# what does one have to do to earn the title 'Captain' ???



## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Just idle curiosity but I got to thinking...

What does one have to do to earn that title 'captain', for non commercial craft I mean.

Is there a specific qualification like a yacht masters for example?
or are you a captain by default if you are in command of your own vessel?

I could only find information regarding commercial craft with a quick search and thought I would post a thread as there is bound to be some knowledgable soul in here that can answer this one...


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

In the U.S. you have to pass a USCG license test to be technically a captain. Being called captain simply because you own a boat is a tradition more than anything else. It does not, in my eyes, imply competency.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

He who spends the large amounts of money on the boat gets to be the Captain . but remember if the Admiral is onboard she is the one who gets to tell the Captain what to do


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## RonRelyea (Nov 18, 2009)

people call me "Captain Ron" all the time ... but I'm not quite sure if that's good or bad 

"If something is going to happen its going to happen out there boss!"


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

I will get offended if I'm called Captain. I prefer to go by Alpha and Omega.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Traditionally, the "Captain" is the person in charge of operating the boat. Technically, one may have to have a "Master's License" to be considered an official "Captain", as DRFerron stated above, but most everyone (including the USCG) will refer to the head honcho of the boat as the Captain or Skipper without regard to any license(s) held.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Send me $50 and I'll send you an "official certificate"....with your name on it...


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

I am a dab hand at photoshop and sure I could do that myself, hence the title of the post...

What does one have to do to *earn* the title... 

However, that does bring up a further question...
Whats the difference between a Captain and a Skipper?
(apart from the way they are spelled thank you)


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## zeta (Dec 29, 2010)

I am the skipper of my boat!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" Technically, one may have to have a "Master's License" to be considered an official "Captain", "
And here I thought the Captain drove it, but the Master owned it and had the final word in all matters. As in whaling ships, where the Captain answered to the Master, who might simply be the owner, last seen in port two years before.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

is an RYA 'yacht master' qualification recognised in the US btw?


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

SlowButSteady said:


> Traditionally, the "Captain" is the person in charge of operating the boat.


Yep - Captain Bligh was a Lieutenant when he commanded The Bounty.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

overbored said:


> but remember if the Admiral is onboard she is the one who gets to tell the Captain what to do


Not on my boat. She'll be dropped at the nearest marina with $50 for cab fare.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The Captain is the one who will get in trouble, if anything goes wrong. Official licenses won't matter.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> The Captain is the one who will get in trouble, if anything goes wrong. Official licenses won't matter.


Canada has a adopted an "operator" designation, who is the one on the helm. It is the operator who would be held responsible. In my mind this flies in the face of centuries of tradition and convention and maritime law.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

When speaking over the VHF or mobile phone with bridge tenders, USCG, tow boat operators or commercial vessels, they have always referred to me as Captain, Cap't or Skipper.
I'm not claiming any sort of title (I do not hold a USCG license), however, as others here have pointed out, I'm the one responsible for the safe operation of my vessel, the safety of those on board and those around me. Not something I take lightly.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Buy (and wear) one of these....


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

It's complicated. 

As Jack points out, Canada and many U.S. states have instituted the " operator" designation; which adds another level of responsibilty and liability beyond the 
" tradition".

The Captain ( owner, master whether licensed or unlicensed ) is responsible for the safe and legal operation of the vessel. If you're pulled over and don't have the proper required equipment or documentation on board the Captain is responsible. Same applies if the vessel spills fuel or oil, dumps waste etc etc..

If the Captain turns over the helm to someone else ( the operator) and the operator violates a navigation rule while at the helm, the operator would be liable and..depending on how the authority views the incident they can/may also hold the Captain liable. 

Having an officially licensed captain aboard, doesn't change the above on a recreational vessel AFIK 

I'm curious how the " operator" status affects commercial vessels and liability.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Tempest said:


> It's complicated.
> 
> As Jack points out, Canada and many U.S. states have instituted the " operator" designation; which adds another level of responsibilty and liability beyond the
> " tradition".


As far as I know, the "tradition" of calling someone captain (not talking here about a licensed captain) is a separate issue from who has liability. You can call me whatever you want, but as owner of the boat, I'm responsible for the safety of my passengers, the boat and any damage done by my boat no matter which state I'm in.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

DRFerron said:


> As far as I know, the "tradition" of calling someone captain (not talking here about a licensed captain) is a separate issue from who has liability. You can call me whatever you want, but as owner of the boat, I'm responsible for the safety of my passengers, the boat and any damage done by my boat no matter which state I'm in.


That might change if you have a paid skipper onboard. I have skippered boats for owners and they expected me to make decisions - that is why I was onboard. I told them to let me know if they were uncomfortable with what i was doing.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

jackdale said:


> That might change if you have a paid skipper onboard. I have skippered boats for owners and they expected me to make decisions - that is why I was onboard. I told them to let me know if they were uncomfortable with what i was doing.


