# Opinions about this C&C 30 Mk1



## Pete_the_Puma (Nov 7, 2016)

Hi all,

First post here although I have been regularly stalking the forums.

I'm a fairly inexperienced but already highly passionate sailor looking to buy my first boat to sail/learn on.

I'd be primarily day sailing with my wife (crew) and any friends/family (passengers) who want to come along for the ride on Lake Champlain in VT/NY. We have both taken a limited number of sailing classes here and are going to the BVI this winter to take an extensive week long course at the end of which we will hopefully have an "ASA104 Bareboat crusing" certification.

I have found a boat here that I like and seems in decent shape. It's a 1974 C&C 30 mkI, 5foot draft version.

***EDIT: it will not let me post links, you can pull up the listing by googling: "Bruce hill yacht sales" and then sorting by price. It's a 1974 C&C 30mkI for 14,700$

I was wondering what the sailnet community though of this particular boat, the price and things to look for. I inspected the boat in person and although it needs a few things done I am by no means an experienced surveyor. Would obviously get a full professional survey before buying it. It has the original 1974 Atomic 4 gas engine!!

Overall I'm looking to spend 16-18k$ on a boat, it could be 14K$ for the boat and 3k$ for upgrades/repairs or 10k$ for the boat and 7k$ in repairs/upgrades...

I was wondering if any other boats through this seller seem more appropriate (Bruce Hill in VT, follow the link). I was considering the Tartan 33 for 19K$

***EDIT: It blocked the link again, google: "Bruce hill yacht sales", sort by price. It's the 1983 Tartan 33 listed at 19,000$

but then would have zero left over to fix things...


Any input is appreciated!


Pete


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The C&C looks clean enough, and appears to have been looked after. Classic boat (though the listing lists it as a 'full keel', it definitely is a 70s fin & spade) with good habits.

Interesting to compare the two T33s.. one at half the price. The presentations pretty much sum up the difference, but much of that is cosmetic so the low price worries me as to what we can't see in the pictures. This would be an 'eyes wide open' situation. Are there keel attachment issues? Is the engine on its last legs? etc etc

It's worth mentioning that you might buy the cheaper T33 and have more that the current price of the 'nice one' into it by the time it's truly a going concern. Suck it up and pay now, and sail now.... However that depends on the true difference between the boats, the actual issues, and your ability (or lack thereof) to address them properly.

I've always liked the T33, decent interior and cockpit, fractional rig, 'handsome' boat.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

There is a sticky thread on boat inspection: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/48177-boat-inspection-trip-tips.html
My first reaction was, he typed an extra zero on that price for a 42 year old boat. The boat does have new sails so add a few thousand, and its clean, another grand. IMHO offer him $5k contingent on a survey. Don't fall in love with the boat.


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## Pete_the_Puma (Nov 7, 2016)

Skipper Jer said:


> There is a sticky thread on boat inspection: [...] My first reaction was, he typed an extra zero on that price for a 42 year old boat. The boat does have new sails so add a few thousand, and its clean, another grand. IMHO offer him $5k contingent on a survey. Don't fall in love with the boat.


Thanks for the quick replies. I just want to make sure I understand you right:

You think I should offer them 5k$ for a boat listed at 14,700$? That would be great if I could get it for anywhere close to that price!


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

That guy certainly has a bunch of clean boats listed.

Personally. I like the '84 C&C 29 mark II:
Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)

Clean, well equipped, good sail inventory, etc.

The Tartan looks good too - i have always like those boats and they were on my list back in 2006 when i was looking for a 33-36 boat. They are kind of dark down below but have a great reputation.

Don't get hung up on the asking price. Look the boats over and then make an offer you are comfortable with. No, you are not going to get the Tartan 33 for $5K. Maybe $15K.

