# Incinerator toilets



## Petertherock (Aug 20, 2017)

One of the things I have been thinking about a lot is the toilet situation on a boat. Being in the northeast with the cold winters most places don't have winter pump outs. This means you either have to use the marina toilets all the time or up until now needed a composting toilet. 

I have heard the Traditional marine heads with holding tanks are stinky and require a lot of maintenance. Composting toilets aren't very attractive having to shovel out the compost material and emptying a urine jug every few days. So now I discovered another option. The incinerating toilets. They are Coastguard approved and good for land and sea use. They actually burn the waste and there is no chemicals, no water, no odor. They are more expensive but over the course of time they will be worth it from what I see. 

Has anyone used one of these on here? Are they really as good as they seem?


----------



## Petertherock (Aug 20, 2017)

Here is a web site to take a look at them...

https://incinolet.com/product-category/toilets/


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Is that the same as pooping in a beer can and dropping a match in after? I've done that plenty - while I was stationed in Siberia.


----------



## CrispyCringle (Jul 30, 2017)

Manual says 1.5-2 KW per cycle. Primarily a shore power toilet?


----------



## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

OP -the incinerator heads are primarily big boat items. As you will find out, they need a fair amount of electricity. And they still require maintenance and repair.

Composting toilets, when installed and used correctly are a viable option, shovel not required, but you do need to deal with the liquids - they work their magic better when drier.

As to marine holding tanks being "stinky" and requiring a lot of maintenance, while not as simple to use and maintain as a shoreside toilet, they can be almost stink free and very little maintenance, when the system works.

There are other systems from Raritan that work well and are designed for smaller boats and lesser electrical needs. 

Bests


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Incinerating_Toilet_Destroilet.php

They work on LP Gas or Diesel - no electricity required.

Gary


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Gary get a 404 on that link


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Try it again, I think I was able to fix the link.

Gary


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I like the idea of incinerating toilets, but have only ever heard of electric versions. I looked up Incinolet and they only seem to offer an electric version. I wonder if the gas version is no longer being made? A propane version might make sense for small boats like ours. Otherwise the power consumption is beyond what most cruising sailboats can reasonably manage.

According to their website require a 20 amp current and run off 120 volt system. A burn cycle consumes "One kilowatt hour per cycle, approximately.” That’s a lot of power just to deal with your poop.

I’d reconsider the composting head if I were you Peter


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Mike, there was a 50-foot powerboat in our marina that had a Destroilet that ran on propane. But, that was 15 years ago, and I don't know if the company still makes that model. Also heard of one that ran on diesel, too.

All the best,

Gary


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> Mike, there was a 50-foot powerboat in our marina that had a Destroilet that ran on propane. But, that was 15 years ago, and I don't know if the company still makes that model. Also heard of one that ran on diesel, too.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Gary


Yeah, I can see it working on something like that - where power production is no issue. Just can't see how a smallish cruising boat, especially a sailboat, could ever keep up with that kind of electrical demand.

BTW, diesel would be awesome, but how would that even work? You'd need an igniter like propane or alcohol, or you'd need high pressure. Again, I can't see either system being viable for smallish cruising boats. Big boat, sure, but not boats like ours.

BTW, we finally made it to Newfoundland. So I'm getting closer to you &#8230; At this rate I should make it down your way in 5 or 6 years . Better keep that beer chilling' :2 boat:.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Pete-
The Incinolets are used on Alaskan fishing fleets, where stuff either works or gets ripped out real fast.
The scary thing is, you're sitting on an electric incinerator. You know.
The good thing is that you're not sitting on it when it is running, normally. Although you can. And it only take an hour to turn one load into some white ash that can be tossed into the trash, or overboard, every couple of days. DO NOT confuse the paper liners with your coffee filters, they won't taste the same. Although you can use coffee filters if you run out of paper liners.(G)
Now here's the problem for most boaters. Incinolet take roughly one kilowatt hour, one thousand watts for a one-hour cycle, every time you cycle it. So for most of us, that would mean either a damned big battery bank (and no chili dinners) or shorepower.
If you have shorepower, and can afford the upfront price, it is one damn nice clean way to go. No pun intended.
A composting toilet isn't going to compost, it only dessicates, so you've still got a bucket of sanitary waste, and that won't decompose at all unless it can stay warm enough. New England winters might push that, dunno. 
Meanwhile, in case of emergency you can always use a 5-gallon bucket, some cheap plastic bags, and you throw a handful of cheap clay kitty litter in the bottom after each use. That also dessicates waste and stops any stink. Stack up four or five, then just remove one and tie it off after use. For "emergency" use? Yeah, that'll buy you time, easy handling, no odor, cheap.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

What does your boat have in it now? Most have holding tanks and if managed properly should never stink. Especially if you live aboard, as it will be used regularly. If it's already been abused, then hoses probably need to be replaced and then proper procedure followed. They are simply not the same as flushing your home toilet, but most treat them that way. Plenty of clear flushing water to clear the lines and proper ventilation of the holding tank and you're aces.

