# Roll-up solar panels



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I am going to cruise more time and I want to stay away from marinas so I need some renewable energy source and I want to have solar panels.

Solar panels in what a boat concerns are not very efficient unless you have ugly, expensive and heavy metal structures to orient them. I don't want that.

There is another way that the technology made available and that are not yet being purposely used on sail boats, I mean roll-up panels. They are sturdy (you can walk over), flexible and can be fixed anywhere and easily re-fixed in another position and when the weather is not fine you can just roll them up and store them in minutes.

I never saw them advertised for specific boat use and the ones I find are smaller and less powerful than what I want. The most approximated one is this one from solar sphere: that produce 18w and have 30,5 cmx185,8 cm.










POWERFILM R15-1200 18W ROLLUP SOLAR PANEL

A similar one with 50cmx 250cm would produce about 40w. If we use two they would produce about 80w and that starts to be very interesting.

They can be mounted on the life lines, to get the sun on the side and it seems to be easy to found a way of adjusting the angle there or over the side walk when the sun is more vertical. While on anchor they can be mounted on both sides of the boom and in many other places.

I would like to hear if someone has been experiencing with it, I mean roll up solar panels and how the electrical connections deal with salt water. That seems to be a major problem to me.

Of course I could dream higher and imagine a genoa that include that kind of stuff ( some films are really very thin and flexible). That would make for a huge saving in power and a very expensive genoa, but in the meantime I think that the other more useful way to get solar energy is on the boat shades.

I would also be interested to know if someone is using foldable panels, the ones that are normally know as military type sun shades, or any kind of foldable panel over and existing sun shade.










Tactical Solar Tents - 750 Watt ETI Part# ETI0021-0053

These type of panels can give you a lot more power. I guess that over a normal sized shade on a 40ft boat they can give you over 100w.

Any thoughts about this would be appreciated and any personal experienced more than welcomed.

...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Great post, Paulo.. we are at a similar juncture with considering solar, and don't want the ungainly structure of rigid panels either.

However at the last boat show we attended we saw some thinner, semi flexible aluminum panels (from Ganz www.cbcamerica.com/ecoenergy ) that could be attached to the deck somewhere convenient (spray hood, perhaps) and they, too, can be walked on. The issue though would be more risk of shading from the boom etc and reduced output. They range from 6W to 55W, the largest being 878x520mm. They looked very robust. The 55W was around $900 CDN, as I recall.

Something like that might also easily be incorporated into a dodger hardtop, but again some shading is going to occur.

Another booth had a relatively flexible panel shown sewn into the dodger canvas top.. rather small but very light and flexible. The canvas maker did not have the brochures of the panel.

We have friends cruising the Caribbean, and this year they took down a panel made by their electronics engineer son-in-law and they put it up on the boom when anchored.. I don't have details but have heard they are very pleased with it.

I think this technology is becoming more affordable all the time.. I'm waiting for the solar/nonskid deck paint!


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

*Here's what I got*

Howdy,
I came to a similar conclusion but instead of a marine/RV panel, I decided to get a rooftop 68W flexible panel from Amazon for $230. Here's the link: Amazon.com: Uni-Solar PVL-68 PowerBond PVL 68 Watt 12 Volt 112-Inch x 15.5-Inch Flexible Solar Panel: Patio, Lawn & Garden.

It performs as advertised, but because it's 10 feet long the mounting does produce new challenges. Originally I imagined I'd stretch it along the lifelines amidships, posting the bottom of the panel out at an angle like wings. However, the panel is relatively heavy/ungainly and doesn't conform well to the curve of my lifelines, so I gave up on that idea during the mounting mock-up phase.

Instead I have it stretched along the top of my boom and tied at the mast and boom end (perfect fit). I had to put a canvas backing on the panel with sleeves for the ropes because this panel comes with a sticky tar back from the manufacturer. I spliced on a 6' electrical cable with waterproof connectors, which when deployed connects to a length of electrical wire (also waterproofed) that I semi-permanently installed along the toe rail and into the charge controller in the lazarette.

