# Message in a bottle



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

To all you cruisers...I have to know, how did you get away to fullfill your dreams? By that I mean, I know some of you are wealthy, and some of you are retired, but what about the others? I think about going daily (if not hourly), but in my situation it''s just not possible for at least another 4 years. At that time, I would be leaving a job at 50 years of age, 5 years short of getting paid medical benefits.I try to rationalize this by thinking "the longer I wait, the stronger the chance that I won''t ever get to go will be."Are there any cruisers out there that faced a similar dilemma? Do you have medical insurance? Are there any insurance companies that offer attractive rates for cruisers? (insurance companies offering discounts -I have to laugh at that one myself.)Anyway, to me this is a pretty big obstacle to overcome.Any advice or opinions would be appreciated.Thanks!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

American Express offers a good policy to cover out of country but it is limited in it''s application. Not very exprensive either.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There have been a tremendous number of articles on Sailnet related to just these topics. The category used to be called "Finaces Afloat" and covered everything from preparation, to expected costs, to insurance. Unfortunately, the new format at Sailnet makes it difficult to find these articles easily any more.

But, here are some suggestions to find them.

1. Some of the best articles have been written by "Sue and Larry". If you look through their listed articles you are likely to find these easily.

2. Search Sailnet for "Finances" and "Health Insurance" or just "Insurance".

You will see that taking on a cruising lifestyle may be a lot less expensive than you think.


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Thanks btimm,I''ll dig through the achives for the articles you mentioned.The great thing about this board is the help that someone else is always willing to give.Must be a sailor thing ; ^ )


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Stede,

Its sounds like finances are your key consideration. I don''t want to get into the medical insurance issue, as it varies for everyone, but rather the issue of boats and cruising costs. 

I think that having a good plan, considered well in advance, is the key to limiting your cruising costs. I don''t know if you already have a boat but your choice of boat can dictate your later expenses. A nice large more traditional boat like a "Capt Ron" Formosa 51 might be compelling. But... being a 1970''s vintage it will need a lot of upgrading and most systems will begin to go. You want to spend your leisure life in leisure and not working on the dinghy outboard, replacing through hulls, bilge pumps, tech decks, rigging etc etc. Of course, if you have had a boat for a few years prior to cruising and have already upgraded all systems before going, you should be OK. 

Also, in my experience, I have found that marinas have a somewhat common slip arrangement. 40ft slips are standard and may accomodate a boat up to 44ft with no extra cost. Of course most places will charge by the foot. Once over 44 ft....you then begin to pay big time. Again...this is in my experience, obviously this is not true everywhere and if you are going to be anchoring in the south pacific, it does not matter. 

But in general, the bigger the boat the more everything costs. The older the boat, the more everything costs. I am not sure what the perfect boat size is...and LOA does not relate directly to cabin space or comfort...LWL and displacement are better indicators IMHO. And different people have different needs...this would be an interesting thread on its own. 

After that, your cruising costs can and will be adjusted by how often you eat out, how often you take a mooring or slip and where you cruise. The islands are not cheap anymore and fresh water is not free anymore. But by and large, many cruisers are out there doing it. 

Hope this helps.

John


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello Stede,

Funny you could have been describing me and my husband. We both have sailing and cruising on the brain. It is our focus and goal to start living the cruising lifestyle within the next 2 years. I have heard that its important whether you are ready or not to set a date and all else will follow.

Our situation is the same even though you are a bit ahead of us. We''re in our late 30''s, planning to cut out in the midst of our most productive earning years, and we are definitely not wealthy. Our concerns are how to support ourselves in our older years without having to get back into the dreaded career thing again.Just want to have it be a choice not a requirement. Live in a 3rd world country? Will our measly savings and investments create enough income. How much do you really need to "retire" early etc. The costs of the cruising lifestyle I''ve heard, are fairly inexexpensive compared to land life in So Cal. 

So, question to those who know given the costs of living cruising style, which I think would be similar to land life in some 2nd & 3rd world countries, how much cash reserves would be realistic to plan on for the future? Is this even a question that can be answered?

Thanks to all who share their input. I do think its a sailor thing by the way. People are so generous with their knowledge. Hopefully one day I will have the experience to share as well.

Cheers,

Pamela


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Hi Pamela,and JohnDrake,
It''s great to hear from fellow dreamers that have the desire to cruise, and others that have turned that desire into reality.The financial thing is indeed the big ticket item.My dream has been for my wife to sail off into the sunset with me,but she has been battling cancer and right now things don''t look to good.It''s a very tough time,and a struggle to hold on to the dream. Planning,saving,and learning as much as I can, is the one thing that eases my mind and grants me some peace.This board is part of that process and I''m truly thankful for you all being here.


----------



## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Sometimes to travel hopefully is better than to arrive...may your days right now be filled with tremendous hope of the travels ahead.

bobbi
SV Kokopelli


----------



## bob-m (Oct 30, 2002)

Stede,

Our thought and prayers go out to you and your wife. Breast cancer brought us ashore 2 years ago. Fortunatley, my wife has be cancer free for about 8 months now. I have sailed for over 40 years and cruised full time for 12. During those years I have been in lots of situations which turned my knuckles white, put my stomach in my throat and caused me to question my religion. But none of those events prepared me to hear "we found a growth and it appears to be spreading". Aboard our boat, I was always the one that was "in control" and my wife often looked to me for strength. How quickly roles reverse. She took the news as a challenge; I wept.

In your original post, you asked about insurance. If we had not had health insurance we could never have afforded the level of medical attention which saved my wife''s life. She would not be with us today and I would be bankrupt. Alot of people who drop everything and "just do it" seem to think that cruising is a magic pill that insures good health...WRONG. I have seen countless cruising dreams destroyed by health issues.

When we decided to cruise we developed a 3 years plan. The planned called for us to be debt free, 2 pieces of rental property paid for(approx. $1500 a month income), $50,000 in the bank (in 1988), and the boat paid for. We sold a 4000s.f. home and moved into a 1180sf house (our kids hated us), we sold the new cars and drove 2 old Volvos (again, our kids hated us), we quit eating out and stopped taking vacations (yep, the kids hated this too). My wife went back to work (school teacher) and I started working 60-70 hours a week in my business (by that point the kids were glad that they never saw me).

About 2 months before we sent our youngest off to college we sold our Hunter 27 and bought our C&C. I sold my business and we moved to the coast. My wife landed a teaching position and I worked part-time and spent the rest of my time refitting the boat. We lived aboard and worked for 1.5 years. One day we were sitting in the boat, it had been raining for 3 days and we were both going stir-crazy. My wife said "why the hell are we doing this" (my heart sank, I just knew my dream was over) "this is where we ought to be". She handed me a magazine turned to a picture of the VI''s. She turned in her resignation that week and we left about a month later.

