# Major problem in mexico



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

338 boats have been impounded by a new agency that has been visiting boats and checking paperwork. These boats are not allowed to leave Mexico or to move from the marina. No boats have been chained to the dock [ yet ].

See Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude for more details.

Talk about killing boat tourism !


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

QUICK -- someone warn ZEEHAG!!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Good article and fair warning. At first, I thought the documentation requirement seemed pretty straightforward and those that failed to comply had it coming. However, reading that you are considered guilty (improperly documented), if you simply are not on your boat when they come to check is typical 3rd world country. Then when they won't take you off the provisional embargo even when you appear with the documents later, smack like the corruption they are so widely known for. A few hundred US greenbacks would have probably released the embargo. The world can be an ugly place, and often is.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

"So, ******, how much money do you have for me"? 

In all fairness, I have never been there nor do I have any plans to ever go there. Only know what I have read about, sounds rather scary, kind of like "you bet your boat"?

Paul T


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We have friends stuck here at home with serious medical issues, and with a boat sitting at a marina there... I imagine they have been caught up in this and may not even know it. I think/hope they have a caretaker that will keep them informed.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

What's the possibility that some of these boats will be "requisitioned" by the Mexican government?
Wonder if it would be worth it to sail away and deal with US authorities upon arrival in the states?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

ok here is my take on it all..is a purge localized in the area in which a certain individual was mouthing off about falsified papers. 
the area included banderas bay, golfo de california, and ensenada.. the places that person bragged about being able to find falsified papers. ...AND the timing was right...within 4 months of the postings, purge. 
there is no such thing as coincidence.
federales who understand english and some of whom actually read forums and facebook....
napoleonic law as a legal basis, 
and a mouthy person bragging on false papers and the location of same.. go figger.
as no jackboots came south of banderas bay , even to huatulco, and as no one south of banderas bay was jacked up, i cannot believe it was a coincidence that only those areas were targeted. the good thing is this 1 yr alleged veteran of mexico cruising is going to south pacific. should be interesting.

there is no mordida on west coast for checking into mexico nor in the maintenance of legal workings, unless you CHOOSE to give. and that is for buying a policeman when you wish your tienda protected. as most of us do not fit into that category, there is no problem except a single ignorant soul who could not stfu about things he knows nothing about.
i hope your friends boat is not one of the 338...if it is, they need to send someone to the sat to liberate it , with original papers of everything --.tip, document, visas, allllll...boat will be liberated within 4 months, sooner if you go to sat yourself. 
as there are over 300 boats left in mexico at present with no owner present, i believe the mexican govt has been tolerating gringos quite well. we sail south and leave our unwanted boats in mexico... how would you deal with that insult??

btw--they do not want our boats...they have better ones. trust me i know. oh yes, and i am fine...didnt even smell federales here...
i HAVE been hearing a lot of comment about the arrogance and ignorance of ****** cruisers..might wanna clean up yer acts. lower yerselves a bit to not be so above them --they are a proud people with happy souls, even the overworked ones...accountability is a biig thing here...seems gringos ¡who leave boats here do not have accountability....

sat is tax office. they are approachable. donot offer mordida, as that is an insult nowadays. they brag on the fact usa is more corrupt than is mexico anymore..lol

dabnis--i find mexico no scarier than catskill, ny. is pleasant here with rules well spelled out and defined. obey laws and no problem. mouth off about falsified parers or illegalities and ruin life for over 300 souls who are perhaps innocents.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

zeehag said:


> ....
> there is no mordida on west coast for checking into mexico nor in the maintenance of legal workings, unless you CHOOSE to give. and that is for buying a policeman when you wish your tienda protected. as most of us do not fit into that category, there is no problem except a single ignorant soul who could not stfu about things he knows nothing about.
> ....
> as there are over 300 boats left in mexico at present with no owner present, i believe the mexican govt has been tolerating gringos quite well. we sail south and leave our unwanted boats in mexico... how would you deal with that insult??
> ...


zeehag, that sexy avatar of yours is decidedly a Mexican girl so you are a Mexican in disguise. That's the only way I can understand your position

Have fun cruising on the South,

Regards

Paulo


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

pcp...you ENCOURAGE the abandonment of boats in mexico??
or is it that you encourage the spewing of words regarding falsifications of papers and bragging on the practicing of illegalities in a nation unknown to your self and those who you endanger with that spewing of words in a napoleonic law based nation.......
there is no such thing as coincidence, amigo. do not go into other nations and spew that you are allegedly knowing where in golfo de california/ sea of cortez the falsification of papers is being practiced. you will encourage the wrath of that federal government. 
the ones being besmirched, the federales of mexico, do not like besmirchment. they punish this. deportation is only one means of punishing those visitors who speak against the people and place and govt. those not liking it here can leave and they will help.
my papers are 100percent legal and obtained thru legal channels, id est, the government branch that does that, inm. i have also been a walking billboard in favor of mexico. i like it here..folks are nice and life is good. the officials are fair minded and trying to rid the system of old bad habits by creating new ones that change with each newly elected regime. everything changes here when govt is voted and changed. i t is too bad we cannot do that in usa. it is a good practice. 
i have friends who are federales because i was a dockmate in one instance and i helped judge the regatta,,,,was a kick... i mingle with locals, not isolate with others of like skin color and language.

oh, and pcp...which is a bad drug......i am full blooded usa founding fathers´ ancestors....but i am not so arrogant nor ignorant as to put that forward in my routine lifestyle.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

zeehag said:


> pcp...you ENCOURAGE the abandonment of boats in mexico??
> or is it that you encourage the spewing of words regarding falsifications of papers and bragging on the practicing of illegalities in a nation unknown to your self and those who you endanger with that spewing of words in a napoleonic law based nation.......
> there is no such thing as coincidence, amigo. do not go into other nations and spew that you are allegedly knowing where in golfo de california/ sea of cortez the falsification of papers is being practiced. you will encourage the wrath of that federal government.
> the ones being besmirched, the federales of mexico, do not like besmirchment. they punish this. deportation is only one means of punishing those visitors who speak against the people and place and govt. those not liking it here can leave and they will help.
> ...


Zeehag coll down. I was being ironic. I appreciate your knowledge about Mexico and your attitude in what regards saying what you think.

Regarding mixing with others I am a typical Portuguese in what regards that. There is a Brazilian joke about the Portuguese: God made the black man and the white man. Portuguese made the "mulatos". Mulato is the result of a miscegenation but I don't know how to translate it in English I could use the word half-breed but that has a negative connotation while mulato has none.

Look at the Brazilian population, do you know of any country where miscegenation is so profound?

Have a nice Christmas.

Regards

Paulo


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

ok.....you as well...bubba sed to say meouwry treesmass...he sed isnt politically incorrect, as i usually am....lol....

but , what i did say is necessary fro some folks who cruise to read.. sorry if i took out on you.. but is needed to be said...
watch , guys , what you say online in these places and fb, as the federales in mexico all have their own ipods..yes..and samsung galaxies, which sell here for only 150 usd......SOOOOOOOOOOO.. they ALL have fb pages and they all read the words written here and cf and all the other forums, and sailing places. one port cpt loves sailing anarchy...rodl....please be careful. and respectful


if the usa govt can do it, you KNOW others do it.......international inquisivitiveness....research....whatever it is, it does have a name and we are all watched not just by usa bumblers.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

PCP said:


> zeehag, that sexy avatar of yours is decidedly a Mexican girl so you are a Mexican in disguise. That's the only way I can understand your position
> 
> Have fun cruising on the South,
> 
> ...


that is no avatar, that is photo of her, I swear it is!

I hope this all gets sorted out. Sounds like the officials are over reacting. I was in Mexico a few years back and did feel quite safe. Biggest thing is to stay away from the drug cartels and there turf battles and you should be OK.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

itll all be fixed in a minute...there was an article in latitude 38 stating the same for baja haha goers only to be cleared up in a minute

if you want to talk about killing tourism there are many places other than mexico I could point out...mexico is by far the most tourist and cruiser friendly place in most of latin america...

cheers


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

all folks have to do is take their papers to sat, the tax part of govt, and is done. liberation is that day for those who actually did this instead of cry and whine.
motivation makes the difference. those motivated to go to the tax bureau got freed. those waiting for the marinas to fix it for them are still waiting.... hhmmmmm
does that say something????


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

> dabnis--i find mexico no scarier than catskill, ny. is pleasant here with rules well spelled out and defined. obey laws and no problem. mouth off about falsified parers or illegalities and ruin life for over 300 souls who are perhaps innocents.


Z, as you are there and I am here, you must be right. However, after hearing of some of my friend's negative experiences while there, you can take my place. 

Paul T


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

sad to hear of negative experiences while cruising here. 
part of the cruising experience is the locale..some places are more conducive to enjoyment than others. 
some people dont flex well enough to be wanderers, which is essentially what cruising is..wandering and adventuring under sail.
i hope your friends were treated with respect here. mexico is a polite nation with much pride. yeah they have `problems, but where does not have problems any more....certainly not usa.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

you want to kill tourism?

as a salvadorean flagged boat, in my case they want to charge me(the salvadorean port authority) $40 bucks a pop to cruise from one port to another...in my country!

kind of like charging boats going from san francisco to halfmoon bay, just as stupid...

that crap kills tourism...not what this thread is about

cheers to all

lets all loosen up

almost christmas!

peace


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While the USA can't claim to be the least corrupt place on the planet, it ranks #19 out of 177 countries (#1 being the least corrupt) rated by Transparency International. Mexico ranks #106. There is no comparison.

The 10 Most Corrupt and Least Corrupt Countries in the World | Reuters


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

absolutely true

on a people to people level, or at work or in general I loved this when living in the U.S...those that were corrupt you just ignored or reported etc...basically there was a TRUST agreement between people that I loved...and admired...especialy in trade work.

I have been told that during the recession stuff like craigslist adds and forums and the like became hot spots for untrustworthy people...seems to be improving though.

corruption for example in latin america especially central america is exactly why we rank so low in torusim for example...or foreign investment...simply we are not trusted.

