# The Live aboard dream right out of college?



## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

Hello Everybody, I just wanted to ask a couple questions. 

I'm 19 years old, I live in North Carolina, I'm a Combat Medic in the North Carolina National Guard. My dream has always been a transcontinental cruise, particularly spending time in Greece, Japan, India, and South America. I joined the NCARNG so that I could begin my career as an Emergency Medical Professional, and save some money. 
My questions begin in the vague planning of my time abroad. I really can't afford an eccentric plan with a yacht and 4 star restaurants on every continent, however I want to be able to do it without being miserable. So my first question is, what's the least expensive way to begin living aboard? Even if I were docked and living on a boat, I would rather be living on a boat off the coast of North Carolina than in an apartment. So is it realistic to consider calling docks about basically repossessed boats? Or would it be less expensive to consider using my time as a soldier to slowly construct my own cruiser? Perhaps just a used boat? Thank you so much for all your input!

Also, what is a good minimum size for a global cruiser for 2 occupants? 30' ?


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Welcome skyreep!

First, brace yourself for the responses. I'll say upfront, don't take them personally. That's all for now.

What is your sailing experience? That will help us answer.


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

Ahh well, I do have some sailing experience although there's always more to learn. I grew up spending summers in Murrells Inlet SC and took our pontoon boat out daily. As far as sailing, I took a relatively short trip to the Caribbean on a 30' (I believe) sailboat with some older friends from the Marina when I was 17 and learned some along the way. Obviously I'm far from experienced but I understand that the romanticism of sailing is nothing compared to the hardships. My questions are not "can I live on the hook" because I know it's possible and improbable. My question is, if I am going to UNC Wilmington and don't want to live in an apartment, what's the best way to go about finding a cruiser inexpensively that is capable of transcontinental?


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

There are lots of variables wrapped up in your goal. It's possible, but probably not as easy as you hope. There are multiple threads in this forum from kids who want to do exactly what you want. I wish one would come back and let us know how it went, if they even followed through past posting the message.

First you'll want to identify marinas in your area that even allow liveaboards. Not all do and it's not like you can always rent a slip and then just live on your boat at the slip. Well, you could, but management will get wise to it before long. Liveaboards use the marina facilities differently than seasonal or transient slipholders.

As for the boat, my suggestion, since it sounds like funds are dear, is to purchase a coastal cruising boat. It is less expensive than an offshore boat and if you're still in school, the offshore part won't happen for a couple of years. A coastal cruising boat would allow you to sail where you are located as well as live on board. I won't get into specific brands. Others will I'm sure and it's always a contentious topic.

The size will depend on what you are comfortable sailing and how much space the two of you are comfortable living in.

You should figure out your budget. The more you can spend on a boat that is not a project boat, the better. Project boats will eat up all your spare time fixing the boat rather than sailing. They are also expensive if you can't do the repairs yourself. There will always be something you can't do yourself. In the end, you probably could have purchased a "sail away" boat.

Also included in your budget thoughts should be the cost of the marina. Depending on the economy in your area, it may or may not be less expensive than a small apartment (and the small apartment would give you more room).

Before you think more about heading off to points unknown (or up the coast for that matter), I heartily suggest that you get some sail training and classroom instruction so you can learn your legal responsibilities, required equipment, navigation, rules of the road, etc. 

I've forgotten a ton of things, I'm sure, but others will fill in the gaps. And of course there will be those who only post "Just DO IT!" which is always helpful.

Good luck!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

There is some good information in this thread (and a link to another related thread)

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailnet-faqs/84633-how-live-aboard-possible.html


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

Thank you very much, of course, I am one of those kids with big dreams but I try to be as realistic as possible. I really just prefer living as an oddball I spose. I spent my first two year out of High School in a hand built cabin experimenting with the whole "Self-sufficiency" game and although extremely self-gratifying it was a difficult one and one that's not very feasible with college, and monthly drill obligations at the other end of the state. Frankly, my plans are to (hopefully) figure out a live-aboard scenario until I finish up at stint with the military and can proceed in global endeavors. 

When I was younger I had dreams of building my own cruiser but I believe that idea has set sail. I won't be jumping into anything too terribly soon as I have training until February of next year and then I would need to work on hunting down a coastal job before renting a slip. 

Is the idea of finding an impounded boat for a couple thousand feasible? The savings are good to go, with more than enough, and Basic and AIT will give me $9,000 ish. But of course, I'd rather not spend all of that.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Here on the Chesapeake decent, sail-away condition boats are auctioned each year at the maritime museums. You might try googling maritime museums, charitable boating organizations in your area. Often boats are donated to those places so they can sell the boats and keep the proceeds. I remember last year someone posting that a Hunter 30 was auctioned for a couple thousand dollars.

Very infrequently, some boats can be found here: Bone Yard Boats

But you'll be getting a project boat for sure. I guess if you were into building your own boat at one time, something from here would be a step up.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Welcome to SN Sky.
DR's advice above is good and I'm sure people from your area will add advice about marinas that allow liveaboards.
The only thing I would suggest is that you are describing two different boats; a cheap live aboard for a few years and a blue water/ocean crossing sailboat. The former is relatively easy to find and in this economy there are lot's of cheap boats available. Since you want to get some experience sailing as well as living aboard I would look for something that is in basically good shape with decent sails. Even if it is a bit of a project boat, but basically sound, you will benefit from learning some of the basics of boat repair and maintenance which you will need to know if you go offshore. When you are ready to go you will have a better understanding of what type of boat you want for extended cruising, and if you've made some improvements to the live aboard you might even make a few bucks on it (but don't count on it). Good luck with your plans.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

*It seems to me that every boat is a project boat, even new boats right out of the factory *

Check out craigslist.

A old Hunter 27 can be bought up here in the NE for about 7 grand, in livable condition.

If you can stand an old 25 footer (less headroom but with a boom tent and an open hatch it's not that bad, esp in the South), there are lots and lots and lots for about 3-4K, again in livable condition.

If you look around, such boats can be found even cheaper than that, but buyer beware...

Try to find something that the PO was good with maintenance on. Sails and rigging ideally should be in good shape (if not, take that fact into consideration when negotiating price)

There are some great threads here on finding a cheap, solid boat so I won't go into that

Pretty much all older boats in that price category (and many in a much higher price category) are going to have leaks and such. I bought an old (1981) 25 footer that was in decent shape, but leaked under the rails when it rained. This year I took it out of the water and did, basically, a refit. If you have time but very little money this may be the way to go. It will cost under $1K, including haul out cost, if you are careful (and if you don't have to replace sails/rigging), and will take about a solid week of work.

Take off and re-bed the toe rail, and all other deck hardware. Re-bed and inspect all chainplates. Check under any large cracks in the gelcoat for leaks and rotting or else wet core. Rough up the old bottom paint, and check for blisters (they will be there). Fill those blisters and re-paint the bottom. Check the rudder for play, and fix if possible. Check all the rigging, and consider replacing. Check the wiring, if severely corroded consider replacing that too. Service the engine or outboard. (online you can find out how to do all of these things if you are unsure). Check any through-hulls while the boat is out as well. Most likely the original plastic ports will be glazed and leaky, mine had leaked into the core and rotted it for inches around the ports. For $100 get a sheet of tinted lexan and make new screw-on ports.

