# Non-Firearm Piracy Deterrents..



## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

The "firearms" thread is a sea of politics, testosterone, and powdered donut residue, and all I really care about is the piracy deterrent angle. 

Given that having a firearm aboard is more trouble than its worth, due to local laws and customs and being outgunned and whatever else, what are some other ways to ensure the safety of your boat? Someone mentioned throwing a bunch of thumbtacks on their cockpit at night, almost assuredly in jest, but it got me thinking. What are the other options?

Does anyone have any experience with electrifying their top lifeline, with a capacitor that charges off of a DC 12V system? 

Are there any records of someone repelling pirates with mace?

What weaponry passes the "firearms" test that might work? Spearguns? Big flare guns?

I'm not worried in the least about pirates in my normal sailing grounds, but I might have an opportunity to move to Thailand next year, and that seems like it'd be a lot more ripe for petty crime.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think the biggest deterrent is an old boat and conservative lifestyle. Difficult as it may be to do, just look like you've got nothing they want. Stay away from areas known to be problem spots. Any more aggressive approach will just get you more trouble than you want. Remember, petty crime is just that. Let them have whatever it is the want.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

German 26 mm Flare Gun


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Junky old boat.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I read somewhere about a cruising couple that equipped their boat with a ~$70 Passive Infrared Alarm system mounted to the mast. IIRC it alerted them to an attempted break in *before* it happened. The system was something like this.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I am pretty sure that this is the exact unit that I mentioned in my previous post....


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## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

brak said:


> Junky old boat.


So, say, some sort of sprayable moss/crud for your boat hull?

They sell that at West?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Paint your boat white with a big red vertical strip near the front? Of course, that might be asking for trouble sometimes...

I would think the passive infared would go off way too often and not deter the real hardened types. Looking like you have nothing worth coming after is my only real answer also. The more you put up defenses, the more evidence you offer that you are protecting something extraordinarily valuable (even if you aren't).


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

You could get a dog... but that is another set of problems.

I could not deal with a boat that looked like a piece of junk. And to make my boat look worse than the other boats out there.... that is scary since most are dong good just to float.

Just lock everything up with a thick chain. If it looks like a real pain to get it, most will go on without bothering. I think a really good lock on the companionway door is a big plus. You have kitchen knives and those are not illegal. 

But if they are willing to take the time to break open a companionway door and threaten you with something more than a kitchen knife would defend, seems like you need to be very cooperative or check that life insurance plan.

My opinion.

- CD


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

brak said:


> Junky old boat.


Yea, just make your boat look like boats from this thread:










Of course, it'd be hard to get this boat anywhere, no boom and all...


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Also - my cooking has been known to leave the cabin filled with a certain "air" about it that would deter the heartiest of souls.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

In another thread, someone mentioned trailing a long line of floating line behind your boat while underway. I thought that was an interesting idea but, in my opinion, if you're passive enough to just let them take whatever they want, throwing tacks on deck or electrifying your lifeline is just going to make them mad when they come to take what they want. 

Also, it's not a given that having firearms on board isn't worth the trouble. If it were a given, it wouldn't be a topic for debate.

As far as petty theft goes, make it hard to steal and easy to identify.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Ugly boats? You guys are no fun! Check this out:

Bear Shock Electric Fence for the Backcountry

6,000 volts should do it--just remember that you've got it if you decide to take a stroll around the deck at night


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

arf145 said:


> Ugly boats? You guys are no fun! Check this out:
> 
> Bear Shock Electric Fence for the Backcountry
> 
> 6,000 volts should do it--just remember that you've got it if you decide to take a stroll around the deck at night


Plus, that item will eliminate those nasty sailors who pee off their deck!!!

- CD


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

beej67 said:


> So, say, some sort of sprayable moss/crud for your boat hull?
> 
> They sell that at West?


Buy'em old and never wash'em Also keep a parrot.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

erps said:


> Also, it's not a given that having firearms on board isn't worth the trouble. If it were a given, it wouldn't be a topic for debate.


I wouldn't exactly call that a debate; more like the NRA complaint thread. It's pretty well acknowledgedged that cruising wherever you want with a gun on board is far from legal in most ports and you risk much (like spending the rest of your life in some third world prison) for doing it, whether you you agree with it that or not. With all due respect, please go to that thread if you want to talk about that - the OP for this thread wants to talk about alternatives.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

I've always been of the opinion that fire extinguishers are far from uni-taskers. 

It is hard to have larceny on your mind when your lungs are full of nasty choking chemicals and your eyes are streaming and raw. get the timing right and follow with a swift kick overboard and causing you further inconvenience will be the last thing on someone's mind.

Sasha


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Are we talking petty theft while you are away? I think petty theft mostly is on easy targets of opportunity. And petty thieves don't typically like confrontation. So make sure they know you are present when you are and lock things up good when you aren't.

Hornet & Wasp spray shoots a stream about 20'.


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## Banshi (Jul 4, 2007)

"I wouldn't exactly call that a debate; more like the NRA complaint thread."

No doubt where your coming from. 

Seems the vast majority have decided the false safety net of big government is better than facing the risks involved with individual freedom and responsibility. Of course if you are out at sea in the dark of night far from the reach of your big government safety net what do you do. Quit your whining,be a good victim, bend over and take it like a man, you made the choice to play follow the leader without really understanding what you were forfeiting in the process, now it's time to pay up.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Wow Banshi, you sure know how to win friends and influence people. 

Please note that you pulled that quote from a posting that was asking members to keep this on topic and take your debate over to the other thread.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Banshi said:


> "I wouldn't exactly call that a debate; more like the NRA complaint thread."
> 
> No doubt where your coming from.


Oh, there is plenty of doubt. I am not even sure where I am headed half the time. My point was that even on that thread they aren't really debating whether or not cruising around with fireams is doable as much as lamenting that most places don't allow it. Believe it or not, if you could freely travel with a gun, then I probably would. But you can't. The OP started this thread to discuss alternatives because of that reality.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> The OP started this thread to discuss alternatives because of that reality.


The reality is that Thailand can issue firearm licenses, so the stated premise for this thread was baloney to begin with.

