# Absolutely unbelievable story..check this out



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

The boat that shares the double slip with my boat is a Hanse 37 or 38. One of the nice ones with self tacking genoa.

It was bought 3 years ago and bought fully equiped. The owner is a wealthy Portuguese man that lives in one of the Portuguese islands, and bought it full options, inside and outside.

The boat was sailed 2 times, in the first weeks of the buying. Never out for painting or zinc changes or anything in 3 years. It just sits there. The blue has faded, the white deck turned to yellow and the teak is rotting. 3 years old!!

Anyway, the owner, has 3 kids, I would say about 24 to 28 YO, twins. Both are very weird, and seem consumed by heavy drugs, the type that has done some heavy chemicals that burnt their brains. Its sad. 

They are both all painted with tattos, and one of them, the "worse" brain dead one, is painted like one of those warriors that do that dance in the rugby games..you know the put the tongue out and such....he has dark patches under the eyes and balls painted all over the face... he shaves his head too.

The kid comes every day to the boat and is allways doing something, he has no car and is seen many times riding a bicycle downtown. He dresses funny, sometimes a pink sock and a yellow one, allways in a T-shirt with some weird band logo, and wears a thin thong as underwear all the time, that can be seen when he rides the bicycle or kneels down to do something. He is very polite when he looks my way, and I allways say something like..hey sailor..he looks at me and very politely allways replies something like it was the first time he saw me, he sees me leave with the boat every day, and asks me often...do you sail alone??? sometimes he sees me returning, and 20 minutes later he asks me..did you go sailing?? He seems impressed I sail with my boat, and allways very polite. He treats me as Sir, or Mister...and then goes insode his boat..no talk, sometimes he says nothing...he is known in the marina as 2the carzy one"..

He is many hours a day in the boat and he talks to him slef alot...sometimes he shouts like there is someone there with him, and normally when he shouts and talks loudly, he is inside and says things like "ahh they are coming"..."they think I can't see them"..."leave me alone"...etc...

He also covered all the windows, companion door with duct tape, from the inside, and the comapnion door also from the outside.

He allways rides his bike all the way to the boat and puts his bike on the deck even if he is there for only 5 minutes... A few days ago he leaned his bike against the mast and emptied a can of WD40 on the bike, leaving the greas all over the mast, deck wood etc...just like that...

Anyway, a few weeks ago, we could see a lot of wood (varnished and not) in the pontoon, and all over the place...the guy that looks after my boat said he made at least 10 runs to the garbage bins and dumped all the wood there. Doors cut in pieces, fiberglass, cabinet doors a whole lot of wood...everywhere.

He hauled wood for at least 8 days, allways hammering and cuting with electric saw etc.

Outside, all the halyards were removed, and all the sheets removed, he had replaced all the lines and ropes with fishing lines!!!! I swear...I will get some photos next week...

He also took the selft tacking genoa , cut it and dumped it in the garbage, complete with blocks a friend kept for him...to return to the kid...he's nuts...

Anyway...a few weeks ago, before I came to Canada, I saw him outside in the cockpit and he looked at me and said, "hey Sir, my radio smokes, do you know why it smokes??"

So I was a bit worried, and asked if he wanted me to loook at it...he said Please do, Sir.

So I entered his boat!!!

MY GOD, is all I can say....he had removed every single piece of furniture, the boat is a whole wide space, the head is there, but has no walls, he cut the bulkead all around (very badly cut), and where it was cut, he nailed his sheets to cover the cuts, so his sheets are all nailed in the roof, and all over...

he cut the wood compression post, (I told him to get a piece of wood and make a new one) and explained what it was...he looks at me like I was a brain surgeon, and said, wow??? really?? I did no know... I just didn't like the post here...

All over the now side walls of the hull he painted yellow and orange and blue squares with house paint, drips everywhere...

The sink is there, but he removed the taps...only the floors are there and the bottom fiber glass parts of the settes and beds are there, buat all pillows etc. are gone.

He has a car radio wired outside, laying in what I think was the nav station, and he said that was where the smoke came from...he showed me, he has no fuses, nothing...and was connecting the two live wires and saying they smoked....I swear...no fuses nothing....he removed everything...some wires were hanging there, but insulated as he said he was going to call an electrician...

So I made sure he got the radio wired correctly, but the radio was dead. He show up next day with a brand new one, same brand, I swear at least a $600 radio...I wired it for him, with a 2 amp fuse, and told him to call the electrician every time the "music" did not work...

There are more incredible things from my next door neighbour...like I asked why he did that, he said he needed the space for his trip around the World.

He also said he removed the "ropes" from outside because he did not like them, and wanted to change the genoa, because it covers the view when sailing!!!

By the way, the sails are there, but he nailed the sail bags with nails!!!! to the sides of the boat in the forward cabin, together withs some sheets as decor.

I asked him why he cut and removed the forward bed, he said, he was going to cut the fore deck from the mast to the bow, and remove it, so he could lower a dinghy (that he bought), and store it in the space that was the forward bed, before!!!! he is going to start cutting the deck!!!! I told him not to do it now...he agreed, to do it "in the summer" less rain you know!!

I am going to try and get some photos for you to see, if you don't believe me...


Today I was talking to Val on the phone, because I had forgotten to tell him about this incredible story..here you go....

Now I am worried like hell, my boat is on the dry now, but next week I we are neighbours again..if his boat catches fire or sinks, mine is 2 feet from his...

I am very very very worried.....I think I am going to tell my marina manager about this.

I bought this space because I knew the kid never sails, so he never scratches my boat...now...I am worried...

What would you guys do. Please remember, the kid is nice, polite and minds his own business, he was never aggressive or anything...just away from reality, also remember, this is Europe, so we don't sue people for anything, and we don't expect our cops to beat the hell out of people ...

