# Dodger Sticker Shock!



## TSOJOURNER

Just became the proud owner of a Ericson 34 located in the San Francisco Bay area. It came without a dodger and since the Summer winds here can be quite robust, I figured my first purchase would be a dodger. Called some ads I saw in Lat 38 and a few numbers the harbor master gave me for a quote and STICKER SHOCK! Prices ran from $2800 to $3500. At least twice what I thought it would be. Yes I did want 1” SS tubing and cover panels for the windows and ok grab rails on the side but still $3500! 
So I am looking for other options. Has anybody seen and tried dodger kits or ‘do it your self kits’ or how hard was it to make your own? Any great web sites that may help?
Input will be much appreciated.


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## PBzeer

While the price may seem high at first glance, it doesn't seem that out of line with the work required.


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## Sapperwhite

Thats close to what I've been quoted. Same specs; 1" stainless, full covers, connecting panel to bimini, hand holds, etc etc. If you have a sewing machine and are good, you can do it yourself. But if you had a sewing machine you probably wouldn't be asking this question.


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## TSOJOURNER

And a Bimini will cost you almost as much if you decide to add one.


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## Rockter

Well let's see.
$3500 ? I could buy about 7 sets of wet weather gear and 15 umbrellas.


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## genieskip

I've just run into the same problem. Following advice on this website I looked up Sailrite.com and I think I'm going to go that way. They have sewing machines, instructional videos and kits as well as all the other materials needed for canvas work. Just what I need, another hobby. 

The truth is, I bought a boat new to me last fall that needs tons of canvas work, probably as much or more than ten grand. I can cut that to about one third by making my own, and since I'm retired, I have the time. The bimini I want has been quoted to me at between $2K and $3K. The kit sells for $705, everything included. I'm sure it won't be easy, and the sewing machine costs $850 up front, but I should recover that on the bimini alone.


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## btrayfors

Some price points:

I have a 42' sloop and have replaced dodger (in 2004) and built a new bimini frame and top (1994) while in the BVI. Costs were:

Bimini frame - BVI $400 1994
Bimini top - BVI $572 1994
Dodger - Annapolis $1485 2004

A pic of both can be seen here: Gallery :: Miscellaneous 2007 :: SBF_0126

As can be seen in the pic, they're both still in good condition after 14 years and 4 years, respectively. The Bimini top has been restitched once (in 2004, when the Dodger was built).

The first quote for a Bimini frame in the BVI was well over $1,200. I got a "second opinion" and went to a local metal shop, run by a Brit, and known to be good. Tony came down to the boat, measured, said he could build and install a good frame for $400. Two days later it was done.

Moral: shop around.

Bill


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## Maine Sail

*Some things to consider..*

Read this to gain a better understanding of what a custom made dodger entails..
Hale Kai Dodger Project

The price is in line with the amount of work required. Oh and I would suggest not wasting your money on a pre-fab dodger. You want a custom made dodger or you most likely won't be happy. Custom made will run about 20% more but be well worth it...

Here are some questions to ask:

*Tubing:* You want 316 thick wall! Not type 304 thin wall. All 1" or 7/8" stainless tubing is NOT the same.

*Thread:* You WANT a thread that will last as long as the Sunbrella. W.L. Gore's Tenara is the only thread that will do this..

*Grab Rail's:* Side and cockpit make sure the cockpit rail is welded on.
*
Windows:* Strataglass or equivalent. All 30 mil and 40 mil windows are NOT created equal!

*Center Window:* A full zip out window is a great option as you can lay it in the v-berth to prevent scratching the glass. Rolling windows up is one of the worst things you can do for dodger glass.
*
Design:* Your canvas guy should spend time with you ON the boat and then design the dodger to YOUR preferences. For example; do you want to look under the dodger or look over the top. When the frame is bent this data needs to be there or you'll be staring at the dodger frame when standing a the helm. Have your dodger built so you NEVER need to fold it. Folding a dodger is the single worst thing you can do for it!!

*Lapels: *Every exposed zipper MUST be covered by a lapel! A lapel is like the fly on your pants that covers the zipper. On a dodger it prevents UV damage!

*Deck Attachment:* Most builders use Lift-A-Dot's or Twist Locks to attach the canvas to the deck. This can create un even pulls in the canvas and eventually, after enough hot sun, the glass. You'll want to consider a luff tape attachment system. This plastic track can be heated with a heat gun and custom bent to match the contour of your deck. The dodger has a corresponding luff tape sewn across the entire front bottom edge that is slid into the luff track.
*Best!*








*Better:*








* Mediocre:*









*Frame Support:* If you have a hand rail you want support struts that attach the frame to the cockpit coaming to distribute the loads.
* No grab rail or support struts:*








* Well done grab rail with support struts:*









Use a LOCAL shop that does good work and let the price sink in for a bit..! A well designed and constructed dodger will out last a poorly built one by close to double! Loose fabric, that can flap in the wind, will DESTROY Sunbrella in short order!

* A good example of a BAD (Mail Order) dodger:*








* An example of a good dodger (same boat):*









A dodger can make or break the looks and aesthetics of your boat and IMHO it's not a place to cut corners! BTW here's a picture of that same dodger taken last summer after adding side grab rails. It was six year's old when this photo was taken..












If you feel like setting the bar really high, after reading this thread, take a look at this canvas work!

Mobile Marine Canvas Photo Gallery


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## TSOJOURNER

Don't forget to add a zipper at the back end so you can attach a Bimini later. You also need to incorporate zipper covers in the design.


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## chucklesR

Laser,
I think, as the other posters have shown, that you got a fairly common price. It's a bunch of custom work and many man hours of labor.
If making your own is an option go for it. We have a bunch of places here that sell used gear - look around you may find a used frame that is purpose made for your boat, and used frayed dodgers can be used for patterns.


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## sailingdog

That price is pretty much in line with most of the prices I've seen for canvas work. As others have said, it really isn't a place to skimp and having a good dodger on the boat can make it a lot more comfortable.


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## Giulietta

I sell you mine for $1000...want it????

Maybe I can get rid of it, say it was stollen....my wife made me do it....man that is ugly....I really hate it....

Dodgers on boats is like bad make up on a woman....spoils the "natural" looks...don't do it....resist.....buy a wet suit and a blanket....


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## 7Psych

Giulietta said:


> I sell you mine for $1000...want it????
> 
> Maybe I can get rid of it, say it was stollen....my wife made me do it....man that is ugly....I really hate it....
> 
> Dodgers on boats is like bad make up on a woman....spoils the "natural" looks...don't do it....resist.....buy a wet suit and a blanket....


Exactly as stated above...I hate the look of a dodger...Have NEVER had one and never will. That's what foul weather gear is for.....If you need a dodger to sail...then perhaps a power boat would best suit your needs. Everytime I see a dodger all I can think of is "floating condo"....


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## PBzeer

For daysailing perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be without my dodger when I'm cruising. When you're out there singlehanding, you don't need to be pounded by the weather all day. With mine, I can stand under the dodger and still be only a step away from the wheel.


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## Giulietta

John...I didn't say they aren't usefull, as I am guilty as charged of hiding behind it sometimes...

