# We have fallen for the Cheoy Lee 40 Offshore



## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Love is always trouble isn't it! My wife and I have been on a many year lookout for the PNW machine of our dreams. We love older designs, but long trips and 2 kids are the ingredients and it always seemed to push us to more production designs like a Cat 34/36 or some such. Not that we don't love them but we have been considering nightly turndowns of the dinette to get something with more character like a Tayana 37.

But then we find these...










1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 40 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and

Offshore 40 Sloop -- Cheoy Lee

Seems that this clicks all the boxes for us as a family, sailors and lovers of wood. They have a great rear cabin with two berths that would be PERFECT for the girls. Then it just comes down to if we fit in the fore cabin. I know about the wood upkeep, but what about them as sailors? They seem to be well regarded out there but it is a 3/4 keel and won't likely be fast. Or do I have this all wrong? Keep in mind that we are used to small production boats (25-35) vs anything like this.

Both have had recent rebuilds on the Perkins.

The second one has done an odd encapsulation of the teak decks that makes me nervous instead of removing them. Any thoughts on that?

Plan for us is to move the boat up here, next summer as an all summer inside passage trip and to buy early enough to be able to shakedown before.

Usually people ask for the sailnetters to talk them out of something. Hey! Talk us into it!


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

They are beautiful boats.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

An old friend of mine has sailed 40K Nm on his and is currently at anchor in Thailand. Plenty of boat for you to explore the world. Good luck and good sailing! In the trades you will easily average 150 nm a day...

Can you explain the "odd encapsulation" of the teak decks? Could be cause for concern, as to what may be lurking below.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

the are beautiful boats but realize regardless of the write ups they are O L D er boats


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Get Matt Harris or the guys at Reisner & McEwen to do the survey. They are well acquainted with boats produced in Taiwan.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> the are beautiful boats but realize regardless of the write ups they are O L D er boats


Yeah, nobody needs to own any older boat, who doesn't enjoy working on boats, unless they have deep pockets. 

But, I find that working on my boat gives me almost as much pleasure as sailing it.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Wait a minute... Those boats have offset companionways... Don't you realize you're gonna _DIE ???_

(grin, bigtime)

Glen Wakefield's Offshore seemed to serve him pretty well on his first attempt at a non-stop circumnavigation, until he was rolled and injured in extreme conditions E of the Falklands, so they must be a pretty weatherly boat...

Kim Chow Around the World Circumnavigation

As always, so much depends on your intended use... An offset companionway should by no means necessarily be a deal-breaker, but just be aware that it is not a desirable characteristic in a boat intended to be sailed offshore. Reading Joe Minick's account in PS of being knocked down in a severe storm while at anchor in Greece aboard his Mason 44 drives home the vulnerabilty of such offset companionways, and how easily downflooding can occur if all things conspire to go exactly _wrong_...

Those are lovely boats, easy to see why you're so attracted... Good luck, but I agree with aventyr60, I suspect little good could come over the long term from that one with the "encapsulated deck", you'd at least want a surveyor take a VERY close look at that work...


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I cannot come up with a single logical reason why this is a good decision. Let's see teak decks, wood dog house, age....

BUT, both boats to my eye are drop dead gorgeous. 

So I think you should do it anyway!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

do it! the 40 was one of the better designed cheoy lees...

ps. are you saying the second pic or link withthe white decks did a glass over of the teak decks?

ok this was a common thing HOWEVER

you must make sure they removed the actual teak and glassed over the ply sub deck

if the just glassed over the deck, caulking and all thats a recipe for disaster as the teal decks will creep from expansion and contraction not to mention once the caulking fails you have a million gaps of air and such that will expand and contract etc...

not saying its already happened but beware...if the actual teak planks were removed and then the sub deck glassed over thats been done many times sometimes with beatiful results.

in any case back to thos boats I really loved them...

Id check the sloop out, the yawl version mast however is good for radar and stuff...but not very effective sail wise.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the overall condition of the first one is much better...its also a better buy...


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Ain't it a beautiful thing when you find a boat that makes your heart go "zing!"?

But don't let practicality go completely out the window. The yawl model has double the rigging and all that entails, including maintenance costs, sail costs, etc., with very little benefit. Back in the day, yawls were popular for a couple of reasons. First, they split up the sail area, making it easier to handle for small crews. However, since the advent of modern reefing systems like slab and roller reefing (not to mention power winches), this advantage has really diminished. Second, yawls were popular for awhile in the 60's with designers because they "beat the rule", allowing for additional sail area to be added without penalizing the boat. That rule is long gone and whatever artificial advantage it bestowed is also dead. And IMHO, the rig doesn't sail as well. If you are beating to weather, there is no point to hoisting the mizzen; same for running downwind. The sail does nothing. In fact, because the main is smaller on a yawl/ketch, you actually sacrifice drive over the sloop rig. The only time the mizzen helps is when you are broad or beam reaching. And even then, I don't think it's worth having to deal with the extra rigging. To my mind, yawls and ketches just don't make much practical sense except in very special circumstances.

You are right when you speculate that a full keel boat is slower than a modern fin keel design. That's not to say that full keel boats don't have advantages. They track straight like they are on rails. And boats like the Cheoy Lee are very seakindly; their motion in a seaway tends to be more gentle and forgiving than a canoe-shaped modern design. The cons: full keel designs are not as manuverable. If you are used to being able to turn your boat around within a couple of boat lengths, get ready for a change. The same things that keep it tracking straight on course make it more difficult to turn. Just something to get used to. And backing up under power? They don't do it very well. At all. Backing a full keel boat takes a lot of practice, a lot of patience, and a lot of prayer. If you think you will be manuvering a lot in crowded marinas, I suggest that you try out a full keel boat before you buy. I did, and as much as I love the look and feel of the full keel designs, I would never buy one. I boat where the marina space is tight, and I just didn't want to go through that every time I docked. But hey, that's me. There are lots of people who do it on a daily basis and have no problems. Like I said, practice is the name of the game.

And I assume that you are the kind of guy that likes to work on his boat. You can't have a wood doghouse on a boat and not like to do maintenance.

So if this is your dream boat, enjoy! No boat is perfect, but it's the boat that we love that we make work.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Group9 said:


> Yeah, nobody needs to own any older boat, who doesn't enjoy working on boats, unless they have deep pockets.
> 
> But, I find that working on my boat gives me almost as much pleasure as sailing it.


I've pretty much reached the end of enjoyment of working on my boat LOL


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Wow! Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. These will require much work compared to others but they look to be very well enjoyed by their owners. I am used to restore projects (seems everything I buy from Kayaks, boats, houses, cars fall into this category anyway, likely a personal issue ) and actually enjoy them. When I finished our little project this year and tossed it out onto the water for the summer I was actually missing her in the driveway everyday. 

Jon, the offset companion way is no issue really for us. We are not "circumnavigators" at this point in the game. Just exploring our neck of the woods could take a lifetime. Will we make crossing of sorts, yes. But it won't be a habit. All I will think about for now is the 3 days across the Gulf. Small steps as it were. Thanks for the links!

Sad story on those decks though. Really sad in fact and I almost hate to say what was done. He painted a deck product (FOR HOUSE DECKS!!!) from Rustoleum all over the teak, caulking and all.  That boat has had tons of great work done and that one step may make it never sell. I am into projects all right, but peeling all that off, just to get to the decks and begin doing it right would be way beyond fun. Sad.

So Pelagic it is it seems. Now to see if I can make the planets align properly to make this happen.

Guess I need to start an "Inside Passage" thread.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Cheoy Lee is in Hong Kong NOT Taiwan.

Take a long and hard look at the decks. CL had a weird way of laying up a deck.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> I've pretty much reached the end of enjoyment of working on my boat LOL


Too bad. I hope I never reach that moment when it comes to boats. Funny I would rather go fix just about anything on a boat than do just about anything on the house. Thankfully my significant other tends to agree!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

bobperry said:


> Cheoy Lee is in Hong Kong NOT Taiwan.
> 
> Take a long and hard look at the decks. CL had a weird way of laying up a deck.


Actually, now they are on the mainland. Guess what they had to move their decades old shipyard to accommodate????

Wait for it....

DISNEYLAND!!!!  Oh the humanity. Although my daughters wouldn't object to a visit I bet.

What is "weird" about the deck layup? Are you talking the FG or the teak on top? Thanks Bob for any thoughts. We were actually planning on using your services when the time came one of your beauties could be made to fit the budget. Something tells me a CL boat may not be your favorite though after reading your great blog.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Minuses of that design IMO are very low ballast to displacement ratio and iron keel.
OFFSHORE 40 (CHEOY LEE) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## appick (Jan 20, 2014)

Woe unto you who buys a teak deck! 

I know about being in love with a boat and those are great beautiful boats. I'd just caution, and as strongly as I can persuasively say, be ready to remove them and lay a glass deck. I mean be really really ready for it. Plan on it as a part of what will need to be done to the boat and don't think you'll be able to re-caulk a 45 year old teak deck and have it not leak. Unless new teak has been laid in the past. More than likely there will be thin boards which won't hold a caulk seam and it will leak again shortly after the back breaking process of re-caulking has just been done. 

Read some online articles about the cost and the work necessary for laying a new deck on a 40ft boat. Be prepared for lots of extra work that you'll find when it is pulled up. 

Have you thought about the Pearson Countess's? They are are great cruising boat too, same price range and similarly good looking. Just with glass decks.

Cheers and glad you've found a new love!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

thats extreme although I understand the fear

I had teack decks on an all teack boat...the decks are where I spent the least of my time on...

sand cross grain...caulk whenever you see a gap open up

in essence they are simple to work on but like anything if you let them go to hell it will bite you in the ass...

now laying a new teak deck is out of the question for most 99 percent of us pricewise...its not even cost effective going to honduras or costa rica and or asia and having it done there...

the point is to find decks that are not beyond repair...


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

bobperry said:


> Cheoy Lee is in Hong Kong NOT Taiwan.
> 
> Take a long and hard look at the decks. CL had a weird way of laying up a deck.


Are they the ones who screwed them in from below? That way when they wear thin you have pointy screw tips sticking up?

Nice looking boats, the Hong Kong and Taiwan built boats always seem to be like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get, till you pull them apart to fix them. Sometimes amazing quality, other times amazing shortcuts. So a survey is certainly in order.

Using Rustolum Restore on top of teak decks? That is a strange one, and woudl lead me to to wonder about the rest of the maintance on the boat. I love how he says it recommended by the guy at Lowes, (misspelled as Lowels) because we know they are experts at old boat maintenance. Wonder if he had sails made out of blue tarps? And he is already on his third color. I don't know but this does not sound like a good marine material:


> It is a porous water soluable concrete type covering that sticks to wood fantastic





> Tai-Pan's deck has always been meticulously cared for. Her deck is tight and dry without any water damage evident. Tai-Pan still maintains her original cosmetic teak deck over sandwitched solid wood, surrounded by FG. In 2013, I had to decide whether to remove her entire cosmetic teak deck becasue of all the threat from tthe many brass screws in her or covering, or keep retain the teaks insulation value by covering her deck with a new special deck coating called Restore, sold at Lowels and recommended by their sales person. I applied four coats of Restore in 2013. By the summer of 2014, I was so impressed with it's performance, I added another coat and changed the color to a blue/gray becasue the white was too bright and showed dirt too easy. I am still enamored by this Resttore product as you will be too, once you see how nice a marine deck covering it is. It is a porous water soluable concrete type covering that sticks to wood fantastic and is cooler than teak in the hot sun.
> Change in Deck Color: On June 22, 2014, I added the following information: Yesterday I added two more coats of Restore decking compount to lighten the color of the deck from the darker blue/gray to a light cream color, as the blue/gray was a little too dark and dismal for my own liking. I think the light cream color brightens her deck up and blends well with the wood trim. The added two coats of Restore can't hurt either and can only add to it's deck protection. I'll be replacing all deck pictures soon with new deck pictures.


So first 4 coats, then one to change it to blue grey, then two more coats to make it cream? 7 coats of that stuff? Wow, just wow.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

appick said:


> Woe unto you who buys a teak deck!
> 
> I know about being in love with a boat and those are great beautiful boats. I'd just caution, and as strongly as I can persuasively say, be ready to remove them and lay a glass deck. I mean be really really ready for it. Plan on it as a part of what will need to be done to the boat and don't think you'll be able to re-caulk a 45 year old teak deck and have it not leak. Unless new teak has been laid in the past. More than likely there will be thin boards which won't hold a caulk seam and it will leak again shortly after the back breaking process of re-caulking has just been done.
> 
> ...


Yep. That is the assumption for sure, lots of teak to remove and reglass. I have experience in both thankfully (or not) and understand the implications for sure. One of the options up here would be to do the work in the winter when the boat is pulled anyway if I can't find one with the work already done. That is why I was so sad to see what Tai Pan had done to her. Thought that was glass until reading further.

On the Countess, I love them. Just never have found one in the northwest. Also, important bit here, the BIG difference in this boat and others that are similar in look and feel is the interior. There is NOTHING from this era, in this setup with births for 4 without dropping a table or something. Not that we won't end up doing this in the end anyway, but the Reliance/CL 40 has it all. If we fit in the front then it is perfect for us both inside and out. I have never found a single Pearson with accommodations that would work for us without sleeping in the galley.

