# Looking for Carol K



## eherlihy

This guy set out on a Benneteau 43 with 1 crew aboard (total of 2 souls) from Jamestown, RI and is overdue for landfall in Norfolk, VA. No mention of his planned route or equipment or training/experience (any of which would be helpful) but I surmise that he planned to go offshore in order to make it in 3 days.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/coast-...boater-ryan-hollis-from-rhode-island/29598160


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## mbianka

Having a nasty day here on Long Island hope they are not in it. Seems foolish to not have some type of tracking location transmitter on such a passage Delorme etc... Even AIS might be helpful in a search. I'm currently reading the Gathering Wind about the sinking of the BOUNTY. Expect the USCG has launched Hercules aircraft to try and make contact or relay any communications to SAR offices. Hope this ends with good news. Still early in the search though.


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## eherlihy

If they went just south of Block Island and then set a heading for Norfolk, it is about a 350nm trek. The rhum line heading is about 330º. At 6kts, that would take about 59hrs... However, because they would be headded DIRECTLY into the prevailing winds, they would not make 6kts for 59hrs. There are few bailout options along the south coast of Long Island or the Jersey shore, and all the bailout options would be 40+ miles to the west of this rhum line.

I did some Facebook research on the skipper. From what I could read, it seems to me that he bought an old ketch in 2017 and moved aboard. He ended up donating the ketch to charity in 2018 after he aquired the Benneteau. Most of his sailing seems to have been in or around Narragansett Bay. I could find no info on how the Benneteau was equipped, or his sailing education. He had a couple of young kids and a girlfriend. It was the girlfriend that alerted the Coast Guard that he was overdue for check in at Norfolk.

I hope this turns out well, but none of what I could find (above) makes it sound promising.


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## eherlihy

Officials now say Joshua Kane Cairone and Louiś, the Frenchie, were also on the boat with Ryan Hollis and have not been seen since Wednesday. A Twitter post at 12:41pm EDT shows them with an inflated dinghy on davits, and possibly R "2" FL R 4s WHIS south of Pt. Judith in the background.










https://www.wpri.com/news/local-new...oking-for-second-man-dog-on-missing-sailboat/


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## outbound

Have done that trip multiple times to meet up with SDR to get to eastern Caribbean. In the fall every time the trip from Naragansett bay to Norfolk VA has been worse than Norfolk to BVI. 
There’s no good bail point in a strong easterly until cape May. Given its so shallow for such a distance you’re not really off the continental shelf so even moderate waves break. Southerlies mean either motor sailing into square waves or tacking. To get a decent ride you can’t be hard on the wind. 45-55 degrees is much better.
If you hug the coast waves reflect off the shore or break on shoals so are confused.
Cold,wet, bumpy either sailing or motor sailing. Just sucks. 
I’ve said on this site I’m convinced coastal is more difficult than ocean. This transit among many (coastal Portugal, Atlantic France, West US coast going north etc.) is among those that can be quite difficult in the fall. 
Close friend on sistership is going Naragansett to howdy bailey (Norfolk) to get some work done. He waited last week out. Leaving tomorrow or Tuesday depending on what gribs and Parker say today. He’s taking three. Although a short passage it’s isn’t one where you can just set the AP and vane then sit back and watch AIS. Even at this time of year someone needs to be within a step of the wheel.


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## eherlihy

I am also making the trek from RI to Norfolk, VA. leaving next Monday (November 4). The boat is well-found, a Caliber 40LRC, and it has AIS. I will be helping two novice sailors bring their boat to the Bahamas. Once in Norfolk, they will take the ditch to Florida. 

My plan is to take our time and transit Long Island Sound to Sandy Hook, NJ. We will then wait for a window to jump from Sandy Hook to Cape May. Once in Cape May I will decide to either go up the Delaware and down the Chesapeake, or around the outside to Norfolk, again weather dependent. I will check in with my wife every day, so my position and plan will be known within a 100 mile radius. I have planned on TEN days to make the trip, and will take longer if the weather doesn't cooperate.


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## outbound

Smart.


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## eherlihy

outbound said:


> Smart.


