# older boats really cheap - bargain or bottomless pit?



## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

I live in the Mass. area and I have been watching older boats in the 25-30 foot size on craigslist and ebay go for really really cheap. Think $2000-$6000 for good condition 70's - early 80's boats. 

I am guessing these are cheap because its the end of the season, no one wants to buy, and people want to sell before they pay winter storage costs.

How good is a a 30 year old boat in good condition that is being sailed on the weekends. Is a 30 year old worth that much less than a 10 year old boat?

If I find a sound boat for $2000 with good sails and buy a new engine am I better off than getting a newer boat?

Plan is to do weekend sailing and maybe sail down to NY and DC next summer.

Thanks,
Toben


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I have been looking at very cheap boats over the last year or so. I believe that most of the cheap boats (< $3000) that are advertised (Craigslist, Yachtworld, eBay, etc.) are not even worth the minimal purchase price. There are simply too many repairs and issues. This is the reason the owners are dumping them.

After a fruitless year of searching for a cheap boat, I changed my search methods. Rather than looking for cheap boats through advertising venues such as those listed above, I started running my own Craigslist want-ads and networking at marinas and yachtclubs. My goal was to target boat owners who didn't necessarily know they wanted to sell. I found many people who had boats sitting on trailers or in barns that hadn't been used (or maintained!) and just hadn't thought about selling because the boat was "out of sight, out of mind". I was pleasantly surprised to find that many of these boats were in better condition than the cheap boats being advertised.

The moral of the story is this: Use alternative methods to find cheap boats and bargains! 

I ended up finding a Helms 25 for $400. The boat had belonged to an elderly gentleman who passed away a couple of years ago. It was sitting on his property in decent condition. His son was happy to have it go to someone who was going to put it to use again.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am cheap and I have been burned many times (I am not just talking boats) by trying to get too much with too little. I still look for deals, but I look for basic functionality that works over lots of bells and whistles that don't work reliably if at all.

I also agree with kwaltersmi. I got a lot of leads from posting a Craigslist "wanted" ad in the Boats section (does anyone ever really read the Wanted section?) and from posting a duscussion item about my search on a local sailing forum. If you are selling any of your own stuff and you have a purchase in mind, mention it in your ad as a possible trade for or towards. I got a car top snark for a guitar. I posted the guitar for sale in Musical Instruments and mentioned that I was looking for a car top sailboat. I got a reply rather quickly from a guy who wanted a guitar but really didn't have the cash, so he was watching the list for deals. The boat in ihis backyard was the furthest thing from his mind until he saw my ad. Now I have a bigger boat and need a motor. In trying to sell the Snark, I mention that and someone offers me a 10 HP for it! Unfortunately, that is more than my little 17 footer needs, so I passed on it, but I think you get the point. Who knows - somewhere there may be someone who would rather have your old sofa than his old Alberg...


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

It all depends on how handy you are and how much time you can devote to salvaging a lost cause. There's usually a reason for boats showing up on last-ditch sites like craigslist or ebay, and it's not because the seller doesn't know the value of his boat.


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## Sabre66 (Feb 3, 2007)

I found an old Columbia Sabre, on the hard in Manchester Ma. The owner wanted $2,500 I offerd him $1,000 and it was mine.Since then it's been 4 seasons of restoration and roughly $20,000 in materials and sails. When I first bought her I had no idea what I was getting into....but I'd do it again now that I have a fully restored boat worth roughly $8,000


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I found my first boat privately as it was listed on a club bulletin board. I bought it on August 31 and got $8,000 off the initial asking price following a survey and the previous owner's desire to close the deal. So it wasn't cheap, but it was a bargain to the point that it's ten years later and I could still get what I paid for it, or close to it.

You have to put the six to eight grand I've invested in it as "running costs", however!

The idea struggling to be seen here is that a boat as a bargain vs. being a moneypit is very relative. Due to dockage, haulage, maintenance, periodic replacement of things that wear out and insurance, even a free boat in good condition is not a bargain...merely a somewhat shallower moneypit. I avoid a lot of costs by doing my own work and thinking very hard about which improvements are truly needed, plus my own tolerance for missing conveniences. Probably the cheapest _manner _in which to run a bargain boat is anchored out, but then you want to spend on better than recreational level ground tackle, and you need a dependable tender to go to and from, and you need a way to keep the battery charged in your absence. Not every place allows anchoring, however, and moorings are generally not free anymore.

