# Boater Missing on ICW



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Yesterday afternoon I heard a strange call from SV Dream Catcher on the VHF to the Coast Guard. He said he was heading south on the ICW just a bit north of Coinjock (mile 50) NC and had just been run into by another sailboat heading north...and there seemed to be no one aboard and the engine was running and a sail was up. Dream Catcher did not stop but was proceding to Coinjock with minor damage.

I asked myself "How in the hell do you get run into by another sailboat on the ICW? " and I still have no answer to that one....BUT..after a few hours a BoatUS boat arrived on the scene and found the larger boat (A Beneteau 47) aground with engine running and sail up. From the enclosed story...sometime between 1:00 and 2:30 yesterday afternoon, the owner went overboard in the narrow, calm and shallow waters of the ICW. The search continues this morning. 
*Beez and others out there singlehanding...please "buckle up" whenever you are out there alone...regardless of the conditions. *

*Coast Guard Searching for Missing Boater*

Posted By John on January 6th, 2008 
PORTSMOUTH, Va. - The Coast Guard is searching for a missing boater after two sailboats collided in the Intracoastal Waterway near Elizabeth City, N.C., today.
Missing is John Martins of Suffolk, Va.
The 33-foot sailboat Dreamcatcher with two people onboard was struck by the 47-foot sailboat Marissa during transit in the I.C.W., at approximately 2:30 p.m. After the collision, the Marissa continued on course without stopping. The owner/operator of the Dreamcatcher notified the Coast Guard that there was no indication of anyone on the Marissa at the time of the collision. The Marissa was later located at 3 p.m. in a marsh by Tow Boat U.S. There was no one present in or around the vessel, but the motor was running and the sails were up. In addition, a wallet belonging to Martins was found.
Martins last spoke to his wife via telephone at approximately 1 p.m. today.
A MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter crew from Air Station Elizabeth City, and a 21-foot boat crew from Station Elizabeth City are searching.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks for the post Cam... and you're right.. staying on the boat is definitely a good thing if you're singlehanding... so use your tether and harness.  

Hey Hoffa, are ya listening...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Or at least wear a working PFD so they can find the body


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Perhaps a sticky on the proper use of a tether and harness, may be in order.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

We were out in Tull's Bay and heard the call. Started about 1:30pm Sun. The collision occured (supposedly) at marker 89, we saw the boat grounded in the marsh around Hog island at approximately marker 73. We stayed out til dark to assist with the search, but no one turned up. Not looking good, water temp was 39*, entire area surrounded by marsh.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, most boats don't have jacklines run, and without jacklines and the proper hardpoints, like padeyes, a harness and tether are pretty useless.


Freesail99 said:


> Perhaps a sticky on the proper use of a tether and harness, may be in order.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I sincerely hope they find him, its a fellow sailor.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unless the guy is dressed in a drysuit with lots of fleece on inside it, he's probably in a lot of trouble with water temps as low as they are.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Because of the shape of my boat (rectangle) vs a mono (pointy at one end or both) I can run a line dead center fore and aft, and another across the cockpit with a 6 ft long tether and never, ever fall off the boat.

I've often wondered how you manage not reach everywhere on a mono and not have a tether than could potentially put you in the drink dragging along beside your boat. I've seen diagrams and remain unconvinced of the basic safety of it.

My previous comments on not wearing a tether because I wear a PFD are based on when and where I sail solo - warm water, busy Chesapeake Bay - cell phone in a zippy in my pocket. Might not be the best answer, but it's one I can live with.
Unfortunately with 39 degree water we've probably lost this sailor, even with a PFD he had minutes to get out and start warming up.


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

chucklesR said:


> I've often wondered how you manage not reach everywhere on a mono and not have a tether than could potentially put you in the drink dragging along beside your boat. I've seen diagrams and remain unconvinced of the basic safety of it.


The primary purpose of a tether system is to keep you with your boat (the logic being that it's better than the alternative), not to keep you on your boat.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Screw that - being dragged along alongside your boat in 39 degrees of water with 2 broken ribs and a dislocated shoulder (not unlikely when tumbling across at 45 degrees) 
All that so I can drown/freeze slowly as opposed to within minutes?

You've got to make it so you can't fall off otherwise it's no good.


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

Yes, I'd like to be in that situation with a chance rather than watching my boat sail quietly away 3 knots faster than I can swim...

And when you're working on a headsail at the bow of a monohull, even a 6 foot line will be too long. As I said, this is the primary purpose; of course you'd like to stay on the boat whenever possible.

I get what you're saying, and we can disagree - I apologize to the thread police in advance for hijacking.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sad story with little chance of a happy ending. I agree, you need to be kept on the boat, not dragging alongside. On my boat I couldn't get back on board myself without the swim ladder down which is never when sailing.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

The right jackline, a little effort in attachment points, double tether, lifelines and careful movement on the deck and you can greatly increase the odds to near zero that you will go over the side. 
pigslo


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

John...My impression was that with 2 kids and a wife aboard and some boat damage and NO response from the boat that hit him...he just wanted to get out of there and let the Coast Guard do its' work. Listening to the conversation, it seems he was shook up and very worried. 
As of this moment the CG is still broadcasting pan-pans and the guy is still missing. Doesn't look good unfortunately.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

You know, I may be new to the whole captain thing, but I think that I would have felt it to be my responsibility to do a little more than motor away.
Does anyone know what the law says about this kind of thing?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Missing*

John Martins is the fellow missing and is a co-worker of mine. I am having a lot of trouble finding updates on him, so I came here. Please post CG comments that are heard. I found out more about this accident in the past 3 minutes than I've been able to find since I heard about this yesterday.
Sincerely


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pink...will do...no further news...just that he is presumed to have gone overboard and was wearing yellow foulies and all boaters in the area are asked to keep a sharp lookout. Will post anything new right here or you can leave your e-mail address and I will contact you.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

EDIT: I took down my earlier post questioning why the boat that reported the incident did not mount a search, and discussing safety harnesses. A fellow sailor is still missing, so I don't feel this is the appropriate time to analyze the "what went wrong" scenarios.



camaraderie said:


> John...My impression was that with 2 kids and a wife aboard and some boat damage and NO response from the boat that hit him...he just wanted to get out of there and let the Coast Guard do its' work. Listening to the conversation, it seems he was shook up and very worried.


Cam, Somehow I missed those details and as someone who sails with a boatload of kids I can certainly understand the shock, fear and adrenaline rush that would have occurred after such a collision. I'd like to think I could collect myself and come up with a plan, but I wasn't in his shoes. Proving once again the perils of second guessing and Monday morning QB-ing.



pinkpussycat1031 said:


> John Martins is the fellow missing and is a co-worker of mine. I am having a lot of trouble finding updates on him, so I came here. Please post CG comments that are heard. I found out more about this accident in the past 3 minutes than I've been able to find since I heard about this yesterday.
> Sincerely


PinkPussyCat,

As fellow sailors, our thoughts are with John Martins as well as his family and friends, and please be assured that we're all hoping for a happy outcome. Let's all try to stay positive as we wait to learn more.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boater Missing*

I thank you very much. my email address is pink ***** cat1031 at yahoo dot com (no spaces in the email, however, I couldn't post it on the reply). 
Any information you can provide is greatly appreciated. John LOVED sailing, and always took his cat. We will keep hoping for the best.
Thank you again,
Pink


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Although the other boat involved in the accident did NOT turn around, if Capt. John Martins was NOT onboard, it would work to his advantage to have the boat covering the "suspect" area from whence he came......

Let's hope he's found on "land" somewhere, God help him!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Pink, is your friend of "a certain age" or have pre-existing medical problems that would cause him to fall off a sailboat under power?

I ask only because in relatively sheltered waters it's hard to fall off accidently: the boat isn't moving that much.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

John is mid to late 30's, and no medical condition I am aware of which would cause him to fall. We have been trying to peice things together since we found out yesterday.


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## Gryzio (Dec 13, 2007)

This is sad and hard to believe.  

My first thought before reading everything was the man had a Heart Attack.  

But, from what "Pink" say he was fairly young. This is strange to hear. I hope he along shore or made it to help and there not been an update.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think he met his responsibilities, by reporting the boat and accident to the USCG. There is not much the person whose boat was hit could do beyond that, since they have no idea how long the boat has been uncrewed, or where the boat was left uncrewed.



johnhalf said:


> You know, I may be new to the whole captain thing, but I think that I would have felt it to be my responsibility to do a little more than motor away.
> Does anyone know what the law says about this kind of thing?


TEShannon-

You may want to consider rigging your swim ladder with some way of lowering it from the water just in case.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given his age and the conditions, I would say one possible cause might be that he fell overboard when the boat was rocked by a powerboat wake. I've seen that happen several times, but not on boats that were being singlehanded.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I to am thinking he may have fallen off the boat. He did in fact bring his cat, and I'm wondering if the cat fell, and John went in after it. His wife did say that the cat was missing too. I still am wishing for the best and hope they find him on land, and soon.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Coast Guard just cancelled the "pan-pan" be on the lookout message "pending further developments". To me this is an early cancellation of the search and I am guessing that it does not mean good news. Sorry to report this.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given the temperature of the water, things aren't looking good...


