# Galley Oven



## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

I have recently purchased a Morgan 41 Out Island which was originally equipped with an electric stove/oven. In my opinion, this was not the best choice as it requires either shore power or running the genny to even heat up a pot of coffee. I am swapping this out and am currently looking at the options. I am considering an alcohol stove/oven but am hesitant as this would require I carry yet another fuel type. The propane option is also under consideration, but this has always worried me as I never fully trust the electronic shutoffs, etc. In addition, the propane plumbing and associated hardware raises the cost of this option considerably.

Has anyone tried fitting a camp stove/oven as seen here? It seems a gimbal kit could be easily added and the overall cost is very attractive at ~$200. This propane solution would not require any plumbing or electronic shutoffs as it can be operated from the 1lb canisters easily disconnected when not in use.

Amazon.com: Camp Chef Camping Outdoor Oven with 2 Burner Camping Stove: Kitchen & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51aGT7UPHgL

I am curious to hear if anyone is using a similar setup and what their experience has been with long term usage.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Where would the gas cylinder be when it the stove is in use?

If it is inside the boat this would be a BAD THING! A seriously BAD THING.

Use it on a cockpit table with cockpit drains hmm might be OK but not really practicable.

Also I suspect that you will find that the burners are not stainless steel and rust away within months. 

Long term a Force 10 is the way to go. Mine is at least 7 years old and gets used daily. All the burners are original, the only thing that is dicky is the ignition and I could posssibly fix this AGAIN!


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Good points to ponder, thanks!....

"Where would the gas cylinder be when it the stove is in use?" It appears the regulator attaches in the back of the unit which I believe could be extended.

If it is inside the boat this would be a BAD THING! A seriously BAD THING." Interested to understand how this would be much different from a traditional "plumbed" propane oven. As explained above, the tank could be separated from the open flame via extension by 3-4 feet, thereby removing the cylinder from the "danger zone".

"Also I suspect that you will find that the burners are not stainless steel and rust away within months." Per the ad, the description states the burners are brass and should hold up well in that environment.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The problem is the gas cylinder being inside the boat. You want to keep the cylinder in a separate vapour proof locker vented over the side.

I believe that there is a US code on this and failure to meet the code will make insurance a problem.

See http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/propane-systems.asp"]http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/propane-systems.asp

The stove on its own might do the job and at sub $200 is a bargain when compared with a similar Force 10 at $1200 although that comes with gimbals.

I used a Flavell Vanessa on my first boat as a cheap stove. It did the job but I needed new grill and top burners every two to three years. It was enamel and brass.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

MSter said:


> I have recently purchased a Morgan 41 Out Island .


If you bought an Out Islander to go out island I would get a propper marine Eno or Force 10 stove and plum it in properly with a propane system. The propane haters have gone out with the Elivs killed JFK mob.

The stove is the only thing on a boat that one uses more than the dinghy! Its the second most used thing on this boat except the head (used to issue internet advice). Its used 3 meals per day and sundry cups of coffee at anchor and at sea even more!

Unless you are required by law dump the idea of an electronic solinoid.

Mark


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> If you bought an Out Islander to go out island I would get a propper marine Eno of Force 10 stove and plum it in properly with a propane system. The propane haters have gone out with the Elivs killed JFK mob.
> 
> The stove is the only thing on a boat that one uses more than the dinghy! Its the second most used thing on this boat except the head (used to issue internet advice). Its used 3 meals per day and sundry cups of coffee at anchor and at sea even more!
> 
> ...


I admit, I am being swayed by short term costs vs long term convenience/use. My Citation has the propane Force 10 and the wife has gotten used to its idiosyncrasies (hot spots, etc). Maybe I will get the portable oven for the Citation and swap for the Force 10...hmmm!