My advise to anyone who seriously wants to cruise: establish a plan and stick to it. It will probably take 3-5 years, but it is truely worth the sacrifices. We have met 100''s of cruiser. Almost every one who had been cruising for more than one years fit into 2 catagories: 1)independently wealthy 2)had a longterm plan like ours. Very few who "sell every thing and just go", actually make it. These are the same unrealistic fools who thought the stock market would go up forever, quit their jobs and became day-traders. Now they work two jobs so they can pay the alimony and child support.

Be realistic. Have your finances in order. Take it one step at a time. Try living aboard and working for a year while you prepare the vessel and the crew. 

Again, best of luck to your wife!!!

Bob-M


----------



## bob-m (Oct 30, 2002)

Pamela,

If your goal is to start cruising in 2 years, NOW is the time to "start living the life style". Do you have a realistic financial plan? You will need a source of income and an escape plan. 

If I were your age, I would move to the east coast (much cheaper to live here)and continue my career, buy a veeeery small house and save, save, save. Get rib of everything except the essentials. This includes fancy cars, 3 TVs, the golf clubs (you can no longer afford expensive hobbies), etc.. Stop eating out. Can you sew? Can you & your husband fix almost every thing on the boat. Take a diesel mechanics course, get your HAM radio license. You need to be self-sufficient. If you can''t do it on the hard, you won''t do it afloat!

Then, find your boat and move aboard. Keep the house to come back to if necessary. Continue to work. This is a great way to determine if having a floating house is really for you, without giving up your careers. If the answer is YES, wait until you are financial ready. You will sail every chance you get. This will get you prepared for a new and fantastic life. DO NOT listen to advise like, "go small and go now". Remember, these folks are not selling books, they are selling dreams. If done correctly, this WILL BE YOUR LIFE for years to come!!! Your boat is about to become your home. You want to be comfortable. Not all days are sunny. You will spend countless rainy days aboard. 

Good Luck!!!

Regards
Bob-M


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Thanks for your response Bob-M and your kind words concerning my wife.Only someone that has been there can understand.I''m glad that all is well with your wife now.It was very awakening to hear from someone that is doing the dream, and the sacrifices made to get there.Patience has never been a strong trait of mine, especially when it comes to wanting to go cruising.I know to be able to keep cruising, a good financial plan has to be in place. I''ve been working on that.I''m saving and investing what I can.In the mean time, I sail my 26ft boat in various locations every chance I get and am studying to obtain my Captains license.My wife used to sail with me but no longer can.We chartered several larger boats in the Carribean, and Greece.She understands how I must sail and encourages me to continue to do so.I recently single-handed my boat to the Bahamas,but missed her terribly during the trip.I don''t know what the future holds for us or when my dream will be fulfilled,but I know the Lord is with us no matter what happens.Thanks again for sharing your experience and we hope that you and your wife have many more wonder years cruising.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Bob (and everyone else) -

Dumb question - but assuming you (and a majority of us) fall into the "need a plan" category - how do you know financially when you are ready to go....

I have done a lot of cruising and lived aboard my 36'' S2 for several years. I understand that the crusing budget itself is not very large (I''ve heard it can be in the neighborhood of about $15,000 per year). Establishing the means to generate this kind of income while crusing is - for someone in their late 30''s to 40''s - not outrageously difficult.

But what if you decide you want a land life after several years. I would think to have that kind of life, one would need $750K to $1 M stashed away. Or - one would need to return to a fairly lucrative career at an arbitrary point in the future (which I don''t think would be that easy to do after being away for several years and getting older still).

I''m not asking (nor do I expect) for you to put your actual numbers on the board - but if you think my numbers are even ball park correct) - how did those "on a plan" that you met cruising - to your knowledge - handle this.

I, too, want to get away. I have few commitments and fortunately I make a very good living and I don''t spend a lot on things that aren''t necessities - but I don''t see being able to retire in 5 years. I just don''t understand how others can do it!

Can you shed any light on this?

Thanks.


----------



## bob-m (Oct 30, 2002)

Stormer,

The answer really depends on what you expect when you go back (IF you go back). My wife & I lived a rather "fat" life style before we made the commitment. New cars every 3-4 years, ski vacations, sailing E/O weekend, a 4000sf house, ate out 3-4 nights a week. It has been close to 20 years (4 planning, 1.5 living aboard & working, 12 cruising, 2 ashore of medical reasons). Once we rid ourselves of our material "things", we never missed them. Now that we have been back for 2 years, things like a big house, tv''s in every room, new cars, etc. seem almost decadent. In our 20s, 30s & early 40s be HAD to acheive and accumulate stuff. It proved how sucessful we were and we enjoyed it. Cruising has truely changed us. The only way I can think to say it is: we are simple people now and live a simple life style. 

To be specific about finances, we had 2 rental houses that now net us $1500 mo. My wife receives $1100 a month in retirement. The money we received from the sale of my business was substantial. We earmarked $1000 per month towards cruising(We have never touched the principal or the additional interest). When we left, everything was paid for (boat, rental property, one car) and we had a little over $50,000 in the cruising account.

The last few years aboard, we probably spent $2000 - $2500 per month (excluding any refit expenses). We usually were able to save about $10,000 each year which usually went into the boat. We know lots of folks who spend closer to $2000 per month, INCLUDING boat upkeep, but they are in smaller/older boats or in some cases stop periodically and work.

There are a million different situations, but in general I thnk I would be correct in saying that folks don''t go back to their old life styles. Living afloat tends to slow you down and causes you to look at the world and life differently. Isn''t that why you want to go??? However, if you think that you will want to "pick-up where you left off", it will probably be difficult to do so without substantial reserves.

Regards
Bob-M


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello again to all,

We are engaging in some very important subjects. It seems that no matter where we all fall within the process, we''re on the same page. There are many reasons that have fueled our desires, but one primary reason I have relates to health, and the strong desire to travel and experience this lifestyle whilst healthly. While my parents were in the midst of their cruising, my dad was undergoing interferon treatments for Hep C, amongst other things and mom was in menopause. Ick! Sounds miserable!

Stede, you and your wife are in my prayers!

As far as developing and undertaking a plan, since we are sharing some specifcs. Here''s our plan. Maybe some further ideas can be suggested and/or someone might be able to apply some of our plans in their own situation. that''s what this dialogue is all about right?

