# Compass 28



## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Folks here have any opinions on the Compass 28??

(In general - not this specific one!)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

She looks somewhat reminiscent of the oft-recommended Alberg 30. Looks to be a sea-kindly boat, the cockpit is smaller than the A30 so theoretically you'll have a bit more space below.

She'll probably have all the typical issues of a full keel cruiser, notably the difficulty of controlling the boat in close quarters, esp in reverse....

A very different beast from dear old Hartley....


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Faster said:


> She looks somewhat reminiscent of the oft-recommended Alberg 30. Looks to be a sea-kindly boat, the cockpit is smaller than the A30 so theoretically you'll have a bit more space below.
> 
> She'll probably have all the typical issues of a full keel cruiser, notably the difficulty of controlling the boat in close quarters, esp in reverse....
> 
> A very different beast from dear old Hartley....


Hmm... Thanks, Ron. 

I found this Alberg 30  and it's in the right price range, although this specimen doesn't look too great.

I'll keep looking. I'd love to find a traditional (ie wood!) cutter somewhere in the 25'-30' range for sale here in Oz that was designed and built by someone who knew what he was doing.

I know they exist - I missed getting an old 6-metre years back (before I got married) because it seemed too much trouble at the time - but then, boats always are!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Why do you want a wooden boat...Have you decided to give up sailing and go into boat maintenance as a hobby???


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Why do you want a wooden boat...Have you decided to give up sailing and go into boat maintenance as a hobby???


Good point - and the main reason I didn't get the 6-metre at the time - but I push that nasty reality to the back of my mind as often as possible... 

The Compass 28 & Alberg 30 are GRP but a "not-modern" (using the term extremely loosely) supposedly sea-kindly design - but I know nothing about them or their true ability... hence the post.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

I think you may find that it is actually a Herreshoff H28. I think it is actually 29'.5.
Compass Yachts built hundreds up till 1984.
I have had a Compass boat and they were strongly built.
They the H28 have a reputation as sea kindly capable of offshore, a bit slow and tend to make more leeway with the less draft. I know of someone who did a round the world solo in one.
I very much doubt that Compass were building to 28' in the 80s so this is probably it.
You will find useful general info on Compass Yachts


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

chris_gee said:


> I think you may find that it is actually a Herreshoff H28. I think it is actually 29'.5.
> Compass Yachts built hundreds up till 1984.
> I have had a Compass boat and they were strongly built.
> They the H28 have a reputation as sea kindly capable of offshore, a bit slow and tend to make more leeway with the less draft. I know of someone who did a round the world solo in one.
> ...


Thanks, Chris! Doesn't seem to be the same boat though - although the lines are much the same, on the one I was thinking of, the rudder doesn't hang off the stern and that would require a pretty radical departure from the H28 design.

There's a few better photos here:
Boats for Sale - Yachts for Sale - Used & New Boats @ The Yacht Hub

Perhaps there's a couple of variants... Interesting.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Ok thats odd maybe there were two compass yachts or maybe they tarted it up towards the end changing the rudder as it is still full keeled. I am sure the H28 association would be able to assist you. They have a loyal following and it is a respected boat for it's style. That is it won't win around the buoys but will take you anywhere safely.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Hartley18,

below are the main details from _The Observers Book of Sailing Craft_ (1979 edition) on the Compass 28:

_LOA 8.58m (28ft 2")
Beam 2.48m (8ft 2")
Draft 1.29m (4ft 3")

The Compass 28 is a proven, all purpose design - large enough for comfortable ocean cruising and small enough for family day sailing, easy to handle.... Nearly 400 of these yachts can be found throughout Australia and the South Pacific....Produced by Compass yachts. _

Reading the H28 writeup it sounds like a totally different yacht
_LOA 8.8m (29ft)
Beam 2.79m (9ft 2")
Draft 1.2m (4ft)_

Just to confuse the issue there is also a Compass 29 which is a stretched version of the Compass 28.
_LOA 8.77m (28ft 10")
Beam 2.77m (9ft 2")
Draft 1.29m (4ft 3")_

From memory the (Australian) Cruising Helmsmen had a few articles of a couple that sailed from SA to WA then to South Africa in either a Compass 28 or 29. I'll have a dig around & see if I can find the article.