This means that the panel is predominantly for use while at anchor, but I can lay it out on the deck if I need the juice while under sail. Of course, with 10 feet of panel you have a much higher instance of shading sections of it with a shroud or other somesuch, and slipperiness could become an issue too if you're clambering around on deck. When not in use, I roll the panel up and toss it in the quarterberth.

I haven't seen anybody else go this route, so I'm somewhat relieved that there are other folks considering it. I'd be interested to know what mounting ideas you have for a flexible solution.

Edit: Here's a link to the type of connectors that are recommended for these panels. They clip together and keep water out when linked. When not linked, you can just make some kind of waterproof sleeve for any exposed wires. Hope this helps! http://www.solar-electric.com/incaforsoelp.html


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## olddog60 (Oct 20, 2011)

JeffBurright said:


> Howdy,
> I came to a similar conclusion but instead of a marine/RV panel, I decided to get a rooftop 68W flexible panel from Amazon for $230. Here's the link: Amazon.com: Uni-Solar PVL-68 PowerBond PVL 68 Watt 12 Volt 112-Inch x 15.5-Inch Flexible Solar Panel: Patio, Lawn & Garden.
> 
> It performs as advertised, but because it's 10 feet long the mounting does produce new challenges. Originally I imagined I'd stretch it along the lifelines amidships, posting the bottom of the panel out at an angle like wings. However, the panel is relatively heavy/ungainly and doesn't conform well to the curve of my lifelines, so I gave up on that idea during the mounting mock-up phase.
> ...


I am looking at using this for my power needs. What controller did you buy?


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

JeffBurright said:


> Howdy,
> I came to a similar conclusion but instead of a marine/RV panel, I decided to get a rooftop 68W flexible panel from Amazon for $230. Here's the link: Amazon.com: Uni-Solar PVL-68 PowerBond PVL 68 Watt 12 Volt 112-Inch x 15.5-Inch Flexible Solar Panel: Patio, Lawn & Garden.
> 
> It performs as advertised, but because it's 10 feet long the mounting does produce new challenges. Originally I imagined I'd stretch it along the lifelines amidships, posting the bottom of the panel out at an angle like wings. However, the panel is relatively heavy/ungainly and doesn't conform well to the curve of my lifelines, so I gave up on that idea during the mounting mock-up phase.
> ...


Nice. when you have photos of the installation please post them.

Yes, that is basically the idea but as you say that panel while flexible is not really studied to be used that way : it has tar on the back for fixing and no other fixation points, I mean no lateral rings, like the ones I have posted on the first post. But the it has a lot of power for a nice price.

I hope the producers with time will notice this segment of market and produce something similar to the one you have without tar (lighter and more flexible) and with lateral rings.

That way the flexibility will be much bigger. You can tie two or three or even four together and make a shade while on anchor, or you can use two on the lifelines while sailing.

Regards

Paulo


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

PCP,

We have been installing solar panels on our Harbor 20s for a number of years. The best panels we have found are not the roll up kind, but the ones of slightly heavier construction. 

There are a couple of brands and usually advertised as 'solar panels you can walk on'

Also note, the key word in trickle as in trickle charge


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

What you need is here:Uni-Solar

I bought one of their 1.6amp panels over 10 years ago (it was about 1/2 of a sq/meter) Very tough stuff. Though I must admit, last time I pulled it out and "tested" it it didn't seem to be making any current. Haven't troubleshooted it any further.

They are the only maker of decent sized flexible panels that I know of. Here is a 136W 24V panel for example.
Uni-Solar PVL-136 PowerBond PVL 136 Watt 24 Volt 216-Inch x 15.5-Inch Flexible Solar Panel: Amazon.com: Patio, Lawn & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@31qdPOusPZL










MedSailor


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

For my controller, like with most other things, I went as cheap as I could. I bought a Coleman Air charge controller kit (Coleman Air 40A Amp Wind/Solar Diversion-Charge Load Controller No Enclosure DLC_CKIT) and put it inside a hobby electronics box from Radio Shack. For the dump load I just wired 2 50W lightbulbs onto the top of the box and have them set to trip off when the battery reaches a certain voltage. This is instead of having the dump load tied directly to the solar panel because I also have a DIY wind generator tied into the same setup.

