# Getting *Him* Interested in the Details



## Donna_F

I see the irony, believe me. I constantly see inquiries from men on how to get female partners interested in sailing. My question is how to get a *male* partner more involved.

Or, maybe I should just shut up and be happy. You can tell me that. I won't be offended.

Here's my situation:

It's not that John doesn't like sailing. He does. In fact, this past Saturday we only had one day to sail and he dragged me out of bed at the crack of dawn to drive down to Rock Hall (we live in SE Pennsylvania) where we keep our boat. OK, it was 0830, but still. Anyway, winds were forecast as favorable for most of the afternoon and he was eager to get out so sailing is not the problem. It's the details and nuances that I can't get him interested in.

John's boating background: Former Electrician's Mate in USCG. No prior sailing experience before we met.

My boating background: USCG Auxiliary coxswain and instructor. ASA and USPS courses. I owned a 22-foot sailboat when we met.

John's responsibilities on our boat: Engine and electrical system monitoring and maintenance. Beer.

My responsibilities on our boat: Everything else: Navigator, communications, provisioning, cook, trip planning, cruise director, list maker, project manager, etc.

I decide where we're going and do the DR plots on the paper charts, research destinations, plan the routes on Polar Navy, monitor the weather starting three days before we leave, plan meals, make marina reservations if required, choose anchorages, etc. Basically, I do everything that doesn't have to do with the engine or the electrical system although I do ask questions about those so that I know what's what. John has never used the VHF radio, hands me the handheld to turn it off. When we participate in club sails and get hailed, he offers to take over the helm so I can "do my thing" on the radio. He spent his Coast Guard years in the engine room where he never had to do anything but keep the engines running and now it appears that he's doing the same on our boat.

Not that I don't appreciate his skills with a 30-year old diesel engine and I let him know that. Not that I don't have loads of fun doing what I do (OK, I do hate food shopping. I get shopping cart road rage - but I love cooking and do that well). When we decided to buy a larger boat John left the research and decisions and questions for the broker up to me and happily just signed the check. He has no complaints about our boat choice.

As I type this I guess I really don't have it so bad, but on a practical level, I do want him to learn how to read a chart, use the radio, know the basic rules of the road. How do I get him interested in at least that? He can stay the hell out of the galley. I'll give him that as a trade off especially after one hot weekend he routed around in the ice box in the dark for beer and left the meat out on the counter - all night. He felt awful. I told him it wasn't the end of the world, just the end of the meat. I now take a separate cooler for beverages.

But reading a chart and using the radio I see as somewhat of a safety issue. I'm forever telling the women in my classes that they should know what to do when their male partners fall overboard/have a heart attack/whatever, know how to use the radio and get the boat to a safe harbor, learn how to read the weather. Somehow I think a different approach will be needed for a man. I try to explain sailing maneuvers as I make them. For example, he now knows the proper procedure for passing/crossing another vessel from me (intentionally) muttering loudly to myself as a powerboat comes barreling our way when we're under sail. When we tack I exaggerate looking all around before changing course to make sure we're not tacking into another boat. Now he looks. In the beginning he never turned into the wake from a passing powerboat and I'd damn near get whiplash from the rolling. After I explained the stress that puts on the rigging and potential cost of replacing it, he now turns into the wake.

I adjusted early on to our different approach to navigation and I'm OK with that. John always sails buoy to buoy. I know that the buoy we need to get to to turn into the channel to Rock Hall is below a certain cut in the treeline. I can see the treeline way before I can see the buoy. The first time we came across the Bay from Baltimore and I told him to point the bow at a particular cut in the trees for two hours, it didn't work for him. He kept asking where the next buoy was so I finally directed him across the bay buoy by buoy and using compass headings. When he tacks, he doesn't plan beyond the current tack. When I tack I plan the next two or three tacks in my head (barring any interference).

The man's an industrial electrician and troubleshooter for crying out loud so he isn't stupid but I swear sometimes it's like having male boat fluff on board. Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate what a fantastic position I'm in with someone who cheerily just asks where we're going, how long we'll be gone and what should he wear. Not to mention the fact that when we're at anchor and a storm rolls through at 0300 he's happy to get up and close up the boat (although the last time I had to remind him that when the lightning lit up the night sky that everyone else in the anchorage could see him standing on deck naked).

I don't want him to take over everything I do, I just want him to know how to do what I do. I want him to be able to use the radio when I'm busy or know what the italicized "h" on the chart means. If it wasn't for safety, I'd be more than happy with my boat fluff.

Or, maybe I'm just sulking because *I* would like to be the boat fluff every once in a while.


----------



## junkrig

Looking for a replacement? I can do engine, electricals, beer, piloting... lots of stuff. My wife would just as soon never leave the farm and her cattle.


----------



## hellosailor

DR, it sounds like he just wants to kick back and relax and not et all cerebral about the details.

Some folks like to get in the car and take a road trip, others like tohang their head out the window and sniff. Not drive.

So I have to ask, are you looking for someone else to carry some of the load? Or...could you just let him stick his head out the window and sniff, and everybody be happy?


----------



## Donna_F

*Not looking to replace*



junkrig said:


> Looking for a replacement?


Not in this lifetime. I want him to learn how to read a chart and be able to use the radio in case of an emergency!

There's usually only two of us on the boat and when we have guests, they have no sailing experience. *I'd* like to stick my head out the window and let my ears flap in the wind every now and then! Metaphorically speaking.


----------



## junkrig

You know what they say: the perfect is the enemy of the good. Sounds like you got it pretty good. In an emergency he might have more stored up in there than you think.


