# Ablative bottom paint to VC-17



## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

We had no intention of racing when we launched the boat this past spring, so we took a putty knife to any of the loose bottom paint, feathered it out, and applied two coats of a single season ablative.

We enjoyed racing enough that we plan to do it again next year. In an effort to get the bottom cleaned up and slick again, the whole crew has volunteered to help remove all of the ablative paint, smooth out, and prep the bottom for VC-17.

Despite my warnings of the huge undertaking, that this isn’t going to be a weekend project, it’s going to take several weekends…in the cold of winter…to get it done, they all seem more than enthusiastic (‘til the weather hits, methinks).

Reality dictates that I’ll have these knuckleheads actually helping for two weekends, three at best, between the boat coming out of the water and the snow hitting. In that time, I’d like to at least get the old bottom paint off. The rest can wait until spring.

We didn’t find any blisters last year, we didn’t run aground or bash into anything, and we made sure we had good prep work and paint before launching in the spring, so hopefully we won’t find anything wrong when she comes out this year. 

I don’t want to damage anything under there, but at the same time I calculate that I’ve got about 6 working days and 6 people to get the bottom paint removed from a 40 footer.

I’m taking any and all suggestions.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Ablative paint is nasty foul stuff - get white suits and tape cuffs, legs, and collars shut. Dust masks and goggles. wear shoes you can toss. 

Don't know about a 40ftr, but removing 2 coats of ablative paint from a J/24 took 5 people busting their backs for 2 days for 6 straight hours - and all we did was smooth the ablative paint down, we didn't remove it entirely. Removing 100% might have taken another 2 days. 

All done using hand sanding - no power tools. 

Your 40 ftr might have 4 times the surface area of a J/24.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Have a pro soda blast (or shells or whatever media is preferrred locally) the bottom and then use your staff to fair the underbody and shape the foils. With that many people and time, you should be able to get the job done. As with most big jobs, the prep work is 90% of the work.


Attempting to do this job by hand may well cost you your crew, unles they are all teenagers who dont know better...


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

My nav, tactician, and I are all over 50, we know better.

The rest of the crew are between 30 and 40, so old enough to know better, but still young enough to do it.

We ran…ahem…afoul of that nasty bottom paint last year with the prep work. It took 4 of us a solid 12 hours just to prep. We scraped and feathered the loose spots and sanded the entire bottom just to smooth it out and make sure we had a good surface for the new paint. We had 2 variable speed random orbital sanders going at it, the other two hand sanded. That had to be the most miserable 12 hours I’ve ever spent doing anything.



Hadn’t thought of having someone blast it. I’ve got a couple of contacts there in the marina, I’ll see if one of them can hook me up with a pro. 


I gave brief thought to using a stripper, but figured she’d complain too much.

Gave just a little more thought to using a paint stripper, don’t know how that would react with the gel coat though, I’m sure the marina wouldn’t look favorably on it either.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I have used paint stripper to strip 2 boats, and it works, but it won't work in cold weather, and, although it's faster than sanding, if you know how to do it, but it's still slow and tedious. Also, you can't use the stripper available at your hardware store, even if it has a picture of a boat on the label. It's too aggressive and will dissolve gel coat. There are paint strippers that are formulated specifically for fiberglass. I have usually had to special order them. Occasionally you can find them locally in a paint store that specializes in automobile paints and auto body supplies. For a 40' boat, I would recommend that you bite the bullet and have it stripped by a pro. Any way that you DIY, it will be an awful job.


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Strip the bottom at first opportunity after haulout this Fall - perhaps even haul a bit early. You will still have a few nice days to get it done. If you can afford to have it soda blasted or dry ice blasted and you can find someone to do it then go that route. Save the manual labour for the barrier coat and new paint application etc...

I stripped the bottom of a 26 foot boat one Fall in four very long days with no help. Used a paint scraper as described - the sanding is just not practical and a lot slower. Then in the Spring do the rebuild of your barrier coat any fairing and painting. VC 17 is supposed to be launched within 30 days of application so will set your schedule. If salt water consider VC Offshore. However remember that both of these bottom paints require frequent scrubbing - if not planning to do that stick with an ablative - perhaps Micron CSC or something similar.

My best advice is to do the strip first before you tackle your other winterizing projects inside and on deck. The stripping takes the most work and is what you want to do while nice weather and crew is available. Do the interior and other work later when you are solo ...

