# Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi, I am in Oregon visiting family and getting supplies ready. Soon I am going to go up to Puget Sound to buy a sailboat under $5000 to sail to the San Juans and Gulf Island, well the PNW, wherever I feel to go at the time. 

Should be done singlehanded.

There's not as many options on craigslist as I'd like, but there are some. Not enough that I can really pick a boat and find it, say I'd like a Cal 25, there's not necessarily any listed, but there is a smattering of nice boats listed. I though I'd post this here so I can ask questions and get general advice on boats I see. Also, the boats in Seattle sell the fastest, and the rest are spread around the sound, so I don't want to drive to far for a poor candidate.

Today my two questions are:

1: One boat said the bottom was redone with a roller and enamel paint last year. Maybe he was just talking, but is enamel used for bottoms? You know some people do some strange things.

2: A "nice " interior was partially redone with non marine grade materials. Stuff from home depot to make counters and wood trim.


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## IMAnonymous (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't know about #1. But your question applies to the bottom fouling.

As for #2, marine plywood should have been used. However, water has to get to it. If the surface is well sealed to prevent spilled water from getting to the plywood then dry rot is your only concern which could take years and years. You can help slow/prevent this by painting /sealing the exposed bottom side of the plywood as a vapor barrier.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

1) Ask for the exact product used for the paint. Enamel is too generic of a term and perhaps he used real bottom paint.

2) Most boats made in the last 40 years for your price range have an interior fiberglass liner that provides the structure for the furniture. Was that removed for this boat, or is it just that additional furniture (new table, shelves, simple stuff) was made with non-marine wood? If his woodwork is non-structural, is functional, and isn't ugly then it's probably not a major problem.

When I bought my Pearson there were just about as many boats being sold in Anacortes and Bellingham (about an hour from each other) as in the Seattle-area.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks! The fibreglass and bulkhead were left intact.

I would say half of the cheap sailboats are in Tacoma, and half again in Tyee Marina. Which is fine.

I like this one alot.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/3675458297.html


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

"Previous owner removed head (including walls) "

That should raise alarm bells. "Including walls" means they removed the bulkheads. What are the chainplates attached to now?

This Newport 27 sounds a lot better for about the same price:
Newport 27 Sailboat


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Alex W is right as rain about removing the bulkheads.
Big red flag.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

CalebD said:


> Alex W is right as rain about removing the bulkheads.
> Big red flag.


Ditto... the second listing is a much better bet.. no need to put your trust in someone's less-than-brilliant structural modifications.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Ranger 23

Simple, proven, looks to be in good shape.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

+1 on the Ranger 23. It;s a delightful performer.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Hudsonian said:


> +1 on the Ranger 23. It;s a delightful performer.


As is the R26... with a bit more space...


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

you read my mind on the ranger, that's the one where they said they put enamel bottom paint on. I'll give him another call tomorrow and ask exactly what he meant. I could go check that one out. Port Townsend's a little far...so I want to nail down any questions I might have before I go up there.

I was reading a book at the bookstore that had short reviews on small sailboats and they had nothing but good to say about the Ranger 23.

Ok, so a no on the newport 27 in Tacoma. I want no red flags.

My short list is:
The Ranger 23
I've been trying to call and email the newport 27 in Bellingham but he hasnt answered or responded.

25' sailboat: Capri 25 named "SYZYGY"
I've talked to him, he's out of town this weekend, can show next week. I know it's more of a racer, but I like the way it looks, I read that the only boat in it's class faster is the j24. Has a good outboard.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A Capri 25 is indeed more of a racer and will have the interior comforts that go with that.. pretty much none. It's a pretty boat and quick for its size, nice big cockpit and will make a terrific daysailer but not much of a weekender compared to say a Ranger 26 or a Catalina 25..

Contacts through craigslists are often problematic.. I'm not positive that all 'emails' get through to the seller.

Here's another candidate:

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I like that. I've heard really good things about the c&c. It's not hard to take down a mast and put it back and then launch is it? Tere have been a couple boats I've seen in Portland, but I thought maybe it wouldn't be worth the hassle?

I wouldn't know though. I'd really only have to do it once, but I'll have to do it alone...


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Getting the mast up on a 25' boat will take 2 or 3 people (assuming the mast step has a tabernacle). 3 is safest the first time, once you've practiced you can probably do it with 2. 1 person is not enough.

You'll also need a large truck to trailer a boat like that.

It still could be a good option to consider. Price out what it would cost to have it delivered to a yard in Seattle (I'd try Canal) and for them to step the mast. I'm guessing in total this would cost you at least $1500, but if you can get a nice boat for $1500 less then it could work out.

I don't believe that is a 1992 boat, you'd want to check other details too.

You could also investigate going up by boat. That's open ocean though and I'd want to do a lot of research before attempting it. I have no experience sailing out there.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Don't think taking a new-to-you C&C 25 down the Columbia and out around to Puget Sound is really an advisable plan - it's a tough trip for anyone, but esp in a small boat and a new owner.. so trucking will be the ticket.

The C&C is sitting on a trailer, but no mention of it being part of the deal. There is a lot of boat moving traffic between California and the PNW.. it shouldn't be too hard to get in on another move and utilize an 'empty' trip back, or room on a large boat mover's rig that would save you some money. Do some research and you'll find something. There will be some cost at each end, though, ideally you'll need some sort of lift/mast tower/crane/hiab to do the mast stepping. It's a good time to inspect/replace things up there too...


