# Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery



## Sailphast (Mar 5, 2013)

I just purchased a Beneteau First 38 down in Annapolis. The boat is heading to Norfolk for a light refit and then I will need to get it up to Boston. I've never done this length of trip and was looking for some answers and tips. 
1. How long is the trip? 
2. Should I go up the Chessapeak or go outside? Mid May is the timeline. 
3. Suggested stopping points to fuel up maybe take a break maybe not?
4. Anything else????

Thank you


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Nice easy trip that time of year.

125 miles without stopping
26 hrs averaging 5 knots

Straight down the Chesapeake inside- 
Possible stops- dstances from previous pt

Solomons- Zanheisers-40 miles
Cockrell Creek-45 miles
Norfolk- 45 miles
Each is 8 hors at 5 knots 


Either go straight through the night in one day or get past the Potomac on day one and and be in Norfolk day two. It takes forever to go acriss the mouth of the Potomac ( 3 hours) and can be an adventure if wind opposes tide.

Or take three days


Dave


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Headed north I would go outside to Cape May, Block Island and then possibly Cuttyhunk to wait for the tide through the canal. However, on a new boat you might want to do the East River LI Sound route.


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## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

Leaving from Norfolk to Boston right?
Do not go up the Chesapeake it will add many miles and the trip down the Delaware stinks.
Weather will be your guide. I go into inlets safe for commercial shipping. Your next stop after Norfolk can be:
Cape May 140 miles
Atlantic City 30 miles north
Sandy Hook 75 miles (NY harbor entrance)
after that decide on inside or outside


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

What is the age and condition of this new to you boat?
Jim


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

For Norfolk to Boston -
Mid May is still slightly 'chancy' for an 'equinoctal gale' but not as prevalent as late March or April. Watch the development of weather systems, looking for the physical position of the Jet Stream (500 mb charts for Western Atlantic @ Ocean Prediction Center - Atlantic) ... if the Jet Stream is far to the north and fairly straight-line then OK; if the Jet stream is 'undulating' then stay close to the inside/coast.

Ditto to where any HIGH pressure system close to the coast is located .... If close to the coast off New England, then expect NorthEasterlies ... and a 'slog' beating, so stay 'inside' or close to the coast. 
If the H is off the coast and located near towards Bermuda or 'south of you', then expect SE to W-SW and smooth downwind/reaching sailing going 'north' going 'outside'.

If inside/coastal, here's some invaluable tips from a "tug driver" on passing through "hellgate" in NYC:
_General.
Use Eldrige Tide Tables to plan to cross Hell Gate at SLACK WATER. 
Your best bet is to plan the trip so as to keep moving, if you're ahead of schedule run slower rather than just stopping. As a tug guy I want any pleasure craft to be predictable, I am relying on it really, which means not going in circles in confined areas. If you must stop for a bit, going east through the river I would wait well north of the battery. From there south there is just too much current as well as tug, ferry, and dinner boat traffic to be tacking or motoring around with no purpose. People do, but you asked. 
Coming the other way there is plenty of room anywhere east of the Brothers, but you need to be aware of the little stuff, sand scows etc. coming off moorings, coming and going from Flushing Bay, and the other little creeks. Most traffic is passing trough. 
Listen to channel 13!! Most tug guys dont really want to talk to you, but they probably will. Your best bet is to listen so you know what is happening around you. If you want to talk make your life easier by making your transmissions short, and knowing the difference between one whistle and two both meeting and overtaking. Plenty of recreational passes through everyday. Its really not a huge deal, but if you do decide to hit slack water in all likelyhood you will encounter a greater number of commercial vessels. 
Another radio hint, listen to vessel traffic, the east river is channel 12, anything moving through the East River checks in at the Throgsneck or Brooklyn Bridge, and each time somebody checks in they get a rundown of all the traffic and their locations. It would be kind of like listening in on a weather net. Channel 12 is also anchorage control and the Kills south of the AK Railroad Bridge so dont get you landmarks confused.
Most of the commercial traffic especially the big stuff tries to hit slack water or within 30 minutes to an hour either side of it. Thats not to say there wont be traffic at all stages of the tide, but it is not uncommon to have multiple units on both sides of the gates stacked up waiting on each other to get through. A week ago I was fourth in line on my side coming around N. Brother Island. 
You need the current tables for slack water, the tide tables wont help you here. I would agree that if your boat can manage it ride the flood through planing to be at least to Rikers Island and hour before Slack at the gate, beware of the current from pier 17 through the Williamsburgh bridge as they are very strong here and you will not want to be against them.

Going North start your trip at the Battery 2 hours after the low. 

Going south start your trip from Throgs Neck 2 hours after high at the Battery.

Wear PFD's, stay in the center, have a sharp lookout for barge traffic coming around corners. Have your VHF on Ch13 and an aitr horn handy. Know what one blast means, as distinct from 2. Have a camera ready at all times for magnificant views, and 2 days after a heavy rain,a boat hook ready, if you see any bodies or other debris that may foul your passageway."_


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Sailphast said:


> I just purchased a Beneteau First 38 down in Annapolis. The boat is heading to Norfolk for a light refit and then I will need to get it up to Boston. I've never done this length of trip and was looking for some answers and tips.
> 1. How long is the trip?
> 2. Should I go up the Chessapeak or go outside? Mid May is the timeline.
> 3. Suggested stopping points to fuel up maybe take a break maybe not?
> 4. Anything else????


