# Back to looking for my first sailboat



## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Last spring I spent some time here on this website and many of your responses helped my looking at my first sail boat. Well things changed and I gave up, but!

Now I've been offered a lucrative job that I could do for a year and then pull the plug and go back to my retirement.

So here I am again with some questions. I sailed quite a bit in San Diego back in the early 70's, 26 foot sailboat with my buddy, his boat.

When I retired 5 years ago I bought an 11 ft Joel White shellback sailboat I could lift onto my truck and played with it for 4 years. Now the interest is back. With this job offer I could get serious about something in the 35-45ft range and $50-60K+ range

One: I'm in the Pacific Northwest so I'll be looking for a boat in the Portland and Seattle area. My big question is: Can a 77 year old (I'm still in pretty good shape), sail that size boat by himself?? I've seen boats with the roller reef Genoa/Jib deal that looks easy to handle. Then some boats with all the reefing available in the cockpit. So I think unless I'm missing something, with some kind of autopilot or tiller lock, (which I had on my little Shellback), I could power out and then rig the sails on my own.

Portland has a great Sailing Club that I have sat down and talked to. I would take their sailing lessons and if I bought a boat locally would enlist their help for some lessons.

All of this would occur next spring but I'm getting that itch and this job offer has really got me thinking??


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

Depends, I mean if it has an auto jib and an autopilot and all that, probably. If it's all manual that might be a tall order. I can solo my 15ft WWP pretty easily but the pre and post flight are just SO much easier when I have extra hands on deck.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

A big difference between 35 and 45 ft! But at the lower end, I have no trouble single handing our 34 ft Bene with furling main and jib, and of course, autopilot. OK, I'm only 67, but still. For me, the autopilot is essential, as are the controls leading back to the cockpit.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

arf145 said:


> A big difference between 35 and 45 ft! But at the lower end, I have no trouble single handing our 34 ft Bene with furling main and jib, and of course, autopilot. OK, I'm only 67, but still. For me, the autopilot is essential, as are the controls leading back to the cockpit.


Yeah this is a good point, 10 extra feet in legth is basically doubling the hull size, for better (speed and comfort) and for worse (cost/maintenance). Although I guess you seem more concerned about just the handling of it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm 66 and I just bought a Bristol 35.5 from a 76 year old. He was still sailing it, and only sold it because his wife has Alzheimer's and he needs to be home more. It's set up for single handed sailing.


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

I think the price range is going to keep you closer to 30 feet than 40 feet unless you buy a fixer-upper. If I was 77, I would buy a smaller boat 30 to 34 feet in better condition and spend my time sailing instead of working on her. Also for me at 60, it's not the sail handling once I'm out, it's the dock handling that would be an issue with a big boat and a little wind by myself for me. We have a Cape Dory 30 and I know we/I use it more than I would a 45 footer. As someone mentioned cost of ownership is exponential to boat size. Take running rigging, I use 3/8 and 7/16 line, around a dollar per foot. 5/8 and 3/4 is $2 per foot, blocks and such would probably double or more. Just my opinion, others may vary.

Now I do like to tinker also, so if you like to sit at the dock and get her ready to go in a year or two that's different.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

If all your lines are run back to the cockpit, with an auto pilot, I am thinking you should be able to handle things. You need to work it out. Work the problems as they come and get your playbook worked out. Het some lazy jacks and a stack pack for the main sail too. Then its pretty much just dropping the sail and done. You will of course have to go forward on some occasions, at the least convenient time of course. Even with an auto pilot, going forward in 20 kts is not going to be easy or fun by yourself. But, like I said above, work things out in lighter breeze. Make looking at the deck layout and what is run back and what you will need to run back and what that would take as part of your search when you look at boats. 

