# Tips on checking over and identifying a MacGregor 26?



## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Hi,

I’ve been born and raised a marina rat (all power) and now want to get into sailing. I recently found a killer deal on a 1986 MacGregor 26 that’s been sitting for a few years. It was abandoned by a previous tenant, and the owner of the property wants to get a title based on it’s being abandoned and sell it to me for a song. 

I’ve researched these boats some and am aware of some of the compromises, but for my use I think they’ll work just fine. I won’t be doing any serious weather or going far offshore, and the river I’ll need to navigate to get to and from port can be shallow at times. I figure this could get me started, allow me to fix her up a bit and then likely sell it and move on in a season or two. 

My first questions is, how do I know what model 26 it is? Apparently there’s a 26C, 26D, 26X, 26M, etc. I do know that it has a swing keel and an outboard mount on the port side of the transom. Any suggestions on how to tell which model it is?

I’ve got an old extra long shaft Suzuki 9.9 kicking around that I figure could push it well enough to get me in and out of the no wake zone and into the bay. 

The boat has sails in storage, condition unknown until I get down there to check it out. For the cost of the boat and trailer I wouldn’t mind having to have the sails repaired, and would even consider replacing them if I had to (although that may cause me to reconsider this particular boat). The seller seems to think the sails are in good condition, which would be a nice bonus.

I’ve grown up on and around boats of all ages, and have been a liveaboard on a 1976 Silverton 34’ Sedan Bridge, so I know quite a bit about woodworking, glasswork, teak, general repair, electronics, etc. 

Anything in particular I should be looking for in this boat besides the usual when inspecting it? Hull integrity, sail condition, structural soundness, etc. is all a given. I’ve heard the fresh water tanks are collapsible jugs that are of poor design, but I don’t mind installing a real fresh water tank and pump. Any advise on other things to check would be greatly appreciated.

Also, what should I pay special attention to when checking the water ballast setup? Are there seals prone to leaking, or are there any other known issues I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Dan


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dan-

The boat should have a HIN or Hull Identification Number on the starboard side of the transom. If you write that down, and call MacGregor, they can tell you exactly what model boat it is, since the model of the boat is included in the HIN.

Which specific model boat it is will change what specific weaknesses/problem areas that it will have.

I'd recommend you read the *Boat Inspection Trip Tips Thread* I started.  I'd also recommend you read the POST in my signature.  Welcome to the Asylum... 

SD


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Sailingdog,

Thanks for the info. Your thread about inspecting a new boat was especially helpful. I had planned to pay to have the moisture content of the hull inspected, I had no idea I could get the tool to do it myself so cheap. That in and of itself was a huge help! When I go see this boat I'll be bringing a copy of your tips, as well as the usual tools (camera, tape, pen, pad, etc). 

The HIN telling me the model of boat is a good idea. I was hoping that perhaps only one of those models had a swing keel, or there was some other set of distinguishing characteristics that would help me figure out which model it was. I did some searching and came up dry, perhaps there is no such list.

Lastly, I did read the post in your sig, and it's always good to be familiar with the etiquette of a forum you're new to, so thank you. That said, I have to ask, which rule of etiquette did I violate with my OP? I didn't find my answers with a search (although I didn't use google - good call there) and I did try to include as much info as I had, which unfortunately wasn't much as I have not been to see the boat yet. I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can in a short period of time since there's a decent chance I'll be heading home with this boat by the end of the weekend. At the price, if it's as-advertised it may be too good to walk away from, and it's far enough that I'd rather not spend the time and gas to drive out there twice.

Again, thank you. I welcome the progression of my addiction from power to sail


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Dan;

I just went through this. I looked at several boats. One was a Mac Venture 25 (the one I ended up buying) and a Macgregor 26 (too much money for what I was looking for). The sites listed will give you some idea on how to read the HID. I give you an example of what yours ought to look like.

Nautical Know How - Boat Hull ID Numbers
Hull Numbers

MacGregor Sailing home
Hull ID

Check there for some information on the HID. I had to do that myself.

Yours ought to be something like: MAC 00123M86B

That would tell you Macgregor, hull s/n 00123 Mac 1986 made in Sep.

You'll find it on that boat on the starboard side of the transom about five inches below the line that joins the topsides to the hull.

The last letter is the month (A=Aug, B=Sep etc)

Rick


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Oh yeah, if it were an "X" model it would be like: MAC X0123M86B


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dan-

Glad to help... didn't violate anything AFAICT, but just did want to mention you should read it... it does have a lot of helpful information, including how to use Google to search sailnet's forums, since the forum's own search feature is less than useful a lot of the time.

Is there anyone there you can call to get the HIN number. That would allow you to do more, model-specific, research before going to see the boat. IIRC, several of them have a centerboard or swing keel, so it can be a PITA to tell the models apart. BTW, it is either a Macgregor M-26C, 26S, or 26X. Are you certain it has a water ballast system?

IIRC, the 26C and 26S are more traditional sailboats, and the 26X and 26M are powersailers-power boat/sailboat hybrids. Don't believe the 26C or 26S have water ballast, but I could be wrong. BTW, the 26 models didn't start until 1987 according to this *website*...so it may not be a Macgregor 26, but a Macgregor 25..

Good luck, and if you need anything else, just holler.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

I believe both the s and c models have water ballast from what I have read (Haven't seen one in person though).

I think all their boats under 30' (what did they make over 30, but a 60 and 75, right?) are pretty much all water-ballasted.

I did a lot of research on this kind of boat and decided against one myself. (Mine is a 79 Venture with a drop-keep using a crank and cable system)


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

N0NJY said:


> Dan;
> 
> I just went through this. I looked at several boats. One was a Mac Venture 25 (the one I ended up buying) and a Macgregor 26 (too much money for what I was looking for). The sites listed will give you some idea on how to read the HID. I give you an example of what yours ought to look like.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply - helpful links for sure! I'll give the seller a call and see if I can get him to get the HID for me. Is the # on the inside of the transom?

