# Backing a sailboat into a slip



## simpsoned (Jun 6, 2006)

This may sound stupid for a sailor of many years, but now that I have gotten over the one foot-itis and have a Newport 30, I find myself in a slip where I have to back into it...HELP...going forward is not an issue, but I nearly killed my wife trying to back in to the slip last weekend...what is the secret? (and "don't do it " has already been offered by several sailing "friends", or at least they were last week)...
thanks
Ed Simpson
s/v Das Dawg Haus


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## MikeWhy (Apr 22, 2011)

simpsoned said:


> I nearly killed my wife trying to back in to the slip last weekend...what is the secret?


Practice.


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## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

If your boat is like mine, it crawls to port when you accelerate in reverse. I usually line up perpendicular to the slip, maybe a boat-length away and hit reverse. The rear end will go left as if on a pendulum. The more power in reverse you apply, the more to the left it will go. If you reduce the power, then eventually it will go backwards more straightly (I know, not a word) letting the rudder engage. Now this formula is all dependent on the direction and force of the wind. When you line up perpendicular and the wind is blowing hard to starboard, then you have to be aggressive about setting the boat motion into the wind and powering hard to get to face it. Anyway, it's fun to work on it and successfully accomplish it. Rope guides from the inside to the outside posts help a lot. Good Luck.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Not really sure what you are asking for. What is the slip like? Why do you have to back in? How does the boat handle in reverse?

My boat has prop walk to port and handles decently in reverse. Key in my case is to get her moving enough to get rudder to grab, shift into neutral, and glide in. 
I prefer to stand forward of the wheel, or tiller, looking to the stern. Get the boat moving in reverse enough for rudder to grab, shift into neutral to get rid of prop wash, and steer into slip. Use the prop walk to your advantage (either direction) to pull toward dock. Standing forward of the wheel makes it much more comfortable for me as it just seems comfortable.

Good luck! Hope your wife survives...or you in case you continue to screw up.


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## rayncyn51 (Aug 8, 2008)

Does the term "Prop Walk" ring a bell? If not Google it and read up on it. Your Newport 30 is very similar to my Catalina 30. What I did was find an empty basin and drive the boat around backwards for a while. Start, turn, stop, repeat... about a zillion times until I got the hang of how much power it takes to get the boat moving, and how much correction it takes to neutraize the prop walk.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Don't know your slip arrangement, but a spring line might help, once you get close enough to the dock. I use one that is attached to the dock and laid out so I can pick it up with a boat hook and secure it to a midship cleat. Backing in at that point is child's play. The trip is to pick it up in the first place, which may take some practice.


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## bacampbe (Mar 17, 2009)

I find backing into my slip easier than going in forward. My boat does back pretty well, so that helps. OTOH, I almost always have a cross wind. 

The secret is to approach in reverse, rather than trying to switch into reverse right in front of the slip. With the usual prevailing winds, I head towards my slip in forward, then do a U turn when I reach it, and don't switch to reverse until I am a boat length or two away, and on the other side of the alley. (I have an unusually wide alley.) This gives me plenty of room to get water over the rudder to overcome the prop walk. I step around to the other side of the wheel, drop the throttle back to idle, and drive her in like a car. The cool part is, when you're moving in reverse, you can stop on a dime with a bit of forward thrust.

If your approach alley is too narrow, try entering the alley in reverse and backing in all the way. You might get some funny looks, but it works for my boat. It also helps to have fenders permanently set up in the slip.


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## celenoglu (Dec 13, 2008)

Either reverse a lot prior to entering the slip. The boat will be moving and the rudder will be affective. The other method is to use bursts of forward to control the positon of the boat. When in forward the water from the prop passes over the rudder which makes it respond.Take the control to forward with some revs, position the rudder according to the direction you want to hold the boat. After the boats direction is OK, just rev, but consider your prop walk. You have to turn the boat less than the positon you want to hold if your prop walk adds to your direction, or more if it moves to other direction.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

heck, you guys are making this real complicated. With 2 hulls, I keep the helm amidships and steer with both throttles.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Gee tropicat, I always thought cats could just park over top a finger slip and the crew just jumps off without even tying a line!  


I agree with others.. get the boat moving in reverse before trying to back it in. then use the momentum and be ready to "gun" it in forward to stop her just inches from the dock, while the current if there is any.. gently moves her against the finger pier. I've only done this a few times at a local marina that has an outdoor cafe the overlooks the docks.. ALL the patrons WATCH... one must stay cool!


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

When we used to back in, we found springlines to be our best friends (as mentioned above). If you have pilings at the entrance end of your slip, rig two long lines on the pilings. When you return, pull up the pilings and grab the lines. Then, as you back in, you can pull on the line on whichever side you want the boat to turn. Of course, do this very slowly so you don't pull the lines out of your hands. You could also give them a half turn on a cleat. I was able to hold the lines in my hands at the helm, center the wheel, and back in perfectly with just a little tension on whichever line was necessary to keep the boat straight. Just kept the rudder centered and throttle at idle in reverse. Just as you are about completely in the slip, cleat both lines and keep the engine in gear while you attach the rest of your docklines. That will keep the boat right where you want it while you hook everything up. It took a few attempts to get everything in sync, but once we had a patten down it i was easy as pie no matter how windy.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

When backing and turning into our slip, wind and inertia are problems. There is no current which if present would be another problem.

When backing and turning, the boat continues to turn after straightening the the rudder, so I straighten the rudder a bit early, perhaps 10 - 15 degrees.

