# West Marine no longer matching prices...



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

...quite as comprehensively as they used to.

They've rolled back their prior policy of matching Internet competitors, and now will only match brick-and-mortar stores located within 50 miles:



> If you find a lower price on an identical product (brand and model) currently in stock at a retail store located within 50 miles, West Marine will match that price (excluding shipping/handling charges or taxes) within 30 days of purchase, subject to the exclusions discussed below.


I learned this yesterday when I called to confirm that they have my chosen bottom paint in stock, and would match Defender's price. Unfortunately, they said no and informed me of the new policy effective March 1, 2013 (which I confirmed from their website).

It sounds like their new CEO is making some changes.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Defender is a brick and mortar store. I'll be shocked if they don't match them as the Westmarine's around here keep the Defender catalog behind the counter.

As far as I know, West has never matched all "internet" prices as anyone can show up with a print out of any crazy price.

I guess we shall see in the next couple of weeks...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RobGallagher said:


> Defender is a brick and mortar store. I'll be shocked if they don't match them as the Westmarine's around here keep the Defender catalog behind the counter.
> 
> As far as I know, West has never matched all "internet" prices as anyone can show up with a print out of any crazy price.
> 
> I guess we shall see in the next couple of weeks...


No need to wait - just call your local store. If your local WM store is within 50 miles of Defender's store, they'll match it.

When I called the store in New Castle, DE, I specifically told them that I wanted them to match Defender's prices on bottom paint, and they told me that they would only match brick and mortar stores within a 50 mile radius. That's the same as the new policy posted on their website.

They matched all of Defender's prices last year. They did not keep a catalog behind the counter - they just pulled up Defender's website on the cash register.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yep they all changed their policy March 1. The WM near us posted a sign in plate January about their change in policy


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

You are all a bunch of whingers, Oh what we would do for a West Marine, brick and mortar stores with your US prices. I could refit my boat for half the cost.  I guess I will just have to keep paying the postage for both WM and Defender.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't blame WM. It was a nice feature, but they simple need to determine if they lose a couple of sales to Defender, whether they make it up with pricing on the rest. Its business, that's the way it works. 

I try to buy things at my marina, just to keep the inventory there. That's ridiculously expensive, but equally convenient. When I need more, I drive over to the WM superstore. Kills me that Murphy insures the bin that has the one size I need is often empty, but the store has a ton of stuff and that's way more convenient than waiting for Defender to mail it to my house.

I also order from Defender, Jamestown Distributors and WM online. Not always due to price, but often due to which actually has what I'm looking for. More accurately, which has everything I'm looking for, so I don't have multiple orders to track and wait for. The distribution is pretty even over time.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Yeah, the new WM policy might work if they get more comptetive on standard pricing otherwise I'll just always order from Defender or Jamestown Dist.

In fact I just did. I'm replacing my water heater and even with shipping, Defender is about $85 cheaper, plus I avoid taxes so another 5% there.

I felt like the old policy of having to ask for the best price was like "We rip the other guy off and pass the savings to you" so I was never really a fan.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Fortunately, there is a West Marine not far from my home. I like its free ship to store policy, which makes its prices competitive to some of the other internet marine stores.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

The policy is truly odd as most brick and mortar retailers are putting in policies to match online pricing. Most are limiting it to a specific set of web sites who have legit pricing - ie. not loss leader pricing offset by outrageous shipping prices.

Make it a point of asking about price matching at WM. When they tell you no hang up the phone, leave the item on the counter. When managers start telling the regional reps people are walking out over this policy the policy will change.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If sales go down, that won't necessarily change the policy. Enough sales have to go down to reduce the profit below the old discounting plan. 

If leaving it on the counter is successful and revenue goes down to the point that they can't afford to have the brick and mortar, we all lose the convenience. Let's face it, the brick and mortar stores have more cost for a reason.

As far as saving the sales tax, I am certain that our federal government is going to close that loophole. I don't like it, because our tax policy is to take everything in every way we can think of, but I'm willing to bet on it happening.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Defender's prices seem to be right in line with everyone else now. With exorbitant shipping costs, prices are not all that great. West spends a LOT of money on their *great* catalog. It's almost a reference book. I appreciate their efforts to compile and send it every year. I have often found some good bargains at West brick and mortar stores that do not appear online. Jamestown also has a very complete catalog they send if you spend X # of dollars. There are some other internet sellers like Redden and LFS that have some prices way below Defender or West.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

They mail me the catalog from West Marine, Defender and Jamestown Distributors. I must spend too much.

I fully agree that prices really need to be compared after shipping. I forgot to mention that I've also started shopping for some things on Amazon, where free ground shipping is easy to earn. Spend $25 or more on qualified stuff and no shipping cost. There is sales tax. I just bought a bunch of varnishing things that way.

In the end, I like Amazon more because of its one stop shopping across many disciplines and that they store my address and payment info, so one click and I'm done.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

SimonV said:


> You are all a bunch of whingers, Oh what we would do for a West Marine, brick and mortar stores with your US prices. I could refit my boat for half the cost.  I guess I will just have to keep paying the postage for both WM and Defender.


Simon, I completely agree. When we had the boat at Scarborough Marina for several months I was astonished at the prices of almost everything. There were decent prices on many, not all, things made in Oz but that was it. One exception Ronstan gear was was expensive than at my local store in Canada.

Big Defender fan. We ordered a bunch of stuff (the joys of cheap USPS delivery) and they even knew the shipping address and waived a policy about maximum dollar value for foreign shipping. Their customer service reps are exceptionally good.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

I take the same approach as Minnewaska, I check amazon first. I can usually find 50-60% of my stuff at Amazon. 

For the rest, I generally avoid WM, wow expensive when compared to Defender and other Internet boating sites. I am actually quite lucky to be in Seattle with access to Fisheries Supply. Prices are slightly less than Defender but no shipping costs for me. 

The Fisheries Supply store (gigantic store) is a mess though with the occasional extremely grumpy employee. Some will actually avert their eyes if they see you coming and act very busy, really! Where as the Seattle flagship WM store in Lake Union is simply awesome. Very well organized and incredibly helpful staff. Sometimes the prices in Fisheries are half the price of WM.

I have found the best thing to do is to use the Fisheries website, order, then place in "will call". That works great. The Fisheries "will call" folks are very helpful and it is very easy to change your order once you go to the pick up desk. 

The Fisheries Supply website is kinda crappy though. They are working on it. If you are shopping at Defender check out the Fisheries Supply website to compare.


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## witzgall (Jan 9, 2007)

I think they made the change because the store managers complained every chance they had. They all are judged by metrics, like average $$$ per sale, average profit % per sale, etc, and this policy reduced their numbers.

Almost without exception, I was met with distain when I asked for a price match. This was the worst when dealing with the store managers themselves. The local manager here would complain loudly IN THE STORE about price matching, while I, and others shopped. I had another manger tell me they would gladly price match for some electronics purchases, but when I asked for the match, and told him of the website, he tried to get me to used a different, higher priced site for the price match. He actually took about 20 minutes of surfing the web for the items, looking at different prices, wasting my time, before he finally used the site I gave him. And it was not a fly by night organization's website.

If I was WM management, I would insist that the staff gleefully uphold whatever the company policies were, regardless of personal thoughts. This behavior was grounds for disciplinary action, in my opinion.

Chris


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

WM needs to either make it incredibly obvious what value they add to justify their higher prices or drop their prices to be competitive. This is the modern economy. Generally I am impressed with the service levels of WM but overall I can't personally justify the higher prices.

A good stock to short if you are into that sort of thing. I think WM is living a bit in the past. 

And yes, this is an over simplification, but feel free to flame away.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

West Marine's stock has been on a fairly steady rise since 2009. They're doing something right, although, their return on investment is not outrageous. The expense of maintaining their model is much higher than an internet provider.

