# Am I Crazy for Considering a Hinkley Pilot Sloop?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Any thoughts on whether I would be crazy to buy a 1965 35 ft Hinkley Pilot Sloop? I would be sailing in the San Francisco Bay. Anyone know how easy the Hinkley would be to sail? expensive to upkeep?

Thanks!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

mjdoane said:


> Any thoughts on whether I would be crazy to buy a 1965 35 ft Hinkley Pilot Sloop? I would be sailing in the San Francisco Bay. Anyone know how easy the Hinkley would be to sail? expensive to upkeep?
> 
> Thanks!


Expensive to purchase, too!!

I've always liked them - from a distance. But nicer examples are still fairly expensive for their age and size -- pedigree notwithstanding. I saw a flyer for one FSBO earlier in the week, I think it was in the $135K range. That's a lot of nickel for a nearly 45 year old boat, especially one that is "smaller" on the inside than a typical modern 30-footer.

That said, they sure are pretty, and said to sail very well. They would probably do well in the SF Bay conditions.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the input. This would be my first boat so I'm struggling. I saw a nice one, but your right they are expensive. So I've been thinking about a new boat for the same nickle. But I like the look and I heard the sail well. Are they really small on th inside? I've only seen pics so far. I'm going to sail one next weekend.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think it is a bit of a leap for a first boat. I would be sailing on everything I could get a ride on before dropping $135K. I love the Hinkley but there is a lot of competition.........


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

MJ, Sounds like you've been bitten. Ordinarily I'm not particularly fond of the pilot house, but Hinkley sure has a way with a shear line and the house isn't obtrusive at all. Gorgeous boats. Saw one in transit at Titusville Marina and she stopped everyone in their tracks as she was docking. The owner must have had a fortune in her, she WAS beautiful! I wanted to lick her, but felt unworthy! 

I'm sure if you wanted to keep one in pristine condition, they could eat all the money you could throw at 'em. As far as ease of sailing one, they do not command those prices for noth'n and it would be most appropriate for the Bay or just about anywhere for that matter. They're beautiful and well mannered, so if you can afford it, I say go for the 'ring'!

Oh yeah, Don't know how much they are asking, but I did see one recently in the Fla. boat trader in Miami for under 50k IIRC. So their out there. Good luck with the search.

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Bob,

You're right. I saw one recently and it made me think twice about another (much newer) boat I'm considering. Now I've got the bug. But I don't want to go for it if it wasn't well mannered, so your input is much appreciated. I'm taking it for sail next week....


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have been sailing on Hinckley Pilots since they were new boats back in the 1960's. While these are beautiful boats to look at they are miserable boats to sail in the kind of big winds and short chop for which San Franscisco Bay is famous. They are high maintenance if you intend to keep one in the kind of pristine condition that is required to maintain resale value and even more expensive if you let one go and take a depreciation hit. They would make a miserable first boat as well, well down near the bottom of my list of recommendations. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Plumper said:


> I think it is a bit of a leap for a first boat. I would be sailing on everything I could get a ride on before dropping $135K. I love the Hinkley but there is a lot of competition.........


I have to agree with plumper on this one...

Dont be smitten by the first beautiful lady at the ball...there are a lot to dance with before the nights over..


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeff H, 
Thanks for the reality check... I What would be your recommendation? I've been struggling witht he first boat issue... I know I should try to be somewhat practical, but the look and feel is important to me too.

Thanks.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Best bet is to crew on different style boats. That way you can experience the sailing qualities an have a better idea of what you like and dislike.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

mjdoane said:


> Jeff H,
> Thanks for the reality check... I What would be your recommendation? I've been struggling witht he first boat issue... I know I should try to be somewhat practical, but the look and feel is important to me too.
> 
> Thanks.


For a first boat I'd suggest the most pristine example of whatever 30' or so foot production boat you find. If your budget allows look at boats like a Sabre 34 or 36, but a Beneteau, Hunter or Catalina will be a fine first boat.

