# DWI or DUI. or BUI. BWI



## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

Can you get a DWI or BUI 
Driving while intoxicated or Boating while intoxicated what ever you want to call it while under sail power only. I haven't the slightest idea
I don't recommend it, but can't say I haven't done it

what is the law? Is it different in certain states or countries?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Don't know about other states but it certainly is against the law in Florida and quite actively policed.



> In Florida, boating drunk has strict consequences. It is against Florida law to operate a vessel while impaired by alcohol or drugs. Any operator suspected of boating under the influence must submit to a sobriety test and a chemical test to determine alcohol content.
> 
> Boating drunk and failing to comply with the sobriety exam can result in suspension of your license. Like other states and like DUI laws, there is a specific blood alcohol content level at which you are presumed to be drunk. In Florida, the blood alcohol level that declares that you are boating drunk is any level over .08%.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

While I don't know much about the law since I hardly drink. But if I see anyone drinking while boating, I will call the coast guard. 

This is just stupid, it has be stopped.


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## Jetexas (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes. The legal limit in most states in the US is .08 BAC, just like driving a car. In Texas, the person driving the boat cannot have an open container even if their BAC is under the limit.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

AFAIK, California law for boating and drinking essentially parallels that for driving and drinking. The exception being that "open container" laws are not applied to boats. I believe that BWI convictions also go on your driving record.


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

in Alabama you will get to see the Judge, Fair Winds


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I hear in Maryland it is Judge Dred. 

Anyone operating while under the influence is subject to the same penalties as a car here and they will take your motor vehicle liscence from you if found so.

If you NEED to drink. Anchor enjoy and sleep it off. We enjoy our red pinot...but anchored.

Dave


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

This is the law in NY
New York State has passed legislation to lower New York State's "Boating While Intoxicated" blood alcohol content (BAC) threshold from .10 percent to .08 percent. Under the law, a person found to have a BAC level of .08 or more while boating will lose the privilege to operate a boat for one year, and will also be subject to a fine of up to $500 and up to 90 days in jail. Under previous law, these penalties applied to the .10 BAC level.

New York State mandates a six-month suspension of operating privileges for the first finding of "Operating a vessel after having consumed alcohol;" and a suspension of one year or until the operator reaches the age of 21, whichever is greater, for a second or subsequent combination of consumed alcohol findings and/or alcohol-related convictions. 

==

I have never been drunk underway but I will have a beer or gin and tonic while underway.

Barry


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

I'll drink at anchor or in the marina, in the evening after a long day of sailing and playing. In Texas, during the summer...it's just way too hot to be drinking alcohol during the day....mess you up bad with dehydration and such. I drink large amounts of water and Gatorade in the heat and sweat like crazy. Once I'm done sailing and it cools off during the evening, some drinks are in order.

Texas BWI: (Texas Penal Code 49.01, 49.06)



> _Game Wardens and Marine Safety Enforcement Officers enforce the Boating While Intoxicated (BWI) law. A person who either appears to be impaired and/or has a blood alcohol level of 0.08 or higher while operating a boat can be arrested for BWI.
> A person arrested for BWI may be jailed for up to 180 days, be fined as much as $2,000 or both. Additionally, the person's drivers' license may be automatically suspended._


You have to be operating a watercraft with an engine of more than 50HP to lose your driver's license...so sailboaters are safe....unless you have one of those MacGregors.....


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Reminds me of years (and years) ago I got a PUI once...

Yep, Pedestrian Under the Influence....

(of course there was a Disorderly and a Resisting that went along with it... )


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

PA will take your driver's license away if they catch you BUI.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

In Maryland, the open container law does not apply to boaters. However, the BAC is .08 to be considered legally impaired, and upon conviction, the fine is pretty stiff.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Never understand why alcohol always associates with sport and boating. Can they get high with the passion of their sport. Why can they just get drunk in their home instead of in the public places doing stupid thing and disturbing others.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> In Maryland, the open container law does not apply to boaters. However, the BAC is .08 to be considered legally impaired, and *upon conviction, the fine is pretty stiff.*


Well... they should cut their balls off or levy 50% of the paycheck to the victim's fund for life. It is like if you break the law, you will suffer the rest of your life. Think twice before you drink. I guess I was not run for public office anytime soon.


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## helenwiley (Jan 1, 2006)

In Connecticut BWI is treated just like DWI and can result have driver's license revoked.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> Well... they should cut their balls off or levy 50% of the paycheck to the victim's fund for life. It is like if you break the law, you will suffer the rest of your life. Think twice before you drink. I guess I was not run for public office anytime soon.


Wow.... 

And what's your position on rock music, dancing, swearing and spitting in front of ladies...?


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## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

Pretty sure in NJ BWI is a DWI. I think you can even get a DWI for riding a bicycle drunk...


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Chadfunk48 said:


> Pretty sure in NJ BWI is a DWI. I think you can even get a DWI for riding a bicycle drunk...


Yup, from the state web site:

• When operating a boat in New Jersey you are subject to the same laws for a DUI/DWI or Refusal, as if you were operating a vehicle. You will be subject to being arrested and charged if you operate a boat while having a blood alcohol limit that is 0.08% or higher or if you are deemed to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
• The penalties for DWI while boating are the same as for DWI while driving. You are also under an obligation to give a breath sample and to submit to blood testing just as you would with driving a vehicle. Refusal to do so will also carry the same consequences. *Any license suspension imposed for boating will affect your driver's license, as well*.​
Twice now we've watched the water cops follow a boat up Forked River and take the operators off in cuffs. We assumed it was DUI. Ironically we were watching from the deck of the Captain's Inn 

Best to save the sundowners for sunset at anchor or the dock.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Canada



> Alcohol and Boating
> 
> Driving Under the Influence
> 
> ...


Impaired is not .08; it is ANY level of impairment.


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

Watched a guy get carted off for ROWING HIS DINGHY under the influence!! I guess if you're going to get shifted ashore it's best to swim back to the boat!! :laugher


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## SecondWindNC (Dec 29, 2008)

creedence623 said:


> Watched a guy get carted off for ROWING HIS DINGHY under the influence!! I guess if you're going to get shifted ashore it's best to swim back to the boat!! :laugher


OK now that's going overboard.


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

I think someone drinking and driving should be penalized. And in a sailboat under wind power only, well obviously your still a danger. But where does it end. I thought To get a BWI or DWI it had to be a motorized vehicle or else it was only public intoxication? What if I was in my sailboat, not anchored with no sails up in my cabin?


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

champlain94 said:


> I think someone drinking and driving should be penalized. And in a sailboat under wind power only, well obviously your still a danger. But where does it end. I thought To get a BWI or DWI it had to be a motorized vehicle or else it was only public intoxication? *What if I was in my sailboat, not anchored with no sails up in my cabin*?


I think that's called a hazard to navigation.


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

champlain94 said:


> And in a sailboat under wind power only, well obviously your still a danger....


I can't even imagine going forward to wrestle with my jib after 2.5 beers.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

champlain94 said:


> What if I was in my sailboat, not anchored with no sails up in my cabin?


Legally you are underway. Read Colregs.



> i | h) The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.


Navigation Rules Online


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Never understand why alcohol always associates with sport and boating. Can they get high with the passion of their sport. Why can they just get drunk in their home instead of in the public places doing stupid thing and disturbing others.


Dawg, You are a minority please don't become the vocal.
There is a huge difference between drinking and being drunk. I drink and since I am now 50+ It was a long time ago I actually got drunk and its not fun the next day. 
You must be a favorite with the coast guard or water police calling all the time you see someone with a drink in their hands.


