# Circumnavigation advice for complete novices



## fando (Oct 10, 2009)

Hi

We are completely new to this site and in reality to sailing. Our plan is to learn to sail, buy a yacht and sail around the world for a few years. We are hoping to start this adventure in around 6 months and so we are now seeking as much advise as possible. We have sailed on yachts before and one of us crewed a long passage but overall we really are quite clueless so please bear with us. 

We believe that an appropriate CIRCUM yacht to be handled by a young inexperienced couple would be around 40ft - 45ft and after some back and forth have decided its probably best to learn, provision and set sail from the UK (as opposed to NZ being our other option). Any thoughts on UK v NZ. Based on our estimated monthly running costs (being USD 4k PCM - does this sound reasonable?), we will have around USD 225k for the yacht itself (including fit out, insurance, provision etc). 

Basically through looking at pictures and reading articles we are trying to work out what type of yacht is best for us given our budget. Our latest preference is something like a Sun Odyssey 42DS (2006), but we are really keen to hear comments as to the suitabilty of this yacht compared to other Jeanneaus. We like the light the DS provides and also the 2 cabin version. We have also looked a few Benneteaus, Hunters, Dufours, i.e. production line boats. Would appreciate any feedback from people who don't just have to rely on pictures. 

Naturally we need to learn to sail before we cast off and so we have been looking at various courses. The 14 week yachtmater course looks pretty comprehensive but reasonably costly at around GBP 7K + per head. Should we buy our own yacht and then try and find an expert who would be willing to teach us over a couple of months or would a structured course be best. Either way any info on both options appreciated.

Many thanks for your time.

FANDO


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

phew!!! Somebody please try to answer these naivxxx nice folks. I would suggest, to start. just build an entire boat.Thata way you can repair most things. Also, You might consider chartering a circumnavigation. OK guys take it from there.

"It is better to be a has been than a never has been"


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## kairetu (Oct 6, 2009)

It's good that you're asking. It's good that you know that you don't know. But a few observations: buying a boat for long distance cruising is about how the boat handles weather and water and how practical it is for stowage, fuel range, etc. It's not about liking the light or the interior. That's marina stuff. I have met a few people who have fast tracked a yachtmaster and I wouldn't trust them on a watch alone. 14 weeks to yachtmaster is far too short. I guess my own view is that there is no short cut. Sailing can be dangerous and suitable preparation is vital. But knowing that you don't know is a good first step.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

You are asking the right questions... my advice would be to not set a timetable. And don't be in a rush. Spending 3-5 years learning to sail, learning whichever boat you buy, cruising coastally will help prepare you for offshore, but even then there will be things you maybe never thought about til you're out there.

You do have a reasonable budget, I think, but the mainstream production boats you mention are not likely to be on anyone's "prime offshore/bluewater boats" (btw here's a thread that lists such favoured designs)

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...fshore-cruising-boat-list-january-2008-a.html

. I'd start looking at a Passport 40/44/47 and similar boats if I were you. Also wouldn't put 100% stock in any 'fast tracked' courses.. by all means study navigation, radio, lifesaving etc but there's nothing like experience and having some experience before taking these courses will help you get a better perspective and more out of them.

Good luck.


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

I'm sorry, I can't help butting in again , but Fando's dream got my juices going. With that kind of $, and I were 40 years younger, I would buy me a couple acres in the country, fairly close to some funky boat yards in a nice climate. Hype my beautiful wife, buy an old Airstream, put up a 50'x60' air conditioned (geothermal) metal building. Put the Airstream inside, live a life similar space wise as a boat. I would buy a blue water fibreglass hull of my dreams and go to work. Make sure the work area dust is completely vented to the outside.
Good cheer and good luck, what fun!

"It is better to be a has been than a never has been."


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## fando (Oct 10, 2009)

Thanks for your comments. Safety is naturally the number one priority, for which we will endeavour to minimise the inherent risk that comes with sailing. Any significant passage crossings we will enlist qualified friends to assist in skippering the yacht. Interesting that you believe the yachtmaster fast track courses add limited value. 

Captain Fred - as to building an entire yacht, although I appreciate your point about being in a better position to repair it, given my skills, I believe I would be better off buying one built by experts.

All advice appreciated.

FANDO


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

FANDO, your plans are admirable, but naive. It takes a year to learn how to sail and five years to become a sailor.
Long before you head out into the blue you have to know your boat inside and out and know how to fix everything that can go wrong - because it will. You can go to all the sailing classes you can afford, but what are you going to do the first time you are caught in a major storm and your dream boat is knocked down to spreaders in the water and rounds back up with the main torn and hung up in the spreaders, cockpit filled with water and draining slowly, 1/2 of the water coursing down your companionway steps and across your cabin sole filling your bilge and soaking all the stuff that got dumped onto the sole while you were sideways?
Don't think that can happen? It can and does. Go to the BFS thread and read some of the disasters - many in protected waters. It's all part of the sailing dream.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Complete Novice and Circumnavigate do not belong in the same sentence;
It takes many years of experience to be able to do and very few actually accomplish.
Buy your boat and go sailing for a _long_ time, and than decide if you are up to it.