True. Maybe. But that takes it to a level beyond what I thought the OP was asking. I've had licensed captains on my boat, I didn't relinquish my responsibility. I'm not sure how that can be done. Not saying it can't be, I just don't understand how it can be. I'm still responsible for my boat and passengers.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

DRFerron said:


> As far as I know, the "tradition" of calling someone captain (not talking here about a licensed captain) is a separate issue from who has liability. You can call me whatever you want, but as owner of the boat, I'm responsible for the safety of my passengers, the boat and any damage done by my boat no matter which state I'm in.


I don't think that I stated otherwise. What I was pointing out was that if someone " operating" your vessel other than you, even though you may be aboard, violates a rule or regulation. They could be fined.

My reference was to liability to the law...not insurance liability.

My reference to " Tradition" was in reference to Jack's post refering to the " Captain" being responsible even if they are not actively " operating" the vessel. That is what is changing.

It wasn't in regard to who is called captain.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I chose the user name in my avatar as CaptainForce. I did obtain my "Ocean Operators" license in 1978 from the Coast Guard. This is now referred to as a "Masters License", but all it means is that I prepared and did well on a written test, passed a physical and documented experience operating a vessel. I have been surprised that some people find the use of the title as ostentatious. Commonly, people operating boats in the Southeast US refer to each other as captain in polite interaction without thought of undo respect or official title. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Canada has a adopted an "operator" designation, who is the one on the helm. It is the operator who would be held responsible. In my mind this flies in the face of centuries of tradition and convention and maritime law.


Do you know if there was any consultation with industry/advocacy groups on that?


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Faster said:


> Buy (and wear) one of these....


Er, I think that particular model probably was discontinued at the end of WWII.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Tempest said:


> I don't think that I stated otherwise. What I was pointing out was that if someone " operating" your vessel other than you, even though you may be aboard, violates a rule or regulation. They could be fined.
> 
> My reference was to liability to the law...not insurance liability.


As was mine. Insurance never crossed my mind.

So what you are saying is, as the owner, if I allow someone incompetent to take the helm and he rams another boat, I don't at least share responsibility in the outcome? Even though I made the decision to allow that person to take the helm?

If that's true, it doesn't seem right.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

cupper3 said:


> Do you know if there was any consultation with industry/advocacy groups on that?


None of which I am aware.

Some email responses from TC



> > > In response to your inquiry regarding use of the term "master"
> > > with regard to pleasure craft.
> > >
> > > First, please note that the Safe Boating Guide
> ...





> >Throughout the various regulations dealing with pleasure craft under
> >the Canada Shipping Act (Small Vessel Regulations, Boating Restriction
> >Regulations, Collision Regulations, etc.) as well as in their
> >corresponding Contraventions Regulations, the terminology applied is
> ...


So it depends - on the courts, I assume.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

My USCG license says "Master", no where does it say "Captain", but after passing the tests I was congratulated as "Captain". I figure that if you are in command of a boat, and responsible for whoever is on it, you're the Captain (with, or without the hat).


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

DRFerron said:


> As was mine. Insurance never crossed my mind.
> 
> So what you are saying is, as the owner, if I allow someone incompetent to take the helm and he rams another boat, I don't at least share responsibility in the outcome? Even though I made the decision to allow that person to take the helm?
> 
> If that's true, it doesn't seem right.


That's not what I said either....if you read my post, I said...that the 
" operator" AND... depending on how the authorities view it..the captain may both be held responsible.

This is the change that Jack was talking about.. that breaks from the 
" tradition" that the Captain is solely responsible.

Most State laws ..don't use the word Captain...they use the word 
" operator". That is intentional.

One could for instance, turn over the helm to someone who is completely competent....but doesn't possess a " required" boating safety certificate...
in that case...both individuals could be fined. It's even less dramatic than ramming other vessels.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Tempest said:


> That's not what I said either....if you read my post, I said...that the
> " operator" AND... depending on how the authorities view it..the captain may both be held responsible.


OK. I wasn't separating owner from operator. That's where I confused myself I think. The Federal regulations say "owner/operator".


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Thank you all for you inputs here.

to clarify my OP, let me give an example...
I met a lovely guy who helped me transport with my last boat (soling) and he was referred to as Captain Hamish, he is an older gentleman and retired.
However he was a captain in the British Navy.

I just got to wondering (which has mostly been answered now) is one a captain by default in the owner/operator of their own boat or does one have to have a Naval/commercial background perhaps to *earn* the title Captain rather than Skipper?

My choice of hat would have to be a this one...








Just for fun when taking nephews out for a sail


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Canada has a adopted an "operator" designation, who is the one on the helm. It is the operator who would be held responsible. In my mind this flies in the face of centuries of tradition and convention and maritime law.


In Australian law I've read (and according to the test I had to go through for my boat license), we call it the person legally operating the vessel as the _"master of the vessel"_. Technically speaking, this person need not be the one at the wheel/tiller - simply the one legally responsible for the boat at the time and so the one that needs to be sober(ish) when the Maritime Police come calling.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

BentSailor said:


> In Australian law I've read (and according to the test I had to go through for my boat license), we call it the person legally operating the vessel as the _"master of the vessel"_. Technically speaking, this person need not be the one at the wheel/tiller - simply the one legally responsible for the boat at the time and so the one that needs to be sober(ish) when the Maritime Police come calling.


