# Live aboard costs?



## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

In the next couple of years I plan on traveling across the world on my own sailboat. I've read several posts of what people say it should cost per month, and I just need to know how it's so inexpensive? Obviously there are people who will do it on 5 thousand a month, then there are those that say they do it on 800 a month. Now I'm a minimalist when it comes to material possessions and extravagant spending so I know how to be frugal. If I were as frugal as possible, sailing on a boat that just required regular monthly maintenance, and wanted to travel the world what would you say is a realistic budget to have in mind? (excluding the cost of food).


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

i doubt anyone can answer your question,theres just too many varbles "all things being equal" theres no such animal


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I have an easy answer. It will cost you the same amount as it cost people to live on land! This will also vary as much as people require to live on land.


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## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

CaptainForce said:


> I have an easy answer. It will cost you the same amount as it cost people to live on land! This will also vary as much as people require to live on land.


Could you explain? That's very vague. What I'm looking for is a more detailed answer. What you said really tells me nothing. If someone pays 1800 a month for rent in a house, where is that going to be spent living on a boat? If someone makes over 600 a month in car payments, where will that be spent on a boat? Say I have no car, or those kind of monthly payments, how would I be spending the same amount?


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

mathewsaunders said:


> ... Say I have no car, or those kind of monthly payments, how would I be spending the same amount?


That's the point ...you wouldn't ...either on land...or at sea...

So if your living on $800 a month on land... you should be able to "get by" with that at sea...


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

You've already gotten a couple of good answers. You want it nailed down on the scant information you've given, and that can't be done. For instance, do you plan on having health insurance? Do you plan on needing medical attention in Portugal? Did you know that your keel bolts are shot and need to be replaced? What kind of boat...you didn't say. That's going to make a huge difference. Do you want refrigeration? Liferaft? Radar? What is the cost for a new genoa for your boat....yours just ripped to pieces.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

food will be more expencive,its hard to run down to the a&p and buy food in bulk that needs to be refrigirated,boats break down and boat parts and boat yards and labor ain't cheap,you almost have to spend atleast sometime at a marina[not cheap]the only one i know of who can live on $800 per month on land is either homeless or lives with relatives


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## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

Yeah, these posts are helping huge. In a sense, I'm trying to get a ballpark figure. I don't need to know where every single dime is going, but I would like to know how much regular maintenance on a boat, I don't have one yet so for the sake of discussion we'll say it's 26'. I know next to nothing about boating, so give me a break in terms of brand or type. Now, when I said 800 a month, that was an article I read about someone living on board their sailboat, and I meant it to be 1800 a month, my bad.


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## yoyomau (Feb 5, 2011)

We are just beginning the same adventure of living aboard our boat. Our homes and vehicles are either sold, paid for, or rented out, so we have no land expenses. All of the personal belongings we have are aboard our 31' Dufour sail boat, which by the way, we paid cash for. Everything else has either been sold or given away. We too are minimalists and have a strict budget to adhere to. Since the boat was just recently purchased, we are docked in a marina while making the necessary upgrades for off shore sailing. Your initial start up costs will vary greatly depending on the condition and amenities on your boat. Ours needs a $1200 refrigeration installation, but most everything else has already been done luckily. The marina is $400/mo. and includes electricity, water, wifi, and holding tank pumping. Other than the refrigeration, we have no other expenses except for liability insurance ($500/yr.), food, and a little change for the coin laundry here at the marina. We will also be getting towing insurance from Boat.us (unsure of the cost at this point). By January 1st we will be underway. If you'd like to keep in contact we would be more than happy to respond.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

KEY THING IS WHERE YOU PLAN TO LIVE and WHERE AND HOW YOU MAINTAIN YOUR BOAT. 

Anchor out somewhere with a Walmart in dinghy/walk distance and do minimal diy. $600/month

Marina in Italy $1200/month Shop in the marina market and eat steak/lobster/fresh organic strawberries and eat out well once a week $3000 I have no idea about yard prices in the Med but it is gonna be expensive.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

We(2 of us plus medium sized dog) live very comfortably on about $2,500/mo. Eat out a couple nights a week. Shop at premium food stores. This includes maintenance on a fairly new 40ft. Sailboat. Health insurance is paid by employer right now. Auto insurance is about $800/yr. slip is about $6,000/yr.

We are about 2 years from shoving off on a multi year cruise. We are spending a decent amount to get the systems in the boat as new as possible to minimize costs during our cruise. I do all maintenance myself except for sail making.

So far we have replaced all sails, upgraded most of the canvas, installed a diesel heater, replaced most electronics. New instruments in the spring. Bottom strip in the spring also along with new cutllass bearing. Next year will be new standing rigging with mechanical fittings.

We live debt free so it is fairly easy to afford these upgrades now to make living cheaply easier when we leave. We suspect, based on our lifestyle, we will spend about $30k/yr. that will include high deductible health insurance. We plan to anchor out most of the time and rent slips if we can get a good deal for an extended stay.

