# lead keel repair



## fixxxer0 (Jul 17, 2007)

So yesterday I hit a rock with the keel of my '73 C&C 30... my fault, no excuses. Hit it pretty good, stopped us dead from about 5 knots or so.

Bounced around on it for a minute until I was able to back the sails and get off it. Luckily no water instrusion or major immediate damage (other than my pride ha), since the boat sailed back perfectly fine and motored the same.

I'm pretty sure she has a solid lead keel (with bottom paint directly on it) bolted on to the hull. I looked at the keel bolts and they seem as they always did, but I am planning to retorque them to make sure. 

Obviously I am going to short haul to inspect the damage I did and look for any cracks in the fiberglass hull (solid and pretty thick from what I've heard) before and after the keel, as well the keel/hull joint around it.


I am crossing my fingers that the only thing I'm gonna find is a nasty fist sized dent in the lead keel and some missing bottom paint. My concern now is how to go about repairing the dent in the lead. 

I don't beleive there is any fiberglass encasement to deal with, so its just mangled/missing lead. Anyone have experience or ideas on how to fix this? 
Do you somehow weld another peice of lead back in there or just hammer it smooth and epoxy it? Torches involved? No idea what the best approach would be.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

this is one of those times where ignorance ain't bliss. The lead is the last thing i would be worried about. if you hit that hard, at that speed, check the leading and trailing edge of the keel stub. I bet you are going to see some cracking. Not a big repair, or a difficult repair, but a necessary one, and the sooner the better.

before hauling out, check around the keel bolts and in the sump of the bilge for cracking/missing bilge paint- this is an indicator that the keel stub has done some pretty major flexing.


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

Assuming you have no other damage, and the keel is still structurally sound (I would haul and get the opinion of a pro) you can re-fair the damaged area with epoxy filler. 

It is very important that the lead is clean and free of corroson. Before applying filler I would recommend sanding in some straight epoxy into the metal to get a good bond and corrosion barrier. It's also probably a good idea to build up the repair in layers with a godd 60-80grit scuff between. 

If the repair is going to be more than 1/4" thick I would build up the initial layers with a high density filler like 1/32" chopped glass fibers or cabosil at the least. You don't want to have to fair this stuff so leave some room for low density filler for the final fairing process.

I've done this repair many times with good results. This will also work if the keel turns out to be iron although cleanliness is much more important with iron. 

I'll say again just for good measure, this is only a cosmetic repair. You should still do a thorough inspection for structural damage.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Also look REALLY carefully at any tabbing in the floor area under the sole, esp behind the keel... this is where the evidence of serious flex will be easy to see.. separated tabbing is quite likely given you hit at that speed.


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## fixxxer0 (Jul 17, 2007)

Thanks for all the suggestions on things to check. The bilge access is horrible on this boat, its 5 or 6 little 5 inch round cutouts in the fiberglass floor that you can barely get your hand into. 

I'm gonna make a more detailed inspection on the inside before its hauled on monday. I'm debating whether or not to bother with insurance at this point. If I see anything alarming when its hauled I think I'm going to consider going through my insurance.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I banged my '76 C&C 30 keel a number of times. There is no tabbing, wood, or structure around the keel to check out...the keel stub is solid glass generally about 1" thick. Look carefully but from my experiences you should have no problem, other than a divot in the lead and perhaps re-opening the C&C smile on the front lip of the keel.

To fix the divot:
1. File off any disfigured lead.
2. Fill the divot with a epoxy/collodial silica paste.
3. Sand any exposed lead clean, then coat with 2-3 layers of clear epoxy. 
4. Sand again and paint.

I would not torque the keel bolts unless you are well versed in the torque setting and the right hardware.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

You should probably call your insurance. They might want to have someone there when you haul. We've had similar incidents. The main problem is at the upper trailing edge of the keel, which gets forced UP when you hit. The keel acts as a five or six foot lever, with the entire momentum of the boat leaning on it: the force is considerable. The force of the keel levering the bow down isn't as significant because the boat cushions it by sinking lower in the water at the bow. Conversely, the upward force at the trailing edge is trying to lift the entire boat OUT of the water (no cushion) focusing the lift point on an area of about five square inches. ouch. 

Before applying epoxygoop we take five and ten pound hammers and whang the bulging lead back into a more hydrodynamic shape.