Can we assume that if it only needs a light refit it is in good shape? Or are you saving heavy work for Boston?

Do you have an EPIRB? Has the registration been changed? Life raft? What kind of crew? What are you doing for weather updates underway? If all you have is NOAA VHF weather radio get some good weather counsel before heading offshore. It's only a day out of VHF range.

Annapolis to Norfolk is usually about 18-20 hours under power on that boat. I'd leave Annapolis between noon and mid afternoon so you arrive in Norfolk in daylight. If you haven't picked a place yet I'm fond of Vinings Landing Marina. Good services, walking to restaurants, grocery, and West Marine. Easy access to Norfolk airport. Also easy access to the Atlantic when you leave.

Norfolk to Boston should be around 3 days (all "days" are 24-hour days, not daylight hours) straight through in most conditions. Winds permitting and boat condition allowing I'd sail the rhumb line to a point off Cape Cod.

If you want to hop your way up (small 30 gallon fuel tank, no jugs) you're likely to be five-ish days WITHOUT nights at anchor. You'll chew up a lot of time just getting in and out of port.

Regardless back off on engine speed. You should be able to get down to around 0.6 gph which will stretch your range substantially. If your boat has a JH Yanmar around 1800 rpm is good. You can go almost two days on a tank. Two or three five gallon fuel jugs wouldn't hurt.

If you can make Norfolk to Cape May you should be able to make Cape May to Manasquan, NJ (watch for wind over tide -- currents are strong also). Atlantic City is an easy inlet but a pretty short day. AC to Sandy Hook. Manasquan or Sandy Hook through the East River to LI.

Manasquan is a tricky inlet and does deteriorate quickly when the weather is bad.

Don't let people confuse you with discussion of tide. You don't care about tide. You care about _current_. There are much better sources of information today than the old "so many hours before high tide" approach to current prediction. See Tidal Current Tables .

I usually time my NE-bound transits to go through Hellgate between slack before flood and full flood. If you time it right you'll have a favorable current from Sandy Hook, through NY Harbor, up the East River, and well past City Island. It's another day from CI to Newport. At that point you might as well do the Cape Cod canal - more current issues.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Wow..... drooling 

Congratulation. Nice and fast boat. 
If boat is good shape, crews are level headed and competent and good weather window, I would go outside. 

Best is
Norfolk to Block Island to Hyannis to Cape Cod canal
If needed, stop by Cape May or Sandy Hook to LIS.

Like other said, use 5 kn per hours or 120 nm a day is a good number to judge your traveling time. 

Good luck


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Sailphast said:


> I just purchased a Beneteau First 38 down in Annapolis. The boat is heading to Norfolk for a light refit and then I will need to get it up to Boston. I've never done this length of trip and was looking for some answers and tips.
> 1. How long is the trip?
> 2. Should I go up the Chessapeak or go outside? Mid May is the timeline.
> 3. Suggested stopping points to fuel up maybe take a break maybe not?
> ...


1) That depends on how quickly you want to do this "delivery", of course...

2) Same answer as #1... Outside is far quicker, and saves you from having go go around Cape May Point on your way back down the Delaware... However, as you say you've never done a trip of this length before, and the run outside will involve an overnight off a desolate coast with no real bail-out options, it may not be the wisest idea to attempt that the first time out on a boat that is brand new to you...

3) If you do elect to go outside, choose your weather wisely, that is no place to be if an onshore blow develops... Likewise the Jersey coast... Sounds like you have no prior experience running inlets, avoid doing that run with any significant swell running. Chances are you'll wind up in Cape May either way, a very nice stop... From there I'd recommend Barnegat, then up to NY harbor...(I detest Atlantic City, and Manasquan is distinctly unaccommodating to sailboats) Again, going out around Montauk will involve another overnight, crossing 3 shipping lanes, so with your level of experience you'll probably be better off going up thru the Sound. Besides, the trip thru NY harbor is always a thrill, never gets old... Play the tides/currents right on the Sound, and it's not all that much longer than the run offshore...

Get yourself a copy of Eldridge, good luck, and enjoy...


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

I would definitely consider staying inside (Chesapeake to Delaware Bay). This will give you a chance to learn the boat, and give you plenty of places to stop if you find things that need to be fixed, or things you don't have aboard. My last few trips down the Delaware have actually been quite pleasant as I was lucky enough to have the wind and current in my favor. Stop at Cape May for fuel, provisions, and rest up before going off shore. (I usually stay at the South Jersey Marina and eat at the Lobster House which is close by.)


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SteveInMD said:


> (I usually stay at the South Jersey Marina and eat at the Lobster House which is close by.)


Lucky Bones is excellent. My friend is a local, he only takes me there.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Best is
> Norfolk to Block Island to Hyannis to Cape Cod canal
> If needed, stop by Cape May or Sandy Hook to LIS.


If going outside why fool with Block or the Cape Cod canal? Go out and around.



rockDAWG said:


> Like other said, use 5 kn per hours or 120 nm a day is a good number to judge your traveling time.


Units are important. Don't denigrate them. Knots are nautical miles per hour. Therefor knots/hour are nautical miles per hour per hour or units of acceleration. Meaningless in this context. The same applies to those who confuse amps and amp-hrs. Units are IMPORTANT.

