# Help the "new generation" pick a cruising boat



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Sailnetters,

I've been reading Sailnet often over the past four years and have post every so often. I'm here now to ask the denizens of Sailnet for advice on a boat purchase for extended cruising. I asked this same question in the "New Generation" thread a bit ago but the topic needs its own thread so here it goes!

Background:
I'm 26 and have enjoyed immensely cruising my Pearson 26 around the Chesapeake for the past three years. I've done a few of week-long cruises and many a long weekend/overnight during that time including a DelMarva circumnavigation.

Myself and two of my friends (all mid/late-20s young professionals) have been saving diligently are looking for the right boat for a 2-3 year cruising trip/haitus from the working world starting in Fall 2015 or 2016. We're aiming for a circumnavigation.

I've been looking at this Tayana 37 but it has 90% of the bungs missing from the teak decks (just side decks) - although at a steal (potentially?) at a 35k asking price if we do the work.

If possible we'd like to spend under 40k. We're looking for the smallest, simplest, and of course, sturdiest, vessel we can find. So what say ye Sailnet? What's a good vessel for this trip?

Thanks in advance and apologies for the length!


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Surprisingly there are a lot of candidates in your area. Here's a YW search to $30K leaving you room for upgrades. 104 hits!!

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale


----------



## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

For Smack....

Be sure to get a production bluewater coastal cruiser meant for rough seas, nothing else is safe!


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

ianjoub said:


> For Smack....
> 
> Be sure to get a production bluewater coastal cruiser meant for rough seas, nothing else is safe!


Troublemaker!! 

As to the list posted above, most will not be considered long distance cruisers but there are a couple of gems in that crowd.. I'm once again surprised at how much boat one can get these days for little money...


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Faster. I've certainly been looking through Yachworld, craigslist, sailboat listings ect. I suppose the question is, of those within the budget, which are the most suitable? I've mostly been looking at traditional full keel boats (many of which are also double-enders). It was originally just going to be two people so we were looking at Southern Cross 31s, CD 30s, Bayfield 32s, Westsails (when priced right) and the like. 

I'm less familiar with which boats are most suitable in the 37+ ft range which is what I imagine (though could be mistaken) would the minimum size for 3 people.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm sure you will invoke a lively discussion about your focus on traditional full-keelers. I'll say two quick things, and make a biased suggestion:

#1. I applaud you on your choice. There are many excellent "traditional" boats (whatever that means) to be had which are very good sailboats and excellent cruisers. These boats are, as a general rule, solid, well designed, and beautiful. If they make your heart beat a little faster, then you have an excellent eye. Get one.

#2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with many modern designed boats. There are many "modern" boats (whatever that means) that are excellent cruisers. Most are superior sailors (although I really should be defining these terms). Until you've had some experience with a number of boats, I recommend NOT locking into one design concept.

#3. Look for a Rafiki-37. I only say this b/c it is the best boat ever built for a short-handed cruiser, and that's my completely biased opinion .

Seriously, there are tons of boats to consider. Here's a list of Cruising World's top 40 cruising boats as picked by contributors: People?s Choice of Best Cruising Sailboats | Cruising World (Rafiki didn't even make it ). Another site has pretty pictures to accompany their list: Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org (again, no Rafiki ... how can this be ).

Ask 12 online cruisers about anything and you'll get at least 23 opinions. I'd strongly suggest getting some real experience before making any firm decisions about design.

... and then buy a Rafiki-37 if you can find one .


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Macgregor 26x.... make sure to use a bluewater bucket.


----------



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

"I'm aiming for a circumnavigation and want a cheap, small, simple, sturdy boat. I've been reading the forum for years."

Wonder if you are going to get any new answers :rolleyes


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)




----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Here's another listing of "blue water" boats:

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

In the end the only thing a question like this can give you is a list of boats. What makes a good cruising boat for me isn't necessarily what you'd want. But that difference of opinion doesn't make the boat itself any less capable.

We've now settled on our Next Boat but only after lots of research, reading blogs of people who sail the same boat, reviewing the specs, matching up our list of Wants, Needs, and Nice to Haves, and getting on one.


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Plenty of choices out there, including the many suggestions already given. Here's a few more: 5 Budget Cruisers for Crossing Oceans

And just to appease Mike, how about a Rafiki 35?

Or an Allied Seabreeze?


