# Fischer Panda Generators - Dangerous Defects



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is an excerpt from a letter written (June 2004) to Anthony Rushton, President of Fischer Panda

As you are aware, I have had numerous problems with my generator (Fischer-Panda Model 4000DVS) since day one and have logged not less than 60 telephone calls to your service department over the last four years, including personal trips to your facility. During this time I have acted in good faith and showed an enormous amount of restraint in accepting increasing costs, abuses and frustrations as a result of your defective product and poor support. This generator was installed new in a new sailboat (Island Packet 45) by your authorized representative, strictly following your technical recommendations.

One of the most frustrating occurred for the first 18 months or so of ownership, where we just could not keep the generator running more than a few hours at a time. I spoke with many of your employees such as Paulo Oliveira, Bob Gruber and others. I ended up replacing a number of components at their suggestion with no success. After two years of frustration, I decided to remove the head and valves to inspect further (at my expense, as was all the labor). Upon removal it became evident the head had a crack. When inspected closely the crack showed that it was due to manufacturing defects showing poor material flow in the casting. When I confronted your people with this evidence they admitted then (and only then) that yes, “Panda was aware that there was a batch of bad castings for those models…” They did at that time offer to supply all the required parts which I picked up in person. After nearly two years of being subjected to many tribulations and frustrations your people finally admitted to this problem which was known all along. The concealment of this type of information is reprehensible and crosses the boundaries of fraud as the unit was well within its original express warranty period (Ref. UCC, Song Beverly and Mag Moss). 

This is just one example of many that illustrates a pattern of cover-ups by your company for a known defective product. In all the instances, whenever any problem surfaced, the attitude of your service department was one of giving me or my mechanics the runaround every time we called, trying to blame the problem on outside influences and comments to the effect of "never having seen that problem before…”. To date, the generator has never provided with more than two consecutive days of trouble free operation despite having been maintained with the utmost care and attention. Even for the times the unit ran, its output has not exceeded 15 amps without blowing a lot of smoke and soot.

The latest problem and one that really reached my limits of patience was when my 3½ year-old daughter became violently ill during a recent trip. She started unexpectedly to feel dizzy and vomit during the night. The symptoms were somewhat relieved during the day while she sat outside but came back the next night. After investigation, we discovered that the generator, which ran at night, was leaking exhaust fumes through a small crack in the exhaust elbow casting. This crack has all the indications of another bad casting and/or a design defect. No warning or any alarm was detected from the generator (unless you consider my daughter’s exposure to carbon monoxide poisoning and the subsequent violent health reaction as its “warning”). Luckily we expect her to recover after prompt medical attention and her physician’s recommendations, but, at this time, we worry about any latent, undetected, or potential problems that may surface in the future. On a previous occasion recently, two adult guests had complained of headaches and dizziness during the night but which cleared the next day and we assumed was due to the boat’s natural movements at anchor.

I related this last problem to your Service Manager, Mark Yerek on May 31st. Mr. Yerek indicated that he would get back to me. It was not until June 7th that I was able to reach him again, after several tries, during which time he played down the health effects of my daughter’s exposure, stating that they were: “inconsequential due to our research and tests that shows the emissions are insignificant” as well as refused to assist in any significant manner. Mr. Yerek’s comments provided a level of knowledge of 1) your company is aware of previous defects involving leaks of carbon monoxide and other toxic fumes, 2) your company has not taken any steps to correct these defects in your products. Mr. Yerek’s attitude and disregard for the seriousness of the matter prompted the preparation of the attached lawsuit.

As there is quite a number of customers with similar problems, we are investigating the options of filing a class action on behalf of all the owners of these generators.


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## hamiam (Dec 15, 2000)

if you search the archives a guy posted a message a while back saying that he was taking down his website, www.fischerpandasucks.com as part of a settlement with the company over problems he was having with his generator. The situation above reminds us that one should have a CO detector; children are quiet susceptible to CO poisoning.


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## gregcan (Feb 7, 2016)

So, this model Fischer Panda generator (4000DVS) is apparently petrol powered and not Diesel... It must be, because Diesel engines do not produce CO, only CO2 which although an asphyxiating gas in high concentrations is not poisonous... 

This quote however seems to dispel the possibility of a petrol powered Fischer Panda:- 

"As petrol is not suitable for marine uses, all Fischer Panda marine generators are driven by diesel engines from manufacturers such as Farymann, Kubota and Mercedes Benz."

Perhaps this is the reason the website was taken down... It was simply not true, and therefore considered slanderous.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Hmmm... after some dozen years since anybody had any interest in this subject, somebody decided to chime in with this preposterous statement:
"...It must be, because Diesel engines do not produce CO,..."

Of course, Diesel Engines produce Carbon Monoxide. Maybe not as much as a Petrol Engine in poor condition, but still some, nonetheless.
It has to do with Stochastic Equilibriums; in statistical terms, one can derive all of the probable combustion byproducts of a Cetane-Oxygen reaction, while safely ignoring any or all other reactions.

