# Micro cruisers



## smallboatlover

This thread if for people to post small sailboat any thing from 12' up to 22' small cruisers that and intresting, or just a small cruiser post pics here.


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## athayden

Here is a picture of my sailboat, although slightly larger then your dimensions. The Olympic Star is 23.5 feet in length. I believe she could be defined as a pocket cruiser. They are quite reliable and I have spent many a weekend aboard with my 2 children. The headroom leaves something to be desired but...


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## Faster

Hopefully we don't have to be owners....

The classic 20 ft Flicka:










Nordica 16 and 20



















And in the UK there's a slew of pocket cruisers like this Vivacity 20.. bilge keelers for the mud harbours there.. We once saw a young couple cruising one of these in BC.. with a newborn and a Golden Retriever on board!


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## Squidd

Faster said:


> Hopefully we don't have to be owners....
> 
> The classic 20 ft Flicka:


That's a cute little boat... saw one on a trailer going down the hwy once...

Looked like the "Little Tug that Could"...


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## smallboatlover

these are all supper cool boats i love boats like this. this small. small but cool boats .


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## Andyman

Here's my 1972 Aquarius 23 coming in for a raft up. I love this boat!


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## bljones

Georgian 23, a small big boat:









Oday Tempest:


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## JimMcGee

Our old Catalina 22. Much as I love our 30 I do miss her...


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## Faster

Here's a neat page

Marine Illustration

And another classic... the Nimble 20


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## smallboatlover

i love the idea of a boat being 23' but feeling like a 30' which is looks like in bjjones.


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## Ajax_MD

smallboatlover said:


> i love the idea of a boat being 23' but feeling like a 30' which is looks like in bjjones.


I have often commented to jones that his boat looks far larger than it's stated dimensions. They did a good job with that boat.


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## smallboatlover

yes they did. i hope my next boats like that one.


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## smallboatlover

when i finally get my next boat with a cabin im going to make it feel like it's a bigger boat. i plan to have a stove inside or a grill on the outside. crazy radio system, bunch of electronics and stuff like a somewhat modern sailboat. with technology


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## bljones

Thanks, small and bubbles. I think the Georgian 23 is one of the few small boats that visually benefits from having a whole bunch of crap bolted onto it. Naked, she just looks kinda kinda dumpy and top heavy.


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## bjung

A friend just purchased an Atlantic City Cat, 24', and they also used to make a 21'. The space down below is huge and gorgeous. Sorry, no pic...


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## bobperry

I drew this 21'er for myself thinking it was the smalest boat that would satisfy my cruising needs.


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## smallboatlover

ya jones that boat doesn't look as atractive as the pic of the boat from before


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## emoney

Who says Bayliner didn't make some cute boats;








This Buccaneer 220 is what got me hooked on sailing....she's gone now, but not forgotten.
Custom sail by PO, btw;


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## Faster

emoney said:


> Who says Bayliner didn't make some cute boats;


Big difference between the Mull and Peterson Buccaneer/US boats and the earlier Buccaneer line...












bobperry said:


> I drew this 21'er for myself thinking it was the smalest boat that would satisfy my cruising needs.


Bob.. that's pretty.. any plans to build one?


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## bobperry

Fast:
Thank you.
No. I have a nice 26'er now. I just wanted to see how small I could go and preserve the features I enjoy with my 26'er. I like, small simple boats.


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## zedboy

bobperry said:


> Fast:
> Thank you.
> No. I have a nice 26'er now. I just wanted to see how small I could go and preserve the features I enjoy with my 26'er. I like, small simple boats.


I think it might surprise a lot of people that someone who designed the "dream big boat" for so many people chooses to sail a smaller boat.

...

I think our boat qualifies as a micro-cruiser - 24'10" overall, 23.5' on deck. She's wood and has a beam under 7' so not very spacious inside. The PO used to cruise with his wife on Lake Ontario, but we have just daysailed so far. I think any cruising we do with all the kids is gonna be from B&B to B&B...not that I have any problem with that...


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## zeta

My little boat.


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## CalebD

Montgomery 15' Montgomery 15 sailboat for sale
Montgomery 17' Montgomery 17, 1977, Durango, Colorado, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas
Here is a trip blog of a couple of nuts sailing a Compac 16' across the Bay of Florida/Everglades: Adventure Vista - A View Into Our World of Adventure
Some of these little boats go long distances.
The Montgomerys cost more then my 27 footer did.


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## Ajax_MD

Now that's micro. Sheese, my previous Coronado 25 is too big for this thread. Still, I totally identify with the OP's sentiments-

Cheaper, easy to handle, can squeak into shallow, narrow places. I'm actually looking forward to trying out my Hobie 16 this summer, and running it up onto the beach.


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## Faster

In the 80s Webb Chiles did some major passages (nearly a circumnav) in an OPEN 18 footer.. Drascombe Lugger










From Wikipediea:



> Between 1978 and 1984, Webb Chiles sailed round most of the world in his Luggers Chidiock Tichborne I and Chidiock Tichborne II.[16][17] Starting in California in Chidiock I, he crossed the Pacific, then the Indian Ocean, before heading into the Red Sea. Near Vanuatu during the Pacific crossing, the boat capsized during bad weather, then drifted for two weeks while he was unable to bail his flooded boat. After becoming damaged, Chidiock I was seized by the Saudi Arabian authorities when Chiles was arrested on suspicion of being a spy. Chiles had a new Lugger, Chiddiock II, shipped to him in Egypt. This he sailed south to cross his previous track and then through the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean Sea out into the Atlantic to La Palma in the Canary Islands. Leaving the boat briefly to visit Tenerife, he returned to find that she had capsized at her mooring in a storm. Finding that he had lost a lot of gear, Chiles decided to end his attempt at circumnavigating in an open boat.


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## CapnBilll

Faster said:


> In the 80s Webb Chiles did some major passages (nearly a circumnav) in an OPEN 18 footer.. Drascombe Lugger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Wikipediea:


Hmmm capsized at a mooring? Thats when you know it's TOO small.


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## smallboatlover

faster hows bigs that boat you posted with the 6 port lights?


