# Inflatable PFDs -- Manual or Automatic?



## Capetinho (Sep 6, 2010)

Was wondering about the choice between automatic vs manually inflatable PFDs. I can see an advantage to the automatic ones; it's kinda hard to inflate something if you're unconscious in the water, but realistically, how does that happen? Is there any other advantage? Is it worth the extra price and the hassle of an unintended inflation? How often does THAT happen? Another thought: is there any reason to have a harness seperate from the PFD? Why not go with a combination PFD/harness?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

My thoughts..

I have a variety of PFDs . I like the thought of the auto-inflate. You never know what will put you in the water and in what shape you'll be to pull the tab. The disolving pill is tucked in pretty good so you'd really have to try to get it soaked. I have built in harnesses, it's one less thing to put on and adjust. 
I'd be more concerned with puncturing the vest in conditions rough enough to toss me around or over. 
I like the inflatables when it's really hot out..and I'm inland or near coastal. I'd probably put on a traditional vest further offshore/ with a seperate harness in rougher weather. I also like the type 3's they come in many sizes and have pockets! 

Keep in mind.. that the CG doesn't count the inflatable as one of the required carriage unless it's being worn. Don't know if that matters in Haiti. But, it's one reason, I have multiples.


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## Capetinho (Sep 6, 2010)

Thanks for your thoughts. Hadn't thought about the puncture factor. We sail a bit here in the Bay of Gonave, but it's on the lee-side of the island and both winds and waves are generally negliable. My main focus currently is crewing on OBP's during the bi-annual north-south migration and want to be fully equipped so I'm not dependant on whatever might be onboard.

Why one for off-shore and another for coastal? You think a built-in harness isn't sufficient for really bad weather?

And no -- there are no real rules in Haiti. Sorry if that sounds facetious; I've been here too long.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

"Why one for off-shore and another for coastal? You think a built-in harness isn't sufficient for really bad weather?"

Sorry, the inflatables have built in harnesses. The type 1 and types 2's don't, So I have a separate harness for those.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

If I were to get an inflatable vest. I'd want the auto-inflate version. Think about how much you'd enjoy jumping into the water and HAVING to blow up your lifevest manually while you tried to stay afloat, kicking and paddling with waves washing over you. It might be hard enough just to breathe. Having the auto feature would perhaps reduce that problem. You do hear about issues with getting the cartridges through airport security, but perhaps that is less of a problem than it was, with smartphone access to the relevant regulations available to those who need to show officials the real rules. All the same, my own PFD is not inflatable, and I wear a separate safety harness when it's needed. Bon vent!


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

We replaced our manual inflate (Meaning that you have to pull the tab to trigger the Co2, not that you have to blow them up with lung power) combination harness/PFDs with auto-inflate units. We had heard of the salt pill type going off in storage due to the pill dissolving in the high humidity environment of the Pacific Northwest so we chose the hydrostatic trigger type; more expensive, but much more comfortable


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## Capetinho (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi, Vega,

The hydrostatic triggers sound like a major improvement; I've heard tales of the pills dissolving too. Triggers are supposed to be good for five years and cost $80 to replace. Granted, my life's worth a bit more than that, but still...

What was your rationale in switching from manual to auto?


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

I must be honest here - I deeply distrust the inflatable PFDs and will not wear them, especially for offshore sailing. 

There are plenty of comfortable PFD styles using traditional reliable flotation.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

WDSchock said:


> I must be honest here - I deeply distrust the inflatable PFDs and will not wear them, especially for offshore sailing.
> 
> There are plenty of comfortable PFD styles using traditional reliable flotation.


Is your distrust based on intuitive fears, or actual experience? I've heard about them accidentally deploying, but have not heard any reports of auto-inflatables actually failing to go off. Can you post a link to some examples?