It's that time of year where we don't know if we'll be off the dock again before haulout. Most likely we will, but we limit the use of our holding tank, just in case. We find going to shore for #2, typically once per day, is no big deal. Urinating into the tank is the absolute least of holding tank management issues, which we then don't run back and forth to do. You don't want solids to settle in the tank over long periods of time, especially if the boat is sitting still.

I can't imagine a Northeast marina that permitted winter live aboards that didn't provide for pumpout services. That seems illogical and likely to draw the scorn of the environmental agencies. On the other hand, those that I'm familiar with do so on a strict schedule, about once per week. Sometimes you have to plumb an extra hose from your pumpout to a more convenient location near the dock.

Incinerating heads seem like a sledge hammer for a small tack. Composting heads have their place, but you've identified one of the draw backs, having to carry your pee ashore. Try to explain to your next date you have aboard how that works.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Lately there have been quite a few composting toilets you could have had for free, according to posts from the people throwing them away. Those folks just wanted the damn things gone and weren't even trying to get any money for them. I've heard nothing but bad things about them from those who have tried to cruise with them. It seems finding and storing the right kind of peat can be a problem for cruisers, as well. Carrying and using the liners is a major negative for me, as well.
I just cannot imagine having to try to keep the solids and liquids separate when the boat is beating for any length of time, at sea. I would like nothing better than to raise a one finger salute to the USCG when it came to my toilets on a boat, but I do not believe composting heads are the answer.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Mike, unfortunately, at least for me, I will not likely be here in 5 or 6 years. I have a terminal illness, asbestosis, which has forced me to stop sailing and put the boat up for sale. 

Gettin' old ain't fer wimps and sissies, 

Gary


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

capta said:


> Lately there have been quite a few composting toilets you could have had for free, according to posts from the people throwing them away. Those folks just wanted the damn things gone and weren't even trying to get any money for them. I've heard nothing but bad things about them from those who have tried to cruise with them. It seems finding and storing the right kind of peat can be a problem for cruisers, as well. Carrying and using the liners is a major negative for me, as well.
> I just cannot imagine having to try to keep the solids and liquids separate when the boat is beating for any length of time, at sea. I would like nothing better than to raise a one finger salute to the USCG when it came to my toilets on a boat, but I do not believe composting heads are the answer.


Wow, you'll have to point me to those threads Capta, b/c I've not seen them. I think I've heard of exactly three people who have decided a composter was the wrong choice. The vast majority of the people I talk to who have tried them love them - I being one.

I live and cruise with a composting head (Nature's Head). It's been great for us. I think it's the best head for a cruising couple on a smallish boat.

BTW, no liners needed. And I carry enough coir (not peat) for over six months in the space of a standard bucket. Seperating liquids from solids takes zero effort - things just go where they're supposed to by design.

Seriously &#8230; you gotta point out all these free composting heads, or places where people who have actually had and used them are speaking negatively about them. I've never seen any of this.

BTW, the vast majority of negative comments I read about them come from people who have never cruised with one. For some reason this topic seems to bring out a lot of uniformed opinion.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> Mike, unfortunately, at least for me, I will not likely be here in 5 or 6 years. I have a terminal illness, asbestosis, which has forced me to stop sailing and put the boat up for sale.
> 
> Gettin' old ain't fer wimps and sissies,
> 
> Gary


Yes, I've been following your posts Gary. Very sorry to hear this news. I still hope we connect one of these years. And more importantly, I hope you keep posting here. I always enjoy your thoughts.


----------



## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

MikeOReilly said:


> Wow, you'll have to point me to those threads Capta, b/c I've not seen them. I think I've heard of exactly three people who have decided a composter was the wrong choice. The vast majority of the people I talk to who have tried them love them - I being one.
> 
> I live and cruise with a composting head (Nature's Head). It's been great for us. I think it's the best head for a cruising couple on a smallish boat.
> 
> ...


I don't have a composting head on a boat (yet), but I do have a C-Head in the travel trailer I live in when working. I couldn't be more pleased with how well it works.

It also allows me to rent a trailer space right on the Colorado River, that has power and water but no sewer hookup. The lack of sewer makes the spot a hundred bucks a month less than the next cheapest ones in the resort, even though it's right on the riverbank. Between the C-Head, showering at work and using disposable plates and silverware, I've been there since November without having to hook up and drive out to empty my holding tanks.

I originally bought the C-Head for the boat I'm still planning to build, and installed it in my old RV as a test run. It worked out so well that when I moved into a shiny new trailer, it came with me. Guess I'll have to buy another one for the boat...


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

MikeOReilly said:


> Seriously &#8230; you gotta point out all these free composting heads, or places where people who have actually had and used them are speaking negatively about them. I've never seen any of this.


I can not send you to any links. I wasn't supposed to be privy to the posts. However, there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads. Everything from flies and smell, and the problem of keeping solids and liquids apart when the boat is heeled over. As I said in my post I would do almost anything to give the USCG a one fingered salute when it comes to MSD's, but not at the negatives those toilets seem to have.
You seem to be one of the very few cruisers who like them.


----------



## Deina (Aug 28, 2017)

> I wasn't supposed to be privy to the posts. However, there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads.


