# Adrift sv Dagny, West End, Grand Bahama



## oceangirl

please be on the look out for 
s/v Dagny, a Morris Francis 26 ft sailboat
was anchored off West End (grand Bahamas) when she disappeared while the singlehander was ashore.
Vessel has been missing since 12/22/2015
Chris Parker has put out a couple drift analysis. I will post separately.
Vessel has off white hull with dark boot stripes, flush deck, 26 ft long.


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## oceangirl

From SSCA FB

Marine Weather Forecaster Chris Parker of the Marine Weather Center had so generously provided us with the following update on the projected drift of the unmanned S/V DAGNY which went adrift from West End, Bahamas on December 22, 2015.
Please share this information to fellow cruisers transiting the coastal waters of Northern Florida and Georgia. Please report any sighting to the United States Coast Guard (USCG) and Seven Seas Cruising Association (SSCA) Radio Station "KPK" at [email protected] or telephone 941-456-5070.
Thank you,
Glenn Tuttle - Moderator
Cruisers Network Online
SSCA Radio Station "KPK"
Daily 8.104 @ 1145 hrs UTC
[email protected]
Here was the analysis I provided Sat26:
The vessel drifted about 25 miles in a direction of 320T in 24 hours. This makes sense, and confirms the roughly 1k speed of drift. My guess was between 1k and 1.5k speed of drift due to wind. Assuming there were no tidal currents, the speed of drift may be closer to 1k in wind of 15k, which is slightly less than I was estimating.
So the vessel started drifting from 26-40N/79W at about 5:30pm EST on Tue22.
Was sighted 27-04N/79-16W at 5:20pm on Wed23.
At 5pm on Thu24, I estimate position 28-12N/79-45W, based on drift from wind 30 miles, in direction 320T & set from current 48 miles in direction 355T.
At 5pm on Fri25, I estimate position 29-30N/80-10W, based on drift from wind 25 miles, in direction 310T & set from current 45 miles in direction 348T.
At 5pm today (Sat26), I estimate position 30N/80-30W, based on drift from wind 22 miles, in direction 320T & current about 10 miles in direction 345T.
From the current location there's little GulfStream current (and tidal currents should cancel themselves out over a 24hr period), so drift should be due exclusively to wind, and should be about 18 miles in a direction of 330T Sat26 night-Sun27 (yielding a 5pm Sun27 location of 30-15N/80-40W)...
and 22 miles in a direction 340T Sun27 night-Mon28 (yielding a Mon28 evening location of 30-36N/80-48W).
and 25mi in a direction 360T Mon28 night-Tue29 (yielding a 5pm Tue29 position 30-51N/80-48W).
Of course, all of the above is only an educated guess, and the possible errors compound over time...cheers...Chris.
*.*
REVISION:
Let's assume this was correct:
At 5pm on Fri25, I estimate position 29-30N/80-10W
Here's the revision: At 5pm on Sat26, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 29-53N/80-30W, based on drift from wind of 20mi, in direction 310T & set from current about 10 miles in direction 345T.
At 5pm on Sun27, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-08N/80-45W, based on drift from wind of 20mi, in direction 320T
At 5pm Mon28, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-21N/80-56W, based on drift from wind of 16mi, in direction 325T.
At 5pm on Tue29, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-36N/80-59W, based on drift from wind of 15mi, in direction 350T.
At 5pm on Wed30, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-50N/80-56W, based on drift from wind of 15mi, in direction 010T.
At 5pm on Thu31, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-59N/80-50W, based on drift from wind of 10mi, in direction 030T.
I'll reiterate: Of course, all of the above is only an educated guess, and the possible errors compound over time...cheers...Chris.
-- 
Chris Parker
Weather Forecasting & Vessel Routing
Weather & Communications - Hardware, Software, Sales, Consulting, Books,
Seminars
www.mwxc.com
Marine Weather & Communications LLC (and dba Marine Weather Center)
5130 Medulla Rd
Lakeland FL 33811
ph 863-248-2702
fax 863-248-4666


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## oceangirl

Couple more pics.

Gil's website has a full account of events svdagny.com


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## oceangirl

More


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## Bleemus

Sad story. Guy buys a boat and refits it. Has only 4 hours sailing experience sailing inshore. Leaves for Bahamas and is violently seasick within first hour. Instead of turning back he proceeds for 19 hours and anchors outside the reef north of West End delirious for three days due to rolling of boat. Not strong enough to retrieve anchor and chain he cuts it free and sails to outside West End and uses back up anchor without sufficient scope to anchor outside the reef again in 40 feet of water. Goes ashore, clears customs and has lunch with his $150 remaining cash. Boat is missing after lunch and a nap on a park bench. 

A classic example of bad decisions compounding themselves and the debilitating effects of seasickness. I wish him luck. 


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## mbianka

Bleemus said:


> Sad story. A classic example of bad decisions compounding themselves and the debilitating effects of seasickness. I wish him luck.


 The lyrics of a Greg Brown song seem a good reminder not to leave too much to chance when on or off a boat:

_"One wrong turn is all it takes
And there ain't many signs -
You only get a few breaks.
Some get more. Some get less.
One wrong turn leads to the next.
The days go slow and the years go fast.
The future you look for is soon the past.
You seldom end up where you thought you would.
One wrong turn can change it all for good."_

Really hope he and his boat are reunited soon. Looks there are a lot of good people keeping their eyes open looking for it. Hat's off to Chris Parker for providing the drift analysis. The Lesson Learned I'm taking from this incident is when anchoring in unfamiliar waters and no other occupied boats around. Might be a good idea to keep the AIS transponder on (if you have one) while on shore.


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## oceangirl

Bleemus said:


> Sad story. Guy buys a boat and refits it. Has only 4 hours sailing experience sailing inshore. Leaves for Bahamas and is violently seasick within first hour. Instead of turning back he proceeds for 19 hours and anchors outside the reef north of West End delirious for three days due to rolling of boat. Not strong enough to retrieve anchor and chain he cuts it free and sails to outside West End and uses back up anchor without sufficient scope to anchor outside the reef again in 40 feet of water. Goes ashore, clears customs and has lunch with his $150 remaining cash. Boat is missing after lunch and a nap on a park bench.
> 
> A classic example of bad decisions compounding themselves and the debilitating effects of seasickness. I wish him luck.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Wow, I don't even know where to start. Between the misinformation and the total lack of knowledge of what actually happened, I just don't have the energy to fix your ignorance.

I don't want to get into a debate either, I posted this to help a singlehander try and retrieve his vessel. If you can pass the word to other sailors, fishermen, cruising groups, rally's regattas that might be near the drift area, please do.

If you'd like to start a commentary on what he did wrong, could you please start it on another thread? I'd like to keep this clutter free so updates and folks who might be able to help without having to wade through "what I would of done " posts.

Thanks
Erika


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## Bleemus

Erika,
Please read his whole blog, as I have done, and point out any fallacies you may think I have conjured up. It's all there in black and white. If your going to post please expect commentary on it. That is what a forum is all about. 

I forgot to point out that when he received word of a boat anchored at Memory Rock, near the expected drift of his vessel, in an unusual place he didn't enlist help to investigate but instead decided to write a review of the Delorme InReach. These are facts. 

Let his tale be a precautionary one for those who go to sea without ever having been there and knowing if you are prone to seasickness. I wish him luck. 


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## krisscross

Every singlehander nightmare: finding your boat drift away while on shore. I hope he finds her before she washes up somewhere in the Carolinas.


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## oceangirl

Bleemus said:


> Erika,
> Please read his whole blog, as I have done, and point out any fallacies you may think I have conjured up. It's all there in black and white. If your going to post please expect commentary on it. That is what a forum is all about.
> 
> I forgot to point out that when he received word of a boat anchored at Memory Rock, near the expected drift of his vessel, in an unusual place he didn't enlist help to investigate but instead decided to write a review of the Delorme InReach. These are facts.
> 
> Let his tale be a precautionary one for those who go to sea without ever having been there and knowing if you are prone to seasickness. I wish him luck.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Actually I don't expect commentary on a sub forum designated to alert cruisers of a vessel adrift and navigational hazard. If I am mistaken, I apologize.

You are profoundly misinformed. There have been two sightings at memory rock, both were investigated and found not to be Dagny. Gil is a writer, so he writes. If he could swim out searching for his beloved vessel he would. If he had the funds and resources to fly a plane endless hours over the projected drift area he would. But since he does not we, who are trying to help him, post BOTLO to anyone who may find themselves in her area.