The wind typically blows toward the stern, and if very strong it is necessary to come into the slip faster to overcome the effect of the wind. The wind blowing toward the bow tends to turn the bow, is more difficult to handle, and I might decide to enter the slip bow first.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Rules when there is a crowd:

1. Act like you know what you are doing, even if you don't.
2. Plan ahead, issue no verbal commands to the crew. No words spoken, hand signals if necessary. Definitely no shouting.
3. Everyone walks, casual-like, no running, or big leaps.
4. If it goes bad, act like you planned it that way.
5. Beware of dock helpers unless you know them. They will do crazy things like try and pull you in with their backs, not cleat off, etc.

It's not how you dock, its how you look


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## richardbur10 (May 12, 2008)

Docking is a spectator sport. As long as you don't break something you will get the hang of it after awhile and you will wonder what was so hard in the first place. Unless there is a real need to back in I like to be in forward as there is much for privacy and I think more security. At my marina we have short permanent nonfloating docks and pilings. It would be an easier entry and exit to be backed in but I still prefer to be in bow first even though I have to board up by the bow.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

You may have a boat that does not steer in reverse. I know I have had two! To be fair the Ryton did steer when at 3 knots or better but the Bombay - fuggedaboutit.

Solution sell current boat and buy a Bendytoy. You can slalom those backwards.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Don't find the wind and/or currents. My boat spins downwind in the slightest breeze, so if my slip is downwind, it's a lot harder to back in (if it's upwind, it's a lot harder to back out).


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

I've had two Newports and both of them don't like going in reverse. you need to get them moving straight in reverse first and then shift to natural and let you momentum guide you in. once you start to turn then if needed more power then you can kick it in R and back to N. Someone else commented about practice in an empty basin it really does help.
Fair winds
Peter


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## b40Ibis (Apr 27, 2011)

The B40 does not back strait either with her full keel. The rudder is useless in reverse. I usually go in bow to. But if there is no wind/current I get perpendicular to the slip and spin her in stern to clockwise using the prop walk. There is no shame in using lines and pulling her in. 

Once I am in, I thank the dock hands and say to everyone else watching- 'Nothing to see here, carry on'


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

When backing into a slip, you have two ways to do it - the fast way, or the slow way. 

If you go slow, the rudder won't be able to steer the boat. The prop walk will cause the boat to turn as it backs in. The key to success is to line up the boat correctly before you start to back in. If the boat is positioned correctly, it will back up while turning into the slip.

The fast way is to put the transmission in reverse, and accelerate to a sufficient speed that the boat will have steerageway. That means the rudder will be able to steer the boat. When you have steerageway, put the shifter in neutral, and steer the boat into the slip. 

The best advice I can give is, don't think about the problem as you would if you were backing your car into your garage. When you back your car into your garage, you use the motor to get it all the way into your garage. You wouldn't back it to the entrance of the garage and then get out and push it in the rest of the way. But, when putting a boat in a slip, especially singlehanded, don't feel that you have to use the engine to get it all the way into the slip. If you can get the stern past the first two pilings, you can use a boat hook to pull the boat the rest of the way into the slip. I singlehand my 35' boat frequently, and always have the boat hook ready when backing into the slip, because, like most, I don't always get it lined up perfectly, and the boat hook makes virtually every docking a success.

With practice, your skill will improve, but to start, you need to just be able to push, pull or tug the boat into the slip without doing any damage. By doing so, your self-confidence will increase, and that will make it easier for you to learn and improve your skills.


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## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

Prop walk-Port or Starboard ? Find out if you have a right hand or left hand prop and you may then know which way your boat has a tendency to turn while backing up--Prop Walk-- (after reading on internet). "Usually a right-hand propeller will cause a boat to walk to port in reverse"(jimh). **You probably have an INBOARD with a left hand propeller with a Starboard prop walk direction of turning in reverse. You can use this to help steer !
--Get a Minn Kota electric motor and use as a stern thruster*(really), if your situation is not too extreme as far as wind and current.


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

*Docking is an art*

Since we don't know the full situation that's giving you the most problems, here is some quick advice:

1) You can't fight the wind or current and win. So, use them to your advantage!
2) The more you practice, the better you'll be.
3) Every boat handles differently, especially in reverse.
4) Unless you have water flowing over the rudder, the boat is going to "prop-walk" when throttle is applied...how much depends on the particular boat.
5) Travel within any marina should be done at the speed at which you plan on impacting things.
6) The rudder is what steers the boat...and it's located in the stern (this is opposite from your car). 
7) Communicate the docking plan with your crew well before you approach the dock.
8) Yelling only makes things more entertaining for the rest of us.
9) Always look like you know what you're doing.

Advice for your Crew/Dockhand(s):

1) Communicate the docking plan with the Helmsman before the boat approaches the dock (and before bystanders are able to hear).
2) Preplace dock lines and fenders. Some Captains/Skippers, only need a couple fenders...some should line their entire boat with them. 
3) Never run, walking quickly is OK.
4) Step from the boat onto the dock instead of jumping if at all possible.
5) Never get any part of your body between the boat and anything it's going to hit. A fiberglass repair job is cheaper than X-rays.
6) Do NOT try to pull on dock lines to stop or slow the boat. Instead, get the line wrapped around a cleat as quickly as possible. Learn how to "sweat" dock lines and attach them properly to the cleats.
7) Yelling at the Helmsman/Captain/Skipper will only add to the entertainment value for any bystanders.
8) Always look like you know what you're doing.

Practice, practice, and then practice some more.

For a docking simulator, go to the Presidio Yacht Club website.

Hope this helps,

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

PS When you're really, really, really good, you'll be able to dock without crew...EVEN when you're on crutches! (Yep, I've done it.)