----------



## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

He's a kid for crying out loud! Why are you directing him towards antiques? Rafiki? Allied Seabreeze? The Seabreeze was new when I was his age. This kid needs a boat that has some modern performamnce characteristics. I'll poke the dog with a stick and suggest he find an old IOR one tonner, probably in the mid $20,000's. One of my old two tonners was turned into a cruising boat and has made at least two trips to Alaska. It for sale now, IRISH ROSE. The owner loves the boat. Give me five minutes to add another layer of sand bags to my bunker before you go at me please.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

bobperry said:


> He's a kid for crying out loud! Why are you directing him towards antiques? Rafiki? Allied Seabreeze? The Seabreeze was new when I was his age. This kid needs a boat that has some modern performamnce characteristics. I'll poke the dog with a stick and suggest he find an old IOR one tonner, probably in the mid $20,000's. One of my old two tonners was turned into a cruising boat and has made at least two trips to Alaska. It for sale now, IRISH ROSE. The owner loves the boat. Give me five minutes to add another layer of sand bags to my bunker before you go at me please.


Bob, I hope you realize my "Rafiki recommendation" was done with tongue firmly planted in cheek. No one should be making these kinds of decision without getting some real experience with actual boats. That's how I always respond to these kinds of questions (when I respond at all ... which I usually don't).

Once he's got some real experience, only THEN he can learn that he should buy a Rafiki 37, or as a second choice, a Tayana 37 . (JOKE ALERT!).


----------



## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Poor kid. I'd throw my body down across the dock to prevent him from buying either of those boats. What about a nice, well proven, older C&C 35? What about a Cal 34?


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

bobperry said:


> He's a kid for crying out loud! Why are you directing him towards antiques? Rafiki? Allied Seabreeze? ...Give me five minutes to add another layer of sand bags to my bunker before you go at me please.


Mostly because of his budget and desire to circumnavigate. Those are boats that check both boxes, but admittedly also check the "antique" and antiquated design boxes too.

But you're right, there are probably better choices for the same money if he wants a little performance mixed in too.


----------



## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

One of the things Mike said above is really important: "built for a short handed cruiser".
Another issue is "the plan". It is really hard for me to imagine that three twenty something year olds planning a two year voyage will be the same three people that end up going and completing it. So, don't get yourself over leveraged with a boat that you cannot afford or handle by yourself. I think I would rather have three people on a 32 footer than one person on a complex 37 footer. 
If you want to leave in one or two years, don't buy a fixer upper. You need to spend that interval learning every thing about your new boat, getting the equipment and materials you are going to need and planning, not doing major repairs and replacing old worn out equipment.
Regrading the lists of "proven blue water cruisers" - realize that very few of these boats were chosen by three twenty something year olds and met the comfort and safety requirements of middle aged couples. On item they almost all share is a small cockpit, valued for holding very little water when pooped, which is good from a seamanship perspective, but hardly supports the lively water sports image of three young people. And the canoe or pointed stern will surely interfere with scuba diving, surfing, kite surfing, etc.
And last, consider using a professional yacht consultant in searching for the right boat, someone like Mr. Perry, who can be found on this site.
Good luck, I hope this works for you. Lifestyle choices are really different now than 40-50 years ago, which makes me somewhat envious, but go for it, make a good plan, sign it in blood, then get the boat and go.
John


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Mr. Bubs said:


>


I never really understood the sentiment behind "beating a dead horse," but now that I've owned horses for about 6 years, I can honestly say, sometimes, I could certainly "see it."

Sorry for the distraction, back to your regularly scheduled rerun.


----------



## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

There is a Seattle two tonner WINGS, I think that's the name, that has been "blue water cruising" for the past ten years, at least. I think the only real issue is tankage. But that can be overcome with careful planning. I think that some of the older teak infested boats can be maintenance nightmares while some of the more austere production models can be almost maintenance free. As much as any boat is maintenance free.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

ccriders said:


> And last, consider using a professional yacht consultant in searching for the right boat, someone like Mr. Perry, who can be found on this site.


I'd second that. In fact, that's exactly what the previous owners of our current boat did. Apparently Bob was very informative and giving of his/your time, and helped them zero in on our boat.

Well worth the meagre money you charge for this service.


----------



## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks you very much Mike. Maybe it's time to re-meager.