BTW - also stripped our current 27 foot boat - also with scrapers - it is not at all fun .... process can be viewed at Complete Bottom Job The boat had Micron CSC ablative paint over a barrier coat when we bought it and now has VC Offshore over Interprotect 2000 barrier coat

Mike


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## captainrizzo (Feb 24, 2008)

I have a Hunter 306. I hired out to have my bottom ground down to the gelcoat, apply 3 coats of barrier paint and two coats of ablative. Total was around $2k. Totally worth having it done professionally in my mind.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I would have it blasted. Think of the nightmare if you make the effort and still need to go there. What a waste. If the remaining ablative paint were very thin, I would suggest grinding it off, but doubt that well kept ablative is thin enough. Grinding almost assures some hull damage and requires just that many more barrier coats. You want a nice clean hull to apply a barrier and then the VC17, especially since VC17 doesn't like to stick. Great fast freshwater paint though, if done well.


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## imiloa (Mar 17, 2004)

*Make sure to seal up everything*

Just a note here on soda blasting the bottom... After having had that done last spring I can tell you to be absolutely certain that every hatch and port is thoughly sealed off. Overseal with plastic and tape if you can. Even plug the through hulls from the outside. Check that the contractor does this properly before they start blasting if you're not doing the job yourself. The fine particulate will find its way inside the boat and make a real mess if you're not meticulous about this, and the subsequent cleanup will be hellacious. (Don't ask me how I know.) Good luck - the results are a thing of beauty.


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## rayncyn51 (Aug 8, 2008)

+1 on the soda blasting. We had our 30' blasted last fall, best $1,000 I ever spent. Not having tired ourselves out with grunt work, we had plenty of time to do some very nice finishing work.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

I called around and got a few quotes on the soda blast, the best one came in at $2800.
That's about 3X what I was expecting, so I started looking for an alternative.

There are a couple of products from "Peel Away"

Peel Away® Marine Safety Strip - 5 Gallons

Peel Away® Marine Strip - 5 Gallons

No solvents, no fumes, environmentally safe, won't damage the gel coat, blah blah blah.

One looks like it will take the surface down to the gel coat, the other looks like it will leave the barrier coat intact.

The video states that if applied and pressure washed off, the process takes about 4 man hours to complete on a 40 foot boat. That sounds peachy, but I don't believe it.

Anyone ever use this stuff? 
The reviews I've read have been good, but they are few.

Thinking about using the stuff that leaves the barrier coat. Strip the old bottom paint this fall and fair any place that is undamaged and dry, but needs it. Let the rest of the hull dry out through the winter, fair what's left, scuff sand, and apply a couple of barrier coats next spring.

Any better ideas?


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I will be watching this thread closely. while I just have a tiny 22 footer, the ablative to VC-17 is exactly where I am going. I bought Interlux Strip 299E, which is also supposed to remove the garbage.

I will start a separate thread here, and post pictures if I accomplish anything with it. I am fully planning on having to sand as well, then barrier coat, then VC-17.


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## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

Anyone go the other direction...vc-17 to Ablative? I need to strip the vc-17 off because we are going to saltwater. Unfortunately, I cannot find any threads with anyone stripping the stuff off. The boat is still in the water and haven't yet tried to see how hard this stuff will be to sand off.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

funjohnson said:


> Anyone go the other direction...vc-17 to Ablative? I need to strip the vc-17 off because we are going to saltwater. Unfortunately, I cannot find any threads with anyone stripping the stuff off. The boat is still in the water and haven't yet tried to see how hard this stuff will be to sand off.


Yes, I have. It is very easy to sand off, particularly with a season's wear. However, you must get it all off. Nothing will stick to it. Pettit used to say some of their paints were compatible, but they seem to have retracted that position.

I have been told that it will actually wipe off with some solvent. Can't recall which. However, I'm trying to imagine having solvent running down my arms all day.

Edit disclosure: I didn't do all the sanding, but was there for the test when we were deciding which way to go. Orbital sander took it off with no effort at all.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Why not just sand the ablative very nicely with long boards and fine paper - down to 400 wet. That will give you a very smooth bottom for next season. Next spring, launch it and let the paint continue to ablate, like it is designed to. The more it ablates, the less work you will have to do to prep for VC17.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> Why not just sand the ablative very nicely with long boards and fine paper - down to 400 wet. That will give you a very smooth bottom for next season. Next spring, launch it and let the paint continue to ablate, like it is designed to. The more it ablates, the less work you will have to do to prep for VC17.