Buy Don Casey's book, "This Old Boat", used if possible.

Coastal cruiser is the way to go for now, because even an "offshore" boat will likely require lots and lots of mods ($$$) to make it offshore ready. And you don't even know what you will be doing and what you will need at this moment so...

However, very old Pearson Tritons, Cape Dory 25's, and certain Alberg Vegas can be found for under 5K if you really look around, and all are offshore capable with some mods...

Over time you will spend mucho dinero on things you never thought you wanted or needed, and the list of things to do will NEVER be completely done. NEVER. Did I mention, NEVER? Yes, NEVER be completely done, but through this first boat you will learn what is actually important in a boat and the next one will be chosen wisely and with plenty of time and hopefully a more significant budget.


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## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

It is definetly worth going to and calling around to local marinas and seeing what they have. 2 years ago my Brother in law found a Hunter 27 for $1500, needed a new diesel and sails. So it came out to be about $7,000 total to get a usable boat. Most marinas will have some boats that owners have just abandoned and the marina takes possesion, or owners who throw a 'for sale' on their boat and stop paying the yard fees etc. Anyway, to answer your question, it is totally worth it look at marinas and see what they have laying around.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

skyreep said:


> Also, what is a good minimum size for a global cruiser for 2 occupants? 30' ?


IT is becasue someone can cross the big pond with a 14 ft boat, it does not mean you should. I would not want to do it with a 30' boat. But this is just me. But in most situation, the carpenter is more important than a hammer.

You are young, you can move up the bigger size as your grow.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

skyreep said:


> if I am going to UNC Wilmington and don't want to live in an apartment, what's the best way to go about finding a cruiser inexpensively that is capable of transcontinental?


If you intend to go to college paying the real money and time, your focus is school and learn something. Living on board, dating and living good are not important. There are plenty of wind, water and fishes (chicks) when you are done. That was how I set examples and taught my kids. After all these years, they are and will be very successful in life.

If you want to go global, everything you learn in college will be your solution to the problem in the middle of the ocean. Don't skip Physics for Engineering. Chemistry (General and Organic), Geometry and Calculus 1 and 2, Physical Geography, biology, microbiology and possible human physiology are a must. Fluid dynamics is good also.

I use the above disciplines every time I go off shore.

Good luck


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

It can't be done. 
turn back---
you can't afford it and you don't have enough experience ,training or resilience.
You'll never make it.
It will break you financially and ruin your life forever ! 
Just re-enlist and work in a cubicle or a menial job and pay rent until you can no longer work and all your dreams die. 
Then you will be safe and secure.
Or buy a house and land that you have little or no real actual control over your neighbors or any future taxes or use laws and pay 3-4 times the puchase price after interest for 30+ years. 
Forget any youthful dreams and only work and pay, work and pay until old age comes and you can wonder forever "what if?"

Or you could just keep reading and studying what countless others have already done and learn through their experiences, find a boat you like and sail it wherever you feel you want to, until your satisfied or bored w/ it.
I occasionally see free boats on craigs list and have looked at a few,just for fun , (and because it's my addiction) some are junk, some just need a new owner.
The choice is yours. I already know which path I choose, I'm sailing !!!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Remember that even if you get a boat for free, the costs involved in owning and maintaining it are substantial. It is great to have the ambition and spirit to do something like this but it is also wise to consider the alternatives. You could wait for a while until you have the credentials to ultimately earn a good living and then "retire early" for a few years to go sailing. I'd recommend getting a degree under your belt before setting out. I waited until I graduated and then ski-bummed/patrolled for ten years. I was able to call up that degree when I decided it was time to get a "real job."


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Or you could "pass" in your sleep tonight. 
A degree is certainly not a bad thing , I was just in Home Depot in daytona,FL. last week getting a few construction supplies , while I waited for them to be loaded onto the truck the clerk, a nice young lady , expressed to me that she had a couple of dergrees ! of course none of them came w/ a guarantee of employment. And she is working for $10 hr. as a cashier and struggling to make a mortgage and student loan payments.
roll the diiizzzzzzzzzze.


life is fleeting, live the dash


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

but hey, what do I know !
I spend most of my time sailing about and visiting places under sail.
Occasionally having to work- Ugh.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Skyreep,
FIrst of all, as said above, a boat for livaboard for a year or two vs. an ocean crossing boat are 2 different things. Concentrate on the livaboard first and after a few years, look at ocean cruisers.
There are a lot of questions that only you can answer.
The big one...budget. How much do you have to spend on a boat and how much for upgrading and everyday expenses?
You need to decide which creature comforts are a must. As I said in another post, my first boat was a very roomy 30' Catalina, but it was bare bones. It didn't have hot water, shower or a refrigerated icebox. It did have an alcohol stove that we never use.
Our Catalina 34 we now have has, hot water, shower, gas stove, microwave and installed reverse cycle heat/AC unit. These things are important to us and we wouldn't have a boat without them.
What are the must items for you for a full time livaboard boat? Answer that first and then look for boats that meet your needs and budget.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

budget= all you have.
boat size= whatever suits you.
what kind of boat=sailboat.
is it chaeper to liveaboard or ashore= depends on how much you spend.
can it be done= by me apparently,and many many others.
what kind of work can be found cruising= hopefully the paying kind.
where can I find my dream boat?= the last place you look , you'll find it.
will I like it? = one way to find out.
should I go now or wait til "later"= I checked the calendar,better go now, didn't see the month of later listed.
What is most important ? = enjoying yourself and following your dreams as you live them.

let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be.


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## WildJasmine (Sep 10, 2011)

As someone who is somewhat doing what you want to do, I would suggest buying a small boat, learn the basics and make sure that this is the lifestyle for you, Then buy the bigger boat capable of crossing oceans.

My wife and I are young, (late twenties) have a good deal of experience on the water (not sailing, powerboats) and we are working our way up to an intracoastal cruise. We would not even dream of doing a transcontinental without a *whole* lot more experience.

Example: A young guy with little experience in our marina recently bought a very well equipped cruiser thinking he was going to "sail around the world". His idea was to take it from St Pete Florida to the Keys to visit family then head out on his journey. Things started going wrong and even though he had planned for years, he had no idea what to do. He eventually had to call for a tow and $1200 later he is in the keys and I am guessing his plans of sailing around the world have changed.

