# Sailing harnesses



## patrickbryant (Nov 28, 2010)

Am I missing something, or are the sailing harnesses intended to keep you on board your boat idiotic?

All the harnesses I've seen are missing either leg straps or shoulder straps. I wonder how many people who wear them have ever actually been suspended in the air in one - and overcome the pain-induced instinct to immediately try to escape from it?

It appears to me that the ones without leg straps would either cause you to fall out of the harness, or worse, to ride up to your diaphragm and smother you, boa constrictor style. At best, a really violent shaking would leave you with a ruptured spleen. I had one sales guy explain to me that: "there are metal loops that you are supposed to connect to your belt." Wow, imagine hanging from a line with that arrangement -- I wonder if anyone's ever gotten a fatal wedgie!

The ones without shoulder straps will certainly dump you out if you're flipped inverted (a likely occurrence if you trip backward over those useless knee-high life lines on most boats).

I read the report on the Fastnet 1979 race, and I wasn't surprised to read that they found empty "safety" harnesses slapping against the sides of boats.

Finally, there's the issue of releasing yourself. None of the designs make that look very easy. And there are times when I can imagine needing to do that quickly - particularly if I have gotten myself entangled in a line under tension.

So here's what I've done: I took my skydiving harness that has brought me to a near stop 500 times from a 120 MPH vertical descent (I probably won't fall any faster than _that_ from my boat), I attached my tether to the "three ring release system" on the harness so all I have to do is pull one handle and I'm freed from the tether, and the webbing crossing my back is covered to prevent it from hanging up on the shrouds as I pass by them. The harness is padded and I can hang comfortably from it for several minutes at a time (which I've done 500 times already). The FAA inspected and approved the design to withstand many Gs of a 200 pound subject's deceleration (I don't see any inspection labels on the sailing harnesses...). The whole thing cost less than the dumb stuff they sell at the marine stores.

But again, am I missing something? Please don't tell me: "we've always done it that way," because people have been falling overboard and drowning for a long time, and I don't see anything good about that.


----------



## CapTim (Aug 18, 2009)

A couple of the reasons I like my dumb rig are the inflatable pfd that's built in, and it's ease in adjusting it to fit over whatever I'm wearing at the time.

If yours does both of those, I'd be interested in learning more about what you've got going there. I assume it's all built to handle saltwater as well as it handles air?

Also, I'm not sure there are many who'd say they have the best possible safety system. I think most folks will readily admit that once you go overboard, you are fighting from behind.


----------



## bacampbe (Mar 17, 2009)

The normal harness is really designed to keep you from falling off a mostly upright boat. For example, loosing your balance, getting washed off by a wave, knocked off by the boom, etc. While you certainly could end up suspended by it, that's a lot less likely than the other scenarios. Or at least, suspended by it for any length of time while not unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. Hitting the end of your tether over empty space is a common use case for a skydiving harness, and maybe a climbing harness, but less so for a sailing harness.

You could certainly design one that was safer for such situations--but could you do it and still be comfortable for normal moving around the boat? If not, then most people simply aren't going to wear it, making it the least safe option of all.

So the question is, how much does your skydiving rig get in the way when you're _not_ falling off the boat?


----------



## celenoglu (Dec 13, 2008)

These are made to keep you on board. The harness should keep you on board if you loose your balance. If you leave the boat, you should get rid of it because being suspended will not help you. You will not be able to climb back.


----------



## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Offshore racing rules require crotch straps.

Read the report of the sinking of the Ouzo. Marine Accident Investigation: Ouzo

It recommends crotch straps.

BTW - the whole report should be required reading.


----------



## patrickbryant (Nov 28, 2010)

I realize that the purpose of a harness is to keep a person on the boat. But if it's design will cause severe injury or death when it does that job, then its worse than useless. With some of the harnesses I've seen, I might as well tie a noose, put it around my neck, attach the other end to the boat, and say: "there, that will keep me on board."

