# another missing sailor



## hertfordnc (Sep 10, 2007)

I love traveling alone and I really look forward to sailing by myself. But a little voice tells me I am not experienced enough. I hope to be some day.

Apprently this guy wasn't either:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15008709/detail.html


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The guy was a novice sailor on a new to him boat. He was going to do a fairly long coastal trip (60 nm) with the Santa Ana winds blowing off the land. He had cases of Corona beer aboard...

I see so many problems with this, it ain't funny. First, he was a novice sailor on a new-to-him boat. That alone is a recipe for disaster.

Second, he didn't file a float plan. That's why it's taken three months for anyone to realize he was missing-and the boat is now in Hawaii.

Third, the cases of Corona beer doesn't lead me to believe Bunker was the type to sail sober. Sailing and drinking don't mix well. Sailing singlehanded, on a new-to-you boat and drinking are a good way to win a Darwin Award.

Fourth, the Santa Ana winds were starting up. Santa Ana winds can be truly hellacious. I don't know if I'd want to be out sailing in them myself.

I'd be curious to know if the boat had jacklines run. I'm willing to bet it didn't. I'm also willing to bet he didn't have a harness and tether.

Finally, the boat had some indications of a fire aboard, yet no PAN-PAN or MAYDAY call was ever heard. *If I had a fire aboard, I'd at least want to issue a PAN-PAN about it... wouldn't you???*

UGH... it's stories like this that make me wonder.


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I'd be curious to know if the boat had jacklines run. I'm willing to bet it didn't. I'm also willing to bet he didn't have a harness and tether.


Totally agree with you SD, but I'd say he probably did have jacklines what else would a [email protected]$$ hold on to?


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

That's sad. and I agree also with SD. Sometimes people think our responses to their dreams are too harsh, but I think this is why. We try to keep people from doing moronic things before they have things and skills in place to accomplish them.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm not familiar with the term "pan-pan". You use it as I would MAYDAY or distress signal. Can you clarify?
John


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

ccriders said:


> I'm not familiar with the term "pan-pan". You use it as I would MAYDAY or distress signal. Can you clarify?
> John


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan

This does a better job than I, pronounced Pon-Pon


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Thanks, that's good information.
John


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## Gramp34 (Oct 5, 2006)

Turns out he didn't finish paying for the boat before his trip:

_Bunker had made a $9,000 down payment for the boat and still owed a few thousand dollars when he told McArthur he was moving the boat to San Diego, where he said he had found another slip to sublet. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22561780/)
_​So don't finance a novice sailor in (your) new boat doing an offshore run, either.

Tim


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

Cases of Corona for a trip from Dana Point to San Diego? Either he got a really good buy someplace in Orange County that he couldn't pass up, or he was one serious beer drinker.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Basically, a MAYDAY is an call for immediate assistance. A PAN-PAN is a call to warn people that you've got a problem and that you may need assistance.

If you make a MAYDAY call and the USCG shows up, they'll be somewhat put out if you don't have a boat that is sinking or on fire or a person with a serious medical emergency... You don't make a MAYDAY call if you've run out of fuel, like a boat did last year... or if you're just tired and want to get off, which has also happened.

BTW, if you don't know the difference between Securité, PAN-PAN and MAYDAY you probably should learn.

*SECURITÉ* calls are basically informational in nature. You might use it when you're about to enter a narrow channel and don't have a working engine, that you saw a drifting log or other potentially damaging flotsam/jetsam/debris. It is also used to report weather updates and such. It is the least urgent of the distress calls.

*PAN-PAN*s are a bit more urgent, and generally, as I posted above, indicate that their is no immediate risk of losing the boat or imminent loss of life. This is often used if you go aground in a soft grounding... like on a sand bar, or if you are taking on water, but the pumps are keeping up with it. It basically says to the boats nearby you... keep an ear out, cause I might be calling for help if I can't deal with this myself. They're a bit more serious than Securités, but not as serious as MAYDAYs.

*MAYDAY*s are the most serious of distress calls. This should generally only be used when there is imminent danger of losing life or the boat, or the boat has already been lost. If you're aground, with storm waves pounding you onto a rock jetty-this is a MAYDAY situation, not a PAN-PAN. If you're on fire and the extinguishers have failed to stop it... this is MAYDAY situation. If someone has been hit by the boom and one pupil is blown... or had a heart attack... it is a MAYDAY situation...

It is not a MAYDAY situation if you are just tired and want to get off the ship. It is not a MAYDAY situation if you're out of fuel and becalmed. _And finally, it is not a MAYDAY situation if you run out of cold beer, even if some of you guys think this is equivalent to the world ending._ 

BTW, if you use any of these fraudulently or without good reason, you can possibly be charged with fines, the costs of any SAR operations and even jail time in extreme cases.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

ccriders said:


> Thanks, that's good information.
> John


And the other common all-stations call is "securite", pronounced in English "securitay". You'll hear cruise boats using it when they leave dock and aren't capable of fast maneuvering. I've used it in fog-bound channels.

These terms all derive from the French, by the way.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

If a crew broke his/her arm and I was single-handing in heavy air, I would issue a PAN-PAN to indicate that I had injured crew (non-critical) and to arrange via the Coast Guard/marine police to meet me at dock to get them off safely. In this case, the PAN-PAN doesn't indicate a damaged or boat-specific situation, but more like "here I come, and I might not be as fastidious about my maneuvering as per normal".

If the air was heavy enough, I'd want an escort in, where possible, or also if possible, to take on a crew from the CG or the police to help me get in quicker.

Middle of the ocean...you're probably not going to do this unless you are dead in the water and can't get underway at all. There's plenty of scope for a PAN-PAN that doesn't include "immediate or imminent threat to life".


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Valiente said:


> These terms all derive from the French, by the way.


French.     Wait until Giu hears that!!!!!!! I want to read his review how they are from Portugal.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I've had to issue a Pan-Pan (while flying) under stress before; you would be amazed how difficult it is to actually correctly call out and enunciate the "Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan"! It was more difficult than the old "Sally Sell Sea Shells by the Sea Shore"


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Would this be when your rudder went AWOL... 