My husband and I have been boat centered for several years now. We purchased our Fairweather Mariner/ Westsail 39 about 2 years ago. Since we live close to the marina, we spend nearly every weekend at the boat either maintaining, upgrading, or playing. My husband knows the mechanical systems very well, and I am learning. We do all the regular maintenance, brightwork, enginework, everything ourselves (except cleaning the bottom),which creates a stronger knowledge base with each project. In fact the cruising upgrades have begun with the intention that by the time we cut the lines we will know how to run and have the bugs mostly worked out of the various systems. Yes, I can sew and I am a very good whipper and seizer!

Our financial plan is this.

We own an apartment building which nets $2-3000/month after expences, vacancy reserve, mortgage, etc. We feel relatively comfortable that a reasonable level of positive income can be produced even with a drop in rents, increase in interest rates, or change in market conditions. This is our crusing income.

Neither of us will receive retirement income from our careers, and because we do not want to have to jump back into the system afer cruise life, Our future land plan would be with the assumption that we will live somewhere other than US. It is just too expensive to live in the US near the ocean which is important to us. 

We will maintain our current health insurance "Blue Shield" which will cover emergency situations outside of US and full coverage otherwise.

Savings wise, not including IRA''s etc. which are stuck in the fluctuating mutual fund market, & not that huge anyway after losing most of their value, our goal is to have a minimum of $250,000 cash, plus the equity in our home which we still might consider selling (apx $200K equity). This principal will sit untouched til life after cruising.

We rarely eat out (maybe 1-2X/month), don''t spend money on any new home stuff, drive well maintained 8 yr old cars, rarely buy new clothes. Yet to look at us, we do not appear lacking- just a matter of choices and priorities. 

Relating back to Stormer''s message... Does this plan seem realistic and for life after cruising in "work optional" mode, outside of the US , do these reserves seem adequate. 

I''ve figured that worst case if we had to come back to US we could reinvest our principal into multi-family property and create some additional income.

Our plan is to move aboard next summer after we sell our house and one of us quits work. As long as we both continue to work, it just too hard to have our big dog without a big yard! 

So, I feel like I''ve seriously rambled here. But I guess I''m hoping that someone will say Yes, your plan is sound. GO FOR IT!

Thanks to all, i appreciate all of your input and great thoughts!

Pamela


----------



## bob-m (Oct 30, 2002)

Pamela,

I''m truely excited for you. It is obvious that you and your husband have done what is necessary from the financial end to live out your dream. From what you have outlined, you are more than ready. A budget of $2500 per mo. is more than enough. Barring any unforseen events, you should have enough for some extras (ocassional car rentals, movies, restaurants, etc.) I''m even more excited for your husband. He is lucky enough to be married to you. A spouse who shares the dream equally; this is rarely the case and makes your chances of success much greater.

If you intend to cruise for an extended period of time, why are you going to keep the house? Unless you are emotionally attached, more investment property = more $ to put away for when you do return.

Regards
bob-m


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Pamela, Congratulations to you and your husband! It sounds like you and him are about ready to untie the lines and sail away.I have to echo Bob''s comments about your husband being a lucky man to have someone like you that shares the dream.It''s always good to hear of someone making the dream come true.Your financial picture sounds a whole lot better than mine will be when I go.But as a friend of mine use to say,"Poor folks, have poor ways." I won''t exactly be poor,but I should have enough to live a modest cruising lifestyle. I have some skills that I can fall back on if needed.Thanks for the comments concerning my wife. Bon voyage!


----------



## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Stede,
You have a whole family of sailors keeping you and your wife in our thoughts. Remember that when you need a little extra support.


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Hey, thanks Kokopelli9! It does feel like family here, with only an occasional squabble noticed between the inlaws. ;^)


----------



## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Hey Stede,
Check your personal message center...


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Thanks Bobbi...right back at you!


----------



## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

To Stede & the group...

Looking back at this thread, there are some pretty consistent messages. Beyond them, it''s fair to apply general themes about financial & retirement planning to a ''cruising escape'' plan, as they are in fact the same. Here''s my shot at summarizing, folding in info from other sources (e.g. Latitude 38 frequently has cruising sailor accounts of budgets, financial planning prep, etc.) and our own experience:
1. Medical insurance once you surrender access to a group plan, is one key inhibitor for many. Because health coverage is more universal and liability costs are far less in other developed countries, we have to at least investigate sources of coverage outside the U.S., e.g. Siegfried Preuss Group Health in Germany, which cruising sailors have found (e-mail: [email protected]). For an explanation of this, one helpful boat web site is http://www.norsiglar.com/english/spesificationf.html - look for ''insurance'' on the left margin.
2. "Retirement Income" for most of us can only be the result of working a savings & investment plan relentlessly for a lengthy period. If unclear how to do this thoroughly, attend an Adult ed course. Alternatively, get one of the many excellent books and work your way through it, together if with a partner, religiously. Some folks enjoy having a hefty Golden Handshake but most of us who are cruising got here by spending carefully, investing steadily, and remaining on careful budgets while cruising. No secrets; just steadily working The Plan.
3. The money used to invest in one''s escape (whether it qualifies as ''retirement'' or is just a ''break'') comes from examining your lifestyle and adjusting it to support your future goals - again, no secrets. There are lots of good examples of this in the posts preceeding this one, but here are a couple of details I don''t see being mentioned that are very helpful for some of us: 1) initially write down every single expense, every day, over several months - usually, people discover money is being used in ways or in quantities that surprise them; 2) construct an annual budget based on the essential expenses you are identifying, and follow the budget - this means posting expenses, revisiting goals, adjusting the budget as you learn what was omitted/can be done without, etc. at least weekly...until this becomes a way of life; 3) Your computer is your friend - it makes doing all this ''book-keeping'' much less painful; moreover the web has some useful $$ planning software on-line and free.
4. FWIW, we have kept a 4-year annual budget, looking forward, for the last 10 years, to help us reach both our cruising goals and retirement planning goals. It wasn''t fun but was the only way we got where we did. Altho'' we are inbetween extended cruises and busy doing a refit, we continue to maintain the budget and track costs daily even tho'' folks might assume we no longer need to. Truth is, we do. We have left careers twice for extended periods (once in our early 40''s, without health or boat insurance; now in our 50''s, with health & boat insurance - guess we''re more risk averse now!) and believe re-entry to the work world is just another challenge that must be thoughtfully tackled once you face it.
5. Amen to the many comments about adopting the lifestyle before you begin the cruise! Working on boat systems is like on-the-job training with both immediate & longer-term financial benefits. We are not *entitled* to new(er) cars, new clothes, meals at nice restaurants, a large home and get-away vacations...none of those are "ours" nor are they essential to health, happiness, an appealing appearance, or a respectable lifestyle. Instead, those are purchasing decisions we tend to make with that veneer of entitlement, as tho'' they are part of a basic lifestyle. Some can afford to operate this way, but most of us can''t...tho'' truthfully, many of us do.
6. Accept - in fact, embrace! - the fact that we all must cruise within our own individual means. If someone is thinking they don''t know how others can afford to go cruising when they can''t, they''re likely picturing a size boat, number and type of boat systems, cruising route and/or ''style'' of cruising that, sad to say, just isn''t within their grasp. Young people take off with almost no savings. You''ll find boats of all sizes in the same interesting ports. Cruisers of some nationalities (the French are great examples) often place functionality, simple systems with hull/deck/rig integrity, and a simple lifestyle as the only thresholds to going cruising. This attitude tends to set more feasible norms for others and low-cost cruising becomes more widely supported as a result. Put another way, we all encourage a distorted view of cruising when encouraging air conditioners, water makers, massive electrical systems or "needing at least 40 feet" as prerequisites for a ''good'' cruising boat. (I''ll confess I tend to emphasize safety issues & equipment here to the extent that it may make some feel like they can''t afford such ''adequate'' safety, when in fact they may be thinking about *my* view of what''s adequate).