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

FWIW you mentioned wanting to go to the San Juans and Gulf Islands from Puget Sound and as someone who has done it with a small boat/outboard, I can tell you I feel much better in a larger boat/inboard--big water/straits out there and many times we were swamped by ferries/large freighters, even a Coastie who flew out to check us out only to bury our engine with his wake. I'd be patient and wait for the right combination of low cost/safe boat...


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I disagree with Joy, having also done it in a smallish boat with an outboard.

A larger boat with an inboard is going to have a much more comfortable sea motion. There are places in the Salish Sea where you can find 4' waves, but with careful planning around currents and weather (easy if you have all summer for your adventure) that is rarely a concern. I like bigger boats, but you'll have to be very lucky to find a ~30' boat with an inboard that is in seaworthy condition for under $5000 in the next couple of months. Since you are on a tight budget (and I assume that includes covering any necessary immediate repairs) a smaller boat is going to be a lot simpler and easier to work on.

The smaller boat will also save you money every time you use overnight moorage, especially if you have a solar panel and don't have to use shore power. A 25' boat without shore power will save $10/night in most marinas in the Salish Sea compared to a 30' boat with shore power, and that adds up quickly if you are using docks 2-4 times per week. I also think that a 25' boat is the sweet spot between simplicity, easy single handing and docking in rough conditions, and being safe (perhaps not comfortable) in adverse conditions.

With the right outboard (25" prop shaft) a 25' boat won't swamp or caviatate the outboard frequently, even in 3' and 4' waves.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes, the costs add up very quickly, especially in the Gulf Islands at marinas.

I agree, Alex, that with careful planning he should be ok. I wasn't sure from his original post how familiar he was with the water here--it's nothing to take lightly. But, seems the boats he's considering are a bit more stout than our former San Juan 24 (which was a delight, all things considered...).


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm a little familiar. I went kayak camping for a month a couple summers ago, so I had to learn the tide charts and weather.

I also learned to sail in Hawai'i and have been out in 50 knots and 12 foot seas. Not regularly, but I have. 

No way I'm sailing from Portland though. Maybe I'd consider it if it was the PERFECT boat and the heart of summer. But everything I've read is that getting across the Columbia river bar to the Pacific is the worst one the west coast. Then it's a lee shore with really bad weather and no harbours all the way up to the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and I have heard that isn't always pleasant either.

I should buy a boat, in the water and ready in Puget Sound.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

northoceanbeach said:


> I'm a little familiar. .....
> 
> I should buy a boat, in the water and ready in Puget Sound.


That would be easiest.. but you don't need to limit yourself to Puget Sound per se. The delivery from southern BC is not bad esp if you choose the right weather and tides, and Pt Roberts is another possible motherlode of sadly disused boats that may be available. Right now you'd have a slight Dollar value advantage buying in Canada.

I know of a nice Tanzer 26 (Sloop Du Jour) in Pt Roberts for sale, it's listed at near 10K but I'd suggest that any bonafide offer might be considered. It's at Steelaweigh.. They are a boat with a good reputation, will sail well and have a decent interior for it's size.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I wasn't really being serious about sailing up from Portland. I mostly wrote it because I thought someone else might write it later.

There is a boat called Sloop Du Jour docked near me in Shilshole, though it isn't a Tanzer 26. Cute name. 

How easy or hard are title transfers for boats purchased in BC and registered in WA? I didn't look at BC boats due to that concern, but I also didn't research it heavily because I found plenty of boats to consider in the Puget Sound.

Finally, Port Townsend has a very large marina. If you make an appointment to look at that Ranger 23 then you should schedule it early in the day and take some time to walk the rest of the marina looking for "for sale" signs. There are a lot more boats for sale than what shows up on CL and Yachtworld, and I don't know how to find most of them without just seeing for sale signs.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm sure there are, I mean, there have got to be more than I am seeing on Craigslist.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

For you Washingtonites. Is it true that once I buy a boat I have to go sitch the title to my name and pay about a 10% sales tax on the purchase price? An tricks to get around that?

That would be a reason to buy the C&C in Portland.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Whether you buy the boat or not in WA you are supposed to transfer the title, pay sales tax (varies by county, but 8-10% is correct), and register the boat in WA. If you are not going to keep the boat in WA (take it to OR after the summer) you would want to title it in Oregon.


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## jeffzee (May 30, 2007)

i like the newport 27 listed in Bellingham, i think that would be a hard boat to match for what your looking for! I also keep my boat in bellingham, i might see if i can find it, i will let you know what it looks like in person!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

ok, that would be good. I did get a chance to talk to him as well, let him know I was coming up early next week. Didn't seem too flexible on price, but nice guy. Sounds like a good boat too. He definitely sailed it.


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## jeffzee (May 30, 2007)

Looks just like it does in the add, no surprises, has a nice mainsail cover, everything looks pretty decent! For the money, from what i can see, seams like a good deal.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

ok, thanks for taking a look. It looks like boats are selling pretty slow, so I've expanded my list to include a Kirby 25. I think I'm leaving sunday. Hope I pick the right one.


