# Showers



## Stephen Phillips (Mar 21, 2006)

Is a separate shower stall worth the increased price over an older boat with a combined head and shower, for a coastal cruising couple mostly at anchor who shower daily? And, what are the best ways to control the shower spray, soap scum, mold, and cabin humidity? I am considering a Baba 30, 35, or Tayana 37 for the New England coast, and occasionally Florida for the winter.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

For controlling the moisture inside the boat when showering, the trick is Ventilate, ventilate and ventilate. 
Also if you are in an area where you have afternoon rains. Then shower under the runoffs from the awning. You may want to hang a privacy curtain if you do so...


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## negrini (Apr 2, 2008)

*Stephen, in my oppinion ....*

any arrangement would work for a couple. You mean 2 showers a day only. In my case, with a crew of 4 kids (sometimes friends) wife and myself, having a sepparated shower space is critical. We start showering kids about 2 hours before dinner, and during that, bath is fully occupied and wet. Drying right after is almost impossible, as once the last finish his shower, the first is finishing his dinner and ready for tootbrush, etc ... Even me, used to take shower right before going to bed, drying and cleaning for next morning usage is painfull at the end of a full day. Our previous boat we reserved the fwd bath for dry activites, and the aft for shower only, but having boys and girls are not that easy logistic, so anyway, we're ordering our next boat with a specific request for a separated shower space !


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

A separate shower stall is nice. The rest of the head doesn't get soaked, but it does take space. 

Our shower is built to allow 3-4 inches of water to build up in the bottom without spilling into the head. The shower drain is plumbed to a pump and the grey water is pumped overboard -- it never sees the bilge so soap and all the other nice stuff you mentioned is not an issue.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Showers? You planning on cruising incognito? In order to properly identify yourself as a cruiser, you must skip daily showers  

I've had boats without shower stalls. Not again thank you.
The shower stall should have an opening port to vent the steam & humidity. The shower sump will pump all the icky soap scum overboard. Don't want that in your bilge.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Shower in the cockpit. It's a boat not a condo.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Actually, hang a black shower bag at the transom and shower back there. Or wash in the ocean and use the black bag for the rinse


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Not a Condo?? Then why do they build these boats with two head & showers??


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I use a sun shower I keep on top of my dodger, and shower in the cockpit.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes a separate shower stall is a great thing, it was one of the parts that I used in my decision-making process. It is great to use a shower and not have to worry about cleaning the whole head compartment. Whenever I do have lady guests aboard they really do relish hot water and a showercabin - wreaks havoc on my water management, though


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

My wife wouldn't cruise with me unless the boat had a shower stall. Ours has rippled plexi panels that fold out of the way when no in use. Oh, and the 170 gallon fresh water tank was a "must have", too.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Oh man, don't get me goin' on the inadequacy of boat showers. I love my Catalina 309, but why did they waste any money on pretending to make a shower in the head? 

If I was designing or refurbing a sailboat, I'd want a custom made totally fiberglass shower with good ventilation.

My tip: Soap scum's a drag, but is easily eliminated, greatly reducing the cleaning you'll have to do. Don't use soap....use body wash. Since we quit using soap at home we have probably only 5% of the cleaning hassles we had when using soap. 

If you're unable to reasonably engineer a good shower below-decks, I concur with those that shower in the cockpit. Especially if you plumb it with hot and cold water, which could be combined with a sunshower if you wished. My cockpit's already plumbed and I plan to use it in the future...just gotta rig up a little enclosure to hang off the boom for the privacy thing. Again, body wash will eliminate the soap scum issue.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I would have went for the Irwin 46 instead of the 41 I bought just for that separate shower if it had not been on the east coast...

We have the next best thing a swim/loading step on the transom with hot and cold pressure water..Controlled by a push button hand wand to conserve water...I just put my wife in one of these and enjoy my position as rinse boy.. 

You can see the step in my avatar...Id post another pic, but I'm on a lap top and don't have those pictures with me..


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

we're patient Still..........get to it when you can......


