# Survey Complete: Rival 34



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Hi, all.

The survey was done on the boat we have the accepted offer on today. It's a 1973 Rival 34 called Southern Rival. It was a good day.

What's interesting about this boat is the process that went into finding her. In many cases, it seems like there's one sailor in the family who is passionate about sailing, and the boat is either that person's choice or a compromise with a spouse.

In our family, the interest and passion about sailing is about equal between my wife and I, yet we also have eight and ten year olds with their own ideas about sailing and cruising, so their opinions are important as well. As a result, we had to find a boat that would be exciting and engaging for everyone in the family-- a four-way success.

We looked at newer boats, older boats, big boats and small boats. This boat is about 15 years older than I thought we'd seriously consider, but the maintenance and upkeep is probably the best of what we've seen. Thus, the "age" question took a second seat to systems and maintenance.

Secondly, we had to think long and hard about size. We wanted a boat to cruise on across the channel, but not so big that the mooring and maintenance costs would destroy the cruising kitty. We wanted a safe, sea worthy boat, even if that meant it was medium to heavy displacement (and the chop is pretty common and considerable around here). We didn't need a "round the world for four" boat yet, and maintaining one for years in advance of crossing oceans didn't make sense. We also wanted a boat that was simple enough to easy leave the dock for a day sail.

Finally, it also didn't make sense (for some weird, hard-to-explain reasons) to just charter boats. (Maybe we really need a boat to go spend weekends on a couple of times a month, even if the weather prevents leaving the slip).

Anyway, the sea trial is next weekend. Here's a photo gallery of from today's survey:

http://www.photos.sailingvoyage.com/v/album_021/

And here's some photos from that gallery:




























Two points of clarification:

1) Her name comes from her shipyard (Southern Marine in Southampton, England) and her model range (Rival).

2) The decks are gray, as they were originally, because she was designed as a long-range ocean cruiser. The decks are gray to reduce glare on tropical seas. More than a few Rivals have circumnavigated and done long-range cruising.

Thanks, and I'll let you know how the sea trial goes, if the weather permits, next weekend.


----------



## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Excellent!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Nice looking boat! Congrats and best of luck with her.


----------



## Perithead (Nov 16, 2007)

Good, glad you got that over with Jim. 

What did the surveyor say about the boat? Did he like it? Any problem areas on the boat? Give us some details. Was the surveyor nice? Explain everything he did to you?

When I has my survey done last week, we did the seatrial and survey the same day at the same time. I thought this is how it was done. Is the surveyor going to join in on the sea trial also?

I didnt get to go to my boat this weekend because all of the paperwork isnt done with our boat. We sent the check Wednesday but the story I got of why I couldnt use the boat this weekend is......... Well, they realy didnt give me a good reason! It is so agrivating! 

Glad you had your survey though and I hope you get on your boat soon if you do decide to buy!


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Perithead said:


> When I has my survey done last week, we did the seatrial and survey the same day at the same time. I thought this is how it was done. Is the surveyor going to join in on the sea trial also?


Hi,

I'll post more details about the survey once the seatrial and documentation of the boat is reviewed. The surveyor won't be joining me on the sea trial, because we carried out the engine tests today.

One thing I will note that was interesting. The surveyor used a "roller" today on the fiberglass instead of tapping it with a hammer:










The sound the roller made directly showed where the ballast was and was not in the keel, for example. It could also reveal where there were voids and repairs, and the bow and leading edge of the keel presented a nice, uniform tone from the roller.

I thought this was cool, because it was easier for me to interpret than the tapping done by my last surveyor on my last boat. Also, he claimed that a local top GRP boat designer and others don't like the "tapping with the hammer" routine because it can affect the glass fibers in the fiberglass itself. I don't know if I buy this, but it would be ironic if tapping your entire hull and topsides could actually reduce its strength and longevity.