My point is that the harness should support more than your entire weight - from any angle of suspension/deceleration - without dumping you out or seriously injuring you. You only have to fall a tiny distance to impart a 2G force on the harness and you. If you slide down the deck head first, you will slide right out of a harness that lacks shoulder straps. If you slide feet first, the absence of leg straps will either cause you to slide out, or smother you when the harness slides up your torso (my chest has a larger circumference than my gut - this may not apply to everyone). And if you do find yourself in the water while still attached to the boat, you need to have the option to quickly sever the connection between you and the boat - without fumbling around for connectors or a knife. And some of the connectors I've seen don't look like they will release at all under tension. How long can you survive body skiing along side your boat with your head under water? Do you really think you will find the connectors to release yourself in that amount of time? And if you believe your short tether won't allow you to be submerged - what about in a knock down or a capsize?

If you can't tolerate suspending your entire weight by the harness with your body in any possible attitude to gravity, then a real fall involving multiple Gs is going to leave you injured, disabled, or maybe even dead.

My parachute harness is 30 years old, has been in sea water conditions many times, and as yet shows no signs of corrosion. And I've yet to see a sailing harness that's padded and that won't chafe bare skin so it can be comfortably worn for many hours.

I wear a water ski vest type III PFD under the harness. When it's cold, I add a type III jacket on top of the harness. While an inflatable PFD that's integral to the harness is a really good idea, I won't wear an auto-inflatable type PFD because I have found myself under a capsized boat before, and had a PFD inflated then, I may have never gotten out from under it to right the boat (catamarans are only stable when capsized - a separate topic). An inflatable PFD that's integral to the harness would also prevent me from wearing anything over it. Never, ever, wear anything over an inflatable PFD!!! If it inflates - it will compress your chest and suffocate you. That scenario occurred to one sailor in the Fastnet race, who was able to struggle loose from the garment.

Finally, there's the issue of a person's center of gravity. A typical male's center of gravity is near his navel, and a typical female's is an inch or so lower near the points of the pelvis. If the tether is attached at the center of gravity, there is no "bias;" a person is as likely to hang head-down as feet-down. While that may be great for rock climbing, it's a really bad idea for a device that's meant to hang onto a possibly-unconscious person with water below them. A sharp snap of deceleration will also hyper-extend your neck and back, giving you a whiplash and lower back injury (if skydiving harnesses were designed that way, then skydiving would have never become a sport). I assume that if I'm being held to the boat by the tether for an extended time it's because I'm unconscious. Having my head in the water is a lot worse than having my feet in the water. So, the attachment point for the tether is at my shoulders. Granted, if I slip, that arrangement will plant my face on the deck - but I prefer some facial contusions to breathing water.


----------



## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

jackdale said:


> Offshore racing rules require crotch straps.
> 
> Read the report of the sinking of the Ouzo. Marine Accident Investigation: Ouzo
> 
> ...


Wow, although reading like this can be a bit dry, I have to say I was riveted and could not stop reading until I was finished with the report. Thanks for posting this!


----------



## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

I think the designers of most of these rigs are actually thinking more about keeping you "attached to the boat". The biggest fear when getting washed overboard isn't necessarily drowning, it's being "lost at sea". If you've ever been caught in a storm, inside even average storm swells, you know what I'm talking about. It takes only a split second for you to "disappear" assuming there's someone else on the boat to start with. There's a "Man Overboard" device on board to help in keeping you afloat, along with PFD's, throw rings, etc. The tether is just that...a tether. If you want to protect yourself from going overboard, safety netting is a better investment, along with an upgrade to your safety lines, etc. etc.


----------



## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Can a standard inflatable PFD with harness be retrofitted with a crotch strap? If so, has anyone here done it?


----------



## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Couple of personal observations. A lot of people wear their PFDs a little too loose, allowing for the possibility of them slipping out. The danger of slipping out is most acute when you are hauling the MOB back on board by grabbing the PFD or winching him in via his “D” rings. A cautionary note: if you have the PFD really tight, it is hard to breathe when it deploys. Try out your safety gear before you have to use it in an emergency situation!

