# Circumnavigate Catalina 30



## HermitScott

I started participating in forums 6 months ago. I bought my C30 a month or 2 after I started. I live in South Texas, I bought the boat to sail to the Bahamas. Not an original idea, I know. I have been working on the boat and reading the forums. It is universally agreed that a C30 is not a heavy weather boat, not an ocean passsage vessel. It's a good coastal cruiser and a great dock queen. WHY?
If one were to beef up the standing rigging, get a solid rudder stock, replace the ports with good off shore ports(or good shutters), make the hatch smaller, install some good cockpit drains, more water tanks, and run all lines to the cockpit. What about the C30 still makes it a poor choice for ocean passage? I would like to sail her across the gulf to Tampa, but if the boat flips over on 3' waves than I will take the ICW. Of course the boat will be outfitted for offshore cruising, ie. EPIRB, GPS, radar, solar, series drouge, all safety equipment, everything anyone else would load up on a passage on a 
30' boat. 
After my initial research I determined that the displacement of the boat was the key to seaworthiness, but there are plenty of lighter displacement boats on the seaworthy list. There are also fin keel spade rudder boats that circumnavigate(and don't say there are rowboats that circumnavigate, this isn't a row boat). So what is it about the Catalina 30 that makes it a turd in rough weather?


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## AjariBonten

Hey Scott, welcome aboard. I'll take a stab at a couple of possible reasons.

For one; the list of upgrades you suggest is not a small undertaking.

"beef up the standing rigging" Include all of the supporting structures for the rigging, chainplates, bulkheads, backing plates, etc.


"get a solid rudder stock", Likewise, it's not only the rudder and post, it's the underlying structure

"replace the ports with good off shore ports" do-able, but not a small expense

"make the hatch smaller", hmmmmm

"install some good cockpit drains" More structural than you might think, actualy

etc etc. 


Of course, this boat could get across oceans if the conditions were right all the way across; but that rarely happens. I think it is the constant stress of being in heavy-ish seas for extended periods that the boat is really not designed for.

I am sure that others will pipe-in with other worthy reasons; but I think that I've covered the basics. It's simply a matter of sturdiness, as well as design.

A 1970's VW Beetle is a great car, as is a Lamborghini; butI would not take either of them in the Cairo to Dakkar rally. One for the quality of construction, one for design reasons.


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## camaraderie

...and lets not forget hull flex. One of the great boats of all time...but not for crossing oceans.


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## TSOJOURNER

Well Scott, as a past Catalina 30 owner, vintage 1982, I had it outfitted to take on just about everything. My home port in those days was California's Channel Islands, which as I've found, prepared me for any type of weather and seas, I usually found myself in the thick of it.

Here's a couple observatiions. Early 30's were weak in the chain plates. Look inside and see if there are "knees", basically wood triangles where the chainplates attach to the hull. There was a problem with hull flexing and lifting, the "knees" were the solution. I believe that was pre 77.

Fuel carrying capacity. although we are sailors, the iron genoa is used more often than not on long passages, either for propulsion or to charge the batteries. The basic version only carried about 20 gals. Not much for making long passages. The two cylinder Universal 11 hp diesel is economical, the Atomic gasoline eats it up.

Round bottom. In heavy seas it pounds with teeth jarring force, and becomes a little squirilly in following seas. On the obverse, with weather on the bow, I've gone backwards.

Cargo capacity. For a short crossing, fine, for a month at sea, say mexico to new zealand, you'll end up eating your shoes. Of course dried, vacuum packed survival rations would be part of your on board provisions.

Fin keel, Spade rudder. Fast, manueverable, but those things play against you in heavy seas, and although sailing in heavy weather for a short time can be fun, it takes it's toll on the helmsman over an extended period and requires a lot of practice to master. I know, a lot of boats have this combination, but add in the round bottom and you have a hand full.

Ground tackle. The chain locker is rather small for the amount of rode needed for a lot of places you may want to visit. I had 200 ft of HT chain on a windless of mine along with another 200ft of nylon. I bored a hole in the chain locker and made a hausel pipe into the bilge. The windless was mounted in the chain locker.

On the upside, the standard main reefs well, and with a good roller furling on the jib, the boat can be balanced, and I always thought it sailed better reefed. All control lines were led to the cockpit, even main hoisting and reefing.

There's other considerations, water for example, but those things are common sense. Not to be discouraged, a dock partner bought a 30 outfitted it with minor improvements as mentioned above, and last I heard was in New Zealand. 

So, it's not that it can't be done, it's if you really want to do it.


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## xort

save the time, money & hassle and do it right from the start; buy an appropriate tool for the job.


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## Valiente

Ianhind has it. It can be done, but so can a trip across North America in an ultralight motorized hang glider. The question is "why?"

For the money you spent making a Catalina 30 "bluewater capable" (and I would first glass in that huge companionway to a little gasketted, lockable hatch), you could buy a Contessa 26 or maybe even a beat-up Westsail 32, both more ready for ocean crossings than the C30 could ever be.


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## HermitScott

Thank you Ian(half naked girl on the bow dude) lol I really like hearing from someone who owned a c30 for a good amount of time. Will you explain what you mean by "hausel pipe into the bilge". Was your anchor rode stored in the bilge under the table in the cabin? Do you have a site where you have public pictures? I would be very interested in seeing all that you did. 
xort- I understand that I should buy a passage making boat to make ocean passages, but really I just want to outfit what I have to handle weather incase I get in any thing unexpected in the gulf of mexico. The c30 fits what I am going to use it for better than anything else I know. Except your boat, if you want to trade.
Valiente- I do all the work myself. I have a fabrication shop also. So things don't cost me near as much as others. 
I bought this boat very cheap. $3500. After yard fees, rebuilding the Yanmar 12 horse, new prop cutlass and shaft and doing the bottom, I now have $6500 in her. Another boat isn't an option at this point anyway. myspace.com\sailboatspace That shows the pics of my progress and my superhot wife. She's a model, she just isn't striking a pose with a boat oar for nothing. lol
I posted this question in another forum and got a lot of good feedback from them as well. I was studying at a bookstore tonight. And as Ian says it's the constant jaring motion in rough seas that would be the biggest deal if I did upgrade everything mentioned. Other than being turned turtle, which apparently the c30 won't likely right herself because of the wide beam.


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## blt2ski

A C30 would not be my first choice of 30' boats to travel the oceans.......But I am sure one could get from Texas to Tampa Bay in one, with out flipping. Of course if you see a katrina or equal in the horizon, I am not sure I would want to be on Vals steel hulled boat either! 

I would echo the others tho, if you really want to do a circumnavigation, get a different boat. I pretty sure a C30 or two or three have circumnavigated, it is NOT a boats most would think about using tho! Not that I would want to sail my Jeanneau 30 around the world, I would choose it over a C30 for many reasons. But I would choose other 30's before this on too! 

marty


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## mccary

I sail a Catalina 27. Another guy I know of has circumnavigated in the boat! But first he did extensive refits. I can't believe that the Catalina line 27 or 30 was ever even considered as a possible world cruiser. The boat is light weight and makes a wonderful coastal cruiser (I sail The Chesapeake Bay). Why not look around and find a boat more suited to world cruising and trade up to that? You will be safer and have a better time.


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## sailortjk1

Scott,
First of all thanks for the link to your myspace page. LOL.
You seem like a very handy person and one that believes that they can take on any challenge and achieve the desired goal. I get this impression simply from reading your above posts and from looking at your myspace page.
This is a good thing, but it can also interfer with your ability to listen to the advise others have given. If you are determined to try, as you seem to be, I don't believe there is anything anybody is going to say or do that will influnce your decision. 
If you are going to try and make it work, just becareful, your life lays in the balance, and the lifes of all the crew members you take with you are also in your hands. And don't think for a minute that its not true. There are dozens of recent reports about sailors being rescued at sea. The ones that got rescued are the lucky ones.
I, myself, would not consider it even for a minute. But you are who you are.
Maybe, if I was in your shoes, I would contemplate a trip from Tx using the ICW to get up and around the Florida Panhandle and down to the Keys than over to the Islands. After doing that and enjoying myself for a couple of years, I would reasses my decision in the first place to circumnavigate.


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## sailhog

Hermit,
Your C30 will do great along the Texas coast. If you want to do a little off shore work, sail a rhumb line from Destin to Ft. Meyer or Marathon when a suitable weather window opens up. Once you lose sight of land and the sun sets for the first time, you'll be asking yourself questions like, "I wonder what would happen if 50 gallons of seawater came crashing through my giant companionway once every nine seconds?"