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Shower...Arrr, I just plugs in me handy Fein Multimaster into the scrimshaw-decorated inverter and I sands away the worst of it. Arrr...ow.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Val
You should graduate to soda blasting. Much better on your gel coat er skin.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Our US 30' also has that shower in the head that has no enclosure and is too small to make one. Not worth putting the extra moisture in the boat, either. We have a hose and sprayer attached to our pressurized attachment on the transom- works great, just hang a shower curtain from the bimini for privacy. It's also convenient to rinse off after an afternoon swim or spray down the cockpit. The hose is 30', but small in diameter and coils up, so it takes up very little room. Works great for us.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

We have a shower sort-of-stall, more of a shub, in the aft cabin. The best part about it is we can have a shower in the seaway and don't fall about too much, being "contained" within the walls. Also keeps the wash water out of the rest of the head.

And soap water in the bilges is a serious no-no, it will smell real bad after a while.

Andre


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## Widowmaker (Apr 5, 2008)

Shower? Steam? Bucket of warm water, sponge and dish soap gets off most of the dirt. Gotta have a seat in the head though, the seas not flat and soap is slippery. Rinse with deck hose.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Shower Stall*

A seperate shower stall isn't a new idea. Look at the pearson 365. It is a late 70s to early 80s boat with a seperate shower stall.

If it is just a cruising couple then you may be fine with a normal head. I dry mine out once I am done drying off (I just use the towel to wipe down the surface. Not a bad set up considering my last boat didn't even have a fixed head.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*Oh My Lord!!!!*

I read these comments and just shake my head.

If it were just me, I could get by without a seperate shower stall. But I would seriously look for a boat with one. Shower in the cockpit??? Not planning on having many neigbors around (or over), eh??? (no offense, John). THat is a great way to empty out an anchorage all for yourself I guess.

As long as you (AND THE WIFE, AND THE WIFE, AND THE WIFE) are ok with it, fine. Did I mention making REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sure the wife is really ok with it. Here is how you find out:

"Hey Baby, we don't really need no stinkin' seperate shower on our tub, do we??"

If her answer is, "Ummm, no Baby... I will just stay home to shower." THEN YOU ARE MAKING THE WRONG DECISION!!!

For Pete's sakes... I don't get you guys. Is it absolute? No. But take it from someone that has had both: you will get really tired of drying off that head all the time. It gets really wet and can start molding depending on your ventilation. The positive is that it stays really clean. But sooner or later, she will be in the shower and you will have an emergency Number 2... and your days as 'happy cruisers' will come to an abrupt end. Ya can't always just jump in the water - and sitting in the cockpit on the bucket in front of God and Country won't be something you will ever want to do twice. If she is the one that has to sit on display while getting rid of last night's bad catch, you won't be on your boat another week.

Seperate showers is very close to an absolute for me. You are cruising... not tent camping for heavens sakes. Do it in some level of comfort or you won't do it for very long. Keep her comfortable and you will do it for longer than you think. If you can get one, get it. You will thank me later. And don't trust a bunch of salty sailors for their opinions. They all have (or wish they had) seperate showers... they are just trying to play it cool for the other salties. Next they will tell you they shave with a machette and wipe their butts with steel wool. Maybe they do??????

GO to the women's forum and ask THEM if a seperate shower is neccessary. I will let you post it. All you stinky, no showering, pooping in the cockpit sailors just stay out of it.

HEHEHEHE!

- CD

PS I have lived aboard and cruised and that was a critical factor in determining our next boat. Also, forget the thought of a shower every day. Ain't gonna happen. At best, you will rinse off on the transom after a dip to get the salt water off. Unless you have a whomping water supply, large water maker, generator, and large diesel capacity, everyday showers probably won't happen. Me, the wife, (and two kids... I will admit) will go through an easy 30 gallons with showers/day. That is a quick shower. We honestly were not much less than that when it was just me and Kris. That may not sound bad... but THAT IS SERIOUS WATER CONSERVATION... not long hot showers.

These are my opinions and worth what they cost... nothing. But I have been there and done that.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I've had both and see no difference.... but then again, I have a "Y" chromosome. Now that we have a seperate shower I would say that 90+ percent of female boaters that see the boat comment on the separate shower. It's their favorite part of the boat. Not one seem interested in my easy oil change system...

If you do have a combined shower/head life can be made much easier with a circular shower curtain. I got a standard 3/4" or so copper hot water pipe, bent it in a circle and screwed it to the wall up high. This circular pipe (which was attractive) made an instant, custom shower curtain track. I used one loop of velcro to hold the weight in the middle. 

