# Catalina vs. Hunter



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi,

I have just registered. I do apologize if the question I am about to ask was already discussed 1,000 times. Just point me to the right thread please. I have no boat, but have a desire to get one. It has to be a Sail Boat. It has to be not expensive (less than $25k preferably) and it has to fit my family (wife + two kids). Also it has to be easy in handling: I have never sailed in my life. I do not plan to race it, but rather take family for weekends. I have so far seen Catalina and Hunter (30 - 35'; 1980 - 1990). All opinions about those two or any other boats of similar size/price are welcome.

Thanks!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given your comlete lack of experience, I would highly recommend that you do a few things first.

1) Take sailing lessons-An ASA 101 course for you and your wife, preferably separately. This will give you a foundation of skills to work from. Each of you should be capable of handling the boat singlehanded IMHO. This is a requirement IMHO, especially since you will have children aboard.

2) Take some time and crew on other people's boats, to get an idea of what kind of boat you're looking for.

3) Tell us where you are sailing and what kind of sailing you are planning on doing. Sailing on the local duck pond takes a different kind of boat than sailing on the San Francisco Bay, the Great Lakes or Buzzards Bay. Sailing short daysails might require a different boat than doing week-long coastal cruises.

It is going to be difficult to get a boat in decent shape that is above 30' for your budget. Not impossible, but difficult. Here is a listing of boats in that size range... most of the lower priced ones probably have some serious problems.

I would also recommend you leave about 15-20% of your purchase budget aside for doing re-fitting, upgrading and modifications to the boat and equipment. Boats are not like cars, and one-setup does not work equally welll for everybody.

Do you understand what the annual costs of keeping a larger boat are going to be in your area? Marina costs, winter storage costs if you're further north, hauling costs, insurance, and miscellaneous maintenance costs all add up pretty quickly. Marina and storage fees alone can be $3000 or more, depending on the market. A lot of people go into owning a boat without a clue. *It might make more sense to join a local sailing club initially... especially since you haven't sailed before. *Buying a boat is a rather large committment and if you end up hating sailing, can be a really expensive lesson.

Also, be aware that larger boats have larger costs associated with them, since the equipment is larger and more expensive, the boat is much bigger and many of the fees, like marina slip fees, haulout fees and such are charged by length. A 35' boat isn't 17% larger than a 30' boat, it is more like 60% bigger, since boats grow in three dimensions. A 30' boat is much more affordable than a 35' boat, especially to someone of limited budget.

However, I wouldn't go any smaller than 28' though... since the size difference between a 28' boat and a 25' boat is significant. This is especially true if your children are older, larger and more active.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Drylander said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have just registered. I do apologize if the question I am about to ask was already discussed 1,000 times. Just point me to the right thread please.


Thread? LOL! Thread*s*, my friend. I asked a similar question not long ago. Somebody else just a day or two ago. The beat goes on .

Here's the thread from a day or two ago: Newbies need help choosing a boat?
Here's my thread from a month or so back: Hunter Build Quality?
And here's where somebody asked similar questions back in 2001:  First time sail boat buyer

Read JeffH's responses _very_ carefully.



Drylander said:


> I have no boat, but have a desire to get one. It has to be a Sail Boat.


Have you ever sailed before? On anything, of any size?



Drylander said:


> It has to be not expensive (less than $25k preferably) and it has to fit my family (wife + two kids).


"Fit" is a relative term. Some families might do well on a two week vacation in a 28' boat. Others might need family counseling after a weekend in a 42' boat.



Drylander said:


> Also it has to be easy in handling:


"Easy handling" is so relative. True: There are some boats that are, for many reasons, more difficult to handle than others, but largely it comes down to the sailor's abilities.



Drylander said:


> I have never sailed in my life.


Ah, question #1 answered. You really need to get some sailing time in. I recommend local ASA 101, and perhaps 103, classes. Both you and your wife. Y'all will be sailing short-handed. One or the other of you may be required to sail it alone if the other becomes sick or injured. Looked at another way: Either of your two lives, and the lives of your children, may well depend on your and your wife's ability to sail the boat alone.



Drylander said:


> I do not plan to race it, but rather take family for weekends.


The former pastime is arguably safer than the latter.



Drylander said:


> I have so far seen Catalina and Hunter (30 - 35'; 1980 - 1990). All opinions about those two or any other boats of similar size/price are welcome.


