# New member with a very speculative question



## ross carroll (Aug 14, 2020)

Hey, folks, 

I've done a fair amount of sailing over the years, almost all of it on Upper Klamath Lake in Oregon. This amounts to about zero experience otherwise, I realize. I have what is a very unusual question and hope you can give me some guidance: 

I'm a writer and currently writing a post-apocalyptic novel: I have a group of people traveling from Tucson to Crescent City, California, originally intended to be an overland expedition. As I'm plotting it now, however, they meet a woman on the road who has a sailboat at Rocky Point (Puerto Peñasco,) Sonora, Mexico, and she suggests they take her boat and sail there. Good plan! 

However. . . . In trying to compute how long that trip might take, I looked on your forum and found a question about sailing from San Diego to Crescent City, and the answers were not encouraging. Just getting around Point Conception was a challenge, a couple of people said, and expect rough weather and few safe harbors north of San Francisco. One person said don't even try it unless you're willing to sail to Hawaii first!

This is a big surprise to me. I taught summer school on the California Maritime Academy training ship The Golden Bear one summer. We cruised from San Francisco Bay down the coast to Costa Rica, across to the Cook Islands and back to San Francisco via Hawaii. We never saw adverse conditions except approaching Hawaii, where we had to wait a few days to let a hurricane pass. Even then, the seas were only about fifteen feet. A fun ride but nothing a good boat couldn't handle with ease. Also, a friend of mine sailed from Newport, Oregon to Baja some years ago, and he didn't comment on any adverse conditions when I saw him after he got back. 

So is this voyage such a big deal? I don't want anything in my book that strains credulity. 

Thanks for your indulgence, and I hope someone can help me out. 

Ross


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Are there zombies in your novel? We know about zombies and sailboats. I think she has alternative motives. Her family has turned to zombies and she has them down below. She wants to take these people she met on the road and feed them to her family. Sorry just couldn't help myself. Hope I didn't ruin your punch line.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

maybe a month 2500 miles and once you round the point it is almost all into the wind. can they stop along the way or do they have to watch out for the zombies


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The passage north up the west coast is done. It’s not particularly treacherous weather, as I understand it, rather prevailing winds and current working against you. It’s a struggle, with few ports of refuge in stretches.

The other thing to consider in your post apocalyptic world is where one would get the supplies and parts to keep a boat running. Sailboats sound self sufficient, but they aren’t. To be credible, it may need to acknowledge, even review, how they keep Jerry-rigging things back together.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

Maybe they start the trip before the world goes apocalyptic?

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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I believe the trip North from Cabo, is done in one of three ways. Motoring into the wind and ducking in when you can. , Sailing to Hawaii and then back to S.F. or following the old clipper ships route. ( out to sea north west a few hundred miles, pick up the high that allows you to head east.) That said, I've done none of the above, only read the reports.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

First, post apocalyptic where are you going to find enough food, water and fuel for how many people to be at sea for any length of time? Second, you want to take how many people into a country known in pre-apocalyptic times for dangerous cartels and gangs? Third, yes the Hawaii route is the easiest and safest, especially considering you may be met with hostile people every time you pull in somewhere because of the weather, on the coastal voyage. Fourth, Hawaii would also probably be unwelcoming, so you'd probably need enough food, water and fuel for all aboard for at least 60 days non-stop if you had good weather, and a lot more, if not.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

capta said:


> First, post apocalyptic where are you going to find enough food, water and fuel for how many people to be at sea for any length of time? Second, you want to take how many people into a country known in pre-apocalyptic times for dangerous cartels and gangs? Third, yes the Hawaii route is the easiest and safest, especially considering you may be met with hostile people every time you pull in somewhere because of the weather, on the coastal voyage. Fourth, Hawaii would also probably be unwelcoming, so you'd probably need enough food, water and fuel for all aboard for at least 60 days non-stop if you had good weather, and a lot more, if not.


Fishing, desalination, and solar/wind electric. Last you a few years until it needs MX..

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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

p1l0t said:


> Fishing, desalination, and solar/wind electric. Last you a few years until it needs MX..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Fishing is no longer a reliable source of food. Up until the late'90s I could count on fish for a portion of our food at sea. Ever since that, fishing is much more sporadic and no longer a reliable source of food. Solar is not reliable, it gives an average of about 1/4 of the rated amps per day and much less when sailing, because of heeling and sail shadows. Our windgen (an expensive one, 2k, not the cheapos) averages about 3 amps over a 24 hour day, year around. A desal takes power and according to how many people are aboard, a lot of power. Thus my statement about fuel, not necessarily for the engine per se, but to make power. I have no idea what MX is.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

All one needs is for their charge controller to whack out and their solar is near useless. Or for a cell in a battery to go bad. Not replacing any of these things in post-apocoliptic.

