# Dinghy: to plane or not to plane....



## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

I'm starting to look at dinghies -- it is almost as tough as picking the main vessel! 

Given the following:

Use davits
Typically carry ~300-400 lbs (2 people)
Occasionally want to be able to carry 4 people
We are planning on heading south from the Chesapeake, cruising the ICW, Bahamas, and maybe further into the Caribbean. 

I'm thinking that a hypalon RIB in the 8-9 ft makes a lot of sense.

But what about motor size? How big of a motor do I need to be able to plane? I think it is about a 10 HP or so.

Do I want to be able to plane for the type of cruising I'm talking about? Or is it better to get a smaller motor, and the associated less weight?

What about the single floor vs. double floor? I like the simplicity and lighter weight of the single floor.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One thing.. I'd point out that you probably want a dink motor that is light enough that the smallest adult crew member can lift it and mount/dismount the motor from the dinghy in less than ideal conditions. One of my friends has an AB 9' 6" fiberglass hulled RIB with a Tohatsu 3.5 HP outboard on it. They can run with four adults in 20 knots of wind....but not on plane. However, the engine is only about 40 lbs. and their 13 year-old son can mount it on the dinghy by himself.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I'd second the Tohatsu/Nissan 3.5 also look for the new AB dinks that have aluminum hull instead of FG, they seen to be becomming the hot ticket, ultra light @ 8-9' to where two people can lift it easy over their heads; The alu has a brushed finished not painted with rubber anti slip strips, nice dink


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The one advantage of the fiberglass hulled RIBs is the ease of repair. Most people can learn to patch the fiberglass hull reasonably well, which is not the case with the very thin aluminum hull on the aluminum hulled RIBs.


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

You can put me in the camp of those who want to plane. I agree with the alum RIBs but i would consider a HP floor too. I have 2 RIBs. An old 10.2 Avon. It's heavy but a great boat, very stable and predictable. The other is a Caribe C9, it has a double floor. I don't like it much. It is more difficult to plane and I see no advantage to the double floor. I prefer 2 stroke engines because they are lightweight and can be easily handled, but they are louder than a 4 stroke. My 15hp Johnson weighs about 80 lbs. I plan on getting rid of the Caribe and getting a HP floor 10'.2. The Caribe is too heavy for me to load it on the deck by myself and is too short to plane properly/comfortably. If I install Davits I would use my Avon anyway so something like a 79 lb Achilles 10 footer would be a good compromise for the front deck.

A planing boat is great for touring. Otherwise I would be tempted to forgo the gas altogether and just row or sail.

If you are going with a planing boat I would go with a 10 footer. If not then a shorter and much lighter boat will have it's advantages. 

Davits - 10' RIB (alum would be great)

Beaching wheels are great. BTW

Gene


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If you only want your dink to get from anchor/mooring to shore, go as small and light as possible and forget planing. Much easier to deal with.

However, if your dink is going to be part of the entertainment value of your boat by allowing you to explore the shallows or zip around the island, then go as big as you can accommodate. Limbo in the middle seems to be too heavy to deal with easily and too small to really enjoy.

I'm all in for what I can carry. 11ft, steering console, 18hp engine with stern planes. She hangs off serious davits with the engine remaining on the dink. You couldn't disassemble the steering linkage in any reasonable time to hoist the engine separately. It takes one main winch to pull her up the 6x blocks. It has made the time at anchor a real blast for everyone and greatly extended our reach. 

The significant downside to this setup is heavy weather sailing. The davits are very secure in coastal cruising, even in 10ft seas, as personally tested. No way they would be appropriate for serious blue water, or following crashing seas and the console prevents it from being flipped and lashed on deck. The best we can imagine for that blue water trip, is taking her apart and hauling her on the foredeck. It would just be relatively out of commission until arriving at a long term port.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

If you're going cruising, especially the Bahamas, get the biggest dink you can fit on your davits and a 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke. I've always had at leat a 10 foot RIB , carried on the davits or arch (2 different boats) with the motor mounted on the dink. Most popular combination is a 10'06" AB RIB and the 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke. If you get anything less you will soon switch. In the Bahamas we go miles and miles in our dinks, fishing or exploring. Mine's second from the front with the netting to prevent chafe.


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## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses.

I think I lean towards having a setup that gives me the ability to plane and explore. On charter trips I've done, I really like the flexibility it gives. Town is a couple miles away and need ice? No problem -- hop in the dink and your there in no time.

When, if ever, do you take the outboard off the dingy and put it on the stern rail? Longer passages? Heavier weather? What's the thinking there? 

If I have davits, can I use the davits to hoist the outboard up onto the rail?

Again, our plan is coastal cruising/island hoping...


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

Unless we are doing a simple day sail, we remove the engine and store on the rail. For any passage, we put the dinghy on the deck.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I just upgraded to a new Achilles 9'2" RIB mated with a 9.8hp Tohatsu...from a 10' Avon Inflatable Floor and 2hp Honda and love the new one, and the Achilles is such a better boat than the Avon...NEVER will I buy another Avon...POS!

