# Is that 100k boat really worth 100k?



## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

Hey Gang,

I was having a conversation with the fellow in the slip next to me the other day, and both of us were in agreement on this, and it got me to thinking, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts..

First a bit of context. I have a Columbia 39, which for my needs is fantastic. It does fairly well everything I need it to do, and I paid less than 20k for it. My slip neighbor has an islander 35. While he didn't exactly say what he paid for it, I'm guessing he's in the mid to high 20's on it. Both of us are quite satisfied with what we have, and our sailing experiences with these boats.

Our neighbor across the way has a Benateau 35. My guess is that he's well over 100, probably closer to 150 on what he paid for it. I've only peeked at it a bit, and while it does have a few nicer upgrades than my boat, It's not 100k nicer (in my opinion) than my boat if you catch my drift. 

I freely admit that my Columbia 39 isn't the sexiest looking kid on the block, but (in my opinion) that's hardly worth the extra spend.

So this is my question. At what point, does blowing an extra 75 or 100k on a boat give you 75 or 100k more value? Because in looking at his more modern Benateau, I'm just not seeing it. Perhaps it's my amateurish skill set that don't allow me to see the value in the extra spend of his boat (and admittidly the owner didn't give me a full tour), but some of the more experienced people here can chime in and help me to understand at what price point the value increases exponentially (or if even does at all)?

I ask this, because I have always thought of my Columbia like a first car. It's great, and I'm learning tons on it, but when I move on to my next boat, I want to make sure that the money I spend on it is for the right reasons, and not just because well, it's a Mercedes and they're "supposed" to be expensive (please excuse the car reference, best analogy I could come up at the moment).

Thanks for all of your opinions, they're most appreciated!


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Following, but I do have a few ideas on why the B or any newer boat is more money. Condition, condition and condition. Also newer boats are worth more for the same reason newer cars are worth more than older cars, well for the most part. Newer implies reliability, aesthetics, conveniences, and soundness. Some older boats have moisture issues in the deck core, rigging at the end of life, engine issues, sails bagged out, chain plates corroded, rudders saturated, ect. Yes all those items can be corrected and once corrected the bills will approach the newer boat price.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Skipper Jer said:


> Following, but I do have a few ideas on why the B or any newer boat is more money. Condition, condition and condition. Also newer boats are worth more for the same reason newer cars are worth more than older cars, well for the most part. Newer implies reliability, aesthetics, conveniences, and soundness. Some older boats have moisture issues in the deck core, rigging at the end of life, engine issues, sails bagged out, chain plates corroded, rudders saturated, ect. Yes all those items can be corrected and once corrected the bills will approach the newer boat price.


I would agree, and those are some of the considerations that we discussed when my wife and I made the decision to spend six figures on a much younger boat. The appeal of having a boat that doesn't have a long list of repairs and equipment upgrades needed is pretty strong. The way I see it you may get an old boat for a lot less money, but you will likely be spending a lot more money over the years to keep that boat up. After years of spending thousands of dollars on repairs you still have an old boat. I don't think there is a magic formula that will tell you what age used boat is the sweet spot in terms of initial purchase price vs maintenance and repair costs. I can tell you that it is really nice to have a boat that hasn't been through multiple owners and decades of sketch DIY repairs and upgrades to deal with. I even have complete and accurate electrical and plumbing schematics for the boat!

Aside from the higher maintenance costs and cosmetic wear and tear on an old boat there is the design differences between old boats and newer boats. Boat design has evolved in many ways over the past 40+ years. Modern boats do just about everything better than boats from the 60s and 70s. They are typically faster, easier to sail and much brighter and more spacious inside. The cockpits are larger and more ergonomic.

The difference between the OPs '70s era Columbia 39 and my 2011 39 footer are striking. We have far more living space than the columbia has in the same length. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if his neighbor's Beneteau 35 has more useful space than his 39.

I know a lot of people love their old boats, and many people are loyal to old designs. If that is the case, more power to them.

