# Link 2000 Battery Monitor



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

In my ignorance last boat show, I bought a Xantrex RS 2000 for my anticipated switch to 4 8D AGMs on the house bank and a echo charger on a separate starter battery. I say ignorance, because while I bought the SGM module, I didn't realize I also needed a battery monitor to give me drawdown numbers, remaining amp/hours and other good stuff I'll need to know while I'm charging, inverting and drawing at the same time.

This inverter/charger can't use the Link 10 or the other models at the low end; it's a Link 1000 or 2000 or 2000R. I am favouring the 2000 because I can then monitor the state of charge on the start bank separately, or even switch manually to monitor the windlass battery, which will be charged on its own charger on the boat AC circuit. Yes, it's a little "conceptual" at the moment, but can anyone comment on the Link 2000 (what's the "R" model do?) and whether it's worth the $500 ding? Thanks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Val-

The 2000R has a three-stage voltage reg built in to control the alternator output and allow you to monitor the alternator output. I don't think it works with the RS2000. From the Xantrex website:



> *Link 2000 & 2000R*The Link 2000 instrumentation and control panel is designed for use with the Xantrex Freedom series inverter/charger and a dual battery bank. It displays critical DC electrical information for 12 and 24 VDC systems and allows for advanced setup of critical inverter and charger functions.
> The Link 2000R offers the features of the Link 2000 plus a three-stage advanced alternator regulator and alternator output monitoring. (For use only with 12 or 24 volt "P" Field type alternators.)


I think the product you want is the Xantrex System Control Panel. IIRC, the RS2000 has their Xanbus, and the Link series of monitors aren't compatible with it...since they don't support Xanbus. I believe the SCP does the same battery monitoring and use measurements that the Link 2000 does, but also supports some additional features for the higher-end MS and RS inverter/chargers.

If the Xantrex SCP doesn't do the trick, then you might want to look at their battery monitor.

*Edit: After looking at the Xantrex site a bit more, you should be able to use a Link 20, which doesn't require any specific battery charger.  Also, the Xantrex SCP doesn't do battery monitoring, at least from what the manual seems to say. 
*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, the main difference between the Link 20 and the Link 2000 is that the Link 2000 allows you to control the Freedom series inverter/chargers and change the settings of them remotely. Other than that, and the voltage regulation on the Link 2000R, there ain't a whole lot of difference between the two. 

Just curious, who told you that you needed to use a Link 2000R??? 

You'd need a separate monitor for the windlass battery though, since the Link 20 and Link 2000R only do two banks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, the Link 20 is about $330, the XBM is about $220, the Link 10 is about $250 and the Link 2000 is $375 and the Link 2000R is $650. The SCP is about $190.

The Link 20 is definitely the best buy overall, unless you have a Freedom series Inverter/charger, in which case spending the extra $45 to get a Link 2000 makes sense.

*To recap:
*
XBM- 1 battery bank
Link 10 - 1 Battery bank. 
Link 20 - 2 Battery bank
Link 1000 - 1 battery bank and remote control of Freedom series inverter/charger
Link 2000 - 2 battery bank and remote control of Freedom series inverter/charger
Link 2000R - 2 battery bank, 3-stage alternator voltage regulator/alternator monitoring and remote control of Freedom series inverter/charger

SCP - remote control of MS/RS series inverter/charger-no battery monitoring capabilities.

I hope this helps.

SD


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I've been going over the literature and it seems to me that the Link 2000 doesn't have a superset of the Link20.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The only difference that I can see is that the Link X000 series allows you to setup a Freedom inverter/charger, which Valiente doesn't need. So the Link 20 should do the trick for him.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Valiente, Have you spoken with Paul at Ontario Battery? I was very impressed with the products, service and advice I got there.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Val...why not just use a link 10 and monitor your house bank...then get a separate voltmeter readout for your starter batt which is all you really need there. Would save $ and complexity.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Good suggestions, guys. I'll sum up:

1) I purchased an SCM module with the RS-2000. Only later did I realize that while it does a number of clever things, battery state of charge monitoring is not one of them. I don't think the Link 10 works with the RS series.

