# Google Glass and it's effect on sailing



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Unless you've been out at sea for a few years, you know that Google Glass is coming.

Here is an interesting Wired Magazine article. The translation with automatic overlay is amazing and makes you wonder if you'll need a chart plotter in the future when it's already built into your eye glasses. (This from a man who uses his Droid as a chart plotter.). And not even talking about how votive commands could be integrated.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/11/google-glass-sdk/

Regards,
Brad


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Personally, I'm a bit sceptical..

IIRC, "Wearable Computing" was developed over a decade ago now (no, not by Google), and, apart from specialist applications in military and exploration where it persists to this day, it faded away almost as fast as it appeared - simply because there was no demand for it. A "solution in search of a problem", you might say.

What Google has to offer most seems to be real-world reasons to use the technology in the first place (ie. problem generation). Will it ever replace chart plotters?? Dunno maybe. Ask Google.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I will only use these if they make the glasses big enough so I can paste my paper charts to the inside of the lens.

All this digital hooey will just get you killed.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

If I can add in virtual bikini babes to my foredeck then I'll get a pair, but otherwise I don't really see the point.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

None of yall can see the potential here? Heads up display (HUD)......? Vital information that you are looking for literally right in front of your face...always. Heading, course over ground, speed through water, speed over ground, vcg, wind speed and direction, etc. 

This means no more looking for the tack ticks or at gps screen or having to leave the side of the cockpit to look at the binnacle compass or trying to read the compass next to the companion way far forward in cockpit. 

It could help for cruisers to have a HUD for charts or/with radar overlay for coming into unfamiliar ports/harbors. Radar in front to of you during inclement weather or heavy fog. 

This doesn't even touch virtual reality of incorporating AIS. When AIS targets within range you can see it pop up on display when you look in its direction (think fighter jet helmet). Or charts, seeing landmarks or structures on display, depth curves and semi submerged objects.. 

I'm not even getting into voice commands, just imagine asking for speed or course, or how far till way point. Voice can interact with above topics/paragraphs.. 

You can't just say oh its just some new tech that isn't going to be helpful before you actually know what it's capable of doing. This has HUGE potential in a lot of areas not just sailing. 

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Sounds all cool and stuff but it's still a piece of electronics to fail, fall off face or OB and in the end you'll still want the old school tech for back up and double checks


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## mattt (Aug 26, 2013)

Think not just about realtime AIS signals, but predictive AIS signals. Imagine requesting the "15 minutes from now" augmented reality view of marine traffic. There's a lot of potential for massive innovation.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Classic30 said:


> Personally, I'm a bit sceptical..
> 
> IIRC, "Wearable Computing" was developed over a decade ago now (no, not by Google), and, apart from specialist applications in military and exploration where it persists to this day, it faded away almost as fast as it appeared - simply because there was no demand for it. A "solution in search of a problem", you might say.


I was somewhat skeptical too... then I realised I make my living coding on some of those _"wearable computers"_ all the time - smart phones. For a long time, they too were _"a solution in search of a problem"_... then Blackberry found a problem to solve, Nokia's N-series tried to muscle in on the game, and finally Apple convinced everyone else that life was not worth living if they were disconnected from the Interwebs for more than half an hour. There is more power & connectivity in the modern "wearable computer" we take for granted than in the first four of my desktop computers combined.

Do I think Google Glass is going to be the next iPhone? Nope. I do think, however, it is the next Blackberry. It will be useful for some, cool to have/use for others, and serve as the platform/inspiration for those that will take the idea to the next level.

As for being a chart plotter or similar... I don't think so just yet. The resolution of the display is too low and the device is WAY too expensive to be wearing on one's head at the back of the boar during heavy swell or chop. Give the technology some time to catch up to the promise of never having to pull the phone out to get/see information. It took a while for Blackberry's emails to become iPhone's... well, _"everything there's an App for"_. It'll take at least that long for Glass to become as ubiquitous


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## waterwks4me (Jan 16, 2010)

Like it or not, this is the future. This type of technology is in the beginning stages and will eventually explode with possible applications. The military has been using visual cues projected on face shields and windshields for years now. Just think about some of the technology we use in everyday life that was but only a crude device in the beginning with limited capabilities. Before the ideas of today and tomorrow become a reality, we have to wait for the technology to give us what is needed to make it so. Thus the always present problem of saying to one's self, should I go ahead and buy this today or wait until next year for the latest version to come out. No matter, whatever you buy that is the latest technology is already old school. As the saying goes "you ain't seen nothing yet".


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Do they make ISAF Cat 1 rated croakies?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

There's a LOT of information displayed on a plotter, put that much information on glasses in front of your eyes and you'll sail right into the side of a tanker. That's why heads up displays offer a minimum of critical information.

At 6 knots how much "real time" information do you need? Wind speed, depth? I can get that by glancing at the large displays on my binnacle.

How often do you glance down at the detail on your plotter while sailing? It's a reference that you check periodically, you certainly don't stare at it.

Plotters have become ubiquitous because they offer a real advantage over paper charts in the cockpit. I don't see google glasses offering that same kind of obvious advantage.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Is sort of technology for sailing can be amazing.

I can't wait to have a heads up display so wherever I am on board, or in bed, I can see exactly what's going on.

What a wonderful world it's turning into! 



Mark


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

This could be a big benefit. When I am sailing, the LAST place I like to be is behind the wheel. But that is where most chart plotters are located. So to see that information you need to be somewhere in the back of the boat. Having a hands free way of viewing information could be very useful. With google glass you could be sitting in the side decks and have all the plotter information right in front of your eyes. I know that most modern plotters will now stream the display to an android or iOS device, but that's something you need to hold in your hand, that can easily get dropped, wet, or otherwise broken. I do use my phone to run a lite plotting program but having more information would be a benefit.

Do I think this will be a game changer? No. However, it certainly will be useful. I image that short handed sailors, especially racers, and others like that will be using it.

Barry


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

For me, the whole point of going sailing is to be disconnected from the rest of the world. I spend all day being bombarded by technology and demands for my attention. On the boat, the only demand is the boat. The last thing I would want is to look at something on the shore and a damn great pop-up advert blocks my vision (you just know that is going to happen). I just don't think there is that much information that *has* to be in front of your eyes all the time on a sailboat. Perhaps if you are an AC racer then yes, I can see how you might find it useful, but for most us, well, we aren't moving along at several hundred miles an hour and things just don't happen that quick.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

BoatyardBoy said:


> This doesn't even touch virtual reality of incorporating AIS. When AIS targets within range you can see it pop up on display when you look in its direction (think fighter jet helmet). Or charts, seeing landmarks or structures on display, depth curves and semi submerged objects..
> 
> I'm not even getting into voice commands, just imagine asking for speed or course, or how far till way point. Voice can interact with above topics/paragraphs...


Coming soon to a marina near you, FIREFOX, the boat.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

poopdeckpappy said:


> Sounds all cool and stuff but it's still a piece of electronics to fail, fall off face or OB and in the end you'll still want the old school tech for back up and double checks


Chart plotters fail, compasses can break, a mast can fall, sails can rip.. There's always what if.. But if you exercise proper prudence with anything it reduces those chances.. And old school tech? What's old school these days? Compass? Gyro Compass? Radar? Gas? They have la all been around for at least 2 decades.. I'm not asking yall to throw your binnacle away in favor of this, I'm saying don't knock it till you understand it. A good seaman will always have redundant stations(see: prudence)

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

JimMcGee said:


> There's a LOT of information displayed on a plotter, put that much information on glasses in front of your eyes and you'll sail right into the side of a tanker. That's why heads up displays offer a minimum of critical information.
> 
> At 6 knots how much "real time" information do you need? Wind speed, depth? I can get that by glancing at the large displays on my binnacle.
> 
> ...


It's only over one eye... So if you hit a tanker it's because you either were practicing good seamanship or you didn't take the patch over your other eye... Plus the lens where info is displayed is transparent (has anyone seen a corvette HUD?)

How often do you check your tack ticks or similar devices?

Cruisers may not see the whole potential of this but racers can definitely use this. All real time info without taking eyes off of driving or tell tales..

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yup for racers awesome...if Im cruising the last thing I want is something on my head, making me more sweaty and claustrophobic...I cant even stand wearing sunglasses in the tropic sun...it just does something to my brain...I really cant focus with stuff on my head! jajajajaja

for racing its for sure the future and now!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

PaulinVictoria said:


> For me, the whole point of going sailing is to be disconnected from the rest of the world. I spend all day being bombarded by technology and demands for my attention. On the boat, the only demand is the boat. The last thing I would want is to look at something on the shore and a damn great pop-up advert blocks my vision (you just know that is going to happen). I just don't think there is that much information that *has* to be in front of your eyes all the time on a sailboat. Perhaps if you are an AC racer then yes, I can see how you might find it useful, but for most us, well, we aren't moving along at several hundred miles an hour and things just don't happen that quick.


Paul is pretty close to the mark on this for me.

I'm not anti-technology, but I doubt Google will allow me the luxury of restricting my display to "sailing data" on my Google Glass. I'll be bombarded with texts, email and advertisements. There's no way in hell, that I will go out sailing with all of that in my vision.

I see the value for racers, not so much for cruisers (and I do both).

Plus, I wear prescription eye glasses now. I absolutely HATE them when I'm sailing, and I switch to contact lenses. I'm not about to put on contact lenses so that I can go sailing with a Google Glass strapped to my head. I want to be free, and unencumbered.

Once, I left my phone ringer on by accident while sailing. My phone rang, and I foolishly answered it out of concern that one of my daughters might be trying to contact me. You can imagine my rage when it turned out to be a telemarketer interrupting my moment of Zen out on the water.

I might own a Google Glass someday, but it'll be off, shoved into the galley drawer while I'm sailing.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

... Coming into harbor just now we had a tug boat coming the other way in a narrow-ish channel. My 'Glass showed it was the 'Lasy Susan' about to spin my world around. Indeed, the AIS prediction had it passing very close to me in 2 minutes and 20 seconds. I stared at the words 'Lazy Susan' on the Glass and then winked. VFH went live, with his ID already dialed in.

"Lazy Susan, this is the sailing vessel Rag Dryer, off your bow", I said.

About this time I glanced to my port, blinked a long slow blink and brought up the depth overlay, adjusted for the present tide height. It was too shallow to go there. The Active Captain link was working too, as there was an unmarked piling 100 yards off, one of several obstructions in the area. It looked good to the starboard, but it meant backtracking a bit. And he might be headed that way.

"Rag Dryer, Lazy Susan", was the reply. Voice recognition took a second, it's usually pretty slow like that. Finally, up popped the name Vincent Boatsalot, age 42, divorced twice, 3 kids, smoker, failed a drug test back in 05. It was dismissed because he ate a poppy bagel that morning. The retest the next day was fine. No DUIs. Tax payer. Good credit rating. Jets fan. 

