# Dumbest passage plan since the BOUNTY sailed straight into Sandy?



## JonEisberg

These guys left Newport Friday afternoon on a 43 Nelson Marek they'd bought on eBay for $10K... They were headed for Bermuda, on what was to be the first leg of a trip to Oz, via the Cape of Good Hope and the Southern Ocean...

Here's what they were sailing straight into, as shown on Passageweather on Friday evening... Absolutely mind boggling, how any sane individual could have left with that forecast... The text forecast from NOAA is perhaps even more sobering, featuring "Hurricane force winds, heavy freezing spray, windspeeds to 65 knots, seas to 36 feet", and so on...










They called for Mommy early this morning... Seems somehow fitting, the Coasties plucked them out of the North Atlantic very close to the same spot that RAW FAITH went down... One has to wonder whether these guys, even now, have any clue how lucky they are to be alive...

Coast Guard Rescues Sailors 140 Miles off Nantucket - Western Massachusetts Breaking News and First Warning Weather with WGGB.com ABC 40

There's a thread over on CF that was started prior to their departure, with links to stories in the Newport paper about their prep...

Sailing New England to Australia in February - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

And, in related news, the CG plucked another crew off a trimiran last night, south of Cape Fear...

Those helo crews and rescue swimmers sure are getting plenty of practice lately, courtesy of us yachties...

Coast Guard rescues 4 from damaged sailboat off NC coast | WAVY-TV


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## RTB

Yeah, been worrying about those Aussies for a couple of days. Happy to hear they lived. They are truly lucky to be alive today. Man, I hope they got some good video.... 

Has anyone else ever thought about how the coasties can be successful in almost every rescue? Maybe they lose one here and there, but their batting average is way high. 

Ralph


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## hpeer

I saw the thread title on CF and thought "Dumb!" I never views the thread.

I was in CG aviation, but before the time of the rescue swimmer.

It would be interesting to see how things changed.


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## krisscross

JonEisberg said:


> These guys left Newport Friday afternoon on a 43 Nelson Marek they'd bought on eBay for $10K... They were headed for Bermuda, on what was to be the first leg of a trip to Oz, via the Cape of Good Hope and the Southern Ocean...


That sure sounds like some folks that were on Sailnet recently. Lucky for them they got rescued. That is some wicked weather out there.


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## Mabinogion

Should yachting insurance be compulsory with a significant amount of cover attributable to the rescue services if used?

Yes it would probably put the cost of premiums up, but by how much if every yacht had insurance.

Currently yachting is relatively unencombered by officialdom. I don't mean the type attributable to CG inspections or TSA/Homeland interventions and the like. 

If the yachting fraternity continue to behave in a cavalier fashion expecting the Coasties to rush to their aid when the yachties own actions have been a contributory factor which appears to happen at all levels from VOR down we are not too far away from further legislation.


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## pdqaltair

At the very least I hope the Coasties gave them a nice 2-hour lecture on their incurable stupidity and duty to never go near the water again. Ever.


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## Maine Sail

One word....... DELUSIONAL !


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## JonEisberg

Maine Sail said:


> One word....... DELUSIONAL !


Or, how about... SUICIDAL ?

Great quip from some wag over on SA, sums it up quite neatly... Obviously, a hockey fan:

_"And here's a wrist shot, from Darwin... NO, it's off the post !"_

;-))


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## Minnewaska

I am not a fan of all boaters paying an insurance premium. You already do that in your taxes, which would never go down, if we assumed the expense, otherwise. I am a fan of mandatory training or you pay for your rescue. It wouldn't work perfectly, but I believe it would push the incident level down a bit. I really do believe there are brave dopes that just don't know any better.

I looked up SARSAT response data, which has grown over the last few decades. It combines marine, aviation and land, so I couldn't really tell if the growth was proportional in each area.

As you see the 406Mhz grow exponentially, it replaces the 121.5Mhz, so one would must combine the two in prior years. The gross increase must have something to do with 406Mhz being more identifiable.

I was surprised to see there wasn't a larger overall increase. I was also surprised to see that the number of persons rescued per year has been one side or the other of 2000 since '06. That suggests incident levels are rising, but not rescues. I doubt there are fewer people being rescued per incident, so that would imply a steady number of rescues, while the incident recognition is increasing. 406Mhz technology is better at identifying false alarms, so that may account for the difference. The data combines marine, aviation and land, so it's hard to parse marine incidents. Also fascinating to see the world-wide distribution.

https://www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/sar-statistics


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## Maine Sail

JonEisberg said:


> Or, how about... SUICIDAL ?
> 
> Great quip from some wag over on SA, sums it up quite neatly... Obviously, a hockey fan:
> 
> _"And here's a wrist shot, from Darwin... NO, it's off the post !"_
> 
> ;-))


They were too delusional to even realize they were being suicidal... The chicken / egg thing.....


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## MarkofSeaLife

Not all Australians are as smart as others.


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## RTB

The OP just posted the rescue video on CF. The guys looked good. So did the boat. The dink was still on the foredeck....

Ralph


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## JonEisberg

RTB said:


> The OP just posted the rescue video on CF. The guys looked good. So did the boat. The dink was still on the foredeck....
> 
> Ralph


Looked to me like the leech of the main might have been blown out, lots of fluttering going on back there... Damn, I'd have thought the sails on a $10K 43' raceboat would have been bulletproof, no? ;-)

The younger guy didn't even have foul weather gear on his lower extremities... Yikes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LOWGhB5TY#t=11


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## Maine Sail

The good news is we now have a solid answer to those;

"Can I buy a 10K boat and sail it around the world?" threads......

Seriously, why would you want to mess with the North Atlantic in February...? 

Fail.........!


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## jrd22

Hmmm, perhaps advice to "GO NOW" was taken a wee bit too literally???


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## SimonV

I have not chimed in since the start of this tread, as I am a firm believer in karma. when I left San Francisco in 2008, I left to get on the back of a south moving low. The weather did not play fair and the low stalled and I ended up in the middle of it for a day, no bigee but uncomfortable. Seeing the weather these guys left in you have to ask why? nothing of that weather system said "no worries". As for the rescue and those on here spruiking about cost and danger, First Responders live for this. I am glad they are safe and hope they explain the decision they made.


