# Taking asa 101/103 with my wife. What to or not to do as the husband?



## Timtom (Oct 20, 2021)

Seems like it should be a pretty evident thing but figured I would ask anyways as some might have pointers I haven't thought of. Neither of us "direct" the relationship, we don't fight or yell at each other (well very rarely), I am okay with giving space and time. A pretty normal and standard relationship. My thought is that it should just be between her and the teacher for the learning and I should just sit in the head (or the bow) when it's her turn to "do"? 

We live by the water and enjoy spending time kayaking on the bay. We did some dinghy sailing last summer which we both enjoyed (though she did not like to heel), but I am more the driving force for us getting a sailboat. 

Some have mentioned in another thread about a boat question, that she should take these courses on her own but we are doing the course together in the Caribbean and the course has been paid for (not refundable!).


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## danstanford (Aug 3, 2010)

How about listening and learning (or appearing to learn) near her with a promise to yourself to not add anything to her experience. What she says to the instructor will be illuminative for you as well if you want to truly be on her team going forward.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

Timtom said:


> Seems like it should be a pretty evident thing but figured I would ask anyways as some might have pointers I haven't thought of.
> ===============================================
> 
> why don't you ask her?
> Is your relationship.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

figure what was wrong with this picture
the heading

What not to do as the husband?

We are sailors, you aspire to become sailors


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## Timtom (Oct 20, 2021)

Right, should have said what to or not to... Title edited to reflect that.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

great
last I checked on the book of tittles, we found skipper, captain, owner.
as a team, the only tittle I learn to cherish was, my companion.
you will do fine


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

So I have thoughts on this, as one of the few female sailors here and also someone who took a docking class with a married couple which was pretty enlightening to have a ring-side seat 

What to do: take this as an opportunity to learn, establish sailing teamwork skills with your spouse, and have fun. Remember we do this for fun, if everyone isn't having a good time you are doing it wrong

What not to do: Keep any spousal nagging, lecturing, fixing, condescending 'you did a great job there honey' or know-it-all lecturing out of the class (the last will also annoy your instructor). Treat your spouse the same way you would anyone else in the class, if you wouldn't say it to another classmate or do it to another classmate, don't do it to your spouse.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Do NOT take the class to appease your SO!
Do NOT be afraid to make mistakes in front of each other! You SHOULD make mistakes and be able to laugh about them!
Be supportive when things are done well (lots of "High 5's" and Fist bumps!).
Engage with other students in the boat as you do with your SO. (lots of "High 5's" and Fist bumps!)
Do not look at your SO for guidance! Look to the instructor.

Realize that Sailing (and Skiing, and riding a two wheeled bicycle) is a SKILL. You are learning how to do new things, learning (and applying) new terms, and building muscle memory. One of you will get the hang of it before the other, and that should be expected.

Both Brendan and Paul are there to help you have a good time. Enjoy it!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Talk things through
Dont yell because that means you did poor job of talking through


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Duct tape for your mouth. If that doesn't work, that Gorilla Tape stuff seems to have some substantial cling to it. 

Typically, women are going to do better learning from the instructor than their husbands. 

Now, my wife would never take a course. Her interest level in sailing isn't that high. However, we're out on our 31 Catalina a lot. She's a good passenger, can take the wheel under some conditions, is somewhat helpful when docking, but will NEVER get the hang of the sailing thing. Her ability to forget vital information is staggering. Give her 24 hours, and it's gone. Or ten minutes, sometimes. 

But, like I said, she's a good passenger, and doesn't get freaked out by heeling and rough water. And, she's enthusiastic in general. 

So, it's up to me to accept it for what it is, and work around her sailing deficiencies. 

Your wife is taking the ASA course. Grrrreat. Sounds like you're on your way. Good luck.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

Siamese said:


> Duct tape for your mouth. If that doesn't work, that Gorilla Tape stuff seems to have some substantial cling to it.
> 
> Typically, women are going to do better learning from the instructor than their husbands.
> 
> ...


===============================================
excellent
that is my point
companionship
I truly cherished it because we were much on the same situation, she came along because she wanted to be with me.

On a different take seems like the answer to his question is on her, been living together and by now they should know what really pis...of the other, so, lay down the rules on how they attempt to develop a team approach to learn how to sail together.
easy does it.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

correction
pi....off the other


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Yell!

It works!

Someone on my boat does not take instruction from me. But realises when I yell she should stand near the Life Raft.

Get her to do the course without you near.

Then she will know what to do when you yell.

