# Who pays for the food and beer?



## obanarama

I've always provided beer, snacks, and sandwiches for my Tuesday night can racing crew. My wife just realized this and says I'm too generous. I say its what every skipper does for his race crew.

Who's right?


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## mgmhead

Have you ever won a 'who's right' fight with your wife?


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## Cruisingdad

obanarama said:


> I've always provided beer, snacks, and sandwiches for my Tuesday night can racing crew. My wife just realized this and says I'm too generous. I say its what every skipper does for his race crew.
> 
> Who's right?


THe capt would provide some beer but we always brought some too and some food for single bouy races. For long distance races (1-2 day), he always provided everything, though we generally brought items of our own. My experience.

Brian


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## miatapaul

I think it really depends on the skill level of your crew. I would love to crew on some races, but since I have no racing experience, I would bring beer/snacks enough for myself and some extra. But if I were an experienced racer, and was grinding the winches and what not it seems only fair that you provide the snacks and refreshments. 

I never won a "who's right," but not stopping may explain my singledom! I sometimes have a hard time learning. But on the positive side I drink mostly quality local brew.

So if your wining races due to an experienced crew it is really quite cheap labor if all you pay is beer and chips!


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## obanarama

mgmhead said:


> Have you ever won a 'who's right' fight with your wife?


Ha! Damn good point.


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## SVAuspicious

Varies a lot from boat to boat and region to region. I grew up with all food and drink provided by the boat. More recently I've seen a shift to boat buying the drinks and crew bring their own food. It really does depend. 

If you are feeding crew you should be getting good crew who are loyal and show up regularly. Help cleaning the boat, hauling sails from storage, Spring prep and Fall lay-up are all reasonable to expect. It's a relationship.

You can save a bit if your wife makes the sandwiches at home. *grin*


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## bljones

obanarama said:


> I've always provided beer, snacks, and sandwiches for my Tuesday night can racing crew. My wife just realized this and says I'm too generous. I say its what every skipper does for his race crew.
> 
> Who's right?


It's not a matter of who is right, it is a matter of peace in the household. Now, you can fold, and alienate a whole crew to satisfy one wife, and start sliding down the slippery slope of the henpeck highway, or you can create peace through Mutually Assured Destruction:
Tell her you just realized how many pairs of shoes she has in her closet, and offer to stop buying sustenance for the crew if she will stop buying shoes.

Then run.


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## Tim R.

Around here captain supplies the boat. Crew provide the beer. What is food?


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## SVAuspicious

treilley said:


> Around here captain supplies the boat. Crew provide the beer. What is food?


You need to sail in longer races.


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## sea_hunter

treilley:900658 said:


> Around here captain supplies the boat. Crew provide the beer. What is food?


I agree. For long haul races Capt. supplies basic food groups and TP. Day race-beer race it's the crews' responsibility for beer and snacks. Any extras provided by crew approved by captain.
It's not like the crew's paying for any rent or upkeep on your boat. You might end up with a few new crew members willing to pitch in to the greater good.


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## smackdaddy

I've crewed offshore races on boats that do it both ways. It's really up to the skipper - and it typically comes down to whether the crew is worth keeping or not.

Personally, I really like the skipper who provides food on the distance races. I'll work my butt off to stay on that boat.


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## hellosailor

rama, if you're racing in LIS, good crew are hard to find and reliable crew much harder to find. Having a rep as a "too generous" captain is just going to help you get and keep better crew, which should translate into better racing.

What's the "right" amount for a birthday present?

And should you break out the good scotch for a bbq or dinner party?

I'd never expect the captain to be the caterer, but I have to admit it _is _nice when that happens.

Too generous is a relative thing, if making the wife happy creates a problem on the boat...well...You pays your money, you takes your chances.


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## Beaverkill

I just started racing this season and my experience is limited to two boats..On 1 boat, the owner/skipper bought beer and food for crew...The crew which I have landed a position, the owner buys the first round of beer, then crew picks up the rest of the rounds.. Everyone is on their own for food..


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## Cruisingdad

I am curious what kind of crew you get when they have to bring all their own food and beer, etc. Its hard to get someone that knows what the heck they are doing and is willing to consistently take the time to race with you. We have designated places on the boat that we perfect and each person runs. That makes them really good at it. Missing a person can really create a big hole not easily filled.

I am no expert on racing. I do it, enjoy it (especially distance races), but it requires a bit of committment. If the capt doesn't even care enough to supply beer and food (however meager... part of the reason I help stock is I can only eat so damn many sandwhiches after a day or two at sea), I wonder where he is placing in the race???

If you take your racing seriously, take your crew seriously. If its just a beer fest and you couldn't care less, well, tell them its a joy sail and to bring their own booze. I am not saying we race quite that serious, we have fun, but Jaysus H... I mean, all the beers for when you get there anyways. If you are drinkin underway, you ain't racing (right). How damn much beer can 5-6 guys drink after the last buoy? Well, nevermind that last comment. The basic point remains though (snicker).

