# Inexpensive Foul Weather Gear



## ggooch (Feb 5, 2010)

As the weather starts to warm up in the midwest, I am getting ready for my first season with a new to me boat. I know the first couple of months will be relatively cool. Do any of you have a good source for relatively inexpensive foul weather/warm gear? 

Thanks,
Geoff


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

As weather warms up, ski gear like Columbia gets cheaper and goes on clearance. I find that the outer shells are ok with some 303 waterproofing applied to 'em. Not quite foulies, but do the job.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Nightowl is right, find something non-marine for the moment. If you can't afford quality foul weather gear, wait until you can - the bargain stuff is only a bargain on the day you buy it.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Costco in Canada occasionally has Wetskins at a good price. I got a set a couple of years for $49. I use them for golf, but I have seen them on charter boats.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

you may find that for the most part a layer of wicking tshirt, fleece, and a sweatshirt or hoody will do. 
For really rainy weather, a slicker will do until you learn what you need. 

Ski, mountain and hiking gear can often be had on sale and will do the major work for you.

Columbia, eddie bauer and REI, often have spring sales that are easy on the pocket book.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

We will have to see It never really warmed up in 2009 for any lenth of time and is the first season in years i can recall using the heavy gear all season


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## sahara (Dec 15, 2006)

If you can get Gore-tex on clearance, go for it - it really is better than non-gore-tex wet gear.

As I found out some years ago, in truly lousy weather, ski/climbing gear is not the same as FWG. If you find yourself doing a lot of night sailing in cold, crappy weather, you will eventually break down and buy true foulies.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Oh come on, how come nobody has mentioned Grundens? 

Grundens. It's what fishermen wear. It doesn't look "yachty" but it also doesn't leak, and doesn't cost you a whole ship ton of money.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I am also totally ready to debate the greatness of gore-tex. Notably as a shoe lining material. Theoretically your feet can sweat, and you can walk in the rain, and your feet stay dry. This is so far from the case that half way through a 2-week backpacking trip in the Olympics I was wrapping plastic bags around my socks. So much for gore-tex!


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*So true.*



tager said:


> I am also totally ready to debate the greatness of gore-tex. Notably as a shoe lining material. Theoretically your feet can sweat, and you can walk in the rain, and your feet stay dry. This is so far from the case that half way through a 2-week backpacking trip in the Olympics I was wrapping plastic bags around my socks. So much for gore-tex!


Gore Tex works when ...

* It is clean. Dirt allows water to wick through. So shoes are not too successful, or rather not for heavy use in mud.
* It is not wet. It can only breath when there is free surface. If the water repentant coating goes or it is really raining, it can't breath through a layer of water. You might as well just have coated gear.

The only reason reason to look for Gore-tex rain wear is for misty weather (or spray - hence the appeal) and because it is generally an indicator of quality in other things. It is good, within its window... and they've really done a good job on the marketing!

Cheap gear? A thrift store. Honestly, you would be amazed what you can find at a good one. Found a North Sails suit from someone who had quit sailing and probably never sailed in the rain! ALL of the Gore-tex rainwear I keep on my boat - 3 sets - came from a thrift store. I picked up the habit when my kids were growing and I wanted good stuff for them, even if it wouldn't fit long. Skates, skis, and so forth. It is also amazing the extent to which the people shopping at these stores don't know what they are looking at. They just want a Nike logo on a sweatshirt.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

I hear you!! We gave up on Gore-Tex and it's clones; bought "against the elements" cheapo gear when Boaters World was going down, and found it the best value for the $$ we'd done in a while. Buy shoreside gear until you've had enough experience to distinguish the marine brands.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Go to your local Tractor Supply Company (TSC) store.

Tractor Supply Company - Men's Rainwear


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

pdqaltair, thank you for clearing that up. I never knew that gore tex won't breathe when it is wet. I guess that it makes sense considering that the vapor pressure necessary to push the water vapor through the film would have your suit blowing up like a balloon before it would breathe. 

I am still a fan of grundens though, looks cheap, but keeps you dry. 

Also, Frog Togs are surprisingly nice, probably more for light weather though.


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## bonnelaine (Sep 18, 2007)

*inexp foul weather gear*

just watch the crab fisherman in alaska

go to a contractos supply or tractor farm supply and buy yourself the vinyle bibs and coat with the built in hood .

get a little oversize that will allow you to layer fleece liners insulated long johns etc and enjoy for prob less than 100.00 
fair winds 
greg 
bonnelaine 
pearson 323 
lake ontario


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## ggooch (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow. Thanks everyone for your answers. I have been lurking here alot in the last year and am just now starting to ask questions. You have all given me tons of information to what I thought might be a quiet little topic, turns out not so much.

