# S/V Heaven heading North



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I have another delivery with owners that are okay with some sharing.

I'm bringing Lagoon 42 _Heaven_ from St Thomas (yes I know I was just there) to Annapolis (yes I know). I'm leaving in about a week and a half. The trip should be about 8 days, weather permitting.

First I still have crew space - interviews continue - so if you want sea time with a reprobate like me this is your chance. Crew interviews continue and I'll make final decisions by close of business tomorrow, Friday. I have one confirmed, ten candidates, and two more slots. Judgment is more important than experience. I don't put much stock in paper certifications.

I don't expect long-range communications on this trip so I'll keep a log during the trip and post on arrival. The tracker will be working again.

This time I'll focus on preparations - all the planning, provisioning, weather, and other logistics.

Questions are welcome. I have a ton to do catching up from _Magic_, getting ready for _Heaven_, and keeping my other business interests afloat. Accordingly please don't expect instantaneous responses. I'll do what I can when I can.

For the next week what you will be seeing is the management part of passagemaking.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Sure wish this screwed up on codger could make the trip, but still having some nasty health issues.

Be safe my friend,

Gary


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

I'd throw my name in the hat to join you, but no way I'll be able to get time off work.

Plus, my sailing experience is... limited. 

Safe Travels!


Another thing I was thinking of... was the HF gear on the last trip a part of the boat or yours?

I have some equipment that's otherwise being unused if you wanted to consider borrowing for the trip.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Plus, my sailing experience is... limited.


I'm actually okay with that. My priority with crew is judgment. I always try to make room for one inexperienced person on my trips. Where else do I get future crew from?



Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Another thing I was thinking of... was the HF gear on the last trip a part of the boat or yours?


The Icom M710RT was on the boat. I have a shortwave receiver I carry when there is no long range comms on the boat. I appreciate your offer. Even a small transmitter means an antenna tuner. I'd have to dig my Pactor modem out of the depths of my boat and build cables. I just don't see all that happening in time. My baggage is already looking pretty substantial. *grin*

If I'd known I was going to turn around and head back to STT I would have left a bunch of stuff with friends.

Y'all will just have to watch the Spot track and speculate about why I turned left, or right, or did the hokey-pokey.

I crack myself up.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

So here is what has happened so far.

I got an expression of interest to which I responded with a proposal. My proposals are pretty detailed. I don't know any skippers who put as much work into a bid as I do. I use some software (Visual Passage Planner) that uses pilot chart data to support routing. It's pretty good. I look at alternatives and do manual updates from Jimmy Cornell's World Ocean Atlas and from the Technische Hogeschule Delft ocean current forecasts. I talk about all costs including provisioning and put an estimate together.

In this case I was not low bidder. The owner's pushed back on price but I held the line. I think it was the page of plans I sent for the other skipper to make sure he considered that made them decide to sign with me.

A message goes out to my crew list (about 600 I think) and to Offshore Passage Opportunities and in this case to SailNet. Email starts rolling in. About 2/3 are people saying "I really want to go but I can't." *sigh* Please don't send me those. I sift through the rest and pick the most promising for telephone interviews. There are only a couple of people who always get a berth with no interview. They know who they are (Chip and Jon).

My priorities are good judgment, some basic skills and experience, and attitude. That's why there are phone calls. I can't assess judgment and attitude from a piece of paper.

I've been on the phone most of the last couple of days. Have I mentioned how much I really dislike phones? I really don't like phones. Ah well.

I have a couple more interviews today and will make my final decisions and notifications before I go to bed tonight.

Tomorrow I start working on flights and schedules and the details of provisioning.

I have lots of provisioning lists already but crew likes, dislikes, and allergies are taken into consideration. I don't cater to boutique concerns (if you're gluten-free you better have a doctor's diagnosis of Celiac), and there is no room on a boat at sea for someone who thinks they can bring their own food and take care of themselves (it happens). The latter is too disruptive and takes too much space and the former just irritates me.

My provisioning file isn't pretty - it's working papers - but here it is: http://auspiciousworks.com/provisioning.pdf

The first page is notes and recipes that aren't yet in my go file or in my head. Each page after is based on number of people and planned trip duration. The lists include extra food for delays and the occasional voracious crew. Snacks. Lots of snacks.

I frequently cook ahead either at home, on my boat, or on the delivery boat and either can (pasta sauce and soup) or vacuum seal and freeze (lasagna and casseroles). A lot depends on whether I drive to a boat or fly.

Not all the meals are listed - the list is just a reminder nudge for me. The basis for the list is a meal plan that turns into a shopping list. After that the meal plan is just guidance, not rules. I adjust based on the crew, the conditions, and what I feel like making and eating myself. I already have a lasagna made. Next Tuesday is probably cooking day to make pasta sauce and a stew for canning.

I sold some of my bits and bobs to the owners of the last delivery so replacing those is underway. I need to pull out my little shortwave radio and antenna for weather fax on this trip and test everything. I'm low on lithium batteries for my Spot so I have an order out for those. I'll post the Spot link again before we go.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Clearly I'll have to wait for the 4 heads, 6 day trip. That seems to be the only one with beer on the drink list!


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

SVAuspicious said:


> I'm actually okay with that. My priority with crew is judgment. I always try to make room for one inexperienced person on my trips. Where else do I get future crew from?
> 
> The Icom M710RT was on the boat. I have a shortwave receiver I carry when there is no long range comms on the boat. I appreciate your offer. Even a small transmitter means an antenna tuner. I'd have to dig my Pactor modem out of the depths of my boat and build cables. I just don't see all that happening in time. My baggage is already looking pretty substantial. *grin*
> 
> ...


No problem.

I have an IC-706G, 718, SCS modem (w/cables:grin), and other items sitting in a pelican case at the house. I pull out and try using/testing once in a while until I can figure a way I can use more often, like install in truck or boat.

Safe Travels!


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> I can't assess judgment and attitude from a piece of paper.


I would be curious how you go about assessing judgement. Do you ask particular passage making questions, or just try to get a feel for what their judgement might be?


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Barquito said:


> I would be curious how you go about assessing judgement. Do you ask particular passage making questions, or just try to get a feel for what their judgement might be?


I'm curious too, I want to figure out how to fake good judgement.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Barquito said:


> I would be curious how you go about assessing judgement. Do you ask particular passage making questions, or just try to get a feel for what their judgement might be?


That's a very good question.

It's too easy for generic passage-making questions to drive answers towards skills and the verbal analogue of 'cut and paste' which you may note is a peeve of mine. *grin*

I tell people at the beginning of the phone call that the purpose of our discussion is to get to know each other, that the interview goes both ways, and that I'm focused on judgment and attitude. I go through the applicants resume and pick some element and ask them to tell me a story about it. Then I tell them a story. We ask each other questions.

I tell people what my priorities are. I can tell who understands and who doesn't and that makes a difference in my assessment. I still make mistakes, but fewer since I stopped worrying about specific skills and experience.

There are some deliveries where skill and experience ARE critical. When I run a motor yacht down the ICW straight through (no stops for anything but fuel) I have to have two other watchstanders who can run at night. I'm always on the lookout for people with that potential but they have to sail with me in more normal conditions, we have to get to know each other, I need to have a delivery where they can bridge watches and shadow two of us, before I'll even consider someone new as a nighttime watchstander on the ICW. I still don't sleep well. It's easier with a pilot berth in or behind the bridge.

