# Which engines would you think twice about



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Some engines are hard to find parts for. If your buying a boat which engines would make you feel pretty good vs which ones would you be afraid of in reference to finding parts.

Easy
Universal
Yamnar
Atomic 4 but expect to pay 5,000 less for boat as the market has discounted it.


Hard
Farryman
Any raw water cooled


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Add Volvo to the list of hard to find parts for and very expensive if they exist.

Add Beta (marinized Kubota) to the easy list.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Bukh
Renault
BMW
In other words, most of the original engines in 70s Hunters. They did some weird stuff.

I am currently tempted by a a Lloyds Mariner 20 hp engine that is available locally. small, light, simple, but I don't know much about them, so I am hesitant to pull the trigger.


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## nothingshocking1 (Nov 8, 2011)

where does westerbeke fall on the list


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

After owning a Nanni for the past 10 months I have had enough! I am going to re-power with a yanmar when we get hauled out on the 22nd (we found a god price at the miami boat show . We have had an issue with the heat exchanger for some time now and the Nanni rep was less than helpful with locating the parts we needed. His exact words were "Your engine is an older model so we don't carry parts for it. You should consider re-powering with one of our newer models." This was after we finally got him on the phone a month and a half after we had first contacted him! Never again would I even consider owning a Nanni! Overly complex pice of $&#@!


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

I say let's put a Lister in her and see how she does.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

StormBay said:


> After owning a Nanni for the past 10 months I have had enough! I am going to re-power with a yanmar .....


Assuming this was a new-to-you boat 10 months ago - and not a repower in itself?

Anyhow I'm sure I'll be in a minority here, but the various VW marinizations (primarily based on the Rabbit Diesel, and now Jetta) use all the usual marinization parts (Jabsco, Bowman, Hurth/Z), and actual engine parts are pretty much available just about anywhere world wide.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

For toughness, easy to work on and parts availability world wide I like the Isuzu.


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

Faster said:


> Assuming this was a new-to-you boat 10 months ago - and not a repower in itself?


Yes, we bought the boat 10 months ago. Our Nanni is a marinized Mercedes 616 engine (easy to find parts), however the heat exchanger etc are not the usual off the shelf stuff and are all really large and complex castings (impossible to find parts).


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

Faster said:


> Anyhow I'm sure I'll be in a minority here, but the various VW marinizations (primarily based on the Rabbit Diesel, and now Jetta) use all the usual marinization parts (Jabsco, Bowman, Hurth/Z), and actual engine parts are pretty much available just about anywhere world wide.


You're not alone. We have a Pathfinder 50 in our boat that's 30 years old, and it runs very good. While I entertained the idea of a re-power, we haven't had any serious problems with this engine. Parts are not hard to find, but some mechanics don't know the engine that well.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

StormBay said:


> After owning a Nanni for the past 10 months I have had enough! I am going to re-power with a yanmar when we get hauled out on the 22nd (we found a god price at the miami boat show . We have had an issue with the heat exchanger for some time now and the Nanni rep was less than helpful with locating the parts we needed. His exact words were "Your engine is an older model so we don't carry parts for it. You should consider re-powering with one of our newer models." This was after we finally got him on the phone a month and a half after we had first contacted him! Never again would I even consider owning a Nanni! Overly complex pice of $&#@!


If your problems are only with the heat exchanger, Deniseo30 had a post a couple of days ago that had info on exchangers available for converting engines to marine. You might be able to find a cheaper solution than a repower.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

tomperanteau said:


> I say let's put a Lister in her and see how she does.


Would that be the Lister assembled with BSW fasteners and Lucas electrical accessories?


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## CorvetteGuy (Jun 4, 2011)

How bout an OMC saildrive


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

CorvetteGuy said:


> How bout an OMC saildrive


What is the issue with one


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

What about sail drives in general.
Any models ok, any trouble?


