# Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?



## awatson (Apr 15, 2002)

We need to hear opinions on what would be a good "compromise" boat for weekending in coastal Maine. Doesn''t have to be a bullet, but needs to be able to get out of it''s own way. Doesn''t need luxury, but needs to sleep 2 in relative comfort. (Sleeping 4 uncomfortably would be a plus). Would prefer something that has an outboard, don''t want to deal with inboard propulsion quite yet. This would be a first boat for people who have done a good deal of one-design racing and powerboating, and thus, have some experience - not complete newbies.
Thanks for any insight.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Look for a Pearson. They''re out of production now, but, they''re overbuilt and should meet your needs. We bought a 1976 28'' last year and love it. Especially as "First Boat".


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Have you considered the McGregor 26''? 
They are easy to trailer, easy to set up for sailing and a pretty good weekend coastal cruiser. 

A decent used boat and trailer might cost no more than 5k or so.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

It would help narrow the possibilities if you''d state your budget. Being another Pearson owner, I think Mclion is giving sound advice. (He also is the proud owner of a tube of Dow Corning High Vacuum grease, so watch out for him.) 

Check out a Pearson 26, or a Triton or Renegade in addition to the 28 (of which Pearson built three different models through the years) that he mentioned. I own a P-27, which was introduced in 1987, so most of them have inboard diesels.

Give the good folks here a price range to think about and you''ll get better answers. There are all kinds of boats in this size range -- Catalina 25, Cal 25, O''Day''s, Quickstep 24 even.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree, and out of the three Pearsons mentioned, I personally would favor the Renegade at 27 feet.
Would you care to hear more info on her?
The Quickstep is a very pretty boat.

Dennis


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## awatson (Apr 15, 2002)

Thanks for the repsonses. I agree that the Quickstep is a real pretty boat. I''d never heard of them before. Our price limit is $12,000 for boat, decent sails, basic equipment, reliable outboard, etc. It won''t matter whether it comes as a package or has to be "assembled". What about Cape Dory? Would that be an option? How do the reputations of builders like Pearson, O''Day, Catalina, CAL, Quickstep compare? We wouldn''t want a boat whose manufacturer has anything less than an excellent reputation. (Think "Boston Whaler" in the powerboat world...)
Thanks again.
Andy


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

There are a lot of options here. It would be helpful if you mentioned a budget but focusing on the "needs to be able to get out of it''s own way" and "people who have done a good deal of one-design racing" I suspect you are probably looking for something faster and more modern than a Pearson Rebel. 

Beneteau First 235,
These are really neat little daysailor overnighters. They came in a number of versions including a fixed fin keel, swing keel and shoal draft fixed keel with twin rudders. Very nicely detailed boats that sail quite well. 

Capri 25: These are not the best built boats in the world but they sail very well and can often be purchased quite cheaply.

J-22: I''m bound to get pounded on this one but the early ones had a nice sized vee berth and small head and galley unit as an option. These are more daysailors than weekenders but they are a lot of fun to sail. 

J-24''s are common as dirt and can be found quite inexpensively in non-racing condition. 

Kirby 25,
I had one of these and really liked it. Pretty spartan down below but fun for a couple to spend weekends on. You need to find one with a head in the forward compartment and both of the galley modules (sink and stove tables) which is actually pretty rare but easy to build. 

Pearson 26 and Pearson 26 one design. Reasonably good sailing boats near the bottom end of what I would consider "get out of it''s own way" territory. 

Ranger 23:
I have always had a soft spot in my heart for these boats. They sail well and had decent accomodations for a boat this size. I always figured that if short of cash, and had to own a boat in the worst way, I would probably buy one of these. In fact even if I wasn''t short of cash just wanted a small simple mess about I''d probably look for one of these. 

Santana 23 
Neat little dagger board boats. They offer excellent sailing ability and the ability to trailer. Usually they are quite cheaply priced. Here''s a reputedly nice one. http://trailersailor.com/forums/classifieds/index.cgi?read=13589

Santana 525:
See my comments on the Kirby 25.

S2 7.9
Nicely rounded little designs built in a range of options from out and out racer to nice little weakender version. Available with fixed fin keel or a daggerboard. 

Wylie Wabbit. 
Ok so its not the most comfortable boat but what a neat little daysailor overnighter.