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## benajah (Mar 28, 2011)

champlain94 said:


> I think someone drinking and driving should be penalized. And in a sailboat under wind power only, well obviously your still a danger. But where does it end. I thought To get a BWI or DWI it had to be a motorized vehicle or else it was only public intoxication? What if I was in my sailboat, not anchored with no sails up in my cabin?


I don't know, because I am only an average sailor, but I have a whole lot more control over my boat under power than sail. I can stop on a dime, turn regardless of the wind direction, etc. it seems to me that a boat under sail should be held to the same, if not higher, standards as a boat under power, since the skipper just does not have as much control as he would in a powered boat or a car. You have to plan ahead, think ahead.
I love to drink, love goofing off with my buddies, but alcohol has no place on my boat, period.


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## jgakers1 (Feb 23, 2011)

I have read about people getting a BUI while at anchor. I guess law enforcement take is that you are still in charge of a vessel even at anchor and must be able to have your wits about you if your anchor drags or there is a fire, etc while on board. I cannot personally vouch for this but have read about it in several places. You may want to check on it before you find yourself in trouble. Just thought I would pass it on. You can google BUI while at anchor and find some interesting reading on it.

Cheers
Greg


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

champlain94 said:


> I think someone drinking and driving should be penalized. And in a sailboat under wind power only, well obviously your still a danger. But where does it end. I thought To get a BWI or DWI it had to be a motorized vehicle or else it was only public intoxication? What if I was in my sailboat, not anchored with no sails up in my cabin?


As strange as it sounds, in Florida you can get a DUI on horseback, a bicycle, a Segway, or any number of modes of conveyance (it's likely the same for most states).

As for BAAUI (being at anchor under the influence [I can see that term catching on!]) I should imagine that if you manage to give the LEO a hard enough time, they WILL find a way to ruin your day. Whether it holds up in court or not is sort of irrelevant. I could see charges like that being thrown around at the Gasparilla Festival in Tampa (google it) or any other event where drunken a-holes congregate at anchor.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I like a drink as much as, if not more than, the next guy. But, I'm not interested in being drunk at the helm. Have you ever over powered a 40,000 lb boat? You better be nimble, she will toss you around like a rag doll. I'm also not good with 8 foot waves offshore when intoxicated, and we go offshore quite a bit. 

On the other hand, on calm days, I have no problem having a beer or two with lunch and sailing home. By the time we are underway after lunch, most of the BAC has likely been metabolized anyway. Certainly, I would not be near the legal limit. I do not drink at the helm and, thankfully, just don't have any desire to do so. There will be plenty of time for drinking later at anchor. And we do often catch up.........


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## bjung (Apr 8, 2009)

*Enjoying a beer vs. getting loaded*

How come everyone here confuses drinking with getting hammered? One can have a good amount of beer spaced out over a long day, and not feel the slightest intoxication. After all, it is 95.8% water. If enjoying a brew on board is going to mean having to watch out for fools that feel the urge to call the Coasties over a can of Bud Light, then sailing has gone to the dawgs... 
Also, this will be heard over the VHF all day long: "To the child playing on the VHF. Channel 16 is an international emergency and hailing channel. Please move your conversation to another working channel! "
Well, at least I hope that will be their response. They have better things to do, like fixing all the extinguished lights...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Teetotlers are not going to give an inch here. Easier to argue over anchors.

However, the Captain has a lot of responsibility that I think is incompatible with drinking while at the helm. That doesn't mean one must have a zero BAC.

One other thought. Don't you find you are less likely to feel intoxicated when drinking aboard? A beer or two and I don't notice a thing. In my living room, I might at least be able to tell, even if not inebriated. I don't know the reason for the phenomenon. Is it the stimulation around us, or the wind, exhaustion, dehydration,,etc that we are already accustom to? Those are also debilitating.

The point is, we are just as under the influence, whether one can tell or not. Just be careful out there.

Did anyone else see the study released this week on driving impairment? Talking on a cell phone, texting and eating while driving had multiple times more impairment than being at the legal BAC level. Eating was number one by far.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

"Honk if you Love Jesus"

"Text and Drive If you want to Meet Him"


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

While on the lake in NC I was "pulled over" while sailing my Chrysler C-22 and asked if I had been drinking and if we had alcohol aboard during a holiday weekend by the local sheriff's patrol boat. Seems there is also a limit of the amout of alcohol you can have aboard for the # of people you have.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm glad I only drink when I'm sailing by myself, or sailing with somebody. 

Bottom's Up!

Gary


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I don't get on airplanes or round Pt. Conception without a drink, don't know who you think you could call that would be interested in writing me a ticket 30 miles off Big Sur.
Aussies are lucky they got the convicts while we got stuck with the puritans.


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

One rule does not fit all circumstances. Whether I'm at the helm or not I'm still looking out for my passengers, usually family and the boat. Nice easy sail in uncroweded iconditions I'll have a beer every so often. When the weather is bad or I'm entering an unfamiliar or crowded harbor I won't. I'm talking sail boats here where you are only doing 5-6 knots under sail or power. A power boat is a different story, more like driving a car. Things happen too fast.


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

The older I get the more my Docter wants
To prescribe me this and that. Is there a law against sailing while taking pain medication
Vicoden, hydrocodone, oxy?


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

So what's the big deal about drinking while sailing? If Patrick O'Brien got it right, the Royal Navy conquered the world while everyone from the admiralty down to the unrated seaman were pretty snockered throughout the day, every day, even on battle day. 
Another statistic; the loss of eight hours of sleep impedes your function as much as .08% BAC does. 
We always save the beer and wine until the anchor is down or we are in the slip, but I see sober sailors sipping a brew while calmly sailing along. 
John


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

It's like refer madness but with alcohol! 

Please, Please, Please save me from myself oh wise and righteous internet people! And then beer me!


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SimonV said:


> Dawg, You are a minority please don't become the vocal.
> There is a huge difference between drinking and being drunk. I drink and since I am now 50+ It was a long time ago I actually got drunk and its not fun the next day.
> You must be a favorite with the coast guard or water police calling all the time you see someone with a drink in their hands.


I am not afraid of being a minority since i am too dame old.

I am sick of tired people using alcohol is as an excuse to be loud, vulgar, disrupting in public. I lat low and mind my own business; you can drink whatever you like, but don't let your bad side shown. It is just wrong.


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## lans0012 (Jul 16, 2008)

Enjoying a beverage while boating is one of the few freedoms we have left. I pray to Obama that I don't see rockdawg on the water. 

However, Drink responsibly and be prepared to be held legally, morally, and financially accountable for your actions. Just like you would be if you got somebody hurt or killed while sailing sober.


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## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

Believe all the states have adopted .08 BAC so as to align with USCG's .08 BAC limit in inland waters. 

"Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk."
-Sir Francis Chichester


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> Never understand why alcohol always associates with sport and boating. Can they get high with the passion of their sport. Why can they just get drunk in their home instead of in the public places doing stupid thing and disturbing others.


Unfortunately this has become an issue because people in the past have done stupid and irresponsible things. I personally see no reason one cannot have a bud light in the cup holder instead of a sprite. Do you drink 6 sprites in an afternoon? I dont, so the moderation rule would apply. Since some people cannot act in a responsible manner we get laws that force ALL of us to submit to more restriction s on our freedom.
Hey man, I bought a sailboat myself. I live on my boat and I should be able to enjoy a cold on while underway. Its not like I have a 200 hp mercury that zips me from A to B in 5 minutes. 
Since we cant all be responsible we all have to suffer.

Hey Dawg, I fail to see how my cup holders contents disturbs others? Also, calling the Coast Guard?
You lose someone to DUI or something? Harsh stance your taking there and in my opinion, unwarranted.