I will certainly take that into consideration based on what she looks like at haul out, but that would be the easy way out. I'm just not happy unless it takes 3 times longer, is twice as difficult, and the aggravation level is 10 times higher to achieve the same result. :laugher

Honestly though, because we are racing the boat, I'd like to get the bottom as drag free as possible. We found several large areas where the paint had flaked off when we hauled out last year and it's probably time to strip it down and start over. I'd really like to see what is going on beneath that old paint anyway, just to make sure everything is OK.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Tweegs said:


> I'm just not happy unless it takes 3 times longer, is twice as difficult, and the aggravation level is 10 times higher to achieve the same result. :laugher


We must have been separated at birth.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Tweegs, I don't know you or your boat, but offer this only as gross observation. I've seen many casual race boats with their owners obsessing over the hull, all the while the sheets and sails are nearly blown out, improper for conditions, or misfit. I would want it free of growth, but getting every last bump out is the last thing I would worry about to be sure I was going as fast a I could. Maybe all else is squared away on your vessel.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Lemme help... If your bottom looks like mine (yes that is me putting VC17 over ablative)... it held up for 2 months in the water (fresh water).. But the bottom is so rough it is tough to no start over. By the way, what you see in the picture is the result after 80 grit sandpaper sanding to try to "smooth it out" a bit.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Tweegs, I don't know you or your boat, but offer this only as gross observation. I've seen many casual race boats with their owners obsessing over the hull, all the while the sheets and sails are nearly blown out, improper for conditions, or misfit. I would want it free of growth, but getting every last bump out is the last thing I would worry about to be sure I was going as fast a I could. Maybe all else is squared away on your vessel.


We had the sails cleaned last winter and the sail maker (Doyle) rated the main as in poor condition and the head sail (155 genny) in fair condition.

A 40 knot gust blew out the main for us early in the year and we replaced it with a Pentax sail (Mylar/Kevlar) with the S load tapes custom cut for the boat.

We ran the old genny all year knowing it wasn't helping us much, but I just put a deposit on a new 135, again custom cut for the boat and of the same material used in the main.

For both sails the sail maker was out to the boat taking measurements, plugging those numbers into the computer, and using a sail makers sage and savvy to come up with a size and cut well suited to the boat. In our case the new head sail will be a #2, with a #2 weight and a #1 cut. We'll use the old 155 in really light air.

We'll have good sails for next year, but another problem to be addressed is that 16" fixed 3 blade prop. A 2 blade folding prop will replace it over the winter, a rigid vang is also on tap.

We put on a new traveler and added Genoa lead tracks over the summer, so at this point all of the big performance robbers have been or will be addressed. That leaves the bottom.

The bottom needs work if only from a general maintenance perspective. I figure that as long as we're doing the work anyway, we may as well slick her up for the race season.

My thinking is that if the boat _can_ sail to its potential, then it is all about the crew sailing it to its potential, and we know we have a lot of work to do there.

I'll snap a few pics at haul out to give a flavor of what I'm up against, though I don't think I'm in as bad a shape as SHNOOL.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Tweegs said:


> We had the sails cleaned last winter and the sail maker (Doyle) rated the main as in poor condition and the head sail (155 genny) in fair condition.
> 
> A 40 knot gust blew out the main for us early in the year and we replaced it with a Pentax sail (Mylar/Kevlar) with the S load tapes custom cut for the boat.
> 
> ...


I just realized you are in fresh water - why not just do a 400 grit wet sand on the bottom? Why do you need paint?


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

I’ve been asked that before, why we put bottom paint on here, and I really don’t have a good answer.

If you look around the marina in the spring, at the bee hive of activity going on, you’ll see the vast majority of sailboat owners out there putting on a fresh coat of bottom paint, while the majority of power boat owners are just waxing their hulls.

Being relatively new to the game, I figured these other sailboat owners knew something I didn’t. Few, if any, will make the trek up the St. Laurence to salt water in a given year. I’d say less than 10% of the sailboats in the marina race, so it’s not like they are all looking for an extra edge. So why do they apply anti-fouling paint? 


We do get a good layer of scum built up at the water line, zebra mussels too, if you aren’t careful. Last year at haul out there was a fine layer of algae covering the bottom, I attributed this to improper care by the PO, which is why we made sure to do a good job before launching last spring. Was it enough to hinder performance? Couldn’t tell ya, but I am anxious to see what it looks like when we haul out this year.

I’ll do some research and see if I can find a legitimate reason for applying bottom paint here on the lakes. 

Regardless of what we do, that bottom will look good before we go back in next spring. It just won’t do to show the whole world a trashy bottom on that upwind beat.


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