I might add that simply going by rankings on *anything* is a fine way of never leaving your couch!!! jajaja

just sayin

ps. I think this will clear up shortly however last latitude 38 update mentions that even they are baffled by this new government NIETO´s intentions

pss...nieto the new president is the returning candidate for PRI which was a controlled dictatorship for around almost a century before FOX came into power....PRI is BIG government, mass control, and big tax...so maybe this agency was created just to make some extra $$$

which happens all the time down here

cheers


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

While a different subject Mexico has also added a tax to even enter their waters. A common long day sail or overnight sail from San Diego is to or around the Coronado Islands. Now to even enter the waters you need to fill out forms and pay fees or face the consequences.

When Mexico first started this a few months ago they just started stopping boats and demanding compliance but now they have a system in order to collect and enforce this. Most people I know have just stopped going there.

_SPORT FISHING AND NAUTICAL TOURISM
lf you are a foreigner and want to enter Mexican Territory by sea with recreational, sports , or leisure purposes or to practice any recreational water activity and you are on board a vessel intended solely for personal pleasure of her owners and not pro fit oriented. lt has never been easier!

THE STEPS TO FOLLOW ARE:
Sport fishing boat operators must report vessel entry to and departure from Mexico to the National Immigration Institute (INM), in addition to providing the list of passengers on board by filling out the format downloadable from:
Instrucciones para pasajeros - Instituto Nacional de Migración.

Afterwards, the master of the vessel must email the electronic file to: [email protected], which belongs to the Local INM Delegation at Ensenada, Baja California.

The receipt showing proof of payment covering migratory service fees must be attached to the email, Fees are paid according to the total number of foreigners entering Mexico's territorial waters onboard the vessel, and can be paid electronically either for an individual or for everyone collectively by logging onto the following web site: https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroEmbarques/

The payable fee of $295.00 pesos (Two-Hundred and Ninety Five 00/100 Mexican Pesos) per foreigner is set by the Federal Fee Act (Ley Federal de Derechos) in its Article 8, Section I.

Applicants will receive an email from INM either authorizing the trip or denying entry to a passenger intending to enter Mexico's territorial water onboard the given vessel.

The authorizing email will contain INM's permit to enter as a Visitor without Permission to Perform Paid Activities. The length of stay will cover the amount of time asked for min the application, yet such shall not exceed 180 days nor may it be used for multiple entries and departures. A copy will be sent to the Secretary of the Navy (SEMAR) and to the Secretary of Communications and Transportation (SCT.)_


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

the alleged tax for entering mexican waters is the entry fee into mexico..not a tax .. is 25 usdollars. peso is 13 pesos to one us dollar. 295 pesos is nothing at all....if one must sail into d around another nations territorial waters,there is no sense making a complaint about entering that country to so do. the paper being purchased is a visa to visit as a visitor or as a sports fisher. this is basic. this is actually COURTESY. in a country and or its territorial waters without avisa is a punishable offense , especially as visas for mexico have been made so much easier by mexican govt bending over backwards to accommodate tourists who venture into mexico by private boats.
what mexico is trying to do is only that which any and all other nations do with their territorial waters..they are policing them. go figger. 
buy a visa or do not sail in mexico. easy peasy, and you can acquire them online??? gee, when i left cali for sailing here, one had to go to mexican consulate for the visa acquisition, and pay in mexico at a port of entry. this new policy is so much easier. 
what is the complaint????? desire to continue to practice illegal activities of sailing around and anchoring in mex¡can waters without the mandatory visa????
that is irresponsible and disrespectful. not to mention essentially illegal.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

much has changed for the better till now I guess...

when I cruised all of the pacific coast of mexico back in 2000-01 it was a 1 day ordeal at almost every official port of entry, taxi to an from banjercito, api, etc......so we tried to go to as many non official ports of entry and did the typical layover hoping to not get too "exposed"

having said this...as an aside to focus on the GOOD in puerto vallarta the navy was so awesome we got towed in at no expense as our diesel quit right at the village entrance...or like 1 mile out.

talk about good guys!

diesel "mechanics" on the other hand Ill reserve my comments! jajaja 

peace


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

A friend of mine sailing from USA to Belize had to put into Mexico for a medical emergency that resulted in him returning to the USA for a month. Mexican Authorities seized his boat for unauthorized entry. Even though my friend was a friend of the Mexican President Fox, he could not get his boat back. I used to like Mexico, not now and I will not go there anymore.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

sounds like the improper entry should have been addressed. was his own fault despite illness. there are hospitals in mexico which are just fine. there are even ****** hospitals in mexico. 
in any country, the only excuse for improper entry is death.
and playing on friendships is not respèctful. is not the presidents job to clear youy into a port.

there is no more every port check in.
online visas were unheard of when i left just 3 years ago. seems that now with online fishing licenses and online visas, there is no excuse for ****** arrogance.
is understandable that mexico wants you to get your visa BEFORE sailing into mexican waters. there is a lot of smuggler action there in that area--not merely drugs. 
having a visa can only protect you, as it gives you a legitimate reason to be there.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Frogwatch said:


> A friend of mine sailing from USA to Belize had to put into Mexico for a medical emergency that resulted in him returning to the USA for a month. Mexican Authorities seized his boat for unauthorized entry. Even though my friend was a friend of the Mexican President Fox, he could not get his boat back. I used to like Mexico, not now and I will not go there anymore.


because of that?

hmmm the way I read this is that even though your firend had a "connection" as we call that down here he was unable to persuade authorities otherwise

seems UNCORRUPT to me

we should really be objective about this

what probably happened is that your friend could not take care of his paperwork for the boat before leaving because of his emergency so because of that unfortunately this happened...

if you go to the states or europe which is MUCH more paperwork and enforced do you really think you can just stop over in SUCH and such country without doing your appropriate paperwork and then come back and expect it all to be dandy?

even if it WAS an emergency

I know plenty of places where saying you had catastrophic damage to your boat and a dead auxiliary and even then you are quaranteened or not allowed to leave the country or boat, etc...etc...

like zeehag and other have said this can be resolved....I can almost guarantee that all 338 boats failied to show something, even though it might be so damn trivial...the POINT is that since its a foreign country and you are entering it and partaking of its beauty or NOT........

you must abide

ridiculous it may seem

just sayin

bureacracy kills tourism as does stupdity so does flagrant bias and one sidedness


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

AND, how is the Mexican officials so much worse than the TSA guy who confiscated a toy gun from the holster of a teddy bear. The "gun" was less than 1.5 inches long! 

As was said, in a foreign country, abide by the rules, ALL of them, not just the ones you think are right.

Jill and I cruised Mexico from 04 to 08 and LOVED it AND the people. We had NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with officials!! We were legal in all the ways required.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, we felt MUCH safer there than in the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

We are only back in the good old U, S, of A, due to a family emergency that took place. 

Like I said, we feel much safer there than here. (NOT counting any border towns, on either side.)

Greg


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Having never been to Mexico, I can't comment on what went on before.. but what is going on now seems straightforward enough. If you listen to what ZeeHag has to say, it is even easier than before.

Not worth getting any article of clothing in a bunch


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

> even if it WAS an emergency
> 
> I know plenty of places where saying you had catastrophic damage to your boat and a dead auxiliaryand even then you are quaranteened or not allowed to leave the country or boat, etc...etc...


 You can find that right here in the U.S.A. --- and it is not just government goons --- all it takes is money.

My brother was helping his friend sail his 40-footer down to the keys to get the motor repaired (friend's family had a shop down there) when they started taking on *lots* of water near Ocean Reef Club, at the north end of Key Largo. They headed toward Ocean Reef to ask for help, were met by 'security guards', guys with AR-15-type rifles they didn't even pretend to not-aim at my brother & his friend, who told them to go away *right now*. They went....put the boat on a shallow sand bank where my brother could find & fix the leak. Waited a while for high tide, went their way.

Good thing it wasn't an immediately-life-threatening emergency: "We're sorry we shot your sons, but we told them to take their appendicitis somewhere else and they wouldn't listen, and just kept coming at us in the dinghy."


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## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> While the USA can't claim to be the least corrupt place on the planet, it ranks #19 out of 177 countries (#1 being the least corrupt) rated by Transparency International. Mexico ranks #106. There is no comparison.
> 
> The 10 Most Corrupt and Least Corrupt Countries in the World | Reuters


Note this list is based on "Corruption Perceptions" . Not any actual facts. Just what countries some people think are corrupt. They don't even say who.

They might have asked a bunch of paranoid people who think the world will end soon. The sky is falling the sky is falling....lol


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Zeehag is correct and is being quite diplomatic about all of this.
A couple of years ago I was down on our boat. The marina we were in was a port of entry to Canada.
I started to hear quite a commotion over by the customs dock and of course started to pay attention to what was going on.
A guy's wife had flown into Canada and had met her husband at the customs wharf. He had brought their boat into Canada from the States and was trying to clear customs. His wife felt that because they were "Americans" that this was all ridiculous and unnecessary. I couldn't count the times that she stated, "We're Americans you can't do that to us". Well they did and they tore that boat apart. They were probably ok to enter but since she had such a bad attitude our Canadian Customs Officers raked them over the coals.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and they were doing it wrong.
We are two countries with good relations but like Mexico we are still a foreign country with different rules and laws that need to be understood and adhered to. They were there for a very long time.
Whether you are entering Canada or Mexico you still have to respect the laws of the country that "you" wish to enter.
It's all about attitude and respect.

By the way Zeehag do you follow the TomZap forum?


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Dog Ship said:


> Zeehag is correct and is being quite diplomatic about all of this.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> ...


