# DIY - discussion on building a DIY hookah diving compressor



## stopher2

DIY concept for PROPANE driven Hookah diving compressor.

I am thinking that a DIY concept for a Hookah diving compressor might be interesting for cruisers.

A couple of initial ideas:
1. gasoline pancake oiless compressor with 2 tanks. 150psi
2. propane conversion kit for above compressor (another one for the dingy outboard)
3. ingress air filter and distance hose (to ensure you don't get any CO into the lines)
4. egress air filter (to ensure you don't get any oils or particles out of the tank)
5. lowes air line spliced with regulator (1st stage=150psi)
6. normal diving regulator.

thats cheaping it out at about $600 all said. I like the aluminum double tanks. 
plus you get compressed air onboard for pneumatic tools ! ALL OPERATED ON PROPANE


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## MastUndSchotbruch

stopher2 said:


> DIY concept for PROPANE driven Hookah diving compressor.
> 
> I am thinking that a DIY concept for a Hookah diving compressor might be interesting for cruisers.
> 
> A couple of initial ideas:
> 1. gasoline pancake oiless compressor with 2 tanks. 150psi
> 2. propane conversion kit for above compressor (another one for the dingy outboard)
> 3. ingress air filter and distance hose (to ensure you don't get any CO into the lines)
> 4. egress air filter (to ensure you don't get any oils or particles out of the tank)
> 5. lowes air line spliced with regulator (1st stage=150psi)
> 6. normal diving regulator.
> 
> thats cheaping it out at about $600 all said. I like the aluminum double tanks.
> plus you get compressed air onboard for pneumatic tools ! ALL OPERATED ON PROPANE


Interesting. Why propane and not leave it running on gas?


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## kd3pc

you may search here and see the oft posts of this idea, and all the pros and cons.

Propane adds another layer of risk to the DIY, why not save up another $400 and buy a commercially available one, that has the proper components for safe breathing and a record of reliability.

If you insist on this, at least get properly trained on diving. And read up on labeled air lines for breathing and chafe.

Be safe.


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## Stumble

Along with air, in your system you will also be breathing in lubricating oil found in the air stream of tool compressors. You can do it, but its terrible for you... Pretty much like inhaling wd-40 every time you use it. This is part of why SCUBA compressors are so expensive, they use special engineering to ensure that no oil is transmitted to the tank, while many pneumatic tools rely on this oil to lubricate themselves.

Oil filters do not completely eliminate this unless they have been rated for breathable air. And when you look at the ones rated this way, you get really close to the $1,000 price for a commercial unit.


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## killarney_sailor

First of all, I should admit that I know next to nothing about dive equipment, but we ran into a cruiser who had an interesting device onboard for doing quick checks and repairs. He had taken a dive regulator and separated the primary and secondary stages of the regulator (if I understood his description). He left the primary stage attached to his tank, which stayed on deck while the secondary stage was attached to the mouthpiece by a hose long enough that he work on his keel or whatever. He said that this arrangement allowed him to get in the water much quicker than with tank he wore or setting up a hookah? Comments?


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## Minnewaska

killarney_sailor said:


> First of all, I should admit that I know next to nothing about dive equipment, but we ran into a cruiser who had an interesting device onboard for doing quick checks and repairs. He had taken a dive regulator and separated the primary and secondary stages of the regulator (if I understood his description). He left the primary stage attached to his tank, which stayed on deck while the secondary stage was attached to the mouthpiece by a hose long enough that he work on his keel or whatever. He said that this arrangement allowed him to get in the water much quicker than with tank he wore or setting up a hookah? Comments?


It's a good idea. He didn't really do anything more than add a longer hose between the first and second stage regulators. They are naturally separate.


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## canucksailorguy

While in Cuba, I came across an interesting setup, used it in fact to change a prop. A former commercial diver had taken an electric air compressor, just a cheapie one probably worth about $110 at Northern, put a long hose and scuba mouthpiece on it, plugged it in at the dock and it worked just fine. Had to suck a bit harder than one might like if the job was a long one, but it gave me enough air to get 'er done.
No issues with oil, etc.
I've been thinking of setting up something similar for my own boat. Thoughts?


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## sushirama

the pancake compressors are oilless which makes them popular for that purpose. my buddies built one for mainly under hull work but I dont think they have used it for recreational purposes.


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## canucksailorguy

care to share details?


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## Navigator Wannabe

The first stage is always on the tank, the second in your mouth, connected to the first stage with a 3 ft hose.
He apparently replaced this hose with a longer one, allowing him to leave the tank on deck instead of carrying it on his back.
There is one drawback to this idea: You need the weight of the tank to actually get and stay under water; some even need extra lead besides the tank. 
Without that weight, you bob up like a cork, or have to paddle like crazy, just to stay under water.



killarney_sailor said:


> First of all, I should admit that I know next to nothing about dive equipment, but we ran into a cruiser who had an interesting device onboard for doing quick checks and repairs. He had taken a dive regulator and separated the primary and secondary stages of the regulator (if I understood his description). He left the primary stage attached to his tank, which stayed on deck while the secondary stage was attached to the mouthpiece by a hose long enough that he work on his keel or whatever. He said that this arrangement allowed him to get in the water much quicker than with tank he wore or setting up a hookah? Comments?


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## SimonV

12v electric diaphragm air pumps are readily available from aquarium shops.


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## AirborneSF

I have a 30ft hose on one of my tanks, I carry on the boat. I have a yoke to hook (2) tanks together, but haven't had the need. Remember, even a 'hooker' rig has 'bottom' time, don't get into trouble by thinking you can STAY down forever,(like cleaning a couple of hulls at one time). .02


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## Minnewaska

If you mean decompression time, its all but impossible to have an issue when your max depth may be 6 or 7 ft.


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## canucksailorguy

SimonV said:


> 12v electric diaphragm air pumps are readily available from aquarium shops.


Are there actually pumps of that type that are adequate for this sort of thing? I'll admit, I'm picturing the little pump that ran my 15 gallon aquarium...


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## PorFin

Let's slow down a bit here.

If you are unfamiliar with safe diving principles, then please take the time to learn them. It's not rocket science, and ultimately can make the difference in whether or not you injure yourself or do long term damage to your body. If you don't want to shell out the money to get certified, at least find the texts that go with a cert course that will lay everything out for you. At a minimum, learn how to read dive tables and know what the concept of bottom time really means.

If you want to go with a remote tank set up, then most places are going to want to see a cert card when you take your tanks in for a fill.

A couple of things mentioned got my attention.



> There is one drawback to this idea: You need the weight of the tank to actually get and stay under water; some even need extra lead besides the tank.
> Without that weight, you bob up like a cork, or have to paddle like crazy, just to stay under water.


This is actually incorrect. Buoyancy control when under water is a continuous process. One of the forces at play is the air tank (others are the water density, your own body composition, the amount of gear you carry, the size and type of exposure protection you wear and at what depth, etc.) When a dive tank is full, it is negatively buoyant -- i.e. is acts as a weight. As the tank empties, it becomes negatively buoyant -- i.e., it acts as a float. Using a remote air supply removes the changing buoyancy variable of the tank.



> I have a 30ft hose on one of my tanks, I carry on the boat. I have a yoke to hook (2) tanks together, but haven't had the need. Remember, even a 'hooker' rig has 'bottom' time, don't get into trouble by thinking you can STAY down forever,(like cleaning a couple of hulls at one time). .02


AirborneSF and Minnewaska are both right. Here's a table that shows the increasing water pressure at the depths we're talking about:










As you can see, even at the relatively shallow depths we are talking about you need to consider overall increased nitrogen absorption. But as Minne mentions, rarely does the absorption level reach something that must be taken into account. Most recreational dive tables set 120 minutes as a max bottom time for depth of less than 1 atmosphere (1atm, or <33').


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## canucksailorguy

Minnewaska said:


> If you mean decompression time, its all but impossible to have an issue when your max depth may be 6 or 7 ft.


The danger would be in surfacing without exhaling more than a concern with decom times. It's possible, even at very shallow depths, to cause an air embolism.


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## Fstbttms

stopher2 said:


> 1. gasoline pancake oiless compressor with 2 tanks. 150psi


Mild steel accumulator tanks kept in a marine environment will become unsuitable for breathing in short order. Stainless or plastic only.



stopher2 said:


> 3. ingress air filter and distance hose (to ensure you don't get any CO into the lines)


Mounting the intake filter on a tall snorkle is the safest bet.



stopher2 said:


> 5. lowes air line spliced with regulator (1st stage=150psi)


*Never ever use pneumatic tool hose as breathing hose.* You should only use hose rated to provide clean breathing air.



stopher2 said:


> 6. normal diving regulator.


Maybe. Not all off the shelf 2nd stage regulators will perform well in a hookah rig.



stopher2 said:


> thats cheaping it out at about $600 all said.


They're your lungs and it's your life. But breathing compressed air underwater is not the time to be "cheaping out." Are you even SCUBA certified?


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## canucksailorguy

Good points Porfin and fstbttm. Seems there are people posting here who have 'resort' certifications rather than real knowledge.


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## hellosailor

Propane makes sense as a motor fuel when you need a clean burn, i.e .when the motor will be used once every six months and then put away,and you don't want to clean it out, pickle it, worry about varnish and gums forming in the fuel.

But if you're going to use the motor more frequently, propane also has the lowest energy density and will be the most expensive fuel you can burn. Propane for the air compressor? Sounds like a waste of time and money if you are going to use that compressor regularly, i.e. once a month or more often to clean the bottom.

Of course if you have propane and diesel onboard, it still may make more sense than going out for gasoline. Damned hard to find SMALL diesel-powered anythings.


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## eherlihy

Regarding Propane vs Gasoline vs Diesel vs Electric; for this application, I would prefer an electric pump versus one powered by any form of internal combustion engine (ICE). The ICE will need an oil change at least yearly to remain operational. Electric should not.


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## Navigator Wannabe

One breath is roughly one gallon of air.
You will want about 15 of these per minute. 
In human breathing cycles, not continuous flow.



SimonV said:


> 12v electric diaphragm air pumps are readily available from aquarium shops.


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## Ritchard

PLEASE DO NOT BE CHEAP AND STUPID.

I know a LOT about scuba diving. I have logged hundreds of dives, in all sorts of conditions, from warm water to deep water to under-ice diving, using recreational scuba gear through Technical diving gear and Rebreathers. As such I am qualified to comment here. 

I cannot tell you how bad an idea it is to use the wrong compressor to supply breathing air. It was suggested above that using the Harbor Freight kind of compressor made it as though you were breathing WD40 with each breath. I would much rather breathe WD40 than compressor oil - which you will invariably be breathing if you use a garage compressor (this is not to say that I have any interest in breathing WD40). In the short term, the chance of a blackout from breathing atomized oil is pretty high. In the long term, just go ahead and pick whatever serious chronic lung malady you'd prefer to die from. 

Fish tank compressors! Are you people on glue?

Of the ideas in the thread above, the best one for bang for the buck is a very long hose on a scuba tank on deck. This is a fairly foolproof method that can be done very cheaply. With good quality Craigslist gear (have it serviced), I would think you could do it for a couple hundred plus the cost of a custom hose. Two caveats to this. First, someone needs to stay on deck to spot you, and monitor your air usage. Running out of breathing gas, even at 6 feet, could end up a hazardous occurrence. Second, this method does not excuse you from learning the basics of recreational diving. Just how stupid do you think you'd look at your funeral if you drowned under your boat 'cuz you were being a tool? Besides being scuba certified is cool. Imagine the extra fun on your next warm water vacation?!

Please, if you feel an overwhelming need to be this kind of cheap and stupid, sit down and shoot yourself. It's much cheaper and more efficient.


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## MedSailor

I've done the research on this years ago and even set up a rig and breathed of it (on land) for a while. Here is the problem in a nutshell:

Setting this up *safely* looks easier than it is. What will get you killed here is not what you don't know (because you can look that up) it's what you _don't know you don't know._

I'll try and explain. By nature I am an iconoclast. If I'm told that there is only one way to do things, I immediately feel that that is a challenge and attempt to re-invent the wheel. That's just me. I also don't usually buy the argument that "it has to be certified to be safe" or "there are special parts in there." With this application I was/am wrong.

It seems like a simple engineering problem to build one (and basically it is) but when I tested my theory and congratulated myself on my success, I didn't know that industrial hoses break down and will cause me to inhale rubber. I didn't know that the "oil-less" compressor actually has oil in it, or that he tank would rust.

There is also the SCUBA issue. It seems like you should be able to breathe off this thing and swim around right? Wrong. If you're checking out your anchor at a nice shallow depth of 14 feet, and you decide to swim to the surface slowly without exhaling your lungs will rupture. That's the air you breathed in at depth expanding. Yet, if you took the same breath at the surface and dove down and back up, you'd be fine. These simple, non-intuitive issues will get you killed.

Getting SCUBA certified is easy and I think it would be a requirement for anyone to safely use a hookah setup. Do yourself a favor and get certified.

As far as the engineering, it can be done, just don't cheap out and do your homework. The second stage of a scuba regulator is set (but adjustable) at 120PSI which, is coincidentally the same PSI that many compressors run at. It's a simple $2 fitting to connect the 2nd stage of the regulator to an industrial hose (that's what I did and thought I was being safe) but in order to be safe you need to carefully engineer the whole system. Aspiration pneumonitis or lipoid pneumonia is not a great way to die.