Of course, if you run your boat without an engine or electrics, like the Pardeys, you'll cut costs, but don't expect me to see you at night unless you keep those oil lamp lenses pristine!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Generally, getting a really low-priced boat is going to be more expensive than getting the exact same make/model boat that is in better shape, as the cost of repairing and restoring a boat is generally more than the additional cost of purchasing the more expensive boat that is in useable shape to begin with.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

If you want a money pit, buy a Porsche, and leave it rusting in the drive way. Better still, buy the Porsche on finance, then pay interest on a depreciation asset.

A well-built boat will hack the pace, and will not lose much value. Maintainence must be done, and that is an essential, and the vast majority of it will be your own efforts.

It is a commitment though.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

toben said:


> How good is a a 30 year old boat in good condition that is being sailed on the weekends.


That depends on a number of factors, not the least of which is: How well has it been maintained? Except for the oddly unusual case, I would almost be willing to bet that the 30 year old boat that was only sailed by grandma to go to church on Sunday will be in worse shape than one owned by an experienced sailor that regularly cruised or raced it. Why? Because an experienced sailor that regularly cruised or raced a boat is far more likely to have performed the regular, necessary maintenance needed to keep the boat from failing him or her. (Not to mention some nice upgrades, perhaps.) The thing you have to be careful of on a previously-raced boat is that it hasn't been beat to death.

I imagine it's possible to pick up a good mid-70's 25-footer for around $6k. You are almost certainly not going to find a good mid-70's 30-footer for that, nor a later model 25-footer, IMO. _Unless you luck out._ The PO of our boat actually picked her up from donated boat organization. This was a rare case where the boat didn't really belong there (and nobody really knows why the 1st owners did that), and somebody else happened to be in the right place at the right time.

In any event: No matter _how_ "cheap," no matter how good a shape she _appears_ to be in, no matter how good a deal you _think_ you're getting: Get a pre-purchase survey done. Otherwise you may find yourself being another guy that bought a $3k boat and ended-up investing another $20k - and a _lot_ of sweat.

Jim


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Reading this two things come to mind.

1. Are you restoring an old boat to save money or because you love the process? If just to save money look around for a boat in good condition at a bargain price. Some of us like the work because it is rewarding and the maintenance is fun.

2. The bigger the boat the bigger the expense to fix it up and not in a linear way. Bigger boats mean bigger gear that costs many times that of a smaller boat. Also more expensive sails, more complicated systems - electrical and engine, etc... Stick to a small boat and not so bad.

On my 26 a really nice mainsail is $2000 + tax. On a C&C30 is 3500 + tax. Old boats often have crap for sails so this should be remembered.

On the 26 I recored cockpit floor last year. I left the outer two inches to have something to use as a level guide and to have something to tab on to. Took about 3 weekends - 2 long days each time. The outer two inches caused problems and started to look like hell this winter so I did a "quick fix" in the spring. Ground it down, applied resin and cloth, fairing & paint. Didn't quite come out as I wanted and it was launch time. Later in the summer on vacation I spent 3 days cutting, grinding, chiselling to remove all the old core in that outer 2 inch strip, replacing that core, rebuilding the deck & refinishing. Should have done this the first time. Total time approx 7 days or part days when combining Spring and summer time spent.

After doing this I still had regular seasonal maintenance with plumbing, brightwork, cleaning, antifouling and other tasks. Takes time.

After launching I had picked up an old laser that had some previous glass work done and needed refurbishing. No real deadlines so it was afun project. It had the mast tube torn out at one time and needed basic cosmetic repairs and refinishing. So I dragged out my grinder, Random Orbital Sander, resins, cloth, fairing compounds and paints. Over three weekends I had the hull cleaned up and painted, the deck, cockpit and non skid the same, new hiking strap, mainsheet block, cam cleats, lines, etc.... all done and the boat sailing. Minimal cost, a lot of wow factor and a really fun boat.

Of course then we had a major setback when the mast tube repair let go and the deck was shattered - result of grown men (6' 3") in a big wind sailing a dingy. That happened on a Sunday and by the following Friday the mast tube was back in place, the foredeck replaced, the glasswork and refinishing complete and the boat sailing on that Saturday.

