# Sailing to a foreign country.



## JohnT777 (Jul 2, 2018)

I know you can't just go to a foreign country without a visa etc. Is it different if you're on a boat and want to anchor and take on supplies? Say I wanted to sail to the US from the UK. Could I just pull into a harbor after getting permission and just anchor , come ashore and get supplies , stay a while? How does that work?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

To your question, the moment your anchor touches bottom, you're considered to have entered the country and need to comply with customs and immigration policies. These differ by country and not all require visas from all foreign citizens.

www.noonsite.com is a good resource to sort this out.

There is a maritime law, whose name I'm dropping at the moment, that permits one to transit through a foreign country's waters, enroute to another destination, without clearing in, but you can't stop.

I suspect some get away with what you're suggesting, in remote areas. I've always cleared in, however, I've not always followed it to the letter of the law. In one case, we were supposed to go to a specific port of entry, which was a distance from where we wanted to stay. We went to the anchorage, beached the dinghy and grabbed a taxi to the town with customs and immigration. Got away with it, but it was a friendly island. Some places are pretty strict with consequences of messing up their rules, including banning one for life.


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## JohnT777 (Jul 2, 2018)

I know I can't just board a plain and fly to Germany , I'd need a passport at least. If I want to stay a while like a couple weeks or more I need a visa , If I come on a boat and want to anchor at a marina for a few weeks is it the same?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Yes, everyone aboard needs to clear through customs and immigration, just like arriving on a plane. Passports, visas, etc, all applicable. It's the procedures to do it that are different. Arriving by boat means the vessel needs to be cleared in as well, which generally means it needs to be nationally registered in your home country. More paperwork, more fees.

Bottom line is you can not just stop by on a boat.


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## dadio917 (Apr 4, 2011)

Depends on country. Ones I've sailed into require you to fly a yellow quarantine burgee until checked in. The captain goes ashore (although usually crew "sneaks in as well because, hey, they've been at sea) with boat docs and passports to present to immigration and customs to get visas for crew and register the boat. Sometimes the boat needs to be searched and checked out. In New Zealand anything that even resembled plant life was confiscated including rice, quinoa and popcorn. There is a bit of a reverse situation when you leave just as if you flew into a country. Passports must be stamped for exit. The US is one of the worst to come into now with armed guys searching the boat very seriously. Canada was the easiest.

I once was on a plane that tried but couldn't land in Tonga because of weather, but didn't have fuel to get back to New Zealand. The plane was diverted to Samoa to an auxiliary runway for refueling. Though we were there for some hours and a boarding stair was in place, passengers could not get off the plane as there was not process there to check people in.

So no, you can't just get off your boat legally.


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## JohnT777 (Jul 2, 2018)

How about Tuvalu? Has anyone sailed there? As to the visa process. What do you do when you arrive at port? I know you call in on the radio , get cleared and then you anchor or go into a slip or something but what then?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

You need to do your research.
Ideas and advise from net forums are good, but.....you need to do your own research.
It aint rocket science.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Visas are a completely separate thing from the actual clearing in procedure. Though immigration is involved in both, you must have your visa in hand and approved *before* you enter some countries. The penalties can be quite stiff if you don't.
Basically, it all revolves around what country you are from and what countries require a visa for that country's citizens. For instance, An American can enter and stay in Grenada for a specified amount of time before renewing their permission to be there without any visa. For a boat, it is a monthly renewal and I think every 6 months for US citizens. I believe it is similar for all EU citizens and Canadians. However, if you are from Turkey you cannot enter Grenada, by boat or plane, without a pre-issued visa. You couldn't even get off a boat and go directly to the airport and depart immediately by plane, or vice versa. 
I've heard some real horror stories for EU citizens and other countries seeking to get a visa for the US, but I'm sure those folks will step up and give you first-hand reports on that
Should you ever be apprehended breaking the laws of a foreign country, do not for a second imagine the laws of that country will be as fair or just as your country. It could cost you everything you have, including the boat, and even your freedom for many years, to do as you have questioned above, in many countries of the world.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Steps 
Read noonsite first for each country. Then google that country to make sure rules haven’t changed. If crew aren’t from your country make sure of the rules for them. 