All authorities have been contacted. We are hoping a fishermen, powerboater, sailor will spot her and call the coast guard along with emailing Glenn at SSCA of her location so Gil can hightail it out to her or arrange to have her recovered.

I appreciate your input and concern, I too hope Dagny is found.
Happy New Years
Erika


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## Bleemus

My apologies. I use TapaTalk and just look at New Posts and don't look at what sub forum a post is in. 

If I were in the area I would help look for his boat but since I am not I hope others are able to find her and reunite him with her. 




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## cshrimpt

Seems like his main issue was not properly anticipating his cross track. He started crossing too far north at Port St. Lucie. For a first trip, it probably would have been better to sail south and crossed near Miami. That way, he could go straight across and let the current carry him north, thus spending minimal time in the stream. Plus, he'd have some time to get used to the motion before the rough seas and hopefully avoid seasickness.

Other than that, he didn't seem to do anything egregious.

-C


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## Bleemus

Biting my tongue. 


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## sharkbait

1


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## oceangirl

No new sightings and we will probably not get another drift analysis from Chris Parker due to the time factor. Waves are pushing her towards shore while currents are pushing her out. Then there is the wind. Dagny is pretty low to the water and though her keel is long, it is fairly shallow. Plus she is dragging an anchor along with her. I think the curve of the coast will be in our favor and she will anchor herself off the Carolinas..?

Please keep an eye out. If you have a friend who is in the vicinity, or have a friend who may have a friend that is in the vicinity, please let them know about Dagny. It is now a waiting game for her to be spotted. The more people know about dagny the more likely she will be spotted and recognized as a vessel adrift. 

No lights on, so she is a hazard to navigation.

Another picture, I thought I'd already posted this. The orange round fender was not on deck when the boat went adrift. There were two small blue fenders. The boat is locked up tight, and solar panels should keep the batteries charged.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read and pass along this notice.


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## Donna_F

There have been some objections to the perceived pounding on this guy while he's down on his luck. Please remember that personal attacks are still not welcome on this forum whether the person is a member or not. Civilly discussing his decisions, on the other hand, is a learning opportunity for all of us.


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## sharkbait

1


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## CharlzO

sharkbait said:


> Hey, I feel bad for this guy, but he screwed up big time and now he's on the interwebs trying to cadge money from strangers.
> How much did the kaufmans make? $16,000-$17,000?
> Rebel Heart, rescue underway - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums


What does that link have to do with Dagny being adrift? Either you linked the wrong article, or are confusing the situations?


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## oceangirl

sharkbait said:


> Hey, I feel bad for this guy, but he screwed up big time and now he's on the interwebs trying to cadge money from strangers.
> How much did the kaufmans make? $16,000-$17,000?
> Rebel Heart, rescue underway - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums


I can only assume you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation as you are active on another forum where Gil has stated categorically any monetary help would be a loan, even when told to not pay back. He has also stated very clearly what transpired leading up to the loss of Dagny. This is a real sailor, in real trouble.

I understood this to be sub forum to be used as a form of notice to Mariners type of thing.

I see you are in the Carolinas, if you'd like to help, money is not the issue, spotting her is. So please put the word out if you know any sailors transiting this area. If you have a boat and are in a marina, you could also let your harbor master know, I could email you a flyer.

Thanks
Erika


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## sharkbait

1


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## John McIntosh Sr.

sharkbait said:


> CF is having another one of their heavily moderated love fests. Like they did for the Rebel Heart idiots.
> 
> Tragedy Strikes. - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


I know, I was one of the casualties over there. A couple of members were lambasting the guy and I asked them to give it a rest. Then my post's were deleted. C'est la vie.
I had been there for 8 years and maybe posted 100 times and only bought from there sponsors a few time so I am no big loss.


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## FloridaBoy

Some people forget they made mistakes in the past. "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle." Plato, I think. kev


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## hellosailor

Interesting that neither here nor there, anyone has mentioned that a "Bahamian Mooring" aka dropping two anchors in a "V" anticipating that one will break free and the other will be there to help keep the boat anchored, is called a BAHAMIAN MOORING for a reason. Presumably because it is used more often for some odd reason in, uh the BAHAMAS?

I had a firmly anchored boat start to sneak away while I took a really fast dingy trip ashore one day. "Hey, is that boat drifting?" and fortunately it was slower than I was. But I no longer trust ay anchor that I'm strong enough to lift, and I give mooring balls only slightly more faith. I'm glad I just got a scare out of the first time.


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## SVAuspicious

DRFerron said:


> There have been some objections to the perceived pounding on this guy while he's down on his luck. Please remember that personal attacks are still not welcome on this forum whether the person is a member or not. Civilly discussing his decisions, on the other hand, is a learning opportunity for all of us.


I agree with Donna.

I would like to point out that decision-making deteriorates with fatigue. You can talk about his initial choice to sail alone, and the issues of preparation and weather knowledge. Until you have spent many days on end without much or any sleep you should not talk about the decisions made at the end of that kind of experience.

In my own case I was fortunate. I was out seven days single-handed with a fifteen minute timer. I was very fortunate to have good friends on the other end of an SSB connection and I had enough brain cells left to, eventually, listen to their advice. SV Dagny didn't have that. I was also not seasick. I have had sick crew and reading the couple of sentences about sleeping on a bench in a park my heart went out to him.

Have you never made a mistake? Have you never had your life go pear shaped?

SV Dagny could have made better choices. We can leave it at that. Wouldn't you like people to pitch in and help you when something goes wrong?

We can indeed learn from the mistakes of others. We don't have to beat up the "others" in the process.


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## Bleemus

Any word on the boat being spotted?


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## smj

hellosailor said:


> Interesting that neither here nor there, anyone has mentioned that a "Bahamian Mooring" aka dropping two anchors in a "V" anticipating that one will break free and the other will be there to help keep the boat anchored, is called a BAHAMIAN MOORING for a reason. Presumably because it is used more often for some odd reason in, uh the BAHAMAS?
> 
> I had a firmly anchored boat start to sneak away while I took a really fast dingy trip ashore one day. "Hey, is that boat drifting?" and fortunately it was slower than I was. But I no longer trust ay anchor that I'm strong enough to lift, and I give mooring balls only slightly more faith. I'm glad I just got a scare out of the first time.


The Bahamian mooring is not necessarily set in a "V" configuration as that would mean the anchors are set 45 degrees apart. The Bahamian mooring is set 180 degrees apart, one anchor opposing the other to deal with the changing tides and currents which are prevalent in the Bahamas.

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## smj

sharkbait said:


> Hey, I feel bad for this guy, but he screwed up big time and now he's on the interwebs trying to cadge money from strangers.
> How much did the kaufmans make? $16,000-$17,000?
> http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=156426


This guy is not trying to "cadge" money from anyone. He never asked for money, and when offered he only took as a loan. Hopefully his boat will be found and returned to him.

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## CharlzO

sharkbait said:


> It was a reference to people scrounging cash on CF to bail them out of situations that their incompetence got them into


At no point has Gil ever seemed to come across that he was relying on the people of CF to bail him out of anything. He merely posted the unfortunate situation he found himself in, other people have offered such, and as OceanGirl mentioned, he has stated that if he accepted any help financially, it would be a loan, which to me doesn't sound like begging for help in any way, shape or form.


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## oceangirl

Bleemus said:


> Any word on the boat being spotted?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No new sightings. I've created a flyer so we can start emailing the marinas up the coast. If you'd like a copy to put up at your Marina ( obviously if you are in the possible drift area) I'd be glad to email it to you. Here is a copy with out the pics. But the email I send you will have the pictures of drift route and of boat.

Flyer:

Please be advised that the 26 ft sailing vessel Dagny has dragged anchor and suspected to be drifting north in the Gulf Stream. She is showing no lights and is a hazard to navigation.

Contact info
If sighted, please contact the Coast Guard, and if possible email the persons below:

SSCA recovery coordinator, Glen [email protected] 
Owner - Gil [email protected]

Vessel Info
26ft sailboat, Morris Francis, mid 1970s
Flush deck
Light grey color deck, white hull with dark blue/black stripes
Double ender 
Boom Gallows
Sails stowed on deck
Windvane, stern hung rudder
All ports and hatches closed and locked
May still have her quarantine yellow flag up.


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## John McIntosh Sr.