Not trying to kill your dreams, just be more realistic. Buy a smaller boat, we live on a 26 Pearson with a dog and a cat. Smaller boats are cheap everywhere, we found ours on craigslist for $3400 in great condition. Build your skills over a few years. Then buy your big boat capable of crossing oceans


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Skyreep, My wife and I bought a 30' sloop when we were right out of college and all we owned would fit in our car. There are plenty of strong, sound hull, used boats that can be "offshore" boats in your future with rigging and sail refits. In my opinion it's a myth that there is a line that separates "coastal" and "offshore" boats. Some are unfit, in poor condition, or poorly equipted, but there is no distinct difference by manufacturer. It is possible for you to purchase a boat that will be an offshore boat in the future. I would favor a full to 3/4 encapsulated keel with chainplates that can be accessed on a boat that my even be from the 70's or 80's that passes a good survey. This can be a boat that lacks sound rigging, sails, electrical system or motor.....not lacking all, but one disaster area can make the price very low. Another requirement for this plan to work would be that you a capable of taking on the challenges of maintenance and refit by your own skills and learning while not paying others to maintain your boat. Our forty years of liveaboard cruising have given us more in all aspects of our lives. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## b40Ibis (Apr 27, 2011)

Maybe find a boat for sale at a local marina, buy it, and liveaboard/do weekly sails from there. Then when you gain experience move on to the next harbor. If you can support yourself while you do it. In general living on a boat is more of an effort than living on the hard, but it is fun learning how hard!. But it would be an excellent experience and completely doable even if it was for 3-6 months. Sailing to 'India' is a whole other thing compared to docking up in Beaufort or somewhere. Have you ever been offshore on a sailboat for days/weeks at a time? It gets a little old after about three days! Ever heard of 'monkey but'? Maybe just buy a ticket to Bangkok or wherever and charter a boat there and various other place you mentioned?


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## leogallant (Jul 29, 2011)

My son is a sophomore, transferred to College of Charleston and wanted a better alternative to the apartment scene. He found a 30' Newport on Craigslist from college students who were graduated and we brought it up from Hilton Head to Charleston. Boat is structurally sound, but lots to do to get it really sea-worthy. But that's also half the fun. He has LOVED it, and has made some great friends in the marina...advice is never far away when questions about repairs or upgrades arise. I've also had a lot of fun helping with projects, of which there is no end


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses. Do you mind if I ask what your professions are that allow you to liveaboard cruise for so much of your lives? It is really what I want to do, I'm just unsure as to how I can finance it...
EDIT:
By the way, to give you an idea of the boats I've been looking at, I'm eyeballing the 37-42' Hunters, and Morgans. I looked at Ingrid 38's for a bit too but they're harder to find in my price range it seems, whereas the Hunters and Morgans can be found without too much trouble around the $30,000 range. I particularly like the 41' Out Islands and the 37' Hunters. Of course recommendations are always appreciated. 

I'm planning on buying a boat in the 2013 time window and using it as a live-aboard while I work until at least 2014 which would be the earliest I would consider anything more than, for instance, a BVI trip. Any global sailing spanning more than a month or two would probably wait until the 2016-2017 window, as my significant other will have completed her Graduate work, and I will 1) have finished my commitment with the military, and 2) Have had a chance to save up, plan, prepare, etc. Obviously I'm planning a bit ahead but you must realize, I will be out of the loop in on bases until Feb. 2013, and hence I want to prepare as much as possible, as I hope to live aboard when I come home.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

skyreep said:


> Hello Everybody, I just wanted to ask a couple questions.
> 
> I'm 19 years old, I live in North Carolina, I'm a Combat Medic in the North Carolina National Guard. My dream has always been a transcontinental cruise, particularly spending time in Greece, Japan, India, and South America. I joined the NCARNG so that I could begin my career as an Emergency Medical Professional, and save some money.
> My questions begin in the vague planning of my time abroad. I really can't afford an eccentric plan with a yacht and 4 star restaurants on every continent, however I want to be able to do it without being miserable. So my first question is, what's the least expensive way to begin living aboard? Even if I were docked and living on a boat, I would rather be living on a boat off the coast of North Carolina than in an apartment. So is it realistic to consider calling docks about basically repossessed boats? Or would it be less expensive to consider using my time as a soldier to slowly construct my own cruiser? Perhaps just a used boat? Thank you so much for all your input!
> ...


I think your best bet, as others have mentioned is to buy a used coastal cruiser, live aboard, cruise on the weekends/vacations and finish your education.

If you buy something decent enough, you can probably sell it for at least 75% of your purchase price.

That being said, YOU have to decide what your budget is.
How much do you want to spend on a boat?
How much can you afford for monthly slip fees?

Yes, you COULD live on the hook, but it will complicate things.
i.e.: You are have to cram for exams and it's blowing 40 - 50 knots, raining and you have to keep an anchor watch all night. Good luck with your test, one night like this could blow a semester.

Life in a slip could mean hot showers every day, marina wifi, power for your laptop, etc.

If you are really lucky maybe you can find a friendly marina that will help you out by trying to rent your slip every weekend and you can hang on the hook or cruise.

IMHO If you shop around 7K - 12K should get you something decent enough to live on.
1970's vintage:
C&C 30 MKI
Catalina 30
Pearson 30


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Recommended reading:









The Catalina 27 is one of the boats in the book and I'm partial to it. There are scads of them for sale and they're cheap, they have standing head room (for some) and they sail well. They also are set up for an outboard, so you can get a cheap used one now and a nicer one later.

Having done something similar to what you're suggesting (when I quit college I did it to move aboard a 31 footer), what I did was FIRST find the marinas that would allow live aboards (as has been suggested). For me, I found that the 30ft slips had a 3month wait list and the 40foot slips had a 1.5year wait list. That (and lack of funds) sealed it for me, a 31 footer it would be! (they allowed a little bit of overhang in those days. CHECK about overhang now though. A catalina 30 for example is 33+ foot long as measured by some marinas and many won't let you put one in a 30ft slip)

What size is the smallest you can live on? Well, that all depends on you. Personally I'm happier in a tent than a 4000sqft house, so I can go pretty small. Others can't. As a very general rule I'd say that 27 is about the limit for most live-abords and many can't take 27. Also 30ft slips are available the world over in quantity and the Catalina 27 can always fit in a 30ft slip. Living aboard on a 30 footer is VERY common, there are lots of boats in that size that many can live on.

Boat length is an odd thing. Usable space seems to increase by 50% from 25 to 27ft. It seems to double from 27 to 30. After that, usable space doubles every 5 foot of length. Costs double too. 

Living aboard is great and spending all that time aboard and at the dock lands you opportunities to learn, to get passage on other boats, to join race crews etc.

Have Fun!

MedSailor


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

I was also going to recommend the book that Medsailor posted above. Note that those boats are smaller than the ones you mentioned...and I guess I would recommend that you consider something in those smaller sizes. I don't have a whole lot of experience either, but the size boats you mentioned don't seem to me to square up with the budget or experience level.

One interesting idea from another thread was to drive around to all the marinas in your area, and look for suitable boats with registration stickers that expired several years ago. Get the names of those boat owners and make them an offer.

