# Best Offshore Foulies?



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm soliciting opinions as I line up my first blue-water delivery crewing opportunities here. I'm thinking my Goretex rain suit I use bicycling will not cut it in the Atlantic in April. 

I have had some success with Henri Lloyd bib overalls and like the Helly Hansen gear, but I had heard very good things about Jeantex, a German company that more than one vendor has suggested is better than some other companies, where the quality is not what it once was. 

I'm a big, gorilla-shaped bugger, especially in the neck, chest and shoulders, so fit is important. I anticipate the usual layers beneath the foulies.

Cost is not an issue if the value is there, as I realize I'll own these foulies for years and in all weathers. If I'm doing tricks at the helm with water coming down the deck, I need to stay warm and as dry as possible.

I prefer a separate harness/PFD rather than integral. I already have a decent pair of Gill sea boots, but welcome suggestions as to gloves.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

My OPINIONS (Thry are only opinions, so take them as such)

I have really been impressed with Gil Products. Their offshore stuff is nice.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...uct/10001/-1/10001/251171/10001/11051/11209/1

Depending on the model, it is my undersatndin Lloyd makes the West Marine stuff??? THat is what I was told. I personally own the Third reef stuff. Ok for what we do. Long time offshore, I would go with the Gil Products. As far as Bibs, here are the Gills:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...uct/10001/-1/10001/247735/10001/11053/11209/1

If you are heading south, I would save my money on awesome offshore geat and get a really nice, thin jacket. Goretex, big pockets, etc. That is about all you will wear. It was not unusual to see me in my bathing suit bottoms and a full jacket on top!! Just me, though.

- CD

PS I would not buy a grey outfit. Not sure why they even sell those. Red or yellow only.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I like the Musto gear for offshore work. I am hard to fit, since I am relatively short but have fairly large shoulders and a very large neck. My suit is size is a 44 XS, and I wear dress shirts that have an 18" neck on them, but I'm only 5' 4". 

The Musto MPX I have is cut so that I can wear it with three or four layers underneath without much problem. The only issue for me is that the sleeves are a bit long on me...but once I've snugged up the cuffs, that isn't really an issue anymore.

The double cuffs, a latex or neoprene inner one, and the jacket sleeve outer one are key for keeping dry, as if you're reaching up to adjust something, a jacket that doesn't have double cuffs will often let water run down your arm and soak your torso.

Gloves-I wear either a set of Serius gloves, which I got at REI, or when it is colder or I don't need as much fine dexterity, a heavier neoprene set of Stearns gloves I bought at a commercial fishing supply house.

For colors, I'd agree with CD-Red or yellow only... Blue, green, black, grey, or white can easily blend into the ocean. Yellow is marginally better than Red, since it is more visible at night. Also, make sure that the jacket has SOLAS-approved retroreflective patches on it.

For a PFD/Harness, the one I use everyday is a Spinlock Deckware Pro harness/PFD. Unfortunately, at least when I bought mine, it wasn't USCG approved yet.... but it is SOLAS approved. Unlike most other PFD and harness combinations, the harness on the Spinlock is extremely easy to get in and out of and very easy to adjust to various thicknesses of clothing. It also comes with a few things that are really a requirement for a bluewater PFD-thighs straps, so you can't fall out the bottom; a safety whistle; a strobe; and most importantly, a sprayhood. The sprayhood helps keep you from drowning in heavy seas, by protecting your face.

They have a newer design out called the Deckvest, but I like the older one better. The Deckvest has less buoyancy (150N vs. 180N) and the leg straps are optional.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> If you are heading south, I would save my money on awesome offshore geat and get a really nice, thin jacket. Goretex, big pockets, etc. That is about all you will wear. It was not unusual to see me in my bathing suit bottoms and a full jacket on top!! Just me, though.
> 
> - CD
> 
> PS I would not buy a grey outfit. Not sure why they even sell those. Red or yellow only.


Thanks, CD. I already have a number of decent jackets and even "rain pants" as I cycle year-round in Toronto, which means I get pelted with slush three months of the year. (Not this year, though.) The jacket and jockstrap look will suit me fine...once we clear coastal waters!