Zanshin said:


> I've had to issue a Pan-Pan (while flying) under stress before; you would be amazed how difficult it is to actually correctly call out and enunciate the "Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan"! It was more difficult than the old "Sally Sell Sea Shells by the Sea Shore"


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

No, it wasn't - when the rudder and my ship parted ways I didn't radio anything abnormal (it wasn't a Securite, Pan-Pan or Mayday situation - I wasn't in danger and nobody listening on VHF would have been able to help). 
The Pan-Pan I issued was calling in a fire I had just seen started in the high mountain of Utah north of Bryce Canyon - started by a lightning strike from a CuNim whose downdrafts had almost caused me to crash/land my glider several minutes before (my adrenaline was still pumping from that scare and my voice was all squeeky for a while). I never found out what happened, but am happy I did it. It took a while to get the information relayed to the forestry service, though. After a bit I got in contact with another plane about 30,000 feet above me, who called it in to Salt Lake City, who then called the forestry service.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Zanshin—

You probably should have made a Securité call when your rudder fell off.  A sailboat that has no way of steering or limited ways of steering should probably warn people nearby that is the case.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

> A sailboat that has no way of steering or limited ways of steering should probably warn people nearby that is the case.


Like this guy, only his rudder was fine!


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

SD - I suppose I should have done that, in retrospect. But when I did finally drift over shallow enough water to drop the hook and wait things out I at least had enough presence of mind to put up my dayshape.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, now you know for next time...  I seriously hope there isn't a next time, but you're ready for it now. 


Zanshin said:


> SD - I suppose I should have done that, in retrospect. But when I did finally drift over shallow enough water to drop the hook and wait things out I at least had enough presence of mind to put up my dayshape.


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## TThomsen (Oct 9, 2007)

I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Just because you have a case of beer does not mean that you sail, drive or fly under the influence. I am sure that lots of sailors have beer/wine onboard so that they can enjoy a drink once they get to the destination.

With a fire onboard he should have called a Mayday if evacuating the boat for a dinghy. Maybe the fire was such that he could not get to the radio, and in a panic jumped in the dinghy. In this case I would probably have left the dinghy tied to the boat since it is easier for potential rescuers to find a boat vs. a dingy. If he boarded a dingy with Santa Ana winds the dinghy would probably have been blown to sea. 

A novice sailor should not sail 60 nm along the coast. I am a novice sailor in the sense that I have not sailed much in the last 20 years, before that I sailed a fair bit, owned a small charter boat business, and would have no hesitation sailing a boat 60 miles today.

When are you not a novice sailor anymore? 

I can think of a few novice sailors that have sailed around the world, Miles and Beryl Smeeton for one.

Don't always be so fast in passing judgment!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Corona beer isn't exactly a rare or especially expensive item in San Diego. Having cases of it aboard a boat for a 60 nm sail, when you're on-board alone leads me to believe that it wasn't just cargo. You don't need cases of it to enjoy a drink once you get to a destination.


TThomsen said:


> I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Just because you have a case of beer does not mean that you sail, drive or fly under the influence. I am sure that lots of sailors have beer/wine onboard so that they can enjoy a drink once they get to the destination.


Even if he was able to deal with the fire, a PAN-PAN call should have been made at a minimum. _It does look like he was able to deal with the fire, since the boat didn't burn to the waterline and sink. _ Most fires on boats do not self-extinguish... and if the fire was that large or involved, chances are very likely that we wouldn't have even heard of this boat.


> With a fire onboard he should have called a Mayday if evacuating the boat for a dinghy. Maybe the fire was such that he could not get to the radio, and in a panic jumped in the dinghy. In this case I would probably have left the dinghy tied to the boat since it is easier for potential rescuers to find a boat vs. a dingy. If he boarded a dingy with Santa Ana winds the dinghy would probably have been blown to sea.


The guy was a software engineer, and didn't own a charter boat business. And we're talking about setting off with the Santa Ana winds starting up. Have you ever experienced Santa Ana winds??? Yes, there have been many novice sailors that have taken off on longer voyages than even this. Tania Aebi comes to mind. She was lucky. She was having issues with her celestial navigation and was overdue into her first stop along the way IIRC. 


> A novice sailor should not sail 60 nm along the coast. I am a novice sailor in the sense that I have not sailed much in the last 20 years, before that I sailed a fair bit, owned a small charter boat business, and would have no hesitation sailing a boat 60 miles today.
> 
> When are you not a novice sailor anymore?
> 
> ...


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Guys, guys, the beer was extra ballast.......


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*easy trip*

Dana Point to San Diego is a cakewalk. Even in Santa Anas.

It's long, but the seas are docile and the wind is great, even in winter (sans storms). Stay over in Oceanside and it's really just 2 easy daysails. San Diego harbor is a mamoth bay that you would have to actually steer away from to avoid.

However, I remember the Santa Anas really cooking around that time, even on the coast. They were the worst Santa Anas I have seen in 40 years. These winds could have been trouble.

The seas would have still been mild with Santa Anas, as they are on offshore wind. An experienced sailor could have weathered these winds with sail reduction and proper angle of attack, however this guy may not have been experienced.


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## TThomsen (Oct 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Corona beer isn't exactly a rare or especially expensive item in San Diego. Having cases of it aboard a boat for a 60 nm sail, when you're on-board alone leads me to believe that it wasn't just cargo. You don't need cases of it to enjoy a drink once you get to a destination.


I still think that you are jumping to a conclusion.

You must bear over with me since english is not my first language but to quote the news article.



> Bunker's laptop, along with cases of Corona beer, sodas, canned food and cartons of Marlboro Red cigarettes were found -- but Bunker was missing.


It could be read as there were 1 case of beer, 1 case of soda and 1 case canned food. In this case I would write it as "cases of beer, soda and food". It does not say if the beer had been opened or not.

As for Santa Ana winds, no I have never been in them, but they are of the family of winds called katabatic wind, which is an outflow wind, normally funnelled by mountains. I have been in that type of wind.

Thomas


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

TThomsen said:


> I still think that you are jumping to a conclusion.
> 
> You must bear over with me since english is not my first language but to quote the news article.
> 
> ...


Good point - it can be read as multiple cases (boxes, crates), each containing some beer, some soda, and some food.

Is poor writing skewing our perspective? Who knows for sure?


