# Need some pointers with light air Please.



## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

My new to me 222 O'Day sails just great in medium and heavy winds. She will keep up and point better than many of the local 23's to 27 footers,,BUT during a recent Wed evening fun class race I got passed by a 19 ft Cape Dory Typhoon( Keel boat ). Well I was OK with that except as they went by they showed an exuberant amount of joy in doing so and said they hadn't passed a boat in the three year they owned her. BTW the little Typhoon is about the most beautiful boat to look at I've seen.
I can point my boat very well with speed in a good wind, but in 3-5 mph wind she seems dead in the water. There is probably something I can do to the rigging but am afraid to touch something for fear I may spoil the way she handles in the heavier winds. Just need some pointers.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Sometimes light air is flukey. Someone else can get a puff that completely misses you, twenty feet away. It can be very frustrating. Like your experience with the Cape Dory, we had a Beneteau 36.7 pass us once. It hasn't happened again since, but at the time there was nothing I could do but watch them ease by. What to do in any case? All the standard light-air stuff you read in the how-to books. Not too tight on the halyards, downhaul, outhaul or sheets. (This goes for the jib too.) Ease off any backstay tension so the mast isn't bent (you want almost baggy sails that will provide more power to drive through the inevitable powerboat slop.) DON'T PINCH! Keep the boat moving, even if you have to drive off a bit. Move your jib fairleads forward so that the jib luffs evenly from top to bottom. Try to steer as little as possible - it slows the boat. Use crew weight to heel the boat a little, so the weight of the sails helps keep them curved and full. Sometimes a little heel helps to reduce wetted surface, which can help you go faster too. (This depends on the hull shape. 420's are usually sailed flat, for example.) It may also help to move people forward, out of the cockpit. Doing this can lift the big, flat aft surfaces out of the water, further reducing wetted surface. Grouping your crew together with their weight as near as possible to the keel (usually right aft of the mast) will also help reduce hobbyhorsing in waves, which can slow you down. In a Wednesday night fun race it may be tough to get crew to go below, but it might also be faster to get their weight down. Once they're in place, make sure crew stay put. Moving around slows the boat. Doing these things can help when that catspaw hits to make sure you'll be the one grinning.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Another thing....in really light air, don't have people moving about the boat. The shifting of the center of gravity can rock the boat enough to throw them around and break up their ability generate lift, and prevent them from accelerating the boat.


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## infonote (Jun 27, 2006)

This is a tuning guide for a sonar boat. But some tips apply to all boats.

http://www.doylesails.com/sonar-tuning.htm


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

From the responses it looks like it is the skipper more than the boat. I sure can understand that because it has been over 50 years since I've owned a sail boat. All the new rigging and the changes like everything else hasn't stayed the same. Surely these new plastic sailboats have improved. I remember sailing Lyman Cat Boats around the Bass island in Lake Erie as a kid in the early 50,s. You had to have two people to sail the one sheet boat ,,,,one to sail and one to bail. Fun days but going back to my roots is funner !! Thanks everyone and keep the suggestions coming I'm reading every letter and word. Isn't the Internet great??


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

When racing look for wind shifts and ripples on the water but also be aware that wind often travels higher up off the water. I've been in drifters where A boat with a taller rig was catching air that was missing most of my rig entirely.
In a true drifter 0-2 knots you'll want to remember that when a puff hits the forces exerted on the sail are far greater than the lateral resistance of the hull so leave the boom well out until you get some forward movement then start trimming in to the center line, Repeating as necessary.
Keep a slight twist in the leach and a medium amount of draft by easing the out haul and the luff of the main. Sheetleads forward on the jib and a slight ease in the halyard.
For conditions in the 5 knot range you will have better forward speed and the boat will be able to support the extra side force. Tighten the leach using the Main sheet then pull the traveler to windward, if you have one,until the boom is at centerline. I usually gauge the proper amount of twist by letting the top tell tale duck back behind the head of the sail once in awhile.Keep the draft in both sails fairly heavy and roughly 50 % aft.
Light air sailing can be very frustrating but when you start to learn what works for your boat it can be a lot of fun.


