# oil Lamp?



## guggech (May 1, 2015)

Hi,
I want to get an oil/kerosene lamp to hang inside the cabin for light and heat. Any advice on what kind of lamp is safe to use?
Thanks,
Charles


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i used gimballed lamps from harnisch and weems and plath and a trawler lamp hung from overhead in dinette, when i lived in coldville, with much success. remember to always have a port open or an overhead hatch somewhat open for fresh air.
i used liquid parafin in mine for cleanest burn and least pulmonary difficulty.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd argue for NONE.

Kerosene stinks, no matter how expensive and exotic and refined it is. And eve if you buy a proper lamp with a tubular wick, the wick has to be trimmed and maintained and you need a smoke bell over it, or you'll have soot on the overhead and cabin sides.

Then there's the fire danger that all fire brings. 

There are some very attractive "LED Candles" that really fake it well, and can run for ages on a 5V power bank. Get a couple of those and don't look back. Or just get some 12V LED cabin lighting and a solar cell if you've got no other charging source.

Kero? Yeah...I know, it can survive an EMP like nothing else will. But with the lower power consumption of LEDs and the longer life (50,000 hours is more than you'll get from any lamp wick), there's a reason you don't see many kero lamps anymore.

If you really have your heart set on it...anything with a tubular wick, a smoke bell, a gimbal mount. Any of the classic "Alladdin" lamps that are meant for use in cabins would work. 

Have you ever really been cooped up in a cabin with a kero lamp or heater? A few people are lucky enough never to be nauseated by the kero stink. The rest of us...just put on a sweater.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

hellosailor has spoken the reasoning behind use of high as hell priced paraffin liquid for lamps and keeping the hatch or port open.
one must also daily and as needed attend to the wicks and cleaning of said lamps
never sleep or leave boat while in use.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Kerosene lamps don't put out enough heat to keep anything remotely the size of a cabin warm. They stink, ALWAYS, they don't put out a lot of light, and IMO, they are pretty much worthless, unless you really want to trash your pulmonary system by coating the inside of your lungs with kerosene soot. Yeah, it's that nasty!

I had a kerosene lamp on my old Catalina 27, and used it once, then converted it into an efficient LED lamp that looked neat, put out lots of light, and when I needed heat and was anchored out, I just fired up the propane stove for about 20 minutes, which heated the entire interior of the boat to about 70 degrees in 30 minutes and that's if it was only 40 degrees outside. Before going to bed, I would turn off the propane stove, then turned on my inverter and plugged in my electric blanket - worked like a charm. 

All the best,

Gary


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

san francisco is not so cold as to preclude ability to warm with oil lamps. 
maryland is bludi damned cold. oil lamp wont keep your toesies warm enough to bend back there. 
water in md turns hard in winter. hard water in san fran still flows.
oh sorry, monterey , carmel. warmer than san fran by mebbe 3 degrees. heaven in winter hahahaha
yeah oil lamp will work for you. trawler lamps ar warmest but take much space.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I love kerosene lamps, I gave up on electric boat lighting about 5 years ago in favour of kerosene. Basically, I have no electrical system on my boat what so ever. Its not for every one, but I like it.

Right now I have a very small boat, the cabin is easy to light and heat. I use a gambled Den Han Lamp my wife bought me for my last boat. Personally, I find the quality of Den Haan a little better than Weems and Plath (had one of those two boats ago).

Gimbal lamp | Cabin lamps | Den Haan Rotterdam

My other lamp is a portable, its an antique brass lamp I found in an old outbuilding on a farm. Its small, it hangs, I often take it ashore with me in the evening. Standard whicks fit in it. Its anice alternative to a camp fire if you don't have wood available.

As an alternative to kerosene, you can get scented lamp oils, or if the bugs are thick you can get a citronella based lamp oil.

Prior to electric heating, around here, people used large kerosene lamps to heat Hen Houses at night. It gets quite cold here (30 below at night in the winter isn't unusual), so they have some heating capability more for cool evenings than out right cold evenings.


