# Dufour 27 1977? What do you think?



## saurav16 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hi, 

I don't really know to much about dufour 27's. I was wondering if any of you knew anything about these sailboats. I know they have a volvo diesel and are a french made boat. Any information or experience would be very helpful. Thanks!


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

That's a boat that brings good memories, together with the Attalia...

We were young...and careless

Old boat, solid, slow but fun...if its cheap its a good boat...cool boat

I believe this is one of the ones we used to sail...looks better now...its been over 20 years now...

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

A Dufour 27 sure looks a lot like a Mac 26x . . . coincidence?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don't get me started TB......


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Slap some teak decks on that thing and call it Giulietta!!


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Oops, many apologies about the last comment. I was not paying attention. The Mac has a boom.

- CD


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Oops, many apologies about the last comment. I was not paying attention. The Mac has a boom.
> 
> - CD


ROFL... Mean, mean, mean.. funny, but mean...


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TB,

actually you are very very wrong, in that photo, the grey paint in the cabin might resemble, but its a completely different boat...believe me...they were really good then...but at that time...so were Alfa Romeos!!

Its a nice little boat..

See here


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I know Giu - my friend has a Dufour AND there's a Mac on the dock directly across from his boat. There's no comparison unless you squint your eyes . . . I'm just pulling your strings.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Slap some teak decks on that thing and call it Giulietta!!


You know what is funny???

On TB's post, both boats are doing what you do with yours...*going nowhere*.....  How can that be Giulietta??

Giulietta, on the other hand...broke the boom, doing what it what supposed to do....sail.... and sail hard...give it a try....

"You can't blame the Soldier for getting killed in war....but you can blame the one killed during peace"

This means in my country, that things only happen to those who try... asort of **** happens...(unless you don't do it)


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Actually, the picture appears to be a Dufour 2800 which is a 28 footer and not the earlier Dufour 27. I am very familiar with the 1970's era Dufour 27,and while I think back on them with some nostalgia, frankly, they are a miserable little boat in almost all ways. 

They began life as an early IOR rule beater. They offered a very corky motion and a very poor ability to deal with a chop for a boat of this size. They have came with small rigs which made them useless in light winds. In heavy air they lacked stability to stand up to their sailplans and have a tendancy to round-up suddenly and without warning when heeled in a seaway. This lack of sailing ability at either end of the wind range makes them a poor choice in a venue prone to variable conditions. 

As a cruiser they lack ventilation, storage, and tankage even for a boat of this size. 

I would like to hope that prior owners may have upgraded these boats over the years, as they came from the factory they were really poorly executed. Build quality was quite poor by modern standards or by US standards of that era. Equipage left much to desire, especially with regards to deck hardware size and ergonomics. Plumbing, electrical, propulsion system materials and installations were shoddily done, even for that era and in many cases, next to impossible to access to redo. 

These were comparatively expensive boats when new and so you sometimes see them at unrealisticly high prices. The one that I sailed on most was bought for less than $7 k and the owner rather quickly sunk nearly that much more into the boat bringing it up to some kind of reasonable standards. I believe the boat sold again for a little over $7K a few years later. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Wow, Jeff really doesn't like the Dufour 27... and it sounds like with good reason... can't sail it in light air, can't sail it in heavy air, tends to broach unexpectedly, not enough ventilation, storage or tankage... hmmm... not much good there.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hey Giu,

I am not sure we believe your story about how the boom broke. I know you were talking about it sailing and all that... but me's a thinkin' that its more likely that you were trying to hang off the boom like your son does. I hope you learned your lesson, though. You are lucky the mast did not snap!!!

(smile)

- CD

PS I love picking on Giu when he is on dial up. He is sitting there reading one line at a time going by... gettting madder and madder... photobucket keeps shutting down... HEHEHEHE!!


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Saurav16,

No to the Dufour, yes to any boat at this site: Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts

I am trying to save you some heartache!!!