Ocean Girl, I am making up flyers for Carolina Beach, NC area.
There was another photo of Dagny I think you posted on CF.
(stern).
Do you still have it and would you email to me?
I cannot PM you as I have not posted enough.
Thanks.

John Mcintosh


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## oceangirl

Will pm it to you plus here it is


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## goat

Just because I'm used to them, but a boat sure looks naked without life lines.

goat


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## oceangirl

John McIntosh Sr. said:


> Ocean Girl, I am making up flyers for Carolina Beach, NC area.
> There was another photo of Dagny I think you posted on CF.
> (stern).
> Do you still have it and would you email to me?
> I cannot PM you as I have not posted enough.
> Thanks.
> 
> John Mcintosh


Can you let me know after you send out these flyers. Im using active captain to email the harbor masters. Very quick and easy way of getting these flyers out.  
Here is an example


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## John McIntosh Sr.

I am dropping them off at Marina's and putting them out at the inlet for the fishermen. 
Have Sent to the Harbor Masters at Wrightsville Beach, Carolina Beach and Southport?

And yes,
I am printing them today and will start dropping off tomorrow.

John


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## miatapaul

I am surprised the boat has not turned up yet. Seems that it is a pretty busy time of year down there. Hopefully the anchor is being dragged and it may prevent it from ending up on shore.


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## oceangirl

Here is a cleaned up version of the flyer without the pics( my iPad crashes when I try to add pics grr). You can cut and paste and add pics. Or I can email you a full copy, just pm me.

Please be advised that the 26 ft sailing vessel Dagny has dragged anchor and suspected to be drifting north in the Gulf Stream. She is showing no lights and is a hazard to navigation.

Contact info
If sighted, please contact the Coast Guard, and if possible email the persons below:

SSCA recovery coordinator, Glen [email protected]
Owner - Gil [email protected]

Vessel Info
26ft sailboat, Morris Francis, 1977 
Flush deck
Light tan deck, white hull with dark green stripes
Double ender 
Boom Gallows
Sails stowed on deck
Windvane, stern hung rudder
All ports and hatches closed and locked
Bubble viewing hatch ( companionway slider)
Flying yellow quarantine flag

image1.JPG 
image2.JPG

Estimated location per Chris Parker's drift analysis

"At 5pm on Wed30, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-50N/80-56W, based on drift Sent from my iPad
At 5pm on Thu31, I now estimate Dagny might lie near 30-59N/80-50W, based on drift from wind of 10mi, in direction 030T.
I'll reiterate: Of course, all of the above is only an educated guess, and the possible errors compound over time...cheers...Chris."

image4.PNG

Estimated drift route per Chris Parker

image5.JPG

"Dagny was spotted December 23rd at 5:30pm, reported by the USCG, at 27-03.7N 79-16.1W. 24hrs after drifting off."

*****************


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## Bleemus

A recent sighting in the North Atlantic of a trimaran that flipped during a transatlantic race in 2009. It had a ton of growth on it but it was floating. 6 years. 


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## oceangirl

Another volunteer and I are using active captain to email, ship stores, marinas, restaurants etc along the coast of the projected drift route. Chris's latest advice shows that we need to focus more on Florida ( My emails stopped just south of Halifax) South all the way to ft pierce.

So Please pass the word. if you have suggestions on another resource we might be overlooking please let me know. I attached the search area, though I'm including North Carolina due to a (probability wrong) gut feeling.
Erika

Here is Chris's email to the recover coordinator Glenn at SSCA

******************
On Jan 5, 2016, at 7:21 PM, Chris Parker <[email protected]> wrote:

Glenn:
The main problem is that just after the last day covered by my previous drift/set analysis the wind direction/speed became quite variable due to an approaching ColdFRONT. And that's been the case (various wind speeds & directions) since then. Assuming aircraft looked in the search area I previously suggested, then Dagny was not where I previously suggested. And since that's the case, I wouldn't know whether Dagny was N or S or E or W of the previous prediction...so I wouldn't know what sorts of wind she encountered.

It has been 13 days since Dagny began floating, so the exponential errors in assumed set/drift are now greater than any skill we could impart from guessing what wind Dagny has encountered.

For instance, on January 1 through January 4 wind was NNW, averaging about 15k. With a NNW wind, Dagny could have drifted back into the Gulf Steam off N or C Florida. From January 4 night thru tomorrow, wind has been stronger, but mostly N-clocking-E.

If Dagny managed to stay out of the GulfStream, then she would have drifted S, and could be near or within 60 miles of Cape Canaveral...then, with the strong NE<E wind since yesterday, she could be blown to shore along Florida. So, if she remained out of the GulfStream, then I'd look along the Coastline/Beaches from near or S of Canaveral to N Florida.

If she was driven into the GulfStream for part of the time in early January, then she could moved N an unknowable distance before being driven toward the Coast the since late January 4.

It's probably a good idea for folks to keep their eyes open anywhere from Florida N of FtPierce to all of Georgia. Sorry I can't help more...Chris.

-- 
Chris Parker

Weather Forecasting & Vessel Routing
Weather & Communications - Hardware, Software, Sales, Consulting, Books,
Seminars

www.mwxc.com
Marine Weather & Communications LLC (and dba Marine Weather Center)
5130 Medulla Rd
Lakeland FL 33811
ph 863-248-2702
fax 863-248-4666

*****************


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## Cruiser2B

I'll keep an eye out as I head off Cape Henry, VA over this weekend. Will be going up to 10miles out Fri thru Sunday. 
A remote chance sure but I'll keep a watch for it.


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## capta

I don't wish to be unkind, but it sounds as though losing his boat may have saved his life.


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## oceangirl

Cruiser2B said:


> I'll keep an eye out as I head off Cape Henry, VA over this weekend. Will be going up to 10miles out Fri thru Sunday.
> A remote chance sure but I'll keep a watch for it.


Thanks for your help.


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## midwesterner

Oceangirl, have there been any updates and other sightings? Has Gil gone back to France to see his family? I can really relate to his story and dream of sailing. I am continuing to hope that he is reunited with Dagny.


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## oceangirl

midwesterner said:


> Oceangirl, have there been any updates and other sightings? Has Gil gone back to France to see his family? I can really relate to his story and dream of sailing. I am continuing to hope that he is reunited with Dagny.


Not sure, I know Gil was trying to find his way to France ( he works remotely so was saving up for a plane ticket).

Must be hard to leave such an unresolved situation. 
I'll post an update as soon as I can.


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## Port Clyde Me

Interesting thread. Any word on the boat? I watched this unfold over on CF, and provided quite a few poignant comments. Won't get into that now. He must have done OK with his "loans". I read he's now back in France. I wonder what the flight cost. 

Over on CF, he recently (yesterday?) mentioned that he would continue "writing" (although, he's not a writer) about his travels, yet mentioned that he would no longer be posting on CF due to it no longer being a boating matter (paraphrasing). Not quite sure what that meant. 

Hope people who actually lose boats ultimately find their lost boat. Interesting story, it surely is. Have never before actually seen one quite like it.


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## MarkofSeaLife

oceangirl said:


> midwesterner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oceangirl, have there been any updates and other sightings? Has Gil gone back to France to see his family? I can really relate to his story and dream of sailing. I am continuing to hope that he is reunited with Dagny.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure, I know Gil was trying to find his way to France ( he works remotely so was saving up for a plane ticket).
> 
> Must be hard to leave such an unresolved situation.
Click to expand...

Erika, I applaud you faith in Gil.

You are a better person than me.


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## Oc1

Any resolution? Despite what he might or might not have done its got to be crushing to lose your boat. 
So hypothetically what are the legality's of someone finding this boat? Say a guy and his buddy are out fishing and see it floating by? I'm not talking about morally or the right thing to do. I was just curious if they could keep it if they claimed salvage rights?


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## mbianka

Port Clyde Me said:


> Hope people who actually lose boats ultimately find their lost boat. Interesting story, it surely is. Have never before actually seen one quite like it.


Sometimes there is a happy ending. I sail a Nonsuch 30. There is a book called WITHOUT RIVAL that tells the true story of a Nonsuch 30 that was sailed over to Europe from Canada. There it was cruised for a year or two. Owner had to fly back to Canada for business. He had a Greek friend who had a "dream" of sailing across the Atlantic. So he let him sail his Nonsuch back. Freinds "dream" lasted until the first bad weather and decided he did not want to sail anymore.  Flagged down a cargo ship and abandoned the boat near the Azores I think. Nonsuch drifted across the Atlantic and was found in South America. Owner went down picked it up took it back to Canada and it is still sailing today.


