# Fasten cleat to shroud - how?



## Outrageous (Aug 18, 2010)

I had a small halyard run up to the stbd spreader, for flags & my radar reflector. It was secured to a shroud by a plastic horn cleat with a screw & plate. In one of our races, it came lost, the backing plate went overboard, etc. etc. Rather than buy a replacement of the type that failed, while I was at the chandlery, a professional rigger told me to just get the type of cleat in the photo and "sieze" it to the shroud with "siezing wire" which I also bought. 

He mentioned that if it slid, I should buy some type of tape, but only a special non-corrosive type. So I did the messy job shown in the picture and yes, the cleat slides. So ....

1. do I give up and buy something else? what?
2. get taught a more professional way to try to tie 2 rolling hitches with wire on the shroud? your advice appreciated...
3. buy a specific type of tape which won't corrode the shroud (named what?), wrap the shroud with it, and then do the wire rolling hitches atop the tape?

Am I so new I just bought a bucket of water line?


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

For flags, I just tie the halyard around the shroud itself with about three half hitches and it holds for the day. That is probably not good enough for a radar reflector.

That job isn't looking ship-shape. Sorry, you know that. If you need something stronger, I would take it to a padeye or cleat on deck or the mast, rather than fix something to the shroud.


----------



## celenoglu (Dec 13, 2008)

A few turns around the shroud and tying the end to the turnbuckles holds well.


----------



## Kee (Oct 27, 2010)

One of these might do the trick:

Shroud Cleat


----------



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Go and have a look here

Barton Marine - Products - Special cleats


----------



## SoulVoyage (May 9, 2010)

Actually your idea of a Clam Cleat instead of a standard 2-horn cleat isn't a bad idea. 

When I bought my boat, it had some small standard 2-horn cleats on the shrouds that were always snagging sails. Those clam cleats would snag less.

So what you need is to get some friction tape and re-do your cleat job on TOP of the section of friction tape that you've wrapped around the shroud.

Wire wrap it a little tighter than you had, tuck in the ends of the wire, and get some white rigging tape and wrap the s.s. wire. The riggiing tape looks just like white electrical tape but has UV blockers built in so it won't rot so quickly in the sun.

You should always have rigging tape in your maintenance kit anyway, as you'll want to tape rigging cotter pins, etc, so that they don't tear sails.

So the "special" tape types you'll want are friction tape and rigging tape.

For anchoring the radar reflector, I might suggest replacing the nylon line with small diameter stainless steel line and then anchoring that to the shroud with a stainless steel wire-rope clamp taped with rigging tape....as having your radar reflector fall on deck because of an abraided line is a definite downer....especially if it falls on someone's head.

My radar reflector is "permanently" mounted out of the way in the quadrant above the spreaders and between the upper shroud and mast. It has survived 80 mph winds because all attachment lines are stainless steel wire.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Read: The Complete Rigger's Apprentice: Tools and Techniques for Modern and Traditional Rigging


----------



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

SoulVoyage said:


> When I bought my boat, it had some small standard 2-horn cleats on the shrouds that were always snagging sails. Those clam cleats would snag less.


I've had a small horn cleat on my starboard shroud for the courtesy flags since I bought my boat and nothing has ever snagged on it, especially not sails.

It is mounted inboard of the shroud and in this position I struggle to see any way that a sail could snag on it. On my boat the sails are outboard of the shrouds at all times.

YMMV

IMHO this is real Heath Robinson and will fail no matter how much tape goes on it.










Sorry just my personal view, no offence intended.


----------



## Outrageous (Aug 18, 2010)

No offense taken. I knew it was bad, which I why I asked. The book is on order. Learn something every day:

"A 'Heath Robinson' device is excessively ingenious but impracticable"

In the meantime, I liked the turnbuckle idea - maybe I can combine the cleat with the turnbuckle and see about the tape after I read the book.

FYI, the line is some kind of super strong grey stuff; I'm sure it will fray eventually, but it should last a while, and I don't want the radar detector up while I'm racing. On a long cruise, I like the 'mount above spreader' idea.


----------



## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Easy, clean and doesn't hurt your shroud.


----------



## jrood7 (Feb 2, 2013)

I really like the idea of attaching a regular cleat to the shroud. What kind of line did you use to attach? I looked as close as possible, but couldn't make it out. Thanks.


----------



## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

If I were a sailor, I'd make a small serving mallet and serve a short segment of that hideous 1x 19 ss using black seine twine from fishing industry. Lash a homemade horned lignam vitae cleat(groove the base and inset where the two lashing go)At the top,same, but lash on a lignam vitae stropped block and run an endless lanyard.I used a small bulls eye above the cleat to keep it at hand. If.


