# Anchor Size/Weight?



## parttimesailor (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm new to the coast of Massachusetts, but plan to do some near-shore sailing this Summer. My question - are there any good tools to estimate what size anchor and rode I would need for a 22', 1800-lb boat?


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

Pick a style of anchor that you like then go to their web site. They all have a selection chart. Weight of anchor is very dependant on the particular style and manufacturer.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Check with folks who cruise in your area as well. They'll know what the bottom is like in your cruising grounds. Some anchors perform better than others depending on the bottom.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Old rule of thumb -
One pound of anchor for every foot of boat length.
One foot of chain for every foot of boat length.

The above suggestions are a minimum.

Enough rode to anchor with at least 7:1 scope.

As previously suggested, ask local sailors what type of anchor works best in your area.


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

There have been a number of good anchor reviews in the last few years, Sail Magazine West Marine being one. West Marine's website and cataloge have a lot of good information on different types of anchors. I'd be more inclined to do my own research rather than asking random individuals or looking at what is hanging off the boats in the marina, at least in addition to asking and looking. There is a lot of old technology hanging on boats that don't hardley leave the slip.


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

*Go a little bigger...*

Welcome to some great cruising grounds...we sail the area and though we use a 30' boat 10,500lbs have found a Rocna 15lber and 30' of chain to be plenty..check out their sight. If you plan on overnighting its a great choice.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

The largest anchor you can physically manage to deploy and recover. 

Hey, why take unnecessary chances!


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## ulferlingsson (Jun 10, 2010)

parttimesailor said:


> I'm new to the coast of Massachusetts, but plan to do some near-shore sailing this Summer. My question - are there any good tools to estimate what size anchor and rode I would need for a 22', 1800-lb boat?


Regardless of where you are sailing, based on my experience from similar sized boats, and diving to inspect the anchors on various bottoms, depths, and winds, I'd advice as follows:

Use a plough style anchor (one solid piece). Do NOT use a Danforth style, they sometimes don't grip, sometimes get damaged. Use about 5 to 6 m of 6 mm short-linked galvanized chain as a minimum, but 8 mm is better (i.e., about 20 feet of 1/4" chain or 5/16" inch chain for those who insist in using old measurement units).

After that, the best is a special anchor rope that can yield under stress, but does not twist. Absolute minimum size is 10 mm (3/8") but I would recommend 12 mm (1/2"). You need to have about 50 m of that onboard (150' - 200') if you sail on open coasts, but 30 m (100') is sufficient if you are only sailing on protected waters (with short fetch thus small waves).

The anchor is not just for when you WANT to "park", it is also an "emergency park" tool, so what counts is the kind of waters you are sailing on, not where you spend the night at.

Stainless is good because it is easy to clean off the mud, if you anchor on a bottom with very dirtying sediment, and you store the anchor onboard. As for the chain and rope, I sewed myself a bag out of an old sail, with strong handles. That made it easy to carry the stuff from one part of the boat to another, without dirtying everything on the way. It also stores easier onboard, than loose chain and rope.

When I was sailing on really big waters I actually used all chain on my 20' boat. 100 m, 6 mm short-linked chain. But that's because we were anchoring on the open North Atlantic off Iceland at 35 m depth to dive...

PS. Whatever length chain you use short of the entire distance, you can find yourself on an anchorage with a rock ledge that will eat your rope off (I once recovered 5 anchors from a harbour where that had happened, they all used 5 m chain). Unless you have chain all the way, if you have an echosounder, check how rough the bottom is. Beware of rocks!


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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

Gary M said:


> Pick a style of anchor that you like


Based on what? Best to pick a style that works.



Gary M said:


> then go to their web site. They all have a selection chart. Weight of anchor is very dependant on the particular style and manufacturer.


Recommendations across manufacturers are never comparable (at all) so it's no good just looking at the numbers - you need to know what they're based on. While some few are realistic, most push the lower limits in an effort to appear 'better' or cheaper.



ulferlingsson said:


> Use a plough style anchor (one solid piece).


Are you trying to [incorrectly] define any single-piece anchor as a 'plow', or actually suggesting a fixed shank plow (in other words a Delta - in which case why not say so)? All articulated plows (CQRs and copies) are by definition two-piece finger crunchers 



parttimesailor said:


> I'm new to the coast of Massachusetts, but plan to do some near-shore sailing this Summer. My question - are there any good tools to estimate what size anchor and rode I would need for a 22', 1800-lb boat?


What size anchor depends on what type anchor, as there is a very wide range of performance. Even within the selection of general purpose asymmetrical anchors, weight-for-weight holding varies greatly. Also, at your boat's size you will be tempted by a multitude of cheap junk, but if you want a serious anchor for coastal use you are best advised to avoid these and stick to what your research will turn up as a reliable and good quality safety device.

Chain and rope should be matched to the anchor, but assuming you have something sensible, 6-7 mm - 1/4" G40 / high-test is about right. You need enough of it to clear the seabed and obstacles like rocks which will abrade/chafe rope, in a mud environment then a chain leader the LOA of the boat is generally a good length. For rope, 12 mm or 14 mm nylon, 12 mm nylon 8- or square-braid would be ideal (3-strand less so), and enough of it to make up adequate scope in deepest foreseeable water. Don't forget high quality shackles, forged if not tested.


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## parttimesailor (Sep 18, 2006)

*Thanks for the relies...*

appreciate the constructive suggestions. I'm just getting my chart and will launch shortly - so the quick feedback is appreciated.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Lewmar claw 15 or 22lb. Claws set in everything except for grass. They don't develop a lot of holding power, but they will hold your small boat in storm conditions if you go with an oversized one like the 22.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

tager said:


> Lewmar claw 15 or 22lb. Claws set in everything ...


Not if this is to be believed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Anchor_holding_power_graph.jpg

(I didn't make it an in-line image cuz it's so flippin' huge.)

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

IIRC, you have a 15 KG rocna that weighs in at 33 lbs... same as mine.. .  A 15 lb. anchor would be a bit undersized for your boat, regardless of the design.


Joesaila said:


> Welcome to some great cruising grounds...we sail the area and though we use a 30' boat 10,500lbs have found a Rocna 15lber and 30' of chain to be plenty..check out their sight. If you plan on overnighting its a great choice.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd recommend going with a small next generation anchor, like the Manson Supreme or Rocna. These tend to work better in more situations than the older designs. 

A 6 KG or 13.25 lb. Rocna would be a good choice IMHO with about 30' of 1/4 G43 high-test chain and then 150' of 1/2" nylon.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I still say always deploy the storm anchor. 

You slip quietly into a secluded little cove, few boats around, gentle breeze in the leaves of the trees surrounding your little paradise. Then SCREECH Crunchcrunchscreeeeech CrrrrrrrSPLASH Rattlerattlerattlerattle, in goes the 150lb Rocna dragging out 200 feet of chain. Your 20' boat is now safe, start the blender.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While wind magic's reply is a bit tongue in cheek, I would have to agree that your primary anchor should be the "storm" anchor.

Too often, there isn't time to get the "storm" anchor properly deployed when a sudden summer thunderstorm pops up, and it is much less stressful to have an anchor that can handle storm conditions as your primary, since you don't have to worry about what if a storm comes up as much when you are away from the boat.



wind_magic said:


> I still say always deploy the storm anchor.
> 
> You slip quietly into a secluded little cove, few boats around, gentle breeze in the leaves of the trees surrounding your little paradise. Then SCREECH Crunchcrunchscreeeeech CrrrrrrrSPLASH Rattlerattlerattlerattle, in goes the 150lb Rocna dragging out 200 feet of chain. Your 20' boat is now safe, start the blender.