Taken literally, that would seem to imply that the " operator" as we now have to distinguish here in the US and in Canada...doesn't have to be sober as long as the " Master" is sober.

That sounded odd to me, so I looked at your law a little. When it comes to alcohol, they seem to distinguish the Master from the designated 
"operator" So that anyone who operates a vessel must be sober. 
And, if I read it correctly it, even at anchor or mooring..there needs to be at least one person below a .05 BAC. Which would make your BAC threshold even lower than ours @ .08 ( no sundowners for the skipper? )

Did I read it correctly that you only need a license if you own or operate a vessel that is capable of achieving 10 knots...or a Jet ski ?

So, no license/ safety course requirements for powered sailboats yet ?


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I've got a "six pack" license which refers to me as "operator" but the Coast Guard has different levels of licensure but the basic one is the OUPV then you can get a Master's license which has many different categories, mostly designated by tonnage and experience of offshore operations. 
The common title to these license holders is "Captain" and if you talk to a layman, they will not know what OUPV is or what it refers to.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

DavidB.UK said:


> However, that does bring up a further question...
> Whats the difference between a Captain and a Skipper?


A Captain has a crew, a Skipper has a Little Buddy.

The whole Ginger vs. Maryanne issue is another thread


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

It seems as though a lot of the "traditional" definitions came from a time when most mariners were professional mariners and there was a higher expectation of competency for those recreational mariners who were on the water.

Today anyone with a few dollars can buy a small boat and be out on the water with little or no training and that changes the equation. These new definitions are trying to deal with a new reality and I'd expect they'll continue to evolve.

Frankly many of the folks out on the water really don't have an understanding of rules of the road or what their responsibilities really are as the owner/operator of a vessel. 

But whether every owner/operator should have to demonstrate competency to earn a license and title of captain is a topic for another thread...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Then, of course, Abe Lincoln was Captain as well.


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## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

Just my opinion: the title Captain needs to be earned either through military service or via (in the US) a US Coast Guard licence, OUPV, 50 ton or any other "Captain's" license. "Skipper" to me is the master of the vessel, whether a licensed Captain or not. So all Captains are Skippers but not all Skippers are Captains. But that is jusst me. The legal definition is:

CAPTAIN or SEA CAPTAIN, mar. law. The name given to the master or commander of a vessel.

according to Captain or sea captain legal definition of Captain or sea captain. Captain or sea captain synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I agree with johnnyquest. Unfortunately, I've come across a few licensed captains (OUPV) who don't deserve the title, either.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

DavidB.UK said:


> what does one have to do to earn the title 'Captain' ???..


I am not sure about in UK, but in Chesapeake, all you need is buy a stinky old boat, "park" in the marina, motoring around in a sunny day, and join sailnet. 

Hey, I am just a deckhand. :laugher


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

johnnyquest37 said:


> So all Captains are Skippers but not all Skippers are Captains


lol, love this reply! :laugher


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

So how did one become a Captain before there was a Coast Guard or Navy? Further, not every naval or CG vessel is commanded by an officer with the rank of Captain, either. 

You don't need no stinking government approval to be called the Captain of your own vessel.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> ...Further, not every naval or CG vessel is commanded by an officer with the rank of Captain, either.


I did not know that.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

The commander of a vessel in the British Navy was the Captain. It is a position, not a rank. I mentioned earlier that Captain William Bligh has the rank of Lieutenant.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

In Brazil, it's very clear-cut. To operate any pleasure watercraft you have to have training and pass an exam to require a license. To navegate in inland waters and harbours requires just a general competence license (arrais amador), navegating between national ports and in open water up to 20 miles offshore requires a Master's license (mestre amador) and navegating outside of national waters and offshore in national waters requires a captain's license. A captain has to pass very rigorous tests. You are a captain if you hold a captain's license. You can't just buy a boat and go off sailing or motoring. I would imagine there is a similar captain's exam in the US as well.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

copacabana said:


> ... You are a captain if you hold a captain's license. You can't just buy a boat and go ff osailing or motoring. I would imagine there is a similar captain's exam in the US as well.


No, actually you can "just buy a boat" and go off...

Whether anybody else is dumb enough to go off with you...is a different story...


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Squidd said:


> No, actually you can "just buy a boat" and go off...
> 
> Whether anybody else is dumb enough to go off with you...is a different story...


I think that may come from old british heritage.
I know the same applies here, it is every Englishman's right (being a boaty nation) to buy a boat and go play...

however there are few who do so without some degree of experience/training, though they do exist...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"So how did one become a Captain before there was a Coast Guard or Navy? "
Klingon School of Accession:

See captain? 
Stab captain. Kill captain.
Now _am _Captain.

What I can't figure out, is that no one ever calls you "Captain" unless the boat is big enough so you drive it from a standing position. Canoes, kayaks, logs, they never honor the Captain, do they?


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> Klingon School of Accession:
> 
> See captain?
> Stab captain. Kill captain.
> Now _am _Captain.


ha ha ha ha!



hellosailor said:


> What I can't figure out, is that no one ever calls you "Captain" unless the boat is big enough so you drive it from a standing position. Canoes, kayaks, logs, they never honor the Captain, do they?


