# Mast Supports for Erie Canal travel



## mc-passage (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi Folks:

Wife and I plan to navigate the Erie Canal from Oswego to Troy sometime soon and are open to any and all tips and suggestions.

One item on my mind is the business of supporting the mast and boom on deck after we have it unstepped ...

I have simple X-shaped supports that I use over the winter here in Rochester, but they're very simple and assume that the boat doesn't rock when its on the hard. 

They're also mighty low, making it difficult to open the hatch on the foredeck, for instance. They're fine for winter, but I can imagine a foot or two higher would make a big difference underway.

It strikes me that folks have been doing this canal trek forever and there's a good chance that there's a good collection of abandonned supports somewhere in Oswego - just as we plan to leave ours in Troy when we have the mast re-stepped.

Should I construct the supports here in Rochester or is there a resource in Oswego where I can find used supports?

Are there folks in Oswego who can make supports on the spot?

Thanks!

Glenn
s./v. Passage
Columbia 36 Mk II (Crealock)
Rochester, NY


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Although there might be old lumber available in Oswego I would not count on it. It's much better to make your own before you get there. Make a crutch for the mast out of plywood for the pushpit. It should be fastened to 2x4's and bolted to the sternrail with U bolts. Make a sawhorse for the mast to sit on at the bow. Also one more support at the mast step/partners. Make it high enough so that the mast can fit over the dodger because sure as hell it's going to rain on the trip through the canal. Take plenty of lines for lashing as you will be waked both in the canal and on the Hudson. You have to cross Lake Oneida and it can kick up pretty fast on that shallow lake. Put the mast on deck butt end forward. This is in case you touch the side of a lock when entering. Doesn't hurt to put a small fender on the mast/furler.

When you are doing the mast in Oswego here's a few tips. Keep the headsail on the foil and lash the whole works to the mast. Keep the main on the boom and stow on deck. This way you protect the foil and also don't have to store sails down below.

The only place for doing the mast in Oswego is Oswego marina and they are a pretty good bunch there. When you get to the Hudson the best spot to step the mast is Riverview Marina in Catskill. Mike, the owner is very helpful.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We did the length from Tonowanda (Buffalo) to Albany and had the mast trucked. It was waiting to be stepped when we arrived. Much much easier. I would at least look into it.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

If you are setting the mast high above the deck, just remember that the farther it is up, the more force it will exert when the boat rolls. If it were to start going, it would be difficult to prevent it from going in the drink and could do lots of damage on its way over. I set mine right down on the cabin deck with some 4X4s under it, supported fore and aft by the rails. It is lashed down tight in 4 different places. I take the dodger down and figure that for 2 days I can do without it. If going a long distance, the trucking idea sounds very nice if it can be done for a reasonable amount. Not having to leap over it negotiating locks nor worrying about hitting lock walls with it would be a BIG positive. It is surprisingly easy to hit lock walls with a mast sticking out 5' forward and aft and can do a lot of damage.


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

I did the North Tonawanda (Buffalo) to Albany route with the mast on board. I also had made the supports before I got there. The BIG MISTAKE I made was to not strip everything - wind instruments, antennas, etc. off the top of the mast when I took it down. So I bought new wind instruments, antennas, etc when the mast smashed against the side of the last (of course) lock (the one on the Hudson River.)

If I were to do the trip again I would seriously look at having the mast trucked.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I have done the Canal several times and found it not too bad. This included with a Nonsuch 30 which has a 50' mast on a 30' boat + the wishbone (which we put upside down when reintalling and no, you cannot make do).
We had our mast go down the centerline of the boat from the pulpit to just above the helm station with support at the bow, middle and just in front of the transom. We cut rounded shapes from old plywood for middle and aft with 2 x 4s going down to the deck and feet going outward from the verticals. Test fit the angles for the feet since they will likely not be 90 degrees everywhere. These we bolted together. First time through we realized that support along the length of the boat is just about as important and sideways. Someone mentioned Lake Oneida and it can be a *****. It develops waves that are only about a foot high but very close together and the boat (and mast setup) develops a pumping motion that is not something you want to experience. We were frantically adding lines everywhere to make sure mast and supports did not move fore and aft too much. Cross the lake at absolute first light before the wind can start.