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Based on initial collision location, it is likely that the skipper fell overboard fairly soon prior to collision. Just above Coinjock ICW is a very narrow channel, either as actual Coinjock cut or in Coinjock bay. Even with autopilot on and following a GPS course boat without human watching it would run out of the channel and aground in a matter of minutes. The fact that boat was still in the channel and moving suggests that it was manned very recently. My 5 cents.

Sad story in any case.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here is the latest news article I could find - doesn't look like the boat hit had a family on it - was 2 men. 

Monday, January 07, 2008

U.S. Coast Guard officials will determine at sunset today whether to continue the search for a Virginia boater missing since his sailboat collided with another vessel off the coast of Currituck County Sunday afternoon.

John Martins, 40, of Suffolk, Va., was reported missing shortly after his boat, the Marissa, collided with the sailboat Dream Catcher on the North Landing River about 2:30 p.m. Sunday.

According to Coast Guard officials, the Marissa, with its motor running and sails raised, struck the Dream Catcher on the river, about one mile southwest of Knotts Island, and continued on course. The boat was later found abandoned, run aground in a marsh at the mouth of Tulls Bay.

Petty Officer Richard Hynson, of the Coast Guard's Atlantic Area Command Center, said two men aboard the Dream Catcher told authorities they did not see anyone on board the Marissa at the time of the collision. The Dream Catcher was not damaged in the incident, Hynson said.

Martins' cell phone and wallet were found on the Marissa, Hynson said. Shortly before 2 p.m. on Sunday - less than an hour before the collision - Martins spoke with his wife by cell phone and indicated that he was on his sailboat, Hynson said.

Sea conditions on the North Landing River Sunday were good and visibility was "excellent," Hynson said.

He said a Coast Guard helicopter and a rescue boat based at Elizabeth City searched for Martins Sunday night and into Monday afternoon. North Carolina Wildlife Resources officials and the Currituck County Sheriff's Office also assisted with the search.

Officials don't know if Martins had survival gear such as a life preserver, Hynson said.

Martins' boat, the Marissa, was towed by a commercial salvage company to Coinjock Marina, where it remained moored Monday afternoon. The Dream Catcher also was docked at the marina Monday afternoon.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sounded like family on board Dream Catcher on the Coast Guard end of the VHF conversation...asking for all passengers to put on PFD's several times. Maybe there were two men + others...or I was just mis-hearing the one sided conversation. No matter...I think they were shook up and anxious to get to Coinjock but they fulfilled their legal requirements. I would be interested to hear their explanation of how they could be hit by Marissa if they were keeping a good watch...but it is quite narrow in places so perhaps they just assumed they were going to get a close pass from a vessel under control.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I take my "analysis" back - area south of Knotts Island is pretty wide and deep, in fact this was one place where I've seen people sailing across (and along) ICW. Anything can happen there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you all for your continued information. I did find out this morning that the sheriff's department and a Wildlife organization are still searching. Please post any new information you may have here. We are still hoping for good news, however, with water temperatures, etc. we are prepared for the worst. I have been in contact with the ICO for Curritick County, and I will update here as I find more info.
Thank you again.
Shannon


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Meeting 'legal' requirements is one thing, but there is also the spirit of the thing. 
With another person on my boat, I'd have tossed a line on the Marissa, gotten aboard, shut it down, dropped anchor and rafted up then search the other boat for signs of what's going on and in the process found the cell phone, called the last number dialed - found out it was less than a hour prior and dropped my dinghy to go searching for him. It was on the ICW, how far could that have been for goodness sake?

Maybe later I'd have claimed salvage rights to Marissa, maybe not.

Hindsight being 20/20 claims aside that's the right and reasonable thing to do.

Bump, whine and run is not.


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

Chuckles
I agree with your point up to the part where we don't know how damaged either boat was. It's a judgment call on whether one's own boat in such a situation is safe to stay out there searching or is in danger of becoming a second problem for the CG. If 'it wasn't too bad' (tricky to define, no?) then staying to help search would be (as you said) the 'right and reasonable thing'.

Hope it turns out well,
Mike


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Minor or no damage per the report.


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

Oops, sorry Charlie! (sorry about that, too!) And me on the perpetual soapbox about reading comprehension.... Commencing to eat crow, now.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> Meeting 'legal' requirements is one thing, but there is also the spirit of the thing.
> With another person on my boat, I'd have tossed a line on the Marissa, gotten aboard, shut it down, dropped anchor and rafted up then search the other boat for signs of what's going on and in the process found the cell phone, called the last number dialed - found out it was less than a hour prior and dropped my dinghy to go searching for him. It was on the ICW, how far could that have been for goodness sake?
> 
> Maybe later I'd have claimed salvage rights to Marissa, maybe not.
> ...


I agree 100% and that is what I would do in my home waters.
Here in Europe we are not not that much afraid of lawyers, but in US I would first call CG and only then touch the other boat - I wou8ld be afraid afraid of being accused of trespassing, stealing, . . .


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There was very minor damage. The Marissa was sailed back to it's home by a fellow co-worker of ours, as for the Dream Catcher, it had very minor damage. I too agree that regardless of legal issues, I think I would try to look for a missing boater - it's the person / people who count in the long run......Just my thought. Knowing I helped save a life or assisted is far more life changing than dealing with legal issues... 

I guess my question is how did the Dream Catcher be hit by another boat? Could they not see it coming in it's path in time to move?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

We'd all be second guessing, if the Marissa overtook from behind on the ICW it might be no one was looking behind (you have right of way over any boat passing from behind), if it was a narrow passage the DC might have expected a turn from Marissa and could not move out of it's way - heck Dream Catcher could have been at anchor for all we know.


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## jimmytc (Aug 30, 2004)

*Tether*

Why would you NOT want to stay ON the boat rather than WITH it ?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> Meeting 'legal' requirements is one thing, but there is also the spirit of the thing.
> With another person on my boat, I'd have tossed a line on the Marissa, gotten aboard, shut it down, dropped anchor and rafted up then search the other boat ...


Hard to judge if that was the 'right' thing to do. Many variables come along in chasing down a boat powered up and in gear and with sails up. I don't think I'd be trying that trick unless the boat was moving at only 2 or 3 knots and in dead calm water. That's just me. If the two boats 'met' in a passing situation, then proceeding on would have brought them closer to the position where the guy went overboard. Turning around would take you away from the person in the water.

Lots of second guessing can be done on many fronts.
Pray the guy turns up on an island OK.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Currituck County Sheriff's Department and surrounding counties have now focused the search 6 miles south of the Coinjock Bridge. Due to the weather and his Naval experience is leading search teams to believe he is alive and on one of the nearby islands.
Is there another name for the Coinjock Bridge as I cannot find it on the Satalite Feed? Or what part of the water way would the Coinjock Bridge crossover?
Thank you,
Shannon


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## Gryzio (Dec 13, 2007)

*This best I can do for something quick.*



pinkpussycat1031 said:


> The Currituck County Sheriff's Department and surrounding counties have now focused the search 6 miles south of the Coinjock Bridge. Due to the weather and his Naval experience is leading search teams to believe he is alive and on one of the nearby islands.
> Is there another name for the Coinjock Bridge as I cannot find it on the Satalite Feed? Or what part of the water way would the Coinjock Bridge crossover?
> Thank you,
> Shannon


I hope the Mapquest link work;
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?city=Coinjock&state=NC&country=us

Maybe Wright Memorial Bridge (Hwy. 158) if you scroll down from Coinjock, just left click and drag the map. On left you can zoom in/out.

This is optimistic to hear. I am hoping and praying he made it to shore.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes, this is perfect.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

The Coinjock Bridge is a 65' fixed bridge crossing over the ICW. It is located at:

36 degs 20.5 mins North 75 degs 57 mins West

At that spot, the ICW runs through the North Carolina Cut in a NE/SW direction. To the SW, it joins the upper reaches of the North River which becomes very windy, until it broadens out. 

I'm afraid "6 miles below the Coinjock Bridge" isn't very specific, unless they're talking about actual distance through the water and around all those turns.

On second thought, they might be talking about ICW mile markers. The bridge is at ICW mile marker 50. Mile marker 56 would be still in the windy recesses of the North River, very near the flashing green buoy #149 at 36 des 15 mins North 76 degs 57 mins West. This is adjacent to Buck Island and Goose Pond Marsh on the south side.

Bill


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

xort said:


> Hard to judge if that was the 'right' thing to do.


Absolutely. We don't know what the skills of the sailors aboard the damaged boat were or if the children or women aboard were frightened or what other factors were involved. But there are always lots of armchair quaterbacks and internet toughguys who would've sprung into decisive action if they had been there.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

I have no idea what I would have done if I had been there. I could easily have done far worse than Dream Catcher, like fallen overboard. I assume that Dream Catcher's skipper has a lot more experience than I do, because almost all skippers have more experience than I do.

But I would like to consider what I should do if a situation arose such as that.
I don't think that using these opportunities to consider how you would react is a bad thing. 

