# Looking at 25-30ft boats suitable for weekending on the Great Lakes



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello. I'm fairly new here. I have some sailing knowledge and own a single-person dinghy that I've been sailing for a bit.  I want to do some small-time cruising and sailing with my wife, so I'm looking to get a 25-30ft boat suitable for weekend cruising on the Great Lakes. I'm located a couple of hours away from Erie, PA, so that would likely be my home port. 

Our budget for a sailboat is meager, considering that we also need to get a slip and winter storage. I have two boats that I am considering right now that are about in the same price range. One is a 1979 Hunter 25, and the other is a 1975 O'Day 27. Both seem to be ready-to-go (I say "seem" because I have currently only seen pictures, and have not had a survey or personal look at either boat yet). The Hunter is a sale-by-owner, and the O'Day is through a broker. The O'Day is slightly more expensive, but I've had an easier time getting information on the Hunter because the owner is actually responding to my email. The broker on the O'Day has been OK, but generally not all that forthcoming. 

I realize that any boat of this age might need some extra care and definitely some extra attention during maintenance time. I would like some honest opinions on these sizes based on my desire for a weekend boat that will live in a slip during the season and will play overnight host to at least my wife and I, and sometimes another couple. 

Any opinions are welcome, including, "forget it and just look at pictures." 

jonathan


----------



## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

The O'Day 27 is not a favored lake boat IMHO. O'Day has a beautiful finish and gets all "A's" in the gel-coat grades but the sailing performance is lackluster. If performance isn't your bag this may not be an issue. The inboard diesel version looses a lot of room vs. the outboard version and is stodgier still.

Now that said, we had an O'Day 27 in our marina and the owners loved it and used it almost every weekend. 

Personally, the Hunter may sail a bit lighter on it's feet but I'd take the O'Day 27 over the Hunter 25, if only for the added interior.

Keep an eye out for a Pearson 28 or a Catalina 27.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

You should buy in April, not now. Let someone else pay for the haulout and storage...they will be softened up a bit on price in the spring and you can request a seatrial then, meaning _they _have to do all the fitting out, mast raising, etc.

It's cruel, but fair, particularly if you're on a budget. Also, if they haven't winterized the engine properly, the doom will be on them!


----------



## Mark1948 (Jun 19, 2007)

*Great Lakes Boat*

I bought my Catalina 27 last Superbowl Sunday in Milwaukee. Not the best time to look at boats, but it is a good time to deal. I started negotiations in October and it took three months to get to my price. I have averaged about twice a week sailing in Michigan. There are a lot of boats that never made it out this year, talk to storage yard owners for leads on who might be interested in selling. That's where the negotiation starts, take a hard look at good boats. Don't let the accumulated dirt deter you, but do plan a couple of week cleaning you new fiberglass tub. Crawl through the boat and note every possible item you can see or can't see because it is not in the boat, e.g. radio, loran. Don't let your list deter you unless there are major issues. Must are that the engine starts, and the hull and other equipment (winches ect) are functional. What is the sail compliment, check the condition of the sails as part of the negotiation. When you reach a price, set a repair withhold or if the price is real good go as is if it passes inspection. My particular boat had not been in the water for 5 years and collected a lot of industrial dirt. It cleaned up well but took some work.


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Just look into the cost of keeping it as when you creep from 25 to 30 feet the cost of STUFF rises pretty


----------



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for all of the replies, folks--feel free to keep them coming! 

The cost to keep it slipped and in storage are two things that I'm thinking about as well. I have quotes and figures on a few different sizes to get me ballpark ranges, and things do start to increase a bit when I start looking at 30+. 

I'm still keeping an eye out for listings, too. I appreciate the comments on the O'Day with regard to performance. I'm not out to race anything, but I still want to be able to go places. 

Thanks! Anyone else? 

jonathan


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Short on headroom, but long on cockpit space, sailing performance and good manners - and I'd say the quintessential Lake boat - would be a Viking 28 from Ontario Yachts. We owned one for 10 years here on the West Coast and we still have a soft spot in our hearts for that boat. Good all weather performer, it's only real drawback is the lack of headroom - but we spent our 10 years with a growing child on board and enjoyed that many summers cruising and racing with her.

Some were owner-finished (could be good, could be bad) so watch for that. Solid glass hull, balsa cored decks. Pretty boats that go for a budget price by today's standards.

On the list with better headroom would be:
C&C 27 or 25
CS 27
Hughes/Northstar 26
Grampian 26
and of course the American mainstream brands.