Thanks,

Dan


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Dan-
> 
> Glad to help... didn't violate anything AFAICT, but just did want to mention you should read it... it does have a lot of helpful information, including how to use Google to search sailnet's forums, since the forum's own search feature is less than useful a lot of the time.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and good to know I didn't violate anything on my first post! I'm going to try to call and get a HID from the seller.

I'm not positive it has a water ballast system. I just ASSumed it did because the pics I saw didn't appear to have a traditional keel, and my research showed that the MacGregors used the water ballast system. The boat was actually abandoned by a previous tenant of the seller 4 years ago, so the seller knows little about the boat. Again, thanks for all the help here!


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

DanKap said:


> Thanks for the reply - helpful links for sure! I'll give the seller a call and see if I can get him to get the HID for me. Is the # on the inside of the transom?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan


Mine is stamped into a metal plate and riveted to the outside of the transom.

Glance at those sites, they have some pictures of where the HID ought to appear. Some boats (I think newer boats) usually have it inside the cabin, on the hull somewhere (I have NOT found that on my boat - and I think it's only on later boats after 85 or something. I don't remember offhand)


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Have you seen this boat yourself yet?

If you're going to go examine it, the water ballast system is under the companionway - under the stairs. There will be a cover of some sort usually, and there is a valve system and a... for lack of a better word, cork  

The idea is that you open the "cork" (it is a removable device that you can look in and also allows air out). The valve is next to that. When you undog the valve it allows water into the tank. The "cork" lets air out as the tank fills.

Forward a bit there will be a centerboard that cranks up and down. It's not weighted much (which is why they use the water ballasting system!) and that should be checked for leaks and such around the bolt holding it.

Do you know if this boat is sitting on a trailer or hard, or is it in the water?

Rick


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Oh, found some more information on them. If you look, it will tell you about the M model too. (That one has extra ballasting in it)

MacGregor Yacht Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

HINs were required after 1972... one is located on the starboard transom, a second is somewhere else on the boat, usually in a locker or such.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

N0NJY said:


> Have you seen this boat yourself yet?
> 
> If you're going to go examine it, the water ballast system is under the companionway - under the stairs. There will be a cover of some sort usually, and there is a valve system and a... for lack of a better word, cork
> 
> ...


No, I have not seen the boat yet. It's far enough away that when I go to see it, I'll be going with enough cash in my pocket to buy it if I decide I want it.

Thanks for the tips on the ballast system, and to check around the centerboard. The boat is sitting on a trailer, and has been for 4 years, so it'll be tough to check for leaks. I'll do what I can. This is a steal of a price if it's in decent condition, so I expect to deal with some issues if I get it. Having been raised on older boats, I know how to do quite a bit and have the connections to get a hand when I need it.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

N0NJY said:


> Oh, found some more information on them. If you look, it will tell you about the M model too. (That one has extra ballasting in it)
> 
> MacGregor Yacht Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cool, thanks. Looks like it's a C, S or X based on that link and the swing keel. Hopefully the seller can tell me more.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

OK, just spoke with the seller again. He'll get me the HID Friday, but since I'm probably going to be looking at it Friday that'll make it tough to do much research once I get it. I'll probably have to look into the C, S & X models in the mean time, and go down armed with what I know.

He did know where to find the HID, said someone had been there today looking at it and took the HID down. Of course, all sellers say that, but for the price he's asking for this boat I believe him. I actually won't be surprised if it's sold before I get there on Friday.

In a way, that wouldn't be a bad thing, since it'll give me more time to research and choose a boat. On the other hand, if I don't end up with this one I likely won't end up making a purchase until next winter - I really don't have the $ this year but the price on this one makes it too good to let slide by assuming it all checks out. It also may not all check out - this could easily be one of those "if the price is too good to be true, it probably is" things. I am hoping it's priced as it is because of the issues with the title/abandoned thing, and him not having the desire or knowledge to fix it up before selling it, but there's always the chance it's priced as it is due to a more serious issue. I'll be planning on spending some serious time checking it over when I get there, if it's still available. 

I'll just keep my fingers crossed in the mean time, and take it as it comes to me (life and the deal, not the boat. The boat will have to pass inspection for me to take that).


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Gah - I've got a couple pics of the boat I was going to share, as it's likely all I'll have to go on until I get to see it on Friday. Unfortunately my post count is still 3 shy (well, 2 after this) of allowing that. I suppose if anyone cares to see them and offer an opinion or their thoughts they could shoot me a PM.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dan—

First, it's called a HIN, not HID...  Second, go to the Song Thread and post two times so you can post the photos... or reply twice to this thread.  BTW, you can't PM back until you have ten posts.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Huh... I started off calling it a HIN, too. Working on boat research, RC planes and bike lighting all at once. Brain freeze. Probably got the HID from the lighting thing. Thanks for the correction, anyway.

Anyway, only one more to go now


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

In full shameless fashion, I'm going to announce with this post that my next post will have pictures of the boat in question!


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

And here they are! Unfortunately these and what I've said so far are probably all I'll have to go on until I get to see the boat on Friday, assuming it's still available. 

















I've been looking into the 26C, 26S & 26X for the past little bit. On the down side, I'm not exactly drowning in info and differences between the three. On the bright side, it does seem these are more traditional sailboats than powerboats modified for sails, like the M & X models. I'm considering this a good thing. They may not pull water skiers, but my fam already has a boat for that. I'm liking that these three seem well suited to the extra long shaft Suzuki 9.9HP engine that I happen to already have collecting dust.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Here's what I've got so far between the 3.

The 26S is tiller-steered
The 26 X is wheel steered
26S is lighter
26S has 4'8 head clearance in the cabin, but uses a pop top to get 6'1 in the aft of the cabin
26X has 5'10 head clearance (I'm 5'10 without shoes, so I'll be ducking a touch anyway)
26C has a 7'11" beam
26x has 7'10 beam
26c has 1200lb ballast
26x has 1400lb ballast
26c has 28' mast
26x has 31' mast

I'm sure a lot of this changed from year to year, and the stuff above is general info I found, not specific to the year I'm looking at. Aside from the tiller vs. wheel steering and headroom vs. pop-top, I'm not finding a lot of smoking gun type differences. 