So on that note, anyone have any other boats that would allow us to keep the kids separate as time wears on? And if the suggestion is a production boat, believe me I have a list next to me (literally) that details each one and the price ranges. We can find a 3 birth production boat not too hard that would be easy to make the trip with but we are looking for the alternatives as we get very serious.

Thanks!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Yep. The class action suit against Rustoleum that I found details on doesn't sound good either. Sounds like he made a big mistake and is trying to hide it in the otherwise good details. The deck info is hidden way down in his description and he knows it was a mistake, that is why he blames the salesperson at the home improvement store. I bet he has had a few walkaways as soon as folks realized it wasn't reglassed. That move alone may move that boat into negative value territory depending on how horrible that stuff is to remove. Just plain sad.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

he will have to face the fact that he will eiether rot the boat from not selling or take a huge cut from the price for the new buyer to repair and undo that mistake

what will probably happen is hell keep the boat and use it till he satiates his costly mistake and will sell either after the new deck starts decaying or he simply doesnt want to deal with it...

you could wait for that but you have to be a man on fire! cash in hand...bugging and begging...

anywhoo

I would love to see what happens to those decks and if a new buyer removes them what the original teak deck condition is...

I bet they will be ok, just a bit swollen...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree Christian. I bet it wasn't as bad as he feared and now the problem is the not knowing. Not our thing though. I want a boat that needs work, not a forced many year rebuild that can't be sailed at the same time. Looking for that perfect middle of the road boat. I want to do some work, that's fun, but not looking for a true project boat. And I understand that the line gets kinda thin between the two with a boat like this, but that is different from peeling 40' of goo off the top of a deck that then needs to be removed too.

MiataPaul: On the question about which way the screws go, I think down given the descriptions I have read from folks that redid their decks. Why would anyone screw up (LOL)? Just seems it would guarantee that the deck would leak and the core would be destroyed.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

As a sidenote, seems like the bulkheads and doghouse are the things to watch our for on these in addition to the usual worries about decks with teak. I have read many owners (great owners group it seems) rebuild stories and that seems to be a trend for boats that were left unappreciated.

No matter what I will need a surveyor in the Seattle area sometime before next spring. Whether for this boat or another. But that is another thread...


EDIT: I see Tom from Maine is reading this! Now we will see some love for the wood from our East coast northern team!


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## appick (Jan 20, 2014)

Ok I wasn't sure how much maintenance and fiberglass work you'd been privy to experience. Sounds like you know what you're getting yourself into. 

I had a Formosa 35 that I bought for $1100 that needed the decks just torn off. I was too young to realize the wisdom in what everyone else was saying to just it a scrapper and start tearing them off. Had I done that I probably would've been able to save the boat. In the end I stripped it and made a little money on the deal. The bulkheads started rotting and numerous fiberglass cracks in the deck house and decks made me really question the quality of the construction on the boat. Live and learn.

My experience and problem was starting with someone else's restoration project that had been abandoned and left in a farm field...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks for the story and the warning. It helps when looking into boats for sure. The boat I am really looking at is Pelagic at this point. Wish I had the time now to hop on a plane to go look but that will have to wait until the next few weeks are past. I checked the boat and it has a consistent ownership history and has done some serious cruising. Tai Pan has become a live aboard and I think sometimes that can be a very bad thing if the PO gets frustrated and wants to stop leaks now. Making a boat (or anything for that matter) better quick and cheap to fix a frustration often leads to a time bomb waiting to go off when no one is expecting it. I hate hidden problems.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

AlaskaMC said:


> MiataPaul: On the question about which way the screws go, I think down given the descriptions I have read from folks that redid their decks. Why would anyone screw up (LOL)? Just seems it would guarantee that the deck would leak and the core would be destroyed.


I am not sure if it is Choy Lee that did it that way or someone else. I just recently read something about it. Nice thing was there were no plugs in the top, and it is smooth, till it wears to the screws. Looks really good, and no leaks till the teak wears enough for water to weep down the screws.

I believe the Tartan 41 does the split berths aft like that with a v-birth up front. They have a kind of sitting area between the births as well.

TARTAN 41 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Solid old boat with lots of nice wood below, though it was originally a race boat. One sold here last year for quite a reasonable price, but needed some work.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks for the Tartan! Just looked and it reminds me of a Swan that we kinda fell for with an aft setup that was similar. Very pretty boat for sure and it would work I think. Does that rear cabin close though? Looks like it is open like a J boat or the Swan vs being a separate cabin in the Cheoy Lee.

EDIT: To explain our thinking on this berth thing for the kiddos. They go to bed way before us, and even in our Mac they can go to sleep in the V berth and we hang out and stay up and sleep on the dinette. We want to make sure that no matter how much we love a boat while sailing or just looking at it, that we at least keep the same accommodations or improve them a bit. Now a big concern for my wife and I is being able to keep an eye on the companion way so to speak. This is where the Swan fell short for example. Rear births were nice, but open, while the fore cabin was small, high up, and far from the companionway. Once again the Offshore with it's odd offset companionway solves an issue for us.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

AlaskaMC said:


> Thanks for the Tartan! Just looked and it reminds me of a Swan that we kinda fell for with an aft setup that was similar. Very pretty boat for sure and it would work I think. Does that rear cabin close though? Looks like it is open like a J boat or the Swan vs being a separate cabin in the Cheoy Lee.
> 
> EDIT: To explain our thinking on this berth thing for the kiddos. They go to bed way before us, and even in our Mac they can go to sleep in the V berth and we hang out and stay up and sleep on the dinette. We want to make sure that no matter how much we love a boat while sailing or just looking at it, that we at least keep the same accommodations or improve them a bit. Now a big concern for my wife and I is being able to keep an eye on the companion way so to speak. This is where the Swan fell short for example. Rear births were nice, but open, while the fore cabin was small, high up, and far from the companionway. Once again the Offshore with it's odd offset companionway solves an issue for us.


Don't worry it won't be long before you will be the ones going to bed earlier! My youngest is turning 16 next week (oldest is 35) so it happens in what seems to be a few weeks!

I don't think it closes. And I don't think there were many of the 41's made.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC,

I like your taste in boats, and it seems we've got similar priorities in our searches. My Formosa 41 ketch was an east Asian boat with beautiful lines and a full keel (and a perkins 4.108) and what we're buying now has the separate berths for 2 boys and is designed for PNW cruising.

Things that I see are good about the boat? She's got a lot of furniture and wood down below and would be homey and cozy. The layout is great for a family. The perkins is a bomproof (if loud and leaky) engine with cheap parts. The design is proven and comfortable for offshore. She's stunningly beautiful.

Things that aren't so good? That nearly full keel with the prop in an aperture. I had a full keel with a prop in an apeture for the last 6 years with my Formosa. She is a MAJOR PAIN to maneuver in close quarters. In fact, we pretty much never got a slip for the night at any marina because we were worried about getting in, and getting out. Once when we did (deer harbor) we were pinned in our slip by wind and stayed an extra day and only got out using very creative line work. Part of our new strategy with the kiddos is to spend more time in marinas, so we're happy to have a more maneuverable boat.

The wood masts would be a deal-breaker for me, but I'm a recovering wooden boat owner. Wood is for the cabin only in my mind. The idea that a mast tang could have a little bit of rot where it screws into the mast, and the mast comes down gives me hives. Varnishing a wood mast also doesn't sound like fun.

Teak decks are what they are. If it's plywood under them, don't let it get away from you though, or you'll be replacing huge swaths of deck structure. If you want a yard to put treadmaster on in place of the teak, I've been given the ballpark quote of 10K many times.

We were seriously considering a boat with a very similar layout, but it doesn't have a real pilothouse. (I'll help you sail her up too!):
1972 Franz Maas Pilothouse Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

If PNW sailing is your thing, there is a Nauticat 33 that has been very well maintained here in Anacortes. I know the boat well and used Russ as my buying broker for my nauticat. She's over-priced and the owner finally understands it. She'd sell for 55K or thereabouts. We nearly bought her ourselves at one point. 
West Yachts LLC (Anacortes, WA)

In general, I think the CL40 is a good boat if you're wiling to accept the compromises. She's certainly priced well! A word of caution on the listing broker Mike. He chose not to disclose that a boat he had listed (and called "turnkey bluewater offshore") had been partially sunk before. He also tried to get us into a contract whereby we couldn't get out of it if the boat survey'd poorly (ie trap us into buying it).

I agree that Matt Harris is a good surveyor, but he missed the fact that the above boat had been partially sunk. The surveyors recommended by Russ Mixner at West Yachts (Norpac marine) found this, and other issues within 2 hours and let me cut the survey short to save money.

If you do want to go forward with this boat, I'd recommend using Russ Mixner over at west-yachts as your buying broker and norpac as your surveyors. That's what kept us out of trouble! Also, if you get serious about this boat, PM me and we'll talk. The boat is within walking distance of my house, so if you want me to go check it out I can. I have stuff I should be doing, but I'd much rather be looking at a beautiful boat. 

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Another candidate perhaps:
1981 Cooper 416 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

MedSailor


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

capecodda said:


> I cannot come up with a single logical reason why this is a good decision. Let's see teak decks, wood dog house, age....
> 
> BUT, both boats to my eye are drop dead gorgeous.
> 
> So I think you should do it anyway!


If there had to be a logical reason to get married, we would all be single.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

man brokers these days...thats awesome info med.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I love those boats! There is one that was restored here in the area a few years ago, and it is a beauty. This one is a yawl like my boat. I love yawls and enjoy sailing ours. Not for everybody but somebody will always want a yawl. 

Old boats have lots of issues. The good thing is if it's a popular boat(like the CL40), those issues are well known and any good surveyor will be looking for those known issues. And the fixes have all been done, over and over, and available and documented. 

As far as the wood, the cabin, the sticks, I love it all on my boat. It makes our boat unique and very special to us. 

But I know wood, and how to care for it. Sounds like you do as well so, after sorting out the problems you're discussing and looking into, it may be a very good boat for you.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Another candidate perhaps:
> 1981 Cooper 416 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> 
> MedSailor


Great info Med! I didn't know the two boats you sent links to and I think the NautiCat is absolutely incredible (and in our budget) but the Franz Maas is stunning (and just a tad over or budget). Honestly it is over our budget and then over the refit budget too. We assumed we would be in at about 30-40 on the boat and then 10-20 on immediate needs for spending. That kinda gives you an idea on the budget thoughts though. In other words we have about $50 for a boat and some refitting. Of course we will do more refitting over time but that number is the "get it to AK" number. Not quite what your budget is but I think we are more where you were when you got the Formosa. (Our girls are still little, and I think your boys are growing up fast as I recall.)

Hence the infatuation with the RR40/CL40s. At about 30k they should need work but have had some done already. I check with the owners association and known boats and sales prices/level of refit. Sounds like Pelagic is right there where you would expect the price to be.

I am guessing that the Nauticat is more Motor than sailor though and even the full keel is a tough one for us (really "cut away forefoot 3/4 keel" if you believe the descriptions). Keep in mind that we like sailing up near glacier bays not just cause of the view, but the consistent afternoon winds for tearing' it up. This is a recent discovery for us and I think we have some work in front of us to play it out. 

Would love to have you help sailing up sometime! One way or another I am getting a boat up here next year either via the Inside Channel or finding one already up here. Choices up here are way limited though and as I have the summers off... 

On the surveyor front I must admit to some worry. I am an engineer myself and tend to notice things the "experts" miss when buying houses and cars. Don't get me wrong though, I have had excellent luck too. But stories like yours are so darn common where 3 inspectors all tell a different story. But, having one with specific knowledge of a boat's issues could be worth it's weight in gold so thanks for the tip again!

Wow there is a lot to this boat buying stuff. 

EDIT: How did I not even mention the boat you mentioned that I quoted! The Coopers ARE our shortlist up until very recently. The 416 is a bit again more than we plan to spend but the 353 and 316 are not. We love them and I would not be surprised if we ended up in one. But, they don't make our hearts go flutter as the long overhangs do, or double enders from a certain forum member. But Bob's stuff never fits the budget  That is why they are so beautiful I guess. My wife has a bit of a thing for the Norseman 447 and we don't even like CC boats.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> Wow there is a lot to this boat buying stuff.


Yeah... sure can be. The NC33 is going to be more motor than sailor, but the ability to sail from inside the warm (espar heater) cabin up in AK would extend your cruising season by months I would think. If you like the boat, you could always make a run at it with your price range and walk if they don't bite. That's what the folks who bought my Formosa did. They made a run at her with a low offer (which was all they had). I bit. 

Don't discount love, when deciding about boats. I firmly believe that all boat buying decisions are well grounded in insanity, not logic. For all the work and attention that every older boat will require _it is a prerequisite _that you be in love with her, otherwise it just won't work. Now, having said that, the trick is to temper that love/infatuation _with enough logic_ as to not be blinded and buy something that is going to ruin your cruising life.

