# Beefing Up A Catalina 36 For Bluewater



## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

I have read the many threads which advise against taking a Catalina across oceans. I am wondering, is there NOTHING that can be done to beef up these boats to handle bluewater? Is it simply the design? I'm thinking of things like backing plates behind all deck-mounted equipment, oversized rigging, etc. The problem is that I love my Catalina 36 and would like to think of it as my last boat no matter where I decide to go. Is there a way to make it strong enough? My flame suit is on. Let me have it.

Mike


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

I read about a guy who beefed up a Catalina 30 and did a circumnavigation. No reason it cannot be done in a Catalina 36. If I recall, it look lots of work and money. Adding some luck would be good too.


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

Have you read the story about the guy who tried to sale his Catalina from California to Hawaii with 3 crew. I think it was a 36. It will give you some idea of what can break or otherwise go wrong.

I do not have a link readily available but someone here will.

Gary


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Gary M said:


> Have you read the story about the guy who tried to sale his Catalina from California to Hawaii with 3 crew. I think it was a 36. It will give you some idea of what can break or otherwise go wrong.
> 
> I do not have a link readily available but someone here will.
> 
> Gary


That's right Gary, it was a C36. I like these boats a lot, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go extended bluewater in one. Of course, I tend toward the conservative side.

Catalina 36 Rescue


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Gary M said:


> Have you read the story about the guy who tried to sale his Catalina from California to Hawaii with 3 crew. I think it was a 36. It will give you some idea of what can break or otherwise go wrong.
> 
> I do not have a link readily available but someone here will.
> 
> Gary


Did ya' hear about the guy that raced his C36 in the 2007 Transpac (Same one as the movie Morning Light)and finished second in his class? Search on You Tube for videos of the preparation and the race. The boat looks pretty stock to me.

Crew, Preparation and luck are what separates success and failure. I've read the account you mention, at its pretty apparent that guy had no clue what shape his boat was in and hadn't prepared for foreseeable contingencies. I think if you look into Lady Liberty you'll see the other side of the coin.

That said I personally would not attempt an ocean crossing on my C36. It is simply not engineered for the condtions one could concievably encounter far off shore.

With proper preparation though, I'd have few qualms taking the boat outside on long coastal passages where I could get myself to shore in a day (or two at most) if I didn't like how the weather was shaping up.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Having owned a C-36 these are some areas I would have concern over for serious off shore work..
*
Cabinetry:* It should be reinforced and held in place by more than just a few screws. Having been dropped of a wave in a very heavy 50 footer I have comfort in saying that the majority of the cabinetry would have been ripped out by the roots on a C-36 in that situation. It shattered brass hinges and positive locking clasps. The entire galley counter comes to mind in this situation. Imagine that thing landing on you in a roll.

*Positive Locking Cabinets:* Install positive locking hasps on all drawers and cabinets. Those cheesy ball bearing clasps have even opened on me in mild coastal stuff and spilled contents.

*Water:* The tanks need to be secured in a much more robust fashion than they are. Ask yourself where all that water in that tank would go in a roll over. What would stop that tank from breaking free?

*Ports:* If your boat has the polycarbonate dead lights they should be reinforced and held to the vessel with more than just silicone.

*Fuel:* See above on water. The 36 tanks, at least in the MK I's, are not held in by much at all and this is a very poor design for any serious off shore work...
*
Batteries:* This is a given and they should always be well secured.

*Cockpit:* Bigger drainage and perhaps the addition of a bridge deck to reduce volume unless you have a walk through transom model.

*Water heater:* Should also have additional straps or tie rods holding it down besides the base plate screws. Those shelves the heaters sit on tend to get damp and moist and the screws could rip out in rough weather.

*Bilge pumps:* Manual and multiple electrics with large capacity.
*
Drop Boards/sliding hatch:* This opening is far to wide for my comfort in an ocean storm. Straight sided drop boards can't float free nearly as easily as tapered ones can.. Loosing the drop boards on a C-36 in rough weather could be life vs. death...
*
Bulkheads:* The C-36 has screwed in bulkheads that flex, creak and move in rough weather. Most all boats built for off shore work have glassed in bulkheads that are far more robust. I delivered a Hunter, in somewhat rough conditions, that had some serious movement of interior furniture and bulkheads, doors would no longer close etc.. The owner was none to happy about it and tried to not pay me. This Hunter also used screwed in bulkheads. This was a coastal delivery in max four foot seas and max of 40 knot winds..