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## Valiente

blt2ski said:


> A C30 would not be my first choice of 30' boats to travel the oceans.......But I am sure one could get from Texas to Tampa Bay in one, with out flipping. Of course if you see a katrina or equal in the horizon, I am not sure I would want to be on Vals steel hulled boat either!


Hey, I wouldn't want to, either, despite the strong impression that with two watertight bulkheads, ocean-grade hatches and a number of high capacity pumps, I think my chances vastly better than a C30!

I suppose the key to this sort of proposal is to carry a lot of batteries and a wind gen to power SSB, radar and PC so you can download a vast amount of data to tell you where the weather is likely to be..._and then avoid it_. In order to do this, you might need a radar/solar panel arch over the cockpit. I would also redo the salon furniture to increase the stowage space, because a C30 is going to want batteries and spare diesel tankage low and in the center. Gut the V-berth, because you need stowage for supplies, water tanks and yet more fuel, spare sails, and a life raft. Guests? Forget it...it's drinks in the cockpit and goodnight.

I think, Cohiba, what we are getting at is that a C30 is fine as a fair-weather Caribbean cruiser due to the short passages, if you truly circumnavigate, you regularly face multi-week, 1,000 to even 3,000 NM passages with no "outs". A 30 footer of _any_ kind is very small to carry the fuel, water and food necessary for that sort of passage with any kind of margin of error, never mind an shallow-bilged, '80s coastal cruiser production boat.

Also, I know C30s can get squirrelly downwind after 22 knots due to innate functions of hull form, keel and rudder size...I've seen them broach to in Lake Ontario even with a crew of six working to avoid it. (They can and do surf downwind).

You could have a week of 35 knots...where are you going to put the windvane and the autopilot and the scrap of staysail to keep the C30 going safely down 25 foot wave faces when you two finally have to sleep? If you heave to (which I would wonder if a C30 can do in truly oceanic conditions), where are you going to keep the drogues, sea anchors and warps? When the typhoon brushes the gorgeous tropical lagoon that looks like it was made to show off your wife (who had better have a load of real muscles in that admittedly attractive frame..and so long, French tips!), where are you going to keep the dozen of feet of chain rode and the approximately 200 lbs. of anchors you'll need to stay off the coral heads when it goes 45 knots from North and then 50 knots from South in the same horrible 12 hour stretch?

You probably get my drift. By all means improve your boat. Sail it coastally in terrible conditions until you squeeze out all the instructional time you can out of it. Then find a different boat.


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## johnshasteen

I agree with everyone that a Catalina 30 was never intended, by it's designers, to be a blue water warrior. They are great boats for bay and coastal cruising and great boats for hanging out in the slip. If you are going to circumnavigate, get the right boat.


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## chucklesR

You can mount 'ocean rated' ports to the hull, but the hull doesn't change.
You can mount a serious rudder to the hull, but the hull doesn't change.

The scantlings of the C30 are what make it a category b, to upgrade it to category a you have to change the scantlings. To do that, you start at the design phase.


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## GeorgeB

Despite the provocative title, is your "real' plan to sail the boat from Texas to the Bahamas? I cannot speak to the conditions in the Gulf, but based on my experience sailing C30's in the Pacific, a properly prepared boat should be up to the job. People on this site love to trash talk Catalina's and IMHO you will be hard pressed to get an unbiased opinion. I, myself have a favorable opinion of the boat and have actually sailed them fairly extensively, including offshore and way out of sight from land. I suggest you go to the C30 Owners website to find practical information on what kind of improvements you may want to make for your intended voyage (http://www.catalina30.com/).

The C30 has enjoyed an extremely long production run (something like over 25 years) and the build quality reflects the standards of the time the boat was built. Frank and Gerry's philosophy has been to evolve their designs based on the inputs from their vast customer base. Therefore, a boat built in 1975 will be much different than one built in 1985 or 95. What year is your boat? Your boat's "vintage" will ultimately determine what improvements may be necessary. What hasn't changed is the basic hull mold and sail plan. This was done to maintain the class's one design status. So (un)fortunately, you are stuck with the IOR influenced hull shape (pinched stern) which lends itself to a little squirrlyness downwind in winds of 25kts+. This was corrected in later boats by an elliptical rudder, a popular owner "upgrade". This boat has a relatively wide beam to length ratio, and many people make the mistake of sailing with a relatively deep heel angle. The boat really likes to stand up on her feet and the long traveler beam allows you to make the necessarily adjustments. Much has been made about the large companionway opening, but if you are familiar with the Cal 30, it has one just as large and the Newport's opening is larger, and it has practically no threshold to keep water out. I probably been "pooped" more times in a Catalina than most on this board, and feel that this "problem' is hyped way out of proportion with reality.

One problem boats with a short LOA all share is a lack of tankage, battery capacity and general storage space. That is something that you are going to have to figure out. I know a couple of guys who raced their Moore 24 to Hawaii last summer with only a pair of group 24 batteries and an outboard motor. So you should be able to work the logistics for a four or five day passage easily.

The Catalina 30 (mkIII) holds a Design Category "A" (Ocean) Certificate from the International Marine Certification Institute. The C28 and 270 hold the "B" certificate and the C250 holds a "C" certificate. I verified this on Catalina Yachts' website.[/font]


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## HermitScott

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE. I apologize for the misleading title. I have been participating in forums for 6 months and one thing I never do is respond to a title; I read the persons post first. I got a feeling if I just put "circumnavigate" as the title but in the post I said I was going to do it in a hobie cat, everyone would be like 'oh awsome you're going to circumnaviagate, good luck' with out ever reading the post. 
My biggest ambitions right now are to sail along the coast to Florida but cut the corner and cross a little bit of the gulf, maybe a night or 2 at sea. 
What I really wanted to know is what makes the C30 NOT a heavy weather boat. Because you could circumnavigate in a bass tracker if you had calm seas all the way. When I cut that corner of the gulf, I want to make sure that my boat isn't going to kill my wife and me.


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## MoonSailer

Try it out first!!!! Wait until there is some rough weather and then sail out and experience what the boat does. If it is scarey and uncomfortable ask yourself if you would want to be 100 miles from shore. It is better to discover your boat's characteristics close to help than far out at sea.
Go to sailcalculator and compare the numbers of a C30 to some other boats.


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## HermitScott

George, Is class 'A' an offshore boat? Is that the highest rating of heavy weather capability? Mine is a 1979, so that class may be different for that year. 
As a disclaimer I have never sailed any boat in my life. I rebuilt the engine in my boat and motored it 40 miles in the ICW to a boat yard. 
The stage I am at is fixin' up the boat. I plan to begin sailing in the spring.
sailortjk1-I am that guy that thinks he can do anything. However now that I am 34 I am not as impulsive as I once was. I try to get all the facts first and then make a decision. I do listen to wisdom.


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## blt2ski

The Class A rating is from a european spec, meaning it will handle ceratin wave sizes, has a place for a life raft in/on the transom area. Door ways that meet a certain sizing etc for open ocean traveling. Your 79 will probably not have said rating, as I am rrecalling that the current system was done in the last 10-15 yrs or so. My 85 has a rating, while it may be equal to the current one, the letter designation is NOT the same. So I am not really sure how my boat rates. BUT, if I took a review article by Boat US, then I am going to swag I have a class a or equal at the time of manufacture. If not an A, it would be a B, and probably not by much.

For what you want to do, I will reiterate what I said above, going from Texas to Florida, cutting off the corner as you say, not a big deal. But if katrina is in the forcast, stay ashore in a slip! No dish on Vals boat, but I would not want to be on it even. But if I had a choice, Vals hand over fist before a C30. Yes I would own one for the type of stuff I do, but prefer boats with a racier profile, and ment to race then cruise, vs a boat ment to cruise, and gets raced.

marty


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## camaraderie

Hermit...don't look for or believe in ratings. If a boat is not rated A it is certainly not rated for ocean use. If it is rated A...it MAY mean it is ocean capable...but MANY are not. 
As I said...I really like the C30 and think it is one of the great boats of all time for typical sailors. You would be best doing a coastal route through the Gulf to Florida given both the boat and your experience. This means...being within 24 hours of a place to pull in if the weather turns. You can certainly cross over to the Bahamas on the right day. Learning to use all the weather information available and getting new reports constantly will be the most important thing you can do as you prepare yourself for this trip.


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## PierreMundo

Here's a nice read about a '96 Catalina 320 well offshore in a 1300 mile nonstop passage.