I don't have many interior pictures from today, but I have a photo gallery from the first visit to the boat that does:

http://www.photos.sailingvoyage.com/v/album_018/

Here's an interior pic:










I hope you get aboard your Watkins 29 soon. I am expecting photos and a report from your first sails.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Very pretty lines. The best of luck wih her.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Congratulations.. she looks like a nice boat... 

As for the tapping, unless your surveyor is tapping a hell of a lot harder than most of the ones I know are, the tapping shouldn't have any affect on the life of the GRP. He shouldn't be tapping hard enough to damage the laminate.


----------



## bogdog (Sep 8, 2007)

Wow
What a salty looking boat! Very nice. Looks like lots of wood down below too. Enjoy. DS


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

JimH,

Nice boat! Sure brings back memories for me. The family resemblance -- right down to the liferaft and grey decks -- with the Rival 38 I cruised aboard is almost uncanny. They were built for the rough North Sea and the Channel, and if she behaves anything like her older sister, I can attest that she won't let you down when things get snotty. I look forward to hearing some trip reports as you get your sea legs with her. 

Congratulations!


----------



## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

*That's great!*

I've been looking at a Rival 34. Sleeping on it for awhile. Listed on Yachtworld for $44,000. One thing that has caused me hesitation is that the hull has some blisters. Have you noticed this on your boat? It seemed like a nice boat the other day when I went aboard, I hope you'll be happy.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

She looks very seaworthy and has a fine entry. Is that a Samson post I see? One thing about British boats: they don't screw around with the deck fittings. They know the value of a good anchor.

I think it'll be tight quarters with two kids and two adults aboard (I got the sense you were going to live aboard), but it's been successfully done before.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

*Tapping...*

I used to use my head, but that put big dents in the hull.

I use a 8oz phenolic (I can charge more if I call it that, rather than plastic ) hammer. If the finish is painted, I pull a sock over it, or use an old smooth handled screwdrive with a plastic handle. I've had no damage to any hull, don't know anyone that has. I'd like to try that roller thingy though.


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Very nice shear.


----------



## starboardyacht (Sep 30, 2007)

A boat ahead of its time for sure, i was looking at a Reviel 31/32 on ebay the 34 is a much better boat. I have light grey decks on my Abbott 36, takes a little getting used to but now i really like them, especially on bright days without sunglasses. They also have a great owners site. Good luck, enjoy, shes a keeper....
p.s. i hope you keep the name, it really fits the boat well.... cheers


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Nice to finally see some pictures of your pretty new lady Jim!! May she bring you all much joy.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

That's a fine looking boat.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> The family resemblance -- right down to the liferaft and grey decks -- with the Rival 38 I cruised aboard is almost uncanny. They were built for the rough North Sea and the Channel, and if she behaves anything like her older sister, I can attest that she won't let you down when things get snotty. I look forward to hearing some trip reports as you get your sea legs with her.


Thanks to everyone for the kind words.

I am looking forward to the sea trial. We spoke with a couple of former Rival 34 owners, and their praise of the boat in terms of her sailing ability and handling was really encouraging. Both moved on to other boats in search of more space below, but then had boats that "bounced" in the chop to some degree because of their hull designs.

The skeg-hung rudder and longer fin, however, doesn't make this boat a dream to maneuver in tight places, but I think we'll have plenty of time and techniques to get her around. Once she's out and the wind picks up, she should be in her element.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

snider said:


> I've been looking at a Rival 34. Sleeping on it for awhile. Listed on Yachtworld for $44,000. One thing that has caused me hesitation is that the hull has some blisters. Have you noticed this on your boat? It seemed like a nice boat the other day when I went aboard, I hope you'll be happy.


We looked at four Rivals, and considered several others that we didn't have time to visit (two 38cs, 36s, etc.). One Rival 32 hull looked fine in terms of blisters, and was never epoxy treated. Another Rival 32 looked fine, and had a preventative epoxy treatment. The 34 we had surveyed has had a full epoxy treatment, and then the epoxy/copper antifouling, and no signs of blisters.

