# I just want to sail away..



## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

For awhile....

Tell me guys, I know this isn't exactly an original idea that I am having here. But I would like to know the reality of it. 

Here I am a "Land Lubber", Been on a power boat a lot and even out on the peuget sound a few times in a big boat for fishing. But NEVER a S.V. 

What i want to do:

Learn to sail, I live in Colorado and I plan to take the A.S.A Basic keel Boat course and Coastal cruising course to get my liscence and be able to sail up to a 30' on my own. There is a school in denver that offers the two courses at a really good price. 

Next,, Sve a Ton of $$ over the next 2 years.. i'm thinking 15k at min.. 

Next buy a Sail boat 25 to 28 feet somewhere on the east coast or in the gulf for $5000 or less.. (I have found A LOT of good deals in this price range). Hopefully it will be fully outfitted at this price as many I hav found are.

I figure my first trip acrossed the gulf stream I will be fully loaded with enough food to see me through 3 months so i'm not waisting money in the islands,, then top off again on the way back through to the keys..


Next,, Sail away! I am looking at 1-2 years depending on how it all goes. I figure with 10k in the bank I can live pretty good as a ocean hobo for awhile. I want to explore the caribian, and Florida keys. If I get really really good at sailing I will venture to Cazumel and maybe even Jamaica before making my way back to Florida or other mainland area to work again for a year before hopefully heading for europe for a year or two..

How can I do this? I have no wife, no kids, No debt and a good job that pays well enough that I can put away desent amounts each month. Atleast $400 a month right now..

I am also in the mean time looking for that perfect girl to travel with me, but i'm not getting my hopes up on that one..

So, what do you think? Am I missing anything obvious? Does it sound like i'm covering my bases pretty well? I do understand that A boat is nothing more than a hole in the water that can only be filled with money.... But I am hoping I choose well and get a decent one that doesn't need much more than some elbow grease and TLC...


Any suggestions? Also, where are some hot spots for novice hobo boaters in the caribian that might want to just hang out on there boat and not really be bothered? I've heard Conception island is Great for this. But so far, i've just been reading and google earthing seeing if I see anything I like from afar. 

Thanks, guys. 

Sincerely 
Guy not trying to dround...


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Oh, List of skills,,

To improve your faith in my abilities to captain a boat, I can,,

operate a Snowcat (I groomed for 8 years at beaver creek ski resort).
I can Drive a semi truck with a plow on snowy mountain roads. ( Did that for 2 years,

I can ride any motorcycle I get my hands on and i'm a pretty darn good driver with a clean record.

Think I can captain a small S.V??

I think what scares me the most is getting caught out in a storm and dying because I was to dumb to give myself the right orders!!


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## bacampbe (Mar 17, 2009)

pistonbully said:


> Learn to sail, I live in Colorado and I plan to take the A.S.A Basic keel Boat course and Coastal cruising course to get my liscence and be able to sail up to a 30' on my own. There is a school in denver that offers the two courses at a really good price.


One point to consider is that you don't really need a "license" to sail non-commercially. Particularly to sail your own boat. And certainly not a license by boat size. I think most states require you to take some sort of boater safety course, but that's pretty trivial compared to ASA 101. The ASA or USSailing certificate series can look good on a sailing resume for chartering, but it isn't even required for that. (Outside of certain parts of Europe that want an International Competency Certificate)

That's not to say you shouldn't take the course; the ASA class is a good start.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Ya might not like sailing as its a bit of work to keep a boat moving 24/7 on the trips you cant do in a day 

So i would look into a bit more before taking the full plunge 

If tends to cost money to enter a lot of your dream places and various states will want a piece of the pie if you stay over time X 

The further you go away from the coast the more important safety equipment becomes and its not cheep


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Two books to get

Cost Conscious Cruiser by the Pardeys

Shrimpy by Shane Acton

Two different approaches to sailing on a small budget and more importantly both written by people who 'Walked the walk'.

As to costing you money to enter other than the Bahamas [$150 if <35feet]the entry taxes and crusing permits in the Caribbean are reasonable with the French Islands leading the way with ZERO cost to enter and cruise. [ Mind you in St Barts it is an arm and a leg to anchor!]


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

I don't mind the work.. aside from it giving me something to do to keep my mind off the fact i'm in the ocean. It's good exercise.Plus, I don't plan to be underway all the time. I will likely find a nice secluded cove and chill for a few weeks. hen move on to the next.

I plan to take the courses 101 & 103 mainly because I believe in training and learning as much as I can before taking on a new task. 

I understand that many areas require entry fees and docking fees. As for entry I will budget for those as I can. As for docking, it's a last resort I plan to almost always anchor out, and dinghy in.

Before even casting off the plan is to top the boat off with enough food and maybe enough water for three months. I figure that's about 6 or 7 hundred $$ And that's being generous. that plus extra fueling in the bahamas and maybe a few visits ashore should be around 1K.. 

This means if I can go every 3 months for a thousand dollars it would cost me 4k just to feed and fuel myself at seas. I would make sure I have a few thousand in the bank otherwise for any unforeseen repairs..

Maybe i'm missing something but I think that part is all pretty doable.

I think the hard parts will be Learning to sail, Saving the money, picking a good boat and dealing with the riggers of being at sea on a daily basis.


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

Hey, no reason not to go ahead.
I,ve had the boat for 6 years and need to get her to the Med some time soon.
Still its fun learning and I,m ready when the gold watch starts ticking.
Hope it works out.
Safe sailing


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

pistonbully said:


> I can ride any motorcycle I get my hands on and i'm a pretty darn good driver with a clean record.
> 
> Think I can captain a small S.V??
> 
> I think what scares me the most is getting caught out in a storm and dying because I was to dumb to give myself the right orders!!


Frankly, riding motorcycle in across the country is much more dangerous than sailing across the Pond. At least sailing you can control how safe you want to be. Riding a bike, you life depends on the drivers around you.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Piston,

Based on your sailing experience level you might want to
crew on a boat going to the areas you mentioned,
sort of a "trial run". It may be possible that being
confined to small quarters and basically camping on
a boat may not turn out to be what you thought it
would be?

Dabnis


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

Piston,

A friend of mine mentioned that there was as 21 foot sail boat for sale, just up the street. 21 feet! That was enormous! Imagine owning a 21 foot boat! My, my! 

So, a few years later I actually DID get into sailing and bought a 25 footer. It's amazing how small 25 feet is. Aim for 30. You can pick up a decent condition Catalina 30 for about 15K. Good boats.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that your cost estimates seem too low. I'm not in a position to correct you as I've never done what you plan to do. However, I have looked at boat prices and I have never seen a boat that meets your purpose and that you could buy in sail away condition ("drive off the lot") for $5,000. For a 28-30' boat, I imagine you are over your total budget just to get the boat in a seaworthy (and 2-year-live-aboard worthy) condition.

Here is a blog where a person has just completed a similar goal ( The Bahamas - Costs ) and posted the costs. I encourage you to read the whole blog... and for what it's worth, I saw that boat is presently for sale. Also, keep in mind this is a small 26' which is much less in size & cost than a 30'.

I encourage you to set and reach your goals so this is not meant to discourage you but to make sure you aren't foiled by incorrect estimates.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

DO IT!! I recently divorced, my house is paid for and I decided to jump in and go for it. I am renting my house out and bought a 36` Morgan O/I. I`m bobing around the shipyard right now on the hard, but they are letting me live aboard while I make my own repairs. I`m just like every other dreamer except I finally decided to do it. I dont miss my 2000 square foot house ever...so far. I`m like a little kid in the boat, I go to sleep every night with a sh*t eating grin on my face. Best move I ever made and I`m not even under way yet.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

You can find the deal you are looking for in New Orleans. Some of the katrina boats are still around and can be had cheap! Of course buyer beware have it checked by a surveyor to get a realistic repair estamate. This boat is 20 feet away from me and looks decent in person. I tried to post a link but i dont have a high enough post count. look at craigs list in New Orleans for a `37 Hunter.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok, So I have been all over Craigs list for the last two weeks.. I have found more boats for 5k than I can shake a stick at.And plenty of them are in very nice shape. I'm not even looking into anything newer than the 70's a few are 1980's boats I am pretty set on 28' or less. 