 I've never been accused of _that_ before! I think "conservative" might be more apropros.

Anyway, this thread is not about me, but about the crew aboard Carol K. Hoping for a happy ending.


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## SanderO

Has this boat been located?


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## eherlihy

Two men and their dog, who had been missing since setting sail from Jamestown, RI on Oct. 23, *have been found safe about 100 miles off the coast of Cape Henry, NC, according to the U.S. Coast Guard*.

Ryan Hollis, Joshua Kane Cairone, and a French bulldog named Louis-the-buoy were last seen aboard a white 43-foot Benneteau sailboat named Carol K. via social media post at 12:41 p.m., Wednesday, October 23.

The were found by a rescue aircrew flying an HC-130 out of Elizabeth City, NC.

Coast Guard watchstanders were first notified about the missing boaters from a phone call from Hollis' girlfriend reporting him overdue Friday.

Search and rescue crews include an HC-130 aircrew from Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City, North Carolina, and an HC-144 aircrew from Air Station Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

Rescue crews completed multiple searches over large areas of the East Coast of the United States covering more than 30,000 square nautical miles.

#BreakingNews #UPDATE: The Coast Guard has safely located the two missing men and their dog 100 miles off the coast of Cape Henry, NC. They were found by a rescue aircrew flying an HC-130 out of Elizabeth City, NC. #SAR @USCGNortheast @uscgmidatlantic

- USCGNortheast (@USCGNortheast) October 28, 2019


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## Minnesail

Were they in distress, or just out of communication?


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## mbianka

eherlihy said:


> Two men and their dog, who had been missing since setting sail from Jamestown, RI on Oct. 23, *have been found safe about 100 miles off the coast of Cape Henry, NC, according to the U.S. Coast Guard*.
> 
> Ryan Hollis, Joshua Kane Cairone, and a French bulldog named Louis-the-buoy were last seen aboard a white 43-foot Benneteau sailboat named Carol K. via social media post at 12:41 p.m., Wednesday, October 23.
> 
> The were found by a rescue aircrew flying an HC-130 out of Elizabeth City, NC.
> 
> Coast Guard watchstanders were first notified about the missing boaters from a phone call from Hollis' girlfriend reporting him overdue Friday.
> 
> Search and rescue crews include an HC-130 aircrew from Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City, North Carolina, and an HC-144 aircrew from Air Station Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
> 
> Rescue crews completed multiple searches over large areas of the East Coast of the United States covering more than 30,000 square nautical miles.
> 
> #BreakingNews #UPDATE: The Coast Guard has safely located the two missing men and their dog 100 miles off the coast of Cape Henry, NC. They were found by a rescue aircrew flying an HC-130 out of Elizabeth City, NC. #SAR @USCGNortheast @uscgmidatlantic
> 
> - USCGNortheast (@USCGNortheast) October 28, 2019


Uh Cape Henry North Carolina is near Raleigh according to Google. Probably meant to say Cape Henry Virginia. Still good news they were found safe and sound. Still think a lot of effort and anxiety could have been avoided had they just carried a cheap tracking device like a Delorme or Inreach device. Seems like cheap insurance for their passage.


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## Minnewaska

Perhaps they continued past VA and that's why they're overdue.


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## colemj

mbianka said:


> Still think a lot of effort and anxiety could have been avoided had they just carried a cheap tracking device like a Delorme or Inreach device. Seems like cheap insurance for their passage.


No. A lot of effort and anxiety could be avoided by simply managing expectations of shore people. These almost weekly BOLA's are annoying. It seems like everyone thinks cruising is done to time tables like airlines or trains, and apparently those doing the cruising have failed to manage the expectations of those they leave behind.

Cruising should not be about constant tracking and having shore assistance alerting authorities the very minute or hour one does not make their intended destination. In this case, and every other one in recent memory, a Delorme-type device provides no insurance at all, because everyone was safe and happy anyway. It might have saved much money on SAR sorties in this case, but that isn't the purpose of those devices, and this type of situation could easily be avoided without one.

In a case last year or so, the Delorme actually CAUSED a SAR to commence because it stopped transmitting for a day.

