# Experience with Dream Yacht Charter (owner & guest)?



## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

I am considering a charter management program to finance a boat. Does anyone have experience with Dream Yacht Charter?

Two options seem to be interesting for me:

Dream easy: 35% upfront + 25% balloon payment -> here the question is if I get at least a partial owner's title on the boat? (for the case of insolvency)
Partnership: 55% upfront -> I suppose this one comes with a 1/1 title.

I know this is not the king of investments but 40% value loss over 5 years seems realistic, probably this is the cheapest way to manage ~4weeks/year sailing time.


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## KnottyCanadian (Mar 3, 2017)

Hello,

What are your goals for the boat - charter then sell or take over after?

I just returned from a charter with DYC - people were great. Boat was a 2014 - in terrible shape. Mechanically sound and rigging was good but surface wise she was beat up and not taken care of. I have made a formal 'complaint ' with DYC and still waiting for their reply.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

KnottyCanadian said:


> I just returned from a charter with DYC - people were great. Boat was a 2014 - in terrible shape. Mechanically sound and rigging was good but surface wise she was beat up and not taken care of. I have made a formal 'complaint ' with DYC and still waiting for their reply.


Takeover would be the goal. However, there is litte financial difference between the two, a trashed boat worth little value on the market or in case of takeover you have to get it patched. Do you see a chance to restore your boat to a reasonable quality/could you approximate costs? 2-3 seasons are quite a short time though to wear down a new boat. In which region was it stationed?

Cheers,
Tom


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## KnottyCanadian (Mar 3, 2017)

I was in the BVIs (3 weeks ago) and I was not the boat owner. A refit for her, based on my standards would be a complete interior renovation of cupboards/appliances/flooring/blinds, wiring and control assessment and replacement, deck refurbishing. Hull was scratched up but acceptable. Nav electronics were useless - kept shutting down. The lines were all different sizes/ material and conditon. I was told to run the generator 6-8 hours a day to keep everything charged and run the A/C - if this was done for the past 3 yrs. then those hours really build up on the 'mechanical' side. So cost could be expensive of for the latter component rebuild or replacement.
Charter Company standards for such upkeep will vary I am certain.

I have dealt with Horizon Yacht Charters as well and find them good. I am certain that there are others, but I would visit some boat shows and search the net for previous owner assessments of the companies before stepping in. 

Hope this helps.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Thanks! Owner assessments - especially helping negative feedback is extremely rare to find. Actually for DYC I found some positive feedback so far.

I do not mind e.g. if the sails are worn off after 5 years or the engine needs a standard overhaul do to its hours. But groundings (remember Cheeky Rafiki!), hull/helm/rudder damage of any kind, dead electronics is unacceptable. I'd say I'd accept a "complete blue-water refit" budget of <10% of the boat price (that's pretty much done if you replace the sails, batteries & service the engine).

As for Horizon: they offer Bavarias for monohull, no thanks...


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

just heard about a bigger Bavaria that was bought from charter company. owner had the yard do a complete refit and the generator had to be removed for overhaul. the only way out was through the side of the hull. built like a Motorhome.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

overbored said:


> ... the only way out was through the side of the hull. built like a Motorhome.


Holy crap, no removable deck?


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## cobradvm (Sep 16, 2016)

I just finished up a charter with DYC - with the caveat that I have only done one charter with them, I would will probably never charter with them again, and would never put a boat into charter with them. We were on a 2015 Bali 4.3 - I was interested in it as a possible BVI charter. The boat was only two years old, but was not in great shape - all the cabinetry hardware was ready to be replaced - hinges completely rusted, faucets badly corroded. We also had a problem with cockroaches on the charter which resulted in them fogging the boat after we returned it. Our electronics had nothing but problems - wifi was almost worthless since we were unable to connect to it much of the time. The main chartplotter at the helm froze on a regular basis and had to be rebooted on a regular basis. The sails looked pretty knackered as well, but I don't have a frame of reference if that would be considered typical. The bottom of the boat was in bad need of cleaning - lots of green slime growing on the bottom. One of our heads blocked completely on the trip necessitating two trips out by the repair team and a complete tear down to fix. Fortunately the head belonged to the skipper that was on board, so we weren't the cause of it. 
The skipper that was on board was great but did make the comment that after about 2 years in charter the boats are about done - can't imagine what they look like after 5 years. 

I sent an email outlining my experience to DYC - have to yet to hear back.

There are better charter companies out there then DYC - we are on our second charter with BVI Yacht Charters in a 2016 Helia and the difference is night and day - of course it is a newer boat, and is better designed boat, but I'm sure glad that we got the better yacht as our second charter rather than the first!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Be wary of the tax advantages associated with charter ownership. Most models I've seen show depreciation deductions, which are perfectly legal, but are also critical to make the numbers work. Since the boat will actually depreciate, that portion that represents actual reduction in value is truly a tax advantage. However, tax laws let you keep going, until your tax basis is zero. This means that when you ultimately sell the boat, you will pay taxes on whatever you sell her for. 

On the maintenance side, you want the best show available. Getting a hunk of junk back at the end just has to be a nightmare. It will, however, have accelerated rental wear and tear. It will never look like it was owner sailed.


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