# Is this a good place to anchor a boat?



## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Hello all, not sure if this is the right place to ask these questions. I am looking at picking up my first boat. It is a free 1975 C&C 25 no engine. I do not know how to sail and decided that if I did pick it up I would make an adventure of it. The boat is in an anchorage in the Chesapeake Bay. I want to sail it around to and up the Delaware River to the Philadelphia area where I reside. I can not afford a marina currently. I would like to keep the boat in an anchorage long term. The first question I have is what exactly is defined as an anchorage? The second question I have is a bit more specific. On this chart would the area near fisher point dike be a good place to anchor a boat? It's secluded and has practically no traffic and is deep enough for the boat. I am also guessing that the island and the peninsula would keep the rolling waves to a minimum. I will probably only keep the boat there for a week or two at a time with no movement.

Edit: I can not link the chart. It was a depth chart for the area. Fisher Point Dike is near Petty Island which is next to Philadelphia.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Welcome aboard. 

I'm afraid your question is a little hard to understand. You said you don't know how to sail and the boat has no engine. Finding a long term anchorage is not the problem. Maybe a little more clarity on your plan would help. Leaving a boat at anchor is a risky idea, if you're not familiar with anchors, scope, rode, chafe, etc. 

p.s. there is no such thing as a free boat. What condition is she in and why was she given away?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Not wise to leave an unattended boat anchor for long periods of time.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> Not wise to leave an unattended boat anchor for long periods of time.


That's true, although, it is done. I would not do it.

The bigger issue, it seems, is if one can't afford a slip or a mooring, they will never be able to afford a "free" boat. Free boats almost always needs thousands of dollars in repairs, many of which are not obvious to those who've never owned one before. If it's being handed down from a trusted Grandfather, that may be the exception. Not usually the case with "free" finds.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Welcome Bobby,

Plenty of New England sailors here that know the area. 

Strongly suggest you learn a bit about sailing, or bring along someone with good experience who can teach you, or you could well get into more 'adventure' than you bargained for. That's a long trip, and you're going to need a motor.

Also; TowBoat US GOLD towing insurance. Because an uninsured tow can be financially catastrophic.

Finally, a free sailboat is something like a free puppy, only much larger and needier, and will chew up much more than your shoes.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

There is an old saying along the lines of, "A 'free' boat is the most expensive boat you'll ever own." This is an old, and well-known saying for a very good reason. You are soon going to find out the reason.

All I can say is, good luck, because you're going to need it!


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

A couple of thoughts. That's New Jersey ( Pennsauken). It's not a " designated anchorage" but, it's navigable waters, so I'm no aware of any laws that would prevent you from anchoring there. ( That's not to say, that someone won't take issue) I'd certainly make sure the boat was properly registered and insured and has all the required equipment aboard. Because someone will be checking you out. ( N.J. State Police, Marine Division, or Coast Guard.) I'd also make sure I had tow insurance. 

Getting up river and in to that anchorage would be quite a feat without an engine. What would you do when there's no wind, drift with the current? Anchor and wait? How would you get to and from the boat at at anchorage ? Dinghy? Where would you store it or launch it from? 

There's a yacht club further up the river. Riverton Yacht Club. I believe a member here, Denise, was/is a member there. She would have the best " Local Knowledge" for you. AFAIK, Riverton YC offers moorings for rent. Looks like $1220 for the Season + a dinghy storage fee. $250 for winter Storage, and about $1,000 to become a member ( $600 initiation fee, $490 membership fee.) Might want to look in to that. works out to about $ 166/mo. After the initiation fee. Or $5.50/day. The price of a Starbucks coffee. 

Good Luck. I've only sailed in that area once, it wasn't all that much fun. ( narrow river, strong currents, traffic ) I'd probably leave it in the Chesapeake and drive to and from the boat.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Minnewaska said:


> Welcome aboard.
> 
> I'm afraid your question is a little hard to understand. You said you don't know how to sail and the boat has no engine. Finding a long term anchorage is not the problem. Maybe a little more clarity on your plan would help. Leaving a boat at anchor is a risky idea, if you're not familiar with anchors, scope, rode, chafe, etc.
> 
> p.s. there is no such thing as a free boat. What condition is she in and why was she given away?


I know there is no such thing as a free boat. I have done a ton of research and understand the costs associated with repairing a boat. But I like to find projects and fix them. I have a full fleet of cars I've brought back from the dead. The plan to just have a boat that I can fix up and restore while also exploring the coast before school is back in session. I do not have a job so I have nothing preventing me from sailing every day. As such I will not be leaving the boat unattended for very long during the summer. Before school starts, I will most likely have the boat pulled out of the water. Essentially I am fine with being in a cosmetically unpleasing boat if it means I get to explore the coast and gain experience. I am young and up for a fun and potentially dangerous adventure.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

If you proceed with this notion, in addition to towing insurance you should have adequate life insurance. Sailing 25' boat around the Delmarva peninsula and up the Delaware is way beyond your skill level. Check with Pennsauken officials 609-292-2965 regarding anchoring between Pettys island and the mainland.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

tempest said:


> A couple of thoughts. That's New Jersey ( Pennsauken). It's not a " designated anchorage" but, it's navigable waters, so I'm no aware of any laws that would prevent you from anchoring there. ( That's not to say, that someone won't take issue) I'd certainly make sure the boat was properly registered and insured and has all the required equipment aboard. Because someone will be checking you out. ( N.J. State Police, Marine Division, or Coast Guard.) I'd also make sure I had tow insurance.
> 
> Getting up river and in to that anchorage would be quite a feat without an engine. What would you do when there's no wind, drift with the current? Anchor and wait? How would you get to and from the boat at at anchorage ? Dinghy? Where would you store it or launch it from?
> 
> ...


I was actually contemplating leaving it in the Chesapeake. It is just a bit of a longer drive for something I want to use extensively. I will be using a lightweight kayak to go from the boat to shore. It is something that is easy to carry. The location I was asking about is walking distance to my home. And for marinas, I think most do not have any open spots. The ones I checked didn't have open spots at least. And as for sailing up the river. I have actually been doing research on how to accomplish that. Common sense tells me that the wind would go the same direction as the current in a river. Which from my research would suggest that I would have to do some tacking and such to sail upriver. I was assuming that the Delaware River was wide enough for such a thing. But apparently, my common sense is no good. It is very well possible for the wind to blow a direction that doesn't follow the current. Which would make the trip much easier if my research is correct. If the wind stops I would either anchor or row depending on how I am feeling lol.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

So… this is not really a rational or reasonable plan. It’s not a smart or safe plan. But if none of these things really matter. If you are reasonably skilled, tolerant of risk, have no other dependents, and are a bit lucky, then it could be an awesome adventure. 

To try and answer your questions, I can’t say specifically if this is a good anchorage area, but in general you are allowed to anchor in any area that doesn’t impede the normal flow of traffic. There can also be additional local restrictions as well, so check those out. 

As others have said, leaving a boat at anchor unattended for a long period is a risky prospect, but this whole plan is risky, so that’s no big deal. I don’t know how you’ll get upstream without an engine, but boaters of old did it, so all part of the adventure I suppose.

The bigger concern I would have is to ensure you don’t create a problem for others if the whole project goes sideways. I hope you have enough resources/insurance to pay for a cleanup of a wreck. I’m sure you’d agree that it’s fine for you to take these risks, but no one else should have to pay.


