# 80 mile move with no motor????



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

I just got a boat that does no have a working motor, that I need to get up toward Baltimore/ Annapolis from about 70-80 miles south. she's a heavy, slow vessel that I have never sailed. She is a ketch, and I am a novice sailor. wondering what kind of ideas you "experts" can come up with to get my girl to make the trip in one piece. I was thinking about getting a tow out into the chessy, and try to sail her up, then find another tow in to port...


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

not a problem, just might be a slow trip. although this is the perfect time of year for it, the winds are still good and the days are not bad with no storms normally. just cold at night, do it with the right gear and do it in one shot, should just be one over night.

it might be done in one day are three. where in baltimore are you going as getting out is easy getting in can be much worse?


----------



## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

If you are a novice I would suggest getting an experienced guy to go along at the very least... I wouldn't attempt it without a working motor personally.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Three posts in and nobody has lobbed a Pardy?


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

yea I Feel decent about sailing her in the day time, But I would really like to have an Experienced sailor that has sailed ketches accompany me! If any of you guys would like to make the trip with a 21year old that really loves sailing Please let me know. I promise I’m not your average 21 year old. Would be willing to help you with your boat if you can help me with mine. I am quite capable when it comes to boat work, and have helped many sailors down in Florida with their projects, and love working on boats. I also would like to know of your opinions on a good marina to put her on the hard in the Baltimore/Annapolis area that doesn’t mind me doing work there. If any one out there would be able to tow me in once I get there, I would greatly appreciate it as well, and will be willing to do much in return!


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

Pardey, I have all his books, and the same dinghy!!


----------



## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Don't know your area but one thing I would be concerned
about would be being run down by commercial trafic if you
lose your wind.

Dabnis


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Cruxandreams said:


> Pardey, I have all his books, and the same dinghy!!


Great Neptune's nads, you are a disciple. With an engine, a novice sailor is only an occasional temporary hazard- without auxiliary power you should be marked on every chart and your mugshot posted in every marina, boatyard, SeaTow office and Coastie wardroom. Fix the engine, take the trip. If you can't fix the engine and can't afford to replace it then you shouldn't have bought the boat. (Here's a smiley to take away the sting:  )


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

which marina is a loaded question, where do you live? as it makes a big difference as what works for you. south side of the patapsco river is white rocks, cheaper lets you work on your own boat but the owner goes thru moods. north side is many but old bay is cheap and lets you do the work. both are easy to get into but both are cheaper places with the draw back of being cheaper.

check your PM's


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

bljones said:


> Great Neptune's nads, you are a disciple. With an engine, a novice sailor is only an occasional temporary hazard- without auxiliary power you should be marked on every chart and your mugshot posted in every marina, boatyard, SeaTow office and Coastie wardroom. Fix the engine, take the trip. If you can't fix the engine and can't afford to replace it then you shouldn't have bought the boat. (Here's a smiley to take away the sting:  )


I sailed my friends 42' cement double keeled "no motor "Im talkin SSSSSLLOOOOWWWWW boat from Stuart Florida to near miami, "outside", which let me tell you was quite the Ordeal! Mind you it was at the absolute calmest time of the year with south winds at 0-15 knots with gales we could ride a couple times a day. I can sail, but an experianced helping hand would be quite ideal obviously. This is the bay and not the ocean, however I move "not sail" another friends 39 allied mistress through the Chesapeake north to south. No motor sucks, but can be done, all working nav lights with gps plus chart should keep us safe from traffic.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

At 21 I'd have called this an adventure. Hell at 57 it STILL sounds like an adventure! If I wasn't recovering from surgery right now I'd drive down and join you for a couple of days, just for the adventure.

Gary H. Lucas


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

scottyt said:


> which marina is a loaded question, where do you live? as it makes a big difference as what works for you. south side of the patapsco river is white rocks, cheaper lets you work on your own boat but the owner goes thru moods. north side is many but old bay is cheap and lets you do the work. both are easy to get into but both are cheaper places with the draw back of being cheaper.
> 
> check your PM's


Live in Baltimore, I need to find a marina that is work friendly, with good people, moods are not something I care to deal with. I look to find a good community of boaters, working on their boats. She will be one the hard for a little while, so I want to find a decent place.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I DO have a sense of adventure, which is why I DON'T ask for advice when I do something stu, er adventurous. If one asks for advice one is either looking to a) be talked into doing something, b) talked out of doing something, or c) looking for someone to point out trips and traps that one hadn't thought of yet , which leads to more questions aiming to answer either a) or b). By the answers the OP has given he wants answer a). If he can justify why, I just might agree with him.

Or we can just blindly encourage an unknown sailor with an unknown boat and an unknown skill level to attempt a journey well beyond his previous experience with a new-to-him boat across one of the busiest waterways on the east coast.

Oh yeah... with no motor. Which begs the question: if the iron jenny is dead, what is the condition of the rest of the systems on the boat?


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

You guys have no sense of adventure. A bit ago I paid a kid to use his dads 20' center console to tow this 36' Crocker schooner from south ct to New Haven. I had just raised the boat from the being sunk and it still leaked gallons an hour. I had gas powered pumps on board. It was a dead glass day on the water and we were moving pretty good until we got within about 300 yards of our detination when the wind piped up to about 5 knots and the little power boat was tossed around like a puppy being walked by fat man on crack. We just barely make it to the dock.
Now that's an adventure.
The baby in the picture just turned 30 a few days ago.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

PS. Mr. Jones is right of course. My post was to demonstrate how unbelievably lucky I was not any intelligence or experience.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

You shoulda' posted a photo of your girlfriend--these guys would be camped out on your dock.

If you have a dink with an outboard, you could sail relatively close, drop the sails and tow the boat to the marina. Just be sure the wind and tide are slack, especially as you're heading under Key Bridge. The tidal rip through the bridge pilings can be real nasty.

Good Luck,

Gary


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

bljones said:


> I DO have a sense of adventure, which is why I DON'T ask for advice when I do something stu, er adventurous. If one asks for advice one is either looking to a) be talked into doing something, b) talked out of doing something, or c) looking for someone to point out trips and traps that one hadn't thought of yet , which leads to more questions aiming to answer either a) or b). By the answers the OP has given he wants answer a). If he can justify why, I just might agree with him.
> 
> Or we can just blindly encourage an unknown sailor with an unknown boat and an unknown skill level to attempt a journey well beyond his previous experience with a new-to-him boat across one of the busiest waterways on the east coast.
> 
> Oh yeah... with no motor. Which begs the question: if the iron jenny is dead, what is the condition of the rest of the systems on the boat?


Appreciate your response. However, I am posting on this site, because it is a forum where boaters ask other boaters questions as they would in a community of boaters Like I knew so well in the south. I have yet to come across a fellow sailor in person that would attempt to discourage a young sailor such as myself from trying to accomplish his task/dream with similar words to yours. Again your response has been taken to consideration, But I want to hear positive ideas instead of turning this thread into a back and forth of wise cracks. Thanks just trying to stay on topic!


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

davidpm said:


> You guys have no sense of adventure. A bit ago I paid a kid to use his dads 20' center console to tow this 36' Crocker schooner from south ct to New Haven. I had just raised the boat from the being sunk and it still leaked gallons an hour. I had gas powered pumps on board. It was a dead glass day on the water and we were moving pretty good until we got within about 300 yards of our detination when the wind piped up to about 5 knots and the little power boat was tossed around like a puppy being walked by fat man on crack. We just barely make it to the dock.
> Now that's an adventure.
> The baby in the picture just turned 30 a few days ago.


Awesome, sounds like something "I would do"!


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

The reality of course was that the whole escapade was planned by a couple of 20 years olds who knew nothing. The only reason we didn't sink both boats was just dumb luck absolutely nothing more.

Why don't you just call your local BoatUS or TowBoat guy tell them you are a member and be up front and say your boat is in place x and needs repair work done in place y and want a tow.

It is a shot. And if you pull it off even with some cost at least you have no risk. They know how to tow safely. If you don't want to fib about being a member to just ask the question just go down to the dock in the evening and chat up some friendly looking captains and get them to make the call for you. The phone call doesn't cost them anything.
I have boatUs and they have been remarkably helpful. You don't want to take advantage of them but if you ask nicely?


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Cruxandreams said:


> I have yet to come across a fellow sailor in person that would attempt to discourage a young sailor such as myself from trying to accomplish his task/dream with similar words to yours.


Then maybe you need to hang with more honest sailors, kid. I'm just telling you to your face what your southern sailing buddies are chuckling about behind your back. If you think honesty is a negative, snowflake, you better HTFU.

I'm not trying to discourage you or encourage you, kid- I'm answering a question YOU asked. If you don't like the response, maybe the problem isn't me.

Just because your offended, it doesn't make you right.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> Awesome, sounds like something "I would do"!


I reread your plan and it is what you didn't say that was worrisome. 
The following are a list of items that if true would be in your favor.

1. You are an experienced sailor.
2. You know this boats rig well.
3. You know how this boat handles well.
4. You know this boat is rigged for single handling or you have experienced crew.
5. You know both harbors and the route well.
6. You have good experience in using the ground tackle on this boat and know it is in good shape.
7. You have a few extra days to make the trip.
8. You are certain that everything else about the boat is sound like the standing rigging, hull and *steering*.

You see we don't know much about you. The more of the above positives the higher the chance you will have a good trip. You may have grown up on these waters know them well have sailed every summer on ketches similar to the one you bought and the boat has been professionally surveyed, including a rigging survey and you have two weeks and a life long sailor for a mate. You might just make it.

If you answer no to more than half of the above questions you will most likely be on the phone to 911 which can get costly and besides the embarrassment, which you will get over, may cause you to abandon sailing which would be the real loss.

In short we just don't know enough to know enough about you to give sound advice.

What you might find interesting is if you asked your question in a different way.
How many experienced sailors would attempt to make the trip by sail only based on what you tell us about the boat. That I would like to hear myself.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

bljones said:


> Then maybe you need to hang with more honest sailors, kid. I'm just telling you to your face what your southern sailing buddies are chuckling about behind your back. If you think honesty is a negative, snowflake, you better HTFU.
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage you or encourage you, kid- I'm answering a question YOU asked. If you don't like the response, maybe the problem isn't me.
> 
> Just because your offended, it doesn't make you right.