Ilenart


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Evidently there were two Compass yacht companies, one in Australia and one in NZ which worked in collaboration. Of the two boats the 29 sounds closer to the H28 given that there were thousands built by many companies most with tweaks to the design. The foot difference in beam of the Compass 28 seems a major difference though.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> Hartley18,
> 
> below are the main details from _The Observers Book of Sailing Craft_ (1979 edition) on the Compass 28:


Thanks, Ilenart - I'll see if I can track down a copy. Sounds like a very interesting read!


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Hartley18 said:


> Thanks, Ilenart - I'll see if I can track down a copy. Sounds like a very interesting read!


Very handy book. There's one selling on ebay at the moment

1979 OBSERVER'S BOOK OF SAILING CRAFT OF AUSTRALIA & NZ - eBay Sailing, Yachting, Sports, Recreation, Non-Fiction, Books. (end time 18-May-08 14:52:43 AEST)


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> Very handy book. There's one selling on ebay at the moment
> 
> 1979 OBSERVER'S BOOK OF SAILING CRAFT OF AUSTRALIA & NZ - eBay Sailing, Yachting, Sports, Recreation, Non-Fiction, Books. (end time 18-May-08 14:52:43 AEST)


Ilenart, thanks for the tip. In case you were wondering - I bought it! 

It's not much more than a pocketbook, but it looks interesting and didn't cost much. Some fireside reading for the next few nights, dreaming of all the bigger yachts I could have...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cameron,
H28 and C28 totally different boats albeit based on the same design. To make it even more confusing there was both an Australian and a New Zealand Compass Yachts.

C28 began life as the Northerner 28 designed by (I think) a fellow by the name of Rob Lees and they were built apparently by John Duncanson of Duncanson Yachts fame. Fabulous little boats, I know, I owned one for donkey's years and spent many a weekend plus the occasional longer cruise on her. Wee bit cramped but I rebuilt the interior to suit myself and was as happy as I could be given that she was not the Tardis.

Duncanson and the designer apparently fell out and Compass Yachts came into being to build the C28 while Duncanson went on to built a slightly longer version known as the Duncanson 29. H28 is in the same class but heavier and more expensive, there is also the Clansman 30 which is very similar. 

Positives were ease of handling under sail, a reasonably comfortable interior and nice cockpit big enough for lounging, indeed I often slept out there under the stars. Poor stowage space made up for to some extent by under cockpit quarter berth that I never slept in and the Volvo donk ran on the smell of an oily rag.

Negatives were limited space, lack of tankage (both fuel and water), not a whole lot of storage space and absolutely appalling behaviour in reverse under power. Overloaded for a cruise they have a tendency to squat down at the stern but that's no big deal really.

Mine had two setter berths rather than the dinette and I found this to be a far preferable arrangement. She also had an enclosed head with shower stall formed by closing off the space between the forward cabin and the saloon.

Good sea boats, mine won it's class in the Sydney - Montague Island race in the early seventies although I never raced her myself. 

Mine has since cruised the NSW and QLD coasts , is now up in Moreton Bay and still going strong although that is more to the credit of the folk I sold her to than me.

Depending on what you want to use the thing for they, and their cousins are highly recommended but if you want something for longish term cruising my feeling is they are a bit cramped inside.

Any questions, let me know. Happy to answer any and all.


ps - the C29 was a slightly larger version that Compass hoped would extend the life of the design but the word is that they were nowhere near the same build quality and suffered badly from the dreaded pox. That is what I have been told, it is not gospel however.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks, TD.  

Duncanson... That makes sense. All his boats were pretty much the same - good looking sea boats with no storage space!  