It will plane easily with just me, pretty easily with me & my wife, but has difficulty planning with me, wife, and two young kids. I wanted a shorter dingy so it would fit better on our davit and boat, and it does. *However I probably should have gone with the 10' RIB and a 15hp*. For now though considering where we are and what we do now this one works fantastic. I also installed a Forespar Engine lift, a must, now way are you going to lift a 80# engine on your own (BTW, I was disappointed that the engine lift came with a single block and not a double, I just replaced the block and of course it so easy to lift now its silly)

I am looking at adding a fin to the engine to help with planning or maybe tabs on the dingy itself? I'll let you know if I see any improvement ;-)

You should be prepared to drop some bucks though:

Davit = Garhauer $800.00 Garhauer Marine Hardware -1316289
Engine Lift = Forespar $500 Nova Lift
Dingy = Achilles $3000 Rigid Hull Inflatable (RIB) 9' 2"
Engine = Tohatsu $1700 9.8 HP 4-Stroke
Boat Cover = Taylor $100.00 Taylor Made Products 2010 Product Catalog

$7000 + other incidentals

If you cant store the RIB on deck then get a inflatable floor (my boat neighbor had to do this because of his baby stay), but if you are going to do davits and want to plane then get a RIB, no question!

And no, I don't see how you can use the davit to lift the engine unless it mounted way high? What kind of boat?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

I sail with the dink and motor on the arch or davits. On my B393 I have an arch (see avatar) and on my CS36M I have a set of Ocean Marine davits which I think are the best going. My longest trip is only about two days and I have run into some bad weather in the gulf stream but if the dink is lashed well (4 ratchet straps) and there is absolutely no movement it's fine. It's important to prevent shock loads and that's what'll happen if the dink is not secure. I reckon the dink and motor and tank etc. is about 350 pounds.
Ocean Marine Systems - Davits, Rails, Lifts, and Platforms.

Also go with a two stroke if at all possible. I know they're no longer available but buy a small outboard in the US and when you get to Nassau get a 15 hp Yamaha for $2100, no tax. Keep the small one as a spare or sell it to some one that need a small ob. Many folks that take the ob off have a small one too for running the dog ashore on a quick stopover. When they get to the Bahamas they put the big ob on.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

In my experience if you want to plane you should avoid the single-floor "light" dinghies. They don't have the weight forward to keep the bow down with the weight current generation of four-stroke engines. I have a Caribe L9 and a Honda 9.9 and it is a real challenge to get up on plane. It's easier with two people than one!

If I had it to do again I'd get a Caribe 10x or an AB aluminum 10 and a 2-stroke Yahama 15. You may have to get to the Bahamas to find a 2-stroke Yahama. 

If you're really cruising you will want a fast dinghy.

On the other hand I've done without davits for four years and don't regret the decision. I tow the dink or stick it on the foredeck. Not a big deal.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I should mention I have a love - hate relationship with davits, they have many positives and just as many negatives IMO


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> .........If you're really cruising you will want a fast dinghy..............l.


'lots of choices here, but I don't see this as a rule.
We were really cruising with our Caribe 10X with a 15hp Yamaha 2-stroke and now we are really cruising with our Caribe 9L and a 5hp Honda 4-sroke. All these choices are compromises. I gave up the speed for the light weight on my davits offshore. The deck is a good choice to mount the dinghy for passages, but I like the davits. 'not fast rules,- many good options...'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

If you like to explore then a dinghy that planes is necessary. We have a 25 year old 10 ft. Archilles with with plywood floors which will plane with a 5 hp Nissan (2 stroke) with me at 200 lbs and my mate at 120. I can handle the Nissan off the stern pulpit without any assistance, however it is about at the max weight that I can handle alone so going with the more efficeint 4 stroke will present problems until the weight comes down to under 50 pounds or I become stronger. The real problem with the dinghy is the awful hassle trying the assemble it on the limited deck space of a 37 foot boat with a club boom. In bad weather I don't like to tow the thing so maybe a roll up model is in the future, but it remains important to be able to plane.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

lancelot9898 said:


> If you like to explore then a dinghy that planes is necessary................


How do you guys come up with these "rules"? We like to explore too. Would it make any since for me to say that you can't explore if your sailboat has a draft over 6'? ....'you can't explore without SCUBA gear? There is a true rule that relates distance and time to speed; therefore, if you have the the time you can give up some speed! Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

If you might get windvane steering in future then you will have to give up on davits. We have a Monitor vane, which is an absolute essential for extended cruising, and went with a 10' air floor dinghy and a 6 hp Mercury. With two people it will plane faster than I want to go and will plane with four (with difficulty). Will also carry a lot of jerry cans full of whatever along with all the other crap full time cruisers have. 

Unless we are going a short distance in protected waters we remove with O/B with an Edson motor hoist that someone was going to pitch (it is attached to our wind generator post in an aft corner. The empty dinghy tows very well, including several between islands in the eastern Caribbean in lightish winds (up to 15 knots). For longer distances and nastier forecasts we either put the dinghy on the foredeck inflated (have to remove the inner jib stay for this) or deflate and roll up and tie to deck. It is very easy to hoist onboard with a spinnaker halyard (the winch is a Lewmar 43 as I remember).

