# Thoughts on new Beneteau Oceanis 40



## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

I am planning on buying a sailboat for some coastal cruising around the Mediterranean Sea this summer. I have helped a cousin crew his 50 foot boat before and enjoyed the experience so much that I would now like to buy my own boat to sail with my family. The longest trip I expect to 
make would be about a week.

Right now I have my eye on the new Beneteau Oceanis 40 and was wondering if anyone knows someone who has bought one or has any helpful comments. I have been searching the internet for the last few months for comments about the boat but have been having alot of trouble finding anything because it is such a new model. Should I concerned about initial problems with a brand new design? Any thoughts on how this would compare to the Oceanis 423? Finally, how difficult is it to deal with a standard non-furling mainsail if you have electric winches to help out? Right now I am leaning towards a furling design to simplify handling the boat and wanted to know if the time spent learning to use the standard mainsail would be worth the added performance benefits. 

I have looked at other models as well and think that based on the price, features and design, the beneteau would be the best choice. The broker has sent me a quote for about $175,000 with all the options I want. 

Thanks for your help. I know there are alot of questions within this post but I am glad that I finally found a place to get some answers that are not from a salesman.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

With a $175,000 budget you should see fit to keep your mind open. Might want to hear from those who know as per the quality of the Oceanis line compared to other Beneteau models (Jeff H had some good insight on this, I thought). By the way, I have a 27-yea-old Catalina 30 I'd be willing to sell for $150,000. You'd have a boat plus $25,000 "walkin' around money." Needs a new jib, new stove, leaks a little, standing rigging should be replaced, new deck and bottom paint, mast bent "a little," the head smells "weird," but otherwise is in super condition.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

S-guy...Welcome aboard. I'm not qualified to comment on your Beneteau but the med is a big place and a week long passage is blue water cruising so I would do everything I could to insure safety as you put the boat together. To my mind that means a mainsail you can deal with if something goes wrong and therefore would suggest either a fully battened OR BOOM furling system rather than in -mast as neither requires you to go up the mast if something goes wrong. The boom furling is a bit pricier than in-mast but it is easier to deal with and allows a good full-batten mainsail instead of a compromised sail. How are you gonna get her home when you're done with the med?


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

As far as storage goes, I am going to leave her at a marina in Turkey until next summer. The only other model I thought about was the First 40.7 but I worry about the traveller being in the middle of the cockpit and getting in the way of the people sitting in the cockpit. Also, the First is a bit cramped down below and lacks the water storage I would need for a long trip. Furthermore, I may be sailing with only one other person and would like to have the ease of a furling mainsail rather than having to deal with the large sails of the 40.7. Can anyone who has the 40.7 comment on how hard it is to sail with two people?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A 40' sailboat as your first boat, and one that isn't local to you, is an awfully big committment to make for you. It might make more sense to charter for a few weeks, and then get a smaller boat, back where you live. You don't sound like you've got a whole lot of sailing experience, and unless you have money to burn, keeping a 40' boat where you aren't nearby to do routine maintenance on it is going to get expensive. 

Also, cam's point about getting something that is a bit more robust than an oversized coastal cruiser is well worth thinking about. Being a few days from land does mean that you may want to have a bluewater capable boat.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

If I had 175,000 to spend I would buy a used boat of a similar size with a higher build quality, like a Tartan or Sabre. It is my understanding that the Oceanis is not Beneteau's highest quality line and I would not consider it a blue water boat, from what I've heard. This summer, I did a similar analysis and bought an old Swan 41 in very nice shape for substantially less money. Not as much room below but relatively fast and built like a tank. Of course, if new and space below is more imprtant to you, the Oceanis could be a good choice.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

sailingguy123 said:


> As far as storage goes, I am going to leave her at a marina in Turkey until next summer. The only other model I thought about was the First 40.7 but I worry about the traveller being in the middle of the cockpit and getting in the way of the people sitting in the cockpit. Also, the First is a bit cramped down below and lacks the water storage I would need for a long trip. Furthermore, I may be sailing with only one other person and would like to have the ease of a furling mainsail rather than having to deal with the large sails of the 40.7. Can anyone who has the 40.7 comment on how hard it is to sail with two people?


