# Getting out of sailing? What is your decision matrix?



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Nearly put my boat up for sale today.

Haven't used her since last August. Quarantine has made it hard. 

Things have finally loosened up a bit so we could go for a trip. Got the boat cleaned up. Looks nice. 10 day trip planned. Hooked the van up to the trailer to test the trailer lights. Nothing. Hooked up spare set of trailer lights to determine if problem was trailer or van.

Right turn signal a breaks worked, but left didn't. So problem is van AND trailer. Wife saw me getting pissed and said, "why don't we just take the canoe?".

Good question. Why don't we. No trailering. No outboard. Works every time.

Maybe not so much sailing, but boat ownership.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

We don't drive 1.5hr + to sail for a day... So weather is a big driver. Even if we spend a weekend with little or no will the weather be miserable.
Boat is usually "ready to go" and only needs provisions (stowing) and taking the sail and other covers off, setting up the cockpit cushions and preparing the dink and removing the OB to the rail... if we tow. Sailing is better out "there" so day use is pretty much not happening unless we move out east... and that is not happening I suspect.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I dare say, if one questions there boat ownership over failed trailer lights, there is something more deeply going on. No doubt, the sport comes with constant maintenance. If that burden exceeds the joy, the math is simple.

I’m swinging at anchor right now. This morning, I put my foot through a sole hatch, whose stop broke. Just another day. After finishing this cup of coffee and making a nice breakfast, I’ll fix it. The rest of the day, will be worth it.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Nearly everyone I know in my area (Vermont/Lake Champlain) is either using their boat way more than usual, or has been desperately trying to find a boat to buy. When you can't realistically travel out of state (for need to quarantine upon return), a boat is a great way to spend the summer. We are on ours almost every day. The remote work from home thing has allowed for much more flexibility in our schedules, and combined with not having taken any vacation days since back in February, we have found ourselves with lots of time to use the boat. It's been a great summer here.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I misread the OP.... as going out to sail... However ... getting out of sailing for me is basically due to the following:

diminished physical capacity- Age per se is not the defining factor... but diminished physical strength, stamina, energy, sense of balance, worsening eye sight and hearing... arthritis. At some point your physical condition becomes mission critical to doing boat things. I am getting there. I don't feel as comfortable single handing as I did a few years ago. That make me dependent on "help" / company.

Not enough time to sailing/cruise because of other responsibilities... grand children, being health care proxy for my sister.

Less appealing weather. It seems that the weather is just not as inviting to be on and at the boat as it once was. July was the hottest July on record. Less wind... more rain... who knows???

Cost of ownership... insurance, mooring and storage fees... replacing aging gear... keeping up with things like cleaning, waxing, varnishing. Each of these in an older boat become more pressing. Work is more exhausting

Cruised there done that. I've been sailing the same waters for more than 3 decades and it gets both familiar and boring or certainly less exciting and compelling.

Having written the above. Our boat is our weekend home. It's our escape from where we live all year round. That is hard to give up... whether we go out sailing or not.

I am thinking that next year will be my last one with the boat for the reasons above,


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

For me personally, I usually think that the right time to get out of sailing is when my mourners are back filling my grave site, but only if there isn't a decent wind that day.

Seriously, for me, I know that there will probably come a time when I won't be able to push a big boat around. At that point I would get something smaller and work out harder to stay in shape. Of course that is easy to say now as a healthy nearly 70 year old, but at some point I may be forced to give up sailing. At that point I will look for some other passion to fill the hole left by owning my own boat; maybe mentoring others or teaching others to sail, or maybe take up sky diving.

But there have been other passions in my life that somehow lost their charm over time and which I stopped doing when they no longer were appealing enough to make demands on my time. Which is to say, I understand the question.

When I was in my late 40's I was in pretty bad shape physically and my back was giving me a lot of pain. I pretty much sat out of sailing for most of that year. It was a matter of what felt worse, my back pain or my pain from not sailing. I began doing yoga, and began using the machines at the gym to get back into shape. I rather quickly began toning up and losing weight, and with that the back pain greatly diminished. In the 20 plus years since, in a very slow progression I lost around 20 lbs and the back pain has been reduced to minimal and rare, so I am back sailing as much as ever.

But I remember thinking during the year that I sat out sailing that I might have to give up the sport. My calculus was that my boat sat in its slip way, way, way more than it went out sailing, and I was not sailing much with others. I had been forced to sit out the racing season for the first time in 35 years. It was agonizing thinking that might be the case that I had to quit sailing, and I asked myself what would I do with the rest of my life if I did. I came up with a number of answers that made some sense to me, but none were anywhere near as appealing as sailing, which is why I fought through the pain to get back into shape again. But had one of those other interests seemed sufficiently fulfilling to fill the large hole left by not sailing, I might have left the sport.

There is no formula that provides a definitive answer. At best it is weighing conflicting emotions on a individually calibrated scale. I am mentoring a couple people who are getting back into sailing after leaving it. One told me a story about needing to make a choice between sailing and spending quality time with his kids and he wisely chose spending time with his kids. He is now in his 60's and widowed and so trying to get back into sailing. He has joined a gym and is trying to get into shape since he found moving about a boat a little difficult during his ASA certification process. He is reading and watching videos, and it sounds like he has the fire in his gut to make this happen. But I also mentored a person some years ago who had a fire in his gut to go voyaging under sail, but for whom that fire seems to have gone zombie, which is to say, it seems to be dead, but he does not seem to realize it yet. For that person, a time may come to do something other than sailing to fill his time and bring joy to his life. 

Jeff


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Jeff_H said:


> For me personally, I usually think that the right time to get out of sailing is when my mourners are back filling my grave site, but only if there isn't a decent wind that day.
> 
> Jeff


Maybe a Viking Funeral is in order. Go out sailing.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

I check the forecast and if it is good, I drive the 15-20 minutes to the boat and off we go!


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I have my sailboat in storage this year, the first time in many years. I am beginning to think that was a mistake. I can have her in the water in a few days. This pandemic messed up year is the perfect year to have a sailboat at my disposal for day sailing and wasting time - and I have the time.

Jeff H. - I cannot " like " your post enough, that is great. LOL.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Like Sander I feel I am approaching an exit. Mine may be 5 years or so off. The last 3 years have included a back surgery and knee replacement which have been successful in increasing my mobility and life quality. We both are retiring by January 30. I am lucky as my wife has been a partner in this with me. It has been our lifestyle for the last 23 years. For me 48 years.

I have gone the gambit from racing, to coastal cruising. An individual sport to a family one. 

we will replace it with an RV. We love the outdoors. It puts us together. We are more dimensional in our likes than the water.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

You can't win the fight with entropy. You have to reconcile your old self (body) with your current old one...not the one in your mind and memory.... but the one you have to navigate everything in life with... including sailing which requires a large skill set.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Nearly put my boat up for sale today.
> 
> Haven't used her since last August. Quarantine has made it hard.


I find it interesting you have not sailed your boat in a year. August of 2017 was the last time I sailed, it was a bucket list sail to Desolation sail though. I still think about boats, plan for sailing, and work on sailboats all the time.

While sailing is one of my biggest passions so is mountain living. My focus now is skiing and kayaking, trying to get my boats in order so I can mix in some mountain sailing as well. I figure I have only so many years of skiing left, or at least skiing that I find enjoyable. Sailing is my retirement plan, I hope to be able to sail into my 80s.

I have raced on sailboats with skippers in their 70s. One had, had a heart attack and chose to give up helming so he switched to jib trimming and was out a few weeks later racing.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

It's interesting reading about peoples free time, but it isn't something that has happened to me. Still working just as much but now there are the extra inconveniences of mask wearing etc. Then no summer camps or school for the kids since February adds an extra dimension. 

Then there is getting parts and repairs. Forget about it. Tried to make an appointment with Honda to get my outboard serviced in March and they still haven't gotten back to me- ended up doing my own servicing, which is fine, but like maintaining a trailer, takes time. 

Then there are the boat ramps, holy smokes. Busiest ever. Every day of the week is like Canada Day. A dozen boats and trailers jockeying for space at any given time, plus the crowds gathered at the boat launches to party. Yuck.

I would like to think next year will be better, but I have my doubts.

Time seems to be the main factor, have less of it and every thing takes longer than it used to.

Guess it doesn't cost me anything to have the boat sit in my driveway for a couple years until things improve though.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

It's an interesting question, and one I admit to having pondered these last few months as well. The pandemic has thrown my whole life into a tailspin. My only home is my boat, and I can't get to it even it I wanted to. And now my normal winter plans have all disapeared as fewer people are now travelling (I normally house sit through the winter). I really don't know what I'll be doing these coming six to eight months.

But for me, owning a sailboat is not really about sailing. It's about a _lifestyle_ that is free(er) and easy(ier) than other options. It allows me to do the things that bring me joy, like living simply and cheaply, exploring and learning, and limiting my impact on this planet.

Giving up sailing would be no big deal, as long as I can replace it with something similar. There are other ways of living this life, so I guess I'm with Lin and the recently deceased Larry Pardey who wrote they'd keep up the lifestyle _*"As long as it's still fun." *_


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Arcb, unsolicited personal advice. This is not the year to make a decision, particularly one that's hard to reverse. Let it sit. If you still feel this way when the world is more normal, then maybe it is time to get out. Personally, we are using the boat a lot this year. But no real cruising, mostly day sailing and/or a night out at anchor. No desire to be in a crowd with tourists. But the birds, the wind, the water, and the fish are still there. Truth is, I like them better than the tourists .


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

My need to sail to far destinations has very much faded over the years. Mostly because I have been to most of the "goto" spots here in the Northeast U.S. in my younger days. I don't feel the need to revisit when I can have an enjoyable sail for however long I want without the fatigue and tediousness of a long day's sail trying to get to the next destination. In recent years I was really enjoying sailing the 6 nautical mile sail to the next harbor. I'd rent a mooring for a few days to hang out and go ashore to visit various restaurants. With the COVID around that has me thinking why bother doing that this year. The restaurant experience will have become more restrictive and less pleasant along with walking around wearing a mask when ashore. Still I am grateful to have the boat to hangout on the mooring in the homeport. I enjoy my morning coffee in the cockpit reminding myself how lucky I am to have a boat I can use as my own private island. How I can still slip over the side and enjoy an hour swim anytime I want to (something I can't do on land with health clubs closed) . Then enjoy a different sunset every night. Watching Osprey patrol the harbor for fish never gets old too. I stay on board for as long as the weather holds and then make quick trips back home when things turn foul. I pickup mail, do laundry and re-provision before returning back to the boat. It helps that I can pretty much ignore the COVID issues living this lifestyle this season too.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

mbianka said:


> too.


Sounds similar to us


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Arcb said:


> It's interesting reading about peoples free time, but it isn't something that has happened to me. Still working just as much but now there are the extra inconveniences of mask wearing etc. Then no
> 
> I would like to think next year will be better, but I have my doubts.
> 
> ...


Arcb Frist, I have to say. I read your original post without looking at who posted it. My jaw dropped and my heart sank when saw it was you. That said I can relate to the time issue. Between work, Covid, and some back problems I've only had my boat out once this year.

However, the back is better, my phasing it to retriment started this week. I see things better soon (that or world will come to an end)

Passing some good karma to you... You have an advantage over me. I can't store my boat in my driveway and storage fees are getting ridiculous.

From a selfish standpoint, I hope you hang in there and I can see you on the water after I'm fully retired.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

chef2sail said:


> Sounds similar to us





Arcb said:


> It's interesting reading about peoples free time, but it isn't something that has happened to me. Still working just as much but now there are the extra inconveniences of mask wearing etc. Then no summer camps or school for the kids since February adds an extra dimension.
> 
> Then there is getting parts and repairs. Forget about it. Tried to make an appointment with Honda to get my outboard serviced in March and they still haven't gotten back to me- ended up doing my own servicing, which is fine, but like maintaining a trailer, takes time.
> 
> ...


Arcb:

Sounds like you have a bit of COVID-19 Malaze. A lot of it gong around.

Though as you lament it is not getting easier as we age. IMO one needs to adjust and set the bar a little lower to avoid being overwhelmed. I've come to realize an over ambitious schedule can lead to disappointment at the end of the day that not everything on the list was crossed off. So I make it a point to try and just set one goal per day. While working on making the new sail cover in the off season I might set the day's goal of installing fasteners along the bottom cover and not think I would also sew the batten pockets too. Because inevitably something on the list takes longer than I thought it would and I don't always make the progress I think I should have. But, one goal made always seems like progress.

I also adjust things for comfort. For example when getting out of the dingy these days I carry a small knee pad I place on the dock. It really helps keeps the knees from the pain of climbing onto the hard dock. I never use to do it before but, it helps to avoid being reminded of the nuisance pains in aging limbs.

In short we all come to realize we can't do as much as we use to do or as fast as we use to it. It might take longer but, once the boat is in the water it all seems worth it. Especially these days.

I too notice how many more people are out on their watercraft. Whether it be boats, Jet ski, Kayak or paddle board. A wide range of ages and a number of gals out on their own or with female friends more so than in past years. It's good to see so many out enjoying life. So should you.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> .....I usually think that the right time to get out of sailing is when my mourners are back filling my grave site, but only if there isn't a decent wind that day.


That line is a keeper!

While life and sailing can be full of disappointments, there is always one more incredible day on the water out there, if you keep looking for it.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm lucky. I wake up and after I've had breakfast and done those dishes, I can usually bring my water bottle to the helm and my wife has the boat read to go. What's that saying about prying one's cold dead fingers off the helm, or whatever.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Probably just a case of stuck at home/work/covid itis.

Still going to do our trip, but sans sailboat. Don't want to risk trailering without lights.

Going to do our trip, but with canoe.

Going to be a cool trip. Checking out "Lake St Lawrence". Was flooded during construction of St Lawrence seaway. Never really checked it out, but seems cool.

Going to do an island base camp and do day trips to check out uninhabited islands, flooded villages and canals.

Plan is to anchor boat and snorkel the flooded ruins. Then return to base camp each evening.

Canoe does have a simple sail rig, so sailing will happen. Quality of sailing may not be as good but the adventure and first nights away from home, in nature will be nice.

Going to investigate possible slips in the area for the sailboat for 2021. Only 55 minutes from home.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Auto parts stores carry inexpensive portable magnetic trailer light kits
Plug in and stick on


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I’m selling hippocampus and going to the dark side. My joy in sailing has been international cruising. I actually have the most joy when alone on deck out of helicopter range day or night. I greatly enjoy being off the grid doing the daily chores of living on a boat. Coastal has little or no interest. Day sailing even less. I enjoyed ocean races but hated buoy races where people just get excited and nasty with each other. At this point we’ve seen pretty much all of the windwards and leewards. Been through the “good” spots several times. In order to have my wife happy we need to see new places and do new things. She’s more important than a boat. She wants to do the great loop. She wants more time with family. Keeping a boat up to speed for passage making, liveaboard and total independent living in foreign places where you have no network nor idea where to get things is an order of magnitude more difficult and expensive than any other form of sailing. You can liveaboard and cruise doing the same circuit of islands with ease but experientially it ends up no different than staying home. So at this point wife and I feel we’re in a rut. Friends think we’re nuts. They look at what we’ve been doing and say “what a dream life“. I’m forever thankful I’ve been able to live like this for 7 years but it’s time to change paradigm. If the boat doesn’t sell for what I want it’s not a biggie. This is still great fun. Don’t feel a strong pressure to change. Do feel a new challenge would be nice.
so she’s up for sale. Next one will be a Norhavn, Katy Krogan, Diesel Duck, Willard or one off LRC in Al or steel.
so friends say I won’t be happy. They say I enjoy learning new stuff and have this background of sailing knowledge and won’t be happy not using it. I think it’s mostly boat stuff. Other than the technical stuff of sailing most of the skill set is applicable to any vessel. And there’s a huge amount I don’t know about cruising under power.
tomorrow the seven seas ship comes from St. Lucia to Newport. We relaunch at 7:30am. My baby is back. I already have people in line looking to buy her. Have a whole lot of work to do to clean off the salt of transport and recommission the systems. Will cruise for awhile until she leaves me. Then move on to something new.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

You would very likely enjoy the great loop. There is so much to see and do. Every night, something new.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

outbound said:


> I'm selling hippocampus and going to the dark side.


