# Any members interested in a Cruising with Children Forum?



## Cruisingdad

I would like to know what or if any members would be interested in a Cruising with Kids forum? I think we could add a sailing with kids. I am not sure there is a great (and well populated) resource on this on the net. There are a few, but I have found them pretty low on replies and threads.

I have to say upfront that although I would not stop kids from posting here, and would moderate the forum as best I can, this is not a kids forum. We do not have the ability or tools to keep any wierdos out. Keep that in mind. But I thought up those parents that might want to coordinate with other parents for get-togethers, questions on schooling, safety, preparation, and general life aboard might be helpful. 

I would apprecaite the other members (and mods) thoughts on the matter. Remember, I am heading off so a lot of this will be up to you guys and gals to make successful.

Brian


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## tdw

...What a horrid idea Brian. Did you have a bad night ? Toothache perhaps ? Indigestion maybe ? Gout ? Couldn't sleep so you thought you'd share your pain with the rest of us ? ...

Good Lord !! Good Heavens !! Good Grief !!

If you encourage the blighters they'll be everywhere and into everything. There is absolutely no stopping them once they get going. What's more its rumoured that after a few years they turn into you and me. Now that is not a pretty thought. 

Seriously.....I leave this one up to the parents and I guess grandparents out there. Me, I can think of nothing worse but then again I'm not absolutely convinced that cruising with adults is a winner. 

Do you know that someone at our club called me a misanthrope a few weeks backs ? He was shocked that I wasn't offended. 

ps - I refuse point blank to moderate an online creche.


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## krozet

not interested.


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## SVAuspicious

There are a number of fora on the subject already, including on the SSCA board, the Captains and Admirals list, and others.


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## St Anna

I think its a good idea but because of the predators out there, limit it to a forum for parents who cruise with kids - We have issues in common which a forum could solve. So no posting by kids and I vote for it.
PS I tried to warn you about wombat, he has 'gone off' again.


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## sailingdog

The fuzzy rat often goes off his meds... 



St Anna said:


> I think its a good idea but because of the predators out there, limit it to a forum for parents who cruise with kids - We have issues in common which a forum could solve. So no posting by kids and I vote for it.
> PS I tried to warn you about wombat, he has 'gone off' again.


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## danielgoldberg

I think it's a great idea. Many many people sail with kids. Even if not full time liveaboard cruisers, a huge number of people cruise for weekends/weeks/months with kids, and a forum focusing on that would be a welcome addition, in my view.


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## smackdaddy

That sounds fun. I'm up.

Or am I one of the weirdos to which you refer?


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## tdw

sailingdog said:


> The fuzzy rat often goes off his meds...


hey, no one ever said the fuzziness was on the outside , now did they ?


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## blt2ski

I seem to recall this beibg asked about 3-4 yrs ago, maybe 2-3............Nothing occured then for various and sundry reasons.

With that in mind, while I do not have an issue with it, it would take a bit more moderating than a normal area would. As such, It would be nice to seee folks from around the world able to watch it at reasonable intervals to keep the riff raff away, not including our fuzzy friend from down under! 

In the end, I am rather ambivalent to the idea, could be good, then again, it could be bad......

Marty


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## danielgoldberg

blt2ski said:


> With that in mind, while I do not have an issue with it, it would take a bit more moderating than a normal area would.


Sailors talking about sailing with kids and the related issues would require more moderating? If we can survive anchor/Hunter/MacGregor debates, I would think talking about ways to entertain kiddies aboard could be managed easily enough.


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## blt2ski

Maybe I am reading Brians OP wrong.....are we talking "for the kids to talk?" or " what/how to deal with kids issues while cruising"?

If the latter, then no, it would/should not need to be moderated more. If the first, ie kids discussing with kids, then my initial quote is correct.

