# New sailor looking for boat buying advice



## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Hello all.

My plan is to buy a bluewater cruising boat some time next year. For now, I'm doing research, planning, etc. My budget is probably going to be about $50,000.

I'm going to be in Fort Lauderdale in early Nov. Plan to do a bunch of research. One of the things I'm trying to get a handle on a brokers. Can I/should I try to work with a broker for something in the $50,000 range? Does anyone know a broker that I can trust? Recommendations, links to other threads, general advice are all encouraged.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I trust this man totally. He was my buyer's agent. Fair, honest and reliable.

Charles Kotovic, Wisconsin, 262/369-5029, cellular 414/350-8505 or e-mail: [email protected]


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

The real question is: how are you going to use the boat? Secondly: how much "sweat equity" are you willing to put in? For that kind of money you can certainly find something and with a bit of work something quite nice. If it were me, I'd look for something around 30 ft and I'd reserve $20K for fixing things, adding things, possibly new sails. Depends a lot oh how many people will be on this boat; if it were JUST me, I'd probably go with smaller, if it's you and a partner and kids, obviously space helps. Good luck!


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## Ruudco (Oct 25, 2016)

My boat was just demolished in hurricane Matthew and I am looking for a new partner to invest in/buy an ocean going sailboat to cruise the Caribbean and the East Coast. My demolished boat was a Pearson 36-2 and was great for those purposes. Let me know if you want to discuss further.


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## Scott Johnson (Oct 18, 2016)

Sweat equity is such an apt term . Priceless


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## jackdaw (Nov 21, 2010)

What is your:

REFIT budget
ANNUAL operational budget?


Purchase price is an non-recurring expense and just part of the TCO.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Pendragon35 said:


> The real question is: how are you going to use the boat? Secondly: how much "sweat equity" are you willing to put in? For that kind of money you can certainly find something and with a bit of work something quite nice. If it were me, I'd look for something around 30 ft and I'd reserve $20K for fixing things, adding things, possibly new sails. Depends a lot oh how many people will be on this boat; if it were JUST me, I'd probably go with smaller, if it's you and a partner and kids, obviously space helps. Good luck!


I intend to live aboard the boat with the eventual goal of ocean crossings.

I'm willing to put quite a bit of sweat into the boat. In fact, I'm looking forward to it.

I'm targeting something in the 35' - 45' range. From what I've seen, anything smaller than 36' seems like it might be too cramped to live aboard, and anything over 45' just seems too big to justify.

My total budget to seaworthiness is $50k. So if the boat will need $20k of work, it needs to cost about $30k.

It will just be me living on the boat. I would like to have space for visitors, though.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

jackdaw said:


> What is your:
> 
> REFIT budget
> ANNUAL operational budget?
> ...


As mentioned. $50k is my total budget to seaworthiness (i.e. purchase + refit).

Operational budget is unknowable, as I'll have to switch jobs to make the move onboard. That part is just one of those risks I'll have to deal with when the time comes.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

BillMoran said:


> Operational budget is unknowable, as I'll have to switch jobs to make the move onboard. That part is just one of those risks I'll have to deal with when the time comes.


You might want to research the costs to "park" your boat. Slip (vs. mooring) fees can be substantial, but may be well worth it for a live-aboard (access to electricity, water, convenience for going ashore). Depends on where you end up, which may include added costs for live-aboards (check other threads on SN).

Costs will also be dependent on boat length. In our area, a rule of thumb for in-season slip fees is $100/ft and >$50/ft for winter storage (obviously not your concern, but you'll have to figure out year round costs.)

Another boat size issue is the presumably additional maintenance costs when there are more parts and equipment on the 45 footer compared to the 35 footer. There will be more rigging and heavier (more expensive) hardware, like winches, on the bigger boat. The sails will be bigger ($$) and there is likely more plumbing (extra head?), and so forth.

So,your operational costs are "unknowable"? You need to do some research on this before you take the leap, IMHO.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm coming from the perspective of former full time live aboard. I think you are on the right track for the most part.

