# Alden Caravelle



## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Looking for information, opinions, advice, experiences re: Alden Caravelle.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

Hello,
Not much information out there on these boats. Five were built in Maine by the Hodgons yard and 13 in Denmark that were layed up by Halmatic and mostly finished by Molich but I think a couple other yards also finished them.

I can tell you that they are built like a battleship and are of a high quality build.


Are you considering purchasing one? The one listed on Yachtworld is an absolute gem.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Beautiful...*

Beautiful boats and built like tanks. Sensu is the last one built and is all glass. She is stunning..


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Yes, I am seriously considering the boat listed, but wanted to get more info (build quality, sailing perf, etc). Expect similar characteristic to a B40. Plan to use her for extensive cruising from the east coast to the Bahamas and Carribean.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

Caravelle listed is a beautiful boat but the price seems very high to me. There was a nice one in Florida awhile ago at about half the price. For the asking price of $195,000 you could buy a very nice B40. Resale value of B40 would probably be better. B40 is a bit beamier and shallower draft with board up for cruising Bahamas,etc. Just my biased opinion.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

Well, I may be a bit biased too. I just purchased one of the Hodgdon built boats. I didn't pay what they are asking for the boat listed but the one listed looks like it is museum quality.

I remember the Florida boat and it had the stepped cabin house that doesn't have as nice of lines. (in my opinion)

I suspect they are a much better performer than the B-40, probably more similar to the Hinckley 41. If you like this style of boat and don't need the shallow draft of the centerboarder I would recommend either the Caravelle or a Hinckley 41. Of those two I chose the Caravelle. If I found a Hinckley competition 41 I may have gone another direction.

Good Luck!


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Sharedwatch, I am quite interested in your comments re: performance similar to the C41, in that I have recently sailed a beatifully restored 41 and was quite impressed. Strickly by the numbers I did not expect that of the Caravelle (although I may not have the sail area properly figured into my calculations). Since you are an owner, I would like to know more about your experiences (both sailing performance and maintenance aspects) with her. Thx in advance.


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## jimmalkin (Jun 1, 2004)

Sailed on one in the Caribbean in the early '70s. A lovely boat, great lines, nice interior. My recollection is that she was a good sailor on a reach but tended to hobbyhorse close hauled in a moderate headsea. Also - but you know this - that's a lot of bright work to maintain in the Bahama and Caribbean sunlight. In comparison to the B40s on which I've sailed, the Alden seemed quicker. Also - I suspect that on a comparable boat for boat basis, the Alden would be better value for your purchase dollars. (also true on your sale date - but you've got less money into the adventure...so you can pay for maintenance, upgrades and fun boat stuff.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

jimmalkin said:


> Sailed on one in the Caribbean in the early '70s. A lovely boat, great lines, nice interior. My recollection is that she was a good sailor on a reach but tended to hobbyhorse close hauled in a moderate headsea. Also - but you know this - that's a lot of bright work to maintain in the Bahama and Caribbean sunlight. In comparison to the B40s on which I've sailed, the Alden seemed quicker. Also - I suspect that on a comparable boat for boat basis, the Alden would be better value for your purchase dollars. (also true on your sale date - but you've got less money into the adventure...so you can pay for maintenance, upgrades and fun boat stuff.


The Alden C41 is a beautiful boat. Don't know if its any faster than the B40 on a reach. Going to weather it probably is. Not all B40s were created equal in relation to performance. The Mark III has a mast height 6 1/2 ft higher than the original Custom B40 and is 1000 lbs heavier in displacement. I own a Mark III sloop which I modified further. She has a carbon spar 4 1/2 ft higher than that of the original Mark III rig and probably about 200 lbs lighter as the original mast had a furling main sail. The new rig is about the same as that on a SW42 and she now carries about 8% more sail area than the original Mark III sloop. Made a great difference in the performance of the boat.
I really like your Passport 50.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> Well, I may be a bit biased too. I just purchased one of the Hodgdon built boats. I didn't pay what they are asking for the boat listed but the one listed looks like it is museum quality.
> 
> I remember the Florida boat and it had the stepped cabin house that doesn't have as nice of lines. (in my opinion)
> 
> ...


You could probably buy an Alden 44 for less money than the Caravelle listed. Less draft with board up for Bahamas, less brightwork to look after, and very good performance. Not as pretty as the Caravelle. 
There is a nice Hinckley 41 on the market that has been refit with a cabon spar. Price is in the $135,000 range I believe. Probably a lot less room below than the Caravelle.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

DryMartini,

I am not an expert yet. I just bought the boat in November. I have crawled all over her and can attest to the build quality. I really like the design. I've got a lot of sailing experience with an Alberg 37 yawl that has similar hull shape and lines. ...but a proportionally taller rig. The Caravelle's rig is a bit squatty with a low aspect main and a large J dimension. I think but am not sure that the mast on the yawls finished in Denmark like yours may be bit further forward and thus a smaller 'J'. 

