# Newbe with no experience buys big boat



## davidpm

I just finished this book.
Breaking Seas: An overweight, middle-aged computer nerd buys his first boat, quits his job, and sails off to adventure: Glenn Damato: 9780985816209: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51VUNGcnmUL

What a fun read. Every couple of months someone asks if they can buy a boat with no experience and do some serious cruising. Not something I would do but everyone is different.

This guy did it and really barred his soul about what worked and what didn't work. I'm going to try to get him to join this forum so you animals can tear him up as is your custom.

For a short fat guy he is tough as nails and I'm sure can take it.
He found himself on a lee shore with a busted impeller and a full keel boat that would not point. 
He saved the boat, with a clever hack, how did he do it.


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## steve77

davidpm said:


> I just finished this book.
> Breaking Seas: An overweight, middle-aged computer nerd buys his first boat, quits his job, and sails off to adventure: Glenn Damato: 9780985816209: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> What a fun read. Every couple of months someone asks if they can buy a boat with no experience and do some serious cruising. Not something I would do but everyone is different.
> 
> This guy did it and really barred his soul about what worked and what didn't work. I'm going to try to get him to join this forum so you animals can tear him up as is your custom.
> 
> For a short fat guy he is tough as nails and I'm sure can take it.
> He found himself on a lee shore with a busted impeller and a full keel boat that would not point.
> He saved the boat, with a clever hack, how did he do it.


Sea turtles?


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## Silvio

Dolphin harnesses!


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## caberg

These types of books/blogs are a great contrast to some of the... how do you say it.... perspectives? on here. 

Thanks for the recommendation.


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## sailingfool

Sounds like a good read...


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## smackdaddy

caberg said:


> These types of books/blogs are a great contrast to some of the... how do you say it.... perspectives? on here.


That's why I love 'em! Generally speaking, sailing is going to have to get a lot more dangerous and deadly to justify those fear-based perspectives.


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## Silvio

smackdaddy said:


> That's why I love 'em! Generally speaking, sailing is going to have to get a lot more dangerous and deadly to justify those fear-based perspectives.


Can't do it, can't teach yourself to sail. It's just not possible. Also, never leave the dock alone or you ill violate 79 different federal and state boating laws. Oh, never go below while single handing, you will definitely sink your vessel if you do.

Other than that there is no fear-based perspective 'round here.


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## JonEisberg

caberg said:


> These types of books/blogs are a great contrast to some of the... how do you say it.... perspectives? on here.


No doubt, it sounds like an entertaining read...

However, just to keep this guy's endeavor in "perspective"...

His original intention was to sail around the world... Instead, he sailed with the Baja Ha-Ha down to Cabo, hung out around there for a few months, returned to San Diego, and sold the boat...

Just sayin'... (grin)


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## caberg

JonEisberg said:


> No doubt, it sounds like an entertaining read...
> 
> However, just to keep this guy's endeavor in "perspective"...
> 
> His original intention was to sail around the world... Instead, he sailed with the Baja Ha-Ha down to Cabo, hung out around there for a few months, returned to San Diego, and sold the boat...
> 
> Just sayin'... (grin)


Well, he did leave the marina and lived to tell!

I particularly liked reading Bumfuzzle, the folks who did circumnavigate without a shred of prior experience. And the feathers they ruffled on the sailing forums was exceptionally entertaining. Some people just could not reconcile the idea that anyone who was not like them, could actually sail.

(And just for the record, JonEisberg, I'm not saying anything toward you. I've read many insightful, fair and reasoned posts from you.)


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## Silvio

caberg said:


> Well, he did leave the marina and lived to tell!
> 
> I particularly liked reading Bumfuzzle, the folks who did circumnavigate without a shred of prior experience. And the feathers they ruffled on the sailing forums was exceptionally entertaining. Some people just could not reconcile the idea that anyone who was not like them, could actually sail.
> 
> (And just for the record, JonEisberg, I'm not saying anything toward you. I've read many insightful, fair and reasoned posts from you.)


I really enjoyed following the Bumfuzzles as well. What a neat family they are! Their's was one of the first and only blogs I regularly followed when beginning sailing myself.


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## TomMaine

caberg said:


> Well, he did leave the marina and lived to tell!
> 
> I particularly liked reading Bumfuzzle, the folks who did circumnavigate without a shred of prior experience. And the feathers they ruffled on the sailing forums was exceptionally entertaining. Some people just could not reconcile the idea that anyone who was not like them, could actually sail.


I followed the Bums too, and especially enjoyed how they ruffled some of the old salts tailfeathers. 

This book sounds interesting as well, I might look for it. You know the mistakes he's going to make, it's how he deals with them that can be fun to read. I still continue to make plenty of them.


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## glenndamato

Hello everyone - this is Glenn, the author of Breaking Seas.

David let me know via email he had started this message thread on sailnet. Thanks David!

Some readers are perplexed and disappointed that I did not complete the circumnavigation -especially after spending all that time and trouble getting as far as I did!

In view of that, I want to clarify the two big reasons I decided to go back to San Diego. First, I discovered during the periods of heavy weather and rain, Serenity's belowdecks were not even close to watertight. After spending years and dozens of tubes of 5200 to seal everything I could see topsides, I learned that in order to have a prayer at keeping the cabin dry, I would have to have a boatyard remove and re-bed the entire deck - it was the hull-deck joint that needed total rebedding, and more 5200 would not do a thing. As anyone who has ever been in a boatyard knows, that is a HUGE and expensive task, particularly nasty to contemplate less than a year after coming out of an American boatyard! Until that was done, even a RAIN would result in my bunk cushions and other gear below getting soaked. The boat might make a fine weekender in Southern California (where it rarely drizzels between April and October) but not for world cruising - and especially not to the Marquesas, one of the rainiest spots on Earth.

The second reason for cutting the trip short was I did not desire or plan to do it alone. BEST CASE scenario would be to do it with a lover - an attractive female with no ties ashore willing to go the distance. Those who read the book will be able to fill in the details there.

The second best scenario would be to circumnavigate with a trusted friend, either another guy or a woman with whom I shared a platonic, non-sexual, non-romantic relationship. That would have been fine with me . . . but it didn't work out that way. For the details, please read the book.

While ashore, I would have said I was willing to circumnavigate alone, but after the experience of being at sea and anchored off a strange land, the idea had zero appeal to me. Yes, I was lonely. It seemed to me that all the other singlehanders I could see had fallen into alcohol abuse. They were clearly NOT a part of the "standard" cruising community, consisting of families and couples. As detailed in the book, I could not see myself living that lifestyle. I craved mental stimulation, and my old job as a software instructor.

One of the Amazon reviews (the one negative review in the bunch, really) said something like, "He went back to the job he despised," or something like that. But nowhere in the book do I say or hint that I hated my job! I found it quite comfortable in every way, and I did not realize until I left it how much I enjoyed teaching and the regular interaction with my fellow humans, even if in a professional environment. My head ached for new input, and this was in the days before eReaders became common, so I had quickly read out all the books I had with me and craved new stimulation.

In short, it was no longer fun - I saw no reason to make it into an obsession simply because of what people might think. And by the time I got back to San Diego after the stint single handing the Baja Bash, I had gotten EVERYTHING out if the trip I had sought.

Hope that clarifies.

Kind regards,

Glenn


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## wingNwing

As soon as I'm sure I've got a good enough internet connection I'm buying the Kindle edition. Looks good Glenn!


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## chucklesR

Thanks for the pointer David.

Thanks for the book Glenn, it's on my list for Kindle. 
I can certainly understand the not wanting to do it alone aspect. I'm sure I could, but why would I want to?
Guess I'll have to read the book and see what boat has a leaky deck.


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## smackdaddy

Just out of curiosity - what was the boat, Glenn?


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## msmith10

glenndamato said:


> Hello everyone - this is Glenn, the author of Breaking Seas.
> 
> The second reason for cutting the trip short was I did not desire or plan to do it alone. BEST CASE scenario would be to do it with a lover - an attractive female with no ties ashore willing to go the distance. Those who read the book will be able to fill in the details there.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Glenn


Welcome to the forum, and nice post, Glenn. I recommend against posting "Female sailing companion wanted" on this site. That approach has been tried and always invites a slew of commentary. Who knows, though, you may get lucky.


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## OffWeGo

Your book has been on my reading list, looking forward to it.


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## davidpm

Come on guys you can do better than that. Sea Turtles!!!
Where is your imagination. I'm dying to tell you but right now there are 70 people logged in probably over a thousand hours of seamanship experience so I'm expecting more creative solutions.

Visualize this:
Your in the bilge of your boat. The boat is snapping around in serious seas. 
You know you have about 10 minutes before you are on the rocks. 
You see your impeller is shot, broken vanes. 
You are furious with yourself and the store because they sold you 6 impellers that don't fit and you didn't check before you left.
It is unbelievably frustrating. The engine is in perfect condition it just needs water to keep cool enough.

Now captain what do you do????

To be fair I doubt I would have thought of his solution. But he did in the the most extreme conditions.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Just out of curiosity - what was the boat, Glenn?


Looks like SERENITY was a Downeaster 38...


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## Skipper Jer

"It is unbelievably frustrating. The engine is in perfect condition it just needs water to keep cool enough.

Now captain what do you do????

To be fair I doubt I would have thought of his solution. But he did in the the most extreme conditions.
"

Me, I'd hook up the bilge pump to the raw water intake of the engine and open a seacock that would supply water to the bilge pump. Crack the **** (seacock, sorry censor software, didn't mean to offend) open enough to keep up with the engine requirements but not enough to flood the boat.


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## JonEisberg

davidpm said:


> Come on guys you can do better than that. Sea Turtles!!!
> Where is your imagination. I'm dying to tell you but right now there are 70 people logged in probably over a thousand hours of seamanship experience so I'm expecting more creative solutions.
> 
> Visualize this:
> Your in the bilge of your boat. The boat is snapping around in serious seas.
> You know you have about 10 minutes before you are on the rocks.
> You see your impeller is shot, broken vanes.
> You are furious with yourself and the store because they sold you 6 impellers that don't fit and you didn't check before you left.
> It is unbelievably frustrating. The engine is in perfect condition it just needs water to keep cool enough.
> 
> Now captain what do you do????
> 
> To be fair I doubt I would have thought of his solution. But he did in the the most extreme conditions.


Try _sailing_, perhaps? (grin)

Now, I've never sailed a Downeaster 38, though I did run a 45 south many years ago... While she certainly was not a stellar performer under sail, I do believe she would have been capable of clawing off a lee shore in most any conditions that that an engine would have been able to do so...


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## steve77

davidpm said:


> Come on guys you can do better than that. Sea Turtles!!!
> Where is your imagination. I'm dying to tell you but right now there are 70 people logged in probably over a thousand hours of seamanship experience so I'm expecting more creative solutions.
> 
> Visualize this:
> Your in the bilge of your boat. The boat is snapping around in serious seas.
> You know you have about 10 minutes before you are on the rocks.
> You see your impeller is shot, broken vanes.
> You are furious with yourself and the store because they sold you 6 impellers that don't fit and you didn't check before you left.
> It is unbelievably frustrating. The engine is in perfect condition it just needs water to keep cool enough.
> 
> Now captain what do you do????
> 
> To be fair I doubt I would have thought of his solution. But he did in the the most extreme conditions.


This doesn't involve the use of bodily fluids, does it?


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## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Looks like SERENITY was a Downeaster 38...


Cool. Thanks Jon.


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## Silvio

Hi Glenn,
Thanks for checking in with us. Stick around the forum if you can, this is a good group and I'm certain that many of us will be reading your book and would enjoy having you to kick around, I mean talk sailing strategy with.


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## jobberone

Siphon water to flow over a fan blowing over the engine. No fan just put the siphon over the head and/or the exhaust. Best to try that when the engine is not too hot esp if the head is aluminum but whatever it takes to stay off the rocks. Just a SWAG.


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## davidpm

Captainmeme said:


> "It is unbelievably frustrating. The engine is in perfect condition it just needs water to keep cool enough.
> 
> Now captain what do you do????
> 
> To be fair I doubt I would have thought of his solution. But he did in the the most extreme conditions.
> "
> 
> Me, I'd hook up the bilge pump to the raw water intake of the engine and open a seacock that would supply water to the bilge pump. Crack the **** (seacock, sorry censor software, didn't mean to offend) open enough to keep up with the engine requirements but not enough to flood the boat.


Finally a real sailor. 
That is exactly what Glenn did!!
What a great idea especially since it worked for, I'm going on memory, a few weeks.


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## davidpm

Now to grill Glenn.
Are you sure your leaks were hull-deck joint?
I read your book very fast so forgive me if I missed some stuff but did you remove everything from the deck and rebed.
Even some handrails or blocks mounted to the deck can let in a lot of water.

Also 5200 is considered the wrong stuff to use for bedding above the waterline.
You want something that stays soft and is not such a powerful adhesive.
The idea is that that a super adhesive like 5200 will not allow any movement and will actually cause things to crack someplace else and allow water in.
Someone will reference the appropriate thread for your next boat.


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## glenndamato

smackdaddy said:


> Just out of curiosity - what was the boat, Glenn?


Smackdaddy: Serenity was a Downeaster 38, cutter rig, made in Santa Ana CA in 1977. I bought her as an extremely dilapidated vessel - if I had known HOW dilapidated, I would have tried for a lower price!


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## smackdaddy

glenndamato said:


> Smackdaddy: Serenity was a Downeaster 38, cutter rig, made in Santa Ana CA in 1977. I bought her as an extremely dilapidated vessel - if I had known HOW dilapidated, I would have tried for a lower price!


Heh-heh. Isn't that ALWAYS the case!

And don't worry about the grilling you'll get here by the esteemed SN members. There's no way for you to win. Everybody knows everything on a forum - we are always hypothetically perfect in our sage advice while at the dock.

It's just the stuff that happens out there that causes us concern.


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## glenndamato

JonEisberg said:


> Try _sailing_, perhaps? (grin)
> 
> Now, I've never sailed a Downeaster 38, though I did run a 45 south many years ago... While she certainly was not a stellar performer under sail, I do believe she would have been capable of clawing off a lee shore in most any conditions that that an engine would have been able to do so...


Jon: The issue that day was big swells knocking me backwards. The Serenity was full-keel of course but I could not sail close to the wind at all because both the wind and the swells were perpendicular to the coast. If you've tried to close-haul a Downeaster at sea directly against large, steep swells, you know what I'm talking about: the swells rob the boat of forward momentum and actually push you backwards across the bottom. I don't know exactly how far off I was, but I estimate my bow was fully 70-degrees off the wind and I could not make any progress away from the coast. If I came up, I lost rudder control. If I fell off, the wind pushed me toward the coast faster. Maybe someone with a lot of sail trim know-how could have (alone!) configured that boat to claw off, but I couldn't see how to do it. I needed to get the engine back.


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## glenndamato

davidpm said:


> Now to grill Glenn.
> Are you sure your leaks were hull-deck joint?
> I read your book very fast so forgive me if I missed some stuff but did you remove everything from the deck and rebed.
> Even some handrails or blocks mounted to the deck can let in a lot of water.
> 
> Also 5200 is considered the wrong stuff to use for bedding above the waterline.
> You want something that stays soft and is not such a powerful adhesive.
> The idea is that that a super adhesive like 5200 will not allow any movement and will actually cause things to crack someplace else and allow water in.
> Someone will reference the appropriate thread for your next boat.


I'm not sure exactly where the water was coming in, except that it was not from the ten new bronze ports I installed. The deck and cabin top had plastic foam core. My theory was that this foam core was getting saturated somehow, probably from multiple sources, probably chiefly the hull-deck joint. Once the core got saturated, it "rained" inside the boat from hundreds of points! In the end, it seemed like the only thing left to be done was re-bed the joint, which requires pulling the deck off the hull with a crane. That, of course, requires taking the entire boat apart - rig, stays, lifelines, gunwales, EVERYTHING - in Mexico, and I was told it would not be any cheaper than having it done in CA, because the pace would be slower. Even after all that, there would be no guarantee of a dry belowdecks. I would not find out until I had sailed into the equatorial zone the following May on the way to the Marquesas and hit some rain squalls. Note: spraying the boat with a high pressure hose does not provide an adequate test. At sea, the boat is flexing and gaps open up that remain closed when the boat is tied to a dock.


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> I'm not sure exactly where the water was coming in, except that it was not from the ten new bronze ports I installed. The deck and cabin top had plastic foam core. My theory was that this foam core was getting saturated somehow, probably from multiple sources, probably chiefly the hull-deck joint. Once the core got saturated, it "rained" inside the boat from hundreds of points! In the end, it seemed like the only thing left to be done was re-bed the joint, which requires pulling the deck off the hull with a crane.


I've got to tell you that this is very disturbing. 
1. A hull deck joint can cause significant leaks underway but not leak at dock.
2. There is no way to know if it will leak until you sail it hard on the wind in waves.

So is it just a luck of the draw?
I know there are some surveyors on this forum and some guys who have a lot of experience on these things.

Is there anything a potential buyer can do to not buy a boat with this problem unknowingly?


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> Jon: The issue that day was big swells knocking me backwards. The Serenity was full-keel of course but I could not sail close to the wind at all because both the wind and the swells were perpendicular to the coast. If you've tried to close-haul a Downeaster at sea directly against large, steep swells, you know what I'm talking about: the swells rob the boat of forward momentum and actually push you backwards across the bottom. I don't know exactly how far off I was, but I estimate my bow was fully 70-degrees off the wind and I could not make any progress away from the coast. If I came up, I lost rudder control. If I fell off, the wind pushed me toward the coast faster. Maybe someone with a lot of sail trim know-how could have (alone!) configured that boat to claw off, but I couldn't see how to do it. I needed to get the engine back.


I totally can see how that would work.
There is a rule of thumb to calculate how much a current will push you from your heading so can do the math in your head you don't have to chart it.
You take your speed and figure out how many minutes it takes to go one mile.
At three knots for example your go one mile in 20 minutes. You multiply that number times the current and that is how many degrees you will loose.
So if the current is 2 knots and your speed is 3 knots instead of being able to sail 45 degrees to the wind you will be lucky to get 85% off the wind.
But then if the wind is high you have to reef and a reefed sail is not as efficient so you might only be able to manage a beam reach at best and not be able to make progress upwind at all.

Now in the lee shore situation above there is no actual current but depending on the geometry of the bottom it makes sense that there would be effectively an onshore current caused by the wind and waves.

A reefed boat does not point very well, a full keel boat does not point that well. You can't get any speed crashing into waves. Every time you try to point up you hit a wave and the the boat stops.

So yes I totally can visualize the situation.


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## shadowraiths

Thanks for the heads up on this book, david. It has a number of great reviews, and the fact that the guy is a "nerd" (_I prefer, "techno-dweeb," myself_) is a plus. Speaking of, this techno-dweeb picked up the kindle version.

That said, welcome aboard, Glenn.


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## Waterdawg43

welcome to the site Glenn. As a future - inexperienced sailor, I look forward to reading this book and learning from your experience.


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## glenndamato

Thanks guys. I live in Marina del Rey, surounded by thousands of boats, brokers, you name it. I am seriously considering getting back into it. With the economy what it is, the deals are incredible. 

David - I think the solution is to look for a boat that has been sailed off shore in all kinds of conditions sometime over the last few years, and then hunt for signs of leakage. If a boat leaks bad, it's almost impossible for the owner to cover up ALL the telltale signs. There will be heavy mildew under the cushions. The bilge may show watermarks high up. The lockers will look like they've been filled with soggy mess - or are ALL the lockers repainted? Hmmm. My main point is the usual "hose test" will not tell you much. If ports or hatches leak, they probably only need some adjustment or a new gasket.


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## Argyle38

I don't think a leak in the hull/deck joint will cause saturation in the deck core unless there are other breaches into the core. I haven't done that project myself but I've seen and read about other DE owners doing the job (and you don't have to remove the whole deck, just the teak cap-rail). From what I understand, the "top" and "bottom" layers of fiberglass on the deck come together at the edges, completely encapsulating the core. The only place where there is "exposed" core is where the ports and salon window openings were cut. If the boat seemed to be leaking everywhere when it rained, that is likely caused by leaking fittings.

As far as the lee shore description, that sounds like a very tight spot. I hope I never experience that. Sounds like you did a great job in coming up with a way to get the engine going again. If I did find myself in that situation, I think I'd go about it by:

Getting the anchor ready, checking the chart to see if the reef comes up gradually or steep, or if there was a gradual slope anywhere nearby that might successfully grab the anchor if my sailing attempts did not work. 

If the wind is up, which it sounds like it was, I would drop the jib before I reefed the main. Going with main and staysail, you can still point nearly as well as you will with full sail, if you have a decent breeze. And if the jib is old and fat, you will point better without it and it will be windage forward if it's flogging, pushing the bow downwind, toward the reef. 

Remove everything from the deck that will cause excess windage, time permitting. 

It's hard to resist the urge, but you can't chase wind angle with a full keel boat. That's fools gold, if you are going slow, you're not really pointing as high as you think. There is too much leeway if you don't have any speed through the water. I would maybe try to build up some speed off the wind a little, hopefully not giving up too much ground, then pinch up and let the large mass of the boat power through a wave or two, then fall off again and build up speed and repeat. That would be my best guess, boat speed off the wind and momentum, but you have to keep boat speed up or you are going sideways. 

Not trying to second guess, just going thinking about what I would do in that situation, since I have the same boat and have a pretty good feel for how it sails. What you describe is a tough situation in any boat. Love the solution to getting the engine started, very clever. Years of problem solving in front of a screen may have saved your skin that day.


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## glenndamato

Thanks Argyle. You're right, there were lots of ways water could get into the core besides the hull-deck joint. I had already re-beded the teak caprails in late 2001 - after I put the screws back I filled the holes with epoxy & graphite - nice and black, looked salty, but a really, really dumb thing to do. Would have been hell to get those caprails off again.

The water off that part of Cedros was far too deep to anchor. Very rocky too. The only windage item on deck was the dink, and I wasn't about to toss that over! There weren't any jerrycans, bicycles and the usual stuff cruisers put on deck - I expected the Baja Bash to be tough going and be usually close hauled. What was stopping me were the swells - I remember them as high, steep, and close together - each one seemed to push me closer to the rocks, so that even though I was pointed maybe 30 degrees off the shoreline (60 off the wind) the swells (and leeway) were pushing me ashore slightly faster than the sailing was taking me away. It "felt" like I was sailing away from the rocks, but my trusty Garmin told another story - my track was taking me closer.


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## manhattan08

After reading this thread last night, I was motivated to download the book on my ipad. I read through approximately 30 pages last night before I had to put it down (it was getting late). 

The first 30 pages went by incredibly fast as I was completely engrosed in the story. 

Glenn - you will need to go on another adventure and write a second book! If you need some crew, send me a PM!


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## rwlpatrick

Sounds like a great winter book I ordered it from Amazon last night and it will arive tomorrow. Love Amazon and cant wait to read the book.


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## davidpm

Glen, lets talk gear.
In your book you mentioned that you bought a W-H autopilot rather than the typical cheaper model. 
I believe this is the website: Products
Which model did you use. 
How did it perform.
Were their any limitations?
How much power did it take?
Any problems with it.
What spares for it did you bring?


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## blutoyz

+1 for getting this book

Glenn - The fact that you logged on just to chime in is enough for me to pull the trigger on your book. I look forward to reading it.

Bill


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## RonRelyea

wingNwing said:


> As soon as I'm sure I've got a good enough internet connection I'm buying the Kindle edition. Looks good Glenn!


I got the kindle version last night and read about two thirds of the book already ... Great Read!!!!


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## Andrew Burton

Good on you for playing on this forum, Glenn. And thanks. Just ordered your book on kindle and looking forward to digging into it on my next delivery.


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## glenndamato

Thanks Manhattan and Patrick! I'm working on a book for 2013 but it's a novel. I'm also looking at boats. There are some incredible deals, probably because of the economy. At the same time, I know what I'm letting myself in for when a boat is acquired! I may need to finish the next book first. Thanks again for your support!


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## AncientTech

davidpm said:


> I just finished this book.
> Breaking Seas: An overweight, middle-aged computer nerd buys his first boat, quits his job, and sails off to adventure: Glenn Damato: 9780985816209: Amazon.com: Books


....I do not remember giving anyone permission to do an biography


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## glenndamato

David: I got the base model, but with a hydraulic cylinder sized for the Serenity. I'm afraid I don't remember much more. I didn't get spares. The good news is that the unit performed amazingly well. There is a scene in the book where Joyce assured me the AP could not steer in such heavy seas. But it did - better than any of us. The controls are heavy duty, like what you'd expect to find on a commercial fishing vessel or a military vessel - not cheap, lightweight plastic. Note: installing the unit requires much mechanical skill and planning. There are NO "step by step" instructions. The owner, Will I think his name is, is helpful, but there's no way he's going to describe every nuance of installation. Whoever is doing it must understand Newton's third law of motion! NO hydraulic lines or fittings are provided. The book describes how we fabricated about eleven or so lines with the required fittings - this is a specific skill, not something you can buy at West Marine or Home Depot. Most people will need to hire a professional installer, and factor in that cost. All in all, I recommend W-H autopilots.


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## JonEisberg

Argyle38 said:


> If the wind is up, which it sounds like it was, I would drop the jib before I reefed the main. Going with main and staysail, you can still point nearly as well as you will with full sail, if you have a decent breeze. And if the jib is old and fat, you will point better without it and it will be windage forward if it's flogging, pushing the bow downwind, toward the reef.
> 
> It's hard to resist the urge, but you can't chase wind angle with a full keel boat. That's fools gold, if you are going slow, you're not really pointing as high as you think. There is too much leeway if you don't have any speed through the water. I would maybe try to build up some speed off the wind a little, hopefully not giving up too much ground, then pinch up and let the large mass of the boat power through a wave or two, then fall off again and build up speed and repeat. That would be my best guess, boat speed off the wind and momentum, but you have to keep boat speed up or you are going sideways.
> 
> Not trying to second guess, just going thinking about what I would do in that situation, since I have the same boat and have a pretty good feel for how it sails. What you describe is a tough situation in any boat. Love the solution to getting the engine started, very clever. Years of problem solving in front of a screen may have saved your skin that day.


Damn, and just when I thought there was no greater piece of crap sailing to weather, than an Island Trader 38... (grin, bigtime) Just kidding, of course - I was favorably impressed by the sailing ability of the 45 I ran, considering the type of boat it is...

One of the things the Downeaster 38 is known for, is being underpowered... The standard factory install of a Faryman 24 Hp is woefully inadequate for that boat, IMHO, and it's still a bit surprising to hear of a situation where such a small engine made such a big difference... (assuming SERENITY had that original powerplant, of course) Presumably, Glenn had been making progress to weather to put himself in that position to begin with, and I understand there can be some current in the vicinity of Cedros... More than anything, this should be a cautionary lesson in the avoidance of a lee shore situation in an un-weatherly boat to begin with - but not having been there, and not having read his book, that's all conjecture on my part, of course...

Your suggestion to go with the staysail and main alone in such a situation, however, with a boat with a bowsprit and so much freeboard forward, is right on the money... That likely would have offered his best way out of that box, the much tighter sheeting angle and flatter cut of most staysails might have afforded much better progress to weather... Last year I ran a Valiant 42 back north from the Rio Dulce, and we were hard on a good NE breeze all the way up to Isla Mujeres, and then across the Yucutan... Not only did we make a roughly equivalent VMG under staysail and main alone, than when trying to carry the jib, it was a more comfortable ride as well, less punishing to the boat, and much less water coming over the deck...