Have you considered checking to see if you can get a slip on a military base in the area? There appear to be two on Camp Lejeune, and I believe Cherry Point has one as well. That might make a decent boat affordable for you right now. Spend two weeks on her to see if living aboard is right for you.

Finally, in my opinion the proper term would be "trans-oceanic." For a trans-continental trip I believe you'd want the Jeep forum. But maybe that's a special use of the word among boat folk that I'm not aware of.


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

I believe you're right about trans-oceanic. I apologize, and also I'm not on base actually, since I'm national guard I'll be back at home in NC with the exception of one weekend per month when I have to drill at my armory. Although those boats are large for my experience level and current needs, I would rather buy one boat and take more time, classes, etc, to be well versed in it, than have to deal with the boat market to size up after only a couple of years. I would much rather but what I will need for future endeavors, as the extra length would also give me more living space in the time leading up to any trans-oceanic cruising. I would like to find the 36-38 range because it's not so big it's unmanageable and at the same time it's large enough for blue water, and large enough to provide (unneeded but still appreciated) creature comforts such as short showers, decent sized galley, plenty of headroom etc.

I might be wrong here, and I'm not trying to seem adamant, I just don't want to invest in a boat only to turnaround in 3 years and try to flip it for a larger boat.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

skyreep said:


> I might be wrong here, and I'm not trying to seem adamant, I just don't want to invest in a boat only to turnaround in 3 years and try to flip it for a larger boat.


There is real logic to what you say. A boat is something that you are likely to want to pour your heart and soul into fixing up. Even if you do all the work yourself and buy your parts at home depot and swap meets instead of West Marine, boats do still have a way of eating up all your extra cash. So I can see wanting to buy only one.

On the other hand an absolute truism is that the smaller the boat the more you will take it out. What you need is experience and if your boat is easy to take out and sail for an afternoon, or a quick overnighter you will. The 31 footer I started on was a bit big for me and I didn't go out very often. When I did, it was for longer trips, but if I had a catalina 27 or a pacific seacraft 25, I'd be out every sunny afternoon.

Another important point is that you don't really know what you want in your offshore boat. Boat designs vary greatly especially in their undersides. Underwater profile matters. A modern boat is more easily driven in light air, is often "faster" and is much easier to park in a marina. A full keeled boat is more kind to it's crew offshore, and better in a storm, but is "slower" and maneuvering in a marina is so difficult it will make you want to anchor out. These differences and choices affect everything about your boat from it's sailing ability, to its complexity, to its cost, to it's interior etc etc etc.

You need to find out what kind of sailing you will actually do. It's nice to say "I'll always rely on sail" but it's another thing to find out that you actually will motor because you're bored to tears in light air. That's fine, but you'll hate yourself if you've sacrificed accommodations and strength for light air sailing ability and now you never sail in light airs. You might also find that a big, heavy, safe, storm-ready boat is so slow you hate it's sailing characteristics and regret all the emphasis you've put into strength over performance.

These preferences matter. The boats that suit them are very different. Until you know your preferences, and make your own choices, you won't know what kind of boat you really want. Your first boat (like your first girlfriend) is not likely to be the best long-term match. 

Also, there is the budget issue. You "could" buy a 36 footer for less than 9K but if she has ocean potential, she'll be in awful shape and she is NOT going to be in a condition where you would likely be sailing her much. If your plan was to only live on her and work on her and sail other peoples boats (like club racing) that would be fine, but there is NO substitute for the experience gained in sailing your OWN boat.

If you choose one from the book I recommended you will have a boat you can afford, one that you can take for a sail at the drop of a hat, AND if you find you're okay with small, you don't HAVE to upgrade because all the boats in the book can (and have done) go around the world. So it could end up being the only boat you need to buy. You need a boat YOU can sail NOW and often.

MedSailor

P.S. Don't buy a wooden (or cement) boat. Just don't. Not okay. Never. I speak as a recovering wooden boat owner.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Waiting kills the dream. Do it as soon as possible. 
Listening to conventional wisdom kills the dream. You _can_ go outside the box and there are still many innovations to be found. Cruising may be old hat, but refitting/outfitting boats is still wide open and doctrine in this area is nothing to be taken too seriously imo.
Not realizing/accepting that you will need to refit your own boat from top to bottom can kill the dream. Be prepared to work very hard unless you hold the mega millions ticket. 
Biting off more than you can chew with a too big boat kills the dream. Go as small as you can stand. 30' is enough for sure.

If you really want it, it's something you realize is a life commitment unless rich - it becomes what you _do_.

Everyone does it just a bit differently, you either find your niche or you accept that you don't need to necessarily devote your life to this and just sail when you can, and live on land. There is no shame in day-sailing.

We gave up everything to pursue an obsession, and it does have a cost - be aware. We personally are at the end of the major full refit (so much in that sentence, it's so easy to type but so hard to convey what it means in reality) and all I can say at this point is that I am glad we did it this way - I know every flaw, every bolt on my boat and I feel that I am really ready to take her out there now. I have come to believe that those who chose the DIY route have the best chance, maybe even equal/better to those with the checkbook.

Bear in mind my opinion stems from the perspective of (making a boat for) cruising rather than living aboard. So... Imo, yes - you can do it (young and not rich), it is worth it, and it's awesome. Go for it! I personally like a full keel with a cutaway forefoot, narrow beam, low freeboard and smallish cockpit. I like sexy old boats in the classic sense, like folk boats (that style) for example..

Check out Wind and Tide by Jay Fitzgerald for info and inspiration. It's not on most cruisers list of required reading, and he is borish when he gets all philosophical (who isn't though?), but it should be on every younger potential cruisers required reading list imo. Best of luck, and fair winds


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

skyreep said:


> Hello Everybody, I just wanted to ask a couple questions.
> 
> I'm 19 years old, I live in North Carolina, I'm a Combat Medic in the North Carolina National Guard. My dream has always been a transcontinental cruise, particularly spending time in Greece, Japan, India, and South America. I joined the NCARNG so that I could begin my career as an Emergency Medical Professional, and save some money.
> My questions begin in the vague planning of my time abroad. I really can't afford an eccentric plan with a yacht and 4 star restaurants on every continent, however I want to be able to do it without being miserable. So my first question is, what's the least expensive way to begin living aboard? Even if I were docked and living on a boat, I would rather be living on a boat off the coast of North Carolina than in an apartment. So is it realistic to consider calling docks about basically repossessed boats? Or would it be less expensive to consider using my time as a soldier to slowly construct my own cruiser? Perhaps just a used boat? Thank you so much for all your input!
> ...


I like this kid.

Lots of good advice here, the boat advice i will add is be careful of a disease that many newbies pick up- "LOA creep." Here you are in post 1 asking about a "good minimum size... 30'?", then by page 3 you are talking about "eyeballing 37-42' Morgans."

My wife and I bought a pompous little pig of a 23 foot cruiser with the intention of buying or building a larger boat next season... 
That was in 2008. 
We still have the same boat.
It has adapted to us, and we have adapted to her, over the years, to the point that the two of us and our two dogs are comfortable aboard from May-October, without shorepower or pressure water.