Brian


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## sea_hunter

Cruisingdad:900722 said:


> I am curious what kind of crew you get when they have to bring all their own food and beer, etc. Its hard to get someone that knows what the heck they are doing and is willing to consistently take the time to race with you. We have designated places on the boat that we perfect and each person runs. That makes them really good at it. Missing a person can really create a big hole not easily filled.
> 
> I am no expert on racing. I do it, enjoy it (especially distance races), but it requires a bit of committment. If the capt doesn't even care enough to supply beer and food (however meager... part of the reason I help stock is I can only eat so damn many sandwhiches after a day or two at sea), I wonder where he is placing in the race???
> 
> If you take your racing seriously, take your crew seriously. If its just a beer fest and you couldn't care less, well, tell them its a joy sail and to bring their own booze. I am not saying we race quite that serious, we have fun, but Jaysus H... I mean, all the beers for when you get there anyways. If you are drinkin underway, you ain't racing (right). How damn much beer can 5-6 guys drink after the last buoy? Well, nevermind that last comment. The basic point remains though (snicker).
> 
> Brian


Moderator or (snicker) otherwise; you end up with a crew dedicated to the boat, not to the beer and feed bag. It's a small part of the issue. If you're suggesting that the best sailors do it for the beer, you're way off the mark. They do it for the skipper, however way he-she manages. I'm appalled that a moderator would even suggest such idiocy.


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## PalmettoSailor

I don't race my boat lot and only in one or two distance races a year. Usually I've asked the crew to bring a few things and give a list so I don't end up with provisions for a month at sea. I provided all the food and most of the beverages and my wife does duty as sea cook. I've also sprung for shoreside accomodations for the crew to get a nights sleep before heading home.

That was in the past. This year, my financial position has significnatly eroded and is certain to get worse for the foreseeable future. In the next 20 minutes I'll be sending a message to my crew for the biggest race I'll do this year, that I simply cannot do as much as I did last year. We'll see if I'm posting for new crew tomorrow.


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## Ajax_MD

Wednesday nights:

I've been providing beer, ice, soda and chips. After a while, some of my crew decided on their own, that it would be fair to contribute, so they do.

Distance races and practice days:

I provide a 2-foot sub (or two), and ice. The crew brings whatever drinks and snacks they feel like having. If it's an overnight race, I'll also provide breakfast.
When the weather was cooler, I whipped up omelettes, bacon, coffee and toast.
Now that the weather is hotter than six hells, it's been hard boiled eggs and iced coffee.

With one exception (whom I fired), my crew has been very appreciative of my generosity, and has started kicking in more for food and beverages as they began to realize that not only was I feeding and equipping them, but that I was also pouring money into my boat to improve it for them.

I won't let 'em pay for any boat material though. That's my domain and I won't let anyone have a financial stake in the boat itself.


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## svHyLyte

Whenever I sailed as crew, and later when I actively raced my own boat, the practice was:

On beer-can and single day races the skippper provided the beer, soda and snacks (never-the-less, most of the crew seemed to bring along a 6-pack of their own and at the end of the season we had to unload a sizable amount of "moveable ballast" in the form of unused 6-packs). Following the races the skipper usually paid for dinner, although in those daze that was usually $1 a piece hot-dogs or hamburgers; _and_,

One long distance races, the skipper usually provided sodas, water and snacks and at least one good meal a day, usually dinner, plus dinner and drinks for all the night before the start (to moderate that number of pre-race drinks) and dinner and drinks once the race was done. Each crew normally contributed their proportionate share of meals for the race itself, or their proportionate share of the costs of provisioning, plus, again, the amount of beer or wine each person thought they might consume--plus enough for one other crew--keeping in mind that ours were "dry" boats--i.e., for safety sake, when off soundings, we limited ourselves to one beer or glass of wine with snacks before dinner (sun downers) and a second, only, with dinner itself.

The big deal wasn't beer or wine, or even food, but "treats". Cookies and snack-cakes/pies and like and one-bite candies (Snicker's mini's etc.). Four daze into a race and short on "treats" some guys would trade a watch for a couple of Snickers mini's (if the watch commander would permit it). We always carried a hidden stash of Snickers, Hershey's Kisses, and the like and usually a chocolate cake and a bottle of bubbly for the night before a finish. Even if we didn't win, show or place, we were pleased with the effort.

FWIW...


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## djodenda

We casually buoy race. I provide drinks (including good beer) and light supper. It doesn't cost much, and I am happy to host. Sometimes the extra beer goes to Blt2ski's crew. They seem to go through it a bit faster than we do..


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## Cruisingdad

sea_hunter said:


> Moderator or (snicker) otherwise; you end up with a crew dedicated to the boat, not to the beer and feed bag. It's a small part of the issue. If you're suggesting that the best sailors do it for the beer, you're way off the mark. They do it for the skipper, however way he-she manages. I'm appalled that a moderator would even suggest such idiocy.


For the beer....

BTW, hope everyone realizes that was a lot of tongue and cheek??


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## Cruisingdad

svHyLyte said:


> Whenever I sailed as crew, and later when I actively raced my own boat, the practice was:
> 
> On beer-can and single day races the skippper provided the beer, soda and snacks (never-the-less, most of the crew seemed to bring along a 6-pack of their own and at the end of the season we had to unload a sizable amount of "moveable ballast" in the form of unused 6-packs). Following the races the skipper usually paid for dinner, although in those daze that was usually $1 a piece hot-dogs or hamburgers; _and_,
> 
> One long distance races, the skipper usually provided sodas, water and snacks and at least one good meal a day, usually dinner, plus dinner and drinks for all the night before the start (to moderate that number of pre-race drinks) and dinner and drinks once the race was done. Each crew normally contributed their proportionate share of meals for the race itself, or their proportionate share of the costs of provisioning, plus, again, the amount of beer or wine each person thought they might consume--plus enough for one other crew--keeping in mind that ours were "dry" boats--i.e., for safety sake, when off soundings, we limited ourselves to one beer or glass of wine with snacks before dinner (sun downers) and a second, only, with dinner itself.
> 
> The big deal wasn't beer or wine, or even food, but "treats". Cookies and snack-cakes/pies and like and one-bite candies (Snicker's mini's etc.). Four daze into a race and short on "treats" some guys would trade a watch for a couple of Snickers mini's (if the watch commander would permit it). We always carried a hidden stash of Snickers, Hershey's Kisses, and the like and usually a chocolate cake and a bottle of bubbly for the night before a finish. Even if we didn't win, show or place, we were pleased with the effort.
> 
> FWIW...