I have no experience on the 40.7 but have spent some time on a First 42 from the late 80s. My understanding is that the Firsts are considered to be better built boats than the Oceanis and I would feel much more comfortable making blue water passages on a First.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

As everybody around here knows, we sail a Beneteau. For us we love our boat. Our model is a 2001 361; Perfect for our needs.

*IF* your intentions are to use the boat for costal cruising and nothing more, than I would say yes, the Beneteau would make a good fit.
If you plan on someday making open passages, than you should probably consider something else.

Me personally (Even as the owner of a 2001 model), I am not very pleased with the new models. They now have a 40, 46, & 49. It's just my opinion but the curves they are adding to the coach roof are not aesthetically pleasing. That's just my opinion. 

The newer production boats get a bad rap for their interior build quality, but you are buying a new 40ft. boat for $175,000.00. The same size boat in a Hallberg-Rassey would probably be double that price.

The interior layout looks comfortable and I'm sure it would work well for a family of four or for two couples doing some cruising.


Furling main sails are a trade off. Do you lose some performance? Yes. Are they easy to sail shorthanded? Yes. I have not had any problems with mine. Some will tell you that they are a nightmare in certain conditions; I have never had any problem. Out last year on a calm day when a front blew in bring 30+ knots and I simply rolled her in just as she was intended to do. It has never jammed going in. If you over roll it on the way in and end up with too much of the sail in the mast, it can sometimes jam on the way out, but that is on me or my crew, not any fault of the equipment.

Personally we are starting to look at larger boats. I asked my wife just yesterday if she wanted to some day cruise the South Pacific and the Coast of South America, etc&#8230;. Her response was that we are not ready for that just yet. We currently cruise the Great Lakes and in the not so distant future may want to become island hoppers. So for us our search has lead us back to another Beneteau. They fit our needs. But we will not be looking at the new versions, but rather their previous generation from about 2000 - 2005.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Sailingguy123,

If you want info on this model here's the best place to get it. These are people who own these boats and sail them all over the world, not armchair wannabees. I am presently in the Bahamas and can't monitor this site too often but other members in the group will be happy to help you. There is an Italian member who knows the new 40 well. Good luck in your quest.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
393 group


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Because I plan on being in the area for 2 months and would like to sail for most of the time I am there, chartering does not make financial sense to me. If I am going to pay that much money, I would rather spend the extra money and have a new boat. I do not plan on doing much sailing at my permanent residence so sailingdog's advice about buying something smaller for home doesn't apply in my case. 

Also, the originial plan was to get the boat from the French factory and have it delivered to Turkey. I looked at the Tartans and Sabres and althought they are nice boats, I checked yachtworld.com and couldn't find them being offerend in Turkey. There, the majority of boats are either Beneteaus or Jeanneaus, so if I were to go the used boat route, I would most likely get one of those. 

Most of the cruising I will do will be along the coast of turkey, usually withing a day or two of a marina so bluewater capabilities are not an absolute necessity. 

For around $175,000 and my intended usage, are there any better new 40 footers that are available overseas to avoid a transatlantic delivery?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sailingguy, I know the 40.7 pretty well...we used to race against them..and sometimes in them...there's a lot of them here....

the 40,7 can be single handed, and it depends on your experience, but there are no in mast or boom furlers for that boat..the first .7 series are race boats, hence the main on the floor and the removable seats...if you have no experience don't go there..It can "bite" you...Its a racer/cruiser, fast but not confortable...The genoa whinches are far from the wheel and requires a good auto pilot to help you tack...the boat need constant adjustment on the main traveller, as opposed to other cruising boats, so seating on the wheel side must be done. Inside is smaller than normal and space for storage is minimal...the boat is built sturdier, but lighter, and less "nice" finishings there, too. Tank and engines obviously are also smaller... sometimes too small...Several friends have problems with water incursions, and badly finished fiberglass deck fixings..