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## nkamper (May 15, 2012)

How much do the gas canisters run for this stove? You could end up spending less up front but way more in the long run if you are using small disposable canisters. Don't know if this is the case, but if they are disposable then that becomes another issue too. I think there's probably a good reason that the marine industry settled on the choices that they did. Just something else to consider.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

nkamper said:


> How much do the gas canisters run for this stove? You could end up spending less up front but way more in the long run if you are using small disposable canisters. Don't know if this is the case, but if they are disposable then that becomes another issue too. I think there's probably a good reason that the marine industry settled on the choices that they did. Just something else to consider.


Agreed. My thought was to refill the 1lb canisters using an available adapter. I was going to install a 20lb cylinder in a vented locker on deck but am trying to avoid plumbing anything below if at all possible. If going this route proves to be unsafe, I will simply do what needs to be done.....


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Second the insurance issue. If you're unlucky enough to blow you(and the boats around you) up but survive, I doubt your insurance will cover you (or the Hinkley you damaged ).


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

nkamper said:


> How much do the gas canisters run for this stove? You could end up spending less up front but way more in the long run if you are using small disposable canisters. Don't know if this is the case, but if they are disposable then that becomes another issue too. I think there's probably a good reason that the marine industry settled on the choices that they did. Just something else to consider.


Well I doubt you would ever live long enough to make up the difference in price in propane. It is going to cost at least two grand to install propane oven and system to ABYC standards in order to make the insurance company happy. But I think the safety factor is the real issue. The canisters are just plain unsafe in the cabin. I could see a single burner that you keep outside the cabin for occasional weekend use, but if you want to actually cook then a properly set up system is in order. You basically have four choices, a propane system, non pressurized alcohol, kerosene or diesel system (going down in popularity). I think the Orgo non pressurized stoves are expensive but a real option as install costs are very low. Basically they will bolt in place where ever the electric stove was, if it physically fits. A proper Marine propane system will cook the most like a home stove, and is very continent, and safe if all systems are working and monitored. Kero and diesel systems are a bit more limited in availability, but have there advocates.

Does anyone make a CNG system anymore? Seems to have the advantage of cooking like propane, but safer (gas rises). One would think with all the supply of natural gas it should be becoming more available. Seems in the North East at least many marinas offer exchange tanks, but I have heard complaints of trying to get fuel for them. That brings up a big issue, make sure you check local availability of the fuel where you plan on being.

To play devils advocate I have heard mixed things about these stoves. There are several reviews of folks using them on the Sailfar forum. Some like them, others seem to have had issues with them not being very reliable for frequent use. But saying that I could not recommend using one on a boat, and that is a nice boat and deserves a proper setup. I assume you are planning on keeping it for a while.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Youo could sell the boat and buy one with a oven already in it. 

Certainly be lunacy cruising anywhere without an oven. Whats the GF going to cook the bunnies in? 

A $2,000 fitting for something you use 6 times per day every day for a 5 years cruise and then a 10 year senility is cheap as chups for a boat.

And if you dont use propane what would you use? Buy some firewood?


So look at you, not the boat. What is the purose of the boat? If its to sail 10 weekends per year and then put on the hard its a different use than living aboard for 15 years.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Well....when you put it that way perhaps it is penny smart, pound foolish to go the route I was thinking...the smart move is to keep the wifey happy...it all comes around!

This sounding board has convinced me to deinstall the propane stove/oven and associated solenoids from my current boat and retro fit it with a gimballed low pressure alcohol burner. I can offset the cost of install with selling the electric stove from my "new to me" boat to one of my trawler friends....problem solved...

Now, where does one go to get trawler friends!?


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## Solandri (Sep 7, 2012)

miatapaul said:


> Does anyone make a CNG system anymore? Seems to have the advantage of cooking like propane, but safer (gas rises).


Propane is preferred because it liquifies under moderate pressure. This greatly reduces the pressure the tank needs to be designed to withstand - usually 200 psi or less (14 atmospheres or less).