FWIW, I use the auto-inflate ones on my Catalina, but in very protected waters. I wear traditional PFD for the Trophy (because I ski with it) and Phantom (because it's a very wet ride that would likely dissolve the pill). I have used a traditional PFD on the Catalina when letting guests have the auto-inflate ones, but moving around the cockpit requires some close encounters with the split backstays, and a traditional PFD adds just enough bulk to get hung up on them.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

I actually have auto and manual (ie pull the cord) inflatable PFD's on my boat and my general rule is that the inexperienced crew wear the auto inflatables and the experienced crew (ie me) wear the manual inflatable PFD's. There have been plenty of cases of yachts capsizing (mainly due to losing their keels) and in those circumstances the last thing you would need would be to wear a auto inflatable PFD as this would prevent you from swimming out from under the capsized yacht.

However inexperienced crew are far more likely to fall or be knocked overboard, hence it makes sense for inexperienced crew to wear the auto inflatable PFD's.

I also find the inflatable PFD's far more comfortable to wear than the traditional "floatation" style PFD's. Hence everyone is also more likely to use them. All the one's I have also have the built in harness. 

Ilenart


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While I have an auto inflact Spinlock Deckvest (most comfortable I've worn and complete with knife, strobe and radio/PLB pocket), I've seen one that didn't fully inflate. Itbwas at the Newport/Bermuda race safety seminar a few years back. The instructor put his on to demonstrate and show the value of the thigh straps, etc. He manually pulled the cord and it did not fully inflate. He was surprised and fumbling for a moment, but it couldn't have been a better lesson, if he planned it. Naturally, he was using his own deck vest, as he planned to replace the CO2 and test the integrity of the bladder. Proved you must do that routinely.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

*We have 4 styles of PFD on board*

We have old (but inspected and approved) vest-style ones that I throw in the bottom of the dinghy when I'm going ashore. They are there to satisfy the law, and sometimes to be used as a cushion. I also tuck one under the bungies on my sit-on-top kayak. My mother wears one when she comes on the boat as she is a non-swimmer and feels more secure wearing one.
We have a couple of manual-inflate Mustangs. These were a gift. We keep them aboard as extras. They are light and comfortable to wear.
We bought a couple of auto-inflate Mustangs when we got the boat. These too are comfortable to wear. My wife and I used to wear them all the time (she still does, I wear a different style now). In the 4-years that we've owned these PFD's we have sailed through rain and been in very humid conditions. The triggers have not activated while we have been wearing the PFD's. Both of the PFD's have inflated while in storage.The cost to re-arm the PFD's is about $35.00 CDN each.
A couple of years ago my wife got me a hydrostatic mustang with a built-in harness. This is what I wear all the time now. It's a bit heavier than the auto-inflate model, but you soon get used to it. The built-in harness is great as I can quickly clip on to my jack-lines. This year I got some add-on crotch straps. I only wore them once. I forgot I had them until I started taking the boat apart for the season. Next year I intend to keep them attached (especially when I am single-handing).
I, and my wife, wear our PFD's every time we are under way - regardless of the conditions. I don't know if we would be so diligent wearing conventional PFD's or vests as I would expect them to be very hot and somewhat bulky.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I think you highlighted the single biggest benefit of inflatables: people are more willing to wear them.

We wear ours all the time on the Catalina. We also wear the conventional ones all the time on the Trophy and Phantom, but we're shirtless in bathing suits then, which helps mitigate the heat and bulk.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I think you highlighted the single biggest benefit of inflatables: people are more willing to wear them.
> 
> We wear ours all the time on the Catalina. We also wear the conventional ones all the time on the Trophy and Phantom, but we're shirtless in bathing suits then, which helps mitigate the heat and bulk.


Agreed, that's exactly why I like some of the type 3's ( ski and kayak vests). People seem much more willing to wear them. The best life jacket is the one you're willing to wear all the time. Even though they won't turn an unconscience victim face up..it's better than wearing nothing.