My point? A big job on a little boat is a lot simpler than a little job on a big boat.

I took b4 & after pictures of the laser and then pictures along the way on the deck replacement. http://laserproject.angelfire.com/ Unfortunately I did not do the same with the larger boat. It too has a website but none of the maintenance work is shown on that site - more just the boat and its experiences. http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/fulltilt2/

Mike


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

Sabre66 said:


> I found an old Columbia Sabre, on the hard in Manchester Ma. The owner wanted $2,500 I offerd him $1,000 and it was mine.Since then it's been 4 seasons of restoration and roughly $20,000 in materials and sails. When I first bought her I had no idea what I was getting into....but I'd do it again now that I have a fully restored boat worth roughly $8,000


Yes this is what I am trying to avoid. However if the guy has it in the water now, and does sail it regularly I am wondering how bad it can be.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

toben said:


> Yes this is what I am trying to avoid. However if the guy has it in the water now, and does sail it regularly I am wondering how bad it can be.


There's a _lot_ that can be wrong with a boat and she'll still float. And sail. Just read "Gear & Mainenance," "Buying a Boat," and "General Discussion" here on SailNet, for a while, and you'll get an idea .

Jim


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

A bunch depends on the seller's motivation(s), too. Many boats are taking up space in storage or on the lawn, & the owner weighs the fun factor vs a little cash in hand: "Two grand, just get it out of here."

Maybe it belonged to a relation, or to a relationship, that has died. Maybe it was a passion, but sailing no longer means so much in a busy life. Maybe the owner had a bad experience in the boat and is scared of it. Maybe they desperately need cash, and that old boat is the easiest thing to shed.

Less negatively, sometimes people buy bigger boats and wish to bestow their older baby on someone just starting out. Or they admit they haven't time to do honor to the boat, and they want it to go to someone enthusiastic who will make it sail again. Altruism isn't to be sneezed at.

I expect to buy my dream boat in a year or two -- a San Juan 21. (Stop laughing!) It'll probably cost under $2k with rusty trailer, two sets of sails + spinny, anchor, cushions, stanky upholstry, dodgy keel wire, ready to sail with the usual list of niggly things that need fixing. Even new boats have such a list. Don't be blind to the reality of older boats; but don't be afraid of them, either. You can have lotsa fun at less-than-Bristol. This sport is as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be; that's one of its glories.  

"At either end of the social spectrum, there lies a leisure class." --attributed to Tom Patey


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

> I took b4 & after pictures of the laser and then pictures along the way on the deck replacement. http://laserproject.angelfire.com/


Mike, you do GREAT work! The Laser looks fantastic!


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

I keep seeing references to what a boat is worth, usually in reference to market value. Okay, so you spend a thousand, then $20K to restore (hopefully better than new), and invest 4 years sweat equity. Market value is about $8K. Ok, were you doing this in an attempt to make money restoring old boats (bad plan), or to go sailing (good idea)? What would replacement costs with a new boat be? Two, three, four times your investment? Quicker to buy a new boat, but much more cash. The restoration still sounds like quite a bargain. Like I said, you lookin' to sell, or sail?


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## Sabre66 (Feb 3, 2007)

seabreeze_97 said:


> I keep seeing references to what a boat is worth, usually in reference to market value. Okay, so you spend a thousand, then $20K to restore (hopefully better than new), and invest 4 years sweat equity. Market value is about $8K. Ok, were you doing this in an attempt to make money restoring old boats (bad plan), or to go sailing (good idea)? What would replacement costs with a new boat be? Two, three, four times your investment? Quicker to buy a new boat, but much more cash. The restoration still sounds like quite a bargain. Like I said, you lookin' to sell, or sail?


I bought her because she's 1 of 148 built in the 60's based on the old 5.5 meter designs. She's also a bit of sleeper on the PHRF racing circuit...does extremely well when we get a reaching leg.
I never imagined she would end up costing that much money after restoring her. That having been said we frequently beat boats that initially cost 10 times as much and cost the same, if not, more too maintain.


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## Rickm505 (Sep 4, 2005)

As been mentioned, if you enjoy working on a boat, it truly becomes a labor of love. Not only do you learn just about every system and port and hatch on the boat, but you also take pride in what you've acomplished.