Marty


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## cruisingmom

Cruisingdad, best wishes with your upcoming cruise! ( I assume you are headed off with kids). I have found plenty of opportunity to talk with other parents cruising with kids within the existing Sailnet forums, or by posting a particular question.However, I am sure that you could start a new forum, and people would respond.
Don't worry about kids joining in, all the kids are on Facebook anyway. Best wishes, whatever you decide. Sincerely cruisingmom ( no connection).


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## Faster

I've always been one strongly in favour of sailing/cruising with kids from the earliest ages, and I'm sure there are all kinds of good ideas out there on how to entertain/teach/occupy the younguns while aboard.

But given the relatively low thread count on the subject now, I wonder if a dedicated thread is worthwhile, or would it just represent more 'clutter' on the site.... 

Could be, though, that a dedicated thread would generate more interest.


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## Cruisingdad

Wow. I thought this would get more responses than it has and more interet.

Lets see what comes out over the next few days and we will try and make a decision here.

Brian


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## Superpickle

:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher

I feeel your Fear.. 
And the Fear of those concerned with the Welfare and Protection from this crappy world.
Anyone ever see Facebook or My Space.. Its a Meat market for Petos..and they are ON IT in force, as children.. 
I may be over reacting, BUT, I dont think you can be Too cautious in this regard.
Wouldnt want to have to Worry about my Grand kids on the net.. in our home, they are NOT allowed, though they are only 7 & 10.. But later it may be more difficult. the ten yr old already has a lot of TEXT stuff with a few in her school... well, she DID, till the phone was shut off.. 
YUP, im Paranoid as hell over this world.. 
Just my Extreme view..





tdw said:


> ...What a horrid idea Brian. Did you have a bad night ? Toothache perhaps ? Indigestion maybe ? Gout ? Couldn't sleep so you thought you'd share your pain with the rest of us ? ...
> 
> Good Lord !! Good Heavens !! Good Grief !!
> 
> If you encourage the blighters they'll be everywhere and into everything. There is absolutely no stopping them once they get going. What's more its rumoured that after a few years they turn into you and me. Now that is not a pretty thought.
> 
> Seriously.....I leave this one up to the parents and I guess grandparents out there. Me, I can think of nothing worse but then again I'm not absolutely convinced that cruising with adults is a winner.
> 
> Do you know that someone at our club called me a misanthrope a few weeks backs ? He was shocked that I wasn't offended.
> 
> ps - I refuse point blank to moderate an online creche.


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## Superpickle

HEY, Cruising DAD.. 
I lost track of your Posts and Progress .. Is there a Thread ???

Paul.....


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## Cruisingdad

Hey Everyone, in case it was not crystal clear, this is not meant for kids to come chat!! We went through that discussion about 2 or 3 years ago. My point was that I cannot stop it if they do. But hey... I cannot stop it now!

The point of this forum is so that we can organize all the kids sailing and cruising related stuff in one place and have a dedicated forum to the matter. We have a lot of stuff here on it already, spread around, between gneral discussion, cruising, living aboard, and seamanship. 

I personally thought it was a good idea, but I also respect other's opinions to the contrary. My only fear/concern, is one more forum and whether it would be populated.

And fuzzy - BITE ME! No, bite sailingdog. I don't want raibes!

Anyways, hope that clears things up.

B


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## sailingdog

Either do I... and I don't want a big fuzzy rodent gnawing on me.



Cruisingdad said:


> Hey Everyone, in case it was not crystal clear, this is not meant for kids to come chat!! We went through that discussion about 2 or 3 years ago. My point was that I cannot stop it if they do. But hey... I cannot stop it now!
> 
> The point of this forum is so that we can organize all the kids sailing and cruising related stuff in one place and have a dedicated forum to the matter. We have a lot of stuff here on it already, spread around, between gneral discussion, cruising, living aboard, and seamanship.
> 
> I personally thought it was a good idea, but I also respect other's opinions to the contrary. My only fear/concern, is one more forum and whether it would be populated.
> 
> *And fuzzy - BITE ME! No, bite sailingdog. I don't want raibes!*
> 
> Anyways, hope that clears things up.
> 
> B


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## Bene505

I'm for it. It would be good to join and get an email when someone posts to that forum, like the email I get now with the Long Island forum.