My 'Glass told me that his 'Glass was looking at me. I can only assume my 'Glass was informing his 'Glass that I was looking at him. (And there was another sailboat in the distance looking at each of us.)

"Are you taking the turn to your port or continuing straight", I said.

"We're going straight; suggest 1 whistle.", was the reply. Those tug drivers are good.

So I glanced up at the autopilot icon and did the usual wink nod and look to the right. The boat immediately changed course. 

Then I took a sip of my coffee and went back to listening to my favorite 80s channel. The coffee was good so that I order another pound to be delivered to the marina and twittered how much I liked it. That done, I took another sip.

As the tug passed, I brought up VHF with his ID again and said "Go Jets".

I was surprised at the reply as he said "80s music rocks, Bene505."

Two blinks later and we were following each other on Instagram, so I DVR-ed back a couple minutes, edited the screen shot and posted a picture of his fine ship. He immediately liked it and hash-tagged it for his friends to see, at #tugsunderway.

Then I took another sip, slowed the boat down and left my hammock on the bow to get a refill. 

Regards,
Brad


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Many good points made here. While I'm not necessarily with the nay sayers here, I would caution, "don't be the first in line". Unless the marine industry can team up with other industries, marine quality HUDs will be too expensive for all save the wealthiest/best sponsored boats.
If the functions displayed can be programmed to those you most need, like a radar/sonar paint of where you are looking or AIS targets that could be where you want to go, then they could be very valuable. But wind speed? How frequently do you need that? And what degree of accuracy? When to put in a reef is a very intuitive, learned process, not done when the apparent wind is 18.6023 kts.
Etc.
John


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Bene505 said:


> ... Coming into harbor just now we had a tug boat coming the other way in a narrow-ish channel. My 'Glass showed it was the 'Lasy Susan' about to spin my world around. Indeed, the AIS prediction had it passing very close to me in 2 minutes and 20 seconds. I stared at the words 'Lazy Susan' on the Glass and then winked. VFH went live, with his ID already dialed in.


Brad here's my preferred version of coming into the harbor.

I check AIS on the plotter and hail the tug on my VHF. We quickly work out the details and wave as we pass. I check out the heron fishing along the shore and take a minute to appreciate how that pretty Alden in the first marina looks in the setting sun.

My cell phone, laptop and tablet are all below and turned off so no one can bother me until Monday.

I take a nice deep sniff of that wonderful salt marsh smell along the shore and ponder a tumbler of Pusser's, one ice cube and a sunset.

I can't much see how Google can improve on that...


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Man I'm gonna get me those Google glasses , I'm gonna get on my Segway ride down to the marina and go sailing ! How cool would that be ? Um I'm thinking dork factor times 10.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

those damn segways, they are not scooters, or wheelchairs they are the utter DORK machine

x2!

I hate them more because I once worked in a restaurant where there was a customer that always RODE into the dining area...making a mess...hitting tables, and everything and his excuse was its like a wheelchair I have the right to do so...

not even my dad who suffered from MD for 30 years ever had this attitude


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Hey christian, maybe that guy needed a sailing app.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

YEAH to get from his ass to his head and back! jajajaja


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

BoatyardBoy said:


> Chart plotters fail, compasses can break, a mast fall, sails can rip.. There always what if.. But if you exercise proper prudence with anything it reduces those chances.. And old school tech? What's old school these days? Compass? Gyro Compass? Radar? Gas? They have la all been around for at least 2 decades.. I'm not asking yall to throw your binnacle away in favor of this, I'm saying don't knock it till you understand it. A good seaman will always have redundant stations(see: prudence)
> 
> -sent from sea via corked bottle


I understand HUD tech and I'm not dismissing it , I just don't see it as a viable or reliable sailing tool just simply another cumbersome toy.

What I meant by old school was navigation tools that we all have on our boats today that are not that far removed from the navigation tools on boats centuries ago, tools that don't need upgrading every five year, that don't need tech support and the only source of power needed is sitting on your shoulders.

I think seamanship suffers when reliance on high tech clouds your mind and that is nothing more than my personal opinion.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

poopdeckpappy said:


> I understand HUD tech and I'm not dismissing it , I just don't see it as a viable or reliable sailing tool just simply another cumbersome toy.
> 
> What I meant by old school was navigation tools that we all have on our boats today that are not that far removed from the navigation tools on boats centuries ago, tools that don't need upgrading every five year, that don't need tech support and the only source of power needed is sitting on your shoulders.
> 
> I think seamanship suffers when reliance on high tech clouds your mind and that is nothing more than my personal opinion.


I'm sure the old salts said chart plotters were just cumbersome toys when they first came out, not keeping an open mind on the future potential of the new technology.

Seamanship doesn't suffer from reliance on high tech, they are aids. Aids not crutches. If using good seamanship is used nothing should cloud anything. Knowledge is power and the more you know the better it is. Having that knowledge that much closer and available to you the better and safer.

I see we disagree on this somehow, I'm not sure if you are discouraging this because it's "new" or because it's unknown to you... From what I take out of it, we shouldn't rely on AIS, radar, electronic charts, depth sounders, etc because a sailor could rely on these for travels. I guess we all just need to whip out our sextants and lead line in between tacks when coming into port so we know we're in the correct waters.

It's beyond me how technology(not just this) gets shutdown because it's "new" and unproven,(fiberglass was here at one time, I guess this wood guys sure showed them). Just like gps, this is new technology that is barely out of infancy. You shouldn't knock progression. If it isn't for you that's fine.

I formally agree to disagree, respectfully.

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

BoatyardBoy said:


> From what I take out of it, we shouldn't rely on AIS, radar, electronic charts, depth sounders, etc because a sailor could rely on these for travels. I guess we all just need to whip out our sextants and lead line in between tacks when coming into port so we know we're in the correct waters.
> 
> It's beyond me how technology(not just this) gets shutdown because it's "new" and unproven,(fiberglass was here at one time, I guess this wood guys sure showed them). Just like gps,
> this is new technology that is barely out of infancy. You shouldn't knock progression. If it isn't for you that's fine.
> ...


That's not what he's saying.

From a new F.A.A. report due out shortly:

"...pilots rely too much on automation in the cockpit and are losing basic flying skills. Relying too heavily on computer-driven flight decks now poses the biggest threats to airliner safety world-wide, the study concluded. The results can range from degraded manual-flying skills to poor decision-making to possible erosion of confidence among some aviators when automation abruptly malfunctions or disconnects during an emergency."

This is not new tech, I worked on HUD systems 40 years ago on attack aircraft in the Navy, and there were problems then with target-fixation and pilot distraction. That's why they had to convert some aircraft to 2-seaters, the 2nd seat for someone to handle all the electronic wizardry while the other guy kept the plane from falling out of the sky. Even today our newest ships are having accidents because people are letting tech take the place of basic seamanship,- and those folk are professionals. What makes you think recreational boaters will be less susceptible to error?

Used judiciously and conscienciously, this latest gizmo may be a useful *tool* in the hands of someone who has basic "old-school" seamanship down to a second nature. To me it seems a little too much like driving-and-texting,- and you know how badly wrong that can go.

P.S.
Your signature lacks something in technophilic flavor,- may I suggest replacing "corked bottle" with "subspace tachyon beam"?


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Talk about timing,- I couldn't dream this up:

Dream lift-off! Jumbo cargo jet back in the air after landing at wrong Kansas airport


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I'll get one of those when I can find it on craigslist for under 100 bucks.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

I think I'll just upload my route waypoints to the cloud and let it interface with you guys' google glasses to get me from here to there without my interference...I'll be in my bunk...


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## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

I just wish I could see my tachometer without standing on my head.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Bene505 said:


> The translation with automatic overlay is amazing and makes you wonder if you'll need a chart plotter in the future when it's already built into your eye glasses.


Hell, this stuff makes me wonder whether you'll actually need to go sailing at all 



PaulinVictoria said:


> If I can add in virtual bikini babes to my foredeck then I'll get a pair, but otherwise I don't really see the point.


I'll take mine with the X-Ray Vision feature, what's the point if you can't see _through_ those bikinis, after all?

Hope they plan to make polarized versions, I'd still need that for sailing in places like the Bahamas... Although, probably by then, Goggle will have charted every single coral head on the planet, anyway, there will be no longer be any need to keep an eye out for the damn things 

One sentence in that article really jumped out at me, though perhaps those who've never played golf may not appreciate its significance:



> Similarly, GolfSight can let you know where you are on a golf course, how far you are from the green, and what hazards are between you and it without having to dive into a phone.


For me, golf has always been a truly mystical game... As a boy, much of my best 'thinking' occurred on the water in a small sailboat, or on a golf course... I simply can't fathom having to pull out an electronic device to obtain a sense of "where I am on a golf course", or what lies between me and the pin...

A read of Michael Murphy's wondrous GOLF IN THE KINGDOM would likely pass right over the heads of those so eager to embrace these sorts of 'advances', different strokes for different folks...

This world continues to pass me by, but that's OK, I still somehow manage to get out there from time to time... 



> Golf is a game to teach you about the message from within, about the
> subtle voices of the body-mind. And once you understand them you can
> more clearly see your `hamartia', the ways in which you approach to
> the game reflects your entire life. Nowhere does a man go so naked.
> ...


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Well, a pretty basic 737 was landed on Cabiniss Field about 4.5 miles from its destination Corpus Christi international. The physical differences between the airports is sufficient that someone looking out the window would say "Uh oh". But the fact remains electronic navigation systems have reduced errors over the last three or four decades, and more is in store.
But for plain old sailboats (POSs?) one of those helmets would be worth more than the boat, so instead of sailing, we would go out computing?
John


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

ccriders said:


> But for plain old sailboats (POSs?) one of those helmets would be worth more than the boat, so instead of sailing, we would go out computing?
> John


Hey, there's an idea. Instead of going out and getting all wind-blown and salty, we can all sit around the warm, cozy, bar wearing silly helmets and "virtually racing" each other...

Ignoring for a minute the fact that kids everywhere do that now on their parent's iPads - just how stoopid would that be?? Don't answer that.. 

I mean, instead of formal race protests once everyone is off the water and cooled down a bit we can have immediate punch-ups in the bar... and it's okay to ram other boats because, they're not real anyway so no damage done. Yes, what a great idea.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> I'm not anti-technology, but I doubt Google will allow me the luxury of restricting my display to "sailing data" on my Google Glass. I'll be bombarded with texts, email and advertisements. There's no way in hell, that I will go out sailing with all of that in my vision.


Well, I can at least speak authoratively to this bit. Google allows one to turn off all notifications of texts, emails, etc and the only advertisements you'll be "forced" to look at would be those embedded in an app you got cos it was "free".

