# Cruiser



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

My club members were having this discussion the other week/

So what's the definition in your opinion. What's the difference between a cruiser or a live aboard? Lots of people have different opinions,

What constitutes cruising?

Does a cruiser have to cover a certain amount of miles? 

Does a cruiser have stay on the boat a certain % of time?

Is a person who travels the Chesapeake from top to bottom and goes to New England every year a cruiser?

Is a person who travels primarily the coast of Florida a cruiser?

Is a person who travels from the Chesapeake to Florida a cruiser?

Is a person who travels through the Caribbean a cruiser?

Is a person who travels between continents cruiser ?

Does a cruiser have to be a live aboard 100% of the time?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A day sailor would be one that returns home each day. If you don't, what else would you be called?


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

A live-aboard can never cruise and a cruiser is a liveaboard while cruising.

You can cruise on a motorcycle on a car, on an airplane or a in a boat. Cruising is an act meaning to be in motion with no other objective than enjoying life and discover new places and new peoples.

Cruising is different from voyaging, on a voyage you have an objective, arriving somewhere and in fact if that is made as fast as possible, a voyage can exclude cruising, for instance a non stop circumnavigation or an Atlantic crossing.

Cruisers don't travel in packs or go on organized touristic voyages (that's a touristic tour), they have an open schedule and do what pleases them according with their mood and with the positive interaction with people and places.

Cruisers are those that love cruising and that do that as much as they can.

Cruising is a way of life, even if life will not allow us to cruise all the time.

Obviously you can own a sailboat and not be a cruiser, you can live in one and not be a cruiser, you can even not own a sailboat and be a cruiser.

That's funny, I tried to see if my take was a personal one and look at the on line dictionaries and found out that we are doing some research work here:

The simply say that cruiser is a person that cruises

Regarding to cruise there are more useful meanings:

*To sail or travel about*, *as for pleasure* or reconnaissance.
To go or move along, *especially in an unhurried or unconcerned fashion*...
cruise - definition of cruise by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

*to travel without destination or purpose*
Cruise - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

*to sail about on a pleasure trip.
to travel about without a particular purpose or destination.*
Cruise | Define Cruise at Dictionary.com

*sail about in an area without a precise destination, especially for pleasure*
Definition of cruise in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think we can agree that cruising involves moving your boat, so a live-aboard is an exclusive issue. You can live-aboard and cruise or not cruise.

I've never heard of a soul referred to as a voyager.

I think cruisers are moving their boat, not returning home at the end of the day and don't care what you call them.


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## Woodvet (May 5, 2012)

It matters little to not... I think of live-aboards as people solving a housing problem with a boating problem. Many harbors can't offer berths because of unseaworthy, unsavory and even shiftless people who have nothing better to do but pretend they have or are going to sea. Then there are veterans who know all too well whats out there and can't be bothered with it. Even so, they keep their boat in good nick just in case they ever do. 
The world is filled with clubs and qualifications and frankly many of those aren't the kind you find paint under their fingernails or calluses on their hands. Plenty of pukes sail all day and have no love for the sea. I've even met mental and physical chaps who can't sail at all but are most worthy of attention. You can't pigeon hole people. Age, countries sailed and so just divides us up and there be too much of that already. Five sailors have six opinions so beware of all advise where ever you locate it and as far as a yarn goes, well,,, I think it's just part of the whole mystique of sailing.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> ..
> 
> I've never heard of a soul referred to as a voyager.
> 
> I think cruisers are moving their boat, not returning home at the end of the day and don't care what you call them.


What would you call to a guy that loves to circumnavigate non stop or a guy that circumnavigates and only stops for provisions and diesel, taking in those stops only the needed time for that purpose: A cruiser?

I know of some guys that prefer that to "cruising". I would call it voyaging and those guys voyagers. Most cruisers voyage to go cruising and there are some voyagers that prefer the voyage to the cruising, some voyage a lot and cruise very little. Some cruise a lot and voyage less.

A voyager has an intent and a purpose, a cruiser has a much more open schedule.

Some (and there are many) use the boat as a second house, have it on a nice spot and go always with the boat to the same near by places to pass nice afternoons on anchor. Those are not also cruisers according to the way I see it.

Regards

Paulo


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Labels are so convenient.

How about this:
What would you call a guy who only sails between Seattle and Vancouver?
Answer: Pete

What would you call a guy who comes back in everyday before nighttime?
Answer: Arnold


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Sometimes you start out voyaging. "I need to get to such and such". But you end up cruising. "Oh wow this place is awesome. Lets see what it's like up the coast a bit". Shame work and weather get in the way or we all be cruising and be dudes in paradise.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

To me, liveaboard means the boat is your full-time home (like CruisingDad, AKA Bryan). Bryan is probably the perfect example of this, because he's both a liveaboard and a cruiser. I know others who live aboard, but never leave the dock (mostly power boaters); they aren't cruisers. Dave, I'd consider you a cruiser but not a liveaboard.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

bobperry said:


> Labels are so convenient.
> 
> ...
> What would you call a guy who comes back in everyday before nighttime?
> Answer: Arnold..


A daysailer. As you know there are a type of boats designed with that in mind and they are increasingly popular, at least in Europe and there are lot's of sailors doing that. I am sure Arnold is one of them

Regards

Paulo


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm done tring to figure out what I am, I was told not to call myself a liveaboard because officials target liveaboards thu we don't stay in one area very long. We have been up and down the coast 3 times each way including sailing miles off shore but I'm sure you call us blue water cruisiers. Just look for me where its warm. So I guess you can just call me a "Sailor" that jumped on a boat left a dock and haven't returned yet.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

We are cruisers because we will leave the dock at every opportunity. Maybe just a day sail or a weekend or a couple of weeks for now. We live on our boat and are preparing to leave our current marina some day. We never leave home because we take it with us when we cruise.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

To me its not who you are but what your doing at the time...I sail other wise

On a Wednesday night I might be a racer?
On the weekend I might be a weekender?
On our two week sail I might be a cruiser?
If going from destination to destination for a long period of time, say more than a few months I might be on a voyage?