Instead, an EPIRB and rugged communication gear like SSB or Satphone - activated when needed by the ship crew - is the correct answer.

I'm afraid we may be entering an age of crying wolf that is going to bite someone in real trouble eventually.

Mark


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## SanderO

Seems to be kinda dumb and inconsiderate not to have a locator or AIS B or a regular radio / telephone schedule. If they weren't lost or in distress... they endangered the USCG and wasted a lot of money for those searches.


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## colemj

SanderO said:


> Seems to be kinda dumb and inconsiderate not to have a locator or AIS B or a regular radio / telephone schedule. If they weren't lost or in distress... they endangered the USCG and wasted a lot of money for those searches.


The boat crew didn't endanger anyone or waste any time - the shore person/people did. I guess by extension the boat people could be blamed for not managing the shore people correctly, but I've no way of knowing this.

Like I mentioned earlier, there was one case recently where a SAR was initiated because a locator stopped transmitting for a day and the owner left instructions to call authorities if he was lost.

This is not the correct way of handling emergencies. The boat crew themselves are responsible for initiating SAR, and should be equipped to do so. The exception might be something like "I'm due at my next landfall around X date. If you don't hear from me by X+Y date, then alert authorities". The "Y" in this case would be a large number proportional to "X".

It would not be hours, or even a couple of days.

I'm not sure how an AIS would have helped in this situation. That isn't really a ship-shore communication.

Mark


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## SanderO

colemj said:


> The boat crew didn't endanger anyone or waste any time - the shore person/people did. I guess by extension the boat people could be blamed for not managing the shore people correctly, but I've no way of knowing this.
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, there was one case recently where a SAR was initiated because a locator stopped transmitting for a day and the owner left instructions to call authorities if he was lost.
> 
> This is not the correct way of handling emergencies. The boat crew themselves are responsible for initiating SAR, and should be equipped to do so. The exception might be something like "I'm due at my next landfall around X date. If you don't hear from me by X+Y date, then alert authorities". The "Y" in this case would be a large number proportional to "X".
> 
> It would not be hours, or even a couple of days.
> 
> I'm not sure how an AIS would have helped in this situation. That isn't really a ship-shore communication.
> 
> Mark


Well yeah... and AIS B can be followed online even if the position lags.


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## RegisteredUser

By now the dog is prob pulling watch duty.
Let em keep on gettin on


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## mbianka

colemj said:


> The boat crew didn't endanger anyone or waste any time - the shore person/people did. I guess by extension the boat people could be blamed for not managing the shore people correctly, but I've no way of knowing this.
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, there was one case recently where a SAR was initiated because a locator stopped transmitting for a day and the owner left instructions to call authorities if he was lost.
> 
> This is not the correct way of handling emergencies. The boat crew themselves are responsible for initiating SAR, and should be equipped to do so. The exception might be something like "I'm due at my next landfall around X date. If you don't hear from me by X+Y date, then alert authorities". The "Y" in this case would be a large number proportional to "X".
> 
> It would not be hours, or even a couple of days.
> 
> I'm not sure how an AIS would have helped in this situation. That isn't really a ship-shore communication.
> 
> Mark


Yeah agree the shore relations could have chilled a bit. But, a cheap Sat Traker would have taken away any fear that they were in trouble with reassuring breadcrumb locations posted online. If it fails as you mention at least the SAR crew have a last known location which would narrow any search area which is a very good thing.

EPIRB may or may not be activated depending on the nature of the emergency. Remember El Faro? But I agree would be very good to have. Still does not ease the worry of family or friends.

Sat Phone a real plus but $$$.

SSB is fine as long as you have power and the rigging is still up.

AIS signal might be picked up by nearby shipping and noted in Ships Log and be able assist any SAR with a location.


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## eherlihy

The skipper seems to have provided a float plan to a responsible person. The responsible person alerted the CG, as they should, when the boat was overdue to check in. 

The skipper should have alerted the responsible person when/if he deviated from the float plan. 

SAR did what they are supposed to do. Dudes and dog are safe. 

I feel for the dog.