Good luck,

Barry


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Regarding the C&C - some things I notice:

- Blue painted hull - will get hot, hard to keep looking good, and as a first time boat owner, you will scrape the docks more than once, and have big white scrapes showing.
- Cabintop has been reinforced at the bulkheads - check carefully around that portion of cabin top for softness in the core.
- Strange reinforcements at bottom of mast - maybe just a C&C thing.
- I would say also it is overpriced, but at the same time, they aren't going to take $6000 for it.
- None of above means "don't get it" - just stuff I notice that you would want to look at closely in person.

But frankly, I like this Tartan 30 better, and it is half the price at $6900, which leaves alot of room in your budget for upgrades:

Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)

Looks to be in similar shape, and they are really sweet sailing boats, and a bit better built than C&C. Awlgrip on the topsides won't easily scrape off, and engine access on these is about as good as you can get. It also has a nice dodger, which will cost around $4000 to add to the C&C.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Don't worry about the old Atomic 4 engine. If it checks out well at survey, it will probably keep running for a long time. They are quiet, durable, and easy to work on. 

If any of those boats have been on the market for a while, you may be able to talk them down a bunch. Buying a boat is not like buying a car, or house.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Barquito said:


> Don't worry about the old Atomic 4 engine. If it checks out well at survey, it will probably keep running for a long time. They are quiet, durable, and easy to work on.
> 
> .....


I'd agree with that to a degree, and especially if the engine is FWC.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I like the 84 MkII of the bunch. More Modern looks really clean, T cockpit.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

As sad as it makes me to say, that is NOT a $14K boat. The selling price will never come close to that. Granted the seller has every right to ask whatever he wants, and maybe he will get lucky, and maybe I will win the powerball.

The 29 MKII with the Yanmar is not really a better sailing boat but a MUCH better deal (pending survey of course). If you are prepared to pay over 10K then start negotiating on this boat, but this boat IS NOT a 20K boat. If you are ready to pay anything close to the 15K for the 30 then the 29 is your boat.

The C&C30MKI is a great boat and a very forgiving boat to cut your teeth on! _Find a broker who will show you comparable SELLING prices for the boats you are looking at_.

I'm a C&C guy, but the market for these types of boats is dying. The good news is they are at the bottom of their deprication and if you get either at the correct price you can't lose much.

This broker has some nice boats but some of the prices seem out of touch.

YMMV... good luck and keep us posted.


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## Pete_the_Puma (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks all for the amazing replies!

From my research so far it seems like the C&C 30 MKI is really the superior sailing vessel. This boat looked very clean despite being 42 years old. The wood around the mast step was slightly "humid" and bowing, some of the deck hardware had to be reseated/resealed and the electrical might need some rewiring to be up to code (is there Code on the water or is that a state by state thing?) but overall it was clear someone had taken great care of this boat. I might be falling in love despite your warning SkipperJer!!

The prices are fixed by the seller and the broker just acts as a go between buyer and seller (taking a cut no doubt). From when I saw the boat I think the broker was trying to tell me between the lines that he also thought the price was high but obviously he can't flat out say that.

I'm just trying to figure out a decent initial offer so I don't insult the sellers. I'm thinking of offering maybe 9-10K$ pending a real survey of course. What do you guys think?


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## Pete_the_Puma (Nov 7, 2016)

About the mast step:

This is from an Article by a gentleman named John Boros, found at CnCphotoablum dot com
*
Problem Areas*
_The mast step, the seat or pocket into which the mast sits, was originally made of wood up to hull no.# 651. As it sits in a damp /wet area atop the keel, it has had the tendency of weakening and, therefore, deflecting downward. Models #652 and up came with mast steps made of an aluminum casting which was resistant to this problem. The lacquer on the spars has now had many years of hard weather, not to mention the new UV phenomenon. In many cases, the lacquer is worn off and the aluminum prone to oxidation. Painting the spars is the most popular, aesthetic and cost effective resolution to this problem. Also, if a previous owner has neglected to tighten and seal deck hardware as a requirement of the regular maintenance procedure, the deck balsa core may get wet. It would be prudent for a perspective buyer to ask his surveyor to carefully inspect the deck for water damaged balsa core. When considering the purchase of one of these gems, should the need exist, these repair costs should be factored into the purchase price of the boat. Remember, to survey before you buy is always the safest and best route._


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

I have a few questions for the OP, and a general forum question:

1) Why are you looking at 30-foot sailboats? Is it because that's the size that fits your sailing needs or because that's the size that fits you budget, or because of some other reason? I ask because I haven't figured out the appeal for that size boat. IMO, too big and complex for daysailing, too small for fun, comfortable overnights.