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> Actually, the picture appears to be a Dufour 2800 which is a 28 footer and not the earlier Dufour 27. I am very familiar with the 1970's era Dufour 27,and while I think back on them with some nostalgia, frankly, they are a miserable little boat in almost all ways.
> 
> They began life as an early IOR rule beater. They offered a very corky motion and a very poor ability to deal with a chop for a boat of this size. They have came with small rigs which made them useless in light winds. In heavy air they lacked stability to stand up to their sailplans and have a tendancy to round-up suddenly and without warning when heeled in a seaway. This lack of sailing ability at either end of the wind range makes them a poor choice in a venue prone to variable conditions.
> 
> ...


So one may ask, Jeff, what were you sailing then, in the 70's and early 80's that was so much better than that? Those boats and others like that, was all we had in Europe then...I was racing 470's then, maybe just starting with the Stars...so a ride in a larger boat for us was a thrill...I never saw what you describe....maybe we coulnd't sail...or maybe we did...or maybe our standandards were low....compared to yours...we will never know...

We had those (I admit to todays standards they a piece of crap, but back then....what were your choices??) Dufours, and some early ****ty Beneteaus, a few Jeanneaus some Starts and a lot of Kelts....and a whole bunch of wood homebuilts......these Plastic boats...they seemed very good boats to us...they were the big boats for me a Kid....they never pretended to be more than a local sail boat with beds for a few...they were made to sail within 10 miles of the coast, by normal people in normal winds...never meant to be live aboards, or need special masts and sails...the boats were dinghys with a few more feet and a cabin...everybody knew that...

Anyone doing more than that...or that did not understand that...well maybe should be into something else instead of sailing

That is why I am asking the question...what were you sailing then that was so much better?


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu, two words:

A CATALINA

Hahahhahahaabahahhahaha!! They have always been FARR ahead of the curve. Good race boats, they are!!


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The early 1970's were a strange time in boat design and construction. During the early to mid- 1970's I owned a wooden 1949 Swedish Folkboat and then a 1939 Stadel cutter, but I raced on a number of early 1970's boats expecially later in the decade and into the early 1980's. I also raced on quite a few mid-1970's era boats that I thought were a big improvement over the early 1970's boats. 

In no particular order the 1970's era boats that come to mind that I have raced and would prefer over the Dufour included C&C 24's, Ranger 23's (which I really came to enjoy for its sailing ability), Ranger 26 (but much later), Cal 25's and 2-27's, Hughes Northstar 500's (owned a QT version), Tartan 26 (which I liked alot), Pearson 26's, Paceship 26, later 70's Kirby 25's (which I later owned and really liked), J-24's, Seidelman 25 (as much as I wanted to I didn't really like this boat), Morgan 27 (which I would consider a much better sailing and slightly better built US equivilent to the Dufour), Alberg 30's, Pearson 31, Bristol 33/34 (I really liked this boat), Tartan 34, Ericson 35, Ranger 37, C&C 39, Tartan 41, and Newport 41. 

I think most were better sailors than the Dufours of that era and most offered better or equal build quality.

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Auuhhhhh, I looked through that list and have not seen Catalina mentioned. Once you go with a cat, you never go back!! That is why you have had so many boats... you just have not had the right one yet. www.catalinayachts.com!!!

- CD

PS - Cat stands for Catalina and NOT catamaran, SD... quit getting excited.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CD-

I prefer Trimarans...


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> The early 1970's were a strange time in boat design and construction. During the early to mid- 1970's I owned a wooden 1949 Swedish Folkboat and then a 1939 Stadel cutter, but I raced on a number of early 1970's boats expecially later in the decade and into the early 1980's. I also raced on quite a few mid-1970's era boats that I thought were a big improvement over the early 1970's boats.
> 
> In no particular order the 1970's era boats that come to mind that I have raced and would prefer over the Dufour included C&C 24's, Ranger 23's (which I really came to enjoy for its sailing ability), Ranger 26 (but much later), Cal 25's and 2-27's, Hughes Northstar 500's (owned a QT version), Tartan 26 (which I liked alot), Pearson 26's, Paceship 26, later 70's Kirby 25's (which I later owned and really liked), J-24's, Seidelman 25 (as much as I wanted to I didn't really like this boat), Morgan 27 (which I would consider a much better sailing and slightly better built US equivilent to the Dufour), Alberg 30's, Pearson 31, Bristol 33/34 (I really liked this boat), Tartan 34, Ericson 35, Ranger 37, C&C 39, Tartan 41, and Newport 41.
> 
> ...