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## fando (Oct 10, 2009)

We do plan to sail around the MED for a year + before making an ocean crossing to the the Caribbean (for which we would invite / pay for a qualifed skipper to lead the way). Also one of us has crossed the Pacific before albeit part of a 4 man crew. Even given our slow and ocean accompanied passages - are our plans still deemed unrealistic and foolhardy? Thanks


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## n0w0rries (May 17, 2009)

Long time boater, first time sailor. I bought a 27' Catalina to learn on. I think you should change your goal. Plan on sailing around the med or wherever for a year. Buy a boat for that purpose--instead of circumnavigating. 

Then after your done with local cruising, consider circumnavigating. You'll know if you can handle it, and you'll know what you like and don't like in a boat. They're all different. When you get time on the water you will figure out what features you like, and which ones you don't. You can sell your local cruiser and upgrade to something more suitable for heavy weather, but you'll have a much better time identifying features that are really important to you.

No amount of googling or classroom teaching can replace time on the water.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Sailing around the world falls into the grand idea class.
Okay you can, but in translating the idea to the fact, I tend to look at the steps on takes. Many say I know nothing about it so tell me all I need to know. Maybe doing a little research first might help - there are even books.
I don't think you are quite that bad.
1. The fast track course will teach you a lot. However learning with a crew and instructor doesn't give you experience. Even getting out of a dock is not always easy, let alone going through heavy weather shorthanded.
2. Being a crew on a passage doesn't count for much. For a start there is the prep, planning, other crew, and lack of responsibility. The ocean passages may be less difficult than coastal, particularly on chosen routes and times.
3. It sounds like a year in the med is to build experience. Okay but I suspect you would not be heading there both for weather windows and getting off the ground til next summer, then heading off again around December.
4. From NZ you head off in around May. In either case it would be impossible or very difficult, to do your course, find a boat, bring it up to scratch, have familiarisation and shakedowns in that time. Add a year.
5 You could buy in the US. Do you want to do a circumnavigation, a half, or cruise a while? Where do you want to go and why? One couple's interest in landfalls appeared to be booze and McDonalds.
6. The boats don't really sound like blue water cruisers. 36-38 is probably adequate for a couple. 
7. You can start on a plan, building some seatime, and testing things and yourselves out. Yes it can be done, but quite a few abandon the dream after a month or so and their first passage.


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## Schmacko (Sep 4, 2009)

*Get Out There*

As a relatively new poster to this forum I would like to answer your question by making some "one liner" observations of life.
Can you navigate safely....I learnt before GPS in aviation using DR, electronic and then GPS....practice until you can position yourself at any time of the day or night.
Systems....learn your boats systems elec, mech, rigging, structure etc. a lot of boat owners have no idea how their boat's systems work.
Seamanship....learn it, practice it....get out on the water and see how stupid some boat owners can be.
Charts....carry them always and study them before you sail, create a "navigation worksheet" no matter how short or long the distance it is good practice for the longer trips. How often do you read about experienced people hitting things.
Did I say get out there and do it.
Sailing....It's simple stuff, learn your sails, how they work, shapes, reefing, reefing and reefing....listen and feel your boat it alone will tell you how it likes your sail plan. There are a lot of people out there who have no idea, but equally there a lot who are extremely good at it.
Engines and charging systems....study and learn to repair them....pamper them....they are extremely important to your survival and more importantly to your ability to get out of situations that you have created.
Did I say get out there and do it.
Weather....study it learn how to interperate it, weather can cause you a lot of grief, sometimes its your own fault sometimes its not.
Boat....learn your boat, when its happy and when its not, have sympathy with your boat, understand how it works....you don't need to build it to know how to repair it....but know how it works
Communicate....learn how to use your radios they can save your life.
Did I say get out there and do it.
There are a lot of people who will tell you how hard things are whether it be developing personal skills, flying, working or sailing....but I believe in some basic principles of life an one of them is "Never tell a digger how to do it, always show him"....rehearse lifes events....(a digger is an Australian soldier)
Talk to the boat owners down at the marina see what boats they are happy with....see what boats are currently sailing the open waters and that will narrow your search down.
Take small steps to start off with, get out there and make mistakes, find out where your own personal limits are and then by doing this you will become a proficient sailor.
From both flying and sailing some of the most stupid things I have seen have been from so called experienced operators.
"Have sympathy or be in harmony with the machine that you are operating"
Self preservation will generally tell you where the limits are.

