# What boats depreciate the least



## ChuckBuck (Sep 4, 2011)

Hoping to generate some 'friendly' discussion with this topic.

What boats depreciate the least (or less than others)? Assuming similar upgrades / condition etc.

I ask because I've now been approved for a loan - one small step forward. And as I'm now into a new price bracket, I want to ensure that I buy something that will hold its value reasonably well. 

This will be my 5th sailboat, and I've managed to minimize losses on my 4 previous boats (good care, smart upgrades etc) and sell them for what I bought them for. Now that I'm in a new price bracket, the last thing I want to do is buy something, put good money in upgrades, maintenance etc, only to find out 10 years down the road she's worth 1/3 of what I bought her for.

Again, I'm hoping to spark some interesting perspectives here - I know there is no one 'good' boat nor one 'bad' boat.

Any and all perspectives are welcome.

CB


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## Tafa (Feb 8, 2012)

I guess the most expensive ones... like Swan, Najad, Oyster, Halberg Rassy depreciate least. 

Tafa


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I suspect you are asking for a make/model answer, which is pretty tough. The condition you keep her in (read that as how much you spend on her while you own her), will be a huge variable. Will she be kept bristol or run hard and put away wet? Have sails, rigging, electronics, and broken pieces/parts been replaced with new on schedule or is duct tape the most used tool aboard?

The best I can do is some generic advice. Boats initial depreciation curve is the first 5 to maybe 7 years of its life then they level out for a while. To hold value, demand has to equal supply, which is very hard these days. I suppose a boat that wasn't made in huge volume, but became popular would be what you are asking for. However, that answer is going to vary greatly by region.

I wish I could be of more assistance, but this would be my final advice. Don't get too hung up on this issue alone. The boat you are going to take best care of, is the one you love. it has to be able to accommodate you and your family or friends on the journeys you plan. Be sure you pay a fair price for her, sail her and keep her in top condition.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Tafa said:


> I guess the most expensive ones... like Swan, Najad, Oyster, Halberg Rassy depreciate least.
> 
> Tafa


Those bring up an interesting thought. Very high end boats, let's say floating in the seven figure range, are often owned by people who just write checks for them. They can appear to hold value, because they just keep them until they get the price they want from someone who has had one too many martinis at the club.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

The boat that will depreciate the least...is one that is already fully depreciated.

Since you plan to finance your purchase, I advise you to be very careful about buying a boat that will meet most underwriting guidelines as collateral for the next purchaser - that may mean less than 30 years old. If you buy on the cusp of eligibility, for example, a boat that is 29 years old, which no longer meets underwriting guidelines as collateral for most lenders, you may see a steep drop off in value.


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## zeta (Dec 29, 2010)

The one you don't buy


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Maybe this is too personal a question but it matters to the quality of the advise.
What price bracket are we discussing? The rules will be different for 50k 100k 500k 4.6M


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

That's kind of like asking what poop smells the best. It's all pretty rank. 

Any boat is a lousy investment. And looking at depreciation as a percentage won't work. Let's say all boats depreciate 40% after 8years. Do you want to suffer the depreciation of a 100,000 dollar low end boat or a 300,000 high end boat. $40,000 or $120,000? Even if the high end boat only depreciates 30% over eight years, it's still $90,000. 

You see the same question being argued back and forth on guitars (high end vs. low end), and motorcycles (Harley vs. Kawasaki). People get hung up on the percentage and tend to argue for less depreciation on the high end item. 

When I bought my boat I had a definite criteria based on my own experience, but depreciation did not appear on the list.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> When I bought my boat I had a definite criteria based on my own experience, but depreciation did not appear on the list.


Probably b/c boats in a given price range will all depreciate at a similar rate, and that operating cost will overcome depreciation at some point. Therefore, it becomes less of a concern... although that is easy for me to say since I can pay cash for the boat in my price range.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Beautiful old ones.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Simply : The ones someone loves!........Dale


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Older, regularly used, well maintained, pretty boats with character.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I would say if you pay under about 25-30K for a boat, it is over 20 yrs old, depreciation will be slim to none if one keeps up the boat. Pay over that, get closer to new, ie less than 5 yrs old, there will be depreciation in some shape or form no matter how well you take care of it. 