I agree the 70's were screwd up...very very few boats were fiberglass, and the market was...well for us...no market...we had those plywood side construction boats, that looked like shoes...

we had a lot of smaller sailboats, where we were kings in light boats..Vaurien, Snipe, Optimist....420, 470, (man, I was going fast on the big highway...then the 80's Olympics in Moscow....were boycotted... well we coulnd't go, so suck it up), Flying Dutchman (I have a smile now), fireballs, dragons, but as far as big boats...you had a lot more in the US...you had the larger boats we had the smaller boats....

I remember sailing in an aluminium Pen Duick, about 6.5 meters...flush deck...what a boat...made weird noises though...scary boat...fast. That was a BIG boat for me !!!! 6 meters!!! We could stand on the boat....

See we had none of those boats you talk about (we had the J's, but they were real ****ty then...you know that, and some rangers, but very very bad)....most of what he had was (to todays standards) poorly built. We still have none of those brands you mention...we sailed whatever we could bring from France, Sweden and Spain plus what was built locally...at that time the Germans...well they were still figuring out archimeded principle then...and the Italians made beautifull boats...but they didn't float....

So to us, back then, the Dufour (a **** boat today) was a great thing, and we had fun in sailing them..and it made us better sailors..and I still think its a little old great boat....That is why I was   when you went against my idea of that boat....

I remember a few years back in the end of the 90's I lived in Morocco 4 years, my father in law that was the Portuguese Tennis Chamipon in 1756 or something like that...wanted to play tennis...we were in a resort south of casablanca....there was this small Moroccan guy, with a tennis racket missing more than half of the strings, he was the local resort tennis instructor...he beat my father in law with a 2 string racket...to him...his racket was the best thing in the world....its all in the heart.

I hate dialup


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> TB,
> 
> actually you are very very wrong, in that photo, the grey paint in the cabin might resemble, but its a completely different boat...believe me...they were really good then...but at that time...so were Alfa Romeos!!
> 
> ...


Ah come on Giu. Alfa stopped making half way decent cars in the 70's. You were still at school.


----------



## earling (Jun 8, 2006)

just to put in my two cents . . . I have an ETAP 28, a close relative to the Dufour 27 (same era, both french designs, both similar looking). All other things aside, I wouldn't buy a boat with a Volvo in it, especially an aging diesel. Just spent -- grab a seat -- $335 for the rubber saildrive gasket which is supposed to be changed every 7 years. When this boat goes, no more Volvos. Great engines, parts are a rape. You might want to factor that in.


----------



## mandovai (Nov 28, 2006)

earling said:


> just to put in my two cents . . . I have an ETAP 28, a close relative to the Dufour 27 (same era, both french designs, both similar looking). All other things aside, I wouldn't buy a boat with a Volvo in it, especially an aging diesel. Just spent -- grab a seat -- $335 for the rubber saildrive gasket which is supposed to be changed every 7 years. When this boat goes, no more Volvos. Great engines, parts are a rape. You might want to factor that in.


Your etap 28 designed in 1978, is a Belgian boat designed by Van De Stadt, a fairly famous DUTCH designer, not french.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Gui, 

I truly understand what you are saying. I think that this kind of discussion is strictly a matter of perspective, the view from where you are standing. 

Like you, I have been sailing since the early 1960's. In the 1960's, I loved the boats that we sailed because these were all that we knew. In thier day, these old CCA era boats seemed like greatly advanced designs, although even then, there was a lot oif discussion about the major negatives of the rule driven short waterlines that was typical of CCA era boats. 