Regards,
Brad


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## NCountry

We had a suprise enter our home two years ago and now the poor little girl walks with a tilt. Been aboard since she was a month old. (Mom was pulling sails 2 weeks before she was born)
We spent a lot of time looking for information about kids, expecially the really little ones, onboard. There was information but it was spread out from here to wombat land.
Might be nice to make some attempt to pull it all together.


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## bljones

yeah, that's what sailnet needs- another forum.

No, I am not anti-kid, but I am anti-clutter- there are already waaaaaaaayyyyy too many underutilized categories here already simply making the index page too busy.

And if the other sites with kid-cruising sections aren't getting much traffic, then that may answer your question- a "kid-cruising" section may simply be the answer to a question that nobody has asked.


HOWEVER...
Based on a post started here last week, maybe a "kid-boat" thread may be an idea. Sorta a "kid-cruisers check in!" thread so that families can find other families- and then see how things develop from there.


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## Stillraining

Well now that I understand its *not* a kids chat room...go for it!..

You will know in short order if its warented or not and can remove it later if deemed not so...Right?


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## Cruisingdad

Stillraining said:


> Well now that I understand its *not* a kids chat room...go for it!..
> 
> You will know in short order if its warented or not and can remove it later if deemed not so...Right?


true


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## danielgoldberg

blt2ski said:


> Maybe I am reading Brians OP wrong.....are we talking "for the kids to talk?" or " what/how to deal with kids issues while cruising"?
> 
> If the latter, then no, it would/should not need to be moderated more. If the first, ie kids discussing with kids, then my initial quote is correct.
> 
> Marty


Gotcha, now I see what you mean. I think he meant the latter.


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## chall03

CD. 

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Obviously not something for everyone on here, but hey it may be a case of build it and they will come......


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## wind_magic

I think it is a bad idea simply because we already have so many forums and sub-forums that it is impossible to check them all.

An example is gear, electronics, and electrical systems, do we really need three forums for this ? I find it annoying to click on gear and then have to click on electronics and then have to click on electrical systems all to find out what is going on in the gear forums, and then when you post in a subforum like electronics nobody answers it because the posts are spread out so much. Maybe the diesel subforum has a use. Me, I'd prefer just "gear" that had all of those subforums posts in it.

Another example is cruising and liveaboards with the separate provisioning forum, are cruising and living aboard really so different that they need their own forums ? Maybe, I would argue yes they are different enough for their own forums. But provisioning, few people post to it even when they do have a provisioning issue, they end up posting in general or in cruising instead, because the provisioning subforum is lost under live aboard and cruising and nobody ever seems to read it or post to it. Provisioning is one of the subjects I am most interested in and even I would like to see that subforum disappear, at least that way I'd know I wasn't missing any provisioning posts by not checking the subforum on a regular basis, because those posts would be in cruising or general or somewhere else that I do check often.

So I guess I'm saying I don't like the idea of a family forum simply because I think we already have enough forums and it would end up being yet another series of mouse clicks. At some point those mouse clicks are like the sound of little mouse feet running through a maze. 



chall03 said:


> Obviously not something for everyone on here, but hey it may be a case of build it and they will come......


Or maybe just another oubliette for posts.


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## bljones

Wind, you could always just click on "new posts" to see what is new, but from a thread starting standpoint, I agree, it is a pain in the neck. If i have a question about my tach on my yanmar instrument panel, do i post it in gear and maintenance? elcetronics? diesel subforum? If my wife is asking the question, does it belong in Hersailnet?


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## wind_magic

bljones said:


> Wind, you could always just click on "new posts" to see what is new, but from a thread starting standpoint, I agree, it is a pain in the neck. If i have a question about my tach on my yanmar instrument panel, do i post it in gear and maintenance? elcetronics? diesel subforum? If my wife is asking the question, does it belong in Hersailnet?


