# Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift



## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

Hello!

After growing up in the midwest and 20 years of sporadic trying, with some minimal experience (ASA 101, occasional charter), I finally got a place on the water and picked up my first sailboat--a Seaward 22. I plan to sail a lot this summer to sharpen some skills, and then move to a larger boat. Eventually we'd like to cruise to the Caribbean or Cuba for the winters.

The dock sticks out into the Pamlico Sound. I had a great day of sailing yesterday, and then tied her up, and --wow. It seems like that boat is really getting treated roughly. Since I can't upload video here, I've uploaded a video of this to youtube, at this link:

_Well heck. Can't upload the link until I have 10 posts. I went around looking for places to post but don't really feel like I have a lot to add yet so they would be a little odd.....guess I'll have to do with without the video for now....._

It's like this at the dock about one-third of the time here, with the remainder split between dead calm and then occasionally worse than this. It makes me pretty concerned to see the boat taking this kind of shaking. So my questions are:

1. Am I just showing my inexperience and sailboats are made for this?, or, should I get it out of there quickly because I'm destroying the boat? Probably somewhere in between.

2. Is there a good resource for best ways to tie her up for chop like this? The dock has posts on both side and I have her tied up so that she clears the dock side by at least 2' foot (and 6' on the post side), so I feel comfortable she's not going to hit anything solid. But are the cleats and the mast stays, etc. built to withstand this?

3. At the end of the video I show a shot of the boat lift. It was built for a larger power boat than this sail boat. This sailboat has a very stubby (<20") keel. I'm wondering if I can't just modify the lift and hike the boat up on it. Any thoughts about a sailboat on a lift?

I greatly appreciate any insight---I don't want to damage the boat, but also don't want to over-react and put her in a marina and have to drive to sail after only a couple of days.

I'm looking forward to getting this sailing journey started after a couple of decades of pining for the sea, and to participating in this great community!

Thanks! Rich


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

Put the link in plain text.. ie youtube/file/etc dot com. It's not coming up in a generic search.

If you are able to string the boat in such a way that it is not hitting the dock, it's probably alright but you'll need to worry about chafe wearing through the dock lines with all that motion. Also make sure you have Nylon (read 'stretchy') docklines.

Protect the docklines in the chocks and across the rails with slit hoses or some sort of padding that will protect both the boat and the lines.

Double up your lines on the 'bad days'.

Look into Mooring whips.. your boat may be small enough to make use of those but if I've understood your situation you may not need them.

Very likely the boat lift can be modified if there's no interference with the rig.. I'd certainly look into that.


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## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

The video is at: youtube dot com/watch?v=juYu6_6N4Bs

Actually, the "tearing the boat apart" was not as alarmist as I thought. I decided I didn't have tolerance for watching it out there (just watching the beating the gear at the top of the mast was taking was bad enough...). Last week I decided I needed a snug harbor and went around the corner and paid for a nice slip in a very calm creek. Literally right when I came back, I looked out to see that the bottom attachment on the rudder had broken loose, and and I got to the end of the dock just in time to catch it before the top bracket sheared off as well. Lucky, because as my boat lift mechanic noted, once something falls in these rough waters it's just gone.

Anyway, pulled it and took it to the repair shop--good excuse to have the bottom painted and electronics added anyway.

But thanks for the advice. Before giving up I got some new nylon lines and four snubbers, so if I did choose to keep it at home a night I can tie it up pretty nicely.

Thanks!


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## Skyeterrier (Feb 11, 2016)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

Here is your video:






It appears you don't have fenders on the side of your boat that is next to the dock, you should get some. Those are those air filled things, some cylindrical, some big balls, that you can tie to your rail, stanchions or life lines and hang so they squeeze between your boat and the dock and prevent the worst impact.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

If that's normal and it's sometimes worse, I suspect chafing through a dockline is inevitable. As Faster said, they need to be protected by anti-chafe gear at a minimum. I would get the lift modified (if necessary) to haul the boat up.

Getting her into the lift, with that kind of swell, won't be fun. I've never had a lift, but I've been in and out of a buddy's. The process in any kind of swell or cross wind/current, is rather inelegant. More like stuffing a sausage, you just shove it in there.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

Wow.. pretty open exposed situation.

The lift may not be able to accommodate the draft unless the boat is a flat bottomed CB style.

In any event you now have a slip, plus the option of 'bringing her home' in appropriate weather.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

If you want to keep the boat there, I would consider a mooring. You could keep a small dinghy on top of the dock to get you back and forth.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

JimsCAL said:


> If you want to keep the boat there, I would consider a mooring. You could keep a small dinghy on top of the dock to get you back and forth.


That sounds like a great idea. A mooring ball right off your dock would be a great option. I would be sure and set up a system with a bilge pump attached to its own battery and a small solar charger on deck to make sure that, if your boat ever springs a leak, you don't come and find it sitting at the bottom with nothing but a mast sticking out of the water.

I know a guy who got a call from The Neighbors at his lake house to inform him that his ski boat was submerged at his Mooring. It had a wooden transom that rotted out and it just sank one day.