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## Faster

mbianka said:


> ......Owner went down picked it up took it back to Canada and it is still sailing today.


I remember that incident, but did not know that the boat was recovered and still in use.. Great story!


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## Capt Len

At anchor in the Canaries, Bill flew back to Holland to see his aged parents. Left the vessel (48' steel motorsailer) with the two Egyptian crew.When he returned to resume the voyage, boat gone. No place to put his only possession, the tooth brush. Flew home to BC a tad disillusioned .Time passes. Americans invade Granada. French photographer attends and takes a picture of the harbour. Shows it at a wine function in Rome.Bill's son ,working in the flim industry, see it and phones home. Bill goes down and gets authorities on the job. One crew has disappeared and other in jail for murder .Local fisherman had boat. Takes possession and sails/drifts to Venezuela to fix absolutely everything. Gets back to Florida and sells for enough to pay for the trip. Came home and died of throat cancer.


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## Faster

Sheesh, Len... not exactly an uplifting tale, that one!


----------



## mbianka

Faster said:


> I remember that incident, but did not know that the boat was recovered and still in use.. Great story!


Another facet about this story is since there was only one person on board the Nonsuch when it was sailed back across the Atlantic the insurance company refused to insure it's loss. Which made the recovery expense on the owners dime. Still better than just throwing $100,000 into the ocean.


----------



## midwesterner

I'm not clear what impact it has on insurance that only one person was on board the Nonsuch. Does the insurance company maintain that one person on a boat is inadequate crew and so they refused to pay based on it being considered negligence? Does that mean insurance companies do not recognize singlehanded sailing?


----------



## Bleemus

Not being able to keep a proper watch will void standard insurance. It's usually in the fine print. If you want to singlehand you pay more. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## midwesterner

OK, thanks. That's a bummer.


----------



## oceangirl

Gil is back in France with his family. He has begun repaying the loans given to him when his vessel first disappeared, even though many have said to keep the money as a gift to get back on his feet. Great guy, hope his vessel turns up. 
Thanks for the thought provoking posts.
Cheers
Erika


----------



## mbianka

oceangirl said:


> Gil is back in France with his family. He has begun repaying the loans given to him when his vessel first disappeared, even though many have said to keep the money as a gift to get back on his feet. Great guy, hope his vessel turns up.
> Thanks for the thought provoking posts.
> Cheers
> Erika


I'm thinking his vessel if still floating was blown back eastward and north during the Jonas storm last week. I was 1500 miles away off Culebra and the storm took the winds from east to south:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: RIDERS ON THE STORM


----------



## miatapaul

Oc1 said:


> Any resolution? Despite what he might or might not have done its got to be crushing to lose your boat.
> So hypothetically what are the legality's of someone finding this boat? Say a guy and his buddy are out fishing and see it floating by? I'm not talking about morally or the right thing to do. I was just curious if they could keep it if they claimed salvage rights?


If someone finds the boat and brings it back to port they are due reasonable salvage fees. Likely on a small boat like this the salvage would be more than the value of the boat, so they would have rights to keep the boat. If it were a multi million dollar boat, they would likely pay salvage as it would be much less than the value of the boat and likely to have insurance. But on a boat like this a tow of say more than a 100 miles would likely be more than the boat is worth.

And yes it would be morally right to claim salvage rights, as they should have there expenses reimbursed. Again salvage rights do not necessarily mean you get the boat, but perhaps put a lean on it. Otherwise they could just leave the boat there and report it's location as a hazard to navigation.


----------



## 2Gringos

You probably meant 'lien' on it, instead of 'lean', as it's a monohull it pretty much was built with the lean already in the fiberglass.....


----------



## miatapaul

2Gringos said:


> You probably meant 'lien' on it, instead of 'lean', as it's a monohull it pretty much was built with the lean already in the fiberglass.....


The joys of a cell phone keyboard/auto correct.


----------



## oceangirl

mbianka said:


> I'm thinking his vessel if still floating was blown back eastward and north during the Jonas storm last week. I was 1500 miles away off Culebra and the storm took the winds from east to south:
> THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: RIDERS ON THE STORM


Yep, so many systems went through. So many possible locations. She was closed up tight, so I think she is still floating . Good seaworthy design, she should fend for herself rather nicely, just got to get her spotted!!


----------



## Minnewaska

What are the chances she was stolen?


----------



## killarney_sailor

midwesterner said:


> I'm not clear what impact it has on insurance that only one person was on board the Nonsuch. Does the insurance company maintain that one person on a boat is inadequate crew and so they refused to pay based on it being considered negligence? Does that mean insurance companies do not recognize singlehanded sailing?


One of the features of our insurance (Jackline policy from IMIS) is that you are allowed to have only two people on board. Some companies require more than two for long passages.


----------



## oceangirl

Minnewaska said:


> What are the chances she was stolen?


We think slim to none. Her engine was not operable and she was locked up tight.


----------



## Port Clyde Me

oceangirl said:


> We think slim to none. Her engine was not operable and she was locked up tight.


Very interesting, oceangirl. Who is "We"? Are you related, or maybe the new girlfriend?

Regardless, the saga (con, perhaps?) continues over at the "Moderators R Us" cruiser forum. 

I like this recent post from "The Writer" (haha), and yes, I quote: _"I'd take Paypal, but loans only, I don't take donations: e-mail address"_

Loans only. Hmmm. Right! Got it! Need any beta blockers, per chance? I wonder if the insurance paid up, as planned. Or maybe "the *ami*" successfully sailed it back to France, plus insurance? A true "coup de gras!" Bravo!


----------



## bigdogandy

Port Clyde Me said:


> Very interesting, oceangirl. Who is "We"? Are you related, or maybe the new girlfriend?
> 
> Regardless, the saga (con, perhaps?) continues over at the "Moderators R Us" cruiser forum.
> 
> I like this recent post from "The Writer" (haha), and yes, I quote: _"I'd take Paypal, but loans only, I don't take donations: e-mail address"_
> 
> Loans only. Hmmm. Right! Got it! Need any beta blockers, per chance? I wonder if the insurance paid up, as planned. Or maybe "the *ami*" successfully sailed it back to France, plus insurance? A true "coup de gras!" Bravo!


Wow - six posts in and you're comfortable insulting a respected member of the group (who is also the wife of a respected member of the group) and making wild accusations against someone you have never met.....hopefully your post above was meant in jest - if not, you should learn some manners.


----------



## Port Clyde Me

bigdogandy said:


> Wow - six posts in and you're comfortable insulting a respected member of the group (who is also the wife of a respected member of the group) and making wild accusations against someone you have never met.....hopefully your post above was meant in jest - if not, you should learn some manners.


I kept it somewhat short, and to the point. Should you wish to acquire a more detailed view of my opinion on this "saga", please read through the long thread over at that other place. I was the only person offering cogent advice.

How's the weather in Key Largo today? A little chilly here in Asia.

Lastly, a "post-count champion" does not an interested circumnavigator make. Food for thought.

Have a nice day.


----------



## FSMike

I was having a pleasant morning until Port Snide made an appearance.
Oh well, it's time to clean out the bow locker.


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

FSMike said:


> I was having a pleasant morning until Port Snide made an appearance.
> Oh well, it's time to clean out the bow locker.


I'll come and help...


----------



## Port Clyde Me

As someone once opined about sail cloth, "_Ya pays yer money and ya makes yer choice_". Or, something like that.


----------



## Don L

FSMike said:


> I was having a pleasant morning until Port Snide made an appearance.
> Oh well, it's time to clean out the bow locker.


:batter


----------



## SailingStNick

I believe I read correctly in the "other forum" that the boat owner has already paid back some of his paypal loans.


----------



## newt

That was a troll, pure and simple. That someone would come over from CF with a nasty attitude and no redeeming value to his posts just comments on his character. In short: Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## Port Clyde Me

newt said:


> That was a troll, pure and simple. That someone would come over from CF with a nasty attitude and no redeeming value to his posts just comments on his character. In short: Don't feed the trolls.


Au contraire, mon ami. Not a troll, whatsoever. I've been a member here at SailNet for over a year, yet I just rarely post. I followed Oceangirl's unending (and somewhat baffling) pursuit of this topic with interest over at 'that other place', and when I read "_We think..._" I had to point out the fact that "_No, darling, not ALL of us think..._".