I didn't know that SailNet even had a Top Secret area! What will the feds think up next?

But surely you can post a couple links to the open forums that you describe. I'd like to get my hands on a couple of those free heads -- one for our yurt & one for the boat!


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

capta said:


> I can not send you to any links. I wasn't supposed to be privy to the posts. However, there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads. Everything from flies and smell, and the problem of keeping solids and liquids apart when the boat is heeled over. As I said in my post I would do almost anything to give the USCG a one fingered salute when it comes to MSD's, but not at the negatives those toilets seem to have.
> You seem to be one of the very few cruisers who like them.


Notwithstanding your access to inaccessible posts (which I don't really understand), please point to these "numerous complaints on several open forums."

As a long-time compost user I'm always interested in these kinds of threads, so I likely participate in most that come up here on SN and CF. Your characterization is simply wrong, according to the info I see and read. This is why I'm asking you to support your assertion. Perhaps I'm wrong.

What I see on these open forums is the vast, vast majority of actual users expressing general satisfaction for their composters over traditional marine heads. Like I said, I've run across exactly three people who have used them, and then decided to go back. So where are these scores of dissatisfied users?

What I often do see is a lot of uninformed criticism from people who have never owned or cruised with one, and often from people who have never even used one. But from actual owners and users, the reality is there are very few dissatisfied folk.

There certainly are challenges and downsides to these heads. And fly infestations are a problem. But this doesn't translate into large numbers of users abandoning them due to these challenges.

BTW, out of interest I just did a search on eBay for used composting heads. Could not find a single one being offered for sale. There are a few new ones being offered by resellers, but I can't find all these disgruntled users who want to get rid of their composters.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Any chance that composters do not perform the same in year round high heat and humidity, versus a northern climate? When I'm sailing down south, the cabin needs to be closed up routinely (for security purposes) and will easily get well over 100 degrees F for hours, while we're away. Everyday. 

I have certainly read of more than one who have torn them out on this forum. I'm not saying they are the majority or that composters are bad, just that they aren't right for everyone. 

While I've not cruised with one, I've certainly used them. Mostly in mountainous hiking situations, where septics were not available or possible. At the least, they are a camping-like solution. That works for some, not others.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Any chance that composters do not perform the same in year round high heat and humidity, versus a northern climate? When I'm sailing down south, the cabin needs to be closed up routinely (for security purposes) and will easily get well over 100 degrees F for hours, while we're away. Everyday.
> 
> I have certainly read of more than one who have torn them out on this forum. I'm not saying they are the majority or that composters are bad, just that they aren't right for everyone.
> 
> While I've not cruised with one, I've certainly used them. Mostly in mountainous hiking situations, where septics were not available or possible. At the least, they are a camping-like solution. That works for some, not others.


The local environment certainly has an impact, but in my experience it is the temperature that is the biggest determining factor. The last two years I was cruising in the 1000-Islands area, which gets hot and humid (30+C temps are common, and humidex into the 40s are not uncommon). My composter loves these conditions. Remember, these heads are all vented to the outside via a small fan (at least Nature's and Air &#8230; C-head is not necessarily so). So humidity is no problem, and heat is great. It is the cold temps where it suffers. I've noticed this now that we're back in colder waters (Newfoundland). But it's still working fine.

Yes &#8230; I've heard of three people who have reversed their choice and back to a standard head. Is there more? Like I say, I tend to participate in most of these kinds of threads, so I believe I'm represented this number accurately.

These heads are definitely not for everyone. They come with their own challenges and learning curve. It's not 'flush-and'forget', and they don't work for full-time crew beyond three people. But they come with many benefits which, in my opinion, make them the best choice for two-person crews on smallish sailboats.

Were the heads you used on hikes the separator-type we're talking about? I've certainly used my share of composting heads on land and in the back country, but I've never seen a separator-style in use in these settings. There are other types of composters which don't require separation of urine and feces. These are the common ones used on land.

Sun Mar does make a marine/RV version of this type of head. I seriously considered this one, but it is (was?) only rated for one to two adults, full time. It also requires a lot more power.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

BTW, some people think composters are fringe or uncommon. I conducted a poll on CF a few months ago to try and get data on this question. Turned out nearly 1/4 of responders have composters on board, which was a lot higher than I expected.

I know &#8230; lots of challenges with this poll. Not statistically sound, but it does give some picture of what cruisers (this was on Cruisers Forum) are actually using.

My bet is these numbers will grow as laws get tighter and cruisers increasingly discover the benefits of these types of heads.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Deina said:


> I didn't know that SailNet even had a Top Secret area! What will the feds think up next?
> 
> But surely you can post a couple links to the open forums that you describe. I'd like to get my hands on a couple of those free heads -- one for our yurt & one for the boat!


I didn't say sailnet had any such thing.
Those folks threw their composting heads in the garbage. I'm sure you could go to the dump and try to find them, but it's been some months since I read about the last one going, so it might take some digging.