I said I think they are ugly....and spoil the looks of a boat, no matter what windows, hand rails, finish, fittings, style, shape, colours, stainless steel you use or manufacturer of choice...they're ugly, period....


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## sailingdog

His macho is threatened with the dodger on the boat, since his wife asked for it. The real reason he doesn't like having the dodger on the boat is that it reminds him who really owns the boat and wears the pants in the family.... after all, whose name is on the boat. 



Giulietta said:


> John...I didn't say they aren't usefull, as I am guilty as charged of hiding behind it sometimes...
> 
> I said I think they are ugly....and spoil the looks of a boat, no matter what windows, hand rails, finish, fittings, style, shape, colours, stainless steel you use or manufacturer of choice...they're ugly, period....


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## ccam

Thanks Haleaki,
for the excellent pics and description of the dodger. I too am looking to purchase a dodger for my 33. Like laser, my quote was high and I expect to pay around 5k for the larger tubing, handrails, hardtop and bimini. 

It's just that I have the same feel on dodgers as psych. Maybe the influence of my Harley for several years. It was most enjoyable without the bullet faring, that is of course, until I started thinking about the destination.


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## JohnRPollard

One option to reduce costs and to improve visibility is to go with a smaller companionway dodger. But either way you go, one nice feature is to add a small pocket at the top of the arch for a flashlight, so one is always available when returning to the boat in the dark. You can just see our mini-mag light in this photo:










Another option to consider instead of bulky zipper lapels/flaps, is a single cover of sunbrella that snaps in place and protects the windows as well as the zippers. This is a good option for folks that use their boats for weekend/vacation sailing (as opposed to full-time cruising). The cover wraps around the front of the dodger and drapes over all the windows and zippers. It gets removed and stowed when the boat is being used, but otherwise affords more protection during the majority of time when the boat is not being used. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of our arrangement...

Halekai, that's a very nice dodger! Did you make it yourself?


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## Giulietta

actually, after reading about more of the dodger posts, the following comes to mind:

Altough I don't like it but agree it is rather usefull, the following images make me believe my dodger has become a favorite among the youngest on my boat...several are known to make their confy nests there, which is good as we can see them as we sail...so it kinda warms my heart when I remeber who likes it and why...the shade and cool breeze provided make it a nesting spot all right...this is why its still there..the dodger stays, only for these reasons

Taking Fred to a race one cold early morning










The kid from hell giving us a break



















Fred and his cousin Mariana










And his best friend and sister










Freds best friend


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## sailingdog

Gui-

Those are priceless...


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## Giulietta

Yes they are Dan...yes they are


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## sailingdog

One of my friend's daughters, who crews for me on occasion, does the same thing as fred.. curls up under the dodger. She's figured out that is one spot on the boat that the evil helmsman can't get sprayed by turning the boat into the waves.


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## eherlihy

laser106 said:


> Just became the proud owner of a Ericson 34 located in the San Francisco Bay area. It came without a dodger and since the Summer winds here can be quite robust, I figured my first purchase would be a dodger. Called some ads I saw in Lat 38 and a few numbers the harbor master gave me for a quote and STICKER SHOCK! Prices ran from $2800 to $3500. At least twice what I thought it would be. Yes I did want 1" SS tubing and cover panels for the windows and ok grab rails on the side but still $3500!
> So I am looking for other options. Has anybody seen and tried dodger kits or 'do it your self kits' or how hard was it to make your own? Any great web sites that may help?
> Input will be much appreciated.


Resurrecting this old thread because prices have changed...

I contracted with a well respected high end canvas shop to replace my ancient POS dodger, and the frame with the following:
Custom sail dodger, 1 " stainless 316L frame, rope groove deck mount, Sunbrella fabric, gore-tex thread, YKK UV zippers, Strataglass .040 window material, removable center window, welded aft grab bar, awning zipper with stamoid covered grab area, rear fixed bracing struts all stainless hardware supplied and installed on site.

In addition, I have elected to have a single tube awning system 1" stainless 316L frame, Two split rail mounts for fixed bracing, side mounted to outside cockpit combing, Zippered pockets and zipper split for single backstay opening installed on site.

The total is slightly north of $7300...

Here is the before picture;









I will post the after next spring when it is finished.


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## Maine Sail

laser106 said:


> Just became the proud owner of a Ericson 34 located in the San Francisco Bay area. It came without a dodger and since the Summer winds here can be quite robust, I figured my first purchase would be a dodger. Called some ads I saw in Lat 38 and a few numbers the harbor master gave me for a quote and STICKER SHOCK! Prices ran from $2800 to $3500. At least twice what I thought it would be. Yes I did want 1" SS tubing and cover panels for the windows and ok grab rails on the side but still $3500!
> So I am looking for other options. Has anybody seen and tried dodger kits or 'do it your self kits' or how hard was it to make your own? Any great web sites that may help?
> Input will be much appreciated.


EDIT: 2008 thread and I already had answered..... Dredge post....


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## Irunbird

I'm thinking about adding a dodger to my Olson 30 (and I'm currently in the process of building the bimini- that one took first priority for SO-comfort reasons), but I've stumbled on one little problem. I'm thinking of using a sliding track for a bead on the forward edge of the dodger, but I can't use it much more than about 3 feet of width right in front of the cabin top hatch because of lines running back to clutches and winches. These boats were made simple- no coaming or anything to prevent water from sliding on back down and over the companionway so you can simply snap the dodger down to a more vertical surface as is frequently done. How do you seal that area to prevent as much water as possible from rushing over the cabin top and under the dodger around those lines?


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## ambianceack

I agree with others that you can't just buy some canvas, a sewing machine and tubing then build a dodger that will last. If you know how to sew you are ahead of the game but holding a 30 inch wide piece of canvas under the foot of a sewing machine and getting straight lines along the hem is not easy or quickly learned. Beyond that, keeping enough thread on the bobbin is another story. Moreover, using old dodgers as patterns doesn't work unless its the same boat, year and model. Even then you have to be careful due to wear and tear of the old dodger, a new dodger really needs to be templated, cut and sewn. I think anyone can make there own dodger and bimini etc, but it will take time and skill. Either way you pay.


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## Sabreman

> How do you seal that area to prevent as much water as possible from rushing over the cabin top and under the dodger around those lines?


You really can't. Closely placed snaps help, but the dodger is meant to act as a spray shield. Some water will almost always come under the dodger.

Dodgers are one of the more difficult canvas projects, but with practice and the right design are manageable. I've made all the canvas and cushions on our last 2 boats using a home machine and later, a Sailrite machine. While the results of the first projects weren't great, I learned. As I tackled more projects, the workmanship improved. I used the existing canvas for a pattern in some cases like the sail cover and bimini, but when I make a dodger next summer, I plan to use sheet plastic for my pattern. The good part about using the old canvas for a pattern is that you don't have to figure out the engineering. My dodger will be a modern design - basically a bimini with a Stratglas front and zippered sides. The modern designs are much more versatile in hot weather with the benefit of being much easier to build.