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## killarney_sailor

It occurred to me that if these guys survived the North Atlantic they would get to South Africa in late fall and be set up to to to Oz in the winter time. Rescue services for the latter are not very good at all. Probably lucky they ended the trip when they did.


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## Maine Sail

When I sit back and think of the utter lack of intelligence one must have to have in order to head off into a blizzard in FEBRUARY, from New England, on a 10K unfamiliar boat, with only one personaboard who actually knows how to sail, I place this lack of intelligence on par with this lady..


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## ccriders

Was she a real blond?
John


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## Maine Sail

ccriders said:


> Was she a real blond?
> John


Don't know, but I suspect the sailors who set off into a blizzard, IN FEBRUARY, in a 10k boat bought of eBay were.....:laugher:laugher


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## capecodda

Whoops, looks like I reposted this one. Mod's can delete my duplicate if they want. I saw Bounty in the title and didn't realize it was about this.

Yea, I couldn't believe this one. The Governor asked everyone to stay off the roads, so I guess they complied with that.

I'm sorry, but the hi-five between the 2 of them made me ill. 

Not just the costs, but risking the lives of my good friends at Cape CG.


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## Maine Sail

capecodda said:


> Whoops, looks like I reposted this one. Mod's can delete my duplicate if they want. I saw Bounty in the title and didn't realize it was about this.
> 
> Yea, I couldn't believe this one. The Governor asked everyone to stay off the roads, so I guess they complied with that.
> 
> I'm sorry, but the hi-five between the 2 of them made me ill.
> 
> Not just the costs, but risking the lives of my good friends at Cape CG.


Some of these cases are not as clear cut but Bounty and this one are completely and utterly offensive and point only to the mental state of the captains, as in, _freaking delusional_....

Don't worry give this 30 seconds or so and someone will be along to _defend_ these imbecilic decisions that put more than just the crew at risk.....


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## tempest

insane

"Initial on-scene weather conditions were nine-foot seas and building, with 40-mph winds. By the time the crew was recovered, conditions had deteriorated to 25-foot seas and winds of nearly 60 mph. Seas are forecasted to build to 34 feet into the evening. The water temperature was 43 degrees and the air temperature was 35 degrees"

Coast Guard rescues father and son from sailboat during winter storm | Coast Guard News


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## hellosailor

Couldn't find the usual "completed sales" citings on eBay for that boat. Maybe someone else can?

I'd be curious to see when it was bought, and what was said about it.

Six feet of snow in Boston...Bermuda sure would sound attractive.(G) Maybe they just forgot, they were coming to Boston during THEIR SUMMER, not ours?


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## miatapaul

hellosailor said:


> Couldn't find the usual "completed sales" citings on eBay for that boat. Maybe someone else can?
> 
> I'd be curious to see when it was bought, and what was said about it.
> 
> Six feet of snow in Boston...Bermuda sure would sound attractive.(G) Maybe they just forgot, they were coming to Boston during THEIR SUMMER, not ours?


Yea, I could not find the listing. I think I remember seeing something like this on Craigslist, but am not sure. Perhaps it was CL (some people use eBay as a generic "on line" purchase thing)


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## TakeFive

miatapaul said:


> Yea, I could not find the listing. I think I remember seeing something like this on Craigslist, but am not sure. Perhaps it was CL (some people use eBay as a generic "on line" purchase thing)


The articles seemed to say something about them spending more time than expected doing repairs/refits. ebay does not leave completed auctions up forever for the general public - maybe it timed out by now. (I think postings are available for a longer time for buyer/seller, but come down sooner for general public.)


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## hellosailor

The completed listings stay up for 90 days, and then you can buy into a professional ebay tool which gives you longer historical access, if you want it.

If the auction was more than 90 days ago, then "bought it on and eBay auction and..." becomes meaningless, since one could refit a sow's ear into a silk purse in 90 days. Whether they did of course is something else again, but it would mean they didn't just buy a boat and go to sea, the way many comments have inferred.


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## Sanduskysailor

Ridiculous idea on this trip. A N/M 43 in good condition was at best poorly suited for the trip. This boat wasn't in good condition and not properly equipped. 

Engine- needed to be thoroughly gone over and trialed. Fuel tank needed to be emptied and cleaned. Hoses replaced. Complete spare package including spare alternator, water pump, impeller, oil, belts, and a case of filters. 4 bank battery inventory- new. Fuel usage of 1 gallon per hour at 7 knots. Tank is 25 gallons so you need to get another 50-75 gallons of new or temporary tankage.

Sails- Look at the size of that main. A bear to handle shorthanded and impossible in any kind of a seaway.

Rig- Nice triple spreader bendy fractional rig with runners. Better make sure runners are in good working order. That mast will have more moves than Madonna when it is reefed and working in a seaway. Probable needs at least 2 new halyards to be safe.

Steering. A hydraulic under deck autopilot is a must with a back up or monitor would be nice. Big bucks to install.

Hull design- looks to have a flat bottom. Not so great for pounding upwind in seaway.

Boat condition- Most likely leaks like a sieve with 15 year old caulking for windows and hatches. Through hulls? Yikes after over 10 years of not being used.

I'm laughing my ass off at those who think they would have made it to Bermuda. There is this funny little thing called the Gulf Stream and its eddies which complicates things enormously. A 25 foot wave in the stream is boat breaking territory. Not exactly the South Pacific swell. It is like sailing in a washing machine with steep square waves, backless waves, rogue waves, and worst of all, short duration wave periods. 

Weather-leaving with a blizzard forecast is insane. Spray freezing temps are a big problem too. Someone on another thread suggested just put some boiling teapot water on the deck and the ice would go away. Yeah sure. I guess those guys on the Deadliest Catch are breaking ice off their decks with sledge hammers are doing it for exercise. The problem with weather at this time of year is that you really can't get a good 3 days forecast as lows come charging out of the Midwest and do all sorts of funny things as they exit the US coast

Thankfully the crew bailed before they got out of range of the CG helos. These guys hadn't got the really bad stuff yet. They were lucky.


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## TakeFive

hellosailor said:


> ...If the auction was more than 90 days ago, then "bought it on and eBay auction and..." becomes meaningless, since one could refit a sow's ear into a silk purse in 90 days. Whether they did of course is something else again, but it would mean they didn't just buy a boat and go to sea, the way many comments have inferred.


Father-son duo delays trip back home to Australia - NewportRI.com l News and information for Newport, Rhode Island: Local State



> I've been here through every storm this winter and I've had about enough...