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## DinghyRace (May 31, 2019)

I used to boat this section of the river on my parents powerboat, and it used to be fairly heavily trafficked with the large naval vessels (you’ll be passing the Philadelphia Navy Yard), and large container and oil barges (Petty Island is home of Crowley Liner & Logistics, and it’s just below Buckeye Terminals, famous Buckeye Pipeline, etc.). I haven’t been down there in years, but it was plenty busy with big boats and barges in the 1980’s.

I still have friends who race dinghies at a few of the YC’s on the Delaware, and they tell me the guy who drops anchor first is sometimes the one who wins the race, the current is often stronger than the wind in that area. This could be a challenging sail for someone who knows what they’re doing, and near-suicidal for a first-timer with no sailing experience.

There are several sailing clubs and yacht clubs in the area, Liberty being the closest to your location, and geared toward dinghy sailing and family events. I’d say a better first step is to hit their docks at 5:30pm tonight for their Friday Social Sailing, or 1pm on Sunday, and meet some of the members. They’ll be able to give you good local advice, likely give you some on-board time, and maybe even help you with your next steps.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I'd feel a lot better about your plan if it included hanging a 9.9 hp engine on it. DinghyRace offers some good advice, walk the docks get invited on a boat and see what you're up against.


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

I wouldn't worry about the river. Since this plan starts with sailing down to the mouth of the Chesapeake, then the up the full length of the Delmarva peninsula (nonstop and overnight? Since I'd think it's hard to go in anywhere without an engine. What kind of equipment/instruments does it have?). Then up the Delaware bay, which i understand can have a pretty significant current and traffic? All in a boat that in a state so bad that the previous owner couldn't even get $1000 for it, and gave it away to save having it taken to the dump? I've seen boats from that era that cost money, but are in a horrible state! I'd be very surprised if this ever gets anywhere close to the river, let alone the anchorage!

Oh, and I almost forgot; OP doesn't know how to sail either? A short hop along the Atlantic coast will definitely force you to learn fast if nothing else..


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

tempest said:


> I'd feel a lot better about your plan if it included hanging a 9.9 hp engine on it. DinghyRace offers some good advice, walk the docks get invited on a boat and see what you're up against.


I think might do this. Although I do want an adventure I do not want to do something that is essentially impossible. What I will probably do is register, title, and insure the boat. Then move it to a safe anchorage in the Chesapeake. Then fit an outboard as soon as I find one. Only because of the traffic though. If there was no traffic I would just try to sail the whole thing.


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## SeanM26 (Feb 18, 2018)

Bringing old cars back to life is a cake-walk compared to a floating home that WILL try to kill you.

I buy, repair, and flip "mechanic's specials" to help fund my boat projects. 

To further relate it to restoring a car, it is like restoring and maintaining a race-prepped, air-cooled Porsche 911.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

bobbyjones said:


> I think might do this. Although I do want an adventure I do not want to do something that is essentially impossible. What I will probably do is register, title, and insure the boat. Then move it to a safe anchorage in the Chesapeake. Then fit an outboard as soon as I find one. Only because of the traffic though. If there was no traffic I would just try to sail the whole thing.


I would certainly get someone who knows boats to have a look at it.

Even though it's free you have 1 huge liability: as soon as you own it you are responsible for its disposal. It won't fit in a trash can. It may cost you $10,000 to recycle it once you've worked out it can't sail again.

So please heed all the alarm bells ringing in virtually every response you've had.
Tread very carefully because free is really quite a huge liability. 
.

Mark


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

bobbyjones said:


> I was assuming that the Delaware River was wide enough for such a thing. But apparently, my common sense is no good. It is very well possible for the wind to blow a direction that doesn't follow the current.


The direction of current is determined by where the current is going.

Wind direction is the opposite. Direction is determined by where the wind is coming from.

Negating other factors, when drifting, a north current will take you basically the same direction as a south wind.

Etc.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Mark's point really opens up the door to some of the $$$ risks. What happens if you have to dispose of this Free boat? that could cost a ton. At minimum, you'd have to pay for dry storage for a boat you're unable to use.

You say that you're not working. Can we assume that you're living at Home with a parent (s) ? and you go back to school in the Fall? 

The boat is currently located in an anchorage on the Chesapeake. Is it really at anchor, or on a Mooring? 

I'd forget the Delaware river, and spend the entire summer cruising the Chesapeake Bay. If you're not working, what do you do for money? ( rhetorical) Assuming you have some resources, make the boat your home for the summer. 

A few things: Once you put a motor on it. ( and you should) you're going to need a Boating License or a Boating Safety Certificate. Which one depends on where you decide to Register the Boat. See if you can find someone to take you out and give you a crash course in sailing, or find someone of like mind who knows how to sail and will Cruise the Chesapeake with you until you're up to speed. Put your kayak on the deck. That should be adventure enough. It's June, so you've got 3 months to get it done!


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## peikenberry (Apr 26, 2000)

If, after you learn to sail, familiarize yourself with the boat, follow most of the advice given here, you decide to still make the trip, rent an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) from BOATUS https://boatus.org/epirb/rentals/, or buy a PLB. It will make it easy for the Coast Guard to find you if the trip goes bad, which is highly likely. And take a course on navigation. https://www.boatus.org/navigation/

I have made the trip you are talking about, but on a 210 foot Coast Guard Cutter. It is no piece of cake. We started out in beautiful weather from Yorktown, went south on the Chesapeake and out to the Atlantic. Within hours of turning north the weather went really bad, even though the local forecast was for good weather. Through out the night we sailed through a fleet of sailboats in a race. They were very very glad we were there. Fortunately they were all experienced sailors and sailing much bigger boats than yours. By morning it blew itself out and when we anchored overnight off Cape May it was like a mill pond. By morning it was nasty again. This was in May. At sea weather can change rapidly. In a small boat that can mean you end your adventure at the end of a hoist basket from a Coast Guard Helicopter.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

bobbyjones said:


> I think might do this. Although I do want an adventure I do not want to do something that is essentially impossible. What I will probably do is register, title, and insure the boat. Then move it to a safe anchorage in the Chesapeake. Then fit an outboard as soon as I find one. Only because of the traffic though. If there was no traffic I would just try to sail the whole thing.


You can't be serious.....in Darwin's survival of the fittest you will be the first on off the globe.

I would be the first to commend you if you had any parts of your plan which was well thought out or made sense, however

1-you've not learned to sail yet
2 - you are thinking of taking a substantially difficult trip, even for a seasoned sailor on a well founded boat which had been gone over
3- you think current direction is caused by wind
4- you are going to make your way up the Delaware tacking across it in a 4 knot current. Even the British were smarter than that and anchored the cumbersome wooden ships when the current reversed. ( by the way 2 times a day like clockwork no matter which direction or how strong the wind
5- it's against the law to sail the C&D Canal without an engine on from the Delaware to the Chessie
6- you know nothing about registering a boat and think you just going to anchor it somewhere on the Chesapeake without the authorities or neighbors spotting you ( oh that's right you don't know how to anchor yet)
7- whose gonna pay when the boat sinks and becomes an environmental hazard and has no insurance.

Either this is a joke...or it's a troll.....no one could propose this being a successful venture. But then again there is Darwin


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

BobbyJones.

Don't get too dismayed. Just Consider this part of your research. There's lot's of good advice here from folks that have extensive experience. I, for one, hope you are successful in learning to sail and having an adventure. 