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## mvk (Nov 5, 2005)

One more thought... In light air, staying in clear air becomes even more critical. The wind shadow of boats to windward carries a long long ways on those light air days. This is a big problem for the slower boats in a large PHRF fleet.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

In light air, try to stay on the weather side of the course, because that's where the wind is most likely to come from. When a puff comes along, you'll get it before the boats that are further to leeward. When you start to move, they'll still be sitting there waiting for it to get to them.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I hate to be the cynic, but if you were passed a Typhoon in light air, I would suspect that the other skipper was sculling with the rudder. I knew a guy who used to do that in an old Columbia fullkeel - the only time he passed anyone was in light air conditons - if you kept an eye on him, you could see a slow but steady back-and-forth on the tiller...
Light air would be the worst conditions for a lead stone like a Typhoon to race against your type of boat.

FWIW my advice for light air is avoid pinching the boat, sail it full, steer so the leeward telltales stall if you need to generate some momentum. keeping moving is far more important than pointing.

Good luck.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

A lot of good advice here. A couple more quick points. 

You have not said what sails you are using but from the fact that you do well in moderate to heavy air and the Oday 222 is not an especially good moderate to heavy air boat, you are probably using a smallish jib. You might consider buying a #1 genoa if you really care about your performance in light conditions. 

The Oday 22 is pretty round bottomed so you don't want to heel too far due to increased wetted surface but light winds often have a vertical component and so some heel will help. 

A lot of 222's have wing keels. which are slow in light air if trimmed down in the bow or stern, i.e. pay close attention to fore and aft trim. 

Jeff


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

As near as I can tell I'm the fourth owner of this 1986 O'Day 222. Both head sail and main are not marked with mfg name. The main is full batten and the jib clew extends back to just past the side stays (? % ). The roller furler works well and the cover for the jib is very sun bleached sunbrella bright blue. The sail is at a sailmaker now as the seam on the leech ripped open exposing the draw string and the foot seam needs some sewing too from rubbing on the lifelines. The sail maker said that this sail has hardly been used but has set in the sun a lot. 50 years ago sails were mostly cotton so the new synthetics are a great improvement to me. Don't exactly know what it means when it is said the sail is crisp yet, but both sail free crisp to me when I crush the material.
Everyone is giving such good information and last Wednesday's race I was able to use a lot from what I've learned here on the forum.. I placed second out of six boats. And the Cape Dory was not an issue for me. In fact the Dory guys asked if I was using the motor. Winds were light to moderate but when I loosened the main halyard and the out haul I could see the difference in the speed. So much to learn and remember. And meeting many new friends both here on the forum and on the water.

Jeff H,
( You might consider buying a #1 genoa if you really care about your performance in light conditions. ) I don't know what a #1 genoa would be. We did purchase A USED spinnaker on e-Bay that is in transit because we'd like to learn this sail. And did not want to practice on a new one. So I'm sure there will be more questions in the future. Here it is almost the end of Aug and the summer is just flying by. Thanks everyone !!


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## 2ndimpression (Jul 5, 2006)

Our first keel boat was a Oday 22 with the shoal draft keel and we had a hell of a time in light winds since the boat had such a small rig. I can't remember the differences between the 22 and the 222. We threw on a new 135% jib and main and that helped ALOT in light to moderate air but for really light days even with our older 150% genny we just could not make that boat move. One thing we did modify on that boat was the amount of rake in the mast it would take. On ours the main sheet was attached to a metal plate that was between the back stay and a cable that went down to the back of the boat. We shortened that cable and added an extender to our forstay since the turn buckle would not open enough. That extra rake really improved pointing and handling alot.

About the head sail. A number 1 is a 150% genoa. If you want to know how big a sail is for your boat measure from your forstay to your mast and then measure the sail. (ie 10 feet for round numbers and your jib is 10 feet then your jib is a 100%. If your jib measures 13 feet it's 130% etc)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

2ndimpression said:


> Our first keel boat was a Oday 22 with the shoal draft keel and we had a hell of a time in light winds since the boat had such a small rig. I can't remember the differences between the 22 and the 222. We threw on a new 135% jib and main and that helped ALOT in light to moderate air but for really light days even with our older 150% genny we just could not make that boat move. One thing we did modify on that boat was the amount of rake in the mast it would take. On ours the main sheet was attached to a metal plate that was between the back stay and a cable that went down to the back of the boat. We shortened that cable and added an extender to our forstay since the turn buckle would not open enough. That extra rake really improved pointing and handling alot.
> 
> About the head sail. A number 1 is a 150% genoa. If you want to know how big a sail is for your boat measure from your forstay to your mast and then measure the sail. (ie 10 feet for round numbers and your jib is 10 feet then your jib is a 100%. If your jib measures 13 feet it's 130% etc)


Thats not actually how you determine the % of sail area. You need to measure the distance from the luff to the clew at a 90 deg angle from the luff this equals the LP dimension. to find the % sail use the following formula.