Here's a picture of the charge controller setup from back before I also had the solar panel wired in. The difference now is that the wiring is a little different and I have the light bulb posts attached to wire crimp sleeves instead of the kludgy putty solution.










Next time I have the panel out I'll take some photos of the overall setup if you're interested.

To your other point, PCP, here's a link to a company that did what you talked about, taking the UniSolar panel and adding a more boat-friendly backing: Energy Del Sol Flexible Solar RV Mat Kit - Solar Panels - Electrical. As you can see, there's a lot of "value added" price tacked on. I far preferred to convert the tar-back.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Hello peeps,

an interesting thread, have you managed to replace the need for shore/generator power completely then, with your use of solar panels?

I have just started noseying around the internet for solar tech and wondering where they can be mounted etc.

For my own boat (full time liveaboard) I would rather have a permanent solution, that provided enough power to keep the batteries topped up and powered all of my liveaboard needs.

I am just starting to put together the calculations to try to ascertain my power needs (year-round) and would love to hear from anybody who has already done this? Particularly if you have found a way to generate enough solar juice to power everything?

I am thinking that the use of the flexible panels, could be applied right the way along both sides of the top of the hull, has anybody done this? The thinking being that although not angled directly at the sun, they would pick up reflections from the water.

Also to find rigid panels of the correct size and shape that could live on top of the roof, and also places like transom could house a panel too

I have seen a few examples of big solar panels being used on top of davits, but I can't help thinking they look rather ugly and would be a little vulnerable in heavy conditions.

If one had the money however I think that most every surface (except the decks) could be covered in photocells (not stuck on, but actually manufactured that way); all of the hull (above the waterline), all of the roof etc much like the solar cars you see in those races. if done properly this would simply look like your boat had a dark blue hull.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

BTW, the solar panels linked to previously are now on special offer! *HURRAY!*

Amazon.com: Uni-Solar PVL-68 PowerBond PVL 68 Watt 12 Volt 112-Inch x 15.5-Inch Flexible Solar Panel: Patio, Lawn & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@31qdPOusPZL


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Good find! As another option, there's a company that makes 3' x 6' flexible panels at 97W. They basically just changed the layout of the cells, but it might make placement on the boat a little easier. The link is here: Xunlight XR12, 97W Thin Film Solar Panel

My concern about your thought to affix panels to the hull is two-fold: 1) I don't think that the reflected light will be as effective at converting energy. I read it somewhere a while back but don't remember the link, sorry. If it's less effective, why have it? Plus if you put it near the top of the topsides you wouldn't actually be getting direct reflection of the water, so it'd be doubly inefficient.

2) The curvature of the hull (both horizontally and vertically) would make a flexible panel bunch up and not lie flat. You'd have to get it specially shaped, I think. This was the problem I had trying to stretch the 10' panel along my lifelines.

As for meeting all your power needs, IMO it will depend on whether you plan to have refrigeration. I haven't yet put my setup to the liveaboard test, but I expect that I'll probably come up short and need to add additional sources of generation.

Cheers,
Jeff


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

JeffBurright said:


> Good find! As another option, there's a company that makes 3' x 6' flexible panels at 97W. They basically just changed the layout of the cells, but it might make placement on the boat a little easier. The link is here: Xunlight XR12, 97W Thin Film Solar Panel
> 
> My concern about your thought to affix panels to the hull is two-fold: 1) I don't think that the reflected light will be as effective at converting energy. I read it somewhere a while back but don't remember the link, sorry. If it's less effective, why have it? Plus if you put it near the top of the topsides you wouldn't actually be getting direct reflection of the water, so it'd be doubly inefficient.
> 
> ...


Hi Jeff,

Thank you for your reply, most appreciated.

I cannot say for certain (as I have little knowledge of solar panels) but I was under the impression that modern solar panels will still produce 'some' energy even if they are not getting direct sunlight, whilst yes I agree that they produce the most energy when in direct sunlight, that they will still produce something.

As I say I am just trying to think of where I can put them as a permanent fix, and although the hull sides were not ideal I thought they will pick up 'some' light and they would be out of the way.