I would recommend this is not the way to approach this project. Better would be to spend some time learning about sailing and sailboats (Sailnet _is_ a very good resource for both of these), *learn how to sail*, and _then_ go looking for a sailboat. Buying a sailboat is more like buying a house than a car.

As far as Catalina or Hunter boats: Some people like one, the other or both of them; others don't think much of one, the other or both of them; and still others think one, the other or both of them built some good boats, some not-so-good boats. After much discussion here and researching elsewhere, we were looking at other models. (Note: Our budget was about half yours, and our size range was 28' to 30'.) OTOH: The first boat we looked at was a 27' Catalina. The only reason we passed on it was 27' just wasn't quite big enough, for our needs, for cruising. Last weekend we sailed a 34' Hunter for two days, as part of our ASA 101 and ASA 103 classes, and it seemed a nice enough boat. Not my cup of tea, but nice enough. I guess.



Drylander said:


> Thanks!


You're quite welcome. And welcome to the sport and art of sailing! 

Jim


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailingdog is right on the money, take your time and enjoy the process/experience. Get a lesson or two, make a friend with a boat (boat owners love to take others out). Chances are you'll Sail the rest of your life, that is how powerful this sport is IMO and it's all about the journey. 

To answer the question: my opinion is that Catalina is a better sailing vessel and has better sailing characteristics. BUT my very good friend (owns a huge Hunter) would disagree so it is a little like Ford and Chevy. Best of Luck. gh


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## CatalinaFan (May 15, 2007)

The new Catalinas have cardboard veneer just like Hunter. :/

Older Catalinas are the bomb.

Catalina is losing its edge in the Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina debate.

Catalina needs a taller designer. Just kidding Gerry.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

In that price range for what you want, Catalina is going to provide you with more selection. On the West coast there are lots of 30's for sale. On yachtworld there are 54 Catalinas under 25k between 27 and 30', while there are only 4 Hunters in California. They are great boats, especially for a first boat. Easy to sail, lots of room, and built fairly solid. I would not get anything bigger than 30' for your first boat, while you may be able to sail it, upkeep, motoring and docking will be too difficult. Don't be tempted to spend more and buy a Hunter from the 1990's with some crazy rig design, not a good first boat to have. You will learn to sail differently than all other rig designs. If you really like Hunters, get an older Cherubini or Legend design. Find a friend that has a sailboat already that can go with you to look and point out good and bad things, don't trust the brokers. While not for everyone, you may want to consider buying into a local charter/school program. Hunter has a pretty good one, where you buy a new Hunter and they charter it. You get to use it the rest of the time, your payments are taken care of through the charter, they will teach you to sail it, and after about three years, you retain ownership. There are some down sides to this. The boat can get pretty beat up. I don't know all the particulars, but some people like it. New Hunters are not as bad as the older ones. Look here: Sail locally at a fraction of the cost with SailTime fractional sailing


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you all for your replies! I plan on buying a boat sometime in the early spring '08, so in the meantime I have time to prepare for boat ownership. Answering your questions, I live in Ventura county, CA and am planning to take boat out in the ocean (weekend trips to Catalina island or just cruising along the shore).
I think that the point about first taking classes is a good one. I take it that local community colleges offer ones, am I right? Maybe anyone local to Thousand Oaks, CA area can suggest a good school/instructor? Also, tips/suggestion on choosing a local Marina are very welcome. Are all Marinas created equal, or not? My local Marinas are in Oxnard, CA and Ventura, CA. Any suggestions?

I am not sure that local charter/school program is a good choice for us, since we work during the week and have weekends to use the boat, I take it that mainly on weekends the boat will be used by somebody else. Am I right in understanding the situation?

Thanks again!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

God, not this again.

Take lessons, join a club as crew, sail on both. There are real limits to the value of advice an internet forum can deliver, and this is one of them. It's like asking: "What's better to kill a tumour: chemo, surgery or radiation?" And by tumour, I mean Hunter.


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## tommyt (Sep 21, 2002)

I think that some of the Left Coasters need to advise you on marinas. My understanding is that they are pretty tight with long lists there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Valiente said:


> God, not this again.
> 
> Take lessons, join a club as crew, sail on both. There are real limits to the value of advice an internet forum can deliver, and this is one of them. It's like asking: "What's better to kill a tumour: chemo, surgery or radiation?" And by tumour, I mean Hunter.