When you are driving on the highway in heavy traffic and a car blows a tire and flips end over end into the woods on the shoulder, would you stop? What if your wife was with you? What if your kids were with you? You could be the differenced between someone living or dying, is traumatizing your kids worth it?

Lets consider, what if Mr. Martins was incapacitated, loss of blood, heart attack, stroke, and still on board. Dream Catcher didn't know if that was the case or not. Would scaring the family be such a price to pay to save him?

Let me emphasize that I quite possibly would have done much worse than Dream Catcher.
What I want to understand is what should I have done in that situation. As a former firefighter I know that I don't want to become another victim in need of rescue. As a husband and father I am not going to kill myself doing something stupid either. 

I still hope beyond hope that he will be found alive.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Johnhalf-

One of the big differences between two boats colliding and two cars colliding on the highway—the car will very likely have someone in it. In the case of two boats colliding, if there is no one aboard one of the boats, there is no easy way to tell how long the boat has been unoccupied, since a boat under sail or power can go a long, long way under autopilot. 

There was no one on the second boat, and since their boat was damaged, and the families may have been quite traumatized by the collision, it was his choice to leave the other boat to the authorities.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

I know SD, and in hindsight they probably did the right thing, but all they knew at the time was no one on deck, would you have assumed no one onboard? If it was you and a friend and you could board without danger, both of which are probably NOT the case here, would you have boarded?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Johnhalf-

A lot of it would depend on how badly damaged the boat was. Generally, in a collision, if anyone were aboard, don't you think they'd come up on deck to see what they hit at a minimum??? Also, don't you think they called out to the other boat to see if anyone were aboard???

One possible scenario that I could see where going aboard would have been important is if there were someone aboard the other boat that was down below and injured or ill.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

Exactly my point
"Lets consider, what if Mr. Martins was incapacitated, loss of blood, heart attack, stroke, and still on board. Dream Catcher didn't know if that was the case or not. Would scaring the family be such a price to pay to save him?" 
from my post above.

Thanks for the help SD, and no that is not sarcasm. For some reason this story bothers me more than usual.
John


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

johnhalf said:


> When you are driving on the highway in heavy traffic and a car blows a tire and flips end over end into the woods on the shoulder, would you stop? What if your wife was with you? What if your kids were with you? You could be the differenced between someone living or dying, is traumatizing your kids worth it?


Big difference between stopping on the road to help an accident victim and boarding a moving vessel from another moving vessel. One requires getting out of your car and the other a substantial amount of seamanship. In a perfect world a sailor renders aid to another in need. But this ain't a perfect world and again, we have no clue what the situation was on either boat.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

Hi Fast Bottoms, OK forget the analogy, how would you answer the question posed above?


johnhalf said:


> I know SD, and in hindsight they probably did the right thing, but all they knew at the time was no one on deck, would you have assumed no one onboard? If it was you and a friend and you could board without danger, both of which are probably NOT the case here, would you have boarded?


I'm not trying to give you any s..t, just trying to make sense of this.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Fstbttms has a very good point. If the boat was still moving, whether under power or sail, coming along side and boarding it would have been a fairly difficult task, especially for someone on a boat that has just gotten hit and is worried about the family they have aboard.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Considering difference in boat lengths (some 13 feet as far as I recall) and, hence, difference in cruising speed - I'd say pretty darn near impossible. They would not even be able to catch up with it.



sailingdog said:


> Fstbttms has a very good point. If the boat was still moving, whether under power or sail, coming along side and boarding it would have been a fairly difficult task, especially for someone on a boat that has just gotten hit and is worried about the family they have aboard.


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## johnhalf (Jul 15, 2006)

Hey SD, Maybe, maybe not, as has already been said we don't really know. We don't now how fast they were going. Whether they had family OB. How shaken up they were. etc... etc... So lets say you and a friend, minor damage, easy to board, no one on deck, hypothetically, would you board in case the operator needed immediate assistance, or would you call it in and move on?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, depending on the designs of the boats, the freeboard differences can be pretty significant too—possibly making it very difficult to board the other boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unless I had some indication that there was someone aboard in need of assistance, I would just call it in. If I hailed the vessel and no one responded, and there were no signs of anyone aboard in distress, then I wouldn't try to come alongside or board the boat. Attempting to board another boat could easily result in more problems than just calling it in-falling in, getting injured getting aboard, etc. 


johnhalf said:


> Hey SD, Maybe, maybe not, as has already been said we don't really know. We don't now how fast they were going. Whether they had family OB. How shaken up they were. etc... etc... So lets say you and a friend, minor damage, easy to board, no one on deck, hypothetically, would you board in case the operator needed immediate assistance, or would you call it in and move on?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I drove over that bridge and saw the boat at a distance today. Will be heading back that way tomorrow PM and will try to get a photo or two. 
There is a strong current that flows past Coinjock but the accident took place north of Coinjock and apparently the search area is now south of there. I am thinking that the are guessing there is a body and it has washed well downstream. Sad tale.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Keep us posted Cam...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There is nothing in these posts that says there will be a good outcome. Time for a prayer.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

johnhalf said:


> Hi Fast Bottoms, OK forget the analogy, how would you answer the question posed above?
> I'm not trying to give you any s..t, just trying to make sense of this.


In the scenario you pose, I would probably try and board and see if anybody needed help or at least stop the runaway boat.


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Missing Sailor*

I not sure this will offer any more hope, but both the Elizabeth City Coast Guard station and the Duck Pier Marine Bouy indicate that the water temperature is (and has been) 50 deg. F not 39. That might translate into an hour or more survival time in the water. Unless the water back up in that creek is substantially colder.

Our prayers and best wishes go out to the missing sailor and family.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I spoke with the ICO for Currituck county this evening, and they are still calling the search a "search" so to me, we still have hope that John will be found. Please continue to keep him in your prayers.

The Marissa had almost no damage (FYI) and was sailed back to it's home yesterday. Neither boat was damaged other than cosmetically (if this info helps).


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## NewToSailing (Jan 9, 2008)

One reason someone may just call to the CG rather than board the vessel is Foul Play. If I was on the ICW in good conditions and a nice boat was unmanned with no indication of what is going on inside and I had my family I would have to consider my family's safely first. There could have been a robbery or some other problem with the no gooders on board. 

The better parallel is you are driving and see someone stuck with a broken car in a remote area. You may stop to help if it is just you but my wife would point out that I would be risking my children if they were in the car and I wanted to stop. In that case I would call the Police. Sad times we live in but even in an inland lake like Lake Norman things can happen..


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Putting aside my chuckles persona:

Just my background I guess (Navy) but I lean towards 'render all POSSIBLE assistance' even if it puts me in peril. 

I'd have boarded, somehow - via launched dinghy, alongside, whatever. 
I'd have gotten on that boat somehow.

Having had both heart attacks and strokes I KNOW I would help any apparently incapitated boat, anywhere, any conditions, irregardless of my own safety. My Crew (spouse) agrees. It's what WE do.

Do unto others, irregardless of religion that's always what you do.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

John was former NAVY, which is why we have hope. ChucklesR, what type of survival skills did you take with you from your Naval experience?

Search should have commenced at 9:30 this morning, is anyone in NC that could confirm? I put a call in to the Currituck County ICO but he has not returned my call this morning. I know they intensified the search for today - any new info is greatly appreciated!
Thanks


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chuckles--

If I were there, I probably would have done gone aboard if I could do so safely. There isn't any point in trying to do this and getting yourself into trouble and making the situation worse all around.



chucklesR said:


> Putting aside my chuckles persona:
> 
> Just my background I guess (Navy) but I lean towards 'render all POSSIBLE assistance' even if it puts me in peril.
> 
> ...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

PPC - 
I don't mean to be negative, just realistic:
First and only skill the Navy teaches is not to fall overboard. All the other stuff they dedicate to 10 minutes worth of lecture and one swim test which MOST fail. Things like using clothing as a float (catch air in the cloth etc..) doesn't work in frigid water, youhave to keep it ALL on to stay warm. His only hope was to get out of the water fast and get dry fast. Depending on temp and his conditioning he had minutes, not hours.

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia
a good link - water temp reported earlier was i believe 34 degrees, he had 15 minutes or less which seems like a long time until you factor in disorientation.

If he simply fell, his likely reaction was 1) chase the boat, 2) realize he'd never catch it and then look for shore other boats, 3) Already worn and cold - try to make it to shore. At some point if wearing foulies he may have tried to shed them (sea boots etc). to swim better or act as floatation but that would have been last ditch and about the last act.

We practiced enough MOB drills to get our operational ratings up, no one really believed they would ever be recovered after a 'non-drill' unobserved trip and fall.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chuckles-

Water temp according to one of the other posts was reported at about 50˚F, so a bit more time than you've projected, but not much.



chucklesR said:


> PPC -
> I don't mean to be negative, just realistic:
> First and only skill the Navy teaches is not to fall overboard. All the other stuff they dedicate to 10 minutes worth of lecture and one swim test which MOST fail. Things like using clothing as a float (catch air in the cloth etc..) doesn't work in frigid water, youhave to keep it ALL on to stay warm. His only hope was to get out of the water fast and get dry fast. Depending on temp and his conditioning he had minutes, not hours.
> 
> ...