Then again, you could be like me, bought a 22K boat, put about 40 into it, still worth 22K 6 yrs later to a degree, altho with the current depression in place, probably lost some. If I keep it another 5-10, then I have a felling the price will climb back up some......maybe.........

Marty


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Definitely the 'high end' boats will tend to hold their value over the long term, IF they are meticulously maintained in 'bristol' fashion and with an open checkbook. 

So too a 'high end' or 'close to high end' can even increase in value if meticulously restored and refitted back to 'new' condition. What depreciates the fastest on most boats is the 'extras' such as electrical and electronic equipment that become rapidly worthless after only a few years, especially the logic or computer controlled stuff - rapidly go to obsolescence. So, if youre looking to 'flip' a boat consider that all the 'electronic stuff' is trash and needs severe updating / replacement. 

A few years ago, when the £ & € were very strong against the $US and the europeans were actively buying up anything of 'quality' on the east coast of the US, I had several serious unsolicited offers to buy my boat at TWICE my cost of my boat and its equipment ... so It can happen if the market conditions are 'right'.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

RichH said:


> Definitely the 'high end' boats will tend to hold their value over the long term, IF they are meticulously maintained in 'bristol' fashion and with an open checkbook.





blt2ski said:


> Then again, you could be like me, bought a 22K boat, put about 40 into it, still worth 22K 6 yrs later to a degree


Maybe the better question is cost of ownership excluding slip fees. That would include maintenance costs and add-ons such as electronics.

You also have to consider ease of selling the boat. A Cherubini schooner may retain it's value better than other boats but there is a limited market; so it may take a year to sell that boat compared to a Beneteau model that's in high demand. While it may technically hold its value better, there is the carrying cost of holding the boat while trying to sell.

Price bracket is also an issue. I'd imagine it's easier to sell a five year old mid 30 footer than a five year old mid 50 footer. The former is a much larger market.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

IMHO, Sabre boats hold their value VERY well. Tartan is pretty good but not as good as Sabre. 

Barry


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jim has it to some degree too. I have a friend that has been trying to sell a Sceptre for almost 2 yrs now. Yeah at 190K, it is a great well built boat etc. but still, it is what 15-20 yrs old, probably cost that when it was new for all I know......very few buyers want that style of boat. Where as my 1985 boat would probably sell pretty quick at or about the price I paid for it. Which was IIRC about 6K less at 20 yrs than what the Original owner paid for it back in 85 from some paper work I found. So 6K over 20 yrs......pretty small loss frankly, and I have a Jeanneau that many folks like to bash for different reasons shapes and forms. I think one would find a Hunter of the same era doing the same, assuming it has been taken care of. If not, a boat my size would sell for 5-10K!

Marty


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

ChuckBuck said:


> Hoping to generate some 'friendly' discussion with this topic.
> 
> What boats depreciate the least (or less than others)? Assuming similar upgrades / condition etc.
> 
> ...


Are you buying new or used?


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## TomandKarens34 (Dec 4, 2007)

Old ones that someone else renewed, that you bought for cheap. Probably only loose 1/3 your investment.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I can give an example...

My Tartan 37 sold new for around $60,000 in 1982...today a good condition one will sell for around the same...and often even more when well kept.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

BarryL:842740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> IMHO, Sabre boats hold their value VERY well. Tartan is pretty good but not as good as Sabre.
> 
> Barry


How do u come to that conclusion? Lol


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

jameswilson29 said:


> The boat that will depreciate the least...is one that is already fully depreciated.
> 
> ...


Yes, I guess you are right and that normally means an old boat. It will retain the value....but the boat will continuously need something and in the end, if you want to maintain it seaworthy and in good condition, you will spend a lot of money each year. In the end all that money you will be spending each year on the boat will be lost. The boat will retain its initial value 

Regards

Paulo


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## Tafa (Feb 8, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Those bring up an interesting thought. Very high end boats, let's say floating in the seven figure range, are often owned by people who just write checks for them. They can appear to hold value, because they just keep them until they get the price they want from someone who has had one too many martinis at the club.


 Good point... But I was thinking those boats are not high end just because of their price tags.... Their structure, material, production quality and equipment much better than mass production boats. That gives them a longer life (of course relative to maintenance and good care) and durability.