The bigger the boat, the bigger the costs, and while a perfectly serviceable boat under 30' LOA can be found under $5K, sometimes free, any boat OVER 30' LOA in the same bottom feeder price bracket is gonna be much closer to being on the bottom... and the costs to bring her back to acceptable will break your heart, your budget, your back and your dreams. A general rule of thumb is that just about every item or task on a 35' boat is TWICE as expensive as the same job or item on a 25' boat- painting, rigging, sails, electrical, etc.

Catalina 27, Cherubini Hunter 27 or 30, Grampian 30, Ericson 27, Oday 27, Pearson 26 are all solid choices in the sub $10k bracket which will serve you well for your purposes, not gross out prospective girlfriends (trust me, you find out who the keepers are when they learn that they have to pump the head... every time.) or alarm your parents.


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

I really appreciate everyone's input , I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking at, and what I should be saving for, and this is definetly giving me a lot to think about. I just want to put out my firm stances do that you guys know what I'm thinking and can help me from there.

Okay, I really, really, only want to buy one boat and want to make the right choice the first time. 

Next, I understand I definetly need more experience, but I also want the ability to use this same boat in my future endeavors. 

41' is probably out of my range in terms of $30-40k, and in terms of general maintenance cost BUT, I'm really skeptical that I would be able to complete a transoceanic voyage on anything less than 30' loa and not be miserable in the process.

So, I looked at a lot of the boat examples you guys put out for me, and I really like how spacious the Pearson 30 looks.

So, now that we've narrowed things down a bit, is it better for me to look at Pearson 30's and Catalina 30's or should I step it up to say the 36' area in order to be better suited for future blue water?

Thank you all very much, through none of this have I felt discouraged or put down, but helped. I really like this community thus far.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

> Okay, I really, really, only want to buy one boat and want to make the right choice the first time.


But you have different goals, and (hopefully) a differing budget as time goes on...

Too many compromises between the four parameters to nail down one boat to start "and" finish the dream...


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

There's another book you might want to check out: "Twenty Affordable Sailboats to Take You Anywhere."

According to the description, in this book "you will find in-depth reviews of twenty affordable,comfortable, and seaworthy sailboats."

And best of all, "These boats range in size from 30-38 feet..."

Best of luck.


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## JimPendoley (Jan 17, 2005)

Skyreep,
First off, medics are a special breed, you go forward when everyone else is taking fire-thank you for your service.

As for your dream, don't let the naysayers discourage you. Lliving aboard is completely feasable. I've been doing it for eight years, year round in New England. Most times I put on a suit and go to work. I live on a mooring three seasons a year and on a dock in the winter. It is infinitely less expensive then living ashore-more challenging too, but very satisfying and fills a need for independence and living closer to the natural world. Not that I would know, but women seem to admire a guy with a boat who lives his dream. Something about being happy is attractive to others.

As for the boat, I live on a Pearson Vanguard, its older and less spacious then more modern designs, but it is robustly built and many have cruised great distances. Three guys your age circumnavigated aboard a Vanguard after graduating from college-so older designs can be beefed up and carry you far. Best of all they can be suitable live aboards and coastal cruisers. If and when you decide to voyage, they can be made suitable for the journey through modest infusions of money and massive amounts of sweat equity.
I bought mine for 10K, have put about that much into her over 10 years and she'll need another 6-8K to be all I'd like before cruising full time. During that time, I have cruised coastally, learned a lot and continually upgraded her. Given the market, you could probably buy a well fitted out Vanguard for 15K with a diesel and decent sails.

She has all the comforts, hot water, reefer, oven, good battery bank and solar that meets all my power requirement three seasons a year. She's insulated from well below the waterline and heated via propane three seasons a year and supplemented with electric during the winter. She was not always as comfortable as she is now, but life is a journey not a destination-getting there is half the fun. The only cautionary advice I have is that none of these upgrades would have been possible if I was paying someone else to do the work. I did it myself by reading books on the subject and asking for lots of advice along the way.

I have water views that are achingly beautiful all while being a somewhat responsible adult. I think you should go for it.
Jim


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

I used to have a Catalina 30 and I liked it a lot. The Pearson is a good boat as well.

That being said, neither were made for serious blue water (out in the middle of the ocean) sailing. Can they sail across the ocean? Yes, but if you run into nasty weather, there's no place to run and hide. Blue water boats are built heavier to withstand ugly weather and usually they have a higher percentage of weight built into the keel to better right the boat after a knock down.
Yes, there are some guys here who will say to go for it....you don't need big expensive boats. But my safety is precious to me and I'm not crossing any oceans in boats that were truely built to be coastal cruisers.
Now, if you want to island hop around the Carribbean, I say go for it as you're pretty much no more than 1 day from any island.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

skyreep said:


> So, now that we've narrowed things down a bit, is it better for me to look at Pearson 30's and Catalina 30's or should I step it up to say the 36' area in order to be better suited for future blue water?


It's not so much the size that makes a boat blue-water capable, it's also how well it is constructed, the features (large-capapcity water and fuel tanks, interior cabinets designed not to fly open when bouncing over 15 foot seas, handholds,etc), and _how skilled the skipper and crew are_. There's a couple in this forum who sail the Pacific in an Alben Vega 27 so size isn't everything.

A Catalina 30 from the factory is not designed to go offshore. From the southeast US to the Caribbean, yes, offshore, no. I don't consider going from Florida 50nm to the Bahamas as "offshore." You'll have the room, but you'll have to do some work to get it offshore ready. The interior is also not designed for offshore conditions. You won't have the tankage needed to take one across an ocean. You could certainly use portable tanks but there goes your storage space. It's a coastal cruising boat.

On the other hand, although you said that you only want to buy one boat, Catalinas sell quickly (generally) unless the boat is seriously neglected so you probably wouldn't have a problem living on it now and selling it later for an offshore boat.


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

So what size is good for crossing an ocean with comfort and most importantly, safety. 
Obviously a 41' would be nice; but is a 36' realistic? 

I found a nice Hunter 37' and I really like the layout.

And thank you, I'm a NC EMT but it was so hard to find a job, so I enlisted as a 68W, I love it though, just hate needles


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

skyreep said:


> So what size is good for crossing an ocean with comfort and most importantly, safety.
> Obviously a 41' would be nice; but is a 36' realistic?


Someone else won't have the same comfort threshold as you. This is a question often asked, but it is a question only you can answer and the best way of doing that is by trying out different boats (begging rides, crewing races, etc. ). Getting opinions on how I like my boat or how anyone else likes his or her boat is a shot in the dark that you'll feel the same way.

