# Wombat seeks your opinion on a possible new Womboat.



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm not going to state my fors and agins just yet but I'd like to know what any or all of you think of this. If you are in the US ignore the price, boats down here are expensive compared to the US. Fact of life. I see much I like and some things I don't but overall.....

Note - In seeking a new Womboat we are looking for live aboard/cruising. The only racing we ever do is the occasional twilight. If we wanted a racer we'd look in Cascais. She's an hour or so from here so havn't seen her in the flesh as yet.

http://web.aanet.com.au/lamoore/frameyachtlistings.html (go to Warwick 40)

Feedback appreciated.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

tdw, which boat?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

denby said:


> tdw, which boat?


Whoops, that was supposed to link directly to the boat. Its the Warwick 40.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Why aren't the build dates listed? (The Amel Marumu 46 is very nice!)

Are the import taxes prohibitive in Australia? Because I would imagine there are deals (and excellent boats) in both NZ and SA and perhaps even Thailand that if you plan right, you could see several at a time to make it worth the flight.

But then I don't know if you're up to sailing it back to Oz just to save a few thousand.

EDIT: The Warwick is nice, but unsurprisingly the builder/designer are unknown to me. I wouldn't want a 22-year-old Volvo, and I would want more HP than 38 HP to push a 40 footer, and also to power whatever gets that electronics gear working, keeps the tinnies cold, and keeps the showers hot.

It's a capable looking boat, though.

Would the Amel be too big? It's about the same price, and they have a great reputation.

Avoid the Roberts designs. I've seen several of them, and I still have no idea if the guy draws decent boats, because they've all looked like they were built by a spastic with seven fingers, in the dark. I've heard that some like them, and they are common as muck, so I hope this isn't always the case.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

She looks nice and well kept. What is that crap on the sole though?
Not fmiliar with the boat...what is the underbody look like?


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice boat, your right boats are expensive down under. But do you really want to put fury critters in a nice boat?


----------



## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Shes a beaut mate !*

Buy Ms. Wombat 5 gallon pail of furniture polish for interior, and yourself a holystone for the deck. Other than that ,verry pretty. Attending to all that wood should keep you out of trouble. May not be any time for sailing.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Why aren't the build dates listed? (The Amel Marumu 46 is very nice!)
> 
> Are the import taxes prohibitive in Australia? Because I would imagine there are deals (and excellent boats) in both NZ and SA and perhaps even Thailand that if you plan right, you could see several at a time to make it worth the flight.
> 
> ...


Val,
I wouldn't touch a Roberts with a barge pole. In my mind the only half way decent boats with that man's name attached are copies. The Amel looks a nice thing for sure but I really do want to stay within 40'. Partly to do with docking and slipping costs and partly to do with keeping the size of the gear within limits.

Warwick design/construct is highly thought of in NZ and NZ is generally considered a great birthplace for a yacht, particularly timber or timber/composite.

22 year old Volvo is a bit of a worry, yes. Maybe have to factor in a re engine unless it has been maintained exceptionally well . Our old boat had a Volvo and it was utterly reliable but I confess a bit noisy. I wouldn't have thought 38hp to be a problem. My guess is that this is an easily driven hull.

Underwater, I'm not totally sure whether she has a skeg or not but she's fin keel. Waiting on more info come Monday.

I do keep an eye out for what's for sale in NZ. Sailing a new boat home is not a huge deal but as I'm still working, time does come into it. You don't just hand over your money and set sail across the Tasman as you'd understand.

Cam - crap on the sole covers what I believe are polished timber floors. The carpet would definitely have to go.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Upsidedowner,

you know its not my kind of boat, but i like it.

Seems a heavy boat, but for you should be OK, I like the fact that you can get a self tacking genoa.

Cool. Big bed for wombatmaking too!!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giu-

I'm surprised you didn't vote for the Amel Maramu.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Screw that....that's the ugliest boat on water....geee...

They are pretty good, but damn...are they ugly....

Its a misfit, like the Alerions....


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

RXBOT said:


> Buy Ms. Wombat 5 gallon pail of furniture polish for interior, and yourself a holystone for the deck. Other than that ,verry pretty. Attending to all that wood should keep you out of trouble. May not be any time for sailing.


Not so much concerned with keeping the interior up to scratch but the teak deck gives me pause for thought, particularly if it's screwed down. Deck leaks would be high on the list of things to check.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Upsidedowner,
> 
> you know its not my kind of boat, but i like it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex. I wasn't going to mention the Amel within earshot of you. 

The self tacking genoa bit I'm somewhat confused about. Not sure whether they mean self tacking staysail or an alternative to the number one genoa. If she does have removeable inner forestay with a self tacking staysail that would be good.

Aft cabin is nice but she still has three decent sea berths. For a boat on which the crew would usually be just the two of us that means off watch crew can sleep without getting in the way.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

What did you do? Did you strike it rich; find some gold in one of your burrows. Very nice boat, but if you want to look farther afield and can wait a bit I'll happily sail you one back from where ever, once I get mine home, no charge.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Absolutely beautiful interior which I'm a sucker for. I'd love to be able to polish that wood. I didn't pick up that the engine was that old. I would definitely factor a repower into the price since you'll probably need to do it, if not now then before you can resell it.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SimonV said:


> What did you do? Did you strike it rich; find some gold in one of your burrows. Very nice boat, but if you want to look farther afield and can wait a bit I'll happily sail you one back from where ever, once I get mine home, no charge.


Not in any hurry Simon. Indeed I think this will need to sit for a while so that we can screw the price down. Personally I think she is at least $30,000 over priced. Only issue with the dollars is that being timber someone might just snap her up quickly. If they do do so be it. I've learnt never to fall head over heals until you have settled on a price. I guess that should apply to women as well.  Thanks for your kind offer btw, remember that when you are bringing your new baby home I'm only a flight away from signing on as crew for any leg. To be honest if we were to look OS I'd wait until I had the time to cruise the area the boat was in first.

TES - Ad says complete engine overhaul. Engine in Raven is nearly as old as that and it has years left in it. You are probably correct about re engine before resale but if we did buy her I'd hope to keep her for many a year to come. Ms Wombat also loves all that timber although I'd be happy with a bit more white. At least she appears to be very well ventilated which is most important with all that dark timber.

Val - Looking again at the Amel I'd note that despite the extra size the galley is quite small and what about that front opening fridge ? Blech.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think it's a beautiful boat. Looks very comfortable, and the hull shape looks nice above the waterline. I don't think it's going to be heavy on the helm, it's not a tub.

Go sailing in her and tell us what you think !


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

TDw,
I've got a fridge that is top loading and front loading. My wife loves it but if you don't stack the beer just right don't ever open that front door!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

teshannon said:


> TDw,
> I've got a fridge that is top loading and front loading. My wife loves it but if you don't stack the beer just right don't ever open that front door!


Perfect combination. Use the front at anchor or at dock and the top when power is an issue. That thing in the Amel looks like a standard bar fridge. It's not even built in.

I'm going to have the broker email me more info on Monday or Tuesday. Then I'll probably hang loose till after New Year, when things slooooww right down.

As for my thoughts, she looks like she's got a nice hull shape. That solid dodger does make her a bit top heavy looking but that's a compromise I'd accept for the protection. With the addition of side and back clears that cockpit looks like a nice place to be at anchor.

The interior looks both comfortable and seaworthy. Good sea berths, sea going galley and all that. I'm a book freak so all those bookshelves in the passage to the aft cabin say nice things to me and engine access should be very good as it often is in a centre cockpit boat. Negative is lack of decent cockpit lockers and/or lazarette.

Alex has convinced me about the pros of a saildrive so thats OK. Hopefully she has a skeg.

I'm not a great fan of in mast roller furling but I guess I'd have to learn to live with it. It does give you a loose footed main which I quite like the idea of. My guess is that she would be a sweet sailor, not a speed machine but with all the crap we'd carry if she was a lightweight flyer we'd probably sink the poor thing.

We'll see. I'll let you all know when I get more info and/or have inspected her.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

TDw,
Good luck and hey. Giu's the only one who needs a speed sailor. The rest of us sit back and pop the flip tops.


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Hello Wombat,
having bought our Chieftan 38 only a few months ago I know what your going through. Our boat while the same vintage as the Warwick was substanially cheaper to buy but appears to have a very similar layout but not as much timber. Having researched teak decks to the "N"th degree I dont think I would ever have them unless they were on a new boat. While there is no argument regarding footing in all conidtions, boats that are 20 years plus old are getting towards replacement time. I had several estimates on one boat and it roughly equated to $1600 (aus) a square metre to replace. Depending on the subdeck leaks can also be a problem. I just took teak decked boats off my list.
Our motor is 25 years old, has 4500 hrs on it but my mechanic (who is very good) said provided we kept it serviced and maintained there is no reason why we should not get another 4500hrs out of if. It looks rough but never misses a beat and starts everytime. I think the motor is big enough for what you have in mind, we only have a 27 HP and it powers us along at 7.5 knots. 6knots in a 25 knot head wind. Yes I would like more power but I am not going to replace a perfectly good motor for one with more power at the moment.
Yes we need to replace the sails at some time but not in the next year or two. The chieftain is a New Zealand designed and built boat and on our shakedown cruise we easlily maintained a 7 knot average making 8.5 at times. We have 600 litres of water and we have found we have more then enough power with two 80 amp hr batteries. Only charged by motor. 
$220 K is a lot of money in anyones terms. Sue and I changed our minds so that we bought a cheaper well found boat which left us with a much larger cruising kitty. For a sticky beak at a cheiftan go to Able point yacht sales where there is one under contract at the moment 


Greg and Sue
Lake Macquarie


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

tdw..