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## smallboatlover

and zed dam double master on a 24'. and sorry i don't catorgrize that small cruiser. 
22' and under


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## bljones

I'm kinda liking these:

A Jarcat 6: trailerable, ply construction, decent accomodations:


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## smallboatlover

jones those are so cool i saw a 20' or a 22' like that for sail the guy wanted 10k tho crazy. what size it that jones?


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## bljones

6 meters- about 20'


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## Faster

smallboatlover said:


> faster hows bigs that boat you posted with the 6 port lights?


That's a Buccaneer 240.. but don't go there. Those are some of the worst "sailboats" ever launched. Very much a product of the first gas crunch, too much freeboard, underballasted, as soon slide sideways as go to weather, and ugly as sin.....(JMO, of course) They made 21s, 24s, perhaps a 28 and a 32 IIRC.


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## RXBOT

I have a 7 metre ,22 foot 9 50 year old MORC design sloop. You have to be a minamalist, flush deck not much headroom. Really like Perrys 21 footer but would want to streach it to 26 or 28 with 8 foot 6 beam. Then it would be all the boat I would ever need.


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## upei1

ok, one more, a foot too long. Another tempest, this one is a 65.


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## smallboatlover

thats a 65'?? ^^^^^


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## Squidd

6.5 meter


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## bljones

1965.


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## tom3215

...... talk about dumb..... Im working on boat #2. I love my Catalina 22. Perfect boat for what it is. Sleep around from one hot spot to another as time and desire permits. Then put it away till next time. 

...... Then....get get the 30 to 32 foot cruiser you can keep in the marina but still wont kill
you, perhaps a Contessa 32, or Tartan 30 or 31.

Always room for one more sail boat ( just dont forward this to my wife)

tom3215


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## smallboatlover

lol tom how much you pay for your 22?


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## bljones

upei1 said:


> ok, one more, a foot too long. Another tempest, this one is a 65.


Tempests seem to photograph well, don't they?


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## bljones

How about Sirens?


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## tom3215

...small boat lover. $5800 for the catalina 22 about 1 year ago, 1986, galvanized trailer,
6hp long shaft yamaha, new genoa, radio, lighted compay , stern rails, bow pulpit, galvanized trailer with good tires. Very good to excellent cond. Keel bolt, cable and bushing replaced. 

happy sailing 
tom3215


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## Faster

bljones said:


> How about Sirens?


Great Canadian small starter!

Some more: Edel 665










And if we're inching towards 24 ft... the ubiquitous Shark


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## smallboatlover

jones that cranky boats a sirens 17 right? i saw a sirens on sale on criagslist good price. but didn't look any thing like that boat that boats beatifull.


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## tom3215

.....that Shark 24 looks very nice along with Jones "Cranky". Ive never seen either in the flesh. Love looking at another mans posessions, especially when they look real nice and well taken care of !! Good job!

tom3215


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## bljones

I have never seen another Siren that looks as nice as "Cranky." She has had a ton of work invested. I'd love to take credit, but she belongs to another Dock Sixer. Word on the street is that Cranky may be coming up for sale, as the owners have bought a Siren's big sister, a Sirius 22.
Speaking of which:

Sirius 21/22:









Tanzer 22:


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## smallboatlover

theres a sirius for sail near me but they want 6500 so no go for me  i like the boat cranky though. i love the idea of having such a small boat like a 17' but it have a cabin and the ability to weekend on


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## PaulfromNWOnt

When you see one you like, don't be afraid to take a look or knock on doors. You'd be surprised how many folk are thinking of parting with the "old girl" in the driveway. You'd be even more surprised at the prices they go for. If you're in Rhode Island, there are plenty of small boats on the eastern seaboard that go for reasonable prices. You sound like you have the desire, all you need is time.

As to the original intent of the thread:


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## smallboatlover

o i have to deal with my two boats before i get another. i have a 16' sailboat right now


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## ccriders

Easily one of the finest, saltiest pocket cruisers to sail where ever your heart takes you can be seen here: http://www.samlmorse.com/?a=fc_home.
There is one a few slips down from me and unfortunately is becoming one of those abandoned, never used boats. Five years ago the owner splashed her but never put up the mast. Some of the turnbuckles are hanging in the water and are destroyed. A sad state of affairs.
It is an intriguing little boat.
Joohn


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## CrazyRu

http://microcruising.com/


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## AdamHowie

I second the Edel....


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## skygazer

Those mentioned are mostly pocket cruisers, not micro cruisers.

Here's one I call the "ship in a bottle" because it's so tiny, a Victoria 18. My wife and I have actually been able to sleep on it for up to a week. We are both tough! Once you crawl in, you need to come back out just to change your mind. 

Sunrise:


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## pdqaltair

*While over 22 feet, my Stiletto did make the cut ...*

... in the book "Cruising on a Micro Budget." At 1200 pounds, it is light as most entries, and the accommodations are more limited than most:
Sail Delmarva: The Stiletto 27 - You Can Actually Sleep in That?

And I did some multi-day cruising with my Prindle 16, but I was younger and that was camping!


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## mikieg

have you folks ever looked at the stevenson's projects "the weekender", or "the vacationer" homebuilts? they remind me alot of what this thread is all about. i have a W.D. Schock Santana 525, which at 24.5 feet it feel it is a mini cruiser. i am considering getting her little brother the Santana 20. so now, with these neat little cruisers, where would you take one of these? the bahamas? the carribean? i have always said, water is water. any boat can go anywhere as long as you sail her within the environmental envelope of conditions she was built for.
who has taken their little boat where?


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## upei1

bljones said:


> Tempests seem to photograph well, don't they?


yes they do! It's the Rhode's design: beautiful sheer, low freeboard, just classic lines....I like what was done with the outboard....the gears in my head are spinning with a sudden new winter project........

Some of the others here are absolute beauts as well!!!! The Tanzer is a knockout and so is the "cranky" and the Edel>>>>


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## igorkiporouk

mikieg said:


> have you folks ever looked at the stevenson's projects "the weekender", or "the vacationer" homebuilts? they remind me alot of what this thread is all about. i have a W.D. Schock Santana 525, which at 24.5 feet it feel it is a mini cruiser. i am considering getting her little brother the Santana 20. so now, with these neat little cruisers, where would you take one of these? the bahamas? the carribean? i have always said, water is water. any boat can go anywhere as long as you sail her within the environmental envelope of conditions she was built for.
> who has taken their little boat where?


