# kerosene stoves.. WHAT HAPPENED!



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

So i am about to drop a real stove in my Islander 29 (up till now it has had only a little camping butane) and i was adamant that it was to be a kerosene stove, preferably w/oven... the reason being, although i plan on quiting, i smoke and propane scares the daylights out of me, and i like to eat the same day that i start to cook .. so alcohol is out. 

so i go surfing, and everything .. EVERYTHING is propane.. 

WHY???

are we such an MTV society that the 2 minute priming time is just so unacceptable? 

the only options it seems i have are Wallas (insanely high priced) or Dickinsen (insanely heavy and not exactly light on the pocket book either).


WHAT HAPPENED??


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## Morgan3820 (Dec 21, 2006)

I had one along with a Force 10 kero heater. I wouldn't say that I hated them But the preheat thing got old after awhile (particularly if it flared up) and there is an odor. I'm installing a propane heater and stove in my new boat


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

with proper detectors/alarms/install you should not have any trouble with a propane system. If there is enough propane in your boat for you to go kaboom while you are smoking; it definitely should have been sensed by the alarm or you would have smelled it before lighting the match. Another option is compressed natural gas (CNG) as it is lighter than air than propane; conversion to CNG is pretty easy on most new stoves. The blue water cruiser's choice would be alcohol because you can get it almost anywhere (or possibly make it yourself if in a pinch).

JMHO/HTH...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If you truly don't want the propane issues to deal with, our experience with alcohol (10 yrs with a pressurized version) is that the slow cooking is true, but not as big a deal as you might think and can be planned around to some extent.

The preheat and the fumes of that operation were the biggest turn offs, along with the rising cost of the high grade alcohol for the pressurized stove.

The Origo wick style alcohol stoves do away with that, being able to burn cheap methyl hydrate.

But with caution and good procedures, propane is a much better, more efficient and economical system, and we have no desire to go back to alcohol.


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## Trekka (Jul 16, 2006)

I had a kero stove for 20 yrs. Was an Optimus self priming, so no alcohol needed. But then I bought a boat with propane stove & oven. It's really the way to go. So much easier and less odor, no spills. The safety procedures and gear, like sniffers and solenoid shut-offs are so well developed there is no need for worry as long as you use them. Just do it. You won't look back.


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## dsmylie (Feb 23, 2006)

I switched from propane to non-presurized alcohol and have noticed no appreciable difference in cooking time. Alcohol is very simple to use. I just did not want the expense and hassel of doing propane the right way and have been very happy with my decision.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

RRgane,

If you are set on a kerosene unit, I would highly recommend the Taylors. Taylor is out of the UK, and there they call them "parrafin" rather than kerosene stoves. That might help your internet search. We had the -030 Cooker (which has two stove burners and an oven) for many years and it is a very nice unit. I mentioned in another recent thread that the heavy guage brass and stainless metal, as well as the enameled cook top are beautiful, and can almost double as a cabin heater (but it's not vented outside the cabin like a proper heater would be so you'd want to limit your operating time.) 

But be prepared for sticker shock if you get a Taylor, even the little -030 Cooker. They are among the best boat stoves made, and they don't come cheap.

All that said, we now have a propane stove/oven and I wouldn't go back. It's just too easy and clean compered to kerosene (parrafin). No pre-heating, no odor, no residue, etc. But to each their own...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Common sense is what is declining in regards to onboard cooking, not the use of kerosene.

There will always be a group of boaters who defend whatever system they currently have, ignorant to the attributes of propane. This group seems to enjoy repeating the Chicken-Little rants they hear concerning the lack of LPG safety, inevitable doom and impending disaster. Quite frankly, these rants are very boring and tiring.

Any sailor with experience using a proper LPG cooking system in their galley, will dispel these claims as myth. The convenience and efficiency of gas cooking is unmatched by anything else.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

TrueBlue said:


> Common sense is what is declining in regards to onboard cooking, not the use of kerosene.
> 
> There will always be a group of boaters who defend whatever system they currently have, ignorant to the attributes of propane.