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

What about the Palmer and the westerbeak


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

shocking1-
Westerbeke is not an engine. They are a contractor who put out bids for parts, including engine blocks, and then build them up and paint the finished product all red. (Including all the rubber parts, belts, hoses, that the suppliers tell you never to paint.)
So when you buy a "Westerbeke" you really have to find out who made the actual block. The main portions of your engine could come from any one of a number of different companies, depending on which block it is.
Yes they make a number of decent engines, but it is the "paint it all red, don't listen to the prime vendors who say that will make their parts fail" portion that rubs me the wrong way.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

The ones that I can speak to:

Generally good
Cummins
Beta
Detroit (though many of these are starting to get pretty old)
Yanmar
Westerbeke (as mentioned there is some variation in these)
Volvo (newer ones, the parts are still expensive but they run well)
Isuzu
Deere

Ones that I would avoid
Volvo (older ones)
Atomic 4
Farryman
Sabb


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I am pleased with my Westerbeke 58 (Mitsubishi block) except that the parts are very, very expensive. I thought Volvo was bad, but the Westerbeke prices are terrible.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> but it is the "paint it all red, don't listen to the prime vendors who say that will make their parts fail" portion that rubs me the wrong way.


They stopped doing this. Our engine was one of the last "paint it all red" engines. The paint jobs are actually quite good these days and right in line with the rest of them.

In smaller sizes the Westies are often Mitsubishi though they do use Isuzu blocks and others as well. Even small Volvo's are Perkins blocks...

That said the only major that I know of that actually "builds" their engines in small sizes in Yanmar.

Beta = Kubota
Universal = Kubota
Nani (current small models) = Kubota
Yanmar, in larger engines, uses BMW and Deutz blocks among others......

Westerbeke & Universal are quite good about parts availability but the parts, like most, are PRICEY!!!


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

davidpm said:


> What about sail drives in general.
> Any models ok, any trouble?


OMC Zephyr saildrive is on my list of NOT.

They are so close, and yet so far, to being the perfect sailboat engine.

"Most" of the parts are OMC outboard. Then there are the parts that are "not" and they are silly expensive and everything must be ordered.

If one enjoys pulling the engine out of the boat to change the water pump impeller, they are a hoot


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I would live to hear opinions on the vetus, which is actually made by mitsubishi. since this is my first boat/engine, I can't really make any comparison. She does run like a champ every time, though.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

RobGallagher said:


> OMC Zephyr saildrive is on my list of NOT.
> 
> They are so close, and yet so far, to being the perfect sailboat engine.
> 
> ...


Pretty well any boat I've seen originally equipped with these power units now have an outboard on the transom..

Two friends on different boats persevered way beyond reasonable trying to keep them alive.. in the end even they gave up. Corrosion and cooling systems seem to be the biggest issue, with temperature issues and back flooding most prominent.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

klem said:


> The ones that I can speak to:
> 
> Generally good
> Cummins
> ...


You should qualify your listing the Atomic Bomb if your "avoid" call is based only on it being a gas engine. They are wonderful little engines that will last as long as a diesel if cared for. You can also get parts, right down to brand new engine blocks.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

My statement on the atomic 4 is based partly on it being a gas engine but more on the amount of work that one needs to put in to keep it running well. I like an engine that I can put thousands of hours on with only changing the oil, impeller and air filter. Atomic 4's can last a very long time for a gas engine but they require too much work for me.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

klem said:


> My statement on the atomic 4 is based partly on it being a gas engine but more on the amount of work that one needs to put in to keep it running well. I like an engine that I can put thousands of hours on with only changing the oil, impeller and air filter. Atomic 4's can last a very long time for a gas engine but they require too much work for me.


I never thought of that.
What exactly labor wise is required to keep them running that is not required for a diesel?


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Can I assume that any raw water cooled engine is on the NOT list?


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

If a boat has a saildrive unit is it true that to convert to stern shaft is probably not worth it?
If so what saildrive unit would you re-power with?


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

When you guys say expensive what are we taking about.
Sometimes a statement can be true but not significant.
For example I check on some sample prices for a Universal
Impeller 48
starter 1000
injector 121

For a volvo what we we be talking. I couldn't find any which I suspect is part of the problem?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

davidpm said:


> Can I assume that any raw water cooled engine is on the NOT list?


...certainly on the 'rather not' list..



davidpm said:


> If a boat has a saildrive unit is it true that to convert to stern shaft is probably not worth it?


Hmmm.... fitting a shaft log after the fact, mounting a strut where perhaps one was not intended to be.... and then there's the matter of that rather large hole between it all once you manage all that.. a new gearbox may well be required as well..


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

This thread might be helpful to people who are looking to buy a boat but maybe even more so to folks who have an engine that falls on the don't side.

We all know that we can have an engine that was well taken care of and it can last a long long time. Not being able to find parts or part being expensive is only a problem if you need parts.

