# New Safety Rules?



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Anyone aware of the changes coming?

Seems like some costly requirements are being pondered.

Changes coming to Offshore Racing and PHRF | fbyc.net


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Can't really be surprised, given the losses of lives and boats during offshore races this past year.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

> 6. Each boat must have a permanently installed manual bilge pump which is operable from the
> 7. The boat shall have USCG approved sound devices, flares and fire extinguisher.
> 8. For PHRF Baywide, existing lifelines that meet PHRF standards are grandfathered but replacements cockpit with handle attached via catch or lanyard.
> 9. For PHRF Baywide, the engine must have fuel to run at the specified speed for 4 hours. For
> For PHRF Baywide, a 11.5" radar reflector and suitable anchor chain and line shall be carried. must be to the new standards. Therefore if your old vinyl-covered lifeline fails it must be replaced with either bare stainless or HMPE of the size specified in the regulations. outboards with integral tanks and battery outboards, spare fuel and battery may be necessary.


Pretty sloppy proof reading in the above.. I think it should read:

6. Each boat must have a permanently installed manual bilge pump which is operable from the cockpit with handle attached via catch or lanyard.

7. The boat shall have USCG approved sound devices, flares and fire extinguisher.

8. For PHRF Baywide, existing lifelines that meet PHRF standards are grandfathered but replacements must be to the new standards. Therefore if your old vinyl-covered lifeline fails it must be replaced with either bare stainless or HMPE of the size specified in the regulations.

9. For PHRF Baywide, the engine must have fuel to run at the specified speed for 4 hours. For outboards with integral tanks and battery outboards, spare fuel and battery may be necessary.

10. For PHRF Baywide, a 11.5" radar reflector and suitable anchor chain and line shall be carried.

Agree that this was inevitable given the experiences of the last season's events...


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Here's some background info, FYI (Safety-at-Sea) and the full list is here: http://media.ussailing.org/AssetFactory.aspx?vid=22647

October 23, 2013
Proposed U.S. Safety Equipment Requirements Approved by US Sailing Board of Directors

US Sailing's Safety at Sea Committee has conducted an overhaul of ISAF's Offshore Special Regulations (OSR), which describes the gear required to be used on sailboats when racing in most local and offshore races in the U.S. The U.S. Safety Equipment Requirements (USSER) document is intended to be used by race organizers, owners and boat inspectors. The proposed updates were approved by US Sailing's Board of Directors last weekend at the organization's Annual Meeting in Captiva, Fla. on Saturday, October 19.

Based on some excellent initial work by the Northern California Ocean Racing Council in 2012, the USSER sub-committee has completed an initial list of equipment and boat characteristics that will serve the needs of the majority of coastal and offshore racers in 2014.

The USSERs will be implemented by the 2014 Newport Bermuda Race, a preeminent offshore race. A US Sailing Safety at Sea Seminar will take place March 15-16, 2014 in Newport, R.I. The seminar will provide details on the new requirements to prospective racers.

The key differences between the US Safety Equipment Requirements (USSER) and the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) OSRs are as follows:

1. The requirements are easier for yacht owners and pre-race inspectors to understand. 
2. The requirements are self-contained and do not refer to external documents. 
3. The number of race categories has been reduced from seven to three: Nearshore, Coastal, and Ocean. Race organizers can then add or delete gear requirements based on the nature of their individual races. 
4. The requirements are more specific about certain pieces of gear that lacked definition in the OSRs.
5. The OSRs contained both recommendations and requirements which proved confusing to users, and which increased the size of the document. The recommendations have been removed from the new version.
6. The requirements are far more compact, and can easily be included in their entirety in a Notice of Race or on a yacht club website.

Chuck Hawley, US Sailing's Safety at Sea Committee Chairman said, "One of the functions of the Safety at Sea Committee is to promote equipment requirements that are appropriate for the conditions, easily verified, and not excessive. I believe that the new USSERs meet those criteria, and will serve offshore sailors well. We encourage all Organizing Authorities to use them, edited if the local conditions warrant, so that races in the U.S. are sailed under consistent equipment rules."

As with any standards document, the USSER will be modified over time.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

There are some work-arounds. For lifelines, instead of replacing the ones that are covered, I understand I can just remove the plastic covering to "uncoated stainless steel." There are some funny things such as a MOB pole. What do you do if you're single-handing? Yet, it still needs to be stored on deck and and ready to use...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I think it's a good direction. Having the CG ban racing is a scary thing.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Faster said:


> Pretty sloppy proof reading in the above.. I think it should read:
> 
> 6. Each boat must have a permanently installed manual bilge pump which is operable from the cockpit with handle attached via catch or lanyard.
> 
> ...


Uh...does anyone really think that these safety precautions are unreasonable? Especially #7, which I thought was required of all recreational vessels over a certain length, anyway?!?!?

Boater's Guide to Federal Safety Requirements


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

The 2015 requirement for a handheld VHF with integral GPS strikes me as a little over the top but the rest seem fairly reasonable.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

"...over a certain length" is the key distinction. These will apply no matter the size of the vessel.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

The changes don't seem very different from what has already been in effect for races around here. Based on the OP's link, it looks to me like we'll need to get a lanyard to attach the pump handle to something in the cockpit, ($0.75?) lash a sheath knife to the binnacle somewhere ($49.50?), and get a new handheld radio a year from now.($125.47, what with inflation?) If I'm going offshore and need to buy an 8-man liferaft - that's another story.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Try complying with the offshore regs for a Catagory 1 race:

http://www.bermudaoceanrace.com/images/stories/pdfs/A2B-ISAFOSR2014draft1.pdf

The race committees want more participants but the cost of compliance gets more burdensome. I'm getting ready to build my emergency rudder, added AIS, had a second manual bilge pump operable from the cabin already aboard, bought an EPIRB, rented a life raft, am borrowing SOLAS flares and an offshore medical kit ... Don't ask me to translate that to dollars!


