# Cool, soft way of attaching jib sheets



## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

I posted this on sa too but it's really a cruiser shortcut more than anything I think.

It's called the "bubble knot", in the knot tying book I had on my coffee table. For use with a one-part jib sheet. I was going to cut my sheet in half and put eye splices in the ends so I could use an amsteel soft shackle to hook up the jib, but this took me 5 minutes to tie and does almost exactly the same thing.

The loop goes through the clew, then the knot secures it.


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## Gillfowdy (Mar 14, 2007)

Very cool. Soft is good if youre running around on the foredeck and get clocked with the jib sheet clew.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

Why not just use a cow hitch / larks head?

Google Image Result for http://www.geospectra.net/kite/knots/knot09.jpg

Barry


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> Why not just use a cow hitch / larks head?
> 
> Barry


That's how mine is tied.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

simplest is a cow hitch. is what i use..had to get rid of the metal stuff slamming onmy deck and rig from some kind of weird attachment system--was ridiculous--so i made simple


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

zeehag said:


> ....had to get rid of the metal stuff slamming onmy deck and rig from some kind of weird attachment system--


Exactly why I use a nice soft cow hitch.


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

Do you use two separate lines, each with a cow hitch? Or do you use the cow hitch in the middle of a single line?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

rhr1956 said:


> Do you use two separate lines, each with a cow hitch? Or do you use the cow hitch in the middle of a single line?


one line one hitch. easy peasy.fold in middle and use well.


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

zeehag said:


> one line one hitch. easy peasy.fold in middle and use well.


That's the way I do mine. Each of my headsails have their own sheet.


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

The cow hitch is one of the best. I have run into the sheet is to large for the gromet this is a way that could help if you wish to use that line size. Why such a small gromet in the clew? Do we have a sailmaker ready to post? The larger line does not bite your hands. You could change sheet size under way ? Small sheets help in light air. Kind Regards, Lou


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## heinzir (Jul 25, 2000)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> Why not just use a cow hitch / larks head?
> 
> Barry


A cow hitch is fine if the sheet does not need to be removed/attached quickly and easily. You may want to use the same sheets for several different sails, in which case a soft attachment that is easy to connect/disconnect is ideal. Another scenario would be if a hank on jib is equipped with reef points; you can move the sheet up to the new clew. And thirdly, you can remove the sail (for trailering, for example) and save setup time by leaving the sheets rigged through their blocks and cleats/stoppers.

My boat fits all three of the above situations. As the saying goes, "different ships, different long splices."


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I've found that once a Cow Hitch is more than about 20 minutes old (figuratively speaking) it takes a marlinspike to get it loose.

If one doesn't want shackles, use bowlines so they can be easily undone later.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

rhr1956 said:


> That's the way I do mine. Each of my headsails have their own sheet.


X2 (or X3?)


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I use a cow hitch when I have a single sheet, but I do think that it's hard on the clew of the sail. This system allows for an open loop through the sail so it isn't putting any wear on the corner.

I'm interested to see the instructions on tying the knot. "Bubble" isn't on animated knots or in my knot books.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

I have taken my "lead" from the IODs I crew on occasionally and use 2 sheets and bowlines. A little bulky I guess but it is good enough for the world champions racing those lithe little boats. It makes for an easy and quick change when changing head sails. "Soft"? What would hard be? Not a metal connection I hope? Jeeze!

Down


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

*Not For Me*

The cow's hitch may be ok for a dinghy but on a larger vessel, if the sheet separates, you lose the whole sail with no way to bring it under control.

I will continue to use two bowlines but be careful. In a breeze, the bowlines are dangerous. In 25kts, I was knocked to the deck after being hit in the temple while adjusting a genoa car. Last year in similar wind, my wife received a 12" bruise on her thigh after being hit during a tack (she was real proud of her trophy). The lesson is to stay away during a tack.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Bowline. Simple, does not bind, easy to tie.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

The cow hitch works ok with roller furling genoas which are rarely if ever changed out, and can't realistically be tied and untied every time the boat is used so they are left out exposed to the elements all season.

Bowlines work, but take more time to tie and unti, and on my boat in particular when using the working jib the knots themselves can get caught on the shrouds when trimming for upwind. Plus bowlines hurt when they whack you, and there's two of them hanging off that clew.

My original plan had been to cut my jib sheet into two, and eye splice one end of each sheet, and use an amsteel soft shackle to attach the sheets. But this knot took me 5 minutes to tie, and accomplishes the same thing. I just thought it was cool.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

downeast450 said:


> I have taken my "lead" from the IODs I crew on occasionally and use 2 sheets and bowlines. A little bulky I guess but it is good enough for the world champions racing those lithe little boats. It makes for an easy and quick change when changing head sails. "Soft"? What would hard be? Not a metal connection I hope? Jeeze!
> 
> Down


The major problem I found with bowlines is that they hang up on the shrouds during tacks. A Dutch Shackle (google it; it is similar to the OP) is what I use. It has the secondary advantage that it is faster to attach than a bowline, although we are talking seconds here.