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## MoonBeamEstate (Jan 1, 2021)

Some people like RVs and some people like tents. Tents are more true to camping, cramped, cold or hot and buggy, been around forever. RVs are not really camping, but they are expensive, ugly in nature, well lite, modern and have all the comforts of home. So they cost more.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Newer boats will have more annual depreciation. Older boats will require more maintenance and upgrades. Pick your poison.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

nothing is "worth: anything till you sell and get the cash then you know

But I would say a boat is at it's sweet "value" point at about 10-15 years old. At that point it has taken its' biggest depreciation hit, is still is great condition, and has standard options installed.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

As soon as something like a boat or a car is owned and used it seem to lose a lot of its value... somewhat irrational at times.

For sure the value should reflect "wear and tear" (somehow). How much wear and tear is there on things like:
winches
spars
standing rigging
sails
upholstery
canvas
hardware
joinery
gelgoat
hatches & ports
wiring
plumbing 
plumbing fixtures pumps
steering
engine
standing rigging
running rigging
ground tackle
electronics

For sure these and other parts are aging and "degrading" in varying degrees. For sure some things simply become "outdated" such as electronics. Surely all things undergo environmental "aging"

Designs don't "age" they simply become no longer fashionable or current... this applies to engineering and aesthetics.

For sure things are losing value at different rates... for multiple reasons.

How is the depreciated value "calculated"? I suspect it isn't really... rule of thumb and mostly what recent sales reveal.

Some say lots of "things" added to a boat don't even figure into the calculus.

++++

Yet we see that some things appreciate over time... such as art, or jewelry or "collectibles"... and this seems to be largely related to scarcity and "artistic value/input"

I suspect that some boats (like autos) have a "collectible" component to their value. Others which are / were more mass produced have no "collectible" element in their value. So it seems that perhaps high sticker priced mass produced boats will see a more rapid depreciation... while more one off boats will depreciate slower and hold their value.... and likely cost more per unit foot than mass produced boats.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I think this is an interesting topic. Since it's winter and I can't sail I can take some time to add my thoughts.

Some background: My current boat is a 2002 C&C 110 (36'). It's nice and meets my needs, but it's not new. I have been looking at other boats, something a little newer, a little faster, and a little nicer. I will have to spend 2-3X what my boat is worth to buy a newer boat that will meet my needs. Is it worth it? Only I can decide that.

In your case "Value" can only be determined by you. Some things that a new(er) boat will have over your boat include
Newer engine with lower hours
Newer sails in better condition
Modern electronics including a below deck autopilot
Furling mainsail and headsail
Furling code 0 or asymmetrical spinnaker
Bow thruster
Windlass 
heat and air conditioning
modern galley with refrigeration and microwave oven
modern inverter
larger interior, nicer head, better condition
swim platform 

And the list goes on and on.

If you WANT those items then the value they add can be huge. If you don't want a furling mainsail then it may have negative value to you but great value to someone who does.

In my own personal view, the sweet spot for a boat is one that is around 10 years old. Compared to a new boat, a 10 year old boat will be significantly less (in my case around 25% the cost of a new one) and will still have a few years of low cost sailing. I bought my 2002 boat in 2013. I didn't spend any serious money on maintenance for a few years. Then I replaced the main sail, and a few years later I replaced the standing rigging, and a few other items. All told my maintenance costs have been much lower than on my previous boat (1986 O'day 35). True, my total cost is much higher, but I am much happier with my C&C. 

Now I'm considering boats from 2013 and newer, 38-42' price around $200K. My wife doesn't want a newer boat. Her point is that the boat we have now is very nice and meets our needs. She is correct and I can't argue with her, but I WANT the newer boat. For now I haven't found anything that I like and that I can afford but spring is on the way.

Thread drift warning: I want a boat that is a really great sailing boat. It must be faster than my C&C (PHRF under 100) but also must be comfortable below and have modern conveniences like below deck pilot, windlass, etc. So far I have seen Dehler 38, and Salona 41. What else is out there? I don't want a boat with a furling headsail. There must be a traveler for the main, preferably end boom sheeting and dual wheels. The new boats from Hanse, Beneteau, etc leave me cold. I can't afford X Boats, J boats, Italia. What about Elan, Dufour (performance model)?