This meant that all I had to do was toss the fuzzy floor mat, put up the circular curtain, shower and when the curtain and mat were put back the head was just the same, albet steamed up. No soap scum or water on the walls, no need to waterproof everything or even remove the toilet paper form the coutertop where I left it. Water went to a sump and was pumped overboard.

Medsailor


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have also found that is you have an opening port, that the solar shower bag works better then the on board shower. First, you have great hot water without thinking about it and the shower head isn't as wide as the on board shower head and is easier to control where it sprays. The opening port is also great for ventilation.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> I have also found that is you have an opening port, that the solar shower bag works better then the on board shower. First, you have great hot water without thinking about it and the shower head isn't as wide as the on board shower head and is easier to control where it sprays. The opening port is also great for ventilation.


Ok FS, I will somewhat buy that. But that is not an "on-demand" unit. It requires remembering to sit it out in the sun and hoping it is a nice, sunny day. What about the cloudy, rainy days? THe crisp, cool days? What about a nice shower at night before bed (when we always take ours).

I am very familiar with that unit. It has been around forever. We used to use it backpacking:

Ahh, there was something free about standing out and looking over the mountains, hot water running over you, showering in the buff in front of all of nature and feeling like a modern caveman.... yep. THose were the days when a man was a man. You hunt for fish with a spear, eat berries, crap off the side of a log, and kill a bear with your trusty bow and arrow so you will have some clothes to wear to the Tee-Pee gaterings.

But for some reason, it just ain't made its way on my yacht yet. I just don't see reality using that in the cockpit in front of God and Country. And I will tell you what else, my wife SURE wouldn't be doing that. I would be boating alone. I realize that you said using it down below and I am cool with that... just don't see showering in the cockpit as something that will happen with a woman.

Maybe I just need to start usings steel wool, eh???

- CD


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> Ok FS, I will somewhat buy that. But that is not an "on-demand" unit. It requires remembering to sit it out in the sun and hoping it is a nice, sunny day. What about the cloudy, rainy days? The crisp, cool days? What about a nice shower at night before bed (when we always take ours).
> 
> I am very familiar with that unit. It has been around forever. We used to use it backpacking:


On a cloudy, rainy, I either don't take one or use the shower in the head. I also burn some diesel to heat my water. That's cool, since it is a cloudy day I may also need to charge my batteries because the solar panels are not working.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I think we had the ideal head arrangement on our last boat. The private aft stateroom had an en-suite head enclosure, with the sink built into a hinged teak countertop within the stateroom - outside of the toilet/shower compartment. There is also an operable port, high pressure laminate bulkheads and a ceramic tiled floor. The space was virtually impervious to water, creating an ideal environment for a dedicated shower.

The forward head, finished out in teak, also had a hand shower and ceramic floor, but we never showered there. The combined luxury of on-demand propane hot water and a 140 gallon fresh water tank, will be hard to replace on our next boat.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Stephen Phillips said:


> Is a separate shower stall worth the increased price over an older boat with a combined head and shower, for a coastal cruising couple mostly at anchor who shower daily? And, what are the best ways to control the shower spray, soap scum, mold, and cabin humidity? I am considering a Baba 30, 35, or Tayana 37 for the New England coast, and occasionally Florida for the winter.


On smaller boats, it's hard to justify the space lost to a separate shower stall. As boats get larger, it becomes more feasible (and desirable, in my opinion). On older, narrower designs, they usually didn't show-up until approaching 40 feet. Newer, beamier designs are squeezing them into big 30+ footers.

We have a hot/cold shower in our head (not a separate stall though), and a hot/cold cockpit shower that reaches to the swim ladder. Because we only have 65 gallons fresh water tankage on our 31 footer, for longer vacation trips, we also have two sunshowers (5 and 8 gallon) that we lash on the coachroof.

We don't use the head shower very often. When we're anchored out, we hoist one of the sunshowers by a halyard over the foredeck, and use it to wash/rinse the kids quickly after their last swim before bedtime. They keep their bathing suits on for this, so don't anybody get all worried that we're exposing them. 

If it's chilly, we will shower in the head. But in hot humid weather usually my wife and I will shower in the cockpit (using the cokpit shower) after dark before bedtime. If we are sharing the anchorage or are rafted up, we keep our swimsuits on. Otherwise we don't get too particular....