😊


Mark


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

Another thought
May be she should start another thread 
What to do or not to do as the wife


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Welp, TT, I see a you making effort to own IE be the driving force just on this simple discussion. You also used the word "I" five or six times, and you made it a point to state that; you are the driving force.. so I view the whole thing as you driving your wife to learn.

If she doesn't want to learn she won't! If she wants to learn she will! Paid for in advance is a guilt trip often used to get a spouse to do something they're reluctant to do because "we" don't want to lose money. 

Just a guess, did you pay for the lessons then try & sell it to your spouse? I hope she thought of it too!

Yes, I come off like a angry man hater, but the gentleman here know I'm not, (anymore? ) I just like to see thoughts turned into into readable words. And, I'm often completely wrong about these types of discussions (but, not that often) lol

And there's that nagging fear.. what if you go overboard? then there is that nagging question for her ..does she want try to save you.....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Standard advice would be to not take the class together. If you both prefer to do this together, there should be an understanding going in that you don't know each other in class. A healthy relationship wants to help each other, praise the wins, etc. You need to be able to treat each other like you would a stranger. Some can, most can't.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

"Some can, most can't."


cannot remember
was some kind of words play
so many marriages wrecked on the shores of sailing/cruising?


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Do, and say nothing. In fact it is better if you are in separate classes. There are female instructors who specialize in instructing women.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I've taught a few dozen 101 and 103 classes the last few years and have seen a wide spectrum of behaviors.
You are your wife are the team. The instructor is only going to be with you for a few hours.
I would recommend having this conversation with her? 
Maybe she would prefer you to keep quiet and maybe she would prefer you to help sometimes.
As an instructor, I look at the interaction. If the spouse is doing a good job explaining something and it is being well received I keep my mouth shut. If someone is being aggravated I step in shut it down.
As others have said it is supposed to be fun. 
I don't lecture and use a more Socratic method myself so everyone is explaining everything to everyone all the time anyway so students taking part in explanations are part of the process anyway.

What I would recommend is that you read both books and make sure that both of you know all the terminology. Also, practice the knots. If you know all of that before the class it will be much less intimidating. The test is more than fifty percent terminology and if you are struggling with tack, clew, breast line, dutchman etc. you will have less mental power to work on how to wind makes the boat go which is the part you have to feel and can't get very well from a book.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Standard advice would be to not take the class together. If you both prefer to do this together, there should be an understanding going in that you don't know each other in class. A healthy relationship wants to help each other, praise the wins, etc. You need to be able to treat each other like you would a stranger. Some can, most can't.


I'm sure that is true for some folks but I like to teach couples and it seems to work out fine. If one of the pair is a faster learner then I position that as a good thing. In fact, I can almost always find a complementary strength with a couple. For example, I might say: "Wow Sam you really have this tacking thing down to a science, and Mary your understanding of the rules of the road is right on the money. In just a couple of days between the two of you, I think we have a sailor. They feel good about their accomplishment as a team.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> Do NOT take the class to appease your SO!
> Do NOT be afraid to make mistakes in front of each other! You SHOULD make mistakes and be able to laugh about them!
> Be supportive when things are done well (lots of "High 5's" and Fist bumps!).
> Engage with other students in the boat as you do with your SO. (lots of "High 5's" and Fist bumps!)
> ...


I think Ed has done this before. Spot on 
I


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

deniseO30 said:


> If she doesn't want to learn she won't! If she wants to learn she will! Paid for in advance is a guilt trip often used to get a spouse to do something they're reluctant to do because "we" don't want to lose money.


That is for sure. 
As an instructor, I've seen a couple of times that a wife didn't want to learn.
When that happens I just roll with it and emphasize the joys of just being on the water.
Whenever possible I try to pause the drills and just sail for a few minutes and make sure everyone gets to feel what cruising is like.

I try to make it clear that what we are doing is not sailing, we are learning to sail which is completely different.
It is totally possible to love cruising and not like to learn sailing.


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## thumper53 (May 26, 2017)

My wife and I took the asa101 103 together as a team 4 years ago.
We had never sailed befor Bought a 303 Pearson took the classes on our boat.
Been one of the best things we have done in our 42 years of marrage.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

davidpm said:


> I'm sure that is true for some folks but I like to teach couples and it seems to work out fine. If one of the pair is a faster learner then I position that as a good thing. In fact, I can almost always find a complementary strength with a couple. For example, I might say: "Wow Sam you really have this tacking thing down to a science, and Mary your understanding of the rules of the road is right on the money. In just a couple of days between the two of you, I think we have a sailor. They feel good about their accomplishment as a team.


Sounds like a great approach.


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

thumper53 said:


> My wife and I took the asa101 103 together as a team 4 years ago..........
> My wife and I
> as a team
> Elementary Watson. Elementary.!!!