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## guggech (May 1, 2015)

Thank you all for your advise!!


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm with Hello Sailor.

I have a Weems and Plath lamp and used it a few times (I had a bigger boat then). Compared with LED lighting there is none at all. A hat adds far more warmth, particularly after correcting for the cold an open hatch lets in. Googf on the wick and there's black on the ceiling. Over all, a net negative. A flashlight is better.

It is now on a bookshelf at home, for decoration.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I sailed an old gaffer through the SoPac for 5.5 years that had only one electric light, the one over the chart table. I carried a 30 gallon drum of kerosene on deck to fuel the anchor light, running lights, binnacle lights and the cabin lights. I agree, kerosene lamps do require maintenance, but what on a boat doesn't? We never noticed any particular smell, but every wick was properly trimmed and set to the proper height. Improperly trimmed and/or too much wick can cause black smoke and cause the glass to get dirty, but not so if properly cared for. These are not dime store lanterns, but proper kerosene lamps made specifically for indoor use on a boat.
My suggestion for over the table would be a mantle light similar to the one below. There are ones specifically designed for boats (usually brass) and they can heat a small cabin quite well, but they are not even close to cheap!


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

From experiene long ago, kerosene heat over the lamp can dry wet wool socks without washing first. Never noticed that paraffin had an odour


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Never noticed that paraffin had an odour"
It is actually a genetic thing. Like not tasting bitter, or smelling asparagus odor in urine, or a number of other taste/smell issues. Some people literally can't smell some things. And then again, there are just the old women who have gone "nose blind" and bathe in fragrances. You can tell when one has been in the elevator, ten minutes after they're gone.

Zeehag?
If you think Maryland is bloody cold...good thing you are south of the Rio Grande. Montana, the Rockies, New England...these are all places you never want to visit in winter. You start to redefine cold when you've spilled a drop of hot chocolate on something, and find that you can't wipe it off because it froze solid before you could reach the napkin.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Burn citronella lamp oil in it - smells nice and drives the bugs away.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

How about a propane or white gas mantle lantern such as a Coleman camping lantern? Much better light, no stink, and some heat production with no soot or wick trimming. You would still want to have a fresh air source.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

My O'Day came with a pair of gimballed weems and plath lamps mounted on the bulkhead. They did not put out much light or heat. Enough light to be able to see your way around the cabin, but not enough to read by. I burned lamp oil and I didn't have any problems with soot or smell.

They did add a nice ambiance and looked great when polished. 

For real task lighting I installed LED lights.

Barry


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

For light...LEDs. Alpenglow is the best.

For heat...a proper heater with a flue. Wood, diesel, kerosene, propane.

For putting your sock feet up on the settee or cockpit seat and sipping a nice whiskey or claret or hot buttered rum while on the hook at dusk, no better ambience than that provided by a kerosene lamp. Lehman's has a good selection...check their website.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

HelloSailor. In my youth I had no problem with differential odours.I was only comparing the fragrance of burnt wool socks to the lesser stench of oil lamps. However as time went by and the genetic factors came into play the gradual loss of smell (which may be a harbinger of Alzheimer's) has risen to prominence. Somewhat of a blessing though as personal hygiene has become completely optional and I can use cheaper oil.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

PRESSURE kerosene lamps

Tons of light, lots of heat, some you can cook on.

https://www.amazon.com/BriteLyt-Petromax-USA-500CP-XL/dp/B00J0ECCZS

Coleman makes a simpler one.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

A few boats back we used a trawler lamp, and yes, on a cool summer night it heats the cabin quite well in our neighborhood. Actually, surprisingly effective at taking the chill out. Not going to keep you warm up here now .