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## SoulVoyage (May 9, 2010)

Even on a 22 foot boat I would suggest having at least TWO anchors at the ready at ALL times. I would recommend a small CQR plow, but am not sure if they come in sizes smaller than 25lbs...if not, get the 25 pounder. For the second anchor, in contrast to what someone else said, I would recommend a Danforth...13 lbs would be good for your boat. Always match your anchor to the bottom type.

If I am going to be leaving the boat and am not sure about pending squalls in the anchorage...I use Moitessier's method and set two anchor's from one rode. I like using a combination of the danforth AND the CQR for this....if one drags due to improper bottom, the other anchor will hold and stop the drag of the former. A good swivel is mandatory for this procedure, but you should always use a swivel anyway...don't forget to buy one!!

As for rode...I concur and recommend at least 150 feet of 3/8th nylon rode for that boat (I think 1/2" for an 1800 lb boat might be overkill)....you'll want to couple this with as much chain as you can afford AND STOW (do you have a anchor-locker to stow chain?). For your boat...30 feet might work. 

ALWAYS sound your potential anchorage first and make sure you don't drop in a deep ledge area that will chafe your rode. 

Even for a small 1800 lb boat, I would recommend a small, but capable stern anchor, ready with it's own rode. These stern anchors REALLY come in handy. Depends what kind of room you have on your transom, though.

The above, of course, ALL depends how much room you have for anchor and rode stowage, and whether you have a chain-locker forward.

Myself, I go overkill with anchors...I never like to leave port without FIVE.
CQR, Danforth, Stern CQR, Fisherman's, and spare CQR stowed. and small 13 pound danforth for the dinghy (I know...8lbs would do!). Presently I'm looking for a good deal on a Paul Luke....They're expensive!! Anybody got one they want to donate??


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SoulVoyage said:


> Even on a 22 foot boat I would suggest having at least TWO anchors at the ready at ALL times.


I would agree with that.



SoulVoyage said:


> I would recommend a small CQR plow,


I would not, based on the WM/SAIL tests (chart above), this test: SOFT MUD BOTTOM ANCHOR TEST and comments I've seen, here-and-there.

If you're not going to go with a Rocna or Manson Supreme due to expense, I'd go with a Delta. (Which we did.)



SoulVoyage said:


> For the second anchor, in contrast to what someone else said, I would recommend a Danforth...


Concur. But perhaps in part because that's what we have 

Jim


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> I would agree with that.
> 
> I would not, based on the WM/SAIL tests (chart above), this test: SOFT MUD BOTTOM ANCHOR TEST and comments I've seen, here-and-there.
> 
> ...


Agree 100% I can't remember an anchor test where the CQR has perfprmed well. In any where they have done so-so the model being used is usually much heavier than the other anchors being tested.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

A 1800 lb 22' boat, assuming it is that light, does not need at 15 lb anchor! except in Hurricane strength winds. Also, Plow types come in sizes as small as 5 lbs, as do danforths. a 5-10 lb anchor will hold you boat fine in most any and all conditions. 

I have heard the area you are in is mostly mud, could be wrong, so get an anchor that works in mud. Chain length, 15-20 should be ample. 

I have a 7.5kg/16.5lb bruce with 15' of chain, 250' of 5/8 3 strand, hold fine in my area. Racing per the local rules, I only need a min of a 5lb anchor, and 3 lbs of chain, or a single 8 lb anchor and rope rode. Please note, that is a minimum requirement! For my boat the 7.5kg bruce is good/rated by manufacture to 40 knots of wind. the 10KG model is good to 60 knots. I would ask myself, how often are you going to be anchored in 60 knots of wind, and do you really need the BIGGEST anchor.

Marty


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## Stiche (Oct 5, 2006)

Lots of recommendations, lots of opinions. Everyone is going to have their personal favorite, but the easiest way to find the best anchor is to walk the marina (or a couple of marinas!) and see what everyone else is carrying on their bow. 

Up in the PNW, it's a pretty close tie between a "Bruce" or a "CQR", followed by Deltas and Danforths. Danforths are the most common on smaller pleasure boats because they are more lightweight, but for anything other that "pleasure anchoring" you want more weight, and the Danforth is not as good as the plow-styles at grabbing in mud.


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## mpickering (Jun 11, 2010)

I have a 13lb Danforth and I added a 10lb Fortress to relegate the Danforth to a backup. I sail in the Chesapeake Bay which is mostly soft mud bottom and the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke is ideal. My driver was weight since I manually deploy it. 

I have 30 feet of chain on 150 feet of rope rode. Enough to let me anchor in 20 feet of water inshore (my primary areas). I like the set up since the light Fortress let me trade Danforth steel weight for extra chain. With 30' of chain, I can reduce scope to 3:1 to 4:1 in 10 feet of water for small or crowded anchorages (most of my favorite places are 10-12' in depth) and still hold.

Just newbie info based on what works for me. This is for a Catalina 27. A future upgrade would be a Delta. Or a different boat with a bow roller and all chain rode.

Matt


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## bluwateronly (Jul 8, 2008)

Got to chime in on this one. I can hear it now, I checked the chart and this anchor is big enough, wife says okay, why are we so far from where we anchored? When I drop the hook on my 31' boat I have an anchor down that is supposed to hold a 40' boat. I sleep well. I can still pull it all up by hand I just sing an old song-heave ho and a bottle of rum.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

This is a timely message thread for me. The good news is my 25' boat came with not just one but two anchors. The bad news is they are both 8 lb. Danforth clones - likely insufficient for my boat, especially under emergency conditions. My anchor locker is sized and shaped to fit a 13-14 lb. Danforth perfectly (nothing larger or bulkier). It is exactly 22" wide, with notches for the stock.

While I would really like to economize on an anchor, since I have no plans to anchor for pleasure, for an emergency I want something with the greatest likelihood of setting and holding in a variety of conditions. Soft mud is especially important on the Delaware River, so it looks like I'll spring the extra $$ for a Fortress FX-11. It looks like it performed pretty spectacularly in that tests on powerandmotoryacht.com, and can adjust to a higher angle for soft mud. Based in WM's table I could go down to an FX-7 for a 25 foot boat, but the 11 will still fit in my locker so I'll go with that. I'll keep one of the 8 pounders on board as a stern anchor.

FWIW, I think some of you guys may be over-sizing your rodes. In stormy conditions you want flex in the line so you don't drag as your boat pitches. Even in the rarified world of Sailnet perfectionism, bigger is not always better. Chapman says: "Some boaters unwittingly lose part or most of the advantage inherent in nylon by using too large a line...Some experienced boaters use nylon as light as 3/8 inch in diameter on the working anchors of their 30- to 40- foot craft..."


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would point out one thing... often, in an emergency, like the engine dying suddenly, you don't have time to stop the boat and perform a properly anchor setting routine... and a Fortress is fairly unlikely to set if the boat has any way on at the time you drop it, as it may plane like a KITE... I'd highly recommend getting an anchor that has enough weight to get to the bottom and set under less than ideal conditions...

As an example, recently, on a delivery of a catamaran, we had the engine die on us in a channel which is very narrow and the areas outside it are very shallow... 0-3 on a chart... I dropped the Rocna off the bow and had the boat stopped dead with less than 3:1 scope in 3 knots of current without having had to stop the boat completely. *#*$*## crab pots... 

As for anchor rode diameters... I'd point out that yes, going oversized has it problems, but not as many as going undersized... a 3/8" rode has very little margin for chafe damage. 