Thanks


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Wow - that's quite a story... will we see pictures soon? (assuming your flight gets off the ground!)

Don't see what you can do - other than for his own sake persuade him to stay tied up forever.

You said you "bought" your slip... guess that means it's difficult to relocate.

What a shame, what's been done to that boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Uggh... I hope he's not doing drugs... especially ones that involve fire... 

Good luck... sounds like the boat is a real wreck.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

The guy may be polite, but to do 10's of 1000's of dollars damage to the boat, something isn't right. I would worry. Sounds like a Steven king novel looking for a place to happen.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

I'll first introduce you to my "credentials" in commenting on this...

While walking along to the slip of a friend's boat on which I was crewing, I noticed the transom of a new E24 in the marina and thought I would wonder over&#8230; Little did I know I was about to encounter an Endeavour that had been tortured and mutilated into this Horror.








is where the terror begins. What is that thing jammed onto the bow? Has someone converted an E24 into a small whaling boat? Like driving past a multi-car wreck on the freeway, I had to take a closer look.
(Side note: The headsail seen on the foredeck is actually a very expensive top-quality racing sail&#8230;or at least it once was. People in neighbouring pens state that it has been sitting like that on the foredeck for the last four years. Very bizarre.)








The first thing that came to light was that whatever this thing on the front of the boat was&#8230;it had undergone massive change and revision at the hands of a peculiar mind. Reinforcement plates had been welded and riveted to the inside of the angle-iron frame. Fairleads that may have had some purpose early on where now just hanging on like barnacles in places they could not achieve anything. To make it so much more special though, the entire frame was made of mild steel and had been painted (possibly dipped, or more accurately sculpted onto) with bituminous latex in a remarkable shade of baby-cack. Anyone that has retiled their own bathroom will be familiar with bituminous latex; it is the moisture barrier you paint onto the undersurface in preparation to tiling. It is not UV stable and tends to go runny. Our hero's solution seems to be to have simply painted on some more over the top until a very organic and disturbing globbiness had been achieved on all surfaces.
(By the way, the little thing at the top of this picture seems to be a home made hawk (complete with its own coating of baby-cack latex. The fact that this is not clear of the wind distortion set up by the sails or, in fact, is not visible when the headsail is up seems to be irrelevant.








The dual bow-rollers at the base of this contraption seem to be a good idea, until you notice that they are made with welded in bits of tube instead of rollers and that the tube is about 18ga (would buckle with strong thumb/forefinger pressure). Since there is not the slightest mark on the latex that is painted on these, I do not think an anchor has ever come close to these.
Before leaving the bow of this aquatic Mad Max vehicle I should point out that what this thing seems to be for is a banana shaped bowsprit that has allowed him to place two extra forestays onto the boat in addition to the original forestay and the baby-stay further back.
The fact that these two stays are hanging slack and there are blocks and fairleads seemingly leading to nowhere managed to keep me awake for a couple of nights trying to puzzle it out. I have decided to quit that before I go mad(der).
The outermost of these extra stays, does have a downhaul&#8230;. but it only leads back to the foredeck&#8230;so you have to be standing right there to use it anyway. Utterly useless.
Lets move further back along this trainwreck&#8230;








This is the mast base&#8230;complete with pinrail and belaying pins&#8230;. ON A 24FOOTER?!?!?
Also note the HUGE mooring cleats that seem to be woodscrewed into the cabin-top. Yes that is a large crack next to the starboard one. I guess there was never any backing plate.
The "organic" nature of the boat continues with both the grime growing on the deck and the continued use of that bucket of baby-cack bituminous latex. Apparently it works on wood too!









The clever and stylish modification to the windows more or less speaks for itself. This belongs in Better Homes And Gardens&#8230;just not a frigging boat!
Notice the quality of application.
Say it with me people, Bituminous Latex&#8230;.. Oooooh!








Not much to say about the mast except that it features sixteen stainless steel mast steps, all carefully fitted UPSIDE DOWN (the tread is visible on the "underside") and seemingly attached to the mast with mild steel woodscrews. But what about corrosion, I hear you ask, Well fear not, the bottom third (more or less) has been splashed vigorously with that miracle product for happy boating&#8230;Bituminous Latex!
So, by this point there really isn't a lot of E24 left. How much worse could it get? Well, please allow me to introduce you to the steering system&#8230;








Yes&#8230;it gets worse.








Please note the powerboat compass on the port side. It is completely impossible to use accurately while using the "wheel" on the starboard side. Did I mention that bituminous latex seems to stick to timber?








And as we approach the end of this horror show&#8230;here is the elegant and functional steering box that sits atop the rudderpost. Yes that is a very expensive Lumar self-tailing winch. I have absolutely no idea what it is doing there. It does not go to a furler or a sheet or indeed anything else. It just has a coil of rope that doesn't do anything. It is a single winch (not part of a pair).
The elevated mainsheet traveller is kind of bulky (and latex covered, of course) but is understandable and practical in comparison to most everything else done to this poor boat.








Just a shot of the cockpit in all its splattered glory. I particularly like the non-slip safe flooring rubber that is laying around in chunks you can trip over.