Generally speaking I can teach people the skills. I can't teach judgment.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

On the run up to a delivery, once the crew is established, I send an email to everyone, including the owners, about a topic of the day. From four days out that email is dominated by weather. Before that I address a topic each day that comes up underway. Light discipline. Consideration. Cleanliness. Lots of things. Addressing procedures early means we can focus on the boat when we are all aboard. After all, I still haven't seen the boat yet. *grin*


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dave, regarding weather, someone down in the Caribbean once told me that winter swells down there can get pretty strong based on storm activity in the North Atlantic. He said it takes about 3 weeks for the swells to arrive from a New England winter storm. If course, you know what's going on up there right now (and last Thursday), and we'll be departing from Granada for a week of sailing exactly 3 weeks from today. So this is more than a curiosity to me, and may also affect you on your trip north. So I'd be interested in hearing your comments on this.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

https://www.facebook.com/mikesweath...88134562366/10154857660737367/?type=3&theater


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> Dave, regarding weather, someone down in the Caribbean once told me that winter swells down there can get pretty strong based on storm activity in the North Atlantic. He said it takes about 3 weeks for the swells to arrive from a New England winter storm. If course, you know what's going on up there right now (and last Thursday), and we'll be departing from Granada for a week of sailing exactly 3 weeks from today. So this is more than a curiosity to me, and may also affect you on your trip north. So I'd be interested in hearing your comments on this.


Seriously

I think you may be overthinking, besides will seas 5-10 have you not go or prepare differently. Easy does it. 3 weeks out and thousands of mikes.

I am sure on a long open passage like Dave is making he will look at his weather very seriously, but won't stop for a storm in the Gulf of Maine or in Massachuettes. He probably will be more concerned with front passages and local gribs 3-5 days in advance.

In Grenada , down off the Coast of Venezuela . You will be doing line of sight sailing and can get in the lee off the islands you can see if it gets to rough for you easily.

Here is one of the unsophisticated sites I use to keep a watch on the swell heights and intervals. Course these are open ocean readings in most cases. Individual swells will increase as the water shallows around the islands and the undersea geography affects it.

Central Caribbean Wave Buoys & Weather Stations

We are going to be there for 10 days from St Lucia to Grenada. I expect seas at least from 5-10 . You will have a captain onboard so I assume that he won't be putting you in danger. I also suggest taking some motion sickness medicine. Anyone can get seasick.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

TakeFive said:


> Dave, regarding weather, someone down in the Caribbean once told me that winter swells down there can get pretty strong based on storm activity in the North Atlantic.


You are correct that ocean swells can be driven by weather hundreds and even thousands of miles away. In really deep water the period is long and you just ride the elevator (on most boats - really full sections forward can be an issue albeit more from waves than swell).

I'll be way off soundings just a few hours after passing through the Middle Passage.

In your case you have two issues. First is the differences in depth (generally all shallower than in the deep ocean) over short distances. You'll see swells that stack up into waves. In addition both swells and waves will wrap around islands and result in interference patterns on the leeward side. You'll have to choose wind protection and confused seas or higher winds and more stable swells while sailing.

If you anchor in the lee (as opposed to a real bay or harbor) things can get bumpy. It always starts over night. Always. *sigh*

There is always the difference between a delivery and a cruise/charter. On an island-hopping cruise I watch the forecasts and the sea buoys (where they exist) and listen to the cruisers' nets which often have offshore observations. I certainly report in when I can on my way in, although I usually arrive at 3a so I'm asleep during the morning net. *grin* I try to anchor in close to avoid the interference patterns and to windward of protection so we get more ventilation.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Someday I'm going to have to gather up all the email I send before a trip and write a book. It will have to wait until after the book I'm already working on. Ah well. What is life without projects? Of course it isn't really a project unless blood is shed, and how do you do that when you write on a computer?

I do write all these missives, to you and to my crew, on the fly. Someday I will tell SailNet how I learned to type. *grin* That won't be today.

So every day there is a rambling email (y'all know what to expect from me) with one principal subject and other odds and ends. About four days out (this Thursday in this case) the focus is on weather so I try to get a lot of other prep taken care of beforehand.

I received a lovely email from one of my crew yesterday who has done a lot of delivery work who said she hasn't gotten so much helpful information from any skipper ever. Add that to @Donna_F saying that sailing with me was a master class in cruising and my head has gotten pretty big. Someone please find a pin. This has to be bad luck. I'll probably run into a buoy or something. Or a continent.

My energy is focused on logistics now - addresses, phone numbers, getting ready to pack, cheat sheets, chartlets, phone calls to friends at each end, confirmations from CBP that procedures haven't changed (Norfolk primary with Beaufort and Charleston backups), TowboatUS for updates on the US end, rental cars, parking for rental cars, updates on prices for provisions, and all kinds of other details.

I once did three long deliveries back-to-back. My head almost exploded getting everything prepared for all of them. There is a lot more work than just walking onto a boat and sailing off into the sunset.

One of my personal rules is to never ever buy airline tickets on the other side of a boat transit. Fully refundable tickets cost too much and there there are too many things that can go wrong to buy a nonrefundable ticket. Not relevant on this delivery (Janet will come get me) but for those of you who might want to crew on delivery for me or anyone else in my opinion if you can't see the dock at your destination it is too early to book a flight.

To save you looking it up in another thread the link to my Spot II tracker is here. At the moment it points to my basement door. If you show up I will put you to work. I have a 'honey-do' list to whittle down before I leave and I could use all the slaves ... er, help ... I can get. I have tools. I'm short on hands.

I would be remiss if I did not thank Janet for all her help. Even though she thinks I'm nuts for loving to sail offshore she supports me. Delivery work is not a big money maker. It's a good thing she loves me. It will be a really good thing on Sunday morning when she gets up at 3am to drive me to the airport.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Not a lot exciting going on. Lots of logistics. Crew have airline tickets (except one is on delivery to the VI). Planning for things like parking rental cars, parking personal cars for rides to airports, and such. Shopping lists are about done (I have templates but crew preferences always get taken into account).

I'm testing everything in my go-kit and found some split and leaking batteries so cleaning up after that is on the agenda for today. All the stuff I needed to replace is back in stock and tested. I have a table full of "pack this" and clothes will be added on Friday (tomorrow). I have a speaking engagement on Saturday so I have written that day off for productivity. The homemade frozen lasagna gets packed on the way out the door to the airport Sunday morning.

In the continuing spirit of being over the top I looked, as I usually do, at the Great Ciricle. I did this but didn't report on it on S/V Magic.

A straight line on a chart, which is almost always a Mercator projection, is a line of continuous bearing between two points. The distance between those points on our planet, as you can see as fourth graders do (or used to) with yarn on a globe, is shortest along a Great Circle which is usually a curve on a Mercator projection chart. I say "usually" because the closer you are to a course directly North or South the less curve there is and the smaller the distance between the rhumb line and the Great Circle. Crossing the Atlantic this makes a significant difference. You can see this in airplane routes to Europe. It is most interesting looking at routes from the San Diego to the South Pacific as the Great Circle bows away from the equator so the shortest course is S-shaped. See Wolfram Demonstrations Project . Of course wind, ocean currents, and other bits of reality all have an impact.

From 18°21.8'N 064°50.7'W in the Middle Passage to 36°55.4'N 075°38.2'W the Chesapeake Bay safe water buoy is about 1,250 nm. As it happens our course will be close enough to N-S that the difference between the rhumb line and the Great Circle is a whopping 1.8 nm. Accordingly we'll steer as close to 335°T as we can (favored tack) and correct every few days. Note magnetic variation will be close to 0° in the beginning and a bit over 12° in the end. I usually steer to true. If the owners have their instruments set for magnetic we'll shift all the instruments over and then shift them back.

Aren't you glad to know this? Aren't you really glad I didn't share all the trigonometry with you? Trigonometry is beautiful.

To quote Captain Ron "if we get lost, we'll just pull in somewheres and ask directions." To quote me "it's pretty hard to miss a continent."