Again, there are smaller boats that are perfectly capable of safely crossing an ocean.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

You might want to read this thread:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/85769-10-000-blue-water-capable-boat.html


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

It's not the size, but the design that's important, as several have pointed out. There are some good threads here on features that make a blue water boat good for that job. This post from JeffH, one of our moderators, covers it well: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/628697-post12.html


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## meteuz (May 13, 2010)

I did something like what you are describing (minus the blue water part). Entering my second year in graduate school, I suddenly had to find a new place to live. Everybody I knew had made arrangements already and I did not feel like having housemates I did not know, so it seemed like a great time to live on a sailboat. I found out that the fees for the dock and haul out every other year would come to about what I would pay in rent. The stars were aligned.

I found a Cal 2-27 that had some hurricane damage. The seller who ran a small boat shop had patched a couple holes but the deck had been torn from the hull in a 5 foot section and that still had to be repaired. There was an Atomic 4 on a crate that went with the boat. I bought the boat very cheap with the agreement that I would fix it at his place in the next month, and he would be available to teach me how to do it. I put in 4 long weekends, getting there in the afternoon on Fridays and working 4-5 hours and then putting two 18 hour days on Saturday and Sunday. The boat was ready at the end of the month.

I had sailed only a couple of times by then. I had bought a styrofoam Sunflower for $50 and spent a few days teaching myself how to sail. I had read a ton about sailing already, but had very limited practical experience. I sailed the boat single handed from Connecticut to Rhode Island. I knew there was going to be some learning moments and wanted to keep them private. I managed to do it with no damage to the hull, only to ego when I took a wrong turn leaving the harbor and ran aground, but I was able to kedge off. 

I lived on the boat for 3 years. I learned a lot about sailing and boat maintenance. It was a great experience overall. A few things could have been better though, such as doing it further south. It is not as much fun when the boat is locked in ice and the water is turned off on the docks etc. Also being a graduate student while living aboard is just like working; you can't cast off and leave for a week whenever you feel like it. Still it was a fun experience and one I would not have had otherwise. 

I would say research what your expenses will be, think of some emergency funds, keep things very simple on the boat, and do it while you can.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Sky- you are getting some great advice here, but like many other new sailors (documented by threads here on SN) you aren't really willing to listen carefully because it doesn't fit your plan. The odds of you, with no experience sailing, let alone offshore experience, buying a cheap, older 36' +/- boat and having it serve your purposes of living aboard for a few years and then transforming into your ideal blue water circumnavigator are slim to none. I know I'll take the heat for being an old curmudgeon here, dashing a young sailors dreams, etc. but re-read this thread and you'll hear many experienced sailors encouraging you to buy a coastal cruiser, learn to sail, learn about sailboats and what makes a good offshore boat, and then when you have some knowledge buy the correct boat to take cruising. I think you are making too big a deal out of having to split it into two phases. I'm sure you have some past experiences where you bought something and after having it for awhile you realized that it wasn't really what you needed, or wanted. Boats are the same, it generally takes quite a bit of experience to know what the right tool is for the job. Your basic premise is a good example of what I'm talking about; you have no experience, limited funds, your looking for a good live aboard but you want this boat to turn into an offshore boat that you will depend on for your life (as well as having large water tanks, adequate storage, a strong rig, heavy ground tackle, large battery bank, etc, etc). I'm not saying don't go for it, just to realize that because of your lack of experience it's going to be a miracle if you pick the perfect boat to do two very different things right out of the gate. A smaller boat to start that is easy to take sailing would be my advice to my own son if he were in your position, and I wish you the best of luck.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

skyreep said:


> So what size is good for crossing an ocean with comfort and most importantly, safety.
> Obviously a 41' would be nice; but is a 36' realistic?
> 
> I found a nice Hunter 37' and I really like the layout.


A 37' Hunter is also a coastal cruiser, not a blue water boat.
As Donna said above, it's not so much the size as it is the mfg.
Pearson's, Catalina's, Hunter's and a number of other boats really are just for coastal cruising.


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm sorry, I thought the Catalina 38, Yankee 38, Hughes 38 were designed for international offshore racing. Not as sure on the other ones bunim fairly certain the Catalina was, and problems such as low water tank capacity are ones which can be resolved. 
The division between everyone just makes it very hard to satisfy posters when I have some saying "go for a 27-30 footer, you can learn and circumnavigate" others saying "don't go 37-40 blue waters, too big to start with and be cost efficient as a liveaboard" but then when trying to satisfy everything with 30-36+/- I have people saying its too big for liveaboard and too small for blue water.
I understand the argument for two different boats, it just seems like it would make alot of sense to learn on the boat I would take offshore, the comfort for liveaboard increases substantially, the safety of blue water increases, etc. 
People like Captain Fatty go on two circumnavigations on a S&S 38, I just fail to see why a 36-38 footer isn't what makes sense. When it's hard enough earning 30-40k for a boat, I don't see why I wouldn't go ahead and get the boat I need, rather than spending even more years selling, and saving, for a larger vessel.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

skyreep said:


> I'm sorry, I thought the Catalina 38, Yankee 38, Hughes 38 were designed for international offshore racing. Not as sure on the other ones bunim fairly certain the Catalina was, and problems such as low water tank capacity are ones which can be resolved.
> The division between everyone just makes it very hard to satisfy posters when I have some saying "go for a 27-30 footer, you can learn and circumnavigate" others saying "don't go 37-40 blue waters, too big to start with and be cost efficient as a liveaboard" but then when trying to satisfy everything with 30-36+/- I have people saying its too big for liveaboard and too small for blue water.
> I understand the argument for two different boats, it just seems like it would make alot of sense to learn on the boat I would take offshore, the comfort for liveaboard increases substantially, the safety of blue water increases, etc.
> People like Captain Fatty go on two circumnavigations on a S&S 38, I just fail to see why a 36-38 footer isn't what makes sense. When it's hard enough earning 30-40k for a boat, I don't see why I wouldn't go ahead and get the boat I need, rather than spending even more years selling, and saving, for a larger vessel.


hahah... everyone is correct. They all have given you the right answer based on their experiences and needs. It is up to you to sort out what is best for you. Let those answers to sink in, you will see the light soon enough.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Unfortunately, with a forum like this, there is an art in figuring out whose viewpoint and opinions to trust. Because in most cases, it's all opinion.

In the end, you'll do what you want to do. We all know that. I think what most of us are trying to do is at least show you that there's more to it than just buying any boat that catches your fancy, moving aboard, and sailing off. You have two stated goals that share some features but not all.

My major concern with you and others in your situation, is that you don't know enough about sailing or about sailboats to be able to effectively use the answers you receive to your questions to help you move towards your goal. The only way that will happen is to slow down and take it in smaller steps. Otherwise, it's just a lot of facts and opinions being thrown at you.

You may not even like living on a boat. Trying to sell a boat you don't want is not as easy as giving up an apartment lease if you don't like the landlord.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

skyreep said:


> People like Captain Fatty go on two circumnavigations on a S&S 38, I just fail to see why a 36-38 footer isn't what makes sense.