Although my boat (shopping for a pearson 37) does not have teak decking, I didn't want to put solar panels on the decks for fear of slipping hazzard. they are tough enough to walk on I'm sure but I am yet to see non-slip panels!
*Hey maybe there's a new niche market sector!*

fitting along the hull sides with one piece would be ambitious, but looking at the curve of my boat (soon soon soon!) I think you could go along the hull with two thin strip say 6inches tall (one running from the bow and one running from the stern (to allow for the little porthole), not on all boats but have a look at the pic below, it's quite a slender hull shape... What do you think?








I guess the only thing would be to buy something similarly inflexible and see what happens!

I am glad that others are chiming in to this thread, it will be interesting to see who manages to achieve a year-round liveaboard from solar power!
and how it was done!


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

There are basically 2 types of panel construction for solar panels out there (warning, this information may be a little dated in a rapidly changing market).

Crystalline panels are by FAR the most common. They are divided up into cells, which are usually square and visible. Each cell provides a set voltage. The total number of cells, with sunlight applied, provide the charging current and sufficient voltage to "push" electrons into your batteries. 

The problem arises when you shade a cell. Now, you've got enough current for lots of charge, but suddenly you don't have enough voltage to "push" that current into your battery. No charging happens now. 

Manufacturers get around this by putting more than the required number of cells into a panel in order to allow for partial shading. If the voltage is too high, it can always be down-regulated. Still, shade enough panels and you get zilch current. 

The other type of panel is the thin film panel. These are the ones that have been around for a long time and you have likely seen them in solar powered calculators (remember those?). These panels are MUCH more shade tolerant and will always produce the correct voltage so long as there is some light. They will just produce less and less current as the amount of light decreases. 

Solar calculators with their thin film panels work indoors with ambient light remember? They have excellent shade tolerance. Thin film panels are also CHEAPER to manufacture per watt (once again this info may be dated). The reason they're not as popular as crystiline is that they're less efficient in the WATT/SQUARE FOOT measurement. i.e. it takes a bigger (but less expensive) panel to create the same number of watts. 

I did some experiments with my Unisolar thin film flexible panel a few years ago. I measured the voltage (19.something volts) with a voltmeter and slowly turned the panel upside down. With only a corner of the panel turned slightly off the deck it would read 19V. I couldn't measure amps and it would have been 0.0001amps I'm sure, but it proved how shade tolerant they are. For me, living in the PNW shade tolerance was key. 

I really like the thin film panels myself. On top of the bimini is a great spot for them and on a sailboat, everything gets partially shaded, and they're cheaper. But if maximum power in the smallest space is your goal and you don't mind rigid panels, then crystalline is the way to go.

MedSailor

PS I like the look of that 97W panel! 

PPS There was a European company a couple years back that was marketing a stick-on thin-film panel that would be mounted on the topsides of the hull of a sailboat. It was about 6" wide and looked quite decorative (think racing stripe) and used the reflected sun from the water for power. Remember, thin-film can use any available light.


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Hi all, 
As an update to this topic, I have some pictures of my flexible solar setup posted to my website here:

Take to the sea: Cheap and complicated, just like me

The solar setup is at the bottom of the page. I recycled a lot of the language, but it shows that I came back around to a lifeline-mounted solution, which seems to be working well so far (so far being about 12 hours).

Let me know what you think!


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## allio (Jun 25, 2012)

structural considerations?

A large, robust, fixed structure attached to structural hardpoints is surely safer than a soft, pliable unit loosely affixed to the deck somewhere?

I presume, from a safety point of view, that anything which is to placed on the exterior surface of the boat would have to be fixed securely, whether the intention is a temporary placement or not. If the weather goes to hell in a hurry, where you're more concerned about sails, helm etc, is it really wise to have attached to the deck or bimini or wherever, a sail like unit (any piece of flexible and light material can harness wind power), loosely affixed with a trailing power line, which given the right combinateion of a broaching wave/gust of wind, could break free and start flapping around? 

I would argue that your flexi solar panel is not going to be your first priority when you're below deck, making lunch under sail when the wind picks up... and that it might potentially represent a negative safety factor....

allio


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Seems to me that the flexible panels are more appropriate for short term cruisers and people like the Fasters who are primarily racers. Having a major structure over our cockpit to support our panels I can well understand why a racer would not want that. 

