# Snow Load Sinks Boats



## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

We've been enjoying the benefits of Global Warming here along the British Columbia coast for the past few weeks.  Where normally this time of year people are bragging to their friends back east about their afternoon sailing or round of golf, this year it has been consistently below freezing nearly the entire month of December. We have had several daily low records and a new all-time low record set. It started snowing early last week, and has continued with little interruption ever since.

This morning the temperature nudged above freezing for the first time in weeks, and the falling snow became wetter as it tried to turn to rain. A snow sample and some quick calculations told me I would by now have just over two tons of snow on Sequitur. The forecast is for the precipitation to turn to rain and and for temperatures to rise to 3 on Christmas Day and to 5 on Boxing Day, with dips to just below freezing both nights. This would add considerably to the load on Sequitur. Time for snow removal.

Around noon I drove down to Granville Island through nearly deserted streets that should have been bustling with Christmas Eve shoppers. I grabbed the Bowen Island water taxi to Snug Cove and waddled through knee-deep snow along the floats my slip and shot the following 'before' photo:










Forty-five minutes of shovelling lifted Sequitur about 5cm out of the water, and the rains over the next few days should wash the rest of the snow off her. Here's a shot after shovelling about half a metre of snow off Sequitur:










I grabbed the water taxi back to Vancouver, and as we came into False Creek, I saw most of the boats in the marinas still had full snow loads. Several of them were well below their lines, and some of the smaller boats in the Burrard Civic Marina were dangerously low. We are not accustomed to snow like this on this coast, and few people know the risks of allowing heavy accumulations of snow on their boats.

After I returned home, I did a quick Google search and found the following link about a boat sinking from its snow load:

Snow: Boats sink in La Conner, Blaine


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Is the water around your boat actually frozen? Looks that way, but hard to tell as it might be the snow you tossed overboard. 

I had 6" or so on my boat last sunday afternoon, checked her tonight, and she was pretty snow free. A bit of rain earlier today, along with it being 33-36 most of the daylight hrs the last two days in Edmonds probably helped.

Marty


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Feliz Navidad y Feliz Año Nuevo. It's Christmas Eve here in Corpus Christi and it's a balmy 75 degrees - quite different than Vancouver


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yup... snow can sink boats pretty well...since it can lead to clogged cockpit drains, which can lead to the cockpit filling, then the boat fills with water....then blub...blub... blub...  

Rain, if it is warm enough, and if the air temps are high enough can lead to the snow melting... but if it the air isn't warm enough, it just makes the snow denser and usually turns it to ice.


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

blt2ski said:


> Is the water around your boat actually frozen? Looks that way, but hard to tell as it might be the snow you tossed overboard.
> 
> I had 6" or so on my boat last sunday afternoon, checked her tonight, and she was pretty snow free. A bit of rain earlier today, along with it being 33-36 most of the daylight hrs the last two days in Edmonds probably helped.
> 
> Marty


Marty,

There are paddies of ice, a cm or two thick from the minus 8 to minus 14 temps we've been having. I haven't seen the salt chuck freeze here in over 25 years. I remember ice in False Creek in the early '80s, when I kept my ketch at Pelican Bay.

Forecast here is for temperatures to remain above freezing after Friday, and to work their way back up to more normal levels. That and the forecast rain should make it worse for some boats, before it gets better.

This deep freeze and snow sure are cramping my sailing style.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Thats correct Sail Dog When the drains plug up ....
I keep my boat all covered up .Makes the shoveling a lot nicer


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'm currently in the baltic/ North sea so i think i know how you are feeling its minus 10 and steel tends to be slippery when frozen the Cheif officer has already fallen over several times (this could be due to the large amount of Port she drinks, but lets pretend it,s the ice ) and i'm not doing much better


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## modul8 (Oct 26, 2008)

Don't forget that when water freezes, it EXPANDS.
So its important to get ALL the water off the boat. ice forming in your drains and other crevices can create force enough to crack things you dont want cracked.
you have a nice boat. worth spending 40 or so bucks on a tarp for. If you do cover it, be careful that you don't leave any place for snow/ice to collect, or the weight can pull the stanchions in.
the best solution of course to all of this is to spend some quality time in the tropics.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We've shovelled our boat off twice already this week.. and will need to do so again Boxing day by the look of it.