There model is the convenience of their stores and the ability to see the stuff at a few hundred stores around the country, before you buy. That has some value, IMO. Hard to try on a foulie at Defender, for example.

Of course, they also have the Port Supply model for commercial vendors.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

SimonV said:


> You are all a bunch of whingers, .....


What's a "whinger"?


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

whinge (hwnj, wnj)
intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es Chiefly British
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.
[Dialectal alteration of Middle English whinsen, from Old English hwinsian.]
whinger n.
whinging·ly adv.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Dumb question- are West stores company owned or franchises?


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

I looked at some of their 10K's over the past few years. They look like they are doing fine, growing, interesting. Not what I expected. Their margins are even improving, again, interesting. Well, it seems many folks see their value and I don't get it. Good point about clothing though.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

kellysails said:


> WM needs to either make it incredibly obvious what value they add to justify their higher prices or drop their prices to be competitive...


Now you are hitting a hot button of mine. Like all brick and mortar stores, the value they provide is that you can go in and look at the item.

Personally, I believe that the practice of "showrooming" (looking at an item in a store and then purchasing it somewhere else online) is unethical, and I refuse to do it. If I look at an item in the store, I buy it from the store, at the store's asking price. And I have done that at WM many times - and did NOT ask for a price match. The reason I think showrooming is unethical is that I would be using the store's services for free, and then buying elsewhere. Do that enough, and there will no longer be any stores around to look at those items that you need to touch to make an informed decision.

However, certain commodity items, like boat paint, do not require a store visit. You can get all the info you need online and by calling the paint manufacturer. For items like paint, I used to ask WM to match their competitors's prices. With WM's new policy, this year I will buy my paint online from the cheapest supplier.

I will continue to do business with West Marine when I need to see the item. But for commodity stuff that I can decide on without visiting the store, I'll buy online.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

killarney_sailor said:


> Dumb question- are West stores company owned or franchises?


All the stores are company owned. BUT, if you go to some of the smaller stores, local for my anyhow Shilshoal, Gig Harbor, blaine, Port townsend to name a few vs Seattle-westlake, Tacoma or Anacortes, those smaller stores really only have the mgr and maybe one or two other full time people, so at that point, you are pretty much working with an owner type person. As they get raises, bonus's etc based on how that store does in overall sales and profits.

When there was one local, edmonds for me, I did buy a lot of stuff from Doug who is now the mgr at Shilshoal, very knowledgeable person. Granted teh store was small, but he could price equal or would see what he could do when you bought $500-1000 of stuff for a refit or equal. He did what he could, still does at shilshoal to get the sale. Westlake it is possible to do so, but the smaller ones will be easier persay.

As mentioned, if you have a company or any sort, you can get a port supply account, and get more off the normal depending upon how much you buy. I've seen discounts as much as 30-40% depending upon how much you buy per year, and what the item is. Electronics frankly, no matter where you got, profit margins are pretty skinny. Clothing is another story, as are some other items.

Also as mentioned, locally Fisheries is pretty good, but the last 3-5 yrs there have been some lower quantity supply issues etc......where as the local WM's are overall doing a better job. Both local bigger suppliers ea have plus and minus's to there operations. Fisheries if you belong to some of the local YC's that have cash accounts setup, you can get % discounts depending upon what the overall membership buys, more $$, more % off. Clubs can do the same with port supply too. But you will not always get the 5% rebate as WM offers members either.

While personally, buying online can be cheaper, overall, if I can get something local for with in 5-10%....I'll do it, as shipping makes up the difference a lot, along with a wait depending upon what I need and want.

At the end, no place is best for everything.

marty


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ......Do that enough, and there will no longer be any stores around to look at those items that you need to touch to make an informed decision.....


This is a point lost on many that dump on WM.


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## waterwks4me (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes, due to the number of WM stores, convience is a key factor as to customers using the store especially if time is an issue. But in general WM prices can be considerably more, as much as 20% more on some items that I have found and I believe WM uses this, the convience, for keeping their prices high. Before, whenever possible, I compare prices and use it to my advantage at WM when time was an issue. I believe it simply boils down to WM's profit margins. As long as the consumer is willing to dish out more money due to convience WM will continue to keep their prices high. I will continue to shop around to find the best price and give myself enough time to order and receive before starting the project.


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## Bradhamlet (Nov 8, 2002)

Im a retailer and let me tell the other side of the price matching story, their locations cost big bucks. A shop in Ohio is paying .25 sq/ft for rent, WM store is paying 3.00 sq/ft for this location near the water and has to charge more to pay the rent. It was a nice thing to do to keep the business, but like others have said what happens when there are no more brick stores to go see/inspect the item?

Brad 
Lancer 36


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

smurphny said:


> Defender's prices seem to be right in line with everyone else now. With exorbitant shipping costs, prices are not all that great. snip.


Define exhorbitant.

I just ordered water heater not exactly a feather weight item from Defender and was still over $85 less than West Marines advertised price.

Shipping was $15.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

A couple of years ago, my fresh water pump crapped out in New Bedford. I was darned glad that a West Marine was within walking distance. Having stores like this around ports is definitely a plus for boaters. As posted on an earlier thread, I found a new Salsa main sheet (end-roll) at considerably <1/2 regular price. I bought a new SOLAS flare last year that shipped to a local West store for 0. Not only does no one else seem to even have offshore stuff but items like flares can't be shipped at a reasonable cost directly to you. West may be expensive on a lot of stuff but they do have some good deals and it's worth browsing around. It is certainly unethical to use a West showroom to look at an item and then buy it somewhere else.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

A bit off topic, but Defender's annual Warehouse Sale is coming up March 21-24. Everything they sell is on sale. I've been buying from Defender for over 30 years since they were a little local store in New Rochelle. They just keep getting better with great customer service and quick shipping. It is not uncommon for my order to arrive the next day.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JimsCAL said:


> A bit off topic, but Defender's annual Warehouse Sale is coming up March 21-24. Everything they sell is on sale. I've been buying from Defender for over 30 years since they were a little local store in New Rochelle. They just keep getting better with great customer service and quick shipping. It is not uncommon for my order to arrive the next day.


I've been putting together a list of all the things I want to order during the sale (including the bottom paint that I mentioned above). How is their shipping during the sale? Do they ship the day your order (or the day after), or do they have to wait until the sale is completely over before they start shipping?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> I've been putting together a list of all the things I want to order during the sale (including the bottom paint that I mentioned above). How is their shipping during the sale? Do they ship the day your order (or the day after), or do they have to wait until the sale is completely over before they start shipping?


They ship when you order. They are really prompt to. It will go out tat day if you order early. They have really suprised me a few times how quickly it comes.

Dave


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> I've been putting together a list of all the things I want to order during the sale (including the bottom paint that I mentioned above). How is their shipping during the sale? Do they ship the day your order (or the day after), or do they have to wait until the sale is completely over before they start shipping?


If you aren't getting a sale on the grill hold off a little as you aren't going out yet and it may go on sale sometime soon. Lots of them haves sales before June.

Dave


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

kellysails said:


> The Fisheries Supply store (gigantic store) is a mess though with the occasional extremely grumpy employee. Some will actually avert their eyes if they see you coming and act very busy, really! Where as the Seattle flagship WM store in Lake Union is simply awesome. Very well organized and incredibly helpful staff. Sometimes the prices in Fisheries are half the price of WM.


Wow, that hasn't been my experience at all. The staff at Fisheries are very helpful and knowledgeable, especially in the sailing department. I can think of one or two exceptions. The people who work at the checkout generally know my account and are very friendly too.