I don't think I like the collapsable 5 gallon water tank used for fresh water. If there's room in the bilge, I think I'd like to install a traditional plastic fresh water tank and pump.

I'm not done searching by any means, but finding the specific differences between the two has not been easy, and finding problems specific to each (something I'd be more interested in) has been even harder.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think that may be a 26s... since it looks like it might have a poptop.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

I think you actually may be right! I had been picturing the pop top as canvas for some reason, but I just found these pics of a 1986 26S. Striking resemblance, if I do say so myself.

















From the same site, a brochure pic showing the interior. I'd be thrilled to find this kind of room in a 26' sailboat!









They also claim 10-15 minutes for one person to raise the mast and sail away. Considering I'd have to step the mast to get to the marina my parents keep their boat at, which would likely mean doing this really often, that's also really good news. I had figured that to be a major process. If they say 10-15 minutes I might actually be able to do it in real world conditions in 30.

This picture shows, among other things, how the top pops up (bottom left). I'd bet I can plan on replacing the plastic side windows on a boat that's been sitting 4 years. Still, for the asking price I'm willing to deal with that, assuming the title can be sorted out and the structural stuff and sails check out.









Thanks for pointing that out, good eye!

Dan


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The low cabin top and the big square on the cabintop where the sliding hatch is located are both pretty good indicators, IMHO, that she's a 26s.  The cabin ain't tall enough to be an X. Could be a 26C, but don't know the headroom in that boat... so don't know how tall the cabin was.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

I got the HIN, but it leaves me with some questions.

The first 3 characters are Mac, which means macgregor

The next character is R, which means Mac 25, full interior liner. So apparently the seller was wrong about the model, and it's a Mac 25. Whole new set of research to do now. Or, alternatively, the Hull ID checking site is wrong, which seems less likely.

The next 4 are the hull serial #

Then F8, with F meaning Feb, and 8 being the last digit of the year, which would be 8.

Then it's 86, which would be the model year. 

That confuses me here is that the F8 suggests the last digit of the year would be 8, but the 86 on the end suggests it's an 86 (which is what the seller said) making the last digit of the year a 6, not an 8. I appear to be missing something here.

Also, the MACR suggests it's a MAc 25, not a Mac 26. Whole different boat.

Am I missing something here? Perhaps the seller wrote the # wrong? I'll find out for sure tomorrow, but I'd like to know as much as I can for research tonight. I'm a bit puzzled at the moment.

I also need to call the Marine & RV theft bureau to make sure it's eligible for an abandoned title. I'll try this tomorrow AM, but if I have the wrong # that'll be a strike out, at least until I get to the boat and see the HIN for myself.

So, in total the HIN is MACR####F886 where #### is the hull serial no. (Not sure if it would be wise to put the entire thing on the internet).

Any suggestions or input, as always, is appreciated.

Dan


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dan-
In most states, the only legal way to get the title is for the "warehouse" owner to file a "warehouseman's lien" or "storage lien" against the vehicle, stating that he has been owed so many dollars per day/week/month for storage, that the bill now exceeds a value of ##, and that he has been unable to contact the owner. The exact terms and name of this lien may vary--but if "the guy" is honest about trying to take title and sell the boat, HE has to go through that process, as the "warehouse man", and then the title can be legally transferred TO HIM. That may take some time, so there's no way he can simply "sell the boat" to anyone until that procedure is completed.

Once the title is assigned to him--if it is assigned to him--then he can sell the boat and sign over the title to anyone, on the spot. Just do not assume that you can legally buy the boat AT ALL until AFTER he has the title assigned in his name.

And, obviously, he needs the HIN to file his lien against the boat. If he didn't know that--either he's not aware of the process, or he's stealing someone's boat.

AFAIK, in most states titled property is rarely considered "abandoned". You might want to check with your state, to see just what the options are.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. Here's the background, as I understand it. The boats original owner was renting a property from this guy. 4 years ago he up and took off, leaving everything including the boat behind, no forwarding address, no paying bills, etc. The boat has been sitting since.

I did do some research on abandoned boats in MA (the state the boat is in, and was last registered in). It does seem that it can be claimed as abandoned. I'm unsure if I can claim it, or if he has to. Here's the info on how it works in MA
PROCEDURES FOR OBTAINING LEGAL OWNERSHIP OF ABANDONED OR SALVAGED BOATS
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dle/abandonedproc.pdf

It seems this boat falls into definition A of abandoned, by that law (page 1 of the PDF).

It seems the first step, and the step I plan to take tomorrow once I have the HIN and have inspected the boat, would be to call the Marine Theft Office @ 800-632-8075. If it comes up clean and not needing an inspection there, it seems the next step would be to send a letter to the owners last known address (which is the sellers house, so that's sure to be returned "moved no forwarding address", since that's just what the guy did.)

This process is a big part of tomorrows meeting with the seller, and I plan to learn more when I call the Marine Theft Office with the HIN and explain the situation. Any help, advice or insight you could provide would be most appreciated.

How we're going to handle the title is still in the air. I won't be paying for the boat unless I can title it. I may reach an agreement with the seller where I go through all the claim process, signing a contract with him to pay for the boat if/when I am able to get a title. I'm learning more about this process as time goes on and I learn more about the boat, so like I said I'd really appreciate and welcome any insight or help. It does appear to me, though, that based on the info on the above linked pdf this boat is eligible to be claimed as abandoned.

Even if he has to be the one to claim the title, I still need to inspect the boat and see if I'd be willing to enter a contract agreeing to buy it if he is issued a title. Without a buyer lined up I get the impression the seller is just going to let the boat sit.

I am quite possibly in over my head, and hope to learn more when I make my calls tomorrow. I'm all ears for any input on here in the mean time!

Thanks,

Dan


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dunno, Dan. Since the boat was stored WITH the knowledge and consent (and presumably for fee) of the property owner--that would appear to make it specifically exempt according to the third line of that document. 

I guess it depends on how MA interprets "consent", because the consent apparently was given--and it is just terms have now been exceeded. A bit funny that the "landlord" didn't have any other address or contact information though. And of course, if the registration address comes back to the same location the boat is stored at--the question is, can you abandon a boat at your home adddress? And "home" pretty much inplies "consent" or more, to me.