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

a good way to practice is to go do figure 8's in reverse out in open water where there is nothing to bump into. Do it in different orientations to the wind and you will have a good idea of how tightly your boat will turn in each direction and how much the wind tends to blow the bow off.


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

*Docking is an art*

Since we don't know the full situation that's giving you the most problems, here is some quick advice:

1) You can't fight the wind or current and win. So, use them to your advantage!
2) The more you practice, the better you'll be.
3) Every boat handles differently, especially in reverse.
4) Unless you have water flowing over the rudder, the boat is going to "prop-walk" when throttle is applied...how much depends on the particular boat.
5) Travel within any marina should be done at the speed at which you plan on impacting things.
6) The rudder is what steers the boat...and it's located in the stern (this is opposite from your car). 
7) Communicate the docking plan with your crew well before you approach the dock.
8) Yelling only makes things more entertaining for the rest of us.
9) Always look like you know what you're doing.

Advice for your Crew/Dockhand(s):

1) Communicate the docking plan with the Helmsman before the boat approaches the dock (and before bystanders are able to hear).
2) Preplace dock lines and fenders. Some Captains/Skippers, only need a couple fenders...some should line their entire boat with them. 
3) Never run, walking quickly is OK.
4) Step from the boat onto the dock instead of jumping if at all possible.
5) Never get any part of your body between the boat and anything it's going to hit. A fiberglass repair job is cheaper than X-rays.
6) Do NOT try to pull on dock lines to stop or slow the boat. Instead, get the line wrapped around a cleat as quickly as possible. Learn how to "sweat" dock lines and attach them properly to the cleats.
7) Yelling at the Helmsman/Captain/Skipper will only add to the entertainment value for any bystanders.
8) Always look like you know what you're doing.

Practice, practice, and then practice some more.

For a docking simulator, go to the Presidio Yacht Club website.

Hope this helps,

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

PS When you're really, really, really good, you'll be able to dock without crew...EVEN when you're on crutches! (Yep, I've done it.)


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

+1 on practice. I prefer the slow and steady method. My last marina was VERY tight and I had to back in. Could approach from only one direction, not a full boat length the other direction between my dock and the fuel dock. What worked in that situation was 
:
1-approach the end pilings to port and perpendicular to my dock barely fast enough to steer.
2- when piling was about mid-boat or a little forward turn starboard about 45 degrees.
3- bump transmission into reverse and use prop walk to bring the aft in line with my end pilings.
4- reverse and forward to keep boat in line until I could grab the up-wind mid cleated line onto a piling.

Did this every time I went out and back mostly by myself. Only had to pull out and try again a couple of times in very stiff cross wind. The key for me was moving SLOW and getting the upwind mid cleat line around a piling, from that point the boat wasn't going anywhere.

Good luck, lots of good advice already in this thread.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Questions:
Is there any way to start from 0 knots and then back your boat out of a slip without any lines attached? I single hand and find it impossible to untie the boat, jump on and back out. The prop walk makes her want to do a 360 in the slip. Have tried sputs of reverse power but nothing seems to work. I normally have a 15 knot wind trying to blow me back into the slip which does not help.

I have found the only thing I can do is pull the boat out as far as possible, then jump on and reverse out. By this time I am clear of obstacles and the prop walk is no a problem. Boat is an S&S 34.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

My spring line (the one from the stern area) to my midship cleat is my first line to grab and last to loose when docking or backing out.

When comming in it will prvent me from hitting the dock ( I go bow first.) and will do the same when backing out. When backing out myself uncleat it from the mid ship cleat, I can hold it and control it with my hands until I am at the wheel, I can then give the endine some gas in reversae and slowly throw it on the finger opier, dock, or holder when backing out so its in position when i come in to grab 

Dave


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The best place to practice backing up is in a mooring field with open mooring balls. You have enough room to maneuver, but still have visual references for speed and prop walk. A channel marker works as second best. Find a slow time when there is little traffic.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

casey1999 said:


> Questions:
> Is there any way to start from 0 knots and then back your boat out of a slip without any lines attached? I single hand and find it impossible to untie the boat, jump on and back out. The prop walk makes her want to do a 360 in the slip. Have tried sputs of reverse power but nothing seems to work. I normally have a 15 knot wind trying to blow me back into the slip which does not help.


This can be difficult. I've had success by angling the boat counter to the prop walk before engaging engine. 
Two examples:

My last boat was a Catalina 36 with pronounce prop walk in reverse that would kick the stern to port. I was tied to the dock on the port side. I would release the lines such that my bow would be angled in towards the dock and my stern away from it. I had another sailboat to starboard but I could get a good 10 degree angle. Then I would engage the engine. By the time I would get some movement, the stern would have been kicked parallel. I could then shift into neutral and use the rudder to steer.

My current boat is larger, Catalina 400. I'm tied on the starboard side with very little room between me and the power boat to port. The alley behind my slip is maybe a couple feet wider than my boat length. I do the same thing here, but it is harder. The prop walk wants to pull my stern to port, yet to back out and then steer out of the marina I need to back out to starboard. Again, I'll angle the boat, bringing the stern into the dock as far as possible, engage the engine until I have motion, then use the rudder. Sometimes it just doesn't work (like today) and I ended up having to back all the way out of the marina.

Dave


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

casey1999 said:


> Questions:
> Is there any way to start from 0 knots and then back your boat out of a slip without any lines attached? I single hand and find it impossible to untie the boat, jump on and back out. The prop walk makes her want to do a 360 in the slip. Have tried sputs of reverse power but nothing seems to work. I normally have a 15 knot wind trying to blow me back into the slip which does not help.
> 
> I have found the only thing I can do is pull the boat out as far as possible, then jump on and reverse out. By this time I am clear of obstacles and the prop walk is no a problem. Boat is an S&S 34.