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## TThomsen (Oct 9, 2007)

One of my hats at work is as Safety Manager where I have to be objectiv. When I first looked at this tread I was wondering what the weather was like at the time. It is not always easy to find historic weather but I just hound this:

Special Weather Statement
October 3, 2007 - 1amPDT (Wednesday)

INLAND EMPIRE...SAN BERNARDINO MOUNTAINS...SAN GABRIEL MOUNTAINS...SANTA CLARITA VALLEY....CAJON PASS....SAN DIEGO COUNTY MOUNTAINS...RIVERSIDE COUNTY MOUNTAINS...ORANGE COUNTY VALLEYS AND FOOTHILLS...SANTA ANA MOUNTAINS...


A MODERATE SANTA ANA WIND EVENT LOOKS POSSIBLE BY THE WEEKEND. TO BE COMPLETELY SURE WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH MORE RESEARCH WILL BE NEEDED HOWEVER BY SATURDAY NIGHT A 1029MB HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL BE CENTERED OVER THE GREAT BASIN. THIS WILL ALLOW RAPID COOLING UNDER IT WITH TEMPERATURES DROPPING TO 20 DEGREES OR LOWER IN THE GREAT BASIN.

THE TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCE AND HIGH PRESSURE LOCATION IN RESPECT TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WILL ALLOW WINDS TO COME OUT OF THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST THROUGH THE PASSES AND CANYONS INTO THE INLAND EMPIRE AREAS, AND THEN STREAM OUT OF THE SANTA ANA MOUNTAINS AS WELL AFFECTING THE ORANGE COUNTY AREA.

OWS FORMULA IS ESTIMATING THE WINDS TO BE 40 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 50 MPH LATE SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER 11PM, AND PEAKING SOMETIME SUNDAY MORNING AROUND 4AM - 6AM. THE WINDS SHOULD RAPIDLY DIE OFF THROUGHOUT THE AFTERNOON SUNDAY.

FIRE DANGERS WILL BE HIGH ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA, AND IT IS POSSIBLE WE WILL BE LOOKING AT A RED FLAG WARNING FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE UPDATES FOR FURTHER NEWS ON THAT. AS OF NOW OWS CANNOT CALL A FIRE EVENT UNTIL IT GETS CLOSER HOWEVER WITH THE SANTA ANA WINDS BLOWING, FIRE CONCERNS ARE ALWAYS GREAT. OWS WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS TO REMIND THEM OF THIS EVENT. ALL RESIDENTS IN THE FIRE KNOWN AREAS TAKE NOTE AND WATCH OUT FOR SUSPICIOUS CHARACTERS.

IF ANYTHING CHANGES OWS WILL LET YOU KNOW. THIS IS JUST A FRIENDLY WATCH OUT FOR YOU AHEAD OF TIME.



K. MARTIN


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Here is a novice question,,,,,I know how to radio in a mayday....but what is the proper way to announce a pan-pan or a securerite'? Would you say "Pan-pan, pan-pan, this is vessel abc we are taking on water but the pumps are keeping up." Then give your location and so-on? How would you phrase it over the radio.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Sample message (format ok, contents rubbish) - you want to say to whom the message is addressed, where you are and where you are going, the nature of the urgency, any action you hope someone might take and/or action you have taken/will take and then sign off. All that without too much wasted airtime. It is difficult to do absolutely correctly when under stress. 

"Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan. All Stations, All Stations, All Stations. 15m sailing vessel `Sobriety` location 23.8° South, 133.9° E bearing 090 at 5 knots. Have run out of alcohol, but DTs are no longer incapacitating captain. Heading erratically for nearest bar. Might need assistance if pink elephants appear. Standby on 16, `Sobriety` out."


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

The protocol is such:

1. "PAN-PAN [1-2 second pause] PAN-PAN [1-2 second pause] PAN-PAN" {pronounced "pahn-pahn"}

2. "All Stations (or name of a particular vessel)"

3. "This is (your boat name) [1-2 second pause] (your boat name) [1-2 second pause](Your boat name)"

4. "We (nature of emergerncy)"

5. "WE REQUIRE (type of assistance required, or other useful info such as position, description of your vessel, and / or number people on board."

6. "This is (your boat name) Over"

It is important to note that not to go overboard with descriptions, and to make the call trying to be panicky - instead taking a deep breath and be calm and talk slowly and clearly. A summary of description as listed above instead of full blown details (ie the writing of a novel - give what is pertinent) - as you are trying to hail someone and state the emergency...

If you transmit a such and you no longer need assistance then:

1. "PAN-PAN , PAN-PAN " {pronounced "pahn-pahn"}

2. "HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS"

3. "This is (your boat name) "

4. "TIME IS (transmission by 24 hr clock)"

5. "CANCEL PAN-PAN"

6. "This is (your boat name) Over"


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

We really can't make too many conclusions about what happened based on the terrific investigative reporting. Who knows if it was cases of Corona, a six pack of Corona or one freaking bottle. The media is notorious for rushing to press with stories without having their facts straight.

They should also spend just a wee bit more time proofing the article before publishing it. Check this quote from the MSNBC article:

"_Maybe he fell asleep while sleeping_"

Maybe he did. Or maybe he woke up while he was awake. Or maybe he went for a swim while he was swimming. Or perhaps he had a beer while he was drinking his beer.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

kwaltersmi said:


> We really can't make too many conclusions about what happened based on the terrific investigative reporting. Who knows if it was cases of Corona, a six pack of Corona or one freaking bottle. The media is notorious for rushing to press with stories without having their facts straight.
> They should also spend just a wee bit more time proofing the article before publishing it. Check this quote from the MSNBC article:


Careful !!!! You'll get them pissed, they will join the Hollywood writers strike - then we'll have no TV to watch .... And... no newspapers to read  ...... and it's Winter I've Got to Do Something


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Lectronic Lattitude 38 has a little write up including a picture of the cabin interior. It does look like a half dozen boxes of beer stored under the companion way ladder but it looks like only one box is open. The article says that the Coast Guard speculates the fella made it down to San Diego and waited off the coast for day break. They further speculate that he may have fallen asleep and then started a cigarette fire in the upholstry and then jumped overboard.

I'm also not much of a fan of "monday quarterbacking" but it seems that it's human nature.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-01-09&dayid=56#Story2


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Erps-

The other article said it was the television that had caught fire, according to a USCG officer, so I don't see how the LL38 is getting a cigarette-caused fire, unless the USCG has changed its mind on what happened. The MSNBC story names a USCG officer though, and the LL38 doesn't name anyone in specific.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

the TELEVISION?

