# AC72 - On Foils



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

This was posted on SA over the weekend but dismissed as a photoshop touch up.

Sail-World however are claiming no spoof ... this is very real indeed.

Check it out if you wish here -










Sail-World.com : America's Cup: Emirates Team NZ foiling on Waitemata Harbour - Images


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I'm not getting why this was being dismissed, I thought this was borderline old school already.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

That is insane! Serious balancing act.

I wonder what the speed was. I heard the top speed of the 72s have been in the 40s. Wow.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

smackdaddy said:


> That is insane! Serious balancing act.
> 
> I wonder what the speed was. I heard the top speed of the 72s have been in the 40s. Wow.


Whether I'm on port or starboard I don't think I'll have time to get out of the way.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

What's interesting to me about these large racing multis is that they are reaching speeds that compete with and surpass most motor vessels. This is especially true when the sea states are up enough that smaller, faster motor vessels have to slow way down to stay stable.

It's crazy to think that the sailboat is becoming the fastest all-round means of sea travel.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CBinRI .... I have enough trouble keeping out the way of the Moth Foilers on Sydney Harbour .... if I saw that thing I think I'd simply duck and pray. 

Smack .... I doubt very much if that baby is ever going to cross an ocean ... 

PoopDeck ... A 72' foiler is old school ? Not in my universe.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

tdw said:


> PoopDeck ... A 72' foiler is old school ?


Sorry tdw, I'm thinking that may not have come out right; foils have been around for quite some time ( couple decades maybe ) so that's where my old school reference came from and why I didn't understand the dismissal or claims of photoshop, the tech has been around.

However, Foils on a 72' is impressive without question.

Now my arms are tired with all that back stroking


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

poopdeckpappy said:


> I'm thinking that may not have come out right; foils have been around for quite some time ( couple decades maybe ) so that's where my old school reference came from and why I didn't understand the dismissal or claims of photoshop, the tech has been around.
> 
> However, Foils on a 72' is impressive without question.
> 
> Now my arms are tired with all that back stroking


No sweat .... smiling while I typed, smiling while I read your reply. i had a vague feeling that you had missed something.

I am still stunned to watch the kids out and about on their Moth foilers. One young lad (who went on to win gold in the 470s at the Olympics) went round the lake course we use for the 24hr race at an average speed of 25knots despite missing the start cos his iPod wasn't working properly and stopping to pick up his hat when it blew off.

The thought of the same thing but 72' long is simply mind boggling.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

A few years back there was a french built foiled trimaran that clocked mid 50's,in the SF bay, it was later clocked in the low 60's but flipped somewhere off France.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

As a member of the race committee of our sailing club, I fear this technology making cruising multi-hulls someday. Imagine the grumbling around club ratings once the first foiling multi decides to beer can!!!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

poopdeckpappy said:


> A few years back there was a french built foiled trimaran that clocked mid 50's,in the SF bay, it was later clocked in the low 60's but flipped somewhere off France.


One of the Hydropter varients ?






Hey Smack ... this thing could get up and boogie ...






It had a funny nickname but I forget what it was. (Found it "The Caspian Sea Monster')


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

tdw said:


> One of the Hydropter varients ?


Yes, I just looked it up and read they were in SF this past weekend doing 37.5 kts (45mph) with a new 74 footer


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## n0w0rries (May 17, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> What's interesting to me about these large racing multis is that they are reaching speeds that compete with and surpass most motor vessels. This is especially true when the sea states are up enough that smaller, faster motor vessels have to slow way down to stay stable.
> 
> It's crazy to think that the sailboat is becoming the fastest all-round means of sea travel.


I bet for the $10M price tag of an AC72 you could get a pretty fast power boat... and you wouldn't need a crew of world class sailors to get it up to speed either.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

n0w0rries said:


> I bet for the $10M price tag of an AC72 you could get a pretty fast power boat... and you wouldn't need a crew of world class sailors to get it up to speed either.


No doubt. But I'm talking about the technology itself...which always gets cheaper over time (Moore's Law anyone?).



tdw said:


> Smack .... I doubt very much if that baby is ever going to cross an ocean ...


The AC72 maybe. But this one did a fine job of it...hitting 40+ a couple of times...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

GD mentions how the chase boats couldn't keep up in the sea-state...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> The AC72 maybe. But this one did a fine job of it...hitting 40+ a couple of times...


What was that Smack .... I'm thinking non foiler ? I was more of mind that foils long distance offshore would be a problem when it came to ultimate strength.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

That's Loick on his _Banque Populaire V_. And you're right - a non-foiler.

Agreed - I have no idea what foils would do to the offshore scenario. I was thinking more the multi.