Otoh our previous boat had them out over the stern which for mine is a better position rather than over the cockpit itself. Even so windage for a racer must be a consideration and the ability to roll panels up when not in use would be the winning point I'd think.

Full time liveaboard power from solar alone ? Not if you have serious power usage and/or live anywhere with high percentage of cloud cover. In Sydney we do pretty well, probably 90% of the year off solar plus what the engine provides. When it rains for more than a few days we are relying on engine plus wind for generating what we need (we are very rarely hooked up to shore power). In most cases, if you want hot showers then chances are you'll need to run the engine an hour a day and this of course does help top up the batteries.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

interesting thread!,I think i'm going to build a rigid structure to replace my bimini and use 2 135 watt kyocera panels,maybe just loosely lay them in 1" angle so i can take them down during high winds,I already have 3 small 15 watt panels mounted on the stern which work fine but just not enough juice,I don't like needing to be at the mercy of diverse marinas either!


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Allio, good points about structural stability. You might be surprised how sturdy the frame is when it's cinched up tight. The PVC spine does lend it some flexibility, but my guess is that the frame and panel are, in practice, as strong as the bow pulpit and stanchions they're clipped into. 

Your point about the windage of these panels is probably my biggest mystery and worry so far, and I'll have to take her out sailing sooner rather than later to test it out. Depending on how it goes during sailing trials, I may decide to replace the PVC with metal, we'll see.

I put quick-connect plugs where the panel wiring meets the charge controller box, so in the event of a serious situation it would be the work of a moment to disconnect the panel if needed. It's also fuse protected in the event a surprise wave managed to dislodge the panel. 

To tdw, we intend to have fairly minimal energy consumption. Considering our shower will be a black weed sprayer, "hot" is likely to be an occasional occurrence. Also, the flex panels are pretty neat in their ability to work in overcast skies and indirect light (as MedSailor talked about already).

For a smaller boat like ours with its rail space long spoken for, this seemed to be the ideal setup for us. I hope somebody out there can find it useful, if not as an inspiration then as an entertaining cautionary tale someday when our panels sail us into a reef at night and then fall off.


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## MarcHall (Jun 13, 2006)

*Re: Here's what I got*



JeffBurright said:


> This means that the panel is predominantly for use while at anchor, but I can lay it out on the deck if I need the juice while under sail. Of course, with 10 feet of panel you have a much higher instance of shading sections of it with a shroud or other somesuch, and slipperiness could become an issue too if you're clambering around on deck. When not in use, I roll the panel up and toss it in the quarterberth.


The panels linked to are amorphous silicon and do not suffer the shading effects of the standard solar panels made of slices of from a silicone crystal. The loss in output is directly related to the % of shading of the amorphous silicon.

The issue with amorphous silicon panels is their expense per watt (or amps) and wattage (or amps) generated per given area of panel is much less then a standard panel.

The two panels are tied together and normally drapped over the boom and tied down to deck fittings when at anchor. If I know I am going to be around for the day then I might offset them to the sunny side of the boat and move them during the day as sun travels across the sky of the boat swings at anchorage.

At times I have also tied them in across the dodger while underway. I have 3 standard panels on the boat as well so these provide a few more watts or a couple of amps of extra current flow into the batteries. For my panels I think the most I have ever seen from each panel is around 1 amp.

At some point I may invest in more of them, particularly if they become lighter and could be incorporated into a sunshade for the boat and/or tied into a sunshade.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37, Hull 207


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## oldfurr (Dec 25, 2012)

Just thought I'd mention that completely flexible plastic stick on solar cells with the same output as regular cells are now coming out of the lab & should be in production within a year or two, could be a real game changer for solar power afloat as well as everywhere else. 
I can't link but a short article is on the site Extremetech "Stanford creates flexible, high-efficiency peel-and-stick solar cells"
By Sebastian Anthony on December 24, 2012 at 8:48 am


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Good article! Thank you for that!


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Stanford creates flexible, high-efficiency peel-and-stick solar cells | ExtremeTech

That is the article. It doesn't say anything about the watts produced per square foot.