Now, since you're obviously familiar with my lengthy attempt at advising The Writer over at 'the other place' with logical and cogent advice on how to quickly find his boat when he was still typing from the Bahamas, then you are well aware that there was no trolling. There, or here. Thank you. With that now said, when I smell nonsense, I like to point it out sometimes.

If, by chance, you'd like to buy him a new boat, then please have at it, Newt.

Cheers


----------



## oceangirl

Port Clyde Me said:


> Very interesting, oceangirl. Who is "We"? Are you related, or maybe the new girlfriend?
> 
> Regardless, the saga (con, perhaps?) continues over at the "Moderators R Us" cruiser forum.
> 
> I like this recent post from "The Writer" (haha), and yes, I quote: _"I'd take Paypal, but loans only, I don't take donations: e-mail address"_
> 
> Loans only. Hmmm. Right! Got it! Need any beta blockers, per chance? I wonder if the insurance paid up, as planned. Or maybe "the *ami*" successfully sailed it back to France, plus insurance? A true "coup de gras!" Bravo!


Sorry took so long to reply. I don't really think you are looking for any answers from me..? But just for clarity. I've never met Gil. We email back and forth occasionally. His boat Dagny has not been spotted as far as I know. Gil has begun paying folks back, though most don't want it. I know there needs to be a countering voice, skeptics are good and healthy, especially when there is money involved. If you keep it from being personal, you'd be more effective.if you are who I think you are, you provided some very interesting feedback, feedback that I found helpful. So thanks for that.

Hopefully you will never be in a position to need this kind of help, but if you are, the boating community will help you. That's what we do, help each other, and there is no shame in that.

Cheers
Erika


----------



## Port Clyde Me

oceangirl said:


> Sorry took so long to reply. I don't really think you are looking for any answers from me..? But just for clarity. I've never met Gil. We email back and forth occasionally. His boat Dagny has not been spotted as far as I know. Gil has begun paying folks back, though most don't want it. I know there needs to be a countering voice, skeptics are good and healthy, especially when there is money involved. If you keep it from being personal, you'd be more effective.if you are who I think you are, you provided some very interesting feedback, feedback that I found helpful. So thanks for that.
> 
> Hopefully you will never be in a position to need this kind of help, but if you are, the boating community will help you. That's what we do, help each other, and there is no shame in that.
> 
> Cheers
> Erika


No apologies needed, Erika. Moreover, I'm happy that you found my feedback interesting. I suppose that the main point that I was making over at Moderators R Us (oops, sorry for being personal) was that the poor chap needed to quickly take out the stops and make a concerted effort (on his own and by himself!) to find his boat immediately after it went missing. The logical approach was a search by air after the initial short search by boat produced no results. What I found baffling, and please allow me to state "quite suspicious", was that he floundered around typing notes on his blog, visiting cruising forums, and hanging out in West End cafes. Please forgive me, yet that type of action smells like a con artist, not a person that "just lost their boat and home and all belongings". I cannot even imagine doing what he did. I was born at night, yet I wasn't born "last night". Thus, and call me odd if you like, I tend to smell nonsense from a mile away. I've been sailing for 48 years (I'm now 55). Had any of my friends, or any of my family members, sat around typing a diary on a blog instead of actively searching ON THEIR OWN for their lost boat, I'd ask "You did what?!", in utter disbelief. Yes, I'm very much STILL in disbelief.

Hence, when you stated "We think that...", well, I just wanted to know who "We" was, and maybe more importantly, why "We" thought that way.

Should we all offer the most assistance we can in times of need? Absolutely. Yet in my humble opinion, something in Denmark doesn't smell right in this saga.

Take good care.
John


----------



## bob77903

Port Clyde Me said:


> No apologies needed, Erika. Moreover, I'm happy that you found my feedback interesting. I suppose that the main point that I was making over at Moderators R Us (oops, sorry for being personal) was that the poor chap needed to quickly take out the stops and make a concerted effort (on his own and by himself!) to find his boat immediately after it went missing. The logical approach was a search by air after the initial short search by boat produced no results. What I found baffling, and please allow me to state "quite suspicious", was that he floundered around typing notes on his blog, visiting cruising forums, and hanging out in West End cafes. Please forgive me, yet that type of action smells like a con artist, not a person that "just lost their boat and home and all belongings". I cannot even imagine doing what he did. I was born at night, yet I wasn't born "last night". Thus, and call me odd if you like, I tend to smell nonsense from a mile away. I've been sailing for 48 years (I'm now 55). Had any of my friends, or any of my family members, sat around typing a diary on a blog instead of actively searching ON THEIR OWN for their lost boat, I'd ask "You did what?!", in utter disbelief. Yes, I'm very much STILL in disbelief.
> 
> Hence, when you stated "We think that...", well, I just wanted to know who "We" was, and maybe more importantly, why "We" thought that way.
> 
> Should we all offer the most assistance we can in times of need? Absolutely. Yet in my humble opinion, something in Denmark doesn't smell right in this saga.
> 
> Take good care.
> John


Ok, your "ODD" ......


----------



## cshrimpt

Port Clyde Me said:


> Should we all offer the most assistance we can in times of need? Absolutely. Yet in my humble opinion, something in Denmark doesn't smell right in this saga.
> 
> Take good care.
> John


If you read his blog, it's too detailed to be a scam. He's just an unfortunate sailor who was so seasick he couldn't properly anchor his boat. If he hadn't taken his Delorme with him, we probably wouldn't have ever heard about him. He never asked for money and he didn't give a sob story. Most of the commentary about his plight is posted by 3rd parties who have zero first hand knowledge of what happened.

I believe him.

Lesson learned: Always leave the AIS running when anchoring unattended!

CS


----------



## Port Clyde Me

cshrimpt said:


> If you read his blog, it's too detailed to be a scam.
> 
> CS


I disagree. When done correctly, scams involve a great deal of forethought. I read his blog.

Cheers


----------



## Port Clyde Me

bob77903 said:


> Ok, your "ODD" ......


Correct spelling of the contraction "you're" is something many folks miss, yet I'm an editor, so please forgive me.

Take care


----------



## smackdaddy

Clyde - I read the "Tragedy Strikes" thread at CF. I think you actually had some good advice in the beginning - but you got too emotionally involved. And you got banned. So did most of us from that Clown Car of a forum. 

But now you're still too emotionally involved in this whole thing. You're getting a little hysterical if you ask me.

Who gives a damn? If Oceangirl wants to take up a cause, so what? Chill bro.

BTW - when did you live in Austin? Great town.


----------



## Port Clyde Me

smackdaddy said:


> Clyde - I read the "Tragedy Strikes" thread at CF. I think you actually had some good advice in the beginning - but you got too emotionally involved. And you got banned. So did most of us from that Clown Car of a forum.
> 
> But now you're still too emotionally involved in this whole thing. You're getting a little hysterical if you ask me.
> 
> Who gives a damn? If Oceangirl wants to take up a cause, so what? Chill bro.
> 
> BTW - when did you live in Austin? Great town.


Point well taken. I'll tone it down. Originally hailing from the great North East, I suppose I do get *TRUMP*ity from time to time.

Yes, Austin is a great town. I lived there from '78 through '79. Although I do still occasionally visit Tejas, I haven't been down Austin way since I lived there. I can imagine that it has changed substantially over the past 37 years.


----------



## bob77903

Port Clyde Me said:


> Correct spelling of the contraction "you're" is something many folks miss, yet I'm an editor, so please forgive me.
> 
> Take care


Ok, you're (you are) right, and odd....


----------



## Port Clyde Me

bob77903 said:


> Ok, you're (you are) right, and odd....


I know what you mean, bob. Calling a spade, a spade, is odd in this day and age. There was a time, in the not so distant past, when people embraced critical thought. It's so odd.


----------



## RobGallagher

I've been following this thread with guarded interest. If one coughed up some dough or donated some valuable time to the search effort, then oh please do speak up. If one is just looking for an outlet for one's trumpet, one just make oneself look silly. Of course it could be a scam, a crime, an accident, or poor seamanship. Every single person who has read this thread understands the options and weighed the odds for possible cause and outcome. We don't need Prof. Trumpet to educate us.

We all embrace critical thought. Thought being the key word.


----------



## bob77903

Port Clyde Me said:


> I know what you mean, bob. Calling a spade, a spade, is odd in this day and age. There was a time, in the not so distant past, when people embraced critical thought. It's so odd.