Yeah, I know some need a lot of work,,,, but some need next to nothing and just have owners that are ready to move on to something else.. 

I'm not looking for the hottest s.v on the market. I'm just trying to get around.. and there are plenty of boats that I feel will do just that.. There for. I feel like i'm pretty right on course with budget.. 

As for New orleans,,, Yeah I've looked around there but the idea of buying a boat out of that region just scares me ... I've been looking from Texas to Maryland and It's pretty much a matter of taking my pick and pulling the trigger on it.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Logistics. 3 months water? And food? On a sub 30 footer? You any good at living on a gallon a day? Achievable? Yes. Easy? Not so much. Consider options. Water maker. Expensive. More port calls. Possibly costly. A cruiser with big tankage. A bonus if you pick the right one, but maybe not the least costly choice. You will want fresh food more than you might imagine once you're between somewhere and nowhere and pounding down another can of something, or reconstituted freeze-dried stuff (needs water). You're gonna wanna pull in somewhere. 
Agreed, your financial targets are low. In this economic climate, you may get a great deal, but when figured with more honest methods, inflation is already around 10%, and likely to go higher, so your supplies will cost more. Definitely plan on more money.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

seabreeze_97 said:


> Logistics. 3 months water? And food? On a sub 30 footer? You any good at living on a gallon a day? Achievable? Yes. Easy? Not so much. Consider options. Water maker. Expensive. More port calls. Possibly costly. A cruiser with big tankage. A bonus if you pick the right one, but maybe not the least costly choice. You will want fresh food more than you might imagine once you're between somewhere and nowhere and pounding down another can of something, or reconstituted freeze-dried stuff (needs water). You're gonna wanna pull in somewhere.
> Agreed, your financial targets are low. In this economic climate, you may get a great deal, but when figured with more honest methods, inflation is already around 10%, and likely to go higher, so your supplies will cost more. Definitely plan on more money.


I feel you on that Seabreeze.. i too have thought that the water may be a problem.. But As you said i hope to find a boat with a big water tank.. Also as i understand it, their are all kinds of fresh water wells on a lot of the islands.. i just gotta find them..

As for food. You are right again, everyonce in awhile i'm going to just want to go ashore and let some one make me a wonderful dinner and i'm sure from time to time I will. But I also see myself eating a lot of fresh caught fish.

I.D.K who knows maybe by the time I get ready to leave food will be so inflated that nobody can afford to eat!!

the lagistics really are a problem. But i think I can get passed them. Besides I honestly think that if I gotta look at more than 20k in savings/budget then I just can't do it,, after all i'm not rich. But i do think that some people are getting the impression that I plan to go out there and be the normal cash weilding tourist.. this is not the case.. I plan to be as frugal as I possibly can.. Plus, I do plan on looking for work when I can find it ( Even if I still have money in the bank) i'm not one to be un prepaired.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

The fact is, i'm no longer happy doing what I'm doing where i'm doing it and i need to make a change in my life. I need more in my life. I feel like I need to live, becasue I feel like I haven't been living in a long time. 

I can also say this.. I grew up a poor white boy in a small no name town in oregon. I never had money and many would say i never had a chance.. 

But I had a dream, I wanted to send myself off to live in one of the best ski resorts in america amongst the richest people in the world.. well Aspen was to far so I am here in wonderful Vail Co. And I have been for 15 years.. So I hope that shows my determination. every one said I'd be back in a month... I've never looked back.

Maybe I go to sea for a year and travel. learn something about my self and grow as a person. After that I can always find some sort of work to see myself by. i've never had a hard time finding a job when I start looking. Granted, i've never had to look for a job in the current state of our country.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

pistonbully said:


> Ok, So I have been all over Craigs list for the last two weeks.. I have found more boats for 5k than I can shake a stick at.And plenty of them are in very nice shape. <snip>
> 
> Yeah, I know some need a lot of work,,,, but some need next to nothing and just have owners that are ready to move on to something else..


I wish I could find a $5k ocean going, 28-30' boat that needs next to nothing in terms of cost to make her seaworthy. I'm serious. If you find some, please post the links here as I'm interested. If it isn't in need of costly work, it wouldn't be selling inexpensively.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

JordanH said:


> I wish I could find a $5k ocean going, 28-30' boat that needs next to nothing in terms of cost to make her seaworthy. I'm serious. If you find some, please post the links here as I'm interested. If it isn't in need of costly work, it wouldn't be selling inexpensively.


I didn't say that I found any i would cross the atlantic in right out of the dock,, but if you look you will find them..

How bout this one?
MacGregor 26 Sailboat
Or
complete blue water sailboat 24 ft ready to go!
Or
SeaFarer 29 ft. Sailboat, 1974
or
25' US Yacht Sailboat - ready to sail

or

Sailboat Alberg 30

They really are all over the place.. i'm not looking for a lexus here...


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Well, you said you wanted a boat that was "fully outfitted" at $5,000. I don't think any of the above could be purchased and made ready - fully outfitted - for $5k. Those are the type of boats to which I thought you might be referring; These boats will take more than just effort to be ready for a 1-2 year voyage.

At any rate, my original post was not meant to argue purchase prices but to get you to think about the real costs of owning the boat over that time period. Speak to a boat broker and ask what would need to be done to those boats to make them ready and then add up the costs. Sails? Engine? Standing rigging? Running rigging? Electronics? What about structural work... rotten deck core, ugh, that was the killer in my search edging out engine replacement.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

You have the right attitude. Just keep your options open and expect contingencies to come up short. Suppose your fresh water gets contaminated and there's no island nearby. Did you have some water in a separate tank, maybe filled from the rain a couple days earlier? Do you have a small water maker for crunch times? Sometimes the fish aren't biting, other times, all you catch are reef fish that are possibly carrying ciguatera, and you can't eat them. Not trying to shoot you down. Just saying plan on it all costing more. The higher initial outlay can come in handy as you have more built-in options as opposed to being at the mercy of the moment when not prepared. An example of this thinking is when Katrina hit. Never had flooding, but we got water then. I had two boxes of small batteries in different locations. One got wet, one stayed dry. All my flashlights were fluorescent or LED, so one box was plenty. My generator took a bath, but the 12v batteries were up high. The inverter sufficed til I got the gennie dried out. Needed to recharge the batteries, car was washed out, but my truck was elsewhere and served as a short term gennie. People were sitting all day in line for a max limit of 7 gallons of gas, I had 50 gallons in reserve, then after a week, drove right past the all-day lines, went 30 miles down the road and waited a whole 15 minutes for another 50 gallons. The lessons? Prepare as best you can. Have overlapping contingencies whenever possible. Don't sit in line like everyone else. Work the problem and think. You'll be OK.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

The best boat you listed for your purposes, the Alberg 30 has this as its ad: 
"Lost slip, must sell by mid-April, $5k or best offer. Alberg 30. 1968. Good condition. 7 sails. Hauled in 2009, bottom painted."

What about the engine and the condition of the sails, standing and running rigging? Soft decks? It will at least need a new bottom paint job.

Good luck and welcome PistonBully.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

JordanH said:


> Well, you said you wanted a boat that was "fully outfitted" at $5,000. I don't think any of the above could be purchased and made ready - fully outfitted - for $5k. Those are the type of boats to which I thought you might be referring; These boats will take more than just effort to be ready for a 1-2 year voyage.
> 
> At any rate, my original post was not meant to argue purchase prices but to get you to think about the real costs of owning the boat over that time period. Speak to a boat broker and ask what would need to be done to those boats to make them ready and then add up the costs. Sails? Engine? Standing rigging? Running rigging? Electronics? What about structural work... rotten deck core, ugh, that was the killer in my search edging out engine replacement.


You are right, none of those boats are fully outfitted and ready to go but I can say they are a good start.Plus I just quickly pulled a few examples off craigs list. I know that the cost over time will prble be greater than the boat it's self.. But i suppose that just depends how much work yo want to put into it. plus, i refuse to believe that every single boat out there at this price range is going to be a P.O.S. I believe a lot of people are just broke and need the money. When I do buy a boat you can bet I will research the heck out of them and find the best one for me.