RhythmDoctor said:


> This is a timely message thread for me. The good news is my 25' boat came with not just one but two anchors. The bad news is they are both 8 lb. Danforth clones - likely insufficient for my boat, especially under emergency conditions. My anchor locker is sized and shaped to fit a 13-14 lb. Danforth perfectly (nothing larger or bulkier). It is exactly 22" wide, with notches for the stock.
> 
> While I would really like to economize on an anchor, since I have no plans to anchor for pleasure, for an emergency I want something with the greatest likelihood of setting and holding in a variety of conditions. Soft mud is especially important on the Delaware River, so it looks like I'll spring the extra $$ for a Fortress FX-11. It looks like it performed pretty spectacularly in that tests on powerandmotoryacht.com, and can adjust to a higher angle for soft mud. Based in WM's table I could go down to an FX-7 for a 25 foot boat, but the 11 will still fit in my locker so I'll go with that. I'll keep one of the 8 pounders on board as a stern anchor.
> 
> FWIW, I think some of you guys may be over-sizing your rodes. In stormy conditions you want flex in the line so you don't drag as your boat pitches. Even in the rarified world of Sailnet perfectionism, bigger is not always better. Chapman says: "Some boaters unwittingly lose part or most of the advantage inherent in nylon by using too large a line...Some experienced boaters use nylon as light as 3/8 inch in diameter on the working anchors of their 30- to 40- foot craft..."


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that having essentially identical anchors is generally not a good idea. If a Danforth is having trouble grabbing, a Fortress isn't likely to do any better... better to have a variety of anchors.

*I'd also point out that your scope calculations REALLY SHOULD INCLUDE the height of the bow roller off the water.* This can make a significant difference. For instance, if you're anchored in 10' of water and your bow roller is 3' off the water, laying out 50' of rode isn't the 5:1 scope you might think, but more like 4:1 as your depth, from the bow roller, is 13'... 13*4 = 52'.

If you typically anchor in areas as deep as 20'... I'd recommend going with at least 200' of nylon in addition to the 30' of chain. If you're anchored in 20' with 3' to the bow roller, 180' can only give you about 7.5:1 scope at a maximum.... and if you anchored in 20' of water at low tide... even less.

BTW, adding a bow roller and a chain pawl would allow you to retrieve the anchor and chain with far less strain.



mpickering said:


> I have a 13lb Danforth and I added a 10lb Fortress to relegate the Danforth to a backup. I sail in the Chesapeake Bay which is mostly soft mud bottom and the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke is ideal. My driver was weight since I manually deploy it.
> 
> I have 30 feet of chain on 150 feet of rope rode. Enough to let me anchor in 20 feet of water inshore (my primary areas). I like the set up since the light Fortress let me trade Danforth steel weight for extra chain. With 30' of chain, I can reduce scope to 3:1 to 4:1 in 10 feet of water for small or crowded anchorages (most of my favorite places are 10-12' in depth) and still hold.
> 
> ...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I might consider additional anchors in the future, but one of the compromises on a 25' boat is storage space, so I initially want to try to fit into the spaces that I have. I have a very shallow anchor locker that is designed to fit a Danforth shape (though a bigger Danforth than what's in there now), so I'm sticking with that for my next anchor. Your comment about kiting favors steel over Al, but could extra chain help get it to the bottom better if you are moving? Or are you saying that the Al anchor would kite beneath the chain?

Bow roller and chain pawl are good ideas, but the bow of the C250 is too small to accommodate any extra deck-mounted hardware. There is only about 6" of deck in front of the anchor locker hatch.


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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

Danforths shouldn't be used as primary general purpose anchors, period. How and why they fail is detail. If that's all you have available, it is a risk, you will just have to deal with it, not leave the boat unattended in risky circumstances, etc. Chain will not make any difference.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I might consider additional anchors in the future, but one of the compromises on a 25' boat is storage space, so I initially want to try to fit into the spaces that I have. I have a very shallow anchor locker that is designed to fit a Danforth shape (though a bigger Danforth than what's in there now), ...


It looks like a 14 lb. (6.4kg) Delta Fastset is about right for your boat. It can't be all that big. We have the 22 lb. (10kg) one at home, awaiting chain and rode, and it's not all that big. The 14 lb. Delta can be had for a bit over $100 (USD).



RhythmDoctor said:


> Your comment about kiting favors steel over Al, but could extra chain help get it to the bottom better if you are moving? Or are you saying that the Al anchor would kite beneath the chain?


I think you're missing the point. The point is that Danforth-style anchors are prone to kiting *period*.

We've got a steel Danforth, maybe 15-20 lbs., w/about 8' of chain on it on Abracadabra. I can persuade it to set, but the key word there is "persuade." I'd hate to have it come loose due to a wind shift or current change, because I wouldn't trust it to re-set on its own.

We've got a tiny little Danforth on our little stink-boat, too. With _that_ one I've been able to observe closely how the anchor behaves, because I've always used it in shallow water, usually a soft sandy bottom, when we've stopped the boat to wade, swim and hang out. After having played with it a bit, my impression is confirmed that it's not an anchor I'd care to trust. The little stink-boat also has a baby claw anchor on her--that one with about 4-6' of chain. _That's_ the anchor I'd be more inclined to trust to set and possibly re-set if I had to trust one on that little boat. (Tho I haven't played with it, yet, so perhaps I'm speaking out of turn.)

Likewise: If and when we ever finally go cruising: That Delta sitting in the garage will get set up with chain and rode and will be going along.

Jim


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> It looks like a 14 lb. (6.4kg) Delta Fastset is about right for your boat. It can't be all that big. We have the 22 lb. (10kg) one at home, awaiting chain and rode, and it's not all that big. The 14 lb. Delta can be had for a bit over $100 (USD).


Sounds like a great anchor, even if it's not a Rocna  . I will remeasure the depth of my locker when I get back to the boat to see if it can accommodate an anchor that is 10-1/4"H.


SEMIJim said:


> ...I think you're missing the point. The point is that Danforth-style anchors are prone to kiting *period*...


Maybe I did miss the point, but his comment seemed to be directed specifically at the aluminum Fortress, not at all Danforth types. It is easy to see how the shape of the Danforth could cause kiting. But kites fly better if they are made out of lighter materials, so it's natural to think the problem might be a little less with a steel anchor.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> Maybe I did miss the point, but his comment seemed to be directed specifically at the aluminum Fortress, not at all Danforth types.


It was my impression he meant all Danforth types and my personal, albeit limited, experience tends to bear that out.

But, and this is a big "but," I've so exceedingly little experience with anchors and anchoring that you should definitely take anything I say with a large grain of salt. Most of what I "know" is from reading.

Jim


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

Stiche said:


> Lots of recommendations, lots of opinions. Everyone is going to have their personal favorite, but the easiest way to find the best anchor is to walk the marina (or a couple of marinas!) and see what everyone else is carrying on their bow.
> 
> Up in the PNW, it's a pretty close tie between a "Bruce" or a "CQR", followed by Deltas and Danforths. Danforths are the most common on smaller pleasure boats because they are more lightweight, but for anything other that "pleasure anchoring" you want more weight, and the Danforth is not as good as the plow-styles at grabbing in mud.


I really don't agree that walking the docks is the best way to decide on an anchor. It might be one consideration but if that was how all equipment was decided on we'd all have the same equipment and nothing would improve. You need to read all the tests and reports you can find. Has a CQR done well in any recent tests? I have yet to see one.