I know its hard to relax out there with a world full of crazies but were Sailors man. Hell, if were being historical drinking and sailing have gone together for over a thousand years!!!
Its when you start throwing big motors on large boats that move fast that this becomes a problem. If Im buzzing at least its a 5 knots and not 30!!!


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Keep in mind that if it were not for beer, none of us would be here today.    Don't think so? How Beer Saved the World | Watch Free Documentary Online

Enjoy,

Gary


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

I did not read all 5 pages and only read half the first page but I'm a Boarding Officer in the Coast Guard and for recreational vessels "any person having an essential role in navigation or control of propulsion" are subject to a Field Sobriety Test (FST) and a Chemical Breath Test (CBT). However there is no law for open containers. The federal Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) is 0.08% or if you are within a state jurisdictional waters we may enforce their BAC % if different. 

Most common Enforcement Action that will be taken at a USCG level is to issue a citation and turn the operation over to a SOBER, willing, capable adult who can prevent the intoxicated operator from regaining control of the vessel.
We don't want to detain and/or arrest you unless absolutely nessary. 

Also keep in mind. In most states if your are charged and found guility of a BUI you will also loose your state drivers license. 

Boat Responsibly my friends.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Great input SeaGull. Thanks.

I will repeat the point that it seems so much easier to drink more when on the water. I know we do at night on the hook. I don't know why. However, you will get to that 0.08 faster and will less awareness, given this phenomenon IMO.


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Great input SeaGull. Thanks.
> 
> I will repeat the point that it seems so much easier to drink more when on the water. I know we do at night on the hook. I don't know why. However, you will get to that 0.08 faster and will less awareness, given this phenomenon IMO.


Anytime, and most people forget to hydrate with WATER while on the water while having a few beers combine that with direct prolonged sun light and you'll start feeling a buzz much sooner and stronger then you thought. But I never get underway on my boat without some sort of alcohol, it's basically a requirement. Just take a closer look at my profile picture.


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

I'd also like to add that a BUI only applies to a vessel that is underway. if your on anchor, mooring, or dock you can basically get as drunk as you please. Just make sure to give yourself time for your BAC to drop before getting back underway. 
FYI It takes a average adult male 2 hours for their body to completely metabolize 1 beer. But that's bringing your BAC back to 0.00%


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Screaming Seagull said:


> ..... FYI It takes a average adult male 2 hours for their body to completely metabolize 1 beer. But that's bringing your BAC back to 0.00%


Precisely why I have little reservation in having a couple of beers with lunch (if not sailing home in the stink). By the time we get back aboard and prepare to castoff, mother nature has done her work.

These stats are, however, only averages and are based on 12oz beers with 4.5% alcohol. Many drafts come as 16 or sometimes 20+ ounces and micro brews are often 6+ %. You can supercharge without realizing it.

I had a land based experience last year, when we stoppoed for a quick bite. I ordered a rotating draft I hadn't heard of. Then another with my burger. We were relaxed after a long weekend, so decided to have one more before we went home to bed. When I got up to leave, I thought I was sick or something. It couldn't be the beer, I only had three. My wife drove home. The next morning, I looked the beer up. 9% alcohol content. The glasses at the tavern turn out to be 20 oz, but are deceivingly shaped, so do the math. That was the equivalent of 10 beers in about an hour. I was smashed.


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

The DUI/BUI laws at heart are pretty reasonable, it's how they get applied that are sometimes messed up. I mean, DUI on a horse or bicycle? Really?

Or my favorite is people getting a DUI for sleeping it off in a parked car that isn't running.


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

[QUOTE Best to save the sundowners for sunset at anchor or the dock.[/QUOTE]

As far as I know now, you can still get a BUI while at anchor. I was in Applegate cove last summer and it was fairly early in the season. NJSP drove by and just asked if I had the proper credentials and if I was drinking at all. I had admitted I had 2 beers with my dinner aboard but was staying until the next morning and had no intentions of moving. Then he asked " what if you need to move your vessel in an emergency ?". That being said I was informed you can no longer use the "at anchor" excuse and if found with a BAC over the legal limit your going to pay. There needs to be sober person at all times on a vessel at anchor or underway to avoid the penalty.


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

DivingOtter said:


> [QUOTE Best to save the sundowners for sunset at anchor or the dock.


As far as I know now, you can still get a BUI while at anchor. I was in Applegate cove last summer and it was fairly early in the season. NJSP drove by and just asked if I had the proper credentials and if I was drinking at all. I had admitted I had 2 beers with my dinner aboard but was staying until the next morning and had no intentions of moving. Then he asked " what if you need to move your vessel in an emergency ?". That being said I was informed you can no longer use the "at anchor" excuse and if found with a BAC over the legal limit your going to pay. There needs to be sober person at all times on a vessel at anchor or underway to avoid the penalty.[/QUOTE]

That sounds pretty crazy to me. I'm constantly amazed at how far laws are stretched. I'm sitting at home enjoying my second highball of the evening and likely to have a third. If my house catches fire and I have to go outside to get clear of the flames I'm now in danger of public intoxication. I understand and appreciate that we need laws to set limits but I think those boundaries can be pushed past the point of probability or reasonable likelihood.

I'm now curious if the folks living in countries other than the U.S. feel as though they are over-regulated when it comes to enjoying a few drinks at anchor?


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

DivingOtter said:


> As far as I know now, you can still get a BUI while at anchor. I was in Applegate cove last summer and it was fairly early in the season. NJSP drove by and just asked if I had the proper credentials and if I was drinking at all. I had admitted I had 2 beers with my dinner aboard but was staying until the next morning and had no intentions of moving. Then he asked " what if you need to move your vessel in an emergency ?". That being said I was informed you can no longer use the "at anchor" excuse and if found with a BAC over the legal limit your going to pay. There needs to be sober person at all times on a vessel at anchor or underway to avoid the penalty.


I think this officer was giving you a hard time or he didn't really know what he was talking about. I don't know NJ state law but I do know the Federal law. And it clearly states for who can be charged with a BUI is ..."Operator: Any person having an essential role in navigation or control of propulsion"... "operation for recreational vessels is defined as underway". Thus if your vessel is at anchor or on a dock by federal standards you can not be charged with BUI.


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

DivingOtter said:


> Then he asked " what if you need to move your vessel in an emergency ?".


I guess the legal response to this would be that you wouldn't move the boat. If there was an emergency you'd grab a life jacket, your EPRIB, jump overboard and wait for a rescue.

Avoid grabbing onto any debris if it floats by, it may be considered a water craft.

Of course this officer isn't interested in the correct law, he's likely just interested in asserting his authority. In which case the correct answer is "Gee, I hadn't thought about that officer. I guess this will be my last beer."


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Regardless of how the law is interpreted, while at anchor I appoint myself the "designated operator" and limit my consumption. An emergency doesn't necessarily have to be one on the boat. If an emergency occurs at home and we have to leave, one of us has to be able to get us back to the marina. I see no difference between doing this on the boat and how we handle ourselves when we go out in our car and alcohol is involved.


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## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

I think there is a big difference between driving somewhere that you know you must leave in a couple hours and being at anchor with plans to spend to the night... but if you don't feel comfortable enough to drink than that's ok too. 

I agree that one should always be prepared in the event of an unforseen emergency, but I use my own discretion to decide when I'll be spending the night and have a few drinks, or be on alert and ready for an emergency. Personally I cannot live while always thinking the worst is going to happen. 

Emeregency at home that I'd have to leave anchor for and drive home? That would be hours for me to get there so the house would be burned down, or flooded, or robbed by the time I got there so I guess there's not much point in over analyzing what I could have done if I was there. But if you're close to home and feel obligated to be on the ready than that is another story.


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## StoneAge (Sep 28, 2007)

Here in Belize, If there are laws, I don't think they are enforced. You still don't see crazies all the time and boating here is very fun. 