Then what am I when the boat is on the hard, an RV'er?

I don't know why one needs to be labeled anything? Who cares, I sure don't.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

PCP said:


> What would you call to a guy that loves to circumnavigate non stop or a guy that circumnavigates and only stops for provisions....


Circumnavigators...... 

which are cruisers with a serious sailing problem.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

If you really need to label it ... a cruiser would be someone without a fixed point, or time of return, who's boat is their primary residence.

Being a cruiser, to me, is more a lifestyle, than it is simply what you happen to be doing at that moment in time.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> Circumnavigators......
> 
> which are cruisers with a serious sailing problem.


Not a sailing problem, a cruising problem. Besides all circumnavigators are not like that, some circumnavigate while cruising and they take 3, 5 or even 10 years.

Regards

Paulo


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

It is really difficult to read this thread without an adult beverage in hand.
John


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> To me, liveaboard means the boat is your full-time home (like CruisingDad, AKA Bryan). Bryan is probably the perfect example of this, because he's both a liveaboard and a cruiser. I know others who live aboard, but never leave the dock (mostly power boaters); they aren't cruisers. Dave, I'd consider you a cruiser but not a liveaboard.


Funny I don't consider Bryan (CD) or I cruisers. He lives on his boat full time, me maybe 120 days of the year. We both probably travel about the same distance each year total (2000 to 3000 nm) and both in the same waters relatively ( him coastal Florida me the Chesapeake with a 3+ week trip up the coast to New England). I am sure Bryan would disagree as he has referred to himself as a cruiser before and talks about having a cruising boat. I have a feeling its what leads to our broad disparities in what we believe and look for for performance cruising boats.

Now Gary ( traveneasy), wingnwing, killarney sailor, xort, med sailor and others I consider cruisers. But Ill bet some like Wing and Garys total mileage is close to CD and mine. So I guess mileage is not a determinant

This why I am asking others here of their opinions.

The discussion in our club was very circular in nature and none of us could come up with any set criteria ( mileage, area covered etc.) Many in the "cruising community" do not look at coastal sailors like we are at all as cruisers and have laughed at us when we join them and say we are out cruising.

One criteria we seemed to agree upon was many cruisers do not work steadily or have retired from full time careers or the traditional jobs.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

chef2sail said:


> ...
> One criteria we seemed to agree upon was many cruisers do not work steadily or have retired from full time careers or the traditional jobs.


Cruisers are the ones that cruise. If you go out cruising for a month in your annual vacations, you are a cruiser, at least while you are cruising

regards

Paulo


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Dave,
Is being a cruiser inherently exclusive of being a liveaboard in your opinion? To me, Bryan is both, because he does actually get the boat away from the dock for a fair amount of time. You aren't a liveaboard, but a cruiser. I am neither (and not just because of my current situations!).

IMHO, a liveaboard is essentially someone without a home on land. A cruiser is someone who takes their boat away from the dock/slip/mooring for more than 2-3 days at a stretch, and does so multiple times a year. Otherwise, you're an overnighter or a daysailor.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Some full time liveaboards often look like they are 4-5 days of cleanup, junk removal and straightening out before they're gonna be ready for a daysail... wouldn't label them cruisers, obviously.

I think Brian would qualify, but again it will depend on your own definition.

As Popeye said, I yam what I yam... and I yam a summertime cruiser...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

bobperry said:


> Labels are so convenient.
> 
> How about this:
> What would you call a guy who only sails between Seattle and Vancouver?
> ...


What would you call the smartest and best looking male moderator?
Answer: .... (hehe, well, everyone already knows it)

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

What is a cruiser?? I don't know. Not me. I am an Americas Cup Racer... just still waiting to hear back on the job. Not sure why it is taking them so long, really. Maybe I should not have included "Plus, I will bring my own grill!!" in my resume? 

Apparently you cant just get the job with good looks and smarts. 

Brian


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Funny I don't consider Bryan (CD) or I cruisers...


Then what do you consider yourself? Weekend warrior?

I have no idea what is between a day sailor and a cruiser. I fully reject that a cruiser has to be a directionless, jobless, destinationless moving sailboat. Those are boat bums.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Then what do you consider yourself? Weekend warrior?


Not sure.

I always pictured the real cruisers as traveling to different ports. No real schedules or very loose ones.

Didn't matter ht size boat. It was a lifestyle.

I just consider us sailors.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

> I just consider us sailors.


Bingo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

chef2sail said:


> Not sure.
> 
> I always pictured the real cruisers as traveling to different ports. No real schedules or very loose ones.
> 
> ...


I agree on that. The essence of cruising is to sail about discovering nice places and enjoying life in a relaxed kind of way. That's why I leave the boat each year in different locations for the winter.

I go with Faster on this one: I am a summertime cruiser, I have been that all my sailing life and almost never cruised on the same regions.

Regarding winter cruising...I prefer my fireplace. Too harsh for me. I could be cruising in Brazil since it is summer out there, but I am a family men and I like to have quality time with them. Now, if I could convince them and find the (their) opportunity to do that, I would enjoy to do that with them, at least one year, I mean cruising in Brazil for the winter.

Regards

Paulo


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> .....I just consider us sailors.


I suppose that's it.

Although, I still don't see where some of your examples of who you think are cruisers differ from the sailing that you and I do occasionally. If I understand Gary and WingnWing, their cruises were just like ours, only longer. I leave each year with no specific plan, no reservations, fully self sufficient and nothing more than a region in mind with a bookmarks on anchorages we might use. We pick which it will be over coffee each morning. I only have a date when I must be back. Wouldn't that be exactly the same as the examples you gave, only theirs was longer? Our date is weeks away, theirs is months.