Go and do it

Schmacko meekly retires to do the dishes.


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## soulfinger (Aug 21, 2008)

A lot of nice discussion, but I just want to applaud you for having the resources and the will to go for it. Cruising the med for a year will be more adventure that most people could ever even dream of. At the end of that, if you still thirst for more adventure, you'll know what to do.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I don't have the kind of experience to give advice on something like circumnavigation, but I have enough experience that I can write my own opinion and pretend it is important. 

From my own experience so far the hard thing is changing the way you live which takes a lot of time, effort, and commitment. When you first start thinking about living on a boat for long periods of time, it seems easy enough, get some solar panels instead of grid power, use a dinghy instead of a car, cook instead of eating out, etc, but the devil is in the details. It is all of the very personal habits such as washing clothing, cooking enough food to keep your strength up, etc, that you have to change that are so challenging.

I'll give you a good example - this year I went without air conditioning. Seems like a simple thing, right ? If you have been living with air conditioning for most of your life let me tell you just what a PITA living without it can be. During the hottest parts of the year your motivation drops to about zero, especially for tasks that require a lot of concentration and focus, it is just very hard to focus with beads of sweat dripping into your eyes and down your neck, and the temperature is like that sometimes during the summer. Your entire schedule changes, you start doing more in the early morning and evening and do less during the hottest parts of the day. You start inventing new ways to stay cool, using solar power and lots of fans for example. This one simple little thing, no air conditioning, can change your whole life around, and that is just one little thing that most people have to change in their lives to live on a boat for extended periods of time.

Buying the boat and "gearing up" just doesn't get it done.


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## Sandflea (Aug 19, 2009)

Truth is, alot of people here tend to freak out at the word "circumnavigate", especially when people like you and me say it before or after we tell of our lack of sailing experience. Honestly, they should. 
I have the same dream when I retire from the Army in 5 years, but it's not like I'm just gonna buy a sloop, fill it with bottled water and beef jerky and cross the Atlantic 2 weeks after I take my uniform off. I have 5 years to plan and budget, then I will attend ASA 101 through 108 courses and then I will buy a boat. At that point I will start gaining experience by refitting and repairing her myself, then take her out a little further each day or week.
The point I am rambling to is, awesome dream you have, baby step it into reality. Forget the grand time line.
The only time line I am sticking to is my separation from the Army and the completion of the ASA courses. After that it will take however long to know my boat, be skillful and prepared enough to tackle circumnavigating our little blue ball.
Until then I can live the dream by watching this guy...
Bigoceans | Tiny Boat
Keep your dream alive and don't rush into it, let it happen naturally by doing all the not so little stuff that leads to it. Thats the real adventure. My 2 cents anyway...

Take Care!
Ben


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Fando has a dream and he is approaching it in a responsible manner. Fast track courses serve a valuable purpose and will give Fando an excellent base from which to learn and put him way ahead of 95% of the people I meet on their circumnavigations and you meet a lot in Trinidad and Grenada waiting out hurricane season.

As long as he gets good advise and not insulting pontification as he got from a few posters he will work things out. I know that from another forum he got good advise about large windows and now knows that they are not a good idea on cruising boats.

Phil


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

If you have a dream and the more knowledge you acquire about it, leads to deeper longing & love for your dream, then my friend, you are on your way. Don't be discouraged by others opinions. The joy you will have someday looking back is immeasurable. You are a single unique human being. Some of us are always wannabees, gonnabees or neverwillbees, well I'm one of those hasbees and at 75, very happy for it.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Sandflea, if you are ever in Miami you can get free sailing and 2 days of free lessons. Military Outreach.

Or check CGSC Message Board "Military outreach goes international" We call all visiting military ships and offer free sailing to the crew.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Yorksailor said:


> As long as he gets good advise and not insulting pontification as he got from a few posters he will work things out.


I think you're being too sensitive. When I read this comment I thought, what is this guy/gal talking about ? So I went back and I only see one post that could be considered discouraging, and that poster came back with two other posts to clarify his position. Overall most of the posts in this thread just say that the original poster should consider getting very familiar with the boat's systems before setting out, gain experience on more localized trips before taking on the world, and my own post that focused on making changes such as washing clothing on board instead of focusing on the seamanship aspects of the discussion. I just don't see what the big deal is, or why you felt you needed to chastise everybody in the thread. Personally I like that people speak their mind in this forum, it is what I always liked about it, I'd be disappointed if it turned into a Hello Kitty forum where all the ladies just come out and say oh wow that's great you're a novice and you're going to sail around the world, you go! You can do it!!! We have faith in you!! The world has too much of that bullsh#t in it already, empty encouragement like that doesn't help anything.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

Just follow your dreams Fando and take all the "advice" that you get with a hugh grain of salt. Even mine.  