So, blistering is a possibility. Also, some had been "let go" and the interiors were pretty rough. If you look at the owners site (http://www.rivalowners.org.uk), you'll see that the Rivals with the nicest interiors have had the wood "lightened," since the original wood finish was pretty dark and became darker with age.

However, we still considered those boats, because the "bones" and the design of the boats were so appealing. Most have had replaced engines, rigging, sails and other key systems over time, even if the interiors could be improved.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Is that a Samson post I see? One thing about British boats: they don't screw around with the deck fittings. They know the value of a good anchor.
> 
> I think it'll be tight quarters with two kids and two adults aboard (I got the sense you were going to live aboard), but it's been successfully done before.


The Sampson post is pretty impressive, as is the "new and never used" Lofrans Royal manual double acting windlass. In the bow area, the surveyor found several positive clues about the boat: the stainless shackles on the flat jacklines were wired closed. The CQR anchor in it's molded/shaped compartment had a stainless coupler instead of a galvanized shackle connecting it to the 60 meters of chain, which went down a hawspipe into a chain locker lower on the boat. (There's even a second hawspipe and chain and bow roller for a second anchor.) The dog to hold down the anchor locker was both flat and secure, meaning waves over the bow shouldn't flip the door open. Additionally, there were almost no stress cracks around the gear or raised toe rail in the area.

As for "living aboard," I think the max we would ever do is six to eight weeks, and that would be with plenty of time on the hook, etc. This isn't a long-range cruising boat for four (but it could be for two). Two other Rival 34s on the market had long-range cruising histories: one had circumnavigated, and the other had done three trips across the Atlantic and back.

Anyway, the kids and wife really liked this boat and committed to it, knowing we could have had a lot more interior space with a Westerly or Moody or Dehler, etc. Maybe that was because the Rivals were so ruggedly designed, or simply that we found them more aesthetically pleasing. I think someone told us that we should never buy a boat we didn't think was beautiful.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

cardiacpaul said:


> I'd like to try that roller thingy though.


If you look for one, note that the spines on the aluminum roller head were horizontal to the roller axis, and not at right angles to the roller axis. I think both types are sold for finishing GRP and getting air bubbles out. I thought it was great how the change in tone was so apparent and clear as he rolled over different areas.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Be careful using stainless shackles on ground tackle systems. If you're anchored out for any extended period of time, they can go bad fairly quickly due to oxygen deprivation... which will happen if they're buried in the mud on the bottom. They also can cause galvanic corrosion issues if used with galvanized chain and anchors. IMHO, you'd be much better off with a proper galvanized steel shackle.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Be careful using stainless shackles on ground tackle systems. If you're anchored out for any extended period of time, they can go bad fairly quickly due to oxygen deprivation... which will happen if they're buried in the mud on the bottom. They also can cause galvanic corrosion issues if used with galvanized chain and anchors. IMHO, you'd be much better off with a proper galvanized steel shackle.


Interesting points. I believe the one on the boat is like this:

http://proboat.co.uk/item.asp?dep=1&prod_id=443&cat_id=24

Supposedly, the advantages are less snagging in the bow rollers and a full swivel so that the rode does twist up as easily. The corrosion issues (lack of oxygen and galvanic) are ones to consider.

We'll mostly be gunkholing and not leaving it in the mud for long periods, but I'd still keep an eye on how it holds up. I wonder if others have used them?

FYI, here's an excellent thread about stainless swivel anchor connectors at ybw.com:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1355312/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

One of the posters wrote an article about them for Yachting Monthly in the UK. Apparently, there are a few that are a worthy design (most noteworthy are the KONG models). The AISI 316 Stainless is not supposed to react with galvanic metals, but it is noted that such swivels are not to be used for long term anchoring that is going to lead to a no-O2 situation.

