# Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD



## flyingjib (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello Gurus,
I have a delama: I have a small 8' inflatable dinghy (Zodiac) that came with my boat when it was originally purchased. It was not powered so didn't need registration. After rowing away for a while, I'm now planning to get an outboard and I was told it needed to be registered in Maryland. Looking at DNR website, it seems like I would need a title or a notarized bill of sale. Since it came with my sailboat, I have none of those. What are my options now? Continue rowing?

Thanks!
Aaron


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Show them the bill of sale for the boat and tell them it was "ship's equipment".

Might work??


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## Michael K (Feb 27, 2006)

I suggest you call or go to the DNR office and talk to someone there. When in a similar predicament several years ago, they told me to send a certified letter return receipt to the previous owner. If you get no response DNR _may_ work with you. But things may be different now. Still, worth a try.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

WA doesn't require registration unless the dinghy motor is above 10hp or the motorized dinghy is being used for purposes other than acting as a boat to shore tender. Are you sure that MD does require registration?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Alex W said:


> WA doesn't require registration unless the dinghy motor is above 10hp or the motorized dinghy is being used for purposes other than acting as a boat to shore tender. Are you sure that MD does require registration?


Yes....I am sure he is right in MD it is required. I was in the same predicament and used the Bill of sale of the boat as it was never previously registered as it had no motor. I talked to a person at DNR first and got a name to use if challenged. Other thing you can do is have your wife/ brother make out a bill of sale and get it notorized?

dave


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Is it like Florida where there are "tag & title" agencies everywhere? There is a (shaaaaady) one right by me that was able to things done for me on my dinghy when I needed to register it. I was in much the same shape...never registered it because it didn't have an engine. 

All Florida cared about was whether sales tax was paid. We "found" the original receipt showing it has


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## flyingjib (Mar 5, 2012)

Thanks as always guys! Lots of good suggestions. Worse case scenario, I'm back to rowing!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm not going to say break the law...

Make one up. 

shucks, I lied. 

They (DNR) would have had me cut my pristine condition 1955 Lyman runabout into toothpicks if they had their way. MVA is no better, my never titled original trailer was only suitable for the landfill. 

Silly, bureaucratic idiots.


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

As I understand it, IF,IF it's used as a 'tender',(going from the boat to shore and back), even with a small motor, it doesn't need it's own set of reg. #'s. Any other use it must have reg #'s. That's how I was told it work.


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## flyingjib (Mar 5, 2012)

Interesting... Mine is definitely just a tender. First time I heard this though. I have to bite the bullet and stop by DNR office next week... Thanks!


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Tagged... for update from flyingjib once he's been to DNR !

Same here! Got my RIB as a gift from a landscaper who removed it as part of a job. No idea where/who it came from?! 
I'd sure like ta know if a BoS from *someone* would suit the DNR in MD..if needed? I planned to row it anyway!:raspberries:


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

flyingjib said:


> Interesting... Mine is definitely just a tender. First time I heard this though. I have to bite the bullet and stop by DNR office next week... Thanks!


The worst that is going to happen is that the state of Maryland, up against the ropes due to funding constraints, is going to 'assess the present value' of the dink and 'allow' you to pay the current sales tax on that assessed value.

So prepare for such and find comprehensive documentary evidence (newspapers, ebay, craigs list, etc.) of the current selling prices of same/similar and same AGE of used dinks. .... and be sure to take that documentary evidence along with you. If you do not, the tax collectors will simply guess (obviously in their 'fair share' favor) as to the value and most probably try to 'get away' for taxing you as if this were a brand new dink with MD sales taxes unpaid. Do your careful homework to develop this comprehensive and exhaustive pricing list evidence, ... or the tax people will err overwhelmingly in their favor, not yours, when taxes are to be extracted from rich boat owners.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

> Vessels 12' in length and smaller
> DNR Form B-240
> Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin
> Pencil tracing or photograph of Hull identification number
> Evidence of payment


 I would call DNR as you don't have a MCO/title. I used the same exact process for registration in NY. They didn't blink when i showed up without title. Just filled out another form, paid up and was on my way.


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

If you go to the MD DNR and do not get a satisfactory response, my advice is to try going to a different DNR location or waiting a few days and going back to the same DNR and hope to get a different official.

I went bonkers this past fall and winter trying to get a MD state sticker for the USCG documented vessel I had purchased. Everytime I went to the DNR I got a different person who told me a different story about what forms I needed, and none of it matched the requirements on the DNR web site. My friend, who was going through the same process, went to a different DNR location, got still a different story, and had to jump through far fewer hoops than I did with the Annapolis office.


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> I'm not going to say break the law...
> 
> Make one up...