Learning to sew is a really useful skill that anyone can learn with patience. I will say that IMO, making a large sail (for a boat > 15') is for professionals. The bobbin on a professional machine is huge, the arm is about 3x the length of a Sailrite LSZ, and the floor of a loft make moving the sail much easier. I plan to stick to canvas covers and such.


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## Irunbird

Okie-dokie, then- I'll just run the channel for the leading edge to within 1cm or so of those lines, and not dive the boat under waves... We bought the LSZ-1 at the boat show in Annapolis a couple of months ago and just love it. I've made just a few canvas covers and sewn quite a bit of webbing (spinnaker net) and they came out well. Rewinding the bobbin definitely stinks, but I'm getting used to it..


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## chef2sail

YOou can seal it. You need to sew reenforced channels for the lines to go through as the move . My suggestion is you walk the docks and look at how other people have dealt with that issue.

Our sailrite machine is the best piece of equipment we have ever bought. My wife was really good at sewing so it was a no brainer, especially when you see the costs of things like ehrilly posted. She has saved us tousands of dollars on these projects. The didger is the most difficult piece because of its angles.

I agree witn Sabreman totally about doing it yourself and starting with smaller projects in cavas before tackliing a didger. My wife is currently redoing our cushions for about $1500 most of tha in new foam. The estimate we got was $6000.

Sailrite has so good videos for making canvas projects and such.

dave


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## MarkofSeaLife

Wellllllll I just had my dodger and side panels made up and paid a little less than $250 for them.

Now, I haven't shoved them up yet because its too cold here, so you will have to wait a few months for photos.

But the concept was to do what you lot are bleating about and still have money to take a chic out at night.

I already have a Bimini and don't really need a dodger at sea but they are nice at anchor in the trades to keep the 20 knots full time breeze down, cut the sun etc, the side panels do the same with sun etc and make the cockpit more of an extra room.

So I measured up a rhomboid shape pannel for the dodger for the two fixing posts of the Bimini to each end of the main traveler. A hole in the middle to string it up to the boom somewhere so it's not too low of paver the companionway.

Two side covers for the side of the Bimini forward and down to the toe rail, and aft to the stern rail.

Material is that shade cloth stuff boats use on windows. So I can see out. Don't remember what it's called. Tourmaline?

Cost fabric 9 years at $7.50 per yard $60
Cutting, hemming, holes etc $180

Ok it may not be perfect, but saves abit off the $7,000 someone mentioned!


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## Sabreman

I would stay away from anything other than Sunbrella for material. It usually runs about $15/yd so I'd query the person who is building your cover as to the brand.


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## Cruiser2B

eherlihy said:


> Resurrecting this old thread because prices have changed...
> 
> I contracted with a well respected high end canvas shop to replace my ancient POS dodger, and the frame with the following:
> Custom sail dodger, 1 " stainless 316L frame, rope groove deck mount, Sunbrella fabric, gore-tex thread, YKK UV zippers, Strataglass .040 window material, removable center window, welded aft grab bar, awning zipper with stamoid covered grab area, rear fixed bracing struts all stainless hardware supplied and installed on site.
> 
> In addition, I have elected to have a single tube awning system 1" stainless 316L frame, Two split rail mounts for fixed bracing, side mounted to outside cockpit combing, Zippered pockets and zipper split for single backstay opening installed on site.
> 
> The total is slightly north of $7300...
> 
> Here is the before picture;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post the after next spring when it is finished.


$7300 :laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher
Is there a smiley with a middle finger high in the air! If so insert here!

These people have lost their mind!


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## Maine Sail

Cruiser2B said:


> $7300 :laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher
> Is there a smiley with a middle finger high in the air! If so insert here!
> 
> These people have lost their mind!


Actually for the NE that is pretty much going rate for what he ordered. I also suspect he went with one of the best canvas guys in the country who is more artist than a slap it together stitcher like so many...


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## sailortjk1

Sabreman said:


> I would stay away from anything other than Sunbrella for material. It usually runs about $15/yd so I'd query the person who is building your cover as to the brand.


We went with Stamoid. 
It is supposed to last longer.


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## Cruiser2B

Maine Sail said:


> Actually for the NE that is pretty much going rate for what he ordered. I also suspect he went with one of the best canvas guys in the country who is more artist than a slap it together stitcher like so many...


Doesn't matter who's building it or where they are located.....it is overpriced! But of course it is.....its for a boat!

Let see, maybe and this is a big maybe, $1-1500 in materials.....thats almost 6000 for labor:laugher:laugher too funny....hmmmm yep too much for me.


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## casey1999

Sabreman said:


> The bobbin on a professional machine is huge, the arm is about 3x the length of a Sailrite LSZ, and the floor of a loft make moving the sail much easier. I plan to stick to canvas covers and such.


So a Sail Rite sewing machine will not sew all sails? I was thinking of buying one to do sail repair, but curious if it would sew my main sail. I have done repairs to my main by hand and have broken many sail needles. The sail is somthing like 1/2 inch in areas where it is sewen in high stress areas. What type machine do they use to make these?
Regards


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## chef2sail

Casey,

We bring our sails home every winter and my wife uses the Sailrite machine to sew and repair stiching ans see,s whoich ahve become degraded. We have a large basement which we bought a special rolloing open table for the machine as well as another table to hold the weight of the sail fabric as it comes through the machine so its supported and can be sewn more easily.. 

Last year she completely made a new scarificial sunbrella edge for the 155 .

The machine definately has the strength especially with the large weighted wheel to go through the fabric easily. It can be cumbersome in some spots but is a huge monetrray savings. Make sure you use the proper thread.


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## eherlihy

Cruiser2B said:


> $7300 :laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher
> Is there a smiley with a middle finger high in the air! If so insert here!
> 
> These people have lost their mind!


Thank you for that! My point, and that of the OP, is that this stuff is pricy!

My money, my decision... There is a reason that an BMW costs more than a Hyundai.

I decided that the dodger NEEDED to be replaced, and that a Bimini would greatly enhance my sailing time. I decided to go with a highly-recommended pro, and not a hacker. I expect that the appearance of the finished product will add to the value of my vessel, and will make the financial sacrifice for a quality product. The dodger and Bimini on my vessel are not components that I wish to compromise.

I will post a write-up, *with pictures*, when the finished product is ready. You can decide. You can see the turd (above) that I just threw away.

I won't tell you what the estimate for the interior cushions was. That might kill you. :laugher I will tell you that it was a good deal more than the dodger and bimini. I also decided that I could live w/ out redoing the interior.


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## Cruiser2B

eherlihy said:


> Thank you for that! My point, and that of the OP, is that this stuff is pricy!
> 
> My money, my decision... There is a reason that an BMW costs more than a Hyundai.
> 
> I decided that the dodger NEEDED to be replaced, and that a Bimini would greatly enhance my sailing time. I decided to go with a highly-recommended pro, and not a hacker. I expect that the appearance of the finished product will add to the value of my vessel, and will make the financial sacrifice for a quality product. The dodger and Bimini on my vessel are not components that I wish to compromise.
> 
> I will post a write-up, *with pictures*, when the finished product is ready. You can decide. You can see the turd (above) that I just threw away.
> 
> I won't tell you what the estimate for the interior cushions was. That might kill you. :laugher I will tell you that it was a good deal more than the dodger and bimini. I also decided that I could live w/ out redoing the interior.


did not mean to insult you, $7300 is a lot of money......to me. Amazed that there are people out there that can charge these prices.... and sleep at night...my guess is that he or she will sleep quite well. hope it turns out well. 5-6000 is a ton of labor! I hope you get 60-70 hours out of them at minimum.