MPPT solar controllers (starting at under $100) do allow monocrystalline panels to work when partially shaded, giving you the best of both worlds (working in shade and having a high output).

I think it is a lot easier to mount a couple of rigid 20x18" 30w panels than a 10' long 60w flexible.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I remember when Paolo was debating this issue... I'm now contemplating something similar, and the reason I'm thinking of going the flexible/semi-flexible route would be for two reasons- I could more easily move them around the boat (to the sunnier side, maybe) and wouldn't have the added expense and "stuff" hanging off the back of my boat (the more common place to put them on an Olson 30) and then they won't interfere with other activities (mounting/dismounting the outboard, mounting the emergency rudder/cassette, etc...). But, I'm not sure how the flexible panel worked out for you, Paulo. Was the output voltage sufficient for your cruising needs? I'm sure your needs would be different than mine, but I estimate that I won't need more than 100w, and could probably make do with 80, possibly less. Prices are dropping quite a bit, with the exception of the Ganz panels, which would be my preference. Any ideas, anyone?

Ray


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I have 400 watts of rigid panels mounted on an arch and tilt them to follow the sun. It is enough to meet all my energy needs. Fridge the makes ice, lappie, lights etc. On sunny days I am fully charged by mid day.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

I have several of the roll up 144 watt flexible panel.. these are used for roof installations and quite sturdy... these would be great to install on a bimini or dodger which is what I intend to do later... 4 of these panels should be all one needs for off the grid cruising... the panels are 5 foot long... I'd like to try to make a swing panel similar to tilt panels on the rear rails but on the side rails as has been done before and removable and stowable would be great features too. Need to put on the thinking cap and come up with an elegant design.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Guitarguy- which brand of panel do you have?


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Irunbird said:


> Guitarguy- which brand of panel do you have?


The panels are the Uninsolar 144 Watt (PVL-144), they supply 24 volts and are longer than 5 foot though... I was going to have them installed on my roof from an installer but my HOA prohibits installing them with out Architectural approvals... so I just kept the panels and got a good price on them from the installer... I used them for science projects at my wife's elementary school... they work great in all sunlight/shade... the deck on my 25 footer is too small for the panels so if installed they need to be on the port and starboard rails...

This is the panel:

UniSolar PVL-144 PV Laminate, 144 Watt 24V Amorphous Solar Panel


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Semi-flexible panels will be a lot more efficient but they can not be rolled up. Solbian semi-flexible panels can be purchased with the most efficient solar cells in the world, SunPower cells, and a 100W panel is just 44" X 22"... They mount beautifully on bimini's etc. and weigh almost nothing.

You can also get "walk on" panels from Aurinco or Solara.. These are both robust well made products designed for marine use, and not the junk you find on eBay...

Armorphous panels (roll up) need double or more the square ft surface area to get the same output. Placing any panels on a deck, on a sailboat, leads to poor performance shading wise.

This boat has 125W of solar and it is not on-deck where it will be tripped on or stepped on......


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Agree Maine sail... beautiful boat if yours... Yes the best place to install them is out of sight and on top of the dodger and bimini is perfect and what I'd like to do... the roof panels may be too big practically speaking and may not be able to be installed but the engineer/tinkerer in me will try to rig something for the fun of it... just looked at some panels Kyocera 225W and 5' x 3' in size... I imagine two of these should be adequate for electrical needs with excess for a 32-35 footer (intended next sailboat size)...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

We simply mounted the panels on the bimini by bolting through the existing bimini frame with 1" spacers for ventilation and to reduce chafe on the cloth. They are out of the way, stay clean and the boom doesn't seem to be a factor, but if it was, I could just drop it between them at anchor.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

capta said:


> We simply mounted the panels on the bimini by bolting through the existing bimini frame with 1" spacers for ventilation and to reduce chafe on the cloth. They are out of the way, stay clean and the boom doesn't seem to be a factor, but if it was, I could just drop it between them at anchor.


Great idea... I wonder how many thefts of these panels are out there on these boats... I imagine it's just there for the thieves to take... I would like the panels to be removable and be able to be stored when away from the boat for a length of time...


