# ALLMAND 31



## sclafever

Anyone have any information about the Allmand 31??


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## Jeff_H

Per below:-Almands had a reputation for being slow, and very poorly built. My sense is that they would not be much fun if you are really into sailing. They were beamy and so had a lot of room for their length. They might make a minimum length liveaboard for not a huge amount of money. Watching them underway, they are not good in light air, heavy air or a chop. These boats are getting pretty long in the tooth so a survey would be in order. I wish the news were better.

Respectfully
Jeff


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## nl836

We own and have been cruising in an Allmand 31 for ten months. After having it on the great lakes for several years we had it shipped to Charlesto where we boarded and started our first cruising experience. We enjoyed it so much that we are making a five year commitment for cruising. The boat sails well, is very forgiving (feels very safe) and is very attractive. It handled well in all weather, surveyed well and is in every respect a lovely boat. We are now looking at bigger boats because of the captains height and our long term commitment. We are finding the field narrow for space and comfort compared to what we already have. Many bigger boats don''t have the head room, bunk length or storage. The Allmond has been a great boat for us.


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## TSOJOURNER

To Jeff H,

While it''s not without hope this trying to explain why certain sailboats have particular features is filled it pitfalls.

Long ago some Encyclopedia Co. wrote a "perfect" door to door sales pitch. The first question was: "Do you live here?"

How to go about this with more success on bulletin boards I have no idea but you do as well as anyone has.

I would not touch an Almand 31 with a 11 foot pole but then I like sailing. There is no way to improve a boat like this. Remember "a bad barrel is forever"


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## nl836

Thanks for the reply. We feel that everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as it is based on fact. I wonder what kind of experience you had on an Allmand that would leave you with such a bad opinion.
Our fellow cruisers were in fact quite impressed with our boats performance, style, and grace. 
The boat also did well racing on the Great Lakes. Respectfully, Nl836


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## TSOJOURNER

I have never been aboard a Allmand 31 however I have seen them try to sail in light air and they fail at this. The Allmand 31 has a Sail Area/Displacement Ratio of 13.44, a ballast displacement ratio of 33%. Combined with only a 4'' draft this design relies too much on it''s beam for stability.

Our boat is a C&C 35-1. It has a SA/DR of 19.2 and a ballast/displacement raio of 48% and for that matter a more desireable (for sailing) beam length ratio too.

Have you ever sailed on a C&C 35? or maybe a C&C 33 or how about a C&C 40??

Look at Grampions. They have a lot of headroom and seem to be your kind of boat.


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## nl836

Mike, We have friends who have a C&C 41. It is a very nice high performance boat. They enjoy racing but are not cruisers. There is not enough living space to live onboard and cruise for length of time that we plan. The boat is very nice and very fast but we are not into racing. We are cruisers who enjoy sailing and more interested in comfort than speed. We are looking at many boats to try and find the right one for us. Sincerely, NL836


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## TSOJOURNER

Then I suggest a trawler. Some of them have a little sail on the back. 

A C&C 41 is too small? I am on the way to visit our friends again in Florida. They live on their C&C 35-1 in the winter. A C&C 35-1 is about the size of a newer 33'' sailboat. 

Get the trawler. I suggest the "Trader" brand. It is just like the Allmand in quality.


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## sclafever

Hi NL. I have talked to over 20 Allmand owners on the internet. All of them tell me there isn''t much out there that is as roomy as the Allmand 31 in that size range. I have researched many boat books that I have and also find that to be true. The C&C is a good boat. However, compared to the Allmand, you lose two lockers, the aft cabin to a quarterberth, and the rudder is unprotected. Allmand owners like thier boats for both cruising and sailing. One owner sold his Allmand and a few years later still has yet to fond something that has the features he is looking for in something else. I also dont think a trawler is the answer. It is not a sailboat and you all said you like to sail. I think (another opinon) that you might have to go with something like the 36 Hallberg Rassy or 36 Najad from Norway. Both good boats, but expensive. However, not as expensive as the Island Packet or Shannon. Good luck!