Doc.....Say it isn't so! I am heartbroken. You've been on of my heros that I hoped to be like when I grew up.

I sorta get it (definitely get that your wife is more important than sailing or any particular boat) but still can't believe it.

Please do both of us a favor and at least carry a sailing dinghy on the new boat.

Of course I wish you all the best on your new course.

Jeff


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Been looking at carbon whitehalls to put next to the rib. Advantage of power is you can carry several small boats and crane them down with ease. They make center board Whitehalls you can row or sail or even put a low HP engine on the back. Currently have a Little River one that takes leeboards and is a sliding seat rowboat. She’s 14’ and works best with only one aboard. She takes awhile to transfer from one function to another. They do make a bigger one and there are other manufacturers. Other thought is to get a BCC or Rustler 36’. Leave that at the house for summer sailing. Using the powerboat for cruising. Lots of options. But need to go stepwise. Sell Hippocampus. Get a strong stabilized power boat. Then deal with the accoutrements.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Wow, kinda shocked OB. But I get it. If it's no longer _fun_, and by that I mean fulfilling to everyone involved, then it's time to move on. I think it's OK to change. What we've done till today does not have to be what we will do tomorrow. That's a rut, no matter how interesting it looks from the outside . It takes courage to recognize when it is time to move on. So good on you.

Hope the sale goes well, and you're able to move on to the next exciting phase. But I certainly hope this doesn't mean your end here. Don't take "sail" too literally. Boating is boating. Whether it's wind by cloth, or by Perkins, it doesn't much matter. It's the lifestyle that we're mostly here to discuss. So please don't leave. Just expect a little ribbing now and then about succumbing to the dark side 🛥.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

outbound said:


> I'm selling hippocampus and going to the dark side. My joy in sailing has been international cruising. I actually have the most joy when alone on deck out of helicopter range day or night. I greatly enjoy being off the grid doing the daily chores of living on a boat. Coastal has little or no interest. Day sailing even less. I enjoyed ocean races but hated buoy races where people just get excited and nasty with each other. At this point we've seen pretty much all of the windwards and leewards. Been through the "good" spots several times. In order to have my wife happy we need to see new places and do new things. She's more important than a boat. She wants to do the great loop. She wants more time with family. Keeping a boat up to speed for passage making, liveaboard and total independent living in foreign places where you have no network nor idea where to get things is an order of magnitude more difficult and expensive than any other form of sailing. You can liveaboard and cruise doing the same circuit of islands with ease but experientially it ends up no different than staying home. So at this point wife and I feel we're in a rut. Friends think we're nuts. They look at what we've been doing and say "what a dream life". I'm forever thankful I've been able to live like this for 7 years but it's time to change paradigm. If the boat doesn't sell for what I want it's not a biggie. This is still great fun. Don't feel a strong pressure to change. Do feel a new challenge would be nice.
> so she's up for sale. Next one will be a Norhavn, Katy Krogan, Diesel Duck, Willard or one off LRC in Al or steel.
> so friends say I won't be happy. They say I enjoy learning new stuff and have this background of sailing knowledge and won't be happy not using it. I think it's mostly boat stuff. Other than the technical stuff of sailing most of the skill set is applicable to any vessel. And there's a huge amount I don't know about cruising under power.
> tomorrow the seven seas ship comes from St. Lucia to Newport. We relaunch at 7:30am. My baby is back. I already have people in line looking to buy her. Have a whole lot of work to do to clean off the salt of transport and recommission the systems. Will cruise for awhile until she leaves me. Then move on to something new.


Good for you. Sailing changes with experience and you have had quite a bit. There is more than one way to meet your plans and dreams. For years I had plans to take my boat south for the winter and out to Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas. The years went by and the plans faded but, not the desire. So a few years ago I chartered a Catamaran out of Key West and was able to scratch that itch. Long passages on my boat no longer entice me and watching the occasional You Tube sailing couple videos of the logistic difficulties of getting parts and provisioning in "paradise" has convinced me that my gal was right in demanding doing crewed charters at the best time of year in various places around the world as the way to go. At least when there is no pandemic.  Even now I still am able to enjoy my own boat for most of the year even if those cruising plans of my youth have faded. The important thing is to have no regrets.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

OB demonstrates in his post it's not JUST the boat but what thrills him about sailing it. I completely agree with the racing... and yes local cruising to the same place again and again is not so compelling. Day sailing makes little sense unless it's the only option to getting out into nature. If you don't have a weekend home to go to... boat works. If you do... boat looses its pull

I will likely put Shiva up for sail next year... too many things to deal with this year. Maybe next year we hit our fav spots for the last time. It's a hard decision but it's one informed by reason.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

SanderO said:


> If you don't have a weekend home to go to... boat works. If you do... boat looses its pull


You just described our situation. We kept our boat on Barnegat Bay for 12 years. It was our "shore house" and we'd day sail with the occasional overnight. Sailing to Tahiti was never our dream.

But life gets in the way. The last three years that we lived in Jersey were taken up with getting our condo and our house ready for sale and then my wife getting sick. I still got to the boat but not often and moving the boat to Florida was just too expensive.

We got to Florida with the idea that we were building a new home on a lot we own and would buy a boat here when that was done. Hurricane Irma, a shortage of builders after the storm, shifting building codes, shifting banking requirements and now covid have conspired to sink that plan. We're not building, we listed our condo in the Keys at a fire-sale price and are going to buy a house on the water and see where things are in a year or two.

Since we'll already have the house on the water I've been thinking about picking up a cheap daysailer, but honestly after three years living here and almost six since I sailed regularly I find myself leaning more towards a small fishing boat. My wife who always loved sailing is talking about the convenience of just being able to get in a powerboat and run to the sandbar or to a restaurant.

Frankly I have one foot out the door and I'm not sure I'll own another sailboat...


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JimMcGee said:


> You just described our situation. We kept our boat on Barnegat Bay for 12 years. It was our "shore house" and we'd day sail with the occasional overnight. Sailing to Tahiti was never our dream.
> 
> But life gets in the way. The last three years that we lived in Jersey were taken up with getting our condo and our house ready for sale and then my wife getting sick. I still got to the boat but not often and moving the boat to Florida was just too expensive.
> 
> ...





JimMcGee said:


> You just described our situation. We kept our boat on Barnegat Bay for 12 years. It was our "shore house" and we'd day sail with the occasional overnight. Sailing to Tahiti was never our dream.
> 
> But life gets in the way. The last three years that we lived in Jersey were taken up with getting our condo and our house ready for sale and then my wife getting sick. I still got to the boat but not often and moving the boat to Florida was just too expensive.
> 
> ...


We are in a similar situation. Florida has never been a choice of ours due to we like the seasonal change
We also are seriously looking at 25-28 foot RV trailors. We want to travel, but not get tied down. We want to maintain a permanent residence with medical care and our doctors being the same all the time. We didn't want to give up friends or cultural activities. We both volunteer and give back to our community, and there would not be that opportunity as cruising is pretty much self centered. We enjoy ( not now of course) jumping on a plane and going to Chicago, Bar Harbor for a weekend on the spur of a moment. That will increase as we enjoy more time off without work constraints.

we once seriously thought about cruising, but medical care was one of the consequences which turned us away, plus it would limit our traveling once retired pretty much to the water. We are not one dimensional in our love of the outdoors and love both water and other scenery. RV are very similar to the size boat we have at 35 ft with ample room for living in.

so we see ourselves eventually sharing our fanatical sailing life with a more balanced life. Haleakula is been paid off 20 years ago. She will require maintainence, but her main fees will/ are slip and haul issues. We are looking seriously in moving either to the New Bern area of North Carolina, or the Northern Nech of Virginia bounded by the York an Potomac rivers west to with in 30 miles of East side of I-95.

with our retire the coming February 1, we are getting plans moving in that direction. We are not ready to give up Haleakula and sailing. We just want to add to it.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound said:


> I'm selling hippocampus and going to the dark side. My joy in sailing has been international cruising. I actually have the most joy when alone on deck out of helicopter range day or night. I greatly enjoy being off the grid doing the daily chores of living on a boat. Coastal has little or no interest. Day sailing even less. I enjoyed ocean races but hated buoy races where people just get excited and nasty with each other. At this point we've seen pretty much all of the windwards and leewards. Been through the "good" spots several times. In order to have my wife happy we need to see new places and do new things. She's more important than a boat. She wants to do the great loop. She wants more time with family. Keeping a boat up to speed for passage making, liveaboard and total independent living in foreign places where you have no network nor idea where to get things is an order of magnitude more difficult and expensive than any other form of sailing. You can liveaboard and cruise doing the same circuit of islands with ease but experientially it ends up no different than staying home. So at this point wife and I feel we're in a rut. Friends think we're nuts. They look at what we've been doing and say "what a dream life". I'm forever thankful I've been able to live like this for 7 years but it's time to change paradigm. If the boat doesn't sell for what I want it's not a biggie. This is still great fun. Don't feel a strong pressure to change. Do feel a new challenge would be nice.
> so she's up for sale. Next one will be a Norhavn, Katy Krogan, Diesel Duck, Willard or one off LRC in Al or steel.
> so friends say I won't be happy. They say I enjoy learning new stuff and have this background of sailing knowledge and won't be happy not using it. I think it's mostly boat stuff. Other than the technical stuff of sailing most of the skill set is applicable to any vessel. And there's a huge amount I don't know about cruising under power.
> tomorrow the seven seas ship comes from St. Lucia to Newport. We relaunch at 7:30am. My baby is back. I already have people in line looking to buy her. Have a whole lot of work to do to clean off the salt of transport and recommission the systems. Will cruise for awhile until she leaves me. Then move on to something new.


Should we go to a motor boat, one of my bucket list places is Hudson Bay, now that the ice has gone. I'm not one for open cockpits and cold places, so a nice pilot house with stabilizers, '60s rock on the stereo and my coffee on the dash sounds about right for those sorts of places. You'll enjoy your power boat just as much as your sail boat, just in different ways. Imagine a real recliner in your salon. Have fun.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

capta said:


> You'll enjoy your power boat just as much as your sail boat, just in different ways. Imagine a real recliner in your salon. Have fun.


You might be closer to the truth than you realize. We've never been in the "hate power boats" camp. We just love being on the water.

We've been kicking around the idea of something in the "picnic boat" genre. Hinckley's are a bit pricey for my taste but there are tons of similar boats on the used market.

Maybe not a recliner in the salon but comfortable for cruising and more practical for us than the center consoles that are ubiquitous down here.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

capta said:


> Should we go to a motor boat, one of my bucket list places is Hudson Bay, now that the ice has gone. I'm not one for open cockpits and cold places, so a nice pilot house with stabilizers, '60s rock on the stereo and my coffee on the dash sounds about right for those sorts of places. You'll enjoy your power boat just as much as your sail boat, just in different ways. Imagine a real recliner in your salon. Have fun.





outbound said:


> I'm selling hippocampus and going to the dark side. My joy in sailing has been international cruising. I actually have the most joy when alone on deck out of helicopter range day or night. I greatly enjoy being off the grid doing the daily chores of living on a boat. Coastal has little or no interest. Day sailing even less. I enjoyed ocean races but hated buoy races where people just get excited and nasty with each other. At this point we've seen pretty much all of the windwards and leewards. Been through the "good" spots several times. In order to have my wife happy we need to see new places and do new things. She's more important than a boat. She wants to do the great loop. She wants more time with family. Keeping a boat up to speed for passage making, liveaboard and total independent living in foreign places where you have no network nor idea where to get things is an order of magnitude more difficult and expensive than any other form of sailing. You can liveaboard and cruise doing the same circuit of islands with ease but experientially it ends up no different than staying home. So at this point wife and I feel we're in a rut. Friends think we're nuts. They look at what we've been doing and say "what a dream life". I'm forever thankful I've been able to live like this for 7 years but it's time to change paradigm. If the boat doesn't sell for what I want it's not a biggie. This is still great fun. Don't feel a strong pressure to change. Do feel a new challenge would be nice.
> so she's up for sale. Next one will be a Norhavn, Katy Krogan, Diesel Duck, Willard or one off LRC in Al or steel.
> so friends say I won't be happy. They say I enjoy learning new stuff and have this background of sailing knowledge and won't be happy not using it. I think it's mostly boat stuff. Other than the technical stuff of sailing most of the skill set is applicable to any vessel. And there's a huge amount I don't know about cruising under power.
> tomorrow the seven seas ship comes from St. Lucia to Newport. We relaunch at 7:30am. My baby is back. I already have people in line looking to buy her. Have a whole lot of work to do to clean off the salt of transport and recommission the systems. Will cruise for awhile until she leaves me. Then move on to something new.


Good for you.

I know you taken great thought and discussion with your wife to come to this decision.

sounds like the paradigm shift we are going through except we will go the RV route instead. I wouldn't be happy on a trawler. Most of the houses we are looking at have docks on smaller shallow creeks. After Haleakula goes in a few years 7 I can see getting a picnic cruiser or something like that that can go up on a lift at my house.

pour boat primarily in the last 15 years has been the bonding place and refuge place we have used to get away from intense jobs. We have made so many memories on Haleakula. It has kept us close and engaged with each other while jobs tugged at us and our energy..

we relish this time coming up without those demands. It allows us to expand our schedule and vistas. I once thought it was a long cruising lifestyle, but I've changed.

Good luck in your searches.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Out, sounds like the burden has begun to exceed the joy. I hope you find the right balance in a trawler. Many retired sailors have gone that route. Be sure to examine your burdens carefully. Always best to run toward something, not away.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

The decision to get out of your boat is informed by many factors. One of them is a need to be doing something in nature... and sailing certainly meets that criteria. So does camping and hiking and mountain climbing and I suppose biking - motor and pedal...or "RVing", fishing etc. A boat is usually a home like a tent, a cottage or an RV. But the more elaborate (large) the more the expense and the time needed to maintain the "asset". For many caring for is not a burden but a pleasure of sorts. For sure maintenance keeps your mind and body occupied / active. And that is a good thing, especially as one gets on in years. But "work" of any kind also become more taxing... and older boats need more of it to boot.

I think "boredom" in "retirement" is a problem. One no longer has a job to fill a good portion of your working hours.You likely have enough financial resources to do "something" with your time. But what? Hobbies come to mind... golfing or fishing or boating... travel/tourism, maybe attending "performances" or even study or learning to play an instrument or how to dance.

So for sure owning a boat is "therapeutic" for older people.... it should keep them physically and an mentally active. You can't care for and sail a boat without thinking and being physically engaged and skilled. It may not be as :"thrilling" as it was when the experience was "new"... but most things aren't. Thrilling morphs into familiarity and confidence.. maybe comfort.

I suspect "replacing" what one's sailboat provides mentally and physically (therapeutically) is not easy. Can moving to a motor boat or an RV or learning piano fill all the critical functions that boat ownership does? Hard to say,,, but I think not, I suspect giving up boating is more about lack of money and lack of energy, stamina, strength, dexterity, and capabilities. It simply "demands" more than you have...because age will be taking all these away from you. When is the right moment to step away? And can "it" be replaced?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

All stinkpot jokes aside, I have family with powerboats. It’s nice to be out on the water, if that’s the purpose, but it rarely is for them. They use them to get to a destination. Once there, they can be more comfortable than a sailboat. Those that had smaller boats to go swimming with the family or fishing with friends, in my observation have been the mostly likely to move on. Just had a brother-in-law sell his 28 ft PB that he kept on a lake in CT. No where to go really, just motor around and hope his kids came to swim or fish. They rarely did.