If well prepared you can go far and behind that.

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom - Sailing a Catalina 320 to the Virgin Islands
or
(www.) atomvoyages.com


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## thesnort

Very nice interiors on those 320's. There's one for sale near where I live and it's tempting me.


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## sailhog

Pierre,
That was an excellent read.


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## Rockter

Rather than make all those modifications to an existing boat, I would buy a Downeast in the first place, or similar.


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## HermitScott

What does this statement mean "the wind forward of the beam".
Also, and I know this will sound retarded, but when the wind is a westerly, is it blowing toward the west or out of the west. 
I have read that a lee shore is actually the windward shore but it's on the lee side of the boat. IS that correct?
Pierre-that story ties together all that I have heard about how my boat would handle in rougher seas. Almost every woe that I hear about in rough seas has to do with autopilot failure. It seems even the toughest sailors can take a beating at sea but noone can do it with out a break. Backup autopilot systems seem crucial. 
In that story the guy tells how he heaved-to; he sheeted the jib to windward and locked the helm a few degrees leeward. Does anyone have the capability to draw a picture of that showing the boat position, wind direction, boat direction, jib and rudder position?


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## PierreMundo

The Catalina 320 story was also published in the November issue of Blue Water Sailing. So Magazines do inform!

For more serious info on seaworthy read the book of John Vigor, "The Seaworhty Offshore Sailboat". He also explains how to "heave to". It's a MUST read. And also "Offshore Sailing, 200 essential passagemaking tips" from Bill Seifert gives a lot of info.


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## sailortjk1

Link for Alex's video on how to "Heave To"
Sorry for some reason I can't embed the video, follow the You Tube Link.......
YouTube - HEAVE TO


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## camaraderie

Hermit...sitting on the boat, imagine that the wind can come from dead ahead, dead aft or at 90 degree angles which is called "abeam". If the wind comes from dead ahead you can't sail...you need and angle of around 40 degrees or so for the sails to work. (Some boats can do it with less of an angle and these boats are said to point well.) So a breeze that is between about 40 degrees and less than 90 degrees off your bow is said to be forward of the beam. You would be sailing close hauled in such a wind or beating to weather.
You can find descriptions of the other points of sail (running and reaching) as well as "apparent wind" here:
Sailing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suggest you get a copy of "Sailing for Dummies" as a good intro into a lot of the basics.


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## jjns

Hermit - While your boat is up for repairs, why not take a certified course (with your wife) so that you are both prepared when it comes to splashing time. 
I was skeptical, but the Admiral insisted. 5 years of hindsight later, best decision we ever made, best money we ever spent. There are so many things that you cannot possibly learn from a book, and many other things that are best not learnt though personal experience. 
I thought I knew it all, having grown up around boats, turns out I didn't.

The boat is only 1 part of the equation.


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## Valiente

Hermit, I would also suggest that you and your wife crew on a slightly bigger, more blue-water oriented boat, like a Southern Cross 31 or a Contessa 32 or even a Pretorian 35 or a Niagara 35. Something fairly trad to semi-trad. Sail in big air and get used to the motion. Then go to your C30 and try the same thing. Work from that.

The best sailor can take most boats most places, but some boats don't require you to be the best sailor, and others give you a nicer ride.


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## GeorgeB

Hermit, welcome to sailing and Sailnet! Sailing is one of those endeavors that appear simple and straightforward at first glance, but become wonderfully complex the more you learn. This lifetime of learning is one of the things that makes the sport so addictive to us. You are at the start of a very tall and steep learning curve. Enjoy the journey

In regards to Category A, yes, it stands for ocean. Below is the definition from ISO. When your boat was built, ISO standards did not exist and the Europeans did not like having to reference the US MILSTD so they developed their own. They vastly increased the scope of their standards with the advent of the EU. All boats sold in the EU mast have a certificate so builders like Catalina had their current models certified. However, because your boat uses the same hull molds (underwater portion) and sailplan as the 310, I'd guess that it is the rough equivalent to a Cat A boat (at least no lower than an A- or B+). I personally like the AYBC standards better as they are more specific and easier to read. Unfortunately, you must be a member and purchase them so there are only fragments published on the web. As was pointed out earlier, the "A" category is a minimum and you have to delve into the various sail and performance ratios to truly understand your boat's capabilities from an empirical standpoint.
<O
A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale_. Equivalent to 40 kts._) and significant wave heights of 4 meters _(Equivalent to 13 feet)_ and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient.<O

You need to go on the C30 owners' website and do some research on your boat. 1979 makes it one of the early ones which may or may not have an issue with the keel stub. Those early boats had wooden fillets encapsulated in fiberglass in the keel stub. This is fine unless water has intruded via a crack and rotted the wood. Frank went so far as to develop a repair process so your boat may or may not have been repaired. You can call Catalina yachts customer service and give them your hull number and they can send a copy of your boat's warranty history. I don't recall when they switched over to solid material keel stubs but I think it was at the end of the 70's. I do know that by the early 80's all their boats had solid stubs. Other 'old boat' issues you may want to look out for: Upgrading the engine wiring harness; Converting your electrical panel's spade connectors to ring (screw) type; And check shroud chain plates and hull tie-ins. I recall that one of the shrouds chain plates to a wooden bulkhead? Check for rot there (and the deck too. The early Garhauer travelers were stiff and hard to use. Garhauer sells a replacement kit made especially for your boat. Before you start dropping some serious coin into your boat you may want to get it professionally surveyed. Too many people pour tens of thousands of dollars into a thousand dollar only to have a two thousand dollar boat in the end. Often times it is better just to walk away.

<OA little dissertation on wind: The side of the boat that the wind touches first is the "windward". The side farthest away from the wind is the "leeward". Westerly wind: blowing from the west. For example, a westerly wind will generally be behind you when you are sailing to Florida from Texas. Offshore wind: One that blows from the shore to the sea. This would make a "windward shore" Onshore wind: One that blows from the sea to land. This would make a 'lee shore". Lee shores are dangerous insomuch that you have to sail into the wind (and wave) in order '"claw off" the shore and get to deeper water. Sailboats wreck on lee shores all the time. Rarely on windward shores. "Wind forward of the beam" means you are sailing (tacking) into the wind. Remember that you cannot sail directly into the wind, the best you can do is 30-50 degrees "off" the wind. Wind on the beam is hitting you directly broadsides and "abaft the beam" is wind coming off your stern quarter.<O

Once again, you are on the steep side of the learning curve and I suggest you get some lessons, pay for a boat survey and find yourself a mentor who can guide you along the way.<O


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## HermitScott

George, I am pretty sure the keel has been refaired. I just did the bottom and there wasn't anything that looked bad near the keel. The chain plates have all been upgraded and the shrouds all have backing plates, and aluminum spreaders. Also the previous, previous owner was an electrician. Everything looks perfect and to ABYC spes, crimped, soldered and the right colored wires. He wasn't much of a motor head though.So I took out all the wiring harness and rebuilt the engine. Replaced the prop, prop shaft, packing(GFO) and had a stainless coupling made. I just put 2X 125 amp-hour batteries but they are from Walmart. I will never buy another battery from anywhere but walmart, becasue there is never a problem returning them. 
I am not going to have it surveyed, unless someone is going to require me to, like for insurance or the marina. IF I was going to have it surveyed, I should have done that before I bought it.
The boat would be ok to put it back in the way it is, but I want to replace the through hulls, because I don't want to have to take it back out for a couple of years.


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## GeorgeB

Hermit, it sounds like you are well on your way with your adventure (care to come out to California and help me and help me complete some of my long delayed boat projects?). Often, I read threads where the owner acquires an old, tired and distressed boat for practically nothing and thinks that without much effort or money he can turn it into a world class cruiser. From reading your responses, it sounds like you are taking the much more pragmatic approach. Good on ya! How the potential keel stub issue manifests itself is a deformation under the mast step as the compression forces crush and compress the rotted material. This wooden fillet lies just under the fiberglass in the bilge area. If you do not see any cracking or deformities there, and your shroud turnbuckles aren't at full stop, then obviously, not an issue. I still recommend looking into the Garhauer C30 upgrade kit. Those early blocks use bushings and after 30 years, could be way past their prime. I had an old style Garhauer vang block explode on me once so I am sensitive to the issue. Besides, the ball bearing blocks rock! They are much easier to adjust (thinking of your spouse).