If you are coming to Europe, and are going to buy a boat here, why you will get a Beneteau??? Please look at the Dehler, MUCH MUCH MUCH better than any French boat, or have a look at the very pretty Grand Soliel...also very good boats...me, today...stay away from French boats....

If I were in your situation, the dehler would be it....and preferably one with only 2 to 3 years age...

http://www.dehler.com/dehlers.php?i...to=907http://www.dehler.com/dehlers.php?id=38

http://grandsoleil.net

For the other cruising boats I don't know nothing, specially the Benetau as they make more boat models than I can count...

Bellow you can find a 40,7 being beatten by an "unkown boat" by "armchair wannabes"


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu,

You back?? Good to hear. Some of the members here kept spreading rumors about you not knowing how to sail and getting lost in a Pearson, etc. I defended you. Want to make sure you know that.

- CD


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Giu,
> 
> You back?? Good to hear. Some of the members here kept spreading rumors about you not knowing how to sail and getting lost in a Pearson, etc. I defended you. Want to make sure you know that.
> 
> - CD


Nahhh, just took some time off to do some Scuba with the boy....and wonder around here...just relaxing

And they're right, I can't sail for s**t....I'm just good with photoshop and get photos of the net and paste my face on them...while I am seating confortably in my armchair.....

Weird....the Pearson was gone yesterday...didn't even say goodbye, never got the ride....


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

The Dehler and Grand Soleil are nice boats, but they are too expensive even if used and it does not look like they come with furling mainsails. I don't really need such a well-built boat. I think the Beneteau will give me the quality and comfort of boat I need for my 2-3 months of sailing per year.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

I used to charter an Oceanus (390 or 395). Great sailing boat. You need to ognore all of the Beneteau bashers online as there are many. I generally keep my mouth shut on what kind of boat to buy as most askers are in the dark about their question. It is obvious by the way you framed your question you know what you want. The use that you have described is exactly what the Beneteau shines at. Keep in mind that they build boats for the charter fleets and that should tell you alot since you are going to use it the same way, a week at a time. In fact based on your post above, maybe owning a charter boat is the way to go for you, have you considered that. Good luck in your decision and don't let the naysayers bring you down.
pigslo


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

My concern with owning a charter boat is that they see heavy use and I don't want to have to deal with the hassle of replacing equipment.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

pigslo said:


> I used to charter an Oceanus (390 or 395). Great sailing boat. You need to ognore all of the Beneteau bashers online as there are many. I generally keep my mouth shut on what kind of boat to buy as most askers are in the dark about their question. It is obvious by the way you framed your question you know what you want. The use that you have described is exactly what the Beneteau shines at. Keep in mind that they build boats for the charter fleets and that should tell you alot since you are going to use it the same way, a week at a time. In fact based on your post above, maybe owning a charter boat is the way to go for you, have you considered that. Good luck in your decision and don't let the naysayers bring you down.
> pigslo


Pigs, sorry to ask, but where did you read any bashing or naysaying in this thread about the boat he wants??


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Read the whole thread, Giu. Anyways, I found out taht your boat actually came from a Beneteau mold Giu. That's right, Giu. My grandfather's second wife was Portugeuse and all my mothers half brothers are Greek and Portuguese. I called my uncle in Boston and he did some checking and I got the scoop on you. You are from a very small country, Giu. Does the name Giuseppe mean anything to you. Don't worry, your secretis safe with me!
pigslo


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

hehehe

pigs I read it, I thought you were saying that I had naysay and bashed the beneteau, which I did not, just pointed out that the 40.7 (not the 40) was not for him, as it is a race boat... (and not that good at it by the way) and of course also pointed the Dehler and the GS....because if he goes...at least he can go in style....

