# 1984 c&c 35-3



## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Looking at a 1984 C&C 35 mkiii for sale on Lake Michigan. Was wondering if anyone has any input on this boat in terms of surprises or maintenance issues to be aware of. I know any boat this age will probably have these problems, but I've seen a lot online about the Keel needing to be rebedded often; a very thin layer of glass on the keel; C&C "smile" - crack at seam of keel and hull. Apparently the long cabin windows like to develop leaks as well. Rob Ball himself suggested it's too tender for it's rig size...

I sail primarily on a '72 C&C 30 and love it. What is performance like on the 35-3. I'm looking for a nice racer/cruiser for use on Lake Michigan - no crossing oceans, but something that can handle a mac race/cruising across the lake and also be comfortable for just short handed day sailing with the girl.

Any thoughts/comments are appreciated!


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I used to use a C&C 35 as an instructional boat.

You mentioned the "smile" and the window leaks.

Other issues
- the primary winches seem to be at the wrong angle, they could benefit by being titled slightly outward. The sheet seems to bind at the base of the winch.
- the holding tank developed a leak at the top which only became apparent when on a starboard tack which allow a gap to open.
- the cabin top clutches could be a pain as they were hard to open.

It is not as tender as the C&C 29 of that era.

Aside from those great boat. Sailed well in light air. This one had hank-on sails . 

The strongest winds I had it out in were 35 knots, 3 foot waves. It handled quite well with 2 reefs and reefed down jib, moving at 7 knots.

It has been a while since I sailed it. Other things might come mind. It as my boat of choice n that fleet.

The accommodations will be great for 2.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We have Haleakula an 83 35MKIII. As mentioned C&C smile, but the issue is no different than other C&C Catalinas. We have not had to rebed keel so "often " is not a true statement. The Windows will need resealing proabably. Check mast step also. Chainplates oversized and clearly visable. Check all thru hulls and intrusions into the deck core for proper bedding with moisture meter. Some people stay away from cored boats, but if properly maintained they actually have great degree of lifghtwieght strength and stiffness. Wiring may have to be upgraded to meet current ACBY standards. We are replacing cabin top clutches this year with Garhauers as the original Shaefer are a pain to use.

The 35 MKIII was the Jewel of their line back in the early 80s. It is very quick ( 127 phrf) and points extremely well 38-42 degrees. Jijb tracks up against the coach roof well inward of the side stays. They are stiff and carry speed from light air of 5 knotts to 25 knotts. We have the k.c model and no reefeing in steady winds is necessary until 22 knots and she like to be reefed headsail first. We carry a 150 May- September and a 135 in the heavier colder air months. The 35 is very responsive with the large skeg when tacking, can back up easily, and handles like a sports car steering compared to power steering feel of many similar sized production boats. It has the classic lines of boats of that era. They compare very favorably with the Sabre 36 and will outsail all the production boats of comprable and even 5 ft longer size on almost every point of sail. Great club racer/ There are fleets of the 35's on the Great Lakes where you are and tey hav a large owener following. Here on the East Coast there arent as many. They are true racer/ cruisers compared to the T37 which is a cruiser first,Yanmar 3GMF matched well for the boat and cruises at 6.5 under 2700 rpm. Double spreader rig with high aspect main and she will carry 728 sq ft sail area. Huge anchor locker for windlass , washdown pump, and great extra storage. Rod ringing adds to stiffness and mine carries a spinaker halyard and extra jib halyard along with the two regular. Oversized 42 2 speed self tailing winches for the jib. 4 Seperate s/t winches on the coach top for main sheet, centerboard, jib/ spinakker halyards, and main halyard.

They are also very comfortable coastal cruising. We take ours 1500 miles every summer out of the Chesapeake to the LI Sound and New England. They are kind in the seaway and handle 30 knotts and 6-8 seas very comfortably. The accomadations are very good for a couple. V berth is spaciaous with over 8-9 ft lengths and wide. Salon is set up nicely. Largest nav station with integrated storage table and drawers on any boat their size. Good storage for a boat its size. Tankage is 80 ( we have a capapacity of 120 with 2 additional bladders when cruising) water, 24 holding, and a small 20 for fuel. 3GMF gets 3/4 gallon / hr at 2700 average. Engine acess challanging but has three points ( under steps-front, in lazarette ( side as well as tranny and stuffing box, and under the sink. Boat has h/w heater, pressurized water as well as foot pumps for sea and fresh water ( helps save when cruising). Bilge of the k/c is very shallw and I would suggest getting dripless shaft.