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## jeffzee (May 30, 2007)

i know ive been extremely disappointed when ive gone to look at a boat that looked good in the pics, but was a mess in person. The Newport lives up to its add! Is the kirby in bellingham as well?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

That Kirby looks like it might be at Shilshole. If I see it on one of my neighboring docks I'll take a quick look at the exterior.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

No, the Kirby is in Elliot. Thanks though. I just talked to him. I'm packing today and tomorrow to come up Sunday or monday.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Good luck, tell us what you end up with. I'll be cruising the same waters as you this summer and will keep and eye out for you.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I know a nice C&C24 on the market, a few bucks over your budget though 

That C&C25 that was posted earlier, looks like someone took a saw to the bottom of the rudder, or they bought a scrap of marine ply and built their own.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I have a feeling it isn't a C&C rudder at all. It doesn't have the balanced profile of a C&C 25 rudder.

It happens, my Catalina 25 came with a different rudder too. The original one had been damaged (probably made contact with a prop blade, then got a soggy core) and the PO just bought what was easy and could be made to fit rather than the proper rudder. I replaced it with a proper balanced rudder down the line.


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## sprega (Jun 25, 2002)

There is a 24 ft Kent ranger on Seattle Craigslist for under $2500. A little IORish, but, neat unsinkable boats that sail and cruise quite well. Also, IMHO nice looking....


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I saw the ad for the Kent Ranger, it would be a great boat, and I haven't seen it in person, but I've got a feeling it hasnt been well cared for recently, I could be totally wrong though. From being slightly patient, and looking early season, I think for 4-5 I can find a boat that is ready to go. Not a Swan, but a good boat. Not that I'm trying to knock this Ranger, because for all I know it's awesome. It's on my list and I'll probably be surprised that one boat that looked perfect in the ad is bad in real life, and one that looked bad is nice.

Keep them coming though, unless they are owned by someone with the poor taste to paint it Orange or something. Really I'll take anything as long as it's not Orange. But I don't even know why I bring this up since the odds of me coming across an Orange sailboat for sale in the PNW are virtually non existent.

I am 'provisioning' tomorrow, which means I'm packing. Hopefully I'll go early sunday, but knowing myself I bet I go late sunday, early monday. It's 5-6 hours away.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

PaulinVictoria said:


> I know a nice C&C24 on the market, a few bucks over your budget though
> 
> That C&C25 that was posted earlier, looks like someone took a saw to the bottom of the rudder, or they bought a scrap of marine ply and built their own.


That's the scary part. I'll not see the bottom unless I slap on a wetsuit and dive, and even then, would I know I was getting the wrong rudder?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Transom hung rudders can be popped off of their pintles with very little work, then you can compare them to standard drawings for that boat (or better yet find measured drawings of the stock rudder).

Looking for signs that pintles have been moved or a strange tiller to rudder connection would also be a good hint.

You should inspect the rudder regardless anyway. Any signs of swelling or a crack along the rudder seam are a bad sign and show that water has gotten into the core. I knew that the rudder was not right when I bought my Catalina 25 and negotiated appropriately. Replacing the rudder was one of the first things that I did.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Oh and it's not painted orange either, it's an original gelcoat colour from C&C. Looks fantastic IMHO, makes a change from all those dull white ones out there, and everyone knows that orange is the fastest colour too


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Oh and it's not painted orange either, it's an original gelcoat colour from C&C. Looks fantastic IMHO, makes a change from all those dull white ones out there, and everyone knows that orange is the fastest colour too


I like it in the pictures! Not sure if I would have been brave enough to order it new, but it would not keep me from it if it happened to fall in my lap!


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

It was the 70s


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It looks awesome.

Yeah, I've written somewhere else on here how my first boat had rotten wood backing plates for the rudder....

my second boat, a catalina 22 had a fractional rig put on it...


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

How's the shopping? Did you make it up to Puget Sound yet and check out of any of these boats in person?


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## Rusty123 (Sep 28, 2012)

northoceanbeach said:


> For you Washingtonites. Is it true that once I buy a boat I have to go sitch the title to my name and pay about a 10% sales tax on the purchase price? An tricks to get around that?
> 
> That would be a reason to buy the C&C in Portland.


By law, you've got to title it in Washington if it resides in Washington.

Here's a tip though: Washington recently changed their vehicle/boat licensing rules such that the tax is based on the fair market value, rather than the sales price (too many people claiming they bought their car for $5). However, when I titled my new-to-me sailboat last year (a 1981 Spirit 28), DMV couldn't find the model in their database, so they relied on the title slip figure anyway.

What I wished I had done, and what I'd encourage others to do, is to negotiate your sales price such that you separate the boat from the contents (most used boats include lots of stuff inside). When you fill out the title, ask the seller to indicate the price of the boat only, not the contents. No sense paying tax (again) on dishes and life jackets. Up to you and the seller what fair value of that stuff is.

If the boat is on the DMV database it probably won't matter, but if not, you might save a few bucks.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Current list:

27' Catalina Sailboat

Ranger 23

Kirby 25 Sailboat

25' sailboat: Capri 25 named "SYZYGY"

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/3685964342.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/3689724938.html

Why is that Catalina 27 so cheap? They aren't normally that cheap. He said the bottom hasn't been painted in about four years but thereabouts hard growth. Seems a good deal.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

That Catalina 27 doesn't appear to have any cushions (just generic chair cushions are being used), old sails, and might be an inboard model with the outboard retrofit to it. It's hard to tell how well it has been maintained and is an older model. The price seems inline with what I'd expect.