By the way, Giuseppe is an Italian name..in Portuguese its José, and my boat's mould was from Wauquiez!!!

See the resemblance bellow......

The beautiful Wauquiez....










my boat.....


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks to everyone that has posted so far. Your comments have been very helpful, but please do not let me give you the impression that I have completely made up my mind on the Oceanis 40. If you know of a better coastal cruiser for the money, I am open to suggestions and welcome your comments.

However, I would also like to ask the following question: If I were to decide to do some bluewater sailing, what are your suggestions for the best used boat I could get for around $175,000? Please keep in mind that I plan to buy this boat in Turkey, so some american models that come to mind may not be very easy to find. 

Also, what sorts of things should I watch out for when trying to find a relatively problem-free used boat? I have heard many comments about avoiding charter boats. Is the standard procedure to find something that looks good and then have a marine surveyor take a look at it?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

There's a Dehler (DS) and a Grand Soleil a NAuticat and even an older Halberg Rassy. All waiting for you...now go...

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...1005&fromPrice=100000&toPrice=175000&cint=289


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks for searching yachworld for me giulietta.

The Hallberg Rassy here is 20 years old...do these boats still have bluewater capabilities after that many years? What about maintenance on such old but well-regarded boats? Also, unfortunately the boats that are on the yachtworld link are all above my goal of around $175,000. Do you have any recommendations for a bluewater cruiser more in my price range?

Any thoughts on the following boats:

1984 39' Swan:
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1590&url=

1983 42' Hallberg-Rassy Ketch
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75052&url=

1992 43' Dehler 43cws
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/...-1%3A42418%3A46823%3A191&is=false&searchtype=

Thanks again for all your help.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Actually Giu, my uncles names were Andrew and Bobby, but thanks for playing along. As for what to spend 175 on used.... now you,ve gone and done it. Giu's ideas of going to yachtworld are a good start. From there the process gets very complicated as you have gone from a thumbs up or down question to one more subjective. If I had 175 to spend on a bluewater boat (I don't, I am a poor boy) I might think of a Valiant 40 or a Tayana Vancouver 42 or a.....
pigslo


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

S-guy-
I'd second the thought that if you're new to sailing, you will be better off chartering than buying in a hurry. Consider, you want a boat for two months. But, you'll be tying up $175,000, more likely $200,000 before you are done because there is always something else. (And does that price include VAT or any other EU taxes you will be required to pay?) Then there's insurance, and since you've never owned a boat before and have limited experience, and none in those waters, they're gonna clock you for that. Ask the broker to get you an insurance estimate if you can't get one locally, I'd be curious to see what that would run.

But $200,000 banked for a year, if you get 10%, will put $20,000 towards paying for your charter bill--which includes insurance. If you can get a decent charter rate, you might actually SAVE money that way. And, if you can charter three or four different boats, say for two weeks each, you'd get a chance to see how they perform.

Meanwhile, you'd also save another $20-30,000 by not buying a boat--because it will lose that much value in the first year. Well...maybe $30-40,000, because if you buy a boat, you'll need to store it someplace, haul it, bottom paint it, recommission it the following year. Boats cost money, even when they are not in use.

So, chartering a boat could actually cost you WAY less than buying one, in the short time. Way more than buying the wrong boat, or finding out the family doesn't like boating, etc.

Boats in that size are also all very different animals. The Beneteau "First" series are aimed at "performance cruising", i.e. yes, they will ruin the cockpit by putting the traveler in the middle of it, if that makes the boat perform better or easier to shorthand.<G> Every boat will handle very differently. Would you buy a mail order wife, sight unseen, from a catalog that says "They're all about 5'7" tall with brown eyes and a good temper." ? Boats handle differently, some are pigs in light weather, some are pigs in heavy weather. Some are elegant ladies that also can kick like a mule when need be.

