# Rigid Vang vs Topping Lift



## jarcher (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi All, I am thinking og getting a rigid vang and removing my topping lift, but I'm not sure if I should. With no topping lift tension I know just how to trim the sail to flatten it. I let the topping lift off.

But I think a rigid vang always pushes the boom up. Does this complicate adjusting the twist of the main sail with the main sheet upwind?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

There's a difference between the various rigid vangs - some continuously support the boom with springs etc, other's "latch" into support mode and can be released while sailing.

Go for it.. sailing without a topping lift flopping around and chafing the leech of the main is great. Those that constantly push upwards cause a bit more load on your mainsheet and/or vang adjustment but you have total control of boom height regardless of wind strength.

Ours engages and releases and so does not support the boom while sailing unless we lock it... it's a bit of a pain, we have to free it to have vanging capability and re-engage it before dropping the sail.. but it's still better than deal with a topping lift. We use the halyard to support the boom when not sailing to ease the stress on the vang and get a bit of extra height/clearance in the cockpit.


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi!

In my humble opinion as a 24 foot trimaran sailor the rigid vang has, at least, a couple of disadvantages when compared to a topping lift:

-First and most importantly the topping lift, if fitted with proper gauge line, can double as a halyard in case of an emergency. In fact mine has done just that in a couple of ocasions and I´ve recently upgraded it with exactly the same type of line, shackle and stoppers as in my main halyard. 

-Secondly, the topping lift is a tune up tool like a rigid vang can only dream about being...

-Finally, what´s the point in spending a ton of money in something more expensive, less efficient, less practical an a lot more prone to failure than a system one allready has installed?

Regards!!!

Pedro Cabral
(Portugal. GO F.LOBATO!!!!!!)


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I installed a Garhauer rigid vang on my Catalina 30 last year. The main reason was to eliminate my topping lift.

Problem is, as Faster describes, my vang is held up with springs and is mostly useless as a topping lift.

I will reinstall my topping lift this fall.

The added purchase of the vang is nice, but in hindsight, I wouldn't have done it.

David


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

My boat has a rigid vang. While it does hold the boom up it's not far enough to make it safe or comfortable in the cockpit. I've been using the main halyard to hold the boom higher but it's a bit of a PITA (pain in the after end) to walk the halyard back and forth around the lazy jacks when setting or lowering the main. I intend to add a topping lift.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

pedcab said:


> Hi!
> 
> .....-Finally, what´s the point in spending a ton of money in something more expensive, less efficient, less practical an a lot more prone to failure than a system one allready has installed?
> 
> ...


Yeah, What's the point in spending the money? As an A-1 miser, I use the "Duncan Yo-Yo" for my topping lift adjustment.... 







...UV damage requires their replacement about every five years for about $2.98, but you get two for this price!
Here's my main boom with the topping lift raised while the sail is not in use:







...and hre is the position while under sail:








With my ketch rig I need the whole Yo-Yo, but I guess a captain with a sloop could share.








'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

djodenda said:


> I installed a Garhauer rigid vang on my Catalina 30 last year. The main reason was to eliminate my topping lift.
> 
> Problem is, as Faster describes, my vang is held up with springs and is mostly useless as a topping lift.
> 
> ...


.. but you have to store your main halyard somewhere when not sailing... why not use it as a topping lift when the sail's down? Keeps things simple. I understand the idea of having a 'spare halyard', but not that many toppinglifts, even if rigged appropriately, would be strong enough.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Faster:

You are correct. That's what I do. I use the halyard as a topping lift after I drop the sail...

Two problems with that:

1) It's an extra trip back to secure the halyard to the end of the boom and then tighten the halyard.

2) While I am doing this, (and when I'm raising the sails) the boom is swinging and bouncing on its springs. 

It works, but is a real pain, and potentially unsafe in rough seas.

David


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

Faster said:


> .. but you have to store your main halyard somewhere when not sailing... why not use it as a topping lift when the sail's down? Keeps things simple. *I understand the idea of having a 'spare halyard', but not that many toppinglifts, even if rigged appropriately, would be strong enough*.