Good luck, welcome back, and I hope you find a boat that works well for you.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I would approach your question about age and boat size a little differently. The ease with which a boat can be handled is driven by a few factors. For each of us the answer will be different. Here is what I consider to be the main factors in order of importance:
-Your Physical Condition:
Obviously the most personal is your own physical condition. (Speaking for myself at 70, I need to continue to work at staying in shape enough to safely handle my 38 footer single-hand.) You need to be honest with yourself in terms of evaluating your physical strength, balance, mental acuity and so on. (I am not implying that you have not been)
-Displacement:
In terms of choosing the right boat the single most significant driving force is the displacement of the boat. The bigger the displacement, the bigger the sails, and the physically harder that it will be to sail the boat. I sail on a lot of boats and I found that somewhere around 15,000 lbs displacement the loads on the control lines were enough to make single-handing without motorized winches too difficult to be fun for me. I chose to buy a boat with a displacement under 12,000 lbs and have never regretted it. But my own person preferences are not to use motorized devices for sail handling. I consider the physicality of hoisting and grinding in sails, or manually pulling up an anchor without a windlass as a perk not a burden. But that is solely a personal call. I am not trying to suggest my choice is the right answer for everyone, or for that matter, anyone but me.
-Sail Area, drag, and stability:
Sail Area, drag, and stability are completely linked. The more drag that a boat has, the more sail area that it needs to sail. The more sail area that a boat has, the harder it is to sail, and the greater stability that is needed. The more stability relative to its drag thagt the boat has, the easier it is to adapt to changing weather conditions and the more efficient the sail plan of the boat will be. And here comes the counter intuitive point: generally the greater the SA/D that a boat has, the easier it is to handle. This is true because as the SA/D goes up, the boat is able to use smaller overlap headsail and more efficiently shaped sails. Smaller overlap sails are easier to depower, tack, and can be furled down to a smaller size more effectively, The more efficient sails a boat can use, the less sail area will be needed for any condition making short-handed sailing physically easier.
-Rig:
Some rigs are easier to sail short handed than others. By far the easiest rig to sail short-handed is a fractionally rigged sloop since they are easier to depower and generally are easier to tack and jibe, Beyond that the much smaller and more efficient headsails are easier to trim.
-Waterline length:
Once you have chosen the ideal displacement range to meet your needs and capability, within reason, the longer the waterline length the easier the boat will be to handle. There is a practical limit to this in either direction. Once the D/L is out of a 140 to 175 range, the boat will get harder to handle short-hand.
-Deck plan:
Here thinking is divergent, but I like to have the benefit of all of the sail shaping tools and have them led back to the cockpit. There are valid arguments for other options.

So, to answer your your question, "Can a 77 year old sail that size boat by himself?? " My answer would be, it depends.

But for myself, I personally plan to ideally find out 7 years from now. For now I will continue to sail hard. This is me a few weeks before my 70th birthday winning the spinnaker class in the Poplar Island Race in 10-12 knot winds gusting to over 20 knots.
Poplar Island Race- Synergy at Finish Line 2020-06-27

Good luck with whatever you choose to do,
Jeff


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I've told this story here before. One of my neighbors, now deceased, sailed his 42 ft catch into his early 90's. He would single hand it even then. I would offer to help him in the spring and fall with delivery to his dock. The storage yard was about 30 miles away. He would decline, as it was important to him to do it himself. I aspire to be him when I grow up (I'm only in my 60's).

His boat was rigged for what he called geriatric sailing. In mast furling, and roller furling jib. He was accomplished, having sailed everywhere and anywhere. Knowledge is important in this regard.

I was lucky enough at one point in my life to sail with Ted Hood. Ted said, you sail with your mind not your strength. 

You can acquire the knowledge to do this. Physically, you need good balance and reasonable agility, but that's all. 

Listen, learn, and do it. Best of luck.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your response. Very good information for an old fart like me. Good point about a newer 30-35ft boat that doesn't require any/minimal maintenance. Since I'd probably be sailing mostly in the Columbia river, the boats draft might be an issue. 

Question: The 27ft boat my buddy had in San Diego that we sailed, had a Fin keel, ( is that right). We could easily sail out of the marina, no motor. One day we were going to race a friend, for dinner, who had a 29ft boat. Silly me I volunteered to help on the 29ft boat, thinking it would be faster. Well it had a full keel and turned so slow we were 1/4 mile behind once we got out of the marina, ha ha.

So, sailing in the river which would be a better, possibly draw less the fin or full length keel?


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

the only reason to have a full keel boat especially in a river is because you love everything else about the boat and it happens to have full keel.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

olsenkent911 said:


> Thanks everyone for your response. Very good information for an old fart like me. Good point about a newer 30-35ft boat that doesn't require any/minimal maintenance. Since I'd probably be sailing mostly in the Columbia river, the boats draft might be an issue.
> 
> Question: The 27ft boat my buddy had in San Diego that we sailed, had a Fin keel, ( is that right). We could easily sail out of the marina, no motor. One day we were going to race a friend, for dinner, who had a 29ft boat. Silly me I volunteered to help on the 29ft boat, thinking it would be faster. Well it had a full keel and turned so slow we were 1/4 mile behind once we got out of the marina, ha ha.
> 
> So, sailing in the river which would be a better, possibly draw less the fin or full length keel?