I think the Achilles heel of cruising boats is their rudder and/or steering gear. This would include the steering vanes and auto pilots. As I recall, pedestal steering was an option in those early C30 boats and many of them had it added later. Back in 1979 I had a steering gear failure on a C30 where one of the cables jumped a block and jammed. Fixable, but disconcerting none the less. You will probably want to pay close attention to this area during your trip preparation. If you have Edson steering gear, they have a very helpful website on how to maintain it. You may also want to put in a mechanical stop on your quadrant in addition to the cable one as cables do stretch and a broken rudder will ruin your whole day. An auto pilot is invaluable to cruisers as it in effect becomes an additional crewmember. Constant hand steering may be fun and fast, but after a couple of days becomes quite fatiguing.

Have your questions on how your boat handles in a seaway been answered? Let me know if you want to keep the dialog going.


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## Valiente

You might have to have it surveyed for insurance purposes, unless you can produce a survey less than five years old. Also, your policy may have restrictions on where you can go (or when) with that particular model, just as a lot of cruisers in the Caribbean have to store boats south of the "hurricane band" in the summer.

The rest sounds pretty spiffy. I stand by my assertion, however, that even the most immaculately maintained or upgraded C30 won't be as appropriate for heavy conditions offshore as a 30-odd footer running oil lamps that is designed for those conditions, like, for instance, an Alberg 30.

It sounds, however, like you've got a very nice and sensibly improved Catalina 30. Enjoy it.


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## HermitScott

George,
My boat was pretty well taken care of until about 5 or 6 years ago the owner just left it sitting at the dock. Then another guy bought it to restore it, but was in the process of restoring a 26 footer and decided he'd rather have a catamaran, so I got a great deal because his wife wanted it off their dock in her time frame; which was immediately. The first guy added marine a/c, wheel steering, and updated the standing rigging. I think that if there was a factory installed problem with the keel that was known, I think he would have had it fixed. But I am not sure about this. Would this have been fixed from inside the bilge or from beneath by removing the keel? I don't recall seeing anything that looks like the bilge has been altered. Hopefully the 1979 model didn't have the same problem with the keel stub. 

I will check out the Garhauer upgrade. 
As soon as I get everything finished on my boat I will help you with yours. I have to warn you though, as you well know it seems to never be done. 
Scott


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## donwsailn

*What can fail on a C30 in rough Bluewater?*

Just skimmed this thread, so if someone else mentioned it please forgive me for restating:

#1) Hull to Deck Joint - The C30 was intended for coastal cruising, so the deck/hull joint was probably just glued with 5200 and screwed through when the rubrail was installed. With the nose of the boat crashing into wave after wave as the boat drops of 12+ ft steep waves, the deck can start to come loose from the hull, resulting in lots of water coming in with every wave. Eventually, the boat floods and sinks.

#2) Keel attachment - This problem has already been pointed out by previous posters. Basically, the problem is that the bottom of the bilge where the keel bolts protrude is not solid fiberglass. It is plywood with fiberglass on both sides. If the boat sits with water in the bilge, or if the hull/keel attachment starts leaking, water can penetrate the plywood and rot it. The keel attachment then loses its structural integrity. When crashing around in heavy weather, the keel can actually pull the keel nuts through the bottom of the boat, resulting in the loss of the keel and the boat.

#3) The Rig - Well, this can fail on any boat...

You said you want to go cruise the Bahamas from Texas. You should be able to do that with your C30 without too much risk because doing the Bahamas is basically coastal cruising with short hops between islands. Crossing the gulf stream from Ft. Lauderdale to Bimini is only a one day hop, so you can pick a good weather window and not get beat up.

Crossing from the Texas coast to Florida without taking the long way around (the Intercoastal waterway) could be problematic because you will be out there for 4-6 days, and that is a long time for the weather forecaster to be right  We had a couple in our marina that was trying to move their boat from the Texas coast to Florida for the hop over to the Bahamas. They said goodbye and left one weekend, and the next weekend they were back in the same slip with a couple of ripped up sails. They fixed the sails and left again, but this time they were headed up the intercoastal!

A friend of ours circumnavigated in a Tartan 37, and he said that the worst passage that he had was on the way back in across the gulf of Mexico from Grand Cayman to Matagorda Bay.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Don W.


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## JimMcGee

*Couple of Things*

Hermit, 
First congratulations on your boat and on all the work you've done.

That said the best equipment investment you can make is in yourself. I'd second what a couple of others have said and take a couple of sailing courses. Ask around and find a GOOD local school. It's also a good idea to get out on the water as much as possible in similar boats. I'm always learning when I'm out on the water.

I'd strongly recommend a survey. It sounds like you can tackle most any repair job, but a surveyor will be able to tell you what needs to be repaired. I had both my boats surveyed and both times the surveyors found things I'd missed. In one case it saved me a ton of money. Depending on the surveyor it should be around $400 to $600.

In addition to the Catalina 30 web site George mentioned, check out the Catalina 30 group on Yahoo and the Catalina 30 section on CatalinaOwners.com. Both have been a good source of info for me.

Most of all enjoy your time together on the boat!


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## mccary

One recommendation that may have been listed but not overstated would be to buy a first class life raft!


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## HermitScott

Thanks Jim, I tried checking out one of those groups and there were membership fees so I passed on it. Another, the format wasn't too user friendly so I lost intrest quickly. I have been on sailboatowners ALOT and those guys have really helped me out, some of the same guys are here. 
I have checked out the c30 website. My boat came with no runnning rigging, someone directed me to a link where the specs were on there. 
I just can't justify a surveyor right now. If I had another $500 to spend on the boat, I would buy a nice chart plotter or a dinghy or a refrigerator or a generator or a......
I'm not sure if I want a life raft. For what I am going to be doing, costal cruising, and the expense of a life raft, I would rather buy an inflatable dinghy and just leave it inflated on the deck. There is only one circumstance that I would get out of my boat and into a life raft; if my boat was sunk. I have heard too many bad things about them. Stories of people abandoning their yachts to get in a liferaft, and then the yacht is recovered unsunk and undamaged and the life raft is recovered unsunk and undamaged with no occupants. Or the boat gets knocked down and the life raft deploys and takes off with out you. If we were doing ocean passages it may be a question, but for what we are going to be doing it doesn't make sense for us. 
Joe- do you have a life raft for sailing on the bay?


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## JimMcGee

*Hmm, maybe a trade*

Since you're good with repairs you might see if you can cut a deal with a surveyor or even a local ASA instructor. You do repair(s) in exchange for the survey or some on the water class time. Just a thought...

BTW, I have a 95 Catalina 30. They're great boats, there are lots of loyal owners and a ton of information out there. You might also be surprised to find out that Catalina will still answer your questions/emails even though you have an older boat. Don't hesitate to use them as a resource. I've been pleasantly surprised more than once. 

Best of luck,
Jim
94 C22 Island Time
95 C30 Goin' Coastal


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## HermitScott

Catalina did suprise me when I would email them for information or call them. I figured they would look at me like a hobo or something because I own a 1979. I am a mechanical engineer and draft alot in 3D modeling programs. I want to build a hard dodger so I emailed them and asked them if they had the solid model for my boat. They didn't but they did send me some 
2D drawings. 
I'm not poor or anything. If I thought I needed a survey I would order one.( when I reread that it looks snotty, I'm not being snotty) I am trying to retire in the next few years so I have to use every dollar wisely.


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## TSOJOURNER

The difference between offshore and coastal for me boils down to weather forecast and avoidance since in my opinion there is little chance to survive "the big one" intact on a Catalina 30 or similar. Maybe you could do so many expensive and complicated mods that you could, but a) I doubt it'd be economical/logical choice and b) It probably requires a lot of experience to get it just right.

You might get lucky and never have the big one. But counting on luck for too long isn't the sailor's option. Active avoidance is your best chance.
However on a 30 footer old monohull your avoidance options are limited by low speed, especially as soon as the weather builds up. A "small" error in forecast (actual being 100 miles off forecast towards you for example) and you're in it.

There are plenty of very solid offshore capable small boats, for relatively cheap. If true offshore is your aim, I'd look at one of those.
On the other hand, if long coastal (i.e. within reasonable weather forecast window) is what you mean, then the Catalina 30 should be fine with "minor" modifications/preparations.