You can do it cheaper but we want to have money to spend on land based excursions. This will be an extended vacation for us, not just simply living aboard. We may try to drum up some jobs if we decide to stay in a place for an extended period of time. But they will be low stress fun jobs only. Boat maintnence, deliveries, article writing, etc.


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

I think the problem with a question like you've posted is rather obvious; there's too many variables and without more detailed information, you can't get the answer you're looking for. I always hear people say, "I'm a minimalist", but that too has many meanings. Do you hunt for meat and grow your own vegetables? That type of minimalism? Or are you saying, I don't always buy the new Xbox 360 game until a month after it's been on the market? Tell these folks more, and they'll share more detailed information with you. There seems to be more and more people with the "I want to travel the world on a sailboat" dream and they've never been sailing? What draws you to that idea? And please, don't get offended, but a "love of the sea" is hard to swallow because that would mean you'd be 1/2 there already, right?

I know people who travelled Europe for a year as "minimalists". They stayed only in hostels, at best, slept on the ground more often than I ever would. Barely ate some days and never, ever took a tour to anywhere. They spent about $35,000.00 and I personally thought it was a steal. Keep in mind, there was no boat maintenance, slip fees, dock parties, etc. etc. etc. Had the two of them gone around the world on a sailboat that they already owned and didn't need but average maintenance, we estimated the trip would've cost about $50,000.00 or $25,000.00 per person. And that was as bare-boned as possible. Some countries will charge as much as $1,000.00 or more just to clear customs and sail into their waters. Truth is, they more than likely would've exceeded that amount by quite a bit, because they weren't happy with the trip they took.


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## ArcherBowman (Jul 1, 2009)

Okay - I can help a little with that. On average, all things being equal, depending on your circumstances, including the age of the boat, how "handy" you are doing your own work, the local cost of labor . . .

A good shot in the dark at boat maintenance cost is ABOUT 20% of the purchase cost of the boat per year. Some years you re-power the boat, and you spend a lot more. Some years you just have to haul out and repaint the bottom. It averages out. But this is just a rule of thumb. If you have work done in the northeastern United States, it costs more than if you have it done south Texas.

But if you buy a 20 year old boat that's never had a major refit, stuff's gonna break all the time, and the costs are going to go up.



mathewsaunders said:


> Yeah, these posts are helping huge. In a sense, I'm trying to get a ballpark figure. I don't need to know where every single dime is going, but I would like to know how much regular maintenance on a boat, I don't have one yet so for the sake of discussion we'll say it's 26'. I know next to nothing about boating, so give me a break in terms of brand or type. Now, when I said 800 a month, that was an article I read about someone living on board their sailboat, and I meant it to be 1800 a month, my bad.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Our Boatus costs us $178 a year for their top package.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

It varies enormously as people have said. Check our blog (mentioned below), I have given some price breakdowns for various things over quite a few months cruising. This is for an old 45' boat that we spent a lot of money getting ready. You need to DIY or you can't do it since boat repairs are costly where they are available and not available where they would be cheap (if that makes sense). In poorer countries where not many cruisers go you can get diesel repairs and possibly refrigeration repairs (parts would be an issue in either case) and that is about it.

You do not have monthly maintenance costs because there is nothing buy in most places. You do repairs where you can get the parts eg Grenada and St Marten in the Caribbean are good, Tahiti, NZ, and Oz are good in the Pacific. A bit of stuff available in Fiji and you can stuff sent in cheaply to American Samoa because it is part of USPS. The rest of the South Pacific are hard.

Once you are away from US you probably don't need health insurance because doctors and hospitals are cheap. Make sure you have a very good first aid kit with you including prescription items. Make sure that big items like engine, sails and electronics are in good shape before you go.

Food costs vary hugely: Panama is great for provisioning, local markets (eg Ecuador, Tahiti, and Fiji) are terrfic. Some places are really expensive. 24 beer in Panama was $8; while 24 beer in Oz is around $30.

So people who say it depends are giving you sound advice. It would be nice to have a simple formula or template to use but there really isn't one.

You really need to have a decent emergency fund available for, well, emergencies like major boat, health issues.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Can't agree.*



ArcherBowman said:


> A good shot in the dark at boat maintenance cost is ABOUT 20% of the purchase cost of the boat per year. Some years you re-power the boat, and you spend a lot more. Some years you just have to haul out and repaint the bottom. It averages out. But this is just a rule of thumb. If you have work done in the northeastern United States, it costs more than if you have it done south Texas.
> 
> But if you buy a 20 year old boat that's never had a major refit, stuff's gonna break all the time, and the costs are going to go up.


