# New Honda 2.3 outboard not running



## CaribDream

Just got this motor about a month ago. It ran fine the first times out. Today, third use, it will only run half throttle or above on half choke. Even when warm, it now needs full choke to start. It will not idle without immediately stalling on any choke setting. On half choke, half throttle it runs smooth as can be. With the choke off and 1/3 to 1/2 throttle it runs but has oscillating revs.

Any ideas?


----------



## dabnis

Sounds like it is starving for fuel. Suggest you make sure the tank vent is not plugged. If not, sounds like some debris got into the carb, or the gas evaporated, leaving goo behind. Maybe some carb cleaner at about 50% gas mix. Let it set for a day or two then try gain. If no go, time to clean out the carb, thin wire and compressed air. Suggest you drain the carb if it is not going to be used for a week or so

Paul T


----------



## SHNOOL

Is it a new outboard, or used?
Sadly a used outboard could be suffering from a lacquered carb bowl. If it's new, then someone would need to eat it!

I won't start anyone on WHY it's lacquered, but lets just say run it dry every time you use it (once it's running well again).


----------



## CaribDream

SHNOOL:1048054 said:


> Is it a new outboard, or used?
> Sadly a used outboard could be suffering from a lacquered carb bowl. If it's new, then someone would need to eat it!
> 
> I won't start anyone on WHY it's lacquered, but lets just say run it dry every time you use it (once it's running well again).


Brand new. One month old.


----------



## CaribDream

dabnis:1048053 said:


> Sounds like it is starving for fuel. Suggest you make sure the tank vent is not plugged. If not, sounds like some debris got into the carb, or the gas evaporated, leaving goo behind. Maybe some carb cleaner at about 50% gas mix. Let it set for a day or two then try gain. If no go, time to clean out the carb, thin wire and compressed air. Suggest you drain the carb if it is not going to be used for a week or so
> 
> Paul T


Exactly what I was thinking - fuel starved. Just can't figure out how something got messed up this early. It's one month old, used 3 times and I always run super instead of regular just like my other boats.


----------



## JimsCAL

Under warranty then. Use it.


----------



## [email protected]

Sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Today's "modern" ethanol fuels can wreak havoc in small gas engines with carburetors that aren't used every day, and slime/gunk can form quickly, especially in warm weather. Sometimes, a good fuel system clean can solve it. In the worst case, a complete cleaning of the fuel system / carburetor is required. Typically, poor running due to a fuel deterioration issue is not considered a factory defect so isn't covered under warranty. A Honda dealer can still repair it, but at your expense. If you want to DIY, it is not too difficult; a few hand tools, and take your time. Here are a couple of pages from the shop manual; use a good quality carb cleaner a lots of compressed air to clean all the passages...



















[email protected]
_Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


----------



## CaribDream

[email protected]:1048738 said:


> Sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Today's "modern" ethanol fuels can wreak havoc in small gas engines with carburetors that aren't used every day, and slime/gunk can form quickly, especially in warm weather. Sometimes, a good fuel system clean can solve it. In the worst case, a complete cleaning of the fuel system / carburetor is required. Typically, poor running due to a fuel deterioration issue is not considered a factory defect so isn't covered under warranty. A Honda dealer can still repair it, but at your expense. If you want to DIY, it is not too difficult; a few hand tools, and take your time. Here are a couple of pages from the shop manual; use a good quality carb cleaner a lots of compressed air to clean all the passages...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]
> _Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


This engine is only about a month old. Oldest gas would be 2 weeks and all I run is super 93 octane. I could understand if I had fuel that was a month or more old - but that's not the case. If Honda wants to charge me on this, I'll be moving to another brand plain and simple.


----------



## Skipper Jer

I wouldn't do anything to the engine until the dealer took a look at it. Trying to fix this yourself may void the warranty. Me? I'd dump the gas, put the proper octane rated fuel in the tank and crank her up. Also read the manual to see if there is anything said about ethanol laced gasoline.


----------



## CaribDream

Captainmeme:1048753 said:


> I wouldn't do anything to the engine until the dealer took a look at it. Trying to fix this yourself may void the warranty. Me? I'd dump the gas, put the proper octane rated fuel in the tank and crank her up. Also read the manual to see if there is anything said about ethanol laced gasoline.