Geoff


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

I agree with the frog toggs for warmer weather. It keeps the kids on deck and working when the weather takes a turn.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

How about wearing what California crab fishermen wear? Anyone can crab off an 80 foot power boat&#8230; It takes skill to do it off a 34' sailboat (and a Catalina at that!). But seriously, I don't think what the guys wear on the "Dangerous Catch" would work on a sailboat. First, we don't have a dryer to dry out the sweatshirts etc. Second, we don't have a heated space to warm up between pots. And third, we don't have the room to stand around - usually we're crammed in around winches and fittings that love to snag clothing. I'd like to hear of anyone's FIRSTHAND experience sailing with this kind of fishing gear (pics or it didn't happen). I am fortunate to be able to afford decent foulies. I follow the layered method using capline, suplex, and polar fleece under the shells which keeps me pretty warm. My biggest problem is my hands and feet and lately I've taken to wearing neoprene and liners which give me warmth and mobility. Best fowl weather investment was the $5 polar fleece jacket I picked up on the West Marine remnant rack.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

George - I am with you on this one.

I do not have to worry about cleaning crab guts from my foulies.

I sail in Canada, and I have sailed every month of the year. My favourite two investments are a dry tech fleece which really does dry quickly and my Helly Hanson Offshore pants with kevlar bum and knees. I would love to get some BuBarry boots, but have settled for Sperry Fathoms which really do breath.

The only fisherman "trick" to which I adhere is good old heavy rubber gloves with liners when it is wet and cold.

Great shot - I have a similar one in my old HH gear.










Jack


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

Before Gore Tex was invented I sailed about 25,000 miles offshore in fisherman's gear from the old Fulton Supply store near Wall Street in NY. That's all anyone wore in those days. The store is long since gone, a victim of real estate prices in that area, but the concept of buying fishermen's gear was what the offshore sailors did then and I still do. I have little use for gore Tex. In the 80's the owner of the boat I was racing to Bermuda got everyone a great deal on name brand stuff and I must say I have never been so wet and miserable as on that race, which was far from the roughest one I have been on. And, yes, I know, they've improved it since, but it still isn't good enough. Even the the Name brand one I got recently for about four hundred $ is useless in real wet stuff.

I would never go to sea with only a Gore Tex FWG. I'll bring one for damp evenings but when it is really pouring rain or green water is coming aboard, give me the rubber stuff every time. Yes, it may get you damp with sweat on the inside, but it doesn't soak you through and through like the leaky Gore TEx. And of course it doesn't cost nearly a thousand bucks for a fancy offshore suit.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Genieskip, Now, was that 1980 or 1880? And what were you wearing, oilskins?  Ahh, the '80s and '70s&#8230; I was much younger then and I could handle cold wet and clammy much better than now. My gear from then was waterproofed nylon and I didn't need a leak to be completely soaked by the end of my watch. Nothing like sleeping in wet gear - not. It is beyond me how you can stay dry in the gear the TV crab men wear. I prefer the tightly sealed cuffs and neck of my jacket and the hood that stays on even in a blow. I agree, you have to take care of the "modern stuff" You can't let the salt stains set in the fabric. I rinse mine out after passages or an especially wet race weekend. So come on, post a pic! I'm dying to see you in a south wester!


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

GeorgeB said:


> Genieskip, Now, was that 1980 or 1880? And what were you wearing, oilskins?  Ahh, the '80s and '70s&#8230; I was much younger then and I could handle cold wet and clammy much better than now. My gear from then was waterproofed nylon and I didn't need a leak to be completely soaked by the end of my watch. Nothing like sleeping in wet gear - not. It is beyond me how you can stay dry in the gear the TV crab men wear. I prefer the tightly sealed cuffs and neck of my jacket and the hood that stays on even in a blow. I agree, you have to take care of the "modern stuff" You can't let the salt stains set in the fabric. I rinse mine out after passages or an especially wet race weekend. So come on, post a pic! I'm dying to see you in a south wester!


I would have to post a painting cuz we didn't have photos in those days! And it was uphill through the snow both ways (barefoot too).

Seriously though, it was just fisherman's stuff. Got a set a couple of years ago in Nova Scotia in shocking pink. I love 'em and i wear 'em when it is serious out there. Actually an early set I got had the legs a bit too short and the legs rode up high enough to let the water get over the tops of the boots on the way to Bermuda, so in Hamilton I bought a flowery oilcloth tablecloth and sewed about four inches of the stuff to the bottom of the FWG pants. Kept the water out all the way to Copenhagen and for about ten years after that.

