# O'Day DS or Flying Scot?



## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

Thinking of my next boat - I'm more interested in comfort and stability, taking kids out in it, than racing. Which one would you choose, all other things like condition and cost being about equal? Seems use prices and availability are about equal.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Day sailor is more stable, less fun.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I can't think of a boat I have sailed that was less funny than a flying scot. But I am not familure with the Oday. 

If you have a budget in mind you might get better suggestions by indicating what you plan to do with it, and what the budget is.


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

not to bust in but im not that far along. looking for first boat. 27 - 32 inbord engine solid deck solid hull. no suing keel, no sail furller. To sail out into the ocean and go where the wind blows me.


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

I would like an Aldin Ballard , hank on tiller, dutchman, self tailing winches, and lots of bronze.


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

Thanks everyone so far. What was not "fun" about the Scot? For me, fun is sailing around, not hiking, minimal worries about capsize, tooling around. Must be trailer-able and easy to launch and rig. I like the Bucanneer, but I'm told the Scot is more stable, the DS even more so. I don't want a keelboat.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

FJ,

The Scot does heel because of its round-ish bottom, but is unlikely to capsize. I enjoy hiking and think the Scot is a great boat, but if you want something more stable the DS is a great choice. You might also look at a Rhodes 19 centerboard model. More room thean the DS, less challenging than the Scot.

Desert Rat, you might want to start a new thread. Look at PEarson, Tartan, Sabre


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

1) Having flipped a scot a number of times I question your statement that they don't flip. It's such a common problem on the Gulf coast, where they are used for club trainers, that we even have a nickname for it. And since they can't really self rescue (they don't sink but fill up past the gunnels) our club requires a standby person ready to tow them in in the event of a capsize. 
2) The centerboard trunk (also called the knee breaker) takes up a large part of the cockpit. And is prone to, well cracking knees, and busting shins. 
3) The specialty crank is easy to loose, and can only be replaced from the manufacturer. 
4) They are overly heavy making trailering and set up difficult. 
5) The boats don't hold their value very well, due to a known issue of the fiberglassing being too thin at the shrouds. Which causes the hull to micro fracture after a few years. This causes major oil canning. 
6) The one design sails are poorly designed, which requires huge amounts of vang to be carried to get proper sail shape. This leads to regularly breaking booms (we carry three booms to every regatta). 
7) For new boats... Despite a recent reduction in price, they are still seriously overpriced when comparing them to other boats on the market. 
8) of the GYA there is minimal to no competitive racing. 

These are the primary reason that the GYA is in the process of selecting a new trainer boat for all of our club boats.


Again it depends on what you are looking for, and what you are looking to spend. But for the price of a reasonable Scot you could also find a reasonable condition Viper 640, which is massively more stable, more comfortable to sail, and has a much better design. A little smaller is the VX One which is from the same designer, but about 15 years newer. But there are no used boats on the market yet. 

The K6 has a pretty good following, but is a little more relaxed than either of those.
Club 420- is a pretty laid back boat. But with no ballast can flip pretty easily. 
Lightning - not my favorite, but has a nice following.


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## AE28 (Jun 20, 2008)

We went from our first boat, a Sunfish, to the Day Sailer II, and would highly recommend it to you.
The DSII has a self-bailer (only works whilst the boat is underway), whereas the original DS had no bailer.
Ours also had the optional mast tabernacle, which made trailering and set-up much easier. In fact, easily done singlehanded.
Good luck,
Paul


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## Letrappes (Apr 30, 2010)

Stumble seems to have no idea about flying Scots. I guess he sailed one once. I couldn't disagree with him any more. The only fleet I generally find active in most areas are the flying Scots. Good luck finding a viper 640 out there. Since the original builder abandoned them they have been straight downhill.

The Scots are an old design but are raced heavily up and down the east coast and the gulf. It was the only active travelling fleet with real numbers in the Carolinas. I never once saw more than one viper at a big multi class regatta except in south Florida and the maybe five they get for Charleston race week. If you are looking for racing, skip the viper.

I also have sailed in many different classes and the Scots are the only one where I can go to a big event and find multiple sailmakers such as North, Ullman, Madd, Schurr and Dieball all having their pros racing at the same time with the rest of us.

I will say the boat is heavy but my boat from 1973 still races even with the brand new boats. That's another problem the viper has. After three years of racing they are too soft to compete with the new boat. It's actually hilarious catching up to vipers at the windward mark when they were the fleet starting ahead of us on rolling starts.

I know the GYA is ditching the Scot but the GYA is pretty much gone anyway so who cares what they do. Read the report from the clubs on what they want and tell me if you can find a boat that fits their wants that actually has more than five built and is under their limit of $25k. Good luck.


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

Thanks everyone again for ALL input up to now, I really appreciate. Keep it coming! It's hard to argue someone's personal experience, so I value it all.

Being kinda lazy, I've gotten pretty good at not flipping even Butterfly's and Sunfishes, being quick to dump main or head up or both, so unless a larger dink is REALLY unstable, I think I can keep her on her bottom. Don't want to flip when we're out for a leisurely sail with kids or non-sailors. I typically also won't go out if winds are more than 12-15 knots. The DS has my eye, and the Rhodes 19 looks interesting but doesn't appear much larger than these others in the cockpit. Budget would be <$3000. I've found FS and DS at or under this, looks like Rhodes run a bit more. 

Gonna go out in a Sonar soon, which sounds awesome, but I think they're $5-10k used.


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## tri413 (Jul 17, 2009)

I have owned and raced a Flying Scot for over 7 years. And since I bought a fixer-upper (I'm #1 on Google "Balsa Repair"), I know quite a bit about factory support and construction.

Over the last 7 years, the scot fleet at GRSA.org (Richmond, VA) has doubled to approximately 35 boats, while the DS fleet has vanished (they don't even have a start anymore).

I spent a very long day sailing a DS in our club point to point race and quickly realized that the scot is far more comfortable. I'm pretty sure just as many DS have been capsized at our club (though in truth we avg less than 1/yr). T

The cockpit design of the DS puts a lot of weight in the stern so if you sail with more than two people, it is pretty slow in a DS. Last weekend we had our family of 5 sitting comfortably on the windward bench in our scot and hit 8.5 mph. The scot is the perfect family boat!

I've trailered my scot a few times and do not really enjoy the 20 minute setup, but I can't think of a comparable boat that is much easier. I trailer it with a minivan or station wagon and it pulls easily.

If you enjoy racing, the scot fleet is VERY competitive (several sailmakers race in NAs) but without the "arms race" that DS fleet has. The scot one-design is very restrictive and I appreciate it. One several occasions I have matched boat speed with district champs in my 50 year old #338 and the builder still races and wins with hull #1.

I could recommend a scot more strongly. If you can, try to sail both boats and see what you like better.


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

5 people sitting on one side of the Scot, that's about all I need to know, thanks! Roomy, stable , fast , that equals fun for me


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

FJ - 
If you really want to have room to take the family out, why not just get a Catalina 22? They have a 500# swing keel, and plenty of form stability. Can still be trailer launched. Probably same price as a Flying Scot. (BTW, I'm going to look at an International FJ this weekend... full circle)


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

I don't think the cockpit area of a 22' keelboat is any larger than a Scot. In fact, smaller in my experience. I've been on 25' keelboats that 4 adults were cramped on. Have fun with the IFJ


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Nor can a Catalina 22' get up on a plane.
Much more exciting in a Flying Scot.


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## mbetter (Jun 13, 2010)

I don't think many pirates sail either, really.


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