My family had a Van de Stadt designed Contest 25. Its fin keel-spade rudder design seemed like a revelation compared to the fin keel with attached rudder boats like the Pearson Ariel that were more typical of that era. 

As newer designs like the Cal 40's and Cal 2-30's hit the market they upped the anty even further and I can remember getting on a Cal 2-30 and being bowled away by how great a boat that was relative to the boats that I had sailed previously.

By the mid 1970's, I began to look back on the CCA era boats, that seemed so great in thier day as being very limited in thier capabilities across a range of conditions. I also began sailing on traditional watercraft and seeing their virtues, which led me to believe that the CCA era boats were a racing rule driven, ill advised detour from the evolution of quality yacht design.

In the 1970's, when boats like the Dufour were new, they seemed like great improvements over what came before. Compared to the CCA Boats they replaced, they were fast and had superior deck hardware and layouts, but they were also a little finicky to sail. Seen in their era that did not matter much, because looking from the veiwpoint of the 1970's these seemed like such improvements relative to what we knew before. 

It was only as design and build quality improved further, the short comings of these designs quickly became apparent. It is only when seen looking back from today, that we realize how poorly these boats sailed relative to how well a 27 footer could sail, that raw copper wire wrapped around a screw head is not the way to make an electrical connection, and that the clear plastic hoses used for overboard plumbing attached to brass gate valves is not the best way to do things. The small Volvo diesels of the 1970's seemed miraculous, but of course compared to the better modern designs, they were heavy, noisy, not all that reliable, and vibrated redicuously. 

I still try to sail on boats of all different eras. It helps me see them in perspective, to remember their virtues as well as their liabilities. I try to get a sense of how they were built. It helps me understand how things age, so that I don't make the same mistakes when I upgrade my own boats. 

Like you, I look back on the boats of this time warmly for the joys that they brought me during that era. But when someone asks about buying one of them today, I can only look at them through the perspective of today and suggest that there are much better boats out there for the dollar. 

Regards,
Jeff


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff...slow down...   

I sailed in the 60's but had diapers!!!!  

I started in the 70's....in Optimists....   you're old!!!  

Let me tell you something funny...

My son races Optimists for CNL in Lisbon, so whenever I can, I take him to the club, and (secretely) rig his boat, you know...tighten the knots, adjust the main foot, well you know...its my kid....he has to go faster....

Anyway...they have a few 420's and 470's there, so I called my bowman, (lead brain) and we took a 420 from the club for a ride...it was so funny...I can't move as I could before...and so cluln't he...he fell off the trapeze...I laughed and almost peed myself...but we still embarassed the kids...

We did ok....but was so funny...

Another funny ride was with a 49er!!! the kids that built my boat are the Cahmps in 49er here, so I sailed with one of them..well.I tell you...I was sore for a week...have you sailed a 49er??? If you haven't go try it....makes the GONADS hurt!!!!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The really funny part is that Alex sails in the 2000's and still has diapers.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> The really funny part is that Alex sails in the 2000's and still has diapers.


Do you want a photoshop???? do you????

They're not diapers...they are BIG SACK boxer shorts...but you wouldn't understand


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh... Alex, I didn't know you needed a Colostomy bag.. that's too bad... I thought the diapers were doing the trick... I guess not...  _<dog ducks and heads for cover>_


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Sorry, misread your post and so I thought you were closer to my age than you are. 

I haven't sailed a 49er. Frankly, I haven't been in a trapeze in something over a decade. When I was younger I raced and sailed Dutchmen and 505's but when I look at modern 505's and Int 14's they are barely recognizable as the boats that I had enjoyed dacades ago. 

I am just now starting to revisit my racing future. I have been racing J-22's, single-hand racing my boat and been a mainsail trimmer and tactical kibitzer on bigger IMS boats. I am starting to think that I need to stay with smaller boats as my upper body strength just isn't what it used to be and the current trend in Euro style mainsheets combined with dinghy style starts, and current style of heavy air mainsheet/ traveller technique really puts a premium on being able to put out quick bursts of high strength with either arm. 