Oh, dear...the poor man confused his boat with a reclining chair.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, if it was the upholstery that was singed and he had fallen asleep with a cigarette... it is possible that what caught fire was him... and that the boat was sitting at anchor or adrift when he decided to jump overboard to extinguish the flames.


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

At least we know a 30 foot Catalina will make it to hawaii with or without a skipper...or mast...all ya need is Corona


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> The guy was a novice sailor on a new to him boat. He was going to do a fairly long coastal trip (60 nm) with the Santa Ana winds blowing off the land. He had cases of Corona beer aboard...
> 
> I see so many problems with this, it ain't funny. First, he was a novice sailor on a new-to-him boat. That alone is a recipe for disaster.


Yes, not having been there and not knowing what really happened, I feel it is my duty to fully criticize this person, assume that he is incompetent, and that he can't possibly have done anything right. After all, what right does a novice sailor on a new-to-him boat have to be sailing his boat down the treacherous southern California coast? And 60 nm?!? What was he thinking? That will take all of a day or two!!! Believe me, I've been out there off the coast of San Diego, and only the saltiest of salts should be attempting that run. We call the Dana Point-to-San Diego route "threading the eye of the dragon"--Neptune himself wouldn't dare make this trip, let alone a novice sailor. Just a disaster waiting to happen...



sailingdog said:


> Second, he didn't file a float plan. That's why it's taken three months for anyone to realize he was missing-and the boat is now in Hawaii.
> 
> Third, the cases of Corona beer doesn't lead me to believe Bunker was the type to sail sober. Sailing and drinking don't mix well. Sailing singlehanded, on a new-to-you boat and drinking are a good way to win a Darwin Award.


Yes, if I have a case of Corona beer on board my boat, I would expect everyone to assume that I am a drunken idiot--certainly not the type of person to sail sober. I mean c'mon...what type of person has beer on his boat? Obviously the type that would be sailing drunk. Perfectly natural to jump to this conclusion and assassinate his character. I believe he also had a knife on board which leads me to believe that he was the type to kill someone with it. Sailing and stabbing don't mix well. Sailing singlehanded, on a new-to-you boat and stabbing are a good way to win a Darwin Award.



sailingdog said:


> Fourth, the Santa Ana winds were starting up. Santa Ana winds can be truly hellacious. I don't know if I'd want to be out sailing in them myself.
> 
> I'd be curious to know if the boat had jacklines run. I'm willing to bet it didn't. I'm also willing to bet he didn't have a harness and tether.


Yup, I have zero information on whether or not there were jacklines, a harness, and a tether, so why not assume that he didn't have them? It makes him sound like so much more of an idiot if we simply fabricate things that he did incorrectly rather than giving the guy any benefit of the doubt. I'd be curious to know if he had a Jordan Series Drogue. I'm willing to bet he didn't. I'm also wiling to be he didn't have an EPIRB and a life raft. The fool! He had everything he got coming to him.



sailingdog said:


> Finally, the boat had some indications of a fire aboard, yet no PAN-PAN or MAYDAY call was ever heard. *If I had a fire aboard, I'd at least want to issue a PAN-PAN about it... wouldn't you???*
> 
> UGH... it's stories like this that make me wonder.


Yup, I probably would issue a PAN-PAN or a MAYDAY, as would probably most people whose boat is on fire. I can see why you would jump to conclusions that he was too retarded to do this rather than there being a good, logical reason why he didn't. Maybe the fire blocked his access to the VHF, maybe he panicked and jumped ship...who knows? Not having been there, I can see how you feel entitled to immediately jump to the most asinine conclusion that he simply neglected to do this for no good reason.

UGH... it's comments like this that make me wonder.

OMFG


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

OMFG-

... I'm putting you on my ignore list. Buh-bye.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sd,
Seems like you and Giu have a knack for attracting the wackos!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Teshannon-

Unfortunately... but that means I'm in good company, since Gui is a friend of mine.


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## inshallamiami (Jan 2, 2004)

OMFG said:


> Yes, not having been there and not knowing what really happened, I feel it is my duty to fully criticize this person, assume that he is incompetent, and that he can't possibly have done anything right. After all, what right does a novice sailor on a new-to-him boat have to be sailing his boat down the treacherous southern California coast? And 60 nm?!? What was he thinking? That will take all of a day or two!!! Believe me, I've been out there off the coast of San Diego, and only the saltiest of salts should be attempting that run. We call the Dana Point-to-San Diego route "threading the eye of the dragon"--Neptune himself wouldn't dare make this trip, let alone a novice sailor. Just a disaster waiting to happen...
> 
> Yes, if I have a case of Corona beer on board my boat, I would expect everyone to assume that I am a drunken idiot--certainly not the type of person to sail sober. I mean c'mon...what type of person has beer on his boat? Obviously the type that would be sailing drunk. Perfectly natural to jump to this conclusion and assassinate his character. I believe he also had a knife on board which leads me to believe that he was the type to kill someone with it. Sailing and stabbing don't mix well. Sailing singlehanded, on a new-to-you boat and stabbing are a good way to win a Darwin Award.
> 
> ...


OMFG- I think you make some good points, and your post is lethally funny, but I also feel that these responses are a very human reaction to something that is very very scary. When I used to fly airplanes I noticed that whenever there was a crash many pilots would do this intense "post-mortem" in an attempt, I believe, to convince oneself that it couldn't happen to them! The reason that this terrible thing happened is because (fill in the blank) and therefore if you don't (fill in the blank) this terrible thing won't happen to you.

I've noticed that this is common amongst those "in harms way," from pilots, to sailors to nurses! rolleyes: )

Just my two cents.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

inshallamiami said:


> OMFG- I think you make some good points, and your post is lethally funny, but I also feel that these responses are a very human reaction to something that is very very scary. When I used to fly airplanes I noticed that whenever there was a crash many pilots would do this intense "post-mortem" in an attempt, I believe, to convince oneself that it couldn't happen to them! The reason that this terrible thing happened is because (fill in the blank) and therefore if you don't (fill in the blank) this terrible thing won't happen to you.
> 
> I've noticed that this is common amongst those "in harms way," from pilots, to sailors to nurses! rolleyes: )
> 
> Just my two cents.