So, I can check and see if the one on the boat we're considering is a 316 model of the recommended design, or not. Also, we can always swap it out for long-term anchoring in the future.


----------



## billangiep (Dec 10, 2003)

She's a sweetie Jim but have to agree with the dog on using stainless below the water line...

Examples below


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Jim H said:


> Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
> 
> I am looking forward to the sea trial. We spoke with a couple of former Rival 34 owners, and their praise of the boat in terms of her sailing ability and handling was really encouraging. Both moved on to other boats in search of more space below, but then had boats that "bounced" in the chop to some degree because of their hull designs.
> 
> The skeg-hung rudder and longer fin, however, doesn't make this boat a dream to maneuver in tight places, but I think we'll have plenty of time and techniques to get her around. Once she's out and the wind picks up, she should be in her element.


If I may make a suggestion, have the sea trial in appalling weather, or at least, "challenging conditions". You will learn how easy it is to reef down, how powerful the engine is fighting current and/or tide, the most forgiving points of sail, the "seakindliness" or motion in significant waves, and how to heave to if necessary (most boats differ in this respect). Your daughters are old enough to brace themselves below, or you can have them on deck in harnesses and tethers to get the "feel" of a relatively heavy 34 footer in a seaway.

My sea trial was in 10 knots and a flat sea. All I learned was that I could make 4 knots with all sail set on a reach. I had thought 3 knots more likely. It took sustained 30 knots to show me that I should probably lower my water tanks, and that I needed different reef points if I wanted to work to weather more effectively.

My point is that, while not precisely deceptive, any boat will look and feel nice on a pleasant day, but the crappy, gusty, adverse days show "character", and shouldn't be too hard to locate in the English Channel in January/February 

Good luck and wear your wellies!


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Valiente said:


> If I may make a suggestion, have the sea trial in appalling weather, or at least, "challenging conditions".


It's a good idea, but consider this weather sample from a couple of weeks ago, mid-afternoon at Brighton on January 10th:

Date Time Knots Direction

10-01-2008 14:59	39.1	S
10-01-2008 14:54	35.7	SSW
10-01-2008 14:49	66.1	SSW
10-01-2008 14:44	34.8	S
10-01-2008 14:39	47.0	SSE
10-01-2008 14:34	60.0	S
10-01-2008 14:29	44.3	S
10-01-2008 14:24	46.1	S
10-01-2008 14:19	40.0	SSE
10-01-2008 14:14	54.8	S
10-01-2008 14:09	55.7	SSW
10-01-2008 14:04	33.0	SSW

Does 66 knots of wind sound like enough? I think that's gusts to F11. 

Even yesterday during the survey there were gusts to 38 knots (F7), and we saw only two sailboats out. One had a scrap of headsail up, and the other had only the main up with three reefs in. We watched short, sharp swells roll in. (Unlike the Solent, where is it easier to winter sail behind the Isle of Wight, the sailing at Brighton is straight into the channel and its 60 plus miles of fetch.)

The tough part is that the winter wind is from the south, making all of southern England a lee shore, and the entrance to the marina is, of course, exposed to the SW, meaning that you need experience to navigate a narrow channel and sharp starboard turn to get behind the breakwater.

So, having too little wind shouldn't be a problem, and if it's gusting high I might respect the owner's opinion as to whether to go or not. Kids will likely stay ashore so my full concentration is on how the owner runs the boat-- they'll be sailing with us soon enough.

It's fun to buy sailboats in winter.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

*Test Sail*

We had a great test sail on the Rival 34 today. It was bright and sunny, with 10-12 knots of wind E by NE. There were about 3-4 foot swells exiting the marina, but these calmed down as we sailed. We reached around 5.8 to 6.0 knots occasionally, and the boat handled the conditions with ease.