What? No plentiful free beer? And you wanted me to do the Vendee with you? Forget it now. I'll just do the Americas Cup instead.

Brian


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## BarryL

Hey,

On the boat I crew on, for Thursday night beer can racing, the owner provides a few subway sandwiches, soda, a few beers, and some chips and cookies. 

The crew does a lot of work getting the ready to race and then putting it away. The owner has a nice boat with good equipment. We try to keep it nice and to sail fast.

Barry


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## SchockT

For buoy racing the vast majority of boats I have raced on the crew brings their own lunches, and most bring some beer, or whatever else they want to drink. most skippers have water, gatorade, chips and some beer on board. I actually prefer to bring my own beer so I don't end up having to drink Bud Lime or some similar swilluke

I certainly don't take it personally if a skipper doesn't supply all of my food and drink, although I do show my appreciation if he does! To me it is not about getting free beer, it is about whether I enjoy racing on that boat with that team.


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## ScottUK

I race as crew and do not expect the skipper to feed me or supply drinks. I figure they spend a lot of money on their boats so I can supply some food and drink and anticipate the other crew will contribute as well.


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## xsboats

Who pays for the beer and food on races depends on how well you sail !


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## ckmeans

I think it's fine for the owner to have some stuff on board...But it's a bit rude of the crew to expect it and they should always bring their own...You wouldn't show up to a party without bringing something right....


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## svHyLyte

Cruisingdad said:


> What? No plentiful free beer? And you wanted me to do the Vendee with you? Forget it now. I'll just do the Americas Cup instead.
> 
> Brian


Brian--

Having seen the effects of a too well "lubricated" crew at the time of an emergency, we were/are very conservative with Alcohol on the yacht while underway, even when just "cruising". More than one prospective crewman has declined (or been declined) when he/she learned of this policy. My wife's cousin, from Chicago, refuses to sail with us because we limit alcohol consumption. Of course, this is the same guy who, with his crew, got so loaded on a race (on Lake Michigan) they ended up in Wisconsin the next morning rather worse for "where" (_SIC_).

I'm sorry you'll be missing the Vendee but I'm sure you'll have a great time at the A/C. From what I understand, the latest Crop of A/C boats are anything but dry!

svHyLyte

_PS: Stopped in St. Pete the other day but couldn't find you. Are you "on the road--or rhode--again?_


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## smackdaddy

"Racing boats" whose crews get drunk during a race are party barges. That's not racing - that's stupidity. The boats I've raced on were not "dry" but had a 1-drink/day max. Even so, none of us had a drop of booze. We have a job to do.

After the finish in South Padre Island, however, I somehow ended up in Wisconsin the next morning.


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## hellosailor

As #2 boat in an overnight series, our clever skipper bought _two _rounds for the #1 boat when they pulled up a table next to ours. Figuring, if he could get them hungover...(G)...all's fair in love and war, right?

But all this discussion would be remiss if not to mention, there are still many YCs that sponsor weeknight racing, where the YC puts out a buffett and cash bar after the races. Skipper has the YC membership, often buys the first round, but the whole crew can join the buffett.


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## johnnyquest37

I'm not a serious racer. We do our local club's Wednesday night series and the occasional day-long or two-day-long race. We also take crew for 2-5 day cruises. I pick up all expenses that I would otherwise pick up if no crew came along - fuel, dockage, entrance fees, etc. I provide ice, some beer, and access to the ship's stores, including booze. Sometimes I'll bring a bucket of chicken or cheese for a Wednesday night race. For "big" events, like the Governors' Cup, I'll also provide shirts and hats with the boat's logo. When we provision, I'll either assign crew responsibility for a certain meal ("Kathy, you make lunch on Saturday. Brian, you have breakfast on Sunday," etc.) and I assign myself a meal as well; or we'll split the provisioning costs and have one designated cook. Our crew nearly always bring beer or a bottle and often bring things to eat, even onr non-provisioned day sails and evening races. Currently, we've got about 9 bottles of assorted spirits aboard since even we can't keep up with the donations to the liquor locker.

What kind of crew do we get? Certainly not professional-grade crew, but we don't have a problem filling the manifest.


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## SVAuspicious

BubbleheadMd said:


> Wednesday nights:
> 
> I've been providing beer, ice, soda and chips. After a while, some of my crew decided on their own, that it would be fair to contribute, so they do.
> 
> Distance races and practice days:
> 
> I provide a 2-foot sub (or two), and ice. The crew brings whatever drinks and snacks they feel like having. If it's an overnight race, I'll also provide breakfast.
> When the weather was cooler, I whipped up omelettes, bacon, coffee and toast.
> Now that the weather is hotter than six hells, it's been hard boiled eggs and iced coffee.
> 
> With one exception (whom I fired), my crew has been very appreciative of my generosity, and has started kicking in more for food and beverages as they began to realize that not only was I feeding and equipping them, but that I was also pouring money into my boat to improve it for them.
> 
> I won't let 'em pay for any boat material though. That's my domain and I won't let anyone have a financial stake in the boat itself.


I think that reflects the relationship you have with your crew. Together you've come up with something that works. Great.

I raced on one particular boat for several years that had a similar kind of evolutionary relationship. The owners realized that they weren't feeding and watering the crew as much as in previous years, the crew was showing up for boat work days, and something else was appropriate to thank the crew. At the end of the season we got nice little (inexpensive) pewter cups with the name of the boat and our big wins. It was great, and the next work day on the boat had a huge turn-out.