I must admit that this was my first reaction as well. I thought to myself "self, if it were me I would SELL it to my neighbor for a FAIR price on a handshake, then purchase it from him for the same FAIR price with a bill of sale."

I know, that is bad bad bad bad... This is why I could never be a politician, I don't look good in orange.


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## sailvayu (Feb 3, 2013)

Why do you not go back to the guy you bought the boat from and ask him to give you a notarized bill of sale? I have done this a couple of times here in NC. If the PO is no longer around or you cannot find him explain that to the MD Reg folks and submit Hull ID I have done that before as well. Good luck

Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
Project Boat Zen - Boat and Yacht Repair and Restoration


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

AirborneSF said:


> As I understand it, IF,IF it's used as a 'tender',(going from the boat to shore and back), even with a small motor, it doesn't need it's own set of reg. #'s. Any other use it must have reg #'s. That's how I was told it work.


That may be true in some states but not in Maryland. If there is any mechanical propulsion, including an electric trolling motor, it needs to be registered.


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

That is true, but it is not used as a boat, it is used as a tender to the boat, for going from boat to shore, and back. As I said that was 'MY' understanding and "I HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD MANY THINGS IN MY LIFE"! Couldn't hurt to ask about that point?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> That may be true in some states but not in Maryland. If there is any mechanical propulsion, including an electric trolling motor, it needs to be registered.


Same rules in Florida.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> That may be true in some states but not in Maryland. If there is any mechanical propulsion, including an electric trolling motor, it needs to be registered.


Same in Florida...the politicians need to get theirs before we can enjoy a 2 hp engine pushing a 7 foot piece of plastic through the water


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

AirborneSF said:


> That is true, but it is not used as a boat, it is used as a tender to the boat, for going from boat to shore, and back. As I said that was 'MY' understanding and "I HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD MANY THINGS IN MY LIFE"! Couldn't hurt to ask about that point?


The bad news: You're wrong. In Maryland (and most states) you have to register all boats that have mechanical propulsion. Your argument that "it is not used as a boat" will elicit some rolled eyes from the authorities as they are writing you up.

The good news: Your registration may be free in Maryland if your boat is <16 ft. and <7.6 HP. You will be on the hook for sales or excise tax, though. But if your dinghy was purchased as part of the acquisition of the mother ship, you may have already paid your sales/excise tax. If you have evaded that tax for over 30 days, you may be in for some bad news when they find out.

All this can be found here: http://www.dmv.org/md-maryland/boat-registration.php#What-to-Register-


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

AirborneSF said:


> As I understand it, IF,IF it's used as a 'tender',(going from the boat to shore and back), even with a small motor, it doesn't need it's own set of reg. #'s. Any other use it must have reg #'s. That's how I was told it work.


Your understanding will lead to a ticket and a fine. 
Better to get the information yourself from DNR, not some guy on the dock.

How do I know if my vessel must be registered in Maryland?

Maryland Department of Natural Resources - Boating


> Your vessel, whether commercial or recreational, must be registered in Maryland if it is:
> 
> Equipped with any kind of primary or auxiliary mechanical propulsion; and
> Used in Maryland most in a calendar year.
> ...


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

I read this, from "What to register"...
"Recreational vessels with any type of mechanical propulsion system (primary or auxiliary), to be used mostly in Maryland waterways during the calender year."
as; no motor=no reg req'd.

also, from second linked site;
"Your vessel, whether commercial or recreational, must be registered in Maryland if it is:
Equipped with any kind of primary or auxiliary mechanical propulsion; and
Used in Maryland most in a calendar year.

Same response.. no motor; no registration req'd

Somewhere I recall seeing something about "under 16 feet, but that *may* have been in relation to free registration, with the same req's to document?!
Given my circumstances; I'm likely to call DNR and ask about the "abandoned boat" regs and the "gift" regs. I have absolutely no idea where/who the boat came from and other than going thru the "abandoned" route, I don;t see a way to document POs or ownership....hence the *rowing only* probability.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

That's the point Deltaten, any motor - registration required.

Even if you JUST use it for a tender - see the quoted text from Airborne.


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## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

Live and learn! Thanks.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

OTOH if they just gave out titles and stickers to anyone, good luck getting your stolen boat back and/or proving you even ever owned it in the first place.
I went nuts trying to get my BRAND NEW dinghy registered with the MD DNR folks.
It went like this:
MD: The HIN doesn't have enough digitis.
ME: Well that is the number. The boat came from Poland, so maybe they use less numbers. 
MD: Well they need more.
ME: Do you want to go with me to Poland and explain they are doing it wrong?
MD: Well they need more.
ME: OK, we can go, but you are paying for your own ticket and food!
(repeat about 10 more times)
MD: OK I give up! Here is a HIN for you I just made up. Inscribe it on the boat when you get home.
ME:

For the OP: Can you come up with a "bill of sale" that included the boat and the dinghy listed by HIN number


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Actually I am really glad that this thread came up. I have a cheap inflatable raft that I'm considering adding a trolling motor to. I don't need a dinghy for my normal daysailing, but I'm considering a week or two of cruising in the Chesapeake this summer, and may need a way to get to shore with my little dog. Since rowing will be difficult if I need to hold her, a trolling motor would be the perfect inexpensive addition to get us to shore and back.