Many believe that the snow acts as insulation, but I'm far more concerned about loads, and plugged/frozen cockpit drains.

Michael, how were the outflow winds crossing over to Bowen?


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## modul8 (Oct 26, 2008)

when you can ice skate around your boat, it's a good indicator that you need a latitude-ectomy. Got any friends in California with a dock?


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

Faster said:


> Michael, how were the outflow winds crossing over to Bowen?


Visibility was down to less than 10 metres in misty snow; the worse the taxi skipper had ever seen, and I hadn't seen it that bad around here in years. The radar and chart plotter said we passed about 50 metres off Point Atkinson, but there was no way to tell. We bucked into a heavy short chop from Point Atkinson to Snug; the Squamish Winds were probably 30 to 35. We couldn't see the cliffs as we entered the Cove. On the way back an hour later, visibility had improved to half a mile or so, and we ran with the wind and seas; much smoother ride.

Merry Christmas


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Where we keep our boat, Shelter Bay, there is enough fresh water on top of the salt water that it freezes over in these cold spells. I agree totally on the need for a latitude adjustment. Just a few more years.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Michael,

Are you the fellow who posted a youtube video of 50 knot winds at the dock where you keep you boat? I saw one posted earlier in the month and it was impressive.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

A 45 footer sunk in Shelter Bay on Tuesday. There is some first hand information available on this forum:

(edit: after reading some of the discussion on the forum, there is speculation by one fellow that the sea strainer froze and broke or some other below water fitting. So freeze damage instead of snow load.)

Marina freezing over - Page 3 - BAYLINER® OWNERS' CLUB


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

modul8 said:


> ... worth spending 40 or so bucks on a tarp for. If you do cover it, be careful that you don't leave any place for snow/ice to collect, or the weight can pull the stanchions in.


Snow at sea level has not been a regular feature around here; we generally store the snow up in the mountains for the skiers. When we do get a snow fall, it has in the past usually melted the following day or two, spawning the joke: _What do Vancouverites do after a snowfall? ... They watch it melt._  A snow tarp would find very little use around here. I do a lot of winter sailing, and the bother of setting and striking a tarp would prevent a lot of spontaneous sails.


modul8 said:


> the best solution of course to all of this is to spend some quality time in the tropics.


Very much in the plans... This time next year we'll be somewhere in Central America or on our way to the Galapagos.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You try getting snow & Ice off of your vessel when out at sea when the deck is moving under your feet... Talk about FUN & GAMES.


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

Boasun said:


> You try getting snow & Ice off of your vessel when out at sea when the deck is moving under your feet... Talk about FUN & GAMES.


Been there... done that. North Atlantic winters are a real bear.

(1975 Master Foreign Going)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

So here it is Boxing Day, and with no intention to "line up to get into a shopping mall" we checked the boat once again after a couple of days of snow, and more falling as we got there.

We've not gotten near as much as our friends a few miles south, but for this area this is a significant coverage, over 2 feet on the ground. Tomorrow is calling for 7deg C and up to nearly 3 inches of rain... there's gonna be some flooding and heavy snow loads here and there.



















What's really rare is the ice... softer now that it's warming up, but the river outside our home is choked with it.. so much that commuter ferries are not running anymore.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

You guys are really getting hammered. Hang in there.

When we purchased our current boat, we had to shovel about four inches of snow off deck, launch her, then break ice to get to a free channel in order to complete the seatrial. Not unheard of in January in Chesapeake country, but not the norm either.

We got permission from the owners to leave the boat in the water at a slip after the seatrial, rather than return it to the yard. We wanted to sail the boat out of Annapolis at the end of winter and deliver it to our homeport.

A few days after seatrial, but before we had exchanged papers, Annapolis was hit with about 2 feet of snow -- very rare for these parts. Around here, that much snow leaves roads impassable for days, so I wasn't able to get out there to check the boat. Before I could, we then got a heavy downpour of rain. 

When I finally arrived at the boat, it looked to be sitting very low in the water. I shoveled the companionway clear and opened the hatch to discover an inch of water above the floorboards.  