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

We figured that to go on the Newport-Bermuda race in our boat it would cost us about $15-$20,000 for required gear and equipment upgrades. In addition to other stuff that would also be good ideas (new halyards, sheets, blocks...) Not counting the entry fee, training sessions, or ancillary items like hotels, dockage and food in Newport, Hamilton, and in between. If you have to ask how much it costs, you must like NASCAR. I'm looking to crew for someone else if they have a spot.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

I could no longer imagine doing Newport-Bermuda on the current boat (Olson 30), mainly because of one thing- the requirement of meeting the stability index. I'd have to probably add a bulb to my keel, which would destroy my hopes of ever selling the boat to anyone planning on racing one-design. That, and I'd pretty much suck wind for all the inshore racing that we currently do. The only long distance race on the east coast (till now) that doesn't require it is the Bermuda 1-2. I quickly read through the list of recommendations, and there's no way I'd ever be in compliance with either SI for ocean racing, and the limit for coastal is not likely. I seriously hope they reconsider, but maybe I'm missing something??


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I used to ocationally compete with PHRF fleets in small boats. For those, only items 1,4 and 11 make any sense at all. Similar for one-design.

Exemptions for small (dingy) no engine craft? Clearly, it would depend on whether it was a small course with chase boats or a distance race.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Thomas Fleming Day insisted, "A noble art makes noble men, and there is no nobler art than seamanship." - See more at: Why We Race - Newport Bermuda Race


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The new electronics requirements seem unreasonable, in the abstract sense. But if you place them in context there have been a number of losses and investigations on the last 2-3 years and a lot of those have pointed at "Who? Where?" communications issues that could have easily been addressed, with lives saved, if these kind of regs had been in place. Is it appropriate to impose that burden for the sake of just a few lives, and the negative press that every death brings to the sport? Dunno.

What struck me more is that the cost of a Safety At Sea Seminar (I was at one of the very early ones when it was a Radical New Concept) has skyrocketed to MORE than the cost of the electronics they're requiring. Considering it used to be...what, $50 or $60 for the two day seminar, and maybe $600-800 for a GPS and VHF? And now the seminar and VHF+GPS are both matched at ~$250 or so?

Culture shock. Like paying $3.63 for a 28 cent gallon of gas. You tell me, which side of that picture is just wrong?


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

The S&S seminars are still $50 in the SF Bay area. Where are you? Someone is making a killing....


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

All of the USSailing safety at sea seminars (especially those with the ISAF certs) all charge at least $125. The ISAF cert at the Annapolis marine trades association costs a total of $325. I'm guessing it goes to pay for flying in speakers and the use of equipment and in-water training. I'm sure the facilities rental is not cheap, and there aren't thousands of people signing up.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

USSA says about 1000 attend every year. 
SAS Seminars
Given the requirements for % of crew and retaking, I'd expect more but apparently not.
I'd expect the $50 course today to be the four-hour shorty, the coastal class, rather than the full two-day hands-on?
And I won't even guess if they're using gen-you-whine-authorized repacks on the rafts.(G)


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> USSA says about 1000 attend every year.
> SAS Seminars
> Given the requirements for % of crew and retaking, I'd expect more but apparently not.
> I'd expect the $50 course today to be the four-hour shorty, the coastal class, rather than the full two-day hands-on?
> And I won't even guess if they're using gen-you-whine-authorized repacks on the rafts.(G)


The second day is optional. It's your money to spend however you choose


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

The regs don't go far enough. They should also include a SB radio and personal EPIRB for all crew members with tracking equipment on the vessel and should apply to all off shore cruising passages.

Its scary to thing they could recover all rescue costs in the future by S&R


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Piclark,

Do you know of a sutable PLB locator? I have been looking for years, but so far as I know there really isn't one out there designed for sailboats. Either they are $5,000+ and require hard mounting large antenna arrays or are handheld units that looks pretty cheap and unsutable for marine use.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Its scary to thing they could recover all rescue costs in the future by S&R "
Not so scary. The State of New Hampshire has been doing this for several years now. If you go into a wilderness area you'll pass signs clearly stating the new policy, which translate into "If you're too stupid to be prepared for the wilderness and you call our SAR resources, you're going to pay for them. And that's our decision."
Basically...if you go hiking in June and some quirky blizzard dumps six feet of snow on you, they'll still rescue you for free. But if you wander into the woods in January with nothing but your cell phone and a windbreaker...You'll get the bill when you call for help.
And that has worked pretty well for them. If they think you were negligent about your own safety, you get billed. If you were reasonably prepared and ***t simply happened, no charge.

That could work perfectly well on the water, especially since there are some very clear safety and equipment standards and reasonably respected groups behind them.

We've actually already seen this, to some extent, since the Reagan(?) administration. Call the USCG and tell them you're out of gas, and they won't deliver fuel anymore, they'll tell you to call and pay a commercial service. (Unless there's immediate danger.)

There's nothing cruel or illogical about this. You have the freedom to go do as you please, and that doesn't obligate anyone else to bail you out of what you've done to yourself.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Stumble said:


> Piclark,
> 
> Do you know of a sutable PLB locator? I have been looking for years, but so far as I know there really isn't one out there designed for sailboats. Either they are $5,000+ and require hard mounting large antenna arrays or are handheld units that looks pretty cheap and unsutable for marine use.


Not sure what you mean. PLB's are waterproof, but won't last > 24 hrs due to battery life (and are $250-300). Epirbs are dropping in price- just bought mine for around $650, and battery charge once activated is around 2 days. Both are ACR and arguably suitable for marine use.

Ray


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Right now it looks like adding an AIS SART is the most effective solution.

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: AIS & DSC MoB devices, the standards revealed

Give each crew an AIS beacon instead of a PLB, and your existing AIS receiver will find them. Or, anyone else's.

Other solutions are apparently coming but this is here, now, and cost effective.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> Right now it looks like adding an AIS SART is the most effective solution.
> 
> Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: AIS & DSC MoB devices, the standards revealed
> 
> ...


