# Your top 3 production boat alterations



## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

After reading a bit of Smackdaddy's resurfaced "Production boats and the limits" post about what classifies a blue water boat, I started thinking about my own boat and the work I'm doing and wondered what other people might do with their boats if they were doing the same thing I'm doing. So here's what I'm doing...

I have a 1966 Columbia 29 MkII... full keel, LOA 28.5', LWL 22.5', Beam 8', 8400 lb displacement, 49% ballast, draws 4', great running Volvo 2002 diesel.

The boat was in piss poor shape when I got it (but I traded a truck that I only paid $300 for. Woot!). It had taken on water above the cabin sole for an extended period of time, and all the bottoms of the bulkheads, the settees, etc were rotted and falling apart. I completely gutted the boat and am starting over. I've heard from everyone that old Columbias were solid, well built boats. Mine was not. All bulkheads were only tabbed in with a single layer of three inch tape, and nothing more than a lowering of my shoulder was needed to bust them loose. And I'm not a big guy.

Anyways, after months of planning and drawing and thinking, I've rearranged the layout to be a more comfortable liveaboard and to stiffen up the boat. I bought an entire roll of 1708, so all glassing and tabbing will be done with 1708. No tape. I've built in new floor timbers (didn't even have them before), a new cabin sole, new bulkheads, including a bulkhead between the companionway and main cabin bulkhead that did not even exist before, and the bulkheads are tabbed into the coach roof top and sides, which was not the case before. I am adding two more fuel tanks (three total... I don't have room for one very large tank), more water tankage, and a larger holding tank. My bulkheads are very very strong, and will be tabbed in with multiple successfully wider layers of 1708 cloth. I will have new external chainplates (old chainplates were glassed into the hull and had filled with water), a new deck, furling gear, portlights, narrow quarter berth, etc.

*My question... At this stage, I am still building the structure. Nevermind electronics and communication and all that. I'm not there yet. For now, aside from everything I have already mentioned, what three things would be everyone's top choices in alterations to make the boat more structurally sound, safe, or comfortable?*

I plan to live aboard this boat and cruise in it. Mostly I will be coastal cruising, but if I ever decide to make a major crossing, I want the boat to be ready for it, and do not want to have to get a different boat or tear apart my boat to make it stronger and more capable. Since I have gutted it and am starting over, now is the time to make everything strong, practical, and ergonomical. My skills and abilities are not ready for crossings, but they will grow. My boat can always be worked on, but since it's bare, now is the time to get everything major done right.

So what are everyone's top modifications aside from what has been listed? Structural ribs? Adding ballast?


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm not so sure about the wisdom of changing the design in any big way. They did it the way they did for a reason. I'd just renew what the designer intended. The tough part is getting the new laminate to stick well to the old. 

On a small boat like that, or any boat, the weight of all the additions should be considered lest the boat become unbearably slow....and possibly dangerous.

I'd concentrate on the rig, chainplates and engine above all else. They need to be perfect.


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## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

while doing the interior stowage and access to it would be my top priority after structural
most production boats have poor stowage and lots of dead space
also for bulkheads a honeycomb core built well would make a good light solid and rot proof bulkhead


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## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

aloof said:


> I'm not so sure about the wisdom of changing the ta big design in any big way.


Sorry, the what? I don't follow.


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## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

aloof said:


> I'd concentrate on the rig, chainplates and engine above all else. They need to be perfect.


Good advice. Always a safe bet.


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## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

Tbone said:


> Sorry, the what? I don't follow.


i think that was meant to say tabbing design


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Heh. Yeah, big typo. I hesitate to change the basic design of boats that were created by experienced designers *and* have withstood the test of time. The water damage did some harm. I'd repair with comparable materials and layup schedules. The tabbing is the way it is for a reason.

