# Cabin Heaters



## Bump (Aug 23, 2004)

I am considering moving up in size to a 32-34 foot boat and with the thought of living aboard year round in the Northeast. I would like some input on cabin heaters. My question is about bulkhead mounted diesel heaters vs. more costly forced hot air systems. Are the bulkhead mounted units a sufficient source of heat in this size boat. There is considerable differance in cost but I don't want to freeze my tail off either. Thanks


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi Bump,

We have alot of good info and links in this thread: Cabin Heaters

The answer is partly dependent on your situation and preferences. For instance, when you say "live-aboard", if by that you mean you will be mostly stationary at a dock with electricity (as opposed to out cruising), you have options that a long distance cruiser might not have. You can supplement by using shore-power for electric heat, for example.

So I would say, look at those prior discussions, but consider them in the context of your specific situation.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

Here is a link to the solution we chose on our Irwin Citation 34

Our Fireplace

Rik


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

We went with this one, have not installed it yet but it's very high quality and we believe it's going to work very well:

The Davey Hotpot Stove


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We've had the Dickinson Propane fireplace on our last two boats..quite like it.

I think overall the Espars and other forced airs are a nicer, more effective heat but with double the cost and hassle of installation, and overall less reliability esp. if used infrequently.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The Dickinson propane furnaces are great for use on weekends when cruising. But for continuous use they will mean filling propane tanks quite often. The smallest uses 20 lbs of propane in 100 hours on high, 140 hours on low. The next size lasts 78 hours on high and 110 hours on low. If you will have a good supply of diesel that might be a better bet. 
Of course, nothing beats the ease of use an electric heater has, either portable or built-in with a thermostat if the dock power is sufficient. I just installed an electric flush mount 1000 watt heater and thermostat on a boat and the cost was about $165 complete with thermostat. They are about 7" x 14" and will use about 3" of depth in a settee front.


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## BluemanSailor (Apr 28, 2009)

On mu old boat a Bristol 32 I installed the Webasto (similiar to Espar) forced air heater. Was a live aboard for 2 years in Philly and it worked GREAT! Had it directly connected to my fuel tank and stayed warm all winter. Not hard to install as long as you have the room in your engine room.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

To be truly comfortable you need to heat the air of the space. You also need to heat critical areas where unwinterized items may freeze like waterlines, etc. A bulkhead mounted heater puts out a lot of radiant heat and is great for extending your season. It will be warmer near the heater and colder away from it.

Our boat came with 2 reverse cycle AC/heaters in 2 zones. That works great in the summer and fall when at dockside but it requires 110v and a separate 30a circuit. I wanted something that could be used at the dock or while sailing.

A hydronic system, I believe, is the best solution for living aboard in the NE. I installed a Hurricane H2(35,000 btu) heater last fall with 3 zones and 4 cabin fan units. The great thing about a hydronic system is that it can also provide on demand hot water and engine pre-heating. The hoses that run through the boat also provide heat and drying to compartments. It runs off of our existing diesel tanks(210 gallons). Our heating bill this year will be about $1,200. It is a 12v system so it can be used on the hook. It can also run off one of my fuel tanks while the engine draws from the other.

Here is an article I wrote on the installation of our system. We are completely comfortable even when nighttime temps go below zero.

Diesel Hydronic Heater Installation


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I agree with using an electric heater if you're at a marina with shorepower. Safer, cheaper and less maintenace and mess. However you may be interested in current March/April "Good Old Boat" magazine article "High End Heat on a Budget". The author describes putting in a forced air diesel heater that he bought at a marne consignment store. Pretty well written.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

chrisncate said:


> We went with this one, have not installed it yet but it's very high quality and we believe it's going to work very well:
> 
> The Davey Hotpot Stove


Well, we went down today to fit up the Davey Hot pot we bought, and it won't work for our application. Once again the Alberg 30 and it's small salon thwart our plans. I thought I could mount it on the port foward bulkhead, but I can't (without losing too much room).

So I have a new Davey for sale, never used if you, or anyone else, is interested. It's a pretty awesome little heater, it really sucks that it wont work for us. Pm me if interested in a solid fuel heater.


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## patrickstickler (Dec 2, 2008)

I can only rave about forced air heating. I had a Wallas forced air paraffin heater on my previous boat and a Safire forced air diesel heater on my current boat and they are great. Excellent circulation and even temps throughout boat and a closed system, taking combustion air from outside and venting exhaust outside (ie. safe).