C&C35MKIII has a warm teak interior vs the white plastic feel. The wood is high quality and the joinery work is superb. She is the best of both worlds...fast as hell and comfortable cruising. Doing the Mac will be no problem with this boat and she will finsih high up in the standings with the correct crew, I single hand her a lot of the time with all lines lead aft.

Can you tell I like our boat. 

Dave


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I have a keel model. I concur with Dave. Rod rigging needs attention every decade according to mfg. feel free to pm me.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for the great info guys, much appreciated! chef2sail you mentioned it's cored. Is it balsa? Is it cored above and below the waterline? What about the deck? Has yours stayed dry over the years?


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I've been racing on one for almost 3 years. CB model. The term "swanky" comes to mind, as they're very nice inside.

I see that folks have mentioned the windows. That's the only real problem my skipper buddy has had. That's mainly because he works hard at maintenance in the off-season.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Bubblehead...whats the name of it. Never heard my boat refered to as swanky ( I lkust have too many things hanging off it now- Radar Pole, Davitd, TC antannae, Radar.), but shes fast, Hows does your place in your races? Against what?

Hillenme-
Mine is cored above and below the waterline not below. Every boat is different in terms of water/ moisture. Many boats are cored above the waterline. We have had absolutely no water or moisture intrude in the core or wettness at all. You have to take the correct precautions when putting thru hulls in or deck equipment. After drilling/ boring your hole you ferret out the basla ( end grain in C&C) in the space between the two gelcoat layers. I go back 1/2 inch around the whole diamater. Then you fill that with fiberglass/ epoxy. If you get a ding down to you core you follow the same procedure. I test the wetness with a moisture meter every couple months especially around thru hulls and anything that has bedding ( Hatches , nicrovent, clutches etc.

Dave


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks guys. Finally got to see her on Friday - it is a beautiful boat. One owner, well mentained, everything appeared to be in as good condition as it possibly could be for the age. It was definitely dry below, but I was concerned about cracks on deck. I noticed cracking in the gel-coat everywhere on deck. I walked around the deck and applied some pressure in a lot of places and never felt any give. How concerning is this on boat this age? I was otherwise blown away by the condition of the boat - it was wonderfully maintained (professionaly, at large yacht yard in Chicago).


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

You need to get a moisture meter and have it run over various areas of the boat. Especially the topsodes. Check carefully around the anchor locker and lid and the windows. Even oif there is some elevated levels it doesnt diqualify it, it may just need to be looked at.

We have gelcoat cracking at some of the areas the gelcoat was over 1" thick. It didnt flex there. The boat is also 30 years old. Glkad it was in good condition. Feel free to PM me once you get over 10 posts and one week, What are they asking for her. What type of equipment. Was it at Crowleys.

Dave


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

I would be surprised to see a boat of that age without some crazing, but if you could post some photos those who know might be able to throw in there judgement as to if it is structural or cosmetic. Some boats seem to be worse than others even of the same model and brand, as it can be caused by thickness and curing of the gelcoat.

Was it "Slapshot?"


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Yes it was Slapshot... Are you familiar with the boat?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hillenme said:


> Yes it was Slapshot... Are you familiar with the boat?


Just saw the listing, looks good from the photos.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

The price is a fair one if it surveys well. Make sure they check the moisture meter, mast step and chainplates as this boat was raced ( I can tell by the tyoe of sails. Looks like it was maintained well too

dave


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Keep us up to date with your search. Especially your experience at Crowley's. I will be searching soon for a used boat, and as they are a pretty big boat yard in Chicago maybe I might be working with their brokers.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

My experience so far with Crowley's has been great. Broker is a laid back guy, no pressure what so ever. There are several brokers there, mine was listed through Sailboat Sales Co., but I'll their boats show up on yachtworld.com as well.


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Hey Hillenme,

Did you get to look at the 1982 34' C&C called "Black Dog"? Its also being sold at Crowleys. If you did, what condition was it in? That is quite a price difference, so i am curious. 

Keep us posted on your search. I am very interested.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Turban, 

I did get a look at Blackdog. It was actually used occassionaly by the sailng school here in monroe harbor. I didn't take a long look at it - it is not in good shape. Brightwork all a mess, all this ugly navigation equipment stacked so high on the helm you can hardly see over it (might make sense for a curiser, but not this one). The sole below deck is new, looked like the only thing recently replaced. All the lines including sheets and even docklines are still out on deck getting rained on. Seemed like there was a lot of work to do, probably be a nice fixer-up, but I was in the market for something needing less off season work, at least right off the bat. There are a lot of nice boats for sail in Crowley's yard. Check out Sailboatsalesco.com.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Dave,

Thanks for all the great advice while I was checking this boat out! Just had the survey this morning. Moisture meter and thermal imaging all showed good readings, even around chainplates, anchor locker, etc. The only place the deck showed a little wet was on the sole in the cockpit. After really going through it with the surveryor I was impressed at the level of maintenace it has recieved.