I would like to really, strongly recommend the norpac surveyors one more time. They honestly caught multiple things that a good surveyor (Matt Harris) missed. You also get BOTH Chuck and Carol surveying your boat, so you get 2 sets of trained eyes for the price of one. Also, the boat gets a "Mars and Venus" look.  I was so impressed with how they caught stuff that others missed that I flew them out to Florida to survey my NC40. Yeah, that was expensive, but I can sleep well at night knowing that the boat is likely in the condition that they tell me it is. Since our new boat costs as much as our house, I figured it was money well spent. It wouldn't cost you any extra though. They will travel to Olympia to Anacortes for free. (I've paid mileage and hours in the past to get another surveyor from Seattle up here!)

MedSailor


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> I love those boats! There is one that was restored here in the area a few years ago, and it is a beauty. This one is a yawl like my boat. I love yawls and enjoy sailing ours. Not for everybody but somebody will always want a yawl.
> 
> Old boats have lots of issues. The good thing is if it's a popular boat(like the CL40), those issues are well known and any good surveyor will be looking for those known issues. And the fixes have all been done, over and over, and available and documented.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom! I love your boat and it was pics of it in the before/after thread (as I recall) that made us sit back and have a conversation about how we felt about our next boat choice

Time to wade into YW once again with a slightly different tack. It has revealed many boats that we adore that are often very different. For example we love the CL40, but we also can't help but smile at the flush deck Colombia's too. When we find ourselves talking about a new production boat that "ticks the boxes" you can actually hear the resignation in our voices. The do it for us without "doing it for us" if you know what I mean.

And hey, if you are gonna own a boat with lots of wood on it, why not live up here where there are some advantages to our crazy climate.

Tally time: Now I think that makes it 3 guys with lots of wood that all would recommend getting it to another sailor! . And the folks without wood warning of the dangers. One guy who got wood a long time ago, found it was a total pain and has moved on. And finally a professional guy who is known for his beautiful wood that simply warns to check on how the wood was originally placed. I think everyone is right!!! Easy to love, takes love to keep, if it is a past love there can be bitterness, and different lovers do it differently. (I can't believe I got through all that without making a "sauna on a sailboat" joke)


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Yeah... sure can be. The NC33 is going to be more motor than sailor, but the ability to sail from inside the warm (espar heater) cabin up in AK would extend your cruising season by months I would think. If you like the boat, you could always make a run at it with your price range and walk if they don't bite. That's what the folks who bought my Formosa did. They made a run at her with a low offer (which was all they had). I bit.
> 
> Don't discount love, when deciding about boats. I firmly believe that all boat buying decisions are well grounded in insanity, not logic. For all the work and attention that every older boat will require _it is a prerequisite _that you be in love with her, otherwise it just won't work. Now, having said that, the trick is to temper that love/infatuation _with enough logic_ as to not be blinded and buy something that is going to ruin your cruising life.
> 
> ...


It sure would extend our season up here! That was what was drawing us to even a Cooper 316 which would easily fit in our budget. We would use it constantly.

On the love front, we know this first hand. It is easy to get practical talking about boats, especially on forums, but that isn't what gets us off the couch and down to the water. Kinda like that "why are you cruising" thread. I think it is harder to put the finger on it than that. When I look at my wood kayak while cutting through mirror smooth water, there is more going on there than a calisthenic exercise.

I am definitely going to get a surveyor so your recommendation is pretty much a done deal. If it was up here and I was going to skip the really long shakedown journey, that could be different depending on the boat. With a boat I will be flying to when looking at it, a local surveyor will be critical. So thanks a ton on that.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks a lot. I'm getting NO work done right now. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/Fraser-Center-Cockpit-42-2619844/Delta/Canada#.U6yiZPldWSo

MedSailor


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Thanks a lot. I'm getting NO work done right now.
> 
> https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/Fraser-Center-Cockpit-42-2619844/Delta/Canada#.U6yiZPldWSo
> 
> MedSailor


Well now aint that purdy and right up our price point. I keep seeing Frasers but know nothing about them. I may need to do some reading. Right size and accommodations for sure.

I am sorry but I can't help but encourage you further at this point!  Now I need to turn some of my AK miles into a ticket to Seattle. Look at it this way, by looking at boats for me with your superior finding skills, finely honed through your recent purchase, you are slowing down your yacht world addiction rather than going cold turkey. This will help prevent shakes as you await your new yacht being delivered. Oh, and it helps me with mine sitting in Whittier waiting for me to come sail when the home must be minded for now. Two boaters stuck without their boats.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Just saw what I believe was your Formosa at West as Sold. That was a beautiful boat too. Tip of a drink to her!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Just an update for everyone on my new obsession. Called the broker yesterday. Talked to one salesperson who wasn't very interested in talking to me. Gave me the broker's phone number. Called him and 24 hours later no response. 

I know there are reasons that this can happen, but as a person who spent the last couple years in a sales environment, I can't imagine this sliding in my trade. We would have someone call back on any inquiry. No matter how small. It is amazing how a single unit call back on something cheap can turn into a huge sale down the line. I guess that was why we did so well and had a great rep. Too bad all sales organizations can't learn from this. Wish I knew how to contact the owners directly to actually ask a question about the boat.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

all my sales and buys have been person to person...

in all honesty I just dont like having a middleman in these sort of things, an informed buyer, by way of say a consultant would be better in my mind

that really sucks that you didnt even get a response...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

From a sales standpoint it just makes no sense sometimes. For example, instead of talking to him and becoming more enthralled with the boat, I went looking on YW again and found something even more expensive that has a similar (but even better) interior, with a very beautiful lines. Anyone know anything about this?

1973 LeComte Fastnet 45 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com










Above our budget for sure, but this is how this kinda thing starts after all. I mean who knows, we may end up with a NautiCat with a sauna


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah

the le comte are great boats!

I saw in person I beleive the 35 footer...they are well built and strong...

there were a few in the bay area(san francisco) back when I was dock walking and dreaming...jajaja


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

AlaskaMC said:


> Just an update for everyone on my new obsession. Called the broker yesterday. Talked to one salesperson who wasn't very interested in talking to me. Gave me the broker's phone number. Called him and 24 hours later no response.
> 
> I know there are reasons that this can happen, but as a person who spent the last couple years in a sales environment, I can't imagine this sliding in my trade. We would have someone call back on any inquiry. No matter how small. It is amazing how a single unit call back on something cheap can turn into a huge sale down the line. I guess that was why we did so well and had a great rep. Too bad all sales organizations can't learn from this. Wish I knew how to contact the owners directly to actually ask a question about the boat.


Search the USCG website for documented vessels. Should give you the name if it is a documented vessel.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I know both of these boats pretty well. Both are beautiful boats to look at but by any objective standard neither sail particularly well, especially in light or heavy air. Both boats really hate sailing in a chop. 

Of the two, the Fastnet is a superior boat in every way. The Fastnet points higher and more reliably, and generally sails better on all points of sail. While not as well known today, Bill Luders was one of the top designers of the era, and a creative genius known for his innovation and attention to detail. Dolf LeCompte was a perfectionist. At the risk of being drawn and quartered, I would venture to say that in that era LeComptes were better constructed than Hinkleys of that era. There was almost no detail too small for LeCompte to specify. LeCompte even specified his resin mixes and laminate handling techniques, anticipating by a decade the proper mixing and fabric handling to minimize fatigue and to decrease brittleness over time which plagues most FG boats of that era. I would also suggest that boats like these are pretty hard to sell. If this boat really knocks your socks off you may be able to negotiate it down to your budget. 

On the flip side, once you get past Cheoy Lee's lavish wood work, Cheoy Lees of that era were considered to be pretty shoddy. Electrical systems were generally poorly done. Cheoy Lee made much of their own hardware, some of which was known to have dubious metallurgy and making the less durable/reliable and replacement parts very hard if not impossible to come by. Their glass work was average or below. (I worked on a Cheoy Lee grinding and chiseling out a lens of uncured resin) 

Cheoy Lee was notorious for publishing the designer's weights and then building boats which were well over design weight and with less ballast than specified. The extra weight hurt light air performance and upwind performance. The overweight hulls,decks, rigs and interiors and reduced ballast, really hurt stability, heavy air performance, motion comfort, and carrying capacity. 

If these are the types of boats that appeal to you, another boat of this general type was the Seafarer 45 and the Seafarer 48 later Hughes Northstar 48. 

From my point of view, boats like these are visually stunning, and would be a reasonable coastal cruiser in a venue with pretty consistent winds in the 10-15 knot range. They make a poor choice as a cruiser given their tight interiors, physically demanding ease of sailing, and less than stellar capabilities at the light and heavy end of the wind range. Frankly in your apparent price range there are somewhat smaller boats which offer more room on board, superior sailing ability and which are simply easier boats to sail and maintain. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

We had a 1963 Rhodes Reliant (later produced as the CL Offshore) in the early 1970's. Beautiful boat to look at and nice sailing, albeit slow, once you got her moving (although we always had enough wind for that on SF Bay). The maintenance, however, and particularly the brightwork, was off the chart. We did love the boat but were not unhappy to replace her in '76 with a lovely, low maintenance Cal.

FWIW...


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


> From a sales standpoint it just makes no sense sometimes. For example, instead of talking to him and becoming more enthralled with the boat, I went looking on YW again and found something even more expensive that has a similar (but even better) interior, with a very beautiful lines.
> 
> 1973 LeComte Fastnet 45 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


Wow! That's another beauty, I love the LeComtes and anything by Bill Tripp.

One of the many attractions to 'vintage' designs like this is how much boat is available for the purchase price that will likely be quite a bit lower than asking. A lot of fresh gear has been installed on that boat. In the end, only a close inspection will tell the real condition.

Like the CL, the Fastnet has that 'real boat' appeal for me. Wide decks and a large cockpit, so handy for the racing crews they were designed for, are an absolute joy for family sailing and cruising.

And below the Fastnet has real berths. Our kids grew up in their own pilot berths. They loved their own 'space'. Newer boats with their big aft cabins made little sense for our kids. They get along great, but an aft cabin would be like throwing the cat and dog in there.

Sure, you can get more dwelling space in a new 45'er, but that evolved space-design just doesn't appeal to me. I like the narrow berths, tight spaces and general boat-like feel of the Fastnet.

There's an ambiance to both sailing and spending time at anchor on these old boats, that's addictive.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

TomMaine said:


> Wow! That's another beauty, I love the LeComtes and anything by Bill Tripp.


While I too really admire Bill Tripp's work, unlike the smaller LeCamptes, I believe the Fastnet was penned by Bill Luders (A.E. Luders).


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> I know both of these boats pretty well. Both are beautiful boats to look at but by any objective standard neither sail particularly well, especially in light or heavy air. Both boats really hate sailing in a chop.
> 
> Of the two, the Fastnet is a superior boat in every way. The Fastnet points higher and more reliably, and generally sails better on all points of sail. While not as well known today, Bill Luders was one of the top designers of the era, and a creative genius known for his innovation and attention to detail. Dolf LeCompte was a perfectionist. At the risk of being drawn and quartered, I would venture to say that in that era LeComptes were better constructed than Hinkleys of that era. There was almost no detail too small for LeCompte to specify. LeCompte even specified his resin mixes and laminate handling techniques, anticipating by a decade the proper mixing and fabric handling to minimize fatigue and to decrease brittleness over time which plagues most FG boats of that era. I would also suggest that boats like these are pretty hard to sell. If this boat really knocks your socks off you may be able to negotiate it down to your budget.


Nice write-up as always, Jeff...

When I was a kid, the flush deck 33' Lecomte Medalist was my Dream Boat. I'd gaze at the ads in YACHTING magazine, and clip every photo I could find of one... There was just something about that boat, I couldn't imagine anything more beautiful...










Apparently, I was not alone... The pic above is from the blog of Webb Chiles, the Medalist was his first Dream Boat, as well:



> When I was out here earlier this year I met Dan, a young Australian who recently completed 4 ½ years as a submariner in the Australian Navy. He had just bought what was my first dream boat, a 33' Le Comte Medalist, and commented that I was one of the few he had met who had ever heard of Medalists.
> 
> My memory was faulty in that I thought I had desired a Medalist when I was studying ads in YACHTING magazine while I was in high school; but the boats weren't built until 1961, so I was in college.
> 
> ...


Now, if I were to learn that the Medalist was one of YOUR Dream Boats, as well, that would _really_ place me in good company... 

About 20 years ago, I got a chance to deliver a Medalist from Solomons up to LI Sound... I jumped at the chance to sail the dream boat of my childhood, but the guy was really shopping for the best price, so I quoted him a low ball flat rate for the trip...

Big mistake... Damn, that thing was _SLOW_... 

Unfortunately, I had very little opportunity to sail her on that trip, it was a motor job virtually the entire way... You're right, in any sort of chop, she just stopped dead...

Still, I'd be proud to own a Lecomte today, the 38 is now my favorite, a boat quite similar to Tom's very sweet Alden Challenger... I've always loved Tripp's designs from back then, and looked seriously at a Tripp Lentsch 29 when shopping for my boat almost 20 years ago...

Those guys like Luders and Bill Tripp, they sure had an eye...


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Those guys like Luders and Bill Tripp, they sure had an eye...