I do enjoy working with people as they look at the variety of boats available. With it being such a buyer's market it helps to have a full quiver so you be certain of hitting your target boat.


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

ccriders said:


> One of the things Mike said above is really important: "built for a short handed cruiser".
> Another issue is "the plan". It is really hard for me to imagine that three twenty something year olds planning a two year voyage will be the same three people that end up going and completing it. So, don't get yourself over leveraged with a boat that you cannot afford or handle by yourself. I think I would rather have three people on a 32 footer than one person on a complex 37 footer.
> If you want to leave in one or two years, don't buy a fixer upper. You need to spend that interval learning every thing about your new boat, getting the equipment and materials you are going to need and planning, not doing major repairs and replacing old worn out equipment.
> Regrading the lists of "proven blue water cruisers" - realize that very few of these boats were chosen by three twenty something year olds and met the comfort and safety requirements of middle aged couples. On item they almost all share is a small cockpit, valued for holding very little water when pooped, which is good from a seamanship perspective, but hardly supports the lively water sports image of three young people. And the canoe or pointed stern will surely interfere with scuba diving, surfing, kite surfing, etc.
> ...


Useful post. The cost of purchase but especially ownership increases very quickly with boat length. And think of it this way: on passage, you are sleeping in shifts, so you only need enuf sea berths for two. At anchor, active young people are going to spend much of their time off the boat, and sleeping three in a 32'er is no worse than a dorm room, military barracks, or hostel. The young are adaptable. If you are good friends, privacy isn't a big deal. If you aren't, what the heck are you sharing a boat for? 

You planning a tropical circumnav, or a Great Capes basher? That's kinda an important consideration.

Tartans and Bene Firsts are good sailors and proven tough. I'm a bit fond of the Scanmars; they pack big-boat accommodations into a small & easily-handled frac sloop. The one in the link has a new Yanmar, looks well-kept, and could probably leave tomorrow. Anything Wauquiez is good.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your continued responses and advice. A special thank you to Mr. Perry - wow thank you for your time. 

Currently on a lunch break at work so will save a longer reply for later once home. 

I have looked and continue to at the usual sites for the boats listed on mahina and sail far. The question for me here is that many (in the budget category) are 32ft or under range. As I mentioned previously, a question here for me is what size is reasonable for three people? Most of the blog out there are for couples or single handlers so I've struggled to find a point of reference for three. 

I've not heard much about c&c or cals (though mahina notes the 2-46 as having done the trip) being used for more than costal or near costal. 
Am I mistaken there?

I hadn't thought of a consultant. I'll look into pricing on that.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

And to quickly answer bobmcgov

Tropics

We're good friends. Maybe a 32 with a pipe/sea berth in addition to the bench would fit the bill.


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

The teak plugs falling out of the deck is a really bad sign of one thing for sure and another in all likelihood. The deck has been aggressively cleaned and sanded enough that it is a lot thinner than original so there is not much left to grip the plugs, which are also likely quite thin. The poor deck maintenance (or perhaps just the ravages of time) make it likely that water has gotten into the deck core. At best you need to remove the teak and make a f/g deck out of it. At worst, you have to remove the core and rebuild the top surface of the deck as f/g (don't even think about the cost of an new teak deck. Any of these repairs will take a lot of time, quite a bit of skill, and some dollars (with you doing the work - getting it professionally done could be $20k+. There is a reason why this boat is cheap.

As to what boat to buy, you can go beyond the more traditional boats you mention. Nothing wrong with going a bit faster than those boats would. With three people you want at least two good sea berths. Note that often you cannot use the v-berth at sea. Could be something like two settees and one quarter berth. Don't imagine you want to hot bunk it. There are some interesting arrangements out there among the standard ones. I had a Niagara 35 Classic, just as an example, and it two quarter berths in their own cabin, two settees, and no v-berth at all - just large storage lockers for sail bags and other bulky things. I would look at boat interiors and picture what it would be like for three people both at anchor and underway.


----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

kjones said:


> ...The question for me here is that many (in the budget category) are 32ft or under range. As I mentioned previously, a question here for me is what size is reasonable for three people? ...


Sorta depends on the personalities of the three people and how much they will put up with to go on this adventure. Another thing to consider is that no matter how strong your friendship is, life happens, people change, circumstances change. One or two may have to leave the boat for whatever reason. Whoever is left should be prepared for that whether it's stopping the voyage or continuing alone. If alone, will that person be able to handle the boat?