Quite, that was kind of the point behind the OP, I could do figure out what exactly qualifies one to use the title???


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I have a friend who calls everyone he meets "Doctor" ..as in "Nice to see you again 
"Doctor".

He does this because he's terrible at remembering names and he figures if he calls everyone 
" Doctor" they'll be so pleased with the title..that they won't notice or mind that he doesn't remember their name. Once, I was with him when he did this, and the guy said in surprise...
" How did YOU know I was a Doctor?" and he had to confess.

The point....haha.... is that the Coast Guard, Local Leos etc...will usually politely call everyone "Captain" as they write out the summons or put the cuffs on if one breaks their laws. They'll even call the " mate" Captain if they happen to be driving.

Even Gilligan gets promoted to captain.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

I looked to Wikipedia:





From above:
The word "skipper" is used more than "captain" for some types of craft, for example fishing boats.

It is also more frequently used than captain with privately-owned noncommercial vessels, such as small yachts and other recreational boats, mostly in cases where the person in command of the boat may not be a licensed or professional captain, suggesting the term is less formal. However, in the U.S. anyone who is in command of a boat/yacht that carries over six paying passengers must be licensed by a state or the USCG.


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

First you need to know where you are and what rules Apply. The answer starts in artical 1 section 8 Powers of Congress Or article 3 sec 3 Admiralty law. 
California sent me a sales tax bill on my boat, bought while it was under the waters of MDR
but dismissed it when I contested it on the Grounds Marina Del Rey is not part of the state. 
This lecture runs about 3 hours +. without knowing where your vessel is I can't guess. If you can take your vessel by water to another state, country, or an ocean. You are on a NAVIGABLE waterway. that’s federal. the answer is I believe in code of federal regulations title 33 sec.
If you are cited by the USCG under CFR title 33 sec 1.07 you'll wish you had drowned in your bath tub, or as one guy in LA harbor said the citation is more then I paid for the boat. 
If you are in a lake wholly in a state read the states laws. 
When in drought US Supreme court land mark ruling Gibbons v Ogden 1824.
Unless you have a quest I would go have a good dinner with a beautiful woman the go to the boat and watch the lights on the water. 
I went the other way when in 1967 my history teacher told us MDR is not part of the state of California then listed the wrong reason why. I'll give her half credit. But I'm still reading federal law & international treaties that go with it.
JC Boyce Pacific coast 11th district harbor 80.1118 slip E1502


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

zeta said:


> I am the skipper of my boat!


So was GILLIGAN'S mate.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

copacabana said:


> In Brazil, it's very clear-cut. To operate any pleasure watercraft you have to have training and pass an exam to require a license. To navegate in inland waters and harbours requires just a general competence license (arrais amador), navegating between national ports and in open water up to 20 miles offshore requires a Master's license (mestre amador) and navegating outside of national waters and offshore in national waters requires a captain's license. A captain has to pass very rigorous tests. You are a captain if you hold a captain's license. You can't just buy a boat and go off sailing or motoring. I would imagine there is a similar captain's exam in the US as well.


I feel safe in the Brazil water.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> I feel safe in the Brazil water.


But I'm happy I live in the United States, doubt I could pass the test...


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

overbored said:


> He who spends the large amounts of money on the boat gets to be the Captain . but remember if the Admiral is onboard she is the one who gets to tell the Captain what to do


It's just like the Navy - the Admiral never interferes in the running of the ship, they just determine where and when it goes anywhere.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

jc-
"Marina Del Rey is not part of the state. "
How do you figure that?


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Rockdawg, despite the certificate requirements, you wouldn't feel too safe here. It seems the exams have done little to improve boating safety. Just the other day there was another case of an unlicensed minor killing a child on the beach with a jetski (too fast, too close to the beach). And don't get me started on the "creative" nav lights you see on power boats ...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

copacabana said:


> Rockdawg, despite the certificate requirements, you wouldn't feel too safe here. It seems the exams have done little to improve boating safety. Just the other day there was another case of an unlicensed minor killing a child on the beach with a jetski (too fast, too close to the beach). And don't get me started on the "creative" nav lights you see on power boats ...


Just as I suspected. People don't change, just because you regulate them. It just makes those in favor of the regulation feel better. Tragic story.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Alas, it appears to be the same the world over, title's and qualifications are no substitute for moronic behaviour and common sense deficiency.

IMO, if you can be safe (not endanger others) you should NOT be entrusted with a jetski or any other craft for that matter.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Just as I suspected. People don't change, just because you regulate them. It just makes those in favor of the regulation feel better. Tragic story.