One thing the surveyor cautioned me about was the rod rigging. Said it should have a magnaflux inspection - and it's not cheap. Do you have rod rigging? Any experience that can speak to it's life expectancy? I haven't been told by the broker that it's ever been replaced, and he's made a point of showing me everything other little thing that has. 

Thanks!

Erik


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Hillenme,

Thank you for your reply. Its hard to tell by the pictures so I am glad you were able to give me a bit of a report.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes I have rod rigging. I have replaced it once about 8years ago. Not cheap. The schedule for replacement for standing rigging is very 10 years. Lots ofeople go wy longer. How much does a magma flux test cost. Maybe put tht money word replacing it since its 30 years old probably.

Congrats on the survey. Sounds like she will be yours.

Dave


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

My rigger told me that Navtec recommends that the ends be re headed every ten years. I had it done because I had no idea if it has ever been done. Sounds like you have a very solid boat!


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## Marcel D (Apr 15, 2012)

Spider cracking in gell-coat is a natural responce to a less stiffer material or more brittle material than the fiber glass matting below, flexing in a stress full enviroment. It dosent take away from the strenght oh the hull or deck.


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Yes I have rod rigging. I have replaced it once about 8years ago. Not cheap...
> Dave


Chef2sail, do you mind sharing how much you paid all together for the rod rigging to be replaced.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Can't speak for Chef, but I think re-heading ran about $2,000 on my 35/3 plus the charge to R&R.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

$7800


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

jsaronson and chef2sail, thank you both for your responses. Those numbers are quite sobering.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

That's rod rigging though. Wire would be substantially cheaper.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

Hey guys closed on slapshot yesterday. Thanks for the all great advice. I think I'll def look into some maintenance on the rod rigging. The boat has always been in fresh water, guessing that environment is easier on the rigging...?


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Congrats! Yes, but after 28 years I'd have it checked out!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Thats so great...another 35 MKIII owner Congrats

Definately 28 years on a raced boat...no matter fresh water or not...you are tempting fatigue. Check wire replacement vs rod rigging. I know its substantailly cheaper

dave


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Congrats! Hope you enjoy her in good health and we want to see pictures!

What was the closing price on her? Anything you need to fix right away?

Thanks
-T


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## BlndSqrl (Jan 5, 2012)

You will also want to watch for damage from mast pumping. This is a known problem in this model as well as my 36. It is most noticable at the dock with the wind abeam. You will also want to check the holding tank outlet. This model has a tendancy to not draw enough air in when you are pumping out. This causes the outlet to flex and crack the tank. I solved the issue by installing a second 1/2" air intake into the tank. 

I sailed by 36 on Superior and well know as a great light air boat. But it is also great in the heavy stuff. I sailed mine with a double reef main and a reef in a 105 in 40 knots and the boat handled it with no problem.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

With the correct tension on your backstay adjuster and the correct rake this wont be a problem.

I didnt realize that there was a problem with the tank vent. Never affected our boat. However if you should ever redo your tank I would suggest you use nothing less than a 3/4 line vent. The more air in the holding tank the more good bacteria the less the smell. Also helps to only use fresh water also

Dave


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

Just been reading this thread.
I have just aquired a C&C 35 III.
I have a few issues to take care of. 
A leak at the edson steering pedestal, a leak by the port side window. Mosture meater read high in a few areas of deck but surveyor says not soft. needs sealed and dried recommended drilling. has any one tried this


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats on the new boat. Window leaks are common on our C&C's and there is a definate procedure for replacement. South Shore Yachst has a lot of the older C&C parts also.

As far as the pedestal leak, what exactly is leaking. Is the floor soft? This also goes for the decks. Our boats are alol blasa cored at least to the waterline, some all the way. If water intrudes it can wet and destroy the core requiring complete replacement of the area in the worst case scenario. First thing is to identify the area which is wet and also the reason. Then to see the level of repair. Some are easy quick fixes like drying out or digging out the core and refilling with epoxy. Some may require a cut out and reglassing, depends on how much the area is affected. Hopefullu you areas are not in load bearing areas such as chainplates.

In any event it is imperative that all thru deck/ hulkl ntrustions be checked and sealed corrrectly and maintain their integrity.