The act of getting there, on a powerboat, I find excruciating. You just drone along mindlessly. You might be in a comfortable captains chair in air conditioning, but it’s like sitting in a comfortable conference room chair all day. It gets seriously old to me.

Sailing, rather than motoring, the boat is a sport, an activity. One that occupies my time both physically and mentally. We were just out for the better part of three weeks, with no plan or destination. We sailed, when there was wind, and stayed put, when there wasn’t. Zero goals, other than that. It kept us engaged and we sailed more than we ever have on a cruise before. Until the final 1.5 hr leg home, we sailed every single leg of the trip. Perhaps the day will come that I retire to a trawler or other pb, but frankly, if it’s only about getting to see the destinations, I think there are so many ways that are more fun and efficient. Personally, I’d sooner choose to see destinations in the US on a BMW K1600 or a 2020 mid-engine Corvette. They’d keep my attention and would leave substantially more time to actually see the destinations.

Who knows, maybe the day will come that I don’t have the physical capacity for any of this and just want to be around the boating community, living on my comfortable dock queen. 

No right or wrong.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> All stinkpot jokes aside, I have family with powerboats. It's nice to be out on the water, if that's the purpose, but it rarely is for them. They use them to get to a destination. Once there, they can be more comfortable than a sailboat. Those that had smaller boats to go swimming with the family or fishing with friends, in my observation have been the mostly likely to move on. Just had a brother-in-law sell his 28 ft PB that he kept on a lake in CT. No where to go really, just motor around and hope his kids came to swim or fish. They rarely did.
> 
> The act of getting there, on a powerboat, I find excruciating. You just drone along mindlessly. You might be in a comfortable captains chair in air conditioning, but it's like sitting in a comfortable conference room chair all day. It gets seriously old to me.
> 
> ...


The destination thing loses its currency when you visit the destination multiple times... then it becomes the experience of getting there... then that gets a bit old unless the conditions are really exceptional...

I suspect the boat ownership thing has several facets... and destination becomes less important unless one is out on a horizon seeking journey.

I saw some vid by Sailing Uma which was interesting. These kids ripped that boat apart and created an interesting interior with some excellent "new solutions".... and then, I suppose they went after horizons. It was a lifestyle for them. When your boat IS your home... the calculus is quite different I suppose.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Canoe does have a simple sail rig, so sailing will happen. Quality of sailing may not be as good but the adventure and first nights away from home, in nature will be nice.


I don't think you are anywhere close to getting out of sailing. You just chose to take on another sailboat project this year to add to your quiver. Enjoy your canoe sailing. I spend way more time in my inflatable kayak than anything else as it is the easiest thing to do.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

jephotog said:


> I don't think you are anywhere close to getting out of sailing. You just chose to take on another sailboat project this year to add to your quiver. Enjoy your canoe sailing. I spend way more time in my inflatable kayak than anything else as it is the easiest thing to do.


Had some really good canoe sailing this morning actually. Light wind, but the boat doesn't need much. Sailed about 6 miles down to a flooded village with wife and kids and checked out some submerged buildings. Boat sailed great on a reach.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Outrigger and rig looks great. I am gearing up my Potter 14 to start camping out of. Now I just need to get an elusive backcountry permit.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> The destination thing loses its currency when you visit the destination multiple times... then it becomes the experience of getting there... then that gets a bit old unless the conditions are really exceptional...


I'm not so sure that's true for the powerboaters I know. It's usually a trip to the next party spot. In the northeast, there is an ample supply to rotate between.


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## mickeyrouse (Oct 10, 2000)

The companion question is “Why did you get into sailing in the first place?” After 45 years, there’s only one thing that will get me out of sailing.


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## Compacjack (Aug 14, 2020)

I sold my Formosa 41 Seawolf ketch in 2002 after owning a progression of sailboats beginning with a Beetle Bros Cat boat. I bought a Com Pac 16 at the end of last year. I refitted the boat and she sits on her trailer in fine shape. I do find the simplicity of a smaller boat and the flexibility of a trailer sailer are a great combination as I get older.

I had AirBnB reservations this summer on the Chesapeake but the pandemic changed all that. I just have to tough out the restrictions in my home waters of Florida.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mickeyrouse said:


> The companion question is "Why did you get into sailing in the first place?" After 45 years, there's only one thing that will get me out of sailing.


Not necessarily relevant to why you want/need to get out...

I wanted to do something new... seemed challenging and more interesting that renting a summer cottage... I liked the idea that with the right boat and skills I could could wherever I wanted. I did. I scratched that itch. I continue to learn because sailing is vast and touches so many other things. It really is like a whole new universe. And it can be fun as well. Who doesn't like "fun".

I suspect "seniors" get out of things because of physical demands and their limitations...You don't see many seniors playing tennis or soccer. Sailing is not aerobic but it does require good physical strength and "energy"... as well as vision, hearing and balance. I think these are drivers for people who consider leaving sailing and boat ownership. Younger people would have a different set of things driving their decision matrix for exiting.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I will say that once some has sailing in their blood they will always yearn for those perfect conditions when the boat is in the groove making hull speed under a beautiful sky over a blue sea.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> I will say that once some has sailing in their blood they will always yearn for those perfect conditions when the boat is in the groove making hull speed under a beautiful sky over a blue sea.


I agree but I must admit I also yearn to travel and see nature by land.

We have been primarily using our spare time while we've been working on Haleakula. That's the last 17 years. I also sailed extensively since I was 6. Been across the Atlantic twice, raced for years in a very competitive situation, was in the Carribran 1500 once, chartered in many areas ( Caribbean, Southern California, San Juan's , Newport . I've also helped deliver as crew over 10 boats to Florida or the Caribbean. I'm not tired of it just want a more well rounded approach to our lives. Luckily my wife has been a partner and embraced it as much as me. If she hadn't I'm not sure I would feel comfortable leaving her home as a "sailing widow". The expenditure , though I had the boat before we married , was from our joint monies. Not only did she love sailing, she embraced it, made our boat more comfortable and as you know made all our canvas.

so I'm not getting out completely, just going in another direction. We are officially retired as of February1. Soon after we are moving to a much less densely populated area in the northern Neck of Virginia bordering the Chesapeake. Somewhere between the York River and the Potomac River. Weare also in the process of purchasing a 28-32 ft travel trailer, and trading my Highlander in for a truck or large SUV which can pull it. Though I've been in all 50 states and all Canadian providences she hasn't.

we will continue to sail, but much less. The trailer can be a stand alone self contained like our boat allowing us to go anywhere. off the grid ( boondocking) No need to travel abroad ( they don't want Americans now anyway), we can see beauty and nature here and in Canada. The main thing again is we are doing it together. The boat has strengthened the bond my wife and I have and we expect that RVing can do the same. It's something we can share well into our twilight years.

I understand that sailing is in my blood like many others. I don't want to ignore that my and her interests are multifaceted. What prevented us before was our jobs. We could sail most weekends we were off. Take our "second house" with us. Traveling requires more time. But now we will be retired so we have u limited time.

we also want to stY connected to our community and give back in terms of volunteerism. Like Take5 I was a school board member and president for 8 years. Participate and serve on three non profits, work actively in the political pRty I believe in. I'd like to be a docent at one of the Smithsonian's three days a week. From where we are moving to that will be possible. I've been an active member and donor of them for 20 years, plus a few of my food service Cafes were in them. I have made the contacts. The lecture series that members can go to is immense. To name a few I have met and heard in small settings from Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Jane Goodall, Colin Powel, Jacques Couesteu, Walter Cronkite, Hyman Rickover, Jimmy Carter, Mark Hall and so many others. It satisfies my intellectual curiosity,

So my matrix for getting out is now. I will cut down drastically. No more 2500 nm seasons on Haleakula. I look forward to expanding our exploring ability.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

No plan...


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I have been retired 14 years. I've been sailing almost 50 years and still enjoy just spending a few hours out on the water with the boat heeled and the wheel in my hand. Did that today. But sailing is only part of my outdoor life. My other love is the mountains and skiing. Have owned a condo in Vermont for 20+ years and spend lots of time there from November through April as well as 3+ weeks in Colorado. This ying and yang of sailing and skiing has been a big part of never being a bored retiree. I'm sure physical issues will impact the sking at some point in the not too distant future, but I feel lucky to be able to continue to ski at a pretty high level.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

So, I tapped on an interesting door a couple of days ago. Maybe it would be considered more a test of whether exiting is close or not. Jeanneau sent around a short video of a couple who completed the World ARC. I sent it to her and asked what she thought. She said she’s very interested! Honestly, I was a bit surprised and it may be a bit unrealistic. Nevertheless, I mentioned it to a buddy and he said his wife would divorce him, if he simply brought it up. 

Looks like I’m at least in the game for the foreseeable future! May start a thread on the World ARC itself.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

The bell tolled today for us.

Today we took the next step in our lives as we plan for the February retirement. Having Haleakula in drydock having a rebuilt engine in her gave us time to map out our future and eventual endgame. We've been spending time researching on where to move to and opening up the possibility of " land cruising" . Today we took a big step in ordering our new land yacht. 34 ft. The RV business is one which has gone gang busters in the Covid pandemic and people have gone strongly in that direction. There is virtually zero inventory and the factories have doubled up production to keep up.

we wanted some thing to be able to be easily towed . We wanted comfort, we intend on taking month to 2 months trips at a time. It will be set up similarly to our boat with much more room. It will have solar panels as well as 3 firefly AGM to power her when camping off the grid. We are buying a Honda 3000 to be able to run the air conditioning should we need it and we aren't in a site with electric. It is a four season RV with R40 insulation in the roof and R30 under the floor protecting the tanks. 60 gallon water, 40 gallon Black water, 110 gallon grey water. Queen bed, 2 recliners, and a dining table with 4 chairs. We are adding the fireflies, inverter and solar to boost up the 12 volt as we don't envision using the generator unless we have to. Two 20lb propane tanks fuel the refrigerator ( electric and propane) , 6 gallon instant hot water, and oven / three burner stove. The Honda 3000 can be run as propane or gas.
Tons of storage . Total cost $41,000. Such a deal compared to boats. ( but you still need a tow vehicle. ) we didn't want a motor home as our detached truck gives us more flexibility. We are really excited. Now we have to purchase a good 1/2 ton V8 truck which we don't mind doing long drives. ( have any recommendations?) it's should be ready by next March. I hate giving up my Highlander for a truck as my principal vehicle, but I won't be driving it to work as I'm not working? Donna has a new Murano.









Imagine 2670MK


UVW: 6845 lbs. | HITCH WEIGHT: 690 lbs. | GVWR: 8495 lbs.




www.granddesignrv.com





As those who have retired know that once I start getting Social Security you have to start reducing your 401 savings each year which was tax deferred. So we are forced to take over $60,000 out by the feds anyway . That plus social security for both of us is comfortable.

We have also decided that we want to live in the northern neck of Virginia bordered by the Potomac on the norther side and the York River on the southern side. Houses are very reasonable, we can buy for less than our current house which we will put on the market in March. 1 hour to Richmond or Solomon's, or Williamsburg so it's rural but not in the boonies. There is even a Wegmans 35 minutes away? Looking for a 3 bedroom 2 bath 1/2-1 acre house with little maintainence.

We are not giving up sailing at all but moving our operation to the southern Chesapeake. As long as we can physically we will continue with Haleakula. Slip fees are half what they are here unless we find a house on a creek where we can easily keep her. We do see however using the RV a lot. July and August will find us in Maine and hopefully eventually eastern Canada. Winter we will travel either south or west to Arizona. Northern Neck of Virginia gives us the best of both worlds. It easy to sail up to our current stomping grounds . It's mostly out of the hurricane target and flood zone. 2 hours to the Blue Ridge Mountains for camping. Great access to health care.

Our heads are spinning as after making the life altering retirement decision we started putting into play our plans after,
We are very excited to be retiring and starting this new adventure. Those who have done this or are planning can relate. Those who are a long way away from retirement may find this amusing or boring. To think of doing other than just sail more 10 years ago, I wouldn't think of. I had entertained long ranged cruising dream and a different boat briefly. But we changed priorities. The pandemic was the final straw with distancing ( living in a non busy area) and lack of travel internationally.

we hope to enjoy many more years on Haleakula. We will now have a second ( or third ) home to move as a chess piece and explore the country and enjoy each other. Did I mention we are VERY excited.

I wanted to post this to the many friends I've made on here. We will always be friends.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just received a offer on Hippocampus this morning. She was seen once (Yesterday) and have one nearly reasonable offer. Now pondering what to do. Emotionally its so hard to move on as sailing has been a part of me for decades and international cruising for the last 7 years. Upside is I’m getting a lot of hugs from the bride. 
Wife and I have looked at the smaller Airstreams but she hasn’t had much International travel outside the boat. She wants to see Europe and Asia. Hard to do with a RV. Believe eventually covid will become a moldering endemic allowing some form of travel to re-emerge. So the plan is a small trawler. Do the great loop until flights become safe. Then trawler in warm weather and explore the world in one shoulder season and winter. I like New England autumns. So probably travel winter/spring, boat summer/fall. 
looking at N 40, N46, N47, KK48, Willard 40.as next boat. All are capable of a New England -Windwards seasonal commute if we decide to return to that lifestyle.
wife keeps telling me I should rejoice in what we’ve been able to do and not be downhearted. She’s right, of course, but it’s still so hard.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Be cognizant of dimensions on the trawlers. I am not sure something like a KK48 would even fit through all the canals on the loop. Here on the Rideau you are looking at max draft 60 inches, one inch more and you're on concrete. Maximum bridge clearance; 22 feet.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

An interesting discussion about getting out. 

IMHO different points in your life drive different boating habits. For us, we started small, got bigger a couple of times, now smaller. More day sailing now, less interest in cruising. Maybe it's just me, but a combination of creature comforts and things that I own that don't own me, have greater appeal as I age. By things that own me, I mean stuff that requires lots of maintenance that translates to down time to fix with either my labor or finding someone who's competent to do it, which is not always easy.

On power alternatives, we also run a small down east. I've fallen in love with these boats. You can run them slow and fuel efficient, but you can also get someplace fast when you want to. They have keels. They are relative efficient with a single diesel even at speed. Coastal cruising in the high teens is eye opening. I am still a little surprised how far I get in a day. The real ones (built as workboats but outfitted for cruising) are built to go out in less than perfect weather for lobstering or commercial fishing. Although our small down east is mostly for fishing now, we may contemplate a bigger one in the future, perhaps combined with an even a smaller sailboat. 

We all change as we age. Nothing is constant. I appreciate the honesty about these changes expressed by some long term posters here. 

Embrace the change.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

chef2sail said:


> The bell tolled today for us.
> 
> we hope to enjoy many more years on Haleakula. We will now have a second ( or third ) home to move as a chess piece and explore the country and enjoy each other. Did I mention we are VERY excited.


Congratulations on the next step,

As someone who has spent the last 3 years camping and traveling by truck, here is some advice.

Towing a trailer makes traveling difficult, you need to plan ahead. Trying to drive through a busy town and negotiate a stop for groceries takes planning. At least out west, you need to plan ahead and ensure a space for you is available.

Consider a built in generator over a Honda 3000. Push button starting from inside the trailer, no storage issues.

Consider a 3/4 ton truck or 1500 eco diesel. Dodge Ford and maybe Chevy makes a 1500 with a smaller Euro diesel that gets 30+ mpg while not towing but can tow 10,000 lbs.

