epoxy will also better hold in any of the rust-filler divots you may not be able to completely clean. 

You can make this job a life's effort, or you can do once, what has worked for others.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Wow. I'm watching the days slip by as I struggle with this. In cruising other sites, there seems to be several different ways to solve this. I'd like to go with Ortho now, but I wonder if it's the same thing as the Rust Reformer that I already have on. But Interlux has their method and now sailingfool mentions west systems epoxy instead.

That, and my season is only 3 months long due to kids school/sports.

It's getting a little daunting. I really wish there was a straightforward, tested, consumer-reports style, best, "do this dummy".


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Brad,

Short of sand blasting the entire keel, Ospho or other phosphoric acid-based rust "converter" is a reasonable thing to put under the Interlux epoxy primer. I almost flunked high school chemistry, but I think what these products are doing is stripping the O molecule off the Fe and replacing it with a phosphorous molecule -- Ferrous oxide becomes ferrous phosphate (or something like that). What's important is to get the O away from the Fe. Once that's done you can put on the Interlux primer, which I think needs at least 4 coats ( put two thick ones on BR's keel before the antifouling went on. We'll see how it goes when we haul in the fall). 

At this point in the season -- my recommendation would be to slap on the Ospho (or something similar) and then coat it with Interlux 2000 (several coats) then anti-foul and put the old girl in the water!!!!!! Whatever you've done to that point may not be perfect and may not permanently solve the problem, but it won't make it worse. 

You can sort things out when you haul in September/October. If the paint has failed over the summer (rust bleeding through), then haul the boat in a yard where they can sandblast it properly and let them paint it -- that way, if it rusts through you have someone to fix it. Let it sit primed over the winter. By spring you'll know if the yard's fix worked. You can then fair the keel, prime the faring and then anti-foul.

Time marches on!!! Go sailing.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

You can paint directly over Ospho. I am not knowledgeable of how epoxy products adhere to it. It'll be fine for immersion. It's the principle rust-fighting product used on merchant ships for non-shipyard maintenance.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

billyruffn said:


> At this point in the season -- my recommendation would be to slap on the Ospho (or something similar) and then coat it with Interlux 2000 (several coats) then anti-foul and put the old girl in the water!!!!!! Whatever you've done to that point may not be perfect and may not permanently solve the problem, but it won't make it worse.


I agree. Time to get the boat splashed.

Some comments:

1. Phosporic acid is an alternative to grinding/sanding rusty metal. It attacks the rust quickly, but the iron slowly. If you grind/sand to bare metal, no need for phosphoric acid or other products that use it as the active ingredient. Note that tHE MSDS for Rustoleum Rust Reformer does not list phosporic acic as an ingredient so it is a product that converts rust to a hard material that can be painted.

2. I suspect the "rust through" you experienced is because the one coat of I2000 you applied wasn't enough to seal the iron and the "high points' started rusting in the wet humid weather we have had in the last few weeks.

3. There are a number of approaches to sealing the keel after you have it down to bare metal. I have used Interprotect 2000, but epoxy resin is certainly an option. I decided not to go that way because I was concerned that if I had adhesion problems, getting back to bare metal again would be a major job.

As you know Brad, I've seen your keel, and other than the bulb, its in good shape. At this point, I would clean up the bad spots as best you can, seal with multilpe coats of Interprotect 2000, and apply bottom paint.

Jim


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## bentmast (Jun 6, 2007)

Not thread stealing, but on the same subject. I have a rusted keel on my Catalina 22 that I've been thinking on using a product called POR-15. Anyone ever use this stuff with good results?What is Por-15? - POR-15 Inc.


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## Driver (Mar 19, 2007)

*Por15*

My sister used POR15 on her keel this spring after getting annoyed by the constant rust. She stripped all botton paint off the keel using an environmentally friendly stripper. Rinsed. Sanded or ground off rust and used the POR prep stuff, then POR15 (following directions closely). There was some fairing and bottom painting done. Saw it 3 weeks after completion and it still looked good....and it's a 25 year old boat. It took some time and totally didn't look like fun, but the end result was good.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Thank you gentlemen! this really helps! (Beer is on me.)

I was planning on going back to exactly what Jimscal suggested when he visited me - to use the Interlux 2-part yellow stuff and Interlux 2000e. Now that I read the posts about Ospho, I'm thinking of adding that step.