MedSailor


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## Fstbttms

MedSailor said:


> I didn't know that the "oil-less" compressor actually has oil in it, or that he tank would rust.


I don't know that that is the case. I have certainly never heard that before. But let's assume it is. For hull cleaning, there is no need to have accumulator tanks and the associated plumbing. A high-quality compressor (not some Chinese-built POS from Home Depot) will run continuously for many, many hours without the need to shut down or cool off. Further, at the depths we are talking about, the air hose will hold enough reserve air to get to the surface easily in the event the compressor shuts down for some reason.

I do not recommend using a hardware store compressor as the base for hookah system, but I know plenty of hull cleaners who do, with no ill effects AFAIK.


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## MedSailor

Fstbttms said:


> I don't know that that is the case. I have certainly never heard that before. But let's assume it is. For hull cleaning, there is no need to have accumulator tanks and the associated plumbing. A high-quality compressor (not some Chinese-built POS from Home Depot) will run continuously for many, many hours without the need to shut down or cool off. Further, at the depths we are talking about, the air hose will hold enough reserve air to get to the surface easily in the event the compressor shuts down for some reason.
> 
> I do not recommend using a hardware store compressor as the base for hookah system, but I know plenty of hull cleaners who do, with no ill effects AFAIK.


The oil I was referring to was the oil used in manufacturing that was alluded to in a previous post. I could be wrong about that part. When I was designing my system years ago I had planned on putting a filter of some kind in-line but didn't feel confident that it would work that well.

MedSailor


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## Lake Superior Sailor

You can buy a hookah outfit off Ebay done ready to use for less then you are talking about & it's set up for two! Why waste your time when you could be Sailing!...Dale


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## stopher2

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Interesting. Why propane and not leave it running on gas?


gasoline needs filtering. gas goes bad over time in storage. carbs gum up.

propane can be transferred from 5ga tanks to camping sized propane carriers (refills)....which is convenient to carry around for use with a small dingy outboard or small engine like one used for a compressor.

YES ! activated carbon filter is needed with regular changes.
YES ! openwater diving training is RECOMMENDED. None of that 2 hour "saftey" crap on cruise liners either (real courses in PADI or NAUI are good).....it is your life and [pressure X volume] changes kill many divers and injure many more so don't skimp on training in scuba or hukah diving.
YES ! compressor MUST be oilless !
YES...YES...YES !


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## Stumble

Stopher,

By the time you do all that you are right back into the range of a commercial system. Maybe you can save a few bucks here and there, but it won't be a lot. Add in the value of your time and even financially it becomes a questionable deal, add in the risk of DIY versus commercial and for me at least it's a no brainer.


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## trantor12020

How about a simple 12V air pump (3-4psi) for inflating dinghy with a long flexible conrugated plastic conduit (for cables) end with a snorkle with blow-off vent at bottom and viola, a simple hooka. good for 6feet water and is over pressure relief by water pressure.


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## Fstbttms

trantor12020 said:


> How about a simple 12V air pump (3-4psi) for inflating dinghy with a long flexible conrugated plastic conduit (for cables) end with a snorkle with blow-off vent at bottom and viola, a simple hooka. good for 6feet water and is over pressure relief by water pressure.


A pump like the one you describe would be completely inadequate for supplying air to a diver. In addition, the hose you recommend is certainly dangerous to breathe from. And what- you want him to duct tape a snorkle to the end of the hose?


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## Ritchard

Darwin.


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## MedSailor

trantor12020 said:


> How about a simple 12V air pump (3-4psi) for inflating dinghy with a long flexible conrugated plastic conduit (for cables) end with a snorkle with blow-off vent at bottom and viola, a simple hooka. good for 6feet water and is over pressure relief by water pressure.


My neighbor tried exactly that. The PSI might be enough to attach to a regulator but you need a certain amount of cubic feet per minute of air. Those small tire pumps have the psi but not the CFM.

MedSailor


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## hellosailor

Med-
The purpose of an "oil free" compressor is to avoid contaminating paint jobs with oil, which will cause "fisheyes" and other blemishes in many paints. So if a compressor is sold as oil-free but still has traces of manufacturing (tool) oils in it, it is going to screw up the first paint job and that's going to be a problem. I'd expect that at Horror Freight but not from any reputable source. 

Tire pumps: Yeah, but if you line up three dozen of them and plumb them into a manifold....it still usually only takes a couple of hours before the teflon rings in them melt from overheating, they're only designed to run 20? minutes to inflate one tire or raft. Which ought to be enough time to clean the bottom of an average canoe or row-boat, whatever else draws well less than six feet of draft. (G)

Now, on behalf of my clients (Crustaceans, Scavengers, and BottomFeeders International Brotherhood Local 157W, proud co-sponsors of the Darwin Awards for 2013) I must ask you all to stop advising people not to do something cheap and stupid. Every time you save a life, my clients lose a meal. Hey, BottomFeeders got a right to eat too!


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## Razcar

Ritchard, I love your candid response. Love it!


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## Navigator Wannabe

Fstbttms said:


> A pump like the one you describe would be completely inadequate for supplying air to a diver. In addition, the hose you recommend is certainly dangerous to breathe from. And what- you want him to duct tape a snorkle to the end of the hose?


I think you are wrong: This is probably the only of the suggested setups that 

could work (sufficient throughput at low pressure)
super cheap ($20 range) and 
not inherently dangerous (other than the normal dangers of scuba *snorkeling*), i.e. oil free 

Of course it is not going to last forever, but so what? Buy three, you need dinghy pumps anyways. If it fails, you just surface.

How in the world is the hose going to kill him again?
And of course you don't use duct tape to to attach the snorkel; you use cable ties!!

:laugher


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## Lake Superior Sailor

You people should check the air that you're breathing now, or is it what your smoking!..Dale


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## Stumble

A standard tire pump puts out about 1cfm, figure you need roughly 15cfm at shallow depths while diving, so all you need is $450 of tire pumps to deliver the volume you need (at $30 each). Plus the hose and manifold to connect them, so lets say $500 for your air source...


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## Razcar

.... a 50 gallon drum, 10 motivated gerbils, 4 feet of twine, a rusty pipe, and 12 lemons.... that ought to do it. 

Seriously, for the risks involved, a few bucks for legit gear in this department is money well spent.


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## MedSailor

Personally I support the idea of making your own hookah setup and I may still try and make my own again some day, the problem is that you HAVE to get it right. Many folks have made watermakers using pressure washers and industrial pumps with great results but if you drink bad water you get the runs. If you do the hookah wrong you die.

How does inhaling rubber kill you? Let me count the ways. Most likely is drowning. Inhale a serious irritant deep into your lungs and YOU WILL COUGH like crazy. You may vomit. Think you can handle the worst coughing and vomiting fit of your life at 30ft of depth? Well, technically you can vomit into a SCUBA regulator and you "could" survive without drowning, but you will only have a chance if you've taken a scuba class. This is the kind of thing they teach.

Are you going to safely swim to the surface while continually exhaling in a controlled manner as they teach you in scuba class to avoid a punctured lung or air embolism? If you bolt for the surface and can't control your breathing you get a punctured lung, air embolism or both.

So you make it to the surface. Great, now you have aspiration pneumonia, and if the particle is deep enough and stay there, you have pneumonitis. As long as you have access to steroids, antibiotics, diuretics (for the pulmonary edema) and a ventilator you'll be fine.

Some oil left over in the compressor or on the o-ring you used? See paragraph above. The inside of the lungs are coated with surfactant (soap). They really don't like oil. It takes a lot less inhaled oil to ruin your lugs than it does to ruin paint.

Now that I've said all that, I have breathed from an industrial compressor, through an industrial hose attached to a SCUBA regulator and lived to tell about it. The problem is that I don't know which compressors I can buy (cheaply) and which hoses I can buy (cheaply) are going to be safe.

Perhaps you can get the air tested, perhaps you can do A LOT of really good research, but you really need to do one or the other or both. You can't just buy off the shelf industrial stuff and expect this to go well. It might, but it might not, and the very real consequence is death.

I know a local boat diver that uses an industrial compressor and a long diving hose and is still alive. His setup is okay, but it's hard to know which ones are and which aren't. Even if you bought the same brand/model as he did, they may have outsourced parts to someone else and it may all have changed. It can be done, but tread lightly and know the risks. Take a SCUBA class, do your homework and/or get the air tested and definitely try it out in your living room for hours before going deep with it.

Lets watch a video of untrained divers using a hookah setup in very shallow water. 






Did everyone notice how the first thing he did was remove the regulator? That is a reflex to try and move things away from your face in order to get more air. Without training that normal panic reflex (and others) will get you killed.

Be safe, and if anyone does figure out how to do it safely please post a detailed how-to!

MedSailor


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## trantor12020

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> You people should check the air that you're breathing now, or is it what your smoking!..Dale


with the kind of air pollution I doubt its any different from what we're smoking ...


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## Mantus Anchors

I made mine really cheap back in the day, I copied what boat cleaning guys do in locally,
Husky oil less compressor 100$, Filter Home Depot 15$, Hose Home Depot 9$, Regulator eBay 50$. portable generator I had on the boat already. So this system is really cheap and has limitations I could only dive to 25-30 feet max.... for a long period of time... but would put everything in my dink and made some money in Galapagos, digging up lost anchors on the bottom.
They force people to use a stern anchor, and most people don't set them up right, the line rubs through and the anchorage is full of lost anchors...


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## SimonV

If you don't plan to over exert your self you can safely go to 10M issuing an aquarium air pump that is good for 14psi, most hooker diving will be within 0 to 10m but mostly about 5. If you think about where you would use a snorkel and duck dive down for closer looks then that will be where you will spend most of your time. Don't think of hooker as a replacement for scuba but an improvement on snorkeling. Google 12v aquarium air pumps BOYU ACQ-910 12 Volt Air Compressor - $149.00 : BOYU Australia!, Aquarium & Pond Supplies, Fish Pumps & Filters or Air Pumps - DC 12V Air Pumps - Hailea ACO-007 DC 12V Air Pump - Guppy's Aquarium Products Online - ACO-003 Hailea Air Pump 12V DC


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## denverd0n

Navigator Wannabe said:


> I think you are wrong...


Based on what? Do you know how many CFM of air, at what pressure, an aquarium pump can supply? Maybe there are monster aquarium pumps out there that I've never bothered looking into, but the ones that I have seen are, as you've been told, completely inadequate for providing enough breathing air to a person 5-10 feet underwater.


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## Fstbttms

Navigator Wannabe said:


> How in the world is the hose going to kill him again? :laugher


Industrial hose not designed to carry breathing air can offgas toxins, like Dioxin. This is why the Navy developed a mil-spec for breathing hose.

Maybe you should refrain from advising people on topics that you know nothing about.


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## RobGallagher

I just don't get it. For a probably around $300 bucks on ebay one could piece together a proven system that would also work for some limited recreational diving as well as cleaning the boat.


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## Minnewaska

RobGallagher said:


> I just don't get it.......


I agree. I've considered a hookah several times. After assembling the equip, thinking about where I would store it and how long it would actually take to clean the hull, I just can't get past paying someone else to do it. More sail time.


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## Navigator Wannabe

Well, maybe if you had bothered quoting my entire sentence, or at least reading it, you would have seen that I never said an aquarium pump WOULD supply enough air volume for a snorkeler.

Just as you, I didn't check, but am concluding from aquariums I owned: An air stream that would have been sufficient for a diver would have blown the water out of the aquarium. All the water, and the fish.

The pump that the other post referred to (remember, that other one that you didn't read, but replied to  ), was a pump for inflatable mattresses, dinghies, etc.

How do I know this type of pump has enough volume? 
I owned one. And the mattress to go with it.
Inflating it by mouth took me half an hour, and I almost passed out.
The pump did it in a minute or two.
Conclusion: The pump has considerably more air flow than I do.
So much more that I am sure it can sustain sufficient flow even at the back pressure of a few feet of water.

Duh.



denverd0n said:


> Based on what? Do you know how many CFM of air, at what pressure, an aquarium pump can supply? Maybe there are monster aquarium pumps out there that I've never bothered looking into, but the ones that I have seen are, as you've been told, completely inadequate for providing enough breathing air to a person 5-10 feet underwater.


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## denverd0n

Navigator Wannabe said:


> Well, maybe if you had bothered quoting my entire sentence, or at least reading it, you would have seen that I never said an aquarium pump WOULD supply enough air volume for a snorkeler.


An experienced hookah user told you that an aquarium pump would not supply enough air, and you said that you thought he was wrong. In fact, you specifically said that it would have "sufficient throughput at low pressure." That sounds to me an awful lot like you're saying that you believe it WOULD supply enough air.

Duh, is right!


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## Navigator Wannabe

Now THIS is serious nanny-yadda-yadda.

Careful with the sailing, too! 
The UV radiation is cancerogenic! 
Aye! Panic! NOW!!

Look: If electrical conduit (which the OP suggested, right? not some weird industrial hose you dreamed up) would gas off ANYTHING in levels that is unsuitable for permanent installation in homes, it would not be allowed to be used there.
Which is exactly what it is specified, designed, tested, and blah-blah-blah-ed for.
So, breathing air through it an hour a week is not going to kill anyone.