I''ve seen a LOT of individual cruising budgets over the last five years (SSCA Bulletins, L38 articles, numerous books by Beth Leonard, Liza Copeland, etc., and on many BB''s like this one. These budgets are all over the place! They reflect far more on the individual crews'' desire to be cruising, their creativity and ingenuity in dealing with issues other than throwing money at them, setting reasonable goals, and not being bothered when they''re the only ones in an anchorage that haven''t visited the local cantina or are on one of the smaller, simplier boats in the anchorage - and such budgets reflect far less on what is actually "required to go cruising".

Good luck to all of those who aspire to retire and/or go cruising in the absence of large pensions or investment portfolios. Trust in the fact that it can be done. You just need roll up your sleeves and get busy. <g>

Jack


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Hi Jack, thanks a lot for taking the time to respond.It''s very refreshing,and encouraging to hear from someone that addresses the "brass tacks" of what it takes to actually make the dream a reality.You''ve given myself,and I''m sure others much to ponder and research.Yesterday,I was a long way away from being able to cruise full time.Today,I''m another day closer.Happy New Years to all!!


----------



## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Stede,

Please check your personal message center and e-mail.

thank you.


----------



## GordMay (Dec 19, 2002)

Excellent, insightful thread!!!
My problem - I (mostly) agree with ALL the preceeding posts.

Our experience:
1992, we in our early 40''s:
Quit jobs, sold eveything and "just did it", intending a 2 year cruise, but hoping for longer - not financially prepared for longer.
1994:
Having spent the "kitty" began working summers, cruising winters.
2001:
Family circumstances require that we return(to former) home to help. Sell boat.
2003 we now in our mid-50''s:
Back to "career" working, wondering when we''ll get back afloat.

Of the MANY LESSONS LEARNED:
(1)More preparation would be better, but we would''nt have missed our decade afloat for anything.
We were ill-prepared (financially) to "get away", but made a very good "go" of it - and could have continued to. Our (summer) earning ability started slowly, but increased dramatically evey year.

(2) It''s very difficult to return to a career, after you''ve been away any significant time. Your skills & contacts become "stale".

We encourage your preparation, but suggest that there''s never enough - so at some time you''ve "just gotta go".,
Regards,
Gord May


----------



## NoahsCaya (Mar 28, 2003)

Bob-M,
I am sorry you feel it necessacary to say that the one''s who just sell it all and go are unrealistic fools.
I knew the stock market was going to tank for years before it did! Any idiot could see that coming. Unfortunately, I have been out of work for almost a year now. The economy sucks, it isn''t getting better, no-one is spending money, no-one is hiring, they are shipping all our jobs off to India and after giving the corporate world everything I had, they just toss us aside like lint on their big polished mahagony desktops.
Well, I am sick of it. I refuse to try to work my butt off to make some corporate giant rich so that they can lay-off eveyone on a whim (god forbid the executives take a paycut or the stock price dips a little). The longer I stay here, trying to work and save money, the more money it costs to live and work. If my sailing only lasts a year or two, who cares. The boat is paid for and I am young and have lots of time. (sorry for the little rant)
I generally agree with a lot of your advise but I also believe that most people, Americans especially, are too scared to make a decision on their own, that is why you keep seeing the same question being asked over and over and over, sometimes by the same people. And that, unfortunately, is not a good quality for anyone in a self-sufficient situation. You have to be able to make a decision on your own (an informed one though), commit to it and follow thru.
Preperation is a very good idea but don''t discount those who actually still have some adventure left in them (or don''t have much choice). I must say the stress of worrying about money is much greater to me than the stress of learning to sail or living aboard or even being lost at sea.
Not everyone visiting here is a 40-50 y.o. professional with $50K+ in the bank. Some of us low-lifes are just trying to make it to some dream the best way we know how. For me it means buying a boat, selling everything I have (I have a ton of stuff), and moving aboard. Better to go broke in a beautiful place doing something I love than to do it here in the middle of the concrete jungle while trying to make somebody else rich. And as for health insurance, I have NEVER used it and since I lost my job, I haven''t had it anyway. So how is it different when sailing? I have been to third world countries, and it is MUCH, much, much, much cheaper to get medical attention there. Did I mention how much cheaper it is? The amount of money I spent on insurance last year alone would pay all of my doctors bills for the last 10 years of my life! (I never go to the doctor) Granted, it is nice to have, unfortunately for me it is now filed in the "niceties" catagory and not "necessary".

my 2¢


----------



## BigRed56 (May 27, 2001)

Ahoy Stede, The Pirate of Pine Island has seen your side of life and though it (life) can through you some curves keep at it. I''ve spent nearly two years just trying to get the boat ready and away from the dock and I keep getting waylaid by one thing or another. I personally have had to battle a demon or two and health can be a real issue. I however would rather spend my time in poor health doing what Iam doing . Sailing is the reason for living and nothing can take that away from you, if you truly love it. As a Pirate I don''t worry about insurance too much in truth I''ll go down wit me ship one day wether the doctors get paid or not.