It does...for Captain Fatty. It may or may not for you.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Also consider that the cost of maintaining each additional foot of boat goes up exponentially. Once you think you know what size boat you want, look at supply catalogues and price replacement parts. Call a sail loft to see how much it will be to buy a new sail (main and jib at a minimum). Find out from the marina you choose what the difference in slip rental is between say a 30 foot boat and a 35 foot boat (usually 30 foot is one cut off before going to the next price level).


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Any boat CAN circumnavigate.
How much money do you want to throw at the boat to make it suitable?

Yes, Capt. Goodlander took a semi-derelict boat and made it a world cruiser, BUT

...you aren't Fatty Goodlander.

Fatty started sailing when he was BORN, bought Carlotta at 15, and had logged a ton of seamiles before he decided to fit out WildCard. Experience is a huge time and money-saver when it comes to choosing and outfitting a boat.

It's not the SIZE of a boat that makes it a circumnav candidate- it is the BUILD. You bring up Catalinas- here are three quick reasons why a Catalina 30 is not a good choice to cross an ocean:
1. HUGE companionway hatch
2. Huge Cockpit with tiny/no bridgedeck.
3. Undersize cockpit drains.

Could a Catalina lap the world? Sure. Throw enough time and money at any problem and it can be solved. But all that time and money working on the boat mean less time sailing the boat or living aboard the boat, and that is your goal in the short term, isn't it? Oh, and let's not forget that the bigger the boat the bigger the cost for slip fees, haulout fees, yard fees because those costs are always calculated by length (in the water) or square footage (on the hard) the more money you spend on the fixed expenses, the less money you have to spend on the actual boat.

With your tight budget you are already behind the curve, because boats in the bottom feeder budget are always, always behind the miantenance curve to start. So now, before you can even think about "Goodlandizing " your ride to cross the Atlantic, you have to deal with basic deferred maintenance- and the bigger the boat, the bigger the maintenance.



The RIGHT boat is a boat that can grow with you, not a boat that you try to grow into, with costs that just seem to grow.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

There really is a lot of good advice in this thread. I, myself did things in a very unconventional way, and jumped in feet first with no experience. Here's a link to my story about "jumping in with boat feet". http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/85585-newbies-seasoned-cruisers-2.html#post854280 I spent 10K on a 31ft sinking wooden boat. It almost sank in a near-shore storm, but it didn't and I lived on her for 6 great years and she taught me a lot.

For many of those 6 years I thought she could be an ocean crossing boat. Unfortunately I was so green that, I had no idea. She could NOT be a blue water boat. I'll draw a parallel on the point of experience. I once had a doc tell me, when I was newly out of PA school that I had to be very careful. It was not because of what I didn't know. If I knew that I didn't know the answer, I could ask or look it up. It wasn't the info I knew that was dangerous either. It was the stuff that "I didn't know that I didn't know" that would be dangerous.

In Bjones post he points to only a few reasons why a catalina isn't an ocean going boat. Who would have though that a big cockpit opening is a fatal flaw? It can be. It takes a while and some experience to know these things, which is why it's good that you're asking those who do know.

Even though I'm an iconoclast myself and I jumped in with both feet I don't think you can get a good blue water boat, that you will be happy with (remember you have to figure out what YOU want in a boat i.e. big and slow vs fast and light) for your stated budget. I would LOVE for you to prove me wrong and I'd happily eat my hat, but I fear it's not realistic at your current budget.

I see 3 competing things that can't be reconciled: 
1.Desired size. 
2. Blue water capability.
3. Less than 10K price.

I would argue that if you only choose 2 of the three above, you will have more choices than you can shake a stick at. But it'll have to be 2 of the 3 above.

Lets see if we can look at this a different way: How badly do you want to actually cross an ocean on your own bottom? Is it the crossing itself that attracts you, or the destination (Europe?). You could sail your whole life up and down the US east coast and into the Caribbean and never anchor in the same place twice. What about skipping the Atlantic crossing? If you skip the crossing requirement you could get a great coastal boat and enjoy costal cruising for as many years as you like. You don't have to cross an ocean for it to be a cruising life.

If crossing the Atlantic under sail is really your dream, what about getting passage on another cruising boat that needs a third person as crew or on a race boat?

If sailing your boat in Europe is the dream, you could buy a coastal boat and have it shipped over one day, negating the need to spend all the money on a sturdy blue water boat and all the gear. Shipping your boat over to any spot on the globe is not as expensive as you think.

If it absolutely has to be one boat only, and it has to be big, and you have to cross the Atlantic on YOUR boat, then price has to go. That can be done though. You could get a boat loan. I have a Formosa 41 and they're HUGE on the inside and are awesomely seaworthy and good ones can be had for as little as 30K. It's three times your budget but you could do it with a boat loan.

Also if you don't want to go into debt, and you want to cross on your boat, it'll have to be size that goes. Go small and go now has worked for many.

_Pick 2 of the three and the dream is doable in one step as you require._

Happy pondering.

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Another thread to check out that's currently discussing 10K blue water boats:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/85769-10-000-blue-water-capable-boat-2.html

MedSailor


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> I see 3 competing things that can't be reconciled:
> 1.Desired size.
> 2. Blue water capability.
> 3. Less than 10K price.
> ...


I think we may have just coined a new cliche here.
"Big, blue water, cheap...pick two."


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

I think I'd honestly go with a blue water of comfortable size. I never actually stated I wanted to spend less than 10k, true I only have about that much but I feel confident that I could handle a boat loan. When I say I don't want to spend to much, I mean I don't want to be unrealistic and think I can afford a 100k boat without being in debt for many years, whereas, I think I could probably handle payments on a 20k loan and have it paid off well before I'm 30.

It's important to me that I sail my boat to the places I want to go, whether it be the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, the Red Sea, or across the Atlantic, I want to be able to say I've circumnavigated the globe in my own vessel. Also, if I'm on my vessel for two years in port, I want to be comfortable, I mean, not 53' comfortable, but I don't think my significant other and I could keep our sanity in port on a 27'.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

skyreep said:


> I think I'd honestly go with a blue water of comfortable size. I never actually stated I wanted to spend less than 10k, ...


You kind of did, and even implied that you wanted to spend less:



skyreep said:


> Is the idea of finding an impounded boat for a couple thousand feasible? The savings are good to go, with more than enough, and Basic and AIT will give me $9,000 ish. But of course, I'd rather not spend all of that.


As for this:



skyreep said:


> true I only have about that much but I feel confident that I could handle a boat loan. When I say I don't want to spend to much, I mean I don't want to be unrealistic and think I can afford a 100k boat without being in debt for many years, whereas, I think I could probably handle payments on a 20k loan and have it paid off well before I'm 30.


Others more experienced with boat loans (we don't have one) can chime up but it's my understanding that you'll be hard-pressed to find a bank to give you a boat loan for that small an amount and almost definitely not for an older boat. Other options people have suggested for those in your situation are lines of credit, but you need to own a home, I believe, for that.



skyreep said:


> It's important to me that I sail my boat to the places I want to go, whether it be the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, the Red Sea, or across the Atlantic, I want to be able to say I've circumnavigated the globe in my own vessel. Also, if I'm on my vessel for two years in port, I want to be comfortable, I mean, not 53' comfortable, but I don't think my significant other and I could keep our sanity in port on a 27'.