Being forward that some engines may end up costing more to keep running than they are worth may keep some of us from throughing good money after a formerly good engine.

The repair replace question can be a very important one with engines.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Assuming a good model, starts well, no smoke good compression.

Is there anything that would put an engine on the watch-out list for you?
Age, external corrosion, hours, rebuild?
Anything, what would worry you?


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I would never buy another boat with a Volvo in it.
Spare parts are shockingly expensive.
Like out of sight.

In 1998, a 22 year-old MD17C motor cracked its exhaust manifold. It was my fault. The cost, from Volvo, £1300 (nearly $2000). 

That is typical.

Apparently a 22 year-old motor is "old".

So say Volvo, anyway.

Maybe they are not supposed to last that long?
.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

davidpm said:


> I never thought of that.
> What exactly labor wise is required to keep them running that is not required for a diesel?


They came with fuel and ignition systems that were sort of similar to those in cars at the time (remember how cars used to need tune ups). Many owners have now converted these systems but many are original. The fuel system uses a carburetor which will need to be rebuilt every 5 years or so if it gets good fuel. Unfortunately, the way a carburetor works, they run much better when sitting level with no acceleration which means they work great when motoring in calm weather but not as well when it gets rough. With the ignition system, you will need to clean points, deal with the coil, etc from time to time. Many of the installations used raw water cooling so this must be taken into account as well. If there is good access and the owner knows what they are doing, this is all relatively simple work but it is time consuming.

Much has been debated about the safety of gasoline and while it is undoubtedly more dangerous than diesel, there have been relatively few problems when proper safety precautions are followed. I witnessed a fuel dock explosion from across a harbor when I was a little kid and it left quite an impression. The other problem in my opinion with gasoline versus diesel is that your fuel mileage will be very different meaning a lot more fuel needs to be carried for the same range. For many, this doesn't matter but for some, this is a big deal.

If you are going to look at a boat with the Atomic 4, check the gear ratio and prop size. Many were installed as direct drive with very small high rpm propellers. These do fine in calm water but thrust falls off significantly when it gets rough.

I hope this helps explain why I would put this engine on the no go list.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

davidpm said:


> Assuming a good model, starts well, no smoke good compression.
> 
> Is there anything that would put an engine on the watch-out list for you?
> Age, external corrosion, hours, rebuild?
> Anything, what would worry you?


Here is how I would look at a diesel engine normally:

Listening to the engine will tell you a lot if you know what to listen for. While you are listening, you should watch the exhaust color and have them go up to full rpm both in gear and out. When it is in gear, you will also be able to tell if the gearing/prop is correct. Blue exhaust means that it is burning oil which means it isn't sealing well. If the engine is cold, this might be normal but if the engine is warm, it is a sign of worn rings. Black exhaust means that it isn't getting enough air for the amount of fuel. This could be because the engine is lugging or the air filter is plugged. Grey smoke means that the combustion in the chamber is not optimal and is a sign of fuel delivery issues normally. If diesel or oil comes out, you should look into it.

If they will let you, I recommend taking an oil sample and sending it out to a place like blackstone labs. If they will tell you how many hours are on it since the last oil change, you can get a pretty good idea of what condition the internals are in.

A visual inspection is definitely worthwhile. Look for oil leaks and coolant leaks. The hardest leaks to deal with are usually a rear main, sometimes the oil pan and the head.

How it starts will tell you a lot. Both cold and hot starting are informative. Lots of cranking on a cold start is a sign of poor compression or an air leak in the fuel system usually. On some engines with glowplugs or grid heaters, it can be a sign that these are not working.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

*vetus*

Vetus uses a Mistubishi block but is built in Holland. The US parts warehouse is in Glen Burnie MD near Annapolis.