And this is why sailors in days gone by often didn't even know how to swim... knowing how to swim would just prolong the inevitable.


> We practiced enough MOB drills to get our operational ratings up, no one really believed they would ever be recovered after a 'non-drill' unobserved trip and fall.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I figured as much (the training) - I guess the search teams are trying to keep hope alive until it turns into "recovery" - 

Do you know if they are still searching around the area south of the Coinjock bridge? I can't seem to reach anyone today, which is making me think something has been discovered (and not in a good way).


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

PPC
Try next of kin, as a co-worker you might be able to contact them.

If Pan-Pan's aren't be issued anymore there's news in the silence.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> Putting aside my chuckles persona:
> 
> Just my background I guess (Navy) but I lean towards 'render all POSSIBLE assistance' even if it puts me in peril.
> 
> ...


I agree with you wholeheartedly, but if you've had heart attacks and strokes, wouldn't you attempting to board a moving, unmanned boat be like a hemophiliac running into the knife shop? If you could somehow deploy fenders and lash them to your boat (if possible!), it might be better than an activity that could land yourself into cold water...which might create even more problems.

I do sympathize, however: a few years back we listened on the VHF as an 8 year old and a 10 year old sailed a 35 footer back toward shore when their father had a heart attack a few miles off Toronto. They were obviously scared, but they were just knowledgeable enough to contribute to the solution by calling for help, giving a course and position and by getting the boat in the right direction at six knots, shorting the time the cops had to work the speedboat and the radar considerably. I certainly looked for the boat at the time, but it was a few miles off for an intercept.

As far as I know, the guy survived.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente said:


> I agree with you wholeheartedly, but if you've had heart attacks and strokes, wouldn't you attempting to board a moving, unmanned boat be like a hemophiliac running into the knife shop? If you could somehow deploy fenders and lash them to your boat (if possible!), it might be better than an activity that could land yourself into cold water...which might create even more problems.


As I said, you've really got to be careful not to make a bad situation worse.



> I do sympathize, however: a few years back we listened on the VHF as an 8 year old and a 10 year old sailed a 35 footer back toward shore when their father had a heart attack a few miles off Toronto. They were obviously scared, but they were just knowledgeable enough to contribute to the solution by calling for help, giving a course and position and by getting the boat in the right direction at six knots, shorting the time the cops had to work the speedboat and the radar considerably. I certainly looked for the boat at the time, but it was a few miles off for an intercept.
> 
> As far as I know, the guy survived.


A good reason to keep plain old Aspirin aboard any boat. It is a lifesaver in many cases of heart attack and stroke.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

OK...as I said last night, I dropped by Coinjock Marina around lunchtime today to get a look at Marissa. She is still there...as is Dream Catcher, the boat she hit, and I was also able to talk to one of the guys on DreamCatcher for a few minutes. I snapped a few pix of both boats but here is what I found out.

1. The search continues but it is NOT south of Coinjock (which didn't make sense to me) but rather a few miles NORTH of Coinjock where the accident took place near marker 85 for those of you that have charts.

2. The Marissa hit Dream Catcher's port stern quarter with her bow. There was little to no damage to Marissa...but a substantial chunk taken out of DC's rail. Dream Catcher is a Cape Dory33 which you know is a low freeboard boat. Marissa has so much higher freeboard that the anchor on the bow nearly hit the captain of DC seated at the pedestal while the stern quarter was being hit.

3. DC's captain advised me that they saw Marissa coming at them from a distance but that the boat was zig zagging in the marked ICW channel apparently under auto pilot control, so DC actually pulled out of the channel by 100' or so to try to avoid the other boat which is WAYYYY bigger and was moving under power. In passing, the big boat veered right at them and it was all they could do to avoid being cut in half. They were just thankful that they were not killed and that the boat damage can be fixed.

Based on what I saw and was told, I don't know that any of us could have done any better folks. It is kinda like driving down a 2 lane road and seeing a truck coming at you veering all over the road...then pulling over to the shoulder and still getting hit! I also don't think there is any way they could have gone off chasing the other boat down given the size and speed differences, the shoals and the erratic steering of the Marissa. Calling it in and asking for help was the right thing to do. We will continue to hope for the captain of the Marissa. 
Here's the pix:







This is the Bow of the Marissa...you can see minor damage about a foot above the bootstripe. Otherwise the boat is pristine.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ok, John was apparently sailing from Camden to Great Bridge, VA - where did the Coast Guard report the collision occured? Was it actually IN the ICW?


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Cam - what sounds odd to me is that, if Marissa was on autopilot, why was she zig-zagging around? (Same question if she was not on autopilot)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CAM I think I'm going to stick with the info you have and what the Currituck County ICO tells me - apparently I'm receiving incorrect info from our group in NC. We were told that John's boat was sailed back on Monday afternoon! Thanks for updating and going down there to check things out.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks for the update Cam. I can see why the crew of the Dream Catcher didn't want to try and come alongside the Marissa. 

Idiens—

If she was on autopilot and connected to a GPS and running a route under power, that would explain why she was zig-zagging. Most modern autopilot units can run a track or route on a GPS if they're connected properly.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> ... If she was on autopilot and connected to a GPS and running a route under power, that would explain why she was zig-zagging. Most modern autopilot units can run a track or route on a GPS if they're connected properly.


If the waypoints are in a zig zag, yes. But would he have layed a waypoint outside the channel (where the impact occurred)?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Idiens said:


> If the waypoints are in a zig zag, yes. But would he have layed a waypoint outside the channel (where the impact occurred)?


Sure, if the boat had already passed the last waypoint, it might end up going in a straight line, since the GPS would end the track/route, and then the autopilot would likely revert to compass course as its mode of operation. A lot depends on the specific GPS and autopilot in question.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pink...you re most welcome...just wish I had some GOOD news. As to your question...Dream Catcher reported the accident at marker 85 north of coinjock. As I understand it, Marrissa was found aground FURTHER north at around marker 79 which is about 12 miles north of Coinjock. I don't know whether you will be able to see this link without some software, but it is the chart of the ICW in this area. Just look for the area that has a purple slash line that sales "Mile 40" and that is about where the accident took place: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/12206.shtml

Idiens...my interpertation of the zig-zigging is that since the mainsail was up...the auto pilot could simply have been correcting for the way the mainsail was taking the boat...falling off course...then correcting or over-correcting and falling back again. I suppose we'll never know. You can see the dog-legs on the chart and I doubt that the boat was "programmed" to channel waypoints...that is just stupid in this patch of water which I have been through many times. Rather...I think he just set it on a heading freeing himself up to do something else for a minute...and he went over at that point.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

this link is great! Thank you -


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Idiens said:


> If the waypoints are in a zig zag, yes. But would he have layed a waypoint outside the channel (where the impact occurred)?


Depending on level of autopilot response, it keeps to the given course more or less precisely. When my autopilot is set to lower response level, even if the course is a straight line, it will only correct back to the course when cross track error (or error in heading) becomes large enough. In practice that means, that boat will zig-zag, as it is being pushed to one side of the course, corrects, goes back, usually overcorrects to the over side, comes back etc. So, thats one way this could easily happen.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Cam,

Your info really helps in trying to decipher this mystery.

Apparently, the Marissa was headed North on the ICW, and was on autopilot with the sails up and no one aboard. 

If the collision with Dream Catcher occurred near Green Marker #85 (3629N 7600W), and the Marissa was later found aground "near" Fl G "79" (3630N 7600.5W), that is consistent with a boat being put on autopilot near Green #99 (3627N 7557.9W) just after the turn to port. If the autopilot had been set to take the boat to marker #87 (course of 325M range 2.44nm) and had not been subsequently touched, that would indeed take the boat just to the west of marker #85 where, reportedly, the collision occurred, and it would then carry on to wind up in shallow water to the west of Fl G #79....say around 3630N 7601.7W. 

If these assumptions are correct, it would suggest that the owner/captain left the boat somewhere between Marker #99 where he set the autopilot, and marker #85 where the collision occured.

Unfortunately, this assumption puts him about 1.3 to 1.5 miles from water shallow enough to stand in. Presumably, had he fallen off and been still conscious, he would have made for land to the west, since that is much the closest.

Fingers crossed. It's still possible this outcome won't be what we all fear.

Bill


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Good analysis Bill!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just curious, what have air temperatures been like down there?? 