Offended, I'm not offended, although you did make that pretty much the point of your comment, now didn't you. you remind me of kids I went to high school with that would get online, talk things they never had the kahunas to say to some one in person, and feel good because they felt for a glimmer of their life they got over on some one, instead of the usual opposite. Again I appreciate your "first" comment, and I would like to keep this thread to helpful ideas, instead of highschoolers trying to get over on each other. I may be young, but have experienced more than Many old dogs have smelled.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Cruxandreams said:


> Offended, I'm not offended, although you did make that pretty much the point of your comment, now didn't you. you remind me of kids I went to high school with that would get online, talk things they never had the kahunas to say to some one in person, and feel good because they felt for a glimmer of their life they got over on some one, instead of the usual opposite. Again I appreciate your "first" comment, and I would like to keep this thread to helpful ideas, instead of highschoolers trying to get over on each other. I may be young, but have experienced more than Many old dogs have smelled.


 Kid, you have sailed on an Allied Princess in Florida- don't overstate your experience, and don't insult somebody whose advice you might need. If you don't like what you're hearing, ask yourself why- you're getting advice from sailors who have BTDT and got t-shirts older than you. A week ago you were falling in love with a leaky teaky Cheoy Lee wearing a tent and now you bought an engineless dream. Cut the passive-aggressive crap and take what you hear in the spirit it is intended- to keep you safe and pursuing your dream, not embarking on a nightmare.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

davidpm said:


> I reread your plan and it is what you didn't say that was worrisome.
> The following are a list of items that if true would be in your favor.
> 
> 1. You are an experienced sailor.
> ...


Thank you for stating that as an adult would! Your right I haven't given much detail here have I. Mainly because I have seen many negative "Cheoy lee" Thoughts on this site. That's right, She is a cheoy lee 33 cutter, with very solid chain plates, and good rigging. Hull is very solid, and spars are rock solid. Steering is tight as a drum. Obviously I don't know the boat, and, never really planed on attempting the trip alone. I was also posting to see if people knew about tow options or ideas. I do not think sailing her is too far fetched of an idea with the help of a good old sailor that really knows how to handle a ketch. And I do understand that telling a learning sailor to just go for it is a stupid thing to do, But I would expect respectable responses like yours, Thanks!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Then maybe you need to hang with more honest sailors, kid. I'm just telling you to your face what your southern sailing buddies are chuckling about behind your back. If you think honesty is a negative, snowflake, you better HTFU.
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage you or encourage you, kid- I'm answering a question YOU asked. If you don't like the response, maybe the problem isn't me.
> 
> Just because your offended, it doesn't make you right.


bl, dude - what's got you so cranked up? Actually, you're the only one whacking on the kid. The others are at least giving some good advice.

Crux - as for me, another novice sailor, I wouldn't do it without some help. You actually sound like you've sailed much more than I have, so you might be fine. It just seems a bit much on a boat you've never sailed before - especially with no power to get you out of a tight spot you might get into while learning about her.

Good luck dude.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> . I may be young, but have experienced more than Many old dogs have smelled.


Well, if you have had any relevant experience you wouldn't be asking questions here.
Tell us more about the boat. Model, make, designer. Condition.
Do you have dingy with motor?
I feel overworked and depressed so I may take up your offer. Besides I'm strong believer in sailboats, not motorboats with sails. Basically I'm very much inline with Jerome FitzGerald 
Amazon.com: Jerome FitzGerald: Books

Did you read the guy, BTW? Any other books? What is your favorite one?


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

CrazyRu said:


> I feel overworked and depressed...


Now that's no way to live. You need to go sailing!

You guys HAVE to take some pics on this trip. This could be an epic story!


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> bl, dude - what's got you so cranked up? Actually, you're the only one whacking on the kid. The others are at least giving some good advice.


Oh ferpetesake, since when is it "whacking" on somebody to answer a question? I know you like to be defender of all newbies and the self-appointed Sailnet Welcome Wagon, Smack, so you NEED me. You can't be Good Cop unless there is a Bad Cop. So, I'll be the big ol' meany who, you know, makes this dreamer actually think about what he is proposing,, and maybe, oh I don't know, provide some more real information defending why he CAN and SHOULD do this...
of which he has done precious little, but he, and you, apparently, are all butthurt about how mean and negative I am by not simply patting him on the back and waving goodbye as he slowly leaves the dock.


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Congrats on your new boat by the way. You know if you have the experience to sail this new boat of yours to it's new home. If you aren't too worried about it, go for it. You do have good ground tackle don't you? It's not like you're talking about a circumnavigation here, you just need to sail 80 NM or so. It wasn't that long ago that sailboats didn't have engines, I don't think you are going to die attempting this. Do some homework, plan for the unexpected and watch the weather. Make sure your VHF and cell phone work, and take enough groceries and water for twice as long as you figure it will take.
Report back here after your successful sail.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

CrazyRu said:


> Well, if you have had any relevant experience you wouldn't ask questions here.
> Tell us more about the boat. Model, make, designer. Condition.
> Do you have dingy with motor?
> I feel overworked and depressed so I may take up your offer. Besides I'm strong believer in sailboats, not motorboats with sails. Basically I'm very much inline with Jerome FitzGerald
> ...


I have a fatty knees, looking to get an outboard. The rigging is in decent condition, not great, but pretty good. Sailing hardware seams all functional, I was worried to put her make up because I felt it would side track to the main point, seams like no one thinks much of cheoys here. My friend owns a 33 offshore that I sailed on quite a few times, twice with motor issues, that we worked threw, and I liked sailing. But my boat is pretty solid, I am definitely replacing the deck first thing when I get her to her new home, but sailing wise she is capable of the trip.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

bljones said:


> of which he has done precious little, but he, and you, apparently, are all butthurt about how mean and negative I am by not simply patting him on the back and waving goodbye as he slowly leaves the dock.


And what is wrong with simply patting him? It is protected bay. There is no much recreational traffic in this time of year. In worst case scenario the kid will loose his boat. No big deal, he is young, he will make it up. i mean, seriously, what is wrong with the guy sailing 33 ft boat without motor?


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> But my boat is pretty solid, I am definitely replacing the deck first thing when I get her to her new home, but sailing wise she is capable of the trip.


Well, you have an option of getting liability insurance and unlimited towing from Boat US. IT is cheap, and it will cover most of the problems, you just sail up to marina and call Boat tow US. 
Or you can learn how to be self sufficient. it is not much harder either. It will require a bit more time for waiting for just right conditions, and good preparation.
Dingy with motor is nice to have also. 33 ft boat can be pushed/maneuvered/towed with small dingy.
When do you plan the trip?


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

CrazyRu said:


> And what is wrong with simply patting him? It is protected bay. There is no much recreational traffic in this time of year. It worst case scenario the kid will loose his boat. No big deal, he is young, he will make it up. i mean, seriously, what is wrong with the guy sailing 33 ft boat without motor?


Novice sailor, no motor, unknown and apparently unsurveyed boat, unknown harbour at both ends, sailing through the busiest ship traffic between Miami and Newark...
yes, you're absolutely right, I should just shut up and wish him the best. Go for it kid!

There, is everybody happy now?


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

CrazyRu said:


> Well, if you have had any relevant experience you wouldn't be asking questions here.
> Tell us more about the boat. Model, make, designer. Condition.
> Do you have dingy with motor?
> I feel overworked and depressed so I may take up your offer. Besides I'm strong believer in sailboats, not motorboats with sails. Basically I'm very much inline with Jerome FitzGerald
> ...


"The guy"? no I haven't, definitely look into it though. I have read about there trip on Seraffyn, and their oriental trip, have but haven't read "self-sufficient sailor. Just got details of classic boat construction by larry, looks like some real interesting info on his building of Taleisin.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

CrazyRu said:


> Well, you have an option of getting liability insurance and unlimited towing from Boat US. IT is cheap, and it will cover most of the problems, you just sail up to marina and call Boat tow US.
> Or you can learn how to be self sufficient. it is not much harder either. It will require a bit more time for waiting for just right conditions, and good preparation.
> Dingy with motor is nice to have also. 33 ft boat can be pushed/maneuvered/towed with small dingy.
> When do you plan the trip?


Plan the trip no sooner than the end of this month, more likely later depending. probably get shot down by the red baron on this one, but was wondering about a sculling oar, "been reading too much pardey" ha.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> "The guy"? no I haven't, definitely look into it though. I have read about there trip on Seraffyn, and their oriental trip, have but haven't read "self-sufficient sailor. Just got details of classic boat construction by larry, looks like some real interesting info on his building of Taleisin.


I was talking about Jerome FitzGerald, not Larry and Linn Pardey.
FitzGerald is sort of "must read", if you dream about really self sufficient sailing.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> Plan the trip no sooner than the end of this month, more likely later depending. probably get shot down by the red baron on this one, but was wondering about a sculling oar, "been reading too much pardey" ha.


In my opinion, on 33 ft boat rowing will work better than sculling.

are you going to get liability insurance?


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

bljones said:


> Novice sailor, no motor, unknown and apparently unsurveyed boat, unknown harbour at both ends, sailing through the busiest ship traffic between Miami and Newark...
> yes, you're absolutely right, I should just shut up and wish him the best. Go for it kid!
> 
> There, is everybody happy now?


Well, in my opinion, it is either the guy gets life changing experience or we will see Darvin's evolution at work.
C'mon guys, we walk streets and drive highways every day.


----------



## PanchoVilla (Mar 18, 2011)

Will somebody please move this thread to the motorboat forum? 

It just amazes me that so few of you armchair salts seems to believe it possible to actually use a sailboat for it's intended purpose, which, last I checked, is to move across water using sails and wind.

I mean Jesus. It's a sailboat. The young salt has balls and work ethic and a sense of adventure. He doesn't need a holier-than-thou lecture. What he needs is a couple of good hands to help him sail, actually sail, the boat for a day or two. It's kind of pathetic that none of you have stepped up to help. If I lived nearby and spent all of my waking hours pontificating about sailing on the internet, you bet I'd take the chance to do a trip with a real sailor--by which I mean the dictionary definition: "One who sails," a/k/a the Kid. 