I expect your marine theft people will have some firm words to say about this. And, if MA registers boats and treats them as "motor vehicles" when they have motors--you may need to go through the DMV as well.

Either way, good hunting!


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks, that's a good angle, and one I had not thought of. It will certainly be interesting to see what the marine theft people have to say on the subject. I think one thing is for certain - I won't be bringing cash with me tomorrow. A check, perhaps, and my father since he's in business for himself and in the habit of writing up legally binding contracts (not to mention he taught me everything I know about boats), but no cash.

I don't find it surprising that the guy bailed with no forwarding address, I know a few people who have rental properties and it's not at all uncommon. In fact, the one place I rented I left without a forwarding address (although I did stay my lease, pay all bills and leave on good terms - I just never left an address).

I'll call marine theft before I head down. They may save me a drive.

It'd be disappointing to lose out on this one, it's not every day you find a deal like this. Then again, if I can't get a title it's not a deal at all. It'll take me more time to save up enough $ to buy something in this class at normal prices, but it'd also give me more time to research and get the right boat. Like I said before, I'll take it like it comes. I'm making the transition from power and paddling to sailing one way or the other - it just may not be in time for this season if this deal falls through.

Depending what marine theft has to say, maybe I can get this guy to get a title before selling me the boat. I might even be willing to pay enough extra to cover his expenses in getting the title, if it's in the condition he says. 

One thing is for sure, tomorrow should be an interesting day!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

HS makes some good points... However, I'd add that many towns and the state have loosened laws regarding "abandoned" boats, to make it easier for marinas and such to take title of boats that were originally stored with consent, but have exceeded those terms. 

A boat that was a paying customer's is only given consent as long as the person has paid his bills AFAIK. If the marina/boatyard can't contact the owner, there is a timeframe in which the boat will sit in limbo, but after that time, the boat will be considered abandoned. In any case, if the owner doesn't respond in a timely fashion and owes storage fees on the boat, the marina/boatyard generally has the right to sell the boat to collect said fees. 

BTW, Dan, if since you're in Massachusetts, if you want company when you go to look at the boat, let me know... at least if it is in eastern Massachusetts.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks Saildog. I'm hoping the DMV and marine theft division are open today, and I can get some concrete answers from them. I'd love to meet you and have a second set of eyes looking at the boat, but we're pretty short on notice at this point - I'm looking at the boat today. I'll shoot you a PM in case it happens to be in your back yard, and you want to swing by.

Dan


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Well, after the typical runaround one gets when trying to get anything done calling the state, I did get some info. It seems the boat probably is eligible to be considered abandoned, but the only person who can file that claim is the person whose property the boat is abandoned on - there's no channel for me to try to get a title for it. I called the seller back and told him this, and he said he'd look into it a bit more and get back to me. In the mean time, it seems like my search will have to continue. Thanks for all the help here.


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## Guzzi (Oct 9, 2008)

DanKap said:


> Here's what I've got so far between the 3.
> 
> The 26S is tiller-steered
> The 26 X is wheel steered
> ...


The big differences between the S model and X and M models is the X and M models are trailerable motorsailors and the S is a traditional water ballasted trailerable sailboat. There really is no comparison between the motorsailors and the traditional sailboats such as the S or D.

The difference between the S and D models is simple: S is for swing keel and D is for daggerboard.

The 9.9 hp engine will push a S or D model just fine.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

So, they say all's well that ends well. Turns out the wrong hull ID & model solved the title issue as well - it was the wrong boat! Mac 26 is somebody else's problem, sans title. Mac 25, on the other hand, is mine - legal beagle style. This guy may not be running a boat yard, but he's got a few lying around 

Hull looks good, mainsail is in great shape save for some cosmetic stuff, jib is new in a bag. Needs some basic fiberglass work up top, and the wood runners for the sliding top above the door needs to be replaced. Speaking of doors, it needs one made. 

Interior is going to need a whole lot of TLC. Carpet needs replacing, cushions need recovering, and if I want a sink or any sort of fresh water system I'm going to need to install it. Also needs some electrical TLC. I think I'll just run new wires for the running and cabin lights, install a bilge pump and stereo, and see what else she needs from there.

She's a fixer upper for sure, but nothing terribly major - I've done more work to power boats in the past. The sails alone have to be worth what I paid for her, so I'm looking forward to getting into fixing her up real nice.

Also, the rudder needs to be reattached and the cable to control the swing keel needs reconnecting or replacing.

Thanks again for all the help here. This should be a fun project from this point forward! I expect to be very busy this winter, and likely most of next summer as well.


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## Guzzi (Oct 9, 2008)

For a little help in finding stuff and advise for your new Mac check out this:

MacgregorOwners.com - Home


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Also Trailer Sailer has a Mac forum.*

Macgregor/Venture Forum - Message Index


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks to you both. I've certainly got some learning to do now. Seems some of the hardware for the rigging needs replacing, which is probably the only thing that needs doing that is outside of what I can do. I figure I'll see what I can find online, and worst case bring it to a sail place to see if they can't help me identify what I need and maybe improve some of the missing/broken stuff with better, more up to date stuff. I figure I'll have plenty of questions now - not sure if I should ask them here or start a new thread for the 25, since that's what it is.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Got some pictures up here. I sure could use an owners manual for this thing! I'm looking forward to the glasswork and woodwork, as well as the interior refinishing. Figuring out the pulleys & ratchets for the rigging, as well as the clip type deals etc. that support the mast are going to be a challenge. Anyone know where I could find a manual for this beauty?

Picasa Web Albums - Dan - MacGregor 25


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Dan,
Congrats on the new Mac 25'. There are many other folks here (and there) who have owned or still own this model of sailboat. 
I would not be surprised if you found an owners manual on the boat somewhere but if you did not you should make another post about the owners manual and I am sure someone has one available on-line. 
Is the boat a MacG Venture 25' or just a MacG 25' (not really sure there is a difference, just differences with each years production line)? 
MacGregor made the 25's before the 26's (S,D,M,X etc) and most of their owners really enjoyed this trailerable sailboat.
Once you get the title will you tell us what it cost you up front?