I can understand your frustration, however if you read the body of my message (not just the title), there are more questions than just comparison of boats. I got good answers to some of them. As an excuse, I can point out that nobody is born with the knowledge of answers to these questions, even though to seasoned sailors like yourself they may sound trivial and stupid.

Thanks!


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

All marinas are not equal. Check them out personally and talk to the desk about ammenities and things like waiting lists. Also look at the surrounding area, you don't want to be somewhere that is not safe and secure. Not sure about the weather down there, but up here a five minute drive means the difference between being foggy and cold in a difficult sailing environment, and a sunny warm and calm marina.
Best of luck


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Drylander:
You need not to explain yourself, the internet, this sailing forum, and most forums in general prove to be a good starting point. A good post and I've gleamed something from it already as well. Again best of luck with your endeavor. gh


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*In that..*

In that price range condition, upkeep & upgrades matter far more than a brand like Catalina or Hunter. That being said, I see lots more Catalina's that are well cared for than Hunters on the market so you have a lot more boats, in decent condition, when looking at Catalina's. Catalina owners tend to be more maintenance minded than do Hunter owners IMHO. This is not to say you won't find a Hunter in good shape but there are just more well cared for Catalina's out there. Trust me I've now owned three Catalina's because I could find nice ones. One more thing.. SURVEY!!!!!!!

Disclaimer: I no longer own a Catalina and have no interest in pushing the brand over another brand. This is just my very honest view of the market as I see it.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Drylander said:


> I can understand your frustration, however if you read the body of my message (not just the title), there are more questions than just comparison of boats. I got good answers to some of them. As an excuse, I can point out that nobody is born with the knowledge of answers to these questions, even though to seasoned sailors like yourself they may sound trivial and stupid.
> 
> Thanks!


Your questions aren't trivial and stupid, and I'm not that seasoned.

But your questions HAVE been answered, many times. A simple search would have shown this, and my frustration arises from the fact that these sort of questions come up in the form of a new thread every two to three weeks. I'm not critical of your boating skills or history (I couldn't judge them anywhere but on the water, as some people who have skills galore can't express themselves well in writing), but I wish you and other people new to the forum would learn how to use the "search" tool.

It's on the blue bar, between "New Posts" and "Quick Links". Fair winds.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

I've said much the same about the search tool, to little or no avail.  It just doesn't happen.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Valiente said:


> Your questions aren't trivial and stupid, and I'm not that seasoned.
> 
> But your questions HAVE been answered, many times. A simple search would have shown this, and my frustration arises from the fact that these sort of questions come up in the form of a new thread every two to three weeks. I'm not critical of your boating skills or history (I couldn't judge them anywhere but on the water, as some people who have skills galore can't express themselves well in writing), but I wish you and other people new to the forum would learn how to use the "search" tool.
> 
> It's on the blue bar, between "New Posts" and "Quick Links". Fair winds.


I'll take it under advisement. The same time you are free to choose whether to waste your time answering my questions or not.

Thanks!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Opinions - hmm - okay...


> I have just registered.


Good first move !



> I do apologize if the question I am about to ask was already discussed 1,000 times. Just point me to the right thread please.


Not a serious problem, you just seem to have caught some folks when they are less than their regular, sunny selves.



> I have no boat, but have a desire to get one.


This is not a unique situation...



> It has to be a Sail Boat.


Good - for a newbie you are showing promise 



> It has to be not expensive (less than $25k preferably)


Well, that certainly is not expensive, I'll agree with you there...



> and it has to fit my family (wife + two kids).


Not sure what you mean by "fit". Do you mean they have to like it ? That there has to be room for all of them to sleep on it ? Cruiser rather than racer ???



> Also it has to be easy in handling


Okay - this is not a difficult criterion 



> I have never sailed in my life.


So why on earth are you thinking about buying a sailboat ?



> I do not plan to race it,


This is good, as it is possible that you might find racing a bit disappointing, given your level of experience 



> but rather take family for weekends.


Hmm - better you should learn a bit on your own, rather than drown the wife and kids on the first go



> I have so far seen Catalina and Hunter (30 - 35'; 1980 - 1990).