Just like the in-car navigation software I write for Google's Android platform (yes, the same basis that underlies Google Glass  ) - it's all a matter of getting what you pay for. If you want it for "free", the company providing the service will make money from you some other way (generally advertising). If you pay for the application/data/service - the likelihood of advertising is diminished immensely. We would never embed advertising in our product but, then again, we'd never give it out for free either. The whole _"you get what you pay for"_ applies even in techno-topias


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## jak3b (Apr 24, 2011)

BentSailor said:


> Well, I can at least speak authoratively to this bit. Google allows one to turn off all notifications of texts, emails, etc and the only advertisements you'll be "forced" to look at would be those embedded in an app you got cos it was "free".
> 
> Just like the in-car navigation software I write for Google's Android platform (yes, the same basis that underlies Google Glass  ) - it's all a matter of getting what you pay for. If you want it for "free", the company providing the service will make money from you some other way (generally advertising). If you pay for the application/data/service - the likelihood of advertising is diminished immensely. We would never embed advertising in our product but, then again, we'd never give it out for free either. The whole _"you get what you pay for"_ applies even in techno-topias


Sure, Just like cable TV.....


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

manatee said:


> That's not what he's saying.
> 
> From a new F.A.A. report due out shortly:
> 
> ...


I agree it can become a crutch if a person allows it. It can be a lot of information. The list of things I said could be useful was not a list for everything at once. It would be too much for one person and one eye for that matter to comprehend while also trying to think. But I'm not disagreeing that it could be a distraction either. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that because it's new and some don't think it will work, doesn't mean it's not good technology. It's progression and innovation. I can't see how everyone is saying it's that distracting, it's less distracting than looking at a chart plotter or tac tick display on the bulkhead. And of course, if I were cruising I wouldn't use it because there's no need, maybe putting it on coming into a busy harbor or unknown Island or such. But I race and I see application for it there big time, it could help the skipper or driver keep focused in front where he/she should be looking.

Haha Yea, well you see the bottle is made of generation 3 Corning Gorilla Glass and the cork is space age foam... And you better believe that letter in the bottle is on a flexible e-ink screen. Is that better? Haha!

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

jak3b said:


> Sure, Just like cable TV.....


Apples & oranges. Cable TV must be connected to work. That's what you pay for, the right to have & use the connection. It's also a service - if they go away, so too does what you pay for.

Navigation software, such as what I develop, doesn't require that connection. Download the map/nav data & application to the device and it'll run with or without a connection*. Also, if we fall off the face of the planet, your software still runs, you can still navigate from A to B, etc... you just can't get updates for the map/nav data. All of which would be somewhat mandatory if trying to use Google Glass for HUD displays at sea 

--
* In our case, it's kind of mandatory as the price for _"navigation as an online service"_ is set at '_free_' by Google & Nokia. In the offline space, however, we are able to leverage our low overheads into a price point that challenges the big guns in the market


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

BentSailor said:


> Just like the in-car navigation software I write for Google's Android platform


So, this explains why my nav app works better when I hold my phone upside down


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

JimMcGee said:


> There's a LOT of information displayed on a plotter, put that much information on glasses in front of your eyes and you'll sail right into the side of a tanker. That's why heads up displays offer a minimum of critical information.
> 
> At 6 knots how much "real time" information do you need? Wind speed, depth? I can get that by glancing at the large displays on my binnacle.
> 
> ...


Well that is part of the advantage, you get an equivalent of like an 80 inch screen, transparently projected ahead of you, more data in less confined space of a chart plotter. I could see it giving good info overlaid on top of what is out there. You want to hail that big tanker you might be running into, look at it and the AIS will show you what the tanker is doing, and the name, so you can hail him by name and advise him of your intentions. Now glance down into the companion way and it will show the name of the song playing, and with a blink you can change to the next song on the play list. Look up at your sails and it could projection the optimal shape so you can trim it to get the most speed. Then look over at the boat next to you and it will show you exactly what she looks like under that swim suit, and with the facial recognition you have her phone number, and Facebook page and can see that she is single, looking for a sailor.

Then comes my real issue:



PaulinVictoria said:


> For me, the whole point of going sailing is to be disconnected from the rest of the world. I spend all day being bombarded by technology and demands for my attention. On the boat, the only demand is the boat. The last thing I would want is to look at something on the shore and a damn great pop-up advert blocks my vision (you just know that is going to happen). I just don't think there is that much information that *has* to be in front of your eyes all the time on a sailboat. Perhaps if you are an AC racer then yes, I can see how you might find it useful, but for most us, well, we aren't moving along at several hundred miles an hour and things just don't happen that quick.


I work on computers all day during the week, and the last thing I want to do is look through one all day on the weekends when on a sailboat. I imagine my kids would love to. It seems to be a generational thing. I have seen them in action. Saw someone walking around Ikea in a pair. They do look dorky, but not too obtrusive. I think that is where this is really going to take off, they aren't huge and don't look obvious. The guy I spoke to said he loves them, but was not really allowed to show them to me. You could tell he really wanted to though.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

Since no one seems to know exactly what they are visually since the article didn't show them or what it looks like looking through them.. Here's a video.






Now tell me how this is so "obtrusive" or "distracting"?

-sent from sea via corked bottle


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

BoatyardBoy said:


> Since no one seems to know exactly what they are visually since the article didn't show them or what it looks like looking through them.. Here's a video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the test-drive. Multihanded racing crews could use them, I agree. I think some of the "resistance" you are seeing is from single- or short-handed recreational (read: not officially-sanctioned racing) sailors. Not so much against the technology itself, as having no use for it in their day-to-day sailing.

Coming into a strange harbor at night or in fog, sure,- I'll take all the help I can get. Gunkholing through the 'Glades & Keys - not so much. Though 10,000 people may have been there before, if I am exploring some little tidal creek for the first time, what I see, hear, smell and discover are new *to me* -- I do not want to know about the old Calusa shell mound 1/4 mile upstream from the next bend, I want to discover it for myself.

I trust the user can select how much and how often info is displayed. As long as there's an "OFF" switch, fine;- start going "Max Headroom" on us and there'll be trouble. 



> Haha Yea, well you see the bottle is made of generation 3 Corning Gorilla Glass and the cork is space age foam... And you better believe that letter in the bottle is on a flexible-inkscreen. Is that better?


I like it!  
All that is rather a mouthful,- and the short form does sound better.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I love technology and frequently use my iPad/iPhone for navigation and other functions while aboard, but I'm not sure I want a lens with digital "stuff" in between me and the big blue yonder. I like the wind in my eyes and an unobstructed/unaltered view of the water around me. That's part of sailing's allure. 

I can just imagine watching a regatta and seeing all the skippers wearing their Google Glass...reminding me of the people in the malls who walk around with a bluetooth headset on.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

I find the digital hooey pretty awesome. And, it adds amazing redundancy. We have the Garmin installed, a hand held garmin, tablet and everyone's phones. Paper charts in the chart table also. All of the android devices have Navionics. I can be sleeping in my bunk and look at my phone to see where we are, etc. I have a Nexus Multi display as well to see anything else, but Navionics on the phone is pretty sweet. Having it in my sunglasses will be even more sweet.



smackdaddy said:


> I will only use these if they make the glasses big enough so I can paste my paper charts to the inside of the lens.
> 
> All this digital hooey will just get you killed.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

At some point, you really might just as well stay home where it is safe and comfortable and play a video game.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

vega1860 said:


> At some point, you really might just as well stay home where it is safe and comfortable and play a video game.


Like a sailing simulator game?

Regards,
Brad


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## ronspiker (Jun 27, 2001)

I could see using them when going into an unfamiliar place. Basically have the active depth readings overlaid on the chart. The only problem is visual overload. You would have teach yourself to see past and possibly ignore the google glass image. The other good thing would be as you are approaching the marina you could enquire where the best Margarita is...


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## DJR351 (Mar 3, 2010)

kwaltersmi said:


> I can just imagine watching a regatta and seeing all the skippers wearing their Google Glass...reminding me of the people in the malls who walk around with a bluetooth headset on.


My first thought was seeing skippers with the Bluetooth headset on one side and Google Glass on the other, maybe they could offer a combined headset......

Wouldn't that be great, you could be safely navigating around the race course and talking to your stock broker all at the same time, without ever having to take your hands off the helm.......multitasking yeah!


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

vega1860 said:


> At some point, you really might just as well stay home where it is safe and comfortable and play a video game.


That's right, because being able to see a chart plotter due to the glasses on your head rather than the screen mounted on your boat makes someone so much less a capable sailor 

I tried to refrain from responding to all the snarky _"just go play computer games"_ posts, but this one finally got to me. Google Glass is not going to trim the sails for you, is not going to make it any easier on the tiller in a squall, it's not going to make better decisions about when to leave port, it's not going to decide for you when to tack, it's not going to tell you when to reef the main or fly the kite, etc.

_None_ of the skills I consider crucial to being a good sailor are replaced (in whole or in part) by having access to the same things we already do today by fishing the mobile phone out of our pocket.

It's just a display with voice recognition - that's it. The actual "sailing" component of what we do is completely unchanged by wearing this... it's just an expensive & less capable alternative to _some_ of what Raymarine already offers... just perhaps a little easier to see and maybe taking a picture of the dolphin's off the port box will just be that little bit quicker and easier. Autopilots and engines (you know, those things we've had for several *decades* now) have magnitudes more affect on how folks sail their boats than Glass could ever have.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Get it to cure sea sickness and you've got a winner.
John


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

BentSailor said:


> That's right, because being able to see a chart plotter due to the glasses on your head rather than the screen mounted on your boat makes someone so much less a capable sailor
> 
> I tried to refrain from responding to all the snarky _"just go play computer games"_ posts, but this one finally got to me. Google Glass is not going to trim the sails for you, is not going to make it any easier on the tiller in a squall, it's not going to make better decisions about when to leave port, it's not going to decide for you when to tack, it's not going to tell you when to reef the main or fly the kite, etc.
> 
> ...


You seem to be so anxious to defend your technology that you forgot to read the first three words of my post - "At some point..."


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

brad, if you think gglass will just be a HUD or extra data source, you're missing the boat. As the virtual reality apps and overlays come out for these things, a whole new world opens up. Before there was a Google, folks were talking about using these for aircraft maintenance, i.e. look at an engine and the schematics, part numbers, fault overlays, all come up and tell the mechanic what has been serviced, what needs service, what tools to grab, etc.

Now take that to sailing. Look at your sail, which of course has draft strips on it. OLD America's Cup technology shoots the video of those stripes to a computer, where they are compared with optimal stripe position to match up the sail draft. You gglasses will tell you "trim the ----haul, dummy!" and overlay the stripes in red to indicate wrong position, green to indicate properly trimmed. Or whatever.

Seen the graphics on the America's Cup this year? All the funny current arrows and "smoke" in and on the water? That's all the stuff that gglasses can and will do, assuming you want to pay for it.

Oh, and when you glance down at your engine, or the breaker panel? That's right, they'll nag you to change the oil and check the fuel and water tanks, too.