Barry


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> I think this is an interesting topic. Since it's winter and I can't sail I can take some time to add my thoughts.
> 
> ...


Your C&C 110 is a great sailing boat and is more performance oriented than the modern crop of production boats, which tend to lean more towards ease of sailing and creature comforts. According to PHRF the handicap for my boat is sub 100, but I have my doubts that I would be able to race to that rating. The cockpit in my boat leans heavily towards short handed cruising with a permanent cockpit table and primary winches at the helm station. Even the performance version of my boat has the traveler on the cabintop, which wasn't the case 1 generation earlier where the Sunfast model had the traveler in the cockpit.

Unfortunately the more performance oriented boats tend to be the more expensive builders. I was on board a friend's XP44 which is a fantastic performance boat with great amenities, but you pay a premium for that.

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## Killick (Feb 27, 2014)

How much money have you put into your Columbia in addition to the original sales price? "All boats cost the same" usually winds up being true in most cases. That being said, for a lot of people they don't have the purchase price in cash plus money for necessary refit just laying in their bank account. What they have is decent credit and enough for a downpayment. So they go get the $100K boat that they can "afford" instead of the $30K boat that they actually can't.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Killick said:


> How much money have you put into your Columbia in addition to the original sales price? "All boats cost the same" usually winds up being true in most cases. That being said, for a lot of people they don't have the purchase price in cash plus money for necessary refit just laying in their bank account. What they have is decent credit and enough for a downpayment. So they go get the $100K boat that they can "afford" instead of the $30K boat that they actually can't.


My old boat neighbor has an old Niagara 32 that he has been fixing up and refitting for years. Most of it was DIY but he also had a professional paint job, professional mast overhaul etc. Who knows how much money he sunk into it, but for him it was a labour of love. He is rightfully proud of the work he and his wife did, and now they are ready to retire and their boat is set up just the way they want it.

The value of any boat must be measured in more than just money. Spend what you can afford to live the boating lifestyle you want.

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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

Killick said:


> How much money have you put into your Columbia in addition to the original sales price? "All boats cost the same" usually winds up being true in most cases. That being said, for a lot of people they don't have the purchase price in cash plus money for necessary refit just laying in their bank account. What they have is decent credit and enough for a downpayment. So they go get the $100K boat that they can "afford" instead of the $30K boat that they actually can't.


She was in good shape when I purchased her, and I have not had to sink very much into her since, maybe 5k or so. Next major repair is going to be new bottom paint.. but that's reg maintenance on any boat, old or not.

A lot of great points made on this discussion, so I'm glad to hear about different perspectives from owners of different price points.

I do see a little bit of a common theme though, that while there is no real sweet spot due to all of the variables involved, somewhere around the 10-15 year old mark though seems like a good value / price combination.

I'm also really glad that I didn't start an "old vs new" debate because that was not my intention. So I really do appreciate the insight and the perspectives.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

The $100k boat is worth $100k if someone is willing to pay for it. Period. 

For me, the things you would get on a $100k boat (presumably newer), just aren't worth the price of admission.


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## DanM1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Two different ways of looking at it, at least for this discussion. One, I remember when I was looking into buying back in the 70s someone suggested that a sailboat cost about $4 a pound. It actually tracked with many new boat prices at the time. Don't know what the updated current value per pound would be.
Second, there is a pretty good theory that the way to maximize value on a house is to buy new and sell after nine or ten years, before capital replacement (hvac systems, water heaters, new kitchens, bathrooms, etc) is required; or buy at 10 to fifteen years after a chunk of that is recently done by the seller. Same probably applies to a boat. In either case, the value is in new systems as much as actual age of the boat or structure.


