# anyone know how to fix a keel?



## Alexandria Ham (Mar 22, 2019)

Greetings all,

I recently ran my beloved Creekmore 30' sloop onto the reef and did a great disservice to both the keel and rudder. She is now on the hard at the St. Croix marina (USVI). My major concern is the keel. The status of the keel bolts is somewhat uncertain. The keel is loose, but it is suspected that the bolts pulled through the lead a bit as they do not appear to have broken from the inside. 

To say I would greatly advice in how to go about fixing this keel or finding someone who can is a great understatement. The only other option I see is trying to find a similar keel from a salvage.

Thank you for your time.
Cheers, Alex


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Wow. That looks brutal. If the j-bolts loosened in the lead, they'll need to be recast, along with casting back the destroyed part of the keel. It would be silly not to just replace the bolts at that point. One has to assume that kind of impact has done damage to the hull as well, particularly the grid holding the keel on. If the rudder took the same kind of damage, I assume that's ugly too. I can't help but wonder if that could possibly be cost effective and whether the boat is economically totaled. Very sorry.

What actually happened?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

You state that the keel is loose. The ONLY way that I would proceed is to DROP THE KEEL and fully assess the damage to the keel AND the hull. From the looks of it, that keel may need to be re-cast.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Given all that damage, I would have to ask if you've had a professional look at the bottom of the hull, where I'd expect there has been structural damage. And then, if the keel is moving because the bolts have pulled up (or more likely the hull is damaged and displaced) one might have to condemn all the keel bolts since there is no telling how badly stressed or cracked they may be as well.

That could mean hull repairs, a new rudder and rudder tube (or however it is attached) as well as trying to locate a new keel. You could try to roll the dice, hammer/melt out the keel damage, tighten up the existing bolts and sister in new ones, and if the hull somehow isn't drastically damaged, that might do the trick. It still won't be cheap or easy.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm guessing that your only option from St Croix is to ship her back to the states for the repairs if a survey warrants repairing the boat at all.
Sorry, I feel for you.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

eherlihy said:


> You state that the keel is loose. The ONLY way that I would proceed is to DROP THE KEEL and fully assess the damage to the keel AND the hull. From the looks of it, that keel may need to be re-cast.


Quite agree. I would also have a surveyor check to make sure the structural parts supporting the hull are not damaged.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Can it go to Sopers or Spanish on one of those small ships with the ramp up front? Would look into that after having a survey to see if it’s worth the cost. Unfortunately maybe totaled.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Hang on....

Is the hull sound? Can the boat be motored to a shipyard and hauled? If so can the keel be dropped, repaired and or replaced? If there is damage to the floors or bulkheads etc... can they be repaired?

depending on the insurance... it may not warrant a complete write off.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Aren't Creekmore's semi-homemade boats? Owner finished or some such. I really don't know what the OP's boat is work, but I'll bet it's sub $15k in top shape. 

I was trying to let them down slowly, but frankly, I see no way it will be worth repairing the keel, rudder and hull. Real bummer. 

Insurance money would buy a better boat, if there was any. I suspect there wasn't any or the insurance surveyor hasn't been buy yet with the bad news.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Aren't Creekmore's semi-homemade boats? Owner finished or some such. I really don't know what the OP's boat is work, but I'll bet it's sub $15k in top shape.
> 
> I was trying to let them down slowly, but frankly, I see no way it will be worth repairing the keel, rudder and hull. Real bummer.
> 
> Insurance money would buy a better boat, if there was any. I suspect there wasn't any or the insurance surveyor hasn't been buy yet with the bad news.


Well yes... depends on the value of the boat to begin with.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

SanderO said:


> Well yes... depends on the value of the boat to begin with.


There was a 1974 Creekmore 30 for sale in FL over a year ago. Don't know if it sold, but asking was $5K. Hard to imagine the cost of a proper repair to the OP's boat is justified.


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## Alexandria Ham (Mar 22, 2019)

thank you all for the good advice. You are correct, the boat is not worth much, so expense repair options do not make sense. So, here is what I'm thinking right now: instead of dropping the keel, which I agree would be the prudent thing, I may go in the opposite direction and see if I can tighten it up to the haul. If I can then presumably the bolts are in good shape. Then I'll just cut off and or pound back the misplaced keel led and build it back up and shape it again with fiberglass. The haul is scraped all over and has two fist size crush spots. I'll fix these, but honestly the hull really does appear to be sound. 

