# Paininting non-skid...



## marinesniper (Aug 2, 2006)

Do I really need to put a coat of epoxy primer before painting my molded non-skied deck...? I am mean cannot I just sand the non-skid them put a coat of 2 part-poly down, followed by some sand (traction), then another 2-part poly coat...? 

thanks...


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

I'd hate to spend the time it would take to sand and paint the deck with two coats and then find out that you needed the primer when the expensive 2-part poly started to lift three weeks later. I put down primer first on our deck, with three coats of nonskid and it's lasted about five years. I'm planning to spot-cover worn spots this coming spring. The primer does nice things like filling in crazing and filling dings. The 2-part poly not only doesn't do that, it telegraphs any minor imperfection in the surface. Also, please don't forget to add flattening agent to keep the reflection down. The one thing I'd do differently is to add the maximum amount of nonskid granules suggested into the paint. It sounds like you plan to add nonskid sand using the salt-shaker method, between coats. This may not work well because 2-part poly is so thin that the relatively large grains of sand won't have much to hold them down, and the next coat may just knock them loose. 2-part poly also hardens up so fast that the sand may just bounce off by the time you get to spreading it. I was hard-pressed to even tip the paint with a brush, it hardened up so quickly.


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## marinesniper (Aug 2, 2006)

How about I shake the sand ontop of the epoxy primer...? would this work...ok...

thanks Paul for you info, I live in MIami and right now it is not so hot thank goodness...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I would suggest looking into Grip-tex, the rubber non skid additive that is meant for use with Awl-grip rather than sand. In my experience sand is difficult to apply evenly and when the paint inevitably wears away the sand is visible, leaving a "dirty looking" deck.

This stuff is available in several "grits", we used a 50/50 mixture of medium and fine. Though not the best nonskid of all time (esp right after painting) it wore into a decent finish that looked great for its uniformity. We did spray it with an inexpensive LPHV gun (the type with a blower drive rather than compressed air- made by Fuji) and a large bore nozzle. A couple of ball bearings in the paintcan helped to stir things up and keep the spray uniform.

We did use the Awlgrip primer first, though, PaulK is right about the concern that after all that effort the new coating separates because of a shortcut.

Whatever grip you add to the primer will be degraded when you paint over it, as the paint will make things less "non-skid".


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

When i painted my non-skid I used the 1 part Interlux paint that contains microbeads for the non-skid...I found it a cheaper solution as I tried the two part and it ended up being a total mess....

I painted 2 layers of it and looks pretty solid...areas like the cockpit - it did rub some off with high traffic, but never got slippery...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

artbyjody said:


> When i painted my non-skid I used the 1 part Interlux paint that contains microbeads for the non-skid...I found it a cheaper solution as I tried the two part and it ended up being a total mess....
> 
> I painted 2 layers of it and looks pretty solid...areas like the cockpit - it did rub some off with high traffic, but never got slippery...


yeah, I should have mentioned that we removed some treadmaster from the cockpit sole of our current boat, and applied the stuff that Jody mentioned... it has stood up well and is indeed an excellent non skid surface.

Waaaaay less expensive than any of the two parts, very thick, rolls out well (probably doesn't cover a lot of area/can)... but at $40 per quart it's definitely an option.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Yes*

Yes you should prime!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You really should prime, but I would question whether a 2-part LPU is the way you want to go for the non-skid areas.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm about to do the same project, and want to get the recipe straight: prime with Interlux 2000, and then paint with one-part Interlux, non-skid areas with one-part Interlux laced with Grip-tex?


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Interlux Interdeck is what I was planning to use for mine deck when spring finally comes along. And I definately plan to use primer.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I am painting my non skid areas this spring myself. I am going to try that Kiwi product that has been talked about in a few threads on sailnet.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> I am painting my non skid areas this spring myself. I am going to try that Kiwi product that has been talked about in a few threads on sailnet.


The West Marine here on HHI doesn't carry it, and I haven't been able to find it anywhere else. Anybody have a lead on it?


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sailhog, here is the link I have:

http://www.pachena.com/KiwiGrip_Great.asp


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would definitely use the additive in the primer vice the 1 or 2 part LPU. That way it is fully encapsulated by the LPU and you will lose less of it. The primer "should" also remain tacky a bit longer so you can sprinkle the non-skid. ANyone know if I can tint my white 2 part water based LPU? I bought the white, but now I want to tint it a bit.


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

We redid our non skid last year and did not use primer on the advice of a local yard. So far we are pleased with the job. The last time the job was done (before us so 6+ years) they primed and the paint was coming up in sheets. We removed it all, sanded the gelcoat with 60 grit, put down a coat of Awlgrip and covered it with sand of a color and grit to our liking from a buillding supply place. We got a very uniform covering of sand by covering the deck 1/8"+ deep with sand and then blowing it off once the paint kicked. It's messy but sand is cheap and the coverage was uniform. 2 more coats in our chosen final color and we've been very happy. I'll let you know if I come to regret not priming and absent any other advice would probably have primed myself.