Personally I would pay a premium for a 20 years old Halberg Rassy over 10 years old Bavaria. (If I can afford of course 

Cheers,

Tafa


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Tafa said:


> Good point... But I was thinking those boats are not high end just because of their price tags.... Their structure, material, production quality and equipment much better than mass production boats. That gives them a longer life (of course relative to maintenance and good care) and durability.
> 
> Personally I would pay a premium for a 20 years old Halberg Rassy over 10 years old Bavaria. (If I can afford of course
> 
> ...


You're right. That maintenance to keep the HR will be extraordinary.

First, to sell high end stuff, the buyers usually expect top condition, so you'll have to keep up.

Secondly, pull into a boat yard with an expensive high end yacht and you will pay more for exactly the same work. Sucks really.

In the end, you will pay for retaining that value.


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## Tafa (Feb 8, 2012)

Siamese said:


> That's kind of like asking what poop smells the best. It's all pretty rank.


Siamese is totally right then 

Tafa


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Lets do a comparison shall we, My boat is worth about 22K today, would take about 120-130K to replace with an equal Jeanneau.....it was about 25-28K new. so about 1/6 of the value in todays dollars....

The Tartan 37 mentioned earlier, also about the same price today as new 30 yrs ago. To replace it today with an equal would be 300-350K IIRC, so again, about 1/6 of the cost using todays dollars, maybe 1/5. 

Has either one really depreciated any different? In my book, while one could show a bit less depreciation on the Tartan, both are pretty close to equal. 

At the end of the day, one is buying a depreciating asset, buy accordingly!

Marty


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Boats are not an investment. The appropriate question is how long does it take for the depreciation of the boat to equal the selling value of the boat.


Boats are costly. There are other factors involved in the cost other than the raw price and depreciation of the boat, slip fees, maiatainence, etc. This was discussed in detail above with such posts as...it takes more to upkeep an Oyster or HR than a similarly sized Jennau or Benne. Is ther engine in it a high maintennce one, or one which has a low incidence of repair. So much involved in this simple comparison. So many factors here.

Consumer Reports takes more than the cost of the car into consideration when it figures out how much it coasts per mile to run a car. For instance ( this is only a hypothetical so dont anyone get your particular baots panties in a bunch.) If a HR54 used a robertson autopilot for standard equipment and a jenneau 54ds used a raymarine one as standard equipment how does one figure that the Raymarine may last 15 years and the Robertson may last 25. In a lot of the non production boats the standard 
Maybe the question is which boats hold their value best year after year assunibg tghey are cared for.

Buy a boat you like, buy one which has a good reputation, look around and see how many of the brands 30 year old boats are still around and being sold vs the number which were made? 

Dave


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)




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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

petmac said:


>


If you can afford one you can also afford to say "screw depreciation, look what *I *sail". 

Also, I've never done an analysis of them but I'd imagine you wouldn't get much, if any, change from 1 $million if you had Hincklys build you a new B40 - what would it be worth in 20 years? $250K?

I don't buy any very expensive items new - cars, boats, houses simply because the initial hit of depreciation is so big. After that point though, it becomes far less of a factor.

From a strictly accounting standpoint, boats in particular are a debit item, not a credit item.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Tafa said:


> ...
> Personally I would pay a premium for a 20 years old Halberg Rassy over 10 years old Bavaria. (If I can afford of course
> 
> .


Hum...what do you call a premium? Like 3 times more? I mean a 20 year old 42HR costs almost 3 times more than a 10 year old Bavaria 42

2001 Bavaria 42 Boats For Sale

1991 Halberg Rassy Boats For Sale

New the Halberg-Rassy costs about 2.5 times more than a Bavaria so we can say that the depreciation on the Halberg-Rassy is slightly less than on a Bavaria.

But if you consider the money you "lose" in 10 years having a Bavaria or a Halberg-Rassy and then selling it, you lose 2 times more with the Halberg Rassy even if in percentage the depreciation is slightly less.