I have that 20% figure a few times and have no idea where it came from. For starters a newer boat that costs more would higher maintenance costs than an older, el cheapo and that makes no sense. For our boat, this would suggest that we should be spending something like $35,000 a year for maintenance! We don't spend that amount for everything in sailing 20,000 miles + We are now in Oz with a terrific and mildly expensive boat store at the end of the dock. The total cost of upgrading while here will likely be something like $3 or $4k and then we will be good to go for the next 20,000 miles - and we will have to be good because the next good place to work on the boat will be South Africa in a years' time. And this is for a complex boat (water maker, genset, etc) that will be having its 30th birthday next spring. To be fair, before we left on the trip we did spend a lot of money upgrading the boat to modern standards.

I have been trying for a long time to figure out the 20% number and wonder if it would apply to someone buying a new Hinckley and taking it back to Southwest Harbor for inside storage and constant upgrades every year?


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## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

We are also working on our plan. It will be 2 more yrs before we are ready. 

Been doing a lot of research. What we are finding is ppl saying cost per mo have been anywhere from $1000 to $5000 for cpls who each consider themselves low cost ppl.

The differences were in how many times they took tours, eat out, drank fine wines, flew home, rented cars etc, etc. 

Also (I know I'm going to catch he11 for this ) but maintenance items do not always have to be fixed right than and there. Unless it's a safety issue some repairs can wait if they are ever fixed at all. I have read about ppl who never fixed the engine for yrs and learned how to sail into ports. It can be done. PPL were sailing around the world long before diesel engines, AC and refrigeration was invented.

The best way to plan is to set a budget number and make it happen. Only you know what limits that budget will have. If you only have $1000 a month to spend and you find a slip at your favorite marina is $800, guess you can't stay there. If boat, health and life insurance adds up to $800, guess you'll have to drop one or more of them.

You can make the calls to the insurance companies and marinas to find out about the cost. Add it all up on a spread sheet.

As far as the difference between up keep a boat might even be less than a house. Of coarse that depends on a lot of variables but a new furnace, water well or sewer/septic system can be many thousands of dollars.

One more thought to keep in mind. Unless you have a business or investments of some kind that can continue to make money while you're gone your income will quickly drop to near zero. So the money you spend is gone with nothing replacing it. That's something ppl who have jobs most simply don't understand. As a small business owner that's what happens to me every time I go on vacation.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I too, believe that there is no truth in the "20%/year rule of thumb". During our forty years of liveaboard cruising our costs for boat maintenance has varied fom a high of 16K one year to a low of around $200/year. Twenty-six of our forty years have been aboard a 41' sailboat that we have been regularly cruising seasonally from Maine to the Bahamas. This does not incur the cost of circumnavigating, with all the national entry fees, but it does represent at least two to three thousand miles per year. With a mix of anchoring out, mooring, marina fees and diesel fuel/oil we spend an average of $500/month. We typically use dinghy and bicycle transportation, but we sometimes rent a car and we keep a "non-owners" auto liability policy for about $700/year. We also keep liabilty only on our vessel for about $700/year. Our boat is 38 years old and largely DIY maintained. The major items purchased for our boat for the last five years have been: refrigeration compressor and electronic control module unit ($1,900); shaft and dripless shaft seal ($1,200); VHF radio ($150); Garmin GPS 440 ($400); used 45lb Bruce anchor ($100); 150' of 5/8" HT chain at nautical fleas market ($75). With our own occasional cleaning in the water, we haul out and paint, on average, once every three years. Cruising and changing locations greatly reduces bottom growth. We live on far less than our income an continue our travels with added trips away from our home vessel. Cruising can be economical. We choose to only spend $50/month on cell phone & wifi and a major portion of our entertainment comes with free book trades from the marina coin laundry shelves. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

*it's in your approach, I think.*

I get what you are asking. I have similar questions. The best thing I have found to do is read books and articles by those who have done what you intend to do. The first book I picked up on the topic is "How to Sail Around the World," by Hal Roth. Though some of the figures are now a bit dated, you get a budget framework to go by and can adjust for inflation and omit/add factors that might be more relevant to your own situation. Another fantastic resource is "The Voyager's Handbook," by Beth Leonard. She gives you 3 hypothetical scenarios from low budget to middle to wealthy that give a sense of what expenses might look like. With all of this you can look at whatever amount you have to put into your projected cruising budget and gauge what you will be able to afford. And everything I have read advises people to just get out there and do it, sooner rather than later. There will always be one more detail to plan and one more thing to save up for.

By the way, I really appreciate all of the responses from people who give some insight into what their own expenses are like. It really does help. Thanks!


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## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

mrhoneydew said:


> By the way, I really appreciate all of the responses from people who give some insight into what their own expenses are like. It really does help. Thanks!


I agree. We have seen enough of the ppl saying or implying that the OP questions was not good enough. It was a good question because he was asking what others are finding in real time. Of coarse expenses can and will very but eventually a budget can be made and than you'll have to live with it.

Spend to much on one item in one month, do without something the next. What will mess things up is if you do not remain flexible enough month to month to allow for unplanned expenses.