The best solution is to back into your slip, and then to pull out, bow-first, under power, especially with the strong wind blowing into your slip. Sailboats don't usually have much power or control when backing. They do their best when under power in forward gear.

Although you don't mention it, when the wind is blowing 15 into your slip, and you're entering your slip bow-first, you must have some difficulty stopping the boat and getting the lines tied. By backing into the slip, you'll find it easier to get in, as well as easier to get out. Moreover, it will be easier to board the boat at the stern than at the bow, because the bow is usually much higher than the stern, which makes it a longer step down to a finger pier.


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## heyross (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with "fallard". The best way to come into a slip is to use the spring that that prevents you going any further in the direction you are going (whether it be forward or reverse). 

If you set up an example - say port tie up, stern in. Before getting anywhere near the slip (berth?) all the port fenders should be ready to deploy as well as bow warp, bow springer, stern warp and stern springer. If I was reversing in and there was someone on the slip to assist, I would come in slow have a crew member throw the stern springer and ask the help to tie up on the forward cleat on the dock. If no one is there, a nimble crewman can do the the job. Regardless of what you do with the throttle or gears, the stern of the boat cannot possibly hit the end of the slip.

I have a 36' yacht and do a fair bit of single-handed sailing. I leave the stern springer tied off onto the forward slip cleat. With some scrap pieces of 50mm PVC we made up a hanger in which the loosely coiled stern springer sits. It is about 4' up from the slip to a 90 degree elbow. It then extends out about 3' into the slip. It is finished off with a "U" shaped piece of PVC in which the loosely coiled stern springer is located, already tied off to the slip. When coming into the slip I do not have to move from the tiller or throttle to pick up the springer. The stern springer cleat is also located near the tiller. Once the stern springer is in hand I quickly pass it under the life lines and rap it around the cleat. 

I also know that if I cannot easily reach the springer from the helm position, then I am not correctly lined up. I put the vessel into forward and then come back and give it another go.

Once attached to the slip your next move is totally dependent on prevailing winds and currents.

Hope this helps
Ross


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

make sure you have a spring line long enough to go to the cleat or piling and back to the boat. That way when you leave you can loop it once around the piling and have the end on the boat so when you let it go you can just pull it in without having to jump back and forth from the dock to the boat


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

casey1999 said:


> Questions:
> Is there any way to start from 0 knots and then back your boat out of a slip without any lines attached? I single hand and find it impossible to untie the boat, jump on and back out. The prop walk makes her want to do a 360 in the slip. Have tried sputs of reverse power but nothing seems to work. I normally have a 15 knot wind trying to blow me back into the slip which does not help.
> 
> I have found the only thing I can do is pull the boat out as far as possible, then jump on and reverse out. By this time I am clear of obstacles and the prop walk is no a problem. Boat is an S&S 34.


Another set of ideas ( from a single hander) :

On my boat, I have adopted the concept that dock lines are different from docking lines. Dock lines are those more or less permanent lines that hold the boat when I am away. They are positioned to hold the boat securely when I am away. Docking (assist) lines are temporary lines that are placed to help me dock or depart the dock. The difference lies in the fact that a correctly positioned dock line might be improperly placed to aid in docking or departing.

With these temporary lines, depending on where the wind is coming from, I can usually place them so that, in some position, two lines hold the boat. With these in place, I can take as much time as I want to untie and place the more or less permanent dock lines, board the boat, etc. Generally, one of these lines will be somewhere amidships and one at the stern, but they could be anywhere needed. I rig these temporary lines so that I can release them from the helm. There are a number of ways of doing this. One that is mentioned often is to use a long line, secured at the helm area, led to/around a piling or cleat, back to the helm, where you can take in or let out the line as needed. When ready to cast off, release one end of the line and quickly pull in the other to get the line out of the water so it doesn't tangle the prop. If you are single handing, you will be busy if you have to make a turn as you depart the slip, so there is a good possibility that the line will be in the water longer than you want. Towards this end, I have purchased a braided polypropylene line on special order from West Marine call Samson MFP. This line floats...it is different from the cheap yellow polypropylene lines at the hardware store, which are stiff, kink, and don't handle well. The MFP line has a hand similar to double braided nylon. These lines float, so the chance of getting a line wrapped on the prop is greatly diminished...but you still want to get them in quickly. If you go this route, don't skimp on length. 2 1/2 times the boat length should be long enough.

On backing out, place one of these lines from the helm area cleat, forward to a piling (probably, your stern piling), around piling or cleat, and back to the helm area on the side away from the propwalk. Now, feed, slack or tighten this line as needed to offset the prop walk to the opposite side. It doesn't take much force generally. Once clear of the dock, release one end and take in the line. Again, there are several ways to make the line end easy to release. The one I use is like a shoe string tie around one side of the stern cleat. I just reach down, pull the bitter end like the shoe string end, and the line is instantly released. Just make sure that there is nothing that the line is going to hang on as you retrieve it...it will try to find something. Complete your turn and you are on your way.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> My spring line (the one from the stern area) to my midship cleat is my first line to grab and last to loose when docking or backing out.
> 
> When comming in it will prvent me from hitting the dock ( I go bow first.) and will do the same when backing out.
> 
> Dave


Thanks all for all the advice. This confirms there is no way to just jump on the boat and motor out without some kind of line control. I will do some experimentation to find what works best.
Aloha


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## jaschrumpf (Jun 22, 2002)

You don't say how much room you have around your slip. I single hand most of the time on my Newport 28, and regularly back into my slip. There's about two or three boat lengths between my slip and the one across from me, so I have plenty of room. 