She's a nice looking boat - I'm getting an implication that she is cold molded? Is that so? Some framing is visible in a couple of pictures.

Negative from my perspective is the furling main.

You can see the self tacking track just ahead of the mast, but the sail in the furler in the 1st picture is definitely a standard genoa, so that track may be for a staysail or a non overlapping jib (probably the preferred setup for shorthanded sailing)

Agree the carpet has to go, but if indeed there is a good sole underneath it's probably in good shape.

I think you'd like the hard dodger, and actually they've done a pretty nice job of it. The bimini style canvas unfortunately adds more height still.

Very "woody" which looks great but it also looks a bit dark - hard to get one without the other.

Aft cabin looks great, and the flush deck forward should make for a good sailing platform.

But indeed, pricey!!

Did you see this (44 foot version looks very similar...pricier still!!)
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...=AUD&units=Feet&id=1123336&lang=en&slim=quick&


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

nice boat indeed! It looks like the teak decks are glued down, rather than screwed.


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Nice looking boat. You like the center cockpit? Salon seems oddly broken up with posts and half-walls. Cozy berths.

My eye was drawn to the Delphia40 just above.... Probably sails like a tub, but airy & looks sharp.


----------



## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Nice boat with a lot of useful features. Two toilet/showers, place to sleep 7. How many people would you normally sail with?


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> Not so much concerned with keeping the interior up to scratch but the teak deck gives me pause for thought, particularly if it's screwed down. Deck leaks would be high on the list of things to check.


Wood decks are lovely...on other peoples' boats. Between the caulking, the bungs and the trapping of water...no thanks. There's a reason why cars don't have running boards these days, either.

On the previous incarnation of this site were a cruising couple called "Sue and Larry" who recorded their (painful and time-consuming but necessary) decision to dispense with their teak deck. What a nightmare.

It's not even as good an anti-skid as other products, although I'm sure it was great until, say, 1960.

It sounds as if you are planning to go a little further than coastal, if you are concerned with the stronger sort of underbody features like skegs. And if my continent was fronted by 2,000 miles of coral, I would be, as well.

I think you can do better for those prices, and perhaps focus on things that most boat adverts won't list, like ease of engine access, quality of electrical installation, access to thruhulls and steering gear, ground tackle stowage, dorade/venting provisions and the sort of things that are going to have a greater affect on your cruising comfort and security than the condition of the teak. It's like my wife finding out our cruiser had a Lavac and really big, clean hoses: she said "let's work out from here and see if the rest of the boat is done right."

Changing "the look" is about the easiest and least disruptive thing on a boat.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> Val - Looking again at the Amel I'd note that despite the extra size the galley is quite small and what about that front opening fridge ? Blech.


A small galley makes sense in a seaway...less distance to slip with a hot pan of bacon...but a front opening fridge is moronic, I agree. The proper galley fridge is a deep square bucket with many inches of foam around it, a heavy gasketed lid, and nice wire baskets so you can stow food tightly and logically by type, and don't have to spend time rummaging around with the thick, heavy lid up.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Greg and Sue - I take your point on the deck, I really do. Of all the things about this boat that make me stop and ponder, the teak deck would be way up the top of the list. Looks great, can be a right royal pain in the bum. One thing is for sure, if I ripped one off a boat I'd not replace it.

Faster - yes she is cold moulded. While I have no problem with the idea of owning a plastic boat and I already have a steel one, coldmoulded is my favourite, aesthetically. I agree re the main. Never experienced one myself but they do worry me. The self tacking jib business will become clear on inspection. Maybe I'd prefer a lighter timber and a bit more white but dark doesn't worry me. I'm not really a light and airy kind of guy, well airy maybe, but I can live with a bit of gloom. To be honest, too much light colour down below can be quite glarey.

Lion - that's what I'm hoping. 

Bob - to be honest I'd prefer aft cockpit but I'm not totally committed should I find the right boat and she happens to be centre. Centre does give you a nice big port cabin but most 40'ers fore cabins are quite large enough for us. Regarding the posts and half bulkheads breaking up the saloon, that is for the good. Plenty of hand holds for when the going gets rough. 

Idiens - Of all the useless things a boat can have surely a second shower would have to rate highly. Quite frankly I'm not even all that convinced about two heads. OTOH, Ms Wombat is very pro the second head. In support of the second head , at least you have a good wet locker for the foulies. Yes she has seven berths but two of them double as settees and having that single berth in the passageway gives a nice out of way sea berth on port tack while the starboard settee is the other. This leaves the port settee for the watchkeeper. Hard to fault that arrangement. We would never cruise long term with any more than one extra crew, perhaps. Occasionally have guests on board for an evening at anchor. To my mind the layout is pretty damn good. Never in a million years would I have seven people sleeping on board. It's one of the reasons I want to limit us to 40' max as it seems to me that as boats get bigger all you end up with is more sleeping berths.

Valiente - Have a look at the two galleys closely. Even though the Warwick has a bigger galley it is very compact and should work well at sea. Well, as good as any galley works at sea that is. Both you and others have commented on the teak deck and I have a feeling it may be the boats most serious drawback. Not so bad if it's glued and not screwed but nonetheless they are work, hot under foot in the sunshine and a devil if they go wrong. As someone who is bracing themselves for a head rebuild (have to put in a holding tank so might as well go the whole hog) I can empathise with your wife. As you say cosmetic changes are simple and not a major consideration provided the boat doesn't make you want to throw up at the sight of her.

I'm going to get more info and probably arrange an inspection. The price is too high but that is something for the future. in general, I do love cold moulded and good ones don't come along all that often so the price may well reflect that. We shall see, but the exercise is fun even if it all comes to nought. 

Thanks again for all your input.

Oh, yes, the 44'er is a beauty but oh the price.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

By all means look, but the more you discuss what you like, the more I'm convinced a more appropriate boat might exist in your neighbourhood. 

After all, people come to Australia all the time in sea-tested, well-equipped cruisers...and then promptly divorce over a wrong look on Bondi Beach. You never know what might be priced to move!


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

SimonV said:


> What did you do? Did you strike it rich; find some gold in one of your burrows. Very nice boat, but if you want to look farther afield and can wait a bit I'll happily sail you one back from where ever, once I get mine home, no charge.


Wombat - Surprisingly, there are going to be no good boats here for him to sail home. They are all either sold or junk, not worth his money. The only option left will be that "his" boat will be "my" boat. Hope you like Canadian Boats Simon.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> By all means look, but the more you discuss what you like, the more I'm convinced a more appropriate boat might exist in your neighbourhood.
> 
> After all, people come to Australia all the time in sea-tested, well-equipped cruisers...and then promptly divorce over a wrong look on Bondi Beach. You never know what might be priced to move!


Exactly so. Before we bought Raven I guess it was a year looking, probably a touch longer. Falling in love with a photograph is not the best way of assessing a boats suitability. On the other hand its only by looking that one can make a logicial decision.

My guess at this stage is that the Warwick will not make the cut due to concerns on maintenance. Ok , cold moulded is not the same as non glassed timber in terms of work required but that deck will still need to be kept in shape. there is also going to be a lot of umming and ahhing over centre v aft cockpit.

Of interest in this discussion is that the last solid contender , glass with a teak deck laid over glassed ply was rejected purely from concern over the deck. A cored deck is one thing, a cored deck with teak screwed to it is another thing altogether.

BF - You didn't say what you thought of her ? No need to worry about Simon, if he gets stranded we'll send over a Manly Ferry to bring him home.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ozsailer said:


> Hello Wombat,
> having bought our Chieftan 38 only a few months ago I know what your going through. Our boat while the same vintage as the Warwick was substanially cheaper to buy but appears to have a very similar layout but not as much timber. Having researched teak decks to the "N"th degree I dont think I would ever have them unless they were on a new boat. While there is no argument regarding footing in all conidtions, boats that are 20 years plus old are getting towards replacement time. I had several estimates on one boat and it roughly equated to $1600 (aus) a square metre to replace. Depending on the subdeck leaks can also be a problem. I just took teak decked boats off my list.
> Our motor is 25 years old, has 4500 hrs on it but my mechanic (who is very good) said provided we kept it serviced and maintained there is no reason why we should not get another 4500hrs out of if. It looks rough but never misses a beat and starts everytime. I think the motor is big enough for what you have in mind, we only have a 27 HP and it powers us along at 7.5 knots. 6knots in a 25 knot head wind. Yes I would like more power but I am not going to replace a perfectly good motor for one with more power at the moment.
> Yes we need to replace the sails at some time but not in the next year or two. The chieftain is a New Zealand designed and built boat and on our shakedown cruise we easlily maintained a 7 knot average making 8.5 at times. We have 600 litres of water and we have found we have more then enough power with two 80 amp hr batteries. Only charged by motor.
> ...


I did have a squizz at the Chieftain and I can see what you mean. The one at Abel is a bit rough round the edges and all that burgundy freaks me out but the bones look good.


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Hello Wombat,
I guess when you are looking in the second hand market its a case of compromise. I really wanted a new boat, planned the last ten years on buying and selling real estate to be able to live the dream one day. Funny how things change. Even on the boat we bought there are things that I dont like but I compromised and the more I go out on this one the more I find that I like about her. Yep she is rough in places, yep gotta pay out some money on replacing a few things here and there, yep she was unloved previously but in time she will become one of the family ( sad we talk about boats this way ) 
The thing is we can leave on this boat right now, just pull up the anchor and go. As you say good bones. I am getting used to the centre cockpit and to date its been a very comforatble ride. I guess it was a case of getting on this boat and going Yep this is the one and then working out the rest.