Maybe not 90 days, but this statement led me to believe that they were here for at least a few weeks. There was another article that made me think they did some substantial work on the boat, but I can't find it now.

I'm not attempting to justify anything they did. Anything they did would have been insufficient. And no amount of work would make up for the ridiculously ill-timed departure. But the "bought it yesterday, sailed away today" narrative is probably not literally accurate.


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## Sanduskysailor

N/M 43 line drawing


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## Sanduskysailor

Check out the pics in the Sedona file. Also the survey. The definition of not ready for prime time

**https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl...86974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994 Nelson Marek 43


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## miatapaul

Sanduskysailor said:


> Check out the pics in the Sedona file. Also the survey. The definition of not ready for prime time
> 
> **https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl...86974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994 Nelson Marek 43


I remember seeing this boat listed. I even emailed and was told the boat had had the outer layer of fiberglass stripped off, and apparently the hull was in much worse shape then the owner was willing to deal with, or some such story just very quickly realized that the boat was basically beyond saving with my skill set.


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## MedSailor

Sanduskysailor said:


> Check out the pics in the Sedona file. Also the survey. The definition of not ready for prime time
> 
> **https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl...86974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994 Nelson Marek 43


Looks like he didn't use enough Elmer's glue and wood filler to prepare for his offshore trip...

Medsailor


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## chall03

Those Aussies eh? (but hey can I remind you one of us won the America's Cup for you) 

This was written before they left, I think it gives you an idea of their approach.



> Jason McGlashan said the plan is to leave Narragansett Bay and sail south to Bermuda, a trip that should take about four days if the wind is right. After a brief stay there, the captain - Jason - and first mate - Reg - will head further south, round the tip of South Africa and take a straight shot home across the Indian Ocean, he said.
> They expect the trip Down Under to take six to eight weeks to complete, depending on the weather.


Once in a lifetime - NewportRI.com l News and information for Newport, Rhode Island: Page One

Perhaps someone should of told them about the Panama Canal?


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## Maine Sail

This is the eBay listing it closed on September 7th....

1994 44 039 Carrol Marine 43 Nelson Marek | eBay

This is what the eBay listing says in BOLD & CAPITALIZED PRINT:

*"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL." *

And this is what they _needed_ to address before leaving????

*"Before they can cast off the autopilot needs to be repaired, the wind generator needs to be erected on the deck and the cabin needs to be straightened out, the McGlashans said."*

Yeah _"straightening out the cabin"_ will matter in a 70 knot washing machine. I suspect they should have waited till after the storm to clean the cabin as the storm was just going to mess it up again... 

And this is one of my favorites:

_*"We've got plenty of food, plenty of booze, good sails and all the safety gear you could ever need, so we're going to be OK,*" Jason told Newport Daily."_

So I'm guessing mother nature disagreed with the "_good sails_" part and "_all the safety gear you could ever need_" meant a big press of the Easy Button......










I especially love the photos towards the bottom, of the engine oil pan submersed in WATER....

https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl/1994+Nelson+Marek+43/_0e8e5b4186974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994%20Nelson%20Marek%2043/Sedona

The mental image I get now of this "_experienced yachtsman_" is that of Bill Murray strapped to the mast in _What About Bob_ "I'm sailing, I'm a sailor, I'm sailing......."










As I read the events that transpired _The Coasties_ were called for well before the $hit even hit the fan. Imagine if it had been more than 20 -30 knots before the multiple failures had occurred, torn sails, failed engine, & multiple charge source failures among others.......... Yeah they were sailing _into_ the $hit storm but had not even gotten there before all these failures occurred. Wow.... My mind again wanders back to the eBay listing...

*"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL." *

As I opined above, simply DELUSIONAL..... When are people going to finally wake up and respect the North Atlantic or actually take their duties as the captain of a vessel seriously.......?

Sadly the entire sailing community gets a black eye over stunts like this... Where was the sensible community, who should have tried to reason with these two, before they cast lines in February.....


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## MedSailor

Maine Sail said:


> Sadly the entire sailing community gets a black eye over stunts like this... Where was the sensible community, who should have tried to reason with these two, before they cast lines in February.....


I've got it all figured out. There should be no requirement to have taken a class or demonstrate any level of seamanship in order to take off on a voyage around the great capes. There SHOULD HOWEVER be a requirement of demonstrated seamanship in order to be able to purchase an EPIRB.

"Yes, with all the extras in your cart that'll be $1,2050.65 and please sir, before we complete this transaction may I see your mariner's card? No card? Well I can sell you the GoPro and carbon-fiber selfie-stick but I'll have to take the 406MHZ EPIRB out of your cart."

MedSailor


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## Maine Sail

MedSailor said:


> I've got it all figured out. There should be no requirement to have taken a class or demonstrate any level of seamanship in order to take off on a voyage around the great capes. There SHOULD HOWEVER be a requirement of demonstrated seamanship in order to be able to purchase an EPIRB.
> 
> "Yes, with all the extras in your cart that'll be $1,2050.65 and please sir, before we complete this transaction may I see your mariner's card? No card? Well I can sell you the GoPro and carbon-fiber selfie-stick but I'll have to take the 406MHZ EPIRB out of your cart."
> 
> MedSailor


I think you forgot the _sat phone_.....


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## Don L

I bet the overcome wouldn't have been much different if these guys had taken off with a better boat. Only 1 way really to fix stupid.


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## miatapaul

Don0190 said:


> I bet the overcome wouldn't have been much different if these guys had taken off with a better boat. Only 1 way really to fix stupid.


Actually it may well have turned out much worse. They could have gotten out of helicopter range, and died waiting for a merchant marine ship to show up. I think they were very lucky to have bought such a bad condition boat.


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## krisscross

JAMESTOWN — Reg and Jason McGlashan spent the weekend getting ready to embark on the journey of a lifetime. In freezing weather, the father-and-son team prepared the 43-foot sailboat “Sedona” for their 8,600-nautical-mile trip back home to Port Macquarie, Australia. Aboard one of the three boats in the water at Conanicut Marina, the McGlashans said they’re looking forward to the warmer environs of Bermuda and beyond.
“We’ve never done anything like this. Dad’s not even a sailor, but he’s a quick study,” said Jason McGlashan in his Australian accent. “We’ve got plenty of food, plenty of booze, good sails and all the safety gear you could ever need, so we’re going to be OK.”
-----------------------------

Yes folks, this is what it takes: buy a cheap, big, project sailboat, get it ready for a trip half way around the world over the weekend, load it up with twinkies and booze, and off you go. Limited experience? Not a problem. Learn as you go. Bad weather? Bah humbug... good weather is for pansies.