For the same price this Catalina 25 looks better, thought it does have an old motor and the original ugly, uncomfortable, and likely smelly cushions:
25' Catalina Sailboat - Tall Rig

The Catalina 25 is about the same speed as the 27 (it has the same waterline length), but doesn't have standing headroom unless you are 5'8" or smaller, and has a little less interior storage.

Based on ads alone I think I like the Ranger 23 and Santana 27 best of your list, but the Santana ad is missing a lot of information (like sail condition and good interior photos).


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## c. breeze (Feb 18, 2013)

Is that tartan 27 still for sale on Whidby? I think he was asking 6500, but its been for sale long enough that 5 might make it happen, the guy asks for offers specifically in his add.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't know, I haven't seen anything listed, I'll check.

The tall rig Catalina does look nice, but has a swing keel, I don't think I want a swing keel.

The Catalina 27 according to owner, never had an inboard.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I didn't notice the swing keel, I agree on avoiding those if you don't have any use for a trailer.

The Catalina 27 was made in both inboard and outboard forms, it's nice that this is an outboard model. It is easy to see which version the boat is from the rear, but they don't have any good photos from there. I still don't think it's an amazing deal, but it could be if you do a careful inspection and haul out and see that it is in good condition with no blisters or a smile or anything else. If it has new sails, an autopilot, recent rebedding of deck hardware, new running or standing rigging then it's under priced.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I assume you've seen this one?
1980 US 25 sailboat

It leaves you a lot of left over budget.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Copied this from your other thread since it is more on topic in this one:


> Not to change topics, but why is everyone, including my friends and family who I show the boats I am looking at so in favour of the Ranger? I like it, don;t get me wrong, but what are others seeing that I am not? Are they just really good boats? Are they super hardy? I realized that if I trust my boat, I love to sail in high(ish) winds, say 15-25 knots.


The photos of the Ranger show that the buyer cares enough to have cleaned up a little bit before taking the photos. Most of the other boats that you are looking at have interior photos where the boat is just filled with trash. I'm guessing that is why your friends and family get excited about it. Look at the photos side by side with the Catalina 27 (which is cleaner than some of the boats that you've considered) and it is easy to see.

I like it out of everything listed because it appears to be the combination of the best equipped and best maintained. New clean cushions and outboard will also make it easiest to sell at the end of your trip. I have a feeling that the boat would have sold weeks ago if it were listed in Seattle instead of Port Townsend.

Quality wise the Ranger should be at least as good as anything else that you are looking at and has a reputation for sailing really well. Since you have extra time this week you could watch the B-movie "The Dove" (it is free on Netflix) if you want to see one in action. This movie is based on a true story about a teenager sailing circumnavigating in the 60s. In the real world the sailor used a Cal 24, but in the film they used a Ranger 23.

Ultimately what is going to matter on all of these is how well they've been taken care of. The fact that the Ranger owners both to keep it washed, the interior tidy, and can list recent upgrades/work shows that it was likely well loved and maintained in mechanical ways too. You can't know until you inspect it though.

The US 25 looks like a good deal, but it also looks like a 3/4 done project (the interior walls are raw fiberglass for instance). Those boats always make me wonder what happened, why is it being sold? It appears to be being sold at a major loss too, which again makes me wonder why (and why hasn't it sold yet)? It could be something fine where the seller needs the money and can't pay for moorage anymore. It could be something bad like they and most people who've looked at the boat have found a fundemental flaw and they are just trying to dump it while they can.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Alex W said:


> The US 25 looks like a good deal, but it also looks like a 3/4 done project (the interior walls are raw fiberglass for instance). Those boats always make me wonder what happened, why is it being sold? It appears to be being sold at a major loss too, which again makes me wonder why (and why hasn't it sold yet)? It could be something fine where the seller needs the money and can't pay for moorage anymore. It could be something bad like they and most people who've looked at the boat have found a fundemental flaw and they are just trying to dump it while they can.


The US25 is certainly at a good price point, these boats are not as fast as they look like they should be, IIRC the bulkheads are not fully (if at all) tabbed in and the cockpits are teeny tiny.. racing with 3 aboard was very tight.

The fact that the hull sides (ceilings) below are bare is probably a good thing. The boats were originally 'carpeted' and in all likelihood the ports and stanchions leaked and the stuff got wet/rotten/moldy... at that price and as a project it's kind of attractive to have the 'demolition' stage mostly done. I imagine the cutout liner around the new ports is part of the port replacement, unfortunately that's going to take some imagination to clean up.

Agree with Alex (and others) that of all those boats the Ranger will be the better sailer, (even though both it and the US25 are Gary Mull designs) with the exception of the Santana 27 which looks a sweet boat and will have a bit more room, and speed, I'd think.


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## sprega (Jun 25, 2002)

I would still check out the 24ft Kent ranger of Craigslist. The price is certainly right and they are good boats


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

You should read the Practical Sailor review for the Ranger 23. It tells you the common weak points and gives you a lot of history and design intentions for this boat. 

