# Size & Type: Dock lines vs. Mooring lines



## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi All,
I'm just about complete on my purchase of this Contessa 26 and I noticed that every last one of the previous owner's mooring lines as well as their docking lines are about to fall apart; Not one will I trust to keep the boat secured.

So...
My home yacht club requires a minimum of 5/8" lines with thimbles and then to chain to moor against the dock. That's fine. I am able to splice my own 3-strand nylon lines but am wondering if there is a better choice.

Before I reach my home yacht club, we'll be cruising for 3+ weeks, bouncing between yacht clubs, marinas and anchoring in the great lakes. I plan to buy a set of dock lines and am wondering what the length, size and type of line will work best. Keep in mind, this is a heavy, yet tiny, cruiser so I want to keep enough line to give me enough contingency but not fill all the lockers with line. Will 1/2" 6900-8500lbs line suffice? I prefer handling braid but I think 3-strand might be easier to cut/splice etc.

Since I'm replacing so much line at once, does it make sense to buy a bulk spool that can be used for mooring lines, docking lines and maybe get some mileage for extra anchor line?


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Double Braid*

5/8 is plenty for your boat. Since your home marina requires it, just get it. I would get the enough for at least 6 lines total; 2 spring, 2 bow/stern and 2 extra long bow/stern. For lengths, 2x boat length for spring, 1x boat length for bow/stern, and 1.5x for utility lines.

DrB


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## sfchallenger (May 17, 2011)

Hi Jordan, 

I have a 29,500# 40' ketch @ Pier 39 in SF - known for having a lot of surge! I rock 1" three-strand docklines, three strand is really easy to splice, although you may need to retighten them a few days after docking as they have plenty of stretch under load. Two 100' lengths of 5/8" line should be plenty for most mooring situations, it wouldn't hurt to have one at 200' as a primary and a second at 100'. If you can get a great discount on a spool and have a garage to keep it in it is likely worth the money and the time saved on trips back to the chandlery. I like 30' lengths on my dock lines, allows plenty if you need to heave one in a tight jam, but on a vessel your size 20' would likely be enough. I tend to make up 30' lengths with a spliced eye at one end, reasoning that I can swap end for end or repurpose the remnant as a permanent fixed line I leave secured to my dock. 

Many people here use motorcycle tires as snubbers, they seem to last much longer than the cheap rubber jammies available at West Marine you wrap a line around. Also much better than the bungee type snubbers. I've quit buying line at West Marine, I get much better prices and quality from a local chandlery that services commercial fishermen. Frequently remnants can be had for a fraction of the cost of line off the spool. 

Cheers,
h


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

D'oh. I just rechecked the club rules and I misread it. For boats my size it is 1/2" minimum. Well, that settles the size issue.

Thank you guys for the tips on the lengths.

3-strand, I can splice myself, it's cheap, it gives a little.
Any pro's to choosing a braided line (other than it's nicer on the hands)?

I'll likely forego the snuffers if I'm getting space at the club since it's got no surge at all and the docks are floating.

Lastly, quality... What do I look for when determining quality? I assumed 3-strand nylon was more of a commodity product and had intended to buy wherever was least expensive; Now you have me thinking I need to be more selective.


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## sfchallenger (May 17, 2011)

Hi Jordan, 

I'd go with heavier than 1/2" if you can afford it, easier on the hands and a lot of benefit in terms of max breaking strength. To me three strand is preferrable as it is likely to be half the price of braided and much easier to splice. Look for the softest three strand line you can find, what they are selling at W.M. now gets very stiff quite quickly. Snubbers help limit the strain on your anti-chafe gear on the bow and stern and in my view are mandatory on a boat 35' and up, although with my 24' and 27' boats previous to the one I'm on now I never used them. Braided line will stretch less so if you plan to dock your boat and walk away from it for a month or two there may be an advantage there. You could easily befriend someone at the marina however and causually ask that they keep an eye on your boat and tighten up your dock lines as needed. DrB has good advice and I would plan on bowlines, stern, and fore and aft spring lines on both sides of your vessel.

Many folks in my marina use dedicated lines that they fasten permanently to the dock for mooring at home and keep another set of mooring lines either on the bow and stern or in a locker for use visiting other locales. This has the advantage of limiting wear on the lines you are likely to be heaving to a stranger fighting a tide to get into a tight slip or mooring, although it may be something to persue after you have already worn out your first set of docklines and wish to reuse the shorter remnants you now have available.

Cheers,
h


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Thanks h,
Yes, affording it isn't the problem so my top goal is function but less expensive is good as I'd rather spend money elsewhere. Definitely a plus for 3-strand and a minus for braid. I do prefer thinner rope for coiling and takes less space. I'll need to see which thickness works best for the cleats on the bow & stern.