Furlongs per fortnight make more sense than knots per hour. Please understand this stuff. It is important.



JonEisberg said:


> From there I'd recommend Barnegat, then up to NY harbor...(I detest Atlantic City, and Manasquan is distinctly unaccommodating to sailboats)


Can you elaborate? The First 38 draws nearly 7' if I can use Google correctly. I had a heck of a time with a shoal draft Passport 40 in Barnegat recently. The marina on the North side of the Manasquan channel (Hoffman?) right before the railroad bridge is fine and the fuel dock is on the t-head. In and out isn't bad at all. I agree they don't really understand sailboats (or weather for that matter) so I wouldn't plan to stay there, but as a fuel stop it seems more attractive to me than Barnegat.

Please educate me.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> If going outside why fool with Block or the Cape Cod canal? Go out and around.


I have never gone around Cape Cod. I am perfectly happy just to skip Chesapeake bay, Cape May, and Sandy Hook.

There is no law saying that you must go out all the way to Greenland. Who is minding my business.



SVAuspicious said:


> Units are important. Don't denigrate them. Knots are nautical miles per hour. Therefor knots/hour are nautical miles per hour per hour or units of acceleration. Meaningless in this context. The same applies to those who confuse amps and amp-hrs. Units are IMPORTANT.


Yes, my bad. I don't know why I typed kn/h. I actually paused, but somehow I forgot to come back to proofread it. I am sure everyone know what it meant. I didn't expect someone will ever care. 
Have you ever made mistake you or misspoken?


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

I brought my 35 footer home to Mystic from Florida a number of years ago. We came in at Beaufort, NC and stayed inside for a while with a stop at Annapolis. The trip up the Chesapeake included a harbor of refuge at Pt. Lookout. Beating past the Potomac in NW winds in the upper 30 kt range got old real fast. Yes, you do want to consider the wind forecast. With a new boat, you might want the Chesapeake for a proper shakedown, as someone else mentioned. Annapolis is a good place to look for repair parts. I got a new belt for my AP there. 

From Annapolis, we went through the C&D Canal and then to the Cape May canal. From Cape May we went directly past Montauk and into Fishers Island Sound. In your case, you would head for Block Island and give yourself a break. From there I would head for Buzzard's Bay. Depending on your endurance, you could stop at Cuttyhunk (short day) or Onset just outside the western end of the Cape Cod Canal if you needed to wait for a fair current.

Going outside Cape Cod instead of the Canal? SVAuspicious can't be serious. You do need Eldridge's to work the currents. from Block Island until you get past the Cape Cod Canal.

I made the trip from Cape May to Mystic in 2 1/2 days in mid May and motored the whole way, due to light air. The shipping was not the problem I expected, but you do need competent watch standers.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SVAuspicious said:


> Can you elaborate? The First 38 draws nearly 7' if I can use Google correctly. I had a heck of a time with a shoal draft Passport 40 in Barnegat recently. The marina on the North side of the Manasquan channel (Hoffman?) right before the railroad bridge is fine and the fuel dock is on the t-head. In and out isn't bad at all. I agree they don't really understand sailboats (or weather for that matter) so I wouldn't plan to stay there, but as a fuel stop it seems more attractive to me than Barnegat.
> 
> Please educate me.


You had a hard time in Barnegat Inlet and the anchorage ( Meyers Hole 1 and 2). Thats where we usually anchor, It is just past the channel leading back into Barnegat Bay on the starboard after transiting the back of the inlet.

The channe lmarked by small reds and greens past the first anchorage goes back toHigh Bar Yacht Club where we have also stayed and usually carries 8-10 feet back to the second anchorage. That is our normal stop over on our trip up the Jersey coast to the LI Sound every summer. Did some of it shoal in from Sandy? W took a trip there on land and it didnt look like they got much in the way of damage. Barnegat Bay areas did though I understand.

Dave did it change?

For those who have never done Barnegat, it can be a tricky inlet unless you know what you are getting into when you are going in it and can be dangerous in NE and E winds.

Manesquan( Cape May and AtlanticCity ) is one of the three good Jersey inlets we have found in terms of getting in. Virtually no shoals alongside the way in creating breakers across the channel. There is no anchorage area, Dave is correct on Hoffmans for overnighting at the bridge and also the fuel dock there. Face the current at the fuel dock as its fairly strong there. There also is a nice Marina after the first two bridges also. We generally aviod Manequan and going north push on to Atlantic Highlands.

We always stay at Utches so we can walk to everything, besides they are family friends of 30 years now when I used to live in the South Jersey area.

Luck Bones is a fairly good restaurant within walking distance. Lobster House inside is a tourist trap, but the outside take out deck is cool and the fresh fish market cannot be beat for avriety, price and freshness. Our next meal is at achorage heading north ( Usually barnegat) and its always a nicely grilled fish steak from there.

However three of the best restaurants in New Jersey are in Cape May proper.
The Ebbit Room in the Virginia Hotel, 410 Bank Street, and Frescos. The last two are owned by the same people and are next to each other. Fescos is Nnorthern Italian cuisine. Also the beats breakfast is at the Mad Batter...try their blueberry banana stuffed french toast with vermont maple syrup for decadence.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> If going outside why fool with Block or the Cape Cod canal? Go out and around.