You might want to consider chartering in your size range for a week or two. If you can't deal with each other for that length of time in close quarters, you'll know now.

A family I know prepared for living aboard a catamaran by moving the entire family into one third of the house for six months before leaving.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bobperry said:


> Poor kid. I'd throw my body down across the dock to prevent him from buying either of those boats. What about a nice, well proven, older C&C 35? What about a Cal 34?


Kjones. Listen to this guy. Obviously.

As for me, I wouldn't touch anything that needs a lot of work. You have to decide if you want to spend your time re-building a boat or sailing.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Drferron - point well taken. I did the delmarva circ in the p26 with one of the friends. That was 36 hrs (2 nights) annapolis to norfolk. 48hrs Norfolk to cape May. Both legs 90% under sail which accounts for the long times. 22ish back to annapolis. 

All three of us togeter had done a few long weekend cruises this summer. Certainly much more room to so more but just wanted to give a reference point showing that this isn't just out of the blue. 

Smack- I certainly heed the word of bob perry!


----------



## IStream (Dec 15, 2013)

smackdaddy said:


> Kjones. Listen to this guy.
> 
> (You should Google him to see what I mean.)
> 
> As for me, I wouldn't touch anything that needs a lot of work. You have to decide if you want to spend your time re-building a boat or sailing.


Just to play devil's advocate, there are boats that require a lot of work and there are boats that require A Lot Of Work. If I were planning to go on an extended cruise, I'd want to know every system inside and out. That means crawling over the rigging, DC and AC electrics, thru-hulls and lines, engine, etc. If you're going through that level of inspection, it's not necessarily a lot more work to fix/upgrade things and you don't need to have The Knack (



), though it helps. If you're handy and have a little experience, you can find boats that have "good bones" but some systems problems that can drastically lower their price but don't necessarily require tons of work to make right. Being able to recognize this pre-purchase is the key. Talking to your inspector beforehand to give him a sense of your technical skills and how much you're willing to take on can be key.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

IStream said:


> Just to play devil's advocate, there are boats that require a lot of work and there are boats that require A Lot Of Work. If I were planning to go on an extended cruise, I'd want to know every system inside and out. That means crawling over the rigging, DC and AC electrics, thru-hulls and lines, engine, etc. If you're going through that level of inspection, it's not necessarily a lot more work to fix/upgrade things and you don't need to have The Knack (
> 
> 
> 
> ), though it helps. If you're handy and have a little experience, you can find boats that have "good bones" but some systems problems that can drastically lower their price but don't necessarily require tons of work to make right. Being able to recognize this pre-purchase is the key. Talking to your inspector beforehand to give him a sense of your technical skills and how much you're willing to take on can be key.


You'll learn the boat one way or another. I'd just rather be sailing it while I'm learning its systems...instead of spending thousands fixing my broken systems so I can some day (maybe) sail it.


----------



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

ccriders said:


> One of the things Mike said above is really important: "built for a short handed cruiser".


Do statements like this suggest older boats were built for, and required, multi-hands?


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Another 'how big do I need' factor will be the planned schedule.. if your primarily talking voyaging, all three will rarely be below at any given time. If you're going to be dealing the the 'normal' situation of 10-20% voyaging and the remainder on the hook or on a mooring as you chill out together then a larger, roomier boat is probably going to be a better fit.

In any event, try to find a boat that is sized (and rigged) is such a way that any one of you could handle her alone in a worst case scenario.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

This is worth a look 1978 Carena 37.5 Centercockpit Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Get an ultrasound survey on the hull.

It has most of the kit you would need.


----------



## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Don0190 said:


> Do statements like this suggest older boats were built for, and required, multi-hands?


No, but look at the boat he linked to and compare that to the boat he is expeienced with - Tayana 37 vs Pearson 26 - that is a giant leap and would require some serious learning, just to sail, much less fix up for world cruising. OP specified "simple" and "strong" which doesn't seem to fit the Tayana or many of the favored world cruisers. Who mentioned fractional rig? - listen to him, he's on the right track.

How long do refits take? I know, highly variable. Once I decided to fix a dripping faucet on the bath tub in an old house... Long story and a long job for what should have been easy and quick enough to get done in a football game commercial break. 
KISS

John


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

So many considerations. 