You can make a crotch strap by sewing a loop into one end of a length of webbing. Cow hitch it through the middle where the neck straps are sewn into the waist strap of the PFD. On the other end tie a carabineer or spring loaded snap hook. I use a water knot. Clip it into both “D” rings. Adjust the knot for comfort. I have also used a set up that has leg loops/straps. Or, you can go in the other direction and buy a Spinlok vest that already has that feature. I’m not sure you have to go the full parachute harness as the loads (especially shock) are a lot less when you transfer from crewmember to flotsam. The important thing is to be comfortable with your safety gear and use it.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

patrickbryant said:


> Am I missing something, or are the sailing harnesses intended to keep you on board your boat idiotic?
> 
> All the harnesses I've seen are missing either leg straps or shoulder straps. I wonder how many people who wear them have ever actually been suspended in the air in one - and overcome the pain-induced instinct to immediately try to escape from it?
> 
> ...


Good one, Patrickbryant.

I have been thinking using a separate harness instead of the one built-in from the life vest. I have all the intention to use a helmet also. I will look like a nerve, but so what.


----------



## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I've never considered a parachutist's harness. We use rock climber's harnesses to teather on board, when heading up to the bow, for some of the same reasons as you originally posted. In addition, we were surprised that they were less expensive than the less suitable marine harnesses we were looking at. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

zz4gta said:


> Can a standard inflatable PFD with harness be retrofitted with a crotch strap? If so, has anyone here done it?


Sorry, I value my, um.... Clearly, most of the folks who suggest that have never been rock climbing. Unless the strap is secure to one thigh a ruptured testicle is not unheard of. No joking.

Climbers used chest-only harness for years, back in the golden age of hemp and hob nails. Not a good solution, and as ropes became strong enough to actually hold falls, seat harnesses became common. However, a fit person will NEVER fall out of a properly fitted chest harness.
* It must be worn high, under the arms. If it is loose, at or just above the waist, yes, strangulation is quite probable. For this reason I am NOT a fan of combined PFD/harness systems. They invariably are too low.
* It must be re-adjusted each time different clothing is worn. A climber considers this normal, but sailors do not. I have one harness for summer (fixed, no adjustment) and an adjustable harness for winter.

But, for folks who can't fit a chest harness properly, an nut crusher--I mean crotch strap--sounds like a solution. Children are inconvenient anyway.


----------



## MikeWhy (Apr 22, 2011)

PFD crotch straps are intended to keep an ill fitting or maladjusted vest from riding up on an unconscious or deeply hypothermic swimmer. The rationale was given in the addenda link on the reports page. Specifically, the waist strap can be too loose, or will become loose when the wet clothing underneath compresses after immersion, allowing the vest to ride up and reduce the height of the swimmer's air passage. Despite the dry language, it's a pretty grotty read all the way through. 

I keep the handheld VHF clipped on my belt when I'm on deck alone at night.


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

MikeWhy said:


> PFD crotch straps are intended to keep an ill fitting or maladjusted vest from riding up on an unconscious or deeply hypothermic swimmer. The rationale was given in the addenda link on the reports page. Specifically, the waist strap can be too loose, or will become loose when the wet clothing underneath compresses after immersion, allowing the vest to ride up and reduce the height of the swimmer's air passage. Despite the dry language, it's a pretty grotty read all the way through.


A PFD and a harness are not at all the same thing. A PFD is unlikely to see an upward strain on the strap of even body weight. I can see the reasoning.

It's not that I am anti-strap. I see their reasoning. But I am concerned when I see ill-fitting harnesses and I hope that folks don't think a strap is a substitute for good fit. It bothers me that so many products are DESIGNED to fit low on the chest, brag that they will withstand a 6,000-pound impact, but don't point out that any significant impact low on the rib cage can be fatal.

The other problem is this; dual purpose products (harness/PFD) need to use the same body band to support the vest AND to serve as a harness, and that simply is not possible. I'm so glad they aren't in the climbing gear business.


----------



## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Once in the water, you can adjust the straps and trust me, if it is a little loose, you won’t fall out of it while floating/treading water. Where you can fall out is while being pulled aboard. Am I the only one with MOB experience here? Good call on the hand held. After talking to the skipper of Heat Wave, I never pass under the Golden Gate without a personal handheld in my jacket pocket.