To summarize some of the tips you've gotten here:

1.) have the boat looked over by someone who knows what to look for, before taking possession. Otherwise, you'll own all the problems and expenses that go with it. 

2.) If you accept it. ( hopefully seaworthy) Learn to sail, register and insure the boat, put an outboard on it and obtain the proper boating safety certificate. Make sure you have all the coast guard required safety equipment. In other words be legal. By all means get towing insurance. It's the best money you'll ever spend. Consider the outboard an essential piece of safety equipment. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to. But it's there when you need it. 

3.) I'd stay on the Chesapeake and sail it all summer long. You could probably spend a a lifetime exploring it in small day-sail sized pieces. Forget the Delaware river idea. It would be more work, than fun.

4.) spend some time learning/reading about tides and currents and weather etc. and how to read a nautical chart. 

5.) don't be shy about asking for help learning to sail, lots of people may come forward to assist in your learning curve.

It's a big learning curve. After 45 years on the water, I still learn something every day. We all make mistakes when starting out any new adventure. Folks here just want to make sure, you survive yours. 

I once Set off to Bermuda, with no long distance communications whatsoever. Today that would probably be considered irrational. ha, even then it was. 

When I started hiking in the Adirondacks in the middle of winter, I had no idea what proper clothing and equipment was. We learned fast. 

I bet if you told people on these boards where this boat was located, on the Chesapeake, you'd probably find someone nearby who might be willing to meet you, look over the boat with you and give you some pointers. then if it all checks out, get busy, and go sailing. If not, find your next adventure. You could always Kayak Camp in the Adirondacks, that could take all summer!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Love to hear of a young adventure. This one is entirely unrealistic on its face. Although, I haven’t heard how the OP plans to learn to sail. I assume (do not know) that MD and PA have laws requiring one to pass a boater safety course. Whether they do or not, the OP must be taught the basics of the rules of the road. You can not just figure them out.

If the OP hasn’t been beat up so much they never come back, they should ask us for whatever help they may need. Referrals to local instructors, for example. 

While this anchoring idea is grossly premature, I’ll offer another warning. Even if it’s legal to anchor, locals have a way of cleaning things up. Once you’ve left the boat, for even a day, a quick call to say they see your boat dragging and it’s immediately a salvage. No way to prove you weren’t. Ironically, the crappier the boat, the less likely the local tow company will come remove it on their dime, hoping to legally recover their charges from you, as it may appear you’ll never be able to pay. Nevertheless, the moral of the story is that locals can figure out how to get rid of you, if you pick the wrong anchorage.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

In my opinion, at this point, you might be much better off biting the bullet and taking a professional mooring rather than trying to anchor, something you are not apparently very experienced at, which would include judging whether what you have for ground tackle is sufficient and suitable for the area you intend to anchor.
Good ground tackle is one of the more expensive things one needs to spend money on, and until you understand anchoring and what tackle you should buy, it might be best to wait a few months. Like buying a BC from the SCUBA instructor's store before you've ever been diving.
There are a lot of opinions about anchors and anchoring, so you could benefit from searching the site.
Also, remember, hurricane season started today and whether it be an anchor or a mooring, there's a lot more to keeping your boat safe in a storm than just what's under the water. Another search; chafe gear. 
How far you are from your boat is also a big factor. Those that are minutes away can easily go down to the boat whenever they wish, whereas those three hours away will get to their boat a limited number of times a year, and the logistics of getting to the boat to prep for a storm become much more difficult.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Nevertheless, the moral of the story is that locals can figure out how to get rid of you, if you pick the wrong anchorage.


The City of Essex, Conn promised me a free mooring for the season as part of the incentive for me to go there and operate the Mary E (a 1906 fishing schooner converted to a day tour boat) for the Connecticut River Museum. Upon arrival and after a question from the harbormaster, I was informed that Essex Conn did not allow boats over 50 feet on their moorings. OK, so I should have said she was a Gulfstar 50, my bad. I was definitely pissed and disappointed, but we had no written contract. Off I go to anchor. I found a nice spot where most of the current missed me and had good holding. Cool.
After a week, alongside comes the Essex Conn harbormaster telling me I must move the boat every 7 days. I wasn't even on the Essex side of the river. Oh, bother and my windlass was down.
I mean these folks had invited me here, fully aware that I lived aboard a sailboat and for some reason, they were trying to drive me into one of the two local marinas. I wasn't getting hassled when I was in the car or having a bite in a restaurant, etc, only on the boat. I moved to where I should not be any problem to them; they could hardly see the boat from the town waterfront! 
And again, my least favorite harbormaster with his speel. I'd had enough and told him to go away as I went below to call the ACLU telling him he could talk to my attorney.
After a couple of weeks of research by myself and a really nice person at the ACLU, we found a law that basically made every Essex City mooring illegal. Every single one!
The meeting with the harbormaster and some city official was my last communication with the City of Essex Conn or anyone officially connected to it and I spent a further 3 or 4 months there. Sometimes the local municipality has not the authority to regulate the yachts and just gets by on bold and impudent behavior.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bobby-
"The first question I have is what exactly is defined as an anchorage? "
Get a NOAA nautical chart of the area. You can get paper or download an electronic version for free. If the area is not a designated anchorage on the government charts, IT IS NOT AN ANCHORAGE.
You will see "General Anchorage" and "Special Anchorage" and if you get the Coast Pilots (also free online) the difference is that anyone can drop anchor in one, subject to maintaining an anchor watch and anchor light, while there's always someone in charge of the Special Anchorage, which is often a municipally controlled mooring field under the control of a "harbormaster". And often at a charge.

If the area is not a designated anchorage on a NOAA chart, it is not an anchorage. Similarly, if it is not a designated channel on a NOAA chart, it is not a "channel".

You might want to see if you can find a USPS (US Power Squadron) or USCG Auxiliary Safe Boating course before you get started, they'll cover a lot you should know. And they'll be able to hook you up with local resources.
Also ask the USCG Aux to give you a free safety inspection. They'll tell you if the boat has all of the required safety equipment, and if not, what you need. If you pass inspection you get a sticker that tells watercops "go bother someone else please" and if you fail the inspection? All you get is a piece of paper that says "You need this stuff."
Nothing to lose.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> If the area is not a designated anchorage on a NOAA chart, it is not an anchorage. Similarly, if it is not a designated channel on a NOAA chart, it is not a "channel".


Can't speak for the rest of the world, but in Connecticut, where Harbor Commissions have been established, there can be designated Transient Anchorages, such as we have in Mystic. There are limits on how long you can stay-hence the term, "transient"-and the enforcement would be by a State-appointed Harbormaster. In Mystic, there are no fees, but there can be fines for abusing the rules.

We also have a side channel, which has a defined width and controlled, dredged depth. This is not a federal channel. In addition, we have an undredged, shallow "fairway" marked by State-approved pilings.

Bottom line: if in doubt about anchoring in an area, check with the Town or City in whose waters one hopes to anchor. In our case, there are Harbor Plans (ordinances) on file and accessible through the Town website. (BTW, Mystic spans 2 towns. I am speaking about part of Mystic in the Town of Stonington. But, note that the harbor plans may not include up-to-date (The Mystic-Stonington Harbor Plan is 24 years old and in the process of revision) information on federal or state channels, or Town fairways, so it would be appropriate to check with the Harbormaster.)