IF you were to crash into a reef however (Belize has the second largest barrier reef on the planet and they are VERY protective aboutit) the automatic fine is $10,000 AND you lose your boat. 

Whe we got our insurance for the car, we were told by the insurance guy that we were allowed to have 4 beer. I said "Pardon???" Yes, he said. You see folks driving around here all the time with a beer in their hand. Don't know what the accident rate is because of it. 

That's the way it is in Belize.. Have a sail down and get away from those oppressive Drunk While bicycling laws. Who in their right mind would give their name and information to a cop while riding a biciycle or scooter/moped (less than 49cc with pedals) If you don't need a license to do it, there is nothing LEGALLY they can do to you. Although you may have to prove that in a court of law after you get arrested. Plead the 5'th and SHUT UP!!! 

I do not endorse drunk driving, boating or any other motorized vehicle operation while intoxicated. It's just stupid. Moderation is the key. I like the laws here in Belize the way they are because here - you have to buy every kid you kill too. Are you ready to do that? Makes one think a little more when they do stuff. 

Happy sailing!!!
John 
Stone Age
Sanctuary, Belize.


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

The base laws are usually pretty reasonable. It's the court system that spins everything out of control. In the NJ example it really doesn't help if you're in the right if it'll cost you 20k in court to prove it.

The court system impacts every part of our society. Watched Gold Finger last night which had the below little high dive platform in the hotel swimming pool.










It made me remember how common high dives were when I was a kid. Now you rarely see a normal dive board at swimming pools.

Apparently life is dangerous, common sense doesn't exist and someone might get hurt and sue somebody about it.


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

I agree with all of the above, however, It isnt worth it to me to risk it. Yes I have beers while at anchor as does everyone but I dont allow myself to become intoxicated. I was speaking to another person yesterday who was out fishing and the CGA approach them asking if they had been drinking. No one was but he asked why? The rebuttle was that its illegal to have open containers on a vessel. He laughed and pointed to a party boat that is BYOB and said go tell that to them. After asking for their salt water license and credentials, then searching through their ice chest full of nothing but fish they left.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Dean101 said:


> As far as I know now, you can still get a BUI while at anchor. I was in Applegate cove last summer and it was fairly early in the season. NJSP drove by and just asked if I had the proper credentials and if I was drinking at all. I had admitted I had 2 beers with my dinner aboard but was staying until the next morning and had no intentions of moving. Then he asked " what if you need to move your vessel in an emergency ?". That being said I was informed you can no longer use the "at anchor" excuse and if found with a BAC over the legal limit your going to pay. There needs to be sober person at all times on a vessel at anchor or underway to avoid the penalty.


That's completely idiotic. Why would having an intoxicated person aboard a boat at anchor (who can't take care of an emergency) be worse than the boat that is at anchor with NOBODY aboard?

I had the coastguard try and give me a BUI once. The conversation went like this:
ME: "So are you seriously considering giving me a BUI for rowing my inflatable boat at under 1mph 10 yards from land?"
CG: "It's like the motorcycle helmet law. A large percentage of all boating accidents and drownings involve alcohol. Some laws are to protect you."
ME: "I see. What about this? I'm a rock climber. Sometimes I climb without a rope (a lie) which is obviously more dangerous than riding a motorcycle without a helmet. Why isn't that illegal?" 
CG: <blank stare from the ensign> Ensign goes below and returns with the sergeant who says: "So I understand you have some questions." 

Didn't end up with a BUI that day, blew under 0.08 but they WERE going to give me a BUI for rowing (floating really) my inflatable boat a few feet from shore while I was wearing my PFD (float coar) and had (on my person) a whistle, strobe, 5 flares, a submersible VHF, signal mirror, and dye marker.

At one point in my conversation I listed the above gear one by one and said, "I think this demonstrates that I don't take the issue of safety lightly, I just think that the rules of operating a craft while intoxicated were intended for the high speed boater who could do someone else harm, not the guy who's drifting at 1kt while surrounded by airbags."

The whole night generally went poorly for me, and the whole boarding took about 3 hours, (2 of which I spent in handcuffs even though I never threatened the 5 polite armed men) but in the end they had nothing. They even tried to fabricate charges claiming that I didn't have a whistle and tried to fine me $5,000 for it, but after a few angry letter exchanges with the district commander (never forget to CC your congressperson on such correspondences) it all died down and went away. I'm sure it might have been easier if I had been easier to deal with, but I don't take well to absurdity mixed with jingoist law enforcement, I just don't. 

MedSailor


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

I realize that this is an unpopular view with a lot of boaters...but seriously fark the coasties. Yes, I remember when they were actually in the business of not playing hard arse cop. They use to have courtesy inspections on the water, if you had a gig or two they told you to fix it and why it was important. I lived in Alaska were commercial boating is a very important financial endeavor. I have commercial fished and recreational boated. So I do "know" the value of life rescue. But those days are over....... I do not like having a .50 pointed at my person or my boat ever. I generally do not go around breaking laws....but these days it is gonna be hard not to be a lawbreaker......forget your whistle....that will cost ya......don't like your attitude...just asking to get nailed for disorderly. Film and record every contact you have with them.......call for the repeal of the fascist homeland insecurity law...which circumvents the constitution. Or do nothing and watch them restrict when and where in the US you can sail. Watch when your boaters "fees" climb to support these tactics.......Then you guys will cry.....History repeating itself..... Now according to you guys, I will adjust my tin foil hat and slink back to my cave.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Med, five flares in your inflatable? You should be institutionalized for OCD. I was proud that I have a four pack of pfds, in a bag, tied to a handgrip that is typically used as a seat. Other than that, I have nothing.

As you graciously admit, getting aggressive, even in tone, with the USCG will land you in cuffs. I understand it to a degree. If I was paid a wage below a school teacher to board unfamiliar boats, with aggressive occupants, who may or may not have a genuine reason to fear being arrested and possibly initiate violence, I would probably shoot someone.


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

AKscooter said:


> I realize that this is an unpopular view with a lot of boaters...but seriously fark the coasties. Yes, I remember when they were actually in the business of not playing hard arse cop. They use to have courtesy inspections on the water, if you had a gig or two they told you to fix it and why it was important. I lived in Alaska were commercial boating is a very important financial endeavor. I have commercial fished and recreational boated. So I do "know" the value of life rescue. But those days are over....... I do not like having a .50 pointed at my person or my boat ever. I generally do not go around breaking laws....but these days it is gonna be hard not to be a lawbreaker......forget your whistle....that will cost ya......don't like your attitude...just asking to get nailed for disorderly. Film and record every contact you have with them.......call for the repeal of the fascist homeland insecurity law...which circumvents the constitution. Or do nothing and watch them restrict when and where in the US you can sail. Watch when your boaters "fees" climb to support these tactics.......Then you guys will cry.....History repeating itself..... Now according to you guys, I will adjust my tin foil hat and slink back to my cave.


This +1


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## BreakAwayFL (Sep 20, 2010)

I've never had more than one drink at sea so far, I'll have a few once the sail is done and I'm in the slip or anchored.

That being said, if I was on a long sail over open water (not a coastal cruise) I could see that I might have two or three, but only in fair conditions over open water, and only in the daytime. But that's where it would stop. Drinking to the point of intoxication while skipper is irresponsible at best, and deadly at worst. Save it for when the day is done.


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## BreakAwayFL (Sep 20, 2010)

MarioG said:


> While on the lake in NC I was "pulled over" while sailing my Chrysler C-22 and asked if I had been drinking and if we had alcohol aboard during a holiday weekend by the local sheriff's patrol boat. Seems there is also a limit of the amout of alcohol you can have aboard for the # of people you have.