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## brett737cap (Dec 25, 2013)

That sounds like an awesome trip! Please keep me in mind for future trips. I am an Airline Captain (judgement, navigation, weather, and working in a crew), am very safety conscious, and have owned, lived on, and single-handed from 25' up to 50' sailboats. I've only been sailing since 2007 and have never done a long passage, but have done several 2-3 overnight, 250-300NM sails double-handed on my own boats. And I can travel for free, so getting someplace is no problem. I can usually get time off with a week or so of advance notice. I live South of Washington D.C., so I can fly out of any of the DC airports.

I am looking to get bluewater experience and, being used to working within a crew environment, so I fully understand Chain of Command. There is only one Captain. Feel free to PM me and I can give you more details as well as get to know you, if you are interested in future crew.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

brett737cap said:


> Feel free to PM me and I can give you more details as well as get to know you, if you are interested in future crew.


I've had pretty good experience with airline people on boats, except for when we returned to a charter boat on my honeymoon to find *two* Interline Regatta boats rafted up to us. Bugger all.

Which airline? I have a number of friends who fly or flew for AA. I am a million mile flier on United including my Continental miles. I think Southwest owes me an airplane. This trip I'm flying 2/19 BWI-MIA-STT on AA 1737 and 943.

One of the cool things about pilots is being able to talk about 500 mb charts.

BWI, IAD, and DCA are all good. ORF can be a big help and sometimes I hop from BWI to ORF on WN (nonstop (ha!) not usually routed on the aggregators) and on from there. Sometimes a one-way car rental is better.

I'm more than happy to put you or anyone on my crew list. It's an email list (about 600 people) and there is no charge. You don't have to send me a resume to sign up. I bet half my subscribers are dreamers who will never sail with me or anyone offshore. The rules are simple to respond to an opportunity. Don't expect me to remember who you are. Fill me in, include your most current sailing resume, and your specific availability when you respond to an opportunity. Put me on your email whitelist. Please don't write me to say you'd love to come but can't. Please.

I sort through all the applications and schedule phone interviews for the most likely candidates (I've posted about this before). I try to get back to everyone but once in a while someone falls through the cracks, especially on a high season trip to somewhere beautiful on a spiffy boat. Everyone that gets a phone call gets feedback - I don't think I've ever missed one of those.

Send a request to me at [email protected] and I'll add you manually or just email [email protected] from the address you want on the list and you'll be subscribed. There is a confirmation email so check your spam filters if you don't see it in a day.

All delivery notices have a subject line that starts with OPPORTUNITY: Crew get to and from the boat on their own and ALL costs on the boat are covered by the owner. I do my best to help with local transportation but can't promise anything. There are a very small number of paying mate positions but you must have sailed with me to be a candidate and the people in that category know who they are. I think there are five. I do have some other skippers I share work with. If we haven't sailed together I won't recommend you unless you have sailed with someone I trust implicitly (a VERY short list).

I'm more than happy to make friends and get to know people. Look through my SailNet posts and that will give you a head start. Second Saturday of each month I'm at the SSCA lunch at Leeward Market in Eastport (Annapolis MD) from 1230 'til 1500 unless I'm traveling. The lunch happens whether I am there or not. Follow the Seven Seas Cruising Association on Facebook for reminders.

I hope this helps.


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## brett737cap (Dec 25, 2013)

Thanks Dave,

I am a 767 captain now with United out of DC. If you have flown us a lot out of Dulles its possible you may have flown with me. I've been there 21 years now. I'll shoot you an email tp be put on your list and look for your opportunities. Hopefully I can go along on one, as I would like to get some good blue water experience.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Everything is packed except the frozen lasagna that goes in at 3a tomorrow morning when we head out the door for my flights. Janet must really love me to get up that early when she has a full day of her own. 

Weather is looking good, if a bit light on day 2 out.


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## Towguy (May 8, 2016)

Seem to have lost the "spot" had it a couple of days now not found thought it should have moved south last night? To start .


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm on the boat in St Thomas and the Spot is back on. Wasn't sure how interesting my basement door might be. Charlotte Amalie harbour is definitely nicer.


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## Towguy (May 8, 2016)

SVAuspicious said:


> I'm on the boat in St Thomas and the Spot is back on. Wasn't sure how interesting my basement door might be. Charlotte Amalie harbour is definitely nicer.


Ah yes there it is thank you, for the record I am jealous. W.i.w.t......Ralph


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

SPOT Shared Page

That should give you the spot link.
It looks like SVSuspicious is on a boat moored or anchored in the harbor off Charlotte Amalie.

Dave,
Charlotte Amalie Harbor is nicer? than Red Hook?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, expertise and spot with this forum.

Looking forward to watching your progress.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

CalebD said:


> It looks like SVSuspicious is on a boat moored or anchored in the harbor off Charlotte Amalie.
> 
> Dave,
> Charlotte Amalie Harbor is nicer? than Red Hook?


Yes - we're anchored in the harbor. Provisioning today by dinghy. Yippee.

I meant that the Spot showing in Charlotte Amalie is nicer than showing the location of my basement door.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Is that Lasagna defrosted yet? How many days in will you eat it?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

We got all the provisioning done yesterday, ferried out to the boat by dinghy, picked up the last two crew members, returned the rental car, back to the boat, outboard off dinghy and stowed, dinghy in davits and lashed in place. Boat orientation for final crew and late dinner. Combining the tired faces around the table with winds on the nose and a chance of showers and I decided to leave this morning rather than midnight last night.

We should be underway within an hour.



mbianka said:


> Is that Lasagna defrosted yet? How many days in will you eat it?


The lasagna, carefully wrapped, made it down here still frozen solid. It is in the boat freezer. I expect it to take a couple of days to thaw so I'll pull it out on Thursday and cook it Saturday or Sunday. An hour with the oven running is better scheduled toward the colder end of the trip.

Boat is fine if a little worn. Catamarans have so much space and watch standing in the salon is perfectly appropriate. Cool.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

We're underway. I expect to fall off the edge the Internet about midday. US ET on the boat.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SVAuspicious said:


> We're underway. I expect to fall off the edge the Internet about midday. US ET on the boat.


Fair winds and calm seas. Your Spot shows you heading east from Charlotte Amaile 
Latitude :
18.27125
Longitude :
-64.82574
Time :
2/21/2017, 7:28:33 AM


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Have a great sail... I'm jealous


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> ...snip...
> Boat is fine if a little worn. Catamarans have so much space and watch standing in the salon is perfectly appropriate. Cool.


I may be mistaken and I re-checked this thread, but I think that this is the first time you have mentioned that this boat, "Heaven", is a catamaran. 
Questions, questions.
Make, model/length, year etc.
Was it in charter at any point - you said it was "a little worn".

Of course these questions can wait until you get back into internet range.

I'd say it is an easy bet that this trip back to Annapolis will be quicker than it took to get SV Magic down there (catamaran vs monohull), all things being equal (which they never are). You will also be better able to comment on how this boat handles any seas you encounter along the way once it is over, versus SV Magic which did not get great reviews.

Time to check the NOAA radiofax pages.
Radiofax Charts - New Orleans

Fair winds.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm curious as to why they went around east end of St. Thomas instead of the west end. Since the prevailing winds in the area are usually from that direction.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

mbianka said:


> I'm curious as to why they went around east end of St. Thomas instead of the west end. Since the prevailing winds in the area are usually from that direction.


I would have the same question. The departure to the east of Charlotte Amalie would require care in navigating Government Cut, but it would be clear sailing through Middle Passage and then quickly into off soundings. Going west from Charlotte Amalie would require dodging hard stuff for several miles, which might be a concern for the skipper if a new and untested crew were on watch. Still, it would only be a matter of hours to clear sailing.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The passage between St. Thomas and Culebra is notoriously rough. I didn't follow the Spot, exactly which way did they go?


