# new cal 20 owner looking for information



## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

I found an old cal 20 and have grand ideas for it that are probably stupid. Before I can attempt any of them though I need to get the boat together. I posted in the introduction area ans had 212 views and not one response.

Hull numer 807 if I remember right from the title built in 1968. I was 8 years old when it was built. I havent sounded the entire deck but so far it seems rigid, no soft spots. It still has all the original teak below decks too so someone had to have taken care of it.

I'm not bringing it home till next year as I'm building it a new home in rather then storing it outside under canvas in the brutal Michigan winters. I suppose I could store it at a marina too but wantit close to work on for awhile.

I have never had a call 20 or any other sail boat. I have sailed small cat boats a few times but not enough to consider myself close to knowing anything about sailing.

I have no idea what size sheets, hayards, shrouds etc... to use or how they are rigged. A friend bought this boat in 1998 as a roadside boat but never did anything with it except store it in his equipment barn. Last year he past away suddenly so if he knew anything about it all that information is gone too. The mast boom rudder and looks like maybe a whisker pole is on the ground next too the boat. I was given the boat but was wondering if anyone could tell me from this discription a ball park of what it might be worth? They paid 600.00 us for it in 1998. I don't like taking things that have a value without paying something for them especially from a widow even if she was left very well set by her husband.

I have read plain sailing, The complete sailor and Sailing - the basics. I've done enough research to find that the shheets and halyards sold by at least one store for cal 20s is 56 to 60' long and 5/16" dia. Is this adequate or would 3/8 or 7/16 be better? 

I did not know enough when I looked over this boat what to look for but one thing that is bothering me is that all the rigs I have seen for cal 20s were hinged and this boat has a round hole not a plate for the mast. However it is not all the way through the deck so am I just missing a deck mast step ? Not sure that's the right terminology but I'm sure the exprienced folks here will understand.

Right now I'm posting this via my nook reader so when I get on my computer I will supply some photos. 

Any and all information on this will help. Thanks in advance for any and all the help anyone can give me


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

A quick google found this:

http://www.ewind.com/user/sfcal20/cal20-owners-manual.pdf

Which may answer most all of your questions? Yes I see there is a hinged mast step so you would need to find one.

More here, note the new price back in the '60s was only $3200. :

Cal 20 by Jensen Marine ? Used Sailboat For Sale | Small Blue Water Cruising Sailboats

It seems good ones, fully equipped, go for about that price now:
Cal 20 sailboat

And a forlorn one with parts missing, sitting around for years, might be something you just take off their hands, no money expected ?

But for a "near abandoned" boat, the Cal 20, if still structurally sound, is a hidden gem, with many folks still racing them. Good daysailer, fun to race, decent little pocket cruiser. You will want to check, and likely replace, the mast stays, as 50 years old is double their expected life and they corrode in the sockets where you can't see them. But hull, mast and boom should still be okay and everything else (sheets, halyards) are easily renewable. You'll likely want an outboard motor.

Get on one of these web sites and you should find what you need, such as what diameter sheets.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

great boat Sailed and raced one when I was in high school. the boat is worth about $3k in good sailing shape. in the condition you describe not worth much, you will be doing them a favor by taking it away. your friend would want you to have it. did you get the sails? don't remember the mast step but i think we had a foldable step for trailering but never had a trailer and never took the mast down. the largest line on the boat would be 3/8" for the sheets and 1/4" or 5/16" for the halyards. Good luck with the new project


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Our club (Half Moon Bay Yacht Club) has a fleet of Cal 20s and there's an active racing group of Cal 20s on San Francisco Bay. We have often gotten our boats free (or very close to free), with club members putting in the sweat to keep them in good condition, and the club paying for the costs, which aren't cheap. There is bottom paint, non-skid, sails, rigging and sheets to buy. Maybe even epoxy and filler for any holes. You might also need to add some backing plates to the undersides where the winches and shrouds are bolted. These can get soft over time. The first time to buy all this is going to hurt ($$), but if you look around and plan, you can find some deals and get things second hand. The boat itself in the condition you describe does not seem to be worth anything. You should be able to find plenty of information online about the Cal20 and the local marine stores can help you, too. 

The mast hinges at a flange on the deck. At least that's how ours look, but it is possible this is an aftermarket fix. I can take some pictures if you do take the boat and if you can't find any info on the web about this. 

Overall, they are great boats. Not fast, but sturdy and fun to sail. They have a great PHRF (~240) so if you plan to race and you can figure out how to fly a spinnaker, you could be really competitive, especially in light winds. 

