# Hello everyone, info on bottom paint for a gulf 29 pilothouse sailboat



## wetsu82 (Nov 16, 2021)

I recently purchase this 29 foot sailboat and this early spring plan on getting it out of the water to paint the bottom...Any ideas on amount of paint I need to get and a good not overly expensive bottom paint? Thanks.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Here's my theory of bottom paint.
It's a necessary evil which is not environmentally friendly. Some yards don't even allow owners to do their own bottoms.
Anti fouling paints are not terribly effective unfortunately..

What you might consider is inexpensive hard paint and diving regularly / frequently to scrub the bottom. Racers scrub their bottoms and are no relying on bottom paint. Hauling and painting a boat is quite expensive and actually providing not much protection from fouling.

The frequency of bottom scrubbing depends on the water where the boat is kept. Some areas are very foul. Give a diver some work instead of a boat yard.


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## wetsu82 (Nov 16, 2021)

That sounds like a good idea, supposedly it was pressure washed last summer can you recommend an inexpensive hard paint? I got flippers mask and snorkel. I really like that idea...


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

The antifouling paint that works best depends on where you are. Salinity, water temperature, effluents... all have impacts. Ask around to see what your neighbors in the harbor are using. Something that's inexpensive may or may not work. If an expensive paint works, it ends up being less expensive than a cheap paint that doesn't.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

Some information for you:
There are different paints for fresh water, salt water, cold water, warm water. There are paints that can't be applied over other paints. There are paints that are best at stopping fouling, paints that provide the fastest speeds, paints that last a long time, paints that last one year, paints that work when boats are repeatedly hauled and launched and paints that only work if the boat never comes out of the water.

Where is your boat now? From your statement "this early spring plan on getting it out of the water to paint the bottom " I assume the boat is currently in the water. Note that if the boat will be sitting all winter you may need a significant amount of work before the bottom is ready to paint. Or, you may just need a powerwash and then fresh paint.

I suggest you do some research on the Pettit paint site:




__





Pettit | Antifouling Paint






www.pettitpaint.com





or the interlux site


https://www.interlux.com/en/us/boat-paint/antifouling



Good luck,
Barry


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## wetsu82 (Nov 16, 2021)

BarryL said:


> Hello,
> 
> Some information for you:
> There are different paints for fresh water, salt water, cold water, warm water. There are paints that can't be applied over other paints. There are paints that are best at stopping fouling, paints that provide the fastest speeds, paints that last a long time, paints that last one year, paints that work when boats are repeatedly hauled and launched and paints that only work if the boat never comes out of the water.
> ...


Hancock Marina at Cherry Point NC


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## The Coney Island Kid (Nov 16, 2020)

5 Quarts should give you two coats.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

Hey wetsu, I saw your reference to "flippers, mask and snorkel", in the context that you will scrub the bottom yourself. Great idea, but, imho, will be more exhausting with the equipment you listed. For much of the "scrubbing", you will be holding your breadth, and your body will need to share the oxygen between exertion of muscles to scrub/maintain buoyancy, and other organs to stay alive. It will take you longer, exhaust you faster and could make for a somewhat uncomfortable experience, unless you are well versed in extended breathing techniques.

How about another idea? Buy a "surface based air compressor"? You can get a brand-new small sized for less than $500 new. If you think you will ever be in clear waters with colorful coral and marine life below, you might want to get a larger unit that will supply air to diver(s) down to 50 feet depths. The compressors are either electric or gasoline powered (2.5-5 HP) and will supply air to 1-4 hoses. The hoses can be 50+ feet, giving you lots of slack to maneuver around your hull, or around your prop if you ever get anything tangled. If you have the time, take a scuba course. If you don't have the time, at the very least, spend a couple/few hours with a scuba instructor, learning how to use your unit. If you have the basic snorkel equipment, I assume you are a moderately strong swimmer. If you are a weak swimmer, I would not attempt scrubbing your hull until you have improved your swimming skills and endurance (3x /week at the pool at the Y, doing laps, or take a few lessons to ramp-up).

I used to own one, and they are fairly easy to use, but I was already scuba certified, so that made it much easier. I would recommend getting a gas unit, so you can use the unit away from the marina (unless your boat will have 110 volt electric available). The gas engines are not much more than a lawn mower engine with a compressor bolted on. Most also come with a truck tire inner-tube that holds the unit floating. They will run all afternoon on a couple gallons of gas. IMHO, much easier than scuba tanks, which need to be refilled, and, if scrubbing your hull, may not last long enough to scrub your entire hull, so you'll be dragging 1-2 tanks back and forth from your slip to the dive shop to re-fill. 

Think about it, PM me if you have any specific questions about the units. The popular brand names: Snuba, Brownie's Third Lung, Hookah, Super Snorkel.