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> The passage between St. Thomas and Culebra is notoriously rough. I didn't follow the Spot, exactly which way did they go?


The Spot link is in CalebD's post #25. They went around St. Thomas to the east and out Middle Passage, extrapolating from their track north of the islands. Their course may have been determined by the prevailing winds at the time--I didn't check that.

Having sailed between Culebra and St. Thomas, you can tell you are less protected than to the east of St. Thomas in Pillsbury Sound, but it shouldn't matter that much if you are heading north as you are out into the deep ocean in a matter of hours.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

fallard said:


> The Spot link is in CalebD's post #25. They went around St. Thomas to the east and out Middle Passage, extrapolating from their track north of the islands. Their course may have been determined by the prevailing winds at the time--I didn't check that.
> 
> Having sailed between Culebra and St. Thomas, you can tell you are less protected than to the east of St. Thomas in Pillsbury Sound, but it shouldn't matter that much if you are heading north as you are out into the deep ocean in a matter of hours.


I did not check the winds either. But, I've always had very nice sails when heading to Culebra. I never headed north off the west side though. Conditions might have been different when S/V Heaven headed out or maybe concern about an unfamiliar boat with a new crew and not having enough experience with how she sails might have played into the course choice. I'm curious as to the reason.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

CalebD said:


> I may be mistaken and I re-checked this thread, but I think that this is the first time you have mentioned that this boat, "Heaven", is a catamaran.
> Questions, questions.
> Make, model/length, year etc.
> Was it in charter at any point - you said it was "a little worn".
> ...


He said in his first post that the boat is a Lagoon 42.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3887


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> ...snip...
> I'm bringing Lagoon 42 _Heaven_ from St Thomas (yes I know I was just there) to Annapolis (yes I know). I'm leaving in about a week and a half. The trip should be about 8 days, weather permitting.


D'oh. Attention deficit disorder. Thanks midwesterner.

Projected 8 day transit time would be quite a bit quicker than SV Magic took to get to St. Thomas.

There is a gale warning off the east coast of Florida that may make this trip interesting as they head north.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CalebD said:


> There is a gale warning off the east coast of Florida that may make this trip interesting as they head north.


On the other hand they might have a quick run north. I was in Culebra last January when winds backed around from the south (water visibility went to hell and so did the chances of snorkeling  ) I was was trying to figure out why the normal easterly winds switched so strongly from the south. Checked the winds and it was the winter storm Jonas all the way up in the Northeast U.S. that was sucking those winds north:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: RIDERS ON THE STORM 
Would have been a great wind to head north from St. Thomas though that is until you need to go west.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Looks like they should have a nice southerly 15 knot wind at their current approximate location:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...hographic=-65.05,23.92,284/loc=-68.184,25.299

Waves look like they may off the starboard quarter at around 8 feet?:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...hographic=-65.05,23.92,284/loc=-68.184,25.299

That Low off Florida looks it is going to cut in front of them and might switch those winds around to the north.  Anyone else have a prediction?


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, they have already altered to a more northwesterly course, presumably to allow the worst of that low to pass ahead of them while avoiding some areas of larger swells. And yes, the wind may very well clock around to the north on them. 
We shall see.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CalebD said:


> Well, they have already altered to a more northwesterly course, presumably to allow the worst of that low to pass ahead of them while avoiding some areas of larger swells. And yes, the wind may very well clock around to the north on them.
> We shall see.


Yeah with the winds now off the portside northwest makes sense.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...hographic=-67.21,23.49,278/loc=-69.515,26.770

Tomorrow and tomorrow night does not look like much fun out there. I think they may head on more northerly track to avoid the headwinds:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/...hographic=-67.21,23.49,278/loc=-69.515,26.770

After getting through tomorrow and tomorrow night I think they will head west or northwest again.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/...hographic=-67.21,23.49,278/loc=-69.515,26.770

After that it looks like a couple of real nice days of southerly winds to ride up the Gulf Stream and into the Chesapeake
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/...hographic=-67.21,23.49,278/loc=-69.515,26.770

Well at least that's my prediction from the cozy confines of the dining room table here in Washington DC.  Severe thunderstorm warning here for this afternoon as a cold front sweeps away yesterdays 75 degree F temperatures. I think that is what they will run into tomorrow and tomorrow night. Things should improve out there after that.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SVAuspicious said:


> The lasagna, carefully wrapped, made it down here still frozen solid. It is in the boat freezer. I expect it to take a couple of days to thaw so I'll pull it out on Thursday and cook it Saturday or Sunday. An hour with the oven running is better scheduled toward the colder end of the trip.


29:05N
70:77W

Hope they are enjoying that Lasagna. According to my calculations they had a run yesterday of about 156 nm. Nice!

Winds today look to be out of the Northeast about 20 knots.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/...hographic=-67.98,23.71,648/loc=-70.408,29.085

Waves look to be coming both from the west and east? Confused seas?? Significant wave height about 8 feet. 
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2017/...hographic=-67.98,23.71,648/loc=-70.408,29.085


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

11:02 UTC 6:02 AM EST Position
31:02:00N
71:37:00W

Looks like a run of approx 118nm.
Spot Battery has a Low Condition. Hopefully they will catch this before it dies.

Current winds
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...hographic=-67.52,20.93,648/loc=-71.544,31.021

Current waves
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...hographic=-67.52,20.93,648/loc=-71.544,31.021


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Daily runs like that are not going to get them back in the estimated 8 day transit time.
8 days might be a realistic time estimate given ideal conditions for the entire trip, which they have not had. 
Things seem a bit calmer out there where they are now; perhaps not enough wind to go their top speed even. Sailing is often like that: too much wind, too little wind, perfect wind from the wrong direction.
If the NOAA radiofax 48 hour wind/wave forecast holds it may get a bit more frisky out there as they approach Hatteras but at least it shows a SW wind albeit up to 35 knots.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CalebD said:


> Daily runs like that are not going to get them back in the estimated 8 day transit time.
> 8 days might be a realistic time estimate given ideal conditions for the entire trip, which they have not had.
> Things seem a bit calmer out there where they are now; perhaps not enough wind to go their top speed even. Sailing is often like that: too much wind, too little wind, perfect wind from the wrong direction.
> If the NOAA radiofax 48 hour wind/wave forecast holds it may get a bit more frisky out there as they approach Hatteras but at least it shows a SW wind albeit up to 35 knots.


Indeed. I was looking at some of NOAA Ocean predictions for where they are now as they are entering the high. Looked like they have only about ten knots of wind. Though maybe that is a welcome relief after dealing with that low. Looking to hear the full report once they get to the Chesapeake. Glad they changed out the low battery on the Spot tracker. Wonder when they were last replaced? St.Thomas? If so they did not last that long.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Looks like they are about 75 nm east of Nags Head and about 70 nm from the Chesapeake Bay entrance this morning and have south wind from the stern. That's going to change this afternoon though. Nasty looking cold front is heading their way with a wind shift from the west making for some head winds as they head into the Chesapeake Bay. But, the good news is they are almost there.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

My phone has been going nuts today with all the weather warnings for the Baltimore area. This cold front is looking dangerous. 
Let's hope they get to a good spot before all that hits them.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Home Stretch!

Looking forward to the travel report considering the observations the followers here were seeing with the weather.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Home Stretch!
> 
> Looking forward to the travel report considering the observations the followers here were seeing with the weather.


