# Teak Decks and thru deck on Hans Christian



## scrappster (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi, looking to purchase a Hans Christian 38. Considering it's built in Taiwan I worry about moisture intrusion from the deck fastenings. Someone told me today that these were actually fastened with machine screws and never penetrated fully thru the glass. I have trouble believeing this as I have never heard such a thing. Anyone with experience on this??? 
Is deck and house construction fiberglass on the outside, plywood as core then fiberglass on the inside???
How are all thru deck fittings attached? Are they thru bolted with backing plates and countersunk inside then covered with the beaded plywood? Or are they lagged or screwed in.
Thanks so much


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

I have a quite similar boat (Tayana) and indeed screwed down teak decks from this era of construction, unless meticulously maintained will be: teak screwed (about 3500 holes) into the upper FRG, sometimes even into the core, but not the FRG below the core. Core is usually a 'light weight 'end-grain'; but not 'balsa'. As others with actual/direct knowledge will testify, a screwed down teak deck will only usually last approx. 15+ years; if rigorously maintained maybe slightly more. What I mean by rigorously maintained is 're-bunged, re-screwed, re routed, and recaulked ... and then sealer applied. If its 'grey', the wood grain is erroded, more than just one or two bungs are loose, a few 'age-splits' here and there .... you probably wont need a 'moisture meter'. 

From thermal expansion over all those years usually you will find that the Thiokol adhesive between the teak and upper FRG layer has lost its 'grip', the screws - especially at the butt end joints of the teak strakes - will have 'sawn' themselves loose from the FRG, and when/if you pull a few screws some will indeed come up with rot attached. 
Quick inspection: With your full body weight, PUSH your foot/heel down on the butt end joint boards. if you see any up/down 'movement' of the butt ends of the strakes ...... .

Restoration can be either an expensive job or very time consuming DIY job. If you have any doubts about: the integrity of the underdeck/core; or your abilities in restoration; or expense in having the restoration done by others .... seek out a boat with 'no teak deck'. 

Still, there is nothing better under a wet foot than a teak deck. 
;-)


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Older boats, 10-15 yrs-old, with teak decks are a financial time-bomb.

Do not even think of buying unless you are on your way to Cartagena Columbia where we got ours fixed for 20% of the cost in the US.

We renovated the teak and a friend removed his and had the deck fiber glassed.

If the water has got extensively into the core the job goes from a big one to a massive one doubling or trippling the cost of the repair.

We now have a beautifully restored teak deck which cost $4,000 on a 55 ft boat. But the teak was still 6-7mm think and the core was pristine.

Phil


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

Go ask on Hans Christian Owners Association (HCOA). The owners org is very knowledgeable on the different HCs. On our HC 33, we don't have cored decks and although our decks needed recaulked, we haven't had any problems. Some of the HCs were built in different yards with varying results, but the folks on the HC owner's site will know.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

scrappster said:


> Hi, looking to purchase a Hans Christian 38. Considering it's built in Taiwan I worry about moisture intrusion from the deck fastenings. Someone told me today that these were actually fastened with machine screws and never penetrated fully thru the glass. I have trouble believeing this as I have never heard such a thing. Anyone with experience on this???
> 
> Is deck and house construction fiberglass on the outside, plywood as core then fiberglass on the inside???


As said above, the teak is screwed down to the fiberglass deck underneath, but only through the top layer of the cored laminate, which consists of a layer of fiberglass, a wooden core and then another layer of fiberglass. If the teak decks are not properly maintained, the screws become a way for water to get into the wooden core and rot it out--compromising the deck's strength and integrity. This is not an inexpensive repair, especially if the core had delaminated due to rot.



> How are all thru deck fittings attached? Are they thru bolted with backing plates and countersunk inside then covered with the beaded plywood? Or are they lagged or screwed in.
> Thanks so much


If they're not through-bolted, they really can't hold much of a load generally, since screws are a lousy choice for fiberglass, as the fiberglass is too brittle to hold screws well, and the lightweight wood used for the core isn't really a good choice for screws either, since it offers almost no support.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

If they're not through-bolted said:


> Actually its quite worse .... If the core is rotted/soft the core will no longer be able to 'support' the compression loads applied from the throughtbolts and the upper and lower FRG layers will flex towards one another under added strain ... which in turn you no longer have a 'stable' joint and you get LEAKS. The 'good news' in such boats the throughbolts for stancheons, etc. are usually mounted on a 'stand-off' which raises the base of the hardware an inch 'above' the deck, and due to the geometry of the 'stand off' (looks like a 'round pedestal') strengthens the upper FRG. But no matter, there WILL be leakage as the 'joint' was usually loaded with 'thiokol' type caulk ... and that usually only lasts 15 years.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rich-- 

LOL...My point was that any deck hardware that wasn't through-bolted was going to be a problem, even with good decks. If the deck core has rotted, even through-bolting isn't going to help much.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

*Teak deck*

I own a 32 year old Flying Dutchman (it's very similar to the ones described) and love it even though it does require a lot of diligence. Two summers ago I spent most of the summer replacing and resealing screws, routing out the seams and recaulking and now I'm very pleased with the overall result. I could route out the seams because the original teak laid down was 3/4 inch thick. Of course, I live in a desert like climate so water intrusion and resulting rot has never been a concern for me.

The teak just cannot be beat for a nonslip deck covering as well as insulation both from the hot sun in the summer and cold in the winter. The final choice is yours but the best way to see if you have leaking screws or seams is to wash the deck off thoroughly on a good warm, sunny day and watch it dry. Any leaking screws and seams will dry well after the rest of the deck.

Good luck!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

When did Washington State become a desert?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

DwayneSpeer said:


> I The final choice is yours but the best way to see if you have leaking screws or seams is to wash the deck off thoroughly on a good warm, sunny day and watch it dry. Any leaking screws and seams will dry *well afte*r the rest of the deck.


What Dwayne _Profoundly_ states .... is better than a 'moisture meter' for teak decks !!!!!


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

mitiempo said:


> When did Washington State become a desert?


Take a look at the east side. We average about 6 inches of rain a year and we get 95% of that in the winter. Yup, it's a desert climate. You're thinking about the wet, dreary west side.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The dreary west side where all the water is. I looked at Pasco on Google Earth and it looks dry - too dry to sail. Except for a river I couldn't see any water.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

mitiempo said:


> The dreary west side where all the water is. I looked at Pasco on Google Earth and it looks dry - too dry to sail. Except for a river I couldn't see any water.


You didn't look far enough. Pan down the Columbia River until it turns southwest and look in closer. You'll see the Walla Walla Yacht Club. My boat is the one that's not there cause it was making the trip around your beautiful island at the time the photo was taken. Admittedly not near the sailing choices as Puget Sound but fine sailing anyhoo. Good winds most of the time and far more sunny sailing days than Puget Sound. In fact, I went sailing just this past weekend. A bit chilly but great. You'll also notice that Google Earth shows a lack of natural vegetation all over the area, indicative of a severe lack of precipitation.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Definite lack of precipitation. Thought I was looking at Baja for a minute.


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