Inshallamiama,

I agree. It just really burns me that some poor guy has presumably lost his life and Sailingdog is just tearing him apart and jumping to the most negative conclusions based on sheer speculation about what this guy may or may not have done right or wrong. We don't know too many of the details of what happened. Let's discuss it. Great! That's how we learn. Let's speculate, so that we can all maybe learn something from this tragic event. That's fine too&#8230;it's all we can do in the absence of other information. Maybe he was drinking, maybe he wasn't, but let's not jump right to the conclusion that he must have been drunkenly weaving his way down the coast while using his jacklines for suspenders and his pfd for a beer cozy, singing karaoke into his VHF while toasting marshmallows on the roaring fire that he built in his propane locker to stave off the evening chill from the gale force Santa Ana winds. Post-mortems are immensely valuable, but please let's do it in a way that respects the dead. We don't have any reason to believe that this guy is a candidate for a Darwin award. That is about as insulting an accusation as one can make given how little we know about what transpired. Maybe he did do everything wrong, but who here really believes that to be true? We all have our stupid moments and we all have moments of brilliance (I have had a lot of both), and usually our actions average out somewhere in between. Sailingdog may be absolutely perfect as a sailor and in everything he does, yet even if he were, it would still be no reason to assume that someone who lost their life must have done everything wrong and that their death was the inevitable outcome of their foolish choices. Is it really that ridiculous for a novice sailor to single-hand a boat on an incredibly easy 60 nm trip in some of the most docile sailing grounds in the country? It might not be the smartest thing in the world, but it isn't a completely idiotic thing to do either. Yes, the Santa Ana winds might have been "kicking up" as were reported in the story, but that still often only means 15-20 knot winds on the water instead of the normal 10 knot winds that predominate the San Diego area. The biggest problem with the Santa Ana winds is that they come from a different direction than most people are used to and they tend to have more wind shifts and gusts associated with them, but I would not hesitate for a minute to go out sailing around here with Santa Ana's in the forecast.

We don't know how much sailing experience he had, but at some point, we are all novices, and we need to push our limits somehow so that we can advance to the next level. He chose a path that didn't work out for him. That really, really, really sucks. I feel nothing but sadness and empathy for this man and his family. Maybe it is too easy for me to see myself in his shoes, pushing the envelope a little bit while pursuing a dream; doing something that on the surface seems a little bit of a stretch for my comfort zone but doesn't seem reckless, when something goes terribly wrong. I have been on a boat when a fire broke out, and I kept my head and controlled the situation. I feel fortunate that I made the right choices and I am still here today to talk about it. He just happens to be one of the unfortunate ones that didn't make it. It happens. It doesn't mean he is a bumbling fool that deserves our scorn and unreserved criticism.

He had a fire on his boat for Chrissakes. This is a relatively unusual event that has a high chance of ending badly for even a seasoned sailor. What the hell do jacklines and a tether have to do with a fire on board a boat? It's probably not the smartest thing for him to be solo sailing without them, but he wouldn't be the first and he won't be the last. I would hazard a guess that of the folks here on Sailnet who solo their boats that a huge percentage of them do not always wear a harness or even have jacklines installed. Does that make them candidates for a Darwin award, or is that honor only bestowed upon them if they also happen to have a few bottle of wine on board (i.e. drunkards) and Styrofoam plates in their life-sling bag? At some point, doing everything by the book gets a little ridiculous and we need to draw a line so that we can actually get out there and live our lives instead of wrapping ourselves in bubble wrap and hiring a professional skipper before heading out for a day sail into the deadly waters off the San Diego coast.

There are stupid risks and there are calculated risks. Given the little information that we have about this incident, I don't think we can say for sure whether this man did anything incredibly stupid. Yes, let's analyze and try to learn from what he did wrong-I am thankful for all the mistakes people have made before me so that I can learn from them and hopefully not make similar ones. But let's try to show a little respect and not automatically heap undeserved criticisms and scorn on someone just because they are approaching something a little differently or are taking risks a little differently than we would (or at least wait until we know the whole story to be sure that the criticism is deserved). There seems to be an awful lot of armchairing lately (this thread and the Flicka thread are the two most recent that come to mind) where there is so much criticism and jumping to conclusion based on incomplete, erroneous, or in some cases altogether absent information that it is difficult to tell if people are truly trying to discuss, learn, and share, or whether some people are only interested in using these opportunities to jerk-off to their encyclopedic knowledge of Vigor's 420 rules or quoting chapter and verse from Beth Leonard or Nigel Calder. This holier-than-thou attitude towards anyone who dares to be a novice and try to gain some experience on their own and make natural mistakes along the way gets awfully tiresome and a bit alienating to newer sailors here (like myself). I absolutely love the discussions and analyses of other people's adventures, their good fortunes, and their misfortunes because it is the next best way to learn other than by doing it ourselves; however, there is no reason for it to be done like a pack of jackals descending on a carcass and tearing it apart.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

The cases of Corona, Canned Food & Marlboro's ,Means you can rule out Dehydration, Starvation and Nicotine Fits. Since Dana to San Diego is only a one case of beer and one carton of cigarettes trip they also mean you cannot rule out a "judgement problem" on the part of the missing man.


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## TheFrog (Oct 25, 2007)

*Lots of beer*

Wow, in the picture on the LL38 article I count eight 12 packs of Corona. That is 96 beers for a 60nm sail? Assuming 4 knot speed he was looking at a 15 hour sail or a bit more than a 6 pack every hour. That is enough beer for a week or two for most of us. Could he have been planning an extended stay in an desolate spot?

Always sorry to see a sailor in trouble but got to ask the questions.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailing an unfamiliar 30' keelboat, 60nm down the coast with very little experience in sailing whatsoever, single-handed isn't exactly the wisest idea in the world, any way you look at it. This is a quote from the man who sold the boat to Bunker:



> "It was Darrin's dream to own and live on a sailboat, but he was a novice sailor, having only sailed on a Capri 14 and a few other small boats," McArthur said.


I doubt, from that description of Bunker, that he had much if any idea of coastal navigation.

Here is an excerpt from another article:



> The fate of a missing Aliso Viejo man whose sailboat turned up in Hawaii over the weekend remained a mystery today, *with his parents and siblings saying they haven't heard from him in nearly three years*.
> 
> "This totally blows me away," Dawn Bunker Giddings said of her brother, Darrin Frank Bunker, 42, who last was seen sailing out of Dana Point Harbor on Oct. 3 on his 30-foot Catalina, the Bug Trap.
> 
> Giddings, of Howell, Mich., said she first learned about her missing brother from news accounts.