Looking forward to see if they matched up to your experiences out there.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Back on the Internet approaching Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. It's been a trip. Should be in Little Creek in a couple of hours to lick our wounds before the last bit up to Annapolis. More detail to follow.

Outstanding crew.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

almost home. Good job guys.

I guess this explains the weird hook on the SPOT track.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Under tow by USCG 45126. Stories to tell. A lot of stories. Semper Paratus.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SVAuspicious said:


> Under tow by USCG 45126. Stories to tell. A lot of stories. Semper Paratus.


Ooow. Sounds like it was not a pleasure cruise.  I was trying to imagine the conditions out there from the wind and wave graphics. I thought the conditions might be better than what computer graphics were showing. But, maybe not. Looking forward to your report. Still welcome back from the sea.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

What a tease. My family has come up with all sorts of scenarios. "Wait for the story!!!"


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Spot track before Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel makes me think they lost steering somehow.
Yikes!
If so, glad they are now able to lick their wounds, from a dock.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Ummm...

This just showed up on the NewsReader feed.

Coast Guard rescues 4 on sailboat in rough seas

Get some rest guys... you deserve it.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

They make it sound like Heaven left out of Virginia Beach for a daysail.

"“We encourage all boaters to consider the conditions and the weather forecast before heading out.""


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## willyd (Feb 22, 2008)

Donna_F said:


> They make it sound like Heaven left out of Virginia Beach for a daysail.
> 
> ""We encourage all boaters to consider the conditions and the weather forecast before heading out.""


That seems to have been their impression: ""Despite the heavy winds and rough seas, we were able to hook up the tow and get these folks back to port without incident," said Petty Officer 2nd Class Geoffrey Wells."

That is one ad-heavy news website.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

https://www.facebook.com/SVAuspicio...=notif&notif_t=like&notif_id=1488547462600815


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

When we get back off the dock this morning I should have time to catch up back to post #32. 

At the moment I can see my breath inside the cabin.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

When did the USCG start towing boats?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

mbianka said:


> I'm curious as to why they went around east end of St. Thomas instead of the west end. Since the prevailing winds in the area are usually from that direction.


Good question.

Because I wanted to. *grin* My original plan was to raise the main in the relative protection of Pillsbury Sound. Add that I have more experience there than going West early and it was my choice. We could have easily gone the other way. Judgment call and not particularly important. Worst case it may have added a couple of hours.

In the event, the NW winds meant motoring for a really grim 75 nm day into head winds.



ianjoub said:


> When did the USCG start towing boats?


The more appropriate question is when the USCG stopped towing boats. Back in the 80s a towing company (I forget which - a little one now out of business) sued the Federal Government for restraint of trade by competing with commercial interests. The upshot was a decision that the USCG would not tow boats unless no commercial option was available. In our case I called TowboatUS who decided the weather was too rough. TowboatUS actually called USCG to ask for assistance.

The USCG was outstanding.

Story to follow once we get underway.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

darc said:


> There are those that measure their greatness by their scars. The truly great have none.
> 
> I think you might want to rethink your abilities...


I just sailed offshore in the opposite direction with Dave. You are wrong and heading in the wrong direction with these comments.

I don't consider myself at Dave's sailing level, but we have called for help in the past on our own boat and I feel no shame for doing it. Dave was responsible for three other souls on that boat. He did what he felt was best under whatever circumstances they were in. Circumstances, all of which we have no idea about. Three of us crewed with him on his previous trip. When there was a major decision to be made he asked our opinions. In the end, he was responsible for the boat and our lives.

Give me an example of someone "truly great" who arrived there without scars or missteps.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

darc said:


> There are those that measure their greatness by their scars. The truly great have none.
> 
> I think you might want to rethink your abilities...


Plenty of great people who have done great things in their lives and wear their scars proudly. Sometimes those scars tells the stories of how that person got their experience. It's not necessarily a hindrance on their capabilities.

Granted, I've only met Dave one time, but I've only ever heard great things about the man.



darc said:


> There was a Cornel study made a few years back on how people who think they are good at something that aren't don't have the mental capacity to know the difference...
> If you didn't see before hand that the outcome of his folly would be any different then what it did. I'd have to say your in the first part of my original thought and assuredly a member of my second.
> 
> If it walks like a duck...


:|
huh?
This comment don't really make sense. But you're judging someones abilities from.... what? Because they decided to get a tow? because the boat and/or crew got banged up along the way?

Many people can make the greatest plans, but conditions can change and you just have to react the best you can. Sounds like they did the best they could with whatever happened during their passage.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

darc, just out of curiosity do you know Dave? Have you spoken with him, sailed with him, or done anything other than read a few posts on this forum? If not, I would submit that you are pompous idiot who draws conclusions about people with little information. That makes you a fool in my book.

Cheers,
CLiP


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

darc said:


> No that they left St Thomas in Feb heading north in a piece of crap charter cat. I think it was criminal the he put 3 others at risk and sorry I didn't say something before hand!


Perhaps you should reach for the remote in your armchair pouch and change the channel.


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## mward (Feb 8, 2017)

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. 

-- Teddy Roosevelt.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Donna_F said:


> we have called for help in the past on our own boat and I feel no shame for doing it.


Donna, why were Darc's posts deleted but the attack posts against him remain?


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## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

darc said:


> ...condescending know-it-all douchebaggery babble...


Hey. STFU.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

ianjoub said:


> Donna, why were Darc's posts deleted but the attack posts against him remain?


He deleted his own posts.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SVAuspicious said:


> Good question.
> 
> Because I wanted to. *grin* My original plan was to raise the main in the relative protection of Pillsbury Sound. Add that I have more experience there than going West early and it was my choice. We could have easily gone the other way. Judgment call and not particularly important. Worst case it may have added a couple of hours.
> 
> In the event, the NW winds meant motoring for a really grim 75 nm day into head winds.


I understand now. I did not check the winds the day you left. My experience has been we usually got nice easterly's or strong southerly's if some storm in the Atlantic is sucking everything up there. Northwesterly's would be kind of suckey. I cringe just thinking of those waves banging against the bridge deck of the catamaran for hours on end. Not a fun way to start that's for sure.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

The weather in the Eastern Caribbean has not been typical. When we were there in November 2016 some locals mentioned that they were getting odd weather systems for that time of year. When we sailed down in January we never did encounter the trade winds.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Right now 18-23 g30 through Tues at least. Stuck in sopers wanting st martin. 
Don't like charter cats on passage. No issue with a outremer or catana be delighted to take one anywhere. but don't think boats designed for charter are aimed at passage making. Wonder whats Dave's opinion


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

One of the major dilemmas of being a delivery captain must be the relatively short time period given to evaluate the boat and its systems. When flying somewhere your ability to take spares (even if you knew what you might need) is pretty limited. I'm anxious to hear Dave's stories. One thing is clear to me, his ego doesn't preclude him from asking for help when he needs it. A lesson a lot of us can probably take to heart.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I didn't see @darc 's comments before he deleted them so I only know what was quoted by others. I won't risk taking him out of context.

I can say categorically that I have never claimed to be great. There are a number of things I am certainly good at and sailing in its many facets is one. I go out of my way to share my experiences and particularly my mistakes in order to help others.

I am humbled by those who have supported me while I have been *ahem* busy. Thank you all.



Donna_F said:


> we have called for help in the past on our own boat and I feel no shame for doing it. Dave was responsible for three other souls on that boat. He did what he felt was best under whatever circumstances they were in.


When we first called USCG to alert them to a possible issue we were in Sector North Carolina AOR. At the point we really did need help we were in Sector Hampton Roads AOR. They knew who we were, what we looked like, where we had departed, where we were headed, and lots of other details.

