# Wauquiez is going down, Dufour and Grand Soleil in trouble.



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Wauquiez is probably going to disappear unless someone would be interested in buying the company and invest a lot and that seems improbable.

Dufour and Grand Soleil are also in trouble, but it seems that Bavaria is going to buy both companies (that are linked).

This, as the buying of Dehler and Moody by Hanse (or Jeanneau by Beneteau) seems to indicate that medium sized companies just cannot compete in price with big companies nor they have the huge resources needed to modernize their factories and the building procedures to make comparable priced boats.

That's a bad notice in what regards Wauquiez, a brand with a great record in boating, but not so bad in what regards Dufour and Grand Soleil.

Perhaps, under the supervision of Bavaria we are going to have, in the near future, Dufour and mainly Grand Soliel boats at a more affordable price, with the same quality. Both are top performers in what regards quality and design in their class, but also the more expensive...it seems, too expensive.

And what about Tartan? Nobody heard nothing about Hunter buying it? It would make sense.

Regards

Paulo


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

So thats two large German producers now.
Hanse & Bavaria. Interesting...


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Wauquiez used to be a part of Group Beneteau until IIRC 3-5 yrs ago, then it was sold off. Either it did not meet the needs of GB, or it was failing back then, and GB did not want to invest. OR< it is just showing what and how hard the global recession/depression is hitting companies that are in the recreation biz. 

Not sure Tartan would be bought be either Hunter or Catalina locally. Europe has a way of helping larger companies buy smaller ones that employ a lot of folks, that does not happen here in the states, The attitude seems to be, let them fall. Still a common feeling among folk in regards to GM or Dodge, ie let the close! the problem is, in these two companies favor or lack of, millions of job loss's. Better to give them loans, government is making money and is being paid back, jobs kept, everyone wins. The latter is not an attitude to do in the US.

Marty


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I guess we can only hope that the customer comes out the winner in a more efficient consolidation of builders and offerings.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

blt2ski said:


> Wauquiez used to be a part of Group Beneteau until IIRC 3-5 yrs ago, then it was sold off. Either it did not meet the needs of GB, *or it was failing back then, and GB did not want to invest*. OR< it is just showing what and how hard the global recession/depression is hitting companies that are in the recreation biz.
> 
> ...
> Marty


Wauquiez was to Benetau the top quality product in the game. Wauquiez started to get trouble to sell the Centurion range and stayed only with the top DS range, but that one had also trouble selling and the Jeanneau take that market away from them. The only boat that is interesting in the wauquiez range is the Opium, but it came too late and was in conflit with the First range, so they let it go.

Marty, it makes sense for a bigger boat company to buy another if that one has a quality range that the first one doesn't have. That way they get another slice of the market. That's why I have said it would make sense for Hunter to buy Tartan, providing the price is right. That way Hunter would have a prestigious top quality line and also a line of faster boats that are pointing to a completely different market.

If Hunter would want to have a go at that market, even if it could produce a great and luxurious fast boat, that boat would not sell: the buyers of that segment would not buy a Hunter...just because it is a Hunter = big production inexpensive boat, no matter what .

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Faster said:


> I guess we can only hope that the customer comes out the winner in a more efficient consolidation of builders and offerings.


That had already happened in European car industry. They are all interconnected forming big groups. The chassis and engines of different brands are the same (equal to all the cars of the same group and same segment).

Only this way they can compete in price.

Regards

Paulo


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Paulo,

SOme of what you are saying makes a lot of sense, No different than the local Jeanneau dealer took on Hunter, when the Bene dealer let that franchise go. A lower cost boat along with the Tartan/C&C line they have too. Hunter I am sure has the assets to buy Tartan. The issue I see is Jacket, ie he seems to be getting himself to go with the company when it has been purchased. THAT part alone may be what keeps some folks from investing/buying the brand ie C&C and Tartan. WHere as, A company like Hunter, should have staff on hand to design boats to the Tartan legacy, but would be better off outsourcing the design to keep up the legacy if you will.

No different to a degree than GM buying the different brands that they did, or GB in France for that matter. Not sure that Tartan has a recent name legacy to want to purchase. That is the issue I see frankly. Wauquiez would be the better brand or Dufour or GS IMHO. As those have better names and recognition at "this" moment in time.

marty


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

nemier said:


> So thats two large German producers now.
> Hanse & Bavaria. Interesting...


You are getting it right . France is the biggest world boat manufacturer, with 923 506, but Germany is the nº1 in exporting boats, with 750 000 boats.