One thing I'm questioning a bit is your size requirements. 45' is a big boat to single hand and an expensive boat to maintain.

I owned two live aboard sailboats. The first was when I was single. She was 30'. She was plenty big enough for a single guy and a dog. Private V-Birth cabin forward, private head with a real door. Main salon had a couch, a table that could comfortably sit 4, a quarter birth and a small galley. 

The boat was small enough that I took it everywhere. If I needed a trip to the beer store, I didn't walk, I took the boat to a dock near the beer store, same thing for groceries.

When my wife moved aboard with me, I upsized to a 35, which was plenty big enough for the two of us. Then my son was born and there were 3 of us. She was still plenty big enough.

The full time live aboard sailboats at my marina consisted of the following: An Alberg 30, my Fantasia 35, a hunter 38, a Saga 43 and a Gulfstar 43. All but the Alberg 30 were either couples or families with children. 

I can't think of any reason you would want to go over 35'.

I agree with above, living at a slip is much easier and much safer than living at an anchor. Live aboard while working is different from cruising and comes with its own set of challenges.

Edit: with regards to your initial question about whether you should work with a buyers broker on a $30000 ish boat, I think that really depends on you.

If you are knowledgeable enough and are willing to put in the leg work yourself, you probably don't need one (I've never used one). Most people would recommend at least a survey, you'll probably need it for insurance purposes any way.

In terms of working with sellers brokers, for sure, I wouldn't rule out any boat, for sale by owner and for sale by broker are both good options IMO.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

fallard said:


> You might want to research the costs to "park" your boat. Slip (vs. mooring) fees can be substantial,.


I have yet to find living aboard in any marina to be more expensive than living ashore.
For instance;
Living aboard a 53' boat in downtown Charleston was about us$750.00 a month which included parking. Water/elec/internet etc. are about the same as ashore or even slightly less.
Living aboard in the Las Olas Isles in Ft Lauderdale was also considerably cheaper than a tiny apartment ashore in the same neighborhood.
Both areas were safe and secure, not some ghetto, with shopping conveniently located.
Knowing the local tax structure is also an important consideration when choosing a place to live aboard. As my primary residence, my taxes in Charleston on the boat were a fraction of what one would pay on a home or apartment rental. Not so much in Fla, where there are no property taxes, but there are taxes on your boat.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bill-
Fort Lauderdale is a fairly unique place for sailing. The problem is, there were something like 35,000 docks and slips in Broward County and twice as many registered small craft, so places to keep a boat (wet or dry, whatever size) are fiercely competed for. You've got upscale marinas on the ICW which can literally be ten minutes from a cut straight out into the Atlantic, which is great if you're taking off for a week or two, or just going out dayfishing frequently, and can pay the premium prices.
If you don't pay top dollar, almost anything else is "have I got a deal for you!" at a private dock behind a residence, or, any other commercial marina, which may be only 2-5 miles from the ocean, but that will be more than an hour away because of the maze of bridges and odd waterways and "no wake" zones.
So, there are plenty of boats and plenty of places to keep them. But if you go up the coast, north of the Palm Beaches, rates become more reasonable.
In any case, hurricane season formally runs until Nov.30th and restarts June 1st, and your insurer will expect a steep fee if your boat is in FL during that time.


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## elliowb (Jun 8, 2015)

Although I've done a reasonable amount of sailing prior to buying my first cruising boat, most of that experience was on non-production type boats. So I had very limited first-hand knowledge of various builders/designers as well as the quality trade-offs. My buyers broker was very helpful and did a lot of leg work to help me get up to speed quickly.

He set up all the appointments for me and was also a great deal of help on the process and in closing the deal. I don't know anyone in FL but if you're anywhere near Chicago, John Jirsa at Larsen Marine is the broker that I worked with. I'd recommend him highly. I live in Cleveland, and was looking around the Great Lakes so John knew many of the yards around the area. That was helpful, but he also helped me to narrow down the field of boats to something that was right for me.

I suspect that someone with more experience could easily go without a broker, but for me it was very useful.


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