I know from an earlier post the water temps on the day he went missing were about 50˚F. If he was dressed properly, and had a PFD on, survival time in water that temperature isn't all that short. The amount of time he would have stayed conscious in 50˚ water ranges from about 30 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on his build, age, what he was wearing, etc.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Carrituck, NC - Air Temperatures

*Jan 7 Monday*
Mean Temperature 56 °F / 14 °C 
Max Temperature 69 °F / 21 °C 
Min Temperature 44 °F / 7 °C

*Jan 8 Tuesday*
Mean Temperature 60 °F / 16 °C 
Max Temperature 71 °F / 22 °C 
Min Temperature 50 °F / 10 °C

*Jan 9 Wednesday*
Mean Temperature 63 °F / 18 °C 
Max Temperature 71 °F / 22 °C 
Min Temperature 55 °F / 13 °C

Not bad at all!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

New Article with a bit more info this AM:
 Evidence indicates a Suffolk boater missing since Sunday fell into the cold Currituck Sound fully clothed and without a life jacket, making his chances of survival difficult.
The search for John Claudio Martins, 40, continued late Wednesday in an area off the Currituck Sound between Bells Island and Knotts Island.
Authorities believe Martins set the automatic navigation system at a northwest turn in the Intracoastal Waterway between Bells Island and Knotts Island, Currituck County Sheriff Susan Johnson said Wednesday at a search staging area on Waterlily Road near Coinjock.
By the time Martins' 47-foot sailboat, the Marissa, was supposed to turn to the north about a mile-and-a-half farther, it was unmanned. It collided at 1:30 p.m. Sunday with another sailboat headed south.
The Marissa continued on a northwest course until it landed on the Tulls Creek shoreline, where it was found about 3 p.m. Sunday with a sail up and the motor still running, Johnson said.
A local fisherman saw Martins on his boat about noon Sunday in the Coinjock Canal, Johnson said. The fisherman noticed a ladder used for climbing into the boat from the water was in the up position and strapped. But when the boat was found, the ladder was down and the strap was broken, Johnson said.
"That's what he would have grabbed for is that ladder," Johnson said.
Martins intended to move his boat from a marina in Camden County to Great Bridge, where he was to meet his wife later Sunday, Johnson said.
The Coast Guard suspended its search for Martins on Monday night.
The local search operation has included boats from the Sheriff's Office, Currituck County Emergency Management, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, North Carolina Canine Emergency Response Team, Norfolk Police Department, and Hertford and Bertie counties. Plans are to continue the search today.
Martins was fit and an avid sailor, Johnson said. He also had a military background. (Virginia Pilot Online 1/10)

Note that the authorities explanation concurs precisely with Bill Trayfors estimation last night.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Wonder if he leaned back on the ladder (say leaning back to look up at his main) and the strap broke and that caused the fall. Used to hate the ladder on my Hunter 30 because there was no way to tie it securely enough to lean on when sitting at the helm, yet make it easy to disengage.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks for the update Cam...

I guess this is another example of why you have to use a tether and harness when single-handing, especially if you're in your own home waters.

We'll probably never know what caused Martins to fall overboard. It could have been a lot of things, an errant boat wake seems likely to me, since the conditions that are being described thus far don't point to adverse winds or seas. He was a bit on the young side for it to be a stroke or heart attack to cause him to go overboard.

Chuckles-

I don't think it was the ladder... look at the photo of the stern of the Marissa. I don't think you can really lean on this ladder the way you're describing, since the cockpit coaming is there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you all for your updates. Search is continuing this morning, which is a good thing. Hopefully he did make it to the shallow waters. Please continue to post your information, and thoughts - all is very helpful while we wait for news.
I appreciate all of your comments, assistance and posts, thank you again.
Pink


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If he did grab the ladder it would almost seem that he had to be on the swim platform. Not a good place to be if you're solo.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Can any of you confirm that the status has been changed to "recovery" as of this morning?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just spoke with Randall Edwards (ICO Currituck County). He did confirm that the search has been downgraded to recovery due to the amount of time missing. I do hope they find something so our team can have closure and so can Carol, John's wife. They have only 4 Sheriff's boats out today searching.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Pink,
It does sound like you should be preparing for the worst, just too much time has passed for there to be a real chance of a happy ending.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

A bit more info, and a few puzzling questions.

According to met records for Currituck, NC, wind direction all day was from the SSW. While very light during the morning hours, between 9 and 10AM it began to build. Wind speed reached about 12-15 mph average, with gusts to 20 mph, and remained at that level until about 4PM.

This is consistent with the boat having sail up, particularly as it made the NW turn at buoy #99. Wind would have been over the port quarter and brisk...say 15-18 knots. Around 1PM it fell to about 10 knots for 15 mins or so, then increased sharply around 1:30 to 1:45PM to around 15 knots with gusts to 22knots (25mph). This is around the time of the reported incident.

The gusts *might* account for the erratic track of the boat, but we can't know for sure. I'd think a 47-footer as well found as the Marissa would have a decent autopilot that could handle 15-22 knots fairly well, but who knows?

There's no mention of a dingy, and I couldn't tell from Cam's pix if there was one. Presumably, there was a dingy. Was he trailing a dingy? If so, where is it? Did he carry one on deck? If so, is it still there?

The owner and his cat, apparently, were not on the boat when the collision occured or later when the boat ran aground. If his cat had fallen overboard, I don't believe there's any way an experienced sailor like Martins would have jumped overboard without at least throttling down and releasing the autopilot. He would have known there would have been absolutely no way he could have caught the boat and the cat.

Nor is it likely, IMHO, that a passing wake would have knocked an experienced sailor off a 47-footer. Very unlikely.

If, indeed, Martins somehow lost his balance and fell overboard -- or, if he were knocked overboard by, e.g., the boom -- then how do we account for the missing cat?

Not wanting to see the dark side, and still hoping very much that this will turn out OK, I think there are some missing pieces here.

Bill


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Bill and Cam,

Thanks for all your interesting research, details, and analysis. While it is difficult to remain hopeful, if nothing else this has got us all thinking a bit more about safety issues.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

The missing cat could simply be that he was holding it in his arms when he went over.


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

Complete speculation, but what if the cat was in danger of falling overboard due to it being in a bad spot as some wake or whatever was coming, Martins went to retrieve (grab for?) the cat, and the next thing you know it both of them ended up in the water?

Too many things could have happened - there aren't really enough facts to put together any solid theories.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

From an earlier post (I cannot "quote" yet in my posts) it said a fisherman saw a ladder upright and strapped. Can any of you explain to me what that means? Is it a separate ladder than the one on the back of the boat? One that would be put over the side of the boat into the water? If that were the case, what would be some reasons the ladder would be in place?


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Pink,

They are referring to the ladder on the stern or rear of the boat, commonly refered to as a "swim ladder". It is kept folded up while underway, and generally only used for reboarding the boat from swimming. The fisherman reported the ladder was up when he saw the boat underway with John aboard. When the boat was found, the ladder was deployed down into the water. This suggests that John deployed it at some point. If he was on board, it would be a simple matter to fold it down. If he had already fallen in, it would take a mighty effort to get it down, and then another mighty effort to pull oneself up against the drag or force of water caused by the boat's forward motion. He may have succeeded at one but not the other.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I believe the fisherman was talking about the ladder on the transom, above the swim platform. If it was strapped in the upright position initially, and then seen in the deployed position later, it may mean that someone had pulled on it in an attempt to board the boat.


pinkpussycat1031 said:


> From an earlier post (I cannot "quote" yet in my posts) it said a fisherman saw a ladder upright and strapped. Can any of you explain to me what that means? Is it a separate ladder than the one on the back of the boat? One that would be put over the side of the boat into the water? If that were the case, what would be some reasons the ladder would be in place?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Note to all...the cat is and always has been safe at home. That was initial misinformation.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes, I think that came from an earlier post of mine - the original info (which is like most, was wrong). My group (more co-workers) in NC forwarding forwards, etc. smears up info. Why I stated yesterday I was going to stick to 2 sources. Here and the ICO!
How did you find out the cat was at home Cam?


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

It could be that he stepped on the transom platform to take a leak (a fairly pleasant experience in the right circumstances), perhaps stedying himself by holding one hand on the transom ladder. 
We did this quite often when sailing in Norway, even in some fairly rough conditions (actually it is better than going down below), but there was always more than one person aboard - this is clearly not the safest thing to do alone.


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## singlesoul (Jan 10, 2008)

To pinkpussycat1031 are you a friend of John's? I am. Yet you sound like and act like a reporter. Please do not try and contect me. I will say that in the 12 years that I have know him I have never heard him called John expect by reporters.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Pink...I have sources and now TWO of them have told me that John was never called John by any friends or co-workers. Do you wish to specify exactly who you are and what your connection to "John" is?? Otherwise, I think our conversation is at an end.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, a significant percentage of male COB victims are found with their flys unzipped, so this is very possible.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

singlesoul said:


> To pinkpussycat1031 are you a friend of John's? I am. Yet you sound like and act like a reporter. Please do not try and contect me. I will say that in the 12 years that I have know him I have never heard him called John expect by reporters.


Wow. I hope this is a case of inexact internet communication and not what it looks like on the face of it.