It sounds like you got a very good deal.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks Caleb.
I did find an owners manual, and I'm sure it'll be helpful down the road. Right now I'm still at the stage of figuring out how the rigging works for mast support, etc. Unfortunately the manual doesn't cover that. I had the mast up yesterday with a friend who has done a little sailing just trying to figure some things out, but even though we did get the mast up and stable I think the main thing we learned is that we don't know much! I love projects and learning, so I know I'll get it. Going to be a long road figuring all this out though. Right now my main obstacle is figuring out how the rigging works in regards to stabilizing the mast, controlling boom swing, etc. Going to be hunting my boating buddy network for people with sailing knowledge (unfortunately they're mostly all power boaters) and spending a lot of time on google to start with. Second on the list is fixing the swing keel cable/winch. Have not looked at that much, I'm sure I can get it. The fiberglass work is already underway!

It's a normal 25, not a Venture. I am only going by the vin here, I don't know the difference. 

I suppose now that it's done, I can tell the price. I paid $500 boat and trailer. No motor, but I already have a long shaft 9.9 Suzuki that'll make a fine kicker. I figure the mainsail in good condition (solid stitching & canvas, no stich fraying when tested with fingernail, etc) and brand new jib combined with solid and good looking hull and deck made it a deal. It needs work, but nothing I can't handle. As I said, my big concern right now is figuring out the rigging for supporting the mast, controlling boom swing, etc. My post above has pictures showing her. For the price I think I did well.

This may sound backwards, but when starting something new I enjoy getting something that requires a work up front. Allows me to get familiar with it (in this case, my boat) before using it. I have found with other hobbies (power boating, bicycling, motorcycling, RC planes, etc) that the knowledge learned getting something together before being able to use it pays off down the road. For example, in this case I'll learn enough about how everything works and what it does before setting sail that if I have an issue on the water I'll have a better understanding of whatever the problem part does and how it works, and as a result will have a better chance of resolving the issue on the spot at least well enough to continue on, rather than being part of the club that has to call TowBoat US every time something unexpected happens. Of course, I'll have the kicker to help as well, but the point remains.

Sorry for the extra long rambling post, I'm really excited about the new boat and it appears to be showing through my keyboard. 

Also, if anyone has one of these boats and would be so kind as to post or show some pictures showing what goes where in regards to supporting the mast, controlling the boom, etc. I'd be most appreciative. 

Dan


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

A question about terminology, so I can help myself look like less of a fool as I describe things in this thread. Are the terms the same when on a sailboat vs. a powerboat? I know gunwales remain, but is back deck still correct for the area behind the cabin? Is bow correct for the area that you'd walk on topside toward the bow of the boat still correct? Is "house" correct for the raised area topside between the gunwales that you'd walk across above the cabin, by where the mast meets the boat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dan—

I'd highly recommend you pick up a copy of Dave Seidman's The Complete Sailor. It's an excellent book for sailors of all levels, and covers a wide range of sailing terminology, theory, history and technique without being overwhelming. It is the book I generally give to new crew on my boat to read.  About $15 at your local big book store chain. 

Most sailboats don't have an after deck, since the cockpit is there, just aft of the cabin. The cabintop is the section that you walk on between the sidedecks and forward of the cockpit. This usually slopes down to meet the foredeck, just forward of the mast. 

The foredeck is the forward portion of the deck that is usually used for handling the headsails, ground tackle, etc. It is often were the anchor locker is located. Often a hatch in the foredeck area, or just aft of the foredeck will allow you to drop headsails or spinnakers down into the v-berth for stowage.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Awesome! Thanks for the terminology tips, I'm going to print and practice that stuff until it's second nature (I told you I like to learn!). I'll also hit the bookstore and pick up a copy of that book tomorrow. I imagine I'll read it over and over until I can predict the next line - again, it's how I like to learn things. Foredeck I knew - so used to powerboaters calling it the bow I slipped there. No excuse for that - going to have to imprint this stuff for real now. Part of what gets me wanting to sail so bad is the difference in the people. Too many powerboaters use words like "front, back, left, right and rope" for my liking. I'm really excited to start this new chapter. 

Again, thanks for the reccomended reading and the corrections in terminology. Please, correct any mistakes I make as I go on here on the forum, and any other suggested reading is welcome as well.

When I was 11 I passed the USCG auxilary course to get certified to run bigger powerboats, but skipped the sailing course of the test. I think I may take it again next winter, and focus on the sailing part this time (since I'm pretty sure I could pass the power portion again no problem).

Thanks,

Dan


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

One more question: Any websites anybody could suggest that give a breakdown of sailing terminology? I wouldn't mind something I could print out and start studying tonight, give myself a head start 

I have found and printed some stuff from the web that should give me a good start, so I'm really only looking for a specific reccomendation that one of you can vouch for - I've got the generic google results covered (which very well may be plenty until I get that book)

Thanks,

Dan


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## whalebone (Dec 5, 2008)

hi sailingdog , you ever see a mac 26 with a fixed keel??? all the mac's i've seen all had swing keel or water balasted?? Tried to send picture of boat but no can do ?????????? Iam an idot when it comes to computer stuff


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## Jock-san (Dec 22, 2003)

Hi, Dan.

What you called 'pulleys' with ratchets on either side of the cockpit are winches. Those are for controlling the sheets for the headsail.

The other part you guessed is for controlling the boom (you guessed right), is a block (captive pulley wheel or wheels and the frame that holds them) with a jaw cleat (as you noted). As it's the boom, and the boom is for the mainsail, it's the lower mainsheet block. I expect the main sheet goes from the becket on that block (the separate white rod), through the block on the boom, back through the bottom block, and of course you can then cleat it off.

But yes, get the book. Good luck !


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Excellent newbie info here:

All about sailing - Online Sailing Course

The "boats and rigging" tab will take you to a basic glossary of sailboat vocabulary.