God knows any disagreement can't _possibly_ be born of honest disagreement, based on an individual having studied the pros and cons of various options, weighing their own likes and dislikes, evaluating their own needs and making an informed decision. 

Jim


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

SEMIJim said:


> God knows any disagreement can't _possibly_ be born of honest disagreement, based on an individual having studied the pros and cons of various options, weighing their own likes and dislikes, evaluating their own needs and making an informed decision.
> 
> Jim


I will take that comment as a support of my views Jim. 

You obviously are aware that my post was directed to the OP's determination to have no other cooking appliance on his boat, than kerosene.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Gee TB...Grumpy today aren't we?

I don't know about Chicken Little, but here is what I do know; 

-In my lifetime, every case of a sailboat blowing up that I have personal knowledge of has been propane explosion on a boat with propane system and a diesel engine (with one possible exception where a boat was fueled through an abandoned fuel filler and the bilges were filled with gasoline). 

- I have spent too many nervous nights on too many boats searching for a source of leaking propane to ever want propane aboard. 

-Both of which are anecdotal and I don't see anecdotes as suitable proof of anything.

-In the Chicken little with a whole lot of experience with falling sky, when I decided to convert my boat from a propane system to catalyzed alcohol (Origo), I contacted my insurance company about the impact of the change. The insurance company reduced my insurance rates for installing a catalyzed alcohol stove. I questioned whether upgrading the propane system with sniffers and a sniffer actuated shut-off would being my rates down the same amount, and was told that as far as the insurance company was concerned, sniffers and sniffer actuated shut-offs are a good idea, but the hazard still remained the same. 

-Propane/air mixtures are equally explosive as a gasoline air mixtures. Boats with gasoline engines are equipped with blowers and explosion proofed electrical systems that are spark shielded. Blowers are run before starting the engine on a gasoline powered boat. Most propane equipped boats have none of these safeguards.

As for slow, I have already mentioned in an earlier post that in a random test performed at a recent raft up, the Origo was faster than some, slower than other propane burners in heating a measured amount of liquid. I just have not found the Origo burners noticably slower. 

Back to the original post, I like the idea of a diesel stove and water heater, but they are very pricy. 

Jeff


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

RRgane,

As a follow-up to my previous post, it now seems the Taylor "cookers" fall under the Blakes-Lavak corporate umbrella. See them here at:

http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/prod02.htm


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Jeff,

Perhaps I am a bit grumpy this morning; could be that the boat's getting hauled next week, or maybe it's due to those very few boaters who regard those who accept the use of propane on a boat as being irresponsible and foolish.

I have a distinct memory of kerosene fueled stoves as a child in my grandmother's kitchen. Pehaps I grew to dislike the acrid odor of burning kerosene, or the greasy residue that seemed to cling to everything. It's simply not for me. The weight, complications with fume extraction and expense are also distinct negatives to these appliances. 

I never want to go back to using alcohol on a boat either - had that on two boats prior to this one. A huge pain to deal with preheating, flare-ups and long waiting times.

It was alluded that we make informed decisions based upon our life experiences, research, personal likes and dislikes. Your fears outweigh a decision to use LPG on your boat. My experiences have enabled an acceptance of this risk, based upon the intellegence of proper use and numerous associated benefits.


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## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

I used the kerosene camper stoves while camping an on some of the small boats I "camped" on. Keeping the burners cleaned so they would preheat was a pain. Hated the smell and oily mess of fueling them.. any small spill is near impossible to wipe up as the smell last months and when away from town... it is impossible to buy in many areas.

My first "cruiser" a C26 had the pressurized Alcohol stove... major pain to pre-heat and if the alcohol was more than a few months old it would turn into a water alcohol mixture on its own... even in a "well sealed" container but we all know that no such thing exist. Unpressurized units never seem to heat the water for coffee... while I don't mine coffee that has cooled off I MUST has the initial coffee to be HOT. And forget about boiling anything of size or even the simple task of steaming shrimp... it becomes difficult with alcohol systems. You end up eating cans of Vienna sausages... what ever there made of... Alcohol is just too slow and if you take the time to look at flame qualities you will find it is very cool and inefficient in heat transfer... several web sites had comparison when Alcohol systems were thought to be an alternative but in a recent search they no longer seem to be even a point of discussion. Good fuel is also difficult to locate and keep.