There are tons of seasonal volunteer opportunities for trailer based retirees that come with a free campsite. Campground host and National Park volunteer.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The N40 has a draft of 62”. air draft varies widely depending on if fitted with fish and flybridge but generally under 22’. 
Have done the AICW multiple times and even did Norfolk to Oriental in the Outbound with a draft of 6’6”.
Mississippi, Ohio and the other big rivers are no problem. Many canals are out but can do Great Lakes and St.Lawrence. 
want a sea boat. Much prefer long coastal hops to the ditch which I hate. Choices are surprisingly limited as fast trawlers have taken over the market. Need to do more research but suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Arcb.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

It interesting to read what some members are planning to do post sailing. RV has no appeal to me... owning a trailer and a truck is yet another ball and chain. If we were to tour the States... I would rather do it in a comfy small car and stay in hotels, motels, B&Bs and AirB&B and friends etc. No camping in tents. We're not in physical condition to climb mountains or hike long trails... No way RV. But if that works for others... go for it. I remember Scott Sullivan tried something like that and had a helluva time parking it overnight because most places and parking lots don't allow them.

I imagine I would continue to like a sail on a beautiful afternoon.... but I feel the cruising itch has been pretty well scratched. As much as I enjoy messing about on boats... That itch too has been scratched and I wouldn't miss replacing an impeller if I never did it again. Sailing for me has evolved as circumstances in my live evolved. Offshore passages and cruising the islands make less sense now. I would like to sell Shiva to a local user and be invited to sail on the boat occasionally... maybe.

We like Europe and there is so much to see and do there... and we never even did Asia. So shortish "old style" trips is what we would probably do when it's feasible, Wifey is very much involved with her grand kids and I don't see her moving far from them either.

For me it's kinda been there done that.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Not sure what Scott did, but there are plenty of places where you can stop besides RV parks.
There are no B&B in the plains of Ontario, the beaches in Nova Scotia, the wilds of Wyoming, Death Valley, etc. 

Much of our sailing experience happens off grid where we anchor and is not accessible, there are no B&B nearby. To us “seeing America” does come from just passing it behind a window in a car, but having a chance to stop and smell the roses. I think I could appreciate waking up near the Grand Tetons or some little fishing village in Maine on a crisp October AM with a cup of Kona and no one else in sight with my partner who I love. Being in an RV gives us that plus we have our home with us, just like the sailboat does. We can always take an airplane to a city , stay in a B$B or hotel. This lets us do it with no schedule in mind with no real restriction. If we want to stay an extra 3 days we can.

the RV detaches easily. The truck then is what you take around and go shopping with, tour with, etc. For the price of one night in a B&B you can stay 1 week in a campground which has water, swear, and electric hookups.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the recommendations on trucks, I am looking at the diesel vs the V8. I like diesel. The issue is those which develope enough horsepower are crammed with turbos etc. the V8 are pretty simple. Any reason you suggest the 3/4 ton over the 1/2 ton except the weight. The RV we are looking at are under 7000 lbs. 

Dodge has great deals and across the board has good hp. Ford is the most popular and has the best track record.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I would avoid any boat that prevented you from using the her in the heritage canals. Many loopers spend their entire summers in the heritage canals.

Length and beam are not serious concerns. I regularly see 60 footers and catamarans, but draft and air draft could be. The St Lawrence Seaway and Welland canal are no fun in a pleasure craft. Ships have priority, locks are huge, often pleasure craft will be mixed in with 300 foot ships, MARSEC requires locks be fenced off, so you aren't likely going for a walk. You are jockeying with 700+ ft ships in the commercial canals, sometimes closer than most feel comfortable with.

I don't know trawlers well enough to recomend a model, but some of those big sea going trawlers are likely to be too deep, although many models should be within the limits.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I've been spending some time on board contemplating this topic since it came up. While my wanderlust to cruise has faded. Then the COVID restrictions have made sailing to nearby Ports of Call less desirable. The final straw was a severely damaged sail thanks to the Tropical Storm. I've decided this late in the season to not attempt to remove it and get the sail repaired. I'll give my business to a sail loft over the winter instead. So unless I get the notion to motor my boat will be on the mooring for the rest of the season. 

Yet, I have come to embrace these limitations. My boat still represents freedom despite not changing locations this season. I enjoy the freedom of not having to wear a mask. The ability to jump in the water for a swim especially since the land based Health Club has been closed for months. Jumping over the side is indeed liberating and refreshing. When I'm on board things seem as normal as they always were. It's only when I go back to land that am I reminded how things have changed. Like the need to wear a mask to enter a store. So any thought of giving up the boat has been banished unless a major physical limitation prevents me from boarding it. I don't need to set sail off into the sunset to enjoy what it represents. The boat for me still represents a freedom that makes one feel truly alive and just being on board keeps reminding me of that.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm on the same page as you SanderO... RV'ing of any kind (RV or Trailer) has zero appeal to us. It has some similarities to boating but very little similarities to sailing in my opinion. The culture of RV/Camper folk is really not my scene either...

When I cannot sail comfortably anymore I'll have a place on a mountain lake far from humans. More than likely an off grid cabin west/near of the Rockies; Colorado (my birth state), Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, California, Oregon, Montana.

BTW... I love my 2019 F150 Lariat 3.0 Diesel 4x4... Best vehicle I have ever owned.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't know "off the beaten track"... where you can go to by RV but where there are no accommodations for tourists in "driving range". I had kind of assumed that any place of tourist interest would have lodging within a few hours drive. I never looked into this.... but I do know that there's little untouched wilderness left.

I am not sure I understand the distinction you are making about making a cup of coffee in an RV and taking a picnic lunch in Mazda.... You can't teleport so you need to enjoy getting there... in a MV, boat or RV... even motorcycle. But when you get there.... you do need a place to sleep and so on.... I get the analogy to a sailboat... It's not much appeal to me. Maybe I am a commuter type?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

It's interesting to see how others are approaching this. Our end goal was to live by the water where there is no winter. Now that we're here, we're working on getting out of our condo and into a house, which has it's own challenges with covid.

We like to travel and once I'm retired our first trip will be a slow wander by car up the East Coast staying in B&B's and we'd like to do something similar across Europe. We previously did a lot of travel by motorcycle. These days I want the comfort of a car or SUV.

Boat-wise we're leaning toward a Downeast / Picnic style boat and maybe a small daysailer. We want to play on the water but aren't really looking to do anything longer than maybe a day trip to Key West or Miami which is doable with pretty much any small power boat.

Owning an RV doesn't appeal to us. We get a TON of them here in the Keys and I'm amazed at how many owners gripe about what a pain they are. It seems like half the RV owners I talk to are one step away from selling. What is interesting to me is occasionally renting one to visit some more remote places and national parks. Kind of like chartering a boat to visit remote sailing grounds.

It comes down to figuring out the right balance that works for you. Where I'm lucky is my wife and I always had similar ideas of what we wanted in a boat and are on the same page with our retirement goals.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I like the idea of some sort of RV. I admit my eyes have been wondering over the various camper van and smaller Class C models. Even before the current apocalypse I was thinking a land cruiser would be a good compliment to our current 1/2-year on the boat life. 

I would definitely want one with serious boondocking (equivalent to anchoring out) capabilities though. So this means decent tankage, and the ability to mount enough solar. I have little desire to stay in organized camp grounds, although much like marinas, I'm sure they have their uses.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> I like the idea of some sort of RV. I admit my eyes have been wondering over the various camper van and smaller Class C models. Even before the current apocalypse I was thinking a land cruiser would be a good compliment to our current 1/2-year on the boat life.
> 
> I would definitely want one with serious boondocking (equivalent to anchoring out) capabilities though. So this means decent tankage, and the ability to mount enough solar. I have little desire to stay in organized camp grounds, although much like marinas, I'm sure they have their uses.


Exactly like we feel.

we Have always been multi dimensional in our outside interests. We are keeping our sailboat. And keeping it on the Chesapeake. I understand the pushback on RV. The few times we have rented one, we see the different types of people we see in the sailboat communities. It's great for families and keeping them together in lesisure activities. It's seems to be something a lot of couples do in retirement and after the kids have gone. We didn't see many lone wolfs with them unless they were running from something or just wanted to be loners ( no value judgement) It's a great lifestyle it seems just like sailing is for a couple.

Maybe my view or change is influenced by the fact that my wife and I are a couple and we like doing things together and sharing time together. Any lifestyle takes away from that I can't conceive as she is my best friend too. If I was single I wouldn't have that relationship and therefore not have to consider someone other than myself. I can see why RV for a single person wouldn't work. I consider myself lucky ....not restricted. Many on here I know are similarly in that position with kids grown, happily married, and have loved sailing with their wives/ husbands.

we have friends who are similar. Retired. Both worked for years, have sailboats. They have successfully ADDED an RV to their shared experience. The point I was making about the Kona was similar to our boat, it is beautiful to wake up in a beautiful nature spot and be able to take it in. A campfire at night looking at the stars in Montana seems like something WE would like.

Like Mike, we don't see ourselves as the travelers in KOA or camping grounds more than 15% of the time. I agree it's like going to a marina and we prefer to anchor out. We will make our RV able to go boondocking ( dry camping) and self sufficient with a robust 12 volt system with solar panels. The tankage is large. More than on our current 35 ft sailboat. A B&B is a snap shot of where you are....just like if you went to a Caribbean island and stayed in one, or a hotel/ condo. An RV is like the sailboat ...immersed in the culture and the environment potentially if you allow it. 
pour purpose isn't to just go from one crowded national park to the next. ( though we certainly will stop and see some.) it's like a traveling house. We don't see it as a weekend use thing but using it take long duration trips like 3-6 weeks. It's detachable so we certainlycan go to an area like Bar Harbor find a remote campground for a week and travel the coastal areas eating lobster till we are sick, and even stay in a few B&B . The beauty is we are on no schedule we are retired. And we are together do something we BOTH enjoy together. I've made it clear that Haleakula has contributed to a bonding and a successful marriage because we share opinions and do it together. Our second marriage is 15 years and going strong. We learned from our first marriages. And this works for us and may not work for others. But to be honest , and to a fault I am bluntly that way, I don't care what others think, I beleive in doing what's best for us. Now to find the best way to do that,

as I read Outbounds ( one of the people I respect on here) transition from sailing, I detect his move to a trawler is something his wife finds exciting also. I think that's important to him in sharing his life with her. I probably can't relate as well to someone single, because I'm not. Similarly I don't think the can relate to sharing the decision making with someone else having an opinion. It's not a value judgement so don't go there. We may be in different places coming from a different direction.

BTW I am excited on learning and planning and executing something new intellectually. Sailing did that for me for many years, but that has begun to wane.

we both worked for over 40 years and saved for this. We feel lucky ...and fortunate to have this. The title of the thread was what to do in the matrix when you get out of sailing. we aren't selling out of sailing adding an RV , just like Mike said...adding on. We still are keeping Haleakula, and still keeping her in the area we love to sail, just moving her south.

we will make new acquaintances like us if we choose. And we will maintain our real friends from before retirement. 
my motto...go big or stay home?????


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> Just received a offer on Hippocampus this morning. .....
> 
> ......wife keeps telling me I should rejoice in what we've been able to do and not be downhearted. She's right, of course, but it's still so hard.


If selling is what you want to do, I wish you the best. It's great to hear you have a good offer so quickly.

Just food for thought that I've read about a number of body blows you've take lately. Passage weather windows, pandemic, boat transport, etc. If the Trawler/Great-Loop concept is something you've always wanted to do, then run toward it, don't focus behind you. If you're settling for second best, because there's been too much pain recently, I'd say you're not ready. You only give up the hike and leave the trail on a good day. Then you know you're ready.

I wish you the best with your decision. If you're downheartened, be sure you understand why.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I appreciate the discussion and analogies between cruising and RVing. Travel for me (us) is not getting off the grid. We love cities, culture, museums and so forth things not suited to RVing. Of course one doesn't have put yourself in a box. Doing "high culture" in a boat is not what people use them for I suppose. I know after I had been in the tropics and off the grid for 4 or 5 years I discovered I really missed "high culture" and what the energy of a metropolis like NY or SF or Paris or Firenze offers. Boat and RV are in a sense maintenance heavy... compared to other ways of seeing parts of the world.

Additionally, as I get closer to the end I want to own less, have fewer obligations and leave with what I came - nothing. I am having to "manage" the end of life matters for my sister who is in end stages of dementia which includes dealing with all her possessions. I loved when I lived aboard having so few possessions... and that was a very "freeing" feeling. I firmly feel possessions is an illness and an obsession of this culture... and it really is not good for the environment or the planet. Have a small footprint and leave a clean wake sounds right to me.

I have few regrets and it has been an interesting journey and I have some lovely memories of my time on terra firma.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I’d love to give an RV trip a try, but there is no long term attraction. I said to my wife a month or two back, wouldn’t it be fun to buy one of the 2020 mid engine Corvettes, pack a small travel bag and credit card and tour the country. Of course, that’s a lot of hotels. Maybe it’s the adventure, but even though we’re not doing that, it sounded fun to both of us.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> If selling is what you want to do, I wish you the best. It's great to hear you have a good offer so quickly.
> 
> Just food for thought that I've read about a number of body blows you've take lately. Passage weather windows, pandemic, boat transport, etc. If the Trawler/Great-Loop concept is something you've always wanted to do, then run toward it, don't focus behind you. If you're settling for second best, because there's been too much pain recently, I'd say you're not ready. You only give up the hike and leave the trail on a good day. Then you know you're ready.
> 
> I wish you the best with your decision. If you're downheartened, be sure you understand why.


Not surprising ARCB got an offer so quick. Just got the winter storage contract from the boatyard. Boating took off this year thanks to COVID situation. They now have a five year waiting period for slips and their off site boat storage yard is going to be full. It's a good time to sell after the months of restrictions on peoples lives. I notice the traffic in the channel is very busy on the weekends more than years past. People want to get back to real living and a boat is one way to escape the restrictions on land and why not.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> I'd love to give an RV trip a try, but there is no long term attraction. I said to my wife a month or two back, wouldn't it be fun to buy one of the 2020 mid engine Corvettes, pack a small travel bag and credit card and tour the country. Of course, that's a lot of hotels. Maybe it's the adventure, but even though we're not doing that, it sounded fun to both of us.


Quite right. I do miss the serendipitous side of life these days. Not sure my plan to get someplace warm every month during the winter is going to pan out this winter. That and the ability to plan for our winter January charter adds to the ma laze. We cancelled our annual May Bahamas charter and I my Key West Trip in April. Still don't know if it will happen next year at this point. So disappointing not to have anything to look forward to or jump on at the last minute. But, we are going to spend next week at the beach on eastern Long Island. Where my gal can once again do her morning walks along the ocean. So that has been something more or less the bright spot of normality this summer. One thing I do know for sure is that I'll be able to spend next summer on the boat. It will still be there and I have no desire to sell. It has been a great escape for me and will continue to do so. Vaccine or no vaccine.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> I appreciate the discussion and analogies between cruising and RVing. Travel for me (us) is not getting off the grid. We love cities, culture, museums and so forth things not suited to RVing. Of course one doesn't have put yourself in a box. Doing "high culture" in a boat is not what people use them for I suppose. I know after I had been in the tropics and off the grid for 4 or 5 years I discovered I really missed "high culture" and what the energy of a metropolis like NY or SF or Paris or Firenze offers. Boat and RV are in a sense maintenance heavy... compared to other ways of seeing parts of the world.
> 
> Additionally, as I get closer to the end I want to own less, have fewer obligations and leave with what I came - nothing. I am having to "manage" the end of life matters for my sister who is in end stages of dementia which includes dealing with all her possessions. I loved when I lived aboard having so few possessions... and that was a vert "freeing" feeling. I firmly feel possessions is an illness and an obsession of this culture... and it really is not good for the environment or the planet. Have a small footprint and leave a clean wake sounds right to me.
> 
> I have few regrets and it has been an interesting journey and I have some lovely memories of my time on terra firma.