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## 5oclocksomewhere (Apr 8, 2009)

*accounting for non-accountants*

The real margin for error in these estimates is human nature. Few people take the time and dedication to record income and expense in an exact and structured manner. Underestimating expenses and overestimating income is common and not really revealed unless you have exacting records.

I have an OCDish streak when it comes to recording income and expenses, partially because I too want to know the answer to that question, 'when can I shove off?'

I have itemized records of monthly reports for years of living. It has been fun to look back and make a few observations. But what stands out and is useful to this conversation is:

I can only 'average' my expenses on paper, there never has been a month when I hit that number. No two months (or years) have ever been the same. No two line items have ever been the same. I have often missed writing down an expense, but rarely have I missed writing down income (so that month was skewed in a really misleading way)

But hey, the 'wind is free'...


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## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

treilley said:


> We(2 of us plus medium sized dog) live very comfortably on about $2,500/mo. Eat out a couple nights a week. Shop at premium food stores. This includes maintenance on a fairly new 40ft. Sailboat. Health insurance is paid by employer right now. Auto insurance is about $800/yr. slip is about $6,000/yr.
> 
> We are about 2 years from shoving off on a multi year cruise. We are spending a decent amount to get the systems in the boat as new as possible to minimize costs during our cruise. I do all maintenance myself except for sail making.
> 
> ...


By far the most helpful post. Thank you so much. That really breaks it down, I do not see why that was so difficult for the other people on here. But again, thank you so much. 
We plan on doing the exact same thing, we will be completely debt free, and the two of will live on the boat with our small/medium size dog. 
Would you suggest doing it on a 40', or could you get away with a smaller boat? We're looking at the 36' range, but again we have NEVER sailed so I suppose it will depend on us. 
So I guess a better question would be, would you guys be able to do what you are doing now on a 36' boat?


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## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

5oclocksomewhere said:


> But hey, the 'wind is free'...


It absolutely is! Yeah, I'm not looking for exacts. I'm like you, I am OCD when it comes to how much is coming in, and how much is coming out, where I can afford to do this, and when should I save money. This is the only reason I ask. 
From what I've found out, the amount that we will be making from our companies will more than cover all of our expenses. So I guess I can just be thankful for that.


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## mathewsaunders (Nov 16, 2011)

emoney said:


> I think the problem with a question like you've posted is rather obvious; there's too many variables and without more detailed information, you can't get the answer you're looking for. I always hear people say, "I'm a minimalist", but that too has many meanings. Do you hunt for meat and grow your own vegetables? That type of minimalism? Or are you saying, I don't always buy the new Xbox 360 game until a month after it's been on the market? Tell these folks more, and they'll share more detailed information with you. There seems to be more and more people with the "I want to travel the world on a sailboat" dream and they've never been sailing? What draws you to that idea? And please, don't get offended, but a "love of the sea" is hard to swallow because that would mean you'd be 1/2 there already, right?
> 
> I know people who travelled Europe for a year as "minimalists". They stayed only in hostels, at best, slept on the ground more often than I ever would. Barely ate some days and never, ever took a tour to anywhere. They spent about $35,000.00 and I personally thought it was a steal. Keep in mind, there was no boat maintenance, slip fees, dock parties, etc. etc. etc. Had the two of them gone around the world on a sailboat that they already owned and didn't need but average maintenance, we estimated the trip would've cost about $50,000.00 or $25,000.00 per person. And that was as bare-boned as possible. Some countries will charge as much as $1,000.00 or more just to clear customs and sail into their waters. Truth is, they more than likely would've exceeded that amount by quite a bit, because they weren't happy with the trip they took.


Fair enough. Now see, when I say minimalist (as I've mentioned in previous posts) I mean that I do not need a big tv, or big couch, or lots of living space, I can live quite happily with the absolute bare essentials. I do not need extras, just what I need to live. That being said, I do realize it was a vague question, but in no way do I see it as a question so vague that someone would answer with such simple questions.
When living on land, a typical monthly income would be distributed as such;
35% will go to rent, 10% savings, 25% other living expenses, 15% debt, and 15% transportation. Now, I do not need specifics, just a general outline of where my fund will be going.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

bumfuzzle | Cost of Sailing Around the World

They cruised around the world on a sailboat and thats what their costs were.

Truth be told, it will cost you what you have.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

mathewsaunders said:


> Fair enough. Now see, when I say minimalist (as I've mentioned in previous posts) I mean that I do not need a big tv, or big couch, or lots of living space, I can live quite happily with the absolute bare essentials. I do not need extras, just what I need to live. That being said, I do realize it was a vague question, but in no way do I see it as a question so vague that someone would answer with such simple questions.
> When living on land, a typical monthly income would be distributed as such;
> 35% will go to rent, 10% savings, 25% other living expenses, 15% debt, and 15% transportation. Now, I do not need specifics, just a general outline of where my fund will be going.