The WM folks at the big store in Seattle are sort of helpful, but the stock there is a fraction of what Fisheries offers at higher prices. It is half clothing with a tiny little section of sailing hardware. The West Marine next to Shilshole Marina is even smaller, but the staff are more helpful. I go there more often because it is a 20 minute walk or 3 minute bike ride from my boat.

Most sailing clubs in Seattle get you a discount at Fisheries Supply that can get even larger savings. The Center for Wooden Boats is a great non-profit to support for instance, and membership there will pay for itself with cheaper Fisheries Supply pricing many times over.

I occasionally get stuff from Defender, but it is rarely worth it for me. The one exception is electronics, they have better prices on Raymarine than WM or Fisheries.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Another + for West Marine is their liberal return policy. They actually took back an expensive anchor that I was not happy with after I tried it out.

I walked in to West Marine in Old Saybrook, CT with the anchor, the stickers had come off and I had no receipt.
The sales clerk turned me over to the store manager.
The store manager looked up my purchase in Annapolis, MD using my rewards number.
I returned the anchor and purchased a new one.

I also use the price comparison option. It is a service that they offer so I don't see why not.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

TakeFive knows me... and I've spent a decent amount of money on "parts" this winter season. I've put more than half of it into Defender. However, I think West Marine has done a much better job at being competitive lately. I did order about 1/4 from them... However the rest was spread around to other places across the web.

NOTHING is near me as a store. The closest store to me is WM near Philly. I had no idea that Defender had any stores.

For me though ordering from the web, even with ground shipping I get stuff 1 to 2 days tops from Defender... That works nicely for me. I like having "choices" to go to for parts.

Actually for specific parts for my boat, I do favor catalinadirect... but I've been known to try mauipro, and aps as well. Bottompaint (since it's special ground shipping) is one of those things that I get from wherever will get it to me cheapest.

It's been 1 year since I was in Philly, and when I can I stop by the WM store. I purchased about $200 worth of stuff while there, and admittably spent more than I would if I had purchased it online. Because the gentleman working the store, was bright, knew his boats, and was restoring a Bayfield. To me, that's living it, not just working it! I personally FOUND stuff I needed because of the help/support he gave. For that reason I also buy from our local marina when I need something and sooner is better than later. I know there's a major markup on it, but if it's minor to me... its the convenience, and I don't mind paying for it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Few random thoughts.

Unless I'm mistaken, Defender only has the warehouse store in CT. 

There should be a law against certain types of packing material. Styrofoam peanuts and shredded paper should be outlawed by penalty of death. Those little inflatable balloons, bubble wrap or bunched paper are all acceptable. The first internet supplier than guarantees to ban peanuts and shreds gets all my business!!!!!!!!

One other serious advantage of our WM superstore is I just love killing time in there. I'm the kind of guy that likes browsing in a hardware store too. At least a couple of times per season, we're nearby and I have to wait for someone to do something. I just wander the isles and always find something I can't live without. No possible way to do that on the internet.


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> Now you are hitting a hot button of mine. Like all brick and mortar stores, the value they provide is that you can go in and look at the item.
> 
> Personally, I believe that the practice of "showrooming" (looking at an item in a store and then purchasing it somewhere else online) is unethical, and I refuse to do it. If I look at an item in the store, I buy it from the store, at the store's asking price. And I have done that at WM many times - and did NOT ask for a price match. The reason I think showrooming is unethical is that I would be using the store's services for free, and then buying elsewhere. Do that enough, and there will no longer be any stores around to look at those items that you need to touch to make an informed decision.
> 
> ...


It's about time someone mentioned this. A brick and Mortar location with inventory should not be expected to match the web on any item unless they also match the service (ie: no sale help, ship to your driveway, return by mail only after chasing them down, etc...)

I do the same thing, if I shop for an item in your store and you help me I buy from you. Conversely, if your staff is inattentive or apathetic I will use your display to comparison shop and purchase later online.

It is all about service in my opinion.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

When we lived in NYC area if you ordered from Defender before 4 pm (once it was 3:58), it would arrive at the marina office the next morning by 10 am via USPS. Not a fluke, it happened every time. Most impressive performance by the store and post office. West Marine stores vary enormously. They opened one of their superstores an hour or so from us in NJ and it was incredible. You visited the one in downtown Manhattan and you thought why bother having the store. It was tiny (rent of course), but your chance of finding anything you wanted there was tiny. Guess you could order for pickup but there was no parking.


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## ajoliver (Feb 23, 2007)

Don't know about other WM stores, but the one in Sandusky, Ohio has been really supportive of our Club's Jr. Race Team as well as our community sailing program (getting disabled & low income & minority folks out on the water) - so for sure, I shop at WM when I can. Of course, I also try for the best prices !!


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

So I happened to be out by the WM Lake Union store on Sunday and I thought I should try them out again and spread my boating funds around a bit more. We have a new kayak for the boat and we needed non-inflatable PFD's for it. The sales person was incredibly helpful and directed us to the cheaper WM branded models. And he pointed out the differences between standard lifevests and ones designed for kayaks, I hadn't realized that before. And at $45, not bad really, and a nice quality. 

As we were about ready to leave he asked if we needed anything else, well I thought I would give him a tough one that no one else has found a solution for. Our fuel caps have a winch type socket interface and we lost the neat little wrench handle that was designed for it. The WM sales person found a great cheap solution that never crossed my mind. As a comparison, at fisheries a couple weeks back, the fisheries salesperson barely raised his eyes before replying in the negative. Typical of my experience at fisheries.

Regardless, the pricing still can't be beat at fisheries. Buying off their internet site and having it sent to their "will call" works well. The folks in "will call" seem to be newbies so they have not had enough time on board to be corrupted by the poor fisheries work culture. 

I do get why people like WM, generally just a bit too pricey for my likes. But when I'm out of my knowledge area, not a bad place to go.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I've been putting together a list of all the things I want to order during the sale (including the bottom paint that I mentioned above). How is their shipping during the sale? Do they ship the day your order (or the day after), or do they have to wait until the sale is completely over before they start shipping?

I believe Defender waits until the end of the sale to ship everything.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

I had a big order into Defender for the sale last year. It seemed to be slightly delayed. They did split up the order somewhat as there were a couple of items on short back-order due to the volume.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Defender has always been very prompt when shipping anything I've ordered. I don't know if they have a special policy for the Warehouse Sale, but I suspect it is so popular they just get backed up. People around New England drive for hours to actually attend. It must be an all hands on deck event for them.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I tend to spread my boat bucks around. Like Minne I like to browse isles and keep a running inventory of prices for things I want/need. I get boat stuff at the camping store, the old timey hardware store by the marina, a couple of marine stores and online.

But for a lot of boat stuff it's West Marine (and their catalog is fantastic). Their rewards gives dollars back and it pays to watch their sales. My wife likes browsing West for clothing and we end up buying a fair bit from them; and I have a set of Third Reef foulies that have worn well. I do stay away from any Walmart grade cheap Chinese crap they carry. 

Why price match Defender? Well I agree with Rick to a point. If I see it in the store I want to buy it there. I'll even pay a little more without complaint for that convenience. But if the markup is 50% or 100% over a competitor I'm being gouged. Price match Defender and I'll buy it right now, you'll keep me as a customer. Force me to buy from Defender or Amazon and that will become my habit and you'll lose my purchases on all those other sales that would make money. It's a lesson every other brick & mortar store has learned. Just look at Best Buy.

Bottom line we'd all be worse off without West. I hope they don't don't shoot themselves in the foot. A talent too many companies possess.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> ...I don't know if they have a special policy for the Warehouse Sale, but I suspect it is so popular they just get backed up. People around New England drive for hours to actually attend. It must be an all hands on deck event for them.