Generally, full keels have more drag and so require more sail area making them harder to sail. Fin keels tend to have lighter helm loads and get by with less sail area,,

Jeff


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

There are so many different options, and it always comes down to that trade-off decision, of what type of sailing are you most likely to do, leisure cruising, gunkholing, or racing? Each of those activities are best served by different types of keels. Everything else is a compromise. There are also wing keels, shoal keels, and retractable centerboards. I spent the past six years reading reviews and debates (many debates on here), about all the different types of keels, before I bought my boat this summer. I settled on the Bristol 35.5 with it's abbreviated (cutaway) keel because I decided that it was the best compromise for the type of sailing I intend to do. 

Critics have told me, "That's a bad choice of a boat for the Chesapeake. It's too heavy and, the nearly full keel will make it too slow for the light air days that often occur on the Chesapeake. Plus, the 5'9" draft will seriously limit where you can go and you'll get stuck a lot". Then I joined the Chesapeake Bay Bristol Owners Club, and found out that the previous owner sailed with that club, with my boat, for 10 years. The other members of the club have told me that my boat often won friendly races against many of the other Bristols, particularly the Bristol 41.1s in the club. When they had weekend raft-ups, they tell me that they saved a spot on the end, for my boat, in the 7 foot water. The previous owner told me that he had my boat grounded a few times, and was usually able to get unstuck by waiting for the tide to come up, or heeling her over. When that failed, he used his BoatUS Tow Insurance. 

After doing some research on the history of my boat, I found out that this boat, that I've been told is too heavy, too deep and too slow, for use on the Chesapeake, has spent her entire 45 year life on the Chesapeake, since she was delivered from the factory in Bristol Rhode Island. She was raced for awhile, against other boats of her class. 

So, as you do your research on various boat types, and keel configurations, you will hear many conflicting opinions. I've spent the past several years wading through all those discussions.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Why do you need a 40 ft boat if it's just you? Are you planning on taking others out with you?

If I were going to single-hand and going out by myself, I'd want something like the Rhodes 19 or West Wright Potter 19. But I don't know if you have cruising plans or just daysailing plans.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

midwesterner said:


> There are so many different options, and it always comes down to that trade-off decision, of what type of sailing are you most likely to do, leisure cruising, gunkholing, or racing? Each of those activities are best served by different types of keels. Everything else is a compromise. There are also wing keels, shoal keels, and retractable centerboards. I spent the past six years reading reviews and debates (many debates on here), about all the different types of keels, before I bought my boat this summer. I settled on the Bristol 35.5 with it's abbreviated (cutaway) keel because I decided that it was the best compromise for the type of sailing I intend to do.
> 
> Critics have told me, "That's a bad choice of a boat for the Chesapeake. It's too heavy and, the nearly full keel will make it too slow for the light air days that often occur on the Chesapeake. Plus, the 5'9" draft will seriously limit where you can go and you'll get stuck a lot". Then I joined the Chesapeake Bay Bristol Owners Club, and found out that the previous owner sailed with that club, with my boat, for 10 years. The other members of the club have told me that my boat often won friendly races against many of the other Bristols, particularly the Bristol 41.1s in the club. When they had weekend raft-ups, they tell me that they saved a spot on the end, for my boat, in the 7 foot water. The previous owner told me that he had my boat grounded a few times, and was usually able to get unstuck by waiting for the tide to come up, or heeling her over. When that failed, he used his BoatUS Tow Insurance.
> 
> ...


I personally would not think that the 35.5 would be a bad boat for the Bay. Despite being a pretty heavy 35 footer for a coastal cruiser, the fin keel version of the 35.5 is a pretty low drag boat. Dieter and Ted tended to do cylindrical hull sections that help reduce wetted surface enormously. The fin keel versions were somewhere around 500 to 800 lbs lighter than the centerboard versions and had a lot more stability and so were able to carry more sail area. Most of the keel versions of the 35.5's that came to the Bay (or Long Island Sound) had the taller rig as well which helped a lot in light air. As far as the draft I have been cruising the Bay for 20 years with 6'-4" draft and it hasn't been that restrictive. By the way, I would not call that an "abbreviated (cutaway) keel". By any definition that I know the 53.5 has a pretty conventional fin keel with skeg hung rudder.