Unless you enjoy being a third world caveman and like the difficulties of these systems as a test of your seamanship or man/womanhood most "normal" people would not consider them as a first choice at cooking other than emergency or subsistence level cooking... never gourmet.

While it is obvious that a poorly maintained LP system can be dangerous.. it is by far the best system for real cooking on board a boat... with the exception of the BBQ grill attached to the rail. BBQ is my first choice for fun cooking but the LP system is for real everyday cooking with the least problems and by far the fastest times. Fuel is not always easy but in any community were boating, camping or a few trailers exist.. a source also exist and even the small tanks last some time... and most of us carry 2 or more.

Any Primary cooking system other than LP or CN appears to be unrealistic for a mid sized and up cruiser. IMHO

Of course I'm sure their exist someone who would rather rub two sticks together.


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## dsmylie (Feb 23, 2006)

For the record I am not saying that alcohol is the best setup. I agree that a properly setup and maintained propane system is best for on-board cooking, however it is not cheap! for the cooking I do my alcohol setup is efficient and safe.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

woohoo flame war .. let me get my marshmallows!

seriously, thanks for _every_ opinion.. i did not mean to call into judgment anyone's choice of galley fuel. granted, i was a bit flippant in my dismiss of both of both propane and alcohol.

first off, i lost a friend in a triton to a gasoline explosion. he had gone over to fill up at the fuel dock in pago pago, then went back to his anchorage and lit a cigarette. sloppy yes, and gasoline is not propane i understand. technology with sniffers and sensors have come a long way since then (1976). but, technology breaks down, sensors fail.. far fetched? absolutely .. but when kerosene goes bad, it is just bad kerosene. i am trying hard to make my boat randall(me)-proof. not that i am such an idiot, but i want as few _other_ things to worry about as possible. also in a pinch i can always run diesel through a kerosene stove, so i have an emergency back up fuel.

i get that propane is clean and instant on, but i am at peace with kerosene and it's foibles.

thanks JohnRPollard for the lead on Taylors, i may have a lead on an old Shipmate, but if that doesn't pan i will probably go with one. i certainly like the whole concept of the Wallas, but as above, i do not like relying on technology and putting a circuit board right next to a pair of 8500btu burners makes me skiddish.


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## elspru (Jul 28, 2012)

I was considering kerosene so I looked at this thread,
and it made me realize that really wood is the best way to go.
I love wood, have ever since I was little, and it's abundant, plentiful and cheap, 
can also make pottery or at least earthenware in a wood fire, cups, bowls, spoons .

considering that so many of the wood stoves are so expensive, I might make my own out of ferrocement, or maybe try a rocket stove, though definitely an efficient design.

Also wood is safe, 0 explosion hazard (though may spit embers), can be doused with water.
it makes dry heat, so is great for heating in the winter.
it smells great, looks wonderful, renewable resource.

Also the ash has myrid uses, from making soap, to supplementing calcium and potassium.


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Curious that this thread topic came up. I was just tonite looking across the Web for kero stoves. I am/was considering it as an alternative to alcohol, mostly to maintain similarities in fuels aboard, ie: diesel for the engine and K-1 for the lighting and stove. K-1 in a pinch in the engine, too 
I use propane here at home and have no fear of it, per se; but it does pose some hazards other fuels don't. I'm not familiar with the pressurized alky stoves; just the little brass Swedish surplus wick types. I know they work 'n all; but trying to cook a square meal on one is NOT my idea of culinary fun!


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> Gee TB...Grumpy today aren't we?
> 
> I don't know about Chicken Little, but here is what I do know;
> 
> ...