My friends who have had both told me that their RV had very little maintainence compared their old boats. 
That's one ofmy reasons too. As we age the boat maintainence will get away from me.

The carbon foot print of this RV is much smaller than our 35 ft fiberglass boat with a diesel a
Engine. A lot of the components made from recycled materials.

while we have downsized as we got older, it makes no sense to leave money on the table. You cant take it with you.

my last three abroad experiences were that there was a very negative attitude about us ugly Americans. Only exception was Canada. I fear much worse anti American attitude the last 4 years. I'd rather visit American Hawaii than some dictatorship in the Caribbean. I'm not against them and certainly not anti anything. I am just pro American. Besides Hawaii is beyond gorgeous.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I've pondered the whole RV thing for years now, as post sailing option. From what my friends who do it tell me, you need to plan a year in advance to get a spot in some of the more popular National Parks etc. Lot's of rules. etc. I also don't want to share a camping experience with hundreds or thousands of strangers. Perhaps, it's the old backpacker in me. I like to enjoy nature without a crowd. Which is what drew me to sailing. I think my Kayak on top of the Subaru and my tent, a pack, a cooler, a stove are about my speed.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

chef2sail said:


> My friends who have had both told me that their RV had very little maintainence compared their old boats.


I hate to break it to you RVs are anything but low maintenance. My Dad bought a new RV in his late 70's and did quite a bit of traveling around the US. He bought a new highly regarded third wheel with the idea it would be low maintenance. It wasn't. His maintenance budget far exceeded the cost of maintenance on his 25 year old 42 footer.

As he put it, RVs are badly built boats. Pop
Jeff


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Jeff_H said:


> As he put it, RVs are badly built boats. Pop.


There is some irony that the thread started with me cursing the wiring on my trailer and associated issues with a nearly new tow vehicle


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> As he put it, RVs are badly built boats. Pop


It's not my impression that RVs are necessarily any cheaper to maintain than boats. But they may be easier given all the immediately accessible land-based services. At least with an RV it can't (normally) sink out from underneath you.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

So wh


Jeff_H said:


> I hate to break it to you RVs are anything but low maintenance. My Dad bought a new RV in his late 70's and did quite a bit of traveling around the US. He bought a new highly regarded third wheel with the idea it would be low maintenance. It wasn't. His maintenance budget far exceeded the cost of maintenance on his 25 year old 42 footer.
> 
> As he put it, RVs are badly built boats. Pop
> Jeff


I'm interested some more specifics in this statement.

Maybe I should have used the word operating costs instead of maintenance, though maintenance
is part of that ( a large part.) What type of RV did your dad have Jeff? Was it motorized? I'm not getting a motorized RV. It's a trailer. Not sure what a third wheel is, was it a fifth wheel?

One might quibble in saying slip fees don't count as maintenanc but is an expense I don't have with an RV.
So what are the maintainence costs specifically? I'm interested in hearing what he / you felt he needed to maintain every year. I have a list what I expected but maybe I neglected something major, I need a little specificity.

i already know what my boats operating and maintenance costs are costs are as I have kept a spreadsheet of annual costs I spent for the last 10 years . It has tabs for maintenance , Capitol improvements and annual fees and costs.

I don't have to tell you , it's staggering, lol. We all know maintaining a boat to use each year is not cheap. As a percentage of expenditure it is way more than my vehicles and is almost equal to my house.

I include under maintenance , any product fee I require to fix repair to keep the boat in the water and for it to run. This includes bottom paint, waxing, broken mechanical items like starters, batteries, . All west marine, defender, and other website purchases. Canvas and Sailrite expenditures. Labor if needed for items I can't do myself.

I include under Capitol improvements: electronics, sails,

I include under fees: slip, licenses, insurance

My slip fees alone are $4000 dollars an expenditure I don't have with an RV.

I hope I haven't forgotten something major.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Chef, maybe you could share why you won't have slip fees for a Trailer spot ? I've attended winter RV shows for years. One of the largest displays are all the various RV camps, State and National Parks, etc. AFIK, they all charge fees for parking spots. or campsites for trailers. Often there are extra fees for water, electric and waste hookups ( not unlike some marinas). Some of those daily fees in the nicest spots are almost as much as one would pay for a night in a motel. There's a Camp site on Cape Cod that I've been going to occasionally for almost 40 years. It was $ 6.00/night when I first started going. It costs $70.00/ night now + $6.00 for an electric hook-up. Most of the sites are Tent only sites. It was a family owned campground, now the state owns it. The other expense that I see, is fuel. The MPG fuel costs on some of the RV's are in the single digits. Granted, one might fare better with a trailer than a class A or C, but fuel is still a major travel expense in an RV, that is not a big line item expense on my sailboat. I understand that your driveway has free parking, but most anywhere you travel to there will be costs to park a trailer, except maybe a Walmart parking lot or a boon dock in the desert. Do you have a secret sauce to share? ;-)


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Minnie Eric Ericsson wrote extensively about the stages of life. This is stage transition. All come with their joys and difficulties.
i came back from Rhode Island. We have to do a list of the improvements we’ve done since building her. I’m worthless on dates so brought the bride. Going through the file locker started to throw out all the C&I papers. Hard to not reminisce. This evening will be typing up that list.

Part of me says if I still have a good seaboat under my feet I’ll be just fine. I like ocean nights and the solitude of a watch. Part of me understands air and water draft restrictions. Other than center consoles and very large expedition ships I don’t like the looks of power cats. Purely emotional. So there’s a conflict. Stabilized, long range trawler v pleasure tug or fast trawler. We discussed it on the drives back and forth. No resolution.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

tempest said:


> Chef, maybe you could share why you won't have slip fees for a Traile&
> 
> 
> tempest said:
> ...


good points.

First a misnomer There are many places to stop when traveling between major destination. Walmart's is a stereotype. Just like sailing has Active Captain and Sailnet. RVers have similar blogs and informative sites. Most communities allow schools to be used as long as you leave and don't interfere. The key is to ask permission where ever you stay. Major interstates with truck stops allow you to stay over night.

Just like with sailing there are many subgroups in the RVusers. The retired couples is one and a smaller one. There is lots of internet support and information.

we intend to use the RV on two 6 week vacations a year. Maybe a few weekends. We still have Haleakula . More if we retired her. We use Haleakula roughly 120 days a year. It will probably decrease some. The daily operating costs of a sailboat are staggering. Make a spreadsheet. It's a luxury for most. So is an RV. It's not going to win any cost effective arguments

. For non retirees I get it. But that's not where we are. We are retired. The IRS requires we liquidate $60,000 a year in tax free monies. Yes we worked hard and save responsibly for 40 years to get to that. But it is what it is. We worked hard to enjoy retirement . A 25 year ( hopefully) time in our lives limited not by working but only by our health and financial position. We are not leaving money on the table .

we are not marina lovers except ours and it's safe harbor for Haleakula. Our RV profile wile not have us in campgrounds more than 20% of the time. That's how we use Haleakula. Using my knowledge I've learned boating we are adding a robust 12 volt system . Most RV are not set up like that. Family RV need to plug in. We will have 3 firefly AGM an inverter charger and two 135 solar panels. The refrigerator is propane/ electric, as is the water heater and 30,000 btu furnace. Off grid they work off the 60 lbs of propane we carry. A Honda300 with added remote start is for air conditioning if we really need it and extended boondocking ( anchoring) . All this allows us to live off grid. We won't be staying in RV parks extensively. The three tanks are large. Grey water 120 gallons can go down a storm drain and water is 80 gallons . Black water is 42 gallons.

I understand National Parks are very crowded, but there are off periods when kids are in school ( hopefully) . SAMS is a discount of up to 50% off rates in campgrounds. Seniors pay next to nothing to visit national parks. We will not be going campground to campground. We will probably go to an area , unhitch and explore with the truck.

The truck becomes my vehicle used year round with little mileage as we have another car, and we are retired not commuting to work. Yes 10 mpg is daunting mileage pulling the trailer but it is what it is.

This is our choice and dream to do. We wouldn't be happy and aren't just flying so where renting a car staying in a B&B or condo for 2 week vacations. That has cost apps an average of $10,000 per vacation twice a year now. We sill will do that but the RV is a nice alternative to explore the US and Canada and it's culture and beauty.

it is interesting, Outbound is doing something similar with a trawler. No one is asking these same questions. Maybe because it's a boat. Doing this is not cheap , we know that. I'm not going into it with blinders on, and probably haven't thought about a lot of things so I appreciate the query's.

I though the thread was to explore what others matrix's were about getting out of sailing. It's been nice to hear what others are doing. You do what works best for you and your situation and family . I am suprised at the negativity of some posting saying " I'd never do that" . To be honest you weren't asked if you would be an RV er , and quite frankly I don't care if it's not your cup of tea. The negativity isn't necessary , but it's Sailnet after all.

JeffH , Tempests comments were germane looking to see if I'd thought of other aspects. I am thankful as it makes me think. Just like others on the RV sites I've joined for information and netwroking. I must say they are a hell of a lot friendlier overall for a newbie like me that it is here.

We are excited about our new chapter in our book. Covid 19 , Quitting a lifetime career of working ( thank goodness I mostly enjoyed it as my wife did as a newborn nurse) has been thought provoking enough. These are giant paradigm shifts in our lives. I've seen so many go down a drain when they retire, we are bound and determined to not do that. I've seen many do the same as some heath and physical limitations make them mortal .

We all have an end date determined by our maker. We intend on living this chapter with gusto and exploration like we have previous chapters. It's in our DNA and I'm looking forward to doing the RV ing with my partner and wife. We can always switch directions, but this is our matrix


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Chef, Thanks for the response. A couple of things: I understand, there are intermediate low or no cost stops between destinations. I.E. Truck stops, Rest Stops, A friend's driveway, and Walmart etc. I wasn't stereotyping Walmart. t's just one of the popular choices. Also, I'm not challenging your life decisions. I've been thinking about the possibility of an RV for many years now. With, of course, one of the 1st decision points being do you tow your home, or do you tow a car. My interest was mainly in how you planned on keeping the costs of staying somewhere " Nice" down. I understand " Anchoring" with regards to boating, anchorages are pretty well known and charted, thus, I'm not questioning a trawler. ( something, I've also considered) You kind of answered my question when you say you plan on dropping the self sufficient trailer and exploring an area with the truck. ( a benefit of towing ). I guess the next question is how readily available are those low/no cost drop sites? Maybe, I need to do a little more research into that aspect. For example: where could I drop a trailer on Cape Cod or in Maine for free, or inexpensively and spend a week or two exploring by truck or foot. ( rhetorical) , I would also imagine, that anything free in a nice location is going to not be a secret. So off season is certainly going to be a consideration.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

tempest said:


> Chef, Thanks for the response. A couple of things: I understand, there are intermediate low or no cost stops between destinations. I.E. Truck stops, Rest Stops, A friend's driveway, and Walmart etc. I wasn't stereotyping Walmart. t's just one of the popular choices. Also, I'm not challenging your life decisions. I've been thinking about the possibility of an RV for many years now. With, of course, one of the 1st decision points being do you tow your home, or do you tow a car. My interest was mainly in how you planned on keeping the costs of staying somewhere " Nice" down. I understand " Anchoring" with regards to boating, anchorages are pretty well known and charted, thus, I'm not questioning a trawler. ( something, I've also considered) You kind of answered my question when you say you plan on dropping the self sufficient trailer and exploring an area with the truck. ( a benefit of towing ). I guess the next question is how readily available are those low/no cost drop sites? Maybe, I need to do a little more research into that aspect. For example: where could I drop a trailer on Cape Cod or in Maine for free, or inexpensively and spend a week or two exploring by truck or foot. ( rhetorical) , I would also imagine, that anything free in a nice location is going to not be a secret. So off season is certainly going to be a consideration.


Sorry if it appeared by response was specific to you. I wanted to answer your questions. 
I suggest you join a few online blogs and Facebook ( if you use it) groups. It has a lot of gibberish ( more than here) but there are some nuggets and links which are very educational. I am starting another spreadsheet with these sites.

there are also a lot of sites with how to set up a budget/ costs of maintainence etc. if you should need that.
I will PM some as soon as I have started by spreadsheet.

Many of the sites in Maine for instance in the non touristy areas which don't have pools, all the necessary " family amenities" are much cheaper and with a Sams membership average out to $20-30 a night tops. Especially on a weeks stay. That allows you to pull out your slides, anchor your RV feet and use it as a home base. Then we can use our truck easily within a couple hundred mile radius.

The rest stop/ schools, Walmart's, casinos, unimproved state parks , allow you to stop overnight , but not necessarily set up camp. You just are using them as pit stops just like the truckers do to move you RV. These are plentiful. As you dig into it there are many oppertiniuties. When you start exploring wide open areas like Canada,Western and northern US the oppertunity to boondock is greater. There are many unimproved sites available without electricity or sanitation facilities....but you have enough on boRd to easily last a week. Sewer dumps are much more prevelant that pump outs for boats. Most RV dealers and truck stops have them.

we decided on the non motorized trailer because of its size, and also it's mobility. We need two vehicles but one we only occasionally use is fine because we don't need to commute separately to work daily. I suggest though buying a used / new truck nicely equipped as you will spend time in it. SUV are not powerful enough . We've decided V-8 vrs diesel though I really like diesel because in order to have consistent horse power you need added turbos on it. It's one think to love a truck you use like a car, and occasionally use to pull a load, and get another to pull a trailer consistently thousands of miles. V-8 doesn't work as hard IMHO. Right now this is my ne t real search as I try and educate myself on the,. Once you decide on engine choice then the available choices get narrowed considerably.
All three American companies sell them. Nissan does, Toyota does but not so much . Dodge has huge number of different set ups with 10,000 capabilities present. We don't need quite that much. I've never owned a truck. Biggest vehicle is the Highlander ( which I've loved ) now. Mercedes has some good vehicles too. Lots of the motorized homes have Mercedes engines. The truck actually is the most major expense. You can buy a very nice trailer new for $30-$40 K and used for half of that.

there are major differences between trailer brands even though many are under 3-4 main umbrella companies. 
like cars...you have Yugos, Chevys, Oldsmobile's, Cadillacs, Toyota's and Mercedes. The build and goof qualities are some of the biggest differences. Frames beleive it or not are fairly similar. Aluminum shells are the cheapest...Fiberglass the more expensive. Roofs are very different and very important. Most models you can't walk on . In our particular model the hollow aluminum frame for the "cabin" has dowels inserted in them anywhere screws are used so when the trailer flexes ( like a boat ) they are not just s dewed into the tube and work loose. The way the joint seams between panels come together differ wildly. Some are just flashing with butyl, some are Mylar wraps then flashing. All are factors . Air conditioners are ducted or not. Same with heat. We didn't want floor registers and they accumulate dirt so our floor vents come through the sides of fixtures. Most RV don't have much insulation. And certainly not around the tanks, fills etc beneath the trailer. We are buying a 4 season trailer. I've been reasear hung the trailers for a year once we de died to go that route vs the motorized route. Length is important as many parks have limits ( especially federal ) of 33-35 ft. On and on it goes....just like a sailboat??


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

On my motorcycle trip through much of the west and mid USA states I found a lot of free or inexpensive (~$5-$10/night) camping. These had no services, but the price was right. There are large BLM areas in through the deserts and dry States like Arizona. And some States offer good deals on annual passes to their State parks. Some under developed National Forests are very inexpensive. 

I've not experience the eastern States. I've read it is harder to find free/cheap RV spots, but some do exist (outside of the commercial parking lots, which of course exist everywhere). But it's probably easier out west.