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Mike 
Found your last post interesting. Been going back and forth between New England and Caribbean for a few years now. Socializing seen a fair number of boats. Have yet to see a single boat with any type of composting head. Not one. Do see boats with no holding tank which pisses me off but law down there allows.
Smell- use fresh water or add aerobic bacteria 
Number of people- no issue 
Ease- no trying to dump the pee pot in a seaway.
Parts of med don't even allow grey water discharge. Current MSDs are all inadequate. Some cruisers find a nice deserted spot and with a watermaker don't move until the food runs out. Some areas don't have suitable composting material readily available or if so finding it when you don't speak the local language can be difficult.
Really like the idea of the incinerator head. Wish there one that was in production and ran on diesel. Believe ferries, cruise ships and big fish boats have them. 
Or even better solar/heat pump. In the house have solar hot water. By itself it gets the water too damn hot. Actually cold water is mixed in. Wonder about a small holding tank coupled with another chamber. That chamber having a heat exchange loop heated by combination of engine waste heat, solar, hydronic boat heater and electric heat pump to incinerating temperatures or at least complete dehydration. One could use HCl as sterilizer to pretreat effluent as is done in lectrosans devices if incinerating temperatures not feasible.It would have fairly low energy requirements. Output be sterilized so could be used in clambed areas and not take up a huge amount of room. Additional supplies not necessary and dumping the blocks of dehydrated waste or ash not problematic even when its bumpy. 
Just thinking.


----------



## Deina (Aug 28, 2017)

capta said:


> I didn't say sailnet had any such thing.
> Those folks threw their composting heads in the garbage. I'm sure you could go to the dump and try to find them, but it's been some months since I read about the last one going, so it might take some digging.


But you *still* can't post any references to back you up... :yawn:


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

outbound said:


> Mike
> Found your last post interesting. Been going back and forth between New England and Caribbean for a few years now. Socializing seen a fair number of boats. Have yet to see a single boat with any type of composting head. Not one. Do see boats with no holding tank which pisses me off but law down there allows.
> Smell- use fresh water or add aerobic bacteria
> Number of people- no issue
> ...


Yeah, I really like the idea of an incinerator as well. I looked hard at them when deciding to make the change, but it's the power consumption that kills it for me. On a bigger power boat I think it would be the cat's-meow.

I too was surprised at the high number of compost users my poll turned up. I expected the number to be somewhere around maybe 10% at the most. CF users skew heavily to American east coasters, so perhaps that explains it. Regardless, they're certainly a lot more common than I thought.

I've met hundreds of fellow cruisers. Except in rare occasions, I have no idea what heads the vast majority of these boats have. It's not really something that comes up in my conversation. I do know in a previous yacht club there were three others out of about ~30 cruising boats, which is why I thought 10% seemed reasonable.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Deina said:


> But you *still* can't post any references to back you up... :yawn:


Then go buy one and if you like it fine, I'm happy for you. I just posted a warning based on posts I've read and have no reason to lie: I do not sell marine toilets.
As for posting links, if you are that interested why not just use the search function on this or any other boating site? I'm in the yard right now and have neither the time, nor the inclination, to spend any of my time going and finding posts that are months and years old.
Oh yeah, get some sleep. You sound tired.


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Beer runs through me.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Really like the idea of the incinerator head. Wish there one that was in production and ran on diesel."
Well, they can all run on diesel. You just need to massage that diesel through a genset or the main engine first, to convert it to electricity.(G)
Running one directly on any flame would be very much like having a real crematorium on board the boat. Or a couple of acetylene torches running in the head, requiring some proactive ventilation while that was going on. Compared to that, having what is basically a small potter's kiln running, seems like a better way to go. Although it pretty much compels something like a very robust solar+lithium power bank system, to ensure a couple of kilowatt hours could be routinely cycled every day.
Solution like Lectrosan and HCl disinfection somehow never were accepted for NDZs in the US, so there may be some reason (or fantasy) that already makes that entire concept one that won't fly. As opposed to the Incinolet, where the "product" is no longer sewage, treated or untreated, in any form.


----------



## Deina (Aug 28, 2017)

capta said:


> Then go buy one and if you like it fine, I'm happy for you. I just posted a warning based on posts I've read and have no reason to lie: I do not sell marine toilets.
> As for posting links, if you are that interested why not just use the search function on this or any other boating site? I'm in the yard right now and have neither the time, nor the inclination, to spend any of my time going and finding posts that are months and years old.
> Oh yeah, get some sleep. You sound tired.


You're the one making the premise that you've "heard nothing but bad things about them from those who have tried to cruise with them" and that "there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads."

You made the argument, so it's up to you to support it. Otherwise I can only assume you're just blowing smoke.

BTW: do you really think that posts that are "years old" would have much relevance to this discussion? Technology does advance!


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Deina said:


> You're the one making the premise that you've "heard nothing but bad things about them from those who have tried to cruise with them" and that "there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads."
> 
> You made the argument, so it's up to you to support it. Otherwise I can only assume you're just blowing smoke.
> BTW: do you really think that posts that are "years old" would have much relevance to this discussion? Technology does advance!