----------



## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Ahoy Big Red,
Thanks for your words of encouragement.I learned to sail in your waters,and you are a lucky pirate indeed to be there.I just returned from a trip single-handling my boat from Key West to the Marquesas and Dry Tortugas.It was a great trip which I enjoyed very much, but it also gave me the opportunity to learn some lessons about the cruising lifestyle. I talked with many sailors.Some that lived on small boats,others on BIG boats,and some that lived on boats that never went anywhere.I was curious as to why I saw so many boats both on the hard,and in the water that appeared to have just wasted away.One savvy fellow I met that had lived on a houseboat for 22 years in the same marina explained it to me.He said " people that have the dream of cruising will come along and buy an older "fixer upper" with the intention of straightening her out while living aboard.The boat costs for keeping her in the yard and repairs are always more than what they expect.Before long they can''t keep up with their payments,are bogged down with work,and end up having the boat seized by the yard for non-payment,or end up selling her.Before long,another buyer comes along with the same dream of cruising,and the cycle starts over again." He said he had seen the cycle repeated over and over again in the 22 years he had lived in the marina. What this information told me that pertained to my own plans is this: When looking for a boat to cruise with,don''t buy more boat than you can afford.You may be willing and able to do alot of the work yourself, but I believe putting together a realistic plan on how long it''ll take to put a boat in the drink,and an accurate estimate of repair costs is a vital one. Also, bigger may be better in some ways, but in costs bigger can be a killer to the average income sailor. It costs more to keep a bigger boat in a yard, maintenance costs seem to expand exponitially, and sometimes the reason for having the bigger boat is just a want,rather than a need.To sum it all up, I have changed my viewpoint to this : " A small boat sail, is better than a big boat stale." Cheers!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Stede,

My wife and I have finally set the date for July, 2005. We expect to be able to sell our house, buy a (probably small) cruiser and take off. We, however, expect that we will be able to come back to the US every year or so to work. It shouldn''t be too difficult for the two of us to earn 15 or 20k for another year or two on the water. And then we would be off again.

Right now having a firm date is the most important thing to us. I just had another birthday and have been having dreadful thoughts that I will be too old or too sick to cast off when the "right" time comes.

But about health care, I must say that many of the doctors in a few of the so-called third world countries have very good training. For example, I know people who vacation in Costa Rica and have all their dental care done there while on vacation(!) because it''s better quality and so much cheaper.

But, frankly, I have to say that I agree a bit with Big Red, if I get his meaning. I read an article recently that suggested that cruisers should carry automatic cardiac defibrillators with them just in case. But my feeling is that if I am so concerned with my safety that I feel the need for a defibrillator I shouldn''t be sailing (I should live next to a hospital, just in case). And if I were so ill that I really did need a defibrillator, I think I''d rather not take one.

In truth I actually don''t know what Blue Cross would or could do for us out by the Marshalls or off the coast of Argentina or halfway to the Azores. Would it really help?

Chas


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Setting the date is very important, even if it changes from time to time. We set our date 12 years ago and will retire (at 52) in November and set sail. We are only 1 1/2 years off the original plan.

Another suggestion on health care. Instead of buying a defiberlator go ahead and do a stress test and have a heart cath done. It is important to do a heart cath because stress tests are very unreliable, but a heart cath is almost 100% accurate. The cost is about the same and if you get an OK on the cath you know your chances of a heart attack are minimal.

I just had a cath done. Its a piece of cake and the peace of mind is fantastic.

Tony


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

*Impressive Thread...*

Forgive me for replying to a 2003 thread, but this is one of the most impressive series of posts on this issue I've seen. (The quality of writing and examples in older threads really impresses me here.)

What's fascinating is how sailing plans fluctuate according to one's age. On many sailing boards, I read interesting threads by those who have retired and have wonderful larger monos or Cats that they spend time and money preparing for their cruises, and cruising. Their financial futures are set, for the most part.

Other threads are by college students who are planning adventures, or living them, in $10k Albin Vegas or Contessas that they think they've made safe enough. I mean, who wouldn't want to live Tania Aebi's adventure. The cool thing is that they can escape for a few years, even sans health and boat insurance, and still return to enjoy pretty much any life they want to.

In the middle are 40-somethings (including me), with a range of decisions to make. If we're married and have kids, it's harder to decide that "cruising is more important than health insurance." Or that "the kids will pay for their own college, like we did." Meanwhile, our mortgage interest is our main tax deduction, the 401ks run like torpedos, as are the college savings accounts, the supplemental Roth IRAs, and maybe even a strategic growth boat account...

Here's the only question: is it true or untrue that things are more wild and unpredictable today than they were 20-30 years ago? We've read the three books by Herb Payson, for example, but it seems like the 70s (when he and other cruisers took off) had fewer "bombs" to worry about than today (skyrocketing health costs, crippling college costs, possible retirement needs, goldmine real estate returns/costs, etc.). I'd like to think not, but then I hear stories of retired parents living with their kids because of bad financial planning...

Again, the choices are always tough, and a lot can be said for seasonal cruising while one continues to work (or enabling a spouse and kids to cruise while the other "holds down the fort" financially). Lots of variables-- but this was a great thread.

Jim H


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jim,

I also found this thread recently providing good insight on the plusses and minusses of going now. I am 54 years young and lucky to be alive after Leukemia and a Bone Marrow Transplant some 7 years ago.

What I learned from that experience is that we only rent our lives on "long term" leases (some longer than others). The only thing we can really plan on is dying so the point is to be living every moment we can doing what our spirit tells us. I denied my inner voice as a corporate marketing VP and it nearly cost me my life at age 47. 

Yes, it does take money to cruise but desire and commitment may be more compelling ingredients. 

I am planning for our departure in 2007. It may only be 6 months at a time but I will take it....gladly.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Heron, congrats on your recovery. I hope you post about your plans for 2007 and how they progress. 

I know of two local couples (younger, late twenties and mid thirties), who just left well-paying and stable jobs and took off for open-ending cruising. One couple knows they only have the funds for one to two years, but they're going for it.

Another avenue I find encouraging for 40-somethings like myself is the idea of having enough to cruise for 2-5 years, but then planning to work summers or part time after that. (Maybe like your plan, if you're thinking 6 months at a time). It makes me tempted to formulate a six month contract for myself at my current job, but my wife may not like the plan since she may or may not enjoy being with the kids in Mexico or the S. Pacific while I work, or traveling back with the kids every year while I work. I think Latitude 38 calls this "commuter cruising."

As for the "big, scary things" that make us think we must work full-time until 68 years of age, I still feel many of them are illusions. For example, if I sell my house in one of the few housing areas that may not burst in terms of annual growth of price, I may never own another house like it in the same area. I wonder, though, if cruising won't open a world of opportunities for other places to live with housing prices that are not exclusionary. If we only think local options are real, we'll also be prisoners of what local inflation occurs. The more we make, the more it costs, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the post and we wish you well on your plans and cruising.

Jim H


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This thread is full of good stuff (keep going):

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3067


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jim,

It is very difficult to do but the way I have been able to realize my cruising dreams is to live as debt free as possible. After my illness, we had to downsize since I lost my job. Fortunately, we owned a small cottage on the coast of Maine (800 sqft) with no debt. I had to do some work to make it year round but since I was out of work, all I had to pay for was materials. My work progress was slow as I had been a "white collar" guy for all of my adult work history.