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## marianclaire (Feb 4, 2010)

Reply to post 34: 
The conversion to electronic ignition is very simple. Install it, EI kit 100$, and you are done. A couple of hours and a 100$ carb rebuild kit every 5 yrs. I can deal with that. I do not know why the updraft carb on the A-4 would cause problems in rough seas. Mine sure hasn't. Crud in the tank, plugged fuel filters yes but that is not the A-4s fault. Raw water cooled is an issue but remember the A-4 was designed and the metal used in the casting is for the marine environment. A-4, gear ratio and prop size is a interesting subject. Engine RPM relates directly to engine HP. Prop size and pitch affect load on the engine and can be checked by manifold vac #s. All this can be joined and create a very viable engine. IMO. Dan S/V Marian Claire


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I loved my Atomic 4 simple, quiet, reliable but eventually replaced it. It's been out of production too long. when Moyer Marine goes away it will be difficult to get parts. Also you need blocks to rebuild and good ones are getting fewer and fewer. It's still pretty big bucks to bore and sleeve. Then you have an engine that's not as desirable for a resale as a diesel.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I have a lot of experience with ATOMIC4 engines and I think they are fantastic.
There are some things that must be done to update them, then, they are pretty much care free.
1. Fresh water cooling
2. Electronic Ignition
3. Modern fuel filter & lines
4. Electric fuel pump
5. Proper prop selection (the Indigo 3 blade is fantastic)
6. PCV valve

Some of these engines have not had anything done to them in 30-40 years. Spending a thousand dollars in parts will get you an engine that might outlive all of us.

The thing is, the way many of us use a sailboat engine is not at all what a diesel engine is designed for. However, it's exactly what a gasoline engine was designed for. If you motor for hours on end, often, you need a diesel. If you motor for a few minutes twice a day, two times per week, your diesel might not be so happy but your Atomic4 will do just fine.

Don Moyer (moyermarine.com) is casting blocks, heads, etc. There are valuable forums there that will get you fast, knowledgeable replies. It's the Sailnet.com for Atomic4's


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Waltthesalt said:


> I loved my Atomic 4 simple, quiet, reliable but eventually replaced it. It's been out of production too long. when Moyer Marine goes away it will be difficult to get parts. Also you need blocks to rebuild and good ones are getting fewer and fewer. It's still pretty big bucks to bore and sleeve. Then you have an engine that's not as desirable for a resale as a diesel.


Don's son seems to be taking more and more phone calls. I think he will be taking over and rightly so as he seems like he knows almost as much as the old man .

Casting blocks and heads can be no small feat, so there must be some demand.

I would never repower a boat that had an A-4 with anything but another A-4. It can be done for less than half the $$ of a diesel repower. That's a lot of rum!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I also love my Atomic 4 but I'm not sure I'd suggest it for everyone. Heck, I'd probably enjoy having an old Palmer with the visible flywheel too. Old engines are easier to work on - and that is the key. These older gasoline engines are good for folks who don't mind getting some dirt in their fingernails (DIY) and who may think they know something about spark ignition gas engines or car engines. There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from knowing you can tweak your own engine while underway if it is needed as well. 
There are very few good Atomic 4 mechanics as far as I know so it is somewhat incumbent on the owner of one to do most (or all) of their engine work themselves. I have learned a lot about both gas and diesel engine installations in the process of learning about my Atomic 4. Neither type of engine scares me now and I never took 'Auto Shop' in high school - kinda' wish I did now though.
Diesel mechanics are a dime a dozen at about $80/hour for those who choose to let someone else do it.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I had an atomic 4 is my first sailboat an Island 28. Was a great motor and never had a problem'

I have had a Yanmar GMF30 in my C&C 35 MKIII with no problem also. Simple engine...just make sure you keep the fuel pure as in all diesels.

Given the choice on repowering I would go with anouther Yanmar and certainly choose deisel over gasoline. The safety of deisel is the number opne reason. Especially for cuisers who have stored jerry cans on deck. I would feel safer with 50 galons of deisel on my deck vs gasoline.

Just saying

Dave


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

A lot is said about the high price of older Volvo parts, and there are certainly examples of heart stopping quotes. The alternative though with many other brands is that those 20+ year old new parts are simply not available. It's a pick your poison type of situation in that regard. That being said, the engines I would prefer in a prospective boat would be the most common and generally recognized in the industry: Kubota (Beta), Yanmar, Volvo, in that order. The ones I would shy away from would be anything 20 years old or older. Engines can be changed out so I've never let that dictate whether to consider a boat or not, if the price is right. What do I have now: 24 year old Volvo)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've owned two boats with Universal Atomic 4s, but engines were fantastic. The first had been sitting for 6 years with water lapping around the engine block for at least three years. After changing the oil, points, plugs, condenser, distributor cap, rotor, then leaning and adjusting the carburetor that engine started right up and ran like a fine-tuned Swiss watch for the next 6 years. The only thing I had to do was change the spark plugs every spring and be sure to treat the gasoline with Marvel Mystery Oil every time gas was added to the tank. This engine was raw-water cooled and eventually, a small inspection plate sprung a pinhole leak on the side of the block and the plate was replaced with no problems since.