When we were safely at the dock with the Coast Guardsmen aboard and being fed fresh-baked cookies the BM2 Coxswain asked me when I retired from the USCG. Apparently they aren't used to crisp radio procedures and crews properly fitted out, directed, and executing. It wasn't hard and it certainly doesn't make me feel that I am in any way "great."



Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Plenty of great people who have done great things in their lives and wear their scars proudly. Sometimes those scars tells the stories of how that person got their experience. It's not necessarily a hindrance on their capabilities.


Sharing our errors and what we learned frees others, those with open minds and a desire to improve themselves, to make new and creative mistakes of their own. The best of those will share their mistakes and pay it forward.



mward said:


> It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> 
> -- Teddy Roosevelt.


Mr. Roosevelt, unlike me, was a great man.



mbianka said:


> I understand now. I did not check the winds the day you left. My experience has been we usually got nice easterly's or strong southerly's if some storm in the Atlantic is sucking everything up there. Northwesterly's would be kind of suckey. I cringe just thinking of those waves banging against the bridge deck of the catamaran for hours on end. Not a fun way to start that's for sure.





outbound said:


> Right now 18-23 g30 through Tues at least. Stuck in sopers wanting st martin.
> Don't like charter cats on passage. No issue with a outremer or catana be delighted to take one anywhere. but don't think boats designed for charter are aimed at passage making. Wonder whats Dave's opinion


It wasn't a fun trip, even absent failures. Very noisy boat from bridge deck pounding, bow pounding, and creaking bulkheads. I think I know why the owners decided to have someone else move the boat.



oldlaxer1 said:


> One of the major dilemmas of being a delivery captain must be the relatively short time period given to evaluate the boat and its systems. When flying somewhere your ability to take spares (even if you knew what you might need) is pretty limited. I'm anxious to hear Dave's stories. One thing is clear to me, his ego doesn't preclude him from asking for help when he needs it. A lesson a lot of us can probably take to heart.


Thank you.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

The story.

We left Charlotte Amalie and as noted headed East to pass through Pillsbury Sound and Middle Passage. My original intent was to raise sail in the protection of Pillsbury Sound but with winds from NW we motored for a slow, 75 nm day. After a day we got full sail up in lighter and more favorable winds. We sailed touching 11 and 12 kts regularly, averaging about 7 kts. There were a lot of minor failures such as hatch latches that came off (leaks), some electrical odds and ends. joker valves that are past their "best by" date, and more. The first big deal was the main halyard chafing through where it passed over the head block of the mainsail. We lost the use of the main. The main was recovered, tied down, bagged but not helping us sail. A few days later the port sail drive seized up and we were left with one engine (24 ft wide boat) and a small jib. Add diesel leaking into the boat from at least one of the jerry jugs on the rail and concerns increased. 

Somewhere off the border between South Carolina and North Carolina I elected to call the USCG and set a radio watch. Sector North Carolina collected all our relevant information, coordinated with Sector Hampton Roads, and set a radio schedule. 

When we reached the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay we found that with just a jib and one engine we could not get through the opening for Thimble Shoal Channel. We got pretty good an making circles in the water. 

I called TowboatUS who declined to come get us (one man on a boat, small boat). TowboatUS called USCG and asked them to come get us. Five men in a 45' boat came out. They had a pretty rough time. Our alternative was to stand off and potentially end up in Bermuda. 

We fixed some things in Little Creek, fueled, and this morning headed out to try to make Annapolis. Even in smaller seas and lighter winds we could not make progress. We are currently at anchor just outside Little Creek. The forecast is for the winds to lighten a bit tomorrow. We will make an assessment in the morning and decide whether to try again for Annapolis or head into Hampton. The owners are part of decision-making but I am responsible for those aboard. 

I know the management at Bluewater Yachting Center in Hampton. The owners like the facility. I know the local TowboatUS franchise. I suspect we will be at BYC by noon and my crew and I will be making 65 mph to windward. 

Constructive questions, challenges, and comments are welcome. I'll fill in detail as I get a chance. We're all pretty beat so there is some professional grade napping going on. *grin* Oh - and eating. It's pretty bumpy out here but so much better than the last couple of days we are catching up on calories.


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## JSL3 (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks for sharing!


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## mward (Feb 8, 2017)

SVAuspicious said:


> Sharing our errors and what we learned frees others, those with open minds and a desire to improve themselves, to make new and creative mistakes of their own. The best of those will share their mistakes and pay it forward.


A wise man once told me, "I have to learn from other people, I don't have time to make all the mistakes on my own".


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Dave, what exact model boat is this? The CG article said 46, and you originally said 42, but Lagoon made at least 3 different models of 42 that are vastly different from one another - L42 sleek looking with sloping cabin windows, L420 kinda boxy with vertical windows, and L42 looks like just like a box with picture windows.

Mark


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

colemj said:


> Dave, what exact model boat is this?


Lagoon 420. I think it's a late 2000s but the documentation says "UNKNOWN" for year.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

No shame ever in calling the CG when you feel you may have a potential situation developing. Knowing Dave the small amount I do I respect greatly his sailing abilities as well as his concerns for safety whether solo or certainly with the people he is in charge of when captaining. In my small opinion he is a good smart sailor and would never knowingly put himself and certainly not others in a compromising situation. 

As a delivery captain I am sure that his reputation is similar. I beleive he is methodical in accessing the boats he moves as well has the reputations with owners as a straight shooter with safety. If he didn't have that reputation and had the opposite one he would not be in business long. I would never hesitate to recommend him to people I know and have done that in the past. I would trust him with my boat. 

That being said there is room on this or any Sailnet forum for questioning decisions or disagreement with dicisions as long a done with respect and no one including tc


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry my screen froze

Most important Dave and his crew are safe....which I had no doubt he would insure. That's his prime directive and goal. 

What I was saying disagreements are natural and opinions on decisions need to be recognized with respect even with the most experienced of members on here. Just because a person has expertise in one area doesn't make them an expert in all areas. 

I would never pretend to have expertise in deliving others boats, however that doesn't minimize my own extensive experience as well as right to an opinion. There are many large volume posters on Sailnet. Many have extensive sailing experience. Some off shore, some in their own areas they sail in. Sometimes I have felt that the offshore sailors / cruisers and their high perches may not understand or even have the same goals in sailing as I do as a mostly weekender with a few long trips every year and a charter thrown in. We do between 2500-3000 documented nautical miles a year. I guess that may qualify us for frequent sailing benefits...lol. Right now we are working our way down the Windwards to Grenada on a charter with friends. It isn't my first time offshore, or my first rodeo. I have done more than one delivery with a few captains and all have taught me things and many are great sailors in offshore sailing. I would love to sail with Dave and trust him, mainly because of his meticulous nature and his commitment to safety. Anyone who would challenge that hasn't read on here much about what he posts. He and I have had more than a few differences of opinion, but none involved safety and his abilities and judgement. I know people who have sailed with him on deliveries and many have learned a lot from him. 

There are many people who have helped me along the way to delope my own sailing style and experience. I am the sum total of all I have learned from, including my own experience ( successes and mistakes. While it is good to do testimonials of Dave it isn't necessary. Even in the face of someone who wishes to question his decisions. His reputation can withstand any questioning and even criticisms may help our own understanding of situational decisions. I would caution the moderator to use restraint in defending a friend who she has a long relationship with to maintain some neutrality here. I am sure this last statement may open me up to criticism for my opinion from his/ her many friends. But there is no objectivity as shown by the quick defense of her friend. I didn't see where the poster had up to that point crossed any lines. He/ she may have been headed there, 

As I started out, my respect for Dave as a delivery captain as well as a champion of safety as well as his record in SSCA of which I am a member is with out question. Opinions which differ with his are also important. 