Diesel Fuel is not simply Cetane. Diesel fuels are a complex mix of whatever distills out of the Distillation Process at the right time and temperatures, as well as whatever is wished to dispose of therein otherwise. A lot of it is Cetane, yet still...
Incomplete Combustion still occurs.

I shall now mention Buckyballs:
Around 1994, there was quite some interest in these oddities. Like Neutrinos, very difficult to detect at first, but once detected, like Neutrinos, damn difficult to ignore.
We had an Experimenter interested in Buckyballs; specifically the C-60 variety. (There are a lot of varieties...)
He did the obvious Acetone-Oxygen reduction process in a partial vacuum, and made some, but not enough to purify.
At that time, I had an old MB 240D Sedan. I scraped the exhaust pipe, gave the scrapings to the Experimenter, and he then had Buckyballs up the ying-yang. All sorts of Buckyballs, but he was simply interested in the C-60 variety at that time.
The C-60 varieties were analyzed out in an Electron Cyclotron Resonance Ion Source, and the Experimenter could then determine what might be called "Isotopic Carbon Polar Moments"; the effect of 13C on normal 12C Molecular Structures. (This is of intense interest to this day among Primordial Nuclear Synthesists. Carbon-13 is a Fermion, regular Carbon-12 is a Boson. Different rules apply.)
Up until then, it was inconceivable that Buckyballs were common in Mercedes Diesel tailpipes. Nobody looked.

So, to get back to that "First Post":
"It was simply not true, and therefore considered slanderous."
There is a difference between Libel and Slander. Libel is generally regarded as something deprecative put into print. Slander is generally regarded as something deprecative spoken out loud. Truth or Non-Truth is regarded separately, depending on Jurisdiction.

I look forward to the "Second Post".

¬Erindipity


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

gregcan said:


> So, this model Fischer Panda generator (4000DVS) is apparently petrol powered and not Diesel... It must be, because Diesel engines do not produce CO, only CO2 which although an asphyxiating gas in high concentrations is not poisonous... .


Newbieitis...digging up threads that are years old...in this case, 12 years old.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

a man, a mission, a generator


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Don0190 said:


> a man, a mission, a generator


And here we go!

A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal - Panama!
There are longer versions, but this one actually rhymes.

This is now a silly thread, unless one has Aibohphobia- the Fear Of Palndromes...
(The local CBS Sub-Station is having a "Man From U.N.C.L.E." marathon, for those of us who wish to have nothing to do with Football; it is very silly indeed. The current episode is "The Waverley Ring Affair".)

In words, drown I... so, let's try out some Nautical Palindromes, like:

Rot a renegade, wed a generator.
So many dynamos!

Bob, "Kayak Bob".

I roamed under it as a tired, nude Maori.
Saw tide rose? So red it was.
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Pull up, Eva, we're here! Wave! Pull up!

Rats at a bar grab at a star.
Murder for a jar of red rum.
Red rum, sir, _is_ murder.
Stop! Murder us not, tonsured rumpots!

Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
(This one was a work of Genius, and no, Soundgarden did _not_ create it.)

In German, a language not noted for having a sense of humor, the word for "Palindrome" is "Retroworter"...

¬Erindipity


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Some of us were around at the time of the events here.

Short version:

Geoff Schultz was very likely a difficult customer. He expected equipment to performed as specified and he got frustrated when Fischer Panda (FP) customer service stonewalled him. There really is little question that FP tried to blow him off.

Ultimately FP and Mr. Schultz came to an out of court settlement that made Mr. Schultz whole and he took down his website that described his experiences with FP.

FP is one of the more complicated generators available. The engine is just an engine but the computer controls only work well if everything is perfect. Mr. Schultz was far from the only person with major troubles with the product. Add in customer service that was very poor and the company was in trouble. They did make an investment in customer service but they are still very complicated systems. 

Bear in mind I won't buy chicken from Food Lion groceries either after the bleach debacle about 30 years ago.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

gregcan said:


> So, this model Fischer Panda generator (4000DVS) is apparently petrol powered and not Diesel... It must be, because Diesel engines do not produce CO, only CO2 which although an asphyxiating gas in high concentrations is not poisonous...
> 
> This quote however seems to dispel the possibility of a petrol powered Fischer Panda:-
> 
> ...


This is just wrong from beginning to end. Yes diesel engines do create carbon monoxide, just at lower levels than gas engines. There have been cases of people getting CO poisoning from diesels, you can get CO whenever any carbon based fuel is burned, basic chemistry.

Finally if you read the thread I think you would have seen that the web site was taken down as part of a settlement agreement, but likely would be gone by now anyway as it was 12 years ago and that would be a long time to be paying for and maintaining a website due to a grudge.


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