Do you mean looked at with an interest in purchasing ??? These boats are too big. Buy a small dinghy about 15 or so feet long. Learn to sail, then take your kids out, then take your wife out. Then buy a 20 - 22 foot sailboat and take them all out together at the same time. Keep this second boat for at least two years so that you can get an idea of what it costs to own and maintain it. Then research the difference between the costs associated with a 22 foot boat and a 30 foot boat and THE TIME it requires to maintain a 30 foot boat - because - if you don't maintain that 30 foot boat properly and you go sailing on the wrong day you could wind up with no wife, no kids, no boat and no hope...

Don't want to sound like a wet blanket, but in my opinion, people who buy 30 foot boats to learn on are water-borne hazards to be avoided at all costs.

Take it slow, enjoy, and don't subject your family to unnecessary danger. Good Luck !


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailormann said:


> Hmm - better you should learn a bit on your own, rather than drown the wife and kids on the first go


I am considering taking my mother-in-law on the first trip...



> Do you mean looked at with an interest in purchasing ??? These boats are too big. Buy a small dinghy about 15 or so feet long. Learn to sail, then take your kids out, then take your wife out. Then buy a 20 - 22 foot sailboat and take them all out together at the same time. Keep this second boat for at least two years so that you can get an idea of what it costs to own and maintain it. Then research the difference between the costs associated with a 22 foot boat and a 30 foot boat and THE TIME it requires to maintain a 30 foot boat - because - if you don't maintain that 30 foot boat properly and you go sailing on the wrong day you could wind up with no wife, no kids, no boat and no hope...


That is a good point, but life is too short and if I follow your advice, I'll probably get to 30' by the age of 80... I am not sure if I'll be fit enough to sale at that age... The reason I want to buy a boat is that I just recently moved close to the ocean and want to make the most of it now. For now, I just want to get myself introduced to sailing community and hopefully learn sailing before I buy my boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> That is a good point, but life is too short and if I follow your advice, I'll probably get to 30' by the age of 80... I am not sure if I'll be fit enough to sale at that age...


 It would take you about three or four years. If you are indeed taking this up at age 77 then - the kids are probably old enough to make their own decisions about their safety.

However, as your initial post seemed to indicate that they are young, you need to know that as pleasurable as sailing is, the forces that move a 30 foot boat through the water are sufficient to kill a member of your family, or yourself, faster than you would believe possible. You owe it to them to proceed intelligently.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Drylander—

First—take an ASA 101 basic sailing course. 

If you find you like sailing... have your wife do the same. I highly recommend that she take an all-women's course. 

If you both like it... then both of you should start your sailing careers by finding a good local marina or yatch club, and crewing on different boats and sailing different boats on your own. 

After a few months of this, if you're still in love with sailing, you both should take the more advanced ASA courses...103 (coastal cruising) 104 (bareboat chartering) 105 (coastal navigation). This will give you a pretty good overview of the different systems used on a cruising boat, as well as the basic techniques you need for navigating and handling a cruising boat. It will also get you a certificate, so you can charter a boat. 

If you're still game at this point... charter a boat or buy one.  

By this point in time, you should have a much better idea of what you're looking for in a boat—full-keel traditional bluewater cruiser, fin-keel racer/cruiser, multihull, etc.... as well as some idea of what kind of equipment you want on the boat—GPS, RADAR, VHF, SSB, chartplotter, refrigerator, etc. 

You can do all of this in under a year's time... but it is a bit more expensive than just buying the boat... However, it will prevent you from making a lot of mistakes, some of which are very dangerous, and some of which can be very expensive. Buying the wrong boat can be an expensive mistake. Not knowing pilotage or navigation techniques can be dangerous.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Drylander....Go buy a boat with the help of someone who knows more about boats than you do. Go sailing. 

Sail, sail, sail, and after a few months when the weather is bad, log onto sailnet and get all of your questions answered. Be safe of course, but this idea that you have to have a lifetime of sailing experience to be qualified to enjoy the water is nonsense. 