----------



## snowdawg (Mar 15, 2009)

Coming at it from a different angle here. One thing I haven’t seen talked about here is tether length. We use two different systems in building construct. One is a fall restraint and the other is fall arrest. A fall restraint system with an adjustable lanyard allows the worker to reach the edge of an unprotected side of a building but not fall over. If the worker was to trip or have a seizure the restraint would hold him from the edge.
A Fall Arrest system is used when the work must work at the edge or beyond (Scaffolds and platforms) 
I would think on a boat if you a using a tether you should be using the fall restraint method. “STAY ON THE BOAT!!!” This would mean you may have to adjust you tether for different positions to perform different functions but at no time should your tether allow fall over the edge. If your tether allows you to make it over the side it’s not working and it doesn’t matter what harness your using you will be out of it soon. 

Rule for fall arrest state that you should only fall a max of 3 ft free fall and you must have a shock absorbing lanyard on. Anything more than that and you are looking at injuries.


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

GeorgeB said:


> Once in the water, you can adjust the straps and trust me, if it is a little loose, you won't fall out of it while floating/treading water. Where you can fall out is while being pulled aboard. Am I the only one with MOB experience here? Good call on the hand held. After talking to the skipper of Heat Wave, I never pass under the Golden Gate without a personal handheld in my jacket pocket.


The comical thing, when swimmers are lifted from the water with a harness or sling, is that they always reach over their heads and grab the rope. THAT is why the harness can come off. There is no purpose in holding the rope. I'm forever pointing out to new climbers that gripping the rope is a hazard, for other reasons as well.

But even so, a properly fitted harness cannot go over the head. If so, it is too lose, unless the wearer is quite corpulent. With foul weather gear this we're all corpulent and fitting is more complicated and less comfortable; that is when a strap makes sense; depends on the sailor and the gear.

________________________________________​
Yes, I have been a part of MOB drills and have been hoisted from the water several different ways (harness and Lifesling). No problems, but I will tell you the life sling was more comfortable and the harness left a bruise. Yes, I have spent thousands of hours roped up in the mountains.


----------



## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

GeorgeB said:


> Once in the water, you can adjust the straps and trust me, if it is a little loose, you won't fall out of it while floating/treading water. Where you can fall out is while being pulled aboard. Am I the only one with MOB experience here? Good call on the hand held. After talking to the skipper of Heat Wave, I never pass under the Golden Gate without a personal handheld in my jacket pocket.


I just bought the Horizon HX851 VHF handheld that has built in GPS with DSC. If I go overboard I can activate DSC and it will automatically send emergency signal with Long and Lad. The unit displays long and lad so you can use it as a backup to GPS- if you have some paper charts. Cost was about $250. The unit floats, has a strobe light, it glows in the dark, and is small enough to fit in a pocket. This with a small PLB in the other pocket I might be in good shape if I go over the side.


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

patrickbryant said:


> My point is that the harness should support more than your entire weight - from any angle of suspension/deceleration - without dumping you out or seriously injuring you. You only have to fall a tiny distance to impart a 2G force on the harness and you.


A great goal, and it's good to rethink and redesign, especially if if makes a better product. It's a good discussion to have. The deceleration is an issue for the tether though, not the harness. We use one's that are designed to elongate under shock load that have a quick release shackle instead of a carabiner type release at the harness attachment rings.


----------



## patrickbryant (Nov 28, 2010)

*Chicago to Mackinac Race Fatalities - Unreleased Harnesses*

When I created this thread, I had not yet learned of the Chicago to Mackinac race accident (July 2011) where two crew members where found still attached to the capsized boat by their "safety" harnesses.

These harnesses need to have a release that can be operated: 1) while the tether is under tension (carabiners won't release under tension), 2) by operating a single-point system with either hand, 3) a release that is always in the same location on the harness with a distinctive shape so it can be found in absolute darkness, and 4) is operable after the user is stunned and disoriented from being flipped into cold water.

