# Harken Battcars System



## bmoverbay (Sep 11, 2007)

Has anyone had any experience with the Harken Battcars system, specifically,

1) Is it really easier to get a fully batten main up a 55' stick? I am not getting any younger and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to get the main up the last 1/3 of the way?

2) Is it easier to reef and are there additional reefing points?

3) In a reefing situation, how does one tie the sail to the boom to keep it under control in a blow?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Regards,
bmoverbay


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, Harken Battcars can make raising, lowering, and reefing the sails much easier. They're much lower friction than regular slugs.

Harken Battcars have no effect on how many reefing points your sail has... if you need more, talk to your sailmaker. Generally, any more than three is both unusual and a royal PITA, and adds a lot of unnecessary weight aloft. If you need to have three reefs, make sure they're spaced out properly to handle the conditions you expect to sail in. 

If you have a two-line reefing system with lazy jacks, you really don't need to tie the sail to the boom through the reefing points, unless you're going to be sailing with the reef in for an extended period of time. BTW, I generally don't recommend tying the reefing points around the boom, but just around the sail on a loose-footed sail, since it makes it less likely that you'll tear the sail apart if you forget to remove the reefing point lines.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Donlt know whqat you have now but if its slugs, the difference you will find to be remarkable. There are three types of Battcars from which to choose depending upon loads commony expressed as boat size - go as large as you can given that boat size is a poor surrogate to determine load. also, when selecting which type cars, pay attention to the stack height or you will be doing lots of climbing to reach the headboard unless you also go with a split track system.


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## ArgleBargle (Jan 8, 2007)

does anyone have any opinions on which is better: Harken Battcar or Strong Track? and if one is better, why?

thanks


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

don't know about the other brands but can tell you from experience that Harken's customer service can't be beat


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

I am going to use them myself. I am using North to supply the 3DL sails and it was recommended that I upgrade to the Harken Batt Car system. It is actually a DIY install if you work with the sail maker or in case of pre-existing sails that you get the right load cars for it ... It works with full battens which my 3DLs will be...

Hopefully that helps with your decision making process... I won't be installing it until OCT due to budget issues but I will gladly post about the experience ...


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I have the Strong Track and am very pleased with it. The big advantage I see is it has no bearings or other moving parts. Not sure, but I believe it's cheaper as well.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The StrongTrack system is pretty well regarded and as PBZ has pointed out has no moving parts to fail and is a good deal less expensive than a full BattCar system. IIRC, it also results in less weight aloft, since the track is made of UHMWPE, rather than the aluminum used by Harken.


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## svsirius (Jan 14, 2007)

bmoverbay said:


> Has anyone had any experience with the Harken Battcars system, specifically,
> 
> 1) Is it really easier to get a fully batten main up a 55' stick? I am not getting any younger and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to get the main up the last 1/3 of the way?
> 
> ...


We have battcars on our Moody 47 full batten main w/ a 60 ft hoist. In answer to your questions

1] Yes it is easier to raise the main
2] Yes it is easier to reef and lower the main on almost any point of sail. We have reefed sailing over 130 degrees off the wind. We did not add or subtract reef points cause of the battcars
3] We *never *tie the sail to the boom. We do have a loose footed main that we tie around itself. If you tie the sail to the boom it can rip if the ties are too tight or the heights are wrong. Even if you have a sail that is attached to the boom there should be slots in the foot for the reef ties to pass.
4] Battcars to require some maintenance - you need to wash out the cars every so often and lube the track. We use spray McLube [Harken likes it]. It keeps everything rolling smoothly.

FWIW and IMHO comparing to Strong track. I think depending on your requirements both could work. Battcars [or other ball bearing track cars] are a more sophisticated solution that does provide less friction so therefore some sail handling benefits over the Strong. However the Strong track is significantly less expensive and is significantly better than slides etc. I'm not sure what the upper limit is for a strong track system but you might be getting close. Also if you have a full batten main then the loading might make the Harken solution worth it.

I would do battcars again my only caution is the system is sized on square footage of your main. If you are close to an upper limit go up one size.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

We don't have major problems with rasing or lowering the main on our C36, but since I'm looking into new sails I've considered including one of the mainsail handling systems. 

The disadvantage I've read about with the Harken system is that they stack pretty high leaving increased windage vs. traditional slugs. Probably not an issue for a lot of folks but maybe a consideration for those that might find themselves in truly serious weather.

I'm not sure what the downside of the Tides system might be.

The option I'd like to find out more about is the Ronstan batt slides. The are basically slugs with ball bearing tracks. They are used with the exisiting sail track so the ball bearings are only on one side but it looks like they should keep things from binding and wouldn't add very much weight aloft at all.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

midlifesailor said:


> The disadvantage I've read about with the Harken system is that they stack pretty high leaving increased windage vs. traditional slugs. Probably not an issue for a lot of folks but maybe a consideration for those that might find themselves in truly serious weather.


I have Harken Batcars paired with a Doyle Stakpac and, yes the Batcars do stack higher than I would like. I don't personally have a problem because I am tall and can just reach the headboard but most others that sail on my boat have to climb the halyard winches to reach the headboard.