Jeff


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jeff-

Time to start working out again... What amazed me earlier this year is that some bozos didn't think that sailing was all that physical a sport... My question is have they been out on a sailboat in good wind??


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

You're right. For the past few years, I have been going into training over the winter but this year I have not had a chance to do much. Racing bigger boats is a very physical sport. Even cruising the way that I like to sail the boat, kept up to speed with the right sails up and trimmed properly, takes a fair amount of physical conditioning. 

Jeff


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> Sorry, misread your post and so I thought you were closer to my age than you are.
> 
> I haven't sailed a 49er. Frankly, I haven't been in a trapeze in something over a decade. When I was younger I raced and sailed Dutchmen and 505's but when I look at modern 505's and Int 14's they are barely recognizable as the boats that I had enjoyed dacades ago.
> 
> ...


Jeff,

Well looks like I might be 10 years younger....I am 18 now!!! 

you raced 505 and Dutchmans?? cool.... when I moved up from the 470's I went into Dragon and Stars...and in the 470's (I was rudder), the trapezze never appealed to me... but I was initially going to the Flying D, but they lost popularity to the Stars, Solings and Dragons...(you should see some of the hi tech dragons we have here....you'll drool all over them..teak decks, carbon fiber...., that's why I decided on teak for mine, and went light on everything else, and used CF and Kevlar...nothing beats the charm of a clean line teak deck Gentleman racer, don't you agree???). We are very strong in Dragons here...they're so sexy!!! One of the pretiest boats in the water...1930's design...

I was looking at a newer 470 today from Sebastien Ziegelmayer...uhuhuh...if I had one of those then...I'd be the Coutts of Portugal now!!!ehehehe

And as far a getting heavy, and weaker I agree with you (not on the starts...I like them)...well I'm not weaker, yet, just lazyer...and still have a lot of upper body power, but I get tired faster, and my knees hurt...well that is why I decided on the Admirals main arrangment, designed/made a really neat looking main traveller with R1 material (thanks Lewmar) and traveller adjuster, moved the main winches a little back than normal (helps single), and used a lot of purchases for my boom jack, so everything feels like a 470 for real....
My main is perfectly sheeted in by my 9 year old, and you can seat and "smoke" those puffs seating near the winch, and use the traveller alone...for the gusts, without de-powering much, off course this is when I am alone. When racing its a different story...there's a guy there doing it...screw him...

Have you raced in Europe??? Should try it out...its getting really relly hard, fast and competitive...we even have a Portuguese TP52 now...that ....well...its like sex, really.

So what was my solution to mobility, belly and lazyness....see bellow...off course it was built as I wanted...much harder on a production...

Check the traveller, and what I mean...










Bellow is a friend and his son, as you can see, the kid has the main and traveler within reach, (on both sides) and its all very very light...the traveller moves even on high loads to windward like if it is butter!!! Then the blocks in the traveller have ratchets and can work on half track on leeward if you want to, leaving the windward side cleated and leeward side block on ratchet...like the blocks on the 470's..
That's a unique piece, made in conjunction with Lewmar...cool huh??










Then bellow here, the blue rope behind the main traveller, is my backstay, instead of a heavier back stay adjuster, I have a purchase under the deck, that block swivels from Port to Stbd, so you can adjust backstay on either tack, and the rope enters the deck thru a tube, (idea to use that swivel block came from Dragon boom jack), and now you have everything near the wheel and all is very light...










Pullin the back stay requires some more rope to be pulled, but its light and easy. A stop prevents over pulling, by idiots...










Then on the outside, on the stern, I have another purchase for the backstay. So 2 purchases, very light instead of a large hydraulic...cool??










So that problem of "old age" mobility is solved...there's no way I will sail smaller now!!


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff...I'm on dialup so it takes forever....