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## flee27 (Jan 16, 2018)

I think it is a horses for courses question. I purchased an older boat (1987) that had good bones in my opinion. A good bit of deferred maintenance items but nothing major. My dock neighbor said to me the other day, "you need to learn to enjoy your boat more" as I was working away on mine and he was sitting on his drinking a cold drink. His boat was delivered new this summer. My truthful reply was I am enjoying my boat. I enjoy fixing the things that to me need to be done to keep/bring the boat up to my standards. I like tinkering on my boat as much as I enjoy sailing it. So for me the work normally isn't frustrating or a chore, it is rewarding. For him it would be work. I also think the older boats have more character and charm. At least until you get into spending what is to me crazy money that I don't and probably won't ever have.

On the dollar side of things I can keep my boat up and most likely recoup most of my "investment". The new one will definitely never be worth more money than the day he paid for it. So for me the value is in the older boat.

If you love and enjoy your boat than your boat is a good value. Hopefully we all smile a little as we look back at her while walking away.

Foster


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

flee27 said:


> I think it is a horses for courses question. I purchased an older boat (1987) that had good bones in my opinion. A good bit of deferred maintenance items but nothing major. My dock neighbor said to me the other day, "you need to learn to enjoy your boat more" as I was working away on mine and he was sitting on his drinking a cold drink. His boat was delivered new this summer. My truthful reply was I am enjoying my boat. I enjoy fixing the things that to me need to be done to keep/bring the boat up to my standards. I like tinkering on my boat as much as I enjoy sailing it. So for me the work normally isn't frustrating or a chore, it is rewarding. For him it would be work. I also think the older boats have more character and charm. At least until you get into spending what is to me crazy money that I don't and probably won't ever have.
> 
> On the dollar side of things I can keep my boat up and most likely recoup most of my "investment". The new one will definitely never be worth more money than the day he paid for it. So for me the value is in the older boat.
> 
> ...


I agree in that I enjoy going down to the boat and tinkering and I did plenty of that on my old 1979 Santana, although replacing the entire head system wasn't a pleasant job. It was satisfying once the job was complete but I would rather not repeat it!

What I didn't enjoy was dealing with old engine issues in the middle of family holidays, which seemed to happen with increasing frequency. It was becoming more and more labour intensive to maintain that old raw water cooled engine. It never let us down, but I did develop a nervous habit of constantly checking engine temp when motoring!

There were many things we would have liked to have on that boat, but we could not justify sinking a lot of money into the old girl. A re-power would have cost as much as the boat was worth. We felt it better to save that money and put it towards our next boat.

Now with my newer boat I still enjoy going down and tinkering, except now it is about customizing and adding equipment, not repairing and replacing worn out systems. I can do what I WANT to do, not what I HAVE to do! Even engine maintenance is a breeze. I have easy access to all sides of the engine. I no longer have to empty out a lazarette, climb down inside and contort myself into unnatural positions to change the water pump impeller!

And there is more time to just hang out on the dock, drink beer, and socialize under the guise of "working on the boat"! It is my floating man-cave!

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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

loxxsail said:


> So this is my question. At what point, does blowing an extra 75 or 100k on a boat give you 75 or 100k more value?


Answer to the topic question - NO
Answer to the quoted question - Value, like beauty, is always in the eye of the beholder.

Here is a better question (probably originally stated by a jet-skier), why would you spend any money on a sailboat?

To those of us that love our boats, new or old, the boat just spoke to me, and I had to have it. Sometimes it is to the point no amount of money is too much to obtain her, or to maintain her. Sadly this usually, invests US into our boats, which is why sales prices are all over the place for a particular model. Honestly, the price of a boat (or car, or anything) is only that which some other dummy is willing to pay for it. Thanks to a "persistence of vision" we tend to stop seeing problems over time that are staring us in the face, which are easily overlooked by us, and the first thing seen by a potential buyer. Translate, what is a non-issue to us, may be a show-stopper for them.

Is it worth X? probably not. Certainly not if you have to ask the question.


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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

SHNOOL said:


> Answer to the topic question - NO
> Answer to the quoted question - Value, like beauty, is always in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> Here is a better question (probably originally stated by a jet-skier), why would you spend any money on a sailboat?
> ...