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## mpickering (Jun 11, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that having essentially identical anchors is generally not a good idea. If a Danforth is having trouble grabbing, a Fortress isn't likely to do any better... better to have a variety of anchors.
> 
> *I'd also point out that your scope calculations REALLY SHOULD INCLUDE the height of the bow roller off the water.* This can make a significant difference. For instance, if you're anchored in 10' of water and your bow roller is 3' off the water, laying out 50' of rode isn't the 5:1 scope you might think, but more like 4:1 as your depth, from the bow roller, is 13'... 13*4 = 52'.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! My scope calculations do include height of the bow off the water plus a foot for safety.

I'd like to add a bow roller and pawl but that will have to wait until next season. Honestly, most of my anchoring will be done in protected anchorages in less than 15 feet of water.

I kept the Danforth solely because it came with the boat. I selected the Fortress specifically for Bay mud and something my wife could handle. I would have preferred to go with an FX-16 but it wouldn't fit assembled and accessible in my bow locker. So I opted for one size bigger rather than two sizes.

So I don't have a "storm" anchor and that may be a mistake on my part. Agreed I should have two different anchor types but that is going to have to come with time. All of my sailing for the next year or two is going to be daysailing with perhaps a rare overnight anchored in a protected cove that is 10 feet deep at low tide. If I should have another anchor onboard, I'm willing to entertain suggestions.

Matt


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I really don't agree that walking the docks is the best way to decide on an anchor. It might be one consideration but if that was how all equipment was decided on we'd all have the same equipment and nothing would improve. You need to read all the tests and reports you can find. Has a CQR done well in any recent tests? I have yet to see one.


If the test was done in sand and you sail over mud bottoms, the test could be meaningless. That's why talking to local sailors is so important. So far everyone I've talked to has said a steel Danforth knockoff works perfectly fine in our area, and I would be wasting my money going with anything more expensive. One guy specifically commented that you all are too anxious to spend other people's money.

I'm not saying I agree with him, but that's what he said.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

RhythmDoctor said:


> One guy specifically commented that you all are too anxious to spend other people's money.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with him, but that's what he said.


Perhaps we just don't want our boats dragged into in the middle of the night by someone with an anchor that did not re-set because some "dock expert", who anchors once per season in 5 knots, told him that a knock off Danforth was the best thing since sliced bread.

Or like the clown below, who even with an all chain rode, dragged into me at 7:00 in the morning in about 15 knots of wind with a CQR... 150% inexcusable!!!!!!!

This picture was taken after his second or third attempt to re-set. I literally dove into my RIB and jammed it between our boats to prevent having to get a new 10k paint job. I really wish other boaters would begin to post photos of people who suck at anchoring to warn others about who NOT to anchor near...

If you see this boat MOVE!!!!!!









Thanks to the clown above our day of hiking on that island was ruined as I had NO confidence anchoring anywhere near that guy.. Drag into me in 65 knots and well...ok, 40 knots perhaps a lapse in judgment, 15 knots NO F"ING way. Buy and RV if you are that clueless.

Try to think about others when you anchor not just yourself because it is not only your boat you may ruin....

BTW the yearly increase in your insurance premium, from your boat on the ledge, can be more EACH YEAR than the ONE TIME cost difference between a good anchor and a cheap one..

Rant over...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

No need to get defensive - I value all inputs. And I am not sure it's fair of you to claim that the people I talked to all "anchor once per season in 5 knots". They have a variety of experiences, some agree with what is being said here (and some disagree). And I am sure that you will admit that no anchor can fully overcome all possible user errors - such as the insufficient scope shown in the picture you posted.

We all have a different frequency of anchoring, different bottoms, different conditions of anchoring, and different conditions (overnight/short stay, attended/unattended, etc.). So I think it's a truism that no one solution is right for everybody.

I appreciate everyone's comments. Unfortunately it will be impossible for me to follow every one of them, since the do conflict with each other. But I have a good variety of suggestions to choose from.

And please do not be offended by this, but I also do believe that many of the comments here tend to assume infinite budget, infinite space, and anticipate the ability to address every conceivable worst-case scenario. It's very educational and fun to read, but as a practical matter it is impossible to follow every suggestion.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

RhythmDoctor said:


> No need to get defensive - I value all inputs.


Sorry not defensive I just get frustrated. I have helped to haul many a beautiful boat off the rocks and had my own boat get hit, due to corner cutting and penny pinching by the other owner. The penny pinching on the other party's part caused my boat 25k in damage when I was smashed into. Here in Maine when you drag anchor you hit ROCKS and can destroy your vessel or someone elses.

We KNOW Danforth type anchors have a horrible re-set record. Watched a J boat re-set seven times in one storm in Winter Harbor on Vinalhaven Island. Boat would hold fine until the wind off the cliffs would shift then swing them until the anchor un-set. Long night for everyone in the anchorage.



RhythmDoctor said:


> And I am not sure it's fair of you to claim that the people I talked to all "anchor once per season in 5 knots".


Sorry, it was not meant to be an accurate statement but rather a generalization hence the "winkie".



RhythmDoctor said:


> And I am sure that you will admit that no anchor can fully overcome all possible user errors - such as the insufficient scope shown in the picture you posted.


You can never overcome user error but some of the anchors out now go a long way to helping eliminate setting issues as some are nearly self setting. That photo was shot while they were re-setting and in proces hence the short looking scope. They were using about 5:1 but in this particular anchorage that is all you can possibly do. Also all chain rarely ever looks like "proper" scope. The CQR could not do it at 5:1. They did try at a longer scope and then shortened but still broke free again. The big problem was not as much his scope but the fat that he never actually "set" the anchor or backed down to see if it was set.



RhythmDoctor said:


> We all have a different frequency of anchoring, different bottoms, different conditions of anchoring, and different conditions (overnight/short stay, attended/unattended, etc.). So I think it's a truism that no one solution is right for everybody.


That is correct that no one solution is right but to go with a solution that has a long history of know issues, such as poor re-setability, is a flase economy IMHO.



RhythmDoctor said:


> And please do not be offended by this, but I also do believe that many of the comments here tend to assume infinite budget, infinite space, and anticipate the ability to address every conceivable worst-case scenario. It's very educational and fun to read, but as a practical matter it is impossible to follow every suggestion.


When it comes down to it if you can afford to have three boats you should be able to afford a decent grond tackle system which really should include more than just one type of anchor. Heck if you want to use Home Depot ball valve as seacocks I will try and talk you out of it but if you don't want the advice no skin off my back, I did my part. Anchoring on the otehr hand INVOLVES others. Your decisions can potentially impact me or any other boater in an anchorage. As one who has been hit, draged down onto and yanked and kedged boats off ledges yes I do believe if you have the funds to own, maintain, dock and insure a boat you should also have the funds to ensure it is anchored it adequately.

I'm sorry but I can't accept the argument of using a Danforth knock off because it was inexpensive when it is a know poor re-setter. Don't get me wrong I own and USE a Fortress (Danforth type). It is a great anchor if you can guarantee it will never need to re-set. I use mine as a dedicated stern anchor, works great for this, but I would never consider it for anything but. I have tried it as a primary, many, many years ago, and had it fail to reset on me. Once is to much.. Grew up on Danforth anchors in the 70's and had many a night in the cockpit waiting for it to un-set when the wind or tide shifted. Did not always un-set but did engough to cause us to often have someone on anchor watch..