----------



## Donna_F

hellosailor said:


> Some folks like to get in the car and take a road trip, others like tohang their head out the window and sniff. Not drive.
> 
> So I have to ask, are you looking for someone else to carry some of the load? Or...could you just let him stick his head out the window and sniff, and everybody be happy?


So what I hear you saying is the next time we're sailing down a relatively empty river and it's hot and I feel an urge to stretch out in the cockpit and...even out my tan lines and feel the gentle breeze on my skin...I can't because I have to keep watch so that he can stick his head out the window? 

Seriously, we're sailing and life partners and I'm in no way looking for a replacement. We take turns at the helm but I would like some indication that I can feel a little confident that he knows how to call for help if needed and give our location.


----------



## Donna_F

junkrig said:


> In an emergency he might have more stored up in there than you think.


I hope you're right.


----------



## junkrig

Seriously, I'd give a lot if I could get my wife to give half a sh**. I have to drag her kicking and screaming.


----------



## wingNwing

Donna, I don't have any sage advice to give because we're equal partners on our boat with approx. equal skill levels. Okay, Dan enjoys sail trim and is much better at it than me; while I love navigation and am better at it than him ... but each of us has at least minimal competence in each others' specialty. Does your guy say *why* he isn't interested in those other boat skills? Bored? Won't ever need to do it? You're so good at it he doesn't feel the need? Hearing problems so can't distinguish words on the VHF? etc etc [I can't even imagine other possibilities]


----------



## wingNwing

PS - I have no idea how I got the waving flag under my signature, this is the first time it appeared.


----------



## MikeWhy

You managed OK before having someone along to watch over the diesel, stand radio watch, and share your company over a meal.

How about just adding an autopilot and sharing the deck watch? It conflicts with his beers, but ... Is that the major issue? You mentioned it more than once.


----------



## Donna_F

wingNwing said:


> Does your guy say *why* he isn't interested in those other boat skills? Bored? Won't ever need to do it? You're so good at it he doesn't feel the need? Hearing problems so can't distinguish words on the VHF? etc etc [I can't even imagine other possibilities]


No, he doesn't say but you did land on one possibility: from working in industrial environments he does have some hearing loss. That might explain his reluctance to deal with the radio. Although when we were out last weekend he did show an interest (for the first time) each time I switched the channel to listen to a securite message.

Normally he just follows the electronic course that I plot. Before we left the marina last weekend I sat him down with the paper chart and showed him the larger picture, which he admitted was helpful to see.

I'll just give it time. Maybe he's working up to it in his own way.

(no waving flag that I can see)


----------



## tdw

Until I got to the bit about shopping .... I mean really , its to be hoped he's decent eye candy and is good in the sack ... 

I know I know, that was unacceptably sexist on my part but I simply don't understand how someone can get into this sailing business for the long term and not feel the need to at least learn the ropes.


----------



## Donna_F

MikeWhy said:


> You managed OK before having someone along to watch over the diesel, stand radio watch, and share your company over a meal.


A couple of hours at a stretch in a 22-footer with an outboard in only calm weather is vastly different than the type of sailing and distances that we're doing now. But point taken.



MikeWhy said:


> How about just adding an autopilot and sharing the deck watch? It conflicts with his beers, but ... Is that the major issue? You mentioned it more than once.


Nope. Beer is not relevant. Neither of us drink alcohol unless we're either at anchor or in a slip. When we're at anchor I limit myself so I can be the designated driver in an emergency (my choice. I just do it).


----------



## rockDAWG

hahahah......It is a good and funny read. . . . . . . . . . Thanks for giggle. 

I don't know. It seems you make it more complicated than it needs to be. Sailing is for enjoyment with minimal stress, the boat moves so slow there is plenty time for adjustment. With my wife, when docking, I usually ask her at the helm and I am at the bow with dock line and hook. No yelling, just hand signals. No need to stress out. If it fails, just go around the dock one more time.

Now I have to look up what is _h_ means on chart. All I can think of is little Henry 

Oh dear, how should I say "3" over the radio Is it three or TREE? Never mind, I use the cell phone.


----------



## Donna_F

tdw said:


> I mean really , its to be hoped he's decent eye candy and is good in the sack ...


Oh yes! 



tdw said:


> I know I know, that was unacceptably sexist on my part...


Takes *much* more than that to offend me.



tdw said:


> ...but I simply don't understand how someone can get into this sailing business for the long term and not feel the need to at least learn the ropes.


He knows some of the ropes, just not the ones I want him to. Which might ultimately be my problem. I don't want to come across as a nag because in so many other areas (*boating* related, tdw!) he's wonderful, so I've never brought any of this up. But I stand by my feeling that he should know how to read a chart and use the radio. I'm not letting go of that argument.

I feel like I've gone through Sailnet Group Therapy.


----------



## rockDAWG

DRFerron said:


> Nope. Beer is not relevant. Neither of us drink alcohol unless we're either at anchor or in a slip. When we're at anchor I limit myself so I can be the designated driver in an emergency (my choice. I just do it).


Never understand why alcohol are so popular with boating. What pleasure does it bring with the excessive drink (more than 2). Somehow i have never been able to experience it. but not sure I want to.

Our society seems accept it as a norm, i get used to dealing with it.


----------



## wingNwing

DRFerron said:


> But I stand by my feeling that he should know how to read a chart and use the radio.


Um, yeah. I agree that a minimum. VHF anyway, can you get him to use a chartplotter? But knowing how to use the radio is important maybe not for some catastrophic reason like imagining a scenario where you've fallen overboard. Maybe something very ordinary, like someone hailed your boat on the VHF while he was at the helm and you were in the head? Happens!


