# New here, and need advice on finding the right boat.



## Paul Revere (May 27, 2018)

Hi Everyone, 

I need some help on finding the right boat. Long story short is my parents want a boat for retirement, and I want a boat to sail and do charters on in my spare time until i can escape and do it full time. So were splitting the cost, and were having conflicting opinions on what to get. 

The things we agree on:
38-45ish for length
Shoal draft(6 feet is really to deep, 4.5 to 5.5 is ideal for the slip we have.)
2 cabins (separate aft and forward cabins)

Things we disagree on:
Beam: I don't mind a wide boat but they view beam above anything else, so they want a Catalina 15ft beam on a 38ft boat, so they think anything else is too cramped. 
Keel: I don't want a bolt on keel no matter what, and that rules out all Catalina's, Hunters, and Benateaus. 
Cockpit: I like centers cause the aft cabin has room, but they think we should go with aft cause it looks better
Aesthetics vs Function: they want a boat that looks modern(they say this will attract more charter customers) I'd rather have an overbuilt older boat and not have to worry about stuff failing as much.

If anyone knows of a boat model, that is on the extremely beamy side that doesn't have a Bolt on keel, Please pass it on. I think if we can find something that at least meets both of those, we can work on the others. 

Our budget is 60k give or take, and the boat needs to be extremely well maintained.

I know im looking for the golden goose on pretty much anything, but I figured if anyone knows of a boat that it will fit, it would be sailnet. 

Thanks for your help,
Paul


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

Paul Revere said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I need some help on finding the right boat. Long story short is my parents want a boat for retirement, and I want a boat to sail and do charters on in my spare time until i can escape and do it full time. So were splitting the cost, and were having conflicting opinions on what to get.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your contribution to our nation Mr. Revere. :ship-captain::ship-captain:


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## Paul Revere (May 27, 2018)

sailforlife said:


> Thank you for your contribution to our nation Mr. Revere. :ship-captain::ship-captain:


Lol, your quite welcome. Got to foil them british plans!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

On an older boat you are going to have trouble getting insurance these days. Chartering without insurance isn't a terribly good idea.
Sounds like you want to do day charters. Nobody is going to care whether it is a spiffy modern design or an older one, if the boat is clean and shipshape. Term charter is a whole other ball of wax and that's mostly about creature comforts and cooking. Both types of charter require a pretty big and comfortable cockpit (no mainsheet right in the middle or in the companionway), preferably well shaded and relatively rain resistant. Nobody wants to pay to be sitting below in a hot stuffy cabin while a rain shower passes.
It may be totally illegal to charter at all from the marina or a private dock in a residential neighborhood.
There are a lot more considerations than you've set forth, so I'd suggest a bit more research on things like your captain's license, business licenses, boat & charter insurance (usually way too expensive for part time chartering) and liquor licenses, before you start looking for a boat. Forget about a BYOB charter business; it won't fly.


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## Paul Revere (May 27, 2018)

Thanks for the Reply 

I know its gonna be a while before I do any charters, heck in order to get my six pack captains license, i need a lot more time at sea. I kinda wanted to learn on my own boat. 

Thanks for the advice on the charters though, I agree it wont really matter to the day charters which is going to be 90% of what i do.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Pearson 424 is a nice older Boat. Just to start, spend hours and days on Yachtworld and just surf. Honestly any 45 footer in the 60K range will probably need a lot of upgrading and modernizing. That's a good range but a 65K 35 footer and 45 footer are two different animals. Good hunting.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Paul Revere said:


> Shoal draft(6 feet is really to deep, 4.5 to 5.5 is ideal for the slip we have.)
> 
> Things we disagree on:
> Beam: they want a Catalina 15ft beam on a 38ft boat,
> ...


Hi Paul its usually the other way around where the younger person wants the more modern design. 

I am 100% with your parents.

I *know* you are not an engineer 
There has probably been very few quality cruising boats built without bolt on keels in the last 30 years. 
So in those 30 years there has been huge engineering advancements in, well, everything from materials to production methods, appliances, electronics, rigging, sail plans and methods, everything.
So a newer boat will be faster, larger, safer, less kit will break, easier to sail, more comfortable, more useful stowage, more uninterrupted deck space for guests, more cockpit space, twin wheels to enlarge cockpit, better refrigeration, invention of freezers now important for charters, better cooking facilities, safer propane and electrics, a more efficient cheaper to run engine, easier to clean, maintain and larger spaced to work upon.

All this makes easier and more economical to charter. Thus more guests, thus you make more money and have less or negligible downtime.

But ask CaptA about chartering as that what he does.

Why are there now no center cockpit boats made of that size? No 'few', not 'some' but I don't think theres a single solitary boat in production thats 38 to 45 feet thats center cockpit.
why?
Because the passage aft is tiny, pokey and a huge waste of space.

Finally, unless you have some type of classic sailboat, like CaptA, you will find charter guests do not like old boats. They like newer, slicker, shiny ones. But to keep a 'classic' boat afloat you need to work like a blue-assed fly, it becomes a job not a lifestyle.

