# Ratlines



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would like to tie ratlines into one set of my lower shrouds to get me at least to the spreaders. Has anyone any advice as to the best way to go about it?
Thanks
Gary


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

garyp said:


> I would like to tie ratlines into one set of my lower shrouds to get me at least to the spreaders. Has anyone any advice as to the best way to go about it?
> Thanks
> Gary


I think lines secured by rolling hitches could do the job. However, you may find a rope rungs to be unsteady and fabricating wooden rungs required for practical use. This solution will take some time and effort, so you'd be better off looking at the fabricated mast steps that are available - there are some neat folding units around. Now its even more expensive... If you are not going long distances, offshore, short-handed, then a good bosun's chair is the cheap way to solve the whole problem.

Good luck.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Traditionally ratlines were secured to the shrouds with clove hitches. However, that would have been a manila line knotted around a manila line. Probably not secure using synthetic rope on stainless steel wire rigging. In fact, given the narrow gauge of wire rigging, I doubt that any knot would hold securely around to bear much weight.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

one of the locals added ratlines to make his H28 more "colourful"...but they are working ratlines, so this is how he did it; He effectively made a rope lader with rope verticals as well as rungs that fitted into the narrowing space between the shrouds. The vertical ropes were then secured to the shrouds at every rung. He seems to have achieved this construction by running the veretical ropes up the shrouds first (a bit of duct tape at the top to hold things while construction is underway). Then he would tie a "rung" where he wanted it around both vertical rope and shroud, then the vertical rope would be pulled though and tied around the rung...this macramea was continued down to the deck and the whole thing was then secured in place. Looks ind of nice in a dinky sort of way and took the weight of a large guy climbing up (to throw water balloons at other boats, it was that sort of regatta). The vertical rope seemd to be only 6mm, the rungs were a comfortable 10mm(maybe even 12mm) rope that I think used to be his old halyards.

Just a thought.


Sasha


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for passing on a good idea Shasha. I have experimented with using a rolling hitch, (what we called a tautline hitch in the Boy Scouts) with mediocre results: slight slippage. The steps will only slip so far in the extreme, because they are limited by the widening distance between the shrouds. I think wooden rungs (tied with clove hitches?) might make better use of this effect, but I haven't tried yet. When the weather is nice I'd rather go sailing.
Cheers, Gary


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## yachtvalhalla (Mar 1, 2006)

Check out mine at http://yachtvalhalla.net/projects/ratlines/ratlines.htm

Terry


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

What are you doing up there? If it's just for inspection, a quick route might be to tie a series of bowlines on a bight in a line, for footholds, and hoist it up the mast. There's also a similar peice of equipment made out of webbing if you don't trust your knotting skills. If you're going up there repeatedly to take pictures under sail, for example, the wooden rungs on the shrouds look like a better idea.


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## yachtvalhalla (Mar 1, 2006)

On a cruising boat, especially in the tropics, you will want to go up to the spreaders to navigate among the coral heads or for a better view toward the horizon. Getting to the spreaders with ratlines makes it easy but don't make the mistake of putting them only on one side. You don't know which tack you will be on and climbing on the lee side is difficult. If you have steps on the mast they only need to go from the spreaders up, with ratlines getting you to the spreaders.

Terry


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Terry And Paul: I want to go up the mast for all of the mentioned reasons, photos, spotting coral heads, easy access to masthead and spreader lights, etc etc. Wooden rung ratlines definitely seem the way to go. Thanks Terry for the point about being able to climb on either tack.I had just planned to install on one side.
Also thanks for the link to your website. Lots of good ideas. I am working out the installation of a removeable inner forestay for my boat (Pearson 323) and have been wondering how far above the spreaders I can go without adding running backstays. If I go up 3 ft (15% of the length of the mast above the lowers) my staysail is only about 90 sq ft, which seems small for a 13,000 lb boat. (My main is 195 sq ft, and fore triangle is 285) Your boat is very similar to mine in terms of hull dimensions, displacement and ballast. What size is your staysail?
Also, how strong did you think the lower attachment hardware of the stay needs to be? Johnson MArine Hardware offers a Hyfield type lever in the $90 range with a safe working load of 1600lbs, which they advertise as suitable for inner forestays on boats larger than 30 ft.
I will be running a chainplate thru the deck to a bulkhead glassed into the forepeak and feel confident about that end of the stay. Did your naval architect offer any formula for what percentage of the upper mast above the lowers would be a safe attachment point?
I also like your idea of an attachment point for using the vang as a preventer. I'm sure I will continue to mine your site for other great ideas.
Thanks, Gary