----------



## Donna_F

rockDAWG said:


> hahahah......It is a good and funny read. . . . . . . . . . Thanks for giggle.
> 
> I don't know. It seems you make it more complicated than it needs to be. Sailing is for enjoyment with minimal stress, the boat moves so slow there is plenty time for adjustment. With my wife, when docking, I usually ask her at the helm and I am at the bow with dock line and hook. No yelling, just hand signals. No need to stress out. If it fails, just go around the dock one more time.


I said we have a problem docking? Believe me, docking (in any form) is not the issue.



rockDAWG said:


> Oh dear, how should I say "3" over the radio Is it three or TREE? Never mind, I use the cell phone.


Jiminy Cricket on a crutch! I JUST WANT TO SAIL TOPLESS FOR A HALF HOUR WITHOUT FEAR OF GETTING T-BONED! And why is it mostly MEN who answered??!!

And, dammit, there's a mosquito buzzing around my head that I can't kill and my cat brought me yet ANOTHER dead mouse. :hothead

I love this forum.


----------



## tdw

DRFerron said:


> I said we have a problem docking? Believe me, docking (in any form) is not the issue.
> 
> Jiminy Cricket on a crutch! I JUST WANT TO SAIL TOPLESS FOR A HALF HOUR WITHOUT FEAR OF GETTING T-BONED! And why is it mostly MEN who answered??!!
> 
> And, dammit, there's a mosquito buzzing around my head that I can't kill and my cat brought me yet ANOTHER dead mouse. :hothead
> 
> I love this forum.


now if there really was a god , cats would kill mosquitos not mice and birds .. 

ps - is it possible that the t-boning and the topless sailing might be in some way connected ?

Why so many men (plus one small furry rodent) ? Guess us sailors are simply sharin' carin' kind of guys.


----------



## Donna_F

tdw said:


> ps - is it possible that the t-boning and the topless sailing might be in some way connected ?


I've never actually done it. It was just that one day I thought I would but then I wondered how I'd make sure we didn't tack right into another boat if I was stretched out on the cockpit seat.



tdw said:


> Why so many men (plus one small furry rodent) ? Guess us sailors are simply sharin' carin' kind of guys.


Right.


----------



## hellosailor

"And why is it mostly MEN who answered??!!"
Eh? You never noticed this is a sailing forum, and sailors are, ah, mostly men?

Women tend to stay ashore and nest and not go play in a hostile environment like the sea. That's just an observation, not a judgement.

Cats, mice, mosquitoes, t-bones...Sail further offshore in heavier weather, and all those problems will go away. (VBG)


----------



## Donna_F

hellosailor said:


> "And why is it mostly MEN who answered??!!"
> Eh? You never noticed this is a sailing forum, and sailors are, ah, mostly men?
> (VBG)


So the "herSailnet" section was really started so that men could roam around in it?

That grin _better_ be big.


----------



## tdw

DRFerron said:


> So the "herSailnet" section was really started so that men could roam around in it?
> 
> That grin _better_ be big.


me and my barge pole are keeping a safe distance ..


----------



## MarkSailor

DRFerron said:


> So what I hear you saying is the next time we're sailing down a relatively empty river and it's hot and I feel an urge to stretch out in the cockpit and...even out my tan lines and feel the gentle breeze on my skin...I can't because I have to keep watch so that he can stick his head out the window?
> 
> Seriously, we're sailing and life partners and I'm in no way looking for a replacement. We take turns at the helm but I would like some indication that I can feel a little confident that he knows how to call for help if needed and give our location.


DR,

Have you considerd showing this thread to him? Perhaps he is so taken with your abilities that he is clueless (y-chromosome disability) about your unspoken wish for him to take a different role? This may be more a communication than a sailing issue.

P.S.: If all else fails, consider bribery -- "If I could just relax for a while this afternoon, I'd have the energy to make those crab cakes (or whatever) that are your favorites for dinner." Just a thought.


----------



## Donna_F

MarkSailor said:


> DR,
> 
> Have you considerd showing this thread to him? Perhaps he is so taken with your abilities that he is clueless (y-chromosome disability) about your unspoken wish for him to take a different role? This may be more a communication than a sailing issue.


Thanks Mark. Writing it all out here (and some sleep) put it in a different perspective. I am going to talk to him about it. I'm far, far from being the next Ellen MacArthur or Dawn Riley but it is nice to think that he thinks me competent enough that he doesn't have to worry about anything.


----------



## bljones

DR, I think the challenge you have is that one of the reasons he married you, and you married him, is because of your shared calm, cool, confident, complementary competence.
Maybe if you want him to pick up some of your slack, you also need to offer to pick up some of his?
Something my wife and I do is have what we call "role reversal cruises" a couple of times a season. I work the foredeck, she handles the helm when departing/docking, she plots course, I handle jib sheets, etc.

BTW, 
How would you feel if he wrote, "My wife loves to sail, but she doesn't like to get greasy! I always get stuck making sure the engine runs, the lines are bled, the oil is changed, chasing down shorts in the 30 year old electrical system, while she's plotting courses and talking on the radio and manning the helm, and she's always threatening to get topless while I am down in the bilge! Worst of all, she always hides the beer under the meat!



Nuther BTW... topless sailing is fun, but an autopilot comes in handy. Chicka-bow, chicka-bow-bow.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Ok, so you're both former CG service members. Even a wrench-toting knuckledragger like your husband should realize that safety is paramount. That's one of the primary missions of the Coast Guard- safe boating.