I continue after many years to post on Sailnet because I think many if not most sailors Sailnet sailors are similar to us. While we don't travel many offshore miles, yet we travel a lot in our beloved Chesapeake and the LI Sound. To us the stories of deliveries offshore ( which I have done a number of times in my life) are interesting and thought provoking, And for those who aspire to do that some day informative and informational. That does not make them them more qualified in general to talk about all things related to a boat. However it does mean they have great experience in what they do in their majority sailing. But many are weekend sailors who could cAreless about Florida anchoring laws
Or cruising offshore. 

If you open your mind you can leRn from anyone, even new people on here. If you open your mind

Opinions are here all the time. Everyone has one, and everyone a right to express their opinions with getting slammed by others or shot down


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Dave... glad to hear all are safe and thank you for sharing the trip with us. 

I've sailed with Dave on three deliveries and each have their own story. Everyone of the deliveries we did was an incredible learning experience. I've never met a sailor who is more willing to share thier knowledge with others! 

I was not always the best crew for him, but I know he does not hold that agaist me. On any extended time one is likely going to have some opinions, what I took away from those experiences was invaluable however and I learned much about myself, asked myself many questions, and hopefully am a better person and sailor because of the opportunity Dave provided me.

Hope to sail with you again Dave. 

Shawn


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

T37Chef said:


> Hope to sail with you again Dave.


Anytime Shawn. I'm always happy to have you as crew or sail with you.

Extra credit for sailing with the girls.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

T37Chef said:


> Hope to sail with you again Dave.


I'm up on anchor watch. It's bumpy as all get out in the open roadstead and really very cold. The time for this delivery is at an end. We got within striking distance but I have come to the conclusion that our chances of safely reaching Annapolis are low. Too many things have broken and during some stretches of the run up the Bay we are far from help. While I advocate not being shy about calling for aid I also feel it is unwise to head out with the expectation of depending on others to support an inadequate boat.

In the morning the local TowboatUS tower is going to come get us. He is a good guy. We talked at some length last evening. Bluewater Yachting Center in Hampton VA is expecting us. I'm happy to visit there again and they remember me which is nice. There is an Enterprise car rental nearby who will come get me and crew and I will head out as soon as we get the boat cleaned up.

So while I am sitting out here waiting for dawn I thought I would tell a story about Shawn. *grin*

I can't remember for sure which trip it was but I suspect it was the first time he sailed with me. He said a couple of times that just because he is a chef he didn't want to have to do all the cooking. Then he would disappear below and seemingly without effort pump out something grand from whatever I had provisioned. I remember a great salad with a wonderful ginger dressing. I knew I hadn't bought any ginger but Shawn had ground up a couple of cookies from the ginger snaps I always buy in case someone feels off and made a ginger vinaigrette. I don't know why that particular dish stands out as everything Shawn has made for me has been very good. Perhaps the creativity.

Shawn was with me entering New York Harbor in the middle of the night. We had a great talk about night sailing and the timing of commercial shipping getting underway.

I should say that all the Sailnet members who have sailed with me have been really good crew. I think there have been six over the last few years. All have been a real pleasure to have aboard.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Speaking of food and cooking were you able to cook that Lasagna when you planned did conditions prevent it?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I've been offline for the last week, so just getting caught up now. Glad all are safe. Boarding flight to Grenada in a few minutes. Look like lots of rain, wind 20-25 all week. We brought ginger snaps. If we don't need them we'll celebrate by making vinaigrette.


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## CoastLife (Jan 14, 2017)

Very interesting thread. Thanks Dave for sharing your experience! It takes a confident person willing to share their challenges with people. And it is invaluable to new sailors like myself. 

I'm just watching the spot updater now. Seems like you're getting a tow to the boatyard now.

I'm refitting my new to me 83 hunter 34' and were going through the whole boat replacing anything questionable. Which is going to give me some piece of mind while learning to sail off the coast of Nova Scotia. It would seem like a daunting task to jump in someone elses boat of questionable condition and sail it such a long distance. 

Do you do an extensive survey before quoting a delivery? Do you sometimes recommend people carry out a list of repairs before you'd be willing to deliver the boat? 

Thanks for sharing! Stay safe. 
-Chad


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

mbianka said:


> Speaking of food and cooking were you able to cook that Lasagna when you planned did conditions prevent it?


Yep. Good reviews.



CoastLife said:


> Do you do an extensive survey before quoting a delivery? Do you sometimes recommend people carry out a list of repairs before you'd be willing to deliver the boat?


We're underway behind Towboat Retriever. Byron is a great captain and a fine person. I'll fill y'all in over the next few days when I warm up.

Generally there is no current survey. I do the best I can when I get to the boat but I can't spend days going through systems and taking things apart. Sometimes it comes down to trust in the owner and a gut feel. In this case both were misplaced.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Great story Dave, a service to this community.

On the internet whenever someone is willing to tell a story about things that went bad, there is inevitable criticism from some.

Speaking for myself, I want to express my appreciation for your telling the story here. IMHO, anyone who's sailed any distance and hasn't had trouble with equipment, weather, and/or crew is either extraordinarily lucky, or has a selective memory. It's how we deal with these things when they happen that counts. 

Looks to me like a lot of good decisions were made on this trip. Boat and crew safe.

Good work.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Learned to change where the main halyard rests on the block at the top of the mast some years ago. A pro captain like Dave told be most wear on it actually occurs at anchor. So now loop it around a dorade box guard and change the distance every time we take the halyard off the sail.Said between a bit of UV and the constant micro movement it's a high wear spot.
Continually hear about saildrive troubles. Understand why Bob and other designers like them. Seems to me having gears and such in the water in a place where you can't get to them unless the boat is pulled isn't the greatest idea on a cruising boat.KISS.
Schedules kill. Feel sorry for people who move boats for a living. God bless that Dave kept the water out and got to sleep on land.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

outbound said:


> Continually hear about saildrive troubles. Understand why Bob and other designers like them. Seems to me having gears and such in the water in a place where you can't get to them unless the boat is pulled isn't the greatest idea on a cruising boat.KISS.
> Schedules kill. Feel sorry for people who move boats for a living. God bless that Dave kept the water out and got to sleep on land.


Reminds me of the early days of electric propulsion for smaller boats in 2007. Some early sellers were hawking having the electric motors in pods under the water. Always seemed like a bad idea to me too for those same reasons.

One of the nice things of cruising in retirement I've found is schedules don't matter as much and the same goes for destinations. Deliveries like Dave was doing have to meet different criteria. But in both cases that first unlimited hot water shower at a marina is delightful.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

The actual saildrive transmission is inside the boat and not in the water - just like a shaft transmission. It can be worked on without pulling the boat. The only part below the water is a vertical shaft connected to the horizontal prop shaft. There are two bearings and a single transfer gear between the two in the underwater bit, but unlikely that was the issue.

On a delivery like this, I seriously doubt a saildrive transmission vs. shaft drive transmission packing it up makes any difference to the crew effecting a repair in bad weather or good - lack of tools and manuals being only two of the reasons.

I doubt there is much wear on a halyard at anchor, and it wouldn't matter when raised if there was because that part of the halyard would be down in the loose tail when raised. One would easily see any approaching wear whenever the sail was raised. Every halyard wear point I have ever seen or experienced has been near the sail attachment point where it sits in the sheave box when raised. Wear can be even more prevalent at reef point heights where the halyard can develop motion against the sheave box sides.

Being fractional rigged with the jib and spinnaker halyards exiting below the masthead, most catamarans are rigged with two main halyards. Sometimes one is used as a topping lift, else it is just belayed as a spare halyard. It would have been useful had this boat had a spare halyard.