CNG stays gaseous, which results in much higher pressures needed to hold a similar quantity of energy in a given volume. Typically 3000+ psi (200+ atmospheres). So the safety you gain in the event of a leak is balanced out by the additional weight and lessened safety against puncture.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> And if you dont use propane what would you use? Buy some firewood?


Well there are other options, and yes wood is one, but only if you are cruising northern climates, I imagine that Brent might use it! You get the advantage of heating the boat as well. But alcohol is a viable option and much less money to install. So if you are cost conscience it is a good option. The Cookmates are quite reasonable, the Origo stove with oven is 1,500 so you are getting into propane territory though I have seen them used for much less and the burners are simple, easy to replace and the only thing that could go wrong. There are still Kerosene stoves available as well and they have there advocates. And At least one diesel stove as well.



Solandri said:


> Propane is preferred because it liquifies under moderate pressure. This greatly reduces the pressure the tank needs to be designed to withstand - usually 200 psi or less (14 atmospheres or less).
> 
> CNG stays gaseous, which results in much higher pressures needed to hold a similar quantity of energy in a given volume. Typically 3000+ psi (200+ atmospheres). So the safety you gain in the event of a leak is balanced out by the additional weight and lessened safety against puncture.


That is good to know. The tanks are certainly much heavier duty than LPG. Seems as though supply is the real issue as well.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not propane-phobic. It simply doesn't cause many fires or explosions, as it requires a fairly narrow range of gas-air mix to ignite. Pure propane won't burn, neither will heavily dilluted. Ever have trouble lighting your BBQ?

However, I would never leave a propane bottle in the cabin. A leak will settle in the bilge and then has no where to vent. There are ignition sources and the gas may just wait and wait until that perfect mix is made. No good.

The bottle should be outside. When we're done cooking, we hit the breaker for the solenoid and watch the flame go out before closing the handle. This way we know the solenoid works. We don't always go shut the tank off, as we now know the solenoid is closed and the fail is to remain closed so a hose leak can't fill the boat.

I have zero concern over using the portable tanks outdoors, which is what that oven seems to be designed for. Way too much dillution for it to ever be a real concern.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

One thing to consider before going the alcohol stove route. The alcohol can be difficult to find and it is generally pretty expensive, and worst of all you have to store several of the flimsy (and soon rusty) gallon cans of it somewhere on your boat. My advice is to bite the bullet and install a proper propane system and stove. We installed a Dickinson three burner stove several years ago and highly recommend it.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

All good points...much appreciated. I have taken possession and am underway back to Tampa bay. In looking at the electric unit currently installed, I can easily retro fit the propane Force 10 but the plumbing will be a bit of a run to the aft deck where I plan on installing the locker. I would be interested to see where others have exited the deck on an Out Island 416 to ensure a clean and most direct run.

The list of "to do's" is already growing and she hasn't even spent the first night in her slip!!!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

MSter said:


> All good points...much appreciated. I have taken possession and am underway back to Tampa bay. In looking at the electric unit currently installed, I can easily retro fit the propane Force 10 but the plumbing will be a bit of a run to the aft deck where I plan on installing the locker. I would be interested to see where others have exited the deck on an Out Island 416 to ensure a clean and most direct run.
> 
> The list of "to do's" is already growing and she hasn't even spent the first night in her slip!!!


So did you buy Dream Weaver? Looks nice.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

If you decide to go with propane maybe this will help.

Safe Propane Installations on Boats.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

jrd22 said:


> One thing to consider before going the alcohol stove route. The alcohol can be difficult to find and it is generally pretty expensive, and worst of all you have to store several of the flimsy (and soon rusty) gallon cans of it somewhere on your boat.


Is the "hard to find" an international concern? In the US and Canada I've found it at every hardware store and painting store that I've looked in, and those are almost everywhere.

1 gallon of fuel is pretty expensive at $10-$15, but that lasts me about a month of living on the boat and cooking most meals (note that I only have a stove, no oven).