Some folks are such optimists. And they usually live through their self created ordeal.


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## JonEisberg

miatapaul said:


> Actually it may well have turned out much worse. They could have gotten out of helicopter range, and died waiting for a merchant marine ship to show up. I think they were very lucky to have bought such a bad condition boat.


Exactly... they were extremely fortunate to abort when and where they did...

Of all the unfathomable decisions made throughout the course of this misadventure, this has to be one of the most senseless:

After their sails were blown out and lowered, they started the engine, and proceeded under power...

_IN THE SAME FREAKIN' DIRECTION, CONTINUING TOWARDS BERMUDA !!!_

UFB...


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## Maine Sail

JonEisberg said:


> Exactly... they were extremely fortunate to abort when and where they did...
> 
> Of all the unfathomable decisions made throughout the course of this misadventure, this has to be one of the most senseless:
> 
> After their sails were blown out and lowered, *they started the engine, and proceeded under power...
> 
> IN THE SAME FREAKIN' DIRECTION, CONTINUING TOWARDS BERMUDA !!!*
> 
> UFB...


If I am not mistaken that boat carried 25 gallons of diesel, barely enough to tuck tail and turn back to re-trace their 150nm's....

Even basic math skills were totally ignored....


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## Jeff_H

Jon, 

Thank you for starting this thread. 

Normally, when I read stories about people abandoning boats, or having a disaster on board, I read them as objectively as I possibly can, trying to figure out what happened and absorb it as a learning experience. I try not to judge the people involved, thinking to myself that I was not out there so I really don't know what was going through their minds and what resources were available to them to avoid whatever disaster they went through. 

But every once and a while I see a case like this one, where there is absolutely no excuse for the kind of irresponsible insanity that this instance is a poster child for. I really can't imagine what those guys were thinking starting off on this harebrained scheme. 

It is inconceivable to me that they could possibly rationalize trying to sail a 20 year old, rode hard, put away wet, full blown, 'we are not joking' race boat around the Cape of Good Hope without storm sails, using old race sails that were beyond their 'use by dates' with only two guys aboard, one of which is not even a sailor. (One minor, and only slightly relevant correction to something said above; this boat was not a fractional rig. It was worse than that; a masthead bendy rig with parallel spreaders. It did not have runners, but does have checkstays, which in some ways are worse. You can usually leave runners on a fractional rig slack during a tack or jibe. Checkstays are not as forgiving. ) 

Some of the articles mentioned that numerous people had lectured them before they left that their plan was totally unrealistic. They themselves mentioned all of the people who would stop them on the streets, at the lcoal West Marine, and in grocery stores who had suggested going through the Caribbean to the Panama Canal and following the tradewinds west as a safer and possibly faster route. 

One article said that before they left, the US Coast Guard had issued a written advisory directly to them that said in no uncertain terms that the conditions were unsafe for them to be out there, and that their vessel was ill-suited for this purpose. 

A person who had been hired to work on the boat, helping them prep for the trip, said that he observed areas of delamination in the stern compartment where he was working on the auto-pilot. There was some mention in one editorial that the reason the price was so cheap was that there was pretty extensive delamination in the hull. 

The only explanation that I saw for their departure date (and it seemed like speculation) was a mention that they were close to their 90 days before they would have to pay sales tax, and that the son(skipper) only had so many days off from work. 

And while this exceeds much of the hubris that I have seen on sailing forums over the years, it does not exceed some of the crazier posts and claims that I have read. If there is a lesson here, hubris destroys boats and in the absence of a rescue crew risking their own lived, it also kills people. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Maine Sail

Excellent post Jeff!

I know I have posted this before but I believe it is still very relevant..

To me this is a sad example of folks not getting the psychological treatment they probably should.

Sadly families & friends (the father in this case) enable this delusional behavior and in turn fuel wheever the underlying disorder is that detaches these individuals from REALITY. Sometimes it is as bad as bipolar disorder and sometimes it is just Forest Gump syndrome. All I know is these two were completely and utterly delusional or lower than Forest Gump on the intelligence totem pole..

I see this story as not much different than the _delusional arrogance/ignorance_ of the owner / builder of Raw Faith or Michael Calabrese the guy who anchored his Hunter on a lee shore during a hurricane, was arrested, then proceeded to take a crap in the police car.

IMHO it was the arrogant delusions of Robin Walbridge that actually killed others and that takes it to a whole other level. It is sad to me that folks like this are not getting the mental and psychological help they need and because of that they put other people in harms way.

If it is true that the USCG advised them not to go, and they ignored that advice, then there is surely no help for people like this. It really makes you afraid to even drive on the roads knowing there are people this blissfully ignorant out there.

The USCG actually stopped Raw Faith from going to sea numerous times but in the end the arrogant and delusional owner finally succeeded in sinking her.

I guess there is not all that much we can really do but sit back and watch it unfold like a bad soap opera...

Where this hits home for me???

Last summer I had a guy whom I felt the exact same way about. He was completely unfit, unprepared and ill equipped for an off shore voyage.

He had just purchased the boat from one of my customers and I flat out told him the vessel was in NO SHAPE for an off shore voyage and that he was risking his life making this voyage without some serious work needing to be done to the vessel. I was about as blunt as can be and did not candy coat it for him. I felt it my minimal duty. He was delusional too right up to the point of absurdity. It was very, very frustrating to watch this guy refuse any other possible option for moving this boat. Like the 10k eBay boat this was a low buck deal and a project boat in the works, but not yet done. The new owner had all the answers but knew none of the questions. It was pretty sad actually...

Long and short he ignored my advice about the vessels condition, the advice of the seller and of others and wound up losing the boat and needing the USCG to rescue him. He like so many _sailors,_ in recent history, and I use the term _sailors_ very, very loosely, simply used the Easy Button to get home.

Sadly there are people out there that really are this blind to REALITY and no matter how hard you try, or how well reasoned your case may be, they are simply too delusional to come back to Earth, let their feet touch down, and feel or grasp reality......