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Let me say a bit more 

In this neck of the woods while a boat is stored buy the foot there is a BIG BUT and that is the boats beam when you jump from and 8'6" to a 10' to a 12' ect it puts you into different price ranges


When i say stuff i mean things like sails and rigging 

For example all new standing rigging on a J24 is 500 dollars my friends standing rod rigging on a 35' boat was 5000 dollars 

So you have to be carefull as things can go up in price  buy being just a little bit bigger


----------



## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*Think Headroom*

You say you're a couple of hours away from what'll be home port. Okay, what happens when your planned weekend sail gets cut short by a passing cold front complete with hourly downpours? Gonna turn around and drive home? Stay aboard? Check into a nearby motel?

Point is, some of the smaller boats you're looking at have no standing headroom. Or maybe pop tops, which can be quite open to the weather. Consider how this might play into your weekend-cruising plans. You may not find it objectionable to spend several hours in cramped quarters where you keep bumping your head. Some of us do.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

jwoytek, I was in the same position last year at this time- looking for a smallish "erie- capable" boat, and considered a Hughes 25, Grampian 26, etc., and ended up buying a well-kept well equipped Georgian 23. Shorter than some of the designs on our shortlist, the Georgian better suited our needs- diesel inboard, wheel steering, standing headroom below, enclosed head with holding tank, acceptable galley, and surveyed well. It ain't fast, it ain't pretty, but it's tough, comfortable and cheap.


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

How 'boat a Tanzer? It's THE name I associate with the Eastern Great Lakes. Here's a pretty 26 footer in Cooperstown for $8k:










That funky coach roof gives it 5'11" headroom. And Tanzers were heavy w/out being slow, built like the proverbial brick s**thouse. They'll plow thru Lake Erie or Ontario chop when a lighter boat would stop dead. Interiors are kinda tacky, but that's why it ain't a $70k Benetau! Cheap to buy, fairly cheap to own, small enuf to rig fast & go sailing. Tanzer had other models too, which should be easy to find in your area.


----------



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

jjablonowski said:


> You say you're a couple of hours away from what'll be home port. Okay, what happens when your planned weekend sail gets cut short by a passing cold front complete with hourly downpours? Gonna turn around and drive home? Stay aboard? Check into a nearby motel?
> 
> Point is, some of the smaller boats you're looking at have no standing headroom. Or maybe pop tops, which can be quite open to the weather. Consider how this might play into your weekend-cruising plans. You may not find it objectionable to spend several hours in cramped quarters where you keep bumping your head. Some of us do.


This is part of what we're looking to do--we want a boat that would be a capable "campsite" for the weekend, regardless of weather. We often spend time in a small-ish tent together, but we definitely plan to personally check-out how the inside feels before we buy, considering that we might be spending at least a few of our weekends in port due to weather or other issues. While we might go up on a Friday and spend at least the first night, we're also close enough that we can call the sailing weekend early and spend Saturday relaxing before heading back to our own bed Saturday night. If it is a comfortable stay on the boat, though, then we might be more inclined to stick it out until Sunday, even if we only get a few hours out on the water.

jonathan


----------



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

bobmcgov said:


> How 'boat a Tanzer? It's THE name I associate with the Eastern Great Lakes. Here's a pretty 26 footer in Cooperstown for $8k:
> 
> That funky coach roof gives it 5'11" headroom. And Tanzers were heavy w/out being slow, built like the proverbial brick s**thouse. They'll plow thru Lake Erie or Ontario chop when a lighter boat would stop dead. Interiors are kinda tacky, but that's why it ain't a $70k Benetau! Cheap to buy, fairly cheap to own, small enuf to rig fast & go sailing. Tanzer had other models too, which should be easy to find in your area.


Wow! How did I manage to miss that one in my searches? I think I'll have to go back to look at New York some more--maybe I missed some other choices there. That boat isn't half bad.

As for tacky--I know how to use a sewing machine, and so does my wife--we could be dangerous. 

jonathan


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Heh. Just randomly scrolling down the T26 owners list (mostly Canada and New York, as expected) -- and I ran across the name of a NY owner who is real good friends with my father! Small world. Mebbe I'll ask him if his friend ever sails the thing.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

There was a bright fellow in the newsgroups a few years back who owned a Tanzer 29 named "Xan"...he probably has a blog or something still.

Anyway, the Tanzer 29, while slab sided and a little funky looking, has a great deal of interior for the length. A more conventional choice might be the Pearson 30, which a guy at my club bought a 1979 model for $10K a couple of years ago and sails happily today.

My very first recreational sail in the '80s was on a Tanzer 26. They aren't performance boats, but they are safe in a blow.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you are more interested in comfort than performance you might want to investigate Bayfields. They are well-built boats that are nice too look at and roomy. They are not the fastest things on the water, but they are very forgiving and hold their value.

bayfieldyachts : Bayfield Yacht Owner Resources


----------



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for all of the replies, folks. I have some new material to look over now, which is good. My wife and I are excited that we might actually be out sailing in our own boat this coming summer.