You can -of course- cover a lot of the world by staying within a 5 day weather window (say 500 miles passage). So in effect you could be a world traveller of sort already.
Eric


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## sailhog

eric3a said:


> There are plenty of very solid offshore capable small boats, for relatively cheap. If true offshore is your aim, I'd look at one of those.
> On the other hand, if long coastal (i.e. within reasonable weather forecast window) is what you mean, then the Catalina 30 should be fine with "minor" modifications/preparations.
> 
> You can -of course- cover a lot of the world by staying within a 5 day weather window (say 500 miles passage). So in effect you could be a world traveller of sort already.
> Eric


This is a really good point. I'd think that a few inexpensive upgrades on a solid C30 would allow access to the Bahamas, Windward Islands and South America. For me, it isn't the boat that would be expensive, but rather the time away from work. And it sure would be fun...


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## christyleigh

HermitScott said:


> Catalina did suprise me when I would email them for information or call them. I figured they would look at me like a hobo or something because I own a 1979.


 Don't ever be surprised by the high level of support you get from Catalina. If you can't get it directly from them the thousands and thousands of emails out on the various general and model specific email lists (which they occasionally monitor) will tell you anything you need to know. I've been in email contact with Gerry Douglas the designer over some email list questions and I had Frank Butler the owner call me at home over a wide spread warrentee issue and then send me a check. I'm sure other brand loyal owners may have similar stories but I sincerely doubt you will ever find a more responsive Mega-Company.


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## mccary

HermitScott said:


> ... I am pretty sure the keel has been refaired. ...


I have seen you mention this a couple times. Perhaps don't understand thew term, but to me a "Faired" keel means the owner/worker has taken out ripples and made it smooth for racing. This, while great for making a boat faster, does nothing for safety. I mean fairing does not speak to the strength of the keel/hull joint. Or do I miss the meaning of fairing?


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## sailingdog

It depends. If they just skim coated it to get it smooth, then no, it does nothing to make the keel less likely to fall off. If they glassed over the hull-keel join and then built it up and faired it, then it very well may help keep the keel attached, since they've reinforced the hull-keel connection with fiberglass-provided the keel-bolts and keel support were properly repaired.


mccary said:


> I have seen you mention this a couple times. Perhaps don't understand thew term, but to me a "Faired" keel means the owner/worker has taken out ripples and made it smooth for racing. This, while great for making a boat faster, does nothing for safety. I mean fairing does not speak to the strength of the keel/hull joint. Or do I miss the meaning of fairing?


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## HermitScott

It appears to have been built up some and then smoothed out. He probably had to fix the catalina smile and tried to reinforce it to prevent it again.


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## mccary

*Fairing*



HermitScott said:


> It appears to have been built up some and then smoothed out. He probably had to fix the catalina smile and tried to reinforce it to prevent it again.


If this is the case, then as I suspect, the joint is NOT as strong as the factory had intended and certainly NOT open water strong. Again, I would be very suspect of considering such a voyage in this boat. I find this an indication of problems rather that the reassurance he sees it as.


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## chucklesR

IF the PO just glassed and glued over the smile on the outside instead of gutting out the wood and refastening from the inside then it's certainly not even up to original specs. 
The only way to know is to open the bilge and look at the bolts. Then drill in through the FG of the bilge and see if you hit rotten wood at 1.5 inches or less in.


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## HermitScott

I read up on the plywood keel stub. That is unfortunate that catalina did that. My keel bolts look good upon inspection. I grounded into some sand on the way to haul my boat. There was a small 
2" crack in the front and a small 2" crack in the back, maybe caused by the grounding. No rust or water came out of the cracks. I opened them up with a thin grinding disc acetoned and let them dry a couple of days. I used 5200 on them. I am going to take the nuts off the keel bolts one at a time and inspect them, and take some core samples of the blige to see what if anything is noticeably wrong there. Now that I better understand what is going on there I am going to cut the 5200 out and check it out better and at least reinforce those two areas with fiberglass. 
I would be well pleased to find solid fiberglass in the bilge, but we'll see.


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## SYMandalay

Crossing oceans is not for the faint of heart regardless of the boat you are on (short of the Queen Elizabeth).

It sounds like what you really want to do is leave Texas and go to the Bahamas. There is no reason your Catalina 30 cannot do that if you choose your weather windows wisely. Crossing the Gulf from Texas to Florida is quite an undertaking, not only because it is a week long passage (weather forecasts are not good for a week), but because it is a slog into the prevailing wind. So take the ICW or make shorter offshore hops and you will be fine.

The same applies to getting from Florida to the Bahamas. The weather can get really bad, but it is possible to do the trip in shorter hops that will fit within a weather window.

Don't make the mistake of buying a world cruiser to go island hopping.

If your girlfriend is scared to go on your Catalina 30, she can ride with me!


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## HermitScott

Jeannette gets alot of offers like that! If you were going on a cruise ship instead of a sailboat she WOULD be riding with you. She loves cruise ships.
I only have been on a sailboat once in my life. I motored my boat 40 miles on the ICW. I grounded it twice, once in broad daylight and once in the dark creeping very slowly. The first one I had to get pulled off of. The one at night I just backed up. I didn't have a depth sounder hooked up and I had a crappy gps. But I think the ICW is a little stressful for me as I was worried about not grounding my boat. If I was doing short hops in the gulf, at least I wouldn't have to worry about grounding my boat because I veered off 10' to the left. It seems like if you have charts in the ICW it still wouldn't help much. You have to pay close attention to what you are doing no matter what. In the gulf you could just auto pilot alot of the way.


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## jjns

Hermit
Please tell me I read that wrong. 
It sounded like you did 40 miles up the ICW with NO charts or depth sounder? 
No wonder you are nervous of river travel. 
I have never been anywhere near the ICW, but from what I hear it is a lot like our own canal systems, lots of interconnected rivers and lakes with sometimes very shallow &/or narrow channels. I also do not know what the Gulf is like but my guess is there might be the odd shoal/reef here and there. 
There is no substitute for proper charts, be they electronic or paper. You can live without the depth sounder, but it wouldn't be my choice. GPS also helps to keep you in the channel, but you still have to know WHERE the channels is, hence the need for the charts.
We don't leave a dock without proper CURRENT charts for the area we are traversing. We have also used our depth sounder to stay within an unmarked channel with great success. For that matter being as little as 1ft out of the channel can have nasty consequences, in some places.
Remember your boy-scout training, ALWAYS be prepared.


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## JimMcGee

Hermit,
If the intracoastal around you is anything like around here, even a good chart isn't a gaurantee you won't go aground. I've touched bottom in my Catalina 30 in the center of the channel behind Long Beach Island (low tide and chop). But by all means have the latest charts, a handheld GPS, keep an eye on the channel markers and watch other boats. If they're all hugging one side of the channel then do the same. 

As someone else pointed out, if you stay along the coast and do your prep work the C30 will take you to the Bahamas. The previous owner of my boat took her to the Bahamas when he lived in Florida.

I just want to find the time to do it myself.

Jim McGee
94 C22 Island Time
95 C30 Goin' Coastal
Maple Shade, NJ


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## chall03

Hermit, 

As someone once said to me, far more boats are found floating around oceans without their sailors, then sailors floating around oceans without their boats...

Or in other words, let me echo what JimMcGee and others have said, which is while the questions your asking about your Catalina 30 being ocean capable are good and necessary of far more importance is whether or not you and your wife are ocean capable. 

Please take that in the tone I mean it, being inexperienced doesn't mean that you can't do what you are intending, if you are determined enough of course you can, however your inexperience is something that I would address as soon as possible. For compelling reasons to do so have a look at the story of young Ronnie in the BFS proponent thread on here... 

As others have suggested get lessons, undetake passages on other peoples boats and increase your experience on your boat. 

Most beginner sailboat owners who do all of this I find often outgrow their first boat very quickly, or simply discover that they have in fact bought the wrong boat for their dream. Alternatively some discover that they may have the wrong dream for both their boat and experience level. I certainly bought my first boat in haste and naivety, and moved on to my second boat very quickly. 

I do accept that in your circumstance, there may be financial and other reasons why you can't trade up and may need to make this boat work for you.

Finally, best of luck, see you out there one day.


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## HermitScott

Ronnie Simpson and I went to the same college at the same time. We lived 5 miles from each other. We email sometimes and I keep up with his 'boating around the world turned biking around the world' blog.
Ronnie had more money than time and as many eager young people do acted hastily. He admits that. He was dreaming of circumnavigating; I am dreaming of costal cruising. Two completely different missions. Before I go to the Bahamas I will be more prepared than he was to circumnavigate. He had no insurance, no backup autopilot, no backup rudder and no drouge but he had 12 house batteries. If he would have read more, asked questions in forums like this and taken his time he would likely be posting pics on the web of the south Pacific instead of biking in Viet Nam. 
I am not in a position to buy another boat right now. I only have this one becuase a guy sold it to me for $3500. I have only spent 10 hours on my boat and I can already tell you, I would be happier on a 34' or 36' cutter or sloop with a solent stay, with a shoal keel and a 50 hp diesel. (with a pilot house preferably) OR a 35' to 40' catamaran with twin yanmars. I'm not too hot on sail drives though but if anyone wants to trade either of those boats for my C30, I will personally deliver it to them. 
I hear your wisdom though about preparing myself and my wife and my boat.