I'm beginning to wonder if some think the term cruiser is a badge of honor that must be earned or one must qualify for. I would personally find that silly. I also wonder if some think a cruiser has to fit a stereotype. Did that investment banker who cruised the Pacific on his $5mm 60ft GunBoat with satellite comm qualify? One is a cruiser whenever they are cruising (whatever cruising is, I guess). It doesn't charge my batteries to think that I am or am not a cruiser at any given time. JMO.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> I suppose that's it.
> 
> Although, I still don't see where some of your examples of who you think are cruisers differ from the sailing that you and I do occasionally. If I understand Gary and WingnWing, their cruises were just like ours, only longer. I leave each year with no specific plan, no reservations, fully self sufficient and nothing more than a region in mind with a bookmarks on anchorages we might use. We pick which it will be over coffee each morning. I only have a date when I must be back. Wouldn't that be exactly the same as the examples you gave, only theirs was longer? Our date is weeks away, theirs is months.
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if some think the term cruiser is a badge of honor that must be earned or one must qualify for. I would personally find that silly. I also wonder if some think a cruiser has to fit a stereotype. Did that investment banker who cruised the Pacific on his $5mm 60ft GunBoat with satellite comm qualify? One is a cruiser whenever they are cruising (whatever cruising is, I guess). It doesn't charge my batteries to think that I am or am not a cruiser at any given time. JMO.


We are all sailors. What he do while sailing defines if there are or not any purpose associated with the pleasure of sailing.

I don't see why someone that uses the boat mainly for cruising while sailing has a badge of honor over a guy that uses the boat for voyaging or for training and racing or one that just uses the boat for....sailing without any other purpose.

Cruising is not only associated with sailing, you can cruise on a motorcycle, on a car a caravan a canoe or even on a bicycle. That is something that can be associated with a sailing boat or not even if a sailing boat is great for cruising.

I even have cruised on mountains with a dirt bike, using military maps, for thousands of km. Probably a not very common way of cruising but I loved the wilderness and the pleasure of cruising in a world that is rapidly disappearing, the one where very rarely you would find a soul all day but where you would be surrounded by wild animals and untouched nature.

Cruisers or racers, don't have to do it all the time, they do it when they can and some have not much time out of work. It is the way they use the sailboat that defines if they are cruisers or not, independently of the time they use it. You can even be a cruiser with charter boats.

You don't have to be a professional racer to be a racer: That depends on the purpose you use the sailboat (besides sailing). The same thing with cruisers.

Regards

Paulo


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think it's like pornography. You know it when you see it.
Two guys want to be in the V.I.s for the winter. They both start in Marion. One guy steps on his go fast with 3 deck apes and a professional captain. Meets his wife in Caneel Bay a few days later after she flies down. Other guy takes a month off from "real life". Bounces down the east coast with his bride. Has no other plans than being north of Va. until Nov1. Then decides if to take the jump or keep running coastal with the thorny path in mind. 
Who is cruising?
There's a little bar graph on the bottom of boat reviews in a sailing rag we all know. Maybe there are boats more suitable for cruising or racing but the activity is all in our mind.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Good posts. 

Agreement seems to be we are all qualified as cruisers. Some are live aboard cruisers, some are weekend cruisers, some are summer cruisers, some are global cruisers

Cruising isn't determined by length of trip, size of the boat, destinations, whether you work or not, how long you live on the boat, or how long you are out cruising. The qualifier seems to be the adjective before the cruiser word ( i.e. Caribbean cruiser, weekend cruiser, coastal cruiser, ICW cruiser. live aboard cruiser)

I especially like Paulo's post about cruising on land or sea ( or I guess even air in Minnie's case). Back when I graduated HS I land cruised the United States for 1 year....occasionally jumping on boxcars of trains. A cruise I will never forget.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

For me it's simple. I'm a cruiser because I don't race. I don't race because my boat is a cruising type boat not suited for racing. 
I don't live aboard because I can lay in my bed and look at my boat at the dock. 
I'll be a live aboard when I lay in my bed and look at other boats at the dock. 
I'll be a live aboard when the majority of my possessions are on the boat with me - and my mailing address is somewhere I've never owned, leased, or lived at.

I don't cruise my boat around the bay, I sail it around the bay.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I've yet to see an "answer" that explains why it matters. Nor why it deserves any thought.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

chucklesR said:


> For me it's simple. I'm a cruiser because I don't race. I don't race because my boat is a cruising type boat not suited for racing.
> I don't live aboard because I can lay in my bed and look at my boat at the dock.
> I'll be a live aboard when I lay in my bed and look at other boats at the dock.
> I'll be a live aboard when the majority of my possessions are on the boat with me - and my mailing address is somewhere I've never owned, leased, or lived at.
> ...


The suitability of the boat for racing or cruising is not relevant. I have cruised for many years in a traditional sailboat that was less suited for cruising than any offshore racing boat and I do not mean cruiser racer. It was a boat with a bare interior.

There are many that race in slow boats that cannot be further appart than a racing boat (that's why there is handicap racing), and others cruise in offshore racing boats. It is what you are doing with the boat that defines cruising not the type of boat you are using to do it.

You can sail all days of your live around the bay on a great cruising boat and still you are not cruising. You can coastal cruise along a shore in an open boat, pull it everyday to shore and sleep in a camp fire and you are cruising (and I know some that had done that).