ABC News: Know the Law Before Ruining Your Vacation


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Do a little more searching. It seems permits are no problem for most Thai nationals, but difficult or impossible for foreigners. I did not get that from an official source though. I just Googled and clicked on the first few and they were not offical but all said the same thing. Anyway, that's fodder for the other thread.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

I have considered using a cattle prod. they come in varying lengths and are battery operated. For the unfortunate occasion of being boarded by some thug, reach out and touch someone, bzzzzzzzzzzzt. Not lethal but I am sure that you would have their attention. Of course I guess they could always use it on you, but the cows never seem to have that in mind when you are holding it, they move away, quickly. I think it could be effective as long as there wasn't a gun barrel pointed in your direction. May be illegal in other countries?


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## pfatyol (Dec 16, 2003)

Dump a couple 5 gallon pails of bait fish on your deck, after a couple of days no one will be boarding the boat. I can attest to this, last year the blues came through my harbor and the dump ducks had a feast on the bait fish chased to the surface. They used my boat a place to rest between the blues feedings, between the crap and the bird puke. I didn't want to go on the boat myself. I am sure that nobody would of boarded with out a very good reason. Took hours to clean off. Spent the rest of the summer running a line above the boom and hanging the plastic owl, every weekend.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There is a paradox (maybe not quite the right term) - you want it to appear that there will be detection and/or resistence to intrusion yet at the same time try not to make it look like there is anything especially valuable aboard. The further away the deterrent works, the better. If someone engages you hand to hand, they are pretty committed. One idea might be to have some obvious blinking sensors around the perimeter. But you don't want to look too highly secure or I think you tempt thieves who think you must have something really valuable.


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## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

erps said:


> Also, it's not a given that having firearms on board isn't worth the trouble. If it were a given, it wouldn't be a topic for debate.


One of the important things about having a discussion is starting with the same givens, though. So while I agree it may or may not be a given, I ask that we take it as a given for *this* thread so *this* thread doesn't go down the same path that the other one did. 



> The reality is that Thailand can issue firearm licenses, so the stated premise for this thread was baloney to begin with.


Far from baloney, merely uninformed question asking, since, you know, I had no idea Thailand issued firearm licenses until you brought it up. SO, how easy is it for a foreigner in Thailand to get a firearms license? I'm certainly curious, and certainly an American Gun Owner, so I'm not asking to patronize, just asking for information.

Pretty interesting that the cops raid night clubs and force pee tests in Thailand, and can throw you in jail for failing the test. Yeesh. It's also funny that badmouthing the King gets you 3+ years in jail. Not sure I want to own a gun there, heh.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Permits are difficult for foreigners to get in Thailand, but apparently not impossible. From another forum:



> mspsl....I have also inquired about getting a firearm as well. A gun shop told my brother-in-law that only Thai nationals could own guns, however he said if a Thai family member registered it in his/her name and accompanied me to the shooting range it would be no problem. Also, for 4,000 baht extra the gun shop can do all the paperwork/licensing stuff for you which takes about a month I think. Later on I read somewhere that a foreigner can get a gun permit but only if your name is on the house registration which I believe means you would need Permanent Residence. Perhaps it's possible to get on the house registration without PR but I'm not sure. I don't know if gun ranges here would check to see who owns the gun(s) when you go to shoot but where I lived in the US they never check. Since you're a foreigner who knows what they may ask if you show up for an afternoon of target practice. If you or a Thai that you know has a friend in law enforcement I would definitely see what they say...the process may be easier than we think.
> The cost of guns/ammo here is WAY higher than in the US due to import taxes and such plus airguns are regulated by the same laws as firearms. If you can get one, a .22 may be all you can afford to shoot over here You can always go for archery and wristrockets as they could never be classified as firearms. Good luck!


Thailand Forum > Permit


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

Sasha_V said:


> I've always been of the opinion that fire extinguishers are far from uni-taskers.
> 
> It is hard to have larceny on your mind when your lungs are full of nasty choking chemicals and your eyes are streaming and raw. get the timing right and follow with a swift kick overboard and causing you further inconvenience will be the last thing on someone's mind.
> 
> Sasha


Yes, or you can smack them over the head with the steel tank first. This works. They'll get the point


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

beej67 said:


> Pretty interesting that the cops raid night clubs and force pee tests in Thailand, and can throw you in jail for failing the test. Yeesh. It's also funny that badmouthing the King gets you 3+ years in jail. Not sure I want to own a gun there, heh.


Yeah, gettting a piece of paper that says you can own a gun and being allowed to brandish a weapon when you feel threatened are two distinctly different things.

Isn't it actually more on the way to and from there (outside Thai jurisdiction) where the greatest concern is?


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## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

> Isn't it actually more on the way to and from there (outside Thai jurisdiction) where the greatest concern is?


Doubt I'll be making a pacific crossing in my current P323. Although I know she could handle it, I'm not sure I could! Heh.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

I once asked a Navy Seal how to defend a sailboat boat with "non-lethal force". His initial comment was, "Well, I haven't really been trained in the use of non-lethal force." But when pressed, he suggested pint-sized Molitov cocktails might do the trick. I wasn't sure exactly how good I'd be at throwing gas bombs around, but it got me thinking.....

Have you seen how much heat you can push out of the end of one of those gas fired tools they use for shrinking shrink-wrap? It's impressive -- not a real "flame thrower" for sure but in close quarters, e.g. a bad guy coming down the companionway, it would be really nasty. Rigging it would be easy on most boats with propane stoves. Just put a "T" in the gas line before the regulator and (carefully) run a hose with a (very secure) valve to a safe place in the cabin to which you can then attach the shrink-wrap "gun" in an emergency. When the bad guys come aboard you retreat to the cabin and stand by with the shrink wrap gas gun. First guy down the hatch gets a really warm welcome.

Maybe it's a dumb idea, I don't know?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Carry Giu's aunt Mathilda along with you and don't allow her to bathe, not that she's inclined to do so in any event. Suitable for use against most pirates and all known insects. Your results may vary using other hirsute porcine women. (g)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

As much as I hate the close quarters ideas, going pyro will scare the crap out of most people (for good reason). Reaming the hole on one of the little butane torches could be really effective. Dumping a cup of magnesium dust onto the bad guys before you light the torch would add a nice Hollywood touch...


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## idealflaw (Jun 18, 2008)

a bb gun or other real-looking weapon would probably do... if they aren't scared of something that looks real, they'll hesitate much less about killing you than you'd hesitate about them..

having said that, my co-worker's mother or father killed 3 pirates who boarded their boat in one of those Caribbean islands. One of them fell overboard injured or dead and wasn't recovered. They had to motor the other two bodies to local authorities who apparently had dealt with similar cases before. I wonder if they were even armed, though....
That is definitely one scary story. To me, it's just as scary dealing with authorities after an incident like that than the incident itself.