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Staying on the Chessie for at least the summer is excellent advice. Getting an engine should be first on your To-Do list. And learn the difference between a mooring and an anchor. At this point you know so little you don't know what you don't know.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

So somewhat not relevant to the current discussion but I have a quick question. I was randomly looking at real estate in my area (Pennsauken NJ). A listing for a waterfront campsite in Maryland came up. So this got the wheels turning in my head. I started thinking to myself what if I bought cheap waterfront property in Maryland or Virginia. Relative to where I live the properties are insanely cheap. Anyways the question I have is can a boat be kept at the docks in a waterfront community? Like for example, there is some land for sale in some of these communities for just 500 bucks. Which would get me access to the docks. One of the many communities I looked at explicitly had slips for rent none of the others mentioned anything about it. And even if I can't keep a boat at the docks I can surely have a mooring installed right? Does anyone here have any experience with this?


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

bobbyjones said:


> So somewhat not relevant to the current discussion but I have a quick question. I was randomly looking at real estate in my area (Pennsauken NJ). A listing for a waterfront campsite in Maryland came up. So this got the wheels turning in my head. I started thinking to myself what if I bought cheap waterfront property in Maryland or Virginia. Relative to where I live the properties are insanely cheap. Anyways the question I have is can a boat be kept at the docks in a waterfront community? Like for example, there is some land for sale in some of these communities for just 500 bucks. Which would get me access to the docks. One of the many communities I looked at explicitly had slips for rent none of the others mentioned anything about it. And even if I can't keep a boat at the docks I can surely have a mooring installed right? Does anyone here have any experience with this?


Please tell me where you can find waterfront property (with docks??) in maryland for $500?!

Looked now and found some for $50,000.. I also learned the term "slight water views"  Most that are actually on the water are $150-300k for a lot..


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Scandium said:


> Please tell me where you can find waterfront property (with docks??) in maryland for $500?!
> 
> Looked now and found some for $50,000.. I also learned the term "slight water views"  Most that are actually on the water are $150-300k for a lot..


Well, it is a waterfront community. The docks are for the community. Its kinda like an HOA. You pay a fee every year for access to the boat ramp, docks, clubhouse or whatever. The fee seems to be in the 200 dollar range for most of them. Which isn't that bad if a boat can be left at the docks. Or at the very least a dinghy. But I have no experience with any of this.


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

bobbyjones said:


> Well, it is a waterfront community. The docks are for the community. Its kinda like an HOA. You pay a fee every year for access to the boat ramp, docks, clubhouse or whatever. The fee seems to be in the 200 dollar range for most of them. Which isn't that bad if a boat can be left at the docks. Or at the very least a dinghy. But I have no experience with any of this.


Ok. I have seen some of those around here too, tough none of them had docks, just a beach or similar. One had moorings I think. That would be very cheap for a dock.. If it's in an attractive area I would imagine there's a wait list, so do check. There's a club with cheap moorings around here, but waitlist is years.. I was offered a slip at a run down marina (near balt) for $1200 p.a., cheapest I've seen. Compared to the cost of keep an old sailboat afloat that's peanuts (i.e. if you can't afford that maybe boat ownership isn't for you.. )


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

bobbyjones said:


> Well, it is a waterfront community. The docks are for the community. Its kinda like an HOA. You pay a fee every year for access to the boat ramp, docks, clubhouse or whatever. The fee seems to be in the 200 dollar range for most of them. Which isn't that bad if a boat can be left at the docks. Or at the very least a dinghy. But I have no experience with any of this.


If you have $500 burning a hole in your pocket, join a sailing club and take some lessons. You should know how to sail and what it takes financially to operate a boat before you consider owning one. If you are considering anchoring out permanently, you might spend a few $100 on just new anchor and rode to do it safely. Even then anchoring out permanently is a danger to you, the other boats and your liability.

I still want to see where you can get a $500 oceanfront property. Even $150k-300k seems too cheap.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Scandium said:


> Ok. I have seen some of those around here too, tough none of them had docks, just a beach or similar. One had moorings I think. That would be very cheap for a dock.. If it's in an attractive area I would imagine there's a wait list, so do check. There's a club with cheap moorings around here, but waitlist is years.. I was offered a slip at a run down marina (near balt) for $1200 p.a., cheapest I've seen. Compared to the cost of keep an old sailboat afloat that's peanuts (i.e. if you can't afford that maybe boat ownership isn't for you.. )


Yeah, I saw some of those as well where they are selling a slip directly. I was actually quite surprised. What does the owner of a marina get for selling a slip? I would think renting it out would generate more revenue even if it goes unrented most of the time. And for the lots, they are selling them on the market I believe. I am guessing the reason they haven't sold yet is that no one wants to build a home. I am also guessing that when you buy the lot you must build a house within a certain time frame. But either way, they can't deny access to the docks once the lot is purchased. Most of them have access to the docks in the deed.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

jephotog said:


> If you have $500 burning a hole in your pocket, join a sailing club and take some lessons. You should know how to sail and what it takes financially to operate a boat before you consider owning one. If you are considering anchoring out permanently, you might spend a few $100 on just new anchor and rode to do it safely. Even then anchoring out permanently is a danger to you, the other boats and your liability.
> 
> I still want to see where you can get a $500 oceanfront property. Even $150k-300k seems too cheap.


It is not oceanfront for the individual lot. It is part of a waterfront community. Like this one for example. That one isn't in the Chesapeake though. I actually only looked up the properties because I am currently bartering my services as a web developer for goods as a way to market myself. I was going to offer them to property owners who are selling. Ended up noticing how cheap the properties are instead. In the Chesapeake, the lots start at 5 grand it looks like. Which compared to NJ is a steal lol.

Edit: Yes I plan to take a course to get my boating license.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

bobbyjones said:


> I actually only looked up the properties because I am currently bartering my services as a web developer for goods as a way to market myself.


Now here's a starting point: start calling up marinas with terrible websites, and offer to build (and maintain!) them something really good in return for a place to park your boat.

Marinas may have a few odd spots that they can't rent out because they are in funny locations or don't have amenities, or may be able to find you an available spot if you're willing to move around as owners are away.

You can also search for homeowners with docks willing to rent, again won't have amenities but may be cheap.


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

bobbyjones said:


> It is not oceanfront for the individual lot. It is part of a waterfront community. Like this one for example. That one isn't in the Chesapeake though. I actually only looked up the properties because I am currently bartering my services as a web developer for goods as a way to market myself. I was going to offer them to property owners who are selling. Ended up noticing how cheap the properties are instead. In the Chesapeake, the lots start at 5 grand it looks like. Which compared to NJ is a steal lol.
> 
> Edit: Yes I plan to take a course to get my boating license.


HOA dues aren't always listed on zillow. I found a property I believe is in the same hoa, showing annual dues of $1200. Sounds about right. Plus any slip fees. At that point you might as well get a no-frills/mom&pop marina somewhere for same price, and not have to own/tax on a property..

Again, don't want to sound snobby, but if $1200/year is a lot to you I would not buy a boat. Mine was in very good shape, and only 23 ft, but I've spent over $1500 so far on just some basic supplies (cleaners/bottom, fixing minor things, electrical/battery gear, lines, engine supplies, safety). Stick to kayaks, they're great fun and basically free compared to sailboats..


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

zedboy said:


> Now here's a starting point: start calling up marinas with terrible websites...