I use "new posts" most of the time, but that has its weaknesses too because it tends to decide for itself when posts are no longer "new".


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## chall03

wind_magic said:


> So I guess I'm saying I don't like the idea of a family forum simply because I think we already have enough forums and it would end up being yet another series of mouse clicks. At some point those mouse clicks are like the sound of little mouse feet running through a maze.
> 
> Or maybe just another oubliette for posts.


I do take your point Windy and well yeah your right.

I certainly would love to see more info, and discussion on family cruising. Perhaps like your suggesting another subforum is a bad idea.
Really cruising with kids is well just cruising....with kids.

As an experiment wouldn't it be interesting to get rid of 70% of the subforums, let people just post under broader headings and see how it affects the flow of posts and people's ability to navigate around the site?


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## Cruisingdad

Hey guys, one of my thoughts was to do the forum, see how it works out, AND clean up some of the subforums. You are right, we do not need all of those. Thoughts?


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## smackdaddy

Go fer it dude.


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## wind_magic

I like it too.


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## sailingdog

Go for it CD... some of the sub-forums have never been used, and some are very rarely used. Condensing some of them makes a lot of sense.


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## Cruisingdad

What about adding a Bite Me Sailingdog subforum? Well, maybe make it a forum of its own? Or better yet, how about you have to click on that to get pointed to the General Forum? I think it would really increase the traffic on Sailnet. Are you with me guys (and gals)!???


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## smackdaddy

As long as we don't have to get routed through some super-secret tiny url analytics tunnel with each click, I'm all over it.


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## JamyZ

*kids on the water*



NCountry said:


> We had a suprise enter our home two years ago and now the poor little girl walks with a tilt...


I'm new to board. My wife and I are retiring in 5 years to a sailboat and our daughter is 2mos old. We would like to hear of other parents experiences on the water with children.


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## aqwert5

Please accept my vote for a "Cruising w/ Kids" forum.

I've found people on this site super helpful and extremely knowledgeable. I think having more discussions on this subject will only help those of us just getting our feet wet.

Regards,
David


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## bellefonte

I also would benefit from a cruising with kids forum. I have a 1.4 year old and want to get him on a boat as soon as possible. My wife is not so sure and some safety ideas would be most welcome.


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## St Anna

My boy came out on sailboats since he was a few months old. Cruising when he was 3. Age 5, he was steering a course, running about in the dinghy and the kayak. Using the vhf to keep in contact with friends on other yachts. 

The rules were lifejacktet and harness when topsides. He soon realised the unfairness of this and soon enough we all had to wear jackets and harness'!!

He learnt responsibility from a very early age and a curious mind to learn to help with electrical'electronics/navigating (which has helped now at school with things like vectors and orienteering etc).

Ask him if he likes boating and he shrugs his shoulders - because its normal for him and he is a teenager!

We planned our trips very carefully for safety reasons and never put family in a situation where they were scared. eg Great Keppel Island/s & Magnetic Is/ Palm Group/ Hinchinbrook/ Pancake Creek/ Moreton Bay.

There are other sides to the coin - a family stuck in a cabin in bad weather for days will become less than postcard perfect. We had plenty of board games and an X Box.

Otherwise - schoolwork finished in an hour or two, then fishing, snorkelling, exploring, treasure hunting, watching dolphins play, whale watching, playing with the cat etc etc.


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## St Anna

Cruisingdad said:


> What about adding a Bite Me Sailingdog subforum? !???


