# How can I find a small PHRF racer?



## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

I have recently moved to a new club where the one-design racing fleets are not a good fit and have decided that I would be well served by racing in the PHRF fleet in a 18' to 22' sloop with a fixed or retractable keel and an assymetrical spinnaker.. I have identified several designs that meet my criteria but haven't had any luck finding them for sale. The price is too low to make this sort of boat worth handling for yacht brokers. The class associations seem moribund. Using Search Tempest to comb Craig's List offerings within 800 miles I found only one offering and it was more of project than I'm willing to undertake. Do you have other avenues to find a small PHRF racer?


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Maybe Facebook Marketplace? Otherwise, I have found new listings by just googling the boat. What boats are you looking for, and where? There may be some on this forum that would have a lead.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

The Big Cat said:


> I have recently moved to a new club where the one-design racing fleets are not a good fit and have decided that I would be well served by racing in the PHRF fleet in a 18' to 22' sloop with a fixed or retractable keel and an assymetrical spinnaker.. I have identified several designs that meet my criteria but haven't had any luck finding them for sale. The price is too low to make this sort of boat worth handling for yacht brokers. The class associations seem moribund. Using Search Tempest to comb Craig's List offerings within 800 miles I found only one offering and it was more of project than I'm willing to undertake. Do you have other avenues to find a small PHRF racer?


First thing I would do is talk to the racers at the club and find out what the most active divisions are, and then target boats that fit into that rating band. There is no point in getting a phrf boat that is an outlier, or fits into a division that only has a few boats on the line on any given day. PHRF breaks down if rating spreads are too big in a fleet. You may also find a boat by word of mouth among the racing crowd. There is often that guy who used to race a lot, but doesn't any more, and his boat is sitting unused. I have seen a number of good boats change hands within the racing community without ever hitting the open market.

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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Big Cat said:


> I have recently moved to a new club where the one-design racing fleets are not a good fit and have decided that I would be well served by racing in the PHRF fleet in a 18' to 22' sloop with a fixed or retractable keel and an assymetrical spinnaker.. I have identified several designs that meet my criteria but haven't had any luck finding them for sale. The price is too low to make this sort of boat worth handling for yacht brokers. The class associations seem moribund. Using Search Tempest to comb Craig's List offerings within 800 miles I found only one offering and it was more of project than I'm willing to undertake. Do you have other avenues to find a small PHRF racer?


Also, 
What is your budget and where are you in the country?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Have you tried sailboatlistings.com? Has boats for sale by owner and in all sizes. Note however that many listings are old and don't seem to get removed.


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## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

Covid has squashed the post-race socialization where I'd normally get most the skinny on boats available. I have heard a couple of boats from the one-design fleets but I don't think that they are a good fit. I don't see any boats in the PHRF fleet that appeal to me.

I think that the sweet spot in the PHRF fleet is about 165 rating. I'm looking for a small keel boat with a rating around there. My first thoughts are C&C SR Max 21, Sonar, or Impulse 21. Other prospects include: Irwin mini-ton, Ranger 23, Santana 20, and Santana 23-D. I am on the Delaware River near Philadelphia. I'm willing to travel up 600 miles for a good boat on a good trailer. The boat will be kept at a mooring. Budget would not be a constraint. 

My previous boats were J/27(raced PHRF), J/30 ( raced both PHRF and one-design; lost in Sandy), and a Thistle.(one-design)

I have exhausted Sailboatlisting.com and Texas sailing. All relevant listings are out-of-date. Most owners didn't respond. The few that did respond told me that they had sold the boat three or more years ago.


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## FLFrers36 (Feb 13, 2016)

The Big Cat said:


> Covid has squashed the post-race socialization where I'd normally get most the skinny on boats available. I have heard a couple of boats from the one-design fleets but I don't think that they are a good fit. I don't see any boats in the PHRF fleet that appeal to me.
> 
> I think that the sweet spot in the PHRF fleet is about 165 rating. I'm looking for a small keel boat with a rating around there. My first thoughts are C&C SR Max 21, Sonar, or Impulse 21. Other prospects include: Irwin mini-ton, Ranger 23, Santana 20, and Santana 23-D. I am on the Delaware River near Philadelphia. I'm willing to travel up 600 miles for a good boat on a good trailer. The boat will be kept at a mooring. Budget would not be a constraint.
> 
> ...


J22 would be a good boat


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## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

Thanks, the J/22 is raced in a highly competitive, one-design fleet at the club. I'm new to the club and getting long of tooth; I'm afraid I wouldn't have much luck recruiting a compettive crew. Twenty years ago I would have been on it like stink on poop.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Ranger 23 and the Santana 23D are both competitive under PHRF. My only comment is that any 22-24 foot boat will require an equal size, and equally skilled crew to race competitively. Personally, I found the J-22 to be a super boat and affordable boat to race one design, but not as easily competitive under PHRF. 