Red or yellow or orange were my only choices from day one.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> For a PFD/Harness, the one I use everyday is a Spinlock Deckware Pro harness/PFD. Unfortunately, at least when I bought mine, it wasn't USCG approved yet.... but it is SOLAS approved. Unlike most other PFD and harness combinations, the harness on the Spinlock is extremely easy to get in and out of and very easy to adjust to various thicknesses of clothing. It also comes with a few things that are really a requirement for a bluewater PFD-thighs straps, so you can't fall out the bottom; a safety whistle; a strobe; and most importantly, a sprayhood. The sprayhood helps keep you from drowning in heavy seas, by protecting your face.
> 
> They have a newer design out called the Deckvest, but I like the older one better. The Deckvest has less buoyancy (150N vs. 180N) and the leg straps are optional.


My, what a little tank you are, Sir! I'm built like a soccer hooligan, and I take 18 1/2"! But I'll check out the Musto gear. I get them confused a bit with Mustang, which is not the same thing at all.

Not American, and don't care about USCG approval. I find they are about five years behind the curve anyway, as befits their governmental origins. SOLAS is the gold standard, and that's good enough for me. That Spinlock gear is unlike anything else I've seen outside a rockface-supply store. I wanted at least a crotch strap with any harness I bought (I just have a brutal old Likiris at the moment, with a Wichard tether, both past their prime), because I fear going over and *inverting*, surely not an ideal scenario if the boat's making seven knots... If the D-ring can "hang high" the odds of that to my mind are greatly reduced.

I'll check it out. I like their deck hardware, but I had no idea they made harnesses.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Not American, and don't care about USCG approval. I find they are about five years behind the curve anyway, as befits their governmental origins. SOLAS is the gold standard, and that's good enough for me. That Spinlock gear is unlike anything else I've seen outside a rockface-supply store. I wanted at least a crotch strap with any harness I bought (I just have a brutal old Likiris at the moment, with a Wichard tether, both past their prime), because I fear going over and *inverting*, surely not an ideal scenario if the boat's making seven knots... If the D-ring can "hang high" the odds of that to my mind are greatly reduced.
> 
> I'll check it out. I like their deck hardware, but I had no idea they made harnesses.


Actually, the Deckware series of gear is made in partnership with Petzl, the climbing hardware manufacturer... so I'm not surprised it reminds you of rock-climbing gear.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Actually, the Deckware series of gear is made in partnership with Petzl, the climbing hardware manufacturer... so I'm not surprised it reminds you of rock-climbing gear.


I checked out that harness and it just goes to "large" or 46 inches in the chest.

That's not going to cut it. I'm a 48-50 in a suit and add a couple of inches for that for foulies, sweaters, etc. I'm about the size of that Brad van Liew distance sailor.

Maybe I should e-mail him...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*I no longer use...*

Marine foulies and use alpine climbing gear. I have owned both Lloyd and Musto and my wife has a Gil but prefers her Arctyrx jacket to the Gil. Of all the marine foulies the Musto is best but still not as comfortable as an alpine style ascent jacket. Both my Lloyd and Musto are uncomfortable and hard to move in and it feels like I'm wearing a firemans suit. The heavier marine foulies also don't breathe worth a darn due to the extra heavy (read overkill) fabric..


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Valiente-
This is one of the few really good reasons to get to any of the really large sailboat shows. A good fit, especially in the collar and hood, is priceless and it makes the difference between loving and hating your foulies. Go to a show, take a bag full of bulky clothes, and do some trying-on.
I suspect that if you email about the harness size, they will find a way to make one up for you with a larger chest strap.


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## svsirius (Jan 14, 2007)

I have owned both Henri Lloyd and Musto offshore. My Lloyds were the old style pre-Gortex/breathable fabrics but indestructible. My Musto's are lighter and more comfortable - no feel for idestructablility as they are only 2yrs old now. Both are great suits get the one that fits better. As far as harnesses go, get an inflatable lifejacket with a harness, you are not working bow on a 50' ocean racer - you are doing a delivery, the climbing harnesses are more comfortable if you are doing acrobatics at the bow and up the mast -- you should not have to do either on a delivery.