Yes. The one character trait that is most crucial in any endeavor such as sailing, or rescue, mountain sports, etc. is common sense and the ability to function creatively under stress. No one has been able to devise a test for this. It does not become apparent until thrown into an actual stressful situation. Flight simulators are probably the closest thing to real-world tests. The people that usually devise most tests are people who sit at desks and devise tests. How do you test creativity in using what's available to solve life-threatening situations? What you get are tests of memory skills; important but only part of what makes up competency.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Agreed. It seems that the majority of the accidents here involve jetskis. The authorities, to their credit, have installed lines with floats at the 200 meter line from the beach to prevent jetskis from approaching the beach. They leave a narrow corridor for watercraft to enter and leave the water. Of course, on more remote beaches (the vast majority) there are no lines of floats and you're at their mercy... I actually believe the certificate requirement has some value as, in theory, you ensure at least a minimum of savy among boaters (right of way, use of lights, navigation basics, light and buoy recognition etc.). The problem is that many use their boats without the license (case in point being the minor with the jetski who killed the little girl on the beach recently).


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

WE do have "Boater Safety" requirements (at least in Wisconsin) for teenage boaters.. 12-18..

Under 12 no drive without direct parental supervision... 12-18 need to take a course (_ ensure at least a minimum of savy among boaters (right of way, use of lights, navigation basics, light and buoy recognition etc.). _ and get a certificate to operate..

After 18 your an adult and "responsible" and on your own...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"the ability to function creatively under stress. No one has been able to devise a test for this."
murph, actually the tests HAVE been devised. Have been used. Have been rejected because when people are put under stress, a certain number of them panic. The same way that a certain number of cardiac patients may have heart attacks under a treadmill stress test.
NASDS used to require a "harassment session" in their SCUBA classes. Everyone in the water in full gear, and the staff would try to panic you, harass you, so you'd bail. If you bailed you didn't pass the course. The logic was simply that some people are panic-prone and if you panic in open water, that might kill you, so better to find out about this in a pool. There were accidents, they got sued...the rest of the industry said it was too dangerous...NASDS has been gone for some years now. I can't say that I saw the stats for every diving accident during those years, but I can say that I saw reports of panic accidents--involving _other _certifying companies.
It is pretty much the same thing as sailing in heavy wx. The first time out, alone, you might be wide eyed. But work up to it, with some experienced company, get to see how it plays, and the next time around, no problem.
Screening CAN be done. But it does (shhh!) lower the "graduation" rates, and the income.


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I find:
1. Since boating was the largest legal money making industry in america, As such they don't want to threaten that by requiring an opperators license.
2. As for test, I don't know of one that actualy manks a person a Seaman, Mariner, or a person who has built the experiance and confedance to have little use for a work, used by another. I find it happens before they know it, that a boater becomes a captain. You want to know if he is a captain or a teriffied land lubber looking for something to run into.
3 as for Wave runners, someone sent me a thread (Something that when they start to break you need to through the sheet away) about a jetski, with a child killing someone on the beach. I do beleave the federal regs. limitation on horse power changing at 10 I don't remember the full rule but it was the reason for a 9.9 instaed of a 10 HP a opperator under the age of ? can only opperate a motor driven dingy by themselves, between the mother vessel & the dingy dock. Which would mean as the inland rules state a a citation can be issued to the opperator, & the vessel. At $5000 per you would think parrents would beach their kids for excessive speed, or hazardous navigation. I did for 30 days.
As for lighting, I know of no light rule change since the COLOREG treaty 1972, which went into effect in 1992. But vessels built prior to reg changes are not supject to the new light rules. Then there are local rules requiring things not matching federal rules. The US Suprem court ruled on the subject in 1824 Gibbons v Ogden. 
JC Boyce


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

sidney777 said:


> Go to school and pay @$600. for a 6 pack license after you pass the written test. Look it up on the internet. There are temporary schools all over. They set up in hotels, etc.
> OR, go thru a few LOCKS and the "lockmaster" guy/gal will call you CAP (short for captain).
> OR, buy some diesel or gas and get called CAP. OR, cut somebody off with your boat and get called somethin else !! How do you get the LOCKMASTER TITLE ?


 Paul is the local instructor, the class is taught up stairs over Ship's store. 
I reread what I posted, T though I was cruising canals for a minute, but What has a lockmaster have to do with any of this.
As for a ticket, I'm saving that for my 100th birthday. though If I had done it while I was with the sea scouts. The USCG only required 163 hours, rather then the 6?? logged hours. Do people still get 6 packs, Everyone I know has or is working on their 100 ton ticket.
As A shipwright I'm not interested in being a captain anywhere but one my own vessel. Doug got his ticket & operated the Catalina express. It drove him crazy. He went back to Aircraft production. I guess he died where started. 
I'll stick to building, repairing, Using vessels and studding international, congressional and maritime (Admiralty) Law. But thanks for the advice.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

jackdale said:


> Canada has a adopted an "operator" designation, who is the one on the helm. It is the operator who would be held responsible. In my mind this flies in the face of centuries of tradition and convention and maritime law.


My Transport Canada licenses say "Master". I have never heard of this "operator" issue you speak off and I work with TC Marine Safety regularly. Where I can I find out more about it.


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

boatpoker said:


> My Transport Canada licenses say "Master". I have never heard of this "operator" issue you speak off and I work with TC Marine Safety regularly. Where I can I find out more about it.