Cruisingdad said:


> I just don't see reality using that in the cockpit in front of God and Country. And I will tell you what else, my wife SURE wouldn't be doing that. I would be boating alone. I realize that you said using it down below and I am cool with that... just don't see showering in the cockpit as something that will happen with a woman. - CD


Different strokes for different folks, CD. My wife is cool with it, because on a small boat we would lose too much valuable space to a separate shower stall. HOWEVER, this feature is DEFINITELY on our wish list when and if we get a larger boat. Neither of us will at all mind having it!! 

But if you get a shower stall on a boat that doesn't have tankage to support it, what's the point?


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Well on the smaller boats you take a cup of warm water, toss it into the air and stand under the water as it comes back down. Wal'lah one shower, or a start of one anyway.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> On smaller boats, it's hard to justify the space lost to a separate shower stall. As boats get larger, it becomes more feasible (and desirable, in my opinion). On older, narrower designs, they usually didn't show-up until approaching 40 feet. Newer, beamier designs are squeezing them into big 30+ footers.
> 
> We have a hot/cold shower in our head (not a separate stall though), and a hot/cold cockpit shower that reaches to the swim ladder. Because we only have 65 gallons fresh water tankage on our 31 footer, for longer vacation trips, we also have two sunshowers (5 and 8 gallon) that we lash on the coachroof.
> 
> ...


Hey John,

I think we agree on everything.

I do not think you can make it feasible on a small boat. I do not know what the breaking/seperation line is, but I would guess somewhere around 37-38 feet for a couples boat. The Panda 38 has a nice shower... but the Tayana 37 does not as I recall. Someone should feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I am going off memory.

Other than trying to get a few smiles, my point was that for a couple cruising, it is a huge plus. If you cannot afford a larger boat - you can find ways around it. But do not discount it if you can afford it.

Regarding the water... water is an issue shower or not. Pops boat has 150 gallons of water I think. We went through one of two tanks in about 2-21/2days. We did take showers. That is not that bad for three adults... regardless of what others say. We could have done away with showers, washed dishes in salt water, etc... but that is not really our thing if we can help it. The V-42 does have a seperate shower too... and taking nice hot showers in the comfort and privacy of your boat is worth a lot. But the reality is that, even with his boat, we rationed the showers and water. If we had opted to fire up the watermaker, we could have had showers every night... but that means probably running the generator, and fuel... etc.

We can take showers on our tub every night too, but we will have maybe 4-5 days of water if we do. 5 days may be pushing it. But don't forget you will also have a nice shower on those days in the marina... without having to worry about water. A seperate shower stall is also an awesome place to hang wet foul weather gear or towels, etc after a long nights watch in the rain.

- CD


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Cruisingdad said:


> I do not think you can make it feasible on a small boat. I do not know what the breaking/seperation line is, but I would guess somewhere around 37-38 feet for a couples boat.


Well..... It's feasible for us. The pilothouse gives us the cubic feet of living space to justify it, and the separate shower is one of the many things I love about my boat - for the 2 of us.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

christyleigh said:


> Well..... It's feasible for us. The pilothouse gives us the cubic feet of living space to justify it, and the separate shower is one of the many things I love about my boat - for the 2 of us.


You tell em Stan... HEHE!

- CD


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Cruisingdad said:


> A seperate shower stall is also an awesome place to hang wet foul weather gear or towels, etc after a long nights watch in the rain.


Definitely! We see that as a huge advantage. Conceivably a deflated dinghy could even be rolled up and stowed there for a longer passage where towing or davits would be inadvisable. Or folding bikes, etc. Like I said, I wouldn't want a separate one on our current boat but it's on our wish list when and if....


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> Definitely! We see that as a huge advantage. Conceivably a deflated dinghy could even be rolled up and stowed there for a longer passage where towing or davits would be inadvisable. Or folding bikes, etc. Like I said, I wouldn't want a separate one on our current boat but it's on our wish list when and if....


Not sure you could get a dink in any of the shower stalls I have been in... maybe... but if it unrolled it would never come out!!! Besides, who wants that stinky thing down below? Keep it outside with all the salty, shower in the cockpit sailors!!! HEHEH! (I am just kidding).

- CD


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Separate showers also make a great place to hang your slicks and other wet clothing while sailing during inclement weather.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Boasun said:


> Separate showers also make a great place to hang your slicks and other wet clothing while sailing during inclement weather.