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I have an automatic vest and the only time it has inflated is one time when I fell in. By the way, it doesn't inflate violently as I had imagined. I got the one without the harness since the harness adds weight and when I don't need a harness (which is most of the time) I didn't want the extra weight.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Manual makes more sense to me.*

Yes, being clunked int he head is possible, but I think it's many times less likely than other problems:

a. They tell you not to inflate until you exit the plane. Obvious.
b. Inflated jackets were implicated (as I recall, and only a minor factor) in the resent Great Lakes accident. I can't imagine trying to exit a capsized boat in a jacket. Even getting through the lifelines would be terribly difficult. And yes, in really nasty weather even the folks below would typically wear them.

That said, I use harnesses and jacklines frequently--daily when cruising--and PFDs very seldom.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm not sure I understand the arguments about not being able to exit a capsized boat. It seems that's true of conventional PFDs as well as inflatables, and the answer is to take it off after the capsize if it presents an impediment to escaping. But I would think the plusses of having it on far outweigh the negatives.

Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but this argument about not being able to escape sounds eeriliy similar to the debunked myth about not wearing seat belts so you won't get trapped in a car.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think there is validity in the concern about having to swim DOWN to get out of a capsize situation (someone trapped below at the time of capsize, for example) I think the panic situation, being underwater fully clothed plus a standard or inflated PFD could make it difficult to shed... and if you try to take it with you for later on, you still have the same issue.

A relatively recent floatplane incident where several people died here has led to a recommendation that floatplane passengers wear PFDs... Doesn't make sense to me because now you have a much more confined area, limited egress (like a smallish companionway) and a lot of underwater obstacles on the way to the surface.

All that said, the rarity of such incidents probably renders that concern a tad moot ..

I do find the inflatables more comfortable.. mine is a manual-pull CO2 version. I have heard of failures to inflate that were traced to the fact that some manufactures don't fully seat the cartridge prior to sale..so the cartridge wasn't properly 'armed' when it came time to try it. Something to check when you buy one...

FWIW our son and daughter-in-law who race frequently on a hot-rod Melges 32 have returned to standard PFDs (compact, lighweight kayak styles) for reliability and peace of mind after using inflatables for a time.


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## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Counting Infatable vests as per requirement...*



Tempest said:


> Keep in mind.. that the CG doesn't count the inflatable as one of the required carriage unless it's being worn. Don't know if that matters in Haiti. But, it's one reason, I have multiples.


Not true. Don't confuse the different types of Inflatable life-jackets. 
Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide
Some can be counted even when "not being worn". It can be confusing.

My opinion is as as follows;
1. Life-jackets only work if you wear them.
2. You never plan to end up in the water, generally you are propelled by an external force and you bang off something on the way over.
3. In the first 3 seconds in the water you are thinking "what the fu$& happened", the next 3 "mommy!!!!!!". Its really nice if the jacket is inflating during that time.

My experience is; Had a fishing vessel (not mine) sink under me in the North Atlantic. 4 of us ended up in the water for 20mins. We all had life-jackets on.

Most Navies use automatic inflatable life-jackets when carrying out small boat ops. Don't try and invent the wheel. Buy the best automatic (prefer hydrostatic) life-jacket you can afford, with a harness if you are a blow-boater. Service/check in annually. Dump it when it starts to look past its sell by date.

Or then again, its your boat, you can tape a rubber duck to your head if that works for you.

Gerry


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

gtod25 said:


> Not true. Don't confuse the different types of Inflatable life-jackets.
> Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide
> Some can be counted even when "not being worn". It can be confusing.
> Gerry


I'm willing to be unconfused, but I didn't see anything on your link to convince me that my statement was not true.

Are you talking about the New Hybrids? that have both inherently bouyant material and an inflation tube?