Many racers, race their boat all year long,change sails and go out cruising with the family on vacations on the same boat they use to race. That's why someone "invented" the cruiser racers, or the word for it because they always existed. The racers while cruising are cruisers.



outbound said:


> ...
> Two guys want to be in the V.I.s for the winter. They both start in Marion. One guy steps on his go fast with 3 deck apes and a professional captain. Meets his wife in Caneel Bay a few days later after she flies down. Other guy takes a month off from "real life". Bounces down the east coast with his bride. Has no other plans than being north of Va. until Nov1. Then decides if to take the jump or keep running coastal with the thorny path in mind.
> Who is cruising?
> There's a little bar graph on the bottom of boat reviews in a sailing rag we all know. Maybe there are boats more suitable for cruising or racing but the activity is all in our mind.


Again, the type of boat is not what define a cruiser, a cruiser cruises and some cruisers besides cruising race too and the opposite is also true.

Cruising in a sailboat has two components: Cruising and sailing.

Some prefer to travel and live with a lot of stuff while cruising and sailing a less fast and enjoyable boat, some like a simpler life while cruising and enjoy a fast sailing boat that puts a big smile on their faces.

A fast boat as a cruiser has not speed by itself as main objective (at least to me, even if my wife would disagree) but the increased pleasure of sailing a fast boat (and leave all behind) the pleasure of having the means to fine tune a boat and learn to sail better and most of all the possibility of sailing while a slower boat would have to be motoring. It has to do with sail pleasure while cruising. If you want maximum efficiency, speed and loading ability get a motor boat.

I am not saying your boat is not a nice cruising boat, I said already many times that I like it (even if it would not fit me) I am saying that cruising is something you do, with a boat or not and regarding a boat, the more efficient and fast way to do it is with a motorboat. Most of us chose a sailing boat because it can be cheaper but most of all because we like to sail. Some want to cruise in better sailingboats that are faster and sail with less wind, others want a better compromise between loading and sailing. There are sailing boats to all tastes and life styles and there are many tastes in what regards cruising.

Now, getting back to cruising. Cruising is cruising, some have boats designed for cruising and never cruise, other have race boats (not cruiser racers), race them and also use them for cruising. Cruising is something you do or not, regardless of the boat, car, bicycle or motorcycle and that you do with your own style and pleasure. Like in sailing, in what regards cruising with a vehicle, not all would chose the same type. There would have choices for all tastes, from 4 wheel drive to 2 seat roadsters to Caravans ending up on motorcycles and among these many types.

I can imagine a motorcycle cruiser that like to drive fast on secondary roads in the countryside using a light and powerful motorbike being pissed by a guy with a Goldwing that wants to convince him that his bike is not a cruising bike and that he should cruise on a proper cruising bike like his. I can imagine the guy that like to cruise on a fast bike suggesting him that he should buy a car.

Regards

Paulo


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm just going with "boat bum"


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

"aquatic traveler" "sunbird" "houseless but not homeless"

As long as we're keeping an annual slip lease somewhere, or coming back to the same place every summer, I don't really count what we do as open-ended cruising.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

In my heart I think of myself as a cruiser but in reality a weekend warrier who gets in a couple of mini cruises each year. 

For mine the title is a mindset more than anything else.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

day sailors return to same dock daily.
cruisers repair in other places, preferably exotic
there are many types of cruiser...now this could get to being a lot of fun--wanna start that thread?

what do cruisers do between passages--they live aboard--yes there are many kinds and classifications of cruiser, as well as same with liveaboard. 

general strokes do not cut it...lol


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Gig Harbor can seem exotic after a long day beating into a cold southerly by yourself.

I think TDW has it nailed. "I'm a cruiser because I think I am." That's good enough for me.

Hate to see this thread turn into "My cruise is longer than your cruise".


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

My take on a cruiser, is one that lives permanently on their boat and has no fixed place of abode. Has no ties to an area where they are presently staying. Can move on without undue stress. Probably don't own a car or mode of transport that can not be easily bought aboard. At a minimum they can say yes to most of the former for 3 continual months or more.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

SimonV said:


> My take on a cruiser, is one that lives permanently on their boat and has no fixed place of abode. Has no ties to an area where they are presently staying. Can move on without undue stress. Probably don't own a car or mode of transport that can not be easily bought aboard. At a minimum they can say yes to most of the former for 3 continual months or more.


Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers

So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?

It seems that for you a cruiser has to be a professional???, or a retired or a bummer because nobody with a a fixed work, other than cruising could qualify as a cruiser.

Regards

Paulo


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm definitely not in agreement with many of you here.

Exhibit A

Dylan Winter (Keep Turning Left) 
Dylan is a longtime contributer here who is on a five year (at best) circumnavigation of the UK in a 20' boat. He is a freelance journalist and filmaker who regulalry leaves his boat and returns to the family home for work, puppy births and the odd bit of jiggery pokery. OK so some of you disagree but ffs, this man is cruising.

Exhibit B
A.J. Mackinnon - "The Unlikely Voyage of Jack de Crow". 
The Unlikely Voyage Of Jack De Crow - Book Reviews - Books - Entertainment
Slept most nights either under canvas on land, on various friends and acquaintances sofas or in a pub. 
Cruising ? Damn right he was.

Andrew B


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm with tdw. Cruising is a state of mind. When we were were kids we get together and jump on bikes, in a car, walk whatever and go cruising. Never really knew where you end up or how the night would work out. Now you may go "cruise Maine". Don't know how far north you may get, what harbors you will visit. ( vacation cruiser) Or you cruise the caribean or the Med or south Pacific. (full time cruiser). It's the state of mind. Open to what opportunities present themselves. Not be pressured and live in the moment. Yes, it's enjoyable to sail a fast boat well. But that has nothing o do with whether or not you are cruising. Done the same trip several times. Sometimes helping on delieveries. Other times while cruising. Very different frame on mind. Think you can cruise for a weekend, a few weeks or your life. Don't think time, boat, or locale limit yu from feeling the joy of just going cruising. Agree with Bob, once you get competitive about it you missed the boat on cruising.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SimonV said:


> My take on a cruiser, is one that lives permanently on their boat and has no fixed place of abode. Has no ties to an area where they are presently staying. Can move on without undue stress. Probably don't own a car or mode of transport that can not be easily bought aboard. At a minimum they can say yes to most of the former for 3 continual months or more.