I have posted several times on SN about my 10+ years with the kero stove/oven on my boat. The only 'downside' is that it takes 3 minutes to pre-heat, a process which I actually enjoy since it makes me realize I am on my boat! It is not true that kerosene smells, at least not when properly pressurized. It does stink when wicked, like in an oil lamp, perhaps people get confused about that.

Kero is very caloric and the ONLY cooking fuel that is available world-wide (OK, I am not counting coal and wood). Cheap, too: 5 gallons of K-1 will set you back 20 bucks but will tide you over for many HUNDREDS of cooked meals.

But the most important is safety. Sure, a perfectly working LPG system is safe. And we all know that technical systems always work perfectly. If not, kaboom!

As Jeff points out, deadly LPG explosions DO happen, this is not a theoretical possibility. YOU make the decision whether you think the convenience of having the stove works just the same as the one at home is worth the potential cost.

It is your life and that of your family that is at stake.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I've been cooking meals on our unpressurized alcohol stove for five seasons and don't understand the mythology of long cooking times. My experience has shown it is just not an issue. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times we have used our bbq grill over the past five seasons, but I use the alcohol stove at least twice a day when aboard. i only wish I had the space for a decent small oven.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

Kerosene isn't cheap anymore, it stinks, it blackens the bottom of the pots. Propane is the fuel of choice around much of the world for a reason.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I have a non-pressurized alcohol stove (an Origo) on my boat and the ONLY drawback I've ever found to it is that it's totally silent (that's actually a plus and a minus: I can't tell just by listening if the stove is on; but, if I'm really, really stealthy, at a dead calm anchorage I can slip out of bed at first light and quietly put on a pot of water for coffee or tea without waking The Admiral). I don't live aboard, so I might long for an oven if I did. But, there are very few things I can't cook on my Origo with a cast-iron skillet/Dutch-oven combo set. A non-pressurized alcohol stove is simpler, safer, and just as effective at cooking as propane. It may be a little slower than a "direct", non-vented kerosene stove (such as a Taylors), but faster than an "indirect", vented kero/diesel stove (such as a Dickinson "Lofoton").

If you want a kero/diesel stove with an oven, look at the Dickinson "Bristol". It's their smallest stove/oven. The stove-top does heat your pots "indirectly" (the flame heats the steel stove-top, which heats your pots and pans), so it's takes a while to get cooking from a cold start. However, it's also vented, so any odors will be minimal or nonexistent if properly set up and used.

Don't let others pooh-pooh your safety concerns. They may not have had any problems with their propane system (yet); but the folks who _have had_ a catastrophic propane accident aren't likely to be around to tell us about it, are they?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

sww914 said:


> Kerosene isn't cheap anymore, it stinks, it blackens the bottom of the pots. Propane is the fuel of choice around much of the world for a reason.


Cost: Just north of 4 bux a gallon in metropolitan NY Average Kerosene Prices - NYSERDA
Much less in many areas of the world. If your travels take you through Venezuela, you can fill your 50 gallon tank for a twenty, and get change, and you will be cooking away for years to come. Beat that!

Smell: nonexistent if properly pressurized. If your kero stove stinks, you are doing something wrong.

"Blackens pots" Same thing. Only if you don't know how to operate it (not exactly rocket science: you did not preheat long enough)

"Propane fuel of choice around much of the world" Poppycock. Did you ever try to refill a propane bottle outside your home country? S'ppose not.

And of course you find kero anywhere in the world, it is the cooking fuel used by more people (billions) than any other. And if for some reason the gas station close to the port does not carry it, just go to any airport and buy jet fuel A; same thing.


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## jimjazzdad (Jul 15, 2008)

The biggest problem with kerosene boat stoves right now is that of availability. AFAIK Optimus and Primus no longer make replacement burners? The Portuguese Hippolita and Patria are no more. Until someone starts marketing Chinese-made copies, its either Taylors spares from the UK (expensive) or buying used parts to keep my Kenyon Homestrand running


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

jimjazzdad said:


> The biggest problem with kerosene boat stoves right now is that of availability. AFAIK Optimus and Primus no longer make replacement burners? The Portuguese Hippolita and Patria are no more. Until someone starts marketing Chinese-made copies, its either Taylors spares from the UK (expensive) or buying used parts to keep my Kenyon Homestrand running


Jimjazzdad,

Sent you a PM about the Kenyon stoves.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> "Propane fuel of choice around much of the world" Poppycock. Did you ever try to refill a propane bottle outside your home country? S'ppose not.
> 
> And of course you find kero anywhere in the world, it is the cooking fuel used by more people (billions) than any other. And if for some reason the gas station close to the port does not carry it, just go to any airport and buy jet fuel A; same thing.