I am *not making any argument, only passing on information. If you don't believe it, then you go satisfy yourself, because I REALLY DON'T CARE. 
Wow, so what you are saying is that information more than X minutes old is completely irrelevant? Well then, I'd better just shut the eff up and go die because my 5+ decades of boating experience is totally outdated and worthless in your opinion, right? 
Just out of curiosity, please tell me about all the technological advances to composting toilets in the last few years that might make them a more suitable alternative to the standard marine toilet.
By the way, over the last six years of sailing in the eastern Caribbean, we have not met one single cruising boat that has mentioned having a composting toilet aboard. Not one! When we cruisers get together at happy hour each evening, we often discuss our boats and the equipment aboard. One would think if someone had a composting toilet, they would mention whether they were happy with it or not, at some point.*


----------



## Deina (Aug 28, 2017)

capta said:


> Deina said:
> 
> 
> > You're the one making the premise that you've "heard nothing but bad things about them from those who have tried to cruise with them" and that "there have been numerous complaints on several open forums including this one, about the composting heads."
> ...


*
Grasp at all the straw you like, but the fact is that you can't support your statement.

How often does the subject of marine heads of any kind come up during your happy hours? Any at all? Must be some stimulating discussion!*


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

From the looks of all the new floating condo amenities on virtually every new hull being sold these days, I don't see stirring one's own poop into the composting media becoming a big trend. Sorry. Folks are trending away from dirty stuff. Snowflakes is a valid criticism, but it's a reality.

They'll continue to work for some, but they aren't going to become mainstream. They are the exception choice. I rarely go aboard someone's boat that I don't get a quick tour. To Out's point above, I can't recall ever seeing one installed aboard. It's only been rumor. Just had my latest tour of a Niagra 35 last night. Traditional head.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

capta said:


> I didn't say sailnet had any such thing.
> Those folks threw their composting heads in the garbage. I'm sure you could go to the dump and try to find them, but it's been some months since I read about the last one going, so it might take some digging.


I smell BS. Composted or not.

I still like the beer can and match approach. It's very "circle of life". Otherwise, I just pump it overboard.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Here's the actual data on who's using what, at least over at CF:










Would love to conduct the same survey here. Too bad SN doesn't have a poll option.

I think an easy argument can be made that millennials, who appreciate simplicity and inexpensive options, as well as they appear to be more environmentally conscious, will gravitate to composting heads. I stand by my prediction that we will see their usage grow for long-term cruisers.

(BTW, I don't think composting heads are necessarily more environmentally friendly).


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> I can't recall ever seeing one installed aboard. It's only been rumor.


I think you may have just hit the nail square on the head (pun intended?) with this comment. Perhaps the whole composting head push is another alternative facts, fake news thing. We can see the pictures of them, just like the inauguration day crowds, but they really are not there. It's just another joke on us sailors perpetuated by some guy with a fake tan who thinks us fools. And by repeatedly discussing these rumored toilets, we prove him right.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Mike-

How are most folks disposing of their desiccated toilet waste? Bag, bleach and dumpster or other means?
Do most people pour the liquid waste overboard?


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Ajax_MD said:


> Mike-
> 
> How are most folks disposing of their desiccated toilet waste? Bag, bleach and dumpster or other means?
> Do most people pour the liquid waste overboard?


I don't know how the proportions break down Ajax. It will depend on where people are, and what's available. I guess the options range from the local dumpster, to land dumping, to over-the-side when out to sea.

For most of my cruising I've been able to dump off the beaten path in a forested area. I've also dumped overboard when offshore, but have also used a dumpster. I tend to cruise in more remote areas, although the last couple of seasons I was in a dense populated area.

When we're off the dock, either at anchor or underway, we pour the urine over the side. If we're at a dock near land facilities we usually take it to the shore toilet.


----------



## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

We lately decided to look into the switch to a composting head. One of the major reasons is for more independence when we're out sailing on the coast of Maine. 

More and more of this coast is becoming 0-Discharge. We don't have to go into any docks for a few weeks with our boat(ample tankage). The one exception, the holding tank. 

Then the head packed up at the end of our last cruise. That's a nasty chore,...And it's time to install new hoses(10 years old) and probably a new head. 

During that nasty job I got to thinking about what it would be like to; rip the head out, all the hoses-fittings-clamps, then the holding tank that takes up an entire hamper/locker in the head. 

It didn't take long to find Maine friends who are using composting toilets to give us some of their experience. One couple has been mostly living on the their 40' overseas for 5 years with one(Natures Way I think). 

The other couple switched last season. They sail the way we do- long weekends and one or two extended vacation cruise (2-3wks). They went with the simpler C-Head. Sounds like this would be a good choice for our boat. Both the users said the super simple C-Head is the best for sailors that don't liveaboard. 

I'm getting great info from both of them - the good and the bad. 

So far, the good is very good! 

The bad,...nothing as bad as some of my experiences over decades of heads and holding tanks. I think I can handle the downsides of a composting toilet. All in all, it sounds simpler which goes with our simple coastal cruiser. 

The worst part lately is pushing the limits legal discharge in NE coastal waters. 