Bill is right about the stowage. I think it is better to have big open areas rather than numerous little lockers. Little clever lockers don't hold much. Consider removing furniture rather than adding more.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Chainplates, mast step, bulkheads, rudder stock support and structural floors would be my basic list.
Sorry that is two more than requested but the extra two are important.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

A good place to start thinking about mods to make a small boat as ocean proof as possible would be Roger Taylor's modifications to Ming Ming II...good description in You Tube videos of seven stages of work, plus an hour long presentation in a separate video. Ming Ming, his previous boat, and Ming Ming II, are junk-rigged, and that may not be your cup of tea, but his other mods make them bullet proof.

Of course, they are designed for being at sea, and not for live aboard life.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

A good while back a friend of mine had a Columbia 29 MKII . He and his girlfriend (later wife) did some cruising on it , Ca. to Mx. SoCal to Catalina, always anchoring . After the cruising ie.(married, 2 kids) he did exactly what you plan . Floors , stringers, beef it up every where possible. He told me that under heavy sailing the sides of the hull would collapse and vibrate . He wasn't living aboard and he liked the cabin lay out so he didn't change that but he did apply his considerable wood working skills to the cabin and it turned out quite impressive . He even put in a new head liner , later he told me that job really tested his limits . On deck he constructed a beautiful cap rail and had the whole boat LP'ed , A really nice white and light blue accents . Also pulled the mast , painted that and re rigged it , new winches & windlass . Well after all that he was out of steam and money . The only thing he had left to do was to re power, he didn't and paid for that .


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Probably goes without saying, but I'd replace all through-hulls as it would be much easier at this stage.

Thru-Hull Fittings, Groco, Rule, Marine Through Hulls

doo


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## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

I like what I'm hearing so far. 

Aloof, I agree with most of your thoughts, except the tabbing. Olin Stephens designed this boat, and I can't imagine he would specify such meager tabbing. The bulkheads of these boats are known to pop loose in rough conditions. The poor tabbing doesn't seem to be a design element, but more of a flaw in craftsmanship from the builder. I'm over tabbing the bulkheads (mainly the main cabin bulkhead since it ties into the compression post, which has also been substantially beefed up), and I can't think of a problem that could arise from over tabbing. But I agree with everything else. I know a fiberglass boat is designed to flex a bit, and if you don't allow it to, it will want to crack instead. I'm trying to find a happy medium between stiffening enough and too much.

Good suggestions from everyone so far. What else?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Look for a thread on restoring an Islander 36 in paradise. Started by Christian Hess. Would have lots of good info for you. I think Mr Perry's advice is good as far as priorities. I would not modify the cabin layout as on small boats their are compromises to make and the standard one likely deals with them in time tested manner. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

"I know a fiberglass boat is designed to flex a bit, and if you don't allow it to, it will want to crack instead."

Boy, you learn something everyday.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Thanks Bob. More weight coming from you. I'd have just sounded like a donkey if I said it.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

R/R the wire on your steering quadrant. A good manual bilge pump. Fuse on your positive battery cables.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Port lights and hatches. Not sure what you've got, but lots of production boats skimp here, offshore you want that stuff to stay in place.

Good luck with your project!


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

At this point you are probably not concerned with resale value, but I think it is worth mentioning. I am in the process of looking for my next boat. I see a lot of boats that people have extensively modified. They are very proud of all of the modifications. They are convinced that the things they changed needed to be changed, and that they were just making the boat better.

Fine. That's their opinion, and perhaps FOR THEM the boat is, in fact, "better." Most of the time, though, not for me. With very few exceptions, the highly modified boat is not--TO ME--worth more than an unmodified boat. In fact, most of the time it is worth less, because I am going to have to undo many of those modifications. Not to mention the fact that judging the quality of work done on the modifications can sometimes be quite difficult. You may be quite confident in your skills and your ability to make these changes in the "right way," but I don't know you and didn't watch you do the work. So as far as I know you are a fat-fingered hack who used the cheapest materials you could find and cut every corner that you could.