Do not assume you can get any wood at Oswego Marina. They keep things pretty tidy there and I assume you are going south when others are. We restepped our mast at Castleton Boat Club which is south of Albany. They have a large DIY crane and are not expensive and the people are very friendly. There always seem to be multiple boats doing their masts there so you can help each other. Only problem is that it is right on the river and the powerboat morons can be a problem - better doing on a weekday. If you are coming back you can mark your supports with boat name and date expected to return and stick them behind a shed. We did this and no one had taken them when we returned.

Overall it is a very pleasant and relaxing trip.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

,Only a few additional suggestions, others have covered it pretty well...

X-shaped supports will work fine, I'd agree that you want to make them up before leaving Rochester. sidney pointed out the value of heavy duty ratcheting straps, you can't have too many of those at your disposal, and will be the key to making the whole affair secure... Don't forget to use several in a fore & aft arrangement, much like spring lines, that will help immensely...

I think you want to have the rig at a height where you can still see under it while standing at the helm... I did a delivery a few months ago from Annapolis to Cleveland with the rig on deck, and since so much of the trip was gonna be run in open water, I opted to keep it as low as possible... But, when it came to maneuvering in close quarters, and running the canal in general, it really restricted visibility, and would have been far better to have had it above my head at that point...

Assuming you have a RH prop that walks the stern to port when engaging reverse, I'd suggest you offset the rig to starboard... Maneuvering into locks and coming alongside docks or walls, you'll be better off setting up for coming port side to...

A couple of large round fenders like those pictured below will be worth their weight in gold... You can get away with less heading south, as the only upbound locks will be those in the Oswego section, and over to Lock 21, then it's all downhill from there... Still, at least one pair of oversize fenders are never too much on the Barge Canal...

As others have said, unless you opt for the self service crane in Castelton, Catskill is the place to get re-stepped... I've never dealt with Riverview, only Hop-O-Nose Marina further up the creek, but can report their service was excellent, as well... although, that was quite some time ago...

Pick up the Skipper Bob's guide for the canal, it's the most useful of the guides I've seen - especially when it comes to marking mileage, and what is to be found within walking distance of various stops... Lots of good info, and a great bang for the buck...

Have fun, don't try to rush through the canal too quickly, there's so much wonderful exploring to do along the way, just a fantastic trip...


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Don't forget your VHF. You can rig up a temporary aerial and running lights as Jon's picture above shows. You can get by talking to the lock masters with a handheld VHF but it's nice to have the security of the main radio.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

On the East Side of the Canal, we used Hop-O-Nose. What a bad name. But they did a good job. 

The canal, as well as the river marinas, all took a real beating in the hurricanes and tropical storms last year. Best to research their current status.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

The locks are now set up so that you are directed to come alongside on your port side which, as Jon indicated, is what you want for a RH prop. I usually point in at a shallow angle toward a stop point then SLOWLY, INCHING ALONG, hit reverse which nudges the boat to a stop and straightens it out centered on a rope or pole. (The federal lock has ONLY poles) The key is to go slow and don't rush because some idiot behind with twin screws and a bow thruster is impatient. I rig up fender boards between two big fenders. They are a big help. Large fenders far forward and aft also will keep you off if you make a mistake and may keep the mast from hitting. Some of the walls are quite eroded with big holes which a single fender could get lost in. They also save your fenders from the rough walls, mussels, etc. 

Another thing to watch for is logs. They accumulate around the lock doors. I usually get a bit of speed exiting and then coast through any floating debris at the mouth of the lock. I have heard stuff hitting the prop many times which seems to be somewhat unavoidable, especially after heavy rains. The Erie Canal may be better than the Champlain Canal which intersects the Hudson River.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> The canal, as well as the river marinas, all took a real beating in the hurricanes and tropical storms last year. Best to research their current status.


When I went thru the system in late May, I was surprised how intact everything seemed to be... Troy Town Docks was pretty much the only place that did not have everything back in place, they were late in getting their docks back in, but everything else appeared to be back up and running in a normal fashion...

Of course, the damage to locks and dams on the upper reaches of the Mohawk River section was extensive and obvious, but aside from a few lock walls being under repair and off-limits, there was little effect for boats transiting the system...



smurphny said:


> The locks are now set up so that you are directed to come alongside on your port side which, as Jon indicated, is what you want for a RH prop.