I agree. This is what I've been considering. Until they can get something all-in-one, it seems to me that the SafeLink with AIS and a handheld VHF is a better way to go than using a PLB with GPS. As to the battery life on either device, 24 hours seems adequate because if a rescuer can't get to the MOB within that time frame, the MOB's chances of survival are very low.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

A lot of discussion went into this at the last PHRF meeting. There were strong opinions on boths sides. PHRF is trying to make racing safer and inclusive, but there are people that want to race their larg dinghies in open water. Most do not want to pony up the cash to do it safely b/c "they only do one race on the bay per year". Well IMHO that makes no difference. 

I also support the safety regs for offshore CAT I sailing. Remember, most of these rules are MINIMUM requirements to compete. If you're 200+ miles out, the chances of being picked up quickly go way down.

The SAS seminars are worth every single penny. Even the $125 one day class (8 hours). This is not a watered down version of the class. It's what is required by most races, not the 2 day cert. When I need to get a re-cert I'll opt for the 2 day, as I was really impressed with the one day course. I would not be happy if they tried to cram that amount of information into a 1/2 day. What did bother me is that a lot of people were pretty relaxed and didn't seem to be taking it very serious. I took 16 pages of notes and review them before each offshore race or delivery.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The nautilus gizmo (from one of the links on Panbo) strikes me as either great or frail, I'm not sure which. The size of all the other "cigarette packs" but including a VHF so there's two-way communication. I expect that's fleapower for short duration, but that could be plenty good enough, considering it is one small packet. Question being just how durable it is.

On the cost of equipment...That could be turned into a positive thing for clubs and sponsors. If a club is running weekly races, why not buy a dozen safety gizmos, of whatever kind, and then make them available to the racers? Maybe free to club or USSA members, $10 a shot to non-members, possibly required equipment so they become a benefit to members and a revenue source to the club for non-members. Price it out so that the cost of buying one, is the same as the cost of "renting" one from the club for all races, all season. And give members more incentive, i.e. sell off the used ones at a discount at the end of every season and rotate in new ones for the next.

Or just take out life insurance on all the racers, and leave the safety equipment entirely optional. (G)


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

I believe Stumble (Greg) was talking about a device to receive and locate transmissions from personal beacons. There are systems with crew overboard transmitters that can talk to an antenna and receiver on the boat, but these have been a bit expensive and not quite the same as the PLBs and EPIRBs that talk primarily to satellites/rescue organizations. If you throw in the abilities of devices such as the In Reach (does a bit more than Spots), you get quite a gamut of devices for which maybe someone knowledgeable could write a current review... it can be a bit hard to keep track of changes in this area.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

> A handheld VHF radio shall be carried. For 2015 this VHF must have internal DSC/GPS capability to broadcast its location to the USCG which is similar to what cell phones do today with 911 calls. Most older handhelds don't have this capability and will need to be replaced by 2015. A fixed mounted VHF with DSC cannot be substituted for the handheld.


*I whole heartedly agree that a handheld VHF should be on any sailing vessel.* It is as convenient as a RAM mic, costs about the same, and provides a level of redundancy. However, the requirement in 2015 that the handheld VHF need to have DSC is over the line...

If the rules REQUIRE DSC Handhelds, then it is likely that some people will start sharing them. Because the MMSI can (and should IMHO) identify the boat, as these radios are taken to other vessels, S&R personnel may end up looking for boats that are not in trouble. (Yes, I know that a handheld can be registered as a handheld.) A far bigger issue, from my perspective, is that many radios do not have a properly registered MMSI.

*It would be far more reasonable to require a VHF with DSC AND A PROPERLY REGISTERED MMSI, in addition to a hand held VHF of at least 5 Watt transmitting power be aboard.*


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## maxmunger (Dec 29, 2005)

I may not understand some 'technical difficulties' but here on Chesapeake Bay these safety requirements are long standing for anything but 'pond' sailing under PHRF.
You can find our requirements for 4P and 5P races (bay) on our website.
Sorry other do not have these reqs. There are night time reqs also.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

OTOH, if VHFs are required to all have DSC as of 2015, that should lower the cost of DSC significantly, as it will have to be produced and implemented in the largest possible quantities, resulting in the best quantity discount, and no argument from manufacturers about whether that will make their radios five or ten dollars more expensive. It will simply be a matter of "we have to do it" and it will be up to them to be competitive about it.

Registration, pooled addresses, contact updates...I would think all of that can be worked out on the software side of the existing system. Oh wait, software...the IRS and the Healthcare folks have both gone to great lengths to prove that's not possible on this planet, haven't they?


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

gamayun said:


> I agree. This is what I've been considering. Until they can get something all-in-one, it seems to me that the SafeLink with AIS and a handheld VHF is a better way to go than using a PLB with GPS. As to the battery life on either device, 24 hours seems adequate because if a rescuer can't get to the MOB within that time frame, the MOB's chances of survival are very low.


A person can survive a lot longer than that in tropical water mases and other summer waters mases plus water mases tempatures are rising.

Ais. The cost for a boat owner is significate and they would not purchase them Many on the racing forum are stating having to hire a life raft or other safety equipement they state their racing their own boats is over and they will be looking to crew.

DSC for all vhf as long as non dsc vhf radios are available at less cost as in our s & r area we don't have dsc and our govt will probaly never install it either despite just about every other major non third world country has it..


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

pi-
"A person can survive a lot longer than that in tropical water mases and other summer waters mases plus water mases tempatures are rising."
The issue with a MOB locator is not survival time. If you can't get the boat and the MOB back together again within a half hour or an hour at the most, the odds are that the water is so rough, the weather so adverse, the situation so grim, that the MOB won't last 24 hours in the water.
Have you done MOB drills? Have someone throw a life-size dummy in the water while the rest of the crew is down below. Wait 30 seconds, just thirty seconds, and then have everyone come up and try to locate the dummy. With any chop in the water, any swells, any low sun blinding you, you will never see the dummy again.