If you can assure you won't have wind shifts at anchor go for it if not at least consider a Delta or a used Bruce, anchors known as decent re-setters.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Why would any responsible sailor (or should I say boater?) buy a nice boat, insure it and buy good equipment like a nice barbeque or whatever and then rely on a p*ss poor lightweight anchor? It doesn't make sense but as long as you don't anchor near me.....


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

RhythmDoctor said:


> And please do not be offended by this, but I also do believe that many of the comments here tend to assume infinite budget, infinite space, and anticipate the ability to address every conceivable worst-case scenario. It's very educational and fun to read, but as a practical matter it is impossible to follow every suggestion.


I'm one of the people who is constantly arguing the point you just made, that you don't need this, or that, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, cruising on a budget, and all the rest. But even I get the best ground tackle I can get, that is one of the things on a boat I would not try to save money on. The most important things on the boat are the hull so it doesn't sink, and the ground tackle so it doesn't crash into something and then sink.  Sails are even secondary to good solid ground tackle in my opinion.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> So far everyone I've talked to has said a steel Danforth knockoff works perfectly fine in our area, and I would be wasting my money going with anything more expensive.


You know what they say about "opinions," right? 

Well, here's mine, in summary:
In my experience, Danforth anchors can be difficult to set well.
In the experience of others: Danforth anchors cannot trusted to reset dependably.
Those two characteristics are enough to count them out as a primary anchor for _our_ boat.

You do what you want with your boat. Btw: If your boat runs into ours, it will be you or your insurance company paying for the repairs.



RhythmDoctor said:


> One guy specifically commented that you all are too anxious to spend other people's money.


Yeah, The Admiral says much the same thing. Thing is: The "common wisdom" on SN often turns out to be right. You disregard it at your risk.



RhythmDoctor said:


> ... I also do believe that many of the comments here tend to assume infinite budget, infinite space, and anticipate the ability to address every conceivable worst-case scenario. It's very educational and fun to read, but as a practical matter it is impossible to follow every suggestion.


Yeah, The Admiral has been known to say things like this, too.

I _still_ refused to consider ever cruising and over-nighting on the hook until and unless we had what _I_ considered to be at least a minimally-adequate anchor.

Btw: I would've insisted on going up one size in the Delta, because I like insurance, but The Admiral _must_ be able to lift it, and, for a variety of reasons, she's limited to about 20 lbs. So, with the 22 lb. Delta + chain, she'll already be well over her limit. A Rocna or Manson Surpreme, even at the same weight, would've been out-of-the-question, because of the weight of the mud they can drag up from the bottom.

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out, that for a lot of the boats on Sailnet... say 35' or smaller, the cost of a decent anchor and anchor rode is less than $1000. You can get a Rocna or Manson Supreme in the 33-35 lb. range, which is good for boats up to Maine Sails CS36T or so, with a pre-spliced rode that is 30' 5/16" G43 chain and 270' of 5/8" octoplait nylon rope for about $700-800. The anchor is good for ten years with little additional cost...the rode, which is $350 of th cost, is good for at least two-to-three, with inspection and depending on how often you anchor out. A galvanized, load-rated crosby shackle is about $8.

*It amazes me that people who spend $30,000 or more on a boat, won't spend the $800 for a decent primary anchor and rode... *

BTW, I'd also point out that a good anchor is an IMPORTANT PIECE OF SAFETY GEAR. _When something goes wrong, like wrapping a line around the prop... dropping the anchor and setting it can often give you time to deal with the issue without having things go from bad to worse. _


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> Btw: I would've insisted on going up one size in the Delta, because I like insurance, but The Admiral _must_ be able to lift it, and, for a variety of reasons, she's limited to about 20 lbs. So, with the 22 lb. Delta + chain, she'll already be well over her limit. A Rocna or Manson Surpreme, even at the same weight, would've been out-of-the-question, because of the weight of the mud they can drag up from the bottom.
> 
> Jim


I'll have to disagree with the sequence of logic in deciding what size anchor to use. The first decision should be what size anchor does the boat require, not what can be handled by captain and crew. The second issue is can the captain and crew handle the required size anchor. If not, then decide what equipment is needed to assist the captain and crew, windlas . BTW, why is the "Admiral" handling the anchor? Shouldn't the admiral be at the helm?


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I'll have to disagree with the sequence of logic in deciding what size anchor to use.


Perhaps you failed to read thoroughly my comments?



LinekinBayCD said:


> The first decision should be what size anchor does the boat require, ...


Yes, and the recommendation, for our boat, for a Delta, is the 10 kg. model. That's why I chose it.

The part I guess you missed is where I wrote "because I like insurance."



LinekinBayCD said:


> If not, then decide what equipment is needed to assist the captain and crew, windlas.


No room on the bow for a windlass + anchor. Not w/o making the bow unusable for anything else, anyway. Coupled with the batteries: I wouldn't have that kind of weight up there, anyway. (We race the boat.) No anchor locker up there to store the rode and chain. Never mind the expen$e!



LinekinBayCD said:


> BTW, why is the "Admiral" handling the anchor? Shouldn't the admiral be at the helm?


Typically The Admiral _doesn't_ handle the anchor. Typically _I'm_ the deck monkey. But we make at least a nominal effort to make sure each of us can do everything in case one of us should become disabled while on the water. Don't you think that's wise?

So, while I'd _liked_ to have gone up one anchor size _for insurance_, for the sake of practicality and crew flexibility I went with the manufacturer's recommendation.

Jim


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I'll have to disagree with the sequence of logic in deciding what size anchor to use. The first decision should be what size anchor does the boat require, not what can be handled by captain and crew. The second issue is can the captain and crew handle the required size anchor. If not, then decide what equipment is needed to assist the captain and crew, windlas . BTW, why is the "Admiral" handling the anchor? Shouldn't the admiral be at the helm?




I would like to argue the point.

You said the first decision should be what size anchor does the boat require, not what can be handled by captain and crew (meaning bigger, not smaller than the recommended size).

Why do you believe that ?

The obvious upside to having the largest anchor you can reasonably deal with is that it provides extra protection for the boat, in some cases a lot of extra protection since your boat may only "require" an anchor that is 1/3rd the size you can handle.

The downside of having the largest anchor you can reasonably deal with ? Inconvenience, that is it. Assuming the cost isn't a burden to you, what other reason could there be for not using the largest anchor that you can reasonably deal with except that it's heavy and you just don't feel like dealing with it ? I guess someone could make an argument for lots of heavy ground tackle affecting the boat's performance underway, but it seems like a small price to pay, and I really don't think that is the reason people choose not to do it, not when people are more than happy to load their boats down with all kinds of other heavy gear.

If convenience is the biggest reason that people choose not to use heavier anchors, because they are heavy, hard to move around on deck, etc, isn't that a pretty poor reason to make that choice ?

Using a heavier anchor is always better, because there really isn't a "required" size anchor for any boat, there may be a minimum recommended size, but bigger is always better in terms of holding power, etc, there is no downside to deploying a bigger anchor except that it just isn't fun to deploy, and in my mind that is a really lousy reason not to do something that could affect the safety of the boat.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Dog,

While I agree for "MOST" of us, your example is great as to what anchor, chain and rode. Reality here now, the OP has a 22' 1800 lbs trailer sailor. Does the OP need a 35 lbs anchor? 30' of chain? and 5/8" nylon rode? 

Same question for the rest of you, does the OP need the above mentioned combo that dog uses as an example? 

Reality is, a decent 10-15lb anchor, appropriate for mud, 15' of chain, and 3/8-1/2 3 strand nylon in a length to give him 5 or 7-1 ratio on the rode length, will hold the OP fine. We are not talking about a 30-35' boat in the 6-10k range as most of us have, but a 22' 1800 lbs boat!