Safety is the driver, the inflatable lifejacket with whistle, strobe etc is more important and having the harness built in is that much better. Also don't forget a good tether -- ideally with two leads [on short one long].


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Valiente,

You are welcome.

By the way, don't spend a zillion dollars on the a jacket for down south. After a couple of years (or less, depending where you hang it when it is wet) it will get this damned mildew in it and the "waterproffness" (is that the word) does not work worth a crap. Also, in my uneducated opinion, I buy one size larger so I can really spin a winch and just in case I need to layer-up. That is just me, though. A good, snug fitting jacket will suck. Besides, the larger jacket is great to pull over you on the long nights offshore while you are "standing watch".

Take care. Good luck.

- CD


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

svsirius said:


> As far as harnesses go, get an inflatable lifejacket with a harness, you are not working bow on a 50' ocean racer - you are doing a delivery, the climbing harnesses are more comfortable if you are doing acrobatics at the bow and up the mast -- you should not have to do either on a delivery.
> 
> Safety is the driver, the inflatable lifejacket with whistle, strobe etc is more important and having the harness built in is that much better. Also don't forget a good tether -- ideally with two leads [on short one long].


I'm looking at a Stearns for the PFD/harness combo...but as I already have for Lake Ontario a SOSpenders PFD with whistle, light, knife, etc. and a Likiris harness...I thought I'd upgrade for the 2009-14 circ for which an April delivery will be a warm-up.

I agree about the two-tailed tether...anyone got a preference, or should I follow the recent Practical Sailor article advice?


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Valiente,
> 
> You are welcome.
> 
> By the way, don't spend a zillion dollars on the a jacket for down south. After a couple of years (or less, depending where you hang it when it is wet) it will get this damned mildew in it and the "waterproffness" (is that the word) does not work worth a crap. Also, in my uneducated opinion, I buy one size larger so I can really spin a winch and just in case I need to layer-up. That is just me, though. A good, snug fitting jacket will suck. Besides, the larger jacket is great to pull over you on the long nights offshore while you are "standing watch".


I already have a decent Goretex "rain suit" (actually made for skiing) that I layer with a fleece or two or even a second, slightly smaller Goretex jacket. This is in fact my winter gear (I don't do parkas anymore) because I bicycle on some very cold, but dry days (today it's -2 F/-19 C in Toronto), and I sail in early May to mid-November. This is the sort of get-up I would wear generally, but I think I need something a little better to keep green water from running down my neck, arms and legs if I have to spend four hours at the wheel in 30 knots close-hauled. If I am to help on a delivery in April from Tortola to North Carolina, long tacks are a real possibility, as are big following waves and sloshiness from the Gulf Stream. I've seen the Irish Sea and the English Channel (not as a small-boat sailor, however, as a middle-sized boat passenger) and I have the sense of how wearing relatively mild, but persistent chill and damp can get.

The fact is that a lot of deck time is spent not moving a hell of a lot. That's when you can get chilled...it's like waiting for a bus in an early spring rain...it's worse than a snowstorm!

But the suggestions are very good, guys...thanks. Musto is going to be investigated, and the Alpine harness sounds great. Due to biking, I already have decent diving gloves and know how to keep hands, head and feet warm and dry.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Caliente-
I thought last round in PS gave top place to the Crewfit (hard to find in the US) followed by the Mustang ?

I think the new two-thigh straps might be nice if you're going to stay suited up all day every day, but a simpler single crotch strap (less to foul, too) always worked on my dive gear. That's what I added to my PFD years ago, back when they were still un-legalized and crotch straps were unknown.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> I think the new two-thigh straps might be nice if you're going to stay suited up all day every day, but a simpler single crotch strap (less to foul, too) always worked on my dive gear. That's what I added to my PFD years ago, back when they were still un-legalized and crotch straps were unknown.


Good idea. I had actually considered asking my sailmaker to sew a length of webbing with loops at either end...one over the "belt" of a PFD w/harness and the other to a standard D ring. Then I clip the tether to three rings instead of two. A tailored fit for the manly sailor, naturally!


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