Critical thought? Oh, you mean YOUR opinion.....just call'n a spade, a spade, my opinion....cya


----------



## newt

Speaking of the good old days...Wasn't it nice when you gave a person a benefit of a doubt, helped someone in need or otherwise believed in humanity without being railed upon? I remember those days well, and plan on continuing in that thread not matter what is said on this or "that other" forum. 
Sure there are a lot of crooks out there, but I have been taken advantage of a whole lot more by people saying they were there to protect me than sailors that state they lost their boat.
Just let us spend our money how we want to. As an editor, you probably don't have much to spend anyway and have to be much more careful. As an old fart I like to give, and if you were derelict at my harbor I would probably help you out.


----------



## Port Clyde Me

newt said:


> As an editor, you probably don't have much to spend anyway and have to be much more careful.


No offense, newt, but do you have any idea what you're talking about? Obviously, you'd be very $urpri$ed. I don't edit for a 4-page weekly gazette in Smallville.

As for the poor sailor, this is basically all I know to date:
1) A fellow posts a thread about his lost boat.
2) He provides a link to a blog (with photos of said boat).
3) People send him money, others call out the 5th fleet.
4) He states that he has now flown to France.
5) End of story.

Do I have the story about right?

Regardless, nobody knows the guy, and nobody has ever seen the boat. Pretty cool story. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Bleemus

Port Clyde Me said:


> No offense, newt, but do you have any idea what you're talking about? Obviously, you'd be very $urpri$ed. I don't edit for a 4-page weekly gazette in Smallville.
> 
> As for the poor sailor, this is basically all I know to date:
> 
> 1) A fellow posts a thread about his lost boat.
> 
> 2) He provides a link to a blog (with photos of said boat).
> 
> 3) People send him money, others call out the 5th fleet.
> 
> 4) He states that he has now flown to France.
> 
> 5) End of story.
> 
> Do I have the story about right?
> 
> Regardless, nobody knows the guy, and nobody has ever seen the boat. Pretty cool story. I'll leave it at that.


I followed this guy on YouTube during his whole refit. He had a lot to learn. He made many mistakes with probably the biggest one is going to sea with no experience and not having the judgment to turn around when he became violently seasick an hour out of Miami. He has learned a lesson. I saw no evidence this was some elaborate scheme for a few hundred dollars from donors who felt sorry for him. Spending thousands on a boat, thousands on a refit for a few hundred bucks in a scam? Really?

If you were half the reporter you claim to be you should have done your homework a bit better by getting a bit more background on the person of interest. I am guessing Fox News?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Port Clyde Me

Bleemus said:


> I followed this guy on YouTube during his whole refit. He had a lot to learn. He made many mistakes with probably the biggest one is going to sea with no experience and not having the judgment to turn around when he became violently seasick an hour out of Miami. He has learned a lesson. I saw no evidence this was some elaborate scheme for a few hundred dollars from donors who felt sorry for him. Spending thousands on a boat, thousands on a refit for a few hundred bucks in a scam? Really?
> 
> If you were half the reporter you claim to be you should have done your homework a bit better by getting a bit more background on the person of interest. I am guessing Fox News?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm not a reporter. I'm an editor. Moreover, it's somewhat important to point out that this thread is once-removed; i.e., it wasn't started by the poor sailor himself but by a member here who is championing his cause on multiple sites. Fox news? I won't respond to that directly. Homework? It was done. I watched the same videos and read the same blogs and posts that I assume you watched and read. "A few hundred bucks"? I highly doubt that you or I or anyone could possibly know the real number. What I do know is that the person posted that he was basically "broke", so I posit that what might seem a small pittance to some might appear to be a life-sustainingly large monetary amount to others.

Who knows? Who cares? Right?

Personally, I feel that there's a lot missing from this story. It doesn't disrupt my day in any way, and it's actually quite an interesting saga. From what I remember him saying, he was hanging out in America for around 20 years (doing what? who knows? VISA status? who knows?) and hadn't seen his aging parents for 10 of those years. He then scraps together enough cash to buy an old Morris and fix her up. He then sets sail on his new life adventure, with the stated plan of bringing the world to you via Internet blogs and video uploads. With a reported $350.00 US in liquid funds to his name he starts a thread titled "Tragedy Strikes!". Good impact factor and shock value, wouldn't you agree? In fact, it's the same title I'd choose if I wanted to start a scam. I'd follow it up with plenty of heartfelt prose and sad stories of ocean folly, much like he did. I could go on, but, well...

Good thing he grabbed the passport, laptop, and LAPTOP CHARGER before stepping ashore. 

Take care.


----------



## Bleemus

"Good thing he grabbed the passport"

Yeah, if I were clearing customs in the Bahamas I would leave my passport on the boat. :facepalm


----------



## Port Clyde Me

Bleemus said:


> "Good thing he grabbed the passport"
> 
> Yeah, if I were clearing customs in the Bahamas I would leave my passport on the boat. :facepalm


It's the *CHARGER* I wanted you to notice. Think about it. The passport is a given.

Ciao


----------



## bob77903

Port Clyde Me said:


> It's the *CHARGER* I wanted you notice. Think about it. The passport is a given.
> 
> Ciao


More critical thought?

In Texas we got other words for critical thought....BULL SHI*


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Port Clyde Me said:


> It's the *CHARGER* I wanted you to notice. Think about it. The passport is a given.
> 
> Ciao


So.e small boats don't have good inverters or electrical set up so any time going to shore they try to charge the laptop while doing emails.

Also some older laptops (like my last one) have a battery life of 1 hour. So I always had to charge to download just 1 bit of pornography.


----------



## Bleemus

Port Clyde Me said:


> It's the *CHARGER* I wanted you to notice. Think about it. The passport is a given.
> 
> Ciao


Sigh. His engine was dead and his batteries were too. He is a software programmer. What is so evil about wanting to charge your laptop and check emails? I seriously don't know why you have a hair across your ass for this guy. Put on your tin foil hat! The great Dagny conspiracy to rob the Internet has to be revealed! 

I could say more but I am busy making sure no one finds out we faked the moon landing. LOL

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Port Clyde Me

bob77903 said:


> More critical thought?


Yes. And, the more I think about this tale, the more intrigued I become. Boat gone. Guy gone. Money gone. It's almost "textbook".

Or, it could be a poor chap that lost a boat and all of his belongings and decided it best to sit around in a cafe typing sad stories instead of actively searching for his possessions. Here's a coin. Flip it. I pick "tales".

It all has me thinking. If it was a scam, it's a VERY cool one! For example, why stop with a small boat sailing to the Bahamas? Take your iPhone to the Amazon. Find some group of non-native white people helping the destitute indigenous population. Film the head honcho (get a good head shot), and all the half-naked poor children running around. Make sure to focus on the ones crying, with big puppy-dog eyes. Start a blog stating that the head honcho is YOU. Then start a thread titled "Tragedy Strikes!", and fill it with terrible stories of the unexpected flood, lightning strikes, and lack of funds. Make sure the PayPal link is not hard to find.

Anyway, just thinking out loud. I love the anonymity of the Net! I could be anyone, or they could be me! Fun.


----------



## bob77903

Port Clyde Me said:


> Yes. And, the more I think about this tale, the more intrigued I become. Boat gone. Guy gone. Money gone. It's almost "textbook".
> 
> Or, it could be a poor chap that lost a boat and all of his belongings and decided it best to sit around in a cafe typing sad stories instead of actively searching for his possessions. Here's a coin. Flip it. I pick "tales".
> 
> It all has me thinking. If it was a scam, it's a VERY cool one! For example, why stop with a small boat sailing to the Bahamas? Take your iPhone to the Amazon. Find some group of non-native white people helping the destitute indigenous population. Film the head honcho (get a good head shot), and all the half-naked poor children running around. Make sure to focus on the ones crying, with big puppy-dog eyes. Start a blog stating that the head honcho is YOU. Then start a thread titled "Tragedy Strikes!", and fill it with terrible stories of the unexpected flood, lightning strikes, and lack of funds. Make sure the PayPal link is not hard to find.
> 
> Anyway, just thinking out loud. I love the anonymity of the Net! I could be anyone, or they could be me! Fun.


What did they say the definition of a "troll" was...