There are other large issues. You ask about furling and power winches...many sailors will tell you that power winches are a heavy, expensive, unreliable toy, and that any type of in-mast or in-boom reefing is another additional weight and expense that's totally unnecessary. Yes, reefing a main on a 40-50' boat single-handed can be a handful, but once you learn to outsmart the boat (they're fast and powerful, but usually not too smart<G>) you should be able to reef that sail manually--and not have to worry about sails and winches jamming or failing.

I suspect you will have much more FUN if you charter several boats and get to experience the individualities of them, as well as saving money.


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Thank you for your comment hellosailor. Do you know how much typical insurance rates are for a new sailor with a 40 foot boat?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sdawg...you misinterperted what I said. While I have no objection to a more robust boat than a bene 40 footer...my only point was to get her fitted out for sea properly with systems that can be handled easily when at sea....specifically a decent mainsail handling/shortening system that does not require leaving the cockpit. Also included in that general advice would be opting for heavy duty ground tackle and windlass, perhaps upsizing the winches, perhaps an inner forestay or gale sail etc.
I think the boat will be fine in the Med in season but since distance cruisng is planned, it is best to make investments in ease of handling/safety now rather than have a problem or need an upgrade later. 

Sailingguy...Turkey is beautiful and interesting and the Greek islands are close as well. Sounds like a great place to base your boat...and you can always ship it to the states or caribe for 20k or so if you decide you want to see those places.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sguy...the insurance rates for a boat will vary by cruising ground. Chesapeake Bay is a lot less than Florida...Florida is less expensive than Caribbean...I don't know what the med coverage will cost but you can bet it won't be as cheap as the $2k annually that boat will cost you to insure for the Chesapeake (ballpark on 200k boat). I'd at LEAST double that as a working number or ask for a quote from one of the international marine insurers. I know there are a bunch of Americans that winter in Mamaris...you might wanna try hooking up with some of them online (try the SSCA board) to get better answers on the stuff you will need to know that is Turkey Specific. It might pay you to join SSCA as you will get acceess to their archives which I know had some pretty recent articles on wintering in the Mamaris area (in addition to lots of other help from some good folks.)


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Sguy-
I don't know what rates would be these days. They will of course depend on the coverage, the value of the boat, besides how you are rated. You might contact Al Golden at International Marine Insurance Services, 410-643-8330; fax - 410-643-8331 1-800-541-4647; email:[email protected] Those are old numbers so if the area code has changed or anything, try the web.
IMIS isn't cheap but Al's a professional and a gentlemen, he'll tell you right out what the differences in policies are. Cheap boat insurance can be a mistake, like so much else in life.


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks for the contact information hellosailor. I will send him an email and hopefully he can provide me with a good estimate of how much insurance would cost if I bought a boat.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sailingguy...

IF you are keeping the boat in Turkey (as I understood you want to do) DO THE INSURANCE THERE, NOT IN THE US, as I believe you will leave the boat registred there...Insurance for a 40's in Europe is around 1000 Euros per year, give or take 200 Euros, they don't care if you can sail or not...they will ask where you will be sailing and how many days a year...pretty simple... and less (MUCH LESS) confusing and money scamming as it is in the US.. (I pay 900 Euros a year fully coverage including racing, and 0% liability for a 42', I had to show a copy of my Skipper Licence as owner)

Sould you want to fly the US flag..then you can't stay over 6 months....so registration must be well thought...


Once you decide to go to the States and register the boat in the US, then worry about it then, not before the bride is in the church...

Here's what I would do if I were you....and I wouldn't anounce I have 175 to spend. Say you only have 120K....OK??? Be smart...