The only tricky part was the first 4 minutes of the trip. To exit the slip, the plan was to reverse with the stern going to port. Since the prop walk is to starboard, I was warned this was sometimes tricky. By the time the boat was half-way out of the slip, it was at 45 degrees to starboard. Then the plan was to back it up the fairway, but she kept turning to startboard, so the owner completed a 270 degree reverse turn to starboard to line her up for the exit up the fairway.

(Okay, so handling in marinas might be a slight challenge at times... )

Overall, we think she's a keeper. I'll post the equipment list once the paperwork is finished this week. We're thinking of keeping her at Brighton until the end of March, and then moving her to Gosport on the Solent, in part so we have less swell for the kids when we sail.

Photo Gallery: http://www.photos.sailingvoyage.com/v/album_022/


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

SO when do you sail her back to portland for us cascadians to see?

marty


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey Congrats Jim...sounds like you are an owner! Good luck with her!!


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Well done, another satisfied boat owner.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> SO when do you sail her back to portland for us cascadians to see?


Marty, I was wondering how many Cascadians were here!

Anyways, here's one plan I dreamt up:

2-3 Years: Sailing the South Coast of England and across the channel (Netherlands, France, Spain, Channel Islands) starting this weekend.

3-4 Years: Sail the Med, and keep the boat down there while working up here.

2 Years: Back to UK, rebuild and prep for long trip (or change boats?).

3 Years: Across the Atlantic to the Carribean, East Coast of US.

4 Years: Through Panama Canal to Galapagos and South Sea, New Zealand, Australia

2 Years: Hawaii, then to Alaska, down the Inside Passage.

Remaining years: Gunkholing in San Juans, dropping down to the Columbia to visit family, being a prodigal Cascadian.

Just one of many ideas-- who knows which boat, timeline, etc.

I'll toss an email on the Cascadia list about the boat.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

*Inventory List*



camaraderie said:


> Hey Congrats Jim...sounds like you are an owner! Good luck with her!!


Thanks! We just heard that the funds have been received and the bill of sale is complete, and we started our insurance on her today. On Thursday or Friday, we plan to go down and spend the weekend aboard (reading manuals and maybe doing a day sail if the weather permits).

As promised, here's the equipment list. I was impressed by the work done by the last two owners:

*SOUTHERN RIVAL
Rival 34
1973
Built by Southern Boat Building
Designed by Peter Brett
GRP long fin keel*​
Comment

Southern Rival was hull number 11 of these renowned cruising boats. Examples have sailed all the oceans and have a deserved reputation for safety and excellent sea keeping qualities. She is comfortable in a seaway and inspires great confidence.

New Pre-purchase Survey in September 2007 and all recommendations carried out by Tate & Crewe Ltd. at Eastbourne.

Specification

LOA 34 ft 10.38m	
LWL 24ft 10in	7.64m
Beam 9ft 8in 2.95m
Draft 4ft 8in 1.42m
Displacement 11,900lbs
Displacement/Length ratio 340 (heavy displacement cruiser)

Rig Sloop

Engine Volvo Penta MD2030 29 hp new 2000 approx. 350 hours
Gearbox
Propeller 3 blade with rope cutter new 2006
Cruising speed	6 kts

Fuel 70 litres
Water 120 litres

Berths 6: 2 forward, double + sea cot in saloon, quarter berth. 
Cabins 2 cabins
Heads 1

Electrical

The battery electrics and 12 volt system were rewired 2005
2 x 12 volt plugs new 2005
1 x 12 volt starter battery installed new 2005
2 x 12 volt domestic batteries, 1 new 2005
Engine alternator new 2006
Shore power line and battery charger new 2002
240 volt plugs in main cabin new 2005

Engine

Full service 2007, new engine mounting, seacock bend and shaft seal. New alternator and mounting bracket, impellor etc. 2006, Spares kit.