That they did. This is a real old Tripp design in wood. The family eye goes way back.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

JonEisberg said:


> Nice write-up as always, Jeff...
> 
> When I was a kid, the flush deck 33' Lecomte Medalist was my Dream Boat. I'd gaze at the ads in YACHTING magazine, and clip every photo I could find of one... There was just something about that boat, I couldn't imagine anything more beautiful...
> 
> ...


Jon,
Thanks for the kind comment.

Add me to the list of folks who dreamed about owning a Medalist as a kid.. But then I discovered how slow they were even compared to the boats of the day. Then I discovered the Tripp designed Galaxy 32, which was the Medalist that sailed as well as a Medalist looked like it should have sailed. The Galaxy beyond a doubt was my favorite Tripp design. Look them up if you want to see a boat that was 15-20 years ahead of its time.

Jeff


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

My untrained eye looks at the medalist's bow and sees a fine and moderate entry to the water. What made her slow and stop with every wave? 

I owned a lifeboat, converted to a sloop. 31ft on deck and 31ft LWL. Her 10ft beam could be found 5 ft aft of her bows. THAT was a boat that STOPPED when she found a tall square wave. 

Medsailor


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

To some extent, that was the basis of my comment about the Galaxy sailing like the Medalist looked like it should. What hurt the Medalist was their short waterline coupled with their small sail plan, high drag, and their sheer weight. The waves would cause them to hobbyhorse more than idea, but less than a boat with a blunter bow. The hobbyhorsing would slow them down, as they might any other boat, but then there wasn't enough sail area to over come the weight and drag, and get the boat going again.

By comparison, the Galaxy was a foot shorter on deck, had 6" more waterline length, and had a production weight that was reportedly 800-1000 lbs less than the Medalist. The Galaxy had 10% more sail area, less wetted surface, a little more beam, and roughly 800 lbs more ballast carried in a slightly deeper bulb type keel. Below are some pictures of Galaxy's and I think you can see how slippery they were. At 60 seconds per mile faster than the Medalist 1, these were wildly fast boats for their day nearly 60 years ago (They were designed in 1956 and started production in 57).


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

nice nice boat...that looks like classic fun


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> I know both of these boats pretty well. Both are beautiful boats to look at but by any objective standard neither sail particularly well, especially in light or heavy air. Both boats really hate sailing in a chop.
> 
> Of the two, the Fastnet is a superior boat in every way. The Fastnet points higher and more reliably, and generally sails better on all points of sail. While not as well known today, Bill Luders was one of the top designers of the era, and a creative genius known for his innovation and attention to detail. Dolf LeCompte was a perfectionist. At the risk of being drawn and quartered, I would venture to say that in that era LeComptes were better constructed than Hinkleys of that era. There was almost no detail too small for LeCompte to specify. LeCompte even specified his resin mixes and laminate handling techniques, anticipating by a decade the proper mixing and fabric handling to minimize fatigue and to decrease brittleness over time which plagues most FG boats of that era. I would also suggest that boats like these are pretty hard to sell. If this boat really knocks your socks off you may be able to negotiate it down to your budget.
> 
> ...


Jeff,

Thanks for the great post and all your thoughts on both boats. Cheoy Lee seems to be one of those brands that people either love or hate. The LeComte really is a perfect fit for us on paper, of course when I see it the situation may not hold up. I am planning a trip down in a month to look at a bunch of boats and get this search on for real. Of course I will likely find something that makes each of these not work. How many boats do most folks look at before a real opportunity shows up?

Can I ask if you would place all older full keelers in the same position as you note in your last paragraph? (Good only in medium airs, demanding to sail, etc) We have been on many boats, but haven't had a chance to try a full keel yet and are very curious. We go back and forth on if we should consider them mostly due to the contradictory opinions that people seem to have on them. What we really have been able to discern from the endless arguments is that it is very much design specific and that not all are alike. A Tayana 37 does not necessarily sail like a Westsail 32. Not that either is "bad" but that saying to go try a full keeler may not really reflect the experience on another. True for fin keels as well I assume?

People always say go get on as many boats as possible. But even if you do the subtile differences in design may make a "similar" boat feel totally different (If I read opinions correctly). A 32 and a 32X (made up examples) from the same brand, but different designers or build years, make for totally different boats.
This makes for such an interesting situation for those of us in small markets looking for a boat.

I do notice that the opinions seem to track different for those that live aboard and cruise vs those that race or weekend mostly. Also, West coast vs East coast and high latitudes as well.

In the end we want a good sailor, that has some character, and berths appropriate to our family. It will not be an offshore boat but rather be used occasionally to make brief passages. The one from PWS to the inside passage comes to mind. 3 separate births, one double and two single in two cabins would work best me thinks but it just is so rare in a boat. This is what attracted us to both the LeComte and the CL. It was the non standard berths first, then we found ourselves loving the lines as well.

Sorry for the thought meandering. Just got back from 3 days sailing by myself and my mind is still in free wander mode!

Time to go check out the Seafarer and Northstar! Thanks for the suggestions!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

svHyLyte said:


> We had a 1963 Rhodes Reliant (later produced as the CL Offshore) in the early 1970's. Beautiful boat to look at and nice sailing, albeit slow, once you got her moving (although we always had enough wind for that on SF Bay). The maintenance, however, and particularly the brightwork, was off the chart. We did love the boat but were not unhappy to replace her in '76 with a lovely, low maintenance Cal.
> 
> FWIW...


Can I ask what you mean by "off the chart"? This is such a personal matter depending on what folks enjoy. I own and build wood kayaks for example that need varnishing. Some kayakers I know and respect consider them a total pain with "off the chart" maintenance. To me it is time I spend with a boat I love. What other maintenance would be different (lets assume two 1970s boats)?

I ask these questions totally from ignorance please understand and not a challenge.

I should ask folks what kind of car they drive. I drive an older modified Audi TT. Love it. Can't imagine wanting anything else even with it's oddities.

On the sailing front though it sounds like light air would be a problem. I guess I should have seen that coming though and of course Jeff said the same. We have LOTS of light air up here in the summer and we don't want to motor all the time thats for sure!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> Wow! That's another beauty, I love the LeComtes and anything by Bill Tripp.
> 
> One of the many attractions to 'vintage' designs like this is how much boat is available for the purchase price that will likely be quite a bit lower than asking. A lot of fresh gear has been installed on that boat. In the end, only a close inspection will tell the real condition.
> 
> ...


We really love this boat, at least from the pics and description. Our budget is getting a possible modification for boats like this in fact. I agree on the wide decks and cockpit. I don't understand why boats widen the house and put headroom where you never stand killing walking space on deck. I think Bob P mentioned this in one of the threads and now I see it everywhere. Makes it seem bigger inside without getting useable space by taking useable space away on deck.

I want flat decks and fun space above. Heck, forget all this. We are getting a Tripp Colombia 43!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Hey Tom,

Was your Challenger finished by LeComte too? This one apparently was according to the ad. Was a yawl and was converted. Now if this was on the west coast we may have another candidate.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


> Hey Tom,
> 
> Was your Challenger finished by LeComte too? This one apparently was according to the ad. Was a yawl and was converted. Now if this was on the west coast we may have another candidate.


Like the majority of Alden Challengers, ours was finished at the Paul Molich yard in Denmark(all hulls and decks were cast in 'fibre'-glass at the Hallmatic Yard in the UK). Challengers were also finished at several yards, Derector in NY, Morse in Maine, and LeComte, and one or two more.

Molich had their own style like all yards, and the differences in finish details are evident.










If a reasonably well designed old boat has a clean bottom, isn't overloaded with weight, has decent sails, many of us that can sail will have a great time in 5 knots of wind! I especially like sailing in light air with my boat.










You just have to be happy sailing an anachronism. Which is what many of us do in Maine.  Old boats, like our old rattling houses, are a popular way of life.

I had a wooden boat surveyor tell me, "you own a peculiar boat". I think that's a fair assessment. Like the CL, Alden wanted to sell the best of both wood and glass with their Challenger. These boats are a snapshot in time in sailboat design.

I love the way the boat sails and performs, half a century later. It has dated faults I accept and qualities you just can't get in a new boat.

There are so many great boats, new and old, out there for you. It can be a tough decision, unless one picks you.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> There are so many great boats, new and old, out there for you. It can be a tough decision, unless one picks you.


Thanks Tom. I am anachronism so it shouldn't be a problem I think in many ways we think alike. We are simplistic campers compared to most I think so a basic style is what we want. Thanks for the light winds pic! That is most encouraging for sure. So you think that the CL isn't such a crazy choice! How tight were the quarters in the Challenger with your kids? Something tells me sailing in Maine is a lot like Alaska! Lots of wood up here too and beautiful older boats.

Do you know how many Honda owners have tried to explain to me how unpractical my ole 914, VWs, or Audi TT are?  I always have people question my choices as being way too much work and explaining that there was an easier, more modern way. When I try to explain how it makes me "feel" their eyes go a bit blurry and I can tell that I have lost them. Tough in a world that tosses appliances just because the new one came out in a better blue.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Double Post Ooops


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Oooh. Now I want the Fastnet even more. Check it out!






Just plain gorgeous. Anyone know how these actually sail? I was trying to find anything on them in googleland and stumbled onto the video of the boat for sale.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


> How tight were the quarters in the Challenger with your kids? Something tells me sailing in Maine is a lot like Alaska! Lots of wood up here too and beautiful older boats.


Our daughter and son started sailing as babies on our 28'er. They had 8 or 9 seasons on that boat including one winter cruise to the Bahamas before we bought Christmas. She was commodious for all of us! Each having a pilot berth gave them their own space and storage drawers, cabinets and shelves.

As an early riser, I loved that I could head to the galley pre dawn, and not disturb them. And they were never in my way. There's always easy access from veeberth to cockpit.

The boats you've posted are even better with good seaberths aft in private cabins, but separate berths.

It's simple logistics that the best family cruiser would have only one double, the rest, singles . Ironically, that layout is an anachronism, too.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> Our daughter and son started sailing as babies on our 28'er. They had 8 or 9 seasons on that boat including one winter cruise to the Bahamas before we bought Christmas. She was commodious for all of us! Each having a pilot berth gave them their own space and storage drawers, cabinets and shelves.
> 
> As an early riser, I loved that I could head to the galley pre dawn, and not disturb them. And they were never in my way. There's always easy access from veeberth to cockpit.
> 
> ...


We have been using the 25' for 2 seasons now and were planning the typical 2' jump as it were and decided to reevaluate the plans. We had a big conversation about this last night and the Fastnet is really pulling ahead. We were considering another "in between" boat before the "real" boat, if you follow me. Now we think that may be silly and it is time to go big.

(For those of you in sales this should be a lesson: strike while the opportunity is fresh. Sales guy on the CL40 NEVER called. I found the owners name but haven't contacted them. Had he called back right away and done a good job exciting us about the boat, we could be hooked. Instead, he didn't, we looked and found something else to be excited about. Not that we are done with considering it, but now we have to be RE-excited. Major sales screwup. )

My wife has stated that she wants a minimum of 2, 3 week summer trips in PWS along with the typical weekends. We have arranged our work life to be VERY BUSY in the winter with nothing much in the summer, and a move to Seward may also be in order. The time to buy the boat of our dreams may be closer than we thought and a LeCompte Fastnet sure would fit that bill.

I am also an early riser and being able to get up and get to the galley and cockpit without waking the family would be great everyday. I agree with you that a double for parents and then single births for kids would make lots of sense but no one seems to design them anymore. I think a walk on the docks answers why. Most boats seem to be owned by couples now with kids that have moved away and they have no need for kid berths. Those of us looking to sail with kids are shoe horning family needs into boats designed to appeal to empty nesters. They also have the money for a new boat. So the used market is full of their cast offs.

You do see alternative layouts in Europe commonly but those boats don't get over here sadly. So many of them would be great in the NW or NE.

Today I make some calls and set wheels in motion. This is ahead of our schedule by a few months (remember that we can't move a boat 'till next summer) but maybe all will work out for the best. We shall see!


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

This thread is loaded with beautiful boats and people who appreciate them. 

AlaskaMC I admire your taste!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

capecodda said:


> This thread is loaded with beautiful boats and people who appreciate them.
> 
> AlaskaMC I admire your taste!


Thanks for the kind words. These boats are inspiring for sure. Anyone have any others that they think should be in here? Bring on the suggestions!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Ive always had a thing for the pearson INVICTA yawl just had those lines, yes very different design here but on deck along those lines if you will going on here, beatiful in my mind.

INVICTA (PEARSON) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> Ive always had a thing for the pearson INVICTA yawl just had those lines, yes very different design here but on deck along those lines if you will going on here, beatiful in my mind.
> 
> INVICTA (PEARSON) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Thanks! Yep, that is indeed a beautiful boat and right up our alley for sure. Here is a great pic of the only sloop they made.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks! That is one beautiful boat and right up our alley design wise. I found a pic of a sloop rigged version too.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

I think when I named this thread I could have had no idea that it would reveal a like that I never realized I have.

Offset companionways! I found another very interesting boat to us, and didn't notice this right off the bat. But what do you all think of the Ericson 39B?

Since I will be in Seattle looking anyway, why not see a bunch of boats right?

1977 Ericson B Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Of course, speaking of offset companionways, there is the obvious choice. If only the budget was just a tad bigger.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Ericson was one good boat builder in my youth. Like this one. Get the impression that her owner like to maintain. 