There's a whole bunch of those!


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I think your issue in trailer parks and back water marinas with that boat is going to be draft. A lot of cheap docks are likely going to be shallow and weedy.

Small cheap sailboats are not hard to come by. Maybe consider something with a swing keel to open up your docking and options.

Around here you can get a serviceable 21-22 ft swing keel boat for $1000-2000. Not pretty, but serviceable. And, if you decide you want to get rid of it, it's a lot easier to sell a boat on a trailer in my experience.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Scandium said:


> HOA dues aren't always listed on zillow. I found a property I believe is in the same hoa, showing annual dues of $1200. Sounds about right. Plus any slip fees. At that point you might as well get a no-frills/mom&pop marina somewhere for same price, and not have to own/tax on a property..
> 
> Again, don't want to sound snobby, but if $1200/year is a lot to you I would not buy a boat. Mine was in very good shape, and only 23 ft, but I've spent over $1500 so far on just some basic supplies (cleaners/bottom, fixing minor things, electrical/battery gear, lines, engine supplies, safety). Stick to kayaks, they're great fun and basically free compared to sailboats..


Oh I am definitely fine with 1200 a year. I was just noting the property prices and curious if a boat can be kept at those docks.


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

Arcb said:


> I think your issue in trailer parks and back water marinas with that boat is going to be draft. A lot of cheap docks are likely going to be shallow and weedy.
> 
> Small cheap sailboats are not hard to come by. Maybe consider something with a swing keel to open up your docking and options.
> 
> Around here you can get a serviceable 21-22 ft swing keel boat for $1000-2000. Not pretty, but serviceable. And, if you decide you want to get rid of it, it's a lot easier to sell a boat on a trailer in my experience.


Yeah, I noticed those while looking on craigslist. There does not seem to be too many of them on there though.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

bobbyjones said:


> Yeah, I noticed those while looking on craigslist. There does not seem to be too many of them on there though.


Well, you only need one 

I have been keeping my 21 foot trailer sailor in my drive way for the past few years btw if you want a cheap way to keep a boat.

My annual maintenance costs are about $200/year, plus I pay $40/year to the local conservation area for unlimited use of the boat ramp. So, $240/year, and I sail quite a bit.

It has to be the right boat for this to work, as mast stepping can be a pain on some boats.

Dry storage with the mast up is also an attractive option for frugally minded folks with boats on trailers. My local marina charges $200/year for that.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I think your issue in trailer parks and back water marinas with that boat is going to be draft. A lot of cheap docks are likely going to be shallow and weedy.
> 
> Small cheap sailboats are not hard to come by. Maybe consider something with a swing keel to open up your docking and options.


Two very good points (as usual) from Arcb. I got a slip for super-cheap for my first boat because there wasn't much demand for the 3' depth on that dock....

If you were anyhow looking at a boat without a motor,
a) You were anyhow going to spend some money, so you could consider very cheap boats
b) At this size, all the value is in the motor. You'll see other "free" options - even ones possibly worth taking - that just need a good OB.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

There is no shortage of cheap small boats out there:
https://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/d/saint-michaels-islander-21/6874636112.html


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

bobbyjones said:


> If the wind stops I would either anchor or row depending on how I am feeling lol.


WOW row a 25ft'r.......you got yourself one big set of oars and some might strong arms ....you better eat your Spinach Popeye. Take all of the advice that you have been given here and either learn how to sail and manage a boat or get yourself another car to fix up for the summer.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

I bought my boat not knowing anything about boating and not knowing how to sail. The difference is the boat was being bought from close friends of the family and I was taking private sailing lessons, starting on dinghies and moving up to keel boats. I didn't solo sail in the ocean for months. I may have motored for a short trip, but sailing? No way. More questions I have....You have not mentioned what condition the sails or running rigging are in? What do you do if you go to sail and the sheaves are frozen, and you can't raise the main or jib? What if the sails are so bad they rip in a blow? Rudder breaks? Tiller breaks? Its not just about putting up some sails and hoping the wind is friendly...


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## bobbyjones (May 30, 2019)

NewportNewbie said:


> I bought my boat not knowing anything about boating and not knowing how to sail. The difference is the boat was being bought from close friends of the family and I was taking private sailing lessons, starting on dinghies and moving up to keel boats. I didn't solo sail in the ocean for months. I may have motored for a short trip, but sailing? No way. More questions I have....You have not mentioned what condition the sails or running rigging are in? What do you do if you go to sail and the sheaves are frozen, and you can't raise the main or jib? What if the sails are so bad they rip in a blow? Rudder breaks? Tiller breaks? Its not just about putting up some sails and hoping the wind is friendly...


I consider all of that part of the adventure.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

bobbyjones said:


> I consider all of that part of the adventure.


Some of that might be more adventure than most of us are up for. You, or even worse, someone else, could get hurt.

Like people here have said, the wrong old boat will bankrupt you. I'd walk away from the "free" boat & get a dinghy. Something like 14 feet, simple, with a main, jib, and centerboard. Can be trailered even with a small car and costs nothing to store. There are lots of those around for not a lot of money and you'll probably get most of the $$ back when you eventually sell it to buy something bigger. Then sail it. A lot. You'll get comfortable handling the boat, working with the wind, docking it etc. and will be a hell of a lot more prepared when you do move up.


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## bajaking (Jun 6, 2013)

Get a knowledgeable person to assess the boat. If it isn't a total wreck...
Take the boat. Move aboard asap. Plan to stay in the general area until mid July and _don't try to plan beyond that_. Your first boating lesson will be that you can't plan; someday you'll learn to plan like a sailor, but not yet.
Get all your paperwork straightened out, including safe boater certification if needed (get it anyway!). That may end things right there if there are 20 yrs' worth of DMV fees or liens that weren't disclosed. But let's say it's all good.
Get TowBoat/BoatUS tow insurance, a handheld VHF, and good PFD. Wear the latter two at all times. 
Get a GPS/DSC VHF if you can spare the extra $150 it'll cost you. Sit in your boat and learn how to use both.
Get said knowledgeable person to accompany you on your first couple sails out and back to your anchorage/mooring/marina. Enjoy life aboard! You're doing it, man! Get ASA or US Sailing course books. They're simple and instructive.
If you can swing it, get a 4hp long shaft motor.

If by mid-July you're still into this whole adventure, now you can start cruising your way down the Chesapeake. You'll have way more fun and adventure on the Chesapeake than Delaware river. Sell the boat before school, or leave it someplace cheap, which will be easier to find in southern Chesapeake than northern, and certainly than NJ. You can go out and around the Delmarva next summer if you're still into that idea.
If you really gotta get it up to NJ, at least now you'll have some clue about sailing. Don't head south. Instead trade up for a 9.9hp if you can, to help better negotiate the currents and traffic doing the canal route to NJ.

If by late July it's all gone sideways, you'll still have a few weeks to give away the boat to the next adventurous spirit.
Good luck!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bobbyjones said:


> I consider all of that part of the adventure.


I'm glad to see you're still hanging around. Keep asking questions. Adventure is a great spirit.

That said, not everything can be written off to adventure. Your initial thought was to anchor or row, if you lost the wind. This simply isn't allowed in narrow shipping channels and you wouldn't know that. There is a law that says you can not impede these channels.

Coastal water is not the frontier some would like to believe. It has rules that must be obeyed. You need to formally learn them.