So why don't you present it to him as a "safety of ship" issue? Tell him that you don't feel safe being the one carrying the bulk of the knowledge because if something happens to you, he'll be limited in his ability to help you because he can't navigate safely or in a timely fashion, or because he can't operate the VHF correctly.

My opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid for it), is that yes, he should step up and learn _a little_ more. A little, to help keep you both safe, but otherwise you have little to complain about.

You are a Type-A personality, and he's not. You enjoy all the long-range planning and navigating, and the mental exercise that it provides and he doesn't. He just wants to relax or tinker. I wouldn't expect him to be like you, but it is fair to expect him to beef up his understanding of navigation, boat handling and communications to the point where you're both safe.

Edit- I apologize for intruding into HerSailnet, I didn't realize the thread was stored here until after I replied.


----------



## Donna_F

BubbleheadMd said:


> Ok, so you're both former CG service members.


He is former regular CG. I'm Auxiliary (current).



BubbleheadMd said:


> So why don't you present it to him as a "safety of ship" issue? Tell him that you don't feel safe being the one carrying the bulk of the knowledge because if something happens to you, he'll be limited in his ability to help you because he can't navigate safely or in a timely fashion, or because he can't operate the VHF correctly.


Gonna. Just have to figure out my approach. I'm rarely confrontational. Neither of us are, him less so than me. I have to remember that I've been teaching boating theory for ten years and he's new to it, even if he now has a couple of seasons on water under his belt.



BubbleheadMd said:


> My opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid for it), is that yes, he should step up and learn _a little_ more. A little, to help keep you both safe, but otherwise you have little to complain about.


I'm done complaining. It was more an impulsive vent to strangers who share my love of sailing. None of our close friends sail so they'd have no idea what I'm talking about or why it's important. I noticed their glazed eyes long ago so I stopped talking about sailing shortly after I bought my first boat. It's why I started our blog, so that I could share our stories with John's family (who live far away but who _are_ interested) and our friends can read them if they want (or not) and not feel trapped in a conversation they have no interest in.



BubbleheadMd said:


> You are a Type-A personality, and he's not.


This one, you're waaaay off the mark on. I'm so far from being Type A that I'm in a foreign alphabet. John doesn't even have a letter (until he starts venting about industrial SOPs and clueless coworkers). It's just that there are things that I feel strongly about because I've been involved with them. Boating incidents are one. Another one is hiking. I belonged to a land search and rescue team for ten years. Saw enough dead bodies and grieving families to have strong feelings about safety in that realm, too. When John was out west for work and decided to take an unplanned hike in a canyon in hot weather and with no water, I let him have it for days.



BubbleheadMd said:


> You enjoy all the long-range planning and navigating, and the mental exercise that it provides and he doesn't. He just wants to relax or tinker. I wouldn't expect him to be like you, but it is fair to expect him to beef up his understanding of navigation, boat handling and communications to the point where you're both safe.


I do enjoy the planning. Spreading out a set of charts and tools on my drafting table in the winter with a cup of tea is relaxing and gets me through the cold months. Then when we run the course I planned, I'm thrilled when my calculations work out. John loves troubleshooting and he's good at it. So yes, he enjoys tinkering.



BubbleheadMd said:


> Edit- I apologize for intruding into HerSailnet, I didn't realize the thread was stored here until after I replied.


No biggie. Maybe there aren't enough women with the same issue to offer an opinion. That's fine, too. I just needed to vent and usually women are more understanding about the venting impulse.  That's why I posted it in herSailNet.


----------



## blt2ski

AAh yes, the 'OL'd "how to get other half more interested?"

Lets see, wife will not do radio, wish she would for above reasons, ie mid to high range of hearing in left ear is no more, right ear is 25% or so gone. Radio is a bunch of babble with no words to be heard......he could have the same issue. HA works/helps, but still not perfect.

She will not read the chart, for that matter, can not read a map, or program the GPS in her car. No GPS on the boat........... BUT gets all flustered if I take the boat somewhere by myself. I end up driving her places for the most part. Some folks have NO idea which is N, S E or W! not matter how you explain it, just not part of there being!

She does drive ok when she figures out how to operate a tiller.

Then again, if he was a mechanic in the CG, he may very well have spent his time in the bottom of the boat, not at the top, so is VERY uncomfortable doing the things you may have been doing, does not want to mess up, male ego's are easier bruised than one thinks! He realizes you do things better, so he lets you......on the other hand, is he doing the all over tan line/GCB part of the equation for your pleasure?

Not sure this helps at all, BUT, at least he was up sunday morning. My wife was, lets go sailing sunday, try to get her up, did not happen, no sailing sunday, would rather work in the yard. Then gets pissed when I do not find it to be relaxing and enjoyable! Then again, ask me what kind of biz I own, and one will find out, working in the yard is not too big a deal, just not relaxing, too much like "WORK"!!!!! She also mentioned that me taking care of the boat 99.999999999999.....heck, lets just say 100% is fine by her! Wonder if whe will take care of the yard?!?!?!?! ok, so picking up the piles is not too bad.....

I've found over 20 somethign years of marriage, some things are 50-50, others 100-0, or 0-100. Or somewhere in the middle. Enjoy the 50-50, and realize, the 100-0 or 0-100 is the way somethings will be, do not complain, as it could be the 50-50 that makes the marriage best, could be 100-0, and life is pure hell and a hand basket. Ask me how I know this? yes #2 is way way way way.......way way better than #1, She would not go on a boat if my or her life depended upon it. Your #1 is WAY better than my #1!

Marty


----------



## Donna_F

bljones said:


> DR, I think the challenge you have is that one of the reasons he married you, and you married him, is because of your shared calm, cool, confident, complementary competence.