"Ais. The cost for a boat owner is significate and"
No really? Even the fossils like me are seeing AIS is a great way to keep clear of commercial traffic, tow strings, and other moving obstructions. $212 will buy you a top brand VHF with AIS receiver built in.

Amazon.com: Standard STD-GX2000-B 25-Watt Fixed Mount Matrix VHF Radio with AIS Display and Loudhailer (Black): Car [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519Jh8WN5%[email protected]@[email protected]@519Jh8WN5%2BL

That's not lunch money, but for any kind of offshore racing? That IS less than many bar bills for boat crews. It shouldn't be a stopper. And if anything, it might be another good business opportunity. Why not rent one, the same way many of us have RENTED the mandatory life rafts for major races? Again, it isn't cheap, but everyone on the boat ponies up, and the deed is done.

Disc brakes and seat belts and xenon headlights and windshield wipers all raised the price of cars. Still, I wouldn't buy one without them. And I wouldn't _race _one without a good bit more invested in safety equipment.

"DSC for all vhf as long as non dsc vhf radios are available at less cost as in our s & r area we don't have dsc and our govt will probaly never install it either despite"
Well, for that matter your national sailing authority has the right to waive all those expensive new safety requirements and set the bar as casually, or as low, as you prefer. That's assuming you join it, which will probably cost money, and raise your voice there. If the racers and the clubs participate and say "No" they will be heard.

But the price of all this newfangled electronics? Really is dirt cheap compared to what electronics used to be, and if it is mandated in all equipment, it should drop even further. Many racers spend more on cable tv and other frills, making it just a question of priorities. The bar and the tube? Or the safety gear? And if really is too tight, well, maybe that's why a boat is still considered an expensive luxury. Even a small old used boat.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Have to agree with Hellosailor. Costs will be coming down and our safety equipment will need replacing at some point anyway. Might as well get the most advanced available when the time comes. If the racing regulations make that sooner rather than later, it puts us all in the same boat!


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

hellosailor 



hellosailor said:


> pi-
> "A person can survive a lot longer than that in tropical water mases and other summer waters mases plus water mases tempatures are rising."
> The issue with a MOB locator is not survival time. If you can't get the boat and the MOB back together again within a half hour or an hour at the most, the odds are that the water is so rough, the weather so adverse, the situation so grim, that the MOB won't last 24 hours in the water.
> Have you done MOB drills? Have someone throw a life-size dummy in the water while the rest of the crew is down below. Wait 30 seconds, just thirty seconds, and then have everyone come up and try to locate the dummy. With any chop in the water, any swells, any low sun blinding you, you will never see the dummy again.
> ...


Misleading Info

Quote from the descriptive website Amazon
$212 •AIS Display (receiver input required)

"The issue with a MOB locator is not survival time. If you can't get the boat and the MOB back together again within a half hour or an hour at the most, the odds are that the water is so rough, the weather so adverse, the situation so grim, that the MOB won't last 24 hours in the water.
"

What rubbish.

So the sea state suddenly increases the moment a person goes overboard? Like Hell.

If seen or heard at the time and the mark or manover board button is hit on the gps on board and the man over board pole is lauched with a parachute anchor so the person can swim to untill the vessel returns, plus he would probably have as I do water proof mini flares attached or in his inflatable life jacket for firing. Mini pack 6 flares. Dirt Cheap. If the boat does not still see him he can fire a flare at the sails hopefully putting them on fire. Does not matter how adverse the sea state is providing he has the correct jacket and the water tempature is warm. It has been known for a person to survive 96 hrs in the water although dehydrated and severe body swelling from salt water intake into his system.

Tell your story on a thread "costs entering a off shore race Cat 1 regs" and see how many positive replies you get in your area. Most of our vessels comply with Cat 1 or 2 as we have had to for the past 30 years.

Quote correct info and prices all the time now.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Misleading Info
...$212 •AIS Display (receiver input required)"

My bad, I didn't read past the headline. If you've been racing offshore for 20-30 years then you remember paying $500 or $1000 for a LORAN before GPS, and you remember what GPS used to cost. Point being, AIS in one way or another is still cheap enough to afford. $300-400? USB to your laptop or chartplotter accessory, so many ways to do it.

"What rubbish. ...
So the sea state suddenly increases the moment a person goes overboard? Like Hell."
You know very well no one said that, you're just looking to argue. The fairly obvious point is that if you can't recover a MOB in 1/2 hour or less, there's something else going on, probably a weather condition with high winds and waves making it impossible for you to see them or maneuver to them. And for many of us, that means storms and that means cold weather and water. Even if the only problem is wind, you are no doubt aware that the ORC recommended spray hoods a number of years ago after finding that windblown spray is enough to drown a MOB in the water.
I'll stick by it: If you can't recover a MOB in 1/2 hour or less, it really doesn't matter if the locator intended for use by your own vessel runs more than 24 hours. With 24 hours of separation you have no idea where they are or might be, and the whole concept of "vessel" recovery needs to shift to a wider one of SAR and EPIRB. And, statistically, to body recovery not MOB rescue.

" Mini pack 6 flares. Dirt Cheap. "
Yes, and virtually non-existant in the US market because it is so easy to use the pen launcher as a zip gun, so they're usually treated as firearms and simply not sold in most of the chandleries.

"It has been known for a person to survive 96 hrs in the water although..."
Yes it has. If you go overboard in bath water. For those of us who are more often found in waters from 70F to 40F, the survival times are considerably shorter.

Temp_F___C____Unconcious______Dead
40–50° 3.3–10°; 30 – 60 minutes; 1 – 3 hours 
50–60° 10–15.6°; 1 – 2 hours; 1 – 6 hours 
60–70° 15.6–21.1°; 2 – 7 hours; 2 – 40 hours 

"Quote correct info and prices all the time now. "
I tried, and that's more than you've done. You're only interest appears to be *tching about the extra expenses. Someone who was interested in being helpful might at least try to post prices and numbers, rather than simply *tch about them being wrong.