I consider the weak link in any sail to be the human being rather than the boat. However, I would want a boat which will heave to under severe weather and not require active sailing. I'm not sure as to how a fin keel will heave to so that type of boat would not be on my list. I have owned my Tayana 37 for over 20 years now and have sailed in some pretty severe weather and anchored out during a Cat 1 hurricane. Not something that I would do again even though even if the anchor failed the shoreline was mud and not rock so there was no danger to life. Another consideration is that wind does not sink boats but waves can. If you read about rogue waves that may give you some pause, but again the challenge of the situation is what it may be about for you. I lived aboard my boat for most of the twenty years and I would routinely take the boat out for day sails etc while most liveaboards would stay at dock for most if not all of the season. Even some world cruisers who stayed at the dock during the summer would not go out on beautiful days. One fellow from NZ said that he hardly ever touched the wheel when on a passage and left the sailing to the autopilot. 

It's what you feel comfortable with and you never ever know it all. Many people have sailed oceans with far less experience than you and have survived. Look at some of the kids that have done it and not to mention some of the people in by gone days without auto pilots and GPS and engines. It's the challenge that makes life interesting.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that you'd probably be far better off getting a boat in the 35-40' range, rather than the 40-45' range, as it will likely be in much better shape and much less costly to outfit for a circumnavigation. 

Also, the boat should be setup and sized so that the weakest crew member can single-hand the boat, since that is effectively what most couples sailing a boat will be doing most of the time. 

I'd also point out that getting the boat at least a year before your planned departure is a good idea... since you need some time to outfit the boat and learn its particular nature. Work your way up from doing daysailing, to short coastal passages, to longer coastal passages, to short bluewater trips, to ocean crossings. This gives you a lot of experience with the boat as well as lets you shake down the gear properly before getting too far from where getting supplies and making repairs is simple to do.


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## Sandflea (Aug 19, 2009)

Yorksailor said:


> Sandflea, if you are ever in Miami you can get free sailing and 2 days of free lessons. Military Outreach.
> 
> Or check CGSC Message Board "Military outreach goes international" We call all visiting military ships and offer free sailing to the crew.


Thanks for the info, when I get back stateside I will definitely look into it.

Take Care!

Ben


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One other thing—you should learn as much about all the systems on your boat, since, once you're out there, if you can't fix it....no one else will...


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## bb74 (Feb 11, 2009)

I won't bother getting into the "know your boat" debate as it's been endlessly rehashed on this site.

On the circumnavigation thing... well, forget about "curcumnavigating" per se. You will likely find that you will have much more fun and enjoyment in the places you end up than during the passageway to get there. Get a boat that is good for the 2-3 days passageways and great for the coastal cruising and location anchoring, mooring, slips, etc. Sure you may do a transat or a transpac but in reality on a 1 year "trip" you're only looking at less than 5% of your time in true blue water. The vast majority is coastal cruising to enjoy local cultures, see people, and visit.

Head out for a couple of months and by the time you're on your 3rd round of laundry duty and looking for a marina to take a nice hot shower and eat food cooked in more than one pot you'll know pretty quickly if it's for you and then you can decide what's next.

I find a lot of the debate on "blue water" boats to be a bit ridiculous because at least half of the "aura" around these boats is built up on the notion that century old designs (full keels, skegs, narrow beam, rounded sterns, etc, etc) somehow make the boat better for the 95% of the true sailing you'll end up doing in the real world - misplaced nostalgia if you ask me...

As for Jeanneau, Beneteau, Dufour etc, they are all OK coastal cruisers that can easly do a transat under the right curmstances (crew, weather, etc). I haven't sailed the 42 but have the SO 35, Firsts, and the new Dufour models extensively in the Med in all conditions. They wouldn't be my first choice unless I was strapped on the budget side because the craftsmanship (woodwork, fittings, deck gear, etc) tends to be on the light side and on a more personal note I don't like the "feel" of the SO or Dufours on a heel - not smooth like the first classes or a more "race bred" boat like an X or J and not nearly speedy enough. In the Med you have a 48hr weather window at best and I want a boat that can get me those 140 nm (about the biggest distance destination to destination for most of the hopping in the Med) within that window and with time to spare. The 37 and less Jeanneau and Dufours aren't fast enough and overpower far to quicly with far too much leeway when the sea build up and you need to point into the wind. (From experience)

Take it with a grain of salt and for the record the boat I'm looking at for a similar Med trip is a Pogo 1050 so maybe I'm in the minority.?....


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bb74 said:


> On the circumnavigation thing... well, forget about "curcumnavigating" per se. You will likely find that you will have much more fun and enjoyment in the places you end up than during the passageway to get there. Get a boat that is good for the 2-3 days passageways and great for the coastal cruising and location anchoring, mooring, slips, etc. Sure you may do a transat or a transpac but in reality on a 1 year "trip" you're only looking at less than 5% of your time in true blue water. The vast majority is coastal cruising to enjoy local cultures, see people, and visit.