Fingers crossed.

Ike


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

I have read Don Casey's book, and other advice here, to use sand (or other particles) etc, to redo the non-skid. I can definitely see this method being worthwhile, when you sand down the whole deck, tape off the non'skid areas, paint the rest, then paint the non-skid with the sand, etc.

However, my non-skid pattern (and gelcoat) is mostly in great shape, except for some crazing, which I am considering a V-groove scraping / fill with epoxy fix, before painting. This would leave most of my non-skid only requiring abrasion, to get the primer and paint to skip, while the v-groove repaired areas would ruin the non-skid patterns in places. I do NOT want to sand all of my non-skid areas down flat, and then have to use sand everywhere, as most of it is in great shape. However, if I apply sand to the repaired areas, the snad pattern will not match the original pattern at all!

I am painting the whole deck, cabin, as there is some crazing on the slippery areas as well!

Advice??


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Freesail,
Thanks for the link, Cap'n...


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## Slooptattoo (Aug 4, 2007)

Noreaster,
In order to keep your nonskid moulded pattern you would have to put in a minimal amount of silica sand added to your paint. You have to do several test patches to determine the correct ratio of sand to paint. It will give you traction without losing the factory checkering. I have found that a little sand goes a long way, but be careful to keep the ratio consistent or it will give you different looking and feeling finishes. If you do not use at least a minimal amount of silica sand your deck will be as slick as ice and very dangerous, especially if you use a two part epoxy paint. I was able to keep my pattern that was moulded into the deck and in areas of damage you can search out different suppliers for a surface mould to repair the areas that are worn down, if any. I sent for a sample of the kiwi non skid and am very impressed with it. If I use it when I redo my deck this year I will lose the checkered factory pattern, but the pattern that is applied with the special kiwi rollers I find to be a very pleasing appearence. Whichever way you go is a matter of personal prefference. Good luck in your project. (The distributor of the kiwi product whose website was previously posted is very helpful and will send you a sample of the texture you can obtain)


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

That Kiwi stuff looks fantastic.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sailhog, your welcome.


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## capn_dave (Feb 17, 2000)

*Update on the Kiwi Grip*

Ahoy Mates,

I did the post with pic's on the various nonskids. I talked with the guy that used the Kiwi Grip and he said is is holding up better than the Awlgrip. Again he said it was by far the easiest of any product to apply. 
I bought a gallon to do my nonskid, I haven't started the job, it's been to cold here in NE Florida.
If and when I giter done I will post more pictures of the Kiwi Stuff.

Fair Winds

Cap'n Dave


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

Slooptattoo - Thanks for the detailed advice. I hope to just "get away with" touching up the crazing areas, with sand, once they are epoxied, as you suggested. Of course I will be painting the whole deck as well. I will see how extensive the repairs are - (how much non-stick pattern I lose), once I begin the repairs!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

BTW when you do the masking - 3M now has rounded tape peel offs that are almost perfect for the rounding out of the masking... I got mine from Home Depot and saves a lot of effort of trying to bend the roll tape to fit corners...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

artbyjody said:


> When i painted my non-skid I used the 1 part Interlux paint that contains microbeads for the non-skid...I found it a cheaper solution as I tried the two part and it ended up being a total mess....
> 
> I painted 2 layers of it and looks pretty solid...areas like the cockpit - it did rub some off with high traffic, but never got slippery...


I used INTERLUX also last month, VERY EASY roll-on..........
bought the "white" and added color to make it more tan like the original non-skid... their GREY was like "battleship gray" and the tan was too "orangey"...
so we mixed up our own color......

Very happy with the results!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

A lot of this is very dependent on the age of the boat, and the condition of the glass work. Your boat is about the age of my boat and even though my decks were painted in the mid-1990's I can only assume that the gelcoat on your decks is in similar condition to mine (and to the other boats of that age that I have seen lately). I have also looked at a number of boats on which the paint jobs failed.

I am getting ready to redo my decks and so have been researching this pretty extensively talking to a number of boat yards, paint companies and to the manufacturers of WEST System and MAS epoxy. 

Here what I found, if you talk to the paint manufacturers, many of their deck paints are designed to go on without primer, if you follow thier preparation procedures. When I discussed this with a paint manufacturers at the Annapolis Boat Show that is how the discussion began. I mentioned all of the failed pain jobs that I had seen on older boats and they quickly backtracked stating that you did not need primer on newer boats with relatively fresh gelcoat but went on to say that neither primer or paint will bridge the open pores or hairline cracks found on older boats. They suggested a more comprehensive approach which started with sealing the pores with a low viscosity, slow setting epoxy which then requires a primer for proper adhesion. 