I'm glad to hear you had a good time on one and that they're not particualrly slow. Anything practical for sailing around Melbourne needs to be able to handle short chop and lousy weather, so if it'll do the Montague Island race, that's the kind of thing I'm after.

Lack of reverse can be dealt with, but the lack of storage might annoy the First Mate. We're hiring a Catalina 28 over the Queen's Birthday long weekend (a lot more space and in a higher $$$ bracket) so I'll see how she copes on that before deciding on the next move.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Hartley18 said:


> Ilenart, thanks for the tip. In case you were wondering - I bought it!
> 
> It's not much more than a pocketbook, but it looks interesting and didn't cost much. Some fireside reading for the next few nights, dreaming of all the bigger yachts I could have...


No worries, I've had mine for years, which I also picked up 2nd hand.

It's funny but I just realised it does'nt include Hartley 18's  Ah well.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> No worries, I've had mine for years, which I also picked up 2nd hand.
> 
> It's funny but I just realised it does'nt include Hartley 18's  Ah well.


It's got the TS16's in there though, so that's okay.. 

Although it's a pity that, like some sales brochure, it only lists boats good points - not the bad ones - it even mentions Impulse dinghies! No international listing of boats I've ever seen before includes Impulse dinghies... so it must be a pretty comprehensive book!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> Thanks, TD.
> 
> Duncanson... That makes sense. All his boats were pretty much the same - good looking sea boats with no storage space!
> 
> ...


Well all you need to do is convince your better half that you do need the storage space and buy yourself a Catalina. 

OTOH I know where you can pick up a good steel Van De Stadt 34 with lost of stowage space and less money than a Catalina.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

tdw said:


> Well all you need to do is convince your better half that you do need the storage space and buy yourself a Catalina.
> 
> OTOH I know where you can pick up a good steel Van De Stadt 34 with lost of stowage space and less money than a Catalina.


Thanks, TD - believe me, I can't afford a Catalina, but don't get your hopes up just yet. 

Even if she-who-must-be-obeyed says yes, living in congested Smellbourne, it's gonna take 2 years for me to find a place to park it - and methinks you don't want to wait that long!! 

...but I've already applied for a mooring.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> No worries, I've had mine for years, which I also picked up 2nd hand.
> 
> It's funny but I just realised it does'nt include Hartley 18's  Ah well.


Finally got to reading it last night and, although the focus is on the TS16's (there are more of them in both countries), yes, the 18's get a tiny mention along with a nice write-up of the impact his radical design has had:

"The boom in trailer yachts, brought on partly by an acute shortage of moorings and marine berths, started with the most famous of all New Zealand's do-it-youseld designers, Richard Hartley, whose ..16 ft, ..*18ft* and ..21ft trailer yachts featring hard-chine construction, and aimed directly at the home boatbuilder, still sell in significant numbers despite having been long out-dated by other stock fibreglass designs.

Hartley, the mystery man of New Zealand design (he refuses to be photographed or to appear in public), has put more people on the water in trailer yachts than any other Kiwi designer, building a world-wide market for his plans in the process."​pg 194-195

I think that speaks volumes for both the design and the designer. 

One design that is notable by it's total absence from the book anything at all from the stable of Van De Stadt.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> I think that speaks volumes for both the design and the designer.
> 
> One design that is notable by it's total absence from the book anything at all from the stable of Van De Stadt.


I could check it out myself but I'm being lazy....is he the same Harltey who designed all those ferro cement things ?

VDS - not surprising as to my knowledge no-one has ever built a production VDS in Oz or NZ and if they had it would have been known by the builders name I'd think. Virtually all the Van de Stadts in Oz were either one offs, backyard built or imported.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

tdw said:


> I could check it out myself but I'm being lazy....is he the same Harltey who designed all those ferro cement things ?


Yes.. 