----------



## Bleemus

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## smackdaddy

Port Clyde Me said:


> Yes. And, the more I think about this tale, the more intrigued I become. Boat gone. Guy gone. Money gone. It's almost "textbook".
> 
> Or, it could be a poor chap that lost a boat and all of his belongings and decided it best to sit around in a cafe typing sad stories instead of actively searching for his possessions. Here's a coin. Flip it. I pick "tales".
> 
> It all has me thinking. If it was a scam, it's a VERY cool one! For example, why stop with a small boat sailing to the Bahamas? Take your iPhone to the Amazon. Find some group of non-native white people helping the destitute indigenous population. Film the head honcho (get a good head shot), and all the half-naked poor children running around. Make sure to focus on the ones crying, with big puppy-dog eyes. Start a blog stating that the head honcho is YOU. Then start a thread titled "Tragedy Strikes!", and fill it with terrible stories of the unexpected flood, lightning strikes, and lack of funds. Make sure the PayPal link is not hard to find.
> 
> Anyway, just thinking out loud. I love the anonymity of the Net! I could be anyone, or they could be me! Fun.


Sounds like you're jealous of his success...which says as much about you as it does him.


----------



## newt

I have thought about this for a while, and I don't think Port Clyde thinks he is a troll. He really believes he is saving us from ourselves, and defending the truth. No amount of correspondence will convince him otherwise. OK, I'm okay with that. I would just tell him (and others with the same "critical thinking" message) that you cannot convince others of the error of their ways if you will not examine your own thought processes.
I don't want this to be an attack on you, but you dance around your own credentials and yet require so much of others. It is easy to see the world as awful, harder to see it as sunny. But being sunny is so much nicer to live in.
Good luck in your muckraking.


----------



## smackdaddy

For the most part, I agree newt. But I also think Clyde was a pretty good voice of reason early on in that thread. I wondered the same things he did (and said) when reading it. I'm glad he brought them up.

Like I said earlier, I don't think he's a troll (that's such an overused word - which I know something about). I just think his critiques have gone past it's Use By date at this point.


----------



## miatapaul

I do have one question though, would the Bahamas let you clear into the island with only $350 to your name? Seems they would want some sort of evidence that you are going to leave and not be a drain on there social welfare resources. I thought if you showed up in a boat you had to show that you had the resources to pay for your intended stay and be able to get back home. 

He looses his boat because of poor decisions, while I wish him no ill, likely the boat is gone for a good reason. Perhaps the boat drifting off saved his life! I doubt he is trying to scam, but he does seem to be a bit flighty. His YouTube channel shows him trying to build a gyro copter but he ran out of money, then he partially rebuilds a boat till he runs out money, then takes off cruising. Does not seem to think things through.


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## newt

smackdaddy said:


> For the most part, I agree newt. But I also think Clyde was a pretty good voice of reason early on in that thread. I wondered the same things he did (and said) when reading it. I'm glad he brought them up.


I have no problems with critique. But this thread had a different purpose- an attempt to locate the boat by fellow SN'er. His bringing the critique to this thread is what I have problems with. An editor should understand context.
If he wants to start his own thread on the dangers of castaway sailors and their scurvy hands lifting resources from the rest of us, he should go for it.


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## Port Clyde Me

miatapaul said:


> ...while I wish him no ill, likely the boat is gone for a good reason. Perhaps the boat drifting off saved his life!


Like you, I actually wish the chap no ill will. Probably not a scam, yet still, it's all a bit "fishy".


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## Port Clyde Me

smackdaddy said:


> Sounds like you're jealous of his success...which says as much about you as it does him.


And let's not forget, it's difficult to insult a chap who's *not even here*. Not one post in this thread. Is he even a member? He was swimming around over at Moderators R Us back in January. Looking for work, or a boat, or sympathy, or $omething. Thus, no need to be too concerned about hurt feelings.

Kind of like discussing your dislike of woodwinds on a violin forum.


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## colemj

miatapaul said:


> I do have one question though, would the Bahamas let you clear into the island with only $350 to your name? Seems they would want some sort of evidence that you are going to leave and not be a drain on there social welfare resources. I thought if you showed up in a boat you had to show that you had the resources to pay for your intended stay and be able to get back home.
> 
> He looses his boat because of poor decisions, while I wish him no ill, likely the boat is gone for a good reason. Perhaps the boat drifting off saved his life! I doubt he is trying to scam, but he does seem to be a bit flighty. His YouTube channel shows him trying to build a gyro copter but he ran out of money, then he partially rebuilds a boat till he runs out money, then takes off cruising. Does not seem to think things through.


We haven't been to a single country yet that looked into our financial situation further than the monies necessary to check into the country - Bahamas are no exception.

I think if you show up in a boat, you inherently have the resources to leave again. If all goes pear-shaped, they simply deport you when your immigration status is up. Or jail you if you refuse to leave.

No problem with burdening the social welfare resources - they know who you are...

Mark


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## oceangirl

miatapaul said:


> I do have one question though, would the Bahamas let you clear into the island with only $350 to your name? Seems they would want some sort of evidence that you are going to leave and not be a drain on there social welfare resources. I thought if you showed up in a boat you had to show that you had the resources to pay for your intended stay and be able to get back home.


Great question!! They won't deny you entrance (usually). If they suspect low funds they will only grant you a few days or so. I found this out when my hubby and his buddy went to check us in at Bimini. Brian had put on a nice button down shirt to check in, but they still looked a motley pair as we had a bit of a rough ride from marathon. So, motley beards and hair, then they wrote unemployed ( hubby) and self employed ( crew) on the visa applications. We are on a sabbatical, it is true we do not have jobs, but we should of worded it better . Immigration did ask them where they get the money to travel, my hubby answered savings, but by then the immigration officer was pretty suspicious. So, we received a 7 day visa(!), my hubby pointed out that we are aboard a cruising vessel and asked for 90. So immigration changed it to a 30 day visa. So they are pretty sensitive to a potential boat bum situation. Since Gil works from his computer, I bet he gave a better answer then we did .

Ive always thought this would make a good thread, WWYD? finding your vessel is adrift, but I haven't seen it. Cruisers forum had some great offshoot threads about using AIS, Spot, InReach, and VHF ( integrated) to try to locate a vessel.

This thread is in a section for reporting, lost, stolen, vessels in danger. So not sure if it was meant to discuss, just inform.

So much time has passed, I thought for sure Dagny would wash up along the carolinas. I hope a ship didn't run her down. :-(


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## miatapaul

colemj said:


> We haven't been to a single country yet that looked into our financial situation further than the monies necessary to check into the country - Bahamas are no exception.
> 
> I think if you show up in a boat, you inherently have the resources to leave again. If all goes pear-shaped, they simply deport you when your immigration status is up. Or jail you if you refuse to leave.
> 
> No problem with burdening the social welfare resources - they know who you are...
> 
> Mark





oceangirl said:


> Great question!! They won't deny you entrance (usually). If they suspect low funds they will only grant you a few days or so. I found this out when my hubby and his buddy went to check us in at Bimini. Brian had put on a nice button down shirt to check in, but they still looked a motley pair as we had a bit of a rough ride from marathon. So, motley beards and hair, then they wrote unemployed ( hubby) and self employed ( crew) on the visa applications. We are on a sabbatical, it is true we do not have jobs, but we should of worded it better . Immigration did ask them where they get the money to travel, my hubby answered savings, but by then the immigration officer was pretty suspicious. So, we received a 7 day visa(!), my hubby pointed out that we are aboard a cruising vessel and asked for 90. So immigration changed it to a 30 day visa. So they are pretty sensitive to a potential boat bum situation. Since Gil works from his computer, I bet he gave a better answer then we did .
> 
> (


Interesting as I had always heard that they asked for financial documents to prove you could support yourself, perhaps the Caribbean is more accepting since it is such a short jump and likely have more long term visitors (months rather than just days) than places that you are more likely to get stuck in due to physical isolation. I know I was listening to a sailing podcast that was saying to try to get your visa for French Polynesia done in Panama because they seem to require less documentation than the US or other places and it is quicker and smoother. But it sounded like they required pretty much documentation as well.


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## miatapaul

Wrong thread


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## FSMike

miatapaul said:


> Interesting as I had always heard that they asked for financial documents to prove you could support yourself, perhaps the Caribbean is more accepting since it is such a short jump and likely have more long term visitors (months rather than just days) than places that you are more likely to get stuck in due to physical isolation. I know I was listening to a sailing podcast that was saying to try to get your visa for French Polynesia done in Panama because they seem to require less documentation than the US or other places and it is quicker and smoother. But it sounded like they required pretty much documentation as well.


