# Sailboat for Lake Erie



## zipfactor (Jul 24, 2017)

Hi All,

I'm a newly minted member looking for advice on a suitable sailboat for sailing on Lake Erie. I've never owned a boat period, and have only sailed a few times over 15 years ago.

I'd like to pick up something along the lines of a daysailer in the range of 17 to 22 feet in order to remain trailerable. I've had my eye out for flying Scot's, Interlakes, O'Days, or Rebel sailboats.

I'm thinking a boat this size would be able to handle a little rough weather (maybe 1 to 2 footers) if it happens to kick up while being out. I would certainly remain closed to shore near anchorage in the event of bad weather cropping up. In the future, maybe venturing out around 1/2 mile (if it's realistic),

Do these choices of sailboat seem reasonable for the type of sailing I'm suggesting?


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Where on Lake Erie would you be sailing? I keep my boat in Sandusky Bay on the Western side, and the boats you suggested could do fine in the bay. You would need to keep an eye on the weather though because it can go from 10 knots of wind to 20+ in a pretty short time. Out on the main lake I'd be much more nervous with such a small, lightweight boat. The Catalina 22 has some weight to it, the Catalina 25 even better but is very big for a "trailer-able" boat, takes a long time to raise the mast and launch, and really requires a beefy tow vehicle. In either case, the waves on Erie can pound the heck out of a boat, so a smaller boat would be more sensitive to that.

Good luck with your search.


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## zipfactor (Jul 24, 2017)

I'd be sailing around the Vermillion/Lorain area, so it would be out on the main lake. I have a few smaller inland lakes near me that I kayak now, but they are not very big. I think with a 17' sailboat I'd be constantly turning around, and the depth throughout is questionable for a 3 to 4 ft centerboard. I've kayaked on the main lake with a 16' kayak in 1 to 2 footers, and while it was a bit bouncy it didn't seem terrible. I can understand the concern though as the weather does change very quickly.

My concern is whether a boat the size of a Catalina 22/25 is appropriate to learn on. I have zero experience sailing.

The other thought was to get a sailing rig, such as the one on kayaksailor.com, to learn how to sail on the inland lakes with my kayak. My concern with this route is that the skills won't be as transferrable to a bigger vessel as opposed to learning on a small sailboat.

As of now I doubt I could afford a Catalina 22 or 25, but I would be willing to wait and save if it were a more appropriate boat for the area I'd like to sail (the main lake erie). 

So the choices:

a) Learn to sail on a kayak, save for a larger sailboat
b) Save for a larger sailboat, and learn on it.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Zip, learning to sail is something you can do on a Flying Scott, a Catalina 25, or a Catalina 47. There are challenges with each extreme. I learned on a small boat, Capri 14.2. I had a dock neighbor a year ago who had never sailed a boat before and bought a Beneteau 373 as his first boat. I think the important thing with learning to sail is to read a lot, and take lessons from a professional instructor.

So no, I do not think a Catalina 22 would be too big as your first boat. But even with a Catalina 22 I would advise caution on out on the main lake. Any boat like that will have a transom-hung engine, 4hp to 10 hp; and I speak from experience when I say it doesn't take much chop before the boat is hobby horsing and the running engine is rising out of the water with each wave. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, just reiterating that a keen weather eye can help ensure your sailing experience isn't a poor one.


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## charmlt (Aug 25, 2012)

You will spend much of your time in a very uncomfortable washing machine chop. Watch the weather for squalls and look at your boat like a very small camper. I would not sail Erie in anything less than 26' and a 9' beam. Erie is referred to as "The lake of 10,000 Shipwrecks."


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

IMO - the attach-a-sail-to-a-kayak option is a poor one and should be avoided. You won't learn how to sail on a boat that was designed to paddle.

Catalina 22 is not too big. Smaller boats: Many people sail smaller boats on the ocean. No big deal. Choose your days wiesly, as bshock has mentioned repeatedly.