I would love to put a carbon spar on her and add some sail area like Permac has done with his B-40. ...maybe later $$$

At any rate, I think by the numbers the Caravelle's rig is a bit more powerful than a standard Hinckley 41. The competition model is a bit taller but not much and also has a much different underbody with I believe a spade rudder. The Hinckley 41C will likely out point the Caravelle. I have a friend that owns a Hinckley 41 standard model and it is a great sailing boat. I hope that the Caravelle is better! 

As far as room down below, I doubt that the Caravelle is much bigger than a H-41. At least it doesn't feel any bigger. Quite possibly there is more storage and a larger anchor locker. I have found that for a family of four the Caravelle is about perfect. The v-birth is very roomy as is the H-41 and the births in the main salon are each 6'6". The one for sale is laid out a bit differently in that mine has the settee/pilot birth arrangement and the ice-box doubles as a stand up nav station. 

Whoever made the comment about hobby horsing is somewhat correct. It is not a problem unless the wavelength is either short or steep. In big seas with a reasonable wavelength these types of boats are alot of fun! 

I thought long and hard before buying this boat and for the price I was looking at the only two I was going to consider was the H-41 or Caravelle.

Again,
Good Luck.


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Thx for all the input. Good to hear from a few different perspectives. 

My personal view, in order of importance is seaworthyness and looks (both of which all the boats mentioned score exceptionally high in my book). Of secondary concern is performance (my racing days are quickly fading). Basically, it's great to get there, but the beauty is in the journey and how you feel about your ride. Last on the list is cost (don't misunderstand, no bottomless pit here, but +/- 100k will not affect my decision.

All said, it will come down to how I feel aboard. There is a very nice late-model B40 out there, and yes I saw the B41 (not too impressed with what they did with the spars). There are also several like-aged (1960s) B40s available in the Northeast. The prospect of selection is daunting. Likelyhood is I'll own one of the above next season. Can't wait to find out which one.

Thx again, and love to hear more comments.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

drymartini said:


> Thx for all the input. Good to hear from a few different perspectives.
> 
> My personal view, in order of importance is seaworthyness and looks (both of which all the boats mentioned score exceptionally high in my book). Of secondary concern is performance (my racing days are quickly fading). Basically, it's great to get there, but the beauty is in the journey and how you feel about your ride. Last on the list is cost (don't misunderstand, no bottomless pit here, but +/- 100k will not affect my decision.
> 
> ...


I looked at the Hinckley 41's. They don't have a lot more room than the Pilot 35. I owned a Pilot for 10 years. If you look at a B40, the newer dinette models with nav station work quite well for cruising.


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Actually, the late model (1988 sloop) B40 for sale is of that configuration. Your's (as pictured) is sweet. Got to love the lines of these boats! When was she built? Interested in the extent of her refit.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

WOW Tall stick for that boat.

I would love to hear how she compares with the old rig. 

What is your typical sail inventory? What size headsail do you carry?

I suspect you don't have to run with as much overlapping headsail as with you would with a shorter rig.

Did you do the C/F spar on the Pilot?

I imagine that with the weight reduction aloft and extra sail area it really brings these old boats to life.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

drymartini said:


> Actually, the late model (1988 sloop) B40 for sale is of that configuration. Your's (as pictured) is sweet. Got to love the lines of these boats! When was she built? Interested in the extent of her refit.


Thanks for the comments. She's a 1976. African mahogany interior with dinette/nav station layout.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> WOW Tall stick for that boat.
> 
> I would love to hear how she compares with the old rig.
> 
> ...


My Pilot 35 had a carbon spar which had been installed by the previous and original owner. She was the first Pilot to be refit with carbon and the mast was built in 1993. The stick on the Pilot was 1 1/2 ft higher than the original. She sailed very well.
We decided to buy a larger boat when I retired to do some extended cruising. Bought the B40 sloop and at the time she had a fairly new Selden furling main. I hated it. The main had no roach at all and was very small. Performance suffered because of it. Decided to go carbon again. Spent a lot of time looking at the sail plan,weight of the original rig,etc and came up with the configuration that I have. I was originally going to go 2 ft higher on the rig but after consulting with Bob Perry and my sail maker, I decided to go 4 1/2 ft higher. The original spar with the furling main was probably close to 400 lbs. The new spar was 160 lbs before it was rigged. New spar is a double spreader rig vs original single spreaders on the old mast. The new spreaders and mast head are carbon.
She now has a full batten high aspect main with two reefs and a high cut 130 genoa. Total sail area is 800 sq. ft. which is about 8% more sail area than the original rig. 
The first time I sailed her with the new rig I knew that we had nailed it. What a difference. Much better in light air and stiffer than the old rig in heavy air. She goes to weather much better and she's a train on a reach. She's a much different boat.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Petmac,

I am very intruiged by the tall stick on your B-40. I find myself wondering if you have to reef earlier with the increased sail area or does the reduced weight make that much of a differnece. I don't know what the spar section of the new caravelle weighs but it is very beefy. I like that you didn't got with a fractional rig either. It looks fo much better with the masthead rig.