Hmmm, other than Lock 17 heading upbound, I don't know of any other locks where you don't have a choice of which side you'd prefer. Occasionally, going upbound a locktender might direct you to one side or the other if he's having a problem with his valves, and filling might create turbulence across the lock which would make it difficult to hang on one side opposed to the other... I haven't been thru the Champlain section in maybe 20 years, so perhaps things are different there, but on the Erie and Oswego, the choice is yours as a general rule...



smurphny said:


> I rig up fender boards between two big fenders. They are a big help. Large fenders far forward and aft also will keep you off if you make a mistake and may keep the mast from hitting. Some of the walls are quite eroded with big holes which a single fender could get lost in. They also save your fenders from the rough walls, mussels, etc.


Could be just me, but I don't like the idea of fender boards, or anything too rigid riding along the walls,... Just too much risk of getting caught on some of the rougher walls, and tearing out whatever they're hung from... They're probably fine on most of the newer, smoother walls, and in most of the down locks, but I'm still not a fan... Your fenders will certainly get dirty on this trip, but that's about it, they'll no longer really get torn up on the Erie, especially going downbound from Oswego to the Hudson...

One thing's for certain, you do NOT want to hang anything from your lifelines - that's always a bad idea in any case, but especially going up in a lock... Any fenders should be hung from deck level only, attached to the rail, cleats, or stanchions only at the bases...

Always been one of my pet peeves, seeing fenders hung from lifelines at or near a midpoint between stanchions... Amazing, how common that practice is... (grin)


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Last time I went through the Champlain Canal, at least some of the locks had signs saying to keep left and I believe last year I read on the NYS Canal Auth. website that it was the policy for all locks. 
Yes, hanging anything from lifelines is not a good idea. I tie the boards off to the stanchion bases with fenders behind them, they have always worked very well and have never hung up on even the roughest walls. Some of the holes in the concrete are big enough to swallow up anything but a very large fender. Some really large, maybe 24" round buoys, might actually be the best fenders for locks but this boat had some nice rubber faced 2 x 4 core fender boards so I use 'em.

One other note of caution; If you travel through the GE cleanup area on the Hudson be sure to check Notices to Mariners. You can get them right on the Canal Authority website and sign up for updates. The whole area is an absolute mess and you can never know what may be taking place. They move buoys around, block the river with barges, etc. Last year I was waved into a lock only to have to make an emergency maneuver to turn around when bumped by a toxic waste barge coming through. The Canal Authority and the GE clean-up contractor are not sure who's running the locks. I was pissed, the lock keeper was pissed and unsure who was calling the shots. A mess.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

smurphny said:


> The locks are now set up so that you are directed to come alongside on your port side which,


When did they do this? I always used to go starboard side to except Lock 17 which is a side fill lock and northbound you have to go port side to. In a busy lock there was often boats on both sides (except 17).


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Jon Eisberg: If I'm not mistaken the photo was taken while southbound south of the Bear Mountain Bridge. Out of curiousity, why did you still have your mast down?

When the bridge opened in 1924, it was the longest suspension bridge span in the world.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Just a couple of thoughts to add to the many great tips posted above:

1. Think about whether or not to detach your spreaders from the mast. When we did this the first time, we left the mast pretty much fully rigged and ready to re-step. We pulled the lowers but left the uppers attached. It still made for some nervous moments when docking, it also meant that keeping the shrouds organized and out of the way was a bit challenging.

2. Do yourself a favor and pick up a roll of stretch plastic packing wrap:







Use it liberally to secure your stays & shrouds. Much easier than trying to do it with line or bungie cords, and unlike tape won't leave adhesive residue after it comes off.

3. As others have mentioned, ratchet straps are gonna be your new best friends. Get as many as you think you need, then add another half. I'm a big believer in "it's better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them..."


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Vasco said:


> When did they do this? I always used to go starboard side to except Lock 17 which is a side fill lock and northbound you have to go port side to. In a busy lock there was often boats on both sides (except 17).


I noticed it just last year. This is on the Champlain Canal. I don't know if it's true of the rest of the canal system. Sounds like you are referring to the Erie Canal as there is no lock 17 on the Champlain.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Hudsonian said:


> Jon Eisberg: If I'm not mistaken the photo was taken while southbound south of the Bear Mountain Bridge. Out of curiousity, why did you still have your mast down?
> 
> When the bridge opened in 1924, it was the longest suspension bridge span in the world.


That's the Bear Mountain Bridge, alright, but I was actually northbound at the time...