I missed your introduction so apologies for the delayed WELCOME!!


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Thank you all for the info. I feel rather foolish as nolatom suggested looking at the owners manual to see what it had on rigging. Well I had breezed through that several times looking at different items never seeing the page on rigging requirements.....duh. well I have it now thanks to nolatom. Thanks for the Phrf on the cal 20. I found the " how to calc phrf" article but had not done it yet. The sails are with the boat or rather in their closet and I haven't taken a look at them yet. I'm hoping to get a season of learning out of them but since they washed them I'll bet they have been folded in the bag since 98 so I'm not sure how they will be. I will keep you all posted on the restoration although so far it only looks like the keel needs refinished and painted and minor above and below deck work. I even found some 4 inch poly foam set out for free that looks as it may fit nearly perfect for the bow birth and some that may work for one of the other births this week so the search is on and I'm collecting and looking forward to another project that this time is for My enjoyment...ps my wife thinks I'm crazy to do this at 54 but like I told her. "What keeps me moving and shaking keeps me young". She finally agreed to learn something about sailing yesterday though when I asked her what she was going to do when I fell over board? I think it scared her into learning. But that's a good thing.....unless she kicks me over board....hmm maybe I should be scared


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

You bring up a good point. If it doesn't have one, you should mount a stern ladder though even with this, it can be extremely hard to get back on board. MOB drills can be fun, as long as you're not the MOB! Good luck


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

That is a ver good suggestion. Can anyone supply photos/designs of a stern platform or ladder with a hung rudder/tiller setup as the cal 20s have? I have not seen one on any photos I have seen yet.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

It would be just a small pull down ladder bolted into one side of the stern. I'll try to remember to take a picture of one on Saturday.


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks gamyaun its apreciated. I attached five photos let me know what you think of the ball park looks


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

A couple more photos.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmm, about the only thing that doesn't look like a total wreck on this boat is the hull. It appears that the bulkheads (?) or dividers that separate the V-berth from the salon have been removed. This could weaken the top deck. Make sure it doesn't feel spongy up there near the mast. Since it has been in a barn all this time, you don't really know how water tight things are until you put it back in the water, so you might want to drop the keel bolts and rebed them. Not too hard to do. Make sure you use nice big washers and install brackets (aft and forward) across two pairs of bolts to use to hoist the boat. Does the keel look pretty straight? Is there much rust on it. You can fair and epoxy those spots. That keel picture is hard to discern, but it looks like the bottom is in fairly good shape. You'll want to put new bottom paint and non-skid on the decks thought there is so much grime, it's a little hard to tell. Do you have the mast and boom? I don't see them in the pictures. Any rigging, shrouds and halyards? I don't see a rudder and tiller in the pictures either. Basically this boat is in very poor condition. Have you taken possession of the boat yet? I would offer to take it off the person's hands because it's not worth anything and I'd be surprised if he could sell it. If you don't want to offend him, offer him $300. The trailer might be worth a little money but even that looks mostly homemade. If you have a few thousand dollars to spare, you could have yourself a nice little sailing boat this next spring. Keep us posted on how it goes!


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Gamayun, would you have a photo of the bulkhead dividers so I could replace them? I found another photo online of a cal 20 interior that was identical so thought that's how theywere designed. 

One of my bigest worries about this boat has been "what am I going to find when I get it in the water". I have pond big enough to float the boat in just to check it and have half given thought to wetting it in it just to see what happens after new keel bolts,fairing and at least bottom paint.

Their is a photo of the mast boom and rudder but does not show much so didn't post it. I was going to go up and work on it this morning a bit but as life goes my geo-thermal heating and cooling system sprung a leak going into the unit its self and I have a repair crew coming to fix it now this morning so it will have to wait at least till next week now as I don't have a single day open for the next six days.......I thought retirement was supposed to be when you slowed down......duh what was I thinking?

From what everyone has said I guess I'll go along with her gifting the boat to me as I have been adding everything up the cost is as you said at least a couple thousand. I will get shots of the mast boom rudder ect...on my next run up to the boat. Its a fiffty mile trip up so I like to plan it with other needs so I don't waste time and money uselessly on this expensive stupid fuel we have been told we have to get used to.......

Thanks again for the response.