And escape from the kids....

- CD


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I agree with the notion a separate shower serves double-duty. Our aft shower had an odd extension under the settee of the raised deck level of the pilothouse. The height was only about 36" off the drain equipped ceramic floor, but was pretty deep. 

Nauticat designers had installed a hanging rod in this space, which we used for hanging foulies, my wet diving gear and wetsuits. The configuration even allowed use of the shower without interference with anything stored there.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Cruisingdad said:


> And escape from the kids....


.... or each other  and staying on topic, another reason I can justify the separte shower we have use for, is by converting the forward berth (cushion is in the cellar) we had no use for, to my "den" for escape and Storage. The stereo's main speakers are in there so I can sit in the big comfortable built in chair, crank up the tunes, and 30' and 2 closed doors away, my wife can read or watch the built in TV in the aft cabin in peace  ...... and Yes, the term/compliment "Floating Condo" does not insult me in the Slightest  ..... so don't bother


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## SYMandalay (Nov 9, 2007)

The most critical part is to keep the shower water out of the bilge. Make sure it is collected and pumped overboard. And a separate shower is nice if there is a lot of wood trim to get wet in the head, but if it's all fiberglass, doesn't matter much.

I agree with showering in the cockpit or on the swim platform if you have one as long as it's not freezing cold.

C


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Like guns and coffee, this one is something of a perennial eh ?

Mandalay hit it right on the noggin. It's the sump wot matters most. While oil and/or raw sewage in the bilges beats soap scunge hands down the smell of soap scunge is not a nice thing. Get the sump right before all else and as someone else noted use a shower gel not soap.

Even if you are a woman, a hippy or an advertising executive, keep you hair reasonably short. I've alway been something of a long hair but keeping long hair clean on a boat is a right pain in the butt.

Living onboard away from a marina ? Ok, you need a decent shower. 

Ironically enough if you live in a cool climate the need to shower is reduced (less sweat means less BO) but it's often on a cold day that a nice hot shower is just to thing to warm your cockles. In warmer climates you are more likely to develop something of a pong but even so a wet flannel and good deoderant can overcome the problem and you'll probably spend more time swimming. 

Most boats have restricted water capacity so navy showers are probably the go unless you can afford a watermaker, but they are expensive and can be finnicky. I suspect that watermakers are second only to fridges as pain in the butt pieces of equipment. Sure if you can tie up alonside every few days, on demand water heaters are the go but for any of us who spend a fair bit of time away from running water they simply use too much water to be perfectly practical, methinks, while storage tanks are pretty bulky. Nonetheless the tank idea is my preference.

So you have your sump sorted but you don't want to go to the expense and complication of running hot water. Solar showers are one option but having used one I'm not a fan. There are a couple of simple easy to use options for a single person or a couple. (Probably not for a family with kids though.)

On boat I had prior to Raven I used a manual pressure pump container. The type often used to kill weeds in the garden and sometimes for putting out small fires. Available in either plastic or metal (the metal ones can hold greater pressure but that means using more water) in various sizes. You boil a kettle of water and mix with cold to preferred temperature, then pump up the pressure. Don't knock it until you try it. I wouldn't want to have to use this system every day but it's OK for a weekend or a short cruise. Cheap and effective. Away from civilisation you can easily use the cockpit, deck or swim platform.

On Raven we went one better. While still using the kettle to obtain the hot water we now have a small inline 12v electric pump with a shower head. Does use a bit more water than the pump spray but it's acceptable enough and can still be easily used outside. Still a bit inconvenient I must admit.

The new Womboat is bells and whistles. Storage tank, pressurised water, separate shower stall. Thankfully her water capacity is pretty damn impressive. Negative is that the head is forward. If it was aft then the shower stall could double as a wet locker at sea. We live in an imperfect world.

ps - CD, your shaking of the head is akin to my reaction every time I go and have a peek into 'off topic' and see another one of Sway rants.    

pps - does the bilge pump exist that can actually get a sump dry ?


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## dcsailorguy (Jan 9, 2009)

I got a bigger boat b/c my wife said the first one was too small (a 27 footer). I love my late 80's 34 catalina, but I still can't get her onboard. Now I need to have a separate shower stall. Which boats are going to provide me w/ a shower stall, not bust the bank, and be a decent sail?


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