# Joint Ownership of Sailboats for the Unmarried



## RacheloftheBoatTramps (Apr 11, 2011)

Hello Ladies. My boyfriend and I have lived and cruised together for the past three years on a couple of small sailboats. We are not married and don't have any intention of getting formally married, but we're beginning to think we might be together for awhile. Previously, my boyfriend has purchased both boats with his money alone, paid for substantial improvements that would increase the value of the boat (windvane, EPIRB, etc.), and kept the money when they were sold. I have split the cost of slip rent, routine maintenance, charts, flags, etc. and scraped my weight in varnish. We are looking for a boat to keep now and we both have a good chunk of money to put into it, though probably not 50/50. We're a bit nervous as to how it would work out if we were to have a messy breakup in the years ahead. Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to set up a co-ownership arrangement so that we could legally divide things up fairly if all goes to hell? Can you title a boat under two peoples names? Do you need to draw up some sort of contract? If we were buying a house, we could set up a tenants in common arrangement, but what do you do if your house ain't a house?


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## sevseasail (Jan 15, 2007)

I would create and register a partnership (sort of business but you'll have to find out exactly what kind of partnership this will be as the main porpoise is not business ) which, as you mention would have to establish ownership percentage if not 50/50. Then, have the entity buy and run the boat; that way everything (expenses, maintenance and also gain/loss) will be proportional to your ownership percentage and when/if things get dissolved, then the distribution is pretty much straight forward.
I set a business like that a few years ago and my CPA helped me with the documents. You can do it on your own if you know what you're doing, or else look for an accountant or maybe even an attorney to set up the partnership.

I hope that helps.
Willy.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

See an attorney and have them draw up a legally binding document. If you don't, then you're bound to miss something and someone will regret it. I see it all too often at my office. A couple neglects to have a proper agreement drafted and they end up fighting over assets.

It may cost you between $300 and $500, but just the attorney's fees to negotiate a disagreement will run many times that, and that is if you don't have to take the issues to trial.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

*Title in Two Names*



RacheloftheBoatTramps said:


> Can you title a boat under two peoples names?


Yes. My boyfriend and I are both on our boat's title.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

To OP:

Can you just sweet talk to him or may be give him a massage while asking him to buy s bigger boat using "his" money and you keep you money in the bank. This will make thing simple and the lawyer can't make any money from the deal. 

If it does not work, we have Plans B and C or B plus C which is Plan D. :laugher


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I would offer this: Let one of you buy the boat. The other can put an amount into an account to cover more of the boat bills. This way one of you would spend more money, the other would eat the depreciation.

If things go south, one of you can walk away and the other keep the boat. Most importantly you won't have the stress of being "locked into a relationship". 

I've seen more than a few "happy" couples blow it by complicating things and it seems that you might be a couple who thrives on simplicity. JMHO.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

We do settlement agreement quite often at my office. Unless they take everything into consideration, there could be trouble. You should let an attorney draw an agreement up. Should not take but a few hours and could save thousands in future attorneys' fees and costs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RacheloftheBoatTramps said:


> .....We are not married and *don't have any intention of getting formally married*, but we're beginning to think *we might* be together for awhile........


Then don't buy assets together. This is simple.

Attorney's would feast on trying to write agreements to accommodate this lack of commitment, then argue over its validity later.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

I would agree to keep the lawyers out of it if at all possible. You have already said that you can't go 50-50 on the boat, so let's say it's 70-30. Are you going to split upgrades and equipment costs 70-30 as well? What a pain. And what if you break up and nobody wants to sell the boat, but neither can afford to buy the other out, even if you could compute a fair value. Headaches! I would let him buy the boat, but stress that he must also pay for maintenance and upgrades. Half the slip rent & varnishing could be considered your "rent" for otherwise living for free. Put your cash into AT & T stock with a 6% dividend, and if you break up, I'm sure you'll be better off.

Mike


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Then don't buy assets together. This is simple.
> 
> Attorney's would feast on trying to write agreements to accommodate this lack of commitment, then argue over its validity later.


I agree that no one should ever buy assets together. I disagree with the generalization that attorneys feast on trying to write agreements. I know two, and they are both reputable. In fact, they would not be part of our association if they were not.

Good attorneys, which may be hard to find where you are, do not feast on anything with the exception of what they swore an oath to. If you can find a good one, they should help you, at a reasonable rate, to solve your problems.

Call or contact your local Bar association. Most attorneys are required to give back to the community. They must provide, pro bono, services to those that cannot afford them. We give away many thousands of dollars of work every year, at my firm.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

tomperanteau said:


> ......It may cost you between $300 and $500.......





tomperanteau said:


> ......Good attorneys, which may be hard to find where you are, do not feast on anything with the exception of what they swore an oath to. If you can find a good one, they should help you, at a reasonable rate, to solve your problems.....


Tom, I'm not into attorney bashing, although it is fun. I'm not suggesting that all attorneys are crooks, but they do have student loans to repay.

This was my point above. That kind of money is only considered reasonable within the context of a law firm making a living on the law. Otherwise, its a pretty good meal compared to the better advice..... "don't do it and save your money".

We both know that no matter what you write, it won't disallow an action to refute it later, it would only serve as the basis for your success after spending thousands to defend it.

My advice remains pro bono.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Chris12345 said:


> This thread is turning into an infomercial for legal services, is it?
> Tsk, tsk, in many countries attorneys are not allowed to advertise at all, you might be breaking law here...
> 
> But think for a second about the pro bono idea: A couple who buys a sailboat substantial enough to seriously worry about sharing the asset would hardly qualify as needy, would they?