Couldn't agree with you more. If I pull anything apart they will void the warranty for sure. It had fresh from the pump gas in it when it started doing this.


----------



## Skipper Jer

And since this started happening so soon from the factory how do we know there wasn't some sort of manufacturing debris left in the bowl that got sucked up into the carb jets? A little metal spec is enough to clog these carbs.


----------



## avenger79

i would take it back for warranty work, but expect a bill. I was recently looking at a new OB for the boat. same size as yours. first thing they stressed was run it dry everytime. why the bill? because leaving fuel in motor to varnish is generally not covered.


----------



## CaribDream

avenger79:1048768 said:


> i would take it back for warranty work, but expect a bill. I was recently looking at a new OB for the boat. same size as yours. first thing they stressed was run it dry everytime. why the bill? because leaving fuel in motor to varnish is generally not covered.


2 week old fuel varnishes? That's a bit extreme no? Out of all the outboards I have ever owned, I have never been required to run them dry, nor does it say that in the manual. It does state in the manual that if you plan to "store" the motor for an "extended period of time" it should be treated. I don't think 2 weeks is "storing" nor "extended".


----------



## Alex W

On the 2hp Honda it is recommended that you run the carb dry, not that you run the whole fuel tank dry.

That is why there is a fuel on/off lever on the starboard side of the engine (at least on my older BF2A). I always do this when I'm not going to be using the motor for a couple of days. It takes a few minutes at idle speed due to the engine's extreme fuel economy. I guess if you were really impatient you could use the carb drain screw, collect the fuel, then dump it back into the tank.

The carb is so small that it is possible for fuel to evaporate and leave behind varnish in a couple of weeks.

I don't think that any other brand of engine will be any better in this respect. They all use small carbs and fuel varnishing is a problem.


----------



## avenger79

CaribDream said:


> 2 week old fuel varnishes? That's a bit extreme no? Out of all the outboards I have ever owned, I have never been required to run them dry, nor does it say that in the manual. It does state in the manual that if you plan to "store" the motor for an "extended period of time" it should be treated. I don't think 2 weeks is "storing" nor "extended".


while I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I have seen it happen where they tell the customer it is operator error due to varnish. new fuels are terrible for varnishing.


----------



## CaribDream

Alex W:1048780 said:


> On the 2hp Honda it is recommended that you run the carb dry, not that you run the whole fuel tank dry.


This makes more sense. I wish it would have stated that in the manual.


----------



## Alex W

It does say that in the storage portion of the manual. Here is a manual for a 2006 BF2D:
http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31ZW6610.pdf

Look at pages 51-53. Storage for them is not using it for over 15 days, at least as I read the manual.

I haven't looked at the newest manual, but I'm sure it's covered and if anything the storage times would have come down.


----------



## [email protected]

The warranty can't be "voided." It it technically and legally impossible to do that. Honda has a legal obligation to repair any factory defects, and just because you elect to try and do some repairs does not excuse them from that obligation, period. You can change your own oil, take it to another non-Honda dealer, use non-factory parts, etc. The key caveat is as long as your actions aren't shown to be the cause of any failure or problem with the outboard when you want Honda to pay for warranty repairs.

In short, if your repairs damage or break some part of the outboard and then you expect Honda to pay for it, they will probably decline. If some other original or genuine part of the outboard is broken and it is determine to have a factory defect, Honda will likely pay for the repairs.

If you think there is a genuine factory defect, for sure, have a Honda dealer inspect it. Be sure you communicate with the dealer who is paying for what BEFORE any repairs are made to the motor.

[email protected]
_Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


----------



## CaribDream

Alex W:1048814 said:


> It does say that in the storage portion of the manual. Here is a manual for a 2006 BF2D:
> http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31ZW6610.pdf
> 
> Look at pages 51-53. Storage for them is not using it for over 15 days, at least as I read the manual.
> 
> I haven't looked at the newest manual, but I'm sure it's covered and if anything the storage times would have come down.


You are correct sir... Man, that is lousy! 15 days?!


----------



## dabnis

I forgot to drain the gas from my Honda 2HP. The next spring, no go. The bowl was full of debris, almost like sand? I did two experiments:

1. Let half a coffee can of treated gas evaporate in open air. After a number of months all that was left was a little bit of what looked like 90 weight gear oil, which never went away.

