# Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?



## ColdCutterRig (Jul 7, 2012)

Hi Folks,

Long time lurker, first time poster with a question that may rankle.

After over a decade of daysailing and doing short weekend cruises to nearby locations - CA Channel Islands mostly - on our Newport 30 MkII, we've decided to step things up with a larger boat that can handle guests comfortably and has the potential to make long passages in the relatively near future. I'm about four years away from an early retirement and would love to grow into a larger boat so that we can hit the ground (sea) running when I'm no longer office bound.

We've decided on a CC (and please, no arguments of CC vs. AC or recommendations of boats that are not CC monohulls) in the 41-46 foot range. One requirement is that the boat have decent passage berths - an attribute that is strangely hard to find. Another, and this is something that both the SO and I agree on, is *a modern, sleek interior*.

*Contrary to prevailing taste, we tend to like the "european apartment style" look employed by Dehler and Hanse and have absolutely no issue if some of the interior work is done by machine*. Unfortunately, the hull forms, relatively light displacement and cockpit orientation of these brands don't work for us. If we're going bluewater cruising, I'd prefer not to have a giant aft cockpit with dual wheels and a boat that bobs like a cork in a swell.

Can anyone recommend a CC boat in this size range that offers such an interior? *This is an "all things being equal" type of question. It goes without saying that the boat needs to be seakindly and beefy*. I'd prefer a sharper bow entry as opposed to the flatter bottoms we're seeing these days. It'd also be great to have the option for a cutter/dual headsail rig.

While I know that boats like Hylas are semi-custom, does that extend to the look/design of the interior fit out? Everything I see on the websites of makers like Hylas, Passport and even HR looks a bit too old fashioned for our tastes.

Also, both cost and sheer size come into play here. We'd like to keep the price below seven figures if possible and the size under 46. As someone who grew up sailing of and on, I'm stunned at how large cruising yachts have gotten. I'm neither a pauper nor an ocean racer but the fact that Hylas' smallest model is a 46 is pretty intimidating.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
CCR


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## meridiansahoy (Jul 7, 2012)

Hey CCR! Just so happens that we are looking at similar requirements but I'd assume a different price range. I love the look of CC but have so far haven't actually done a passage on one. 

I'm looking at a Kelly Peterson 44 or Adams 12/13 (in the CC configuration) at the moment. Looked at a few Hylas but out of my price range and a little too beamy for my liking.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

CCR,

In your price range there are an incredible number of options. To be honest at the price range you are considering I would seriously recommend moving up in size to a larger boat. The difference in livability is significant, and I can tell you from personal experience going larger is not really that much more difficult if the boat is rigged properly. Past around 40' nothing can be manipulated by hand anyway. But a larger boat will be more sea kindly, make faster passages, and be easier to live on full time.

If you would consider a larger boat my recomendations would be a 54' Irwin Cutter (I lived aboard on on and off for 10 years), if you can find one a Deerfoot 61 CC, 


If you are set on 46' max, then you still have a huge variety of options. In your price range, you could go with a new semi-custom, Oyster, Hinkley, ect... I can't say there aren't any, but even the best of the best would likely be under $1,000,000. In this price range you could also have a custom boat built to your specs. Figure about a year and a half for design plus construction.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

Don't know where you are living (or shopping), but there is a very nice KP 44 coming onto the market in San Diego soon. I know the couple that completed a cruise to central America on it and have returned to being "dirt people" as another retired cruiser puts it.
PM me for contact info if interested.
I did a long delivery on that boat and can testify that it has a smooth and comfy motion in big seas.

L


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## meridiansahoy (Jul 7, 2012)

Hi Olson,

Is that this one?

1978 Kelly Peterson Center cockpit Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Unfortunately I can't private message you because I'm a new member.

Cheers
Hugh


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

I am guessing if coldcutterrig is talking Hylas, and a modern interior then KP44's are probably out.

Welcome to Sailnet to both of you 

For a modern bluewater Centre Cockpit have a look at the aussie made MCY 46 built by Martz Cruising Yachts.

My yacht is a 35ft 20 year old Centre Cockpit Martz and I am very happy with it.

Being a niche builder, they are very open to owner input.




























Reviews here

Bow 2 Stern - Queensland's Free Boating Publication - Martz Cruising Yachts

http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/martz.html


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

ColdCutterRig said:


> We've decided on a CC (and please, no arguments of CC vs. AC or recommendations of boats that are not CC monohulls) in the 41-46 foot range. One requirement is that the boat have decent passage berths - an attribute that is strangely hard to find. Another, and this is something that both the SO and I agree on, is *a modern, sleek interior*.