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## Sabreman

> So a Sail Rite sewing machine will not sew all sails?


I replaced the luff tape on an old sail and had problems with missed stitches, but the problem turned out to be a wrong sized needle, so it wasn't the machine. But on a 43' luff, I changed bobbins quite a few times. I don't have a setup like Chef, so maneuvering a large, heavy sail is difficult.

Regarding a new sail, that's more complicated. On a smaller, lighter sail I might consider it. But to be honest, a sail is an airfoil and there is more to making one than simply stitching it. Not too many years ago, I would have argued that point, but after buying two new sails in as many years and watching the mainsail being built in person, I've modified my opinion. So I'd make a new sail but only for a smaller boat, perhaps up to 25'.

But for cushions and canvas work, the machine can't be beat. I've saved thousands. I've also made totes, bags, and duffels


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## eherlihy

Cruiser2B - No worries. no offense taken. I was shocked myself!!

I have had lower estimates, using the existing aluminum frame, which was also crap. In for a penny, in for a pound...

This will be done and, I am sure, done right. We will all find out in the spring.


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## davidpm

eherlihy said:


> T
> I won't tell you what the estimate for the interior cushions was. That might kill you. :laugher I will tell you that it was a good deal more than the dodger and bimini. I also decided that I could live w/ out redoing the interior.


So now that you brought it up. What did you have quoted.
New foam, what kind?
Material, different or same top and bottom?
Cost (we can take it) its only an estimate not a bill


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## davidpm

eherlihy said:


> T
> I won't tell you what the estimate for the interior cushions was. That might kill you. :laugher I will tell you that it was a good deal more than the dodger and bimini. I also decided that I could live w/ out redoing the interior.


So now that you brought it up. What did you have quoted.
New foam, what kind?
Material, different or same top and bottom?
Cost (we can take it) its only an estimate not a bill


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## misfits

eherlihy said:


> The total is slightly north of $7300...


Not trying to offend you brother but have you lost your mind?
I don't care how good somebody is, I can't wrap my head around that one


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## Maine Sail

Cruiser2B said:


> did not mean to insult you, $7300 is a lot of money......to me. Amazed that there are people out there that can charge these prices.... and sleep at night...my guess is that he or she will sleep quite well. hope it turns out well. 5-6000 is a ton of labor! I hope you get 60-70 hours out of them at minimum.


Our dodger & Bimini was 78.5 hours....

Go to boat meet with client on specifics and take preliminary frame measurements (most boats are not right in front of the canvas shop)

Go back to shop to bend, crown & manufacture the frame

Go to boat and "test fit frame" for "aesthetics" and agreed customer shape/dimensions/height etc.. A good shop will often want to get agreement on the new frame before moving forward.

Send frame out for custom welded grab bar (not all canvas shops are capable of doing a "top shelf" welding job for a grab rail).

Go back to boat to install both frames, every hole needs to be properly bedded and sealed. Backing plate access for the dodger & bimini frame need to be available for a "proper" installation. This required taking much of the interior apart to gain access to the where the feet would be mounted. Some guys just use screws, I prefer through bolting and was glad to pay for this extra time....

Pattern for dodger & bimini (got windy and ran out of time in "calm" on our job and had to come back to complete it, this happens). I was there during the patterning. It took two guys 4.5 hours on the first round before it got too windy to continue patterning. I suspect another 2 on the next round...

Go back to shop and sew dodger. With W.L. Gore Tenera thread, which is what was used on ours, this can add up to two+ additional hours in labor alone during the sewing as Tenera is quite finicky through the machines.. I will NEVER, EVER use polyester thread again and am GLAD to pay a premium for Tenara thread....

Return to boat and install dodger & bimini. On our boat this took two guys nearly 8 hours, I was there during the installation. Remember every fastener needs to be properly bedded, mounted & sealed. The snaps, lift a dots etc. are all installed on-site so the fit is just right. The dodger MUST fit correctly and there is a LOT that goes into a proper fitting and installation to get it "just right". If any nip & tucks need to be done to the dodger or bimini it goes back to shop for more tweaking. If old screw holes from a previous dodger could not be used they are filled, and this can really add up..

Once the dodger & bimini were installed the patterning for the bimini connector piece could begin

Pattern for bimini connector

Sew bimini connector

Return to boat and install bimini connector

If it does not fit "perfectly" back to shop for "tweaks"..

With a quality canvas shop this is not a 20 hour process at $80.00 per hour it is closer to 65 - 80+ man hours at the going rate which around here is $75.00 to $90.00 per hour...

BTW my washing machine was just repaired and they charge $97.00 per hour + travel + make a 400%+ mark up on the parts... Not just a "marine thing"... My canvas guy actually earned his money compared to the flunky who changed a $3.00 sensor then charged me $68.00 for it + $218.25 in labor and $65.00 "travel" to come 9.5 miles from his shop.

My car repair shop gets $95.00 per hour to work "flat rate" which means the mechanic fixes it in 15 minutes and they still charge me for a full hour because that is what the shop rate manual tells them to charge..... At least with my canvas guy I pay for an honest hours worth of work.....

I just changed the transmission fluid on my car yesterday for total cost of $36.00 for four quarts. It took me about 20 minutes. The dealer wanted $185.00 and they ge the transmission fluid at their cost not the $9.00 / quart I pay for the "proprietary" fluid.......


----------



## misfits

Ya know M.S., you're a good person & I understand that everyone needs to make money.

To try & justify $7,300.00 for a dodger, I think ya'll are snapping.


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## Sabreman

The bottom line is that owning a boat is expensive. This is why I do my own work, including canvas. There is no way that I could afford to own my boat otherwise.


----------



## Maine Sail

Sabreman said:


> The bottom line is that owning a boat is expensive. This is why I do my own work, including canvas. There is no way that I could afford to own my boat otherwise.


There are but two things I don't do on boats and that is canvas/sails and Awlgrip.... Sometimes you just need to pay the artist if you want it done right. I recognize I'll never be an artist when it comes to sewing...


----------



## Maine Sail

misfits said:


> Ya know M.S., you're a good person & I understand that everyone needs to make money.
> 
> To try & justify $7,300.00 for a dodger, I think ya'll are snapping.


You don't need to justify it but the numbers do add up.. Labor is labor and canvas making is one of the more labor intensive things you can do on a boat.......


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## chucklesR

The dodger and bimini (full enclosure) on my Irwin is my living room.


----------



## casey1999

Sabreman said:


> The bottom line is that owning a boat is expensive. This is why I do my own work, including canvas. There is no way that I could afford to own my boat otherwise.


Agree,

I also do my own car repairs (except for things like vac and filling the air conditioning system- after I replaced the compressor, dryer and condensor), fix my washer and dryer, fix my house, and fix my boat, fix my refrigerator, fix my solar hot water system.