If your decks are anything like the decks that I have looked at lately, if you get out a magnifying glass and look closely at your decks you will see that there is a series of open pores and nearly microscopic hair line cracks. if that is what you find then I suggest that you contact MAS epoxy. They sent me a detailed step by step aprpoach that they recommended. The reason that I suggest MAS is that their epoxies do not produce an Amine blush making preparation for the primer much easier on an irregular surface like a non-skid deck. 

The boats that I saw that did not receive an epoxy sealer coat, had areas that spider cracked and even peeled within a few years. 

Now I must say that in talking to boat owners who had their decks painted in the past few years, I saw two very different attitudes about painting decks. For some owners painting the decks was a a matter of routine maintenance being done quick and dirty every few years. They often did the work themself and the often were satisfied with a roll and tip paint job. For that crowd the pores and cracking was no big deal. When the decks started looking rough they simply did them again. 

Then there are owners who are looking for a job that looked as good and will last as long as their original gelcoat. More often then not, they had a yard do the work. For that group the cost were much higher and careful prep work was far more easily justified.

Bit then again, of course the real question is whether or not to remove all of the hardware. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

*KiwiGrip is really great*










I painted my decks this fall using KiwiGrip for the non-skid areas and Pettit EasyPoxy for the "skid" areas. I primed the entire deck with Pettit's High-Build primer. You can read about the primer transformation here: http://sailing.thorpeallen.net/Greyhawk/2007-09/index.html

and about the final deck painting here: http://sailing.thorpeallen.net/Greyhawk/2007-10/index.html

You don't necessarily need to use primer before putting down the KiwiGrip, it will go directly over existing gel-coat or paint just fine, but I had made a lot of repairs to my deck so the primer was appropriate.

The KiwiGrip went on very easily, and so far I am very happy with the results. Very grippy -- I like it! It remains to be seen how well it holds up in use, but so far I would definitely recommend it to anyone lookng for a good non-skid surface for their decks. My dealings with the North American distributor were also very positive. See Anti-skid Boat Decks from Pachena LLC - KiwiGrip anti-slip deck coating

I should note that the KiwiGrip is non-toxic and contains no volatile solvents, so a respirator is not required, although good ventilation is always important.

Regards,

Tim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Northeaster-

You could always opt to re-gelcoat instead of paint, if the boat is in such good shape. You could probably find Gibco flex molds to match your existing non-skid and re-build up the damaged non-skid areas with their flexible molds.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

Jeff_H said:


> Bit then again, of course the real question is whether or not to remove all of the hardware.


Indeed!

My boat's decks had been painted previously, but they did not remove any of the hardware. I had major repairs to do, and it all needed re-bedding anyway, so I stripped it ALL off before painting. But that really makes it a major project.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

I painted my deck last spring and it came out fantastic. I really could not be any happier with the result.

As with any paint job, it's all in the prep. I used all Interlux products, even the solvents. I didn't want to tempt fate with some very expensive paint. If you have the option of spraying the paint, I would highly recommend it. You'll have some extra precautions that are an absolute must but I think worth it.

Prep: 
Remove all hardware. Easier to remove it than to remove cured paint later. Besides, you'll get a better paint job for it. Scrub the entire deck with Solvent Wash 202. You'll be amazed at the amount of crap this stuff will pull out of the deck. Work in sections, scrub with 202 and bronze wool (NOT STEEL WOOL) then wipe down with a paper towel. When finished, start over and do it again. WEAR A RESPIRATOR (not a dust mask either) this stuff will kill you. Do not get 202 on your windows.

Grind out and fill any cracks or crazing, unwanted screw holes etc. Use an epoxy resin / filler made for this purpose. Sand smooth with a sanding block wherever possible. Using your hand for sanding leaves finger shaped grooves that will show up later. Wipe down repaired areas with 202.

Tape off the rub rail, mask the topsides with plastic, tape off any hardware that you could not remove for any reason. Tape is incredibly important. Perfection and other 2 part paints go on water thin and will crawl under Home Depot grade tapes. Even if you buy 3M tape, it's not the same adhesive at the hardware store as it is at the auto paint store. And yes, tape at the auto paint store is expensive, like 12 or 13 bucks a roll, and worth every penny. Make sure you press the edges down tight, preferably with a hard rubber roller.

Primer:
I went to a medical supplier to buy some shoe covers. They worked great for keeping dirt foot prints from finding thier way to the deck. If you are spraying 2 part paint, buy a new respirator. Even if you already have one, as they get old the rubber gets stiff and may not seal properly. A new respirator is about 40 bucks, and your life is worth more than that. I used an HVLP gun to spray the paint, bought at Cummins tools for $29. When I sprayed the last coat, I just tossed it in the trash.