I've done some online research and of the people I've 'read', someone was taking one out. The rest of actual users have all said they would never go back to a holding tank.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> We lately decided to look into the switch to a composting head. One of the major reasons is for more independence when we're out sailing on the coast of Maine.
> 
> More and more of this coast is becoming 0-Discharge. We don't have to go into any docks for a few weeks with our boat(ample tankage). The one exception, the holding tank.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good plan to me Tom. The responses you're getting from actual users is much more in line with what is typical.

Sounds like you're getting good info, but don't be shy to ask questions (of people who actually use these heads). There are a lot more users than some suggest. I've never used the C-head, but users seem to love them. I prefer the larger volumes of my Nature's Head, but I love the non-proprietary approach CH takes toward their containers.

Our reason for switching was similar to yours:


Freedom to cruise as long as we wanted; not limited by holding tank space.
Recovery of a large amount of usable storage space; in the area that held our holding tank we now carry two inflatable kayaks, our spinnaker, plus a bunch of tools and supplies.
Simplicity; there's really not much that can go wrong. The worst case scenario is getting too much water in, and that is easy to deal with.
Safety; fewer holes in the boat to worry about.
Cost; never pay for another pump out.

A composter is not right for everyone, nor every setup. It also requires some effort to learn how to manage properly - just like any new boat system. But for smallish cruising boats with two to three crew that actually go places, they are the best head option. I'm sure you'll love it (if one can "love" a head).


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmm...here's another question:

Could a unit like a C-Head handle 5-6 people for 2 days and one night? I'm thinking of distance race scenarios on the Chesapeake. I rarely have crew but you never know...


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Depends on what you mean by "handle". I'm sure it will fit. In 48 hours of that kind of use, essentially nothing has composted, so you're just collecting raw poop mixed with composting media, then tossing it in the dumpster when you arrive. Handled?


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Ajax-
For temporary occasional use? We took a big mayonnaise jar on a J24 once. Scared the ladyfolk on the crew into holding their bladders all day, it did. Scared the menfolk too.(G)

But seriously. I learned a trick with invalid commodes (who wants a bedroom full of stink all night? who wants to call in aids to change it?) that works pretty damned well for all sorts of places and events.

Take a commode seat and bucket, or a five gallon pail. (Snap-on toilet seats available for those.) Now put in a plastic bag. Throw in a cup of plain clay kitty litter, or clumping kitter litter. $10 buys a two-gallon container of that.

OK, now place ANOTHER bag in the pail, right on top of the first one. Add a handle of kitty litter. Repeat until you've got maybe 6 bags layered in the pail. When someone uses the pail, they just pull up one bag, tie a knot in it, place it in a second pail with a lid.

Cheap, no moving parts, easy. If you want to be fancy, toss in some extra kitty litter when you have used a bag, you'll find you need much less than you'd think. It absorbs liquids very well, dries out the solids and traps any odor.

And for racers, yes, it is light weight.(G)

Total investment, $20 if you have to buy the toilet seat for the bucket?


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

And you have something to throw at your competitors.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Ajax_MD said:


> Hmm...here's another question:
> 
> Could a unit like a C-Head handle 5-6 people for 2 days and one night? I'm thinking of distance race scenarios on the Chesapeake. I rarely have crew but you never know...


I've not used a C-head, so can't say for sure. My experience with Nature's Heads is that five to six people is too much. But if it really is only for two days, one night, and you will let it sit for a week or so afterwards, (stirring occasionally), then it will probably be fine. You'll be emptying the pee jar probably twice a day (C-head uses a smaller jug).

These heads are designed for two, perhaps three people full time. You can definitely have more folks for short periods, but it's not ideal. I've had four adults for a week at a time. It works, but requires me to change out the system after saying goodbye to the guests. If I could let it sit for a week it would be OK, but my spouse and I are on here full time.


----------



## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

Ajax_MD said:


> Hmm...here's another question:
> 
> Could a unit like a C-Head handle 5-6 people for 2 days and one night? I'm thinking of distance race scenarios on the Chesapeake. I rarely have crew but you never know...


Not if they're drinking beer... 

Seriously, I think you'd be pushing your luck on the liquids side. The C-Head uses 1 gal. water/milk jugs for a urine tank. The up side: they're cheap, readily available and easy to use. I normally don't bother to wash and re-use them, especially in hot weather. I just buy jugs of water at a supermarket for $ .89, and use or dump the water. When a jug is full of urine I cap it, set it aside to be disposed of later, and pop a new one in.

The down side: you'd be surprised how fast even one person can fill a gallon jug, especially if they've been drinking. With that many people you'd have an overflow more sooner than later, unless you managed to train every single user to check the jug before and after going to the head. That wouldn't be a disaster, because C-Head bottoms are watertight and would contain the mess. But doing clean-up duty might take the sparkle out of an afternoon of sailing...

What I plan for my boat is to build a lidded compartment between the C-Head and a bulkhead, either beside or behind it. I'll size it to hold a line of four or five jugs, and just swap them out as I fill them. That should take care of me and one or two guests for a weekend...

While we're on the subject, you don't 'shovel out' a C-Head. You just lift the top and pull out the solids container, which is made from a 5 gal. bucket. Then you can either dump it into another container, or slip a large kitchen trash bag over it and turn it upside down. Like the urine jugs, it's a lot easier to empty than other composting heads I've looked at. But again like the urine jugs, the trade-off is that you do it more often.


