# Lake Champlain to Lake Ontario route



## fireman182 (Jan 22, 2016)

Hello
I'm looking at a few vessels to purchase on Lake Champlain NY. 

I have two options to bring her back home to Lake Ontario. 

Truck or sail. 

I don't have any charts or plotters so any help is appreciated. 

What would be the shortest distance? Best route? 

If anyone has any experience doing this let me know!
Thanks


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm going to have a boat shipped from the Vermont side of the lake to Milwaukee, WI. Will be about $4000. One good planning tool, if you want to attempt a water delivery would be activecaptain.com.

I'm not an expert on the area, but, it appears you could either go North out of Lake Champlain to the St. Lawrence River, or South out of Lake Champlain to the New York Canal system. Either way would be a pretty good haul.


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## ebourg (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm guessing north to the St. Lawrence and then west to Ontario would be quickest. I do believe that either route would require stepping the mast.


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## fireman182 (Jan 22, 2016)

Thanks for the replys. Any idea how long a distance it would be? 

I wouldnt be doing this alone but I could certainly attend if I get the time off work. 

2 weeks more or less?

Anyone have experience shipping a cradle?


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## fireman182 (Jan 22, 2016)

Barquito said:


> I'm going to have a boat shipped from the Vermont side of the lake to Milwaukee, WI. Will be about $4000. One good planning tool, if you want to attempt a water delivery would be activecaptain.com.
> 
> I'm not an expert on the area, but, it appears you could either go North out of Lake Champlain to the St. Lawrence River, or South out of Lake Champlain to the New York Canal system. Either way would be a pretty good haul.


What size boat are you shipping?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Certainly two weeks is more than ample. Either route is viable. Going the St Lawrence route you will face fewer, but generally larger locks and a generally strong current in the river - think in terms of making three knots or so at most from Sorel (downstream from Montreal) to Lake Ontario. The Erie/Oswego Canal route is generally easier because you don't face the current and the locks are smaller. I think I would pick the latter route to take. Moving the cradle by itself would not be particularly cheap. Best would be to find a truck taking a boat in the direction you want who could take the trailer as well. You would not need the cradle until the fall so you could contact the many boat trucking companies in the region and see what they can offer.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Going north from Champlain you would transit the Richelieu Canal, and last I heard that was only a 4.5' deep draft. So depending on what you call "boats", it is out of the question for many sailboats.

Going south, IIRC you have to drop the mast to clear bridges, and that means you'll need to be sure you having a working engine on each boat.

You can find out the challenges (locks, bridges,) on each route depending on what you want to do, but offhand if this is all news to you, you might be better off calling for trucking estimates. Some trucks can lift some boats without any extra cradle. Others will require it. And you want to be at both ends to see that there's no damage loading or unloading.

If you say "I need a pickup on June 6th" you'll get one rate, but if you say "I need a pickup anytime in the first three weeks of June" you may get a much better one, if they can schedule your trip to fill in an empty return from some other trip.

FWIW.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

hellosailor said:


> Going north from Champlain you would transit the Richelieu Canal, and last I heard that was only a 4.5' deep draft. So depending on what you call "boats", it is out of the question for many sailboats.


I would be interested to learn when you last heard this.

I live on Lake Champlain and have sailed and boated here all my life. Every summer thousands of boats transit back and forth between Montreal and Lake Champlain, including many, many sailboats in the 30-40 foot range. This would be a HUGE deal if depth was was down to 4.5 feet. It will be a very quiet summer on the lake if there's any truth to that.

Also, it's the Richelieu River that runs from Lake Champlain North to the St. Lawrence River. The Chambly Canal is the portion containing the locks.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

The cheapest way to get the cradle back would be to tow it. If your cradle isn't too huge, the U-haul 6' X 12' trailer would work (get the one with the full width gate, so you can slide the cradle on and off). If you need to get the cradle on the trailer yourself, jack the front end up with a car jack, then winch it onto the trailer. Even if you need to rent a tow vehicle, it would still be cheaper than hiring to haul it.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> What size boat are you shipping?