Kudos to Glenn for his creative solution with the engine, but this is another example of the value of a cruising boat being "nimble", and weatherly, and being able to sail out of a tight spot... There have been a couple of threads here recently re windward performance, and I'm always a bit surprised to hear some dismiss the importance of such ability in a cruising boat... Engines so often fail at the absolute most inopportune moment, and one may not always have the time to futz around with McGyver-style fixes, you need to be able to _sail_ your way to safety, if anchoring is not an option... I think it's not uncommon, that people get into trouble by wasting precious time attempting to get an engine running again in a dire circumstance, when the better initial response would be simply to sail your way out of danger...

And to Glenn, nice to see you show up here... Please understand, despite my initial post to this thread, I do not consider your trip to be a "failure" because you abandoned your plans to sail across the Pacific, and beyond. Obviously, in your case, you made the correct decision, for you... Again, your story should simply serve as a cautionary, informative tale in regards to The Reality not always matching The Dream, and the advisability of starting out cruising by taking an approach more akin to baby steps, than by jumping in with both feet... For some people, like the late Mike Harker, the latter approach worked out great, but it's certainly not a guarantee for everyone...

Best of luck with the book, and whatever path you choose next...


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks Jon. About a year earlier I replaced the Farymann with a new Yanmar 3YM, 29 HP, and a new three-blade prop sized for the engine and the hull. You're right, the original was probably too small for the size and weight of a DE 38, and I think the extra 5 HP makes a huge difference (and probably the really old Farymann's with worn cylinders couldn't put out the whole 24 anyhow).


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## CalebD

Glenn,

Look for a small uptick in sales of your book. It is a great stimulus to many of us to know that the author is a contributing member here. I suspect that the same would be true if you joined sailboatowners.com, the cruisers forum and perhaps even sailing anarchy (although they are a slightly rougher crowd). There is nothing wrong with a little self promotion. I will be ordering the kindle version very soon.

For bedding deck hardware many of us prefer to use butyl tape which never hardens. See this thread at sailboatowners: Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape - SailboatOwners.com

Thanks to DavidPM for contacting you.


----------



## AncientTech

CalebD said:


> For bedding deck hardware many of us prefer to use butyl tape which never hardens. See this thread at sailboatowners: Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape - SailboatOwners.com


Butyl tape is my #1 rebedding option for deck hardware, ports and lights. It works easy and is simple to clean up. That is the same link I used to learn how to handle my own projects, worked perfectly.


----------



## LauderBoy

Chewed through half the book last night and looking forward to the other half. There were a lot of laugh out loud moments in the book. It's a real shame that the Downeaster didn't work out for world cruising. Such a beautiful boat and so much work(and $$) was put into it.


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## Shinook

Glenn,

I really enjoyed the book. In fact, I started reading yesterday before work, read about 100 pages before I left for work, another 100 during lunch, and the rest later that night. I don't read books like yours often, but I really enjoyed it.

I'm also a self taught computer nerd, former pilot, and (attempting to be, anyway) sailor. I do have to admit, going from a world where fuel burn is measured in 10's of gallons per hour to reading a diesel burns ~1gph was a bit of a shock, I didn't know what to do with myself.

We're also restoring an old full keel, heavily displacement boat (although smaller than yours was, by a fair bit). I was surprised to hear about the water issue after everything was sealed, any idea how your boat's hull to deck joint was bonded at the factory?

Thanks for the book, it was great. I'd love to hear more about what you are doing now and in the future.


----------



## Argyle38

JonEisberg said:


> Damn, and just when I thought there was no greater piece of crap sailing to weather, than an Island Trader 38... (grin, bigtime) Just kidding, of course - I was favorably impressed by the sailing ability of the 45 I ran, considering the type of boat it is...


No way!  There is an Island Trader at the marina where I winter Argyle. Looking at that boat, I would guarantee I would smoke that guy (and I can't say that about many boats either). 

They perform to windward about as well as an Island Packet, I've sailed with IP's and we're on par. I've heard they are a bit better than Westsails, but I've never sailed on or near one of those. Not to many heavy cruisers on Long Island Sound.



> One of the things the Downeaster 38 is known for, is being underpowered... The standard factory install of a Faryman 24 Hp is woefully inadequate for that boat.


Absolutely! They originally came with either the 24 hp or a 36 hp as an option. I dropped in a Perkins 4-108 in Argyle (49 hp), which I've seen a lot of folks do. The original engines were also raw water cooled, so most of them are toast by now anyway. The 4-108 is about the biggest engine you can fit in there without doing some major cutting.

The Downeasters are also a bit underpowered sail wise as well. The 38 has a relatively short mast (43' 9") for a 20k lb. boat. You can always put up something big for off the wind, but upwind that short stick does you no favors.

I'd still smoke that Island Trader though!


----------



## Argyle38

LauderBoy said:


> Chewed through half the book last night and looking forward to the other half. There were a lot of laugh out loud moments in the book. It's a real shame that the Downeaster didn't work out for world cruising. Such a beautiful boat and so much work(and $$) was put into it.


I know of at least four Downeasters that have circumnavigated and one guy I've talked to sails all around the south pacific islands on one. They're capable, but they are a lot of work and they ain't getting any younger.


----------



## Shinook

I'm also curious, have you heard from any of your former crew since your trip and writing the book? 

I'm particularly curious how they reacted to your descriptions of them


----------



## OPossumTX

Silvio said:


> Can't do it, can't teach yourself to sail. It's just not possible. Also, never leave the dock alone or you ill violate 79 different federal and state boating laws. Oh, never go below while single handing, you will definitely sink your vessel if you do.
> 
> Other than that there is no fear-based perspective 'round here.


I went below to visit the head while single handing one time and promptly ran aground. I quickly filed that in my lessons learned folder. Always make certain that there is no shallow water within striking distance before going below. 

I bought the dead tree version of the book. Should be here 1st week in February.

Have FUN!
O'


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks everyone for all the input on what could have been done to keep the interior dry. All good to know for the future. This morning I recieved a direct email from one of the founders of a major, well-known US yacht manufacturer! He wanted to let me know how much he enjoyed the book and he expressed his strong opinion that I (and the character Richard in the book) are correct: the hull-deck joint was the culprit, and the only solution was to have a crane lift the deck from the hull and re-bed properly. He agreed this was a huge undertaking and having it done to a 30+ year old boat in a Mexican boatyard was a highly dubious proposition.


----------



## glenndamato

Shinook,

I changed the names of all major characters, and also changed at least one thing about them so they would not be possible to track down - I don't want any hassels. The ages, personalities, genders and appearances - all the things central to the story - are as they were in real life. Jon, Tweety and Duffy exist with those names (Duffy of course passed away about a year after I met him).

The only people I kept in touch with (via internet) are "Joyce" and "Doug." Both are still working and as of a year ago both sail, although Doug is now 71.

I made both aware of the book and Joyce is cool with the fact that she took the original photograph that was used to create the cover image. However, neither has commented to me on the book. Sorry!

The relatively minor characters, like Megan and Loukia, and probably unaware of the book - I don't have a means of reaching them. It is possible Joyce told them.

I had a vision a while ago of Joyce, Doug, Megan, Loukia and I all appearing on . . . Oprah! Wouldn't that be fun? Of course, the book will have to be a lot more popular than it is now! If sales really take off a big publisher may decide to contract for distribution and that would get it into brick-and-mortar stores. Just dreamin'!


----------



## davidpm

Doug would you mind scrolling back a bit and find my question about the auto-helm.
Must have gotten lost.
I think it is an important point because the standard auto-helms don't handle weather very well, I have experienced that myself on several boats.
Wind-vanes are the traditional solutions but look like a lot of gear to me.
Your solution is using a commercial quality unit may be a good solution for a lot of people.
How much was it?


----------



## smackdaddy

davidpm said:


> Doug would you mind scrolling back a bit and find my question about the auto-helm.
> Must have gotten lost.
> I think it is an important point because the standard auto-helms don't handle weather very well, I have experienced that myself on several boats.
> Wind-vanes are the traditional solutions but look like a lot of gear to me.
> Your solution is using a commercial quality unit may be a good solution for a lot of people.
> How much was it?


He did...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...e-no-experience-buys-big-boat.html#post982779


----------



## Shinook

glenndamato said:


> Shinook,
> 
> I changed the names of all major characters, and also changed at least one thing about them so they would not be possible to track down - I don't want any hassels. The ages, personalities, genders and appearances - all the things central to the story - are as they were in real life. Jon, Tweety and Duffy exist with those names (Duffy of course passed away about a year after I met him).
> 
> The only people I kept in touch with (via internet) are "Joyce" and "Doug." Both are still working and as of a year ago both sail, although Doug is now 71.
> 
> I made both aware of the book and Joyce is cool with the fact that she took the original photograph that was used to create the cover image. However, neither has commented to me on the book. Sorry!
> 
> The relatively minor characters, like Megan and Loukia, and probably unaware of the book - I don't have a means of reaching them. It is possible Joyce told them.
> 
> I had a vision a while ago of Joyce, Doug, Megan, Loukia and I all appearing on . . . Oprah! Wouldn't that be fun? Of course, the book will have to be a lot more popular than it is now! If sales really take off a big publisher may decide to contract for distribution and that would get it into brick-and-mortar stores. Just dreamin'!


No worries! I was just curious.

Thanks again for the read, it was great. I imagine you could show up on Oprah or, even better, end up with your own reality TV show with all of you on a boat again


----------



## CS Cruiser

Glen, now that I'm through all pages of this post, it's off to Amazon for a kindle copy, cheers!


----------



## davidpm

smackdaddy said:


> He did...
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...e-no-experience-buys-big-boat.html#post982779


Got it, thanks.
Hazard of using small screens.


----------



## davidpm

There was a scene in the book where the anchor had to be raised. Joyce refused to do that job and insisted on helming.
She almost crashed the boat.
I usually do the anchor duty as my wife really can't, knee problems. 
This is a tough one.
In Glenn's case Joyce had a really bad attitude about everything. 
But even so It is a risk I always think about.
Is it safer to do both bow and stern myself or safer to put someone who may not be that competent or confident on the helm.
It is a tough call?


----------



## Silvio

Ok, I ordered the book. Everyone stop talking about now until I read it.


----------



## bljones

Thanks for graciously answering the questions posted here, glenn. Keep on keeping on.


----------



## davidpm

Glen you mentioned on the book that you built a plywood box for the refrigerator evaporator and that it has a fan on it. Was that in the engine room?
Would you elaborate on that install.
How did it work out.


----------



## glenndamato

Right - I tried to make a "cool box" around the compressor-evaporator.

The boat was made in 1977 with two thinly insulated ice boxes. Someone had once put a cold plate and the associated mechanics into the aft icebox. When I bought the boat that unit was just a solid block of rust - would not turn on.

I pulled it all out and replaced it with a new system from the West Marine catalog ($$$$). The ONLY place I could possibly locate it was on a nice flat area on the port side of the engine room. Of course, the engine room is the worst place to locate a compressor-evaporator.

The manufacturer sold a "ventilation kit" consisting of a fan and tubular air ducts, designed to blow cool bilge air on the compressor. But my unit was actually in the ER and inches from the engine itself, so I went one further and build a little "dog house" around the unit, with cool air sucking in from the bilge and blowing out to a mushroom vent located directly overhead. The vent had to be on the afterdeck.

As usual, all this was great in theory, and worked great at the dock, but at sea was another story. The mushroom vent was in a bad spot where people tended to hit it and step on it. Of course, it HAD to be open whenever the reefer was cycling!

In heavy weather seawater would rush past the vent! Unless it was closed tight, water would enter the duct! I had anticipated this and put a U-bend in the duct tube with a small drain hole at the bottom of the U.

The other issue with the reefer was poor insulation. This is the bane with some production boats. I left this part out from the book because the "boatwork" sections were getting too long, but Doug had some experience in doing kitchen counters and he wanted to replace our whole galley countertop, and get rid of the TACKY 1970's fake wood grain plastic crap (imagine how that looked after 30 years).

I went to this on-line company (I forget the name) and purchased all the raw materials to make the reefer box from scratch: fiberglass sheet, VACUUM plate insulation, and a VACUUM insulated door. For your money (and they want a lot of it) you supply them with the exact shape and dimensions of your insulation plates. The plates are something like 1/2 inch thick but because of the vacuum chambers they are equal to 6-8 inches of the best foam insulation.

This was a lot of work but when it was done the whole kit-and-kaboodle (reefer and countertop, glistening white formica) looked and worked great.

Except for the damn vent, the whole system worked great. If anything, it worked too well, freezing stuff we did not want frozen until we learned to dial it way down. Used very little electricity, gave us plenty of real ice, cooled a lot of stuff extremely well. Thanks to the vacuum plates, we could close the vent and open the reefer breaker for 12-24 hours and it would still be cold! Like a thermos bottle, basically. It probably set me back around $4000 total, plus maybe 60 hours of labor, but it worked exceptionally well.


----------



## captainbri

Everyone has to start somewhere, some people have never spent more than a few days on any boat, look down the doc's and 90% of the boats only go out for a few hours at a time and fewer go more than 30 miles off shore.

I loved on a boat traveling all over for two years and pure fact is no matter how bad the weather gets, 75% of all abandoned boats at sea are later found still floating.

He is not a failure for selling his boat he is a hero for doing what most have not done.


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## rbyham

I bought the book Kindle version. Nice read so far. I am about 1/3 way in. Love the way I can read books on the road on my android phone.


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## LauderBoy

glenndamato said:


> It seemed to me that all the other singlehanders I could see had fallen into alcohol abuse. They were clearly NOT a part of the "standard" cruising community, consisting of families and couples. As detailed in the book, I could not see myself living that lifestyle.


One thing you might consider is that the reason the cruising community looks like it does to you is because single affluent white American men with a family mindset and sense of adventure that travel to foreign ports likely don't stay single for very long.

When you're planning your next trip you might try to view it with an eye that there's an entire world of beautiful women out there who all have different cultural opinions of what they find attractive in a mate. If you're not enjoying your time and company in one port, well, there's always another port of call on the horizon.


----------



## JonEisberg

LauderBoy said:


> Originally Posted by glenndamato
> It seemed to me that all the other singlehanders I could see had fallen into alcohol abuse. They were clearly NOT a part of the "standard" cruising community, consisting of families and couples. As detailed in the book, I could not see myself living that lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing you might consider is that the reason the cruising community looks like it does to you is because single affluent white American men with a family mindset and sense of adventure that travel to foreign ports likely don't stay single for very long.
> 
> When you're planning your next trip you might try to view it with an eye that there's an entire world of beautiful women out there who all have different cultural opinions of what they find attractive in a mate. If you're not enjoying your time and company in one port, well, there's always another port of call on the horizon.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I read that comment, my first thought was "Sounds like Mexico, to me..." Or, any number of other places - the Rio Dulce, Phuket, Marathon, to name a few - where singlehanded "cruisers" have washed up, found the living and booze cheap, and aren't going anywhere else anytime soon...

Get off the beaten track a bit, and encounter singlehanders who are really going places, I don't think the incidence of alcoholism is particularly prevalent... Pretty unlikely to see a fellow cruiser walking down the docks at 1000 hrs with a beer in his hand in a place like this, in my experience... In a paradise like the Florida Keys, however, it can be depressingly commonplace...


----------



## Smier

Well Glenn, I just ordered your book from amazon. I hope it helps the new boat fund, I'm looking forward to checking it out after reading thru this thread!


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## manhattan08

Glenn - What are your plans for the future? Doing another cruise?


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## glenndamato

That's a good question, Manhattan. I've been checking out some boats, and there are some great deals. But . . . I know how a boat takes over your life (if you give it the care and attention it needs) and swallows vast amounts of cash. I want to complete a novel this year and I have other ideas for fiction too - ideally, I'd quit my job again, live on the boat, and write full time. Sounds great in theory, but in reality I'm not sure if living aboard is right for me - assuming I could find an open liveaboard slip in California. 

My job takes up a lot of time too, with travel, but the pay and benefits are just too good to casually walk away from. It took me fifteen years to get where I am in IT - if I walk away now, at age 53 (in May), with the economy likely to be in the dumps for the forseeable future, it probably means it will be the last good paying, good benefits job I will ever have. I know that may sound cowardly, but there it is. I like the comforts and not having to fret about money.

Is it possible to write, take care of an old boat, and have a significant full time IT job (that requires travel - avg 20-22 trips a year, 4-6 days each) all at the same time??? I don't know. I've got to look at these options carefully and realistically. I would love to split my time between boatwork and writing in some nice spot like a liveaboard slip in Ventura or somewhere else in California - but is that doable?


----------



## glenndamato

THANK YOU fellow sailors for your support on this book project. I can also use advice on finding a cruising boat in So. Cal and maybe a liveaboard slip. Exploring options!

For everyone who has read Breaking Seas and enjoyed it, please feel free to do a review on Amazon if reviews are your cup of tea. With a first book, these reviews are really important toward getting people to take a chance on an unknown writer and buy it!

Thanks in advance -


----------



## MarkSF

Silvio said:


> Oh, never go below while single handing, you will definitely sink your vessel if you do.


How else am I supposed to make a cup of tea? Or are you suggesting that I sail SF Bay without regular supplies of hot tea? That would be ridiculous.


----------



## JoeDiver

glenndamato said:


> THANK YOU fellow sailors for your support on this book project. I can also use advice on finding a cruising boat in So. Cal and maybe a liveaboard slip. Exploring options!
> 
> For everyone who has read Breaking Seas and enjoyed it, please feel free to do a review on Amazon if reviews are your cup of tea. With a first book, these reviews are really important toward getting people to take a chance on an unknown writer and buy it!
> 
> Thanks in advance -


Will do Glenn....I bought the Kindle version and am reading it now. It hooked me pretty quick. I like your writing style.


----------



## vega1860

msmith10 said:


> Welcome to the forum, and nice post, Glenn. I recommend against posting "Female sailing companion wanted" on this site. That approach has been tried and always invites a slew of commentary. Who knows, though, you may get lucky.


And then there are we lucky few who already have a wife who embraces the adventure (And who sometimes reads sailnet)


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## awahl

Hi Glen, 

I will purchase the kindle version to read as soon as I'm done with the 17 other various books about boats, sailing, maintenance, etc...I'm reading right now...

I will be turning 52 in May. Also in May I will be enjoying my first ever sailing season aboard our new (to us) Endeavour 32.... So, you may see how your book may have a special appeal... 

I'm looking forward to all three things. 

Cheers!

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TakeFive

I hope to start reading it this weekend.

FYI, it can be borrowed for free by Amazon Prime members. Hopefully Glenn gets a piece of my annual Prime membership fee for this. (I think I remember my son mentioning that publishers get around $1 for every loan.)

Glenn - I'm interested in hearing how this works out for you. My son works for Amazon doing behind-the-scenes development for Kindle publishing and has been touting the virtues of self-publishing Kindle content through Amazon. I'm not sure whether you're following that model, or if you are using a publisher/agent as an intermediary.


----------



## smackdaddy

Bought it. Reading it. Will review.


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## sd1953

Glenn,
I saw the book in the OP for this thread. Bought it. Read it. Loved it. Well done.
I also read in a later post that you are still in touch with "Joyce". In reading the book the story seems to me to paint her as rather abrasive (and mildly mutinous). Did I read something into the story you did not intend? If that is the type of sailing companion (and crew) she is, why are you keeping in touch with her? Would you sail with her again?


----------



## Capt.aaron

JonEisberg said:


> Yeah, when I read that comment, my first thought was "Sounds like Mexico, to me..." Or, any number of other places - the Rio Dulce, Phuket, Marathon, to name a few - where singlehanded "cruisers" have washed up, found the living and booze cheap, and aren't going anywhere else anytime soon...
> 
> Get off the beaten track a bit, and encounter singlehanders who are really going places, I don't think the incidence of alcoholism is particularly prevalent... Pretty unlikely to see a fellow cruiser walking down the docks at 1000 hrs with a beer in his hand in a place like this, in my experience... In a paradise like the Florida Keys, however, it can be depressingly commonplace...


Hey, I resemble that last remark! No seriously, as a long time liveaboard some times single, single handler, who has many miles under the keel, I have learned there is a time for drink'n and a time for sailing, and rarley do they cross timelines. Trick is, not to let one get in the way of the other. You sail, you drink and talk about your sail, sober up, and sail again. Balance.


----------



## TomMaine

I hope to get to your book, Glen. It sounds like a good read. I've enjoyed your bits of the experience here. Nice and honest. 

If we put everybody together that bought a boat to go cruising and thought they would sail around the world, and then didn't go around the world, how big a crowd would that be? 

The accomplishment to me is you did it, left your shore side life, took off for a while on a boat, came back and now you've written an interesting book about it. 

Cruising may not be the panacea that many dream it is. I think you have to bring your own(panacea), not matter where you go. It's ok to say, once is enough too. Living aboard a boat isn't for everybody. You can still buy another boat and just go sailing.


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## MokaKat

Glenn,
I downloaded your book a few days ago, and have started reading it! I has been hard to put down. I also have plans on cruising either later this year, or in the new future. I have been around boats most of my life, so I feel pretty comfortable. I took some ASA class last fall (www.MokaKat.com) which I kept a blog about my experiences. Thanks for coming aboard the forum to answer our questions! Once I finish I will for sure rate the book! So far it has been an excelent read!


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Yeah, when I read that comment, my first thought was "Sounds like Mexico, to me..." Or, any number of other places - the Rio Dulce, Phuket, Marathon, to name a few - where singlehanded "cruisers" have washed up, found the living and booze cheap, and aren't going anywhere else anytime soon...
> 
> Get off the beaten track a bit, and encounter singlehanders who are really going places, I don't think the incidence of alcoholism is particularly prevalent... Pretty unlikely to see a fellow cruiser walking down the docks at 1000 hrs with a beer in his hand in a place like this, in my experience... In a paradise like the Florida Keys, however, it can be depressingly commonplace...


Tell whoever owns that sailboat at the end of the dock that they need to do a better job securing their halyards in a blow. Shameful.

Probably a newb. Heh-heh.


----------



## LauderBoy

glenndamato said:


> My job takes up a lot of time too, with travel, but the pay and benefits are just too good to casually walk away from.


I really feel that trap a lot myself. In about 30 mins I'm interviewing my own replacement for a cushy, well paying IT job, and I don't have anything lined up for myself afterwards except some savings, a long list of boat projects, some destinations I want to sail to and a few ideas of alternate ways to earn income(writing, freelance IT, etc).

But I guess my fear of losing my good health and not being able to travel is greater than my fear of ending up not being able to make ends meet or find employment a year from now.

Still I always have that small voice saying "just stick it out in the corporate world and earn a little more money first..." I don't know if that voice would ever go away though.


----------



## ltgoshen

Hi Glen,

I will be purchasing the book to read as soon as I'm done with some of the other various books I have to read, etc...I need to spend more time reading and less time working. 
I will be turning 50 in March. This summer, we will enjoy our first ever sailing season while sleeping aboard our C&C 30 MK1. Your book may have some special meaning to a guy like me. My wife and I have plans to do Island hopping or "Gunk-holing". We are new to sailing and spent last summer up-fitting the boat and getting her ready for new occupants. I have put a round 550 miles under her keel last year. That is a lot of sailing. Your book looks exciting and just the kind of read I may need. I have read many books and self-help articles in magazines and on the internet. Thanks for your story and thanks for popping in the site here with some conversation.

I'm looking forward to a good read.

Cheers! 
Capt, Curt From the free sailboat S/V East Coast Lady


----------



## MokaKat

LauderBoy said:


> I really feel that trap a lot myself. In about 30 mins I'm interviewing my own replacement for a cushy, well paying IT job, and I don't have anything lined up for myself afterwards except some savings, a long list of boat projects, some destinations I want to sail to and a few ideas of alternate ways to earn income(writing, freelance IT, etc).
> 
> But I guess my fear of losing my good health and not being able to travel is greater than my fear of ending up not being able to make ends meet or find employment a year from now.
> 
> Still I always have that small voice saying "just stick it out in the corporate world and earn a little more money first..." I don't know if that voice would ever go away though.


LauderBoy,
It looks like I am in the same boat as yourself! I have a couple more months to go, but I also will be cutting the chains of Corporate IT life, for a couple of years cruising. It continues to be a hard decision, as stock benefits and a nice salary in the IT world are hard to give up. I have been at the same company for 28 years, so it is time for a change anyway. At 55, I feel that my window of crusing may be closing, if I don't cut the lines and go. I know too many business colleagues that had dreams of RVing, or snow skiing in their retirement, only to have either a medical issue or a personal event that crushed their dream. I feel that the regret of not going is higher than the salary lost for the next few years. I think that re-intenting yourself after so many years in a single vocation is probably healthy. My blog is www.MokaKat.com, but I have been restricted in expressing too much information about my situation, as I want to stay employed until I choose not to be . Good luck with your adventure, and start a blog to share your experiences!


----------



## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> Except for the damn vent, the whole system worked great. If anything, it worked too well, freezing stuff we did not want frozen until we learned to dial it way down. Used very little electricity, gave us plenty of real ice, cooled a lot of stuff extremely well. Thanks to the vacuum plates, we could close the vent and open the reefer breaker for 12-24 hours and it would still be cold! Like a thermos bottle, basically. It probably set me back around $4000 total, plus maybe 60 hours of labor, but it worked exceptionally well.


Wow that is amazing.
If you can come up with the website for the parts that would be helpful.


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## davidpm

So far we have gotten info on two systems that worked well.
Refrigerator and autohelm

I couldn't tell from the book how you would rate the airhead.
A bunch of women who were determined that they wouldn't be bothered to change old behaviors is obviously not a good test. They could have clogged a marine head and still blamed you.
So would you give it another try?


----------



## glenndamato

TakeFive: I directly published it myself. Amazon pays a flat percentage of the price, plus something for each book borrowed (not sure exactly how much). My big cost was having someone do the graphics for the cover! I did the typesetting myself, after a lot of research and trial and error. 

Amazon offers a great deal because a few years ago they generously (and wisely) decided not to "ghetoize" self-published books by setting up a separate "Indie Store" or something like that. That would have killed the opportunity in the cradle.

Major publishers, the kind that could get a book into Barnes & Noble, will not consider a new author unless the author already has a "built-in platform," i.e. they are already famous and several thousand people will buy the book because they recognize the author from a radio show, a TV show, the movies, the news, whatever. Since 1985 or so "professional managers" have been running the major publishing companies and they are not willing to invest in new writers as was the custom decades ago. They demand that EVERY book be profitable.

What makes self publishing attractive is that Amazon does not charge anything AND they provide a massively popular website where people can find your book. If new authors had to try to publicize their book from their own website or blog, it would be hopeless (unless they already have their platform!). It costs a lot of money and a lot of time to attract real traffic to a web site or blog (or a lot of luck) because there are so many millions of them.

Amazon reviews are vital! Everyone who has read and liked Breaking Seas, please consider writing a review on Amazon. That REALLY helps with a first book. 

On a final note, this is not something where you're going to get rich. Between the cover art, proofreading and professional editing (just editing, not ghostwriting, which is something else) I was in the hole for about $4500 when the book came out 11/11/2012 and I am maybe 2/3 of the way to breakeven. As I said, not the road to riches. But with a moderately popular book, Amazon can provide a "trickle" income over several years.

Note also that there are hundreds of thousands of self-published books out each year, and something like 95-percent do not sell more than 200 copies.


----------



## glenndamato

David - I do recommend the Airhead, with two caveats. First, it only makes sense for a small crew, one or two. Practical Sailor did a review and they mentioned this too. The principle of the Airhead is that fecal material is mixed (via the crank handle) with dry peat and coupled with the small continuous airflow, the feces dries out before it can stink. This sounds dubious but it really does work: there is NO odor. 

However, with three or more crew, it's pushing it. The more feces the higher the mixture ratio, the more dampness, the more likely you will have an odor. Plus, obviously, the unit is not designed for "Montezuma's Revenge!"

Then there is the exteror "piss bottle." Airhead may have re-designed this, but until you can confirm this, all crew must understand they CANNOT piss into the main container. That will certainly result in serious stink. Plus, someone has to empty the bottle. It is possible for females to piss directly into the bottle with a "special attachment." You should visit a boatshow for a demonstration (not a live demonstration!).