Marty


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> Dog,
> 
> While I agree for "MOST" of us, your example is great as to what anchor, chain and rode. Reality here now, the OP has a 22' 1800 lbs trailer sailor. Does the OP *need *a 35 lbs anchor? 30' of chain? and 5/8" nylon rode?
> 
> ...


Marty,

I wouldn't use the word "need" (highlighted above), but yeah, why not have the 35lb w/ 30ft of chain and 5/8in rode if that is the largest anchor that the OP can reasonably deploy and recover ? I say yes, I know it is against the accepted wisdom which refers people to anchor size lookup tables for whatever size boat they have, but what downside is there to using the bigger anchor besides the fact that it is just not convenient and is less fun to deploy and recover ? What I mean is that there is no functional downside to it, it is a heavy load in a 22 foot boat, so maybe someone could argue against it for space/weight reasons, or expense, but what other reason could there be ?

I would not argue that I would use a 35lb anchor for a dinghy, but that is pushing the idea too far, the anchor would cost as much as the dinghy in some cases and it is just silly, but for a boat above 20 ft or so, why not ? Say a severe front did move through, or you did get caught in a named storm, wouldn't it be nice to be hanging off of a 35lb anchor w/ 30ft of chain on a 22 foot boat, has anyone ever come through a storm wishing they had deployed a smaller anchor ?

I could see a good argument against it if the anchor gets so big that you have to start modifying the boat with a windlass, etc, but that's not what we're talking about I don't think.


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> Perhaps you failed to read thoroughly my comments?
> 
> Yes, and the recommendation, for our boat, for a Delta, is the 10 kg. model. That's why I chose it.
> 
> ...


 I was commenting on the sequence of the logic or the decision process not the particular size anchor chosen for a particular boat. In effect the boat shoiuld pick the anchor not the strength of the crew.

Joe


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I would agree there is not downside to using a bigger anchor, BUT, with claws ranging down to 1Kg, 2.2, 5, 7.5 kgs, why have 100 lbs of anchor on a 22' boat, or 5% of the boat wt? I do not carry 5% of my 7000 lbs boat in anchor chain and rode. Do you?

Yes, I would argue the, is there space for said 35 lb anchor on this boat, same with 30' 5/16" chain, along with the 270' of 5/8 nylon rode. If it is on the bow in a locker or equal, OP's boat will be going down hill even in BIG swells and waves. 

I do not see issues with going up a size or two, but 4-5 times in this case?

I would be quite happy with a 5kg claw for the area I sail in, 15' of chain and probably 7/16 nylon if I could get that diam, or 3/8 or 1/2 depending upon breaking strength for here in Puget sound, with an 8 lb danforth with equal chain/nylon rode for back up, only because they are small, compact, can store easy etc if I had a 22' trailer sailor. 

35 lbs of anchor is a lot on a boat that small, whether you can lift/haul it in or not. I think most of us would start to consider a windlass at that wt, along with the chain dog recomends, probably in the 30-50 lbs range, some line, all of a sudden one is hauling in 150-200 lbs of stuff. some of us can do that, other not on their life. 

One needs to be both smart as to sizing, what they can handle, what environment they are in. If racing like I do, go with minimum needs for go fast mode........

There is not a right or wrong answer in the end.

marty


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> I would agree there is not downside to using a bigger anchor, BUT, with claws ranging down to 1Kg, 2.2, 5, 7.5 kgs, why have 100 lbs of anchor on a 22' boat, or 5% of the boat wt? I do not carry 5% of my 7000 lbs boat in anchor chain and rode. Do you?
> 
> Yes, I would argue the, is there space for said 35 lb anchor on this boat, same with 30' 5/16" chain, along with the 270' of 5/8 nylon rode. If it is on the bow in a locker or equal, OP's boat will be going down hill even in BIG swells and waves.
> 
> ...


Marty,

I agree with you if it starts affecting the boat, if it changes its handling, etc, or if the tackle is so big that you start having to use a windlass, etc. So maybe the 25lb anchor with only 20 ft of chain. 

Still, I think that's the thing, if it doesn't affect the boat, and you can handle it, is there any reason not to use the largest anchor that you can reasonably deal with even for a boat that is only 22ft ?


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

wind_magic said:


> I would like to argue the point.
> 
> You said the first decision should be what size anchor does the boat require, not what can be handled by captain and crew (meaning bigger, not smaller than the recommended size).
> 
> Why do you believe that ?


I'm suggesting the size of the anchor needed for a paticular boat should not be LIMITED by the strength of the crew. I'm NOT suggesting that a boat should carry the largest anchor that the crew can handle above and beyond what would be required for a particular boat. Sorry if I was not clear.

Joe


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I'm suggesting the size of the anchor needed for a paticular boat should not be LIMITED by the strength of the crew. I'm NOT suggesting that a boat should carry the largest anchor that the crew can handle above and beyond what would be required for a particular boat. Sorry if I was not clear.
> 
> Joe


Thanks for the clarification, Joe.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

While granted I am using what came with my boat, a 7.5KG bruce equal, 15' of chain, and 250' of 5/8 rode, this is the recomended size for my 29' 6500 lb boat, so far, not issues about holding in the conditions I have been in, and PO did a lot more anchoring and cruising than I. 

I for one do not have issues with using my back, or muscling things, but, why haul around 200 lbs, or 150 if 100 will work 99% of the time. and have the HEAVY boy for a back up, or to deploy when needed, ie the name storm that you on the east coast have. named storms where I am get named the during the week after. 

I guess it is called, I do not see issues with using recomended sizing, or going larger as needed in and if ones environment needs it. If I was on lake washington all the time, I would probably go down a size yet, nor current, 2-3' waves at best, along with wind. I will admit I wish I had a bit more and bigger chain, that is on the to do list. If I anchored a lot in more open conditions, a 12-15kg anchor would be on the list. ALong with a 5lb aluminum 3lbs of chain and 3/8 rode for racing, so I can dump the heavy stuff. But now we are talking different needs, wants, etc. 

I know I would not haul around a 35 lb anchor for the OPs boats. overkill, unless I knew I would be in hurricanes on a semi common basis. then, the 5kg would be easy to deploy, the 35lbr below for when the hurricane warnings were up.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I was commenting on the sequence of the logic or the decision process ...


Well, the actual decision process went more like:
What anchors work well?
Of the anchors that work well, what's my best price/type/size/weight/efficacy compromise?
Of the anchor chosen: Can I go up one "size" for "insurance?"

Whereas the PO's decision process went something like "What's the minimum size & weight anchor I _must_ have on the boat to meet the racing rules :laugher

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

LinekinBayCD said:


> I'm suggesting the size of the anchor needed for a paticular boat should not be LIMITED by the strength of the crew.


It's going to be limited by something. In our case: The ability of the crew is the limiting factor. It's only by happy coincidence that the limit of the crew permits the size anchor recommended for the boat.

But...



LinekinBayCD said:


> I'm NOT suggesting that a boat should carry the largest anchor that the crew can handle above and beyond what would be required for a particular boat.


Ah, but some here, and in articles elsewhere, will insist that manufacturers typically overstate the performance of their anchors and, if you're near the upper limit, boat-size/-weight-wise, for a particular manufacturer's anchor, you should step up one size.

_That's_ what I meant by "insurance" all along.

(I seriously would've thought my original text would've made all this clear. I guess not.)