Having said that. Engines, rigging, sails are expensive items. Let me restate that.. Everything 'marine' is expensive, but those items more so. If you're not in a hurry, you might find a deal on a boat with a new engine or sails/rigging. If not, call the local sail loft, and get a quote, and the local Yanmar guy for prices, and start deducting from the asking price of whatever you're looking at.

Remember, surveys are negotiating tools and seldom tell you much about the engine.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you are looking for a specific boat and can't find an affordable one in good condition, it can make sense to buy a fixer-upper and invest in it.

If you only have a couple of grand but will have another couple next year and the year after that ad infinitum, and you don't want to wait three or four years to save up, then it can make sense to buy a fixer-upper and work on it as funds come available.

If you have the money to buy a boat in better condition, but are looking at boats in poor condition in a attempt to save money, that won't happen.

Regardless though, it is likely that fixing a boat up will prove more expensive in the long run, than buying one that has been nicely maintained.


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## cranki (Jun 11, 2006)

I bought a 1973 Pearson 30 for $7,000 last fall. The sails are fairly new. The original A4 engine has been very well maintained and still purrs away. It had been on the hard for 3 years. All I've done to her is lots of scrubbing, polishing, waxing, sanding and varnishing. I've put less than $500 into her including 2 new group 27 batteries. And we are out sailing on a safe, seaworthy boat that sails pretty damn well.

Ebay and craigs list are not necessarily a "last ditch" effort to get rid of an old boat. Think about how much effort a broker is going to put into selling a boat that will net him under a grand, Not much motivation or incentive there. They guy I bought the pearson from told me, truthfully, that the yard he had it at was making more off of storage than they would selling it.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Sabre66 said:


> I bought her because she's 1 of 148 built in the 60's based on the old 5.5 meter designs. She's also a bit of sleeper on the PHRF racing circuit...does extremely well when we get a reaching leg.
> I never imagined she would end up costing that much money after restoring her. That having been said we frequently beat boats that initially cost 10 times as much and cost the same, if not, more too maintain.


Exactly my point. And don't forget how unique she looks in a world of plumb bows.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bobmcgov said:


> [...]
> I expect to buy my dream boat in a year or two -- a San Juan 21. (Stop laughing!) It'll probably cost under $2k with rusty trailer, two sets of sails + spinny, anchor, cushions, stanky upholstry, dodgy keel wire, ready to sail with the usual list of niggly things that need fixing.
> [...]


No laughter here; I did my research and decided that was just about the perfect boat for me and my family. But the towing weight was just above the maximum for my older smaller Odyssey, the parking length was slightly too much and I had a budget cap even lower than yours, so I scaled it down to the next step and got the Newport 17. I didn't get all the canvas you list; just the basic 2 piece set. But my keel and cable are new. I said this earlier, but will reitereate; I think it is far better to get a working unit with less features than one with all the bells and whistles with little or nothing operational. One that won't float at the time of purchase would be really scary.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

_a previously-raced boat is that it hasn't been beat to death._
Check the local race results, if the boat has finished well in local races than I would bet that there will be some issues with the rigging, hull, rudder etc....... not to mention blown out sails.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

jboatjack said:


> _a previously-raced boat is that it hasn't been beat to death._
> Check the local race results, if the boat has finished well in local races than I would bet that there will be some issues with the rigging, hull, rudder etc....... not to mention blown out sails.


Or the owner did maintenance regularly and upgraded or replaced equipment often; if the boat was on a recent winning streak, the sails probably are not blown out - that would make the boat go too slow to win races.


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Funny thoughts here ... some think that a boat that was raced is like a Taxi as a used car. Funny thing is that I find a boat that was cruised and never raced can be worse. To race a boat successfully it must be maintained in top form. Many boats where performance is not a priority have `crappy sails and sometimes odd systems on board. To each his own I would say...

Mike


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## jgmartis (Nov 25, 2007)

*info on restoring old sailboats*

book on restoring an old boat. Do a search for sailingsmall.com

check out the sailing stuff on this sight. search for shortypen.com

jim


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

If you're looking a old boats, simpler is better. You don't want an inboard engine, or pressure water, or too much electrical wiring. Anything complicated is going to cost money to maintain or replace.