I've been told that French Polynesia used to require a bond for a stay of any length, but I think that has been done away with. They were more the exception than the rule.
Noonsite.com probably has up to date info on such matters.
That's for visits, immigration/permanent residence is a much different matter in most countries, including the Bahamas. 
Much different lol$.


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## mbianka

Saw this link about a boat ashore that was abandoned off the Bahamas in December:
A shipwreck about to sail - Kiawah to remove sailboat from beach - Post and Courier
Was beached in late December got me thinking where Dagny might be since they were lost in the same general area.


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## midwesterner

Port Clyde Me said:


> Like you, I actually wish the chap no ill will. Probably not a scam, yet still, it's all a bit "fishy".


I don't know what you find fishy. I think everything is legit. I've exchanged e-mails with OceanGirl and Gil, the owner of Dagny. He seems like a young guy with an adventurous spirit who attempted to cruise on a budget. He does computer programming and web design and had hopes of earning money through his own consulting business by telecommuting on the move. I would do that in a heartbeat if I had his computer skills.

I don't think he could do a Bahamian anchoring because he had lost an anchor. He had sailed in rough water beating to the Caribbean and was tired, seasick and weak from not being able to keep food down for days. He had done an emergency anchor in a poorly protected place the night before and couldn't get his engine to start. The next day he was unable to get his anchor up due to no engine and being weakened. He cut his rode and sailed to the nearest port to make repairs.

Still sick, weak and sleep deprived, he anchored in the bay with his spare anchor (That probably means one that was smaller than his other one and with less chain). He went ashore in his dinghy to recover, and eat and, research repair options. He was able to see his mast the whole time. He felt better once ashore, was able to keep food down, and then fell asleep on a park bench in view of his mast. Exhausted, he slept longer than he expected and, when he checked on his mast again, it was now gone.

There was some report that his boat had been spotted by a small plane that reported that it appeared just as he had described, gangway closed and sails furled dragging an anchor line.

By the time he got someone to take him out in a boat, Dagny was no longer in the reported location.

He said that he attempted to get some computing work to earn money but that internet access where he was is slow and spotty.

I never read any solicitation from him for money. It was initiated by friends. Out of pride, he has sworn that he will pay all donations back.

He has flown home to France to visit his parents, build his consulting business, save money and try again to realize his dream of cruising.

It all sounds believable to me and I can sympathize. I could see the same thing happening to me. I've not had the same sailing experience but I am an old backpacker and canoe trekker and I've had similar experiences.

I've been on backpacking trips where I found a camping spot after a day of hard hiking in bad weather and slipping in mud. I've gotten my tent up and fell into my sleeping bag thinking, "I should have put in more tent stakes and set a wind tether line. If the wind picks up, I could be in trouble, but I'm exhausted, I sprained my ankle, I'm weak and need to eat and warm up my core temperature. I'll do it later. Hopefully the wind won't get worse." Sometimes it happens.

Once I thought, "There, good, I got the tent set up, now I can get the rest of my gear out of the rain and turn the boat over. With all this rain the water will probably be rising." When I looked, my canoe was about 100 feet out from the shore. I was able to swim to it. I got lucky.


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## miatapaul

midwesterner said:


> I don't know what you find fishy. I think everything is legit. I've exchanged e-mails with OceanGirl and Gil, the owner of Dagny. He seems like a young guy with an adventurous spirit who attempted to cruise on a budget. He does computer programming and web design and had hopes of earning money through his own consulting business by telecommuting on the move. I would do that in a heartbeat if I had his computer skills.
> 
> I don't think he could do a Bahamian anchoring because he had lost an anchor. He had sailed in rough water beating to the Caribbean and was tired, seasick and weak from not being able to keep food down for days. He had done an emergency anchor in a poorly protected place the night before and couldn't get his engine to start. The next day he was unable to get his anchor up due to no engine and being weakened. He cut his rode and sailed to the nearest port to make repairs.
> 
> Still sick, weak and sleep deprived, he anchored in the bay with his spare anchor (That probably means one that was smaller than his other one and with less chain). He went ashore in his dinghy to recover, and eat and, research repair options. He was able to see his mast the whole time. He felt better once ashore, was able to keep food down, and then fell asleep on a park bench in view of his mast. Exhausted, he slept longer than he expected and, when he checked on his mast again, it was now gone.
> 
> There was some report that his boat had been spotted by a small plane that reported that it appeared just as he had described, gangway closed and sails furled dragging an anchor line.
> 
> By the time he got someone to take him out in a boat, Dagny was no longer in the reported location.
> 
> He said that he attempted to get some computing work to earn money but that internet access where he was is slow and spotty.
> 
> I never read any solicitation from him for money. It was initiated by friends. Out of pride, he has sworn that he will pay all donations back.
> 
> He has flown home to France to visit his parents, build his consulting business, save money and try again to realize his dream of cruising.
> 
> It all sounds believable to me and I can sympathize. I could see the same thing happening to me. I've not had the same sailing experience but I am an old backpacker and canoe trekker and I've had similar experiences.
> 
> I've been on backpacking trips where I found a camping spot after a day of hard hiking in bad weather and slipping in mud. I've gotten my tent up and fell into my sleeping bag thinking, "I should have put in more tent stakes and set a wind tether line. If the wind picks up, I could be in trouble, but I'm exhausted, I sprained my ankle, I'm weak and need to eat and warm up my core temperature. I'll do it later. Hopefully the wind won't get worse." Sometimes it happens.
> 
> Once I thought, "There, good, I got the tent set up, now I can get the rest of my gear out of the rain and turn the boat over. With all this rain the water will probably be rising." When I looked, my canoe was about 100 feet out from the shore. I was able to swim to it. I got lucky.


Really was just a result of inexperience and poor seamanship. He was unable to secure his boat properly after loosing his first anchor. Likely should have come in to a harbor and taken a slip, would have been a lot less than his boat, but that is using hindsight, and basic seakeeping skills.

I am not one who thinks you should have to be rich to cruse, but I think it is irresponsible to leave the country with only $300 to your name. One should have at least a backup plan other than going onto the web.


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## midwesterner

miatapaul said:


> Likely should have come in to a harbor and taken a slip, would have been a lot less than his boat, but that is using hindsight, and basic seakeeping skills.
> 
> I am not one who thinks you should have to be rich to cruse, but I think it is irresponsible to leave the country with only $300 to your name.


Without a working engine, he was probably planning on looking for a tow to a slip or a boat yard. The first priority would be to stop throwing up, I guess.

I'm not one to judge him too harshly. I won't say that it could never happen to me.

The only way that money would have changed the picture is if he were wealthy and could have immediately chartered a private plane to launch a search by air.


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## Alfred Barnes

Hello, all! My first post. I've been acquainted with Gil at RadioPreppers.com for some time and was following with interest his sailing adventure, since I'm from the East Coast and grew up sailing sunfish in the Wrightsville Beach sound. Anyway, I was just trying to figure out if Gil's boat had ever been found, and so far, no indication it has.

I've read "most" of the posts in the thread, good stuff, mostly 

I, too, was wondering if it had been stolen, or pirated. I still thinks it's a possibility. Or, it could have sunk in a storm, who knows? 

Anyway, thanks to oceangirl for the public service. As an amateur radio operator, I'm familiar with the concept, as is Gil. There's nothing fake about him, other than wanting to increase his readership. A trait of journalists, I've found.

One thing, though. I don't think I would ever cut an anchor line, unless I was going down. Cheers!


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## midwesterner

Alfred Barnes said:


> Hello, all! My first post. I've been acquainted with Gil at RadioPreppers.com for some time and was following with interest his sailing adventure,...
> 
> ...One thing, though. I don't think I would ever cut an anchor line, unless I was going down. Cheers!


It's easy for any of us to say we would never do something until we find ourselves in a similar situation. He said that he was weak and depleted from hours of throwing up due to seasickness. He anchored during somewhat of a crisis situation. The next morning, with an engine that wouldn't start, and with him physically weakened from seasickness, he said he was physically unable to retrieve his anchor. If it was lodged behind some object, and with no engine to be able to pull on top of it and beyond it, it could be impossible to bring up the anchor. In his weakened state, and sailing solo, it would have been dangerous for him to try and dive to his anchor.

His plan of action did not seem completely illogical to me: Cut the rode and sail to the nearest port. Anchor with the spare anchor, Get well and start exploring engine repairs and finding a new anchor. The fact that he passed out for too long and didn't check his boat frequently enough where unfortunate mistakes. I would like to say that nothing like this could ever happen to me but I don't like to tempt karma in that way.


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