Maybe you can tell me where I advertised anything regarding a law office or services. As someone who manages a law office, I am well-aware of the laws, but thank you for your legal advice on this.

Are you an attorney? If not, then perhaps you might not want to advise me on what is legal and what is not. That might indeed be illegal.

Now, if you are legally advising the OP, then you are breaking the law.

Be sure you know of what you speak, lest you could get yourself into trouble.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Minnewaska:

Let's see... You buy a boat with someone and then there is a break up. If you spent $20k on the boat and had no air tight agreement, you could be out many thousands if they take you to court and make claims, false or otherwise. That compared to a few hundred to draw up a simple contract? Cheap insurance, really.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Again, you folks need to be careful about giving out legal advice. If someone takes it, then you could be liable and named in a suit. I know - we've done it. Telling someone they do not need an attorney is VERY close to giving them legal advice. Unless you have a law degree and are licensed to practice in the state they are in, it isn't wise to give advice like that.

You wouldn't think of telling someone they didn't need to go to the doctor if they might be sick, so why in the world would you, unless you were an attorney, tell someone they did not need an attorney to advise them on something that could cost them thousands of THEIR dollars, not yours.

Just to set things straight, I have no idea what state the OP is in. And after commenting on this thread, we would not be able to represent them anyway. Let's please not accuse anyone of trying to advertise legal services. There is no place in this thread that I have done such.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Geesh Tom, most of the advise is to not engage in a transaction that requires a contract at all. Just say no!!

There is no legal advice being profered, just the opposite. Avoid the legal problem by not engaging in the issue.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Well geesh, Minne, telling someone they don't need an attorney regarding an issue that clearly has legal implications is tantamount to giving [wrong] advice. As I stated, you would not advise on a medical matter, so it is not prudent to advise on a legal matter, which a contract between two people is.

We've seen far too many trusting people end up in court because they did not have a good contract when they entered into agreements with others. I'm speaking from experience. We're not talking about a small investment, and we're talking about people that will have some emotional attachment to the situation and a fair amount of money at risk. Mix all that together and you have a recipe for trouble unless you have a set of rules in place. To tell someone they don't need those legally binding rules is irresponsible. As irresponsible as giving any other advice that should be reserved for professionals with the experience to know.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

I actually consulted with one of the attorneys that has handled contract law here at my office (we were in a late meeting). She has handled business contracts as well as prenuptial agreements. She thought that it would be a very bad idea for anyone to enter into an agreement of this nature for the amount of money that may be spent on a sailboat without an agreement that would be legally binding.

I would hope that this young couple would consult with someone before they decide to lay their hard-earned cash down to jointly buy something this valuable.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Goodness sakes, Tom. The advice we are giving is to NOT buy the boat together. No need for legal advice or a contract. What's the block?


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Stupid question... if you aren't committed enough to marry, what makes you think you are committed enough to buy a boat together? I'll crawl under my rock now.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

Hey we bought a boat together, after we have been together for over 12 years. And we bought a house together about 6 years ago as well. The being married part wasn't important. We finally ended up making it legal when we tried to do estate planning.


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## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

check your state laws on commanlaw, you may not have a paper that says your married but if you are considered commanlaw then it's mute as the law already sees you as married. and division of assests are done like a grumpy married couple getting divorced.

The fact that you question it already states you are worried, so donot put your cash in at all, have hime cover thhe costs as it will be is boat. Buy your own groceries when you over night and your good to go


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

This could almost be a litmus test for a relationship, no? Don't get involved with someone who has the kind of mean streak that makes you think s/he would make a breakup ugly instead of civil. Assuming that test has been passed, it seems straightforward to title it in both names and set up a contract, tracking how much money each of you has put into the initial purchase, and the ongoing maintenance, and if necessary to sell, divide the assets in proportion to how much money was put in. Also design a way to account for the value of work you do yourself - how much would it cost to pay someone to scrape the varnish?


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

I just went through this, the ex GF bought the boat.

We broke-up and it was civil.

but...


Somehow all the money and time I spent on upgrades or slip and boat payments amounts to exactly nada.

OTOH, she spent a lot of time and energy on my house as well, and I kept that so I guess it all worked out.

Not to mention the fact that I was actually kinda emotionally attached to the boat.

It's definitely better to define very clearly up front who-pays for what.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Sorry, but I agree with Minnewaska !!


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## Bussy (Jul 19, 2007)

In Canada when you federally register a boat you get to name the owner(s) and how many of the 64 shares each owns. The split can be anything. Is there no such thing in the US?


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

Bussy said:


> In Canada when you federally register a boat you get to name the owner(s) and how many of the 64 shares each owns. The split can be anything. Is there no such thing in the US?


No, you'd have to draw up a partnership agreement and then that contract would be the point of contention in any court litigation.


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## GMC (Sep 14, 2009)

The dialog here is curious as the original poster specifically asked for advice on the law. One of the posters, who is a sailor and works at a law office and apparently is a participant in a shared ownership agreement is attacked for practicing law or advertising on this blog. He was just trying to help. To exclude opinions on the law from this blog would be like excluding opinions on engine repair or sail trim. For better or worse, the law is part of sailing. Anyway, my two cents for the original poster is that at the least she and her mate hold title jointly in the boat. If they want to keep better track of the pennies and sweat and the implications of a break up, they can do an agreement - with the understanding that agreements get broken and challenged and don't always guarantee a smooth division. Good luck to the couple involved. Have fun.


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

see this story for a 'worst case' scenario  Pacific Northwest Boating News: After rescue at sea, wife left to pick up the pieces of a broken dream | Three Sheets Northwest


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