That was for a 32' X 10.5' boat. Obviously, your shipping distance would be something like half of mine. I wouldn't put a request into Uship. There are lots of haulers that make bids that are not insured, not experienced, etc. If you have a flexible schedule the haulers can arrange a back-haul to make your cost less. You will still be paying for unstepping the mast on one end, and re-stepping on the other. You may also need to pay for some de-commissioning to prepare the boat for transport if you can't be there to do it yourself. As you can tell, I am knee deep in this myself right now!


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## fireman182 (Jan 22, 2016)

Barquito said:


> That was for a 32' X 10.5' boat. Obviously, your shipping distance would be something like half of mine. I wouldn't put a request into Uship. There are lots of haulers that make bids that are not insured, not experienced, etc. If you have a flexible schedule the haulers can arrange a back-haul to make your cost less. You will still be paying for unstepping the mast on one end, and re-stepping on the other. You may also need to pay for some de-commissioning to prepare the boat for transport if you can't be there to do it yourself. As you can tell, I am knee deep in this myself right now!


Thanks for the tips! I checked out uship but like you say its hit or miss.

I'm looking at a boat with similar dimensions. Would you recommend your company for transport?


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## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

I believe (but check this for yourself) but you probably need 3 line handlers for at least some of the locks on the St Lawrence. You can do the NY state canals with 2 people.

Easy to get the mast put back up in Oswego, NY if you're coming thru the NY state canals before heading wherever you need to go on Lake Ontario but it would probably be quicker to go up the St Lawrence. I'd guess the NY canals would be an easier but slower trip compared to the St Lawrence. Coming up the St Lawrence you'll be fighting current part of the way so there's more to it than just distances.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Apparently some of the information has been distorted here (and in online book reviews, which also refer to the "Richelieu Canal" which apparently is properly called the Chambly Canal at the end of the Richelieu River?

About 20 years ago I had checked out the route for a friend looking to go north into Canada, and at that time the published "dredged depth" was given as 4.5 feet for parts of the route. Perhaps it has been dredged deeper, perhaps the information was wrong, but as I said, that was what I heard.

Is there a river or canal authority which now publishes a specific deeper depth? (As opposed to whatever it scours out to be?) Or are those boats centerboarders?(G)


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> Apparently some of the information has been distorted here (and in online book reviews, which also refer to the "Richelieu Canal" which apparently is properly called the Chambly Canal at the end of the Richelieu River?
> 
> About 20 years ago I had checked out the route for a friend looking to go north into Canada, and at that time the published "dredged depth" was given as 4.5 feet for parts of the route. Perhaps it has been dredged deeper, perhaps the information was wrong, but as I said, that was what I heard.
> 
> Is there a river or canal authority which now publishes a specific deeper depth? (As opposed to whatever it scours out to be?) Or are those boats centerboarders?(G)


Several years ago, a friend of ours aborted a planned trip north to Maine, intending to head up the St. Lawrence into the Great Lakes. The weather didn't cooperate and after laying over a couple of weeks in Marblehead, he headed back south and stopped over in Newport, RI, of charts for "Plan B"--via the Erie Canal.

However, the experts at the Armchair Sailor told him the Erie Canal was closed because of ice damage to one of the locks. Oops!

He then checked out the Lake Champlain/Richelieu canal option (Plan C?) but the charts indicated that his 6' 6" draft J35C couldn't make it. One again the Armchair sailor showed his stuff and suggested calling the canal authority to verify canal depth. At that time the canal was good for 6 feet--but, wait. With 24 hr notice, the canal could float his boat--and that's what happened.

So don't assume you are defeated until you check the facts directly with the source.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

ChristinaM said:


> I believe (but check this for yourself) but you probably need 3 line handlers for at least some of the locks on the St Lawrence. You can do the NY state canals with 2 people.
> 
> Easy to get the mast put back up in Oswego, NY if you're coming thru the NY state canals before heading wherever you need to go on Lake Ontario but it would probably be quicker to go up the St Lawrence. I'd guess the NY canals would be an easier but slower trip compared to the St Lawrence. Coming up the St Lawrence you'll be fighting current part of the way so there's more to it than just distances.