Aren't you the alliterative flatterer.  We are kind of pleased that we've never had a fight. When I was younger I dated one man whose head I threw a chair at. Those days are gone thank goodness.



bljones said:


> Maybe if you want him to pick up some of your slack, you also need to offer to pick up some of his?
> 
> Something my wife and I do is have what we call "role reversal cruises" a couple of times a season. I work the foredeck, she handles the helm when departing/docking, she plots course, I handle jib sheets, etc.


We do switch most roles. Just not the ones I'm venting about. And again, all I want is for him to be able to do them, not take them on full time.



bljones said:


> BTW, How would you feel if he wrote, "My wife loves to sail, but she doesn't like to get greasy!...


That argument would work well if not for the fact that I helped my dad restore two classic cars and got plenty greasy.  Besides, I'm the first woman he dated who was a card-carrying Craftsman Club member and who asked for a bench grinder for Christmas.



bljones said:


> ...I always get stuck making sure the engine runs, the lines are bled, the oil is changed, chasing down shorts in the 30 year old electrical system,...


He TOLD me he wanted to do that! I can't be faulted for letting him do what he wants! And he does show me what he's doing with the engine or the batteries or whatever, he just wants to do it himself. He especially takes pride in his electrical work.



bljones said:


> ...while she's plotting courses and talking on the radio and manning the helm, and she's always threatening to get topless while I am down in the bilge! Worst of all, she always hides the beer under the meat!


Hmph. I set the meat on top of the beer bottles so that it wouldn't end up floating in water after the ice melted. So there. 



bljones said:


> Nuther BTW... topless sailing is fun, but an autopilot comes in handy. Chicka-bow, chicka-bow-bow.


You're the second person to mention autopilots. We don't feel the need for one for coastal cruising. Crossing an ocean, sure, but not when we're in spitting distance of land. Besides, the previous owner tried to install one and couldn't get it to work for whatever reason. We disassembled the parts that were left.

Any urge I once had to get topless is long gone.


----------



## MikeWhy

I'd recommend modifying the Home page hotlist to not include posts from herSailNet. I don't normally notice such things as tiny font forum headers. For sure, I would na dream of offering clear, simple, obvious solutions when womens sets out their bowls of milk and get to talkin'. A hisSailNet obviously would never work. I can be bemused by idle chitchat of bras and bikini lines, but nobody but nobody should have to suffer to hear the details of my shaving habits. Come to think of it, consider it more of a plea than a recommendation.


----------



## Donna_F

blt2ski said:


> Then again, if he was a mechanic in the CG, he may very well have spent his time in the bottom of the boat, not at the top, so is VERY uncomfortable doing the things you may have been doing, does not want to mess up, male ego's are easier bruised than one thinks!


You're most likely correct.



blt2ski said:


> Your #1 is WAY better than my #1!


Nah, don't make that comparison, Marty. You've been married for over 20 years for a reason.


----------



## Ajax_MD

I wouldn't discount the value of an autopilot even for coastal cruising.

My old boat came with an old Raymarine tiller pilot and it's been very valuable. Then again, I singlehand a lot. I dunno, maybe it's my breath or something.


----------



## blt2ski

Yeah, I have been married for over 20 yrs, 18 to spouse #1, 6 to spouse #2. #1 we will not disCUSS!


----------



## Donna_F

MikeWhy said:


> I'd recommend modifying the Home page hotlist to not include posts from herSailNet. ... Come to think of it, consider it more of a plea than a recommendation.


Mike,

Are you talking about the list of topics under the *General Interest Forums* heading? I think you'd do better PMing one of the moderators for that request.


----------



## MikeWhy

Nah. It's just not that important. I would think, though, that you posted here rather than general discussions for a reason. I still have a permanent shadow of a furrow in my brow from decades of not understanding woman talk. I hadn't noticed where we were until you mentioned it. (I didn't even *know* there was a herSailNet before the Bras talk.) Really, I'm just trying to respect your space.


----------



## hellosailor

DR, what's good for the goose is supposedly good for the gander.

I'm all in favor of keeping men out of the "she" forum, as long as we remember that women are jinxes on boats, so we'll have to keep them out of the men's forums. Of course, then we'll need a third forum where they're allowed to mingle, but...

There are actually FIVE genders in humans. Male, female, and three types of hermaphrodites (yes, three). So we'd need five gender-selective sections, and a number of restricted mixers (or perhaps just one rainbow room?) and then again...if you start with five and allow for the transgendered as well, that's a lot of restricted forum sections we'd need. Must be a lot of interesting iconography on the bathroom doors in Sweden and Thailand, huh?

Until Sailnet gives all genders equal footing, I, as an anonymous member of one of them, will not recognize any gender lines here at all, and I'll use whichever head has the nicest facilities.  Or shortest line.

Five, yes, and last I'd heard, one in every thousand was naturally neither male nor female, so the odds are you've known and spoken to _at least _one hermaphrodite in your time, and that there are several (gasp!) in this forum.

Back to the subject at hand...Have you tried bribery? "Plot this course without hitting anything, and I'll buy you a fresh pint at the microbrewery when we dock."

Unless the guy thinks Bud in a tin is really beer, in which case a bit more work may be required.


----------



## Donna_F

hellosailor said:


> DR, what's good for the goose is supposedly good for the gander.
> 
> I'm all in favor of keeping men out of the "she" forum, as long as we remember that women are jinxes on boats, so we'll have to keep them out of the men's forums. Of course, then we'll need a third forum where they're allowed to mingle, but...