Since I have a keel with Rust Reformer on it right now, here's my plan. I'm not sure if I have to wash off the Ospho after it's applied, so please feel free to *aggressively* comment on this procedure:

1) Wire brush off the Rust Reformer, leaving traces in deep pits is ok.

2) Apply Ospho
.....let dry
.....Wash off Ospho with water
.....Wire brush keel (since I just washed with water, to get the flash-rust off)

3) Apply the Interlux 2-part Yellow stuff

4) Apply 2-part Interlux 2000e
.....Several coats

5) Apply bottom paint

6) Go sailing

The timing looks like this:

1) Wire brush off the Rust Reformer, leaving traces in deep pits is ok [2 hours]

2) Apply Ospho [1 hour]
.....let dry (24 hours)
.....Wash off Ospho with water [30 minutes]
.....Wire brush keel (since I just washed with water, to get the flash-rust off) [1 hour]

3) Apply the Interlux 2-part Yellow stuff [Let dry for 1 hour]

4) Apply 2-part Interlux 2000e [30 minutes, plus 2 hour wait between coats]
.....Several coats (timing of last coat is important to help bottom paint stick)

5) Apply bottom paint

6) Go sailing

What do you think??


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

bent mast, por15 is a great product for old cars, i have used it some. i would be leary about putting it underwater thou, it has a very hard finish that might not let you "see" whats going on underneath. btw the convertor prep stuff in por15 is just phosphoric acid, and it ( the whole por15 system ) actually works better when there is rust on the part.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

1) Wire brush off the Rust Reformer, leaving traces in deep pits is ok [2 hours]

2) Apply Ospho [1 hour] no need to let it dry, just spray it a few times.
rinse, let dry. use some 150 sand paper to get flash rust off, or quick and gentle wire brush. you dont want to remove to much the coating that will be created. doing the rinse on a hot dry day you might not get any rust

3) Apply the Interlux 2-part Yellow stuff [Let dry for 1 hour]

4) Apply 2-part Interlux 2000e [30 minutes, plus 2 hour wait between coats]
.....Several coats (timing of last coat is important to help bottom paint stick)

5) Apply bottom paint

6) Go sailing


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

scottyt said:


> 1) Wire brush off the Rust Reformer, leaving traces in deep pits is ok [2 hours]
> 
> 2) Apply Ospho [1 hour] no need to let it dry, just spray it a few times.
> rinse, let dry. use some 150 sand paper to get flash rust off, or quick and gentle wire brush. you dont want to remove to much the coating that will be created. doing the rinse on a hot dry day you might not get any rust
> ...


just to be sure..have you performed this exact process to a steel keel, and if so, how many seasons did the result work for you?

I followed steps 3-6 for a LEAD keel, and found the results to be OK over the next few years, but not as perfect as the results of 5 coats of straight epoxy applied to a STEEL keel.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

sailingfool said:


> just to be sure..have you performed this exact process to a steel keel, and if so, how many seasons did the result work for you?
> 
> I followed steps 3-6 for a LEAD keel, and found the results to be OK over the next few years, but not as perfect as the results of 5 coats of straight epoxy applied to a STEEL keel.


i would agree that epoxy would be the best way to go, but i think he has the interprotect already. and no i have not used it on a steel keel, but its basicly what we used on submarines. we used a different final finish that was a very rubbery 2 part paint, and it held up for years as far as a i know. the paint did not even get a primer, we only used primers inside the boat


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Let the Ospho dry, it'll turn black, then paint or epoxy right over it. You've already got all the loose and flaking rust off, and what the Ospho neutralizes you'll want to just leave as is, versus digging deeper. And I don't know if I'd even epoxy it. Paint it and get out sailing. It's not like you won't be looking at it again fairly soon...like September or October. Very few of those ships out there have epoxy on their hulls and they go two years in the water, minimum. The biggest difference between them and you right now is, they're in the water. 'git 'er done!


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## KB7EWA (Aug 29, 2008)

This is a great thread. Any thoughts on fresh water applications?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

KB7EWA said:


> This is a great thread. Any thoughts on fresh water applications?


yeah, put it in the water and fix it next year! I know, you probably want to fix it now, but fresh water isn't going to do it much harm over a season, if it's just simple rust.

Just to be fair, what "fresh water applications" are you referring to? Of what? On what?