Here is a good bird eye view of the "lazy man's" cockpit, that shows the arrangment.

its open, clean and wide...easy to manouver...and I included angled seats in front of the wheel where I seat when singlehandling. Sometimes if needed I place the main sheets on the genoa winches and control the sheets like that










Bellow a zoom on the backstay swivel block and cleat...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Did the boat come with the pretty boat bunny???


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

IS IT JUST ME.... OR IS EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM COMPLETELY LOST AFTER READING GIU AND JEFF'S POST!??? IS THAT EVEN ENGLISH!?? I TRIED PUTTING INTO THIS TRASLATOR, BUT STILL COULDN'T UNDERSTAND A DAMNED THING!

Chinese-English Dictionary

From now on, please speak (write) in small, little dinstinct phrases with pictures of the boats (and owners manuals) so those of us that accidently stumble on this thread

HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!??????


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

And just so you two know: I sailed a Lego's 4-block when I was two. Still in diapers, I might add. I then graduated and BUILT MY OWN Legos 10-Block. A real sailing machine. For the 1970's vintage, they were well ahead of their time. However, I look back with great admiration at the old years of the Lincoln Logs. Old wooden designs... ahh, I just reminisce the days. Of course, the Lincoln Logs really were pieces of crap (to be later replaced by the Fisher Price one Desings) which really floated better than their predesceors... but, those really were the glory days...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I understood some of it... but never sailed a 505 or a 470... primarily because I never was into the racing side of sailing...


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I thought a 470 was a 47 Foot Catalina?
and I guess a 505 would be a 50'6" boat of some kind. Right?
Not some little dinghy.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Cruisingdad: 
To quote Ayn Rand's response to William F. Buckley, (who had just said, "Miss. Rand, in the vernacular of our time, 'We are having a failure to communicate'.") 

"Mr. Buckley, I am communicating perfectly adequately. You are simply failing to comprehend."



As to Gui's photos, 
-Neat set up on the backstay adjuster. Its similar but slighly more complex but also far superior to the set up on my Farr 11.6. 
-The traveller/mainsheet set up is pretty much what I have been dealing with on the Beneteau 40.7 except that the traveller track is raised closer to deck level giving a wider travel and eliminating the need for the swivel block. Unfortunately the hardware is Lewmar junk so its constantly getting distorted.

At 56 I suspect that I have more than 10 years on you but who knows. I haven't had weight gain with age as much as a loss of upper body strength and my shoulders get pretty cranky by the end of a long weekend of racing. I joke that I used to have chest muscles but now they have migrated to my waist. I always wear a belt to prevent them from slipping down to my ankles. I suspect that it is really embarassing to walk around with your chest muscles flapping around above your shoes. 

Jeff


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

> Cruisingdad:
> To quote Ayn Rand's response to William F. Buckley, (who had just said, "Miss. Rand, in the vernacular of our time, 'We are having a failure to communicate'.")
> 
> "Mr. Buckley, I am communicating perfectly adequately. You are simply failing to comprehend."


Hey Jeff:

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!!


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Jeff, 

I sailed a lot the 40.7, both cockpits, (the IMS with the track on the floor and tiller and the "standard" version with the "wimpy" track on the seats, and the 10 mile diameter wheel!! I admit the track on the First is dull, and not so effective and is ****ty).

My track is Lwemar, is thicker, and the traveller is way much better its a modified R1..

The 40.7 has the traveller cleats sideways and they are really really a pain...I understand you. Does the boat you sail like this?

Modify it...

The option of being on the floor, but slightly raised, was due to my preference while sailing, its more effective and less distortion under load...every hole is bolted down, and ther's a CF stiffner underneath.

But also because we use the boat for the vacations, with half of the population of Portugal visiting us!!

As far as the gear, I worked very close with Lewmar UK, and we kinda designed the controls together. HArken in the US, also helped, as the hi load blocks are Harken. (I had a bad experience with Harken on X Yacht I owned previously, specially winches and clutches, but the blocks WOW...very good).