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Maine Sail said:


> Semi-flexible panels will be a lot more efficient but they can not be rolled up. Solbian semi-flexible panels can be purchased with the most efficient solar cells in the world, SunPower cells, and a 100W panel is just 44" X 22"... They mount beautifully on bimini's etc. and weigh almost nothing.
> 
> You can also get "walk on" panels from Aurinco or Solara.. These are both robust well made products designed for marine use, and not the junk you find on eBay...
> 
> ...


Thank you, Maine- that's exactly what I'm thinking. I don't need something to roll up (although that would be ideal), but as long as they can be pulled and stowed somewhere below, that would be fine. The prices seem to be dropping, just not as dramatically as the rigid type.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Irunbird said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I remember when Paolo was debating this issue... I'm now contemplating something similar, and the reason I'm thinking of going the flexible/semi-flexible route would be for two reasons- I could more easily move them around the boat (to the sunnier side, maybe) and wouldn't have the added expense and "stuff" hanging off the back of my boat (the more common place to put them on an Olson 30) and then they won't interfere with other activities (mounting/dismounting the outboard, mounting the emergency rudder/cassette, etc...). But, I'm not sure how the flexible panel worked out for you, Paulo. Was the output voltage sufficient for your cruising needs? I'm sure your needs would be different than mine, but I estimate that I won't need more than 100w, and could probably make do with 80, possibly less. Prices are dropping quite a bit, with the exception of the Ganz panels, which would be my preference. Any ideas, anyone?
> 
> Ray


Ray, I guess this subject is more and more relevant because a lot of new technologies regarding flexible panels are on the way. I resolved my problems with a bigger alternator and maximizing all charging system including the batteries. It worked

I did not give up from the panels but decided to wait. I believe that very soon we will have new ones that will make older ones obsolete, specially in what price is related 

Regards

Paulo


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Powerfilm has excellent customer service. I had one 7 watt powerfilm last year for all my battery power and it worked great. Never once had a dead battery I was using very minimal power though. 

Great quality product the company stands behind. It is rare for me to endorse a brand.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Here it is. Extremely heeled over.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

My power needs are fairly minimal, too- no ssb, so my only real question mark is the autopilot. I'm about the install a Raymarine ev-100 tiller pilot, and if my estimates are correct, I think between that, all the LED lights, vhf, stereo and chartplotter (which will be used only once every 6 hrs or so, and just for a few minutes), my power needs should be less than 750 watt-hours/day (and that's if the ap is having to really struggle with sea conditions), but there is no idea how much sunlight there will be out there, so my backup is a portable generator.

I am finding more and more companies producing semi-flexible mono-crystalline panels (through Amazon), but not all of them appear to have distributors in the US, yet. This does seem to be an area of rapid change, which is always cool!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Irunbird said:


> I am finding more and more companies producing semi-flexible mono-crystalline panels (through Amazon), but not all of them appear to have distributors in the US, yet. This does seem to be an area of rapid change, which is always cool!


The rush to the bottom of the quality pile has begin for semi-flexible panels. The Chinese have begun knocking off Solbian panels and they are EXTREMELY poor quality with high levels of cell microcracking, (right out of the box) less than rated outputs, poorly attached junction boxes, bogus specs etc. etc..

If you want products that hold up in the marine environment, and that were specifically designed for marine use, then Solbian, Solara or Aurinco are good bets.....

This is a typical comparison conducted using Electro Luminescence and Flash Testing procedures. Both panels were new off the shelf. One was the genuine branded panel and the other was a cheap Chinese look-a-like / supposed copy of the branded panel.

Do you really get what you pay for buying cheap Chinese copies..?

The level of microcracking of the cells, on the Chinese product, is absolutely horrid.

Caveat emptor...


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Maine- is that for the brand name Solbians? I'm sure there will be quality issues for anything coming out of China, but I'd certainly be willing to pay for a quality product. Like the auto-pilot, this is an area I don't want to skimp.

edit: just figured out what you meant (couldn't see the photos at work)- wow, what a difference!


