# Right of way at the finish?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I was approaching the finish line yesterday ,on starboard, flying the chute. Another boat came in on a port tack , slightly ahead of me then turned down right in front of me. I took his wind and we started overtaking him. I didn't want to go below him so I started to pass on his port side. He started to head me up and at that point I was very close to the pin end of the line and was afraid he was going to push me off the course, so I went below and lost all wind and missed 3rd by 1/2 second.
Question: Does he have to give me room to finish even if I'm the overtaking and windward boat? In this situation I would have been pinned if I had decided to stay to windward of him and might not have been able to stay on the course.


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Was this other boat on port tack the entire time? I think this takes precedence over the windward leeward and overtaking rules ... could be wrong but ...

I hope you protested him.

Mike
Full Tilt 2


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

I was faced with similar situation once, but I was the ahead boat on port tack. We were approaching a round-off buoy when this starboard tack boat came up my stern, rob my wind and proceed to collide onto my stern rail. I discussed this with an off-duty race official who promptly told me I was in the wrong for not giving way to a starboard tack boat, nevermind he's upwind, nevermind he robs my wind and I've no steerage, nevermind he is so-call over taking. He is starboard tack and I'm port tack and that settles it, he has the right of way. I came away with bent stern rail and bruised ego. So moral of the story, "starboard tack rules".


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I guess my real question is... Do they have to treat the mark as an obstruction irrespective of proper tack, or over taking vessel, and give me room too finish?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If in fact you were on starboard and they were on port, you had right of way, and should not have had to alter course to avoid him. If he forced you to deviate from your intended course he has fouled you.
If he had gybed cleanly in front of you, and became leeward boat on the same tack/gybe, the onus falls to you to keep clear.
However, if you then became overlapped approaching the finish, he cannot "stuff you up" and force you on the wrong side of the finish line (like he could to a barging starting boat). 
As I write this it occurs to me that the 2 boat length circle may apply to the establishment of the overlap like it does at any other mark.

Fun, huh?


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Lets all try to remember also what defines a starbord or port tack. I for one grew up thinking it was defined by the side of the vessel the wind is coming from. If coming over port side is a port tack.... WRONG! A port tack is defined by the boom pointing to stbd side of vessel. Thus two vessel can be going downwind with booms on opposite sides and the one with boom on stbd is on a port tack. It is even poosible in this situation that the wind on the port tack boat is coming from the port side astern (a little bit anyway). 

So moral is Stbd tack has right of way. If you are unsure and are on port tack while other vessel is on stbd then IGNORE ALL OTHER RULES YOU THINK YOU KNOW and GET OUT OF THE WAY! The other boat probably has ROW. If you ever challenge a stbd tack boat while you are on a port tack you had better know the rules inside out because you are likely wrong.

My 2 cents from being DSQ in a situation where several rules seemed to be in play. In my case I afterward approached a national level judge with the question and his answer was STBD has ROW and nothing else mattered in that case. I then took a voluntary DSQ.

Mike
Full Tilt 2


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'm clear on P/S rules but lets just assume two boats on the same tack even. and lets assume his proper course isn't toward the pin end i:e he has his pole up against the head stay trying to push the windward boat(me) off the course. It's my understanding that irregardless of the tack you cannot prevent someone from crossing the finish line.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*He can push you past the mark, BUT*

HE has to go past the mark too!

If you have inside overlap at the two boat length circle, he MUST let you in.

Steve
Alchemist


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If a boat on starboard is just laying the finish pin, say, I don't think he's under any obligation to let a port tack boat in. The port boat would, if necessary, have to take the stbd boat's stern and then finish. At least that's how I would read it. If you're port and try to muscle in, if he has to alter course I think you're toast.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I belive the old rule was you could force them off the course but you had to go with them then fight your way back to the line and cross.Apparantly that changed a few years ago (I've only been racing for a couple of years). I'll have to look it up but I'm pretty sure if your overlapped at he finish and cant duck the other boat they have to let you through.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Yeah, that's possible, can't say I'm totally up on the latest versions of the rules. It'd be good to know for sure, wouldn't it?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

*Rules*

It is difficult to imagine the scene described in the lead post. Which side did you have to leave the finish mark? If to Starboard, HE may have been entitled to room. His "heading you up" may have been him trying to get around the mark. If he had an overlap with you at the 2-boatlength circle and was the inside boat, you would have to give him room, even if he was on Port tack. If you had to leave the finish mark to Port, his "heading you up" makes no sense. If you are on starboard tack with the chute up, and a boat on port slides in front of you, and you then come up to him and pass him, how is he going to head you up? You're on starboard AND (if you're leaving the mark to Port) you're the inside boat. He's on port; it isn't a windward/leeward situation. He has no rights, and might as well start doing his penalty circles right then.