This kind of thinking wont apply in the boating world. Frankly because boating lifestyles are just too different than land lifestyles. Example - on land you pay rent and have a car payment...near universal truths.

On water living, you can liveaboard at a marina or on the hook. Depending on the mode chosen, you have entirely different cost structures. Marina life has a monthly rent. Anchor life has dinghy costs, pumpout costs, etc....and they vary way too much.

Whats important is to figure out the lifestyle you want to live as a liveaboard and then build up a cost model based on that. Yes, being a minimalist is all well and good...but its a special kind of misery to be a minimalist and have no water because you didn't fill up your tanks!


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

mathewsaunders said:


> By far the most helpful post. Thank you so much. That really breaks it down, I do not see why that was so difficult for the other people on here. But again, thank you so much.
> We plan on doing the exact same thing, we will be completely debt free, and the two of will live on the boat with our small/medium size dog.
> Would you suggest doing it on a 40', or could you get away with a smaller boat? We're looking at the 36' range, but again we have NEVER sailed so I suppose it will depend on us.
> So I guess a better question would be, would you guys be able to do what you are doing now on a 36' boat?


Mathew, that all depends on the boat. A J36 is much different from an Island Packet 36. We had an Ericson 35 and felt it would not be suitable. Although that was more to do with the layout and our planned sailing grounds than it did on size.

We feel the Caliber 40lrc is ideal for living aboard and also cruising long distance.

I know couples who live on a Catalina 27 and another on a Downeaster 32.

My wife and I are very sailing performance oriented so the boat had to sail well first and then be a good live-aboard. An IP would have fit the bill for a LA boat bot we did not like the sailing characteristics. If you simply want to live aboard and do some occasional coastal cruising than buy it for the comfort factor.


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## dmcMaine (Sep 1, 2010)

mathewsaunders said:


> Fair enough. Now see, when I say minimalist (as I've mentioned in previous posts) I mean that I do not need a big tv, or big couch, or lots of living space, I can live quite happily with the absolute bare essentials. I do not need extras, just what I need to live. That being said, I do realize it was a vague question, but in no way do I see it as a question so vague that someone would answer with such simple questions.
> When living on land, a typical monthly income would be distributed as such;
> 35% will go to rent, 10% savings, 25% other living expenses, 15% debt, and 15% transportation. Now, I do not need specifics, just a general outline of where my fund will be going.


The problem is the budget doesn't quite work that way, depending on what you mean by live aboard. Living aboard at a marina is far far different than full time cruising. Tim lives aboard his boat, but also maintains a home marina with all the associated costs. His expenses are fairly predictable and more closely resemble land-based living. But an extended cruise requires a different type of budgeting. There are 'at sea' expenses (food, fuel, wear-and-tear on equipment), and 'in port' expenses (food, fuel, marina costs, entertainment, etc.). The amount of time you spend at sea vs. in port will cause expenses to vary widely month to month, as will which port you are in at the time.

In your OP you said "travel the world". So what you need to do is work on a longer range budget, and view monthly expenses from there.

For example, where are you starting your travels from? Where are you going? How long do you plan on taking to get there? How long will you stay before moving on? Those are all huge questions that determine budget. Leaving from New York to spend a year cruising the Carribean will have a different budget than leaving LA for the south Pacific.

At a minimum you should look at different possible itineraries. There are quite a few cruising websites and resources that show common cruising itineraries. Then calculate minimum costs for them: fuel, maintenance reserves, food, customs fees, marina fees, local entertainment, etc. Don't forget any insurance you plan to carry as well.

If you plan on transiting Panama, or Suez, you need to build that into the budget. And you need to plan around weather windows on your intended route as well, which could mean extended stays at some locations.

That's why a vague question leads to simply more questions. It really does depend.

James Baldwin has a pretty good QA on his site 'atomvoyages.com'.
Atom Voyages | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).



> 2. How much does it cost to go cruising?
> 
> The short answer: as much as you've got.


(but read the long answer too!  )


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## sep2x (Oct 26, 2011)

treilley said:


> Mathew, that all depends on the boat. A J36 is much different from an Island Packet 36. We had an Ericson 35 and felt it would not be suitable. Although that was more to do with the layout and our planned sailing grounds than it did on size.
> 
> We feel the Caliber 40lrc is ideal for living aboard and also cruising long distance.
> 
> ...


We are the couple on the Downeaster 32, and she is plenty big enough for us right now! We envy folks with larger boats, but know that our 'Seabird' is the largest boat we can afford at this time. Our marina fees are the biggest expense, about $5,700 per year at the marina we're at now, but they vary widely depending on where you go or what you're willing to put up with. If we lived on the hook for the summer, for example, we could save a lot of money -- but we love the convenience of just walking up the dock to land.