Not speaking to your family for three years is not normal behavior for most people... OMFG will probably think that it is reasonable behavior, xxx

Mixing alcohol, inexperience, an unfamiliar boat, and a first overnight coastal passage is basically a recipe for disaster. Adding caffeine to the mix very likely makes the whole situation even worse. Caffeine doesn't sober you up...all it does is make you an jumpy, twitchy drunk.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Read, (then see) "Into The Wild"


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## LWinters (Nov 16, 2006)

SD, I say this with all due respect as I value your contributions to Sailnet, but OMFG has a valid point. Judging a persons sailing ability based in their relation with family and presence of beer amongst a live aboard's provisions is a huge stretch. I am all for post mortems for increasing all sailors knowledge about the best practices for sailing.

This sailor may have been very unprepared for this sail and it appears he paid for it with his life. Where there is no real information, it seems disrespectful to the deceased to automatically conclude the worst about an individual.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I don't know what happened. I don't have any reason to assume he was drunk...I carried 65lbs of coffee on my boat and many cases of beer before heading to the Bahamas since both were expensive there. If this had happened to me I would hope I wouldn't have been classified as a jumpy, twitchy drunk based on that evidence. 
I DO know that for a real novice to attempt a 60 mile coastal run in a new boat singlehanded is ill advised. To do it without proper safety equipment is rather foolhardy. That is more than testing one's limits. Whatever the other circumstances...the decision to leave the dock unprepared is the proximate cause of his death. RIP.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A couple points about alcohol and boating from the BoatUS site:



> As more states adopt strict operating-under-the-influence (OUI) laws that mirror stepped-up alcohol enforcement on the roads, boaters are coming under increasing scrutiny. Venturing out on the water after drinking, even after moderate social drinking, can be very hazardous.
> 
> According to the U.S. Coast Guard, alcohol is a major factor in as much as 50% of all recreational boating fatalities.
> 
> ...


From the same article, regarding the effects of just a single drink:



> After one drink, the BAC of our subjects, all of different body types, ranged form .02% to .05%. Three of the four failed the eye exercise in the field sobriety test, indicating that some people show signs of impairment well before legal intoxication. All subjects performed adequately on the water although two maintained slightly erratic control over boat speed. And the same two hit the dock.


From the USCG boating safety website:



> When a boater or passenger drinks, the following occur:
> 
> Cognitive abilities and judgment deteriorate, making it harder to process information, assess situations, and make good choices.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that Bunker was out and out blotto, falling down drunk. But, he didn't need to be in order for alcohol to have affected him adversely.

If the television caught fire as indicated by some reports, and Bunker had been drinking at all, even a single beer, his ability to react properly to the situation may have been compromised seriously. Say he got singed by the fire and went to the cockpit to cool off his injuries... with a single beer, he very well might have been impaired enough to fall overboard instead of just getting wet.

The photo posted on the Latitude site shows at least one of the packages of Corona was opened, and I seriously doubt that he wasn't drinking, if he had brought that much beer along for an overnight sail. It also shows the some singed items, like the red cloth in the bottom center of the photo.










As for Cam's response, I seriously doubt that Corona beer is considerably more expensive in San Diego, than it was up in Dana Point. They're both in California, and not all that far apart geographically. _Carrying 65 lbs. of coffee and many cases of beer *on a cruise that is going to be weeks, if not months in duration*, is a fairly different story from carrying cases of beer on *an overnight sail* to a destination that has the same beer at close to the same price. _


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

If it was an overnight sail, isn't it safe to speculate that he wasn't planning on drinking that many cases of beer?

This leads me to believe that the high number of cases on board isn't indicative of how many he might have drank.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I have a question, ( only a thought really ) but it's a 9.5 - 11 hr sail from DP to SD with Oceanside being a easy half day/midway waypoint, why would you then stock up on cases of beer and soda, cartons of cigs and lots of can goods to make basicly a one day sail.

Just seems kinda odd to me, which raises many question.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Well, he was planning to live-aboard once he got to San Diego, correct? Maybe he had a car while in Dana Point and did his shopping while it was convenient, while he had transportation and while he could do it at a place he was familiar with. That way he would be stocked up for a while so he could familiarize himself with San Diego.

There's no way he was planning on downing all 8 cases of Corona and two cases of Mountain Dew during his ~12 hour sail. I agree that there is certainly a possibility that the beer was involved in the tragedy, but it's not a certainty. 

I can't believe we're filling up multiple forum pages debating this man's Corona.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

Maybe he got a crazy idea that he would take off to hawai'i, bought some beer and smokes and spam and chased the sun (pure speculation)


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

KODAD said:


> Maybe he got a crazy idea that he would take off to hawai'i, bought some beer and smokes and spam and chased the sun (pure speculation)


I was kind of thinking that myself. Seriously, how improbable (or probable) would it be for an abandoned sailboat to get from southern California to Kauai? Would the currents/wind drive it there?


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## CalypsoP35 (Jul 24, 2006)

*How high is that horse?*

SD, You have ranted on about alcohol on a number of threads here in Sailnet. You have given us the insight as to why you feel so strongly about this topic, but we can't change the past and you can't or shouldn't label anyone with alcohol aboard their boat as drunk or assume they are irresponsible.


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## LWinters (Nov 16, 2006)

I had the exact same thought that San Diego might never have been his destination. I have no idea if the wind and currents would eventually lead a boat to HI or not, but I did calculate the days run needed to get there in three months.

At ~2,500 miles and three months missing the boat would have to average ~27 miles a day. Even with a strong current and assuming the boat might have had sail up and was pointed the right way most of the time before being dismasted that seems like a lot of "drift".

Caution: Pure speculation warning! Does anyone know the Pacific wind and current tables well enough to know how probable it is that a boat could drift that distance and end up off the big island?


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## swadiver (Jan 17, 2007)

This incident hits somewhat close to home because in April of 2007 I moved my new-to-me Catalina 30 from Oceanside to her current slip in Long Beach. A distance of 59 NM. The entire trip took me 11.5 hours of motor-sailing. No Santa Ana's that day thank you very much. However, I did get into my marina after dark, which was quite an experience since I had to transit the Long Beach outer harbor at night for the first time. I made this trip solo and yes I did wear a PFD the entire time and was teathered into the cockpit.