This above quote was a reaction to potential failures. Lose a mast, because the standing rigging was suspect, and it could kill you. That's not adventuresome, that's careless. Huge difference. Good luck with the adventure.


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

bajaking said:


> Don't head south.


Why?


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## bajaking (Jun 6, 2013)

OldMan-theSea said:


> Why?


Because if he really wants to get the boat near home in NJ, he'll have an easier, safer, and quicker trip by motoring up the C&D canal rather than going the ocean route. I'm just thinking about his timing, having to be back in school by September. If he's confident he's learned enough to spend a couple weeks cruising south, and then backtracking up to the canal route, then hell yeah, go for out. Gunkhole down one side of the bay and back up the other. Or if he's really mastering things and his boat is well found and he decides he can do the outside route after all, sure, then do that. 
But I suspect his skills and his boat will have a lot of tuning up to do before he gets very far, and suddenly it's time to start thinking about end of summer. That's why I recommend he give himself a halfway milestone and then re-assess his comfort level.


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

Makes sense. I was confusing this thread with the very recent one where the guy couldn't figure out how to get to shore. Everyone told him to go South. Wrong thread.


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## bajaking (Jun 6, 2013)

Hah, yeah, that thread was entertaining and frustrating all at once. Probably good that it was closed! I'm much more optimistic about the OP here, so I'll play along. Although I did think it at first it might have been the same guy making another attempt to get under our skin.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

bobbyjones said:


> I consider all of that part of the adventure.


Read....

Lots of people on "adventures" in boats with ALOT more sailing experience than you in ALOT better boats are no longer breathing because of their "adventures".

One of the first lesson in sailing is not to "go with the flow" but to PLAN for EVERY eventuality so when it hits you, you can survive it. Ever see a tanker hot a sailboat? Its not pretty and no one would want that "adventure". Others have said you will be in shipping channels and its busy...if you lose control in front of a tanker...they won't stop. They won't even try to avoid you.






The people in the sailboat were lucky they lived...oh and the captain of the boat was hit with a $100k fine because he was in the wrong.

Heres on more...headsail is stuck up, and its windy...boat loses steering....here is the result of that adventure.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

bajaking said:


> Hah, yeah, that thread was entertaining and frustrating all at once. Probably good that it was closed! I'm much more optimistic about the OP here, so I'll play along. Although I did think it at first it might have been the same guy making another attempt to get under our skin.


Oh its most definitely fake...lol but I played along as well.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

BobbyJones On second thought. lock yourself in your room with your cell phone and a charger and never come out. It's a Dangerous world out there and you might surely die ! ;-)


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

NewportNewbie said:


> Yacht hit by tanker off Cowes, Isle of Wight - YouTube
> 
> Full Version Including Passenger Rescue - Sailboat Capsized into Redondo Beach Pier in California - YouTube


Aw gee. You're a party pooper, aren't you? You only showed clips in which the folks involved survived. lol


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Lots of people on "adventures" in boats with ALOT more sailing experience than you in ALOT better boats are no longer breathing because of their "adventures". "

ALOT??

When you think of 25,000 dead from one earthquake or hurricane and mudslides in Mexico or Central America or China...or 100,000 dead from slightly larger routine events in the same areas, now that's ALOT.

So if a hundred, or even two hundred, sailors die every year from avoidable situations...that's not even a rounding error. That's not ALOT that's pretty much not even a fleck on the global scale.

Might still be 100 tragedies, sure. But that sadly IS a normal part of everyday life. I'd worry more about the tens of thousands dying every day from dysentery and other very preventable healthcare issues.


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## SeanM26 (Feb 18, 2018)

Anyways, there is no way to plan for every eventuality. This is why there are standardized courses for basic keel boat and bare boat cruising certificates. They teach you skills that you can apply to different situations. The biggest skill is to not freak out when something goes wrong.

In the end, aren't all of our greatest adventures the ones where we put the most on the line?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> ALOT?
> So if a hundred, or even two hundred, sailors die every year from avoidable situations...


How can you possibly equate the loss of life in natural disasters to those that happen in on and around *pleasure* craft? And at what point do you consider any event that happens in a "pleasure" situation to be "unavoidable? If nothing else is considered, just by the fact that one *chose* whatever action that got them into a life-threatening position makes it completely different from those caught in natural disasters.
I'm willing to bet that over 99% of pleasure craft fatalities are caused by just plain old fashioned stupidity, whether it be out on the water, from a lack of maintenance or preparation for whatever they plan to do.
It's like Jim Brown said, "Trimarans don't tip over, *people* tip them over."


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

capta said:


> How can you possibly equate the loss of life in natural disasters to those that happen in on and around *pleasure* craft? And at what point do you consider any event that happens in a "pleasure" situation to be "unavoidable? If nothing else is considered, just by the fact that one *chose* whatever action that got them into a life-threatening position makes it completely different from those caught in natural disasters.
> I'm willing to bet that over 99% of pleasure craft fatalities are caused by just plain old fashioned stupidity, whether it be out on the water, from a lack of maintenance or preparation for whatever they plan to do.
> It's like Jim Brown said, "Trimarans don't tip over, *people* tip them over."


That was a truly silly argument from the outset, and several of the last post attack this ridiculous straw man of "you'd die, never do anything dangerous". Nobody here is saying that. Beside, many (most? a lot?) of plesure craft accidents don't end with fatalities. Many are saved by the coast guard or other boats, some merely have a terrible time, some boats just sink but the crew are ok. That doesn't mean that would be ok.. At least IMO "adventure" and "ignorant and unprepared" are not the same thing.

also; was the person above really saying "don't worry about the state of your boat, many more people die of dysentery"?? :S uuh?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Scandium said:


> That was a truly silly argument from the outset, and several of the last post attack this ridiculous straw man of "you'd die, never do anything dangerous". Nobody here is saying that. Beside, many (most? a lot?) of plesure craft accidents don't end with fatalities. Many are saved by the coast guard or other boats, some merely have a terrible time, some boats just sink but the crew are ok. That doesn't mean that would be ok.. At least IMO "adventure" and "ignorant and unprepared" are not the same thing.
> 
> also; was the person above really saying "don't worry about the state of your boat, many more people die of dysentery"?? :S uuh?


Then I invite you to join next year's mass scramble to summit Everest. It should be quite an adventure.
Being prepared, in control and educated before you need the CG's assistance would seem to be infinitely preferable to setting out on an adventure ignorant, unprepared and out of control, though either is probably a better alternative to never leaving your parents' basement. One just causes a lot of other people bother or at worst, risking their lives.


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## lightning (Apr 8, 2019)

Leaving a boat on an anchor while you’re away for any length of time is irresponsible, as a simple change in wind direction can free up the anchor and send the boat adrift, which in turn can do serious damage to other boats. If you’re aboard but have no engine and minimal sailing skills it’s not much better. If a storm comes up, with too much wind to sail in, and the anchor comes loose, there’s not much you’re going to do to control the boat, and now your life and limb are at risk, too. 

Get some experience sailing on other people’s boats before you take this on, or stick with your kayak.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

lightning said:


> Get some experience sailing on other people's boats before you take this on, or stick with your kayak.