And to conclude the tour&#8230;








No, you are not seeing triple. This boat really does have three backstays, all mounted within inches of each other. Only the centre one is on a proper chainplate. On of the stays has an insulator for a HF ariel mounted at the bottom, but not at the top. The other clutter is a whip 27meg ariel and a HF ariel all mounted to the back deck in a swiss-cheese sort of arrangement.
There are two fishing rod tubes welded to the pushpit rail&#8230;but there is no way to reach them past all this stuff.
Note also the huge stainless fairleads and mooring cleats.
The not unattractive blue used on hatch covers, by the way, is another brand (and thus colour) of bituminous latex. This guy didn't just have a ten litre bucket of the stuff he wanted to use up&#8230;he did this with planning and malice aforethought.
The solar panel is overshaded by nearly everything.
I wandered away from this boat a saddened man, my friends. This is obviously what happens to unwary Endeavours that fall into bad company. I am tempted to set up a fund and buy it from this owner and then rehabilitate it into a real boat once more.
___________________________________

As to what you can do about it....
Talk to the marina management and ask them to get in touch with the boat's actual owner. Get them to relaise that they now have a formal compaint of an unsafe and unseaworthy boat being in the marina and a potential danger to other residents.

make it formal and make it in writing.

They will act on it. They will likely find him a slip to move to that is more "out of the way" for now, and they will likely get in touch with the owner and explain that something will need to be done within X amount of time.
Think about it this way, when was the last time the kid seriously inspected and replaced his mooring lines? Reinforced them in bad weather? How long till he decides he does not like them and replaces them with 15pound fishing line too?
he does not need to catch fire, he just needs to go drifting unpowered through the marina... bumpty bump debump.

he does actually use proper facilites for draining his toilet's holding tank, deosn't he? If so, how does he get the boat around to the station? If not...you do not want to be near that!

Cheers.

Sasha


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giu,
Wow, it sounds like all the crazies are not over here. Does he party with his friends on the boat? I would be worried also not that he'd scratch your boat but that he would mistake yours for his fathers and then start on his next project on yours. I don't think there is much of anything you can do. The only thing I can think of that the marine manager can do is contact the kid's father to see if he is ok with the "modifications". I think he should definitely do that. Beyond that have you considered moving your slip?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giu, It's sad about the kid but you have to look out for your property.
I think telling the marina manager is the best. You don't want your boat to burn, he doesn't want his dock to burn either.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Damn, I'm glad that I don't have anything like that near me in my marina...


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sasha, that boat is impressive...could it be a prop used on a movie?

The kid in the Hanse doesn't live there, he just goes there often.

Our marinas have state of the art WC's and showers, he doesn't use the head. Its just sitting there...

The boat is tied with extremely thick ropes, and my boat keepr actually sees that his boat is properly tied at all times, and when we get storms, when my boat keeper tightens my boat, he also tightens his, so his does not hit mine..I am ok with it.

Another thing I forgot, is he has 10 or 12 fenders he hang between me and him...

Kinda offensive with that, as initially I took it as a sign I could not moor!! ehehehe

I like that, because of his fenders I only carry 3 now, and save weight!


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

Well, you could just decide now is an adventageous time to triple the insurance value on your boat....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giu-

Could it be that he knew he didn't want to damage your boat, rather than him thinking you couldn't dock a boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> remember, this is Europe, so we don't sue people for anything, and we don't expect our cops to beat the hell out of people ...
> 
> Thanks


I can make a couple of phone calls, no cops or attorneys involved.
note to self...stay off drugs.
how long can you keep your boat on the hard? can you change slips for awhile? or at least until the Hanse sinks or torches. very sad story indeed. i took a look at a 41 Hanse and was afraid to touch anything as it was a beautiful boat. sad story Giu, good luck


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

teshannon said:


> Giu,
> Wow, it sounds like all the crazies are not over here. Does he party with his friends on the boat? I would be worried also not that he'd scratch your boat but that he would mistake yours for his fathers and then start on his next project on yours. I don't think there is much of anything you can do. The only thing I can think of that the marine manager can do is contact the kid's father to see if he is ok with the "modifications". I think he should definitely do that. Beyond that have you considered moving your slip?


Te, he is absolutely alone, he never has friends, no parties, no noise (other than when he talks to "I don't know who", and that is not very loud as he does that inside only), its the perfect neighbour, until I spoke with Val today and he got me all worried...I had never thought of his boat catch fire...CF burns fast...

My space is the most sought after spot in that marina, it faces North, which is good to dock in the Nortada (30kt North winds we get daily), Its in the middle of the pier, where the bottom is deepest, far away from the water wall, and from the crowded bars and restaurants and mall in the marina.

The space to my stbd is empty as the owner sold his boat and no one goes there.

I really feel so sorry for this boy...I have kids you know..

You can see my boat in its place in end of October 2007. Nice spot isn't it?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

IDEA! tell him your on parole for killing some crackhead that scratched your last boat


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

uspirate said:


> IDEA! tell him your on parole for killing some crackhead that scratched your last boat


You have no idea, man...he is really crazy..

One day I was on my boat, doing something, he sees me and says, "ahhhh hello Sir, I saw you have a sailboat too" !!!!! This was after we were neighbours for almost 11 months!!

I am lucky in a way, because my keeper goes to the boat at leaste 8 or 9 times a day, and my friend that owns the racing boat school as a keepr that stays in the dock all day long, but still....


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## crosseyeddreamer (Dec 3, 2007)

*dock craizies*

Giu,
It is unfortunate that you have a neighbor that dwells in Bozo-land and enough to cause concern..however, considering we have one that is our President, the situation could be worse......


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

crosseyeddreamer said:


> Giu,
> It is unfortunate that you have a neighbor that dwells in Bozo-land and enough to cause concern..however, considering we have one that is our President, the situation could be worse......


What boat does he have?????


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Alex,
I can't say this with certainty, but I can say it with a good deal of confidence: He's on methamphetamine, and I would not doubt that he's going to turn his father's boat into a meth lab. Just to be absolutely clear -- I'm not joking. I think you are right to worry about your boat, as these labs are often very explosive, as they use combustible chemicals to make the drugs. I'll PM you...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> What boat does he have?????