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## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

As noted, the point is moot because of the calm slip I secured. But the fender question is valid---I have several in the boat, but the dock (and if seems like most docks around the Pamlico Sound and River), have posts outside of the dock deck--so the posts are the first thing that would hit the boat, and a fender wouldn't prevent it.

I didn't use the fenders here because I had the boat tied a couple of feet off of the dock with the posts, and because they would not have hit the posts anyway. I am wondering if anyone has a good solution to this outward post issue, that seems to make fenders useless, because where I pull up to get gas and at my favorite restaurant up the ICW, I have the same issue---fenders seem irrelevant because the boat will hit the post regardless.

Cheers, Rich


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## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

That was the deciding factor---I put the motor boat on the lift and it was a bit of a nightmare if the waves are up---no way I want to try with a modified lift and sailboat (though the Seaward is awesome with a 24" keel the length of the bottom of the boat).

Hey--I wanted open water when I was looking for a place---be careful what you ask for! But now that I've got it solved, I'm looking forward to weekend trips to Manteo and Ocracoke--I'd love to hear from anyone with suggestions for those destinations, or Oriental, just down the ICW a bit.

Thanks! Rich


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

richdeming said:


> ...... But the fender question is valid---I have several in the boat, but the dock hass posts outside of the dock deck--so the posts are the first thing that would hit the boat, and a fender wouldn't prevent it.
> 
> ...this outward post issue, that seems to make fenders useless,...
> Cheers, Rich


Fenders come in different sizes. Get some that are bigger in diameter than the posts. At your own dock, you can put bumper pads an the posts.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*



richdeming said:


> ......I am wondering if anyone has a good solution to this outward post issue, that seems to make fenders useless, because where I pull up to get gas and at my favorite restaurant up the ICW, I have the same issue---fenders seem irrelevant because the boat will hit the post regardless....


The solution is a fender board.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/news/build_your_own_fender_boards-10681-1.html


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## cloudwarmer (Sep 14, 2011)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*



richdeming said:


> The video is at: youtube dot com/watch?v=juYu6_6N4Bs
> 
> SNIP. . . the bottom attachment on the rudder had broken loose, and and I got to the end of the dock just in time to catch it before the top bracket sheared off as well. . . SNIP


In the video I see that your rudder is flopping around, which is why it was damaged. BTDT. I began securing my tiller to one side to limit rudder movement.

Hope the new, calm, slip works out.

All the best. . .


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

From your description it sounds like you are the north side of the Pamlico River, sticking right out in it. Its a beautiful place, but your dock will be hammered in the predominantly SW winds from spring through early fall. This weekend was a perfect example, and your video shows it.

If it were me, I'd enjoy the view but find a protected place to keep the boat.

_edit ... ahh I see that you have already. Right on._

As others have said, do secure the tiller (and the wheel when you get that larger boat) anytime you secure the boat. Even in your new protected slip, I believe its good practice to lock down the rudder when you are not underway, at anchor or at the dock.

you are in a great place to sail! It's a fun trip to sail down to Oriental from where you are. You can tie up at either of the free docks, anchor in the harbor, or get a slip. The free docks feature free pump out (when its working) and bathrooms. its a long day from wades point though ... 40 miles?

Ocrackoke also very fun, also around 40 miles. At ocracoke tie up at the park service docks (not free but have power and bathrooms). Or anchor out, or get a slip at the marina if you'll want showers. plan on a long weekend. rent a bike. visit the museum, the lighthouse, springer point, the horses. great fun.

Ditto Manteo, although I havent been there in years. many years ... but now you have me thinking ...

And closer trips for you, Bellhaven, Washington, Bath.

and lots of beautiful desolate anchorages if thats your thing.


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## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

I love that fender board---hadn't seen one in my limited time around marinas. Next project in the shop!

I am curious why most piers/dock out here at the inner banks are built this way. Most of my experience around water was around FL, and I don't remember this problem.


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## richdeming (May 28, 2017)

*Re: Just joined, already have a question about tie-offs in rough water & using a lift*

Thanks for the advice! I guess my intuition was wrong on that tiller issue (noticed two suggestions that it be tied off). The wave pressure was coming so hard from one side or the other (estuary, goes hard one way and then the other), that I was afraid tying it off would put it under even more strain. Oh, well, as noted, moot point since we decided to move it to a calm slip, though I will start tying it off there.

Speaking of Belhaven, we are getting ready to get in the boat now to sail over for the 4th of July parade and a party. If anyone is cruising down the ICW, and would like a nice break, I can't recommend Belhaven enough. There is a restaurant there that easily compares with the best in NC (yes, even the Chef & Farmer in Kinston, which is the rage now because of the Chef's Life PBS show). spoonrivernc.com It's a block from the town marina along with a lot of other shops and restaurants. I was shocked to find it in the middle of nowhere when I moved here. Two other marinas with supplies, and at the local grocery store--a mile or so from the marina, the manager surprised us the other day by approaching and asking if we cruised in, because he always gives people from the marina a ride back. Very boater friendly place. Just check the hours--Mon-Thursday mid-day it's a bit desolate.

Last question--if you were going to sail down to Oriental, would you go by ICW or around the Sound? Been looking at day trips and the ICW looks nice and wide but I'm not familiar with the niceties of sailing on it. Thanks!


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