That is pretty much how I define a cruiser too.

Brian


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Cruisingdad said:


> That is pretty much how I define a cruiser too.
> 
> Brian


Brian are you a professional cruiser? I mean like Paul and Sheryl Shard or do you manage to keep another type of work while cruising? And how is that possible? You seam too young to be retired. How do you earn the money to keep cruising all the time?

Regards

Paulo


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PCP said:


> Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers
> 
> So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?
> 
> ...


You see, this is why we are not agreeing in the Racer-cruiser thread.



PCP said:


> Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers


Why? Why is that bad? Why do you have to be a cruiser to enjoy a 'cruising' boat? Why can't the guy that just goes for a sail on his boat for a day, or even one that never leaves the dock, be happy and use his boat in the manner that he feels is right for him? I personally have no problem with that. You do not have to be a cruiser to enjoy a cruising boat and use it for the use you feel is right for you.



PCP said:


> So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?


Exactly. He can be cruising (or vacationing), but not be a cruiser. There is a distinct difference to me, which I will explain shortly.



PCP said:


> It seems that for you a cruiser has to be a professional???, or a retired or a bummer because nobody with a a fixed work, other than cruising could qualify as a cruiser.


A professional is one who seems to make money off of their endeavor to me. I sure don't make money as a cruiser... I spend it!!!

So, using that reasoning, if I draw up a plan to build a barn, am I an architect?

If I put a bandaid on my kids knee, or if I try to diagnose their illness and administer drugs, does that make me a nurse or a doctor?

If I fix up a creative meal for the church, and serve it up, does that make me a chef?

If I put a saddle on a jackass, and run him around the track, does that make him a racehorse?

Then why in the world is the guy that tosses a six pack of beer in a boat, grabs a pizza, and heads out to anchor out for the day a cruiser???

Call them what they are: They are sailors. They are people who are going to anchor out or hop marinas. THey are using their boats as they see fit and enjoying them. They are choosing to spend their vacation anchoring out on their boat and relaxing and enjoying life. And you want to know what is wrong with that?? Not a single thing. I have done all of that. The differences between what I do though, day in and day out, and what a guy on a Hobie cat that spends the night on a shore before heading back to his house does, are so significantly different I do not even know how to begin, but let me see if I can try:

I have an address on my drivers license that lists a marina which I have not seen in months, and will probably never see again. I have no dock box there, I have no slip or dock lines tied or storage of goods. I have no (read: zero) land ties anywhere in the world.

I pulled my children out and home school them fulltime.

I dropped a box in front of my kids and told them they were going to have to consolidate their toys to what fit in that small box because that is all that would fit on the boat. They had to make hard decisions, because they knew what didn't fit would be thrown away or taken to Goodwill.

I carry a full complement of drugs and medical supplies, because as I have seen, we can be many, many hours or days from help.

I carry a suit on board and nice dresses for the wife. This is because if there is a funeral or other function that requires us to be appropriately dressed, we will not have time to get them out of storage.

Everything I own that does not float is in a 10x15 3000 miles away which I have not seen in quite a long time, and honestly, I am not even sure what is in there.

We carry the bibles from our kids first communion, pictures that cannot be replaced, financials and all of our checkbooks, birth certificates, and other things you and any other non-cruiser would never put on their boat.

If my boat sinks, I didn't just lose my boat. I didn't just lose my house. I lost my home. I lost everything, much of which is irreplaceable and does not carry a monetary tag. But we carry it anyways, because it is not our boat, it is our home, our only home, and those things are precious to us.

I carry a full complement of cold weather clothes and blankets, even though it is summer. Why? Because I will still be on this boat in winter and I was on it last winter, and if they don't float, they don't go.

I carry the stuff to change the oil and wax the boat, even though I did all of this only a few months ago. Why? Because where else would I put it? And in a few months, when I have to change the oil, I will need it or will have to repurchase.

Losing my tender would not be just a source of irritation or a financial loss, it is a serious issue because now we will not be able to restock the boat, refill with water, refill with diesel, get back and forth to land to reprovision the food, (take out the dog in my situation), and other things that adds a whole other level of stress to us. I will have to repurchase, and quickly. In the meantime, I will have to find a marina which may not be easily or readily accessible. Our tender is not a fun little boat, it is our car.

A cruiser for me is not a state of mind. It is not a badge of honor. It is not a trophy. It is not a pennant I fly from my stay. A cruiser is a fulltime commitment to this lifestyle and to cruising. It is making life work in your home, your only home, which just so happens to float.

From my perspective, when you call everyone a cruiser, then no one is. The word loses all meaning. That is also the problem with labels and describing them. But in reflecting back on what seems the general consensus of "this is a cruiser" and how you and others have defined it, I begin to think I am not a cruiser at all. I do not know what words describe the life I live. Probably not a 'cruiser'. No. Me and my family are not cruisers. We are gypsies... water gypsies who are passionate about sailing and cruising.

Come join us... you wont regret it.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PCP said:


> Brian are you a professional cruiser? I mean like Paul and Sheryl Shard or do you manage to keep another type of work while cruising? And how is that possible? You seam too young to be retired. How do you earn the money to keep cruising all the time?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Yes, I am, in your version of a professional which is not what I call it. I call it a cruiser. And I am no professional!! More like an amateur (Smile).