I had been reluctant to add any mechanical propulsion because of the cost/bother of registering in PA. But since my state of primary use for this dinghy will be in Maryland, I think I'll take advantage of their free registration for low-power craft. I would not have learned about Maryland's free registration if I hadn't seen this thread.

[EDIT: The Minn Kota trolling motor that I've been considering just dropped to $80 after rebate on Amazon. It's usually $100, and the price history shows they drop the price a couple times a year for only one day, so I pulled the trigger. Looks like I'll definitely be registering my dink in Maryland.]


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Coquina said:


> OTOH if they just gave out titles and stickers to anyone, good luck getting your stolen boat back and/or proving you even ever owned it in the first place.
> I went nuts trying to get my BRAND NEW dinghy registered with the MD DNR folks.
> It went like this:
> MD: The HIN doesn't have enough digitis.
> ...


 I'm getting nightmares from remembering what it was like to deal with Maryland on everything. 

My advice, be the leaf, not the salmon. If they want a notarized bill of sale, sell it to your (wife, friend, relative) and then buy it back from them, on a notarized bill of sale, and put whatever they want on that Bill of Sale. I've had to do that before.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Maryland's Governor Martin Owe-Mally decided to go green. His new state slogan is *"Keep Maryland Green - Bring Money!"*

Gary


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Well I'm sending off my title/registration documents to Annapolis tonight. I have a certificate of origin generated from the manufacturer's website, and sales printouts from Amazon for the $100 raft and $80 trolling motor. I'm enclosing $6.72 to cover $2 title fee and $4.72 excise tax (after credit for what I paid Pennsylvania).

Getting a handwritten "bill of sale" from Amazon.com is impossible. So we'll see just how much grief they want to give me over a $180 purchase.


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

I have a buddy that's a PI, and he couldn't find any records of registration in PA, DE or anything at all in MD on my RIB's HIN. No registration, no BoS, no nuthin'! Like it never existed at all.
Ginning up a BoS is a tad past my comfort level, so until they come up with some sorta amnesty pgm...I'll be rowing!


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## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

Sell it to your wife with a notorized bill of sale or have her sell it to you. So long as its hull number doesnt come up stolen , your golden.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Familycruisers said:


> Sell it to your wife with a notorized bill of sale or have her sell it to you. So long as its hull number doesnt come up stolen , your golden.


I saw that when it was posted the first time. IIRC, Dave suggested this idea, but he had not actually done it. It's a cute trick that might have worked on one state somewhere or might have "slipped through the cracks" with a lenient DMV/DNR person. However, when you read through all of Maryland's requirements, it's not sufficient. If your wife sells the vessel to you, it is now a "used boat," which means it needs to have the original title to be registered in Maryland under your name. So to meet this requirement, you need to have your wife title it before selling it, which takes you back to the original problem.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> I saw that when it was posted the first time. IIRC, Dave suggested this idea, but he had not actually done it. It's a cute trick that might have worked on one state somewhere or might have "slipped through the cracks" with a lenient DMV/DNR person. However, when you read through all of Maryland's requirements, it's not sufficient. If your wife sells the vessel to you, it is now a "used boat," which means it needs to have the original title to be registered in Maryland under your name. So to meet this requirement, you need to have your wife title it before selling it, which takes you back to the original problem.


It is possible to launder a title for Maryland by just finding a friend with an address in a state where it is easier to get a title, "selling" the boat to him, letting him title it, and then signing the title over to you. You can then take that title to Maryland.

I lived in Maryland for six years. Nothing is easy there, but think akido, not karate, when dealing with Maryland officials.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

My local Maryland DNR office told me to simply bring in a pencil-rubbing of my dinghy's HIN plate, and a purchase receipt if I have one, and they would issue me a title.

Maryland beauracracy is bad, but I think you guys may be making this more difficult than it really is.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> Well I'm sending off my title/registration documents to Annapolis tonight. I have a certificate of origin generated from the manufacturer's website, and sales printouts from Amazon for the $100 raft and $80 trolling motor. I'm enclosing $6.72 to cover $2 title fee and $4.72 excise tax (after credit for what I paid Pennsylvania).
> 
> Getting a handwritten "bill of sale" from Amazon.com is impossible. So we'll see just how much grief they want to give me over a $180 purchase.