Make sure everyone on the boat has a current, active passport. Put them with ships papers. 

Sail to destination. Many require you do not enter a slip or disembark in anyway prior to clearing. Some allow you to tie up on a pier they have next to customs and immigration. Some require you anchor and dinghy in. Fly Q (yellow) flag while at anchor.

Usually just the captain comes in carrying ships papers (ships documentation and clearance out from last port of call-Antigua wanted clearance out from US even though boat is US flagged) and everyone’s passports.

Pay all fees after filling out forms on their computer (French) or paper (everyone else) and get passports stamped and cruising permit for boat and well as clearance. If you know where you are going worthwhile to download forms before leaving so they can be filled out on the boat.

Return to boat and take down Q then put up curtesy flag for the country you’re visiting. Worthwhile to get them on Internet before leaving.

Virtually all charts show ports of entry. Make one your first stop. Usually easier. 

Remember to clear out. Next country may not let you in if you haven’t cleared out of the last one you were in.

Easy peasy


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh forgot to mention you may have to call or radio if you arrive and their offices aren’t open. Check their rules. Make sure you have those phone numbers or other contact information. If you don’t know stay on the boat until you sort it out. Not worth the risk to mess with these people.

Have found great variations between offices in same country. Tends to be more pleasant and easier if you can stay away from offices serving cruise ships and airports.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound;205157784
Remember to clear out. Next country may not let you in if you haven't cleared out of the last one you were in.
Easy peasy[/QUOTE said:


> Just a lil word on this. Here in the Caribbean, they will not allow you entry into a country if they find out you once did not clear out. After TS Matthew we had to wait two days before we could clear out and head south even though we had pressing business elsewhere. Customs and immigration were nowhere to be found and we called every number possible, even a lighthouse.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Not all countries require exit zarpe to enter
So....do your research


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## Topspin (Jan 4, 2019)

And surely you don´t want to do anything like this if you ever want to enter Australia by boat. 
Without a visa you are in deep trouble and may face significant legal problems. 

-Richard


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

It varies from filling out a one page form on a dusty computer in a beach bar and getting the bar maid to stamp the form to applying for visas at the consulate well in advance. Captain only allowed ashore. Captain needs to be reasonably well dressed preferably with a collared shirt. Visit the 1st official in his office, fill out forms get chit for payment, go to bank on opposite side of town, pay, get receipt, return to 1st office show receipt, get document stamped and proceed to second office in different part of town. This process is repeated 3 or 4 times. At any point any official can put the process on hold and demand that the boat be inspected by the port doctor for cholera. 

The first happens in Martinique the second in Isle de Margarita Venezuela.

No you very definitely can not just drop anchor go ashore and restock the larder. Although there are some arcane rules governing situations where a captain can go ashore and conduct "urgent ship's business" without first going through customs and immigration. I wish you the best of luck in using that to convince US Border Control officials that what you did was legal in maritime law. 

Recently a charter boat pulled into Jolly harbor after official hours. The entire crew went ashore for a meal. That cost the captain a $ 5,000 US fine.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Some countries require just the Captain to go ashore first, others require the entire crew to appear with their passports.