We sold the cars we had loans on and purchased decent used cars. Saved us a lot on payments, taxes and registration, insurance, etc.

I purchased a Westsail 32 that needed lots of cosmetic work. All other systems were updated including engine, sails and rigging, tanks, etc. One more winter of work and the vessel will look like it looked when launched in 1980.

We will not sell our cottage for the reasons you described in your last post. We don't want to box us out of ever coming back on land. We will rent the place if we have to so that it can pay for itself on taxes and upkeep. We know if we sell it, we may not be able to afford it again. Even if we don't come back here to live permanently, the equity we have can be used to purchase elsewhere if we fall in love with a different area.

You last comment about retireing at age 68 is a tough one. I don't have an answer for your life some 20+ years from now. The problem of not realizing your dream is that it becomes huge regrets when and if you reach 68. What I have learned the most through my fight for life is that living is only "today". Sure there may be many tomorrows but those are gifts not yet realized. 

You never know what can come to you unless you put yourself out there. Lin & Larry Pardey never looked back in their decision to cruise and made a pretty good living at it. Sure, they are an exception... or are they?

Good luck on your path.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

SV:HERON said:


> We will not sell our cottage for the reasons you described in your last post. We don't want to box us out of ever coming back on land. We will rent the place if we have to so that it can pay for itself on taxes and upkeep.


I'm envious of you on this point-- we have a 2500 foot house in a nice area. Almost too nice to rent in, we don't own it outright, and probably too much house to rent as absent landlords. I've considered cashing out our place to buy a 1000 ft house to rent when we're gone, but my real estate agent would argue that any 2 bedroom is going to be hard to move in the future in our area.

One idea we have is to cash out and cruise, but retain about $100k for our re-entry later on (house downpayment, furniture, etc.). Of couse, that fund could be used elsewhere if we decided we liked another state or country.

We've also cut back on a lot of expenses, like you have, but we still keep a 27 footer for sailing locally. If we didn't have two kids, we'd consider a Westsail-- I just read your "race report" over on SSCA, and it sounds like you had a good time. It was also interesting to read how you handle the headsail now.

Have fun!

Jim H


----------



## LWinters (Nov 16, 2006)

*I'd rather roll the dice than not play at all....*

It's been really interesting reading the postings from this forum. I've got to say that the viewpoints of many indicating that those who sail with the "go small, go now" attitude are doomed to failure scare me. I got bit by the bug about 5 years ago. That's when I started learning to sail, saving, and reading everything I could on boats. I am now 30, purchased an Allied Mistress 3 weeks ago, and am planning on casting off around Jan of 2008.

The things I don't know about sailing could fill a library. The number of reasons I shouldn't go probably outnumber the reasons I should go 10 to 1. My boat is older but structurally sound. The sails are worn, but well stitched. The Westerbeke 4-108 has 8700 hours, but doesn't smoke. Regardless, I am leaving an excellent paying job with no guarantee of "re-entry" at anywhere near the same level. Henry Ford said "If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability." I guess I am counting on the knowledge and ability I have now combined with the experience and knowledge I will gain on the trip to create a more rich and well lived life than I could achieve otherwise. Not to mention carry me across the oceans.

I've put around 75K in the bank and hope to put another 30 or so in by the end of 2007. I'll put around 25K into the boat to bring it up to date, pay it off before I go, sail without boat or medical insurance, and see how far I can get with ~ 50K in the cruising kitty. I am betting 2 - 4 years baring major catastrophe. Past that, I don't dare to plan. I am not expecting to come back the same person I am now. Nor do I expect to be able to rejoin the corporate world I am now in.

In terms of the question, "What does it take to go cruising?" I can only think of one correct answer. You have to make the decision to go. Once that is done, everything else will fall into place.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

LWinters... I guess I am one of those who is not of the "go now" school of thought BUT only as it applies to MY cruising desires to do it with a certain amount of comfort and to NEVER have to work again. That took a lot of time and work etc. and it was the right decision for us. 
Your vision of a modest vessel and a different lifestyle and a few years of cruising is ENTIRELY realistic and achievable from what you describe. I am sure you will have a blast and a great adventure. The tough part will not be the leaving...it will be the re-entry. Good luck!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Wanderer



A Quote From Sterling Hayden's Book, Wanderer


To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... cruising it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of security. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.


What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade.


The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.


Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

not hayden again....


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

God...if I read that Sterling Hayden stuff one more time I'm gonna puke! Not exactly the guy I'd pattern my life after.


----------



## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Yep, nothing fundamentallyh wrong with his description of actual needs but...aaarghpuke! Really thinks he is some kind of ascetic hero doesn't he. Hair shirts and all that! Let's all go take the matresses off our bunks too!


----------



## LWinters (Nov 16, 2006)

*The hypocrisy of Sterling Hayden*

Yeah, most people seem to forget that the boat Sterling made his trip to Tahiti on was purchased by the movie company for signing on to do a movie. Not to mention he felt conflicted about the amount of pay he pulled down for each film and believed himself a bit of a sell out.

I'll be the first to say that unless you come from a wealthy background, even a three year trip like I am working on takes some years of preparation. Even with careful planning, the number of things that can and will go wrong will make each voyage an adventure unto itself.

I dread most the thought of having to return to the grind after making even a brief escape into the cruising life. However, not knowing that life yet, and knowing I no longer care for the one I have is driving me to leave now instead of later. Only time can tell me if this will be the best decision for me.


----------



## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

Got to agree with Bob, a plan is the best way to go.. when we first started thinking about cruising, it took us a couple years to get it off the ground.. 
But we laid out our plans to where we wanted to be in two years and then started counting backwards to where we would be in a year and then six months and all the way down to where we wanted to be in one week.
For us it was a little different.. we were at that point in ourlives where its time to sellthe house and build our retirement home on property we owned. we sold it all and bought our dream boat.. A Beneteau First 42..
Sold the Catalina 22 we had and moved aboard. 
Our first time out, was for two years, and the result was we fell in love with the lifestyle..
Enough that we came back to re-organize so we can stay out longer..
My wife is in sales and I was a certifited welder.... so now after a little schooling, I'm a ICC BUILDING INSPECTOR with prospects around the word.
We're both advanced Photographers with the ability to sell our products and my wife is a seamstress....... We have saved a good amount of money, and you'd be supprised how fast you can save when you live on your boat and both parties work.. so we're planning on sailing for a while and working for awhile. and when you have to work while your out, it seems the money goes a little further.. you dont eat out as much and you chose to anchor out instead of finding a marina. 
And we're leaving again just after Christmas for Mexico, the south Pacific and the lands down under...
We're looking to stay out again for two to three years but who knows........By the way, My wife and I are both 54 years of age...
R&R on R3


----------



## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

How far does cruising have to go? Can one not just move to the coast, get a job and a boat and cruise locally on long weekends and summer vacations. I cruise for weeks at a time during the summer in the Pacific Northwest but I am relegated by seasons (it is snowing here and below zero) and can only sail during late spring and summer. Still, a cruising couple can work and cruise in a more southern locale. Does cruising have to be full time? Why not have your cake and eat it too, cruise for part of the year and work the rest. I like sailing as much as the next person but I have too many land related obligations to go world cruising so the world stuff will have to take the form of various charters around the world and keep my cuurent boat for local cruising.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree with the last post. I know people who pilot their own small planes as a hobby, but don't live on them day and night, but enjoy the experience from time to time. The sailing magazines seem to be devoted to selling the idea that you must sell everything and drop out of society to enjoy the sailing experience.