Greg and Sue
Lake M


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Andrew,
if your coming up this way in January let me know at gharding @ hunterlink.net.au. We will be on the lake somewhere. At the moment I cannot respond to personal emails on this site as I am a junior member Doh.
so I can get past this dam censor just dont put any spaces in my email address


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TDW... would it not be logical that the best time of year to shop for used boats in Oz and NZ would be the southern winter (say in July?). That's the case here, because a lot of people have to haul boats for winter storage or maintenance, and decide to just get rid of them rather than incur a fresh year's worth of fees.

Same thing might apply to your area.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Sorry for the late reply, TDW. Nice looking boat. I like the aft berth a lot. Looks really nice from a LA point of view. DOes the Mrs. like the Galley? Looked a bit small in the pics, but hard to say unless you are there. I know nothing of those boats, though. Just giving impressions from a LA point of view on the pics. I think it is only you two also, right? THe head is forward(?) so that may make access tough with guests over and the wings on the table up. I would also try leaning back on the coamings in the cockpit and make sure they are comfortable for long night watches.

I do not mean to sound like I am bringing up negatives - there do not look to be many. Just different thoughts. She is pretty, especially given the age. Looks like she has been well cared for and would be a great boat.

Take care,

- CD


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Sorry for the late reply, TDW. Nice looking boat. I like the aft berth a lot. Looks really nice from a LA point of view. DOes the Mrs. like the Galley? Looked a bit small in the pics, but hard to say unless you are there. I know nothing of those boats, though. Just giving impressions from a LA point of view on the pics. I think it is only you two also, right? THe head is forward(?) so that may make access tough with guests over and the wings on the table up. I would also try leaning back on the coamings in the cockpit and make sure they are comfortable for long night watches.
> 
> I do not mean to sound like I am bringing up negatives - there do not look to be many. Just different thoughts. She is pretty, especially given the age. Looks like she has been well cared for and would be a great boat.
> 
> ...


CD - Galley is compact yes but I don't mind that provided it's well laid out. Only one sink which is a negative but note how the bench space goes under the companionway and around the corner. Also the chart table is across the way and could be used as extra counter space. Ms Wombat and I are pretty much OK with the galley size and neither of us like those galleys that run down one side of the cabin. On the move we eat rice and stir fries , at anchor mainly BBQ except in winter when we will eat casseroles and the like. For the two of us and given our eating habits that galley is looking OK for us. Probably want to redo the cockpit table.

Notice how the cockpit seats go well forward in under the house. Even has natty little teak headrests forward. I'd reckon that cockpit would be an absolute dream of a place to stand a night watch.

I'd note that one other boat we have considered has a centre cockpit that's only about 4 1/2 - 5 feet long. I'm sorry , but I cannot see us having a boat with a cockpit we cannot lie down in.

She has two heads. One forward, one aft. We very rarely allow guests to stay on board over night unless she is into threesomes.  Seriously, we would probably use the forward head for emergency evacuations and as a wet locker. Guests are at the bottom of my list for consideration but she does have a quite comfortable looking forward cabin and one great advantage of a CC is that you end up with a modicum of privacy in both cabins.

The deck and price are still the two major issues of concern. Still waiting to hear back from broker.

Stay Tuned.

Greg/Sue - generally speaking 'rough round the edges' is curable. For me it's not a major concern, indeed the super smooth new boat doesn't do it for me if we are talking the likes of Juneau, Benetau etc. Those boats lack any sense of character whatsoever and I like a bit of personality in my life. (ps, if we do make it to Lake Mac I'll let you know.) Oh, yes, did I misunderstand or is your Chieftain a CC ?

Val - The reason I have started looking now is for the reasons you state and why I said I wouldn't even look at this boat until next year. there will be a burst of buying come January as a lot of people who have chartered for a holiday go out and buy something but from then until late winter things slow down for the sellers. If she sells in the meantime, them's the breaks.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I like the design, I really do. Does it have a seperate shower?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> I like the design, I really do. Does it have a seperate shower?


Don't know. It appears that in one of the heads that the shower and toilet are spearate from the vanity but I'll not know for sure until we inspect.

I'm also a little concerned about the draft which is 6'6". Personally I prefer to keep it to 6' or under particularly when you allow for a cruiser to be a bit below her marks when she is loaded up and ready to go.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> Of interest in this discussion is that the last solid contender , glass with a teak deck laid over glassed ply was rejected purely from concern over the deck. A cored deck is one thing, a cored deck with teak screwed to it is another thing altogether


I missed this post. First thing I thought of was a sponge nailed to the underside of a bunch of lathe held together with melting tar.

Talk about a failboat.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> I missed this post. First thing I thought of was a sponge nailed to the underside of a bunch of lathe held together with melting tar.
> 
> Talk about a failboat.


Interestingly enough I've now read two reports on the boat design concerned and they have been glowing in their praise.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

tdw said:


> Interestingly enough I've now read two reports on the boat design concerned and they have been glowing in their praise.


Did the owner write both of them??? (smile)

BTW, I did not see a BBQ grill. Deal is off TDW. Find another boat. THis one won't work. The owner has no taste.

- CD


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Did the owner write both of them??? (smile)
> 
> BTW, I did not see a BBQ grill. Deal is off TDW. Find another boat. THis one won't work. The owner has no taste.
> 
> - CD


One of them anyway but they weren't trying to sell. 

The BBQ issue will be addressed, don't you worry about that.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> Interestingly enough I've now read two reports on the boat design concerned and they have been glowing in their praise.


That may be, but a cored deck through which is screwed a teak deck seems a poor starting place, just on odds alone. You can glue waxed paper to a sieve and make it watertight, too...but there are better ideas!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> That may be, but a cored deck through which is screwed a teak deck seems a poor starting place, just on odds alone. You can glue waxed paper to a sieve and make it watertight, too...but there are better ideas!


Agreed. The cored deck thing intrigues me. I mean why ? Purely for cost cutting ? Maybe reducing weight ? Insulation ? Other than those possibilities they seem to have no redeeming features whatsoever.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TDW-

A cored deck is far stronger and lighter than the equivalent weight of uncored fiberglass would be. It also does add some insulation value to the boat, and make the boat stiffer and lighter than it would be without the cored deck. 

The problem with Fiberglass is that it isn't all that rigid a material. By introducing a core material, like foam or better yet, end-grain balsa, you effectively turn the two layers of fiberglass into a much more rigid structure, similar to an i-beam, where the two layers are in tension with respect to each other. Foam or end-grain balsa is far lighter than the equivalent volume of fiberglass. Often, a cored laminate costs less in materials than a solid hull of equivalent strength would... and is much better for the boat, since it is lighter. 

The core material in a cored laminate has to serve several functions. First, it acts as a spacer between the two layers of fiberglass that surround it. Second, it has to resist shearing forces between the two layers. Third, it has to resist compression forces on the laminate. 

Foam or end grain balsa both act as a spacer. This is not really difficult for any core material... however, a good core material is light, strong and cheap. This is why end-grain balsa and various types of extruded foam sheeting are used as common core materials.

End grain balsa has much better shear resistance than most foams do. In fact, some of the "delamination" problems found in foam-cored decks and hulls aren't actually delaminations technically, but a failure in the foam core section. This commonly happens in boats with rigid PVC foam core material, like Divinylcell, where the laminate is overstressed, and you may hear a loud "bang", which is not the laminate breaking, but the foam core shearing under a sudden impact. This is less common with the ductile PVC foams, like Airex. 

End grain balsa is stronger than most of the PVC foams in compression resistance as well. If a boat is going to be foam cored, it probably makes more sense to make the hull cored with Airex, rather than Divinylcell, since the ductile foams, like Airex, will tend to compress in case of impact, often preserving the integrity of the inner laminate skin in the case of an impact—preventing water from entering the boat. This can be further enhanced by the use of Kevlar as a reinforcing layer on the interior skin laminate. The deck, if foam cored, should be using a semi-rigid foam, like Divinylcell, since it will generally resist temperature related deformation better. 

Another problem with foam cores is that they will tend to allow water to migrate for longer distances once it gets inside the laminate. End-grain balsa doesn't do this...limiting the delamination to a fairly localized area, until the balsa degrades. 

Finally, the foams tend to have adhesion and wetting out issues with resins used in boat building, and are generally coated with a adhesive putty or paste of some sort. End-grain balsa tends to bond quite well to the outer laminate layers, due to the resin absorption by capillary action. 

However, if not enough resin is used, or the balsa isn't pre-coated with resin, the wicking action can remove enough resin to leave the laminate in contact with the balsa starved for resin, and not properly wetted out. This can result in a very weak laminate—with dry voids in the layup. 

Foams on the other hand, unless using a foam that is specifically stabilized for composite core use, can outgas, leading to possible voids in the lamination along the skin to core bonding site. However, most manufacturers now make a stabilized version, which greatly reduces the foam's tendency to outgas during the lamination and curing process. The outgassing problem is more of an issue in epoxy resin laminates, where the curing is done at elevated temperatures. 

One final thing... most of the foams used in composite laminates will produce very toxic gases in the case of a fire. A balsa cored laminate will generally resist burning better and not produce as much in the way of poisonous fumes. This is one reason the BART subway system switched from foam cored panels to balsa-cored panels in their trains, as it is far safer for the passengers in the case of a fire. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> Agreed. The cored deck thing intrigues me. I mean why ? Purely for cost cutting ? Maybe reducing weight ? Insulation ? Other than those possibilities they seem to have no redeeming features whatsoever.


