# elizabethan 29



## El malabarista

Hello all
After lurking for a few days i have decided to go for it. 
My wife and i are building what we believe to be an Elizabethan 29. She was left forgotten in the corner of a yard having never been completed. 
Hull and deck are complete however the coachroof needs a lot of work and she needs a complete fitout. 
We are fairly experienced crew but this will be our first foray into ownership. 
Our intention is to first build her and then spend a few years getting to know her culminating in a slow cruise to nicaragua where we have a second home. 
We have rented a large barn in which to work situated across the road from our house. 
Any tips/ advice gratefully received
Dave and Ros


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## WanderingStar

First be sure that this is the boat you want. It may well take more time and money than buying a boat that is ready to sail. Work steadily. Focus on getting her ready to use instead of complete for cruising with all equipment. You can sail a boat without an interior using camping gear. Don't stick on perfection, it takes too long. Do good, solid work with the best material you can afford. Be patient, this will take a while. Good luck and let us know how it works out.


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## Thestar

Hi,

I spent six months last year totally rebuilding an Elizabethan 29 a Kim Holman design it is a huge job if you want any free advice or details of where to get parts etc or on how best to do what 1st etc let me know have a vast amount of pictures from it sitting on a 45 Gallon Drum through to it looking like a super yacht did stern gland, totally refurbished inside, new windows, scraped, sanded and repainted hull and decks, mast and boom and replaced all the wood work outside with new toe boards and a hardwood cockpit area. Then totally rewired the entire boat. 

Sailed it from Aberystwyth in North Wales to Poole is the South West they are a dream to handle and sail lovely. Even at water line of 20ft by 7ft two of us and a dog lived aboard for six months it was lots of fun. A true blue water pocket cruieser.....

I am just about to depart Friday for a few weeks sailing but if you email me I will post or email at each port we stop at. 

Hope this is of some help

Kindest Regards

Will


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## El malabarista

Hi Will
Many thanks for your kind offer. 
My wife and i bought this project yacht
as we wanted to design her systems and interior to suit our dream of sailing her to our beach house in Nicaragua. We realise we are a long way off as neither of us has ever skippered a yacht before. 
We were told that she was moulded from the plug of an Elizabethan 29 by an old boatbuilder who was unfortunately unable to complete her due to ill health. 
The hull was completed in 1998 and the deck was designed by him and built from marine ply which he then glassed over. There are substantial
Differences from the original design of the coachroof especially. 
We have his original drawings and a few calculations as to speed and sail area etc. She then passed to a non
Sailor who ( bless him) had no idea and apparently sought no advice. He put on all the deck fittings stanchions mast step pulpit and pushpit by screwing self tappers straight into the fibreglass with no backing of any sort. These we can remove and glass in hardwood backing blocks. 
There is no engine fitted so we have bought a reconditioned 2gm20 yanmar which we intend to fit when we remove the coachroof to raise the head height by four inches. 
The mast that was sold with the boat is 30' 11'' made by Proctor spars in aluminium. There is no boom. 
The mast step is damaged and needs to be replaced. The chainplates are very thin and inadequate ( in my opinion) and need to be hacked out and replaced. 
The cockpit is fitted with two lewmar winches which need to be removed and fitted with backing blocks. 
The rudder was badly fitted and does not have full range of movement as it binds on the aft edge of the keel. 
There is no cutout for the prop so once we have the engine in we will need to align the propshaft fit a stern gland and fashion a cutout. 
We need to create a chain locker in the forepeak drainage for it and then use the rest of the space for sail storage. 
I will stop there as the more i am writing the more i am realising what a HUGE task i have undertaken. 
The good news is i have already removed 675kg of tiny lead shot from the keel and stored it. ( worth almost as much as we paid for the boat!)
I have welded up a trailer to move her to our new house when we finally exchange contracts next month. 
I am planning to stop work in september and work full time on her (along with building a 2 storey wooden chalet/garage to house my inlaws and my Harley)
We do have a build business with carpenters painters electricians plumbers etc most of whom have pledged to help me out on weekends and holidays so i am not alone. 
My wife is an architect my father in law is a cabinetmaker and civil engineer and i am usually fairly good at fixing stuff however none of us have ever built a yacht before. 
We have been buying a long list of things for her including instrumentation
Water and fuel tanks deck hardware etc etc. 
Your advice is eagarly awaited
Kindest regards
David and Ros