Jeff


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

olsenkent911 said:


> Thanks everyone for your response. Very good information for an old fart like me. Good point about a newer 30-35ft boat that doesn't require any/minimal maintenance. Since I'd probably be sailing mostly in the Columbia river, the boats draft might be an issue.
> 
> Question: The 27ft boat my buddy had in San Diego that we sailed, had a Fin keel, ( is that right). We could easily sail out of the marina, no motor. One day we were going to race a friend, for dinner, who had a 29ft boat. Silly me I volunteered to help on the 29ft boat, thinking it would be faster. Well it had a full keel and turned so slow we were 1/4 mile behind once we got out of the marina, ha ha.
> 
> So, sailing in the river which would be a better, possibly draw less the fin or full length keel?


 We had two fin keel boats, a Pearson 26 and a Pearson 30, they were very quick to tack. When we got the Cape Dory we thought we were doing something wrong, much slower to tack but the ride is so much better in the chop in the lower bay. Dennis


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Jeff_H said:


> I personally would not think that the 35.5 would be a bad boat for the Bay. .... the fin keel version of the 35.5 is a pretty low drag boat.
> 
> ...... By the way, I would not call that an "abbreviated (cutaway) keel". By any definition that I know the 53.5 has a pretty conventional fin keel with skeg hung rudder.
> Jeff


See OlsenKent. This is what's great about these keel debates, and any debate on sailboats. 
All of my research and, now my first experiences with my new boat, tells me that what Jeff_H said above is the truth about my boat. (The keel of my Bristol 35.5 is a little wider than a Catalina 34)

But back in August, just two weeks before I finalized the sale, some other experienced sailor told me in very certain terms, the exact opposite.

When I referred to the Bristol 35.5 as a partial keel boat, he said, very firmly, "No! the Bristol 35.5 is not a partial keel boat. You may be led to believe that because it's cut off for just a very brief section between the keel and the skeg, but it is essentially a full keel boat, and you should expect it to handle like one. If you expect it to handle like the fin keel boats you have sailed, you will be very disappointed. It really isn't a good boat for the Chesapeake".

My more than six years of research, and my first experience with actually sailing my new boat, have proven his viewpoint to be in error.

This is an example of the diverse and often conflicting viewpoints you will get from people, when you research these things.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

olsenkent911 said:


> So, sailing in the river which would be a better, possibly draw less the fin or full length keel?


Lighter, faster, smaller more maneuverable are all attributes I would look for in a boat for river sailing. The problem is with short tacking against a current, a heavier boat that is slower to turn and slower to accelerate out of tacks will get pushed down by wind and current, potentially making it impossible to make ground. Based on this, fin keel would probably work better. Faster to turn, faster to accelerate (all other things being equal).

Another thing to consider with river sailing is short tacking can be a lot of physical work. I sail on the St Lawrence River and can be looking at a quite a few tacks over a mile or two getting up river, so I wouldn't want to go with a boat with a big head sail. Fractional sloop or cat boat. I sail a quick cat boat. No jib to worry about, fast into and out of the turns, although won't point quite as high as a sloop, still it's worth it to me to not be tacking a jib single handed a couple dozen times in a short time frame. Just push the tiller over and the boat takes care of itself.

Here is my spot track from a typical sail up river to get groceries while out cruising. Was reefed and going against the current. A lot of tacks in short order. Shoals to the south kept me from using the whole river


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Great points about tacking into the current. The fellow I talked to at the sailing school said the Columbia current was a function of how much water was being released from the dams up river. Then again if it's a nice day with little wind you'd need the motor, which is why I'd like a sailboat, questions, questions.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Oh, I was thinking of the bigger boat since I have a 34 ft motor home and I though I could sail out somewhere, anchor down and relax like I do in the motor home.

Another question was. In my RV, I pull my pickup, I'll stop someplace for a week and jump in my truck and go play some golf. Well that doesn't look like that will work from a sailboat at anchor.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Oh, I was thinking of the bigger boat since I have a 34 ft motor home and I though I could sail out somewhere, anchor down and relax like I do in the motor home.
> 
> Another question was. In my RV, I pull my pickup, I'll stop someplace for a week and jump in my truck and go play some golf. Well that doesn't look like that will work from a sailboat at anchor.