I don't know, Dave - someone comes here asking "how long is the trip?", and "where are some good places to stop?", and sounding like they may never have done an overnight passage before, well... I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable sending them out and around Nantucket Shoals, and outside the Cape... (grin)



SVAuspicious said:


> > Originally Posted by JonEisberg
> > From there I'd recommend Barnegat, then up to NY harbor...(I detest Atlantic City, and Manasquan is distinctly unaccommodating to sailboats)
> 
> 
> ...


You may be right, I thought the First 38 was also offered in a shoal draft closer to 5.5', but who knows what he's bought?

I'll admit, I haven't been in Barnegat post-Sandy, but since the big scallop boats are still operating out of Barnegat Light, I'd imagine getting his boat inside to the anchorage would be do-able... Where did you have your problem, exactly?

My recommendation is based somewhat on the assumption that he'd likely stop in Cape May, and from there AC is a pretty short day, and Manasquan a pretty long one, so... You're right, if he's just making a pit stop for fuel, then Manasquan is probably preferable, certainly a quicker in and out...


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

If you do decide to go outside and it gets snotty remember deep water is your friend.

I would be VERY reluctant to run an unfamiliar inlet. If you feel you HAVE TO then there is no shame in asking for someone to pilot you in. I remember well having to enter at Cape Fear and although it was buoyed and one of the easier inlets I was VERY glad that I called up a passing shrimper and he slowed down to let me follow him in. [ and he threw a lb of shrimp into my cockpit. Me and the cat were well fed before I slept that night. 
*
If in doubt stay out.* Too many boats and lives have been lost trying to run an inlet in less than optimum conditions.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Have i missed something because NORFOLK VA TO BOSTON MA is more like 600 miles ?


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

If you're buying the boat in Annapolis and taking it to Norfolk for some work, then from Norfolk to Boston. I don't know if I'd go back up the bay to the Delaware after heading down. 

As Rich says this is a trip at that time of year that will be dictated largely by the weather 
(aren't they all? ) So as jsaronson says, I'd consider my option to look at going offshore to Block island..or making a jump to Cape May then on to block. Then up toward the cc canal.

Another alternative is to head to the Highlands from Cape May and then make a decision from there whether or not you want to stay inside or go outside to block. 

There's a dozen ways to do this trip...level of experience, weather, crew, soundness of vessel are all going to be deciding factors. If you go outside from norfolk, you'll be out of VHF range at points for anything but nearby traffic, certainly out of cell phone range, so long range communication would be prudent if not essential. as would life raft, epirb etc. 

Were you planning on having someone who has offshore experience onboard? The overnight from Norfolk to Cape May might be a good test of your offshore tolerance. ( weather permitting)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> Best is
> Norfolk to Block Island to Hyannis to Cape Cod canal


Uhhh, _HYANNIS???_

I'm guessing you mean somewhere else, right? (grin)


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Sounds like a fun trip. Cape May is a great place to stop. I second the recommendation of Lucky Bones and Utsches, although I am not sure you can get in there with your draft.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> There is no law saying that you must go out all the way to Greenland. Who is minding my business.


I didn't suggest going to Greenland. I go outside Cape Cod just like I go outside Cape Hatteras. Watch the weather and have contingency plans. Generally out is faster and safer. Less to run into. YMMV.



rockDAWG said:


> Yes, my bad. I don't know why I typed kn/h. I actually paused, but somehow I forgot to come back to proofread it. I am sure everyone know what it meant. I didn't expect someone will ever care. Have you ever made mistake you or misspoken?


I make mistakes all the time. I try to make new and creative mistakes that others and I can learn from. Units ARE important. A slip is one thing. Lack of caring demonstrates a lack of understanding. Part of the function of this board is to share information and knowledge. Consider yourself shared with. Units are important.

Example - if you have a calculation to do and carry the units through properly and the units don't come out as you expect you KNOW there is a fundamental problem in your approach. Get used to carrying units and you'll avoid silly mistakes.

Which returns us to the opportunity for making new and creative mistakes.



fallard said:


> With a new boat, you might want the Chesapeake for a proper shakedown, as someone else mentioned. Annapolis is a good place to look for repair parts. I got a new belt for my AP there.


Point well taken, which gets back to my questions about the state of the boat.

I'm an SSCA Cruising Station in Annapolis. If the OP chooses to come up the Chesapeake and needs some help in Annapolis I'm happy to pitch in. I can also walk him through the timing for a current boost through the C&D and down Delaware Bay.



fallard said:


> Going outside Cape Cod instead of the Canal? SVAuspicious can't be serious. You do need Eldridge's to work the currents. from Block Island until you get past the Cape Cod Canal.


Quite serious. From Norfolk, weather permitting, the angles are good. If you can't get weather info aboard I agree that coastal hopping makes sense. If you want to explore and enjoy yourself, hop up the coast. If you want to move the boat get offshore and move the boat. That's what people pay me for.



chef2sail said:


> You had a hard time in Barnegat Inlet and the anchorage ( Meyers Hole 1 and 2). Thats where we usually anchor, It is just past the channel leading back into Barnegat Bay on the starboard after transiting the back of the inlet.


Barnegat Inlet is fine - pretty easy. There is a hump getting into Barnegat Bay. I was going to Forked River. Once in the Bay I was okay until I got into the River. I haven't stopped at the marinas or anchorages right inside the inlet.