If the weather is right any half-decent sailor should be able to put it on the dock. Then you tell the dude at the marina to haul it out. It's really not that hard. I am pretty much exactly a one-half decent sailor, and performed said maneuver last weekend in a boat I'd never sailed before. Coincidentally, I was about about one-half drunk at the time. 

Crux, here's your plan: Get a couple of bros to help you out. Tell them it should take a couple days but might take four. Check the weather report before you go. Stay out of the shipping lanes. Double-check that anchor. Then go. 

There's a good chance something will happen that will be a pain in the ass at the time, and a good story later. It's almost sure to be a lot of fun. Almost no chance you'll make the Darwin list. Sorry.


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Let me think bum motor CHECK

Unknown standing rigging that turned out to have issues HEAD STAY under the furler ready to pop CHECK

East river and commercial traffic CHECK

Myself and my friends know what were doing and we knew enough NOT to try and sail a boat that we were unsure if the mast was gonna stay up into a marina full of million dollar boats

And for good measure we had to wait for the correct current and weather window during which the current behaved as expected BUT there was ZERO wind


----------



## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

Cruxandreams said:


> I just got a boat that does no have a working motor, that I need to get up toward Baltimore/ Annapolis from about 70-80 miles south. she's a heavy, slow vessel that I have never sailed. She is a ketch, and I am a novice sailor. wondering what kind of ideas you "experts" can come up with to get my girl to make the trip in one piece. I was thinking about getting a tow out into the chessy, and try to sail her up, then find another tow in to port...


You'll need crew. Thinking of the challenges:

Sailing in tight channels.
Speed/progress limited by sailing.
Dealing with setting up the tow.
Anchoring under sails.

You'll want crew to help manage those situations. Getting out and back in from open water will mean sailing channels which is a PITA single handed. Managing sails and steering in a narrow waterway is a lot of work solo.

You don't know how long your trip will take and won't be able to "iron sail" quickly to safe anchorages. So you'll want to be able to have more than 1 person for sailing the open water so 1 person can be down sleeping while the other keeps her cruising.

You'll also need tows in and out of the marinas. Have you priced this yet?

The channels in and out to the open water, you'll want to time them so the tides work with you.

How are you charging your electronics?

I'm a novice myself and the above are just the things I've thought of. I'm sure there's more.


----------



## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Trips like this have been made with sailing vessels Long before there were engines. Just wanted to point that minor detail out.
But plan your trip. try to be in the Chesapeake bay during a flood tide. This will give you a push. Once it has become an Ebb you may want to anchor until the next flood or NOT. Pending on how you want to do this and the time retrains. 
You can have a friend with a good power vessel give you a tow for part of the trip. Usually at the end so it will be easier to get into your marina. But if you are being towed for any section of your trip. Do so at a slow bell. It will be easier on both vessels.
Staying out of the channels will help avoid the commercial vessels... But double check your charts of the area for any underwater hazards.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

I have a Garmin gosmap72s I will be using hooked up to the battery so charge shouldn't be a problem. However no motor means no alternator, but its a Brand spankin new battery so I think it should do the job for the trip. I plan to get a tow in and out, guess Ill just ask around the marinas I'm looking at, if no luck sea tow is a boater friend. With insurance I'm still doing the research. I am going to try to get insurance for her, but I herd that with out a motor you cant get insurance...don't know the truth in that, but I will have the insurance thing figured out before the trip starts. About ground tackle, I have enough ground tackle to hold a small cruise ship in place, just need some other hands to deploy or take the wheel while I deploy and drop sails. Definitely gona be ridding tide, and probably hook up when she starts rippin back out. So really the bottom line is, Who wants to get on a motor less sailboat and spend a couple days of adventure. Of coure I will provide food and everything we will need, and you will make friends with some one that will always be willing to help you when you need a hand.


----------



## aaronwindward (Aug 8, 2010)

My advice, as a novice who bought an engineless sailboat a few months back, is try to get your auxiliary propulsion working before the epic sail. If you're looking at eventually getting an outboard, or you have some easy way to mount one, I suggest getting ahold of one somehow (buying or otherwise), and mounting it for your trip.

This is essentially what my girlfriend and I did. We had some difficulties because the motor we bought turned out to have some problems, which really forced our hand due to a limited departure window. We also had some difficulties because neither of us had ever used an outboard before; just stuff like figuring out why it won't start, getting it to start if its flooded, etc.

A perk in buying an outboard for a new boat is that you don't have to commit to it any more than the relatively low purchase price, and if you buy it new from a reputable place, you have a degree of confidence in enough hours ot trouble-free operation to get you where you need to go.

If you have the money, and you're planning on going outboard eventually, it just makes sense. If you don't have the money, I understand, but it will move your voyage from 'relatively easy, with perhaps some epic moments' to 'potentially seriously difficult, with failure cases that are hard to fix.' For instance, if you end up getting into a strange place that's difficult to tack out of, or you run aground, you will be extremely sad.

*Very important:* If you decide to attempt it without the motor, and you have a girlfriend, do not bring her, unless she is very hardy. Seriously. Otherwise, the inevitable bad thing will happen, she'll get completely traumatized, and you'll never get her on board again.

Anyway, from one novice to another, good luck! Make sure to post a trip account of your epic voyage afterwards.


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

For the most part you cant get insurance without a survey and if you do take the option of insurance that allows a self-done survey and you miss something basic that sinks the boat there will be some issues


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

aaronwindward said:


> My advice, as a novice who bought an engineless sailboat a few months back, is try to get your auxiliary propulsion working before the epic sail. If you're looking at eventually getting an outboard, or you have some easy way to mount one, I suggest getting ahold of one somehow (buying or otherwise), and mounting it for your trip.
> 
> This is essentially what my girlfriend and I did. We had some difficulties because the motor we bought turned out to have some problems, which really forced our hand due to a limited departure window. We also had some difficulties because neither of us had ever used an outboard before; just stuff like figuring out why it won't start, getting it to start if its flooded, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks yea Unfortunately I just sold my yamaha 9.9 long shaft about a month ago that I used on my last boat. Although the stern on my boat is kind at a steep inward angle, not sure how a bracket would fit up under there anyway. As for the inboard it needs replaced from what the seller told me. I found the same motor for sale in Boston for a decent price, but getting it in is something that will take much time for me consitering I have almost no knowledge of diesel motors. About the insurance yea what will it cost on an older boat like mine?? yea I'm not too worried about her sinking and being in trouble, I'v raised a boat before with a compressor and truck tubes. and the chessy is pretty shallow. But non the less your right insurance is the way to go


----------



## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

If we're just talking about propulsion during calms, or to get out of the ship channel, or up a narrow cut how bout a 4-6hp outboard on the dinghy. lash it alongside near the cockpit, and lah-de-dah? Probably get 2-3 knots out of it. In non-calms you're sailing anyway (tho ketches aren't all that close-winded generally). We're not out on the bounding main here for the most part. A little tricky in tight quarters but should work. Pick your forecast, and as Boasun says, if tide and wind are foul, your anchor is your friend. And gunkholing with the dinghy is kinda fun while you're waiting out the tide or calm. Won't be a fast trip, but doesn't sound like that's your point anyway.

Carry a decent VHF and radar reflector and listen for, and talk to, the commercial traffic. They'll help you work it out and avoid misunderstandings or "I didn't see you".


----------



## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

Not a lot of experience here, but I did do one overnight delivery in that area...

Assuming you work out getting towed out and in...

You've got to have competent crew - at least one.
One thing nobody has mentioned is powering your nav & anchor lights and bilge pumps. Are you sure your batteries are up to it? (How do you recharge them?) 

Do you have a manual bilge pump, and does it work? (If it's built in, try to borrow a portable for the trip.

It's awfully dark at night and the barges can't move quickly (if at all) to avoid you. You'd be best off anchoring at night.
Do you have a radar reflector? VHF? Required minimum safety equipment? 
Close as many of your seacocks as you can. You probably only need the one to flush the head. (I'm assuming you didn't get a survey, so you don't really have good idea of the condition of the boat.)

Good luck!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

jrd22 said:


> Congrats on your new boat by the way. You know if you have the experience to sail this new boat of yours to it's new home. If you aren't too worried about it, go for it. You do have good ground tackle don't you? *It's not like you're talking about a circumnavigation here*, you just need to sail 80 NM or so. It wasn't that long ago that sailboats didn't have engines, I don't think you are going to die attempting this. Do some homework, plan for the unexpected and watch the weather. Make sure your VHF and cell phone work, and take enough groceries and water for twice as long as you figure it will take.
> Report back here after your successful sail.


+1 jrd.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

ottos said:


> Not a lot of experience here, but I did do one overnight delivery in that area...
> 
> Assuming you work out getting towed out and in...
> 
> ...


All the nav lights work, bilge pump works, again I will work out al the kinks before I get underway, no reason to rush and be unprepared. does have a manual pump, wasnt enough water in the bilge to see if it worked that day. Have 2 portable manuals from last boat, and charging battery is something I am going to have to figure out. All the safety equipment, NEED a radar reflector for this one for sure. Hand held and regular vhf. I spent about 6 hours tapping on the hull, deck, around chain plates, bowsprit, masts, steps, EVERYTHING, as well as moisture testing EVERYTHING. Up and down sticks, in wet suit and in the water. I know what goes bad on boats, and where weak spots are, I did as thorough a survey as any professional would do probably better.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

PanchoVilla said:


> Will somebody please move this thread to the motorboat forum?
> 
> It just amazes me that so few of you armchair salts seems to believe it possible to actually use a sailboat for it's intended purpose, which, last I checked, is to move across water using sails and wind.
> 
> ...


Generally, I understand what you're saying about "real sailing" - but I'm definitely not that much of purist. Maybe it depends on where one sails.

I've sailed my C27 into the slip only once...when the wind was just right. I've tried it a couple more times when the wind wasn't just right (e.g. - right on our nose) and abandoned that pretty early. We have a bottleneck just before our dock of about 18 feet - so it can get hairy. I'm just not that good.

We've also been caught in a couple of squalls where I was really happy to have that little 4hp Suzuki. I definitely use it as sparingly as possible because I like sailing - not motoring. But, I like having a motor...when I need it. Maybe I can make those times less and less as I keep sailing.