I can't wait to see top speed on the foilers though. Just crazy that they can balance all that load against a single foil.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Peyron did his loop at an average speed of 26knots. If you could hold a foiler together for long enough .... wheeeeeee ......


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

L'hydroptere is in Frisco now. and will be going for the Transpacific record LA to Honolulu some time soon. that sounds pretty ocean going to me.
LAST NEWS :: L'HYDROPTÈRE - Alain Thébault


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## The Sailing Podcast (May 16, 2012)

I interviewed Jim Brown recently and he gave me a quick lesson on hydrofoils being the next big thing. I found a video of the AC72 up on it's foils. Can't post here yet but it is on the website at - thesailingpodcast.com/jimbrown


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Oh these beasts fly alright!


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

And just check out the chase boats! It's not just any old RIB that can keep up with these things!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

What I don't understand is the apparent simplicity of the foils on the AC boats. They basically look like an L shaped dagger board, with little (if any) means of adjustment. The foils I've seen on other boats of this size appear much more complex and stout. First, I can't believe that little "foot" can take almost the entire load. In fact, one of the foils broke off the first time the Oracle 72 sailed. They Frankensteined something from USA 17 (the tri that won the AC), and that's what they are using now. Given the technology involved in the rest of the boat, it seems rather simple and crude to me. In any case, it's certainly interesting and will be fun to watch. 
I throughly enjoyed watching the 45's in SF during the AC World Series. I'll never forget driving down Fillmore street and seeing the tops of the wings flying along at 25-30 knots ABOVE the buildings! It was actually difficult to comprehend what I was seeing. The 72's on foils with a 130 foot wing, should be absolutely ballistic! Seeing it in person will be quite different than on TV. If you can make it to SF in 2013, you've got a ride on my boat! Though, the shore viewing will be spectacular as well. Anyway....I digress. How bout those foils?


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

I believe the rules don't allow adjustable foils, hence the simplicity. The flying Moths have a rudder foil that can be adjusted with a twist of the tiller which allows them to constantly tweak the pitch of the boat.

I think the Kiwis are ahead of the pack on this one. I have seen plenty of footage of Emirates foiling fast and level. The footage I have seen of Oracle they always seem to have an awkward looking bow-up attitude.

It's gonna be crazy to see these beasts go head to head, although I fear it is going to be the usual, one boat is so much faster than the others that there is no contest.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

If the foils aren't adjustable, the ones that are optimized for the conditions on an actual race day will likely prevail that day. Could be interesting. Hydroptère has shown how adjusting foils can make a big difference. Some of these guys may get bad cases of the (comparative) slows if they can't tweak things.


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## Sic Semper Tyrannis (Feb 19, 2012)

Oracle is no more. They flipped and turtled the 72 and she is breaking up. 

I am sure Larry Ellison will just build another! 



Sent from my Kindle Fire


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Unfreakingbelievable!!!!! Wow!

That could seriously be the nail in the coffin.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This is really a bit mind-blowing.






These guys must have been 40'-50' off the water. Very lucky no one got hurt.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> This is really a bit mind-blowing.
> These guys must have been 40'-50' off the water. Very lucky no one got hurt.


Yeah...it's a 5 story fall, and they each carry small air tanks that will give them air for 20 minutes in case they get trapped under something (assuming they didn't hit anything on the way down and are still breathing!).
It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like the Leeward hull came up on the hydrofoil just as they started to fall off. If so, seems like very bad timing to me. Let's lift up the center of the boat, as we load up the bow, thereby becoming a U-boat! 
But then, I'm not a multi hull sailor, and know even less about hydrofoils!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Sic Semper Tyrannis said:


> Oracle is no more. They flipped and turtled the 72 and she is breaking up. I am sure Larry Ellison will just build another! Sent from my Kindle Fire


According to this account, the wing is toast, but it looks like the boat is still intact. 
America's Cup boat flips in SF Bay - SFGate
Here is raw footage of the salvage operation. Yep, the wing is certainly history. Hulls and dagger boards/foils seem to be intact. Notice how far the tides took her out, despite all the horsepower on the support boats! Wonder why they couldn't get her upright in the Bay when she she still appeared to be relatively intact. Of course, once that 130' wing went under in that tide.....
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/sports&id=8849866

Prior to the incident, it was blowing like stink, and they were falling off into a very strong Ebb. I'm surprised they were pushing it that hard so early in the game. In any case, you can bet Ellison will fix what needs to be fixed. It might be the end for any other team, but this AC is Ellison's baby, and he's got deep, deep pockets and an ego to match. USA 17 will sail again....bet on it!


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