This stuff has the potential to be Jiminy Cricket on your shoulder. Except, of course, Google is behind it and Google are a flock of irresponsible schoolboys who never quite bother finishing any project, much less correcting the flaws that thousands of customers report year after year. On this one, I might hold out for the Apple iEye implementation, or their marine grade iAyeEye, although of course, that will only work if you buy an iBoat to use with it. <WEG>


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

vega1860 said:


> You seem to be so anxious to defend your technology that you forgot to read the first three words of my post - "At some point..."


First, it's not *my* technology. It's Google's. I don't even think it'd be that useful myself when compared to the cost and risk of breaking/losing it _and said that in this thread _

Second, I was clear in stating that my response was being held back from a _multitude of posts_ expressing similar sentiments. Yours was simply the one that got to me in the end. Consider it the straw that broke the camel's back.

Finally, if you weren't referring to Google Glass, why post it in here? Obviously your sentiments are somewhat related to what it offers or what folks want to use it for... or your post would be off-topic right? Whether or not you prefixed your post with _"At some point..."_ or _"My pappy used to say..."_, this thread is about Google Glass and it's use in sailing - you shouldn't blame folks for assuming a post in the thread is about the subject it's discussing 



hellosailor said:


> Except, of course, Google is behind it and Google are a flock of irresponsible schoolboys who never quite bother finishing any project, much less correcting the flaws that thousands of customers report year after year.


Except, like Apple, Google only provide the platform. It's up to application developers from other companies to furnish you with apps meeting your custom & niche requirements. I reckon blaming Google for not crafting an app that makes Glass useful to sailors is like blaming Raymarine for not making devices that help me spell-check my documents. It's not their market and not their goal to meet the requirements of everyone on the planet


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't blame Google for not crafting an app. They certainly WILL craft apps of some kind, the same way that they've crafted, ergh, hacked together, Google Maps. Or did you mean, not crafting the apps they've kludged? I do blame them for not _finely crafting _those products they've released. The actual art of craftsmanship seems to be well beyond their abilities.

In case you haven't noticed, Google Maps _is _an app, and every iteration grows better at directing Google "members" to Google advertisers, which better monetizes the "free" app to make profits for Google.

They *will* surely monetize gglasses the same way.

For instance, when you pan past your engine, and the gglasses flash to remind you "Time to change the oil!" you'll be offered a discrete list of Google advertisers who have paid (outbid each other, too) for the words "OIL CHANGE" and when you wink at one of them, you'll be given the chance to buy oil. And, Google will get paid for serving the ad to you.

Or...Maybe not. Maybe Amazon is offering you free movies, in exchange for rooting your gglasses so that they can take you to the Amazon Store instead. Note that Google also provides a cell phone OS, and Google sets the terms that allow it to be locked down in various ways by various vendors, excluding as they please.

I only mentioned what a couple of companies can do. I made no judgments on how or whether any of them could or would go into the application business, but with the exclusive AppleOS and the exclusive Apple Store sanction, and Apple's express dictates as to what may or may not be offered (and let's not forget, Apple Maps, which is an application from Apple) who knows where these things will go?

The phrase "war" comes to mind. Virtual reality will provide the option to monetize everything you see and say, much more so and much more granularly than anything we've seen yet.

Look, up at the horizon! Land ho! And the marina ads and prices will be flashing in the corner of your eye, while you're still a half hour out. If your icebox is low, the grocery store may even have a launch and rental car waiting for you, along with a discount on dinner reservations.

Yes, it IS going to get that intimate and intrusive, it is only a matter of when, not if. And someone is going to monetize every step of it. Which could be a good thing, or a bad thing. Regardless of who is behind it.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

hello sailor very well put!

just to add to that line of thinking look at how ads on your computer pop up based on your ip location...when I travel it changes based on what I do and search based on that current location...

I have political ads poping up on sailnet from different parties of el salvador...Im sure you guys get ads that pertain to your area

cant imagine how it would feel like to have all that bombardment of PAID publicity as an AID to navigation...its all money with a little aid dressed up as gglasses or whatever they want to call it


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

We'll have one app that superimposes buoys and daymarks on the water, even in heavy fog. With realtime updates of course. And another that grabs the wx and your choice of predictions, to tell you what's coming up ahead and, of course, reminding you (you did buy the polar integration option, didn't you?) when it is time to reef the sails.

Fantasy? No more than "You'll have your exact position and a hemisphere of charts, all in real time, in a thing the size of a paperback book" would have sounded to Thor Heyrdahl.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

I disagree with some of the opinion expressed, but that's neither here nor there. I will address something that is factually incorrect though...



hellosailor said:


> Note that Google also provides a cell phone OS, and Google sets the terms that allow it to be locked down in various ways by various vendors, excluding as they please.


Google open-sourced their Android platform in a way that prevents _no vendor at all_ from customising it how they wish, by using the Apache license terms. There is nothing in those terms allowing Google to exclude vendors they don't like.

The only "terms" they set extra conditions on are on what must be available if the vendor wants to use Google's trademarks. I can (and have) downloaded, customised, and used the Android OS for a custom project, legally and without once needing to go to Google for permission. It's not setup that way.

Does Google want to monetize their efforts? Sure. They do that by providing convenient built-in services to the platform so that vendors don't have to do it themselves. If the vendor wants to exclude Google from making money from Android, they can and have done so already - just look at what Amazon did with Kindle.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> cant imagine how it would feel like to have all that bombardment of PAID publicity as an AID to navigation...its all money with a little aid dressed up as gglasses or whatever they want to call it


You mean you cannot stand the advertising used to support the free services you are taking advantage of? What a burden! I suggest if you ever get Google Glass, you pay for the software you want ad-free then 

Google Glass is just a display/interface technology. That's it. I'd understand all the anxiety if Raymarine had set a precedent for popping up advertising in their bought and paid for chart-plotters. I even have the Australian NAVIONICS charts on my stock-standard Android tablet. It doesn't pop-up any advertising whilst using it.

Why is it people think that adding a display attached to glasses is going to suddenly make these people embed advertising in applications they don't now? Serious question.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bent-
Google licenses each version of Android according to a license agreement that is posted on the web when the OS is made available. Each vendor locks down their phone in various ways, i.e. if you buy an AT&T or a Verizon there are some apps that are on it which cannot be removed or disabled without rooting the phone, which some phone makers make damn near impossible. Unless you buy a "developers edition" you're buying a locked and modified OS, and Google is quite happy with this, no matter what they say.

There are also some interesting comments in some of the Android forums questioning why virtually all of the Android phones on the US market have been modified, by removing some of the standard Android functions, to make call recording virtually inmpossible. Removing standard functions that way is supposedly a violation that terminates the license to use the OS, and no one seems to know how or why it is being done in the US market and only in the US market. But, it is being done. Google of course has no comment on the matter, and no way to ask about it unless you mail them a letter.

They're also less than transparent about other policy matters. If you want to back up your Google Contacts so you can use them offline on a PC? There's no mention of how to do that. But if you discuss that topic on gmail accounts, you'll mysteriously get a message inviting you to use Google TakeAway (TakeOut? whatever they are calling it) which allows for local archiving of all your Google online data, usually the next day!

Of course you'd never need to store your contacts locally on a PC...but I found the online contacts were not available for a while the other day, the page could not be reached.

The "do no evil" guys have their own secret agendas. Ignore the man behind the curtain, at your own peril.

"Google Glass is just a display/interface technology."
More accurate to say it is ONE VENDOR'S IMPLEMENTATION of that technology, and that one vendor has a reputation for monetizing the hell out of everything they offer. If they don't monetize this one, it can only mean ...no wait, it _can't _happen that way. If Mother Teresa and Saint George physically bound and gagged Sergei and beat him with rubber truncheons, he'd still find a way to monetize it.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

How can anyone be opposed to having this technology available? No one is going to make you wear or even buy these glasses if you don't want them. But We live in an awesome age in an awesome civilization. I would love to be able to look at a port and have a bunch of ads pop up telling me what there is to do there. Where can I catch the game? Any nice romantic spot to take my lady? Where is the closest grocery store? Very cool. Raw bar happy hour? Let's go.

And, again, the Navionics android charts are the coolest thing. For a few bucks, I can have US and Canada. This is exactly what we want to happen to sailing to make it affordable for everyone. Just like fiberglass did. 

Google maps is the best value of any app I have. A really good product for free. Who can complain about that? If you don't like it, but something else. 

Google deserves the money they make. How about this. I can find out anything I ever wanted to know about anything in just a few seconds. No Dewey decimal system, no card catalog, nothing. Just great information. Or, I can go to one of their other products, Youtube, and find out how to do just about anything worth doing. What is not to like?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

BentSailor said:


> You mean you cannot stand the advertising used to support the free services you are taking advantage of? What a burden! I suggest if you ever get Google Glass, you pay for the software you want ad-free then
> 
> Google Glass is just a display/interface technology. That's it. I'd understand all the anxiety if Raymarine had set a precedent for popping up advertising in their bought and paid for chart-plotters. I even have the Australian NAVIONICS charts on my stock-standard Android tablet. It doesn't pop-up any advertising whilst using it.
> 
> Why is it people think that adding a display attached to glasses is going to suddenly make these people embed advertising in applications they don't now? Serious question.


very true...its on free stuff you get all this crap...however my point was not that. I do beleive that there will be publiicity at one point...I mean think about it

like hello sailor says(and I dont agree on everything he says but most) what if yu are interfaced using this helmet, to internet, navigation software etc...

you dont think a smart fellow at one of the software companies is gonna say hey you know what we can get some places to advertise on here...

so your out coming back into port when all of a sudden instead of simple tactics and navigation aids YOU ALSO GET ads...if it didnt happen this way id be surprised thats all Im saying...

im not a technology hater at all btw...if I was racing I would have no issue being interfaced with all sorts of ways to better my performance, but notice how even die hard technology users sometimes forget all the gadgets

lance armstrong a bad example I know sometimes went racing with no coms or computers or anything...bare bones, didnt want to know speed nothing...why? he felt he wanted to be free sometimes

you dont think a die hard racer will have the same gutural feeling at one point either? we are not machines YET...

my issue is with the dufus at the marina who thinks he is ben ainslie and will eventually be the first dufus to ram his boat in another one or onto a dock restaurant, or run some poor kayaker over cause he was so into his helmet cam and so distracted by all the info he "needs" that he couldnt do stuff correctly.

cause you know like we all know that ONCE ITS FOR SALE

there is no stopping the gazillion wannabes from buying it...

my issue is not attacking the technology or the aids, or the navigation software its what it produces in people as a result...