The vast majority of world cruisers use propane with diesel a distant second and only a few kero fans. We have filled our propane tanks all over the world with no difficulties at all. We were set up to connect to foreign tanks but have never had to use them. Propane suppliers in places as diverse as Ecuador, Australia, and South Africa had no difficulty with US fittings.

Had a kerosene stove years ago, you could not pay me enough to use one now. The Origo seems like a good unit but getting fuel conveniently could be a problem.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

All this talk of Kero. there are Diesel stoves and ovens. 
Anyone have experience with Wallas?

Wallas Heater | Boat | Stoves | Cooking Equipment | ScanMarineUSA.com

There are a number of others too Dickinson is one.


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Cost: Just north of 4 bux a gallon in metropolitan NY Average Kerosene Prices - NYSERDA
> Much less in many areas of the world. If your travels take you through Venezuela, you can fill your 50 gallon tank for a twenty, and get change, and you will be cooking away for years to come. Beat that!
> 
> Smell: nonexistent if properly pressurized. If your kero stove stinks, you are doing something wrong.
> ...


Well, I live aboard and I cook on kerosene stove.
Kerosene from gas station at $4 a gallon will stink at ignition and while shutting down when pressurated kerosene escapes. And, I can feel it while burning. I keep my hatch open in winter, while cooking.
Kerosene from West Marine at $25 a gallon and from Home Deport at $15 a gallon will not stink, almost.
I have blackened everything once in a while, not often. I guess I'm bad at maintenance, but old kerosene, the one I bought at $3/gallon a year and half ago can plug the burner...
Most annoying thing is that it doesn't burn as hot as propane. I have one burner kero and I have a propane camping stove. I cook on kero, but I pull out propane when I have guests. It is just faster.
I still love my cooker. IT is simple and I always know how much fuel I have by splashing it inside of the can.I believe that kero is safer.
But I have never had a problem to refuel propane tank on my deliveries of other people boats.


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## Me and Boo (Oct 29, 2011)

The alcohol stove and oven on board were converted from alcohol to diesel by one of the POs, I have not drained the tank of old diesel yet to use it yet.

Until then I am using the world's choice of one burner stoves - butane in a can. Hot and clean. A single can lasts for many meals. I have a half dozen stoves, they are extremely cheap at Asian markets, for use at large gatherings.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

I know this is an older thread but it seems to be still topical.

Does anyone have direct experience with the Origo 6000 stove/oven?

It seems like an easy and safe solution but.....?

http://www.dometic.com/667f2813-7089-4b0c-862d-b39d2e71cd66.fodoc


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

sailpower said:


> I know this is an older thread but it seems to be still topical.
> 
> Does anyone have direct experience with the Origo 6000 stove/oven?
> 
> ...


That's the stock galley range on our '88 boat. We cook and bake with it on every cruise, every year. It's a great stove.
Early in the thread, someone denigrated alcohol stoves for taking "all day" to heat, or somesuch foofaraw. 
That's just not so. A given BTU burner heat output is the same no matter what you "burn" to create those BTU's.

I have cooked with a propane stove for a decade on our prior boat and it's great, too. It does require a quality plumbing installation and special fuel storage, with working sniffer and remote gas shutoff, keep in mind. ($$$)
The present boat galley (we bought this boat in '94) is working great also, with its Origo 6000. It's simple and "it just works."

No really wrong answers, just different choices...
You gotta heat up that coffee somehow...


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Olson, I missed this.

Thanks for the great feedback.


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