Hey Mrs CD, better put Brian back on - he is a little more tactful to our lovable mutt


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## bellefonte

*great post*



St Anna said:


> My boy came out on sailboats since he was a few months old. Cruising when he was 3. Age 5, he was steering a course, running about in the dinghy and the kayak. Using the vhf to keep in contact with friends on other yachts.
> 
> The rules were lifejacktet and harness when topsides. He soon realised the unfairness of this and soon enough we all had to wear jackets and harness'!!
> 
> He learnt responsibility from a very early age and a curious mind to learn to help with electrical'electronics/navigating (which has helped now at school with things like vectors and orienteering etc).
> 
> Ask him if he likes boating and he shrugs his shoulders - because its normal for him and he is a teenager!
> 
> We planned our trips very carefully for safety reasons and never put family in a situation where they were scared. eg Great Keppel Island/s & Magnetic Is/ Palm Group/ Hinchinbrook/ Pancake Creek/ Moreton Bay.
> 
> There are other sides to the coin - a family stuck in a cabin in bad weather for days will become less than postcard perfect. We had plenty of board games and an X Box.
> 
> Otherwise - schoolwork finished in an hour or two, then fishing, snorkelling, exploring, treasure hunting, watching dolphins play, whale watching, playing with the cat etc etc.


thanks for this. Great perspective


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## sailingdog

Oh, did CD say something... I guess I should take him off the ignore list again...


St Anna said:


> Hey Mrs CD, better put Brian back on - he is a little more tactful to our lovable mutt


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## paulk

*Please see thread on clutter in "suggestions"*

If you're going to have a separate forum for cruising with children, there should also be a separate one for racing with children, just to be fair, in case someone wants to do that. To be absolutely thorough, the forums should be split between boys and girls, too. (There's already a separate her sailnet forum, so this would just be following precedent.) And since cruising with babies is really different from cruising with older kids, separate categories by age would be a good idea too. We need a forum for cruising with pets too. Please separate the dogs and cats into two different areas, with a third for birds, and a fourth for "other" pets. We don't want to offend anyone, so perhaps a separate forum for "no pet" sailors would be a good idea too. To ensure only dog owners use the dog forum, perhaps a sign-in with an AKC membership number would work. Is there a similar outfit for cats? Perhaps that could be the first question on the Cat (Feline, not Catboat or Catamaran) forum.

I have both cruised and raced with children, and could probably have some helpful suggestions. I am not likely to peruse a separate "cruising with children" forum, however. If a question about children came up on a cruising forum, I'd probably see it and respond if I had useful input.

Perhaps its a site navigation issue. Rather than checking all the "new" posts, I search the topics that interest me, looking to be helpful, but also seeking threads that might teach me something. If the list of forums gets too long, I'm going to simply ignore a lot of the categories or go elsewhere. Cruisers with children questions should be able to search the "Cruisers" forum for threads about children, infants, boys, or girls. Having a separate forum for them cuts them off from (possibly) valuable input and ideas that people whose primary focus is NOT children might have.

Yahoo/groups did this multi-dissecting of their sailing site and killed it, because no one wanted to wait three days for a reply when there simply wasn't a sufficient critical mass to warrant the tiny group served. Sailors are already a minority. Help us work together to solve problems, instead of cutting us into smaller and smaller groups that provide less and less input.


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## kwaltersmi

Why not have the forum? If someone opposes the idea, then they don't have to join, read or contribute. What's to lose? It's not the job of Sailnet to keep our children away from the dangers of the web. I don't really even get why we need a thread to decide. Add the forum, then if there's no activity during a set period, just delete it or let it sit dormant. Why five pages of discussion?


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## Cruisingdad

Guys, I have decided to go forward with this. If it sucks, I will take it out.

However, I have also considered what the other posters have said and feel we should consider removing some forums. I will start another sticky on how to make Sailnet cleaner and better.

Brian


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## JamyZ

awesome... we have a lot of questions and things to consider as we get our little girl ready for long-term cruising/sailing


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## Cruisingdad

Ok guys... I tried to move some of the "kids" stuff in this forum to populate it. This stuff was scattered all over! If I missed some stuff that would be helpful here, let me know. I could not get all of it or I would be doing this all day. Hopefully this will give us a good start.

I am open to opinions on what can make it better.