However, I used to brag that it never came loose in over 10 years, and then it happened twice last year. May have to fiddle with it a bit.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Alex W said:


> I use a cow hitch when I have a single sheet, but I do think that it's hard on the clew of the sail. This system allows for an open loop through the sail so it isn't putting any wear on the corner.
> 
> I'm interested to see the instructions on tying the knot. "Bubble" isn't on animated knots or in my knot books.


It here: http://www.vycsd.com/bubble_knot.pdf


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Soft Halyard Shackle

This has become my favorite sheet attachment recently. It takes a few minutes to make enough of the knots for every sail, but after that connecting things is fast, and no metal.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> It here: http://www.vycsd.com/bubble_knot.pdf


Thanks. I tried it out at home and will try it on some sheets today.

I found it easier to tighten the whole knot once (which is a bit of a pain) so that the loop is very small. The tail with the stopper knot is then what goes through the sail clew and the tail is run through the loop, then the stopper knot is tied.

It works, but a soft shackle with a linesman loop (or other mid-line loop) in the middle of the sheet is probably easier if you want to keep a single line for the sheet. That is my preference, I don't like cutting sheets in half because you never know what the line may get used for next time.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Stumble said:


> Soft Halyard Shackle
> 
> This has become my favorite sheet attachment recently. It takes a few minutes to make enough of the knots for every sail, but after that connecting things is fast, and no metal.


How do you attach the soft shackle to the sheets? An eye splice? That would make for a smaller knot than my two bowlines.

Down


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> Why not just use a cow hitch / larks head?
> 
> ...


Maybe because it is kind of awkward to get the sheet free of the sail after use or during a sail change?

Must admit that I prefers a soft shackle to the knot in the OP.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

downeast450 said:


> How do you attach the soft shackle to the sheets? An eye splice? That would make for a smaller knot than my two bowlines.
> 
> Down


Two sheets with an eye splice in the end, this is the sheet on my Code 0, same for a head sail.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks good. I need to put some eye splices in my jib sheets. I have been playing with Dynema, too. Amazing stuff. What size did you use?

Down


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

downeast450 said:


> How do you attach the soft shackle to the sheets? An eye splice? That would make for a smaller knot than my two bowlines.
> 
> Down


If you look at the link, the sheet has an eye splice that slips. So it can be opened up. The opening is put over the knot (that is ring hitched to the sail ring) then as you tension the sheet it pulls the eye closed. It makes it almost impossible for the sheet to come off without human intervention, but only takes a second to pull it open when you need it.

As for size... It depends on which boat. I do a lot of splicing, and enjoy it, so I have pretty complicated sheets, more from having something to do than real justification.

On the Corsair 750 I just made some 1/4" sheets, that are buried into a 3/8 cover. But I think they may be too thick, so I am considering making some 1/8 tapered to 1/4 then to 3/8. This stuff is so easy to splice it's just fun to play with. Make up a few different sizes, then throw it on the boat and see what happens.

But then I have a set of light air sheets that are literally 100lbs test fishing line, spliced into a 1/4" covers... It's what happenes when you get a few drinks into a dead still day on the racing course and realize you forgot to unload the fishing pole.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Stumble,

I found a source of Amsteel last summer. At $10.00 / pound for mil ends I started using it for all sorts of things. It's ease of splicing, knot holding, low stretch, amazing strength, abrasion resistance and light weight has made it my favorite new toy. I gave soft shackles as stocking stuffers to my kids this past Christmas. Ha! (They are all adults). I just, last week, replaced the boat cover's support structure with an Amsteel ridge line and web. Now the entire 30' cover and structure fits into my Saab's trunk. You gotta love it. No more chain for twitching logs. No more meat hooks on the winch "cable". I love it. I did replace my life lines with it.

It hadn't occurred to me to use a soft shackle for my jib sheets until your post. Thanks! Now to splice eyes in the sheets. 

Down


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## Barrosa (Dec 3, 2012)

that just looks cool to me but i am bit unsure about the strength of this rope.....


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Strength of this stuff is amazing! 18,000 pounds for 3/8" Amsteel! That'l do er!

Down


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

Yeah dyneema/amsteel is great stuff, so easy to splice! And much cheaper to makes shackles out of. Here's my favorite soft shackle tying method. 
Better Soft Shackle

I use them now for nearly everything. Makes sense too. 1/4" amsteel has a breaking strength of 8400#, costs $1.40/ft and requires about 3 feet of material to make a shackle. Hard to beat that economy.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

My favorite personal reference image is lifting my I-28 with a piece of 1/4" line. Ha!