(PS - Welcome to SN dude.)


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Oh ferpetesake, since when is it "whacking" on somebody to answer a question? I know you like to be defender of all newbies and the self-appointed Sailnet Welcome Wagon, Smack, so you NEED me. You can't be Good Cop unless there is a Bad Cop. So, I'll be the big ol' meany who, you know, makes this dreamer actually think about what he is proposing,, and maybe, oh I don't know, provide some more real information defending why he CAN and SHOULD do this...
> of which he has done precious little, but he, and you, apparently, are all butthurt about how mean and negative I am by not simply patting him on the back and waving goodbye as he slowly leaves the dock.


Okay, whatever...

You may not like how I deal with newbs - but that's nothing new. There's a long line of dudes that seem to be, how did you put it, "all butthurt" on that score for some reason. Bottom line is I don't really care...which should be obvious by now.

Don't pat anyone on the back. Give your advice if you feel compelled. But don't go all "Mean Girls" if someone doesn't lick your boots for it. It's a pretty simple equation really.

If you want to discuss it more, you know where you can find me...having a D&S in FC.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Getting towed in out and in by commercial outfits is going to cost.

Get a dink with a 6 hp or better and lash it alongside. about midships and you are good to go. In calm conditions there will be sufficient power to go ahead or astern. Just DO NOT RELY ON IT TO STOP YOU cos it won't. Turn the boat around in the marina using ropes if need be so you have an easy exit.

Like everybody else says you need crew, at least one other with some sailing experience.

Your scary bits are going to be getting out of the marina and in at the far end. WAIT FOR GOOD CONDITIONS. Early morning [ dawn ] is often calm or near calm move with the dink then. Anchor and wait for the wind.

You are going to be out in the Chesapeake at night, it's a while since I was there but I am not sure I would want to sail at night cos there were crab pots everywhere. If you are going to anchor where commercial traffic might hit you I would want one of these million candlepower handlamps to wave at people.

I would plan for 3 days [ food water etc ] expect to take two and have a practice hoist of your sails while moored up in the marina just to be sure there are no hitches. Also practice getting the dink lashed alongside and back into towing mode.

Extra stuff I might want.

Suitcase petrol generator for power just in case.

Towboat number on speed dial just in case.

Oh yes something to toast the moment when you tie up at the other end and wonder what all the worry was about.

Go do it and join the likes of Lynn and Larry Pardey, Joshua Slocum, Donald Street et al who voyaged without engines.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> You may not like how I deal with newbs ...
> 
> Don't pat anyone on the back. Give your advice if you feel compelled. But don't go all "Mean Girls" if someone doesn't lick your boots for it. It's a pretty simple equation really.
> 
> If you want to discuss it more, you know where you can find me...having a D&S in FC.


Who said I didn't like it?

The only person here with a dislike seems to be you, Smack. I appreciate letting me know how you really feel.

OP asked for opinions. I offered mine, even including a smiley. OP didn't like it. I defended my opinion. OP still didn't like it. Oh well.
I'm not quite sure how you got all this angst out of the advice I offered, but I don't think I have ever expected anyone to, in your words, "lick my boots" for it. I'm a big boy willing to take my lumps if people disagree with me.

As a father of two occasionally wayward adventurous teens, I hope like hell that somebody is willing to give my kids brutal advice that makes them have to defend their ideas- defense requires thought, thought requires examination, examination leads to improvement of planning. Planning leads to increased success.

"Go for it!" on the other hand leads to... the greater chance of another thread on here where we all armchair a linked news article of another boat sunk, missing or run aground.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxanddreams, I'll send you PM tonight or tomorrow, got to run right now.
I think I can help you with sailing. I also have many items of necessary portable equipments - lights, solar, PLB, VHF,GPS plotter, etc.


----------



## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

1- get liability & tow insurance 

2- get good motor 4 tender

3- get 2 additional crew

4- get 4 day good weather window

Get it done and good luck.


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'll point out that CrazyRu sailed his Freedom cat/ketch up from somewhere like Houston to New York solo. There was a thread/log he kept on that trip. Where did it go? It was an interesting read that spanned about a year or so.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising-liveaboard-forum/41316-houston-tx-oriental-nc-how.html
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising-liveaboard-forum/48274-nc-nyc-time-go.html
He would be a great resource to help you with this trip.

On the Chessy the one thing that would worry me would be running aground without an engine. Even the southern Chesapeake can be very shallow even a mile from land (I'm thinking Stingray Point here). Of course there are other ways of getting unstuck besides using the engine (back winding sails, kedging with anchor(s), heeling the boat over etc.) and you and your crew should be ready to employ all of the above when you find the bottom.
Anyway, good luck, have fun and be safe.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Depending on where and when you plan to do this, I might be interested. But even if it did not work out for me to make the trip with you, you can tie up at my dock just north of Annapolis, which should just slightly more than half way. 

When I was 23 I restored a wooden folkboat and sailed her around without an engine. You sound a little like me at the time except I had been sailing for a dozen years by that point. 

PM me if you are interested. 

Jeff


----------



## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Do your Last Will and Testament soonest. Get that insurance. 

Have fun!!!


----------



## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

Crux
Get an outboard for your dinghy that is basically capable of aiding the movement in your boat.
Pick up either a few panels to recharge your batterys or a small cheap genset.
make sure you have the right charts and pre plan the trip and have it written out in a proper sail plan.
make sure you have atleast two others on board with sailing experience. Im not saying they need to have decades but are comfy with the plan and are capable of executing the contigencies to prevent injury.
no booze during the trip period, break it open at the end dock when she's tied up.
make sure you have two people at the dock waiting for you to come in so they will aid you.
pack double the water and food needed incase of a few blows days.
double check nav lights and vhf's plotter.

once you have the sail plan, the crew, the destination hands and dink with motor and secondary onboard power are you ready to do this.

to attempt this with out the above minimums is just silly. A good captn knows the requirements and the responsibility of ANY injury to your crew another boat is totally on you.
fwiw
Bill


----------



## PanchoVilla (Mar 18, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Generally, I understand what you're saying about "real sailing" - but I'm definitely not that much of purist. Maybe it depends on where one sails.
> 
> (PS - Welcome to SN dude.)


Thanks brah. Glad to be here. I'm not that much of a purist either. I just wanted to point out that the question, at bottom, is about sailing. Therefore a sailboat should be sufficient for the job.

Yes, it's easier with a motor. Probably safer too, though that's just one variable in the whole equation. There are a lot of ways to screw this trip up, and a motor won't save you from all of them. Thinking that it will can get you into more trouble than not having one. So as always, having a good crew, good plans and not being in too much of a hurry is the ticket.

A small outboard is probably a good idea, and not too hard to beg, borrow or even buy (though maybe hard to mount, as Crux noted). And despite all my adventure cheerleading, I wouldn't sail at night. Drop the hook, stay rested, and have good visibility. You're going to have to thread between a lot of shallow water and the shipping channel, so plan your route carefully and always have a fallback option for when the wind shifts, or dies, or a squall blows up.


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Left atlantic city early morning last may (2010) heading north,started calm, engine failed about an hour out. fiddled w/ it a little as I sailed on. weather picked up 10-15knts. 4-7ft. 7-10 sec int. 
Couldn't correct engine issue underway (clogged pick-up in tank) continued to sail north. weather increasing,15-20 kints. 7-10 steady 15-20 w/ 30knt. gusts, continued north.
Resigned to the fact the engine was out of service. weather now 10-15ft 25-30 knts. gusts to 40,small craft advisory etc. pretty exciting. Decided to enter Barnaget Light ,NJ. inlet. (no engine,blowing like hell.) weather from south small craft advisory,10-15 ft. waves.etc.
Overshot sea bouy, had to tac back south,made it inside the breakwalls to the lighthouse and had to turn around three times to sail into the anchorage as the wind shifted and eased intermitedly. dropped anchor once to await favorable gust, made it in and anchored in time to watch sunset and enjoy walk on beach.
After that experience I'm not as concerned about the engine as a means of propulsion. the sails work fine.just need to pay attention and plan ahead a bit when navigating.
incidently , my 6yr. old Daughter was aboard and as we entered the inlet past the breakers,she popped her head up into the cockpit , commented that the weather wasn't all that bad and informed us she was ready for a snack.

I don't think you'll have a problem getting a few miles up the chesapeake.


----------



## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

PanchoVilla and joethecobbler said it as it is. You have a sailboat, you know how to sail, plan it and sail her. Yeah it might be a little harder to dock or moor her but it has been done 10 thousands of times B-4. Crux stop listening, to the advise good or bad, plan right, have a dinghy, you got nav. aides, make sure you have enough rum and provisions for all 4 of you on board and do a Nike GO FOR IT. You got a great woodie, save it, fix it up enjoy it and your 80 mile sail will make you a better sailor.
As for the negative advise you get from our northern friend, he is just in a down mood and jealous that you have a larger boat are younger and can sail it now, because we up "north" here still have to wait another 45 days B-4 we can sail again.
Have a great trip and let us know how she fared.


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

A lot of funny replies and a lot of good replies. I delivered about ~ 80 miles with no engine once by acident (engine failure). I never considered abandoning the trip. I've made many trips without GPS (including a Delmarva trip), but I wouldn't consider myself a novice.

Sure, not so long ago all boats were without engines. There were some compromises:
* Time. They waited on weather and tide, and that was very expensive for commerce. This trip may take longer than expected.
* Labor. They sailed with larger crews. This could be done solo, sure, but the skipper will need to be solid on sailing with no engine. Two is more rational. For example, with the right wind direection I would sail out of my marina, but I would not do it alone. Two would be fine.
* Caution. Skippers knew their limitations. If the wind was foul, they would anchor out and wait, or apply some other stratagy.
* Accidents. More boats were lost. Many unrelated factors, of course, not the least of which is modern weather forecasting.
* In-harbor manuvering. It was not uncommon to tow a boat with a dingy (long boat) and oars; however, I'm sure many of us have either the crew or the experince to try that.
* Anchor-out. Don't try to land in the marina. Anchor in the basin, if there is room. Even if you don't have a powered dingy, the marine services company that will help with the engine probably can help move it in the marina. This is a Very common problem, as they commonly have to fetch dead boats from nearby marinas. Very likely no-charge.