*Rudder:* This is a simple and efficient design for coastal sailing but the rudder stock is hollow and the design incorporates no rudder bearings which in turn increases the loads on all associated steering gear when in heavy weather loading. Older MK I's need to have the quadrant pully's beefed up.

*Autopilot Self Steering:* You'll want a below deck pilot and self steering. The transom might need some reinforcement to install a steering vane.

*Rig:* While the stays are generally sized well enough I don't like the chain plate attachments to a "floating" bulkhead and would not feel comfortable with that in severe weather off shore. Just read the forums and you'll see how much trouble owners of Catalina's have keeping chain plates from leaking. This is mostly due to the movement between hull, deck and bulkheads. My 79 CS-36 chain plates have never leaked most likely because there is minimal movement at the chain plate deck interface for a sealant to fail.. The chain plates on my 2005 310 were leaking by 2006 and this is simply unacceptable..
*
Hull/deck joint:* While the C-36 is through bolted mine was only through bolted about every 14-18", if my memory serves me correctly. Even my 2005 310 used alternating screws and bolts and was not totally through bolted. I would want to though bolt it at every penetration for my own personal comfort level.
*
Lee Cloths:* You will eventually need to get sleep.

*Hand Holds:* The cabin needs more and better placement.

*Tankage:* Needs more fuel & water.
*
Storage:* Needs more secure & closed storage. Where would all your stuff wind up in a knock down.
*
Drogue:* I would NOT trust the stern cleats on the C-36 to support a drogue and would want to seriously beef these attachments points and the cleats up. In a good blow you'll want to run off in a C-36 to not overly stress the boat. To do this you'll need a good drogue like the Jordan or to trail some serious warps.

The C-36 could do what you want with a good weather window but do keep in mind that her motion in a sea is not all that comfortable and she tends to get bounced around due to her light displacement and her relatively flat bottom sections combined with a wide beam. The C-36 has a much better motion in a sea than the C-30 or C-310 but still not what I'd want under me in 15+ seas and 45+ knots... I've owned all three, and sailed them in similar rough weather conditions, so I feel qualified to make these assessments. That being said I still would not choose a C-36 for extended blue water voyaging but it is an awesome boat for coastal cruising just as all the Catalina's are.

Even my 2005 Catalina had some very serious and disconcerting issues with bulkhead movement and the bulkheads were literally bending and distorting, due to movement, where they met the hull in a few areas. This was causing visible hard spots on the exterior hull. Catalina made good but it still does not give me the warm and fuzzies for an ocean crossing and the C-36 bulkheads are built the same way.

The number one most important aspect of extended ocean crossings is the Captain and he/she is the MOST important safety consideration. Before you set out do yourself a favor and head out into the bay on those days when it's blowing 30+, and turning up a good sea, and get yourself some practice so you'll understand how your boat handles. Having owned a C-36, C-30 and a C-310 these are some areas I would have concern over for any serious off shore work. I know I forgot a few but I need to get back to work...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> Having owned a C-36 these are some areas I would have concern over for serious off shore work..
> *
> Cabinetry:* It should be reinforced and held in place by more than just a few screws. Having been dropped of a wave in a very heavy 50 footer I have comfort in saying that the majority of the cabinetry would have been ripped out by the roots on a C-36 in that situation. It shattered brass hinges and positive locking clasps. The entire galley counter comes to mind in this situation. Imagine that thing landing on you in a roll.
> 
> ...


Good writeup Main, as usual.

I am quite familiar with that boat too. I am not sure some of the things that Maine listed would be critical for me, but the one key issue with that boat which has always concerned me was the bilge depth - which you cannot change. On a long tack you might have water coming up through the boards. You can fix this by running some suction lines port and starboard so that it can pull from where the water collects.

I love the 36 too. She is a fun boat to sail and comfortable down below. SHe is actually an older design and has been dropped from the Catalina line, which I feel is a shame. I will say that there are a lot of 36's in the carribean where people are living aboard them, and I recally another couple that has taken theirs across to Europe. It can be done, but it will take more preparation, alterations, and luck then might be necessary in say, a larger Catalina or other brand boat.

Now, if offshore to you is the carribean, no problem. I believe the boat was made for that and it would be fine.

Good luck with it all. I can understand why you love her!