Maybe it’s just me, but our local electronics firm just said to me the other day that this sort of thing keeps them in business. I think they were trying to make me feel better about something that had nothing to do with what they were working on. i.e. ****e happens. It didn’t work.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think MX would mean mechanical attention.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

capta said:


> Fishing is no longer a reliable source of food. Up until the late'90s I could count on fish for a portion of our food at sea. Ever since that, fishing is much more sporadic and no longer a reliable source of food. Solar is not reliable, it gives an average of about 1/4 of the rated amps per day and much less when sailing, because of heeling and sail shadows. Our windgen (an expensive one, 2k, not the cheapos) averages about 3 amps over a 24 hour day, year around. A desal takes power and according to how many people are aboard, a lot of power. Thus my statement about fuel, not necessarily for the engine per se, but to make power. I have no idea what MX is.


I charge my standard marine battery on a $200 fold-out solar panel pretty well. Then again I have a little 15ft WWP so she doesn't use any power really. My ideal boat is like 30-35ft with dual electric in-board motors, solar panels, wind generator, diesel motor (I almost never have to use? Maybe that's a pipe dream), and have the motors be the kind that can genrate while you have a good wind.

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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Dual inboard electric motors as well as a diesel? Where are you going to sleep, sit or cook inside or outside that boat? It will look like an aircraft carrier with enough solar panels to charge the batteries that will take up the whole interior of a 35 foot boat, except where the motors and engine are. 
There are a lot of threads from guys that have converted to electric motors, and I'd suggest you begin reading them to get a realistic idea of what it really requires, power wise and charging wise.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

capta said:


> Dual inboard electric motors as well as a diesel? Where are you going to sleep, sit or cook inside or outside that boat? It will look like an aircraft carrier with enough solar panels to charge the batteries that will take up the whole interior of a 35 foot boat, except where the motors and engine are.
> There are a lot of threads from guys that have converted to electric motors, and I'd suggest you begin reading them to get a realistic idea of what it really requires, power wise and charging wise.


Yeah I'll have to check those out. The electric motors are pretty small I think from what I've seen. The diesel would only be for charging not hooked up to a propellor directly. So could be a relative small engine like a generator.

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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

p1l0t said:


> Yeah I'll have to check those out. The electric motors are pretty small I think from what I've seen. The diesel would only be for charging not hooked up to a propellor directly. So could be a relative small engine like a generator.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


On our boat, if I were to replace the diesel main engine, the genset necessary to charge the batteries should there not be enough sun or wind, and the batteries necessary to run the electric motor for any length of time would weigh considerably more than my current set up. Since we sail most of the time, we don't use much diesel on motive power, mostly on the genset.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

A more interesting scenario is that she is part of a cartel that wants to take a load of cocaine from Mexico to US via a narco submarine but needs crew to make the journey. (There are likely dozens of these vessels plying the Eastern Pacific in recent years.) The cartel is willing to hand over the "sub" once they offload near sleepy Humboldt Bay.


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## p1l0t (Jul 22, 2020)

gamayun said:


> A more interesting scenario is that she is part of a cartel that wants to take a load of cocaine from Mexico to US via a narco submarine but needs crew to make the journey. (There are likely dozens of these vessels plying the Eastern Pacific in recent years.) The cartel is willing to hand over the "sub" once they offload near sleepy Humboldt Bay.


Or a Navy Submarine that goes on a super classified NORDO 3 month mission to come back and find they are some of the few humans left on the planet..

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## ross carroll (Aug 14, 2020)

Hey, thanks everybody. I've got some good ideas from you. I especially like the idea of the submarine. Might try to work that in. 

One more question. What would be a reasonable trip time from Cabo to Oxnard? My general idea for the plot now is to have them round the tip of Baja at Cabo San Lucas then discover sailing the open ocean is a much bigger challenge than they anticipated. The make it as far as the CBC facility at Port Hueneme below Los where they encounter another survivor who has done a lot of local sailing. He advises them not to try getting around Point Conception if they're rookie sailors, which they are except for the boat owner, who has only sailed in the Gulf of California. So they go ashore and have to make their way to Crescent City overland. Adventures ensue. 

Sorry, no zombies, though when I send it out to agents I'll tell them that if you think I need a zombie, hey, I'll throw in a zombie. But no zombies as of now. That's for another book maybe. 

Cheers. Safe sailing.


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## ross carroll (Aug 14, 2020)

p1l0t said:


> Or a Navy Submarine that goes on a super classified NORDO 3 month mission to come back and find they are some of the few humans left on the planet..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I'm going to use this, thanks. Others who might be spared could include scientists at the South Pole, astronauts on the International Space Station, and remote tribes, such as in the Amazon, not to mention the occasional hermit. It's fascinating to me to think through how all of this could play out, which is why I've decided to stick to the most plausible plot I can.


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