If you can campaign a Cat1 racing boat for 20 years, you can afford to upgrade your VHF or chartplotter to an AIS system.


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

hellosailor said:


> "Misleading Info
> ...$212 •AIS Display (receiver input required)"
> 
> My bad, I didn't read past the headline. If you've been racing offshore for 20-30 years then you remember paying $500 or $1000 for a LORAN before GPS, and you remember what GPS used to cost. Point being, AIS in one way or another is still cheap enough to afford. $300-400? USB to your laptop or chartplotter accessory, so many ways to do it.
> ...


We are not talking about myself we are talking about boat owners sometimes 60 that want to enter races but with the entry fee, rating certificate and other equipment expenses in your area are stating that they have reached their max budget to race and are looking to crew. I have read them recently re these regs on other sights so I don't have to quote them. Want proof .Google the question.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

pi, do you really need a better translator? Because you keep imagining things I haven't said and attributing them to me.

"GPS 20 - 30 years old are non usable. they became redundant, at least my did with the turn into the 21st century. An oversight in the programming or Something."
You say "redundant" but it sounds like you mean "obsolete". Redundant means they can be used as spares. A programming error--a calendar rollover error--did exist in many units and was resolved so they can still be used with no problem. I know that because I've also got an old handheld. It doesn't display charts, but it charts positions just as well as it ever did.
But I never said anyone was, or had to be, using old GPSes. I only mentioned how expensive they used to be, but somehow, they were affordable because they were "necessary" for racing.

"Well the message is not to crew with you as skipper if you are only prepared to spend 30 minutes in S & R real exercise. "
I wouldn't let you crew with me, because you seem to get everything backwards. I said a MOB should be recoverable within 30 minutes, and I didn't say _anything _about how long I was willing to remain on station searching for one. 
By naval tradition, sailors shoot craps and play poker and they don't settle up until payday. That's intentional, so that if you fall overboard the rest of the crew has good reason to come back and keep looking for you. "Man Overboard!" Damn, and he owes me fifty bucks, we'd better find him.

"You have not mentioned the man over board pole with a drogue,"
Nope. Didn't mention many things that weren't the OP's question. If the MOB is conscious he can use a miniVHF and if he's inshore he can use a cell phone. And if it is daylight he can use a signal mirror. There are many things the OP didn't ask and none of us mentioned because _they're outside the scope of "MOB locator"._

"The US is small in planet cruising destinations that don't have that strict interpretation."
Yes it is. And then again, a majority of the forum members are US-based, as is the forum itself.

"They [pencil flares] don't shoot bullets "
The original ones shot pistol cartridges with no problem. When you figure out what caliber cartridge yours uses, I hope you still won't have a clue as to what cartridges fit in it.

"and it surprises me they would be classified as a gun. Can you quote the particular law wording to substantiate this." A particular law? Sure, but all laws are local. In most of the civilized world, there are laws defining "firearm" for the purpose of regulating them. Whatever laws regulate firearms in your venue, you go look at the definitions section of those laws. "Firearm" is usually defined as any device that uses any form of "stored energy" to move a "projectile" of any type, and the definition is usually in the broadest possible terms, so as to include spring guns, compressed air guns, guns using an explosive propellant, rubber slings, or anything else. Flare guns are still GUNS. There are usually provisions in the laws that also exclude them from firearm laws as long as they are on boats, or being transported to or from boats, but the laws still class them as GUNS first. Take your pencil flares to Bermuda, and you'll still have to declare them as _firearms_.

"We are not talking about myself we are talking about boat owners sometimes 60 that want to enter races but ... they have reached their max budget to race and are looking to crew. ...Want proof .Google the question."
Racers have always complained about how expensive it is to race. We pass the hat to rent an offshore life raft and we pass the hat to cover major entry fees as well. Lots of boats and crews do that, and have done that for many years. Not everyone has Larry Ellison's budget and even in his league, yes, there are complaints and even lawsuits about how expensive racing has become and how to keep the costs down.
Google the question? And what question would that be? No doubt answered on answers.com but every bozo on the bus, but that doesn't mean the answers are correct or relevant.

Racing costs money. That's why it is a luxury and, yes, an elitist sport much as polo is. Safety costs money too. Same thing if you want to sit down and play poker. Either you ante up, or you don't play. Don't like the stakes? Then find a low-stakes game.

The facts remain the same: Given all the costs of campaigning an offshore racing boat, the extras for this safety equipment will cost FAR LESS than the costs of any SAR response. If a fleet of 50 boats spends $1000 each on new equipment mandates, that's still less than the cost of _one _SAR response for _one _MOB in _one _event.


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

hellosailor said:


> pi, do you really need a better translator? Because you keep imagining things I haven't said and attributing them to me.
> 
> "GPS 20 - 30 years old are non usable. they became redundant, at least my did with the turn into the 21st century. An oversight in the programming or Something."
> You say "redundant" but it sounds like you mean "obsolete". Redundant means they can be used as spares. A programming error--a calendar rollover error--did exist in many units and was resolved so they can still be used with no problem. I know that because I've also got an old handheld. It doesn't display charts, but it charts positions just as well as it ever did.
> ...


Way off beam again. You contradict yourself just about on every page.

You even hint and suggest you can't afford to pay the cost and suggest the club should buy the stuff to rent free to members then at start of the following season sell them at discounted prices to members.

With respect is this you trying to sell an idea so you can buy the stuff at reduced prices.

Re the costs some say 20,000 dollors to be able to race 12 months from now.

You seem to have not retained or related to the postings messages and arguments / comments from page 2

I post the link for your re reading including your previous postings and confused thinking then and since.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing/112890-new-safety-rules-2.html

Hellsailor
:hothead :hothead :hothead


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

The report and the recommendations regarding 2013 Islands Race Tragedy was published:

summary of the panel's finding:

*Panel Findings:
1. The accident was caused by the failure of the vessel's rudder while sailing off a lee shore.

2. The emergency rudder preparations on Uncontrollable Urge were not adequate for the conditions in which the original rudder failed, despite the efforts of the crew.