Staying out the ship channel is just obvious, I hope. Back in the day, no one had engines--less of a problem.

In other words, a reasonable trip for an old-salt (who could be young) that understands the limitations impossed.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

EJO said:


> As for the negative advise you get from our northern friend, he is just in a down mood and jealous that you have a larger boat are younger and can sail it now, because we up "north" here still have to wait another 45 days B-4 we can sail again.
> Have a great trip and let us know how she fared.


Um, no to all of the above. Not down, not jealous, not negative, and my boats go in the water April 15th.

Before this myth grows any larger, can any of you jumping on the "bash bljones" bandwagon please show me where my advice was incorrect? Because if it is not incorrect, then it can't be negative, and just because somebody gets advice they don't want to hear doesn't make it bad advice.


----------



## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

Don't worry about what others say, stick to your guns. 

Your gun: "Don't do it, there's a 30% chance it'll go wrong"

Their gun: "Do it, there's only a 30% chance it'll go wrong"

Both guns are right.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks a million everyone, I really appreciate your 2 cents, and feel pretty confident about this move. Just find the right crew and get my girl to her new home. I have a small panel to hit the battery with, and the outboard from little fatty is soon to come! Last night I was starting to think posting on this site was a mistake, but now I am happy with the results I have had! One of the reasons I like sailing soo much is the great community of people that are willing to help one another! Keep your fingers crossed, and I will most definitely let you all know how it goes, success or not!


----------



## GMC (Sep 14, 2009)

*Please let us know.*

I am always disappointed that we don't hear enough of the adventures after they are completed. Please let us know how the trip went. The ups, the downs. Sounds like a fun trip.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Columns - Beware the Guru


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*Blj, Lbj, Jbl ...*

You caustic curmudgeon of recalcitrance! You nattering Nabob of negativity! You, you...
I say 'Ban BLJones' from SN! 
Seriously though, I've been enjoying your blog.
As you were.



bljones said:


> Um, no to all of the above. Not down, not jealous, not negative, and my boats go in the water April 15th.
> 
> Before this myth grows any larger, can any of you jumping on the "bash bljones" bandwagon please show me where my advice was incorrect? Because if it is not incorrect, then it can't be negative, and just because somebody gets advice they don't want to hear doesn't make it bad advice.


----------



## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Having sailed a bit with a crappy engine I didn't trust (in much more protected waters, but still some tight spots), I'll throw in.

1) If this were an 80 nm trip in my waters, I'd say you could probably do it. I don't know what your waters are like, so I'll leave that up to you.

2) People are suggesting you throw an outboard on your dinghy and tow yourself around. Have you tried this before? I have been towed a couple of times, and it wasn't exactly straightforward. Big heavy-displacement boats tend to go where they want, and don't care much about what your dinghy's outboard has to say. Unless you have time to practice this, I would not count on it doing it, as you will find that the time it takes you to figure out how to set it up, set it up, change your mind about the set up, set it up again, climb in the dinghy, realize your dinghy's outboard won't start, figure out why, fix it, start it, start towing.... see where I'm going?

3) Ground tackle was mentioned, but I think not often enough, and when you have no motor, is your best and only friend. Forget crazy rowing/sculling/towing schemes that have never been set up or tested by you. Get a big heavy anchor that sets well and fast under nothing but the force of the wind on the sails. I'm serious on heavy; you're 21, you can handle an oversized anchor. Sets well and fast is key. Forget the danforth fluke-types; they can be good but you need a powerful motor to set them. I have set my Bruce under sail a dozen times or so, but they need to be even bigger. Your best bet is a next-gen anchor, the biggest you can carry from WM to your boat.

4) Other than that, I'll reiterate what others have said, but with a different recommendation. You are not familiar with this boat, so you cannot rely on its systems beyond the fundamentals of hull, rig, and ground tackle. Make sure they are stellar. Bring systems of your own that don't require setup and are not dependent on boat systems. I'm not crazy about your solar panel + boat's battery + GPS plan. The wiring could be bad, the battery could be bad, you could set it up wrong. A hand-held GPS with plenty of extra batteries (you will use up one set of batteries in a day and a half or so) is a better bet. For all the other boat systems, plan similarly to have your own redundant replacements, like fresh water in jugs in case your water tank is moldy, an oil lamp in case the wiring is bad or bulbs are blown, etc.

5) Not sure how long you plan to take on this trip. 80 nm alone for me in my waters would take two long slogs. If you can arrange it in terms of safe anchorages, plan for three shorter days and allot yourself more time for when things inevitably go wrong and you spend a day or two anchored.

6) People have warned that towing is expensive. Three short tows like the one I had recently = one outboard.

Final word is that self-reliance is a bit of a misnomer. You need to rely on more than just yourself---you need to rely on your boat as well. My money is on the following outcome: you will do this trip, it will be hairy in some places, but you will come away smiling and with some good stories to share. But also, your naive confidence in your boat will have been tarnished; you just don't know right now how many little things can go wrong and cause serious delays on this new-to-you boat. The more prep you can do, the more you will mitigate that outcome.

Fair winds!


----------



## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

yeah but a hip tow from the dinghy is pretty controllable once you get up enough speed for steerage with your rudder. then, of course, you have to run around to change throttle--or, have a crew in the dinghy. Have tried--works okay.


----------



## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm not saying it won't work. There's nothing wrong with tows, batteries, etc. I'm just recommending against relying on untried schemes and systems.

If the OP wants to tow his own boat, he needs to devise a towing system, set it up, practice it, and work out the bugs. Ditto with any other system he wants to rely on. In a situation like this, with a new boat, that will take a long time... so my point is to encourage relying on only the most reliable parts of the system.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

nolatom said:


> yeah but a hip tow from the dinghy is pretty controllable once you get up enough speed for steerage with your rudder. then, of course, you have to run around to change throttle--or, have a crew in the dinghy. Have tried--works okay.


This does work, and beats the daylights out of trying to "tow" a sailboat with an outboard powered dinghy/runabout. In fact if you must 'tow', try tying the bow to the tow and run the dinghy backwards - way more control but necessarily slow - not a distance tactic.

We did get our 40 footer home - a 40 nm tirip - with our inflatable with a 5 hp kicker strapped to the quarter - wasn't quick (3 knots in flat water) but we sailed when we could and putted along otherwise.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Something I failed to ask was what kind of motor is in the boat, and why doesn't it run?

Gary


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm also curious about the engine. Diesel or A4?

Hip tows work fine with the correct lines attached (spring or diagonals work best).

Danforth type anchor is usually fine for the sandy/muddy bottom of the Chessy. I doubt it is as useful in the PNW with kelp beds and rocky bottoms.


----------



## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

We've got plenty of mud harbors. But this isn't an anchoring thread... my main concern is that the systems the OP use be reliable and effective with little extra effort (and with no motor to properly set an anchor).


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> Something I failed to ask was what kind of motor is in the boat, and why doesn't it run?
> 
> Gary


She has a volvo md11 Previous owner really didn't know much about the boat, said something about water getting in the fuel and over heating, which the water in fuel isn't a huge deal, but idk about the over heating. He had paper work with mechanics mentioning pulling heads apart and gaskets, but I really have no idea. Would be nice to know exactly whats up with the motor, but I know nothing about diesels. am excited to learn about it, but I need the boat closer to asses all her issues. Id just as soon change her out, pretty sure it was the original, and the boat had been threw like 5 owners before me. Id say its probably about time.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

AdamLein said:


> Having sailed a bit with a crappy engine I didn't trust (in much more protected waters, but still some tight spots), I'll throw in.
> 
> 1) If this were an 80 nm trip in my waters, I'd say you could probably do it. I don't know what your waters are like, so I'll leave that up to you.
> 
> ...


I have hiptowed a sailboat before, but not with my little fatty knees. It was with a 11' whaler towing the bohemith cement double keeled 42' cutter. My stupid friend "at that time" needed his boat moved to Miami from the stuart florida area. he had attempted to make this boat powered by two electric motors, which would move the boat about 1 knot for about 30min before running out of juice. Anyway we hiptowed this giant hunk of rock out the inlet with A$$ holes with motor boats throwing 3-6foot wakes our way every 20 seconds. Nearly put the dinghy through the hull ha. non the less it worked, kinda. I know how to do it. About ground tackle I have 3 large danforths, 1 HUGE danforth type, a Large bruce, and a slightly smaller one. deff have the large bruce ready to go, with a large dany on the side, as well as on in the stern.


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*Md11*

If you want to learn more about diesel engines you should really buy Nigel Caulder's "Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual", Amazon.com: Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems (9780071432382): Nigel Calder: Books
It may seem like an expensive book but it will pay for itself many times if you don't always have to call a mechanic (some charge $80+/hour). 
I am sure that there are some owners who are happy with their Volvo diesel engines but I gather that they can be very difficult to get parts for (read = expensive and shipped from Sweden) when compared to a Universal/Kubota, Yanmar, Perkins etc. 
Water in the diesel fuel is not the end of the world. Engines in general just have a hard time burning water so the fuel would need to be removed, filtered and perhaps even discarded or put into someones home heating system. Diesels are compression engines and thus have no spark plugs to ignite the fuel. Instead they compress the aerated fuel such that it explodes on its own. Some diesels have something called 'glow plugs' which warm the combustion chamber to help get the compression ignition started - some do not. 
Overheating a diesel is not the end of the world either. It could be as simple as the water pump impeller needing to be replaced or a heat exchanger (HX) needing to be removed, cleaned out and replaced.
Leaving old lubricating oil in engines is also not good for them. Rotella T 30W oil is rated for both diesel and gasoline engines and would be a good choice if you wanted to change the engine oil - the old oil will probably look pitch black.
I can't say if it is worth you pursuing your MD11 but I will suggest that you might be able to get it back to minimally working order for a lot less then a new or even used diesel might cost ($6K +). Some photos of your engine and it's systems would help elicit more comments from this diverse group of sailnutters. Do you know anyone who took Auto Shop in high school or technical school that could help you with some of the basics? 
You should consider yourself honored that both CrazyRu and Jeff_H have seemingly offered to join you for the 'delivery' to the Annapolis/Baltimore area. Both of these sailors have considerable mileage under their keels and either would be a huge asset. What I'm not sure of is what port the boat has to be moved from: Norfolk, Deltaville...? 
Sorry to hear its a Volvo engine. Kubota/Universal parts may be the cheapest and widely available in the US. Beta Marine offers a modified Kubota engine for marine use where most parts can be purchased at a tractor supply place: Beta Marine US Ltd. Distributors for Kubota based marine diesel engines and generators for sailboats, yachts and trawler boats.
Their prices for brand new engines is pretty good too (+ delivery, + installation, + (you see where this is going)). I know of a fair, honest and good mechanic who mostly works around the Annapolis area (William Sibley) if you want a decent mechanic to look at it. Take photos of engine and post them here first.