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## Minnewaska

I have no interest in returning to the wild west, where your family left for years, with zero communication, and returned married and with a family. We don't sail wooden square riggers on passage anymore either.

Modern communications equipment is extraordinarily *in*expensive, compared to the price of the bloody boat. Stay in touch. Not only to prevent unnecessary SARs, but to respect the feelings of those that are concerned for your safety.

For that matter, an EPRIB tells SAR nothing but the fact that it's been activated. SAR can't even tell if it's a false alarm, let alone the nature of the emergency. You may have lost propulsion. There may be a crew member having a heart attack or you're sinking. Do you know how long they take to try to figure it out? Could be longer than you have. Sure, trigger the EPIRB for an emergency, it's the most reliable. Getting a satellite text or phone message to SAR to explain that it's real and exactly the resources you require will get them on scene quickly.


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## colemj

My point wasn't to leave without any communication - it was to manage shore-side expectations. We have almost weekly BOLA's issued for boats that are a day late daysailing a 500nm trip. We have them for boats whose Delorme didn't transmit one 6hr interval. We have them for boats who simply chose a different anchorage than they originally intended and hadn't yet put the boat away to call home. It has gotten downright silly, and all cases have been false alarms due to shoreside hysterics.

If people are filing float plans, with instructions to call help under over-strict rules of communication, then that is on the them, but it's wrong. Sailors have a responsibility to manage time expectations on shore. After all, these people are generally unfamiliar with passagemaking and all it involves - bad weather to them just means their flight is delayed an hour.

A heart attack, sinking, or similar could not involve the shoreside at all, because they don't have real-time information. I agree that an EPIRB doesn't help time-wise here, but you seemed to willfully ignore the rest of my sentence in that post where I stated "_and rugged communication gear like SSB or Satphone_". I assumed cellphone as a given, but maybe I should have also made that explicit.

Mark


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## midwesterner

Hey Ryan, call your girlfriend when you say you will. Your missed calls cost us a lot of money.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10...de-island-rescued-coast-guard-north-carolina/


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## outbound

Know I’ve been catching static on the AIS thread but coastal and passage have AIS on ALWAYS. Another reason for transceivers. They are more helpful coastal as you may disappear offshore on AIS. Send an email daily and leave breadcrumbs from the spot or Go. Have more excess phone minutes than bytes usually and cellphone coverage is surprisingly good on on east coast so that’s an option we use as well. Coast guard vhf goes out a long way. 
Have two grown daughters who track us. They know to try to contact us before reaching out to anyone else. They are use (over 30 years) to sailing trips so have good judgment as to when there’s a real probability we are in trouble. I’ve been called overdue once. We were really in trouble then. SAR never found us but fortunately it all sorted out. 
Thank the lord these people are safe. Hindsight is 20/20. Hope they learned and change their protocol.


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## midwesterner

outbound said:


> Know I've been catching static on the AIS thread but coastal and passage have AIS on ALWAYS.


But few small pleasure craft owners have an AIS transponder, they just have the receiver, so no position is broadcast.

This sounds like he said to his paramour, Beth, "Yeah,...we'll likely pull into Norfolk on Saturday. I'll call you." It's like when I go off to run errands at the hardware store, the grocery store, and the auto parts store and, as I'm heading out the door, I tell my wife, "I'll be back in a couple of hours". Some women actually ascribe meaning to the sounds and grunts we make as we walk out the door.

But. like I said, "Ryan, Beth appears to be one of those women who, apparently, expects to hear from you when you say that you're going to call. Save the tax payers a lot of money,... and call Beth.

Ha, if I was ever lost at sea, I shudder to think how long it would be before my wife would think to call, because of my history. The kids would say, "Mom, shouldn't we call out a search for Dad?" She'd say, "Oh, you know your father, he probably changed his mind and went somewhere else".