One would think immigration would want to see the crew member was the same person on the passport and that everyone was accounted for. But many do not. Perhaps there is a liability for requiring the boat be vacated at anchor, but I think it's probably because they're more interested in the fees than the security.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Perhaps there is a liability for requiring the boat be vacated at anchor


Liability is wholly an American concept when it comes to officials, governments, and companies around the world.
If a Caribbean government placed mooring buoy in a national park breaks and results in thousands of dollars damage to your boat and perhaps others, the government takes zero liability in the Eastern Caribbean. If you kill yourself coming back from dinner or the bar (blood alcohol content level of no concern at all), on an unlit piling, not only will the local government not care in the slightest, they will not even light the piling to avoid future possible fatalities, which seem to happen at least several times every 5 years.
I'm sorry, but once you have cut that umbilical to the good old US of A, you have pretty much lost any chance of blaming others for your actions and collecting big time in a court of cough, cough, excuse me, law.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The above also involves crew and visitors if you take them country to country or they have sailed in with you. It’s real important that your crew list is up to date. By this I mean if they fly out or boat out they’ve cleared out and have been taken off your crew list appropriately. I make sure I have an understanding for that country and the next so know what paperwork I’ll need to show for the boat to leave one country and enter the next. 
You hear bad stories of a person who flew in to crew, then went to another boat cruises that country for a week then went to another country cruised there then flew out. Or another where person leaves the boat but stays on land for awhile but boat leaves before crew goes back home. Officials want to know everyone who you brought in leaves. Make sure you can prove that has occurred or will occur or is no longer your responsibility as captain.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

JohnT777 said:


> How about Tuvalu? Has anyone sailed there? As to the visa process. What do you do when you arrive at port? I know you call in on the radio , get cleared and then you anchor or go into a slip or something but what then?


The problem with Tuvalu is you need to speak Tuvaluian because they only speak that on the VHF and consider it an insult if you cant just say a few words of Tuvaluian. I learned it.

The USA has specific laws: All people arriving by boat need to have a B1B2 Visa before arriving.
Any vessel approaching the USA coast *must* clear in even if you do not intend to stop, unless you are in a recognised shipping lane or clear navigation line. So you cant just drop the anchor in some bay, or even sail through some bay. You must clear in first in a designated Port of Entry.

Mark


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

RegisteredUser said:


> You need to do your research.
> Ideas and advise from net forums are good, but.....you need to do your own research.
> It aint rocket science.


This is his research... but go for the official procedures instead and they can all be found online.

Countries with a coastline on international waters will have designated ports of entry.... where the boat and the occupants need to "clear in".

Bermuda for example monitors the waters around the island by radar and radio. You also need to clear through Bermuda Harbor Radio.

Most ports set up for private vessels rely on the captain abiding the legal protocols. Some ports are not POEs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> Liability is wholly an American concept when it comes to officials, governments, and companies around the world.......


I'm very well familiar. In fact, I find the simple value of human life is often well below the US, driven by a tougher lifestyle. Some simply have less to live for. In many ways, I like the primitive self-reliant nature of it all. Everyone likes the lack of litigious money whores, who sue for spilling their own hot coffee on themselves.

On the other hand, it's quite obvious these islands share one similarity with the US. They just want the money. Customs fee, mooring fees or kiteboard fees. Gimme the cash, don't care if you hurt yourself.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

JohnT777 said:


> I know you can't just go to a foreign country without a visa etc. Is it different if you're on a boat and want to anchor and take on supplies? Say I wanted to sail to the US from the UK. Could I just pull into a harbor after getting permission and just anchor , come ashore and get supplies , stay a while? How does that work?


In 12 years we have sailed into something like 47 different countries. The only one we needed a visa for was Russia and now if we return to Turkey we would need one there also.

If you have one of those golden passports - USA - it is recognized by most countries and you get an automatic 90 days.

But as most have said DO YOUR RESEARCH - when we sailed all the way around the Black Sea we visited Turkey (we had residence), Georgia, Russia, Ukraine, and Bulgaria. We started planning in February and had it planned out by March and found we only needed one visa and that was Russia. We applied for and got our Russian visa in April and set then set sail.

But in that research we did talk to the Russians and US Embassy about the Crimea and both said do not do enter unless you want a bunch of legal problems once you leave. Research works.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

By the way entering a foreign port regardless of where or if it the first port of call in the country or not. We always call on channel 16 unless the cruising guide says otherwise. We only did not do it once and I got reamed out by the port capt. 