And it doesn't hurt to learn a little of their language. I did two Med cruises in the Navy, with stops all around, so I picked up phrase books for Spanish, Italian and Greek (we were homeported in Athens). The first things I practiced until I had them down cold were, "Please", "Thank you", and "Speak slowly please, I do not hear very fast.". That last phrase is a great ice-breaker - your auditor will crack up laughing that you can say it, then go out of their way to help you.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Yes, learning the language does two things. It shows that you have taken the time to be involved with the country you are entering and it always puts a smile on there faces when you try to say something.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

dogship...i only follow when someone sends me a linky as i lose my place online a lot..lol...i think i am registered with them bu ti am not certain...

attempting to speak and attempting to learn from locals their language is a sign of interest in the place you are inhabiting at the moment, and respect for their culture and individual selves. it is nearly mandatory when seeking favors from government and lawyers.
i noticed my port captain friend only speaks spanish 100 percent of time while on duty, and when visiting with friends, his english is flawless. 
WE are the visitors, WE best be trying to put out some spanish when in their offices..at least say buenos dias until 1200, and buenas tardes after 1200. buenas noches isnt until after dark. por favor and gracias never hurt , either, even if you do not say please and thankyou in your own home, do it while visiting other countries. not just our border neighbors, but anywhere you go.....
was funny when i visited some european countries in 1971 i was told i was very polite for an american...lol...in 1981 i was accused of being canadian....lol
doesnt say much for usa,even then., so why dont the folks in usa try to improve this .... i keep being told that it isnt usa, but everywhere else, but that was by usa citizens..in usa...lol...seems to be a source of the problem...attitude.....hhmmm


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Accused of being a Canadian , that must of been horrible. Haha
I used to work for a fellow from Burma who had a really thick accent. If he didn't like you he wouldn't even try to speak english. If he liked you he would speak perfect english. Go figure.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Respect from the culture is not only the right way to get along well but the one that makes you enjoy the most.

Talking about the med and particularly about its millennial culture it is just a waste not discovering it on many of their aspects including food an drink. They had a lot of time to perfect things.

While there I particularly enjoy the local drink, Uso and drink it like the Greeks. I got always a smile when I ask for an Uso at the middle of the afternoon, pretty much the same as when I ask for a pomada in Minorca.

Funny thing is that here a pomada is a good cup of wine while there it is a good cup but of something else. You will discover what is when you ask for it there

In Mexico what is the most popular drink: Tequila?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

most popular drink FOR GRINGOS AND ALCOHOLICS in mexico is tequila, err, mescal....
the most popular drink in mexico is cerveza. BEER. just like good ol us of a...rodlmffao

as for being accused of beoing canadian, i was at silverstone circuit for formula one racing and doing ok with the general snooty accentless english,when someone asked me where in canada was i from..i splained how we(canada) just annexed lost angeles lahwst week, thaahnkyoo so much , and we all laughed our booties off...

(my normal underlying accent is new york...lol)


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

I understand that completely. I am a native of South Jersey, which is fairly accentless (especially compared to Philly and to North Jersey) and I go out of my way to be polite.

I get asked all the time where I am from


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

Speaking the local language can also be a LOT of fun if you are bad at it!

A quick one.... We were cruising the Sea of Cortez side of the Baja for the first time. We anchored and took our dink in to a very small village that was way out of the way. Had one road in and that was 20+ miles off the main highway. We had practiced our Spanish for a few days and got down just fine how to ask where the local store was, “¿dónde está la tienda “. Got the dink secure and a couple of kids stopped by to see what was going on. In our BEST Spanish we asked our question....

What we got back, at more than 90 miles an hour,  was something like. “Camine esa manera. La tienda es justo allí hacia el mountion y tiene un camión de color rojo en frente de ella.”

We next learned how to ask them to speak slowly!!! But we were lucky as the kids, laughing all the way, showed us where it was. We treated each to a small treat and had a GREAT experience!!!! 

Greg


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## ericirvine (Aug 17, 2002)

Thanks Greg,

Your story reminded me of a similar experience in a small Baja village where we asked in one small store for something that they did not have, but informed us of another store that did. After trying to give us directions, and us failing to understand, the owner had us get in his car and drove us to the other one, waited while we purchased what we wanted, and drove us back!

BTW, another way to break some ice I have found is to buy the local kids some pepsi or ice cream. I started doing this while working in the Middle East many years ago during work breaks and soon had a daily following of all the local kids. They were lots of fun and helpful too.

Happy Christmas everyone, spread some cheer

Eric


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

I will admit that my experiences outside of the US were all limited to when I was a very young military brat, but from everything I have been told, (and this includes a good friend of mine who is from Germany) the best part of visiting another country is interacting with the locals.. unless you are going to Paris. Even the French who live outside of Paris do not like interacting with the Parisians.  (yes.. I got this from a Frenchwoman who grew up near Normandy)


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Boats impounded in Mexico - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

VERY different take on this.
Apparently NOTHING to do with Americans not learning Spanish.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

to point out, latititude38´s boat profligate is in the mix too...they have a precautionary embargo....another thing to point out

that article doesnt deviate much from what latitude 38 already said before in a couple of updates...again I think this will pass soon but if it doesnt then I feel really sorry for those with such ridiculous "embargos"

put out to sea if you can, or come down here and relax a bit more with the laid back attitude of a small untouristy country....YET

jaja 

cheers
merry christmas


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

mad_machine said:


> I will admit that my experiences outside of the US were all limited to when I was a very young military brat, but from everything I have been told, (and this includes a good friend of mine who is from Germany) the best part of visiting another country is interacting with the locals.. unless you are going to Paris. Even the French who live outside of Paris do not like interacting with the Parisians.  (yes.. I got this from a Frenchwoman who grew up near Normandy)


they say paris has changed a bit in that regard, again just hearsay from some frenchmen I know and cruised with...jajaja


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> that article doesnt deviate much from what latitude 38 already said before in a couple of updates...again I think this will pass soon but if it doesnt then I feel really sorry for those with such ridiculous "embargos"


Uhhh, did you read the rest of that thread?

Some VERY interesting information from Evans Starzinger therein...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah...I did

I think it rang true to what latitude had already said a few weeks back and now again...maybe I missed something...

EDIT:

Are you reffering to the poster by the name of ESTAR? if so:

It wouldnt surprise me one bit if it was true about the gangs buying out marinas...happens all the time in our parts of the world

as they say MONEY rules...hotels, restaurants, etc all get bought out and used as money laundering shows or basically business "fronts" for dirty deeds in the back

anyways

sad sad really


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

JonEisberg said:


> Uhhh, did you read the rest of that thread?
> 
> Some VERY interesting information from Evans Starzinger therein...


I did not see any post by Evans in that thread?????
Was it another thread?

Greg


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

You missed a lot. This is NOTHING to do with Americans not respecting the delicate sensibilities of the rest of the planet.
Apparently *entire marinas* were taken over by drug cartels and used to house stolen boats. Insurance agents from the USA found this out, which was embarrassing to Mexico. Thus the Federales are now on a mission to prove every boat is legal and way overshooting their goal.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> I did not see any post by Evans in that thread?????
> Was it another thread?
> 
> Greg


if evans is ESTAR on sailing anarchy then I read that part till the bottom...dont know anyone on sa...interesting from a US point of view nonetheless

commonplace in our areas...so I guess Im a little cynical about it...its so normal it becomes mainstream

unfortunately


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I've been reading the requirements for entry into Mexico with a pleasure craft. They make it quite clear that there will be no multiple entries or exits from the country without taking your boat with you. You go in with your boat and you leave with your boat. Otherwise, their process starts all over again, except now they have your boat as a bargaining tool.
I also understand that there are a lot of boats that get left down there for what ever reasons while their owners return to their home countries.
If you are not on your boat it could be a reasonable assumption that you are also not in the country, as many of these boat owners are not. 
As mentioned before and again in this article, you are presumed guilty first and then left to prove your innocence.
Some people have been able to show that they are in the country, in good standing, but that has been after the fact. Hopefully things work out for these few. 
Keep in mind your in Mexico, and things take time. All of these discrepancies are dealt with in Mexico City, not locally and certainly not at the wharf. Peoples' attitudes get tested when their homes, dreams and assets are on the line. Just like the woman I saw in our marina, you start to lose your cool.
Learning the language helps, but keeping your cool and abiding by the rules and regulations and showing respect is mandatory no matter what country you are trying to enter or stay in.
This brings to mind a situation with a Canadian who was wrongly thrown into jail in Mexico. It took our Government over two years of negotiations before she was released and sent back to Canada.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

There must be hundreds of people 'wintering' in Mexico and returning to their homes leaving their boats behind.. we have friends currently in that situation and others who'd done it for 3 seasons. To this point there had been no indication that there were any legal issues with that practice..??

Here's the storage lot at SanCarlos.. wonder if this embargo applies only to boats afloat?


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

FROM Marina de La Paz - Frequently asked questions

*If you intend to leave the country and leave your boat in Marina de La Paz, we will require a copy of your TIP. For information on chartering your boat while in Mexico, we recommend you speak to the Port Captain.*

If it is illegal to leave a boat without someone aboard in Mexico it sure isn't obvious!


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Check out clauses 6.4 and 8.1 and you will find that you have to leave with your boat when your allowed time in the country has expired. It would appear things changed Dec.15, 2012.
https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroVehiculos/


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Ok, so one "certain individual" was mouthing off about fake papers, so they impounded 300 vessels? What did the others do wrong? Doesn't sound cool to me.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

jzk said:


> Ok, so one "certain individual" was mouthing off about fake papers, so they impounded 300 vessels? What did the others do wrong? Doesn't sound cool to me.


AS the individual did not use real name online
AS federales who read our postings do not identify selves
AS the area was defined in th e jerk´s postings
and 
AS the defined area is a huge location full of boats left in marinas by gringos
dont you suppose that the logical conclusion, as there is no such thing as coincidence, is that the 
mouth was a cause of this purge, as the jerk was BRAGGING on the finding of false papers and use there of. 
it would follow that officials would decide to look into the general use of falsified visas and other paperworks used by yachties in golfo de california and the other 2 locations in which many boats have been left, mazatlan and banderas bay, as well as general compliance under mexican laws ..... 
ALL OF WHICH AREAS WERE MENTIONED IN THE JERKS POSTINGS.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

OK all,

This is a direct reply posted on the Southbound group by a couple that we know and trust A LOT! We consider them good friends and, *are down there NOW*. Of every one down there, I would stake it all on what they have to say!!!!!!

You can read the original post at; Yahoo Groups

Here it is.......