I also suggest you join the C&C owners group

C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center

You have a great boat (obviously I am prejudiced as I own a C&C 35MKIII also)...fast and comfortable to cruise with and see was initially made well. It up to the owner to mainatain that. Post some pictures when you get a chance of her and affected areas.

Dave


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

My guess is that area under the pedestal is plywood core. The rest of the cockpit is mostly balsa core. Lean heavily against the pedestal. If the sole flexes your core is likely shot. See attached picks of the core fix on my 29-2. If the plywood is wet then drilling hole/epoxy fill won't work. The plywood holds water and it has no way to get out. The plywood is shot. solid glass area under pedestal and rudder post is now 1-1/2" glass. No water problems anymore and a really solid pedestal. Well worth the $2500 it cost to have it done.


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

I was there with surveyor and pedestal didn't move or flex. the hammer sounded solid. but drips down onto fuel tank. 2500 dollar repair a bit scary.
getting a rig survey as well insurance require. looks to be all good but you cant tell about the ends surveyor recomended renewing the ends of the rods.
there is a few other odd anoyances. hose's ect.
hope to get her ready for a trip up the coast this spring.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Good advice the ends of the rods. Propably original and 29 years old. Should be done every 10 years. See if you can find where the water is getting in.

Dave


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

The floor around the pedestal is very thick. I hope you don't have a major repair. You should be able to see the pedestal bolts and the cutout for the cables from below.

I love my 35/3. I second Chef's recommendation that you join the c&c group. They know these boats inside and out - literally.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jsaronson said:


> The floor around the pedestal is very thick. I hope you don't have a major repair. You should be able to see the pedestal bolts and the cutout for the cables from below.
> 
> I love my 35/3. I second Chef's recommendation that you join the c&c group. They know these boats inside and out - literally.


J is right. The floor there is over 2 inches thick there as I have bored through it and installed an alternate SS tube on feet for additional electronics wires which would not fit into my SS pedestal gaurd for the Radar, Autopilot, and Chartplotter. Maybe there is a leak on the bolts, or the seal under the pedestal,

The pedestal is located aft of the fuel tank. Is that where the leak is?


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm thinking of getting a 35-3 as my next boat. Anyone out there have experience with the 35-3 centerboard model? Any major things to look out for? How well does the center board model sail, leaks, etc. Thanks.

BTW- The 35-3 is a Rob Ball design like the 27-5, 29-2,30-2,33-2. I like his work and think he is been very under rated as a designer.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Chef has the c/b model. You might want to send him a PM. I have not sailed the c/b model, mine is a keel. Awesome boats!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Sanduskysailor said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 35-3 as my next boat. Anyone out there have experience with the 35-3 centerboard model? Any major things to look out for? How well does the center board model sail, leaks, etc. Thanks.
> 
> BTW- The 35-3 is a Rob Ball design like the 27-5, 29-2,30-2,33-2. I like his work and think he is been very under rated as a designer.


Centerboard is a great feature. Allows you too reef later 20-22 vs 17 and point higher to windward. It is a weighted CB so it doesnt rattle lilke some other fiberglass ones and needs to be put down gently. It gives great flexibily to gunkholing as you can decrease draft to 4'6.

The model ois simple and operates with a cabin top winch. It is a rope cable which does down to the keel and pulls the board up around a piviting pin. 
No leaks. It does howver mnean your boat has a very shallow bildge

The 35 MKIII k/c is a rocket ship of a boat in light and moderate air up to 20.
She will sail faster than most larger Bene/ Cat hunters and point higher. She and the Sabre 34/36 are similar with the Js a little quicker. PHRF is 127. She is a very well balanced boat and handles seas up to 10-12 ( good interval) easily

We dont race ours anymore and use her a a costal cruiser going to Long Island and New England in the Atlantic from the Chessie. These are not production boats in the interior but are quite comfortable and spacious. V berth is large and longer than almost any you will find. Anchor locker is huge and you can stand in it and close the lid. Lots of good quality winches ours has 7, Well designed Nav station. Geat table configuaration. We actually leave ours down so we have a couch as most of our meals are in the cockpit. The table is off to the side though so going forward is easy and safe and you wont get impaled. Head is small but definately manageable, Galley is well set up with a large box for refrigeration. Cockpit is perfect for safety. Ours is set up to singlehand as I do that a fair amount. Engine shoehorned in but is accessable. Good solid chainplates

What to watch for. Windows like all other C&C leak, mast step, C&C smile and all thru deck and hull for proper setting so no core infiltration.

I highly recommend this model. It is the best of the 35 and one of the best models they ever made

We have added many items to ours fore comfort such as tankage etc so PM me for more info


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