2. In an old carburetor, I left the bowl full of treated gas with the carb assembled. After a month or so, I took it apart. There was absolutely no evidence of any deposits or debris, it was perfectly clean.

Perhaps there is a difference in the gas evaporating in open air and the gas evaporating in an enclose area such as the assembled carb?

In any event, I always drain the carb if it is not going to be used fro a week or so, seems to work, no problems.

Paul T


----------



## bljones

is there a vent on the fuel cap that needs to be opened?


----------



## CaribDream

bljones:1048920 said:


> is there a vent on the fuel cap that needs to be opened?


Yes there is, but it was fully open and I didn't find any obvious malfunctions with that vent or blockages.


----------



## CaribDream

*Follow up*

Got a call from the service guy. He found some debris in the gas tank, said it looked like a possible spider or spore of some sort. He said that Honda Tech gave him the discretion to decide if warranty should cover the work and he gave the go ahead. I will pick up the motor tomorrow. This is good news. While I can not rule out that the debris came from me, I can not rule out that it came that way from the factory either. I am always very conscious of this sort of thing too. Since it happened only 3 weeks I lean towards it being from the factory. Obviously I am also biased. Either way, hopefully I'm back in business.


----------



## MarkSF

CaribDream said:


> This engine is only about a month old. Oldest gas would be 2 weeks and all I run is super 93 octane. I could understand if I had fuel that was a month or more old - but that's not the case. If Honda wants to charge me on this, I'll be moving to another brand plain and simple.


If you did not run the carb dry or drain it after the first two trips, that is sufficient to block the jets on these little carbs.

Edit : just saw your last post. Cool. But I still recommend running dry at least, or draining better still.


----------



## lunaticgt

I have the same issue with a 2013 2.3 that is 3 months old. Used 3 times, not even out of break-in yet. Sat for about 1 month upright in my garage. Now, full choke is required to start it each time. Then it will only run on about 1/3 choke. Note that the choke does not stay where you put it either so you can't actually use it like that. Gas had ethanol treatment in it.

As for ethanol being to blame, I think mfrs should be able to make a product that functions on the fuels available rather than make a product for which there is no correct fuel in existence. I mean, ethanol is not exactly new and I have no other motors, from my weed whacker to my lawn tractor, etc. that have had any ethanol related problems after years of ethanol use without even an additive. I am sorry, but I don't fall for this blame game and so not only is this my first Honda product, it is my last. Thanks to the tech for supplying the diagrams though so maybe I can try to get mine running and sell it next season.


----------



## MarkSF

Did you run the carb dry after each time you ran it?


----------



## Mechsmith

lunaticgt;
As for ethanol being to blame said:


> Governments mandate ethanol for political reasons. In the US they require health warnings and otherwise discourage the use of tobacco products. They also subsidize farmers that grow tobacco.
> 
> The gov't mandates fuel economy standards. They also mandate the use of a fuel that lowers fuel economy.
> 
> As a Vietnam veteran we destroyed villages to save them.
> 
> We also baptized native Americans before we killed them.
> 
> I think that Honda is doing its best. I have had the problems as a mechanic ever since the gov't began to think for us. The problem is also in Fords, Willys Mercurys, and Stihs and assorted weed eaters.. Clean out the old fuel as well as you can. Fortunetly the gum left by the ethanol usually can be washed out with hot soapy dishwater.
> 
> Honda, and the other manufacturers have to meet EPA requirements also. These requirements may have little to do with practicality.
> 
> Consider that the more problems that the government makes for the people the more secure are the jobs and fiefdoms for those that help solve our problems.


----------



## Donna_F

No politics in this thread, please. Take it to OT. Thanks.


----------



## Mechsmith

Oop's Donna,

I was trying to point out that the OP's problems probably will not be rectified simply by changing manufacturers.

All manufacturers must follow certain laws of physics and mechanics. The smaller the motor the smaller the passages must be. Since the problem has shown up in some 50 year old vehicles as well as brand new ones it is probably not permantly curable.

Basically it is the propensity of ethanol to attract water which then forms a gum. Very sticky stuff. However as I pointed out it is generally water soluble, at least in fresh water.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Take it from me Tim,, you better learn how to tear that carb down and clean and reassemble it. I do it 3 times a year, whenever my outboard gets bitchy. Takes an hour. 