A cored deck with solid squares of glass for the through-bolted deck gear is a great thing, because the composite "sandwich" is intrinsically stronger than solid glass, and at less weight.

But it is sometimes not done properly, and you get rot. Basically, a cored deck is great until you put a single hole into it, at which point it's only a matter of time before it's compromised.

Screwing a teak deck to a cored deck? Asking for it.


----------



## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

*Nice but Expensive*

Hi Wombat. Nice boat but expensive, especially for a wooden boat of that age. I am based in Perth, Australia and have been watching the prices pretty closely for the last couple of years. There is an Adams 39 built out of West System here in Perth that has been on the market for over 2 years. They have been asking $65k. Have you also seen the VAN DE STADT CARRIBBEAN 40 made out of cold moulded ply that was launched in 2003? That one is asking $185,000. Both these boats are listed on Boatsonline (tried adding the link but the system would not let me). If you have trouble finding them e-mail me & I'll send you the link (assuming you can email me at Sailnet? I am a newby so not sure how this system works)

The Carribbean 40 is actually parked near my boat. Looked nice when I've stopped to check it out.

Ilenart


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Ilenart said:


> Hi Wombat. Nice boat but expensive, especially for a wooden boat of that age. I am based in Perth, Australia and have been watching the prices pretty closely for the last couple of years. There is an Adams 39 built out of West System here in Perth that has been on the market for over 2 years. They have been asking $65k. Have you also seen the VAN DE STADT CARRIBBEAN 40 made out of cold moulded ply that was launched in 2003? That one is asking $185,000. Both these boats are listed on Boatsonline (tried adding the link but the system would not let me). If you have trouble finding them e-mail me & I'll send you the link (assuming you can email me at Sailnet? I am a newby so not sure how this system works)
> 
> The Carribbean 40 is actually parked near my boat. Looked nice when I've stopped to check it out.
> 
> Ilenart


I hadn't taken the Carribean in, I guess cos there is only one exterior shot of the thing but they are a nice boat. Basically a blown up version of what we have now. Much prefer to the Norman. Negatives for me are the relatively small galley (no bigger than our 34'er) and cramped v-berth.

I do agree that the Warwick is over priced but I'll reserve my judgement until I've seen her in the flesh which because of my workload I'm unlikely to do before New Year.

Oh, and BTW, I'm not fixated on timber. Quite frankly plastic will do me just as well. Having already owned a steel boat I doubt I'd go that way again. The maintenance is an issue even with a 34'er. Forty might be a bit much for me to look after. I think if I lived in a cold climate where boats are hauled for winter then the maintenance might not be an issue. After all with the thing on dry land for three months you could get a lot of work done but as you well know, down here we get a full year in the water and I'd rather sail than paint.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Howdy Wombat , 
forgive me for not reading the entire thread , but , em .
What dont you like about the Amel on that site . Yes the Warrick looks stout and comfy but carpet ??? Oh and one other thing , what dont you like about the Amel ?


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

tdw said:


> After all with the thing on dry land for three months you could get a lot of work done but as you well know, down here we get a full year in the water and I'd rather sail than paint.


I may approach you backchannel for your advice on this sort of thing before we leave, TDW. I am of the "do a little bit every day" school of rust prevention, and I get the impression this is the best strategy with steel in warm salt water.

It's funny: just as I typed "warm salt water", the room went dark as a big drift of snow blew off the roof. We are getting smacked today and tomorrow with 30 cm. of snow and 40 knot winds...I won't get to the boat until Tuesday.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Update*

Some of you may remember this thread from late last year. Saturday we went and had a look at her. Very nice indeed. Built like the proverbial brick outhouse and overall in superb condition for her age. I'm getting some more pics emailed to me which I should have tomorrow. Not sailed her as yet but have seen her underway by engine and she is looks a very easily driven hull. Asking price has dropped $25,000.

She has some very interesting features. In cruising mode she runs with a self tacking genoa which is great for a couple of old geriatrics but also has a big overlapping genoa when a bit of extra oomph is required.

Underbody is fin with a kind of bulb. The bulb was added after she was built as she was apparently a bit tender. She was, btw, the first of the design built and the only one made from timber. My guess is that she was the plug for the mould. I'll post pics later.

Mainsail needs replacing or at least recutting. Owner says it has stretched but is otherwise in good condition. Engine had a complete rebuild couple of years back, rigging is five years old but looks in excellent shape. We'd factor in new standing rigging anyway.

stay tuned.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Sounds like a possible. I would follow the general trend and get separate hull and engine surveying, with an oil analysis. As I keep blathering about elsewhere, a two-year-old rebuild if they haven't changed the oil in that time isn't worth much. 

Also pay close attention to the bilges and their "sweetness". Wood, being organic, will absorb even if coated the products of humans (if they've neglected plumbing basics), the products of the engine and those of the sea itself. I know in a wood boat, I'd want a dripless packing gland, for instance. Internal rot would be most unpleasant and hard to remedy. Tankage would have to be scrupulously maintained.

Cold-moulded wood or FRP-encapsulated wood boats are a great idea that came and went, probably due to the fact that FRP fans don't know wood boat building techniques and wood boat fans see FRP as heresy, preferring oakum and treenails and authentic bouts of scurvy instead. But if done right, like when ferro-cement is done right, they have a lot of advantages.

You'll need to find a hell of a surveyor, however, who can tell you constructive things versus deal-breaking ones. Good luck. The seller sounds "motivated", which is a bit equivocal, but promising nonetheless.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Sounds like a possible. I would follow the general trend and get separate hull and engine surveying, with an oil analysis. As I keep blathering about elsewhere, a two-year-old rebuild if they haven't changed the oil in that time isn't worth much.
> 
> Also pay close attention to the bilges and their "sweetness". Wood, being organic, will absorb even if coated the products of humans (if they've neglected plumbing basics), the products of the engine and those of the sea itself. I know in a wood boat, I'd want a dripless packing gland, for instance. Internal rot would be most unpleasant and hard to remedy. Tankage would have to be scrupulously maintained.
> 
> ...


Owner is meticulous in most areas. I would get a separate engine survey and beyond the hull survey I'd also get her looked over by a mate who is a wooden boat genius. He is a long standing member of the wooden boat society so I'm sure he will find us the right surveyor.

The bilges are so sweet you could sugar your tea with them. Dry as a bone, indeed the only sign of any water ingress is on one of the forward hatches which shows a small stain round the timber trim indicating that the hatch needs rebedding. Only thing in the bilge was a bit of dry dust. I tapped about in the obvious places and found zero evidence of softness in the timbers. She is glassed inside (clear) and out and there is no evidence of deterioration of the glass.

No prop shaft, has one of those saildrive thingys that Alex likes so much. Engine has pretty good access and from what I saw it really does look in good nick. Freshwater cooled as well. Water pump needs looking at as the engine is running just a little warm at maximum revs. Otherwise engine looks good with no obvious oil or water leaks. When running it is reasonably quiet , even when in neutral and the exhaust is clear with no smoke.

The deck will need investigating. Certainly there are no deck leaks and the teak itself looks in excellent condition, not worn and with plenty of thickness. It is screwed down but over the main deck which is plywood and the screws do not penetrate the ply. One thing is for sure she is well insulated. We came on board with virtually everything shut up on a hot summers day and she was more than acceptably cool inside with no mustiness evident.

Down below there is little to be done. The floor boards under the carpet are plain painted ply. Raven has floor boards of plywood with a teak/holly veneer and this is an excellent floor, we'd probably rip up the old and replace. While I like the odd rug for the colder months I am no fan of complete carpet in a boat so it would have to go.

Galley is all in good condition although the stove is a bit long in the tooth. We purchased a Force 10 range for Raven when we converted from spirit stove to gas and it's probably in our heads to do a swap if we havn't sold Raven and when we did decide to buy. Fridge and freezer of good size, acceptable overall storage. Could do with more drawers as she only has two that are under the chart table, side entry.

Heads are all pretty good. Electric with holding tank aft manual direct pump out forward. Hot and cold pressure water to both heads, we would ignore the forward shower as this space is all one. The aft head however is in three cubicles, vanity, head and shower all separate. Holding tank is a flexible bag type arrangement which we'd change to a solid tank in an attempt to control the smell. Thankfully the HT is in a well sealed locker so the smell doesn't invade the other areas but open that locker and whoa mama. Not nice. This would be first order of business. Both showers drain into their own sumps so no grey water goes into the bilge.

General accomodation is excellent. Mattresses and cushions are relatively new, of A1 quality foam and good and thick. Upholstery is both tasteful as well as almost new. I used to work in the furniture industry and I can tell top quality upholstery when I see it. Aft cabin is a joy. Being able to sit up in bed and look out is something we have longed for since we once shared an anchorage with a Freedom 40. The joinery is superb. The saloon table is almost a work of art and solid as a rock. Even the forward cabin is a nice comfy place and sleeping head forward would not be a problem. Plenty of clothes storage in both cabins along with about four metres of bookshelves in each cabin.

As I mentioned ventilation is obviously good. Two dorade vents allow permanent ventilation, she has five hatches into the cabin and five opening ports. There are also two opening hatches in the dodger. No fans and although we would probably fit a couple the fact that they have not been deemed necessary to date tends to support the case for her being well insulated.

Cockpit is a joy. Good long seats, two removeable cockpit tables and bins for lines etc, all of which have drainage to the side decks. Protection from the elements could only be bettered by a full pilot house. Cockpit has an overhead cover with removeable sides and back but they are in poor condition and would need to be replaced fairly soon but the ability to completely enclose the cockpit is a boon for a couple who like anchoring out in winter. We'd also have a full set of awnings made up.