The last time I herd that term was about 74, The Sea Scouts Had an 83' 6" Air sea rescue & an 1893 tugboat. the designated master was Phil ++++. I beleave it was from the documentation. I don't think it's on mine but She's only 10 tons.
I think you would find it in CFR 33 or 46. The fast was would be see if the coast guards answer line is still operating. do a serch for code of Federal regulations title 33 look for electric cfr covering cfr 1-50 
As for changes there are 2 federal treaties. & powers of congress. sorry It's been one of throse days. Mold making is tiring.
sorry I couldn't answer your question. & in case you didn't know every section I have ever seen of every set of laws has a definitions section. a state to a state is a state. But in Federal documents the state is genneraly the USA.
Normally I would call Doug, but he died. If I get a chance I'll call Susan If anyone will know she will.
JC Boyce


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

jcboyce said:


> The last time I herd that term was about 74, The Sea Scouts Had an 83' 6" Air sea rescue & an 1893 tugboat. the designated master was Phil ++++. I beleave it was from the documentation. I don't think it's on mine but She's only 10 tons.
> I think you would find it in CFR 33 or 46. The fast was would be see if the coast guards answer line is still operating. do a serch for code of Federal regulations title 33 look for electric cfr covering cfr 1-50
> As for changes there are 2 federal treaties. & powers of congress. sorry It's been one of throse days. Mold making is tiring.
> sorry I couldn't answer your question. & in case you didn't know every section I have ever seen of every set of laws has a definitions section. a state to a state is a state. But in Federal documents the state is genneraly the USA.
> ...


I think this will answer your question. I quess my computer is tired to 
Master mariner

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Redirected from Master Mariner)

Jump to: navigation, search

A Master Mariner or MM is the professional qualification required for someone to serve as the person in charge or person in command of a commercial vessel. In England, the term Master Mariner has been in use at least since the 13th century, reflecting the fact that in guild or livery company terms, such a person was a master craftsman in this specific profession (e.g. Master Carpenter, Master Blacksmith, etc [1]). In the United States, the term was introduced in the mid-19th century.
JC Boyce


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## goboatingnow (Oct 10, 2008)

> The commander of a vessel in the British Navy was the Captain. It is a position, not a rank. I mentioned earlier that Captain William Bligh has the rank of Lieutenant.


Note "Commander" was a rank in the RN, so the term commander of the vessel is incorrect.

The term " Master" was generally used to denote commercial "captains" and derives from "sailing master". Sailing Masters in the RN did command vessels , usually not in times of war or if doing deliveries. One could say "who is the master, aboard?". or "Who is the Captain?", neither of which denotes rank.

The Royal Navy of the 18th Century( here all this rank stuff originated) had no rank of "Captain". If was an honorific title ( as it is today) conferred in daily use to whom ever was in charge of the vessel at the moment.

IN the RN actual titles were Master ( a non commissioned rank), Lieutenant ( pronounced correctly , wheres the Loo), Commander, Post-Captain, etc.

So this is why today , there isn't really such thing as a Captain as a rank. it denotes the person in charge irrespective of rank

When Bligh returned to England he was promoted to the rank of Post-Captain. Bligh was an extremely able and competent naval man, who TV and film has treated abominably.

Dave


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

On the W coast you would hail a private or fishing vessel with the term 'skipper' This is used on the radio too so you know you're dealing with the one in control. Commercial,usually larger and/or carrying passengers, require appropriate licenses and may be hailed as Captain .Just because you work at a health clinic doesn't give you the title of Dr. ** I've often heard the hail 'Hello Sailor' used to good effect too so it appears to be situation dependent.}


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Awww you guys got it so easy! Just being Male gets just about all of you called "Captain"! 

Some of you may remember this fun and sometimes furious discussion;http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersailnet/60079-womyn-never-called-captain.html

Hell, I even got called on using the word Womyn (feminist spelling) instead of the patriarchal spelling! For me, it's always fun watching people try to figure out who to call captain when able bodied sea"persons" are on a boat.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

boatpoker said:


> My Transport Canada licenses say "Master". I have never heard of this "operator" issue you speak off and I work with TC Marine Safety regularly. Where I can I find out more about it.


Master is a "commercial" designation. Pleasure Craft Operator Card (PCOC) is a recreational designation.

Getting Started - Transport Canada


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

goboatingnow said:


> Note "Commander" was a rank in the RN, so the term commander of the vessel is incorrect.
> 
> The term " Master" was generally used to denote commercial "captains" and derives from "sailing master". Sailing Masters in the RN did command vessels , usually not in times of war or if doing deliveries. One could say "who is the master, aboard?". or "Who is the Captain?", neither of which denotes rank.
> 
> ...


I do believe the original question was what does it take to be called captain, leading to what is a captain, leading to where, Then when. Canadian term master was brought up for a definition. Back to Captain

I am here, now, I realize the following definition is a military , But I am on a navigable body of water, which according to The US Constitution, 2 international treaties, federal law, congressional law & multiple rulings of the US Supreme court, beginning wit Gibbons v Ogden 1824. which only came close to modification from 1910 to 1940. 
I list this for perspective, I live and Navigate where according to the US Supreme court the perfection of the US Constitution does not apply. and state officials run when you point out their claiming jurisdiction is a federal crime.