I suspect these recent trends represent more of what our society has become. A society where no one is every allowed to fail, is never told they are wrong, where everyone gets a trophy just for showing up and A through F grades have been tossed out the window to placate and not hurt the poor feelings of anyone.

We have lost touch of OWNERSHIP and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and it is sad, very, very sad...

Prepared? Experienced? Really?

*"The charging units from the motor and our wind generator both failed, causing the auto pilot to not work; then the sails became torn, as I was trying to fix the problems," he wrote. "After that I started to motor. Then, the motor failed, making us dead in the water."*
*
"I came here on New Year's Eve and worked on the boat since. We did have racing sails, but the racing headsails were not used. We had a one-season-old racing main that was in great condition, which we purchased before we left."*

*"After the EPIRB was activated, is when the conditions became very rough," McGlashan wrote. "Most people assume we set off the EPIRB because of the storm. That had nothing to do with it. We were stuck dead in the water unable to move it. It wasn't until the rescue was in full effect that the storm hit. I have had experience in rough conditions but not to the extreme every one has seen on the (Coast Guard) video. Those conditions came on just before the helicopter arrived."*

*"Those conditions came on."*

Actually, those conditions were extremely well predicted.......

_*"The nicest way I can put it, is a bit pissed off after everything I went through to get this to happen," he said of acquiring the boat and planning the journey. "Then, to have so many problems, I got to get my head around it all."*_

And he's pissed off........? It his his damn fault!!! Lack of _ownership_ & personal responsibility runs rampant these days.... Sheesh.....


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## miatapaul

Jeff_H said:


> Jon,
> 
> Thank you for starting this thread.
> 
> Normally, when I read stories about people abandoning boats, or having a disaster on board, I read them as objectively as I possibly can, trying to figure out what happened and absorb it as a learning experience. I try not to judge the people involved, thinking to myself that I was not out there so I really don't know what was going through their minds and what resources were available to them to avoid whatever disaster they went through.
> 
> But every once and a while I see a case like this one, where there is absolutely no excuse for the kind of irresponsible insanity that this instance is a poster child for. I really can't imagine what those guys were thinking starting off on this harebrained scheme.
> 
> It is inconceivable to me that they could possibly rationalize trying to sail a 20 year old, rode hard, put away wet, full blown, 'we are not joking' race boat around the Cape of Good Hope without storm sails, using old race sails that were beyond their 'use by dates' with only two guys aboard, one of which is not even a sailor. (One minor, and only slightly relevant correction to something said above; this boat was not a fractional rig. It was worse than that; a masthead bendy rig with parallel spreaders. It did not have runners, but does have checkstays, which in some ways are worse. You can usually leave runners on a fractional rig slack during a tack or jibe. Checkstays are not as forgiving. )
> 
> Some of the articles mentioned that numerous people had lectured them before they left that their plan was totally unrealistic. They themselves mentioned all of the people who would stop them on the streets, at the lcoal West Marine, and in grocery stores who had suggested going through the Caribbean to the Panama Canal and following the tradewinds west as a safer and possibly faster route.
> 
> One article said that before they left, the US Coast Guard had issued a written advisory directly to them that said in no uncertain terms that the conditions were unsafe for them to be out there, and that their vessel was ill-suited for this purpose.
> 
> A person who had been hired to work on the boat, helping them prep for the trip, said that he observed areas of delamination in the stern compartment where he was working on the auto-pilot. There was some mention in one editorial that the reason the price was so cheap was that there was pretty extensive delamination in the hull.
> 
> The only explanation that I saw for their departure date (and it seemed like speculation) was a mention that they were close to their 90 days before they would have to pay sales tax, and that the son(skipper) only had so many days off from work.
> 
> And while this exceeds much of the hubris that I have seen on sailing forums over the years, it does not exceed some of the crazier posts and claims that I have read. If there is a lesson here, hubris destroys boats and in the absence of a rescue crew risking their own lived, it also kills people.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jeff


This boat has been listed on Yachtworld for a long time (I think a couple of years now). I know it came up in a search I made a long time ago, and made an inquiry. I was told the deck and hull had significant delamination. The previous owner started to peel the hull and found the condition was worse than he was willing to deal with and left it peeled. I quickly determined without seeing the boat that it was beyond my admittedly limited capabilities. I am assuming they must have put some sort of barrier coat on the boat before launching as the photos showed did not look like it would be water tight. I wish I could find the email I got, as they were quite clear about the poor condition of the boat. Shame too as she looked to have a nice interior at one point.

So one thing we know is that he was likely well aware of the issues the boat had, just ignored them.


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## hpeer

Just a couple of observations.

First it's interesting that the three recent rescues all involved father/son combinations. Rain maker, Sedona, and this. What odds?

But also, in my short sailing career I've come across a few of this type. Some, like the pair that went aground going wrong way round MuNuts Island in Shelbourne, Nova Scotia, lost their boat. Some, like the guy from Toronto who imported a 52' go fast boat from Croatia, and planned to take it UP the Delaware River to Toronto, were lucky to listen to (blunt to the point of rude) advice.

But then some, like the couple in a 40' Rawsome (aptly named Ramshackle), actually made it from Baltimore around the Atlantic doing Newfoundland, Greenland, Iceland, England, Portugal and so on, a good bit of this, sans engine, just amaze me in positive ways.

I don't always know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, the courageous and crazy smart and crafty from the just plain lunatics.

Of course the Wife says that about me. Clearly I fall somewhere on this spectrum and thus have some tolerance for the schennaigians. After all, what the heck is the point of being sane in a crazy world?

All that said, they were bat **** crazy for what they attempted. Period.


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## MedSailor

Want to know the difference? How to separate the hard men from the boys?

Simple.

The hard men didn't press the "OnStar" button when the wind hit 25kts. The crazy Russian who left Oak Harbor WA for cape horn on a San Juan 24 is WAAAY crazier than any of these folk. When he hit 40knots he texted "I'm having fun!" When he lost his forestay he turned downwind to Hawaii.

Now please don't misunderstand me, he is no hero of mine. Lucky and crazy but he is lucky, crafty, lunatic wheat. 

The folks who had similarly Ill planned voyages but got scared when the going got tough and called for momma are the crazy chaff.


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## cheoah

Wow. Delusional is right. 