The advantages of the Airhead over a typical marine head, with hoses and a holding tank, are huge. It cannot clog! It requires no maintenance besides emptying and that's no big deal. When used properly, no odor. ALL marine heads of the wet sort DO stink, and there's nothing you can do about that. When feces decays in water, anaerobically, it stinks. No $15 a foot hose can solve that. Aerobic decay is odor free, hard to believe as that may be. When you empty it, it smells faintly like the garden department at Home Depot. Plus, even though the unit itself is somewhat larger than a basic marine head, because there is no hose, no holding tank and no vented loop or Y-valve, there is a significant weight-space-complexity savings.


----------



## GeorgeB

Glen,
When you are selling a self published book on Amazon, who does the shipping? You or Amazon from their location? If Amazon ships, is the contractual obligation that hey hold your books in their warehouse on consignment?


----------



## shadowraiths

Ok, bought, downloaded, and finished reading the book. It was an easy read.

I do have a comment about Glenn's self deprecation. He makes himself out to be a repugnant looking man, yet, if his website picture is any indication, I would say that he is vastly an over exaggerating. Imo, he is average, if not even a little above average, looking. In other words, not eye candy but hardly fugly, either.

As for setting out to "_live the dream_," and realizing it was not quite what he had in mind? Well, as Heinlein says, "_Sure, the game's rigged. But if you don't play, you can't win._" Afaics, at least he tried. More than tried, for that matter. In other words, what he did is hardly something to be ashamed of, or apologetic for.

Wrt the question of living aboard, working, and writing. Sure, it's feasible. That's what I'm doing. It really depends upon your needs (_i.e, some people require more room to stretch out, etc_). Otherwise put, everyone's needs are different. Btw, there are avail live aboard slips in SF Bay area. Though, I can see those dwindling as spring/summer & america's cup approach.

That said, in all, I found the read to be a fount of info wrt the sort of challenges that can arise when blue water sailing. And I applaud Glenn for not only embarking on his adventure but sharing it with others, as well.


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks Shadow! Please note that the photo is a still from a documentary and it was shot by a professional cameraman. The documentary, Fatty, has not been distributed. It was a project I undertook as an expose of the American diet industry. In the film, I eat "as my grandparents ate" and give up all diets per se - I lost about 43 lbs, but temporarily. 

Also, as described in the book, I am not really ugly, but SMALL. In a man, that is a bigger defect than ugliness, really. People have told me I actually look smaller than I am! I believe that is caused by narrow shoulders and having arms and legs shorter than my torso would dictate - in other words, out of proportion. I also take personal responsibility over the fact I am single and dateless: I just have no physical feelings toward fat women, and I do not want that to change - so I am not willing to "work at it." I'm fine with the way things are. I realize I am not "hot" to pretty women, and I'm fine with that too - I just had to learn not to waste time in pursuit of something that was not meant to be. 

Hey, you're not charging me for therapy, are ya? ; > )


----------



## glenndamato

George: Amazon ships (actually CreateSpace, which Amazon purchased).

CreateSpace is a print-on-demand service but they are very good: fast, cheap, and high quality. No "inventory" is purchased by the author. When someone orders a paperback copy of a CreateSpace book, Amazon prints it on demand. The cost of a book the size of Breaking Seas (very typical of a paperback) is a bit over $5. The quality is superb: exactly what you would find at Barnes & Noble, no cheap look or feel at all.

However, please note, CreateSpace has no "standards" with respect to cover art or typesetting. YOU upload the content of the book in pdf format, inside and outside. They print. Thus, the look of your book is 100-percent dependent on what you upload to them. Many people upload crappy covers and interiors and their books look like hell when printed. That is not the fault of CreateSpace.

Since this is print-on-demand, there is no inventory to pay for. Amazon (and CreateSpace) charge NOTHING. But keep in mind, unless you happen to be a skilled graphics artist, and you know how to typeset a book, you will need to farm out those jobs. I hired someone to do my cover from two photos I provided, and my typesetting I did myself to save $2800. The inside of a book is NOT an easy thing to do - it took me several weekends. It's one of those things that's harder than it looks. I used Apple's layout software called "Pages."

Hope that helps -


----------



## glenndamato

Sorry Dave, I just ordered it from the West Marine catalog. I think the name and brand was "Ardour-Babour cold machine" or something like that. I got it with the ventilation kit. Don't forget, a big reason our reefer worked so well is I went the whole nine yards and got the vacuum insulation plates. Let me do a google search and see if it gives me the company name.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Tell whoever owns that sailboat at the end of the dock that they need to do a better job securing their halyards in a blow. Shameful.
> 
> Probably a newb. Heh-heh.


LOL! Good eye, there... Yeah, I'll bet that dumbass is still trying to figure out how that spare halyard got free...

Two days later, however, I managed to do something WAY dumber...

I was leaving Francois early on a Sunday morning, flat calm, headed for another fjord around the corner, maybe 2 hours distant. It was gonna be calm, so I was just gonna tow my dinghy for the short trip...

So, I pull away from the dock aways, then stop the boat to bring in fenders and dock lines... All the dock lines had been doubled, and in removing them, I first had to untie the dink... I always use 2 separate painters when towing my dinghy any distance, and in clearing all the dock lines, I 'secured' them with a few casual wraps around the stern cleat, and continued deflating the fenders, and stowing all my gear... You can likely guess where this story is going... (grin)

Ready to get going again, put the engine in gear, set the autopilot, and jump down below to brew some coffee... Only my second of the morning, so I'm still half asleep... After about 5 minutes, however, something doesn't "feel right"... I'm looking around, admiring the beautiful view astern, when it finally dawns on me - something is _missing_...

The morning was so still, my tender had probably not moved more than a few yards from where my half-assed 'temporary' wrap around the cleat had eventually slipped free, and set it adrift... I sheepishly returned to the scene of the crime, half-wishing my stupidity had been concealed by fog, instead of happening in the clear light of such a beautiful day... I have no doubt, within an hour or two at most, every single one of the 130 residents of Francois had already had a good chuckle as the story the incompetence of some dumb American yachtie had spread through the community...

I'll bet someone even said something like, "We never used to see clowns like this up here, back in the days before GPS _enabled_ them to find their way here to begin with..." (grin)


----------



## PCP

JonEisberg said:


> ...
> I'll bet someone even said something like, "We never used to see clowns like this up here, back in the days before GPS _enabled_ them to find their way here to begin with..." (grin)
> 
> ...




I wish all had your ability to give a good laugh at their own mistakes. The world would be a far better place.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## Shinook

JonEisberg said:


>


Where were these photos taken?


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> LOL! Good eye, there... Yeah, I'll bet that dumbass is still trying to figure out how that spare halyard got free...
> 
> Two days later, however, I managed to do something WAY dumber...
> 
> I was leaving Francois early on a Sunday morning, flat calm, headed for another fjord around the corner, maybe 2 hours distant. It was gonna be calm, so I was just gonna tow my dinghy for the short trip...
> 
> So, I pull away from the dock aways, then stop the boat to bring in fenders and dock lines... All the dock lines had been doubled, and in removing them, I first had to untie the dink... I always use 2 separate painters when towing my dinghy any distance, and in clearing all the dock lines, I 'secured' them with a few casual wraps around the stern cleat, and continued deflating the fenders, and stowing all my gear... You can likely guess where this story is going... (grin)
> 
> Ready to get going again, put the engine in gear, set the autopilot, and jump down below to brew some coffee... Only my second of the morning, so I'm still half asleep... After about 5 minutes, however, something doesn't "feel right"... I'm looking around, admiring the beautiful view astern, when it finally dawns on me - something is _missing_...
> 
> The morning was so still, my tender had probably not moved more than a few yards from where my half-assed 'temporary' wrap around the cleat had eventually slipped free, and set it adrift... I sheepishly returned to the scene of the crime, half-wishing my stupidity had been concealed by fog, instead of happening in the clear light of such a beautiful day... I have no doubt, within an hour or two at most, every single one of the 130 residents of Francois had already had a good chuckle as the story the incompetence of some dumb American yachtie had spread through the community...
> 
> I'll bet someone even said something like, "We never used to see clowns like this up here, back in the days before GPS _enabled_ them to find their way here to begin with..." (grin)


You're alright JonE. Though I like busting your chops sometimes - I wanna sail like you when I grow up.


----------



## JonEisberg

Shinook said:


> Where were these photos taken?


This was Francois (pronounced _France-way_), one of the last still-thriving outports along the south coast of Newfoundland...


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## mstern

Glenn: just ordered your book last night. Given the hub-bub here, I can't wait to read it.


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## miatapaul

By the way it is under 10 bucks on Barns and Noble on line for the paper version, but there is no nook version. Have you thought about offering an epub version directly? I have a nook but will buy the kindle version and read it on my phone. Sounds interesting. 

JonEisberg that looks like an amazing place, bet there summer is not very long though! Did you take the photos? The lighting is beautiful and the detail is amazing.


----------



## Shinook

JonEisberg said:


> This was Francois (pronounced _France-way_), one of the last still-thriving outports along the south coast of Newfoundland...


Looks amazing!

I read about it a little bit online, the blurb I read indicated the population was < 150 people! How do they take to visitors?


----------



## davidpm

OK back to lessons from the book.
You mentioned a water maker I believe only in passing.
Did you install it. If so which one and did it work as expected?


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## davidpm

Portand Pudgy
Obviously not for four people but what about two?
I don't belive it is acceptable for racing requirements


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## glenndamato

Miatapaul: It was my understanding that the Nook can run a Kindle application. Is that not correct?

Because I chose to make the book part of "Amazon Prime," Amazon has the sole electronic distribution rights for a 90-day period. This expires for the first time in less than two weeks, but I can renew it. Books that participate in Amazon Prime are more heavily promoted by Amazon, and the author has options to offer free copies for a limited time and so on. I chose to participate because Amazon is the lion's share of eBooks right now - my eBook reader is an iPad 3, but I run the Kindle app on it. I believe only Apple iBooks demand an Apple native format.


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## Waterdawg43

Just ordered your book Glenn, but I'm old school. Bought a paperback, LOL


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## davidpm

Is anyone here a regular at Anythingsailing.com?
Seems like a lot of us here like Glen's book so maybe someone who is a regular at AS might like to get our author of the week hooked up with "the other sailing site."
I've got a login but don't post too often and I've heard they can be a little tough so maybe a note from a regular would go over better.


----------



## TakeFive

glenndamato said:


> Miatapaul: It was my understanding that the Nook can run a Kindle application. Is that not correct?.


There's a Kindle app that will run on Android tablets and phones. Nooks are built on Android, but B&N limits the functionality to prevent "non-approved" apps from running. Not surprisingly, Kindle software is "non-approved." However, Nook Color and Tablet can be easily hacked to run the full Android OS, and then Kindle app for Android is easily installed on it. (I have actually done this with my Nook Color.)

Nook Simple Touch can theoretically do the same, but the e-ink display is so slow that the full Android does not run well. (I have not tried this, but my carpool buddy refused to listen to my warnings and tried it anyway. He was very unhappy with the result.)

However, an even better option for Nook owners is to buy the Kindle book and download to Kindle software for PC or Mac, install the Calibre software on your PC or Mac, download an Add-In to strip the DRM (might be unnecessary, since many of these self-published books do not have DRM), and have Calibre convert it from Kindle to EPUB, then copy it onto the Nook. It actually is simpler than it sounds. Technically this is a violation of the terms of use, but if you are paying for the book I do not believe that it's unethical as long as you are not sharing the copy.

Since I have a Nook Touch, I have made this conversion for other Kindle books that I purchased from Amazon, but in this case I've borrowed my son's Kindle so I can borrow the book from Amazon Prime's lending library. The lending library is only available on Kindle hardware.


----------



## smackdaddy

davidpm said:


> Is anyone here a regular at Anythingsailing.com?
> Seems like a lot of us here like Glen's book so maybe someone who is a regular at AS might like to get our author of the week hooked up with "the other sailing site."
> I've got a login but don't post too often and I've heard they can be a little tough so maybe a note from a regular would go over better.


Should really go where people are. Has anyone posted this on CF? If not, I'll hook Glenn up over there. I can also pimp it over at SA in the cruising section.

It's a good read. And I love it that he's published this completely on his own. Very cool.


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## CalebD

David,
Seek and yee shall whatever...

Newbie with no experience buys big boat

Newbie with no experience buys big boat - SailboatOwners.com

I'll let smacktabby post it on CF and SA (both places I don't haunt much).


----------



## glenndamato

Thank you for your patronage, RealST. Enjoy the book! them dead trees need to be used for somethin'!


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks Smackdaddy! You all are so cool. I wish I could pour you a glass of this fine zin right now. 

Because this is my first book, I can use the help towards promotion - thank you everyone!


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks for the info, TakeFive. I didn't know it was so complicated! It reminds me of the early days of PC's, the era 1982-86 approximately, when there were five or six "major" kinds of PC and software could only run on one type. At least eReaders, even the iPad, cost about 1/10 of a full-blown 1984 PC, in adjusted dollars.

I was an avid first-generation Kindle user for a couple of years and when the iPad came out I assumed if I went with it I would have to give up my Kindle library. When the Apple guy showed me the Kindle app, I was sold. Very happy with iPad 1 and 3 - the glare doesn't seem to be a problem, but the light generating screen is useful for those cases when artificial light is not available.


----------



## Silvio

Well crap,
I ordered a version of this book and now am not sure if it is compatible with my reader. It came in a package that requires some user input, it appears that I must manually "move" the opening "screen", "app", or whatever the technical term is for the front of the package with the art work. It appears to have some form of mechanical hinge that is not obvious at first glance but does appear to be quite cleverly designed and functional. 

After rotating the artwork I am able to see the writing, note that clicking the writing does not open a new screen or advance the text. I found that after reading the first page of text I was able to repeat the actions that moved the artwork aside and revealed the text to advance through to the next screen. 

The bookmark function does not seem to be working but I found that I can manually place a chopstick (left over from take out) between the text delivery modules and am able to quickly locate where I left off reading.

I am finding the tactile experience of this delivery system to be oddly rewarding and surprisingly portable.


----------



## miatapaul

Yea, the Nook can be rooted, and one of the benefits is that it can load Kindle app and it is supposed to work well. I have not yet done it yet. I rooted my first Android phone, but have not done it to the newer one as I have not felt the need. I have thought of getting a used nook touch off Craig's list and figured I would see some cheap ones from kids that got them for Christmas but in my area they have not shown up yet. 

I went through the first five chapters last night, really enjoyed it!


----------



## glenndamato

Silvio, what you have is called a "paperback book." It's what ancient peoples used to read before the advent of eBooks and iPads and whatnot. You can see more examples in the Smithsonian!


----------



## Silvio

glenndamato said:


> Silvio, what you have is called a "paperback book." It's what ancient peoples used to read before the advent of eBooks and iPads and whatnot. You can see more examples in the Smithsonian!


Aaaaahh,!
I have heard of such things.

Glenn,
I did just receive the book. I am thoroughly enjoying it. I particularly like your "voice" that you write with.

Cheers!


----------



## JoeDiver

You know you're an avid Kindle (or other ebook) reader when you pick up an actual book...and while reading....you come across an unfamiliar word.... you touch it waiting for it to highlight so you can look it up.....


----------



## TakeFive

I'm up to Chapter 9. Nice read.

I design processes for manufacturing ink jet inks, so paper printing is my bread and butter. On-demand printers like CreateSpace are moving ink jet technology, so I need to root for them.

My oldest son is "working for the enemy" in his Kindle job at Amazon.

However, I REALLY hope that the upcoming Chapman 67 is released in digital form. That thing is too big to lug around.


----------



## TakeFive

I do have another question for Glenn: Did the "supporting characters" in your book know you were going to write a book about your experiences? Did you seek their permission before publishing? If so, at what point did you approach them?


----------



## Silvio

TakeFive said:


> I'm up to Chapter 9. Nice read.
> 
> I design processes for manufacturing ink jet inks, so paper printing is my bread and butter. On-demand printers like CreateSpace are moving ink jet technology, so I need to root for them.


The on demand printer/binders are really neat technology. Politics and Prose in DC has one. I have yet to see it in action but I do enjoy looking at it while my wife browses.


----------



## glenndamato

TakeFive: Joyce and Doug (not their real names) know about the book, but they have not responded since it was published. Joyce took the photo that was used to create the cover, and she is cool with my using it. 

I also disguised the characters Megan, Richard and Loukia so they are not possible to track down. Characters from "InfoData" (not the real name of the company) and some of the characters from the marina have been disguised and combined too. Duffy was that man's real name, however - everything about him is the same as real life. Tweety and Jon and my brother Paul and his wife Katie and their three kids are in the book with their real names. All characters are accurate with respect to their age, appearance, gender, and personal characteristics.

In the US memoir writing is considered a form of free press, so it is not necessary to get someone's permission to include them in a book. However, libel laws still apply - no one was defamed in this book, of course.

It is always true (at least in the US) that you cannot publish a photo of another person for commercial purposes without their expressed permission. This is also strictly enforced. In order to keep this project as simple as possible, I decided early on not to publish anyone else's likeness. The only exception is "Karl," the German guy who went to the top of my mast to unfoul our jib. I don't think he'll have a problem with it!


----------



## JonEisberg

miatapaul said:


> JonEisberg that looks like an amazing place, bet there summer is not very long though! Did you take the photos? The lighting is beautiful and the detail is amazing.


Yes, the pics are mine, thanks...

I'm not sure the season is that much shorter than a place like Maine, actually, the Gulf Stream has a considerable modifying effect on the climate of the south coast. It's certainly long enough to see quite a bit, however. On my trip up there a few summers ago, I didn't leave NJ until almost mid-July, and was back home by Labor Day, and that featured spending 5 days in Lunenberg riding out the passage of a tropical system, a week in the Magdalen Islands, and another 5 days exploring the Bras d' Or Lakes on the way back... Once you get up there, you can see a lot in a couple of weeks, things are pretty close together along the south coast...



Shinook said:


> Looks amazing!
> 
> I read about it a little bit online, the blurb I read indicated the population was < 150 people! How do they take to visitors?


Everywhere I went, the locals were extremely welcoming, and very appreciative of the effort any cruiser will have made to get up there. Francois was one of the only spots that has a dock dedicated to transient visitors, most places you just come alongside the working wharf. This was one of the handful of times in Newfoundland I was in the company of another cruising boat...










As delightful as the inhabited outports are, however, what really fascinated me were the abandoned settlements... The south coast of Nfld has to be one of the best places anywhere, for one who loves exploring ghost towns from a boat... This is the once-thriving outport of Petites...


----------



## sww914

If we'd laid out for you (forum) exactly how much experience, training, and equipment we had and the condition of our boat many of you would have said that we couldn't do what we've already done.
That's OK. 
The awful sh*t that we've been through before we bought this boat would have killed most of you.


----------



## wind_magic

Glenn,

Just curious, I haven't yet had time to read your book, but I was wondering if you had it to do over again is there anything you think you could have done to avoid being on that lee shore before you even had engine problems.

Thank you.

Edit, Jon, love the pictures! Half expected to see Popeye in one of them ..


(and yes, before anyone posts it, I know that the town from the Popeye movie was in Malta ...)


----------



## JoeDiver

Okay Glenn, I finished up the book last night. I've rated and reviewed the book for you at Amazon.

I enjoyed your story and understand that it is, of course, told from your point of view and your perceptions of the events as they occurred.

I found the character of "Joyce" to be difficult to understand. Initially portrayed as an experienced sailor, knowledgable and well connected in the Baja Ha Ha at least, you were eager to have her aboard and benefit from her experience. However, as soon as you set sail, her personality as portrayed was not what I expected. Unless your version of events is somewhat lacking in accuracy, Joyce is an aggressive, angry, psychotic ***** who seems to be very unstable. There doesn't seem to be any reason (as told) for her behavior, reactions to you and situations she was presented with. Personally, I would have put her off the boat first opportunity. I would not tolerate anyone treating me that way, reacting that way, or disrespecting my position on the boat. I don't care how good you are.

I think your experience with "Megan" was more valuable to you than you realize. You go on and on, more than necessary (IMHO) regarding your experience with women over your life. You talk in detail about how they've rejected you repeatedly because of your appearance and physical presence. You state clearly that you're only attracted to young, beautiful and slim women (duh, who isn't?) and will accept nothing less. You were very detailed and brutally honest about your reaction to Megan's physical appearance and your perception of her complete lack of physical beauty, resulting in a complete lack of attraction to her. Therein lies the lesson for you. Think about it.

I'm not attacking you personally or making any judgements about you at all. Please don't take my comments that way. I'm simply telling you how I, as a reader of your book, perceived what you, the author, have written about what you experienced and perceived the given situations. As an author, I would think this is invaluable to you so that in future works you can change how you come across. (or not)

BTW....beautiful women are nice to look at and fun to show off to your friends.....but they're not all that and a bag of chips. I landed one and married her. Biggest mistake of my life and greatest lessoned learned: If you want to be happy, you better like the person inside. That's what really matters. Looks fade quickly and so will your relationship if that's what it's based on.


----------



## glenndamato

Joe,

Thanks for your review!

I put in the material about women and my experiences because it was essential to the story I wanted to tell. It was integral to the experience, and if I left it out or downplayed it it wouldn't have been the same story. Over all of human history, people have dreamed of going to sea as a means of escaping their demons on land. My personal demon was rejection. At sea, instead of leaving the demon behind, it was amplified - and coming at me in both directions, through my own actions as well as the actions of others.

Let me clarify about this "beautiful" woman thing. I probably should have been more clear in the book, but I do not require a woman to be beautiful to date her! In all the dates I have been on, maybe two at the most were in a real sense beautiful. But just like most people, there are women I am attracted to and those I am not. For some reason that is a mystery to me, I am pickier than most other men in my "hotness rank" (probably around a 3/10 when you consider my height, which does not show in photographs). My taste is probably similar to a man around 6' tall, age 35, fairly slender, professionally employed, around a 7/10 hotness rank. The part of my brain that likes women thinks I am THAT GUY. Even now, age 52, even fatter than I was when the story took place (2001-04). 

Strange as it may seem, this is not a choice I deliberately make. It's just the way I am. Nowadays most people accept that gay men were born that way - they do not have a choice (I believe that is so, based on gay men I have known). Likewise, I do not find heavyset, plain women sexually apealing. I do not want to even TRY to sleep with them, much like a gay man rejects the idea of "trying" to sleep with a woman "just to see if he likes it" (although no doubt many have). I find that the idea of sleeping with an unappealing woman has every bit as much appeal as the thought of sleeping with another man! I'm not going to do it.

I wish I could publish a picture of "Megan," but I cannot (I don't want the potential legal hassle). You have to trust me: she was plenty huge, and plenty ugly. Rejecting her does not mean "all I want is beautiful women." I just don't want fat and ugly ones - see the difference? 

My depiction of Joyce was accurate, but in a book, especially a book that is already quite long for a memoir by someone who is not famous or did not participate in an historic event, there isn't room to show "all the rest of it" because it's boring. As a strict rule for writing novels, screenplays and even memoirs, conflict is what drives the story and what makes it fun and interesting to read. It's just the way it is. Ever see the movie or read the book ALIVE - about the Andes survivors in 1971? In the book and in the movie, they are always fighting each other, always screaming, virtually always about to come to fisticuffs! Of course, in reality, 97-percent of the time they all got along fine and cooperated and helped each other. But if you wrote a book or a movie with only 2 or 3 percent conflict, it would be BORING. Unreadable, unwatchable. So far, a few people have complained about Breaking Seas because I did not sail around the world, but no one has ever called it boring.

Again, you have to trust me, in real life, everyone mostly got along fine, and Joyce and Megan taught me a lot about sailing and blue water cruising planning. But I did not want to write that kind of book where the characters plod through one dull scene after another, telling each other what they aleady know, "like in real life." Even for a true story that is meant to be honest and complete, the conflicts must drive everything. 

Hope that helps to clarify! Keep those questions coming!

Glenn


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## glenndamato

Wind magic,

Thanks for buying the book! I probably let myself get way too close to Cedros to begin with. I should have given it a much wider space, should have sailed further westward and not cut it so close - even though that would have added miles. And of course, I should have test fit the impellers! 

I probably would have been alright if I had passed it on the east side too. In the autumn there's a limited chance of wild Santa Ana winds and I didn't want to risk it - read that out of a cruising guide. If the cruising guide didn't tell me that, I would have probably passed to the east, lost the wind and motored. I had enough fuel left to make Tortugas. 

In retrospect, I might have waited until May, single handed the boat to Hawaii, then came back to California from there. The trip would have been a lot longer of course but probably safer and more comfortable - out of the shipping lanes, away from the rocks, and mostly steady trade winds. The Baja Bash from Cabo to CA is just a rought route to single hand!

Please let me know if you have any other questions!

Glenn


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## TakeFive

I realize that every person is attracted to different things, and Glenn is who he is, and should not be expected to change based on anyone else's comments, especially these semi-anonymous Internet comments. 

But FWIW, I believe that the brain is the most important sex organ, and (especially as i have grown older) the attribute of a woman's "sexiness" is a complex relationship between her appearance and personality. The two need to fit together right to provide an attraction.

This is especially true as women grow older, where so many of the ones who were "hot" in their 20s age poorly, and many of the ones who were "plain" in their 20s somehow took care of themselves and became gorgeous, (sometimes curvy) women. To the extent that Glenn is willing to consider changing his attitude, I would encourage him to realize that he's in his 50s now, and the days of lusting after the stereotypical "hot" 20-somethings (and even 30-somethings) are over. The criteria for a sexy 40-something woman are very different, and he should get with the times.

On thing that I think is a universal truth - "high-maintenance" women are a turn-off, especially around boats. And, in my distant, vague memories from dating, it seems in retrospect that a surprisingly high percentage of the "hot" ones were very high maintenance.


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## CrazyRu

did anyone besides me find the book boring? I read it just after "The Boy behind the Gate" gay circumnavigator's story and I told myself that I have to cut on all this junk.
Too much personal drama... If i want a sailing drama, I would read one of Seychalle stories (by Christine Kling), her heroine is cute.
Men are boring....

CrazyRU, broke solo guy on a small boat.


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## glenndamato

TakeFive, we have completely different outlooks on this topic. I do not find 40-something or 50-something women attractive at all. Not even a little bit. None of them. 

It may have something to do with the fact that I enjoy - no, relish - my freedom and independence. For me, personally, the only reason it would make sense to get married is to start a family of my own. That means someone around 30, plus or minus 5 years, who wants children, and who I find attractive. That said, given my current age and physical traits, I'm more likely to win the California Lotto Jackpot than see that scenario materialize (especially since I don't play the lotto!). So I don't wasts time thinking about it. It was not to be. 

I talked to my brother on the phone yesterday - he's been working as a civilian contractor in Afghanistan - first contract. He's dreaming of what he'll be doing in a couple of years and it sure doesn't involve working for someone else in the States. I'm going to get another boat over the next year or so, do it right this time (or closer to right!) - maybe something like a Catalina 36 or even something in the 45 foot range, about 10 years old - deals abound because of the economy. We'll sail it from LA or SF to Hawaii, bring two or three friends with us, hang out on the islands for a few months, then maybe hit the Puget Sound, Vancouver BC etc. I just feel fortunate to be able to do something like that, given the fact we are just one generation removed from an economic level where everyone left school at 16 and worked a manual, typically low paying job their entire lives. God bless America!


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## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> ...and the days of lusting after the stereotypical "hot" 20-somethings (and even 30-somethings) are over...


Dude - what planet are you on?


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## TakeFive

smackdaddy said:


> Dude - what planet are you on?