Down


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Lol. I always visualize lifting my car with a piece of 1/8".


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

Peterchech You got a good line going in this thread. Thanks for starting it ! Most of us have seen some good ideas for light and heavy air. Changing sheets under way and how to stay just a little more safe. Thanks to all of you Kind regards, Lou


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

This might be off topic but does a chart for sail area vs line size strength with wind speed exist? Lets take say the fishing line in the light air and 180 sq ft of sail needs to be what test ? Then with the same sail you will need a -- size line in a 20 knots? You may also need to change your choice of knot on the clew. Regards. Lou


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Lou,

There are formulas that will tell you sheet loads. I am on my iPhone now or I would post it. 

Basically with modern line you size for handling, the stuff is so strong it isn't an issue unless you use tapered sheets


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

Can we all agree that:
1. If you race, or have many different headsails, that two separate sheets are best, and may be tied on with bowlines, or whatever method you like.

2. that if you cruise, and use 1 headsail like 99% of the time, that a single sheet, attached with a cows hitch is pretty easy to so and very effective

3. That there are many different ways of attaching sheets to sails, and the you are able to choose the method that satisfies you and and that said method will not satisfy anyone else.

Barry



knuterikt said:


> Maybe because it is kind of awkward to get the sheet free of the sail after use or during a sail change?
> 
> Must admit that I prefers a soft shackle to the knot in the OP.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> Can we all agree that:
> 1. If you race, or have many different headsails, that two separate sheets are best, and may be tied on with bowlines, or whatever method you like.
> ...


I don't agree with (1). Two bowlines on the clew are a great way to get your jib stuck on shrouds, lifelines, whatever, when tacking. I much prefer a single sheet with a soft (Dutch) shackle.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

Lou452 said:


> This might be off topic but does a chart for sail area vs line size strength with wind speed exist? Lets take say the fishing line in the light air and 180 sq ft of sail needs to be what test ? Then with the same sail you will need a -- size line in a 20 knots? You may also need to change your choice of knot on the clew. Regards. Lou


Thanks Lou. Whenever I learn something interesting I try to share it online. I've learned so much myself from others who do the same.

Like stumble said, my understanding of jib sheets is that for the most part you are sizing up for ease of handling.

My light air spinnaker sheets are 1/8" vectran core. They have a tensile strength of about 2000# and could certainly handle the loads in heavy air too, but in anything over 15 knots they start cutting through the gloves. 25' boat.

I think of it this way. The winch on my mast is the same size as my primaries. I weigh about 200#, and get winched up the mast fairly often. I see how much effort is needed to get me up the mast with that winch, even though I usually help with my legs, and i can say with confidence that I never put nearly that much strain on my primaries while trimming the sheets, even beating or trimming the guy on a hot angle. So it is unlikely that the sheets have to handle any loads greater than that of my 200# (plus friction so to be safe I say 300#). Obviously you want some room for error, but still this gives a ballpark figure in my mind.

I have winched my 250# father up the mast of his 32' keelboat, and found that on his (larger) primaries, the strain in low gear while winching him up is about equal to the max strain in low gear on the primaries while trimming, so for his 32 footer a minimum working load of say 375# is required, plus a margin of error. So 1/4" sta set polyester double braid, with a tensile strength of 2350#, and a working load for non critical applications of about 460# (tensile strength/5), could theoretically handle the loads. But it would be tough as hell on the hands and there may not be enough room on the winch for the number of turns you would need to make it manageable!

I tend to overestimate loads on my own boat, it helps to be able to put things in perspective.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

Lou452 said:


> This might be off topic but does a chart for sail area vs line size strength with wind speed exist? Lets take say the fishing line in the light air and 180 sq ft of sail needs to be what test ? Then with the same sail you will need a -- size line in a 20 knots? You may also need to change your choice of knot on the clew. Regards. Lou


Not a chart but calculators, input some measurements and click Harken


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## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

One more thought for my life line anchor at work we are told 5000 lbs this is for the average mans weight for 200 lbs as average. I am 180lbs We have seen films in a fall of six foot a 200 pound block can get shock loads of 2-3000 lbs That is why they want the 5000 lbs safety anchor. This jerk might be why knots get so tight or lines snap. I just wish I could tack that fast LOL Regards, Lou


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Lou452 said:


> One more thought for my life line anchor at work we are told 5000 lbs this is for the average mans weight for 200 lbs as average. I am 180lbs We have seen films in a fall of six foot a 200 pound block can get shock loads of 2-3000 lbs That is why they want the 5000 lbs safety anchor. This jerk might be why knots get so tight or lines snap. I just wish I could tack that fast LOL Regards, Lou


I suspect that there's more to it than that. The 200 lb downward pull on a horizontal lifeline results in a tension that is many times greater than 200 lb. Some simple force vector calculations can show that easily.


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