Navigate to the attached web site for pictures and a rough current map. According to the map it is possilble to transit from So Cal to Hawaii by current alone.

By the way I read that it was this guys dream to live aboard a sailboat and he had been doing that for some months at Danna Pt. while he was taking lessons from the PO. That might explain the well stocked boat.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/article_1955884.php


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

The forum for the OC Register sure has some interesting theories. Check this gem:

"Couldn't finish paying for the boat, set it on fire, jumped off soon after leaving the shore, swam back, now working in an Arizona Wal-Mart."

Or this one:

"I'm surprised that all the conspiracy theorists that usually post didn't pick up on the fact that the missing guy still owed money to McArthur, and coincidentally a friend of a friend of McArthur found the boat in Hawaii, where McArthur used to live. Hmmm...interesting..."


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## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

sailingdog said:


> BTW, if you don't know the difference between Securité, PAN-PAN and MAYDAY you probably should learn.


I think you are being too diplomatic, SD. Anyone who is out on the water without basic knowledge like this is a danger to him/herself and to others.

Ccrider, you should take a Basic Boating course with the USCGA, and also buy a book like "Chapman Piloting and Seamanship" where there is a whole chapter on radio procedures. You should know this stuff even if you only go as crew on someone else's boat.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

LWinters said:


> I had the exact same thought that San Diego might never have been his destination.


That was my thought also, Santa Catalina Channel is a very active channel, recreational sail & power boats, sportfishing, Commercial fishing and commercial shipping lane, not to mention USCG and private aircraft.

I find it odd a disabled ( demasted ) SV drifted through a highly active channel & past two Islands only to drift aimlessly to Kauai.

The current in the outter waters run SW, waters in the inner channel runs SSW and are slightly stronger. If you all remember a while back, a guy left Marina Del Ray headed NW toward the Channel Islands, he encountered very strong Santana winds, at some point he was knocked or fell overboard, his boat ended up on the rocks @ newport jetty, his body was found 7 days later off Catalina.

Bottom line IMO is,

a) If he was headed for SD, the boat would have ended up in SD with him or somewhere in the vacinity on the rocks without him, just due to the current and dominate onshore flow.

b) Had he manage to drift undetected throughout the channel to the outter waters, chances are he would have drifted WSW past the Island of Hawaii and not WNW against the current to Kauai, which is the Northern most Island.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

PDP-

You're assuming that it was dismasted prior to leaving the California coastal zone... It very well could have been dismasted somewhere between California and Hawaii.


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## Turbot2 (Sep 18, 2006)

Its amazing that the Bug Trap survived the 2600 odd mile drift to Kauai without 
any water entering the cabin...all of the the hatches must have been closed.
Note from the USCG pictures that his radio faceplate and mike were melted and burned as well as surrounding items. Apparently there were two gas cans in the cabin, one with the cap off. Maybe he was doing something with the gas can while smoking a cigarette (a no no of course  )......splashed the gas 
and boom, his clothes and the cabin on fire, ran out closing the door and jumped overboard ?? fire burns all the oxygen in the cabin, goes out ?? 
See, ocregister dot com /ocregister/news/local/danapoint/article_1956725.php


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Having looked at the photos of the interior of the boat my theory is that he set it adrift, flew to Portugal, and now resides in the boat next to Giu's.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given the video in the OC news video clip, it is pretty obvious why Bunker didn't call a PAN-PAN or MAYDAY, his radio was behind the fire. The radio looks a bit melted. 

Something is a bit fishy though. If the fire was intense enough to melt the radio face and damage the microphone cord—why didn't boat just burn to the waterline and sink.... most fires on boats are not anywhere close to self-extinguishing. Most boats have dry chemical fire extinguishers... since CO2 foam ones are really marine approved IIRC. Yet, I don't see any of the powder you'd expect to see if one had been discharged in the cabin.


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

OMFG said:


> Inshallamiama,
> 
> I agree. It just really burns me that some poor guy has presumably lost his life and Sailingdog is just tearing him apart and jumping to the most negative conclusions based on sheer speculation about what this guy may or may not have done right or wrong. We don't know too many of the details of what happened. Let's discuss it. Great! That's how we learn. Let's speculate, so that we can all maybe learn something from this tragic event. That's fine too&#8230;it's all we can do in the absence of other information. Maybe he was drinking, maybe he wasn't, but let's not jump right to the conclusion that he must have been drunkenly weaving his way down the coast while using his jacklines for suspenders and his pfd for a beer cozy, singing karaoke into his VHF while toasting marshmallows on the roaring fire that he built in his propane locker to stave off the evening chill from the gale force Santa Ana winds. Post-mortems are immensely valuable, but please let's do it in a way that respects the dead. We don't have any reason to believe that this guy is a candidate for a Darwin award. That is about as insulting an accusation as one can make given how little we know about what transpired. Maybe he did do everything wrong, but who here really believes that to be true? We all have our stupid moments and we all have moments of brilliance (I have had a lot of both), and usually our actions average out somewhere in between. Sailingdog may be absolutely perfect as a sailor and in everything he does, yet even if he were, it would still be no reason to assume that someone who lost their life must have done everything wrong and that their death was the inevitable outcome of their foolish choices. Is it really that ridiculous for a novice sailor to single-hand a boat on an incredibly easy 60 nm trip in some of the most docile sailing grounds in the country? It might not be the smartest thing in the world, but it isn't a completely idiotic thing to do either. Yes, the Santa Ana winds might have been "kicking up" as were reported in the story, but that still often only means 15-20 knot winds on the water instead of the normal 10 knot winds that predominate the San Diego area. The biggest problem with the Santa Ana winds is that they come from a different direction than most people are used to and they tend to have more wind shifts and gusts associated with them, but I would not hesitate for a minute to go out sailing around here with Santa Ana's in the forecast.
> 
> ...


I agree with you here.

Too bad there is a life lost here (apparently) because some of the speculation is good enough for a novel. Maybe someone will make a movie out of it.......but then I will not see it.........Oh dang!