Aft of the cockpit sits the liferaft with a solid frame that could easily double as a table and the two storage bins (one for gas bottles and the other in lieu of a lazarette) provide a couple of nice seats. Between the bins is access to the stern boarding ladder although a folding platform would be a nice additional touch.

Negatives are there as well plus some features I am unused to so need to figure out whether they are good or bad. She is fitted with hydraulic steering about which I know nothing but presume that in exchange for lighter load on the wheel you would lose feel. I can't quite understand why it was deemed necessary in a 40'er. Tiller is available for emergency use. I've never been a big fan of in mast furling but the way this is installed gives ready access to the mechanism and perhaps for a couple of old farts its not such a bad idea. Twin anchor lockers forward , one exclusively for the chain and other for storage are good but access to the chain locker appears to be very restricted and this is a definite area for concern. One of the liferail staunchans is broken at the base and another is badly bent, my feeling is that they all need beefing up but at least they are of good height. No mast steps which is both good and bad. I like the convenience of the things but recent experience shows they can be problematic.

As previously noted mainsail is tired and would need either replacing or recutting. Working headsail is in good order, overlapping genoa is almost brand new, mps the same and storm trysail has never been out of it's bag. Standing rigging we would replace within the first year or so although it all looks in fine order and only the wire would need renewing. Running rigging is either brand new or in excellent condition. Winches, blocks, rope jammers and cleats are all AOK. She also has a removeable inner forestay for storm jib and storm trysail has its own dedicated track. Spinnaker pole is mounted to track on mast. Winches are all Barient self tailing. I have to say I prefer chrome to black but that's not a big deal really.

Underwater (only from pics and peering into the water) looks good and seemingly she is a bit nippy having won the odd race in her division at the local yacht club last year. We've not sailed her yet but under power she moves along quite spritely despite having been antifouled over a year ago. Owner said that he'd had a diver clean the hull six months ago and he reported only a bit of slime but that the propellor was badly fouled. This may be the cause of the slight overheating rather than the water pump or a faulty thermostat but this will have to be investigated. It's my single biggest concern.

Electricals are good with not a lot of spaghetti. She has radar (raytheon) , vhf and ssb radios, gps with chart plotter (Autohelm Navcentre with c-map system) although no cockpit repeater. Wind speed/direction, log, depth sounder, Brooks and Gatehouse, engine rev counter and temp gauge all visible from wheel , Raytheon auto pilot. Good music system with speakers in cabin and cockpit. Lighting is both fluorescent and incandescent which suits me with the addition of an oil lamp or two. Nav lights are masthead tricolour with all round white plus a spare set of battery operated port starboard and stern. Two solar panels of dubious age and quality sit on top of the dodger although owner reckons they are more than adequate to keep the batteries topped up. She has three sealed batteries, one dedicated for starting and two house and she is fitted with shore power connection and an inverter.

Safety gear is all good but some of it needs upgrading. Raft is out of survey so will need checking and Epirb needs upgrading to 406mhz. One electric bilge pump and two manual which we would beef up by the addition of a second electric.

Tankage is 300 litres of diesel in two tanks and 750 litres of water in three tanks.

Dinghy is an old clunker fibreglass in good condition but we already have a Zodiac which we would retain plus we would add two inflatable kyaks. Dinghy has an outboard but it's only 2.5 horsepower.

I think that's about it. I'm old enough to know that its a bad move to fall in love with a boat until she is yours so I'm trying to keep a level head. Problem is , she suits our needs extremely well and in the areas where we would like something she doesn't offer we understand that we'd need to go bigger and both of us would prefer to stay around 40'.

Regarding the two Armels that are for sale by the same broker one is quite old and well past her prime while the other has been poorly looked after and in need of a lot of work.

Her price is still excessive I think but that is for ongoing negotiation. Owner is heading overseas and will be away until mid March so we have plenty of time to consider our options. We won't buy her unless we consider the price is good value and we havn't even started the process of selling our Raven which I would prefer to have done before we buy another. We shall see what we shall see but it's been fun so far.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Admit it, Fluff. It's all that bookshelf space that's making your tail wag. (g)


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Admit it, Fluff. It's all that bookshelf space that's making your tail wag. (g)


Ah tis true but there is actually less than I'd first thought. What i'd taken to be a number of bookshelves ouside of the sea berth turned out to be too shallow for books. I can see that situation changing...where's me chainsaw...bwahaha....

oh yes, I forgot to put CDs mind at rest, BBQ, quantity ONE, all present and accounted for SIR !!


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

You've certainly taken good note of all the same details as I would, and your question marks aren't huge issues and may prove to be bargaining points.

I can speak for hydraulic steering: it's quite nice once you get used to it. I have a wheel in the pilothouse and a wheel in the aft deck well, and I use them both. There's enough friction (well, it's more rigidity than friction, I suppose) in the system that means you can go "hands free" without an auto pilot for some time before you begin to veer. My impression is that it's an economical way to steer in concert with an autopilot, and it's very quiet. Maintenance is a once-a-year hydraulic oil change, so far.

As a test, I bypassed the hydraulics, put on the tiller (my rudder is large and transom-hung, so I get immediate results having the rudder essentially past the stern) and "hand-steered" a few times. It's quite a work-out, but I will use the tiller in concert with a wind-vane and some externally mounted blocks. With the hydraulics bypassed, there is very little friction on the pintles and gudgeons, and I get two independent means to steer the boat automatically. If something busted between the rudder quadrant and wheel steering with the typical cable and sheave or rack and pinion steering, it might be more difficult to rig a vane to steer on the typically stumpy emergency tiller.

So if you WANT "the feel", it will be there at the flick of a lever. Just make sure you've got a good five foot of tiller for leverage, because I suspect that boat's a handful in a blow.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I'll second Val's thoughts on the hydraulics. You'll find them far more reliable and you'll develop a bit different sense of feel for it. Put a turk's head around your atop your wheel rim when it's in the midships position and it will aid in developing that feel.


----------



## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

alot of teak


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente said:


> So if you WANT "the feel", it will be there at the flick of a lever. Just make sure you've got a good five foot of tiller for leverage, because I suspect that boat's a handful in a blow.


What makes you say that ?


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Because it's probably not light, it's 40 feet and the forces on the tiller can get pretty high with larger boats. My 9,000 lbs. 33 footer I could steer very easily with a five-foot tiller, but the new boat has a vast rudder about 2.5 times the size and with a four-inch rudder post. Turning it under tiller takes more mechanical advantage, and that means a longer lever. I've done it in 20 knots, and one breaks a sweat...but then I probably need a longer tiller...

There's a reason why you don't see dedicated tillers on many boats over 40 feet, and that's because it would have to be eight feet long to get that "feather-touch" you find in a smaller boat.


----------



## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

IMHO, if god had intended Wombats to navigate across any kind of water, don't you think he would have given them something more apart from 4 short legs and a big 'stern' ?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

God tried that. 
It came out the Platypuss.
At least he kept them both South of the Equator.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Robby Barlow said:


> IMHO, if god had intended Wombats to navigate across any kind of water, don't you think he would have given them something more apart from 4 short legs and a big 'stern' ?


Shallow draft and plenty of buoyancy in the stern. Lack of a centreboard makes them more suitable for reaching and running but allows for gunkholing and that buoyant arse makes crossing bars easier.

CK - Platypus was a trial run for the real thing. Cost overruns. Bill was to big and it's generally conceded that in the Platypous God laid an egg, I guess a curates egg cos they are good in parts.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Update*

We didn't even get to put in an offer !!!

The owner went weird on us. I knew he was going away until mid March so told broker we'd wait until he got back before we took things any further. We then got a very strange email from owner suggesting that the broker had decided that we were only tyre kickers and that we had to sell our existing boat before we could afford to buy this one. That was rubbish and I'd already told broker that selling our existing boat was not a prerequisite to buying the new one. I also found it very strange indeed that someone who was a tyre kicker would travel two hours to view the thing and then spend so much time scrabbling about in the bilges but there you go.

Anyway, I made my feelings known to the owner and told him to go off on holiday and we'd speak when he got back. Quite frankly the thing was starting to smell funny to me. Personally I suspected he was trying to crunch us into making a quick decision at an inflated price and it blew up in his face.

Next thing I know she's been withdrawn from sale. I don't no what the antonymn of a tyre kicker is but methinks the owner was the one playing funny buggers. Either that or someone came along and made a very fast decision and bought her. Such is life, if that's the case. She is a relatively unique boat so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone saw and simply wrote out a cheque.

Couple of other irons in the fire including a Passport 42 which we are hoping to view this weekend or at worst next.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Sorry to hear that Womby*

Sounded like a neat boat...Sellers can be difficult...I should know ..Im trying to sell two right now..

Don't give up just yet...


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Bummer, TD!

Passports should do just fine... The 42 was designed by a local Vancouver designer, didn't CD's father just buy one recently....?

But I can see the attraction on owning a good, nice, unique boat too.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Faster said:


> Bummer, TD!
> 
> Passports should do just fine... The 42 was designed by a local Vancouver designer, didn't CD's father just buy one recently....?
> 
> But I can see the attraction on owning a good, nice, unique boat too.


Should be interesting, hoping to go see her tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

Unique is nice, particularly when it's as beautiful as the she is. Not many P42s down this way however and they are not your basic plastic fantastic. We did actually look at a 44' cruiser/racer by an Australian, Joe Adams who is a very well regarded designer in Oz. Now while I do admire many of his boats this thing left me unmoved. Plastic is not a no no for me but this was positively sterile. Would have been quick but I couldn't imagine her as home.