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

sailaway21 said:


> Let the Ospho dry, it'll turn black, then paint or epoxy right over it.


let me clarify i am talking about phosphoric acid not the commercial rust converter stuff. yes the commercial stuff needs to dry. do a search on jasco metal prep, or etch


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks again for the excellent advice. Here's my current procedure for this weekend:

1) Wire brush off the Rust Reformer, leaving traces in deep pits is ok [2 hours]

2) Apply Ospho [1 hour]
.....let dry (24 hours)

3) Apply the Interlux 2-part Yellow stuff [Let dry for 1 hour]

4) Apply 2-part Interlux 2000e [30 minutes, plus 2 hour wait between coats]
.....Several coats (timing of last coat is important to help bottom paint stick)

5) Apply bottom paint

6) Go sailing (after getting the boat back in the water)

Question: Do I still need step 3 if I'm going to leave the Ospho on and put Interlux 2000e (barrier coat) over it? I'm thinking that I can leave out step 3.

For what it's worth, this is becoming clear to me. Thanks!!


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Brad,

I think the purpose of the "yellow stuff" is to prime "bright metal" -- it's an etch primer. What you're trying to do with paint systems is get the layers to stick to what's underneath. Interlux claims the "yellow stuff" sticks to bright metal and their epoxy primers will stick to the yellow stuff, but I don't know if the epoxies will stick to Ospho as well as they will stick to the yellow stuff. The purpose of the Ospho or the Rust Reformer is to "convert" FeO#? to FePh#? (Here's a thought: Call Interlux and ask).

I've had some luck with this program -- i.e. grind (and Dremel), oshpo (to get the rust the Dremel won't touch), sand lightly, solvent to clean the dust away, Interlux yellow stuff, Interlux epoxy, fairing, more Interlux epoxy (2X), finish paint (urethanes or bottom paint). Some of the spots are years old and no sign of a relapse. I've also had spots treated thusly who've re-rupted rust in two years. Go figure.

What I know for sure:

1. Anything you do -- won't hurt, will help!
2. Won't sink the boat (nor permanently damage anything) between now and the time you haul in the fall.
3. Can be remedied in the fall when you haul. 
(Beginning to sound poetic, eh? -- fall, haul  )

So, slap on some paint. Launch the lady and be gone!! The kids need to go sailing. (See Raising Kids to Thrive Amid Career Chaos - WSJ.com -- sailing will take care of the "adaptability" and "exploration" requirements!!)


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## KB7EWA (Aug 29, 2008)

I've got a CAL 20, iron bolt on keel. I've noticed some spots on the keel flange where there are some rust spots that are actually flaking off. I was thinking of grinding it down and just putting some anti-rust oil based enamel on it. Since this boat has always been in fresh water I was wondering if it would work.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

EWA,

Most of the advice here is for salt water. Fresh water is a different matter and doesn't require such extreme solutions. If you have the time and energy to do a multi-step approach the solutions mentioned above will work well. If not, you could probably experiment with alternative approaches (like the one you described) to see how it works. If the boat's hauled seasonally you can evaluate the results and modify accordingly for the next season. Also, being in CO you're so high that there's less O2 running around in the atmosphere, so your keel will last longer reqardless of which paint regime you use. 

73s
KB1KZH


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Reading through my interlux application manual

NOTE power wire brushing is NOT permitted as it is ineffective and offen leading to corrosion

Yellow Viny-wash is for aluminum ?

I found the local rep Rick McQuade to be a great help IF you are using all interlux products


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Tom, the "yellow stuff" that I mentioned is the green can in your picture, the one with the hardener on top in a plastic cover.

My collection is starting to look a bit like yours. I'm using all Interlux for this (except for the Ospho and fairing work) that's Yellow Stuff, Barrier Coat (2000e) and bottom paint (Micron). So I ough to give them a call.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

tommays said:


> ... I found the local rep Rick McQuade to be a great help IF you are using all interlux products


I called Interlux and got a very simple statement that Ospho is not part of the system. They have not tested with Ospho or Phosphoric acid. I'm a bit disappointed, as I can't imagine that everyone with rust is either 1) sandblasting or 2) fastidiuosly grinding out huge chunks of keel to get even the smallest grian if rust (as I did prior). Option 1 is a no-go this season and option removed more good keel than 20 years of rust would do. No thanks to that again.

By the way Rick McQuade is no longer with the company.