JonEisberg said:


> I don't know, Dave - someone comes here asking "how long is the trip?", and "where are some good places to stop?", and sounding like they may never have done an overnight passage before, well... I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable sending them out and around Nantucket Shoals, and outside the Cape... (grin)


Point taken. I try to put myself in the shoes of the person asking the question. In this case I lost track. From Norfolk I'd go offshore and around though, again weather permitting. That's why I carry wefax gear on deliveries.



JonEisberg said:


> You may be right, I thought the First 38 was also offered in a shoal draft closer to 5.5', but who knows what he's bought?


I think you're right. Most of the First boats were bought for club racing and the deep draft versions are all over the place.



JonEisberg said:


> Where did you have your problem, exactly?


The hump between the channel and the Bay proper. I got really hung up and called Towboat/US. Note to wannabe delivery skippers - you do know you need a separate towing policy right? Your personal policy isn't valid if you are doing a delivery, and the owners policy isn't good if he isn't aboard. Make sure Boat/US gets your delivery policy hooked to your personal policy so you get credit for your West Marine purchases. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. *grin*

Anyway the local tower came out and pulled us through. Passport 40 drawing 5-1/2 feet. Called us on the radio and told us not to drop the towline as there were two more humps. He was right. Dragged us through half a foot of mud in each case. I don't recall exact state of tide but it was clear that waiting around wasn't going to help much.



JonEisberg said:


> My recommendation is based somewhat on the assumption that he'd likely stop in Cape May, and from there AC is a pretty short day, and Manasquan a pretty long one, so... You're right, if he's just making a pit stop for fuel, then Manasquan is probably preferable, certainly a quicker in and out...


That was my thinking. I don't remember the air draft on a First 38 but if he doesn't fit under the bridge at Cape May then Cape May doesn't make any sense for the Chesapeake/Delaware route. I would either stop at Cape Henlopen for rest or if fuel is an issue push on to Atlantic City. AC is a good all-weather entrance and easy even in darkness. You can find my anchorage guidance on ActiveCaptain. *grin*

Your points, Jon, on experience of the OP are well taken. I care more about weather and tidal current in inlets than darkness.



TQA said:


> If you do decide to go outside and it gets snotty remember deep water is your friend.


When in doubt, go out.



TQA said:


> I would be VERY reluctant to run an unfamiliar inlet. If you feel you HAVE TO then there is no shame in asking for someone to pilot you in. I remember well having to enter at Cape Fear and although it was buoyed and one of the easier inlets I was VERY glad that I called up a passing shrimper and he slowed down to let me follow him in.


Another good reason for having Towboat/US towing insurance. When you get to an inlet you are nearly always in cell range. The Towboat/US dispatch desk will patch you through to the local tower for local information. Really good deal.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.

To the OP, post a "Crew Wanted" listing, there are many here who would be happy to help you out.


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## Andrew Burton (Oct 22, 2012)

Hiring a good delivery skipper to go with you and give you the benefit of his knowledge might be the way to go. I can't do it as I'm booked, so I'm not angling for a job, just dispensing free advice.
Philosophically, you need to remember that your boat is small and the sea is big. Go at this very humbly, I notice a bit of the kind of arrogance that gets people in trouble in some of the comments on routes. 
The weather still can get very snotty very quickly that time of year, and the water is still very cold. So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather. 
If you want the more direct route, pick a nice SWly to leave on; one that is going to last a couple of days, at least, and head up toward C May or Atlantic City.
Don't try Barnegat; it's tricky and it's not worth the risk. Out of many dozens of trips up and down the NJ shore, I've only gone in there when I was dropping a boat there. It's only 53 miles from Atlantic City to Manasquan; you should be able to pick a weather window that long. 
As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew. 
Before you leave, learn what lights mean, both ship and shore.
Winds are generally westerly that time of year, so going up the beach is a good option. If you stay in 40 feet or so, you should have a nice flat-water ride no matter how hard the wind is blowing. Careful of the reefs going up the DelMarVa shore. Bear in mind that if the forecast is for NW winds, you will have wind and waves right on your nose and get no lee from the land. 
Again, in many years of taking this route, 75% of the time I end up going up the beach and down LI Sound. The offshore route can be a pain weather-wise, but also the traffic is horrendous with ships and fishing boats all trying to run you over...or so it seems. Mid May is pretty foggy offshore, so you can imagine how much fun that will be, no matter how overloaded with electronics you are. My advice is to not take the chance. And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage.

For a brief take on how to find a delivery skipper: 
Yacht and Delivery Captains: A Wealth of Knowledge and Experience « « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Dave,

I have " hit" that hump rpobably a few years back when we went to Silver Cloud Marina to have our exhaust mixer fixed back in Forked River. That passageway back to Barnegat Bay along the Sedge Islands is a narrow twisted mess. even worse in season with the large PB racing through there.

Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Andrew Burton said:


> ...
> For a brief take on how to find a delivery skipper:
> Yacht and Delivery Captains: A Wealth of Knowledge and Experience « « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com


Well-written article. I would add one more way to find a delivery captain, which is to participate in a forum like SailNet or Sailing Anarchy, where you can read the delivery captain's history of posts and determine for yourself whether the captain is the kind of person to whom you would entrust your boat and your life.