Did CD's dad buy a 42 ? Must go look at his thread again. For some reason I have it my mind that it was a 40. Also a lovely boat but the 40 was a Perry design while, as you say, the 42 was designed by a Canadian, Stan Huntingford. You know my liking for your lovely country so the idea of a Canadian design does have appeal.

What I do like about the P42 is the cutter rig with self tacking inner while the genoa is quite high cut so relatively easy for Ms Wombat to handle. Also built like the proverbial brick outhouse so I'd have no fear about passage making in her other than the mental instability of the skipper. 

The P42 also has a better looking galley than the other boat plus this one not only has everything that opens and shuts but also a brand spanking new Yanmar diesel.

Interestingly enough the owners did all the mechanical stuff, rig, winches, engine, wiring etc but didn't upgrade things like the upholstery. This suits us fine as we tend to find most boat interiors end up looking too fussy for our taste.

I'll report back and Raining, Wombats are particularly obstinate beasts. Sadly this results in many of them being on the losing end of a tussle with the odd semi.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Passport 42 is a great get you home cruiser. It's about what you'd expect in light airs, so if you are sailing to a weekend schedule, be prepared to resort to the engine a bit more than you'd perhaps like. However, they are usually equipped with Perkins 4-108s, for which spares are easily found.

Photos
boats for sale - 1986 Passport

If you do get it, you might want to consider a feathering prop. A choice semi-local to you is KiwiProp:
The Kiwi Feather Propeller Home Page

They were on my short list of feathering prop possibles, but the presence of a Toronto-based VariProp representative sold me on that brand.

Now, I haven't actually _installed _the thing yet, but I have great hopes for it based on my experience of an Autoprop on a similar-to-mine steel ketch with a pissy little Volvo 35 HP (a little small for a 36,000 lbs boat!). Properly pitched, the Autoprop gave 8.2 knots at 2,800 RPM in a flat sea, and allowed this frankly unwieldly boat to dock like a minivan in a Chinese supermarket parking lot. The feathering reduces drag enough to noticeably aid light-air performance, and most of these props can be pitched separately for forward or reverse, giving you bags of torque for stopping and "econo-cruising" in forward.

I do have experience with the Gori two-blade folder on my other boat, a cruiser-racer from the '70s. That gave me a very nice boost in light air, perhaps a 1/2 knot in speed under 10 knots of wind.

Something to consider, anyway. Good luck.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

TD I have the Kiwi prop on my baby and it is nothing like a New Zealander, this Kiwi actualy works. Sorry to read about you losing the other boat, but I do like the Passports, 40 and 42 but out of my price range. Talk about price, ordered a 260W soar panel kit and a ferris towed generator, they should arrive next week.


----------



## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

CD's dad bought a Tayana. Not a Passport. Labatt has the Passport.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Val,
She's been re engined (400 hours ago) with a brand spanking new Yanmar 4JH3E 56 hp and an Australian Autostream feathering prop. Should do the job. From what I know Yanmar do have a pretty good rep. A while to go yet before the deal is done but she is a solid old girl and of an era that I like. Could live without the fake timber look panels in the hull GRP but not a big deal really. I think they are a handsome boat and while not as unique as the W40 they are hardly as common as muck. 

Simon,
What brand and model of solar panel ? The P42 has a smaller one already and I'll need to consider whether to simply add an extra one of the same size or go for one large unit. I'll need to look at batteries as well. I havn't checked this out fully as yet but from the specs she only has one engine and one house. They are both 25 Plate 860CCA Automotive. (i know bugger all about battery technology so that means sfa to me.)
What's the gen on towed generators ? Again not something I know anything about other than I have seen mentioned that big fishies like to chomp off towed logs and that they need a fair bit of speed to work efficiently. I guess it would have to be an effing orca to take a generator. 

Quite honestly I can live with losing the other boat. The owner was really beginning to worry me and I don't like it when a deal puts me on edge. To my mind the P42 is in every way a better boat except for the size of the aft cabin, the second head (shrugs shoulders) and I did like the idea of timber albeit cold moulded. The Warwick also had a hard dodger, new upholstery and better covers but the difference in price will more (much more) than make up for the cost of adding/replacing those things. The P42 is more strongly put together to some extent and the sails are also in better condition. She won't be as quick in light airs but I'd reckon more capable in heavier weather. I very much like the cutter rig as well. Self tacking jib on the inner and high cut genoa up front will be much easier for the Ms W to handle. Storage space in the P42 is quite staggering, again an area where the centre cockpit of the W40 meant storage space was at a premium. Of prime importance the P42 has some 10-12 lineal metres of bookshelves, about the same as the W40.

I do need to sort out this issue of iron tanks. Not sure whether she still has the originals but I understand they can be problematic as they age.

PB - Thanks for that. I'd already asked Teshannon what he thought of their P42 ( but it's a Tayana as well) so I guess I'll just have to wing it instead of making a complete goose of myself and ask Cam what he thinks of his Passport (or was that Winabago ?)  Passport 40 is a Perry design , P42 in Huntingford so not much in the way of similarity except perhaps build quality and a passing nod to the Valiants.

CD - Even before you ask, settle my dear. BBQ is in hand. If it's not there yet it will be soon.  

Bit of argey bargey to go through before it's all done and dusted but what the heck, I enjoy the looking almost as much as the buying in many ways. 

Thanks all for you comments and advice.


----------



## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Nope Wombat, Cam has a Tayana as well.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sounds like all the wise men have gone with the Tayana! You should PM Labatt. Different designer but probably built by the same yard.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PBzeer said:


> Nope Wombat, Cam has a Tayana as well.


PB, I was joking, really I was.

TE, I have talked Passports in general with Labatt. It does seem they built some pretty good boats. Unfortunately, from an information gathering perspective, only 50 odd P42 were built so there's not a lot of them around.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Probably smaller than you're looking for but I see there's a 37' Tartan, 1980 S&S design, laying over in Auckland. Saw an advert for it in Practical Boat Owner.


----------



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I believe there is a _similar_ amount of interior volume on the Passport 40 as the Passport 42. Very different designs, however.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

labatt said:


> I believe there is a _similar_ amount of interior volume on the Passport 40 as the Passport 42. Very different designs, however.


P42 has smaller galley and better access into the aft main berth plus a separate quarter berth. Other than that interiors are similar in available space. Both have lots of storage space.

Simialr underwater shape, very different sterns.

One of the big differences is engine location. P42 donk is located under the galley floor whereas the P40 is at floor level in the main saloon, its cover forming part of the saloon table.

LaBatt, how does that engine location work for you ? I'd be a little worried about noise and heat however, I am not a great fan of engines in the bilges and for me this is the P42s great weakness. Yes its excellent as regards getting the weight down low but the potential for water ingress worries me.

Sway, that Tartan is sold. Yes a bit smaller than we wanted but I've always liked the Tartans of that era even though they were overly influenced by the IOR.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

That same issue of PBO had positive reports on the use of towed generators during the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers (ARC). Two of the Duo-Gens cited did suffer damage from underwater debri. One hit something large and broke it's drive shaft. The other struck something and the owner, an engineer(!), lamented that, had he brought any spare parts, in this case just a steel pin, he'd have been right back in business. No incidents of big fishies feeding.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> That same issue of PBO had positive reports on the use of towed generators during the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers (ARC). Two of the Duo-Gens cited did suffer damage from underwater debri. One hit something large and broke it's drive shaft. The other struck something and the owner, an engineer(!), lamented that, had he brought any spare parts, in this case just a steel pin, he'd have been right back in business. No incidents of big fishies feeding.


I had a look at the Ferris web site. (just google ferris marine). They look like a good thing and have an optional wind generator for when at anchor. Mind you having shared the odd anchorage with the odd wind generator I'd not encourage anyone to get one of the noisy bloody things.

Actually I wonder, does the noise come from the generator itself or is it caused by the steel blades? We often have to include ceiling fans when we do lighting layouts for our clients and metal fan blades are as noisy as all get out while timber blades are not. I'm presuming wind generators have metal blades, maybe timber would be better. ???

hmmm...did i just hijack my own thread ?? oh well.


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

tdw said:


> Sway, that Tartan is sold. Yes a bit smaller than we wanted but I've always liked the Tartans of that era even though they were overly influenced by the IOR.


Mind if I help hijack your tread, TDW? What makes the T37 a passagemaker and prevents the T34 from being one? I noticed on some "bluewater" thread that the T37 is in that category. T34? Not. I'm not terribly familiar with either, but I'm growing interested.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailhog said:


> Mind if I help hijack your tread, TDW? What makes the T37 a passagemaker and prevents the T34 from being one? I noticed on some "bluewater" thread that the T37 is in that category. T34? Not. I'm not terribly familiar with either, but I'm growing interested.


Feel free my porcine friend.

Personally I'd reckon the T34 of the same vintage would make a fine cruiser albeit lacking in cat swinging room for a couple of old farts like us. (I'd better hope a certain Ms Wombat doesn't read this thread or I'm dead meat). Twenty years back I'd have happily gone globe trotting in a T34. The T34 was also an S&S and a variation of that boat was sold in OZ as an S&S34. One Jon Sanders circumnavigated solo non stop in one. Suffer from a typical IOR malady in that they are only really any good off the wind with a kite. Cruising chutes (mps whatever) have made that less of a problem these days. IOR boats also tended to wander a fair bit when off the wind. Other negative of any IOR boat is the size of the genoa. Big main with small genoa is much easier for the shorthanded crew to handle.