...As a former jet-ski owner, I might make the reverse statement... why would you spend any money on jetski? They're expensive maintenance nightmares (depending on the model) that one usually gets far more enjoyment out of renting / using / borrowing someone else's than having their own. (Now watch all the jetski owners come out of the woodwork on here with their pitch forks and torches =D )...

But I totally get what your saying.. people fall in love with a thing..boat, car, airplane, whatever, and for them any amount of money is just fine while their chasing their dream....to them, it's priceless.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It's funny because I see so many expensive cars driving around. Teslas are everywhere these days. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes they are EVERYWHERE. Many of those cars cost more than my boat. I like cars, but I couldn't bring myself to spend 100k or more on one. I see a a Lamborghini or a Ferrari and I think "Nice car...but think of the BOAT I could have for that money!"

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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

SchockT said:


> It's funny because I see so many expensive cars driving around. Teslas are everywhere these days. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes they are EVERYWHERE. Many of those cars cost more than my boat. I like cars, but I couldn't bring myself to spend 100k or more on one. I see a a Lamborghini or a Ferrari and I think "Nice car...but think of the BOAT I could have for that money!"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


Buying a car is easy peasy...low down payment and credit... affordable monthly payments....


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

SanderO said:


> Buying a car is easy peasy...low down payment and credit... affordable monthly payments....


Buying a boat is easy too. If you've got the credit to buy a tesla or a BMW you've got the credit to buy a boat. You can amortize a boat over a longer term than you can a car, and boats do seem to hold their value better than cars do.

We have a nice boat, but our cars are a 20 year old Volvo and an 8 year old Subaru!

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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I don't see the price of the boat as very important. It's the annual depreciation that is. If you buy a quality $75k 10 year old boat, use it for 5 years and then sell it for $60k, it cost you $3000 a year. A older $35k boat that sells for $20k 5 years later costs the same per year to own. I would rather have owned the first boat.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

What's your enjoyment factor? 

If you own a $20,000 boat and you get the fun of someone who has paid $1million isn't your boat worth $1 million? I think so. 
My mate bought a $15,000 motor boat, his first boat, and now he, his wife and 2 kids are out each weekend in a new life living it up like millionaires. 

In another context, my boat is worth $100k buts it's not... It's my home, it's my life. If it sinks I buy another $100k boat, no problem. If we are scared to scratch the boat we have over-invested. 
We need the comfort of the Fun Zone being more important than the dollars.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> What's your enjoyment factor?
> 
> If you own a $20,000 boat and you get the fun of someone who has paid $1million isn't your boat worth $1 million? I think so.
> My mate bought a $15,000 motor boat, his first boat, and now he, his wife and 2 kids are out each weekend in a new life living it up like millionaires.
> ...


Agreed. For us the investment has been worth while. Our old boat was enjoyable. It was a fun but sometimes challenging boat to sail, and it had very basic amenities which were all we needed as a small family. It was like camping in a small van or trailer.

After upgrading to a much larger and much more expensive boat it is a whole new world for us. We can travel much farther much faster and stay away much longer than we could previously. Where we used to put a tarp on the boat in the late fall and take it off in spring, now the boat is ready to go all year round. We get away on her at least once every month of the year even if just over night.

We see it as being like waterfront cottage with changeable scenery and locations. A home away from home.

I disagree with the idea that if you are afraid to scratch it you over-invested. Pride of ownership dictates that we keep our boat in the best condition possible, be it cosmetically or mechanically. That was my philosophy for our last boat as well, not to mention our houses. I will do whatever I can to prevent unnecessary damage to our boat!

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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Sander - buying an NEW boat is actually pretty easy to do too. Low payments, now interest, and honestly better depreciation than any motorboat or car.
I've played the new versus used game, and considered the $300-$400 a month payment versus endless repairs. A couple boats have had me wondering. Honestly the funny part is, the more expensive the boat the easier it is to finance, lower the rates, and longer the payments!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Well it is an interesting question of perspective. We like our boat, a lot. She is not what most people would want, but suits us well. 