Any idea where or how to check on required number of line handlers? We are planning to go down the St. Lawrence this summer, just the 2 of us. I believe I have read of other couples doing this but can't swear they didn't have additional crew. I've read what I can find and saw no mention of this requirement.

This handbook doesn't mention it, but it's for commercial shipping.

http://www.media-seaway.com/seaway_handbook/seaway-handbook-en/ship_transit.pdf


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## Windward Star (Jul 26, 2015)

A few years ago I transported a Catalina 30 from Ontario to Champlain. Took 4 days, the first week of may so short days, on the Oswego/Erie canal with 2 of us on board. Very easy, pleasant trip. I considered the North route but decided the canal was easier.
I trailered the cradle in an open U-Haul.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

hpeer said:


> Any idea where or how to check on required number of line handlers? We are planning to go down the St. Lawrence this summer, just the 2 of us. I believe I have read of other couples doing this but can't swear they didn't have additional crew. I've read what I can find and saw no mention of this requirement.
> 
> This handbook doesn't mention it, but it's for commercial shipping.
> 
> http://www.media-seaway.com/seaway_handbook/seaway-handbook-en/ship_transit.pdf


I have traveled the Seaway many times on powerboat deliveries.
Pleasurecraft are required to have two crew downbound and three crew upbound (upbound is a little trickier due to the turbulence caused by flooding the lock). Some of the lock employees in their off hours pick up some extra cash as the third hand. When you check in at the first lock you will have to call Seaway Control, ask them about available third hands if needed. This service is something they do off the books on their own.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Big difference going up and downstream on the St Lawrence. Going down, two competent people can handle the boat. Going upstream, the canal requires at least three people and you may need more depending on the weight of your boat. When you are going down you enter a full lock. The attendant hands you two lines and the water goes out of the lock quite gently. In the other direction you enter an empty lock with lines hanging down that you need to corral and get to the two line handlers. The water comes in, often fairly strongly, and it can catch your keel and either push you into the wall (which can be quite rough and even have largish holes in it).or it can push you off the wall. If this happens it is best to just let it ride up 10 feet or so off the wall. If it presses you into the wall you *really* need to push hard before your fenders and/or fender board get got in a hole. We went through the Welland Canal (same construction) rafted next to a trawler and had six people pushing off at one point. We likely will be going down and up the St Lawrence this summer with our Bristol (40,000 pounds). Only two us going down; will have at least four coming up.

We went from the St Lawrence to Lake Champlain on a Niagara 35 (5' draft) a number of years ago without difficulty.


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## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

Here's the St Lawrence Seaway guide for recreational vessels. There's a section on crew members at locks on p 17. It claims you only need 3 handlers if you're going up the Welland Canal but I'd call one of the numbers in it to ask.

There's a section on their website for recreational boating.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Boat poker, Killarney, and Christian....thanks for the info. Helpful. I had not found that before.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

hellosailor said:


> Apparently some of the information has been distorted here (and in online book reviews, which also refer to the "Richelieu Canal" which apparently is properly called the Chambly Canal at the end of the Richelieu River?
> 
> About 20 years ago I had checked out the route for a friend looking to go north into Canada, and at that time the published "dredged depth" was given as 4.5 feet for parts of the route. Perhaps it has been dredged deeper, perhaps the information was wrong, but as I said, that was what I heard.
> 
> Is there a river or canal authority which now publishes a specific deeper depth? (As opposed to whatever it scours out to be?) Or are those boats centerboarders?(G)


20 years ago = "last I heard that was only 4.5 deep...."? That seems like some unhelpful information to pass along without qualifying it. And I doubt that was even true 20 years ago.

I believe most guides publish the depth as 6.5 feet minimum but most of the route has more and is well marked.

The Richelieu River runs from the Northern end of Lake Champlain all the way to the St. Lawrence. The Chambly Canal and its locks run alongside the Richelieu River in a portion where the elevation change is too great for normal boat traffic.

For as long as I can remember, Quebeckers having been bringing their BeneJenne's down to Lake Champlain, most of them in the 30-40 foot range. Chances are if you see a BeneJenne in the distance, it will have a Quebec registration.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> I'm looking at a boat with similar dimensions. Would you recommend your company for transport?