Rule 18.2 outlines the basic rule for overlapped boats rounding a mark. It says the outside boat has to give the inside boat room to get around the mark. If the inside boat also has right of way, the outside boat also has to keep clear. So... a lot depends here on which side you were supposed to leave the finish mark. If you were leaving it to starboard, you needed to give him enough room so he could get around it. If you were leaving it to port, he needed to not only give you room but also keep clear of you. Hope this helps.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

paulk said:


> It is difficult to imagine the scene described in the lead post. Which side did you have to leave the finish mark? If to Starboard, HE may have been entitled to room. His "heading you up" may have been him trying to get around the mark. If he had an overlap with you at the 2-boatlength circle and was the inside boat, you would have to give him room, even if he was on Port tack. If you had to leave the finish mark to Port, his "heading you up" makes no sense. If you are on starboard tack with the chute up, and a boat on port slides in front of you, and you then come up to him and pass him, how is he going to head you up? You're on starboard AND (if you're leaving the mark to Port) you're the inside boat. He's on port; it isn't a windward/leeward situation. He has no rights, and might as well start doing his penalty circles right then.
> 
> Rule 18.2 outlines the basic rule for overlapped boats rounding a mark. It says the outside boat has to give the inside boat room to get around the mark. If the inside boat also has right of way, the outside boat also has to keep clear. So... a lot depends here on which side you were supposed to leave the finish mark. If you were leaving it to starboard, you needed to give him enough room so he could get around it. If you were leaving it to port, he needed to not only give you room but also keep clear of you. Hope this helps.


Why is this difficult to imagine? I was almost, dead downwind to the pin end of the finish i:e inflatable to port R/C to starboard, on a starboard tack. The other boat had gone to the right of the course in search of wind and came back up to the line on a hot angle, on a port tack. He got in front of me and started to head toward the line, still at a slight angle to the the course.when I came down on him to get his wind he resumed his original course of heading toward the pin end,again at a hot angle i:e pole almost up against the head stay. since I wanted clear air I went as high as I could without Jibing and could have just snuck by him to windward. That's what lead to my original question because at that point I would have become the overtaking boat and to windward.


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## Pipier (Jan 4, 2005)

noscreenname said:


> when I came down on him to get his wind he resumed his original course of heading toward the pin end,again at a hot angle i:e pole almost up against the head stay.
> 
> *At this point, IMHO, port/starboard rules still apply. If he forced you to alter course, he fouled you.*
> 
> since I wanted clear air I went as high as I could without Jibing and could have just snuck by him to windward. That's what lead to my original question because at that point I would have become the overtaking boat and to windward.


A technical point here: Since you were not on the same tack, windward / leeward does not apply. In fact, if you were still on starboard, then he was windward of you, and you were windward from his perspective.

Also, I agree with paulk regarding rule 18.2. Rule 18, if it applies, supercedes port/starboard. Once you were "about to round or pass a mark you were required to leave on the same side" then you need to determine if you were overlapped or not. If so, he must give you (the inside boat) room to pass the mark and also keep clear of you (since you were starboard). If you were clear astern at two boatlengths, he does not have to give you room (18.2(c)).

By the way, I think we were in your race, although happily not the fouling port-tacker. I sail Cebu, a blue-hull Colgate 26.


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## jjohnstone (Aug 22, 2002)

*RRS That apply*

The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) that apply would be Rule 10 except that you are passing a mark so you need to look at rule 18, 18.1 and 18.2.

Rule 18 says you need to give a boat room to pass a mark if they have overlapped you inside the mark within two boat lengths of the mark. From your description this seems to apply.

Rule 18.1 tells you this rule does not apply for boats on opposite tacks when on a beat to windward or when one of you but not both must tack to round the mark.

From your description, you were not beating and neither of you had to tack to pass the mark, so the rule applies and you must give the other boat room to clear the mark.

Rule 18.2 Describes the basic keeping clear rule including the statement that if there is reasonable doubt that an overlap may exist, you have to presume it exists.

Question for you: If you had sailed a hotter angle out on the course, could you have forced the port tack boat to Jibe or go behind you?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

inkfinny said:


> The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) that apply would be Rule 10 except that you are passing a mark so you need to look at rule 18, 18.1 and 18.2.
> 
> Rule 18 says you need to give a boat room to pass a mark if they have overlapped you inside the mark within two boat lengths of the mark. From your description this seems to apply.
> 
> ...


. I was on starboard.... He was on port....I was windward ....He was leeward...(full overlap) He had gone out into "no mans land" in search of air. Why would I follow only to be windward and on the same tack, in bad air? 
He tried to run me off the course by heading up on port at the last moment. How does anything you've stated above apply? He had to give ME room to finish. Why is this such a grey area?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

*Black & White*



noscreenname said:


> . I was on starboard.... He was on port....I was windward ....He was leeward...(full overlap) He had gone out into "no mans land" in search of air. Why would I follow only to be windward and on the same tack, in bad air?
> He tried to run me off the course by heading up on port at the last moment. How does anything you've stated above apply? He had to give ME room to finish. Why is this such a grey area?


This is NOT a grey area. Based on your more detailed description you were not only on Starboard tack, but you were also Inside boat (if you were within 2 lengths of the mark). He was required to keep clear of YOU. What is "grey" about the incident is how you let him get away with it without calling him on it. "Starboard" or "Room" or then "Protest!" would have been three well-chosen words in this situation. If I recall correctly, only "Protest" is required by the rules to be hailed. Better luck next time!


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