I am starting a new website, MaineLiveaboards | Where Mainers living on their boats can connect., that you should check out. We will try to come up with some sample "budgets" for different liveaboard styles. The problem is that people try to come up with a solid estimate of cost before they know all the variables yet. What part of the country will you be living in? Will you have a marina that includes parking? Will you be on the boat full time, ie, no car needed? Will you have access to free water (up here in the states) or have to pay for it (in the Virgin Islands)? How much fuel will you be using? Etc, etc, etc.

Best of luck in your search!

Sophi


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

mathewsaunders said:


> Fair enough. Now see, when I say minimalist (as I've mentioned in previous posts) I mean that I do not need a big tv, or big couch, or lots of living space, I can live quite happily with the absolute bare essentials. I do not need extras, just what I need to live. That being said, I do realize it was a vague question, but in no way do I see it as a question so vague that someone would answer with such simple questions.
> When living on land, a typical monthly income would be distributed as such;
> 35% will go to rent, 10% savings, 25% other living expenses, 15% debt, and 15% transportation. Now, I do not need specifics, just a general outline of where my fund will be going.


I think the link that Nightowl posted is about the best answer you can expect. The drawback to the question at hand is there are still too many variables to determine costs. The boat is a huge portion of the budget, and repairs and maintenance are absolutely unavoidable. However, that figure, either in dollars or percentages, is all relative to where you begin; i.e. what's the boat? If you buy a "fixer-upper" it's percentage will be much higher than a year old boat, for example. Are you thinking you'll need something along the lines of a watermaker (which seems to be a necessity for those circumnavigating)? If so, that's another, very large expense. You know how much money you spend now for the basics, those figures will pretty much remain constant, i.e. food/entertainment/healthcare/utilities/etc. We're right back to the biggest variable - the boat. And folks ask, "How big of a boat do I need to sail around the world?", which seems like a simple question, but it's absolutely not. There's folks here that would answer that with, "Give me 25' boat and get out of my way", while there's others that would say, "Nothing below 42' or you're risking your life and that's irresponsible". Who's right? Both of them.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Just thought I stick my oar in and stir it a bit.*

I (and many others here I suspect) have also dreamed of sailing off into the sunset but have allowed other, more mundane things to get in the way. But most of us have at least some idea of what it would take.

Matthew, you said that you "know next to nothing about boating" so, before you decide to set off around the world, may I respectfully suggest that you get some experience. Wander down to your local marina / club / sailing school and start talking to people. Find someone who needs crew or help working on their boat. Look on the message board at the chandlers, marina, etc. Go and talk to people working on their boats. Take a class. If you want this to be more than a dream you need to become competent at sailing (in the broadest sense) and maintaining a boat - help can be a long way away. As you learn more and more, you may decide that this isn't for you&#8230; or the desire may burn brighter and your resolve stiffen. But you need to find out.

Then get a boat, start sailing it locally so you are comfortable with it. Start living on it while you prepare and then go embarrass all us wannabes by actually doing it.

In 2008 I read an article in a British magazine that stuck in my mind because it was something I aspired to. It was written by a couple that was in their third year in the Med, living aboard on a Westerly Oceanlord (good solid 41ft cruising boat from the 90s). They did all their own maintenance, hadn't encountered the wear and tear of any really long ocean passages, anchored as much as possible but ate and drank quite well (my interpretation of their words). Expenses were about 15,000 pounds a year (say $25,000) but that that could easily double if they had to paid for maintenance, or long marina stays, etc.

Hope that helps a little..

Good Luck.


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## bjslife (Oct 28, 2009)

Ill put my cost in so you can get more of an average. I in just moved onto my 1973 Morgan O/I 33" in July with slip fee's of $981.00 a year (cost more if paid monthy $198.00) and so far $38.00 for electric every 2 months. Thats with running a heater at night,tv(local chanels only no cable or satalite),lights, ice box that i converted to 110v or 12v with the cheap ice chest that plugs in, and a small garden with florescent lights on a timer (chives,lettuce,basil,spinach,cilantro,dwarf orange, and blueberry trees). Free pump out station, free water, P.O. box for $40 for 6 months. Im lucky here because they dont charge extra for liveaboards. Thats $1289 a year. I have a car so the usual insurance cost to add in but free parking at marina. Thats it! Besides food,booze,laundry, and showers. No medical ins. or boat ins. but will get it for the boat before leaving. The plan is to sail south come spring!
Fair winds and have fun.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

mathewsaunders said:


> Could you explain? That's very vague. What I'm looking for is a more detailed answer. What you said really tells me nothing. If someone pays 1800 a month for rent in a house, where is that going to be spent living on a boat? If someone makes over 600 a month in car payments, where will that be spent on a boat? Say I have no car, or those kind of monthly payments, how would I be spending the same amount?