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## Tribe95 (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm not sure if we're talking about how to deter thieves when your boat is in the marina, locked up, or how to deter attackers/robbers when you, the owner is present...

That said, here's a mishmash of defense/deterrence concepts that are commonly tossed around in law enforcement circles, defensive tactics classes, training seminars, and whatnot. None of it 100% foolproof, but just some things/ideas to put in your "tactical toolbox."

If I were a thief OR a would-be attacker, the things that would deter me are 1) things that harm me, 2) things that draw attention to me and my illegal activity, or 3) things that make my goal (stealing your stuff) not worth the effort. In no particular order, as a thief/dickweed, I would avoid:

- a well-lit deck or vessel moored in a lighted area - a motion-activated light would be great (if possible - not sure on the feasibility unless you're connected to shore power)

- something that makes a crap-load of noise as soon as I get on board. Not necessarily an alarm, either: something as simple as a few aluminum cans tied to fishing line that's strung along the gunwales would scare the hell out of me, not to mention alert everyone nearby

- any sign of activity - a visible interior light, the sound of music, etc.

- if the boat owner is present, I'd stay away from an assertive person who looks/acts confident, since this is the kind of person who will likely put up a fight. It's much easier to move on to a boat with a passive owner who'll let me take what I want

- someone who is paying attention, alert, and aware of their surroundings, including others nearby would make me think twice - easier pickings with the people who are in la-la land, inebriated, whatever

- multiple individuals (I realize sometimes it's not possible to have someone with you, but it IS a deterrent nonetheless). I'd pick on a solo sailor first

You don't need a firearm to defend yourself - the best "weapon" is your brain and the ability to have prepared yourself in advance. Taking even a rudimentary self defense class would go a long way towards that end. And if you still feel the need for a weapon, _anything_ can become one; just remember that any weapon can be used against_ you_, as well.

But if you still want one - and many people do - there are options. Though I don't carry one and have no experience with them, you could look into getting a taser.

Get some OC (oleoresin capsicum) spray. I've carried this every day for the past 13 years and have used it on a few folks who suddenly became _very_ compliant once they got a face full. I've also been sprayed with it, and it put me into a nice state of misery. Just be advised that some people (though not many) seek to be unaffected by it. Make sure you get one that has at least 10% and make sure it's legal where you carry it.

Other than that, edged weapons are better inside the boat/close quarters. On deck, a stout club, baton, or the good old Lousiville Slugger (autographed or not - your preference ) will probably be sufficient.

Above all, yelling and screaming to attract attention while you fight with someone is likely to make most attackers want to get away from you, as well.

In the end, if someone really wants what you have and has more force than you do, they'll take it. That kind of individual is a rare breed in my expereince with your average run-of-the-mill dirtbag, but if you're ever up against the wall with a person like that, you have to decide if your stuff is really worth it.

Just my 2 cents.

Ron


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think im gonna sleep with my hawaiian sling. I think a simple trip line down the companion way would do the trick as well, thats like a three foot drop that would def. injure/ disorient someone I feel like, not to mention the thud and following epletives would alert whomever on board.


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## WDaniels (Apr 2, 2007)

Just to add my 2 cents worth for deterence. billyruffn mentioned Molitov cocktails, gasoline and soap flakes makes napaum. A bottle and a lit rag makes it a hot time. Don't advise it because it would be hard put to break on a fiberglass deck, among other things but its a thought. Also if you want OC get the large cans that they use for bears. There is a lot of it, it shoots a longer distance and it is stronger than normal people OC. Then there are the personnel TASERS. Even tho they are personnel, they are the same strength and the ones that police use. Make sure that you get several air refills for them. I like the one with the alarm hooked to a motion sensor. Of course this might endure you to your fellow anchorers during a false alarm. 
WD


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

You know...

What really topside does anyone have to steal.

If you are a cruiser then the items would be:

1. Items you shouldn't leave topside to begin with - cell, wallet etc. Don't leave those up topside

2. Dingy - mark it with something that can't be easily disguised.

3. Aux Motor - a long known trick is to obscure the branding info and make it look as fugly as possible (sorry for the french bastardization).

4. Jerry Cans topside ( not much you can do there).

As for below - reinforced hatches do the trick. Anything that takes more effort than what it is worth - is usually not the petty thief's motive. Get a fingerprint lock (smarthome.com) and install versus the flimsy key locks we do use. Install a bracing system to the hatches and access made of metal. 

instal an alarm and if you get a alarm product such as SeaGuard ( I think is the name search Panbo.com)) where you can program the number to call) plus it does all the basics of all other alarms... 

The rest is really what you can do when you are down below is its not much different than if you had an intruder in your home.. Face it - if a armed bandit army comes shooting to board your down below... there ain't much you can do even if you watched every episode of the A-Team....

Have an exit plan..

Make things a bit more difficult...

But seriously, be as bright and noisy as you can be.. but the serious ones will try whatever because they can...and in which case its gonna be up to you to determine to negotiate or try to be your own hero...


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

At least in NJ, TASERS are considered guns. I think that is true for most states.


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## kymbie (Jun 5, 2008)

What about a cross-bow? 

I'm not really sure how these are classified here in the US but you can legally own one of these (for sporting puprposes) in the UK without a license. Find an archery club and get a bit of practise in and I'm sure you could do some serious damage if you needed to.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Since the advent of the crossbow heralded the end of the armoured knights I would agree with you that it can do some serious harm. But most countries will classify this as a weapon and also keep it under lock and key during your stay - particularly as they also will not allow flare guns or spearguns.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here is an oddball one for you that might not be all that simple to implement unless you happen to be good with the right gizmos...

You attach a couple of brackets at each end of your boat and probably on each side that have a short rod to support a thin strong line that runs between them. You put a little battery powered motorized device on the line that has a couple of blinking LEDs and goes back and forth on the line like a sentry. That's all it does. If anyone asks, it's a "wireless security device". All this will do is turn away the "dirtbags" Ron referred to, but you run the risk of making the ones willing to use force more interested ("What's he got in there?").


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

ROFL - With an Anamorphic Equalizer like that, my boat will look like the Knight Industries 2000 from "Knight Rider"


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

I'm weighing in a bit late on this thread, but here's the ultimate solution to the pirate or other unwanted visitors: PWC Elimination


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*homemade flame thrower!*
oops, did i say "flamethrower"? i meant to say "Deck Washer" 

Poor mans idiot version $12.99 at walmart





homemade version!