So what was it again that you know anything and everything about, and are exclusively qualified to advise people on? :laugher



Fstbttms said:


> Industrial hose not designed to carry breathing air can offgas toxins, like Dioxin. This is why the Navy developed a mil-spec for breathing hose.
> 
> Maybe you should refrain from advising people on topics that you know nothing about.


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## Fstbttms

Navigator Wannabe said:


> Now THIS is serious nanny-yadda-yadda.
> 
> Careful with the sailing, too!
> The UV radiation is cancerogenic!
> Aye! Panic! NOW!!
> 
> Look: If electrical conduit (which the OP suggested, right? not some weird industrial hose you dreamed up) would gas off ANYTHING in levels that is unsuitable for permanent installation in homes, it would not be allowed to be used there.
> Which is exactly what it is specified, designed, tested, and blah-blah-blah-ed for.
> So, breathing air through it an hour a week is not going to kill anyone.
> 
> So what was it again that you know anything and everything about, and are exclusively qualified to advise people on? :laugher


You're right. I've only owned, researched, built and earned my living for over 18 years with hookahs. So what would I know about them? Clearly, a guy who blew up an air mattress once is the expert.


----------



## Navigator Wannabe

Well, is THAT an explanation why you are fear mongering against the DIY guys, and conjuring lethal dioxine levels in household goods.

But instead of ridiculing the air mattress: You were talking nonsense there, too, right? Confusing posts, confusing pumps.

And hey: For me inflating it ONCE was enough to understand that the pump is stronger than I am. If you would have taken several attempts for that discovery, would that have made you smarter?

Not that you even MADE this discovery until today...

:laugher



Fstbttms said:


> You're right. I've only owned, researched, built and earned my living for over 18 years with hookahs. So what would I know about them? Clearly, a guy who blew up an air mattress once is the expert.


----------



## Navigator Wannabe

Uh, another reading comprehension issue: 
Go back to start, respectively posts no. 29 and 30.
Understand who said what.
You will see that an aquarium pump was not discussed.

If you do more of the pesky reading, you will also see that I never said an aquarium pump would be sufficient, I actually told the aquarium-pump-guy that I think it will never have enough flow.

The super experienced hookah-user also didn't discuss aquarium pumps.
He replied to the dinghy-pump-post.

Should I use shorter sentences?
Maybe spell it out?

N-O A-Q-U-A-R-I-U-M.

DUH.





denverd0n said:


> An experienced hookah user told you that an aquarium pump would not supply enough air, and you said that you thought he was wrong. In fact, you specifically said that it would have "sufficient throughput at low pressure." That sounds to me an awful lot like you're saying that you believe it WOULD supply enough air.
> 
> Duh, is right!


----------



## Fstbttms

So *you're* the smart one and everyone else here is too stupid to understand what you're saying? Bwhahahahaha!


----------



## Navigator Wannabe

No, I think it's mainly you.  
The other guy just read your post and didn't notice or believe that you didn't know WHICH pump you were talking about.

Everyone else seems to have normal reading comprehension.

Actually, I don't even think you don't understand; you just don't like being called on BS you posted, and are playing dumb. 
That's why you come up with a different claim every time you get called. 

If not: Just go back, read the posts, and explain who ever said anything about the aquarium pumps.
While you are at it, explain why the navy fears dioxines in household items.

:laugher

:hammer

Or did you do a lot of deep diving?



Fstbttms said:


> *You're* the smart one and everyone else here is too stupid to understand what you're saying? Bwhahahahaha!


----------



## denverd0n

Fstbttms said:


> So *you're* the smart one and everyone else here is too stupid to understand what you're saying? Bwhahahahaha!


Well, obviously so!

Funny how the guy who thinks he's smarter than everyone else also always seem to have a great, big chip on his shoulder, isn't it? If he thinks someone else has misunderstood him, it's not enough to explain the misunderstanding, he has to throw in a few snide insults too. That's how he proves how very smart he is.

Yeah. Right.


----------



## Fstbttms

And dont'cha just hate when people go out of their way to put the quote at the bottom of their reply? Fingernails on a chalkboard, IMHO.


----------



## Mantus Anchors

Guys, be nice! We are a community... no? Life is to short for this silliness... 
Greg


----------



## SimonV




----------



## Fstbttms

SimonV said:


>


Actually, I have seen that compressor sold on eBay as part of a super-cheapo hookah rig, much as was previously described (complete with a pool-toy snorkel somehow attached to the end of the air hose.) So I suppose it *can* supply a diver with air. Can it provide enough to adequately supply a diver who is exerting himself while cleaning a boat bottom? Who knows.


----------



## SimonV

This might help









At 20' it will still deliver 127 Lpm double what you should need.


----------



## denverd0n

My concern would be the 17.4 psi limitation. Standard air pressure is 14.7 psi. At a depth of 10 feet, the water pressure is 1.3 atmospheres, or about 19.1 psi. So this compressor cannot even pump air down 10 feet underwater, let alone get enough volume down to a diver that deep.

And then, is the flow rating at the full 17.4 or is that "free flow." A lot of compressors, in order to "pump up" their numbers, will list free flow volume and maximum psi, and not mention that at maximum psi the flow is going to be WAAAAY less.

Edit:

Oops! Just realized that my math is wrong. I was including the 1 atmosphere of pressure that we start with at sea level. So, if this thing can pump 17.4 psi then it can pump air down almost 40 feet. The question remains, though, if it will actually deliver the full flow at that depth.

And then, most of the regulators that I've seen that are made for hookah diving are adjusted to work with 40-60 psi of delivered air pressure. "Normal" scuba regulators work with around 100 psi of delivered air pressure. Obviously, these regulators would not work with that compressor, which may be why the ebay sellers plumb it to a snorkel, instead of a real regulator.


----------



## Fstbttms

denverd0n said:


> ...which may be why the ebay sellers plumb it to a snorkel, instead of a real regulator.


I guarantee that's the reason. And since there is no regulator, excess air (assuming there is any) must be continuously exhausted. If you ever dived with a regulator that was "free-flowing", you know what a PITA this is.


----------



## Navigator Wannabe

Wow, now we really have the (inappropriate language for a sailing thread removed by tdw) : 40 feet on a McGuivered Wallmart Hooka! Ouch!

*For anyone considering such a thing: DON'T.
*
When I was saying the el cheap hookah might work, I meant FOR SHALLOW HULL WORK.
Less than 12 feet, depths that one can easily surface from if the thing stops.

Someone who is looking at 40 feet+ dives, should really heed ALL the safety advice given by others earlier in the thread.
Get certified, or at least read and understand the book.
Understand dive times.
Get reasonably fail safe equipment.

etc.

[and girls: the current post BELONGS above the quoted text. 
That's how it is done.
Reason is that one re-reads the quoted text only when he has to. 
Like you two should have. :laugher]



denverd0n said:


> My concern would be the 17.4 psi limitation. Standard air pressure is 14.7 psi. At a depth of 10 feet, the water pressure is 1.3 atmospheres, or about 19.1 psi. So this compressor cannot even pump air down 10 feet underwater, let alone get enough volume down to a diver that deep.
> 
> And then, is the flow rating at the full 17.4 or is that "free flow." A lot of compressors, in order to "pump up" their numbers, will list free flow volume and maximum psi, and not mention that at maximum psi the flow is going to be WAAAAY less.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Oops! Just realized that my math is wrong. I was including the 1 atmosphere of pressure that we start with at sea level. So, if this thing can pump 17.4 psi then it can pump air down almost 40 feet. The question remains, though, if it will actually deliver the full flow at that depth.
> 
> And then, most of the regulators that I've seen that are made for hookah diving are adjusted to work with 40-60 psi of delivered air pressure. "Normal" scuba regulators work with around 100 psi of delivered air pressure. Obviously, these regulators would not work with that compressor, which may be why the ebay sellers plumb it to a snorkel, instead of a real regulator.


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## Fstbttms

Navigator Wannabe said:


> Wow, now we really have the retarded leading the blind


Buh-bye


----------



## SimonV

THE MATH BEHIND OPEN END SYSTEMS
One way to measure the volume is how long it takes to empty an inverted container, corrected for a pressure of 15 psi,
the pressure at 32 feet deep, above atmospheric pressure at the surface of the water. One foot of water is about 1/2
psi.(Actually, it's closer to 14.7/32=0.459 psi per foot of water depth)
The absolute pressure(Pabs.) would be:
Pabs=14.7(sea level) + 1/2d, where d=the depth of water to the discharge depth
of the compressor hose.
Using:
(P1)(V1)(T1)=(P2)(V2)(T2) (gas law), where pis pressure, V is volume and T is temperature
in degrees absolute.
V2=(P1)(V1)/(P2) where T1=T2 and the pressures are absolute pressures.
Let P2=pressure of water at the discharge depth, and let P1 = 14.7
P2= (14.7 + 0.459d), so the equation becomes:
V=(14.7)(V1)/(14.7 + 0.459d)
So, if your compressor produces 200 cuft/hr at the surface, at a depth of 20 feet,
it will produce:
V(@20 ft)=(14.7)(200)/(14.7 + 0.459 x 20)
=2940/(14-7 + 9.18)
=2940/23.88
=120(approx) cuft.
If there is any heating of the air, during compression and subsequent cooling
of the air, in the diver's supply line, then temperature must be taken into
consideration and the T2 = the discharge air temperature (measured) and
T1=exit air from the compressor output port. I don't think that the difference
is too significant to the calculation, pressures are the overriding
factors, since on the absolute temperature scale (459 degrees Absolute, Rankine,
= zero Fahrenheit, so (example) 60 degrees F =519 degrees R).
The minimum needed at 32 feet is 100-120 cuft/hour, but 150-180 cufh would
BE SAFER.


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## denverd0n

Wow. Talk about misinterpreting something, Navigator Wannabe!

I simply said that the compressor was capable of pushing air down 40 feet. I did not recommend that it be used at that depth. I didn't even come close to IMPLYING that it could be used at that depth. In fact, I specifically expressed my doubts about its ability to supply adequate air at that depth.

But I guess calling people names is a lot easier than actually reading what they are saying, and responding on topic to the thread.


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## Ritchard

I cannot understand why you people keep debating this thread. It's like arguing which framing hammer is best to bash yourself in the head with.


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## Yachts66

For those who know more than I, does hose labeled for "food use" qualify as acceptable for breathing hose?


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## Fstbttms

Yachts66 said:


> For those who know more than I, does hose labeled for "food use" qualify as acceptable for breathing hose?


Probably. What is it you intend to use?


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## Ritchard

Yachts66 said:


> For those who know more than I, does hose labeled for "food use" qualify as acceptable for breathing hose?


Is it going to be crush resistant at pressure?


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## Fstbttms

Ritchard said:


> Is it going to be crush resistant at pressure?


Good question.


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## kellysails

Man, I think I would save my pennies and go this route. Life is too precious. Additionally, as I understand it, the person in the pictures provides the needed private instruction. Now you can't beat that.

Hookamax Dive Systems


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## neverknow

kellysails said:


> as I understand it, the person in the pictures provides the needed private instruction. Now you can't beat that.
> 
> Hookamax Dive Systems


Those tanks certainly look big enough....


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## Yachts66

Hose for a hookah system I'm thinking about.

Don't anticipate going more than 10m or so, so I don't think the hose will crush, it's very similar to standard air compressor hose you find at HD, but is made of more human friendly materials and is clean.....or so they tell me.


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## Fstbttms

Yachts66 said:


> Hose for a hookah system I'm thinking about.
> 
> Don't anticipate going more than 10m or so, so I don't think the hose will crush, it's very similar to standard air compressor hose you find at HD, but is made of more human friendly materials and is clean.....or so they tell me.


Post a link.


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## kellysails

Yachts66 said:


> Hose for a hookah system I'm thinking about.
> 
> Don't anticipate going more than 10m or so, so I don't think the hose will crush, it's very similar to standard air compressor hose you find at HD, but is made of more human friendly materials and is clean.....or so they tell me.


Maybe the thing to do here is to purchase the hose from a reputable dive shop. Not sure I would go the industrial hose route. IMHO


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## hellosailor

"from a reputable dive shop"
There are many industrial suppliers for the food service business, and they deal with FDA and similar approvals all the time. Dive shops? Reputable dive shops? There are some, but there are also a lot of gamesplayers at dive shops. Guys who bought into the dream, got bitter trying to make a profit, and now running their shop by any means they can. I know one that does a "VIP Plus" on every tank--including the modern steel ones it is not needed or suitable for. And he charges extra for it. 
Then there are the hydro shops, who you would expect to be even more reputable than the dive shops since a hydro is so critical. Ever try to get a "plus" hydro on a tank? DOT says all a tech has to do is run the higher pressure, do the math, and stamp the tank if it passes. But no one will do that simple thing, apparently because the "+" punch tool would cost $125, and then they'd have to offer two different services with all the attendant chances for mixups. So they all (all) lie about how hard it is, or how regulated it is.
Reputable? Eh, the guys who worry about food inspectors sound more reputable to me.


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## kellysails

hellosailor said:


> "from a reputable dive shop"
> There are many industrial suppliers for the food service business, and they deal with FDA and similar approvals all the time. Dive shops? Reputable dive shops? There are some, but there are also a lot of gamesplayers at dive shops. Guys who bought into the dream, got bitter trying to make a profit, and now running their shop by any means they can. I know one that does a "VIP Plus" on every tank--including the modern steel ones it is not needed or suitable for. And he charges extra for it.
> Then there are the hydro shops, who you would expect to be even more reputable than the dive shops since a hydro is so critical. Ever try to get a "plus" hydro on a tank? DOT says all a tech has to do is run the higher pressure, do the math, and stamp the tank if it passes. But no one will do that simple thing, apparently because the "+" punch tool would cost $125, and then they'd have to offer two different services with all the attendant chances for mixups. So they all (all) lie about how hard it is, or how regulated it is.
> Reputable? Eh, the guys who worry about food inspectors sound more reputable to me.