As it is a very old boat you can probably get her for less than advertised. 

Think about:

What investments do you have to do? Engine? Sails?
One day you will sell, what do you think you would get?

/ J


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


>


There is a lot to like about this boat. I understand ericksons are well thought of and sail well, but my knowledge in this area is limited to rumor only.

This boat is unquestionably well maintained. That's worth a LOT. More time sailing, less time fixing. More time adding stuff you want, less time fixing. More money for toys, less money for fixing.

I was also impressed at what an offset companionway can do with Bob Perry's design "Night Runner". How can you have an aft cabin, and a low aft cockpit, and lazarettes? Wow.... Cool.... I wouldn't get too stressed out about the knockdown issue. Night runner has done the singlhanded transpac a bunch of times and has rounded the horn. Keep the hatch closed when offshore in the nasty stuff. Simple right?

2 questions. Are you okay putting both kids in the V-berth? I thought you really wanted separate berths? We originally wanted separate berths, but we know lots of cruising couples that stick both kids in the V-berth and there isn't an issue. Kids get used to whatever you provide.

Spec sheet says 1988 perkins with 300 hours, but also says 30 hours after a rebuild. Find out more about that. It's likely more hours. Hopefully more hours....

Erickson gets my vote so far.

MedSailor


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the ericsons are great...I had a thing for the 35mk2 I think it was...theye are nice racer cruisers


one thing I do not like is the hull deck joint not having toerails..I think if you have that type of boat perforated toe rails are almost a must...for attaching stuff, racing, strength, etc...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaramaz said:


> Ericson was one good boat builder in my youth. Like this one. Get the impression that her owner like to maintain.
> 
> As it is a very old boat you can probably get her for less than advertised.
> 
> ...


Thanks. She does look good but sails look like they need replacement just from the ad, and the standing rigging might be a bit long in the tooth. Other than that it looks like a pretty perfect boat.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> There is a lot to like about this boat. I understand ericksons are well thought of and sail well, but my knowledge in this area is limited to rumor only.
> 
> This boat is unquestionably well maintained. That's worth a LOT. More time sailing, less time fixing. More time adding stuff you want, less time fixing. More money for toys, less money for fixing.
> 
> ...


I think the rebuild is 300 hours back (but we shall see) and it does look like you could eat from that bilge in fact.

On the separate berth, yes, it is kinda an issue. We would WAY prefer to have room for the kiddos to spread out when they are getting irritated with each other. Is it a requirement, no, but it is a big desire. But, if the perfect Valiant showed up (or any number of Bob's beauties) in budget we would work real hard to get it to work out. Something tells me that Night Runner in all her cold molded glory isn't anywhere near our budget. Now, if we could find a Valiant with the pullman aft berth and bunks up front, then we might just break that budget all to heck. 

This Ericson does look incredible in it's maintenance. I do see that for all the attention with some details, sailing doesn't appear like it was top on the list. We really like this one so far, but it isn't making the heart strings sing the way some of the others are. But it will be visited in person just to make sure. That really makes a difference sometimes.

The Fastnet still is holding our dreams so far. We shall see if reality works out for us.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> the ericsons are great...I had a thing for the 35mk2 I think it was...theye are nice racer cruisers
> 
> one thing I do not like is the hull deck joint not having toerails..I think if you have that type of boat perforated toe rails are almost a must...for attaching stuff, racing, strength, etc...


I didn't notice the lack of a toe rail in the pics. Thanks for pointing it out. Interesting.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Hmhm,

Listen to the heart strings. Boats are not about economy. Whatever boat you buy you will invest money and time in, so you better like it!
On the other hand, boats has a strange tendency to grow on you .....

Some further words on the Ericson:

Standing rigging ... guess 2-4 k$
Sails 3- 10 k$, sail shape is not critical on this one.


Then I guess the rig is MH, and genoa size 40 - 60 sqm, winches indicate this as well. Are you comfortable with this? (Been there, done that, and never again. Highly depends on where and how you sail).

/J


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaramaz said:


> Hmhm,
> 
> Listen to the heart strings. Boats are not about economy. Whatever boat you buy you will invest money and time in, so you better like it!
> On the other hand, boats has a strange tendency to grow on you .....
> ...


I agree. Passion about boats has been the breakfast table conversation this morning for sure. We want to be crazy for anything that is this incredible.

On the sails, are you pointing out the large overlapping genoa and smaller main? Could you elaborate? I have been mostly sailing fractional rigs just by chance and have little experience with big overlapping foresails. Thoughts?

As a note, the Fastnet does not appear to fall into the same design quirk. Agree?


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Dont forget the nauticat 33 here in Anacortes has separate berths for the kiddos in rhe aft cabin while you get the privacy of the forepeak. Espar heating and sailing from indoors in alaska could be good. C'mon drink the kool-aid


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Oh we haven't forgotten her. In fact, she deserves a place on the pic front too.










Nauticat's are extremely nice looking especially for up here in the AK cold. But one thing, we are planning on this purchases possibly ending up the long term/long distance cruiser, vs just AK and PNW. What are your thoughts on pilot houses when you start ending up in warmer climes. Is your new beauty going to stay here or how far will you wander?

I mean, as much as we like it here, I would love to go somewhere warm someday, even if just to visit and see my legs for a change. Last time I looked they were rather shockingly white and I had to avert the eyes.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

The traditional motorsailor line, which the nc33 is one all have a huge sunroof hatch. Its about a meter square. If you open it and both side doors I think youd have 10x the ventilation of a standard sailboat. In fact when planning how we'd use the nc38 we figured we could come in the pulothouse to escape the heat but still feel like we were outside. 

The S&S designed nauticats like mine seem like they'd get very hot and dont have huge ceiling hatches or side doors. Mine came w 2 air conditioning units so we can cool the boat but I'll risk being "that guy" running the genset. :-( for around here I really think the nc33 nc36 and nc38 are better boats.


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## CaptainChaos (Oct 15, 2012)

Mine came w 2 air conditioning units so we can cool the boat but I'll risk being "that guy" running the genset. :-( for around here I really think the nc33 nc36 and nc38 are better boats.[/QUOTE]

Boo!!! 

I actually understand but I just don't like the sound of the genset running. I chose to put extra 12V fans in Wanderlust to address the issue. Having said that, I'm not sure what I'll do when I get to the high latitudes and may want some heat...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Since this has turned into our "Find us a bigger boat" thread, here is one that doesn't totally match with the others, but we really like. Has it all, both inside and out it seems.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/res...5747_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=606&h=467&t=1360975484000










So far we have 5 boats to see while in Washington soon (assuming they are still for sale).

1. Pelagic the Cheoy Lee 40 
2. Fastnet 45
3. Nauticat 33
4. Ericson 39B
5. Wauquiez 42 Centurion

Very different set of boats I must say now looking at the list. But each brings something to the table that the other's don't. Right now sight unseen the Fastnet is holding our hearts. The CL40 may be too long a keel and too big a project but we aren't giving up. The Nauticat just looks plain comfortable for Alaska. The Ericson is one of the cleanest boats I have ever seen advertised. And finally the Wauquiez 42 looks truthfully like the best fit to our family and may be the best balance of all the factors.

Gosh I love doing this when it is real for a change. 4 years of looking without any real plans. Now we have to put up or shut up. God that is so much more fun than pretending. 

Now I just need a non blister Valiant to tear a big double ended hole in our plans (and budget).


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


>


What a great pic to be kinda messed up with fenders hanging for all to see. Does this kinda thing happen when you go to the dark side? :laugher


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

If you're gunna' use photoshop, go ahead and take out the fenders too! Am I right? Am I right?

MedSailor


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## captain conrad (May 18, 2006)

I have a Cheoy Lee 1977 Richardson offshore 41 I don't need to ever buy another boat.
It's old need a lot of attention work and love but the way she sails makes it worth all the sweat and money. Its always the best looking boat in the harbor. 
Teak decks need to be maintained, chain plates engine and most systems need to be checked, heads replaced refrigerator updated AC power updated 
12V system inspected and updated all in the name of love for the Cheoy Lee.
There is a Cheoy Lee web site Delphi Forums Login - Welcome! Please log in.
Check it out!


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Alaska,

Good to have a list of boats to look at but I think you have some more homework to do. Your list contains completely different kinds of boats, from long keeled, to seemingly rather modern via the NC33. 
Understands Meds entusiasm for the NC, but the traditional NC doesn't sail. Internal volume for a family is not very great either. They are perfect and comfortable boats for a pair wanting to have long seasons at high latitudes. Just consider the dinner table below - 4 persons in comfort as a max.

Propose you focus on how you want to use the boat, and what capacity it must have.

You were interested in some more info on large headsails on the E39. Well, during the 70-ies it was rather popular with MH rigs with a small main and a bit larger genoa, a consequence of the rating rules at that time. Without knowing I could guess the E39 to have a main in the size of 30-35 sqm, and a genoa of 40 - 60 sqm. Sheeting 60 sqm is not a childs play, and if you are going to do this often you will not like it. This is one reason for the partial rig come back in the early 80-ies. 
Find the data for the E39 and make a careful inspection of the winches.
BTW, the main sheet is not easy accessable for the one steering. Can be fixed. This I think is very essential to have; it must be easy to control what powers the boat.

/J


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

jaramaz is reffering to the huge overlapping and genoa or foresail powerful IOR era boats and derivatives.

small high aspect main and huge overlapping foresails(where the power is) meaning for mom and pop it will be very cumbersome using hank on sails because they need to be changed often for max performance but also affect heel tremendously. A furler helps with this but it really doesnt because furlers on ior boats effectively limit the range of sailing you will be doing, its impossible to have a 160 furler in 10knots of wind and then have to go down to 100 percent or less when it gets to 20knots wind...thats because these boats are used to having the perfect sized foresail for given wind, especially because they are supposedly used to be raced or crewed mostly.

anywhoo

While I dont like to point out the obvious defficiencies some of the boats mentioned have...I think alaska is doing the RIGHT thing...

the more extremes you know and taste, and try out, the more you know where you fit in *sailing* wise

for example by going to see a nauticat 33 and at the same a waquiez 42 you will see what each boat does and is good and bad at.

a nauticat 33 might be perfect for light sailing areas, deep anchoring, motoring long distances in currents in a nice pilothouse enclosure it would be the absolute ANTITHESIS for tradewind sailing or tropical sailing or SAILING for that matter

so Ill Im saying is go taste the waters...see what extremes are like and see what you preffer I bet you will find you are somewhere in the middle.

all boats are compromises and all boats have pros and cons...chose the boat that will suit your style of sailing, cruising, racing etc...

peace


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

You are both very right when it comes to the list. We know what we think we want, but want to get on a number of boats just to be sure we have seen what exists in our price range. 

We want to check out the Nauticat because there are lots of "similar" boats up here. Very common and we thought we should take a look. And hey, Med's has a sauna, you just gotta envy that kinda sailing luxury. Of course his is S&S and can sail.

We still would place the CL and the Fastnet as our top choices in the list. The Ericson concerns me on the huge overlapping sails. Yes, I have done that and much prefer a large main and easy to handle sails up front. Heck, I even like hanking! We have been watching that on the designs and I think it was the only one in so far with that kinda setup.

As far as use. Lets spell this out. 1 couple, both 6'2'', 2 kids (small but growing), Alaska (light air sailing common, but so can be heavy weather), 2 three week summer trips in Prince William Sound and nearby, then off south again in 5 years or less to see exotic locals and such. Up on deck we like cutters, ketches are acceptable, flatter decks liked, offset companionways have become well loved. I don't know if I have said it before but my wife and I both love Valliants and if they had a set of bunks up front then I bet we would make it happen.

So I don't think the list is too crazy. Quality designed boats with berths appropriate for 4 (one couple and 2 singles) with some privacy. Sailing manners is important so the NC has a hill to climb for sure. Backing up easy would be nice so the CL may be at a disadvantage. Large aft cockpit, smaller headsails. 

Just read the Steve and Linda Dashaw heavy weather book and it was really interesting when considering boats. Good read by the way.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

alaska if you fall into a deal on a valiant 40 call yourself lucky...they are well regarded boats, with some issues but nothing catastrophic...
they are well viewed and respected boats

they also hold their value

we befriended one in mazatlan on the way down the pacific coast and I loved it...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Another classic has come to our attention with some nice rear berths for the kiddos. Whadda ya all think about this, a Swan 40.

1972 Swan 40 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com










Oddly I have found 3 of these for sale in the area all about the same price. Interesting layout again like the others and I would suspect a decent performing boat. Down below looks even tighter than the CL to my eye though. But very interesting way of doing the wood in the cabin.










The list for our visit grows.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Sorry, doesn't do it for me. Looks like an IOR boat up top and an overly crowded Ikea apartment below.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Of course we could just go all wood crazy and do this one.

CT41 









She is up here in AK and in seemingly good condition. But not really up our alley right now I am thinking. Your darn comment about wood spars giving you hives is now giving me hives. I had myself all over everything else on the CL this weekend, and then realized that I was looking at painted wood spars instead of aluminum. Hives. Dang.