In Canada I can camp for free on Crown Land for up to three weeks at a time (I think foreigners must pay a small amount). Of course most Crown Land is found in more northern/remote areas of our provinces, and there's no services. 

Most small to mid-sized towns and cities operate municipal camp grounds which are often cheap or free. They do this to draw tourists to their town.

So much like remote anchoring, there are ways to avoid costly RV campgrounds, but you have to be able/willing to live independently. This means good tankage, storage, and being electrically independent.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> On my motorcycle trip through much of the west and mid USA states I found a lot of free or inexpensive (~$5-$10/night) camping. These had no services, but the price was right. There are large BLM areas in through the deserts and dry States like Arizona. And some States offer good deals on annual passes to their State parks. Some under developed National Forests are very inexpensive.
> 
> I've not experience the eastern States. I've read it is harder to find free/cheap RV spots, but some do exist (outside of the commercial parking lots, which of course exist everywhere). But it's probably easier out west.
> 
> ...


Good to know

Thanks for the info.

As I get closer to this in the next year and start planning our first 6 week soirée, I will definitely ask you to share some specific. Trailer is ordered and should be finished latest in March. I'm planning our first long trip to Maine,NH, Vt and Canada for 6 weeks starting July first. It's too hot to sail on the Chessie then.

Hopefully the border is open by then


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

If Al is cheaper why are Airstreams so expensive? Why do see very old Airstreams doing quite well?

Reality is hitting. boat was shown once and have a buyer. In final negotiations now. Have others in line. Filling out paperwork. Don’t know whether to smile or frown. 

Wife and I talked long and hard about RVs. We have “cruised” the US on bikes. Sturgis, tail of the dragon, Cabot trial etc. We stay in hotels/motels. RVs /trailers are an anchor. Unless very small you need a second vehicle to wander around. You don’t wander pulling a trailer. You don’t do cities in 30+ foot RV. You’re pretty much committed to one limited style of travel. Even with the $300k 4 wheel drive expedition ones you’re fine in the desert or rock crawling but dealing with headaches in urban or single track settings. So we looked at ones with a toy box/garage and trailing a Jeep. Now you have big money into it so feel obligated to use it. Storage becomes an issue and like boats things magically break when not used. We like to wander. No fixed schedule. A destination but even that’s fluid. Have friends who RV. Most end up doing a circuit. Kind of like “cruising” the BVIs. People go around and around the same places. New England to Florida seems popular. Maybe a stop in Nashville or Dollywood. Maybe a detour once in awhile. Some do the 4 corners but they seem more driven. Needing to pack in the miles. Some do loops of varying distance from their homes. 
at first it seemed very appealing. We just be transferring from boat cruising to land cruising. But as I became more aware of the pragmatics it lost its luster. If wandering is your goal get on a bike and bring a credit card. If you want to see the sights get in a good 4 by suv or pickmeup. We’ve traveled with fishing gear, tents and a Oru 2 person folding kayak in the back of the Jeep summit. Sometimes we use that stuff sometimes not at all. Would strongly suggest renting one before making the jump.

Been having serious discussions with the bride now that being boatless is a imminent reality. She is still in favor of a long distance trawler. Will buy used this time. She’s thinking something that can get us to the Bahamas, ABCs and Central America as weve never explored them beyond passing through. There are KKs with drafts under 5’ which would leave the loop open. She likes the maritimes and the keys and wants to go back. So the Norhavns are still in the running as well. Still juggling a lots of ideas. But at least for us, liking to wander and liking solitude RVs are off the list.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> If Al is cheaper why are Airstreams so expensive?


Probably, because just like GM said 20 years ago, the cost of health care coverage for their employees cost more than the steel in the car. Literally. GM, at the time, was the single largest purchaser of health insurance in the country. Doubt it's gotten better.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I look forward to reading Chef's post on SN about his RVing experiences. I don't doubt that the beginning will be a hoot. But he's a smart guy and may discover something different about the experience than what he expected despite his research.

What the core things which are similar between RV and sailboat... which makes a sailor feel comfortable RVing?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Air streams are expensive for a few reasons. They're kind of cool. Built a bit like aircraft. Aluminum skin on aluminum frames, light weight, low centre of gravity. They're nice gear.

Helped my neighbour a bit refurbishing an old RV this spring. It was a bit of a nightmare. Plywood walls with an aluminum veneer. They had water intrusion issues, almost like a cored deck on a sailboat with water intrusion. Wood that came out was heavy, rotten and waterlogged.





__





How It's Made: Travel Trailers







www.airstream.com


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> If Al is cheaper why are Airstreams so expensive? Why do see very old Airstreams doing quite well?
> 
> Reality is hitting. boat was shown once and have a buyer. In final negotiations now. Have others in line. Filling out paperwork. Don't know whether to smile or frown.
> 
> ...


That's not how we intend on using our RV going from one organized upscale place to another. sounds like your friends require some kind of luxury. There are boaters who travel like that too....one anchorage in the Carribean to another. That doesn't meet our needs and really is not a way to immerse yourself in the culture of the area.

just like boats there are people who use the RV many ways. Never heard or even read of this " loop phenomena" you spoke of. I've been immersed in lots of different blogs and sites and know hint of this. We decided this route vs a trawler as the trawler is restricted to a water route which by its nature restricts and eliminates many of the beautiful places we wish to see and travel to. You cant see and immerse yourself in the Rockies in Alberta from the enclosed cabin of a trawler. You cant see sunsets on the plains . Trawlers can be nice for those who are fixated on the water part of their lives. We thought the trailer expanded the choices a little more. That's what drove us. Maybe your friends had different goals how they used their RV. Sounds like they wanted to see tourist traps.

The trailer detaches easily from a truck so no need to fret about taking into a big city, like I mentioned you can find a small safe campground on the outskirts . Weekly rates are what you'd pay for 1-2 nights in a marina. Using the trailer as home base is one of our greatest varieties. It allows easy touring and travels not restricted by the trailer or being on a major waterway.

How about just talking about the positives of why you are deciding to go the trawler route without explaining the negatives as you or your friends see them of using a trailer. They are specific to how they chose to use theirs and don't reflect the majority of people who enjoy that lifestyle. I don't find it necessary to explain why I didn't choose the trawler route. There are many many reasons.

Let's focus on what we/ you decided to do after your sailboat vs picking apart someone else's choices. Not sure that's possible on this site with this group.?


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

My bad. Just we spent months talking about that choice and walked away. Wish you the best of luck and hope you have too much fun.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Speaking for me and me only... I have no experience with RVing but as I wrote above I see some analogies to cruising... So I repeat is the motivation and ownership / use analogous to cruising...,how so and how is different?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Arcb said:


> Air streams are expensive for a few reasons. They're kind of cool. Built a bit like aircraft. Aluminum skin on aluminum frames, light weight, low centre of gravity. They're nice gear.
> 
> Helped my neighbour a bit refurbishing an old RV this spring. It was a bit of a nightmare. Plywood walls with an aluminum veneer. They had water intrusion issues, almost like a cored deck on a sailboat with water intrusion. Wood that came out was heavy, rotten and waterlogged.
> 
> ...


Air streams are living on a reputation built years ago. They have not ever really changed their designs . They lack the ability to open up slides so it's like being in a silver bullet .

What you found in the wood situation is common on the the wood frame built RV. Water intrusion is the big enemy. 
just like in boats some take great preventative measures. Almost all top line RV don't use wood frames they use aluminum. As far as skin, you have the same issues with aluminum that boats have. The water intrudes due to incorrect connecting of the seams, incorrect bedding of screws. If they move around when the RV flexes then there leaves an opening for water ingress. Boat quality is similar between manufacturers.

most boats are built with gel coat not aluminum , why is that if aluminum is better. RV have learned from the marine industry how to use the fiberglass model of building. Airstreams are dinosaurs.


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## Izzy (Feb 14, 2016)

Maybe it would be more appropriate to take your arguments and bickering over to some sort of RV or trailer forum...


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

We have been looking at trailers for quite a few years. I like Airstreams, I also like aluminum boats. 

We do a ton of van camping. Probably more than we sail. We have a nice tent set up, kitchen tent with a head vestibule and a sleeping tent with standing head room. Just in the last few years we have done about a dozen states and 4 provinces. I like it. 

I do like Airstreams longevity, balance and fit and finish. Just an opinion.

Chef, I have seen some awesome RV set ups with a folding davit on the roof from which a small sailboat could be launched probably not a beach cat, but maybe a Sunfish or Walker Bay type boat.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> Speaking for me and me only... I have no experience with RVing but as I wrote above I see some analogies to cruising... So I repeat is the motivation and ownership / use analogous to cruising...,how so and how is different?


I was never a cruiser so I can't really comment as well as someone who has, but I have friends who are. 
To immerse myself in it, I would have had to give up I important parts of what I enjoy. I would have had to add to one dimensional view of us which was only the water part. My partner also would never have done it. I'm not negative to it, and those who chose it.

I don't really see the commonalities between using an RV and long term cruising. I see mostly differences. They are very different.

Remember I'm not giving up my sailboat, at least until I can't physically do it anymore. I should still be using it almost as much as I do now. I see the RV as adding on to what we do. We don't work anymore. That took up much of our time and energy. Now we have that time to do something else and different. Cruising would be using the boat more not less. We would need a different boat. We would need to travel long periods away from home. We know that our health is fine now. But it requires us both be healthy.

RV is something different. New things to see. Easily adaptable. Chance to see our great country and Canada in a very up close and personal way, not just a snapshot from a car, or airplane. We often chide the powerboaters as they are destination focused . Sailboaters I find is more about the journey. You are immersed in it. You see the eagles nesting and fishing.

This is an uplifting and very positive direction for my wife and I. A chance to continue our bond doing something together. That may sound sappy to some, but to those who have what I have I know you understand. We are excited to add this to our repertoire. We are fortunate to have the financial resources. Eyes wide open: Yes there are negatives....just like boat ownership. Overall the positives far outweigh them.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Izzy said:


> Maybe it would be more appropriate to take your arguments and bickering over to some sort of RV or trailer forum...


I disagree. I find the discussion interesting and informative. Never knew much about RVs but it is nice to profit from Chef's research, and also to read contrasting view points.

Feel free to ignore this thread. Clearly, other sailors are interested in it.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Izzy said:


> Maybe it would be more appropriate to take your arguments and bickering over to some sort of RV or trailer forum...


Maybe you can just skip the discussion and find other posts to read. I don't see arguments .

as a new member if you can't get used to give and take on forums this may not be the place for you. This thread is pretty tame in terms of disagreements


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Many of the very top end boats, both motor and sail, are in Al. Nearly all high lat boats are. The revolutionary Artnautica, Arksen and the more traditional K&Ms are. Most patrol boats and other small commercial craft most military and law enforcement is in Al. Compared to traditional grp Al is stronger by weight. Can be cut with wood working tools. Doesn’t require coating above the waterline. Can be formed into complex curves. Isn’t brittle so unlike grp will stretch on severe impact and not hole. Provides a whole ship faraday box. Allows multiple modes of construction such as Strongall, skin on frame, rvetinging, welding hydraulic bending etc. allows no piercing chainplates and no piercing mounting of equipment thereby markly decreasing green water(fresh water) ingress. Requires less maintenance than grp.
If properly constructed and if electrical systems are done correctly one can reasonably expect a longer service life from Al then grp. With grp the grp is for ever for all intents and purposes but water ingress, corrosion of components and wear not the hull structural integrity shorten service life. Techniques to isolate dissimilar metals and eliminate stray current are well understood and employed by the good builders in Al. The concerns of the past have been controlled.
if I had the bucks I’d be in Al. If I had continued to pursue RVing I would have no issue with a TIG welded Al skin. That would eliminate concerns of water ingress except at windows and doors. Proper mounting, design and gasketing makes that a non issue as well.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

For one offs alum is a sensible material... but it is spendy.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> Many of the very top end boats, both motor and sail, are in Al. Nearly all high lat boats are. The revolutionary Artnautica, Arksen and the more traditional K&Ms are. Most patrol boats and other small commercial craft most military and law enforcement is in Al. Compared to traditional grp Al is stronger by weight. Can be cut with wood working tools. Doesn't require coating above the waterline. Can be formed into complex curves. Isn't brittle so unlike grp will stretch on severe impact and not hole. Provides a whole ship faraday box. Allows multiple modes of construction such as Strongall, skin on frame, rvetinging, welding hydraulic bending etc. allows no piercing chainplates and no piercing mounting of equipment thereby markly decreasing green water(fresh water) ingress. Requires less maintenance than grp.
> If properly constructed and if electrical systems are done correctly one can reasonably expect a longer service life from Al then grp. With grp the grp is for ever for all intents and purposes but water ingress, corrosion of components and wear not the hull structural integrity shorten service life. Techniques to isolate dissimilar metals and eliminate stray current are well understood and employed by the good builders in Al. The concerns of the past have been controlled.
> if I had the bucks I'd be in Al. If I had continued to pursue RVing I would have no issue with a TIG welded Al skin. That would eliminate concerns of water ingress except at windows and doors. Proper mounting, design and gasketing makes that a non issue as well.


There's an obvious reason that the majority of sailboats and now RV are made from fiberglass









Aluminum vs. Fiberglass RV Siding


What's the difference between Fiberglass or Aluminum RV siding? Is fiberglass siding better than aluminum for your RV? Get the answer from Good Life RV.




www.glrv.com





Gas mileage, maintainence, resale value
While aluminum is a reasonable choice , go kick the tires at a few RV dealerships. I'd never go with aluminum as you'd have a constantly dirty looking RV with dirt trapped in its ridges. Only the " silver bullet" is the exception, but has no slides


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Here's just one example to debunk that myth that you have to go to a crowded RV park or Walmart to stay when traveling



https://www.exsplore.com/blog/harvest-hosts-reviews?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5qGSjduk6wIVEdvACh1X-AQSEAAYASAAEgLuk_D_BwE


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

chef2sail said:


> There's an obvious reason that the majority of sailboats and now RV are made from fiberglass


One big reason is it's cheaper than some alternatives like carbon fibre and aluminum.

I have spent a lot of time in aluminum boats. They can be pretty awesome.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> I look forward to reading Chef's post on SN about his RVing experiences. I don't doubt that the beginning will be a hoot. But he's a smart guy and may discover something different about the experience than what he expected despite his research.
> 
> What the core things which are similar between RV and sailboat... which makes a sailor feel comfortable RVing?


It's possible I'll be disappointed, I am a proponent that experience beats book knowledge . I learned more and more on sail boating the longer I was in it. I never could have fathomed what the wonderful experience it was and all the avenues we have explored by reading literature. I suspect we will hit challenges , just like on the boat, however we can analyze, adjust, and overcome.

The comforting thing is we have RV friends who've done it for years.
My wife and I are adventuresome , and that will lead us to many areas people wouldn't normally take .

I just can't see floating around on a boat for more than the 120 days we do now. We are still keeping Haleakula. We will still take trips of a few weeks as we still love the water and she's paid for and we have all the time in the world


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> For one offs alum is a sensible material... but it is spendy.


actually in RVs aluminum is the cheap way to go.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> actually in RVs aluminum is the cheap way to go.


I don't know the technology for construction... But I believe because of molds and so forth one off done in GRP should cost more... but again I am not familiar of the structure and envelop factors.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> It's possible I'll be disappointed, I am a proponent that experience beats book knowledge . I learned more and more on sail boating the longer I was in it. I never could have fathomed what the wonderful experience it was and all the avenues we have explored by reading literature. I suspect we will hit challenges , just like on the boat, however we can analyze, adjust, and overcome.
> 
> The comforting thing is we have RV friends who've done it for years.
> My wife and I are adventuresome , and that will lead us to many areas people wouldn't normally take .
> ...


I am envious of your energy and desire to get out and take on something like this...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Things I mentioned are all production in series manufacturing. Not a one off among them.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> I am envious of your energy and desire to get out and take on something like this...