Yeah, hear ya on that one. The shops are really struggling out there. I have the same view on the whole marine industry. That was one of the reasons I got out of diving. May do it again once we relocate to warmer climes. It's just the fact of it being an extension of your lung's airway system. Not sure it is an area to skimp on. That's just me but I understand where you are coming from.


----------



## PorFin

Back when I was doing a lot more diving than I do these days, I managed to do my part to keep these guys in business:

Scuba Equipment, Scuba Gear Scuba Diving Equipment Discount dive gear Snorkeling Equipment Wetsuits GoPro Cameras Cheap online

I'm not affiliated, but was always a satisfied customer. Quality gear at very competitive prices, great service, free shipping... What's not to like?


----------



## Yachts66

PorFin, those guys don't carry Hookah stuff. Nice web site though.

I'm location challenged. I spend a good bit of my time now here in the Philippines, so it's not like I can run down to the local dive shop. Yes, we do have local dive shops, but they are mostly rental agencies with little equipment actually for sale and Hookah is a bad word because they make good money filling tanks! All of which adds a level of complexity to this process and is why I am looking at putting my own system together as there aren't any alternatives in these parts.....at least not at a price a normal person can afford.


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## rcontrera

It is true that you will pay $3500 on up for a scuba compressor that pumps safe air. But a proper low pressure compressor system using the right hose, regulator or mask and filtration will cost as much as $1000 ... even in the PI!

Lots of things have been brought up here and some of them are gold and some pure BS.

So, lets start with air source. 

A scuba tank with a long hose is great since it is filled with filtered grade E air. The drawback is that most second stage regulators (the part that goes in your mouth) and breathe harder the deeper you go. Additionally, you have no indication of how much air is left in the tank until you run low and it gets *REALLY *hard to draw a breath.
Next is a compressor. You *can *use just about any compressor that can put out the proper flow rate. Remember, when you are underwater pulling a wrench or scrubbing the bottom, you are breathing harder than if you are just sitting on the deck. Plus, even though it is pretty shallow at the keel, the increased density of the air means higher flow rate. Commercial compressors for 20' or less are 12 CFM or bigger so go with something that size.
Next is filtration.

The act of compressing air increased the density. But, since water is not compressible, the humidity level is greatly increased. Plus, there is always a little carryover from whatever lubrication is used in the compressor. so, a proper moisture separator will remove a bunch of the moisture and then you follow with a chemical filter bed. Additionally, any compressor will impart an odor/taste into the air so you will need a charcoal filter as well to sweeten the air. And ... NO ... those cheap plastic air filters just don't cut it.
Air storage

It is important to have a backup air source should your compressor shut down. Most LP compressors are available with a holding tank. If you are pumping away and working at depth and run out of gas, propane, electricity or squirrel food, the compressor stops. Believe or not, you can generally hear a compressor running through the air hose and, if the sound stops, the volume tank gives you enough to safely make your ascent.
The regulator

Standard SCUBA regulators are built to operate at from between 120 and 175 PSI and are pretty finicky. If the feed pressure drops a a couple of pounds, it becomes a little harder to breath. For a low pressure compressor, there are special compressors meant to operate at lower pressures and are a little more difficult to find.
The feed hose to the regulator needs to be made of the proper material. Cheap rubber hose breaks down rapidly and tastes terrible! Cheaper vinyl hose tastes terrible all the time! Get proper breathing air hose. It ain't cheap but makes working under the keep a *LOT *more comfortable.

OK ... all that said ... forget the DIY hooka system. You bought a boat to travel and enjoy yourself. Learn scuba, bring your gear aboard and dive in cool locations.


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## Fstbttms

For the most part, Ray gives good advice above. I would take exception with three points, primarily because I feel he didn't give them enough emphasis:

1.- In a DIY system you should use an oil-less compressor *only*.

2.- Depending on how you plan to use your hookah, air storage and the associated plumbing are not necessary. For hull cleaning, I would say there is no need.

3.- This cannot be stressed enough; only mil-spec breathing hose should be used. It's not a matter of how the air tastes or the hose degrading or whatever. It's a matter of breathing poison or not.


----------



## DivingOtter

I use a ROL-AIR compressor with my company on basic jobs and a Quincy diesel for deep dives. If you are not using an oilless compressor you MUST USE MONOLEC! Monolec is one of the only approved oils for compressors PERIOD! I would steer clear on making your own unless you really know dive physics and dive medicine. We buy the bare compressors but plumb the fittings and in line filters ourselves when we are not using HP Bottle Banks. That being said DO NOT use cheap pvc hose. Get yourself a legitmate breathing hose approved for diving. Also , that compressor needs to be pumping out enough CFM and PSI to get the air down to you. Its not as simple as throwing a reg in your mouth and going for it, there is ALOT of math going into diving that needs to be considered. If you really want a compressor I reccomend buying a premade off the shelf model. If you are going shallow like under a hull just get a hookah off the bottle set up, but DONT try to make your own. The only reason we do it is we are trained and experienced. Its not something you want to skimp out on or try to save money.


----------



## MedSailor

Great response Ray, thanks. Below that are additions by two professionals who work in the field and literally live or die by this technology. Gotta love SailNet. 

I would only add the emphasis again that SCUBA certification is necessary AND worthwhile. It's cheap (usually under $150) and they teach you the stuff you didn't even know you didn't know that WILL kill you if you didn't learn it.

Additionally, getting a small pony tank + reg could be one option for additional safety instead of the stored air in the compressor tank. More redundant, but much more expensive and filling the tank is an issue as you need a SCUBA compressor. There is also a self contained unit called Spare Air that you could take down with you also, but again at increased cost and difficulty filling.










I do think the DIY can be done safely *if you really do your homework*, but as has been mentioned before, a purpose-built hooka system off E-bay is probably the safest/cheapest/best option proposed so far IMHO.

MedSailor


----------



## Fstbttms

MedSailor said:


> I do think the DIY can be done safely *if you really do your homework*, but as has been mentioned before, a purpose-built hooka system off E-bay is probably the safest/cheapest/best option proposed so far IMHO.


As I've mentioned before, the purpose-built hookahs sold on e-Bay are, for the most part, based on cheap, Chinese compressors that anybody can buy at Home Depot for a couple hundred bucks. The sellers are simply guys in their garages putting together the absolute most low-budget hookahs they can, and then marketing them on e-Bay as high end surface-supplied air rigs. They are junk and will not survive long in a marine environment.

In reality there are only a couple really reputable recreational-level hookah sellers in this country and they are Airline by J. Sink and Brownie's.

Air Line Diving System | The Air Line by J. Sink
Brownie's Third Lung Diving, Hookah Surface Supplied Air Systems |


----------



## Minnewaska

I have nothing against belt and suspenders, so one can carry Spare Air, if they must.

However, if you can not do a no air ascent from 6 feet, you should not be cleaning your hull on compressed air.


----------



## MedSailor

Fstbttms said:


> As I've mentioned before, the purpose-built hookahs sold on e-Bay are, for the most part, based on cheap, Chinese compressors that anybody can buy at Home Depot for a couple hundred bucks. The sellers are simply guys in their garages putting together the absolute most low-budget hookahs they can, and then marketing them on e-Bay as high end surface-supplied air rigs. They are junk and will not survive long in a marine environment.
> 
> In reality there are only a couple really reputable recreational-level hookah sellers in this country and they are Airline by J. Sink and Brownie's.
> 
> Air Line Diving System | The Air Line by J. Sink
> Brownie's Third Lung Diving, Hookah Surface Supplied Air Systems |


Thanks for clarifying this for me! I did not know that there were garage-built "dive compressors" for sale on ebay, though I should not be surprised. When I recommended buying a compressor off ebay, I meant a used brownies third lung or other commercially manufactured unit.

MedSailor


----------



## hellosailor

I'd suggest that SpareAir, in this context, is just one of the many ways dive shops are using FUD to sell more gear and make more profit. There is absolutely no need for "reserve" air if you are working on a recreational sailboat, where you will simply never be more than ten feet below the surface.

If someone can't hold their head together and make a free ascent from ten feet, even on empty lungs, THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Period.

All the extra gear in the world won't help someone who simply should not be there. The trend in the diving industry today is to insist that divers need computers, spare air, and K valves because J (reserve) valves are too dangerous. Bullpuckey! I'd rather have one cam and one spring (the J valve) and know that it is my job to ensure it has not fouled or tripped, than to rely on an extra five pounds of gear, more valving, a second regulator, and a batch of electronics and o-rings and batteries.

Most dive shops can only survive if they can figure out a clever way to get money on a regular basis, more and more every year. Most, not all. Very few dive shops or locations have been around for 30-40 years, they seem to typically last maybe ten years and then dry up and blow away. To stick around, they need a hook (contract with a local college or municipal first responders or a boat and resort location etc.) and even then, everyone is trying to sell more, often at obscene prices.

Like the push to do VIP+ instead of a VIP, all the time, when VIP+ is simply needless on new tanks or steel tanks. "Oh, we do it all the time" shouldn't be my problem, it isn't appropriate and it wastes my money.

Then there are the shops that all "require" a current VIP after a hydro. Require? The DOT requires a visual inspection before the hydro test, and that tester has been trained and certified to do it. So why should an unregulated dive shop require a redundant VIP by some dive association franschisee on top of that? Oh, well, so they can make $15 for a five minute looksee.

Sorry, guys, but while I readily agree with what I was taught, that diving can easily kill you, I also think the whole recreational/sport diving industry is based on FUD not safety. I've had too much crud turn up in tanks that were only filled by certified shops, and heard too much BS from the operators.

And I most firmly think NASDS was right and every other organization was wrong: You've GOT to do panic screening and you've GOT to fail some students, if they just don't have the presence of mind to be safe divers. 

DIY hookah? Hell, Jacques Costeau used DIY equipment when he started. Maybe he was lucky as well as skilled. But diving on a sailboat, which is no deeper than diving in most pools, isn't quite the same as maintaining oil drilling equipment in the North Sea.

If the air is of a safe breathing quality, all the rest is details. Except the suitability of the diver.


----------



## MedSailor

hellosailor said:


> I'd suggest that SpareAir, in this context, is just one of the many ways dive shops are using FUD to sell more gear and make more profit. There is absolutely no need for "reserve" air if you are working on a recreational sailboat, where you will simply never be more than ten feet below the surface.
> 
> If someone can't hold their head together and make a free ascent from ten feet, even on empty lungs, THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Period.


Agree with this part, but some of the Brownies third lung systems are rated to a depth of 90ft. Personally I'd like some kind of redundancy at that depth. J-valve to pony, pony with reg, or spareair or a straw to suck the air out of your drysuit . No need for a backup if the system is for changing zincs.

Of course, one DIY system that won't contaminate your lungs is the $10 system developed and used by Motessier. On page 167 of his book "sailing to the reefs" he details a system of upturned buckets, weights, lines and other bits. He was able to use this system (with his friend refilling the buckets of air, upturning them and sending them down to him with a weighted line. Simplicity itself. 

Check it out free here on google books:
Sailing to the Reefs - Bernard Moitessier, Rene Hague - Google Books

MedSailor


----------



## hellosailor

He seems to have re-invented the 4th century BC diving bell as described by Aristotle and others, 



 and added some complications and a hose so that a small bell not enclosing the diver could be used. 2500 years of progress.


----------



## DivingOtter

Dont forget if you ran out of air at 6 feet and held your breath on the way up in a panic you will most likely be in a serious world of hurt. If you dont know what im talking about look up Boyles law and Pulmonary Overinflation.


----------



## Yachts66

True, but if you can't do a free ascent from 6 feet, you should not be using diving equipment either. Or 10 feet or 20 feet or even 30 feet in my view. That's just me though.


----------



## kellysails

Not related to last post, just a thought:
When you free ascend you take in air at sea level so it would be impossible to cause issues like you would see with tank or hookah diving. I think that is the biggest risk with hookah diving without a diving cert, you really need to understand the problems that can occur if you hold your breath on ascent. My dive instructor did the classic example of a balloon filled at depth then released to the surface. It got the point across well.


----------



## Brent Swain

I have a Brownies. Dumped the float and base, put it in the dinghy, much less stuff to store and carry around. Friends use a $130 generator ,hooked up to a $149 oil less compressor for hull cleaning. Works well. Raise the air intake as high as possible on an extension tube. A snorkel with a purge valve works as well as a regulator. Old Johnson Air buoys used that principle.


----------



## Yachts66

kellysails said:


> When you free ascend you take in air at sea level so it would be impossible to cause issues like you would see with tank or hookah diving.


I'm not being picky, but this statement is technically wrong and dangerous. A free ascent is defined as: "An emergency procedure used to return to the surface. The diver swims or floats to the surface while breathing all the way up." If you hold your breath at any time during a free ascent you are placing yourself in harms way. The balloon example is a good one and if nothing else highlights why no one should use compressed air diving equipment without proper instruction in it's use. Which I think was the point of this post, but unfortunately the wrong term was used.