Are wood spars something to really be concerned with? I guess I am ok with wood I can inspect at deck level but worried about something I don't see so often.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


> Are wood spars something to really be concerned with? I guess I am ok with wood I can inspect at deck level but worried about something I don't see so often.


Wood spars are good, if you like wood. 

Painted wooden spars are trickier to know the condition. Bright will need a maintainence coating once a season(or every other in ours in your climate). That's easy to do if the spars are on saw horses, more work in a bosun chair. Wooden spars because of their angle to the sun, will hold a coating longer than just about any area of brightwork on a boat.

With that care, you should get 15 or more years before you need to strip the finish and build a new protective coating. Paint, is less work, but needs attention.

Mine are 53 years old and look like new(typical of brightwork that is cared for). I've wooded them once. That long life span of wood that is maintained, is hard to beat with other materials.

Material is second to design for me, so I'll throw in a couple of wooden favorites.

BOLERO is not for sale.  She'll never be built again but this S&S post war design had a huge influence on boat design later(and even today). A design like BOLERO, is forever.










One of my favorites is FIDELIO. A sistership to the S&S FINESSTERRE. This is my favorite design era. These boats will always make great family cruisers. Wooden hulled boats are not for everybody, but for some people(many friends of mine), nothing else will do.










Here's a local boat used harder than most. Does several day charters-7 days a week, all season long in Maine with 10+ passengers per trip.

In November, it sails offshore to the Carribean and spends the winter in the St Thomas area, doing the same. Returns offshore, in May(I took this shot after it docked up from the return leg-note the jerry cans for fuel).

It's only break is an annual haul out in Maine, for a week or two. The owners, husband and wife do all the maintenance, as well as captain and crew the charters. In fact, they built their Alden schooner design themselves.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> Of course we could just go all wood crazy and do this one.
> 
> CT41


Wish I had known you liked this kind of boat. The Formosa 41 is basically a sister ship, and I had the only one around with nice aluminum spars.

Unless you have lots of offshore plans though, the Formosa/CT 41 is not the best boat for out waters and wind.

MedSalor


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I like the lines of the swan 40, but there is nothing inherently special or renowned despite it being a s and s design...

alaska have you narrowed your list any? or is it getting bigger? jajajaja

Im thinking of other boats in this category...Im usually in the sub 30 frame of mind...


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom,

Those pics are incredibly helpful at keeping our wood mojo high around here while contemplating this. The spars kinda surprised us and we had a moment of doubt in our resolve. But those S&S beauties are just incredible. Have you seen pics of a RR40 restored? Actually I think you mentioned there was one in your marina in the past. Hey, why not a pic of one.










But if you want a wood boat here on the west coast, your search is likely to take you to a Kettenburg. We have sure eyed this 50 in our weaker moments.










And it is for sale! 
1963 Kettenburg Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Thanks really though for the encouraging words. I have still quite fallen for that Offshore.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Wish I had known you liked this kind of boat. The Formosa 41 is basically a sister ship, and I had the only one around with nice aluminum spars.
> 
> Unless you have lots of offshore plans though, the Formosa/CT 41 is not the best boat for out waters and wind.
> 
> MedSalor


We do in an aesthetic way but we know it doesn't fit the sailing program for the short or long term. Love to look though, they are homey and beautiful.

Did you replace your spars or was it ordered that way from the factory?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> I like the lines of the swan 40, but there is nothing inherently special or renowned despite it being a s and s design...
> 
> alaska have you narrowed your list any? or is it getting bigger? jajajaja
> 
> Im thinking of other boats in this category...Im usually in the sub 30 frame of mind...


Keep in mind the list is really for fun while in Seattle and to "check" what we think we know about what we want. Seems like allowing some different boats in will help. Also, looking at boats is fun and practice in what to look for (at least for me it will be).

The truth is the list hasn't really changed from about day 3 of this thread. There are 2 boats, and they are the first two in the thread. Offshore and Fastnet.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I did find a shot of the local RR during spring commissioning in our harbor. A beautiful sailboat, I've admired OWL ever since.










In your search, I realize there are not many of these classic plastic hull/wood cabin, sailboats to choose from. Sitting on a solid glass deck while leaning against a mahogany cabin, is rare.










While we have a huge force of all wooden boats, there are 4 or 5 Alden Challengers in this area of the Maine coast so the glass/wood transitional boats of the 60's are popular.

Sometimes, it feels like Rockport Harbor is a floating museum. Wooden spars are a staple on the docks and on the water.










Then again, wooden boat construction is here to stay. It's adaptable, it's evolving, it's becoming a build of choice for many buyers and even bullders like Fontaine Group that had this 36'er built last year.

Must have been a successful collaboration as in the sheds right now is a 50' version of this Fontaine design. All wood, and soon to launch.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

alaska you have to remember the kettenburgs were wood racing boats, while eye candy they are quite lightly built

I had a thing for the k-38


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

I have a soft spot for the K43. We could make one of those work for sure.

But how's about this beauty for sale in Cali! An Alden Caravelle from 1971.










Now this would be a great boat to have in the family. Just plain pretty!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

alaska this boat caught my eye...RELIANCE 44 made in canada, well built and classic lines including a modified full keel

https://www.google.com.sv/search?q=...asoKoBA&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1525&bih=734&dpr=0.9

yes its balsa cored hull and deck but since it was well built there have been zero cases of that as an issue

they were sold as kits and some are super nice inside...with a nice offshore history and happy owners

they also seem well priced


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> alaska this boat caught my eye...RELIANCE 44 made in canada, well built and classic lines including a modified full keel
> 
> https://www.google.com.sv/search?q=...asoKoBA&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1525&bih=734&dpr=0.9
> 
> ...


Funny you should mention those. I was looking at a couple of them today in my ever expanding quest to have other boats to look at in case one of the dreams turns out to be a nightmare boat upon visitation.

I like the looks, flat deck and interior. Cored hull? Hmmm, I assume you mean above the waterline?

As another boat that came up today, a Mason 43. Jon E mentioned them early in the thread as an offset companionway and I finally ran into a couple on YW.










Some are setup with two bunks in the v-berth and that would be nice. Most aren't though.  Pretty boat though.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

I have another question for all of you as things move ahead here. 

Do you recommend a buyer's broker? Especially seeing as how I am so far from the transaction being in AK? Finally, any recommendations? Med? Any contact info?  (Edit: Just went back and found the name and company: Russ Mixner;West Yachts!)

What do you pay a buyer's broker? Does it work like a house the the two agents split the percentage between them?


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## Evongelo (Jul 17, 2014)

AlaskaMC said:


> Usually people ask for the sailnetters to talk them out of something. Hey! Talk us into it!


My opinion is purely aesthetics since I'm the newb and just beginning to learn about boats. However, you can't help but browse the listings and dream, and I believe I saw this very listing while doing so. I tell you that if I knew it was a good quality and I had the money, I'd be buying right up. But like I said, I'm just the newb sharing your aesthetic attraction to the boat.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Evongelo said:


> My opinion is purely aesthetics since I'm the newb and just beginning to learn about boats. However, you can't help but browse the listings and dream, and I believe I saw this very listing while doing so. I tell you that if I knew it was a good quality and I had the money, I'd be buying right up. But like I said, I'm just the newb sharing your aesthetic attraction to the boat.


Get out there and sail and climb around on boats. What leads me to these is now beyond just aesthetics and involves specific features above and below that we like. For us, flat clean decks. large cockpit (killing pilothouses for us ), a balanced main/jib rather than huge headsails (The CL uses a very large one as does the Ericson in our list), family friendly berths, etc. Then we have to love it. We have developed a list of features, we check that first, then we allow our eyes to focus and see if it grabs the heart. When we fail and do this backwards we sometimes find ourselves trying to shoehorn a boat without what we want/need because of how beautiful it looks on the water.

Have fun and go sailing. What you like for real will come into quick focus.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> Funny you should mention those. I was looking at a couple of them today in my ever expanding quest to have other boats to look at in case one of the dreams turns out to be a nightmare boat upon visitation.
> 
> I like the looks, flat deck and interior. Cored hull? Hmmm, I assume you mean above the waterline?
> 
> ...


Crap! What is that, like a 180% Genoa?!!!

Yes, Russ Mixner of West Yachts. He's a used car salesman through and through but the man can buy and sell boats. He's the guy who called me up and told me my dream boat was a money-pit and that I should walk away on the day of closing. Turned out to be the best piece of advice ever. My endorsement of him isn't 100% though, but the details aren't easy to put in a post. I'll explain it to you in a PM, or on the phone, or over a beer.

The good news is that you don't have to pay a buying broker a penny. The SELLER pays 10% commission for selling their boat. If you bring a buying broker to the table then the selling broker has to split that 50-50 with the buying broker. Nothing to do with you, and you get your own, invested, paid, advocate. Frankly I'm not sure why anyone would just go up to a listing broker and buy a boat. Bring your own man to the table!

MedSailor


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

The Alden Caravelle's are nice old boats. That traditional layout but with the extra volume in the 42' boat. Strong boats, good sailors.

Finished at different yards, some had a glass cabin, some wood. Here's one, wood cabin, I snapped in our harbor.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Another plus of some of these older boats like the Caravelles, Challenger, Rhodes Reliants, they're somewhat obscure and limited in numbers.

Without the following that boats like older Hinckley's have, the prices are much lower.

When I bought my Challenger 15 years ago, a surveyor compared it as an affordable alternative to the B40. 'Where can you get that much boat, for 25% of the cost.

I paid 30k for my boat that needed attention, but was sail away ready and equipped.

Compare the Alden Caravelle at 65k asking to a B40, twice+ asking price. Or even an early Hinckly SW 42. The Caravelle is a lot of boat for the money.

A Bermuda 40 in Cabot Cove on Northhaven Island in Penobscot Bay, Maine.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the bermudas are just so overpriced! I agree...with the comments above...there are more obscure and better deals out there for a very similar, equal if not better for your likes and preferenced than a b40.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> Another plus of some of these older boats like the Caravelles, Challenger, Rhodes Reliants, they're somewhat obscure and limited in numbers.
> 
> Without the following that boats like older Hinckley's have, the prices are much lower.
> 
> ...


I agree and in most cases I prefer them to the B40s, although they are very nice as well.

Wasn't Jessica Fletcher the famous detective from Cabot Cove? Musta been a pretty scary place to live back in her day. 

Seriously though, wish this was on our side of the map so I could go take a gander.

Rhodes Bounty II 1957









Must have been one of the very first FB yachts in the world.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yup...those are slow though...


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

If you decide to go with a wooden boat, talk to me first so you can benefit from my experience. I can recommend a good bilge pump setup and an even better therapist. 

Medsailor


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

hog wash!
(friendly fighting here not trying to offend jajaja)

btw alaska there is a nice k43 on yachtworld now...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

hey you can go crazy 1950s wood racer by giles
CLASICO UNICO LAURENT GILES en Girona | Veleros de ocasión 27840

I went on this boat many times with the catalan family while in the south pacific..we met in hiva oa...and lo and behold found it for sale back in spain...this thing was a monster...look at the underbody! jajajajaja crazy fast!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> hey you can go crazy 1950s wood racer by giles
> CLASICO UNICO LAURENT GILES en Girona | Veleros de ocasión 27840
> 
> I went on this boat many times with the catalan family while in the south pacific..we met in hiva oa...and lo and behold found it for sale back in spain...this thing was a monster...look at the underbody! jajajajaja crazy fast!


Now that is just purdy! Here is a pic










And if you mean the FG one in the Seattle area, yep. I will go look at that when the time comes for sure.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> If you decide to go with a wooden boat, talk to me first so you can benefit from my experience. I can recommend a good bilge pump setup and an even better therapist.
> 
> Medsailor


Nope, we haven't gone quite that far over yet but FG and Wood?, getting likelier by the day!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

AlaskaMC said:


> Now that is just purdy! Here is a pic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


have a link to the glass one?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

K41, not a 43, but an interesting option none the less. I am looking forward to seeing this one as it could be a diamond in the rough.










1967 Kettenburg K41 Fiberglass Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Truth is that the CL and the Fastnet are still FAR ahead of everything else we have found that is close enough to be purchasable for us. Shipping + a trip up the inside passage will make boats in this $ range a bit much so we are trying to keep it in Washington. We are making the educated guess that the two won't be so far off in $ once a couple projects are done on the CL that may be needed. All this could just go down the tubes upon inspection of course.

But, another piece fell into place this morning for this to all go down this winter for a Summer 2015 sail back home. Set my work up so that fall/winter will be hell but spring will be open for travel to Washington for projects and shakedowns and sumer will be all mine.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

We watched an old Block Island 40 sail by last weekend. It was one of the few boats under sail in winds that stayed in the 0 to 5 knot range the entire time.










And I don't mean to boast, but we spent a lot of time sailing as well in the 0 to 5 knot winds. Although we didn't cover many miles, we enjoyed being under sail, immensely.

We have a secret weapon this season, a new mainsail. While I ordered full battens mostly for ease of furling, I found that being able to set the shape(it's loose footed), a stiff full draft, we found wind-a bit easier than before(old main), in these light conditions.










There were racers under sail in the light conditions. Here's a fleet of H 12 1/2, a design that is 100 years old this season. They were joined by Lasers, and everybody was sailing.