Good point bb.


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## AlexAlley (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi Fando

Great plan, but seriously before you go try and get as much experience as possible as well as the usual qualifications such as Ocean Yachtmaster.
45' in my mind would be the absolute minimum (I'm about to race around the world 2 handed in a 40 footer and believe me, in the Southern ocean you feel very small indeed - see my other post - Charity Event)
UK v NZ = UK definately. it gives you the chance to learn more about the boat in the Atlantic. leaving from NZ then you could be in pretty desolate and hostile waters quite quickly. Not saying the Atlantic is a breeze!!! it's not.

not sure how far south you are intending to go but it gets pretty cold down there!!

Good Luck


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

*Actually I was going to say exactly the opposite*



AlexAlley said:


> UK v NZ = UK definately. it gives you the chance to learn more about the boat in the Atlantic. leaving from NZ then you could be in pretty desolate and hostile waters quite quickly. Not saying the Atlantic is a breeze!!! it's not.


If you start your sailing in Auckland, firstly you have a huge playground of absolutely safe waters in which to get started. You also have several benign coastal voyages and offshore islands close by to visit and explore.

When you are ready to do a longish trip, the islands of Fiji, Tonga and Vanuatu are on your doorstep from a cruising perspective (8 days from Auckland). If you think that's too long then you're not ready to leave anyway. Dozens of local boats do these trips every year and there is a series of popular rallies you could join to gain confidence whilst not being alone.

When you are ready to go long distance voyaging, a trip via New Caledonia and the Coral Sea to Australia and the Great Barrier Reef and onwards from there. You first major ocean crossing would be the Indian Ocean on the Trades from Christmas Islands or Cocos Keeling or even better you could head directly from Darwin to Indonesia (Bali) and then to Malaysia and Thailand, the list goes on and on.

Hostile waters? No, I don't think so. Maybe a keener eye on weather windows because the weather is a little switchy at certain times of the year. The reputation for hostility is born largely in those of us that choose to do the islands in weather periods that are not necassarily that good.

And, should all else fail and life turns to custard, you also have one of the best SAR setups in the world with New Zealand and Australia at your service.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'd tend to side with Andre re starting point. Indeed even starting out from Oz would seem preferable to the UK. In either Oz or NZ you have plenty of excellent cruising grounds to play in while you build up a bit of experience, indeed you could well spend some years in local waters before heading far offshore. 

Only serious negative to Oz or NZ is the price you will pay for the boat and the somewhat limited selection compared to Europe and/or America. That could well be a deciding factor. 

As to the choice of boat I do wonder whether people get carried away with this topic. OK, so if you want to circumnavigate via the Capes and all that then the modern production cruiser might not be suitable but given the number of the so called plastic fantastics that have circled the globe they simply cannot be dismissed out of hand.

An interesting point arising from another thread. Sequitor has just set off on her voyage and Michael was saying that they intend heading down as far as Antarctica. He noted that three to five day weather windows are relatively common. His boat (a Hunter) should be able to make the hop in that time whilst a heavier more traditional design might not.

I know these threads often degenerate in to the old heavy and slow v light and fast brawls but you cannot help but think that many of the arguments once considered holy writ are simply no longer applicable. Big windows is one. There is simply no reason why glass of the correct type and of sufficient thickness should not be as strong as the surrounding fibreglass or timber. Now that is not to say that a Junneau 43DS is the right choice to make but they have circumnavigated and I don't hear of many (if any) sinking in the process.

My main argument with Fando comes down to the circumnavigation obsession. By all means plan to set out and go cruising. Great idea, but why at this stage of the game commit yourself to a circumnavigation ?


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Nancy from Blackwattle said that there are cruisers and delivery people. Delivery people are often circumnavigators on a time limit.

Off topic, sorry, but some older designs can blitz the tupperware. Van destadts for example. We would be a long time ahead of bigger tupperware and bigger multis (who flew kites as well). Days in fact on a shortish passage. 3/4 rigged and more than one hull can scare the *&^& out of you and they reef down, sail too conservatively. Some IOR/racing designs should be out planing, not reefed down. Safer when flying eg macgregor 64 - but what cruising couple can maintain the energy levels required for that. 

I am not saying that I am anything but a beginner (and am always learning), but you want to cover a passage in as fast as possible - so get the yacht performing. Designs will come into this as well - wide transoms and thin bolt on keels versus long keeled cods head/mackeral tail and everything in between.

Its a lost profession to read the old pilots, plot a course for comfort, safety and speed.

You can spend a lifetime cruising Oz and still be amazed. NZ would be the same and as Oma said - good services for whatever is needed/ rallies etc.