I agree with you...its bad to generalize...but you know it will just happen...and like others on here there is nothing more stupid than being all wired in when doing simple stuff like sailing for example...

this technology is already present, motorcyclists have similar aids in their wifi helmets and bluetooth coms etc...the debate is exactly the same

sometimes all we need is a motor and a helmet and the free wind in our hair...simplicity!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

jzk said:


> How can anyone be opposed to having this technology available? No one is going to make you wear or even buy these glasses if you don't want them. But We live in an awesome age in an awesome civilization. I would love to be able to look at a port and have a bunch of ads pop up telling me what there is to do there. Where can I catch the game? Any nice romantic spot to take my lady? Where is the closest grocery store? Very cool. Raw bar happy hour? Let's go.
> 
> And, again, the Navionics android charts are the coolest thing. For a few bucks, I can have US and Canada. This is exactly what we want to happen to sailing to make it affordable for everyone. Just like fiberglass did.
> 
> ...


funny how I can completely agree with this 100 percent no questions asked

I guess my better argument would be that if I had a choice I would love to always explore and do things in a more traditional manner...riding a bike or motorcycle or sailing...you know even turn off the vhf and simply be on the lookout

but if I had the choice and it was viable and economical and just an aid..I wouldny mind coming into port and searching for a nice tapas bar or wine bar to settle into without all the aggravation of looking for parking or buses etc...

especially if I were constrained by time...

I should see the positives more I guess

carry on!

oh but there is this...just to ruffle some feathers...the price you pay for googling stuff while free is that people who want to know what you are doing and searching know EVERYTHING...so while free its naive to think it doesnt come at a certain price...ignoring this is your easiest option! jajaja


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Google licenses each version of Android according to a license agreement that is posted on the web when the OS is made available.


Yes, and that license is the standard open-source Apache license. Amazon used the Android OS, stripped out all the Google apps they didn't want, added their own in, and not only was it legal but Google said that the freedom for others to do with the OS what they wanted was precisely why they made it open-source in the first place.

I develop apps on the platform for a living, both for their monetised PlayStore and for projects Google will not (& cannot) make money from *ever*. It's not like I'm new to this subject. 



hellosailor said:


> Each vendor locks down their phone in various ways...


So you have a problem with the actions of *phone vendors*, not Google.



hellosailor said:


> Removing standard functions that way is supposedly a violation that terminates the license to use the OS, and no one seems to know how or why it is being done in the US market and only in the US market. But, it is being done. Google of course has no comment on the matter, and no way to ask about it unless you mail them a letter.


I suggest you look into the license again. The Apache license in no way prohibits people from changing or removing functionality. The ability to alter it any way you want *by definition* includes removing things you don't want. In giving everyone that freedom, it includes giving that freedom to vendors who want to make more money from their phones.

Just as one shouldn't mistake what Compaq, Dell, or Hewlett Packard package into their computers for being Microsoft's responsibility, one shouldn't be blaming Google for the fact the Verizon, Sony, etc package things onto their phones.



hellosailor said:


> They're also less than transparent about other policy matters. If you want to back up your Google Contacts so you can use them offline on a PC? There's no mention of how to do that.


No mention is not the same as not being able to or, as you are implying, being forbidden from doing so for free. More importantly, Google cannot tell you how to do this on all phones because vendors can (& do) add their own contacts management applications to the device.

When the service/application is purely Google's (such as GMail), they freely provide the information you desire. When the service/application is from a different vendor, it's up to them (not Google) to provide the information. I have a variety of devices on my desk here and the only ones that have the exact same Contacts application are the ones from the same *phone vendor*.

Oh yeah, and the devices that Google itself makes/markets directly? They clearly tell you how to import, export, and share your contacts from them 



hellosailor said:


> But if you discuss that topic on gmail accounts, you'll mysteriously get a message inviting you to use Google TakeAway (TakeOut? whatever they are calling it) which allows for local archiving of all your Google online data, usually the next day!


You mean the free services that you were using were searched in accordance to the license agreement you voluntarily accepted in order to use them? Shock! 



hellosailor said:


> Of course you'd never need to store your contacts locally on a PC...but I found the online contacts were not available for a while the other day, the page could not be reached.


See my link earlier. If the contacts were stored solely in Google's GMail database or are on a device Google makes/markets - you have access to them. If they are stored in some *other vendor*'s application, you might want to complain to them about it... or just use one of the hundreds of free apps that can get it from the phone for you.



hellosailor said:


> The "do no evil" guys have their own secret agendas. Ignore the man behind the curtain, at your own peril.


Absolutely. Of course, just because you believe someone to have a particular secret agenda doesn't mean they have it either.



hellosailor said:


> More accurate to say it is ONE VENDOR'S IMPLEMENTATION of that technology, and that one vendor has a reputation for monetizing the hell out of everything they offer.


Yup, and that vendor has released a few devices now that don't popup advertisements in the middle of using applications you paid for. I use the NAVIONICS chart app on the Google Nexus. Guess what hasn't happened *once* in the time I've been using it? That's right, no pop-up advertisements. 



hellosailor said:


> If they don't monetize this one, it can only mean ...no wait, it _can't _happen that way. If Mother Teresa and Saint George physically bound and gagged Sergei and beat him with rubber truncheons, he'd still find a way to monetize it.


You know how most companies monetize devices they sell? They make you pay for them *at the time of purchase*. It's how Google monetizes their existing devices (though they do hope for, though cannot force, your use their monetized services). Do you think there is a chance they might do so with new ones... you know, just to shake things up? :laugher

I'm not saying Google are making Glass devices for the good of mankind or that they don't expect that selling it will drive people to use the services that they DO advertise through. What I'm saying is that the advertising that pays for the _free services_ you use is not a compulsory aspect of using Glass itself anymore than it is compulsory to see advertising on your PC just because you have an Internet connection.

If you *choose* to use free services then, yeah, you'll probably get advertising as a consequence. If, like I have with NAVIONICS charts, you choose to use a purchased product, Google isn't going to be overlaying their advertising on that paid-for app. They don't now and, to my knowledge, I haven't seen an Android device that does.

The open-source Android OS for Glass is already available for folks to play with. Just like the open-source alternatives to the vendor Android distributions, there will be free versions for Glass as well.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Now, honestly, while I do love to chat about topics like this (it's my bread and butter after all), I think we can leave it in this thread as agreeing to disagree on Google's future decisions.

If you want to continue the discussion via PM (leaving this thread to folks that couldn't care less about Android, licenses, and vendor contracts), I'm *more* than happy to, but I'm not going into depth (again) on the subject here.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jzk said:


> How can anyone be opposed to having this technology available? No one is going to make you wear or even buy these glasses if you don't want them. But We live in an awesome age in an awesome civilization. I would love to be able to look at a port and have a bunch of ads pop up telling me what there is to do there. Where can I catch the game? Any nice romantic spot to take my lady? Where is the closest grocery store? Very cool. Raw bar happy hour? Let's go.


Ah, yes... Just a matter of time before we live in an Awesome Age completely devoid of one of my favorite aspects of exploring the world under sail, and travel in general...

Namely, _SERENDIPITY_...

I know, that stuff's for romantics, or dinosaurs... 



jzk said:


> Google deserves the money they make. How about this. I can find out anything I ever wanted to know about anything in just a few seconds.
> 
> Or, I can go to one of their other products, Youtube, and find out how to do just about anything worth doing.


Well, you may _think_ you can...

However, you would be sadly mistaken...


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Ah, yes... Just a matter of time before we live in an Awesome Age completely devoid of one of my favorite aspects of exploring the world under sail, and travel in general...
> 
> Namely, _SERENDIPITY_...


OK, this may seem an odd question to you, but how exactly is technology like this going to rob you of your serendipity?

I like being disconnected when on the water too. I get enough phone calls, text message, Facebook alerts, etc in the office - I don't need them when sailing. So I simply switch my phone to airplane mode. Apps can't get to the Internet, the Internet can't get to me, and no-one can get a call or message to me until I want it... but my charts, GPS, and camera on it work just fine.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"So you have a problem with the actions of phone vendors, not Google. "
No, I'm talking about the android licenses, not the Apache license. Google is actually obligated to terminate the licenses of the violators, or under federal law they are considered to have abandoned the license and then no one has to follow it at all. That's the way these things go.
Since the vendors (cellcos) are playing coy and claiming they didn't remove the code, and the phone makers claim they didn't remove it either...It should fall upon Google to terminate the licenses in order to stop the coy games. Which incidentally make life harder for developers like you, when the OS is _secretly _crippled by vendors.

Not enforcing license terms is just plain sloppy, if not stupid. Look at the Samsung/Apple suits and others, and ask yourself, what corporation really wants to see their licenses voided and given freely to the competition? It is a sign that no one is paying attention to the details.

Last year there was a nooze bit about the town of Sunrise, Florida. W/NW of Fort Liquordale and home to a major league sports stadium. Apparently Google Maps was sending people to Tampa (4 hours away) when they asked for directions to Sunrise, and the mayor of Sunrise claimed he had been trying to get that corrected for TWO YEARS but no one at Google would respond.

No one harmed? Granted it takes a whole other kind of fool to not notice there's something wrong with those directions, and it is arguably better than the folks who supposedly perished in the Australian desert from the Apple Maps errors, but still? Two years, and there's no one being paid to just answer the phone or email?

Oink oink? Or just schoolboy dumb? No one at Google is minding the wheel. Even take a look at Google Calendar, an application that is part of the Android OS package. Did anyone at Google ever look at the grandfather of all PIMs? The Palm Desktop used on the Palm Treo, which started this all?

On a Treo, I can set a recurring appointment for every 3 weeks. On Google Calendar? Nope. I can't set a recurring appointment for every 3 weeks, or 21 days. After all these years, there's just no option. A ten year obsolete OS beats them, hands down. wtf? Would that really be a major coding job? Could learning history, learning the competition?

Sure, Google has earned every penny they've made. Sure, they're geniuses. And as the folks at child welfare would say, they are also "Persons In Need of Supervision."

Adult supervision.

Palm pissed away a market leadership. Blackberry did the same. Google? Yeah, there's a long list of corporations that haven't lasted very long, and juggernauts aren't exempt from that list.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Couple of days ago I replied to this thread in a negative way and I apologize for that . Technology is a wonderful thing , and of coarse we do with it want we want . A lot of people here have been making some really good points , like sail shape . Google Glass I'm sure will be a hit with the racing types as long as it will be legal, and will eventually trickle down to the cruisers. I wonder what they are saying over at Sailing Anarchy . Their motto is Sailing Anarchy Where The Statusque Blows .


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> No, I'm talking about the android licenses, not the Apache license. Google is actually obligated to terminate the licenses of the violators, or under federal law they are considered to have abandoned the license and then no one has to follow it at all. That's the way these things go.


Um, no. Just no. That's simply wrong on the facts.

If you want to go into detail about this, we can take it to Off-Topic or PM (depending on how public you want/need the discussion), but let's not bog down a thread about a device & it's (potential) *use in sailing* with a completely *non-sailing*-related debate about the difference between contracts & licenses, the legal doctrine of laches, and how Android is distributed. We can also bring all your other non-sailing related gripes about Google over too if you need to go over them


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Here is the thing. This stuff is optional. You can make use of it whenever you like, or you can turn it off whenever you like. No one can make you Google anything.

