# Fales Explorer 38?



## CCBreeze (Sep 13, 2011)

Wondering if anyone has any experience with these boats? I'm having a difficult time finding any information about them, not even how many were made. I'm looking at one that has really caught my eye, and it seems to be a extremely rugged, solid bluewater cruiser with excellent fit and finish below. Perhaps undervalued because not as well known as a Corbin, PSC, Tayana, etc.? Short-term goal to continue cruising New England area while upgrading, longer term to take down the East Coast to the islands, possibly Bermuda. Any input appreciated!


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Could you post a pic of the boat please.
I always found the Fales to be uncommonly homely looking. Maybe that has something to do with its lack of success.


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## CCBreeze (Sep 13, 2011)

Homely?! Well, I'm a Yankee - kind of like the tough, trawler look myself...I also own a Pekingese which most people confuse with an alien, and will never win a beauty contest. I guess I may not be the best judge.

Not sure if this worked - new to sailnet. Here is the original brochure (one thing I did find):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mcHv3O733...Y/s1600/Fales-Explorer-38-Brochure-Page-3.jpg


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Um, perhaps is the latent cruiser in me, but I find that boat stunning. Would love to see it in a classic color of maroon, or navy, or forest green.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

This one in Rhode Island?


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm sorry. I was thinking of a totally different boat.
The Fales looks fine to me.

I was thinking Folkes, the steel boats.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Looks a bit like a ketch rigged Valiant 40.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

bobperry said:


> I'm sorry. I was thinking of a totally different boat.
> The Fales looks fine to me.
> 
> I was thinking Folkes, the steel boats.


BP,
You are probably thinking of the Fales navigator. Homely ? That's a fair cop.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

That is the one I was thinking of until I looked it up on Yachtworld. 

I don't think many other builders copied that style.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

The Explorer is essentially built from a stretched Fales Navigator hull, which itself is a stretched Willard Vega.


I admit to having a soft spot for the Navigator. It's so ugly it makes me look handsome.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

bljones said:


> The Explorer is essentially built from a stretched Fales Navigator hull, which itself is a stretched Willard Vega.
> 
> I admit to having a soft spot for the Navigator. It's so ugly it makes me look handsome.


seems doubtful but we'll take your word for it .... 

I vaguely remember someone here thinking of buying one at some stage. I can't remember who it was nor what they ended up doing but I do remember lots of pics and discussions re the Navigator and the Vega.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The Fales Navigator 32, according to SailboatData.com, was created by adding 2' to the hull of the Willard 30 and William Crealock is the credited designer.

Makes sense the larger was created the same way.

FALES NAVIGATOR 32 sailboat on sailboatdata.com


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## CCBreeze (Sep 13, 2011)

yeah.... Not really interested in the 32'...eesh. 

38' is an entirely different beast. Was looking at one on the dock in East Greenwich, RI and thought it looked like stout, long distance cruiser. Was hoping anyone might have any sailing experience on one? I like the versatile sail plan and hefty traditional look.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Actually no. I was thinking of the Folkes.

I'd be careful before throwing out ideas like"stretching" boats to make new models. How do you "stretch" a boat? It's pretty hard just to tack on a few extra feet of LOA on a double ender. It can be done though. If the beam of the two boats being compared is different then how do you "stretch" beam? Do you spread the two halves of the hull apart and fill in the gap gaining both beam and LOA in the process? It can be done. I've done it. Twice. I hated doing it but it worked.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

It may not be a true stretched version, ie cut it in half add 2'........

ir even on paper per say, and start from scratch. 

But literally a scaled up version if you will. How many times has one seen a builder saying clients are asking for a bigger version of X, so out they come with Y, about 3-4' longer. Paperwork/advertising says a stretched version of X.........but reality is, a new design!

One could say the same for a CS30 and a CS36M, or Jeanneau's Arcadia and Sunshine 36/38 to ea in the same brand. Yeah same designer in all four, you can see the similarities in the same brand, even my Arcadia is similar to the CS36M across the slip from me, but yet they are different. 

I guess I am saying, is it (A) truly stretched as BP is probably thinking, or a (B) designed from scratch, a stretched version per say with appropriate beam/length/draft etc added?

Marty


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Marty:
Yep, that's what I was trying to say.
I think the term "stretched" may be misapplied in some cases and a simpole "scaling up" really does not work. I've seen designers do mit. I once worked for a designer who did it regularily but that is not my style. I like that fresh sheet of mylar or today, that blank computer screen.

But today with complex hull design programs available the designer can stretch an existing design on three different axis ( axees, axies, whatever). That can be a quick way to get a new design started if the actual stretch is not to big. This is a far cry from taking a set of lines to the printer and asking him to "blow it up" 20% like some designers did in the old days.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Bob,

While I am not going to say the design work I do is equal to boats, home or _______. But I do have a landscape design degree. So yes, I do deal with stretched/bigger/blowup/shrunk/scaled up or down versions of items. Most cases, that is the "BEST" way for the client to say what they want their landscape to look like when I am done. IE they look at a picture of my past, or someone elses work, and I have to work with that picture. I would not be surprised if you have to do the same.