It is true. Look at Serge Testa's Acroch Australis, Sven Irvind's boats and his incredible trawels, Evgeny Gvozdew's circumnavigation. But i think they made these big trips with very small boats o for establish the record o because of lack of money and great desire of travel the sea. It is not for everybody.


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## JedNeck

I guess my Cal21 meets the requirements.


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## whughes

*Cape Dory 22*

Not the smallest in the Cape Dory line, but in my mind is the prettiest.


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## johnnyandjebus

The above Cape Dory 22 is one pretty little boat, reminds me of the alberg 22.



igorkiporouk said:


> It is true. Look at Serge Testa's Acroch Australis, Sven Irvind's boats and his incredible trawels, Evgeny Gvozdew's circumnavigation. But i think they made these big trips with very small boats o for establish the record o because of lack of money and great desire of travel the sea. It is not for everybody.


IGORK thanks for posting that.

From the website linked above;
_.
.
.
This guy made his boat by hanging it off the side of his apartment's balcony.
Everything is possible.
.
.
._

I want to live in that town. I'd catch [email protected] just for parking my boat in my driveway let alone build one while hanging it off my balcony. 

John


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## mikieg

there is a judge down in corpus christy municipal marina on morph dock that has a few cape dory boats less than 20 feet. i saw one get hauled out for bottom paint last spring. very nice looking boat indeed. the boats are owned by the local boyscout troop. he did say that they were selling one. as i recall, it seemed like they were not asking much for it at all. almost giving it away! i bet anyone that calls the marina could talk to peter and get in touch with the judge on that one. i know i'd love to have it!


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## n8kraft

My friends Eric and Jaime have a Falmouth 22' Cutter, Coconutz. It's an awesome pocket cruiser. The bowsprit makes the boat longer than 22' but the amenities are basic and for one or two people it can be an excellent cruising boat. It has a cutter rig, so its easy to increase or reduce sail area, and the rig is small enough to not be overpowering.http://sailing.486.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Coconutz.jpg


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## mikieg

anybody have any good pics of the interior of these little gems?
bow birth








setee quater birth and hanging locker on both sides








galley area and companionway








storage the the rear of the boat on both sides


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## Faster

Pacific Sea Craft always did/does a great job.. Here's a Flicka shot:










Here's an original Flicka brochure page:


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## mikieg

ok, now i am embarrassed! thanks for sharring. what boat is that faster?


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## Faster

mikieg said:


> ok, now i am embarrassed! thanks for sharring. what boat is that faster?


Don't be... That's the Flicka 20 I posted earlier.. would likely sell for nearly 10 times the price of your Santana.... (and you can sail circles around it!!)


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## mikieg

i like the looks of the racing profiles. they look shark like to me, very sexy. but my heart is in the cruiser. i love the interior and the ability to take them where ever you want to. who made the flicka? i know nothing about them.


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## mitiempo

The Flicka was made by Pacific Seacraft. Certainly one of the biggest small boats around.


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## JordanH

I've mentioned this before, but if you ever get the chance pick up one of my favourite 'day dream' books.
"Sailing Small: Inspiration and Instruction for the Pocket Cruiser" by Stan Grayson.
I spent hours and hours reading and re-reading that book while looking for my first sailboat. Getting ideas on how to go further on small boats.

The wife wasn't onboard for such a small a boat so we moved "up" to our big / little Contessa 26.


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## mikieg

i saw a contessa 26 on ebay for $6000. it was listed several times. noone ever made a bid on it. i thought it was a damned good boat. can you send pics of your contessa? or would that be hijacking?


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## bljones

Georgian 23 interior:


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## JordanH

mikieg said:


> i saw a contessa 26 on ebay for $6000. it was listed several times. noone ever made a bid on it. i thought it was a damned good boat. can you send pics of your contessa? or would that be hijacking?


I can't comment on the boat on eBay... it may or may not have been a good deal. The Contessa is a damned good boat You can check out The Contessa Corner - A site for Contessa owners, sailors and dreamers. for more info on them, there is a for sale section if you're interested in costs. Mine is #312.

Can I send pictures or would that be hijacking? Yes to both. I'll PM you.

To keep this on track, one of the boats from the book I mentioned above was a Paul Gartside 22' cutter... it's probably my favourite on those pages.

Gartside Boats - Custom Boatbuilding - 22ft Gaff Cutter "Surprise" Design*#95


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## mitiempo

Here's another pic of a Gartside cutter - he was a local but defected to the east.


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## JordanH

Yup, that's the exact boat in the book I believe. The one in the book has a grey hull.
East or West, still "local" to me. 

Another design I read about in the book, but have never had the pleasure of seeing in person, 22' Falmouth Cutter The Falmouth Cutter Web Site


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## mitiempo

Falmouth Cutters and Bristol Channel Cutters are built here now:Cape George Cutters § Port Townsend § Blue Water Boats § Cruising Custom Boat Building


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## mikieg

this thread has really opened my eyes to a few designs that are very respectable boats. i am currently looking at moving up to a 30 - 35 foot vessel. but remarkably, i might need to be lookin at going down to a 20 foot instead. very informative thread guys. thanks


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## souljour2000

Coming in as a pocket cruiser at 24-feet is my old Seafarer of 1971 vintage by McCurdy/Rhodes...she needed alot of work and I sold her after a year for about what I paid...700 bucks at a marina auction.


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## dinghycapn

*Tanzer 22*

Here's our little girl. These pictures are at the end of last season, all cleaned out. Looking at taking her out on Georgian bay for a week or two this summer.


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## Ajax_MD

bljones said:


> Georgian 23 interior:
> <images snipped for brevity>


Dude, I figured it out. Your boat is a Tardis. (obscure sci-fi reference)


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## bljones

Lol.


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## skygazer

souljour2000 said:


> Coming in as a pocket cruiser at 24-feet is my old Seafarer of 1971 vintage by McCurdy/Rhodes...she needed alot of work and I sold her after a year for about what I paid...700 bucks at a marina auction.