Its pretty crummy to think a reporter would elicit information and opinons without identifying their intentions except to uncover some sort of misconduct or illegallity. I can see nothing to be gained by such a masquerade in the face of a tragedy like this.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, reporters are sometimes known to do this. 



midlifesailor said:


> Wow. I hope this is a case of inexact internet communication and not what it looks like on the face of it.
> 
> Its pretty crummy to think a reporter would elicit information and opinons without identifying their intentions except to uncover some sort of misconduct or illegallity. I can see nothing to be gained by such a masquerade in the face of a tragedy like this.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Pink has been strangely quiet. I hope we were not taken advantage of, particularly given the amount of effort Cam put in to keep Pink informed. I think Pink's first post indicated he/she was a co-worker.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, that is the case. I believe this was their first post in this thread.



pinkpussycat1031 said:


> John Martins is the fellow missing and is a co-worker of mine. I am having a lot of trouble finding updates on him, so I came here. Please post CG comments that are heard. I found out more about this accident in the past 3 minutes than I've been able to find since I heard about this yesterday.
> Sincerely


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## jimmalkin (Jun 1, 2004)

I'm sure we've all been following this post, started by Cam, out of concern as the "one false step" is always in the back of sailor's minds. Pink presented him/herself as a co-worker desperate for news. I work in the publishing industry and any of our reporters/editors/journalists who misrepresented themselves to a source would be terminated from employment for violating ethical and professional standards. If this is/was the case, Pink's efforts were a pathetic, intrusive and slimey venture into our community.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cam

I appreciate the effort you put into keeping all of us informed of this situation. Given the latest developments with Pink, maybe you should verify his registration info, and if it turns out he is a reporter, report his unethical tactics.


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

Great work Cam, regardless. I continue to be impressed with your expertise and efforts.

I also continue to lower the standards I associate with people who clearly are looking out for their own best interests (if this is indeed the case). 

Unbelievable.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Pink's first post is pretty unambigious... he clearly states he's one of John's co-workers... If that turns out to not be the case, action should be taken.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

If Cam was duped by an reporter matters not. I for one, am sure had Cam not taken on the Yeoman's job the facts of this tragedy would never been correctly summited this forum. We all need to be grateful to Cam for his efforts. Rep point's to you Cam.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cam,
BTW, have you by any chance seen or heard reporting that looked a lot like your analysis of the event?


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## CalypsoP35 (Jul 24, 2006)

*Intrigue?*

Pink a reporter? No, she's the murderer checking to see if anyone has caught on to her scheme. (OK, I probably just crossed the line into bad taste. My apologies if you're offended.)

But, you can see where this slippery slope is headed.


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## JeffZissou (Dec 13, 2007)

This is my first post to this website, however I do spend lots of time on this site and find this site extremely useful and informative. I've been very impressed by the Sailnet community and quality of posts. I felt I had to weigh in on this situation since I used to work in the media and have many friends who still do. I wish I could say I'm shocked to see someone, in this case a possible reporter, pose as someone they are not for their own self serving interest. Unfortunately this is not uncommon these days. I've heard stories of reporters/media creating fake profiles on facebook to get close to victims without revealing their profession, creating blogs to solicit info and exposing it to the public, and much more. I guess it goes to show that you can't trust anyone these days. After following this story and reading the posts I really realized how tight knit the sailnet community is. Although we all may have been "dupped" by pink, I just wabted to post my opinion and, as a new member, let everone know how impressed I am with this site and Sailnet community and I look forward to becooming an active member soon.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Welcome aboard and you are now an active member, glad to have you here. It sure is starting to look like we've been taken advantage of and that's sad. I'd really like to know who did it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Welcome to Sailnet Jeff. I'd recommend you read this post, to help you get more out of your time on Sailnet.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Welcome aboard Jeff,
And thanks for the kind words.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

I was going to give Cam a rep point for his work on this thread, but it won't let me, some thing about Cam has too many already. I guess I'll have to spread some points around first.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am offended that you would think that I was a reporter. I am a co-worker and friend of Claudio's. (I used John Martins because it is easier when people are looking for information). Carol is his wife, we have numerous teammates trying to locate our friend and find out any information we can. Which is how the info I received was not always correct. My reason for being quiet has been that I have neglected my family and my job in hopes and working with other teammates to ease their loss. Claudio ran 2 facilities in our company, with numerous teammates, patients, etc. I took last night for my family and my co-workers. I again appologize if you think that I am a reporter, but I assure that it is not the case.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Pink. You should not be offended. It's simply a case of us looking out for each other; something you will appreciate if you hang around long enough here.

You can be assured that we all feel for the stress of the circumstances you all who know this person are under.

Best wishes, Fred


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am in my office and my teammates come to me for information - They are comforted in seeing the charts, your theories as boaters as we are in Virginia. Our Executives check in with me regularly to hear updates on your theories and information as you can imagine (by some of my posts) that a company with over 300 teammates in Virginia information can be miscommunicated from one teammate to another. We just wanted to find information for people who are established boaters, in the area, and have access to CG threads, etc. Any information be it good or bad is still something while we continue to wait for a resolution. As for the person who posted am I a friend of Claudio's, yes... I am. We have been working together on a company project and I spent some time with him right before the holiday break.
Again, I am sorry that you would think this of me.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Then what does John go by when at work etc? 

Anyway, if pink is a reporter, then hang her, if not, lets continue to help assuming she can verify which it appears she is trying to do as a co worker!

marty


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Pink-

I extend my condolences for you and your co-workers, as this must be pretty difficult for you all. No offense was intended, as sailnet is a community and looks to protect those who are here, and unfortunately, the media has earned its reputation for doing things in a less than forthright manner. I appreciate your openness regarding your relationship with the missing sailor. 

Regards,


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

All...thanks for your comments re: Pink. 
Thanks. Getting PFD/tether thinking going among our various single-handers was really my major purpose in starting the thread since this death was SO preventable. So hopefully the attention this thread has gotten will get a few folks to consider that. 
In addition to the "reporter" possibility, another member has mentioned "insurance adjuster" and it is also possible that "law enforcement" may be trying to find out more. There is only ONE newspaper article that resembles the detail found on this site and much of that detail is attributed to a Currituck County sherriff. Here's the article:http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/search-suffolk-boater-continue-amid-speculation

I've become a bit jaded in my role here and tend to be distrustful of newcomers to the forum until I am sure of their purpose and desire to truly become a member of the community having dealt with so many 'trolls". Bummer...as one of our primary goals here is to help folks that are new to sailing or simply like what they've seen as they lurked for a while before making their first post. So let me say to the newbies that we DO welcome you all to the site and to the community...but please understand if we sometimes come across a bit harsh initially as we have much cause for suspicion these days.

*EDIT...just saw PINK's response after I posted this and I accept the explanation. Edited my comments above accordingly. *


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

To those of you who may have missed my recent posts and to answer questions, please see my posts from pg. 13

I am offended that you would think that I was a reporter. I am a co-worker and friend of Claudio's. (I used John Martins because it is easier when people are looking for information). Carol is his wife, we have numerous teammates trying to locate our friend and find out any information we can. Which is how the info I received was not always correct. My reason for being quiet has been that I have neglected my family and my job in hopes and working with other teammates to ease their loss. Claudio ran 2 facilities in our company, with numerous teammates, patients, etc. I took last night for my family and my co-workers. I again appologize if you think that I am a reporter, but I assure that it is not the case

I am in my office and my teammates come to me for information - They are comforted in seeing the charts, your theories as boaters as we are in Virginia. Our Executives check in with me regularly to hear updates on your theories and information as you can imagine (by some of my posts) that a company with over 300 teammates in Virginia information can be miscommunicated from one teammate to another. We just wanted to find information for people who are established boaters, in the area, and have access to CG threads, etc. Any information be it good or bad is still something while we continue to wait for a resolution. As for the person who posted am I a friend of Claudio's, yes... I am. We have been working together on a company project and I spent some time with him right before the holiday break.
Again, I am sorry that you would think this of me.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Essentially, who cares if Pink is a reporter - would it truly have made a single difference in any of our posts?
Not mine.
How many aspiring writers are out there gathering stories to supplement research and personal experience so that they can write better fiction or non-fiction articles, cruising forums like this to gather anedotes etc..?

I don't care, neither should ya'll.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I guess I'm just too jaded but something in pink's recent responses is just not ringing right with me. I guess we need to extend the benefit of the doubt to pink. That being said the more important issue is what's the latest reports?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Cam:

Two pieces of info still missing: what about the dingy?

And, the article states the boat was found aground with the sails up and the motor still running. Question: was it in gear?

Bill


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Chuckles,
I do care if pink is actually a reporter but bs'd us about being a co-worker in order to get information. That kind of behavior is more suitable for a politician.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Blt2ski - he goes by Claudio at work. I can tell you what he looks like, the fact that he likes to ride motorcycles, (which is part of the company project we are working on). We work in dialysis, etc. What more can I give you? And yes, please continue to assist me with information. You can imagine the information being exchanged company wide. I was all excited to log in this morning, hoping to see some new theories, or information. Is there any as of this point?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Something else really bothers me about this "case".

From the reported point of collision near marker #85 to the farthest point where the boat would have definitely run aground is less than 2 nautical miles. The boat had to be moving at, say, 7 knots if the sails were up with a brisk quartering wind, with or without help from the engine.