In comparing the US 25 and Ranger 23 (just the details, not these particular boats), this is what jumps out at me:
* US 25 is full-on IOR, Ranger 23 isn't. Win: Ranger
* Interior space: US 25 is 18" longer and 1" wider. This gives it just enough room for an enclosed head. Win: US 25
* Likely comfort: Ranger 23 B/D is 44%, it carries a lot of weight in it's keel. The US 25 is 33%. That'll make the Ranger feel stiffer and easier to single hand (when you don't have a crew to sit on the weather rail). Win for your purposes: Ranger
* SA/D is pretty much a tie.
* Sail plan is more balanced on the Ranger (this goes back to the IOR aspect of the US 25). The smaller jib will be easier to handle and when the wind picks up you can reef the main first. Win: Ranger
* Construction quality: read the PS review. The Ranger 23 was built with no limitations from the manufacturer on build quality from a higher end production builder. The US 25 was built by a budget motor boat company experimenting with sailboats. Win: Ranger

I think that the US 25 in Tacoma is a attractive price for a boat with recent work and worth looking at primarily for that reason. However I think it would be a mistake to see that boat without looking at the Ranger as well (and the Santana 27, though I don't see it on CL anymore). PT and Tacoma are only 1.5 hours apart.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Good responses. Thank you. 

-stupid practical sailor, trying to make me pay, don't they realize this is the internet?

-the Santana is still listed, on the 18th, they just work it strange.

-yes, I think after my trip is done, assuming I leave the area, I'll bring the boat to Seattle to sell.

-I don't mind a small cockpit, since I'll singlehand mostly, and aren't small ones better in a pooping?

-it not having design compromises to fit rules, and just being built to sail is good. You are right, I have no rail meat.

-To me, the santana looks a little trashed, in the last picture it has a walmart tarp for a sail cover, and in the interior is has weird cushions, and towels on the galley, probably to absorb all the water coming down the chainplates !!

You guys should go to Hawai'i some time and see what a sailboat sells for there, your definition of 'trashed' would change very quickly. that's why it's hard for me to see the trees in the forest, they all look good to me. I want a good deal as much as everyone else, but I don't mind getting the Ranger for double for the reasons you listed.

-i still like the Tanzer. any more thoughts on the Tanzer?

-I'm glad I didn't leave earlier this week, since I really am in no hurry, am having fun in Eugene, and the weather turned nasty, and the weather is only getting better as we move into spring, but mostly after the two boats I wanted, the Ranger and the Tanzer both had people looking at them, and they didn't sell, it made me realize that it really is a buyer's market and I should relax and take my time and look, and the boat I want will probably still be there. They are NOT selling quick. Maybe if they are in SEATTLE with a transferable slip, but otherwise no, the farther out the worse too.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't like Tanzer 22s. I've never looked closely at the 7.5 (even though a 7.5 or 26 is in a slip next to mine). I'm biased by seeing 22s. They don't seem very well built to me.

For sailing and one month sailing-oriented lifestyle before kicking off a big trip I'd rather be in Port Townsend than Seattle, and I'd rather be in Seattle than Tacoma. 

The weather has been a lot better than the forecast predicted. Right now it's sunny and breezy.

I have no problem with paying the small subscription rate to Pratical Sailor. They have good content and it's saved me more than what I pay to subscribe. Their boat review archive is pretty helpful.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Odd.... Tanzer's generally have a pretty good rep for sailing ability and construction... My problem with them is primarily aesthetic, I don't think they are very pretty boats.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

There are 3 on the dock with my old Catalina 25. This is an unusual number since there are 16 boats there total, all under 25', mostly sailboats. It is doubly unusual that this is Seattle and none of them are San Juan 24s.

One of the Tanzer 22s is getting new windows and the cabin sides appear to basically be gelcoat over 3/8" plywood with almost no glass on either side. He's had other problems too that I don't remember the details of. The other two Tanzer 22s are mostly ignored (I've never seen anyone at one of them, the other guy tries to sell his about twice a year and otherwise doesn't visit it). Plus they are really ugly.

Practical Sailor seems to think that they are better built than I do, so maybe my impressions are out of line.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh, no, no. I was just kidding about practical sailor. I know it's worth it, I just clicked on it and was surprised that's all. Crap, if I make to many joke on here about being cheap though, people will get the wrong idea and think I'm sitting at the library, wearing a potato sack.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

How's the boat shopping? It's a nice weekend for it, hopefully that doesn't bring out too much competition for you.

Edit: just saw this on CL:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/3699281432.html

Those are really fun boats to sail. It could be a major project, or it could be awesome. They normally sell for more like $15-17k (assuming the engine isn't a big project).


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## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

There another Yankee 30 that does well in the Monday night races out of Shilshole. It's kind of on the heavy side for racing, but does well with its rating. $4k is a really good deal if there is nothing major wrong with it.


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## brianhess (Aug 20, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> I'm a little familiar. I went kayak camping for a month a couple summers ago, so I had to learn the tide charts and weather.
> 
> I also learned to sail in Hawai'i and have been out in 50 knots and 12 foot seas. Not regularly, but I have.
> 
> ...


Never underestimate the power of the convergence zone that is known as the Pacific Northwest. Take if from a sailor that was in 40 seas off the coast of Oregon on a Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier trying to do sea trials, only to have the forward port side sponson cracked not once, but TWICE in two months in two storms!