I know someone who lives on a 30 foot boat. I think anything from a 32-36 footer would be a fine weekend cruiser for one person or even smaller. I know a couple that cruise long chunks of the summer on a Dana 24. I think anything with a reliable diesel, and standing headroom is all you need for cruising a few days at a time. A boat in the mid 30s would give you enough space to carry what you need to cruise longer and maybe have a guest to help you sail. The smaller the boat the easier it will be to both afford and sail.

I would sign up for ASA 101 and 103. In the 103 class you will be introduced to boats in the 30 foot range and it will help you determine if you can develop the skills to single hand a boat that size. Instead of a pickup in a sailboat you carry and sometimes tow a dinghy, a small inflatable 8-10 foot boat with outboard that acts as a pickup. It can get you to and from shore where you can eat or hike or buy supplies.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

olsenkent911 said:


> Oh, I was thinking of the bigger boat since I have a 34 ft motor home and I though I could sail out somewhere, anchor down and relax like I do in the motor home.
> 
> Another question was. In my RV, I pull my pickup, I'll stop someplace for a week and jump in my truck and go play some golf. Well that doesn't look like that will work from a sailboat at anchor.


Actually Sailors do the sailing equivalent of you RV experience. Many tow a rigid inflatable dinghy behind their boat, or hang it from davits from the stern. They stop somewhere to anchor, or at a Municipally maintained mooring ball, and motor ashore in their dinghy to go dining or sightseeing.

You could probably find places where you can go ashore in your dinghy, call an Uber, and go golfing.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Now there's a thought, UBER. I was thinking of a bike but carrying my clubs would be a pain, but UBER, hmmm. This may work yet.
I guess the reason I was looking for a larger boat is I don't feel right unless I can take a shower everyday. So I thought I'd need to find something over 30 feet. Maybe not?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

i"m 74 and regularly single-hand my Cal 33. Age is one thing, but good health, strength and balance also are key issues. With a furling jib and autopilot, sailing is really not the issue. It's getting back on the mooring in a blow, anchoring, docking, etc. that can be the most issues for a single person.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I would say for the most part decent showers start at about 35 feet. It's a reasonable thing to want, if that's what you want. 

Golfing. My last marina was at a nice public golf course. Both were run by the municipality. So one could go down to their boat, golf in the morning and a sail in the afternoon. Might be able to find a set up like that.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> I guess the reason I was looking for a larger boat is I don't feel right unless I can take a shower everyday.


Once you become a sailor you'll get over that. 

You can actually have a shower in a tiny boat. When I was out on a friends 30 footer with a total of 4 of us onboard I would use a solar shower and take a shower on the bow in my bathing suit each day.

I shower both to be clean and to luxuriate in the hot water. Showering in a boat is not the same as at your home or even your RV. In a 35 foot boat you have a decent sized (head) bathroom, by decent sized head I mean you can almost stand up and turn around in it. Your head is likely the shower also. You will pull the sink attachment out and hang it on the wall. The boat will need to be plugged in or the motor running and so equipped to provide heat from shore power or the engine. The water pressure will leave something to be desired. When done your entire bathroom will be wet and so will your toilet paper if you did not hide it beforehand. Your boat will also have gotten a dose of moisture from the shower.

Almost all marinas have showers for visiting boaters. I use those facilities whenever I can, the shower is better, getting dressed afterwards is easier and the boat stays drier.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

olsenkent911 said:


> Now there's a thought, UBER. I was thinking of a bike but carrying my clubs would be a pain, but UBER, hmmm. This may work yet.
> I guess the reason I was looking for a larger boat is I don't feel right unless I can take a shower everyday. So I thought I'd need to find something over 30 feet. Maybe not?


I just bought a Bristol 35.5. It is just big enough to take a possible shower in. Mine has a small track mounted on the cabin ceiling with little gliders in hooks, where a shower curtain was mounted. I have not yet put one up, but it can create a tiny little stall that protects the cabinet tree, toilet paper, and wooden doors from the water splatter. It directs all the water down to the great in the floor, which has its own bilge pump.

Some marinas have some kind of shuttle van service, some have a number for an Enterprise rental place that will bring you a car. A town of any decent size, should have Uber or Lyft.