Even though I am still considering a rigid Garhauer vang and somewhat agree with Fasters' first post I have to disagree that the topping lift is not strong enough. 
I recently had to replace my mast becaue I put a slight bend in it. I had to remove all harware off the old mast and re-install it on a new mast. I replaced/upgraded a few parts in the process. I put a better halyard bearing pulley block at the top and a sturdier topping lift pulley. I am sure I can hoist the mainsail with the topping lift if I really had to, the line may not be as thick in diameter as the halyard but it would work in a pinch. The mainsail on smaller boats <=30' are not so heavy that a topping lift cannot hoist them, bigger boats perhaps but not smaller ones.
I think I would still retain my topping lift even if I do get the Garhauer rigid vang because I still require the boom to be held up when I drop the main, not sure the rigid vang would hold with just the spring in place, ditto for raising the main, once I unhook the main halyard from the boom as Faster does to hoist the main my boom may fall to the deck or perhaps just fall enough to compress the rigid vang springs so the topping lift would have to remain.
Still, I like the concept of a Garhauer rigid vang, and have not ruled it out yet, when I aquire some mad money I will probably buy it.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I like the Yo-Yo idea.....

I keep playing around with main halyard when not underway but always come back to boom end so if I did have a solid vang I reckon I'd use Fasters method.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

my topping lift was fixed, it is a steel cable from mast top down. the way the sail was cut makes the boom lift when the sail is raised. but my main is pretty stretched out so i modded the topping lift to be adjustable, it has a cam cleat on the end of the boom. my halyards, main sheet and now the topping lift all can be reached from the wheel. the topping lift is at the end of the boom, the main sheet is mid boom, but cabin top with a cam cleat.

i do want to add a vang more for sail control than anything else. if my boat did not have a topping lift, or i wanted to remove it i would rig a line to the back stay to hold the boom up. i would not want a rigid vang from what i have seen


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

We used a Boomkicker on our O'Day 322 for many years. I will not go back to a topping lift.

Also:
The boom was a little too low on our boat for our liking, so I moved the boom upward about 18" or so. I 1st moved the attachment point at the mast, then sent the mainsail off to have 18" cut off the top. Worked great! Could not tell a bit of difference insofar as sailing goes, and that gave us enough room for a stand-up-and-sail bimini.


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

Faster said:


> I understand the idea of having a 'spare halyard', but not that many toppinglifts, even if rigged appropriately, would be strong enough.


Well, at least in Fulô the topping lift is EXACTLY like the main halyard. As a matter of fact if someone strange was to come aboard I'm sure he could't even tell which is which. It has the same gauge of line, it travels through a twin block in the top of the mast and it returns to the same block of stoppers in the cabin roof...

But hey, maybe I'm just being a redundancy maniac 

Anyway, I like to keep failure modes out of Fulô as far as I can, and a mechanical boom vang on a trimaran under heavy weather sailing downwind is just something I sure want to go without.

Regards!


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

At the end of last summer, I installed the Garhauer rigid vang and removed my topping lift. I wanted the topping lift gone because it was always chafing and snagging on my full-roach main, one time preventing me from dropping the sail because of a snag on the sail. Since I installed the rigid vang, the only disadvantage that I see is the "bounce" of the boom when the sail is down and flaked. I will try the halyard trick and that should tension it just like a topping lift. I also thought about cutting a PVC collar that could snap onto the shaft of the vang and act as a compression sleeve keeping the vang in a fixed position.


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## Newport41 (Jun 30, 2006)

Our boat came with a garhauer rigid vang. It's one of the best pieces of equipment on the boat. It is capable of supporting the weight of the boom and sail when the sail is down, it makes reefing far safer and easier, and it provides excellent sail control like any well designed vang. Having said that, if it cost as much as the forespar equivalent I would never endorse it, and I do use the halyard as a topping lift when the sail is down for added stability. Worth every penny. As for the spare main halyard, we a twine halyard in place to pull a spare through if it's needed. I see little reason to have the weight aloft or the spare exposed to the elements.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The rigid vangs are great but they are not topping lifts. Ideally, you will release the vang when alongside in order to minimize wear and tear. THe topping lift is there to hold the boom up.

I am not sure why you would do away with the topping lift, or why you would not have it secured to the mast when sailing. I occasionally see boats with topping lifts attached to the boom ends out on the water, and I invariably think that the skipper must have forgotten to secure it. They can get in the way when you need to reef, and as was mentioned earlier, the constant flapping against the leech is unnecessary wear on the sail.

Good Luck !


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