Jim


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

Here's a vote for a rocna as primary. I have one new this year and it is absolutely the best. grabs instantly and every time. I am using the old oversized danforth as a backup and am thinking of getting a fortress or guardian as backup since it can be taken apart and stowed much more easily than the real danforth can.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Trees. I tie off to trees. 

Big ones. Hurricane proof ones. 

Bite my 18 inch draft 

Seriously though, I've had 10+ boats (over 100k pounds) hanging on my well set 25lb Danforth anchor at 8:1 scope in 10+ knots of wind, no drag, no drift. Overnight. 

If you need more than that find a tree.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The anchor should be chosen for the size and weight/windage of the boat. That said I agree with Steve Dashew and others that the manufacturers sizing guides are a joke and should be doubled for a start in most cases. For example Danforth recommends a 12 lb Hi Tensile for a boat up to 42'. If you upsize this you go to a 20lb that Danforth says is good for a 50' boat. There are times when 5 or 7 to 1 scope is not possible and this is where the heavier anchor really helps. I've also often wondered why people anchor with a lightweight anchor and keep the heavy anchor below, then have to reset if it blows up. The heavier anchor should be the first choice with the others relegated to stern anchor and backup. You sleep better. Except for racing I don't believe you should size the anchor for 99% of the circumstances. With that logic why insure the boat as it really isn't necessary 99% of the time.
Chuckles - and if the wind increases to 20 overnight?


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> It's going to be limited by something. In our case: The ability of the crew is the limiting factor. It's only by happy coincidence that the limit of the crew permits the size anchor recommended for the boat.


I'm only saying that if you happen to need an anchor larger than your crew can handle you need to figure out how to handle it, not just get a smaller lighter anchor. I was not commenting on your particular choice or whether it is the right size for your boat.



SEMIJim said:


> But...
> 
> Ah, but some here, and in articles elsewhere, will insist that manufacturers typically overstate the performance of their anchors and, if you're near the upper limit, boat-size/-weight-wise, for a particular manufacturer's anchor, you should step up one size.


I agree with that statement, particularly if you have a high windage type of boat. However I'm not saying it needs to super sized to the maximum strength of the crew. Just because in my power lifiting days when I could do a 500 lb dead lift, I wouldn't be carrying a 200-300lb anchor on a boat that only required a 45 pounder.

Joe


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Brian,

Knowing the min for local racing for my boat, probably yours too, ie 5 lbs of anchor, 3 lbs of chain, or an 8 lb anchor no chain, the manufacture min recommendation of 16 lbs is a LOT better than race minimums. 

Then some manufactures have min anchor sizing for up to 20 knots, up to 40 and up to 60 knots, my boat in a claw is 6 lbs, 16 lbs and 24 lbs for those wind speeds. Obviously heavier if one needs higher winds etc. 

To me, choosing the min per manufacture for a 40 knot wind, will cover "most" of us 99% of the time. Yes a few, will be out in the 60+ knot winds, if you think you will, obviously buy an anchor for those days. Me, sailing here in the salish sea as you do, there is usually a quite anchor ground around somewhere close.

marty


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*I have already replied to the OP and suggested a much smaller anchor (see my post, #14 in this thread)*. My comment, which you're referring to is a general example of what an anchor and rode would cost for a typical cruising boat...and how ridiculous it is for people to not have decent ground tackle aboard their boat. I've seen $250,000 boats that didn't have $1000 worth of ground tackle on them... and I've seen them drag down on people with smaller boats who could be bothered to spend money on decent ground tackle.



blt2ski said:


> Dog,
> 
> While I agree for "MOST" of us, your example is great as to what anchor, chain and rode. Reality here now, the OP has a 22' 1800 lbs trailer sailor. Does the OP need a 35 lbs anchor? 30' of chain? and 5/8" nylon rode?
> 
> ...


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

SEMIJim said:


> Btw: I would've insisted on going up one size in the Delta, because I like insurance, but The Admiral _must_ be able to lift it, and, for a variety of reasons, she's limited to about 20 lbs. So, with the 22 lb. Delta + chain, she'll already be well over her limit. A Rocna or Manson Surpreme, even at the same weight, would've been out-of-the-question, because of the weight of the mud they can drag up from the bottom.


I agree with Maine Sail. You might also want to consider the fact that he's done his OWN anchor testing. See: Reply #33 Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important

I also hear a lot about 'the wife" handling the anchor. What are you guys? Think the female can[t steer a boat that's not going anywhere? C'mon, why not do the grunt work yourselves? 

I've "graduated" from Danforths to Bruce to Rocna. If you want an anchor that works, then get one that'll rip you off the bow when it sets. Anything else is a toy. Just because it worked for 500 years doesn't mean there's not something better out there.

*The false economy I read about saving $$ on anchors is simply breathtaking. How much is your bloody whole BOAT worth to you?!?*


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

*Just saying*

We bought our boat from a guy who was 89 years old. Owned the boat since new 1978. He said his 45# CQR anchor never ever dragged the 36' boat we bought. Not once. He regularly anchor at the Channel islands, cal. He had all 3/8 chain.
He also had a danforth stern anchor. 
We kept the same system, upgrading the bow rollers and windlass etc and a Lewmar claw anchor.
Looking for an original Bruce 44# one also.
"The C.Q.R.™ anchor is guaranteed for life against breakage* and has Lloyd's Approval** as a High Holding Power anchor."
If it works, Just saying.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm reluctant to even post this because of the aggravation it may cause, but the reading is very educational once I filter out the condescending attitudes, so here goes:

One thing that almost none of you have addressed is the risk of an anchor holding too well and getting stuck. For a boat as small as mine, with virtually no room on deck for any extra hardware (see pic below), manually pulling up anchor up is very important, which makes crew limitations critical. Aside from your own muscle, the only mechanical assistance you have is the pitching of your boat in the waves.

Curiously, although this topic has barely been addressed by you, it is one of the first things that local sailors have mentioned to me. One guy told me, "don't pay any more than you are willing to abandon." I mentioned to him about the suggestion to pay $1000 for ground tackle, and he just rolled his eyes and said, if it gets stuck, that $1000 cost will immediately become $2000. Or you'll learn your lesson and spend less on your next ground tackle." Another guy told me he knows a couple local guys who get their Danforths to set in local mud with NO CHAIN! He does not do that himself, but he knows guys who do.

Thanks to you, I am now very aware that a fluke anchor may have an issue in tidal currents and shifting winds because of the need to re-set every time these things shift. But in terms of getting the thing to release, this may be an advantage. And for the limited (if any) use that my anchor will get, I am willing to endure that inconvenience.

In my specific situation, I don't plan to anchor at all at this time. I just do daysailing. If it's hot and stagnant like today, I'm going home. If it's a nice breeze, I'm sailing until I run out of time, then heading back to the dock. At most I might want a lunch hook, which my 8 lb. fluke anchor may already be sufficient for. But I'd like something else bigger in case.

If I decide to get into cruising, then I'll look at a bigger/better anchor. But if I get into cruising, I will have a lot of other stuff to upgrade also. The anchor will just be one of many things.

My main point is that different people have different needs. We are not all the same as that guy who drifted into you. Even if we happen to have the same ground tackle that he had, we have different boats, different bottoms, different depths, different currents, and different objectives of anchoring (if we even plan to anchor at all).

And don't get the idea that it's just about money. I want an anchor that fits into my anchor locker. I measured it, and it will not quite fit a Delta of the required size, nor any of the other plow anchors being suggested up here.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you expect to have a problem retrieving your anchor attach a light line with a fender to the other end from the rode. There is no reason to lose an anchor in any circumstances excepting an emergency when you have to cut and run. Even then a small buoy or fender will let you return to recover it. I have never lost an anchor in over 40 years but I did bend a Danforth once.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

At my friend's suggestion, I now carry an empty plastic milk bottle for marking an abandoned anchor. I still have not acquired a new anchor yet - all the advice has confused me enough that I'm still thinking out my options.