In my mind it isn't quid pro quo, it is a _relationship_.



SchockT said:


> I certainly don't take it personally if a skipper doesn't supply all of my food and drink, although I do show my appreciation if he does! To me it is not about getting free beer, it is about whether I enjoy racing on that boat with that team.


Relationship.

On a related note, y'all keep talking about chips. Really? The grease and oil on fingers isn't a problem for you? No issue with slips and stains?


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## Ajax_MD

I typically stock Sun Chips, which have little or no oil in them. We also typically only eat on the motor back in.


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## smackdaddy

It starts as a "transaction". Then it becomes a "relationship" if the transaction works out well.

As for chips - hell yeah!


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## lapworth

There was a thread asking why people think sailors are cheap. Not trying to brake the bank but dam you can buy a 30 pack for $20. There where times Bubble told us not to bring any more because his boat was getting to heavy.


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## GeorgeB

I’ve always thought of sandwiches and beer as a token of appreciation bestowed upon the crew by the skipper. I figure that if the crew were going to give up their Saturdays for me, at least I ought to feed them. When we went to the Nationals, I also sprang for the big dinner – after all, if it wasn’t for them… Putting them all in matching shirts and ball caps is also a token of appreciation and besides, its easier to spot them in the beer tent when we are all sporting our “gang” colors. I suppose that at the entry level, crew might be willing to spring for food and drink just so they could get some experience. But at the level of racing I’m involved with, I don’t expect to get free matching Musto foulies, but I also don’t expect to have to self cater either.


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## zz4gta

I race my own boat and on others. For regular rides I try to pick up the bar tab every now and again. Bring a bottle of booze, or some jerky or chips. I know exactly what the skipper puts into a racing boat, and it's a lot. Does it make a difference in the $10-15k yearly budget? Not even a dent, but I know the skipper appreciates it. 

On my boat, I supply food, drinks and maybe a snack while on the boat. I don't do the small club races, or weeknight racing. For regulars, I'll have tech shirts made and hand those out (like I have any regulars...). 

I believe there is a minimum you should do, then if you win, you should do more. Reward the extra effort. When we won DTB, I went ahead and picked up the hotel room for the crew. Won coastie cup, and bought lunch/drinks for the crew. Seeing as my crew is in their 20's, a bar tab can be $150-250 without much effort. Just part of the game. 

I'm not sure how to get regular crew and keep them. I've tried everything. Food, hotel, booze, clothes, tech gear, new sails, etc. And still, I've never had one crew come out to roll on some new bottom paint. I've even offered to supply the crew with matching spray tops or foulie jackets. I get nothing. Hardest part is to get people to commit who have the same goals you do. Everyone seems to have better things to do.


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Putting them all in matching shirts and ball caps is also a token of appreciation and besides, its easier to spot them in the beer tent when we are all sporting our "gang" colors.


Oh yeah, I remember you guys...


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## GeorgeB

You got a fine looking crew there Smack, but I'll stick with my own boat bunnies for now.


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## CBinRI

obanarama said:


> I've always provided beer, snacks, and sandwiches for my Tuesday night can racing crew. My wife just realized this and says I'm too generous. I say its what every skipper does for his race crew.
> 
> Who's right?


Me too. Food and beer. Or else they might not come next time.


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## Stuff4Toys

I provide SubWay Subs and all the water we can possibly think about drinking. I don't drink alcoholic beverages, so the crew will often bring a few bottles of beer to share on the ride home.


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## rhr1956

I always end up buying the beer. It doesn't matter if we're racing my boat or I'm crewing on another boat. Someone will text me "are you bringing the ballast" and of course I reply with a yes.


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## Ajax_MD

lapworth said:


> There was a thread asking why people think sailors are cheap. Not trying to brake the bank but dam you can buy a 30 pack for $20. *There where times Bubble told us not to bring any more because his boat was getting to heavy*.


True. I noticed that our beer consumption varied inversely to the amount of wind we got. :laugher

I agree that the relationship changes somewhat, depending on what "level" of racing you're at. I'm at the bottom. The Very Bottom:

New skipper
Old boat
Green crew

That relationship is probably different from:

Experienced, competitive skipper
Newer (or at least more competitive boat)
Experienced crew


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## SVAuspicious

BubbleheadMd said:


> True. I noticed that our beer consumption varied inversely to the amount of wind we got.


Yep. I remember a real drifter - the SMSA Sharps Island Race I think - that drove that home. We had all the weight to leeward and one light weight person handing up sandwiches and beer. NO ONE moved for fear of slowing down the boat. We'd been chasing one boat for three or four hours during which we gained about 10 feet over a mile or so. Suddenly their sails dropped, engine started, and they spun around. Waving as they passed us heading back to Solomons they shouted "we ran out of beer!"


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## bvander66

This is something that should be set up beginning of season. On our boat the skipper provided the drinks, and the crew, on a rotational basis, bought the food.


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## hellosailor

Real beer doesn't come in a 30-pack.


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## rhr1956

hellosailor said:


> Real beer doesn't come in a 30-pack.


I'm going to dissagree with that statement. If it's brewed it's beer...or soy sauce


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## miatapaul

hellosailor said:


> Real beer doesn't come in a 30-pack.


Pabst Blue Ribbon baby, in my house it is either PBR or it is something good, preferably an IPA or some other hoppy variety. I don't see there is any need for in between. PBR are good in the heat and sun though, a good IPA in the sun, will tend to put you under.