Best option: Find a sailing club, preferably one that rents sailboats to its members. Take lessons from the club. Often the cost of tuition includes first year of club membership. While checking out different clubs, ask about their racing programs. See if there is a fleet of small, affordable boats. You will find boat ownership and learning to sail more rewarding when you have a community of supportive people who all sail the same model of boat. Don't buy a boat until you've done the lessons and had enough experience on the club's boat to know that you will enjoy sailing. After you buy a sailboat, the work and money drainage begin.


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## joerickard (Aug 26, 2014)

The J/22 is a great sailboat ... Before you buy ... see what one-design fleets the local yacht clubs race. Being part of a fleet will make the experience more fun for you.


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## donlincoln (Feb 23, 2003)

A couple of thoughts. I learned how to sail on Saginaw Bay on an old Rebel 16. Saginaw Bay is very much like Erie, in my opinion. Shallow, sometimes choppy, a long fetch from the west/southwest. It was one of the Ray Greene Rebels, old, maybe a little heavier than more recent versions. Great boat, very forgiving, not too bad in choppy weather. In the early 90's, I even took it on a camp cruise from Alpena to Rogers City in Lake Huron. Some days were gusty in the 20's, and the boat was fine. Pick your weather, learn as you go, you'll be fine. I now sail a Catalina 36 on Lake Erie, and I still sail the same way. Even though my boat can handle rough weather, no one enjoys it. So I pick my weather and sail with caution. I see plenty of small boats out on Lake Erie, including a couple of Lasers just yesterday. 

I agree with what others have said, the kayak is probably not the best learner sailboat. You won't get a good sense of how a sailboat behaves. Plus they overcharge the heck out of you for anything "kayak". You could probably pick up an old sailboat for less than what they'll ding you for a kayak rig.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

An option that hasn't been suggested is to do what I did: buy a smaller boat to learn on and upgrade when you're ready. I started with a Luger Leeward 16', which has a 3.75' draft on its centerboard. It was a blast to sail, allowed me to practice most of the skills I needed, and was inexpensive enough that I feel like I got my money out of it after a single season.

Coincidentally, my Tartan 37 is in Sandusky, and I'm looking to sell my Luger this year. It's in ready to sail condition parked at Moraine State Park (Lake Arthur) in western PA. If you're interested, PM me.

But even if the Luger doesn't appeal to you, consider buying a small boat to sail on small lakes for a season or two, then decide if you want to upgrade. I'm really happy with how that worked out, and I wasn't even planning to sell the Luger this year, but the time investment for the Tartan turned out to be more than I expected. Small boats are a lot of fun and low cost and I can trailer mine with my tiny Subaru Impreza.


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## lightfoot (Dec 11, 2013)

I always favor the most POPULAR boats for a 1st purchase, because, most likely you'll be selling / upgrading in the not to distant future. Popular boats, much like popular cars, are a lot easier & quicker to re - sell.

For that reason, the Catalina 22 (Trailerable, and ramp launchable swing keel model) is an all time favorite for many beginners.
The J-22, has a huge fleet following of knowledgeable owners, especially at the club level. Although pretty easily trailerable, the J-22 isn't really ramp launch able, due to it's fixed keel configuration. That's why it may behove you to get involved with a club that sports a fleet of J-22's. They'll most likely have some type of Jib Crane for launching these boats, and you can easily trailer it home for the winter off season, and save a lot on storage.

Another sweetheart of a boat, and one I've personally owned is the SHARK 24. Originally designed in the late '60's as one of the 1st production fiberglass boats, it was known as the HINTERHOLLER (Shark) 24. Shortly thereafter, George Hinterholler joined the design team at the newly formed C&C Yachts company. They continued to produce the Shark 24, under the C&C brand name.

The nice thing about the Sharks is they're solid laid up fiberglass, with NO wood coring except maybe in a couple of the hatches. Therefore, there's not much to worry about structurally. Yes, the interior bulkheads were wood, and tabbed into the hull for extra strength. And, most of these have suffered from leaks, and rot over the years. But those are easily replaceable on a DIY basis.

Frankly, the hull & deck of the Shark is so strong, I believe you could sail the boat safely without any of the interior wood bulkheads, or bunk stringers. The only caveat to this statement is: the main mast shrouds are attached to the main interior bulkhead.