I don't think that I said men couldn't respond, I was commenting on the fact that I posted in a forum set up for women and I received only one or two female responses. I'm willing to bet that if I had posted my original rant in the General Discussion area, someone would have shouted at me to take it to herSailNet!



hellosailor said:


> ...and I'll use whichever head has the nicest facilities.  Or shortest line.


Let us know how that works out. 



hellosailor said:


> Back to the subject at hand...Have you tried bribery? "Plot this course without hitting anything, and I'll buy you a fresh pint at the microbrewery when we dock."
> 
> Unless the guy thinks Bud in a tin is really beer, in which case a bit more work may be required.


I turned him on to microbrews and I'm not a beer drinker. He only drinks the swill once or twice a month when he's with his football buddies (who in seven years I've never met. No girls allowed).

I've tried _Lysistrata_-type bribery in the past when I wanted him to get a prostate exam. We were both miserable and he still hasn't had the exam.


----------



## AdamLein

Donna, it sounds like John has a good thing going for him and doesn't feel a strong need to change it. I wouldn't force it too much, as it seems you've mostly both got a good thing going.

However, I think you're absolutely right to put your foot down when it comes to things like the VHF and the paper charts. Here's my thoughts on those issues:

VHF: do you have a DSC radio hooked up to your GPS? If not, get one and set it up. Then John doesn't need to know how to operate the radio; he just needs to know how to hold a button down for five seconds in an emergency. Yes it would be good if he could tell the coast guard what's wrong, but I'm guessing that in a pinch he would figure out how to push the PTT button (the radio should automatically go to 16 after he pushes distress anyway).

Beyond that, he might just be intimidated about using the radio. I certainly was until I got a cert, and still am a little. What if I say something stupid and look silly in front of all the other boaters? Men worry about stuff like this.

Charts. These are also intimidating, but for different reasons. Working with charts is, to me, one of the fun things about boating. It's fun for the same reason that puzzles are fun; it just works a certain part of my brain. If John doesn't see it that way, it might be hard to get him motivated about charts.

Unfortunately, while you can probably teach him to use the chartplotter in an emergency ("Stay on the blue part. This is what the numbers mean.") if he doesn't practice it, he won't have a good feel for it.


----------



## Donna_F

AdamLein said:


> VHF: do you have a DSC radio hooked up to your GPS? If not, get one and set it up. Then John doesn't need to know how to operate the radio; he just needs to know how to hold a button down for five seconds in an emergency. Yes it would be good if he could tell the coast guard what's wrong, but I'm guessing that in a pinch he would figure out how to push the PTT button (the radio should automatically go to 16 after he pushes distress anyway).


We don't have the radio connected to GPS. We still use the old, non-DSC radio that came with the boat when we bought it. Since it broadcasts and receives, it isn't at the top of my list to replace. But you make a good argument for possibly updating it and making that this year's boat show purchase.

I had a DSC radio for the 22-footer but when I gave the boat away, I let them have the radio, too.

Besides the fixed radio, I keep two hand held radios on board.



AdamLein said:


> Charts. These are also intimidating, but for different reasons. Working with charts is, to me, one of the fun things about boating. It's fun for the same reason that puzzles are fun; it just works a certain part of my brain. If John doesn't see it that way, it might be hard to get him motivated about charts.
> 
> Unfortunately, while you can probably teach him to use the chartplotter in an emergency ("Stay on the blue part. This is what the numbers mean.") if he doesn't practice it, he won't have a good feel for it.


At the risk of starting an entirely new war, we don't use a traditional chartplotter. We use a netbook with a GPS puck. John knows how to get the navigation software to talk to the GPS and knows what I mean when I tell him to follow the dark blue line (the course I plotted) and to give me a heads up when he approaches the blue area.

Where we differ is that I can navigate using the electronic chart without the pre-loaded course as well as with only the paper chart. John sees having the plotted course as something of a safety net and there have been times when I have quickly plotted a course for him to follow (he looked extremely uncomfortable without it) when I would have been fine.

 Since baseball doesn't start back up until tomorrow night (Go Phils!), after dinner tonight might be a good time to talk about learning how to use the radio. I'll save the charts for another day.

I made a tropical-themed dinner to soften him up to agree to go on a BVI charter next year (as it turned out he was all for it). What food goes with "Honey, I'd _really_ like you to learn how to use the marine radio?"


----------



## AdamLein

Okay, so, I would definitely recommend going with the new radio as a safety feature.

If we're still talking only minimum safety requirements, then I would suggest that John should know how to set the anchor, including reading the depth sounder. Since you're talking about sailing in inland waters, if something should happen to you, there's really no need for John to navigate to any set point. He should be able to call for help and to get the boat stopped. Help can get to you a lot faster than you can get to it, anyway.

Being able to read a chart would be super helpful in this case, but fundamentally not necessary.


----------



## Donna_F

AdamLein said:


> Okay, so, I would definitely recommend going with the new radio as a safety feature.
> 
> If we're still talking only minimum safety requirements, then I would suggest that John should know how to set the anchor, including reading the depth sounder.


Oh, he definitely knows how to do all that. He isn't a _complete_ beginner, it's just that he has never used the radio or paid much attention to the charts other than getting the big picture of where we'll be sailing on any given trip. He relies on me to use the radio and tell him where to point the boat. Situational awareness is also something I'm working on with him.



AdamLein said:


> Being able to read a chart would be super helpful in this case, but fundamentally not necessary.


Except to be able to tell rescuers our location if we aren't near a buoy that he can see.