When docking, I go into neutral a bit before coming abreast of my slip and about halfway between my slip and the ones across from me, and try to time it so that I'm just about stopped when I pass my slip. Then I put her into reverse and watch what happens. Depending on the wind, she might immediately back to starboard and right into the slip. Most times, she starts prop walking to port, and if she goes far enough, I just keep backing around in a circle to port until I come back around and back straight into my slip. Kinda like a "chicken gybe," I "chicken reverse" till I'm pointed in the right direction.

I've also seen other sailboats go into reverse outside our slip "alley" and back all the way down the lane and into their slip.

I figure the point of the exercise is to get the boat into the slip as quickly and easily as possible, and I will not stand unnecessarily on my dignity to do so.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Backing into my slip would be much more difficult than backing out. Therefore bow in is perferred. Also have a windvan on stern, so banging that would do a lot more damage than potentially banging the bow. Also, due to wind vane, hard to fend the stern if that is what is needed coming in. There is a lot of space in the fairway, the problem is the yacht docked next to me in our double slip (no dock or pilings between me and the boat next to me on my starboard side). I am on a floating dock with good rubber on all edges, so even if I tap the dock without a fender, not much of a problem. Coming into the dock is not too bad, just aim the bow into the dock at about 45 deg and hit revese then the prop walk helps me by pushing the stern against the dock with the boat stopped, then jump off and tie her down. 

Basically what I have herd here is there is really no way to just untie the boat and jump on, hit reverse and back out. The prop walk must be delt with in some way (primarily using lines to control the boat). I have found letting all dock lines free except for a line attached mid ship, then walking the boat out with this line works well. My boat weighs about 16,000 lbs and I am about at my limit to do this. Any larger boat or a strong wind it probably would not be practical and I would need some control lines to handle.


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## IrishFlame (Jun 8, 2005)

For several years I backed a 45' into a 32' long slip with a floating dock. I agree with everyone, get the boat moving so the rudder provides steerage. But the spring line was key. Since I too had trouble picking it up with a boat hook, I made a post by inserting a 1 1/4" wood dowel into a double thickness 12"X6"X1" base I'd drilled to match the post. A bicycle hook screwed into the side makes it easy to reach the dock line I'd hung there when leaving the dock. That set-up also made it easier to leave the dock in a cross wind. It worked so well, now that I have a slip where I enter bow first, I wouldn't be without it.


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## remoyer (Jan 17, 2002)

I used to own a Newport 30 - and backing it up is not as easy as you might wish. In my case, the key was to stop the boat, then apply reverse liberally to create sufficient speed. However, if you try to turn the boat at this point, you will find it very hard to control the rudder. So, once you have sufficient speed in reverse, put the gear in neutral/idle. Now you will be able to control the rudder, and your turn, much more easily. Practice in open water first. I think that you will be surprised at the amount of control that you have this way.


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## bkafer (Feb 22, 2009)

Get the boat moving in reverse, then take it out of gear and drive it right in 
prop walk moves your boat sideways and takes a LOT of getting used to.
so just get her moving and then let your wgheel do the work.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*PVC Spring line Contraption*

heyross can you post a picture of the PVC spring-line contraption you talked about in your thread?

Most marinas don't give you enough room to accelerate to get steerage when going in reverse. You can't "line-up" for your slip with 40' between slip ends and a 36' boat, wind, and current, good luck getting enough speed to steer your boat.

As for backing in, backing out, pulling in forward, and or pulling out forward, no matter what boat, what size, or what current, or what wind, it all comes down to practice, lines, and cleats.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

casey1999 said:


> Questions:
> Is there any way to start from 0 knots and then back your boat out of a slip without any lines attached? I single hand and find it impossible to untie the boat, jump on and back out. The prop walk makes her want to do a 360 in the slip. Have tried sputs of reverse power but nothing seems to work. I normally have a 15 knot wind trying to blow me back into the slip which does not help.
> 
> I have found the only thing I can do is pull the boat out as far as possible, then jump on and reverse out. By this time I am clear of obstacles and the prop walk is no a problem. Boat is an S&S 34.


I can do this in light air. Basically what you need to do with prop walk is position the boat to compensate. If the boat walks to port in reverse, start with the boat twisted anti-clockwise in the slip. A stern line that goes once around the starboard dock cleat then back to the cockpit helps. Also a light hand on the tiller helps as large movements just stall it.

So here is my procedure. There may be better ones, but it has worked up to now.

Engine is running, Starboard stern line just hooked around the nearest dock cleat and then back into the cockpit.
Pull the bow to the left side of the slip.
Quick! Jump in and use the stern line to keep the starboard stern close to the right side of the slip.
Free the stern line. Into reverse.
Out of reverse when the boat is going straight. 
Lightly on the rudder, or it will stall. 
Use just enough reverse to keep the boat moving, compensating for walk with LIGHT rudder.

I actually just use idle reverse all the way out of the slip. Others will suggest using bursts of higher power, I'm sure. Will try that sometime.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

mgiguere said:


> If your boat is like mine, it crawls to port when you accelerate in reverse. I usually line up perpendicular to the slip, maybe a boat-length away and hit reverse. The rear end will go left as if on a pendulum. The more power in reverse you apply, the more to the left it will go. If you reduce the power, then eventually it will go backwards more straightly (I know, not a word) letting the rudder engage. Now this formula is all dependent on the direction and force of the wind. When you line up perpendicular and the wind is blowing hard to starboard, then you have to be aggressive about setting the boat motion into the wind and powering hard to get to face it. Anyway, it's fun to work on it and successfully accomplish it. Rope guides from the inside to the outside posts help a lot. Good Luck.