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

johnshasteen said:


> I'm weighing in a bit late on this thread, but here's the ultimate solution to the pirate or other unwanted visitors:
> 
> PWC Elimination


OMG, ROTFLMAO, and any other acronym! I'm still wiping tears off my face. Good stuff johnshasteen!!


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

[I'm weighing in a bit late on this thread, but here's the ultimate solution to the pirate or other unwanted visitors: PWC Elimination]

LOL!


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## LarryandSusanMacDonald (Apr 3, 2005)

Here are my ideas:

#1: Dogs can be a nuisance on board - especially big dogs - but it would give pause to any intruder if he were to see a very large dog dish in the cockpit, maybe a couple of large fake dog turds on deck. The dog dish would have to look used - maybe some dog food residue one the bottom. Add a tape recording of growling triggered by a switch at you companionway - I don't know if it would work - but if I were going to try
to board such a vessel - I think I'd be heading the other way.

#2. Might take a little engineering, but how about a note that says, "Chuck, the key is in the can in the starboard cockpit seat." The thief thinks - "Boy, what an idiot!" Opens the cockpit seat, sees the can with the key, reaches in and discovers himself handcuffed. When you get back to your boat, you see his butt sticking in the air and notify the Coast Guard to take the felon away. You have to keep this idea _top secret_ though or they'll be fishing the key out with a string.

P.S. Don't use the real key - just in case.


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## Tribe95 (Jun 2, 2008)

> homemade flame thrower!


You just reminded me of a story;

When I worked in Alaska, an enterprising you guy came into our office one day to try and sell us on one of his "inventions," which he hoped we would endorse for fishermen to use in marine mammal deterrence (i.e. keeping seals and sea lions away from fishing nets).

It was a deck-mounted 'cannon' that worked on the same principle as the potato guns, but which used a coffee can-sized cylinder of gelatin as a projectile. He showed us a film of the apparatus in use against trash-browsing bears at a town dump somewhere in Alaska's interior. It fired a clear gelatin "cannister" at about Mach II, but it also dissipated soon after striking, leaving nothing but a sharp pain and a big red welt, not to mention -in some cases - a partially-hairless backside. I had to explain tactfully to the guy that the public would probably have a fit over ANY _deck-mounted _gun to be used against wildlife, even if non-lethal.

But maybe one of those would work for pirates...You could always use some kind of flammable gelatin and...well...you get the idea.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

check the vid on post# 46


uspirate said:


> *homemade flame thrower!*
> oops, did i say "flamethrower"? i meant to say "Deck Washer"
> 
> Poor mans idiot version $12.99 at walmart
> ...


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## Cruisingdreamspress (Apr 8, 2008)

During my solo voyage around the world, I had to sail through areas where pirates lurked. My good friends on Gone Troppo were two days ahead of me when they headed into the Red Sea off Yemen. 5 pirates, in a small, fast boat, machined gunned them as they swooped down on their yacht. The wife was wounded. The pirates boarded their boat, stole everything they could find but let my friends live. 

Needless to say, the incident scared me to death for I had to sail through the same area two days later. In a panic, I wound up buying a machine gun but later realized being armed was foolish. Instigating a gun battle with 5 or more heavily armed pirates is not the way to end a dream cruise.

I decided the best practice to observe when sailing in known pirate waters is to go in a convoy with other boats. If that is not possible, then I feel a skipper must be on constant look out and be ready to stop the boat and 'give up' before any approaching pirates start shooting. I made a white flag for this purpose. In anchorages I have also used Slocum's trick of putting tacks on the deck at night if I sense I am in an area with sticky fingered natives. However, to protect myself, I stick the tacks through strips of duct tape. That way...in the morning I can easily pick up the whole lot. I also raise my dink halfway out of the water with the main halyard and snug it along side Mika at night. No sense tempting someone to steal it when I'm sleeping.
In closing, however, may I say that in all the years I have been out cruising, I feel far safer 'out there' then I do in Los Angeles or on the freeways.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Nice to hear from all the MacGuyver wannabes out there (thanks USPirate for the deckwasher er, whatever). One could go a bit crazy with home made weapons systems: you could create a makeshift mortar launcher with the metal tube of a table to launch your Moltov cocktails mixed with soap flakes but ...
As Cruisingdreamspress mentions, once you are out on the ocean and there is no one else but you (and your crew) and several go fast boats with automatic machine guns and RPGs approach you the situation is quite a bit different. The likelyhood of this happening to most of us in our local waters is pretty small but if you are cruising up the Red Sea or near Somalia or Indonesia the odds increase dramatically at the moment. 
While I enjoyed the TV show MacGuyver I doubt that I would be able to create a homemade hand grenade by mixing baking soda with vinegar or whatever while pirates are strafing me with high powered bullets. 
When traveling these dangerous waters perhaps one could contact the navy and hope that they would use you as bait for the pirates (with the prospect of rescue). 
One other thought is that you could release sections of floating line in the hopes that it would get fouled in their propellers, if they are chasing you. On the open sea/ocean there ain't no local sheriff.


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## lowtide (Mar 23, 2008)

As many of these attacks occur near or just after dark to provide the element of surprise, the attackers' (and the attackeds') eyes should be adjusted to darkness.


Very often the best weapon (usable before the attackers board the boat at as much as 50+ feet) is the 2 million candlepower spotlight pointed directly at them.

Would you attempt to board a strange vessel forcibly after having a spotlight shone in your eyes? Not for a few minutes, enough time to prepare the flare gun, etc.

I read about this idea in one of Reese Pauley's books.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

My opinion is that you either have real protection, or you don't. For all the talk people do about how having a gun is going to lead to the person who draws it getting killed with his own gun, etc ... shooting some guy who has a gun with pepper spray REALLY IS GOING TO GET YOU KILLED. Like they say, don't bring a knife to a gunfight ... definitely don't bring a dog to a gunfight, or a potato gun, or a tazer ... though that homemade flame thrower looks pretty cool lol ...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Tribe95 said:


> You just reminded me of a story;
> 
> When I worked in Alaska, an enterprising you guy came into our office one day to try and sell us on one of his "inventions," which he hoped we would endorse for fishermen to use in marine mammal deterrence (i.e. keeping seals and sea lions away from fishing nets).
> 
> ...


HeHeheheh!