Wow, that's harsh, dude.
Sounds like your boat has been the unfortunate victim many times.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

lightning said:


> Leaving a boat on an anchor while you're away for any length of time is irresponsible, as a simple change in wind direction can free up the anchor and send the boat adrift, which in turn can do serious damage to other boats. If you're aboard but have no engine and minimal sailing skills it's not much better. If a storm comes up, with too much wind to sail in, and the anchor comes loose, there's not much you're going to do to control the boat, and now your life and limb are at risk, too.
> 
> Get some experience sailing on other people's boats before you take this on, or stick with your kayak.


With the bottom conditions in Chesapeake a decent sized Danforth isn't going to pull out. It will essentially be a mooring once the anchor buries itself in that mud, BTDT. The problem with an anchor or mooring is chafe on the rode or pendant. If he takes care to install heavy chafing gear on the line there will be little difference between a mooring and anchoring.

Experience is something you have to do to get it. Sailing with someone else is a good idea but taking that experience out on his own boat is where he'll learn the fastest. Don't mean to just go out and do it with no forethought but read everything he can get his hands on and then go out and put it into practice. The best way to get experience is to get experience by actually sailing the boat. Sailing around the relatively protected waters of the Chesapeake in the summer is a great place to practice.

The videos in the other post are a good learning experience. FWIW, the skipper of the boat in Cowes was a British Navy Officer. Must assume he had some experience so that is not armour against a stupid decision. The other one, don't know what went wrong with the sheet on that jib. If the clew pulled out of the sail, the remedies were limited but they were well offshore initially and having the crew hang onto the clew acting as the sheet should've given them enough control of the sail to get out of danger. In any case, dropping an anchor would've kept them safe though not in comfort till someone could take the boat under tow.

I learned to sail and cruise by doing, almost exclusively on my own. Did subscribe to every sailing magazine I could find and read many books. The real learning came from getting out there and doing it. Wouldn't want him to jump on the boat and take it outside to the anchorage he proposes near his home but he's got a lot of time to gain experience. Navigation and knowing where you are used to be the most difficult part of voyaging under sail. Fortunately, GPS takes that load off a new sailor.

If he does get the boat, he really needs to find out if he can anchor it out either where it's at or where he wants to put it. That could be the real deal killer. With ever more anchorages being restricted, he may not be able to leave the boat on its hook for extended time.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

bobbyjones said:


> I was actually contemplating leaving it in the Chesapeake. It is just a bit of a longer drive for something I want to use extensively. I will be using a lightweight kayak to go from the boat to shore. It is something that is easy to carry. The location I was asking about is walking distance to my home. And for marinas, I think most do not have any open spots. The ones I checked didn't have open spots at least. And as for sailing up the river. I have actually been doing research on how to accomplish that. Common sense tells me that the wind would go the same direction as the current in a river. Which from my research would suggest that I would have to do some tacking and such to sail upriver. I was assuming that the Delaware River was wide enough for such a thing. But apparently, my common sense is no good. It is very well possible for the wind to blow a direction that doesn't follow the current. Which would make the trip much easier if my research is correct. If the wind stops I would either anchor or row depending on how I am feeling lol.


Disclaimer, I am not from the area and have never sailed in the area.

But, I can google tide charts  It seems to me there are pretty good tides in the Delaware river. One strategy to sail up river in a tidal zone without an engine, is to wait for the flood tide, ride the favourable tide until it changes, then anchor and wait another 6 hours. This should give you nearly 12 hours a day of favourable current.

I believe this is how pretty much every one sailed before folks got reliant on their engines in tidal areas.

Edit: Here is an article.

http://sailingmagazine.net/article-1752-cruising-without-an-engine.html


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## ImASonOfaSailor (Jun 26, 2007)

Guys/Gals, I am thinking this guy is a scam, he can't be real! Who in the right mind would think this way to even try this?


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## Aswayze (Apr 5, 2015)

I would do that at his age. 

And I would have succeeded at it.

And I would have had a great time. 

Many of us would have.

Just because we are wiser and more cautious now does not mean that nobody should do the same stupid stuff our elders told us not to do.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

Aswayze said:


> I would do that at his age.
> 
> And I would have succeeded at it.
> 
> ...


Really??? So when i was his age. My buddy went mountain climbing. Took the wrong risk and he died. How many kids die every year doing stupid stuff behind the wheel of a car? Just because YOU did stupid stuff and lived doesnt mean every lid should do stupid and life threatening stuff. Especially when his stupidity could injure or kill others.

All i am saying is have some respect for the danger. He will have a blast and a great adventure.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I missed something, though I admit I probably haven't read every post. What's the stupid risk hes taking that is going to get him killed? I thought he just wanted to sail his boat up the Bay?

Leavening a boat unattended at anchor definitely wouldn't be something I would do. But I am not sure it's especially dangerous so much as just a good way to lose your boat.


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## SeanM26 (Feb 18, 2018)

A young kid wants to get a sailboat and go on am adventure. Some people think he should be careful and get a little guidance before jumping in with both feet. Others seem to think he is trying to take a nuclear powered submarine for a joyride and he is going to cause a mass casualty event.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

A kid who has never sailed a boat before. Said he wants to take a boat that was a free scrap boat with no motor and no clue on the condition of the hull, mast etc and take it into busy, narrow and high current shipping corridors while he learns. Thats the adventure. He said that losing the rudder, mast, and all control of the boat is just “part of the adventure”. Also said that if things get too bad he would just “row” a 25 ft sailboat. I guess i am being an alarmist by saying thats unsafe and potentially fatal if he loses control in front of a tanker or something like that. Others say go for it he is a kid they do stupid things.


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## SeanM26 (Feb 18, 2018)

NewportNewbie said:


> A kid who has never sailed a boat before. Said he wants to take a boat that was a free scrap boat with no motor and no clue on the condition of the hull, mast etc and take it into busy, narrow and high current shipping corridors while he learns. Thats the adventure. He said that losing the rudder, mast, and all control of the boat is just "part of the adventure". Also said that if things get too bad he would just "row" a 25 ft sailboat. I guess i am being an alarmist by saying thats unsafe and potentially fatal if he loses control in front of a tanker or something like that. Others say go for it he is a kid they do stupid things.


If you read all the responses you will see that no one said, "go for it!" Without giving some sage advice.


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## RL24er (Jul 12, 2013)

Does the boat have a working head? Please don't plan on using a five gallon bucket and polluting the river.

Do you plan on hauling water and food out to your boat in a kayak? Kayaks generally do not make good barges.

Do you have a night anchor light on the masthead as required by law? Does it come on automatically at dusk and go off at dawn? If not are you going to leave it on day and night? If so, how will you keep the battery charged? Not having an anchored boat in full compliance with the law is an open invitation to law enforcement to start checking out your boat! 

Since you mention working on the bottom of the boat, why not take it directly to a DIY marina or dock and get the work done first? It is amazing how much difference a clean hull can make when trying to move a boat through water.

Do you know the meaning of the word B O A T? Are you ready to "Break Out Another Thousand"? If not, you may wish to advertise this boat for free if you already have taken it on, and wait till you can learn on a boat that comes complete with power, sails, lines and equipment--even if it is someone else's boat!


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

NewportNewbie said:


> A kid who has never sailed a boat before. Said he wants to take a boat that was a free scrap boat with no motor and no clue on the condition of the hull, mast etc and take it into busy, narrow and high current shipping corridors while he learns. Thats the adventure. He said that losing the rudder, mast, and all control of the boat is just "part of the adventure". Also said that if things get too bad he would just "row" a 25 ft sailboat. I guess i am being an alarmist by saying thats unsafe and potentially fatal if he loses control in front of a tanker or something like that. Others say go for it he is a kid they do stupid things.