----------



## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I agree that it is not necessary to drop everything when taking up a "cruising lifestyle". I've been fortunate enough to be able to finagle a way to work for 1-2 months, then sail for 2-3 and then repeat ad nauseam. Not only will that pay the bills but it gives me enough time to plan long passages with respites inbetween and have large portions of a circumnavigation paid for. The best of both worlds.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Full time vs Part time Cruising*

Maybe it's just our personalities but my fiancé and I really needed to submerge ourselves in the cruising lifestyle in order to fully escape the "real world" or "the Land of Stuff" as we refer to it now. We were both workaholics and even after a month or two off I would still go back to work and pick up right where I left off.

Now I'm not suggesting everyone go out sell all their stuff and sail off into the sunset. It takes a huge commitment, not only to yourself to to your significant other. We did sell everything and now our only extra expenses are insurance (boat and health); we have to eat no matter where we are. One of the problems with part-time cruising is that you still have to maintain sufficient stuff that you can easily return to, Apartment or house, car, plus all the expenses associated with them. Then you need a slip or place to store the boat etc; for us this limits our options and flexibility. We left we I was 36 and my fiancé was 29. The biggest issue for us is returning to the land of stuff when we want to start a family. The whole word is changing so fast. We just reactivated our cell phone since we arrived in Australia (for cyclone season) and I hung up on the first three people that called because I forgot how to use the phone (yeah I know press the green button instead of the red). But that's what I mean about real submersion in the cruising life; your find out what's real and important, and forget about all other stuff.

The great thing about the states is we have two coasts with excellent testing grounds, Mexico and the Caribbean. Set a goal to try it for a year, then return to stay, if it wasn't what you expected, or to sell it all and dive in. I'd say it took me six months to really settle into the lifestyle and I'm a full cruising convert. I do know people who had a hard time, they needed work and the focus it provides. Others missed the friends and family contact; and some missed watching their grand children grow. It's such a personal thing. The South Pacific is amazing and we love it, but others find it too raw, issolated and slow for their liking.

My financial adviser (yeah it sounds nice and fluffy but we don't really have that much $$) says I should keep cruising.. I can't afford to come home. We spend about $1K a month.

Good luck to all those that are dreaming about it, it is worth every second of it.

Chris

ps. I came to this topic based on our real life message in the bottle experiment when we first crossed the equator on the way to the Marquesas.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chris/KT-

I like your financial adviser's advice...


----------



## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I keep trying to tell my wife how much cheaper it would be to cruise......is there anyone who knows a foolproof plan that would convince her?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SouthernCross-

Get the book Changing Course, by Debra Kantrell. Read it, and then give it to her...


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Good advice. Beth Leonard's The Voyager's Handbook Amazon.com: The Voyager's Handbook: Books: Beth A. Leonard has "real-life" scenarios that show the costs of running different boats on different budgets, on the hook vs. at the marina, etc. It's a very good general information book that dovetails nicely between technical guides like Nigel Calder's compendia and Rousmaniere's Annapolis Book of Sailing. Throw in Brion Toss's "Riggers" book and you've got in four large format volumes the nucleus of a great onboard reference library.

Of course, I personally am unlikely to stop there...heh...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

Just be aware that Beth Leonard's book has just been released in a 2nd edition... I'd add the Boater's Bowditch to that group of books, as it is a version of Bowditch's written specifically for the small craft navigator.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Billabong...welcome aboard! Nice to have some Pacific cruising experience here as we are a bit short of that. Hope to hear more from you about your experiences.
*************
BTW...anyone planning on cruising should read their 100's of tips link......some great stuff there!


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Valiente-
> 
> Just be aware that Beth Leonard's book has just been released in a 2nd edition... I'd add the Boater's Bowditch to that group of books, as it is a version of Bowditch's written specifically for the small craft navigator.


Yes, that's the (new) one I have...good reading! I second the Bowditch, although there's good stuff even in yard sale Dutton's and Chapman's of years past, if you ignore the latest electronics marvel, the breadbox sized RDF!


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

The Boater's Boditch can be had on Amazon used for under 4 bucks.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

southerncross31 said:


> is there anyone who knows a foolproof plan that would convince her?


I'm not sure that anything is fool proof but make a list of all the things you currently spend money on and then mark off the expenses that will go away when you are gone (it's a huge list). Then make a list of the extra stuff you'll spend while cruising; flights home (including boat storage while gone), higher communication costs, souvenirs etc. The good thing about about cruising is that you have a lot of say in what you chose to spend your money on, assuming your boat is in good shape. At the pure minimum you've got to eat and occasionally you need to pay port fees etc but it can be incredibly cheap, the wind is free. We did a massive re-fit while we were still working and filled the boat with spares, so most of the boat maintenance expenses are still low going into our fourth season (we've had to haul and paint the bottom after three years which was less than $1000 and we had Fijian laborers do most of the sanding because it was so cheep). One season we used 55 gallons of fuel the entire season, and in Kiribati we didn't spend a dime for three months.

Our biggest expenses occur when we return to the "land of stuff"; New Zealand or Australia for cyclone season or back to the states for a visit (once so far). We like to land travel, but we usually do it on the cheap; like a van with a bed in the back (it sure makes the boat feel huge when we return). $$ flies out the window and our budget of $1000 a month usually doubles. In NZ pile moorings were $200 a month so we traveled around by van as much as we could and saw the entire country (9000 miles of driving). In Australia slips are $600 a month, so we cruised for three months before heading off on our land based trip for a only five weeks. In Majuro in the Marshall Islands we left the boat on a mooring ball that cost us $60 a month and flew home.