France boat builders (5000) make 23 500 boats each year. Look at the number of boat builders. They are really enthusiastic about boats. Different boats for all tastes and for all sailors

Germany is a different story. All their boats are made "only" by 412 boatbuilders.

Regards

Paulo


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Here is some info on Tartans & C&C new owners
http://www.tartanyachts.com/images/...Steve_and_Stephanie_message_updated_92010.pdf


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I hope they succeed, but they seem amateurs to me. 

Boat building is a hard business and it is necessary to look at it from a business perspective. I remember that some months back Bavaria went to BMW to get their production manager. The guy don't know nothing about boats, but knows a lot about production, cost reduction, robotic and effectiveness of work hours.

There are a lot of other guys that know about boats in Bavaria. They need this one for maximizing scale production and to apply to the boat industry modern robotics and other advanced production methods that are used on the car industry.

I believe that Tartan will need a huge investment in capital to fully modernize its production line, a huge investment to pay and to recover all those boats that had and have problems (to recover public confidence) and a completely new approach to boat production.

Only a big boat company like Hunter as the muscle and the knowledge to make it happen, and to transform a sinking boat company in a commercial success....after a huge injection of money 

Regards

Paulo


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

and some info about their new facilites...

Tartan Yachts Article - New Facility, New Day At Tartan and C&C Yachts


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

For a more complete and relatively unbiased picture on the "new" Tartan/C&C, take a look at the article in the December 2010 issue of BoatUS magazine. Very interesting reading. No punches pulled about the recent QC issues. One thing I found surprising is that the company is only building about 20 to 30 boats per year and workforce is only 50 people. Much smaller operation than I would have guessed.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

It looks like Bavaria is going to get Dufour and Grand Soleil:
Bavaria preferred bidder for Dufour and Del Pardo

Paulo, one thing to remember about Hunter is that while they're big by sailboat standards, they're part of the Luhrs Marine Group and Luhrs also produces the Luhrs, Mainship, Ovation and Silverton brands - and the power boat market has just gotten hammered - much worse than the sailboat industry - at least here in the states. Luhrs consolidated their power boat brands last year, closed their plant in Florida and moved production to their New Jersey plant.
Luhrs, Mainship, Silverton and Ovation centralise

Scuttlebut around the docks this summer was there wasn't much going on there as far as building new power boats but I really don't know how true that is.

I think the math is pretty brutal right now. Companies that have cash reserves (regardless of size) are in a position to take advantage of this down economy. Companies that don't have cash reserves are in BIG trouble.

I'm afraid there may be a lot fewer brands in Annapolis next year.

Jim


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

JimMcGee said:


> ...
> 
> Paulo, one thing to remember about Hunter is that while they're big by sailboat standards, they're part of the Luhrs Marine Group and Luhrs also produces the Luhrs, Mainship, Ovation and Silverton brands - and the power boat market has just gotten hammered - much worse than the sailboat industry - at least here in the states. Luhrs consolidated their power boat brands last year, closed their plant in Florida and moved production to their New Jersey plant.
> ...Jim


Jim,
I keep forgetting that the sailboat market is on most countries just a tinny fraction of the Motorboat market.

Probably you are right. Even on Europe, almost all companies that were in the 80's and 90's strictly sailboat companies are making today also Motorboats and I would not be surprised if some were already selling more motorboats than sailboats.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

That's official now. I hope Bavaria intervention has the same results as the one made by Hanse on Dehler: Same quality, prices 10% down

Today Bavaria Yachtbau GmbH and Cantiere del Pardo Group (Grand Soleil and Dufour) announce the signing of an agreement for the immediate lease and the subsequent acquisition of the Cantiere del Pardo group's operations by Bavaria.

As part of the deal Bavaria will immediately contribute the capital needed to support the business of the Cantiere del Pardo Group while Lenders work to restructure existing balance sheet debt. The three brands (Grand Soleil, Dufour and Bavaria) will continue to serve their existing customer base in line with their current positions on the market, to produce products in their current facilities and to sell them through their distribution networks.

Dr. Jens Ludmann, CEO of Bavaria Yachtbau commented on the acquisition: "We are very happy to be able to bring together these great brands to create a top global player. Providing liquidity and a strong balance sheet will support the business's growth aspirations. We see significant synergies between the three brands in various areas of the business and these synergies will enable us to grow and enhance our market competitiveness."

Bavaria Yachtbau: News from the yard

Regards

Paulo


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