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## El malabarista

*a thank you*

Hi there many thanks for your solid advice. I can see a long road ahead of us which at times will become difficult. It's good to know that there are friends to help along the way. 
We will keep on plugging away and trying to enjoy the ride. 
Ros and Dave


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## Thestar

Hi,

Sorry this will be brief about to sail.

chain plates in wet locker & toilet shaped like an upside down U frame with about 12 bolts thourgh them. Grind off the bolts if rusted keep plates in shape take to a Stainless steel fabricator ours where replaced cost about £40 each

Think about the engine / stern gear space AFTER you put the cabin back on? Ours had a large bolted down maintenace hatch in the cockpit floor... Was exceptionally good when the propshaft sheard the keyway as we approached Weymouth bridge at 8am peak hour. Lost all drive tied up alongside hatch out repaired and back underway in under two hours. Top tip 

Replace your hard woods with thought go to a proper wood merchant and barter Teak for the strike boards on 29ft Elizabeathan last yr was around £800 we used Sapeally my spelling is wrong but it cost £300 and was oil treated on fitting so a quick wipe with teak oil leaves it looking a million dollars.

Will post a few pictures in album here if you want more let me know or PM me if you want all the technical specs of the 29's I have all the lots on laptop.

Think dual water & fuel tanks for passage making on your scale with one way valves in the air tank breathers to keep out saltwater.

The cockpits of 29's drain slowly why not add a bilge pump.

Bilge pump automatic fitted to the last 29 after stern gland leaked 25NM out at 4am the the manual bilge blocked not an issue if your savy we where prepared. Put one at the lowest point normally under the steps leading down the saloon.

Template inside your boat using wall paper and masking tape then you can make any wood fit perfect without any waste.

Have to go being nagged will post again

Kindest Regards

Will


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## El malabarista

*si amor*

Hi Will thanks for taking the time out. 
We have one water tank ss 80ltr for under cockpit locker another bow tank 50ltr and a fuel tank of 30ltr. 
Your idea with the paper cutouts is great and one we will use. We luckily have pretty good contacts in the timber business due to our work and pretty good rates at trade prices. We were thinking Iroko but will research your suggestion. 
The chainplates we have a in perfect condition but look like they came from a box of meccano. We have experience of being knocked down 2000 nm offshore and we like the idea of coming back up with the rig intact. 
My wife survived a total of 6 knockdowns and 3 total inversions in the indian ocean ( surely a record) during a hurricane in a bennetau and the rig survived mostly intact and able to make the nearest port. 
The engine hatch idea sounds brilliant. I will get my skilsaw out now. 
I am unable to PM as yet but my email address is david at lavidanica.co.uk. 
We should have Si Amor in her quarters in the barn near to Tunbridge Wells by the end of september we would love for you to maybe come take a look and punt some ideas around. We will eventually be looking for a mooring on the south coast as well. I have done quite a lot of sailing around the Solent but mostly in dinghies. I went through a phase of passage making in an elderly Wayfarer
with a great friend. We did a few hairy irish sea adventures in her as well. 
I had better go now as i need to cook a huge chili for a family gathering. 
Thanks again for your ideas
Dave


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## 193599

hi my first post! be kind! wow that sounds like a project the star tell me where did you buy the boat? have you sold her? you done all that work on your own? that is pretty impressive! your a brave man to take on a project like that! me i have an elizabethan 29 fantastic boats! mine looks like its just come out the factory its like a new boat!! glad i didnt have all these hardships!! I have sailed her half way round the U.k fantastic boats, and Dave i wish you luck in your upcomming project and know when she is finished you will be rewarded for all your hard work, fantastic boats. 
clare


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## Thestar

sea-bird said:


> hi my first post! be kind! wow that sounds like a project the star tell me where did you buy the boat? have you sold her? you done all that work on your own? that is pretty impressive! your a brave man to take on a project like that! me i have an elizabethan 29 fantastic boats! mine looks like its just come out the factory its like a new boat!! glad i didnt have all these hardships!! I have sailed her half way round the U.k fantastic boats, and Dave i wish you luck in your upcomming project and know when she is finished you will be rewarded for all your hard work, fantastic boats.
> clare


Hi Sea-bird
Sounds like you failed to read all the posts ;-) I know your boat looks like it just come out the factory got the pictures in my albums I have never bought one myself nor sold one just renovated to a first class standard... With an old lost friend... I try not to mention them for fear of causing distress. 
Take care
Best Wishes
Will