Here's is the Coast Guard Aux. link:

USCGAUX: Life Jackets

Inflatable life Jackets
•U.S. Coast Guard-approved inflatable life jackets are authorized for use by persons 16 years of age and older (check the label for USCG approval).
•Inflatable life jackets require regular maintenance and attention to the condition of the inflator.
•They must be on the boater or person(s) on board the vessel in order to satisfy the legal requirements outline in the life jacket carriage requirement. Having an inflatable life jacket stored, or near by does not satisfy the carriage requirement.
•They must have a full cylinder and all status indicators on the inflator must be green or the device is not serviceable and does not satisfy the legal requirements for the wearable life jacket carriage requirement
•Inflatable life jackets are more comfortable, encouraging regular use. The best life jackets are ones the user will wear.

Have they made exceptions that I'm not aware of ?


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Gtod25

So, After a little research. It would appear that there is some conflict between what is stated on the CG Aux website..and what the CFR 33-179 states. 

Thanks for bringing this up. I have one of the original type 3 inflatables in my basement, and it only states: "not for commercial carriage". I'd like to obtain more clarification from the CG..on the discrepancy.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

We carry the more bulky offshore conventional PFDs, which are preferable to the inflatables if you have time to put them on when things go south. They are too uncomfortable to wear while sailing. However, we also have auto (hydrostatic) inflatable PFDs with harness, which we would wear if sailing in rough or otherwise threatening conditions. We recently switched to autoinflation when we replaced our older manual inflatable PFDs because of our concern that we might be incapacitated while going overboard. We chose the hydrostatic trigger over the pill to minimize the likelihood of an inadvertent inflation.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Capetinho said:


> Hi, Vega,
> 
> What was your rationale in switching from manual to auto?


We originally got the manual units because we were concerned about them inflating unintentionally. When the hydrostatic triggered pfds became available at an affordable price we upgraded. We got the Mustang sold by West Marine and we are glad we did - much more comfortable.

BTW, those Spinlock items are really terrific but not approved last I checked.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

vega1860 said:


> ....BTW, those Spinlock items are really terrific but not approved last I checked.


Correct, however, you only need an inexpensive approved pfd in a locker somewhere to make the count. I understand it is only a lack of willingness to comply with USCG testing and cost. Would be interested if anyone knows differently.


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## Nautichthys (May 2, 2010)

RhythmDoctor said:


> Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but this argument about not being able to escape sounds eeriliy similar to the debunked myth about not wearing seat belts so you won't get trapped in a car.


If we're talking about working on deck I would tend to agree. Primal fears (fire, water, being trapped) can sometimes significantly bias the perception of risk.

However, if we're talking about being in the cabin during a capsize, maybe not:

Transportation Safety Board of Canada - MARINE REPORTS - 2008 - M08M0062

The report doesn't conclude that wearing buoyant vests in a RHIB doghouse = bad, but the description of the incident under "Emergency Egress" is interesting.

The people who teach aircraft ditching survival have recognized this for a long time. My instructor cured me of the habit of wearing my floater coat during seaplane flights during the pool simulation. He had me inflate my vest then try to swim out of the back of the (simulated) overturned plane and through the cockpit exit. Not fun.

Since then I use a fully manual inflatable when I'm on small fast boats with closed cabins. In summer on deck on larger vessels I use an automatic inflatable. There is a significant chance the reason I'll be in the water is because I got hit by a broken piece of rigging and if my head was involved I'd like the vest to start thinking without me.

I've used inflatables at work for over 15 years (before they were approved) and so far I've seen one inflate spontaneously. It hadn't had the salt tablet replaced for over ten years so it was a case of "well, duh".

Someone mentioned the possibility of punctures. I've removed old inflatables from service by slicing them up. I can assure you the bladders (at least on the higher end models) are tougher than they look, and the covers are tougher still. Anything that can punch through one is going to cause damage to the person underneath. While I wouldn't argue that it's not possible I think your boat would need to be designed by HR Giger for it to be a concern.