IE someone saying they want an FT10 (style) but a 3-4' longer with a bit more interior cabin space. or a valient like shape but 36' not the 32 or 38' on the market or what ever the length of item it is they like. 

I would agree, stretched is probably a misused term. I have seen one other designer use it on some of his dinghy plans, where you can vary an 8' boat down to 7'3" to upwards of 9' or so, and still keep some semblence of the boats ability. Otherwise, he recommends to use one of his other plans. 

Marty


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Marty:
Yes, that's prtetty much the same for me. The client may ask for a "stretch" of another design and I know what they mean. But I do not scale hulls up and down. Hell, that would take all the fun and challenge out of doing a new design.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

So I could come to you if I had the fund tomorrow, and say I want a 35'ish foot version of guielleta(sp?) with interior plan A..........I'd probably have some plans to work with by the end of the week or next! Someday maybe.............. in the mean time, a J109, X34 may have to do.............or in reality, mu current 30' boatLOL


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Bob

The measurements for the Fales Navigator 32 are all different from the Willard 30 it was apparently "stretched" from. Loa, lwl, and beam are all a bit more on the Fales. Weight is listed as the same - 17,000 lbs and draft is actually 1.2 ft less on the larger Fales. So they apparently did a bit more than just add a few feet.

Willard 30 Fales Navigator 32

Loa 30 31.67
Lwl 27.5 29.12
Beam 10.42 11.17
Draft 4.7 3.5

Steve Dashew's Sundeer 60 (built by TPI) was shortened by a bit over 3' to create the Sundeer 56 from the same mold according to his book. But maybe shortening is a bit easier than lengthening?

Totally different subject - Greg S who I think you know is taking "Foreign Affair" down the coast to San Diego and then on to Mexico - he should be on his way by now. He was leaving from Bamfield.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Ski:
Yep, that's about how it works. I do it all the time. I have done it for the past almost 40 years now. I'm actually fairly good at it. Just had a call from a custom boat client who has had his boat now for over 5 years and he is still raving about how much he loves the boat. I have to do more than chat about it. I have to make it actually work.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I think that it is one thing to stretch the transom and counter on a transom boat, but double Enders don't stretch so easy. In wooden boat days we would sometimes move the mold spacing on the loft floor to produce a longer or shorter model of known design. (I did that on a Lawley Dinghy once.) Of course it affects the bow profile which means that the resultant boat is not exactly a stretch. It's not so easy with bigger boats. Probably the best known successful stretch was the Peterson 44 to 46 stretch which allegedly was done by spreading the frames a few extra inches and building a new plug.

In terms of the boat in question, coming from a Sabre, I think that a boat like the Fales will be a disappointment performance-wise. Frankly24,000 lb displacement is obscenely heavy for a 38 foot boat on a 33 foot waterline.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

bobperry said:


> Actually no. I was thinking of the Folkes.


hmmm ... I don't know Folkes ... even google doesn't seem to throw up any links or images.


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## CCBreeze (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok all, I would like to get back on the Fales 38.

It's tough to get info on such a short production run boat and determine if it's a fit. To be honest, I sail a Pearson 36.2, and this not comparable in any way. I get my kicks racing a Laser and a Rhodes 19. We have never sailed something purely defined as a cruiser only but our needs are changing. 

I have looked at the boat and it appears very well built. The interior is large and well laid out with solid teak construction throughout except the galley.

This is some additional info I have found out:

Hull was designed by Charles F. Street, interior by Alden, built by TPI.
Blogs I have searched have talked about Fales stretching a trawler but never this boat mentioned. 

Our needs are comfort, stability, room for visitors appropriate to 2 years in the Caribbean/East Coast/Bermuda.

Other boats we are comparing to are:
Corbin 39, Cabo Rico 38, Shannon 38, Pearson 424/422 and Whitby 42/Brewer 12.8 on the larger side. 

Any suggestions on how to judge boat like a Fales 38 so rarely experienced first hand?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It looks solid, if not fast. Nice layout but no chart table I can see. I think 38' is a bit small for a ketch, not really necessary until 50' or over. Looks well built though and TPI can do a good job. 

Like any boat check for soft decks, age of rigging, condition of chainplates, maststep, engine, etc.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> It looks solid, if not fast. Nice layout but no chart table I can see. I think 38' is a bit small for a ketch, not really necessary until 50' or over. Looks well built though and TPI can do a good job.
> 
> Like any boat check for soft decks, age of rigging, condition of chainplates, maststep, engine, etc.


Interesting. They've lost a chart table but have ended up with one of the roomiest aft cabins I've seen in an aft cockpit boat of that era and havn't had to push the V-berth right up into the bow. I'd miss not having a chart table.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

tdw

Here are a few links on the Folkes - steel and many home finished.

Google


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> tdw
> 
> Here are a few links on the Folkes - steel and many home finished.
> 
> Google


Thanks Brian. When I threw "Folkes Sailboat" at Google nothing came up. Odd.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Maybe your Google isn't the same as ours?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

There was a 38' Fales motorsailor that was along the lines of their 32'. I believe it was on the same hull as the ketch that is under discussion here.

