# Estimate for Morgan 382 refit



## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

I'm trying to get a feel for the costs of various refit jobs. Here is a Morgan 382 for sale:

1978 Morgan 382 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The listing says:

1)Needs Bottom paint
2)exterior cleaning and varnish, 
3)Some interior water damage around ports. 
4)The bimini and dodger need restitching 
5)running rigging needs to be replaced

I'm looking for rough estimates for the cost of each of these items, specifically 1 and 5.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Would you be doing the work yourself or hiring a boatyard to do the work. Boatyard labor is about $90 / hour and up, so it will greatly affect the prices you see.


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Don't try and get into too much detail.....*

IMHO have 15% to 20% of the purchase price available (on boats under $100K) immediately after purchase to get the boat up and running and 10% per year after that and you won't suffer too much. Buying the boat is often the cheapest part of the deal.

If you want detail - Bottom paint $800 to $1500.
Running rigging - $500.

Add cutlass bearing, engine work etc. $1K
Refrig work $500
Yard bill - $$$$ 
Standing rigging - chain-plates etc etc. ahhhhggggg!!!!!

Adds up bloody fast. As the say in Europe when buying a Jaguar car - "if you have to ask how much it costs to fill her up, you can't afford her".

Love the Morgan 382 - Ted Brewer Design

Its in this book

Twenty Affordable Sailboats To Take You Anywhere


----------



## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Would you be doing the work yourself or hiring a boatyard to do the work. Boatyard labor is about $90 / hour and up, so it will greatly affect the prices you see.


Yes, I'll be doing a lot of the labor. However, stuff like redoing the standing rigging is certainly beyond what I can do myself!


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Running rigging will depend upon the line you choose I have 1500-2000 in the lines for my 30' boat. BUT, none of it is sta-set, all of it is two steps up in less stretch/strength lines. So double the cost per foot, I could see this much easy for a 38' boat depending upon which lines you need to replace. 

If you have a vinyl hull liner with foam backing. I spent over $1500, closer to 2G for all new liner. 

Cushions were 10-12K. Then again, one could have done it for about 5G hired out, to as little as 2G yourself. 

Bimini, might be easier to replace, depending upon the condition of the material. figure 2-3G for that hired out, not sure you do.

Bottom paint, I'm usually 700-800 including hauling for my 30;r, much less a 38' boat, places charge by the foot typically. I'm 1.25 gals, for a fin keel, if a full keel, figure 2 gals for a 20'r, your boat maybe double this. Paint is 125-225 or there abouts per gal.

Water damage, who knows!

People say 20% of cost for refit, NOT! it should be more like $1000-2000 per foot potential! Of course it depends upon what you want to do, how cheap you get the boat...........

I could see 30-50K for a 38' boat easy!

marty


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that it is often far less expensive to buy the same boat in better shape than it would be to buy a boat and re-furbish her.... 

Depending on your financial status and what you're planning on doing with the boat, getting a two-percenter boat might be a better option. Two-percenters are the boats that have been meticulously maintained and cared for and often require very little in the way of refurbishing or upgrading. They tend to not stay on the market for very long and can be difficult to find.


----------



## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I have never heard of 2 percenter, but I was lucky enough to buy both my boats that way. If you think you can't do the standing rigging then you should learn, because it's pretty darn simple. The amount of money you will save will pay for a descent new dink, or some other new items. This Morgan is a good boat. BEST WISHES if you purchase her.........*i2f*


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I would focus in the WATER damage and deck condition and what type of core material was used as these are the big money take the whole boat apart to fix items with potential massive cost










looking at the picture of the motor area i see a LOT of that could cost a lot of money to fix stuff


----------



## EpicAdventure (May 18, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. Couple very helpful ideas. I kind of like the 10-20% rule plus 10% each year. It is at least a nice ballpark.

I haven't looked at this boat (yet). Just been looking at a few of the Morgan 382s on YachtWorld. I think one of my big questions was answered by SD -- is it generally cheaper to buy a big project boat (at a discount) or buy something closer to "ready to go."

For example, here is a 382 that appears much closer to being ready to go.

1979 Morgan 382 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I sure do wish I didn't live in the middle of the country where there just aren't many examples to look at.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

The items you mention are not "refit" but rather routine maintenance. A boat that needed only those repairs would be termed mint.

Those are penny-ante expenses, that if you feel the need to question the cost, then you may not be ready for the "refit" items, as they are really expensive, say for example:
1. replace engine - $12,000
2. properly fix a wet deck - $15,000
3. Fix a wet cored bottom - $12,000
4. replace fuel tank -$4,000
and on and on...

SD is 200% percent correct that the cheapest way to own a good condition yacht is to pay a premium to buy one already redone. A seller is lucky/happy to get back half of what he/she may have poured into a boat...if you think you'll go in cheap and just fix-it-up, then most likely somewhere down the road, YOU awill be one of the sellers hoping to get back half of what you poured into the floating money pit.


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

You will ultimately save the most money by spending the most upfront on the purchase IMHO, meaning that if you buy the one that looks (inside and out) like the owner has restored it to near perfect condition you'll hopefully not find any major (expensive) surprises. If you can find one that has been owned by someone that is totally anal about every little detail, even if you pay 30-50% more for the boat you will still be way ahead when it's all said and done. Buying a fixer upper is generally false economy when it comes to sailboats. I personally have never done this, in fact I've done the exact opposite (several times  ), so I know what I'm talking about and am poorer for it. 
I really like the Morgan, kind of partial to Brewer designs .


----------



## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Agree 100% with those who have said it's MUCH less expensive -- in the end -- to buy a boat which has been well maintained. Trouble is, these days these are few and far apart. Many owners let their boats go...because they lack experience, interest, and/or resources. MOST of the boats on the market for sale are in this category. The really good ones are rare.