That's 12 minutes time maximum. In that time, the smaller boat...if it proceeded on course....could not have been more than 3.5-4 miles away. He would have/should have seen the larger boat heading WAY out of the channel into very shallow water and, probably, going aground. 

While they may have been very shaken up due to the collision, they would have/should have known something was very amiss with the larger boat. In addition to calling the Coast Guard (good), I'd have thought they would have at least kept a sharp lookout and very likely stayed in the area. 

I know you only had a brief chat with one of the crew. Did you get the impression that they were complete novices? 

Bill


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Pink,

If you are who you say you are then accept our apology's and under stand that we look out for one another. But it does seem strange that you joined Sailnet on 1-7-08 and have only posted on this thread. If you joined only to get info for family and friends ok, there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this site. Good luck and I do hope they find John.


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## adewall (Oct 18, 2002)

I've been following this thread with great interest - having traversed this section of the ICW many times. It seems to me that if Dream Catcher was traveling TOWARD Coinjock, and John/Claudio had fallen off while Northbound, between Coinjock and the location of the collision, then the Southbound crew's best course would have been the one they were on, keeping a sharp lookout for a swimmer in the water. If they had stopped where the collision occured, there would have been no chance for a rescue in 39 degree water.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*Bill..*.I don't have any info on a dinghy. Nothing in any reports and no davits on the boat or chocks. The boat was new to him so this would not be unusual if he had his dinghy back home or had not yet gotten one. 
I have no data on the engine in gear but am assuming it WAS found in gear since it was in gear when it hit DreamCatcher and simply continued on and was found running with the autopilot on by the authorities. 
I am gonna have to re-look at the charts to understand what you are saying bout the actual collision but the Dream Catcher captain told me they had seen Marissa coming at them and pulled out of the channel proper to allow Marrissa room to pass. My sense was that they were only a few SECONDS outside the channel for a boat going 5-7 knots and had little time to react...they were worried about being cut in half by the larger boat. My sense is that they were NOT novices and were comfortable with their skills and their boat. Let's remember that a Cape Dory33 is a small, heavy and somewhat underpowered full keel boat that does not react instantaneously to a throttle and does not spin on a dime.

*Pink.*..other than the above speculation, there is no further news that we are sure of here today. I think we all await some news from the Sherriff's department or other authorities.


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## SailingTC (Jan 8, 2008)

I have been watching the local channels for updates and nothing so far. One small article on the local abc affiliate's website says the search is being scaled back to only Currituck Co. Sheriff's Department and the NC wildlife officials.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Appology accepted denby, I only post to this thread, because of the title. I read a little before registering to post and I did only join to get more insight from boaters. I think my first posting stated that I found more information in 3 minutes here, than I had all day - 
Yes, you can hear updates on the news, you can hear updates from those who hear updates, etc. But when you are sitting in an office, and just refreshing "google" all day - you sometimes need to reach out and be able to discuss - it does help the day go by. Since I know nothing really about sailing, it is nice to read your theories and why's or hows of things that could have happened, may have happened etc. I do also speak with Randall Edwards (ICO) the spokes person for Currituck County on a daily basis for updates. which in my post the other day, I stated I would rely on only 2 sources, here and the ICO. One of Claudio's teammates actually is the one that told me about the cat - and also that another teammate of ours had sailed the boat home, however, both have turned out to be incorrect............so, here I am.


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## Gryzio (Dec 13, 2007)

When I first started watching all this, I told my woman (Depending on where and when he fall off) that he may have made it to Cedar Bay. Just trying to be optimistic.

Last night, we talked about this and I feel he should have found or made it to help by now, if, he was able to walk for any distance.

I keep looking at the maps and charts thinking of various chances he could have made it to land (But, I would think he would have stayed along the shore line and not try to travel through the woods. Unless he had a reason.

I always find it hard to think a person did not make it until authorities/news says different.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Pink,
OK, I extend my apologies also. I believe you are who you say you are. As you've probably figured out by now this site has seen abuse in the past and so antennas are always up, sometimes incorrectly.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Randall Edwards told me yesterday that they did infact cut the rescue back and it had been changed to recovery - There were only 4 boats out yesterday searching. I'm not sure what information he can give me, but he did say that it was because of time that they changed it to "recovery" - again, another reason for my silence yesterday - it is not something we were hoping for.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

I hate to be the one to bring it up, but doesn't this call to mind the case of Phillip Merrill?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Question(s)... on the chart posted, I looked up the satalite image and there is a body of land that extends on the East and then another one on the West, could Claudio have actully swam to either of those bodies of land and made it with the water temperature as it was? Would he have had to shed his foulies too? Does anyone find it odd that the foulies have not turned up or wouldn't those assist in the search if he was in fact in the water and still wearing them?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I did not want to state that (philip merrill) however, theories have evolved regarding that suggestion. Or what if he didn't WANT to be found........ I just hate not knowing...


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## Gryzio (Dec 13, 2007)

pinkpussycat1031 said:


> Question(s)... on the chart posted, I looked up the satalite image and there is a body of land that extends on the East and then another one on the West, could Claudio have actully swam to either of those bodies of land and made it with the water temperature as it was? Would he have had to shed his foulies too? Does anyone find it odd that the foulies have not turned up or wouldn't those assist in the search if he was in fact in the water and still wearing them?


This is what I am talking about. It would depend a lot on how far away from the land he was. From the charts I think he would have been centered or a little closer to Cedar Bay/Point, if he was using the Autopilot.

I really think he may have been too far away, mainly because of possible water temps. But, I never want to think a person could not have made it either.

I just speculating trying to believe he is OK. Time now has the upper hand. 

I edit to say; "Troublesome Point" to be more in line with a chart and not a map.


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## LWinters (Nov 16, 2006)

I’ve just spent the last 45 minutes reading the thread in detail from the original post with extreme chills running up and down my spine. I am ashamed to say that I single-hand regularly and I can’t recall ever having used my harness and tether. This is odd considering I make it a point to set an example of tethering in offshore anytime when on deck with crew aboard. I try to make that an example to all aboard and require they tether in as well. Strange I would consider their safety more important than my own on my own vessel. The thought of informing a crew member’s family that I lost them is a nightmare scenario for me, but I’ve never considered the consequences of going overboard single handing until this story came to light.

My heart goes out to all those who know the lost sailor. If no other good comes out of this then I hope a few other sailors, single handing or not, will increase their level of safety underway.


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

I was a regular on this board several years ago. I still check in to read posts and catch up on those that I remember from the past.

I am also in NC so this thread has certainly been of interest to me. As sailors I think we are always seeking the "whys and what ifs" when something like this happens...and of course when it happens close to home waters then it captures your attention even more and won't let go.

I am glad that Pink appears to be who she says, but even if not there are many of us following this story, hoping for the best and still wanting updates. Thanks for giving us those. It is always sad to know of a family going through just what this sailors' family is dealing with. It is also sad to lose a fellow sailor even if you don't know him...the sea connects us as a family and we feel the loss no matter how distant.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Bill...I looked at the chart (http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/12206.shtml) again and you are right...it would have been at most a couple of miles before Marissa ran aground after the collision....and the Dream catcher WOULD have been headed south on the same course Marissa had come from towards marker #100. Our guestimates make the "man-overboard" occurring somewhere between marker #100 and marker #85 in which case Claudio swimming or a dinghy or a floating body could have been seen since the distance from #85 to #100 is about 2 miles. Before the accident, the Marissa would have been quite visible but anyone with the experience of trying to pick a buoy out of the water from a mile or so away knows that spotting a person in the water from that distance even if you are looking for it, is no sure thing. After the accident, I am guessing that Dream Catcher was much more concerned about their boat and watching where Marissa went and calling in to the Coast Guard...than calmly surveying the channel where Marissa had been. My impression from the one sided VHF calls, was that the initial speculation was that Claudio might be on board but disabled down below and that the immediate concern was to try to get a boat to the Marissa to inspect it rather than institute a man overboard search. 
I should also make clear that Dream Catcher may not have immediately left the scene...some time may have passed before she proceeded on to Coinjock but she did immediately call in the incident to the CG and could NOT risk going into the shoals to follow Marissa...especially since the vessel was much larger, in gear and not under control.

Midlife...I don't think that is useful speculation at this point.

Pink...thanks for the update from R. Edwards. You need to understand that the sudden immersion in 40 degree water is simply stunning to the human body even if one is conscious. The clothes become instantly sodden, drag you down to the bottom, thinking becomes muddled and it is impossible to swim in such clothing and getting it off may not be easy or possible in the time you have. I fell over in summer clothes in water about 10 degrees warmer than this and I am a big strong guy. It took every ounce of my strength just to climb back into my dinghy which was right next to me. I was exhausted and slept for several hours after getting dried off. Such is the nature of very cold water. The water there is a murkey brown and even with a mask and snorkle...you can't see your hand unless it is only a foot or so in front of your face. The bottom is squishy mud and debris is everywhere. Depths where we assume he went over are 6-8 feet for at least a 1/2 mile in any direction. If he had fallen over in the channel a mile or so back (ona completely different course)...he would have been able to walk to shore in 3ft of water. But let's also remember that we don't know why Claudio went overboard, he could have had a stroke or heart attack or hit his head on something and never had a chance. I am sorry to engage in some of this detail but hope it is helpful for you co-workers as you ask "why? how could this happen? what if?"