You already know you want to sail. You will love owning a boat. Try not to make a foolhardy purchase, but there are plenty of people that can help guide you to the right vessel. Go for it - don't even wait until '08 to start looking.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

I should add this....Hunter and Catalina are NOT the only options. Just because they are two of the most coomon doesn't mean they are the best choices. Look at different makers...look at lots of boats and you will form your own opinion after some time.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Your most economical way to do this is thru one of the clubs, you can charter many different boats at a reduced price and get all the instruction you need at a reduced price. I've attached a link to the fleet webpage for Marina Sailing in Channel Islands that has clubs in many other harbors.
Sailing the Southern California with Marina Sailing Charters


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

The Catalina 250 is a nice little family weekender/day sailor. It is comfortable. I have owned one in the past and would give it a reccomendation. I personally avoid water ballast and would go for a fixed keel. It does not have an inboard but instead an outboard which is one less thing for you to worry about as far as systems. It is forgiving and will not break the bank. Pretty good resale if you want to get rid of it and trade up, or get rid of it alltogether because you want to buy a Sea Ray and forget this sailing stuff.

As far as build quality between Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, and Jeauneau... I think I will steer clear of that one (smile). But I will tell you that I have owned 4 sailboats, all of them Catalinas.

If you have specific Catalina questions.. ask, and I will try and help. Or, if you have kiddo-sailing questions, ask, and I will try and help.

Fair winds and good luck in your search,

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cruisingdad said:


> If you have specific Catalina questions.. ask, and I will try and help. Or, if you have kiddo-sailing questions, ask, and I will try and help.
> 
> Fair winds and good luck in your search,
> 
> - CD


Thanks everybody for lots of info. I have pretty much made my mind in favor of charter for now. It will take me some time to complete ASA 101 & 103.

As far as the kiddo-sailing question is concerned: at what age do you think it is safe to start taking kids sailing? I understand that sailing experience of parents is a factor as well...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> at what age do you think it is safe to start taking kids sailing? I understand that sailing experience of parents is a factor as well...


Once you know a bit about what you are doing, and are confident that you can ensure their safety to a reasonable degree, it's good to start them young - before birth if the wife can still move around the boat safely , but definitely within the first three months of their life. No such thing as starting them too early..


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Very true. My wife and I sailed until she was seven months pregnant and then sailed with my son when he was five days old.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Pamlicotraveler said:


> I should add this....Hunter and Catalina are NOT the only options. Just because they are two of the most coomon doesn't mean they are the best choices. Look at different makers...look at lots of boats and you will form your own opinion after some time.


Well said...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Drylander said:


> Thanks everybody for lots of info. I have pretty much made my mind in favor of charter for now. It will take me some time to complete ASA 101 & 103.
> 
> As far as the kiddo-sailing question is concerned: at what age do you think it is safe to start taking kids sailing? I understand that sailing experience of parents is a factor as well...


My wife and I sailed long before kids. She and I sailed almost until she had Chase (our first), at which point we did not leave the docks much. It was less of a factor of her not wanting to - but the pregnancy induced sae sickness when we left the dock.

Chase was on board 5 days after birth. I cannot see how it is ever too early. The biggest issue for a new born is the temperature control. In Texas, where we were at the time of his birth, it is VERY hot in the sumer - so we needed to add a generator (already had air conditioning) to the boat. Not to make a long story out of this, but the cost of a genny on a Catalina 320 would exceed what we could ever get back, so we traded up to a 380 - where a generator might be more expected and a lot easier to install. Keep your temperatures in mind as you shop for boats. The 250 is WAYYYY too small for a generator (diesel, anyways). If you have temperature extrememes (hot or cold) and want to cruise/sail in those times, you better buy a boat that will handle that - or you will find yourself sitting on the boat all alone while the wife sits at the house with the children (cursing your name).

If I can, I will try and include some thoughts on this in my Cruising with Children thread.

Fair winds,

- CD


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> If I can, I will try and include some thoughts on this in my Cuising with Children thread.


For a second there I read that as "Cursing with Children". I know sailors are a rough lot, but....


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

HAHAHA... oops. I edited. (smile)

- CD


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Drylander is in L.A., Air conditioning probably not gonna be required, coastal temps. rarely exceed 80 degrees.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

capttb said:


> Drylander is in L.A., Air conditioning probably not gonna be required, coastal temps. rarely exceed 80 degrees.


Ahh, I did not realize that. Still, my point was the issues that faced us with new borns on board.

- CD


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

tommyt said:


> I think that some of the Left Coasters need to advise you on marinas. My understanding is that they are pretty tight with long lists there.


