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  #271  
Old 10-11-2010
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TES 28, Delphia 28, First 27.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaMC View Post
Ok, I will ask about one I have never seen before. This I saw in the trailerable thread. TES, of Poland, has a Canadian distributer and seems very cool.

TES Yacht Canada

Seems to be quite the freeboard, would be an interesting ride heeled over (coming from a total newbie on cruising boats) but would seem to be an ideal east coast US boat.

What are your thoughts on the manufacturer and the boat? There was a review on their site but all it talked about were the comforts, not at all about the sailing. Somehow this gives me pause. Anyone seen one of these in person?






This is an interesting boat in a sense that you can have in a 28ft boat an interior that normally you would only find on a 30ft. All the compromises in the boat design are on that direction, to make that interior possible. That ends up with a boat with a nice interior, but with a massif freeboard and a massive look. I guess that's why they don't talk on the brochure about sailing. Sailors that buy this boat are more interested on the interior amenities that in sailing performance.

I don't know what you mean by an "an ideal east coast US boat", but this seems to me as a boat to be used on protected waters.

I like more the other Polish boat, the Delphia 28 that has also a comfortable interior (even if not so BIG as the one from the Tes) and has certainly a better sailing performance. I find this one a more well proportioned and balanced boat.

This boat can come with a fixed keel or a centerboard. They advise that the version with fixed keel is the one that is recommended for "bluewater sailing" or by other words that the centerboard version is only recommended for protected or semi-protected waters.

Delphia 28













Personally I would prefer the First 27.7, a very interesting boat designed by the "Master", Mr. Finot. This is a very diferent boat, it has not the cruising amenities of the Tes, but it puts a smile on your face when you sail with it...and a sailing boat is for sailing. This is a very popular boat in Europe, it is much more faster and enjoyable boat to sail and also a much more seaworthy boat but also a more expensive boat.

This one is a trailerable boat, but it is not a centerboarder (no considerable weight on the Keel). It is a lifting keel boat. The keel has a bulb and in sailing condition (down) it has a draft of 2.15M.

The interior is more "light" but it has the essential for coastal cruising.

first277ang

First 27.7 S











Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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  #272  
Old 10-11-2010
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Paulo,
I've only been on a couple of Delphia's and that was maybe five years ago. The quality of the fitout was terribly disappointing. From the pics of the D28 though it appears they are very much improved. Nice little boat, as is the First. What fabulous things for daysailing (quick and easy to get under way, fun to sail) with the ability to overnight or weekend. Good stuff.

I have to say I am in agreement with Fast re the TES. Quality looks great , no doubt but they are not a pretty boat yet they could be if not for the obsession to sleep so many people.

Would any of you choose to sleep four on a 30'er ? On an overnight passage perhaps but not at anchor surely.
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  #273  
Old 10-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I don't know what you mean by an "an ideal east coast US boat", but this seems to me as a boat to be used on protected waters.

I like more the other Polish boat, the Delphia 28 that has also a comfortable interior (even if not so BIG as the one from the Tes) and has certainly a better sailing performance. I find this one a more well proportioned and balanced boat.

Personally I would prefer the First 27.7, a very interesting boat designed by the "Master", Mr. Finot.o
I sorta misspoke on the "East coast" part of that, what I was thinking was for moving in and out of shallow protected waters, rivers, etc and being able to use the ditch. Not for going off shore. Inland exploring.

That Delphia is very nice! But I agree on the First. The 27-31 versions are always at the top of our list of choices. We are considering a major increase to our budget to be able to get a used one as our "First" boat. Sorry, couldn't help the pun.
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  #274  
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Paulo's boats

Hey Andrews, there is a pilot house boat that I bet you don't know. It has a small "Room" with a view on the pilot house (with a pilot berth), and a large salon "inside" with a view through port hulls. It is a 46ft aluminum boat with a kind of classic look. What do you think about it?













Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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  #275  
Old 10-11-2010
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Paulo,
Nice boat!
Perhaps a Lyman-Morse?
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  #276  
Old 10-12-2010
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Nice try, but wrong
I'd have one in a flash Paolo. That is gobsmackingly lovely to my eyes. (if you need a translation for 'gobsmacking' let me know. ) In short I like what I see. Bit larger than I need or want but life is rarely perfect.

Nemier mentions Lyman Morse....Bob Perry designed a lovely boat for LM to build known as a Perry 45 or lyman Morse 45. It was to a large extent a modernised enlarged Valiant 42 with pilot house. Lovely boat and very similar to this one but no.