I would not call myself retired. I am not. Who knows, this whole thing could come to an end with one nice hurricane. How did I do it? I worked very long hours in my company. I earned a lot of money and saved it. I shut it down instead of continuing to make money and walked away from a very large sum of money (at least in my opinion). I now write books, which I make nothing on (right now, at least... fingers crossed I will pick up an agent with my last book).

I sold my house(s).

I sold my car(s).

I took my stuff and what didn't fit into a 10x15 storage unit, I threw away.

I liquidated everything I own that didn't float or wouldn't float on the boat.

You see, that has long been my argument that when people say, "You are so lucky, Brian, I wish I could do that." Almost everyone can!! There are those that cannot, but in reality, they are few. How?

You quit your job or you shut down your company. Walk away from it. SOme can do it in a fashion that allows them to come back to it one day if they wish. Others never want to or cannot. It's hard... I won't lie!

Sell your house. Owning a house and a boat (did that, even bought a house once off the ICW to park my boat behind) is like having two wives. You won't be happy with either because you cannot be everything to both. That was my experience at least. But sell it! Take the money and put it in savings.

Sell your cars. They are a depreciating asset anyways and you won't want them or need them.

Sell your possessions. Have a yard sale or estate sell and sell everything that is not precious to you. The things that are precious, put in storage. The things that are not and don't sell, drop off at Goodwill.

If that is not enough money, liquidate your retirement. You will take a hit on it (25% in America).

Pull your kids out of school and learn and research homeschooling.

Buy a boat that fits your needs. Understand, it is no longer a boat, it is now your house and home. It is your life and will keep you safe. You will suddenly find that you need something that holds, "all that stuff" because if it doesn't fit on the boat, it can't go, and you will find that both you and your family have things that they need to make them happy long term. You will have things that are precious to you and you will not want to leave behind.

After that, cut the lines. Sail away. Go somewhere for the day or a month. You are only limited by your finances and interests. If money starts getting tight, go somewhere and get a short term job to help resupply the cruising kitty. That is a cruiser to me.

Now, most people that read this think I am crazy or anyone that does that is crazy. they cannot imagine shutting down their profession... they may never get it back. They love their house(s). They have zero interest in home schooling their kids or do not think they should because their kids have friends or their kids are doing well in school and sports. They cannot imagine life without a car. Their furniture are heirlooms and not replaceable. Touch their retirement?? Are you kidding me!?? Stupid, insane, financially reckless.

So in the end, they do not do this life because they cannot, they do not do it because they value the things I mentioned above more than being a cruiser. And you want to know what is wrong with that? NOT A SINGLE THING. Nothing. In fact, most people have fallen into the category I put above. They did not want to make those kinds of life-changing repercussions. That is why the average cruising age out here is people well into their 60s.

But looking back, remember that most of you CAN do it. Whether you chose to or not is up to you and your family. For some it is worth it. For others it is not. And both choices are right. Like I said, there are no banners here for doing this. There are no awards, no trophies, and no pennants. There are only memories.

Brian


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Cruisingdad said:


> Why? Why is that bad? Why do you have to be a cruiser to enjoy a 'cruising' boat? Why can't the guy that just goes for a sail on his boat for a day, or even one that never leaves the dock, be happy and use his boat in the manner that he feels is right for him? I personally have no problem with that. You do not have to be a cruiser to enjoy a cruising boat and use it for the use you feel is right for you.


Cruising boats are designed for cruising and a lot has been compromised in what regards performance as a sailboat and the pleasure to sail it. If the boat is not used for cruising but for daysailing or racing than a less compromised and much more pleasing boat to sail would be much more appropriated.



Cruisingdad said:


> ...
> From my perspective, when you call everyone a cruiser, then no one is. The word loses all meaning. That is also the problem with labels and describing them. But in reflecting back on what seems the general consensus of "this is a cruiser" and how you and others have defined it, I begin to think I am not a cruiser at all. I do not know what words describe the life I live. Probably not a 'cruiser'. No. Me and my family are not cruisers. We are gypsies... water gypsies who are passionate about sailing and cruising.
> 
> Come join us... you wont regret it.


I don't call everybody a cruiser and that thing of a state of mind to define a cruiser seems bull to me. I call a cruiser to the ones that cruise regularly and like to cruise, at least while they cruise.

Some have more time out of work to do it, some less but if they cruise every year when they can....they are cruisers.

There are live aboards (many) that never cruise and even you are only cruising a small part of your time in the boat. In winter or with bad weather I bet you stay put for a considerable amount of time in one place. That is not cruising, cruising implies to move around frequently. When I cruise very rarely I pass the night on the same anchorage and almost each day I pass between 4 and 8 hours sailing. When I do more than that, I am not cruising anymore but voyaging and voyaging happens sometimes in the middle of a cruise.

Nobody cruises all the time.



Cruisingdad said:


> After that, cut the lines. Sail away. Go somewhere for the day or a month. You are only limited by your finances and interests. If money starts getting tight, go somewhere and get a short term job to help resupply the cruising kitty. That is a cruiser to me.
> 
> Now, most people that read this think I am crazy or anyone that does that is crazy. they cannot imagine shutting down their profession... they may never get it back. They love their house(s). They have zero interest in home schooling their kids or do not think they should because their kids have friends or their kids are doing well in school and sports. They cannot imagine life without a car. Their furniture are heirlooms and not replaceable. Touch their retirement?? Are you kidding me!?? Stupid, insane, financially reckless.
> 
> So in the end, they do not do this life because they cannot, they do not do it because they value the things I mentioned above more than being a cruiser. And you want to know what is wrong with that? NOT A SINGLE THING. Nothing. In fact, most people have fallen into the category I put above. They did not want to make those kinds of life-changing repercussions. That is why the average cruising age out here is people well into their 60s.


Many could not pay a cruising life without working and would only be able to live in a boat having a gypsy life when they retire. But even if I could I doubt that I would. The children need stability and soon they will need a high school and a University. Stability, friends and socialization are important for them.