*Re: Impounded Boats in Mexico!?!
Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:17 am (PST) . Posted by:
sueross50*
There are a lot of rumors flying around over the recent inspections carried out by Mexican officials in 12 marinas and boatyards in seven different locations throughout Mexico. The intent of the inspections is to make sure that all foreign flagged vessels have current documentation, temporary import permit, insurance, and immigration documents of the owners. The requirements are not new--only the enforcement technique.

This is the first time in many years that there has been a concerted push to check the paperwork for foreign flagged vessels. The agency doing the inspections is tasked with making sure that all goods and commerce that enter Mexico have done so legally and have paid appropriate fees and duties including proper permits.

The surprise inspections caught many vessel owners and marinas off-guard because some of the required paperwork was missing, misfiled, expired, or had irregularities such as transposed serial numbers or misspelled names. If everything was not in perfect order in the marina's file, the vessel was placed on a list for further investigation and officially placed in precautionary embargo. Like all government processes (not just in Mexico) once on the list there is a formal procedure that must be followed in order to have the vessel removed from the list.

Vessels that have current documents onboard should not have any problems. These documents include originals of the registration/ title/documentat ion, original temporary import permit papers (permit/hologram, list of equipment, and payment receipt), current insurance binder that includes Mexican liability insurance, copy of the owner's passport, and copy of the owner's immigration document. Copies of all of the current documents should also be on file in the marina or boatyard office.

In some cases the officials were looking to physically match vessel identification numbers and official numbers (USCG, Transport Canada, etc.) and may not have been familiar with the locations of those numbers and without someone onboard to show them were automatically placed on the list for followup.

Every vessel that plans on entering Mexico should apply online for a temporary import permit before they arrive. The process is simple and efficient. Be sure to make sure that all of your documents are consistent -- HINs, official numbers, spelling of boat name and owner's names, Make sure that everything is current. Make sure that your HIN is clearly visible on the hull (on or near the starboard transom near the cap rail.)

As long as all of your paperwork is in order, you should not have any trouble. Mexico is a great place to visit and you should not let the rumors dissuade you from experiencing the great cruising grounds and ports of call.

Dennis and Susan Ross
S/V Two Can Play
Marina Palmira
La Paz, BCS, Mexico


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

¨OK all,

This is a direct reply posted on the Southbound group by a couple that we know and trust A LOT! We consider them good friends and, are down there NOW. Of every one down there, I would stake it all on what they have to say!!!!!!

You can read the original post at; Yahoo Groups

Here it is.......¨




ok so i didnt realize i have not been in mexico for the last 3 1/2 years.....rodlmffao. i am a tad farther into mexico than are they, however, and i havce been watching the actualities not attending to the rumor mills which are nets, and exactly as accurate as are online forums. 

AND ALSO FUNNY THAT THEY SHOULD SAY EXACTLY THAT WHICH I HAVE BEEN SAYING.....


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

ziiiiiiiiiiiiiing!


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

zeehag said:


> ¨OK all,
> 
> This is a direct reply posted on the Southbound group by a couple that we know and trust A LOT! We consider them good friends and, are down there NOW. Of every one down there, I would stake it all on what they have to say!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I know you have been there some time now, I should have said that. I was just posting *another "on the spot report"* to back up what you said also.

It seems that so many people go ballistic without ALL of the facts! From our cruising there for over 5 years, we loved it. But, also saw many boats & people who flaunted the laws, then were the first to holler the loudest when they were caught.

The one thing that caught my eye was the note about the USCG number in the Hull number spot on the document. THAT could happen easily.

Greg


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yup my small h28 was coast guard documented..when we cruised in 2000-01.it was much more of a hassle because it was stamped inside the mast beam in the cabin.... we didnt stay in marinas much BUT we did take day trips inland...

every single time most of the guys were looking for cf numbers...to note also back in the day it was a little more relaxed....I knew plenty of sailors with expired DMV pink slips...2 or 3 year backed regsitration stickers...or similiar and that was bareley an issue for most mexican offiicials

I do remember though that some things like misspelings and wrong dates was a big NO NO as bureacreats all over the world will tell you so...

you must do it right(in their eyes) or always be wrong and ilegal if you think about it...

anywhoo


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

A "similar" thing with US flagged boats is going on here in Canada. The only difference is Canada doesn't have any rules in place to do anything about it. 
One marina in Sidney BC is full of US flagged boats, multi-million dollar boats.
These boats either never leave the dock or they never leave Canadian waters. These boats are either still here or have never left Canada because their owners are avoiding Uncle Sam. 
I did hear a while ago that the US was going to start cracking down on these tax dodgers and a lot of boats did leave, but many are still here rotting away. Since Canada doesn't have the capacity to do anything, the marinas are not going to do anything either. It's the marina's cash cow and it is effecting our moorage fees up here. 
It costs the same to moor a boat in Sidney BC as it does in downtown Seattle.
Here is another scenario.
Someone sails their boat down to Mexico and doesn't want to bring it back. This happens a lot. So, it sit's in Mexico rotting away. Sound familiar?
The owner grows tired of this and puts it up for sale. Some poor sod buy's it at a fire sale price and never brings it back into his native country. 
No taxes are paid and the buyer thinks this is great, he got a screaming deal and saved on the taxes too.
This new owner may never have had the chance to enter Mexico but he owns a boat down there or he has used it but leaves it down there for his holidays.
Under these rules that boat is toast.
I predict a lot of people traveling to Mexico in the near future to pick up their boats in an effort to try and bring them home. Good luck.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeoup.....
I scouted 4 boats or so in mexico as it was easier or faster to bring down to el salvador

NOT

most where in barra de navidad, as permanent dry storage
they all had issues with paperwork

all owners lived stateside and where not there for immediate showing

just saying


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

> A "similar" thing with US flagged boats is going on here in Canada. The only difference is Canada doesn't have any rules in place to do anything about it.
> One marina in Sidney BC is full of US flagged boats, multi-million dollar boats.
> These boats either never leave the dock or they never leave Canadian waters. These boats are either still here or have never left Canada because their owners are avoiding Uncle Sam.
> I did hear a while ago that the US was going to start cracking down on these tax dodgers and a lot of boats did leave, but many are still here rotting away. Since Canada doesn't have the capacity to do anything, the marinas are not going to do anything either. It's the marina's cash cow and it is effecting our moorage fees up here.


Huh ???



> Rules on over-wintering foreign boats not new, says border services agency
> Published on September 06, 2013
> Print
> 
> ...


Rules on over-wintering foreign boats not new, says border services agency - Local - Cape Breton Post


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

benesailor said:


> Huh ???
> 
> Rules on over-wintering foreign boats not new, says border services agency - Local - Cape Breton Post


Exactly, so if you own a marina and are financially dependant on foreign boats mooring in your marina are you going to report that infraction to the authorities. 
That would be financial suicide. If you talk to anyone down there they all know what's going on. All the yacht management companies make a killing off of it. None of these boats are there for actual repairs. They just sit there year round and never move.
This isn't just a couple of boats, it's the majority of boats in this one particular marina. Other marinas have some American boats but this marina is 60-70% or more American boats from various different States. There's even one from Lake Meade.
The biggest problem with our system is it is complaint based and not proactive like Mexico. 
Nice find on the rules but Canada doesn't have the capacity to do anything about it without a formal complaint. To do that you would need evidence. 
In Canada you are still innocent until proven guilty.
Although this is a Federal issue you might want to brush up on your geography. I'm just saying. =)


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

christian.hess said:


> yeoup.....
> I scouted 4 boats or so in mexico as it was easier or faster to bring down to el salvador
> 
> NOT
> ...


sounds like it could be a good time to go boat shopping in Mexico


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

mad_machine said:


> sounds like it could be a good time to go boat shopping in Mexico


We know Bara as well as we know our own town, my wife's family has been going there every year for over 30 years.
We don't know of any dry storage for boats let alone a place to haul them out. I also don't think I would touch a boat in Mexico until things settle down and all of this gets resolved. 
Now Canada on the other hand, there are some nice boats sitting in Van-Isle Marina. I would seriously doubt they are all there legally. There's just too many in one marina. 
It's also the most expensive marina. You pay your money and we'll keep quiet about things marina.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

dry storage was pushing it...they were hunkered out if you will...barra is a common place to leave your boat for a while

my point was the owners were all out of the country and all boats there had been there for years, most had issues with back logged papers...

barra was just an example

I ended up buying a boat in halfmoon bay, ca as all the issues said before were non existant, went to dmv, had a pink slip the same day since the po was a 3a insrurance member and all was good it was also cheaper beleive it or not

anywhoo


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I found this on the CBSA's website. 
Basically, if you bring your boat into Canada and leave it here for more than 6 months without paying 15% of the boats value in taxes, it will be considered an illegal import and you will lose your boat to our Government. 
And I thought Mexico was being unreasonable.

Recreational boats

The master of a recreational boat is the person in charge. As master of the recreational boat, he or she is required to go to a designated telephone reporting marine site and call the telephone reporting centre at 1-888-226-7277. No one except the master may leave the boat until the CBSA gives authorization.

Note
To find designated telephone reporting marine sites in your area, call 1-888-226-7277.

The master is required to follow these steps:
•give the full name, date of birth and citizenship for every person on the boat;
•give the destination, purpose of trip and length of stay in Canada for each passenger who is a non-resident of Canada; 
•give the length of absence for each passenger who is a returning resident of Canada;
•give the passport and visa information of passengers, if applicable;
•make sure all passengers have photo identification and proof of citizenship documents;
•declare all goods being imported, including firearms and weapons;
•report all currency and monetary instruments totaling CAN$10,000 or more;
•for returning residents of Canada, declare all repairs or modifications made to goods, including the boat, while these items were outside Canada; and 
•give true and complete information.

If no verification is necessary, the border services officer at the TRC will provide a report number to the master. The receipt of this report number will constitute release unless an officer on-site otherwise instructs the master.

If verification is to be conducted, the border services officer at the TRC will advise the master to remain at the site and to ensure that all goods and passengers remain on board until the verification team arrives. The verification team will conduct the verification and provide the master with a report number.

The master must give this number to a border services officer upon request.

Return to Top of Page

What are the import restrictions?