Cruxandreams said:


> She has a volvo md11 Previous owner really didn't know much about the boat, said something about water getting in the fuel and over heating, which the water in fuel isn't a huge deal, but idk about the over heating. He had paper work with mechanics mentioning pulling heads apart and gaskets, but I really have no idea. Would be nice to know exactly whats up with the motor, but I know nothing about diesels. am excited to learn about it, but I need the boat closer to asses all her issues. Id just as soon change her out, pretty sure it was the original, and the boat had been threw like 5 owners before me. Id say its probably about time.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Let me get this straight.... you are planning on taking an uninsured....unregistered boat which you have never been for a sea trial in on an 80 mile journey. Is that correct?

Lets try this analogy.....someone buys a used car in Washington DC, from a private owner. Kicks the tires.,,,Windows leak,,,Never looked at by a mechanic...engine runs intermittantly and misses...has no map but has a GPS...cell phone questionable battery power... so will drive at night witgh minimal lights...and a friend who has driven cars all his life helping him. Decides not to buy insurance or register the car. Drives to Baltimore on the Capitol beltway (495) and I95 North in the truck lane limping along tacking across the road hoping the car makes it up and down the hills. Destination is a parking lot in Baltimore, but you are going to cut the engine off at the top of the hill in sight of the parking lot and coast in and park in a valet lot with other expensive cars in a parking spot you have never been in or seen before without hitting anyone. Not a great anaolgy I know, but drive without insurance?



> I did as thorough a survey as any professional would do probably better.


 Give me a break

Also you never had her surveyed and your experience which determines this sailboats seaworthiness and its condition is what? Have you ever seen this boat below the waterline yet? Is it on stands or in the water?
While others muse about their misgivings about your ability to even sail this vessel, which I am sure you will be able to do, as you have good people willing to help you like Jeff H which has a bredth of experience, I have to ask you what gives you the right to break the law and operate this vessel in the first place without appropriate documentation.

Yes you can sail 80 miles easily in 2-3 days and stay out of the shipping lanes. Yes you can manage to keep from running aground and hopefully not spring a leak or have an emergency which requires the CG or marine police to use taxpayers money to help you. Yes you can do this adventure. But should you? Anyone who steps foot on this boat without insurance is taking a risk. Anyone who operates this vessels without proper registrationAND INSURANCE is doing so illegally. Please keep it away from my marina/ club because you seem to have a disregard for my boat and others by not purchasing and insuring your vessel and mine from damage or even the environment from a potential spill of fluids into the Bay.

While I congradulate you on your purchase, and beleive that with hard work you can make her into a seaworthy vessel, do it the correct way. work on it where she lies until you have it properly documented or have it towed to Baltimore. Make your dream a reality by doing this the legal, safe, and correct way.

Dave


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

Well first i will say that i also offered to go along for the trip in a PM on page one. I do know the bay pretty well, and will bring a chart book and other items. and last but not least i would walk away when i see the boat if i dont think it would be a safe trip, either boat or weather.

Dave as for the registered part you know he has 30 days in maryland. as for the Ins part i would bet less than 50 % of the boats you see on the bay have ins.

Hell Jeff, crazu ru, myself and the boat owner, that would be a hell of a trip. with jeff trying to edit our words, ru and i would bring a grill and pull an CD on jeff.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Scotty,

Have a safe trip....if you get hurt on his boat.....you are on your own as he has no insurance to cover you at all.

I do not beleive that 1/2 the boats on the Bay have no insurance and if I came across one which did not...I would be the first to call the proper agency.


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

Dave not trying to argue at all, i did not know Ins was a requirement, i know marinas want it but who else?


----------



## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Insurance... motors... whatever.

Just sail the f-ing thing home and don't look back.


----------



## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as insurance, personally "I" require it. Our society is far too litigious and nobody will ever accept responsibility for their own actions....they want to point the finger and sue anyone in order to blame them and avoid blaming themselves. I can't afford an expensive lawsuit, or the monetary compensation required by my own (or my vessel's) failings.

Liability insurance at the very least. For me.


----------



## LakeSuperiorGeezer (Oct 8, 2010)

*Insurance*



JoeDiver said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as insurance, personally "I" require it. Our society is far too litigious and nobody will ever accept responsibility for their own actions....they want to point the finger and sue anyone in order to blame them and avoid blaming themselves. I can't afford an expensive lawsuit, or the monetary compensation required by my own (or my vessel's) failings.
> 
> Liability insurance at the very least. For me.


Yesterday I was talking with my brother, the transmission mechanic, about this issue. He is in Virginia and there the courts side with the customer so when someone brings in a transmission rather than bring in the whole car, he will not work on the transmission. He is dependent on the customer's knowledge and intelligence to get the transmission back in the car correctly. If not then he gets blamed in court for the problem. There are also more serious liability issues if there is an accident because of improper installation.


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

It was suggest early on that you get SeaTow or BoatUS towing insurance and then call them to make your tow. Don't try to cheat these outfits. They may make a few calls regarding a boat just signed onto the plan that immediately needs a long tow. You might find yourself in court or faced with a tow bill at non-insured rates. Besides, it's not the right thing to do.

Using your dinghy tied along side to maneuver your boat: It's my understanding that it gets choppy and a bit rough at times in the Chesapeke. With a small dinghy tied along side in a serious chop there is a good chance that your going to beat the sides of the two boats pretty badly, and possibly swamp the dinghy. An inflatable, in my opinion, would be better for this application.

Since you are new to the boat, why don't you do a few day sails with the boat to get to know it a bit before you try your trip. And try to make one of those days one where the wind and waves are kicking up a bit. 

It is a sailboat and if there aren't unknown critical problems, the boat should be able to make the trip fine, but in the middle of the bay in that storm that came up unexpectedly is not time to discover these problems.


----------



## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

if i was in that area i would go on this trip after checking out the boat & equipment. 80 nm? its not that long a trip with at least 3 crew. i enjoy that type of a challenge .


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Can't believe the amount of negativity on offer here! If I was closer I would also like to do this trip, it would be fun. Its the Chesapeake not the Anegada passage.

I suppose in light of some of the comments you might want to carry and be prepared to fly the D flag.


From Hoot Mon


----------



## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

Hey, Crux!

Someone posted a few pages back that the owner of White Rocks is a bit moody. He's not lying, but don't let that turn you off. I kept a boat there for a few years and ended up liking the guy. He bought the marina in disrepair and fought to have all of the deadbeats kicked out. I think he still has to deal with some difficult people, so he can come off rude at first. If you're cool, he'll warm up to you and you generally don't need to deal with him anyway except when it's time to re-new or when you're buying something in the shop. If you need to work on your boat yourself and you don't want to spend a lot for dry storage, it's a great place, but quirky (you may have to hunt around for a power outlet that works, etc.).

Good luck on your engineless trip! This is a good time of year to do it. You'll have fewer powerboats interfering as you navigate the tight spots.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> Let me get this straight.... you are planning on taking an uninsured....unregistered boat which you have never been for a sea trial in on an 80 mile journey. Is that correct?
> 
> Lets try this analogy.....someone buys a used car in Washington DC, from a private owner. Kicks the tires.,,,Windows leak,,,Never looked at by a mechanic...engine runs intermittantly and misses...has no map but has a GPS...cell phone questionable battery power... so will drive at night witgh minimal lights...and a friend who has driven cars all his life helping him. Decides not to buy insurance or register the car. Drives to Baltimore on the Capitol beltway (495) and I95 North in the truck lane limping along tacking across the road hoping the car makes it up and down the hills. Destination is a parking lot in Baltimore, but you are going to cut the engine off at the top of the hill in sight of the parking lot and coast in and park in a valet lot with other expensive cars in a parking spot you have never been in or seen before without hitting anyone. Not a great anaolgy I know, but drive without insurance?
> 
> ...


trying to figure out where you got your information, I mentioned I will have insurance before I set of on the trip. The vessle is documented to travel the world, and Of course I will have a reg sticker on her bow i'm not a total goof. As well as I mentioned I Checked the hull. Buy thanks for the reminders.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I think it's pretty cool that crux has gotten 3 direct offers of help to do this. I smell a challenge as captbill said above.

Crux, I also agree with some of the dudes above on the insurance. You should at least swing for liability coverage. Call BoatUS and see what they can do.

[Edit: looks like you've already got insurance. Whew. I thought you were a total goof. Heh-heh.]


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

slow vessel that I have never sailed.

I am a novice sailor

What could happen when you have no experience 










For what ever reason it seems to be hard to follow my simple suggestion of spending 20 dollars at home depot for a 2 X 8 and some bolts to make a cheep sturdy outboard mount that would allow the boat to be moved with ease and safety

And i was in the same boat with no way to get insurance and i reached deal with the owner to not transfer ownership until the boat had reached the marina and been hauled and blocked in the safety of my driveway

I still don't see how your gonna get insurance ?

As there was no freaking way i was gonna put myself on the hook for the cleanup cost if there was and issue moving the boat


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

tommays said:


> slow vessel that I have never sailed.
> 
> I am a novice sailor
> 
> What could happen when you have no experience


Tom, I think I see where your problem was on that trip. If you turn the motor 90 degrees CW, you'll move forward instead of in circles.

It must have taken forever to get to your destination. And I bet you were dizzy as hell!


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

10 pages. 80 NM trip. Hmmmm.


----------



## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

When I bought my boat I sailed her in late November no Ins or registration. I have also driven cars with no tags or Ins. Do what you want just be ready to pay the piper if you get in trouble and you can have my tax dollars anytime. I also have a 6hp merc. If you need a hand. Also towed a car on the beltway.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

tommays said:


> slow vessel that I have never sailed.
> 
> I am a novice sailor
> 
> ...