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

I have made several suggestions about circumnavigating our little blue marble and here is my next one. Take note it won't be my best one either. Some old sailor told me about 60 years ago, that if he were to sail around the world in his old wood ketch, he would do it in comfort and carefree. He would simply contract with a small steamship line and have his ketch cradled on deck. When he arrived at the Greek Isles, Pago Pago, China, up the Rhine - wherever, he would would be set off on his own on his ketch for however long he wanted, then by contacting another ship of the same line he would be off again, dining at the Captains table. He was no slacker; a fair maiden from each port would accompany him on the next leg of his real world journey. That old sailor took the fear and hassle out of crossing oceans and gave me someting solid to dream about when I was only a kid.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

tdw said:


> My main argument with Fando comes down to the circumnavigation obsession. By all means plan to set out and go cruising. Great idea, but why at this stage of the game commit yourself to a circumnavigation ?


Yep, I'd go with that sentiment as well. I often talk about my upcoming circumnav but that's really because I want to see a bigger part of the world and having done a few ocean crossings (at least one of them going the wrong way), I know how hard it is going 1/3 of the way round the globe and then coming back the way one went. Not for me.

But I come back to, let's call it Australasia. If one started off from New Zealand (in my view preferable to Aus simply because it's closer to the South Pacific) you could cruise for several years in the surrounding areas and never have to cross an ocean. The longest leg would be NZ to Fiji about 1100nm. From there it's all short hops for a few years.

If you're hell bent on a round the world trip, then my recommendation is plan it in small sectors without committing time or resource any further than the next sector.

For example, my first sector will be the trip I outlined in my earlier post: NZ, Vanuatu, New Cal, Aus, Bali, Malaysia, Thailand and then we'll see from there. Maybe we go on, maybe we go home.

As I live in NZ, it's easy to start again whenever the bug bites. But if we go on from Thailand the trip reaches critical mass and then we go all the way around.


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

I love the tropics. I love the unique cultures, the beauty, warmth, food, sand, clear water, diversity the beautiful women, wildlife, etc. But by golly that is only small bit of our world. How about the classic music scene of Venice, Vienna or any city that can be reached by navigable river or canal I fantasize about up the Danube, down the Rhine. With a short haul of my boat in between. I know the perfect sailing vessel to fulfill my personal dreams. However, seriously this boat is my dream boat and possibly would not be appropiate for anyone else.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Capt.Fred said:


> I love the tropics. I love the unique cultures, the beauty, warmth, food, sand, clear water, diversity the beautiful women, wildlife, etc. But by golly that is only small bit of our world. How about the classic music scene of Venice, Vienna or any city that can be reached by navigable river or canal I fantasize about up the Danube, down the Rhine. With a short haul of my boat in between. I know the perfect sailing vessel to fulfill my personal dreams. However, seriously this boat is my dream boat and possibly would not be appropiate for anyone else.


In now way would I knock Europe. I'd love to spend a couple of years cruising from Iberia to Scandinavia, British Isles included. Not so sure about the Med anymore though to arrive in Venice by boat would have to be quite a buzz.

Fred, have you ever heard of a boat called 'Yankee' ? Owned by Irving and Electa Johnson (sp ?) . Steel schooner (maybe ketch ?) , 50 odd feet, lifting keel and masts in tabernacles. She was my dream boat many years ago.

That said, the great thing about starting off in the tropics is the warmth. I agree with Andre that NZ is a better place to start than Oz but from Sydney you can rock hop up the coast all the way towards Cairns, then slide over through the Louisiades to the Solomons and New Caledonia before slippiing back to either Oz of Nz. As Andre has said max exposure is a thousand odd miles. That has to be easier on the crew than getting hammered by a big one in the Bay of Biscay. (note - making a northing along the NSW coast can be a bugger, head winds all the way.)

Look, I'm not being deliberately negative re the circumnavigation just trying to inject a note of realism. Its a wonderful thing to dream about and wouldn't we all love to say we had done it but it is not the be all and end all of cruising under sail.

Don't forget that the main reason the early voyagers went all the way round was that they had run away from Europe or America in order to experience the warmth of the tropics. They had to do a loop if they wanted to go home.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Based on the responses it appears i am not the only one who daydreams about circumnavigating some day.



fando said:


> given my skills, I believe I would be better off buying one built by experts. FANDO


This to me would be your biggest impediment to a cruise of any length. I have not spent more than a few days on a boat at a time but have read a lot of books about circumnavigations or attempts at it and, it seems more of the topics are about the gear breaking and fixing it enroute as much as the actual sailing. Try reading the "Cruise of the Snark" by Jack London.