I could not afford to live if I had to pay $100/hr to pay others to do this work.


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## L124C

Wonder if the OP ever got a dodger? Hope he sailed the Ericson for a bit to determine if he really needed one. I sail the SF Bay as well, and took my dodger off to do some work on the companion way years ago. It's not going back on as long as I own the boat unless I go cruising. 
Better visibility. Easier access to control lines and it's rare that I find myself putting the foulies on any earlier. Last, and least importantly...the boat looks a lot better without the dodger. 
Unless you have a really wet boat or are going offshore, I'd think twice before shelling out over $3,000! 
BTW, a dock mate recently spent 3K to have a dodger re-canvassed on a Cal 29. I couldn't believe it!


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## Cruiser2B

Maine Sail said:


> You don't need to justify it but the numbers do add up.. Labor is labor and canvas making is one of the more labor intensive things you can do on a boat.......


M.S.
don't not want to stray too far from topic but please explain the overhead of the bimini maker to me. The examples you site as a dealer for your car have extreme overhead; building, machinery, staff, huge insurance premiums.....not even the same or even close!


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## RobGallagher

I recently went through the same thing. I was thinking a nice dodger would set me back 12 - 15 hundred bucks. Holy crap, I nearly soiled myself when I got the $3,000 estimate.


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## Cruiser2B

RobGallagher said:


> I recently went through the same thing. I was thinking a nice dodger would set me back 12 - 15 hundred bucks. Holy crap, I nearly soiled myself when I got the $3,000 estimate.


nice ones....works of art........cost 2.5X that..... or about 6xtimes what you thought!:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher...I cant help it!


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## davidpm

What do folks think about the small just over the companion way mini-dogers.
If you have an auto-helm that is working and just want to get out of the spray but still see what is going on maybe that would be good enough.


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## Maine Sail

Cruiser2B said:


> M.S.
> don't not want to stray too far from topic but please explain the overhead of the bimini maker to me. The examples you site as a dealer for your car have extreme overhead; building, machinery, staff, huge insurance premiums.....not even the same or even close!


Yep car dealers have huge over head. I have a college room mate who is a car dealer. He has one of the largest most expensive homes in town (property taxes alone are roughly 50k per year), a house in Aspen, Sugarloaf & a private island off the coast of Maine (that I know about).. He seems to be doing just fine..

My canvas guy on the other hand drives an old car and lives in a very modest home. He also does not own multiple Rolex, Omega and other multi-thousand dollar watches..

The canvas maker who did our current boat has about 10 people on the payroll, has a huge waterfront sail loft to support and up until last year had two locations but with the economy & a lack of "qualified help" he had to close one and consolidate. His insurance is pretty outrageous because he also does rigging and has employees up spars. We use the same insurance agency so have commiserated about insurance costs before. He has the lowest labor rate of any of the local canvas or sail lofts in the area. Still did not make my canvas project inexpensive because it all comes down to the sheer number of hours involved in a quality job..

He also charges me fairly for an honest hours work. He works for an hour, I pay him for an hour. He works for a half hour I pay him for a half hour. There is no "shop rate" book for boats so he does not work for 15 minutes and charge me for 1.25 hours of work....

His operation is quite different in scale from the Mom & Pop car garage down the street who charges the same exact labor rate, has less employees (two to be exact), a smaller lower rent shop, but does the job in 15 minutes and still charges customers for the 1.25 hours the book says...

My point is that boating labor is often not any more or less expensive than other comparable work. Heck the local awning maker is more expensive than our local canvas & sailmaker. One of my customers now uses this same guy to do the canvas work for all his local restaurants. He discovered this because the local "awning company" was about 50% more and had less attention to detail. He was sure glad he had him make a sail cover this summer because it saved him big money on the new awning that got blown off the building during Hurricane Sandy.

My canvas guy is actually less per hour than these other local services:

Car Repair
Oil Burner Service Tech
Plumber
Electrician
Appliance Repair
My Wife's Hair Dresser ($140.00 - $170.00 for about 35-40 minutes)
Landscaper ($60.00 to mow my neighbors lawn in 20 minutes)
Snow Plow Guy (my neighbor pays $40.00 per plow and it takes less than 5 minutes)

I prefer quality work and am willing to pay for it, some are not. I see lots of crappy canvas work out there that can destroy the aesthetics of an otherwise pretty boat. Not what I want to pay for but you can if you want to......

BTW the tan dodger in post #8 still looks just as good today as it did then. It still fits perfectly, not s single thread has blown out, the windows are still clear and it has held up perfectly due to a great fit and great installation. You would never know that dodger is going on 13 years old. The ugly green one in that post was just four years old and pretty much junk when I replaced it. I fully expect that the current owner will likely get 16-20 years out of it.


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## MedSailor

I had the same problem when I looked into having a doger made for my first boat. I actually wanted a full enclosure with side windows as a "Seattle sunroom". I was floored by the price! 

Solution? I went without a dodger. I know I'm in the minority here, but I still don't really get the point of them. At ANY point of sail (since you can't go directly upwind) the dodger won't protect you from the wind if you're at the helm or cockpit benches. The only place you are protected is huddled under it! They're hard to see under and around and get in the way of a lot of things. 

Over 10 years in the Pacific Northwest without a dodger I still don't want one. I've also been on many many boats with them and still don't see the appeal. Try a couple seasons without before you spend that much money.

MedSailor


----------



## Sumner10

Sabreman said:


> The bottom line is that owning a boat is expensive. This is why I do my own work, including canvas. There is no way that I could afford to own my boat otherwise.


Yep same for us and being around 70 for both of us probably won't have the boat all that long relatively so even if we could afford those prices we would never get a fraction of the money back when it came time to sell. It is one thing putting an expensive Dodger/Bimini/Whatever on a $80,000+ boat vs. say a $30,000+ dollar boat.

We have done a number of canvas projects...

Ruth Canvas Mods Index

...for both boats and could never of afforded to of had them done. They have been fun and rewarding to do. They still have been an expense that we will probably never make back when we sell either boat, but they will make the boats easier to sell and we will get a lot of enjoyment out of the boats while we own them because of the mods.

Of course.....










...they don't look like what a professional canvas guy is going to do, but ...










.....we aren't ashamed of them either and there are things that we have done that I just haven't seen in professionally done work either. If you do these projects yourself you can do some extra little things that would really add to the cost if you were paying to have them done.

I've used the same approach with our house and vehicles,

Sum

================================================

Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


----------



## L124C

MedSailor said:


> I had the same problem when I looked into having a doger made for my first boat. I actually wanted a full enclosure with side windows as a "Seattle sunroom". I was floored by the price!
> 
> Solution? I went without a dodger. I know I'm in the minority here, but I still don't really get the point of them. At ANY point of sail (since you can't go directly upwind) the dodger won't protect you from the wind if you're at the helm or cockpit benches. The only place you are protected is huddled under it! They're hard to see under and around and get in the way of a lot of things.
> 
> Over 10 years in the Pacific Northwest without a dodger I still don't want one. I've also been on many many boats with them and still don't see the appeal. Try a couple seasons without before you spend that much money.
> MedSailor


"Seattle Sunroom"....I love it!
As I indicated earlier, I basically agree. However, if your sailing into a brisk head wind and sit to leeward, a dodger can give some relief. That counts when you are doing a long watch. In addition, when you see green water heading your way, it gives you a place to duck into (never fun getting hosed, even if you're in foulies). Both reasons I think dodgers have a place at sea. For bay sailing?....not on my boat.