Find a Pearson Ariel with outboard power, or some proven boat by a proven designer. I like Carl Alberg's designs, not fast but seakindly and will keep you safe. Keep the number of through-hull fittings to a minimum.

Outboard power's fine, so are kerosene lamps, hand-pumped water, alcohol 2-burner stove, and no headliner or paneling. Keep it simple and you will spend your time sailing rather than replacing stuff that you didn't need in the first place.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

Old or New it is still a Money-Pit!
Every mans' passion comes at a cost, wether it be golf, retoring old cars, building race ones or boating of all sorts, and even travel. Having fun costs money!
I bought my boat brand new almost five years ago and have not yet stopped spending on it but instead kept finding new ways to spend money on it and I am not even close to being finished! There will always be something I will want to change or add to suit my style and comfort, not to mention electronics nowadays seem to have a very limited life span before they become obsolete. Sails and engine also have their lifespans as does all my gear and clothing. I have looked at brand new boats at the boatshow and realized I need an additional cash flow to outfit them to my taste, they simply do not come customized to everyones liking - there is a generic finish that requires personal finishing.
Ultimately if I had the time, skill & resources those old wooden boats of the pre-seventies look very interesting and would make a wonderful retired life project. (wishfull thinking)


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

having an older boat that is PAID for allows you to fix things at your own speed and as your budget allows also! Which is why I went for a 82 Oday


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

nolatom said:


> Outboard power's fine, so are kerosene lamps, hand-pumped water, alcohol 2-burner stove, and no headliner or paneling. Keep it simple and you will spend your time sailing rather than replacing stuff that you didn't need in the first place.


Ah, a fan of the Pardeys!

If I was looking for a daysailer or weekend cruiser, I would focus on the rigging condition and the structural integrity of the boat. It is possible to find an ugly, dirty boat with bundles of corroded wiring, filthy hoses, and "roads to nowhere".

Occasionally, the engine might be in better shape. Some guys tinker with engines and let everything else rot, because a) they motor all the time, or b) the engine maintenance is the only thing they like or can compentently manage.

The solution then is to buy the boat and use the cruddiness as a lever to lower the price. Then...just tear out EVERYTHING that isn't structural...all wiring (except the engine), all water tanks, nasty gate valve seacocks, the head that doesn't work, the evil holding tank, the busted foot pumps, the plaid covered cushions...everything. Get a new head, new batteries, new battery cables and proper tie-downs, vents, switch...whatever. The old stuff is likely garbage.

You are left with a "bare boat". Buy a panel with six circuit breakers. Run two to new bilge pumps, two to nav lights, and two for LED cabin lights. Maybe a 12 VDC socket for a GPS.

Add charts, a pair of binoculars and a handheld VHF, and you are now equipped for coastal cruising. Is it minimalist? No, the Pardeys are minimalist. Is it sufficient? Certainly. My point? Don't even think of rehabilitating other peoples' mistakes or history. Just yank it out and start again with something simpler and KNOWN. You will spend money, yes, but you'll have a clean and simple machine in which to sail that is reliable (because it will be to code, right?) and you aren't tearing apart cabinetry to find hoses and wires from the '70s.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

I only vaguely recall who the Pardeys are, but if I think the way they do, then fine. I just think that if you have a solid design, hull, rigging, sails, ground tackle, then you can "improv" the rest, and be out sailing while the "perfect boat" folks are on the dock trying to perfect one of many "systems".

Can you tell I came of age with the Alberg/Tripp/Brewer/Garden/Herreshoff/Rhodes designs of the 60's? If it's coastal cruising in summer/fall conditions, then enjoy decent sailing by day, and minimal roughing it by night. Small cruisers weren't meant to be the Mariott. Summer camp is more like it, and ultimately more fun. If you want to stay in a hotel, there are lots of hotel chains.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*All boats*

All boats are bottomless pits but a fixer upper is NO DEAL! Trust me and many of the other long timers on here when they say spending a little more on a boat in good condition pays off.

My buddy & first time big boat owner knew everything and refused to take my or other friends advice. We tried to talk him into a very, very nice & exceptionally well maintained 1988 C-30 for a 30k asking price yet he chose the 17k ask 15k buy 1980 C-30.