Lunchtime is over but that should get you started.

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jeff,
I''m not trying to start anything here(thats in the "ketch rig" section) but I''m curious. When it is said "get out of it''s own way", How much difference in speed and performance are we talking about?

Dennis


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

From where I sit I think that difference between a slow boat and one that can "get out of it''s own way" obviously depends on the size of the boat, but for two approximately equal length boats, I would say that the difference between the two would be PHRF rating difference somewhere between 30 and 90 seconds a mile with 40 to 50 seconds being very significant in the way boat feels to sail or the distance run in a typical day. 

Before you sit there, do the math, and conclude that at 40 seconds a mile after a 20 mile sail that means the faster boat is only 13 or so minutes faster, I want to explain why a 30 to 90 seconds a mile is significantly faster than that in real sailing conditions. 

The PHRF is calculated at the average prevailing windspeed for a given region. This is typically around 10 to 12 or so knots of wind. At that windspeed there is far less difference in speed between a lighter faster boat than a more traditional design. Both are moving pretty close to hull speed and the light boat doesn''t have the break away speed that typically happens in higher wind ranges. But in windspeeds somewhat below or above this average windspeed the faster boat will often have a major speed advantage. 

(For example, there was a Cape Dory 28 in the same class as my Laser 28. The CD was well prepared and seemed to be exceptionally well sailed. The Laser 28 owed the CD 28 about 84 seconds a mile. In moderate winds, I might only beat them by as little as 10 seconds a mile over my rating (i.e. 94 seconds a mile). In lighter air (0-5 knots), I typically beat them by as 20 to 40 minutes a mile over my rating. In heavier conditions, I typically beat them by as much as 1 to 2 minutes a mile over my rating. 

In cruising with the CD28, that meant that typically sailed to where ever we were rafting up and they typcially motored a substantial portion of the way and still got in after us.)

My recollections of sailing in Maine was that the conditions were very changeable from extremely light to quite breezy, with little in between, and the currents were quite brisk. A 40 to 60 second a mile difference in speed would often make the difference between being able to sail through one of these high current areas and making it through into areas with slower currents versus not being able to buck the tide, meaning either motoring through, or else hours of sailing barely stemming the flow or not stemming the flow at all, or, where posible, sailing a greater distance to avoid the worst currents. 

Beyond all of that, the original post indicted that ''awatson'' had done a good deal of one-design racing and powerboating. That suggests that awatson might be a fellow believer that ''fast is fun''. If ''fast is fun'' is a priority in life, then sailing a boat like the Renegade (phrf 256-254)just would not be as much fun as some of these boats that rate down in the PHRF 171 to 200 range. 

Regards
Jeff


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## awatson (Apr 15, 2002)

Thanks for the good info Jeff, very helpful. When I mentioned that the boat has to "be able to get out of it''s own way", that''s all I meant - take it at face value. I consider a "compromise boat" as one that falls somewhere in the middle of the trade-off between speed and comfort. If speed were that much of a concern, we''d be looking at powerboats!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jeff,
Yes, I agree with awatson; alot of good info.
I''ve always sailed heavier boats so I''m not to up on that kind of info, and, sadly for me, I''ve never bothered to learn.
It''s good stuff to know.

Dennis


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## cfischerieeeorg (Jul 17, 2001)

I have a boat for sale that meets many of 
your requirements. Sleeping 4 wouldn''t be
a probably. Having space for everything
4 people would bring on a weekend trip 
would be a problem. Outboard. Not a fast
boat, but I have raced it (2 flags -2nd and 
3rd).

It an O''Day 25. Not a great boat, but a 
good boat. 

http://home.rochester.rr.com/cfischer/oday.htm


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## lapointe (Oct 15, 2001)