The U.S.S. Ronald Reagan is one of several i believe


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giu,
That is a nice slip, I can see why you don't want to move. I really do think someone needs to get in touch with the kids father and it would be better if the marine manager did it, not you. He has a vested interest in the safety of not only your boat but of the entire marina.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Alex...you don't make it clear if his father knows what has been done to his boat. If not...you might ask the marina owner to get in touch with Dad to le him know what has happened to his boat and get proof of adequate liability insurance since the boat is now a hazzard. Suggest you take the slip to starboard...and avoid all contact with the kid personally per Hawgs comments.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

We, really don't feel threatened by the kid, and like I said, he is rather poilte.

I think I will do what you guys are recommending and have the marina call his dad. That is if they want to. I could allways call him anonimously.

I will do that before returning.

Just one question. If he doesn't replace zincs in 3 years, his prop may have gone, as well as the prop shaft, wouldn't the boat be in risk of sinking attached to the pier?

Also, his lack of anodes could affect my boat?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

i dont think the lack of anodes would effect yours because while his would be attracting them, your is repelling them. so where do you think they are more likely to go?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ummm... very sad, but true. Fortunately, he's not going to be re-elected...


crosseyeddreamer said:


> Giu,
> It is unfortunate that you have a neighbor that dwells in Bozo-land and enough to cause concern..however, considering we have one that is our President, the situation could be worse......


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

His lack of new annodes is not likely to cause yours to corrode faster...the electrical nightmare 2 feet away form your boat, whihc is unlikley to be proper;ly earthed and is likely to be putting a lot of stray current into the water WILL eat your annodes faster. Much faster. It does not take much wiring stupidity to cause boats for 30meters in every direction to halve the service life of their annodes.

I do not think his boat will sink through shaft corrosion of the prop. It may have a failure of a through hull fitting...or he could just decide the through-hull valaves and hoses displease him the way the furniture did and one day take a saw or axe to them in order to "move them around". So, if his boat lists towards yours as it sinks, what is his rig going to do when it tangles up in your rig?


And for what it is worth...It is entirely possible that he is not on methanphetimenes...he could be one of the tens of thousands of poeple that thinks (wrongly) that they can control bi-polar disorder with maruanna (it makes it worse. From dealing with such people: It calms the inner voices, but the voices it quiets most are the ones attached to reality and your rational mind...so you get left with the ones telling you to go dance with the purple leprechauns).


Sasha


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Change the boys name to "Space Man" then give him a one way ticket to USA, where he will fit it...


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## HGSail (Jan 21, 2006)

A couple of years ago I had a collage age Kid move into the slip next to me. (I am not a liveaboard but he was) He was a very nice kid as yours is. When he moved in he told mer that he wanted to live the bohemian life style while he went to UC Santa Barbara. He got this cute little dog named him Becker (after the surfboard) The problem was that everytime I went down to my boat I would find beerbottle caps in my cockpit and his was full of beer cans and bottles. (I mean FULL!!) The worst part of it was he would let Becker do his business on the deck but he would never clean it up, So when I would make my weekly visit I would have to go sailing just to get some fresh air. Finnaly after about a year I guess the manager got tired of the smell and kicked him out.

Pat
E29
'73
#224
Holy Guacamole


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

RickBowman said:


> Forget the meth manufacturing suggestion. That isn't realistic, it's boardering on rediculous. Meth manufacturing creates noxious gasses and odors that could not be concealed in such a tight knit (?) marina environment.




You're correct in that the manufacture of meth creates noxious gasses, and that it could not be concealed in a marina environment -- unless of course it is being manufactured at 3 a.m. Bear in mind that this stuff is EVERYWHERE these days, and it's very easy to make. The recipes are posted online, and the materials to make them readily available. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but it is well within the realm of possibility. If you think he might be on drugs, you have to ask yourself what kind of drugs he would be on. Is he just smoking pot? Maybe so. Is it meth? If so, then there is a good chance he's making it himself. I've had extensive contact with people who have manufactured the stuff, as well as law enforcement people who have dealt with the problem in the U.S. The people who make the stuff are almost always users, and one of the hallmarks of their personalities is paranoia, which Alex described in his post. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but there is definitely cause for concern here.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I don't see any cause for concern that the boat might be being used as a lab. I've seen the LE side of meth and have been in on one lab bust.

The precursor chemicals are no longer freely available in most countries (including the USA and the EU) - just try to buy more than a pack or two of ephedrine-based products at a drug store and you'll find out. 
The process (there are several popular methods used) will always use volatile solvents and some form of hydrochloric acid for the final reduction; all of which are noxious and detectable to the unaided nose - unless professional, commercial airtight lab equipment is used and the chances of that in a small lab are non-existent. The sense of smell is the most sensitive, and even a small waft of HCL will wake people up immediately - just as a only a miniscule amount of smoke triggers awareness. These are just my 2c worth, of course.

List of common solvents
==================
Acetone Fingernail polish remover Volatile irritant, flammable No
Benzene Thinners, lacquers Volatile irritant, flammable No
Ethanol Grain alcohol Volatile irritant, flammable No
Ether Starter fluid Volatile irritant, flammable No
Freon Refrigerant Volatile irritant No
Hexane Thinners, lacquers Volatile irritant, flammable No
Isopropanol Rubbing alcohol Volatile irritant, flammable No
Methanol Gasoline additives, Heet Volatile irritant, flammable No
Naptha
Petroleum Distillates Mineral Spirits Volatile irritant, flammable No
Toluene Toluol Volatile irritant, flammable No
Trichloroethane Gun cleaning solvent Volatile irritant No


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

teshannon said:


> I would be worried also not that he'd scratch your boat but that he would mistake yours for his fathers and then start on his next project on yours.


STOP SAWING THE TABLE!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Also, his lack of anodes could affect my boat?