So.. we are going experimental with this. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Since step 3 is for the etch for metal and I'll be applying onto Ospho, I'm not sure I'll do that step.

Thanks again.

(All -- Besides all the help you see in these posts from Billy Ruffn and others, Tom took the time to visit me at the boat and provide advice and encouragement. And I didn't get a chance to buy him a beer. I bet he and his wife like wine... hmmm...)


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

bene

I think you just have to gobber on the stuff and move on as the weather is just NOT allowing you to do the job correctly outdoors 

Even if somebody blasted the keel the humidity is so high right now there is no way the blasting air would be all that dry


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Bene505 said:


> ... I'm a bit disappointed, as I can't imagine that everyone with rust is either 1) sandblasting or 2) fastidiuosly grinding out huge chunks of keel to get even the smallest grian if rust (as I did prior). Option 1 is a no-go this season and option removed more good keel than 20 years of rust would do. No thanks to that again...


Putting a good, permanet finish on a steel keel is just like painting the topsides...90% of the work is preparation. If you don't have the time or energy to prep the keel right, and to properly cover it with a thick layer of solid epoxy (not the soft barrier coat stuff), you should skip this experiement and just roll on some paint and launch.

Otherwise you will end up having to remove the results of the above process next year, putting more time and money down this hole, and this tread may live forever.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Bene505 said:


> I called Interlux and got a very simple statement that Ospho is not part of the system. They have not tested with Ospho or Phosphoric acid.


It's all about "stickability" -- the layer on top sticking to the layer underneath. Companies engineer "systems", i.e., layers on layers that they believe will stick to each other and in the process they sell quarts and quarts of very expensive stuff (see Tommays photo above).

It's the way of the world. Nothing is easy (or cheap) on boats!! 

When I started the grand nautical adventure I tried to make everything perfect (Bristol). Now I think it's OK to just leave it better than I found it and go sailing. Progress, me thinks!!!!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

billyruffn said:


> It's all about "stickability" -- the layer on top sticking to the layer underneath. Companies engineer "systems", i.e., layers on layers that they believe will stick to each other and in the process they sell quarts and quarts of very expensive stuff (see Tommays photo above).
> 
> It's the way of the world. Nothing is easy (or cheap) on boats!!
> 
> When I started the grand nautical adventure I tried to make everything perfect (Bristol). Now I think it's OK to just leave it better than I found it and go sailing. Progress, me thinks!!!!


Billy said a mouthful there!

Painting steel, or cast iron in this case, for the marine environment involves a measure of luck that no manufacturer or even shipyard will acknowledge. I've seen shipyard paint, complete with primer after sandblasting, peeling within months of application, and that was above the waterline. I know that there is poor quality steel out there that will never hold paint because I've seen the stuff twenty years on!

The good news is that this is on a keel that is not going to be seriously harmed if you do nothing at all! You can slap a $20 coat of red lead over it, as it is now, and you'll probably be more surprised at how well it held versus how poorly it held. (and I know red lead will stick to Ospho!)

Try to remember that this is your keel. What are the odds that an anchor chain or something else is going to chafe it, the odd grounding may occur, etc...ad infinitum. You're going to be back on this project...until you sell the boat....don't drive yourself nuts chasing perfection at the risk of attainable.

Git 'er wet!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Bene - how goes the work on the boat? Are you getting close to splashing her yet?

Get pics when she goes in!


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Smack, 

Thanks for asking. I'm using Tommays' approach. Cover her up and get her in the water. I really think keel work is best done in the fall. the fall is very dry arond here.

I'll just have to force myelf to take the boat out instead of sailing her more.

Seriously though, some spots were starting to rust through the Interlux 2000x, other spots were not. I'm thinking I should use epoxy anyway. Many years back I put some silvery colored paint on an iron keel and then covered it over with layers of epoxy. (Not sure what that silvery colored "paint" was.) I sold the boat a few years after, so I have no idea what 15 years did to her.

Maybe that will be my fall thread, "Epoxy on keel -- why, why not?"