If you go to Port in reverse
Point your tiller to the Port but not more than 45 degrees from the centre line or it acts as a break. Let the momentum do the work and not to much of it either


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## stargazer4318 (Jun 7, 2011)

*What about BIG boats?*

All of your posts are very interesting - but what about backing in a BIG boat? How do you know your bow is following your stern and not moving off into unwanted territory? Given the size of my boat (an H410) stern docking is actually preferable to bow docking unless I'm lucky enough to get an end dock. Bill on STARGAZER


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

stargazer4318 said:


> All of your posts are very interesting - but what about backing in a BIG boat? How do you know your bow is following your stern and not moving off into unwanted territory? Given the size of my boat (an H410) stern docking is actually preferable to bow docking unless I'm lucky enough to get an end dock. Bill on STARGAZER


Good question. In a tough crosswind, the bow is much harder to control when backing up. I have no reservation using the bow thruster to compensate.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

stargazer4318 said:


> All of your posts are very interesting - but what about backing in a BIG boat? How do you know your bow is following your stern and not moving off into unwanted territory? Given the size of my boat (an H410) stern docking is actually preferable to bow docking unless I'm lucky enough to get an end dock. Bill on STARGAZER


Line of sight with the back stay


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Good question. In a tough crosswind, the bow is much harder to control when backing up. I have no reservation using the bow thruster to compensate.


The question was how do you *know* not how do you compensate


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CapitainMike said:


> The question was how do you *know* not how do you compensate


I guess I am confused. I just turn my head and look, then correct if it isn't. What am I missing? Is the question, how do you know without looking?


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## STEFKE (Sep 12, 2008)

*what is it you want todo really???*

first a bit of applied psychology: 
What is it you really want todo?

Get your boat in there without damage to yours and the others 
or perform a "look how good a sailor I am" circus trick for the attending pontoon audience.

in the second case then there's only one road to travel ...the one all other circus people who are succesfull do : practice practice practice ...
hence the very good advice to practice a few hours in an empty bassin...

In the first case ... why not go in there in the way you feel comfortable...
Forward...!! and then turn the boat with lines or if there's not enough space bring her in with long lines altogether, going ashore with your dinghy first..;
What you need is just a bit of *selfrespect *and respect for your boat and the one of others ... disregarding with despise the "sailors" who stand on land
(and who always know better anyway)
Is'nt sailing something you do for yourself ...not for the others? well then!!!

In the Med where this backing on the anker is standard procedure I always do it with lines or go in there with a dinghy first, my boat at anker somewhere outside to have a look first what and how todo... no lurury for a single hander!!
Professional sailors with bigger boats than ours do it like that, here in the Antwerp ( Belgium)Container port... or they have assistance from pilot tow boats...is'nt that the equivalent of some smart and decent line work at our level?? Doing this, your wife will be very calmly mixing the drinks already ... what do you think?
So the question remains:
why do we have to be irresponsible "show of circus artists?" 
just for the amusement of the pontoon folks who sometimes do not even know the first thing about boating?

stefke


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I believe I can honestly say that I don't care one bit whether the peanut gallery likes the method I may use for any particular docking. These are my sole standards:

Nothing broken or scratched
No contact with anyone else's boat
No yelling or panic

Bonus points if it works on the first try. Doctoral degree if you kiss the fenders to the dock like Capt Ron.

Dock hand assistance, bow thrusters, spring lines, whatever, are all acceptable.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

STEFKE said:


> first a bit of applied psychology:
> What is it you really want todo?
> 
> Get your boat in there without damage to yours and the others
> ...


I always go in bow first, its the best for me. Look at the fishermen's boats in the Med always in bow first. good enough for them it's good enough for me. Though I do more bow out in the winter but then there is lots of space
the small ones come out on the quay the big ones stay in the water and then you get boat space, boat space, boat space, boat space, plenty of room to port and starboard.


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## tdtrimmer (Sep 18, 2000)

*Backing a sailboat*

The key to backing a sailboat is the shift lever if you have excessive prop walk. Use reverse to get the boat moving backward but immediately shift to neutral and coast. Shift back into reverse to pick up speed then back to coast mode. This minimizes prop walk and allows the water moving past the rudder to bring the stern in line. You may also find the bow swinging out as the boat moves backward with the rudder turned. Often a quick pop into forward will bring the bow back in. It's all in the shift lever feathering it back in forth; with a little help from the rudder.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

STEFKE said:


> first a bit of applied psychology:
> What is it you really want todo?
> 
> Get your boat in there without damage to yours and the others
> ...


1) Practice at any task makes one more capable. It is not something to be put down.

2) One should dock bow first or stern first as they feel most comfortable with and as the docking location and circumstances dictate. There are advantages to doing it both ways.