3. The panel believes that if the skipper of Uncontrollable Urge told the USCG they were in distress initially when the rudder broke the USCG would have responded by sending help immediately. Even if assistance from the USCG was not needed it would have increased their options for rescue.

4. Help from the race boats would have given Uncontrollable Urge additional options for rescue.

5. The flight time for the USCG the night of the Islands Race was 50 minutes for the helicopter to be on the scene and another 60 minutes to ready hoist operations and pull the crew to safety. Before the USCG arrived the crew of Uncontrollable Urge had to be self-sufficient.

6. By the time the skipper of Uncontrollable Urge asked for assistance from other racers the vessel was one mile from the shore. Other race boats that could have responded with assistance were a considerable distance downwind and it is unlikely that those vessels would have been able assist Uncontrollable Urge due to her proximity to the lee shore.

7. The course of Uncontrollable Urge after the rudder failure was almost entirely dictated by the wind and swell direction. Her position was always moving towards the Island.

8. None of the emergency steering methods tried by the crew of Uncontrollable Urge worked in the conditions. The requirement of OSR 4.15.1 b) is "crews must be aware of alternative methods of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder loss. At least one method must have been proven to work on board the yacht". The crew of Uncontrollable Urge assumed that since they had success steering Columbia 32C hull #1 off of Newport Beach, Calif. in 10 knots of wind using just the sails they would be able to steer Uncontrollable Urge in the conditions they found off of San Clemente Island during the Islands Race.

9. The crew of Uncontrollable Urge found that even with the engine at full throttle none of the emergency steering measures gave them enough directional stability to counteract the leeway generated by the large sea state. If no methods of emergency steering have been tried prior to a rudder failure there is no way to know if the emergency steering method will work in any sea condition.

10. Four of five Spinlock deck vests failed to work properly, allowing the flotation chamber to pull over the wearer's head to one side of the body. The deceased was found floating face down with the flotation chamber pulled over his head. Given that the crew had to swim through large surf to reach the shore this was a life threatening failure.

11. OSR Category 3 is defined as "Races across open water, most of which is relatively protected or close to shorelines". US Sailing prescribes "that Category 2 races are of extended duration along or not far removed from shorelines, where a high degree of self-sufficiency is required of yachts but with the reasonable probability that outside assistance would be available for aid in the event of serious emergencies". While the Islands Race has a rated distance of 129.5 nautical miles the northwest corner of San Clemente Island is 75 miles from San Diego Buoy #1 and therefore in inclement conditions help is not readily available.

Panel Recommendations:

1. Vessels that race offshore should have adequate rudders so that heavy weather sailing conditions do not cause them to break. This may require plan approval or an inspection from a naval architect or marine surveyor.

2. Crews should be aware of how to contact the Coast Guard or other vessels and to indicate the amount of assistance required. The US Sailing Safety at Sea Course should address how to communicate clearly with the USCG and other race vessels in case of distress. A broken rudder should be considered an emergency situation in heavy seas and high winds. Specifically, sailors should understand when a Mayday or PAN PAN urgency transmission is justified. Crews must be realistic about their level of danger.

3. US Sailing should recommend that all race boats post near the VHF clear directions on how to communicate when the vessel is in distress. Some VHF instruction manuals have specific language on how to communicate when the vessel is in distress that skippers and crews should read.

4. Skippers and crews need to be aware of methods of rendering assistance to other vessels, including providing skills and advice, providing tools, acting as a communications relay, towing, and transfer of crews.

5. When sailors are in a life threatening situation, they should seek and pursue all possible options for assistance, including accepting assistance from other vessels.

6. The US Sailing Safety at Sea Committee should recommend that the Offshore Special Regulations Category 0, 1, and 2 replace 4.15.1 b) "crews must be aware of alternative methods of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder loss. At least one method must have been proven to work on board the yacht. An inspector may require that this method be demonstrated" with language that states yacht's emergency steering shall be constructed to the same or greater strength standard as required for the yacht's primary steering and that can be deployed in any weather condition.

7. Organizing Authorities of offshore races could offer the option to boat owners to submit a video of their emergency rudder deployment on their boat in lieu of OSR 4.15.1 b) "An inspector may require that this method be demonstrated". A video of the man overboard practice could also be required.

8. Safety tethers need a quick release that will work in any condition. The cutter, knife, or shackle that requires both hands to release is not a viable option.

9. Several crew members experienced problems when the inflation chamber of the life jacket was pushed over their heads, causing asymmetrical buoyancy. The panel recommends that Spinlock and other manufacturers examine the design of their inflating vests and consider making the inflation chamber more secure to the harness.

10. The Organizing Authorities for the Islands Race, Newport Harbor Yacht Club and San Diego Yacht Club should designate the Islands Race as an OSR Category 2 race.*

Full report:

http://media.ussailing.org/AssetFactory.aspx?vid=21870


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow - there is A LOT here to think through (e.g. - definition of "offshore/bluewater", when one should call for help, etc.). A lot this applies to the SDR discussion as well.

Great post Paulo.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

So George, purely from a racing perspective...here is what I found the most interesting:



> 6. The US Sailing Safety at Sea Committee should recommend that the Offshore Special Regulations Category 0, 1, and 2 replace 4.15.1 b) "crews must be aware of alternative methods of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder loss. At least one method must have been proven to work on board the yacht. An inspector may require that this method be demonstrated" with language that states yacht's emergency steering* shall be constructed to the same or greater strength standard as required for the yacht's primary steering and that can be deployed in any weather condition.*
> 
> 7. Organizing Authorities of offshore races could offer the option to boat owners to submit a video of their emergency rudder deployment on their boat in lieu of OSR 4.15.1 b) "An inspector may require that this method be demonstrated". A video of the man overboard practice could also be required.


This certainly ups the ante of how you prepare for a race, eh? Emergency steering that is as strong or stronger than the original? Is that really possible?