So, appart from the boom, its pretty much beefed up... well that traveller block desintegrated when I broke my boom... I have a new one there already.

We should meet.


By the way...here in Portugal we call flapping chest muscles...TITS!!!


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> IS IT JUST ME.... OR IS EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM COMPLETELY LOST AFTER READING GIU AND JEFF'S POST!??? IS THAT EVEN ENGLISH!?? I TRIED PUTTING INTO THIS TRASLATOR, BUT STILL COULDN'T UNDERSTAND A DAMNED THING!
> 
> Chinese-English Dictionary
> 
> ...


This from the *"Catalina 400 Technical Editor"*? If that doesn't explain a lot...


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

T-

I know nothing about racing or any of that stuff (well, for the most part). Not my cup of tea. Before I became the MS Editor, I told the commodore the same thing: I AM NOT A RACER, HAVE NOT INTEREST IN IT, KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT IT! I put that out in the open... up front!

Of course, a Tartan owner would not understand racing either.... as, if it is not blowing 4000000 mph in Cat 200 winds, you do not reach hull speed!!! HAHA!!

- CD


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Well its not for a lack of trying!


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

the AFLCIO, NAACP, IUD, GT, INS, DHS, IBEW, USCG, and the EI-EI-O will have to be consulted, afterwhich afaik, its DILLIGAF


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CP, if you're talking to an IUD, you got some serious problems...


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I have to ask CD, what did you not understand? Was it my English?


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu,

Nah. I just don't know the boats... that is all. I was just harrassing you and Jeff!!!

- CD


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Giu,
> 
> Nah. I just don't know the boats... that is all. I was just harrassing you and Jeff!!!
> 
> - CD


You're obviously better off than CP, who is talking to contraceptive devices again..


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

CD, in simple terms, he made some custom hardware to enable control from one spot in the cockpit. That spot is where his wheelchair will be locked down. The extra roomy cockpit allows for mobility while he is feeling up to using his walker.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

bestfriend said:


> CD, in simple terms, he made some custom hardware to enable control from one spot in the cockpit. That spot is where his wheelchair will be locked down. The extra roomy cockpit allows for mobility while he is feeling up to using his walker.


You really don't want to go there...... 

I did not say I was geriatric...I said its harder to move, because my knees are weaker...and the gear was designed like that so I can singlehand her...form both sides...

You wish....just wish...you could move on her on any other boat as I do.... 

So keep the wheel chair.....


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Alex-

Bestfriend got you good.. fair and square.. .I think he deserves a photoshop for that ..  or are you on your two cans on a string internet connection again??


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

HeHe You are so easy to antagonize, I can't help myself. Of COURSE I would like to have that cockpit(and the rest), we all would. Now get ready for all the liars to say they wouldn't.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

bestfriend said:


> HeHe You are so easy to antagonize, I can't help myself. Of COURSE I would like to have that cockpit(and the rest), we all would. Now get ready for all the liars to say they wouldn't.


Nah, I prefer my sailboat to have a non-self-detonating boom.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

bestfriend said:


> HeHe Of COURSE I would like to have that cockpit(and the rest), we all would.


I'd like to have it except for 1 little detail, it would hang over the side of my boat about 3ft on either side!!!


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by bestfriend
> CD, in simple terms, he made some custom hardware to enable control from one spot in the cockpit. That spot is where his wheelchair will be locked down. The extra roomy cockpit allows for mobility while he is feeling up to using his walker.
> 
> ...


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHHHAHAHAH!!!! Good Job BF!!!! You did great!! However, just to warn you, you have now entered the domain of Photoshop!! But, you will survive it!! We all do!


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Nah, he knows I don't care.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My head still spinning from Gui and Jeff’s posts…CD you’re right…what language was that?


----------



## Murphie (Apr 16, 2007)

*Different 27' Dufours:*



saurav16 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't really know to much about dufour 27's. I was wondering if any of you knew anything about these sailboats. I know they have a volvo diesel and are a french made boat. Any information or experience would be very helpful. Thanks!