Rank of Captain (United States)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the uniformed services of the United States, captain is a federal commissioned officer rank.

[hide] 1 U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Marine Corps
2 U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Public Health Service, and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration 2.1 United States Maritime Service

Insignia of the Army, Air Force and (with a slight difference) Marine Corps rank of captain (O-3) 
In the United States Army, the United States Marine Corps, and the United States Air Force, captain is a company grade officer rank, with the pay grade of O-3. It ranks above first lieutenant and below major. It is equivalent to the rank of lieutenant in the other uniformed services, i.e., the United States Navy, the United States Coast Guard and the commissioned corps of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. The insignia for the rank consists of two silver bars, with slight stylized differences between the Army/Air Force version and the Marine Corps version.

An Army and Marine captain generally commands company-sized units. When given such a command, they bear the title company commander. Captains also instruct at service schools and combat training centers and are often staff officers at the battalion level. Marine captains also serve as officer selection officers, commanding recruiting stations for commissioned officers.

An Air Force captain's authority varies by group assignment. In an operations group, senior captains may be flight commanders while more junior captains may be heads of departments. In the maintenance or logistics and mission support groups they are almost always flight commanders. In the medical group, captains usually have limited administrative and command responsibility as captain is frequently the entry level rank for most medical officers and dental officers.[1]

In Army and Air Force medical units, captain is the entry-level rank for those possessing a doctorate in a healthcare related profession (including pharmacists, optometrists, veterinarians, and dentists, among others). In Army and Air Force Judge Advocate General units, captain or first lieutenant is the entry-level rank for lawyers who already have their Juris Doctor degree and have been admitted to the bar of at least one U.S. state or territory.

MARSOCs fourteen man Marine Special Operations Teams (MSOT) are commanded by a captain.

[edit] U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Public Health Service, and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

Insignia of the Navy rank of captain (O-6, line officer); equivalent Coast Guard sleeve and shoulder board insignia is a lighter shade of blue with a gold USCG shield above stripes 
See also: Captain (naval)

In the United States Navy, the United States Coast Guard, the United States Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps, captain (CAPT) is a senior officer rank, with the pay grade of O-6. It ranks above commander and below rear admiral (lower half). It is equivalent to the rank of colonel in the other uniformed services. Navy captains with sea commands in the surface warfare community generally command ships of cruiser size or larger. The more senior the officer, the larger the ship. In the submarine community, a captain will typically command a ballistic-missile submarine (SSBN), or a squadron of attack submarines (SSN). In naval aviation, captains with sea commands generally command aircraft carriers, air-capable amphibious assault ships, carrier air wings, functional air wings or special mission air wings or air groups. Commanders of aircraft carrier strike groups and expeditionary strike groups are normally rear admirals, while subordinate destroyer squadron commodores, amphibious squadron commodores, carrier air wing commanders and the individual ship commanding officers within the strike group are of captain rank or lower. In rare instances, the carrier air wing commander may be a Marine Corps colonel who is a naval aviator or naval flight officer, while in the expeditionary strike group, the Marine Expeditionary Unit commanding officer will be a Marine Corps colonel.

The answer to the original question might be found under Yacht captain. But we must remember federal law does not require the data on the internet to be true or correct as with news papers or television.

I do know for a fact that when a USCG boarding party requests permission to come aboard, you are addressed as Skipper.
JC Boyce


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## CaptGregg (Apr 24, 2012)

In the past, when stopped by the USCG, the first thing they've asked was, "Who's the captain?" In the past, my father spoke up because it was his boat and his responsibility.

I guess in this respect, the title "Captain" refers to the operator in responsible charge, in other words, who can get sued when things go wrong. This will be the owner of the boat if aboard or whomever accepted responsibility for him in taking the boat and/or others.

The only certificate my father ever got concerning boating was a Power Squadron's Boat Operations Completion Certificate.

(I obtained my username on here because my first name is Gregg and it's my boat. It's also a playoff from the old movie "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir", the ghost being Captain Gregg.)


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## goboatingnow (Oct 10, 2008)

Jcboyce, I was referring to the origin of the term, the basis of naval ranks today was the Royal navy and it had Until relatively recent no rank of captain. In fact captain was a army rank. 

Hence the title captain has an honorific background as opposed to later usage where it became a rank. 

Dave


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

"Captain" is a certification and "degree" of sorts based on the ability to check the correct box(es). A Skipper on the other hand is the guy/girl in charge of the boat. Either one of them may or may not be competent to have care and control over a vessel, its crew and,or passengers.
Experience is the answer you seek.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

'just another bit of trivia,- most of the bridge tenders on the East US Intracoastal Waterway address those that speak to them by VHF radio from a vessel as "Captain". Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

You guys are getting WAY to into this. All you need to do to be a Captain is take a boat under a draw bridge. Every time I do it they guy on channel 9 always calls me Captain.

"This is Ortega River Bridge calling Captain of the unknown sailing vessel heading outbound. What are your intentions? Over."

Also, just force people who come aboard to call you Captain. Then quickly delegate your first and second mates so they can begin work while you begin being a kickin ass captain. Argh.