That - and the crappiest stinkpots I've seen in my life - is probably why he didn't want to show his face in public! ..but the TS's were an amazing success. 



tdw said:


> VDS - not surprising as to my knowledge no-one has ever built a production VDS in Oz or NZ and if they had it would have been known by the builders name I'd think. Virtually all the Van de Stadts in Oz were either one offs, backyard built or imported.


Good point. I failed to notice that the book lists only the 260-odd designs *built* here.

I'd just assumed previously that the Catalinas and Cals and other US-designed boats were all fully-imported (I mean with so many award-winning designers in AU/NZ, why would we need to import designs?) and had not realised before that many were actually being built here a while back...


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.


Thanks.. I'll have a look.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Ilenart said:


> One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.


Minor hijack but I figure the thread has drifted from C28s anyway.

Ilenart, what do you think of your Roberts ? I confess I am not a fan of the guy but I'm interested as I hear both good and bad about his designs.

Admittedly, like Van de Stadt, there are just so many Roberts designs out there that there are bound to be both successful and not.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Mr Wombat,

I think the designs are ok. Nothing flash and I think elsewhere on this site it has been commented that they are a bit out of date (I remember reading something that Jeff_H once said about the Roberts designs along this line). They are good seaworthy designs, however there are better designs out there (Van de Stradt comes to mind).

The other negative is build quality. A lot of Roberts designs are home built and the quality runs from very good to bloody awful. You really need to spend a lot of time checking out the boat plus a good surveyor is a must. I'm lucky that my boat was professionally built.

Now the positives. The main one (especially in Australia) is value for money. These boats are cheap so a good one is going to be a lot cheaper to purchase than a equivalent name brand. For me that meant being able to get a decent sized boat without having to mortgage everything.

I also recently prepared a summary of all the yachts participating in Sail Indonesia, as I thought this would give me a good idea of what people are sailing offshore around Oz. Turns out the most popular design are Roberts; mainly Roberts 434, Offshore 44 and Mauritius 44. (next most popular were Halberg Rassys and Adams).

On my particular design (Roberts 45 Classic) I am very happy. I wanted a heavy boat that is well behaved in rough conditions, something we get plently of here along the West Australia coast. I also wanted a boat that could comfortably fit five persons (2 adults & 3 kids). Have also been surprised at how well the boat sails, however that is partly due to the sail size (1,011 sq ft). The fact that it is a ketch rig means the large sails are more managable, an issue for me as I do not want to scare the family. In WA I have seen a lot of skippers scare their wives / families in rough weather to the point where the skipper sails solo and / or the boat is sold. My boat is very well behaved in rough weather, in fact the biggest issue last time in rough weather was that everyone in the family was asleep and I was looking after the boat by myself. 

The negatives on my boat is going in reverse (she is a full keel with a cutaway forefoot, so I should'nt really complain) and fixing all the leaks!  Still she is 28 years old so I should'nt really complain, plus I'm getting ontop of this.

My boat also has an issue with poor use of space, however this is mainly due to the design of the pilothouse. About 15 years ago a previous owner built a pilothouse over the centre cockpit. I am seriously considering converting the pilothouse into a doghouse and fixing the poor use of space issues. When I firm up my plans more I'll post some details on the Designs thread for people's comments.

Here is a link to page that shows my particular design. My boat has the bow from the schooner, the underbody design of the sloop and the inside layout of the "Roberts 45 - centre cockpit" which is shown on another page.

Roberts Classic 45

Also below is a picture taken last year over at Rotto.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info, Ilenart. Interesting reading and a nice part of the world.. (nice boat too!)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Ilenart,

Firstly my apologies for not responding to your post but I've only just seen it. (Monday Morning).

Thanks for the info and for your honest assessment. While as I said, I'm not a Roberts fan I do know plenty of people who own them and his Spray design in nothing short of ubiquitous. Many people think of them as utter dogs yet I had drinks with a chap a month or so back who is half way through a circumnavigation and had no real complaints.