Even now that I can I don't want it, I mean living full time in a boat. I don't want to pass the winter on a boat. I want to have a part of the year for the family and friends. I don't only to cruise on the boat. I like very much to cruise on my roadster. This winter was really a bad one and the spring come late and I missed cruising on the car. Hell, I don't like only sailing, I love to drive my sports car.

The point is that many people even if they could would not choose to live on a boat...even if they cruise a lot of time, on a boat, motorcycle or car. That is not only in what regards boats that I like variety. Regarding life too.

I am happy you and your family are enjoying living without a fixed address. I like to do that sometimes, not all the times and I bet that I am not the only one.

That means I am not a cruiser? I have made probably 200 000 kms cruising on a motorcycle and a car and probably 30 or 40 000Nm doing that on a sailboat, if that does not qualify me as a cruiser....well then I have cruised a lot without being a cruiser

Regards

Paulo


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PCP said:


> Cruising boats are designed for cruising and a lot has been compromised in what regards performance as a sailboat and the pleasure to sail it. If the boat is not used for cruising but for daysailing or racing than a less compromised and much more pleasing boat to sail would be much more appropriated.
> 
> I don't call everybody a cruiser and that thing of a state of mind to define a cruiser seems bull to me. I call a cruiser to the ones that cruise regularly and like to cruise, at least while they cruise.
> 
> ...


And you know what's wrong with the way you use your boat Paulo and how you will use it? Not a single thing, my friend.

But understand, my kids were on board at 5 days old. I sold my house and moved aboard in 2000-2001. My kids have known little else than boating. Sometimes that was FT cruising, sometimes living aboard, and sometimes vacationing/sabbatical/long weekends. I don't keep track of miles anymore. I stay as long as I want. I move when I want. Nothing to prove.

In fact, it is winter that it the best weather here and we often move the most or anchor out the most!! Highs in the 70's, low in the 60's. It is the summer that is a killer (highs in the 90s, lows in the 80s or maybe high 70s). That is why I want to go up the east coast this year perhaps and cool off!

The trick for the kids is finding other kid boats. We are with two right now. In fact, as I write this, they are out playing baseball together! They are all cruisers and cruising kids, all home schooled. My life is not unique.

Some of our differences in opinion are also cultural, Paulo. The literal use of the word 'cruiser' is different here I think than maybe how it is literally translated in Europe. And I have never heard anyone called a voyager, and I have done this since 1995. You are the first person to use that word to me. THat is another reason I think we see things differently.

But what matters is that we are both using our boats as we see fit, and are happy with them. I cruise very differently than you do, which maybe explains to you why we are so far apart on the racer-cruiser thread. My definitions are different. Not better or worse, but different.

Take care - off to watch the kids play ball, then to the boat and get supper ready, then a beer, the grill (I am having fresh wahoo tonight... straight off the boat)!!, then the sunset.

Brian


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Brian- You sir are a cruiser. G-d bless you and all who sail with you. I may go cruising and hope shortly to be a cruiser but you are a cruiser by anyone's definition.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

outbound said:


> Brian- You sir are a cruiser. G-d bless you and all who sail with you. I may go cruising and hope shortly to be a cruiser but you are a cruiser by anyone's definition.


I like: Best Looking and smartest male moderator better. That is the only one that is unquestionably true, proven, certified, etc, etc, and so forth.

HEHE! I love harassing my brotherin and sisterin! In fact... that reminds me of a new thread about Jeff...

Brian


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Cruisingdad said:


> ....
> Some of our differences in opinion are also cultural, Paulo. The literal use of the word 'cruiser' is different here I think than maybe how it is literally translated in Europe. And I have never heard anyone called a voyager, and I have done this since 1995. You are the first person to use that word to me. THat is another reason I think we see things differently.
> ...


I have posted on this thread the definitions I could find regarding cruising. It seems to me that they are pretty universal:

*To sail or travel about, as for pleasure or reconnaissance.
To go or move along, especially in an unhurried or unconcerned fashion...
cruise - definition of cruise by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

to travel without destination or purpose
Cruise - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

to sail about on a pleasure trip.
to travel about without a particular purpose or destination.
Cruise | Define Cruise at Dictionary.com

sail about in an area without a precise destination, especially for pleasure
Definition of cruise in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)*

I pretty much agree with them.

Regarding to voyage and to cruise, there are a big difference, a voyager does not travel without destination or purpose. When I cruise most of the times I don't know where I am going to pass the night. I study the options and then let the wind and sea pretty much decide the better option to anchor. When I voyage I want to go from point A to B and want to do it as fast as I can. There is a big difference.

Regarding the term voyager used to sailors it is not very common, but there are some that voyage much more time than what they cruise and curiously the term voyage boat exist (at least in Europe) and correspond to a boat adapted for that kind of sailors.

Voyager, definitions:

*A long journey to a foreign or distant place, especially by sea.
To sail across; traverse*

voyager - definition of voyager by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

*.. travel, or passage, esp one to a distant land or by sea or air
...to travel over or traverse (something)..
*
Voyager | Define Voyager at Dictionary.com

*someone who travels on a long journey, especially by boat
*
voyager - definition of voyager by Macmillan Dictionary

But maybe you are right in what regards to the word voyager to have a slightly different meaning in Europe, after all it come from the Latin. Here the word seems not to have that (going to) "far away" meaning that seems to be vulgar in American English. Looking at a Portuguese dictionary (and in French would be the same) the meaning is (translated):

*Going from one place to another relatively distant place. .. A person that is voyaging.*

viajar In Infopédia [Em linha]. Porto: Porto Editora, 2003-2013. [Consult. 2013-05-06].
Disponível na www: <URL: http://www.infopedia.pt/lingua-portuguesa/viajar>.