All travellers can import goods for their personal use. U.S. residents must return all goods to the United States that they imported into Canada unless those goods were consumed while they were in Canada.

If you import any promotional materials, including samples, commercial goods, or equipment, you have to clear your importations through a commercial broker, pay duty and taxes, or provide security, as required.

Travellers cannot import controlled, restricted or prohibited animals, plants or goods as described in the publications called I Declare (for Canadian residents) or Visitors to Canada and Other Temporary Residents (for U.S. residents). These publications are available on our Web site at Welcome to the Canada Border Services Agency | Bienvenue à l'Agence des services frontaliers du Canada.

There are restrictions on importing alcoholic beverages and tobacco products into Canada. For more information, see the publications called I Declare or Visitors to Canada and Other Temporary Residents. You cannot import prohibited firearms or weapons including mace, pepper spray and stun guns. If you plan to import firearms or weapons, for hunting or for a competition for example, read and follow the procedures stated in the publication called Importing a Firearm or Weapon into Canada.

Are there penalties?

You will be subject to random examinations to ensure that you comply with customs and immigration legislation as well as any other legislation administered or enforced by the CBSA.

Depending on the severity of the violation, the CBSA can impose penalties and seize any goods and any aircraft or boat used to carry the goods. As well, you may be subject to criminal prosecution.

The CBSA can arrest and remove non-residents of Canada for violations of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

CBSA programs for registered trusted travellers

CANPASS and NEXUS programs streamline the border clearance process for pre-approved, low-risk travellers into Canada and the United States. For more information, please consult the publication called I Declare or Visitors to Canada and Other Temporary Residents.

Need more information?

For more information within Canada, call the Border Information Service at 1-800-461-9999 .From outside Canada, call 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long distance charges will apply). Agents are available Monday to Friday (08:00-16:00 local time / except holidays). TTY is also available within Canada at 1-866-335-3237.

You may obtain further information by consulting the publications (Guides and Brochures) available on the CBSA Web site at Welcome to the Canada Border Services Agency | Bienvenue à l'Agence des services frontaliers du Canada.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

christian.hess said:


> yeoup.....
> I scouted 4 boats or so in mexico as it was easier or faster to bring down to el salvador
> 
> NOT
> ...


there IS in water marina x 2 here. one is semi-permanently shoaled into a set of 3 canals dredged long ago for condos on water with private slippage. some of these have self made haulout facilities, therefore is private storage. other than those, there is no long term haulout facility here in barra de navidad.

no one here in barra de navidad met jackboots. sorry to say the above quoted report was inaccurate. i have been here all summer long and know what occurred. sorry. mebbe stories you invent should include places wherein no one has been visiting intensively.

jackboots went to no ones homes to check boats.

farthest south the purge occurred was banderas bay, wherein a friend of mine who livesaboard was affected.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I've been reading a lot about Mexican and Canadian laws with regards to this, as my wife and I plan to make this trip to Mexico one day and I can only come up with one conclusion.
Basically, and I am talking about both Canadian and Mexican law, this is an anti-dumping law. These laws are directed at everything from cars to rv's and yes boats too. It's a liability issue that is being enforced through tax and emigration law.
If you leave your boat in Mexico or Canada and something goes wrong it will be a big problem for the country that has your boat. Multiply that by a few thousand boats and the potential liability is huge.
What if your $50,000 boat sinks while you are not around and pollutes the surrounding area. It's unlikely that you will do the right thing and go take responsibility for that. It's even more unlikely that your insurance company will reimburse a foreign countries expenses for the clean up, even if you are legit. What if there is a storm and thousands of foreign owned boats are wiped out? Who's going to pay for that?
Canada's approach to these anti-dumping laws are much more expensive than Mexico's and they include the right to throw you in jail for leaving your boat unattended without the proper paperwork in place. Even the proper paperwork has a strict time line and you will be asked to remove your boat from the country or import it and pay the dues owed if you let things laps. 
Fifteen percent import fee on a half a million dollar boat can get expensive.
The only difference I can see between the two countries is that Canada is reactive toward most of our laws where as Mexico is being proactive. As a result some people in Mexico are getting unduly wrapped up in this sweep. That's what happens when you paint with a brush that is too big, you tend to spill a bit. 
Canada on the other hand won't take action without a direct complaint and even then it is unlikely that they will look at the boat moored next to the one in question.
The best thing one can do when taking your boat into another country is to take it back home with you.
You wouldn't leave an rv in the bush after a camping trip so why would you leave your boat in a foreign country after you sail it there?
That's my final uke on this, thanks for reading.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

mexico also requires third party insurance FROM MEXICAN COMPANIES or companies which are in part based here in mexico. yes, boat us insurance wont cut it. sorry.
there are so many abandoned boats owned by citizens of usa and canada here as the folks who arrived in them either were scared of cruising or didnt feel like going farther and couldnt manage to return their boats to their own residencies. this is shameful behavior, and is disrespectful of mexico, as is dissing the federales in international forums. both have been practiced heavily by some folks who arrived via boat then flew home without their allegedly precious boats.
it is a serious offense to litter such large items...but then i figger with the example of our govt leaving our trash in space, why shouldnt citizens of usa have a crappy attitude about their leftovers. and then ye worry about those plastic rings from your beer cans,...get real folks. no one likes a hypocrite.
i have witnessed less and less responsibility for actions by usa citizens over past decades. this is shameful and reflects badly on all folks who come out to travel from usa. mebbe citizens of usa can learn accountability from mexicans. 
we can only hope.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

So........if I go to Canada I can violate all the Canadian laws I want to unless I put a flashing neon sign on my boat that says ILLEGAL, but in Mexico my boat can be impounded for a few days or maybe forever because someone else did something to annoy the Mexicans? Maybe they need to swap officials for awhile.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

zeehag said:


> there IS in water marina x 2 here. one is semi-permanently shoaled into a set of 3 canals dredged long ago for condos on water with private slippage. some of these have self made haulout facilities, therefore is private storage. other than those, there is no long term haulout facility here in barra de navidad.
> 
> no one here in barra de navidad met jackboots. sorry to say the above quoted report was inaccurate. i have been here all summer long and know what occurred. sorry. mebbe stories you invent should include places wherein no one has been visiting intensively.
> 
> ...


I dont understand and why all of a sudden Im inventing stuff

I should of said I scouted about 3 or 4 boats that were exactly where you say the canals...and one was up on the hard, this was 6 years ago...sorry for the confusion

I dont know who jackboots is and Im sorry you think Im inventing stuff...

I ended up buying a boat in california quiote a while later around 2 years ago in halfmoon bay cause the owners of the boats in barra, and nearby where not available for show...I was in el salvador and though a quick trip to mexico would be easier than going to the states, indeed it wasnt regarding paperwork, showing the boat etc...

wow man...I thought one could speak freely here apparently everything has to have quotations, exact dates and testimony regarding every thing you say...

Ill just keep quiet...

really wow...

ps. I was backing your thoughts and ideas up btw...having cruised ALL of the pacific coast of mexico before you...all of it...stuff changes in 10 years or so...but still...

peace to all


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

christian.hess said:


> <Snip>
> .... I was backing your thoughts and ideas up btw...having cruised ALL of the pacific coast of mexico before you...all of it...stuff changes in 10 years or so...but still...
> 
> peace to all


I think what a lot of people don't seem to realize is "stuff changes"! And in Mexico, it changes fast and often.

A short story, ... 
The VERY BEST rib-eye steak I ever had (to this day) I had at a restaurant in La Paz. 
Less than a week later, I had one of the worst rib-eye steaks I have ever had, AT THE SAME restaurant!! 

The same thing works for all aspects of life in a foreign country.

Greg


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I understand that completely I own a restaurant in el salvador, think I gan get a cook to care about cooking some mahi the same way EVERY TIME? NOPE

...what I dont understand is why people cant see another point of view or even respect something different to them

I know what you mean...I live a dual life, one as a view from the states and the other as a view from el salvador...in 2 languages...all the time as a way of life...the least I should get is a hey ok...thanks for that thought or whatever...but no...really hard here.

it just sucks to not be able to express your self always in a way that appeases all...its an impossibilty I have learned especially on forums...apparently one comes across as a know it all or as cocky etc...

my point was at that time when I was scouting for boats in mexico it was harder to buy a boat in mexico and deal with the paperwork or lack therof and take it out of the country...than buying in califronia for example...like a post I mentioned before...

maybe the boats and owners I was talking to in barra and therabouts where just not wanting to be cooperative or who knows

one guy would not show the boat unless I paid a deposit upfront...TO SHOW!(maybe cause his paperwork was jacked up, or because he owed dry storage or haulout, whatever dont know)

just saying...again this was in 2006-7 or so...I was in el savador(Im back again) and a ride up there by car was 2 or 3 days out...better than flying to the states and more fun...

anywhoo

peace once again


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> I think what a lot of people don't seem to realize is "stuff changes"! And in Mexico, it changes fast and often.
> 
> A short story, ...
> The VERY BEST rib-eye steak I ever had (to this day) I had at a restaurant in La Paz.
> ...