An intelligent sailor knows what he knows. A smart sailor knows what he doesn't know. A successful sailor knows what he doesn't know, and knows how to find the answers.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Cool, thanks! Learning all along, and loving it. Now I've just got to figure out where everything goes and how it's routed. Hopefully the book helps with that!  If not, I'm sure I'll be able to recruit a sailor to show me, but I'd like to be able to figure out how to at least rig it on my own. What you've just told me is a definite help.

Anyone know where I could find a diagram showing where all these lines go? Will that perhaps be in the book?

I'm having a hard time picturing the routing as you explain it (due to my ignorance of how these things work, no doubt - no dig on your explanation).

Is the line for the mainsheet cleated to the traditional cleat next to the winch? I had it in my head for some reason that the traditional cleats would be used for dock lines, fenders, etc. and the self-locking type cleat things would be used to secure rigging lines.

Also does the line that raises and lowers the mainsail go through the ring foreward of the winch before heading to the top of the mast? That would make sense, I think. Here's the pic that explains what I'm thinking of. I'm picturing a line attached to the top of the mainsail going through the pulley (block?) at the top of the mast, down through the ring to the right of the picture, around the winch and then cleated to the cleat to the left of the pic.









Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself on all this anyway, as I've yet to figure out the proper way to secure the mast vertically


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

bljones said:


> Excellent newbie info here:
> 
> All about sailing - Online Sailing Course
> 
> ...


Great link, thanks! I've been looking for something like that. That should keep me busy tonight until I get the book, and be a nice tool to use with the book in the future.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Oh yeah, and as far as recommended reading, pick up the entire Don Casey library. It will be the best hundred clams (or thereabouts) you will spend on your old boat, and will either a) save you thousands on projects you NEED to do or b) cost you hundreds on projects that you now just really HAVE to do.

Amazon.com: This Old Boat: Don Casey: Books


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

bljones said:


> Oh yeah, and as far as recommended reading, pick up the entire Don Casey library. It will be the best hundred clams (or thereabouts) you will spend on your old boat, and will either a) save you thousands on projects you NEED to do or b) cost you hundreds on projects that you now just really HAVE to do.
> 
> Amazon.com: This Old Boat: Don Casey: Books


Haha - awesome! Is this something that's going to help me understand the basic prinicples I need to understand to get myself going, or is this for improvements and modifications once I figure out the basics?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Both. he has written books on hull repair, electrical repair, canvas work, basic boat maintenance and inspection, etc.,


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

bljones said:


> Both. he has written books on hull repair, electrical repair, canvas work, basic boat maintenance and inspection, etc.,


Cool, thanks. I'll be spending some time at the bookstore tomorrow for sure!


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## Jock-san (Dec 22, 2003)

DanKap said:


> I'm having a hard time picturing the routing as you explain it (due to my ignorance of how these things work, no doubt - no dig on your explanation).
> 
> Is the line for the mainsheet cleated to the traditional cleat next to the winch? I had it in my head for some reason that the traditional cleats would be used for dock lines, fenders, etc. and the self-locking type cleat things would be used to secure rigging lines.
> 
> ...


The mainsheet goes from the lower mainsheet block, through the mainsheet block at or near the end of the boom, and back to the lower mainsheet block, where you cleat it with the jaw cleat mounted on that block. The mainsheet doesn't go anywhere near the winches at each side of the cockpit.

The rope to raise the mainsail is the main halyard. It also doesn't go anywhere near those two winches. Those and the cleat next to them are for the headsail sheets. I'm not familiar with the Mac 25, but I'm guessing since there's no block and I see no other track for the headsail sheets, that those tracks and the cars on them in this picture, are the fairleads for the headsail sheets. The sheets run from the aft corner of the headsail (the clew), through the car on the fairlead track, round the winch, and are cleated off at that cleat. The car is moved on the track to adjust the sheeting angle.

My guess is that your boat will have the main halyard run from the head of the sail, over the upper sheave (pulley) and be cleated on the mast itself.

But get a sailor to show you, wait till you've looked more comprehensively at the books, or even go and look at some sailboats in the marina that are about the same size or smaller. You'll get it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

IIRC, there were one or two that were prototype boats that had fixed keels. IIRC< the were made as a joint venture with MacGregor and someone else, just to see how well they could get a Mac 26 hull to perform.



whalebone said:


> hi sailingdog , you ever see a mac 26 with a fixed keel??? all the mac's i've seen all had swing keel or water balasted?? Tried to send picture of boat but no can do ?????????? Iam an idot when it comes to computer stuff


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

OK, I think I have a better understanding of what I'm missing in regards to standing the mast, which seems to be one of the first things I need to figure out.
I have a headstay (which also seems to be designed to hold the jib?) and a backstay, as well as shrouds (cables, in this case) that come from a short distance up the mast to chain plates mounted a couple feet to each side of the base of the mast on the cabintop. They can be seen in this pic.








I appear to be in need of the shrouds that would come from the top of the mast to the spreaders and then down to the deck. I believe those spreaders would attach to the brackets shown in this photo? Can these be line, or will I have to have them made from cable?








Does it make sense the spreaders would be mounted to the mast toward the top, but not right at the top, instead at the same location the headstay mounts? Here's a picture showing where I expect the main sidestays would attach to the mast.








Also, the spreaders do not seem as secure to the mast as I'd expect them to be. This could be the result of damage, or the way they are designed. Either way, they have play to pivot fore and aft. Below is a picture showing the spreaders attached to the mast. Also, there are brackets there that seem like they could be attachment points for more stays. Any ideas?








The part of the spreader where the stay would pass through is also broken. It looks like it could be replaced independently of the spreader itself, and may lend a clue to the more experienced eye if the stay that is intended to pass through it should be line or cable.








And for my last picture-question of this post, I have 2 pulleys (blocks?) at the top of the mast. Would I be correct in assuming one is for the mainsail and the other for the jib?









Again, thanks so much for the help. I feel like I'm making real progress already!

Disclaimer: The tarp is only lying over the mast like that to keep rain out of the cabin for now, I'll be building a wooden frame over the boat before any snow hits, to keep the weight of the snow from bending the spreaders, among other things.