Yes food can be a little more expensive in the islands but you can also go native and eat like the locals. They make $6 a day and manage to survive!! In some places eating out can be very expensive so we usually eat on the boat.. We LOVE to fish so food costs go down when we are catching lots of fish. We know people who spent 3 or 4 times out budget eating out and having coffee out every chance they got.. We also know people who get by with half that!! You'll amaze yourself on how little you can get by on once you really get into the lifestyle. You shift for "stuff" to experiences; and trust me everyday is an experience out here and most of them are free!!

Even though I say we have a budget we try not to be too strict. We have a fun fund we dip into whenever we feel like it but we know it's a balance between everything now, and a shorter trip; or a little bit of self control (while still having "everything" we really want) and a longer trip.

After you've done all the math, throw it all away and realize that it is a once in a lifetime experience that really is PRICELESS. Oh, the final thing that convinced my finance (who had minimal sailing experience when we left) was that she wouldn't have to work while we were cruising.. that took about a second of thought before she was in!!

Good luck and get out here.. you'll kick yourself for every minute you "wasted" at home once you realize what it's like.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

welll said chris.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Budgeting has to be averaged out over the life of the voyage. Several cruiser blogs highlight this variability in monthly outlay, and it seems for many to fall into spending more in the first six months as gear you thought was up to scratch in fact isn't, and until you get far enough away from your home country to avoid the temptation of marinas, visits back to your home town, and nights ashore in restaurants.

The pattern then shows a general decline as people become more able to exist on the hook and/or go to places where money is simply harder to spend.

There's usually a spending spree at 18-24 months as sails are replaced or repaired, and stuff like cooling pumps, heat exchangers and injectors require service. There's also an interesting point where you finally run out of "spares from home" and realize that 20 Racor and spin-on oil filters did not in fact constitute a lifetime supply.

After that, and barring major mishaps, the spending gets more predictable and regular, it seems.

I estimate we can cruise comfortably on $25,000 Canadian/year, which is about $21,000 U.S. or 16,000 Euros. This factors in one haul-out and winter storage in five years, plus a more or less complete boat repaint (it's steel), and a potential rigging refreshing. This doesn't include the approximately $30,000 in upgrades we'll be putting into the boat before we leave.

While there are more variables than on land, I've run my own business for years now and am used to budgeting. Also, while I tend to buy the best gear I can afford, I am otherwise parsimonious with money...I'd rather sail longer and cheaper! 

Now, if my plan for renting out the house works out, we'll break even if I can write about six articles per year...


----------



## donrr1 (Oct 25, 2002)

Our goal is to be on the water at least half of the year. Here's the way we're going about it....

I have work experience in Restaurant and Auto sales. Both of these jobs are relatively easy to find anywhere in the states when we are on the hard. My partner retires in 2 years from government service providing us with benefits and substantial income.

We decided to get an older boat with a sound hull and rig and simply replace EVERY system. We bought a 1969 Morgan 41' C/B Ketch with staysail stay in December 2006 for $17k. It's a full keeled boat which in its day was a CCA racer/cruiser. The hull and rigging were inspected by a surveyor named Jack Horner (whom I recommend highly). He was very impressed with the condition of the hull and made many recomendations about the rigging upgrades. I wanted to know that I had a stable platform to build on, I do. I am now living on the boat and performing a total refit as I do so. I have 3 years to git er done. The funding for the refit is being provided by my full time salary and some savings. I still have a garage with stuff that I am in the process of distributing until it is gone. My current expenses for living are 266.00 per month slip fees (no extra for land storage in winter), approx 40.00 per mo in electricity, 139.00 for the garage, 43.00 cell phone, 66.00 for liability on boat, 230.00 car and insurance. A grand total of 784.00 per month. 

I am figuring about $60k will be needed to refurbish and upgrade the boat. There will be no borrowing for any of the work and I am performing most, if not all, of the labor. After my partner retires in 2 years, we plan on cruising the Chesapeake for one season to gain a firm footing and shakedown the boat. At which time we will have no debt, enough savings to purchase a house after cruising and enough income (about 2800.00 per mo) to comfortably cruise on. The only issue is our medical benefits will be limited to US territories. If we decide to venture away, we will cross that bridge as best we can.

My background includes being a Machinist Mate in the USN, 3 years of tech school for carpentry and four years experience as a builder, 2 yr computer science degree (I'm hip on electronics). So for me, I have the ability to refit the boat and hopefully do it right. I have no fear of it because I have all of you friends here on Sailnet to help me    ( as well as all of the wonderful books I have collected  )

Don


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don, sounds like you've got a good start on being your own boatyard...


----------



## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Thanks for the tips SV.....I can only imagine how great of an experience you are having. I am going to start by getting my kids sooo hooked on sailing that they will be bugging my wife to go. Then there will be 3 against one in my favor  My frigin property taxes alone are now 600$ a month. I figure we could cut our living expenses in half by cruising. And if i don't have the laptop with us, i can keep my wife away from e-bay! That will save us another 600 a month. 
I have always wanted to raise my kids on a boat....even before i had them . I only wish now that i had made sure my wife was more into it before! I just don't understand why anyone would want to live a boring hum drum life on land.....taking the kids to school, going to work, working on the house...it is all so damn monotonous (MS) i want to tear my hair out. I want my kids to see the world and learn and grow through experiences with other cultures. As my uncle put it (a cruiser of years who has been through 3 wifes before he found one that stuck around on the boat)....your trapped!
The difference is that he leaves his kid with his ex...i can't be away from my kids for more than 1 night without getting bummed out, so it's all or nothing for me.


----------



## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Sorry for the double post, but there is a question i have for those of you with more knowledge than me.......it's off topic too...but I can't post new threads for some reason so.......has anyone used the Standard Horizon chartplotters? If so how do they compare to the others? They take c-map cards and i'm just wondering how good they are. I really appreciate any help.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SC31-

While I've got zip experience with the SH chartplotters, they do make pretty good gear, at least their VHF gear is very solid.

If you're having trouble with the missus.... you might want to get and read Debra Kantrell's Changing Course, and then give it to her... it is written specifically for women whose husbands want them to go cruising and give up life ashore...* It is imperative that you read it first...* so you know the issues that are raised and what Kantrell's response to them are... as well as so you can think about those issues.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SC31

You need to be in the directory for the sub forum you want to start the thread in. Then click on the forum tools button and you'll get an option for start a thread in the drop down menu.

Charlie


----------



## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Thanks SD, I will pick it up asap. SH now has a 7" chartplotter (waas) combined with a vhf...so all you have to do is send a distress message and your gps position is available. I have never owned a chartplotter before and want to make sure i buy the right one.
Charlie....all i can do is visit the sailnet homepage and view most recent posts. All other features are unavailable to me. Otherwise i wouldn't have wasted everyones time by asking here...


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Are you PC or Mac, and what browser are you using?


----------