Lots of shipyard workers and welders got overtime holiday pay at the Navy's expense.

And, in my own small sailboats I have experienced six foot waves in. . . . are your ready. . . . . Hood Canal! Small craft advisory in Puget Sound means what is says. . . .

But if you seasoned, you can hold your cookies!

Fare winds and Following Seas!

Brian


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks, if it's a small craft advisory, hopefully I won't be out, and I wish someone could erase Oregon from the map, so people could sail from Seattle to San Francisco.

That Yankee. I tried to get her to call me or give a phone number but she didn't respond and instead today is having an open house at 3-4 today. I'm not sure how god of an idea that is, to have what like 5-6 people come poke around and feel pressured into buying it?

That's not a classy way to sell a boat if you asked me, and like the post said, the engine probably won't start, and with a herd of bargain hunters how will I know if it's the battery or the entire thing is blown?


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## brianhess (Aug 20, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> Thanks, if it's a small craft advisory, hopefully I won't be out, and I wish someone could erase Oregon from the map, so people could sail from Seattle to San Francisco.
> 
> That Yankee. I tried to get her to call me or give a phone number but she didn't respond and instead today is having an open house at 3-4 today. I'm not sure how god of an idea that is, to have what like 5-6 people come poke around and feel pressured into buying it?
> 
> That's not a classy way to sell a boat if you asked me, and like the post said, the engine probably won't start, and with a herd of bargain hunters how will I know if it's the battery or the entire thing is blown?


I tried finding that ad on Craigslist but found one in Gig harbor that was not $4k but much more, mor like 20K+

Did you have a link to the ad? I'm curious to see what she said if it is only $4K! Good luck! I hope you find your forever boat! LOL. . . but if you decide to sail here past Oregon, you might consider waiting until the end of May. The weather is much more agreeable then. Anytime between now and then is going to be a crap shoot.

Brian


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

1974 Yankee 30 Sailboat for Sale- Open House Sunday!

sounds like a weird story, but it could be a great deal.

I'm not sailing from Oregon, I don't even live in Oregon, I was just visiting family I hadn't seen in two years.

I'm interested in this, but the pictures are tiny.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/3692163335.html

He said on the phone it:
needs running rigging redone
needs woodwork

Has:
15hp single yanmar, raw water cooled, rebuilt late nineties
Alcohol stove, battery tender, no fridge, new tiller, lead keel, good sails, roller furling

Some elctrolysis on skeg, now many zincs


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Yeah, those Sun 27 photos are nearly useless. If you were keeping the boat long term then I'd avoid raw water diesel engines, but if you think it'll still be strong at the end of the summer then it's less of a concern. What's the status on bottom paint?

If the Yankee is no longer listed by the end of the day then it probably turned into a bidding war. If it is then it's probably a mess. Either way it doesn't sound like it'll be your boat. They are really fun boats to sail. Heavy, but with a big rig that balances out that weight.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

For $4K you could do much worse than the Sun 27 barring unmentioned fatal issues. They are a decent sailing boat with a fair bit of space (quite a bit 'more boat' than a Catalina 27, for example). They have a reasonably good rep, were built by Spencer in Richmond BC, and IIRC it was a bit of a Monk/Perry collaboration.

I believe it has a molded keel/encapsulated lead ballast similar to the Ranger 29. Despite the poor pics it's worth a look... get them to email the actual pics to you, not just thumbnails.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

The sun has one year old bottom. They don't know how to resize the pictures, I'm going to look at it in person.


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

The Yankee 30 is still on CR, not that it means a whole lot. Of all the boats in your post so far it is by far the best if in sailable condition. I have a similar boat, they are very solid and safe. The basic boat is good enough that it might be worth a look despite the goofy situation. The motor not starting is a worry, but universals are good (mine has one) and it might be a simple problem with fuel or electrical issues. I have no personal knowledge of this boat. You can research both the Tartan 30 and S&S 30 to learn more aobut these boats.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

There a bunch of Yankee 30s on CL right now (unusual for a not that common boat), but the $4000 one is gone.

northoceanbeach: Any updates? You've probably looked at a bunch of these now, and might even be sailing on one.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I am unloading my car from the parkkng lot in Port Townsend onto the Ranger 23. Everybody was right. It was owned by someone born up here and they have been sailing their whole life. It looks better than the pictures.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Awesome! This is a great weekend to become a sailboat owner up here, the weather is perfect (sunny, warm, and nice wind). Have a great trip!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thank you so much for the help, and pointing out things. I am going to go practice in the bay. It's sunny, 60, and 10 mph


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice. I just got back from a Kingston. It was blowing about 14 knots on the sound.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Awesome. It was calmer here. Maybe like 5-10. Any recommendations for a good first overnighter or weekend trip this week? Somewhere to anchor? It looks like this side of Whitney is a continuous bluff. I was thinking mats mats for an overnight. I need to practice anchoring. I've never really done that. I've never slept on a boat away from a dock. 

I have two Danforth anchors. One bigger on a roller on the front and a smaller one in a bucket under the cockpit. I have no dingy. That's too bad.