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## Beaverkill

rhr1956 said:


> I'm going to dissagree with that statement. If it's brewed it's beer...or soy sauce


And wine comes in a box... but you wont catch me drinking it... 30 packs are for coeds and nascar races...Yes I am a beer snob...Its quality over quantity...There are soo many quality beers available today, why would someone elect to purchase swill in a can... Good thing about our Wed night races, there are a few good beers on tap at the yacht club bar.. And as part of the crew, I am more than happy to buy a pitcher or two...The skipper/owner is already providing a boat and covering all the expenses of racing...I get to sail, race for the cost of a couple of pitchers of beer...That is a bargain in my book..


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## red.sky

maybe it's southern hospitality, but down here, skipper/owner provides food, drinks, beer, rum on boat plus buys wrist bands for food & drinks at awards party in addition to providing hotel room if needed.
And if I run into him or his son at the yacht club, they always invite me join them for drinks & meal. 
life is good - will sail for cuba libres


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## hellosailor

Southern hospitality?

Up here in New England, the host always has a fresh change of clothes laid out in your cabin. Complementary bathrobes with the yacht's name embossed on them. Nice dry slippers for your feet. And usually souvenir foulies that you can take home if you've needed to wear them. (You know, if you don't take them home, someone is going to have to dispose of those _used _clothes anyhow.)

Which is not to mention these "of course they couldn't really be Cuban" (wink-wink) cigars offered with the port and brandy.


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## dugout

When I used to race the serious owners provided travel expenses, hotel and airfare, and yes "ships stores". Captain and Crew raced the boat. Even in local stuff, the owner provided ship's stores if he wanted any kind of crew worth having. Crew throws a big party/dinner at the end of the season for the owner and his family and presents a "gift" like a professional aerial photo of the boat and some gag gifts.
I'd be real disappointed if I busted my tail all day and there wasn't at least a cold beer after tagging and bagging, even after a beer can series.


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## Classic30

If you come racing with me, expect to provide at least a packet of biscuits.. and Crew Tax. 

Stuffit, I've got a boat to maintain and race entry fees to pay here. You can't expect to rock up happy-as-Larry and head out on a Sunday picnic... If that's what you're after, book a ride on the spectator boat!!


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## charlie000

I guess it depends on if you are "crew" or if its all one big team.
I crew on a modest keelboat. The skipper and crew are all friends, I would not roll up to a party at his house empty handed. I wouldn't roll up to a race empty handed either. If I felt I was a lesser part of the team I don't think a free sandwich and beer would keep me on the boat. As a celebrated BOAT TRAMP I crew on lots of boats and I go with the flow of the boat, which of course is exactly how the owner wants to run it. Some boats have been alcohol free until we are tied up along side afterwards, all have been fun. Maybe as yachts get bigger crew expectations rise also. How we raced, communicated and celebrated are the factors that decide if I'll crew again. so far haven't found a skipper i couldn't crew for or didn't want me back.


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## titustiger27

Does the crew get a vote --- or even a partial vote? they might break the 1-1 tie in your family.

Actually this should be a formula that factors in: your ability to pay, dedication of crew, what weapons your wife owns, thickness of the skin you own, and all divided by love


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## SailRacer

Whatever you do, find out the expected protocol prior to your first day out.

Sail safe!


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## LASWACK

Yet to crew without cold adult beverages and at least snacks, but I never show up empty handed either!


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## L124C

Hartley18 said:


> If you come racing with me, expect to provide at least a packet of biscuits.. and Crew Tax.
> 
> Stuffit, I've got a boat to maintain and race entry fees to pay here. You can't expect to rock up happy-as-Larry and head out on a Sunday picnic... If that's what you're after, book a ride on the spectator boat!!


On a amateur/beer can level I completely agree. I'm amazed how many people have shown up on my boat empty handed, especially for day sailing. Yet, they will happily accept beer or food anyone is willing to share. I never show up anywhere empty handed. It's just not my nature.
For beer can racing, I think the tradition here is the skipper buys the crew a round at the yacht club after the race. I think it should be the other way around. I guess the logic is: Guys with yachts are rich. News Flash......My "yacht" is 40 years old!:laugher


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## northoceanbeach

I don't drink so when I crew I bring what I'll need for gear and food and water. I'm not morally loosed to alcohol but since I don't drink it I don't bring it. I think if you do a six pack should be brought. The if you forget things like water you can feel better drinking theirs since you brought beer for everyone. That pretty much seems pretty standard even on Simeon the more serious boats I raced on. I have found people quite sharing. Unless you habitually show up empty handed and always take they probably won't care. Dot forget to brin something at least the jest few times. People remember that first impression


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## jameswilson29

The skipper on whose boat I crewed the most was a nice, generous man who supplied food and water during the race, and beer afterward.

The only disturbing aspect was the method of delivery: typically, we would be sitting on the rail and a sandwich would be delivered fireman style - hand to hand to hand - and those hands weren't all that clean.


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## Tim R.

jameswilson29 said:


> The skipper on whose boat I crewed the most was a nice, generous man who supplied food and water during the race, and beer afterward.
> 
> The only disturbing aspect was the method of delivery: typically, we would be sitting on the rail and a sandwich would be delivered fireman style - hand to hand to hand - and those hands weren't all that clean.


James, you need to thank your crew for helping to boost your immune system


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## jephotog

Tim R. said:


> Around here captain supplies the boat. Crew provide the beer. What is food?


Beer

Except for my first boat where everyone was a dirtbag sailor, including the owner's son who skippered the boat, dad had his own to race. everyone brought their own beer, on long races everyone brought even more beer which was in lew of the food not brought.