Thanks Jeff.

Ride it till you lose it as they say. It will keep the type AA part of my psyche engaged and thinking and the recreational laid back part of my psyche engaged as well.

Gave me a goal to work towards as the physical therapist bent my knee till I cried in rehabbing it from the total replacement .

Helps to have my wife who shares the enthusiasm. We vowed to keep that till either physically wear out or father tine comes and gets us😀


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> Thanks Jeff.
> 
> Ride it till you lose it as they say. It will keep the type AA part of my psyche engaged and thinking and the recreational laid back part of my psyche engaged as well.
> 
> ...


What's interesting, though it should be self evident... you don't appreciate what you have til it's gone. So for things like physical activity, stamina and so forth... so much is taken for granted and one doesn't conceive of living a life with a range of compromised capabilities. But aging is about the body functionality / capacity slipping away.... whether it is vision, hearing, balance, strength, flexibility etc. These often slowly degrade almost without being aware. For example I notice how much more difficult... or that it is difficult to doing things like working with small screws. My manual dexterity is obviously not what is. Add to that declining vision and having to use glasses makes seeing "detail" difficult as it wasn't before. I can still do these things... but I am aware my efficiency and proficiency is definitely not what it was and it's not going to get better. This is not temporary.
I suppose at some point one has to take stock and accept that owning, maintaining, sailing a boat has become a challenge in a way it never was. and at some point it makes sense to stop, conclude your active sailing and find other ways to pass your time.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Chef this is outside my area of knowledge but the comments section of the link you posted speaks contrary to the author. My understanding is the variables are
thickness of skin
Al or wood framing
closed cell foam or fiberglass mat insulation 
rivetted or TIG
quality of components 
prefab unit drop in or built in place allowing intern access to structure

I‘m sure it’s like boats. In every material there’s good, excellent and not so much.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Is true .

I’m not sure I’ll be able to drive an RV trailer when I’m 80 , 14 years from now, he’ll they probably will want to take my license from me. Another reason now is the time.

i hadn’t planned on retiring till 70.... that’s 4 more years. Covid made me rethink that. I don’t really want to go back and go through the growing pains and aggravation of the new paradigms in the food industry this will leave for us let alone the difficulty in running
Profit and Loss businesses after this has decimated people buying power.

my wife was going to work 2 more years, but as s newborn nurse her workplace has radically changed. With Covid babies and mothers present it has been a very tense place to work. The nursery in a hospital is usually a place of joy, but mothers andbabies are staying one night as their fears of being in the hospital. Her due dilligence to remain uninflected have taken away from holding the babies and she does now behind a full face plate mask a welder wears.

This sped up our timeline. It has caused us to think about the retirement, where to move to, what to do without extra time that we worked so hard all these years to get to.

And yes the realization we are entering a period our physical bodies will be increasingly compromised. Funny we don’t really think about that and try and stay positive but it is a reality which is present.

I’ve considered my self lucky to recovered fully pain free from the back operation and 8 months after the knee replacement am already much better physically that having it. The risks were worth the rewards.

Yes I see some slippage mentally, lol , but arrogantly felt I had a lot I could slip before it would be noticeable to others. I will continue to remain positive and strive for new adventures until I can’t.

A few years ago I got to check An item off my bucket list. I wanted to drive a NASCAR car on a track. I had one young manager tell me it was too dangerous for someone my age ( at the time 60) and it pissed me off. So after I climbed out of an old Jimmy Johnson , only one in it and on the track, 880 hp car after 1.5 hours on the Charlottte 2 mile Raceway, averaging 169 top speed 192 , I sent him a picture. It was one of Neatest things I’ve ever done. I still have a few items to get to. Galapagos, Greenland are two of them. I’m plotting on both already.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> Chef this is outside my area of knowledge but the comments section of the link you posted speaks contrary to the author. My understanding is the variables are
> thickness of skin
> Al or wood framing
> closed cell foam or fiberglass mat insulation
> ...


Yes I saw that and agree with the pros also have cons. You have to weigh them and do what works best

I figure for the 10-15 years I'm doing the RV We are purchasing will suffice , and provided it's works out for us, and we fowhat we buy will last very well. The cost is just north of $40k . Basically my slip fee

to be the vehicle to tow is a wash as I need a vehicle anyway and am I am in the market for one. Though I never had a truck , the ones I am looking at are fairly nice .We still have our boat to use also.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes all


outbound said:


> Chef this is outside my area of knowledge but the comments section of the link you posted speaks contrary to the author. My understanding is the variables are
> thickness of skin
> Al or wood framing
> closed cell foam or fiberglass mat insulation
> ...


 good points and consideration
Many trailers have very minimal insulation

we picked a 4 season one with fiberglass and foam of R40 and r30
Trailer is welded 
Built in place with portal accessses like our boat


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SanderO said:


> What's interesting, though it should be self evident... you don't appreciate what you have til it's gone. So for things like physical activity, stamina and so forth... so much is taken for granted and one doesn't conceive of living a life with a range of compromised capabilities. But aging is about the body functionality / capacity slipping away.... whether it is vision, hearing, balance, strength, flexibility etc. These often slowly degrade almost without being aware. For example I notice how much more difficult... or that it is difficult to doing things like working with small screws. My manual dexterity is obviously not what is. Add to that declining vision and having to use glasses makes seeing "detail" difficult as it wasn't before. I can still do these things... but I am aware my efficiency and proficiency is definitely not what it was and it's not going to get better. This is not temporary.
> I suppose at some point one has to take stock and accept that owning, maintaining, sailing a boat has become a challenge in a way it never was. and at some point it makes sense to stop, conclude your active sailing and find other ways to pass your time.


Indeed one needs to come to terms with aging and make accommodations. Glasses certainly have helped with fading eyes. Though recently night car driving has become a challenge even with wearing driving glasses. The oncoming bright headlights almost blind me until they pass. I make use of the lines on the road to help. I use to start my car trips to and from Washington DC to Long Island at O'dark thirty. Would not consider that today. Currently enjoying a week at the beach on eastern Long Island. Dam it's dark out here with limited street lights. We are doing take out and set my pick up time at around sunset the latest to avoid driving in complete darkness. I also found taking the back roads with almost no other traffic helps quite a bit. Have not sailed at night in several years but, would avoid it now if I can. Though with the chart plotter and virtually no oncoming headlights I imagine it would still be easier than driving these days.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

chef2sail said:


> Is true .
> 
> I'm not sure I'll be able to drive an RV trailer when I'm 80 , 14 years from now, he'll they probably will want to take my license from me. Another reason now is the time.
> 
> ...


A friends aged Uncle use to say: "Son do it while you got the legs." I took that to heart I saw a way to manage to walk away from full time work at 45 years of age and completely stop working at 60. People thought I was crazy. I certainly thought about it for a few months before crossing that bridge. Today I am so glad I did. Had many great years of traveling to places like Los Vequies Venezuela a place that is off the table these days. A boat trip in the Galapagos is a great memory. Likewise five sail charters in the Maldives had us thinking about planning another one for next January. Those plans went poof when COVID came to town. Now my gal wonders if we she will ever be snorkeling with colorful tropical reef fish again. I'm not so pessimistic. But, I don't see anything on the horizon yet and time is not on our side. Right now we are just glad we were able to get a few trips this summer to an ocean beach in eastern Long Island. Luckily her state was not on the New York Quarantine list otherwise this simple pleasure would have been a no-go too.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I enjoy my work as an architect, more than 95% I do from my home office. I would also be bored... am bored when I don't have work or projects at home or on the boat. Not be a golfer type the boat is my "activity",,, physical and mental.... and work keeps my mind going. Boat and work is a lot of organizing and planning. Boat is doing as well.
I became completely turned off by commercial air travel a number of years ago and avoid it like the plague. But it's the only practical way to travel long distance in short time spans like to Europe etc. I did a lot of travel before I was 50 and rarely for work... I am not terribly inspired to trek around the world with my "elder" body.
The aging boat continues to require "renewal" projects... but I let the others do things like the bottom or waxing. As long as things are in good repair and boat is seaworthy and everything on board works I can enjoy being there messing about or sailing. Covid killed the pull of visiting our favorite SN destinations. Hoping next season is a big improvement. Getting rid of the burden without the joy is a consideration.
I don't like driving more than a few hrs so things like LD RVing or even an auto tour of the States is not terribly exciting from that standpoint. 2hrs is OK... 3 hrs is more than I care to drive. So I like the boat to be not too far and close sailing locations have little appeal.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

mbianka said:


> A friends aged Uncle use to say: "Son do it while you got the legs." I took that to heart I saw a way to manage to walk away from full time work at 45 years of age and completely stop working at 60. People thought I was crazy. I certainly thought about it for a few months before crossing that bridge. Today I am so glad I did. Had many great years of traveling to places like Los Vequies Venezuela a place that is off the table these days. A boat trip in the Galapagos is a great memory. Likewise five sail charters in the Maldives had us thinking about planning another one for next January. Those plans went poof when COVID came to town. Now my gal wonders if we she will ever be snorkeling with colorful tropical reef fish again. I'm not so pessimistic. But, I don't see anything on the horizon yet and time is not on our side. Right now we are just glad we were able to get a few trips this summer to an ocean beach in eastern Long Island. Luckily her state was not on the New York Quarantine list otherwise this simple pleasure would have been a no-go too.


I am hoping to follow in your footsteps, retiring at 55. I also am not so pessimistic. By next spring we will have a vaccine and a bunch more treatments. People will resume whatever it was they were doing before. Many find it easy to say - "what if they don't?" - but I think thats like saying what if there is no electricity next year, or if airplanes won't fly next year. This problem is within the scope and expertise of our science. So far that has been shown, however what has also been shown is that our weakness is politics.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Funny I like what I did for a living. Like the people I worked with. Liked moving my industry forward and helping other move their careers forward . My wife is a newborn nursery nurse. She lives her job. Lives taking care of little babies 1-3 days old.

I guess that makes a difference. I never wanted to retire at 45 or even 55. To me just traveling for myself wouldn’t have been enough. Looking at beautiful scenery I don’t discount as I live it too. Seeing other cultures the same. But it wouldn’t have scratched the other sides of me.

no value judgement meant. Everyone is different . I don’t think it’s most people’s top goal is not to work . Maybe I’m wrong. I CG I think your priorities change as you get older though.

My friends all told me I would know when it was time for me. They were right. As I convalesced from my knee replacement instead of just talking about future retirement I started in earnest looking into it . I always knew because of the financial plan I had the money would be there for it, To me it was deciding whether I thought I still was contributing or still wanted to. 

One week after returning to work Covid hit. I had to lay off hundreds. They have yet to return to work. My industry will need to do a paradigm shift to work and make money. I decided after great thought I am not returning once they reopen. I am retiring. At the same tome my wife decided the same.
The reason she loved being a nurse was being taken away.

It’s nice we decided at the same tine so we will stay home and bug each other equally 😄😄😄. I look forward to this time upcoming. That’s also why we are getting into RV but keeping Haleakula. We will have time for both. As long as we use each at least 90 days a year I think we can do that. 

there is so much more to doing RV boondocking than meets the eye. So many misconceptions that most have. It’s challenging and engaging to learn. But that’s innate to me. Not everyone is like that I realize. Some just want to veg out and retire awash with beautiful scenery and snorkeling. I understand that. You have to figure out what makes you tick to enjoy the last 1/4 of your life and then do it. I feel fortunate enough to have save responsibly.

So many have dreams of retirement , but didn’t responsibly save, didn’t have consistent employment, had personal issue which prevented saving etc. . I felt lucky.

I’m trying to find a place as a docent 2 days a week in the Smithsonians once they reopen and I’ve been vaccinated❄😀😀😀


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

chef2sail said:


> So many have dreams of retirement , but didn't responsibly save, didn't have consistent employment, had personal issue which prevented saving etc. . I felt lucky.


Then some never make it. A fellow I started work with on the same day in 1979 died last year on the job from a heart attack. I walked out years ago he was carried out on a stretcher. So sad to hear those stories.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes Mike I certainly agree😄


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Good news. Took a fresh look at my trailer issues and decided not to sell my boat.

Took her out for the first time in a year today for a shake down, everything ran like new. A lot is new too. New trailer tires, rims and bearings, brand new SS winch, disassembled and thoroughly cleaned carbuerator.

Just went to a local beach for lunch, ice cream and swimming. We are going to take her out for a proper cruise in September (our kids aren't going back to school in the fall). Likely do the Rideau Canal again this year.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Arcb said:


> Good news. Took a fresh look at my trailer issues and decided not to sell my boat.
> 
> Took her out for the first time in a year today for a shake down, everything ran like new. A lot is new too. New trailer tires, rims and bearings, brand new SS winch, disassembled and thoroughly cleaned carbuerator.
> 
> ...


What's better than that
Great picture
Glad your back in business


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

What a sweet boat. Took my boat up to Canada via the Erie and Oswego Canals and across Lake Ontario in 2002. Had the mast boom lashed to the deck it was awkward as it over hung on both ends of the boat. Keep thinking I would love to travel the canals again now that my boat has electric propulsion and without the overhanging mast. Yours is all set up to do such a transit. Glad you are keeping it.



Arcb said:


> Good news. Took a fresh look at my trailer issues and decided not to sell my boat.
> 
> Took her out for the first time in a year today for a shake down, everything ran like new. A lot is new too. New trailer tires, rims and bearings, brand new SS winch, disassembled and thoroughly cleaned carbuerator.
> 
> ...





Arcb said:


> Good news. Took a fresh look at my trailer issues and decided not to sell my boat.
> 
> Took her out for the first time in a year today for a shake down, everything ran like new. A lot is new too. New trailer tires, rims and bearings, brand new SS winch, disassembled and thoroughly cleaned carbuerator.
> 
> ...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

M what’s your draft? How did you like the trip?


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

outbound said:


> M what's your draft? How did you like the trip?


My 30 footer has a draft of 5 feet. Loved the trip though it was hot in July without the bimini up. I think it would be a better trip using the electric propulsion system that is now on my boat rather than running the diesel for hours like I did back then. I'd also just do the canals without the mast and not have to deal with carrying it on deck. Think it would be a great trip in the fall too.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

This may not be directly OT but I don't want to start a new thread.

This sailing season for me has so far been a bust. There are multiple reasons and they are forcing me to re think what I will be doing next season and the years to come.

1. Covid changed everything. I store in-water and was able to move to a mooring without hauling out for bottom work and do all other preparation and comply with social distancing etc. Buying from the marine store was bizarre because no one could actually enter and you place you order on the phone w/CCard and it was delivered to your car in the parking lot. The mooring was installed early enough, but later than I usually start my sailing season. Winter storage ends on 1 May but I didn't leave until 16 May.... more than month later than my usual start. Everything was late at the boat yard in Old Lyme... parking was weird because of unlaunched boats. You couldn't go into the office or chandlery.... and had to wear a mask in the yard and the launch only took 2 people from the same boat at one time. 
When we sailed going ashore we faced the same sort of lockdown "commerce"... no restaurants and so forth. That was surely not as enjoyable. We couldn't visit Newport, for example.

2. Weather seems to have been awful this season. It was the hottest July on record and the winds were usually not too good where we sail from. This made for too much unpleasant motoring... or just hanging on a hot humid boat with little natural ventilation and plenty of flying critters. Weather seemed noticeably worse this season... and we had one weakened hurricane come through with more to come.

3. Medical matters. I am still not recovered from the botched spine surgery which left me with a walking and balance deficit. in 2 years I seem to have aged 10. Added to that my hearing continues to worsen making conversations more difficult and music uninteresting when it was before. Same decline with my eyes. I probably need a new eyeglass prescription but I am aware that I am having more difficulty seeing small things and so doing repairs and so forth is more challenging. I can still see OK but I am aware that my vision is not what it was. Arthritis has arrived and I discovered my knees are almost shot... which contributes to mobility deficit... and difficulty with steps and ladders. I am great at sitting! So I can sail because I am most seated when sailing. I feel I am running on 3 out of 8 cylinders.