Brian


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## JamyZ

*where do your kids sleep?*

my wife and i have been wondering where to safely secure our little girl while she sleeps when under sail at sea. My thoughts were of using a hammock over her bunk so that she doesnt roll or get tossed off the bunk. any thoughts or experiences?


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## bljones

instead of a hammock, lee cloths or lee boards maybe a better idea. A hammock rolls when the boat rolls, which may lead to bruising and seasickness, while lee cloths /boards will simply keep her from leaving her bunk.


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## JamyZ

bljones said:


> instead of a hammock, lee cloths or lee boards maybe a better idea. A hammock rolls when the boat rolls, which may lead to bruising and seasickness, while lee cloths /boards will simply keep her from leaving her bunk.


i was thinking the hammock would keep her safe from touching any hard areas or rolling off as well as help her to move with the boat... is that wrong thinking?


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## Cruisingdad

We used a board across the V berth to keep Chase from coming out. THe reality is that they do not really get tossed much from side to side. I doubt it will be much of an issue unless you are going offshore.

I would be concerned about a hammock being a choking or suffocation hazzard. Just my thoughts.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad

Here is a pic of my mom holding chase. Behind her you can see in the V berth and what we made to hold him in (looks like the side of a crib, but easily made with a drill press and purchaseing small dowels, secured in a 1X2 strip of oak). THis is a pic inside our previous boat, a C380









Brian


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## paulk

*Fascinating.*



Cruisingdad said:


> Ok guys... I tried to move some of the "kids" stuff in this forum to populate it. This stuff was scattered all over! If I missed some stuff that would be helpful here, let me know. I could not get all of it or I would be doing this all day. Hopefully this will give us a good start.
> 
> I am open to opinions on what can make it better.
> 
> Brian


There are 42 different threads about cruising with children... in total. Since 2000. The one with the most input is this one, discussing the advisability of having it as a separate forum.

Are the Sailnet forums searchable "in toto", or did you have to search each separate forum to find threads relating to children? From your post, it sounds like the latter. If users have to search each forum separately, having lots of separate forums makes it harder to find threads on a specific topic, not easier.


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## Stillraining

Paul...Just hit the new post button...It doesnt mater where people posted the question you will see it....The ONLY difficulty in having 10K different Subtopics is finding the right topic to start your new thread under...other then that its a moot point really.

As far as searching goes..You don't want to use the Forum search engine you want to use the Sailnet Specific Google one...It will find them all!

And Brian on that subject another forum I belong to has that option in the drop down box when you click on Search so you might look into that as well.....purdy please


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## negrini

That's a cage Brian !!??!!


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## Cruisingdad

paulk said:


> There are 42 different threads about cruising with children... in total. Since 2000. The one with the most input is this one, discussing the advisability of having it as a separate forum.
> 
> Are the Sailnet forums searchable "in toto", or did you have to search each separate forum to find threads relating to children? From your post, it sounds like the latter. If users have to search each forum separately, having lots of separate forums makes it harder to find threads on a specific topic, not easier.


Paul,

I know you are not happy about the thread, but be patient with me. It is the first of many changes. However, thre are more than 42 threads here that are kid related, I jsut grabbed a bunch of them that were easy targets and pulled them over. It was not my intention or interest to pull over all of them. It just seemed to make sense to pull over some of them.

I also want to consolidate some of the forums here to make it easier for others to navigate, including yourself. That was why I started the other thread on suggestions. Also, if the forum does not do well and get much traffic, I will move it back to general or something. Let's just call this fourm a beta test.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Be patient with us.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad

negrini said:


> That's a cage Brian !!??!!


Funny thing was that when he got irritated and wanted more attention, he would start grabbing his toys and ejecting them out of his berth. A few of them left some nice little marks in the teak/holly floor - which are undoubtedly still there to this day!!

Brian


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## Stillraining

Like father like son..

Still don't see that Google search option....lets call that a beta test as well...


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