Now that does not mean they will answer and 80%+ they will NOT. We just keep calling and go in. They do hear you. In Albania we went in to one port and called and called and when we entered there were folks standing on the dock to catch our lines. Later we hired a taxi to take us to an ancient town nearby. Turns out the driver was a tug boat captain and he said the whole harbor heard you call many times. Just do what is right each and every time and if they answer great if not so be it.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Enter Bermuda with a flare gun, standard equipment in the US. But in Bermuda that's a firearm, they will not be happy to see it.

Or any part of French Polynesia, IIRC you *must* either post bond or buy an airline ticket back to your homeland, before you can be granted entry? And of course, buy it in local currency, paying the conversion fee, and losing that fee again when you cashier the ticket if you do sail back out.

In some parts of the Islamic world, entering with liquor of any kind, or condoms, or Playboy magazine, would get you arrested not so long ago. They're a bit more liberal today. But then again...I think it is Barbuda? One of the islands, you WILL be arrested for simply wearing camo clothing of any sort, despite it being popular and totally legal in most of the rest of the world.

No, this isn't 1950 anymore. Cannibals are now the least of your worries, and everything else is.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Enter Bermuda with a flare gun, standard equipment in the US. But in Bermuda that's a firearm, they will not be happy to see it......


You must declare a flare gun (spearguns too) in Bermuda, as a firearm. They will either impound it, until your departure, or seal it inside it's case onboard. Perhaps that annoys them, but it is done.

I'm guessing the potential to easily convert a flare gun into a 12 gauge shot gun pistol must be the concern (a remarkably unsafe way to create a firearm). The flare itself is certainly no more dangerous than a handheld aerial flare, without the flare gun.

Your advice to know what you're getting yourself into is spot on. The best way to get through customs and immigration is to be respectful, which includes knowing and following their rules.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The typical conversion is to .410/.45, not 12 gauge.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chuck5499 said:


> By the way entering a foreign port regardless of where or if it the first port of call in the country or not. We always call on channel 16 unless the cruising guide says otherwise. We only did not do it once and I got reamed out by the port capt.
> 
> Now that does not mean they will answer and 80%+ they will NOT. We just keep calling and go in. They do hear you. In Albania we went in to one port and called and called and when we entered there were folks standing on the dock to catch our lines. Later we hired a taxi to take us to an ancient town nearby. Turns out the driver was a tug boat captain and he said the whole harbor heard you call many times. Just do what is right each and every time and if they answer great if not so be it.


Who do you call on Channel 16?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minne-
I think Bermuda follows the same definition of "firearm" that NYC does. Anything that can fire a projectile used "stored energy" of any kind, is a firearm. Makes it kinda simple. Pole spears and perhaps Hawaiian slings being exempted. 
But there is one fellow who put up a video of what happens when you put a conventional 12g shell in an Olin flare pistol. (Hint: You'd be called "One eyed Lefty" if you were lucky.) The conversions that insert a stainless steel sleeve and then a smaller cartridge would be somewhat safer, perhaps. Of limited use--and still likely to ruin your travel plans if found.
But at least that kind of thing is to be expected. Getting arrested because you're wearing a pair of army surplus camo shorts or raingear...you know, who would even think to ask?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Most of the tube inserts are aluminum.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> Enter Bermuda with a flare gun, standard equipment in the US. But in Bermuda that's a firearm, they will not be happy to see it.
> 
> Or any part of French Polynesia, IIRC you *must* either post bond or buy an airline ticket back to your homeland, before you can be granted entry? And of course, buy it in local currency, paying the conversion fee, and losing that fee again when you cashier the ticket if you do sail back out.
> 
> ...


In Tunisia as we were checking out we got a full inspection and they wanted to see our flares - had flare gun and that did not go well - we got a lecture on next time you declare this -- this was after our 2nd winter in Tunisia -

Never had an issue with any liquor in any Islamic country we have visited-- and some make fairly decent wine -

Yea there are a couple of islands in the Carib where camo clothes are not permitted.