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Let the instructor instruct and run the boat. If the instructor is any good, they'll see where both of your strengths and weaknesses are. Don't get in the way. You're paying a lot of money for that.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Yell!
> It works!


I took a 104 course with another female sailor and a male instructor. He yelled at us for not yelling at each other more while operating the boat during a day of rough conditions. 

We told him that we each knew the other one was more likely to get upset if screamed at - and because upset, not be able to respond as well to a correction or a warning. He shrugged and said, "maybe it's because you two are women". Maybe. But I like to keep things calm under pressure, it keeps my head clear, and it's also a lot more fun to be on a boat when people aren't screaming at each other. Unless that's your thing


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

emcentar said:


> I--------------------
> could not help myself
> you sure this instructor wasn't singing
> 
> *"Why Can't a Woman Be More Like a Man?" Rex Harrison*


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

^ well, his own wife was a fighter pilot and presumably much tougher than us, he was probably just wishing we were more like her


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

emcentar said:


> ^ well, his own wife was a fighter pilot and presumably much tougher than us, he was probably just wishing we were more like her


==================
slow learner


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

emcentar said:


> ^ well, his own wife was a fighter pilot and presumably much tougher than us, he was probably just wishing we were more like her


Fighter pilots are awesome, just ask one! #zippersuitedsungod


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

drifting
off-topic
thread exhaustion?
thread high jack?
free idea's association?
on fighter pilots
really enjoy this series


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZSvXwSH6flqA0q_EEDDBQ/videos


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

How about asking her if she wants you to do anything in particular? I suspect not, but we're not privy to your relationship.

My spouse and I took our first intro course (Canadian equivalent). It was a week-long liveaboard cruising course and there was one other student on the boat, along with the instructor. Neither of us had much experience with sailing, although we were/are both competent canoe/kayakers. I had a little more under sail.

We just approached the course as equal students. We were both there to learn. Her leaning style and needs are slightly different than mine. She did her thing, I did mine. Easy...


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I think a couple taking a cruising class together is a brilliant idea. I have no idea what these courses are like... but I assume it would give newbs a taste of what cruising is about... and knowledge is a good thing!


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

PhilCarlson said:


> Let the instructor instruct and run the boat. If the instructor is any good, they'll see where both of your strengths and weaknesses are. Don't get in the way. You're paying a lot of money for that.


I am not perhaps ideally experienced to offer good advice, but I think that - after "don't do it together" - I would take this approach. Let the instructor provide all feedback, information, direction. I'll provide my experience, take it for what you will. 

In my case, I had a history of sailing, and only did the 101 and 103 at my wife's insistence since she felt I needed to get "officially certified". I certainly found some rules of the road and systems information helpful, but we started out with a not-insignificant difference in sailing experience. Fortunately, I was able to get her to do a separate intro course (she has not wanted to do the 103). She is an anxious sailor and that ramps up dramatically at more than 5deg of heel; I am a fly-the-hull cat guy, and this difference has probably been good about making me learn new habits about letting it out and sailing flat to make better SOG. However, that anxiety sometimes gets expressed in the fear-as-anger mode, which isn't fun and I don't think is great for a relationship.

I did my 101 and 103 with another student who was a complete novice with all aspects (engines, sailing, etc.) and it became readily apparent when we went to cast off. The instructor certainly didn't miss it, and "differentiated" the instruction right off (and then used me as a bad example training exercise! "Why was it a bad idea for him to do it that way?" 🤣). I adopted the approach that I was going to keep my mouth shut and sit on my hands until directed by the instructor, and otherwise be supportive of my fellow student (a woman) by just smiling, offering encouraging looks and being nice. If I were on a boat with my wife, I'd absolutely do that. I think maybe it's hard for dudes to not "fix" or "help" (or mansplain), but I actually don't think this is a male/female thing. 

...and because the forum software suggested another thread from hersailnet about sharing the helm...I never have the helm, except for docking and departing (or any other time my wife feels too uncomfortable). I think that's done more than anything to acclimate her to the way the boat moves and helped develop her comfort level. I trim sails, handle the winches and get to work on my coaching skills, so we're both working on something we are equally inexperienced at. 

If anybody who does have experience teaching can offer some ideas for getting "sail to the wind" across/through I am all ears, because I haven't been able to yet. I did get her to agree to turn off Navionics...because she wants to sail to the pretty fuscia line. Also any ideas for developing that sense (feeling) of rounding up? These things just seem intuitive or innate to me but obviously they are not.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

s_ruffner said:


> If anybody who does have experience teaching can offer some ideas for getting "sail to the wind" across/through I am all ears, because I haven't been able to yet. I did get her to agree to turn off Navionics...because she wants to sail to the pretty fuscia line. Also any ideas for developing that sense (feeling) of rounding up? These things just seem intuitive or innate to me but obviously they are not.