Most long cruises or circumnavigations are preceded by 2-5 years of preparations of the boat and crew. You might get by with less but if you do not know how to fix your own boat be prepared to spend a lot of time in ports and most of your money on maintenance. I am paraphrasing here and my percentages may be off but "cruising is 1% cocktails in paradise, 1% terror and 98% maintenance.

The book I am currently reading ends up with the guy jumping off the back of his boat in the middle of the ocean because he could not figure out how to fix what was wrong with the boat. "The Last Strange Voyage of Donald Crowhurst". Don't let this happen to you.


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## Capt.Fred (Oct 17, 2004)

tdw, Yes, I remember reading about Yankee authored by Irving Johnson. The Yankee was a great boat for its time, but you must already know that steel boats rust both on the outside and insidiously on the inside. I remember there were more stories about Irving Johnson, but I've forgotten them. You folks out there wanna weep in your Pussers? During the 1st World War, just about every solid bronze yacht was melted down for the war effort, both American and European. Now they must have been some geat cruising boats. Does anyone know if there are any left? I'm still on the subject of circumnavigation, just wishing I were sitting in the trades on a bronze yacht.

"I can hear OK with my hearing aids and my dentures fit me fine!
I can see really good with my bifocles, but I sure do miss my mind."


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## fando (Oct 10, 2009)

I would like to thank you all for your time and effort in respect to our request for advice. The only consistent theme appeared to be the varying opinions, from questioning our intelligence through to simple encouragement, punctuated by genuine advice and offers.

As a result of the latter, we have decided to enrol on an 18 week Yachtmaster course in the UK, which will provide us 2,500 miles of additional sailing experience, together with much practical and theoretical advice. We appreciate that such a course will not render us 'sailors' in some of your salty eyes, but we believe it will provide us with sufficient experience to sail around the MED for 12 months, before contemplating our first ocean crossing. 

In respect to the 'best' yacht for us, the advice continues to vary enormously, from ancient mariners to the latest production line models. All I would add from our own perspective is that circumnavigation for us at least, means spending 95% of the time in sheltered waters, with only 5% in true blue water. During this 5% we will mitigate our exposure/risk through various means, which we will continue to evaluate and prepare for. No adventures are without risk and although we appreciate certain members concern, we all have different values and different appetites to risk and thus those that may consider us naïve and foolhardy, should realise that this is through their own eyes and certainly not ours. Of course if we sink, you will at least have the opportunity of the last post. 

We will have many more questions I’m sure and so in the meantime, thank you for your views and hopefully at some point we shall see you all at sea.

FANDO


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## kairetu (Oct 6, 2009)

Well done you. It would be good to keep in touch with your journey - if you are planning a blog would you consider sharing a link? I'm not sure if you've heard of Chay Blyth? In 1968, with no sailing experience, he competed in the Sunday Times Golden Globe Race, and finished somewhere around the Cape of Good Hope. I think he sailed a bilge keeler which might not be everyone's choice...


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Fando,
Let us know what boat you finally decide on, OK?


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## byr0n (Apr 6, 2009)

Fando,

The advice of many here is passed on from experience. I too have grand plans (circumnavigation, some legs single-handed, some with help). Preparation is key and practice,practice, practice as you did when learning cursive writing in school. Beyond that, I say do it.

I will however also add this advice to you as my 5 things you and each crew member should be able to handle alone before leaving sight of land.

1) Steer the boat without the helm (either lash it or if you can remove the rudder); do it running and reaching; how innovative are you?

2) go out in 30kn + rain, put up and take down each of your sails (well, not the spin) alone while jacklined;

3) Unplug the batteries, then chart and sail your boat with no electronics (maintain vhf and running lights if done at night) through a 40 mile passage. Sextant, and paper charts need to be understood. All electronics will fail so learn to perform independent of them

4) Practice sailing in confused seas regularly; normal seas, and moderate winds are the most boring parts of a passage, and can be learned very quickly but the ONE time you are in the s**t, you will be happy you know how to survive by working with the forces of nature.

5) Perform a mock evacuation of the vessel, with 1 person unresponsive. (everyone should deploy the liferaft, and move an unconscious person off a "pretend" sinking vessel) 

Your experienced skipper may well become all kinds of useless from any of a thousand ailments or injuries. Do not trust others when you can simply spend a little time learning and then be capable of doing it yourself.

As for an ideal vessel, well, 40 feet for 2 people should be max not min. Mostly protected waters? 5% in true blue? Not likely for a circumnavigation lasting less than 10 years.

I would think a full-keel with a swept forefoot, ketch-rigged with extra ground tackle to start (good plating etc). moderate displacement, and tight interior, as falling around in the 10'x10' cabins of many coastal cruisers really sucks in >15 foot seas. 