I infer that the OP is planning to travel around the world with his two young friends rather fast, so as to check that one off the old bucket list. If so, then having a boat that sails well in most conditions is paramount. Focus on sailing systems like good self-steering, good sail controls, good sails, single-handing, etc. Sleeping in shifts, and keeping the boat moving is key. No need to focus on liveability in this case. This journey will be more like a delivery than a cruise (and there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want). 

If you're planning to do it cheaply, then having a boat that has decent storage and tankage is important; one that has good anchoring system, good electricity generation, and one that is maintainable and repairable at your level of competence and skill is essential.

Any boat that is relatively cheap is going to require some upgrades, repairs and maintenance. Refit costs will be real. KISS will likely be the driving force.


----------



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

ccriders said:


> No, but look at the boat he linked to and compare that to the boat he is expeienced with - Tayana 37 vs Pearson 26 - that is a giant leap and would require some serious learning, just to sail,


"Small" boat sailors always seem to think something like a 37 footer is big and takes learning to move up to. :laugher

I can not really believe that 3 people who aren't planning to sleep together should cruise on less than a 40' boat. But since I've never spent the night on anything less than a 37' boat, and that was my wife and I in V-berth and the instructor in the quarter berth, maybe I just expect space. Open your choices to "modern" boat and gain so more enjoyment on your cruise.


----------



## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Don0190 said:


> "I can not really believe that 3 people who aren't planning to sleep together should cruise on less than a 40' boat.


Well, we never did get more than they were 'good' friends. What is the guy/girl ratio? This could all work out fine for them .


----------



## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Kjones .Without extending yourself too far (financially) the larger boat has more options. Every body can live in the same V berth if you want but options are good. I've not sailed anything under 42 ' and like the elbow room. Gotta remember some boat stuff is exponential ( carrying capacity ,expenses)and dependable while work capacity of crew is lineal. and not. Incidentally , is the J silent ?


----------



## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I have found that privacy is over rated on small boats.


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

bobperry said:


> I have found that privacy is over rated on small boats.


Even quite a large boat is smaller than a typical efficiency apartment. If someone snores, everyone's gonna know about it. If someone's using the head or makin' whoopie in the forepeak, everyone's gonna know about it. Then privacy becomes a state of mind and relies on mutual respect, rather than on the vast, hermetically isolated living quarters Americans are used to. I know nuclear families living in 3500sqft houses who literally do not know, at any given time, which other family members are in the house or where they might be found. That's not gonna happen on any sailboat our OP is likely to choose.

In some cultures, privacy is given rather than enforced. People _see_ but do not _notice_. Small boat sailing is about rejiggering expectations. If you can't do that, you are pretty much screwed on anything shorter than 100ft.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Continued thanks to everyone. The Carena, Scanmar, and Waquiez are ones I hadn't looked at before. Thank you for pointing those out. 

Capt Len - J is not silent. Jones is the last name. 

When I said wanting a "simple" boat, I meant along the lines of what Mike O'Riley said. In other words, simple and fixable systems. I've been reading "Sail the Farm" and Annie Hill's "Voyaging on a Small Income" which is where that thinking is coming from. 

We're planning for 2 - 3 years. Ideally, enough time to stop and explore many places but admittedly not enough time for everything. 

Point well taken on the need for the boat to be able to be singlehanded in case of emergency/extenuating circumstances.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

kjones said:


> When I said wanting a "simple" boat, I meant along the lines of what Mike O'Riley said. In other words, simple and fixable systems. I've been reading "Sail the Farm" and Annie Hill's "Voyaging on a Small Income" which is where that thinking is coming from.


Good books kjones. Both dated, but good ideas and approaches for someone wanting to cruise frugally. I'd encourage you to read through some of the "Voyaging on $500 per month" or even the "$3000/mo cruising budget" threads here. Lots of good ideas about frugal, KISS-style cruising (ignore all the whining and griping).

I'm sure you know this, but books and online babble are no substitute for actual boating experience. Get out and sail and cruise as many boats as possible. Listen to more experienced folk, but make up your own mind. We all come to the table with biases.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

kjones said:


> I've been reading "Sail the Farm" and Annie Hill's "Voyaging on a Small Income" which is where that thinking is coming from.