And you don't need to utilize the vast resources available on youtube. If you want to learn how to do something, you are free to do it the old fashioned way. But here is the genius of the youtube business plan. Google pays people to post how-to videos (or any videos). So you can bet, if it can be taught, it is probably on youtube or soon to be. Want to learn how to trim your main better? Youtube. Change the timing belt on your 1982 1/2 honda accord? youtube. Sweat your pipes? Bleed your diesel? winterize your boat? change your oil? The only thing not on youtube is how to do heart surgery, but that is probably not too far out.



JonEisberg said:


> Ah, yes... Just a matter of time before we live in an Awesome Age completely devoid of one of my favorite aspects of exploring the world under sail, and travel in general...
> 
> Namely, _SERENDIPITY_...
> 
> ...


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## ronspiker (Jun 27, 2001)

jzk said:


> Here is the thing. This stuff is optional. You can make use of it whenever you like, or you can turn it off whenever you like. No one can make you Google anything.


Like anything else Google Glass will be a tool. You can use it if you want to or need to. Its not like it would be an implant that you can't turn off, at least not yet..

Its like all the other electronics out there, can you sail without it? Sure, Will it be helpful? In some cases. Will you have to use it? No. Its a tool.


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## daydream sailor (Mar 12, 2012)

PEEPERS PARADISE:- this is just another tool for perverts watch and see what's coming o lot of people would have their pics end up on the net, no camera in the restrooms you say, or the gym bathroom?


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

ronspiker said:


> Like anything else Google Glass will be a tool. You can use it if you want to or need to. Its not like it would be an implant that you can't turn off, at least not yet..
> 
> Its like all the other electronics out there, can you sail without it? Sure, Will it be helpful? In some cases. Will you have to use it? No. Its a tool.


Yep, just like a sextant is a tool. Might not be all that easy to take a noon sight whilst wearing Google Glasses though.

It'd be cool if you could just look at the sun and have the Glasses work out a LOP from there.. oh, wait, maybe not!


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

daydream sailor said:


> PEEPERS PARADISE:- this is just another tool for perverts watch and see what's coming o lot of people would have their pics end up on the net, no camera in the restrooms you say, or the gym bathroom?


You do realise that there are cheaper, more inconspicuous, and easily available cameras for this already right? What's more likely to arouse your suspicions walking into a restroom? This guy?








or this one (with this in his shirt)?









Peepers don't want you to see the camera... making Google Glass a pretty bad option for them.


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## okapi3 (Apr 14, 2007)

The reason I sail is to get away from stuff like this. I'm a sailor, not a fighter pilot.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

Bene505 said:


> ... Coming into harbor just now we had a tug boat coming the other way in a narrow-ish channel. My 'Glass showed it was the 'Lasy Susan' about to spin my world around. Indeed, the AIS prediction had it passing very close to me in 2 minutes and 20 seconds. I stared at the words 'Lazy Susan' on the Glass and then winked. VFH went live, with his ID already dialed in.
> 
> "Lazy Susan, this is the sailing vessel Rag Dryer, off your bow", I said.
> 
> ...


Brad, I wish my experience was a good one like yours. But my Google Glass tale is one of disaster and woe... There I was, sailing into the channel on my return, when all of a sudden-

I had just brought down the sails and gotten them secured a few minutes ago. Turning into the channel we were taking wind on the port beam, not a big deal but I had to keep correcting steerage to port just a little because of shallow water to stbd and a rocky jetty. I wasn't making full RPM and I swore I was hearing an intermittant rattle. Tapped the 'Glass and diagnostics looked okay. Temp was good, good coolant level, oil pressure looked good.... but that rattle- and we just weren't making the headway I expected.

Tide was running out, so that accounted for the loss of headway, but that rattle- what the heck was it? Eye Blink to bring up engine diagnostics again. Quick snap of my neck to flip to the next screen. nothing. Quick Snap. nothing there. Quick Snap. "DO YOU WANT TO UPGRADE TO THE FULL VERSION OF "app" ?

Dammit! Quick shake of my head. "NO!"

the box closes.

Next box "Limited Time Offer: Sale on Diesel Parts! click now to save $$$, order today to get it by Tuesday with Super Saver Shipping"

Dammit! "NO!" I shout and shake my head violently

Alarm sounds in my ear. "ALARM CHECK!" I shout. The Alarms screen pops up. DEPTH ALARM: MINIMUM DEPTH

I look up and the wind has caused us to drift stbd so I course correct. But I see a hundred yards ahead that a tug pushing barges has rounded the bend and is coming at me. Why didn't AIS give an alarm?!

I tap my 'Glass. That stupid popup is there asking if I want to buy diesel parts. I clear the popup.

ALARM! GONG GONG GONG GONG GONG GONG The "US NAVY GENERAL QUARTERS alarm ringtone I had selected for my alarm sound was an obvious poor choice right now.

"Alarm check!" I shout to the continuous GONG GONG GONG GONG GONG that is pulverizing my brain by the second.

The Alarm screen pops up. AIS ALARM: MV RUSTY BUCKET : COLLISION WARNING

Damn popup! How long has this alarm been blocked by the popup?

"Radio!" I shout

The Radio App comes up, tuned to 16. Great.

POPUP: THERE IS AN UPDATE AVAILABLE FOR RADIO APP. WOULD YOU LIKE TO UPDATE 'RADIO APP' FOR .99 ?

"NO! CLOSE! CLEAR!" I shout while shaking my head side to side to close the app, trying to focus my vision through the head shaking as I frantically scramble to find a course that will clear the barges and still allow me room so that I don't get pushed up on the jetties by his wake.

My wife is screaming now because she has just come up from below and sees what is going on.

I throw my 'Glass across the cockpit because the popup is blocking one of my eyes and the alarm sound in my ear is driving my crazy.

My son picks up my Google Glass and puts it on. He sees the popup and begins tapping the side of the glasses. He somehow brings up my list of previously visited internet sites and blinks.

BOW-CHICKA-BOWWW-NOOOOWWWWW WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA

Mom looks over at Junior who is wide-eyed- mouth gaping, and he's got both arms stretched out in front of him, with both hands squeezing the virtual Charmin.

So, there I was- threading the needle with my wife beating me across the head and shoulders with my West Marine collapsible boat hook screaming like a banshee, Junior over there learning way too much too soon about the birds and the bees, well the birds mostly.... and me trying to save our lives because I got us into this mess worrying about my engine.

Thanks, Google Glass.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

bow chika wow wow

you just know at some point in time people are going be walking down the street watching full on porn like nothing then asking for a latte at the coffee shop while talking about the market etc whike in the corner of their eye all sorts of stuff is going on that would normally overload your senses to the max

but since we will be so "evolutioned" by then multitasking like this will be so easy nobody will even care

this reminds me of the funny sketch of conan obriens old show

"in the year 2000" where all sorts of ridiculous inventions, theories and scenarios where brought up to make people laugh...the sad part is so many of the things are becoming true

tis life


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

ShoalFinder said:


> But my Google Glass tale is one of disaster and woe...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I don't get why people keep talking about popups and advertising. None of this happens in Navionics or any other sailing apps for iPad or Android, why do you think they would on sailing apps for Google Glass?


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Marketing.

Googleglass is expensive. People who buy gglass have deep pockets. We here at Acme Widgets want to pick those pockets. Popups generate sales. Therefore, popups on gglass.

...unless you subscribe to the special-edition ad-free app, only $19.99 per month.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

manatee said:


> Googleglass is expensive. People who buy gglass have deep pockets. We here at Acme Widgets want to pick those pockets. Popups generate sales. Therefore, popups on gglass.
> 
> ...unless you subscribe to the special-edition ad-free app, only $19.99 per month.


I still don't get it.

iPads are also expensive, but Navionics has never given me a popup and purchasing it was a one-time cost, not $19.99 per month.

A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between free apps and pay apps. If you're using an app or website for free, then you're not the consumer, you're the product. If it's free then you should expect popups and marketing and distractions.

If it's a pay app, then you are the consumer and it is reasonable to expect to be free of marketing. None of the sailing apps I've purchased blast me with marketing or popups. I expect it will be the same for any apps purchased on Google Glass.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

I suspect some of us are just having a little luddite fun. I wish I could find a cartoon I saw years ago. The gist of it goes like this:

Airliner cockpit, interior view from behind pilots, we see out the windshield they are on final approach & nearing the ground; both pilots are staring, horrified, at the instrument panel displaying this message:

"Your trial period of 'Glass Cockpit, Mk IV' has expired. To continue using this software suite, please enter your Customer I.D. code and credit card information. Thank you for using 'Glass Cockpit'.
Have a nice day."


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

ShoalFinder said:


> Thanks, Google Glass.


Well, lesson learned - you get what you pay for. Next time you want to rely on safety, you won't choose the 'free' apps which are paid for through making *you* the product sold to advertisers 

I'm sure, in the real world, you wouldn't rely on free apps to keep your family safe, I know I wouldn't, so I cannot imagine such a tale would unfold for you 



Minnesail said:


> I don't get why people keep talking about popups and advertising. None of this happens in Navionics or any other sailing apps for iPad or Android, why do you think they would on sailing apps for Google Glass?


They wouldn't. We won't and we've been selling mapping applications since the second iPhone (i.e. when they started embedding GPS in the phones).


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah Im just playing around...having fun a bit

sorry


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

It's cool. Fun _should_ be had in this topic.


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## captflood (Jan 1, 2011)

GREETINGS EARTHLING : With all this Tecno stuff and information the chances of people sailing the navigation instuments instead of just SAILING THE BOAT how many accidents are caused by over-reliance on instrumantation instead of keeping a look out ? 
AS ALWAYS GO SAFE


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I posted something to that effect a few pages back and have seen it happen, however keeping the fun in this thread Ill let it pass... jajajaja

over reliance on anything is a recipe for disaster...as sailors we should have redundant and alternate systems to help us when we need it...


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> over reliance on anything is a recipe for disaster...as sailors we should have redundant and alternate systems to help us when we need it...


I agree. I imagine anyone relying solely on Google Glass is going to be considered as foolish as those that rely solely on a chart-plotter mounted on their boat.

That some idiots will rely too much on a tool doesn't make the tool bad for the task. Just because one shouldn't use a hammer for every job around the home doesn't mean it hasn't a place in the toolbox. Chart plotters are very useful, Glass could be as well (if way too expensive for me to give them a whirl in that role!).


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

bent I think that sums up my opinion and thoughts on the matter too, almost to the T...

mechanics and engine builders always say there is a tool for every job and I agree, the same applies to systems on a boat to a lesser extent if you will...

in the end we just need to be ALERT, on the lookout and always prepared for the worst case scenario...

if that means having gglass as a backup or something else as a backup to gglass then I think you are fine...and wish you happy sailing...

if your some dufus with just an iphone no vhf, or gps, or horn, or signal or nav lights and expect your iphone will do everything for you including wipe your ass that is where I draw the line and say no...you are wrong! 

cheers to all

christian


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Bentsailor said:


> Chart plotters are very useful, Glass could be as well (if way too expensive for me to give them a whirl in that role!).