I think there is a real disconnect for new sailors sometimes that enables this kind of cavalier behavior. Too much TV, or books, and just,not realizing the gravity of a weather forecast like that, compounded by boat condition/design, and inexperience. Those of us that have spent time on the water know how terrifying it can be, how utterly exhausting, and how much easier it is to make a small mistake and pay big. 

I will say that it was some accomplishment to get home alive. They likely had ample opportunity to wash overboard, or lose a finger, eye, or suffer head injury. 

I fault robin walbridge more. He was a professional mariner that somehow lacked the caution that one would think a pro should have. I think the way he viewed the bounty was delusional. He was in love with that boat and simply couldn't see her faults clearly, her limitations. 

Thanks for,posting the imagery,Jon. Pretty well illustrates the weather situation. Baffling. 


Sent from my iSomething using tapatalk


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## MedSailor

cheoah said:


> Wow. Delusional is right.
> 
> I think the way he viewed the bounty was delusional. He was in love with that boat and simply couldn't see her faults clearly, her limitations.


Oh but we all have to love our mistresses and be blind to their faults in order to continue to suffer their required labors and yard bills.

How then should we be blind enough to their respective faults to not abandon them but sane enough to know their REAL limits?


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## Minnewaska

I'll vote for delusional. 

But, I would put it in context. If you look at the X-games, freestyle motorcycle jumping for example, they are arguable delusional. Most people would not, or could not, do a full back flip on a running motorcycle, flying off a ramp, and ride away. 

My point is that some people just seem to believe they are the exception to the rule and embolden themselves with one story of someone pulling off something extreme. What does it take to try to do a back flip with a motorcycle for the first time?

The problem with sailing in extreme weather is the increased need for actual skill and proper vessel, not just courage. Flipping that motorcycle is probably not as hard as it looks, albeit not easy. You need to have quite a bit of courage to do it. That same mentality problem causes people to have the (false) courage to set out in ridiculous conditions.

The major difference is that courage will not sail a boat in those conditions, like it may allow you to backflip a motorcycle. Actually, courage is more likely to get one in trouble sailing. That's a point I think can be driven home with better, perhaps mandatory, training. Love Med's idea to require a course to own/register an EPIRB.


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## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> I'll vote for delusional.
> 
> But, I would put it in context. If you look at the X-games, freestyle motorcycle jumping for example, they are arguable delusional. Most people would not, or could not, do a full back flip on a running motorcycle, flying off a ramp, and ride away.
> 
> My point is that some people just seem to believe they are the exception to the rule and embolden themselves with one story of someone pulling off something extreme. What does it take to try to do a back flip with a motorcycle for the first time?
> 
> The problem with sailing in extreme weather is the increased need for actual skill and proper vessel, not just courage. Flipping that motorcycle is probably not as hard as it looks, albeit not easy. You need to have quite a bit of courage to do it. That same mentality problem causes people to have the (false) courage to set out in ridiculous conditions.
> 
> The major difference is that courage will not sail a boat in those conditions, like it may allow you to backflip a motorcycle. Actually, courage is more likely to get one in trouble sailing. That's a point I think can be driven home with better, perhaps mandatory, training. Love Med's idea to require a course to own/register an EPIRB.


This is pure speculation, of course, but I can't help but wonder whether there was a bit of this "stunt" aspect to the ill-fated passage that resulted in the loss of the Gunboat 55 RAINMAKER off Hatteras a few weeks ago, as well...

The owner tweeting upon their departure from Hatteras that "we'll see you soon" at the Extreme Tech Challenge in the islands, and so on... Not hard to imagine some folks might have seen a fast midwinter passage as a great marketing opportunity to demonstrate the capability of these "disruptive" boats... Needless to say, that didn't work out too well, in this instance...

With so much self-promotion surrounding this particular boat, that trip and their decision to sail into that weather has always struck me as having a tinge of "Here, hold my beer, and watch this..." to it...

;-))


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## outbound

Disagree with mandatory training. Agree with cost of rescue being placed on those rescued with insurance companies obligated to offer rescue insurance. Premium would be based on nature of vessel and crew. Therefore skilled crew on a strong vessel would pay minimal premiums while lousy boat or crew would be socked. Those going without insurance would be paying for their mistake for some time to come. Those who are "judgement proof" should be placed in obligate community service and if foreigners denied exit visas until service completed.


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## fryewe

I can clearly see how one could think we need a new bureaucracy...Department of Maritime Readiness Inspection and Blue Water Insurance. I am sure it would be manned by people who would never, ever try to expand the scope of their influence...and fees and fines would always be wisely levied. 

Of course, an agency with that kind of responsibility would be very small, and always able to hire people with the greatest wisdom in their area of expertise, as well as imbued with the finest sense of customer service.

The agency will always have a local office, and applications will never be lost, or delayed, or rejected for an un-dotted "I."

And, of course, the agency will necessarily have to establish the standards to which they inspect to, and these will require review and revision periodically. And incorporation of the capabilities given by the latest technologies, which absolutely must be installed before permission to sail is given.

And perhaps, at some point, the agency will shift some responsibilities to the states, just as some responsibilities for administration of navigable waters is now, so there'll be 50 regimes to adhere to, and when pulling into Savannah there'll be one set of rules, and when pulling into Jax two days later, another. That's worked out so well with moorings and anchoring.

A working dog check prior to each departure and at each arrival might also be useful, since combining the tasks of multiple agencies can reduce costs.

Perhaps a schedule of fines for misrepresenting your boat as seaworthy when the agency finds it is not would be appropriate. Maybe 100 bucks for the first offense, and 500 for the second, with the first being a misdemeanor and the second a felony.

Rules should also include manning levels and crew experience, with recent experience a must, and demonstrated expertise in operation and repair of all installed equipment.

And age limits for captain and crew, similar to those for driver's licenses...say, 18 as a minimum and 60 as a maximum, because sailing offshore requires a certain level of fitness and health (the risk of life threatening conditions, such as heart problems increasing with age). And everyone has to have a recent physical, say...within the past 30 days...to reduce the risk of having to rescue ill crew. And a history of heart disease or diabetes or certain allergies should be automatically disqualifying because the risks are so great.

Yeah, I could get on board with a regime like that.


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## tdw

This type of discussion can easily drift into PRWG mode. Please lets try and keep it On Topic.