That was exactly my concern. I am now hoping to launch on April 6, so my bottom paint will be time critical, and can't really have a delay. I think that I have heard in past years that they suspended shipping until the sale was over. I'll have to just call them and ask.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

TakeFive said:


> That was exactly my concern. I am now hoping to launch on April 6, so my bottom paint will be time critical, and can't really have a delay. I think that I have heard in past years that they suspended shipping until the sale was over. I'll have to just call them and ask.


The Defender warehouse sale is an incredible event. The number of extra staff, manufacturer's reps, added displays and all the customers that they pack in there has to be seen to be believed. There's no way I could imagine that they are handling mail orders on their usual schedule.

TakeFive has the right idea: call to verify when they will ship sale items.

For those who are lamenting the 50 mile policy of WM, you could always move to the greater New London area, where the real estate prices are still depressed, but the sailing venue is superb.

BTW, I understand that only the Mystic and Old Saybrook WM stores are price-matching Defender during their warehouse sale, even though there a couple of other WM stores within 50 miles.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> That was exactly my concern. I am now hoping to launch on April 6, so my bottom paint will be time critical, and can't really have a delay. I think that I have heard in past years that they suspended shipping until the sale was over. I'll have to just call them and ask.


How much are you hoping to save, compared to JD, WM or amazon? Sounds like it isn't worth the stress.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> How much are you hoping to save, compared to JD, WM or amazon? Sounds like it isn't worth the stress.


I have a long list that adds up to about $1000, so I could save a lot. But I'm not stressing. Once I've scraped and sanded my boat, I'll buy the paint somewhere else if I need it quickly. I'll buy the other stuff from Defender.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

In addition to the Warehouse Sale, Defender also has a Miami Boat Show sale in February and a Spring Commissioning sale in early March. I was able to beat the rush and lay in a lot of supplies at good prices through those sales. The March sale had a lot of bottom paint specials. Unfortunately that sale ended yesterday. Fawcett in Annapolis also has an annual President's Day sale in February that offers some very good pricing. 

With those behind us, Jamestown is offering free shipping on orders over $50 this week and WM has several bottom paints on sale this week including Hydrocoat and many of their house brands. As others on this forum have pointed out, WM PCA Gold is rebranded Ultima SR 40. There's a lot of competition this time of year so it pays to shop around.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> ...One other serious advantage of our WM superstore is I just love killing time in there. I'm the kind of guy that likes browsing in a hardware store too. At least a couple of times per season, we're nearby and I have to wait for someone to do something. I just wander the isles and always find something I can't live without. No possible way to do that on the internet.


What do you call the time you spend on SailNet?...

Back on topic; I tried to do a bunch of price matches with Defender back in January at the Ft Myers WM. I walked in to WM with a printout of my defender shopping cart and found that WM was CHEAPER than Defender on a couple of things, and within a dollar on other items.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

I too like Defender, but it still pays to check around since sometimes their prices can be beat. I always found WM to be high priced and even their sale items may be found cheaper elsewhere. Years ago I did get a good price on a 45 lb Manson Supreme from WM and that was even without the price match.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Defender has always been very prompt when shipping anything I've ordered. I don't know if they have a special policy for the Warehouse Sale, but I suspect it is so popular they just get backed up. People around New England drive for hours to actually attend. It must be an all hands on deck event for them.


I just spoke to Defender. Web/phone orders placed during the sale go onto "hold" status. People who visit the warehouse in person get first dibs on their available stock until the sale is over, then the web orders are filled from what's left after the sale. If they run out of the item it goes on backorder and is filled when it comes in. If it's a closeout item and they run out of it, it will not be reordered. For the 2013 sale, all shipping is suspended until March 25.

I've been toying with the idea of riding up there for the weekend. My wife has always wanted to visit Mystic, and if it's nice weather it would be a good excuse to go up there. With all the manufacuturers' reps there, it might be worth the looooong ride.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

fallard said:


> The Defender warehouse sale is an incredible event. The number of extra staff, manufacturer's reps, added displays and all the customers that they pack in there has to be seen to be believed. There's no way I could imagine that they are handling mail orders on their usual schedule.
> 
> TakeFive has the right idea: call to verify when they will ship sale items.
> 
> ...


It may just be worth a drive down there. I have never been to the store. They DO post notices about delays in shipping during the March sale.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I order from the Defender Warehouse Sale every year. Order is a bit slower than their normal super quick delivery, but usally arrives by Wednesday or so after the sale concludes. They are very good about bringing in extra stock for the sale and backorders seem to be no more common than at other times.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> There should be a law against certain types of packing material. Styrofoam peanuts and shredded paper should be outlawed by penalty of death. Those little inflatable balloons, bubble wrap or bunched paper are all acceptable. The first internet supplier than guarantees to ban peanuts and shreds gets all my business!!!!!!!!


FWIW, Many of those packing peanuts these days are made from a biodegradable starch product.....................


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> I just spoke to Defender. Web/phone orders placed during the sale go onto "hold" status. People who visit the warehouse in person get first dibs on their available stock until the sale is over, then the web orders are filled from what's left after the sale. If they run out of the item it goes on backorder and is filled when it comes in. If it's a closeout item and they run out of it, it will not be reordered. For the 2013 sale, all shipping is suspended until March 25.
> 
> I've been toying with the idea of riding up there for the weekend. My wife has always wanted to visit Mystic, and if it's nice weather it would be a good excuse to go up there. With all the manufacuturers' reps there, it might be worth the looooong ride.


It will be like going to a toy store on Black Friday I heard. I have a friends who goes every year and says its crazy. I will work on my boat and let UPS do the work for me

Mystic is a great place to visit. You should at least have 6 hours put aside just to tour the Seaport. We are members of the Seaport Association and display their burgee proudly on our boat.

Last we stoppped was the summer of 2008 when they had begun work on the 1860s whaling ship the Charles Morgan. I cant wait to see the finished producted as its set to launch this summer.

It is one of our stops this year on our trip to the LI Sound, We are staying for two days and we stay in the Seaport for docking. Second day is free to members of a certain level. Its neat to roam the Seaport at night after they kick out all the day tourists. My wife insists we stop at Mystic Pizza when we stay there.

That is a long ride by car, you are right. Hope you have a three day weekend.


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## SailingChance (Aug 29, 2012)

We had a WM employee try to argue with us as to why this was better for the customer - it was quite humorous actually. Unfortunately he had to deal with my boyfriend who likes to argue for the hell of it. In the end we managed to get him to still match a defender price. 

Kelley
sailingchance.com
facebook.com/sailingchance


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## pcarlson (Oct 15, 2010)

I know that WM stopped giving a discount to the Coast Guard Auxiliary as well.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> It is one of our stops this year on our trip to the LI Sound, We are staying for two days and we stay in the Seaport for docking. Second day is free to members of a certain level. Its neat to roam the Seaport at night after they kick out all the day tourists. My wife insists we stop at Mystic Pizza when we stay there.


Last I checked, the Seaport has backed off some of their dockage benefits for members. Dockage is $4.50/ft until you get to the Mariner membership level, where it is $3.50/ft. You only get a $50. discount on the second night if you are at the Sustaining level or higher. You don't get a free night unless you are at the Benefactor or Champion level. Depending on the length of your boat and the length of your stay, it may be worth your while to upgrade your membership.

For the frugal sailor, there is a small transient anchorage just past the last federal channel marker (at the North end of the Seaport). It can fill up quickly and if you draw more than 5 ft, you may be out of luck. You would have to pay Seaport admission, unless your are a member and you wouldn't enjoy the ambience of docking at the Seaport itself.