Nice! I recently bought one very similar. Did yours have a swing keel/centerboard? Mine does. Did you sail her? How did she handle?

I set your photo as a desktop background, but the image remained small. Could you PM me a lager image? I'm interested in how to do the rigging. I have the mast and rigging but won't even think about rigging her till winter is long gone here in Maine. Any other rigging photos would be appreciated.

I'm kind of excited about the possibilities.


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## souljour2000

Here's another of the '71 Seafarer 24 interior...I added a halfway decent floor to her but hadn't finished painting the inside of the starboard sole/hull area when this was taken..I loved her stout, well-seasoned compression post...I miss that boat alot...just not the 4'11 headroom...


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## crewless

*Balboa 20*

Here's my first and only sailboat, a 1972 Balboa 20. 
Just got it in August, took ASA101 for confidence, and Started sailing. 
It's what I'm learning on for a couple of years before either getting something larger, or getting out altogether. The latter isn't likely, we're loving sailing so far.


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## yordanrusev

*Oooodiiiiiin*

Hi.I'm here for thr first time and hurry to show my last boat-a litle,beautiful, 22ft.gaff "Odin".I made her from armocement-most cheap and fast way to make a boat and go to sail.She was a litle more heavy,but very stable under strong wind and short waves in Black Sea.


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## mikieg

guitars and sailboats just go together dont they?


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## WDS123

Mike,

Some of these make your Santana 525 seem palatial.


I love these small boats - sailing should always be about the simple life. These boast represent the simple virtues.


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## mikieg

i really think my boat i pretty spartan in nature. there is a love for simple. after looking at this thread, the santana 20 looks even more appealing!
the harbor 25 seems like a condominium!


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## skygazer

mikieg said:


> guitars and sailboats just go together dont they?


Absolutely! Kind of hard to stow in a micro cruiser, but worth it when you anchor for the evening. And using no electric power you can provide your own relaxation and music, which does feel a bit like sailing. Last summer we got a "boat guitar" for $50. It's a used guitar with a plywood top, accurate fretboard, and remarkably good sound, something we don't have to worry about and for which we can use a garbage bag as a "case". Keeps the package smaller.

We set up a tarp and camped on shore during a series of terrific night time thunderstorms, really nice to have the guitar in the camp. I think it rained every single day of our week's vacation, but fortunately not all day. Nice sunrise each day.


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## mikieg

the best recordings were done aboard my boat. i guess the space is accousticly perfect. the best part is the sounds of the seagulls in the back ground!


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## JordanH

*sigh* I just got back from my third trip to the Toronto boat show. The smallest cruiser was a "gigantic" and spacious 28' TES... I don't count the Mini Transat boat that was there (6.5M). They had small dinghy's and a 22' Hunter day sailer, but nothing like what we love. Lots of Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Hunters and Catalina's... all 30-45'.

Nothing with character like the Contessa 26 or a Nordica/Halman 20' or a Falmouth Cutter or a folk boat ... You get the idea.

*sigh*


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## mikieg

was the golden era of "the every man's sailboat" back in the 70's and 80's? or were our boats everybit as expensive back then as these new ones are today?


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## JordanH

Having only contributed 3 years to the good of the 70's, and being too young to buy a boat in the 80's I wouldn't know... Having said that, I have the receipt from 1984 to see what the original owner paid for my boat and it wasn't much more than I paid for her in 2011!  Every bit as expensive as she is today - inflation excluded. ;-)

FWIW, my 1983 Contessa was *AT* the 1984 Toronto Boat Show. Too bad we don't see them there today.


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## WDS123

Prices of sailboats have stayed reasonably level as much as people think - inflation is difficult for us to assimilate:

For example a nicely outfitted Santana 20 sold for $8,000 in 1976. 

That is $30k in today's inflation adjusted dollars, which is less than a new Santana 20 sells for.


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## blt2ski

Redirect Notice

We'll see if that link/pic works. Probably one of the smallest cabin boat I have seen. Saw when I was 13-14 new, part of me wanted one.....then again, when a teenager, camping was fun, so it would work! The ol Guppy 13!

As mentioned, probably the 70's were the hayday of smaller affordable boats per say. Glen L design still has some smaller plywood boat, a 17 and 21' models. Step dad built a 21. San Juan 21 among others that were built and sold.........

Marty


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## blt2ski

If you want to build yourself we have the Pocketship with a review by one Mr Bob Perry......whom ever he is?!?!?!?

Also a review in Woodenboat #207.

Marty


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## fallard

For coastal cruising under reasonable conditions, there is always the catboat. The most popular sizes are 18' and 22'. These are beamy boats for their length and have large cockpits. The cabins are not for NBA types. The 18 footers will have a v-berth, a porta pottie, maybe a small counter, and not much storage space and will displace 2200-2500 lbs. A Marshall 2 would displace over 5000 lbs and get you into inboard power and more in the way of accommodations.

Almost all catboats have a centerboard, a mast far forward, and a single sail--usually a gaff rigged affair. They can stand up to stiff breezes, but you don't want to get into heavy seas that might poop you (that large cockpit can be a liability).

The 18 ft catboat I sold 15 yrs. ago had a draft of 1' 10" with the board up (5' board down). I have sailed this catboat numerous times to Block Island and have returned in winds on the order of 20 kts and was quite comfortable--except for the sore arm hanging on to the tiller with the weather helm these boats have.

One of the advantages of the catboat is the Catboat Association and the camaraderie among catboat people. Catboats are in the "cult" category and typically hold their value much better than other sailboats. Check out The Catboat Association, Inc. for more information.

I haven't owned a catboat for 15 years, but I still belong the the CBA and stay in touch with some of the friends I made many years ago.