3) The suggestion to turn the boat after it has been docked doesn't work well in narrow slips at right angles of a narrow fairway. Especially where the boats in adjacent slips may be extended past the outer slip pilings. Also, in a narrow fairway, there isn't room to anchor first so as to have time to get a line ashore. However, if one can get a line to the pier (and anchor), it certainly is a valid and good way to help keep control of the boat (but keep in mind to keep the line out of the water sufficiently to avoid wrapping the prop. A heaving line (small line with weighted end) can also be useful in getting that first line ashore. The heaving line is tied to the heavier dock lines and thrown to someone on shore (assuming there is someone) who can haul the dock lines in and attach them to a cleat. The dock lines can then be tended from the boat. But in most cases, there is not someone on shore standing by.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

stefke, je hebt gelijk, but we're not on an anchor or mooring buoy, we are talking slips here. Most slips rented here in the States are length wise 10% to 15% under the boat length and most likely from 11 (3,33m) to 13.5ft (4,10m) wide for a 27'(8,10m) to 36'+ (11m) boats. So when trying to back up a 34' (10,3m)sailboat in a 30'(9m) slip that is 12'(3,63m) wide and your beam is 10.5'(3,18m) wide it doesn't matter if you have prop-walk, fenders(stoot-billen), lots of lines, dinghies, helpers on land and on the boat, etc., etc. All that matters is to go slow (no steerage) and have confidence that you will not damage anything, and practice and practice.
With 10% to 15% of your boat sticking out beyond thew finger pier/dock a lot of other factors, such as current and wind can play havoc on you.
Practice, practice, and go slow, forward or reverse doesn't matter as it most likely is always a "crap-shoot" but practice makes it seem easier to bystanders.


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## captflood (Jan 1, 2011)

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS another bout of the 7 Ps Rule planning ppreperation practice prevents piss poor performance. Get yourself in some open and safe water and play at parking the R-send near to a floating then a fixed thingy. To Denise She does Lie about her age She's doe'nt look old enoughf to be 30 AND IF MULTI HULL IS A GOOD DIEA WHY DON'T WE HAVE A MULTI HULL FISH? GO SAFE


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## Cptken (Apr 23, 2008)

The boat will back fine, but remember it takes about a boat length or 2 of movement to overcome the prop walk. Give your self enough room to get some sternway. Depending on your dock location that might mean backing down the alley. To get started accelerate hard in reverse for about 10 seconds, the stern will start to walk to port. Once you see the boat moving backward, power down and go to neutral, steer slightly to starboard to counteract the prop walk. Give another 10 second burst of reverse. you should have enough motion now for the rudder to be effective. Use reverse as necessary to drive into the slip.


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## RickWestlake (Sep 22, 2009)

Thank you, everybody - though this wasn't my question.

My malady was four times worse, as it was four-foot-itis ... from a very light, water-ballasted MacGregor 26X that lives on its trailer (properly described as a 26-foot sleepaboard sailing dinghy) to a Bristol 29.9 that I prefer, for now, to back into its slip. My first afternoon with "Halcyon" consisted of backing in, proceeding out, turning around and backing in again and again, until I felt reasonably competent in those wind and tide conditions.

One valuable suggestion I got from my broker is to leave one set of docklines permanently in place at my slip, so I don't have to roust 'em out when I "get home." Another is the use of a "spring line" to bring Halcyon to a stop with her stern the appropriate distance from the main dock; I have it secured to the same piling as the port bowline, and I've tied a large bight in the "boat end" that pulls me up 18 inches short of the dock when I drop the loop over my port-side genoa winch on the way in. And I took his suggestion to put a large bight in the "boat ends" of my bow lines, so I can just slip the line through the bow chocks and loop it over the horns of the bow cleats. 

Prop walk is a new problem to me, after the MacGregor's outboard engine that's linked to the twin rudders. Your explanations and instructions will be a big help, when I put them into practice next time I go sailing Halcyon.

I have no shame about backing and filling all I need, to get Halcyon safely into the slip. I would rather bore my neighbors with my hesitations and false starts and "try-agains" than entertain (or upset) them with expensive noises from a "smartly done" entry gone horribly wrong!


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

Two dock lines from main dock at bow end if you are going in bow first. Tied together at the ends and in the water attached to buoy. Rope from the first buoy to a second buoy at the entrance/opening to the pylons line to an anchor if you are allowed outside the berth.

Slide up to the second buoy retrieve the buoy pull yourself in till you arrive at the first buoy. Pull up your permanent lines (Lazy Lines)attached to the dock. tie off at the bow return to stern taking centre line with you and tie off on buoy to anchor line. on completion you can then do what you want with the pylons.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

Okay this having buoys, anchor lines, space to back-up to get steerage, all great and well if you have the room to do so and maneuver but in reality a lot of marinas are like this sketch







(open in separate window) try to maneuver your 32-36' boat around, especially when everybody is trying to leave to go down river to make the draw-bidge on time.
S/V 1 can just turn around in the 40'plus fairway between pilings (not boats), Remember boats can stick out 10% (3ft) past their 30' slips. It will be not easy to reverse a S/V 1, hey bow in and reverse out is hard enough. S/V 2 has it easier but they "overpay" for the larger slip. With the narrow slips all is iffy, the "expensive" slips 'A' can be lined with fenders/protective materials and all you could damage is your own boat. The 'B' slips without long finger piers give you a little more room to turn in/out, unless you have a 33' boat neighbor. As for a 36' boat (S/V 3)all is dicey in such a narrow marina, but it is done, even with a 35' slip and a 50' fairway it is hard.
Back to what is and has been said; only practice will make perfect and you'll keep your fingers crossed every time you try to dock. I like moderate wind and current(tide) as you can use it to your advantage (like having an extra drive/hand) Always have your mooring lines pre-set in your home slip so all you have to do is loop them around a cleat or make-fast point on your boat. And use a spring line to stop the boat.
99.99% of sailboats are designed to go forward with steerage (rudder) in the back, therefore it is always easier to go forward bow in first, they weren't designed to go backwards. It is like with cars they are designed to go forward and therefore are mostly parked front in first and we all know the front turns out far beyond what we expect when turning sharp while going backwards. (haven't we all been scratched/dented up in a rear quarter panel while parked at the grocery store)


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

This whole discussion brings one point to my mind, and I am not criticizing anybody for the choices they make only pointing out that sometimes there are other options than a miserable docking situation. 