For some reason some marine stores sell the same stuff in a different can for closer to $30. My favorite is Fisheries Supply in Seattle which has the $30 stuff in the galley section, or the $12 stuff (which says right on it "good for marine stoves") in the painting section.

For my needs (a few weeks to a month of coastal cruising per year) I find alcohol stoves to be a great solution. If I were living aboard or cruising for years at a time, and had more room, a propane system would probably be worth it.


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## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Certainly be lunacy cruising anywhere without an oven. Whats the GF going to cook the bunnies in?


As you said, it depends on your own personal use. The former owners of my boat spent about 5 months living aboard each year and used the oven to store bread. And they didn't have a BBQ. They did use the 2 stove burners and leave us with recommendations for several nice restaurants, along with a few nice pots & pans. I'm fairly certain their budget allowed a lot more eating out than I could stomach.

If you're installing a propane stove, get a little "sniffer" unit that'll let you know if there's ever a leak in the cabin. The ones that beep each time you light the stove are great for getting your SO up so they can take the dog to shore while you make breakfast 

To each their own.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> So did you buy Dream Weaver? Looks nice.


While I did contemplate that one, I found one just down the coast near Ft Myers. What a smooooth sail home today!


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## tdoster (Feb 21, 2012)

seaner97 said:


> Second the insurance issue. If you're unlucky enough to blow you(and the boats around you) up but survive, I doubt your insurance will cover you (or the Hinkley you damaged ).


Insurance will cover up to your limits - period. Regardless of stupidity, which only increases rates for the rest of us.

My take on the debate is I am one who actually likes electric, but don't use the oven a whole lot (especially at sea) and still BBQ on the grill @ anchor. Underway, it seems we do an awful lot of getting from point A to point B and have to motor as ideal sailing conditions are not the norm at least for us. My theory is it is a one-stop shop for diesel when cruising and lugging a propane cylinder around with laundry and provisions takes away more of the fun - not to mention finding a filler. Running the genset to cook also charges the batteries and cool and dry things off a bit with the a/c, so we try and take advantage of that time as much as possible, or the main engine and 100 amp alt is enough to run the hotplate and microwave with the 2000 watt inverter. I also like to heat coffee and soup up prior to a passage and keep it in thermoses to stay warm, thus not having to heat up water as often. After heating it up, store it in a Pizza Delivery bag.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

tdoster said:


> Insurance will cover up to your limits - period. Regardless of stupidity, .....


Not always the case with marine policies. They can often deny coverage for improper installation or even improper maintenance. These are nasty exclusions to be well understood.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

MSter said:


> While I did contemplate that one, I found one just down the coast near Ft Myers. What a smooooth sail home today!


Might have some good news for ya...

Don's Discount in Tampa had a used propane stove the last time I was there. I bet that isn't the only one. It looked to be in good shape ad was a Princess I think (my favorite). I also bet you can find a lot of the parts you want from there and save a LOT of money. I got some things from them and it was insane price differences versus your local West Marine.

Where are you keeping your boat? We spent a lot of time in St Pete. Loved it there.

Brian

PS Definitely go propane, but do it right. If you do decide to go ahead with the camping stove, for about $15, you can get a converter to go from the little green bottles to a full sized propane bottle. You could even run an extension on it to keep it outside the boat. That is not how I would do it. Like Mark, I think do it right the first time. But we are (like Mark) live aboards so our perception on these things can be different from weekenders. I am not a fan of alcohol stoves. Too expensive and too much of a pain to get alcohol. Propane is readily available everywhere (though it can often be a walk). I have often said that cruisers covet propane more than anything because it always seems to involve a long walk or taxi ride. I cannot imagine the pain that alcohol would give!! I have never used a diesel stove, but I would research it given how we use our boat. The thought of being able to stop at any marina and get 'fuel' would be awesome... but I suspect those diesel stoves stink like the diesel heaters do. But again, I don't know.