I've been around other people's boats for years and know what I prefer in terms of line arrangements and what I prefer to handle, but I've never had to buy/choose the lines for myself. What you've described was the original plan; Buy 5/8" mooring lines for the club (permanently attached) and 1/2" docking lines to keep onboard. If I don't buy a spool, then I suspect that will continue to be the plan. I definitely prefer handling braided lines but cost and splicing make them less desirable.

Presently the aft locker is jammed with a mash of lines that are too stiff to coil and so shagged I wouldn't use them as a leash for my dog - all of them are bound for a dumpster when I take possession so I'll need lines on day 1.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

Jordan, does your yacht club require the use of 3-strand; or are you using that because it is easier to splice? I ask because double-braid is preferred by most boaters.

Also, in which part of Canada are you based? If on the West Coast or in Ontario, West Marine stores frequently offer seminars on splicing double-braided line. I don't practice enough  , but it is not hard to learn.


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## delite (Nov 2, 2009)

1/2 inch is more than adequate for your boat. The length of bow and stern lines should equal two-thirds of your boat's overall length. Spring lines should be slightly longer, approximately the same length as your boat. Spring lines keep the boat snugly near the dock by preventing it from moving fore or aft, while allowing for the rise and fall of the tide. Keep in mind; the position of cleats on your boat and dock may affect the length of the dockline. I wouldnt bother with the snubbers if using nylon line. You can buy a 20 ft 1/2 inch double braided line for about $15 already professionally spliced


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi SailJunkie,
The club requires 1/2" line. They do not specify type.
The mooring lines must be spliced with a thimble so that they can be connected to chain on the floating docks.

I mentioned 3-strand line because I am already capable of splicing 3-strand, including splicing the thimble into the line. On the other hand, I have never attempted to learn how to splice braided line. 3-strand out of convenience for mooring lines.

I am on Lake Ontario and the boat is presently in Lake Huron; It will be stored either with me on Lake Ontario or perhaps up in Georgian Bay... the jury is still out on that one.  At any rate, thanks for the heads-up on the course through West Marine.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

delite said:


> 1/2 inch is more than adequate for your boat. The length of bow and stern lines should equal two-thirds of your boat's overall length. Spring lines should be slightly longer, approximately the same length as your boat. Spring lines keep the boat snugly near the dock by preventing it from moving fore or aft, while allowing for the rise and fall of the tide. Keep in mind; the position of cleats on your boat and dock may affect the length of the dockline. I wouldnt bother with the snubbers if using nylon line. You can buy a 20 ft 1/2 inch double braided line for about $15 already professionally spliced


Thanks delite. uh... although rise & fall of the tide here in the Great Lakes is minimal.  I appreciate the arrangement suggestions, but the question here is more about the type of line; Braid vs. 3-strand.

Yes, I've seen pre-packaged dock lines at local marine shops. And local marine shops will even splice the thimbles in for me at my request as well. The question is which type of line for which purpose. Prepackaged braid dock lines with custom length 3-strand mooring lines? One spool of 3-strand and then I can cut it all myself and have extra for anchor road? Buy braid and learn to splice it myself?


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## john1066 (Feb 4, 2006)

Three-strand nylon. Springs the length of the boat, bow and stern lines 2/3 length of the boat as a minimum.
1/2" is enough for your boat but 5/8" will give better 'hand'. I'd pick 1/2" because it takes less stowage space, important on a small boat.
Three-strand nylon has good abrasion resistance and tends not to snag. I wouldn't use braid for dock lines because it has limited stretch and is difficult to splice. Can't see the point in using expensive braid and then having to put snubbers in the line to create stretch.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

JordanH said:


> Since I'm replacing so much line at once, does it make sense to buy a bulk spool that can be used for mooring lines, docking lines and maybe get some mileage for extra anchor line?


Yep. I just bought two spools to replace all my lines and have some extra. I prefer three-stand for the extra stretch - a good think in dock lines. The splicing is so easy that you can sit in the club bar and splice. *grin*


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

JordanH said:


> Thanks delite. uh... although rise & fall of the tide here in the Great Lakes is minimal.  I appreciate the arrangement suggestions, but the question here is more about the type of line; Braid vs. 3-strand.


Jordan, I use 3-strand dock lines that I leave on the dock at my slip. I have double-braid that I leave on the boat. For double-braid, I would just keep an eye out for sales at WM or other suppliers. They often have pre-spiced dock lines on sale.

My thought is that, like you, I like handling double-braid more than 3-strand. The lines that I leave on the boat don't get much weather and comparatively little use. They simply need to be strong and easy to use.

