# Stack pack cover vs traditional



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I was watching a sailrite vid on you tube on how to make one.. it actually looks easier then making a traditional sail cover. 

The advantages of an open top cover are obvious, what are the disadvantages?


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm also interested in this. One question I have is about reefing. It seems that reefing would be difficult with the stack pack. I don't have much to back that up, but any comments would be helpful.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

My boat has a Mack Pack. While handy, a fixed sail cover is in the way when sailing. There can also be chafe issues.

I'm looking at doing away with the Mack Pack and going back to a traditional sail cover with easy to remove lazy jacks.


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## josrulz (Oct 15, 2006)

DeniseO30, not sure if you're looking to replace a sail cover or improve sail handling (or both). We wanted to improve sail handling on our Sabre 34, which when we bought it had no mainsail handling gear. We considered the Sailrite option or a Mack Pack, but ended up making our own lazy jacks--modeled after ezjax to some degree. They are retractable, so they don't get in the way or chafe while sailing, and they have made handling the sail a lot easier. We didn't need to modify our cover either.

We've never used anything like a Mack Pack, so I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them. Just saying we did our own lazy jacks for--I don't know--maybe $150 and called it a day. Of course, our goal was sail handling, so I'm not sure if this helps you at all.
-J


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## montenido (May 14, 2008)

Denise, 
Great topic, as I am considering the same thing. I added lazy jacks to my C30 and thought it was the best upgrade (of MANY) that I added. My current boat, a C36 has a really nice but large, sailcover which takes a few minutes to remove and re-install. It also has "Dutchman" style furling for the main, which I am not that crazy about. I just returned from a bareboat charter in the BVIs on a large cat that had the sail pack and lazy jacks. It certainly made dealing with the sail much easier. I think it is a good way to go. Most reefing systems will work fine with it, and you shouldn't have to secure the middle of the foot when reefing. 

I am also considering the Sailrite kit, and will be very interested in the replies to your post. Has anybody here actually made the stackpack kit?

Cheers, Bill


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I have lazy jacks and they are the best thing to have when solo. I've been thinking of the bungee cord on them to have less lines to tie and untie. I agree that reefing could be a prob.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The Doyle Stack Pak is a bit different than other "Stack Paks". With the Doyle, there is a membrane sewn from the sail to the cover. When the sail is raised, this pulls and holds the cover against the bottom of the sail, so that, in essence, the cover becomes part of the sail. Not good for racing, but fine for cruising.

Oh, and not only does it not interfere with reefing, there is no need to tie off the lowered portion of the sail as it goes into the cover.


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## captainrizzo (Feb 24, 2008)

I have a stack pack with lazy jacks and love it. I also have a jiffy reefing system, two single lines (one for each reef). Absolutely a perfect setup.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Our current boat came with a rotten conventional main cover so we elected to have a new stack type cover made to simplify the on and off routine. First the good: it's a breeze to use, just unzip and attach the halyard and your ready to raise the main. When dropping the main you only need to do a little tidying up of the sail and stow the reefing lines inside and zip it up. We used to not bother putting the cover on at the end of each day on an extended cruise and now it's so easy that we do, so I'm sure we will extend the life of the sail. I always hated taking off/putting on the main cover for some reason, and I know there were times that I sailed with genny alone because I didn't want to bother with the cover thing if it was only going to be a short sail. Now it's so easy I don't even think about it. The bad: when sailing the cover tends to "bag" out on the windward side which I am sure doesn't help our sailing performance (I'm trying to figure out a way to improve this). If I move the lazy jacks (we used the same lazy jack system that we had to support the new cover) forward to the mast the cover hangs down below the mast and flops around and blocks visibility so it's not really an option (also tying to figure out a way to make this work). For offshore use I would want to move the lazy jacks to reduce chafe so wouldn't want this kind of cover. The top of the cover tends to trap crab and fish skeletons that the bald eagles haul up there to eat after stealing them from the otters (this is a local problem, probably not a big concern in most locations ) 
We were lured by a cheap price from a local canvas shop instead of having Doyle or Mack make the cover, big mistake in hindsight, you want it done right if you are going to have one. We've had to make several modifications to ours (PITA) to make it function properly. 
Overall- we love it even with all the minuses.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

When I want my lazy jacks out of the way for raising the sail, I do so before leaving the dock or anchor site. Once the sails are up, I then move them back to the normal position. Then they are ready for when I drop the sail, without having to re-position them at the time I want to drop the sail.


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## Willis (Jan 16, 2008)

We installed a Doyle Stack Pack at the beginning of this season. It is fantastic for all the reasons jrd22 listed. Like them, we also used to leave the main under the cover sometimes because it was such a hassle to get the old cover on and off. The stack pack makes it a breeze now. It is easy enough to slack the lazy jacks to avoid chafe. I only wish we would have done it sooner.