------ LP(ft)
LP% = ------- x 100
---------J

*J is the length from base of mast to headstay.


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## 2ndimpression (Jul 5, 2006)

noscreenname said:


> Thats not actually how you determine the % of sail area. You need to measure the distance from the luff to the clew at a 90 deg angle from the luff this equals the LP dimension. to find the % sail use the following formula.
> 
> ------ LP(ft)
> LP% = ------- x 100
> ...


My bad, thank you for the correction


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CharlieR-

The wires that run up to the top of the mast that are port and starboard of the mast are SHROUDS, not STAYS, which are located on the centerline of the boat and forward and aft of the mast. 

The drawstring along the leech is a leech line and used to tension the leech and prevent it from fluttering. 

If the jib extends past the mast or shrouds, then it is actually a Genoa, which is the proper name for headsails over 100% of the foretriangle. Exactly what size Genoa it is you would have to find out by measuring it. 

One thing that may have happened to the sails is that the material may have lost its ability to block air from passing. This often happens on older sails, that have had a lot of UV exposure, even though the sails haven't had much use. 

I would do two quick checks on the sails. 

First, try rubbing the stitching with the back of your thumbnail fairly hard, and see if the stitching fails. If it does, that means most of the stitching is UV damaged and probably will fail soon. 

Second, try holding a section of the sail across your mouth and blowing as hard as you can through the cloth. If you can blow through the cloth, the cloth is too porous to air to work well as a sail. If air can pass through a sail easily, the air won't flow properly against the sail.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

*My headsail was re sewed this week.*

Sailingdog,

Thank you for explaining these terms. After 50 years of being away from sailing there are new to me words. The forward sail was mostly called a jib and a genoa was a large jib. Don't recall head sail being said. Seemed all the wires were stays. (Fore stay aft stay, port and starboard stays ) I love the new boats of today and they certainly deserve to have modern adjectives for their much improved accessories.
I mentioned of having the foot and leech resewed on the head sail at a sail maker in Sandusky Oh. last week. He assured me that although the head sails furl er cover was badly faded and the UV's got to the stitching, the sail it self has hardly been used. " Just look how bright and crisp the material is, the cover has done it's job and I should this winter have him put a new cover on." I have done the blow through test and all is well.
Going to need a spinnaker pole. The "J" measurement on my 222 O'Day is 7'8". My latest question is, what size would be a regulation spinnaker pole for my 222 be? Or where would I find this info? Poles seem expensive and if I would need to buy new I'd want to get what will not disqualify me. If my memory serves me from my thistle and lightening experience years ago I may want to use or have sheets of light weight in the light air. I bought a 100 ft hank of braided poly 3/8ths because it was $8.95 at Tractor Supply and thought that was cheap! But now I feel it may be to heavy.Plan to try it and get a feel for the length I need and then buy a lighter line and get the good stuff. Any comment s? you know I appreciate.

Charlie R


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Charlie... All genoas are jibs...being overlapping jibs specifically, but not all jibs are genoas.  Jibs and genoas, and screachers, are all head sails...but for different purposes. 

Glad to hear the material is still solid... 

You'd have to check with the ODR for what size pole to get for your boat. You want to use light sheets for a spinnaker, but not so light that they can't handle the loads that a spinnaker generates, and not so thin that they're going to be hard on the hands. A rope as thin as 3/8" is generally pretty tough on the hands. 7/16" is much kinder to the fingers/palms and easier to grip. If the line you bought was polypropylene, then it is probably way too weak...polypropylene is one of the weakest rope fiber, and degrades under UV very quickly.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

PHRF rules require the pole to be the same length as the J dimension. You can build a chute with broader shoulders..but the J has to be the length from the base of the mast to the base of the headstay. I belive the current penalty for an oversized pole is 3 sec.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

*phrf races*

Our group of boat racing wed nights have three basic class boats.