This also bears some resemblance to a Bestevaer/ Bestewind and our old favourite the Puffin but its not one of those. Has a bit of a Van de Stadt look to it but again I know of no VDS that matches. The bow is unlike any VDS.

I'm guessing though that it is a nothern European design, probably Dutch or thereabouts.
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  #277  
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post



























Regards

Paulo
I presume the First comes in both fixed and retractable keels ? Bit sneaky of Benny to use the retra keel in the exterior shots but the fixed for the inside, or am I missing something ? Certainly that interior seems to be missing a centreboard case.

More I look at the TES the less I like it. Man, that thing is just plain ugly.

Ref the Delphia, I'm afraid that window treatment loses me completely. Computer generated industrial design has a lot to answer for. Just because you can put stupid squiggles into your design does not make it a good idea.
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  #278  
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Paulo's boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I'd have one in a flash Paolo. That is gobsmackingly lovely to my eyes. (if you need a translation for 'gobsmacking' let me know. ) In short I like what I see. Bit larger than I need or want but life is rarely perfect.
....
I'm guessing though that it is a nothern European design, probably Dutch or thereabouts.
The boat I have posted would be lighter and would have a much bigger rig and sail plan. It would be incomparably faster than the one from Perry (that is a lovely design, but has much of a modern motor-sailor).

Well, you are half right about the Dutch designer, but most of the design is mine . Well, I have always designed the houses I have lived in, so why should I not design the boat I wanted?

That is pretty much the boat I wanted 6 or seven years ago. As I have design limitations on the technical parts of the boat (ruder design and assembly, keel fixation and hull structural design) I took a very seaworthy and sound old design by Dick Koopmans and have modified it. Different bow, different and larger stern, slightly longer hull and a bulbed keel, to have the same righting moment with a smaller ballast (lighter boat) and a much bigger waterline. The interior is all mine.

The drawings were shown to Mr. Koopmans that had agreed to alter his boat plans (for not too much money) to accommodate my drawings. I have looked for aluminum builders (the best places were Neederlands or South Africa) and it would cost (at that time) something a bit over 300 000 euros. But the business opportunities that would have made it possible never come true.

This is the original design:



Anyway a short time after finishing those designs, my idea of a perfect boat changed and I had made another design, also over an existing aluminum boat, from another Dutch designer, a more modern and faster boat, and less of a classic

But I was right, this is the kind of boat that you would like to have

By the way my memory was at fault, the boat that I have posted is a 45ft, not a 46fter (the second design was slightly bigger).

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  #279  
Old 10-12-2010
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First 27.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I presume the First comes in both fixed and retractable keels ? Bit sneaky of Benny to use the retra keel in the exterior shots but the fixed for the inside, or am I missing something ? Certainly that interior seems to be missing a centreboard case.
...
Ref the Delphia, I'm afraid that window treatment loses me completely. Computer generated industrial design has a lot to answer for. Just because you can put stupid squiggles into your design does not make it a good idea.
Yes you are right about the 27.7. This is the interior of the boat with the lifting keel:



That's a good interior design, but remember that with the keel up, that one goes till almost the "roof". That's for improving that inconvenient that some years after this design Finot designed the Pogo 10.50. Same concept but with a swinging keel, that has a much lesser impact on the interior.

Regarding the Delphia, I don't like particularly the look that they give to the boat line (outside) but regarding the inside I would like to reserve my judgement after seeing them on a real boat. Photos (with wide angles can distort reality)

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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Paulo,

Interesting that the element that made me think Dutch was the bow and it turns out that was designed by a Portuguese.

I had a chat (virtually speaking) with BP about the LM45 and he said that he'd have preferred a more modern underbody but that was what the client wanted. If you look at some of the boats that BP has designed in recent years they have a much more modern underwater shape.

I'm not wishing to start a US v the rest of world brouhaha but it seems that in the main they are a pretty conservative people in many ways.

Anywho, your design I like. Being picky I'd move the stove away from the bulhead and the f'ward cabin is not much more than a bed is it ? I'd move the accomodations aft, giving the space lost in the sail locker and quarter cabin to the f'wrd cabin. I don't need lavish guest accomodation so give me the space and cramp them up...hee hee.

btw......you have any pics of your houses ? I'd be interested to see what you do. Message me, I'll send you an email address.
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