Also, the video of the deployment and MOB is obviously a nod to the fact that though most racers say they can do it, when the time comes, they can't. This is probably because people change boats so much, etc.

I'll be very honest and say that we only practiced MOB one time on the boat I crewed on. I practiced it several more times in my own boat, but if the poop hit the fan in our off-shore races, I would have been flying by the seat of my pants on that boat I wasn't as familiar with.

What are your thoughts on that?


> 9. Several crew members experienced problems when the inflation chamber of the life jacket was pushed over their heads, causing asymmetrical buoyancy. The panel recommends that Spinlock and other manufacturers examine the design of their inflating vests and consider making the inflation chamber more secure to the harness.


Isn't this just crotch-strap issue?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Some interesting points in the panel findings. The reccommendations....less interesting. #1: Plans should show that the rudder won't fall off? An inspection, no matter who makes it, won't do much good either. If the rudder is built to the specs in the plans, it will pass inspection. Until the sea decides otherwise. 
#2 Good idea. Will take time to have happen, and implementation will depend upon who holds the mike and what is actually happening when he or she makes a call.
#3 like #2
#4 Yes.
#5 Yes, why not? Machismo?
#6 Sounds like a good idea, but a jury rig that will work in ANY scenario is... problematic.
#7 Videos are bad ideas. How does one determine if the jury rigged setup actually works? Boat's heading? You can be heading the right direction and still be getting dragged towards the rocks. Leeway? It could be due to currents: an hour later could make a huge difference. A video will always show that the jury rig works. Otherwise, there's no point to it. Videos are therefore pointless.
#8 Isn't there already a requirement for quick-release tethers? 
#9 Manufacturers haven't tested their inflatable vests to see that they work properly? They're so comfortable when they're not inflated, why bother trying them out inflated? I have an inflatable vest - a gift from a shipmate - in my bedroom closet. I use a harness and a standard PFD. 
#10 Why wasn't it already a category 2 race? Easy to change in the NOR. Probably means everyone has to have a liferaft & other equipment that may cut into the numbers of entries due to the expense. I had fun making sure all my lockers and batteries were securable in the event of an 180º episode. Did Uncontrollable Urge have a liferaft and the other equipment required of a category 2 race? If they did, it apparently made no difference.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Smack, Paul, there is a lot of stuff in this report. I need to digest it a little and then respond (getting a little late and I'm still at work). I am really shocked at the Spinlock malfunctions. That's the vest that all the cool kids are wearing and it is SOLAS approved, a standard we all can agree is much higher than our USCG one. So they made all races outside the Golden Gate Cat 1 (same rating as Sydney-Holbart), now everything out to the SoCal islands are a Cat 2? and Cat 2 regs are picking up what used to be Cat 1 items? We are in a period of race rating inflation for sure!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

GeorgeB said:


> So they made all races outside the Golden Gate Cat 1 (same rating as Sydney-Holbart), now everything out to the SoCal islands are a Cat 2? and Cat 2 regs are picking up what used to be Cat 1 items? We are in a period of race rating inflation for sure!


This is the most important aspect to this as far as I'm concerned. The safety standards (via an obviously perceived need for them) are being pushed up by these incidents. To me it shows a growing mentality that organized sailing needs some policing. And that is a very interesting dynamic on both sides (Sailors growing complacent? CG growing weary? What?)

Maybe it's because I've been researching this area for a while - but something certainly seems to be afoot.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Apparently the Spinlock issue is not just the lack of leg/crotch straps, but also that the inflation chamber may not be well or continuously secured to the harness.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

smackdaddy said:


> This is the most important aspect to this as far as I'm concerned. The safety standards (via an obviously perceived need for them) are being pushed up by these incidents. To me it shows a growing mentality that organized sailing needs some policing. And that is a very interesting dynamic on both sides (Sailors growing complacent? CG growing weary? What?)
> 
> Maybe it's because I've been researching this area for a while - but something certainly seems to be afoot.


What could also be happening is the weather is not as benign as it used to be when we're out there. If the wind & waves had been less, or from a different direction in any of the situations in which there have been "incidents", they might not have happened.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I find it odd the the Spinlocks are not CG approved. Is it too expensive to get certified?

Race committees want participants. Safety regs discourage participants. There has to be a balance. I've been prepping for a Cat 1 race (Annapolis-Bermuda). The latest regs have dropped some minor gear (fire blanket) and AIS, but starting in 2015 all handheld VHFs must have DSC.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Paul, I don't think the weather was extraordinarily bad in the California sinkings and losses of life. It was rough in the case of Low Speed Chase and the Farallons, but that is something that can be expected off of San Francisco, and the boat was steered into shoal water with breaking wave potential near a lee shore that was a rounding mark for a race. PFDs were somewhat of an issue and tethering was an issue, IMHO. Uncontrollable Urge got caught with critical gear (rudder) failure off a lee shore that is normally a lee shore, and didn't call for help until too late. PFDs in surf were an issue. Aegean ran into a rocky shore, apparently with the crew asleep and the boat on autopilot. 

Possible take-aways--

Many PFDs don't perform well in rough water. (It didn't help that the professional skipper of LSC was wearing a belt pack inflatable -- in high seas, winds, and breaking waves against a lee shore.)

Pretty close to 100% of the west coast is a lee shore, and very often a hostile one. 

Many boats are not set up to survive a steering failure in active wind and wave conditions, and lee shores can loom up very rapidly. 

Many crew are not set up to stay on board, even in unfriendly weather or poor visibility (tethering).