Being a local (about 400 ft from the South end of Mystic Seaport) I have my opinion about Mystic Pizza. My favorite is Pizzetta, about a hundred yards due South of Mystic Pizza, on Water Street.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

fallard said:


> Last I checked, the Seaport has backed off some of their dockage benefits for members. Dockage is $4.50/ft until you get to the Mariner membership level, where it is $3.50/ft. You only get a $50. discount on the second night if you are at the Sustaining level or higher. You don't get a free night unless you are at the Benefactor or Champion level. Depending on the length of your boat and the length of your stay, it may be worth your while to upgrade your membership.
> 
> For the frugal sailor, there is a small transient anchorage just past the last federal channel marker (at the North end of the Seaport). It can fill up quickly and if you draw more than 5 ft, you may be out of luck. You would have to pay Seaport admission, unless your are a member and you wouldn't enjoy the ambience of docking at the Seaport itself.
> 
> Being a local (about 400 ft from the South end of Mystic Seaport) I have my opinion about Mystic Pizza. My favorite is Pizzetta, about a hundred yards due South of Mystic Pizza, on Water Street.


Thanks for the heads up...we already did the upgrade to the benefactor level. We spend most of our time anchoring out or mooring on our vacation of three weeks so we genrally take a slip when we spend a few days some place. We also liek supporting the Seaport. It is a great cause and a true representatuion of the old way of doing things. The volunteers there are always so very nice. We feel our money goes to a good cause there vs some administration.

I have looked at the cove before and wondered if we could anchor there. It looks small. We draw 4.5 so it is a possiblity I guess. The only other anchoring is out by Noank or Stonington.

Thanks for the heads up on the pizza. We dont actually eat there though my wife just like visiting it We go to a lobster place which is at the beginning of the winding channel back to the bridge ( the name escapes me).


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> I have looked at the cove before and wondered if we could anchor there. It looks small. We draw 4.5 so it is a possiblity I guess. The only other anchoring is out by Noank or Stonington.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the pizza. We dont actually eat there though my wife just like visiting it We go to a lobster place which is at the beginning of the winding channel back to the bridge ( the name escapes me).


The Seaport could use your money. Despite some self-serving altruism, it is a worthy cause and deserves support. The bottom is generally muddy in the area north of the Seaport, FWIW, so you may not have a problem--should you settle into it at low tide.

There is a marked transient anchorage just across the channel from Mystic Shipyard and just south of Brewers. This is on your right as you pass Masons Island on the way to the RR bridge. Your draft is OK, but more than 5 ft and you might bump a soft bottom. This anchorage is about a mile from the Seaport. You don't have to resort to Noank or Stonington.

I can't tell from your description which "lobster house" you refer to--perhaps it's one of the local restaurants, like S&P Oyster House, nest to the Rt 1 bascule bridge. The classic lobster place along the Mystic River is Abbotts Lobster-in-the-Rough, with the striped red and white awning, right along the river just north of Noank Shipyard. You can tie up there while you are enjoying your lobster.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

fallard said:


> The Seaport could use your money. Despite some self-serving altruism, it is a worthy cause and deserves support. The bottom is generally muddy in the area north of the Seaport, FWIW, so you may not have a problem--should you settle into it at low tide.
> 
> There is a marked transient anchorage just across the channel from Mystic Shipyard and just south of Brewers. This is on your right as you pass Masons Island on the way to the RR bridge. Your draft is OK, but more than 5 ft and you might bump a soft bottom. This anchorage is about a mile from the Seaport. You don't have to resort to Noank or Stonington.
> 
> I can't tell from your description which "lobster house" you refer to--perhaps it's one of the local restaurants, like S&P Oyster House, nest to the Rt 1 bascule bridge. The classic lobster place along the Mystic River is Abbotts Lobster-in-the-Rough, with the striped red and white awning, right along the river just north of Noank Shipyard. You can tie up there while you are enjoying your lobster.


Thanks on the anchorage advice...Yep thats it Abbotts


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Quick, remind me why people shop at West Marine? Oh thats right, because they are rich or just enjoy paying double for parts.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Harborless said:


> Quick, remind me why people shop at West Marine? Oh thats right, because they are rich or just enjoy paying double for parts.


Glib comment '

Not always true...you can always compare prices
Sometimes you need something quickly- convienence
One of the Catalogues to use as a reasorce


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Glib comment '
> 
> Not always true...you can always compare prices
> Sometimes you need something quickly- convienence
> One of the Catalogues to use as a reasorce


You caught me. When the discount places and sailors exchange and internet does not meet muster, I drive a 1/4 mile to WM. WM is ALWAYS a LAST RESORT however. They way overcharge.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

A friend bought 2 gallons of Interlux Ultra yesterday with me at Fisheries:
* West Marine: $220/gallon
* Fisheries Supply retail: $190/gallon
* Defender: $177/gallon
* Fisheries Supply sailing club account: $165/gallon

This is typical of what I see and why I rarely go to WM in Seattle. Defender is rarely worth it either (except for electronics and during the upcoming sale). It's unfortunate that kellysails has had bad customer service at Fisheries, but that hasn't been my experience or the experience of most of my friends. 

West Marine won't match Fisheries account pricing, only Fisheries retail pricing. Anyone in Seattle can get a sailing club account quite easily by belonging to a local sailing organization such as CWB or a racing club.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

ehmanta said:


> FWIW, Many of those packing peanuts these days are made from a biodegradable starch product.....................


French fries? Cheese Doodles?


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

I shop at WM primarily for convenience, the occasional good sale or a few WM-branded products manufactured by name-brand manufacturers; e.g Pettit makes their PCA Gold bottom paint -- good stuff in my area and better than paints costing $50 more per gallon. 

I like Jamestown, Defender, Hamilton Marine, Cajun Rope, and a several guys on Amazon. Some items are a lot cheaper elsewhere but hazardous materials shipping charges get pretty ridiculous for something like a gallon of MaryKate On/Off. Often, my local hardware store can get things in a day and beats WM everytime. I like supporting the small local guys, too. Everybody wins.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

Alex W said:


> A friend bought 2 gallons of Interlux Ultra yesterday with me at Fisheries:
> * West Marine: $220/gallon
> * Fisheries Supply retail: $190/gallon
> * Defender: $177/gallon
> ...


I agree with Alex on the prices, very much what I see. 
I have a fisheries account through my yacht broker, I get crazy prices like the sailing club discount. Nice to know if my broker gets tired of me on their account. Impossible to beat their prices, as previously stated, but not a fan of their service. If you know what you need, they are fantastic. And they are good with returns. I know Alex has a higher opinion of their service, just my experience.


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## davisr (Aug 13, 2011)

I've spent countless dollars at the local West Marine, primarily through price-matching. When I discovered that this policy would, for all intents an purposes, end on March 1, I asked the manager what he thought about this new policy. He gave me the company line, saying that less than 3 percent of all retail sails nationally were through price-matching, but that because of this less than 3 percent group of people over $13 million dollars had been lost last year. I hastened to point out to him that WM didn't really _lose _$13 million in sales. They simply had $13 million in sales at competitors' prices. He muttered something about price points and then went on to say that after March 1 their retail prices would be coming down. This comeback really didn't make sense to me. Why would WM drop their retails prices for the oblivious 70percent, when they were worried about the 3 percent who were price matching? I told him that I liked spending my money locally at this WM, because it supported his job and the jobs of others in the store. I said, though, that unless the retail prices did in fact drop, then I would be sending my money northward to Defender. Have the prices dropped since March 1 . . . .? Nah. They've gone up.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

davisr said:


> ...He gave me the company line, saying that less than 3 percent of all retail sails nationally were through price-matching, but that because of this less than 3 percent group of people over $13 million dollars had been lost last year. I hastened to point out to him that WM didn't really _lose _$13 million in sales. They simply had $13 million in sales at competitors' prices. He muttered something about price points...


That is SO TRUE. In exchange for giving discounts to 3 percent of their customers, they kept a dedicated group that always went to WestMarine first. They've basically made themselves the seller of last resort for those 3 percent.