Thanks again,

Dan


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Jock-san said:


> The mainsheet goes from the lower mainsheet block, through the mainsheet block at or near the end of the boom, and back to the lower mainsheet block, where you cleat it with the jaw cleat mounted on that block. The mainsheet doesn't go anywhere near the winches at each side of the cockpit.
> 
> The rope to raise the mainsail is the main halyard. It also doesn't go anywhere near those two winches. Those and the cleat next to them are for the headsail sheets. I'm not familiar with the Mac 25, but I'm guessing since there's no block and I see no other track for the headsail sheets, that those tracks and the cars on them in this picture, are the fairleads for the headsail sheets. The sheets run from the aft corner of the headsail (the clew), through the car on the fairlead track, round the winch, and are cleated off at that cleat. The car is moved on the track to adjust the sheeting angle.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I understand more now, but still not fully. I think looking at some rigged boats will help, but the books and having a sailor look at my boat with me will be the biggest help of all. Still, I'd like to learn and understand as much as I can on my own first, which I appear to be on the way to doing. Also, the less I'm missing when I get a real sailor to take a look at my boat with me, the more I figure he'll be able to show me. An example is the sidestays, I know I'm missing them so I may as well get them.

I can't express enough thanks for all the help I'm getting on this forum. You guys and gals are awesome. I can't believe how much I've learned in the past few days, especially this weekend alone!

Dan


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

DanKap said:


> OK, I think I have a better understanding of what I'm missing in regards to standing the mast, which seems to be one of the first things I need to figure out.
> I have a headstay (which also seems to be designed to hold the jib?) and a backstay, as well as shrouds (cables, in this case) that come from a short distance up the mast to chain plates mounted a couple feet to each side of the base of the mast on the cabintop. They can be seen in this pic.


Yes, those would be the lower shrouds, however you are missing the cap shrouds. 


> I appear to be in need of the shrouds that would come from the top of the mast to the spreaders and then down to the deck. I believe those spreaders would attach to the brackets shown in this photo? Can these be line, or will I have to have them made from cable?


The Cap shrouds really should be made of 1x19 stainless steel. Riggingonly.com or another good rigging shop can make them up for fairly little money. I'd highly recommend replacing them all at the same time.


> Does it make sense the spreaders would be mounted to the mast toward the top, but not right at the top, instead at the same location the headstay mounts? Here's a picture showing where I expect the main sidestays would attach to the mast.


Spreaders never mount at the same point where the cap shrouds terminate, since the cap shrouds have to go over the spreaders as they go down to meet the chain plates.


> Also, the spreaders do not seem as secure to the mast as I'd expect them to be. This could be the result of damage, or the way they are designed. Either way, they have play to pivot fore and aft. Below is a picture showing the spreaders attached to the mast. Also, there are brackets there that seem like they could be attachment points for more stays. Any ideas?


 I get the feeling that the spreader bracket is turned 90˚ from what it should be. Spreaders generally don't have to pivot fore-and-aft, but up-and-down. The spreaders should ideally bisect the angle the cap shroud forms with itself, so that the shroud doesn't put any torsional forces on the spreader, merely compression. There may be additional shrouds, especially if the mast has more than one set of spreaders.


> The part of the spreader where the stay would pass through is also broken. It looks like it could be replaced independently of the spreader itself, and may lend a clue to the more experienced eye if the stay that is intended to pass through it should be line or cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think one of those is for the topping lift and the other for the mainsail. I think the Mac 25 is a fractional rig and the jib halyard comes out a bit further down the mast. Both of those blocks are on the aft side of the mast, so neither would make much sense for a jib halyard.



> Again, thanks so much for the help. I feel like I'm making real progress already!
> 
> Disclaimer: The tarp is only lying over the mast like that to keep rain out of the cabin for now, I'll be building a wooden frame over the boat before any snow hits, to keep the weight of the snow from bending the spreaders, among other things.
> 
> ...


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Yes, those would be the lower shrouds, however you are missing the cap shrouds.
> The Cap shrouds really should be made of 1x19 stainless steel. Riggingonly.com or another good rigging shop can make them up for fairly little money. I'd highly recommend replacing them all at the same time.


Good to know. I'll have to do some measuring, get some pricing, inspect the current shrouds (at least the spreader shrouds appear to be in good shape, surprisingly enough) and make an order. I've got a few months before I really have to worry about it, so there's not too much of a rush.



> Spreaders never mount at the same point where the cap shrouds terminate, since the cap shrouds have to go over the spreaders as they go down to meet the chain plates.


That makes sense. So the upper mounts by the headstay brackets likely are for the cap shrouds.



> I get the feeling that the spreader bracket is turned 90˚ from what it should be. Spreaders generally don't have to pivot fore-and-aft, but up-and-down. The spreaders should ideally bisect the angle the cap shroud forms with itself, so that the shroud doesn't put any torsional forces on the spreader, merely compression. There may be additional shrouds, especially if the mast has more than one set of spreaders.


This is making more and more sense. This mast only has 1 set of spreaders, but that doesn't mean it's not missing any. Then again, all the Mac 25 pics I can find only show 1 set of spreaders, so there's a good chance that's all there's intended to be.



> I think one of those is for the topping lift and the other for the mainsail.


Again making sense. I was wondering what would hold the boom up!



> I think the Mac 25 is a fractional rig and the jib halyard comes out a bit further down the mast. Both of those blocks are on the aft side of the mast, so neither would make much sense for a jib halyard.


Again making sense. Based on pics I've found on the web I believe you're right about it being a fractional rig. I must have either not noticed the lower block, not knowing what to be looking for, or it's quite possible it's part of the long list of things missing on this particular boat. Either way, I'll find or replace it (or maybe find it and then replace it!).


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Murphy's law #27 of Resuscitating Old Abandoned Boats- Any part you buy that you think is missing, will suddenly appear shortly after receiving it's replacement.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

bljones said:


> Murphy's law #27 of Resuscitating Old Abandoned Boats- Any part you buy that you think is missing, will suddenly appear shortly after receiving it's replacement.


Another sensible rule. Tomorrow after work I'll have to climb in there with some serious lights (or perhaps just get up early and do it before work) and inspect every inch for any missing parts. The interior is a total mess, as my pics show, so it's quite possible a few of the missing goodies are in there.