Overall never really had any issues in any of the 47+ different countries we have sailed into --


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Who do you call on Channel 16?


Normally we start with the Port Captain, then try the Harbor Master, then the Port Police then if there is a marina the marina -


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RegisteredUser said:


> The typical conversion is to .410/.45, not 12 gauge.


I'm sure it's done. I don't know about typical. I don't personally know anyone who has a conversion of any kind.

I have a 25mm metal flare gun, for which the manufacturer makes a metal 12g conversion tube. West Marine sells the conversion tube. It's intent, of course, is to be able to use the smaller, cheaper 12g flares, but you've instantly got a 12g handgun. That's the (unsafe) conversion I've heard of most, but still don't personally know anyone to have admitted to it. All my aerial flares are solas 25mm. Expensive bastards. No conversion.

Our flareguns are single action, which requires the hammer to be cocked, in order to fire. If using one for self defense, it would be remarkable poor. If you're ready to shoot someone, you have to do so like a wild west gun fighter, **** and fire. I am personally opposed to ever pointing a gun at someone, unless you plan to immediately shoot them, but thinking of how cheap the trigger and shear are on a flare gun would scare the crap out of me to have the hammer drawn and pointed at anything I didn't immediately want a hole in. Including the hull of the boat, while it was being loaded.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Those tubes you are familiar with wont take a 12g shotgun shell.
There is a built up ridge inside...for that reason.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

This isnt a gun thread... and I dont even know if we do gun threads here so beware I might have to close it down if it becomes gunish untill I can confirm the forum rules. 


Having been in the army as a machine gun platoon commander I can affirm I have shot just about everything available at that time in the dim dark past.

Conversion tubes (etc) would be extreemely dangerous imho because though the barrel might survive a few shots what may well not survive one shot is the back blast to the pin, hammer, trigger, handgrip.

Remember, the back blast in a normal semi auto gun provieds the energy to work the whole action as well as give a hefty kick.


I am currently holding my Orion orange plastic flare gun:
There is no lock holding the barrel down, either during firing, before, or after firing.
The hinge holding the barrel to the action is plastic.
The metal plate at the rear of the chamber is cheap pressed metal held on by a half turn bend.
between the back of the chamber and the forward plate of the firing pin has a clear air space between them. Gas *must* vent through there when fired. (A revolvers active chamber is sealed at the back)
Below the firing pin the trigger has a long vertical slot where gas will eject backwards over the back of the hand.

So whilst they may be "safe" for firing specific cartridges, flares, they would be unsafe for anything more powerful.
When I say "safe" I mean, the standard of safety for emergency equipment is much lower than recreational use. In an emergency its better to have some flare and a person with a slightly burned hand that not. Similar to hand held flares... or indeed ships with lifeboats that launch 50 feet in the air with a terrified crew inside.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The popular conversions are using old euro flare pistols...heavily built 26.5mm...with tube for 410/45.

The plastic pistols...are plastic.

The euro pistols do not float...keeping this marine oriented...:grin


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## JohnT777 (Jul 2, 2018)

I imagine you could just machine a 12 gauge pistol that looks like a flair gun if you were of a mind to.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh dear, building your own unregistered weapon. Another great way to get arrested at the first border you try to cross.

No matter how clever or original you think you may be, customs teams have spent decades learning how to find contraband, and busting people for it. And the only thing worse than "I didn't know that was contraband" is having them find something that is obviously trying to be smuggled in illegally. One way or the other.

In some places I'm told they routinely drop a diver under some boats--because so many clever people have been attaching things to the keel, or compartment in it. You're dealing with full time professionals, and they get extra points for every criminal they bust.

Don't like their rules? Don't go there. Easy. Plenty of other places to see in the world. Most of which will quickly arrest tourists with guns.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

JohnT777 said:


> I imagine you could just machine a 12 gauge pistol that looks like a flair gun if you were of a mind to.