As far as the implications for serious weather, the Stakpac zips right up and leaves only the tip of the headboard exposed so I don't have a problem there. The heavy weather implication that scares me just a little is the ease with which the wind can hoist the sail by itself and if your heaving to in a serious blow, be sure to tie a line around the sail to stop it going back up the mast!! (or zip the stakpac if you have the courage to be on deck long enough)

And I agree that it does influence reefing inasmuch as the Batcars don't stick when they're under pressure. And with the Stakpac, I never tie the bunt of the sail up, it lays between the lazy jacks and has never presented a problem. Shaking out a reef is also easier for smaller, less strong crew because of the ease with which the sail is hoisted.

I have no experience with Strong Tack but I would be very reluctant to swap Batcars with anything else.

Andre


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## svsirius (Jan 14, 2007)

midlifesailor said:


> We don't have major problems with rasing or lowering the main on our C36, but since I'm looking into new sails I've considered including one of the mainsail handling systems.
> 
> The disadvantage I've read about with the Harken system is that they stack pretty high leaving increased windage vs. traditional slugs. Probably not an issue for a lot of folks but maybe a consideration for those that might find themselves in truly serious weather.
> 
> I'm not sure what the downside of the Tides system might be.


On a CS 36 the strong track will work just fine. You are not crossing oceans with the boat and the main is not that big. Recommended the Strong track to a friend who had a Sabre 362 and he was very happy.

But it's not the same as Harken Battcars -- but odds are you don't need them. Once your main gets bigger and you are really loading up the cars is when it shines. Regarding windage - me thinks the delta is insignificant. If you have a dodger that is way way more windage right there.

Secondly I have never had an issue with the height but then I can't reach the boom anyway without some height assist from the granny bars. We reef with a two line system [on purpose less chafe] so just pull down the luff and leech and never go forward till it's safe. We were cruising for about 2 yrs and it was never an issue.


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## bmoverbay (Sep 11, 2007)

*Can the Doyle Stakpac work in conjunction with Battcars*

Harken recommends their Lazy Jack system. Can the Doyle Stakpac be used in lieu of the Harken system and/or does the Harken system have as neat a zip-up enclosure as the Doyle Stakpac. One other question, for those who have retrofitted to the Harken Battcars, would you mind providing us with a ball park estimate of the cost? The debate is retrofit our fully batten main with Dutchman to in-mast furling or to a Batttcar system with lazy jacks. Thank you for your ongoing help with all of this.
bmoverbay
Our Water View, C380


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

bmoverbay said:


> Harken recommends their Lazy Jack system. Can the Doyle Stakpac be used in lieu of the Harken system and/or does the Harken system have as neat a zip-up enclosure as the Doyle Stakpac. One other question, for those who have retrofitted to the Harken Battcars, would you mind providing us with a ball park estimate of the cost? The debate is retrofit our fully batten main with Dutchman to in-mast furling or to a Batttcar system with lazy jacks. Thank you for your ongoing help with all of this.
> bmoverbay
> Our Water View, C380


The Stakpac and similar systems really are just lazy-jacks with an integral sailcover, so there is no reason they would not be compatable with the Harken batt cars.

Personally, I'd prefer the batt cars to in mast furling and its certainly a less expensive option.


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## svsirius (Jan 14, 2007)

Personally I would chose either the Battcar solution or in boom furling. In boom furling gives you better sail shape etc than in mast. Also if you have a furler issue you can still drop the main.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

When I checked last year, it would have cost me approx $25,000 to convert by 41 ft'er to a boom furler including recutting the main. Although a but off-topic, I'd be interested if anyone has done it for much less


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What I generally do with the main halyard, when the mainsail is down, is lead it around the halyard winches on the mast and then snug it up. There is no way that the main sail can be raised without human intervention that way. 



Omatako said:


> As far as the implications for serious weather, the Stakpac zips right up and leaves only the tip of the headboard exposed so I don't have a problem there. The heavy weather implication that scares me just a little is the ease with which the wind can hoist the sail by itself and if your heaving to in a serious blow, be sure to tie a line around the sail to stop it going back up the mast!! (or zip the stakpac if you have the courage to be on deck long enough)
> 
> And I agree that it does influence reefing inasmuch as the Batcars don't stick when they're under pressure. And with the Stakpac, I never tie the bunt of the sail up, it lays between the lazy jacks and has never presented a problem. Shaking out a reef is also easier for smaller, less strong crew because of the ease with which the sail is hoisted.
> 
> ...


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> What I generally do with the main halyard, when the mainsail is down, is lead it around the halyard winches on the mast and then snug it up. There is no way that the main sail can be raised without human intervention that way.


That's one way of doing it but I found that when I do this, the halyard now lays against the mast (comes down from the masthead to a mast-mounted winch) and it's difficult to stop it slapping and I can't stand that noise . . . . . so then it needs another tie to keep the halyard away from the mast . . . . and frankly a simple tie around the boom/sail is less trouble. 

Andre


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