2) I could monitor both the start and the flooded batteries by putting a switch in the sensor wire, as they are both going to be flooded and charged separately from the house bank, which will be 4 8D AGMs treated as one massive 12 VDC battery.

3) The flooded start battery will be fed by the altenator, but could be switched to take charge from the MPPT hooked to the solar/wind if needed, or even a Honda 2000. But as I see myself running the diesel at least once a week, I don't see this as an issue. The flooded windlass battery will be charged by a 20 amp dedicated charger (the current installed WestMarine one, actually) that will be plugged into the house AC as needed, or into the Honda 2000, which, with an output of 8 amps, can charge the windlass battery relatively quickly.

3) The solar/wind will usually charge the AGM bank, but the RS-2000 can do this via shore power, or the alternator output can be switched if needed. I am attempting to minimize the need to run the engine to recharge when on the hook, although I am happy to do so when running under power. Hence the need both for a fairly elaborate set of switches and isolators/combiners, plus the need for accurate state of charge reporting.

4) I've considered that the easy way to do this is simply to hook a voltmeter to the start and/or the windlass battery, and I haven't ruled this out.

5) I will call Ontario Battery. Thanks for the tip. I wonder if they sell Northstar AGMs...my favoured form factor, because I could fit (after some minor bracing and carpentry) four tall, skinny 8Ds under my saloon steps, 12 inches from the Xantrex and less than 36 inches from my alternator...copper the thickness of one's thumb isn't cheap!

6) If this doesn't work, I'll call Xantrex. It's gratifying in a backwards way to find that you more experienced fellows are finding their technical information a little confusing as am I. Thanks!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

* Any of the Link battery monitors will work with the RS...* but the Link 1000/2000 are more expensive since they have the ability to control Freedom series inverter/charger units. If you want to monitor two banks, get the Link 20, if just one, get the Link 10.

*Think about it for a moment... why would Xantrex make a battery monitor that you couldn't use with any of the chargers it makes? That would be pretty stupid.  The only real difference between the Link 10/20 and the Link 1000/2000 is the fact that the Link 1000/2000 can control the Freedom series of inverter/charger units... which the Link 10/20 can't. *

I am still wondering what idiot told you that you couldn't use the Link 10/20 with the RS2000.

There is nothing in any of the literature or specifications that says you can't use the Link 10/20 with any battery charger. If you had a Freedom series inverter/charger, getting the Link 1000/2000 would make a bit more sense, since it can be used to control the Freedom unit... but there is absolutely no reason you couldn't use the Link 10/20 with the Freedom series units either.


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

I have the link 2000 and a freedom inverter/charger and they work fabulously together, on the hook or at the dock. I still haven't figgered out all that the 2000 can do, and just generally use it for state of charge, amp hr usage and so forth. Overall it's a nice system, but the 2000 can be wacky at times. Starts reading strange voltages and won't turn on the charger. When that happens I have to reset it. I've had it replaced once and still the same, so I suspect it's a design issue or something weird about my wiring. 

Word of warning about aux power (solar/wind): remember to switch it off while charging or it can screw up your charger into thinking the battery is at capacity.
And if you get a voltmeter, remember that there can be as little as 1 volt difference between a battery that's charged and one that's almost dead.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I am still wondering what idiot told you that you couldn't use the Link 10/20 with the RS2000.


Xantrex's website did:
_
"Not recommended for use with Xantrex MS or RS Inverter/Chargers"_

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/237/p/1/pt/5/product.asp

I spoke with the contact provided by Cap'n Hand, however, who suggested that the strangely named "Xamtrex Battery Monitor XBM" (what? no cryptic alphanumeric designation?) would do what I need at half the price of a Link 2000:

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/96/p/1/pt/7/product.asp

So that's what I think I'll get.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

HoffaLives said:


> Word of warning about aux power (solar/wind): remember to switch it off while charging or it can screw up your charger into thinking the battery is at capacity.