I know you were not trying to be arguementative, And I didn't mean to sound defensive. it jsut seems that alot of folks on and off line seem to think that I'm trying to buy a showboat or something.. I'm not.

And with what I've been hearing from everyone about my busget and my plan my two year is looking more like 1 year....


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

OK, So I've gotta admit.. Some of your replies have left me a little discouraged.. I know part of it is because I am hearing all the things that I prbly don;t want to hear.. But hey " I asked you right"...

Anyway, thank you for your honesty guys. reality checks are needed for dreamers..

So What about a revised plan? Say I save 10 to 15k.... Prbly more like 10k if I decided to do it summer 2012.. Anyway, What if I saved this money and made my 5k boat purchase and headed off to the east coast to find part time work and do some part time cruising? Is this more of a reality? Work and sail? 

the fact is i don't have any debt so If I'm living on the boat and sailing on the weekends I will not only gain much needed practice before taming larger seas but I can make more money working somewhere... I hate to settle like this but sometimes you just have to accept the reality laid out before you..

I don;t mind moving my life from Colorado to the east coast. As long as I have my boat to live on and a cheap slip I should do fine..

I noticed in one of the threads that somone said they are kind of hurting for educated/trained workers in the keys and Virgin islands? god, i would love to go to the Virgin islands for a year,, Work a little cruise a little... 

I don't know guys i'm just trying to be real about this. I'm not happy here anymore. I know i'm a jerk because I live at the base of a world class ski resort and i'm sick of it,, but hey what can I say i'm not easy to please.I need something more in my life and this really sounds appealing to me.. 

When I think of what else I could be doing it all sounds so boring to me.. last thing i want to do is go backword and move back home..


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

Don't be discouraged. A touch of level-headedness helps bring those dreams to reality - otherwise, they are just dreams. You need to look at this with good judgement; financials, seamanship, practicality etc. and then plan accordingly.

There are various ways to achieve your dreams. I understand you aren't wanting to live in luxury and I didn't suggest how much money you'd need to spend to reach the minimum - others here are more qualified to do that than myself. And it is technically possible to do it on a little budget. This documentary has been posted several times ( Hold Fast - Travel Movies on Vimeo ) and shows what you can do with nothing. THEY did it. I wouldn't recommend that you follow in their footsteps; there is just so much in that video that I would consider unsafe. However, they weren't discouraged by cost.

There are many people that dream about just sailing away. With no debt and a portable skillset, your chances of doing that are much higher than the regular joe.

My advice would be to save even harder than you are doing now. Live as cheaply as you can and put more money into the boat; A safer, more comfortable small boat will be better than a cheap boat any day. You might "save longer" as well, spend more time learning to sale while you save - Feed your craving can stave off that need to leave and will better prepare you for your own boat. Start by sailing on other boats so that you know what you like and don't like before you buy; Buying the wrong boat with the wrong gear is an expensive lesson.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

On your budget there are things you need to do without. Forget about the people who advise you to have a watermaker, make sure you have an awing that doubles as a rain catcher.

Don't skimp on basic repair tools you need a drill screws epoxy resin sail tape and sail thread plus a needle and palm. A simple sewing machine [Think cast iron Singer copy ] willl be a good investment and is one of the things that can earn you money from fellow cruisers. I am paying someone to restitch my dodger just now.

An 8 inch scraper mounted on a pole will let you scrape your bottom in an hour or less saving on haulouts and anti fouling.

Learn to love rice and beans. Lentils are your friend.

30 footer here advertised for $4.9k Pearson Wanderer sailboat 30'

She looks like she might do.

The Pardy's mantra is "go small, go simple, go now" .

It has gotten many off the docks and into the adventure.

If you only make it to the Bahamas for a year it will be a good year!


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

How about getting the boat, and living on her while you continue to work. Get to know the boat, and get her ready. I went with a handheld gps, and nothing else the first time. Tons of reading from others experiences, and soon you will be able to go. I have been there, and done it. Your plan is very doable. How many here who have given advice have actually sailed away? BEST WISHES in sailing over the horizon........*i2f*


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Your revised plan sounds pretty good to me - living aboard while learning the boat, improving the systems, some time working and some sailing ... Although we had a little more budget to start (there were two of us, after all) that's exactly what we did and it worked fantastically well for us. By the time we left for the Bahamas we'd upgraded/reworked every boat system, knew the boat inside out & how she sailed, had a very wonderful 9-month cruise. Currently relaxing back in the Chesapeake and planning to head out again this autumn. You CAN do this too! Looking forward to seeing you on the water.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

As a Scuba Instructor, I can't tell you how many starry eyed folks come into the shop with "The Dream"....hate the office, life sux, want to become an Instructor, move to the Caribbean and live life barefoot in the sand. The reality of it and the possibility of it actually happening results in disappointment 99% of the time.

This though, has a much higher possibility of success. If I were you, the first thing to do is move. Can't make this happen where you are. Pick a place out on the coast where you can get a good job and slip rentals are cheap. Good luck with that, finding a cheap marina is gonna be tough, but they are there.

Once there and working, find your boat, in your budget, and move in. Spend the next year or two living on the boat, fixing her up, sailing her and getting to know her. At the same time, learn as much as you possibly can from multiple sources about the cruising life, what it takes and how to do it.

Maybe...in a couple years....you'll be leaving your marina behind as you sail away on an adventure you'll never forget!


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

I share your dream. Just make sure you temper it with reality!
No disrespect meant, but if you're that new to sailing (as am I) how do you KNOW you're getting a "good deal" on a $5000 sailboat?

Another comment that peaked my eyebrow was the "ton of money" and then "15k". Purchase, maintenance, emergency fund, provisions, docking fees....I would't consider 15k a "ton of money", when spread out over such a period of time.

If you can pull it off, sounds like fun. Just _caveat emptor_ when looking for a bargain boat to sail blue waters in! Check out some of the other threads here about those who encountered gales.....new rigging, sails, etc can set you back 5k easily.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

dnf777 said it very well.

For more information about costs, I just came across this link: Costs Of Buying And Cruising On A Boat
You can take from the links what you may and use it to provide even more accurate numbers for your plan.

This thread is running in parallel with yours, http://www.sailnet.com/forums/theres-place/71466-cruising.html , and although his budget is not in the same league as yours, the ideas are the same. There are claims of $1000+/- per month for a cruising couple and others claim $1,000-$1,200 (excluding a tonne of costs that must be accounted for.) It'd be nice to say those could be cut in half since you're single, but that's generally not the case (i.e. dockage isn't halved because you're solo instead of a couple)

p.s. imagine2frolic, your implication that our advice is not valid because we have not left everything to sail-away on a shoestring is not logical or rational. I have also never jumped off a tall building or played in traffic but my advice to not do so is still valid. Many of us that have not sailed away, have purchased boats and know the costs of cruising. I'm surprised that you were able to leave everything and sail away for 2 years on a $15k budget - please share your secrets, 'cause I want to go too!


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks guys,, All good advice! 

I am currently looking into attaining work with the Florida keys Sheriffs dept! That would be a great way to transfer out there! (Not that i'm already one) But I have always had an interest.

I think i'm going to take all this advice and maybe heave to and lay the hull while I save and ponder. .

Thanks again guys! 

P.S, Know why I want to leave so bad? Because it's May 1st and IT"S STILL SNOWING HERE IN CO!!


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## GulfTriton (Apr 15, 2011)

Just because someone sailed a boat for an hour a month on nice days does not make it ready to cruise. Just for reference this is a list and prices of things I absolutely had to do to the last “Ready to Sail” $5000 boat I purchased just so I could take it 800 miles from Texas to Florida. The items with * means I possibly could have got by without them but I was a whole lot better off with them.
Repaint Bottom $400*
Replace Thru hulls & Seacocks $750*
New Anchor & Rode $250*
New Batteries $300*
Holding Tank and Plumbing $400
Re-bed Deck Fittings $100
Replace Settee Cushions $400*
New Running Rigging $700
New Standing Rigging $1800
Motor Tune-up $200
Haulout Fees $350
That is a total of $5650 in necessary repairs. Plus I still need new sails, a vhf, and all sorts of other things. I did all of the work myself except for sewing cushion covers.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

GulfTriton said:


> Just because someone sailed a boat for an hour a month on nice days does not make it ready to cruise. Just for reference this is a list and prices of things I absolutely had to do to the last "Ready to Sail" $5000 boat I purchased just so I could take it 800 miles from Texas to Florida. The items with * means I possibly could have got by without them but I was a whole lot better off with them.
> Repaint Bottom $400*
> Replace Thru hulls & Seacocks $750*
> New Anchor & Rode $250*
> ...