One day when you are rebuilding the carb on your tender in the water next to a tropical island , you can thank me for this advice. It will be so simple that you will wonder how you ever bothered to take it to someone else.


----------



## capecodda

Don't think this is a brand issue w/Honda. My little Suzuki 2.5 does the same thing, now i run it dry unless I'm using it every day. I've gotten pretty good at removing and cleaning the little carb.


----------



## dabnis

I have used this for many years on many different motors:

Fuel Additives / Treatments | Berryman Products

Works as advertised, no affiliation. Be careful, it can remove paint, hot stuff.

Paul T


----------



## Mshoeverivon

I am having the same problem, so I cleaned the carb, jets and added fuel stabilizer. I am thinking about adding a small fuel filter, it looks like there is room. Edit. Great news the problem was the gas cap. I removed the gas line to check flow and it would just trickle. Took the cap apart and blow out the holes in it. On a side note if mine won't start after setting for awhile (all gas drained) I pull the plug and put a drop of fuel in the cylinder (I keep 8" of fuel line in the boat) to prime and it fires right up. It feels good to fix things yourself.


----------



## dabnis

Mshoeverivon said:


> I am having the same problem, so I cleaned the carb, jets and added fuel stabilizer. I am thinking about adding a small fuel filter, it looks like there is room.


My 2HP Honda had a small integral filter just inside the fuel line at the tank end. You couldn't see it from the outside"

Honda Marine - Parts Look Up Results

Paul T


----------



## davidpm

I also bought a new outboard this year. In my case it was a merc 6 hp.

I read the manual, called the factory, talked to an outboard mechanic who is my computer customer and talked to another mechanic.

The consensus seems to be that in the past it was recommended to run the carb dry and or drain the fuel bowl if the motor was to sit for more than a couple days.

Now the factory recommends storing the motor wet but with treated fuel.

Both the mechanics say that they now use E0 fuel and treat it anyway and store wet.

I was able to find this fuel VP racing fuel, specialty lubricants, performance chemicals
from an outboard dealer and also from a small engine (mowers, snow throwers etc) dealer.

Apparently the running it dry trick will work often if not most of the time.
The mechanics feel that when empty some small jets will sometimes clog with something, maybe insects etc. 
Treated e10 is supposed to be ok but treated e0 is supposed to be the safest and one guy said he personally is responsible for a couple hundred motors and did not have one failure last year while he would typically have one or two failures a year with the run try method.

As a data point I ran my motor dry and drained the carb but while moving it a half oz or so of fuel dribbled out of the full intake so I'm not sure it is possible to really drain a motor completely dry even if you try.

I also called the Trufuel people. This gas is available in Home depot and tru-value. They say it is for air cooled motors only so it might be OK for your Honda but has not been tested for my Merc.

I put my new motor away wet a couple of weeks ago with wpracingfuel treated with the merc stablizer. 
If it starts well in the spring I'm smart if not I'm dumb. I'll let you know.

Another interesting data point.
While putting it away and trying fogging oil, didn't need it just playing, and starting and stopping I had a strange occurrence.
I had the coke in, the engine was warm.
I was pulling the cord out very slowly to get to the point where you pull to start.
The engine started. Wow, I have never had an engine start with so little effort.
Explains why they recommend taking out the plug when working on the prop.
I was not trying to start the motor and was pulling the cord very slowly to find the resistance point.
Freaked me out.


----------



## dabnis

davidpm said:


> I also bought a new outboard this year. In my case it was a merc 6 hp.
> 
> I read the manual, called the factory, talked to an outboard mechanic who is my computer customer and talked to another mechanic.
> 
> The consensus seems to be that in the past it was recommended to run the carb dry and or drain the fuel bowl if the motor was to sit for more than a couple days.
> 
> Now the factory recommends storing the motor wet but with treated fuel.
> 
> Both the mechanics say that they now use E0 fuel and treat it anyway and store wet.
> 
> I was able to find this fuel VP racing fuel, specialty lubricants, performance chemicals
> from an outboard dealer and also from a small engine (mowers, snow throwers etc) dealer.
> 
> Apparently the running it dry trick will work often if not most of the time.
> The mechanics feel that when empty some small jets will sometimes clog with something, maybe insects etc.
> Treated e10 is supposed to be ok but treated e0 is supposed to be the safest and one guy said he personally is responsible for a couple hundred motors and did not have one failure last year while he would typically have one or two failures a year with the run try method.
> 
> As a data point I ran my motor dry and drained the carb but while moving it a half oz or so of fuel dribbled out of the full intake so I'm not sure it is possible to really drain a motor completely dry even if you try.
> 
> I also called the Trufuel people. This gas is available in Home depot and tru-value. They say it is for air cooled motors only so it might be OK for your Honda but has not been tested for my Merc.
> 
> I put my new motor away wet a couple of weeks ago with wpracingfuel treated with the merc stablizer.
> If it starts well in the spring I'm smart if not I'm dumb. I'll let you know.
> 
> Another interesting data point.
> While putting it away and trying fogging oil, didn't need it just playing, and starting and stopping I had a strange occurrence.
> I had the coke in, the engine was warm.
> I was pulling the cord out very slowly to get to the point where you pull to start.
> The engine started. Wow, I have never had an engine start with so little effort.
> Explains why they recommend taking out the plug when working on the prop.
> I was not trying to start the motor and was pulling the cord very slowly to find the resistance point.
> Freaked me out.


Curious to know why the racing fuel is recommended for air cooled engines only? The only thing I can think of is that air cooled engines may run hotter,
helping to vaporize the fuel better, or properly?

Paul T


----------



## christian.hess

yup in cali those who race old honda air cooled bikes reccomend the racing fuel it helps with pinging and excessive heat from in some cases detonation too

it also allows to run richer jetting that gets more power in the end too as well as cool down the engine a bit at the same time

anywhoo


----------



## mbianka

You do know there is a fuel shut off lever on the side of the engine. Right? You have checked it is in the right position? It's kind of hidden and one can sometimes forget about it.


----------



## Mshoeverivon

Yes. I bet the cap was getting gummed up. Little engine little holes. I am going to run stabilizer in it all the time now.


----------



## davidpm

dabnis said:


> Curious to know why the racing fuel is recommended for air cooled engines only? The only thing I can think of is that air cooled engines may run hotter,
> helping to vaporize the fuel better, or properly?
> 
> Paul T


It was the TruFuel site that said that their 4 stroke gas was for air cooled only. I called the mfr and the guy that called me back would not discuss it at all. I suspect it is an insurance or testing thing.

The VP fuel I bought from an outboard repair facility. I did not see any air cooled restriction on that product.


----------



## RichH

CaribDream said:


> 2 week old fuel varnishes? That's a bit extreme no? Out of all the outboards I have ever owned, I have never been required to run them dry, nor does it say that in the manual. It does state in the manual that if you plan to "store" the motor for an "extended period of time" it should be treated. I don't think 2 weeks is "storing" nor "extended".


2 week old fuel can easily form varnish and gums. 
You dont know how long that fuel was in the dealer/marina tank. Small marinas in out of the way places are the worst.
You dont know if the dealer just received a new fuel delivery which stirred up the 'bottom' of the tank. 
You dont know if that dealer hasnt changed the fuel pump delivery filter since 1994.

Suggestions: 
1. only buy your fuel from a 'high turnover' (BUSY) fuel depots (but NOT if there's a tanker there that is unloading)
2. ALWAYS use a fuel stabilizer in your OB ... or any other SMALL HP gasoline 'newer' engines. Stabil™, Valvtect, etc. ........ even if you run the engine 'dry' as you will ALWAYS leave small amounts of fuel in the 'bleeds', orfices, needle valve throats, etc. when you run it 'dry'.
4. Look inside your 'fuel can' once in a while .... clean it out when necessary. 
5. Buy (ethanol free) 'marine' grade gasoline whenever possible - in the SE and Gulf Coast states and halfway up the East Coast, look for *Valvtect* distributors. ValvTect - ValvTect - Premium Fuel Additives for Gasoline and Diesel Fuel to find/locate Valvtect marine gasoline (and diesel) distributors.


----------



## Mshoeverivon

Can someone check their air screw for leaks for me. With the engine running if I spray carb cleaner near the the air screw the engine dies. This does not sound rite to me. Can someone check theirs for me. Thanks.


----------