Use the right primer. If painting with a 2 part paint, use the primer made specifically for that paint. 

If rolling the primer, use the paint makers instructions for mixing and thinning. If spraying, you'll have to thin the paint to get a proper spray pattern. Apply a second coat of primer as soon as the first is not tacky. If the paint doesn't cure, you won't have to sand between coats.

Paint:
Mix up the paint for the areas of the deck that are not textured. Be sure to add flattening agent to the paint to keep the glare down. No need to tape off anything, just paint. You don't need to paint the non skid areas, but you don't have to worry about it if you do. 2 coats just like the primer.

More tape:
This is the fun part. I used 1/4 inch 3m blue striping tape to tape around the non skid areas. It's a bit of a trick to stretch the tape around the corners to get a smooth radius, but it's easy to get the hang of. Be careful not to stretch the tape too much as it will pull away later when you don't want it to. The tape should not be under tension. Using good quality masking tape, back tape all of the areas you don't want non skid on. Plan on 15 to 20 hours to get the non skid taped off and ready to paint. Good knee pads are your friend. Maybe some aleeve for you back.

Paint:
I used Interlux Intergrip non skid addative for my deck. Sand would have been cheaper to be sure, but sand doesn't stay suspended in the paint nor would it pass through my paint gun reliably.

I mixed the paint and flattening agent just like paint sprayed earlier, then I mixed in the Intergrip. I exceeded the recommended dosage. 6 heaping plastic spoonfuls per quart of mixed paint rings a bell, but I can't be sure. Just be sure to count spoonfuls so that subsequent mixes are the same. Let the mix stand for 20 minutes or so and mix again. If you don't let the intergrip soak, it won't stay suspended properly. Spray 2 coats as before.

As soon as the paint is tack free, pull the tape. Don't wait too long or the tape will be hard to remove. Bolt on hardware and enjoy your new paint.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*Just remember if you're spraying a two-part LPU paint, you're spraying cyanide-based chemicals... and you best have the proper respiratory protection gear or you could end up DEAD.*


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

sailingdog said:


> *Just remember if you're spraying a two-part LPU paint, you're spraying cyanide-based chemicals... and you best have the proper respiratory protection gear or you could end up DEAD.*


Absolutely. You don't need a pressurized hood, but if you have one available that would be great. Just make sure your mask fits properly and has new cartridges. Make sure the cartridges are compatible with the paint being used. If you're not sure, call the paint co.

If your mask has a leak anywhere around the skirt (I have a big beak and it's a problem) you'll feel it in your lungs almost immediately. STOP - and fix the problem. If you have to walk away from a partially painted boat, oh well. Sanding and starting over beats long term health problems hands down.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Also note - some boatyards will not allow you to do it yourself unless you do it in one of their set-ups and have some kind of certification (or hire one of their guys as a consultant)....follow-up on US Pirates suggestion...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, if you're planning on spraying a two-part LPU, you'd better have an enclosed facility to do it in... since you're be responsible for any problems the spraying causes to people nearby. Spraying a isocyanate-based paint without a enclosed building is a really bad idea.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have worked in the "painting" end of manufacturing for 32 years so I have a little experience.
2K paints(isocyanate) are nasty things.
I am not going to make a "blanket recomendation" for your protection needs because a lot of people will ignore it any way. Just sufice it to say this is nasty stuff and there are long term effects from exposure and it CAN KILL you right away.
Ask the supplier for a MSDS ( material safety data sheet ) before you purchase the product. You can also usually find it on on a manufacturers web site. READ IT CAREFULLY!!!!!!!!! Decide if you really want to mess with it. Follow the PPE recomendations to the letter. If they say Supplied Air Respirator or Supplied Air Hood it is for a reason. This is one of the few times the Government is your friend. The manufacturer is required to provide this info to you. 10 minutes of reading is worth it.

2K paints are wonderfull things but the finished product is hard as a rock and almost impossible to sand. So unless you are a really good sprayer or have a lot of time on your hands for sanding, find someone who knows what they are doing.

With any painting that requires a respirator the "large beak" is a fit problem. So is any facial hair. To get a proper fit you need to shave it clean. At the least you will probably scare the neighbors and you wife will want to know who you are if she is used to seeing the mustache and beard.

Enough preaching. Sorry Rev.Mike. Just want everyone to be safe.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

US27 great post on painting . thats the ticket , its all in the preparation . If people pay attention to your instructions then we will see a great improvement in DIY boat painting

All the best
Paul


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

You need more then just a filter, you need a respirator, Otherwise you will glue your lungs together when spraying 2 part lpu.
pigslo


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

If you do enough prep work, even a DIY paint job can come out pretty nice.


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