# Bottom cleaning W/Dock heel?



## seanrobsar (Dec 25, 2010)

Ok i am sure some one has covered this, I just cant find it. 
Another sailor talked about cleaning the bottom of his boat by attaching the main halyard to the dock and heeling the boat. I never tried it. Has any one done this? What might the pitfalls be. I imagine lateral movement by the boat might happen. Should I be woried about the mast? I dont think I need to heel to much. The draft on my C&C 24 is 4'.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

You can pull a 24 footer over by its mast, but its not easy and frankly it does not expose that much of the bottom. And if there are any defects in your rigging you risk the mixed blessing of learning about it the hard way (but at least you are at the dock and not far offshore. Frankly, while I have pulled boats over by their masts for other reasons, it is way too much trouble just to clean the bottom of a 24 footer. 

Obviously in summer the easy thing is to snorkle and clean the bottom with only the keel and rudder being the hard part. If you are not racing there are simple tools that allow you to clean your bottom from the dock. My favorite tool for this is what I jokingly call the Jeff_ H Mark III bottom scrubber. This is can be made for a less than 10 dollars by buying a 12 foot length of 1" electrical conduit (EMT- Electrical Metal Tubing) and carefully bending it using a forked tree into a 'J' shape with the radius slightly larger than your bottom and the curve equal to half your beam. 

Then get a 2 foot or so length of 4" rigid PVC drain pipe. Pack the inside of the PVC pipe tightly with rigid styrofoam (this can ususally be salvaged from foam packing material) into the tube. Drill a 1 1/8" hole through the center of the PVC tube and through the foam. Insert the curved end of the J of the conduit through the hole. Drill an 3/16" hole in the conduit just above and below the 4" PVC. Put an 1/8" dia. bolt each hole and tighten. (There is a fancier, concealed fastening Mk II version where there is a short length of 2 x 4 inside the PVC pipe but that versionis harder to build and the last one that I made I decided that it not worth the effort.) 

Wrap the entire PVC tube with carpet (which can usually be gotten free in small offcut pieces from a carpet installer). The carpet should be longer than the PVC pipe and hang over the ends an inch or more. Screw (with perhaps 3 self-tapping screws each side) the carpet sample over the outside of the pipe with the screws in line with what will the top 1 1/8" hole of the scrubber,and if you really want to get fancy put a crutch tip on the open ends of the EMT. 

Now you are done. Here is how it is used. You stand on deck and sweep it down over the bottom perpendicular to the center line of the boat. The stryrofoam floats the end of the scrubber up against the hull, and the carpet does the scrubbing. You can do the whole boat in less than 10 minutes. If you only draw 4 feet you should be able to do the rudder and keel. 

Jeff


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Or you could do it the proper way.


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## JL (Feb 7, 2005)

You can also use this in between dives: DRI-DIVER - Boat Hull Cleaner, Remove hull growth from the dock


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

The best thing I did for my bottom was buy a wetsuit, flippers, and sponge for myself. The first few times it's weird and you'll bump your head. After that, you get used to holding your breath 3' under water. I do mine once or twice a week in the summer.


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## jgeissinger (Feb 25, 2002)

Or, like Fastbottoms said, you could contract with a professional to do it on a regularly scheduled basis and have it done by someone who knows what he is doing. The bottom will be cleaner and your paint will last longer as well. 

It must be a regional thing, because these questions and various solutions like this come up frequently on this and other boards, yet here in SoCal I don't know anyone who doesn't use a regularly scheduled dive service for bottom cleaning.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Obviously, I'm going to be biased. But I will once again describe the the shortcomings of the Dri-Diver and other, homebuilt versions of the concept:

1.- You cannot control the amount of scrubbing force being appiled to to the hull. Got an ablative paint that requires a real gentle touch? Too bad. Paint in less than perfect condition and needs a little extra elbow grease? Bummer.

2.- You're working blind and you will miss spots, maybe lots of 'em. Guaranteed.

3.- Forget about cleaning the rudder, keel, thru-hulls, transducers and running gear. Not happening.

4.- What's going on with your zincs? Dri-Diver ain't gonna tell ya. And even if it could, it ain't gonna replace 'em.

All-in-all, it's a real half-assed way to go. IMHO, of course.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Some places (marinas etc) prohibit bottom cleaning for various presumably environmental reasons. In that case, while you may get away with some top-side scrubbing, they will be very unhappy at the site of someone in scuba gear with a squeegee on a dock.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

brak said:


> Some places (marinas etc) prohibit bottom cleaning for various presumably environmental reasons. In that case, while you may get away with some top-side scrubbing, they will be very unhappy at the site of someone in scuba gear with a squeegee on a dock.


See, the irony there is that you are much more likely to scrub paint off into the water doing it from the dock than a knowlegable, properly equipped diver is, doing it underwater.