2) Why do you care about insulting the seller? Offer what you think the boat is worth to you. If that's not enough for the seller, the worst he can do is say, "No." Then you walk away and look for another boat. Now if you are just dicking around hoping to get a naive or distresed seller, then you are just wasting everybody's time and you should already be ashamed of yourself.

3) General question: Why do boats have so much salon space and so little berth space. For a daysailor or weekender, I would prefer a large cockpit and a nice fornicatorium. I don't go out on a boat to spend time sitting on an uncomfortable bench inside a fiberglass tube. I'm either outdoors or doing bedroom activities.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

The 1974 C&C 30 looks decent enough to me, except for the price might be a bit high, resale on boats with Atomic 4's is not great, although they work fine.

I actually think 30' is a great size for a first cruising boat, I wouldn't agree they don't have enough space for cruising, because I lived on my pevious boat, a Grampian 30- year round, before I bought my current boat. Small enough to easily single hand, big enough to spend a couple of comfortable weeks on.


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## Stdenisbros (Nov 20, 2016)

I sail a 1979 C&C 30 on Lake Champlain. It's a great layout for a couple. The wet maststep is an issue, ours is nice and dry. We paid 11500 USD for a solid boat (with yanmar diesel) that needs rigging upgrades.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

jwing said:


> I have a few questions for the OP, and a general forum question:
> 
> 1) Why are you looking at 30-foot sailboats? Is it because that's the size that fits your sailing needs or because that's the size that fits you budget, or because of some other reason? I ask because I haven't figured out the appeal for that size boat. IMO, too big and complex for daysailing, too small for fun, comfortable overnights.
> 
> ...


I just learned a new word. Thank you.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

jwing said:


> I have a few questions for the OP, and a general forum question:
> 
> 3) General question: Why do boats have so much salon space and so little berth space. For a daysailor or weekender, I would prefer a large cockpit and a nice fornicatorium..


The dinette on the 30MKI drops down to a nice sized platform. The plus is there is not much distance to fall and plenty of places to brace yourself. The keel stepped mast can double as a pole for dancing. The V berth is pretty large, designed for two adults to 'sleep' in.

If the boat has auto pilot, stand at the base of the V berth, stick your head out the hatch to watch for obstructions, and you will find the mattress is just the right height for getting done what needs to be done.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)
Good looking boat. Clean, well cared for. Solid design. If it surveys well it is likely worth 9-10 grand in today's market. If you really like it, go for it, but be firm in your resolve to keep price target low. There is a glut of decent older boats on the market so you should expect a good deal. Boat is a luxury item that you can afford to be picky about.


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## Pete_the_Puma (Nov 7, 2016)

Well after a survey and some negotiations back and forth the boat is ours for 9,000$. Now getting some of the minor issues fixed and trying to be patient until the spring! Thanks all for the input and comic relief.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Pete_the_Puma said:


> Well after a survey and some negotiations back and forth the boat is ours for 9,000$. Now getting some of the minor issues fixed and trying to be patient until the spring! Thanks all for the input and comic relief.


Congratulations ! Keep us posted on the repairs/upgrades.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Pete_the_Puma said:


> Well after a survey and some negotiations back and forth the boat is ours for 9,000$.


That is exactly what I estimated. Congratulations and good luck! Don't invest much in that boat. Just fix things that absolutely must be fixed. Get to know the boat by sailing as much as possible and see how you like her, and if you want to keep her for a while. I would only invest money in the boat if I wanted to keep it for a long time.


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