I have plenty of materials to devise a bracket of some sort, but check out the cheoy lee 33 cutter, the stern is kinda a steep inward slope, not sure how that would work out for a bracket. Also yea the owner I got her from mentioned the insurance is with his home owners, and her wasn't going to take it off for a while. I would like to get my own, not sure if the motor issue has anything to do with liability??? Still looking into allllll the questions!!


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

I just spoke with a friend. He bought a fixer upper he is working on right now. He got liability and towing insurance from Progressive. With out survey. Just filled up a form on website.

Boats/PWC We Insure - Sailboat - Progressive PWC Insurance Official Site


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

lapworth said:


> When I bought my boat I sailed her in late November no Ins or registration. I have also driven cars with no tags or Ins. Do what you want just be ready to pay the piper if you get in trouble and you can have my tax dollars anytime. I also have a 6hp merc. If you need a hand. Also towed a car on the beltway.


lol hopefully I wont be totally wingin it, I would like to at least be covered by insurance of some sort, for other boats sake, Im not worried about my boat, if she sinks, I'll dive down stuff 4-5 inertubes in her and blow em up with a compressor until she surfaces then get to bailing! But the 6 you mentioned may come in handy!


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Cruxandreams said:


> I have plenty of materials to devise a bracket of some sort, but check out the cheoy lee 33 cutter, the stern is kinda a steep inward slope, not sure how that would work out for a bracket.


There is a way to hang a motor from a side. 
Temporary bracket is very easy to fabricate. Here is an illustration
Re-powering Jean-du-Sud








:


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Thats great to hear you have insurance... and that it is registered

Good luck on your adventure then...do it soon howvere poeple will be out on the water soon. Give yourself some bail out anchorages in case you do not want to go straight through.

Dave


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Been sailing for 35+ years, no insurance. sailed a few, sank a few, wrecked one. It all works out. 
boat us won't offer a policy unless you subject yourself to one of their approved surveyors I can assure you after you hand over $10-20 a foot for the survey of your wooden boat it will not meet the minimum requirements for hull insurance from boat us, also it will require being hauled for the survey.
Progresive will insure it (liability only) without a haul out or survey. Their rates are about twice of Boat US. and others .
The tow companies are a half decent service for about $150 you get more than just towing. boat us includes/offers cleanup and spill services included in their tow package. I did subscribe to it for a year the first time I made a long coatal passage at the urging of other "sailors", but have not since.
what's more if you are aground the likelyhood is you'll be able to free yourself w/ a bit of effort and patience as well as a tow-boat vessel could free you. and if your hard aground a tow vessel won't be able to help you anyhow. If the weather is inclimate or there is a small craft advisory or storm the tow company likely won't be willing or able to assist you due to the conditions anyhow. 
As far as the marinas requiring insurance, I've determined that the patrons and management of the locations that required it often only enforced the policy as a means to deny dockage to people or craft that they didn't want around for whatever reason. If they liked you then they never asked, if they didn't they asked up front.
Insurance, like a helmet on a motorcycle, is nothing more than a false sense of security. As far as being sued and the costs , that only applies to people who have a considerable amount of wealth or income to pursue financially.
based on what the OP has indicated, I doubt any attorney would be willing to pursue a lawsuit that there would be little chance of any cash recovery.
If the OP was wealthy or posessed a considerable amount to interest an atty. to sue, then he/she probably would have insurance to protect those assets.
Basicly, I'm saying insurance is only for those with considerable wealth. Poor folks need not concern themselves with the issues of litigation as they have nothing or very little to loose, barring any criminal challenges, which is not the case here.
I wasted a few years of my life listening to dockside/armchair advice of all the reasons I could not do this or that. fortunately I put that behind me and made my own way, had I listened to all the advice I would never had the years of incredible experiences and never have seen the wonderful places and experienced all the excitement that I have, nor would I have known and done for myself and my family all the wonderful things we got to do !


live the dash, you only get one.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" As far as being sued and the costs , that only applies to people who have a considerable amount of wealth or income to pursue financially."
Unless you are judgement-proof, liability should be a concern. A judgement against you can start by ordering the seizure and sale of your assets (boat, car, house, bank accounts, even some retirement accounts, depending on where you are) and then go one to attach 10% of all your earnings for the next ten years, renewed for a total of 20 years. Got a tax refund coming? Yup, that goes right away. For 20 years.
But if you're stone broke, or a judgement-proof weasel, you've got nothing to worry about. Except maybe the investigation into your assets and income, and anything that turns up, like failure to report income.


----------



## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Well said,

That's why scumbags don't have car liability insurance.

Dabnis


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

laws vary from state to state, in florida for example, if you earn less than $500 a week and claim head of household you cannot have your wages attached. 
In regards to assets, if you have one vehicleit cannot be seized. If you own your home you cannot be ousted. And after speaking with atty's over the years , They have indicated that if the litigant isn't worth sueing (broke,poor,whatever) most won't take a suite unless the claiment pays up front. 
Essentially I'm saying that yes, you can/may be sued. The actual chance of being sued is proportional to your net worth. 
I've witnessed a number of issues of anchored boats breaking free and damaging other vessels at anchor. Trying to chase down the responsible parties is nearly impossible and that is just the tip of the iceburg.
I'm just not scared enough to endorse insurance for every eventuality, I guess.
After years of cruising/sailing and thousands of miles I've never come close to any issues involving other craft and liability. Apparently this is the niorn not the exception or the insurance premiums would be untenable and the underiters impovershed (?).
This is clearly not the case.
Any reference or attempted comparison to auto insurance of any type is completely incomparable. 
for example, a few states in the US don't require any insurance to operate a motorcycle on public streets, it's just not required ! That doesn't make the motorcyclist a criminal or a "scumbag" . It simply isn't forced upon the operator by the state Gov't.


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

In reference to the "Judgement proof-weasel" reference. 
You may or may not be aware that many successful professionals that are exposed to exceptional liability situations insulate themselves from the threat of financial losses by placing all or most of their assets into trust or have assets owned by a Corporation or LLC. (once again depending on residency/location) . thereby safeguarding their incomes and earnings. Essentially they own nothing ! not the home they live in or the cars they drive, I'm sure the yacht and airplane ownership is/are handled in the same fashion.
So does that make MD's and other professionals "scumbags" or "weasels", maybe in your opinion, but I think they are "judgement-Proof" 

It's a big world out there, and alot of ways to see it.


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Anyone who steps foot on this boat without insurance is taking a risk. *Anyone who operates this vessels without proper registrationAND INSURANCE is doing so illegally. * Please keep it away from my marina/ club because you seem to have a disregard for my boat and others by not purchasing and insuring your vessel and mine from damage or even the environment from a potential spill of fluids into the Bay.


Is operating a vessel without insurance not legal in Maryland? I know a lot of marinas require it, and that makes sense, but I have never heard of any state requiring insurance for a vessel.


----------



## stormsailer1 (Jan 20, 2011)

Agree with all the above about getting "motorized", especially with new-to-you boat and this time of year. I stayed at Young's Boat Yard on Jones Creek, north Old Road Bay, for three years. Very "rustic", but a good working yard and very friendly to DIYs. Might try Old Bay Marina at the top of Old Road Bay as another working yard. It's a crazy "adventure" that I hope you survive. I'm beginning to think there must be something in the air on the East Coast with all these yungins' tryin' to learn to sail for the first time while on a major trip--egads!


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Not required by law in MD Argyle.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

joethecobbler said:


> In reference to the "Judgement proof-weasel" reference.
> You may or may not be aware that many successful professionals that are exposed to exceptional liability situations insulate themselves from the threat of financial losses by placing all or most of their assets into trust or have assets owned by a Corporation or LLC. (once again depending on residency/location) . thereby safeguarding their incomes and earnings. Essentially they own nothing ! not the home they live in or the cars they drive, I'm sure the yacht and airplane ownership is/are handled in the same fashion.
> So does that make MD's and other professionals "scumbags" or "weasels", maybe in your opinion, but I think they are "judgement-Proof"
> 
> It's a big world out there, and alot of ways to see it.


The key word in the above quote is "exceptional." The examples cited above especially MDs, most often do not incorporate to avoid buying insurance, but to cover liability beyond their insurance coverage. I don't think there are many MDs out there who don't carry malpractice insurance, but with the litigious society we live in, often the costs will exceed the insurance.

YOU can justify not carrying insurance any way you want to- but to advocate dodging the requirement to a novice 21 year old with his first self-surveyed boat doesn't do anybody any favours.


----------



## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

The law as a general guide line. So you can put me down for scumbag. I have seen people do more damage to others the legal way then some mister miner.


----------



## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Liability insurance is required in California but many people
run without it. I have personal experience with this issue.
If a person has few or no assets to have taken away, why
should they pay for insurance? Many do not.

Dabnis


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Crux-

I just read through all 11 pages of this mess. I think you are attempting to approach the situation intelligently, and make the most of what you have.

Although you didn't get a survey, you have gone over the boat as throughly as your knowledge allows. (I hope that's good enough) I'm pretty interested in hearing how this turns out and I am trying to figure out ways that I might be able to help.

First, I'm still not hearing of a concrete destination from you. Have you considered this:
Casa Rio Marina

It's closer than White Rocks, is very affordable, and you can haul out and do your own work. The people I spoke to, were very friendly and very accomodating.

Second, if you choose Casa Rio or someplace comparetively close, I may be able to help tow you in for the last little bit.

You've had 11 pages to work on this so far. Where are you in your preps? Exactly what do you still think you need to make the journey? This will help me figure out how else I might be able to help you.


----------



## SailKing1 (Feb 20, 2002)

I had insurance on my I26 through Geico who also has my car and home insurance. They subbed it out to another company for liability at a cost of $212.00 a year. There was no requirements for survey or anything else. It was really quite simple. I tried Boat US and other company's but did not want to jump through the hoops. Mainly it was piece of mind on my part. Never had to use it so I can not attest to the quality but at less than $20.00 a month it served my purpose and if that is not affordable then you probably shouldn't own a boat.


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

I would be interested to get an update on the OP's pogress.