There are some great delivery captain participants on SailNet who have added a great deal of knowledge to the discussions here and have proven their expertise in the field through their smartly written posts.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

jameswilson29 said:


> There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.


I think you'll find that where we differ it is based on different assumptions. When we talk things over consensus is reached pretty easily.



Andrew Burton said:


> ... So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather. ...
> 
> ... As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew. ...
> 
> ... And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage. ...


Weather is important. You really need a way to get weather information on the boat underway. The NOAA VHF material is way too local to plan with. Synoptics are the way to go which realistically means weather fax unless you have Internet.

If you have any doubts about your crew than I agree that heading up the Chesapeake makes sense, mostly because you can drop them in Annapolis or Baltimore and they have lots of public transportation options: BWI and Amtrak.



chef2sail said:


> Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?


39d 22.93'N 074d 25.28'W I haven't been there since July '12. I don't remember the dredge but I went into the state marina to drop off sick crew and left. I know I've anchored in there since my post in '10 but I don't recall how recently.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> Barnegat Inlet is fine - pretty easy. There is a hump getting into Barnegat Bay. I was going to Forked River. Once in the Bay I was okay until I got into the River. I haven't stopped at the marinas or anchorages right inside the inlet.


There is more than one "hump', the Oyster Creek Channel into the bay can be a real challenge in a few places... but there would be no reason for anyone stopping for an overnight in Barnegat to venture in there, and simply coming inside the inlet to the anchorage in Meyer's Hole should be no problem, even for one who has the deep keeled version of the First 38...

Barnegat has always had a fearsome reputation, but I think it is one of the few inlets on the east coast that appears to be improving with the passage of time. It's become quite stable in recent years, the addition of the South Jetty years ago is one of those projects that the Corps of Engineers really seemed to get right... Of course it will quickly turn treacherous on the ebb with a good swell running, but otherwise it has become pretty straightforward...

I know I'm somewhat prejudiced, it being in my backyard and a favorite local destination and all, but I think Barnegat Light is a very special place... This pic happened to be taken exactly one week before the night Sandy came ashore there...


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Having gone in And out of Barnegat over 75 times I would say it is to be respected. Not as easy as Cape May , Absecon, or Manesquan, but for me is the only other inlet I would try on the NJ coast. Having lived there for 18 years helps , and as John has stated the South Jetty definitely improved it. As long as you understand it, know you will face a green can in the middle of the rocks forcing you to the north jetty, and dogleg perpendicular across the back of the inlet it's really not difficult. Care should be given in outbound tide and wind from the NE or E. 

It is the perfect midway point between Cape May and Sandy Hook to do the Jersey coast in two days. Manesquan, while a great Inet precludes anchoring. You need to get a slip there. 

Johns anchorage picture is a pretty one. There s even an anchorage a little further on Meyers Hole two toward High Br Yacht Club.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> There is more than one "hump', the Oyster Creek Channel into the bay can be a real challenge in a few places... but there would be no reason for anyone stopping for an overnight in Barnegat to venture in there, and simply coming inside the inlet to the anchorage in Meyer's Hole should be no problem, even for one who has the deep keeled version of the First 38...


As I said elsewhere the Inlet was fine and easy. The only time I've been in there was to deliver a boat to Forked River, so I haven't explored the anchorages just past the light.

Aside from the three humps to get into the Bay proper we ended up having to put lines ashore and grind ourselves into the boat's home slip. The wind was in a bad direction and blown all the water out. Fun stuff.

It comes down to philosophy. I plan to move the boat and plan bail-outs. I don't take the bail-outs unless conditions (weather, boat, crew) dictate.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Has anyone done the inlet (or anywhere else along the Jersey coast) post Sandy?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jsaronson said:


> Has anyone done the inlet (or anywhere else along the Jersey coast) post Sandy?


Just Manasquan and Cape May, nothing has changed there...

Passing by Barnegat about 3 weeks after the storm, the buoyage appeared unchanged... I watched a commercial vessel depart, and from what I could tell, he was taking the normal track out...

the Oyster Creek channel into the bay has undoubtedly changed somewhat, but with all the commercial fishing done out of Barnegat Light, if the inlet channel had shifted significantly, it certainly would have been re-marked by now...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have to do the same trip. Crew will be my wife/me/ two delivery captains ( dealers for the boat) Believe they propose leaving Norfolk,Va -Straight shot to Barrington, R.I. Cut into L.I. sound depending on weather. Non stop. Although new boat it will be fully found except for entertainment electronics. Time late April/early May. Any concerns? Should I appeal to do the coastal hopping rather than straight shot? Figured learn the boat better in shorter time if we just "get her done".


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

They are picking the fastest route. It's your boat. If the weather is bad don't be talked into something you are not comfortable with.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

This trip is my next cruising goal. I would much rather take a straight shot to Block Island from Cape May or Norfolk than coastal hop.

Here are the disadvantages of coastal hopping as I see it:

Risk of collision with local boat traffic
Risk of collision with Navaids, fishtraps, exposed wrecks, etc.
Risk of getting caught on lee shore with easterly/Noreaster
Risk of grounding on shoals, inlets, wrecks, etc.
Need to accommodate currents/tides in passage timing
Need to make certain distance in certain time for daylight inlet passages
Longer distance and considerably longer time required

Advantages:

Radio contact
Help nearby
Closer to rescue, if necessary
Psychological comfort of seeing land, other boats
Ability to refuel, restock, if necessary
Ability to sleep uninterrupted at dock or anchor w/o watch standing

Based on my non-scientific study of boating problems in the mid-Atlantic, most seem to stem from proximity to shore, not from being offshore. The distance of the straight shot from Va/NJ to RI is never so far from shore that you can't be saved by USCG if you carry an EPIRB.