Yes, out of context it sounds silly, because my sloppy wording did not convey the message I was trying make. I was referring to the unlikelihood of someone in his 50s successfully waiting for a hot 20-something to have a serious relationship with. Aside from philandering millionaires who "trade in for a new model" every 5 years, how many 50-somethings do you see having serious relationships with 20-somethings? It really doesn't happen with ordinary people.

As for looking and lusting, well, I realize that's a different matter and my words were not accurate.


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## smackdaddy

Here are my take-aways...

1. Who cares who Glenn's attracted to and who he isn't? All this crap about him needing to "change his attitude" and settle for fatter, uglier chicks? Please. It's his freakin' love life. And he's very open about the fact that he's got none, knows the reason why, and is cool with it. In the end, Glenn, from the book you strike me as the typical older single dude whose ways are so set that you'll probably never find a chick that you'll be able to truly tolerate. The fact that you recognize that your standards are likely impossibly high - and are okay finding a fun life outside of romance is cool. More power to you.

2. Composting heads are stupid. Sure...it's all about the "no smell" allure. Of course, when you're rolling in four people's sewage on your cabin sole, spitting that grit out of your mouth...well, I'll live with a bit of funk from my standard head thanks.

3. I was all about the Pudgy. They seem like the Swiss Army Knives of tenders. Just sounds like they don't work too well at any of the functions.

4. I'll never, ever, ever buy a full-keel boat.

5. I think you're pretty awesome for what you've done and your attitude about it all. Head over to the BFS shop (link in my sig) and register an account. I'll send you a free BFS hoodie. Hanging out on that sprit in a blow without getting flicked? You definitely deserve it dude.


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## davidpm

smackdaddy said:


> Should really go where people are. Has anyone posted this on CF? If not, I'll hook Glenn up over there. I can also pimp it over at SA in the cruising section.
> 
> It's a good read. And I love it that he's published this completely on his own. Very cool.


I was counting on the fearless smack to brave the AS folks.


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## glenndamato

That's a good one, Smackdaddy. I'm baffled when people are shocked (shocked!) that someone as "old" as me, 52, expresses attraction to 20-somethings and 30-somethings. Some people react as if it were really strange, practically a perversion. 

Forty years ago a 55-35 relationship was very, very much in style. Steve McQueen and Ali MgGraw in the original The Getaway, to name just one example of many. 

A hundred years ago the perfect ages for a newly married middle class couple was 45 and 25. He was mature and financially and professionally successful. She was young and pretty and the ideal physical age to have children. Millions of couples with that age spread married - which was why there were so many widows during the 1930's and 40's.

I'm mystified as to why a 50-something man would be motivated to marry a 50-something woman. I'm not saying it's "wrong" of course, but it's a mystery to me why the man would be motived (or a woman with a successful career who is self-supporting). They won't have children. They won't be approved for adoption. Is the man just too lazy to cook and clean for himself? I don't understand.


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## glenndamato

Smack and TakeFive:

Your're right, it's not a topic we're going to make progress on. I am not "waiting" for a 20 or 30-something anyhow - I do not expect to ever date again, and I am cool with that. I have a tremendous amount of time and energy (and money!) at my disposal, not to mention freedom. I'm happy with the way things turned out, and I feel grateful and fortunate for what I have. Hallmark is NOT gonna make a card with this, but the truth is some people can be happy without a lover.

Composting heads can work very well on a boat with two caveats: one or two people aboard, and no one pisses into the main tank. If those two limitations can be met, I believe it is a far better option than the traditional hoses, valves, and tank.

I wouldn't buy a Portland Pudgy again. I was attracted to it because they marketed it as a lifeboat/tender. This way, I figured, I wouldn't need a $6000 liferaft. In reality, two people at the most would fit in that thing under realistic conditions. And I would not want to have to wrestle it into the water in any kind of sea while my vessel was on fire or sinking fast. With four people aboard, I had to get the liferaft anyhow.

Thanks for the BFS hoodie Smack! You dah man!


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## glenndamato

If anyone is kind enough to start a thread on another site and someone has a question for me, please let me know! I appreciate it!


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## TakeFive

Well we disagree about a few things, and some of my opinions probably sounded too closed-minded, so I won't try to defend them.

You seem like a decent guy, and you wrote a good book. I really respect you for getting out there and trying to live the dream, and even more so for changing course once you realized the dream wasn't cracked up to what you thought it would be. You obviously learned a lot about sailing - and about yourself - in the process. And it sounds like life has been OK in the ~10 years since the events in the book took place.

I look forward to having you hang around here for awhile.


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## glenndamato

Thanks TakeFive. I wish I had known about this site back in 2003-04!


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## JoeDiver

smackdaddy said:


> 1. Who cares who Glenn's attracted to and who he isn't? All this crap about him needing to "change his attitude" and settle for fatter, uglier chicks?


I haven't read through all the responses....but I must have missed this one...who suggested that?


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## CalebD

glenndamato said:


> If anyone is kind enough to start a thread on another site and someone has a question for me, please let me know! I appreciate it!


Glenn,

I essentially cut and pasted David's post here to other forae. 
At Anything-Sailing I actually defended you from a coincidental happenstance: Newbie with no experience buys big boat

There is not that much traffic there but they are an interesting group of folks.

I also posted it over at sailboatowners.com which got a few replies: Newbie with no experience buys big boat - SailboatOwners.com

I did finish reading your book on my kindle a day or so ago. I did enjoy reading it as I'm sure many other boaters would. All in all, congrats on accomplishing what you were able to, Ha Ha and back single handed.


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## glenndamato

Thanks Caleb!


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## glenndamato

I forget exactly who, Joe, but I get that advice all the time! All told, it's a pretty fruitless topic, but it can be interesting to see cognative dissonance at work, how people can hold two mutually exclusive beliefs at the same time, without noticing they contradict. In this case, 1. Beauty is subjective, in the eye of the beholder, and 2. YOU must define YOUR notion of beauty the same as other people. If other men consider an overweight 50-something woman beautiful, you must also. 

Can't both be true at the same time, yet people accept them side by side. I guess it's an old evolutionary quirk inside our heads: people do not like to see functional humans without a mate, and all reasons for it are rejected out of hand.


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## LauderBoy

smackdaddy said:


> In the end, Glenn, from the book you strike me as the typical older single dude whose ways are so set that you'll probably never find a chick that you'll be able to truly tolerate.


I can actually relate to this pretty well, and I got the same sort of vibe from the book.

When I'm around most married couples I couldn't imagine being treated like the guy is being treated by the woman in the arrangement. Though oddly it's really easy for me to have women friends, it's expected/can be easy to set boundaries in a friendship.

Something like Joyce trying to set me up with Megan after I made my wishes known on the issue would've totally crossed the line.


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## glenndamato

Lauder: She meant well. Many people can't believe it's possible to be a straight but unattached man and reject a woman - especially if the woman is 10 years younger and blond. They can't believe it. They assume you're just "shy" (uncertain, afraid, inexperienced, whatever) and you just need some social engineering. It's commonly accepted by many people that "a man will scr** anything." And I think that's pretty much true for 90-95 percent of men: they learn their "level of hotness" at an early age, and simply lower their standards until they have a steady mate. The unspoken conviction is that it's "better than nothing." People don't know what to make of a man who doesn't follow this process. I've found they often become extremely angry, for reasons obscure to me. This is why I was highly uncertainly whether I should put any of that stuff in the book at all. I realized that if left out, the story would be a hollow fabrication.


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## glenndamato

Thanks David - but neither link works from my end.


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## wind_magic

Nothing wrong with staying single. 

Life is good.


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## glenndamato

Exactly!


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> Thanks David - but neither link works from my end.


That was caleb not me that posted in the other forums.
Links don't have to work just go to the sites google them and search for the thread.


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## glenndamato

Okay, thanks!


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## rgscpat

Great thread...I'm just trying to find a way to say 'thanks for sharing' that doesn't sound trite, and I really appreciate Glenn staying on board and answering so many questions. It's fascinating how we all not only have different "levels of acceptable hotness" but also how these change for some men with age, but not so much for others.


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## glenndamato

LOL Won't change for me . . . in a few years I will officially be a dirty old man!


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## TomMaine

Hi Glen, I looked up the Downeast 38 in an old book I have. That looked like a good choice for a first time buyer for what you had in mind. But the leaks, that wouldn't work for me either. Nothing worse than deck leaks. 

I'm curious though. It sounds like you're considering a repeat. But at times, it sounds like living aboard isn't your thing either. 

Would you go with crew next time or would you go alone? 

Seems you'd have to sort out, A-you like being alone on a boat traveling, or B- you'd miss the companionship you have in day to day life you're in right now.


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## Waterdawg43

wind_magic said:


> Nothing wrong with staying single.
> 
> Life is good.





glenndamato said:


> Lauder: She meant well. Many people can't believe it's possible to be a straight but unattached man and reject a woman - especially if the woman is 10 years younger and blond. They can't believe it. They assume you're just "shy" (uncertain, afraid, inexperienced, whatever) and you just need some social engineering. It's commonly accepted by many people that "a man will scr** anything." And I think that's pretty much true for 90-95 percent of men: they learn their "level of hotness" at an early age, and simply lower their standards until they have a steady mate. The unspoken conviction is that it's "better than nothing." People don't know what to make of a man who doesn't follow this process. I've found they often become extremely angry, for reasons obscure to me. This is why I was highly uncertainly whether I should put any of that stuff in the book at all. I realized that if left out, the story would be a hollow fabrication.





LauderBoy said:


> I can actually relate to this pretty well, and I got the same sort of vibe from the book.
> 
> When I'm around most married couples I couldn't imagine being treated like the guy is being treated by the woman in the arrangement. Though oddly it's really easy for me to have women friends, it's expected/can be easy to set boundaries in a friendship.
> 
> Something like Joyce trying to set me up with Megan after I made my wishes known on the issue would've totally crossed the line.


At 49 now, I have watched my single friend get married, then go through terrible divorces - some get remarried and do it all over again. I see no sense in setting for the wrong person just to "be with someone" and both people end up loosing a lot, making some lawyers richer and kids unhappy.

I have no plans on getting married, I also have no plans on not. Here is my philosophy....



> I have an Open Door Policy. You are welcome to come in and join me and you are welcome to leave.


By living like this I get to meet many fantastic women, learn about them as they learn about me and then when the time comes we part ways. Interesting side effect is that I remain friends with 99% of them and we each have only great things to say about each other. No reasons to hate and many reasons to love. Not only can I be truly happy for them when they do meet their lifelong partners, I can, as then can, offer good advice that is unbiased. How often can you get that?

By the way, I also have a theory on marriage and children. Have then young enough that you can still adapt to their needs. I am too old to "sacrifice" anything for children. My dogs, sure! Children, never! Though I do love my nieces and nephews and admire my siblings for being able to do that. Just not for me and last I checked, humans were not on the endangered species list.


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## glenndamato

Tom,

In hindsight I should have bought a medium-displacement boat, something like a Catalina 36, instead of the Downeast. I had read in books that heavy displacement boats would lie ahull much better than fin keels, and since I fully expected to round the Cape of Good Hope and sail the Roaring Forties single-handed, I figured I'd better go for a heavy displacement full keel!

If I could establish some kind of income stream writing (novels, non-fiction, anything) I will consider living aboard a large, comfortable boat, maybe something like a Catalina 46 or a sailboat in that range. I don't have a house or dependents, so this would be relatively simple to do if I could just generate a reliable income to replace the darn job!

I would seasonaly sail between California, Mexico, Hawaii, and maybe Puget Sound. I'd be wiser with respect to crew, as people you don't know might mean well but they can be highly unreliable with respect to actually going (detailed in the book). I've got maybe 15 or so friends and family who swear up and down they would help me sail from the west coast of the US or Mexico to Hawaii, even after I told them they would need to set aside at least a month. In reality, it would be amazing if even two or three out of the 15 or so actually do a voyage like that, with all the sudden reasons that crop up that lock people into their routine ("Well, I really want to, but now is not a good time . . .").

One thing is for sure: after several years of recession, there are incredible deals to be had in boats from good, solid manufacturers, 34-48 feet, in the 10 year-old range. Lots of previous high-rollers are now cash strapped and they want to get out, but there aren't that many serious buyers relative to the supply of boats for sale.

Best reagrds,

Glenn


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## OPossumTX

Silvio said:


> Well crap,
> I ordered a version of this book and now am not sure if it is compatible with my reader. It came in a package that requires some user input, it appears that I must manually "move" the opening "screen", "app", or whatever the technical term is for the front of the package with the art work. It appears to have some form of mechanical hinge that is not obvious at first glance but does appear to be quite cleverly designed and functional.
> 
> After rotating the artwork I am able to see the writing, note that clicking the writing does not open a new screen or advance the text. I found that after reading the first page of text I was able to repeat the actions that moved the artwork aside and revealed the text to advance through to the next screen.
> 
> The bookmark function does not seem to be working but I found that I can manually place a chopstick (left over from take out) between the text delivery modules and am able to quickly locate where I left off reading.
> 
> I am finding the tactile experience of this delivery system to be oddly rewarding and surprisingly portable.


I also have tried using a chop stick to maintain a position marker but this makes a bump in the TDM (Text Delivery Module). It also tends to gouge various parts of my anatomy if I carry the TDM in one of my hip pockets.

I find that the little sleeve package the chopsticks come in makes an excellent place marker for TDMs of this sort. I prefer the ones with an open end rather than the tear open variety. They are usually more colorful and made of better paper.

Have FUN!
O'


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## Jbaffoh

I read the Kindle version, and it was a good read.

To whoever doubted the Joyce character, I thought she was probably the most realistic character in the book. I know, and have worked with, a dozen of her. As I read, I saw her face and heard her voice.

I vehemently disagree with Glenn's assessment of standard marine heads and holding tanks, however. My standard Jabsco hand-pumped head is odorless. The key is a little simple maintenance--i.e., ensure no crap is left in the hoses by flushing everything into the tank. Pump out the tank regularly, and never leave anything in it for long periods of disuse. Before any period of disuse, pump fresh water through the hoses (I have a valve that allows me to pump from the head sink to the toilet). Rinse out the tank with fresh water a couple times, and, once clean, leave it full of fresh water, not dry. This keeps any residual paper or crap from hardening into paper mâché, which will eventually cause clogs. It's much simpler than maintaining compost and avoiding the runs, and I don't even have that Home Depot garden smell.


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## Jbaffoh

Not sure why this app garbled "paper mache"


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## glenndamato

Thanks for the info, Jbaffoh. And thanks for reading the book!

I believe it also matters how well your holding tank is ventilated. The familiar sour, "gas station restroom" smell found on too many cruising boats (where the san system sees heavy use) is the result of anearobic bacteria: bacteria that thrive as long as there is no oxygen. Let plenty of air flow through the holding tank, and when it swashes around the waste is aerated and the anearobic bugs die - the aerobic bugs don't stink.

You're right - what's in the hoses matters a lot. To prevent that common anaerobic stink, you'll have to make sure all guests do what they are supposted to do. Flushing the hoses clear of waste, every time, means the holding tank will fill up faster in port or at anchor.

Composting heads are not perfect, but I feel they are a viable alternative, with a couple of caveats. The two most wonderful things about them are: no pump outs, ever, and no possibility of anything getting clogged, ever - no hoses, pumps, or valves at all. 

I like the idea of being able to get rid of the sanitary waste as solid waste, with the rest of the garbage, ashore. No need to visit a pumpout station, and no need to dump a holding tank into the pristine waters off a beach or in a lagoon. 

Couple that with the SPACE you save by not having a holding tank and the associated plumbing. 

The AirHead system and similar marine composting tanks have greatly increased in price since I bought mine almost ten years ago. Then again, almost everything in the West catalog has greatly increased in price - if you're installing a totally new system, I'd guess that the composting unit would be less expensive, total, than a good quality standard head with the assoicated tank and plumbing.

Thanks for the input!


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## Jbaffoh

You win on the space argument. And since my tank is well ventilated, perhaps that helps with the smell. But it's hard to understand why pump-outs are a problem. I've never spent more than a week on my boat without crossing the 3-mile line offshore at least twice, and pumping is simply a matter of flipping on the macerator pump for a few minutes. As for environmental concerns, the two humans on my boat produce less waste combined than any one of the wall-to-wall sea lions or dolphins in So Cal, much less the run-off from the zillions of birds. I don't feel any need to apologize to Mother Earth for being one more mammal, albeit a small one, crapping in the sea.


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## glenndamato

I was thinking in terms of avoiding the necessity of pulling up the hook or leaving the dock just for a pump out.


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## Silvio

Glenn,
Just finished the book. I enjoyed it quite a bit. 
Something about the way you wrote regarding the character of Joyce made her very real and almost familiar to me. Your interactions with her seem to have been very intense and I have the impression that she definitely left her mark on you. It would be very interesting to hear how she would tell the story of your trip. Have you ever heard her tell her version of the story? Not saying that as if there would be controversy, rather it would be fun to hear how two people perceive the same event in different ways. 

I hope you continue to sail as it sounds like there is so much that you enjoy about sailing. There are plenty of intermediate places between "leaving it all behind and circumnavigating" and "not sailing at all." 

Coastal cruising for weeks or months at a time is very rewarding with enough challenges to satisfy many sailors and with the benefit of never being far from internet, news papers, and all the convenience of shore life. Well, at least here on the east coast I find coastal cruising to be that way. My own long term cruising goals do not extend beyond the Virgin islands, at least not yet. 

Hopefully you'll stick around sailnet, there are some good folks here, some world cruisers, many day and weekenders, and plenty of us coastal folks. 

Cheers!


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## glenndamato

Silvio,

Thanks for reading the book! Glad to hear you liked it. I don't care what Joyce says, my version is the way it actually happened!! ; > )

Seriously, I have only been in touch with Joyce a few times over the past eight years (the voyage in the book took place in 2004). She is still sailing actively. Joyce is not her actual name, by the way - all of the characters except Duffy, Jon, Tweety and my brother and his family underwent a name change. Everything else about them - age, appearance, personality, is as it was in real life. 

Joyce knows about the book and we swaped a couple of emails but after the book came out she did not respond any longer. I have an old email for Doug that hasn't worked in a while - he is over 70, and I believe he has health problems. I have tried to make him aware of the book but I don't know if I got through.

You're right, sailnet is great - I wish I knew about this in 2002-03-04 - I probably did but it was one of the many things that had to be sacrificed to do more boat work.

I do want to get out there again - writing the book (which I did at the request (demand) of friends) rekindled the old call. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I have a very good tech job, and if I leave it at age 52 I will most likely never see another job like that ever again. That sounds wimpy, I know, but I don't have any assets for my retirement - no real estate, wealthy parents with a will, etc. I have to think about staying out of a state run nursing home, and if you've ever seen one, you'd know why.

If I can just generate an income stream outside of my regular work, I can afford to get something like a Catalina 36 around ten years old for cash (good deals now abound) and live aboard, if I can find a spot on the west coast, and then seasonally migrate between California, Mexico, Hawaii, maybe Puget/Seattle/Vancouver. Gotta have that income stream first, because I don't want to end up indigent (been there, done that). 

Keep in touch!

Following seas,

Glenn


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## mstern

Glen: my copy arrived yesterday. With Snowmageddon approaching, it looks like I may have more time than I'd like to dig in over the weekend. Looking forward to it!


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## LauderBoy

glenndamato said:


> If I can just generate an income stream outside of my regular work, I can afford to get something like a Catalina 36 around ten years old for cash (good deals now abound) and live aboard, if I can find a spot on the west coast, and then seasonally migrate between California, Mexico, Hawaii, maybe Puget/Seattle/Vancouver. Gotta have that income stream first, because I don't want to end up indigent (been there, done that).


This doesn't sound like a bad plan. I've spent the last few years switching my career out to something a little more flexible and it's been a change that's brought more security to my life. I can move around with the boat, pick up work wherever, freelance if I want, afford to not work for months at a time, etc. It's been pretty liberating.

As for the head, I've been using a Nature's Head for about 2 years and love it. No pumpouts, not much fuss. Having the "runs" isn't an issue, the compost actually needs some added water to it now and then. It tends to dry out(even in Florida) and needs some added water. But for some reason it's the added urine which is its bane. Probably because urine is sterile or something and it changes the bacterial process.

I've had a couple incidents where I didn't empty the liquids soon enough and it flowed back into the compost. It's not a fun thing, though in my case it was a pretty quick fix by taking it all out and using a garden hose on the thing. Glenn's experience though is the stuff nightmares are made of :laugher

I've never heard of people having issues with backflow due to boat heel. That's a first. I wonder if they've changed the designs since then. I know on my nature's head the solids trap door also acts to funnel the liquid up to the urine catch when it's closed. It's like a lip that keeps it all flowing forward. But even then that has me wondering about surface tension and whether that'd cause some to back under and down into the solids.

Heh, the stuff us boaters have to think about.


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## glenndamato

I've heard of Nature's Head as an alternative to Air Head. Not sure if competing companies or just two products from the same company.


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## SansaBoat

I, too, just finished Glenn's excellent book (at 1 am this morning!).

A great page-turner, and I think it would be greatly beneficial to all those (like me) that post something like "Thinking of buying a boat and going sailing..." on forums like this.

I'd also like to hear Joyce's side of things. As written, I'd have told her to shove off, but then again, when you need crew, you walk a fine line. The part that was unfair, in my opinion, was how she seemed to threaten finding another boat for the Ha Ha a number of times. 

That would have p!ssed me off. If you commit to doing something, don't threaten to "walk" anytime something isn't to your liking. If she was in such demand, and knew so many other people in that Ha Ha, why wasn't she already on their boats???? Still - she seems like a person I'd sail with, and respect - as long as she didn't pull that demanding bullish_t. I, too, would have done that home-page reset on her laptop, then given her a big long speech about tolerance when she threw a hissy fit about it! Tolerance, Joyce, tolerance.

Thanks again, Glenn. Great read and I'll share it with my land-locked buddies. Anytime you find yourself in Colorado, Lobster dinner is on me!


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## shadowraiths

SansaBoat said:


> I, too, would have done that home-page reset on her laptop


The resetting of her browser home page was hilarious. As was the claim that her puter had been infected with a trojan.


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## glenndamato

Thanks for your comments, SansaBoat! I haven't been able to contact Joyce in a while, but she is aware of the book. She did teach me many, many things about sailing and planning that probably do not come out well or clearly in the book - plus she was very safety minded and serious about sailing (she had completed her USCG master's license requirements at the time except for the days at sea part). She did threaten to walk a couple of times, but she did show up when she needed to, which is much better than people who do the opposite, right? 

Thanks for the invite! Even if lobster (LOL!)

Following seas,

Glenn


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## MedSailor

davidpm said:


> I just finished this book.
> 
> What a fun read. Every couple of months someone asks if they can buy a boat with no experience and do some serious cruising. Not something I would do but everyone is different.
> 
> This guy did it and really barred his soul about what worked and what didn't work.* I'm going to try to get him to join this forum so you animals can tear him up as is your custom*.


Ouch! It hurts because it's true.  I'd like to think that I at least occasionally feed the new sailors with no experience. Well, at least the ones that don't seem like they're about to imminently kill themselves.

Why? Because I have to! In my early 20s I bought a "custom" wooden boat built in 1969 that was donated by the previous owner to the boat broker and had a bilge full of water and moved aboard. I lived on her, tried many times to sink her, and when my IT career died with the dot.com bust I took her sailing for 4.5 months while she had a 8 foot crack in the hull and nothing but underwater epoxy I stuck on with SCUBA gear to keep the water out. 

What can I say, I'm a softy for those that dream big and think that you can leave now, with just about any old boat and don't really need pesky encumbrances like "money" or "experience" or "a seaworthy boat". Of course, I didn't try and cross any oceans on that boat, or with my (non)experience level at the time. That wouldn't have ended well.... 

On the topic of women and attraction, I must say I appreciate your candor Glenn and your insight into your own mind. Kiudos there! I remember once in college a professor asking us about "belief" and what we "believe in". For this point I'm about to make I think you could substitute the words "belief" and "attraction".

He asked us if we thought we came to our own beliefs ourselves or if it was "just something that happened" and that we actually had no control over our own beliefs. 100% of the class agreed that we were in charge of our beliefs. We weighed our choices and believed what we did for good reason!

He then challenged all of us, who were in charge of our own beliefs, to "believe" that the whiteboard was actually green. Not so easy.... Why can't we change our mind and believe it's green? Why can't we suddenly switch political affiliations, or believe or not believe in god? I suspect the same exercise works with attraction just as well.

I'll put in my order for the book tomorrow. Sounds like a good read. Besides, you're a sailor, you're self-published, and you're a sailnetter. Who better to buy a book from than that!

MedSailor

PS For advice about building a passive income stream, try advice from a fellow sailor/live-aboard that is doing it. The Bumfuzzles have written a book on the subject. I got it for Christmas, have read it twice and *IT IS AWESOME.* LINK--> Live on the Margin


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## glenndamato

Thanks MedSailor! That's quite a good looking ketch you have there!

Thanks for your support on Breaking Seas. One of my issues was that back then I was flush with some dot com cash - not enough to be able to buy a boat in good condition of course, but enough to buy one in "okay" condition and spend a lot of time and money "improving" the vessel. There was a fatal flaw that would have cost so much to fix it would hardly be worth it (mentioned in the book).

With respect to women and attraction, I don't agree that qualifies as a "belief" you can change. I think it's more of a predilection, almost like straight/gay/bi. I have changed my beliefs in the religious sense and the political sense - "switched" would be more descriptive - but I cannot imagine suddenly being PHYSICALLY attracted to women I am not at all physically attracted to now - the key word being physical. And the mental-emotional-personal non-physical stuff is not, for me, nearly enough to build a relationship on. I may be a pig, but for me it's physical attraction or singlehood. There are huge personal and financial advantages to being unattached that are downplayed in our society. Many people feel that everyone must be coupled-off and opinions to the contrary are suppressed or not treated seriously. 

I will check out the Bummfuzzles margin book since you mentioned it. I must say, though, that at age 52, living with just a few dollars to my name has no appeal. The Pardy's have written a few books about inexpensive and simple cruising (no reefer for example) but that is to keep costs so low you DO have a nice cash cushion in the bank! People need to have something to fall back on, too, when they are at some point too old to cruise. I don't think it's cool to exhaust your resources sailing around in your 50's and 60's when most folks are still working and then, all of a sudden, at age, say, 68, when health problems become too serious to do ocean cruising (may be later for some people) all of a sudden become a charity burden on relatives and society in general in the medial sense or subsistence sense. Public nursing homes and VA hospitals are no fun at all.

See you around sail net!

Best regards,

Glenn


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## MedSailor

Glenn,

I know I didn't illustrate the point nearly as well as my professor in college once did, but the point was that you can NOT change your own beliefs. It was an interesting discussion and quite an uncomfortable though for most of us. I intended to argue the point that we also can NOT easily just change what we're attracted to.

As for the bums they're no Annie Hill.  They never cooked a single meal until they had kids, and they bought a brand new catamaran to sail around the world the first time they did it. They do recommend lowing your living expenses some, but austere they are not! 

Thanks for the compliment on the boat. She's a Formosa 41 and has good bones. They're a breed with known problems, but they've been around long enough that many of them have already had their problems fixed by someone else. Mine didn't have many "extras" on it, but I'm adding them slowly as time and funds allow.

MedSailor


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## glenndamato

Med: I don't know, probably depends on your exact definition of "belief," which can have some wide latitude. I know many folks who have come 180-degrees on their political beliefs and/or their religious beliefs. Your prof may explain that their "core" beliefs did not change, only how they perceived they should attain them.


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## SailingStNick

Enjoyed the book, Glenn. Great to see the author trading banter with forum members!


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## glenndamato

Thanks SailingStNick! Banter is always good.