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## OldEagle

Without defending these guys at all--It's hard to have judgment when you don't have knowledge. It's hard to accept someone else's knowledge in lieu of your own (ignorant assumptions) when you have no real frame of reference into which to place it. I think these guys illustrate a wider social and cultural trend--growing ignorance in American and many western societies of the natural world, its scale, its power, and its utter indifference. The vast majority of our fellows live, all the time, in a human-scaled, protected world, mostly indoors, in which they have never, ever, had any exposure to the natural forces that these guys ran into. They simply can't imagine it, and when someone tries to tell them, it doesn't compute.


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## Mabinogion

I guess it all comes down to a matter of choice, that freedom gives me the inalienable right to put to sea in a boat not fit for purpose, crewed by those with insufficient offshore passage making experience (seamanship does not even enter this equation) into winter storm conditions that were forecast and foreseeable. And then when the SHTF, as it invariably does, it puts the lives of the rescuers ('who thrive on this type of thing') at risk. They would rather not be putting their lives at risk, but will always answer the call, at least they are professionals unlike your average yachtie.
So, keeping on thread, it's a totally dumbass decision however it is dressed up.
Keep on making those dumbass decisions and beaurocracy will come and bite yo' dumbass eventually, especially if, God forbid, rescuers lives be lost.


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## outbound

F makes a great point . Agree " can't fix stupid" and his liberatarian post is not without merit. But as actions of the arrogant and ignorant increasingly have no consequences how do you turn it around? Inhuman to improve the gene pool by just letting them drown


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## Shockwave

Often, people don't know what they don't know. If you haven't sailed in truly crappy conditions how would you know?


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## Mabinogion

Is that the unknown known or the known unknown or the unknown unknown?


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## Maine Sail

Shockwave said:


> Often, people don't know what they don't know. If you haven't sailed in truly crappy conditions how would you know?


Perhaps you would know because everyone in Newport tried to tell you NOT to go, including the USCG....


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## ccriders

Shockwave said:


> Often, people don't know what they don't know. If you haven't sailed in truly crappy conditions how would you know?


Hasn't everyone seen those films of WWII destroyers out in conditions much like those in the grib crashing up and down on huge waves much like a fishing cork on a windy choppy day? Haven't we all seen photos of naval ships with scalloped top sides courtesy of crashing waves. Haven't we all been caught by a wave and tumbled up on the beach with the air knocked out of our lungs?
How could they not know the power of the sea and the relative inadequacies of their boat?
And, if they were told by CG not to go, then why are they not presented with the bill and forbidden departure until it is paid?
Insurance and beuracracy is not an answer to any of these issues. The first to be denied coverage will be single handers, the second will be mom and pop crews. Next will be any boat over xx years old....
We don't need to dunn everyone who sails a boat, just those that blatantly disregard common sense and good seamanship, after we rescue them.
John


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## outbound

See your point John and agree. Given I either sail mom,and pop or by myself I would be the first to bear the brunt of my bad idea. However, would note if the boat is in the water other than posting a 24/7 guard on it at huge expense there is no way to prevent these types of occurances.
Still think there should be some consequences to unseamenly behavior. Perhaps indictment for reckless behavior as they place the CG lives at risk. Everyone here might need the CG at some time in the future. Even if we think we have a well found boat and are prudent skippers. 
I'm concerned that at some point the CG won't be there for us. They may limit SAR to near coastal waters accessable by boat. The undertaking of helicopters,airplanes and ship deployment engenders huge expense and risk. We are an insignificant population. We have no ability to self police these types of people. Therefore look to you to come up with a practical idea to diminish these occurances.


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## ccriders

People are going to get into trouble at sea, the whole marine community knows this and have a well found ethic to save seamen in trouble. Nonetheless, I too fear that the actions of some will have a bad effect on all of us. It seems easy enough to build a case of negligence as demonstrated in this case and that the best response is to make these people pay, more as a penalty that cost recovery. 
Even the most carefully prepared voyage can encounter circumstances that requires rescue. Our problem is to discern gross negligence and use those incidents to discourage further negligence.
Not an easy task I'm afraid as that old ethic is to save everyone, whatever the cost.
John


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## MedSailor

Mabinogion said:


> Is that the unknown known or the known unknown or the unknown unknown?


While this is very true it seems like those ignorant of the sea still generally fear it. How many hundreds of times have you heard a landlubber ask "what about storms?!!?" when you mention cruising on a sailboat.

MedSailor


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## 123456Wannasail654321

Mabinogion said:


> Should yachting insurance be compulsory with a significant amount of cover attributable to the rescue services if used?
> 
> Yes it would probably put the cost of premiums up, but by how much if every yacht had insurance.
> 
> Currently yachting is relatively unencombered by officialdom. I don't mean the type attributable to CG inspections or TSA/Homeland interventions and the like.
> 
> If the yachting fraternity continue to behave in a cavalier fashion expecting the Coasties to rush to their aid when the yachties own actions have been a contributory factor which appears to happen at all levels from VOR down we are not too far away from further legislation.


lets keep it that way the governemnt is up everyone butt for every thing else. So lets keep them away. ok.

Being stupid should not bring the feds in.


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## 123456Wannasail654321

The last thing we want to be is like Europe where you have to have governemnt permission to do mostly everything even mildly exciting.


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## mstern

I don't see any reasonable or workable way to start charging people for their rescues. There is just no fair way to do it. I do however, think the Coast Guard should be empowered to "close" a port during certain weather conditions and be able to stop anyone from leaving. Any one who does choose to leave when the port is closed would be rescued at government expense, but prosecuted for violating the CG order. Punishments could include forfeiture of your boat, fines and imprisonment.


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## OldEagle

There is always a lot of discussion about how much search & rescue costs for those who imprudently put themselves in harm's way:
Total 2014 USG outlays: $3.5 trillion (i.e., $3,500,000 million)--2015 will be more
2105 USCG budget: $9.8 billion (i.e., $9800 million)
SAR component of 2015 USCG budget: $786 million
So...SAR costs are about 8% of USCG budget, and a rounding error in USG budget.
http://www.uscg.mil/budget/docs/2015_Budget_in_Brief.pdf

Someone is going to need a much better case than this to justify lots of restrictions on the basis of costs because of an occasional nutter...


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## Capt Len

First, the helicopter lowers down a card reader bluetoothed to home base. Then the rescue .


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## TakeFive

OldEagle said:


> ..Someone is going to need a much better case than this to justify lots of restrictions on the basis of costs because of an occasional nutter...