And have the recoil break your wrist first time you fire it. 
Even .410 gauge has too much blowback for the locking mechanism of the European flare pistols.

Be careful when entering other countries. Follow the rules and instructions or you may find yourself facing very unfriendly officials who had enough of nonsense tourists and like to teach you a valuable lesson in respect for their rules.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

When you do the math on firearms and cruising abroad, it is just not worth it to carry one. 

The odds of needing to defend yourself at all (much less escalating to a need for lethal force) are astronomically low as many cruisers more experienced than I will attest. 

The risk involved in post-shot consequences are astronomically high. You will likely:
-Have to explain the dead body, or wounded local, in a legal system that doesn't view self defense quite the way you had hoped for. 
-Render aid to the gravely wounded guy laying in your cockpit that just doesn't seem willing to expire. 
-Explain the clearly prohibited fiream that you smuggled in. 
-If no kill, explain to local authorities the shot that was reported, since someone will hear it, or the guy you shot at to scare, or just missed will be motivated to rat you out. 
-Find a hospital to rebuild your hand and face after that clever improvised firearm malfunctioned.
-Get a new boat because yours was seized. (after your sentence is served, or you successfully flee prosecution)
--Make a hobby of studying extradition agreements relative to the jusrisdiction you fled.
-Explain to your insurance company that the boat was seized (do they even cover that?)

You are far better of with a deliberate, layered deterrence and securty plan that includes situational awareness, lighting, signals, anti-tamper/locks, and a crew discussion and rehearsal about responding to an intruder.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

PhilCarlson said:


> You are far better of with a deliberate, layered deterrence and securty plan that includes situational awareness, lighting, signals, anti-tamper/locks, and a crew discussion and rehearsal about responding to an intruder.


What???????????? Instead of bravado???????????????????

.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Do I detect sarcasm from our socially evolved Australian moderator? Between this and an earlier remark on Don's thread, it kinda sounds like you are trying to bait a response. OK, I'll bite. 

My preferred response to an intruder aboard (that I didn't detail above) would be to bounce 12ga beanbags, rubber buckshot, and pepper rounds off them until the perpetrator's behavior is suitably modified. The last round in the magazine is 00 buck, just in case their behavior isn't suitably modified. That's not bravado, that's a reasoned escalation of force in the face of a threat to personal safety. But as I said (and as you know), the consequences in most jurisdictions tip the cost/benefit in a catastrophically unfavorable direction.

But in US waters, particularly Florida; Can you image if Don had greeted his visitor shotgun in hand/ The guy would have paddled off getting peppered with beanbags rubber buckshot. The police would have responded and had a good laugh (sub-lethal ammunition makes their jobs a lot easier; it's like shooting someone with a BB gun), then filed a BOLO for the guy with green dye marks and bruises all over his back. Meanwhile at the bad guys hideout the conversation might go like "hey, lets go steal an outboard!" "OK, but we're not going to Don's marina, I got shot at!" 

Back to the no firearms scenario, I'd likely charge up on deck and confront the intruder. Facing a 240 pound, buck-naked bald man, wielding a machete, and roaring in anger with eloquent profanity if nothing else, would give them pause. It's awkward to fight naked, but the dirty little secret is that almost no-one wants to fight a large, apparently insane naked man. 

Maybe that's bravado, but I'd totally win.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The people who talk funny down there use boomerangs.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

RegisteredUser said:


> The people who talk funny down there use boomerangs.


CRIKEY! You're right!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

My dad gave me a 'rang when i was a wee lad, but i never mastered it.
Now...lets talk frisbee... nobody was safe from me


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Boomerangs were toys for kids.

How dumb do you think people were to throw a stick in that direction -- > to kill an animal sitting over there <--?

The real art of the world's first use of an air foil was the surfaces of the throwing stick that made it go dead straight.

:grin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_stick


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Mark, here is boomerang use 101 for you.


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