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

IIRC, he wasn't wearing a PFD. If that is in fact the case, I think it would be very difficult for him to make it to shore wearing foulies. The water temperatures were reported as about 50˚. Depending on his age, condition, etc, that means he would have had about 30-90 minutes before exhaustion set in.

IMHO, his chances of making shore are slim at best, depending on where he fell overboard. If he wasn't wearing a PFD, his chances are even slimmer still. Also, the cause of him falling overboard would factor into it. If he was knocked overboard by the boom, he could have been unconscious when he hit the water, and without a PFD would most likely have drowned in that situation. _This is the main reason I advocate automatic inflation PFDs over manual only inflation ones._

That said, unless he is found, chances are likely no one will ever know what really happened.



pinkpussycat1031 said:


> Question(s)... on the chart posted, I looked up the satalite image and there is a body of land that extends on the East and then another one on the West, could Claudio have actully swam to either of those bodies of land and made it with the water temperature as it was? Would he have had to shed his foulies too? Does anyone find it odd that the foulies have not turned up or wouldn't those assist in the search if he was in fact in the water and still wearing them?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Koko! Welcome back..good toi hear from you after so long!! You kinda disappeared with Surf!! (g)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I didn't think about the murky waters....
Yes, I guess that stroke or heart attack could have happened. Claudio is not a big guy - he's fit, but only about 5'8 and maybe 160.... is there a way to find out if a boat had a dinghy on it? Wouldn't the fisherman who reported seeing Claudio and the details about the ladder, remember seeing the dinghy or not seeing one?


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello,

First of all let me introduce myself. I´m John´s cousin from Portugal.
I´m looking everywhere to find recent news and i found this forum.
Can you tell me what happened to philip merrill?.

Thanks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello John's Cousin,
First I want to let you know that this site is VERY protective of it's members, as well they should be. As I know Claudio is Portugese, I will verify that fact.
Phil Merill is a "lost at sea" sailor, and an avenue I do not wish to consider. To find more information on him, I suggest google.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Once that I´m new here i can´t post my e-mail.
So i would like to ask to the friend´s of my cousin that have fresh information, to post your e-mail so i can contact you.

Thank you.

P.S. - sorry about my english


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You me email me at [email protected] I will assist you as those here have assisted me.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello pinkpussycat1031,

Thanks for the information.
I understand the fact that the site is very protective of it´s member´s and i agree to that.


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## jimmalkin (Jun 1, 2004)

JohnsCousins - You asked - this is unpleasant. According to the Washington Post, Philip Merrill was a suicide after a year of depression due to heart related health issues. He sailed off alone - his body was ultimately found with an anchor tied to his feet and an apparent shotgun blast to the head.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Johns Cousin,
When did you find out about Claudio? Did you read the postings within the threads, that will give you an update and the most recent information we have found, posted, etc. nothing new today - I do have a call in to the ICO, just waiting for an update on today's search


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Thanks Cam for the "welcome back"...I didn't realize that Surf was gone but that accounts for the much friendlier atmosphere that is back here. I had much rather see sailors helping and protecting each other than what he did to the spirit of this place. I shall try to stay tuned in more now.

As for the Phillip Merrill reference...let me just mention that it was stated that this was a new boat to Claudio...I can't imagine a sailor taking on a new boat if he was depressed enough to take "that route"...after all the day we take ownership of a new vessel is a most happy time.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Koko....good point. BTW...if you miss fight club...go on over to AFOC for a kinder gentler version!


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

No thanks...do not miss it at all...truly glad to hear that Surf is gone. Don't wish him ill but he was not a gracious sailor, man, or even person in my book. And no matter how you tried to deal with him (offend him or go along with the game) he only got more ridiculous.
Don't want to get this thread off topic but what is AFOC anyway?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Koko...here ya go...http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30337


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Koko-

Welcome back.. for more info on what AFOC is... see this thread.


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

LOL...oh, that place...I'm afraid to check it out too much...I might fit in!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... you'd be in good company if you do. 


kokopelli9 said:


> LOL...oh, that place...I'm afraid to check it out too much...I might fit in!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

As usual all things eventually come to an end, whether it be on good or bad terms.... I do not have any new information to post, obviously all that can be accomplished now is speculations (unfortunately) until he has been found. I do wish to thank you all who assisted me and kept me occupied in my time of needing to reach out and be informed and to those who accepted my appologies for sounding like a reporter, law enforcement, a politician (I do like that one though), etc. I will post anything new I find. I am not going to be very active on the site unless I have something important or factual to post.


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Pink,
Whatever the outcome, I wish all of you who know this sailor some healing from the ordeal of worrying and not knowing. And I also wish for some speedy closure to come. The not knowing is always the hardest part.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

thank you kokopelli for your last post.
the waiting is very cruel to us.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Pink and JohnsCousin,

My prayers are with you.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Unfortunately it is a risk we take.
Our love of the sea and water can be a turbulent relationship.
Often times our love for adventure and for the wind in our sails 
can and will put us in harms way.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of this sailor.


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## Digiital (Sep 10, 2001)

My heart goes out the John's family and hope that somehow is found his way to someplace safe. 

Also sorry to hear that a fellow Portuguese has had this misfortune.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Pink

As others have stated, your explanation clears up the misunderstanding, and my apologies to you.

Johnscousin and pink, and anyone else here who personally know John

My prayers are with you, John, and his family.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello,

Does anyone know anything new about the search of my cousin?

Thanks


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sorry...but no further news here today.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello Cam,

Do you live near, where the search is?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I am about 50 miles south but I have been through there numerous times and visited there earlier this week. I am searching all local news sources regularly for any updates but at this point, they are simply trying to find a body I am afraid.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Unfortunately the only thing that we can do is wait.
The time there is GMT-06:00?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Close...GMT-5...mid-afternoon here.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Nothing new on my end, I guess nothing new here either. 

JohnsCousin, were his parents coming in today?


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello Pink,

Nothing new from here too.
Yes, they are already there.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

hello everybody,

Cam, have you been there this weekend?
As far as i know there are some boats searching for anything they can find.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Johnscousin...No. I rarely head up that way so I won't be going back. It was nasty windy and rain here over the weekend so I'm sure not much was done. Better this morning... and I assume that they are trying to do dragging operations in that area before giving up the search. They cannot continue indefinitely but have not made any announcements. Perhaps Pink will have an update from the Sherrif's office later. All best...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

They are at this point searching for a body, apparently search was very limited yesterday. I have another call in for today and will update you as I receive information......


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Still no news????


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Mid...no official news for a week now. I am still monitoring daily and have the VHF on all day.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Missing Boater ICW*

Thanks for you updates..
Pink!


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## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

*Nothing?*

Nothing?...........


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Not a peep. Sorry.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

Just to say that my cousin has been found dead.
Thanks to all of you.

Bye.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

So very sorry to hear that.

Can you tell us exactly where he was found?

Thanks,

Bill


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Johnscousin, my prayers are with you and your family---


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Very sorry to hear this. I hope that your family now has some closure.


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## JohnsCousin (Jan 11, 2008)

I don´t know any details at this moment.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Johns,
Very sorry for your loss.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Johnscousin,

My deepest sympathies to you and your family.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The body was finally discovered; now there is closure; to friends and family so sorry for your loss


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

J_Cousin...Please accept my condolences. At least the family may be at peace now.

Here is what the news is saying:
John Claudio Martins was reported missing in early January. Tuesday the Currituck County Sheriff's Office announced that they've recovered his body in the Mackay Island Refuge area north of the Knotts Island Ferry Dock.
His body was recovered around noon Tuesday while flying around the area.
The body was transported to Twifords Funeral Home to the Medical Examiners Office located in Greenville, NC for routine autopsy purposes.
There was no indication of foul play and any other information related to the autopsy will be released at a further date.
****
Here is the area on the chart where his body as recovered. Only a couple of miles from the accident at most.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I am sorry for the loss of your cousin. Thank you for letting us know how things came out. You've been in our thoughts and prayers for some time now, and will continue to be.

I, for one, will be more diligent in making sure I am tethered to my boat when I am sailing alone. I trust that the rest of the Sailnet community will also learn from this tragedy and do likewise.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

saltygator said:


> WTF, you need old'Salty to come in here and smack you around?


This ain't about you, chief. You got some kinda balls comin' in here and talkin' sh*t about people who actually contribute to this forum. Take your six posts and sit down, meat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Crap, here we go again. A newbie who's going to tell us how to run the site!


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## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

*Power boater*

Maybe the missing man fell over board when a power boater came roaring by


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

To all the family,
You are indeed in our prayers.
From the beginning this story did not have a good outlook.
I am glad that you now have some closure to the situation and that you all now have the opportunity to lay this to rest.
The sailing community has lost one of it's own, and we are all saddened by this.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I couldn't say it any better than tj did.


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