"flammable gelatin"? hehehehe! Flammable gelatin is called napalm. hehheheh!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

johnshasteen said:


> I'm weighing in a bit late on this thread, but here's the ultimate solution to the pirate or other unwanted visitors: PWC Elimination


Damn it, Frank! That was just a prototype! You weren't supposed to release the video.


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## Martinini (Jun 18, 2008)

*Smoke Generator Alarm*

Not sure what it's called, but there is an alarm system out there that when activated will fill entire boat with a dense non toxic smoke. Learn to yell fire in 3 languages, might make them go elsewhere. It takes about 8 seconds to fill a medium size boat (35'). They make them for car, home, business, boat etc.
This would be My first line of defense, 2nd line of defense is an SKS with a 30 round clip. Been shot at by a Felon before, and as I was dodging bullets I thought it sure would be nice if I could shoot back and make him rethink his options (He wants to live too) and retreat. But back to alarm, is way cool unit and a search on Google would probably find a Dealer. I intend to put that system in my boat and add a panic button.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

How about short fused sticks of dynamite. Light them up and toss them on approaching pirate boats.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

It's like real estate, location location location. 'nuf said.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm sure ICE would love to catch you with dynamite aboard your boat.... you'd be in Gitmo within a few hours. 


Slayer said:


> How about short fused sticks of dynamite. Light them up and toss them on approaching pirate boats.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

*Just in case you were thinking of using a flare...*

Just in case you were thinking of using a (conventionally loaded) flare for self defense, this video should completely put you off the idea. Just because it looks like a gun doesn't mean it'll work like one at all.

This guy in the video shoots himself in the head, point blank, with a 25mm flare gun, and he's unharmed. BTW, this video will also put to bed any ideas you may have had with drug experimentation....

YouTube - guy shoots himself with flare gun

MedSailor


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## lgherb (Jul 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Plus, that item will eliminate those nasty sailors who pee off their deck!!!
> 
> - CD


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## Martinini (Jun 18, 2008)

*Pee on Electric Fence*

Myth Busters just did a show on the very subject of electrocoution by peeing on an electric fence and the third rail of electric subways and pretty much proved that it won't happen, makes a good story though.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

15 tons of steel cutter at eight knots might help. Hard to say.

The best policy is avoiding the feces-encrusted parts of the globe. This is becoming increasingly difficult.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*Vicious Non-Firearm Deterrent*

Here is a vicious deterrent...


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

That mean-vicious junkyard dog wearing almost a pound of C3 triggered to detonate at the 3rd "yip"? Works for me!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It may have been a joke, but just having the bad guys thinking that you may be made aware of their presence before they get to your boat is probably a 70% or better solution. (referring to CD's "vicious" dog)


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Wait till she shows you guys her white teeth!! GRRRRR!!!!!

To most of the world, she is known as MAN-EATER, but (Shhhh) her real name is Sissy. Just don't tell the pirates her name is Sissy. Kinda doesn't set the right tone for a VICIOUS ATTACK DOG!

HEHE!

- CD


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## EO32 (Jan 7, 2008)

There always is the sound canon

To bad they don't make a hand held version.


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## Cruisingdreamspress (Apr 8, 2008)

Creating a paranoia over pirates is not healthy. A Canadian couple heading south, 30 miles off the remote Baja coast, spied an 18 foot boat about a 100 yards away. It sat dead in the water. Three mustached, hard looking men waved at them to stop. The skipper, with fresh pirate stories dancing in his head, turned on the engine and motored away at full speed. His wife immediately jumped on the VHF and SSB to tell of their close encounter with Mexican pirates. "Beware," she warned to other cruising boats in the area.
The next day another southbound cruiser spotted the 18 foot boat, and stopped to investigate. They learned the three men each had families and were simple, hard working fishermen. Their engine failed and an offshore wind had blown them out to sea. They had drifted for over a week and were near death from lack of water.
During my solo voyage around the world I had chance meetings far out at sea with several boats and unless I was in known pirate waters I always greeted them as they greeted me..with friendliness.


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## WDaniels (Apr 2, 2007)

```
Creating a paranoia over pirates is not healthy. A Canadian couple heading south, 30 miles off the remote Baja coast, spied an 18 foot boat about a 100 yards away. It sat dead in the water. Three mustached, hard looking men waved at them to stop. The skipper, with fresh pirate stories dancing in his head, turned on the engine and motored away at full speed.
```
I agree with what Cruisingdreamspress says but because of rampent piracy, (it doesn't just happen overseas, remember the 2 guys and a gal pretending to be interested in buying a boat for sale and went on a curise with the owners and then killed the husband and wife then jumped into the dink and set themselvs adrift. That was here in the U.S.)how are we to determine who is honest when a Mayday comes over the radio. It's illegal to ignore a said radio call but then again, sailors have the right to be safe when trying to render aid. So, what do we do? Take a chance or run? Especially when long distances away from the U.S.
Warren


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## Cruisingdreamspress (Apr 8, 2008)

I disagree that piracy is "rampant". That belief causes many problems and unnecessary anxiety. It is understandable, though why people have that perception. Any mention of pirates generates massive news coverage worldwide. I would suggest that media coverage on piracy is blown up 50 to 100 times greater than say drive by shootings in Los Angeles. I know. I was shot once and almost killed by a robber in LA. The Times had a one inch blurb about the attack on page 26. I cruised approximately 10 years out of the US and, with the exception of sailing Yemen water, felt safer cruising than I ever felt in Los Angeles. So what do you do when you meet strangers out cruising...you assume you may be meeting friends for life. And if they need help...help them.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I would agree with some of the others about safety. Though it is always a good idea to be cautious, there has never been a safer time to travel the earth than now. There are no major wars going on, how often in human history can you say that ? Iraq is contained in Iraq. There are very few areas on the earth at the moment where pirates are a huge problem and we know where those areas are. Piracy has always been a bigger problem than it is now. Despite the fact that most of the world's people are still what folks in America might consider "poor", by historical standards people are doing very well, in general, the world's economies have been doing well for two decades and it has really cut down on the number of people who are desperate - of course, work remains to be done, and economies have been having a bit more trouble lately. All-in-all I think it's about as perfect a time to go cruising as it could be. Certainly we aren't sitting here having discussions about whether our boats might be boarded by German U-boats crews, or people from Soviets subs, or what have you. It could be a LOT worse. It has been a lot worse.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> Certainly we aren't sitting here having discussions about whether our boats might be boarded by German U-boats crews, or people from Soviets subs, or what have you. It could be a LOT worse. It has been a lot worse.