Good luck.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I agree with most of what Overdue says with the exception of the price. A good quality hookah system will run $1225.00 for a small unit with a Thompson pump. I use the one from J. Sink called the Airline. You will definitely need weights to counter your buoyancy, without them you will expend way too much precious energy even with the hookah. The J.Sink package comes with a weight belt but no weights which will add another 100 bucks or so depending on how fat or slim you are. All in expect to have around $1600 bucks minimum investment. You'll need a wetsuit, maybe 2. I tried to get by with just one by using a 3mm but it really is not enough for North Florida winter water temps and a 4/3 is too much for summer water temps. The other alternative is to simply hire a diver to clean the bottom on a monthly basis. $50-$75 a month common here for a 30-35 foot boat. Takes a good while to break even being a DIY bottom cleaner but at least you'll know how well it's being done and as a plus the hookah comes in handy for other things as well.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

Contra, thanks for the endorsement and I agree that extra funds should be budgeted for wetsuit, gloves, BC, headset-flashlight & weight belt (in FLA, pawn shops/craigslist/flea market for wayyy less than full retail). I personally would rather have a more powerful unit capable of serving 2 divers to at least 30 feet. My unit was a Super Snorkel brand with a Honda 5.5 HP gas engine, came with 4 hoses, truck tire inner-tube, and hard plastic clam-shell storage/travel case. The Honda engine was very reliable and seemed bullet-proof. 

However, if one is resolved to just hull work, alone, only 1 diver, and maybe also wanting something small and easy to stow, a new one can be had from ebay, 12V DC (not 110 volt) including hose and regulator for $389, search at ebay:

*Diving Sports Air Compressor 12V Oil-less Hookah W/Hose+Regulator Direct Breath*


Interesting video illustration, including underwater video of a guy cleaning his hull and prop. HOWEVER, I personally would never use a compressor that was not designed for human lungs (I believe the difference is addition of filters, to protect the air being inhaled from toxic particles). The guy in the Youtube video feels safe, but I would not.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Couple of thoughts to good input above.

If you've never cleaned a hull before, you should give it a go, before you decide that's your plan. It's remarkably exhausting. However, if you did so routinely, I'm sure you'd develop techniques to be most efficient.

Hookah is a great idea, but I seriously struggle with the idea of gas powered. Carbon monoxide at depth is quickly toxic. I'd worry about intake all the time, although, I understand many use them safely. Electric hookah or scuba would be my preference. You can also run a long hose, from a scuba tank secured to the deck.

Professional hull divers make their own setups. However, I'd be very, very cautious. Lung diseases notoriously take decades to manifest themselves from minuscule particles that contaminate lung tissue (ie asbestos and cigarettes). I've heard many say they've been using their homebrew hookah for decades, without reaction, but that's just not convincing. Any smoker could say the same. Proper filtration and air supply is critical. 

Any bottom paint will also need some hull cleaning. Especially, if the boat sits for long periods of time. Light users and even long term cruisers often have their boats sit at the slip or anchor for weeks, or more, at a time. Moving helps slough off light growth, before it gets difficult. The truth is, almost everyone needs both an effective paint and an occasional hull cleaning. If you don't clean frequently enough, you or the diver will need to be more aggressive and end up removing more paint, while cleaning. 

I did the "hull diver only - no paint" for one season, when we first bought a prior boat. We are not in a particularly bad growth area. Spring is light, July and Aug are the heavy months, and then it starts to taper off again. It was easy to keep up in Spring. By mid summer, it was truly a farm, after just a couple of weeks. Notable impact on speed and looked awful, even from the dock. I can't imagine it working well anywhere growth was more significant, which is generally further south.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

Good input Minnewaska. Carbon monoxide is always an issue, even for some reckless dive shops refilling tanks. My Super Snorkel unit (and probably the same with other manufacturers of gas-powered units) incorporated a vertical PVC pipe" connected to the air intake, to keep it away from the engine exhaust.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

wetsu82 said:


> I recently purchase this 29 foot sailboat and this early spring plan on getting it out of the water to paint the bottom...Any ideas on amount of paint I need to get and a good not overly expensive bottom paint? Thanks.


Practical Sailor runs tests an articles that are helpful. Where you're located can affect paint performance.


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## Conner (Oct 20, 2021)

wetsu82 said:


> I recently purchase this 29 foot sailboat and this early spring plan on getting it out of the water to paint the bottom...Any ideas on amount of paint I need to get and a good not overly expensive bottom paint? Thanks.


If it’s barnacles and organisms attaching to your bottom. Whatever bottom paint you choose. Give them something they don’t like and will keep them from attaching to your boat twice as long. Mix approximately 1lb of cayenne red pepper to every gallon of paint. It works


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Myth Busted........ Stands to reason. After all these years, you wouldn't have to add it oneself, if it actually worked.

*



Spicy Experiment

Click to expand...