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## Smier

My freshly printed copy of your book arrived yesterday, and I just finished reading it a few minutes ago... Well done, I had trouble putting it down, and even laughed out loud a bunch of times! Thanks for sharing your experience, and especially for hanging out the past couple of weeks and discussing it with us. Truthfully, I probably would have never bought it if it weren't for the conversation here. I hope that many others buy it and enjoy it as much as I did! I will gladly give it a positive review over on amazons site also!!!


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## glenndamato

Smier, thanks for your support! It gives me great pleasure to know that people like the book.

Best regards,

Glenn


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## ShoalFinder

Hi Glenn,

I've followed this thread since it first popped up. I just finished your book and I want to tell you how much I thoroughly enjoyed it.

You have a real gift for giving life to your characters. Even now, I chuckle every time I picture a beer-swilling Burt Reynolds. Joyce is someone I can relate to very well. I have known a number of Joyces in my time. I don't know what you could have done any better with Megan. The girl just can't take a hint, apparently. 

You're a tough son of a *****, Glenn. Your entire trip basically sucked and you sucked it up and kept going. Good on you. You sell yourself pretty short, and I don't know why. You demonstrated some very good problems solving and got yourself out of some real pickles by thinking on your feet. I appreciate that you just put yourself out there, warts and all. I found it refreshingly honest.

I left a review on Amazon where I got my Kindle version. I enjoyed the book very much and thought it was worth leaving a review. I buy a lot of books but I don't ever leave reviews. 

Best of luck to you in your current and future endeavors. Please let us know if you get another book published. I'll buy it.


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## glenndamato

Thanks ShoalFinder! I probably would have kept going south and looked for crew in Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta but that boat had a fatal flaw that was impractical (albeit possible) to fix: the hull-deck joint. At sea everything below would get soaked in any kind of heavy weather. That alone made the vessel suitable only for dry coastal cruising.

Thank you for your support on the book! I am writing another in 2013, this one a novel.

Best regards,

Glenn


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## ShoalFinder

For sure, there's no way I'd have continued in that boat. That must have been beyond miserable. Total show-stopper.


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## Bene505

Why'd you have to be such a nice guy on here? Now I'm going to have to read your book. (And I have an e-reader here that I got in a trade-show raffle. Was going to sell it on eBay...)

Regards,
Brad


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## upshift

Nice read, Glenn! Your extreme honesty is greatly appreciated and the line about the giant baby in the cockpit had me laughing. We have a lot in common, although I am definitely a weaker man and would have busted out a bottle of tequila and sadly took Meagan for a ride…

Anyway, I have a question to ask you, or anyone else on here with knowledge, about why your survey didn't catch the leaky problems with the boat. I would have assumed that for the money you paid for the boat that it would be in better shape than it was, or at a minimum your survey should have showed that it wasn't in decent shape. What I am getting at is, shouldn't a saturated deck or weak hull/deck joint be found in a survey?


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## MedSailor

upshift said:


> Anyway, I have a question to ask you, or anyone else on here with knowledge, about why your survey didn't catch the leaky problems with the boat. I would have assumed that for the money you paid for the boat that it would be in better shape than it was, or at a minimum your survey should have showed that it wasn't in decent shape. What I am getting at is, shouldn't a saturated deck or weak hull/deck joint be found in a survey?


Surveys aren't all that great. My boat came with 2 old ones when I bought her and I hired the most recommended surveyor in Seattle to do a 3rd. Hold the three up to the light and practically nothing matches. 

I'd like to say that if you know nothing about boats then they can be really helpful, but based on some of the things they missed on my boat, or just got wrong, or the things that the REALLY missed on my wooden boat, it's not true that they'll save the newbie from trouble.

If you are not already very wise in the way of boats, then get as many experienced opinions as you can. Get a survey, have experienced friends look at it, and also check online for your make and model of boat and find their flaws.

With the advent of the internet, unless it's a brand new boat, odds are that many others before you have already found and dealt with your prospective boat's flaws. I bet you could figure out exactly which years Catalina got their Catalina 30 right and which years to stay away from just by using google.

MedSailor

PS My anti-surveyor sentiment comes at a time when my insurance company wants me to haul out and have a surveyor go over my boat. I already know exactly what's wrong with the boat and what's right with it. I'm not happy about paying a $urveyor to get it all wrong and write it up for the insurance company...


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## schelli

Absolute best tale!


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## ratherbediving

Hi Glenn--

I also bought your book (Kindle version) based on what I read here and just finished it-- was a fun read! It's really cool to be able to have the author respond to people on this thread. I was curious too about the survey... it sounded like perhaps you thought it wasn't such a good thing that the surveyor and your broker hit it off so well... do you think the surveyor maybe didn't do his job or do you think this is really something that any surveyor would have missed?


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## p_everette

Just finished the book last night, good read. Reminded me of some fond and not so fond memories getting my first sailboat from Trinidad to St. Thomas. (mostly single handed)


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> it's almost impossible for the owner to cover up ALL the telltale signs. There will be heavy mildew under the cushions. The bilge may show watermarks high up. The lockers will look like they've been filled with soggy mess - or are ALL the lockers repainted? Hmmm. My main point is the usual "hose test" will not tell you much. If ports or hatches leak, they probably only need some adjustment or a new gasket.


1. Glenn, Did the survey pickup on the leaks?
2. If a boat was not heavaly sailed or was recently refurbished is their any survey techniques that would expose the leaks. I'm sure you have talked to a lot of people about this.
3. You said you thought that the core was getting saturated from the hull deck joint. As far as I know the core material does not extent to the hull deck joint. It is solid at the very edge of the boat.
Is it possible that you had wet core from deck mounted items like hand-rails etc that leaked. 
You can typically find hull-deck leaks by drips down the inside of the hull not by leaks directly over berths.
Course if you are healed enough and the hull-deck joint leaks it could drip inboard and not follow the hull.


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## mstern

Finished the book last night. A terrific read. I highly recommend this book. What I liked so much was that it focusses on the journey, not the destination.

Well, done Glenn.


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## Jbaffoh

Perhaps because there never was a destination. Even the Ha-ha and Cabo were driven by others, and not Glenn's desire to arrive there.

It's a well-written book about a clueless neophyte who learned a few things along the way. But I'm not convinced that now, nearly 10 years later, he was left with fully accurate conclusions about his ordeal.

One Ha-ha does not an expert make. Yet now he seems entrenched in conclusions about his boat and sailing that were formed, and cast in the stone of his personal dogma, when he was still a beginner at the conclusion of his voyage. Dude has a ton to learn.

Kudos for the candor, kudos for the writing style and voice. But the oft-repeated boilerplate lines here in response to earnest questions are off-putting. I think he has yet to learn how he and his boat let him down. For now, his heels seem dug in and he's sticking with some questionable stories. Whatever.

I don't regret the day I spent reading the book. But I do regret coming here and reading lines from his book being regurgitated or paraphrased in response to questions from his readers. We read the book! Yet it's obvious many answers lie outside it's 4 corners.


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## davidpm

Well JB I suspect Glen has a pretty good idea of where his skills and experience are a little thin. 
Would you mind some specifics about what conclusions he came to that you disagree with?


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## ShoalFinder

It's his book, his story, about his boat and his adventure. It's not a sailing textbook.


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## glenndamato

Jbaffoh: I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any measure. That's why I', wavering over buying another boat within the next year or two. It's not an obligation to take likely. And unless the sailor is so rich they can afford a new, pristine yacht, or hire people to upkeep and upgrade and older yacht, it will eat up vast amounts of time and energy.

I'm not sure what you mean by "boilerplate responses." Please understand that just like everyone else I have time constraints and I can't write elaborate and detailed responses to each person.

I could have make the book more detailed but it was already quite long for a memoir about a not-famous person who did not participate in history. For example, my three year circumnavigation was completely planned out, including stops and approximate dates. I planned to winter over and haul-out in Australia and South Africa. I even spoke to someone in Sydney about the possibility of temp employment as an IT consultant.

I probably emphasized interpersonal conflicts in the book, but I did that to make it more readable and be able to get people to the non-interpersonal conflict parts. I disagree that the story was "driven by others." It was my decision to return to San Diego, and it was a sound decision. Trying to single-hand across the South Pacific in a wet boat, after knowing I was already lonely and information-starved in Cabo, and understanding how poorly suited I was for third-world living, I would make the same decision again today.

If and when I do cruise again, it will be seasonal travel between California, Hawaii, and Puget/Vancouver. 

Hope that helps clarify -

Best regards,

Glenn


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## glenndamato

David: The survey did not pick up or test for leaks, and I probably would have said "I don't care, because I'm going to replace all the hatches and ports anyhow."

I noticed that even small amounts of rain (or even a heavy dew!) would immediately result in significant quantities of water entering below - and I am 100-percent sure it was not from condensation. I may be "all wet," but my rather thin theory was that the plastic deck core got saturated so any incoming leaks would push out moisture into the cabin, through the many hundreds of staples that punctured the inner cabin top glass.

Best,

Glenn


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## caberg

Just finished this on my kindle.

The story is light and easy. I particularly liked the descriptions of sail gear, hardware and handling from Glenn's novice perspective, completely free from any sort of notions of superiority. He was able to break down some of this technical information and tell it like it is in simple terms.

The underlying premise of the story felt a little awkward and canned to me. Basically, the sailing adventure came about because Glenn is too unattractive to ever find a wife and have children (goal #1 in life), so he settles for buying a boat and going sailing (back up goal). He really belabors these points with a lot of detail about failed dating attempts, his unattractiveness, and his refusal to compromise his standards. To me, it seems like this was added to try and make the book more of a plot-driven story, but I don't think it was necessary.

Lastly, one of my big pet peeves with kindle edition books are the typos, and this edition had many. It also showed dashes (--) as hyphens (-) which made for some awkward sentences, especially since Glen uses a lot of dashes in his writing.

All in all, well worth the 3.99 on my Kindle and I do commend Glenn for writing a book that people are reading, which is extremely difficult in today's age of self publishing.


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## manhattan08

Glenn - I thoroughly enjoyed the book and have recommended it to a number of friends. 

Have you considered having the book reviewed by someone at Cruising Outpost, the old Latt & Att. magazine? I am sure that they could put a review of your book in the magazine. 

Chris


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## glenndamato

Thanks for your comments, caberg. You're right - I need to redo the Kindle formatting. The hard copy from CreateSpace is much better. I need to base the new Kindle edition on the pdf doc used by CreateSpace. No easy way to do that - the technology is quite new.

To clarify, it wasn't that I was "too ugly to get a mate," it was that I was "too short and fat to get a mate I would find appealing." Big difference! I don't think I'm ugly at all - but I have found (big surprise) pretty girls don't like fat guys the same height they are, at least if they're not millionaires. 

I did feel this was vital to the story. First, if not for the repeated rejections I experienced in 2000 and 2001 (the drive-by rejection being an example) I would not have bought the boat. Second, I thought there was a nice degree of irony how my voyaging did not allow me to escape rejection, but instead sort of amplified it and even turned it around. To me, rejection and disappointment were intertwined with the core story of outfitting the vessel and actually making the voyage. I tried to be careful not to overdo the non-sailing part, but there will be differences of opinion as to how much was appropriate.

Best regards,

Glenn


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## glenndamato

Manhattan: Glad you liked the book! Cruising Outposts? Let me check that out - thanks for the tip! Maybe it's still run by the old Poo Bah!

Best,

Glenn


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## LauderBoy

Yeah. I spent my entire 30's trying to make myself into what society would consider "proper husband material" with a lot of failed dates and relationships to show for it. Three years back a couple weeks after kayaking down to Cayo Costa(with an ex girlfriend who had broken up with me months prior) I was on this date with a girl I had hit it off with on Match or OkCupid or some other site. The restaurant was too loud, she looked a little bored, and my mind kept wandering back to my Cayo trip and seeing this beautiful sailboat in the harbor. Over the last couple weeks I'd wondered what it'd be like living on that sailboat. It'd popped up in my head a lot and when this cute late 20-something thing kept talking on about this or that all I could think of was "I really don't want to be here".

It was this weird, strange almost depressing feeling that had this underlying "Now what the hell do I do with myself" undercurrent. 

So I go home, surf Yachtworld, get a Match email from the girl saying the usual "You're not what I'm looking for, good luck.", barely read it, and that weekend I'm taking sailing lessons. One month later I threw most everything I owned away and moved into a hotel. A month after that I'm an owner of a 32ft sailboat and prepping her for moving aboard.

So Glenn's method of "starting out" sort of resonated with me. It's one of those life points where you hit this stark realization that "**** isn't going to work out like you planned", so you throw away a lot of who've you tried to be all those years and set off in a completely new direction.


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> David: The survey did not pick up or test for leaks, and I probably would have said "I don't care, because I'm going to replace all the hatches and ports anyhow."
> 
> I noticed that even small amounts of rain (or even a heavy dew!) would immediately result in significant quantities of water entering below - and I am 100-percent sure it was not from condensation. I may be "all wet," but my rather thin theory was that the plastic deck core got saturated so any incoming leaks would push out moisture into the cabin, through the many hundreds of staples that punctured the inner cabin top glass.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Glenn


Sorry about worrying this leaky boat issue like a dog with a bone but since is ended up being one of two significant issues that ended the trip and was not apparent from the beginning I'm trying to extract as much useful information out of your experience as possible. 
I'm sure none of us want to end up with a leaky boat and you surely don't want to either.

I'm very surprised that some of our more experienced boat repair people haven't commented on your use of 5200.

I have a theory that perhaps 5200 actually caused the boat to leak even more that it did before you "fixed" it.
5200 is an amazingly strong adhesive. If there are two parts sealed with 5200 on a deck and for any reason, even expansion and contraction due to two different materials, something has to give. The adhesive will not give, it is too strong, so another crack forms creating a worse leak than before.

The bedding compound that should be used is butal tape which never gets hard and never leaks but allows significant movement.

If you 5200 two pieces of fiberglass together then force them apart I believe that the 5200 will not fail first. The gelcoat or fiberglass itself will separate first.

Can any experienced boat repair people confirm this theory?
Mainesail, are you there?

Glenn if you contributed to causing leaks by improper use of space age adhesive I'm sure you would want to know about it.

*Second*

During your refit you said you replaced all the ports.
Did you remove everything from the deck, hand, rails, winches, tracks, everything and rebed them?

The reason I'm worrying this diagnosis is that re-bedding *everything * is something that is well known has to be done every 10 to 20 years or leaks will develop.

The hull-deck joint on the other hand will last as long as the boat if it was done right from the beginning as far as I know.


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## glenndamato

Great post, LauderBoy. I hear you. Me, I'm a shallow SOB. It's not that I'm ugly, it's that I don't want anyone remotely like me in terms of body type. "Not want" is not just a preference, like "I don't want strawberry ice crea, I'd rather have chocolate," it means I'm not attracted to them sexually, at all. To me, body size and shape are where sex appeal resides. And no one is going to change my mind by denouncing me as superficial. I'd much rather be called every name in the book than be legally trapped in something I really didn't want to begin with.

Men are forbidden to express these ideas. I'm glad to see the book spark these sorts of discussions!

Best,

Glenn


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## glenndamato

davidpm: No, I didn't rebed all deck hardware, but the list of deck hardware I did not rebed is short: three of the four teak handrails, the tracks, and hardware associated with the staysail. Keep in mind I haven't seen this boat in almost nine years, so I am remembering as best as I can but it may be imperfect.

The VOLUME of water getting below was what got me. It was not from the "big"holes: the two deck hatches and the ten new bronze ports. I forward deck hatch did not leak after it was properly adjusted. There were no clear, obvious entry points - the water was just "there," mainly appearing in lockers and the bilge, and the hull-deck joint is the only place I could think of, mainly because you can't directly see it at all in the DE38.

Tied up to the dock, during California's "dry" season (no significant rainfall), a heavy dew or a 15-min drizzle would NOT result in any wetness below. However, once the boat was "wet for the season" (after the first heavy rains in December), at that point even a heavy dew or a 15-min drizzle WOULD result in significant new wetness below: cushions, lockers, etc. This is why I came up with the "saturated foam core" theory.


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## MedSailor

davidpm said:


> I'm very surprised that some of our more experienced boat repair people haven't commented on your use of 5200.
> 
> 5200 is an amazingly strong adhesive. If there are two parts sealed with 5200 on a deck and for any reason, even expansion and contraction due to two different materials, something has to give. The adhesive will not give, it is too strong, so another crack forms creating a worse leak than before.


Ok, I'll bite. 5200 had nothing to do with Glenn's problems. I've used over 3 CASES of 5200 in my day. Most of it was used below the waterline to keep water out of the seams of the hull of my 31' leaking lapstrake boat. The rest was used (since I bought it by the case) to bed hardware, seal hatches, fill in rotten spots in the deck, and spread on my toast.

5200 has all sorts of legends surrounding it, and few are deserved. My favorite is the tripe that was reproduced in a "West Advisor" article in a West Marine magazine about 5200 holding a keel on a sailboat. Tried that, twice, it's bollocks! (photos available on request). I can tell you that a bead of 5200 has the tensile and compression strength of a gummy-worm.

It's adhesion may be good, but it's still a rubbery flexible caulk. It will expand and contract, flex and all that. My boat's planks flexed quite a bit and the rubbery stuff stuck to the hull, flexed along with it, and didn't tear any wood out.

Most of the legend that separates 5200 from all the other polyurethanes is just ill-deserved folklore.

MedSailor


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> davidpm:
> The VOLUME of water getting below was what got me. It was not from the "big"holes: the two deck hatches and the ten new bronze ports. I forward deck hatch did not leak after it was properly adjusted. There were no clear, obvious entry points - the water was just "there," mainly appearing in lockers and the bilge, and the hull-deck joint is the only place I could think of, mainly because you can't directly see it at all in the DE38.


Leaks can be maddening, I've been there.
As far a volume goes it is amazing how much water can come in a small hole especially if it is under pressure.
I was in the gulf stream with a race boat with a retractable sprit. The minimal space between the sprit and hole it slid in was enough to make 7 of us have to bail with buckets.

The fact that the water was in lockers and you couldn't see anything leaking on the deck sure does sound like HD joint.
Bummer because there is no clear way to be sure that is not a problem on another boat.


----------



## SirRedemption

sea turtles mate


----------



## MedSailor

SirRedemption said:


> sea turtles mate


But I don't see any turtles, and I wouldn't say we're friends. 

MedSailor


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## smackdaddy

SirRedemption said:


> sea turtles mate


True - but you never see one hooking up with Gisele Bundchen. Just sayin'.


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## glenndamato

What I learned is that my next boat is going to be of a far more modern design, and 10-15 years old at the most. The modern "tupperware" designs (Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina, etc) minimize hull penetrations and potential leak points and they probably figured out how to make a better H-D join than they did in the 1970's and 80's. I'm going to stay away from "classic" old boats, heavy displacements, full keels, and most importantly: do my own survey (in addition to hiring a professional) and focus on looking for telltale signs of interior leakage.


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## SirRedemption

smackdaddy said:


> True - but you never see one hooking up with Gisele Bundchen. Just sayin'.


Touche :laugher


----------



## SirRedemption

glenndamato said:


> What I learned is that my next boat is going to be of a far more modern design, and 10-15 years old at the most. The modern "tupperware" designs (Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina, etc) minimize hull penetrations and potential leak points and they probably figured out how to make a better H-D join than they did in the 1970's and 80's. I'm going to stay away from "classic" old boats, heavy displacements, full keels, and most importantly: do my own survey (in addition to hiring a professional) and focus on looking for telltale signs of interior leakage.


watch out for some of those newer boats. Most of the ones Ive been in were sinking and thus why I was there.... at 85 dollars an hour.

Laid up thin. too light for bad weather prone to the 'catalina smile' lots of thin teak wood veneered onto marine press wood that bubbles and flakes off when they inevitably encounter water damage

Newports are great examples of an overpriced poorly produced and cheaply made vessel that is real prone to sinking. Last one I worked on was due to the failure of the bilge switch... on the panel not the float switch. The teak wood floor was totaled. motor had to be pickled and removed.

Not to mention the mainsail block that failed in its few short years of time in California of all places.

Or a lot of these newer mega yachts. I was working on a 45 footer that when I would drop into the engine bay the hull would flex I could feel the stringers vibrate if I stepped heavy. That one had less than 150 hours on it less than 2 years old and the water jacket had failed and sucked salt into the turbo, totaled the turbo and went on the destroy the valves. Thousands out of pocket just so they could get it delivered to the people who were buying it from them.

starting to notice a trend here? You could say the same about old boat. Except for the fact that some of those same things are starting to be an issue.... yeah after 30-40 years not 2-10


----------



## The Garbone

Glenn,

Thanks you for the book. I just finished the Kindle version and found it thought provoking. 

As a six year Navy vet and a basic sailing newbie I dove into the book with the thought of it being a good primer and in a way it was. 

Here are a few lessons: 

It has encouraged me to take my little learner boat outside as soon as I can, I need to see how it will handle swells before I commit to any multi week voyages. 

Gadgets are over rated, I need to spend less time concerned with getting a nifty chart plotter and more time under sail practicing technique and knowing my rig. 

Full keels suck as performers, I had a thought about it but now I know.

Watch the weather and plan the windows and alternates paths. 

Airheads suck, just a glorified wag bag. Turning a valve and throwing a switch is much better than toting piss and poo, even if it smells good. 

Thanks for the book, sorry the boat leaked. Sometimes you just get a dud. My suggestion is that next time you live on the beast at least a year on weekends and vacations before leaving the states. ;D


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks Gary! Most of my gadgets actually worked pretty well: my Garmin chart plotter, W-H hydraulic autopilot, refrigeration system, single-sideband radio, and the radar all performed perfectly. This was probably because all were new, carefully installed, and not subjected to several years at sea!

I recommend the AirHead, with two caveats: no more than two people, and when the boat is on a tack that lowers the internal "urine separation lip" inside the unit, female crew must agree to either urinate directly into a bucket (squat technique) or use a special "funnel" device that allows them to squat and then channel the fluid into the AirHead's exterior urine tank. The urine tank is not that hard to empty: most yachties could just empty it down the sink (and hence overboard) while at sea, splash some faucet seawater to remove the odor. 

All this sounds complicated but I believe the sum total is less complicated and troublesome than any traditional system with hoses, valves, one or two pumps, vent, etc. Remember, you never have to unclog a hose or a pump or replace a pump flapper.

I understand that some luxury charter cats are switching over to composting heads. They have to make sure they install one for every two people aboard.

We proved the old adage "sailing and schedules do not mix." I had already heard that many times in my studies, but we "had to" leave Alameda no later than Oct 17 so Joyce could do the Ha-Ha. I knew for a fact there was at least one other boat (much nicer than mine) that would take her on board immediately if I announced we would not Ha-Ha (I met the owners, a nice elderly couple). If Joyce left, I'd lose Richard and likely Megan too, or with Megan I'd have a crew of two and I did not like that idea for a first voyage.

I remember the phrase "sailing and schedules do not mix" going round and round in my head as we sailed under the Gate into the strengthening wind and whitecaps. In a way I was glad because this would "test" the boat and uncover flaws I should know about ASAP (did it ever!).

The reason I chose a full-keel heavy displacement boat was I read from several reliable sources that they can be made to safely lie ahull in almost any kind of sea, while a fin-keel moderate displacement "racer-cruiser" would only lie ahull in a moderate sea, a heavy sea being likely to capsize or pitch-pole the boat sooner or later. I figured I would need to lie ahull a couple of times when I rounded the southern Cape single-handed in a couple of years, roaring 40's and all, so that's why I got a heavy boat!

Best regards,

Glenn


----------



## The Garbone

Lucky for me I have no plans to do the roaring 40s.

I was looking at a Tartan 30 as my first boat but put it off for something cheaper (much). I am leaning towards a Tartan 34 or 37 with a center board to be our next boat. Shallow draft, more flexibility in ports of call.


----------



## glenndamato

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tartan is a high-end boat, lots of teak, high end price range. Sure, a very shallow draft means more flexibility with anchorages. How do you like your Cataline 27? Any leaks of note?


----------



## The Garbone

One window on the Catalina leaks, found out our first night on anchor in a 25 knot wind and rain. Happens to drip right on my pillow in the quarter birth. Go figure. She is a simple boat and sails well, the more we sail her the happier we are with her performance. As a bonus, I will not be able to go full time for another 11 years and the savings of 9 feet or so in slip fees over the next 8 years more than pays for the cost of the 27. 

Tartans vary on teak, I have seen some with lots and some with a little. There was a Blackwatch for sale with teak cabin sides a few hundred miles away last summer before I bought our 27. I think if we had went to look at her in person that would have been it. A beautiful boat. I would prefer one with less teak myself but they do look good. You can get into one for less than $35k here in Florida.


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks for the info Gary. I think the laws of nautical physics say that pillows attract leaks!


----------



## sww914

smackdaddy said:


> Here are my take-aways...
> 
> 1. Who cares who Glenn's attracted to and who he isn't? All this crap about him needing to "change his attitude" and settle for fatter, uglier chicks? Please. It's his freakin' love life. And he's very open about the fact that he's got none, knows the reason why, and is cool with it. In the end, Glenn, from the book you strike me as the typical older single dude whose ways are so set that you'll probably never find a chick that you'll be able to truly tolerate. The fact that you recognize that your standards are likely impossibly high - and are okay finding a fun life outside of romance is cool. More power to you.
> 
> 2. Composting heads are stupid. Sure...it's all about the "no smell" allure. Of course, when you're rolling in four people's sewage on your cabin sole, spitting that grit out of your mouth...well, I'll live with a bit of funk from my standard head thanks.
> 
> 3. I was all about the Pudgy. They seem like the Swiss Army Knives of tenders. Just sounds like they don't work too well at any of the functions.
> 
> 4. I'll never, ever, ever buy a full-keel boat.
> 
> 5. I think you're pretty awesome for what you've done and your attitude about it all. Head over to the BFS shop (link in my sig) and register an account. I'll send you a free BFS hoodie. Hanging out on that sprit in a blow without getting flicked? You definitely deserve it dude.


It's my conclusion that extremely hot women of any age or weight should all learn to find me irresistable even though I'm fat and middle aged. Anything else is just morally wrong!


----------



## The Garbone

Since a lot of folks have chimed in about the lady issues in the book I will add my two pence. 

Glenn, the problem is not who your looking for but were you are looking for them. I grew up in Maine and a lot of the reason I left was the women (on average) looked like cattle. Came down south and the prospects improved. The real secret is finding a good baptist southern girl. They tend to be intelligent and well educated and also take care of their looks. A bonus is they tend to look for a more traditional relationship with a man in that they expect a bit of an edge and not this new age metro sexual bs so popular today. Heck, a lot are even libertarians. 

That said, good luck in your quest.


----------



## glenndamato

Gary,

Thanks for your advice, but my quest is definitely no longer to find a woman. I have to be realistic about these matters. I'll be 53 in a couple of months, and I'm a good 90 lbs overweight for my height. My tastes have not changed in twenty years. Frankly, I don't see much use in a relationship besides starting a family and raising kids - and the odds of a fit and pretty woman of child-bearing age wanting to do that with me (not a millionaire either!) is as close to zero as you can get. I am through re-arranging my life in pursuit of women: I love coastal California and there is no chance I'm going to move in the hope that in some other part of America women will appreciate me more. Sorry!

I reject the notion that a man's life is somehow wasted or lived in vain if there is no woman dependent on him (or no relationship, however you wish to phrase it). A relationship is NOT "essential to a good life." The misconception that it is produces much misery and waste in our world. 

I am not saying "life has no purpose" (I have met many men who swear that unless a man has a lover, he is useless and without purpose and might as well blow his brains out). Instead, each individual decides the purpose of his or her life. I feel very fortunate that writing Breaking Seas has given me the confidence to tackle a far more challenging project - a novel - and not a sailing novel, either. I have lots of stories in me fighting to get out, and this one story in particular I feel I must get down on paper now or I will burst at the seams. If Breaking Seas was my path to get to this point, that makes it far more than worthwhile.