This is not meant to discourage you from extensively modifying your boat. Just to say that, come the time you decide to sell it, don't for a minute imagine that you are going to get any of your money back from all of these changes. In fact, you may very well have to sell your boat for LESS than an unmodified one, despite the fact that you believe you have made it better.

Good luck.

EDIT: Oh yeah. And the one change that I see constantly, and that drives me absolutely crazy? Some guy decided that his 16,000 lbs. sailboat was underpowered with a 40 hp motor, and so he installed a 120 Hp, 1,000 lbs. diesel into it. He's very proud of the fact that you can almost water-ski behind it, and now thinks it should be worth $20,000 more than other examples with the "wimpy," standard sized motor. ARGGHHHH!


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

To that end, keep fastidious records, keep receipts and take lots of photos of the ongoing work.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I don't have any input with regard to strengthening of the hull, rig, etc., as that's mostly a matter of doing everything by the book. 

When it comes to interior comfort, there's probably a lot you can do to make it suit your needs. Provided you have a good understanding of your needs. The manufacturers have long had a tendency to design their interiors for the boat show, which resulted in things like narrow settees, and heads that are supposedly showers too, but are littered with varnished wood. 

Do you want a good shower on the boat? We heat a kettle of water to a boil, and then add that water to a bucket pre filled with a measured amount of room temp water. The result is a couple gallons of perfect temperature shower water. We take the bucket to the cockpit where we suspend a sunbrella phone-booth-ish tent from the boom and pump the water over ourselves with a foot pump. Great shower, and the perfect place for water to drain away. No water heater needed. 

If I wanted a boat the size of yours to have a shower in the head, I'd design the head to be ALL fiberglass and/or plastics, including the door, and make it as easy to clean as any fiberglass shower stall. And VENTILATE it. 

YMMV, but IMHO nav stations are a total waste of space on any boat under 50 feet. Or 70. I can spread a chart out just fine on the saloon table. That's IF I even use a chart. 

Storage, storage, storage. 
My Catalina 28 has room under the settees (NARROW settees), but it's difficult to access. You have to un-Velcro the cushions and lift a wooden panel every time you want something. MUCH better to have the cushion sit on a hinged piece of plywood so it all just lifts up like a trunk lid. 

For our style of sailing (day sailing and occasional 2 to 10 day trips on the Great Lakes), we find a porta potty is preferable to a holding tank system. The space where the holding tank used to be is now used for storage.

On our boat, there's a perfect place to put a $150 window air conditioner. We just took out the water heater and put the window unit in its place. Condensation drains to the bilge and hot air exits through a hatch in the cockpit. It's an arrangement probably unique to our boat, but the point is that for us, hot water onboard is a novelty, while cool dry air in the cabin makes life worth living when we're in a slip where we can't direct the prevailing wind into our cabin. So, consider the trade-offs you might make for your own needs/preferences. 

Our Catalina 28 came with a nice big dining table. The table always takes up space in the cabin, even though we only use it when we're eating. We took it out, and now the cabin is much easer to move around in and get to the settees and the storage space under them. We have a fold-up table attached to the binnacle in the cockpit. 

That galley's gotta be done right. On our 28, storage is scarce and difficult to access. We just deal with it. We have one pan for our cooking because there's simply no place to put any more. The sink is pathetic. Remember what I said about the boat show?....these boats come with a diminutive/useless nav stations AND a galley sink suitable for Ken and Barbie. Why not ditch the nav station and have a big sink? People HAVE to wash dishes, so the bigger the better when it comes to sinks. 

And, do you really need a sink in the head? They're usually pretty useless because they're small and they're positioned in a tight corner. Ever tried to wash your face in one....or shave? Ugh. Why not just use the galley sink where you actually have room? 

Your tool boxes are definitely priority items that need to be stored where they are EASILY accessed. I don't like anything getting in the way of making a fix or an adjustment. 