Free diving is when you take your breath at the surface, hold it, and dive to depth, then return to the surface still holding your breath. In this scenario, there is no danger of an embolism since compressed gases were not introduced into the lungs.

I think we can all now agree that diving in the absence of proper training is a very dangerous thing to do. I think we can also agree that building ones own diving rig is not small undertaking and care must be taken to use equipment and materials that are up to the intended task. Beyond that, I also think we are, at this point, beating a dead horse.


----------



## DivingOtter

Ill stick with my Kirby Morgan thank you


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## rcontrera

DivingOtter said:


> Ill stick with my Kirby Morgan thank you


A GREAT piece of equipment! However, it is designed for commercial divers and this thread is all about hooka diving. Most of the people here are just doing a little light maintenance like hull wipe, inspecting or zinc changes. or maybe they are more interested in looking at pretty fish.

You, on the other hand are a working guy and diving is basically your way of getting to work.


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## utzdawg

Really, dont ever use a normal air compressor for an air source. First off, commercial offshore diving services all use deisel dive compressors that have various engines (325, all the way up to 5120's) which the output in volume at depth is calculated by a very knowledgeable person. Second, they are specifically designed with water traps( air filters) to screen out that bad **** such as bugs, rust, you name it. Thirdly, they use two oils. One.for the engine that powers the air pistons and then a breathable synthetic oil for the actual lubrication of the pistons. You can buy seperate volume tanks, engines and compressors to piece them together which would be alot cheaper then paying 8 grand on a beat down 325. 
Also. Another alternative would be just to get an airpack of hp bottles. You can rent whatever medium youd like however at 14 ft - 50 foot youll only need air, unless you do inwater deco stops using 02. Thats a whole nother ball park. Get yourself two hp bottles, have them professionally inspected. Then order 3/8' inch air hose for a dive umbilical. Youll need a air regulatlor for the bottle manifold and of course the second stage for your mouth. If you call divers supply in belle chase la they can tell exactly what you needs. The hp air bottle rack is always emergency air for divers offshore. This would be a more realistic way to surface supply dive without spending a fortune.


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## Fstbttms

utzdawg said:


> Really, dont ever use a normal air compressor for an air source.


All commercially-available, recreational-level hookahs are based on repurposed oilless air compressors and they are 100% safe for surface supplied air. Virtually the entire hull cleaning industry uses them and has for decades. I have been using various rigs I've built myself for over 18 years and 20,000+ dives. To infer that it is unsafe to use any air source that hasn't been vetted by the hard hat commercial dive industry is ludicrous. The guy is talking about cleaning his boat bottom, for Christ's sake. He doesn't need an $8000 diesel compressor.


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## hellosailor

My limited understanding is that all of the modern "oil-less" compressors are in fact oil free (except possibly manufacturing/machining traces) because they use teflon rings instead of oiled ones. And that is why the small tire-inflator types easily overheat and burn out, from the teflon melting if they are run too long.

Not a question of oil type of quality, just a different piece of equipment that simply does not use oil at all, so it can't contaminate the airflow.

Assuming it has properly cleaned of manufacturing traces during assembly.


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## erps

Just a quick question about holding one's breath on an ascent after breathing compressed air. Wouldn't one naturally want to exhale as the chest expands? I've been a diver for almost 30 years and a snorkeler for almost 45 years. I've compacted the air in my lungs on the surface for a deeper free dive and it's difficult to slurp in a little more air. It's hard for me to imagine someone holding their breath and popping their lungs without warning signs from the body, but I read the warnings all the time on the internet.


----------



## Fstbttms

erps said:


> Just a quick question about holding one's breath on an ascent after breathing compressed air. Wouldn't one naturally want to exhale as the chest expands?


It's not natural to want to exhale as you ascend. You have to train yourself to do it until it becomes second nature.


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## hellosailor

erps-
Have you ever overeaten "until you were stuffed" perhaps at a holiday dinner? Stomache is fully distended, stuffed, but folks keep eating.
Similar for the lungs, they may be full but someone is tense and afraid to exhale and lose air. IIRC the lungs can burst with as little as a 4psi pressure difference, and the kicker is that normally there may be "thin spots" in the lungs, that present no problem when there is no pressure differential on them. But with compressed air, if a thin spot blows out, now you've got pneumothorax and a problem. 
Akin to the way you may have been told not to hold your nose & mouth when you sneeze, because your lungs _can _blow out your eardrums.

I don't conciously exhale while surfacing, but I had problems learning to control my breath with an open nose in the water. Eventually "trained" my throat to just hold back the water pressure and on the way up, to allow air to leak out as it needs to. Which is probably not describing it accurately, but the air goes out and the pressure stays balanced.


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## Minnewaska

The concern over expanding air is not that your lung will explode like a popped balloon, although, that would happen in the extreme. Its the expansion of air in the tiniest sacks, the alveoli, where the blood-gas exchange takes place. Burst a few of those, introduce air into the blood stream and you would be fortunate with paralysis from the embolism. The odds of heart failure or a stroke are what could kill you. As the air expands in those little sacs, its need a place to vent to or they will rupture long before you feel your lungs are over inflated.


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## denverd0n

Minnewaska said:


> Its the expansion of air in the tiniest sacks, the alveoli, where the blood-gas exchange takes place.


Exactly. And that can happen long before you ever feel like your lungs are full.


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## sandboy

I had to comment on this forum My sailing Club has built and are in use by a number of yachts the Boyu Aquarium Pump 17.4PSI, Hose made for breathing 30meters and a normal snorkle with a relief valve near the mouth piece most good snorkles come with this WE ARE NOT TRYING TO BUILD A HOOKAH we just want to dive under our boats to do maitence including cleaning the bottom replacement anodes etc the system only works to three meters but thats all we need the worse thing to happen is it stops and in that case you swim to the surface remember we are only down 2 meters most of the time the pump ,pumps air along the hose and all excess comes out the relief valve so no regulator is needed you just use the snorkle as if you was swimming on the surface forget all the do gooders here who think we are building a pressurized system just remember this system is being used for some years now with no body growing a second head or dieing mine has stopped once and as i said i just surfaced


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## Minnewaska

sandboy, I looked up Boyu and it was hard to tell which pump you are using. I hope it's at least oil free. The problem, as I see it, with home made stuff, is the quality of the air. Unless you can't breath it at all, it's highly unlikely that one is going to notice any ill effect at the time of use. In fact, if there were damage to your lungs, you may not know for a decade or more. The inhalation of asbestos fibers, for example, can take 15 years to precipitate lung cancer. Not that I'm suggesting they are in your pump, I'm only making the point that surfacing alone is not a sufficient safety statement.

I did notice this unit, which looks interesting. I will be curious what our FastBottoms thinks of it.

Hailea ACO-007 12V DC 140L/min Air Compressor Pump [ACO-007] - $149.00 : BOYU Australia!, Aquarium & Pond Supplies, Fish Pumps & Filters


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## rcontrera

sandboy said:


> WE ARE NOT TRYING TO BUILD A HOOKAH


You actually ARE building a hookah. By pumping air down to you at depth, you are having to overcome water pressure. Yes, at two meters it is only about 3 psi but that is still pressurized air. Your snorkel "relief valve" (actually a drain valve for clearing water) is a very simple regulator since pressure on the inside has to be higher than the water pressure to open.

However, that little bit of pressure is enough to do lung damage if not exhaled while ascending.

As for the air quality ... the human body is pretty resilient so, while breathing oily air can cause a type of pneumonia, the oil film in the lungs can eventually clear out in non smokers. For smokers ... well ... you don't really care about your lungs anyway so go ahead and breath oil too!


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## Minnewaska

rcontrera said:


> ......while breathing oily air can cause a type of pneumonia, the oil film in the lungs can eventually clear out in non smokers. For smokers ... well ... you don't really care about your lungs anyway so go ahead and breath oil too!


I've often wondered how many smokers have watched a loved one die of lung cancer. It's long, slow, excruciating and agonizing. The sufferer never gets a break.

I will pass on having a type of pneumonia or waiting for my healthy lungs to clear an oil film layer.


----------



## denverd0n

sandboy said:


> ...forget all the do gooders here who think we are building a pressurized system...


Wow. Just wow. How incredibly mis-informed can a human being be?

No matter what you may (mistakenly) believe, you ARE using a pressurized system. You ARE breathing pressurized air. And you most definitely ARE at risk of an air embolism.

I'm very happy to hear that you have been so incredibly lucky, and no one has died yet using this Rube Goldberg system of yours. But then, almost every week, someone does win the lottery, so luck can be a funny thing. One of these days your luck is going to run out.

To anyone else reading this... Please, GOD!, do not make the mistake of doing anything even remotely as dumb as to cobble together a system like this, and most especially do not delude yourself into thinking that this is not a "hookah" or that it is not using pressurized air! SHEESH!


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## Fstbttms

Minnewaska said:


> I did notice this unit, which looks interesting. I will be curious what our FastBottoms thinks of it.
> 
> Hailea ACO-007 12V DC 140L/min Air Compressor Pump [ACO-007] - $149.00 : BOYU Australia!, Aquarium & Pond Supplies, Fish Pumps & Filters


Hookahs based on these cheap little compressors seem to be popular in OZ, based on the number of them for sale on eBay. While I am sure they are probably safe to use, I wouldn't be caught dead with one.


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## IStream

FYI, my homebrew hookah setup:

- Rolair JC10 oilless compressor (same basic quiet Chinese unit as the California Air Tools but with better cylinder head heatsinking and an automatic solenoid that decompresses the cylinders during startup to reduce inrush current demand)

- SMC AF30-N02-Z air filter 5 microns

- Hose and tether sourced from Airline

- Used (inspected and warranted) hookah regulator and weights from local dive shop

Total cost, about $400.


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## hellosailor

17.4 psi rating, intended for 30 meter depths?

That would add up to a big "DANGER WILL ROBINSON!" warning. At 30 meters the ambient pressure will be well above 17.4psi, _actually slightly over 58 psi_, indicating that whoever manufactured and 'rated' that equipment has no idea of what they are doing. So even if they called it oil-free, you'd have to doubt that as well.

Sometimes it pays to ask "If it was this easy, wouldn't someone already be selling it?"


----------



## Jd1

hellosailor said:


> 17.4 psi rating, intended for 30 meter depths?


Sometimes it pays to re-read  30 meter length of hose NOT depth of dive


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## hellosailor

jd, rereading wouldn't help. You're _translating _it differently from how I did.(G)

Your translation _does _make better sense though.


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## sandboy

I knew this would happen and had the back up ready to fire back firstly the Boyu pump is oiless in fact all there fish tank pumps are other wise there would be a lot of dead fish we also had the Air Quality checked by one of the members who just happens to be a specialist at A university here the air was found to be as pure as that we breathe I have also included a small charcoal filter to make sure 
SO BAAA HUM BUG TO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE SHARES IN DIVING COMPANIES AND HOOKAH SYSTEMS WE HAVE PROVEN THE SYSTEM WORKS AND THE AIR IS GOOD 
I HAVNT USED THE SITE MUCH HAVE HAD MY SAY AND WILL NOW MOVE ON AND GO SAILING I WONT READ ANY MORE REPLIES BECAUSE I KNOW YOU CAN'T HELP YOURSELVES HAPPY SAILING I KNOW I WILL WITH THE TIME I SAVE CLEANING THE BOTTOM :laugher:laugheruke


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## scratchee

Next time you go diving, see if you can locate your lost period key.


----------



## sandboy

Minnewaska said:


> sandboy, I looked up Boyu and it was hard to tell which pump you are using. I hope it's at least oil free. The problem, as I see it, with home made stuff, is the quality of the air. Unless you can't breath it at all, it's highly unlikely that one is going to notice any ill effect at the time of use. In fact, if there were damage to your lungs, you may not know for a decade or more. The inhalation of asbestos fibers, for example, can take 15 years to precipitate lung cancer. Not that I'm suggesting they are in your pump, I'm only making the point that surfacing alone is not a sufficient safety statement.
> 
> I did notice this unit, which looks interesting. I will be curious what our FastBottoms thinks of it.
> 
> Hailea ACO-007 12V DC 140L/min Air Compressor Pump [ACO-007] - $149.00 : BOYU Australia!, Aquarium & Pond Supplies, Fish Pumps & Filters


All Boyu pumps are oiless if they weren't there would be a lot of dead fish in aquariums they are sold as so


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## sandboy

rcontrera said:


> You actually ARE building a hookah. By pumping air down to you at depth, you are having to overcome water pressure. Yes, at two meters it is only about 3 psi but that is still pressurized air. Your snorkel "relief valve" (actually a drain valve for clearing water) is a very simple regulator since pressure on the inside has to be higher than the water pressure to open.
> 
> However, that little bit of pressure is enough to do lung damage if not exhaled while ascending.
> 
> As for the air quality ... the human body is pretty resilient so, while breathing oily air can cause a type of pneumonia, the oil film in the lungs can eventually clear out in non smokers. For smokers ... well ... you don't really care about your lungs anyway so go ahead and breath oil too!