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## chef2sail

outbound said:


> Know I've been catching static on the AIS thread but coastal and passage have AIS on ALWAYS. Another reason for transceivers. They are more helpful coastal as you may disappear offshore on AIS. Send an email daily and leave breadcrumbs from the spot or Go. Have more excess phone minutes than bytes usually and cellphone coverage is surprisingly good on on east coast so that's an option we use as well. Coast guard vhf goes out a long way.
> Have two grown daughters who track us. They know to try to contact us before reaching out to anyone else. They are use (over 30 years) to sailing trips so have good judgment as to when there's a real probability we are in trouble. I've been called overdue once. We were really in trouble then. SAR never found us but fortunately it all sorted out.
> Thank the lord these people are safe. Hindsight is 20/20. Hope they learned and change their protocol.


This is a good feature and application for AIS . In the other thread we are specifically speaking about a question asked by a Chesapeake Bay sailor

An AIS signature would have shown this vessel making progress.


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## hpeer

Some years ago I was cruising solo. I went way outta my way to find a phone and call my wife with my itinerary l. As usual she listens with half an ear and didn’t understand what I was saying. After not hearing from me for a few days freaks and calls the Canadian CG. I was tucked up a fjord with no VHF contact and no other boats. When I eventually got to a small town some guy told me to call the CG , they were looking for me. That’s how I got an Iridium phone. According to a witness the Wife was a basket case, breaking down crying and such, I only heard about this a few years later. She just called me a s*+t head and told me to not do it again. I told her to pay effing attention for once. Such a sensitive and loving couple we are! 

More seriously this is something I struggle with a bit. Without going into details we don’t have anyone competent with whom we can file a float plan. I would pay for such a service if one existed. I’ve thought about doing something on Facebook, but I can’t really make that work in my head. For one thing often no internet. Best thing would be someway to do a daily Iridium SMS message with lar/lon to someone with a float plan.

It is troublesome.


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## RegisteredUser

Sounds like inreach might be your ticket


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## bigdogandy

RegisteredUser said:


> Sounds like inreach might be your ticket


+1 on the InReach....cheap, easy, and effective.


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## Minnewaska

Whenever overnight or longer, I set up the InReach webpage with a password and give it to a couple of buddies of mine who could sign on to see every move. One is a sailor, one is not. Whenever I text someone, it automatically attaches our current lat/long. I find myself texting just to pass the time, but it serves a productive purpose. I have the subscription, with unlimited texting that I can turn on and off throughout the year.


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## hpeer

If the “Inreach” suggestion was aimed toward me, thanks for the suggestion but I don’t see how it solves my problem.

I already have an Iridium. I don’t have an “awake and aware” landslide presence to send to.


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## mbianka

hpeer said:


> Some years ago I was cruising solo. I went way outta my way to find a phone and call my wife with my itinerary l. As usual she listens with half an ear and didn't understand what I was saying. After not hearing from me for a few days freaks and calls the Canadian CG. I was tucked up a fjord with no VHF contact and no other boats. When I eventually got to a small town some guy told me to call the CG , they were looking for me. That's how I got an Iridium phone. According to a witness the Wife was a basket case, breaking down crying and such, I only heard about this a few years later. She just called me a s*+t head and told me to not do it again. I told her to pay effing attention for once. Such a sensitive and loving couple we are!
> 
> More seriously this is something I struggle with a bit. Without going into details we don't have anyone competent with whom we can file a float plan. I would pay for such a service if one existed. I've thought about doing something on Facebook, but I can't really make that work in my head. For one thing often no internet. Best thing would be someway to do a daily Iridium SMS message with lar/lon to someone with a float plan.
> 
> It is troublesome.


Reminds me of the winters day I told my girlfriend that I was going to the boatyard to do some work on the boat which was stored for the winter. After a few hours she got concerned and called the Coast Guard who wisely just called the local Police who knocked on the hull to check on me. We had a little discussion about her actions. 

FYI. The Boat U.S. app allows you to file a float plan on your phone with all your boats information.


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## Minnewaska

hpeer said:


> If the "Inreach" suggestion was aimed toward me, thanks for the suggestion but I don't see how it solves my problem.
> 
> I already have an Iridium. I don't have an "awake and aware" landslide presence to send to.