We talked about it last night. I showed him the posts in this thread (which he got a kick out of). Then he yelled across the room "CG BALTIMORE! CG BALTIMORE! MAYDAY! MAYDAY! RADIO CHECK!" (I had told him about last week's radio check thread) and said to me "See? I know how to use the radio!"

It was a funny moment, but I did share my concerns and he agreed with me. That's all I can do.


----------



## wingNwing

Sounds like it isn't *quite* as bad as it seemed at first. You might consider writing a basic "******" for some of the common radio situations if you suspect the embarassment factor, and not the hearing loss factor, is motivating his discomfort. (Besides, writing up a couple of scripts is much cheaper than buying a new DSC radio if the old one is working. )


----------



## hellosailor

"and he agreed with me. That's all I can do. "

Well, if it goes no further....One day send him below for a beer and whatever will occupy him for five minutes. While he's below, slip into the lazerette and out of sight.

When he comes back topside to an empty boat....Hopefully the point will be made and you'll be forgien for making it so forcefully. Of course, if you hear "Whooppee!" before you climb out, that's quite another issue. <G>


----------



## Donna_F

wingNwing said:


> (Besides, writing up a couple of scripts is much cheaper than buying a new DSC radio if the old one is working. )


Yep. I have the CG radio stickers that have the scripts on them. We hand them out in our classes. Next time we're at the boat I'll have to make sure John knows where I keep it in the nav station. I assumed he knew.

Thanks!


----------



## wingNwing

<*amazed*> The CG has these pre-printed? I had to work 'em out for myself! NOW you tell me!


----------



## Donna_F

hellosailor said:


> "and he agreed with me. That's all I can do. "
> Of course, if you hear "Whooppee!" before you climb out, that's quite another issue. <G>


"quite another issue" indeed.


----------



## MikeWhy

DRFerron said:


> Where we differ is that I can navigate using the electronic chart without the pre-loaded course as well as with only the paper chart. John sees having the plotted course as something of a safety net and there have been times when I have quickly plotted a course for him to follow (he looked extremely uncomfortable without it) when I would have been fine.


How would it sit on you to have him skipper the entire trip, or just parts of, some days? (In the back of my mind, my question is whether the problem is entirely just him, or whether you or your role aboard plays some part.)

Charts and trip planning are simple enough that I think that isn't the issue. Same with the radio. It's the skipper's boat when (s)he's on deck.


----------



## Andrea Royer

There are some funny posts in this thread! :laugher

I'm kind of young and unmarried, so I know my situation isn't exactly the same, but I started dating my boyfriend six years ago after meeting at the University of TN. Naturally, growing up in Knoxville, he didn't have any sailing experience and only some experience on motor boats with friends. For our second date, I took him out on one of the UT Sailing Team's JY15's. Of course, the wind died when we hit the farthest point from the yacht club and we ended up sculling the boat for 45 minutes back to the docks. Needless to say, he hasn't expressed much interest in going out with me.


----------



## Donna_F

Andrea Royer said:


> There are some funny posts in this thread! :laugher
> 
> I'm kind of young and unmarried, so I know my situation isn't exactly the same, but I started dating my boyfriend six years ago after meeting at the University of TN. Naturally, growing up in Knoxville, he didn't have any sailing experience and only some experience on motor boats with friends. For our second date, I took him out on one of the UT Sailing Team's JY15's. Of course, the wind died when we hit the farthest point from the yacht club and we ended up sculling the boat for 45 minutes back to the docks. Needless to say, he hasn't expressed much interest in going out with me.


Well, I'm 44 but I don't consider that OLD.  And John and I aren't married either but we've been together 7 years. I have to say, nice move with getting your boyfriend out there and the wind conveniently dies.


----------



## Andrea Royer

Sorry, Donna! I've already had people call me "kiddo" and the like on here several time and feign hurt feelings when I asked about young sailors in yachting communities.

Yeah, he definitely wasn't impressed. But since I'm about to get a "real" sailboat (haha - I'm obviously partial to the more solid types that aren't trailed so easily) in the water and go live on it for awhile, I think he'll change his mind once he feels the power in bigger sails. And it's a little more fun to enjoy the heeling when you don't feel like you're going to capsize the boat.


----------



## Donna_F

MikeWhy said:


> How would it sit on you to have him skipper the entire trip, or just parts of, some days? (In the back of my mind, my question is whether the problem is entirely just him, or whether you or your role aboard plays some part.)


Fine by me. I think I understand what you mean. We share time at the helm pretty much equally whenever we sail. Someone else mentioned that he may just feel comfortable with my abilities (such as they are), which is flattering, but part of my personal philosophy is that as much as possible, if two people own the boat, both should know everything there is to know about its operation even if responsibilities are divided. I don't know everything about the engine, but I know how to check the oil, know what it sounds like when it's running correctly, keep up with the issues we've had and know the name of the mechanic who makes it hum  etc.



MikeWhy said:


> Charts and trip planning are simple enough that I think that isn't the issue. Same with the radio. It's the skipper's boat when (s)he's on deck.


Simple enough for some people and not others as I've found out teaching navigation. I've had classes where I've had to physically separate couples after they started to fight and one half gets impatient with the learning curve of the other.

Yes, it is the skipper's boat. And since both of our names are on the title, we're both legally responsible for the boat and the crew/passengers. Therefore, we should both know at least simple emergency procedures.

The more I respond to these posts, the more I conclude that I just need to be patient. I can't rush his comfort level.


----------



## MikeWhy

Donna, I was thinking more along the lines of allowing him to own responsibility for some trips, rather than continually deferring to you for decisions. I don't know him or his abilities at all, of course. He'll have to grow into the new roles, if that's what it takes.