I did not scroll back to respond to your reply earlier, but I did give more details of my own expenses in post #18. I still claim truth in my "vague" answer that living aboard will likely cost the same as living on land and the figure is elusive because of what different people see as the requirements for living. On land and sea their are huge differences between the essential costs of living. I know people that "squeak by on a budget" with three times the costs for us to maintain and operate as full time liveaboard cruisers and others that could not afford our "lavish" expenses and they liveaboard successfully. I have a nephew that lives alone on his 22' Catalina and a friend that lives alone on his 53' Hatteras- I don't envy either and could not enjoy the way that they live aboard. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## sep2x (Oct 26, 2011)

CaptainForce said:


> I have a nephew that lives alone on his 22' Catalina and a friend that lives alone on his 53' Hatteras- I don't envy either and could not enjoy the way that they live aboard. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


That's such a good point! There are so many styles of living aboard that it's really up to you to figure out what your particular lifestyle will cost.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

I do it for the sum of everything I have. and that is often not very much. A bit more expensive than life ashore, but much more interesting.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

CaptainForce said:


> I have a nephew that lives alone on his 22' Catalina and a friend that lives alone on his 53' Hatteras- I don't envy either and could not enjoy the way that they live aboard.


Catalina 22 for one person, ridiculous luxury!
I know a guy who lived aboard a Pearson Commander 26 with his girlfriend. That's the one with the small cabin and large cockpit.

Boat cost $600.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I think one of the best sources of information for what it will cost is Beth Leonard's Voyager's Handbook. She did very detailed research and compiled a lot of data during her around the world cruise. Nice lady, had an interesting chat with her at the Annapolis Boat show right before she set off on another cruise on board their brand new 47 foot aluminum boat.

Gary H. Lucas


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## dmcMaine (Sep 1, 2010)

davidpm said:


> I know a guy who lived aboard a Pearson Commander 26 with his girlfriend. That's the one with the small cabin and large cockpit.



So many ways to derail that statement ... so little time.


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## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

The information here is great and can be put to good usage, I can attest to the smaller 26FT syndrome, bought boat at great price, refit her and realized that after a year I spent just over 10k, almost 3 times the purchase price, But have everything I felt I needed for crusing my area.
I am a true DIY, and rebuilt the interior, new (used ) sails, new standing rigging, new running rigging, added ground tackle (Quickset) along with custom sprit/bow rollers. All new electronics, GPS, DSC/VHF, handheldx2 Compass (through bulkhead dual view) added bigger water tank, along with jabsco pump, added wash down/cockpit shower bought laptop and gps antenna for it, mounted in nav station i built in, added tiller autohelm, Cost me 1700 approx for marina and haul in and out (seasonal sailing) then put in solar panels, 3 new batterys for house system, switched over all lighting to LED, new PFD, and they were expensive 1200 for 4, jacklines added at season end.
It really depends on what makes you comfy and what you expect to do and possibly get caught in.
fwiw


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

re: the 20% rule.... I'd really like to see an estimate life of major expense items, like: sails last 5 years, and run 3k each. 

or, keel bolts need replacement every 20 yrs and cost 3K, or engine's get 3000 hours before due for rebuilds. and a rebuild yanmar 30hp runs 20k (or whatever $)... (standing rigging, running rigging, dingy engine, etc)

Then you can take the 'mean time before failure' to your own boat, and say, well, I have 4 year old sails, so I guess I'm due in the next year or so... (or my standing rigging is 10 years old, so its about due)


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

ftldiver said:


> re: the 20% rule.... I'd really like to see an estimate life of major expense items, like: sails last 5 years, and run 3k each.
> 
> or, keel bolts need replacement every 20 yrs and cost 3K, or engine's get 3000 hours before due for rebuilds. and a rebuild yanmar 30hp runs 20k (or whatever $)... (standing rigging, running rigging, dingy engine, etc)
> 
> Then you can take the 'mean time before failure' to your own boat, and say, well, I have 4 year old sails, so I guess I'm due in the next year or so... (or my standing rigging is 10 years old, so its about due)


The problem is you'd need some kind of reliable benchmark and everyone sails and maintains his or her boat differently.

If one person only manages to use his boat a few times a year, his sails may remain near-new after ten years. If another person is diligent about taking care of the engine, it may last twice as long as the person's in the next slip. Then there are the differences between boats that have been used hard in charter and those that have not. Is the boat kept in salt water or fresh? Different parts of the world will also have different prices on everything from parts to labor.

I think there are too many things to consider that will change the dollar figures from one boat to the next.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

^ There is still an average 'Mean time before failure' for most items. The only question is what is the correct usage estimate. 

instead of using years for a life of a sail, how about Hours? (or miles under keel).

and sure some get 5000 hours out of an engine, and some only get 1000, but isn't there an average life we could agree upon? (like a car can go 125,000 mile before its due to be replaced)


and when you are purchasing a used boat, these estimates would come in handy determining the value of the boat...


-One thing I've been reading is a full time Trawler's cruiser costs are not that much different (more), when you consider the costs of running + standing rigging, and cost of sails vs the Diesel.