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## tdoster (Feb 21, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Not always the case with marine policies. They can often deny coverage for improper installation or even improper maintenance. These are nasty exclusions to be well understood.


Boat sinks from a seacock or hose that broke. Any reputable insurance company will pay it regardless (to limits). Smarter companies are using the survey to request those items are repaired prior to coverage or deny coverage all together, on larger boats. They may fight you on a claim, but when pressed will pay out.

They will ALWAYS pay liability as far as the limits no matter what. They can't win a liability case against an innocent third-party regardless of what exclusions they sold you and they are required to defend you no matter what.


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## Solandri (Sep 7, 2012)

tdoster said:


> Running the genset to cook also charges the batteries and cool and dry things off a bit with the a/c, so we try and take advantage of that time as much as possible, or the main engine and 100 amp alt is enough to run the hotplate and microwave with the 2000 watt inverter.


The problem with electric heat is that a gasoline generator is only about 30% efficient, a diesel generator about 40% efficient, and there are additional conversion losses if you use an inverter or a battery. That is, of all the energy in the fuel, only about 25%-35% of it gets converted to usable electricity. The other 65%-75% of the energy in the fuel is discarded as waste heat into the sea and air, even though the whole point of this exercise is to heat up your stove or oven.

With a propane, alcohol, or natural gas stove, 100% of the energy in the fuel is converted to heat for cooking food in the stove/oven. (Some of it will end up heating the cabin instead of the food, but the same is true for electric, unless you go with induction heating.)

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to overcome this 3:1 to 4:1 efficiency advantage of propane from a financial standpoint. About the only way an electric stove/oven makes sense if your electricity is generated from solar or wind (thus avoiding the efficiency losses of the generator), or from very cheap shore power (usually hydro in the Pacific Northwest). Or if you're willing to pay extra for the simplicity of only having to haul around one type of fuel.


> I also like to heat coffee and soup up prior to a passage and keep it in thermoses to stay warm, thus not having to heat up water as often. After heating it up, store it in a Pizza Delivery bag.


A thermos is best, but if you use a lot of hot water and are regularly on shore power you can get an Asian style hot water dispenser like the Zojirushi CV-DSC40. That particular model is one of the more expensive ones, but has a vacuum chamber making it more efficient. I have one and it draws about 17 Watts to maintain 4 liters at 195 F (about 1300 Watts when heating it). They're designed so you can heat water, unplug it, and take it with you out to a picnic. So you don't necessarily have to leave it plugged if you're just out for a day cruise. The cheaper models use foam and plastic insulation, and draw about twice the wattage to maintain the water temp.


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## tdoster (Feb 21, 2012)

Solandri said:


> The problem with electric heat is that a gasoline generator is only about 30% efficient, a diesel generator about 40% efficient, and there are additional conversion losses if you use an inverter or a battery. That is, of all the energy in the fuel, only about 25%-35% of it gets converted to usable electricity. The other 65%-75% of the energy in the fuel is discarded as waste heat into the sea and air, even though the whole point of this exercise is to heat up your stove or oven.
> 
> With a propane, alcohol, or natural gas stove, 100% of the energy in the fuel is converted to heat for cooking food in the stove/oven. (Some of it will end up heating the cabin instead of the food, but the same is true for electric, unless you go with induction heating.)
> 
> It is extremely difficult if not impossible to overcome this 3:1 to 4:1 efficiency advantage of propane from a financial standpoint. About the only way an electric stove/oven makes sense if your electricity is generated from solar or wind (thus avoiding the efficiency losses of the generator), or from very cheap shore power (usually hydro in the Pacific Northwest). Or if you're willing to pay extra for the simplicity of only having to haul around one type of fuel.


Most of it depends on how you use your boat. But for us, mainly coastal and Caribbean and a motorsailor, this setup works well. If doing more offshore work it would be a different ball game.

I won't argue with the efficiency of Propane or CNG as it relates to cost per BTU compared to using a generator, but will argue with your efficiency logic as it is a segmented argument and should be linear as well as the costs @ the dock.