The weight of the snow, made heavier by the soaking rain, had pushed the stern low enough that water had begun seeping in through the rudderpost packing gland, which is normally well above the waterline. The bilge pump had stopped running when the batteries eventually gave out. 

So you folks are smart to keep close tabs on the boats with this unusual weather. Problems can arise that you would not normally expect. 

Stay warm!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Good cautionary tale, John. Looking down the docks it's easy to see who checks their boat and who doesn't. We knocked the heavy snow off a few neighbouring dodgers, walking in 2 feet of undisturbed snow on their fingers, you know no one's been around.

Considering the investment involved, it's a bit tough to understand. Even if events take you out of town one would expect that arrangements could be made to have things looked after for you.

With tomorrow's rain, the most likely victims will be the lightly built "boathouses/shelters" than usually collapse or flip under the high centered snow loads.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's another lesson, from a friend's marina nearby in Gibsons Landing..

From the email:

His keel housing has two bolts go through it to hold up the keel while trailering, they were not in. The heavy snow load lowered the boat till these bolt holes were below the water line, didn't take long, as they said it sank 12" in 15 minutes.

This boat has been refloated already - VERY LUCKY others were around when this happened!!


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

Yup, it's not necessarily the boat being pushed under; it's usually the boat being lowered to an overlooked 'weak link' like that.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Get a bigger sail boat .......problem resolved !


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

Not always problem solved, sometimes it just means more water to pump out.

Always surprised at how many boats you see that seem to have the bilge pumps constantly pumping, one near me has the pump cycle every ten minutes, and pumps for about 5 minutes each time. Very nice looking boat but seldom see anyone aboard to ask about it.

As for snow load, I just shoveled approximately 2ft of snow off my Ariel, I meant to get to it earlier but kept getting hung up. Luckily it's on the trailer in the yard so I don't have to worry about her sinking. Could tell from the 'spring' that there was a good heavy load there though. Before shoveling it felt rock solid, after shoveling I could feel the spring in the trailer. 

Side note, my daughters porch roof collapsed about 4 hours ago from the snow load. 

Ken


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

Could have waited on the shoveling, 50 degrees today *^&$%^ michigan weather anyway.

Ken.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

*Something no one's mentioned*

The dink. Sequitur, you've got the dink on davits and filled with snow. Watch that. If you put too much load on that you could end up bending your davits. For instance, if the drain is not entirely clear, when that snow melts you will end up with a dink full of water, which is more dense than snow. Then it may freeze, and nothing good will come from that.

It doesn't look like your dink is covered, and it also appears you have her canted to her port side, which means the water won't drain even if you have the drain plug out.

Just flagging the issue. If you've got it under control, my apologies for meddling.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just wanted to send my sincere condolences to all you snowed in sailors. There's something just fundamentally wrong with that. Hang tough, brothers!


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

danielgoldberg said:


> The dink. Sequitur, you've got the dink on davits and filled with snow. Watch that. If you put too much load on that you could end up bending your davits. For instance, if the drain is not entirely clear, when that snow melts you will end up with a dink full of water, which is more dense than snow. Then it may freeze, and nothing good will come from that.
> 
> It doesn't look like your dink is covered, and it also appears you have her canted to her port side, which means the water won't drain even if you have the drain plug out.
> 
> Just flagging the issue. If you've got it under control, my apologies for meddling.


Daniel;

Thank you very much for your concern.

My dinghy, _Non Sequitur_ is covered, and although the cover has sagged a bit, the dinghy's list to port is allowing melt water to run off. Also, when I hoist the dinghy, I always remove the plug and attach the end of the falls to its lanyard as a pre-launch reminder. I checked the drain when I was there the other day, and it was clear and dry.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

I just had to jump in here.

I find it extremely hard to believe that you could pile enough snow on top of a well found sailboat to cause it to sink. After all there is already several thousand pounds of lead/iron hanging under it.

If it sinks it's because there is another problem that the owner failed to address and just got away with it until times got bad.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You've obviously never see how heavy snow can get, especially if there's a rain storm or freezing rain storm along with it or if it is the wet concrete type New England snow. A couple of feet of the wet-concrete type snow we get in New England can add enough weight to a boat to bring it down a few inches.