My current engine is a Universal Atomic4, runs great, has been updated by Moyer Marine, fresh-water cooled, and provides me with 12 to 15 MPG fuel economy, depending upon the weather conditions. That translates to 600 to 750 miles of cruising range in a single tank of gas--not bad for a 37-year-old engine. Maintenance is about the same, change the oil regularly, change the plugs and filters once a year, and use Marvel Mystery Oil with the fuel. The Universal Atomic4 has a great reputation for longevity and durability--that's why they were so popular in military vehicles. Most WW-II vets I've talked with said you had to shoot the A4 in order to kill it, but it always took more than a single shot to do it in.

As for transporting diesel V/S gasoline in jerry cans on deck, I'm not too concerned. The cans will be tightly strapped down to the deck, similar to the way a marine battery is strapped down--not bungee corded to stanchions like so many that I've seen. Even in a knockdown situation those strapped down cans would still be in place.

I suspect that if you had a lot of fuel vapor in an enclosed area, gasoline, being far more volatile, would be easier to ignite with a small spark. Keep in mind, though that both gasoline and diesel fumes are only explosive when the correct amount of oxygen is available. One of the neat things I learned many years ago while being schooled at Exxon in Seattle, WA was gasoline vapor can be too rich to ignite. The instructor proved his point by tossing a lit match down the above ground vent of a 20,000-gallon, underground gasoline storage tank. The match immediately went out--the vapors were too rich to burn. He did the same trick with diesel. (I'm pretty sure there were students there that thought they were going to die that day.  )

Last summer I discovered something about jerry cans that scares the crap out of me, though. The feds, in their infinite wisdom, came out with new regulations for plastic jerry cans. They have been fitted with a new, leakproof spout that has a valvular ring attached to the outside. You must press the spring-loaded valve down in order for fuel to flow from the spout, which seems like a good thing. Unfortunately, there have been some major problems with the valves, some stick open, while others stay tightly closed--even when you try to open them. The black plastic that the spout assembly must be fairly tasty too. Squirrels, mice, chipmunks and other critters love to eat that black plastic and completely ignore the associated fumes. I watched a squirrel at our marina climb across a nearby boat's docklines, hopped on the red, plastic jerry can and proceeded to eat the top cap just like he was enjoying a peanut snack. The squirrel also ate part of the spout as well. With that in mind, I think I'll try to find some old, military style jerry cans for by trip to the south--just to be on the safe side.

Cheers,

Gary


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## HUGOSALT (Jun 15, 2004)

I thought I had a problem with my Yanmar once, but I was mistaken"
(bottom being cleaned every 2 weeks but not prop)

Going on 27 years now, Yanmar 3GMC raw water cooled with saildrive SD20 
(saildrive still being made) roughly 2500 hours+/- no hour meter.
I change oil, filters, zincs, and clean raw water passage every few years.
When I ask Mack Boring what else I can do...they say change the oil and
run her hard!


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

I have owned boats with the following engines:

Universal Atomic A4
Universal M25xp
Yanmar 4JH2E

The Atomic was a work horse and had oodles of power. Not a lot of maintenance on it and it just kept running. It is still running for the current owner. Parts reasonable but may not be easy to find in foreign countries.

The Universal was a great diesel but you had to know the engine and how to bleed the fuel lines, change the pump filter, etc. It ran well and was strong. Cheap parts at Kubota dealers.

The Yanmar is by far the best of the lot. It seems to have been designed from the ground up to be a tough marine engine. Parts are expensive but very high quality. Worldwide distribution.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Where would you put Beta?

So far my experience with Stanley at Beta has been stellar


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

I think that beta are very good engines. They are simple and reliable which is the most important and they are reasonably quiet as well. The base kubota engines are very good little engines and you can buy most parts direct from kubota.

If you are planning on world cruising, it might be worth looking at the availability of the beta specific components. Otherwise, I would not have any reservations.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

What about sail drives?
I'm not sure I would know what to do with a 20+ year old boat with a sail drive that was on the way out. An engine swap is not as easy as with a stern drive is it?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I'd say an engine swap with a saildrive would be easier as long as you've got the right adaptor to the sail drive.. the alignment issue is easier with a more stable receiving end (sail drive input rather than a relatively sloppy shaft in stuffing box hose..)