Because the regulator is always open the air is pumped continually through the system there is no build up of pressure and as I've alread said at the end of this forum one of our members is a scientist at one of a our major universities here the pump we are using is oiless being made especially for fish tanks so before the air was even tested if the air wasn't pure there would be a lot of very angry tropical fish owners but having said that when the air produced by this system was tested it was as good as the air you breath with no impurities


----------



## sandboy

denverd0n said:


> Wow. Just wow. How incredibly mis-informed can a human being be?
> 
> No matter what you may (mistakenly) believe, you ARE using a pressurized system. You ARE breathing pressurized air. And you most definitely ARE at risk of an air embolism.
> 
> I'm very happy to hear that you have been so incredibly lucky, and no one has died yet using this Rube Goldberg system of yours. But then, almost every week, someone does win the lottery, so luck can be a funny thing. One of these days your luck is going to run out.
> 
> To anyone else reading this... Please, GOD!, do not make the mistake of doing anything even remotely as dumb as to cobble together a system like this, and most especially do not delude yourself into thinking that this is not a "hookah" or that it is not using pressurized air! SHEESH!


We have tested this system as i have quoted because the exit valve is always open the air comes in and goes straight through the system and exits there is no build up of pressure the pumps are oiless and the air tested and found pure you obviously have shares in the Hooka company


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## sandboy

hellosailor said:


> 17.4 psi rating, intended for 30 meter depths?
> 
> That would add up to a big "DANGER WILL ROBINSON!" warning. At 30 meters the ambient pressure will be well above 17.4psi, _actually slightly over 58 psi_, indicating that whoever manufactured and 'rated' that equipment has no idea of what they are doing. So even if they called it oil-free, you'd have to doubt that as well.
> 
> Sometimes it pays to ask "If it was this easy, wouldn't someone already be selling it?"


We are diving at most the depth of our yachts where did 30 meters come from more like one and a half to two meters


----------



## sandboy

minnewaska said:


> i've often wondered how many smokers have watched a loved one die of lung cancer. It's long, slow, excruciating and agonizing. The sufferer never gets a break.
> 
> I will pass on having a type of pneumonia or waiting for my healthy lungs to clear an oil film layer.


the pump is totally oiless built for very expensive tropical fish


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## Fstbttms

sandboy said:


> Because the regulator is always open the air is pumped continually through the system there is no build up of pressure and as I've alread said at the end of this forum one of our members is a scientist at one of a our major universities here the pump we are using is oiless being made especially for fish tanks so before the air was even tested if the air wasn't pure there would be a lot of very angry tropical fish owners but having said that when the air produced by this system was tested it was as good as the air you breath with no impurities


You clearly don't understand the argument. You are breathing compressed air underwater and that means there are inherent, potentially deadly risks involved. You would do well to take a SCUBA course before you hurt yourself.


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## denverd0n

sandboy said:


> Because the regulator is always open the air is pumped continually through the system there is no build up of pressure...


Amazing. You really haven't got the first clue about air pressure, breathing compressed air, and so on. Seriously. You need to enroll yourself in a grade school level science class. You are so wrong on so many levels in what you believe about this that it is just incredible to me.

Oh, and, I don't for a moment believe that you have actually tested the purity of the air that you are breathing. I call complete BS on that one!

Most importantly, though, again, PLEASE! For anyone else who is reading this, DO NOT BELIEVE THE NONSENSE BEING POSTED BY SANDBOY!!! He does not know what he is talking about. He and his friends are putting themselves at serious risk. Anytime that you are breathing air below the surface of the water, you ARE breathing compressed air. This can be dangerous. As fstbttms has said, you REALLY need to get some SCUBA training, in order to understand the dangers, before doing something like this.


----------



## miatapaul

scratchee said:


> Next time you go diving, see if you can locate your lost period key.


I have a feeling that key is stuck under the caps lock key. That would explain a lot.


----------



## sandboy

Fstbttms said:


> You clearly don't understand the argument. You are breathing compressed air underwater and that means there are inherent, potentially deadly risks involved. You would do well to take a SCUBA course before you hurt yourself.


We have been using this system for nearly 5 years now in fact a company here is selling this system on-line with all safety regulations in place we have copied this exact system for half the price 
so I hate to blow the hot air out of your balloon but that is all it is hot air we are only using this system to dive max of 2 meters and so far not one person has had any side effects with roughly 10.000 dives I wonder does scuba diving have such a safety record we are using oiless compressers and the air has been scientificaly test and found to be the same quality as a scuba diver would use in fact many Scuba divers here who specialize in the cleaning of hulls as there way of income are using this exact system


----------



## Fstbttms

sandboy said:


> We have been using this system for nearly 5 years now in fact a company here is selling this system on-line with all safety regulations in place we have copied this exact system for half the price
> so I hate to blow the hot air out of your balloon but that is all it is hot air we are only using this system to dive max of 2 meters and so far not one person has had any side effects with roughly 10.000 dives I wonder does scuba diving have such a safety record we are using oiless compressers and the air has been scientificaly test and found to be the same quality as a scuba diver would use in fact many Scuba divers here who specialize in the cleaning of hulls as there way of income are using this exact system


Jeezus- like talking to a stump. 

It's not the system that's the problem. It's the fact that you are breathing compressed air underwater. It's dangerous unless you know the risks to your body that are involved. This is in large part what SCUBA certification training is about. I'm realtively certain you don't know what you're doing.

BTW- your club have used this system for ten thousand dives in a five year span? I call bullsh*t.


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## denverd0n

Fstbttms said:


> Jeezus- like talking to a stump.


Yeah, which is why I see no point in talking to the stump anymore. I just hope that others reading this will realize that sandboy is chock full of BS, on top of not having a clue. I would hate to think that someone would actually take his advice, and end up harming themselves.

But it's the internet. Anybody--no matter how thick, or misinformed--can post anything they want. Have to hope that others reading this are able to recognize the BS for what it is.


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## Multihullgirl

y'all,

if the poor syntax/writing didn't give a clue, then it may be that the stump is Darwin at work...


----------



## erps

> It's not the system that's the problem. It's the fact that you are breathing compressed air underwater. It's dangerous unless you know the risks to your body that are involved.


Which is nitrogen absorbtion under pressure and the subsequent nitrogen being released into the blood stream while ascending. How much nitrogen absorbtion is there while breathing compressed air in water less than 10' deep? It's my recollection that you could breath compressed air all day long at that depth without getting killed. Right?


----------



## Fstbttms

erps said:


> Which is nitrogen absorbtion under pressure and the subsequent nitrogen being released into the blood stream while ascending. How much nitrogen absorbtion is there while breathing compressed air in water less than 10' deep? It's my recollection that you could breath compressed air all day long at that depth without getting killed. Right?


Of course he's not going to get the bends, cleaning the bottom of his Santana 22. But you can embolize in just a few feet of water.


----------



## davidpm

sandboy said:


> gooders here who think we are building a pressurized system just remember this system is being used for some years now with no body growing a second head or dieing mine has stopped once and as i said i just surfaced


So if this is not a pressurized system why do you need an airCOMPRESSOR.

Why not just use a 10' hose, in other words a really long snorkel?

The answer of course is that any deeper than about two feet and you can't suck in enough air to breath which is why it has to be pressurized with a tank, a hookah or something else that pressurizes the air.


----------



## hellosailor

sanboy, 
"30 meters" comes directly from your post. 
You said "Hose made for breathing 30meters "
and anyone who has dealt with diving, of any sort, will tell you that the only context for that remark is a hose made for breathing at 30 meters _of depth. _ We refer to "breathing at depth" and similar phrases, we never discuss how far someone or something can operate horizontally because that's just not relevant to anything. Except perhaps the operating range of vessels and torpedos.

Given the information you say you were _intentionally _withholding, again according to your own remarks, and the ungrammatic slaughter of what you have posted, it is a wonder anyone has made any sense of your postings at all.

Enjoy your kludge job. Ask your university friends if they understand what pneumothorax means, and why you can get killed by that, even in six feet of water with your aquarium pump. If they don't understand that....Well, maybe they're missing something important about why underwater breathing apparatus of any kind just isn't sold in WalMart.


----------



## scratchee

If we've beaten this horse enough maybe we can discuss my new mast climbing rig, which uses hand-held suction cups on either side of the mast. As a safety backup I'm tying the halyard around my waist and I have a friend hold onto the other end while I ascend. It's a little non-standard but the whole thing only cost me about $50.


----------



## Jd1

Guys, you are being combative here. The facts are simple - it was mentioned that the diving depth was to be 2 to 3 meters max. It is irrelavant how long the hose is because diving depth was specified. The setup that is being used is perfectly ok for the job being done and you are mixing general dive dangers with equipment dangers. Other than the pump being lightweight for the purpose at hand, everything will work just fine assuming that op knows general dive procedures. The main thing to keep in mind when diving with compressed air, even at shallow depths, is to breath out as you are going up in the water column.
Let's put this whole thing to rest !


----------



## SailRedemption

I think we should not be lamenting this guy over this but encouraging him to have the club briefed by a dive shop just so everyone using thier system knows basic scuba skills(not holding full breathe and ascending to surface after scrubbing bottom of keel). He may not know the basics or they all may have been briefed or only scuba trained people as using it, we don't know because he hasn't told us. But we're all slowly moving to a level of being jerk to this guy. 

Just remember, you were a new guy at something once in your life where you weren't a pretentious know it all.


----------



## sandboy

Fstbttms said:


> Jeezus- like talking to a stump.
> 
> It's not the system that's the problem. It's the fact that you are breathing compressed air underwater. It's dangerous unless you know the risks to your body that are involved. This is in large part what SCUBA certification training is about. I'm realtively certain you don't know what you're doing.
> 
> BTW- your club have used this system for ten thousand dives in a five year span? I call bullsh*t.


I didn't say my club has done 10.000 dives i said the system I'm using has been used by many people in a Australia including my club with a rough estimate of 10.000 dives these units are being sold with certification on E Bay I'm not going to try and convince an EMU that has his head buried in the sand
uke theres an old saying if it looks like a duck quacks like duck walks like a duck then its a duck but if this was the discussion here then you would be telling everyone its an EMUuke can i say any further letters by you will be deleted I've had my say hopfully others will copy the idea we are using with the same success but I'm done trying to convince you I'll just agree to dis-agree


----------



## sandboy

Jd1 said:


> Guys, you are being combative here. The facts are simple - it was mentioned that the diving depth was to be 2 to 3 meters max. It is irrelavant how long the hose is because diving depth was specified. The setup that is being used is perfectly ok for the job being done and you are mixing general dive dangers with equipment dangers. Other than the pump being lightweight for the purpose at hand, everything will work just fine assuming that op knows general dive procedures. The main thing to keep in mind when diving with compressed air, even at shallow depths, is to breath out as you are going up in the water column.
> Let's put this whole thing to rest !


I totally agree what this guy doesn't know he assumes or makes up he forgot to check wether i'm a certified scuba diver just took it for granted that i had no training all the guys using the system we make sure they know how to use it before there first dive thanks again for some sanity


----------



## sandboy

scratchee said:


> If we've beaten this horse enough maybe we can discuss my new mast climbing rig, which uses hand-held suction cups on either side of the mast. As a safety backup I'm tying the halyard around my waist and I have a friend hold onto the other end while I ascend. It's a little non-standard but the whole thing only cost me about $50.


I had a similar problem especially climbing a mast in a bosuns chair on small yachts the winches just over ride and when this happens you up sh!!! creek without a paddle,
so what i did is bought a climbing strap from a mountain climbing shop you pull a heavy climbing rope with a spare halyard you then sit in your bosuns chair attach one foot to the climbing rope using the climbing strap it has a cam on it all you do now is push down with you foot which lifts you out of your chair then someone just pulls the bosuns chair up till you sitting on it again there is no strength required what so ever just the strength each time to stand up the person pulling the chair up with no weight in it has an easy job you just keep repeating the procedure till your at the top its very safe and when you get up to the top sitting in the chair makes it easy to carry out the work to come back down you kick you foot free of the climbing rope and you are then just lowered in the bosuns chair you only need one person below i have lifted a 85 year old member of our club he was wrapped to be able to work on the top of his mast something he never thought would again be possible


----------



## sandboy

davidpm said:


> So if this is not a pressurized system why do you need an airCOMPRESSOR.
> 
> Why not just use a 10' hose, in other words a really long snorkel?
> 
> The answer of course is that any deeper than about two feet and you can't suck in enough air to breath which is why it has to be pressurized with a tank, a hookah or something else that pressurizes the air.


Its not an air compresser its an oiless air pump totally differant concept the air is pumped in one end and comes straight out the other end at no stage is air being put in a compressed tank when you breath in the air exiting because the purge valve closes you breath as soon as you take you breath the valve reopens and continues to pump out the open end


----------



## Fstbttms

sandboy said:


> Its not an air compresser its an oiless air pump totally differant concept the air is pumped in one end and comes straight out the other end at no stage is air being put in a compressed tank when you breath in the air exiting because the purge valve closes you breath as soon as you take you breath the valve reopens and continues to pump out the open end


You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

_*air pump - definition of air pump by The Free Dictionary
A pump for compressing, removing, or forcing a flow of air. air pump. *_

Here's the bit that you fail to grasp- it doesn't matter if your device has a resevoir tank or not. That is not what compresses the air. The piston or diaphram in your "pump" is doing that and it has to, otherwise it could not deliver air to you at depth. It is physically impossible for the machine to provide breathing air at one atmosphere below one meter of depth. It has to pressurize the air to greater than surface pressure in order to force it below that depth. Whether you believe it or not, you are breathing compressed air. And when you do this underwater, you run the very real risk of embolism or barotrauma, both of which can (and in fact, are more likely to) occur in the four feet of water closest to the surface.