The big flaw with the fisherman stuff is that there are no cuffs on the jackets and sometimes the hoods can't be pulled tight. I've sewn velcro on the sleeves to close them tight and sometimes wear a Southwester. That way you can actually turn your head, like you can't with a hood.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Gentlemen, as much as I hate to interrupt a debate between old school and new school nautical fashionistas, let's establish a framework for the discussion based on the OP's needs.
He is in the midwest.
He is a trailer sailor.
He wants "inexpensive."
It's not like he is gonna be running outside from barnegat to lauderdale in january, ferpete's sake.

*Rant on*

Why does it seem like every damn question here gets answered with a solution based on the absolute-worst-case-scenario-think-as-if-you-are-going-offshore-this-is-serious-business-dammit model? It's like it becomes a game of "I can top that!" Give this thread another page and this poor guy will be convinced that he absolutely must not set sail in a mid- afternoon sunshower in July without donning a survival suit, a dry suit a wetsuit, a morning suit, a swimsuit, a zoot suit, be hirsute and all aboard must do the same to avoid a lawsuit.
Yes, the latest- technology $500 foulies are really high -tech and lightweight and breathe really nice and look really cool and have the right name on the left tit and are probably bluetooth enabled and wi-fi compatible and will make your boat point higher and four knots faster and you will be the envy of all who view you from the dock...
and slocum sailed around the world in wool and oilskins. 

*Rant off. Discuss amongst yourselves.*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One problem with the terrestrial stuff... It is often missing features that are marine specific, and that make a world of difference in the comfort you will have. 

For example, no terrestrial foul weather gear I've seen has inner cuffs that seal to your wrists... When you're reaching up to adjust a halyard, not having these internal cuffs means that the rain just pours down your arm and chills you pretty thoroughly. Having the cuffs means that your hand gets wet... but the rest of you stays nice and dry.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

SD, with all due respect, BS.
A good "terrestrial" raingear suit will have proper cuffs, because fixing a backhoe picking apples, and working on power lines requires a hell of a lot more reaching than winching a halyard once at the beginning and once at the end of a cruise. okay, maybe twice more if you reef twice.

Example: Carhartt Men's PVC Raincoat - 708487799 | Tractor Supply Company


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*It seems I climbed some frozzen waterfalls this winter, water still streaming down...*



sailingdog said:


> One problem with the terrestrial stuff... It is often missing features that are marine specific, and that make a world of difference in the comfort you will have.
> 
> For example, no terrestrial foul weather gear I've seen has inner cuffs that seal to your wrists... When you're reaching up to adjust a halyard, not having these internal cuffs means that the rain just pours down your arm and chills you pretty thoroughly. Having the cuffs means that your hand gets wet... but the rest of you stays nice and dry.


...and got by with "terrestrial" gear.  Your hands are over your head the whole time, ice climbing. The temperature was generally about 0 F and always below freezing.

It seems the jacket had tight cuffs and the gloves had gauntlets.

But I will admit, my gear was as tricked-out as any marine outfit, just different. An off-shore suit would be far too ungainly and bulky.

But on a trailer sailor around the coast? Man, anything reasonable and get the good stuff later.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*Sorry SD.... Couldn't help myself!*

Short of stating that it is now Saturday (in Virginia), there isn't any emphatic statement I could make either that wouldn't invite debate on Sailnet.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

Given the OP's question, my reaction would be to suggest a set of the cheap, yellow plastic columbia or stearns rain gear. It doesn't leak and is really cheap. The downside is that since it is cheap, it lacks features like cuffs.

Everytime Grundens come up, someone says they just can't imagine actually sailing in them. As someone who sailed commercially for 9 years, they have been much better for me than any yachtie stuff ever has. The fancy foulies would last a year with what I was doing so I gave up after the second pair. After a lot of use when the coating would start to wear out, once they would get wet, they would get extremely heavy and take a very long time to dry. Given their short lifespan, the pricetag was hard to stomach as well. I have had my current set of Grundens for 8 years now and they have been used at least as hard as the fancy stuff ever was. They simply do not leak and will keep you warm even if you have been dunked underwater and are soaked. They are actually much faster to dry out as there isn't much to get wet and they don't get really heavy because of this. There are two places that I feel they are inappropriate which are dinghy racing and sailing in very hot climates. Otherwise, I feel that they are the best foulies out on the market even excluding price.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

you may not be near a ski slope in the midwest but for those who are they often have an equipment swap in october sometime - you can often get screamingly good deals on clothes and equipment


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

BOOM. PICS IT DID HAPPEN.

Also, this image is direct from the grundens site.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

No matter where you are, if you are sitting per say in water, then rubber is the way to go! There are different thickness's of rubber too. If you do not use a lot, a thinner version will work, if you wear a lot, in rough conditions, then get the thickest stuff you can, new will be $50-100 ea per pant or coat, and well worth it! 

Personally, I have found for skiing, sailing etc, a rubber pant if really raining/wet etc is best, otherwise goretex works fine too. Tops, gore tex works until as mentioned, really wet, then it sucks (up) the water like a sponge! 