Pricey, yea, but much cheaper than the Espar we're using now. Sure the Espar is way better heat, but I wouldn't rule this out if you are careful with it.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

hellosailor said:


> "Never noticed that paraffin had an odour"
> It is actually a genetic thing. Like not tasting bitter, or smelling asparagus odor in urine, or a number of other taste/smell issues. Some people literally can't smell some things. And then again, there are just the old women who have gone "nose blind" and bathe in fragrances. You can tell when one has been in the elevator, ten minutes after they're gone.
> 
> Zeehag?
> If you think Maryland is bloody cold...good thing you are south of the Rio Grande. Montana, the Rockies, New England...these are all places you never want to visit in winter. You start to redefine cold when you've spilled a drop of hot chocolate on something, and find that you can't wipe it off because it froze solid before you could reach the napkin.


once you have lived in north troy and upstate ny , those lil shantytowns you mention are NOTHING. -46f is a lil chilly for my reynaudsian bloodless. fur is mandatory. 
and yes i HAVE been in damn near all 48 coldassed states in winter. remember i cheat--my dad worked for dupont as a regional sales exec wtf for centuries while we all grew up, so, yes i have lived all over usa. i have EARNED my days in warmerville. 
you try manually shovelling snow in 20f with wind chill -15. you, too , will run south . hahahahahahahaha. try living in a place wherein your breath freezes before it is exhaled. i have been there done that.
paraffin has an odor, albeit much less than kerosene and it burns much cleaner.
yes oil lamps do take the brittle edge off the california cold. 
they will not warm a frozen shell in hell, but they do well in california chill.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Almost forgot, keep in mind that kerosene lamps emit carbon monoxide while burning - same as gasoline. In a tight, small boat, you could end up dead. Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play? 

Good luck, and play it safe,

Gary


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

travlin-easy said:


> Almost forgot, keep in mind that kerosene lamps emit carbon monoxide while burning - same as gasoline. In a tight, small boat, you could end up dead. Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?
> 
> Good luck, and play it safe,
> 
> Gary


'ats why ye leave open a porthole or overhead hatch to compensate. applies to the mandatory ventilation all boats require as well. 
be safe and smart in your warmth.

ps..i also found a tarp over the cabin and under the boom is excellent insulation so it warms better indoors.


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## uxb (Dec 3, 2011)

I have an oil lamp, came with the boat.

It does smell a bit but gives out a cheery light and some useful heat so it gets gets some use. I would remove it were it not for the fact it would leave noticeable marks on the bulkhead along with the screw holes...


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

The W&P yacht lamps seem to be very tightly contained against soot exhaust. 
Example: Brass Yacht Lamp

Most sailboat cabins I've seen, are not very airtight at all. Is this really a concern? Most hatchboards I've seen have ventilation slots cut in them. In their absence, sliding the hatch open 1/2" should admit enough air without letting all of the warm cabin air escape.

I have some friends who are very stingy about their power consumption and use a slew of oil lamps in all but the hottest summer conditions to light their cabin. I'm more of an LED person with a single W&P yacht oil lamp for emergencies and ambiance. So I guess it's all a matter of personal taste and preference.

I found some nice, brass electric lamps by SeaDog that look sort of like oil lamps but use a bulb. I found good, bright LEDs to put in them and they do a great job of lighting the cabin through direct and reflected lighting. The quality isn't the highest but I like the style and they do ok.

Sea Dog, Cabin Light, Brass. Interior Lighting, 12 Volts


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## flyrod (Oct 29, 2011)

I'll second the Alladdin lamp, w/smoke bell. Bright light, low smell, modest heat, no noise like a pressurized unit. Keep the wick trimmed (they sell a simple trimmer), adjust the wick not too high. Great ambiance inside (prefer led cabin lights for standard use), excellent in cockpit, great lamps if you need a kero lamp.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

As stated more than once, sailors (and campers) are turning to LED lighting; this has led to many good kerosene lamps ending up in second hand shops at very reasonable prices. You must mount these lamps so that they can not overheat nearby combustibles, can not swing right off their hook, and can not swing into any other object that could shatter the glass.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

Don't smell kerosene lamps, didn't when I was younger and certainly don't now. Any kero lamp that produces enough light to read by generates enough heat to help on cool days. Won't heat the cabin in near freezing temps but welcome heat on a chilly NorCal evening. Have a DenHaan trawler lamp that served well to take the chill off. For those who think that kerosene lamps put out inconsequential heat, try living with them in the tropics.