Best,

Glenn


----------



## TomMaine

The Garbone said:


> Since a lot of folks have chimed in about the lady issues in the book I will add my two pence.
> 
> I grew up in Maine and a lot of the reason I left was the women (on average) looked like cattle. Came down south and the prospects improved. The real secret is finding a good baptist southern girl. They tend to be intelligent and well educated and also take care of their looks. A bonus is they tend to look for a more traditional relationship with a man in that they expect a bit of an edge and not this new age metro sexual bs so popular today. Heck, a lot are even libertarians.
> 
> That said, good luck in your quest.


I'm just curious,...what part of Maine did you grow up in?


----------



## smackdaddy

TomMaine said:


> I'm just curious,...what part of Maine did you grow up in?


The part with the cowchicks.


----------



## caberg

glenndamato said:


> I reject the notion that a man's life is somehow wasted or lived in vain if there is no woman dependent on him (or no relationship, however you wish to phrase it). A relationship is NOT "essential to a good life." The misconception that it is produces much misery and waste in our world.


Perhaps you started with a flawed notion (which you you are rejecting). The idea that a woman is a dependent in a relationship is quite archaic. My wife is no more dependent on me, than I am on her. Best friends is a more appropriate term, I think.

Sure, a relationship is not essential to a good life. Who argues otherwise? Plenty of single folks live very fulfilled lives, and are able to pursue goals that might otherwise not fit into relationship. There's a trade off involved. I wouldn't trade what I have, but I can see the appeal of a single life, too.

You seem to spend a lot of time and effort analyzing this relationship stuff and why it will not happen for you. I suspect that you've trumped up some of this to write a more compelling story, but anyway, my advice would be to forget all of that and just live your life. Maybe get into shape and lose that extra 90 lbs too. You may be surprised some day.


----------



## JoeDiver

Hey Glenn,

I was browsing the Kindle store (Amazon) on my Kindle....I was looking at a suggested Bumfuzzle title....and, you know how you can scroll down after the book description, they suggest 3 more books you might like.....well, one of the 3 suggested books was Breaking Seas!

Congrats man.....you got "suggested".....


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## glenndamato

caberg,

Believe me, sir, the people who have known me for 40, 30, 20, 15 years (close friends, relatives, and colleagues who have read the book) would certainly all assure you that I did not "trump up" a word with respect to my views, experiences, dealings etc. with the female gender! They might be aghast that I actually wrote that stuff down . . . but they would not contest a bit of it! It's the raw truth laid out plainly for people to take it or leave it. I never seriously considered NOT writing the book with that material left out. It was too integral to the entire story, almost up to the last page.

Best,

Glenn


----------



## glenndamato

Thanks Joe! Amazon has an automated system that does that all the time.


----------



## davidpm

The Garbone said:


> Since a lot of folks have chimed in about the lady issues in the book I will add my two pence.
> 
> Glenn, the problem is not who your looking for but were you are looking for them. I grew up in Maine and a lot of the reason I left was the women (on average) looked like cattle. Came down south and the prospects improved. The real secret is finding a good baptist southern girl. They tend to be intelligent and well educated and also take care of their looks. A bonus is they tend to look for a more traditional relationship with a man in that they expect a bit of an edge and not this new age metro sexual bs so popular today. Heck, a lot are even libertarians.
> 
> That said, good luck in your quest.


I saw this play in NYC a few years back.
Jewtopia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The story was about this gentile guy who wanted to marry a Jewish woman because he didn't like to make decisions so he figured a Jewish wife would make all the decisions for him.

It was very funny.


----------



## glenndamato

And you don't have to be Jewish to be in that situation!


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Here are my take-aways...
> 
> 1. Who cares who Glenn's attracted to and who he isn't? All this crap about him needing to "change his attitude" and settle for fatter, uglier chicks? Please. It's his freakin' love life. And he's very open about the fact that he's got none, knows the reason why, and is cool with it. In the end, Glenn, from the book you strike me as the typical older single dude whose ways are so set that you'll probably never find a chick that you'll be able to truly tolerate. The fact that you recognize that your standards are likely impossibly high - and are okay finding a fun life outside of romance is cool. More power to you.
> 
> 2. Composting heads are stupid. Sure...it's all about the "no smell" allure. Of course, when you're rolling in four people's sewage on your cabin sole, spitting that grit out of your mouth...well, I'll live with a bit of funk from my standard head thanks.
> 
> 3. I was all about the Pudgy. They seem like the Swiss Army Knives of tenders. Just sounds like they don't work too well at any of the functions.
> 
> 4. I'll never, ever, ever buy a full-keel boat.
> 
> 5. I think you're pretty awesome for what you've done and your attitude about it all. Head over to the BFS shop (link in my sig) and register an account. I'll send you a free BFS hoodie. Hanging out on that sprit in a blow without getting flicked? You definitely deserve it dude.


Smack! You're killing me here! You know I have a full keeled boat with a composting toilet and a pudgy! Obviously our opionions differ on these points, which only means (of course) that you are wrong, but I'm sure you'll see the light sooner or later and change your mind. 

The pudgy is awesome IF you need a liferaft. It is better in every way than a standard liferaft and is pretty darn good as a tender to row or sail. If, on the other hand, you don't need a liferaft, it is vastly inferior to many choices. A Ranger Minto for example is cheaper, rows better, sails better and carries the same cargo of people and HP of engine. No need for a liferaft? Get a Minto or other quality sailing dingy. Need a liferaft and a tender? There is nothing better.

As for the composting toilet debate, I won't rehash that one, but I will say that if you ever come visit, you are free to drop your biggest steamer in our composter and we'll see if we can make a true believer out of you. 

The full keeled boat hate surprises me. I haven't read the book yet but I assume the keel hate comes from Glenn's difficulty clawing off a lee shore. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there were other factors at play making it harder such as sail trim and him being single-handed or other aspects of hull design that weren't compatible with his weather and waves. Lyn and Larry Pardey never found themselves on a lee shore on their full-keeled cutters and even Annie hill did well on her engine-less junk. Heck, even catamarans (which don't go to weather well) do okay. Full keels aren't the problem I say!

Whew! I feel better. Now that I've got that off my chest, want to talk anchors? 

MedSailor


----------



## glenndamato

All true, MedSailor. 

I would never characterize my feelings toward a full keel as "hate." It's just not a choice I would make again. It's not really the lee shore issue either - it's just speed on all points of sail, preferably without running the engine. Please don't forget I'm in So Cal, where light winds are the norm. If I cruise CA-HI-Mexico some day, I just think it would be more fun altogether with a higher performing boat. 

A few posts ago I went to great lengths to explain that I DO advocate the AirHead, and the other competing composting system out there (Nature's Way I think) as long as two conditions are met: don't overload (five or six people on one unit!) and don't let urine in the main container. That's it! West Marine should be selling these things, but I don't expect them to because they would canibalize their sales from all the hoses, valves, pumps, pump repair kits, CHEMICALS, and all the other doohickeys and paraphernalia they sell to support the existing holding tank systems.

I liked my Portland Pudgy too, but I could not fathom anyone thinking it would be a safe lifeboat for anything more than two average sized adults. It's small. It would have been irresponsible for me to put to sea with four adults and just the Pudgy - so I had to buy a $6000 liferaft anyhow, on top of the $4500 I had already spent on the Pudgy and related gear. Prices are 2004 - without a doubt much higher today.

Your mileage may vary! Please note if there's one thing I learned, one size does not fit all.

Best,

Glenn


----------



## MedSailor

glenndamato said:


> All true, MedSailor.
> 
> A few posts ago I went to great lengths to explain that I DO advocate the AirHead, and the other competing composting system out there (Nature's Way I think) *as long as two conditions are met: don't overload (five or six people on one unit!) and don't let urine in the main container. *That's it!
> 
> I liked my Portland Pudgy too, but I could not fathom anyone thinking it would be a safe lifeboat for anything more than two average sized adults. It's small. *It would have been irresponsible for me to put to sea with four adults and just the Pudgy -* so I had to buy a $6000 liferaft anyhow, on top of the $4500 I had already spent on the Pudgy and related gear. Prices are 2004 - without a doubt much higher today.
> 
> Your mileage may vary! Please note if there's one thing I learned, one size does not fit all.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Glenn


AMEN! Brother to the first point. Those be the key to sucess with the composting head. (I have the Nature's Head).

As for the pudgy's size it actually has enough floor space to be equal to a coast guard approved 4 person life raft. Crazy I know, but the coast guard requirement is NOT very big in the floor space department. They require only 3.6sqft per-person to be exact. That's not even 2'x2'square each. Survuval is much different than comfort and I do think that 4 could survive in the pudgy...

From this link:https://homeport.uscg.mil/cgi-bin/st/portal/uscg_docs/MyCG/Editorial/20100422/policy%2001-92%20Ch2.pdf?id=07dbaedcdd636f25067343b985c59adafc2b6ac2&user_id=383b6a475500612e175e6d5f4d1f0646
_(2) the area of the floor in square meters divided by 0.335 (or, the area in square feet
divided by 3.6). This area shall be the clear area of the floor inside the inflated
buoyancy tubes._

MedSailor


----------



## glenndamato

Yes sir, you're right about the USCG rating . . . but I don't care what the USCG says, when people are at sea in my vessel, I'm the one resposible for their safety, and Damato rating for the Pudgey is two "realistically" sized adults. 

I think the USCG begins with the premise that the sea will be a millpond and rescue will come in an hour or so. If either of those two conditions are not true, four adults in a Pudgy is insane. Maybe the USCG was bought off by the raft manufacturers a long time ago, but I reject it altogether.

The only way four ADULTS could safety fit inside a Pudgy, in moderate seas, with maybe a full day before EPIRB-guided rescue, is if those four are all celery-chomping vegan fashion models from Beverly Hills. Me alone, I am a red-blooded meat-eating Rush Limbaugh-size chunk of American Manhood, and with me in there, there would be room for one more at the most!

cheers,

Glenn


----------



## ShoalFinder

I'm a little bit depressed reading about the Pudgy, since it's been on my wishlist for so long. I always thought of it as a tonka-truck dinghy (super tough / oyster proof) that I could drag behind the boat as a liberty launch as well as a lifeboat. But reality is a good thing. I'm not tall (about 5'9" and weigh about 240, the guy I usually sail with IS tall, and weighs about the same... then you add a wife and maybe a kid...)


----------



## glenndamato

ShoalFinder: It's a judgement call. You have to consider the kind of sailing you do - where you go, in what kind of weather. What is the worst case scenario? Your vessel sinks in a few minutes, or it catches fire and must be abandoned. What is the worst possible sea state based on when and where you sail? What is a likely range of time to rescue? If you have an EPIRB and are in coastal waters, the USCG can be there in hours. If you are far out to sea, you may need to wait for a commercial vessel to re-route to your area. You may be in for a longer wait: 24 hours, 48 hours, longer. Now, take all the people on your boat. Put them in the Pudgy. Do you feel comfortable with that arrangement given the possible emergency scenarios? The USCG may say "four adults" but I think the skipper has the call. Having used a Pudgy as a tender, UNLESS I was always going to be within 50 nm of the USA and in calm to moderate seas, I would say two adults max, with maybe one SMALL child. To me, outside the range of an almost certain quick rescue, three or more adults aint gonna fly.

Hard dinks as lifeboats in the open ocean have their own problems. I read "Survive the Savage Sea" (Dougal Roberts I think) when I was fourteen - a thrilling read if you haven't already gone through it.

cheers,

Glenn


----------



## smackdaddy

glenndamato said:


> The only way four ADULTS could safety fit inside a Pudgy...is if those four are all celery-chomping vegan fashion models from Beverly Hills.


Taking this in context with your taste in chicks - you may be onto the main reason you should use the Pudgy as a life raft.

So is this your vision of hell: You and Megan stuck in a Pudgy for weeks on end, floating toward Guam and praying for rescue?

Heh-heh.

BTW - I can't get the nighty scene out of my head. _[Shudder.]_ Thanks for that, dude.


----------



## glenndamato

Smackdaddy: LOL. I could have written more, but it would have been gratuitous. Please also note that some characters in this book (Megan and Joyce for example) are disguised with names and minor details so it would not be clear who the real person is, even to people in the SF sailing community. Ages, physical characteristics, and personalities are all true to life. If you're wondering, Duffy is a real name!


----------



## LauderBoy

The thing with the Pudgy is it seems like it'd add a lot of windage if kept up on deck and it sounds pretty heavy to man handle around. So it's not all that hot as a life raft. Then as a tender it seems like it'd perform worse than a normal hard dink.

I think the idea is really sound, even the design looks good. But it's sort of one of those imperfect compromises.


----------



## wind_magic

LauderBoy said:


> The thing with the Pudgy is it seems like it'd add a lot of windage if kept up on deck and it sounds pretty heavy to man handle around. So it's not all that hot as a life raft. Then as a tender it seems like it'd perform worse than a normal hard dink.
> 
> I think the idea is really sound, even the design looks good. But it's sort of one of those imperfect compromises.


I would like inflatable life rafts more if instead of inflating with air they inflated with foam that solidified so that small cuts in the life raft material wouldn't deflate it.

I would like the Pudgy more if I find out (?????) that it either has multiple air tight compartments inside or it is filled with foam so that a hole in the plastic won't let it fill with water and thus stop being "unsinkable".

In short, I want "unsinkable" to BE unsinkable, unless a blue whale swallows the thing.


----------



## glenndamato

The Pudgy is "unsinkable" (foam-filled) but that doesn't mean it can't swamp or capsize if overloaded for a particular sea state. 

So much depends on the type of cruising you do, number of crew, and the time until rescue. Inflatable liferafts, especially if filled to rated capacity, are for QUICK rescue: hours. Depending on your location and scenario, there is no guarantee of a quick rescue. A hard dink is considered a "proactive" lifeboat: you can use a handheld GPS to sail or even row it to civilization. Don't put all your faith in EPIRBS. If you are in a remote part of the world, all that may happen is that one commercial vessel re-routes 175 nm to your area, makes a couple of circles, doesn't see you, and continues to port. Captains have schedules to keep. 

Note that inflatable liferafts have VERY POOR reputations when inflated at sea and occupied for more than a few days. See Steve Calahan, Dougal Robertson, etc.

As for a tender, people want QUICK gratification and for that nothing can replace a Zodiac and an outboard. It's like the family minivan - will zip you in and out fast and easy. But for long term cruising a Zodiac can mean expensive repairs and replacement, plus the outboard, plus gasoline storage, plus repairs for the outboard . . . a hard dink can be rowed. Slow, but sure. The Pudgy can be sailed (I would rather make the rig than buy their overpriced gear). 

Yes, the Pudgy stowed on deck means windage, and maybe even visibility sacrificed. The degree of seriousness of course depends on the size of your main boat. Keeping a Pudgy on the cabin top of a 24-foot sloop would be absurd.


----------



## sailguy40

glenndamato said:


> Thanks guys. I live in Marina del Rey, surounded by thousands of boats, brokers, you name it. I am seriously considering getting back into it. With the economy what it is, the deals are incredible.
> 
> David - I think the solution is to look for a boat that has been sailed off shore in all kinds of conditions sometime over the last few years, and then hunt for signs of leakage. If a boat leaks bad, it's almost impossible for the owner to cover up ALL the telltale signs. There will be heavy mildew under the cushions. The bilge may show watermarks high up. The lockers will look like they've been filled with soggy mess - or are ALL the lockers repainted? Hmmm. My main point is the usual "hose test" will not tell you much. If ports or hatches leak, they probably only need some adjustment or a new gasket.


I never read your book yet but I will get the Kindle version on my PC when I get the chance. So I don't know what you went through as far as your experience just yet but from reading on this thread, I think you should definitely get back into it! Just revisit it in a different way. You don't have to buy a huge blue water cruiser and quit your job on a quest to sail around the world alone. Take it more casual, like a "cool cat" and just head out for some afternoon sails, overnights or short weekend trips. Or if you have more time and feeling adventurous every now and then try some week long coastal trips. Then you can choose your nice weather days and enjoy it instead of regretting things. This is what I do, I take my girlfriends and buds out off and on, we crank up the music and always have a good time. All fun, no hassles and minimal dangers or risks in breaking things. I do a lot of photography and video when I am out there. I also do a lot of single handing too. Not too many friends are able to take a long voyage but no problem getting anyone to go out on shorter day sails, overnight or weekend trips. Just get you a real nice 26ft that don't need a lot of work with good sails and a good outboard, done. Say no to those all work no play dilapitated project boats.


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## ShoalFinder

smackdaddy said:


> BTW - I can't get the nighty scene out of my head. _[Shudder.]_ Thanks for that, dude.


Yeah, being date-raped by Snuffalupagus has given me nightmares since I read the book, too. Why do people think behavior like this is okay if it's initiated by the woman? If a woman came home to her boat to find Ted Kennedy in his boxers and sock garters with a "come hithah" look on his face the cops would be called immediately.


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## glenndamato

Thanks for the advice, Tim! I gotta get into better shape, too. I am fatter and weaker than what I was ten years ago. I'm going to work on that slowly while I tackle my writing project for 2013, which is a novel. 2014 might be the year of a new boat.

ShoalFinder: sorry I gave you the heebie-jeebies! Now, she did not actually "do" anything directly physical, keep in mind, outside of the atire and extreme close proximity and, as you so clearly expressed, a "look!" Many people, I think, assume that all men operate under a strict system that lowers their standards automatically so that virtually anyone can mate with . . . someone. People can confirm this assumption with about 80-90 percent of men. And many unattached men >30 or so are concerned that being completely unmated lowers their social status and, often, leads to gradual self destruction via alcohol. Neither is a problem for me and several other "chronically unmated" males I know - but people can assume that you are "just shy" or uncertain or maybe inexperienced or maybe afraid of offense or criminal charges if you "make the first move" - so they want to give you a nudge. The idea of an unmated male not being interested really sends some people into a state of rage - as if "you really don't have that right." Not everyone, just some.

Best,

Glenn


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## MedSailor

LauderBoy said:


> The thing with the Pudgy is it seems like it'd add a lot of windage if kept up on deck and it sounds pretty heavy to man handle around. So it's not all that hot as a life raft. Then as a tender it seems like it'd perform worse than a normal hard dink.
> 
> I think the idea is really sound, even the design looks good. But it's sort of one of those imperfect compromises.


Actually since the pudgy is commonly used as your daily tender the crew should be very familiar and practiced with launching the pudgy as compared to a liferaft that nobody has ever practiced launching or boarding. For us, the pudgy is on davits 99% of the time, with it going on deck only for ocean crossings. I have a lifeline gate at the sides where the pudgy resides on deck and a painter attached at all times. I would only need to undo the lifeline gate on the preferred side, slide the pudgy into the water and board. Of course the abandon-ship disaster doesn't always happen in "blue water" so it also could be conveniently located on its davits when disaster strikes.

The pudgy is unsinkable by many definitions. It is double hulled with copious storage between the hulls. It took 1855lbs (in its Coast Guard capacity rating test) to submerge the gunwales due to the double hull's boyancy. If the iterior hull was compromised it has a special fitting for a hand bilge pump for easy dewatering. If the outer hull is compromised below the waterline that is more serious (but less so than on a fabric liferaft or a single hulled rigid dinghy). If holed he foam between the hulls and the dry interior would still keep you riding pretty high in the water. The inflatable canopy makes it self righting in capsize as well. It would take a sharktopus attack to sink it. 

Compromise? You bet. Worse than a regular hard tender? Not really. In tender perfomance it is most like a cross between an inflatable and a hard rowing sailing dink. It does sail and row like a hard dink, but not as well. On the other hand it has much of the stability of an inflatable. Adults can sit on the gunwales and it's pretty stable when boarding which you can't do on a ranger minto.










Back to it's lifeboat functions, while it is small and of fixed capacity, consider what your other options are if you are a typical 2 person crew that sometimes takes another couple aboard:

If you get a USCG inflatable 2 person liferaft it just plain won't fit 4 people But if you get a 4 person raft, then it won't be properly ballasted (the occupants are calculated into the ballast design) and is at risk of capsize frequently. Steve Calahan made this mistake by buying a much "roomier" raft for himself and capsized countless times.

Recently I had the chance to interview Zack Smith of Fiorentino sea anchors about his experience with the pudgy as he designed the sea anchor for it. When I asked how it was sitting in the pudgy in a gale he got this big ship-eating grin and said "It was great! It felt so stable and safe and was like an amusement park ride. I wanted to keep going longer but the 31' trawler I was with was getting pounded and was worried about breaking something and so we had to turn back." This was in a gale west of the Golden Gate. Email Zack Smith and ask him about the pudgy. He's the only person I know that has been in a gale in one. He also knows all about the craft (and really likes it) because he was involved with aspects of its design.

Now compare that with Les Straud's "Survivorman" episode 9 season 1 "lost at sea" where he drifts about in a liferaft. He ended the excercise early because he was so uncomfortable and scared in his raft. Also, the first raft they used deflated before he got in it, and the second one inflated upside down (50% chance) beside the boat.

Finally, the ability to propel the raft can not be over-stated. I've interviewed one person who used his liferaft in anger and he said that the only time he thought he might die was when the container ship was trying to come alongside. He realised that if it didn't all go perfectly he would either be run down, or sucked into the prop. He ended up jumping out of his raft and swimming the last 100yards to the jacob's ladder. Had he been able to row his raft he could have made that excercise much safer.

Steve Calahan lamented that he wrecked so close to africa, but had to drift all the way to south america because he couldn't propel the craft.

The guys in the trimaran off New Zealand thought they were done for after over 100days at sea because they were about to be dashed on the rocks. Others have nearly perished while trying to make landfall on reefs or rocks. Being able to row to a safer landing spot would be a good feature.

You can also row/sail to the ITCZ or twards a squall to catch rain, or towards shipping lanes to increase your chances of being seen.

What about the boat fire or other catastrophy that happens only 1 mile offshore but with a breeze and current blowing you offshore and no way to row that one mile back to land. There have been several fisherman to whom this happened and drifted for months. Imagine the frustration of sitting in your raft, one mile from shore on a coastal day outing knowing that you are drifting further and further away.

I could go on.... 

MedSailor


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## glenndamato

I agree with every word of your highly informative post, MedSailor, and I would just like to add the caveat: I don't consider the Pudgy a realistic lifeboat for four adults - assuming >25 nm from land. In the photo on your post, those folks are all seated on the gunwales. And they're in a harbor or a lake or a lagoon, without significant water motion. And they probably held that pose for only a few minutes! That many people in a Pudgy on the ocean in moderate seas, possibly for days, would not be safe. But imagine two couples sailing from SF to Hilo with JUST a Pudgy on board as a lifeboat, on the grounds that it is "USCG rated for four persons." Sorry, not on my vessel! I suspect that many people assume that with an EPRIB, you're gonna be in the boat for just a few hours anyhow. Certainly no more crunched up than an economy seat on United Airlines, right? But there are plenty of things to go wrong with that scenario. EPIRB or not, it may take days to be picked up, maybe longer, depending on many factors.

cheers,

Glenn


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## ShoalFinder

I think I'd still feel safer in the Pudgy, Glenn, but that's me. I've never been in a liferaft after a sinking, so I guess my fears are all based on the countless survival stories that revolve around herculean efforts to patch a leaking inflatable in order to avoid becoming shark food. I can't tell you how comforting the thought of a hard, damn near unsinkable shell between me and the alternative makes me feel.

I was once in a RHIB zipping across the Baltic, transferring between two ships. Not that it wasn't a nice ride, but the coxswain was wearing a dry suit in case he fell in or the boat sank. Being a passenger, I was not. As we zipped along for several miles en route, I couldn't help but think that if this sucker goes flat I'm done for. The coxswain might stay warm long enough to be rescued, or at least they'll see his body eventually- but I'm going to be a popsicle, and then shortly after I'll be crab food.


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## caberg

Ditto to ShoalFinder. Read Steve Callahan's book, _Adrift: 76 Days Lost at Sea_, and then tell me you'd rather have an inflatable raft over a hard bottom.


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## MedSailor

Glenn,

I've enjoying our pudgy discussion very much, especially since we've both owned and used one and have differing points of view.

I have 2 pointed questions:

1: Since we're talking survival here, do you think that 4 adults are more likely to die because of the space constraints of the pudgy? If so, how?

2: Since you have indicated that the USCG rating isn't up to your Damato rating (I love that phrase) it sounds to me like you are in favor of a larger craft to accommodate your max expected crew. Given the problems with inflatable rafts being under-ballasted and prone to capsize when not filled to capacity, what alternative do you propose for a single-hander who may find himself alone in his (6-man? 8-man raft?) or be abandoning ship with as many as 4 adults aboard?

MedSailor


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## glenndamato

I'd feel more comfortable in a Pudgy too! Plus, $6000 or more is a lot of moolah to spend on something (an inflatable emergency offshore raft) that you hope you never actually use!

I think the only point we differ on is that if I were headed offshore with more than two adults, I would spring for the raft as a suppliment to the Pudgy in fire or sinking - I actually did that during the Breaking Seas story - hard on the wallet, but I felt it was the right thing to do.


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## glenndamato

MedSailor: 

1. Imagine four "realistically sized" American adults in a Pudgy. Especially if three or more of them are men, that alone would probably exceed the weight capacity of 557 lbs. Even if two of them were slim women and the other two average sized, fit men, you'd be right at over slightly over the limit - with no leeway for food, water, survival gear, the canopy, etc. Do the math: 2x(120+160)=560. And today's middle aged crowd is bigger than that!

You can probably overload the Pudgy and not drown IF the sea state is mild and you are picked up in a few hours. But seriously, now. I just can't imagine four real adults, 2013 sized, in a Pudgy far out to sea for days at a time. I would be cursing the blockheaded skipper. I don't want to be that blockheaded skipper!

2. When I go from CA to Hilo in a couple of years with maybe 4-6 friends and family aboard, I'll have both a Pudgy and a 6-person liferaft aboard. If the boat sinks, I'd distribute the people so that neither lifecraft is overloaded and the raft is ballasted.


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## smackdaddy

This is a great discussion guys. Thanks.


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## TomMaine

That's a great summation of the Pudgy, Medsailor. No matter how you slice it, that's a big load in the photo for a hard dinghy under 8'!

We've always used hard dinghys in our coastal sailing. We love to row and sail them for excercise and fun. The biggest drawback to ours is, it's 9'6" long. But that's the minimum boat we have found for a family of four for a safe tender. It's too big to put on deck, so we don't. Like the Pudgy, our tender is designed to tow well in most anything(we don't go out in most anything...)

The Portland Pudgy is growing in popularity in my harbor. There are 3 I think from 0 just a couple years ago. One couple I know rows their Pudgy regularly for fun, as well as reaching their boat quite far out. They're in very good shape! You give an honest report on their rowing ability, I'd say they're only a bit less rowable than similar sized high load carrying hard dinghys.

I talked to the Portland Pudgy rep at a local boat show this summer. He said orders are picking up.

All in all, I'd say it's a very good compromise for a good hard dinghy and small coastal life raft. It's the only one that does that.


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## smackdaddy

One of the things to remember...if you're thinking about the notion of "comfort" while in a life raft...is that comfort seems to be impossible. I remember from Calahan's story, and the story of the Butlers who were adrift for 76 days (I think), both in inflatables, that skin was rubbed raw pretty quickly, and they couldn't ever really stretch out and get comfortable. And every story I've ever read about multiple people ending up in a liferaft has involved the shock at how small it is. So, I don't really put the notion of comfort or space on the evaluation list. That said, being at sea for an extended period in a hard-shell liferaft is going to really hurt after a while. The trade off is that it won't lose air (which was the scariest aspect to me in both the Butler and Calahan stories).

The other trade off, as has already been mentioned, is the stowage and moving-around issue of the Pudgy over an inflatable vs. the mobility of the Pudgy over an inflatable once in the water.