If he's sawn through his bonding system and galvanic isolation and he's on shore power, yeah, maybe, but it would have nothing to do with his anodes, just the fact that he may have casually destroyed all the safety gear on board.

Is he plugged into shore power?


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Get your snorkel mask on, remove his anodes and accelerate the process of his boat sinking! Or - find his raw water through hull, get a sharp metal rod, and just start jamming it up there until you feel it go through something. Then unplug his shore power. Oops


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm sure there wouldn't be too many questions if the thing suddenly sunk.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Alex - You are a good human being. Thank you.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I read the story last night, but did not respond.
I have not read all of the post, so I appologize if I am out in left field.

but, it seems to me that with all of the regulations and licensing that goes on in your country, that the local authorites might step in and handle the situation. Might they find the boat unfit to be on the water and an inoperable watercraft and perhaps impound it?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Wow!!

I thought your country had these 5 year inspections to get certified to be in the water? How many years has it been? I think a safety inspection is in order, or can you do that in the marina?

I guess I would call the dad too. That is just me though.

- B


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Zanshin said:


> The precursor chemicals are no longer freely available in most countries (including the USA and the EU) - just try to buy more than a pack or two of ephedrine-based products at a drug store and you'll find out.


This is true. My thinking is apparently a bit dated. I was working on a project in 2001-2002 when circumstances were considerably different. They do, however, blow up with regularity. A house here on HHI burned down while the tennants were brewing up a batch. Gotta admire that kind of initiative!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TJ,

That is one of the problems, territorial issues. I guess I need to explain to you guys too, so bear with me. This is beautiful…”old Continent laws”…check this out…

The marina is private, but it’s considered an "international" Port, because it has customs.

Therefore, when I am in the pier, I am not really in Portugal, but in "transit". Jurisdiction of the matter passes from the Police to the Navy, and the Fiscal Police (Customs). When I sail around my coast, I have never "officially" left the marina, or home port, but if I am going to another marina, and stay there, my home port is still the one of my marina, but my file passes to the other marina, and that will be the port of "operation" until I leave. I had to that with Tom and Val. Basically when you are sailing in my boat you are in "international" transit, if you leave the port and don't return same day.

Every time I leave my marina, and do not return, we need to stop at the reception, clear "customs" informing the marina we are leaving, and have to declare all on board. I also need to inform arrival date Approximate, so they start rescue if we don't arrive. If we are satying at anchor, we simply state no destination harbour, but indicate approximate laoction of sail waters. We like that because its for our own rescue.

The marina has no right to enter the boat unless to save from something, they are only a Land lord, with no right of access to private property; they just rent the water to you.
I can only complain to them within their responsibilities, and they don’t care what the boat does as long as its inside the regulations. I think however they require the boat to be safe, (and this is something I have hope to pick on).

The police has no authority over the boat, as it never left port, has nothing to "declare" and its not land, Port authority is the one, but they only check paper work and drugs etc. Nothing with seaworthiness, that’s the NAVY.

The Navy CG only has jurisdiction if the boat is moving, and outside the port,.

Customs has no investigative power and no jurisdiction on safety, and has no subject on safety.

Remember the boat no one owns, I think its stolen???

Technically, the perfect crime would be to kill someone on my boat while moored to the marina, as long as no blood is thrown in the water.

Sad, but true.

I am however taking measures already and will let you know the outcome…after all, I am still “Alex”, in that marina…


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Wow!!
> 
> I thought your country had these 5 year inspections to get certified to be in the water? How many years has it been? I think a safety inspection is in order, or can you do that in the marina?
> 
> ...


1 more year for that. HOWEVER, if the boat does not leave the marina, it does not need to be seaworthy, as long as the taxes are paid, and the dues are paid, all are happy...NO WAY OUT..read above.

Only call the dad, is the solution....I will do that, asking the marina to do that


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Technically, the perfect crime would be to kill someone on my boat while moored to the marina, as long as no blood is thrown in the water...


I can see you are weighing your options


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> TJ,
> Technically, the perfect crime would be to kill someone on my boat while moored to the marina, as long as no blood is thrown in the water.
> 
> Sad, but true.
> ...


So, shoot the dude and move on...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> TJ,
> 
> That is one of the problems, territorial issues. I guess I need to explain to you guys too, so bear with me. This is beautiful&#8230;"old Continent laws"&#8230;check this out&#8230;
> 
> ...


Geeezzz and you think OUR country is messed up??!!?


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Giu,

If you take the kid out for a sail on your boat, to show him what all those ropes do, maybe he'll start to understand why his boat needs treating differently.

I don't think talking to the marina or his dad is going to make a friend out of him, and so far he is showing willing. It sounds to me like he is a neglected son of a stupidly rich father.

The reason I say this is because I have seen one case of a tattooed thug with a green bog brush hair style turned into an excellent number 1 spi pole monkey - just by someone giving him the chance.

Best of luck anyway.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Idiens said:


> Giu,
> 
> If you take the kid out for a sail on your boat, to show him what all those ropes do, maybe he'll start to understand why his boat needs treating differently.
> 
> ...


I was wondering where Giu learned how to sail... and I bet he never even said thank you!

- CD


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow, Alex, where to begin?  

First, I'd like to comment on Hog & Sasha's posts. Hog, I think that if this guy were wacked out on meth enough for this behavior there would probably be more physical signs (like the stereotypical open sores) and he would probably not be as polite as Alex makes him out to be.

Sasha, don't think that the restrictions on pre-cursor chemicals has made much (if any) of a dent in meth production. And a boat of that size would make a dandy home based lab. The latest in our area is mobile labs in RV's. Cam, you listenin'? LOL BUT, this guy really doesn't sound like that is his gig.