It will teach you what you really want in your next boat, won't require a ton of maintenence (at least on varnish and what not) and if you keep it as nice as when you bought it will probably be fairly easy to sell when you are ready to move on.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

If you are starting out in SF Bay, you will eventually want to go off shore, of course the Hinckley is a bluewater vessel - but look in the 30-foot range at strong, bluewater boats that will have more the feel of the Hinkley - there aren't many new boats that will have that rock solid feel - certainly not Hunters, Catalinas, Irvins, Beneteaus - all nice boats, but not true bluewater boats. Go on line and check out Cape Dorys, Bristols, Pacific Seacraft and similar heavy-built boats - much cheaper than the Hinckley.


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

If you are intending to eventually go offshore, a good site for boats to consider for offshore cruising is mahina.com/cruise. There is a great list of boats recommended for offshore work and then you could go to sites like yachtworld.com, as well as many others, to see if any catches your eye. The guys are probably right, the Hinkleys are a hefty price to pay for 'pretty'. Let the search and the fun begin! 

Bob


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

Oh yeah, the Hinkley is on the Mahina list as well.


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## AlwaysFORSAIL (Nov 30, 2006)

*Ain't we all*

Anyone buying a boat is nuts. Ain't it great to be in such fine company??

I drive a 1984 Hunter 34' that keeps me way too busy with maintenance/cleaniinig stuff. Hinckleys are a responsibility greater than a Hunter and not nearly as practical. I can ride around in my Hunter with a few few hurricane/dock dings and be quite content. If I had a Hinckley I'd feel more inclined to shine and wax a little more often than sail.

All that said, if you are a maintenance person and the Hinckley looks good to you, by all means jump. I like the sail all you can sail advice but don't wait too long. If you wait for the perfect time/boat/money/etc you will miss a lot of good sailing.

The best advice I can think of is that while folks in an anchorage may admire whichever boat sails in they really don't care what you sail as much as that you are sailing.

Wow, I should be sailing instead of on a soap box


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Tons of good advice to chew on. Exactly what I was looking for from people more informed than me... Thanks for all the input... 

Bob, I went to the Mahina list and did see the Hinckley... ugh..


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Are you crazy for considering the Hinkley? Yes indeed. 

Does that mean that after you've done your due diligence and you're still wanting to buy it that you shouldn't? Absolutely not. Remember: "If we weren't all crazy we'd go insane"

As I said, if you research the Hinkley and the many many other options available and you still want the Hinkley, go for it! If you can afford the time/money it will take to purchase and maintain her, why not? Every boat purchase is a trade-off.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

*Hinckley Pilot 35 is a great boat !*

I wasn't going to get involved,but when I saw Jeff H's comments.."miserable first boat" and "miserableboats to sail in big winds and short chop",I can't keep quiet. I owned a Pilot 35 for 10 years and no she wasn't my first boat. She was the nicest sailing boat that I've owned and although she was wet,she was very comfortable in all sailing conditions. She often sailed through heavy seas in the Bay of Fundy with great ease. I sold her last year only because I wanted more room for some extended cruising. She would be excellent as a daysailor.
I now sail another of Jeff's favourite CCA designs,a B40. She is a B40 Mark III sloop recently refit with a carbon spar 4 1/2' higher than the original. She almost sails as well as the Pilot.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

And here I was thinking I was the only one that felt this way. See there Jeff, I'm not the only one.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

*Miserable boats to sail ?*

Seabreeze 97, you are not the only one that feels this way.

In a Feb. 27,2007 posting on this board Jeff H said "Boats like the Hinckley Pilot and Bermuda 40 are beautiful boats to look at but miserable boats to sail in any kind of objective way."