----------



## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

joethecobbler said:


> I would be interested to get an update on the OP's pogress.


http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...ing-let-go-bluechart-micro-sd.html#post711623


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

thanks for the link.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

Alrighty, so we make an attempt this past weekend, but due to north western winds the whole time, we were unable to make it northwest out of the tangier sound through a chain of islands into the main bay. with school rounding the corner this week and reports of gale force winds the entire next day we decided to take her back to the marina, and I will give it another shot within a month. I was happy with how the boat sailed, got a good feel for her, and we had a good time! 5 minutes after we exited the marina into the Tangier Sound a squall hit us pretty hard with gusts up to 35-40 knots. Dropped the Bruce, and rode it out. another squall hit about an hour after the first, and we hooked up for the night. She's not a boat to point high into wind, but with any thing other than north westerns, I am confident I'll make better progress next time. weekend well spent!


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If she's not pointing well, that may be correctable. Adjusting mast rake, sail trim, spreader length, all can be issues there, and of course old blown out sails won't help. Worth looking into, or asking at a local loft if they'd be able to stop by at their convenience to give you some ideas and a quote.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

Any one interested in helping me make the trip this next week I have off all week, and if I see a couple good days in the forecast, I'm going for it. the boat is anchored out just inside the inlet, and ready to go minus the restitching on some parts of my mizzen, or replacement that I need to figure out. I have the sail with me in Baltimore. I attempted to use my speedy sticker sewing awe, and trust me it was not a pretty sight. If any one in the area has a sail sewing machine I would be glad to compensate some how for the help.


----------



## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

I would go with you but I'm not around the corner. Hope you find a crew.
Make sure you take a camera and logbook as we love the hear how everything went.
Get some rum, get some beer, get some food and have a great trip/adventure.
Happy Sailing.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Good luck.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

At least get a couple of rolls of sail tape. You really want that mizzen for balance. She probably won't sail to windward without it, and generally won't handle as well.


----------



## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

WanderingStar said:


> You really want that mizzen for balance. She probably won't sail to windward without it, and generally won't handle as well.


Funny, I've read exactly the opposite, that ketches will usually benefit from main and jib alone on a beat as the mizzen, in the dirty air of the main, will produce more drag than lift; and that the mizzen is really only useful on a reach.

I'm interested in maybe moving up to a ketch one day and so I've always wondered about this.


----------



## wise4 (Oct 26, 2010)

dabnis said:


> Liability insurance is required in California but many people
> run without it. I have personal experience with this issue.
> If a person has few or no assets to have taken away, why
> should they pay for insurance? Many do not.
> ...


So as not to confuse anyone.... AUTO Liability insurance is required in CA...
There are no state requirements for boat insurance of any kind.


----------



## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

wise4 said:


> So as not to confuse anyone.... AUTO Liability insurance is required in CA...
> There are no state requirements for boat insurance of any kind.


Wise,

You are correct, I should have been more specific. However,
in today's "lawsuit happy" environment if you have any assets
some form of boat related liability insurance may help you to keep
them. I pay about $50 per year, rates may vary.

Dabnis


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

dabnis said:


> Wise,
> 
> You are correct, I should have been more specific. However,
> in today's "lawsuit happy" environment if you have any assets
> ...


got liability at a reasonable price.

will sail tape hold a sail together with out stitching?

Im going to put a very ugly stitching to all the weak seams, and try to pick up some sail tape as well.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Not sure about the seams, but I've made permanent repairs to tears using sail tape.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

AdamLein said:


> Funny, I've read exactly the opposite, that ketches will usually benefit from main and jib alone on a beat as the mizzen, in the dirty air of the main, will produce more drag than lift; and that the mizzen is really only useful on a reach.
> 
> I'm interested in maybe moving up to a ketch one day and so I've always wondered about this.


It's possible that some people have had that experience. My ketch won't point up with all sail set forward and none aft.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Sail tape is really incredible, very strong, and I've patched part of the luff on my old main with it three years ago and it's still in place.

I wish I could go with you on this one, but unfortunately, I have a music job on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday, which doesn't give me much time for anything else. I'm hoping to bring my boat home from Rock Hall the following week, and only have two days to move it 45 miles, and that's if the weather cooperates. I have a 3-day slot open during the first week in May, though.

Good Luck,

Gary


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks everyone, looks like Ill be pulling this one off with my one inexperienced friend. Just some one to hold her steady while I do the rest. weather looks good so far. was pretty successful in stitching up my sail, after a couple repairs I got the nack of it. throw some sail tape over them, and I'll be ready to go. Wish me luck!


----------



## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

cruxandreams---- have a good trip. if you keep an eye on the weather you do ok.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Fair winds, kid. Keep us posted.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Weather looks OK from Sunday afternoon for 3 days so go for it.


----------



## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

*move with no motor*

How far did you make it this time, Zach? Are you safe at Baltimore?


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

CR lets hope he did make it, or will soon. we have been having some good storms come thru at night.


----------



## Cruxandreams (Mar 8, 2011)

So the trip was a total success this time, piece of cake! I had 2 crew with me, a friend who I taught the basics to during the trip, and a older woman that lied about knowing how to sail, and was basically helpless. So it was all up to me. Monday afternoon Hip towed her out of Crisfield with the skiff, threw up sail, got dink on board and headed north. Monday night was a hell of a rough bay, long story short I slept about an hour. No line guard on the anchor roller, and the smashing of the bowsprit into on coming waves had me on deck regularly. Tuesday was bobbing around aimlessly in the calm. I made a couple miles in the morning, passed out below for an hour to try to get a little more rested up, when I popped we had no control with no wind, after a couple hours of enjoying the day cooking lunch and relaxing while we sat idle in 100+’. I decided to get the dinghy out and try to pull us over to where we could anchor. Once we were about half way to where I wanted to drop hook, the wind started picking up and we threw up sails and made another couple miles before dark. Wednesday was our best day; good winds all day long had us under the bay bridge at sun down. As soon as we had passed under the bridge our mizzen sail shredded which made it a lot harder to point into the light northwestern that had started up. Must say my repairs to the mizzen had held up quite will the whole trip. We crawled northward the rest of the 7 miles the next day. The trip was a lot of fun, a little tiring since I had to do everything, but still had a good time. With good steady westerns it would have been a 2-day trip, about 95 miles. 
Want to thank you all for helping me prepare for the trip. Now the fun starts, mast down, decks up, new engine in, and all the other little things, cant wait to get started. If any one wants to check up on the progress stop by old bay in a couple months.

Thanks Zach


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Huzzah! Congratulations man! Sorry to hear about your "crew". I'd love to hear that story sometimes.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Nice job Zach.


----------



## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

glad you made it, i will stop by sometime. heck my boat maybe there soon too.


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Congrats on a safe and fun trip


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Well done.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Glad you made it safely, young man. Keep us posted about your progress in getting things ship-shape.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Well done.


Heh-heh.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Job done !


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Patience, persistence and perspective.
It sounds like hard work but you did it. I'd have liked to have at least one other competent sailor aboard so I could nap a little more then you did.
Yes, well done!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey crux - PM me and I'll hook you up with some free BFS swag. You absolutely deserve it my man.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Heh-heh.


Okay, smack, go ahead, call me out on what you apparently see as an inconsistency of policy or hypocrisy on my part. But, before you do, go back and re-read my posts pertaining to this adventure, and point out the section where I wished this sailor any ill will.

Crux did what he set out to do, and succeeded on the second attempt. Good for him, and as I said, well done.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Glad to hear it Crux. Reminds me of my old cruises without power. You get there when you get there.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Okay, smack, go ahead, call me out on what you apparently see as an inconsistency of policy or hypocrisy on my part. But, before you do, go back and re-read my posts pertaining to this adventure, and point out the section where I wished this sailor any ill will.
> 
> Crux did what he set out to do, and succeeded on the second attempt. Good for him, and as I said, well done.


Hey, I'm just razzin' you a bit dude. No cries of inconsistency or hypocrisy...just wrong on this one.

Here's a smiley to take away the sting: 

Classic.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Jeff - that was not a personal attack. Every line you removed was a quote from bl in this thread.

That was the point.

I like bl, I was just pointing out, with his own words, how over the top he was with Crux.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

For all of the speculation, hand-wringing, and second guessing within this thread, I actually have spoken to Zack (Crux) a number of times about his plans. I came away with the impression that this is a responsible and thoughtful young man. 

While you can easily nit-pick aspects of his youthful enthusiasm and some of his specific choices may not match yours or mine, what came across was a very capable person, who has made reasoned decisions about what he hopes to accomplish with this boat. While some may see him pushing the risk envelope further than we personally would intentionally do, it seemed to me that Zack understands the risks and had taken reasonable steps to mitigate these risks a much as possible. When things did not go all that well on his first attempt he was prudent enough to return to port, make repairs and modifications and then wait for a better time and weather window. To me that is a very seamanlike decision. 

While I personally would have suggested that Zack have the boat surveyed, my sense is that he went through the boat in detail and seemingly understands that this is a boat in need of a major rebuild, which will take some time and energy, but will produce a decent boat that he will know inside and out when when he is done. It sounds like he has good construction skills, and is not afraid of a little hard work. 

When I was about Zack's age I bought a 25 year old wooden Folkboat for $400. When the boat was hauled out, the yard owner made me an offer that if I wanted her put right back in the water he would not charge me for the haul. He said that it was pretty unlikely that the old girl would see the water again. When I did not take the offer he approached my Dad, and said, "You have a good kid there but I have watched many better conditioned boats go derelect. That may look like a boat but that is no longer a boat." In most ways the yard owner was right. I spent 10 months restoring that old boat sufficiently to put her back in the water. By any rational standard, it probably was not a great decision. But when I got done, I had put a nice old boat back in sailing condition and all it took was hard work. It sounds like Zack has his hard work cut out for him, but then again he has the energy of youth to help him pull that off. 

I congratulate him on his first long cruise and wish him luck with the restoration of his vessel. 

Jeff


----------



## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

Well said Jeff. I was trying to arrange my sched. to fit Zach's and we missed connecting. While it was a trip w/ some "complications", he did arrive safely and w/ a story to tell.
Hope things go well w/ the refit!


----------