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## Stridersj77 (Nov 8, 2013)

Try test sailing the fabulous Hobie Adventure Island and/or Hobie Tandem Island. If you like then buy a trailer and live happily ever after.


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## zipfactor (Jul 24, 2017)

donlincoln said:


> A couple of thoughts. I learned how to sail on Saginaw Bay on an old Rebel 16. Saginaw Bay is very much like Erie, in my opinion. Shallow, sometimes choppy, a long fetch from the west/southwest. It was one of the Ray Greene Rebels, old, maybe a little heavier than more recent versions. Great boat, very forgiving, not too bad in choppy weather. In the early 90's, I even took it on a camp cruise from Alpena to Rogers City in Lake Huron. Some days were gusty in the 20's, and the boat was fine. Pick your weather, learn as you go, you'll be fine. I now sail a Catalina 36 on Lake Erie, and I still sail the same way. Even though my boat can handle rough weather, no one enjoys it. So I pick my weather and sail with caution. I see plenty of small boats out on Lake Erie, including a couple of Lasers just yesterday.
> 
> I agree with what others have said, the kayak is probably not the best learner sailboat. You won't get a good sense of how a sailboat behaves. Plus they overcharge the heck out of you for anything "kayak". You could probably pick up an old sailboat for less than what they'll ding you for a kayak rig.


I was leaning towards a Rebel for getting started initially, 70's vintage in very good shape. I see a fleet of (I believe to be) Interlake sailboats go out on Erie and it was in fairly choppy seas. That's what drew me to a smaller boat versus a kayak sail to begin with. I agree, the kayak sails are not the best option as you can get a real small sailboat for less money.

Thanks for the info!


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I think the sailboats you mentioned should be fine, you just need to exercise a fair mount of weather caution on Lake Erie at first with all of those boat options. None have keels and all are tricky to self rescue. 

Once you have the hang of things they'll be fine.


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## KayakerChuck (May 4, 2017)

We just bought an ODay 22 and have been sailing around the west end of Lake Erie. I've had lots of experience in smaller sailboats, my other half has had none. The Oday is easy, forgiving, and non-intimidating for my other half. 

Our boat takes a bit of time to rig & retrieve (it's getting easier/quicker with practice) and sails nicely. As others have said, just watch the weather and the forecast carefully.


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## GT6Racer (Sep 19, 2014)

Hi Eric, 
I'm on the west end of Erie, but faced your decision a couple of years ago. I did have the advantage that I have sailed a lot of small craft, but nothing over 14ft. I considered a Scott and others, what put me off was that the Scott is not recoverable if you go over - no fun if you are not very close to shore. As I sail solo a lot, I further decided that anything that could go over is not a good idea - righting a boat is not big deal on a normal day, but having experienced a popped buoyancy bag on my Enterprise, I appreciate that things can go bad quickly..
After much debate I opted for a Catalina 27 with diesel inboard and tiller helm. Someone earlier in this post noted that this is really the minimum size to feel comfortable on the lake and I'd agree, but it's still small enough to be fun, yet stable and no worries if it blows above 20 knots. With the tiller extension on and lifelines down I can still have a blast hiked over the side, but can also take the family for a cruise on a sunny day. Overnight trips to the Islands are also quite pleasant, as the boat has a nice head and even a small galley. Should the wind drop, I can turn on the diesel to get home. 
This size of boat would have to have a dock, but the advantage there is that I can be on the water in 5 minutes after arriving at the marina, so boat use goes up. A quick sail after work is very feasible and a nice way to end the day.
About docking, with strategy and planning, it is possible even for a new single handed sailor. It'a more scary than difficult, just remember to approach the dock at no more than the speed you want to hit it at.

All in all I'm very happy with my choice. As a bonus, parts for the Catalina are readily available, so maintenance is not a concern.

Good luck with the search...if you do decide on a 27, I'd be happy to help point out what to look for...

Andrew


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## elliowb (Jun 8, 2015)

zipfactor said:


> I was leaning towards a Rebel for getting started initially, 70's vintage in very good shape. I see a fleet of (I believe to be) Interlake sailboats go out on Erie and it was in fairly choppy seas. That's what drew me to a smaller boat versus a kayak sail to begin with. I agree, the kayak sails are not the best option as you can get a real small sailboat for less money.
> 
> Thanks for the info!