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## chall03

Good stuff. Very interesting to hear you actually went to the same college as Ronnie Simpson!

You are right, he was trying to circumnavigate and you are talking about essentially coastal cruising, however what you were initially proposing in this thread did involve offshore work, and well man an offshore passage is an offshore passage. A circumnavigation you could say is merely a bunch of offshore passage bunched together. 

I do get how you came by your boat and that the specifics of your situation is unique in that regard. If doing it in your current boat is the only option well then thats that. Grab a copy of 'Ocean cruising on a budget' by Anne Hammick if you can. An older book now it is still very usual in terms of addressing practically how to do some serious cruising in a boat your size....both in terms of outfitting and sailing. 

It does sound like you do have a plan, that your head is screwed on and it sees you know what needs to be done and are well on the way to doing it.....Once again best of luck and fair winds.


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## HermitScott

jjns-When I made that 40 mile trip I didn't even know what a chart was for. The ICW was primarily built for barges to travel. I guess if I was going to navigate it regularly I would prefer to do it with sonar. Guys with good large screen chart plotters say they do it all the time with no problems. The markers(cans) seem to me to be pretty good. I didn't run aground until I was within 3 miles of my destination. I got over confident of the width and depth of the channel. 
I was cruising along, I locked the wheel and went up on the bow and sat down. I was watching the cans go by then noticed I was kind of far away from the cans. I thought I wonder how far away I can stray from the cans, 2 seconds later I almost fell off the bow cause the keel dug into the sand. I had to laugh out loud and say 'I guess this is how far I can go'. I tried testing my idea of taking an anchor out and winching myself off the bar but I tried to pull straight back instead of a twisting movement. Then I was beseiged by jelly fish and I wasn't going back in the water. A guy came along in a power boat who also sailed and helped me out. 
chall-I never met the guy while he lived in San Antonio. I was looking up pics of hard dodgers and came across his site. To Ronnie's credit he's got balls. I could have easily ended up doing something like he did if I had enough money to hang myself with. I am too involved with trying to get my inventions off the ground to take off screwing around on a sailboat just yet. My dreams are (in this order) 1. get wealthy 2. screw around on a sailboat.
MY latest invention is Body Spin if you know anyone who wants to distribute them in Australia let me know.


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## chall03

Interesting looking machine.
With the amount of rum and coke flowing around here over summer heaven knows I need the workout however I doubt it would fit in either of my cockpit lockers


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## camaraderie

Magnets and a better name are what ya need! How about BodyWOW!!


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## sailingdog

This is Cam after he started using BodyWOW for a two-month trial... see the improvement...


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## jjns

Got an idea for your next invention.
Rework your spinning thing to incorporate a generator and sell it to all the sailors.
Just think of the possibilities. No worries of solar shading, no big sticks, no wind generator noise. The ultimate back-up power source and get a work out at the same time. Could make you millions.


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## jjns

Thanks SD, always wondered what Cam looked like.


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## Lostmt

donwsailn said:


> You said you want to go cruise the Bahamas from Texas. You should be able to do that with your C30 without too much risk because doing the Bahamas is basically coastal cruising with short hops between islands. Crossing the gulf stream from Ft. Lauderdale to Bimini is only a one day hop, so you can pick a good weather window and not get beat up.
> 
> Crossing from the Texas coast to Florida without taking the long way around (the Intercoastal waterway) could be problematic because you will be out there for 4-6 days, and that is a long time for the weather forecaster to be right  We had a couple in our marina that was trying to move their boat from the Texas coast to Florida for the hop over to the Bahamas. They said goodbye and left one weekend, and the next weekend they were back in the same slip with a couple of ripped up sails. They fixed the sails and left again, but this time they were headed up the intercoastal!
> 
> A friend of ours circumnavigated in a Tartan 37, and he said that the worst passage that he had was on the way back in across the gulf of Mexico from Grand Cayman to Matagorda Bay.


Hermit,
I'm over here on the Matagorda Bay. The sailors that I know, one my mentor, say the same thing. "Stay the hell out of the Gulf". First you have to get, from where you are, 50 miles off shore before you hit deep water. You will get beat to death in the shallow water. My mentor has done it in a 25 foot boat with 50 years of sailing experience and wont do it again. ICW to N.O then across the Gulf to Key West. From Galveston the ICW can be a nightmare and finding fuel is hard to do. You need to figure out your fuel usage and haul it with you.

I have been wanting the off shore experience and now have the chance to crew on a friends 74 Tartan 41. Then again his boat is built for blue water.


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## HermitScott

Do you mean magnets to slow the flywheel? We had magnets at first but couldn't get them to slow it enough, we had to go with friction. A big fan might do it, but not if someone is really strong. 
Bodyspin is ok, but we have been kicking around some other names. BodyWoW is not bad. 

I motored for 10 hours and used about 2 gal. of diesel. I don't think I would want to motor to Florida in my boat. It has a 12 horse diesel, so I am not sure how fast I can go with it. I had a broken prop and serious marine growth on the hull and prop, so I won't know what my boat can do until I put her back in the water in a couple of months. My gps said it was doing 4 or 5 mph with the growth and broken prop. I hope it gets up to 7 or 8 mph. I don't really know what that is in knots.


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## Lostmt

I wrote a fairly long answer to you but was signed out to the forum so I wont try to rewrite it. 

Sailing is not about how fast you can get there unless you are a racer. It's about enjoying the wonders you will experience while sailing. Me I don't care if it took me 6 months to get to Fla as long as I enjoyed the trip. Nice anchorage with a cup of jo watching the sunrise. Dinner in the cockpit watching a sunset. Taken a nice relaxing swim before dinner. Getting there with wind power and when I can't I'll motor along. But then I'm old and not in a hurry to get anywhere. If I need to get in a hurry I'll just leave sooner.

A trip across the Gulf would not be a fun trip. 

In short go for it. But do us all a favor post a video and story of your rescue.

One knot equals 1.151mph


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## HermitScott

Lostmt-I am of the same mindset. I feel the same way about life. I'm not in a rush to get to the destination. I'm just trying to enjoy the trip. I just don't think I would enjoy motoring that slow and worrying about running aground the whole time.
I know a guy who made the trip across the gulf in a Catalina22, then in a Catalina30 and then in an Allied Mistress39. He didn't seem to think it was that biga deal. 
If you write a long text be sure to copy it before hitting send, just incase it gets lost in cyber space.
What are you sailing in LOSTMT?


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## sailhog

Cutting the corner from Destin to Ft. Meyers would be a fun trip.


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## Lostmt

I'm over in the Matagorda Bay area with my boat in Port Lavaca. I know about a copy and paste. Just that this forum is the only one I have problems with.

The gulf is like Texas. The weather can change in a heart beat. Monday we checked the weather. Ok 8kts out of the NW. When we hit the channel it was blowing 15 gusting to 30. We only had a reef main up and were doing 5.8kts which is over 6mph. Coming back in we could only get 2.8kts under full throttle with rough chop, strong current and 30kt winds. Was a good learning day but not a fun time. 

Point is you have to be ready for a sudden weather change as the weather man is never right. Until time to leave go out and play. See what you and your lady can handle, learn your boat. She will take more than you can.

Your hull speed is in the neighbor hood of 6.7 or 7.7mph 
Fair winds,
David


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## HermitScott

I just looked up Matagora bay, that's right by Rockport. My boat is on the hard at House of Boats right now. What kind of boat do you have Lostmy?


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## Lostmt

Your about an hour from us. I own a Starwind.