Guess what - Maryland doesn't care how much you paid for the dink. They're going to charge you for the Book Value of it, and I think they made up the book prices. This is true even if you have a bill of sale.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

BubbleheadMd said:


> My local Maryland DNR office told me to simply bring in a pencil-rubbing of my dinghy's HIN plate, and a purchase receipt if I have one, and they would issue me a title.
> 
> Maryland beauracracy is bad, but I think you guys may be making this more difficult than it really is.


I agree completely. In the past I've registered boats in NJ, PA, and MD, and while the quality of people that you have to deal with can vary greatly, I've never found an insurmountable barrier. The ones I've talked to all basically say that their goals are to make sure stolen vessels are detected, and taxes are collected. They insist that the "horror stories" that you read about are all cases of people trying to get away without paying taxes or registering a stolen boat, and that the Internet legends that we all read usually do not have a full disclosure of all the the facts.

With this in mind, doing a fictitious sale to your wife is bound to accomplish nothing more than raising unwanted and unnecessary suspicion.

In my own case (registering a raft/trolling motor that was purchased from Amazon.com), Maryland's requirements are spelled out very clearly on their website:



> New Vessel Purchased via Internet
> 
> When a vessel is purchased via the Internet, and is shipped with a manufacturer's certificate of origin (MCO) that contains no signature or a preprinted signature, or purchaser is directed to a website to create the MCO, the following is required to establish ownership:
> 
> ...


My Intex raft fits this exactly. I generated my Certificate of Origin by going to Intex's website and typing in my HIN that was stamped on the raft.

Unfortunately, I sent my materials last night before finding this little explanation on the website, and I did not include a photo of the HIN. I just called down and spoke to Cathy in the Annapolis office, and she said that Amazon purchases have become so commonplace that they have started accepting these without requiring the tracing/photo. So I should be good to go. I'll let you guys know how it went.

The biggest problem I ever had was registering a 40 year old boat trailer in PA. I had bought my Phantom sailboat with trailer from an elderly couple in NJ who were retiring to Arizona. They had two boats and trailers, and could only take one with them (they kept the newer of the two trailers). I took their paperwork but did not register right away because I was moving from NJ to PA in a few months. Upon arriving in PA, I went to register the trailer and discovered that the people had accidentally given me the paperwork for the trailer that they took to Arizona. I actually tracked them down by phone, but the husband was in the hospital for severe diabetes and the wife obviously couldn't deal with the issue under the circumstances. So I got the head of the Montgomery County DMV office, an old guy who seemed like he had "seen it all", to come outside and look at my rusty, 40 year old trailer, and I told him, "If I were going to steal a trailer, I would have picked a much nicer one to take." He laughed and stamped my paperwork.

Sometimes you just have to find the right person to reason with. I hope I don't have to go down to Annapolis in person for a $100 raft, but something tells me that this issue of $100-200 purchases from Amazon.com has become commonplace enough that they know how to deal with it.

[EDIT: I just got a call back from Sue in the Annapolis office. She was responding to a voicemail questions that I left three days ago. She told me the exact same thing that Cathy told me, and said this should fly through with no problem, even though I left out a photo of the HIN.]


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

travlineasy said:


> Guess what - Maryland doesn't care how much you paid for the dink. They're going to charge you for the Book Value of it, and I think they made up the book prices. This is true even if you have a bill of sale...


I think you're being way too cynical. We'll see in a week or so.

I dare you to find a book value on an Intex Seahawk II inflatable raft. I paid $115 brand new from Amazon. If they want to come back to me claiming it's worth $200, they'll get an extra $4.25 out of me. I would hope that they've got bigger fish to fry.

I suspect that if you try to buy a $10,000 boat and have a bill of sale for $100, you're not gonna get away with it. But something that can be easily bought online for $115 is worth $115. There's no argument that its book value is more than that, and DNR would be stupid to make that claim. I know you're trying to make them look stupid, but this is a real stretch.

Why do you sound so bitter about this? Do you have an axe to grind? What actual experience do you have with DNR actually screwing you with excise taxes?

It's fine to be anti-tax. Make your voice heard at the ballot box. Give your representative hell. But don't go making stuff up.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

No being cynical - they wanted more when I purchased the Morgan 33, claiming the book value was twice the amount I paid. This, even when confronted with the bill of sale, survey results, and survey estimated value. After an hour, talking with several people in the Boating Services Department, finally got them to accept my documentation. I guess it's all in who you have to deal with. And, yes, it's just another way of taking money out of your pocket and placing it in the state coffers. Taxes, fees, they're all the same thing.

Gary


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## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

How about the Rain Tax??? Naw man, MD isnt trying to reach into every pocket of every one of its citizens as deeply as it can go. Not at all.


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