The end of the story is nowhere in site and at this point, 15 months later, he now has, at last count, 37k invested in a boat still worth, on a good day, 19-20k.

Here's what he's had to do: New furler, new sails, new interior cushions, new running rigging, new bulkhead, new spreaders, new steering cable & chain, new keel bolts, new exhaust hose, removed the wooden laminate in teh keel stub & re-glassed it, new exhaust manifold & elbow, new water pump, new batteries, new wiring, new head, new plumbing, new running lights & mast wiring, etc. etc. and on and on. He's still facing an engine rebuild at minimum and about 30% of the deck needs to be re-cored. By the time he finishes he wil have well over 45k into a 20k boat and he's done 90% of this work himself...

Cheap boats are NO DEAL even if you do ALL the work your self. GET A SURVEY!!!!!!!

After 30+ years and 20+ boats I now only buy 1 PERCENTERS. A 1% boat is that needle in a haystack boat that is in absolutely pristine condition with maintenance, upkeep and upgrades done only with the best materials and care for quality. These boats are hard to find but they do pop up. You at least want a boat in the top 15%, condition wise, or it's going to cost you....

The devil is in the details. This is one of the drawers in the v-berth of our 1979 1 percenter. No mold, no scratches, no discoloration of the wood no drips, runs or sags in the varnish. The P.O. of our boat knew boats and boating so he finish sanded each of the boats drawers inside and out then varnished them to prevent & minimize mold, mildew and moisture absorbtion. A 1% is a boat that has been finished well above and beyond factory standards.... Did I mention that this boat is a 1979!!!! and this photo was taken in 2007. You get what you pay for especially with boats..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Very well said Halekai.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I concur. It's the way I kept my cruiser-racer...an icebox, an old car stereo, a Koolatron for beer, and a '70s depthsounder...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Still, is the object pristine varnish, or going sailing today?

While I can certainly admire your diligence, the future of sailing is not in an increasingly rarified "gold plated experience", but rather in throwing some pop and sandwiches below, and casting off on a regular basis.

You can have both, of course, and I was careful to cite in my initial post the importance of determining that the boat can be sailed without extensive rehab, but some "good old boat" are a shambles below, and functional on deck and up the mast. This level of function will serve many sailors, particularly if they are coming out of dinghies or racers. Six feet of flat surface to sleep on in a sleeping bag and a length of blue foam is going to be an improvement in those cases. Not everyone can go to a pristine vintage 35 footer as a first boat.

I did in 1999, but it wasn't pristine. It's better now. Had I wanted for "the deal", I never would have owned a boat.


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## pata_grande (Jan 15, 2004)

An interesting thread.

Before I bought my Ericson 32, I looked long and hard at every 30-33 foot boat on the market in my area within my price range. What sold me on buying my boat was the simple way it was equipped, the nice clean original condition the hull/structure was in, and the fastidiousness of the PO--he's rewired it, maintained the engine, and upgraded the sails and electronics, etc. I found the right boat for me, but it took time and patience.

But even after buying it, I dropped $2K on my own "refinements" and have spent plenty more dollars and time keeping her looking good and running well. I could easily spend another few grand tomorrow in toys (oh the dangers of that WM catalogue!) 

Still, if I'm going to have a vice, this is the one for me, and I have no regrets about putting money and time into my boat.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I guess I'm in a unique position with regards to a cheap boat. I paid less than $700 for mine and sailed it home in Force 9-10 conditions the following week. It came fairly well equipped so I like to say "I bought a $700 Genoa and it came with a boat." Does it have issues? Yes, being a glassed over wood boat it has some rot aft from a leaking hatch. Is it repairable, why yes, yes it is and for not that much money if I do it myself. What does it need? Some varnish, some normal wood restoration and maintenance and some updated electronics. Am I ahead of the curve? Do to the extremely low initial capital outlay, yes. However, my situation is very unique and shouldn't be used as a guideline.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

The most expensive boats are cheap boats. 

But for some, the repair/restoration process is a true passion and brings fullfillment. I agree that "fixer-uppers" are rarely if ever good deals, but that doesn't mean no one should ever buy them.