I'd go with either a Wallas or Safire for the silence. Other brands tend to be quite noisy when running.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

chrisncate said:


> Well, we went down today to fit up the Davey Hot pot we bought, and it won't work for our application. Once again the Alberg 30 and it's small salon thwart our plans. I thought I could mount it on the port foward bulkhead, but I can't (without losing too much room).
> 
> So I have a new Davey for sale, never used if you, or anyone else, is interested. It's a pretty awesome little heater, it really sucks that it wont work for us. Pm me if interested in a solid fuel heater.


Chrisncate,

Like others before you, you just discovered one of the big complications of installing these: That is, when going down to the boat to take measurements, folks discover inadequate clearances or height for their preferred unit.

I will just comment as I did in the other threads, that the clearance/height issue is where the propane heaters have a big advantage -- especially on smaller boats.

In the case of the Dickinson Newport propane unit that we use, it is very compact and only requires 3" diameter x 24" flue length. Compare that to the diesel version, which requires a 5" diameter x 48" flue length. Generally speaking, solid fuel (wood) heaters require a similar or larger flue than the diesels do.

So, finding a suitable location for a diesel or solid fuel bulkhead style heater on a small boat can be very challenging. In our case, it would not work, and yet the propane unit fit quite nicely.


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## patrickstickler (Dec 2, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Chrisncate,
> 
> Like others before you, you just discovered one of the big complications of installing these: That is, when going down to the boat to take measurements, folks discover inadequate clearances or height for their preferred unit.
> 
> ...


This highlights another benefit of a forced air heater which has a separate air intake port, in that they can be installed inside a locker or in the engine bay, etc. and the exhaust port is usually run out the side of the boat rather than the top of the deck. So one usually has alot more options where to install it, and usually it doesn't intrude on the saloon in any way.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

patrickstickler said:


> This highlights another benefit of a forced air heater which has a separate air intake port, in that they can be installed inside a locker or in the engine bay, etc. and the exhaust port is usually run out the side of the boat rather than the top of the deck. So one usually has alot more options where to install it, and usually it doesn't intrude on the saloon in any way.


Hi Patrick,

No doubt those are real benefits. I have experienced the pleasure of forced hot air and would not be without it for high latitude sailing or long term live-aboard cruising in cooler climates. They are excellent systems -- in my opinion the best form of heat that can be had on a sailboat.

The primary argument against them is cost and complexity of installation. When I priced the recommended Espar/Webasto sytems, they ran into the many many thousands of dollars. And the installation process involved routing ductwork throughout the boat -- which can be difficult, costly, and time consuming at best, and in some cases simply not possible.

In our case, we had only moderate heating requirements for weekending and vacationing during the cooler shoulder seasons (early spring/late fall). So investing in a forced hot air system was overkill and over budget. With our propane system, we yielded more than adequate heating capacity for our needs at a price well <$1K, and I was able to install the entire contraption in a few hours one afternoon.

Not the solution for everybody, by any means, but the one that worked best for us. Stay warm!


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## patrickstickler (Dec 2, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Hi Patrick,
> 
> No doubt those are real benefits. I have experienced the pleasure of forced hot air and would not be without it for high latitude sailing or long term live-aboard cruising in cooler climates. They are excellent systems -- in my opinion the best form of heat that can be had on a sailboat.
> 
> ...


Those are good points. The cost and complexity of the solution needs to be relative to the need. Of course, being in Finland, heating is something to take rather seriously, and the expense of the forced air heating system is worth it, since it extends the overly-short season quite a bit. I also installed both systems myself, and agree, if I had to pay someone else to do it, it would have been prohibitively expensive.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

JohnRPollard said:


> Chrisncate,
> 
> Like others before you, you just discovered one of the big complications of installing these: That is, when going down to the boat to take measurements, folks discover inadequate clearances or height for their preferred unit.
> 
> ...


Well, to be fair the reason I cannot spare the starboard bulkhead (where heaters are typically mounted in Alberg 30's) and needed to try the port side bulkhead is that that is where our pet bird lives, on the starboard side. Had we not needed this space for our bird, the heater would fit perfectly right there and work like a charm. The starboard bulkhead is farther forward than the port bulkhead.

We just happen to have a bird who has been with us for over a decade and will probably be with us for another two decades. He's a valued family member, and that's his spot.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Another vote for Dickinson, (yes we have talked about this before).
One more thing to add, the Dickinson bulkhead mounted heater is also know as a fireplace and as such the dancing viewable flame adds a bit of ambiance to the saloon on a cold chilly evening or morning.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Nice install, tjk! I agree about the ambiance.. it's a real nice touch. My only beef with the thing is the noisy fan.

Here's another:


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## joma (Aug 11, 2011)

chrisncate said:


> Well, we went down today to fit up the Davey Hot pot we bought, and it won't work for our application. Once again the Alberg 30 and it's small salon thwart our plans. I thought I could mount it on the port foward bulkhead, but I can't (without losing too much room).
> 
> So I have a new Davey for sale, never used if you, or anyone else, is interested. It's a pretty awesome little heater, it really sucks that it wont work for us. Pm me if interested in a solid fuel heater.