Somewhat to my surprise I bought a CC boat. I fully expected to purchase an AC but my other requirements drove me to a CC and now I could not be happier.

If you expect to spend any time in slips (US terminology) I fully agree with your size range (mine was 38' - 43'). The price goes up and importantly the availability goes down. If there is nowhere you fit available it doesn't make any difference how much the slip costs.

That said I think the requirement for "decent passage berths" is overstated. On my HR 40 I chose a pair of armchairs to port in lieu of the standard settee. Many of my acquaintances insisted I was making a huge mistake. Now they come aboard and make a beeline for the chairs; I make them sit on the settee. *grin*

Seriously, with a crew of four (including me) we have no issues offshore. There is a settee to starboard with a lee cloth, a nice space on the floor between the chairs and the table (I have a roll-up pad for that spot), the walkthrough by the engine (another pad), and the aft centre queen with lee cloths. In calm weather the v-berth is lovely. The key to making that work is heads at the base of the companionway so people aren't stepping over each other. Heads in that location also reduces dragging water aboard when things get sporting.



ColdCutterRig said:


> *Contrary to prevailing taste, we tend to like the "european apartment style" look employed by Dehler and Hanse*


*

I looked at the Hanse 445. My interpretation of your desires is light woods and lots of white. Simple, elegant fixtures. Is that correct? I think my taste is more classic than yours, but I still selected a very light fabric for the furniture on Auspicious. That means mahogany over a dark cream color instead of white over something darker. The mahogany is certainly a bit darker than the much lighter colors Hanse tends to use for woodwork.

If you're going to buy new I'd look at the HR43 and get a broker to get a set of the fabric choices and see if some choice really speaks to you.



ColdCutterRig said:



Can anyone recommend a CC boat in this size range that offers such an interior? This is an "all things being equal" type of question. It goes without saying that the boat needs to be seakindly and beefy. I'd prefer a sharper bow entry as opposed to the flatter bottoms we're seeing these days. It'd also be great to have the option for a cutter/dual headsail rig.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Don't give up on the cutter, particularly with a removable inner forestay. Outstanding flexibility inshore and offshore.



ColdCutterRig said:



Also, both cost and sheer size come into play here. We'd like to keep the price below seven figures if possible and the size under 46.

Click to expand...

Right. I had the same problem. Swan, Oyster, Hylas, Moody - so many builders simply didn't make anything small enough.*


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Najad makes a whole range of center cockpit boats under 46 feet, if memory serves. These are very well built, blue water capable boats. This video will give you an idea of how a 44 cc looks below (no, I don't sell Najads).


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Besides Najad and Halberg Rassy some other options:

C 1250 - C-Yacht Zeiljachten

Southerly 420

Oyster Yachts | Fleet | 46 | Overview

Sunbeam 42 - Innenraum

Contest Yachts | 45CS

Malö 43


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Some more:

Rustler 42

Nordship Yachts Denmark - Forside

http://en.delphiayachts.eu/yacht/delphia-46cc

There are more, specially on the North of Europe but I am getting old and the names slip my mind


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## ColdCutterRig (Jul 7, 2012)

@ PCP 

Thanks for the link to Delphia. The 46cc looks sort of like an Oyster but for what appears to be significantly less money. They appear to have dealers in the USA so I should probably check them out.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Delphias are strong well made boats. One 40ft solo circumnavigated non stop recently.

Owner of Delphia 40-3 sails the world single handed.





The boat is a CC version of the Delphia 47:


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

ColdCutterRig said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Long time lurker, first time poster with a question that may rankle.
> 
> ...


Cold - one of the premier yacht designers is on this forum. You've probably heard of him, BobPerry. You really should talk to him. He works with clients as a consultant to help them figure out exactly what's best for them. Or, he can design exactly what you want.

And he's a really cool dude.

Here's his member page where you can send him a PM:

SailNet Community - View Profile: bobperry

Or you can find him here:

Robert H Perry Yachts Designers Inc. Home Page


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## ColdCutterRig (Jul 7, 2012)

@smackdaddy

Thanks for the tip about Bob Perry. Of course I'm familiar with the guy, he's an absolute legend in yacht design. I'll send him a PM.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Cold:
I'm no legend. God knows I am as far from a "cool dude" as you could find. But, I have to admit Smackers and I get along just fine. "Cool" is relative. I'm just a guy sitting here with two dogs who has spent the past 52 years devoting his life to designing sail boats. Apart from that I am as dumb as a stump.