That had better not apply in FL! While we don't drink much underway, we have a VERY stocked liquor cabinet just waiting for us to drop anchor for the day...


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## BreakAwayFL (Sep 20, 2010)

AKscooter said:


> I realize that this is an unpopular view with a lot of boaters...but seriously fark the coasties. Yes, I remember when they were actually in the business of not playing hard arse cop. They use to have courtesy inspections on the water, if you had a gig or two they told you to fix it and why it was important. I lived in Alaska were commercial boating is a very important financial endeavor. I have commercial fished and recreational boated. So I do "know" the value of life rescue. But those days are over....... I do not like having a .50 pointed at my person or my boat ever. I generally do not go around breaking laws....but these days it is gonna be hard not to be a lawbreaker......forget your whistle....that will cost ya......don't like your attitude...just asking to get nailed for disorderly. Film and record every contact you have with them.......call for the repeal of the fascist homeland insecurity law...which circumvents the constitution. Or do nothing and watch them restrict when and where in the US you can sail. Watch when your boaters "fees" climb to support these tactics.......Then you guys will cry.....History repeating itself..... Now according to you guys, I will adjust my tin foil hat and slink back to my cave.


:hothead

Down here in South Florida, where the waters teem with enough boats to walk across the Caribbean, many of them operated by tourists and Canadians, many of them unskilled or partying too hard; we respect the men and women of the USCG. The greater majority of them are doing their best to protect the responsible majority from the idiotic minority.

Those people who "hassle" you over "minor" issues are still the same ones who will risk their lives for you 30 miles out in 30 foot seas with a gale wind blowing. Obey the law, stock your safety gear and check it at least once a year. If you don't like it, move the hell out of the country.


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## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

I've never been boarded by the CG while on the water, I have been boarded by the marine state police once. That officer was very polite and just seemed to be checking up and making sure we had our safety equipment and boating licences. 

I don't think you can lump the whole CG or any other law enforcement group toegether. There are many of them who do a great job and are friendly when they can be. I do, however, agree that there are those of them who are harda$$es just because they can be and like to flex their muscles. I think most people would agree this is true with most law enforcement officials be they police or sheriffs or whatever. Some are professionals and some are college dropouts who have something to prove.


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## meteuz (May 13, 2010)

I fully agree that the state has a mandate to protect people from the stupid actions of others, and zero tolerance for operating an automobile while intoxicated is easily justified: if you react one second too late you could easily kill someone. 

It is not quite the same in the case of someone getting in a rowboat after a couple of drinks. The worst he can do is hurt himself. Trying to save people from themselves is futile and any attempt to do that makes for a nanny state. 

Someone operating a sailboat other than a dinghy, something with significant mass, a motor, perhaps other people on board etc becomes a grey area. If they are loud and obnoxious or are otherwise making a fool of themselves I would be happy to see them get cited. On the other hand, if the CG is boarding people who are quietly and competently going about their own business, and giving them alcohol tests, it is going too far IMHO. Where can you go to be free if not to sea?


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Chadfunk48 said:


> I don't think you can lump the whole CG or any other law enforcement group toegether. There are many of them who do a great job and are friendly when they can be. I do, however, agree that there are those of them who are harda$$es just because they can be and like to flex their muscles. I think most people would agree this is true with most law enforcement officials be they police or sheriffs or whatever. Some are professionals and some are college dropouts who have something to prove.


I totally agree with this. I have been boarded since, twice, and both of the other times things went quite well. Of course, they weren't trying to give me a felony charge for having a beer while floating 10ft from land.....

I also agree with the above post about how they're the same people that will save your butt in 30ft seas. My big issue is this saving you from yourself crap and their ability to board anyone at will. To me the 4th amendment is designed to protect you from the type of boardings that they do daily. I would have no problem with them pulling me over if they had a REASON (like the highway patrol does) but I don't like that they can pull anyone they want over any time. I don't think our country is supposed to be like that. As long as the guys themselves are acting appropriately (and in my experience they usually are) I have no issue with them, I do take issue with the powers that have been granted them and with part of their mandate.

I wasn't too surprised that they cuffed me considering how jumpy they were and that it was only 9months after 911. On the other hand, I wasn't threatening them at all.... well perhaps I threatened the ensign intellectually a little. 

Miniwaska: As for all the gear, that was when I was much newer to boating and thought safety had more to do with what you carry than what's between your ears. The flares (and all the other gear actually fit in one pocket of the float coat. The VHF was a very small model. Also you can fit 5 of the orion pocket rocket flares in the original container, not just 3 like it comes with. Packs into a tube that is 1.25"x8" or so.










MedSailor


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

I must say that a $5000 fine for not having a whistle is totally ridiculous! A first offense DUI doesnt get that kind of fine. In Kentucky I believe it's a $50 fine for not wearing a seatbelt. There's a HUGE difference in not wearing a seatbelt at 70 mph speeds and not carrying a whistle which is only slightly louder than a pissed off teenager in my book! I have nothing but respect for people in uniform, CG, military, police, game wardens, you name it. They all have a tough job and constantly enter into situations that can turn deadly in an instant. I can understand the handcuffs mentioned if I look at it from the CG's point of view. I sparred a fellow in his 60's in my martial arts class and I wouldn't bet against him even with 3 trained fighters as opponents. Anything can happen in close quarters. 

I generally have no problem with law enforcement personnel checking me out. As mentioned earlier, most of them are professional, courtious, and reasonable. But I do have to partially agree with Scooter about what I think he was alluding to. The increasing legality of law enforcement to infringe into our personal rights regardless of the spirit and letter of the Constitution. Of course, the people pulling you over or boarding your vessel are not the ones that passed those laws into effect but they are the ones who are tasked with enforcing them and while most do it in as nice a way as possible, there will always be a few who want the world to know that THEY are in charge. I just try to remember that there are a few drivers and boaters who think the world revolves around them so it's not as if the CG are the only ones guilty of being jerks.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

DivingOtter said:


> I agree with all of the above, however, It isnt worth it to me to risk it. Yes I have beers while at anchor as does everyone but I dont allow myself to become intoxicated. I was speaking to another person yesterday who was out fishing and the *CGA *approach them asking if they had been drinking. No one was but he asked why? The rebuttle was that its illegal to have open containers on a vessel. He laughed and pointed to a party boat that is BYOB and said go tell that to them. After asking for their salt water license and credentials, then searching through their ice chest full of nothing but fish they left.


I'm assuming that CGA is Coast Guard Auxiliary..... which do NOT have the authority to board a vessel, much less search it (or your ice chest) Seems like there are a FEW wanna be folk in every organization.


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

sailordave said:


> I'm assuming that CGA is Coast Guard Auxiliary..... which do NOT have the authority to board a vessel, much less search it (or your ice chest) Seems like there are a FEW wanna be folk in every organization.


Yeah. Im not saying ALL of the CGA is a joke, but a majority are. Like volunteer firefighters in my area, they are more concerned with flea markets, fundraisers and bingo night and then sending 45, yes 45 firefighters to a toaster fire. the CGA around here when I offered my services as a volunter said " well, your not scuba certified so come back after you get that " and your going to need to pass a physical. Well here is my one from 2 months ago, NOPE! gotta meet CGA standards. I would have accepted that had an in shape individual made that statement and was not so condescending. Again, not saying ALL, but a majority are sadly.


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

BreakAwayFl.......according to a previous boater...you are breaking the law. No drinking period. If a 5k bill is a minor infraction to you then you could afford to hire a real captain to sail the boat. Your sense of entitlement is showing through nicely though and just proving another point. That you are creating your own fantasy scenario that does not reflect reality. Btw, long ago, I did move out the the US.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I will have a beer on a local cruise costal. I never drink on a passage. Makes the first anchor tie-up all that more enjoyable. I have kids and watch what I do.