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## Jock-san (Dec 22, 2003)

DanKap said:


> ...I believe those spreaders would attach to the brackets shown in this photo? Can these be line, or will I have to have them made from cable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the top picture is one of the chainplates, you may well find that you need the cap shrouds running masthead-spreader tip-chainplate; another set of intermediate shrouds running from the spreader bases to the other hole in the chainplates; and the lowers that you already have.

The big rigging suppliers sell a complete standing rigging wire set for many popular boats. You may want to compare the price for the whole set against the price for only the parts you need.

[Edit] Oh yeah. Shrouds go to the sides. Stays are for fore-and-aft support.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

good point... 


Jock-san said:


> *If the top picture is one of the chainplates, you may well find that you need the cap shrouds running masthead-spreader tip-chainplate; another set of intermediate shrouds running from the spreader bases to the other hole in the chainplates;* and the lowers that you already have.
> 
> The big rigging suppliers sell a complete standing rigging wire set for many popular boats. You may want to compare the price for the whole set against the price for only the parts you need.
> 
> [Edit] Oh yeah. Shrouds go to the sides. Stays are for fore-and-aft support.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Jock-san said:


> If the top picture is one of the chainplates, you may well find that you need the cap shrouds running masthead-spreader tip-chainplate; another set of intermediate shrouds running from the spreader bases to the other hole in the chainplates; and the lowers that you already have.
> 
> The big rigging suppliers sell a complete standing rigging wire set for many popular boats. You may want to compare the price for the whole set against the price for only the parts you need.
> 
> [Edit] Oh yeah. Shrouds go to the sides. Stays are for fore-and-aft support.


It appears you're right. After reading this post I searched the web some more, and found 2 sets of stays coming from the midship chainplate in a few of them. The angles of the stays suggest one could be going spreader bases, while the other would be going through the spreaders to the masthead. Here's are a few pics that are examples (I'm only linking the first because it's wide enough I'm afraid it will distort the page width):
http://www.elgaleonpirata.com.ar/images/avatars/2000198590443484c989ae6.jpg

















Something that strikes me as odd about all these pics is that the headstay on all these boats is a plain cable. What I was considering my headstay seemed to be intended to serve as a sort of mast for the jib as well. Unfortunately I am at work right now and none of the pictures I took display this. It was a cable that ran just like I'd expect a forestay to run, but had a sheathing over it that it seemed the base of the jib sale would run through, if that makes any sense. It also seemed to serve as a forestay quite well when my friend and I put the mast up in the yard, it had good tension and support to keep the mast from coming aft, just as the backstay had good tension to keep the mast from coming to the bow. Our only lack of stability seemed to be side to side, which was no doubt because we were connecting the lower shrouds wrong, and were missing the mid and upper shrounds altogether.

So, it's off to start getting an idea what rigging is going to cost me. Any suggested places besides riggingonly to start?

Thanks again! Slowly but surely we (well, I, with and due to your help) seem to be getting there.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

Jock-san said:


> The mainsheet goes from the lower mainsheet block, through the mainsheet block at or near the end of the boom, and back to the lower mainsheet block, where you cleat it with the jaw cleat mounted on that block. The mainsheet doesn't go anywhere near the winches at each side of the cockpit.


Rereading this and lookin at this picture, I think I understand this now too. Awesome.









So I would assume the line needs to be a specific diameter to go through the blocks smoothly, right? Is this something where I just bring a block with me to the marine store, or do I find an online rigging store that will know what size line this is going to want and just sell me a whole lot of it?


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Hey guys... HIN! Not HID, tooooooooooo many years of military acronyms for me (I fell into that quite naturally you know... Hull ID number - so I should have been saying HIDN) lol


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

If there is a 'sheathing' over the fore stay it may be for a rudimentary roller furling mechanism for the fore sail or jib. If there is a spool or spindle at the bottom of the sheathing and the sheathing freely spins around the fore stay I'd say conclusively that you have a fulrling mechanism. My friend's Mac 26S has this kind of home made furler setup. The 'sheathing' is generally referred to as an extrusion.
BTW, great price for a boat and trailer (even if a few parts may be missing like and engine - sounds like you have that one covered anyway). Your 9.9HP should be more then enough power for that boat (I hope its a 2 stroke and therefore lighter).
You are going to learn a lot about this boat by the time you get her into the water and that is great.


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## DanKap (Dec 24, 2008)

CalebD said:


> If there is a 'sheathing' over the fore stay it may be for a rudimentary roller furling mechanism for the fore sail or jib. If there is a spool or spindle at the bottom of the sheathing and the sheathing freely spins around the fore stay I'd say conclusively that you have a fulrling mechanism. My friend's Mac 26S has this kind of home made furler setup. The 'sheathing' is generally referred to as an extrusion.
> BTW, great price for a boat and trailer (even if a few parts may be missing like and engine - sounds like you have that one covered anyway). Your 9.9HP should be more then enough power for that boat (I hope its a 2 stroke and therefore lighter).
> You are going to learn a lot about this boat by the time you get her into the water and that is great.


Thanks. There is a spool/spindle type thing at the bottom of the sheathing. I'm not sure if the sheathing spins around the forestay, I didn't think to check that. Sounds like a furling mechanism though.

Good to hear it sounds like I got a good deal. I thought so, which is why I bought it  The 9.9 is a 2 stroke, so I should be good there. 
I plan to learn a ton by spring. I went to the book store yesterday, ordered "the complete sailor", and then picked up 1/2 dozen other sailing books from the used book store on my way back to work. I know you can only learn so much from a book, but I figure the more I can learn on my own the more practical and useful knowledge I'll be able to get out of my time spent with more knowledgable sailors. I'm loving this, and really looking forward to not only the sailing but the process of bringing her back to life.


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## mtwolf (Jul 14, 2000)

*Macgregor 26?*

More than likely it's a 25 if it has a swing keel. If it has a winch inside than it isn't a 26. Water ballast doesn't have a winch. Macgregor didn't come out with the 26 until 1987 as I recall.

John


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