I answered with this at that time :

From Practical Sailor re the Hinckley Bermuda 40 :
"Critics are quick to complain that other builders produce boats that are just as good for less money.More often than not,these sentiments are just sour grapes from people who can't afford a Hinckley or even a different brand of comparable quality.While we acknowledge that there are a few builders around the world which build boats to the same exacting level,Hinckley is nonetheless unique in North American boatbuilding."
Practical Sailor concluded:
"Obviously,Hinckleys aren't for everyone.They are expensive and only you can decide whether the many little quality details are worth the cost. As one owner said,"The B40 is to be bought on the day that the full significance of 'you only have one life to live' becomes clear."

Jack Horner wrote in his boat review:
"The Bermuda 40 is a quintessential example of Tripp's art and masterful eye for near-perfect balance.I think it can be said safely that this boat has stood the test of time,and,although the design is now 40 years old,many people,myself among them,still consider the Bermuda 40 one of the most beautiful yachts afloat."
In conclusion Hornor writes:
"The bottom line is these are very expensive boats,but they do retain their value exceptionally well and under some market conditions may even appreciate in value.They're out of my range of affordability but I can still dream of someday being able to own one or,better yet,design a boat of such lasting beauty."

Ferenc Mate' wrote of the B40 :
"without question the greatest fiberglass boat of all time"

John Kretschmer wrote in his Used Boat Notebook:
If you have $150,000 to spend,would you rather have a beautifully reconditioned 1975 B40 or a new 32 foot ABC production boat ? Which boat will be worth more in five years ? Which boat would you rather sail ?
He also writes "From the recessed,frameless portlights to the custom-made stainless steel deck fittings,to the lovely toerail,the boat drips with quality."

I could go on.I don't think that I have ever read a bad review on a B40.

Neither the Pilot 35 or the Bermuda 40 is miserable to sail. Sparkman & Stephens and Bill Tripp did not have reputations for designing miserable sailboats. Both boats are thoroughbreds to sail...I know from personal experience.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

JeffH did say miserable to sail in the "big winds and short chop of SFB". My guess is that given their design (and I've never sailed on one) that they are very wet in those conditions. Certainly boats of similar type that I have sailed on have tended to be wet boats in short chop. Exhilarating for short periods of time but not for cruising.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

While I don't have a B-40 or Pilot 35, I have an adapted version of the S&S Pilot 33 that was enlarged to 35' and is now 38' LOA. You'll typically find me out sailing when everyone else has run for home because of weather. I can tell you first hand that sailing in beam seas during a Force 9 blow, the boat is fairly dry with the exception of thrown spray. Sure, there's green water running down the deck but the cockpit and house stay dry. Yes she's a handful, two to be exact, when running off in big waves because of the barn door rudder but she's predictable in all conditions. When the breeze is up and everybody on their newer plastic fantastics are reefing, she runs off and hides from 'em. I've nothing but good things to say about the way this old boat sails and would be hard pressed to move to a newer design now. Will these old girls perform in the chop? Chop doesn't get much worse than a Pacific swell and 35 knots against a 4 knot ebb, no matter where ya sail.


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## sail1860 (Jun 17, 2008)

Growing up we had a 1965 Hinkley 36' custom yawl. Wood w/wood spars. Nice boat, heavy and sailed nice. 5'-6" draft, we ran aground all the time.
I have never seen another.


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## Daxx (Nov 17, 2010)

*Hinckley*

First off, that's the proper spelling. These are nice boats, but as others have stated, not a good choice for a first boat, and probably not ideally suited for SF Bay conditions. Go with a fiberglass boat such as a 70's era Tartan 41, Ericson 35 or Pearson. Solid, well-built seaworthy and good looking. Also can be had for less than 50K. Good luck.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> I have been sailing on Hinckley Pulots since they were new boats back in the 1950's. While these are beautiful boats to look at they are miserable boats to sail in the kind of big winds and short chop for which San Franscisco Bay is famous. They are high maintenance if you intend to keep one in the kind of pristine condition that is required to maintain resale value and even more expensive if you let one go and take a depreciation hit. They would make a miserable first boat as well, well down near the bottom of my list of recommendations.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jeff