http://www.infopedia.pt/lingua-portuguesa/viajar

Have a nice sunset

Regards

Paulo


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i pass the night at sea or wherever my boat is located.
there are many kinds of cruisers, not just one.
there are vacation cruisers, credit card cruisers, permanent cruisers, trust fund cruisers, disabled cruisers, part time cruisers, full time cruisers..refitting boat cruisers, brand new boat cruisers, ocean liner cruisers, many different kinds.

so have a fun time arguing who is a real cruiser....


my personal favorite is one most call derelict cruiser....rodlmao--they smarter than anyone.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

If ya ain't enjoying life, don't much matter what label ya put on it. There are those who worry about defining their life, and then there's those who just live their life. Under weigh, by sail or motor, tied to a dock or at anchor, overnight stay or thousand night stay, I'm _cruising_ through life .... what ever label you pick for it.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Paulo,
You talk about stability for the children. With Brian as their father ? I don't know that the two are mutually compatible. 

Brian,
Your definition does make sense though I still think state of mind is apt.

Cheers

Andrew B


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

tdw said:


> Paulo,
> You talk about stability for the children. With Brian as their father ? I don't know that the two are mutually compatible.
> 
> ....
> ...


You are too bad. I guess that I see it as a teacher with 35 years experience with kids. I knew some kids that had gypsy cruisers as fathers, in fact I become friend with the fathers and later with them.

Basically it will come a time where the knowledge of Brian and his wife will not be enough to school the kids. Normally that will happen at best when they reach 9th grade (it happened sooner with the kids I am talking about). Remember that at that age the kids have already 8 or 9 specialists as teachers, each one very knowledgeable at a particular area of knowledge considered important for their education, not to mention socialization.

At that times boys and girls become also more interested in each other and in variety if you know what I mean.

From that time on Brian would be forced to be on a given place almost all the year and cruise only on the school holidays. He will try to move the boat to live in different places but at that time he will meet a big resistance from the kids.

In the end the kids will meet someone is some place and want to live with him and the family will become scattered. If one of the kids wants to continue sailing, soon it will find a soul mate and he will live to live in another boat or with another person.

Off course that can run in a different direction, I was only putting Brian in my friend's shoes:

I knew him in Peniche, one of his daughters live in Madeira, other in Antwerp, other on Martinique, the wife in London and he unfortunately had already passed way and at that time sailed alone with his wive on the Caribbean. Can you imagine the difficulty in meeting with his kids or to play with the nieces, not to mention helping when it is needed?

Regards

Paulo


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

zeehag said:


> i pass the night at sea or wherever my boat is located.
> there are many kinds of cruisers, not just one.
> there are vacation cruisers, credit card cruisers, permanent cruisers, trust fund cruisers, disabled cruisers, part time cruisers, full time cruisers..refitting boat cruisers, brand new boat cruisers, ocean liner cruisers, many different kinds.
> 
> ...


You know, I believe you are absolutely right. You forgot one though: Best looking and smartest cruiser!

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PCP said:


> You are too bad. I guess that I see it as a teacher with 35 years experience with kids. I knew some kids that had gypsy cruisers as fathers, in fact I become friend with the fathers and later with them.
> 
> Basically it will come a time where the knowledge of Brian and his wife will not be enough to school the kids. Normally that will happen at best when they reach 9th grade (it happened sooner with the kids I am talking about). Remember that at that age the kids have already 8 or 9 specialists as teachers, each one very knowledgeable at a particular area of knowledge considered important for their education, not to mention socialization.
> 
> ...


That's certainly a possibility Paulo.

Like I said, I am writing a book on this and on living aboard. It also has a section on boat selection - you will love it (hehehe). But in all seriousness, what you describe is one of the key things that pass through a parents mind (or should) as cruisers. Mark Of Sea Life pointed that out quit accurately in his post in the Childrens forum. The key to this is not going until you cannot take it anymore, but instead constantly trying to organize your destinations on the kids and making things work for them. One way to do this is finding other kid boats and letting them interact with their peers. They will have the same issues and the same experiences. They generally see life the same and get along well. There have only been two exceptions for us, but that is a different subject.

Brian


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Wandering a bit here, but my wife teaches preschool in a relatively affluent neighbourhood, and she hears (from parents and older sibling 'alumni') all about public schooling, home schooling, French immersion, private/religious schools etc.

I think that Paulo is right about limits of home schooling esp the parents are not trained teachers (though many are). However I think the cultural and experiential gains in a cruising lifestyle, esp if it involves international travel, is a valuable factor and provides an 'education' that stay at home children will never get. But at the end of the day (year? 5 years?) the fundamentals have to be covered properly. I think some can do it, some perhaps not so much.

But my biggest concern about the insularity of home schooling or the liveaboard/cruising model is loss of 'real world training' in the social aspects of life.. learning to deal with people that aren't 'nice', being disliked, working with/against peer pressure and all the other subtle situations that come out in a large scale social setting like a normal school. It's not all 'good', but I think it's a necessary lesson to learn as one ventures out into the real world.. it's nice to have at least learned some of those skills before entering the 'real world'...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Yep faster, you are right. That is why i think it is so critical to find other boat kids. 

There are many positives to cruising with kids, but you just pointed out one of the negatives. Of course, it all depends on the child and how long, but when my kids get around other typical american kids, they sometimes have difficulties socializing. Interesting that they seem to get along fine with the typical asian families, though. There are many cultural things that may be common, i guess. 

But they have difficulties with bullies and bullying. They simply have not been exposed to much of that. It isn't a function of not taking up for themselves, but not understanding how to react. 

It is not to say all cruising kids are great. It still cones down to mom and dad, and there are losers on the water too. So this is all a lot of generalizations, but typically one of the things we face. 

There are other ways we have dealt with it for those that are interested. 

Brian


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