----------



## copacabana

MedSailor said:


> I had the same problem when I looked into having a doger made for my first boat. I actually wanted a full enclosure with side windows as a "Seattle sunroom". I was floored by the price!
> 
> Solution? I went without a dodger. I know I'm in the minority here, but I still don't really get the point of them. At ANY point of sail (since you can't go directly upwind) the dodger won't protect you from the wind if you're at the helm or cockpit benches. The only place you are protected is huddled under it! They're hard to see under and around and get in the way of a lot of things.
> 
> Over 10 years in the Pacific Northwest without a dodger I still don't want one. I've also been on many many boats with them and still don't see the appeal. Try a couple seasons without before you spend that much money.
> 
> MedSailor


Medsailor, my current boat came with a hard divinycell/fiberglass dodger with fixed and opening windows and a fixed sunbrella bimini that give you sun and rain protection in the whole cockpit. I also have side spray panels on the rails. My hard dodger has standing headroom under it. I can honestly say that when I bought the boat I didn't really see the need for such a large hard dodger, but I do now. On any point of sail I can sit in the shade and out of the rain (sometimes zipping in a cloth panel here and there). We use our cockpit on sunny or rainy days- something we wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Having no dodger means sitting exposed to wind, sun, spray, rain etc. which becomes physically exhausting after only a few hours. Then there is the issue of UV, In the tropics you simply cannot spend time on a boat without proper sun protection unless you want to roast, burn, fry and get skin cancer. A hard dodger is usually very high on the list of "must-haves" of experienced cruisers looking for their ultimate cruising boat. Today I wouldn't go back. The only drawback is limited visibility at night to pick up a mooring.

For the prices I'm seeing for canvass dodgers in this thread you could make a proper foam core and fiberglass permanent hard dodger and still have change left over.


----------



## MedSailor

L124C said:


> In addition, when you see green water heading your way, it gives you a place to duck into (never fun getting hosed, even if you're in foulies). Both reasons I think dodgers have a place at sea. For bay sailing?....not on my boat.


Even though I've owned and extensively cruised 2 boats and tried dodgers on many others and STILL keep my opinion that they're over-rated, part of it is the boat you put it on. Some boats will take a lot of green water aboard, and others won't.

My boat has a 32' waterline length and is 41' on deck. While that's not the best in the moorage payment vs interior space equation, the HUGE overhang and flare of the clipper bow sure does keep the cockpit dry. I've taken her into some short, steep, high waves and stayed very very dry in my cockpit without a dodger. On a 40ft catalina in the same conditions, not so much....

40ft Catalina bow:

















Formosa 41 clipper bow:

















She keeps me dry. 

MedSailor


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## jimgo

Does anyone know ballpark costs to replace just the canvas on a dodger or bimini? Let's assume I have a good, sturdy frame for each, but the covers are trashed from Hurricane Sandy or birds, or...


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## chef2sail

A lot of variables size material glass composition number of struts, number of zippers etc

Dodgers are way more complicated Than biminis.

Figure around $2000 at least.

I am thankful my wife does ours as we have a Sailrite machine. It is a lot more complicated than it looks. Use Stratglass for windows


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## jimgo

I watched the Sailrite videos. It seems like you REALLY need to take your time and measure everything properly. The sewing itself didn't look too bad. I wonder how much I could tolerate my "mediocre" job for $1000 (or less) worth of fabric versus $4,000+.

Oh well, I gotta get a boat first!


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## Sumner10

jimgo said:


> Does anyone know ballpark costs to replace just the canvas on a dodger or bimini? Let's assume I have a good, sturdy frame for each, but the covers are trashed from Hurricane Sandy or birds, or...


It would help to know if you are going to do the work or do you need the complete job done,

Sum

======================================

Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


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## jimgo

I'd really like either/both. Mostly the cost to have it professionally done, since I can ROM cost the DIY version myself, but if someone has already done that work, it would be great.


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## Sumner10

jimgo said:


> I'd really like either/both. Mostly the cost to have it professionally done, since I can ROM cost the DIY version myself, but if someone has already done that work, it would be great.


Ours isn't great as it was my first real sewing job. Ruth had two foot operations and had to skip this project. So I did it, but had done most of the layout on the other projects that she had sewn. It would of been a difficult job without that background. We also have the sailrite machine and wouldn't of wanted to of tried it with something that was less.

It isn't a perfect....










...job, but it didn't cost like one either and it has features I haven't seen in professional dodgers. Not that they couldn't do it, but most people wouldn't want to pay for the extra time it takes.

You can find the mod and a lot more canvas ones here...

Endeavour 37 Canvas Mods Index

plus a number of other ones for our other boat.....

Ruth Canvas Mods Index

I spent about a month on the dodger. Not every day 8 hours a day, but still a lot of hours,

Sum

Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


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## chef2sail

Sumner10 said:


> Ours isn't great as it was my first real sewing job. Ruth had two foot operations and had to skip this project. So I did it, but had done most of the layout on the other projects that she had sewn. It would of been a difficult job without that background. We also have the sailrite machine and wouldn't of wanted to of tried it with something that was less.
> 
> It isn't a perfect....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...job, but it didn't cost like one either and it has features I haven't seen in professional dodgers. Not that they couldn't do it, but most people wouldn't want to pay for the extra time it takes.
> 
> You can find the mod and a lot more canvas ones here...
> 
> Endeavour 37 Canvas Mods Index
> 
> plus a number of other ones for our other boat.....
> 
> Ruth Canvas Mods Index
> 
> I spent about a month on the dodger. Not every day 8 hours a day, but still a lot of hours,
> 
> Sum
> 
> Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


Hey looks pretty good to me. Nice job with the overlapp edging covenring the zipper to prrevent leaking. Also your philosophy and our was similar in that we wanted a whole picture window to zip out when the weather was hot so we had air flow.

I think you did great.


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## Minnewaska

Boat canvas is just downright expensive, but there is a ton of labor involved. 

Most will want to come to your boat and layout a new cover from scratch, rather than work off your old one, especially, if you have side panels that must line up with zippers, or want a connector from the dodger to bimini, etc.


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## jimgo

Sumner, that looks pretty good! Better than my first sewing jobs.

Minnewaska, I think that's the better way to do it.

OK, one more dumb question - Can I template off the frame at home, or does it need to be done at the boat? That is, could I (or the canvas guy) take home the frame and make a template without the frame being on the boat? Just trying to think of ways the job could be made easier. When I tried to make a template for my companionway last spring, the gnats were brutal and made it almost impossible.


----------



## Faster

jimgo said:


> Can I template off the frame at home, or does it need to be done at the boat? That is, could I (or the canvas guy) take home the frame and make a template without the frame being on the boat? Just trying to think of ways the job could be made easier. When I tried to make a template for my companionway last spring, the gnats were brutal and made it almost impossible.