You have a press release or an example of this ever happening ?


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> You have a press release or an example of this ever happening ?


No, I didn't mean to make it sound like it had happened ... but if there were tensions like that in the world, I meant that we would be sitting here talking about the possibility of it happening.


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## Tribe95 (Jun 2, 2008)

> shooting some guy who has a gun with pepper spray REALLY IS GOING TO GET YOU KILLED.


I was only pointing out something that can be used instead of a firearm, as the OP was asking. And actually, the person being sprayed will likely be debilitated beyond reason: I've been pepper-sprayed and have a healthy respect for it because it's no fun. For 99.9% of the population, there's almost nothing you can do or think of than how to get the stuff out of your eyes and stop the pain (which comes once again when you take a shower later on and "reactivate" the stuff that's still on your skin - fun times ).

There's a reason why most law enforcement agencies allow an officer to use deadly force if he or she is being confronted by an individual wielding pepper spray: because if hit, it will likely render the officer so powerless that their firearm will essentially become _the bad guy's _firearm, as in "game over."

It's certainly not a be-all, end-all solution and I didn't mean to imply that it was (_nothing_ is), but it's better than having nothing at all. You can also put it on your burrito  .

Ron


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

Freesail99 said:


> At least in NJ, TASERS are considered guns. I think that is true for most states.


NJ is a bit weird. In TX they are not considered a firearm.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> NJ is a bit weird. In TX they are not considered a firearm.


Yes I know, grown men don't wear cowboy hats.... (g)


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## huguley3 (May 7, 2007)

In Minnesota at least they are not regulated like handguns. According to the taser intl site they are not regulated in most states. I just bought my girlfriend a red one and they do register it to the purchaser but no license is needed. If you use a taser or mace while commiting a crime then it is considered a weapon.

I found there are quite a few restrictions on mace as well in some states. Wisconsin for some reason has restrictions on Pepper spray(OC) but not on mace(CS). I am sure internationally it is even worse.

I am taking knife and baton classes figuring that if I am going to get attacked by pirates with guns then I am going to be outgunned so its either run or surrender in that case. A guy with a machete or unarmed then I can take them. 5 guys with machetes? Well who knows.



jerryrlitton said:


> NJ is a bit weird. In TX they are not considered a firearm.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Did you buy a stun wand or the one that shoots the darts. The TASER which stands for Tom Swift's Electric Rifle, is a projectile weapon, and can stun someone up to about 20' away. They also release a cloud of micro-dots that are encoded to prevent them from being used by bad guys. The dots are traceable back to the registered owner of the TASER. TASERs are generally regulated more strictly than Stun Wands, which are contact weapons with range of 3' or so, depending on the length of your arms.



huguley3 said:


> In Minnesota at least they are not regulated like handguns. According to the taser intl site they are not regulated in most states. I just bought my girlfriend a red one and they do register it to the purchaser but no license is needed. If you use a taser or mace while commiting a crime then it is considered a weapon.
> 
> I found there are quite a few restrictions on mace as well in some states. Wisconsin for some reason has restrictions on Pepper spray(OC) but not on mace(CS). I am sure internationally it is even worse.
> 
> I am taking knife and baton classes figuring that if I am going to get attacked by pirates with guns then I am going to be outgunned so its either run or surrender in that case. A guy with a machete or unarmed then I can take them. 5 guys with machetes? Well who knows.


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## huguley3 (May 7, 2007)

I got a Taser C2. so the civilian version of the LE Taser. Yep it has a specified range of 15 feet. We tried out a couple of cartridges on our patio fence to see how it worked and I would say 15 feet is an extreme range. I told the girlfriend 6 to 10 is a more reasonable number given the dart spread when we were at 8 feet or so. At 8 feet with the laser dot at about heart level the first dart hit on the laser mark and the second was a bit above groin level. So at 10 feet if you are on center the second dart will go between the legs. The instructions say it can still be used as a standard stun gun if the darts miss. In test mode it will arc across the front of the device so I would not want it anywhere near me.

The nice thing about the civilian version is that when you hit the button it goes for 30 seconds.. The idea being you dart them, drop the gun and then run away. After getting tased for 30 seconds they are probably thinking of other things besides pursuit. At least that is my hope. I got her some OC/CS as backup. I tried the handgun route with her but she says she would rather die herself than shoot someone so it's less than lethal options...

The darts are pretty nasty looking after they fire. If anyone is interested I can get some pics. One dart hit a knot in the wood and got some pretty good bend to it. they will penetrate that is for sure. After seeing it fire I am a believer that if the darts hit you have a free 30 seconds to do whatever you want to the assailant.



sailingdog said:


> Did you buy a stun wand or the one that shoots the darts. The TASER which stands for Tom Swift's Electric Rifle, is a projectile weapon, and can stun someone up to about 20' away. They also release a cloud of micro-dots that are encoded to prevent them from being used by bad guys. The dots are traceable back to the registered owner of the TASER. TASERs are generally regulated more strictly than Stun Wands, which are contact weapons with range of 3' or so, depending on the length of your arms.


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

Freesail99 said:


> Yes I know, grown men don't wear cowboy hats.... (g)


Whoever told you that was lying to your face and/or was/is incredibly stupid. My advice to you would be whenever you see their lips moving treat whatever comes out with extreme suspicion. Then quit watching "Dallas" reruns and come down yourself and visit. And lose the sharkskin jacket and pointy shoes ......(g)

Jerry


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

huguley3 said:


> I
> 
> I am taking knife and baton classes figuring that if I am going to get attacked by pirates with guns then I am going to be outgunned so its either run or surrender in that case. A guy with a machete or unarmed then I can take them. 5 guys with machetes? Well who knows.


Yes, other then trying to stay out of their way and not drawing attention to yourself, the knife and baton classes are a good deal if your back is to the wall.

Jerry


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Audio deterrent*

A couple of years ago, I was working on a very large (175 foot) yacht. I won't mention where or the name of the vessel. The owner, who is just a little strange, is a vehement anti-gun person. He only reluctantly allows spear guns and flare guns aboard.

The first mate, an Aussie, is much more of a realist, and after discussions with the owner, who refused to budge on the gun issue, started looking at non-lethal deterrents. Cost was not an issue.

The device he purchased is an audio device. The whole thing is about three feet by three feet by a foot thick, and plugs into the ship's 120VAC system. What it did stunned me (literally and otherwise).