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## Andrew Burton (Oct 22, 2012)

I see one glaring problem with your pro/con list above and that's a heavy emphasis on the availability of rescue. Offshore trips should be planned as if rescue was not a possibility. Make sure you and your craft are ready for the trip. If you aren't, don't go.

I note that you seem to believe that you will encounter shipping near the coast but not offshore. If this is so, you couldn't be more wrong. You will be crossing two very busy in- and out-bound lanes, as well as encountering a ton of fishing activity. Add to that the fact that in the spring you stnd a good chance of encountering fog and you are setting yourself up for at least a very unpleasant passage. 

If you are concerned about being on a lee shore, just avoid leaving in those conditions.

Don't be what I call a "mighty man of the sea" and leave on a schedule. Wait for a decent weather window for your trip. And take the best route. Treat it as something to be completed within a set time and you open yourself up for all kinds of trouble.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Both regall me with sea stories of storms they have gone through on transports. Wife and I both still work (MD/RN). Can arrange 7-10d window for trip. Boat has SSB, full nav with all the toys, raft/EPIRBs,Jordan series drogue, full ditchbag stormjib on colego softstay etc. so have much less concern about safety. Boat is purpose built passagemaker as well. Figure with radar and AIS shipping channels less of an issue.Wife has no offshore experience. I've done multiple Marion/Newport to Bermudas and some transports. Figure safe way to get her to realize the danger in the ocean is at the hard edges. Will use 96h weather charts to pick window. Will motorsail in light air (have 200+h of fuel at 7kts.) so figure 4d max.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Also note plan to do 3 person watch schedule with her always on watch with another person. I want to have one of "paid" crew with me as much of the time as possible to learn ship systems. That way the admiral is learning from some one other than me and I'm learning from people who really know my boat.
Question is will we gain(learn) more fom this trip going coastal or offshore?


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

outbound said:


> Have to do the same trip. Crew will be my wife/me/ two delivery captains ( dealers for the boat) Believe they propose leaving Norfolk,Va -Straight shot to Barrington, R.I. Cut into L.I. sound depending on weather. Non stop. Although new boat it will be fully found except for entertainment electronics. Time late April/early May. Any concerns? Should I appeal to do the coastal hopping rather than straight shot? Figured learn the boat better in shorter time if we just "get her done".


Prudence dictates a proper shakedown before you go on an offshore trip like this. You need to verify all systems are working and up to the task--even if brand new--by spending significant time off the dock, but near enough to get a tow or other help if needed. Heading up the Chesapeake would offer you "offramps" if needed. The detour would be worth the several extra days if you've never been there.

If you stick to the original plan and you've never been offshore for days at a time, you may want to take precautions against sea sickness.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Builder/dealer will shakedown boat before my arrival. Will spend first day turning everything on/off during a daysail. That way failures dealt with by installors even if trip postponed. Then I was thinking of coastal for first 24-36h of cruise then offshore. I've done 5-10d trips offshore. She has been ~24h offshore. ? Can you suggest hybrid route plan?. Want to allow at least 3-4 d "downtime" inside our 10d window to allow for picking weather window so ideally keep trip no longer than 4-5d. Boat easily driven to hull speed of 8.38kts.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

outbound said:


> ... Can you suggest hybrid route plan?...


Why don't you stop at Cape May, N.J? It's 140 n.m. from Norfolk - good shakedown cruise for you and your wife.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

perfect-did a quick look at worldcuising and sailing wiki and looks about right- Thanks Jim good idea.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

outbound said:


> Should I appeal to do the coastal hopping rather than straight shot? Figured learn the boat better in shorter time if we just "get her done".


On a boat in good shape coastal hopping makes sense if 1. you are on holiday and sight-seeing, 2. the weather is unstable, or 3. crew is frightened.



jameswilson29 said:


> Here are the disadvantages of coastal hopping as I see it:
> 
> Risk of collision with local boat traffic
> Risk of collision with Navaids, fishtraps, exposed wrecks, etc.
> ...


You'll find there aren't big differences in traffic between nearshore and the rhumb line. Closer in the fishing boats will be heading in or out and someone will be on the bridge. Further out sometimes they are working lines or nets and you can't count on someone always being on the bridge.

I still prefer to be out.



jameswilson29 said:


> Advantages {of coastal hopping]:
> 
> Radio contact
> Help nearby
> ...


No SSB? With an EPIRB the availability of help is about the same. Spin up time of the air resources is more than flight time in many cases. If you have to buy "stuff" you didn't do a good job planning. Learn from that and think harder. Sooner or later you'll have your first time offshore and the Norfolk or Cape May to Newport(ish) run is pretty benign - close to support, good weather products, only about one day out of VHF range.



jameswilson29 said:


> Based on my non-scientific study of boating problems in the mid-Atlantic, most seem to stem from proximity to shore, not from being offshore. The distance of the straight shot from Va/NJ to RI is never so far from shore that you can't be saved by USCG if you carry an EPIRB.


Bingo.