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## jeffzee (May 30, 2007)

where are you sailing out of right now?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

He is in Port Townsend. I'd suggest going south to Port Ludlow or Port Gamble, both are very close and have good anchoring conditions. You can save some time by motoring through the canal at the south end of Port Townsend Bay.

What is your anchor rode?

Anchoring is fun and you can just go out for a day sail and practice at lunch time too.

There is a big swap meet at Fisheries Supply in Seattle on April 13th. You have to get there extremely early (the sale starts around 5am and is all but done by 10am), but there are usually a number of dinghies and they are usually quite a bit cheaper than what I see them listed for on Craigslist. It also gives you a chance to check out many dinghies at once. Given normal nightly moorage rates around here a used dinghy will pay for itself fairly quickly.

I'd also recommend walking around the big marina at Port Townsend and looking at dinghy racks (if they have them installed per slip). In Shilshole (Seattle) it's easy to tell who might have dinghies for sale, they normally have them piled up on their dinghy rack. Since you'll likely be towing (and rowing) it all of the time I'd recommend looking for a small rigid one. They tow better than inflatables (with the major downside that they can swamp more easily) and row much better than an inflatable.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

WItha smaller boat, inexperience, I would go to Hadlock of ludlow frankly. Ludlow would be better than the 20+ south to Port madison! Ludlow has good anchoring, protected etc. probably a 3-6hr trip depending upon if sailing vs motoring, wind speed for sailing etc. 

WM and a few others also have pure rowing inflatables for $2-400, that would probably be best for a smaller boat vs pulling/towing an 8' wood, or blown up motor style inflatable. get one of the bigger foot pumps, should have the boat blown up in less than 5 maybe 10 min. over the side, and in towards shore you go. 

At ludlow, since you pay for your slip for the weekend, andit is reserved in yourname per say, you could use the slip, go out and practice anchoring, come back in and tie up, use the shore facilities, until you get a dinghy too. 

I've alsonot had a lot of luck locally with danforths. a small plow style ifyou will, like the lewmar 5-7.5kg bruce knockoff with 10-20' of chain would allow me to sleep in your boat overnight better. As this style will reset better than a danforth of the tide changes etc. THere is a 9 lb fastset plow style at WM also. Not sure if PT has one is stock at the moment, but they get weekly replenishments, so you could get one at some point in time if wanting to work out of a local, walk to store vs driving into seattle etc.

Marty


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

You might also check out longship marine in Port ludlow, they have new and used stuff on consignment. They also get weekly deliverys from fisheries and wm's wholesale sidel so if staying in PT, fulltime, going this route might be better than a drive into seattle also. Not sure if there is a consignment place in PT or not. 

The fuel dock fellow at PT, also has accounts at Fisheries, may have one at WM/port supply (wholesale side of WM0, he too could order and get something up there from one or the other also. Again, if you do not want to make the trip to seattle etc. "The Chandlery at Winslow Wharf" also an independent, gets weekly drops from Fisheries and WM. 

There is also 2nd wind in the freemont area of seattle, for used stuff too. There is also a place in Everett, but seattle for PT would be easier to get to, if port ludlow place does not have something. 

Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

You can check the Second Wave stock at secondwave.cc. They do negotiate if pricing seems high and they have a lot of stock, I recently got a Fortress FX-18 (which I'm using as my secondary anchor) price knocked down $25 just by asking.

There is also a used boat supply place in Poulsbo, another good place to try anchoring and a nice little town. It's much smaller than Second Wave, but still pretty nice.

You are correct that there isn't much along the Whidbey side. Sail down it and you'll see why. It is mostly cliffs right into the water.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Sounds good. I'd like to I to second wave just to take a look. 

So the best sailing stores are west marines, second wave in Seattle, and a place in Poulsbo. Any others in Seattle?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

No, the best sailing store in this area is Fisheries Supply.

Second Wave and the store in Pouslbo have used stuff and are worth checking out. There is also a used store in Port Townsend (near Boathaven), but it's not very good.

I find little reason to go to West Marine, Fisheries has a much better selection and better prices. Open a new account and you get preferential pricing that will probably last you through the summer. Almost all local club members also get discounted pricing. The discounted prices are cheaper than almost anything you can find online (with the exception of electronics, their electronics prices are steep for some reason).


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

You do not HAVE to come to seattle to find a marine store. You do not even have to leave PT! A catalog/website from either fisheries or wm, a trip to see Aaron at Longship marine in poulsbo, and you have what ever part item you need getting to poulsbo! Same with the WM in PT, you can order out of that catalong, and it can come to you weekly on the warehouse truck. as long as you get the order in two days before. You can find the date out by going in there and asking. Fisheries delivers to PT also, I know the gas dock owner can order from them, not sure who else in PT can either. You do not HAVE to come to seattle and spend upwards of $30-40 in fuel and another $25-30 in ferry fares!

Some stuff it is nice to hand feel, others you just need to order the best way to get it to you. So popping into the PT WM could get you the hands on feel....order from them per say....or spend for me any how, 5-6 gals of diesel one way, $25 one way due to truck length on the ferry.......WM's prices or a trip to Longship at worst in Pouslbo become pretty cheap to order and not get the BEST price. 