Efficiency in internal combustion engines as a term is based upon the amount of work achieved from a measurement of fuel. What is left over is lost to heat. So, when measuring efficiency in an internal combustion engine, we are looking at the fuel burned, how much work is produced at the shaft and how much energy is lost to heat. That would be simple MPG in a car as we just want to measure how far we got off that tank of gas.

Cost per BTU of heat is what I think you were going for, but using a percentage of 100% I don't feel is correct.

Nut is, what does it cost me to cook my dinner? If we look at the overall picture, we also have to look at the efficiency of the fuel used and give a percentage of how much of the work was applied to just cooking. As well as the other factors that we can personally assign a dollar amount to. Tongue and cheek, I personally am 50% less efficient compared to 20 years ago, thus I can put a personal value to the fact of lugging a propane bottle around trying to find someone to fill it.

But going back to the cost of BTU of heat produced. If we look at efficiency, we would have to say 100% efficient cooking would be a fuel that passes 100% of it's energy to the work of cooking the food with 0% lost to transient heat. OK, that is not possible, so we look at what does it cost me to cook my eggs and bacon in the morning and what other factors can I apply to it?

The tank that came in my boat was a 10lb tank, which is roughly 2 gallons of propane, which equates into about 200K BTU's, very simplified math. If I just use the small stove burner of 7K BTU's, I would get around 28 hours of total cooking from 2 gallons of propane (if just using the little burner on the stove). Not going to go into alcohol or using the oven - but my wife likes the way electric cooks over gas. If I were to just use the generator to cook, that would equate into 7 gallons of fuel on my 4KW Diesel @ 1/4 gallon an hour. So, apples to apples, there is no contest. Your argument wins!

That changes at the dock as you have to get into some pretty high KW rates to exceed the cost of propane. Ours is currently .12 per KW hour. Plumbed natural gas is almost always cheaper, thus the strong argument for gas @ home. So, dock is less, generator is more.

OK, so I have to go through some other factors. The generator provides much more for the work it is producing at the 1/4 gallon hour rate, from battery charging, making water, heating water, cooling, heating or drying the boat, etc. At the dock, costs are based upon KW hour, off the umbilical, based upon output and efficiency of the generator.

I think the long-winded point is there is no right or wrong answer to the question. The cost at the dock is far less for electric all things considered from experience. Each one has advantages and drawbacks and each one is also based upon personal choice and economics and how and where you plan to sail. The only natural drawback is you really need 50 amp service. If we run at 30 amps, it is really easy to push it so you have to add amps in your head and turn things on and off short of throwing breakers. And my favorite argument as a sailor. Cooking and powering the boat are not a single failure point with gas.


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## Solandri (Sep 7, 2012)

tdoster said:


> But going back to the cost of BTU of heat produced. If we look at efficiency, we would have to say 100% efficient cooking would be a fuel that passes 100% of it's energy to the work of cooking the food with 0% lost to transient heat. OK, that is not possible, so we look at what does it cost me to cook my eggs and bacon in the morning and what other factors can I apply to it?


I assumed any energy lost to transient heat while cooking (i.e. heating the air and your cabin instead of the food) would be the same for electric or propane. Since it scales the same for both types of stoves, it's not a factor. Either propane is 100% efficient and a gas generator is 25% efficient. Or propane is 50% efficient and a gas generator is 12.5% efficient. It's a 4:1 ratio either way.



> That changes at the dock as you have to get into some pretty high KW rates to exceed the cost of propane. Ours is currently .12 per KW hour. Plumbed natural gas is almost always cheaper, thus the strong argument for gas @ home. So, dock is less, generator is more.