If I could figure out how to post a pic of the Caravelle and it's rig I would...


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> Hey Petmac,
> 
> I am very intruiged by the tall stick on your B-40. I find myself wondering if you have to reef earlier with the increased sail area or does the reduced weight make that much of a differnece. I don't know what the spar section of the new caravelle weighs but it is very beefy. I like that you didn't got with a fractional rig either. It looks fo much better with the masthead rig.
> 
> If I could figure out how to post a pic of the Caravelle and it's rig I would...


I reef later than I did with the furling main. The reduced weight aloft is probably around 200 lbs and so its like adding 1500 or 2000 lbs of ballast from my understanding. The windage is a lot less as well as the mast section is quite a bit smaller. (in depth). The spar manufacturer suggested fractional,but I refused. The B40 was undercanvassed to begin with. My sailmaker wanted me to sweep the spreaders and go with a smaller headsail with inboard tracks. Didn't want that either. Believe it or not, I seldom have to reef the main. Usually reef the genoa. I've tested her in some pretty extreme conditions. As a good sailing buddy of mine would say "she's no toy".
The boat is very well balanced and weather helm is not a problem.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> Hey Petmac,
> 
> I am very intruiged by the tall stick on your B-40. I find myself wondering if you have to reef earlier with the increased sail area or does the reduced weight make that much of a differnece. I don't know what the spar section of the new caravelle weighs but it is very beefy. I like that you didn't got with a fractional rig either. It looks fo much better with the masthead rig.
> 
> If I could figure out how to post a pic of the Caravelle and it's rig I would...


Hey Sharedwatch,
Is this the Caravelle that you bought ?


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

That's her. She's number 3 of the 5 built by Hodgdon Bros.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

petmac said:


> it or not, I seldom have to reef the main. Usually reef the genoa. I've tested her in some pretty extreme conditions. As a good sailing buddy of mine would say *"she's no toy".*
> The boat is very well balanced and weather helm is not a problem.
> 
> ...she's quite stunning. The rig looks purposeful and like it should have always been that way.
> ...


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> That's her. She's number 3 of the 5 built by Hodgdon Bros.


Love that boat. Nice interior. Saw her listed on Yachtworld.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks. She's a keeper but is going to take some time, money and a little effort to make her mine. I'm actually looking forward to it.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

sharedwatch said:


> petmac said:
> 
> 
> > it or not, I seldom have to reef the main. Usually reef the genoa. I've tested her in some pretty extreme conditions. As a good sailing buddy of mine would say *"she's no toy".*
> ...


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Sharedwatch, if I buy the Caravelle listed I'd like to hear more about your restoration project as it unfolds. Have you found anyone else with one? These boats are classics (ditto the B40) and well worth the time and effort.


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## achanler (Apr 22, 2009)

I grew up sailing on a Caravelle and love it. My family's Caravelle was built in 1965. We moved the main sheet to the top of the cabin and have an in-mast roller furling main. We also removed the port side upper bunk in the main cabin to make it so that the lower port bunk is always full size without needing to be pulled out and then we put an extra food cabinet and book shelf in the extra space behind the lower bunk.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

I noticed the Caravelle has been sold. Wondering if "Dry Martini" bought it.


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Guilty as charged... take the helm next week and sailing to the Great Lakes for the summer, then down to Charleston, SC (home). From there we'll see...


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

Congratulations she's a beauty for sure! - just put some miles on mine making the 1400 nM trip from Puerto Rico. You will find her to be a very capable sea boat and a joy to sail. 

Best of Luck with her.

JZ


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Thx SW... love to learn more about your trip... things like nm/day, behavior in various conditions, seaway motion, handling under power...etc... when you get a chance.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

sent you a p.m. with my email. 

we can talk off-line if you like. ...next week or over the weekend or something.

JZ


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## FrancoC (Feb 17, 2009)

What is a B40?


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## drymartini (Nov 24, 2008)

Bermuda 40, by Hinckley in SW Harbor.


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## sharedwatch (Aug 9, 2008)

achanler said:


> I grew up sailing on a Caravelle and love it. My family's Caravelle was built in 1965. We moved the main sheet to the top of the cabin and have an in-mast roller furling main. We also removed the port side upper bunk in the main cabin to make it so that the lower port bunk is always full size without needing to be pulled out and then we put an extra food cabinet and book shelf in the extra space behind the lower bunk.


--achanler, I stumbled across the utube video of your Caravelle. Looked like fun sailing on a fine old boat.

Cheers,


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