Fortunately, places that do not allow in-water hull cleaning are few and far in between.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

gonna try my dads old idea the marina im in now has a haul out grid and pier just park boat on grid and put on chest waders when tide goes out boat is "on the hard for a couple hours. i draw 3'6" so as soon as keel has settled im in waders and wet. with my use of the boat once a month is plenty here in the PNW. the waders help on days when there isn't much tidal flow during the day. all i need is for less than 4 feet of water. (cheap chest waders 10 bucks cheap sandals to wear with them 5 bucks at walmart) they last a couple years


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

And you'll never get the bottom of the keel.


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## niebur (Aug 14, 2003)

Fstbttms said:


> Fortunately, places that do not allow in-water hull cleaning are few and far in between.


Not so sure about that. I seem to remember that my marina recently put up a sign stating that all Clean Marinas in Maryland discourage or forbid scraping of bottom paint in the water.

Scraping on land requires capturing of paint chips already for years, so this seems way overdue.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

niebur said:


> Not so sure about that. I seem to remember that my marina recently put up a sign stating that all Clean Marinas in Maryland discourage or forbid scraping of bottom paint in the water.
> 
> Scraping on land requires capturing of paint chips already for years, so this seems way overdue.


The discussion is about bottom cleaning, not bottom paint scraping .... cleaning should only remove growth that originated from the water.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

not a problem i keel haul the obnoxious dock mate every other month.
actually the grid is 6x6 beams placed with 12 inch spacing between them so i will be able to get the bottom of the keel every other month all in the parking job.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

"Scraping" is of course, damaging to the paint and is not what we're referring to when we alk about in-water hull cleaning with a carpet or soft pad.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Fstbttms said:


> "Scraping" is of course, damaging to the paint and is not what we're referring to when we alk about in-water hull cleaning with a carpet or soft pad.


Unfortunately, in their "environmental zeal" or whatever else that may be, pretty much all Maryland marinas (at least those that have a "clean marina" designation) now prohibit any type of in-water cleaning, be that scraping or gentle rubbing. That essentially shuts out most of Chesapeake sailors.

Last time I considered doing this, the process entailed taking the boat out into some quiet anchorage for a rendezvous with a diver, which is a PIA for all involved.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

What this means, of course, is that boats are not being cleaned and subsequently burning more fuel and emitting more pollution. All the while, the anti fouling paint is still leaching copper 24/7/365, whether the bottom is cleaned or not. Brilliant.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Fstbttms said:


> What this means, of course, is that boats are not being cleaned and subsequently burning more fuel and emitting more pollution. All the while, the anti fouling paint is still leaching copper 24/7/365, whether the bottom is cleaned or not. Brilliant.


No disagreement from me on that one. Just saying not all people get to use this type of service.

On top of that - pretty much any marina on Chesapeake charges fees to allow contractors to perform any work on a boat.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A friend of mine got a dry-diver or something like it. Consensus of the whole crew? Send it back. 

It is a nice concept but tends to float back up away from the hull, you spend too much time trying to force it underwater AND against the hull at the same time. Then there's problem #2, you can't see too well and it misses patches. And doesn't reach all the way under or down.

And it made for "one more wet thing to put in the lazarette".

Better to buy a suction cup grip (the kind used to lift computer floors or handle glass) and dive on the hull. Or hire a diver, whatever the time and budget allow for.


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

*Not a good idea*

The original question had to do with heeling a boat for the purpose of cleaning the bottom. I have heard of heeling a boat at the dock for the purpose of tuning the rigging. I even heard of it done in an emergency so a thru-hull could be repaired. But, I've never heard of it done just to clean the bottom of a boat.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the water next to a boat that was heeled over. I don't see that you'd gain access to a signficant amount of the hull to make it worthwhile.

I think you'd do much better in hiring a professional to clean and inspect the bottom (one that uses "best practices"). Another route would be to get a hooka and do it yourself.

You're never going to be able to reach the places that probably need cleaning the most (ie keel, prop, rudder) by using anything attached to a pole.

Again, heeling a boat at the dock probably isn't a good idea unless you really know what you're doing.

Cost of mast and rigging vs cost of a diver... you decide.

Just my thoughts,

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## JL (Feb 7, 2005)

hellosailor said:


> A friend of mine got a dry-diver or something like it. Consensus of the whole crew? Send it back.
> 
> It is a nice concept but tends to float back up away from the hull, you spend too much time trying to force it underwater AND against the hull at the same time. Then there's problem #2, you can't see too well and it misses patches. And doesn't reach all the way under or down.
> 
> ...


We have a diver clean on a regular basis, but I find the dry-diver helpful in between. I've had it for 8 years, but haven't experienced your problem #1. It does miss patches though and is not a substiture for a regular thorough cleaning.


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