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## txmatt (Nov 27, 2006)

The key to buying a cheap boat is to know what you are getting into. If the boat needs some work, even major work, that is labor intensive, but not necessarily material intensive, it might be worth it, even financially speaking if you have the time to do the work yourself. If this is your first boat and you don't have much experience with sailboats get someone who does to look the boat over and tell you what it needs (or hire a surveyor). Even then, unless you are very well aware of what your are getting into stay away from the "bargains."


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

IMHO, the term "bargain" is definitely a misnomer in the case of boats. No point in repeating what almost everyone else has said. That being said; there definitely _is _a place for boats that are below market value due to the need for extensive work. It's just that the purchase decision needs to be with eyes wide open.

While they are decidedly _not a bargain_; a boat requiring extensive work _could be an opportunity_.

Think of it this way; _everything_ on a boat, save the hull (and possibly the deck), is a consumable item. For someone with the right skills and resources a (_sound_) bare hull, or a boat that needs to be _taken back_ to a bare hull, can be an opportunity to create the boat of his dreams.

This is, however, _not_ the way for someone to get into their first boat on the cheap; which is where this entire discussion usually comes up.

Again, just MHO


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## Finallybuyingaboat (Aug 28, 2007)

I must admit, my situation was the exception to the rule, but I have managed to buy a REALLY CHEAP boat, and it is not going to sink me financially. When I bought it for $500, I set a budget of $1000 to get it in shape. Boat is a 23 foot grampian built in 1972. Cost to get it in shape:
Outboard $500 (May even get one for $400)
Cetol (reg & Gloss) $60
Deck Paint $40
1 sheet plywood $60
Fibreglass & Resin $80
Filler $40
Compound & Wax $25
Backing plates for Chainplates $50
Genoa blocks for t Tracks (pair) $45 (Ebay)
Various sanding paper, blocks, supplies $50


I figure once I am all done, I will have 150 hours into the boat, but will still be under the $1000 mark. So for $1450, I have a fun toy to enjoy with my kids.

Hey, you could spend $10 000 on the boat I bought, but why bother? I guess it all comes down to what you are willing to accept in terms of appearances and how much of the work you can do yourself. How much better is that $4000 professional paint job than a carefully done roll & Tip that costs $250? Personally, i do not see the $3750 of value there, but there are people who can and do rationalize such expenses. I am not saying they are wrong in their view, but I am saying if you are creative and are able to really define the uses and priorities, you can find a cheap boat and have fun without spending huge amounts of money.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*expensive vs inexpensive*

Hello,

There is a real big difference between a cheap boat and a fixer upper. I will be the first to admit that I have champagne taste and a beer budget. I also would much rather spend my time sailing than working on the boat. I also hate loans and won't get one to buy a boat.

So, when I wanted to get a 28-32 foot boat, my budget was $20K tops. I ended up paying $15,000 for a 1986 Newport 28 in fair condition (I needed to keep some money around for the survey, sales tax, misc gear, etc.). It was most definitely NOT in great shape, but it was good enough to get me out on the water right away. 
Over the next few years I replaced the head, installed new batteries, bought new sails, redid all the exterior wood, and had a lot of fun and learned a lot about sailing.

I sold that boat this past spring for $14K.

One year ago today I moved up to a 35' O'day. Again, because of my budget, I refused to spend more than $35K. I could have bought a boat in better condition for a lot more, I could have bought one in worse shape for less. But this boat, while not perfect, allowed me to sail all year for next to nothing. Checking my records, I spent about $2000 on 'stuff' including chartplotter and VHF, additional anchor, new genoa sheets, winch parts, etc.

This winter I will address the cosmetic issues by cleaning the hull thoroughly, removing 21 years of bottom paint, redoing the exterior wood, etc.

This boat will never be a real beauty, but that's because I won't spend the time to have a boat like that.

Barry


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I think that's the point Barry. You got what you wanted; a sailable boat that won't grace the cover of Sail or Cruising World. (by your description)

Also a good point that; yes, you will put a lot of money into a boat like that, but it may not need to be immediate. It may be over a period of time. The key is to find a sound but cosmetically challenged boat with great potential.

It takes experience and a good eye, not mention good luck and timing to do that successfully.

The problem is when folks without the requisite knowledge and experience buy the "bargain" boat simply because; "Well it was HALF of what _HIS_ XXX Yacht cost!", thinking they got a bargain when they really got a bucket of headaches.


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