Mark


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run" - Kenny Rogers

Let us not forget that Shawn is a hero too for he plucked, what was it, 3 or 4 people out of the Bay from a swamped fishing skiff near the Bay bridge while sailing solo on his Tartan 37'. Ginger snap vinegrette notwithstanding I mean to thank SVAuspicious for sharing this experience with the rest of us.

While this arm chair sailor was happily watching their SPOT transmission and cross checking it with the NOAA radiofax wind/wave/sea state charts they were out there dealing with the wind, waves, creaky bulkheads, wonky saildrive transmission and busted main halyard. It looked a bit rough from my comfortable seat but I had no idea how rough it actually was. Frankly, I find it fairly amazing that they made it as close to Norfolk as they did before calling for help since the boat had been compromised well before Cape Charles. 

I'd bet the hardest part of this delivery business is knowing when to throw in the towel.

Thanks again Dave.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CalebD said:


> While this arm chair sailor was happily watching their SPOT transmission and cross checking it with the NOAA radiofax wind/wave/sea state charts they were out there dealing with the wind, waves, creaky bulkheads, wonky saildrive transmission and busted main halyard. It looked a bit rough from my comfortable seat but I had no idea how rough it actually was.


I was thinking the same thing looking at the wind and wave simulations at their positions. I thought maybe it's not as bad as I think it was from looking at the models. Hopefully Dave can fill in more of the day to day details after he rests up.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Well Dave, you got Heaven close to home. The owner can now get repairs done and it is close enough to home to travel there and check on repairs. Then the owner can choose to have you sail it the rest of the way or sail it to Annapolis themselves.

I'm curious about the situation. Was this a newly purchased boat by the owner or had this owner sailed it down to the Virgin Islands and just wanting to get it back home on the Chesapeake?

How to familiar was the owner with this boat and its condition?

New purchase?
Purchased and personally inspected by the owner?
Purchased sight-unseen with only a survey?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

"While this arm chair sailor was happily watching their SPOT transmission and cross checking it with the NOAA radiofax..."

CalebD, is there a web link for land-based access to the NOAA radio fax? Might come in handy on our charter this week.

[Never mind, I found the mobile phone version. ]


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've been gone for the last 10 days and just catching up. Glad to hear the crew of Heaven is dry and warm. The thought of sailing back to these temps in a working boat, sounded miserable enough.

The failure chain can usually be traced back to a strange noise, an operating anomaly that goes away or even a bad feeling. Curious, in hindsight, when the mess began to reveal itself. It's usually not obvious at the time.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Golly this is going to a long one. Another Dave dissertation.



capecodda said:


> Great story Dave, a service to this community.


Thank you for saying so. That is my intent. Sharing my experience and especially my mistakes gives others the opportunity to learn and the freedom to make new and creative mistakes of their own. I hope you will share yours so I may learn from them.



outbound said:


> Continually hear about saildrive troubles. Understand why Bob and other designers like them.


Yes. The really big deal for designers and builders is that all the alignment is done in the engine factory and you just drop them into the big hole in the bottom of the boat. I don't like the big hole. I don't like all the seals. I don't like the power train. Other than that they are fine. *grin*



mbianka said:


> But in both cases that first unlimited hot water shower at a marina is delightful.


Not nearly so nice as the first shower at home and the night in your own bed.



colemj said:


> There are two bearings and a single transfer gear between the two in the underwater bit, but unlikely that was the issue.
> 
> On a delivery like this, I seriously doubt a saildrive transmission vs. shaft drive transmission packing it up makes any difference to the crew effecting a repair in bad weather or good - lack of tools and manuals being only two of the reasons.


I agree. I think a seal that leaked gear oil into the sea and seawater into the saildrive will ultimately be determined to be causal.



colemj said:


> Every halyard wear point I have ever seen or experienced has been near the sail attachment point where it sits in the sheave box when raised. Wear can be even more prevalent at reef point heights where the halyard can develop motion against the sheave box sides.


I agree. In this case with a halyard doubled back (dead ended at the masthead, down to a sheave at the sail head, back to a sheave at the mast head and down to the deck) it was where the halyard ran around the sail head block that failed.



colemj said:


> Being fractional rigged with the jib and spinnaker halyards exiting below the masthead, most catamarans are rigged with two main halyards. Sometimes one is used as a topping lift, else it is just belayed as a spare halyard. It would have been useful had this boat had a spare halyard.


There was a running topping lift. I considered it as a backup halyard. The boat has a sailbag with lazy jacks and no rodkicker (hard vang). That late in the game climbing back up on the cabin top and hard top to undo the lazy jacks (permanently fixed) and figure out a way to land the boom on the hardtop without damage to the solar panels so I could access the topping lift was just too much. Did I mention we had already had a traveler failure?



CalebD said:


> While this arm chair sailor was happily watching their SPOT transmission and cross checking it with the NOAA radiofax wind/wave/sea state charts they were out there dealing with the wind, waves, creaky bulkheads, wonky saildrive transmission and busted main halyard. It looked a bit rough from my comfortable seat but I had no idea how rough it actually was. Frankly, I find it fairly amazing that they made it as close to Norfolk as they did before calling for help since the boat had been compromised well before Cape Charles.
> 
> I'd bet the hardest part of this delivery business is knowing when to throw in the towel.


It was pretty rough. There was a lot of slamming from both the hulls and the bridge deck. We had debris all over the cabin from items the owner never properly secured. Who doesn't screw things down?



midwesterner said:


> I'm curious about the situation. Was this a newly purchased boat by the owner or had this owner sailed it down to the Virgin Islands and just wanting to get it back home on the Chesapeake?


My understanding is that they bought the boat about three years ago (against the advise of many more experienced cruisers) and had it delivered to the Chesapeake. They spent a couple of years refitting and then joined the Salty Dawg Rally to the Caribbean. After a year in the Caribbean family issues have drawn them home.

The owner describes himself as not much of a sailor and says he considers the boat a floating hotel.



TakeFive said:


> "While this arm chair sailor was happily watching their SPOT transmission and cross checking it with the NOAA radiofax..."
> 
> CalebD, is there a web link for land-based access to the NOAA radio fax? Might come in handy on our charter this week.


You can also look at AuspiciousWorks - Communications / Yacht Management / Deliveries Worldwide


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SVAuspicious said:


> I agree. I think a seal that leaked gear oil into the sea and seawater into the saildrive will ultimately be determined to be causal.


Water in the oil is unlikely to be the problem, assuming the oil was checked and found to be good before the trip began (pretty basic SOP). Bearings, clutches and gears wouldn't be ruined that fast.

If it happened underway, a bit of water in the oil would be just fine for the duration. It would have to have been a massive seal failure to lose all the oil out to sea. Unlikely, unless you really wrapped up some monofilament or similar along the way.

Mark


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

colemj said:


> Water in the oil is unlikely to be the problem, assuming the oil was checked and found to be good before the trip began (pretty basic SOP). Bearings, clutches and gears wouldn't be ruined that fast.
> 
> If it happened underway, a bit of water in the oil would be just fine for the duration. It would have to have been a massive seal failure to lose all the oil out to sea. Unlikely, unless you really wrapped up some monofilament or similar along the way.


Monofilament is possible. I think a massive seal failure is most likely. Both saildrives swallowed a lot of gear oil and we checked them and topped them up every running day. The port drive went from topped up full to a failure in a few hours and when checked after the failure the level was below the dipstick.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

If there was a seal failure due to monofilament, I would expect to see milky colored oil in the gear case, the same as you see on an outboard motor with similar seal loss from monofilament line. When the level of the gear oil goes down, which is very rare, the leak is usually above the water line and the leak goes into the shaft housing then leaks into the sea.

Good luck,

Gary


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