Maybe sailnetters should volunteer to beta-test gglass sailing apps for Google.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

manatee said:


> Maybe sailnetters should volunteer to beta-test gglass sailing apps for Google.


Some POV footage of a family sailing, dolphins off the port bow, &/or racing downwind with the chute up. Overlay that with basic wind/compass info from the boats NMEA feed shown neatly in the display. I could see Google marketing that in their advertising. Not for us mind you, but just due to the cool factor it would add to the perceived "utility" of Glass.

If I thought it stood a snowflake's chance in hell of being approved, I'd be all over that!


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

They might be coming, I won't be buying. What's next? Don't get me wrong, technology has it's ups and downs. This is an absolute thumbs down for me. I'll never own any such thing.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Dave_E said:


> They might be coming, I won't be buying. What's next? Don't get me wrong, technology has it's ups and downs. This is an absolute thumbs down for me. I'll never own any such thing.


"RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED."

~+~ Locutus of Borg ~+~


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Dave_E said:


> They might be coming, I won't be buying. What's next? Don't get me wrong, technology has it's ups and downs. This is an absolute thumbs down for me. I'll never own any such thing.


Sure you won't!









(Sorry, slow afternoon at work.)


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajajajajaja NICE...!


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

VERY GOOD!!! OUTSTANDING. I looked at the large picture and said... "wait a minute, that's me". Excellent work!


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Of course it doesn't stop with Google Glass.. In the news today is where it seems this is all heading:

Sony files patent for 'SmartWig'

Good news for those of us with gravity-affected hair-lines.. but can see just fine.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Finally found it: xkcd: Insight


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minne-
While "adware" is not universal and ads don't just happen...Yet. There is a point to be made that 20 or 30 years ago, there was no adware at all, was there? McAfee really opened up new territory, by using personal word-of-mouth to get viral corporate licensing and sales. And somewhere along the way...folks added adware into the mix. Adware is now a norm, although AFAIK there is always an ad-free paid version, who is to say THAT state of affairs will continue? 
Consider if you will Gmail, or Google Voice. All the data is mined, even the information in the Google Contacts, which are integrated into the Android OS, goes to Google. And bearing in mind that Google have proven, time and time again, to be "Persons in Need of Supervision" (as the child welfare folks say)....Think carefully about who GGlass belongs to. Who is going to determine how it works, and whether you'll be able to run it at all without some type of advertising, or subscription, or....You and I have little to no chance of figuring out what it might become.
Like, when the internet was young, did you really have any concept of how it would revolutionize the porn business ?! Did anyone? Except the folks who got incredibly rich from it? Or, the Google paradigm itself? What, give away the search engine, give away the telephone, and make money by targeting ads to the rubes ?!
Incredible riches, from simple changes we'd never think of. And these are the folks behind Google Glass. In their own way, just as unyielding as the folks at Apple, who have different rules but still unbending rules all the same.
We can debate how much better or worse AppleInYourEye is, after they figure out a way to get past the patents and start shipping that one.

But as anyone who has used a typical Android device can tell you...Androids are infamous for going out to lunch. For freezing up, queuing keystrokes, coming back when they please, and finding ways to almost make us wish we had Apples. (VBG) 

As Will Rogers said, "The only good silicon life form is a dead silicon life form."
No, really, he said that. Honest. (G)


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> While "adware" is not universal and ads don't just happen...Yet. There is a point to be made that 20 or 30 years ago, there was no adware at all, was there?


You are right, on the internet there was no adware 20 or 30 years ago. It's a battle of pernicious marketing and consumer backlash.

But there certainly were ad-supported services 20 and 30 years ago. Broadcast television. Radio. I personally started an ad-supported newspaper 20 years ago, and sold it. It's still going, still a free newspaper supported by ads.

But there is backlash. I pay $35 a year for an email address that is non-commercial. I subscribe to HBO and Showtime and Netflix so I can watch TV without ads. Just last weekend I paid twenty-freaking-dollars a ticket to see Catching Fire on an IMAX screen. That's a lot of money, but it was an IMAX screen and there were *no* ads before the movie.

So yeah, I can picture a Google Glass app that uses the left third of your eyeball to advertise everything under the sun. But I can also imagine that that would pi$$ enough people off that they'd be willing to pay Navionics (or whomever) $50 for a similar app that didn't ad at them.

And the battle goes on....


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Adware is now a norm, although AFAIK there is always an ad-free paid version, who is to say THAT state of affairs will continue?


How about the developers of those applications stating that this is the way it will continue... you know, like myself. For an authoritative opinion on what a developer intends to do with their software, it's often far better to ask them than to consider what some random dude on an Internet forum thinks. 



hellosailor said:


> But as anyone who has used a typical Android device can tell you...Androids are infamous for going out to lunch. For freezing up, queuing keystrokes, coming back when they please, and finding ways to almost make us wish we had Apples. (VBG)


Sure, some devices running the Android OS do that just like some PC's running Windows or Linux will suffer from inadequate resources and make you wish you had simply remained in Apple's walled garden. That's not the fault of the OS though, but the underlying hardware.

Trust me, as someone _who actually develops applications on/for Windows Mobile, Android, and iOS platforms_ - Android is the one making best use of the resources on offer. When it comes to getting the best performance out of limited hardware - I can get more out of the Android OS than it's two competitors.

You want to believe that Google will break their long-standing practices when it comes to devices bearing their brand, and that's fine. That doesn't make it right, that doesn't make it consistent with existing practice, and that doesn't change the fact that GGlass (I like the nick - I'll be using it from now on) does not force advertising at this point in time.

With it's operating system being open-source, should it ever become Google's practice to force advertising on their developers (you know, contrary to logic, standard business practice, and providing Apple a game-winning free kick against the platform) - the requirement will be removed by developers such as the guys at CynogenMod.


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## oysterman23 (Jul 22, 2011)

Splash cssssssshhht sssssssT CALLING POMONA po.ona do you read?(second wave) silence......


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Does anyone here own a pair? Both the hype and the hyperbole might be premature, I understand from people who do own a pair of Google Glass that they just don't really work that well. The only use they get out of them is showing them to other people, really.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

emcentar said:


> Does anyone here own a pair? Both the hype and the hyperbole might be premature, I understand from people who do own a pair of Google Glass that they just don't really work that well. The only use they get out of them is showing them to other people, really.


Waiting for the special water-resistant-to-20-meters 'Sailing Edition, MK II' with polarized, enhanced-UVA/UVB-protection lenses.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Minnesail said:


> You are right, on the internet there was no adware 20 or 30 years ago. It's a battle of pernicious marketing and consumer backlash.
> 
> But there certainly were ad-supported services 20 and 30 years ago. Broadcast television. Radio. I personally started an ad-supported newspaper 20 years ago, and sold it. It's still going, still a free newspaper supported by ads.
> 
> ...


I remember using Net Zero 15 years ago. Adds paid for internet access. so it has been around longer than Google. Of course that was back in dialup days, and had 14,400 modem at the time.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

In the theme of asking the developers what they will, won't, can, & cannot do on the device...
No Ads on Google Glass


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Woman (employed by google I guess ) driving in San Diego was.pulled over for speeding and was also ticketed for wearing her google glasses, it appears wearing these while driving is a distraction much like texting or having a video player going.

She is fighting the ticket saying she did not have them turned on............yeah right


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

pappy, the san diego case has got nothing to do with "distractions" which generally aren't illegal. Specifically the officer cited her for something like watching a tv or video display, which is against cali code, and the appeal will revolve around whether gglasses are or aren't the same thing as watching a dvd while you're driving. If her glasses were off, then it is the same thing as having a dvd player in the car--which is perfectly legal in the front seat when it is off.

Cali police and highway patrol are somewhat notorious for their enforcement of cali's many rather extreme motor vehicle issues. And cops in general are rather sadly known for being grossly misinformed about what the laws really are or aren't. Or at least, pretending that they were just misinformed when they knew damn well up front that they were wrong.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Actually distraction does have something to do with it according to Ca traffic law. According to the ticketing officer the glasses were on while she was driving. The woman said they were off and when she turned her head to look at the officer they turned on. (Wake mode).

The issue is they are a video device which is not allowed in the driver view by law (except for nav devices) if every time you move your head or eyes to look over your shoulder, rear view mirror or even your passenger and they activate, they are a distraction

Ialso read that lawmakers are already trying to ban them while operating a motor vehicle


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Personally, I can understand the need to have a law that prevents people from reading texts, watching videos, etc whilst driving. Got no problem with GGlass being included under such laws either.

That said, the dispute still seems to revolve around _"was the GGlass device on or off whilst driving"_. From what I can tell, the law does not prevent displays from being in view - just using them whilst driving (otherwise one could never mount their phone on their dash, for example).

GGlass might have a law/regulation passed in the future that prohibits them from being worn (and I can easily see this), but at the time of the incident - it would appear that the case will be decided based on the credibility of her testimony the device wasn't on. Not that wearing it is prohibited.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

FWIW, after a spate of accidents down here recently (one in particular on the Monash where a female car driver was killed by a truck), I've heard that the powers-that-be are considering banning even hands-free phone calls - ie. driver's phone off and in the glove box. The effect that would have on cars/car makers selling in-built Bluetooth hands-free systems can only be imagined.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Classic30 said:


> FWIW, after a spate of accidents down here recently (one in particular on the Monash where a female car driver was killed by a truck), I've heard that the powers-that-be are considering banning even hands-free phone calls. The effect that would have on cars/car makers selling in-built Bluetooth hands-free systems can only be imagined.


Won't happen. Even the coroner who would like to see it implemented (_activist judge!_ ) acknowledged it would be difficult (to impossible) to enforce such a change to the law. I've not heard anything more than the coroner's opinion making the rounds either - not even the usual politicians selling a "quick fix". Interested to see who they are if so.

More importantly, talking on the phone is no more distracting than talking to someone in the car, both are conversations taking part of your attention from the road and with the phone the instinct to make eye contact is removed from the equation.

Too hard to police, too many cars with features built specifically to break the law on the roads, and no practical difference between it and talking to someone in the back seat. Combine that with the rarity of accidents that can be attributed to hands-free (as opposed to the large number that were connected to texting-whilst-driving), and you get something the politicians will not wear the heat to implement.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Of course there's the subtle (ha) distinction between what is and what isn't a distraction, and how the laws do or don't enumerate what will or won't be a distraction.

Kids in the back seat?

Passenger bitching about their problems?

Office, please, you can't run your computer or respond to dispatch on your radio--that's a distraction too.

Distraction? Gotta remove the car radio, the headlights, and thank god that so many drivers already have the good sense to ignore their highbeams and turn signals, all that stuff can _really _be distracting.