Switched to lamp oil with the DH lamp when I had flare up issues using mineral spirits. Have always used mineral spirits in flat and round wick lamps as well as the aero stove without problems as it seemed to burn cleaner than kerosene and used to be way cheaper. Apparently has too low a vaporization temp. to work in the DH Trawler and Aladdin Lamps.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

In the US, "mineral spirits" usually means "any kind of petrochemical junk that will remove paint before it dries on the brush". Often mainly naphtha, but that comes in varying grades as well. That got popular when turpentine prices shot up 50-60 years ago. So if "mineral spirits" doesn't do a job, that's like going into a bar and asking for "a drink". Might get chablis, might get single malt. So, it might not be your lamp's fault. And you'll notice, those "spirits" cans are rarely big on telling the contents.

FWIW.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Back in the day, but after the time of Moses, naphtha was white gas , without dye, tetraethyl,lead and stuff that engines like. Used in blow torches and pressure lamps and camp stove with some expected safety. Would expect some considerable excitement if it was used in a wick device without label reading and understanding whats what.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Naphtha hasn't changed. Plenty of alleged mechanics like to use gasoline as their main degreaser, and most of them don't blow themselves up either. (Most.(G)

From Wikipedia: "White spirit (UK)[note 1] or mineral spirits (US, Canada), also known as mineral turpentine (AU/NZ), turpentine substitute, petroleum spirits, solvent naphtha (petroleum), Varsol, Stoddard solvent, or, generically, "paint thinner", is a petroleum-derived clear liquid used as a common organic solvent in painting.[1]"

Basically, if you can distill something out of crude oil, it can be called "mineral spirits".

Hey, city kids think all wood burns the same, too. Never seen an MSDS on the pre-split wood bundles they sell in supermarkets, funny thing. Just says "wood".(G)


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Do oil lamps still come with Ouiji boards?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Assuming that you COULD find a proper marine-grade Ouija board, would it also curse like a sailor?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Definitely dont have a problem with LED lights, but i do like the ambience of my kerosene lamps. I do quite a bit of cold weather stuff and i have never had a central heating system. I find alcohol space heater in the galley and one or two kerosene lamps create a nice but subtle warmth. Its not heating a cold boat to room temperature but it definitely warms things up. My Den Haan throws enough light to read by.

Heres my Den Haan on a cold January day in the St Lawrence Valley aboard a shrink wrapped boat.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

I used fisheye (not flat)velcroed on the bulkhead truck rear view mirrors .With a teak trim was quite pretty and really improved the dispersion of photons.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I can envision a kerosene lantern heating the inside of a small boat to some degree, but in my Morgan 33 Out Island, you wouldn't even know it was lit. It takes nearly 30 minutes for 2 propane stove burners to warm the cabin up 20 degrees above the outside temperature with everything closed tight.

Now, lets talk about the carbon monoxide, seriously. Keep in mind that carbon monoxide is heavier than air, which is why carbon monoxide detectors are placed close to the floor. Cracking pen an overhead hatch won't cut it! And, because CO is absorbed in the bloodstream 300 times faster than oxygen, and is difficult to eliminate, it doesn't take a huge concentration to do you in - it can happen with constant exposure to a small amount delivered from what appears to be a harmless source. The damage my not be fatal, but some of the internal damages can be permanent, especially to the heart and brain. During the mid 1960s, when I worked at the University of Maryland Hospital in Baltimore, I treated dozens of young children and a few adults for low level CO poisoning. It usually took two to three days for the CO to completely clear from their hemoglobin, the treatment of choice, placing them in a hyperbaric chamber until their blood level was close to zero. The vast majority of these patients were exposed to toxic levels by kerosene heaters placed in the livingrooms and kitchens of their homes to provide heat. Some, however, were poisoned by defective, gas water heaters that were in their basements. Ironically, the bedrooms were usually on the second or third floors of their homes. You may think your boat leaks enough air to ventilate out any toxic gasses, but in reality, those gasses, particularly CO, are too dense to be evacuated with anything less than an exhaust fan and a wide open port to allow fresh air to enter the cabin interior.