Having owned a C28 I know what you mean about reversing a full keeler. Raven is fin and you can park her like a car. When we move on to fin and skeg I am going to miss that attribute although I'm hopeful the fin and skeg will track a little better and that should make up for the reversing woes.

Looks like a nice boat though. Different requirements to ours of course. We don't have kids so our needs down below are very different. Indeed the new boat we are negotiating is at 42' probably bigger than we need or want but she makes up for it in other ways. I doubt she would suit a family but for two old farts like us she is pretty damn good. I must say however that in terms of useable space the 42'er is a gem.

This is the interior plan from the original plans. Ours is slightly different but close enough for jazz. Stowage capacity is immense. Indeed it wasn't until we had her out of the water for survey that we found the locker under the v-berth stowage that houses the hot water heater.

I'll post proper pics of her one day but not until my name is on the papers.










Rottnest looks nice. Somehow I doubt I'll ever get over there. Our plans do include the Kimberley Coast but if we then proceed south it really means crossing the Bight to get home and that does not appeal. OTOH other than those bloody sandflies I really do like WA south of Fremantle.

Where do keep your old girl ? Freo I presume or are you up the river ?

BTW, I presume when you say convert to a Doghouse that you mean so the PH becomes more of a hard dodger. From my experience that would be a good move. Unless you are seriously into cold climate cruising the PH is just too enclosing while the DH is a nice compromise. We have to rebuild the dodger on the new boat and have still not absolutely decided on soft or hard although soft has the inside running at the moment.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

TD, without meaning to break your chain of thought.. 



tdw said:


> .....
> Having owned a C28 I know what you mean about reversing a full keeler. Raven is fin and you can park her like a car. When we move on to fin and skeg I am going to miss that attribute although I'm hopeful the fin and skeg will track a little better and that should make up for the reversing woes.


Our Hartley is a pig to manouever going astern, to which I've always blamed the outboard, but I'm starting to think that the substantial full-length "keel" could be at least partly to blame.

Is there much difference in reversing manouverability between a full-keeler and a cutaway-forefoot? Or is reversing always an issue until you get to a fin??

.. and I'd love to know if a winged keel makes any difference to docking ability, but I guess I'll find out for myself in a couple of weeks.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

TD,

agree with your comments on the Spray design. The word "tub" comes to mind. There are three or four at my club and I have never seen any of them move. Boat's at FSC, too big to get under the bridges. The plan of you new boat looks good, like you said plenty of storage. I was recently looking at a plan of my boat that specified some storage behind a seat that I was not aware of. Pulled the cushion away and sure enough some extra storage. This is after almost two years of owning the boat  


Hartley18, my boat has a cutaway forefoot and reversing is still a chore. My guess is that a full length keel would be worse, a fin and skeg would be better and a fin and spade rudder would be the most manoverable. Still I'm mostly going forward so it's not a big issue  

Would'nt have a clue about a winged keel.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

fancy that, post number 100


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ilenart said:


> fancy that, post number 100


Well done!! 

I've learnt at bit from you already and you obviously have a lot to add to this forum - keep up the good work!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> TD, without meaning to break your chain of thought..
> 
> Our Hartley is a pig to manouever going astern, to which I've always blamed the outboard, but I'm starting to think that the substantial full-length "keel" could be at least partly to blame.
> 
> ...


Cameron,
Better minds than mine could give you a more technically correct answer but as far as I'm aware it's all to do with waterflow over the rudder. A fin with no skeg has clear flow from prop to rudder so they will steer in reverse. Full keel has seriously disturbed flow so will be a pig, fin and skeg neither fish nor fowl. I've found that fin and skeg will steer in reverse if you are brave, meaning if you give it a bit of stick they will behave but I do add that it takes a brave soul to reverse a 40'er into a confined space at 2000rpm.  I am as bold as a lion in the middle of a calm bay practicing my reversing but seem to be more small rodentish when surrounded by a few hundred thousand dollars worth of other people's plastic.


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