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I would' t touch a Volvo. Almost everyone I know who has had one, had nothing but trouble with them. 
I remember seeing a bumper sticker which said " Any parts found falling off my Volvo are of the finest Swedish craftsmanship."


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## nothingshocking1 (Nov 8, 2011)

any comments about westerbeke engines


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Brent Swain said:


> I would' t touch a Volvo. Almost everyone I know who has had one, had nothing but trouble with them.
> I remember seeing a bumper sticker which said " Any parts found falling off my Volvo are of the finest Swedish craftsmanship."


Thanks for the warning.
The boat I'm caring for this season has a volvo penta 2002 so I will wear gloves just to be safe.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Faster said:


> I'd say an engine swap with a saildrive would be easier as long as you've got the right adaptor to the sail drive.. the alignment issue is easier with a more stable receiving end (sail drive input rather than a relatively sloppy shaft in stuffing box hose..)


What do you mean adapter?

I thought a saildrive was just dropped into a big hole on the bottom of the boat.

Is it like an engine mount issue? The hole has a certain configuration and you have to have a ring that fits the hole on the bottom and the engine on top?

Never seen one taken apart.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

davidpm said:


> What do you mean adapter?
> 
> I thought a saildrive was just dropped into a big hole on the bottom of the boat.
> 
> ...


It's like an automotive adapter to join an engine and transmission that were never mated at the factory. It's essentially a ring of aluminium with the engine bellhousing bolt pattern AND the different transmission bolt pattern. You bolt it to the back of the engine and then bolt the trans (or saildrive) to it.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Tell me someone, is the Kubota an overhead valve or overhead cam motor?

I have always liked the OHV motors, and with peak power being about 3000 rpm, that is well within the range of an OHV.


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

My Vetus has been flawless so far . . . been in water in New England last four seasons, starts EVERY time even with low battery slow crank sub zero . . .


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

Repowered with a Beta 50 two years ago and am very happy. The US rep office is super helpful and parts are very simple to find, either from the NC office, Kubota and in many cases NAPA.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Rockter said:


> Tell me someone, is the Kubota an overhead valve or overhead cam motor?
> 
> I have always liked the OHV motors, and with peak power being about 3000 rpm, that is well within the range of an OHV.


My Universal M25 (Kubota) is an overhead valve design with the valves connected to the camshaft by tappets and pushrods.

WOT on my engine (no load) is 3K RPM. This is controlled by a governor.
WOT under load is 2600 RPM. I am not sure if this is a problem.

I LOVE that I can buy parts for my engine at the local Kubota dealer for 1/3 the Marine price.


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## Jetexas (Apr 3, 2012)

To me, the key to an affordable, easy-to-maintain engine is going with something that is still in production.

My boat came with a Westerbeke 10-Two. It hadn't been made since 1987. A new starter was listing for $1000. A head gasket was $350. A rebuild kit was going to be around $4000.

I found a salvage Beta Marine with a Kubota Z482 block, which is still in production. I spent $2k on a new long block and swapped over the marinized parts. Starters are now $80. Complete gasket sets are $50.

Always go with something that is still being manufactured. Even if you have to spend a little more to re-power, you're going to save in the long run.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jetexas said:


> To me, the key to an affordable, easy-to-maintain engine is going with something that is still in production.
> 
> My boat came with a Westerbeke 10-Two. It hadn't been made since 1987. A new starter was listing for $1000. A head gasket was $350. A rebuild kit was going to be around $4000.
> 
> ...


Pretty good advice but not absolute - The Atomic 4 being a case in point. I haven't had any problem with parts for my Perkins 4-107. Some parts are a bit pricey but well within the "marine" standard.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Brent Swain said:


> I would' t touch a Volvo. Almost everyone I know who has had one, had nothing but trouble with them.
> I remember seeing a bumper sticker which said " Any parts found falling off my Volvo are of the finest Swedish craftsmanship."


Anyone know why there are so many volvo Penata repair shops. It seems every marina I stop at in ct and ny has a volvo penta sign.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

davidpm said:


> Anyone know why there are so many volvo Penata repair shops. It seems every marina I stop at in ct and ny has a volvo penta sign.


Volvo owned the OEM small boat diesel market years ago. I daresay there will be Yanmar shops everywhere before too much longer. 