No friend, no family? Very sorry to hear that. A candidate doesn't need any understanding of what's going on, nor monitor 24/7. They just need a phone or computer. I actively check in every 12 hours at a watch change, even though they can view location at any time. Typically 6am and 6pm. On one particularly nasty passage, while a thunderstorm was following (and thankfully went to the west around us), I added mid-night and noon to the check-in. Had a buddy who nearly insisted and set his alarm to get up at midnight. Good friend.

I have heard of local boating organizations that volunteer to hold float plans, but that's pretty inconsistent, I'm sure. Might be worth checking around the home town. Aux or Power Squads maybe.


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## hpeer

Well we don’t have a “home town” as such. We spend summers in Newfoundland around family but most are ladies in their late 60’s, I’m not feeling that. The kids are full of their own lives, hard to get them to answer a phone. Most friends hire an electrician to change a light bulb (no I’m NOT joking or exaggerating). We lived in CC Philadelphia for a very long time and most of those folks are “cliff dwellers”, condo rats. Zero common sense. 

So yeah, we have lots of “friends and family”, but their physical world, their world view and experience is extremely different from ours. They have no concept of what we do, where the Caribbean is. 

We have one couple we might be able to turn to, live aboards, level headed, great folks. But I hate to put that burden on them.


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## SanderO

It's prudent to file a float plan for offshore passages.. and have some means of checking in with someone or be tracked.


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## outbound

When kids are off traveling and wife’s on the boat with me use a non sailing friend. Wrote out a protocol for him to use (actually his wife is the more reliable so emailed it to both). We send a email daily which just says our position and we’re okay. (Spot is the cheapest way but any device-SSB, satphone, GO etc. is fine). He has our satphone number and satphone/SSB emails. Before leaving also give him the SAR service(s) nearest to where we are traveling. He’s a retired social worker who hates technology. Still has a flip phone but he does check his emails once a day. Was a boyscout troup leader so understands lat/long but otherwise clueless about modern navigation and electronics. Still it works on the rare occasions we needed a fallback. So you’re 60+ crowd should be able to get it right. I hunt and fish with this friend. Give him a dozen woolly buggers and he’s happy to help out.
I took him took him R.I. to chessie once on the outside. We had some squalls. He understands the importance so I’m comfortable with him being backup. Hopefully you can find someone similar. Don’t think that their being non sailors makes it impossible.


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## hpeer

Outbound,

Without getting too personal about the group of friends we had and why your guy is a regular Grizzly Adams by comparison. 

With all sincerity and with no exaggeration in a combined group of 30 professionals not one could or would reset a normal circuit breaker. Despite me showing them how. More than a few don’t drive, it’s too difficult. 

After my last post I reviewed it with my Wife, to make sure I was not exaggerating. She concurred with my opinion. 

I don’t know how some people manage to suck air except it’s an involuntary reflex. Economist and statisticians come to mind.

Nice folks, smart in their own way.


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## outbound

Shucks. Just trying to help a good guy.


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## RegisteredUser

Disappointing to realize that many, many people think food originates at the grocery store.
Tis life


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## krisscross

I am very fortunate. My Garmin InReach daily position checks go to at least 10 different persons, who are all eager to see where I am currently located. These are close friends and my immediate family members, including my 88 year old mother. I went to great pains to explain that if they don’t hear from me in a couple of days it’s not a reason to worry or call CG as I have several ways to do that myself. The cost for my plan is under $30 per month. Very happy with that device.


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## hpeer

outbound said:


> Shucks. Just trying to help a good guy.


I know and I appreciate your thoughts.


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## RegisteredUser

All the same = very boring...


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## midwesterner

hpeer said:


> We spend summers in Newfoundland around family but most are ladies in their late 60's,...


Hey, what's that comment about?! I'm 65 years, 6 months, and 24 days old. I'll be entering my "late sixties" about....well,...tomorrow. But I know how to use my cellular telephone, I'm well versed in the use of Word Star on the computer, and I've even twitted on Tweeter. So stop the ageist remarks.


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## Minnesail

midwesterner said:


> I'm well versed in the use of Word Star on the computer


You win! We'll fax you your award.


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## midwesterner

Minnesail said:


> You win! We'll fax you your award.


No, that won't work, I haven't set up any fax software on my computer yet.


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