Over. Out.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If you are not willing to recognize the Captain, you should not request permission to be aboard, nor should you receive it.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

DavidB.UK said:


> Just idle curiosity but I got to thinking...
> 
> What does one have to do to earn that title 'captain', for non commercial craft I mean.
> 
> ...


You have to spend endlessly on your boat, cash in your retirement, hit the dock (and blame it on the first mate though you were driving), let out enough scope to bang into your neighbor (or not enough and drift into them in the middle of the night), be able to grill and scream through the VHF at the Sea Ray that cut you off and scream at the kids about bringing their marbles into the cockpit and yell for the wife to bring you a beer and steer and navigate (all these at the same time). Most of all, you need to get on Sailnet and shower everyone with brilliance while dazzling them with BS. The more post count, the smarter you are... unless you are Jeff_H or Sailingdog, then just ignore them. They learned it from me.

I sir, have acquired my official Captain's license. Took years and many gray hairs (and many apoligies), but I have made it.

Signed,

Captain Dad

PS Or, you can skip all those steps, and just hail Sea Tow. They will call you Captain too, especially when explaining that your policy does not cover the hard grouning and you are $2000 to get off... AND YOU PAY IT AND THANK THEM!!!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> ......hail Sea Tow. They will call you Captain...../QUOTE]
> 
> We have a winner........


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## captjim6 (Aug 14, 2007)

Well, I paid the bill for The Doctor, First aid, paid for the exams, Rules of the road (colregs) in the great lakes, Navigation, Fire fighting, First mate exams.
This gave me a 100 ton Masters, this gave me the prefix of Captain, after 5 years I dropped it as I had other interests of importance.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

But it is in your handle, captjim6.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

jcboyce said:


> First you need to know where you are and what rules Apply. The answer starts in artical 1 section 8 Powers of Congress Or article 3 sec 3 Admiralty law.
> California sent me a sales tax bill on my boat, bought while it was under the waters of MDR
> but dismissed it when I contested it on the Grounds Marina Del Rey is not part of the state.
> This lecture runs about 3 hours +. without knowing where your vessel is I can't guess. If you can take your vessel by water to another state, country, or an ocean. You are on a NAVIGABLE waterway. that's federal. the answer is I believe in code of federal regulations title 33 sec.
> ...


I have no idea what the heck you just said....
Seriously, is some of your post missing? This is kind of disjointed and scattered, and I am not quite getting the point of the post.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Buy a boat, yer an instant captain, then you can understand the above thread message, something about water on the brain.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I get some flack for having it as a handle here on SN sometimes. I was very reluctant to use it. I've had a lisence of some sort for 20 years. Starting of course with the 6 pack. I first used it as my E-mail address, and this was pure buisness. I waited how ever untill I had my Master lisence and had been a captain for 10 years before I ever used it. By the time I joined SN , I had just completed my 200 ton master. This, weather some of you feel it or not, is quite a personal achievment. I think after you have put in the sea time required on commercial vessels over 50 ton, and gone through the training and the friken stability test etc. You have earned the right to call your self Captain. Like my first instructor told us when we recived our 6 pack lisence. " you know what you call some one with a 6 pack?".......
" Captain". One difference is if you are actually using it. I ran a 30 foot Catamaran on back country sail charters with my six pack right out of the gate. There was another dude in my first class who had all of his time on a jet ski.


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## DougSabbag (Aug 3, 2011)

Get a boat. Eventually, someone will call you: "Captain".

The Captain is the person responsible for everything about that boat. From the tampon in the toilet to the 50 mph winds and 20 foot seas.

It is a blessing and a curse.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Whatever it takes to earn the title of captain aside, I've always found myself a bit curious about those who attach the title to their name in everything they do and insist on being called Cap'n, even by their spouse and kids.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

Ok here is a step by step sure way of being a recreational captain.

1: get some cheap rum and beer the beer in cans ( don't worry its not for drinking)

2: hoist all your halyards to the top of the mast without sails attached.

3: drain you fuel tank to a level that will just get you to a sand bank of your choice.

4: leave you anchors at the dock

5: tip the beer over board and place the crushed beer cans in and around the cockpit.

6: tip some rum on your shirt and pants

7: Run the boat onto the sand bank and let the motor tick over till the fuel is gone.

8: call tow boat US and have your sorry ass towed back to the dock.

While the guy fills out the paper work he will call you captain.

Hope that helps

Michael


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

You hire me as a crew, you pay me well and on time, and I will call you Captain all day. I will even throw in the "aye aye" for free.


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

JoeDiver said:


> Not on my boat. She'll be dropped at the nearest marina with $50 for cab fare.


Joe, 
Just curious, it's been over a year. Are you still married??


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

The connotations of many words change by time and place. Some appear to be offended by the term captain as sexist or ostentatious. Even though this may be true among some it's not the norm among many. Do you remember when it was a compliment to call someone discriminating, as referring to them as having good taste? Do you remember when a chauvinist was a fanatic patriot? In my crusing ground a captain is just someone operating a boat.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I'd remove it from my username if I could, failing that I do have the hat


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

Buy a big hat


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