Rule Number Zero - All other rules are subsumed under this -

RULE #0: Specifications are subject to change without notice, rhyme or reason.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

barra has changed a lot in 6 years. that back marina is not active and seems to be used for storage of boats that do not move. 
the `primary wet storage for boats here is way expensive and caters to megas. there is no public dry storage nor hauling facility here.
as no one keeps boats here in summer, i believe we were spared, also as we were not in the areas the individual pointed at during his bragging sessions.
if i came across pointed at you, christian hess, i didnt mean to...there have been so many stories regarding the federales with their approach to the impoundment of boats with papers that have discrepancies..one discrepancy noted was the difference between official number and the hin, which are not going to match in usa boats as our official number is our document number. our hin is a different entirely number, but should also be on the document.
old regime required window mounting of tip.. new one desires that tip with all other documents for boat and you. go figger. copies of all documents plus visas are to be in files in marina where you slip boat. if not in a slip, seems we are safer?? i have yet to figger that one out.
here, the port capt has a rescate boat from which he checks on names of anchored boats. not everyone checks in. 
there is no mordida being sought -- merely compliance. 
many from usa think it is usa and dont need to bother with the fact that if you leave your boat is supposed to leave with you. some who do leave and return on regular bases make sure marina knows situation and takes care of the tenants. many marinas here do not concern selves with tenants, as tenants are plentiful, even at higher than sky rates in high season.
there are many on the hard stored boats in baja and northern mainland mexico, as folks bring them down and leave them there. 
one broker brags on having over 200 boats for sale. wow...he has 5 branches in the area, nothing south of mazatlan. they are not selling like hotcakes anymore, so he is stuck with so many boats he wont be able to sell. there are many others not in brokerage just sitting on hard rotting to death. is same problem california has been faced with over past few decades. what to do with all these boats....cannot destroy them as someone owns em. some even have rent fees paid in full, some do not have fees paid at all.... there is still the predicament of what to do with all this trash left behind. absentee owners still see the boat in condition they bought it...so they do not request reasonable money for their now derelict trash. as they have not seen boat in 5-6 or more years, they havent seen what time does to the boats abandoned. i have yet to see one in the bristol condition that the ad states the boat is in. go figger.
so, combined with the spew that was flung on intwerwebs by the individual badmouthing mexican authorities, there is a good reason to purge the country of trash left behind. and mebbe even punish the mouth that roared,as where there is smoke there is definitely fire. 
remember, here you are GUILTY until you prove yourself innocent.
if you are innocently impounded, then make your self compliant.
PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. 
is easy. has been done by more than one soul on a same day basis. wtf anyway is the big deal about being compliant in someone elses country. remember, we are not at home here. we are visitors.

yes stuff changes here, however, it is usually each regime that is voted into power that changes their stuff for themselves...i think that is every 6 or 12 yrs. so isnt sudden and not without notice. we may not consider the change in govt as important, but it is the factor in change in mexico.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I was just surprised it came from you thats all being that you understand how stuff works there...and are currently there...

same thing happens here, banana republic, each govt...switches every 5 years, so there is no continuity of the good or bad if you will

clean slate, people in that alcaldia, district, or govt lose their job and slash all previous work done...there is no love for the job, just who your boss is at the time(corruption? of course)

sad sad sad...

in any case sorry I got defensive...

back to the original topic I have an inkling that most boats will be "aquitted" jajaja and that only those that are flagrantly ignoring mexican maritime law and imigration law will suffer the consequences but that is good in my view as it will remove those people that abuse the system...whether they like it or not, not having your paperwork and all pertinent papers regarding you and your boat correct and available for show is wrong.

barring some instances like the HIN number not showing right or documented boats having the number inside unlike most dmv registered boats in the states for example is just a bad casualty... in essence a good move to purge problems in mexican marinas

again my point of view not everyones I know

when we cruised we avoided all marinas just cause the point was to cruise and anchor...only in emergencies did we stop...mazatlan, pv and huatulco did we use marinas

peace


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i only use marinas in summer during season of lowest rents and air conditioning and furycames..... other than that, even sin machina, i am hooked into muck with hardly any water under keel,and then only at high tide..i sit on my keel now at low tides....i dont mind, as i wont drag anchor that way and i know i can sit on keel without problems or listing....
i usually repair best in marinas as we can abuse electricity maximally....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

zeehag said:


> ..... mebbe citizens of usa can learn accountability from mexicans.
> we can only hope.


You mean the few million that illegally immigrate to the US? :laugher

Mexico has no claim to superiority.


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

Seriously, I read all these posts. At no point does it sounds like the Mexican government is trying to do the "right thing" or "protect" their pristine waters or deal with "abandon" boats..

It reads that they are trying to punish someone for something and cost people a ton of money to do so.

If they were really trying to facilitate tourism in their country you would be able to send away for a "cruising" kit and learn actually 100% what is required and how to go about doing so; step by step.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

azguy said:


> Seriously, I read all these posts. At no point does it sounds like the Mexican government is trying to do the "right thing" or "protect" their pristine waters or deal with "abandon" boats..
> 
> It reads that they are trying to punish someone for something and cost people a ton of money to do so.
> 
> If they were really trying to facilitate tourism in their country you would be able to send away for a "cruising" kit and learn actually 100% what is required and how to go about doing so; step by step.


Except that they are not asking for more money, just that people are actually follow the laws. The have a BIG issue with abandoned boats. I doubt this was actually in reaction to someones posting on the internet, I imagine that was partially coincidence and perhaps accelerated the issue. I believe the more likely explanation is the fact that drug cartels had taken over certain marinas and there was concerns of the legality of the boats there. (used for drug smuggling and money laundering) And to prevent people from dumping there old run down boats there. How is it costing people a ton of money? They left there boats there, likely many if not most of them without the correct paperwork. So what is the most it will cost? A flight down to provide the correct paperwork?

Most of the the forms are not all are available online and payments can be made there as well, I think that is pretty easy. Sound much easier than bringing a boat to the US.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

does the US offer a cruising kit? comon guys quit the we are better attitude and most things will pass with no issue

I clearly remember coming back to the states after a coast to coast cruise into key west

not only were the dock officiasl and "customs" or lack therof officials completely ignoramus, they were also the rudest...and most unproffesional customs and immigration officials we encountered in all of our cruise...thats says a lot!

not only that we did the right thing by checking in by call 24 ahead of time...they had no clue what we where even doing on trying to do...

it would of been so easy to go up to my grandpas place in ft lauderdale on his dock(which we did after a stop in the keys) unload a couple of "aliens" 2 kilos of coke and all sorts of stupid stuff COMPLETELY unnoticed...

before getting all high and mighty one must learn and look at your own turf...

the us has some of the worst immigration and border officials...even at airports...yes I said it and I can be quoted to all hell and back

being both a us citizen and salvadorean I can 100% and most confidently express that the worst treatment I get is when entering the us by any means I have done all 3...come down here and it sometimes *does *feel like you are coming back to paradise

like they say a smile does wonders

just sayin

mexico might not be superior but as an unbiased point of view I can positively say I like a girl or woman port aouthority official or marina manager that speaks english and tries to bend over for you as a cruiser than some snuffy idiot port captain or marina manager like I had to deal with in monterey california, all superior, couldnt care less...he was so cool in his topsiders and manager foulies...

just sayin again

youd be surprised how much you really dont know when you get out there

so easy to be sitting on a computer and saying we are superior...

what a load

peace once again


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

miatapaul said:


> Except that they are not asking for more money, just that people are actually follow the laws. The have a BIG issue with abandoned boats. I doubt this was actually in reaction to someones posting on the internet, I imagine that was partially coincidence and perhaps accelerated the issue. I believe the more likely explanation is the fact that drug cartels had taken over certain marinas and there was concerns of the legality of the boats there. (used for drug smuggling and money laundering) And to prevent people from dumping there old run down boats there. How is it costing people a ton of money? They left there boats there, likely many if not most of them without the correct paperwork. So what is the most it will cost? A flight down to provide the correct paperwork?
> 
> Most of the the forms are not all are available online and payments can be made there as well, I think that is pretty easy. Sound much easier than bringing a boat to the US.


I cant imagine what sort of crap deal it would cost me to bring my boat to the east coast of the us...we plan to go up to the states for a while...but Im sure or at least quite positive that being foreign flagged will be some sortbof issue at least for 6 months to a year span...

anywhoo

sorry for the rant but sometimes man...so much hate for no reason at all


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Because it's been a mite tense & serious hereabouts lately, I offer *A Cartoon*.

...and for you youngsters who don't get it, mimeograph.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

NO ONE IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD.
as for comparing the mexicans who love their country to the ones who are impoverished in border towns who come to usa illegally to those remaining in mexico --. the real mexicans-- is like comparing a boat bum to the capt of maltese falcon. there is much national pride in those who do love mexico, and to diss them, as you have done is plain rude and shows incredible bigotry.

WHAT IS OCCURRING HERE IS A COMBO OF THINGS.
TOO MANY GRINGOS HAVE LEFT THEIR UNWANTED BOATS(TRASH) IN MEXICO. IS A PROBLEM, BIG TIME, YES. also, many visitors in mexico refuse to comply with visa requirements, and find falsified papers, which is what the jerko roared about being able to find easily in baja and mazatlan and banderas bay. (reading this, as a federal officer, what would you do..LOL)
too many gringos have dissed mexico to the faces of authorities. that is plain rude.
there is a good attemp`t in mexico by federales to clean up the visa and entry difficulties and standardize all checking into mexico and visa situations. this is good. no mordida. 

you would be surprised at how up do adate mexico is technologically... usa citizens think they have uit all.. buut fo rhow much dough to buy a samsung galaxy fame android 4...lol is only 150 usd here...try that is usa. and that is with a good data program..lol
the tracking of visitors is done by port capt...whether you check in or not--port capt will find you and keep track of your movements, as is within their job description.

there is a lot more friendliness here for cruisers than i have witnessed in san diego, kali, at present.

enjoy your cruising, or desk riding, depending on your chosen sailing mechanism.

we who are cruising here are enjoying this location and hoping yáll stay away so we can have it for a longer time. 
make sure your papers are in order and your visas are good, and follow the guidelines for the papers you acquire in mexico.
happy sails.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

You go Zeehag! Mexico is and was wonderful. Not any different then any other place we have cruised. fill out the papers, follow the easy rules and enjoy. The folks from turd water usa will never get out anyway. Viva La Mexico!


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

NO ONE IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD.
as for comparing the Americans who love their country to the ones who are leaving their boats in Mexico illegally to those remaining in the USA --. the real Americans -- is like comparing a boat bum to the capt of maltese falcon. there is much national pride in those who do love the USA, and to diss them, as *YOU * have done is plain rude and shows incredible bigotry.