She is a 1987 steel cutter. If I were to sell her I would be lucky to get $100k, not the kind of boat folks are seeking.

Last spring I looked around at newer (2000 or newer) comparable boats (44’ish center cockpit cutter with inline double aft) and they were pretty much $300k and up. So in one sense our boat is worth $300k because that is what it would cost to replace her, minimum.

Now if I wanted to buy a brand new custom steel or aluminum hullsimilar boat I am looking at a custom or at least semi-custom build, which would be upwards of a million.

So after rolling this around in our heads for a bit we decided to do some upgrades and maintenance because we will not be changing boats anytime soon. It pays for us to be more comfortable with the boat we have.

It is a perspective game. And each ones perspective is different. For us she is our home as much as our boat, perhaps more. And she fills those attributes well.


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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

JimsCAL said:


> I don't see the price of the boat as very important. It's the annual depreciation that is. If you buy a quality $75k 10 year old boat, use it for 5 years and then sell it for $60k, it cost you $3000 a year. A older $35k boat that sells for $20k 5 years later costs the same per year to own. I would rather have owned the first boat.


It should be a factor, unless you've inherited a vast family fortune or are otherwise ridiculously wealthy and have tons of disposable income, because in your example you'd pick the 1st boat ( the more expensive one) however you haven't established why the 1st boat would provide more value/enjoyment than the second boat in your example.

Sure the 1st boat could possibly have more bells and whistles, but both will sail just fine (assuming both are reasonably maintained), so whether or not the first boat provides 50k more value (each time they take it out) to the person sailing it, I suppose is subjective.

Btw, I'm neither for nor against expensive / inexpensive boats. All have their place. I'm just doing a bit of soul searching I suppose on what's most important to me.. price or creature comforts. I often flip back n forth on the matter.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

loxxsail said:


> It should be a factor, unless you've inherited a vast family fortune or are otherwise ridiculously wealthy and have tons of disposable income, because in your example you'd pick the 1st boat ( the more expensive one) however you haven't established why the 1st boat would provide more value/enjoyment than the second boat in your example.
> 
> Sure the 1st boat could possibly have more bells and whistles, but both will sail just fine (assuming both are reasonably maintained), so whether or not the first boat provides 50k more value (each time they take it out) to the person sailing it, I suppose is subjective.
> 
> Btw, I'm neither for nor against expensive / inexpensive boats. All have their place. I'm just doing a bit of soul searching I suppose on what's most important to me.. price or creature comforts. I often flip back n forth on the matter.


Of course whether you can afford it or not needs to be considered. You would have to be a fool to spend more than you can afford. The people that inherited family fortunes or are ridiculously wealthy are the ones buying brand new boats. The 100k boat you are talking about has long since been cast off by that segment of boat buyer! Their cast-offs are the dream boats of the middle class boat buyer such as ourselves.

Assuming one can afford to upgrade to a bigger, more comfortable boat the decision process is very much the same as buying a nicer car, going on an expensive vacation or any other luxury purchase.

I know a lot of people who fly to vacation destinations a couple of times a year, (or at least they used to!) I am sure they spend far more money in a year in airfares and accommodation than we do on our boat. There are people who get a new car every 5 years. To them it is just a monthly payment. It fits into their budget, so why NOT get a shiny new car when the lease runs up?

From a strictly financial standpoint none of those expenditures are wise financial investments. What they are is investments in lifestyle and quality of life.

If you truly believe that moving from a 45 year old boat to a 10 year old boat wouldn't be an improvement then the decision is easy. Stick with what you've got.

In our case the upgrade has been a huge improvement in every way you can imagine ...except the cost!

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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

You sir, are correct. I had a few glasses of wine when I wrote a response the other night, so I'm sure most of what I said was obvious / common sense. I meant no offense. 

"A lot" of people live within their means. They own / acquire whatever they can afford, that fits their lifestyle / budget, as it should be. 