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## Faster

JordanH said:


> *sigh* I just got back from my third trip to the Toronto boat show. The smallest cruiser was a "gigantic" and spacious 28' TES... I don't count the Mini Transat boat that was there (6.5M). They had small dinghy's and a 22' Hunter day sailer, but nothing like what we love. Lots of Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Hunters and Catalina's... all 30-45'.
> 
> Nothing with character like the Contessa 26 or a Nordica/Halman 20' or a Falmouth Cutter or a folk boat ... You get the idea.
> 
> *sigh*


Last year we went to the Seattle boat show and I happened to speak with the owner of Northstar (revived 'Nordic' Bob Perry boats). They had a 40 there and I asked if they had any plans to revive the original Nordic 34.. and was unequivocally told they could not make any money at that size. Even Catalina is streamlining their line and I think the 309 is the smallest keelboat they're building now.



mikieg said:


> was the golden era of "the every man's sailboat" back in the 70's and 80's? or were our boats everybit as expensive back then as these new ones are today?


We bought our second boat at the height of an insane real estate bubble (late 1981) here in Vancouver. Boats at that time followed housing (go figure) and I found a receipt on board later showing what had been paid for the boat 10 years prior.. less than a third of what we'd paid. That was the market then. It was not an expensive boat even then but still... at that time SJ24s were fetching 16-18K, CSBs were paying 18%... it was a crazy time.

Come to think of it, real estate's gone nuts here again, but this time the boat market didn't join the insanity.


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## bljones

JordanH said:


> *sigh* I just got back from my third trip to the Toronto boat show. The smallest cruiser was a "gigantic" and spacious 28' TES... I don't count the Mini Transat boat that was there (6.5M). They had small dinghy's and a 22' Hunter day sailer, but nothing like what we love. Lots of Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Hunters and Catalina's... all 30-45'.
> 
> Nothing with character like the Contessa 26 or a Nordica/Halman 20' or a Falmouth Cutter or a folk boat ... You get the idea.
> 
> *sigh*


It's funny, I just wrote up a quick review of the Magnam 28 on my blog. It is one impressive package. As far as the smallest cruiser, TES had a 27 footer there as well, and there was a Hunter Edge.

I think the challenge from a builder's standpoint is that the tooling, labour and hardware costs are pretty damn close for a 25' boat and a 32' boat- the only real sizable difference is raw material cost which is often one of the smallest costs. So, you can build an opulent and character -filled 25' boat that has damn little profit at $70K, or a 32' that will sell twice as many with a decent profit, at $100-$150K.
And then once you build it you need to find dealers willing to devote some square footage to selling it, and bigger boats mean bigger returns.
From a buyer's standpoint, in this age of monthly payments, the difference between a $75K boat and a $120K boat over 240 months isn't that big... and if you can't raise the downpayment for a $75K boat you sure as hell can't make the nut on anything bigger, so you start looking at the used market, and, instead of buying a new 25' boat, you discover that you can buy a well used 30' boat for the downpayment on that new 25 footer.

And everything is just plain bigger today, and what the "wants" of a generation ago are now considered "needs".


----------



## JordanH

WDSchock, Faster, bljones... yes, of course what you say is correct and the reasons are fully understood and rehashed time & again. Don't fall into the old rut of rehashing value and cost... microcruisers and pocket cruisers are about cool little boats that can go anywhere and things that are seemingly above their station.

I'm lamenting the extinction of the breed. We know why they are gone, but they are still gone from the mainstream and that's a little depressing.


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## mikieg

i can see where we have softened. our needs have gotten a bit out of hand. new boats are truely a thing to behold. i am thankful for the golden era. those boats are available today because the mature aged folks that had the money to buy them then are getting long in the tooth now. 
i am thankful that they were made as well as they were. many have survived quite well to support the secondary market today. those buying yesterdays boat today will one day be buying tomorrow's boats tomorrow!


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## WDS123

West Wright Potter is still making the Potters - which are the very model of pocket boats. 


BTW - the Harbor 25 might fit your definition - waterline is only 21'


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## skygazer

yordanrusev said:


> Hi.I'm here for thr first time and hurry to show my last boat-a litle,beautiful, 22ft.gaff "Odin".I made her from armocement-most cheap and fast way to make a boat and go to sail.She was a litle more heavy,but very stable under strong wind and short waves in Black Sea.


If you made your own boat, I'm very impressed!


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## mikieg

that bayliner buccaneer 22 looked pretty good. how are those?


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## emoney

mikieg said:


> that bayliner buccaneer 22 looked pretty good. how are those?


Mike the one I had was a fun little boat to sail. Very inexpensive to get into
and performed as well as could be expected. I think these are a Gary Mull
design so good little sailors. Of course, it's a Bayliner, entry-level boat so there
are fit/finish issues, but overall, worth every penny of what they can be had for.
Great boat to learn how to sail on, imho.


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## mikieg

i noticed that it was very easy on the eyes. it looked "cute". i can see how it can be unintimidating for new sailors to learn on it.


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## Squidd

All there "micro" boats look cute and cuddly and photograph well... till you put a person in the picture for "scale" and realize they have to walk on their knees to get to the head and look like a monkey humping a football sticking halfway out of the cockpit sailing the dang thing...


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## bljones

My 23' boat has 6' headroom and a bigger cockpit than, oh, say, a PY26. 

By the same token the Bucc 25 I just cut up had a whopping 5' of headroom, an enclosed head that one could not turn around in, and a v-berth that felt like a coffin and was only suitable for missionary position activity...if both participants were anorexic.


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## mikieg

you cut it up?


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## bljones

absolutely.


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## mikieg

as in chainsaw? this (although sometimes necessary) always saddens me. 
did you salvage anything good off it?


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## aeventyr60

How about the Dana 24?


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## Faster

I think the consensus here is that by 24 feet we're into "pocket cruisers" rather than the titled micro range, but that's another pretty, solid well executed boat by Pacific Seacraft.

Flicka's big sister:


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## CapnBilll

If you can put the mast up single handed, and ramp launch it, I would say it still fits.


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## skygazer

CapnBilll said:


> If you can put the mast up single handed, and ramp launch it, I would say it still fits.


I agree. If you can raise the mast with one hand, it's definitely a micro cruiser. 

Here is a photo of a sunrise after a night of storms. My wife and I slept on the boat at anchor. There is a tarp over the boom, we put gear under the tarp and slept in the micro cabin, then woke to an amazing and fast changing sunrise.










I can raise the mast with one hand!

You can't tell, but we are in a protected tiny cove, open to the east.