Oh, I see, yes, I agree. Some kind of rig inspection and shake down sail is in order. I do a shake down every year.

The engine bit... it is a sailboat and a fairly handy one at that.

Bigger than I would want to row, maybe a sculling oar?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Arcb said:


> Disclaimer, I am not from the area and have never sailed in the area.
> 
> But, I can google tide charts  It seems to me there are pretty good tides in the Delaware river. One strategy to sail up river in a tidal zone without an engine, is to wait for the flood tide, ride the favourable tide until it changes, then anchor and wait another 6 hours. This should give you nearly 12 hours a day of favourable current.
> 
> ...


Exactly how the British did when they brought their cumbersome wooden boats up the Delaware

BTW it isn't the tides that you play....its the current.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

roverhi said:


> With the bottom conditions in Chesapeake a decent sized Danforth isn't going to pull out. It will essentially be a mooring once the anchor buries itself in that mud, BTDT. The problem with an anchor or mooring is chafe on the rode or pendant. If he takes care to install heavy chafing gear on the line there will be little difference between a mooring and anchoring.
> 
> Experience is something you have to do to get it. Sailing with someone else is a good idea but taking that experience out on his own boat is where he'll learn the fastest. Don't mean to just go out and do it with no forethought but read everything he can get his hands on and then go out and put it into practice. The best way to get experience is to get experience by actually sailing the boat. Sailing around the relatively protected waters of the Chesapeake in the summer is a great place to practice.
> 
> ...


Danforths drag. They are no where near the best Chesapeake anchor , and the best anchor is no where near a substitute for a properly placed mooring.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

For the first time in 15 years, I've decided to list my boat for sale. It's a mid 80's Sabre, consistently maintained and in great shape. Based on what I've seen, it could be years before it sells, so I figured I'd list it now. 

In any event, this thread got me to thinking that, instead of telling these new sailors, about all the problems ( including death and mayhem) that they'll face, or cause; and, all the expenses they'll incur, maybe, we should be encouraging them to get involved. 

BobbyJones, You should definitely let people know where this boat is located on the Chesapeake. At least the general vicinity, and see if someone local will look her over for you. There's a lot of Chesapeake Sailors on this site, who might be willing to help get you started.

As far as learning how to sail, You're probably an hour or so away from me, If you want to learn how to sail, anchor, read a chart, manage bridges and radio communications etc. and have the summer off, you're welcome to drive an hour north and sail Raritan Bay, Sandy Hook Bay and New York Harbor with me. If you're a quick learner, we'll even get you out in the Ocean. 

I also liked the suggestion of going down to your local yacht club on race night and see if you can hitch a ride. This happens all the time.


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

NewportNewbie said:


> A kid who has never sailed a boat before. Said he wants to take a boat that was a free scrap boat with no motor and no clue on the condition of the hull, mast etc and take it into busy, narrow and high current shipping corridors while he learns. Thats the adventure.


Not just that, he was thinking of going to NJ on the outside.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

OldMan-theSea said:


> Not just that, he was thinking of going to NJ on the outside.


I though he was going up the Chesapeake and through the C&D canal?

Diesnt matter anyway, as soon as anyone is past that bridge thing outside Norfolk they would realises they have over estimated the conditions and turn back.

The op doesnt seem to be a nut.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bobbyjones said:


> .... I do not know how to sail
> 
> The boat is in an anchorage in the Chesapeake Bay. I want to sail it around to and up the Delaware River to the Philadelphia area where I reside. ....


"Sail it around" implied going outside, but you can get to the Delaware River either way.

I would not say the OP is a nut. However, (s)he documentably doesn't know what (s)he doesn't know. I would not rely on turning around in time to save one's bacon.

This adventure can be done. But not yet. Needs some basics first. We had a 16 year old kid here once, which was great, but most didn't realize who they were encouraging.

Have we established returning to college, high school or other?


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

"To know what you know, and know what you don't know, is characteristic of one who knows." Confucius

"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that ain't so!" An older (now late) surgeon I knew.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Deja vu all over again...

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=51684&share_fid=42282&share_type=t

thread - "Well my day really sucked."

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I though he was going up the Chesapeake and through the C&D canal?
> 
> Diesnt matter anyway, as soon as anyone is past that bridge thing outside Norfolk they would realises they have over estimated the conditions and turn back.
> 
> The op doesnt seem to be a nut.


OP has no engine, and (at first) wasn't interested in getting one so couldn't go through the C&D. Would have to go around delmarva. And with no engine I doubt would be able to get in anywhere so all non-stop. Couple overnight sails on a free boat, off the Atlantic coast? Adventure indeed..


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Scandium said:


> OP has no engine, and (at first) wasn't interested in getting one so couldn't go through the C&D. Would have to go around delmarva. And with no engine I doubt would be able to get in anywhere so all non-stop. Couple overnight sails on a free boat, off the Atlantic coast? Adventure indeed..


One would hire an outboard for a few days and go through the canal.

The last time I was there coming into the Chesepeak to Norfolk from New York I think I cut the corner too close and got into some shallow water with a bottom quite bumpy/undulating. An undulating seabed means strong currents and shifting sea beds. Quite nervy for a moment or 2.
I thought it was just Americans tryin to kill foreigners


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> One would hire an outboard for a few days and go through the canal.
> 
> The last time I was there coming into the Chesepeak to Norfolk from New York I think I cut the corner too close and got into some shallow water with a bottom quite bumpy/undulating. An undulating seabed means strong currents and shifting sea beds. Quite nervy for a moment or 2.
> I thought it was just Americans tryin to kill foreigners


Mark the issue is not just the Canal (18 mikes long 3 knot current) but also the Delaware from Cape May....52 my h a 3-4 knot current. No p,ace to anchor. That route is a very inhospitable one on a regular day. That for a knowledgeable sailor.

The rented outboard is only one of the headwinds the OP will face. Remember he believes currents are caused by wind.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Remember he believes currents are caused by wind.


Everyone know currents are caused by Global Warming!

.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Everyone know currents are caused by Global Warming!
> 
> .


I thought Trump farts and tweets fixed that


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"One would hire an outboard for a few days "
One can do that here in America?! Outboard shops will do rentals?


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Sailors that travel the North Channel of Georgian Bay are well aware of the currents at the town aptly named Little Current. When the wind blows from the west for a lengthy period of time the water does indeed flow east. When the wind eases, the water flows back to the west.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

paulinnanaimo said:


> Sailors that travel the North Channel of Georgian Bay are well aware of the currents at the town aptly named Little Current. When the wind blows from the west for a lengthy period of time the water does indeed flow east. When the wind eases, the water flows back to the west.


Is that called a sieche effect?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

No reply from the OP in a week. Troll or just rethinking things?


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Maybe he got a good deal on a beat up RV with no engine and went that route instead.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Maybe he finally got a look at his 'Free boat.'


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

PhilCarlson said:


> Maybe he finally got a look at his 'Free boat.'


He's out learning how to anchor in a wind created current


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Y'all despicably cruel.

He's setting up a Go Fund Me page so you can pay for his lifestyle.


:grin


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## DinghyRace (May 31, 2019)

JimsCAL said:


> No reply from the OP in a week. Troll or just rethinking things?


... or hospitalized?


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