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## M275sailer (Aug 29, 2008)

I have 6800 lbs of boat with a 22 lb bruce and plan to go bigger. Last week I had a night anchored in 20 kts and it is not a good feeling second guessing your gear all alone on a dark misrable night. 

The only other boat around, a much larger Catalina 40 with a full cockpit enclosure was dragging at 3 in the morning. I had my own worries even if my anchor was holding. I haven't figured out how to get my boat to stop sailing around at anchor either and it's a good thing I don't have any canvas covers to cause a lot of extra windage. I also wondered how heavy all my gear on board is and how much my family of 5 would have added to the weight if they were there etc etc. I said to myself right there and then that I am crazy to be out here without a measly extra 10 or 15 lbs of anchor and have the added security. It's amazeing how fast small factors can compound and you find yourself in a "situation". 

It's the same up here on Georgian Bay, there aren't too many soft landings if you end up on a lee shore.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Rhythm,

While its true you may get by with what you have as far as an anchor consider also your anchor is a security mechanism also in case of mechanical failure. There have been times when the engine died where throwing down the hook to buy some time to assess and fix the problem requires a good anchor properly sized for your boat. The ancor should not just be considered for cruising.

Even though I have a super power holding anchor (Rocna). It still breaks free when you use the boats engine properly cleating as you motor past the anchor point,

Utilizing the fender...i also carry a trip line when anchoring in rock areas I have only lost an anchor once...in Greys Inn Creek in 3 knots of wind...when 20 year old chain parted 2 years ago. I have since reolaced with BBB chain .

Dave


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Rhythm,
> 
> While its true you may get by with what you have as far as an anchor consider also your anchor is a security mechanism also in case of mechanical failure. There have been times when the engine died where throwing down the hook to buy some time to assess and fix the problem requires a good anchor properly sized for your boat. The ancor should not just be considered for cruising.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said. And I realize that I failed to consider using the motor as mechanical assistance to release the anchor.

But everything I am hearing from local sailors, textbooks, and product reviews says that fluke anchors tend to set very well in mud. I am aware that if you're moving fast a fluke might kite, so I will need to check that out for myself in some emergency drills. Maybe at that point I will see the light and go with a plow. And if I start sailing in a different area I would want to consider different anchors. But for mud bottoms, the disdain that I see for fluke anchors here is unique vs. what I have seen elsewhere. And I have to think that a part of it is geographical, with some other people sailing over different bottoms. Except, perhaps, for you - it looks like you might be an a muddy area. It would be helpful if more people identified what types of bottoms their comments reference.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

No matter how good you are at properly setting a Danforth anchor, when the tide changes or the wind clocks, possibly after picking up a bit, the anchor has to reset itself. A Danforth fails at this as many know. Even in mud if your being blown downwind at any speed.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Rythm,

I primarily sail on the Chesapeake with a 3 week trip to New England every summer. We encounter lots of mud, with occasional grassy bottoms here. Our trip north lets us sample mud (on the DelawAre at Reedy Island), sand (Cape may and Barnegat) mud and sand with occasional Rocks ( Long Island Sound),

We also carry a Delta but the Rocna seems to work in any conditions we have encountered so far.,

Dave


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One other point about a fluke-type anchor. If something jams the flukes, it can make it impossible for the anchor to reset. I've had that happen when hard mud, an errant tin can, etc., have gotten caught in the flukes and didn't allow them to "flip" after the anchor pulled out. This made it impossible for the anchor to reset again, since the flukes were pointed UP, rather than down.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> It would be helpful if more people identified what types of bottoms their comments reference.


I've used the Danforth on Abracadabra (I think it's 15-20 lbs. I need to weigh that thing some day) in a muddy/weedy bottom and found it did not set reliably. I've used the little baby Danforth on our little stink-boat on soft sand bottoms and experienced likewise.

Then there's this, to which I referred several pages back: SOFT MUD BOTTOM ANCH0R TEST, where neither the Fortress nor a Delta faired well.

Jim


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SEMIJim said:


> ...Then there's this, to which I referred several pages back: SOFT MUD BOTTOM ANCH0R TEST, where neither the Fortress nor a Delta faired well...


Everyone's advice is interesting and helpful.

But I do have a hard time giving credence to any review that has such a biased _a priori_ objective. I don't care how many surveyors they paid to witness the test, an anchor manufacturer was conducting the test and paying the witness, and the "test" had the clear objective of proving one "winner" over all others. There are a lot of much less biased tests available out there.


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## ulferlingsson (Jun 10, 2010)

I have a Viking aluminum fluke anchor size 20 for sale. It works every time but of course you have to follow it to the bottom and set it yourself. $1 OBO


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Anchors used to come by themselves but I guess now they should come with detailed instructions on use, maybe with pictures.


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## SanDiegoChip (Jun 12, 2007)

*Dancing if for fun*



M275sailer said:


> I haven't figured out how to get my boat to stop sailing around at anchor either and it's a good thing I don't have any canvas covers to cause a lot of extra windage.


We used to dance around a lot when we had our Catalina 30 at anchor. Try and anchor sail and a kedge. We made and anchor sail from an old jib (from dumpster) and used a mushroom dingy anchor for a kedge. Work great in helping to stop the dancing. Dancing if for fun not whipping around the anchorage!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I believe that he means a kellet or anchor sentinel, not a kedge. A kedge is just another name for an anchor, often used for moving the boat when it is grounded-by kedging off...



SanDiegoChip said:


> We used to dance around a lot when we had our Catalina 30 at anchor. Try and anchor sail and a kedge. We made and anchor sail from an old jib (from dumpster) and used a mushroom dingy anchor for a kedge. Work great in helping to stop the dancing. Dancing if for fun not whipping around the anchorage!


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## M275sailer (Aug 29, 2008)

SanDiegoChip said:


> We used to dance around a lot when we had our Catalina 30 at anchor. Try and anchor sail and a kedge. We made and anchor sail from an old jib (from dumpster) and used a mushroom dingy anchor for a kedge. Work great in helping to stop the dancing. Dancing if for fun not whipping around the anchorage!


I will have to get something worked out because I plan on going from a slip to a mooring as well. I am thinking the way it sails around could cause problems. I have never moored a boat before?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If you're on a mooring, the boat horsing around is not as critical as it is at anchor...but adding a riding sail and/or using a bridle should help.


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## M275sailer (Aug 29, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> If you're on a mooring, the boat horsing around is not as critical as it is at anchor...but adding a riding sail and/or using a bridle should help.


I did try a bridle at anchor and it was worse. I will look into a sail. Any ideas? Like I mentioned before I am replaceing my ground tackle and looking at my requirements as well(sorry if hyjacking) but what are the thoughts on 6000lb break strength 1/2 inch Anchorline for my 6800lb boat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd think that 1/2" line is a bit undersized for your boat. My boat is about the same LOA and a bit lighter, but has more windage, and I'm using 5/8" nylon for my rode.



M275sailer said:


> I did try a bridle at anchor and it was worse. I will look into a sail. Any ideas? Like I mentioned before I am replaceing my ground tackle and looking at my requirements as well(sorry if hyjacking) but what are the thoughts on 6000lb break strength 1/2 inch Anchorline for my 6800lb boat?


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