Do you mean while charging from shore power, or while charging via alternator? The general plan is to charge the house batteries (a large 4 x 8D bank) via solar and wind, and to charge the starter and the windlass via the alternator. In essence, two charging circuits to separate banks when I'm motor-sailing in the sunshine.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Interesting... I was going by the owner's manual for the Link 20, which doesn't mention it at all. 

BTW, I believe that Hoffa means that you should shut down/disconnect the solar/wind if you're charging the batteries on shore power using the Xantrex. The higher voltage caused by the solar/wind sources can fool the Xantrex into thinking the batteries are actually fully charged when they're not.


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

Either case. If your aux power sources are supplying power while you are also charging it via alternator or shore power, the voltage from the aux source can fool either circuit that the battery is fully charged.

FWIW, I'm not sure how realistic it is to keep a large bank charged with aux sources, unless your A hr consumption is crazy low. And unless you have a great regulator, you still have the problem of improper charging regime for the batteries.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Interesting... I was going by the owner's manual for the Link 20, which doesn't mention it at all.
> 
> BTW, I believe that Hoffa means that you should shut down/disconnect the solar/wind if you're charging the batteries on shore power using the Xantrex. The higher voltage caused by the solar/wind sources can fool the Xantrex into thinking the batteries are actually fully charged when they're not.


I think the logical thing to do in that case might be to simply shut off the inverter, let the sun and wind charge the batts, and power the AC side from the shore. I can switch over when the sun goes down, unless it's windy.

Part of my design ideas is extensive switchability as the key to redundancy: I want to have the ability to vary charge sources based on availability, but not necessarily to combine them, which I agree, on a breezy noon hour, might prove a little rich for the system to absorb along with shore power.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

HoffaLives said:


> Either case. If your aux power sources are supplying power while you are also charging it via alternator or shore power, the voltage from the aux source can fool either circuit that the battery is fully charged.
> 
> FWIW, I'm not sure how realistic it is to keep a large bank charged with aux sources, unless your A hr consumption is crazy low. And unless you have a great regulator, you still have the problem of improper charging regime for the batteries.


I don't know about crazy low, but the 4-5 amp NovaKool fridge, plus the SSB radio and the radar (both occasional) would be the biggest draws. We are installing new water tanks and fixtures that will allow both pressure water and foot pump water...the pressure water use offshore will be rare. I plan on going all LED or flourescents...no incandescents, before we go, and the use of the inverter underway for items such as the microwave will be brief. Some of our entertainment choices will be chargeable, such as laptops and DVD players. These will be charged off the inverter in "prime times" of full sun and/or good wind. Speaking of wind, I am considering a DuoGen or something similar: a wind generator that is also towable in the water...yet another way to avoid using the diesel to make amps. I don't object to the diesel making headway, or making amps during making headway, but making amps at anchor at a fast idle is wasteful and hard on the engine. And loud.

I plan on having the ability to switch either the Honda 2000 or the alternator into the house batteries if needed, but between the combined wind and three, possibly four 130 W solar panels, I suspect I'll be covered. If not, there's always room on the diesel for a bigger Balmar, but as I said, I would prefer to have a large bank I can keep full with one input or another to reduce cycling.

Thanks for this discussion, guys. It's helping me focus on what is a complex way to achieve a simpler life.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good ideas all around Valiente... I like the Duogen units... although there are better windgens...but none quite so versatile.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

Might want to look at this battery monitor as well. A bit less expensive than the Link 20, and does two banks.


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

It's really important to sit down and work out a power budget, and be scrupulous. There are small systems that are running and are easy to forget about, like a sniffer, a propane shut off solenoid, radio, and so forth. To be realistic you should list everything and to be safe double it, and you'll probably be closer to real consumption. And you likely are aware that these alternative power sources very rarely achieve anything close to their rated output. That's why it's important to have the best charging system you can afford. 
And while redundancy is a very good idea, remember that reliability tends to suffer the more complex the system is.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Valiente-
> 
> Might want to look at this battery monitor as well. A bit less expensive than the Link 20, and does two banks.