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## TSOJOURNER

It all depends on your experience level. there are guys on here that say that anything smaller than 40 foot is way to small but i say again experience dictates you choice. There is a guy named mark (I cant remember his last name) he held the record for the youngest person to solo circum. at the age of 16 I think when he left. the amazing thing is he did it in a CAL 25 so like I said it is dependent on experience and level of comfort desired( comfort is relative). 

but it was no small feat he bought the boat in washington sailed it via panama to new york as a stock boat and yes it stress cracked and all but he and his dad made it. dismantled the boat i mean everything, he split the tub. rienforced everything and put it all back together and rebuilt the companionway put a hard dodger on it and a host of other mods. did the circum. and on a latter circum met a girl and got married and eventually had 3 kids on the same cal 25, once off kiwi got knocked down something like 8 or 9 times when they had 2 of the kids on the boat. granted they were under bare poles and were in something of a real hell. 

my point is if ya wanna do it sure it can be done. cant is another way of saying they havent found a way yet.and there are guys on here that will help but there are alot more that will tell you how stupid you are as a knee jerk reaction i guess. If ya want to do it and have nothing else to do go for it i would offer this advice i prefer a full keel and you will find the c30 to beat you to a sicking condition and worring about your home isnt any way to ride a beat. take the c30 into the gulf in 8' crosshatch waves and you will be thinking about a columbia or anything else before you reach shore. and if you hit anything with that rudder you can alnost kiss it goodbye. or you going to have a repair on your hands. i have ran agound in a full keel and dove to find the pull boat dragging me off backwards did no damage the keel felt the weight. 

just some thoughts if you wanna read them....S/V Southernwind


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## drewan08

*similar situation*

I just went through a very similar situation that you are in and hoping to encounter. I bought a C30 for dirt cheap dropped a Yanmar 30 in and sailed around the keys westward and up through Florida for my first trip as a sailor. The C30 sails well and is a nice boat for a beginner. I have heard that line 100 times since I purchased the boat for myself as my first sailboat. I am an experienced power boater. I guess that is why I chose the big overpowered engine for my re-power. I am completely refitting the boat so I luckily gutted it before making my first long passage on it.

There is an important rule to remember when boating. The worst thing will go wrong at the worst possible time. That is why in the boating world they practice redundancy, at least 2 of everything critical. About the boat I know that a broken down beaten up old C30 will handle more than most crew can handle. The gulf is shallow and can get nasty quick. I experienced this when en route from Key West to Naples with a planned safe refuge in Marco Island. The weather went from a beautiful 80 deg with a 12k beam reach wind with 2-3f waves into 30k with 45k gusts off the bow pushing 12-15f waves with a nice 9-11s period. It was fun for the first 6 hours. A tiller pilot or wheel pilot can not keep you from broaching like you can in big seas. They just were not designed to do that. So you steer by hand. I am a 23yr old who just finished college and was an athlete and am still physically fit. After 6 hours of manning the tiller i could not feel my shoulder. My crew could not relieve me and take their watch because they did not take sea sickness pills when they were told to because the weather was going to turn. I had to drop sail and motor when the starboard bulkhead tore out after about 10 hours of rough seas. I have a 20g fuel supply and plan to burn around 1.1g/h at 3/4 throttle or about 22-25hp. After 18 hours of motoring like this I needed to go to the jerry cans to replenish the fuel supply. Filling a deck fill in a 12f sea is not an easy task. Waves coming over the bow run right over deck fills and admit untold amounts of green water into your fuel supply. This means now every half hour I have to go below deck and drain the racor. This also means removing the companion way boards and allowing the green water a great chance to enter the galley. When the wind changed direction I was temporarily relieved. The waves died down to a beautiful 6f sea until the new wind direction caused a random sea. A 6f set of 3 on the beam will make a C30 go to somewhere between 45* and 80* not a knockdown but enough to make you hold on to the jackline for dear life and spill everything not tied down out of the cockpit. This only lasted a short while but I was glad for the fin keel and aggressive rudder for allowing me to turn into the random wave sets.

The moral of my trip is the boat should have handled everything (the bulkhead was replaced by a previous owner with undersized wood and not sealed and had rotted out). The crew is not meant to handle what the boat can. Water proofs only keep you dry for about 12 hours of spray and complete soaks from waves over the bow unless you have the rubberized survival suits that they use on ocean liners. With my overpowered engine I averaged 3k and was down to 1k when fighting breaking waves heading into Marco Island. A 12 would be impossible to have reached safe harbor with.

You should be able to make trips from Galveston to the Bahamas without problems. In other words if the boat is in good condition and you are a good skipper you will be able to go anywhere in the world.

I would recommend going with oversize by 1-2 sizes on your stays. Make sure your chain plates are upgraded (staggered bolt pattern longer and thicker) and in good condition. Pull them out and check for pitting stress rust browning. They are a cheap replacement for what they do. Catalina Direct sells them online. If you do not already have the aluminum spreaders replace those as well.

Take a garden hose to your boat and check for leaks. It is not fun to find your dry clothes soaked with sea water after a long cold night watch. Or to find your bread and other perishables destroyed by a saltwater leak. Salt water will eat through an aluminum can enough to make a soda leak out in one day.

The best advance in my opinion in marine technology is the ability to get satellite weather service on your chart plotter. It is cheap like 30$ per month 1$/day and the hardware for my Garmin unit ran me 300$. It can save your life and makes cruising easy. It tells you exactly in real time wave height and period, sea temp, rain, cloud cover, radar ect. If you are going to go through the gulf out of site of land I would get one.

Also an epirb, life raft and some sort of dinghy should be standard equipment for a sailboat going offshore. They will end up costing more than you have spent on your boat if you buy good quality gear.

There is so much more gear that you should have to make a direct trip from Texas to the Bahamas. There is a good list on boat us website. That is a huge expanse of open water with Cuba as your only safe harbor. If you hug the coast do good planing and take your time you will have a great time. This kind of boating is also more fun. It is good to be able to go to land an get a burger for lunch instead of another protein bar.

Have fun, and for good reliable advice read some published books on sailing. We sailors all have different opinions, experiences and risk acceptance so we will tell you what we think. A published edited book with peoples reputations on the line is likely to be the best advice. A few that have helped me are: Chapman piloting and seamanship, singlehanded sailing, tropical cruising, the entire Don Casey series, 100 things i wish i knew before i started sailing.


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## chall03

Good Post Drewan, really good advice and info. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
We are currently equipping our boat for her first major offshore experience down here in oz.


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## MoonSailer

Every trip is different. I have crossed the gulf stream when it was flat as a lake....I have crossed it with 20'+ swells. Never been there when it was rough. The same in my lake. Even the lake gets rough when you have 30kt gusts. I did see a 22' catalina roll coming through the jetties near Corpus Christi. Broke off the mast. The waves were only about 7' . Imagine that happening 200 miles offshore. Boats can take a lot but they can also roll and sink.


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## L124C

I have a book "Twenty Small Boats To Take You Anywhere" by John Vigor. One of the boats listed is the C27. John basically says many people will criticize him for including this boat in the book. He says the fact is, the boats are inexpensive, plentiful and therefore, have, and will be circumnavigated. His intent is to tell you what you need to do to the boat if that is your intention. He also mentions that you need to travel light in the 
Catalina, as the boat will need to be able to "give" in big seas. Most of the other boats in the book (20 to 32 feet) are blue water capable, sometimes with modifications. Interesting read.


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## MoonSailer

I read the book. If I remember he said that he did not recommend the Catalina 27 even after modifications. I guess that if you have got to go and you figure that death at sea is better than life on land then any boat will work. Also modification of a cheap boat to make it seaworthy may end up costing a lot of time and money and you still end up with a marginal boat. Again it boils down to how bad do you want to go and what value do you place on your life. I think that a lot of these dreamers experience one storm and do a reality check. A year or so ago a woman said she was sailing singlehanded around the work in a PS Flicka. She did not make it across the Gulf of Mexico. The reality of a very well made 20' boat out in the sea was not exactly the same as her dream!!!! It is easy to dream of kayaking across to the Bahamas but few are up to the reality. A Catalina 30 is a fine boat designed and constructed for coastal sailing. But I would be hestitant to take one from Pensacola to Key West!!!! I would never consider crossing an ocean in one unless I was suicidal.


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## L124C

Bigger is not always better. Installing a larger motor (what is a Yanmar 30?)than the boat was designed for, or increasing rigging size may add weight in places you don't want it. The adverse effects may not show up until the worst possible time. Make sure you get competent advice before altering a boat.



drewan08 said:


> I just went through a very similar situation that you are in and hoping to encounter. I bought a C30 for dirt cheap dropped a Yanmar 30 in and sailed around the keys westward and up through Florida for my first trip as a sailor.
> 
> I would recommend going with oversize by 1-2 sizes on your stays. Make sure your chain plates are upgraded (staggered bolt pattern longer and thicker) and in good condition. Pull them out and check for pitting stress rust browning. They are a cheap replacement for what they do. Catalina Direct sells them online. If you do not already have the aluminum spreaders replace those as well.