Just say'n.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

^^^^^^ how could it be said better than in their own words.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

americans...great way to put it...Im american x2...

get it?

lots of ignorant people cant get that, just sayin

bigotry and ignorance works both ways...take facts and deal with them how you like

its so easy to simply take one side...say stuff like real americans are those that live in the states, noy those that travel or set up life ine a paradisiacal island or what?

the same thing happens down here...many people say that those central american people who abandon their countries for job seeking or a better horizons arent real salvadoreans or guatemalans etc...

another ignorant thought.

anywhoo

I tend to think on tangents too much so Ill say goodbye...dont want or feel the need to make this a social political conversation on mexico vs. the united states of america, but on threads like this its almost inevitable so 

peace once again

hope it all works out for the 338 clan


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## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

Sorry...late to this tangent...



mad_machine said:


> ...the best part of visiting another country is interacting with the locals.. unless you are going to Paris. Even the French who live outside of Paris do not like interacting with the Parisians.  (yes.. I got this from a Frenchwoman who grew up near Normandy)


My wife and I traveled to Paris in '01 (pre 9/11) and found Parisians friendly and helpful. And we were obvious tourists. I had brushed up on my high school French enough to ask directions, and usually caught about half the answer...:laugher



mad_machine said:


> I am a native of South Jersey, which is fairly accentless


I used to think that too (about myself), Art. Actually I've learned that accents here are can be distinguished by town by town.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Apparently clueless arrogant Americans are caught up in this net. Someoen who has been to Mexico like 20 times or more - likely a lot more - and in fact organized trips to Mexico would never be caught up in this. A person like that would be in tune with their culture and legal requirements. Oh wait.........



Argyle38 said:


> NO ONE IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD.
> as for comparing the Americans who love their country to the ones who are leaving their boats in Mexico illegally to those remaining in the USA --. the real Americans -- is like comparing a boat bum to the capt of maltese falcon. there is much national pride in those who do love the USA, and to diss them, as *YOU * have done is plain rude and shows incredible bigotry.
> 
> Just say'n.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

ottos said:


> Sorry...late to this tangent...
> 
> My wife and I traveled to Paris in '01 (pre 9/11) and found Parisians friendly and helpful. And we were obvious tourists. I had brushed up on my high school French enough to ask directions, and usually caught about half the answer...:laugher


Jill and I back-packed through Europe in 01. We spent time in France and Paris also. We had A GREAT TIME! Everyone we met was friendly and helpful. Did NOT have one problem in France.

Greg


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i am deeply afraid that richard schindler´s attempts to bully mexico out of the impounded, err tagged boats will compound the problem by drawing undue attention on our low profile and even high profile yet advocative existences. 
there are many more than 338 non mexican boats in mexico. there are many very pricey ****** yachts in zihuatenejo for sailfest. 
there are many super wealthy souls living the nice peaceful ex pat life on board south of banderas bay. do these souls need suffer problems because one boat owner and event coordinator has been tagged and cannot remotely release his own boat?

do gringos need exponentially worsen the attitude found here against our ****** way of bullying the little guy into submission???

we are VISITORS in a nation based on a napoleonic law standard. 
usa is not that way. 
life here is different and folks do business with RESPECT not force. 
RESPECT is IN PERSON dressed appropriately and IN SPANISH.
those who disagree need cruise elsewhere and keep a lot lower profile. 
it is only respectful to do business in a nation not your own by remaining within the nations customs and culture.
learn the language of the nation you visit..all business and legal activities are done in that country´s national language.

when mexican local govt officials ask me " is this guy for real?!" when quoting parts of forums of immense size and international interest...i do not know what to say. most recent was the bunch of postings in another forum by someone cruising here and mouthing off about falsification of papers. that mentioning was regarding only those areas wherein the tagged boats are docked. coincidence????
speech like that can cause a disruption in way of life fro many , not just the one who mouthed off. that fact is not appreciated in usa and north. it is so here, i was asked if that guy was fo rreal by port capt employees and by other local mexican officials. please tellme the actio9ns online of someone mouthing off didnt release the hounds as it were.... it is an unknown as to what was the final straw for mexico what wirth ****** disrespect here. we leave boats forever, we badmouth the results of legal action.. we claim to have RIGHTS in a nation not our own. we bully and try to bully  other nations out of what we want and present as a******s....
what can we do to overcome this latest mayhem,....
how can we return to our lifestyles here comfortably and without disruption. 
it aint gonna happen as long as these bullying actions and bad words continue.
before the two activities done by gringos, there was a nice easy living here. comfortable and inexpensive with caring loving neighbors(=locals).

please forgive my rant..i am not able to physically leave here, as my engine still is immobile. i am using local machine shops and support locals over ****** businesses.
i advocate tourism in mexico. it is awesome here. 
i wish other folks would respect this beautiful and peacefuñl culture and people.


no, most mexican people are NOT like those who are so desirous of crawling across usa border. 
please research this culture before making generalizations about the people of mexico.
please also research before starting a cruise by and thru here. 

if in pacific you wish to bypass mexican waters, learn how far into pacific mexico claims and do not sail past coronado islands on the inside. make your trip many many miles longer by turning right out of point loma and keeping out of mexico at all costs.
make sure your boat is able to accomplish 2 THOUSAND miles without fuel or repairs of any kind. 
.


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## stagman (Dec 3, 2013)

This is why I will never sail in Mexican waters. I know I'm probably missing out and making problems with myself for longer passages, but four years of living in San Diego showed me just how sketchy things can be. One female friend of mine went to Tijuana with a group, (mostly football players so we thought she was "safe") and then a certain Mexican border patrol agent decided her papers were not in order and informed her she would have to pay a $2000 "fee" to leave the country. Her dad payed and she was able to go home, but her brother who was an active SEAL at Coronado issue great offense, and my strong suspicion is that the border guard in question got more than his due. 

I know other anchorages and destinations can be less convenient and more expensive, but it's a small price to pay to live in a civilized society with guaranteed protections and freedoms with little corruption.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

comparing tijuana with mexican cities is like comparing san ysidro with st louis or new york city. or kansas city. or any decent city in usa. lol....tijuana is a huge turista ripoff, not a city of credibility. border towns are border towns. mexico is a great place if you leave gringos out of the equation. mexico is awesome. 
border towns are hell.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Don't judge either Mexico nor the USA only by its bad actors.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Z
how come you dont post your rants on women who sail? 
Plenty of discussion there about fully legal boats with owners aboard who were given the same bad treatment.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

The issue has finally reached the lame stream media US, Canadian boaters left in limbo in Mexico. It will be interesting to see if the US and/or Canadian State Departments get involved. With the advent of "the troubles" we curtailed visits to Mexico 20 years ago and haven't regretted the decision since.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

it will be interesting to see what kind of ramifications come down to those of us who were not tagged and did not make hugeous waves in the process of bucking mexican system to bully and shame mexico into this release of boats that may have been properly tagged as many boats more than 338 are abandoned in mexico without propriety not concern for the mexican govt and the cleanup thereof..many boats are left here after haha by scared or otherwise souls who wont ever sail again for whatever reason and do not care to return their boats to us waters for whatever reason.
most o9f these abandoned boats ar e within the areas wherein this tagging occurred. mebbe mexico is merely tired of accepting trash from usa... consider that possibility. 
the 150 ish boats that come down from usa annually and from which all souls are too thrifty to help mexico´s economy for whatever reason..they leave without contributing to the economy more than minimally. how can rs consider this a help to mexico. mexico has to pay to remove these abandoned boats. where is gain to mexico.
perhaps mexico just got tired of the bs. ever think of that possibility...many possibilities have been thrown around.. how about a little more reality for a change...


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Totally acceptable to march down to the marina with machine guns drawn and place liens on fully documented and properly permitted boats, yea right friendly place ya got there


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

xort said:


> Totally acceptable to march down to the marina with machine guns drawn and place liens on fully documented and properly permitted boats, yea right friendly place ya got there


here we are VISITORS in a different land with different customs and legal base from usa. 
do not bring arrogance or disrespect into mexico or any other place you choose to visit. 
cooperate with local laws and regulations or go away and do not bother to travel. 
carry the appropriate paperwork with you on board.
usa is not the entire world.
you may find more folks on this planet disrespect the usa than you believe at present. i learned this in 1971 when i traveled limitedly in parts of europe. 
i learned then what the term ugly american means in tourism. is a good thing to understand this when you leave the protected borders of usa.
remember, yet again... we are VISITORS in a land other than our own. there are reasons for these maneuvers. there are many rumors as to the reasoning behind these maneuvers.....
there are many nations, not merely mexico, wherein the authorities present with extreme force potential openly. get used to it. could well occur within usa, as things seem progressing towards that actuality. it is already that way in sandy ago, as harbor police present with loaded m 16s in response to calls.....


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

so I heard most of the issues have been resolved cept a few boats...

so it took longer than I expected by a month or so...but it seems the nonsense has been resolved

at least per latitude38 recent articles


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

as for my writings being rants... i am trying to teach you what is the reality in mexico. you dont care to listen. fine
dont visit here.
as for the women who sail group in fazepoo.... i am not a member, as i refuse to be part and party to womens groups who refuse to accept the fact males are abusing their precious forum for women, and i refuse to belong to a fb group that harbors bullies, as does women who sail...er fly from place to place as hubby tries to sail...

.the ladies of sailnet have much more going for them and many more manners....

i know of a different womens group, most all of whom are bona fide CRUISERS under sail,and actually do sail their boats..



i still believe that had many of the individuals dealt with this problem in person in mexico that their problems would have been resolved a lot faster.... HOWEVER.... some were left behind by richards visits... the initial soul who had released his beneteau has since beeen slapped with 7000 usd taxes due to a clerical error in the works back in 2007 or so... and is not able to resolve issues without court and lawyers.,he is a senior living on ssi ,,,,, sooooooo...... he will advise when his personal dealings are completed. 
much of this problem could have been avoided by the ****** with papers actually READING these papers EVERY TIME papers were changed or modified or addendum'ed,as clerks befoul the works on occasion


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

xort said:


> Z
> how come you dont post your rants on women who sail?
> Plenty of discussion there about fully legal boats with owners aboard who were given the same bad treatment.