Coming back on subject, it's one of the advantages of something like the P42 in that they are almost a genuine cutter with high cut genoa and self tacking jib on inner forestay. Almost the perfect setup for a couple or single hander. Also explains why ketches and to some extent schooners still hold some attraction for couples cruising.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

TD the Towed generator I bought is the Ferris, got the kit which includes spares. I didnt go with the wind option as it works out very poor Amps per dollar. If their figers are correct I shouldn't need to use the motor at all to charge the bats, I have been told by other owners of the ferris that they use it at night when their power consumption is at its peak and they have the fishing lines in. Solar Panels are koyerca (spelling?) 2 x 130W. should arrive in the next day or so.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Well, it looks like it's done and dusted. Updates to follow.

     

You know what they say, best two days of boat ownership are the day you buy her and day you sell her. (or was that marriage ?)


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Congrats, Fluffy!
It's been a strange journey, eh? Now the real work begins....but the fun too!


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Simon,
I for one will be expecting an exhaustive review of how that ferris towed generator works out for you. There's a dearth of information on them hereabouts. And, from what I've read, I think you made the right decision as far as effective amps provided is concerned.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Congratulations Womby....I want pictures..


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

That's it...hold us in suspense until we have to go to sleep you sick sadistic marsupial!!
Good luck with your new float whatever it is!!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Pics will follow. Try and get you something on the morrow.

To be honest I am little bit in awe of the thing right now. 42' and 25.000lbs feet is a lot of boat for me, Cam I have no idea how you handled a 52'er with just the two of you. Not so much the sailing, in fact the larger platform makes deck work a damn sight easier but docking and mooring a bigger boat is when the fun begins. 

My first keelboat was 22'. Bugger up your docking and you just jumped off her and manhandled her to where you wanted to be. Shoot, the fella I sold her too actually managed to put her up on a reef and all he did was to jump off and push. 28'er not much more difficult. On the one occasion I ran her aground I towed her off in the tender , rowing. 34'er not so easy but with a fin keel and no skeg she's as easy as parking a car. In fact when I last had Raven out of the water I reversed her down the channel from the slipway and all the way through the mooring field. No problemo. 42' ? It's now down to boathandling ability. Fingers crossed that I'm up to the job. 

There are going to be lots of questions posed. Radar ? What's that all about for heavens sake. Looks like TV for acidheads if you asked me. GPS plotter through a notebook ? Yoiks and away. All I have ever aspired to is a gps that tells me latt and long. Three bloody radios so now I have to learn how to operate ssb. Oh lordy, we've actually got a shower that hasn't got a toilet in it as well. Hot and cold running water. Cabins with doors. Eleven effing winches to be serviced. Oh I am soooo excited at the prospect of the first antifouling. 

Aw christ, I was all elated ten minutes ago, now I'm getting neurotic. 

hee hee.

Did I say getting ?

Anyone know where I can a pick up a good used Folkboat ?

I want my mummy.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Ha Ha He He...Womby has to go pee pee....  


Makes you feel like a kid on your first date again dosent it...


Dont ya just love life sometimes...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Stillraining said:


> Ha Ha He He...Womby has to go pee pee....
> 
> Makes you feel like a kid on your first date again dosent it...
> 
> Dont ya just love life sometimes...


The first date analogy is not far off it. High expectations, sweaty palms and a spreading damp patch.  But you cannot wait to go back for more.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I jumped from 24 to 41 so I can relate to your feelings very well indeed...sure I had/have a 30 power boat but not much similarity there...The power of a bigger boat is addicting to me...It will be hard to go back if I have to...The forces are so much greater but yet things happen slower and more predictably...I just love it.....and you will too I know it... I am very happy for you..



tdw said:


> The first date analogy is not far off it. High expectations, sweaty palms and a spreading damp patch.  But you cannot wait to go back for more.


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Hello Wombat,
looks like congratulations are in order. Well Done. I know how you feel about going to a bigger boat. First time I took the Cheiftan in at Holmepoint marina amongs the Multi multi million dollar boats I was absolutely pooping myself, actually so were the owners of the MMM boats  . I want pictures . Just a hint, when we bought the boat I took her out to where no one could see what I was doing went full bore then took her out of gear to see how long it takes 8 ton of boat to stop. Lets hope no million dollar boat is in front of me at the marina . I need at least a knot and a half for reasonable steerage but can now park her in some very very tight spots having worked out her prop walk and how she reverses.


Greg and Sue
Lake Macquarie
Aus


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Congratulation tdw,

You can handle it, just be patient and think ahead.






saying quietly to self.
Oh brother I'm glad I'm on the other side of the world.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Wombie...it is just a matter of getting used to the weight and the way she acts under throttle. You will find yourself needing to apply much more throttle than you are used to, BRIEFLY, to change directions or make low speed tight turns...but it will come together quickly for ya. 
Good times ahead...congrats!!


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

Congratulations Wombat! We want pics!


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Congratulations, see you soon. Well later in the year.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks all. Having a bit of camera to computer trouble but will post pics asap.

OzSailor, Cam, Rainman, you are all dead right. After we had spent some time out sailing on Sunday we pulled into a quiet bay and played with the engine. The old girl has been fitted with a feathering prop and although only my first experience I'm beginning to think they are a godsend. Really gives some serious bite when you hit reverse. 

I'm sure my trepidation would not have been so serious if, say, we'd moved from Raven to a lightish weight 42'er with similar handling characteristics but the new girl does feel to me like a small ship in comparison to Raven. 

Reality is that you make a decision like this based on what you want to use the boat for realising that some aspects of weekend sailing will no longer be on the agenda. The new girl is a boat to take out the heads and come back a couple of days/weeks/months later. Round the buoys is most definitely out unless we had a decent sized crew and/or removed the inner forestay. Tacking a big genoa around the inner is not something you want to do at every turning buoy in the harbour. I'm going to be very interested to see how she handles under high cut yankee and staysail. 

So now the real work has to begin. We are still subject to survey and I'm off to Europe on Saturday so a couple of weeks delay there but after that is done, what fun. First on the to do list is two new halyard winches and modified halyards to replace a couple of wire winches that are deck mounted. I think I prefer halyard winches to be on the mast or under the dodger but I'm leaning towards mast. Then new upholstery, covers, bimini and dodger to keep the Msuss happy. Have to haul her as well, She needs a scrub and paint and I suspect we will replace most of the through hulls while she is up. 

Not to forget that I also have to prepare Raven for sale. That is not going to be much fun. I feel guilty enough enough as it is. I really do hope that we can find a couple not dissimilar to us less twenty or so years.


----------



## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

Congrats Mr. Wombat,
The Oh my God what have I gotten myself into feeling is called buyers remorse
We have the same engine in our boat you will like it. very smooth.
And has been very reliable.
Must be nice to be able to back straight with the feathering prop.
Is this it.1987 Passport Sloop Boat For Sale


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Congrats on the new lady and hope that the future companion of past lady of yours finds the helm to guide her on her adventure...Full speed ahead


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Simon,
> I for one will be expecting an exhaustive review of how that ferris towed generator works out for you. There's a dearth of information on them hereabouts. And, from what I've read, I think you made the right decision as far as effective amps provided is concerned.


I will give a review on all my systems. I have just finished all the wiring and just some minor things to do like buy food. I think I will stay for the boat show Party Saturday night and cast off 1pm April 20th, slack water at the gate is 2.40pm ish.
Now Fluffy has a new toy I don't suppose he wants to join me for a sail in the south Pacific.  but who could blame him


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Congratulations! As someone who went from 10,000 to 30,000 lbs. displacement, I took a somewhat tentative approach to maneuvers at first, as well. May I suggest you find an isolated buoy, put out fender boards and try to "dock" and hold station in varying wind speeds and various parts of the boat facing said winds?

A bigger boat takes a lot to move her and a lot to stop her. I find I'm spending more time in neutral than anything else when I'm in close quarters with an unfavourable wind. Let inertia work for you by coasting in. This is determined by knowing in most conditions how far your boat will continue to move from dead slow to neutral. Mine's about six boat lengths in zero air on the nose. I simply cut thrust and aim (sound familiar?) and rarely at the slip, but to either side, crabbing in due to windage.

The feathering prop is a different thing in that there's a slight pause until it deploys (esp. when shifting and I hope you have a thrust bearing to preserve your transmission), but when it grips, it grips fiercely and makes stern-to dockings easier.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Val,
All true and good advice. It was a somewhat weird experience to take her for a sail first time without owner on board but it was pretty much all AOK except picking up the mooring. Ahem ,ugly probably describes it. No real problems but judging buoy position for pickup took a bit of practice. Thankfully she is quite responsive for a big old girl. Ms W noted that that the boathook was a bit shorter than she liked.......well I think she was talking about the boathook.  

Sorry about the lack of pics thus far but I've been using a new (to me) computer of late and the thing simply refuses to recognise my camera and I don't want to use the brokers pics as they were not involved in the sale , the boat was pulled from them before we made our offer. Nothing underhand, simply that this is a family thing. Brokers pics are their copyright, it would be pretty rude of me to use them, not to mention the legalities. 

Simon. Irrespective, my friend, of current situation if I can join you for a leg or two on your way back I will. Retirement is proving more elusive than I'd hoped and I find myself up to my fluffy bum in work right now. Not to mention boats. I'd really like to get some more sea miles under my belt and would much rather do that on a short handed cruiser. You have any idea on timing yet ?