Is the Davey still for sale, please contact me!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Seeing as how the thread has been bumped .....

Back in old days I yearned for a solid fuel heater. Then I wondered where on earth one would keep the wood or coal on a 28'er.

Had we kept Raven (34') as our long term boat I reckon a diesel Newport would have been the go.

The new girl came with an Eberspacher diesel with outlets in all cabins. (including the shower ffs. Talk about overkill. ) 

I've always had reservations about the forced air diesel heaters. Part cost, part complicated installation but two points. One, as JRP noted the Newports have a fan and it is noisy. Conversely while the Eberspacher is fan forced the fan itself is in the cockpit locker and so acceptably quiet in the cabin. Secondly, a bulkhead mount takes up valuable space which I'd rather use for bookshelves. The Eber is all in the cockpit locker tucked up out of the way and is far less intrusive as far as taking up locker space than I had imagined.

For mine, anything that relies on mains power is an irrelevency.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Eberspacher and Webasto furnaces are noisy, if not on the boat because of location certainly off within earshot of the exhaust. They were originally designed for trucks where the noise is hardly noticed.

Wallas diesel (and kerosene/paraffin as well) furnaces are designed and built for marine use from the beginning and are incredibly quiet in operation. Some install a Wallas diesel heater in the main cabin behind a settee back to keep the runs shorter they are so quiet. Their exhaust stays cooler as well due to their design. They offer exhaust deck fittings that can be closed when not in use and become waterproof.

Designed and made in Finland where they know all about cold.
http://www.wallas.ca/www.wallas.ca/Wallas_Canada_Marine_Heaters.html


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> Eberspacher and Webasto furnaces are noisy, if not on the boat because of location certainly off within earshot of the exhaust. They were originally designed for trucks where the noise is hardly noticed.
> 
> Wallas diesel (and kerosene/paraffin as well) furnaces are designed and built for marine use from the beginning and are incredibly quiet in operation. Some install a Wallas diesel heater in the main cabin behind a settee back to keep the runs shorter they are so quiet. Their exhaust stays cooler as well due to their design. They offer exhaust deck fittings that can be closed when not in use and become waterproof.
> 
> ...


I had a Wallas heater on my C36. It was wholly inadequate to heat the boat. At best, it would take the chill off on a winter's day. (That is a PNW winter which are not nearly as cold as NE winters). On the C400 I had a Webasto forced air installed. It provides very quick heating of the entire boat. The exhaust noise is greater than the Wallas, but perfectly acceptable IMO. If I was going to live aboard, I would have opted for a hydronic system, but for our primarily weekend use in the colder months, the forced air is perfect.

Dave


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> Eberspacher and Webasto furnaces are noisy, if not on the boat because of location certainly off within earshot of the exhaust. They were originally designed for trucks where the noise is hardly noticed.
> 
> Wallas diesel (and kerosene/paraffin as well) furnaces are designed and built for marine use from the beginning and are incredibly quiet in operation. Some install a Wallas diesel heater in the main cabin behind a settee back to keep the runs shorter they are so quiet. Their exhaust stays cooler as well due to their design. They offer exhaust deck fittings that can be closed when not in use and become waterproof.
> 
> ...


Brian,
I don't know if ours is somehow different to those you have experienced but it is not noisy, either inside the boat or out. 
Cheers


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

dhays

Which model of Wallas did you have?

tdw

The ones I have heard have a roaring exhaust.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

tdw said:


> I don't know if ours is somehow different to those you have experienced but it is not noisy, either inside the boat or out.


Agreed. I have had both Webasto and Espar forced-air heaters aboard and never found the noise an issue. The heater is barely noticeable as opposed to A/C that can be quite noisy.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Brian,
I'm thinking that as Eberspacher do both Marine and Auto/RV heaters that maybe you have heard Auto adapted to marine use. I'm thinking that perhaps they may have greater output or perhaps not as expensive as the full marine units ???. Of course they could also be very badly installed. Your post got me thinking, so over the weekend I gave our Eber a good listening to and no, it is not noisy. Its exhaust is quite small and I most certainly could not hear a thing when on deck. Yes, if I open the cockpit locker where the thing lives I can hear it but once the locker is closed the only noise is from the fan, which is e.g. quieter that your average 12v fan seen in many cabins. Even quiet background music drowns out any noise and there is no way it could disturb anyone trying to get to sleep. One last point ... the Womboat is very well insulated .... this could of course also help.
Cheers
Andrew


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