One other point, a family point... often when its parents and kids combination it tends to be the parents that are playing the majority share... so I would suggest you go with the side that makes the decision. Otherwise they may just say no and spend $60k on overseas vacations. Monaco is very nice this time of year 

Re: fear tactics about modern boats: Fiat Chrysler just announced a recall of vehicles for some safety concern. 5 MILLLION vehicles! 5 million! Yes, there will be some on the internet who say auto makers are terrible and they vehicles are worse... but no one is ditching their auto and buying a horse and cart. Whoa Neddy, its a traffic light! 

Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Oops, I just told you a lie... Southerly have a 42 footer thats a center cockpit. Theres probably a few in that size range, but few of none in the 38 to 40 foot range.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I did a delivery to the Caribbean of a early 80s Contest 38. It was a center cockpit and quite roomy, nice galley too. It was not a fast boat. Would be a nice charter boat.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Paul Revere said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I need some help on finding the right boat. Long story short is my parents want a boat for retirement, and I want a boat to sail and do charters on in my spare time until i can escape and do it full time. So were splitting the cost, and were having conflicting opinions on what to get.
> 
> ...


For a center cockpit you might take a look at the Whitby 42.

To resolve the center vs aft cockpit configuration, the Pearson 424 as already sugested is easily the answer.

It is an aft cockpit boat with a full aft cabin in front of the cockpit. They came in Ketch, cutter and sloop configurations with A, B and C layouts.

When I was shopping for a liveaboard I bought an A layout ketch. The sloop or the cutter would give a less crowded cockpit but the cockpit is large and comfortable.

Pearson 424


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## Paul Revere (May 27, 2018)

Thanks for all the advice Guy's!

I'll look at some of the models you suggested, we've looked at Pearson 424/422's in the past, but none seemed to be in the right condition, we'll keep looking for the right one. 

Anyone have any opinions on endeavor 42s?

Thanks,
Paul


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## chicory83 (Dec 21, 2009)

SanderO said:


> I did a delivery to the Caribbean of a early 80s Contest 38. It was a center cockpit and quite roomy, nice galley too. It was not a fast boat. Would be a nice charter boat.


Second this suggestion. Sailed a Contest 38 Ketch with my dad for many years. Solidly built and comfortable, but as Sander says, not a fast boat.


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## curtis742 (Jan 26, 2016)

So just how many sailboats are fast? Catamarans maybe. Keel boats are all slow. Do the math, square root of the LWL multiplied by 1.34? You would need a boat over 50ft to get close to 10 knots. For the price range go wide, at at least there's a lot of room to enjoy while poking along at 7 knots. Most older boats will need a ton of work and upgrades in that price range. Buy a 60k 42 foot boat and spend another 30k on repairing not counting all the sweat equity or double that at least if you have someone else do the work. Just go ahead and fork over some major cash and get a cat
Shallow draft, wide beam, pretty darn fast as far as blow boats are concerned and more attractive for charter customers.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Paul Revere said:


> Thanks for all the advice Guy's!
> 
> I'll look at some of the models you suggested, we've looked at Pearson 424/422's in the past, but none seemed to be in the right condition, we'll keep looking for the right one.
> 
> ...


I know the Endeavour 42's pretty well. My Mom had an Endeavour 37 and 40, and I helped a fellow rebuild a 42 after it came out of charter. The Endeavour 42 did not sail particularly well, and was not all that well constructed.

For a charter boat you want a boat that will sail well in a the typical range of conditions or you will end up motoring a lot with a lot of dissatisfied guests.

Also the cockpit on most sub-42 foot center cockpit boats are generally higher out of the water and so you would be more likely to end up with seasick customers.

Jeff


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

curtis742 said:


> So just how many sailboats are fast? Catamarans maybe. Keel boats are all slow. Do the math, square root of the LWL multiplied by 1.34? You would need a boat over 50ft to get close to 10 knots. For the price range go wide, at at least there's a lot of room to enjoy while poking along at 7 knots. Most older boats will need a ton of work and upgrades in that price range. Buy a 60k 42 foot boat and spend another 30k on repairing not counting all the sweat equity or double that at least if you have someone else do the work. Just go ahead and fork over some major cash and get a cat
> Shallow draft, wide beam, pretty darn fast as far as blow boats are concerned and more attractive for charter customers.


I have a 36s and it's definitely a faster boat than the 38 ketch... both have nice large comfortable cockpits...


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

Hi,
If still interested in the subject... Not clear if you want a boat for your own sailing fun or for chartering as a business - you'll need a lot of experience (years!) to safely operate a charter business and for a commercial certificate plus the insurance etc. etc. - also guests will need a huge cockpit - that's not a center cockpit boat, unless if you get an Oyster or HR 53' (20 years old for 500,000++...). Center cockpits work reasonably well with a design of at least 42' boats and more on the modern side as you need a wide transom (otherwise, no reasonable aft stateroom) - but for these you need a budget of at least $120,000 (including a minimal refit on any boat you buy that was perfectly maintained...)

Also, no keel bolts? - that would limit your searches even more... most boats are designed with bolted keels and if well maintained there are no problems with that.

Bottom line, to my opinion, with your budget and requirements, you can probably only get a Hunter, maybe Catalina with 36-40 of the older era +/- 1990. Jeanneau and Beneteau are generally more expensive - there is a good inventory on less than 40' boats and you can find also more reputable and better built boats (Sabre, Pearson, Bristol) some are in a superb condition.

Best of luck!


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