Good luck, and have a Happy, Healthy New Year,

Gary


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Once spent a "let's work till we drop, stay on the boat, and do it again the next day" weekend on a friend's boat. And since it was a cold fall weekend, he said don't worry, he's got this alcohol heater.

We woke up with the entire interior looking like a rainforest after a storm. First and last time either of us ever used an alcohol heater, and that one found a new home somewhere shortly after.

Maybe I've spent too much time outdoors below zero, or maybe I just understand insulated clothing better than heaters. Dunno. But I'll stick to alcohol that comes from Scotland, properly bottled, well behaved, and rarely aflame.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Its true, kerosene, like other combustibles produces carbon monoxide, so most decent sized boats have CO detectors, which of course will also detect exhaust leaks. Pretty much the entire nation of Japan heats with portable Kerosene heaters.

I would say i would want a CO detector on any inboard powered boat.

As far as alcohol goes, ive used it for boat heating for years, burns clean, but does cause moisture issues. I dont burn it over night. In the evening, when everyone comes in from outside, alcohol space heater is on for a couple hours. When bed time comes, alcohol space heater off, kero lamps off, every one into their down sleeping bags. Morning, im first one up, alcohol heater and lamps on, hot water on the alcohol stove for tea/coffee/hot chocolate. You cant treat it like an automated central home heating system, because thats not what it is. I used this strategy for liveaboard on a 24000 lb boat in Canada, so its not like its something i just tried out once. Of course augment with electric heat when available.

Yes, i still recomend guests wear toques and sweaters if we are on the boat in near freezing conditions. Its not a perfect solution, but it does take the dege off.


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## twoshoes (Aug 19, 2010)

I think you may have mixed up CO with CO2 when it comes to density Gary. CO is slightly lighter than air, (28.1 molecular mass versus 28.9) while CO2 is heavier at 44. The difference between CO and air are slight enough that it doesn't matter. Any air movement at all is enough to keep them mixed up except in a completely undisturbed environment. Studies have shown there is no significant difference in measurement based on what height CO detectors are placed.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Yeah, I sometimes get confused at my age, trying to remember all the science stuff I learned more than 50 years ago and which gases had the highest molecular density. However, the one thing I distinctly recall is how rapid CO was absorbed in hemoglobin, and that just a tiny amount of CO displaced an enormous amount of 02, thus resulting in death to so many youngsters, and adults, in those old Baltimore row homes. The ME would often visit me in the hyperbaric chamber room to consult with the attending physician about the condition of some of the survivors of these catastrophes and talk with them on the chamber intercom system. Now, you would think those old row homes had more air leaks than anyone can imagine, but in reality, they were fairly tight, even with those old, sash-weight operated windows. Not much exchange of air at all.

As for as air movement in the boat, in my boat, which has a huge interior, the only air movement at night while sleeping was my sailing buddy snoring loudly from the quarter berth, or when he was frequently making his way to the head at night. If that cabin were to be contaminated with CO, it would not have escaped from any openings, unless it was mid summer when the hatches were open. When I returned from Florida in mid March, that cabin was sealed tight as a Mason Jar. I didn't want that 35 degree air seeping in from anywhere. My biggest worry was when heating the cabin with the propane stove was that I would burn up all of the oxygen in the cabin, which is possible to do, especially on a small boat.

Happy New Year, everyone,

Gary


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