If I had to guess (and that's ALL this semi-professional could do) I would say that he is a paranoid schizophrenic off of his medication. The self talking, the delusional modifications to his environment, the lack of recognition of people who he has met & interracted with; all are classic symptoms.

It is unlikley that his family is unaware of his condition; but they may well be unaware of it's current state.

Alex, you would be doing this young man (as well as yourself) a favor if you contacted his family and kindly suggested they check in with him, as his behavior "has changed, lately". This would be a good clue for them; yet would not be judgmental or confrontational.

This young man needs help, the type that you can only provide by letting those who are closest to him what is going on. 

I don't know about in Portugal; but mental illness can have stereotypes placed on it that can make the issue very sensitive. Don't buy into that. I know you are a good man; but don't think that you would be doing him any favors by "live and let live".

Just my 2 cents worth; but for what it's worth I work with drug addicts, mental patients, and those in extreme poverty every day. I can smell this one from a hundred miles.

Best of Luck,
Fred


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## mkmckn (Feb 15, 2007)

Giu,
I have to agree with Idiens. It sounds to me like he's a neglected rich kid with a lot of bad ideas. He simply dosen't know what he's doing. He just dosen't know anything at all about boats. He's probably never even been out sailing. I would at least try taking him out sailing and showing him what all the lines do and how important the various components of the boat are. He'll probably wind up listening to you because nobody else has bothered to teach him about these things. If he does start to understand what he's done, then you get to see the look on his face when he realizes what he did to such a beautiful sailboat. 
Take the kid sailing, we all know how powerful that can be. If it dosen't work, then at least you tried. Good luck.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't want to be the fly in the ointment; but until you know a LOT more about this guy you do NOT want to get too close to him. People who exhibit his behavior can make very fast and innapropriate attachments; which when they ultimately get rebuffed as they exhibit themselves as obsessive can lead to very dangerous thoughts.


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## mkmckn (Feb 15, 2007)

Maybe I missed something, but how do we know he's a drug addict? From what I read here it sounds like he's just a bad dresser who's in the process of destroying his fathers sailboat. He may just think he's preparing the boat for a circumnavigation but he has no idea what he's doing. And nobody to tell him how terribly wrong he is.
I'm just saying that a little reaching out to the kid might show him to be a lot less scary than everybody seems to be making him out to be. 
If you talk to him a little and he is a junkie or he's really crazy, then you can call his parents or the harbor manager or whatever authority it takes. 
Assuming he is a drug addict is just going to perpetuate the problem though. He's probably just a stupid kid. We were all stupid kids once.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I was focusing on the fact that he has a running verbal conversation with himself that winds up in shouting matches.....


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Well, that means dropping a hammer on my toe makes me into a meth drained maniac (until the pain wears off).


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

OK, so "I'M" the paranoid one ........... Maybe, but better safe than sorry. And there is a huge difference between a little muttering to yourself in the midst of a difficult task, or a small rant when something goes seriously afoul; and the type of actions that I feel Alex was portraying.

Also, the fact that he was worried enough to post his tale and ask our opinions means to me that something is up. I've never seen Alex give anyone anything less than a reasoned hearing. (apart from when he is kidding around)


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

Greetings, Though I've read quite a few articles I've never posted. So this is my first and it isn't even about sailing. I'm and RN and have some profesional experience with mental health. The young man being discussed sounds like he is either a disorganized schizophrenic or has schizoaffective disorder. Such individuals are typically harmless though quite bizarre. They often self-medicate with street drugs and alcohol, but this isn't the primary problem. Their brains are physiologically different and and they are sometimes incapable of normal deductive and inductive thought. I doubt any intervention would have much effect. 

Someone did mention obsessive attachments, which could be an issue here. I would avoid having the young man on my boat, were I in you position. Consider helping him find a sailing instructor that could mentor him. If he can afford a $600 stereo he may have the resources to afford this, too. In the USA there are organizations which work with mentally ill people. I would expect they are available in Portugal as well. Still, as stated above it may not have much effect. 

I would consider informing his father about the destruction to the boat and concerns for his son's well being. If he is aboard when something disasterous happens he may not be able to think rationally enough to get himself out of a sinking, burning, electrified boat. Insurance can pay for damaged property but I am more concerned that he is unknowingly building himself an elaborate and creative coffin. From the tone of your posts I get the impression you are more concerned about his well being and I think if you contact his father out of these concerns it would have the most impact.

Good luck, Michael


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Thank you, mj; for having my back.........


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

_"He is many hours a day in the boat and he talks to him slef alot...sometimes he shouts like there is someone there with him, and normally when he shouts and talks loudly, he is inside and says things like "ahh they are coming"..."they think I can't see them"..."leave me alone"...etc..."_

Alex: I agree with Ajari on this. I don't know if he's dangerous or just unpredictable as only you have had contact with him, we haven't. My first thought in this to contact the marina management as others have suggested. Would talking to the management about what insurance coverage the other boat has (if any at this point), and if it's up to date, be of any use? Reports I've read from cruisers in Europe have indicated that liability insurance is required (at a minimum). Given your description of the boat I would be surprised if any company would take the risk of insuring it. Lack of insurance coverage may be a valid reason for the marina to get rid of the boat or at least move to land.

It's a difficult situation, we all wish you the best of luck.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Guil...

The boy is mentally ill.... but then you know that.
I can imagine your astonishment at the carnage, particularly the mast post being cut.
I would be aghast also at the wrecking of a fine ship like that.

It sounds like he needs "sectioned" as we say in the UK.
He needs to be taken in for his own care and safety.


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## mkmckn (Feb 15, 2007)

"He is many hours a day in the boat and he talks to him slef alot...sometimes he shouts like there is someone there with him, and normally when he shouts and talks loudly, he is inside and says things like "ahh they are coming"..."they think I can't see them"..."leave me alone"...etc..."
Unless he's on the phone. Or somebody is down there with him. Or the boat's haunted.