I hope someone takes the initiative to develop such a product. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use my goofy looking parachute harness with its three-ring release system that allows me to separate from the boat by pulling a single handle (with either hand). I've had three "reserve rides" with that harness, and I know the release works under tension (when I had less than 10 seconds to separate from my main parachute).

That boat capsized at around midnight. It was surely as dark as a cave under that boat. Reportedly the race safety rules require: "a knife with a blade that can be opened with one hand so a harness could be cut away using a single motion." _Are they completely out of their minds?!_ You get flipped into cold water in the dead of night by a gale force wind, drug by your tether under water at high speed and probably thrashed against various parts of the boat, _and you're supposed to find a knife_? Did I miss the part about needing superhuman skills to crew on that race?

In my parachute training, we practiced pulling the reserve handle, oh, maybe 50 times, before they'd let us get in the plane for our first jump (there were only "static line" jumps back then). Not because we planned on cutting away our main and using our reserve, but because we were DEAD if we needed that reserve and there was any uncertainty or hesitation. They called it "muscle memory," and the jumpmaster needed to be satisfied that we'd pull that handle instinctively. So how many sailors do you suppose would practice taking out a knife and cutting their safety harness... a sufficient number of times to make it instinctive? If they'd had some sort of sane release system, they could have practiced using it once or twice.


----------



## patrickbryant (Nov 28, 2010)

casey1999 said:


> I just bought the Horizon HX851 VHF handheld that has built in GPS with DSC. If I go overboard I can activate DSC and it will automatically send emergency signal with Long and Lad. The unit displays long and lad so you can use it as a backup to GPS- if you have some paper charts. Cost was about $250. The unit floats, has a strobe light, it glows in the dark, and is small enough to fit in a pocket. This with a small PLB in the other pocket I might be in good shape if I go over the side.


I have the same radio and I use it just as you describe when I sail single handed. Be sure to attach some kind of tether to keep it attached to your person. I don't trust the belt clip to keep it with me if I get tossed over the side. Yes, it has a little LED that flashes and a thin strip of glow-in-the-dark plastic; but if I'm in the water, I won't see that over a two inch chop. I tie a thin line to the base of the belt clip and tie a bowline at the other end that I loop my belt through. The tether needs to be long enough that the radio is usable while still attached to your belt. I also wear an ACR PLB in a fanny pack around my waist at my belt buckle. It's small and never gets in the way. I also have a strobe light on my harness. The S.F. Bay can be a very cold, dark and lonely place at night, which is when I often sail single handed. I enjoy the solitude.


----------



## patrickbryant (Nov 28, 2010)

pdqaltair said:


> The comical thing, when swimmers are lifted from the water with a harness or sling, is that they always reach over their heads and grab the rope. THAT is why the harness can come off.(...)


Yep. And if an average person is sliding feet first down the deck on their stomach, guess where their hands and arms are going to be... Above their head, as they try to grasp anything available to stop the slide. And then... slip... out of the harness they go. I was taught to try to roll on my back and use my feet to stop the slide, while keeping my arms firmly down at my sides so something (like a cleat) doesn't grab a rib. But "how to slide down a wet deck at 45 degrees of heel" doesn't seem to be in the standard training curriculum.


----------



## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

patrickbryant said:


> I have the same radio and I use it just as you describe when I sail single handed. Be sure to attach some kind of tether to keep it attached to your person. I don't trust the belt clip to keep it with me if I get tossed over the side. Yes, it has a little LED that flashes and a thin strip of glow-in-the-dark plastic; but if I'm in the water, I won't see that over a two inch chop. I tie a thin line to the base of the belt clip and tie a bowline at the other end that I loop my belt through. The tether needs to be long enough that the radio is usable while still attached to your belt. I also wear an ACR PLB in a fanny pack around my waist at my belt buckle. It's small and never gets in the way. I also have a strobe light on my harness. The S.F. Bay can be a very cold, dark and lonely place at night, which is when I often sail single handed. I enjoy the solitude.


Thanks for advice. I see where ACR now has the ResQLink- very small PLB. Fanny pack may work well- trying to figure out a way to carry this emergency gear. Good luck sailing and stay safe.
Aloha


----------