Born and raised in New England and done some sailing on and like the Odays and Pearsons. Currently own a Wathins 23. Not as fast as the Odays or Pearsons, but built like a tank, and tend to be a bit roomier for their size with nice appointments below. Also swing keel for getting in close to shore and easy trailering. The Watkins 25s and 27s offer a lot of room. Boat really comes into it''s own in moderate to strong winds. Designed and built to be a coastal cruiser and not a combo racer/cruiser or cruiser/racer. See if you can get invited for a test sail on some Pearsons, Odays, Watkins, etc. Not as hard as it sounds, as active owners are always happy to show off their boats. You''d want to test drive a car before you buy it!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I used to have a Pearson 26 in Maine. I kept her in Tenants Harbor and cruised the area with a family of four, the kids were early teens, and a large dog. It was a nice boat for that and the purchase was inexpensive. I added a spinnaker and a loran, pre GPS days! I understand its for sale now, still in the tenants harbor area, cheap. The owner has a small trawler now. let me know if you''re interested and I can give you directions to the owners house.

regards
Dave


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I also sail a 25'' O''Day and have also been very pleased. Handles well, decent speed, affordable, trailers well behind 3/4 pick-up. Recent single-hand around DelMarVa peninsula (8 day trip). Be happy to answer any specific questions.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Another great boat to look at would be a Seafarer. You could pick up a 23 or a 26 footer in your price range in excellent condition. These sleep four pretty easy, but gear for four adults might be a bit tough. They were made some with deisel and some with outboards.
These boats have excellent manners under sail. They are stable and very solidly built.
Jeff mentioned the Ranger 23 as a personal favorite. The Seafarer and the Ranger are close cousins, not unlike Pontiac and Oldsmobile. They are both McCurdy and Rhodes designs. I had mine for a number a years and loved every moment of it.

Good Luck
Dirt


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Ranger 23 and the Seafarer 23 are extremely different boats. The Ranger 23 is a Gary Mull design that benefits the fact that Gary Mull was one of the most tallented designers of that era and from his involvement in some of the best funded Grand Prix racing efforts of that day. 

The Seafarer 23 was a McCurdy and Rhodes design and was not a very good design by any stretch of the imagination.

While the Ranger of that era were not exactly paragons of build quality, having worked on both boats, the Seafarers really lacked the build quality of a Ranger. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Haven''t seen anyone mention a Grampian?
Heavy, well built, comfortable, inexpensive, and fun to sail!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

With regards to your questions about Grampians the answer very much depends on the model. The Grampian Classic 22 and the Grampian Classic 31''s were very nice boats. The Classic 22 was a very nice, light weight daysailor/overnighter designed by C&C. I actually owned one and really thought these were fun boats to sail. They were reasonably well built and fairly inexpensive but not particularly "heavy or comfortable". The Classic 31''s were heavier more traditional VanDyne designs and were also very nice boats. They come up for sail at pretty reasonable prices from time to time. 

At some point in the late 1960''s Grampian totally retooled its line coming out with the Grampian 23, 26 and 30. These were not very good boats and I would say that with the posible exception of being inexpensive they would not meet any of your desired criteria,"Heavy, well built, comfortable, inexpensive, and fun to sail". They were pretty much value oriented boats with mediocre designs and pretty shoddy workmanship. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Beneteau 235 might be a nice little boat for you to look into. Fast, but with a nice layout below for overnighting. (Some layouts can sleep 4 uncomfortably - hah!) Should be decent in the price range, too. Even the fixed keel can be easily trailered to different destinations.

Good luck,
MaryBeth


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## halyardz (Sep 2, 2000)

I owned a Bene 235 and was relatively happy with it for about two years. Its reasonably well built, but holding market price fairly well, so a bargain may be hard to find. The
outboard was a real PITA in anything but moderate wave conditions. It was also hard to leave the helm unattended for any longer than 40 seconds. Better than a Cata 22 but I''d suggest moving up to at least 26 ft. You will be a much happier weekend camper.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Catalina 22 is a great starting boat!! (got a 1990 model for sail...loaded...only $6k).

Jamie


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

As an observer but not yet a contributor on this forum I have been greatly appreciative of the insights Jeff has provided on virtually everything that has ever sailed!

My question: HOw would you rate my 1978 Paceship PY-26 against the recommended boats you have described here? I bought it a year ago as a "first boat" and have been pretty much pleased with it. It''s not the fastest, but it''s forgiving and has been a good learning experience.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Thank you for the kind words. I like the Paceship PY26. They sail well for that era and have reasonably good construction. No bad habits that I know of. The rudder is a little vulnerable to problems over time because of their construction. I am morefamiliar with the keel model then the swing keel model but seems like a very good choice for a first boat.

Good luck,
Best wishes 
Jeff


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