That's a very good point, but I was trying to keep this in terms of a fuel efficiency standpoint to avoid bogging my post down with math. To convert it to cost efficiency, you need to multiply by the $ per BTU (or kWh). Or probably what's more accessible to most people, ($/gal) / (BTU/gal). The rough BTU/gal of various fuels are:

Diesel: 139,000 BTU/gal (1.39)
Gasoline: 124,000 BTU/gal (1.24)
Propane: 91,000 BTU/gal (0.91)
Nat Gas: ~1050 BTU/ cu ft (0.0105)

If diesel is $4/gal, gasoline $3.50/gal, Propane is $3/gal, and natural gas is $12 per 1000 cu ft, then you're paying:

Diesel: ($4/gal) / (1.39) = $2.88 per 100,000 BTU
Gasoline: ($3.5/gal) / (1.24) = $2.82 per 100,000 BTU
Propane: ($3/gal) / (0.91) = $3.30 per 100,000 BTU
Nat Gas: ($0.012/cuft) / (0.0105) = $1.14 per 100,000 BTU

Which explains why nobody is racing to build a propane-powered boat (it contains less energy per dollar than gas or diesel). Divide by the efficiency and you get:

Diesel = $2.88 / .35 = $8.22 per 100,000 BTU used for heating
Gasoline = $2.82 / .25 = $11.29 per 100,00 BTU used for heating
Propane: $3.30 / 1.00 = $3.30 per 100,000 BTU used for heating
Nat Gas: $1.09 / 1.00 = $1.09 per 100,000 BTU used for heating

Electricity from shore power can be generated from many sources. Hydro in particular is dirt cheap to produce (2-3 cents/kWh). Even the coal plants the power company operates are 45%-55% efficient, with their gas furnaces exceeding 60%. So shore power electricity is a lot cheaper per kWh than from running your own generator. This is the same thing that makes the economics of electric cars work. Electricity is actually a terrible way to power a car (fuel => combustion => generator => electricity => power line => car battery => motor => move car, compared to fuel => combustion => transmission => move car). But the power company's generators are a lot more efficient than your car engine, and coal/nat gas is a lot cheaper than gasoline. And as a result the cost of the electricity needed to drive an electric car 1 mile ends up being about 1/3rd what it would cost in gasoline.

If we convert a typical 11 cents/kWh to the same units as above (29.3 kWh per 100,000 BTU), we get:

($0.11/kWh) * (29.3) = $3.22 per 100,000 BTU used for heating

So shore power does slightly edge out propane for heating. Normalizing these against propane, you get:

Diesel: 2.49x
Gasoline: 3.42x
Propane: 1.00x
Nat Gas: 0.35x
Shore power: 0.98x

Substitute your own local prices for the different fuels into the math above to find out how they stack up locally. The math is just straight multiplication and division so goes into a spreadsheet easily. (Bear in mind the efficiency figures for diesel and gasoline are rough averages, so diesel is probably more like 2-3x more expensive than propane, and gasoline 3-4x more expensive.)


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Can't image not having a stove on a sailboat. If living on land and just doing brief cruising you can prepare meals, freeze them and then just heat them up when needed. When doing passages this becomes even more important. When living aboard for any period the smell of "something in the oven" just makes your day.
Would suggest when doing your propane get at least a three burner. More cooktop space keeps the food in the pan not on the sole even when using just one burner. With three + burners you can cook a real meal in a reasonable time.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Well...both luck and timing are on my side! My new slip neighbor purchased an OI41 just a few days after I purchased mine. He is wanting to get rid of the alcohol stove and has offered to swap for my electric. This will give me an opportunity to try out the alcohol stove with no outlay of $$$!. Should this not work out for us, I can go propane. Is crazy how things work out sometimes......



Cruisingdad said:


> Might have some good news for ya...
> 
> Don's Discount in Tampa had a used propane stove the last time I was there. I bet that isn't the only one. It looked to be in good shape ad was a Princess I think (my favorite). I also bet you can find a lot of the parts you want from there and save a LOT of money. I got some things from them and it was insane price differences versus your local West Marine.
> 
> ...


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