Lenore who is the mgr at WM in PT will take good care of you. Do not remember the fuel docks persons name off the top of my head. Aaron at Longship will also take care of you. He has about 400 people that have stuff at his shop on consignment. He gets once to twice weekly deliveries from both fisheries and WM's wholesale side. 

Second wave you can also look online to see some of what they have. then decide if it is worth having shipped fedex, or going and getting. 


If you get to Everett, there is another store "harbor marine"?!?!?! on the north end of the marina that is pretty large, and Popeye's has a mixture of new and used stuff also. Anacortes also has a mixture of marine places. 
Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Completely true Marty. It sounded like he was heading here anyway for social purposes (perhaps by sailboat, which is kind of the point).


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

IF he is coming to seattle, true a mute point. BUT< to get to fisheries by boat, one will need a taxi or equal, WM shilshoal one can walk...but why come to seattle to go there, might as well use the PT store. I supposed as I am writing this, one can take the locks, anchor off of the park, then walk thru it to fisheries......still a lot of work when one can order locally in PT and have delivered a few days a week as part of that companies normal delivery van routes thruout the sound. Or the same with WM's PS supply van to places like longship in poulsbo etc. 

If driving down here. that is a different story, but it still will take a day, a ben or two just for fuel and ferry cost etc...........

It is worth and fun to take trips to places like fisheries, harbor marin in everett etc. It is generally speaking, not worth a trip to save a few bucks per say. Thelocal marine supply be it a WM or individual store can be the cheaper way! better to spend bucks local sometimes. If the OP is out of work, talk to the mgr at the PT WM, get a part time jobthere, one gets 10-50% off retail as part of employee discount.....no need to travel!

Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Shilshole has (or had, call to double check) a shuttle to Ballard. From there you can take the 40 bus right to Fisheries Supply. Public transit in Seattle is pretty easy and inexpensive.

You can't anchor off of Gasworks park, it is illegal to anchor in Lake Union without a permit unless it is between noon and 8am on July 4th and 5th. There might be guest moorage at one of the marinas along there.

If coming into town for a visit I think I'd suggest Bell Harbor Marina (downtown) over Shilshole, there is a lot more to walk to (but you'd have to bus to marine supply stores). Shilshole has good access if you have a folding bike onboard, but not much to walk to.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I have my entire v berth taken up with a road bike so I can get anywhere! Anywhere they let me bring it inside that is...

The ferry is 25-30$? I thought like five. I figured people took their car on it round trip to work everyday. I would drive to Tacoma then up. 

Yeah, definitely not to save a few bucks. But once I leave PT I'm going north. I would like to see Seattle.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

The ferry is $13 each way for a normal car. It is $9 for a bike, and bikes only pay in one direction. Fuel costs depend on your car, but it is about 120 miles round trip of driving to get from PT back to a Seattle-bound ferry, so on my gas-guzzling Subaru car that is about $25 round trip in fuel costs.

PT to Shilshole is one reasonable length day of sailing. It's a pretty good loop to go one way through Admiralty Inlet, and another through Saratoga Passage and out through Deception Pass (that puts you closer to the San Juans then to PT). There are some nice islands to anchor out by or camp at near Deception Pass, check out Hope Island and Skagit Island.

You need to time the currents when coming down Admiralty Inlet. It's pretty gentle through Saratoga Passage. Do Saratoga Passage soon and you'll probably see gray whales.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

The ferry is $25 one way if like my crewcab dually pickup that is justover 22'long, otherwise, yes about $13 one way for a car/vehicle under 22'. Or the van I drive is over 7'6", 3" over 22' so that is a triple whammy at upwards of $40 depending upon who is in the pay shack. Then driving my dumptruck with equipment trailer that is in the 50+ foot range, about $70 or so one way! I get all of 15-18 mpg in my ,pickup, van is 20-22, so 240 miles of driving is 10-15 gals, or $40-70 depending upon how much diesel is that day..........Wifes suv is $13-15 ferry fee depending upon summer vs winter fare cost. Going around tacome will net you more cost yet by about double vs taking a ferry. From winslow on bainbridge, it is 110 miles to lk union, vs 4 driving plus 9 miles on teh ferry. including the ferry fare. fuel netting you at 20 mpg will cost you more than the ferry fare etc, along with 2.5 hrs of driving vs maybe 1 overall on the ferry etc. Driving in general, does not pay to go around. Then east bound on the hwy 16 bridge, ie tecoma narrows, you have a $5 or so bridge fee, you donot pay west bound. Foot traffic onthe ferry is free east bound, pay west bound, including passengers in the car are extra west. kingston-edmonds might be the better run, but doing the bike part would be tougher than winslow if you wanted to do it that way. 

Not worth the trip for some things, others yes. A road bike will get you somewhere easy. For that purpose, shilshoal would be a cake walk. take the old train trail ie burk-gilman from shilshoal, its all level to the fisheries store! 5'ish miles or so. 

No right or wrong on how to get somewhere per say.......still not a simple lets just run into seattle from PT! Even from my house in edmonds,going to in-laws in PAngelas is simple, but still not simple! I'm 10 min from that terminal! Bremerton is easier to get to from a ferry than driving around.........When I did a bunch of workon bainbridge, I took the ferry at $25 twice daily, had to build it into the job cost, same with a vashion one, and one up in the SJ's......now that was a PITA, including barges to get tothe actual island as it did not have ferry service!

Marty


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