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

I see this has gone to a live-a-board so here is my two cents. Take every position you want or think you need and move into your bedroom and live there for 6 months because that is a lot more flat inside space and storage than you will have on a 32 foot boat. When my wife and I downsized to a smaller house. We did something similar for 6 months, emptied rooms, moved furniture in to small room size to see if we were ok and we are. 14 years now in a 950 sq ft house after living for 20 years in a 2400 ft. It still all about compromises. Dennis


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Crazy ideas, but. I looked up a golf course I've played on the Willamette river. And--- I could anchor on the river, throw my clubs in a dinghy, row to the edge, hide the dinghy and walk 1/4 mile to the course. ha ha


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

olsenkent911 said:


> Crazy ideas, but. I looked up a golf course I've played on the Willamette river. And--- I could anchor on the river, throw my clubs in a dinghy, row to the edge, hide the dinghy and walk 1/4 mile to the course. ha ha


Is there a nearby Marina? Ask the golf course if they provide shuttle service from the marina. Ask the marina if they have any kind of transportation service. I know that in Oriental North Carolina, the local Piggly Wiggly has a shuttle van. Because it's a large Sailing Community, the manager got permission to purchase a van. If you call them, they will drive to the marina, pick you up, take you to the grocery store, let you shop, and then deliver you back to your boat and help you unload your groceries.

I heard of one Marina that has an old station wagon they will loan to anybody who rents one of their slips, for a month or a night.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Crazy ideas, but. I looked up a golf course I've played on the Willamette river. And--- I could anchor on the river, throw my clubs in a dinghy, row to the edge, hide the dinghy and walk 1/4 mile to the course. ha ha


If your goal is to golf as much as possible, RVing is likely a better option for you. The amount of effort it takes to travel by boat is not to be underestimated. Traveling 50 miles to the next marina is an all day event. Staying at a marina each night adds to the expense of sailing greatly. If you are not at a marina, getting to shore requires a ride in your dinghy which sometimes takes some effort just getting into the boat, now add golf clubs into the mix and then motor to where an Uber can get you to a course.

As a rule most people try to minimize the trips away from the boat or from the water, at least I do. Generally I only travel as far as i can walk from the shore when sailing. I will leave the boat only to go for a hike, groceries or a cooked meal. Once on a 2 week sailing trip i rented a scooter and once I had a sailnetter pick me up and take me to a grocery store.

Not saying it can't be done but adding a sailboat as a way to get to and from golf courses really complicates things. A sailboat is very expensive way to get somewhere for free.

I have gotten on a mailing list that has an RV plan that includes farms, wineries and now golf courses. You can literally park at the course and walk out of your RV onto the green in the morning. Driving to and from a course and parking in the lot would make the whole process that much easier.








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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Youall's experiences is much better and quicker than me sticking my foot in there.

So another idea today. I lived in San Diego many years ago and on the west coast it's a much better place to have a sailboat than Portland. So I thought what if I found a boat for sale that I liked and it included a slip?? Slip fees, which I heard were very expensive may not be. In Portland they are around $170-200. With a quick look from my phone, San Diego is comparable or maybe a little less?? 

I could sell my RV, buy a sailboat/slip in San Diego and winter down there instead of Arizona?? If I drove down from Oregon I would have a car and a boat and a place to live. Almost the same.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Slip fees, which I heard were very expensive may not be. In Portland they are around $170-200. With a quick look from my phone, San Diego is comparable or maybe a little less??
> 
> I could sell my RV, buy a sailboat/slip in San Diego and winter down there instead of Arizona?? If I drove down from Oregon I would have a car and a boat and a place to live. Almost the same.


This is a much better potential plan. The only problem is slip fees are not cheap, especially in San Diego. I had a 32 foot there and figured long term costs averaged about $12,000 a year, it is likely closer to $20k nowadays to own a sailboat in San Diego. Slip fees are expensive because the weather is as close to perfect as it gets and owning a boat is approachable where as owning a home there is not. I knew people who came from Ohio, Arizona and all over to spend a better season than home in San Diego, escape winters in Ohio and summers in Arizona.