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## mikieg

i sure wish i could raise my mast one handed. it's tough with six hands! the only thing i hate about my boat. i am jealous of all those that can easily drop their mast to go under bridges and such.


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## Squidd

You might not be on big enough water if there are bridges in your micro boats way...


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## AllThumbs

Here's mine. DS20


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## sailortjk1

I saw this thread develop but did not have anything to add, than we went to the boat show last weekend and I fell in love with this little beauty.










Cornish Shrimper 19

Cornish Crabber 22

I don't know if they made the 12 pages of the thread already, but I would think that the Cornish Shrimper 19 and the Cornish Crabber 22 would be a fine addition to the group.


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## P8dawg

I hope that our 1976 Nowak & Williams "America" catboat is as much fun to sail, as it is to look at. She doesn't look very fast, but we have the Stiletto 27 for that.

http://home.comcast.net/~dldecker/nowakwilliams.jpg


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## cas206

SCAMP (another DIY option)

Small Craft Advisor - SCAMP PAGE


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## sevseasail

How about the Cape Dory Typhoon?

The did two versions of it; the daysailer and the weekender.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/piccapedory18113d.jpg


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## skygazer

sevseasail said:


> How about the Cape Dory Typhoon?
> 
> The did two versions of it; the daysailer and the weekender.
> 
> http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/piccapedory18113d.jpg


I've looked at both of them for sale around here in Maine. IIRC, the daysailer is NOT self bailing, any rain or sea water has to be pumped out. I'd never get one. They both look like they would sail nicely.

Be aware that the weekender (again, if I recall correctly) has the mast stepped in front of the cabin, so it would have to be lowered forward where there is not much length and very narrow.

Both have tiny dark cabins. They do have full keels and look quite stable.

Edit, Correction: I was looking at "Sea Sprites", not "Typhoons". See my correction with links a few posts down.


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## sevseasail

I always liked them; but they are not too common down here and for what I gathered they are not easy to launch from the trailer, so I stopped wanting one, I still think the lines are very nice for a full keel 18 Footer.


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## skygazer

sevseasail said:


> I still think the lines are very nice for a full keel 18 Footer.


Totally agree, beautiful lines! That's why I drove to look at them. If the weekender was stepped on the cabin top I'd own one. I want pleasure to look at, decent sailing, and ease of use.

I ended up filling that size need with a Victoria 18, a bit smaller, not as nice a keel, but a snap to lower and raise the mast and trailer.


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## sevseasail

skygazer said:


> I ended up filling that size need with a Victoria 18, a bit smaller, not as nice a keel, but a snap to lower and raise the mast and trailer.


I love the Victoria 18, I looked for that one too, but again, over here very hard to find. I like the lines of the Victoria even better, I think is a boat with some attitude.


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## skygazer

I see them for sale down your way, search craigslist. Here is a beauty near me:

18 Ft Victoria Sailboat

I'm tempted, but my wife will ask why I need two. She's a bit too practical. I only have four sailboats. 

Edit: Upon reflection, the Vic18 is the only boat I have that my wife ordered " I don't want you to ever sell that boat!"


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## c_witch

Hiee,

This is our 22 foot Yankee Condor undergoing a complete renovation. She was sadly neglected before we got her.

Basic info:
LOA 22 feet
Deck stepped mast
Swing keel
Aux power 7.5 hp Honda transom hung
6 gallon fuel cap.
20 gallon water tank
All lighting LED
Nav Primary via laptop w/gps puck ant running Linux and OpenCPN
Privacy head - MSD w/ 2.6 gallon holding tank + seaside pumpout
galley w/ sink,hand pump, ice box
large v-berth
port/strbrd aft 1/4 berths
tiller steerage w/ transom hung rudder
dual 150 amp hour house bank
VHF radio

Our cruising ground will be the Atlantic coast of the Maritimes of Canada
and perhaps the Caribbean Sea.

Anticipated inaugural splash date of May 2,2012

c_witch


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## skygazer

I need to make a correction, according to sailboat data the Cape Dory Typhoon is stepped on (or through?) the cabin top, not in front of the cabin, visible in the elevation drawing at this link:

TYPHOON 18 (WEEKENDER) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I don't know what I looked at, something very similar, or - doubtfully - they changed the location. I was looking at hull number #1 and #3 IIRC. Whatever I looked at had the mast in front of the cabin on the deck, something I'd never seen before.

Edit: I looked at Sea Sprites, similar looking and I guess I mixed up the names. Here is a link to the Sea Sprite on sailboat data:

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4473


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## skygazer

c_witch said:


> Hiee,
> 
> This is our 22 foot Yankee Condor undergoing a complete renovation. She was sadly neglected before we got her.
> 
> Basic info:
> LOA 22 feet
> Deck stepped mast
> Swing keel
> Aux power 7.5 hp Honda transom hung
> 6 gallon fuel cap.
> 20 gallon water tank
> All lighting LED
> Nav Primary via laptop w/gps puck ant running Linux and OpenCPN
> Privacy head - MSD w/ 2.6 gallon holding tank + seaside pumpout
> galley w/ sink,hand pump, ice box
> large v-berth
> port/strbrd aft 1/4 berths
> tiller steerage w/ transom hung rudder
> dual 150 amp hour house bank
> VHF radio
> 
> Our cruising ground will be the Atlantic coast of the Maritimes of Canada
> and perhaps the Caribbean Sea.
> 
> Anticipated inaugural splash date of May 2,2012
> 
> c_witch


I looked up your boat on the net and found nothing, you seem to be the only one offering information on it. Maybe you should start a thread about your boat so all the information can be gathered in one spot. You've got her looking nice!


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## bljones

c_witch said:


> Anticipated inaugural splash date of May 2,2012


You're late.


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## sailguy40

Pretty nice little boats shown in this thread. Although most shown are small or coastal cruisers and not really micro cruisers. Here is a hard core micro cruiser, it's called a Paradox and they have sailed as far as Bahamas more then once. This is the site of the designer and you can actually get the plans from him to build one. Microcruising in the Bahamas I seen this a while back and thought it might be a fun project to get into if I have the time.