The main problem is that there's just no concrete way to draw the line for who should and shouldn't pay. Especially in this kangaroo court, an argument can be made that virtually every SAR incident was the fault of the captain ("should have done more maintenance," "shouldn't have gone out," "should have diverted east/west/north/south" etc.). So if everything was done perfectly, there'd be no SAR, and the only concrete place to draw the line is no SARs at all - let 'em all live with the consequences of their actions. Then it's perfectly equitable.

But I don't think that's what anybody wants.

As long as SARs continue without fatalities or severe injuries to the rescuers, nothing will change. If some rescuers die on SAR attempts, then there might be enough of a backlash to change things. But there's still no good place to "draw the line."


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## willyd

Capt Len said:


> First, the helicopter lowers down a card reader bluetoothed to home base. Then the rescue .


Better yet, the EPIRB, instead of having just one panic button, requires the user to push a series of buttons that indicate how they got into the mess, e.g., "Press '2' if you failed to heed the forecast...", etc. The more reasons that point to carelessness on the part of the skipper, the weaker the EPIRB's signal.


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## alctel

Idiots have been going out in terrible conditions and unsuitable boats since the first guy floating across a river on a log, it's not something thats getting worse. (though this is a particularly egregious case)

The coast guard is an emergency service like the fire department, hospitals and police that is funded by all for the (theoretical) benefit for all. Arbitrarily charging for rescue sets a really bad precedent.

What's next, charging people privately for medical care?


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## Mabinogion

Its always entertaining to see what stating the obvious develops into with time polarising views.

Lunatics, for that is what they are, setting sail in these circumstances, are nothing like people requiring emergency services ashore such as road accidents, fires or ill health.
They are selfish inconsiderate idiots that deserve no sympathy for undertaking a deliberate and voluntary act in the face of Mother Natures worst in vessels not fit for the conditions and they themselves being so short of common sense as to be almost laughable were it not for the circumstances.

We should all review the facts again concentrating on the bigger picture with the benefit of hindsight. The facts do not change as time and comments progress.


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## fryewe

Mabinogion said:


> Its always entertaining to see what stating the obvious develops into with time polarising views.
> 
> Lunatics, for that is what they are, setting sail in these circumstances, are nothing like people requiring emergency services ashore such as road accidents, fires or ill health.
> They are selfish inconsiderate idiots that deserve no sympathy for undertaking a deliberate and voluntary act in the face of Mother Natures worst in vessels not fit for the conditions and they themselves being so short of common sense as to be almost laughable were it not for the circumstances.
> 
> We should all review the facts again concentrating on the bigger picture with the benefit of hindsight. The facts do not change as time and comments progress.


You must live in a different world than I do:

- DWI/texting while driving
- extreme sports
- overdoses on drugs and alcohol
- hiking/hunting in rugged terrain with blizzard forecasts
- using open flames for heating a house/cleaning a gas stove (pilot light on) with acetone

Idiots abound...not limited to the sailing community. alctel's post is spot on.

Now, hold my beer and watch this...!


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## Mabinogion

Respect all views, within acceptable parameters of course, just to make sure which planet I was occupying I returned to the O.P., re-read first two paras. and followed the link to Cruisers Forum article re. same circumstances.
Yep, thread was about the idiot/stupid yachties, nothing else implied.
BTW, 4 out of 5 from the above list are almost certain to cause severe injury or death to participants and maybe even 3rd parties whilst the odd one out is dumbass even if you are a true Mountain Man. 
Cheers to your beers


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## hellosailor

Maybe we need to give the USCG (who are not simply an emergency service, they are revenue collectors and at times a military department among other things, a true bastard agglomeration of roles) some extra discretion.

Right now they can say "You vessel is manifestly unsafe, turn around or we turn you around." So let's make that "Your vessel is manifestly unsafe, either you put these GoPro cams on the boat so we can sell the footage to Fox, or we'll turn you around."

Hey, I'm a damned Yankee. I see a way to make a buck here, and get the USCG some extra funds!


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## SloopJonB

I'd like a report on those fools in a couple of years to see if they have survived.

If ever there was a finalist (or two) in the Darwin awards......


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## downeast450

Maine Sail said:


> This is the eBay listing it closed on September 7th....
> 
> 1994 44 039 Carrol Marine 43 Nelson Marek | eBay
> 
> This is what the eBay listing says in BOLD & CAPITALIZED PRINT:
> 
> *"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL." *
> 
> And this is what they _needed_ to address before leaving????
> 
> *"Before they can cast off the autopilot needs to be repaired, the wind generator needs to be erected on the deck and the cabin needs to be straightened out, the McGlashans said."*
> 
> Yeah _"straightening out the cabin"_ will matter in a 70 knot washing machine. I suspect they should have waited till after the storm to clean the cabin as the storm was just going to mess it up again...
> 
> And this is one of my favorites:
> 
> _*"We've got plenty of food, plenty of booze, good sails and all the safety gear you could ever need, so we're going to be OK,*" Jason told Newport Daily."_
> 
> So I'm guessing mother nature disagreed with the "_good sails_" part and "_all the safety gear you could ever need_" meant a big press of the Easy Button......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I especially love the photos towards the bottom, of the engine oil pan submersed in WATER....
> 
> https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl/1994+Nelson+Marek+43/_0e8e5b4186974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994%20Nelson%20Marek%2043/Sedona
> 
> The mental image I get now of this "_experienced yachtsman_" is that of Bill Murray strapped to the mast in _What About Bob_ "I'm sailing, I'm a sailor, I'm sailing......."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I read the events that transpired _The Coasties_ were called for well before the $hit even hit the fan. Imagine if it had been more than 20 -30 knots before the multiple failures had occurred, torn sails, failed engine, & multiple charge source failures among others.......... Yeah they were sailing _into_ the $hit storm but had not even gotten there before all these failures occurred. Wow.... My mind again wanders back to the eBay listing...
> 
> *"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL." *
> 
> As I opined above, simply DELUSIONAL..... When are people going to finally wake up and respect the North Atlantic or actually take their duties as the captain of a vessel seriously.......?
> 
> Sadly the entire sailing community gets a black eye over stunts like this... Where was the sensible community, who should have tried to reason with these two, before they cast lines in February.....


 The Principle of Natural Selection, has its place!

Down


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