The unit was tested at the shipyard, and after nearly everyone was warned to stay a good distance away, the unit was switched on. I was about 150 feet away from the boat at the time, and the sound quite literally made my knees buckle from the pain in my ears. One poor guy who just happened to be walking to another vessel fell to the ground in pain.

I asked the first mate about the thing later, and he said that it 'wasn't that expensive'. I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of the gadget or the company that made it, but it appeared to be a single huge electrostatic speaker with a built-in oscillator/amplifier unit.

In the early parts of this, someone mentioned tacks on deck. Josh Slocum, the first documented single-handed circumnavigation used this method of keeping pirates, thieves, etc., off his boat when he was anchored in remote areas, and it worked quite well on several occasions. Of course, he backed up the tacks with a handgun, and used it, as well.

Going to Thailand in today's geopolitical climate, and living aboard would not be something I would consider. And certainly not in an unarmed vessel. If I were going to do it anyway, I would consider this audio unit seriously, because the bloody thing worked.

The crew who operate the unit wear noise canceling headsets that put out an equal but opposite sound in the earphones. Speaking from personal experience, regular 'mickey mouse ears' and foam ear plugs barely slow this thing down if you are within 50 feet of it.

If you want a non-lethal deterrent that really works, you might try and find out who makes the gadget and where to buy it.

Gary


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, this isn't very practical on most smaller sailboats, which won't have the electrical power or capacity to power the thing for more than a few minutes.


Gary1 said:


> A couple of years ago, I was working on a very large (175 foot) yacht. I won't mention where or the name of the vessel. The owner, who is just a little strange, is a vehement anti-gun person. He only reluctantly allows spear guns and flare guns aboard.
> 
> The first mate, an Aussie, is much more of a realist, and after discussions with the owner, who refused to budge on the gun issue, started looking at non-lethal deterrents. Cost was not an issue.
> 
> ...


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## Tribe95 (Jun 2, 2008)

> Of course, this isn't very practical on most smaller sailboats, which won't have the electrical power or capacity to power the thing for more than a few minutes.


Also, if you use it where other boats/individuals are present, you may end up facing liability issues if anyone else claims injury from this thing (I am not familiar with it). Not something to quibble over when life is at stake, but something to consider nevertheless.

As far as sound being used as a weapn, I know Marine Corps. Psychological Warfare guys blasted music from Guns & Roses and Metallica at Manuel Noreiga's "compound" in Panama to get him to come out .

Ron


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I once worked in a data centre with a specialized fire alarm system which emitted not only loud noises but a combination of tones designed by psychologists to be extremely disturbing (thus forcing people out of the building before the 9tons of CO2 were released to replace air in building). It worked so well that I had a headache after the alarm test even though I was outside of the building and felt real anxiety while the thing was going off. I can imagine a modern, directional system as that described above should do a good job of keeping the BGs at a distance. And perhaps, in extremis, it could play "Indian Love Call" by Slim Whitman (for those who watched "Mars Attacks")


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

I have read accounts by several wise cruisers and they all lament the same thing. They have been to foreign lands, an it never fails that there's some loudmouth in a club boasting all about his equipment. Said loudmouth is then followed back to his boat. Once located, the boat gets nailed at an opportune moment. Granted, this isn't the same as being intercepted offshore, but it's no better either, perhaps worse. It flies in the face of human nature. We all like to talk about our doo-dads, but the survivor knows how to be quiet.


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## Snboard976 (Aug 10, 2008)

The sonic gun is called a long range acoustic device, or LRAD. It is used primarily in crowd dispersal and riot control. It has also been used to deter at least one pirate attack. ADD WWW HERE "breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1". 

Both Raytheon and American Technology Corporation have a consumer version, but I think the size and cost of it make it impractical for any boat that I will ever own.


I wish I could put links in my posts, but I have to make 10 posts before I am allowed. Can an admin help me here?


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## RichNH (Aug 5, 2008)

An old saying I'm fond of "When they're coming over the wire, its too late to learn your job."

The best defense is one where you think about the possibilities beforehand. Come up with the various scenarios that might happen and then *make a plan*. The worst thing you can do is not think about defense until the time is upon you. If you can't use firearms, think Midages technology and defend your castle. 

Can you hook up a garden hose to spray hot water on the deck? A number of instant water heaters in series would do.

Raise a large pail with tacks up the mast, rigged to be emptied on deck from inside the cabin?

Caustic substances are great, pepperspray, especially if it can be sprayed into the entrance way from inside the cabin (if it'll repel a bear) it'll help you, *especially* if it's not expected. Heck ANYTHING you can hit them with that not expected is great. The idea is to sow panic in them!

Have you ever seen the movie Home Alone or any of the sequels? Take that kind of attitude and *think* about a plan. It'll be difficult to maintain, you may go years without anything happening. You may never have a problem. Complacency will be your greatest enemy. And making an active defense will cause some to call you paranoid. 

But if something does happen, having a plan in place will go a long way to surviving the incident. You will not panic and freeze if you have a plan in place because most panic is caused by the sudden realization that you have NO plan for what is happening to you. 

The other thing is NEVER under estimate how vicious someone can be, especially someone coming onto you boat in the middle of the night (or into your house or into your camper, etc etc etc.) You may want to try a low level of resistance first, but be very prepared to offer massive resistance in very short order.

Finally, you *have* to have a plan for lethal defense should they get inside. Forget the kitchen knives, they are too fragile. Get yourself a set of sturdy carving knives (the longer the better) where the blade runs thru the handle. Use duct tape and wooden poles (the kind used in closets to hang clothes from) and tape the knives to the end of the pole to make a spear (even better if you can fit the knives to the ends. If there's more than one of you, while one person wages the topside battle from inside the cabin the other tapes knives to the the poles. If you have to use then, go for the face and neck and have an extremely bright light behind you (at night) so they are looking into it and you are not. Above all, THINK!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

greasing the deck might work as a deterrent.


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## craigtoo (Aug 17, 2007)

RichNH said:


> An old saying I'm fond of "When they're coming over the wire, its too late to learn your job."
> 
> The best defense is one where you think about the possibilities beforehand. Come up with the various scenarios that might happen and then *make a plan*. The worst thing you can do is not think about defense until the time is upon you. If you can't use firearms, think Midages technology and defend your castle.
> 
> ...


HOLY CRAP! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON UP THERE IN NH..!?!?
  

Kidding.. Nice post RichNH...Think in advance because when the time comes you have to be in some sort of Autopilot and know what options you have.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

My meager experience in this....