Of the older Dufours there are three 27 foot long , but only one Dufour 27.

There is the Dufour 2800, 27 feet long produced in the late 70's into the eighties, the boat referenced earlier in this thread.

Before that there was the very similar early 70's Dufour Safari , which was 27 feet long and also had a cabin trunk and and a galley forward. See Dufour Web Page

Finally, there was the "real" Dufour 27, built side by side with the Safari in the mid seventies. This was a very different boat, flush deck, high freeboard and high reserve bouyancy that made them pretty seaworthy, with numerous transatlantic crossings, including in the old singlehanded "OSTAR" race.

The higher decks also gave them a lot of room down below, making them a very decent liveaboard. Almost 6 feet of headroom. There was even a three or four bottle winecellar down below!

Still, a short waterline and small main - they weren't the fastest. If anybody is looking for a safe, livable pocket cruiser for about $10K, these can't be beat.
http://www.navi-sell.com/DUFOUR 27.JPG


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

A boat with "almost 6 feet of headroom" is a decent liveaboard??? Is this for Little People Big World Goes to Sea????


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

T34C said:


> A boat with "almost 6 feet of headroom" is a decent liveaboard??? Is this for Little People Big World Goes to Sea????


I'm only 5' 4" so 6' would be plenty in my book...


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I'm only 5' 4" so 6' would be plenty in my book...


Ahhh...yes yes yes...we know......


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I would hazard a guess that 98% of one's time on a boat is spent not standing up. How that time is spent is probably not a topic for a family thread.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> I would hazard a guess that 98% of one's time on a boat is spent not standing up. How that time is spent is probably not a topic for a family thread.


Unfortunatly less than 6ft headroom could make the other 2% hell. (At least for the non-elfin among us!)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dammit T34C... it's vertically challenged if you must say something... I'm built more like a dwarf—very stout—than an elf... which in most mythologies are fairly tall and slender critters....


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

SD- Do you hire out for St. Patricks Day parties??? Do I get any kind of discount if I book now for next year???


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

T34C said:


> SD- Do you hire out for St. Patricks Day parties??? Do I get any kind of discount if I book now for next year???


Yes, and no... and you can't afford me...


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Dufour 27*

True the Dufour 27 may not measure up to today's advances in speed and I believe it was said "As a cruiser they lack ventilation, storage, and tankage even for a boat of this size." Well with a few modifications like: those things called VENTS (who hadn't added one or two in any boat, as if our sailboats are known for there breeziness down below). STORAGE? Look folks,, the smaller cruisers where never known for there spaciousness anyway but though the Dufour 27 should have had an aft quarter birth (which by the way is easily converted) the cockpit storage is huge. I could put a birth behind the helm aft hatch and had as much storage on Port and Starboard cockpit as did my 30' S2 9A. Also true is the fact the older boats are not as fast or as light as the newer comparable size boats of today,, but at times when the winds and waves pick up, the idea of the newer thinner, and lighter hulls that have just enough glass below me to win a race,,,,,,,,, well it seems to be a little unsettling. We have to admit that the boats in the 70's where heavy tanks, with thicker hulls comparatively with today's boats, but in a storm who in there right mind wouldn't rather be in a 5500 lbs+ displacement boat over a 4000 lbs displacement boat, unless you like the thrill of dying. I worked on many boats before and have repaired hulls of the newer boats because of waves pounding the forward hulls, which you just won't find in older boats like the Dufour 27. As for maneuvering fin keels are known for quick response turning, maybe he's used to full keel boats, for some turn like battleships.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Dufour 27 Web Site*

Hello all,

I just published a web site highlighting our Dufour 27. The site provides some interesting comparative design measurements, pictures before and after I made improvements, a brief snap shot of Dufour Yachts in 1974 along with some pictures from the original Dufour 27 sales brochure. I welcome your comments and suggestion for other information I might include.

Please visit at web dot mac dot com forward slash donnapaden

Richard Paden


----------