4. Care of Sister. I am the health care proxy for my sister who has dementia. I had to move her out of assisted living in late March to an apartment, manage her care and then move her to memory care this past month... all made more complicated and exhausting because of lock down... and prohibited me from being away for very long.

5. Boat is mechanically in good condition but there are renewal and more and more cosmetic things needing attention.... hull topsides cleaning and wax, gel coat repairs, varnish.... inside and some outside... canvas repair/replacement, some running rigging replacement, teak run strake needs attention... perhaps a new anchor and chain. Dink needs a deep cleaning as it get dirty just sitting there. OB needs attention. Fuel filter needs to be changed and a small leak fixed.

In retrospect I probably should have hauled and left the boat on the hard this season and worked on it rather than pay for a mooring and hardly use it because of the above. It would have been close enough to do day trips to work on projects or I could have the yard or sub contractors do things like wax and the bottom. Maybe I should haul now... do those projects and either store on the hard or back in the water for winter store in mid to late November.

Everything seems so complicated now...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

This has been a weird season, however, we’ve figured out how to make lemonaid out if the lemons. Late start for sure. 

Since shore activities were limited, we found we had no schedule to keep this year (mooring reservations) or anyone we needed to meet. Other than our kids, we’ve had no guests, compared to nearly every single weekend, in past years. As a result, we sailed when there was good wind and stayed at anchor or even the slip, when there wasn’t. Honestly, I don‘t think we ever sailed more. We did not make any overnight hops this year, but still did a lot if sailing. Another factor has been working remotely. It’s given us the flexibility to be aboard even more, or be more flexible as to when we’re aboard (ie good weather).

I‘ll take our old lives back in a blink, but this hasn’t been all bad, by a long shot.

I am braced for impact this Fall. I hope I’m wrong, but I worry that cooling temps and schools back in session will naturally drive infection numbers up. Even if not to crazy levels, higher numbers will likely mean higher restrictions. We‘ll likely keep our Nov haul out date, but start decommissioning early, so any forced sprint will be easier to accomplish.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Well, I envy both of you. The pandemic has meant I won't even be able to see my boat until next Spring -- and that's not even certain at this point. My sailing season has been turned into a motorcycle season.

I'm currently in Alberta (having driven across the Prairies), and am heading for Vancouver Island to do a little house sit, and to snoop around on some of the marinas and maybe some properties.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I think it has been a strange season all around for many. But, restrictions have made some decisions easier. The restrictions on restaurants made my usual plans to head to Port Jefferson LI for weekends less desirable. The Tropical Storm pulled enough sail from under the new sai cover and ripped it to make it unusable until repaired. With no where to go and not looking forward to wrestling with 540 square feet of sail myself I decided to have it repaired over the winter. 

Instead since my boat is on a mooring I have made it my own COVID free island where I can swim two or three times a day. I also really enjoy my morning coffee watching the sun rise from the cockpit, Sunsets are nice too. It's a mask free environment where I am not reminded that I am in the high risk category as I am on land. Though with the days getting shorter and the nights getting colder I am aware I will probably not be spending too many more nights on board. But, I'm close enough (20 minutes) that I can still enjoy the days onboard until a watch cap becomes part of my regular wardrobe.

Still the upcoming Fall gives me something to look forward to also. Namely more time at the house organizing and getting rid of stuff that has been accumulated over the years. An ongoing project.  Also working outside becomes pleasant when the heat and humidity of summer are gone. I may forgo bringing my damaged sail to the nearest Sail Loft for repair. Instead plan a trip to one in a more scenic area and make a day trip out of it. Since vacation charters and other trip planing is still not on the horizon Autumn is the only thing to look forward to at this point I will embrace it until something better comes along.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

I have a trailer sailer (WWP15) but I just keep it on a mooring. It makes it so much easier. I would like to try her on a lake instead of the ocean though someday. Maybe after I pull her out for the season if there is a warm enough day. Or before I put in next spring..

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Wet survey, short haul survey and test sail was done yesterday. Need to fix the wesbasto but otherwise good to go. Closing next week. Looking at a small Norhavn and a ultra shoal David Gerr design in the next few days. Still back and forth between blue water power v skinny water. Covid is driving me nuts. My usual protocol of reading about boats then deciding on mission statement then walk throughs then negotiation then survey is now logistical so difficult. FaceTime video calls call just don’t do it. Still a good problem to have. 
you need to envision your future in order to make it happen. That’s true even knowing it’s never what you thought it would be.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I love my Pearson, but I've considered selling her several times, due to multiple factors. I may do it some day. It's a lot of money and effort to keep her going, and even though the sailing season on the Chesapeake is fairly long, it doesn't take too many work deadlines, mechanical issues, family emergencies, or long stretches of hot weather to knock out most of the season. 

Two years ago, I bought a Minicat 420 at the Annapolis Sailboat Show, and increasingly my sailing time is spent on vacations to lakes up north in July and August. Throw the Minicat in the back of the station wagon, and spend the next week exploring a new lake in 70 degree temps away from the sweltering 100 degree days and sea nettles on the Chesapeake.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Looked at the Gerr boat. Very nice design but this particular boat was tired. Had no freezer, AC, nor heat. Sight lines unacceptable to the 4’10” bride. Off the list. But a worthwhile trip. On the way home saw a Nordhavn40. wife was in love. Mechanically spot on due to a recent refit but priced above market. As soon as price gets reasonable will put in an offer. Going down to Annapolis beginning of October. Want to see Kady Krogens. Road trip to Maine was worthwhile as now have clearer mission statement. Loop becomes a maybe and long coastal jumps a definite allowing us to snowbird without using the AICW. If going from sail to power or the other way need to know where you’re going in order to decide how you’re going to get there. Same with RVs. We looked at converted transit vans, class A,B and C. Thought through what it would be like to live with them. Pretty much the same degree of maintenance hassle as a cruising boat and same amount of storage issues for us. Higher depreciation c/w a Norhavn or KK. Less money involved but cost of ownership not hugely different if you compare equal size and comfort. Still, over 5 years a RV requires less money. Biggest thing for us as a couple is we have always woke up to the sight of water and quiet . Keeps us centered. Neither of us wants to give that up. Have never understood loud music or continuous talk when in natures bosom-land or sea .


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Too bad, was rooting for the Gerr, but sight lines are kind of important in a boat like that.

Have you scoped out any power cats?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> Looked at the Gerr boat. Very nice design but this particular boat was tired. Had no freezer, AC, nor heat. Sight lines unacceptable to the 4'10" bride. Off the list. But a worthwhile trip. On the way home saw a Nordhavn40. wife was in love. Mechanically spot on due to a recent refit but priced above market. As soon as price gets reasonable will put in an offer. Going down to Annapolis beginning of October. Want to see Kady Krogens. Road trip to Maine was worthwhile as now have clearer mission statement. Loop becomes a maybe and long coastal jumps a definite allowing us to snowbird without using the AICW. If going from sail to power or the other way need to know where you're going in order to decide how you're going to get there. Same with RVs. We looked at converted transit vans, class A,B and C. Thought through what it would be like to live with them. Pretty much the same degree of maintenance hassle as a cruising boat and same amount of storage issues for us. Higher depreciation c/w a Norhavn or KK. Less money involved but cost of ownership not hugely different if you compare equal size and comfort. Still, over 5 years a RV requires less money. Biggest thing for us as a couple is we have always woke up to the sight of water and quiet . Keeps us centered. Neither of us wants to give that up. Have never understood loud music or continuous talk when in natures bosom-land or sea .


Waking up or going to sleep to calm re boating in a marina is not a sure thing.  Way too much activity in marinas for me to consider that calming and a get away... But this means you'll need to anchor... in a calm quiet anchorage with little traffic.
We are on a mooring in Old Lyme CT this season. What is really undesirable is the constant stream of marine traffic.... from sail and power boats coming and going from their moorings... to the launch going back and forth.. to guys fishing.. people kyaking... and the occasional jet ski. WAY too much activity is this mooring field / anchorage. It's narrow so effectively it's like mooring on a busy thoroughfare. Ironically we were formally in a huge mooring field in NPT... but our mooring was a the perimeter and far out... looking to shore was "undeveloped" and peaceful for the most part... no house lights.. cars headlights.. parties just one old unused historic boat house. All the marine traffic was moving to the center of the harbor where the channel was. Rarely would we experience a wake or were aware of what was going on in the channel or the anchorage as we are in "quaint" OId Lyme... where in addition to boat traffic there is a highly traveled road which hugs the shore which treats us to regular motor cycle and truck noise. This is due to the I95 exit which is maybe 2,000 feet from the marina and mooring field. Many positive here but too many negatives and not a place to just hang on the boat for some peace. Sure finding peace and calm where there are lots of boats is impossible...

You get what you want but you lose what you had.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

See what you started Arcb.









I don't plan to get out of sailing but it seemed that this thread triggered a few members to buy an RV or Switch to a powerboat. We actually hope to use this to spend more time traveling and possibly take our 19' trailerable to the coast.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Yup, Outbound sold his boat and moved on quickly. Hasn’t even signed on for a couple of months. Suspect he’s hung his hat at a trawler forum.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

jephotog said:


> See what you started Arcb.
> View attachment 137972
> 
> 
> I don't plan to get out of sailing but it seemed that this thread triggered a few members to buy an RV or Switch to a powerboat. We actually hope to use this to spend more time traveling and possibly take our 19' trailerable to the coast.


Nice... what did you buy? I'm not familiar enough with RVs to be able to identify from your pic, but it looks like something that attracts me: not to big, but livable.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Nice. I was checking out camper conversion kits for my Grand Caravan in Florida last year. RVs are cool. Van life is cool. Or, I think it is any way.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> Yup, Outbound sold his boat and moved on quickly. Hasn't even signed on for a couple of months. Suspect he's hung his hat at a trawler forum.


Yep and Chef2Sail also bought an RV and stopped hanging out here, both brought on or so it seems by this discussion. Not that I think this caused the migration but it is easy to trigger a reaction in today's climate. Someone planted a seed in me and I flew across the country and drove home with an RV.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

MikeOReilly said:


> Nice... what did you buy? I'm not familiar enough with RVs to be able to identify from your pic, but it looks like something that attracts me: not to big, but livable.





Arcb said:


> Nice. I was checking out camper conversion kits for my Grand Caravan in Florida last year. RVs are cool. Van life is cool. Or, I think it is any way.


I spend a lot of time camping and spend as much time of camping and overlanding forums and working on my truck as much as my boat. Hell even when i am sailing I am also camping. I had been looking at a travel trailer all summer with a budget of $5k +/-. A friend posted a picture of a van for sale which got me thinking and found it was a better fit for us mostly because I am getting too old to sleep in the back of a truck and my wife can't drive my truck (manual) so a van allowed us both to drive and or take it on our own.

After a few weeks of searching for a van and seeing they were so overpriced and some that I liked literally sold in less than 12 hours. I decided on this unit, it is a Born Free "Built for Two" Class C. It was one of 3 well made manufacturers that survived the last economic downturn. The company shut down in 2016 as did one of the other quality builders.

It cost twice as much as every sailboat I have owned combined. At 22.5 feet long a full 6" longer than my truck and still just fits in a normal parking space. It has a huge fridge and a separate freezer full wet bath with indoor and outdoor shower, solar, generator, overhead bunk a drop down dinette and couch, 3 burner stove, convection oven/microwave.

I took the risk and flew to Huntsville AL (all bundled and masked up) inspected it and drove it home in 48 hours. Since I am not skiing until I get vaccinated, I will be planning on heading south for a week or two after the New Year. Our hope is in he spring we can get all 4 of our animals to get along and be able to take them with us while we travel so we can rent our home out for a month at a time, the RV could pay for itself. Also our big boat is on a trailer 3 hours south of us, the shoulder season is a good time to work on the boat or sail but camping out when it is 20 degrees sucks.

Here is a photo of a similar but slightly interior.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Nice. I was checking out camper conversion kits for my Grand Caravan in Florida last year. RVs are cool. Van life is cool. Or, I think it is any way.


Part of my thinking was a van or RV would be a good support vehicle for the Eco Challenge, when i do it. The problem I am having is figuring out getting my kayak on the roof or whether I need a trailer, which would make it unlikely my wife would be comfortable driving it.



MikeOReilly said:


> Nice... what did you buy? I'm not familiar enough with RVs to be able to identify from your pic, but it looks like something that attracts me: not to big, but livable.


You guys being in Canada should look at Great West Vans. Made in Alberta, look to be high quality with an improved insulation over other vans. If they were more plentiful I would likely have ended up with one instead of the RV.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

jephotog said:


> You guys being in Canada should look at Great West Vans. Made in Alberta, look to be high quality with an improved insulation over other vans. If they were more plentiful I would likely have ended up with one instead of the RV.


Thanks for this. I have been looking at camper vans and smaller Class C types. I've even looked at some conversion trailers, and pondered doing that with ours (we own a 14' cargo trailer). The vans do seem over-priced, and hard to find. Whereas there are a lot more Class C types around. But quality seems to be a real issue.

So thanks for the tip on Great West Vans. I'll take a look.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I've really enjoyed reading through this thread again, 4 months later.

My parents bought an RV a few years ago, and for the first four years, they took off for six months a year on a road trip around the country. They loved it. I confess at the time it did not sound like much fun to me, driving a monster trailer up mountain roads and living in lightly wooded parking spots. But during the pandemic I got stir crazy enough during the long hot summer to consider getting a travel trailer and heading north and working from the road for a while. 

So, preferences change with circumstances, I guess. 

Right now, my dream retirement is a NYC apartment (winter) and an Adirondack lake house with a sailboat and canoes (summer). I want to be surrounded by things to do, good medical care for when I'm older, and lots of options for cheap flights to get elsewhere. But I'm 15 years from retirement, plenty of time for preferences to change.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

MikeOReilly said:


> Thanks for this. I have been looking at camper vans and smaller Class C types. I've even looked at some conversion trailers, and pondered doing that with ours (we own a 14' cargo trailer). The vans do seem over-priced, and hard to find. Whereas there are a lot more Class C types around. But quality seems to be a real issue.
> 
> So thanks for the tip on Great West Vans. I'll take a look.


Okanagan is another well made Canadian Van, it is the Canadian version of the Airstream B190. Best years for class Bs are 97 or later as that was when the Ford Chasis matured. For Class Cs pre 2007 are better as the quality dropped during the recession. Born Free, Lazy Days and Coachworks all kept up their quality but only the last manufacturer survived. Good luck in your search feel free to PM me with any questions.


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## Steve Bateman (Aug 10, 2016)

When I can no longer get myself up the mast its time to sell up!


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't understand the question. You sail. You die. Your heirs sell your boat. And The Matrix is just a sci-fi movie.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

midwesterner said:


> I don't understand the question. You sail. You die. Your heirs sell your boat. And The Matrix is just a sci-fi movie.


I almost agree with that. As I said earlier, "For me personally, I usually think that the right time to get out of sailing is when my mourners are back filling my grave site, but only if there isn't a decent wind that day. "


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

As you get older you need to change your sailing "style" to adapt to your loss of physical capabilities. Sailing continues to be enjoyable but probably less "thrilling... But maintenance work becomes increasingly difficult to do. It can be done with competent strong help... or paying others to do what you used to do yourself. This is the stage I am at and without "support" I can't "boat" (verb). Use becomes less frequent for these reasons and it the boat becomes a financial burden with diminishing reward. This has come in the time of covid which further adds to the decisions/problems.


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