I hope this suggestion was not overlooked.
Make sure you have as place to slip the boat after you procure it.
You may have a boat with no where to slip it.

You have gotten some good advise as usual from Sailnetters.

Somebody else pointed out that there are other options for you.
I say..... get a benny. Good boat for the buck.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Valiente said:


> For a second there I read that as "Cursing with Children". I know sailors are a rough lot, but....


re: cursing with Children - That actually would warrant an article or a thread of its own.

We have a rule in our family that our kids are allowed to use any language they hear us use on the sailboat, but they can only use it on the sailboat. If they use it at home or anywhere else, we are responsible parents and will firmly correct their aberrance.

Our language is much more salty than it should be on the boat, but I never thought it was fair to give them a different set of rules. When I closed our hatch on my head recently (it's the spring-held kind, so when the hatch falls, it falls!) and the blood began to flow, I used words I had never even heard before.

That's the way I remember it with my Dad - and so... the circle is unbroken.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

It is good practice here to get a slip BEFORE you buy a boat, 'cause slips are much harder to find and waiting lists can be many years.
No A/C but I bet some really big fans to get some "fresh" air into the cabin would be welcome at times with a baby.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

PT-

This is priceless.. I love it... How strictly do you enforce it and how well does it work???




Pamlicotraveler said:


> re: cursing with Children - That actually would warrant an article or a thread of its own.
> 
> We have a rule in our family that our kids are allowed to use any language they hear us use on the sailboat, but they can only use it on the sailboat. If they use it at home or anywhere else, we are responsible parents and will firmly correct their aberrance.
> 
> ...


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> PT-
> 
> This is priceless.. I love it... How strictly do you enforce it and how well does it work???


Our boys are 15 & 16 yrs now, so they hear stuff at school too, but they probably have learned most of their inappropriate language initially from us on our boat.

At home we run "a tight ship"


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## Sailinmike (Jun 7, 2007)

20 minutes up the coast from you is Santa Barbara Sailing Center. They can help you with all your instructional needs and boat rentals from 18' to 32'. They're reasonably priced and wonderful folks to work with.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Dry - lots of good advice here, and its good to see that it seems to resonate with you. I think you will be very pleased that you decided to experience many boats before deciding what is important to you. There is absolutely nothing like experience to inform you what is important in a boat to YOU. Things that you initially liked or thought you couldn't do without will fade away into insignificance, and features you never considered will become your obsession. Case in point: after sailing on several friends' boats in the 27-35 foot range and time sharing on a Catalina 22, I determined that I wanted a relatively small boat with a large cockpit. I knew I would be daysailing solo for the most part, with an occasional overnighter/weekend. I thought a Catalina 22 would be great. However, the Admiral, after spending the summer on one, decreed the Catalina 22 unacceptable: the head had no privacy, and she wanted a door, not a curtain, between her and the world while enthroned. This lead to more in-depth research of other options. Luckily, a boat did exist with the features we both wanted: the Oday 23. The point here is not that my wife is a privacy freak, but that we never would have known how important that feature was to her without first experiencing sailing on that and other boats so we could compare and contrast.

As for when to sail with the kids, IMHO the most important factor to consider is YOUR level of comfort. If you or your wife is nervous or unsure of your sailing abilities, your kids will pick up on it. If you get a gust of wind that heels the boat suddenly and sharply, your kids will naturally look to you for reassurance. If they see Mom and Dad with white faces and saucer-sized eyes, then you can bet "panic" is next on the agenda. I agree with CD and the others who said that its never too early to take your kids sailing; however, I would only do so after you are confident that you have the necessary skills.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Verry good point mstern.
The wife factor is a big key.
The wife must be comfortable or she will make your life uncomfortable.

After moving up in lenght we thought our current boat would be everything we ever wanted. Three years later and we are realizing there is other stuff we would like to have. An island berth for one and a full sized electronic flushing toilet for two.

Make sure the wife is happy and you will be a whole lot happier.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

No doubt. We went looking at some candidates this weekend over at Shilshole and the wife fell in love with a Catalina 380, tall rig with the fin keel. It's a really sweet and clean boat. She likes it better than the Nordic/Perry 44 pilothouse boat in LaConner. It actually feels bigger inside and has a much nicer layout. What interests me is the fact that it's a Morgan 381 hull and is built heavier and stronger than the average production Benehuntalina boat. It weighs in at 19,500 which qualifies it as a medium displacement boat and it uses stringers as well as the liner. From what I've read, it's a nice solid boat.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

CHarlie,

Lived on one and cruised on one (Catalina 380). Let me know if you have questions. 