Hopefully the keel had more weight than it really needed and a slightly shorter/ lighter keel wont make a significant difference in the sailing. Fixing this on the cheap means the difference between having a boat or not, so I figure I've got to give it a try. 

So, how bad is this plan? 


Thanks, Alex


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It seems your decision making is being influenced by your comment that you either have this boat or no boat. Sorry to hear that. 

Unfortunately, there is no logic that concludes with the bolts being okay, just because they tighten. The mating surfaces of that keel had to take some damage, it’s just a question of how much. I’m concerned you don’t want to see it. 

Obviously, fiberglass won’t replace the ballast, just the shape. I have no idea what that will mean for sailing characteristics. 

How’s the rudder and it’s linkage?


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

to be blunt with more good advice, if the keel falls off people could die. a keel will hang there all day long with cracked keel bolts but when you put on some sailing loads is when they could let go.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

So here's the real problem with going in the "opposite direction". Let's say you can tighten up the bolts and fair everything up so that the boat looks good. A year from now, or at some time, those bolts - or the support members - could let go at a bad time, like during a blow. Maybe someone else has bought the boat by that time. At any rate, this boat will have a hidden weakness that could cause loss of life! Yes, keels have come off, and yes, that has killed people. 

Safety and ethics would lead me to think that it should be fixed correctly, or not at all. Sorry for your dilemma.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

How / Where do you sail? The hull to keel joint is kind of important to the operation of the vessel...

If you hug the coast and have a reliable dinghy and working reliable handheld VHF (because you may find yourself unexpectedly swimming), then your plan may be OK.

If you are planning on island hopping, fuggedaboudit (see U.S. Code Title 46. SHIPPING Subtitle II. Vessels and Seamen Part B. Inspection and Regulation of Vessels Chapter 43. RECREATIONAL VESSELS Section 4308. Termination of unsafe operation).

I can't imagine any insurance company granting you a policy, so *you* will be liable for any environmental damage done if *your* vessel sinks or becomes disabled. Also, without insurance, you probably can't stay in a marina.

I think that you can see where this is going.


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## chowdan (Nov 11, 2015)

Please don't take the "opposite" route. 

I am guessing you don't have insurance, hence why you are looking for alternative methods to fixing the boat. 

Drop the keel - period. 

Asses the damage that has been done to the keel, the bolts, and the hull. 

Fix the damage to the hull yourself, spend the money to have the keel recasted or tap in new bolts. 

You are risking not just your own life, but other lives can be at stake.


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## Alexandria Ham (Mar 22, 2019)

Thank you all for the advice. You've convinced me I need to drop the keel to asses the damage, but now I'm a little paranoid that there will be hidden damage. In other words, when the keel is dropped, how easy is it to see / evaluate the damage to the hull and bolts? I will get an inspector to look at it, but seriously how reliable is this? 

Moving forward, if the haul base plate and bolts are deemed salvageable, I am going to try to reattach and reshape the keel. I just don't see any other economically feasible option.

One again, thank you all, I really appreciate and clearly need this sounding board.

Cheers, Alex


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

That sounds like a MUCH better plan. 

If the vessel is repairable, take the opportunity to beef up the keel stub while the keel is off the vessel.

Reshaping the keel is do-able. Lead is very malleable and melts at a relatively low temperature, so you may be able to rework it using relatively available tools for a DIY.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I’m afraid you will be throwing good money after bad. Unless you want to keep the boat for sentimental reasons, fixing it does not seem to make economic sense. These are not simple repairs, neither they are inexpensive. You might be able to make some money parting out this boat and selling keel for scrap. Best of luck, whatever you decide.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

That's not going to buff out.

The ugliest part of the damage could be invisible.

Before you spend much on this, maybe think through the decisions you will need to make, and some "walk away" criteria. Decide on how much you are willing to spend to investigate, and how much to repair.

This is how I would approach it:
1. Get an informed/professional assessment of the hull and keel stub before you drop the keel, also get a rough estimate on reshaping and finishing the keel (can't get a full assessment without examining the bolts). If it all seems within budget, drop the keel; 
2. Professional assessment of the keel stub. If it can't be fixed, you're done. If it can be fixed;
3. Professional assessment of the keel bolts and scope of repair. If still within budget;
4. Assess reshaping and refinishing the keel, then putting her back together.

Each step has a cost, and an associated decision. The way I see it, the keel stub is the deal breaker. If the damage there exceeds your resources, that's the end. Stop throwing money at it.

So sorry you are facing this.


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