I'd buy a plane ticket to Italy, Southern Spain, Southern France or Portugal....and buy ther boat there, where the boats are MUCH BETTER QUALITY, and also more choice available and better maintained....Turkey is not exactly a good place to buy, its poor, the selection is small, the boats are old and/or neglected, or have more "miles than a road hooker"...go to a country where there are more boats sailing, look at all the ones availble, decide on one, (take at least 2 weeks to buy a boat), buy one THEN take it to Turkey.

Turkey is not European Union, so you may buy a NEW ONE tax free (export version, you then have 2 months to get it outta here, most yards in Europe can even provide provisional export registration), then pay the taxes in turkey and register it there....check with Turkish Customs....

I don't know what you see in Turkey, but there are less complicated places around, like Italy, Malta, Greece....

But please DON'T buy the boat there....also since what you want to do is not really BIG BLUE WATER as they are meaning here in SAILNET, get a benetau, A jeanneau or even a Bavaria...They'll serve you good for what you want...

REMEMBER, don't think American if you want it in Turkey, go with the flow, with the locals and do it as they do....
G


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Giulietta said:


> more "miles than a road hooker"...G


Do what G said. He gave you good advise.

Buy the boat in Portugal and he will help you sail to Turkey. 
That is if G can clear customs in Turkey, they may not let him in.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Giu...I think his plan is to buy the boat and take delivery in the eastern med and then make his way to turkey for "permanent" berthing. If he documents the boat as a US vessel I think the boat can stay for quite long periods in Turkey without a problem. 
"Foreign-flagged yachts, on condition that they are sailed by their owners once every two years, can remain in Turkey up to five years without a requirement for any permission. You can leave the country by another means of transport during this period after you leave your yacht at a marina or a moorage licensed by the Ministry of Tourism"
"Foreign sailors arriving in Turkey on their own yacht are now eligible for a two-year visa. A five year visa can be obtained in advance from the Turkish Diplomatic Mission in one's country of domicile. Residence Permits are available for periods starting from 90 days up to 5 years. They are also multiple entry, however departure and entry dates continue to be stamped in your passport. A foreigner who is the owner of a yacht, his wife and children and crew can obtain longer term Residence Permits, on condition that they have a fully paid contract to keep their yacht in a marina for at least the length of time of the Residence Permit application. The maximum permitted period on first application is 2 years. Longer periods up to 5 years are possible on subsequent application."
**********All this from noonsite.com *************

So...it appears that Turkey is a far better place to keep a boat long term than any place within the EU where you would have to worry about VAT being assessed AND compliance with the Schengen treaty personally and be forced to move the boat out of EU waters every 18 months. 
All of this will change dramatically if Turkey gains admittance to the EU or if the boat is determined to be used as an unlicensed charter vessel rather than a recreational vessel. 
Giu...does the above sound correct and make sense to you?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I admit I thought the Turkish system was already like the EU one.. my wrong...but still would consult with them. How old is that info?? So if he can stay up to 5 years is great...


I don't think Turkey will ever join the EU...just me thinking...


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## CanDrac (Apr 6, 2008)

We own a Beneteau 43 (very similar to the 40, as you know) and are on our way from New York to Barcelona, Spain via the Caribbean. We're in the Dominican Republic right now so we already have over 2,000 miles under the keel. Let's just say that we are definitely putting the boat to the test and getting to know it pretty well. If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to answer them. 

-franc
S/V Can Drac


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## deniswfoster (Feb 8, 2009)

Hello,

Tell me when you arrive in Barcelona. I am in Roses a short distance to the North of the same coast.

Have you reinforced the autopilot tablet fixation and rudder post ? If yes would you have pictures and the Beneteau service notice.

We just installed a watermaker and and an upgrade of the electrical system.

If you want more details just let me know.

Denis Foster


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## CanDrac (Apr 6, 2008)

Yes! The Beneteau dealer in Charleston, SC fixed it for us in no time. They are great! E-mail me and I'll send you the details: [email protected]

We should reach Barcelona in early July. You can read about the trip and follow our progress on our site.


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