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm hoping to cast of San Francisco 1pm Sunday 20th April Hit Marquesas mid May. That’s the plan so far I am waiting on the Australian Registration at the moment. I am in cruising mode so things happen when they happen and if they don't, well the alcohol is Dam cheap.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Simon-

Don't leave before you get your paperwork...  Getting through customs might be a bit tough in some of the countries along the way without it.  Don't want to read that some aussie got arrested for having a stolen boat.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

SD, to be honest If I missed the weather window for the crossing it would not be the end of the world. If I had to stay here for the summer I would fly home do the visits and father thing, then return do the Berkeley YC cruisers tours. Then the 2008 Baja ha ah and do the crossing 2009.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Sorry TDW I thought "Wombat seeks your opinion on a possible new wombat", meant that you had lost it and decided to add to your family. Now I see congratulations are in order.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chris_gee said:


> Sorry TDW I thought "Wombat seeks your opinion on a possible new wombat", meant that you had lost it and decided to add to your family. Now I see congratulations are in order.


It may be that it's the Ms W who seeks a new one. I'm merely making sure I've somewhere to live when she throws me out. 

Nah, I'm safe. She has crap taste in men and they don't come much crappier than yours truely.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Womby...am I going to have to buy you a new camera..


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, here we go at last. Sorted out the technical side of the pic posting but had to make sure all was cool to post.

As I think I explained before she is currently owned by Ms W's cousin and I didn't want to upset anyone by posting a pic before they had sorted out the broker.










Have to add that it's all still subject to survey so there is a faint possibility it could all fall over but I doubt it.

Erringhi, btw, means "Place of Wild Ducks". Why a Duck ? No idea. Ask Groucho.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Beautiful boat!

Possibly a STUPID question comin up....

but why are boats MORE expensive "down-under"?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

bfdtpkt said:


> Beautiful boat!
> 
> Possibly a STUPID question comin up....
> 
> but why are boats MORE expensive "down-under"?


Number of reasons I think.

Supply and demand. Their are simply not as many boats on the market down here.

Currency. Until recently the Oz dollar has been way below the US in value so a boat bought for say $100.000 in the US was costing $150.000 in Oz.

Tyranny of Distance. Oz is a long way from most other places so it costs a lot more to ship a new boat from Europe or the US than simply across the Atlantic. Even from Asia shipping costs are high to Oz as there is simply not the volume of traffic and the main ports (Sydney and Melbourne) are a fair way south.

Not such a throwaway society. While that has changed a lot in the last few years, traditionally things like second hand cars e.g. have always been more expensive down here than in Europe, the US and even Japan.

In case you are also wondering, we are not in the position at the moment (business stuff) to travel to the US , buy and then sail back so that was not an option.

Oh yes, I should add that it's not always the case. If we had bought her in the US and had her shipped back home it would have cost us more than what we have ended up paying for her.


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

fuzzy,
very nice. congrats on the purchase, but did I miss something?
I have not found or seen in the thread, What it is,........... so, What is it?

Passport 42?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailortjk1 said:


> fuzzy,
> very nice. congrats on the purchase, but did I miss something?
> I have not found or seen in the thread, What it is,........... so, What is it?
> 
> Passport 42?


Spot on. Passport 42 indeed. She's been sitting on a mooring for the past 12 months and needs some serious TLC but her bones are good plus rig and engine are nearly brand new. OTOH dodger is completely shot and upolstery down below is woeful.

Memo to anyone selling a boat - make it pretty. That's all the punters seem to really care about.


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

tdw said:


> Spot on. Passport 42 indeed. She's been sitting on a mooring for the past 12 months and needs some serious TLC but her bones are good plus rig and engine are nearly brand new. OTOH dodger is completely shot and upolstery down below is woeful.
> 
> Memo to anyone selling a boat - make it pretty. That's all the punters seem to really care about.


You'll have it up in no time - congrats on the soon to be purchase. And yep - its amazing how many boats that I looked at, no effort there and yet asking premium dollar...especially the interior - its like cleaning house, plenty of ways to make old look decent...


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

tdw said:


> Sorry about the lack of pics thus far but I've been using a new (to me) computer of late and the thing simply refuses to recognise my camera and ?


have you been to council bluffs lately? I think we need to check your passport (the one you got from the govt!)

Congrats on your new boat. I'm still shopping. Think I'm buying the next boat I see, or never buying anything.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

bfdtpkt said:


> Beautiful boat!
> 
> Possibly a STUPID question comin up....
> 
> but why are boats MORE expensive "down-under"?


Well that is kind of a foolish question. You can't make just any old cheap boat, like your basic Catalina, float upside down much less sail that way. One would have thought that rather obvious. (g)


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice boat fuzzy, congratulations.


----------



## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Is that a jib boom on the baby stay? Self-tacking?


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Good on yer, Wombat. Will your hammock fit as-is, or will it require modification?


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Hello Wombat,
so how did the survey go. Where are you going to moor her, more importantly when are you coming up to Lake Macquarie and try her out against a real boat . Sue and I have some time off at the end of April and just deciding wether to go south or noth. Port Stephens is looking good but with a bit of an arm twist we may go south.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Oz...our resident marsupial is in Portugal at the moment.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Or so Gui says... he may have already fed the poor marsupial to the sharks.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I think Giu hired a stand-in to pose as TDW. You can spot the real TD Wombat scurrying about in the right hand corner of this photo . . .


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Or so Gui says... he may have already fed the poor marsupial to the sharks.


Actually...you're wrong...this is what we did all day long today...here is the Wombie boy for you...


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

That's a great shot, very nice composition. It's obvious that TD was having fun at the helm.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Are you feeding him to the sharks tomorrow???   Nice photo...can't tell its a fat boat at all from that one. 


Giulietta said:


> Actually...you're wrong...this is what we did all day long today...here is the Wombie boy for you...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ozsailer said:


> Hello Wombat,
> so how did the survey go. Where are you going to moor her, more importantly when are you coming up to Lake Macquarie and try her out against a real boat . Sue and I have some time off at the end of April and just deciding wether to go south or noth. Port Stephens is looking good but with a bit of an arm twist we may go south.


Just to update you on that. As mentioned I have been away and simply ran out of time to complete purchase before I went.

Organising survey for next week but to be honest that is for insurance purposes unless a really huge problem appears.

We'll than be in refit mode for a few weeks at least. She needs all new covers, the dodger is literally disintegrating, the upholstery below is disgusting, it has to be replaced (twenty year old velour and cushions that have no substance left in them), then either a couple of new halyard winches or at least major service. Getting away April/May is really not on the cards unfortunately.

I'll keep you updated. LM and/or PS will be top of the list for a shakedown cruise.

ps - she will remain up at Pittwater until basic work is complete and we have sold Raven then I'd think we will bring her back to Balmain. While leaving her permanently in Pittwater is tempting the convenience of having her five minutes from home will probably be the clincher.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

OK Womby...You mentioned in another thread you have been gone sailing...On your new Boat? we want the details...


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Stillraining said:


> OK Womby...You mentioned in another thread you have been gone sailing...On your new Boat? we want the details...


Its featured in next month's National Geographic...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I tell you what, this is turning into a saga as long as War and Peace. Next time I do this I ain't tellin' nobody till the papers are in my furry little paw. 

Shall we say it progresses. I was away as you all know and that slowed things down, then the yard has had an 80'er hogging their slipway so we've been unable to get her slipped for survey. Maybe next week, fingers crossed.

When I said on Saturday I was going sailing I was referring to Raven. 

A 34' steel sloop of Van de Stadt design is looking very nice right now.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks for the update ...Benn thinking about ya...no more pestering from me...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

For any of you still interested...........heavens even I'm getting bored with this saga......

We had her up for survey last week. Raised possibly more questions than it answered but it stills looks promising.

The good news was that the surveyer reckons she is a great boat let down by poor maintenance which has created a few problems none of which are insurmountable.

We knew the teak decks were in poor shade but surveyer found more bad than good. Currently in negotiation with owner to determine how much compensation towards new decking they are prepared to pay. Good news was that surveyer found no sogginess in the core. As there are no internal leaks I though this would be the case but I'm happy that it was confirmed. This is potentially the most problematic area for us to agree on. How much of the deck problem is attributable to fair wear and tear ?

Worst news for the owner was that the surveyer condemned the fuel tanks. I'm glad he did as they are the original iron tanks and I'd much rather get 'em out and have them replaced with stainless. Owner will have to pay most of the cost but we will pay difference between new iron tanks and new stainless , also I want to go from two large tanks to two medium and one small so we will pay for the extra work. For us this is all good.

Best news was that surveyer more than happy with rig, engine and interior also very happy with hull, rudder, rudder stock, prop shaft etc etc. 

Bit of argey bargey to come over some minor issues but we will work it out I think. 

Nice hull btw. To my mind lovely lines. Classic fin and skeg underwater. I'll try and post a pic when I get the JPegs from the surveyer. He only sent me hard copies not the digitals.


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks for the update; I'm happy for you that things may move forward!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks for the update Fuzzy.  Good luck with further negotiations...


----------



## Insails (Sep 6, 2006)

Does he really want all that fur sticking to the amount of varnish it will take???)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

No one said Fuzzy was bright....   


Insails said:


> Does he really want all that fur sticking to the amount of varnish it will take???)


----------



## Insails (Sep 6, 2006)

he could just oil everything and be a greasy wombat!)


----------



## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

I expect our wily wombat will come up smelling of roses and not varnish or teak oil.


----------



## sctpc (Jun 23, 2008)

Hay tdw just bring up your thread as I ant heard whats happend or seen any photo`s yet.


----------