We 'slowed down' furling our 135% genoa. Our old boat does quite well off the wind, on main alone. She's very docile and maneuverable, self tending, for picking up a mooring, laying down and anchor, or watching a race. No vang needed in the light air, 18' of spruce does the trick.










We met a few boats under sail, we past a larger racing boat, slowly, that was crewed by a bunch having fun, sails poorly set.

And a trimaran walked by us, nearly doubling our 2 knots of speed.

A schooner motored by as we tacked through this narrow spot in the Fox Island Thoroughfare.

They had a schedule.

We had life in the telltales, and enough time on our hands to enjoy steady windward progress, with bursts of speed approaching 3 knots!  It was fantastic sailing!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

beautiful new sails...awesome!


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## rgp (Jul 20, 2005)

The first one is owned by a couple that we meet on the west side of Vancouver Island a couple of years ago, and have become friends with. It's a nice boat.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

A fully battened main can be a secret weapon in light air. It holds its shape waiting to make efficient use of a zephyr whereas a main with partial battens needs the strength of the zephyr to fill out it's shape first. 

MedSailor


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

All this talk of light winds. ARRRRGGGHHHH 

I had my first light wind day 8 to 10 knots yesterday for maybe 6 months. Out here in the Eastern Caribbean it seems that every passage has had 20 - 25 knots so reefed main and staysai alone.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

TQA said:


> All this talk of light winds. ARRRRGGGHHHH
> 
> I had my first light wind day 8 to 10 knots yesterday for maybe 6 months. Out here in the Eastern Caribbean it seems that every passage has had 20 - 25 knots so reefed main and staysai alone.


Do you want to swap? 
sure, we have light winds now
July, still summer
Ausgust is close
September .. time to move up to the hard
Then .... launch in May.

So, what do you say? Swap, or not?

Best

J


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

light winds...aaaaah same here, fluky is a better term...

makes me miss the clock work speed and times of san francisco wind patterns...

summer winds hell yeah 30 knots every afternoon no ifs and buts....

winter go chill and have warmer weather(less chill factor from the wind) in calm condition, sip some cocoa and watch the fog clear over the hills...

nothing like steady weather to sail and plan by


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


>


Thanks Tom. Well timed once again. A trip is now being setup for going down and checking out the OS40 in person. Looks like a sail may even happen. Now that would be nice.

Love that pic of your boom out there. Could a painted boom be stripped and finished bright?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

rgp said:


> The first one is owned by a couple that we meet on the west side of Vancouver Island a couple of years ago, and have become friends with. It's a nice boat.


Thanks for the good word. I am working on seeing the boat now and getting together with them for a sail. I hope it all works out. They are very nice folks.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Jaramaz said:


> Do you want to swap?
> sure, we have light winds now
> July, still summer
> Ausgust is close
> ...


Nope you can keep that cold stuff.

I retired here where it is endless summer and can I sail year round with water temp never much below 80f. I do have foul weather gear..... somewhere.

But it is just that this year seems to have had far more reinforced trades than normal. So it has been beam reaching up and down island in 20 - 25 knots. Totally freaks out charters from places like the Chesapeake.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

We have been thinking of this all wrong and have now found the perfect boat. Enough accommodations for the whole family, more beam than my current boat has length, comes with a proper sea going couch (not a silly settee) and is in our budget.

See what came up at the top of my daily YW search today.



















If you dare 1984 50 Custom Trimaran Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Seriously though, anyone ever see a Tri like that? Seems more like a floating house than the usual amas full of fun and speed that most tris are.

Trying to arrange boat visit trip number one right now. Looking like I will be down there in a week or two as I can combine it with a work trip.

EDIT: Since sarcasm doesn't have a digital equivalent, no we are not looking at this boat.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

ja!


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

AlaskaMC said:


> We have been thinking of this all wrong and have now found the perfect boat. Enough accommodations for the whole family, more beam than my current boat has length, comes with a proper sea going couch (not a silly settee) and is in our budget.
> 
> EDIT: Since sarcasm doesn't have a digital equivalent, no we are not looking at this boat.




Alaska, Cats or Tris are not bad for living _or_ for sailing, but it use to be difficult to combine, ie to get good both living and sailing.

When I see the other prospects you suggest, I suspect boat buying budget is an important factor - isn't it always? Thus you have a tendency to look for older boats, it seems. These ... requires a lot of maintenance, which is not free.

I have been sailing wooden boats for more than 20 years. Don't go there - it is a minefield for those unused to wooden boats maintenance (not that you cannot do it, but it is more & different work than GRP).

Old boat interiors are usually not so efficienct as modern interiors. Also boat designers have developed their skills. I suggest you consider how you would like to live on the boat: 2 kids, 2 parents, ... that would point in the direction of 3 cabins + a common saloon.

Smack started a thread on his boat selection, all the stages he went through. It is actually very instructive ... he ended up with a 25 year old Hunter 40, which he got for a good price. Not saying you should go for a Hunter 40, but boats like that are within reach - there are many similar, with a lot of variation.

Best

J


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Yep, know the thread well and have read it front to back. In fact a 40 Legend would fit a lot of our needs for sure. Our budget is more fluid than this thread suggests and there are boats we are looking at that are more in line with your suggestion but we haven't made up our mind yet for sure. The Offshore is truly a matter of love of a design that actually could work very well for a family. You bring up the obvious difficulty. While we may end up in a production boat, we are still going to consider the options. I am privileged to do the maintenance on many things of beauty in my life, where there are much easier and more practical solutions. Sometimes I take those simpler solutions and love their ease of use and practicality.

But they rarely leave one feeling like looking at this...









But to be fair, we could end up in something such as this...









Or maybe we bite the bullet and just buy one of these...









Who knows. The Offshore is a design we love and a boat that has seen very good attention in its life. We are not looking at it as a cost saver to say the least. Thanks for the thoughts and we consider them every day for sure. We may end up in a production boat (Catalina 42s currently leading the way) but we sure love the classics.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

AlaskaMC said:


> She is up here in AK and in seemingly good condition.


Uh, take a very, very close look at that boat before thinking serious about it.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Jaramaz said:


> Old boat interiors are usually not so efficienct as modern interiors. Also boat designers have developed their skills. I suggest you consider how you would like to live on the boat: 2 kids, 2 parents, ... that would point in the direction of 3 cabins + a common saloon.
> 
> J


I agree with that. Old boat designs, foot for foot compared to new designs, are not as efficient to live aboard. Older boats in the 40' range were designed to sail-race with a crew of 4+ adults.

Sea berths took priority over double berths, galleys were tighter and built for basic use underway, stowage took the space under low decks and cockpits, narrower passages below(they were narrower boats).

Good for offshore sailing or 'coasting' with a crew, where the boat is underway often.

Not so good for weeks-months tied to a dock, servicing as a dwelling. These same old designs are cramped compared to open plan newer designs with wide galleys, broad saloons, big queen sized double berths and spacious heads.

I think you need more length in an old boat to compare to newer designs, for living aboard. Say 50' to compare to 40', etc.

But if you use the boat for sailing with a family, coasting for a season, a winter 'down south', the old designs, with an experienced family, work very well.

ELIZA is one of the 36' Ted Hood racing designs of the 60's. Mostly wooden hulls, some were built in glass. Not a good liveaboard but a great coaster for a family.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

man what a rear end jejeje

I have a thing for looks it has to have something that catches your eye every time, that ca be the decks or the stern or the entry of the bow or the rake of the mast, or varnish or the tiller 

just something...even if its the best performer or all around cruiser etc if it doesnt have some eye candy somewhere its a no go for me...

good luck alaska


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

sailak said:


> Uh, take a very, very close look at that boat before thinking serious about it.


Don't worry, not really on our list. Thanks for the heads up though.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

When are you coming down to look at all these beauties? 

MedSailor


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> ...


Now that is a sweet looking behind! Nice boat. Is there a name to that design?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> When are you coming down to look at all these beauties?
> 
> MedSailor


Decision to be made today. I am trying to plan a trip down the weekend of the 9-10th and milk run back to AK on the 11-15th for work. If it works out then I can just add a weekend to a trip I will already do anyway.

Can I PM you when I get the flights made and it is a for sure? Would love to meet for a beer and boat talk!


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> Can I PM you when I get the flights made and it is a for sure? Would love to meet for a beer and boat talk!


Of course! Doesn't take much arm twisting to get me to drink beer and talk about boats! 

MedSailor


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

AlaskaMC said:


> Is there a name to that design?


I think ELIZA is one of the Ted Hood Little Harbor 37's.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> man what a rear end jejeje
> 
> I have a thing for looks it has to have something that catches your eye every time, that ca be the decks or the stern or the entry of the bow or the rake of the mast, or varnish or the tiller
> 
> ...


When I made my last boat purchase, the boat I really wanted was a Cheoy Lee 41. My wife (ex-wife now) didn't think it had enough room and that it needed too much work. We are divorced now, and I now have the boat she picked out.

There is a moral to this story, maybe more than one, but the main one is, boats over broads.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

And the arrangements are made. Will be in Seattle area for the 23/24 and a bit of the 25th as well. Now I have to figure a way to get around and see these boats!

Anyone have a recommendation on a good hotel near the docks for Sat night? I get in way late.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> And the arrangements are made. Will be in Seattle area for the 23/24 and a bit of the 25th as well. Now I have to figure a way to get around and see these boats!
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation on a good hotel near the docks for Sat night? I get in way late.


Which docks? Anacortes? Seattle? What part of Seattle?

MedSailor


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Sent you a PM but it will be Seattle Yachts first in the Saturday AM. Then who knows how to proceed. I want to make it up your way and over to Pt. Ludlow of course.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Hey everyone. I have another boat we wanna see and from the land of the Northwest for a change. There are a few of these in the area for sale and I had never looked at them until tonight.

A Fraser 41, anyone know much about these. Pretty to my eye and look to be well built.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Hull looks nice. Is it somewhat narrow? 

Issues to consider:
- MH, what is the genua size and how does it work with the winches? (they look small ...). 
- main sheet traveler on the rooftop, ok (noting in the cockpit), but where does the main sheet ends. Does it work for a helmsman single in the cockpit?
- it doesn't look like a fast boat. OK, we are not going sailing if we want to go fast, but it is never nice the be the last one. 
- cockpit looks somewhat spartan. How much more is needed? Further winches? Sprayhood? 
- personally I never like these horrible things some people put up at the stern for carrying antennas, solar panels, ... 

interior: 
- surprisingly small for a 41', or is it just the pics?
- one sleeping bed in the forecastle and one under the cockpit? No more? 
- aft bed is open to the cabin, is this on the wish list?
- ventilation in the aft bed is crucial (often not sufficient).

Of course I have no own experience of these (not where I live) ... understand that you find them interesting. I was a bit surprised by the asked price, but that is a matter for discussion.

/J


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

NICE boat....Ive seen a couple and heard of them...however no inside hand son experience

but I seem to remember they have a reputation for being well built.

ok...douglas cook is the designer and apparently they were sold as kits and or complete hulls so like many others some were owener finished and depending on how you might get an awesome deal on one!

man alaska you are into a lot of the same boats and likes that I have...

love this thread!

ps. thread on here with some good info
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/orphan-brands/40359-fraser-built-sailboats-2.html

here is one
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/Fraser-Sloop-2493298/Vancouver/Canada#.U9zwg2N7M6E

spade rudder


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Great link sir! They sure do seem to be well loved by their owners. Well, one more to look at when down south. I love looking at boats!


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

If you spend all summer looking for the right boat, you can spend a lot of summers sailing the right boat. Both time well spent.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Capt Len said:


> If you spend all summer looking for the right boat, you can spend a lot of summers sailing the right boat. Both time well spent.


That is exactly our thoughts and approach in our search. Try not to limit ourselves by a particular boat or brand. Instead we have a list of features, sailing wants, etc some of which are not negotiable. If a boat meets them, we see if it has that "special something" that Christian referred to earlier that makes us want to see it.

It makes for an interesting list. Believe it or not we are talking about putting up a whiteboard war board in my office to start tracking pros and cons complete with printed pics. It will look like a crime drama with yachts.

It may seem like we are all over the place but we are intentionally keeping lust from driving us into a decision we will later regret. See as much as possible and be open that we may like something we don't expect.

Will we buy a boat that is well cared for but needs some projects? Or will we spend a bit more to have those projects already done? Or, will we break and fall into something more along the lines of a major production boat of some sort. We are just trying to keep our minds open and have fun. 

And since threads like this live on pretty pics. Had a broker pushing hints at one of these the other day to my wife. A Mayflower! Now that is what I call a cruiser!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Ok, that just left everyone speechless. But hey, at 66,000# who is going to argue.

But to get back on track with Offshores as I will be seeing one soon now I hope. Check this out. What happens when you mix a Fastnet and an OffShore? A Lueders Offshore 47. Nice!










This is a beautiful boat that someone seems to have put some time into. Wish it was in Seattle to look at but alas it is further south.

1973 Cheoy Lee Offshore Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## snaporaz66 (Jul 30, 2014)

beautiful boats!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Well here is a classic. Nice big flat decks, classic style, Alden good looks etc. Sails might be a bit much to handle by myself or with the family and it does have some wood, and it might stretch the budget a bit...