Regarding giving me a ticket for being anchored and intoxicated (which I don't do anyways) - well, they would see me in court I'm afraid with a good attorney. At the point when they said what would happen if there was an emergency and I had to move my boat, I would have been a real smart Arse and said something really tacky. Wouldn't be the first time.

You know, I drink. I don't mind others that do. And quite candidly, as long as you are not operatin something that would hurt me or my family, I really couldn't care if you get blistering drunk if you don't keep me up at night. But the real crux for me is a bit about minding your own dam*** business. If I am (or you are) no threat to me or my family, you can go sniff aerosols for all I care. THen again, I am totally against the seat belt law and the helmet law except for kids. 

I just hate it when people know what is better for me than I do. That is why I love(d) boating - it is the last freaking place people can hopefully keep their hands out of my pie. 

Brian

PS I realy respect the USCG. They are awesome in my experience. Good people (crap, half of them are kids) that care. Only people I rub against are the local police and Fish and Wildlife. They are only there to collect money and flex muscles (with exceptions, don't mean to generalize). But I have been pulled over at 900 am, in a tender with an 80 year old man, both of us wearing life jackets, in a canal at idle speed for a 'Safety Check'. You could reach out and grab the shore. This was Florida Fish and Wildlife or the Sheriff... but think it was FFW. We got chided because the tags would be going (WOULD BE) going out at the end of the month and techically they expire at your birthday (the day before). I lost my temper, told them what I thought of it. I was unpleasant, but I got money and told them to write the ticket and screw off. Life goes on.

It was kinda funny afterwards though.


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

Ok people drinking on a boat is not illegal! As long as your BAC is below 0.08%. Trust me I know. You can have 1000 open containers on the deck and a beer in your hand just as long as your not .08. And it's not a set fine. That's up to the judge to decide..



Screaming Seagull said:


> I did not read all 5 pages and only read half the first page but I'm a Boarding Officer in the Coast Guard and for recreational vessels "any person having an essential role in navigation or control of propulsion" are subject to a Field Sobriety Test (FST) and a Chemical Breath Test (CBT). However there is no law for open containers. The federal Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) is 0.08% or if you are within a state jurisdictional waters we may enforce their BAC % if different.
> 
> Most common Enforcement Action that will be taken at a USCG level is to issue a citation and turn the operation over to a SOBER, willing, capable adult who can prevent the intoxicated operator from regaining control of the vessel.
> We don't want to detain and/or arrest you unless absolutely nessary.
> ...





Screaming Seagull said:


> I'd also like to add that a BUI only applies to a vessel that is underway. if your on anchor, mooring, or dock you can basically get as drunk as you please. Just make sure to give yourself time for your BAC to drop before getting back underway.
> FYI It takes a average adult male 2 hours for their body to completely metabolize 1 beer. But that's bringing your BAC back to 0.00%


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> That's completely idiotic. Why would having an intoxicated person aboard a boat at anchor (who can't take care of an emergency) be worse than the boat that is at anchor with NOBODY aboard?
> 
> I had the coastguard try and give me a BUI once. The conversation went like this:
> ME: "So are you seriously considering giving me a BUI for rowing my inflatable boat at under 1mph 10 yards from land?"
> ...


MedSailor, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with that boarding team. I promise we are not all like that. (Well at least I'm not). Unfortunately all it takes is a few bad people to make everyone else look bad. And I'm happy to hear that fine didn't stick.


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## Screaming Seagull (Feb 11, 2012)

Chadfunk48 said:


> I've never been boarded by the CG while on the water, I have been boarded by the marine state police once. That officer was very polite and just seemed to be checking up and making sure we had our safety equipment and boating licences.
> 
> I don't think you can lump the whole CG or any other law enforcement group toegether. There are many of them who do a great job and are friendly when they can be. I do, however, agree that there are those of them who are harda$$es just because they can be and like to flex their muscles. I think most people would agree this is true with most law enforcement officials be they police or sheriffs or whatever. Some are professionals and some are college dropouts who have something to prove.


Very true. every organization has "that guy" which makes everyone else look bad. And when someone has a bad experience they'll make sure to let everyone know. But if they had a good experience you'll most likely never hear about it.

When you run into "that guy" the best thing to do is shut up and do as they say. the more you try and be a smart ass the more it feeds and excites them and the more He/She will look for the little things to write you up for... soon enough they'll get bored and bother someone else like MedSailor. I've had to work with people like this and we hate them as much as you do.


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## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

I appreciate the candor - but I'm curious. When you run into a 'that guy' on the job, is there anything you can do to get rid of them, or do you just kind of wince and keep your mouth shut? Y'know, stay out of the way and try not to get involved and hope the problem just goes away.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

-OvO- said:


> I appreciate the candor - but I'm curious. When you run into a 'that guy' on the job, is there anything you can do to get rid of them, or do you just kind of wince and keep your mouth shut? Y'know, stay out of the way and try not to get involved and hope the problem just goes away.


In the US, I will be respectful depending on who I am dealing with. But I also have no problem standing my ground and taking a citation to make a point. All depends on what and who, etc. I never scream or get angry, but I can be a real smart arse (for those that know me on here, that comes as no surprise I am sure).

In a foreign country, I keep my pie hole shut.

THat's just me.

Brian


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## BreakAwayFL (Sep 20, 2010)

AKscooter said:


> BreakAwayFl.......according to a previous boater...you are breaking the law. No drinking period. If a 5k bill is a minor infraction to you then you could afford to hire a real captain to sail the boat. Your sense of entitlement is showing through nicely though and just proving another point. That you are creating your own fantasy scenario that does not reflect reality. Btw, long ago, I did move out the the US.


My sense of entitlement? Creating a fantasy scenario? I don't think you are referring my post, as I didn't create any scenario and I certainly feel no sense of entitlement other than being entitled to not being rammed into by drunk boaters. If you read the post I wrote and not someone elses, and actually think that, then I'm glad you're gone, as you obviously live in some bizarro world now where you are much happier .:laugher


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

DivingOtter said:


> Yeah. Im not saying ALL of the CGA is a joke, but a majority are. Like volunteer firefighters in my area, they are more concerned with flea markets, fundraisers and bingo night and then sending 45, yes 45 firefighters to a toaster fire. the CGA around here when I offered my services as a volunter said " well, your not scuba certified so come back after you get that " and your going to need to pass a physical. Well here is my one from 2 months ago, NOPE! gotta meet CGA standards. I would have accepted that had an in shape individual made that statement and was not so condescending. Again, not saying ALL, but a majority are sadly.


That's unfortunate that someone told you that because we do not dive as a part of our auxiliary duties and there is no physical fitness requirement unless you decide to become a crew member. Even then, for an auxiliary boat the physical fitness bar is low. A few auxiliarists in my flotilla did qualify to be part of the regular CG crew and they had to meet those physical fitness requirements but that's a whole different level.

Perhaps a majority in your local area, but not nationwide. The CG website clearly spells out the requirements for volunteering and they are the same across the country.


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

Perhaps a majority in your local area, but not nationwide. The CG website clearly spells out the requirements for volunteering and they are the same across the country.[/QUOTE]

While I know the regulations that state you dont need to be certified for a public service, he was extremely arrogant in telling me the awesome wrecks hes dove, then proceeded to say " have you ever dove a wreck in zero vis with a ripping current ? do you know what thats like? " I grabbed my keys and replied with " No.. But I do no what its like to salvage, weld, burn and assemble stuff in those conditions. " I decided to offer my volunteering elsewhere.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

DivingOtter said:


> Perhaps a majority in your local area, but not nationwide. The CG website clearly spells out the requirements for volunteering and they are the same across the country.