Mostly skipper provides food, crew beer, in my experience. A boat I raced briefly last year is owned by a guy who bought a 41' race boat to piss off a girlfriend. He had never raced or even sailed before then. He provided the beer and food which equaled rum and rum. He got two experienced crusty old sailors to help him race and win on his boat. They also threatened mutiny when the quality or rum was not up to par. I remember one of the races in which one of the old guys had some back problems. He still showed up before the race to help out and drink some rum, then walked back to his waterfront condo while we raced then showed up after the race to "help" out some more.

Living in Socal I do not know if I will ever be able to afford a big sailboat, doubt I will be able to ever race one of my own, I would rather break someone elses boat, anyways. Besides the boat, slip, new sails, the other expenses include feeding the crew, maybe a logo'd shirt of jacket. If you have a crew of rockstar sailors it probably also includes hotel rooms on long races.

My current boat just sent an email around to the crew discussing what we can do for the skipper to thank him for our free ride 50 days a year. The discussion focused on the traditions involved and not wanting to insult the Skipper.


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## jephotog

On another note I learned to race for the cost of a 12 pack.

When I first learned to race, or moved to a new town, I would buy a 12 pack, and walk the dock with my sailing bag over my shoulder and a 12 pack in my hand asking, "do you need crew?"

No matter wind conditions or crew size I was usually on by the second boat I asked.


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## hellosailor

je-
I'd bet that if you all chipped in and either hired someone, or did the work yourselves, the skipper would be tickled pink to find the entire boat, cabin, decks, all cleaned and the hull waxed and polished as well.
Of course it might be simpler and cheaper to just take him out to a good dinner. (G)


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## jephotog

hellosailor said:


> je-
> I'd bet that if you all chipped in and either hired someone, or did the work yourselves, the skipper would be tickled pink to find the entire boat, cabin, decks, all cleaned and the hull waxed and polished as well.
> Of course it might be simpler and cheaper to just take him out to a good dinner. (G)


The boat is being taken out for bottom paint on Saturday and we have been invited to do some waxing while its on the hard. I was assigned a 3 day trip late last night that may prevent me from helping out. But having been marginally employed for 7 months, I can't turn down any work. I may have to buy him that dinner, when I'd rather work on the boat.


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## L124C

*Who pays for speakers?*

Had a guest put his foot through one of my cockpit speakers! He didn't even mention it until I pointed it out. He sheepishly responded "Oh yeah....sorry man!". Never offered to pay or help me fix it. I wouldn't have accepted anyway, but the offer (or at least pointing it out when he did it) would have kept him on my crew list! 
Ironically, when I asked earlier in the day if he wanted to hear some music, he said "No, I prefer the sounds of the sea". I guess he wasn't kidding!:laugher
Oh yeah...he also failed the "ice test". I gave him five bucks and asked him to get a block of ice from the Harbormaster. He came back with the ice and my $3 in change. C'mon man....show some class!


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## Stuff4Toys

*Re: Who pays for speakers?*



l124c said:


> had a guest put his foot through one of my cockpit speakers! He didn't even mention it until i pointed it out. He sheepishly responded "oh yeah....sorry man!". Never offered to pay or help me fix it. I wouldn't have accepted anyway, but the offer (or at least pointing it out when he did it) would have kept him on my crew list!


amen


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## Dauntless Brent

Not to step on any toes. But! If I'm going to crew in a race I feel that the Capt. should be kicking in the beer and sandwiches. I wouldn't have someone helping me paint my house supply their own beer and lunch. Just sayin.


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## jephotog

hellosailor said:


> je-
> I'd bet that if you all chipped in and either hired someone, or did the work yourselves, the skipper would be tickled pink to find the entire boat, cabin, decks, all cleaned and the hull waxed and polished as well.
> Of course it might be simpler and cheaper to just take him out to a good dinner. (G)


Bottom got delayed and painted last week. Most of the regular crew showed up on Saturday before the work done and waxed the hull above the boot line in 4 hours. The skipper is very appreciative. We solved the beer discussion by winning the 1st two Wednesdays in a row. The prize was from a really good local brewery.

The best part of that is most of the crew only drinks crappy Mexican beer. The bad part is I am not drinking until I get below 200 lbs.


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## miatapaul

jephotog said:


> Bottom got delayed and painted last week. Most of the regular crew showed up on Saturday before the work done and waxed the hull above the boot line in 4 hours. The skipper is very appreciative. We solved the beer discussion by winning the 1st two Wednesdays in a row. The prize was from a really good local brewery.
> 
> The best part of that is most of the crew only drinks crappy Mexican beer. The bad part is I am not drinking until I get below 200 lbs.


Well, is that US pounds or those extra heavy Imperial pounds? :laugher I make exceptions for local beer, since it does not travel very far it could not possibly pick up many calories! (makes it hard to understand how I have lost 20 US pounds)


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## L124C

Dauntless Brent said:


> Not to step on any toes. But! If I'm going to crew in a race I feel that the Capt. should be kicking in the beer and sandwiches. I wouldn't have someone helping me paint my house supply their own beer and lunch. Just sayin.


Just sayin...you'd better be a pro! 
For others (unlike "painting a house") sailing is fun. I teach people to sail and crew (on a armature level), for nothing. I provide the boat (slip fee and insurance and maintenance), and any knowledge and experience I have. The least they could do is bring something. 
If your invited to someone's home (as a guest, not to "paint" it) do you come empty handed? I hope not! 
Pro sailors on the other hand, are skilled athletes, don't make much and their employers generally have deep pockets and expensive toys! "Just sayin!..."


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## Ajax_MD

Dauntless Brent said:


> Not to step on any toes. But! If I'm going to crew in a race I feel that the Capt. should be kicking in the beer and sandwiches. I wouldn't have someone helping me paint my house supply their own beer and lunch. Just sayin.


Well you're completely wrong.