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

You guys can't pee overboard?


----------



## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

aeventyr60 said:


> You guys can't pee overboard?


Depends on where you are, what time of day it is, and who's keeping you company. And do you realize how many overboard drowning victims are recovered with their flies open?


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

troy2000 said:


> Depends on where you are, what time of day it is, and who's keeping you company. And do you realize how many overboard drowning victims are recovered with their flies open?


The challenges you folks face....just incredible. No wonder the Navy ships are in trouble. When in doubt, whip it out.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Ok, let me offer several clarifications-

1. I don't live aboard.
2. The "5 weekend race crew" scenario would be very rare. Most of the time, it would be just me or spousal unit and me.
3. I understand how a C-head works, I know we pee into a milk jug. We can dump that out as many times as required. We can also pee over the rail or into cockpit drains, especially at night or if there's any distance between us and our competitors.

After the weekend event, the waste would be able to sit in the toilet and desiccate for a considerable time or I can dispose of it properly using other methods. I can swap buckets and bring the "race bucket" home to let it do its work, for example.

All I want to know is- Can 5 people **** in a 5 gallon bucket full of peat moss for a weekend without it going overfull.
Assuming 1 deuce per person, per day, it sounds like it would be close.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

aeventyr60 said:


> The challenges you folks face....just incredible. No wonder the Navy ships are in trouble. When in doubt, whip it out.


I sail/race near Annapolis, which is filled with families and sensitive snowflakes who have never seen a pen!s before. You can't just whip it out when the boat behind you has a crew of Ma, Pa and the children crewing.

Gotta put some separation in your traffic scheme or wait for sunset first.


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^You guys must sail pretty close together...and those that follow have 20/18 vision. Or is it you just have huge hands?


----------



## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

Ajax_MD said:


> ...All I want to know is- Can 5 people **** in a 5 gallon bucket full of peat moss for a weekend without it going overfull.


Yes.


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

troy2000 said:


> Yes.


Not sure I'd like to be the last guy on that weekend to use that bog...

Funny thoughts from a lifetime ago on the Colorado river here:

https://www.outsideonline.com/1892656/they-call-me-groover-boy


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Ajax_MD said:


> ...All I want to know is- Can 5 people **** in a 5 gallon bucket full of peat moss for a weekend without it going overfull.
> Assuming 1 deuce per person, per day, it sounds like it would be close.


Of course you can. One thought though; you might consider setting up a exterior vent with a fan like Nature's and Air Head uses. My understanding of CH is that this is not normally necessary or suggested. But with that kind of short-term load I think you might get odours (which is normally not the case).

Add enough peat and it will just smell like peat.


----------



## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Ajax_MD said:


> Hmm...here's another question:
> 
> Could a unit like a C-Head handle 5-6 people for 2 days and one night? I'm thinking of distance race scenarios on the Chesapeake. I rarely have crew but you never know...


My first thought was, my holding tank couldn't cope. About 20 gallons, the liquid waste is the problem. And it's the flush water more than anything, but unless we were near a pump out(which we never are), people would have to go overboard.


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Mike said something which is quite honest and speaks to how boats are used. "It's not for everyone ". Personally think composting heads make sense but you need to think it through. Personally think if you have visitors or voyage composting heads have human waste retained in the boat and require you physically remove it from the boat. They have a system to divert urine from feces.
Although gentlemen sit to pee when it's bumpy and you're on a tack when the head is on the leeward side I would think the separation may not be complete leading to the peat being saturated prematurely. I would wish to know if this occurs. Many here have had occasion when the main problem in evacuating is just staying on the throne even with your legs extended against the door or wall. Using a hand to direct flow is not an option.
Although it's usually just the two in a sailing couple often it's a bunch as visitors come down for a weeks vacation. With the partying, drinking and good rich food that head seems to be always occupied. When that week is spent at a remote dive/snorkeling spot you want to keep the water pristine. Taking the dinghy in to dump pee/poop during Xmas winds/kite season seems to be a chore I would wish to avoid with a good chop running. With 4-6 adults on the boat think it would be a every few day chore. 
I'm ignorant of languages. We do not have a car on board or even folding bikes. I have trouble understanding the locals even on "English" speaking islands. Can't imagine restocking head supplies on Spanish or French speaking islands. Know from Mike's reports on prior threads they are commonly available. Question is where? Storage space is alway limited on a boat. Most people reach "if it comes on something goes off" quite rapidly. Option of carrying 7-8 m of peat doesn't seem viable.
As much as I hate the traditional head/holding tank find it much easier to sail outside the three mile limit when in New England or just leave the y valve to open discharge when on passage or most times in when in Caribbean. With the water so clear you can see even someone's monster poop dissipates to invisible a few feet from the boat. 
We have two heads. Both are used when it's more than just the two of us. Can't imagine walking the length of the boat to dump the forward one in any kind of seaway. In fact usually make crew eat in the cockpit to keep the boat clean unless its cold or raining.