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

mstern said:


> I thought a Catalina 22 would be great. However, the Admiral, after spending the summer on one, decreed the Catalina 22 unacceptable: the head had no privacy, and she wanted a door, not a curtain, between her and the world while enthroned. This lead to more in-depth research of other options. Luckily, a boat did exist with the features we both wanted: the Oday 23. The point here is not that my wife is a privacy freak, but that we never would have known how important that feature was to her without first experiencing sailing on that and other boats so we could compare and contrast.


Buying boat now would be a stupid move and I thank you all for talking me out of this. I will be joining club soon: I got here two recommendations that I would like to follow on and choose.
As far as the Admiral comfort - I admit that this is THE most important thing in choosing the boat and we have to rent a few before making a decision. Thank you all for so much information and good advices.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Renting is a great idea in your local waters, and after a couple of years of crewing and renting, you can charter something 35 feet or so in the B.V.I.s

This will predispose the missus to the cruising life.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

CD, they seem to be well put together boats. Did ya cruise yours in weather? If so, how'd she handle? Did ya fly a chute? What kind of speed did ya see at say 5, 10, 15 and 20 knots? How'd she point? Any issues with keeping the ultra leather clean? Any things to watch for that's particular to the C-380?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

CHarlie,

I will drop you a PM.

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Signed up for ASA 101 & 103. Took the first lesson - 9 more to go...


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

That's a lot of lessons. What's wrong with hanging out landside? There's lots of stuff to see, plus you can watch cable tv. Can't do that on no boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailhog said:


> That's a lot of lessons. What's wrong with hanging out landside? There's lots of stuff to see, plus you can watch cable tv. Can't do that on no boat.


If you get a really long cable... Also, you can put a dish on your boom...


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Drylander said:


> If you get a really long cable... Also, you can put a dish on your boom...


This is preposterous. The cable is going to really slow you down and possibly get caught in the prop and/or rudder. Then there's the possibility it could get tangled up around an island and break, leaving you without any picture
at all. Your suggestion of putting on a satellite dish makes far more sense. But, as we all know, you aren't going to be getting the programming selection that we've all come to expect. I'm watching Bonanza right now, and the Beverly Hillbillies is on after that. Your satellite provider is giving you reruns of Charles in Charge. Not that I don't like Charles in Charge. I just think that Full House is better. You're new to sailing, aren't you?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailhog said:


> This is preposterous. The cable is going to really slow you down and possibly get caught in the prop and/or rudder. Then there's the possibility it could get tangled up around an island and break, leaving you without any picture
> at all. Your suggestion of putting on a satellite dish makes far more sense. But, as we all know, you aren't going to be getting the programming selection that we've all come to expect. I'm watching Bonanza right now, and the Beverly Hillbillies is on after that. Your satellite provider is giving you reruns of Charles in Charge. Not that I don't like Charles in Charge. I just think that Full House is better. You're new to sailing, aren't you?


Bev. Hillbillies is my alltime fav. Although being left without TV is not the worst thing as far as I am concerned: cut my broadband - then you'll hurt me for real!
Yep, I am new to sailing, but plan to change that...


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Drylander,
I would urge you to get an older Catalina over an older Hunter, and there are specific reasons for this. I went through the same search process that you're probably going through now, and I slowly came to realize that the C30 was what I needed. I have a wife and two kids as well, and this boat is perfect for us. They're definitely within your budget, but you need to be sure you get a good one. There are lots of dogs out there. PM me if you want to discuss. And good luck.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailhog said:


> Drylander,
> I would urge you to get an older Catalina over an older Hunter, and there are specific reasons for this. I went through the same search process that you're probably going through now, and I slowly came to realize that the C30 was what I needed. I have a wife and two kids as well, and this boat is perfect for us. They're definitely within your budget, but you need to be sure you get a good one. There are lots of dogs out there. PM me if you want to discuss. And good luck.


Thanks! I decided to postpone the purchase: I joined the club and will rent boats for awhile. I'll buy a boat next season - I'll hold you to your offer to discuss it then.


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