Painting a house is a "chore" or a "job" that few people would feel is a pleasant or entertaining pastime, and I agree that food and beverage should be provided.

Crewing a sailboat, whether for racing or pleasure, is a recreational pastime, even if physical exertion is involved. The skipper is providing you with a day on the water, on his boat, at his expense. You should provide your own personal equipment, and be prepared to contribute a snack and beverage at his discretion, or at least a snack and beverage for your own personal consumption. Some skippers will provide food and beverage, but by no means should it be expected.

"Crew protocol" is an unwritten set of rules and varies somewhat from boat to boat, but it never ceases to stun me that some people think that not only should I provide the boat, the certifications, the entry fees, field the maintenance costs and the fuel, but that I should also provide:

Gloves
Auto-inflating PFD's
Foulies
Entire meals complete with snacks
Water
Alcoholic beverages
Ice

So exactly what are you, the crew providing? Ah yes...labor. 
Crew is what makes the boat go, right? Can't win a race without crew!

Oh...you mean the crew that I have to constantly plead with to hike, to trim, to pay attention to their jobs?

_"Guys, I need more weight on the rail, could you all move to the high side please?"
"Traveler down please, we're heeled way too much, and slowing down."
"I'm sorry, could you please set your beer aside and snug the vang down?"
"Hey, sorry to interrupt your story, but the jib is flogging and the inner tells are luffing straight up. Could you trim it in please?"_

These same people complain that their standing in their class never improves as the series progresses. They can't be bothered to come practice twice a month, or pay attention to their jobs during a race, or even make dock call on time.

It must be my fault.
_"This skipper is clueless."
"He should buy new sails."
"He should haul the boat and fair the bottom again."
"Man, this boat is dirty, look at all the empty cans."_

Brent, people like you are why I singlehand. Get a clue, mate.


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## Classic30

In all of the various skipper training courses available today, I don't think skippers are taught enough about how to relate to their crews.

In my very first race series, in Sabots, a very, very long time ago (yikes!), I chucked my crew overboard within sight of the finish line and let him swim home. I learnt a valuable lesson that day and have never had a crew problem since..  :laugher :laugher


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## zz4gta

I'll chime in again. 

The answer is, it depends. 

If the boat is an old racer cruiser with old sails, family crew, and beers in hand during racing, then NO. The owner probably shouldn't care to much about winning either. 

If it's a grand prix boat with a GP budget, paid pro on board and doing expensive away regattas, then yes. Heck even the the average boats on the bay do that. I do that with my 25 footer. But then again, I expect people to do their best, show up on time, and get better each time out. 

The trick is to match up the crews expectations with the skippers expectations. When those align, the boat does very well.


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## RobGallagher

This thread reminds me of just one more reason why I don't get involved in racing.

It's like watching a bunch of losers sitting at dinner staring at the check waiting for someone else to pick it up.

Most people I hang with try to reach for the check first and then we fight over it.

You guys really worry about a sandwich and a can of beer? lol )


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## jephotog

Enjoying the proceeds from winning the first two Beer Cans of the season. The Skipper saves money by putting together a good crew and does not have to buy beer for a few weeks now, we take turns bringing the rum rations for each post race celebration.


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## mbetter

RobGallagher said:


> This thread reminds me of just one more reason why I don't get involved in racing.
> 
> It's like watching a bunch of losers sitting at dinner staring at the check waiting for someone else to pick it up.
> 
> Most people I hang with try to reach for the check first and then we fight over it.
> 
> You guys really worry about a sandwich and a can of beer? lol )


But you still go out to dinner with people, though, right? Why would the drama on other boats cause you to not want to race?


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## bobsaxet

Sorry...I'm late to this thread so I just read this from awhile back...



bljones said:


> It's not a matter of who is right, it is a matter of peace in the household. Now, you can fold, and alienate a whole crew to satisfy one wife, and start sliding down the slippery slope of the henpeck highway, or you can create peace through Mutually Assured Destruction:
> Tell her you just realized how many pairs of shoes she has in her closet, and offer to stop buying sustenance for the crew if she will stop buying shoes.
> 
> Who's this bljones guy? He's a genius!


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## RobGallagher

mbetter said:


> But you still go out to dinner with people, though, right? Why would the drama on other boats cause you to not want to race?


I was half joking  And let me preface this rant by saying that I know some racers to be decent. Most of them are boat owners or friends of boat owners.

The rest are Wed. night lounge lizards who show up wearing their racing kit with three bud lights in a fanny cooler looking for a free ride. 

They raft up to you without asking with nothing but half an old fender hanging so they can pick up the lounge lizard who is invariably late, leave trash everywhere, dirty up the marina restrooms (as if they could get any dirtier), double park and block people in, borrow things without asking, in their haste to "help the owner" so they can get the hell out of their ASAP they throw other peoples inflatables around or worse, drag them across pavement, yell at each other, and now apparently they fight over who must pay for a can of beer. 

I almost choked to death laughing one Wed. night when my girlfriend punched one douchebag in the face for slapping her ass as she walked by. I would have finished him off but he ran away and pretty fast for a fat guy with a porn star mustache. Granted he was more afraid of her than me. It all started because he was riding us because we didn't race my boat and she finally got sick of it and told him to please shut the ^&%# up. Funny...30 racers standing around and not one of them says a word to him. Even funnier that this guy didn't own a boat. 

Maybe they don't understand how much they are held in contempt by people who simply enjoy sailing and maintaining their boat all while respecting other peoples property. I watch these race boat owners doing all the hard labor in the spring and fall. There is no crew to help. The crew shows up when the weather gets nice and thinks it's funny as heck to sail "OPB" and contribute little or nothing except some self perceived special skill they have. 