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## Wateread (Dec 25, 2007)

We are having a stack pack installed now and I'm glad to hear that it is a fantastic option. We are also guilty of sailing on the genny alone most of the time. Mostly because of the prep work to raise and the hassle of the Dutchman flaking when done. I'm sure it's better than nothing but it sure left me with a lot of work to tidy everything up when done.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I've used sail covers, roller boom furling, roller mast furling and lazyjacks - never a stack pack which I take to be the "lazyjack" system with vertical lines running through eyelets?

Anyway, the lazyjack system with a fixed, top opening cover was by far my favourite. It was on a BVI charterboat so it wasn't adjusted very well - kind of short on one side and long on the other but it was still a breeze to use. Battens got hung up a bit when raising & lowering sails but it was a fixed system - if it could be eased and clipped at the mast those problems would disappear.

Best of all, no compromises required to the sail - no missing roach, vertical battens etc.

It will definitely be the way I go when something new (even a sailcover) is required. They look pretty easy to make up yourself too. I've seen lots of designs with lots of little blocks at the line intersections but I fail to see the need for the extra cost and chafe. Eyes spliced at those points work just fine, are cheap and add no (or little) chafe.


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## tkawika (Oct 22, 2010)

I have been looking at few stackpack systems. I have seen some excellent write-ups and DIY instructions on stack packs. The main difference I see in the design is the sail footing. I am leaning towards a loose footed sail with the stack pack using rope cord in the boom slot. I got the idea from this post.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

What about the windage ay anchor causd by the stack pack


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## tkawika (Oct 22, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> What about the windage ay anchor causd by the stack pack


I don't think it would be any different than a standard sail cover. I think in the post I linked too, he said it was really easy to remove the sailpack and the sail together, which sounded nice.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Chef- the windage may be slightly more than a standard sail cover but I haven't noticed any difference in how the boat acts while at anchor.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

I was kind of wondering if you would weigh in John. BTW, did you have lazy jacks on Laurie Anne before you went with the new sail cover? We need to add some lazy jacks to Nikko and I'm kind of wondering what the best line setup is. I'll probably end up doing it trial and error but wanted to limit the first couple of errors.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I have a Mack sails stack pack with lazy jacks and it is the DBs. Esp when dropping the sail singlehanded. 

My only reservation would be if I was doing longer passages where the main would be up for days not hours The risk of chafe to the pack sides would be considerable as they always flap a bit regardless of how I arrange things. I sail with the lazy jacks slackened off and tied forward to the mast.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Ray- I'll email you.
TQA- when you slack off the lazy jacks and pull them to the mast, doesn't the sail cover flop down at the aft end and just hang down a long way below the boom? That's what ours does so I end up leaving the jacks in place so the cover lays up against the main. I'd like to get rid of the jacks while sailing but nothing seems to work well with our cover.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Denise,
Have you talked with Skip over at Moorehouse?

Jim


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> I've used sail covers, roller boom furling, roller mast furling and lazyjacks - never a stack pack which I take to be the "lazyjack" system with vertical lines running through eyelets?


The fish line going through eyelets in the sail is typically called a "duchman"

The Stack Pack is the system that has the sail cover attached to the boom with a big zipper at the top. The lazy jacks are attached to the the top of the sail cover. After dropping the sail you just zip up the top of the sail cover. The sail cover is not removable.

So there are two systems you have not used.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

jrd22 said:


> Ray- I'll email you.
> TQA- when you slack off the lazy jacks and pull them to the mast, doesn't the sail cover flop down at the aft end and just hang down a long way below the boom? That's what ours does so I end up leaving the jacks in place so the cover lays up against the main. I'd like to get rid of the jacks while sailing but nothing seems to work well with our cover.


Yes the cover does flop down a bit. I have it tied up at the rear to the topping lift and at the front to the mast. But it sags in the middle and flaps.

It flaps much less if I leave the lazy jack lines taught but the risk of chafe on the sail is then a serious concern.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've been to skips place jim talked with the girl the runs the shop. I've not met him yet. I understand his sails are very $$$


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

jrd22 said:


> Ray- I'll email you.
> TQA- when you slack off the lazy jacks and pull them to the mast, doesn't the sail cover flop down at the aft end and just hang down a long way below the boom? That's what ours does so I end up leaving the jacks in place so the cover lays up against the main. I'd like to get rid of the jacks while sailing but nothing seems to work well with our cover.


On my Mack Pack there are ties provided so you can roll the sides of the pack against the boom and secure them.