You could probably rough the main canopy as long as you KNEW you had the same geometry on the mounting points as you do on the boat.. but you couldn't pattern the transition to the cabintop anywhere else.. AFAIK the pros all do this on the boat. Best results would be having the frame exactly as installed (therefore on the boat) and patterning the entire dodger there.


----------



## Minnewaska

jimgo said:


> ....Can I template off the frame at home, or does it need to be done at the boat?.....


Same with most things. If you want it to come out right, you have to prepare it right.

The difference between canvas that is so tight you can't get it to properly wrap around the frame and canvas that looks saggy and loose is about a 1/4 of an inch.

I would do it in place on the boat.


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## chef2sail

On the boat in place.


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## jimgo

I was afraid you would say that! Hmmmm... Gotta break out the heavy-duty bug spray.


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## Sumner10

If we would of had the choice it would of been at the boat and the house, but our boat is 2200 miles from the house.

I took some measurements of the coaming that....










...goes around the cockpit/companionway and tried....










...to duplicate them at home and first setup the old dodger that was torn, old and had a number of zippers that didn't work. It worked pretty well, but as has been mentioned there isn't a lot of difference of being skin tight and loose (we are somewhere in-between).

We are happy with the outcome but one problem area was where...










...the bimini attaches to the dodger where the 2 left double arrows are. I didn't get the angle of the bimini in relation to the dodger quite right at home and..










... the bimini sits higher on the boat vs. what I had at home so we had to cut the area where they join on the sides (rolled up in the above picture) and modify that at the yard with the sewing machine. We did that just before we left and didn't put it back on, so no new pictures.

Our boat will sit for a good part of the year in Florida without us so we wanted the dodger and bimini to go on and off quickly for storage so all of the pockets....










....where they attach to the frame are zippered.

We also wanted the front window to have a lot of options. The screen can zip off and will be off unless we are using...










...the full cockpit screen. The window also zips completely out if you want and I put in 4 zippers pulls so that you can ...










...open the whole window and leave it in place (above) or open any one or two...










...areas of it. This all takes a lot of time. All of this is on the web site,

Sum

Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


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## SloopJonB

If you've ever had a new top put on a convertible the prices of custom dodgers doesn't seem so out of line.


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## eherlihy

eherlihy said:


> Resurrecting this old thread because prices have changed...
> 
> I contracted with a well respected high end canvas shop to replace my ancient POS dodger, and the frame with the following:
> Custom sail dodger, 1 " stainless 316L frame, rope groove deck mount, Sunbrella fabric, gore-tex thread, YKK UV zippers, Strataglass .040 window material, removable center window, welded aft grab bar, awning zipper with stamoid covered grab area, rear fixed bracing struts all stainless hardware supplied and installed on site.
> 
> In addition, I have elected to have a single tube awning system 1" stainless 316L frame, Two split rail mounts for fixed bracing, side mounted to outside cockpit combing, Zippered pockets and zipper split for single backstay opening installed on site.
> 
> The total is slightly north of $7300...
> 
> Here is the before picture;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post the after next spring when it is finished.


The dodger and bimini were installed in April... Unfortunately it has taken me 'till now to get around to posting back on this topic. The dodger alone cost ~$5k, and here is what I received; 

Custom sail dodger - the canvas guy came out to my boat with me, and fitted the dodger to me. The height, and width were designed so that I could see without having to duck to see under, or peer over the top.
1 " stainless 316L frame - the old canvas had an aluminum frame
rope groove deck mount
Sunbrella fabric
gore-tex thread
YKK UV zippers
Strataglass .040 window material
removable center window - if I had it to do again, I would opt for a window which I could simply unzip, and flip over the top of the dodger. I keep the window is removed, unless it is raining, and I plan to use it in the late fall when the temps fall below 40ºF.
welded aft grab bar
awning zipper with stamoid covered grab area
adjustable rear fixed bracing struts 
all stainless hardware supplied and installed on site.

Here are some of the after photos;



























I've sailed with it through May, June, and July. Here are my observations:

The stainless steel frame with grab rail are a TREMENDOUS improvement
Note that the top of the dodger has a very slight crown, so that it sheds water.







The old dodger was more square on the top, and as a result retained the water on the top, which then leaked through the Sunbrella and down the companionway
The new dodger has mesh pockets near the coming, and THEY ARE AWESOME! perfect for holding binoc's. handheld VHF, bungy cords, shoes, air horn, etc.
The support struts that replaced the webbing make great hand holds, and are actually turnbuckles. I can twist the strut, and it will tighten, or loosen the canvas (it is rather loose in the pic above) to make the canvas look neater.
he also added two of these leather cutouts for the traveler adjustments.









You can also see, in the pic above one item that I was less impressed with. In the course of removing the old dodger, he also had to remove several "lift the dot screw studs" from the deck. We discussed this concern before he began the work, but he assured me that he runs into this all the time, and he had a solution. His solution was to simply fill the holes in the deck by injecting 4200, and covering with fiberglass packing tape. I will likely bore these out and inject epoxy, and gelcoat next spring.

Here is another pic;









Another nit is that while the rope track was being mounted, there must have been several mistakes in the drilling. Rather than pattern a track, he simply drilled new holes elsewhere in the track. You can see this above. Honestly, this isn't a big deal, but for top dollar (and this was), and from a very highly respected canvas person, I expected everything to be perfect.

We also installed a custom 1 rail Bimini. This cost another ~$2K. The Bimini folds up into this;









Here is how the stainless frame is fastened through the deck.









I say "we" because I was there for the installation. I helped his helper seal the holes as noted above per his direction. However on the through bolts, I insisted that he use Butyl tape to seal holes drilled through the deck (instead of 4200), and that he use fender washers and through bolts, rather than simply screwing the mounting bracket pictured above into the deck.

The canvas guy also made 3 custom winch covers, and a small binnacle cover, which he threw in at no additional cost.

All in all, I am happy with the result, and grateful to take advantage of his experience. However, I am very tempted to buy a SailRite machine, and start my new career...

I am sharing this with the forum, so that you will have a benchmark of what this kind of project costs, and entails. PM me if you want a referral. This guy does great work!


----------



## SloopJonB

Nice piece. 

As to buying a sewing machine and going into business - how many wealthy canvas stitchers do you know?


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## abrahamx

Guess I aint getting one. I thought $375 for my bimini was bad. I figured a dodger would run about 3-5 hundred. Damn.


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## misfits

eherlihy said:


> The dodger cost ~$5k, However, I am very tempted to buy a SailRite machine, and start my new career...


Looks very nice but 5K is what I paid for my whole boat.
Seems to me if one has the skill, buying a Sailrite machine is the way to go.


----------



## eherlihy

abrahamx said:


> Guess I aint getting one. I thought $375 for my bimini was bad. I figured a dodger would run about 3-5 hundred. Damn.


Hence, the title of this thread...

The bimini was about another $2K


----------



## eherlihy

misfits said:


> Looks very nice but 5K is what I paid for my whole boat.
> Seems to me if one has the skill, buying a Sailrite machine is the way to go.


$5K for a 1980 Sabre 28 - you may have got a good deal! - especially if that MD7 has been replaced.