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## skygazer

sailguy40 said:


> Pretty nice little boats shown in this thread. Although most shown are small or coastal cruisers and not really micro cruisers. Here is a hard core micro cruiser, it's called a Paradox and they have sailed as far as Bahamas Microcruising in the Bahamas


We need a new class for that one, perhaps "electron microscopic cruisers"!

I was looking at the "Elusion", not the larger, but tiny, "Paradox".


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## kwaltersmi

I recently blogged about my favorite micro/pocket cruisers here: Sail Far Live Free: Go Small and Go Now! 5 Pocket Cruisers to Take you Anywhere


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## Me Tarzan

bljones said:


> How about Sirens?


Would like to know more about this design. Looks simple, like a good lake boat with an occasional trip to the coast.


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## DivingOtter

My Santana2023


----------



## sailguy40

kwaltersmi said:


> I recently blogged about my favorite micro/pocket cruisers here: Sail Far Live Free: Go Small and Go Now! 5 Pocket Cruisers to Take you Anywhere


Good read! Those are some really nice pocket cruisers, sure is amazing that the Flicker has a 6,000 displacement at only 20ft.


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## Faster

sailguy40 said:


> Pretty nice little boats shown in this thread. Although most shown are small or coastal cruisers and not really micro cruisers. Here is a hard core micro cruiser, it's called a Paradox and they have sailed as far as Bahamas more then once. This is the site of the designer and you can actually get the plans from him to build one. Microcruising in the Bahamas I seen this a while back and thought it might be a fun project to get into if I have the time.


I think that takes us into the 'Nano cruiser' category!!


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## bljones

When you fart and it affects displacement, you might be on a microcruiser.
When pissing off the transom is a propulsion option, you might be on a microcruiser.
When you have to fold your nav station to create your berth to open up the mattress to use your galley while sitting on the head, you might be on a microcruiser.


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## bljones

Me Tarzan said:


> Would like to know more about this design. Looks simple, like a good lake boat with an occasional trip to the coast.


Sirens are like the VW van of microcruisers. Not quite as well equipped as a VW Westfalia camper, but able to do the job with some creative packing and packaging. The Siren is pump-out sanitation capable, has an optional boom tent, and IMO has protected more greenhorn sailors sailing at 11/10ths of their abilities than any other 17' boat. 
They are good value. $1500 will buy a usable boat on a trailer. $3500 will buy you an exceptional boat on a trailer. You can usually sell your Siren for 100% of the purchase price 2-3 years later- try that with any other cruiser.


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## puddinlegs

Moore 24.

MOORE SAILBOATS - Moore 24


----------



## Me Tarzan

bljones said:


> Sirens are like the VW van of microcruisers. Not quite as well equipped as a VW Westfalia camper, but able to do the job with some creative packing and packaging. The Siren is *pump-out sanitation capable*, has an *optional boom tent*, and IMO has protected more greenhorn sailors sailing at 11/10ths of their abilities than any other 17' boat.
> They are good value. $1500 will buy a usable boat on a trailer. $3500 will buy you an exceptional boat on a trailer. You can usually *sell your Siren for 100% of the purchase price* 2-3 years later- try that with any other cruiser.


I guess I will keep an eye out. Thanks for the info.


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## kwaltersmi

bljones said:


> When you fart and it affects displacement, you might be on a microcruiser.
> When pissing off the transom is a propulsion option, you might be on a microcruiser.
> When you have to fold your nav station to create your berth to open up the mattress to use your galley while sitting on the head, you might be on a microcruiser.


Very good! :laugher


----------



## sailguy40

bljones said:


> When pissing off the transom is a propulsion option, you might be on a microcruiser.


This could be an advantage.  If you have engine trouble, as long as you have plenty water and poweraide or whatever else, you can get her moving. No fuel required sir! Hopefully when you get to a dock no women are around to see the alternative method of propulsion. :laugher


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## PaulfromNWOnt

sailguy40 said:


> Hopefully when you get to a dock no women are around to see the alternative method of propulsion. :laugher


I don't know about that.... if you've got what it takes to propel a boat, perhaps they'd like a closer look at the "motor".


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## skygazer

PaulfromNWOnt said:


> I don't know about that.... if you've got what it takes to propel a boat, perhaps they'd like a closer look at the "motor".


Anything would look big in a boat that small.


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## Me Tarzan

skygazer said:


> Anything would look big in a boat that small.


Another PRO to top the list for microcruising!


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## sevseasail

Only you guys can turn a Microcruiser thread into a large genitalia thread.....


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## c_witch

bljones said:


> You're late.


 Yes the water tank took a bit longer the anticipated to get installed due to cooler temperatures. I am looking at June 2nd now. That may or may not happen as today I set the outboard up on my stand at home and went to fire it up only do discover that the engine fuel disconnect is leaking and has to be replaced. Finding one may be a problem as the engine is an 85 Honda . None the less we are down to the last bit in the restoration and only need to paint the cockpit and install the keel winch and keel pivot bolt as well as run the wiring the the mast for the anchor light and vhf.

c_witch


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## Me Tarzan

bljones said:


> Sirens are like the VW van of microcruisers. Not quite as well equipped as a VW Westfalia camper, but able to do the job with some creative packing and packaging. The Siren is pump-out sanitation capable, has an optional boom tent, and IMO has protected more greenhorn sailors sailing at 11/10ths of their abilities than any other 17' boat.
> They are good value. $1500 will buy a usable boat on a trailer. $3500 will buy you an exceptional boat on a trailer. You can usually sell your Siren for 100% of the purchase price 2-3 years later- try that with any other cruiser.


You were dead on with that information. I found a Siren with trailer pretty local and so far got the price down to $1500. It is sail ready, but would need A LOT of elbow grease to get it where I would actually enjoy using it. Guess I need to take measurements and see if the trailer will fit in my garage and make a decision. Could be a nice little starter boat for the local lakes with the main intent being to get the wife hooked!


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## Ulladh

Photographs by Rythmdoctor of my Havsfidra 20, 20ft with a 4ft draft 1,000# lead keel. Slow but steady.