When the weather gets colder and hypothermia becomes an increasing concern I will switch to a work vest, floater coat, or skiff suit depending on what I'm doing. If we're stopped on station I might use the inflatable over rain gear but if there's any chance I might have to survive more than a couple of minutes before someone hauls my soaking butt out of the drink I want a bit of thermal protection.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I'm not sure I understand the arguments about not being able to exit a capsized boat. It seems that's true of conventional PFDs as well as inflatables, and the answer is to take it off after the capsize if it presents an impediment to escaping. But I would think the plusses of having it on far outweigh the negatives.
> 
> Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but this argument about not being able to escape sounds eeriliy similar to the debunked myth about not wearing seat belts so you won't get trapped in a car.


Unfortunately there are plenty of cases of keels falling off yachts and people being drowned in the cabins. "S/ V Rising Farrster" is an example:

_The cause of the capsize was established to be that the fin keel separated from the hull unexpectedly. Within 15 to 20 seconds the yacht had capsized. The Coroner established that the yacht did not founder on a reef. Two of the crew died when they were unable to make their way out of the yacht's cabin._

Updated - Implications for Yacht Owners Arising from the NSW Coronial Inquest into the Deaths Aboard the Yacht Rising Farrster

Also note the example of "S/V Business Post Naiad" during the 1998 Sydney to Hobart when one of the crew drowned when the yacht inverted for 4-5 minutes and he was trapped by his safety harness. Not sure if he was wearing an inflatable life vest, however in those circumstances an auto inflatable vest would be more of a hinderence than a help.

Ilenart


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## Capetinho (Sep 6, 2010)

Thanks, everyone, for the input. Lots of good information here. I guess the answer basically is you pays yer money and you takes yer chances. Am I more likely to be knocked unconscious and go overboard (go auto) or be trapped below when the boat turns turtle (go manual).

For me, it looks like the Mustang hyrdostatic is the way to go. I found an MD3184 online for $200. The issue then becomes will I be able to find a rearming kit in five years when I'm 1,000 km west of the Cannibal Island Marina. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I'm not sure I understand the arguments about not being able to exit a capsized boat. It seems that's true of conventional PFDs as well as inflatables, and the answer is to take it off after the capsize if it presents an impediment to escaping. But I would think the plusses of having it on far outweigh the negatives.
> 
> Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but this argument about not being able to escape sounds eeriliy similar to the debunked myth about not wearing seat belts so you won't get trapped in a car.


Please reread the post. I didn't say not to wear the PFD. I said I want to be able to delay inflation until I have exited the boat. Just like on an airplane.

Can you imagine being tangled in the lines of an inverted boat, being able to remove your vest to get out, and then relocate it and put it on? I can't.

This is nothing like the seat belt myth. A man in our company is now a quad after being thrown from a truck, which then rolled over him.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Bold and broad statments are fun on the internet...*



gtod25 said:


> Not true. Don't confuse the different types of Inflatable life-jackets.
> Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide
> Some can be counted even when "not being worn". It can be confusing.
> 
> ...


... but that doesn't make them true.

I've been sailing large and small boats for 30 years, have seen dozens people go in the water (including me a few times) and none of them was propelled by a large object or was injured. Your experiences have been different perhaps, but on smaller boats it is either capsize or sudden motion.

I'm sure the real answer is that there are several right answers. I can accept that.
* I don't like inflatables in sailing dinghies, beach cats and tenders. They banged around and stepped on too much.
* Big boat with big gear that can hurt you. Auto inflate seems like a fair idea.
* Single-handing (or lone on deck) or at night, wear a harness on a jackline. No PFD will help much if the water's cold. 
* Unfortunatly, the inflatable/harness combinations I've seen fit poorly; the correct strap locations for a PFD and a harness are different. IF you fall hard on PFD harness with the chest strap towards the bottom of the ribs, you will break a rib. The strap should be up in the armpits, which is all wrong for a PFD. The fall testing in this regard has been pitiful.


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