Wow,, That's some perspective..


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## SailingWebGuy (May 5, 2010)

pistonbully said:


> P.S, Know why I want to leave so bad? Because it's May 1st and IT"S STILL SNOWING HERE IN CO!!


Haha! Get the hell out of there asap!


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

I did.

Just what your thiking about. W/ a few additions.

It was Dec. of 2006 I'd had it w/ fuel prices,work land life etc.

Bought a $2000 boat in tampa,Fl. cleared out 35 yard bags of trash in the ,dumpsters at the Gulfport.FL. Municipal Marina sailed/motored to Glades Boatyard near Okeechobee,FL spent 8 days and $600 to do a bottom job,cutlass bearing ,oil change a few other things. Launched ,loaded the wife,3yr.old girl,and 4 dogs. 
Hung around the boat yard working on boats until I decided to go (2-3 monts) . sailed up and down the east coast through the chesey all the way to Ontario lake and back to florida 3 times and just got off the boat last November,2010. Did it all inclusive on less than $15000.00
I'm currently gearing up to go for a couple more years. 
Now, I'm more familiar and have a better grasp of what to expect.
This time will be even BETTER.

I think I need to write a book on it or make a websight, I'm missing out as I have met (in my travels) other sailors who didn't know even how to anchor and now are giving classes,seminars and charging people to listen to their stories and experiences !?!?!!!!!
My advice to you is. If you see it on craigs list for $100 you can probably find one for $50 ,if your in the right place.
Consider this. 
Skip the sailing classes. Keep reading (library-free) Keep hording $$$ ($15000.00 good, $20,000.00-better).
When you got the cash, start watching the used boat market in an area like the chesapeake.
GO to the place where the cheap boats are. bring cash and tent.
find part time job,so you don't waste yur cash.
Start looking at those "Deals" Decide on what you like to fix (engine,rigging,hull) pick the one that's broken that you can stand to fix. For me I chose a boat w/ crappy sails and rigging and a good hull and engine,I don't mind fxing rigging and sails.
Then , fix boat,launch boat . As this is taking shape you'll be learning/and meeting other sailors and you'll catch on or find out you hate it!
If your still into it, cast off down the coast/ICW toward Florida.you'll learn everyday ! by the time you get to florida you'll know if you want to go further.

I found I want to go MUCH further. Maybe I'll see you along the way-


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Now THIS is a damn good thread.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Lol,,, it is pretty informative.. i am learning A LOT along the way..


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

joethecobbler said:


> I did.
> 
> Just what your thiking about. W/ a few additions.
> 
> ...


That's damn inspiring!! So you sailed for nearly 4 years on 15k? Maybe I didn't quite understand you right.. if so that's AWESOME!! Especially when you add in family and pets.

Did you not know how to sail before you started?
What size boat? Gotta pic of it, I'd love to see her!


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Come on!!

SeaFarer 29 ft. Sailboat, 1974


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

I sailed b-4 but not as much as I thought I had. but you go easy learn the weather patterns and watch the "heard" if everybody is hunkering down, maybeit's a good time to do the same.
A 32' sailboat. 
Pictures? - 100's of em , never enough. 
Yea $15000.00 for 3-4 years. stopped when work was offerred here and there. Mostly didn't really want to work.Could have worked more and longer , but WHY ? thats working,not cruising. I thought you were askin' bout' cruisin'

There is always work,most places.
If you get "on the Ground" so to speak. immerse yourself in the sailing/cruising enviroment, you'll quckly find your comfort level,or decide it's not yuor thing. 
But, you can't know if your in Colorado. You must be where it is being done or at least being pursued.
Alot of "starters" get all hung up on choosing the boat and trying to figure out what they need. 
Just get one that floats and sails/motors you'll figure out what you want and need rather soon ! 
Just don't jump at the first solution and be patient to the point of procrastination when parting w/greenbacks. If you can take a little extra time to look around you'll find all manner of solutions that work for YOU.
Me, I like Ice w/ my rum.cold milk.a hard tender.Solar/wind.blue crab.oysters,flat seas,quite achorages,free dighy docks,solar showers,uninhabited islands,boatyard dumpsters,gatherings w/other cruisers,sunsets,... .. . . . . .


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Hey guys, Thanks for all the wonderful comments and info.. 

Q, if i were to make my way out east and do as I've been talking about. When would be the best time of year (After Winter) to head out and have the best chances at good sailing..

I was thinking I may want to look into july? When's the best Gulf stream crossing season?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

pistonbully said:


> Hey guys, Thanks for all the wonderful comments and info..
> 
> Q, if i were to make my way out east and do as I've been talking about. When would be the best time of year (After Winter) to head out and have the best chances at good sailing..
> 
> I was thinking I may want to look into july? When's the best Gulf stream crossing season?


Errrr you might want to look into a thing called the "HURRICANE SEASON"

Yes you often do get good light wind sailing in the Bahamas during the summer months but you need to be very aware of the possibilities of a hurricane strike during that time. There are few good hurricane holes in the Bahamas and they will usually be stuffed full of local boats.

The traditional Bahamas cruising season is November/December to May. Crossing the Gulf stream has been covered many times on this forum and is not a trivial exercise in a small sailboat. Basically wait down in Miami for a weather window and be prepared to go when it appears. I have waited 3 weeks anchored off the Marine stadium in December looking for a break in the NE winds.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

JordanH said:


> dnf777 said it very well.
> 
> For more information about costs, I just came across this link: Costs Of Buying And Cruising On A Boat
> You can take from the links what you may and use it to provide even more accurate numbers for your plan.
> ...


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

HEY ! what do you mean "a notch above?" - just kidding, no offense taken.

to the OP-
I would thnk you would want to be on the east coast (or in my example-chesapeake) as early in the spring/end of winter as possible , to get an early start on aquiring boat,repairs,learning curve,as well as enjoying the chesapake in the spring/summer b-4 heading south to enjoy the warmth.
Of course if you arrived in the fall you might be able to take advantage of the "end of the season" purchasing opportunities.But, with the current economic condition, I don't think it will matter much as their seems to be plenty of people willing to divest themselves of their "toys".

Thinking about the chesapeake makes me yern for blue-crab ,oysters,and more sailing,....MMMmmmmmm......


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

The Chesapeake must be amazing,, Cuz a lot of you guys mention it..


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

largest estuary in the world.

Yea, I guess amazing is a good start.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Some folks claim Chesapeake Bay is the "Sailing Capitol Of The World." If it's not, then it's a damned close second. The bay provides you with 10,000 square miles of relatively protected water, lots of room to sail for days on end, and more places to explore than any estuary in the world. I've been boating on the bay since age 5, which puts the time at 65 years and counting. There are still places that I haven't explored, but with luck I'll eventually see them all. If the year-round temperature here was 75 degrees I could probably spend at least twice as much time sailing and exploring than I do now. This year, if my health and the weather holds up, I hope to spend 102 days on the bay and nearby coastal waters. And, if my plans work out, 2012 will be even better because I'll be sailing to the Florida Keys and Bahamas for the winter months.

If you're looking for a good, inexpensive boat, this part of the world is where I would be shopping. I published an article in Ira Black's Noreaster Magazine a few years ago about derelict boats. During my research on the article information I discovered that in Maryland that number is approximately 10,000, of which a significant percentage is sailboats. At the small marina where I'm currently at there were five sailboats to 30 feet that had been abandoned. There was also at least a dozen power boats. Most of the power boats have since been cut up with chain saws and hauled to the landfill, but nearly all the sail boats are still there. The marina is relatively small and only has about 125 slips. Some other marina owners I talked with claim to have dozens of derelicts, some of which are in fairly good shape and just need a little TLC to get them back in action.