I doubt it was much of a sailor but it struck me that it would be a pretty good choice for summer cruising here in the Salish Sea since everyone spends so much time under power anyway. 

It had a bit of a fishboat look to it that is probably an acquired taste.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> tdw
> 
> Here are a few links on the Folkes - steel and many home finished.
> 
> Google


I've been around and on a number of Folkes steel boats since they are (or were) built here. I have always found them to be something less than a yacht finish inside and out. Workmanlike would be the best I could say about them. They also have the rep of being very slow. The first one I was on was a 35' clipper bowed ketch and for some reason it was built with 5'10" headroom - it was like being in an iron lung.

IMHO you would have to have strength as far and away the most important quality you were looking for in a boat to consider one of them.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

You're right - I was being polite.


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## CCBreeze (Sep 13, 2011)

Fales 38 has a fold down chart table with drawer in the massive aft cabin. There's not much this boat doesn't have in terms of a hefty cruiser. The teak and quality below is something like I've never seen on any production boat- like my Pearson, but it isn't even in the ballpark. Still considering the boat...


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## TX_BG (Nov 21, 2011)

*Fales 38*

Fales 38 is a great boat, very well built ... lived on Hull #4 and cruised the Bahamas for 4 years. Do you know what the hull # is or name of the boat you're considering? The boats were built in the Pearson-Tillotson yard by Fales Sr. and Jr. They originated from the Willard trollers, and Fales redesigned them into sailboats. Yes, they look very much like a Valiant - just a little more like a chubbier sister. The boat is not as fast, nor does it point as well as a Valiant. So it will take you a little longer, but you'll arrive safe and rested and won't be beat to death as you can be on a fin-keel. So depending on the type of sailing and where you want to sail, this boat may be a great fit for you. Not knowing what type of updates the previous owners made, the original cabin lights were incandescent. Ditch them for new l.e.d.'s. You'll absolutely love the separate shower stall (ditch the wet gear clothes rod, and put in mesh shelves for more storage). You'll grow to love the fold down nav table, as its out of the way when you don't need it, and viewable from the cockpit when you're on watch (set up the computer and go). At anchor, the boat is extremely comfortable. The cockpit has nice heights (comfy and very supportive on your back). If it has an electric windless you can use it to hoist the dinghy on deck and not mess with davits. LOL - if you need more details, send me an email. Good luck!
TX_BG


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## Jason Flare (Dec 20, 2011)

I looked at that Fales 38 in Warwick, RI, this Fall and put an offer on it. My offer was low and was refused, as I expected it would be, and the broker didn't seem to want to use my offer as a starting point. When I looked at the boat it was on the hard but the bilge was full of water to just below the floorboards. Some floorboards were taken up and were too swolen with moisture to fit back in place. It's a well built boat, made in the U.S. by Tillotson Pearson. I like the canoe stern and the aluminum, rather than spruce, spars. It needs a lot of TLC, which, for the right price, I would be willing to give it. I'm keeping my eye on it. It doesn't cost anything to wait for a price reduction.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Strange. The listing states "...leak free fiberglass decks..." 
I wonder how the water got there?

1979 Pearson -Tillotson-Pearson Fales 38 Explorer Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## TX_BG (Nov 21, 2011)

Jason - do you know the hull number of the Fales you're looking at?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> Strange. The listing states "...leak free fiberglass decks..."
> I wonder how the water got there?


It's a variation on the NRA's "Guns don't kill, people kill" - Decks don't leak, hardware mounting holes leak.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It is a funny statement to make when the boat is on the hard and the bilges are full of water though.


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## Jason Flare (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't know the Hull number but the boat is named, _Nansea_. According to the listing it was formerly named, _Latitude._


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## Jason Flare (Dec 20, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> Strange. The listing states "...leak free fiberglass decks..."
> I wonder how the water got there?
> 
> 1979 Pearson -Tillotson-Pearson Fales 38 Explorer Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


The broker said that the boat had just been powerwashed. My wife and I had three problems with that: 
1.) it didn't look powerwashed, which was good because
2.) a powerwasher can do a lot of damage to paint or gelcoat if not done carefully, and
3.) if someone powerwashed the outside, how did the water get inside?

Powerwashing does not use a lot of water and the bilges were nearly full. I think the water getting in was rainwater through leaks in the cockpit hatches, and perhaps the companionway hatch and deck fittings.


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## alanbrim (Aug 29, 2012)

i used to own a fales 38 exporer, she was called cooriedoon and the last i heard of was that she was in hawai, get back to me if you still want info, they only built 18 pearson built the hull


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## Jason Flare (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, alanbrim. My wife and I puirchased a Formosa 41 that was in excellent condition with a lot of well executed upgrades. We sailed it from Mississippi to Massachusetts and are very very plea
sed with it. Thank you for letting me know about your former boat in Hawaii. Hawaii to Massachusetts would have been an exciting sail I'm sure. Stay well, and thank you again, Jason


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