If the cockpit drains get clogged and the cockpit fills up with snow and ice, that can be a pretty significant amount of weight as well. Add to that a hose or two bursting from ice freezing in it... then you've got a pretty good recipe for sinking a boat.

BTW, to give you an idea of what the problem is... roofs in New England are often designed for 40-70 lbs. per sq. ft. of snow load. Even with that kind of rating, we've had roofs failing due to the weight of snow and ice this winter. 3-5" of old snow weighs about 5-6 lbs. per sq. foot. If the snow was wet to begin with, that can be off by a factor of two....

Using the base figures 3" of snow weighing 6 lbs. per sq. ft., with snow that is 15" deep, as was the case this past week in much of New England. You're looking at 30 lbs. per sq. ft of boat area..... probably more in the cockpit, since snow would tend to build up there due to drifiting... A 30' boat is usually about 11' wide... figure that the area of the boat is about 60% of the area of the rectangle, due to the shape of the boat. 30*11*.6=198 sq. ft. 198 sq. ft. * 30 lbs. of snow per sq. ft. = 5940 lbs. of snow.

The PPI rating of a Catalina 30 is about 1000 lbs. per inch. That means that this much snow would sink the boat SIX INCHES. How many boats do you know of that would be safe if they were sunk an additional six inches without any additional preparation.

In southern California, sailboats are regularly sunk by sealions and seals wanting to sun themselves on the boats...



DwayneSpeer said:


> I just had to jump in here.
> 
> I find it extremely hard to believe that you could pile enough snow on top of a well found sailboat to cause it to sink. After all there is already several thousand pounds of lead/iron hanging under it.
> 
> If it sinks it's because there is another problem that the owner failed to address and just got away with it until times got bad.


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

Guess he doesnt get much snow at the walla walla yacht club. The sailboats are designed for these giant lead things hanging under them but not for thousands of weight up top to just lower it more this puts the boat under unnecessary stress causing things to go wrong.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

We just got back from a 4 day cruise and the lowest temp was 31 degrees C (88 degrees F) and I burnt my feet walking on the dock! The next three days are 38, 36 & 39 (100, 97 & 102). Hard to contemplate your photos from here.

Gotta go (& jump in the pool)  

Ilenart


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I say this from all the sailors up in New England and the Great Lakes...

BITE US!!!, you bastardo sujo. 


Ilenart said:


> We just got back from a 4 day cruise and the lowest temp was 31 degrees C (88 degrees F) and I burnt my feet walking on the dock! The next three days are 38, 36 & 39 (100, 97 & 102). Hard to contemplate your photos from here.
> 
> Gotta go (& jump in the pool)
> 
> Ilenart


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

ilenart,

rub it in..........BUT, next summer when it is YOUR winter, and OUR summer! and it is warmer here in the bottom part of the world, and colder in the top part..........well any way, must be what makes the world go round and round and round......................

Marty


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Had six inches of snow on the deck a few days ago.

Cleaned it off. Boat didn't sink. In fact that reminds me, I need to check the tire inflation on the trailer...

/chuckle


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> I say this from all the sailors up in New England and the Great Lakes...
> 
> BITE US!!!, you bastardo sujo.


that really had to be said.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

DwayneSpeer said:


> I just had to jump in here.
> 
> I find it extremely hard to believe that you could pile enough snow on top of a well found sailboat to cause it to sink. After all there is already several thousand pounds of lead/iron hanging under it.
> 
> If it sinks it's because there is another problem that the owner failed to address and just got away with it until times got bad.


I don't recall the exact numbers right now, but an AWFUL lot of people suffer from heart attacks every year, shoveling snow.

Here in Colorado we get a few inches at a time (where I live) and it generally only stays a few hours or a couple of days.

In Michigan, near Lake St. Clair we used to get a LOT of snow that stuck around (and killed people from heart attacks) every year.

In Oklahoma, we got ICE. Always ICE. No snow to speak of. Always that incessant, awful ice.... In DC and Virgina we got massive blizzards of wet, heavy snow (and I saw at least two boats that had been left in the water on Anacostia River go under, through the ice.... that was sad)....(Neither was a sail boat either).

So... snow can kill ya. It can destroy roofs, buildings, boats, pretty much anything not built to take it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It is cold here


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