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## L124C

MoonSailer said:


> I read the book. If I remember he said that he did not recommend the Catalina 27 even after modifications.
> 
> Vigor definitely was not trying to encourage anyone to do it. He knows that people will do it, and he is simply trying to give them a fighting chance.
> 
> The DVD "Dark Water" is a chronicle of the lack of respect some people have for the sea and how they often live to tell about it. Unbelievable! If you see it, make sure to look at the extra features.


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## HermitScott

Last month I finished 'Fastnet Force 10'. Very descriptive about how the sea kills people. 
I think drewan is talking about a 3GM. Aren't those like 27 HP? Anyway I have a 12 hp engine that I rebuilt myself. From what I read so far I wouldn't use an engine in heavy weather anyway. But it would be nice to have a bigger engine for the times I would want to motor in the ICW. 
My dream is not to sail across the ocean in a C30. I am going to use the boat for what it is designed to do, coastal cruising. I know everyone is in love with the idea of crossing the pacific in a sailboat. The only boat I would like to cross the pacific in would have CARNIVAL on the side. 
However, I will upsize my rigging, get a jordan series drouge and make sure my boat can be turned upside down with out a counter top or batteries flying out and crushing me or my wife, before I venture out far enough to be concerned with unexpected and not forcasted weather. I am going to try my best at being an expert planner and not ever get any heavy weather experience on this boat. I am going to try to keep my time on the boat as close to my daydreaming as much as possible.


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## MoonSailer

It is hard to find a better boat for the money for coastal cruising than a catalina 30. Everyone that I've known that has owned one has been very happy with their boats. They have a lot of room for a 30' boat. Going around the Gulf and to the Bahamas should be doable in a C30. Now extensive cruising in the islands might not work so well. BUT by the time you get to the keys you should have a good ideal of what your boat can do safely.


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## TSOJOURNER

Hermit, you have my attention with this thread! For years I have been looking at C27's and now C30's as a possible upsized boat. Right now I have a Seaward 25 on the Great Lakes, and the family is fast outgrowing it.

My dream is to one day take the boat on a circumnavigation of the eastern half of the US. That will put me in the vicinity to travel to the Bahamas and maybe the VI's before returning to Florida and then head into the Gulf. Posts like the ones contained in this thread have always made me 'rethink' my approach to my future boat pick.

But here is what the logic tells you and it is contained right within the very posts warning you not to try to take your C30 'off shore.' The boat was designed to compete in the IOR. The IOR. That is the International Offshore Racing class. 

Also, note that I am no longer interested in a C27 because the next jump will be to a 30, 31, or 32 at this point, but I once got excited about reading how the C27 had circumnavigated for different sailors. That of course was clobbered with the 'nothing smaller than a 40' with full keel' recommendations. Well, look at the history of the California to Hawaii races and look to see how many C27's have been entered over the years. I scratch my head and wonder why it would be OK to think a C27 could race to Hawaii but not sail to Bermuda as the Pacific race is near the coast and the Atlantic is dangerously too far out to sea. If I look at a map, the crossing in the Pacific is way farther.

To add to all that, you can read about Florida to Bahama sails across the Gulf Stream in C30's, C320's, Seaward 32's, Hunters, Precisions, and a host of all sorts of other boats all over the net. 

You can also read about ocean sailing in Caliber 28's, PSC 27's and even PSC 24 Dana's on the net as well. My point is they are out there doing it and having a blast.

My recommendation is yes, you can and you will. In the mean time, take a basic keel boat sailing class, then the cruising class, and then the bluewater class. It would be a fun way for the two of you to spend some time together.

It is OK to ask for advice, but remember, if all the sailors and boats were lost as the stories would indicate, then how come they are there in the marina bar to talk about it (probably gets worse every year too)?

I have been sailing for close to 30 years now and learned most of what I know the old fashioned way...that is 'oops, don't do that again...' Or better yet..'oh, that is why you want to reef!' I have left the harbor (alone, I may add as I do not want to put others in jeopardy for my sometimes self inflicted 'learning experiences') in conditions that have other sailors standing on the docks watching for me to roll and sink, and I can tell you some of those conditions are truly amazing rides. The Great Lakes can kick up into a froth that presents its own set of challenges.

Good luck and let us know how the boat mods are coming along! For me, I am planning on a C30 Mk III, C309, or C320 for my little US circumnavigation. If a C320 can go from England to Norway and back again...twice, it will survive a passage down the coast with a detour to the Bahamas....

Dan
SE Michigan


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## smackdaddy

Now that's a breath of fresh air - with some moxie to boot! Thanks for the perspective Dan.

I had no idea the C27 was IOR. That is an eye-opener. As a lake-bound newbie with a C27 looking to purchase a second coastal cruiser I do have to say that the prevailing drumbeat can make one think that a production boat is not much more than an egg-shell-with-a-spar. It's good to hear a broader perspective from other seasoned salts.


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## SVSnap

*Storm Tactics*

Hermit, I dunno if anyone's mentioned it yet, but the book that MOST prepared me to go places with my 1984 C30 was Storm Tactics by Lin and Larry Pardey. I bought the book, found some stuff on line for about $200 and now I feel 1000% safer than I did before. Seriously.

I still haven't done anything crazy with the boat, and I don't plan to. But I feel a hell of a lot better about my up and coming Pensacola to Corpus Gulf Crossing. (Tentative midmay sail date, wx permitting) I do wish we'd get more than 25 kts in pensacola so I could try this stuff out.

- Hunter


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## sailhog

Isn't a C-30, but a tough boat nonetheless...

1989 Catalina Custom Built Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## HermitScott

dceggert-when you say circumnavigate the eastern US do you mean the great loop? (look that up) You might want a shoal keel to do that. 
I am very excited that I am going to put my boat back in the water after 6 months of working on her on the hard. I refaired the keel solid fiberglass and epoxy, replaced all the through hulls with adapter plates, new prop, new shaft, new cutlass bearing, and finished rebuilding the things on the motor like the water pump and the alternator. The engine was rebuilt before I brought it to the yard. Hopefully I will at least be able to motor where ever I want to go. I still haven't decided on a slip yet. But they are cheap here in texas. 
My plans are to learn to sail this summer on Corpus Christi bay and parts of the gulf of mexico and sail to the bahamas this winter. 
SVSNAP-I hope to see you in the Corpus Christi bay this summer. Let me know when you will be coming across. My email is [email protected] 
It would be cool to meet up with you and talk about your crossing. I hope you don't have to try any heavy weather tactics out though. 
As far as a 30' boat is concerned, I have plenty of room for me and my wife but I would like the galley and head to be a little bigger. I think a 34' or 36' boat would be perfect for us. If I ever get rich enough I will buy a 35' catamaran or a trawler about that length. I don't know if I am in love with sailing yet. I will find out this summer. I know one thing I am sick of being landlocked in San Antonio.


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## sailingdog

HS-

Don't post your e-mail like that... good for spammers, bad for you... use maxrepmail {at} Yahoo {dot} com or something like that instead. 


HermitScott said:


> My email is [email protected]
> It would be cool to meet up with you and talk about your crossing. I hope you don't have to try any heavy weather tactics out though. .


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## chall03

HS,

Just finally got around to checking out your boat pics on My Space. It's looking good man, thats a nice boat you have there.


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## mccary

SVSnap said:


> ...the book that MOST prepared me to go places with my 1984 C30 ...
> - Hunter


Now that is something you don't see everyday; a a Hunter with a Catalina!


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## PJK

Hey Scott,
I'm the proud owner of a Catalina 30 Hull #174. Although I agree with some of the replies regarding the C30 as unsuitable for open ocean travel I would not hesitate to take my old boat on a trip across the Gulf. I've done many upgrades to my boat and plan on taking her from Canada to the Caribbean for an extended 2 year trip. I have a lot of sailing experience in many boats and I can tell you with certainty if you are a careful captain and choose your weather windows you can take your Catalina anywhere. Have fun and don't listen to all the nay Sayers. Most sailors have never broken the 25 mile barrier.


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## Lazerbrains

Nice first post, but this thread is 9 years old and Scott hasn't been on these forums since 2010.
I'm sure he figured it out and is long gone by now.


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## chuck53

Lazerbrains said:


> Nice first post, but this thread is 9 years old and Scott hasn't been on these forums since 2010.
> I'm sure he figured it out and is long gone by now.


Another case of newbieitis.


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## PJK

Guilty as charged....lol


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