JAM ( jib & main )

FUN ( beginners, no protest allowed, have 10 min starts ) for fun purpose "That's us" for now

PHRF These guys do spinnakers

The Cape Dory Typhoon and I are the two smallest boats with the biggest boats being the 30 ft'rs. There is only three boats in the Phrf group and last week two didn't show up. In good breezes I can catch up to the JAM boats except the 25 O'Day that walks away from the show most all the time. They are really good. I expect to be in this group next year, also with doing the MILLS RACE and the Inter Lake Yachting Assn Races at the Bass Islands in Lake Erie. You can maybe tell I'm having the time of my life. Thanks everyone the Internet is great.


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## dorourke (Aug 11, 2006)

An old and well experienced racer told me this, "in light air resist the jenny or the larger head sails if you can, when they bag and luff they are of no use. Use the the jib, it will hold shape and not create drag by luffing, when the air picks up steadely then shift gears power up and trim with weight like the prams do".


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## Bob1112 (Jan 27, 2003)

The O'Day 222 is actually an excellent light air boat. Here are some factors to consider:

1. Some or all models used a roller furling jib with a wire in the luff. The halyard hooked directly to the wire, and the wire in turn to the bow hardware; the sail was not hanked on to the headstay. If this is your set-up, pointing will be poor in all conditions.

2. Original models did not have a winch on the mast to tension the jib halyard. Later models did. The inability to tension the jib worsens the pointing issue, although this may have less impact in light air.

3. The standard jib supplied with the boat was a 105. Switch to a 155 for light air.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

Bob1112,

Yup this is exactly the set up you discribe. The boat does point in medium to heavy winds. The other thing that bothers me is how loose the back and forestays are. When I raised the mast with the gin-pole I made this spring, there were three positions or holes in the bow chain plate assembly to set the pin. I could only assemble the forestary (CDI furler) to the aft hole because the weight of the furler and sail attached created enough curve that no matter how hard I tried to tighten the stay I could not reach the middle yet the very first hole with the pin. You can see I have a lot to learn. Now I sleep on the boat on wed evenings, during a thunderstorm with a lot of wind the furler and it's bow (bend) began to gallop like electrical wires on telephone poles. This can't be right can it? I think my rigging is too loose.

I may already have a 135 or the 155 jib already need to measure it because there are the tracks and second set of winches on the cockpit comings.

I appriciate the info. I think there were only about 130 222's made and mine is a Santa Anna Calif made boat to boot so there was probably even less of these.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

"I could only assemble the forestary (CDI furler) to the aft hole because the weight of the furler and sail attached created enough curve that no matter how hard I tried to tighten the stay I could not reach the middle yet the very first hole with the pin. "

Charlie,

You might try securing the main halyard as a temporary backstay, free the backstay and lean the mast forward enough to pin the forestay in the first position, then crank on the main halyard to bring the mast aft enough to pin the backstay. Then you can tension the forestay with the backstay turnbuckle. The fore/aft location of the mast can also affect the balance of the boat, greating or reducing whether helm ...I would think there would be other Oday owners around from whom you can get advice, maybe get to visit someone's boat.


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## Bob1112 (Jan 27, 2003)

Charlie:

I suggest you ditch that wire luff/furler arrangement. The sail can be salvaged; take it to a sailmaker, who can remove the wire and substitute a cloth luff rope and hanks. This will work just fine on your present wire headstay, and make set-up far easier. It will also make things less busy up at the bow when the wind picks up at night, since the jib for this boat is fairly small and when dropped can be folded and stowed by one person.

Also, keep in mind that your spreaders are swept aft, so the ability to pull the headstay forward will be affected not only by backstay tension, but also the tension in the shrouds.

The second set of winches you describe is unusual. The stock boat had only one set on the cabin top (the originals were Barlow 15's), and those stock winches worked fine with the sheets for a 155 genoa.

There is an unofficial O'Day website at http://oday.home.att.net/ where you can look around and see how other people have set up your boat.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

sailingfool,

"You might try securing the main halyard as a temporary backstay,"

Of course,,-------------Now why couldn't I have thought of that?? Thanks, That is too easy> 


Bob1112,


"I suggest you ditch that wire luff/furler arrangement."

Bob this is one of those new to me improvements.. Don't think these were around 50 years ago. I do have a hank-on jib I could try for awhile in the sail inventory I received with the boat. I might just take the furler off for awhile . 

The shrouds are pretty loose also and just maybe there is enough loose to make the forward pin connection.