Do you mean _Sailing the Farm_? I found a copy of the book on the Internet last year (seems to be gone now) and read it. Please be careful what you take from it. I recall a lot of technical shortfalls.


----------



## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

kjones said:


> Point well taken on the need for the boat to be able to be singlehanded in case of emergency/extenuating circumstances.


It's not just a far-fetched scenario, either, like: "What if a Kraken dragged my friends overboard and ate them -- could I bring the boat in by myself?" During daylight coastal sailing or island-hopping legs, all of you may be awake, on lookout, and sailing the boat to its fullest potential. You'll be at the helm hand steering, friend#1 will be tweaking the spi pole height, and friend #2 will beon the bow scanning for coral or floating garbage. Jimmy Buffet playing on the stereo, possibly some cold beverages in hand.

But you will also likely face a number of 15-30 day passages; call it (conservatively) 15,000 miles out of a total 30,000 will be done in stretches of three days or longer. On those days, there will usually only be one person handling the boat at a time. Some people overlap or double up watches, but with three aboard it seems the preferred method is shortened one-person watches. You can wait until a change of watch to tack or jibe or alter the sailplan, but fast moving squalls are a reality of tropical sailing. Do you call 'All hands!' for each reef, unreef, ship sighting, jibe, or potty break? Gonna be a fatigued and grumpy crew if the watchkeeper can't handle most of those tasks alone. That's why it pays to choose a boat that is not too big for one person to manage. The are larger boats like _Hawk_ (47') set up for shorthanded passages, but they are often designed from the start for that purpose, and the owners need to be skilled and confident sailors.

Your idea of a simple baseline boat is wise. You can always add complexity to suit your needs & tastes, and then you will know each system as you install it. A nightmare is a buy someone else's complex boat, with snarls of unlabeled wiring, a reefer of uncertain age, homebrew powered winches, vestigial deck hardware, etc. Cuz all that stuff will break at some point, even it you aren't using it, and then you'll have no clue how to fix it.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

kjones said:


> Continued thanks to everyone. The Carena, Scanmar, and Waquiez are ones I hadn't looked at before. Thank you for pointing those out.
> 
> We're planning for 2 - 3 years. Ideally, enough time to stop and explore many places but admittedly not enough time for everything.


If you do start thinking about the Carena the Autohelm 3000 is inadequate and the water tankage woefully small. I would fit a Hydrovane windvane and find space for another 50 gallons at least.

A 2 year circumnavigation will leave you little time for sightseeing. You will arrive, recuperate for a day or two then start fixing the boat, looking for spare bits and finding out where the Fedex office is and dealing with customs.

But it will be a great adventure and you will be making some special landfalls.

I know a number of people who did a 2 year circumnavigation to get their "GREAT SAILOR" ticket stamped then went round again taking 7 to 10 years.

Oh yes don't worry about singlehanding a 30 to 40 ft boat. I am a slightly decrepit old fart and single hand a 44 footer around the Eastern Carib.


----------



## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey! Another young DCer who sails! That's awesome - I've been hanging around here for years and I've never seen anyone else from DC before. A great many NoVA and MD folks, true, but hardly anyone else from the District. 

And all of you with your nosy questions about who sleeps where. This is a young millenial in a city where even the sports bars are gay - trust me you don't want to know who sleeps where. 

I have no advice on your search (expect hiring Bob sounds like a great idea) but just wanted to say hey.

E.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

emcentar - Great to hear of others in DC! I sent you a PM.

I've been continuing the search and came across two prospects today that fit, nearly, Bob Perry's suggestion and are both under 30k - a C&C 39 and Cal 34.

C&C 39
1971 C&C Fiberglass 39 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Pros:
Lots of space (aft and mid ship berth to port and starboard)
Good cruising gear/bells & whistles already there - Watermaker, SSB, Liferaft, Solar

Cons:
Rod rigging. I'd prefer wire and mechanical fittings as to allow for repairs in remote areas or in case of emergency.
Harder(?) to single hand. 
Higher operating costs.

Cal 34
1977 CAL 34 MK III Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Pros:
Newer.
Shallower draft.
Easier to single hand.

Cons:
Swaged fittings.
Less gear.
Less space (one aft sea berth).

They both already have wind vanes installed which is certainly a plus and both have fairly low engine hours (approx 200 for the Cal and 500 for the C&C).