Volvo marinized Chevy small blocks as well - LOTS of them around.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

And I suspect that Volvo were simply less restrictive with their franchise terms. IIRC Yanmar sold franchises by exclusive territory, and in order to ensure profitability they made the territories fairly large and exclusive. Which is why they'll slap dealers selling discount mail-order parts outside their assigned territories.

It is, after all, a business.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

Capt Len said:


> For toughness, easy to work on and parts availability world wide I like the Isuzu.


Where are you finding the parts? I have a C240 (Pisces) and have had difficulty locating parts.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Rarely need parts but our local shop in Sidney (Klassen Diesel ) has good inventory and no trouble ordering stuff when they solved my problem of injesting water while running. I've looked at Izusu dealers in Thailand and Malaysia and found them well stocked. Make sure you've got all the part #s correct .Marinized bits by second party may be a different story.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

davidpm said:


> Anyone know why there are so many volvo Penata repair shops. It seems every marina I stop at in ct and ny has a volvo penta sign.


Because they own the majority of the inboard power boat business. I am sure there small diesel portion of there business is in the realm of single digit percentage. I would be willing to bet that most of the Volvo Penta shops don't work on diesels at all, or only do it grudgingly.


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

killarney_sailor said:


> I am pleased with my Westerbeke 58 (Mitsubishi block) except that the parts are very, very expensive. I thought Volvo was bad, but the Westerbeke prices are terrible.


I'll never buy another one, that's for sure. Limited distribution, and they are selling you a common part available at any diesel shop but at 8x the price and trying to obfuscate the more common part #s


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Wow page 7 on marine diesels before there is a mention of Perkins.

4-108 in my previous boat and 4-154 [Japanese version] in the current one.

Widely used in a variety of apps.

Some 4-108s driving pumps/generators have made it past 50,000 hours untouched except for routine servicing.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

i have the Perkins Prima 50; somewhat rare engine but starts every time so far. Starts reliably on the coldest days. 

Not sure of the similarity of Volvo and Perkins; ??? I have a volvo parts book that matches the engine for the most part. 

Maintenance Parts do seem to be somewhat cheap when bought other than perkins. I had it out of the boat 3 years ago and discovered that Perkins is a very popular engine. They are used in Massey-ferguson tractors, Caterpillar skid steers and many commercial generators. I had mine taken apart (head cleaned of coke, injectors checked, bottom end checked) and tuned up at the tractor dealer for $1k. I consider that fairly cheap.

By the way; even anyone knows where i can find a Perkins Prima 50 Repair manual, just let me know. (nothing on-line, i know)


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Just to document the pain of owning a Volvo; A friend had to replace the thermostat for his MD7a this summer - it cost him $90


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## ericirvine (Aug 17, 2002)

I have to put in a shout for the Universal diesels based on Kubota blocks. I have just completed a complete rebuild of a Universal 5416 (16hp 2-cyl) and was able to get 90% of my parts from Kubota tractor dealers for very reasonable prices. These Kubota-based engines have a good reputation for reliability, which I'm hoping is well-justified. My rebuild was a little over $2K including machining, which translates to 25% of the price of a new engine. 

I also had an Atomic4 for 8 years. Sweet little engine. Replaced oil, plugs, points and checked timing every year. Never had any other issues.

Just My $0.02. 

Eric Irvine
1980 Bristol 29.9
"Selkie"


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

IMHO, if you've got a choice, get a Yanmar. I've had them on 2 boats and never did anything to them but oil/coolant changes and impellers. They were rock solid for us YMMV. 

We've had a couple of fresh water cooled Westerbekes and a raw water cooled Volvo. Made them both work (I would not take them out of a boat, or eliminate a boat from consideration that had one), but they were both more trouble. Seems like we were always fixing some little thing, but with attention they were reasonably reliable. Volvo was definitely the hardest to keep running, but it was raw water cooled, and 20 years old, so who can complain?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

where i currently occupy space, the easiest engines to find parts for are perkins and tohatsu. they propel forkilfts, tractors and buses.
mercedes benz also for bus propulsion
donot try to find yanmar. more than one month for shipping from san diego. no sources here. 
no volvo
no universal
no beta
havent seen too many ih, cat or detroit...rare finds, only one john deer tractor, brand new, on roadside, was farming...


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

zeehag said:


> no beta


Kubota diesel is the base for the beta.
Kubota is supposed to be available a lot of places.


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