Yes they will even brag about how much smarter they are than someone dumb enough to buy a boat and take them for a free ride. They probably sleep on OPC (other peoples couches) as well. 

Maybe because when they are done making a mess they speed out of the marina as fast as they can leaving nothing but dust, fast food trash, empty cans and clogged toilets in their wake. 

:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## bljones

bobsaxet said:


> Who's this bljones guy? He's a genius!


Dude, you owe an untold number of Sailnetters new keyboards, cuz a whole assload of beverages got spewed just now.

But, thanks.


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## denverd0n

Here's the bottom line...

Do you like winning? Are you willing to pay a little bit for that? Do you want to have your pick of the very best crew available? Well then, keep paying for the beer. Everyone will know that you do that, and all the very best crew will have no problem deciding who they want to sail with--YOU!

Stop paying for the beer, and instead of getting your pick of the very best available, you'll just get whoever decides that maybe they like sailing with you, or whoever no one else has picked.

It's a pretty simple equation, when you get down to it.


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## mbetter

denverd0n said:


> Here's the bottom line...
> 
> Do you like winning? Are you willing to pay a little bit for that? Do you want to have your pick of the very best crew available? Well then, keep paying for the beer. Everyone will know that you do that, and all the very best crew will have no problem deciding who they want to sail with--YOU!
> 
> Stop paying for the beer, and instead of getting your pick of the very best available, you'll just get whoever decides that maybe they like sailing with you, or whoever no one else has picked.
> 
> It's a pretty simple equation, when you get down to it.


Seriously. Running a competitive and successful racing boat is one of the most expensive and stupidest endeavors one can ever embark upon. After the huge boat payment, the constant sail purchases, the keel fairing, the bottom cleaning, the yacht club fees, the entry fees, the missed time from (a presumably very high paying job) for away races, the repairs required from riding all of your **** way too hard all the time, booze for the crew is barely a blip on the radar.

Crew is easy to find, good crew isn't, and crewing on a competitive race boat requires a level of discipline that moves past recreation into the level of work. If you're not going to pay the crew, the least you can do is to buy their booze. If you really want the rock stars, you might also want to look the other way when the bowman is getting fresh with your daughter.


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## dcianci179

Obanarama,

Your wife is right, and waaaaay cuter than you too, no seriously

If you sailing with me, you bring the beer and snacks, I paid for the boat and the maintenance. 

We are a BYOB boat. However, we are also brewers, so we ALWAYS bring extra beer for people to drink, unless its a really long sail!

Racing, hey, if we win (which we did once) I'll buy you a beer at the bar.

Come sail with us again! Friday night beer cans in Berkeley with a spinnaker! 

Cheers,
Damon


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## blt2ski

From Page one.............


djodenda said:


> We casually buoy race. I provide drinks (including good beer) and light supper. It doesn't cost much, and I am happy to host. Sometimes the extra beer goes to Blt2ski's crew. They seem to go through it a bit faster than we do..


I will swag us beggars can not be choosers eh!

now if this here boat owner would put himself back in his correct slip, ie across from us.....vs before us.......altho we did pickup a 6 pack or two from in front of slip E8 or there abouts the other day.....hope that skipper was not to unhappy to be missing said 6 pack or two!

Marty


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## Ajax_MD

denverd0n said:


> Here's the bottom line...
> 
> Do you like winning? Are you willing to pay a little bit for that? Do you want to have your pick of the very best crew available? Well then, keep paying for the beer. Everyone will know that you do that, and all the very best crew will have no problem deciding who they want to sail with--YOU!
> 
> Stop paying for the beer, and instead of getting your pick of the very best available, you'll just get whoever decides that maybe they like sailing with you, or whoever no one else has picked.
> 
> It's a pretty simple equation, when you get down to it.


What a load of crap.

I've supplied food, booze and personal gear, and got less-than-mediocre crew in return.

I've raced on other boats who provided everything, and got the same underwhelming performance.

I've raced on BYOB boats, where the crew was outstanding, and made it to the podium most of the time.

I've seen crew willingly race with screaming a$$holes, simply because the guy had a fast boat, and half a clue which end of the boat should cross the finish line first.

There are so many other factors in play besides providing food and drink. One of the biggest factors, is simply whether or not the boat is fast, or winning. People want to be winners, so they ally themselves with a winner boat, whether the guy is a jerk, provides comforts or not.


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## abrahamx




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## abrahamx

On the two boats I raced on crew and captain would roughly take turns buying beer. there were no snacks and certainly no sandwiches. That would be really cool though I actually was not a big fan of the skipper I raced with so no longer do.


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## abrahamx

SVAuspicious said:


> You need to sail in longer races.


He said tuesday night races did he not. Longer races I have seen several crew making a dish and the skipper providing the rest of the food. No beer drinking being done during the race, although I sneek in a bottle of rum for good luck. Crew usually pitches in a couple hundred bucks a pop.


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## SVAuspicious

abrahamx said:


> He said tuesday night races did he not. Longer races I have seen several crew making a dish and the skipper providing the rest of the food. No beer drinking being done during the race, although I sneek in a bottle of rum for good luck. Crew usually pitches in a couple hundred bucks a pop.


Your post made me remember a very light air race a few years ago. We were chasing a boat a hundred feet ahead of us and gaining inches. All of a sudden their sails came down, the engine fired up, and they turned around headed for home. On their way past us they shouted "we ran out of beer." DNF *grin*


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## sanssouci

Check with your insurance company. I have learned that others contributing to the costs of using your boat, then it turns it into a charter situation. I know, everybody does it and none of my crew would ever sue me, but, you never know.


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