I could understand this new policy if WM is losing money on those sales. I have no way of knowing that, except that WM has a lot of buying power, so they are probably getting the same wholesale pricing as their internet competitors. They will still have the same large fixed costs (building, labor) with or without those "3 percenters." So as long as they weren't losing money on the discounted sales, they were improving their bottom line by doing it.

It's been decades since I owned my retail business, so I can't claim to be an expert. Over time we'll see how WM does with this policy.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

To me, this is no different than when I first starting buying at REI back in the early 70's, have a low 6 digit member number to boot! Altho I still know a few with 3 ad 4 digit numbers.....One gets generally speaking 10% of the purchase price back at the end of the year, yeah at times it would be nice to get it back right then and there......BUT, you still get 10% back. WM is similar, in that you do get 3-5% back per say every few months to apply to buying other stuff. 
So in one hand, it is hard to compare, yet on the other, one does need to look at the, If I match and still give you the 4% rewards or what ever the % is, not only have I matched, but made it cheaper to boot! So I can see how one would not be totally willing to match other places prices! OR they have to do as REI does, if the price ends in a $y.x9 then you get the rebate, if it ends in a $y.x3, you do not get a rebate, or a reduced one as it is already marked down. Been that way at REI for many many years! 

Along with, as I said before, one can go to the Port Supply side, if you have a biz, or a YC and get a PS account, which will net you locally any how, something on part with Fisheries prices, again, you do not get your rewards discount! you get the discount up front!

marty


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

News flash.....

WM is a brick and mortor strore with how many stores? Comparing their price structures, availability with mail order houses is like comparing apples to oranges.

Why would you ever think a store within 5 miles of your home would ever be able to charge the same as a mail order house in a warehouse with cheap rent and virtually little salary requirements could charge even close for a product. The three driving costs of articles for sale are the cost of the product from the manufacturer, the cost to distribute ( rent, electricity, insurance ) and the cost of labor. 

You can rail on and on about this unequal comparison of completely different business models with the ONLY similarity SOME of the same articles being sold. There is no way of similar comparisons.

I for one was always suprised they ever price matched other than similar brick and mortor stores. Why should they? Because of some crybabies looking for a perpetual bargain with unrealistic expectations. Show me where my Giant here in Maryland should honor the specials offered by a Piiggly Wiggly in Peducha, Kentucky. 

If you can get it cheaper from Defender do it and wait for it to come. I do that. If I need it right away I go to West Marine. If I want to touch it first I go to WM and handle it. If you order wrong from Defender, sure they'll take it back, they have great customer service. You can wait for another week now. If you need to take back to WM they have pretty good customer service for the most part for a big corporation. You get an immediate exchange.

WM is not going out of business. You complaints are unrealistic. They are in business to make money. You are in business to save money. Competing interests. 

Stop whining about their change in policy. There are no free lunches anymore. Be thankful you had it or as long as you did in the first place.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

As Chief says, any body been in some of the internet site stores? I'e been in sailboat owners shop, it is maybe all of 1000#, they get deliveries from a few local places, along with daily drops from other suppliers, then out the door an hour or so later coming to you via fed ex! A definite different operation than a brick and mortor where they stock it, have it for you to hold, try on in some cases, take you old part in to see if the new part is the same......

Yeah, one pays a bit more, but not always that much more............can be good and bad both ways.

ALong with, if I need something in Friday Harbor on San Juan island, there is not a defender or Fisheries, but there is a West Marine! plan on paying a bit more for that convenience! No different than a 7-11 or equal, you pay more for a box of ceral than at safeway or equal!

marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Fisheries is a brick and mortar (in addition to being mail order and wholesale supply). I'm there all the time (I was last there yesterday). It's about 2x bigger than the Seattle West Marine, and that is before you add in the clothing store. It is also in a high rent area of Seattle one block off of the water. This isn't just a small mail order business running out of a warehouse miles from anywhere.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

Hmm...

I guess we all gotta ask ourselves one simple question; if WM was to indeed go out of business, would we internet savvy SailNetters really miss it?

Short of the rare, nuclear occasion, are there truly that many instances where you need to "have it" or "touch it," _that_ day?....honestly?

Head offshore for a stint. You'll learn to grow uber patient with even the simplest of supplies.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Alex W said:


> Fisheries is a brick and mortar (in addition to being mail order and wholesale supply). I'm there all the time (I was last there yesterday). It's about 2x bigger than the Seattle West Marine, and that is before you add in the clothing store. It is also in a high rent area of Seattle one block off of the water. This isn't just a small mail order business running out of a warehouse miles from anywhere.


I've bought from both, prefered to buy in Edmonds when WM was there, vs driving 30 min south to fisheries, shilshoals WM or the Mercer st WM and now the one on westlake. Fisheries is bigger. When I was morred in Everett, I bought from both WM and another up that way. The other was more popular as i could walk to it in less than 100' from the dock, where I parked, WM was half a mile away on the other side of the marina. Both have there place as does Fisheries.

I doubt too many of us are going to drive 50 miles plus to save $10 or even $100 to get something. We might mail/ship order for $100, Not sure $10 would say to me order and wait, usually does not. $100 might. Usually I will not mail order per say, unless I know I want and will keep the item If I might need to return it for ANY reason, this is a much better reason to buy local than farther away. As guess who gets to pay shipping both ways! Now my mail order savings is gone and then some in many cases.

two yrs ago when I pulled my boat, not sure I would need paint, found out after pulling, yes I did, so down I went to the store. This year, had to pull unexpectedly due to a leaking PSS shaft seal......needed paint, so off to the store, was not going to wait for defenders prices at $30 a day for drydock! For you on the east coast, being out of the water for 6 months, in for 6 months.....this is not an issue. for us in pretty much 24/7/365, yes we do schedule haul outs, but sometimes we don't! as shown in 2 cases for myself.

Clothes I prefer to buy in person, then I know it fits, otherwise it can be a swag at best.

At the end of the day, it is helpful to have both options. Neither option is truly better than the other!

Marty


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Alex W said:


> Fisheries is a brick and mortar (in addition to being mail order and wholesale supply). I'm there all the time (I was last there yesterday). It's about 2x bigger than the Seattle West Marine, and that is before you add in the clothing store. It is also in a high rent area of Seattle one block off of the water. This isn't just a small mail order business running out of a warehouse miles from anywhere.


Fisheries is ONE brick and mortor store not a series of them. Most of us don't live in Seattle. Annapolis has Fawcetts, Ct has Defender....they are apples

West Marine has what 1500 stores is oranges.

No comparison


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

chef2sail said:


> Fisheries is ONE brick and mortor store not a series of them. Most of us don't live in Seattle. Annapolis has Fawcetts, Ct has Defender....they are apples
> 
> West Marine has what 1500 stores is oranges.
> 
> No comparison


Along with WM probably has over 1000 or maybe add a zero or two to that number of stock holders that demand an X% return, where as Fisheries, Defender and the like might have one or two or three or a family per say, and only need 3-5% return, vs WM might need want 5-10% to meet those companies share holders expectations. Either way, both are different, both offer different options.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

RocketScience said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I guess we all gotta ask ourselves one simple question; if WM was to indeed go out of business, would we internet savvy SailNetters really miss it?
> 
> ...


This may come as a shock to you. Most Sailnet readers probably aren't cruisers.

Shock two .....most don't go offshore.

Neither makes that majority less than. I bet they spend more in the marine stores than the cruisers or offshore people. Sailors demographics make up many kinds of sailors, and all have boats they need to supply.

Shock three ..West Marine has a successful business plan and don't depend on your participation ( because you already don't obviously) and the meet the needs a lot of the of the average salor or thy wouldn't Ben successfully already

Shock four they aren't going out of business,

Their sales are far greater than all the others put together. So obviously they are meeting the needs of the majority of he sailors.