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## El malabarista

*elizabethan*

Hi there seabird
Thanks for your supporting words. We are desperate to actually SEE an Elizabethan to get an idea of whether the information we have so far is correct. We are not sure if she is one at all we just looked on the internet for yachts that looked the same! A lovely old guy at the marina where she was built SEEMS to remember that the hull was moulded from an Elizabethan he THINKS and that is all the info we have. If you are around the south coast at all we would be very grateful if we could come and take a look over her. 
Im glad to hear that she sails well. We really hope we can lay this mystery to rest as knowing that others have solved the many quieries we have would be really helpful. I wonder if you could ( for instance) run a tape measure over the boom and give me the dimensions. I am trying to source one on the net now. 
Many thanks
David


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## 193599

Hi David, my boat is on the south coast, I am in Dorset, i am only here for a few more days! my boat is in the water afloat, there is another elizabethan 29 in the yard here on the hard! where you will get to see the real shape! although the older and newer Elizabethans have different shaped rudders made of different materials, some wood some grp encapsulated and some just grp, so you have to look at the hull shape rather than the rudder! i find the most distinctive feature is probably the counter stern!! find some images of this to compare its not like many other boats! think there are 2 E29s on boatshed at the moment if you register with them you will get to see nearly 50 different pictures and angles of each of the boats! i can measure the boom but i dont believe it to be the original, the sail if you have any will have an E and sail number, have you any picture of your boat you could put one on here maybe we can have a look and identify it for you! if your around poole in the next few days and want to have a look give me a call many thanks. p.s also you could look at the E.O.A if you havent already!!


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## Lady Blue

Hi Thestar

I#m currently looking at doing up an old Beister. Would you recommend a steel boat or GRP. I'm looking at gutting her (Lady Blue) and manufacturing new wood bits for the interior. How easy was it to do, can you give me any tips as it seems like you have done alot of these sort of rebuilds. more importantly do you have any pics of your glorious E29 for us to see especially if its broken into stages.

Cheers
Fritz


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## 193599

Elizabethan 29


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## 193599

here are 3 links with many pictures you must sign up to boatshed to view them tho! hope this helps.


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## Thestar

Lady Blue said:


> Hi Thestar
> 
> I#m currently looking at doing up an old Beister. Would you recommend a steel boat or GRP. I'm looking at gutting her (Lady Blue) and manufacturing new wood bits for the interior. How easy was it to do, can you give me any tips as it seems like you have done alot of these sort of rebuilds. more importantly do you have any pics of your glorious E29 for us to see especially if its broken into stages.
> 
> Cheers
> Fritz


Lots of pictures send me a PM will give you a dedicated link for the e29 it's a lower case E.
Beister renovation would be Roman so ALL WOOD ...NO grp or steel.
It's easy to do if you know how hence this wonderfull forum where members freely share there knowlage and advice for others.
Have met some boat owners who just dap on some paint and fix loose stuff with gaffer tape... Yet they seem happy Depends on what you really want from a vessel.


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## Lady Blue

Beister is actually steel unless you know of wood that holds a magnet. The interior would be good to see from your e29 though. cant you put the pics here so the others could see your work too


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## Lady Blue

Hey Thestar,
Sorry about that, yes pre 1960's and when they first started they had wood you are right but most the decent ones are metal whether steel or alloy. unforetunately the original yard closed in the early 80's


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## Thestar

Lady Blue said:


> Hey Thestar,
> Sorry about that, yes pre 1960's and when they first started they had wood you are right but most the decent ones are metal whether steel or alloy. unforetunately the original yard closed in the early 80's


Hey thats ok I do actually know my boat stuff and my advice / opinion is given freely without any predudice etc. 
I gain as much knowlage from Sailnet as I give often I gain more to be honest.
Would suggest as a new member you read through some of the intro's and rules.
like : http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/74171-new-moderation-rule.html 
Kindest Regards Will


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## Lady Blue

Why thank you for spreading your knowledge so freely.
IMHO if you are going to make a statement like "Beister renovation would be Roman so ALL WOOD ...NO grp or steel." , you should make sure your facts are correct!!
Sounds a little different to "As far as I know"
Have an enjoyable evening
Fritz


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## mitiempo

Here is more information and better pictures of an Elizabethan 29.
Elizabethan 29 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales


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## 193599

the archive is great on all their boats, but my point was the underwater profile which is distinctive!!! will confirm E 29!!