Good luck,

Gary


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> If you're looking for a good, inexpensive boat, this part of the world is where I would be shopping. I published an article in Ira Black's Noreaster Magazine a few years ago about derelict boats. During my research on the article information I discovered that in Maryland that number is approximately 10,000, of which a significant percentage is sailboats. At the small marina where I'm currently at there were five sailboats to 30 feet that had been abandoned. There was also at least a dozen power boats. Most of the power boats have since been cut up with chain saws and hauled to the landfill, but nearly all the sail boats are still there. The marina is relatively small and only has about 125 slips. Some other marina owners I talked with claim to have dozens of derelicts, some of which are in fairly good shape and just need a little TLC to get them back in action.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Gary


Wow that's pretty cool info.. Thanks !


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Next buy a Sail boat 25 to 28 feet somewhere on the east coast or in the gulf for $5000 or less.. "

Take a look online, here and in other forums, at the many many other threads asking the same question. Asked and answered, many times.


"(I have found A LOT of good deals in this price range). "
If you'd never driven a used car, or sailed an airplane, or owned a mule, do you really think you could find a bargain on one without knowing how to use it, how the different models performed, or how they could all up and die on you? Again, asked and answered many times in many forums. Take a look around.

By all means go for it--but if you're not going to do the research, you'd be better off throwing the money on the tables in Vegas, where the odds of winning might actually be higher.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a friend that has sailed from the west coast to the islands around New Zealand, and then on to Bora Bora. He has hopped through about a dozen islands and is going to keep going for the foreseen time. He and I are in frequent touch (a few emails a week), and he has told me that he's been able to keep up his adventure for around $250 a month.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

The irony of your post is that I recently sold my 1978 27-Catalina sloop for $5,000 on Craig's List. The boat is in excellent condition, powered with a 30-HP Universal Atomic-4 gasoline engine, has 2 main sails (1 brand new), 2-yr-old Alado roller furling system and new jib, two additional hank-on jibs, Lowrance GPS/Plotter/Depth Finder, new holding tank, new freshwater tank, great alcohol stove, and lots, lots more. The Catalina 27 is a very fast boat, it only draws 4-feet, 10-inches and sailed like a dream. The main drawback, at least for me, was it was too small to be a live-a-board. When I purchased the boat it had been sitting for 5 years, it was filthy, the inside was covered with mildew, and everything smelled nasty. It took three months of elbow grease to get everything ship-shape and functional. Then I put another $4,000 into the boat with updates. By mid summer I had folks at the marina offering to buy the boat for prices up to $7,000. I used the boat for five years, sailed down to Virginia Beach and back a couple times, and still was able to get my asking price on Craig's List. The guy who purchased the boat sailed the boat to Baltimore a few days ago, a trip of just over 60 miles, made the voyage in just over 10 hours, and said he loved every minute of the trip.

I replaced the 27 Catalina with a Morgan 33 Out Island. It's a much slower boat, but on a good day I've been told that 6 knots is not out of the question. I sincerely hope that's the case. The 33 Morgan O.I. is a great live-a-board, very comfortable and ironically, powered with the same engine--a Universal Atomic-4 gasoline engine.

Now, I've been told the Catalina 27 and 30 are not suitable for ocean voyages, mainly because they usually have a fin keel. I cannot confirm this personally, but if I were in your shoes I would check this out before taking the plunge. Additionally, I would add to your arsenal of books Storm Tactics Handbook by Lin Pardy & Larry Pardy. It's a great book that clearly outlines how to survive at sea in the nastiest storms by heaving to. Both of these guys have survived the worst storms anyone can imagine and they did it in a 26-foot sailboat.

One final thought: If you run across that young gal that loves to sail, ask if she has a twin sister with the outlook on sailing. 

Good Luck,

Gary


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> "Next buy a Sail boat 25 to 28 feet somewhere on the east coast or in the gulf for $5000 or less.. "
> 
> Take a look online, here and in other forums, at the many many other threads asking the same question. Asked and answered, many times.
> 
> ...


"_If you'd never driven a used car, or sailed an airplane, or owned a mule, do you really think you could find a bargain on one without knowing how to use it"_ i'm pretty sure I explained in my very first posting that my first plan of attack is to GO TO SCHOOL and learn how to sail..

I didn't ask how to find a boat.. Just boating and travel questions in general.. I'm pretty sure i've demonstrated the ability to look for a boat.

"Not going to do the research" ? I thought that's part of what this thread / site was about?

I understand that you may be frustraited because this very topic I have undoubtedly repeated has come up again.. But that's not a reason to get snippy.. if you don't like the subject please feel free not to chime in..

I saw other posts as well on this very same subject. But not ever thread answers every question,,, Sorry that i wanted my own thread..........


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Tavelineasy,,, 

that's too bad that I jsut missed that deal! Yeah one thing I hav been learning a lot about is keels and the best kind for me.. I think I am staying away from Swin keels, and retractables,, also maybe fins keels and shallower keels.. I kind of feel like I may want to look for a boat with a larger keel for stability cuz i'm such a nooby..


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

I own a Catalina 27, and where its a great boat, it is not a blue water boat. I do not think it would do well with water over the deck. You would need to put in some considerable effort to make the topside water tight. Not to mention all the topside fittings would need to be strengthened. I would think you want to be looking at a full keeled boat no?


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah, I mean I would lo e to be able to flip the keel up out of the eau and go ashore or get into tbe real shallow spots. But from what I've learned so far. Where I want to go and with my over all lack of open water skill a ful keel would be more stable.


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

Don't let anyone tell you you can't do this. There is a thread on SailNet where a kid who made some money in the dot com era fly's from SF to Florida. Picks out a crap boat, makes an attempt at refitting the boat sort of. Then sails the Bahama's with two girls for a year or two. That effort had disaster written all over it yet all 3 survived near as I could tell.

Is your plan what I would do? No, does that mean you shouldn't do it? Not at all. If you wanted my advice I would say look for a few things in a boat.

1. Small diesel inboard

2. Full keel

3. plenty of storage


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks,

Really though? Inboard? Everything i've been reading has been telling me outboard for ease of maintanence and more storage inside the hull..I hear that pulling a inboard for rebuild/replace could be costly.

Why do you go with inboard? Diesel makes sence though,, good mileage and prbly last forever.

I agree on the extra storage and full keel. for sure things i'm starting to look for.


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

Open ocean, foul weather its easy to get into swells where your outboard motor will come out of the water. That in conjunction with enough wind where you are bare pole leads to a situation where you would be hard pressed to maintain steerage. Thus the inboard suggestion. Diesel because it is a more "marine" type fuel thus available in more locations.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Ahhh.. I got yea..yeah I for sure want to maintain control. ..


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If you are going to cruise in open water, you will need to make a checklist of safety gear and decide how much of it you require. Here are just some things off the top of my head:

Life raft
EPIRB
Equipped ditch bag (spare radios, etc)
Storm sail inventory
Drogue/sea anchor
Spare anchor and rode

These alone can run more than your entire budget if you bought new. Good reconditioned stuff can be had in some cases. 

Then start thinking about a dinghy to get to shore, charts, electronic navigation. Finally, if you are going to sail for any length of time on a 30 - 40 year old boat, I would expect at least one major malfunction requiring a big $$ repair along the way, ie. engine, standing rigging, structural,, etc.

Best of luck on the dream. I liked the idea of moving to the coast, buying, living aboard and taking it a step at a time.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

All good things to think about for sure.. And I have been thinking aobut it starting with a multi pouched PFD with a mobile waterproof VHF,Beacon, maybe a power bar, water pouch, spare vhf/ beacon batteies, etc..

Yeah, i am more and more thinking that's how it will go.. I have a buddy that has a buddy that has a small set of docks on the Chesepeke.. So maybe I can get the buddy deal on a slip for 3-4 months while I make improvements and sail around,,maybe work part time doing what ever and trade a little work at the boat dock to maybe earn a haul out so I can scrape/paint.

I have also been looking into all the navigational and dinghy situatoin. It seems that the more you spend on the boat the less of that stuff you have to buy.. But the less you spend the more of it you have to buy. Soooo, i still gotta work that out.. But i'm kind of an E-bay hero so I have found lots of ongoing deals and such.. A nice zodiac style dinghy too for $200 that would suit me just fine..