Why don't you take your "adolescent" rant and post it on the "Idiots Are Us" website. They need more people like you.
And really, been to Detroit lately?
The cops won't even go into some neighborhoods for fear of being shot. Real swell place you have there.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I thought this thread was about impounded boats in mexico...maybe I missed it but last I read 99 percent of it has been resolved with some still ridiculous hassles and fines

all in all I think its almost over

mexorc is currently happening and quite good this year

I have a friend racing with the guatemalan team and all is well


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> I thought this thread was about impounded boats in mexico...maybe I missed it but last I read 99 percent of it has been resolved with some still ridiculous hassles and fines
> 
> all in all I think its almost over
> 
> ...


This is what I understand as well. 
The people who had the proper paperwork in place have had their issues resolved and the few who had discrepancies in their paperwork have not had their issues resolved. It took time but it is Mexico.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

mistreatment did not happen, as these military are very proper and polite. sorry, but the armed response is a typical response. 
when official business is to be done, military are in attendance. this was an official governmental deed....
usa has inspections, as well, labelled vsc....performed by souls without boating or sailing experience.. only thing different is uscg AUX uses no m16s..only harbor police and uscg use them while responding to call outs.....lol so , what is difference, eh?
the best protection from befouled inspections is to READ ALL PAPERWORKS, inclusive of those you believe not to have beeen changed, when you have changes registered. dates may be inadvertently changed, and these clerks have little or no english. this step, the re reading for the fouteeenth time of papers, is on the soul desirous of any paperwork for any reason in any land outside of home nation. 
NEVER ASSUME.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

zeehag said:


> the best protection against alleged mistreatment, which mistreatment did not happen, as these military are very proper and polite. sorry, but the armed response is a typical response.
> when official business is to be done, military are in attendance. this was an official governmental deed....
> usa has inspections, as well, labelled vsc....performed by souls without boating or sailing experience.. only thing different is uscg AUX uses no m16s..only harbor police and uscg use them while responding to call outs.....lol so , what is difference, eh?


Exactly, the 50 caliber machine gun mounted on the bow of most, if not all USCG ships is not just a conversation piece. 
It's there for a reason.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It never ceases to amaze me how the American's are derided for being "ugly", while other countries are defended, because showing up with automatic weapons to check boat papers is cultural.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

unfortunately it is

as a dual citizen I can trully say that I get worse treatment at us airports(and for good reason so I dont complain) than others...

and its not defending these idiots with machine guns that the real issue its more of bad public policy and government honchos doing what they think is right to the tourists...basically its bad case of BUREACRACY badly applied causing issues not welcomed

the whole ugly thing works both ways whatever country you are in...complain about anyone who treats you in an ugly manner

simple


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how the American's are derided for being "ugly", while other countries are defended, because showing up with automatic weapons to check boat papers is cultural.


It's because, as a whole, Americans take on a holier than thou attitude about others when their own situation isn't any better, and in some cases is much worse than other countries.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Dog Ship said:


> It's because, as a whole, Americans take on a holier than thou attitude about others when their own situation isn't any better, and in some cases is much worse than other countries.


That a pretty bigoted generalization.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> ......complain about anyone who treats you in an ugly manner
> 
> simple


That's the answer.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> That a pretty bigoted generalization.


I'm not a bigot. You asked a question and you got an honest answer you didn't want to hear. 
You ask any non-American that question and you will get the same answer.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how the American's are derided for being "ugly", while other countries are defended, because showing up with automatic weapons to check boat papers is cultural.


In America police officers have a murder/mortality rate of 21.8 compared with a rate of 23.7 for everyone in Mexico. Yeah, EVERY person in Mexico has the same chance of being killed by violence as a police officer working in the United States, and the murder/mortality rate among police in Mexico is much higher, and you're surprised that the military and government officials carry automatic weapons ?

If you were to talk to one of the officer's wives, how would you explain to her that you want her husband to start doing his job without a rifle ?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

same discussions here but a bit off topic nonetheless

the dilema here is not gun or not for police officers but simply that no police officer now is expected to put their life on the line for such measly pay...so its a given...

same happens for favelas in brazil or the ghettos in the states or some wretched un ruled somali city etc...

anywhoo back to mexico

I heard of one boat that still has a $7k fine for having something out of order but not theor fault...

it was a Beurocrat who misstyped something in the TIP and bam fine for the owner cause he didnt notice it...

bummer

see what happens with that story


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> same discussions here but a bit off topic nonetheless
> 
> the dilema here is not gun or not for police officers but simply that no police officer now is expected to put their life on the line for such measly pay...so its a given...
> 
> ...


I've been following this situation as well. Although it was a Mexican official who made an error on their paperwork it is up to the individual to make sure their papers are in order. Sadly, ignorance of the law is no defence in any country.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Dog Ship said:


> I'm not a bigot. You asked a question and you got an honest answer you didn't want to hear.
> You ask any non-American that question and you will get the same answer.


Then let's clear this up. Quote the question that I asked, that caused your answer.

I made an observation of inconsistent standards and you've given your rationale for being inconsistent. A bigoted one, IMO. You should stop by my church and stand up in front and make your observation about our citizens. You obviously have no idea what an average American is like. The vast majority of us are unhappy with our own government. I've also been in every corner of this planet and I'm more likely to find people fascinated by and appreciative of Americans than not. Not perfect, by any means.

Further, the Canadian's seem to admire their Mayor in Toronto. Should I judge all Canadians as crack smoking, drunken idiots? I haven't, as of yet.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

wind_magic said:


> In America police officers have a murder/mortality rate of 21.8 compared with a rate of 23.7 for everyone in Mexico. Yeah, EVERY person in Mexico has the same chance of being killed by violence as a police officer working in the United States, and the murder/mortality rate among police in Mexico is much higher, and you're surprised that the military and government officials carry automatic weapons ?
> 
> If you were to talk to one of the officer's wives, how would you explain to her that you want her husband to start doing his job without a rifle ?


Let's use apples to apples. The murder rate in Mexico per 100,000 is 23.7, as you say. In the US, it is 4.8. I grant you that it is much more violent overall in Mexico than in the US. That would seem to suggest it is a bit more ugly in Mexico, but just the opposite is argued. That was my original point.


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

The fact that the processes of US govt officials gets dragged in to these discussions all the time is just stupid! If you want to start a thread about how you were mistreated by US police or immegration officials, then start that thread. You will probably get a lot of support from other Americans. We are also hit very hard by DHS policies, and most of us, especially cruising types, really really don't like it. Don't believe me? Look up some threads about the Florida FWC. 

But how US officials treat visiting foreigners has nothing at all to do with the policies of Mexican officials (or European governments, or anywhere else) whatsoever. Nothing. If the US government did what the Mexican government did here, it would be just as wrong. Stating that what the Mexicans did here isn't right, and could harm Mexico's reputation as a destination, isn't the same as saying that the US is better, or that it couldn't happen here. If it did, I say again, IT WOULD STILL BE WRONG, and plenty of us would be complaining. And it would be a different thread.

I also don't believe that what we saw here has anything to do with Mexican culture and I say this for a specific reason. I believe that the main contributor to this whole mess is incompetence, and I find it hard to believe that incompetence is a mainstay of Mexican culture. 

In any case, it's good to hear that most boats' issues have been resolved. 

Dogship: Don't be an "Ugly Canadian."


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dog Ship said:


> It's because, as a whole, Americans...


I don't give a flying rat's ass what you say after this phrase. Simply starting out your sentence this way reveals your bigoted group-speak.

Name me one time Americans did ANYTHING "as a whole"?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Name me one time Americans did ANYTHING "as a whole"?


Got fatter? 
Hated New Coke?
Refused to adopt the Metric System?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Then let's clear this up. Quote the question that I asked, that caused your answer.
> 
> I made an observation of inconsistent standards and you've given your rationale for being inconsistent. A bigoted one, IMO. You should stop by my church and stand up in front and make your observation about our citizens. You obviously have no idea what an average American is like. The vast majority of us are unhappy with our own government. I've also been in every corner of this planet and I'm more likely to find people fascinated by and appreciative of Americans than not. Not perfect, by any means.
> 
> Further, the Canadian's seem to admire their Mayor in Toronto. Should I judge all Canadians as crack smoking, drunken idiots? I haven't, as of yet.


The vast majority of people are also allowed to express their unhappiness, unlike so many other places with ugly, abusive governments. THAT's the difference. Try going into those government offices in Mehico and expressing your dissatisfaction with the way they are doing their jobs. Let us hear how that works out for you (if ever heard from again). I get really upset at America bashing. It's mostly JEALOUSY because with all it's faults it is still by far the best place to be.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

ah man this thread just got dumb and way off topic

best place to be is dependant on the person not the place for starters so lets get back on topic


plenty of places where you can go complain and get things done even in our measly countries...and surpirsingly it happens sometimes...


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## ArcherBowman (Jul 1, 2009)

bljones said:


> Got fatter?
> Hated New Coke?
> Refused to adopt the Metric System?


Naw - There's still a FEW thin people left in my circle. Also, there were a few socialists who LEAPT ALL OVER becoming more like Europe. I mean the metric system.

But you may be right about the New Coke. The only people who "liked" it were already Pepsi drinkers, and hated all coke products on principle.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I have heard they require you to carry your passport at all times, in a land of increasing armed robberies, where a passport is extremely valuable on the black market.
Think I'll give Mexico a miss!


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i leave my ppassport at home in the boat where it belongs and carry my visa with me. that is all they want is to see your visa when stopped inside towns during routine checks to prevent trafficking of humans and guns as well as deadly drogas.....
inmy 3 years here in the different estados and ciudades and pueblas i have been able to support with my purchasing of provisions and use of locals to employ for boat repair, i have never been stopped nor checked despite going thru checkpoints. all is well no problem. 
i guess those who fit a specific profile (--yes they do that profile thing here, as it is not unconstitutional-) should be more concerned than those who do not fit this profile. usually, if you appear to be a local, they will stop you. if you look like a ****** turista, they will not bother you. unless you act suspicious.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

Brent Swain said:


> I have heard they require you to carry your passport at all times, in a land of increasing armed robberies, where a passport is extremely valuable on the black market.
> Think I'll give Mexico a miss!


When we were in Mexico, AND when ever we go foreign, Or even some places in the US (like for Mardi Gras) we use the following method!

WORKS GREAT!!

Greg


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