This was the delivery of a Gozzard 44 from Annapolis to Cleveland... We decided to put the rig on deck from start to finish. The boat had just been sold to a new owner, the rig had been down for service and survey in Annapolis anyway. But, there was a major problem with the electric in-mast furling system that was going to have to be dealt with in Cleveland anyway, so it was pretty much a no-brainer to just do the whole trip as a powerboat delivery...

The crew at Port Annapolis did an awesome job building the supports for the rig - I ran into some pretty snotty weather down Delaware Bay, and up the Jersey coast, and of course on Lake Erie, and the whole affair never budged a single millimeter... Had a few days of snap rolling like you wouldn't believe, however... (grin)


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> I ran into some pretty snotty weather down Delaware Bay, and up the Jersey coast, and of course on Lake Erie, and the whole affair never budged a single millimeter... Had a few days of snap rolling like you wouldn't believe, however... (grin)


Jon,

BTDT -- we crossed Lake Michigan in October with the mast down as well; the seasonal storm systems kept the lake pretty bumpy. I think my heart was in my throat for most of the trip. Not having that counterbalance aloft really makes for an, er, _intersting_ motion...


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## Kasidah (Nov 17, 2011)

For anyone looking to step or unstep their mast for the Erie canal you should look at this blog Fair Point Marina near Oswego NY has started on helping cruisers new to it all. 
Fair Point Marina The perfect place to start your journey down the Erie Canal


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## dlblandjr (Jul 7, 2012)

thank you , one and all this has been most enlightening for me, as i plan a great loop trip next year, I had planned this year but med problems prevailed over my plans, I am learning so much now from all of you I feel glad I was forced to wait. Super comradrie here folks, Wow!
Don Bland , Bristol 26'


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## dlblandjr (Jul 7, 2012)

thanks to everyone for an interesting and insightful thread .
don bland Bristol 26


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## 43N77W (Mar 30, 2016)

Hi Glenn,

My name is Greg Simmons, living in Greece, NY. I've fallen victim to the sailing bug several years ago and have finally gotten to the point where I need to start feeding my passion.
In addition to all of the reading and studying I've been doing I want to start connecting to local skippers so I can learn the tried and true method via hands on.

I would like to offer my time to help with preparing your boat for this season and crewing if you ever need company or an extra set of hands. I'm 43, married, working full time and pretty involved with my church. However, after family, church and work, I can see myself throwing everything else into sailing. 

I can swim, a former athlete and in great health. However, I am losing the extra baggage of rice and beans that my Puerto Rican wife has blessed me with (29lbs lost so far).
If there is interest, perhaps we can grab a coffee and discuss.

Many thanks for your consideration. 

Gregory Simmons
PS: I would have private messaged you but I just joined Sailnet and don't have enough posts to do a PM.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Welcome Greg. Glad to hear you've fallen for the sport. However, I don't think you're going to hear back from Glenn. His post was made nearly 4 years ago (see date in upper left corner of each post) and his profile suggests he hasn't signed on since late 2012.

Still, keep poking around. You'll eventually find what your looking for.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

yea Greg i think you missed the boat so to speak!


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## Echappe (Jun 10, 2018)

Minnewaska, realizing this topic is over 2 years old, we are taking a chance that you are still around. Your signature suggests you have or had a Jeanneau 54 DS. We've recently purchased the same and after refit work is complete in Annapolis, we are planning to move the boat to our home port in the Great Lakes via the Erie Canal. We bought our previous Jeanneau 41 in Connecticut in 2000 and successfully delivered it thru the Canal with mast on deck. That mast was deck stepped and thus over hung the 41' boat about 6 feet at either end. The 54 DS is keel stepped and the mast is about 74 feet long, so the overhang will be 10 feet at each end with a much longer LOA to deal with. You said you shipped your mast from Tonawanda to Albany. Was that the 54 DS mast? If so, do you remember who you used and what it cost?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Welcome aboard Echappe. Yup, still around and it was the 54DS mast that I shipped. It’s been so long, I do not recall, but it was a standard boat shipping company. I’m aboard now, but when I get back home, I can see if my records have the invoice. 

We’ve learned quite a bit about the 54DS over the years. Don’t hesitate to reach out, if I can be of any help with her. You’ll need a few more posts before you can send a PM, but open a thread with the boat in the title and I’m sure I’ll see it. Eventually.


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