Nice tip. I thought I'd like the Xantrex unit because it can interface directly with Windows and I can monitor usage via Excel (amp draw of the fridge at 25 C in the saloon versus 33 C in the saloon might be useful information, as well as tracking stand-by versus active radar amp draws).

But this unit has its own attractive features, and manually transferring numbers isn't such a big deal, because once I know the draws of all the usual power-sucking devices, I can complete my energy budget.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Good ideas all around Valiente... I like the Duogen units... although there are better windgens...but none quite so versatile.


There are at least three makers of this type of unit, and I find it interesting that if you see wind as merely a supplemental source of power to solar, alternator and genset, you actually have the opportunity to tow such a unit at night in big air (when the drag would hardly matter), and its output jumps to number 2, right behind the alternator. 11-12 amps at 7 knots (easily achievable in the trades 24/7 in some situations) would _alone_ exceed the normal night watch energy budget (fridge, a few LEDs, a radar on stand-by and the occasional GRIB download).

Add the sun in the daytime and you've got a lot of juice flowing.

I am fortunate in having bracketed steel plates designed to hold davits securely welded onto my transom. I could quite easily have a "tipping" pole trailing behind my stern, well clear of the windvane and the rudder. A small block and tackle on the arch would bring the thing upright again, and ready for wind service.

It's certainly something to think about, particularly as so many distance cruisers appear to be raving about it:

http://www.duogen.co.uk/custcom1.htm


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

Flip a coin... I'm actually planning on getting the Microlog unit and installing it next spring.



Valiente said:


> Nice tip. I thought I'd like the Xantrex unit because it can interface directly with Windows and I can monitor usage via Excel (amp draw of the fridge at 25 C in the saloon versus 33 C in the saloon might be useful information, as well as tracking stand-by versus active radar amp draws).
> 
> But this unit has its own attractive features, and manually transferring numbers isn't such a big deal, because once I know the draws of all the usual power-sucking devices, I can complete my energy budget.


I'm trying to see if I can see a Duogen unit in person... I think Ferris here in Massachusetts might have one I can look at.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

HoffaLives said:


> It's really important to sit down and work out a power budget, and be scrupulous. There are small systems that are running and are easy to forget about, like a sniffer, a propane shut off solenoid, radio, and so forth. To be realistic you should list everything and to be safe double it, and you'll probably be closer to real consumption. And you likely are aware that these alternative power sources very rarely achieve anything close to their rated output. That's why it's important to have the best charging system you can afford.
> And while redundancy is a very good idea, remember that reliability tends to suffer the more complex the system is.


I understand this, and thank you for the reminder. I adhere to the "triple/thirds" rule: triple the amp capacity you expect to use, based on only one-third maximum performance of one's gear.

The complexity thing may be an issue in terms of failure, but I'm hoping that buying quality...and quality spares...plus the ability to test and fix the larger sorts of circuits (wires, switches, solder jobs, etc.) will serve.

Due to a relative immunity to weight kept low, I'm able to have more battery capacity aboard than most, and this is the key to my evil plans: constant charging in one form or another to keep the whole battery system above 80%.

Note that while I've stated I don't care to run the alternator to charge the batteries, if I have to, I'll have to, and then I'll have to consider a built-in genset, or more solar/wind charging capacity. But we don't anticipate running A/C or electrical pressure/hot water or vast freezers or other big draws offshore. If this changes, I would have to rethink it. Right now, it looks as if even under marginal conditions, I will make more amps than I can use. Put me in high latitudes in winter, and this might change, but we plan on being for the most part between 40 N and 40 S.


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## eianm (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Xantrax Link 2000 Battery Monitor*

I want to buy a Xantrax LINK 2000 - if anyone knows of one for sale- please let me know! Please email me at [email protected] 
thanks very much,
Eianm
Sydney , Australia.


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