Jeff, Everything under about 40-45' or so is wet and cold going upwind in the summer in SF Bay. There are only very very rare exceptions. Chose your day and course according to the tides and time of day. With a dodger, it won't be any more wet than anything else in the slot on a summer afternoon with the ebb raging away. _(the only boat that was pretty dry that I've been on in those conditions was 60', and that was only behind the mast.) _

The choice? It's tough to agree or disagree with a pilot 35 as a first boat choice as it really depends almost entirely on what (and to what degree) motivates a new sailor. It is certainly a very seaworthy that if well cared for will retain it's value better than most boats. To the OP, I'd say this... there are many many associated costs with running a boat well beyond the purchase price. Be very realistic about these, i.e., do your research. You may luck out and and the boat might really be in great condition, but at *a minimum*, you're going to spend at least 10% of the closing price on addressing immediate needs/repairs/engine work/etc... and much more if there's an engine rebuild, new sails, new hardware, deck work, and the like involved. If you do make an offer and have it accepted, I'd highly recommend having Kent Parker do the survey.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

petmac said:


> I wasn't going to get involved,but when I saw Jeff H's comments.."miserable first boat" and "miserableboats to sail in big winds and short chop",I can't keep quiet. I owned a Pilot 35 for 10 years and no she wasn't my first boat. She was the nicest sailing boat that I've owned and although she was wet,she was very comfortable in all sailing conditions. She often sailed through heavy seas in the Bay of Fundy with great ease. I sold her last year only because I wanted more room for some extended cruising. She would be excellent as a daysailor.
> I now sail another of Jeff's favourite CCA designs,a B40. She is a B40 Mark III sloop recently refit with a carbon spar 4 1/2' higher than the original. She almost sails as well as the Pilot.


Thank you!!! Great post!


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

It's really too bad that Jeff_H's comments appear so early in this thread as they are far more subjective than authoritative. Last spring I read his CCA negative comments that pepper the forums and they did bias me away from a class of vessels that felt "right" for me. Fortunately I listened to my inner voice and purchased a Pilot 35 in May, we are just finishing our first season on her. 72 sailing days and 1500 miles later my wife and I couldn't be happier. She is beautiful, rock solid, sails well, and a real joy to own. We comfortably sailed her for 12 days in New England with three adults and two children. She has been in moderately rough weather several times and rode through like she was made for it. The one race we entered turned out to be a particularly blustery day and only half the boats finished, but 100% of the full-keel boats did. The bottom line is our Hinckley Pilot 35 is an awesome vessel that suits us perfectly.

We like the community that we've joined by owning one of these vessels. We like the feeling of elegance that surrounds us while we sail. We love the solid feeling of the vessel and every system aboard. We love that she has been meticulously maintained. We love having her out in weather and knowing that she'll bring us home. We love the feeling of a classic sailing ship.

If you're looking for a house on the water with private bedrooms, multiple bathrooms, and a living room with a home theatre system then the Pilot 35 is definitely not for you. If you want a sailing vessel that feels like you're sailing then perhaps it is. We've spent a lot of money getting our Pilot but we've felt that every penny has been worth it and we get great satisfaction keeping her maintained. I've noticed a lot of owners of this style vessel feel similarly and enjoy the necessity of upkeep. I also noticed a lot of owners of modern production boats spend their energy fretting over every expense instead of just enjoying their boat.

In the end it is mostly subjective and dependent upon individual lifestyles. Jeff_H's comments are so strong that I'd venture to call them simply wrong. He affected my decision process and I'm glad I chose not to listen when the time came. Our family is not typical so maybe that is why the Pilot fits us so well, but she is the perfect vessel for us....








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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

GeorgeDog said:


> In the end it is mostly subjective and dependent upon individual lifestyles. *Jeff_H's comments are so strong that I'd venture to call them simply wrong*. He affected my decision process and I'm glad I chose not to listen when the time came. Our family is not typical so maybe that is why the Pilot fits us so well, but she is the perfect vessel for us....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed! Lovely boat GeorgeDog!


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