Buying the machine, for those with the skill, and a place to use it, is the more cost effective way to go.


----------



## Tanley

Been waiting for this update. Looks fantastic! Not a slight on anyone's abilities here, but this thread has a few good examples of the difference between a DIY canvas job vs. professional work. You can clearly see the difference in fit and finish. 

A bit surprised about how the rope rail was secured and the manner in which the previous dodger snaps were dealt with. Looks like it won't be visible though w/o looking pretty hard.

Certainly a pricey project, but it looks like it turned out great.


----------



## misfits

Tanley said:


> Been waiting for this update. Looks fantastic! Not a slight on anyone's abilities here, but this thread has a few good examples of the difference between a DIY canvas job vs. professional work. You can clearly see the difference in fit and finish.
> Certainly a pricey project, but it looks like it turned out great.


It's an absolute awesome job. Looking at just the detail that when it to producing the dodger frame alone, the guy's a craftsman.

My comment about spending 5K for my boat wasn't meant to nix you for spending your money on something you wanted. Please accept my apology.


----------



## eherlihy

misfits said:


> It's an absolute awesome job. Looking at just the detail that when it to producing the dodger frame alone, the guy's a craftsman.
> 
> My comment about spending 5K for my boat wasn't meant to nix you for spending your money on something you wanted. Please accept my apology.


No offense taken! and no apology needed

Seriously, I know the Sabre 28. A friend of mine has an '81 vintage, and I love it - except the Volvo engine...


----------



## jimgo

That is really sharp! I like the use of the track all the way around; that gives a really nice fit, and may actually be a way for me to solve my fit problems. For the center window, how do you remove it? Do you have to remove the entire dodger? I see the zipper, but what about the track slide?


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## eherlihy

To remove the window, I fully unzip the window on the port and starboard side and then slide the window to the port side, where there is a spot where the track has been widened to allow easy ingress/egress.

Another neat feature is that I can partially unzip the window, and snap the window into two fasteners on the sea hood, and keep the window ½ open, and completely out of the way.


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## chef2sail

eherlihy said:


> To remove the window, I fully unzip the window on the port and starboard side and then slide the window to the port side, where there is a spot where the track has been widened to allow easy ingress/egress.
> 
> Another neat feature is that I can partially unzip the window, and snap the window into two fasteners on the sea hood, and keep the window ½ open, and completely out of the way.


Classy job. My wife made ours 6 years ago with the SR machine. You have some nice features I'd like to incorporate in our next one in a few years.

So you use the struts to tighten he fabric vrs web straps?


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## jimgo

I also really like the solution for the traveler lines. I may have to incorporate that into my dodger this winter.

Yeah, it was $7K, and my bimini, dodger, lifeline pads, and sail cover only cost me about $1000, including the cost of a sewing machine (obviously not a Sailrite), but I'll be the first to admit that yours looks a heck of a lot better than mine. I put a LOT of hours into my canvas, probably on the order of 4-6 hours a night for easily 4-5 weeks. In hindsight, if you have the money, it seems like a good way to have gone.


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## eherlihy

chef2sail said:


> So you use the struts to tighten he fabric vrs web straps?


Thanks Chef.

Yes, you got it. SalRite sells hardware that does this, and I may buy two of them for the back rail of the Bimini top (I have to leave my mark in this project too). See here Adjustable Eye Ends Stainless Steel 1" for Dodgers, Biminis & Awnings

The hardware that he used for the dodger support struts, however, is welded  (beautifully) onto the stainless support struts. The pieces from SailRite are held with set screws.

I decided to commit to the canvas, and put the money aside last year. I was working at a job that I had been with for over a year, and thought it was going well. I was laid-off in January, and have been looking for a comparable job ever since. If I had lost my job two months earlier, I would have tried to do the work myself. While the dodger would have cost less, the finished product would have lacked many of the details (like the mesh pockets that I love), and it would have looked like I did it myself..


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## JamesRichy

I've had good experience with Sailrite dodgers. $1400 or so all in, frame and fabric. (I helped make two, I do not own one). There is a new design this year, which is a big improvement. Who cares if it's not 100% perfect, and if there are small wrinkles here and there? They still look fantastic. Is perfection really worth the extra $4,000? (2019 prices). Not for me. I also had a boat with an extremely expensive "professionally made" hard dodger with canvas panels. Didn't like the design, poor visibility, etc. Hiring a "pro" is great if you can really find a pro, but many people calling themselves pros are really just jackasses, in my experience. And good people are what, $125 an hour? It's crazy.


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## SanderO

I don't bother with a grab bar on rear edge or at the sides. Never found the need for such... as in... it would be cool if I could stand here and have a hand hold. I grab the rear edge for stability but that's it.

My frame is 1" ss and so a new dodge is new cloth and glass... Shop only has to copy the existing. Center front window can be unzipped and removed or flipped back on to. Needs to be replaced every 6yrs or so.

Cost to replace everything but the frame is about 1400$ US


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## Skipper Jer

I made my own dodger, frame and canvass. I bought a bimini off ebay for the curves. A few cuts with a hacksaw, some stainless steel rivets and some JB Weld I had the start of a decent dodger frame. Add some mounting hardware and some tees the frame was done. The canvass turned out ok, has a couple of darts to tighten up the fabric that I could do without but it was a few hundred dollars instead of thousands I'll live with it. I think one could describe my dodger as a 20 foot dodger, from 20 feet it looks good. Still deflects weather.


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## capta

Like our dinghy, our dodger and bimini are very very important to our enjoying our time on the water. They are also two of the more expensive ancillary items for the boat. I am not a professional canvas person any more than I can make my own dinghy. It would take me much more time, work and frustration to make my dodger than earning the money to have one built by a professional and I'd most certainly not do nearly as good a job. Plus, we really don't need to have to find a place to stow *another* big heavy piece of equipment (a sewing machine) that we may use every other year at most.
Our dodger is going on ten years of use in the tropics and three ocean crossings. It has taken plenty blue water in channel crossings andngales and is lasting very well in the tropical sun. At $3500, that's only around $350 a year and that's not all that expensive (for the use we get out of it) in the scheme of boat bucks. 
I'll stick to what I do well and let those who do their job better and more efficiently than I do theirs. Any decent canvas maker will have plenty of dodgers on local boats you can check out before you choose a maker and style. Ask other owners with good dodgers who they used. In this case, if you get a poorly made dodger made by a professional, I'd say that was because you didn't do your research.


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## SanderO

What Capta said... You can get a quality dodger which is attractive and functional and WORKS for your boat. Get good Sunbrella and glass. That's the new dodger on my old ss bows installed in 2012... We still have it. Then 2016 after a bird poop attack... It cleaned up nicely and we still used it. Looks great... Last Spring in winter storage... Glass was about to be replaced and new aft trim. I paid $1,400 7 years ago.... and several hundred for the new glass and trim.


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## pdqaltair

O'Sea, from the makers of Regalite (non-coated version), is the only real equivalent to Strataglass. It is also coated, just as clear, just as expensive, and a good bit more flexible. I've been using it and testing it for 5 years and like it very much. I think it is a matter of personal preference more than anything else.


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