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## Lady Blue

Hey SEABIRD, you seem to know quite a bit on boats especially E29's. Have you got any pics of the interior for us? From what i can see, Beisters and E29's are similar in shape and style so some interior tips of layout could e useful
Many thanks
Fritz


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## mitiempo

The link I posted above shows both underwater profile and enough pictures to show the layout very well.


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## Lady Blue

Many thanks for that Mitiempo. Does tend to show what i am after.


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## Thestar

Hi Dave,
The Elizabethan 29's are clearly defined by a lowercase letter e moulded in to the hull at the bow on both port and starboard sides just before the start of the coping line as per pictures enclosed.
Many thanks for the invite I would indeed like to come along and see the boat.
I shall be back on land middle of September for a week visiting my sister in Berkshire before departing to the Mediterranean for the winter warmer sailing.
My mobile number is 07513072453 email [email protected] substitute the DOT to stop spammers.
Kindest Regards
Will


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## Thestar

Sorry placed the pictures in my profile here on Sailnet see my albums.
Kindest Regards
Will


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## El malabarista

*e29*

Wow thanks to all for a informative set of links and info. 
Looking at the pictures i am convinced that she was taken from an e29 as the hull shape is identical. There is no e29 on the moulding as we have the moulds themselves and i have looked. 
We dont quite know what to do with the moulds. Maybe when she is finished and looking like the one in the photos someone will want to build one themselves 
Anyway thanks a lot and i am trying to get to Poole this weekend to have a look for myself. 
Thanks again i no longer feel as though i am stumbling in the dark.


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## mitiempo

Post some pictures when you can.


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## [email protected]

*cyano*

hello el malabarista, I read your blog with great interest as I am doing what you are about to do ,but I must admit a stupid error,The e29 I have is a yawl and the saloon was like the black hole ,the deck covered in curling tek dek and all together a mess .What I should have done, of course,was take Don Casey,s wise advice, keep sailing while you can ,but no being a hard head I ripped everything out and now I have to finish before I can get back on the briny ,The point I am getting to is that being just down the road from you in southborough I would very much like to see the yacht , here,s hoping


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## El malabarista

Hi there
You most certainly can come take a look at the project i would be delighted. She is in Essex at the moment but hopefully work starts in earnest next month. We are waiting to exchange on a house in Eridge so we will be practically neighbours. It is very interesting to hear of your problem with Tekdek as we were considering it. 
We'd love to come and take a look. Do you think it was poor prep, adhesive or the product itself?
Regards
David


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## [email protected]

*cyano*

hello Dave and lady wife,I thought I would pop down to Eridge and find you and Si Amor but no luck! lovely area ,very spread out though. I am off to faversham on sunday to work on my lizzie 29 if you want any measurements from the boom or mast, post it.Give me a clue where to find you ,I still want to see the boat.regards ,Roger


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## wkeith01

Hi, I may be too late to post a reply.

The Elizabethon 29 is an excellent yacht good strong and hard, the only drawback as far as I can tell is the internal led keel. If it was not bedded in properly it could force it's way out through the bottom of the boat...we had that happen once and was caused by extremly bad weather. They were built by Peter Webster Ltd at Ropewalk Boatyard Lymington Hants. Ropwalk Boatyard is now part of Lymington Yacht Haven. I worked for Peter Webster in the 60s and early 70s as an apprentice shipwright.


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## mitiempo

You could be 2 years too late.

The problem you describe is not unique to the Elizabethan - many boats have external keels and if built properly with good floors or grid internally there are few problems.


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## wkeith01

mitiempo said:


> You could be 2 years too late.
> then pour re
> The problem you describe is not unique to the Elizabethan - many boats have external keels and if built properly with good floors or grid internally there are few problems.


Hi, As a former employee of Peter Websters and somebody who worked on every E29 built from 1966 to 1971. I can only comment on that boat. The ballest keel was internal. it was made of lead and lowered in prior to the deck being fitted. Once the keel was put in, it was wedged in place with wood packers around the top to hold it cental, the fibreglassers (or gouers as we called them) would then pour resin around between the lead and hull. The problem came when you had a gouer (spelling) that did not care. I had to help repair an E29 at Poole that had it's ballest keel come adrift, the shipwright I was working with cut a couple of holes approx 12" square each side of the hull at keel level and there was no resin around the keel at any point so allowing it to move in heavy weather. I can only talk from 'MY' experiance. Just a quick mention, the lead was fibreglassed over and the water tank fabricated above it with the floors and cabin sole above that.