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I can try and answer your questions OB as best I can based on my experience.

_Leeward urine flowing wrong/hard to use in bouncy seas:_ It's never been a problem for our head. Our's is oriented bow-stern, some off the centre line of our boat. Our head room is comfortable, but not huge, and there are good hand and foot holds (our boat is designed as a good sea boat). The hardest thing for me when using the head in bouncy conditions is just getting my pants down - especially if I'm into full foulies.

I'm sure some arrangements are worse than others. Speaks to the need to plan things properly - much like any boat system.

_Volumes: _Like I've said, these heads really are designed for two, perhaps three people full time. They can be used with larger numbers for short periods, but the more people, the shorter the time. I've done four adults for a week, and that's about the limit I would want to do. Beyond that it would require actual effort&#8230;

_Material: _We use coir (compressed coconut husk). I can easily carry six to eight months of material in the volume of a normal pail. I buy mine via Amazon, in bulk bags, but coir (and peat) is pretty easy to find at most gardening stores.

_Logistics:_ Walking to the cockpit with your urine bucket or bag of desiccated earthy material&#8230; up to you if that's too hard to do. Our urine bottles are sealed containers. When I change the main holding tank I simply tip it into a plastic garbage bag in the head room. I find it no big deal to carry this bag or jug aft. Not dirty, not yucky and not harder than carrying a 2 gallon bottle of water or a bag of garbage.

Like I say, they're not for everyone. If you regularly have more than two adults on board for long periods, they're probably not a good choice. If you are able to dump directly overboard without environmental concern, and have enough holding capacity to manage when in low-flow areas, then there's no reason to have one. And if you are squeamish about your outflows, then they're probably not for you.

I like to cruise in out-of-the-way places, and especially enjoy finding small remote anchorages where I can stay for long periods of time. I find it ethically questionable to crap up some of these areas with my crap. Our composter means we are never limited by holding tank volume. We can stay till the food or water runs out, or winter arrives.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've had 5 women on the boat one day and they filled my 32 gallon holding tank in six hours. I would hate to see what they would do with a composting head! 

As for peeing in a crowd of other boats, that's why I carry a plastic urinal in the cockpit. No one in another boat is going to see anything unless they are using a sniper spotter scope. And, no, I'm not going to make it as a porn star.  Not enough hardware! 

Searched the web as much as possible and apparently, Destroilet no longer makes the diesel model, but the propane model may be available. I will call them on Monday and post the information. Not everything can be found on the Internet.

Gary


----------



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> I've had 5 women on the boat one day and they filled my 32 gallon holding tank in six hours. I would hate to see what they would do with a composting head!


This kinda highlights one of the problems, or negatives, of standard marine heads. It's not the volume of feces/urine that fills your holding tank. It's all the water that is used to flush this stuff away. Marine composters work by seperating urine from feces, and use no water. So the holding tank space needed is a lot smaller.

Your harum wouldn't have come close to filling the main holding tank, but you'd likely have been emptying the pee bucket a couple of times that day (more if it's a beer day  ).

I'll be interested in what you find about the incinerator Gary. I really liked the idea, but I only ever looked at the electric heater versions, and they were way too much power for my little boat. Propane might make sense if they don't use too much gas.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Gary-
https://www.inspectapedia.com/septic/Incinerating_Toilet_Guide.php

Who knew?! So many choices besides Incinolet!


----------



## sesmith (Jan 24, 2013)

Ajax_MD said:


> Ok, let me offer several clarifications-
> 
> All I want to know is- Can 5 people **** in a 5 gallon bucket full of peat moss for a weekend without it going overfull.
> Assuming 1 deuce per person, per day, it sounds like it would be close.


No problem. We have a C-head. With 2 of us on board, we go at least a week before I dump the contents of the c-head into the second 5 gal pail which is t-d into the vent hose for the c-head. We could go at least a month without dealing with dumping anything. The 5 gal bucket will hold at least 3 dumps of the c-head.

2 of us fill a gallon urine jug once per day. I carry 3 on board, alternate, and reuse them. I put a dribble of Thetford holding tank green stuff in the gallon jugs. Never any smell from them. We use coconut coir, not peat. No experience with peat, but the coir works great for us.

Smells...rarely any. I have a passive vent hose that goes to a pvc t that is screwed into our pump out fitting. The only time we have had any smells. 1) urine mixed with the solids. This can happen if the female in the family is new to using the composting head. It takes a little practice to keep them separate. Not a big deal though. You just dump the solids into the secondary holding bucket sooner than you planned. 2) we noticed some smell for the first time this summer in Maine. It was very cool, foggy, and very high humidity for a few days. Solution was just to add more coir to the mix, but normally there is never any smell. I think things just weren't drying as they normally do in the high humidity and cool weather. Active venting would help, in this instance.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I've only seen one "kneeling board", once, and can understand why guys don't commonly install them. But then again, I've never seen a urinal on a boat, and considering the number of guys on boats, and how easy it would be to plumb in...You know, it would cut a lot of fluid out of the holding tank. And the "flushless" models that use an oil trap instead seem to work pretty darn well.


----------