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

As I understand it, all Beneteaus have cast iron keels (and probably other brands too). I've watched this thread as Bene505 has struggled with rust on the keel. Is this typical work required for all Beneteaus? I've seen some, from time to time, in the yards for bottom jobs and I don't recall seeing them having to do such extensive work on the keels..actually noted nothing beyond getting barnacles off and cleaning, then putting on new paint. Is this something that all Beneteau owners have to contend with or is there something unique in the case? If Bene505's situation is typical, it seems to make a strong case for going with lead keels.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I think the big issue is it was so freaking wet this year it was a challange to even get bottom paint on without rain screwing it up outdoors 

From working with cast iron on machines it does rust in a matter of hours 

We have a big Bene dealer here and they seem to be able to keep it in control and Benes boat was grounded and ignored for a long time before he bought it making the cure a PITA

I still see the bottom of the keels as and issue as you cant really work on the bulb when its sitting on blocks of wood ?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

It may have a rusty keel - but MAN does the beer taste good in that sweet freakin' boat!!!

Go get 'em Bene!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I painted my mast this year indoors at my shop i would NOT have been able to do it outdoors


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

NCC320 said:


> As I understand it, all Beneteaus have cast iron keels (and probably other brands too). I've watched this thread as Bene505 has struggled with rust on the keel. Is this typical work required for all Beneteaus? I've seen some, from time to time, in the yards for bottom jobs and I don't recall seeing them having to do such extensive work on the keels..actually noted nothing beyond getting barnacles off and cleaning, then putting on new paint. Is this something that all Beneteau owners have to contend with or is there something unique in the case? If Bene505's situation is typical, it seems to make a strong case for going with lead keels.


Not all Beneteaus have steel keels, but many do...steel keels seem more common in Europe. Lead is a much preferred keel material, but more expensive.

Any steel keel needs to be properly protected, in a manner lead does not, or it will rust and rust. From my experience, only 5-6 coats of straight epoxy provides the nneded protection. prep the keel properly and cover it right, and you should never need to do it again, other than repairing any divots in the covering every season. A steel keel is not a reason to avoid an otherwise attractive boat.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> Not all Beneteaus have steel keels, but many do...steel keels seem more common in Europe. Lead is a much preferred keel material, but more expensive.
> 
> Any steel keel needs to be properly protected, in a manner lead does not, or it will rust and rust. From my experience, only 5-6 coats of straight epoxy provides the nneded protection. prep the keel properly and cover it right, and you should never need to do it again, other than repairing any divots in the covering every season. A steel keel is not a reason to avoid an otherwise attractive boat.


You're right, some of the performance oriented Beneteaus have lead keels. But I thought the others were cast iron, not steel?

To answer NCC's question, walking around boatyards I see a lot of cast iron keels clearly in need of "service". My sister's First 285 has had to have the keel stripped and sealed multiple times. It's a big job. They have the work done professionally by a reputable yard, but it only seems to last about 2-3 seasons before rust starts weeping and bubbling again.

I think one of the problems is that it's just so darn hard to escape ANY abrasion on the keel. Even if you are lucky enough to avoid any accidental groundings, there's always the issue of an anchor chain abrading it if you get a sudden windshift or a spin from current.


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## BeneteauMark (Nov 7, 2002)

We did the keel on our First 235 about five years back. Started by sandblasting to bare metal, then using WM's chemical rust converter. Five coats of Interlux 2000 over that, then antifouling. No rust so far (knock on wood), but we're in fresh water.

FWIW, the chemical rust converters I'm familiar with change rust (Fe2O3) to Fe3O2, which is what you see on a blue steel firearm. Rust flakes off, but Fe3O2 stays in place. 

Good luck with the project.
Mark


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

JohnRPollard said:


> ....My sister's First 285 has had to have the keel stripped and sealed multiple times. It's a big job. They have the work done professionally by a reputable yard, but it only seems to last about 2-3 seasons before rust starts weeping and bubbling again.....


Then I think the yard is not comfortable quoting the true work needed to do the job properly, probably worries the customer will think they are being ripped off when quoted $4,000 for covering a keel, so they quote $1,800 and do that much work...which isn't enough.

Covering a keel is very low tech, the perfect, if ugly DIY job.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> Then I think the yard is not comfortable quoting the true work needed to do the job properly, probably worries the customer will think they are being ripped off when quoted $4,000 for covering a keel, so they quote $1,800 and do that much work...which isn't enough.
> 
> Covering a keel is very low tech, the perfect, if ugly DIY job.


You could well be right about that. I don't know what they paid in the end, but I suspect that a figure of $1-1.5K every 2-3 years is perceived as more palatable than even $2-3K in one shot.

I noticed on the First 235 website that some owners have switched over to lead keels by Mars.


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