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## TSOJOURNER

I think I see a trend developing here with this type of boat discussion. Mike and Jeff are performance sailors., I enjoyed your postings regarding the Express. But you are trying to influence people who have a differing interest in sailing then your own., and just because they don''t care much about the speed or light air performance they get out of these fat slow boats, thats no reason to advise them to turn their interests toward stinkpots. I love to race just as much as the next guy. Its just as much fun, in my opinion, to race a slow boat against another slow boat as it is to race a fast boat against another fast boat. Jeff and Mike have good light air and performance advice but they seem to upset the actual owners of the boats they wouldn''t consider owning.


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## TSOJOURNER

My point is why buy a slow boat when you can buy a fast boat? Top ten reasons:

1. It''s always windy here and a lot of sail area is never needed.
2. This boat was cheaper because of low demand for it.
3. I am afraid of tipping so low sail area is for me.
4. I want a boat that looks like a sailboat but we motor all the time.
5. When I bought this boat there was no mast in it and the salesman said it was a good boat.
6. What''s a J boat?
7. What''s PHRF?
8. We belong to a support group and don''t care what you know.
9. We have refrigeration and lots of ice cubes all the time so we run the engine anyway.
10. This boat is better than the Buccanner we had and don''t try to tell me it isn''t.


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## sclafever

Having read all the controversy I feel like I started a needless debate that has resulted in two polarized factions, and produced some sarcastic humor. I think that some people just don''t get it! It''s OK for someone to want a boat for a lot of reasons another person can''t accept. That is what makes this a wonderful country --- freedom of choice. That is why some people by Shannons and others buy Hunters. If people are happy with their choices and happy with the product they buy, then others should respect that and not try to dminish others or put them down. I have a camera, a Leica, and consider it one of the best avaialble. However, I can see why people buy Nikons, Pentax, Cannons and even disposable camers. And I certainly wouldn''t go around making fun of people simply because they chose to buy another camera. Some people like a comfortable slow boat and are happy with their choices...... Lets stop this nonsense and get on with more productive discussions than a list of satirical jibes.


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## TSOJOURNER

It might sound masachistic but I''ve kind of enjoyed this message boards postings, for some reason its brought a smile to my face to see these differences of opinion, like you say, its what makes our country great....thank you sclafever for starting such lively debate, thank you Mike and Jeff for your input., It would be great if my Centaur could sail as fast as the boats you have but, for some reason I can''t find a way to explain to you, I love this boat and so do my family and friends...and thank you Gene and Hank for your supporting comments from all of us slow dancing sailors...Rick R


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## TSOJOURNER

And NL836 (Sorry I forgot to mention you) Keep the faith.....Merry Christmas to all


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## Jeff_H

For the record, the original post asked for any information about Almand 31''s and I gave my opinion and in an email exchange with the original poster my basis for that opinion. My goal was to be informative not to make a judgement whether the fact that the boats are slow (and we all seem to agree that they are slow boats) should discourage you from buying one. We sail for a variety of reasons and ideally take from the sport what appeals to us. 

While reasonable levels of performance is a part of what interests me because it means more sailing and less motoring (and I really hate motoring) and I see performance as a safety issue as well, there is plenty of room out there for all of us, fast or slow, out there to enjoy the water. 

It is not about trying to beat other boats, I do that out on the race course but in the area that I sail, the winds tend to be light occationally puctuated by heavy air. Most of us prefer to sail a specific number of hours on a given day. That time underway will vary with conditions and the individual, but for every 5 miles that you can comfortably sail in a day on the Chesapeake Bay, there are probably 20 to 30 additional anchorages that you can choose from. The difference in miles comfortably sailed in a day between my previous boat with a rating of 174 and my current boat with a rating of 129 amounts to 5 to 10 miles extra in a day and as result means a much wider selection of places that I can go in a weekend and wildly more choices when I go out for a week or more. 

The other part of this is that I genuinely enjoy voyaging under sail. I have been known to cruise for over a week without starting the engine. During that week I sailed on and off the anchor and in and out of slips. There is an aesthetic that I enjoy. Do I judge you if that is not important to you..No. But if you ask my opinion of the Allmands I will tell you that from my perspective, watching them under way and looking at their ratings and talking to owners who have talked honestly about their boats, these are not great sailing boats. They do offer a lot of room for their length, something that has never mattered to me, but which is obviously of importance to the people who buy them. 