Sounds like you may have owned an O'Day 222, You are very knowledgeable about this boat.. I do have a bookmark on the un-official OD web sight, and watch it for info too.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

"The shrouds are pretty loose also and just maybe there is enough loose to make the forward pin connection."
FWIW the shrouds should not be loose. A working guideline for shroud tension, is that when beating in about 15 knots of wind the leeward shrouds should develop a little slack, but not so much that they are slapping around. Sail testing is a common way to tune the rigging - I;'ve only used tension guages on smaller one design boats. 

If your shrouds are loose, start adjusting...


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

*Up date on my progress.........*

To date there are/is nine great sailors that have shared their views and contributed pointers to my understanding how my new to me 222 O'Day sails.

Proud to say the wind last night all but pooped out (for awhile ) 13 boats started four of us finished. first leg was a tack, second was a reach and the third was down wind. Even though I was fourth to finish I was the smallest boat and after the re-calculations I probably have a 2nd place. I used most all of your wonderful advice and just about every one of them worked out. My 222 was a new boat in that light air. The biggest tip was the "use the original sheet tracks on the cabin top." This was the most noticeable.. I even caught up to the faster bigger boats in the first race group.. With more practice I'll be even better.
The cabin sheet track caused the head sail to have more of a bow in it's foot than the farther aft cockpit tracks. The three boats ahead of me were 27 footers or more. The Cape Dory Typhoon was left in my wake. After it took more than an hour to get to the first marker, (less than two mile) 9 boats had turned their motors on and went back to their marinas. The four od us stuck it out and a nice breese came up and we rounded the last two legs in about the same time as the first.

THANK YOU TO EACH ONE OF YOU WHO CONTRIBUTED A LITTLE SOMETHING TO MY KNOWLEDGE IN LIGHT AIR SAILING !!! You have given me some stuff to work with in the future. If you can think of anything else keep me posted.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would ditch the C.D.I if your serious about racing. That brand of furler uses an integral halyard, to avoid potential halyard wrap, and therefore it's difficult to make adjustments to your sail when racing. The C.D.I also has a very big and heavy luff extrusion that hurts the entry into the sail.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

*Key word is "Serious"*

noscreenname,
Yup I can understand fully what you are talking about.. And maybe soon I will wanna get real serious about racing and therefore if this happens, There will be a whole lot more modification I'd wanna make to my 222 O'Day. I'm in a learning / remembering mode now so just working with what I have and doing this well is my first step.

Example of what I thought was neato.---Last wed my brother and I took out the boat about five hours before the race starts and tried out the things that was suggested on the forum wind was rather light. While experimenting about an hour before the race the wind picked up big time. White caps abound with gusts of I don't know how much but sail wise I was over powered. Luffing the sails with the sheets to keep the boat from heeling to hard over actually causes us to slowdown. Furled my head sail to about 35% and the boat sails better and speed improves. By the time the race started the wind episode calmed and the head sail was un furled to the max again. So I liked that. Didn't have to hank on and off a different size jib. So this is telling me do I really wanna get "Serious" about racing.? maybe not that serious just now.. I have learned a lot lately about my light air sailing and there has been big improvements Thanks to this web site and everyone on it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It's a bit of an investment, but there are several makes of furlers that use a much smaller foil with twin grooves for sail changes that will allow you to 
adjust the halyard tension. I use a Harken on my boat and we can remove the drum for racing or sometimes I will use it when I think we might need to reef.
Note: When you reef your sail you want to move the sheet leads forward. A good way to check the proper position is to head up until the sail luffs and it should break even from top to bottom.


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## Charlie R (Apr 23, 2006)

*My sail inventory has---*

noscreenname,

a jib maybe ? but a much smaller furler attached to it , it's coiled up in a sailbag,,,.. Hummmmm looks old but maybe there is something along your lines of what you are talking about. I have the current Harken catalog too. Food for thought. Thanks.

For a boat that was/is ready to sail seems like I got a lot of things to do to it,,Hee he but that what it's all about,, Right?

Need to figure out how to remove the centerboard as there is a chunk that something took a bit out of the top aft quarter about 3" X3"  . Winter project.


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## Bob1112 (Jan 27, 2003)

Charlie R,

Yes, I did own an O'Day 222. It was a very good boat for inland waters; excellent in light air. I could ghost along in dead calms, with the only "wind" being produced within 100 or so feet of shore by the thermal created from the rail cut adjacent the shore line. 

Try that in a Swan!


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