Schooner Dauntless

Heading down to see the boats in a couple weeks. I will update everyone and have some pics when I get back. Hopefully with good news on at least 1.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Lots of deck for storage of fire wood for winter cruising but where do you shuck the oysters?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

alaska thought you were quiet cause you were enjoying a new boat already! jajajaja

kidding

good luck


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Nope, not even enjoying the Mac right now. We went to pull it to another location to go sailing and the winds were in the 40s and taking the mast down seemed like a poor idea at the time. So, SV Cake sits lonely waiting for our return.

On the buying front it won't actually happen until sometime late fall/winter/spring. I am starting today on a hell like work contract that will make the boat/trip possible but I will be away from family for a couple months minimum. You guys will be stuck with me though, as internet access is part of my gig.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Final addition to the list of boats that I am going to go visit this weekend in Seattle and a bouts. A Tartan 37 FIN Keel! We don't need no stinking centerboards up here 










1980 Tartan 37 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Repowered, newer sails, and seems like a dang nice boat for a family of 4 for the price. Anyone got thoughts on the sailing on these? They seem to be very well liked for sure.

Can't wait for the trip though. Got the OS40, Fastnet, a Cal 39, and a La Fitte that we really have high hopes for as I have found tons of info on the boat (the specific boat) and it has a cool history. We will see if these or and others have what it takes to become our future. Right now we are leaning very much towards one boat in our hearts but I won't mention which one as we are trying hard to keep our hearts out of this for the next faze, elimination. Reality can be disheartening to say the least after looking at posed pics in an ad.

On another topic, can anyone guess where these pics were taken? Here are some clues. State of Alaska. Island. Can only get there on a few days a week. Ringo and John didn't get credit even get credit on these islands only their fellow band members. And where I am could be called Sir I suppose.


















Just got back from here for a few days. Incredibly cool place with the nicest people you can imagine. Very cool harbor, history, and culture. Gotta sail a boat in here one day. Summer would be best.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

a lot of russian orthodox churches on it?

nice tartan 37 option and agree non cb

ps Ill take a guess UNIMAK ISLAND?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> a lot of russian orthodox churches on it?
> 
> nice tartan 37 option and agree non cb


Ah, getting warm maybe. But only 1 church on the island. And it is absolutely beautiful.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

aleutian chain or other?

*unalaska?*


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Nope. Think Deadliest Catch unless the ice locks in the island.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

AlaskaMC said:


> Nope. Think Deadliest Catch unless the ice locks in the island.


st paul island?
(would make the beatle refference make sense jajaja)


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

We have a winner!!! What an incredible place. I am lucky to be able to work there on occasion.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

AlaskaMC said:


> We have a winner!!! What an incredible place. I am lucky to be able to work there on occasion.


hate to quote an obvious phrase but alaska and its islands are on my sailing bucket list...

maybe after I get over this raising a kid, work and land life over with

peace bud

and congrats on being able to visit those places

best luck on the boat search front


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## UPHILL (Dec 22, 2010)

St. Paul island, taking a wild guess..


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

In my work I am visiting 35+ remote communities in the next 3 months or so. Next week is SE with Ketchikan, Wrangell, Juneau, Kake, Sitka and Angoon. How's that for a week of travel? The next week I head north, FAR NORTH!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

AlaskaMC said:


> In my work I am visiting 35+ remote communities in the next 3 months or so. Next week is SE with Ketchikan, Wrangell, Juneau, Kake, Sitka and Angoon. How's that for a week of travel? The next week I head north, FAR NORTH!


need a helper?:laugher


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Well, boat viewing done. LOTS of them removed from the list. But, the originals are still in the fight with one new one added. Now, who can tell me what this boat is?  One of you isn't allowed to guess since it wouldn't be much of a guess...


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Perry pilot house. Photo taken in front of shilshole. Looks to be about "m" dock... I looked at that boat but it didn't have good sleeping accommodations for the whole troop. Nice boat though. 

Med


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Cheater! 

Yep, very nice boat and yes, that is Shilshole. We are still back and forth on if this next boat will be the long term cruising boat (which would be the Fastnet or some such similar setup) or an Alaska only boat to be replaced when the big trip gets here (CL40 or this boat right now)

We are a family that camps in small tents and we had a tear drop trailer that we all slept in together (2 6' adults, 1 kid, 2 LARGE dogs.). This boat would be great for cruising PWS in the summer and shoulder months but wouldn't do for the sail away boat for the same reason you all mentioned. 

Some non boating related factors will be the decider in the next couple months as we move the plans forward. Then again, when my better half goes looking with me I really think that will help focus the lens so to speak. Remember, I was only to reject things due to lack of upkeep to shrink the list. And this boat is in nice shape to say the least and just got a price drop making it very hard to ignore. A PH in Alaska just can't be ignored and this one should be able to sail nicely.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> Cheater!
> 
> Yep, very nice boat and yes, that is Shilshole. We are still back and forth on if this next boat will be the long term cruising boat (which would be the Fastnet or some such similar setup) or an Alaska only boat to be replaced when the big trip gets here (CL40 or this boat right now)
> 
> ...


AMEN brother. If you can make the accomodations work for you, I'd snap that boat up in a heartbeat on one condition. Can you actually see from the wheel in the pilothouse? This is a major failing of many pilothouse boats. Even my NC40 has marginal visibility from below. Barely enough for us to call it adequate. From the looks of it you likely can see. The genoa is on a pennant as well which should help. Must be a good designer at work....

You sure don't have to sell ME on the advantages of a pilothouse up here! I can only imagine that the advantages of the pilothouse multiply quickly the further north you get. That and diesel heat, and a warm place to get out of the cold... like a sauna for example. 

MedSailor


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

The view from the inside wheel is fantastic. Also, the electronics are nicely setup to see both inside and out. Here is the view...










The layout is definitely different, but seems like it would really work up here. Oh, and she's purdy. 

We are in the holding pattern now until I finish a giant work project that involves a massive amount of travel. I have already been in 12 remote Alaska villages so far and have 16 to go as a minimum and more likely something like 25. When that is done, we are coming down for a good week or two and hopefully making a decision. I know that stepping onto the boats made for a quick decision for me and I think it will for Steph as well. Being in a space yourself puts things in perspective fast.


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## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

AlaskaMC said:


> The view from the inside wheel is fantastic. Also, the electronics are nicely setup to see both inside and out. Here is the view...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I looked at that boat on Yachtworld...she's beautiful. Having not been aboard, I couldn't tell if the hull shape or engine space would allow you to drop that 2nd berth lower. Seems like an option if you gave-up the storage/tankage/or whatever is below. A little headroom would go a long way!


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

funjohnson said:


> I looked at that boat on Yachtworld...she's beautiful. Having not been aboard, I couldn't tell if the hull shape or engine space would allow you to drop that 2nd berth lower. Seems like an option if you gave-up the storage/tankage/or whatever is below. A little headroom would go a long way!


Actually, you would be surprised about the headroom under there. The birth is huge and has much more room than the pics would reveal. It is a very nice boat to say the least.


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

First off, let me identify myself as the owner of Tai-Pan, the person who covered her deck with Restore, and give you my explanation and comments.
It might sound crazy to use a new, unknown product like Restore on that cosmetic teak deck, but don't be fooled into believing it's a bad idea or a bad product, just because it's new and never been done before. Even though the deck was in fine shape and could have lasted many more years here in Pacific NW, I was planning on sailing her to Philippines, and that meant that her teak deck needed to either be removed completely or covered with some unknown product. 
Being a member if the Rhodes Reliant and Offshore 40 group for many years, taught me that covering these decks had never been successful with any product known to man, until I found Restore, which just may be what we've been looking for to save these decks without having to replace them. 
I had read previously that people have been painting teak decks in the tropics for many years with white latex paint to cool and protect the decks, which would wear off after a year. So this new deck covering product that is claimed to adhere to redwood/cedar decks, looked like a possibility and worth a try. Sure Tai-Pan would no longer show the pretty cosmetic teak deck, but that was only for show anyway, and never was that pretty once it became dark, and it would be too hot to walk on in the tropics. While this new deck covering looks much better, it is also much cooler to the touch even on a very hot day, keeps the cabin cooler, and looks much cleaner and brighter. 
Granted, applying this product over the original corner caulking was not a good idea if I planned to sell her. but for sailing across the Pacific I figured it couldn't hurt anything. I changed my mind about sailing her to the Philippines after flying to the Philippines and moving into the mountains with my new girl friend, who can't swim and is not interested in sailing.
I have since redone along the edges and the entire deck is now chalked beautifully and adhering to the teak excellent after two years of application. As Restore ages, it also turns rock hard and provides very good gripping on deck. I agree doing this scared off many potential buyers, who were unfamiliar with this product, but I think time is proving it to be a blessing for these cosmetic teak decks.
I have just returned from Philippines to sell Tai-Pan and will put her back up for sale this week at a price that should make somebody very happy.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks for the write up on the product. I'm going to have to do something with my decks as well. 

Was your teak caulking shrunken and standing proud above the teak? Mine is which makes me think that I can't just paint over it with a product.


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

No, the teak chalking was not standing up proud. Most of the deck looks flat and it is difficult to tell there is teak underneath. In a few places however, like behind the cabin where the deck is rounded upwards, some of the chaulking lines are still barely visable. 
Don't plan on covering up any defects with Restore. Even though it is a thick substance, with some sort of sand in it, you are better off smoothing your deck down nice before the application. Each coat helps hide those lines if you are concerned with the lines being visable. I put eight thin coats on my deck, only because I was changing colors, but it helped hide those lines also. 
If I was to do it again, I would sand down any caulking smooth with the deck before application.
Good luck and just make sure your deck is very clean before application. 
I think i scrubbed the deck first with detergent and amonia. Then rubbed it down in acetone to pull any oily remnats. Applied Restore with medium nap roller and top brushed in one direction.
I was pleased to see how nice it looks after eight winter months exposed in the PNW. Sure, there was some green growing along the edges when i got back, but a little scrub down with detergent and vinegar cleaned it right up.
I later added a fresh wash down coat (1/3 gal. of Restore ($8.00 worth), mixed with two 2-4 parts water, and now her deck looks sweet again.
I might also mention that I honestly have not found any separation problems with this product in contact with Teak. And that is a giant PLUS.


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

Because I am once again putting Tai-Pan on the market and I'm no longer planning to sail her to Asia, I've begun removing that Restore deck covering product in order to prove to potential buyers that Tai-Pan's deck is in really good condition.
Putting Restore on these decks may be a great way to go if you are planning on sailing to the tropics, but for here in the PNW it's not necessary.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Knocking back the proud caulking with a sanding grinder is easy work if you are planning to coat it. Some coats are enhanced by including a nylon screen ((think windows) to prevent cracking or bulging.


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

I removed the Restore covering today and now I'm glad I did. Though it was holding very well in most places, it was separating in various low spots because of moisture accumulation. Now that I've done this I must say it was the biggest mistake of my life. I could have sold her several times last year had she not had her decks covered. Thank God I removed this Restore product before any damage was done -- like rot or mold. All is well now though. Teak is a remarkable and amazing natural substance. And I love it. 
Conclusion to story: Avoid covering your teak decks with anything that won't allow it to breath. 
I've always added linseed oil mixed w turpintine to my decks, but it makes the wood so dark, tho it eventually dries out. I also read that linseed oil feeds fungus, which explains why I need to wash my decks twice a year during the rainy season. I think I may just keep them well cocked and leave the alone for now on.
Thanks for all the comments on this thread guys. Even tho I didn't start the thread, it was originally about my boat and had a lot helpful information for perspective future owners (caretakers). I still love this boat and wonder if I'm making the right decision giving it up gor a full time life in the Philippines.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^Big mistake. Sail it to the PI. The LBFM's can wait.


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

And then what? Once Im in PI? I anchor it in one of the few anchoring spots that are protected from the wind, then I have to leave it anchored, unattended, while I go off to the mountains? Not to mention there is no place to buy parts and it takes months to get there frm here, if Im lucky enough to survive the journey. Sure, once there it would be fun to island hop, but that can be a huge problem too, with nets everywhere and few protected anchorages. If u want to venture south during the rainy season, you get to deal with pirates. How long would I last? Not to mention that my gf is deathly afraid of the ocean, gets sea sick on a 30 minute bus ride, and cant swim three feet.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^yep, you better stick to land. Plenty of great protected anchorages all over the PI....


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## dancamp (Aug 20, 2007)

"lots of good safe anchorages in PI"? That is not what I've come to realize and I've been studying this for a couple years. But as this post demonstrates clearly -- I'm not always right.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

dancamp said:


> "lots of good safe anchorages in PI"? That is not what I've come to realize and I've been studying this for a couple years. But as this post demonstrates clearly -- I'm not always right.


I only mentioned it because I ACTUALLY sailed there. What a wonderful cruising grounds the PI is. Too bad or maybe it's good that it is not on the voyaging sailors list of places to explore.

Remote anchorages, kind people, interesting topography, easily attainable fresh fruit and veggies, cold beers for a song, lovely ladies and a non jaded attitude towards the small boat voyager.

Hey, enjoy yourself in the mountains. We will cruise the PI again!


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