----------



## denverd0n

Jd1 said:


> ...everything will work just fine assuming that op knows general dive procedures.


Which he very obviously does not, and obstinately REFUSES to learn! He keeps insisting that he is NOT breathing compressed air. Anybody with half a brain, or a grade school level of science education, would know that he IS, in fact, breathing compressed air. But he prefers to be delusional.

He more than deserves every bit of criticism that he is getting.

As I said before, my bigger worry is that someone else will read this, believe his idiocy, and think that they are not breathing compressed air when using a system like this.


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## pdqaltair

What I have learned from Sandboys posts is that he never breaths perhaps his physiology is different or physics are different I can not say but I doubt the equipment would work for me without (gasp) considerable exersize of surgical alteration but perhaps I am looking at this all wrong (gasp).


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## dlt123me

denverd0n said:


> Amazing. You really haven't got the first clue about air pressure, breathing compressed air, and so on. Seriously. You need to enroll yourself in a grade school level science class. You are so wrong on so many levels in what you believe about this that it is just incredible to me.
> 
> Oh, and, I don't for a moment believe that you have actually tested the purity of the air that you are breathing. I call complete BS on that one!
> 
> Most importantly, though, again, PLEASE! For anyone else who is reading this, DO NOT BELIEVE THE NONSENSE BEING POSTED BY SANDBOY!!! He does not know what he is talking about. He and his friends are putting themselves at serious risk. Anytime that you are breathing air below the surface of the water, you ARE breathing compressed air. This can be dangerous. As fstbttms has said, you REALLY need to get some SCUBA training, in order to understand the dangers, before doing something like this.


Because of this thread, I decided to register as a new member. I have to say, I have been considering building one of these Hookahs, but after reading the common sense and cautions here it has given me some second thoughts. I think I might consider buying from a reputable Hookah company. Money well spent in my opinion.

I am also going to take a scuba class just to learn what I am in store for if I decide to do Hookah diving. I may not go for certification, but want the knowledge.

Thanks all, both misinformed and informed for making this thread very interesting.

Dennis


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## aeventyr60

dlt123me said:


> Because of this thread, I decided to register as a new member. I have to say, I have been considering building one of these Hookahs, but after reading the common sense and cautions here it has given me some second thoughts. I think I might consider buying from a reputable Hookah company. Money well spent in my opinion.
> 
> I am also going to take a scuba class just to learn what I am in store for if I decide to do Hookah diving. I may not go for certification, but want the knowledge.
> 
> Thanks all, both misinformed and informed for making this thread very interesting.
> 
> Dennis


Good for you on taking the Scuba class. It will lead you to another world. As far as the hookah goes...Since you will be a certified diver any way...just get a Scuba tank, a first and 2nd stage regulator with about 30 feet of hose. This way you can just leave the tank on deck or in your dinghy and use a safe, reliable source of air. Much easier then carting around another device....


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## Andrew65

Gentlemen,

Being a dive instructor of 20+ years, it scares me to think you DIYers can beat the odds and just build one. The extended hose from a tank to scrub a hull, ok. Check your time and stay within it. No brainer. Anything else is playing with borrowed time. if you are however inclinded to go that route, join DAN (for the safety sake) after taking a basic dive course. It is more eyeopening with a good instructor than you think. I emphasize good instructor because there are a lot of sheet heads out there too. If you dont want to take a course, then buy the divers encyclopedia for the content and read it. 

Like in riding a motorcycle, If you have a 10 dollar head, then buy a 10 dollar helmet. Dive gear and knowledge is the same. Go with proven items and enjoy yourself instead of wondering the whole time if you have ethnically rigged it all up right.

Andrew


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## Fstbttms

Andrew65 said:


> Being a dive instructor of 20+ years, it scares me to think you DIYers can beat the odds and just build one.


Being a SCUBA instructor clearly doesn't make one an expert on building hookah rigs. *Anybody reading this is 100% capable of putting together a safe, reliable hookah unit that is essentially identical to anything commercially available to recreational divers.* Hookahs are not high-tech pieces of equipment that require special knowledge to build. They are simple devices and even the most expensive of them are built of off-the-shelf components that are readily available to you and me.


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## Andrew65

Fstbttms said:


> Being a SCUBA instructor clearly doesn't make one an expert on building hookah rigs. *Anybody reading this is 100% capable of putting together a safe, reliable hookah unit that is essentially identical to anything commercially available to recreational divers.* Hookahs are not high-tech pieces of equipment that require special knowledge to build. They are simple devices and even the most expensive of them are built of off-the-shelf components that are readily available to you and me.


If I've come acrossed trying to sound an expert because I have my instructor card, it wasn't my intention. I like a good dumpster dive for discarded items I can use on my boat, but I just feel DIYing certain stuff isn't worth the risk.

Ok, you've got my attention. This thread has gone a lot of different ways (as usual on SN ) and reading your qualifications, would respectfully hear how you would build one.

How would you build one (parts and details please), thus summarizing this thread and pulling it together for the DIYer?

Andrew


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## Fstbttms

I don't have the time or inclination to give you a tutorial on hookahs. Do your own legwork. I suggest you try looking at the web sites of hookah sellers. You'll find that there is nothing special about them.


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## Andrew65

Fair enough. No worries.


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## denverd0n

Well, I'm not going to lay out a complete tutorial on how to build one, but in essence a hookah system is pretty simple. You're just pumping air down to a diver, rather than having him carry it on his back. You have a compressor on the surface feeding a hose that goes down to the diver.

The critical parts, safety-wise, are an oil-less compressor, hose that is specifically rated for breathing through, and intake air that is not contaminated (position the intake so that it is not sucking exhaust, filter it properly). The critical thing for the user to know is that you ARE breathing compressed air (despite what sandboy has said) and that for that reason you really MUST get proper training (usually by taking a SCUBA class).


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## Happy Hookah

I use asbestos lined hose to keep the air from my mattress inflator nice & cool while diving. One problem though is I need a 2000 kg weight belt to get the mattress submerged.


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## 2Gringos

I've been reading this thread with some amazement in places. Astonishing how ignorant some people can choose to be. What's that old line about none is so blind as he who will not see?

Building a decent hookah is not rocket surgery, it's not even as complicated as building a reverse osmosis watermaker from off the shelf parts. But to do it safely and competently, I think the builder needs to understand the issues involved. Not only the diving physiology, but the potential for poisoning by contaminants.

I started diving at the ripe age of 12, taught by a Navy UDT friend of my dad's. He had a 12 year old son, too, and we both learned together on some surplus Healthways two-hose regulators and galvanized steel 72 tanks. Neither of us ever missed an episode of Sea Hunt, either.

I dove in my career, often. Installing oceanographic equipment all over the world. I've had all kinds of equipment over the years, including Unisuits, KMB-9 masks, and underwater comms ( Helle). I've dove under thick ice. I was fortunate in that when I needed to dive on a job, I typically had the budget to just buy a Mako compressor to fill my own tanks. I've been bent once in the fifty three years I've been diving, from staying just on the "no dc" limits, but then stupidly hopping on a jet to fly back from Long Island NY to Boston for a hot date on a Friday night. I have no idea how many thousand dives I've done. We didn't keep log books. I'll tell you other divers how old my cert is, NASDS. Remember them? 

And for the past 11 years I've used a Brownie's Third Lung hookah. Taught a few people to dive, with three rules they need to understand. Do not hold your breath, do not pass your bubbles on the way up, and do not panic under any circumstances. You really don't need to know much more than that to dive on compressed air, for hull cleaning and even diving on reefs and shallow wrecks.

I don't understand why anyone would want to cob up their own hookah when you can find functional, proven ones used cheap. If you have the desire to play around with stuff like this, then build your own quadcopter. Build your own 3D printer ( I've done both) or build your own RO system.

But to take chances with a life support system is questionable. WHY do it?


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## Fstbttms

2Gringos said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to cob up their own hookah when you can find functional, proven ones used cheap.


As someone who earns his living with one, I have "cobbed up" many hookah systems. I have also owned commercially available hookahs, including Brownie's. And I can tell you that I can easily put together a perfectly safe unit of equal or better quality than anything you can buy commercially and I can do it for less money. So while you may be satisfied with the cheap, plastic, toy-like air hose fittings provided with your expensive Brownie's hookah, others may not be.


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## 2Gringos

Excuse me, junior, but I was earning a living under the ocean while you were still in diapers. The Brownies is functional, proven, and they've sold a hell of a lot more of them than you have. J. Sink is a former Brownies employee. I don't know where you got the chip on your shoulder, but in the diving, submersible, ROV world, the six feet you dive to cleaning boat hulls is a freaking rain puddle. Please don't tell me you're one of those guys who wear a wristwatch the size of a turkey platter just so everyone in the bar knows you're a diver.

Interesting you think a compressor, hose and second stage is some kind of black magic, and that you're the only one here who knows what he's talking about.


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## Fstbttms

2Gringos said:


> Excuse me, junior, but I was earning a living under the ocean while you were still in diapers. The Brownies is functional, proven, and they've sold a hell of a lot more of them than you have. J. Sink is a former Brownies employee. I don't know where you got the chip on your shoulder, but in the diving, submersible, ROV world, the six feet you dive to cleaning boat hulls is a freaking rain puddle. Please don't tell me you're one of those guys who wear a wristwatch the size of a turkey platter just so everyone in the bar knows you're a diver.
> 
> Interesting you think a compressor, hose and second stage is some kind of black magic, and that you're the only one here who knows what he's talking about.


Hit a nerve, did I? Funny how the guy who feels the need to make sure everybody else knows what an expert he is is the one accusing others of having a chip on their shoulder.









Look, I have nothing against commercially available hookah rigs. But your inference that a home-built unit is somehow going to be inferior or that to build one is a fool's errand is simply ludicrous.

And BTW? If I didn't have several tens of thousands of hours of hookah use under my belt, I might be offended by your misplaced attitude of smug superiority. But as it is, I find it to be fairly amusing.


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## jimmid

I have built and used a hookah from a BOYU acq-910 12v compressor and it works perfectly. It is easy to modify a 2nd stage regulator to work with it or buy a hookah regulator, or even use a snorkel with purge valve. For shallow water diving it is fine, and have had no problems cleaning hull and keel 2 mtrs + down.


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## mrjo

Kudos to 2Gringos,

I think the only time in the whole thread someone has stated how to avoid killing yourself rather than the standard go and do a dive course response. 

So 3 rules to live by, sounds pretty simple to me.

1) Don't hold your breath
2) Do not pass your bubbles on the way up
3) DO NOT PANIC under any circumstances!!

The only fail there Gringos was the don't build your own mindset. 

As for personal safety, we all jump in cars everyday, almost without a thought of the dangers, and they kill very effectively here in OZ 1600 a year appx plus 30000 serious injuries..

So I don't see a DIY Hookah setup being a big risk if you think it through and use the right kind of pump and hose. Then practice a bit just under the surface and move down in 2 foot stages and practice resurfacing a few times at each level to gain some confidence and establish a breathing routine. 

Now rather than bagging this post why not take the time to ad anything else that may save those who brave the wild west of home style hookah's and self reliance, Rule #4???

I will be building the cheapo version of oil less diaphragm pump with hose into snorkel with purge valve, if the constant bubbles annoy or if the pump dies due to 100% duty cycle then may upgrade to regulator, tank and pressure switch setup. 

Jo
.


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## denverd0n

jimmid said:


> It is easy to modify a 2nd stage regulator...


I have heard this, but I have never seen anyone post step-by-step instructions on how to do it. So how about some details? How exactly do you modify a 2nd stage for hookah use?


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## Fstbttms

denverd0n said:


> How exactly do you modify a 2nd stage for hookah use?


I have never known anybody to do this. Not sure why you would.



XS Scuba Hookah 2nd Stage RG3 with reviews at scuba.com


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## jimmid

There is a valve and a spring on the air inlet with a lever that operates the valve when you push on the purge button. When you breathe in the diaphragm pushes on the lever and opens the valve. Some people say you can replace the spring with a softer spring or cut the spring down but the easiest thing to do is remove the valve completely. It then becomes a free flow air delivery. I did this with this cheap Chinese octopus regulator. It is perfectly safe if you follow the three rules mentioned. It also pays to attach the hookah air line to a belt or harness with the regulator hose going over your shoulder so the hose doesn't pull on the regulator.


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## Fstbttms

Breathing on a free-flowing 2nd stage is no fun. For less than $100 you can buy a regulator designed to work in a hookah. But if saving a couple of bucks is that important to you...


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## denverd0n

Yeah, I don't think I want bubbles roiling up around my face constantly. I would rather just spend the money to buy a regulator made for this.


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## scubadoo

First time I've ever looked into hookah reg...is there any advantage to a higher / lower psi? Or is it just to match your air supply?


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## Fstbttms

scubadoo said:


> ....is it just to match your air supply?


Yes.


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## jimmid

As I said, you can change the spring in a 2nd stage to lower the psi, but the hookah I use is 160 LPM and about 17.5 psi. so I don't want to restrict the flow. When you breathe normally, without holding your breath, you breathe continuously. With the free flow regulator air is coming down the hose at 160 lpm. You breath in and the exhaust valve closes and you fill your lungs. Less than a second later you breathe out and your exhaled breath with the fresh air is exhaled. then you start the process again. Most of the bubbles occur when you exhale, unless you hold your breath, which you shouldn't. I don't feel that restricting the air flow and putting a strain on the little compressor to stop the bubbles for less than a second is worth the extra cost. If you don't like the bubbles, on my regulator the exhaust valve exits in to a box shape that sits under the regulator in front of your chin with openings at each end, so it would be easy to silicon in two 3 inch tubes to divert the exhaust to the side of your face.