One issue is there are a limited amount of liveaboard slips, make sure your boat has a liveaboard with a grandfather clause, otherwise, you have the potential of being kicked off your boat. I know plenty of people living "illegally" on their boat but it really depends on the marina you choose.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

jephotog said:


> This is a much better potential plan. The only problem is slip fees are not cheap, especially in San Diego. I had a 32 foot there and figured long term costs averaged about $12,000 a year, it is likely closer to $20k nowadays to own a sailboat in San Diego. Slip fees are expensive because the weather is as close to perfect as it gets and owning a boat is approachable where as owning a home there is not. I knew people who came from Ohio, Arizona and all over to spend a better season than home in San Diego, escape winters in Ohio and summers in Arizona.
> 
> One issue is there are a limited amount of liveaboard slips, make sure your boat has a liveaboard with a grandfather clause, otherwise, you have the potential of being kicked off your boat. I know plenty of people living "illegally" on their boat but it really depends on the marina you choose.


you need a more up to date phone. San Diego slip prices of $200 was back in 1972. If you can find a live aboard slip it will be about 18 to 20k a year. five years ago my 35' non live aboard slip in San Diege was 12k a year. most will not allow live aboard on less the 35' boat. my son lived as a sneak aboard on a friends boat, it took about a month before they found him out and then he could only live aboard 3 days a week. the car parking is very limited and most of it is now pay parking, no more free parking at the beach in San diego. I have heard of some marinas that have car parking for the live aboard but it is an extra $200 a month


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Your right 'overboard'. What I was looking at was moorage not slip fees. Slip fees are $700 +- plus electricity, if you could find a slip available. I have a friend down there that lives aboard a 42' sloop and he's tied up to some moorage. I sold him my 11' Joel White Shellback.

Well another idea shot down. I may just join the sailing club in Portland. They have quite a few boats from 20-29'.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Your right 'overboard'. What I was looking at was moorage not slip fees. Slip fees are $700 +- plus electricity, if you could find a slip available. I have a friend down there that lives aboard a 42' sloop and he's tied up to some moorage. I sold him my 11' Joel White Shellback.
> 
> Well another idea shot down. I may just join the sailing club in Portland. They have quite a few boats from 20-29'.


A sailing club would be a good way to get into sailing. In the meantime you could look for boats in the Socal area that is already a liveaboard. If the person has a liveaboard situation sometimes the liveaboard status comes with the boat if you buy it. You would likely pay a premium for a boat with liveaboard status. Besides San Diego you can consider Oceanside, Dana Point or Long Beach. While I prefer San Diego to Orange or LA County, the northern marinas puts you in a better position to getting to Catalina in a day or less.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Yeah the advantage of San Diego is you have the whole bay to sail in or go out in the ocean once in a while, Up the coast is different.

I'm now considering a 30-40ft boat in the Portland area. I could go up, I live about and hour + drive south, spend time on the boat, 3-6 days on the boat, probably up and down the river or in the marina with a couple golf courses not to far away. I checked and slip fees are more reasonable, $180-230 with electricity. Not the same as Cruising in the San Diego bay but then I wouldn't have to drive all the way down the state of Calif to get to the boat.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

olsenkent911 said:


> I guess the reason I was looking for a larger boat is I don't feel right unless I can take a shower everyday. So I thought I'd need to find something over 30 feet. Maybe not?


My wife's one request for our sailboat was a shower, and we still laugh about this. We have used it exactly once in seven years. As someone else said, you get over it.

I see plenty of young couples anchoring out in boats smaller than ours, with an inflatable dinghy to get to shore. I can't imagine needing more than my 28' if I was by myself unless I was living on the boat full time and needed a place to keep all my things. For up to a week, 30 ft should be plenty.


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Cape Dory Typhoon near the mouth of the Rappahannock River. Middle Chesapeake Bay


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Sorry, wrong place


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Not the same as Cruising in the San Diego bay but then I wouldn't have to drive all the way down the state of Calif to get to the boat.


Cruising in San Diego is not all that. Sure the weather is nice but there really is not a lot of places to go.

If I were in your situation I would prefer to have my boat in Puget Sound or up in Canada. Find a marina near a few golf courses. You will have a vacation home in a cool place, and if you get good at sailing you have one of the best cruising grounds right outside the marina in somewhat sheltered waters.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Ok another question from the experts.

I've always taken my cat with me in my Motor Home. Has anyone tried to take a cat with you in a sailboat. I thought I could take her with me and just stay at the slip for a day or two and see what happens?????


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

olsenkent911 said:


> Ok another question from the experts.
> 
> I've always taken my cat with me in my Motor Home. Has anyone tried to take a cat with you in a sailboat. I thought I could take her with me and just stay at the slip for a day or two and see what happens?????