The sad bottom line is that the average US driver couldn't pass a licene test in Germany, France, or Finland, among other places. But then again, something like 1:8 US drivers doesn't have a license now anyway. (The numbers vary from about 1:4 in Florida to 1:12 in some better places.)

Maybe...maybe....gee, maybe we should just get the amateurs off the road? And make parallel parking while on a cell phone part of the road test? T-turn while breaking up the kids in the back seat?


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## seafrontiersman (Mar 2, 2009)

Why do I need this gizmo on a cruising vessel?


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## skelmir (Jul 18, 2011)

So when you are unsure what to do in a particular meeting situation you could say: "Ok Glass, Google COLREGS". Or better yet you could say it over the VHF and the "offending" boater would be presented with info on COLREGS in his/her Glass.

Just be careful not to integrate any actual boat functions with your Google Glass or it might be too tempting to say "Ok Glass, Release Windlass" over the VHF. But of course your anchor shouldn't just hang from the windlass ...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> Of course there's the subtle (ha) distinction between what is and what isn't a distraction, and how the laws do or don't enumerate what will or won't be a distraction.
> 
> Kids in the back seat?
> 
> ...


if you think drivers are bad there, DO not drive down here...somalia is better as there are less cars!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Ok, now I feel like a total tool as it would appear the "general sailing related thread" has turned into a "no cellphones" thread, and I happened to waste my life away in all the responses to this point.

I personally hate cellphones, but if you were to ban them completely (and you can't), these same poor drivers would be crashing while changing radio stations.

As for Google Glass, I could see a future where the device would be EXTREMELY helpful. Imagine a low light (sunset?) departure. Hard to see the marks on the horizon (light pollution stinks). The glass highlights the viewfinder to point general direction to channel marks. THIS is why a cruiser might like it! Layout a virtual yellow brick road to depart upon, through the channel. Interface with AIS? Sweet! VHF, using some kind of bluetooth like interface? Sweet!

Polarized version? Looks like they had a sunglasses version (for the cost the damned things should be at least a transitions lens)... 

As far as android being "unstable" or "full of ads." Apparently your iWhatever was never in the hands of your kids. My daughters iPod Touch is a plethora of bad advertising in lieu of paid applications. Advertising like Bent said is a way to pay for apps people wouldn't normally waste money on! You get what you pay for, always applies. For the record Navioncs crashed my iphone 4 on a regular basis... ran like a top on my Droid Razr MAXX... depends on what else you run on the device, its NOT all about the platform sometimes.

A decent overlay navigation application integrated into sunglasses (or better) polarized sunglasses would be a COOL app for such a device. To NOT see the future applications of such a powerful heads up wearable display is frankly wrong headed.

ONLY a true TOOL would rely soley on any device/computer... But then morons drive off of non-existent bridges (that are out for construction) in cars blindly following their NEVER UPDATED GPS. Seems to happen more often than anyone would care to admit. They are usually the same people though that never use their turn signals, and ignore other rights of way, once a tool always a tool.

What seems to be voiced here are the typical... Turn that damned noise off, and only a true sailor can sail with nothing other than wind and waves (implied shoe strings, and cardboard for boat I guess)... That reality is we rely on technology daily for everything we do... For instance, are you aware that a closed system computer is in NEARLY every car... Except for those of you folks still driving Model A Fords of course (and one of you wise akers will say you do, probably bought it new too).

I am an IT Manager by trade, and hate technology for what it turns people INTO. I am NOT against using technology, and relying on it when I deem it suitable for such application. NO way would I rely solely on 1 device no matter how reliable for my life, without some reasonable fail-safe or redundancy (again I run corporate networks, backups, fail safes, and redundancies are the name of the game).

Google glass has lots of potential. It's not quite there yet, but I'm interested enough to have put in for a request to try it. I think we are years away from something truly useful from it, but the potential is certainly there.

Hats off to you developers though... Very little reward for LOTS of sweat and time, for little pay. Sure it could pay off in spades, but rarely does.

Using the device for racing? I could see it quickly getting written into racing rules to now allow it if one person exploits it correctly. But if you look at the technology in software like "Sailing Tactician," and "Navionics" or some of the canned devices like are available for race telemetry (Tack-Tick race master for example), you will quickly realize THAT market would be ideal for something like glass. On top of that the entry point (price wise) would be cheaper (at least until you outfit the whole crew).

Just my worthless $0.02 now I've sufficiently wasted YOUR time... I feel justified in having wasted mine on this.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

BentSailor said:


> More importantly, talking on the phone is no more distracting than talking to someone in the car, both are conversations taking part of your attention from the road and with the phone the instinct to make eye contact is removed from the equation.


This intuitively makes sense, but it's not what happens in reality according to a study by the University of Utah that's been replicated elsewhere.
Drivers Distracted More By Cell Phones Than By Passengers

"Drivers talking by cell phone drove significantly worse than drivers talking to passengers. The cell-phone users were more likely to drift in their lane, kept a greater distance between their car and the car in front, and were four times more likely to miss pulling off the highway at the rest area. Passenger conversation barely affected all three measures."

I've noticed this myself. I find it harder to pay proper attention to the road while I'm having a phone conversation than while talking to a passenger, even though my cell phone bluetooths into the car's stereo and a microphone in the rearview mirror.

This could tie in with sailing. You think you can take your eyes off all the gadgets and pay attention to your surroundings, but you might be more distracted than you realize.



christian.hess said:


> if you think drivers are bad there, DO not drive down here...somalia is better as there are less cars!


I hear you! I've never driven in El Salvador, but I have driven in your neighbor to the north, Guatemala, and yikes!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

beleive it or not guatemala is worse, busses there fall deep into the jungle from cliffs as they couldnt care less...

war does this to many countries...you get numb...

we need more peace

sorry for the thread derrail...about google glass...so you know Im not full of it..since Im passionate ABOUT music I dont even turn on the radio while driving...especially down here

sounds have a huge impact on concentration...ask that to any interrogation officer and theyll tell you!

cheers


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

SHNOOL said:


> Hats off to you developers though... Very little reward for LOTS of sweat and time, for little pay. Sure it could pay off in spades, but rarely does.


But it is *SO* much fun!

Anyone besides me remember Alan Alda doing a PBS show about computers in which some MIT geeks (and I mean that in the most admiring and complimentary way) had made their own wearable computers?


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I visited my parents over Thanksgiving and my dad gave me Esquire's Book of Boating, published in 1966. It has a section on the future of electronics in boating. I'll have to scan a couple bits and post in this thread.

It suggested that with a combination of a slide projector and a CRT screen you could have up to 80 charts ready for display at the helm. Imagine!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I find it harder to pay proper attention to the road while I'm having a phone conversation than while talking to a passenger,"
Maine, does this mean you need to get a cell phone holder that looks like a mannequin, complete with pretty frock and wig? You know, so you'd think you were talking to a passenger?

Or perhaps, it just means you need to spend less time with battery cycling and way more time _practicing _driving with a cell phone? Till you master that art?

It could be the cell phone is a problem simply because people are unpracticed and unfamiliar with it. Or, that they shouldn't be driving in any case. No, wait, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to use telephones in any case. (You know, these are the folks who wake you up with wrong numbers, and then redial you three more times because they KNOW they've got the right number.)


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> "I find it harder to pay proper attention to the road while I'm having a phone conversation than while talking to a passenger,"
> Maine, does this mean you need to get a cell phone holder that looks like a mannequin, complete with pretty frock and wig? You know, so you'd think you were talking to a passenger?


Uh, I believe it was me who said that, not MaineSail. (If I had known when signing up for SailNet that two of the most prolific posters go by MaineSail and Minnewaska I would not have chosen MinneSail for a screen name, but so it goes.)

Anyway, the point of the University of Utah study
Drivers Distracted More By Cell Phones Than By Passengers
Passenger and cell phone conversations in... [J Exp Psychol Appl. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI
is that passengers react to road and traffic conditions by slowing or stopping the pace of conversation, whereas the person on the other end of the phone does not.

"Drivers talking by cell phone drove significantly worse than drivers talking to passengers. The cell-phone users were more likely to drift in their lane, kept a greater distance between their car and the car in front, and were four times more likely to miss pulling off the highway at the rest area. Passenger conversation barely affected all three measures."

"Meanwhile, passengers took an active role in supporting the driver, often talking about surrounding traffic. That shared situational awareness could be helpful to the driver."


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> "I find it harder to pay proper attention to the road while I'm having a phone conversation than while talking to a passenger,"
> Maine, does this mean you need to get a cell phone holder that looks like a mannequin, complete with pretty frock and wig? You know, so you'd think you were talking to a passenger?
> 
> Or perhaps, it just means you need to spend less time with battery cycling and way more time _practicing _driving with a cell phone? Till you master that art?
> ...


Well I know I sure can just tune my wife out when sitting next to me in the car, but I can't tune my girlfriend out when on the phone! :laugher:laugher


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

miatapaul said:


> Well I know I sure can just tune my wife out when sitting next to me in the car, but I can't tune my girlfriend out when on the phone! :laugher:laugher


Hopefully your wife isn't there while you're talking to your girlfriend!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Minnesail said:


> Hopefully your wife isn't there while you're talking to your girlfriend!


Well that makes it extra distracting!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minne-
You know, you and Mainesail are dead ringers for each other on the web. I mean, unless I look at the title box, I can't tell whether I've got your webcam turned on or his. (WEG)

""Drivers talking by cell phone drove significantly worse than drivers talking to passengers." Yeah, that's the kind of _correlation _that too sadly gets passed off as _causative science _on the Nooze these days.

"Scientists discover water kills!" You can easily prove it, everyone who has ever drunk the stuff, has died. Gee....it must be toxic?

As for tuning out girlfriends, or tuning women in general...I don't think we're allowed to discuss that before 11PM in this forum. Well, maybe not even AFTER 11PM in THIS forum. (VBG)

All I know is that one long night a long time ago, I called a friend from my car on my cell phone and explained that the boredom was putting me to sleep, the conversation was anything BUT a distraction. When I'm on the cellphone in the car, it used to be an earbud or a built-in with speakerphone. Now it is a bt with speakerphone, and I still make the same conscious focus on the enemy (I've seen my name on their bumpers) and sometimes have to ask "What did you say?" or even "I'll call you back, I'm in traffic".

Then again, if you know how to fight your way through heavy metro traffic and yellow cabs, wtf is one more voice in the crowd? I still say the problem is not cell phones, it is folks who should not be allowed to drive.

I'm also in favor of having one day, say, the 4th of July, where all bets are off. No cops, no enforcement, get totally drunk and drive at twice the posted limit, have a good time. The survivors will be proof of Darwinian evolution, and the rest of us will be that much safer in the following year.

The same could be said for having a "Mandatory Drunk Powerboating and JetSkiiing Day". Once a year, let the herd thin itself.


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