I imagine i'd need replace the rigging on either before setting off.

Cal is hank on while C&C is roller furling. I'm conflicted as to if i want the mechanical simplicity of hank on vs ease of furling but risk of furler failure.

Has anyone here had experience distance cruising either of these boats? Additional thoughts?

Thanks!


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

You want furling, trust me. A difference in age with boats this old is irrelevant. Singlehanding should not be an issue with either boat. I am with TQA on this one. Our boat is 40,000 lbs (more important the length when you are talking about handling) and my wife or I can sail it alone without a problem. Having good furling and reefing (in our case main and genoa) and good winches really matters.

I used to race on a C&C 39. It carried a lot of sail. You would likely want to reef early but that is not a bad thing. What kind of vanes are we talking here? Unless you know that the standing rigging is fairly new you should assume you will be changing it for just about any boat.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Killarney. Monitor windvanes on both.


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Monitors are good, but I am not unbiased about them. 

I should have asked about the tankage of the two boats. This is important.


----------



## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

killarney_sailor said:


> Our boat is 40,000 lbs (more Having good furling and reefing (in our case main and genoa) and good winches really matters.


I would add good Self Tailing winches. Big jib, single handing - cranking and tailing can be a pain. And slow too.
John


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I certainly like my roller furling but with a younger crew on a 30 - 37 ft boat I think hank on headsails are OK and the boat should be cheaper. Lots of used headsails around too at reasonable prices.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

An update for the group. I've put down a depost contingent on survey on a Tartan 34C "Temujin" ( https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/5019200982.html). Now working on scheduling said survey. There is a lot of information out there on this particular T34 a a previous owner was working on upgrading her for the annapolis to bermuda race followed by a trip to the med before he sadly and unexpected passed away. There are are lots of high points on the essentials but she certainly needs some cosmetic TLC. At the price though, seems hard to pass up.

Thanks to everyone again for the advice so far.


----------



## kjones (Aug 4, 2011)

Update #2. Survey went great. Used Peter Hartoft (great guy and highly recommend). Proud new owner of a Tartan 34C. Really looking forward to getting her in top shape!

P26 is now listed for sale 1976 Pearson 26 w/ dinghy and slip though October


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Congratulations. Enjoy your new boat.


----------



## stinker (Mar 5, 2015)

FNG here and been lurking a bit.
Yes I have plans but mostly questions for now.
I been looking at lots of posts, list, opinions, until my head hurts.
Knowing the old saying, interiors sell boats I have found one that appeals to me,
a Bayfield 36ft. There seems to be quite a few offered, of course non in my area.
One thing that has jumped out at me is the lack of available info online. The bits I do
see seem to speak well of the 36 but many of the lists I see that do mention Bayfield
do not mention this model and I wonder why? The Mahina list above skips over it as well,
is it that much of a sinker?
I will say that one of the major appeals to me for the 36 layout is lack of a V berth and
having what looks like a decent head. I don't know if I should be put off by the wing
hatch or not? I wonder how tight it could be buttoned up in nasty weather, I am
also suspect of the companion way hatch boards, dosen't seem to be any but rather a 
screen and louvered cover but those are an easy fix.
Still the main question remains, why does the 36ft. get past over as a distance cruiser?

Thanks


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

The Mahina list is certainly not comprehensive and often will skip a model by a manufacturer while listing other near sisterships. They did not make a lot of 36s (or 40s) compared to their smaller models. 

Not a big fan of Bayfields in general. They seem to be constructed reasonably well but their sailing performance is not very good unless you are reaching with at least 15 knots. You either like the pretend clipper ship look or you don't. The butterfly hatch would be a mixed blessing. Would be wonderful at anchor but I think it would leak at sea if rougher conditions. I suspect you could make a Sunbrella cover that would keep things dry but you would loose a lot of light. There are a few other boats available that do not had a v-berth. The Niagara 35 Mark 1 version comes to mind. The v-berth area is used for storage and a small workshop area. The boat has an unusual layout but it works well for passage making with four good sea berths. It does not have a large double berth which was a deal-killer for my wife who likes to spread out when she sleeps.


----------



## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

bobperry said:


> Poor kid. I'd throw my body down across the dock to prevent him from buying either of those boats. What about a nice, well proven, older C&C 35? What about a Cal 34?


Wrong thread, Bob, but right quote.


----------