- CD


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> Having owned a C-36 these are some areas I would have concern over for serious off shore work..
> *
> Cabinetry:* It should be reinforced and held in place by more than just a few screws. Having been dropped of a wave in a very heavy 50 footer I have comfort in saying that the majority of the cabinetry would have been ripped out by the roots on a C-36 in that situation. It shattered brass hinges and positive locking clasps. The entire galley counter comes to mind in this situation. Imagine that thing landing on you in a roll.
> 
> ...


An incredibly detailed and thoughtful (as well as thought PROVOKING) response. Thank you very much, that was just what I was looking for. You presented several items I hadn't really thought of having not "been out there". After imagining my boat upside down and dropping 30' off a wave, I'm beginning to wonder if I am not the weak link in this scenario.:laugher

Mike


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

MikeinLA said:


> An incredibly detailed and thoughtful (as well as thought PROVOKING) response. Thank you very much, that was just what I was looking for. You presented several items I hadn't really thought of having not "been out there". After imagining my boat upside down and dropping 30' off a wave, I'm beginning to wonder if I am not the weak link in this scenario.:laugher
> 
> Mike


The crew usually is the weakest link.


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## jgeissinger (Feb 25, 2002)

Lady Liberty, out of Long Beach, I believe, was the C36 that did the 2007 Transpac. Remember, they didn't just sail 2600 miles to Hawaii, they raced. Then they sailed more miles back. You might be able to research that specific boat for more details.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

Hmmm....this is interesting.

1989 Catalina Custom Built Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Mike


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

That IS interesting.

But I'm not sure converting a boat in this manner makes a lot of sense -- unless there's something about the Catalina 36 that you can't resist.

Let's see: add bowsprit with bob and whisker stays, mount chainplates and shrouds outboard on hull, add raised bulwarks, etc etc. There are plenty of boats on which these features already exist.

With an asking price of $50K, it's hard to imagine that they ar egetting much of their "investment" back. Then again, they did get to sail it around the world and now it could represent a good value for the next owner.

But I wonder how or if they addressed the interior cabinetry and other concerns that Mainesail mentioned?


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

JohnRPollard said:


> That IS interesting.
> 
> But I'm not sure converting a boat in this manner makes a lot of sense -- unless there's something about the Catalina 36 that you can't resist.
> 
> ...


Srsly. For $50k, why not buy a Moody 36 or Rival 34 or Nicholson and just go sailing? The world is full of older, lonely, proven ocean sailboats that would happily take you anywhere on earth. Why make a perfectly good Catalina sad by asking it to do something it wasn't designed for? Horses for courses.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> That IS interesting.
> 
> But I'm not sure converting a boat in this manner makes a lot of sense -- unless there's something about the Catalina 36 that you can't resist.
> 
> ...


John - Yes, Mainesail's comments were a real eye-opener. Now I want YOUR boat instead. LOL. (actually, I've always loved the Dana & 31 PSC, so I'm not really kidding).

Mike


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Here's the link mentioned above.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe

Food for thought.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

After retabbing all the bulkheads, tanks, and interior furniture to the hull, as has already been suggested, you might also want to consider removing the deck and refastening it along its entire length to an inward-turning flange with bolts through a metal toerail on the outside with backing plates on the inside. If you fiberglass over the joint after doing that, it will be less likely to leak. To keep the hull and topsides from oilcanning (flexing which ends up causing stress fractures in unsupported panels) you may also want to add ribs inside the hull to reinforce the large flat areas that the C36 has, which are particularly susceptible to oilcanning. The deck could probably use some of these reinforcing ribs too, though it might reduce headroom. All told, there are less expensive and easier ways to end up with a suitable boat for what you want to do.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

paulk said:


> After retabbing all the bulkheads, tanks, and interior furniture to the hull, as has already been suggested, you might also want to consider removing the deck and refastening it along its entire length to an inward-turning flange with bolts through a metal toerail on the outside with backing plates on the inside. If you fiberglass over the joint after doing that, it will be less likely to leak. To keep the hull and topsides from oilcanning (flexing which ends up causing stress fractures in unsupported panels) you may also want to add ribs inside the hull to reinforce the large flat areas that the C36 has, which are particularly susceptible to oilcanning. The deck could probably use some of these reinforcing ribs too, though it might reduce headroom. All told, there are less expensive and easier ways to end up with a suitable boat for what you want to do.