Oh,,,I do know a thing or two about "classical" music, wine I am an audipophile ( audiofool) and I play a mean bass. So I'm not a total wastrell. ( wasterelle, waystrell, weighstrell) 
Still can't spell.

Crab seqason opened last week. Finally got our pot down yesterday. We got four. My wife says we got five. I called BS on the 5th one. I threw it back. Poor baby. I want to be in full compliance.

Crab for dinner tonight.
Crab and M. Ward on the record player.


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## ColdCutterRig (Jul 7, 2012)

Bob, 

You just literally made me laugh out loud. As I'm stuck working today, the humor is certainly welcome. 

When I get some free time, I'll send you a pm.


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## Sonadora (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah, Bob's pretty good at that yacht designer stuff.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

With your "under 7 figures" budget, you should have plenty of options. How about these:

Passport 456CC
Najad 410 or 440

Maybe stretch to an Outbound 52?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Don't buy until you have looked at an Amel. Really solid blue water boats. Highest no of circumnavigations related to percentage sold of any major production boat.


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## ColdCutterRig (Jul 7, 2012)

Is anyone familiar with Southerly? Their new 420 looks quite nice. A swing keel was not on my wish list but I've got to admit it makes the kind of exploring I'd eventually want to do more of a possibility. 

I also recently saw a writeup on Gunfleet - a new company started by one of the people from Oyster, I believe. Their 43 looks amazing but I've heard it's pricey, like nearly $1 million US for sailaway.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

bobperry said:


> I'm no legend.


Bob, if you're not a legend you'll have to be an institution - your choice. 

Oh, by the by, it's *Wastrel* and that's not a bad thing to be at our age.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

CCR, if you can get away, you might consider the Miami Boat Show next month. We made the Annapolis and Chicago shows and if a picture tells a thousand words, walking the boats, talking to the reps and being able to compare them almost side by side, tells a million words. They might not have what you are looking for but you'll get a great feel for what's out there and you may even find yourself moving a bit on your position.

When I read your first post I immediately thought a slightly used Swan but to get the center cockpit I think you'd have to go back enough years where you'd lose the modern look. I've been looking for classic looks so there may be some more recent Swans that have the CC.

At Annapolis we got message the bulk of today's buyers want the European look. They also want party cockpits and boats that don't require a lot of sailing knowledge (joystick controls comes to mind). The oohs and aahs we heard were mostly for boats like the Beneteau Sense, a boat, that when we boarded her, made me think, "Party Central!!!", but would probably spend most of its life at the dock.

We were disappointed Swan, Hinkley, Shannon (except that ugly 53) and a few other premier makers weren't there. But Oyster had a couple, HR & Sabre each had one, and a few others that make my heart pitter-patter. 

But center cockpits were hard to find. The only one that comes to mind is the Island Packet 465. And if you're not hell-bent on speed, that may be a boat to look at. 

Good luck!
Julie

BTW, I got a chance to spend some time with Bob Johnson (IP designer) at the Chicago show. He was very approachable and seems like the kind of guy you can call and he'll actually talk to you. I'm not an IP fan but after our time together I have become a Bob Johnson fan.


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## Fugam (Jun 1, 2014)

I visited the Southerly factory (which is near Chichester in the UK) and stood in the latest, part-built 420 (I think hull no. 6) -- very much worth a closer look. It is a great looking boat, built with superb quality and craftsmanship, and is very well laid out: deck saloon, huge aft cabin, walk in engine room, etc., etc., etc..

I have chartered an aft cockpit Southerly 42RST a couple of times, which is a similar design: they sail very well with a deep swing keel and careful weight distribution and are especially well set up for short-handed crew: fractional rig, self-tacking jib, electric winch for lines run to the cockpit, etc.

The 420 is quite an expensive design (more so than the 42RST); its front saloon windows are bespoke (custom) made with a complex curves, which to me is a rather excessive, fussy detail, but the overall result is good, aesthetically.

A 420 (that hull) will be on display at the 2014 Southampton boat show. (And I plan to visit).

Unfortunately, I could not justify the price tag... just yet.

Happy hunting!


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## Fugam (Jun 1, 2014)

ColdCutterRig said:


> Is anyone familiar with Southerly? Their new 420 looks quite nice. A swing keel was not on my wish list but I've got to admit it makes the kind of exploring I'd eventually want to do more of a possibility.
> 
> I also recently saw a writeup on Gunfleet - a new company started by one of the people from Oyster, I believe. Their 43 looks amazing but I've heard it's pricey, like nearly $1 million US for sailaway.


See above. F


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