----------



## philsboat (Oct 16, 2006)

Take a look at a Mirage 25, 25' 8 3/4" X 9' beam,4400 lbs., 5' 11" headroom,some are diesel some are outboards.I love my Mirage.Nice cabin and well built and sails well enough to race competitively.
Phil


----------



## ccollins0601 (Dec 7, 2003)

j - 
I have an Oday 27 (1973) and am very happy with it. Good interior space and especially good headroom (i'm 6'4") make it significantly better than a "sail-camp" or cuddy cabin type of boat for a rainy weekend. I used to have an Aquarius 23 and it's a world of difference in that regard. Same goes for seakindliness and sailing performance. OTOH, the Aquarius was trailerable and I could step the mast myself, so it's a different world as far as costs for haul, storage, mast step/de-step, etc.

Some of the O27s have inboard engines and some are designed for transom-mounted outboards. Mine is an OB which I like because it keeps things simple (though not as pretty). I also have been happy with sailing performance and pointing ability. I can regularly approach hull speed when there's a breeze blowing.

More on O'Day 27:
I Heart O'Days - Model Information - O'Day 27

Check out this site for comparing statistics and dimensions on different boats - far from the whole story, I know, but a good place to start.
Sail Calculator Pro v3.52 - 2000+ boats


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What did you say your sailboat budget was? That could restrict the size of boat you buy due to the increased moorage relative to the size.

The Ontario Viking 28 or C&C 27 are quality built boats along with several others:
Ericson 28
Pearson 28
Ranger 29
Cal 27
Tartan 27
Crown 28
Mirage 27
Islander 28
Express 27
CS 27
Newport 28
Aloha 27 [8.2M]

There are some great buys in sailboats, especially with the flakie economy.
Do your research on these boats. Most are around $10K for the 1970's versopms. Remember to have them surveyed prior to purchase.

Good luck,

S/V Doodles
C&C 27
Sailing out of Astoria, OR


----------



## jgmartis (Nov 25, 2007)

*Sailboat for Erie*

All of the boats mentioned are good choices, try to buy something that has never been in salt water. Three choices that havn't been listed are Chrysler 26, C&C 25 and the boat I'm restoring a New Horizons 26. Check cragslist.org for Pgh, Erie, Buffalo, Clevland, Toledo, Sandusky, and Detroit, sailboats that match your list show up there on a regular basis.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Two of the best in this class are the pearson 28 and ericson 27.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Just a quick thought for you when comparing boats. You'll find the price difference, space, and costs for two different boats to be closer to the cube of the difference. In other words 27/25 x 27/25 x 27/25 = 1.26 times more dollars. Not much at that size difference. But comparing a 25 with a 30 it's 1.73 times more expensive!


----------



## jwoytek (Aug 22, 2008)

Wow--I am really appreciating the depth of knowledge here at this forum! Thanks for all of the responses. I have a lot of things to think about here. There's lots of research to do here, and this seems to be a great place to do it. Thank you!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, James Baldwin, of Atom fame, has recently published a list of some of his favorite small cruising sailboats. While these are geared more toward bluewater cruising, it might be a list well worth looking at.

*LINK*


----------



## farmboy (Jul 8, 2008)

The people in the slip next to me this summer had a C&C Corvette. They cruise Lake Ontario and love their boat. I don't know much about it, but they seem to have a good reputation. The shoaldraft keel with centerboard seems to make sense for the Great Lakes. I think they are real head-turners.

C&C Corvette Sailboat Association - About the Corvette
C&C Corvette 31 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Corvettes are very old-school...like 40 years. This is not to diss them at all, but the saloon is pretty tight for the length, which is not a problem for a couple, I suppose. I think they are great for Georgian Bay or as a Bahamas island-crawler (if repowered, retanked and rebatteried!). They were built at Morch Marine, so it's likely the one you have next to you hasn't moved a lot!

Speaking of "hasn't moved a lot", here's one on Craigslist...make an offer!

1969 C & C Corvette


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

*a better idea maybe...*

Compare a c&c corvette to a cs27. The s27 is newer, as far as I know they all have yanmar diesels, they have 2ft longer waterline and 3" more beam, with 3' less overall length. Same basic layout, because of age less likely to need upgrades. A 27' boat will cost less for moorage and upkeep, sails are less expensive. They are well built and have a good rep for that as well as sailing ability. There should be some in your area as they were built in ontario.
Also full standing headroom. I just purchased mine in victoria. I can't send links yet as I'm a newbie, but if you go to the c&c link you can go to index and get cs27 info in 27-30' group.


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

go to the bottom of the two links and at the top of the page click model menu and it's the first boat in the 27 to 30 category


----------