Because interiors tend to be built for the boat show, it pays to think outside of the box as you create space you can live with. When I modify, resale is always in the back of my mind, so there's a balancing act between function for me, and something a buyer will appreciate.


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## Tbone (Apr 3, 2015)

denverd0n said:


> At this point you are probably not concerned with resale value, but I think it is worth mentioning. I am in the process of looking for my next boat. I see a lot of boats that people have extensively modified. They are very proud of all of the modifications. They are convinced that the things they changed needed to be changed, and that they were just making the boat better.
> 
> Fine. That's their opinion, and perhaps FOR THEM the boat is, in fact, "better." Most of the time, though, not for me. With very few exceptions, the highly modified boat is not--TO ME--worth more than an unmodified boat. In fact, most of the time it is worth less, because I am going to have to undo many of those modifications. Not to mention the fact that judging the quality of work done on the modifications can sometimes be quite difficult. You may be quite confident in your skills and your ability to make these changes in the "right way," but I don't know you and didn't watch you do the work. So as far as I know you are a fat-fingered hack who used the cheapest materials you could find and cut every corner that you could.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on all that. True, I'm not worried about resale value right now. I have eliminated the V berth on this boat, and considered the pros and cons of other modifications that I've done for months before actually doing them. I know the boat won't sell for the same price necessarily, and that without a V berth, it is much less marketable. I'm ok with that. I really don't have a lot of money into this boat so far, but I would expect for it to sell for a little less than a good example of the same boat without all the mods. You're right about someone else looking for a boat and not really wanting someone else's perfect boat. But I'm building this boat for me, and in the end, I'll know exactly what I have. I like small boats and the ease of handling them. I don't picture myself wanting a larger boat very soon.

And about the motor... yeah that's stupid. That guy just spent a crap ton of money and tripled his fuel cost. Sailboats were never meant to be power boats. Actually, I've seen about a 120hp outboard on the back of a 32ft or so sailboat, of course with a very heavily modified transom. Basically, his swim platform had this other heavy duty platform coming off it, with the engine attached. Looked ridiculous. Some people I guess don't understand hull shape and that a displacement hull will never plane. Oh well. He's probably happy with it.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Don't forget to get new standing rigging to attach to the new chainplates.
I went braindead with the new-to-me boat and forgot to replace the pressure water in the sinks with foot pumps, and to also install saltwater to the galley sink.
I'll have to do that at the next haulout.
In addition to the shower in the head I usually keep one fresh water pressure hose at the transom for washing down humans after swimming.
As general principle, while you are rebuilding her always think about making her simple to sail as well as strong.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Siamese said:


> Storage, storage, storage.
> My Catalina 28 has room under the settees (NARROW settees), but it's difficult to access. You have to un-Velcro the cushions and lift a wooden panel every time you want something. MUCH better to have the cushion sit on a hinged piece of plywood so it all just lifts up like a trunk lid.


Couldn't agree more&#8230;..easy access to secure storage is a must. Secure, hinged access is a great way to go, takes a little more effort up front, but well worth it in the long hall. If there was only 1 place to store provisions, tools, parts, etc&#8230; a lift board or two would not be bad, but when you are looking at over a dozen different storage spots of varying sizes easy, secure access will make your life much more pleasant!


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

My list of three mods?

More/bigger vents/hatches 
More/better cabinetry, storage 
better access to aft bilge to use space below to better advantage.

Plans afoot for all three. Since I need to re-lam the cabin top anyway; a large-ish curb will be built in for future ventilatinhatch. Plenty of drawings and mental storage of changes to the galley and back-of-settee stowage. Hardly never use the fwd facing seating astern. in 'pit.. Might just build it up to coaming height and add an entry hatch, ala` small aft "cabin" as a. *garage*


I'd add better/wet/hanging locker stowage, biggger hhead cabinet, larger/more accessable V-berth,etc..but yya asked for. only three


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