I love the idea of actively working your way out of a nightmare instead of just drifting around in it.

I don't know, Med, maybe I don't hate your Pudgy as much as I thought. It really is a hard call isn't it?


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## ShoalFinder

I'm sure spending more than a few hours in ANY small craft in a survival situation would be brutal. But when all is said and done, the thing that actually matters THE MOST is that the damned thing keep floating. If you lose that single thing then there is no other consideration that matters one iota.

I just finished reading "Endurance" which is the story of the Shackleton expedition to Antarctica. When they finally took to the water to effect self-rescue in the lifeboats, those guys sat in one spot for nearly a week. Sat. In one spot. There was no room to even lie down. One developed an abcess inside his butt cheek. Another's feet froze because he could not wiggle them as there was no room to move for days.

Then, when the smaller party set sail from Elephant Island to go for help, they used tons of stones as ballast in a 22 foot open boat. For about eight days the off watch laid on these big rocks under a tarp. They had to kneel on these rocks to move them in order to shift ballast because the entire boat was filled with rocks and what stores they could take. Between the salt sores, the frostbite and the laying on rocks, it was Hell.

Everything about the entire ordeal was SUCK FACTOR 10. But the boat didn't sink. They lived because the boat didn't sink.


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## sailguy40

@glenndamato, just finished reading your book, excellent read I must say! I think most of the hell you caught was from jumping in the pool full force without knowing a thing. I think you done well considering all that had happened. I give you a big thumbs up for trying, that's more then what many people can say. I would say more but rather not spoil it in case others want to read the book.

Four years ago, I caught hell on a solo kayaking trip to a barrier island in the gulf. I did not think I would live to see my 40th birthday which was one week away when this happened but somehow I am here. After this happened, I remember saying I would never touch another paddle or kayak again. This was FALSE, I would soon after go kayaking many times and still kayak to this day and love it. I may one day write a book on my experience. So as I was saying earlier in this thread before I read your book, I think you should re-visit sailing again but just on a more casual level for now.


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## glenndamato

Thanks sailguy! I will probably get back into it shortly, but I am tempted to "go all out" again and get a 10-15 year old sloop or cutter in the 36-42 foot range, and live aboard. At age 53 in two months, I'm looking to downscale my life and rent is SO expensive here in southern California - you would not believe what it costs for a place in a nice building in a safe neighborhood. 

I would not be one of those live aboards with permanent potted plants all over the decks. I would actually sail the boat. I realize now that Hawaii, Seattle, Vancouver, and maybe the Sea of Cortez once a year are more my speed than the South Pacific and Indian Ocean.

Cheers,

Glenn


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## rgscpat

Hi Glenn,

I just got the Ninth Circle Press trade paperback edition of Breaking Seas and started reading. The description of your fellow students in the not-so-basic keelboat class struck me and it seems you had the bad fortune to fall in with a particularly elitist/salty group. I don't have a good frame of reference though, because we managed to take classes as a family (self, spouse, then-pre-teen son) in the off seasons in 1999 and 2002 (in Santa Barbara). 

The other part the struck me was just how much was missed by the survey. If I had a bunch of extra money to burn, it would be a fascinating experiment to get a boat surveyed by a few different surveyors just to see who misses what -- and after doing a really hard, probing "pre survey" myself and with a couple of experienced friends. If a boating magazine wanted to do boaters a real service, they could do something like this experiment and write a "What can you expect your surveyor to find -- or miss" article. Was your surveyor a member of a trade group and how much experience did he supposedly have with older sailboats?

Now, how do I arrange for the weather to be properly nasty, sucky, and challenging for a sea trial?! 

I also wonder if maybe decent life rafts might be cheaper enough in someplace like the UK (with fewer legal issues to maybe inflate the price) to be worth getting from there. For people on a budget, I wonder if perhaps gumby (survival) suits would buy enough time/provide enough protection to allow crew to use a pudgy or other hard or soft ship's dinghy as life raft. 
-- Pat Byrnes


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## islandskipper23

Glenn,

Dont mean to derail the discussion, but just wanted to say how much I loved your book.

I just finished the kindle version in Virgin Gorda (while alternating between your book, Two Years Before the Mast, and Across Islands and Oceans ---- so take pride that yours is right up there with the best of sailing books!)

I really liked your writing style and humor -- dont forget that there is a whole world of sailing out there that isn't squalls, equipment failure, and sleep deprivation (though thats a big part of it) -- sounds like you need to get into a late-model boat and have a few good harbor cruises and sunsets on the mooring!

Keep up the great writing! (and as others have said, the "nighty" scene is also burned into my memory....)

Teddy


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## Capt.Alex

Glenn,

I purchased the Kindle version of your book yesterday and have enjoyed it so far, I'm maybe half way through. I am in the process of purchasing a boat as we speak and intend to take the next year fixing it up while continuing to work. When the boat is ready I intend to quit my job and go cruising. I would like to take the opportunity on this public forum to officially ask your permission to reprint the email you wrote to your co-workers on your final day of work. It was the most honest and classy way to say farewell to a group of people that think you are nuts to do what you did. Good luck on your future endeavors, keep following you dreams!


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## glenndamato

Capt. Alex,

By all means, please feel free to reprint the farewell email! Glad you liked it. May you have following seas on your adventure!

Cheers,

Glenn


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## glenndamato

Teddy,

Glad you enjoyed the book! And you're so right - this time, when I search yachtworld and other sites, I make sure the boat age is limited to 10 years or 15 years at the most. When I do get my second boat, I want to be able to go sailing, not spend all my time and energy on boat work (although some will be necessary, no question).

Please consider doing a review on Amazon - those good reviews really help with a first time book! 

Best,

Glenn


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## glenndamato

Pat,

I think what happened in my case was that the broker got "too cozy" with the sales rep. They laughed and geegawed together before the survey was conducted and exchanged cards. I think they both put Serenity in the "hopeless" category and me in the "clueless" category (or "more money than sense") and figured it wouldn't matter anyhow if the survey was, ah, "light and forgiving" in order to separate the nerd from his money, no doubt money easily acquired from inflated tech stock prices, so it's not really stealing! For his next sales, the broker would know which surveyor to call to get a "gentle" survey. Real estate appraisers operate in the same manner. Brokers know which appraisers to call to get a "generous" appraisal on a property.

For the shakedown, we were lucky that Labor Day weekend, when everyone was available, shaped up to be fairly heavy and windy but not dangerous, so we could test the boat in moderate seas. 

I'm not sure if a gumby suit would be worth the expense and storage space - probably depends on your budget and when and where you sail. I think we could say that if each person was wearing one, it would take up a lot of space on the Pudgy! I always doubted the Pudgy was truly suitable for four adults as a lifeboat anyhow. Note on the website the four adults each sit on the gunwhales! You wouldn't do that in a moderate sea! The Pudgy is quite small - eight feet - I would not recommend it for real for four adults, maybe not even for three unless they were pretty small to begin with. It's a judgement call. 

I'd be careful with liferafts certified in foreign countries - it should be repacked and recertified in the US anyhow. A liferaft packed five years ago is not much use. You need to be sure the thing will inflate! Compressed gas has a way of leaking out over years . . .

Best regards,

Glenn


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## katsailor

Glen
Newbie boat owner checking in, I ordered your book via Amazon and laughed about the story of discovering your holdng tank needed some iimprovements. Next week it was running through my head as I searching for the soure of the noxious smell and wondering if I too bought a boat with a wooded holding tank. uke

I will post a favorable review on Amazon, wish me luck on the marine head system.


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## glenndamato

Thanks Kat! I think a wooden (1/4 inch plywood) holding tank is extremely unusual! Even if you have a standard plastic tank, it can still stink up the entire boat. As I understand it, the waste stinks when it decays anaerobically, without oxygen, which happens if it's in the tank too long without proper ventilation. Most tank vents (such as water and fuel tanks) are needed only to let air out of the tank as water or fuel is put in. In a holding tank, the vent must be large enough to allow sufficient air and oxygen into the tank to produce aerobic decomposition. The standard 1/4 or 1/2 inch vent is too narrow, I read in a Practical Sailor article about ten years ago. An inch and a half might be better, two vents better still.

Cheers,

Glenn


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## MedSailor

glenndamato said:


> Teddy,
> 
> Glad you enjoyed the book! And you're so right - this time, when I search yachtworld and other sites, I make sure the boat age is limited to 10 years or 15 years at the most. When I do get my second boat, *I want to be able to go sailing, not spend all my time and energy on boat work* (although some will be necessary, no question).
> 
> Please consider doing a review on Amazon - those good reviews really help with a first time book!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Glenn


HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! That's a good one!

Oh, wait you're serious.  You should consider chartering boats. 

MedSailor (jaded old boat guy)

PS Bought the "Kindle-Retro" version yesterday. I actually passed up a used one because I wanted the author to receive royalties.


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## krisscross

That is one of the funniest threads I have seen on this site... 
Dude, you could have your own cable show... This Old Boat or something like that.


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## glenndamato

LOL Too bad "This Old Boat" is taken - name of a magazine! Pretty good one too.


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## GMFL

Glenn,
I bought your book the other day and have only skimmed this thread to keep from stumbling on any spoilers. I'm only 30% or so through the book but I've been glued.

The reason: I seem to be living much of your story now! Almost. Bought my boat out of the same marina you did, it was the fourth one I looked at. I've been doing a refit for the last two years, getting ready to sail south this summer. Almost deja vu! 

Pretty funny book, thanks.


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## glenndamato

Good to hear, GMFL! What kind of boat did you acquire? Keeping it in the City, or one of the Marin marinas like Loch Lomond?


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## GMFL

glenndamato said:


> Good to hear, GMFL! What kind of boat did you acquire? Keeping it in the City, or one of the Marin marinas like Loch Lomond?


It's a '75 Islander 36, still at the same marina. Hard to want move from that slip, pretty ideal for a weekend getaway for me. Just a few more items for it (autopilot being the biggest expense left) and then I'm shoving off to bring her south.

Was going to wait until after the AC this year but went to the two AC45 races last year and think I'd rather watch the big boats race on TV, especially with the course change.


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## glenndamato

Did the previous owner keep the maintenance up?


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## MedSailor

GMFL said:


> Glenn,
> 
> The reason: I seem to be living much of your story now!  Almost. Bought my boat out of the same marina you did, it was the fourth one I looked at. I've been doing a refit for the last two years, getting ready to sail south this summer. Almost deja vu!
> 
> Pretty funny book, thanks.


Man are you going to be pissed when you get to the point where the boat sinks and the author dies. 

MedSailor


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## glenndamato

"I'm not dead yet!"


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## GMFL

glenndamato said:


> Did the previous owner keep the maintenance up?


I thought he did. What I've learned since is a bit different. The boat seemed to have been used mostly in the bay for races and although it wasn't stripped, it wasn't ideal for cruising either. There was a roller furler but it had not been used as such in awhile and the drum was useless. Electronics were way old, the vhf must have been original and didn't work. The VHF is actually pretty cool looking though, about the size of a small ice chest. The stove was brand new when I bought it but not hooked up, etc. (I guess the racing rules stated that the boat must have a stove, headliner, very small anchor, can't use furler, etc.)

Anyway, I've had the mast out & repainted, lines run internal, new standing rigging, all new electronics etc. No problems with the head though (knock knock) The bright work looked great and I've been trying to keep it up but after the first time I varnished, I removed the masking and it pulled up the "new" deck paint the previous owner had applied. A very poor job after looking further into it. Something I'll have to re-do. Same with the topside paint. I'm sure this sounds like a typical older boat owner at this point though huh?

Oh, well. B.O.A.T. Right? 

Gerry


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## GMFL

MedSailor said:


> Man are you going to be pissed when you get to the point where the boat sinks and the author dies.
> 
> MedSailor


Damn, I better finish reading before I head out! :laugher


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## davidpm

It is hard to come up with an idea for a cruising book that is original but I think I have one. 
How about a cruising snuff book.
The premise is that some old dude like me fits out a marginal but rock solid boat maybe a Person Triton.
Sets very difficult goals that get progressively harder and more dangerous.
Blogs about it daily.
Keeps going until it is fatal.

1. Good way to go.
2. Great story.
3. Follow the Pardee rules. Under no circumstance risk any fresh young coasties to save my wrinkled butt. The last few seconds would be blogging not calling for help.
4. Educational as you would see exactly what you can get away with and not.

That would be something different.


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## glenndamato

David, I think you just described my last days alive! When I get really old, given the fact that I have no wife and kids, why not just buy a simple boat, provision her, point the bow west and see how far I can get before I croak? I mean, what's the alternative? Die in a hospital bed, cared for by indifferent strangers making $9 an hour to occasionally clean you up???

Anyhow, not quite ready for that YET.

Gerry: Paint can be a tricky thing. I guess people find out, after a time, it's not like painting a room or a house. If someone just buys some paint and rolls it on the gelcoat, even if it's good paint and the gelcoat is cleaned first, it will not hold up against the UV coming from the sky and the water. Years ago I found a highly detailed procedure to do a long-term paintjob on a boat, and I used it to do my cabintop after I replaced my four big plastic windows with bronze opening ports. The process required special, expensive expoxy paint and primer, any MANY coats, with sanding and acetone between coats. It took a long, long time and several weeks, but the results were spectacular and held up beautifully. The big picture is to get the primer coats to truly bond with the gelcoat - the gelcoat has to be roughed up with sanding first (you basically destroy it before you cover it).

I guess there is something to say about cruising in a racing hull, but I believe it takes more hands to do it safely and more care has to be taken in heavy seas and winds. 

Best,

Glenn


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## GMFL

Well, Islanders aren't a "racing hull" per se, but "cruiser/racers". I think the PO had racing in mind over other adventures.

Funny story. I wanted to get a friend involved in sailing with me so I arranged for her to take a Lido 14 class with me to get her going. The first day she kept complaining that I was being too competitive with the other students and always trying to get ahead and be first to the turn or whatever. She exclaimed, "it's not a race, relax". Of course, with me anyway, it's ALWAYS a race even if the other sailors don't know it. Anyway, the a few lessons later and she's screaming at me "hurry up, there catching us/ahead of us, trim the sails!". Moral I guess; it's ALWAYS a race, even if you don't know it yet.


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## glenndamato

Yeah, sailing will bring out the racer in everyone!


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## davidpm

glenndamato said:


> David, I think you just described my last days alive! When I get really old, given the fact that I have no wife and kids, why not just buy a simple boat, provision her, point the bow west and see how far I can get before I croak? I mean, what's the alternative? Die in a hospital bed, cared for by indifferent strangers making $9 an hour to occasionally clean you up???


I'm with you on that hospital bed thing. As an alternative I'm thinking about deep techncial diving and/or cave diving.
I hear that the nitrogen narcosis thing is pretty sweet.

The down side would be that if it gets popular the caves would all be littered with the bodies of all of us baby boomers. It would be gross.
Maybe someone could invent a line of bio-degradable wet suits.


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## davidpm

Glenn 
Now that I have exceeded 2,700 posts (I really need to get a life) I have been deputized by the SailNet consortium to remind you that you may post in other threads.
In fact your comments would be welcome on other threads.
You have been around long enough and have been such a good sport I doubt if the moderators would complain if you put a link to your website and or book in you signature.
Yes I know no one has time for this CR&%$p but you know you are hooked to just go with it.


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## glenndamato

Thanks David. I noticed I became a "member" pretty quickly, after three weeks or so.

That's an interesting idea with the technical diving/cave diving your way to death, as an alternative to the slow, drawn-out but still ever popular nursing home method. But consider, you can only dive a tiny fraction of the time! Therefore, it's likely you may experience a health problem hours or days after a dive, and be taken away to a hospital . . . and then there you are, in bedpan land. 

My paternal grandfather was almost completely paralyzed by a sudden stroke but his mind was sound, so he had to simply vegitate flat on his back, essentially a quadraplegic, until his bodily systems gave out. My fraternal grandfather was partially paralyzed by a sudden stroke but most of his brain was destroyed. He could recognize people but not talk, and most of the time he seemed in a state of panic because he had no idea who he was or where he was. This lasted for four years.

By comparison, having my stroke or heart attack alone on a small boat at sea seems like a great deal. No paramedics, no bedpans. The one downside is you don't want to end up like Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, starved and dehydrated on an island, eaten alive by big coconut crabs.


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## JoeDiver

You can change your title....from Member to.....Giant Baby Watcher.....or something meaningful.....


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## TQA

davidpm said:


> It is hard to come up with an idea for a cruising book that is original but I think I have one.
> How about a cruising snuff book.
> The premise is that some old dude like me fits out a marginal but rock solid boat maybe a Person Triton.
> Sets very difficult goals that get progressively harder and more dangerous.
> Blogs about it daily.
> Keeps going until it is fatal.
> 
> 1. Good way to go.
> 2. Great story.
> 3. Follow the Pardee rules. Under no circumstance risk any fresh young coasties to save my wrinkled butt. The last few seconds would be blogging not calling for help.
> 4. Educational as you would see exactly what you can get away with and not.
> 
> That would be something different.


You DO know about Jeanne Socrates. With 1.99 s/h circumnavigations behind her, she is 131 days into her 3rd. This time engineless and at 70 years of age.

Blog is here


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## glenndamato

@Joe: She DID look like a giant baby . . . until she turned around. Yech.

@David: She sounds really fit, so being 70 may not be a big deal. Women age slower anyhow, by 4-5 years. My biggest issue with respect to cruising is fitness, and right now at age 52 (53 in less than three months) I am woefully unfit to cruise. I'm at least 50 lbs fatter than I was ten years ago. One of my personal vices is that I loathe organized exercise (jogging, etc). YES, I have started many "personal fitness programs" in my life - jogging, walking, biking, etc - but in the end I gradually slack off and stop. It's a personal vice. It's not something someone can "make me see the light" simply by giving me a pep talk and saying, "Well, you really ought to!" It's a vice like drinking or gambling or even wife beating. It's tough for people who live alone (as I do) to overcome these personal vices because there is no one around to ride me 24x7. No one but me sees what I do on a day to day basis - there is no one to grab me by the collar and order to me to stick to my exercise regimine. This is one of the reasons men who live alone tend to drink way too much and turn into alcoholics - that is NOT a vice of mine, but it's related because there is no one present to ride me with "tough love" and ensure I stick to what I start. 

Same with diet and eating - I do NOT "overeat" as such (binge eat, stuff myself, etc) but practically every day I consume a BIT more calories than I need. This is surprisingly easy to do. Exceeding your metabolic needs by just 50 calories a day (1/4 cup of milk, 1/3 of a banana, 2/3 of a slice of bread) means you'll gain about five pounds per year. 

Then there's the killer job. I'm paid a nice salary and killer benefits. I was just doing my taxes yesterday with my accountant. We had to do a Schedule C because of the expenses and income associated with Breaking Seas. I told him I'm working on another book and maybe someday I can quit my job. He laughed long and hard. He told me I had better not quit my job, because I would never find another like it . . . ever. Not at my age. Not in this economy (which is not likely to improve in the forseeable future, people are starting to understand). So I have all this travel and job pressure, which makes it far tougher to "begin a fitness program" because there is no chance at developing a daily ROUTINE when you travel an average of twice per month.

The only "realistic" chance is if my novel coming out in November is a huge success, and I CAN quit my job, and devote myself to fitness 24x7.


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## lostsheep

I just finished your book as well. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I can totally relate to your character. I have never sailed in my life, other than a weekend scuba charter in Santa Barbara many years ago. I too, have been mildly obsessed with sailing since a youngster. I also am no big hit with the ladies. Kind of a loner. So, your book struck an immense chord with me. 
Learned a lot from it, actually.
My conclusion is like sailguy's, I think you took too big a bite, right off the bat. Your vessel was a moneypit, and you put yourself on a schedule that was nearly unreachable. You probably should have bought the boat (or a boat), found your closeby liveaboard marina, and stayed aboard for at least a year. No apartment. Sailed every chance you could, and gradually made your passage. At least you're back wanting another boat, and to have another go at it. Perseverance!

I also think that you were somewhat undermined by some of the crew you chose.
"Joyce", seemed quite capable, but she often set you up for failure. For example, her refusal to properly utilize the head just added more fuel to the failure fire. As first mate (self-proclaimed!), and experienced as she was, she should have supported you a bit more. Granted, you were the Captain, but a good leader relies on his crew and draws from their knowledge as well. She seemed to undermine you every chance she got. Indeed, seemed to enjoy your calamity.
I danced when you boobytrapped her computer.

You have some giant guardian angels. I thought mine were big, but yours are huge! 
Excellent story.
Thanks


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## glenndamato

Thanks, Lostsheep! Please consider writing a short review on Amazon. With a first book, those good reviews really help a lot!

Joyce also taught me a lot about sailing and planning - I did not emphasize that in the book - there's lots of detail I could have included, but it was already very long for a memoir by someone who is not famous and did not have access to famous people or historic events (96,000 words) so I did not want to keep adding to it. Plus, we don't know how the trip would have turned out without Joyce. I could have ended up with a crew of three or four who were far worse . . . guys who just jumped ship for a better vessel. Joyce could have caught a Grayhound to San Diego at any point and crewed a MUCH better vessel, and dry too!

When I bought the boat in July 2001 it was my plan to live aboard, both to save time and money. But in the Bay area at that time, the only marina I could find with an available slip and a live aboard waiting list was Loch Lomond, a two-hour drive from my apartment (one way!). The waiting list was reported to be two years long, but in reality, the wait could have been a lot longer. The drive to and from the boat was killing me - even though it was about 40 miles as the crow flies, there was no way to get there other than a straight shot through the city. Horrible. 

By February 2003 I found a slip just one exit from my job in Redwood City, AND the marina was owned by a property management company that also ran the apartment complex built around the marina (Bair Island Marina). It was all brand new! And the rent was $800 less for a better apartment than I was renting in Sunnyvale, so it was a no brainer. My boat was now a five minute walk from my front door. This was like living aboard, only sleeping in a real bed, with a real kitchen, etc. 

I believe more marina have been built in the Redwood City area and they are more lienient with having livaboards than in the past - not sure.

Cheers,

Glenn


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## JoeDiver

glenndamato said:


> - I did not emphasize that in the book - there's lots of detail I could have included, but it was already very long for a memoir ......


You could always start a thread here with little nuggets that didn't make the book.....call it Breaking Wind.....or something.....


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## glenndamato

Well, Joe, I guess that's what THIS thead is, right?


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## emcentar

I read the book (Kindle version) last weekend. I had very mixed feelings about it.

On one hand, it is great to read a first-hand experience of what really happens when a complete newbie with big dreams just decides to go for it and try to make it happen with little experience. I've been hanging around Sailnet for a few years, and you do see a *lot* of posts by folks who have never been on a sailboat (or barely) and want to 'sail around the world' and experience 'complete freedom'. Then there will be a long thread with a lot of talk and then you seldom see the OP again. I always wonder what happened to those people, and this book was an excellent tale of what happens when those dreams encounter the reality of sailing. For that reason, I bet I will be recommending this book to such folks when they show up at Sailnet.

On the other hand, the long sections regarding Glenn's dating failures and repeated speeches on his inability to be attracted to anyone who deviates too far in either age or dimensions from a porn star wear thin, and really detract from the story. I'm sure he's just describing the way he feels, but it's a profoundly depressing dialogue on a number of levels, and I won't be recommending this book to female friends. Every female character in the book is seen through the fun-house mirror of Glenn's perspective, and not surprisingly, none of them come off better for it. More than anything else after reading this book, I wanted Joyce's side of the story.


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## glenndamato

Emcentar,

Thanks for your comments about Breaking Seas. I wrestled long and hard with the issue of how much "personal non-sailing" information to put in the book. I decided (correctly, I believe) that the personal issues were central to the story and it would not be anything close to the same story (or a true story) without the personal sections, which were vital to my motivation to leave the land to begin with.

To write a "just the sailing, please" sort of book would have walked away from way too much irony. And it's SO ironic: the guy who couldn't get a girlfriend ends up on a boat alone with four women, without deliberately evoking that situation. And none of the women were a suitable love interest. I wanted to "escape" rejection, but as I indicated near the end, going to sea actually increased my rate-of-rejections and they were not limited only to the women and romance category. What's the saying? "Wherever you go, there you are?" How many people try to escape themselves by going to sea? A well-known cruising writer (maybe one of the Pardeys) once warned: the sea has a way of amplifying your personal issues, not solving them.

This is the way the real world works - and I wanted to write a book that was real.

The vast majority of the feedback has been favorable and encouraging, and after eight months the book is a top seller in the sailing category, bouncing around the top 4 or 5 or so. The negative reviews are along the lines of "what a loser" or people who felt that since I did not sail around the world, I have no business writing such a book. Ironically, I wondered about that for years, figuring the fact that I turned around at Cabo would make the book unsatisfying. It was my close friends who finally convinced me to write the book back in Dec 2011. They were quite enthusiastic that it would be a popular and appreciated book, and although I had my doubts, it turns out they were right.

I also wanted to write an "underdog" story to inspire people who are older and have unfulfilled dreams but they're intimidated by the people who have been doing what they want to do for decades. To some extent, this is a class issue: many of us who grew up in blue-collar families without a lot of money reach our 40's without ever having partaken in a BIG hobby, such as flying or sailing or skiing or travel to other continents. Up to that point, life had been a struggle to survive, and there was no extra money for those things. Suddenly the money comes - but there is that pit in the bottom of the stomach. Won't I look foolish? I've never done anything like that before - and these people (from affluent families) have been doing it since they were six. They're going to laugh at me!

Well, do it anyway.

Thank you to everyone who has supported Breaking Seas! I am working on a second book, a novel, nothing about sailing: it's a futuristic adventure intended for the 13-17 age group but suitable for adults too - I think sailors would love it!

This last weekend I created a Facebook page for Breaking Seas (something I should have done a long time age). Please consider visiting the page (it's very basic right now) and "liking" it. I am adding to it and once it gets more likes it will be promoted.

www.facebook.com/breakingseas

Kind regards,

Glenn


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## deeman

Glenn - I'm glad I found this thread. I only read about 2 books a year since I have a horrible attention span but your book kept me hooked right to the end. GREAT JOB!! 

I highly recommend this book. I thought the interactions with Joyce and Megan were funny and you did a great job of capturing the situations. The ending was a bit depressing for me since your enthusiasm for sailing, rebuilding the boat and your experience with the ladies are very similar to my own experiences and the "to-hell with the world, I am living my dream" didn't totally pan out. It made me question my own hopes and more importantly my EXPECTATIONS of doing what you set off to do.

Anyhow, great work!!


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## Jaydv

Interesting read for sure. May want to be a serious sailor or not after reading it


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## glenndamato

Thanks Deeman! Glad to hear you liked the book. I guess the story overall proves "where ever you go, there you are!"

If I was to re-write the book, I would make it more clear why I tolerated Joyce. She was incredibly knowledgeable and she taught me a lot - she was a part time sailing instructor and today she is a licensed master.

I am working on another book this year - a futuristic adventure novel. Sounds hokey but I'm making it realistic and gritty. I feel there is an untapped market for young adult sic-fi that is technically accurate and authentic. Too many paranormal and magical stories out there - what are the science-minded teens supposed to read?

Since you liked the book, please consider doing a review on Amazon or GoodReads. I appreciate it - those reviews really help with a first book!

Fair winds,

Glenn


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## manatee

glenndamato said:


> I am working on another book this year - a futuristic adventure novel. Sounds hokey but I'm making it realistic and gritty. I feel there is an untapped market for young adult sic-fi that is technically accurate and authentic. Too many paranormal and magical stories out there - what are the science-minded teens supposed to read?