Regards

Paulo


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

A looooong time ago Practical Sailor published depreciation curves in their series that featured an older boat. While the curves differed a lot, I recall that on average curves flattened out at about the 6-7 year point. This was also around when owners changed out their electronics.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> If you can afford one you can also afford to say "screw depreciation, look what *I *sail".
> 
> Also, I've never done an analysis of them but I'd imagine you wouldn't get much, if any, change from 1 $million if you had Hincklys build you a new B40 - what would it be worth in 20 years? $250K?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't buy new. This one is 35 years old. A friend bought a new Hunter 33 when I bought this B40 and paid more money for the Hunter. I work on my own boats. My previous boat was a 1965 Hinckley and I sold her for considerably more than I paid for her.  I can't say the same for my investment portfolio. To quote John Kretschmer "If you have $150,000 to spend, would you rather have a beautifully reconditioned 1975 B40 or a new 32 foot ABC production boat ? Which boat will be worth more in five years ? Which boat would you rather sail ? "
A new B40 in 1975 was around $120,000. Boats are not investments...we all know that. The question is what boats depreciate the least.


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## lajimo (Sep 5, 2011)

Should also consider the impact of inflation. 60,000 purchase in 1980 is equivalent to 165,000 in 2012 dollars. So a 1980 boat that can be sold today for about it's original purchase price has actually lost almost 2/3 of its value just due to inflation. Given that we may be on the brink of another period of high inflation, it would make more sense to buy an older boat now as opposed to a newer boat still on its depreciation curve.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

petmac said:


> I wouldn't buy new. This one is 35 years old. A friend bought a new Hunter 33 when I bought this B40 and paid more money for the Hunter. I work on my own boats. My previous boat was a 1965 Hinckley and I sold her for considerably more than I paid for her.  I can't say the same for my investment portfolio. To quote John Kretschmer "If you have $150,000 to spend, would you rather have a beautifully reconditioned 1975 B40 or a new 32 foot ABC production boat ? Which boat will be worth more in five years ? Which boat would you rather sail ? "
> A new B40 in 1975 was around $120,000. Boats are not investments...we all know that. The question is what boats depreciate the least.


I just took a quick look at YW - the 19 B-40's listed average $176K - I'd say you bought a LOT smarter than your friend, although I daresay his 33 is actually a bigger boat than yours.  Keep in mind though, when your boat was new, it cost as much as SEVERAL average houses.

If the state of your boat is the result of your work, I'd hire you and I imagine so would Hinckleys - it's about as gorgeous as a boat can be. Depreciation is unlikely to be a factor for you - I can't imagine that boat ever being worth any less than about $175K.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Boats are an investment in life! & This far out weighs any depreciation!........Dale


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## swampcreek (Feb 14, 2010)

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> Boats are an investment in life! & This far out weighs any depreciation!........Dale


I like that!!!!

I'm about to post a buying question along the same lines, I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start one that focusses on our situation.


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## ChuckBuck (Sep 4, 2011)

wow - great insights everyone. will let you know where i net out.
many thanks


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

SimonV said:


> Older, regularly used, well maintained, pretty boats with character.


I think this is a very good answer. Also consider older boats made by premium builders - Bristol, Tartan, Sabre, and so on. At the depreciated price you are getting the excellent build quality at a fraction of its new value, but continue to reap the benefits.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

None of you came up with the correct answer ... The boat with the least depreciation is the one that I want to buy. Immediately after I purchase it, it becomes the boat with the most depreciation .... works the same with anything I buy and has nothing to do condition or loving care.


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

The boats that do depreciate the most is it a quality / saftey issue for the cause or just popularity? Do they all find a level and then slowly sink or do some go down like rocks? With out dishing a company can someone put out some names that seem to hold value because of good quality


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

This one: Fart knocker - My Product Gallery


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

One factor is how much will the maintenance cost be that's required to fight off depreciation. If the boat is poorly engineered and high in maintenance requirements, you might not do too well even if the boat is otherwise popular.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

My experience has been that boats with an active one-design racing class organization depreciate very little. One that I owned depreciated 9% over 11 years and another appreciated 5% over two years. 

The value of an older one-design racer is particularly retained when the boat is still in production. A new boat may well cost 165% what a ten year old boat cost when new. If the ten year old boat depreciated 3% per annum, it would sell for 45% of the price of a new boat. Because one-design rules keep the old boats competitive, they're in great demand.


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