I recently changed marinas and now pay more money for several reasons, not the least of which is that I can now dock bow in and have ample and abundant room to maneuver in and out in all but the most extreme conditions. Last marina was cheap but limited how I could approach, required backing in, my bow and my neighbor's bows all stuck out several feet beyond the pilings, and it was quite shallow. Every time I came in made me better at docking backwards and fortunately I didn't damage my or anybody else’s boats while working out a reliable technique (not everyone there can say that) but it is SOOOOO much nicer to come in and out without the worry. 

Even though I could probably dock now by pulling in forward slowly and reversing to a stop then casually setting dock lines (not because I am good just that I now have plenty of room and a nice dock with a long finger pier), I still grab a center cleated line as I come in. One line cleated and the boat goes nowhere while I finish tying up. I actually tie two lines onto the boat before I come into the marina, both of them to the shroud bases one on each side and led back to the cockpit winches(I do not have a center cleat). They are nice to have at hand to toss around a piling or cleat and keep the boat from drifting around in the dock. 

All very good advice on this thread. I am still waiting to see Captain Jack come in single handed with an outboard sputtering, crosswind of 10+, opposing current of 3+, 30ft fairway, and mega yachts each side (owners on deck watching and sipping brandy) with no center piling, a short finger pier and 4 inches to clear. That is a video I would pay to own


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Silvio said:


> All very good advice on this thread. I am still waiting to see Captain Jack come in single handed with an outboard sputtering, crosswind of 10+, opposing current of 3+, 30ft fairway, and mega yachts each side (owners on deck watching and sipping brandy) with no center piling, a short finger pier and 4 inches to clear. That is a video I would pay to own


Absolutely! Sign me up for a copy of that video too!


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Ok, next questioin. What if you do bang your neighbors boat, do you contact them and try to pay for the damage yourself or do you run it through your insurance company?


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

casey that always depends on cost and is it a sailboat you damaged or a motorboat 
But yea if you can't rub it out quick (i.e. no damage) always contact the boat owner.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

EJO said:


> casey that always depends on cost and is it a sailboat you damaged or a motorboat
> But yea if you can't rub it out quick (i.e. no damage) always contact the boat owner.


That settles it, I've got a 5 gallon pail of rubbing compound on order, just in case.
Thanks, Casey


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

EJO said:


> Most slips rented here in the States are length wise 10% to 15% under the boat length and most likely from 11 (3,33m) to 13.5ft (4,10m) wide for a 27'(8,10m) to 36'+ (11m) boats. So when trying to back up a 34' (10,3m)sailboat in a 30'(9m) slip that is 12'(3,63m) wide and your beam is 10.5'(3,18m) wide it doesn't matter if you have prop-walk, fenders(stoot-billen), lots of lines, dinghies, helpers on land and on the boat, etc., etc. All that matters is to go slow (no steerage) and have confidence that you will not damage anything, and practice and practice.


This is a real good point. Many have talked about using lines to control the boat when coming in or leaving. This is great when the slip configuration allows it. EJO makes a good point. Most of the slips that I've been in are shorter than my boat length and my current slip is narrow enough that I can barely have two fender widths between me and the boat next to me in the slip. Add to that an alley between docks that is about as wide as my boat is long, backing into the slip is way beyond my skill level. Given adverse wind and current, it can be a challenge even to come in bow first. Any docking that doesn't break, bend, or scratch anything is one that I consider successful.

Dave


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## SkiGull (Sep 6, 2009)

SVCarolena said:


> When we used to back in, we found springlines to be our best friends (as mentioned above). If you have pilings at the entrance end of your slip, rig two long lines on the pilings. When you return, pull up the pilings and grab the lines. Then, as you back in, you can pull on the line on whichever side you want the boat to turn. Of course, do this very slowly so you don't pull the lines out of your hands. You could also give them a half turn on a cleat. I was able to hold the lines in my hands at the helm, center the wheel, and back in perfectly with just a little tension on whichever line was necessary to keep the boat straight. Just kept the rudder centered and throttle at idle in reverse. Just as you are about completely in the slip, cleat both lines and keep the engine in gear while you attach the rest of your docklines. That will keep the boat right where you want it while you hook everything up. It took a few attempts to get everything in sync, but once we had a patten down it i was easy as pie no matter how windy.


Ditto


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

TQA said:


> You may have a boat that does not steer in reverse. I know I have had two! To be fair the Ryton did steer when at 3 knots or better but the Bombay - fuggedaboutit.


I have a nonsteerable in reverse type as well. I don't have the room to be manuvering her in tight quarters in reverse and we're talking a 26' boat.
When leaving, I back her out with the rudder hard over and she's slightly angled when I clear the fingers. I have an outboard connected to the rudder so the outboard is turned as well. Then prop walk is also something that is pulling the stern over in that direction. Still, she doesn't turn worth a damn in reverse. To get her headed the right direction after backing out I have to throw it into forward which promptly swings the bow over and she's pointed straight out of the marina. It works perfectly, though a dock neighbor watching me for the first time looked a little concerned when I put her in forward while the bow was pointed at his boat. :laugher

You just gotta play with it and learn how your boat handles. Seriously though, my boat would make a 200 ft diameter circle if in reverse and 20-30ft if in forward.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

One thing I notice is a dirty prop can make prop walk worse. I can have barnacles grow in a matter of weeks. Next hull out I will try barnacle buster (Petit). Until then, I need to do a lot of diving.

Check your prop.


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## CapitainMike (Apr 10, 2011)

If your not using it much and your diving put a bin liner over it


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