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## mkmckn (Feb 15, 2007)

Maybe he has mice on board. If it's like my boat, maybe he has spiders. They think I can't see them. But I can. And they won't leave me alone.
He very well might be crazy, but to diagnose that from a one-sided conversation heard through a boat hull is just ridiculous.


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## crosseyeddreamer (Dec 3, 2007)

*next door boat decorator*

Are you sure its just not a national inherent trait for Portugese to want to rearrange their boats. Change the floor plan around a little?Maybe cut a few windows here and there? Every once in a while make two short mast instead of one?Replace the quarter berths with tin foil? There toward the end it worked pretty well for Howard Hughs............................................


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

Having some experience with "unstable" individuals, I agree with the professionals that have weighed in. 
Deductive reasoning, logical progression, cognitive thought, personal responsibility, "cause and effect" are concepts that are lost in the brain somewhere. Its not their fault, it just "is". 

Self medicating is a huge problem. Typically, the people are on meds and they feel better and are able to funtion "normally". So then, they stop taking the meds and its a rapid downhill sprial fueled by booze, pills, or any number of other substances. 

The only thing I would caution you about is that sometimes other people will become the "cause" for the concequences of their actions. 

I mean, the fellow at the gas station 2 days ago may be the reason he decided to rip out the cabin. Or the harbor master may have waved using his left hand. There is NO rhyme or logical reason for it at all. 

Just be careful.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

mkmckn said:


> Giu,
> I have to agree with Idiens. It sounds to me like he's a neglected rich kid with a lot of bad ideas. He simply dosen't know what he's doing. He just dosen't know anything at all about boats. He's probably never even been out sailing. I would at least try taking him out sailing and showing him what all the lines do and how important the various components of the boat are. He'll probably wind up listening to you because nobody else has bothered to teach him about these things. If he does start to understand what he's done, then you get to see the look on his face when he realizes what he did to such a beautiful sailboat.
> Take the kid sailing, we all know how powerful that can be. If it dosen't work, then at least you tried. Good luck.


I respectfully disagree with the suggestion that you take him sailing. You need to maintain your present boundaries with this guy. You don't want him expanding his idea of what his territory is. The boat that he has torn apart is not really his, it is his dad's, and look what he has done to it.

I second the idea that you ask the marina owner to make the owner aware of the recent and continuing "modifications" and maybe that will casue the family to take some action.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

mkmckn said:


> Maybe he has mice on board. If it's like my boat, maybe he has spiders. They think I can't see them. But I can. And they won't leave me alone.
> He very well might be crazy, but to diagnose that from a one-sided conversation heard through a boat hull is just ridiculous.


Respectfully, I do not find it "ridiculous" to reach certain conclusions. It is not just the "one-sided converstation," it is his actions that draw a very vivid picture. And I, for one, feel like I have heard enough to draw a conclusion.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

I draw conclusions and make a judgement of what action to take from a combination of what I KNOW and what is LIKELY from evidence.
You KNOW he is doing things to his father's boat that MAY or MAY NOT be sancioned by his father but Probably not.
He MAY be on drugs, nuts, or just weird.
He is polite.

Conclusion of action....Call his father or call his father... or call his father.
pigslo


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

pigslo said:


> I draw conclusions and make a judgement of what action to take from a combination of what I KNOW and what is LIKELY from evidence.
> You KNOW he is doing things to his father's boat that MAY or MAY NOT be sancioned by his father but Probably not.
> He MAY be on drugs, nuts, or just weird.
> He is polite.
> ...


Agreed. But if you can have the yard manager or someone like that do it under some official pretense, even better.

On two occasions, I have had some personal involvement with attempting to get a schizophrenic help. In one of those cases, I became the person's new best friend, and he started showing up at my office unannounced. It is sometimes better to do this stuff from a distance.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

CBinRI said:


> It is sometimes better to do this stuff from a distance.


Not sometimes .................. almost always.

And I agree 110% with THIS ........


> maintain your present boundaries with this guy. You don't want him expanding his idea of what his territory is.


That is exceptionally well stated, about inadvertently expanding his radius of familiarity.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Maybe they weren't cooking a batch of meth but were experimenting around after reading "The Anarchist's Cookbook" - enough people have gone on to a different place after using the book as a source. I like the story about making their own high explosives and using a steel mortar & pestle instead of bronze/copper one. I'm not entirely innocent in that arena; I managed to blow a thin solid steel rod through a good 1 inch of concrete ceiling. Luckily, I could plug that hole before the rains hit  

Nowadays when an SAU does a raid on a suspected lab they not only have their full protective gear on but a HazMat suit with enclosed breathing but they would prefer full firefighter gear since one spark could trigger an explosion.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

Hello Gui. Do you have photos of this boat yet to post? I also agree the dude sounds a lot like a meth addict, but who really knows. Most cases of drug abusers are never one dimensional. the truth is he has probably ingested/injected/snorted every substance he could find and afford or acquire. Friends of ours, from our old marina had a 20 year old son do so much meth, he reduced his mental capacity to an 11 year old. Doctors have told the parents there will be no hope for him to regain his mental functions. The father gives the boy $20 a day to buy cigarets and junk food to keep him happy and has maintained him at this level for 4 years now with no increase in violence or mental ability. In the beginning they tried to boot him out of the house and he would steal cars and rob houses. He was still doing every drug he could get his hands on and finally fried enough of his brain to become harmless. Very sad but true.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

Sorry "Giu"


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

With a neighbor like that, we now know why you go off shore so much.