"Normalization of risk" or complacency or pressure to cut corners or reluctance to call for help, particularly for racers -- these are deadly mofos.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

See, here's another image of Randi wearing a PFD that lacks thigh or crotch straps and probably wouldn't be good in a surf on a rocky shore:


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Oh great. Thanks for inflating the whole page RG.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Disclaimer: I have never raced in SoCal, not a member of their YRA, and I don't think I've even had a drunken barroom conversation with a SoCal racer. 
At first glance, I was thinking the USCG was doing a category inflation but when I look at the tracks of the race, they are going pretty far out. They encountered 30kt winds on windward side of the islands which was similar to what I experienced further north off of the Channel Islands. Perhaps it raises this race to the level of a Cat 2. The "Run for the Border", "MDR - Ensenada" and that July 4th "MDR-SD" race are all inside the islands and probably are an honest Cat 3. My problem with raising the Category levels is the YRA then goes in and modifies them downwards. So, our Cat 1 ocean races here in NorCal are really Cat 2½. The growth in requirements really hit in the pocket book. For example, a full set of SOLAS flares that are now required, will set you back some $700. We are getting priced out of the racing gig altogether. I also have a problem with the MOB and EMRUDD demonstrations. Those will add a couple of hundred bucks to our annual certificates&#8230; Then add in the costs of hauls and rudder surveys&#8230; our sport will be priced out of reach of us Corinthians and sailing will become a spectator sport like it is in Europe.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

smackdaddy said:


> *"yacht's emergency steering shall be constructed to the same or greater strength standard as required for the yacht's primary steering and that can be deployed in any weather condition".*
> 
> ...Emergency steering that is as strong or stronger than the original? Is that really possible?
> 
> ....


I have no idea of what they are talking about except if it is that steel bar that you use when the wheel stops working. Of course, that does nothing if the problem has to do with a broken rudder.

I agree with you, it is not very bright to think that an emergency rudder can be as strong as the one permanently fixed on the boat.

What strikes me as odd in all that is why anyone (among the racers) stopped to pull them out of trouble? Normally the lost time is discounted from the elapsed time of the race.

Also, as a safety precaution why do they not recommend that this type of races to be followed by support boats that can take care of any problem as an alternative to upgrading the class of the race letting out many boats out next year?

That's what they do on the around the Island race where more than 1700 boats of all types participate. There are always incidents and accidents, specially when it is windy but never had been a causality, not even in capsized multiulls. Help is always at hand.

Regards

Paulo


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

The "findings" section mentioned how the other racers who were at all nearby were well to leeward, and would have taken too long to work back to where Uncontrollable Urge was to be helpful. The Captain seems to have misjudged his danger and should have agreed to help from the USCG sooner.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

GeorgeB said:


>


It's so strange to see some GPS tracks running across the islands given the accuracy of GPS these days.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

paulk said:


> The "findings" section mentioned how the other racers who were at all nearby were well to leeward, and would have taken too long to work back to where Uncontrollable Urge was to be helpful. The Captain seems to have misjudged his danger and should have agreed to help from the USCG sooner.


My memory might be off, but when the Low Speed Chase report came out, it indicated that boats in the vicinity could and should have provided assistance, which probably was not as as likely for the Islands Race because of how close the vessel was to the lee shore. Then, when the sailing rules were updated in 2013, there was an emphasis on "rendering assistance" as a basic obligation and law of the sea. Perhaps this was also one of the changes to the RRS, I forget. Anyway, it definitely was stressed in a class I took that it is incumbent on sailors to help, provided their assistance does not put them in harm's way, which is a hard one to gauge. Just read about the successful rescue of Solid Air's skipper during the Bermuda One-Two race. You can feel the conflict from the rescuer when the call for assistance came in, but he very likely saved that person's life in that situation, resulting in no tragic post situation report to mull over...


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

gamayun said:


> It's so strange to see some GPS tracks running across the islands given the accuracy of GPS these days.


These tracks are not from the boat's onboard GPS systems, but from a satellite tracking system such as YellowBrick. The satellite tracking systems don't report positions continuously, but at some set time interval. Then it just draws a straight line to represent the travel that occurred during that time interval between reports. Also the trackers don't always succeed in getting their signal out, so it would be possible for the tracking system to miss several position reports, and then just draw a straight line between the last known position and the next known position. These lines don't necessarily represent where the boat actually sailed....


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## piclarke (Nov 19, 2001)

Perhaps it is time that all Cat 0 - Cat 1 -Cat 2 Off shore races additionally carry a parachute anchor and rode for your area..

If they had off had a parachute anchor with a inspected boat builder certified Samson post then all arguments would not have transpired as they would have had the time stated to be rescued.

What is a parachute anchor.

*New Zealand Maritime law now requires that boats venturing into the open seas must carry a Para Sea Anchor as part of the safety equipment on board. Plus a SSB Radio. Race organisers require 2 certified first aid 1 with advanced certification crew or 1 First aid cert crew and a registered medical GP. as crew for each boat.*

Not just a sound investment - but a life saver.

*Parachute Anchor.*

A large underwater parachute manufactured from high strength materials, impervious to sea water and resistant to wear.

The Sea Anchor is operated when deployed over the vessels bow, where it opens beneath the oceans surface. Its resistance brings the vessels head to sea, providing stability and safety.

*Providing Self Sufficiency* 
A Sea Anchor provides a skipper with a self-sufficiency that equips them with security, peace of mind and the confidence to take on the challenging crisis that is happening to them .
*
Safety *

Numb from fatigue, a sailor can place himself and his crew in severe danger. This is when the Sea Anchor comes into its own. Set the Sea Anchor, rest, get the brain back in working order and live to fight another day / night . Beating into heavy seas places wear and tear upon your boat and crew. Deploy a Sea Anchor and wait for better conditions.

*Drift control*

A Sea Anchor prevents drift when deployed enabling you to keep on station / the water mass night and day until conditions improve or until help arrives..
Many boats are lost when, initially disabled, they drift out of control and run aground. A Sea Anchor forces the bow back into the seas and keeps you off the rocks / shoals / bars / sand banks / danger zones*until help arrives.*

*Stabilisation*

With sails down or engine off, a vessel loses much stability sideways! A Sea Anchor, forcing the bow back into the seas, restores stability while you bail, pump, rest or repair.

*Finding land safely*

Making a landfall by night is difficult and many vessels have hit reefs or rocks in the hours of darkness. Deploy a Sea Anchor and wait to enter port by the light of day or until help arrives..


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