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## MarkCK

skygazer said:


> I see them for sale down your way, search craigslist. Here is a beauty near me:
> 
> 18 Ft Victoria Sailboat
> 
> I'm tempted, but my wife will ask why I need two. She's a bit too practical. I only have four sailboats.
> 
> Edit: Upon reflection, the Vic18 is the only boat I have that my wife ordered " I don't want you to ever sell that boat!"


The Victoria 18 is a sharp looking little boat. I have never even heard of it and I thought that I was pretty well versed in pocket cruisers.


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## bljones

McVay built some pretty, pretty boats. There are usually at least 2 Mcvays on our dock during the season-
Victoria 18 Forum Web Site


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## captain jack

mikieg said:


> i can see where we have softened. our needs have gotten a bit out of hand. new boats are truely a thing to behold. i am thankful for the golden era. those boats are available today because the mature aged folks that had the money to buy them then are getting long in the tooth now.
> i am thankful that they were made as well as they were. many have survived quite well to support the secondary market today. those buying yesterdays boat today will one day be buying tomorrow's boats tomorrow!


or, in my case, sailing yesterday's boat tomorrow.


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## captain jack

blt2ski said:


> Redirect Notice
> 
> We'll see if that link/pic works. Probably one of the smallest cabin boat I have seen. Saw when I was 13-14 new, part of me wanted one.....then again, when a teenager, camping was fun, so it would work! The ol Guppy 13!
> 
> Marty












a real micro cruiser.


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## captain jack

Ulladh said:


> Photographs by Rythmdoctor of my Havsfidra 20, 20ft with a 4ft draft 1,000# lead keel. Slow but steady.


i came across one of those outfitted with a balanced lug sail, on the web. it was pretty cool.


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## Caribbeachbum

The boat sails beautifully. But it's the interior layout that makes it feel so much bigger than it actually is. Also, a foot or so too big for the OP's criteria...


----------



## aeventyr60

One of the intrepid voyagers here sailed from Australia on this:


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## travellerw

Here is my "learner" boat.. I was itching to get out this spring (notice the snow).


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## TakeFive

captain jack said:


> i came across one of those outfitted with a balanced lug sail, on the web. it was pretty cool.


I took those pictures of Ulladh's sloop two years ago. Earlier this year he re-rigged it as balanced lug. So maybe those other pictures were his boat after the modification.


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## captain jack

TakeFive said:


> I took those pictures of Ulladh's sloop two years ago. Earlier this year he re-rigged it as balanced lug. So maybe those other pictures were his boat after the modification.


wow. that would be a pretty wild small world type event.

Holy Marconi, Batman! It is the same vessel (i went and checked)! what are the chances of that? well, at this point, about 100%.

this is it:

[URL=http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/devilknight69/media/lugsailcruiser.jpg.html]

i love it. would love to hear how she sails.


----------



## Multihullgirl

the Miss Cindy

Travels with Miss Cindy. Adventures with a 16' Microcat cruiser.


----------



## TakeFive

Multihullgirl said:


> the Miss Cindy
> 
> Travels with Miss Cindy. Adventures with a 16' Microcat cruiser.


Two masts?


----------



## asdf38

Benetau First 235. Fast, with an enclosed head, galley and an aft cabin:


----------



## TakeFive

asdf38 said:


> Benetau First 235. Fast, with an enclosed head, galley and an aft cabin:


Pocket cruiser? Yes.

Micro cruiser? I don't think so.


----------



## captain jack

how about a swaggie?

http://atomictoasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/swaggie-2007.jpg

http://jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/swaggie/


----------



## skygazer

captain jack said:


> how about a swaggie?
> 
> http://atomictoasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/swaggie-2007.jpg
> 
> SWAGGIE - John Welsford Designs


Now that is interesting and different, food for thought! I like that it has a lead keel. Big displacement for such a small boat.


----------



## captain jack

skygazer said:


> Now that is interesting and different, food for thought! I like that it has a lead keel. Big displacement for such a small boat.


yeah. i think it's pretty cool. it's definately compact but, designed with voyaging in mind.


----------



## mr_f

This guy is fantastic.



> I said I had designed it to be legal width for trailering but for various reasons ended up this way.


----------



## captain jack

that had to have been a real job getting that up there.


----------



## TakeFive

mr_f said:


> This guy is fantastic.


One quick emergency stop and that boat is flyin' forward. I wouldn't want to be in the car in front of him if that happens.


----------



## TQA

17 pages on micro cruisers and no mention of Phil Bolger. Maybe I missed it. Anyway here is one of his more mainstream designs.










and one that is from far out in left field.


----------



## skygazer

TQA said:


> 17 pages on micro cruisers and no mention of Phil Bolger....


Is that one of the expen$ive modern high tech super light fabric sails?


----------



## captain jack

TQA said:


> 17 pages on micro cruisers and no mention of Phil Bolger. Maybe I missed it. Anyway here is one of his more mainstream designs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and one that is from far out in left field.


the hull of that second boat reminds me of a PD racer...some of which have been built with cabins and fit the micro-cruiser catagory.


----------



## BeJewel

glad i went to the end. way cool!


----------



## Morild

Here is small Danish classic. The Drabant 22. (6.6 m)
It was orignially launched in 1968 and, a couple of hundred were built until the mid 70'es.
They sail extremely well, and can still win trophys in local club matches.


----------



## Tallswede

I guess my Hunter 23.5 falls right on the line between micro & pocket cruiser. With it's water ballast system and 18" draft board up I can go places lots of others won't. A blue water boat she is not but coastal and gunk holing outings are what this boat does well. Very roomy cockpit and bunks even for me at 6'4". 

Kevin


----------



## strattm

Hi; You may of heard from me in another post since I recognize the picture of the Vic 18. I have one with a rudder problem. Do you have yours still? Mike


----------



## westerly winds

No mention of Westerly Warwick 21.5? I just bought one. 5'10" headroom , twin 850 lb bilge keels


----------



## pdqaltair

Farrier F-22

Wouldn't you like to cruise at 8-15 knots instead of 3-5 knots? (I'd have nominated my good old F-24, in my avitar,but it's 2 feet too long.) The bunks are pretty good, there's a stove, and easy room to carry a pair of kayaks on the wings.


----------