Rig

Sloop rig
Kemp aluminium mast 
Selden Boom, slab reefing gear and Lewmar ST reefing winch all new 2007
Standing rigging all new 2006
Some running rigging replaced 2006
Halyard winches 2 x Lewmar ST 14s new 2005, serviced 2007
Main sail part battened, three reefs, new 2000 approx, washed and serviced. 
Cruising genoa new 2000 approx, washed and serviced.
No. 2 genoa top of the range North Sails new 2006
Spinnaker and sock
Storm jib new 2006 unused
Try sail unused
Sail cover new 2005
Spare Main, Cruising and Number 2 genoa
Furlex foresail reefing

Deck

2 x Lewmar 40 Genoa winches 
1 x Lewmar ST mast reefing winch new 2006
Lofrans Royal manual double acting windlass new 2007
Samson post
Guard rails new 2005
Jackstays new 2005
All external teak stripped and oiled 2006, cleaned December 2007
Main cabin deck hatch new 2006
Fore cabin hatch - new dogs fitted December 2007
Non slip gel coat pattern 
Stainless steel stanchions, push-pit and pull-pit
Spray hood new 2006 
Dodgers new 2006
Cockpit cover
Fenders, warps, lines etc. many new 2006
International Navigation Lights, Steaming Light, Deck Light etc.

Hull

New Survey September 2007, all recommendations carried out including gelcoat removal and re-epoxied plus 10 year epoxy based Coppercoat anti fouling over the top giving double osmosis protection, all under supervision of the surveyor.

Ground tackle

35lb CQR main, 60 metres chain
Fortress kedge, 50 metres braided anchor line

Navigation

Navman VHF/DSC new 2005 and new antenna 2005
Garmin 120 GPS
Navtex new 2005
Raymarine SL70 Radar
Raymarine ST 4000 autopilot with instrument new 2006
Raymarine wind, depth, log all new 2006 and interfaced where applicable
Monitor wind vane self steering with new brackets fitted 2006
Sestral Moore Steering Compass and a hand held compass

Safety 
4 man valise liferaft serviced 2007
1 x lifebuoy and floating light new 2006
Set of flares new 2006
Tri-lens Radar reflector new 2005
Electric bilge pump new 2006, Float switch new 2007
Manual bilge pump new 2006
1 x automatic engine fire extinguisher new 2005
2 x cabin, 1 x cockpit fire extinguishers new 2005
Galley fire blanket
First Aid kit new 2005

Domestic

Complete new gas installation to standard 2005, re-certified 2007
Complete water system including tank, hoses and 2 electric pumps new 2006
Galley manual tap new 2006
Head electric tap new 2006
Gas cooker new 2005
Cold box
Head redecorated with: Jabsco toilet, hoses and sea-cocks all new 2005
Stereo radio cassette 
Range of cutlery, crockery, cooking utensils and glasses etc.
Carpet to cabins

Miscellaneous

2.3 metre rubber dinghy nearly new 
2.5 hp Mariner outboard


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Jim,
Thanks for an excellent dialogue on a well found boat. The link to Yachting World and an excellent thread was also highly appreciated. Please keep us updated on developing events as the Rival is less well known over here, which matter we look forward to your correcting.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Congratulations.  But we won't believe you until you post photos.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

*Maiden Sail*



sailingdog said:


> Congratulations.  But we won't believe you until you post photos.


Okay, here's some pics from our maiden sail today out of Brighton:










Heading out of Brighton Marina.










Son at helm.










Heading for France.










Daughter keeps a sharp lookout.










This is a long keel boat, so my son prepares for landing (no boat hook needed).










Washed down and ready for next time.

The complete gallery is at

http://www.photos.sailingvoyage.com/v/album_024/

It was a good first sail-- my daughter in particular liked it. Light winds (5-8 knots), but a good experience. Only real challenge was backing her out-- it's like trying to tame a wild horse. The only thing you can rely on is that she'll end up heading the exact opposite of where you plan to go...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Very nice


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Beautiful boat Jim, I am envious!


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Jim, well done. You have to love the older boats they new how to build them back then.


----------