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## snokid

I'm almost afraid to post here...lol

I'm cert. and have 2 hookah systems, one store bought expensive one, and 1 diy unit.

I metal detect and stay down for quite a while. would have to check my logs but I know it's over 500 hours on hookah alone.

I won't post the ebay link but look for the 12v oil-less compressor with 2 tanks the blue one, about 200 bucks has a built in regulator. it builds pressure then shuts off. some say that saves battery...
get breathing air hose, I have a couple hundred feet of it I use.
get a few second stages, and a little plumbing hardware to mate the hose to the regulator. think pressure washer...
I have used sla's and deep cycle batteries it depends on how far I have to haul this crap to get to where I'm going to dive.

To tell you the truth sometimes it's easier to just dive on the bottle.... But time limited....

I know there's a hot spot I dive at quite regular I load up everything so I can stay down most of the day... under 5' of water.... I take a break every 2 or 3 hours.... but I might be down for 8-10 that day. 

So it can be done safely... But if you have no idea of how this stuff works spend the coin for a proven system. I know it's been said before but get cert. A few hundred dollars is pretty cheap insurance.

Bob


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## DZXMZX

Ok. I am new to this community chat thing. This is what I am getting out of this discussion. Nobody (with an exception or two) has personal knowledge about the topic. The topic seems to be can a hookah dive system be engineered from a commercially available compressor? Yes you know the dangers of a scuba novice jumping in the water with compressed air from any source is a potential path to a very dangerous situation. Great your money for a dive class was well spent. Now who can get back to basics. A decent hookah gig all color coordinated, cute little diver down stickers and a punchy logo that has the word "diver" in it is going to cost $800 on the cheap end. Okay let's start with the proper regulator and hose. WHAT does a "experienced" diver need from there to make a better rig for much less money ($200-500 without the paint job and stickers)??? 

Who here wouldn't really like to know?


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## denverd0n

DZXMZX said:


> Nobody (with an exception or two) has personal knowledge about the topic.


There are several exceptions, with personal experience, and they have posted quite useful information. They are typically then told that they are crazy, by people who do NOT have personal experience. Up to you to decide who to believe.



DZXMZX said:


> WHAT does a "experienced" diver need from there to make a better rig for much less money ($200-500 without the paint job and stickers)??? Who here wouldn't really like to know?


I think a number here already know.

You need an oil-free compressor that can deliver adequate air-flow. What "adequate" means, and whether it is run by 12 volts, 110 volts, or a gas engine depends on your specific requirements. You need air hose that is rated specifically for breathing. You need a regulator second stage. Depending on your compressor it may, or may not, have to be able to work with less air pressure than a "normal" second stage. You probably should have a filter on your air hose; this may not be absolutely REQUIRED, but there is no doubt that it is a good idea and well worth the money.

That's it. Not really all that complicated. If you buy cheap stuff you can probably do it for less than $500. That cheap stuff may not last very long in a marine environment. If you want quality gear that will last then you may have to go over $500. Still, either way, it is not all that complicated. Just some people like to make it SEEM much more complicated.


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## loxsplopp

HI guys I am another aussie that used the Boyu acq910 uses a 12v deep cycle battery- runs for ages
For info on setups google" Keene Intro to Hooka"
You need an oil free compressor
The Boyu is high flow low pressure I use 2 compressorsb (160 l/min each- at the surface)
My air reservoir is a failed scuba tank- yes I know but I am assuming it is unlikely to fail at 18psi- and if it does it will leak not explode at 18 psi remember it was designed- and could probably still take 2000 psi
Use a 5 micron filter
Certified air breathing hose- you can get it on Ebay
I think there are 2 sizes- I use the larger size as i figure it will decrease the resistance 
ALSO NEED A CHECK VALVE!!!!!
cheapo Chinese reg and adjusted the intake - basically it is free flowing - can live with that
Don't use a BCD
One diver to 25- 30 feet, 2 divers 10-15 feet
We also have a commercial Hookah max petrol unit
Have dive ticket- and yes all the precaution as if it were scuba- IT IS compressed air
On the DIY really only shallow 10 -15 feet for two of us. Bottom times not a prob - the battery starts to slow and up you go BUT go up slow!!! 
With the deeper dives we carry each a bail out with an occy, like a catalina s19 and BCD 
Make sure your quick release couplings cannot undo, make sure your air at intake point not contaminated with petrol( gas) fumes or exhaust fumes etc
Graham


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## Brent Neuberger

Fstbttms: 2013 was so long ago that I was going to send you a PM but seeing as how there is a 15 post requirement to participate I was bound to comment on this old post...

I'm building a hookah and was curious if you'd be up for a discussion, could you PM me since I'm un-allowed
Thanks


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## SeaStar58

The output breathing line filter is critical on the oil-less compressors since dust from the teflon piston rings wearing will get into the air stream but be aware that the cheaper ones will also get hot and off-gas the teflon, etc in the piston rings which a particulate filter will not be able to trap. Clean "breathing rated hose" is critical too and should not have ever been used on an unfiltered compressor of any kind nor should it have been left opened ended so dust and other contaminants could have gotten into it.

I speak from the viewpoint of the tool crib manager and head of maintenance of several woodworking and upholstery factories who has had to deal with the issues related to oil-less compressors and oil-free air tools that used non-metallic piston rings to run oil-less. 

The dust from the non-metallic piston rings wearing would leave black stains on the fabrics and the exhaust would also include metallic dust from the cylinder in the compressor too which would also contribute to accelerating wear on any tools used on those air lines. Putting spray painting filters on the tool end of the hoses would only prevent the particles from going through but not the fumes as the piston rings off-gassed or smoke as they got hot.

Do your research on how to deliver clean, safe air that poses no immediate or long term health risks to the diver. Any carcinogen introduced into the divers air stream will not be expelled as rapidly from the lungs as during normal breathing so there is a potential for greater risk when an consumer grade air-less compressor is used to supply breathing air. Even some pollen's that get past your air filter can pose a greater risk of an allergy or asthma attack which Duke University has sited as the cause of some diving incidents such as the one reported in the September 2002 issue of the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology regarding a diver in Naples Italy changing air tank suppliers to one who did not have adequate filtration on their system which resulted in pollen from local plants surrounding the dive shop being broken up into smaller particles and introduced into all the tanks they filled. The attack triggered by the pollen created a life threatening situation.

The DIYer will need to vet this all out to ensure their system passes the same rigors that the commercial systems do before being put into use and unlike that Dive Shop in Naples be sure to maintain the system and the filters so as to not present a risk.

We are looking into the same at the Sailing Center for maintaining some of our larger vessels that are less convenient to pull from the water for hull maintenance. We need it to be idiot proof enough for use around volunteers and such who may not have a good track record for following instructions and have a habit of modifying equipment without asking first because of some personal reason that they feel is more critical than observing Best Practice or Established Safety Guidelines.


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## Fstbttms

Brent Neuberger said:


> I'm building a hookah and was curious if you'd be up for a discussion, could you PM me since I'm un-allowed
> Thanks


I am happy to answer any questions you might have but let's have the discussion here.


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## MastUndSchotbruch

Fstbttms said:


> I am happy to answer any questions you might have but let's have the discussion here.


Yes please, I want to learn, too.


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## Bleemus

Bringing an old thread back from the dead.

I have a few thousand dives on traditional Scuba and just a few on hookah. PADI Certified Advanced.

Here is what I am considering for my DIY rig to be used in marinas.

Thomson 1207PK80 compressor. Overkill?

Jsink Airline hose. 75 feet. Longer?

XS Scuba Hookah Second Stage Regulator. 110-140psi model??? The compressor is rated 125psi. Should I get the 80-110psi instead? This is my biggest question. Anyone who has used this compressor please chime in!!!

What am I missing or forgetting?


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## Fstbttms

Bleemus said:


> Bringing an old thread back from the dead.
> 
> I have a few thousand dives on traditional Scuba and just a few on hookah. PADI Certified Advanced.
> 
> Here is what I am considering for my DIY rig to be used in marinas.
> 
> Thomson 1207PK80 compressor. Overkill?
> 
> Jsink Airline hose. 75 feet. Longer?
> 
> XS Scuba Hookah Second Stage Regulator. 110-140psi model??? The compressor is rated 125psi. Should I get the 80-110psi instead? This is my biggest question. Anyone who has used this compressor please chime in!!!
> 
> What am I missing or forgetting?


Assuming your Air Line air hose includes an inline filter, I think you've covered it pretty well. Use the 80-110 psi 2nd stage.


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## rcontrera

Filtration, filtration, filtration.


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## RigBig

I am in the process of getting all the ideas of what a safe reliable DIY hookah system would look like. At the same time I just signed up for scuba certification. Just passed the online certification and waiting for the weather to warm up a bit and this virus pandemic to abate and then finish my practical certification in water.


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## RigBig

The Thomas 2685PE40 has almost the same specs and less than half the cost. Applications include Air Vending>Mobile Dental Stations>Pond Aeration>Telephone Cable Drying>Wave Guide Pressurization>Wind Turbine Gear Box Cooling


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## logannydegger1

loxsplopp said:


> HI guys I am another aussie that used the Boyu acq910 uses a 12v deep cycle battery- runs for ages For info on setups google" Keene Intro to Hooka" You need an oil free compressor The Boyu is high flow low pressure I use 2 compressorsb (160 l/min each- at the surface) My air reservoir is a failed scuba tank- yes I know but I am assuming it is unlikely to fail at 18psi- and if it does it will leak not explode at 18 psi remember it was designed- and could probably still take 2000 psi Use a 5 micron filter Certified air breathing hose- you can get it on Ebay I think there are 2 sizes- I use the larger size as i figure it will decrease the resistance ALSO NEED A CHECK VALVE!!!!! cheapo Chinese reg and adjusted the intake - basically it is free flowing - can live with that Don't use a BCD One diver to 25- 30 feet, 2 divers 10-15 feet We also have a commercial Hookah max petrol unit Have dive ticket- and yes all the precaution as if it were scuba- IT IS compressed air On the DIY really only shallow 10 -15 feet for two of us. Bottom times not a prob - the battery starts to slow and up you go BUT go up slow!!! With the deeper dives we carry each a bail out with an occy, like a catalina s19 and BCD Make sure your quick release couplings cannot undo, make sure your air at intake point not contaminated with petrol( gas) fumes or exhaust fumes etc Graham


 Good write up can you email I am planning to use same setup and have few questions, thanks


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## MarkofSeaLife

logannydegger1 said:


> Good write up can you email I am planning to use same setup and have few questions, thanks


Feel free to ask in the forum. 
That's why we're here 😊😊😊😊

Welcome to SailNet 


Mark


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## logannydegger1

logannydegger1 said:


> Good write up can you email I am planning to use same setup and have few questions, thanks


Thanks for the reply, I plan to use same setup but with a 2L bottle as air reservoir. Could you link the hose and fittings etc you used or could you list what sizes the hose/fittings are, thanks! Also if I wanted to save money couldent I also use aquarium tubing since it would be safe to breathe and this is a low pressure unit.


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## Diver_John

denverd0n said:


> My concern would be the 17.4 psi limitation. Standard air pressure is 14.7 psi. At a depth of 10 feet, the water pressure is 1.3 atmospheres, or about 19.1 psi. So this compressor cannot even pump air down 10 feet underwater, let alone get enough volume down to a diver that deep.
> 
> And then, is the flow rating at the full 17.4 or is that "free flow." A lot of compressors, in order to "pump up" their numbers, will list free flow volume and maximum psi, and not mention that at maximum psi the flow is going to be WAAAAY less.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Oops! Just realized that my math is wrong. I was including the 1 atmosphere of pressure that we start with at sea level. So, if this thing can pump 17.4 psi then it can pump air down almost 40 feet. The question remains, though, if it will actually deliver the full flow at that depth.
> 
> And then, most of the regulators that I've seen that are made for hookah diving are adjusted to work with 40-60 psi of delivered air pressure. "Normal" scuba regulators work with around 100 psi of delivered air pressure. Obviously, these regulators would not work with that compressor, which may be why the ebay sellers plumb it to a snorkel, instead of a real regulator.


haha.. sucking a snorkel is easy. and cheap. Yay


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## Diver_John

logannydegger1 said:


> Thanks for the reply, I plan to use same setup but with a 2L bottle as air reservoir. Could you link the hose and fittings etc you used or could you list what sizes the hose/fittings are, thanks! Also if I wanted to save money couldent I also use aquarium tubing since it would be safe to breathe and this is a low pressure unit.


As my buddy and I, only plan to dive 10-15' anyway, with a 14.5 psi 120L/min surface compressor each, I still decided to buy the proper breathing air hose. As for the regulator, after reading some comments, I need to find a very low pressure actuated one. Perhaps one with an adjustment. Does anyone know of such a type? The hookah systems coming from China, are also low pressure/volume, I'm sure they will work fine. I build a prototype hookah, try it, then build another, with mods, if required. Thanks for the input.


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## Mikey11

Which kind or make of filter are you guys using in your hookah systems?


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