Be careful of those that "look good". Some owners take pains to make their boats look good (cosmetic only), but don't take enough care of the things that matter....mechanical, electrical, structural, etc. And, of course, these are the things which can REALLY cost down the line. Or, worse, can cause a catastrophic loss. I know of several boats which recently came to grief in this category.

One other thing to watch out for: the boat which is "loaded" with electronic and electrical and other gear. Knowledgeable owners will have made good choices. But, unfortunately, there are lots of owners who just wanted the toys, and will buy whatever strikes their fancy at the moment, irrespective of function, quality, integration, need, or other sensible requirement.

Bill


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd also recommend you read the *Boat Inspection Trip Tips* thread I started, as it will help you determine whether any boats you look at are even worth going forward on, saving you the price of a survey on boats that aren't worth looking at further.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

tommays said:


> I would focus in the WATER damage and deck condition and what type of core material was used as these are the big money take the whole boat apart to fix items with potential massive cost
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like what exactly?


----------



## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

As soon as i see the Wile E. Coyote auto fuel filter hooked up with with hoses inside of hoses and 7 clamps a motor has had a low level of care


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

tommays said:


> As soon as i see the Wile E. Coyote auto fuel filter hooked up with with hoses inside of hoses and 7 clamps a motor has had a low level of care


Hey...whatareyasaying... you must be being too picky, why there's nothing in the listing about the engine may need work!


----------



## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

sailingfool said:


> The items you mention are not "refit" but rather routine maintenance. A boat that needed only those repairs would be termed mint.
> 
> Those are penny-ante expenses, that if you feel the need to question the cost, then you may not be ready for the "refit" items, as they are really expensive, say for example:
> 1. replace engine - $12,000
> ...


Cost like these are insane, and that's why I suggest you need to learn to do your own work. I did my own fuel tank it cost around $300.00 for a new aluminum tank, and to fit it. 3 DAYS OF DIRTY WORK, but $3,700 richer.

I was quoted $4-5k for new standing rigging. Since I was pulling the mast to rewire it, and just give everything a look over. It ended up costing me under $700, and 2 days labor. One day pulling the mast, and pins. Taking it to the independant rigger. Picking it a couple of days later reinstalling everything including the mast in a day.

I had my Atomic rebuilt from the bottom up for $3k. I pulled it myself, and reinstalled it. A total of 3 days work at the most, and $9k richer. BEST WISHES in finding a good Morgan to serve you well.. .....*i2f*


----------



## utchuckd (Apr 4, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that it is often far less expensive to buy the same boat in better shape than it would be to buy a boat and re-furbish her....
> 
> Depending on your financial status and what you're planning on doing with the boat, getting a two-percenter boat might be a better option. Two-percenters are the boats that have been meticulously maintained and cared for and often require very little in the way of refurbishing or upgrading. They tend to not stay on the market for very long and can be difficult to find.


This is something I started thinking about after perusing some listings as some boats would be one price, while others of the same year/model were more expensive but obviously more equipped and in better condition. How does this affect your purchase/upgrade budget? I've seen a lot of posts that talk about saving somewhere in the 15% range to do your personal upgrades/changes to the boat. If you're going to get a boat that's already closer to go, what should you look to spend after purchase?


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

imagine2frolic said:


> Cost like these are insane, and that's why I suggest you need to learn to do your own work. I did my own fuel tank it cost around $300.00 for a new aluminum tank, and to fit it. 3 DAYS OF DIRTY WORK, but $3,700 richer.


You priced 5052 aluminum these days? Cost me over $600.00 just in materials for a new tank plus welding labor...



imagine2frolic said:


> I was quoted $4-5k for new standing rigging. Since I was pulling the mast to rewire it, and just give everything a look over. It ended up costing me under $700, and 2 days labor. One day pulling the mast, and pins. Taking it to the independant rigger. Picking it a couple of days later reinstalling everything including the mast in a day.


Again that's a hell of a price. I buy wholesale and four lowers for a 36er just cost me over $600.00 using mechanical fittings..

Parts and supplies are VERY expensive even when you have wholesale account pricing. I can't imagine doing it retail...

P.S. The really good boats rarely even hit Yachtworld.. Just made mention that my buddy Tim's boat was for sale here about two months ago and it sold to one of the first guys to email me within 20 minutes of the original post. Buyer and seller both made out fairly and NO BROKER!

There are buyers ready with cash for well maintained vessels the rest of the junk sits on the market for months to years.


----------



## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

EpicAdventure said:


> I sure do wish I didn't live in the middle of the country where there just aren't many examples to look at.


I was looking at a Morgan in Titusville Florida a couple weeks ago, but the way my financing has worked out I'm just going to go with a Pearson 323 or something along that line and possibly upgrade in a couple years.

It's a 383, not a 382, which in my book would be a plus. Here are the high rez photos I took of it: Index of /pics/boats/morgan

Can't really tell you if the boat was in amazing condition or not since I'm new to boating myself. There were a couple minor things I saw, the head was a little oder-ish(needs ventilation) and I saw an outlet that needed replacing, but otherwise I really liked it and it didn't have that "sitting around unused for years" look to it.

Ad is here: 1982 Morgan 383 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


----------



## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I was using these prices as an example of money saved. It was nearly 10 years ago I did all this work on my first boat, 30ft. Columbia........*i2f*


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

imagine2frolic said:


> I was using these prices as an example of money saved. It was nearly 10 years ago I did all this work on my first boat, 30ft. Columbia........*i2f*


Makes sense now. I was ready to ask for your secret contacts..


----------

