# hard dodger vs. soft



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Folks,
My husband and I are buying a new boat (Caliber 47) and would like to put a 6 ft. high hard dodger on it. We''ve been told to not go over 53 inches high and that a soft dodger is better. We want good visibility, we don''t want to have to unzip a connector from dodger to bimini everytime we come into the mariner or go out, and we don''t want to keep ducking everytime we go down the companionway or keep watching guests hit their heads. We''ll be going with a fully enclosed canvas cockpit system. Most of our sailing will be on the east coast between Maine and Florida. We do plan to go to Hawaii, Bahamas, and Azores someday. Are we completely wrong to want comfort and good visibility knowing the doghouse look is not as sleek looking as a lower profile dodger? Does anyone have a high hard dodger and are sorry they went with it?
Thanks,
Karen


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## VIEXILE (Jan 10, 2001)

In Maine it was nice to have a dodger cruising. Water temp had a lot to do with it, but it gets COLD up there. RARELY do you see anyone with a dodger bopping around the Carib unless it''s crossing a passage. Hard dodgers limit your options. Why unzip when coming to the marina? Connected to bimini? All closed up? You won''t be able to take that very long. Bimini, attached good dodger with frame you can stow. Hardtops? Eh. Buy a pilothouse if that''s what you want. Once in the tropics all you''ll use is the bimini unless it''s raining hard or water''s coming over. Opinion only, not a fact to be found. KW


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I was talking to a marina mate about putting a hard dodger on my boat. He said "no Way" when a hurricane comes you can''t get rid of the extra windage. He has sailed a lot and lived aboard for over 20 years. I decided not to go the hard dodger route. His boat is equipped with almost everything a 40'' centercockpit design but he has a soft dodger.


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

As I may have mentioned in a related (or duplicate) thread, the term ''hard dodger'' as it''s used today seems to me a misnomer. It may sound like a quibble but I think the distinction is important. My attempt at defining dodger types would be:
1. ''Soft Dodger'' - stainless frame and fabric cover with various multiple ''ports'' (more like windows, really) made of soft vinyl up thru thick/hard Strataglas. Removeable, stowable. Cloth can have it''s bottom fastenings released in some designs to accommodate some solid water without damage.
2. ''Hard-Top Dodger'' - fiberglass or hard vinyl top supported by similar stainless frame and with similar (possibly removeable) ''windows''; removeable with more effort and more difficult to stow that large, rigid top; removal not really viable once the storm begins.
3. ''Hard Dodger'' - fixed-in-place structure that''s permanently tied into the cabin trunk and cockpit coamings. Not removeable.

IMO the biggest misperception re: the ''hard-top dodger'' is that its inherently strong and will handle offshore conditions. This is reinforced by some of these units being advertised with a vendor standing on top of the dodger top. Handling that vertical, static load looks impressive but a sideways, slewing hit by one or two tons of wet cement-like sea water will likely result in damage similar to that of a ''soft dodger'', it would seem to me.

Jack


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## 39512 (Mar 30, 2004)

I looked at the boat on the web. I think that the shape of the cockpit would make for a difficult doghouse installation.

I have seen this kind of thing go both ways.
Some added doghouses are ok, some are horrible aesthetically.

There is a window product called EZ2CY that is very stiff and built as a panel that cannot be folded. It hinges up out of the way. It is easy to open and provides excellent visibility in the long run.

I think you would be better off with a dodger that is stepped to 6 feet from the cockpit sole just at the companionway. Download the picture from the caliber website and draw in some shapes.


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## flyingbear (Nov 2, 2000)

I have a "Wavestopper" hard top dodger on my boat. While it is very sturdy and has great hand holds on it, I took a wave over the bow sailing in our blustery N. Pacific. The wave proceeded aft and to my great suprise, did not go over the dodger but went right through the lexan windows and down my wife''s back who was just coming up the companion way. The hard top never moved but the zippers holding the windows onto the dodger top just "unzipped". The zippers were forced apart by the force of the wave. We just zipped the windows back in and that was that. I wonder what would have happened to a soft dodger? That being said, I love the dodger because of the shelter it offers from the wind and spray, its secure handholds, and yes, I stand on top of it to put on my mains''l cover. The northern California climate makes the dodger a must have.


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## arjand (Mar 9, 2009)

Hmmmm........ reading up on all this I end up kinda indecisive.

Soft Dodger:
pro's: allows for wind when it is hot, can be stowed when necessary
con's: vulnerable in rogue waves

Hard Dodger:
pro's: will hold in rough conditions or in rogue waves
cons: makes for hot conditions in the tropics, increases profile/exposure in gale.

Did I forget something?


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

arjand said:


> Did I forget something?


the hard dodger adds a lot of extra windage that can't be removed. could be a "pro" or "con' depending on your point of sail.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Windage, windage, windage at times can be your enemy. It's rare, but it happens......*i2f*


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## arjand (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks very much for you very quick replies! And just to make sure: Windage (at the times you REALLY dont want it) is a much bigger danger than the lack of protection (rogue wave in A LOT OF wind) when you need it? (Just to make sure!). Thanks again!!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Keep in mind that in reality, even 'soft' dodgers rarely get folded down - most now have lexan windows that don't like to bend that much.... so I suggest the windage issue is a non-issue in the decision making in many cases.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Not to disrespect your thoughts Faster, but it can be a big issue. As I typed it is rare, but it does happen.

On the hook we got a quick squall come through on the Halifax river. It topped out at 60 knots. Unfortunately the frame wasn't through bolted by the builder. This squall only lasted 20 minutes, but it tore the front of the frame loose from the house. Now we had a flat panel at about 30 degrees to the wind. Only the boom was holding it down.

Unfortunately the builder ran the frame through the cloth. I had to cut the bimini to shreds. The new bimini is now laced, and the lacing can be cut to save the bimini. The frame is now through bolted, so it will be nearly impossible to be pulled loose. It was windage that broke it loose while throwing in some bad design flaws.......*i2f*


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

imagine2frolic said:


> Not to disrespect ....


No worries, i2f... there are always exceptions. In an area subject to squalls and really strong winds I can see you'd want to be able to get things off in a hurry.. but it might be an interesting poll to see how many "soft" dodgers are routinely folded down (or, for that matter how many dodger frames are throughbolted.....)

Anyhow, good points..


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

Faster said:


> .. but it might be an interesting poll to see how many "soft" dodgers are routinely folded down (or, for that matter how many dodger frames are throughbolted.....)


Yes and yes. We spec'd zippers so the canvas can be quickly removed from the frame as well.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Keep in mind that invariably you will be holding on to the dodger when going forward from the cockpit. What you grab on to needs to be reliable and sturdy.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

In 18 years on my mono. I folded the dodger down maybe 5 times. To rebuild the traveller, remove the motor a couple of times, pull the mast, rebed the snaps, and restitch the dodger itself.

The front window unzipped, and rolled up to cut down on windage, and cool off the cockpit in Mexico. I typed rare, because it is rare, but when you need to get rid of it. It can be a real blessing when you can.......*i2f*


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