I sail out of EYC (Edgewater Yacht Club - Home) in Cleveland and the club has a number of fleets and fairly regular races all summer long. J70s, Jet 14, Dragons, Lasers, 420s, etc... You might look for something like that not only for resale, but also so if you want to do any racing, you'll have a built in network nearby. Just saw a Dragon sailing in a couple of days ago, such a beautiful boat, classic lines.

As others have said, the lake can get a little choppy, but just some prudence and attention are all that's needed.


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## David Chin (Jul 25, 2017)

I think with your limited sailing knowledge, it will be wise to join a sailing club first as a member for a year. You need to learn all the basic knowledge required to control a sail boat. It is very different from a kayak. You may or may not like it; but please don't buy a boat until you are convinced that you like sailing. A 22 foot boat seems too large; perhaps a small planning dinghy like a Laser is more suitable for you.


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## Cincy020 (Mar 19, 2013)

I've only sailed twice on Erie, so take my opinion worth a grain of salt. The boats you mention for Erie seem like they would be a bit to small for me. Those boats are designed have no/small outboards. With the way the weather can whip up on Erie, not to mention wind/sea conditions, I wouldn't want to be left with a 2-4 hp outboard to take on the storm and get back to shore....even if you are a half mile out. 

The Catalina 22 is a fine first boat and is not too big! It sails similar to a dinghy (I thought it was much easier to sail than the daysailer I had before) and isn't too big where docking/launching is really a big issue once you do it once or twice. I would recommend the Catalina 22, or similar boat, as a first boat. Price wise, you can find a decent Catalina 22 for not much more than a decent Flying Scot, Interlake, etc.

Like others said, consider joining a local sailing club or take some sailing lessons. I took ASA 101, 103, and 104 and thought they were a big help with the trickier issues (MOB, safety, anchoring, dealing with weather, docking, etc.) and getting comfortable on a larger boat.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I wouldn't completely rule out a boat like a Hobie Adventure Island. Check out this Hobie AI top speed discussion on Hobie Forums https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7127 Those speeds, if accurate, would make a lot of cruisers with 40 foot sailboats jealous!

I have observed a number of folks have suggested going bigger than your 17-18 foot day sailers.

Another good option is to go a little bit smaller and get a wet sailer. I personally would feel more comfortable on Lake Erie in a decent wet sailor in dirty weather conditions than a lot of small keel boats or non self rescuing day sailors, because if you dump, you can right them quickly and keep right on sailing.

There are lots of options out there, but a good option might be a CL16. They are locally built (Fort Erie) still in productin, there are tons of them out there and they are based on the very capable Wayfarer.

CL 16 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Or a little smaller a Laser 2 makes a great day sailor.

LASER 2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I have sailed quite a bit on Lake Erie and am familiar with conditions, but my first sailboat was a wet sailer called a Fireball that I sailed on the exposed eastern shore of Lake Huron (Goderich) which is at least as rough as Loraine. The boat could easily handle most conditions, I carried no out board, didn't need one because the boat was so fast under sail.


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## zipfactor (Jul 24, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I think a smaller daysailer would be the wise choice with having the ability to right it, unlike the behemoth Flying Scot which seems nearly impossible to right without a power boat.

For the price of a small boat I can see how much I enjoy sailing and come out around the same price (for two people) as taking a sailing class. If I don't like it, sell it off and recoup some of the money, which I couldn't do with taking classes. Or sell it off for a bigger sailboat







.


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Sounds like a plan, Zip; best of luck, have fun, wear your life vest, and let us know how it goes.  Sounds to me like you're going to have a blast!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Yea, start small is fine. Erie is great, I used to sail out of Catawba Island. Great destinations like Put in Bay, Bass Islands so you might not want to stay too small for very long. I would look for something with enough of a cabin to do some camping in. Makes it more fun when you can go out for entire weekends and not worry about having to go back home at night. Does not have to be a palace but someplace to sleep and cook. Good sailing there for sure, just too bad the season is so short!


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