While I know the regulations that state you dont need to be certified for a public service, he was extremely arrogant in telling me the awesome wrecks hes dove, then proceeded to say " have you ever dove a wreck in zero vis with a ripping current ? do you know what thats like? " I grabbed my keys and replied with " No.. But I do no what its like to salvage, weld, burn and assemble stuff in those conditions. " I decided to offer my volunteering elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

Ah, don't let one jerk turn you off. My favorite saying is, "There's always one Ba***** in every crowd." Love the USCG and after boating since 1995, can honestly say I have never had a bad experience with them.

Now, Florida Fish and Wildlife... wait... no, I am not going to bring that up again! I'm am erasing that from my memory! Happy thoughts!! IT's Friday.

Brian


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

Flying back to the states in a few weeks, I wanna see how much trouble I can get into on this visit. Anyone remember "zero tolerance"? In Alaska caused quite a stir......seemed a "rogue" element of the law enforcement division of the much respected CG was carrying out "inspections" Your crew member holding an bag of weed? Well then....your commercial fishing season is gonna be disrupted. But please do carry on about how good judgement, common sense and law enforcement go together. I really love to laugh.... 

Also, my comments are not reflective of my beliefs or actions concerning boats, 
alcohol, weed, illegal substances, actions, thoughts etc. I really enjoy not being in jail.


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

Zero tolorance for drugs aboard a commercial vessel?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Drugs found aboard any commercial vessel will result in it being shut down--immediately. The captain could end up loosing his license as well. Random drug testing has been in place on all commercial fishing vessels for as long as I can remember, which is the way it should be.

Gary


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

Yeah that was very much a tongue in cheek reponse to the report of 'rogue' law enforcement agencies citing commercial vessels when drugs were found on board. Seems it would be a rogue agency that would overlook narcotics on a commercial vessel.


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

Add Content


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Screaming Seagull said:


> MedSailor, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with that boarding team. I promise we are not all like that. (Well at least I'm not). Unfortunately all it takes is a few bad people to make everyone else look bad. And I'm happy to hear that fine didn't stick.


I appreciate your comments and apology for them. I agree that what I experienced was a minority of what I expect to happen, in my other boardings since the CG officers were consummate professionals. Even in the first boarding where I was handcuffed I didn't think it was THAT out of line to do so, especially so soon after 9/11 when the whole country was so jumpy. The only real mistake they made, in my eyes, was not giving me any paperwork at the end of the boarding and then charging me with the 5K fine by mail instead of on the spot where I could clear up the misunderstanding. All's well that ends well though.

I'd have to agree with you other comment as well, that it's all about the 0.08. I had an open container, and they could have said I was intoxicated if they wanted to, but I blew into the machine, was under 0.08 and was let go.

It's nice to have the voice of someone who KNOWS the answer to this question here on Sailnet. Thanks for posting.

I still have one lingering question though. I've heard that you "can" arrest someone for BUI (but not a BWI) when they're BAC is less than 0.08 if they appear intoxicated. Have you ever seen that happen?

MedSailor


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> .......I've heard that you "can" arrest someone for BUI (but not a BWI) when they're BAC is less than 0.08 if they appear intoxicated. Have you ever seen that happen?
> 
> MedSailor


While I don't believe that RI has one, NY has a lower BAC consider "ability impaired", just like they do with driving a car. Have to be careful on Long Island side of the sound.

A drink or two and just about anyone would have enough BAC to be boating/driving with ability impaired. It is a violation, as opposed to boating/driving while intoxicated, which is a crime, but that is inconsequential when it comes to the penalties. You just wouldn't be put in jail.


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

Interesting the ignorance about drug testing. Anyone can pass a piss test for almost any drug 48-72 hours after stopping the drug. ....Even the idiots know this. Now pot will and can linger much much longer.....pot heads I do not care about.......meth oh yea......crack oh yea.....ETOH oh yea......it goes on and on...the ONLY thing drug testing does....is make YOU feel more secure.......and that is about as secure as TSA makes an airport. Keep being ignorant folks.....Instead of just making yourself feel good, thinking you are being a "positive" force. Get a real cop on here to talk about it.......btw my relatives included a federal judge, federal marshal and county sheriff. They do know what they are talking about. Yes drugs are rampant on commercial fishing vessels. So grow the h... up. Hit up dutch for a change in your cruising itinerary......Experience it first hand laddies. Or, heaven forbid become a medical professional...med tech, lab rat etc. and learn about basic, basic, basic chemistry.


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

A final thought from me at least.....check out NA....the counterpart to AA. Talk about an education.......learn how the "players" play. They can and have gamed anyone and any system. They range from grannies to your what you think is a "typical" abuser.


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## 06HarleyUltra (Oct 27, 2011)

champlain94 said:


> The older I get the more my Docter wants
> To prescribe me this and that. Is there a law against sailing while taking pain medication
> Vicoden, hydrocodone, oxy?


YES!!
It falls under the "alcohol and/or CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES" guides. 
If you take a few xanax/vicodin/oxycodone and drive/boat/ect....LEO's can and do take you in for a blood test. I see it happen week in and week out in the ER. 
I also see the effects of poor decisions while intoxicated, and let me tell ya people...ITS HARSH

I learned a few things reading this thread...Never had a clue about intoxication while anchored for the night. Never been stopped and asked about it either. But our rule is for one of us to remain alcohol free and responsible for the boat/driving ect.

Be safe, have fun

Rich


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

AKscooter said:


> Interesting the ignorance about drug testing. Anyone can pass a piss test for almost any drug 48-72 hours after stopping the drug. ....Even the idiots know this. Now pot will and can linger much much longer.....pot heads I do not care about.......meth oh yea......crack oh yea.....ETOH oh yea......it goes on and on...the ONLY thing drug testing does....is make YOU feel more secure.......and that is about as secure as TSA makes an airport. Keep being ignorant folks.....Instead of just making yourself feel good, thinking you are being a "positive" force. Get a real cop on here to talk about it.......btw my relatives included a federal judge, federal marshal and county sheriff. They do know what they are talking about. Yes drugs are rampant on commercial fishing vessels. So grow the h... up. Hit up dutch for a change in your cruising itinerary......Experience it first hand laddies. Or, heaven forbid become a medical professional...med tech, lab rat etc. and learn about basic, basic, basic chemistry.


Who said anything about drug testing? I think the conversation was about BAC testing, and then an inexplicable gear shift to drugs physically carried on board commercial vessels (reference below)



AKscooter said:


> Your crew member holding an bag of weed? Well then....your commercial fishing season is gonna be disrupted.


I think you may be getting a bit too spooled up, and oddly emotional over nothing (i.e. suggesting people are less intelligent than 'the idiots who know about drug testing' isn't going to win you any favor among sailnet members), or at the very least over something that is a fair bit off topic (criticizing LEOs for enforcing the law regarding drugs aboard commercial vessels). Still, your posts certainly add some levity to this thread and make for entertaining reading 

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any debate that drugs on board are bad. The discussion is whether drinking on board is acceptable/unaccepatable, and in what quantities. Whatever the answer, I echo Rich's sentiment above:

Be safe and have fun!


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

What if I was offshore. International waters. 150 miles etc... Who has jurisdiction. Coast Guard? Sheriff?
I obviously know you should have a sober mind and body. Just throwing the question out there. Where does the U.S. Coast Guard jurisdiction end or does it.


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

*Creedence 623* If they suspect you are impaired you better believe they can request...er force a blood draw. The blood draw is check for more than alcohol. As stated above, legally prescribed meds as well as street drugs are an issue that LEO's look at. Operating while impaired is no more of I say/they say argument. Easy to convict...oh so very easy......Mess up on your insulin....you betcha..that is operating impaired.........