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## gershel (Feb 4, 2001)

I singlehand most of the time, and I found that the lazyjacks on my catamaran were one royal PITA. The full battens would always hang up. I switched, to a Dutchman system, and I can lower the main when off the wind, then raise it without heading into the wind. Always under control, and never hanging up. I have to admit though, that the cover is still tedious to put on. I wish there was a way to have the Dutchman and a Stackpack.
Marc


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

sailak said:


> On my Mack Pack there are ties provided so you can roll the sides of the pack against the boom and secure them.


OOPS So that is what they are for, I think the rigger used them to tie the pack to the boom.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

*Lazy Jack Trick*

Many folks complain about full battens getting caught up when raising the mainsail. They then spend a lot of time moving BOTH sides of the lazy jacks to the mast.

We developed an easier way with our lazy jacks.

We have a small cleat on the forward starboard side of the boom. When we put the halyard on the headboard, we move ONLY the starboard side of the lazy jacks forward and snug them under the forward side of the horn of this cleat.

Then, when we raise the mainsail, instead of going exactly head to wind, we bear off a tad to starboard so the wind is coming from the port side of the bow.

We then raise the mainsail and it doesn't get hooked on the lazy jacks even though the port side jacks are still there.

Been working for 13 years.

Yes, we have to go forward again to unhook the starboard lazy jack for dousing the sail, but there's never any hurry.

So, for those of you with lazy jacks, consider doing only one side.

Your boat, your choice.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

sailak- thanks! I'll have to experiment with different ways to tie it, I would want it to be simple and quick, velcro comes to mind.


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## ggray (Jun 18, 2011)

*Mack pack*



sailak said:


> On my Mack Pack there are ties provided so you can roll the sides of the pack against the boom and secure them.


Dale, do you roll up the cover every time you raise the main? I'd like to but I really haven't found a way to do it well enough to be worth the trouble. In fact, i haven't even tried in quite a while. I think there is one picture in the Mack literature showing it neatly rolled. Do you use ties further aft along the cover?

Garland


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

ggray said:


> Dale, do you roll up the cover every time you raise the main? I'd like to but I really haven't found a way to do it well enough to be worth the trouble. In fact, i haven't even tried in quite a while. I think there is one picture in the Mack literature showing it neatly rolled. Do you use ties further aft along the cover?
> 
> Garland


I spent a couple hundred dollars this spring getting chafe damage from the lazy jacks fixed so I'm certainly rolling it up more than I was in the past.

I pull the jacks forward and tie them at the mast. There is only one set of ties at the forward end of the cover. I use some sail-ties along the boom to tidy the rest of it up.

I'm seriously considering getting rid of the Mack Pack and going back to a simple lazy jack system and conventional sail cover.


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## ggray (Jun 18, 2011)

I hear you.

I originally went w/ a standard sailcover rather than the standard stack pack type cover because I never liked the ones I had used, but finally went to a MackPack as that seemed to be the most promising of the type.

I had a large enough cover that it was a pain, so i'm trying to make the MP work.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm considering making a stackpack from the sailrite kit, but I see a couple of problems. 1. I recently bought a loose footed mainsail and it would seem that a stackpack attached to the boom would more or less make that loose footed sail behave like it was attached to the boom thus limiting any advantage a loose footed sail provides. 2. I think a lazy jack system goes hand in hand with the stackpack and chafe on the sail would seem like a problem and moving the lazy jacks to the mast to remedy the chafe problem seems like a hassle.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

lancelot9898 said:


> I'm considering making a stackpack from the sailrite kit, but I see a couple of problems. 1. I recently bought a loose footed mainsail and it would seem that a stackpack attached to the boom would more or less make that loose footed sail behave like it was attached to the boom thus limiting any advantage a loose footed sail provides. 2. I think a lazy jack system goes hand in hand with the stackpack and chafe on the sail would seem like a problem and moving the lazy jacks to the mast to remedy the chafe problem seems like a hassle.


I have a Mack stackpack and a loose footed main. There is no restriction to the foot of the main as the pack is tied to the boom under the sail.

Yes moving the lazy jacks to the mast and back to the normal position is a chore and takes time, maybe 15 seconds. I have a bungee on the mast and cleats on the boom.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

TQA said:


> I have a Mack stackpack and a loose footed main. There is no restriction to the foot of the main as the pack is tied to the boom under the sail.
> 
> .


The sailrite kits have the bottom of the stackpack fitted into the grove of the boom which would interfere with letting the full extent of the belly of the sail out. Not sure if this is how the Mack stackpack is attached to the boom? This all assumes that I leave the stackpack in place with the jacklines holding the pack much as Alex shows in his diagrams. These concerns go away if the jacklines are brought to the mast and the stackpack is tied off away from the sail.


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## pmtass2000 (Apr 20, 2020)

how is your reefing lines set up? are you able to reef from the cockpit?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

pmtass2000 said:


> how is your reefing lines set up? are you able to reef from the cockpit?


11 year old thread😄


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