In my daily life, I only manage to keep the waist line under control by delegating enough work to others so I can take mid-day bicycle rides. This only deepens my farmer's tan, but that's a different story.


----------



## WDS123

Donna,

Don't fret if he likes going buoy to buoy. 


He might be quitely thinking you are wandering all over the channel


----------



## Donna_F

WDSchock said:


> Donna,
> 
> Don't fret if he likes going buoy to buoy.
> He might be quitely thinking you are wandering all over the channel


HA! I didn't think of that. I can bring up the Polar Navy tracks to prove that I was NOT.


----------



## junkrig

WDSchock said:


> Donna,
> 
> Don't fret if he likes going buoy to buoy.
> 
> He might be quitely thinking you are wandering all over the channel


Let me second that. When Gloria and I leave here for her family home in North Dakota, 700-some miles away, she's thinking "Grand Forks." I'm thinking "Hamilton, MO," forty miles away. We both have the same goal, I just like lots of little successes.


----------



## wingNwing

junkrig said:


> Let me second that. When Gloria and I leave here for her family home in North Dakota, 700-some miles away, she's thinking "Grand Forks." I'm thinking "Hamilton, MO," forty miles away. We both have the same goal, I just like lots of little successes.


There's some philosophy here that's transferable to life as a whole, not just sailing.


----------



## flbkroxie

> Or, maybe I'm just sulking because *I* would like to be the boat fluff every once in a while.


Sorry to enter this thread so late, but haven't been on this forum for awhile. I had a similar situation, but on a much smaller scale. My husband and I recently learned to sail together and now own a small sailboat. When we first started we shared all responsibilities, however recently he likes to do all the motoring and leaves the sailing to me, thinking that I'm the "better" sailor. So when we go out I do most of the work once we're out of the harbor. I don't mind so much, but when we have guests I would like to relax a bit and enjoy their company, and not have to worry about a busy San Diego bay full of boats, ships, and barges.

It all changed a few weeks ago when I invited a friend who was a very good sailor and had once owned a boat similar to ours. I gave the tiller to him and never took it back. He and hubby shared in the sailing and I think it gave my husband back the confidence that he had lost somewhere along the line.

Now he shares in the sailing and I have learned to do a better job of motoring and docking. I must admit that it was so much fun to have a glass of wine, sit back, relax, and leave the sailing to someone else! This probably doesn't help you at all in your situation, but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in wanting to be "boat fluff" once in awhile.


----------



## WDS123

San Diego,


He might be secretly letting you sail because he wants you to be able to stand the 0100-0500 watch alone one day.


----------



## SloopJonB

I want to know why you left it until Saturday morning. You should have gone down Friday night and slept on the boat so you could be SAILING at 08:30.


----------



## sailguy40

Here is my take on getting someone interested in sailing... I for one give up trying to get a girlfriend or any of my friends at that interested in sailing. The whole fantasy of me doing something like this with some super sailing woman is just a dream... Honeymoon Crosses the Ocean - YouTube Anyone ever seen these videos? This couple named their boat the "Honeymoon" and basically sailed the globe. They went all over the place and its recorded in several videos! Their last video from Brissy to Sydney is just priceless.

Problem is I have found my girlfriends, friends and family are just NOT hardcore enough. Sailing I guess takes a little love for it, toughness and bravery that most people simply lack. My last girlfriend who claimed to be sea and had all these fantasies of sailing away with me, I am afraid was simply not cut out for it.

There was a reason why I knew I had to learn how to single hand very well and that is because if I want to sail, and really sail, I think it will be 75% of the time single handed. Good thing for me that I have learned. I may actually be casting off for the Gulf Islands by the end of this week, half the trip looks like it will be single handed.

This all said, I now realize the reality of it all and that simply is... the woman who will sail away with me is not a girlfriend or wife at all, rather its the very boat I own or will own. She is the one who will never give up, who will go the full length, and fulfill our dreams. The average person is just not cut out for all of this. Heck many of my friends complain about hot weather and they, just as I am, were born and raised in the south so go figure. I can sail all day in 95 degree temps.

One sure way to convert almost anyone regardless of their desire or fear is to have a yacht like this... SPCruiser: Island Packet Yachts Then its like they can be in their high class luxury suite, in the AC and watching TV or showering. Check the photo gallery of this gorgeous boat and see what I mean. Me, I will own what I want and certainly won't ever buy something to try and get others to come sailing. As my boat, Tropic Spirit is plenty nice and clean inside out and very comfortable for a weekend trip. She is more then enough for two or even four people provided two are a couple as the v-birth is close sleeping quarters.

At last, hats off though to the newly weds in that youtube video, they really have lived the dream that I am sure many of us on here would love to live. I find it amazing that I have to beg some people to break routine and just have fun for a change. Its like... Hey! Go ahead and live sometimes, its not a crime and you wont get in trouble for it.


----------



## 75R20

Sorry, but I'm 100% man and I say "your over-thinking it"
You have never said "he's stupid" so I'll assume he is not. IF he needs to use the radio......he'll figure it out.
Does he really need to read the chart ???? Really ? he'll figure it out, if needed.
Do you think you are an enabler.........I do. 
YOU make him sound stupid, and I bet he's not......
Both He and I sail to relax, and a host of other reasons. Our reasons don't have to be the same as your reasons........leave "OUR" reasons alone and we'll leave your reasons alone.

P.s. My wife/life partner just read this and after she stopped laughing.......she said you need a different hobby. She completely agreed with me. Her words.....not mine.
Best of luck....
Kary
S/V Mariah
#49080


----------