I know that if I went nutts I could blow another 10k on a 5k boat if I wanted to. But the thing is,, I don't want to. So I will likely do what I have to and move on to the next thing.. but I do plan things like taking spare parts probly including a engine gasket rebuild kit if needed..

Hell, i bet the first time I stock the boat with provisions I spend 7 or 8 hundred..But I think of it a lot like camping, once you got all your essentials it's pretty easy to not spend money and just hang out and be free..



Minnewaska said:


> If you are going to cruise in open water, you will need to make a checklist of safety gear and decide how much of it you require. Here are just some things off the top of my head:
> 
> Life raft
> EPIRB
> ...


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

tomperanteau said:


> I have a friend that has sailed from the west coast to the islands around New Zealand, and then on to Bora Bora. He has hopped through about a dozen islands and is going to keep going for the foreseen time. He and I are in frequent touch (a few emails a week), and he has told me that he's been able to keep up his adventure for around $250 a month.


That's awesome!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

pistonbully said:


> ......It seems that the more you spend on the boat the less of that stuff you have to buy.......


That is exactly right. Installed equipment depreciates enormously the moment it is screwed down to the boat. Find one recently equipped and you get a great deal. However, very old equip may end being replaced anyway.



> Don't know if I will ever use a drogue,, sounds dangerous if you are a noob at it?


Just the opposite. If you are going to cruise offshore in open water, it would be extremely dangerous not to have one. If you aren't comfortable using a drogue or sea anchor, you can't imagine how uncomfortable you will be alone in an offshore storm. You should be proficient at using storm sails as well.

Move aboard and do some coastal cruising until this all makes sense. It will.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Minnewaska;726364
Just the opposite. If you are going to cruise offshore in open water said:


> Ok Good to know,,
> 
> I hadn't really looked into it to much more after I read a few comments about them. I heard if you didn't deploy the drouge right it can sink you? But I have heard that they are frickin sweet for saving your hide.
> 
> As for a sea anchor ,this is the first i've heard of those.. I shall now set off to google for more data....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

pistonbully said:


> .....As for a sea anchor ,this is the first i've heard of those.. I shall now set off to google for more data....


Google the Series Drogue as well. There was a US Coast Guard study done on them vs. sea anchor. Can't imagine how a series drogue could sink you. The only draw back is getting them back aboard.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Pistonbully

There are thousands of us out here in the Caribbean without life rafts, storm sails, storm drogues, epirbs, radar, DSC VHF, SSB, colour plotters ETC ETC.

You are not going down into the southern ocean, just pick your weather windows carefully and enjoy comfortable safe sailing. Make sure you have some way of getting accurate forecasts even if it is asking another boat with access to give you the skinny on the winds. 


BTW I do have some but not all of the above.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

TQA said:


> Pistonbully
> 
> There are thousands of us out here in the Caribbean without life rafts, storm sails, storm drogues, epirbs, radar, DSC VHF, SSB, colour plotters ETC ETC.
> 
> ...


I feel yeah, it only has to be as difficult as I make it. I figure at the Veeeery least I will have a bad ass GPS/Chart plotter and my Laptop at port to work out the winds and such.

Thanks..


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

My advice for you:

Rather than look for a boat right now, start learning about sailing. Get a good beginners book and study it to get a foundation. Then get a really good book, like The Annapolis Book of Seamanship and study that, watch the DVD's from Netflix....etc....get Don Casey's book The Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual....the whole first section is on doing your own inspections so you can disqualify a boat before spending money on a survey. You only want to drop $$$ on a survey to "confirm" the boat you want is a good one. Nigel Calder's books, Cruising Handbook and Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual should also be added.

While you're developing your knowledge, MOVE! Get your butt out to the coast and get a job. By the time you get out there and settled in (rent an apartment) you should have started to develop a really good knowledge base and you can start boat shopping again. By the time you actually get in a position to buy your boat and move aboard, everything you've discussed or "decided on" in this thread is likely to be changed, because you will have studied, researched and learned. Plus, you'll have the knowledge to make your boat search more productive.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

TQA said:


> On your budget there are things you need to do without. Forget about the people who advise you to have a watermaker, make sure you have an awing that doubles as a rain catcher.
> 
> Don't skimp on basic repair tools you need a drill screws epoxy resin sail tape and sail thread plus a needle and palm. A simple sewing machine [Think cast iron Singer copy ] willl be a good investment and is one of the things that can earn you money from fellow cruisers. I am paying someone to restitch my dodger just now.
> 
> ...


I like the way you think!!


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

JoeDiver said:


> My advice for you:
> 
> Rather than look for a boat right now, start learning about sailing. Get a good beginners book and study it to get a foundation. Then get a really good book, like The Annapolis Book of Seamanship and study that, watch the DVD's from Netflix....etc....get Don Casey's book The Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual....the whole first section is on doing your own inspections so you can disqualify a boat before spending money on a survey. You only want to drop $$$ on a survey to "confirm" the boat you want is a good one. Nigel Calder's books, Cruising Handbook and Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual should also be added.


Sounds like a synopsis of what the wife and I did several years ago. The Annapolis Book of Seamanship by John Rousmaniere was s great start. He's on Netflix and you can stream one or two of his videos. We also have Don Casey's book on surveying an old boat. We used both, along with several others, to learn as much of the basics as we could before we bought. Then we bought small, learned to sail, and moved up.

Research, research, research. Visit forums and ask a lot of "dumb" questions. Better to look "dumb" here than to look dumb while being towed back to your marina so you can find out how much you need to spend to get her back out on the water! Worked for us, and buy, did we have our dumb moments, but at least none to bad or dangerous.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

G1000 said:


> Believe me you can't imagine hitting hurricane in a middle of the night.
> Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions
> HANDLING STORMS AT SEA: The 5 Secrets of Heavy Weather Sailing


Two more great books! I have them but forgot to mention them.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Dude, go for it!. I'd start moving now, to MD, buy something 30-ft or larger, move in, sail the Bay, learn, work on her, and then live the dream. 

I just wish I bought my boat 20 years ago.

Oh, I, too, wanted to be a ski bum when I got out of the military back in 1977, actually ski patroled a season, then recreationally, until things got so darned expensive and crowded. Got bored with waiting in line for 20 minutes, 5-10 minute ride to the top, then 2.5 minutes to the bottom.  

Then, I became a slave and worked, and still work, from paycheck to paycheck, this time with a 23-footer sailboat that I've spent thousands on, after the initial purchase. Getting ready to enjoy the inland sailing season on a very nicely upgraded boat. Just wish I was younger. I'm sure enjoying the hell out of sailing, and it scares the crap out of me too, half the time. Some mighty ugly winds on the Columbia River at times. 

But, I'm learning and am fortunate to have befriended two live aboard folks, who both work at the local Chandlery, dock close to my boat, who love to sail, lots!!!!, one on a Catalina 27 tall rig, and the other a 34-foot Columbia (very sweet boat that's been to Hawaii twice).

Best of Luck!!!!! You've found a great place here to get your research done. Listen to these folks. They know their stuff. Oh, you'll want to add the latest edition of Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship to your library. A very knowledgable fellow who used to frequent this place consistently recommended The Complete Sailor, by David Seidman. Get it.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

"_then recreationally, until things got so darned expensive and crowded. Got bored with waiting in line for 20 minutes, 5-10 minute ride to the top, then 2.5 minutes to the bottom_" Exactly!!

Thanks for all the book suggestions.. I will be starting a list tonight and start looking into them.. Some I will do PDFs of.

Yeah I would love to leave right now. But it's just not possible. In this day and age one needs to have plenty to fall back on..

I want to have some loot in the bank before I go anywhere. I doubt the economy will have bounced back so much by this time next year that I can't find what I'm looking for..

I too look forward to inward waterway sailing seasons too. i think that's when I will get the most work.. Then head off somewhere really really far away for awhile >.<


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

@pistonbully From your posts I read in here, NOW is the time to do what you are wanting to do. Don't wait because one day you might have a wife and kids that just won't be able to go with you. Later on you may also end up with something else anchoring you from your dreams. You are free now, do it now. Get more detail and move forward with it, make the dream a reality now while you can. Hint: You are on the right track, use the internet!  "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Do it Do it  Pistonbully ! ....Im in your dust trail lol


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## CaptFoolhardy (Sep 5, 2009)

pistonbully said:


> I know that if I went nutts I could blow another 10k on a 5k boat if I wanted to. But the thing is,, I don't want to. So I will likely do what I have to and move on to the next thing.. but I do plan things like taking spare parts probly including a engine gasket rebuild kit if needed..