Ex-actly. Catalina makes spectacular boats for coastal cruising, family fun, and entertaining at dockside or mooring. Better cockpit tables or cupholders you will not find. If that describes 98% of your sailboat time, the C36 is your best selection. But IF true bluewater is the goal -- meaning 40 days of squalls and heavy swell and no land within three thousand miles -- why strip a boat to the very hull, re-engineer that, then rebuild all components piece by piece from there, when there are so many purpose-built craft available? If I had $50,000 to spend, I'd put it HERE. Contessa 35.


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## valliel (Aug 1, 2000)

Well, 
First of all sorry for my poor english, but I am spanish. I own a C-36 since 1991. We have sail together around 50.000.- nm. Two Atlantic crossings and a lot of single-handed sailing and racing. I really do NOT agreed with those saying the C-36 is not a blue water boat. Why? Those small details mentioned, are really peanuts. 
My boatm already 20 years old, is structurally sound and in perfect conditions.
Ready to answer any question you have about my experience with a C-36.
Best regards to all.

Eladio


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## larrybme (Nov 2, 2011)

I know this is an older post, but I need to post a few things and need the practice writing. So....
I am not one for mncing words or holding back my opinions.
40 days of squalls and 3000 miles from land. Where have you been sailing? Or have you been sailing. There is no place on earth 3000 miles from land. 
40 days of squalls and heavy swell. Mars or Venus, maybe Jupiter. But then you contend with the oxygen and temperature problems. No captain or crew will survive 40 days of squalls and heavy swells, the Catalina 36 may, but crew will long be dead or recued.
Yes the Catalina 36 has its quirks, weaknesses and draw backs. Compare one of equal age to any manufactured boat and you will find as many, if not more problems of equally, if not more so, issues do contend with for taking one offshore.
Of any procuction sailboat still in production or not, Catalinas have the least issues and the most content owners. Many Catalina owners have stayed with Catalina. Why would you think Catalina is still in business?
Oil canning?? Contessas are prone to oil canning, not Catalinas. At least that is what I have come up with in my extensive research of just about every boat manyfacturer. 
What are my references you ask? My wife and I sailed a 30' Tartan from SF to PV and back taking a year and a half. However never more than 150 miles off shore. If you have been out of protected waters, you will know that wind, swell and squalls are stronger, more dangerous and more likely the closer to land you are. Thus the biggest to a Catalina 36 is being close to land, either making port or coast hugging. Don't be lulled into compacency because you think the coastguard is near or your are a day out. A serious health problem, or boat problem can get you in the water very quickly and if survival depends on rescue, be prepared to meet your maker.
Many stories from circumnavigators repeat the same if not similar observations. The strongest winds, currents and biggest swells were incountered off the WA, OR or CA coast. We experienced 40 knot wind, with much stronger gusts and mixed breaknigswells that we could have put two of our 30 footers on stem to stern. The boat and crew survived, the crew shaken, the boat unscathed. 
I have been sailboatless for the last 10 years. Have been keeping my eye on the market and researching every boat available in the 30k to 60k price range. Catalinas hold their value better than any other boat in that price range. Tartan would be the best choice for offshore sailing, a touch more expensive and a little less comfortable at anchor or living aboard. The Tartan line, of the same age, will still have maintenance and age issues as expensive to repair or fix and out fit for passage making. Any, I repeat any boat can come apart in extreme conditions. Maybe you could by Backus's Deerfoot 60. Very nice boat, very nice. Less issues, but even a small issue is a big expense.
Regardless of how much cruising you think you will be doing, you will be spending at least 90% of your time at anchor, mooring or in slip. Yes, even out cruising. Anyone who has cruised for 6 months or more care to refute that fact? In fact 90% is actually a low number, it is more like 95% of you time. So, you need a boat that is comfortable to spend 95% of your time comfotable in. Catalina 36!!!
Valliel, I hope to be able to contact you soon, right now I must check on a few Catalina 36's I am keeping my eye on. No I am not going to share with any of you where I have found some good deals that have been available for a while and probably with owners ready to negotiate.
Please lord, deliver me from this life on dirt soon.
Larry B


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Get a copy of Offshore Sailboat from Amazon. It will help you identify shortcomings needed safety gear etc.


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## arch1e (Oct 10, 2018)

Very late (6 years!) into the post but I think it's worth mentioning that the C36 that was abandoned on the way to Hawaii was later recovered intact so it was able to stand up to whatever was thrown at it even without a crew. Just a thought.


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