You should, in my opinion, plan your trip the way you would like to make it. You should have weather resources available before leaving AND UNDERWAY to ensure that your plan still makes sense. You should have bailouts considered in case something happens (boat breaks, someone gets sick or injured, all your water dumps into the bilge, whatever).



outbound said:


> Both regall me with sea stories of storms they have gone through on transports. Wife and I both still work (MD/RN). Can arrange 7-10d window for trip. Boat has SSB, full nav with all the toys, raft/EPIRBs,Jordan series drogue, full ditchbag stormjib on colego softstay etc. so have much less concern about safety. Boat is purpose built passagemaker as well.


Great. The biggest downside of what you propose is that, given your description of your wife's experience, it isn't quite long enough. It takes three or four days to really get in the groove of being offshore the first time. By the time she gets adjusted you'll arrive.

Will you have someone with a ham license on board? If so you should check into the Waterway Net (7268 kHz LSB 0745 ET). Regardless check into Cruiseheimers and the Doo-Dah Net (Google them). It will give you good practice with your SSB and confirm operation.



outbound said:


> Also note plan to do 3 person watch schedule with her always on watch with another person. I want to have one of "paid" crew with me as much of the time as possible to learn ship systems. That way the admiral is learning from some one other than me and I'm learning from people who really know my boat.
> 
> Question is will we gain(learn) more fom this trip going coastal or offshore?


I think you'll benefit more offshore. You bought a passagemaker. Presumably you plan to make passages. It's easy to practice boathandling and hopping around when you are home.

When you are on watch you should be on watch. What is the benefit of having experienced crew with you on watch? If you have your head behind the electrical panel or in a bilge how are you "on watch?" Stand your watches, read manuals, and spend some off watch time with crew on systems. Make sure everyone gets enough rest.



outbound said:


> Then I was thinking of coastal for first 24-36h of cruise then offshore. I've done 5-10d trips offshore. She has been ~24h offshore. ? Can you suggest hybrid route plan?. Want to allow at least 3-4 d "downtime" inside our 10d window to allow for picking weather window so ideally keep trip no longer than 4-5d. Boat easily driven to hull speed of 8.38kts.


Leaving from Norfolk headed North there really is no good place to duck in until you get to the Delaware Bay. You either push on or turn back. The only hybrid is to head up the Chesapeake, through the C&D and down the Delaware with the plan of not stopping but with tonnes of easy bailouts.

If you don't fit under the fixed bridge at Cape May then Cape May doesn't make a good stop headed to New England. Anchoring inside the inner breakwater at Cape Henlopen makes much more sense.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

SVAuspicious said:


> No SSB? With an EPIRB the availability of help is about the same...


No SSB. What kind of SSB radio should I carry?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

An inexpensive shortwave radio like the Kaito KA-1103 (well under $100) will get you USCG voice weather and weather fax, the latter requiring a small cable and a laptop.

There is no better safety item than something keeps you out of trouble.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

spoke with wife. she wants to go straight through. Her thinking is same as Auspicious'. She surprised me by saying she wasn't adverse to seeing some weather. Her thinking was she rather have that happen the first time with redundent skilled crew aboard than when it's just the two of us. Still will look at the 500mb for 3d. If I don't like it won't go.
I was thinking I and the other two would single. She would do 4 and 8's but one of us would be designated as her crew.e.g. she would single as well but under a watchful eye. Figured when off watch play with systems with who ever wasn't sleeping.
Have typical pretuned ICOM ssb with pracnor modem for salmail/weatherfax.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

outbound said:


> spoke with wife. she wants to go straight through. Her thinking is same as Auspicious'. She surprised me by saying she wasn't adverse to seeing some weather. Her thinking was she rather have that happen the first time with redundent skilled crew aboard than when it's just the two of us. Still will look at the 500mb for 3d. If I don't like it won't go.
> I was thinking I and the other two would single. She would do 4 and 8's but one of us would be designated as her crew.e.g. she would single as well but under a watchful eye. Figured when off watch play with systems with who ever wasn't sleeping.
> Have typical pretuned ICOM ssb with pracnor modem for salmail/weatherfax.


Excellent. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Is there a laptop on the boat ready to go or are you configuring Airmail when you get aboard?


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

gotta wait until I get there. Thanks for the offer of support. Might be a thought to start a thread about what programs you think should be on a sailboat's laptop. Whole new world for me. ?Would you be willing to moderate Dave?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

outbound said:


> gotta wait until I get there. Thanks for the offer of support. Might be a thought to start a thread about what programs you think should be on a sailboat's laptop. Whole new world for me. ?Would you be willing to moderate Dave?


Sure. *grin* Happy to moderate moderately. I know I don't have all the answers but I'm pretty good at questions.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

jameswilson29 said:


> No SSB. What kind of SSB radio should I carry?


I just got this, so no warrenty from me yet 

HF Weather Fax Marine Radiofascimile Decoder App

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/rfax.pdf

I am debating which to buy:
Amazon.com: Sangean ATS-909X BK AM/FM/LW/SW World Band Receiver - Black: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fWTpZ%[email protected]@[email protected]@51fWTpZ%2B38L
Amazon.com: Sangean Ats-909x Professional Multi-band Am\\/fm\\/sw Receiver: Everything [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@41KzhpJDODL

What I have read, it seems a good antenna is more important to model or brand.


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