If you're spending 5k on a 28'-30' sailboat I'd say you could easily spend another 10k WITHOUT going nuts just to make her seaworthy. It depends on the boat. I say this because in general people who own nice boats don't sell them for cheap unless they need a bunch of work, and when they do they don't usually let on as to how much work is needed. That's what surveyors are for. I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just unlikely. I'm not trying to discourage you, on the contrary, I whole heartedly encourage you to go ahead with your plan. I'm just trying to help you ground your dream in reality.



JoeDiver said:


> While you're developing your knowledge, MOVE! Get your butt out to the coast and get a job. By the time you get out there and settled in (rent an apartment) you should have started to develop a really good knowledge base and you can start boat shopping again. By the time you actually get in a position to buy your boat and move aboard, everything you've discussed or "decided on" in this thread is likely to be changed, because you will have studied, researched and learned. Plus, you'll have the knowledge to make your boat search more productive.


I agree with Joe here. In order to find a boat that fits your budget and your needs and doesn't need a ton of work you're going to have to look at a LOT of boats, and by 'look' I don't mean look at ads on Craigslist; find them that way but then go look at them. You're not going to be able to look at very many boats living in a Colorado ski town. I would suggest the Chesapeake area or somewhere in South Florida for the highest density of boats for sale within a few hours drive.

Get Don Casey's Inspecting the Aging Sailboat. It will help you figure out how much work a boat is going to need.

Two more Internet resources for finding boats for sale:
Yachtworld
Sailboat Listings
and of course there's always e-bay.

Oh, and one other thing you wrote in an earlier post:


pistonbully said:


> Also as i understand it, their are all kinds of fresh water wells on a lot of the islands.. i just gotta find them..


...and then you gotta pay the guy whose well that is for the privilege of filling up your tanks.

-Bob


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

pistonbully said:


> The fact is, i'm no longer happy doing what I'm doing where i'm doing it and i need to make a change in my life. I need more in my life. I feel like I need to live, becasue I feel like I haven't been living in a long time.
> 
> I can also say this.. I grew up a poor white boy in a small no name town in oregon. I never had money and many would say i never had a chance..
> 
> ...


Look you feel you need a change and some more in your life. After 15 years work you plan on saving 15k at 100 pw. Maybe you have some of this already. You want a 5k boat say 26' and plan to do the caribbean and later Europe. You would also like a good woman to accompany you though think that might be difficult to acquire. True. Not many women would want to live on a 26' boat with a novice and survive on lentils and the hopes of catching a fish.
Considering your start in life you could have done worse. However with all due respect you started maybe a bit behind the field. That's okay a lot do and do well. I can think of several Prime Ministers in this country.
I suggest you think for a time about how life or specifically your ideas might have been different with a supportive environment which encouraged you in education, vocational training and loving relationships. 
Then imagine being 70 odd and looking back. What things in your life would you value and be happy with.
My reason for suggesting this is to help clarify your longterm goals.
The temptation is when you are cold and dissatisfied to go for a quick radical fix. Warmth tropical islands, fish, hula girls. The reality on a small boat may be very different. Overwhelming heat, cramped uncomfortable quarters, lack of money and therefore no hula girls.
At the end you have some memories, and maybe a few thousand. Few people can afford a year or two out at age 30 or so, less so without a trade to fall back on particularly in an ongoing recession or general drop in living standards.
My advice would be to become a plumber. No chinese competition and when you need one, you need one and will pay. Take some time out if you wish or learn to sail as crew on someone else's boat, once you have learned enough skills to be able to be of any use ie stand watch. There are plenty of better off people who need some crew.
Build up some capital and invest in your own skills. Don't dissipate what liitle you may have some time in the future on a depreciating and expensive "asset."
You may in the future decide that your greatest satisfaction came from providing a family with what you did not have. Maybe, maybe not, your choice. I am just trying to prompt a wider and longer perspective than the I want it now one.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks for the words of wisdom Chris, and I feel you on all these wonderful points..

But the fact still remains that i'm not happy.. And I see something that can make me happy. I see a lot of contradiction going on in these latest posts. And I understand the different views..

But this is how I see it..

In this life I was given nothing, A mom that hated being a mom and wanted nothing to do with me there for leaving me to defend for myself and a father who didn't show up till I was 16 and then was taken from me at 18.. My entire family except my little sister is completely useless to me and has no part of my life..

IN that,, I have always done the very best for myself and never let myself down.I have always been a dreamer and I have always seen these dreams through.. Case in point two years ago I decided I wanted to build my own chopper. I have always loved motorcycles but I never new jack about working on them I had never even removed a wheel let alone changed the tire... And yet two years later I have this (Built from a completely stock 1981 kawasaki motorcycle) Darn thing hadn't even ran in 25 years!!


So Have no doubt I will see this dream through to fruition and I will succeed. For the one belief that I hold fast to is that no one in my life is so close that I can't be far away. The one person who may be being my sister can come visit when ever she likes.

I believe that it is my mission in my life to propel my self as far forward as I possible can and to reach the very limits of my own abilities.. Until I have done this there will be no family for me,, no kids no wife and no one getting close enough to say "You can't" because asa soon as they say that ,,,, I'm Gone.....

as for going right now and looking at boats and getting started right now? Nah,,, it just doesn't compute. Go out to the east coast with very little savings and very little knowledge? I believe then I might just have a failure on my hands..

Yes, it may be hard to save say 10k in one year.. But I have No debt, no kids, no anything to side track my savings except for me.. I have to know what I want and thy bidding shall be done!


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm going to contradict a little about what has been stated above. You can purchase a $5,000 boat that doesn't need $10,000 in repairs and upgrades to make it seaworthy. In today's depressed economy it's a buyers market. You would be amazed at what you can find out there for $5,999 to $10,000, especially in south Florida and Chesapeake Bay.

Much of what you will have to spend will depend upon your ability to fix things yourself. If you're one of those individuals that has a fair degree of common sense, and some electro-mechanical experience, you'll find that sailboats are fairly easy to work on. And, you can find nearly all the used parts you need to fix them online and in many of the boat yards. For example, I know a guy that purchased a nearly new boom that fit his 36 Catalina perfectly for $50. It was on a junker at a boat yard. The boat yard was happy to get the $50 and there were also happy because that was something they could get rid of that they didn't have to advertise to do so.

I do agree, however, that you will have to wander through the boat yards, talk to the boat yard and marina owners, and, shop online as well. I spent nearly a month driving from Baltimore south along the east coast, then over to Louisiana looking at Morgan 33 Out Islands. Most of them were found on line, but a few leads were sent to me by individuals on various forums that knew I was in the market for that particular boat. I ended up driving nearly 5,000 miles, and ironically, found the boat I was looking for just 90 miles from home in Rock Hall. In many instances, the boats I found on the trip south had been sold just a couple days or weeks prior to my arrival. And, of course, some were just pieces of junk that were way overpriced for the shape they were in.

If and when you find the boat you are looking for, you definitely should have it surveyed by a reputable marine surveyor. This is really important. One of the first boats I looked at looked very, very good. It was in Baltimore's Inner Harbor, it had a nearly new 56-HP diesel engine, 36 feet long, narrow beam though, new sails, and the finish looked as shiny as a brand-new penny. When I ran a hydro-meter over the foredeck I quickly discovered that the core was completely rotted out. Additionally, there was water seepage in all the exterior decks. The guy was only asking $12,000 for the boat, which would have been a great deal, but the fiberglass and recoring work would have cost an additional $20,000. A complete, marine survey is crucial when it comes to buying a used boat.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## SailingWebGuy (May 5, 2010)

Do it man! A year ago I bought a 30' boat for $4300 with plans on sailing south. I've been completely refitting everything on the boat. I'll be heading south this fall.