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

AKscooter said:


> *Creedence 623* If they suspect you are impaired you better believe they can request...er force a blood draw. The blood draw is check for more than alcohol. As stated above, legally prescribed meds as well as street drugs are an issue that LEO's look at. Operating while impaired is no more of I say/they say argument. Easy to convict...oh so very easy......Mess up on your insulin....you betcha..that is operating impaired.........


Are you sure you're responding to the right guy?? Feel free to quote any of my responses in this thread if I'm mistaken, but I never questioned the fact that drugs and/or alchohol testing is compulsory if someone appears to be intoxicated.

I happen to agree that operating a vehicle or vessel while empaired (even an empairment from prescription medications) is dangerous and negligent, and should be punished. I think holding people accountable on horseback or rowing dinghies is a creative interpretation of the law, and one I don't agree with, but that's just my opinion.

Incidentally, I feel there's no problem with sailing with a beer in the binnacle cup holder; but the law is very clear on what constitutes intoxication, and it's a vessel operator's responsibility to ensure they stay under that limit and in a condition to safely operate their vessel.

Champlain,

I'm sure some international maritime legal expert is going to come along and qualify my attempt at an answer, but I would assume being intoxicated on the high seas isn't actively pursued; but should an incident occur, I would imagine you'd have to answer to the invesgative body assigned to determine liability. To that end, I found this:

_The main legal basis for marine accident investigations
lies in the United Nations' Convention on the Law of
the Sea (UNCLOS). In Article 94, it states that it is the
responsibility of the Flag State to institute an "inquiry"
(investigation) into accidents on the high seas._

To me, that suggests if you are operating a US Documented vessel while intoxicated and ball it up, you're going to have to answer to the US Coast Guard (and your insurer, hehe).


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## StoneAge (Sep 28, 2007)

[/QUOTE]Very true. every organization has "that guy" which makes everyone else look bad. And when someone has a bad experience they'll make sure to let everyone know. But if they had a good experience you'll most likely never hear about it. [/QUOTE]

Ok - Here's one.. Heading into San Francisco Bay in September last year (just coming form Neah Bay) we passed a cutter heading out.. They immediately turned around and set course back under the bridge. We headed for Sausalito anchorage.

I looked behind me and saw the orange boat being launched - Said to all on board to get ready for boarding. "What?" And I pointed. They were along side in just a few minutes flat. The guy in charge was hailing me (captain) and told us what they were going to do. Board us and do a safety inspection.

I said - Ok gents. C'mon aboard - not knowing what to expect I had a bit of nervousness about me. The lead guy introduced himself and we shook hands. He then told me exactly what they were going to do again, and My son took 2 guys below and they did their thing. The guys on deck (4 people boaded) checked for other safety gear. We passed with flying colours. Then they asked if we had checked into San Francisco yet - I said - well , Um no - we hadn't - We checked into the US at Roche Har in Washington and had tried to call Customs on the way into the bay but my phone didn't work there.

One of the guys handed me his iphone and said Please - Use this one. I did and got a message - left a message that we were there and that was that.

I'd have offered beers all around, (we were at anchor by then), but didn't think that would go over well (it would here in Belize). All in all we had a pleasant experience, met some really keen younger guys that were excited about their actual job, not ransacking boats for the fun of it, like some horror stories told.. we got to talk about our sail from Juan de Fuca and they oohed and awed etc....

It was a great experience and I wish every one went as smoothly for both officers and boaters alike.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Something I'm trying to remember that might apply in some jurisdictions, is something I read about presumption of intoxication -- that above 0.08 (USA) you are presumed to be intoxicated, at a very low level you are presumed to be not intoxicated, but that at an intermediate level of BAC (say between 0.04 and 0.08) there is not a presumption either way, and a law enforcement and courts may act based on judgment and field sobriety tests. Does anyone know more about this and when and where it applies?


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## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

Yep, thats the way it is now. Its surprising the change of official attitudes towards this in just a few short years. I used to be a Navigation Deputy for the local SD and the Sheriff told us to remember that people were just blowing off steam from a tough day or week and give them a break whenever possible. I worked there 5 years and never once issued a DWI, even if I did it wouldn't have affected their driving license. All thats changed now. Now the guys out doing my old job are much more serious about DWI and so is the law!

Brad
s/v KIVALO



BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> This is the law in NY
> New York State has passed legislation to lower New York State's "Boating While Intoxicated" blood alcohol content (BAC) threshold from .10 percent to .08 percent. Under the law, a person found to have a BAC level of .08 or more while boating will lose the privilege to operate a boat for one year, and will also be subject to a fine of up to $500 and up to 90 days in jail. Under previous law, these penalties applied to the .10 BAC level.
> ...


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

There a big sign right outside my marina, like a big advertisement sized one...that warns about BUI/BWI....and the Lake Patrol is VERY serious enforcing it.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I am not a heayvy drinker, in all seriousness. Cannot be. I have kiddos on board. But I believe the US has become a police state. Saw someone post this many years ago and thought he was a weirdo. I do not now. I personally think I am the atypical parent, and after my experiences, I think the US has become a police state with BUI just a small part of the issues.

For those that have not been there, and my international experience is limited to many here, it simply is not like that in the rest of much of the world. That has been my experience.

Brian


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Cruisingdad said:


> I am not a heayvy drinker, in all seriousness. Cannot be. I have kiddos on board. But I believe the US has become a police state. Saw someone post this many years ago and thought he was a weirdo. I do not now. I personally think I am the atypical parent, and after my experiences, I think the US has become a police state with BUI just a small part of the issues.
> 
> For those that have not been there, and my international experience is limited to many here, it simply is not like that in the rest of much of the world. That has been my experience.
> 
> Brian


Here is some background reading on what a police state actually is :






Note that the definition is NOT a country where laws that you don't like are being rigidly and universally enforced. A rule of law, where laws are passed by the government and then enforced non-abritrarily, actually typifies a first world country. You might think the state is too much of a nanny one, and you might be right, but that doesn't make it a police state.

I can assure you that any of the other first world countries in the world have drunk boating laws.

A police state is one where the police (often some kind of secret police) enforce POLITICAL aims of the government, and the public is subject to arbitrary detention, usually without charge and without a trial, for indefinite periods.

I suspect that many of the countries you envy because of freedom to drink while boating, would score very poorly on the democratic / political freedom index, thus defining them as police states.

Maybe you should try living in some of the red countries on the map to see what a police state really means.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Who said I drink and Boat? I dont think anyone should be drunk and boat. Period!! Now I sound like a dad. But you cannot pass laws to justify every moral aspect of humanity. We are a police state (at least in FL) where the officers follow quotas to meet and locate law breakers. That is a dangerous precendence. The BUI is only a small aspect. I am a Ron Paul guy, sorry.


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

MarkSF said:


> Here is some background reading on what a police state actually is :
> 
> Police state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


I think some of the Homeland Security laws would fit that bill, thereby providing some validity to Cruisingdad's opinion. I'm a little off the OP topic but, just saying...


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

I've never had any grounds for complaint against the USCG. I've been boarded three times and the personnel involved were competent and polite. 

The Florida Marine Patrol (now the Florida Wildlife Commission?) on the other hand, I have found to frequently be overbearing and obnoxious, what is called in the trade "badge heavy". This applies in the keys area more than other locations I have been. 

I might be tempted to cut them some slack if they were helpful at other times (like the USCG) but they are of little help to boaters in need. Unless the policy has changed, they don't even monitor channel 16! Good luck calling them if you're in trouble. They are worthless for anything except collecting money.

Now to change the name of my boat.


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