I'm happy with what I have for now, and when the time is right I'll upgrade to something else, and I'm sure whatever I pay for it, will be worth it to me.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I lived this thread in my head until the right boat came along, then the decision made itself. I had a 1968 Cal 2-30 for ten years, most of which I spent restoring. I did the math on how much I would have to spend to keep my boat on the upswing. I came up with $5k for this year because new rigging is something I can't do myself (the rest of the stuff I can). Then next year I have to start re-doing some of the things I did 10 years ago. It's a lather, rinse, repeat that I'm simply not interested in doing. When the price of restoration comes out to what a payment on a newer boat would be, then I have to consider the input of my better half, who enjoys spending time on the boat and it's her money, too. 
So, I moved up just last week and my only question now is "What the hell took so long?"


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

rbrasi said:


> I lived this thread in my head until the right boat came along, then the decision made itself. I had a 1968 Cal 2-30 for ten years, most of which I spent restoring. I did the math on how much I would have to spend to keep my boat on the upswing. I came up with $5k for this year because new rigging is something I can't do myself (the rest of the stuff I can). Then next year I have to start re-doing some of the things I did 10 years ago. It's a lather, rinse, repeat that I'm simply not interested in doing. When the price of restoration comes out to what a payment on a newer boat would be, then I have to consider the input of my better half, who enjoys spending time on the boat and it's her money, too.
> So, I moved up just last week and my only question now is "What the hell took so long?"


And you chose a fantastic boat too! The difference is even more noticeable when you go up in size as well as age. Your new boat must feel massive compared to your old one. I know ours did, going from 30 to 39!

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## mickeyrouse (Oct 10, 2000)

The real estate world subscribes to the “ greater fool” theory of value. In other words, I know I paid a lot, but if I can find a greater fool......
I think trying to value one kind of boat versus another is kind of a fool’s errand. Is the price of a boat equal to what YOU are willing to pay if you’re the buyer, and what someone else is willing to spend if the shoe is on the other foot. In the final analysis very few of us actually have to have a boat. So that’s kinda like comparing a Ferrari Testa Ross’s to a ‘55 Chevy. They’re both transportation. But that Ferrari has so many things a Chevy would never have: mystique, heritage, lineage, performance, aesthetics, on and on. So if you need transportation, that Chevy will probably be just as reliable, far cheaper to maintain, and will turn far fewer heads.
So that Columbia ( I sailed one for 13 years) is going to be more or less reliable and safe, and the sailing experience is not one bit diluted. But it’s not euro-styled, systems may be severely dated, sails a little blown, it’s a “ classic” ( meaning Columbia/Whittaker is long-gone) whereas Beneteau is at current boat shows. There are so many more intangibles. Some value those intangibles highly, some not a whit.


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## Sailing Nemo (Nov 21, 2020)

loxxsail said:


> Hey Gang,
> 
> I was having a conversation with the fellow in the slip next to me the other day, and both of us were in agreement on this, and it got me to thinking, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts..
> 
> ...


The car analogy is appropriate and I only bought a new car once and never did again, let others take the new car hit. I was always proud that you could buy maybe 5 of a car I might buy for, say, the cost of a new Land Cruiser. Granted, the land cruiser might be safer than a car I might buy, bigger, heavier, but I also have not had a ticket for 40 years either. To each his own. many different brands of boats are made in the same buildings in Taiwan, often right next to each other by the same men with different specs. Delivery captains will tell you that often they will have several pages of sometimes serious repairs that will be needed upon arrival at destination Regardless of brand or cost. Paying thousands doesn't mean that problems will not reveal themselves! Buying used with proper inspections can save thousands and give years of exploring the same places that a new boat will. I have met many people that will spend $6k on new cockpit cushions and forgo needed rig repairs. It has been quite shocking to me how many people, with no experience at all, buy multi thousand dollar boats and then cross oceans. "If a teenager can do it, so can I, and with my young family"! As to your question....... whatever.....it is worth what someone is willing to spend to buy it. Dock ornaments are important to some, others not so much. Lots of dock ornaments never leave the dock or the nearby bay! The important thing is that the rig and all gear are safe for you and others. 
My wife bought a new dinghy for $6000 once at a boat show. I objected so we never picked it up. I found the same dinghy on craigs list, a year old, with an engine, for a song. Sold the old dinghy we had and the engine that came with the new rig. Ended up with our old, almost new engine, a one year old dinghy in new condition and made $500!
A friend recently sold a boat they bought sight unseen two years ago. Sailed it from Florida to San Diego and all islands and countries in between and sold it for more than they bought it for. Almost never happens.
To each his or her own. It's not what you do it's how you do it. 
Best Karma,
S/Y Nautilus 
San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