I do go offshore and do use Defender, and other Internet sites which by the way I have found great deals t. I also use West Marine when I need to. I hope they stay in business and keep the many sailing related people employed.

There is no comparing brick and mortor to mail order or Internet sales.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

If you look at their financial reports over the last few years, WM is doing quite well. Annual 10K's. Pretty shocked at the gross margins (very good), maybe not so shocked when you realize what they charge. Looks like a well run company on the upward swing. It would be nice if they would share some of their success with their customers a bit more.

WMAR SEC Filings | West Marine, Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

kellysails said:


> If you look at their financial reports over the last few years, WM is doing quite well. Annual 10K's. Pretty shocked at the gross margins (very good), maybe not so shocked when you realize what they charge. Looks like a well run company on the upward swing. It would be nice if they would share some of their success with their customers a bit more.
> 
> WMAR SEC Filings | West Marine, Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance


But they do share their success. They are a sucessful company who continues to employee people and is still hiring.

You want to share their financial success. You can be a stock holder. Nothing is preventing you.

They arent a monopoly, but they are the only marine multi state store left with over 20 brick and mortor stores. Their business model is sound and successfull


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

In sharing success, I mean better prices for their customers, the "Amazon" model. 

I wonder how many stores they have, there have eight just in Seattle area. There is value in the convenience model for sure. They are VERY proud of their convenience strategy it seems


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> This may come as a shock to you. Most Sailnet readers probably aren't cruisers.
> 
> Shock two .....most don't go offshore.
> 
> ...




The only thing I'm shocked by is your extrapolation of my post.

I never implied SailNetters were cruisers, or go offshore, or that WM had a poor business plan, or that they may even go out of business (did I miss any?).

I posed a couple questions to the group. You too can answer them if you like?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RocketScience said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I guess we all gotta ask ourselves one simple question; if WM was to indeed go out of business, would we internet savvy SailNetters really miss it?
> 
> ...


Yes and right now. I just ran out of varnish, as I underestimated the amount I would need for my cockpit table. I need enough for at least one more coat and would like to do 3 more. With a min of 24 hours between coats, I don't want to wait for ground shipping. I launch one week from Monday!

I actually priced the varnish at all the online vendors and its within a couple of dollars. Some, by the way looked much cheaper, but they added the hazardous material fee at the checkout. Worse, to get it shipped by 2 day UPS was going to cost more than the varnish itself!!

I am going to stop in WM this weekend, when I'm commissioning and buy it off the shelf. I will pay absolutely whatever they are selling it for. No doubt.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It is likely that some customers, within the 3% of those they price match, are still going to buy the product without the discount. Very likely.

They seem to be on top of this math and I'm sure have calculated that this will be a net positive. More profit on a few will make up for lost thin profit on the rest. Even if its breakeven, it makes sense, because you are dealing with your most profitable customers and not those that don't value what you are offering. They are not in business to be the price leader, so why cater to the customers that only value the price leader. Smart.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

kellysails said:


> In sharing success, I mean better prices for their customers, the "Amazon" model.
> 
> I wonder how many stores they have, there have eight just in Seattle area. There is value in the convenience model for sure. They are VERY proud of their convenience strategy it seems


320 stores
Sales $640 million

Buy their stock. Annother way of getting a discount


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I am going to stop in WM this weekend, when I'm commissioning and buy it off the shelf. I will pay absolutely whatever they are selling it for. No doubt.


Wow, a WM Gold Star customer. Who needs that silly Internetty anyway. Takes me back to the 90's when we had a budget surplus. 

I can't help but start humming this song


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

kellysails said:


> Wow, a WM Gold Star customer. Who needs that silly Internetty anyway. Takes me back to the 90's when we had a budget surplus.


Not sure I get it. Am I not spending less with WM and getting it faster?


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

Yeah, this particular use case does make sense for you, mostly poking fun, which fun.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> =RocketScience;1002556]:confused
> [The only thing I'm shocked by is your extrapolation of my post
> 
> I never implied SailNetters were cruisers, or go offshore, or that WM had a poor business plan, or that they may even go out of business (did I miss any?).


Never thought of it as an extrapolation,,,just an interpretation
Well first of all you did bring up the offshore comment and my reply was that IMHO it wasnt relevant to most of the posters on Sailnet .
Here is what you posted


> *Head offshore for a stint. You'll learn to grow uber patient with even the simplest of supplies*.





> I posed a couple questions to the group. You too can answer them if you like
> I guess we all gotta ask ourselves one simple question; if WM was to indeed go out of business, would we internet savvy SailNetters really miss it?
> 
> Short of the rare, nuclear occasion, are there truly that many instances where you need to "have it" or "touch it," that day?....honestly?
> ...





> Short of the rare, nuclear occasion, are there truly that many instances where you need to "have it" or "touch it," that day?....honestly?


Kind of a snarky comment to those who use WM wouldnt you say?
See by itself without the nuclear or honestly comment maybe you could get by with claiming you were not expressing an opinion, but those words obviously meant from your intent your were saying:

* " Honestly guys, exccept in the rare instances of a once in a lifetime occasion ( nuclear event as you put it), like really are your sure ( honestly as you put it) are there really truly instances where you need to have it or touch it that day?*

The answer as I explained it carefully is yes...and yes...and that is the West Marine business plan and message. Need it now and want to touch the product and look at it

I aprreciate the fact I can hold the item in my hand and see how it is made compared to other brands. I also appreciate the fact Like in Minnies case where he underestimated the amount of something he was using he could go oput and find it close by and finish his project in time. No WM he might be SOL


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

What's the issue here? We all know we can find anything cheaper on the net. Most of us stop at WM because it's convenient, timely and we can window shop. 
WM runs a solid store and i appreciate that they are there when i need them. WM is out to make a profit, just like any company. If you don't like it shop somewhere else. It's not their responsibility to give you a "discount". I would assume that their business model is to be competitive locally as well as nationally. It works. If it doesn't work they will go out of business. 
Welcome to capitalism!


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

Chef2 sail, you are correct


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Sometimes when a person is making wisecracks to get under your skin, the best way to get back at him is to not let him get under your skin.

I don't think anyone here questions WM's right to charge whatever they please. As for the wisdom of any pricing policy, that's where everyone gets to be an armchair expert and offer advice that's worth....basically nothing. :laugher But it's the Internet, so what do you expect?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> Sometimes when a person is making wisecracks to get under your skin, the best way to get back at him is to not let him get under your skin.
> 
> I don't think anyone here questions WM's right to charge whatever they please. As for the wisdom of any pricing policy, that's where everyone gets to be an armchair expert and offer advice that's worth....basically nothing. :laugher But it's the Internet, so what do you expect?


Yep you are right about the wisecracks, I say treat others as you are treated by them  after all it is only the internet

I am glad I have stock in WM and have for years. Its one of the few stocks which held its own in the recession years. Their business model is a good one.
They are a savy company and if this new policy huirts them they will adjust as they are for the most part a customer service oriented company.

As you know I am the first to recommend using internet, Defender Genuinedeals etc sites to save money when you can as I have contacted you on sales etc. In todays internet age it just makes sense when you have the time not to throw your money away. Many times I have seen similar prices at WM. Like I said previously to those lambasting them for ending their price match, I was always suprised they did it with non brick and mortor stores, but I used it to bargain for cheaper things there.

I for one hope they continue their success and keep people employed. They are really the last big chain in the marine industry surviving. With the high priced stuff on their shelves it has to be a difficult inventory evaluation process for them as their expenditures to keep amble product on their shelves must be challenging. Also because of the seasonal nature
of over one half of their stores.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> RocketScience said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing I'm shocked by is your extrapolation of my post
> ...