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

I must say i am not a big fan of the C&C swept back keel design of that era but in this case probably a big plus as your keel would have slid up onto the rock as opposed to a sudden stop. Should have reduced the impact considerably.

Good luck

Gary


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Gary M said:


> I must say i am not a big fan of the C&C swept back keel design of that era but in this case probably a big plus as your keel would have slid up onto the rock as opposed to a sudden stop. Should have reduced the impact considerably.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Gary


Gary, you are 100% correct that the swept-back keel design contributed nicely to trip-and-go style of impact expereinced by that generation of C&Cs. The next generation C&C went to a much staighter keel - the same vicious rack smack at a first-generation '76 C&C 30 could and routinely did ignore, was season-ending for a second-generation '77 C&C 34.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I just did a keel rebed and it's not for the faint of heart or cheap.


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## donlofland (Dec 8, 2008)

Don Casey's book has a step by step guide to lead keel fixing...


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## fixxxer0 (Jul 17, 2007)

donlofland said:


> Don Casey's book has a step by step guide to lead keel fixing...


Care to paraphrase?


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I've got Casey's book and it doesn't go in depth enough...


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## TheMadDogs (Jul 10, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the grounding. Remember as kids everyone thought "grounding" was the worst thing that could happen to you? It's true!

What fortunate timing though. Well not the grounding but I just happened to be reading through one of the "How to" booklets put together by West System (not related to West Marine). They have an entire section dealing with a step by step how to repair a dented lead keel.

Go to their website West System  and check out the Fiberglass Boat Repair and Restoration booklet they have online. It looks informative and helpful.

Good luck!

Dean


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## fixxxer0 (Jul 17, 2007)

TheMadDogs said:


> Sorry to hear about the grounding. Remember as kids everyone thought "grounding" was the worst thing that could happen to you? It's true!
> 
> What fortunate timing though. Well not the grounding but I just happened to be reading through one of the "How to" booklets put together by West System (not related to West Marine). They have an entire section dealing with a step by step how to repair a dented lead keel.
> 
> ...


Yes it is up there on the top of my list of bad things to happen. I'm still hearing the jokes from my two friends that were on board haha.

But that article is pretty good, for anyone else who wants to check it out without searching around... http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf and goto page 56.

I think my keel is a low % lead-antimony alloy so I'll report back on monday and let you know how the suggested methods worked out for flattening the dent. I think I'm gonna save the epoxy and fairing until winter haulout.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

paulk said:


> You should probably call your insurance. They might want to have someone there when you haul. We've had similar incidents. The main problem is at the upper trailing edge of the keel, which gets forced UP when you hit. The keel acts as a five or six foot lever, with the entire momentum of the boat leaning on it: the force is considerable. The force of the keel levering the bow down isn't as significant because the boat cushions it by sinking lower in the water at the bow. Conversely, the upward force at the trailing edge is trying to lift the entire boat OUT of the water (no cushion) focusing the lift point on an area of about five square inches. ouch.
> 
> Before applying epoxygoop we take five and ten pound hammers and whang the bulging lead back into a more hydrodynamic shape.


_Plus One_, as they say on some forums, for the good advice from this poster. As others point out, this can lead to some expense if any interior structure was affected or rebedding is needed. Do hunt up the claims phone # for your insurer.

When we purchased our present boat it had a baseball-sized ding at the bottom leading edge of the lead keel. No interior hull damage and the yard filled the ding after smoothing the edges of the gouge back some. That was in '95.

OTOH, we passed up a previous deal on a beautiful Wauquiez 33 because it did have interior structural damage from exactly the problem cited above, i.e. we could easily find tabbing torn loose in some stringers and structure above the rear of the keel attachment. Broker shrugged and the owner would not comment -- it did sell and we presume that someone bought that boat and hopefully had a proper repair done.

Generally, it's best to haul it and check it out. 
Regards,
L


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## fixxxer0 (Jul 17, 2007)

okay well i guess crossing my fingers worked... no structural damage visible anywhere i looked. no keel seperation noted either or glass cracking. the lead scrape didnt even look that bad either.

one surprise though is that the keel is covered in glass... i dont know if this is original or not. i had a C&C 27 of the same year and the keel is sitting in the yard right now, and its bare lead.

im attaching some pics from my cell phone (all i had on me).


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

You'll have to clean off the lead oxide just prior to re-laminating the keel or the resin won't stick.


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