I think tiller sailing is great for developing this ability, because you have the added feedback from the tiller. I find it much easier to sail by feel in my small beach catamaran than behind the wheel of my little cruiser.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

emcentar said:


> I find it much easier to sail by feel in my small beach catamaran than behind the wheel of my little cruiser.


Yeah, this is it, 100%. I can't get her to brave going out on the cat.

Maybe it's time to revisit the idea of a Capri 22 or the like.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I should add, my spouse and I both took subsequent courses at the intermediate and advanced levels. All these other courses we did independently. 

These kinds of questions are more to do with relationship dynamics than they are with sailing or cruising. Our approach to cruising is to share *all* duties and roles. Underway we specifically and intentionally alternate, on a daily basis, between roles on board. Basically, we both do everything. And that includes her hauling up the anchor, and me being the galley slave.

This approach makes sense to us, since it's just two of us on board. This is not to say we are both equal in all tasks. She's much better on the helm, and at docking. I'm slightly stronger, and I don't get seasick, so circumstance sometimes drives our role choices. 

I guess all of this is to say to the OP; if you truly want a partner in this sailing and cruising lifestyle, then your wife needs to find her own way. So just get out of _her_ way. Support her if she needs it (and let her support you when you do), but just let her learn as she needs.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> I should add, my spouse and I both took subsequent courses at the intermediate and advanced levels. All these other courses we did independently.
> 
> These kinds of questions are more to do with relationship dynamics than they are with sailing or cruising. Our approach to cruising is to share *all* duties and roles. Underway we specifically and intentionally alternate, on a daily basis, between roles on board. Basically, we both do everything. And that includes her hauling up the anchor, and me being the galley slave.
> 
> ...


Lucky you! My SO does not want to learn to sail or drive... essentially too much responsibility.... fear of disaster and so on. But she does help in ways she can... and is a great watch... cooks and does things like snatch the mooring or take the dock lines ashore, put fenders and lines away... help take the main down. All appreciated.


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## Timtom (Oct 20, 2021)

Thank you very much for some of your replies. Very helpful suggestions there. I certainly think it will be good for us to talk "formally" about what each of us is hoping to get out of the class as that will establish context and understanding for our differences. 

Btw, the sailing course was her idea.


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## thumper53 (May 26, 2017)

A open mind without too many preconceived and set in stone expectations worked well for me and my wife.
As it works out she is the captain keeps the sails filled cheats the wind when she can, she is good at it.
All else is mine we switch off from time to time just so if need be one CAN do it all.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Men in the ladies room...


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## Davil (Oct 9, 2017)

*Timtom*Joined 31 d ago
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 · 16 h ago


*Timtom*

"I certainly think it will be good for us to talk "formally" about what each of us is hoping to get out of the class as that will establish context and understanding for our differences."

Btw, the sailing course was her idea.
[/QUOTE]
============================
finally you got it


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> Men in the ladies room...


Funny... I didn't even notice. 

The way I use SN, I don't even see what sub-category the thread appears in. I just click the "NEW" button, and then key into threads which are interesting to me.


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## janccornelius (Oct 28, 2021)

Timtom said:


> Seems like it should be a pretty evident thing but figured I would ask anyways as some might have pointers I haven't thought of. Neither of us "direct" the relationship, we don't fight or yell at each other (well very rarely), I am okay with giving space and time. A pretty normal and standard relationship. My thought is that it should just be between her and the teacher for the learning and I should just sit in the head (or the bow) when it's her turn to "do"?
> 
> We live by the water and enjoy spending time kayaking on the bay. We did some dinghy sailing last summer which we both enjoyed (though she did not like to heel), but I am more the driving force for us getting a sailboat.
> 
> Some have mentioned in another thread about a boat question, that she should take these courses on her own but we are doing the course together in the Caribbean and the course has been paid for (not refundable!).


Your instructor will make sure that all the students split time at the helm, the winches, and on other tasks. He/she should also be aware of couples (or other students) where one is being too dominant, and discourage that behavior. You won't have much opportunity to go sit in the head while she's "doing", since you will probably be doing something else. When my wife and I took a course together, I tried to treat her like she was just another student, and didn't offer advice unless she asked for it. And she returned the favor. 

As DavidPM says, read the books before you get there, and memorize as much of the terminology as you can. Have fun!


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