In any event, I have owned fast and slow boats (if you think an Allmand is slow I had a 1939 Stadel Cutter that rated near 300), I just happen to prefer faster boats these days. Just because I happen to prefer to go fast, I really don''t judge you for prefering to go slow or being comfortable motoring more than I prefer to. In any event, good luck to all in the New Year ahead. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER

Ahoy mates, I''m looking for a 31'' Allmand. Are there any for sail out there? Would prefer to shop in the Chesapeake Bay area.
Thanks, joan


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## Jeff_H

And, just out of curiousity, why are you specifically looking for an Almand 31?

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER

Joan, 
Yachtworld.com lists one in Rock Hall. I would get a copy of the Mariner or the NorEaster to broaden your search. 

Hank Green
www.allmandsail.com


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## TSOJOURNER

Jeff, among other things... I really like the cabin layout...suits my group. Have met several Allmand owners and they''re very happy with their choice. I''ve looked at a few and just missed a ''beauty'' - deal pending went through...
Joan


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## TSOJOURNER

Thanks, Hank. I have seen that one and it just requires too much work. I''d like to have a boat in the water this season. Yes, have checked the Mariner and the Noreaster.
Now, I''m spending time checking out the net. You never know..... 
Thanks again,
Joan


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## TSOJOURNER

Just read your December post on the message board. I''m impressed that you have spoken to so many Allmand owners. I''m looking for an Allmand. Do you know of any that are for sail?
Thanks, Joan


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## Jeff_H

I don''t know of any for sail but if I hear of one I will pass it on to you.

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER

*Owned an Allmand since 2001*

This is an interesting post. The Allmand 31 does a great job for what it was built. Is it great at racing, no. I have never raced it, but I have sailed with a Hunter 33.3 and other boat friends and we stay up with them especially in heavy air. I actually did not expect that especially with very old sails. As far as quality it is built like a tank, extremely heavy and the hull to deck joint is better that most. It is much better than a Hunter or Catalina. I have a friend that had one in Florida that they lived on for years during the winter. I always call it a poor man's Island Packet. They are getting some age on them, but if it has been taken care of and if the owner has watched water infiltration these are great boats for a cruiser. Everyone likes the design and looks of my boat and I will not get rid of it till I get retire to Florida and sell it in Ohio. The 3'10" draft has it perks, you can go almost anywhere, of course it does cause some sliding. However the hull design is unusual and when the mid ship gets in the water from heel it sails well.
I think this boat is a bargain in the lower level, You could buy a 3 or 4 year old Macgregor and get a really poorly built boat and poor sailing.
Have fun, buy a boat and enjoy life.


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## Delirious

Maybe in the seven years since this thread has been in hybernation they've improved relatively through modern design failures. ;-)

ALLMAND 31 166 210 189​ALLMAND 31 TM 183 189 186

Looks to me that if you can convince the committee to accept that 210 PHRF you'll be in the silver. :-D Interesting the tall mast is worse???
 
One of our local disk jockies had one ("Allmand Joy" - groan). It appears to be middle of the pack as far as sailing abilities. If the interor appeals to you, go for it.


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## modul8

I was on an Allmand 31 this past summer on lake Champlain. I particularly liked the cockpit layout-- it had an l-shaped seat at the front, similar to a powerboat, and the boom traveler was ahead of the companionway--out of the way of people, as was the boom. I can't speak for its speed, as we were in light air almost the whole time, and ended up motoring a lot of the weekend. 
Still, a nice roomy boat inside and out for 31 ft. If you can find one that has been well taken care of, I say go for it. On the other hand there are some rea boat bargains out there right now, and you might find something in the mid-30s range for around 20Gs if you look closely.
Good luck!


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## TSOJOURNER

Hello, This is my first post here. I was willed an Allmand 31 and know virtually nothing about it or sailing. I hope to change that. Are there sources of owners' manuals, specs.,etc.?
Tnx, Tom


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## toastchee

If anyone has any specific questions, I crew regularly on an Allmand 31 here in Charleston. I can check it out and get back to you. 

So far I like it as a big slow fun boat for the weekly race. Looks really good belowdecks.