We had a dog that as a pup went everywhere on the boat and loved it. We have two not that were introduced as 10 and are a nervous wreck to set foot on it. Cat may be different. Several on youtube cruise with cats. Gone with the Wynns, Sailing GBU have cats.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well things change. My job offer was flying a 50 year old DC-8 and I could just see spending a lot of time in the hotel waiting for parts as I don't think there are any or many still flying. 

So the sail boat is out of the picture. However, next spring I'm going to go to the Sailing club here in Portland, Or, do the lessons and maybe join their club, they have 8-10 boats.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

olsenkent911 said:


> Well things change. My job offer was flying a 50 year old DC-8 and I could just see spending a lot of time in the hotel waiting for parts as I don't think there are any or many still flying.
> 
> So the sail boat is out of the picture. However, next spring I'm going to go to the Sailing club here in Portland, Or, do the lessons and maybe join their club, they have 8-10 boats.


It sounds like you have come full circle, with the sailing club. Even if you could afford a boat joining a club is the best way to get started.

I was wondering how you were being pulled back into the workforce? Being typed in a rare plan helps. A decade ago I worked alongside some DC-8s, they seemed to keep in the air everyday. Was your potential job overseas?


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

I was in aviation for 45 years. Typed in the DC-8 and -9 and the 747 plus some corporate jets. This opportunity is someone trying to put together deal with an old DC-8 he's taking out of moth balls. Will start domestic. Needs a few crews and hope to get started after the new year.

I decided I'm not ready to go back to living out of a suitcase in a hotel and flying an airplane that's 50 years old where parts are a real question which means more hotel time.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well I have a deal with the flying job that I think will work, sooo, here I go. Now the recurrent DC-8 school is postponed till Feb 1st. Back to looking at boats again. Got some nice ones here in Portland in the 28-35ft range. Prices $19-28,000. I'm going to look at some this winter and plan to take the sailing school in the spring. I wonder if the prices would be better in the winter vs the spring?


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Found an interesting boat the other day. It is about 30 ft with a 3 ft keel and a retractable center board. So will go to about 7 ft or retract to about 3 ft. 

Read a story about a fellow who sailed up the Columbia from Astoria to Portland. They ran aground a couple times while nosing around in some of the small bays coming up the river. Each time he just retracted the center board until they broke free and then extended it after in deeper water. Doesn't sound like a bad idea and with the Columbia dragging all the dirt from upstream there are many places outside of the shipping channel that I can see where this might be a good deal on the Columbia.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well things change and life moves on. My chance to fly the old DC-8 again and use the money to pickup an 30ft sailboat have gone away. Flying a 60 year old airplane around with limited parts available means lots of hotel time. In my 45 years in aviation I did spend many days in a hotel waiting for parts, that didn't excite me. Then I found out that I would have to cancel my VA medical/disability while working full time. That pushed me over the edge, not going to cancel my VA medical and then try to reinstate it again.

So with still the sailboat itch I found another way to go. Years ago I had a 11ft Joel White Shellback that I, like a fool sold. Well I found a replacement. A place up in Gig Harbor, Wa that builds some nice small boats. I'm going up to look at the 10ft Navigator. Only 90lbs so will lift up and ride on the top of my pickup like the Shellback did. Full sails, main and Jib, dagger board and a cool rudder with a lower portion that will tip up if you hit something or the bottom. If I like what I see I'm ordering one and should be able to pick it up in the next month or so.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Nice looking boat and surprisingly cheaper for a Gig Harbor boat than expected. 

I would consider a launchable trailer and or the Kevlar upgrade. I used to pull a sunfish off and on the roof of my truck. It made sailing less fun and less frequent, even when I was younger and stronger. I injure to easily now to risk to want to lift 90 lbs over my head. Even if you don't injure yourself the potential to give the boat truck rash exists.


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## olsenkent911 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well building small boats must be pretty lucrative as Gig Harbor boats would take six months to deliver a boat after you order one, soooo. That means I couldn't even use it till next summer, ugh! 

So I found a Chesapeake 10ft Tenderly Dinghy with a lug sail. Picked it up yesterday. Fits on my truck like the old Shellback. Just needs a little TLC before it's nice enough to get out on the water. Besides my old cars I look forward to the quite as the boat glides along in a light wind.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

The local surfboard shop normally has 300-350 boards in stock, he has less than 50 now, still cranking out 60-70 a week, custom order is 10 weeks. Electric bicycle shop is also back ordered, big boon to solo outdoors sport equipment makers, lately.


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