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

I think the only problem with the "mean time" idea is that a lot of boats come under more stress from "under use" than the opposite. Things like dry rot have to factor in, and even a boat that's only got 50 hours of actual usage but is still 25 years old, will see different wear. Not every question has a simple answer, I'm afraid.


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## galaboat (Nov 21, 2011)

On a circumnavigation your costs for maintaining your boat A1 will be approx. 10% of the value of the boat per year. This is including insurance (3rd party) and of course assuming your boat is in A1 order. I finished a 10 year circumnavigation with my Tayana 37 in 2003 and that one held up for the period! It even included 1 yearly return-trip to Europe by air! As for the rest, if you are in the port of St. Tropez, bring lots of money and if you are at anchor in the lagoon at Penrhyn Island in the Northern Cooks, go fishing! Have fun Bro!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

galaboat said:


> On a circumnavigation your costs for maintaining your boat A1 will be approx. 10% of the value of the boat per year.


If I have a boat that cost me $500K, I'll pay $50K per year to maintain it. What if the boat was free? By this logic I should be able to maintain it at no cost.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

galaboat said:


> On a circumnavigation your costs for maintaining your boat A1 will be approx. 10% of the value of the boat per year. This is including insurance (3rd party) and of course assuming your boat is in A1 order.


Who is doing the work here? Yards or DIY.

My boat is in A1 condition and I did not spend that much last year on maintenance. But I did do all the work myself.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Another way to do an estimate is to make a list of all the systems on the boat.
Yes it will be a big list.
Now pick a number maybe 1 year or 5 or 10 years.
Then put down a refit number for each system and what date you plan on doing that refit.
Add up all your normal normal maintenance costs multiply it times the number of years you picked above and add all the refits that fall within the number of years and divide to get your average.

The point that most new sailors miss is that a boat is like a bank account.
You buy the boat and it now has some value.
If you sail it for a year it now has less value.
If you invest in it each year and do something that needs doing. New sail, new bulbs, replace head, new water tank etc. then at the end of some years the boat may be worth the same or more than you bought it for.
It is totally possible to buy a boat in pretty good shape and sail it hard for a time and not put any money into it. 
But eventually the piper will have to be paid. Ocean trips also put a lot more strain on the boat than sitting at a dock in the states and costs can be either a lot higher or lower to fix what breaks.

In his book "Occupation Circumnavigator" Lars Hassler bought a brand new Beneteau 50 for almost 400,000 in 1988 and spent an average of 1,500 per month in maintenance.
Yes this was a surprise to Lars that it would cost that much for a new boat but it was over 10 years and he had his share of disasters which one would expect over 10 years and it is a 50' boat. He claimed that when the 10 years were over the boat was still in great shape even though it was run hard for thousands of miles that whole time.

Very good book by the way.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

an agreement of how often to replace parts would be very helpful... and deserves its own thread.



A lot of things aren't initially considered in the planning for a new owner...

like seacocks. 


FWIW,
An aircraft mechanic once told me, 
'There are no Old Helicopters. We replace each and every part on them down to the rivets on the air frame, on a very specific maintenance schedule.'


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## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

dmcMaine said:


> So many ways to derail that statement ... so little time.


And I thought it was just me. I'm thinking a guy with his girl friend probably doesn't need much room....lol


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## galaboat (Nov 21, 2011)

treilley said:


> Who is doing the work here? Yards or DIY.
> 
> My boat is in A1 condition and I did not spend that much last year on maintenance. But I did do all the work myself.


Over 10 years and 63000NM as mentioned and including marina stays! Did quite a bit of the work myself but f.ex. not new autopilot & osmosis peeloff in NZ, new fueltank in OZ and of course new jib in OZ, new main in SA. 
Boat is a 37ft cutter-ketch and over the 10 year period that is what it cost me! She is from 1982


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## ArcherBowman (Jul 1, 2009)

A YOUNG guy maybe. THese days, I get "honey I love you, but it's hot. Sleep over THERE."



neverknow said:


> And I thought it was just me. I'm thinking a guy with his girl friend probably doesn't need much room....lol


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## ArcherBowman (Jul 1, 2009)

You're right - I thought I made it clear that that's just a starting point.

He was asking for a starting point, and "it depends" isn't useful.

For example, freshwater sailors don't have to haul out as often as salt water sailors. In fact, here in the South, Lake Lanier sailors don't have to haul out as often as Tennessee River sailors. Ew accumulates at vastly different rates.

I rent a slip in East Tennessee for $45/mo, plus yacht club membership fees. Down town it becomes $185. In San Francisco it's even higher.



Chris12345 said:


> A general rule of 20% of the purchase cost for maintenance sounds plain wrong to me:
> 
> If a boat is new(ish) or well maintained, 20% would be outrageously high, a reason to return the thing to the dealer immediately. If that figure was true, the economically sane thing to do would be to not do ANY maintenance on a new boat, toss it after 5 years, and get a new one. That's not what people do.
> 
> ...


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