The E29 was the only yacht Websters built with an internal ballest keel and everbody commented on the weak spot where the two halves of the hull were joined and could not understand why we could not change the mould to accomdate an external Steel keel as all the other Elizabethans had. The E35 may also have had an internal keel but these were never built at Ropewalk Boatyard by Peter Websters but built under licence by an independent company.

Also a note of interest is, people have spoke of the E30 but no mention of the E 9mtr which was the racing version with a trim tab on the keel, Peter Webster sailed one of these himself.

I have sailed in quite a few E29s and E31s and 1 or 2 E23s as I loved sailing, when Peter Webster took all the new yachts out for compass swing I was always asked to join them as crew so Peter Webster could have a sail afterwards. I have also raced against E29 and they were always very fast and seaworthy, in my mind the E29 and E31 (not the Ketch) were the best two yachts we built.

Also the best Elizabethans were the early ones built whilst Mac McEntyre (spelling) was forman, he left when Tony Winter started as manager, things went downhill from there on.


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## wkeith01

Thestar said:


> Hi Dave,
> The Elizabethan 29's are clearly defined by a lowercase letter e moulded in to the hull at the bow on both port and starboard sides just before the start of the coping line as per pictures enclosed.
> Many thanks for the invite I would indeed like to come along and see the boat.
> I shall be back on land middle of September for a week visiting my sister in Berkshire before departing to the Mediterranean for the winter warmer sailing.
> My mobile number is 07513072453 email [email protected] substitute the DOT to stop spammers.
> Kindest Regards
> Will


Hi, Just a thought. You may like to know why Peter Webster called his yachts Elizabethans? They were named after his daughter Elizabeth. He had a son as well named Charles but I think he died fairly young.


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## maxcon

*Re: elizabethan*

Give me your details and I will send you some photos of mine. 
Cheers.
Barry.


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## Denismartinsail

El malabarista said:


> Hello all
> After lurking for a few days i have decided to go for it.
> My wife and i are building what we believe to be an Elizabethan 29. She was left forgotten in the corner of a yard having never been completed.
> Hull and deck are complete however the coachroof needs a lot of work and she needs a complete fitout.
> We are fairly experienced crew but this will be our first foray into ownership.
> Our intention is to first build her and then spend a few years getting to know her culminating in a slow cruise to nicaragua where we have a second home.
> We have rented a large barn in which to work situated across the road from our house.
> Any tips/ advice gratefully received
> Dave and Ros










I own this Ela I wish to replace seal on tiler if there is one in cockpit floor any problems please


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## Denismartinsail

wkeith01 said:


> Hi, As a former employee of Peter Websters and somebody who worked on every E29 built from 1966 to 1971. I can only comment on that boat. The ballest keel was internal. it was made of lead and lowered in prior to the deck being fitted. Once the keel was put in, it was wedged in place with wood packers around the top to hold it cental, the fibreglassers (or gouers as we called them) would then pour resin around between the lead and hull. The problem came when you had a gouer (spelling) that did not care. I had to help repair an E29 at Poole that had it's ballest keel come adrift, the shipwright I was working with cut a couple of holes approx 12" square each side of the hull at keel level and there was no resin around the keel at any point so allowing it to move in heavy weather. I can only talk from 'MY' experiance. Just a quick mention, the lead was fibreglassed over and the water tank fabricated above it with the floors and cabin sole above that.
> 
> The E29 was the only yacht Websters built with an internal ballest keel and everbody commented on the weak spot where the two halves of the hull were joined and could not understand why we could not change the mould to accomdate an external Steel keel as all the other Elizabethans had. The E35 may also have had an internal keel but these were never built at Ropewalk Boatyard by Peter Websters but built under licence by an independent company.
> 
> Also a note of interest is, people have spoke of the E30 but no mention of the E 9mtr which was the racing version with a trim tab on the keel, Peter Webster sailed one of these himself.
> 
> I have sailed in quite a few E29s and E31s and 1 or 2 E23s as I loved sailing, when Peter Webster took all the new yachts out for compass swing I was always asked to join them as crew so Peter Webster could have a sail afterwards. I have also raced against E29 and they were always very fast and seaworthy, in my mind the E29 and E31 (not the Ketch) were the best two yachts we built.
> 
> Also the best Elizabethans were the early ones built whilst Mac McEntyre (spelling) was forman, he left when Tony Winter started as manager, things went downhill from there on.


Are there any seals were the rudder comes through the cock pit floor,when not sailing no water comes in through shaft,but does when keeled over


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