Someone broke into a house I was staying in while in college. In East New York. mind you... After it was all over, I realized that the element of surprise was my best defense. We had a small dog that would bark often. That early morning it was barking away, as usual, but suddenly, in my waking dream, I heard it growl.... I realized that the dog was actually facing someone... 
I got up and sneaked a peak down the stairs, and here he was, slinking up the staircase. I grabbed something, (broom stick) and while screaming bloody murder charged him. He turned around and fled. 
I spent next hour riding in a police car trying to identify the guy. I heard later that he got caught. 
Lesson 1: If you can surprise him, you have a good chance.... 
Lesson 2: Have something more substantial then a broom stick handy. 
Lesson 3: Do not get surprised yourself...

I suspect a very strong light, using some kind of motion sensor would do the trick in most situations. As far as dealing with pirates I would follow a simple rule: don't go places where you have to defend yourself. It is not worth it... You would not sail into a hurricane, would you....


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> greasing the deck might work as a deterrent.


You'd be surprised how much chaos a handful or three of washing powder (it's caustic) can cause when thrown into the air... and that would have an added advantage if the decks were wet. 

Hmm.. I suppose you could rig boarding nettings from the boom. If you used old fishing net, that might keep the birds off your boat as well. 

Then.. add a cat to catch the birds and what with wet, slippery decks, a fishing net covered in crazed birds trying to escape a cat madly chasing them, the bad guys would be sure to find an easier boat to tackle!! 

Note to self: Coffee and chocolate is not a good mix..


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Tippmann Pnuematics full auto paintball gun and a boat load ( as in a bunch ) of frozen paintballs, non-lethal but frozen or not they hurt like a SOB.

Pop & Toss pepper grenades tossed into whatever vessel they arrived in 

Bear mace pepper shot if they get onboard


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

i wonder if a 12 gauge flare gun would hold up to a few bean bag shot gun rounds, they are non lethal


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## sapo (Nov 6, 2007)

dealing with very close quarters is gonna be just hand to hand. with modest weapons. At a moderate distance. certainly a greek fire concept with diesel fuel, scuba tank, propane torch ignitor could be prefabbed, and not look like a weapon. paint it white. for a few dollars more an industrial laser could look like a watermaker, and at least disorient unwanted visitors.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Bright flashlights. 60 lumens or more. Can be found for $50. You'll use this little guy for way more than just blinding intruders, most are also built to break glass with rounded off spikes at the end not to mention waterproof. Some nicer models can put out 120 lumens and fit in a 4" long package the size of a Ball Park Frank. Customs won't look twice. 

I like the spear idea, however, in cramped boat interiors, it wouldn't take much to get past a 12" carving knife on the end of a broom stick.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

zz is talking about tactical flashlights, like this one:



It makes a pretty nifty weapon too.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I use my surefire for quite a lot as well and it is a very effective method to shock someone temporarily, even in daylight. My only complaint (albeit a quiet one) is that it is fed with Lithium batteries that are rather pricey. It is much more efficient and less weighty than the old standy, the D-Cell driven Maglite.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

3-Volt Lithium Batteries 20/Pack

123A 3 volts $20 for a pack of 20. $1 a battery. Cheapest I could find, but I keep my TLR-1 on my pistol at home, so it doens't get used a lot. Need to pick up something like a 'normal' surefire for the boat.


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## bluwateronly (Jul 8, 2008)

I was just wondering how smart it would be to fire a flare gun or any fire type system in your boat. I would think it could burn you to the waterline at worst or aleast cause alot of damage. I have not seen anybody mention this and if they did sorry I missed it.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You could always use a few pieces of thin plywood the size of your steps and have several nails driven through these boards. and attach them to your entry steps, nail points up. and a couple placed where some one tried to by-pass those surprizes on the steps, they would land on them. 

You just have to remember that they are there if you get up in the night and wander about. ouch! oochy! Ouch! Dang it! I forgot about the nail boards....

Remember some booby traps can and will backfire on you. So be careful, be very careful....


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## RichNH (Aug 5, 2008)

craigtoo said:


> HOLY CRAP! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON UP THERE IN NH..!?!?


You have NO idea... This state's motto is "Live Free or Die!" and it attracts some very unusual people....


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## billgow (May 26, 2008)

sapo said:


> certainly a greek fire concept with diesel fuel, scuba tank, propane torch ignitor could be prefabbed, and not look like a weapon. paint it white.


This is one of the smartest ideas I've seen. Clearly many who have posted here have no idea how to interpret a threat or how to respond effectively so maybe it's better they don't have the means to inflict harm.

I figure whatever you're cruising in has a tank of gas or diesel. While the threat is still inbound prepare to hose the attackers down with your pre-assembled high pressure assembly and begin launching flairs at them.

Once on board, you better have a weapon. My choice would be a 12 gauge Winchester 1300 shotgun with collapsible stock, 18" barrel and magazine extension, filled with Aguila "Minibuck" shells loaded with #4 buck shot. The shells in the gun should be the only ones on board. If you have to ditch the gun, it's not going to break the bank and there's nothing left on board afterwards. They're made in stainless just for this purpose. The extension will hold enough of these 1 1/2" rounds to either finish off your assailants or force them to make their escape.

Pilferage is one thing, an attack is another. If a group, brandishing weapons is about to board your boat, don't kid yourself, they *do* mean you harm. They have to kill you so you don't identify them later.

I like the intense lighting idea too. This should allow you to get the wind at your back as you open the nozzle....

The best way to avoid something like this is to stay alert. Colonel Cooper, father of what is commonly known as the "Modern Technique" of handgun shooting used the following to make his point;

_The most important means of surviving a lethal confrontation is, according to Cooper, neither the weapon nor the martial skills. The primary tool is the combat mindset, set forth in "Principles of Personal Defense".

In the chapter on awareness, Cooper presents an adaptation of the Marine Corps system to differentiate states of readiness:

* *White* - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

* *Yellow* - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." You are simply aware that the world is an unfriendly place and that you are prepared to do something, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to SHOOT today." You don't have to be armed in this state but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six". (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep.

* *Orange* - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does "x", I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

* *Red* - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger has been "tripped" (established back in Condition Orange). You take appropriate action._

Being a pacifist is all well and good when it's only your @$$ on the line. When it involves your family and friends, it a serious lapse of judgment under these circumstances.

You learned how to sail, you should also take the time to learn how to defend yourself and your loved ones.


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