They will truck my boat in May. But, so far they seem easy to work with. Boat Transport | Yacht Transport | Sailboat Transport | International Boat Shipping | Cradles | Shrink Wrap


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

I've been up and down the Champlain and parts of the Erie several times alone in a 33' 13500# boat. Really isn't that difficult alone as long as you stay well downstream of locks while you wait to lock uphill--there's a strong current in close as the lock empties. Otherwise, enter at idle speed, stop at a ladder, vertical pipe or hanging rope.
Get a guidebook for whatever route you take. See what's in your local library to get an idea of what to expect.
It's an easy, safe, fairly scenic, sometimes a little boring trip. Many small towns along the way have public docks to tie up overnight to at no charge, some with free showers and most with an easy walk to stores. I've always found that lock masters let you overnight on their walls also. NY State is trying to attract tourism to the Erie/Champlain Canal system, so it's a pretty hospitable place to traverse these days.
NOAA chart 14786 is a book of 61 charts that makes navigation marker to marker easy.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Something else to consider...will this new to you boat perform reliably? An do not rely on a survey to think it is good to go. Surveyors miss stuff or misrepresent the severity of issues. Often a boat for sale will have sat for a considerable time. Take it out for a short test run and all is well but run it all day and gremlins pop up. Happens quite often to new owners. If you have a short window and push the boat 8 to 12 hours every day, you just might get waylaid by issues.


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## Smokemaker (Sep 25, 2021)

I'm trying to take a boat (power boat) from lake Champlain to lake Ontario. It's a 43 ft with beam of 12.5 and height of 12 ft clearance. I'm not very experienced. I have been boating for two years. What route would you recommend based on your experience? 
Any info would be appreciated.



caberg said:


> I would be interested to learn when you last heard this.
> 
> I live on Lake Champlain and have sailed and boated here all my life. Every summer thousands of boats transit back and forth between Montreal and Lake Champlain, including many, many sailboats in the 30-40 foot range. This would be a HUGE deal if depth was was down to 4.5 feet. It will be a very quiet summer on the lake if there's any truth to that.
> 
> Also, it's the Richelieu River that runs from Lake Champlain North to the St. Lawrence River. The Chambly Canal is the portion containing the locks.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Smokemaker said:


> I'm trying to take a boat (power boat) from lake Champlain to lake Ontario. It's a 43 ft with beam of 12.5 and height of 12 ft clearance. I'm not very experienced. I have been boating for two years. What route would you recommend based on your experience?
> Any info would be appreciated.


 Up to Montreal or down to Waterford and the Erie Canal to the Oswego canal and into Lake Ontario.
Either way is easy but be aware of the seasonal lock closures.


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## Smokemaker (Sep 25, 2021)

Chart plotters all give me the Erie Oswego canal way.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Smokemaker said:


> Chart plotters all give me the Erie Oswego canal way.


Chart plotters give you both ways if you buy the correct chips.


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## Smokemaker (Sep 25, 2021)

Based on your experience which is easier? It's going to be me and my girlfriend. I don't have a bow thruster or a joystick. Is that ok. Will the current be very strong?


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Smokemaker said:


> Based on your experience which is easier? It's going to be me and my girlfriend. I don't have a bow thruster or a joystick. Is that ok. Will the current be very strong?


If you have twins, no thruster is required. Currents in parts of the St'Lawrence will be very strong. Currents can occassionally be strong entering or leaving locks. What is your destination ?

Check out our page on the NY State Canal system.


Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca


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## Smokemaker (Sep 25, 2021)

I'm going to Toronto, I have done thousand islands to Toronto before. 
I do have twins.
But from the looks of it the Oswego canal is easier for a beginner 🤔


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Smokemaker said:


> I'm going to Toronto, I have done thousand islands to Toronto before.
> I do have twins.
> But from the looks of it the Oswego canal is easier for a beginner 🤔


Is the boat State Registered, US Federally Documented or have you changed it to Transport Canada Licensed or Transport Canada Registered. Did you know the canals close October 13th ? Are you Canadian citizens ? Are you the owner ? There are hoops to jump depending on your answers


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