Reality is, for a daysailer, day racer for 4-8 hrs max, ay and most gear will work, until it rips or tears or equal.

The base layer, ie a wicking type underwear or above is nice. Do the layering routine too. I ski, sail, hike etc, in the same style and type of clothing. One does NOT need sailing gear form some types of sailing, ANY "foul" weather gear will work.

marty


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## adamavis (Sep 22, 2009)

frogg toggs.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Columbia outlet store had some very nice rain jackets on sale a few months back


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## Baywind (Dec 7, 2008)

I got a set of Third Reef on clearance at West Marine for $102 back in November. They are made by Gill I believe, and are really nice. They are re-released and back to full price now, but keep an eye out for a sale or used.

Craigslist is another place to keep an eye on.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

*Beore I go out and spend $500 on a foulie jacket*

I'm trying this.










Picasa Web Albums - donn.christianson - New Album 3/1...

This is a Gore Tex lined Roadcrafter riding suit. I'm not suggesting you guy one unless you have a lot of money or a motorcycle too.

It's kept me bone dry and warm at 80mph in pouring rain.

All the pockets are waterproof -- all of 'em.

It's also vented.

I've used it as a snowboarding and skiing suit.

I've slept in it.

And yes, that is a picture of me standing in a waterfall on Orcas Island in 1995.

I paid $800 for that suit in 1996. It's still going strong.

I can put in on in 15 seconds.

If it can work for foul weather gear, why buy two things? I love repurposing stuff.

Don't start to tell me what's wrong with it unless you own one.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One thing that is wrong with it is that it has no retroreflective patches on it. While these can be added, if you were to fall overboard in that sucker at night, you'd be almost impossible to spot.



blackjenner said:


> I'm trying this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> One thing that is wrong with it is that it has no retroreflective patches on it. While these can be added, if you were to fall overboard in that sucker at night, you'd be almost impossible to spot.


Sorry for the chopped up post...smart phone...

Yes it does have great scotchbright. No its not perfect. Few things are. Every choice can be criticized.

Because the primary design is a riding suit, it has a huge bright stripe across the upper back, some on the chest and on the calves. Besides, and this will help, the pfd will be reflective too.

It's far from perfect. Anyone can criticize, especially with edge cases and worst case scenarios, as has been pointed out, but its worth a try to see if repurposing gear is safe and makes sense.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

adamavis said:


> frogg toggs.


Those are great


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

Hmmm, reflective stripes across the back and calves....would that be useful if you're floating face down?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Patches on the shoulders, arms and chest are a bit more useful. Most people don't do well head down or face down in stormy waters... 



blackjenner said:


> Yes it does.
> 
> Because the primary design is ariding door, it has a huge stripe across the back and on the calves. Besides the pfd will be reflective too.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Patches on the shoulders, arms and chest are a bit more useful. Most people don't do well head down or face down in stormy waters...


Excellent point and well taken. This is why I'll be sure to augment what it is with reflective characteristics on the PFD and possibly gloves with reflective backs (I think I have a pair).

Now this thread was about inexpensive gear and this does not answer that question. I'm not saying someone guy one of these. They are expensive. When I first started riding, I wore substandard gear and it took me quite a few years to understand that I didn't have to be wet, cold and miserable to ride a motorcycle.

However, until I find exactly the gear I'm happy with (and I'm damn picky), this should serve the interim purpose well. Overall, I think it will work.

Oh, and I used my wrestling shoes as performance driving shoes for a week's hi perf driving course once. That worked well too.

Should I mention the 12v heated jacket too, or would that be too much?


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

bljones said:


> Gentlemen, as much as I hate to interrupt a debate between old school and new school nautical fashionistas, let's establish a framework for the discussion based on the OP's needs.
> He is in the midwest.
> He is a trailer sailor.
> He wants "inexpensive."
> ...


Brilliant. Sailors are cheap SOBs who will pinch their own dime until it screams. But they love to spend other people's money for them.:laugher

*Axiom:* In any discussion of sailing gear, a prospective buyer will always be urged toward the most expensive option, whether it fits their needs or not.

Frogg Toggs get excellent reviews. Some people sail in Tyvek coveralls with the cuffs taped shut. About $5 and good for a season, unless you are pushed overboard for sounding like a human potato chip bag. I use basic outdoor rain clothes urethane-coated nylon jacket and pants. Tight elastic cuffs, stowable hood with toggled drawstring. Not as good as HH or Gill, but dead waterproof and $22 for the whole suit. On a warm day, you will get clammy. If we fall overboard in Lake Hattie (1 mile by 3), lacking reflective tape, we shall have to shout and wave at passing cars and trust to God. Or stand up and walk to shore. Whichever.


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