Jeff


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

The Big Cat said:


> Covid has squashed the post-race socialization where I'd normally get most the skinny on boats available. I have heard a couple of boats from the one-design fleets but I don't think that they are a good fit. I don't see any boats in the PHRF fleet that appeal to me.
> 
> I think that the sweet spot in the PHRF fleet is about 165 rating. I'm looking for a small keel boat with a rating around there. My first thoughts are C&C SR Max 21, Sonar, or Impulse 21. Other prospects include: Irwin mini-ton, Ranger 23, Santana 20, and Santana 23-D. I am on the Delaware River near Philadelphia. I'm willing to travel up 600 miles for a good boat on a good trailer. The boat will be kept at a mooring. Budget would not be a constraint.
> 
> ...


In that handicap range you can find a lot of good phrf keelboats in the 25ft range, although not all of them full-on sportboats. Some boats you might want to consider are: 
A B25. I campaigned one for a few seasons and it was a blast to sail and competitive. Stock they have a symmetric chute but easily converted if you wanted to.

Olson 25, another great boat, that actually has a bit of interior in case you wanted to do more than just race. We raced one for several seasons and were very competitive.

Martin 242, they still have a number of active one design fleets, but are also good phrf boats. Again, they have enough interior for weekend trips as well as racing.

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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

At the affordable end of the range are boats little the Wavelength 24, Capri 25, Kirby 25, j-24 and S2 6.9. A little more expensive is the Tripp 26.

Jeff


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## odj22sailor (Mar 23, 2017)

The Big Cat said:


> I have recently moved to a new club where the one-design racing fleets are not a good fit and have decided that I would be well served by racing in the PHRF fleet in a 18' to 22' sloop with a fixed or retractable keel and an asymmetrical spinnaker.. I have identified several designs that meet my criteria but haven't had any luck finding them for sale. The price is too low to make this sort of boat worth handling for yacht brokers. The class associations seem moribund. Using Search Tempest to comb Craig's List offerings within 800 miles I found only one offering and it was more of project than I'm willing to undertake. Do you have other avenues to find a small PHRF racer?


I have the boat you might be looking for.. I have a extremely fast Capri 22 with a tall mast deep keel and I set it up with asymmetrical spinnaker.


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## odj22sailor (Mar 23, 2017)

odj22sailor said:


> I have the boat you might be looking for.. I have a extremely fast Capri 22 with a tall mast deep keel and I set it up with asymmetrical spinnaker.
> if you interested call Dave @240-357-8109


Here is a pic of the boat


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Capri 22 tall rig fin keep would be a very competitive shorthanded PHRF boat, but in the 200 range.
Jeff's suggestions were much closer, Capri 25, and Wavelength 24, both of which can be competitive short handed if sailed right.

Another bigger in same range might be an S2 7.9, there are real boats available on s279.org but they are drawing top dollar now.

Ultimate 24 might work but will require some crew.

Buying a boat now will be tough and expensive. Check Sailing Anarchy classifieds. Also if you are getting old listing on sailboatlistings you aren't paying attention to posting date. People post them but rarely remove them, same with sailingtexas. Always check posting date first. Craigslist will sometimes find rare boats that aren't listed elsewhere.


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## Sailr (Dec 27, 2021)

The Big Cat said:


> I have recently moved to a new club where the one-design racing fleets are not a good fit and have decided that I would be well served by racing in the PHRF fleet in a 18' to 22' sloop with a fixed or retractable keel and an assymetrical spinnaker.. I have identified several designs that meet my criteria but haven't had any luck finding them for sale. The price is too low to make this sort of boat worth handling for yacht brokers. The class associations seem moribund. Using Search Tempest to comb Craig's List offerings within 800 miles I found only one offering and it was more of project than I'm willing to undertake. Do you have other avenues to find a small PHRF racer?


Find yacht clubs and sailing clubs that are near you--search online, ask around. Look at their websites--they will either have a FOR SALE/SAIL section, &/or NEWSLETTERS. Newsletters nearly always have For Sale listings. Give someone a call, odds are good they will love to chat about boats and sailing. 
Yeah/No, yacht brokers aren't going to have what you described! You are right.


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## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

Thank you all for your assistance. Since the sailing season has ended for most, a few appropriate boats have started to appear on Craigslist.


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## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

I found a W. D. Schock Wavelength 24 through Searchtempest.com. It's been well maintained and has reasonably fresh sails. Now I need to find and develop crew.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

The Big Cat said:


> I found a W. D. Schock Wavelength 24 through Searchtempest.com. It's been well maintained and has reasonably fresh sails. Now I need to find and develop crew.


Did you buy the Wavelength? Have you done any races yet?

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## The Big Cat (Jul 1, 2020)

I did buy the Wavelength 24 and am very happy with it. I have started racing it and have enjoyed success in light air. We've practiced a bit in more wind and it looks like it will be a hoot.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Big trick with that WL 24 is to keep her flat as the winds pipe up. Get meat on the rail, or you will be fighting dumping air. That beast will surf like mad downwind, with that full masthead kite, it feels like she's being picked up and skipped across the water. Great boat. (no not surfing in this pic). Someone sent me a short video, I'll have to find it, me sailing solo in about 15 knots wind flying the kite surfing like mad downwind. One of those rare days when winds were out of the south blowing straight down the lake.


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