Dude, is there a hole in the O-Zone layer over Maryland we didn't hear about??? I asked a couple simple questions to the group, and you appear to be the only one getting all ruffled up about it.

My comments were not meant to be "snarky", and I apologize if they came across that way. I truly would like to know (West Marine aside); what are the items that a brick and mortar store have that a person truly needs THAT day? No snarkiness about that question, I really am curious, because this leads to the last comment in my first post, which inferred the inability to acquire (that day) even the simplest of supplies while offshore. In other words, if it seams sailors can put up with the three or four weeks it takes to ship a simple thru hull to Atuona, French Polynesia while stranded there, does it really kill us to wait here?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

RocketScience said:


> Dude, is there a hole in the O-Zone layer over Maryland we didn't hear about??? I asked a couple simple questions to the group, and you appear to be the only one getting all ruffled up about it.
> 
> My comments were not meant to be "snarky", and I apologize if they came across that way. I truly would like to know (West Marine aside); what are the items that a brick and mortar store have that a person truly needs THAT day? No snarkiness about that question, I really am curious, because this leads to the last comment in my first post, which inferred the inability to acquire (that day) even the simplest of supplies while offshore. In other words, if it seams sailors can put up with the three or four weeks it takes to ship a simple thru hull to Atuona, French Polynesia while stranded there, does it really kill us to wait here?





> My comments were not meant to be "snarky", and I apologize if they came across that way


This is disengenuous or you wouldnt say this


> Dude, is there a hole in the O-Zone layer over Maryland we didn't hear about???


No one is getting "ruffled" just treating you as you treated me...dude:laugher

But thats the point isnt it, why wait needlessly if you dont have to. I am not in Atuona, French Polynesia, I am in Maryland.

I would bet many of us still work and are not "cruising" with no real demands on our time. Maybe our ability to get the thing we need asaP will allow us to get more sailing in and get out on the water vs sip a Mai Tai on a beach in French Polynesia.

If I was a retired cruiser, sure it wouldnt make a difference maybe.

Maybe you could answer my question . My question is........why wait if you dont have to? How many people do you think are sailing on the Chesapeake in say April vs all of French Polynesia? and lastly what relevance does French Polyensia have with a WM topic?

Goes back to the original demographics. WM meets the need of the majority of the boating public in terms of availability of product as well as ease of purchase. If it didnt it would be out of buisiness.

Enough of saying the same old same old about this for me.

Dave


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RocketScience said:


> .......I really am curious, because this leads to the last comment in my first post, which inferred the inability to acquire (that day) even the simplest of supplies while offshore. In other words, if it seams sailors can put up with the three or four weeks it takes to ship a simple thru hull to Atuona, French Polynesia while stranded there, does it really kill us to wait here?


Unlike someone with months on their hands, while transiting an ocean, I have guests coming tomorrow or tomorrow will be the only nice day to sail on a given weekend. Then I have other responsibilities that cruiser in Atuona doesn't. Having inventory nearby is important.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Shipping to each and every household is also very inefficient and costly. It takes about 30 gallons of antifreeze to winterize our boat (3 heads, 4 shower sumps, 3 air conditioning units, washing machine, two engines, etc, etc).

The shipping cost on 5 cases of antifreeze is breathtaking. I grabbed it one year during WMs free shipping special. I'm sure they regretted it and I know I did after humping it around the house then to the marina. Ever since, I just drive down to WM and buy it the day I'm going to use it.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Shipping to each and every household is also very inefficient and costly. It takes about 30 gallons of antifreeze to winterize our boat (3 heads, 4 shower sumps, 3 air conditioning units, washing machine, two engines, etc, etc).
> 
> The shipping cost on 5 cases of antifreeze is breathtaking. I grabbed it one year during WMs free shipping special. I'm sure they regretted it and I know I did after humping it around the house then to the marina. Ever since, I just drive down to WM and buy it the day I'm going to use it.


Thats a lot of damn antifreeze


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Thats a lot of damn antifreeze


Don't I know it.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

and i thought i used alot of anti-freeze......jeeesh....wow


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

11 gallons between the main and genset alone. Long exhaust run. And I only use -100 for that. Adds up.

Reminds me that I also got a nice rebate from WM this past year, which I dutifully clipped all the bar codes and mailed them in. Got a $50+ check in the mail a couple of months later.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

30 gals?!?! There are rumored to be some shops that use 90-100+ 55 gal drums of AF in the fall when winterizing boats for clients! Now that is a lot of AF! But 30 gals for one boat is still a lot too!

Marty


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

TakeFive said:


> I just spoke to Defender. Web/phone orders placed during the sale go onto "hold" status. People who visit the warehouse in person get first dibs on their available stock until the sale is over, then the web orders are filled from what's left after the sale. If they run out of the item it goes on backorder and is filled when it comes in. If it's a closeout item and they run out of it, it will not be reordered. For the 2013 sale, all shipping is suspended until March 25...


FYI, I decided that I can't wait until March 25 for Defender to ship my bottom paint. Since I was able to scrape the hull today, I could be painting by the end of the week if I get the paint quickly. I found my paint (Vivid White) at Jamestown for $195 with free shipping (vs. Defender's current price of $210 plus about $13 shipping). I don't know what Defender will have it for during their warehouse sale, but Jamestown's price was attractive enough to get me to pull the trigger on this.

FYI, Jamestown's free shipping special ends tomorrow.

After my ebay purchase of Magma grill and this paint purchase, there's not a whole lot left for me to buy from Defender - Magma grill cover, harness, tether, strobe. I'll see how Defender's prices are for the sale and consider purchasing then.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> Yes and right now. I just ran out of varnish, as I underestimated the amount I would need for my cockpit table. I need enough for at least one more coat and would like to do 3 more. With a min of 24 hours between coats, I don't want to wait for ground shipping. I launch one week from Monday!
> 
> I actually priced the varnish at all the online vendors and its within a couple of dollars. Some, by the way looked much cheaper, but they added the hazardous material fee at the checkout. Worse, to get it shipped by 2 day UPS was going to cost more than the varnish itself!!
> 
> I am going to stop in WM this weekend, when I'm commissioning and buy it off the shelf. I will pay absolutely whatever they are selling it for. No doubt.


Sorry, I missed this comment, and yeah, your scenario is a pretty dang good reason for needing it that day. I'd put this in my "nuclear" category.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> ...Maybe you could answer my question . My question is........why wait if you dont have to? How many people do you think are sailing on the Chesapeake in say April vs all of French Polynesia? and lastly what relevance does French Polynesia have with a WM topic?..


Hey, f you don't have to wait, great. I myself have indulged in the immediate gratification that the brick and mortar stores allow, but that doesn't mean it would'a been a "deal breaker" if they weren't available (unless I was varnishing  ). This is really a convenience issue. Do I like the fact that we have the brick and mortar stores around? You bet. Do I think they're 100% necessary in this age of shopping at your finger tips, not at all. JMO

As far as the Atuona comment goes, it was an a_n_a_l_o_g_y.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> FYI, I decided that I can't wait until March 25 for Defender to ship my bottom paint. Since I was able to scrape the hull today, I could be painting by the end of the week if I get the paint quickly. I found my paint (Vivid White) at Jamestown for $195 with free shipping (vs. Defender's current price of $210 plus about $13 shipping). I don't know what Defender will have it for during their warehouse sale, but Jamestown's price was attractive enough to get me to pull the trigger on this.
> 
> FYI, Jamestown's free shipping special ends tomorrow.
> 
> After my ebay purchase of Magma grill and this paint purchase, there's not a whole lot left for me to buy from Defender - Magma grill cover, harness, tether, strobe. I'll see how Defender's prices are for the sale and consider purchasing then.


Sounds like good choices. Next year look for December specials. I have stuff I am ordering on March 21...we will see how long it takes to arrive.

Dave


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