# Lazy sheet in your lap as rail meat?



## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

Ok got on a new boat that's 50' and a rotating cast of merry crew and newbies most every time. Mostly I'm working as a grinder and helping out in the pit. Fun stuff

Before that, I was rail meat and told directly when on the high side to 'put the sheet in my lap'.... meaning the lazy jib sheet. It made me uncomfortable and I finally figured out why ... if a drunk or new crewmember is on the rail and misses the tack call ... I think their legs are going to get pinned down to the deck.

I wouldn't be able to see them as I am facing stern, grinding the winch. Since I am a big guy, the trimmer also can't see if we are grinding down on someone's legs who didn't make the tack.

The reason they do this, I am told, is if the working jib sheet broke, the 'lazy sheet could come under load immediately and spring someone over the side' and apparently some version of this scenario had happened to them.

I said that if the working sheet broke, the sail would at worst flog on the stay and both sheets would effectively be lazy.

Please correct me if I am in the wrong.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Its great you have an eye to safety. It takes a split second for a casual slip or trip to turn into a limb breaking disaster.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

With the amount of force on your sheets on a 50'er the lazy sheet could easily become a weapon in certain situations. I like to always ensure there is enough line out on a lazy sheet to not interfere with sheeting on the other side but never leave the ends of the sheet strewn about; which is the result of most tacks.


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## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

We're almost there ... and I agree Caleb ... but specifically and deliberately having all of your windward hiking meat put the lazy in their *lap* TO ME is deliberately tangling yourself in the running rigging for no reason.

If it comes up again, I am going to ask for a demonstration before/after racing. A working jib sheet can blow for a number of reasons but it will just luff/flog against the stay. the sheets may whip around but I can't see them launching anyone off the boat.

What's more likely than a working jib sheet breaking is a working jib sheet popping out of a cleat or slipping off the winch. I've seen it plenty and in my mind it's not a disaster. You would handle the situation by trying to head into the wind, grabbing the jib sheets or dropping the jib, pick a course, and bear off with your **** under control.

I don't want a drunk newbie (who doesn't know what tacking means) trapped under a working sheet because we told her to put it in her lap.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm picturing the lazy sheet going down through a block on a jib track, staying down pretty much at deck level (if loaded) and rising slightly above deck level as it heads to the primaries. 

Assuming this is right, I agree with you. If someone tacked prematurely without alerting the rail meat, rail meat would be pinned under the loaded jib sheet. Having had a 52 for 10 years, I can tell you I've been whipped by jib sheets flogging on that boat, and captain Blye has nothing on what they can do to a guy's back. A loaded jib sheet on a boat that size is bar tight. I wouldn't want to be caught under it.

I assume the opposite risk (that the crew is trying to avoid) is that to the extent the sheet when under tension lifts off the deck when heading towards the primaries, it could in a rapid tack serve as an ejection seat for the rail meat as the lazy sheet becomes actively tensioned. I'd rather be ejected than pinned.

And the specific case you are sighting, when the active sheet breaks, and the lazy sheet is just hanging, yes, I agree there is great risk that it will flog and beat up anyone on the foredeck or rail...if you are sitting on it or you have it on your lap. I don't know if I'd rather get flogged or ejected, tough choice!

The integrity of your gear on a boat this size is important...sheets, block everything.

Finally, if the helm is incompetent, excitable, or drunk enough to tack without observing crew positions for safety, I'm jumping ship without the help of the "ejection sheet.":wink


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

.. and tell the newbie to stay sober. Have a beer after the race...


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## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

capecodda said:


> I assume the opposite risk (that the crew is trying to avoid) is that to the extent the sheet when under tension lifts off the deck when heading towards the primaries, it could in a rapid tack serve as an ejection seat for the rail meat as the lazy sheet becomes actively tensioned. I'd rather be ejected than pinned.


I lost you for a second. The lazy sheet wouldn't be lifting off the deck under any load AFAIK in any of these scenarios. Yes it would be whipping but not ejecting people as I understand it.

Bottom line in my mind: If you are rail meat, do not touch, sit on, hold, pet, or put in your lap, any sheet. Keep it free at all times.

Furthermore, sometimes we prepare for a tack by gently winding up the windward winch and taking up some slack. If it's in your lap on the rail I wonder wtf is wrong with the running rigging as I set up the next tack.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

toastchee said:


> ...Furthermore, sometimes we prepare for a tack by gently winding up the windward winch and taking up some slack. If it's in your lap on the rail I wonder wtf is wrong with the running rigging as I set up the next tack.


To this point, if the lazy sheet is under the rail meat's bare legs, taking in that slack is going to be difficult, a distraction to your trimmer and likely to result in rope burns or potentially worse for your rail meat. I'm envisioning this as having the line simply running over your legs versus underneath -- not a heap of loose line waiting to snare a hand/finger or any other appendage

Your helm/tactician should be calling tacks far enough in advance to give people ample opportunity to move -- the time required to do so is going to vary based on the conditions and experience of your crew.

What works best is going to vary depending on the boat but on Grey Goose, having the lazy sheet over your legs vs. under is certainly preferable. Oh, and if you're that drunk, stay on the dock.


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## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

Clucas I maintain that:

Bottom line in my mind: If you are rail meat, do not touch, sit on, hold, pet, or put in your lap, any sheet. Keep it free at all times.


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## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

Also what if your jib gets backwinded (oops) and the trimmer takes it in on the new side? This just isn't adding up.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

I've never heard of putting the lazy sheet in your lap. Sounds wrong to me. We've always sat on it. Or rather it lays in the toerail gutter under your legs....unless it is a smaller sail that is sheeted forward.

True "railmeat" will never touch the lines.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

From my time as a commercial fisherman: Never get into the byte of a block. If a block lets go, the line well become straight. That area it sweeps through is the byte. A cable, or a line can literally cut you in half. Believe me, I've seen some incredibly powerful examples. So how does that apply here? When pressure comes onto the lazy line, and it becomes active, it will pull straight. As pointed out before, it can pin you to the deck. Do not put it on your lap if you are aft of the forward block. If you are forward of the forward block, it would not be a problem, and indeed might be better. However, one problem is that sometimes "rail meat" are inexperienced sailors who need to be taught that ALL running rigging is potentially dangerous. Actually, take out the word "potentially"!


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Stay outside the sheets. Period. When the boat tacks, go to the other side, above the jib sheets. This is how all race boats do it.


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

It's likely the original posters skipper had an experience where someone was injured while sitting on the lazy sheets. I can see how it could also create a Chinese fire drill if rail meat didn't get out of the way fast enough during a tack or jybe. 
"Prepare to come about" usually takes care of it on my boat. 
If a leeward sheet or block were to part it could cause a pretty severe rope burn but nobody is getting catapulted.


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