As someone said these are all compromises that are informed by the particular characteristics of your sailing needs and mothership characteristics.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

CaptainForce said:


> How do you guys come up with these "rules"? We like to explore too. Would it make any since for me to say that you can't explore if your sailboat has a draft over 6'? ....'you can't explore without SCUBA gear? There is a true rule that relates distance and time to speed; therefore, if you have the the time you can give up some speed! Take care and joy, Aythya crew


It's not a "rule" it's good advice. We usually go in a bunch and exploring sometimes means a lot of miles. We circumnavigated Conception Island once in the Bahamas. Six dinks, all with at least a 15hp engine. A smaller engine just wouldn't cut it, instead of planing and flying over the waves you'd be going up and down up and down and getting nowhere fast.

Photo is of a bunch of us tearing around in Great Exuma.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

After the tearing around, lunch on the beach.


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

We haven't talked about bad conditions while using the dink. If you find yourself out in 2+ waves a large engine is very helpful. You can control the angle of attack for a safer and much dryer ride. It was for this very reason I got rid of a nice 8hp Yamaha for the 15. While I could plane with the 8 I could not control the edge of the plane. With the 15 I can hold the bow up and power through. 

Gene


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Regardless of whether you're in the big dinghy/big motor or big dinghy/small motor school, you do have to remember that whatever you get, you will have to stow on longer passages or in rougher weather... towing isn't always feasible or wise, either are davits IMHO.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

killarney_sailor said:


> If you might get windvane steering in future then you will have to give up on davits.............


Wait! Not another rule and ultimatum!

Actually you can have windvane steering with davits. This is easily achieved with vessels thatt have less mechanical energy required due to hydraulic steering and a simple vane can maintain a course with the system more than adequately supplied by a wind generator or solar panel. Let's drop these mandates. I'm not one for skinning cats, but if the need arises, I'll have a plan! Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Vasco said:


> It's not a "rule" it's good advice. .................Photo is of a bunch of us tearing around in Great Exuma.


Hey, good explanation and I stand corrected! I was miss led because my exploring is usually sneaking close to wildlife with a camera and it never involves "tearing around" or in the company of a pack of dinghies. I've also never found my exploring to include much in the way of harsh conditions. I think your "exploring" requires your hp. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

CaptainForce said:


> Hey, good explanation and I stand corrected! I was miss led because my exploring is usually sneaking close to wildlife with a camera and it never involves "tearing around" or in the company of a pack of dinghies.


We sneak around when we're in the turtle ponds but once in a while we go in a pack, "Hells's Grannies", I call them. Once we all landed on a quiet deserted beach where a tender from a mega-yacht has just landed their charter guests. The crew was setting up chairs and umbrellas. I guess they were getting ready for a quiet afternoon on what they thought would be their private little beach. Must have scared the hell out of them to see this pack of scruffy cruisers charging ashore with their coolers (we always carry refreshments on these trips).








.


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## southwindphoto (Sep 4, 2009)

My idea of a dinghy is a 10 foot dinghy with an aluminum insert floor with a 4 to 5 HP Yamaha four stroke. 

With this kind of set up what kind of speed should I expect with two passengers?


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## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

Six to eight mph...If you weigh less than 160 lbs you might even be able to get the boat up on plane and then you would do around 14 mph. You would be a lot better off with a 6 hp engine as you would definitely be able to get on plane...Unless you have a beer gut that acts as an additional tube


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

When we bought our boat the PO gave us a dingy that would "be OK until we got home". It had a 15hp on it and I thought well it'll do for now.

On the voyage home the dingy proved to be invaluable and I have now changed my mind about roll-ups and little outboards. We can lug 200 litres of fuel or water with ease, we have ferried up to 8 adults at a time, all our supplies fit easily and with two people (three with some work) we plane and get places a little quicker.

The other thing that no-one has metioned is that if you're doing serious voyaging (long time, far away places) it is also useful to have a dink that can move your boat at a fair lick in an emergency.

We were once becalmed with an unstartable main engine in the entrance to Nuku Hiva which has a strong current that sets across the entrance directly onto the adjacent rocks. If I had had to depend on a 2.5 hp whatever, I would have left my boat right there on the rocks and caught a plane home. A 15hp on a RIB took us safely into the anchorage and that made me decide that however much of a ball-ache it is stowing my big dink and big outboard, I'll work with it rather than have a kiddy dink.


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## Noelex (Jan 23, 2008)

When considering some of the larger tenders and bigger hp outboards it is worth checking that everyone who needs to use it can
Start it
pull it up the beach


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## birchyboy (Aug 6, 2000)

I'll have to say I love my 10 ft WalkerBay with the inflatable's on it. Although it doesn't plan it goes plenty fast enough with it's stream line sailing shape. 
I've got a 5 hp Nissan on it. Goes fast enough for me! 
Also like the option of sailing her!


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