This seems to be a pretty small community here and though there is info to be gleaned there is an awful lot of crap to get through. Often not worth it.
There is another forum that has much of the same questions and answers without the crap.
Nothing personal here.........just the way things are.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

* There is another forum that has much of the same questions and answers without the crap.
Nothing personal here.........just the way things are.

*...and there is ANOTHER community that has the same information and WAY more crap. Everyone has lots of choices...just the way things are.

As to "small community"...there are 20,800 members on SA, Cruisers Forum has 9000, SSCA has 2400, Lats & Atts has 1725

We have 113,000 active members. 700 on line in the last 24 hours and about 10x that many lurkers. Small in relation to what?


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> * There is another forum that has much of the same questions and answers without the crap.
> Nothing personal here.........just the way things are.
> 
> *...and there is ANOTHER community that has the same information and WAY more crap. Everyone has lots of choices...just the way things are.


I thought you might take it personally.
That is why I qualified my statement.
Sorry.
I don't bother with the ones with WAY more crap at all.
Just not worth it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually, on the bright side, the boat made pretty good time to Hawaii. I wish there was more detail, but if he left on the 3rd a Wednesday, then the boat was found on a Sunday, the 7th, he made (well he didn't but the boat did) in almost record time.

If that's the case, I'd like to know the make of the boat and the PHRF.

OK, OK, I saw it, it was a couple months? San Diego to Dana Pt. is 66 mi on a rhumb line course. Santa Ana (Santana) winds blow from there from the E to N E., and generally extend several miles out to sea or til the wind cools down over colder ocean water.

The locals (catalina and channel Islands) have a term for what happened: "Darwinism". All in all, shouldn't have left the boat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Therapy...no prob. Did NOT take it personally...just making some additional points in response. I regularly visit all those other places myself...and there is stuff of value on all of them depending on my mood. Seems like our mix is the most popular though.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> Given the video in the OC news video clip, it is pretty obvious why Bunker didn't call a PAN-PAN or MAYDAY, his radio was behind the fire. The radio looks a bit melted.
> 
> Something is a bit fishy though. If the fire was intense enough to melt the radio face and damage the microphone cord-why didn't boat just burn to the waterline and sink.... most fires on boats are not anywhere close to self-extinguishing. Most boats have dry chemical fire extinguishers... since CO2 foam ones are really marine approved IIRC. Yet, I don't see any of the powder you'd expect to see if one had been discharged in the cabin.


It certainly is a plausible answer to the mystery of the lack of distress call. I agree about the strangeness of the fire putting itself out. The only fire (and hopefully the last fire) I have ever had on a boat did put itself out, but it was only because it was a small, smoldering fire in the electrical panel. Nothing else caught on fire, but I was two seconds away from pulling the trigger on the extinguisher. The only reason I hesitated was the thought of having to clean up the mess. LOL, probably not the smartest reason for hesitating to put out a fire on the boat. Fortunately I can live and learn from my experience, unlike this guy Bunker.

M


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I would like to assosciate myself with OMFG's comments. These topics run right off the rails when someone speculates on some minute point and then that becomes the topic; we construct a resume of the person with no available facts.

The average boater probably has little or no knowledge of Securite, Pan, or Mayday broadcasts. About all that can be hoped for is that they'd take a USCG-Aux course. Most will not spend the staggering amount of time necessary to educate themselves, and will prefer to learn as they go. Them's the facts.

If you have any hopes of re-using any of the electrics, you'll use a CO2 extinguisher on the fire. Dry chemical destroys the wiring. Foam extinguishers, which only use CO2 to produce the foam, not as an extinguishing agent per se, are only suitable for oil fires. The foam floats on the oil or water and smothers the fire. They are ineffective on electrical fires and unsafe for that use. Dry chemical should be used with caution on a boat. The dry chemical may make the boat uninhabitable post fire and on staying on deck may not be an option. CO2 works quite well for most fires encountered on board. Given the nature and size of boats, if a fire get's out of hand, with limited fire-fighting capabilities, it makes perfect sense to button up the cabin and use smothering or oxygen deprivation to extinguish the fire. Generally on board ship, the opposite of shore-side practise is employed. Shore-side fire fighters tend to want to ventilate the fire so that manpower can safely get to the source of the flames and so as to reduce the obscuring smoke. On board ship, ventilation is immediately shut down to prevent the travel of fire and to begin to deny it oxygen. When a fire get's out of control on a boat, it might be wise to button her up and discharge the as much CO2 into the sealed compartment as possible. While this technique may not put out your fire as quickly and effectively as fighting it directly with an unlimited supply of extinguishers, it may well prevent the fire from burning the boat to the waterline and prevent the contemplation of a very, very long swim.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> PDP-
> 
> You're assuming that it was dismasted prior to leaving the California coastal zone...


That I am SD, just trying to figure out how someone intending to sail to SD could end up off Kauai

If he intended to sail to the Islands and not SD, then I could understand, maybe; but if he was headed to San Diego and something happened, I would think the sailboat would have made land somewhere between La Jolla and Ensanada.

But that's just me thinking


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

No sail plan and the boat actually making it to hawaii makes me wonder like some here if SD was his true destination. Wonder if he had a slip bought and paid for or a deposit on one at least. Not sure if we will ever know the outcome of a well conducted investigation, if one was even performed.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I believe I read somewhere that he was borrowing a slip from the previous owner of his boat when he was to arrive in San Diego.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

According to the articles I've seen, he had a slip in San Diego, as well as one up in Dana Point...


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

This is how weird this whole thing is. First, seller sells a boat to a basic unknown person, he takes a 50% down payment and spends time with the buyer getting him accustom to the boat, then he allows him to singlehand his boat, which is still in his name, still has a balanced owed of 9000.00, 60 nm south to a area that would be almost impossible to find the guy if the buyer was intending to stiff him.

Secondly, the fact that the seller did not report that (a) the boat was overdue in SD or (b) the boat was possibly stolen as the buyer still had a balance, after not hearing from the guy for so long.

But then, it's also possible that anyone of those reports were made and the news report just omitted it.

Right now the whole thing smells really fishy and we may never know the whole story, other than another soul was lost, and that's the sad part


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Latest on missing sailor

http://www.thelog.com/news/logNewsArticle.aspx?x=4932


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

New article, but not much new news. I'm guessing it'll go down as another unsolved mystery.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Boat is currently on E- Bay w/ supplys !


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