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## lauri (Oct 6, 2003)

This kids got classic bi-polar or schizophrenia type symptoms. Feel very very sorry for him. These are especially cruel and deceptive illnesses for which they have very little if any control over. He is living a hell you and I will hopefully never see, let alone understand.

That said, he's probably dangerous. To himself, to you and others. Move the d**n boat and say many thanks for your blessings.


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## stu9000 (May 23, 2008)

Whether he is ill or on drugs or both he is inherently unpredictable.
DONT get too close.

I hope you get a chance to speak to his Father. None of us here are heartless, and i detect a reluctance to invade a rather sad confused boys world. 

Didnt you say his Father bought the boat and left it for 3 years. Not a great sign. And this lad sounds ill. Surely he must know. Still, a call to Dad covers all the issues and is the safest option in my view.

The brothers pretty "weird" too? No Mum? 
Its sad to see someone in that kind of hole.


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## NauticalFishwife (Dec 12, 2007)

He is mentally ill. Probably paranoid schizophrenia and more than likely he might be under medication which assists him in being functional. You said he does manage to get to the boat and back. And he does communicate with you. If he is at risk of harming himself or someone else, and it appears he might simply from lack of knowledge and judgement, you should bring it to someones attention. We had a neighbor once who always covered his windows with aluminum foil to keep out the bad rays sent from the people who lived in space. He heard voices, but they seemed to be kind ones and was a very nice person and actually productive when he stayed on his medication. But he always lived in a very happy world! Good luck and bless you for offering him your kindness.


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## igpetersen (Jan 10, 2008)

Here in Washington we could hospitalize him. The three corner stones, besides a discernable mental illness, are "danger to self", "danger to others", and "property damage". He certainly seems to qualify for property damage. I am certainly not licensed in Portugal and the civil commitment laws are undoubtably different, but as a Mental Health Professional here, I would look long and hard at your neighbor to see if there wasn't more that could be done to stabilize his behavior.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This guy is mentally ill. Meth addicts have different symptoms and are not usually so antisocial. A meth addict would more likely not leave you alone. 

He is most likely harmless (beyond doing something to sink or burn his boat). He seems pretty detached since he never remembers you so I wouldn't worry too much about talking to him every now and then. I would simply give him a little advice about the boat as you did about the radio. 

He may be getting mental help and be on medication for all we know. His father most likely cares less about what his son is doing or he would already know about it. If he could direct his energy in a more productive way he might not completely destroy his boat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

ELOC...welcome...do you realize the story is 8 months old?


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

Gui.....Since this was brought up from 8 months ago and I spent the past 20 minutes reading this thread...I gotta ask. What ever happened? Did you call the Dad? Did the kid move out? Did the boat sink? what was the outcome?
Thx


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## WheresTheBrakes (Sep 29, 2008)

yeah, gotta know.. 
i spent the 20mins reading it too...
What Happened ?????


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Same here!.........It's like seeing a movie and the cable getting shut off in the last few minutes.......

What gives Alex?


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

Same here!


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Yes Ok, me to. Please GUUI can we gat an update.


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

I noticed the date bur I went through it too waiting to see the pictures.
Oh well.


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## Coldwater (Aug 19, 2008)

8 months or not, we need "The Rest of The Story."


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

guys....

There is episode 2, 3 and the final episode...4!!

Check episode 2 here

and 3

Final episode...4

but the thing is..it weird..he disappeared...

He still pays the marina, and last summer called a yard to paint his hull, and no one has seen him since the summer...

He is gone...

The boat??

Well, it sits there 4 inches above the water line, the rudder 1 foot off the water the bow down, as he removed the weight from behind...the sails are gone, so is the pedestal, wheel, controls, electronics. everything is gone...

Just an empty hull and a mast sit there now..

me???

I am 4 boats away from him...just in case


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I don't know what Giu is attempting to put over on all of you. It's common knowledge that the young man actually showed some previously hidden mechanical aptitude and that he now works maintaining Giu's stable of racing Ferrari's. I hear he lives over the garage.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

That boy's father is an utter moron.

Jim


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

unbelievable.................


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Darn it, I think it just took me longer than 20 minutes to read it all. Hope it worked out. And since Gui is still around, this could be one of those rare times, with an old thread, that we find out what happened.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

When you say boy, are you talking about Fred? 


SEMIJim said:


> That boy's father is an utter moron.
> 
> Jim


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> When you say boy, are you talking about Fred?


*BAD DAWG, BAD.*

But funny.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Bene505 said:


> Darn it, I think it just took me longer than 20 minutes to read it all. Hope it worked out. And since Gui is still around, this could be one of those rare times, with an old thread, that we find out what happened.


Bene,

Did you see Gui's post 82 above?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sorry, I couldn't resist, and SemiJim's post was a bit vague...so asking for clarification is a good thing, right??


denby said:


> *BAD DAWG, BAD.*
> 
> But funny.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> When you say boy, are you talking about Fred?


Go pee on a car's wheel...mutt....


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Sorry, I couldn't resist, and SemiJim's post was a bit vague...so asking for clarification is a good thing, right??


In this case, NO.


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## Coldwater (Aug 19, 2008)

Wow, that was a lot of entertainment on so many levels.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Coldwater said:


> Wow, that was a lot of entertainment on so many levels.


You just getting around to reading this thread? We do our best to accommodate.


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## Coldwater (Aug 19, 2008)

denby said:


> You just getting around to reading this thread? We do our best to accommodate.


AKA - Life outside of sailnet.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Also just got around to reading it myself, including the various sequels....
OMG!!

Damn I do need to find a new marina, At my marina i'm surrounded by Bob and Betty Bavaria retiree couples. The most exciting thing that happens is when Betty spills her Chardonnay on the cockpit cushions.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Coldwater said:


> AKA - Life outside of sailnet.


Life outside of Sailnet? What's that?


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