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I read an article last week that showed how the cost of solar panels is going the way of computer ram of a few years ago and speculates that in 5-10 (?) years solar power will be less expensive than coal. I guess the big issue for sailboats is surface area vs esthetics in getting enough power to run all of our modern conveniences. It would be nice if solar could power an air conditioner. Then we would have something going! Maybe using a bunch of Peltier modules would do it. What do you think?
John


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

ccriders said:


> I read an article last week that showed how the cost of solar panels is going the way of computer ram of a few years ago and speculates that in 5-10 (?) years solar power will be less expensive than coal. I guess the big issue for sailboats is surface area vs esthetics in getting enough power to run all of our modern conveniences. It would be nice if solar could power an air conditioner. Then we would have something going! Maybe using a bunch of Peltier modules would do it. What do you think?
> John


If they get cheap enough and flexible enough, maybe they could make sails out of giant solar panels. Then you'd have enough surface area!


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Flexible panels have a habit of breaking down in UV, in which case their output drops drastically after a few years in the sun.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I am looking at adding solar, however I am reluctant to do so right now since the tech seems to be in a state of rapid flux - 6 months from now prices could be a lot less for a lot more efficient panel


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

alctel said:


> I am looking at adding solar, however I am reluctant to do so right now since the tech seems to be in a state of rapid flux - 6 months from now prices could be a lot less for a lot more efficient panel


Yep, in fact, I'm re-thinking the whole idea (like I did just a few years ago..). I can buy just one more battery (230ah 6v golf cart battery) for $100 and have several days more juice to finish the race. Available sunshine is a big variable, so this may just end up as money down the drain..


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## HMoll (Sep 18, 2007)

My house loads were huge, for a 35-footer, especially since I ran my air conditioning with a running alternator (instead of a genset). I decided to install one Ganz e-Solar, 55W on my bimini, but the panel was dedicated to my starting battery. Worked great, and sometimes at anchor just switched to that battery to run small loads on a sunny day (music, refrigerator).

Living in Puerto Rico, winds are easterly and sun travels on the south most of the year, so panel ended up on starboard side of bimini, for maximum exposure.

I think most people don't have an understanding of solar energy and how it works. I see manufacturers offering optional solar panels in front of companionway, under boom, sometimes having lines running on top! (Jeanneau, for example). I've seen plenty of solar panel installations with a nice windmill shading them! Back to Paulo's initial question, I was convinced with the semi-flexible panels installed on the bimini. I got some nice mounting hardware from Gemini Products, and I had the lightest installation possible. I also like the small rigid installations on a moveable pod/post, like they do in the minis, if you don't mind re-aligning it every few hours to get the best angle. Just remember that the shade of just a backstay, for example, can kill anywhere from 50% to 90% of the best possible power produced at that moment. 

Oh, and go for it! Technology is ALWAYS depreciating and changes at a faster rate every day.

Regards,

Hans


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## robertbeegel (Aug 17, 2016)

PCP said:


> I am going to cruise more time and I want to stay away from marinas so I need some renewable energy source and I want to have solar panels.
> 
> Solar panels in what a boat concerns are not very efficient unless you have ugly, expensive and heavy metal structures to orient them. I don't want that.
> 
> ...


I recently bought 2 100 watt roll up flexible solar panels and the main problem I have had with them is that on a sailboat if they are not mounted flat to a surface (floor, walkway, deck, cabin top) that they become their own "sail" picking up wind resistance along the length. My units are 19" wide and about 10' (feet) long and while they did keep my bilge pump batteries charged were not worth the added work and eventual damage from high winds getting under them and lifting them off of their hardware. The only way I would do it again would be by gluing them down to the surface so that there was no movement or possible damage from windage at a a mooring or dock. I mounted them to flexible plastic panels that were screwed to the deck and eventually found them ripped from their placement by high wind gusts. And, while I did buy 100w units I never really got more than .3 amps running through them at mid day with the sun at the highest point. I would recommend installing them if you can permanently (or at least install with no gaps underneath) affix them to a flat area away from the windier side of the boat. I bought them on ebay for about $90 USD each.

Rob


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

First of all this is a very old thread. 

A flexible panel (not roll-up) is 21" x 42" and should produce between 5.6 and 7 amps depending on controller. 

Roll-up panels are not very efficient.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Velcro seem obvious. I'd go with 3M Dual Lock.


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