----------



## wrwakefield (Nov 18, 2015)

Outrageous said:


> I had a small halyard run up to the stbd spreader, for flags & my radar reflector. It was secured to a shroud by a plastic horn cleat with a screw & plate. In one of our races, it came lost, the backing plate went overboard, etc. etc. Rather than buy a replacement of the type that failed, while I was at the chandlery, a professional rigger told me to just get the type of cleat in the photo and "sieze" it to the shroud with "siezing wire" which I also bought.
> 
> He mentioned that if it slid, I should buy some type of tape, but only a special non-corrosive type. So I did the messy job shown in the picture and yes, the cleat slides. So ....
> 
> ...


Outrageous,

I've always had good luck with the purpose made metal cleats that clamp to the shrouds.

If you want to seize the type you bought to the shrouds, you may want to use a tool made for wire seizing so you can get the tension you need to hold it firmly in place.

I sometimes post about favorite tools I own and use. Here is my brief blog post about the ClampRite tool which would do what you want.

In case this is of interest.

Best wishes getting it done.

Cheers!

Bill


----------



## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

You may be overthinking this. A shroud cleat has the advantage of being very secure. If it is catching your sheets, just move them up or down a bit. I've been using them for decades without any problem. You may find that simplicity works for you too.


----------



## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

I stow my boat hook against a shroud with a couple of round thimbles (top one large for the handle; lower one small for the point of the hook) that are served onto the shroud with tarred nylon seine twine over black friction tape. I copied this idea from an RYA instructor's boat. I rubbed some Lanocote into the shroud strands first to guard against corrosion. If the twine starts to deteriorate in some future epoch, I'll just replace it. The boat hook is much heavier than a flag, but the thimbles haven't moved.
It's a lot easier to lash twine good and tight than wire. I have some Amsteel lying around but didn't use high-tech twine as it's very slippery, and it tends not to hold knots, though it might be very durable.


----------



## transmitterdan (Aug 22, 2010)

Learn how to tie an icicle hitch. Easy to adjust and will not slide even on a greased pole.


----------



## Koinonia M27 323 (May 3, 2014)

_* VallelyJ I stow my boat hook against a shroud with a couple of round thimbles (top one large for the handle; lower one small for the point of the hook) that are served onto the shroud with tarred nylon seine twine over black friction tape. *_

OK at the risk to be laughed at, what is this thimble you are describing in this post? sounds like a great idea but i dont know what it is.


----------



## Koinonia M27 323 (May 3, 2014)

ThimblesÂ* | Ronstan Sailboat Hardware World

do you mean like this? so how would you fasten this to a shroud?


----------



## wrwakefield (Nov 18, 2015)

Koinonia M27 323 said:


> _* VallelyJ I stow my boat hook against a shroud with a couple of round thimbles (top one large for the handle; lower one small for the point of the hook) that are served onto the shroud with tarred nylon seine twine over black friction tape. *_
> 
> OK at the risk to be laughed at, what is this thimble you are describing in this post? sounds like a great idea but i dont know what it is.


Hi Koinonia,

ValleyJ mentioned round [and I'm assuming plastic...] thimbles probably like these.

We have also used short lengths [e.g., 2 inches] of PVC [or better yet CPVC- better UV stability] pipe seized to various shrouds to hold boat hooks in place. PVC or CPVC couplings of the appropriate size are even better [thicker walls...]

We also stow our boathooks hook-side down, so the upper thimble, pipe, or coupling needs to be large enough for the pole to slide through. The lower coupling can be smaller diameter.

This type of mount is convenient, but the poles will sometimes rattle in the wind [with lots of noise conducted below deck...] and are not ideal for off-shore or inclement conditions- when the poles need to either be secured in place or stowed elsewhere.

In case this is helpful.

Cheers!

Bill


----------



## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

I made the upper thimble out of rope ,a grommet ,one strand of rope laid around itself 3 times (like a long splice. The lower pointy end lived in a wooden pocket fastened to the inside of bulwark.Could be cut out of old white fender. I don't use black tape as it eventually slips. No way can you get a serving/ seizing tight without a serving mallet. Black tarred nylon seine twine is the ctzass for many projects.(paint with rustoleum occasionally for the uv.)


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have a small horn cleat on our rod rigged shroud for the flags. Hasn't moved in 10 years used sail tape around the base.

I'm not a big fan of seizing wire as that could put a substantial rip in your jib


----------



## Doeska (Nov 3, 2020)

Outrageous said:


> I had a small halyard run up to the stbd spreader, for flags & my radar reflector. It was secured to a shroud by a plastic horn cleat with a screw & plate. In one of our races, it came lost, the backing plate went overboard, etc. etc. Rather than buy a replacement of the type that failed, while I was at the chandlery, a professional rigger told me to just get the type of cleat in the photo and "sieze" it to the shroud with "siezing wire" which I also bought.
> 
> He mentioned that if it slid, I should buy some type of tape, but only a special non-corrosive type. So I did the messy job shown in the picture and yes, the cleat slides. So ....
> 
> ...


Recently bought a 'shroud button cleat' at the local chandler. Also a kind of clever fitting to fasten a flag halyard ( Flag halyard shroud button cleat. ) But it did cost 16 euros. So way more than yours I guess. Regards, Mats.


----------