MC


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

She looks more in the "cleaner-upper" than "fixer-upper" category from your photos. Hope it pans out that way. But the simpler the boat, the easier to restore, and the Cal 20 is that. Best of luck.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

I was at the Corinthian Yacht Club yesterday and they have two Cal20s that they just inaugurated into their sailing program, one of which was in Bristol-looking condition from where I was standing on the deck of the club. I'll see if I can get back by there soon and take pictures (inside and out) or ask someone to send me a few. I have a feeling that many of our Cal20s have been modified over the years so maybe the bulkheads were glassed in after the fact to give more support to the deck. We've had problems around the mast step and the forward decks getting spongy or caving in on some of the boats. We've also had to install backing plates under the winches and standing rigging because the fiberglass becomes too thin and weak in high stress areas. This is not hard to do.

I think you would be very pleased if you took this boat and just started with the basics, making sure it has all the parts. Then you can see if what you need to have. I would suspect you could buy many things for the Cal20 second-hand, even sails. Much will be cosmetic and the rest can be easily fixed or updated over time. Another nice thing is that you don't need an engine for this boat although there is an engine well, but many people mount one on the stern. Just get some paddles and a small anchor in case the wind completely dies. You will also find that you can move the boat by weight and tiller alone.

Everyone I know who has retired seems to have less time on their hands than before! It's good to fill the days with things you want to do and enjoy doing. This Cal20 would be a great (time-consuming) hobby that you'd likely get much enjoyment.


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Here is a couple more photos I found one shows the hole for the mast step and one shows a cal 20s birthing I found online that does not have bulk heads between the v birth and salon.


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## SchwarckT (May 6, 2012)

From the picture, it looks like the tabernacle for the mast is between the two hatches next to that standing block. I don't know what that hole in the deck is for, but I don't think it's where the mast is stepped (or maybe I'm just confused by the photo).


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks Tom that makes alot more sense. Im hoping to get up to the boat this next week but things keep being piked on here lately. As I said im new to cak 20s and donot have much experience sailing....but will soon. Ive read myself to sleep many nights for years reading sailing how tos rigging aprentices and practicing till my lines wear out so Im ready to get some real experience now. Im wondering now what that hole is I just assumed it was the mast hole till I read the cal 20 is hinged then was stumped. Also the offset position had me scratching my head too so what you tokd me makes much more sense. Now im thinking it may be a repair hole or maybe someone was going to put a port light through the top. Ill figure it out as I go. Thak you for the support and info.


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## Seafarer (Aug 26, 2012)

That hole is for a solar-powered exhaust vent. Probably 4" diameter.


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Thank you. I'll keep my eyes peeled for hardware as I continue. Hopefully its still around somewhere. Iff not I'll pick one up. Now with my immediate questions answered its time to get moving on fixing things up to get another round of questions.


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok one more quick question. I do not have an overhead lift option where the boat sits. I may be able to get one rigged up here at my home built with pine logs. What other options is there to lifting the boat safely?


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## darkstar247 (Dec 2, 2007)

Check Seals Spars he had parts a couple years ago and knows all about cal 20s


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## Seafarer (Aug 26, 2012)

May I ask why you are lifting the boat? I am going to assume that it is to drop the keel?

It is on a trailer, correct?

You can lift the whole trailer with a heavy-duty floor jack. Support the trailer with floor jacks, then built a support system for the hull, and lower the trailer out from underneath it. You could loosen the keel bolts before lowering the trailer, so the keel comes out with it.


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## S/V HONU (Apr 2, 2014)

I used to sail on San Francisco Bay on a beautiful Cal 20 named Black Feathers. The boat was, and is, owned by Robert Crawford who completed the Singlehanded TransPac to Hawaii on her a wrote a book about outfitting and sailing her. The book is titled "Black Feathers: A Pocket Racers Sails the Singlehanded TransPac". It's a good read, is full of good information, and is available through Amazon. Good luck.


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## MI Cal 20 (Jun 16, 2014)

Okay Ive sounded the deck and pulled down the glass used to try and close up the vent hole on the inside. There is definate delam. Around the vent hole and some around the cabin entry all on the port side headliner. Someone started glassing over the teak headliner in the bow but when they reahed the area where it was keaking they stopped. Everything in the furthest bow area sounds out good. Can/should I remove the head liner around the leaks and patch then finish glassing over it all or is that a slippery slope? I was truly hoping not to have this level of repair but I do so now have to suck it up and doit. Its just how far should I go? My gut instincts tell me to taer the entire head liner down and fix all core porblems then paint the head liner. Its not ever going to be a show boat anyway and I doubt I cuold clean off the teak head liner to put it back up.

Please give me your experiences on this kind of repair and how anyone has fixed it and what the results were/longgevity.

Thanks again mi cal 20


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