You definitely need to climb around on some potential boats. When I was shopping for mine, I was amazed at how much difference 1' in length or width makes in regards to a comfortable living space.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

pistonbully said:


> Case in point two years ago I decided I wanted to build my own chopper. I have always loved motorcycles but I never new jack about working on them I had never even removed a wheel let alone changed the tire... And yet two years later I have this (Built from a completely stock 1981 kawasaki motorcycle) Darn thing hadn't even ran in 25 years!!
> 
> ( see pretty picture of bike above )
> 
> So Have no doubt I will see this dream through to fruition and I will succeed.


Dude your cred just went up a lot, nothing on a sailboat is any more mechanically complex than that bike. Follow Gary's advice: get yourself out to the coast, look at a lot of boats, read up all you can. Get sailing, at least on other peoples' boats. With your skills (and ability to learn new skills!) you won't have trouble finding work.

Is it the end of the world if you spend $5k on a good coastal cruiser and spend a year or two with it (especially if you're tough enough to live aboard) before you resell it for the same price, knowing exactly what you're looking for in your next boat?


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Lol,, Thanks guys.. Yeah I do fancy myself to be a lil handy and able to learn to work on new things. I hope that you are right about boats being simple.

I will be sure to have the boat I buy inspected first. How much is that on average anyway? I suppose I can just google that one.

*Sailinggu*y,,, I knew it could be done, i'm glad you are doing it.. We will have to be sure and catch up to one another out on the blue and swap stories!

And believe you me you guys.. I will head for that water as soon as I can.. But not before I have my piggy bank filled back up.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

zedboy said:


> Is it the end of the world if you spend $5k on a good coastal cruiser and spend a year or two with it (especially if you're tough enough to live aboard) before you resell it for the same price, knowing exactly what you're looking for in your next boat?


 No, Not at all actually.. I would be just fine with such an experience. Ideally what I would like to have happen, Buy a boat on the cheap... Fix it up while afloat and leaning for a couple years.

Get my sea knowledge down pat and then head ashore to finance something bigger for around 50k and call it home.. Maybe Then I get my lil sailin ladie,, but I doubt before that.. I'm sure it will be a lot of goodbyes till then..

Lol,, However today was funny.. I mentioned my idea in front of a buddies girl and she was all about going with me.. My buddy was getting pissed too... I had to play it all down to her so it would sound boring and dangerous and that she would never want to spend that long on a little boat with some dude.. In reality I was like ,,, Hmmm..... ((I bet she looks good in a 2 piece ...))


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

pistonbully said:


> That's damn inspiring!! So you sailed for nearly 4 years on 15k? Maybe I didn't quite understand you right.. if so that's AWESOME!! Especially when you add in family and pets.
> 
> Did you not know how to sail before you started?
> What size boat? Gotta pic of it, I'd love to see her!


4 dogs on a boat of less than 100 ft seems bit challenging to me but I commend you for making it happen.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Most accredited marine surveyors charge by the foot. In my case, it was $15 a foot for my 33-footer, which translated to $495. The survey checked things I never would have thought about, and he climbed into places my aging, rotund frame could never access. When he finished, he emailed by an incredibly detailed report, one that pretty much detailed everything I would have to do to get the boat back into top condition.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

A copy of Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual: Including Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, would be a good investment. Do your own presurvey. Lots of boats will be eliminated this way. A lot of it is not rocket science. 

When you start looking seriously make up a check list and take a digital camera and photograph everything.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

TQA said:


> A copy of Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual: Including Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, would be a good investment. Do your own presurvey. Lots of boats will be eliminated this way. A lot of it is not rocket science.
> 
> When you start looking seriously make up a check list and take a digital camera and photograph everything.


Yes, yes and yes. A digital camera is a must. Use it to reach behind and under places where you can't see. I use mine all the time to inspect connections for the fresh water tank, holding tank connections and mount, areas in the engine room I can't get to, the bilge, closeups of the rigging, etc. Take a tablet and write down notes on everything. Post the pics here so we can all comment. Make sure that you check all the most costly things twice.

Our list of most important items started in this order:

Hull integrity/condition of keel bolts/paint
Engine condition/hours/maintenance history
Packing nut assembly/prop
Rigging/sails
Electrical integrity
Plumbing integrity

The most important were of course those things that would sink you - literally. Then came the things that would cost the most to repair/replace, then the other pesky items that would cost money and time. The list is much longer than this, but these were at the top.

If you've taken 200+ pictures of everything and you have a few pages of notes, then you have a start.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

That's a good start!

_Hull integrity/condition of keel bolts/paint
Engine condition/hours/maintenance history
Packing nut assembly/prop
Rigging/sails
Electrical integrity
Plumbing integrity_


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Do your self a big favor. Don't wait two years, go out and get a boat now. Lots of 1-3K boats out there in the 25-30 LOA range that are easily sailable. Just looked at a 25' 1977 Columbia today going for $1,000. Has a working diesel and all the standing rigging is in good shape. Just needs a new main and a lot of interior wood work. I tell you if it had the standing room I need I would have bought it out right and as it stands I am seriously considering buying it anyway just for the scrap value. 
What I am saying is, before you take the big plunge put your toe in the water. Bottom line, if you buy a boat that floats for under $3,000 you will always be able to get back what you paid for it in two years when your ready for big momma. 
Dont let the dream fade or the time slip. IF your serious about sailing and doing what you state then take the first step and put some cash down. I know its scary looking at cheap boats.. Rot, old wiring and rustic engines with blisters on the hull... Of course thats not all on one boat, or one your seriously considering anyway, but those are the sorts of things that will be off on those kind of boats. The good news is if your willing ti put the elbow grease in your self, and you live within 25 miles of a Home Depot, then you can get everything you need for CHEAP AND learn how to do all the work yourself. Another benefit? Since your doing the work on a run down boat it doesnt matter if its perfect. The boat is the learning experience. Just make sure it has a good hull, good rigging, and sail. Blisters, rot all that stuff is easily fixed.
Also, you really dont even NEED to fix most the stuff. If you have rot in places or your port holes leak a bit so what? Its a starter boat meant only to get you on the water and with sailing experience in your belt. Now, disclaimer: You should NOT sail in the ocean with a leaky boat. However, Rivers lakes and other water body types that are more protected are not a big deal. The things that really bug you can be your projects and every thing you do will add experience to your arsenal and possibly add value to your boat come sell time.
Sorry for the tangent but I hate to read so many "I wanna..." post about far off dreams that easily slip your grasp if you dont take hold. Carpe diem friend. Besides, you got a trove of knowledge at your finger tips with this forum to guide you along the way.
One more thing, if your really nervous about all the big boat stuff or just don't have the money right now then join a local sailing or yacht club. Fees run around $100 a month most places and there you can get experience on small dinghy boats or even gain spots crewing on larger boats. 
Read the books at night and hold fast by day. Ain't going to get salty just by eatin Morton's


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

I hear yea,, But i'm just not good with the idea of taking off from a good paying job with barely enough to get myself out there.. and completely throw my self into it.. I need a stack in the bank first.It just spells disaster to me..


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

I came across this thread on CF and thought it might help in your planning.
Cruising on $500 per Month . . . - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Lots of good discussion on what items need to be in your budget, what is critical spending and what kind of life you'll lead at $500/mo budget. There are, of course, differing opinions throughout the thread on what is necessary, what is missing etc. So lots to help you create your own particular financial plan while you save up at your current job.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

A good honest book to read is by Tom Neal All in the same boat. BEST WISHES in breaking out of what is considered the normal......*i2f*


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the book suggestions. I am getting so much info together for my plan! It's looking more and more doable, and i'm beginning to get less and less intimidated by the idea of setting sail. 

One thing I have already done in preparation is to order "the Wirie" for wifi for my boat. As soon as it gets here i'm canceling my internet. that's an extra $50 a month towards the kitty!!

My boss is funny too,, In the last two weeks he has asked me to fill in for two dif over time shifts. I've been like "Dude, you don't even have to ask just put me on the schedule !". He's loving the fact that I say yes to every opportunity to work extra.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Been following this thread like I follow all the ones on this subject--I like to see what the dreamers are dreaming. A lot of these just don't look like they're going to go anywhere. But you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders, pistonbully, and I have no doubt you'll do what you're dreaming. Good luck to you. I hope you stay on Sailnet as you work on it.


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## pistonbully (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks Arf,, I'll buy the first round on Bimini!


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