If compromise isn't an option, it just might take a bit longer to get to the Med. Eventually, I'm sure, you'll get there if you are persistent and creative.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

MedSailor said:


> Recommended reading:


Obviously, there is a huge generation gap here. 
Before he reads yours, may he should read this:










First You Have to Row a Little Boat: Reflections on Life & Living by Richard Bode - Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists



skyreep said:


> It's important to me that I sail my boat to the places I want to go, whether it be the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, the Red Sea, or across the Atlantic, I want to be able to say I've circumnavigated the globe in my own vessel. Also, if I'm on my vessel for two years in port, I want to be comfortable, I mean, not 53' comfortable, but I don't think my significant other and I could keep our sanity in port on a 27'.


It is good that you dream big. Unless you have rich parents or wealthy a in laws, let focus on your career first. Life sucks if you have to live pay check to pay check, pay back the bank loan year after year.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Skykeep, Let no one stomp on your plan to do more with the best boat you can get for the least money. That's the same plan for most everyone here and nobody should be surprised! I'm also sure that you are not surprised that you will need support, money, wisdom, hard work and some time. There's plenty of practical advice here for specifics, but little worthwhile among the philosophies of stay, go, wait, learn, buy now, save, and zen-sailing. You have your plan and you can adapt. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh no...He asked and now he's locked in...He Has To follow our advise...

None of this going off and doing your own thing here...


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## skyreep (Apr 3, 2012)

Well, I was thinking about it, and I think you guys are right. For one thing, I don't wanna spend over 10k. And if I can find a 36 or 38, that's fine, but I think I'd settle for a 30 or 32 that's in good shape. 

As far as circumnavigation, I don't think I really have a problem chilling in the Caribbean, gaining experience, and contemplating a live aboard profession that I can save up for a nice 45' with, when I'm ready to try my hand at transoceanic.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

skyreep said:


> Well, I was thinking about it, and I think you guys are right. For one thing, I don't wanna spend over 10k. And if I can find a 36 or 38, that's fine, but I think I'd settle for a 30 or 32 that's in good shape.
> 
> As far as circumnavigation, I don't think I really have a problem chilling in the Caribbean, gaining experience, and contemplating a live aboard profession that I can save up for a nice 45' with, when I'm ready to try my hand at transoceanic.


I knew I liked this kid.

Skyreep, given my choice between a long, cold voyage across the featureless Atlantic , where the log entries either consist of notes on boredom or hell's broken loose terror, and waking up each morning trying to decide whether to stay acnhored off this sunny rum-soaked island or sail to another sunny rum-soaked island, I'll take the caribbean any day of the week


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

I've been reading these posts for a few years. Not nearly as long as I've been sailing.
I'm always amused at the sources of the advice given to "newbies" from the posters here.
From purely the perspective the internet provides, I , as many here, have developed a presumption of the individuals that post. Or in other words , I've wondered if the impressions I get, from the opinions expressed, are true representations of what I think the people whom post are "about"
I'll attempt to clarify what I am attempting to expound, or express.
It seems that there are essentially 2 camps when the question of cruising/sailing living aboard. I know, this is a generality, bear w/ me.
1. the go now crowd. 
Basically, go now, life is too short, just do it, etc.
2. the don't go now crowd. 
self explanatory- your not able,ready, well heeled enough, you can't afford it . Go the traditional work- save -retire approach.
I've often wondered if I met a "sailor" from either group, if I would or could Identify them by their appearance or general demeanor.
Granted, each approach has it's merits.
If you go now , the advantage is - immediate gratification and success or immediate failure and sorrow.
If you choose the "wait till later" the advantage is a greater percieved advantage of success and happiness after a life of conservative working and careful saving and planning. the downfall being the lack of a guarantee that you'll live that long or hold the dream throughout your "working and saving years" to achieve your "dream" of sailing/cruising .

I state this above to set the stage, to explain partly, how I chose the "go now" approach.
My personal experience when initially contemplating the Cruising/sailing life was that those who encourage the "go now" approach were often the risk takers and the ones whom you met "along the way" to somewhere else. 
I would meet them as a young boy as they transited the fingerlakes region of NY along the Erie canal on their way to or from the great lakes to the hudson and beyond. 
These folks fascinated me and their stories of travel and far away places called to me like a sailor's song .
The folks I met that fit into the "don't go until your ready/older/more experienced crowd" were the ones I more often than not met every summer, tied to the dock at the numerous marinas in the region.
These folks lived a more traditional lifestyle. Some traveled once or twice to waters outside the area. Always intending to return to there land based homes/jobs/lives and conventional trappings. 
These were also the ones who convinced me that the "others" (the vagabond traveling types) were foolhardy or posessed qualities that I neither had nor could possibly obtain w/out years of "experience" from none other than those NOT doing it. 
Unfortunately I heeded there unfounded fears and delayed my own desire to cruise for years, until finally casting off. 
Now decades later and many thousands of miles under a number of different vessels both power and sail, I know that those who said that I could not "do it" were merely expressing there own insecurities and lack of knowledge having never done it themselves.
Speaking from actual experience of doing what the OP desires to do is that the single biggest impediment to success is yourself and self doubt instilled by naysayers and those attempting to speak from experience they sorely lacked.
or to put it more plainly, 
you can "do it" in and open canoe if you are lucky, bold, and pick the right weather windows !

Let us not make this any more complicated than it is.
Man has been sailing big oceans in small poorly equipped vessels to unknown and uncharted areas long before written history had the opportunity to record it.

you wanna sail or tell stories at the dock about things you'll never personally experience ? See you as I'm passing through.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

'great post by Joethecobbler! I still find it tough to draw the line between those that "go" and those that "don't". I guess it's because I don't know to which group I belong. Fresh out of college, my wife and I bought a sloop to live aboard and sailed to Florida, but we needed money and raised two children and stayed employed for the following thirty years. We continued to live aboard successively larger boats and we cruised to the Bahamas in the summers. For the last ten years we've been cruising from Maine to the Bahamas or Keys on our boat and off to the Nile, Amazon, Ireland and the Galapagos on other peoples boats. This coming June we will have lived aboard for forty years. Did I "go" or did I "not go"? ......I couldn't say. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> Others more experienced with boat loans (we don't have one) can chime up but it's my understanding that you'll be hard-pressed to find a bank to give you a boat loan for that small an amount and almost definitely not for an older boat. Other options people have suggested for those in your situation are lines of credit, but you need to own a home, I believe, for that.


He may be in a situation where it's better to get a boat that needs some work that he can pay cash for. It'd be more expensive in the long run, but it'd get done. 
It's a buyer's market. If he's patient and uses good resources (auctions and things), he could get a boat with good bones for cheap. As he lives on it, eating bologna and cheese, he can do upgrades and repairs until she's ready and shove off.


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