*


> In November 2007, we enlisted one of our test boats, a Cape Dory 25 in Sarasota, Fla., to find out whether there is any validity to the old salt’s tale that adding cayenne pepper to bottom paint increases its antifouling ability. Now, nearly a year later, we can call this myth busted.
> The Cape Dory—daysailed several times a week, cruised occasionally, and kept on a mooring in the warm waters of Sarasota Bay—was a prime test platform for the experiment. Testers applied Interlux Bottomkote alone to the boat’s port bow and starboard after sections. Bottomkote mixed with a large amount of cayenne pepper was applied to the boat’s starboard bow and aft port quarters. The bottom was cleaned in the water every three to six weeks and was hauled for a serious scrubbing in late April 2008.
> After 10 months, testers noted no difference in growth between the sections with and without cayenne. There was an even distribution of some hard growth and considerable soft growth.
> One notable drawback to adding pepper to your bottom paint is the bumpy texture. A spicy bottom, it seems, can be a drag.











Checking In With the Test-Boat Fleet - Practical Sailor


Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.




www.practical-sailor.com


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

As usual, tons of bad information being passed along here by people who think they know what they're talking about. Not surprising, unfortunately. To the OP, if you still have any questions about anti fouling paint, hookahs and in-water hull cleaning (and based on the bad dope you've received here, you should), let me know. Twenty seven years as a professional hull diver here, all done on hookah.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Fstbttms said:


> As usual, tons of bad information being passed along here by people who think they know what they're talking about. Not surprising, unfortunately. To the OP, if you still have any questions about anti fouling paint, hookahs and in-water hull cleaning (and based on the bad dope you've received here, you should), let me know. Twenty seven years as a professional hull diver here, all done on hookah.


Bottoms, @Fstbttms 
If you think that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread, please provide additional information. There is no doubt that you bring a lot experience to a discussion like this and it would be very useful to expand on your comment in the public forum since the posts that you think are erroneous were made on the public forum. 

Jeff


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Jeez, the whole reason I asked the OP to DM me if he had any questions was because I didn’t have the time to get into a lengthy discussion here. But since an admin is calling me out (and gee, I wonder which contributer to this thread who got his panties into enough of a bunch to repeatedly message me last night is responsible for that?), guess I’ll have to respond. So here goes:

*1.- Cheap anti fouling paints are a good alternative to high quality paint*.

Almost universally not the case. Cheap paints perform worse, require more effort to clean and do not last as long as their more expensive counterparts. “You get what you pay for” is a truism here.

*2.- Racers do not use or rely upon anti fouling paint.*

Of course they do. And those who are the least bit serious do not cheap-out on it. And they have frequent in-water cleanings on top of that.

*3.- You should only use a hookah based on an air compressor designed to provide breathing air.*

Such a hookah does not exist, certainly not at the recreational level. Every hookah you can buy or build is going to use a compressor that was originally intended for another purpose. There are no “breathing air” air compressors.

*4.- DIY hookahs are unsafe to use.*

Not universally true. For over two decades I have been earning my living with hookahs that I assembled myself and every one of them uses the exact same components found in the highest quality, commercially available units. And anybody else could do the same.

*5.- Adding pepper to your anti fouling paint will increase it effectiveness.*

There is ZERO evidence that this is true. It is 100% an unproven wives’ tale.

If anybody is interested, I can expound at length on any of the above issues. And a couple of very minor corrections: Innovative Industries (referenced several times in the thread) has been defunct for the better part of twenty years. Anybody looking for them will be disappointed. And the “Thompson” line of compressors mentioned above is actually the Thomas brand. But (as of this year) they also no longer produce either 110-volt or gas-powered compressors suitable for use in hookah rigs.

All that said, having now closely re-read each post in this thread, there is actually a fair amount of information regarding anti fouling paints (and even hookas) that is spot-on, something that I find refreshing and worthy of mention. In retrospect, perhaps my issues with it need not have been aired.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

Interesting, thanks for taking the time Bottoms, and sharing your knowledge and experience.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Bottoms,

Thank you for replying. That is helpful to understanding where your concerns lie. I will note that my post was made with my Moderator hat still on its peg. Your post raised questions that I thought might represent an important safety message, and so I asked the question myself. While the moderators were aware of your post, my response was simply my own curiosity 

Jeff


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I used the usual from the name brands and they are all the same level of ineffectiveness. The best approach is to have a diver regularly scrub your boat's bottom.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

SanderO said:


> I used the usual from the name brands and they are all the same level of ineffectiveness.


Well, I have cleaned between 30,000 and 40,000 boat bottoms in my time and in my experience, all anti fouling paints are *not* the same. Not by a long shot.



SanderO said:


> The best approach is to have a diver regularly scrub your boat's bottom.


Regular in-water hull cleaning is a necessary part of boat maintenance regardless of which anti fouling paint you use.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Fstbttms said:


> Well, I have cleaned between 30,000 and 40,000 boat bottoms in my time and in my experience, all anti fouling paints are *not* the same. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Regular in-water hull cleaning is a necessary part of boat maintenance regardless of which anti fouling paint you use.


I can only report my experience and I haven't noticed any difference between Petit and Interlux bottoms. My sense is that the area where I moor is getting more foul with marine growth in general. Boats in the yard use different brands. Without any controls it's hard to know.


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