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## cavildsen

*My 1st post!*

What information are you looking for? I have an allmand 31 and I am looking for the length of the battens on an original mainsail. I am also looking for a mainsail furler. Chris


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## W8ing2sail

cavildsen said:


> What information are you looking for? I have an allmand 31 and I am looking for the length of the battens on an original mainsail. I am also looking for a mainsail furler. Chris


Do you like your Allmand? I'm thinking about purchasing one. There are alot for sale right now at good prices.


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## Allmand-man

WoW allot of veering responses!!
The truth to you question is in the reason why you asked.
The Allmand 31 was built for cursing and has the added beam width for more internal space. The wide beam gives her suability in medium to heavy winds but slows her in the water. I find her relaxing to sail and conferrable for extended trips and for me I enjoy sailing her.


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## mwells

We have owned our Allmand 31 since 2001. We still love it. It is roomy. In winds between 8 and 20 it will sail well. On anywhere from a broad reach to a close reach the boat can easily be balanced. We have actually sailed for more then an hour without touching the wheel. Usually we need to turn as we run out of water before we need to correct direction. Lake Champlain has losts of shoreline. 

When researching the boat we interviewed a guy who had one and I asked him how it sailed to weather. He scratched his chin and said that that was what the motor was for. I assumed he did not know. In anything over the high teens leeway is significant. Maybe it might be better if we had a new main. Last summer we took the mast off and did the NYS canal and NYC. We were comfortable. Did I mention it is roomy. Just remember that all boat designs are a comromise. You give up something to get something else. Determine what your needs and WANTS are first then look for a boat that meets most of them. This boat meets most of our. Of course I would like a boat that maybe sailed a little better but I would have to give up other things like comfort, room and stiffness unless I wanted to go significantly bigger. Bigger means more dollars in every respect. Everyone who comes aboard always ask "how big is this boat" We say 31 and they are really surprised. 

Prop walk in reverse is absolutely an issue. I have learned to use it to dock but getting out of a slip is anything but fun. We have a port side finger and when we leave the dock my crew must give a significant tug on the bow line to get the nose to move to port so when I put it in reverse the prop walk is countered. 

One last point. When we bought the boat the previous owner had it for 5 years and lived aboard. He was in tears. His wife wanted a house. He reminded me that the saying about the two most happy times in a boat owners live is not true. We feel the same. I'm storing up the tears.


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## Dave_E

Old thread, but what the heck. I own hull #15. Built like a tank, surveyed better than most 34 year old boats, original everything except the headliner has been replaced. Hull speed of 7k... she goes 6k in a 12k breeze... what more could you ask for in a cruiser? (I have the tall rig). Interior - very eligant, all teak (I mean ALL), totaly equiped. She has her quirks (prop walk in reverse, poor light air performance) but is there a perfect sailboat? 

Dave


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## captain jack

i have a question. does anyone know who manufactured the opening ports on these boats? i bought 7 of them at a good price and need three more. i need to know exactly what the search for. thanks.


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## miatapaul

captain jack said:


> i have a question. does anyone know who manufactured the opening ports on these boats? i bought 7 of them at a good price and need three more. i need to know exactly what the search for. thanks.


Can you post a photo? Someone might recognize them. I think they may be Bomar.


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## captain jack

miatapaul said:


> Can you post a photo? Someone might recognize them. I think they may be Bomar.


they are on my boat, right now. i'm an hour away. i will be back aboard thursday night so i will snap some pics then.


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## Dave_E

captain jack said:


> i have a question. does anyone know who manufactured the opening ports on these boats? i bought 7 of them at a good price and need three more. i need to know exactly what the search for. thanks.


BECSON Portlights - lense size: 5.75 X 13.


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## Dave_E

captain jack said:


> i have a question. does anyone know who manufactured the opening ports on these boats? i bought 7 of them at a good price and need three more. i need to know exactly what the search for. thanks.


What did you buy 7 of? Portlights or boats? Portlight ought to have a name on it? (I needed this for post #700).


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## captain jack

Dave_E said:


> BECSON Portlights - lense size: 5.75 X 13.


wow. great answer. thanks.


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## AUTONOMIE

Have you ever owned or even sailed the Allmand 31


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## Dave_E

I own one, sail it LOTS. What do you want to know?


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