This is an interesting question that has a lot of perceptive answers. And perception is everything. 

We had a 1984 Endeavour 40' CC for about 7 years. We took care of it, but did not perform any major refit other than having the bottom skimmed and redone with a new layer of fiberglass, new barrier coat, new bottom paint after finding the very thin bottom after purchase (37 layers of paint hid the 10's of thousands of tiny bubbles). We were new to the game then. We babied the engine, it had an unknown number of engine hours but it purred otherwise. Over the years of ownership we sailed and sailed, up and down, around the Bay. During those years we realized that to be the boat we wanted it to be the engine would need a rebuild, no a replacement, too late for a rebuild. She needs de-masting and new rigging. The electrical system was an 80's and beyond hodge-podge with many problems from previous owners. We both work full time jobs that do not involve leaving us time during the week to go work on a boat. The weekends were dedicated to me making sure my daughter (from another) got as best a childhood possible, or sailing. I'm not a mechanic, or HVAC tech, or an electrician, but I wanted to play one on TV so I started learning as much as I could. Meanwhile a real diesel mechanic kept the motor going as things started breaking on the engine and we did the maintenance in regards to filters, oil changes, bleeding the fuel lines, etc. 

Fast forward a bit to more recent and then we realized that for it to be what we wanted, it needed to be hauled out and worked on for a season to to a major refit. Or... we sell and buy another boat that we thought had things we want, or more easily install the things we want with a better canvas so to speak. The purchase of the current vessel 20 years newer provided that option. The 2004 vessel has newer design concepts, sails better, faster, and we could get that shiny new electronics array and install it ourselves after purchase. Decent sails, slightly torn genoa, well we can get a new one of those made and a new main in a few years too. We work hard and pool our resources to do those things and like many have said, couldn't care less about our vehicles other than that they are pretty dependable because of those jobs. 

One day we hope to cross paths with some of the awesome people who I see posting on the forums, and avoid the salty ones of course.


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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

...So what was the newer vessel you upgraded to? Inquiring minds want to know..


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

loxxsail said:


> ...So what was the newer vessel you upgraded to? Inquiring minds want to know..


A 2004 Catalina 47 is in his profile...

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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

SchockT said:


> A 2004 Catalina 47 is in his profile...


Nice looking boat in the pic.


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

loxxsail said:


> ...So what was the newer vessel you upgraded to? Inquiring minds want to know..


Hi Loxxsail, yes, the new (to us) boat is the 2004 Catalina 470 pictured in my profile. Sorry for the delay!


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Nice looking boat in the pic.


Thank you!


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## loxxsail (Jun 23, 2018)

GlanRock said:


> Hi Loxxsail, yes, the new (to us) boat is the 2004 Catalina 470 pictured in my profile. Sorry for the delay!


Silly me, I could have just looked at your profile and figured that out huh? But thanks for sharing, it is a great looking boat.


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

loxxsail said:


> Silly me, I could have just looked at your profile and figured that out huh? But thanks for sharing, it is a great looking boat.


Thanks very much! We are super excited by the prospects of joining the growing group of people out there living the cruiser lifestyle if we can. To answer your original question though, we found a great many things offered by paying larger outlay in the beginning. However the flip side, we are able to do so but have to live with it too. Meaning we have to keep working those full time jobs which take up so much time. Since I have a child in college, I am not able to retire anyway, but 4-5 years from now we will be actively seeking retirement or a pull-back from full time or even finding ways to work remotely. By any means we can!


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