Heinlein, Clarke, Clement, Asimov, Niven, Hogan?  These are the authors I recommended at Barnes & Noble. Is yours like one of Heinlein's yearly 'juveniles' like "Starman Jones" and "The Rolling Stones"? Need a proofreader? 

re: another boat - I've been reading boatbuilding books and websites for years, doing my homework before taking the boatbuying plunge. My brother built fiberglass boats for several years. Boats made with woven roving are heavier than foam- or balsa-cored boats, but they are orders of magnitude stronger. After every storm when I go to Hollywood beach, I find chunks of 'glass-covered foam that used to be someone's dream boat.

I've enjoyed your story & this thread. Good luck!


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## glenndamato

Thanks manatee! I guess you can say it's Heinlein, Clarke, and Hogan, but in my own style, which I hope is gritty and authentic. One of the things that annoys me about space fiction of any kind is that none of the modern writers can think of a REASON to settle off-planet EXCEPT to escape an Earth "ravaged by ecological catastrophe" - or invading aliens. Pick one. How many times can they do that? 

There have been a handful of people who have tried to write accurate space fiction over the last thirty years but they are spectacularly unimaginative, cribbing their material from back issues of Popular Science and articles about what NASA plans. You know what? NASA is boring. Astronauts are boring (they really are, Buzz excepted). The old space stereotypes are deadly boring, and the term "mission control" is so lame. 

Nobody has written decent space fiction for decades, although Hogan and Steele came close - they both petered off, browbeaten by their agents to produce material "with more broad appeal" (dumbed down). I will not do aliens, monsters, zombies, ghosts, ancient pyramid codes, or space vampires either. 

Watch the Breaking Seas Facebook page for more info as the book gets closer to release.

Thanks for your support!


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## manatee

Steele's first few were fun. Have you read Ben Bova's "Mars" books? 

Look forward to your new book. Do you have a title?


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## glenndamato

I did, a long time ago. Good example of what I consider boring. No new ideas. Same old astronaut stereotypes. Bova wrote some interesting stuff decades ago (what was the title of his move-the-Earth novel?) but "Mars" was dishwater dull - Robinson's Mars series not much better. No real drama. Heinlein understood how to combine human drama with a unique setting and imaginary culture - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best example. Heinlein's Luna busted the old stereotypes - he did not write about an Air Force base on the moon, which everyone else was doing, but a penal colony, populated by a culture developed uniquely for Mars. That's not what I'm doing, but it's a fine example of a true imaginative work and a fascinating read that transports you outside of your normal realm. Nowadays, writers can't seem to do that unless they evoke the paranormal. There seem to be two choices: If you're going to write about Mars, there better be alien-ghost thingies there to take over your brain, OR if you want to do "realistic" sic-fi, your technology and characters must be cribbed from NASA and the ISS. In fact, just transport the whole damn ISS to Mars, make sure you have your stock characters (the arrogant ex-fighter pilot, the beautiful lady physicist who is self-assured and womanly at the same time, etc) and have them say "mission control" at least every other page. Ugh!


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## HaleyF

I read this book over the weekend while waiting out the thunderstorms. I loved the sailing parts - very exciting and as mentioned already, the language used is friendly and I feel like even non-sailors could follow along and enjoy it. The writing was really good for a first time author. Good job dude!

I did not however enjoy the parts about the ladies. Especially the continued jabs at their weight and looks. I get wanting to make it realistic and true, but I thought it was kind of mean. I feel like there was enough drama in the sailing that you didn't need the added discourse with characters we never really had enough time to get to know - one of the reasons I think the women all came off as kind of terrible.


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## glenndamato

Haley,

Thanks for your input, and glad to hear that (for the most part) you liked the book! The parts with the female crew members should not be taken in a vacuum. Overall, it fits in with the original reasons I decided to quit everyday life, in an ironic way: I was, myself, judged on my body. It's a human characteristic. Also, nearly all men will agree with me, they often observe that it is acceptable for females to be negative about a man's appearance ("Oh, he's too short for me,") and other traits outside of appearance, but the same sort of judgments coming from men are, for some reason, unacceptable or rude. This double standard irks men but it is rarely, if ever, broached in mass media. 

Have to run to the airport now but I will be watching this thread for comments from anyone.

Best regards,

Glenn


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## HaleyF

I don't really want to get into a gender politics discussion - as a young women in tech I've gotten into this several times with much aggravation on both sides haha. I think having a "type" is fine. You judge women based on your standards, they judge you based on theres'. All good.

But you referred to "Megan" as a butch Rosie O'Donnell and extremely obese (and then mentioned she was the same size as you) several times. At length. Kinda harsh is all I'm saying.


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## caberg

glenndamato said:


> nearly all men will agree with me, they often observe that it is acceptable for females to be negative about a man's appearance ("Oh, he's too short for me,") and other traits outside of appearance, but the same sort of judgments coming from men are, for some reason, unacceptable or rude.


Dude, you got a real chip on your shoulder for the opposite sex.


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## davidpm

Actually the attitude part was what drew me to the book. Glen obviously knows it is politically incorrect to judge women by their looks just like he knows it stinks when people judge him by his looks. 
He is also fully aware of the irony of the situation.
He also knows his chances of finding a 22 year old 110 lb yoga instructor to fulfill his dreams.

There are all kinds of studies that show that no matter how politically correct we want to be we make judgments about others we may not even be aware of.

I know I do. The difference between me and Glen is that I'm not typically willing to admit it.

His attitudes about women shaped the story a great deal. Yes it is a a little painful to read but without it we would not have really heard enough the story to even make sense.


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## glenndamato

@Haley: Did I really use the term "butch" and the name "Rosie O'Donnel" together? That would have been redundant! 

@David: Yeah, you're right, without the personal issues (of various kinds, the women thing being just the main one) it would not have been the same story, or even an interesting story, just instead merely a cruising log - and a short one at that.

The number of people who read books avidly - especially fiction - has been steadily decreasing for decades. One of the reasons for that, I suspect, is that authors and publishing companies have grown timid. They choose to "play it safe" by telling the same stories over and over, with different names and settings - stories that have been stripped of any hint of any truly controversial topic, or that use faux controversial topics in their stead. A faux controversy is one which 99-percent of everyone you'll come in contact with will agree: "Should men be allowed to beat their wives?" or "Should black people be discriminated against in stores and restaurants?" 

If writers started stirring minds, imaginations and emotions as they once did, maybe their books will be able to compete with the latest video game or episode of Honey Boo Boo.


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## caberg

Actually, here is the author's Rosie O'Donnell comparison: "Physically she was on the pudgy side, but it was a dainty sort of female pudgy as opposed to Megan's rough-and-tumble Rosie O'Donnell biker-chick heftiness." (Sorta neat to be able to search e-books.)

I'm not personally offended by the repeated jabs like this--he can write whatever he wants--but for me it only adds to the off-putting feeling of pretentiousness which exists in this story. Some people (think stand up comics) can pull this off. This story does not.

Now, I'm not sure if the author is suggesting that his story is part of some literary revolution aimed at "stirring minds, imaginations and emotions as they once did," but if so, that sort of reinforces my thoughts about all this. An easy worthwhile read? Sure. A work of literary fiction? No.


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## glenndamato

@caberg: You're over-evaluating this. The reason that description is so "precise" is practical. "Megan" (not her real name of course) was gross. She was not just "average looking." She was not "the girl next door." She was gross. Masculine. Seriously. I wanted to make it clear I was not one of those men who "only dates 22-year old 108 lbs supermodels with high cheekbones and green eyes," as many people assume. Understanding this issue is crucial because it followed me throughout the trip, and before: I just could not catch a break with my luck with women. I portrayed this not to be "literary" or write some kind of literary classic (!) but just to write an honest book. Which probably has a lot to do with it's popularity.


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## ShoalFinder

caberg said:


> Actually, here is the author's Rosie O'Donnell comparison: "Physically she was on the pudgy side, but it was a dainty sort of female pudgy as opposed to Megan's rough-and-tumble Rosie O'Donnell biker-chick heftiness."


Now, I laughed out loud when I read that part of the book because it painted a picture that even Stevie Wonder could see. In fact, what I think I like the most about the book was Glenn's sharp wit and his blunt sense of humor. The thing Glenn does exceedingly well is to paint a visual picture that the reader can relate to. I still to this day laugh when I imagine a beer-swilling Burt Reynolds peeing over the side every ten minutes. Not that I would love to hang out with a beer-swilling, Lefty-ranting, Burt Reynolds sailor because I probably wouldn't. Then again, he sounded like a pretty okay guy and a good sailor. I spent my formative years dragging guys like that back to the liberty boat to keep them from going to Captain's Mast. But the picture in my mind is perfectly clear. I feel like I've met the guy.

Perhaps it's a personal thing. I don't have to agree with an author to appreciate the story. In the context of a book a character simply is who he is, and that's the point. Whether one finds the character flawed or personally distasteful is beside the point. Let's not turn Glenn into the Marquis de Sade, because that is an example of the same kind of overblown judgemental hyperbole that Glenn is being accused of.


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## emcentar

Myself, I found the descriptions of women in the book much more depressing than funny.


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## glenndamato

@ShoalFinder: Thanks for your post! You understand all -

@emcentar: Please forgive me, didn't mean to be a downer. Shot for honesty throughout the book, especially when I was the culprit (which was most of the time!).


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## Ranthra

Glenn - Finished the book last night. A review was posted on Amazon this morning. Thanks for the insights to the workings of Amazon.

I enjoyed the book more than any of the dozen or so other sailing adventure books I've read. The storytelling was captive and identifiable. Lots of funny events that all sailors can relate to.

As I read the book, I was surprised of the bluntness in describing the crew members and wondered what their reactions were about the details. Thanks for addressing that in this thread. I will not comment on the relationship issues. It's not my business or area of expertise, and you seem to have reached a point of satisfied acceptance.

BTW, I do agree with your assessment of composting heads. I chose the C-Head model due to the use of common milk jugs and 5 gallon buckets for collection. I appreciate that design approach, and they are not visible when in use as they are contained within the main housing. There is comfort in knowing that my head cannot flood the bilge or sink the boat. Emptying the contents is much less offensive and more sanitary than messing with pump-outs.

Anyway, I appreciate the honesty in the book. Sailing isn't always as glamorous as we'd like. I am a weekend and over-niter coastal cruiser, and that satisfies my dreams for now. But someday...


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## glenndamato

Thanks for your note and your Amazon review, Ranthra! Only a few people in the book have their real names: me, my brother and his family, Tweety, Jon, and Duffy (I changed his last name). Everyone else has a pseudonym. "Doug" and I keep in touch - he is outfitting his own 36' sloop in Florida now, at age 71, invited me to sail some time - he is a private person and does not have anything to say about the book, and he is not interested in collaborating with me on a book about HIS experiences outfitting and sailing alone as a senior. "Joyce" and I keep in touch too - true to form, she demanded a free copy of the book and I sent her one. She took the cover photo, used with her permission. 

If I had to write the book over I would make it more clear that Joyce was worth having on board. People remember the conflicts. I also should have been more clear on the fact that the troubles we had with the head were MY fault, because I permitted my crew to use it incorrectly, and four adults are too many for one composting head - we would need two - even if we used it perfectly. Glad to hear you are using one. Probably beats the nastiness of the standard system.

I am still in Marina del Rey and "feeling the pull," but I hesitate to quit my job as I did nine years ago because in our modern economy (and at age 53+) I will not be able to get another one like it, at a similar salary, ever. 

Working on a novel this year, nothing about sailing, but it's still an adventure story. my intended audience are young adults, although it will be suitable for adults too. 

Keep in touch - fair winds -

Glenn


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## ShoalFinder

Glenn, whatever you do- please come back here when you release a new book. I really enjoyed this one and I'm a fan.

As to the things you say you'd change- I'm not sure why. I thought Joyce came across as very sincere and extremely knowledgeable, even if her personality belongs to a guy who drives a tow truck. She is who she is. That's what makes the world go 'round. The way I read the book, you learned a lot from her even if her presentation was gruff or even combative at times. Her demanding a free copy of the book made me laugh! I would not have expected anything other than that from her. And why not, right? She's a big part of the story. It would be pretty crappy of you not to oblige. Not "dumping the head in the salon" crappy, but crappy.

John


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## glenndamato

John,

Oh, she got her free copy! She also gave me written permission to use her photo on the cover (she took the photo, so legally she owns it). We are still in touch. Many people who read the book, especially in the Amazon reviews, wanted to know why I "put up with" her, so I took from that the notion I did not do a good job in portraying her contributions. I guess different people get different impressions.

I was looking at boats on the internet last night, and I cam AWFUL close to going out to see a Hans Christian 36 today. In many ways, it makes sense to buy a boat with a modern, faster hull. But something in me says if you're going to spend around $60-80,000 on a used boat, PLUS all the added expense involved in buying and owning ($$$$$), the aesthetic appeal factor better be right. The traditional hulls and deck layouts are so appealing to me, even though I know those boats are slower (especially to weather) and have smaller cockpits (a plus in rough weather but a distinct minus when you want to take three friends to Catalina for the weekend). I just fall in love . . . especially when you're talking a furling main AND re-powered in 2007. 

Now is the time to buy - it's a soft market. Must . . . resist . . .


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## imasaluki

Glenn, 

I read your book about a year ago and if we ever cross paths I would like to buy you a beverage. Thanks for joining Sailnet and putting up with our caca.... I like your bluntness and willingness to do what you want to do even if it is the exact opposite of what you set out to do. Sometimes cutting losses is a big gain. Hope you get to sailing again soon.

Josh


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## glenndamato

Thanks Josh! Drop me a note if you are ever in LA. Who knows, maybe there will be a boat then! "Doug" from the book actually set up his own sloop in Florida for Gulf sailing, at age 71!!! He turned down my proposal to collaborate on a book about him. Too bad!


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## Tim Newman

On the basis of this thread, I've just bought this book for the Kindle. I'll let you know what I thought of it when I'm done, but I'm looking forward to reading it!


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## ShoalFinder

Glenn, I totally get "resisting the urge" to buy a boat.

I sold mine last spring and I've yet to replace it. On the one hand, every day is like being a kid looking out of the window on a rainy day feeling like I'm in a land-locked cage. On the other hand, every day feels like payday because I think of all the money I didn't spend on my boat today.

It's tough. If a pile of cash fell in my lap unexpectedly I'd probably go into crack-fiend mode and buy the first pretty boat I saw that would leave me enough to moor it somewhere. 

I'm with you on the old classic boats. My tastes tend toward boats that look so old-school salty that Popeye would feel proud to show it to Poopdeck Pappy. But brass and teak is a full time job on top of everything else, so reality drives me toward the most vanilla plain bleach bottle I can find. "Maintenance Free" has a beauty all its own. Admittedly, it's an aquired taste. It's only ugly at the dock, right? I can't see the outside when I'm sailing it.

It's every sailor's romantic goal to sail around 5 capes. But there are way more hot chicks splashing around South Florida than Cape Horn. So maybe the boat that is actually fun to use as a party barge is more practical.


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## glenndamato

Good to hear, Tim! Hope you like it!


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## casioqv

ShoalFinder said:


> On the one hand, every day is like being a kid looking out of the window on a rainy day feeling like I'm in a land-locked cage


I know how you feel, I sold my boat to focus more on other responsibilities but only lasted a month before I made an offer on another one.


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## Tim Newman

smackdaddy said:


> And every story I've ever read about multiple people ending up in a liferaft has involved the shock at how small it is.


I can confirm that. I've done a sea survival course, part of which involved 8 grown men having to haul themselves into a life raft, one of those octagonal inflatable ones with the canopy over the top. We have to do this to fly offshore in helicopters, in addition to the submerged capsule escape training.

Anyway, we were in a warm swimming pool (it was in Nigeria) and in the most benign conditions you can imagine, and we were in the liferaft for about 5 mins tops. It was as miserable as sin, there was *no* room whatsoever, and you have to sit with your back to the wall, knees up to your chest, feet in the middle. Even after a few minutes you could feel the cramp starting to set in.

Also...as part of the same training, and again in some other facility induction course, I've had to do the lifeboat drills for getting off an oil and gas facility in one of the orange fibreglass lifeboats. We never actually lowered them, but I've been inside two kinds: the one lowered on davits, and the free-fall kind. When you get inside them, you look at the room available, then the capacity stenciled on the wall outside, then back to the room available, and then back to the stencil. Then you cheerfully ask which wag put a zero on the end of the stencil. Honestly, they are as hot as hell inside even with only 6-7 people in (instead of the capacity of 60). With the sea state and the engine fumes, people would be chucking up everywhere, it must be gopping being in there for real.

The free-fall one was worse...you strap into the seats at a weird angle with your head between the legs of the guy behind you. There is absolutely no room to move, the seats are hard plastic, and it is claustrophobic as hell. I couldn't imagine 60 people cramming in there with the rig exploding behind you...

Anyway, the point: a liferaft is designed to keep you alive, just. By that, I mean blood is pumping through the vital organs and air is getting to the lungs. But that's about it, no more. The things are designed with the assumption that you'll be picked up in a few hours, days at the most. But even a few hours would be the most miserable experience of your life, although you would at least live to tell the tale. I'd avoid having to use one at all costs, really.


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## Sal Paradise

Loved the book. Bought the kindle version. The women were a little scary. My one criticism is you could have treated Megan with more empathy in the book, and in real life. Major kudos for the sail back though. Muy muy macho. You have some guts man. 


Glen, are you doing a fitness/weight loss book next?


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## weinie

Glenn,
Thanks for a great read! Just finished the kindle version today.

I didn't read through all the posts here so I'm not sure if this was already covered but...

Peter Gibbons? Didn't he work at Initech with Bob Porter?
And couldn't you work Lumbergh into the story too?

oh and Larry Wilcox?
heheh


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## catchinrays

I fall into the "just bought a boat with no experience" category....and I haven't ruled out the sail-up-the-coast-of-Florida-and-sell-the-boat possibility - we hope we go further than that and that we have the fortitude for this to last many years. But we'd rather try it while we can than to spend the rest of our lives with the regret that we _didn't_ try it.

Watch the transformation at Catchin' Rays


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## GMC

I was home recently sick in bed and bought the Kindle version of Glenn's book. He is a very good writer and I enjoyed the book for a lot of reasons. Beyond the boat preparation and the sailing, the book made its strongest impression on me with the honest telling of the feelings of the author's experiences of rejection and being ignored. He didn't have to tell the story about when he and his brother were young and he was left out by the neighbor girls who were only interested in his brother, but he did. He talks about the "drive by" rejection that prompted his adventure. He talks about the continued rejection by a potential crew member in another sort of "drive by" incident. He can't find crew in Mexico, etc. This stuff is excruciating to read about, much less experience. I think he wanted to talk about these things as much as about anything else. What this highlights for me is how rejection early and throughout one's life shapes a life and a person's perceptions of the world. You can become a docile, obliging person. You can become a comedian who seeks to laugh away the pain. You can become cynical. You can become homicidal. You can become cruel. You can be a mix of all these things. The instinct of self protection can manifest itself in a lot of ways. Seeing how Glenn copes with this obviously sensitive part of his life was fascinating and as I said, well written. The book will make me more sensitive to individuals who on first impression appear rude or clueless or antagonistic to others. There is usually more going on there and the author proved that. I am sure that he does not want to hear this (but maybe he does in that he told of his pain), but I feel bad for him and I hope he finds a woman to share his life with. I hope that he does not give up. I am optimistic because, had he become too closed off or too angry or too cynical, he would not have ventured out. He seems to be still growing and willing to try, which can't be said of everyone. I am not a psychologist, just relating what struck me about this very interesting "sailing" book.


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## jhaley66

I recently read "Breaking Seas" and, coincidentally, faced the same failed impeller problem while on a charter in the Gulf of Thailand in January. The captain of the boat took the fresh water pump and re-routed the sea water lines around the water pump to the fresh water pump. The boat's batteries are just forward of the engine, so he ran the fresh water pump wires right to the batteries. The system worked great for the several hours we needed to motor to get to Salak Paet, Koh Chang for a new impeller.

Being at anchor vs a lee shore made it a much more relaxed exercise!


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## TakeFive

jhaley66 said:


> I recently read "Breaking Seas" and, coincidentally, faced the same failed impeller problem while on a charter in the Gulf of Thailand in January. The captain of the boat took the fresh water pump and re-routed the sea water lines around the water pump to the fresh water pump. The boat's batteries are just forward of the engine, so he ran the fresh water pump wires right to the batteries. The system worked great for the several hours we needed to motor to get to Salak Paet, Koh Chang for a new impeller.
> 
> Being at anchor vs a lee shore made it a much more relaxed exercise!


Yes, that was a flash of brilliance on his part. Especially noteworthy for an admitted newb with relatively little practical experience. Not sure I would have thought of that.


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## glenndamato

"Bob Porter" was one of the "Bobs" that Peter had his "meeting with the Bobs" with. Good catch!


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## glenndamato

It's great that he found a replacement out in the Pacific, without ordering it and waiting for it.


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## jhaley66

Here is a photo of the end result.


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## glenndamato

Thanks! But not really brilliance - Doug and I had built the bilge pumping systems including the hoses, and I had replaced all the hoses associated with the engine - fuel and raw water. I was familiar with all the the hoses and I knew they were both the same inside diameter. It shows the importance of being completely familiar with your systems!


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## glenndamato

Those hose clamps come in handy - nice to have a box of various sizes. We used black rubber hose on Serenity.


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## krisscross

Glen, I bought your book a while ago, but only read it recently over about weeks time. 
I liked it a lot. Very honest account, well written, lots of good info and ideas for less experienced sailors, good sense of humor. Money well spent. 

But... if you don't mind me being honest, the way you treated "Megan" struck me as really cold. Sure she was fat and ugly, I can understand why you did not want to get involved with her romantically. But she was a good crew to you and a fellow human being. She put herself out there for you, willing to offer you what we all cherish most, a gift of our true companionship. Yet, you showed her no heart, and no respect. You did not even want to talk to her about it, choosing instead a silent rejection. You showed her about as much heart and respect as all these pretty women who did a drive-by rejection, or equivalent, on you. Dude, that is wrong. Of all the people in the world, one would think that you knew how it feels to be rejected that way. 
Most of the time folks get what they deserve. And unless we learn how to treat others with kindness and respect, other people will not treat us that way. The way I see it, "Megan" was the big test for you when it comes to women, and you, my friend, failed that test. I'm sure you don't give a hoot about an advice on life from some unknown dude, but here it is: 

Treat others like you would want to be treated if you were in their place.
Fat and ugly people have feelings too.


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## glenndamato

Krisscross,

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed Breaking Seas, but I have to disagree with your judgment on how I treated Megan (not her real name). This is probably due to how I wrote the final scene between her and I. In my inexperience as a writer, I didn't write the scene clearly enough to get across to some readers what happened. 

It was not a "silent rejection" at all. If you re-read that last scene between us, I do mention that I tried to explain my feelings to her as tactfully as I knew how, but her reaction was violent and abusive. For example, she insulted me and called me names, while I had always been polite and friendly to her.

When I was writing that scene (when Joyce leaves us alone on the boat and Megan appears in a skimpy nightgown before dinner) I tried to put down the conversation between us but it sounded all wrong to me. I couldn't figure out how to do it right, convey her reaction. So I condensed it a bit, then went right to the following morning.

You can debate that this was poor narrative technique and maybe you're right, but I didn't have the skill to do it otherwise - I believed it was an effective compromise. 

Anyhow, from my perspective, I was polite to Megan 100-percent of the time, without ever a single unkind word passing my lips. I did not tell her I found her completely unattractive, even though that was the case. I believed that if I continued to treat her nicely but platonically (as I would a sister or a female cousin or adult niece) she would understand and behave in a mature manner.

When the time came that I had to explain to her, carefully and tactfully, that I wanted to keep our relationship friendly but platonic, and I valued her as a sailing partner, she would not accept that and she reacted as a child would. 

Some people (not necessarily you!) will refuse to accept this and come back at me, "Too bad, you're the man, it was your obligation to accept her as a sexual partner if that was her choice, and if you rejected her that was a cruel and inhuman thing to do!"

If that's your position, I can't change your mind.

One more thing: note that when I discussed my own situation, I took a mature and realistic view. I admitted that I was a short and unathletic man and I was pretty picky about my dates, when I could get them. I accepted this and I did not call the women who rejected me "cruel" or even "shallow" - I simply accepted it and went from there.

Hope that helps -

Again, thanks for your kind words about the book. I finished a novel this year - I'm going to revise it and find a publisher. Nothing about sailing, but it's an adventure story all the same. 

Best regards,

Glenn


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## krisscross

Glen, if that is the case, I stand corrected. Somehow I missed that in your book, or - as you say - it was a part not well described. Still, when it comes to describing women and your experiences with them, I got the impression that you lay your bad luck with them squarely on your looks. Sure, for some 95% of women looks make or break the deal and they can't help it. But I wonder if part of your problem is the way you act around them. And that is something you can learn to be better at. But you might have to practice it on 'less then your ideal' girls. Remember, while wolves prefer to hunt deer, they learn their skills catching mice. 
You have a good job, make decent money, you are a smart guy, your not a loser - there are many decent looking women who would give you a chance. Who knows, eventually you might even snag a real prize catch. But you have to practice catching mice first. 

Glad to hear you have not given up on sailing. I'm sure this time around you will be much smarter in your choices and expectations. Same with women: one ugly but thorough experience will teach you a lot.


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## glenndamato

Krisscross, I act fine. For most of my life I've held public contact jobs that require a fairly adequate personality (instructor, sales, etc.)! Most people who know me think I'm a fine and empathetic and courteous person. But I like pretty women (or those who are pretty to me). And here is a fact: a pretty woman will get the most handsome and physically fit man she can get. If one doesn't work, she will move on to the next. Yes, looks matter. They matter very much! There's no getting around it. 

Look, I'm over this stuff. The events of the book occurred over ten years ago. I have my health, my friends, family, financial security, and I'm looking forward to establishing a reputation as a fiction author. Many people who know me (married people!) say, "I'd give anything to have your life." It's a pretty good life, with lots of freedom. I'm happy and satisfied with it. No, I am not willing to "settle" for a woman for whom I am not sexually attracted. My life is no less for not wanting to do that. In short, it is quite feasible for a man to live a good and productive life without having to mold his existence around a woman.

Thanks again for your input,

Happy New Year!

Glenn


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## krisscross

OK, I get it. 
Best of luck writing fiction novels, Glen. I almost never care to read them, but they seem to sell.


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## smackdaddy

Glen - buy another boat dammit! I wanna see another composter explosion.


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## Sal Paradise

I did buy the book and I also found the interactions with the women, particularly the part about Megan, a little depressing. It's not so much a judgement on Glenn or any of them but for me as a reader - I was glad that I am married. I don't think I would fare very well today in the "meet market".

I also wonder if its because the number of women who will cruise on a sailboat is a very small slice of the population. It would be like hitting the lottery to find a woman who is single, not crazy , beautiful and likes to sail. 

For whatever reason, I think the part about rejecting Megan came across as particularly tough, especially the skimpy night gown scene. I think most guys reading that would imagine that silent rejection. Not realistic, but the readers imagination works that way. That part of the book could have used a bit more sympathy and some dialogue. 


Still, it was a great read. I enjoyed it and imagined myself along for the trip so you did a good job. I hope you post a link to your new book when you get it published.


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## Ajax_MD

Sal-

This can educate you on the "crazy/hot" matrix:





Enjoy.


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## glenndamato

Thanks smackdaddy . . . I may well do that, but I want to be able to get a boat that is NOT a "fixer-upper" like Serenity (don't want to spend two or three years fixing up) and I want to be able to develop an income source, however modest, that doesn't rely on a paycheck from a company (hopefully that income source won't have to be social security!). Even with a nest egg, I know what it feels like to be afloat with NO income source whatsoever, and it's an ugly feeling (to me!). I'm working on establishing myself as a fiction author - but I'm doing it the slow & hard way (taking my time to research and write a first novel) rather than quickly pound-out a story and self-publish it for a buck or two (way too many people already doing that).

Happy New Year,

Glenn


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