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## yachtvalhalla (Mar 1, 2006)

*Stand by*

Gary,

Sorry but I'm hauling out today so will need a few days to answer your questions.

Terrry


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## alanl (Mar 13, 2006)

Why not consider folding mast steps? I have them on my 30' cat and they are invaluable, because they fold away to create minimal turbulence. Depending on the mast material, they just bolt or screw on, usually at about 600mm intervals each side, meaning 300mm between the steps. Accessed from the boom,I just use an alpine harness clipped to a hallyard for safety.

Hope this helps, 

AlanL


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## yachtvalhalla (Mar 1, 2006)

AlanL,

Have you ever tried climbing the mast using the folding steps while underway? You'd have to climb looking aft unless you dropped the mainsail and even then it's extremely hard to hang on. The advantage of ratlines is that you are not climbing a vertical plane due to the angle of the lower shrouds (unless you only have them on one side and it's the lee side, in which case it could be over the vertical). I have folding steps from the spreaders to the top of the main mast but have only had to go all the way once while underway and it was a frightening experience. Normally, you only need to go up to the spreaders to get a good view of the reefs and coral heads while navigating in shallow water.

Terry


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## iconoclastes (Aug 5, 2011)

I've used a klemheist (Klemheist Knot | How to tie the Klemheist Knot | Climbing Knots) with 3.5 mm cord to string a hammock from shrouds, and I'm 260 lbs.

I don't know how they'd do over time, I imagine they'd weather. You'd want to inspect 'em.


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## iconoclastes (Aug 5, 2011)

Bowline in a bight might slip (constrict) under load. Alpine butterfly, an excellent, easy loop, tied in the bight, takes a load in any of the 3 directions w/out a problem.

Or, maybe, don't use the shrouds. Tie a rope ladder, hmmm, anchor it at the buckles, or maybe a cleat, run it up using the spare halyard, maybe tie each side to a shroud, keep it from twisting too much. Mmm. Spreaders'd be in the way, probably.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey Gary,

Please document this also on the Pearson 323 site (Pearson 323 Owners Home Page). I, and I am sure others, would be really interested in this, and how it works out.....


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Gary, after researching this a bit a couple of years ago, I put rat lines on my lower shrouds...a wood rat line at the bottom (with belaying pins) and each third one up, with three strand 7/16ths line for the two between the wooden ones. Used one and half by two mahogany for the wooden ones. Spliced eyes in both ends of the rope lines.

Spacing was 14 inches.

Shrouds were prepped using black electrical tape at the position of each rat line, covered by a tight wrap of waxed nylon brown "marlin" for about three inches of the shroud. Lashed the wooden and rope rat lines to the shrouds at the prep points using marlin.

The specific techniques for drilling the wooden rat lines and for lashings used are beyond the scope of a quick post here. If you would like these specifics, PM me and I will send them to you.

These methods aren't mine, but I can't remember whose instructions they are right now (Mate, HG Smith, Casey, Toss???). I have them around here somewhere and will find them and scan them and send them to you if you like.

This is a tedious and time consuming project. Took me several days at the boat wrapping and lashing...after several days in the shop measuring/cutting/finishing the wood and measuring/cutting/splicing the lines.

The rat lines looked great. They were comfortable to step on, and they were secure and never slipped. The lower wooden rat line and belaying pins were great for keeping halyards away from the mast when at anchor/mooring/dockside to prevent clanging. I am thinking about using them for mounting points for small, rigid but removable solar panels.

The downside of all this is that all that work gets ripped off when unstepping the mast, which I do every year.


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