The lines that get left on the dock take the weather year round and get the most abuse, hence are replaced more often. Three strand stretches, is less expensive to replace, and I can splice myself.

Dave


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

Jordan
I won't add anything to any of the info given above on sizing and lengths, all very right on the money. but as far a splicing goes it is VERY easy ot do in double braid go to the following web site and teach your self. I have done many splices this way and they work great. Once you do a couple they even look professional.
How to Eye Splice double braid rope

Have a great summer and fair winds
Peter


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Ok, I have my answers. Now to go looking for good deals...

Peter, great! I like working with rope and will add braid splicing to my repertoire soon. I've bookmarked that link, it's a good one. Thanks!


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## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

Don't use that page as a splicing guide. That splice is completely wrong. The strength of an eye splice comes from the bury of the line inside itself. Not from poking the core though the core a bunch of times. All he did was make a huge stress riser where the diameter of the line suddenly shrunk were the splice ended, and sure enough that's where his splice broke.

It's like tying a dozen overhand knots instead of bowline. An overhand knot is weaker than a bowline. A dozen overhand knots doesn't get any stronger, but it does get stupider.

A proper double braid splice can be seen here: YouTube - ‪splicing double braid‬‏
Or in these instructions. http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/DB_C1_EyeSplice_Rev.pdf


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm confused here. You're _mooring _against a _dock_?

Are you docking alongside a dock? Or moored to a ball? Or docking bow/stern in, med style?

I've never heard of thimbles being used or needed in a _docking _line, which is normally cleated off in the US. (I'm probably losing something in the translation, I'm not really fluent in Canadian. (G) )

The purpose of 3-strand docking lines is that they have some natural spring in them, as you pull tight they untwist a bit, acting as a torsion spring for their entire length. A braided line can't and won't do that, making it unsuitable for docking or mooring lines as it will chafe instead of stretching. Sure, they feel smoother and can be used--but they're the wrong line for the job. Wornout halyards, etc. are often the source of braided "docking" lines, just being used a bit longer before they get scrapped.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

To clarify what I'm going on aboot, I use the terms in this way;
I use the term "docking lines" for lines that I use in the process of docking as well as while temporarily attaching myself to a dock. I mean, they are not permanently fixed to the dock.

I use the term "mooring lines" for lines that are permanently attached to where I moor. Although we often think of this as a mooring ball, it is not limited to such. No translation required, "mooring" has the same meaning in the simplified, American English version of the dictionary. (g). In my case, the mooring will be floating docks at the club

A typical practice, and often requirement, at yacht clubs is to permanently attach chain to the docks (or cleats) and then the lines are permanently attached to the chain via a thimble spliced into the mooring line. This provides a strong attachment point with good chafe protection... good for safety, good for club insurance. 

I boil it down to mooring lines stay on the dock, docking lines are kept aboard the boat.


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## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

So your lines don't chafe because they are chain. What keeps your boat from chafing because you're tied to a dock with chain?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

In most of the world, outside the US, tying up to a dock is considered mooring.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Doesn't chain rust given enough time and exposure to the elements?


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

tap said:


> So your lines don't chafe because they are chain. What keeps your boat from chafing because you're tied to a dock with chain?


The lines aren't chain, they are rope. The lines have a thimble spliced into the end of the line - exactly like you'd have on an anchor line - where it connects to the chain. The chain is secured to the dock, the chain is basically just a shackle on the dockside. The free end of the line is then attached to the boat as per normal; Bow, stern or spring line.

We are talking about chafe of the mooring line where it meets the dock so to answer your question specifically, it is the thimble spliced into the end of the line that prevents chafe.



RhythmDoctor said:


> Doesn't chain rust given enough time and exposure to the elements?


Yeah, I suppose it would. Far slower than line chafe and, since we're in Canada, they definitely outlast our sailing season - it's only a few months *sigh*


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## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

Seems like a lot of trouble to have your lines shackled to the dock, if you wanted to take them with you on the boat. Do you put a wire or zip tie through the shackle pin to keep them from unscrewing open?

Do lines have a problem chafing through where they are tied to a dock cleat? My lines seem to get far more wear where they rub something on the boat.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

tap said:


> Seems like a lot of trouble to have your lines shackled to the dock, if you wanted to take them with you on the boat. Do you put a wire or zip tie through the shackle pin to keep them from unscrewing open?
> 
> Do lines have a problem chafing through where they are tied to a dock cleat? My lines seem to get far more wear where they rub something on the boat.


That's the point; You do not take your mooring lines with you - they are permanently attached to the dock for the season. Yes, the shackles are wired as a requirement (and out of good sense).

If you were to permanently attach lines to a dock cleat or bollard for a whole season, they will definitely chafe. How much? I suppose that depends on movement and how much the line works back and forth.


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