Watertight compartments throughout the vessel should be also be given good consideration. Independent freshwater systems, and storage. Lots of storage. (make your budget for a passage (food water etc), then add 40% so you pack for 14 days on a 10 day passage)

One last thing; Everyone should learn/know what all those weirdly-named things in the first-aid kit are for...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

All great advice, I really liked the list of things you should be able to do before you leave.



byr0n said:


> Watertight compartments throughout the vessel should be also be given good consideration. Independent freshwater systems, and storage. Lots of storage. (make your budget for a passage (food water etc), then add 40% so you pack for 14 days on a 10 day passage)


Regarding the amount of food on board, I take a slightly different approach to this in general. I follow the usual routine for emergency preparation and that is to store what you eat and eat what you store, but the "buffer" stays the same size no matter where I am. So ... if you normally eat canned beef w/ gravy then buy it, and store it, and the amount that you buy and store is the size of the "buffer". Yes you can store 10 days, or 14 days, or whatever, but it is all a lot easier if you just decide on some set amount from the beginning and make sure you have enough space for it. So say you decide you want your boat to have a range of such-and-such miles, and you decide that you want to be able to live on the boat w/o having to replenish stores for, whatever, 3 months lets say, then you just prepare for that and you always have 3 months of food. Good way to do that (I say from experience) is to take a little time to actually track the amount of food and water you consume in great detail, down to the twinkie, and then just expand that out into the future you figure out just how many twinkies you are going to need for 3 months. This helps you shop too because all you have to do is look at your inventory and figure out what it'll take to replenish your stores. Of course this doesn't work perfectly, sometimes you don't have access to the things you like, or you get sick of eating something and have to change your plans, or you get an especially good deal on something and end up with a year's worth of it, etc, but it is a good basic way to plan and to live. Basically the same thing byr0n is saying except instead of buying food for the leg of the passage you buy food for the amount of storage space you have.

Of course it is all more complicated than that in real life because of perishable foods, etc ...



> One last thing; Everyone should learn/know what all those weirdly-named things in the first-aid kit are for...


I was reading just last night about someone who had to use a regular needle and thread to sew up a wound, they said they'd try to never again be in that situation without the proper needles.


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## sid h (Mar 9, 2015)

i am going to buy a sailboat and take a year or three out i dont know how to sail and not much time to learn only 12 mths me and my other half will probably purchase in the med and start there, maybe greece still researching type of tub but thinking i may go further in the years to come ,would it to be more beneficial to just get one that is more capable or just a blue water cruiser cheers


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

A very different prospective - don't focus on the boat (yet.) Focus on your emotions and experience. When I decided to start full time cruising I spent a lot of time worrying about how to equip my boat. I also read a lot. I had been sailing for 45+ years, racing (which means you go with the conditions,) and was pretty confident about my abilities.

What I completely missed were the emotional impact. How do you feel about dealing with foreign cultures? Are you confident you can leave your boat at a yard in a third world country while you go home? Can you deal with local officials that see you as a rich person and source of revenue? Would you employ someone who doesn't speak English to repair some part of your boat where your knowledge is lacking? Are you patient? Can you tolerate being stuck in some anchorage for a couple of months waiting for a part from home? Will you miss out on shore excursions because you are unwilling to leave your boat unprotected? Can you deal with being cold and wet for days with no end in sight? Or, as I recently did, make 10 NM per day for 4 days in a row while waiting for wind? Just a few questions to get the juices flowing....

Sailing (and navigation, weather forecasting, radio usage) is a technical skill. Competence is not measured in years, its measured in knowledge. The more miles you put under your keel the better you will become. The more you read and study the better you become. When I first started solo sailing I intentionally did "building trips." One overnight near shore. A three day passage. A five day passage that included a 200 NM offshore leg. I didn't like 20 knot winds. I conquered that. Then I didn't like 30 knot winds. I conquered that. Then I didn't like 40 knot winds. I semi-conquered that. I still change my underwear after 50 knot winds. I eventually soloed the Atlantic. It too was a "building trip."

Rumor has it that 60% of people who move aboard on a boat move back off in the first year. Of those that are left, many become permanently attached to a dock. I suggest before you drop a lot of money in your dream you do a lot more crewing on other boats. Make sure this is what you really want to do.

You will know when you are ready....

Fair winds and following seas


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Awesome, totally 'REAL' post, Roger..


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

Fando:

Let me suggest you take a look at my blog. In particular:




Sailing - Reboot (USA 60493): December 22, 2014 Hitting the Wall

Sailing - Reboot (USA 60493): Cruising Budget - How Much Does it Cost?

Sailing - Reboot (USA 60493): So you think you are safe on a mooring ball?

Just a few to get your creative juices flowing.

BTW - I love this life.... It is just not the nirvana that many shore side people believe it to be.

Fair winds and following seas


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I think that novice no experience sailors asking questions about circumnavigating and bluewater boats is a sign of insanity! I bet the percent of those asking that ever really do it are VERY low.


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